Full of sound and fury/ Signifying, umm, what?
April 27, 2017 12:11 PM Subscribe
This weekend the Trump Administrations will mark 100 days in office, with little of substance, but plenty of activity and noise, often breaking (or seriously bending) Trump's own promises in the process. Lots of goalpost-moving in just the last 24 hours, so shall we wade in?
Let's start with the ACA repeal/replace. After (despite?) the colossal failure of TrumpCare, the administration sees passing ZombieTrumpCare as their Hail Mary for a legislative win. They’ve now made it cruel enough to win Freedom Caucus support, but now some moderates are unhappy and senators, who ultimately would have the say, are feeling queasy. A vote could come by this weekend, but Democrats seem willing to play chicken with the administration. Meanwhile, progressives are mobilizing for Round 2.
Then there’s tax reform, the other last-minute bid for achievement or distraction. Treasury Secretary and Mr. Moneybags Steve Mnuchin dangled a bright shiny plan they said would cut everyone’s taxes, but as it turns out, most most benefits go to people like him and Trump -- breaking Mnuchin's own promise on tax reform. One provision is eliminating the Alternative Minimum Tax, which changed Trump’s 2005 tax payment from 3.48 percent to 24 percent of his income, or less than the share a single taxpayer earning about $50,000 a year would pay.
Democrats are insisting that you can’t pass a tax plan without seeing how it benefits the President, and even some Republicans are saying deficits still matter, giving the proposal long odds of passing in its current form, if at all.
The NAFTA reversal and re-reversal happened at whiplash speed. We’ll withdraw from from it; no, we’ll modify it; er, ummm, we still could withdraw after all.
The wall, well, that's almost too easy. “I will build a great, great wall on our southern border and I’ll have Mexico pay for it.”
That is, “We’ll build it eventually, mostly, and someday they’ll pay, but for now, we need $20 billion.” (paraphrase)
Even Republican Congressmen are skeptical and supporters are disappoint.
Even without the wall, Trumplandia is apparently keeping Mexican citizens from crossing the border, possibly from fear as much as from any policies.
And that's where the successes are. The measure of the 100 days isn’t so much what Trump & Co. did, but what they un-did: disposing of rules limiting student debt, prohibiting the sale of internet browsing history data, requiring employers to keep accurate employee injury records, making coal companies keep waste out of rivers and streams and mandating energy companies report payments to foreign governments.
Team Trump may seem divided on that Chinese hoax, climate change. But fear not, at home, it's consistent in efforts to undo environmental protection. The administration took the first steps to rescind the designations of large, new national monuments. Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke, formerly a board member of an oil pipeline company, sees logging, mining and drilling as appropriate uses of those lands. The move has prompted the expected responses from Sierra Club, NRDC and others, and even a threat of a lawsuit from Patagonia.
Heard enough about domestic matters? How about international crises? As the lost carrier fleet is puffing out American chests off the waters of North Korea, that country’s propaganda team has literally put it (and the White House) in the crosshairs. Senators, summoned to the White House yesterday for a briefing on North Korea, gave the presentation bipartisan rave reviews, ranging from “OK” to “dog-and-pony show.” However, some said it sounded like an administration lacking a plan but determined to act.
We're almost there. With so many big, public stories, it would be easy to miss news of First Daughter and Special Advisor to the President Ivanka Trump’s plan to set up a private foundation, prompting comparisons to the Clinton Global Initiative and conservatives’ outrage over Hillary Clinton’s potential conflicts of interest. (thanks Metafilter!) Meanwhile, first Son-in-Law and Master of the Universe Jared Kushner had new potential ethical conflicts emerge.
And – breaking news, or it was when I started! – now Defense Department watchdogs are reportedly pulling at another end of the Russia ball of collusion yarn.
Whew. A tale told by an idiot. What will the next 100 days bring? Have at it.
Let's start with the ACA repeal/replace. After (despite?) the colossal failure of TrumpCare, the administration sees passing ZombieTrumpCare as their Hail Mary for a legislative win. They’ve now made it cruel enough to win Freedom Caucus support, but now some moderates are unhappy and senators, who ultimately would have the say, are feeling queasy. A vote could come by this weekend, but Democrats seem willing to play chicken with the administration. Meanwhile, progressives are mobilizing for Round 2.
Then there’s tax reform, the other last-minute bid for achievement or distraction. Treasury Secretary and Mr. Moneybags Steve Mnuchin dangled a bright shiny plan they said would cut everyone’s taxes, but as it turns out, most most benefits go to people like him and Trump -- breaking Mnuchin's own promise on tax reform. One provision is eliminating the Alternative Minimum Tax, which changed Trump’s 2005 tax payment from 3.48 percent to 24 percent of his income, or less than the share a single taxpayer earning about $50,000 a year would pay.
Democrats are insisting that you can’t pass a tax plan without seeing how it benefits the President, and even some Republicans are saying deficits still matter, giving the proposal long odds of passing in its current form, if at all.
The NAFTA reversal and re-reversal happened at whiplash speed. We’ll withdraw from from it; no, we’ll modify it; er, ummm, we still could withdraw after all.
The wall, well, that's almost too easy. “I will build a great, great wall on our southern border and I’ll have Mexico pay for it.”
That is, “We’ll build it eventually, mostly, and someday they’ll pay, but for now, we need $20 billion.” (paraphrase)
Even Republican Congressmen are skeptical and supporters are disappoint.
Even without the wall, Trumplandia is apparently keeping Mexican citizens from crossing the border, possibly from fear as much as from any policies.
And that's where the successes are. The measure of the 100 days isn’t so much what Trump & Co. did, but what they un-did: disposing of rules limiting student debt, prohibiting the sale of internet browsing history data, requiring employers to keep accurate employee injury records, making coal companies keep waste out of rivers and streams and mandating energy companies report payments to foreign governments.
Team Trump may seem divided on that Chinese hoax, climate change. But fear not, at home, it's consistent in efforts to undo environmental protection. The administration took the first steps to rescind the designations of large, new national monuments. Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke, formerly a board member of an oil pipeline company, sees logging, mining and drilling as appropriate uses of those lands. The move has prompted the expected responses from Sierra Club, NRDC and others, and even a threat of a lawsuit from Patagonia.
Heard enough about domestic matters? How about international crises? As the lost carrier fleet is puffing out American chests off the waters of North Korea, that country’s propaganda team has literally put it (and the White House) in the crosshairs. Senators, summoned to the White House yesterday for a briefing on North Korea, gave the presentation bipartisan rave reviews, ranging from “OK” to “dog-and-pony show.” However, some said it sounded like an administration lacking a plan but determined to act.
We're almost there. With so many big, public stories, it would be easy to miss news of First Daughter and Special Advisor to the President Ivanka Trump’s plan to set up a private foundation, prompting comparisons to the Clinton Global Initiative and conservatives’ outrage over Hillary Clinton’s potential conflicts of interest. (thanks Metafilter!) Meanwhile, first Son-in-Law and Master of the Universe Jared Kushner had new potential ethical conflicts emerge.
And – breaking news, or it was when I started! – now Defense Department watchdogs are reportedly pulling at another end of the Russia ball of collusion yarn.
Whew. A tale told by an idiot. What will the next 100 days bring? Have at it.
Tweet of the day for me, so just leaving this here since it seems on topic:
Congratulations to Donald Trump on his debut album on No Limit Records.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:17 PM on April 27, 2017 [19 favorites]
Congratulations to Donald Trump on his debut album on No Limit Records.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:17 PM on April 27, 2017 [19 favorites]
A documentary from the BBC World Service: “Me And The President”
posted by Going To Maine at 12:18 PM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Joe Borelli is a New York City councilman who spoke on behalf of Donald Trump during the presidential campaign - he was thrilled when Trump won the election last November, and approached the Trump presidency with high expectations. Over the first 100 days of the Trump Administration Joe recorded his impressions of the new President, starting with a visit to the Inauguration in Washington on 20th January. As the weeks went by with controversy about the executive order travel ban and the battle in the courts, the Presidential well received address to Congress, and through the twitter storms prompted by Donald Trump’s tweets about the intelligence agencies and President Obama, Joe recorded his observations.It’s worth noting here that Borelli was born in 1982, so qualifies as a milleniold.
posted by Going To Maine at 12:18 PM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
The truly depressing part is that the one time he got the respect and adulation he craves is when he launched a bunch of cruise missiles. According the media, that was 'acting presidential'.
So, look forward to more of that, I guess.
posted by lumpenprole at 12:19 PM on April 27, 2017 [10 favorites]
So, look forward to more of that, I guess.
posted by lumpenprole at 12:19 PM on April 27, 2017 [10 favorites]
What will the next 100 days bring?
Whatever your opinion of the man, you do have to hold a sort of grudging admiration for a man who, every morning upon waking and hearing incredulous comments of "he can't possibly bring the office any lower," EVERY SINGLE DAY responds with "Hold my spray-tanner."
posted by Mayor West at 12:19 PM on April 27, 2017 [74 favorites]
Whatever your opinion of the man, you do have to hold a sort of grudging admiration for a man who, every morning upon waking and hearing incredulous comments of "he can't possibly bring the office any lower," EVERY SINGLE DAY responds with "Hold my spray-tanner."
posted by Mayor West at 12:19 PM on April 27, 2017 [74 favorites]
(Also, as Borelli recently retweeted a positive description of himself as “Trump on steriods”, you shouldn’t be listening to the doc expecting a twist ending.)
posted by Going To Maine at 12:20 PM on April 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 12:20 PM on April 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Just to get this in at the top of the new thread, right this minute is a perfect time to call your rep, especially if you're represented by a Republican, and ask them to oppose the zombie AHCA. Folks are making up their minds now and the calls can make a big difference. Look up the number, make a two minute call, help save millions of people's healthcare.
posted by zachlipton at 12:20 PM on April 27, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:20 PM on April 27, 2017 [28 favorites]
The longest 100 days of my life. Is the light at the end of the tunnel a trash fire?
posted by prefpara at 12:21 PM on April 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by prefpara at 12:21 PM on April 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
let's all send the president a dartboard - he's got a LOT of decisions to make
posted by pyramid termite at 12:24 PM on April 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 12:24 PM on April 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Seeing one of these threads with less than a thousand comments feels liminal. Like hearing distant drums across the savanna.
posted by Mayor West at 12:25 PM on April 27, 2017 [39 favorites]
posted by Mayor West at 12:25 PM on April 27, 2017 [39 favorites]
Update on the Texas Show Me Your Papers bill just passed:
-children not exempt
-domestic violence shelters not exempt
-homeless shelters not exempt
-churches are exempt
-there will be lawsuits about its Constitutionality
-lots of local law enforcement: "this is a bad idea"
-cant' find the link, but saw a Tweet earlier indicating that El Paso and Houston are both defiant about assisting with this
Re the tax plan, corb asked me for a cite at end of the last thread what middle class families will lose--I've seen more than one analysis that says the cuts we get will be wiped out by the increase in other expenses, but of course, since this is basically an Underpants Gnome-level tax plan, it's hard to be sure what the heck they will do! Really I can just refer you to Krugman's twitter feed if you want to watch a very smart man sort through a pile of badly-thought-out policy.
posted by emjaybee at 12:25 PM on April 27, 2017 [30 favorites]
-children not exempt
-domestic violence shelters not exempt
-homeless shelters not exempt
-churches are exempt
-there will be lawsuits about its Constitutionality
-lots of local law enforcement: "this is a bad idea"
-cant' find the link, but saw a Tweet earlier indicating that El Paso and Houston are both defiant about assisting with this
Re the tax plan, corb asked me for a cite at end of the last thread what middle class families will lose--I've seen more than one analysis that says the cuts we get will be wiped out by the increase in other expenses, but of course, since this is basically an Underpants Gnome-level tax plan, it's hard to be sure what the heck they will do! Really I can just refer you to Krugman's twitter feed if you want to watch a very smart man sort through a pile of badly-thought-out policy.
posted by emjaybee at 12:25 PM on April 27, 2017 [30 favorites]
> "... you do have to hold a sort of grudging admiration ..."
Nope.
posted by kyrademon at 12:25 PM on April 27, 2017 [29 favorites]
Nope.
posted by kyrademon at 12:25 PM on April 27, 2017 [29 favorites]
I mean, in the same way we hold grudging admiration for cholera.
posted by Mayor West at 12:28 PM on April 27, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by Mayor West at 12:28 PM on April 27, 2017 [30 favorites]
homeless shelters not exempt
-churches are exempt
What about homeless shelters run by churches? This seems like the perfect time to practice some [insert x religion here] values.
posted by corb at 12:32 PM on April 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
-churches are exempt
What about homeless shelters run by churches? This seems like the perfect time to practice some [insert x religion here] values.
posted by corb at 12:32 PM on April 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
-homeless shelters not exempt
-churches are exempt
I was going to say "a church-run shelter could be a loophole there" but then I remembered I know a guy who runs a homeless charity. He broke off on his own after volunteering and seeing how most of the local church-run ones operate. I wonder how many church-run shelters are going to start demanding papers on their own.
posted by middleclasstool at 12:33 PM on April 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
-churches are exempt
I was going to say "a church-run shelter could be a loophole there" but then I remembered I know a guy who runs a homeless charity. He broke off on his own after volunteering and seeing how most of the local church-run ones operate. I wonder how many church-run shelters are going to start demanding papers on their own.
posted by middleclasstool at 12:33 PM on April 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Here in Alabama, when Jeff Sessions got the AG nod, I thought "it could have been worse -- they could have picked Roy Moore." Then, when Luther Strange got selected by the (now former) governor to take over for Sessions in the Senate, I thought "thank heavens he didn't send Roy Moore." Then, when the governor resigned and Kay Ivey took over, I thought "well, at least she's not Roy Moore."
Guess who just announced a run for Session's seat in the upcoming special election?
I don't have words to express how bad I think it will be if he actually gets elected, other than to say that if he does, I expect to see levels of bible-thumping, demagoguery, racism, and chauvinism that will make the worst of the past look tame in comparison.
I wish I could expect my fellow Alabamians to have better sense than to vote for this would-be ayatollah, but considering our state's political past, I'm not too optimistic. The only ray of hope I see is that there is expected to be a large field of candidates, some of which should also play well to some of Moore's base* (for example, the former chairman of the Christian Coalition of Alabama.)
*easily identified by the signs in their front yards listing the 10 commandments*
posted by TwoToneRow at 12:35 PM on April 27, 2017 [27 favorites]
Guess who just announced a run for Session's seat in the upcoming special election?
I don't have words to express how bad I think it will be if he actually gets elected, other than to say that if he does, I expect to see levels of bible-thumping, demagoguery, racism, and chauvinism that will make the worst of the past look tame in comparison.
I wish I could expect my fellow Alabamians to have better sense than to vote for this would-be ayatollah, but considering our state's political past, I'm not too optimistic. The only ray of hope I see is that there is expected to be a large field of candidates, some of which should also play well to some of Moore's base* (for example, the former chairman of the Christian Coalition of Alabama.)
*easily identified by the signs in their front yards listing the 10 commandments*
posted by TwoToneRow at 12:35 PM on April 27, 2017 [27 favorites]
-domestic violence shelters not exempt
-homeless shelters not exempt
Do they mean that anyone going to a shelter has to show their papers?
-churches are exempt
So sanctuary cities are bad, refugees seeking asylum are bad, but the literally medieval concept of sanctuary is something that needs to be explicitly brought back?
posted by Etrigan at 12:38 PM on April 27, 2017 [33 favorites]
-homeless shelters not exempt
Do they mean that anyone going to a shelter has to show their papers?
-churches are exempt
So sanctuary cities are bad, refugees seeking asylum are bad, but the literally medieval concept of sanctuary is something that needs to be explicitly brought back?
posted by Etrigan at 12:38 PM on April 27, 2017 [33 favorites]
Did you mean to say "Secretary of Commerce" Mnunchin?
posted by autopilot at 12:38 PM on April 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by autopilot at 12:38 PM on April 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Homeless people are widely known for carrying full and up-to-date dossiers proving their citizenship. So no worries there.
posted by delfin at 12:41 PM on April 27, 2017 [64 favorites]
posted by delfin at 12:41 PM on April 27, 2017 [64 favorites]
These posts often end up functioning merely as venues for discussion of current events, but the framing and narrative style of the post content is commendable, with very informative links that are worthy of discussion above and beyond the usual griping about whatever awful thing POTUS45 has done lately. Thanks much for putting this together, martin q blank.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:43 PM on April 27, 2017 [110 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 12:43 PM on April 27, 2017 [110 favorites]
All I can think as we near the 100 day line is "I could have voted for the meteor."
posted by Archelaus at 12:44 PM on April 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Archelaus at 12:44 PM on April 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
Thanks, tonycpsu. It's my first-ever post, so I tried to do it right. (Still managed to make three typos; sorry. Edit: looks like cortex cleaned up my mess.)
I've been a lurker for years, and filthy light thief and rhaomi have long been my heroes. (heroines? whatever.) All credit to them for setting good examples!
posted by martin q blank at 12:49 PM on April 27, 2017 [99 favorites]
I've been a lurker for years, and filthy light thief and rhaomi have long been my heroes. (heroines? whatever.) All credit to them for setting good examples!
posted by martin q blank at 12:49 PM on April 27, 2017 [99 favorites]
Great post! Thanks for putting it up, it will take some time to get through it, but it looks worth it!
posted by mumimor at 12:50 PM on April 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by mumimor at 12:50 PM on April 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
One good piece of news is that zombie AHCA looks likely to fail again.
posted by overglow at 12:50 PM on April 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by overglow at 12:50 PM on April 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
I wonder how many church-run shelters are going to start demanding papers on their own.
they'd better - this one couple smuggled their kid to egypt and back and no one checked their papers
next thing you know he's telling everyone about some kingdom and undermining the way society is supposed to work and stuff like that - why, he even caused trouble in a temple
see what happens when you don't ask for papers?
posted by pyramid termite at 12:51 PM on April 27, 2017 [45 favorites]
they'd better - this one couple smuggled their kid to egypt and back and no one checked their papers
next thing you know he's telling everyone about some kingdom and undermining the way society is supposed to work and stuff like that - why, he even caused trouble in a temple
see what happens when you don't ask for papers?
posted by pyramid termite at 12:51 PM on April 27, 2017 [45 favorites]
I just tried calling the VOICE hotline ready to ask the person on the other end of the phone if they have ever read about "The Criminal Jew" (Nazi publication that predated the Holocaust) but the line was too busy. I hope it's because they are flooded with calls about crop circles.
posted by prefpara at 12:53 PM on April 27, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by prefpara at 12:53 PM on April 27, 2017 [19 favorites]
the literally medieval concept of sanctuary is something that needs to be explicitly brought back?
Yes. Yes it does, and I will advocate for it anywhere I think it's likely to pass. If people can flee to churches for sanctuary from the new blackshirts, I think it is possibly the most noble use of a church that you can possibly find short of actually becoming a hospital.
posted by corb at 12:54 PM on April 27, 2017 [24 favorites]
Yes. Yes it does, and I will advocate for it anywhere I think it's likely to pass. If people can flee to churches for sanctuary from the new blackshirts, I think it is possibly the most noble use of a church that you can possibly find short of actually becoming a hospital.
posted by corb at 12:54 PM on April 27, 2017 [24 favorites]
Babies and children listed in Homeland Security's immigrant database of alleged criminals
Immigration attorney Bryan Johnson first noticed the flaw during a test search of the system. Johnson, who is based in Long Island, N.Y., and frequently defends children brought into the United States illegally, called it “reckless incompetence on the part of the Trump administration.”
“In their haste to pretend like they care about victims of immigrant crimes, the Trump administration released personally identifiable information regarding vulnerable children at risk of human trafficking and other crimes,” he said. “They should just take it down and do it right, which would basically show it's a farce because [it would] be close to impossible to create a database where only detainees listed had ‘victims.’”
posted by futz at 12:57 PM on April 27, 2017 [24 favorites]
Immigration attorney Bryan Johnson first noticed the flaw during a test search of the system. Johnson, who is based in Long Island, N.Y., and frequently defends children brought into the United States illegally, called it “reckless incompetence on the part of the Trump administration.”
“In their haste to pretend like they care about victims of immigrant crimes, the Trump administration released personally identifiable information regarding vulnerable children at risk of human trafficking and other crimes,” he said. “They should just take it down and do it right, which would basically show it's a farce because [it would] be close to impossible to create a database where only detainees listed had ‘victims.’”
posted by futz at 12:57 PM on April 27, 2017 [24 favorites]
Whatever your opinion of the man, you do have to hold a sort of grudging admiration
Let me stop you right there.
posted by Gelatin at 1:02 PM on April 27, 2017 [32 favorites]
Let me stop you right there.
posted by Gelatin at 1:02 PM on April 27, 2017 [32 favorites]
I'm assuming, based on the link that Etrigan was referring to, "sanctuary" in medieval England was basically equivalent to surrendering to ICE for deportation while simultaneously losing everything you own to civil forfeiture.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:04 PM on April 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 1:04 PM on April 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Do they mean that anyone going to a shelter has to show their papers?
"Has to"? No. "Can be forced to and arrested if they don't"? Yes.
posted by hanov3r at 1:05 PM on April 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
"Has to"? No. "Can be forced to and arrested if they don't"? Yes.
posted by hanov3r at 1:05 PM on April 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
the literally medieval concept of sanctuary is something that needs to be explicitly brought back?
Yes. Yes it does, and I will advocate for it anywhere I think it's likely to pass. If people can flee to churches for sanctuary from the new blackshirts, I think it is possibly the most noble use of a church that you can possibly find short of actually becoming a hospital.
You realize that the new blackshirts are thriving largely because of the enshrining of the church as a higher authority than the law, right? This country's planted thick with laws from coast to coast -- man's laws, not God's.
posted by Etrigan at 1:06 PM on April 27, 2017 [26 favorites]
Yes. Yes it does, and I will advocate for it anywhere I think it's likely to pass. If people can flee to churches for sanctuary from the new blackshirts, I think it is possibly the most noble use of a church that you can possibly find short of actually becoming a hospital.
You realize that the new blackshirts are thriving largely because of the enshrining of the church as a higher authority than the law, right? This country's planted thick with laws from coast to coast -- man's laws, not God's.
posted by Etrigan at 1:06 PM on April 27, 2017 [26 favorites]
Yeah, seeking sanctuary in a church is a short term measure, not a "god I hope these four years pass quickly as I don't have anything now and have to live inside a church" solution.
posted by Kitteh at 1:08 PM on April 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 1:08 PM on April 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
"The NAFTA reversal and re-reversal happened at whiplash speed. We’ll withdraw from from it; no, we’ll modify it; er, ummm, we still could withdraw after all."
Has it occurred to ANYONE in the media that Trump really has no idea what he's doing??
posted by Melismata at 1:09 PM on April 27, 2017 [17 favorites]
Has it occurred to ANYONE in the media that Trump really has no idea what he's doing??
posted by Melismata at 1:09 PM on April 27, 2017 [17 favorites]
Molina Healthcare says that if Congress doesn't fund the cost sharing reductions in the spending bill, they will withdraw from the marketplace immediately on the basis that the government isn't paying premiums, dropping coverage for ~650,000 people right away.
I think it is possibly the most noble use of a church that you can possibly find short of actually becoming a hospital.
I have huge problems with the Catholic hospital system, but they're unequivocal on what's happening now, even if they insist on using two spaces after a period (which actually takes some effort in HTML, WTF?):
I think it is possibly the most noble use of a church that you can possibly find short of actually becoming a hospital.
I have huge problems with the Catholic hospital system, but they're unequivocal on what's happening now, even if they insist on using two spaces after a period (which actually takes some effort in HTML, WTF?):
It is critically important to look at this bill for what it is. It is not in any way a health care bill. Rather, it is legislation whose aim is to take significant funding allocated by Congress for health care for very low income people and use that money for tax cuts for some of our wealthiest citizens. This is contrary to the spirit of who we are as a nation, a giant step backward that should be resisted.posted by zachlipton at 1:10 PM on April 27, 2017 [49 favorites]
No one is going to do this? Really? Ok then, it falls on me.
Metafiler: Little of substance, but plenty of activity and noise,
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:11 PM on April 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
Metafiler: Little of substance, but plenty of activity and noise,
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:11 PM on April 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
Can't they just go live in the nearest Ecuadorian embassy? They'll house anyone, apparently.
posted by delfin at 1:11 PM on April 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by delfin at 1:11 PM on April 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
Riane Konc, New Yorker: One Hundred Days Of Trumpitude
Many months later, as he faced the impeachment committee, President Donald Trump was to remember that distant afternoon when Jeff Sessions took him to discover ice. The world was so recent that many things lacked names, and, in order to indicate them, it was necessary to point. President Trump pointed at the customs agents.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:14 PM on April 27, 2017 [72 favorites]
“Yes,” Senator Sessions said. “These are the representatives of ice.”
“Wow. Such great Americans. Terrific,” Trump said, grabbing an agent’s hand and yanking it toward him in a manner so powerful that anyone watching should sincerely doubt that he had ever taken Viagra. “Keeping bad hombres out. Mexico will pay for it. Believe me!” he continued, casually removing and tossing aside the mittens he had worn because of a misunderstanding of what ice was. The Secret Service agent tailing him picked up the gloves and put them back on the hands of the American Girl doll from which they came.
A thing Obama said once: One of the things that you realize when you're in my seat is that, typically, the issues that come to my desk — there are no simple answers to them. Usually what I'm doing is operating on the basis of a bunch of probabilities: I'm looking at the best options available based on the fact that there are no easy choices. If there were easy choices, somebody else would have solved it, and it wouldn't have come to my desk. (from this interview)
Probably almost all presidents are surprised by how difficult the problems that land on that Resolute Desk are. But Trump is creating a worse situation for himself because he doesn't have those executives who can handle the easier questions. He literally does not have a functioning State Department. He has outsourced security to the generals not knowing that it is not within the generals reasonable qualifications to understand global politics. He has no idea how to deal with Congress, and he has no one on board who knows. There is no way he can succeed in conventional terms. But his core voters don't care about that. They are there for the feels, and he is delivering 200% on the feels, still.
posted by mumimor at 1:19 PM on April 27, 2017 [73 favorites]
Probably almost all presidents are surprised by how difficult the problems that land on that Resolute Desk are. But Trump is creating a worse situation for himself because he doesn't have those executives who can handle the easier questions. He literally does not have a functioning State Department. He has outsourced security to the generals not knowing that it is not within the generals reasonable qualifications to understand global politics. He has no idea how to deal with Congress, and he has no one on board who knows. There is no way he can succeed in conventional terms. But his core voters don't care about that. They are there for the feels, and he is delivering 200% on the feels, still.
posted by mumimor at 1:19 PM on April 27, 2017 [73 favorites]
Medieval sanctuary was a part of legal framework that made it permissible for churches to shelter actual criminals fleeing from law enforcement. Modern Republicans would lose their mind. It's as outrageous a concept as jubilee.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:21 PM on April 27, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:21 PM on April 27, 2017 [15 favorites]
North Korea puts out new video showing the White House in crosshairs and carriers exploding
They do love their videos.
posted by futz at 1:23 PM on April 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
They do love their videos.
posted by futz at 1:23 PM on April 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
"... you do have to hold a sort of grudging admiration ..."
"I mean, say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos."
posted by Trinity-Gehenna at 1:25 PM on April 27, 2017 [21 favorites]
"I mean, say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos."
posted by Trinity-Gehenna at 1:25 PM on April 27, 2017 [21 favorites]
Speaking of North Korea, here's a lovely example of the thought process of our elected representatives. Ladies and Gentlemen ... California Rep Brad Sherman:
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 1:29 PM on April 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
... Because smuggling BALES OF MARIJUANA is so simple!
At classified briefing @VP urged members to "convey the Administration's level of resolve to confront N. Korea." That resolve is weak, phony
Trump will pressure China only slightly, no tariffs. Wallstreet wins. China will take only token steps against N. Korea. Kim Jong-un wins.
I raised two issues: No. Korea could smuggle nuke into U.S. rather than use ICBM. Could smuggle inside a bale of marijuana....(1/2)
...and might sell nukes to Iran, which has billions of hard currency. Waiting for answers...(2/2)
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 1:29 PM on April 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
That seems completely off in any case. ICBM warhead nacelles are quite a bit bigger than a bale of mary jane (I'm imagining about the size of a bale of hay?), so unless you're talking about a bale the size of a shipping container there's no way North Korea's devices are getting smuggled anywhere. If they could make them that small they'd just stick them on top of a missile.
posted by zrail at 1:33 PM on April 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zrail at 1:33 PM on April 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
2018 is coming up fast. Any candidate who has any sense should try to force their opponent to make a statement on Trump--if its a toss up as to whether Trump's policies are locally popular, then focus on his character. Here are some handy videos: Trump recounting how great it was to have a beautiful girlfriend and wife at the same time, and of course an uncensored version of the access hollywood video with very clear audio.
Sorry, sorry, just feeling angry today and had to get that out. Back to the current discussion, and speaking of character--how 'bout that Flynn character? (Link goes to WaPo article about new investigations as to whether his payments from Russia and Turkey were illegal.)
posted by TreeRooster at 1:34 PM on April 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
Sorry, sorry, just feeling angry today and had to get that out. Back to the current discussion, and speaking of character--how 'bout that Flynn character? (Link goes to WaPo article about new investigations as to whether his payments from Russia and Turkey were illegal.)
posted by TreeRooster at 1:34 PM on April 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
From The Atlantic, April 24, 2017 — Donald Trump's Conflicts of Interest: A Crib Sheet [and still counting].
posted by cenoxo at 1:38 PM on April 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by cenoxo at 1:38 PM on April 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
Yes, the R's don't get to have "moral" complaints about candidates anymore, ever. I really hope Democratic activists will hold fast on this.
posted by mumimor at 1:39 PM on April 27, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by mumimor at 1:39 PM on April 27, 2017 [17 favorites]
It's not totally crazy to suggest that given NK's ICBM technology that it would be easier for them to nuke US cities by smuggling the bombs in rather than by firing them at us, but daaaaaaaaamn dude.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 1:40 PM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 1:40 PM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
This zombie healthcare thing is like a worst case scenario for the Republicans, all in an attempt to let Trump save face. Josh Marshall makes a good point; because this thing was dug up from its grave the Democrats can now easily argue in 2018 that the Republicans will never stop trying to take away your health care. Even when you think you're finally safe they'll pop up again to get you.
They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And they absolutely will not stop... ever, until we are dead.
posted by Justinian at 1:41 PM on April 27, 2017 [74 favorites]
They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And they absolutely will not stop... ever, until we are dead.
posted by Justinian at 1:41 PM on April 27, 2017 [74 favorites]
Some perspectives on Trump from rural Ohio voters in my district.
Kill me now with fire, bathe me in the iridescent light of oblivion, let me pass unfettered to the realms of glory for I cannot even comprehend the reality where anyone could grade this President with an "A" in these first one hundred days.
posted by Tevin at 1:44 PM on April 27, 2017 [17 favorites]
Kill me now with fire, bathe me in the iridescent light of oblivion, let me pass unfettered to the realms of glory for I cannot even comprehend the reality where anyone could grade this President with an "A" in these first one hundred days.
posted by Tevin at 1:44 PM on April 27, 2017 [17 favorites]
This is delicious:
Ignoring for the moment that Hannity signed his tweet (or perhaps he was saying he's the best person named Sean?) and added a strange dieresis to the reporter's name, or that he capitalized "NOT" but not "i," can it be the end of Fox News? Pretty please? Best Zach.
posted by zachlipton at 1:44 PM on April 27, 2017 [38 favorites]
Fox News in crisis: Sources say Bill Shine asked that the Murdochs release a statement of support but they refused.--@gabrielsherman
Gäbe i pray this is NOT true because if it is, that's the total end of the FNC as we know it. Done. Best Sean--@seanhannity
Ignoring for the moment that Hannity signed his tweet (or perhaps he was saying he's the best person named Sean?) and added a strange dieresis to the reporter's name, or that he capitalized "NOT" but not "i," can it be the end of Fox News? Pretty please? Best Zach.
posted by zachlipton at 1:44 PM on April 27, 2017 [38 favorites]
And what will take the place of Fox News? Surely not something better.
posted by dilaudid at 1:46 PM on April 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by dilaudid at 1:46 PM on April 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
Adam Liptak, NYT: Justices Alarmed by Government’s Hard-Line Stance in Citizenship Case
Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. tried to test the limits of the government’s position at a Supreme Court argument on Wednesday by confessing to a criminal offense.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:49 PM on April 27, 2017 [83 favorites]
“Some time ago, outside the statute of limitations, I drove 60 miles an hour in a 55-mile-an-hour zone,” the chief justice said, adding that he had not been caught.
The form that people seeking American citizenship must complete, he added, asks whether the applicant had ever committed a criminal offense, however minor, even if there was no arrest.
“If I answer that question no, 20 years after I was naturalized as a citizen, you can knock on my door and say, ‘Guess what, you’re not an American citizen after all’?” Chief Justice Roberts asked.
Robert A. Parker, a Justice Department lawyer, said the offense had to be disclosed. Chief Justice Roberts seemed shocked. “Oh, come on,” he said.
The chief justice asked again whether someone’s citizenship could turn on such an omission.
Mr. Parker did not back down. “If we can prove that you deliberately lied in answering that question, then yes,” he said.
The Twitter whip count has 35ish 'no' votes for Zombie TrumpCare, enough to spike it through the brain again. Pressure on "moderate" Republicans in Clinton districts is working.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:54 PM on April 27, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:54 PM on April 27, 2017 [30 favorites]
Ignoring for the moment that Hannity signed his tweet
so that's what todd lokken is up to these days
posted by entropicamericana at 1:57 PM on April 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
so that's what todd lokken is up to these days
posted by entropicamericana at 1:57 PM on April 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
Cynically, I'd say that the lesson of this past election is that focusing on a candidate's morality is a bad way to win, because racism and sexism are fine. But I've been wrong about a lot.
posted by Going To Maine at 1:58 PM on April 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 1:58 PM on April 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
But isn't speeding a civil offense, and not criminal?
posted by ArgentCorvid at 2:00 PM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by ArgentCorvid at 2:00 PM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oh and btw, on the radio I heard a Trump supporter explain why everything was still good. To cut it very short: there is no doubt this is all about the racism. But ignorance is a big thing too.
posted by mumimor at 2:01 PM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by mumimor at 2:01 PM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
But isn't speeding a civil offense, and not criminal?
According to the Trump administration, it doesn't matter what you lie about. You can lose your citizenship for lying about anything at all on the forms.
According to the Trump administration, it doesn't matter what you lie about. You can lose your citizenship for lying about anything at all on the forms.
Justice Sonia Sotomayor asked about the failure to disclose an embarrassing childhood nickname. Justice Elena Kagan said she was a “little bit horrified to know that every time I lie about my weight it has those kinds of consequences.”posted by OnceUponATime at 2:04 PM on April 27, 2017 [62 favorites]
Mr. Parker said the law applied to all false statements, even trivial ones.
Necessary for immigration but not necessary for the Attorney General, apparently. Asses.
posted by Green With You at 2:06 PM on April 27, 2017 [72 favorites]
posted by Green With You at 2:06 PM on April 27, 2017 [72 favorites]
Meanwhile Trump lies even when he's asleep.
posted by valkane at 2:07 PM on April 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by valkane at 2:07 PM on April 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
I'm glad the Supreme Court seems to be pretty united on "What the actual fuck, Trump administration" on that one. I was wondering how far they could stretch that one - like, does that apply to naturalization paperwork too? What if you submit it for your kids, are your kids no longer citizens? What if that then means they don't have a state?
In, uh, related news, which countries take stateless citizens?
posted by corb at 2:07 PM on April 27, 2017 [16 favorites]
In, uh, related news, which countries take stateless citizens?
posted by corb at 2:07 PM on April 27, 2017 [16 favorites]
Kaitlin Mensa, marie claire: Meet the Woman Who Took Bill O'Reilly Down
Three weeks ago, the Fox News figurehead was the most visible face of the President's favorite network. Until Steel and her Times colleague Michael S. Schmidt published an explosive investigation into repeated settlements involving allegations of sexual harassment and other inappropriate behavior. They found that O'Reilly had settled with at least five accusers over the last 15 years, to the tune of $13 million. (O'Reilly denies any wrongdoing.) Within days of their report, over 50 advertisers publicly dropped his show. Now, of course, he's out of a job.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:11 PM on April 27, 2017 [24 favorites]
It was a full-circle moment for Steel, who was threatened by O'Reilly two years ago. She'd been reporting on his exaggerated claims about covering the Falklands War in the 1980s (he had actually covered protests more than 1,000 miles away, in Buenos Aires). "I am coming after you with everything I have," O'Reilly said in an on-the-record phone call to Steel. "You can take it as a threat."
Remember Ted Cruz's "EL CHAPO Act" to use forfeited drug money to pay for the wall?
We were so busy mocking other aspects of it that we forgot the obvious joke: "You named a bill to build a wall after a man who escaped from prison by tunneling under walls. Good work, buddy."
In other news, Will Trump Release the Missing JFK Files?. Maybe he's hiding the truth about Ted Cruz's father.
posted by zachlipton at 2:12 PM on April 27, 2017 [18 favorites]
We were so busy mocking other aspects of it that we forgot the obvious joke: "You named a bill to build a wall after a man who escaped from prison by tunneling under walls. Good work, buddy."
In other news, Will Trump Release the Missing JFK Files?. Maybe he's hiding the truth about Ted Cruz's father.
posted by zachlipton at 2:12 PM on April 27, 2017 [18 favorites]
Came across this Sartre quote from 1944 that crystalizes for me the nature of alpha-birther Donald Trump and Infowars and the alt-right movement that has somehow gained such power over our lives.
Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play.posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:13 PM on April 27, 2017 [145 favorites]
They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.
The handsome, mysterious, btw also Jewish power behind the throne famous for owning 666 Fifth Avenue is like something Jerry Jenkins cut from Left Behind for being a bit much
posted by theodolite at 2:14 PM on April 27, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 2:14 PM on April 27, 2017 [13 favorites]
should I call the new ICE hotline and report Melania y/n
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:14 PM on April 27, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:14 PM on April 27, 2017 [26 favorites]
The chief justice asked again whether someone’s citizenship could turn on such an omission.
Hmmm.. So, if the stories about Melinia Trump working on a tourist visa are true...
posted by mikelieman at 2:21 PM on April 27, 2017 [16 favorites]
Hmmm.. So, if the stories about Melinia Trump working on a tourist visa are true...
posted by mikelieman at 2:21 PM on April 27, 2017 [16 favorites]
easily identified by the signs in their front yards listing the 10 commandments
Any time the 10 Commandments comes up in a political context, the first question should be "which 10 Commandments?" There are four versions: Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, and Muslim. Displaying one particular version is endorsing a particular religion.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:21 PM on April 27, 2017 [29 favorites]
Kill me now with fire, bathe me in the iridescent light of oblivion, let me pass unfettered to the realms of glory for I cannot even comprehend the reality where anyone could grade this President with an "A" in these first one hundred days.
It's easy to understand in the first few sentences.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:24 PM on April 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
It's easy to understand in the first few sentences.
you'll often hear some variant of the same answer: the president is a voice for an area that for too long has been ignored by the political elite.He's a white man kicking around brown people. What's not to love if you're an unamerican dirtbag?
"He is more or less saying what we're saying," said Jane Woddell, a 68-year-old lifelong Republican
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:24 PM on April 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
To be perfectly clear:
Immigrants: There is no omission or falsehood immaterial enough to be excused.
The Attorney General: There is no omission or falsehood material enough to be prosecuted.
( See also: Michael Flynn )
posted by mikelieman at 2:25 PM on April 27, 2017 [49 favorites]
Immigrants: There is no omission or falsehood immaterial enough to be excused.
The Attorney General: There is no omission or falsehood material enough to be prosecuted.
( See also: Michael Flynn )
posted by mikelieman at 2:25 PM on April 27, 2017 [49 favorites]
Riane Konc, New Yorker: One Hundred Days of Trumpitude
“Just found out Obama hypnotized frogs to cast votes illegally!! Very bad move. Without frogs, I would have won popular vote easily!” he tweeted. The next morning, Kellyanne Conway awoke in her isolation chamber, and called all the morning shows, as she always did, disguising her voice. “O.K., yes, President Trump did say that Obama is hypnotizing frogs, but I think the real issue here, O.K., is why no one is talking about whether Hillary Clinton colluded with the frogs, and which frogs, and, frankly, how many frogs.”posted by kirkaracha at 2:26 PM on April 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
I can see what the Chief Justice is getting at, and of course I agree with his thrust, but I thought you only committed a criminal offence if a court finds you guilty? Otherwise - who knows whether it was really criminal or not? There are some classes of offence for which there is no legal defence (strict or absolute liability) if you can be shown to or admit the act, but in general you need to go through a hearing or trial to exclude potential factors that mean you didn't do anything criminal after all.
So, if I'm asked on a form if I ever committed a criminal offence, I always answer no. Because I've never been convicted of one (and anyone who says I have is guilty of libel or slander, to boot).
I don't think that question is designed to unfairly intimidate - or if it is, it's not going to work against the well-advised.
(I can't believe I'm quibbling with the Chief Justice on points of law, but here we are. Yay, internet. Yay, 2017)
posted by Devonian at 2:38 PM on April 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
So, if I'm asked on a form if I ever committed a criminal offence, I always answer no. Because I've never been convicted of one (and anyone who says I have is guilty of libel or slander, to boot).
I don't think that question is designed to unfairly intimidate - or if it is, it's not going to work against the well-advised.
(I can't believe I'm quibbling with the Chief Justice on points of law, but here we are. Yay, internet. Yay, 2017)
posted by Devonian at 2:38 PM on April 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
Any time the 10 Commandments comes up in a political context, the first question should be "which 10 Commandments?" There are four versions: Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, and Muslim. Displaying one particular version is endorsing a particular religion.
Five if you count the Ritual Decalogue!
(I would love for some wag to carve them up next time some horrible municipality wants a Ten Commandments monument. I think it's important for us to remember how America is founded on the one about not keeping covenants with the inhabitants of the land to which our God has brought us. I think that might've been Andrew Jackson's favorite commandment)
posted by jackbishop at 2:42 PM on April 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
Five if you count the Ritual Decalogue!
(I would love for some wag to carve them up next time some horrible municipality wants a Ten Commandments monument. I think it's important for us to remember how America is founded on the one about not keeping covenants with the inhabitants of the land to which our God has brought us. I think that might've been Andrew Jackson's favorite commandment)
posted by jackbishop at 2:42 PM on April 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
Chief Justice Roberts added that the government’s position would give prosecutors extraordinary power. “If you take the position that not answering about the speeding ticket or the nickname is enough to subject that person to denaturalization,” he said, “the government will have the opportunity to denaturalize anyone they want.”
Roberts also added that that kind of prosecutorial discretion should only ever be available to people trying minorities for drug-related crimes. [fake]
posted by TypographicalError at 2:46 PM on April 27, 2017 [10 favorites]
Roberts also added that that kind of prosecutorial discretion should only ever be available to people trying minorities for drug-related crimes. [fake]
posted by TypographicalError at 2:46 PM on April 27, 2017 [10 favorites]
Any time the 10 Commandments comes up in a political context
My eye starts twitching. INVARIABLY it's "Christians" pushing for some sort of 10 Commandments based legislation, and I'm all like, "As a Jew, I'd like you to explain clearly how this "Father, Son, Holy Spirit" doesn't violate the 2nd Commandment ( Talmud version )...
Then I drink bourbon.
delicious... bourbon. Brownest of the brown liquors... so tempting.
/me holds bottle to my ear: [whispering] What's that? You want me to drink you? But I'm in the middle of a post!
[puts it down]
Excuse me.
posted by mikelieman at 2:50 PM on April 27, 2017 [54 favorites]
My eye starts twitching. INVARIABLY it's "Christians" pushing for some sort of 10 Commandments based legislation, and I'm all like, "As a Jew, I'd like you to explain clearly how this "Father, Son, Holy Spirit" doesn't violate the 2nd Commandment ( Talmud version )...
Then I drink bourbon.
delicious... bourbon. Brownest of the brown liquors... so tempting.
/me holds bottle to my ear: [whispering] What's that? You want me to drink you? But I'm in the middle of a post!
[puts it down]
Excuse me.
posted by mikelieman at 2:50 PM on April 27, 2017 [54 favorites]
I want a monument to the 613 commandments on the front lawn of every government building.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 2:52 PM on April 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by OverlappingElvis at 2:52 PM on April 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
GOP in 2009: NO DEATH PANELS!
GOP voters 2009: We don't want DEATH PANELS!
GOP in 2017: GETTING RID OF PANELS! JUST DEATH!
GOP voters 2017:that wasn't what we meant...
GOP: JUST DEATH! ADDING DESTRUCTION!
GOP voters: uh...
posted by eclectist at 2:54 PM on April 27, 2017 [42 favorites]
GOP voters 2009: We don't want DEATH PANELS!
GOP in 2017: GETTING RID OF PANELS! JUST DEATH!
GOP voters 2017:that wasn't what we meant...
GOP: JUST DEATH! ADDING DESTRUCTION!
GOP voters: uh...
posted by eclectist at 2:54 PM on April 27, 2017 [42 favorites]
I want a secular republic.
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:55 PM on April 27, 2017 [33 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:55 PM on April 27, 2017 [33 favorites]
For the record, in our household, a "Sound and Fury" or "Faulkner" poo is what happens when you go to the toilet expecting something to happen, and it's just farts.
So. Yeah. Deeply apropos and a great title.
posted by teleri025 at 2:55 PM on April 27, 2017 [10 favorites]
So. Yeah. Deeply apropos and a great title.
posted by teleri025 at 2:55 PM on April 27, 2017 [10 favorites]
should I call the new ICE hotline and report Melania y/n
Dude, she's not from space.
posted by Artw at 2:58 PM on April 27, 2017 [12 favorites]
Dude, she's not from space.
posted by Artw at 2:58 PM on April 27, 2017 [12 favorites]
lol why the hell would you smuggle an illegal item INSIDE ANOTHER ILLEGAL ITEM
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 3:04 PM on April 27, 2017 [36 favorites]
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 3:04 PM on April 27, 2017 [36 favorites]
America Could Look Like North Carolina by 2020
Trump isn't the problem, it's all Republicans, and the proof is what they do with total control.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:12 PM on April 27, 2017 [37 favorites]
Trump isn't the problem, it's all Republicans, and the proof is what they do with total control.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:12 PM on April 27, 2017 [37 favorites]
Ryan Lenz and Booth Gunter at the Southern Poverty Law Center: “100 Days in Trump’s America”
posted by Going To Maine at 3:14 PM on April 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 3:14 PM on April 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
And what will take the place of Fox News? Surely not something better.
The answer is InfoWars, and “has taken”
posted by Going To Maine at 3:17 PM on April 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
The answer is InfoWars, and “has taken”
posted by Going To Maine at 3:17 PM on April 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
America Could Look Like North Carolina by 2020
You go far back enough and most of America used to look a lot like today's North Carolina. That's the obvious meaning of "Great Again".
And what will take the place of Fox News?
NewsMax is already running its own 24-hour channel. Even more appropriately, so is RT.
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:21 PM on April 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
You go far back enough and most of America used to look a lot like today's North Carolina. That's the obvious meaning of "Great Again".
And what will take the place of Fox News?
NewsMax is already running its own 24-hour channel. Even more appropriately, so is RT.
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:21 PM on April 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
cynically, I'd say that the lesson of this past election is that focusing on a candidate's morality is a bad way to win, because racism and sexism are fine. But I've been wrong about a lot.
Yeah, that ain't cynicism. That's an accurate appraisal of the election. The DNC tried! They tried so, so hard to nail Trump on being an unbelievably awful person who's spent decades saying unbelievably shitty, horrifying things in front of cameras. And guess what, it didn't work. The right is not going to abandon Trump for being racist, sexist, borderline-incestuous, venal, greedy, sleazy, cheating his contractors, not paying his taxes, and basically displaying the opposite of every Christian virtue. Hell, i think a lot of evangelical conservatives would be okay with it if he literally worshipped at the altar of Mammon. Hey, sometimes God uses imperfect tools for his purposes, or whatever. They already know that Trump is not a good christian or a good person. But that doesn't matter if he's their attack dog, as long as he gives them what they want. If he doesn't give them that, they might abandon him. But yeah, everyone already knows what an amoral shitbag he is, and a lot of Good Christians have found a way to think of that as a feature, not a bug.
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 3:31 PM on April 27, 2017 [55 favorites]
Yeah, that ain't cynicism. That's an accurate appraisal of the election. The DNC tried! They tried so, so hard to nail Trump on being an unbelievably awful person who's spent decades saying unbelievably shitty, horrifying things in front of cameras. And guess what, it didn't work. The right is not going to abandon Trump for being racist, sexist, borderline-incestuous, venal, greedy, sleazy, cheating his contractors, not paying his taxes, and basically displaying the opposite of every Christian virtue. Hell, i think a lot of evangelical conservatives would be okay with it if he literally worshipped at the altar of Mammon. Hey, sometimes God uses imperfect tools for his purposes, or whatever. They already know that Trump is not a good christian or a good person. But that doesn't matter if he's their attack dog, as long as he gives them what they want. If he doesn't give them that, they might abandon him. But yeah, everyone already knows what an amoral shitbag he is, and a lot of Good Christians have found a way to think of that as a feature, not a bug.
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 3:31 PM on April 27, 2017 [55 favorites]
At least we never again have to take a single thing they say seriously. All of their family values pontificating, all of the deficit hawking, all of it has been revealed to be utter bullshit. Sure you and I knew that already but now it's been shown, live and in living color, to everyone. They don't care about it. All they care about is racism and tax cuts.
posted by Justinian at 3:36 PM on April 27, 2017 [43 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 3:36 PM on April 27, 2017 [43 favorites]
America Could Look Like North Carolina by 2020
You go far back enough and most of America used to look a lot like today's North Carolina. That's the obvious meaning of "Great Again"
The President was born and raised in Queens.
posted by Going To Maine at 3:43 PM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
You go far back enough and most of America used to look a lot like today's North Carolina. That's the obvious meaning of "Great Again"
The President was born and raised in Queens.
posted by Going To Maine at 3:43 PM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
“Just found out Obama hypnotized frogs to cast votes illegally!! Very bad move. Without frogs, I would have won popular vote easily!” he tweeted. The next morning, Kellyanne Conway awoke in her isolation chamber, and called all the morning shows, as she always did, disguising her voice. “O.K., yes, President Trump did say that Obama is hypnotizing frogs, but I think the real issue here, O.K., is why no one is talking about whether Hillary Clinton colluded with the frogs, and which frogs, and, frankly, how many frogs.”
That's like a joke but not as funny. Clickhole's take on Bannon is about where you need to pitch it in today's target-rich environment for political comedy.
posted by Sebmojo at 3:43 PM on April 27, 2017 [13 favorites]
That's like a joke but not as funny. Clickhole's take on Bannon is about where you need to pitch it in today's target-rich environment for political comedy.
posted by Sebmojo at 3:43 PM on April 27, 2017 [13 favorites]
At least we never again have to take a single thing they say seriously.
You're assuming they care. Even if they feel like they have to listen (they don't), they invoke the Coulter defense: "No, YOU'RE the hypocrite because of the USSR, or something"
posted by lumpenprole at 3:44 PM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
You're assuming they care. Even if they feel like they have to listen (they don't), they invoke the Coulter defense: "No, YOU'RE the hypocrite because of the USSR, or something"
posted by lumpenprole at 3:44 PM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
As flames continue to consume Bannon’s car, the two of us begin our long walk to the White House for Bannon’s meeting with President Trump. As we walk, Bannon reaches into his coat pocket and starts pulling out Komodo dragon eggs and throwing them into the woods. “These scaly fucks kill every goddamn animal they see,” says Bannon as he throws five Komodo dragon eggs at a time deep into the forest.
“When these eggs hatch, they’ll eat almost all of America’s wildlife. Soon the only animals left in American forests will be Komodo dragons and bald eagles, just like in the age of Andrew Jackson. You’re witnessing the beginning of the great Forest Revolution, which I started. I’m the Johnny Appleseed of invasive reptile eggs.” He is then silent as he continues to scatter the eggs.
We continue our trek down the highway. Bannon is mostly quiet, except for one moment where he mumbles the words, “Jaws is the only Christian shark,” to himself.
posted by Sebmojo at 3:50 PM on April 27, 2017 [30 favorites]
“When these eggs hatch, they’ll eat almost all of America’s wildlife. Soon the only animals left in American forests will be Komodo dragons and bald eagles, just like in the age of Andrew Jackson. You’re witnessing the beginning of the great Forest Revolution, which I started. I’m the Johnny Appleseed of invasive reptile eggs.” He is then silent as he continues to scatter the eggs.
We continue our trek down the highway. Bannon is mostly quiet, except for one moment where he mumbles the words, “Jaws is the only Christian shark,” to himself.
posted by Sebmojo at 3:50 PM on April 27, 2017 [30 favorites]
> “Just found out Obama hypnotized frogs to cast votes illegally!! Very bad move. Without frogs, I would have won popular vote easily!” he tweeted. The next morning, Kellyanne Conway awoke in her isolation chamber, and called all the morning shows, as she always did, disguising her voice. “O.K., yes, President Trump did say that Obama is hypnotizing frogs, but I think the real issue here, O.K., is why no one is talking about whether Hillary Clinton colluded with the frogs, and which frogs, and, frankly, how many frogs.”No matter where you fall on the D&D alignment chart in regards to Chaos, just know that the slaadi also totally hate Trump too.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 4:01 PM on April 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
And what will take the place of Fox News?
Trump News! I mean, that was his real objective in running, right? Publicity for his new network, stealthily aided by Roger Ailes, overtly run by Bannon. He looked at Fox, knew that Murdoch was in the process of turning it over to his sons who are less fanatically conservative, and saw an opening. Okay he had to postpone his plans after accidentally winning the election but now he's reevaluating his position, with Fox weakening. He's in talks with O'Reilly as we speak, I guarantee it! And Ivanka gets her own time slot too! (/fake)
posted by TWinbrook8 at 4:07 PM on April 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
Trump News! I mean, that was his real objective in running, right? Publicity for his new network, stealthily aided by Roger Ailes, overtly run by Bannon. He looked at Fox, knew that Murdoch was in the process of turning it over to his sons who are less fanatically conservative, and saw an opening. Okay he had to postpone his plans after accidentally winning the election but now he's reevaluating his position, with Fox weakening. He's in talks with O'Reilly as we speak, I guarantee it! And Ivanka gets her own time slot too! (/fake)
posted by TWinbrook8 at 4:07 PM on April 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
I say we just chuck all this BS, refuse to pretend Trump or any of the Republican leadership is legitimate, and start organizing and building an alternative, parallel government without all the fund raising graft and party system baggage on our own.
I guess that's probably unrealistic though. :/
posted by saulgoodman at 4:13 PM on April 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
I guess that's probably unrealistic though. :/
posted by saulgoodman at 4:13 PM on April 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
If you've been busy calling and visiting your elected officials (or even if you haven't!), I just wanted to say: please say thank you.
I've mentioned before that, in addition to lots of calls and faxes urging my representatives to take a particular action, I've also been trying hard to watch for things they do that I approve of, and then taking a moment to say thanks. (Many weeks I'll send a Friday thank-you fax thanking a rep for a few recent things - like this week Senator Harris gets my thanks for her DACA legislation, speaking out about national monuments, supporting a higher minimum wage, and holding a town hall.)
So, today, after calling my senators on ACA and the budget, I took a moment to call San Francisco City Attorney Dennis Herrera, who (with Santa Clara) filed the lawsuit over Trump's executive order to withhold federal funds from sanctuary cities. So far, the city has prevailed and Trump and Sessions have lost - the ruling puts a halt to any withholding of funds from sanctuary jurisdictions.
So I called and left voicemail just offering my effusive thanks to Herrera and his staff.
I just got a really nice voicemail back from one of the main staffers there saying how much it meant to get a call like that. "It is not common that people call government expressing gratitude, and for those of us who have worked really hard ... - I really thank you for placing the call and for letting us know how you felt."
There are a lot of people working really hard for us, especially in the cities and states where this is all playing out. A genuine thank you recognizing hard work can mean a lot.
So please: watch for your officials to do the right thing. Then, whether they succeed or not, take a moment to say thank you.
(And to everyone who's been calling and writing and taking to the streets and doing all the other work of resisting and organizing: I say thank you!)
posted by kristi at 4:17 PM on April 27, 2017 [93 favorites]
I've mentioned before that, in addition to lots of calls and faxes urging my representatives to take a particular action, I've also been trying hard to watch for things they do that I approve of, and then taking a moment to say thanks. (Many weeks I'll send a Friday thank-you fax thanking a rep for a few recent things - like this week Senator Harris gets my thanks for her DACA legislation, speaking out about national monuments, supporting a higher minimum wage, and holding a town hall.)
So, today, after calling my senators on ACA and the budget, I took a moment to call San Francisco City Attorney Dennis Herrera, who (with Santa Clara) filed the lawsuit over Trump's executive order to withhold federal funds from sanctuary cities. So far, the city has prevailed and Trump and Sessions have lost - the ruling puts a halt to any withholding of funds from sanctuary jurisdictions.
So I called and left voicemail just offering my effusive thanks to Herrera and his staff.
I just got a really nice voicemail back from one of the main staffers there saying how much it meant to get a call like that. "It is not common that people call government expressing gratitude, and for those of us who have worked really hard ... - I really thank you for placing the call and for letting us know how you felt."
There are a lot of people working really hard for us, especially in the cities and states where this is all playing out. A genuine thank you recognizing hard work can mean a lot.
So please: watch for your officials to do the right thing. Then, whether they succeed or not, take a moment to say thank you.
(And to everyone who's been calling and writing and taking to the streets and doing all the other work of resisting and organizing: I say thank you!)
posted by kristi at 4:17 PM on April 27, 2017 [93 favorites]
Are Trump Voters Ruining America For All Of Us? asks conservative Naval War College professor of national security affairs Tom Nichols.
"There is a more disturbing possibility here than pure ignorance: that voters not only do not understand these issues, but also that they simply do not care about them. As his supporters like to point out, Trump makes the right enemies, and that’s enough for them. Journalists, scientists, policy wonks — as long as “the elites” are upset, Trump’s voters assume that the administration is doing something right," he observes.
"There is a serious danger to American democracy in all this. When voters choose ill-informed grudges and diffuse resentment over the public good, a republic becomes unsustainable. The temperance and prudent reasoning required of representative government gets pushed aside in favor of whatever ignorant idea has seized the public at that moment. The Washington Post recently changed its motto to “democracy dies in darkness,” a phrase that is not only pretentious but inaccurate. More likely, American democracy will die in dumbness." {emphasis added}
And as if to confirm his thesis, the Washington Post published this article: Trump’s Lies Are Working Brilliantly. This New Poll Proves It.; and the LA Times this one: This Democratic Bastion Flipped For Trump. After 100 Days, Voters Have No Regrets.
posted by Doktor Zed at 4:21 PM on April 27, 2017 [66 favorites]
"There is a more disturbing possibility here than pure ignorance: that voters not only do not understand these issues, but also that they simply do not care about them. As his supporters like to point out, Trump makes the right enemies, and that’s enough for them. Journalists, scientists, policy wonks — as long as “the elites” are upset, Trump’s voters assume that the administration is doing something right," he observes.
"There is a serious danger to American democracy in all this. When voters choose ill-informed grudges and diffuse resentment over the public good, a republic becomes unsustainable. The temperance and prudent reasoning required of representative government gets pushed aside in favor of whatever ignorant idea has seized the public at that moment. The Washington Post recently changed its motto to “democracy dies in darkness,” a phrase that is not only pretentious but inaccurate. More likely, American democracy will die in dumbness." {emphasis added}
And as if to confirm his thesis, the Washington Post published this article: Trump’s Lies Are Working Brilliantly. This New Poll Proves It.; and the LA Times this one: This Democratic Bastion Flipped For Trump. After 100 Days, Voters Have No Regrets.
posted by Doktor Zed at 4:21 PM on April 27, 2017 [66 favorites]
I've been worried about Voice of America turning into Trump's World Trumpet, what with the editorial board being dissolved and right wing bloggers being put in charge, but so far it's holding out. Today, they lead with Flynn and, cheekily, put an update on the MOAB drop under 'Extremism Watch' - would that US domestic news had that sort of focus.
posted by Devonian at 4:22 PM on April 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 4:22 PM on April 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Great article from Tom Nichols, but we already knew that. If he has any suggestions for how to fix this, I am all ears.
posted by corb at 4:27 PM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by corb at 4:27 PM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
teleri025: Keeping MetaFilter Classy Since 2005™
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:32 PM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:32 PM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Did anyone notice that we finally got an Agriculture Secretary this week? I'd totally forgotten about that.
posted by octothorpe at 4:35 PM on April 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 4:35 PM on April 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
I don't get it, while Perdue wouldn't be my choice he doesn't appear to be some sort of traitor, moron, neo-nazi, religious wackjob, or any of the other factors which tend to get someone brought to Trump's attention for a cabinet position. Did they run out of scum they found under a rock?
posted by Justinian at 4:44 PM on April 27, 2017
posted by Justinian at 4:44 PM on April 27, 2017
Matt Fuller, who really knows how to count members of Congress on healthcare, has a AHCA whip count up. Republicans can only afford to lose 22 members (21 if Chaffetz is off getting treatment for a preexisting condition). There are 17 firm nos, 10 leaning no, and 11 who say they're undecided. A bunch of moderates who were willing to support the last version of the AHCA have bailed, saying this goes too far on their promises on preexisting conditions, and they haven't picked up everyone from the Tuesday Group either. The chairs of Appropriations and Foreign Affairs aren't willing to support it, and it's not a good sign when top committee chairs won't back their leadership.
If your reps are on the linked list, your call could make a big difference.
Meanwhile, 28 hours and 15 minutes to a government shutdown.
posted by zachlipton at 4:44 PM on April 27, 2017 [15 favorites]
If your reps are on the linked list, your call could make a big difference.
Meanwhile, 28 hours and 15 minutes to a government shutdown.
posted by zachlipton at 4:44 PM on April 27, 2017 [15 favorites]
My church is working with other local parishes to prepare to house people needing sanctuary. We have people willing to barricade the doors if it comes to that.
posted by EarBucket at 4:44 PM on April 27, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by EarBucket at 4:44 PM on April 27, 2017 [15 favorites]
Oklahoma state Sen. Kyle Loveless resigns amid criminal investigation
Facing new accusations that he embezzled his own campaign funds, state Sen. Kyle Loveless resigned Thursday and admitted he made mistakes.
-- He became the third Oklahoma senator in the last two years to resign in disgrace after coming under criminal investigation. His resignation is effective immediately and is irrevocable.
-- The investigation by the DA's office at first focused on whether Loveless committed perjury when he failed to report all of his PAC donations on his campaign reports.
That investigation has expanded, Prater confirmed Thursday. It now also involves whether Loveless embezzled campaign donations.
-- Loveless also has been under investigation by the Oklahoma Ethics Commission because of discrepancies over his PAC donations. That investigation began in November.
-- Loveless has acknowledged in the past he's had personal shortcomings but was restored by God.
Another one bites the dust.
posted by futz at 4:45 PM on April 27, 2017 [23 favorites]
Facing new accusations that he embezzled his own campaign funds, state Sen. Kyle Loveless resigned Thursday and admitted he made mistakes.
-- He became the third Oklahoma senator in the last two years to resign in disgrace after coming under criminal investigation. His resignation is effective immediately and is irrevocable.
-- The investigation by the DA's office at first focused on whether Loveless committed perjury when he failed to report all of his PAC donations on his campaign reports.
That investigation has expanded, Prater confirmed Thursday. It now also involves whether Loveless embezzled campaign donations.
-- Loveless also has been under investigation by the Oklahoma Ethics Commission because of discrepancies over his PAC donations. That investigation began in November.
-- Loveless has acknowledged in the past he's had personal shortcomings but was restored by God.
Another one bites the dust.
posted by futz at 4:45 PM on April 27, 2017 [23 favorites]
New Labor secretary too.
Senate confirms Labor Secretary Acosta (No, not fluttering hellfire's boo Jim Acosta)
posted by futz at 4:54 PM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Senate confirms Labor Secretary Acosta (No, not fluttering hellfire's boo Jim Acosta)
posted by futz at 4:54 PM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Octothorpe: Did anyone notice that we finally got an Agriculture Secretary this week? I'd totally forgotten about that.
I watched the livestream of his welcoming speech. He took off his jacket, whipped off his tie, and rolled up his sleeves!
posted by acrasis at 4:55 PM on April 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
I watched the livestream of his welcoming speech. He took off his jacket, whipped off his tie, and rolled up his sleeves!
posted by acrasis at 4:55 PM on April 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Haaretz: Israel Believes Trump Will Not Seek to Move U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem for Now, Officials Say
I mean, good, but I guess they just had to get another reversal in there before the 100 day mark?
posted by zachlipton at 5:00 PM on April 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
I mean, good, but I guess they just had to get another reversal in there before the 100 day mark?
posted by zachlipton at 5:00 PM on April 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
Kill me now with fire, bathe me in the iridescent light of oblivion, let me pass unfettered to the realms of glory for I cannot even comprehend the reality where anyone could grade this President with an "A" in these first one hundred days.
posted by Tevin at 4:44 PM on April 27
That's because you get your news and information from somewhere other than Trump's tweets, FOX news, and Facebook. If those are your only sources then Trump hasn't done anything wrong-- in fact he has had a lot of success. It won't be until reality snakes through the lies and actually bites them on the ass that the hard-core fan is going to turn on Trump...and maybe not even then.
I've heard and read so many takes on how Trump really resonated with the voters, how he (and Bernie) really had the right language to speak to the White working class. I think that's hogwash. I think he just lied his head off and made all sorts of promises he could never fulfill. Unfortunately the people are so used to Politicians lying to them and making big promises they can't keep that the lying per se did not bother the Trump fans. Amidst the multitude of lies each fan found some nugget of fool's gold that they thought might turn out to be real--whether it was the part about draining the swamp or bringing the high paying manufacturing jobs back or putting Hillary in jail-- and then they dismissed all the other stuff as being unimportant or just "Trump being Trump."
He actually promised them at his rallies "I'll make all your dreams come true," as though he was a Prince in fairy tale, sweeping the princess off her feet. How could anyone who wasn't lying, who was trying to only promise those things that might actually be achievable, how could they compete with a fantasy? Who knew that the best way to reach out to "WWC voters in Red States" was just to lie your head off? I guess it makes sense, who wants to hear the truth ("The coal mining jobs are never coming back.") when the fantasy is so much more enjoyable?
The real test will be what happens in the coming 3 years and Trump not only does not fulfill any of the promises he made but actively works to make the lives of the poor and middle class voters more miserable. Even then, I'm sure he will still have a core of die hard fans who believe in him.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:03 PM on April 27, 2017 [37 favorites]
posted by Tevin at 4:44 PM on April 27
That's because you get your news and information from somewhere other than Trump's tweets, FOX news, and Facebook. If those are your only sources then Trump hasn't done anything wrong-- in fact he has had a lot of success. It won't be until reality snakes through the lies and actually bites them on the ass that the hard-core fan is going to turn on Trump...and maybe not even then.
I've heard and read so many takes on how Trump really resonated with the voters, how he (and Bernie) really had the right language to speak to the White working class. I think that's hogwash. I think he just lied his head off and made all sorts of promises he could never fulfill. Unfortunately the people are so used to Politicians lying to them and making big promises they can't keep that the lying per se did not bother the Trump fans. Amidst the multitude of lies each fan found some nugget of fool's gold that they thought might turn out to be real--whether it was the part about draining the swamp or bringing the high paying manufacturing jobs back or putting Hillary in jail-- and then they dismissed all the other stuff as being unimportant or just "Trump being Trump."
He actually promised them at his rallies "I'll make all your dreams come true," as though he was a Prince in fairy tale, sweeping the princess off her feet. How could anyone who wasn't lying, who was trying to only promise those things that might actually be achievable, how could they compete with a fantasy? Who knew that the best way to reach out to "WWC voters in Red States" was just to lie your head off? I guess it makes sense, who wants to hear the truth ("The coal mining jobs are never coming back.") when the fantasy is so much more enjoyable?
The real test will be what happens in the coming 3 years and Trump not only does not fulfill any of the promises he made but actively works to make the lives of the poor and middle class voters more miserable. Even then, I'm sure he will still have a core of die hard fans who believe in him.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:03 PM on April 27, 2017 [37 favorites]
SB 562 (California's single payer act) just made it out of committee in California!
CA is really doing this. They're going to go it alone and just implement single payer for the state lock, stock, and barrel.
posted by Talez at 5:05 PM on April 27, 2017 [86 favorites]
CA is really doing this. They're going to go it alone and just implement single payer for the state lock, stock, and barrel.
posted by Talez at 5:05 PM on April 27, 2017 [86 favorites]
third Oklahoma senator in the last two years
that is kind of amazing
posted by ryanrs at 5:13 PM on April 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
that is kind of amazing
posted by ryanrs at 5:13 PM on April 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
He actually promised them at his rallies "I'll make all your dreams come true," as though he was a Prince in fairy tale, sweeping the princess off her feet.
That fairy tale prince had a name. His name was Pedro.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 5:16 PM on April 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
That fairy tale prince had a name. His name was Pedro.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 5:16 PM on April 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Talez: "CA is really doing this. They're going to go it alone and just implement single payer for the state lock, stock, and barrel."
I haven't been following this too closely but I hope the bill sponsors have done their homework (e.g.: worked out the funding so they don't end up like Vermont did with their single-payer proposal, figured out how to fend off the insurance industry so they don't get "Harry and Louise"-ed, etc...)
I recall someone suggesting that if smallish countries like Denmark (population ~6MM) can figure out universal health care, then there's no reason why a state the size of California (population ~40MM) couldn't do the same. Except, as we learned from the Vermont example, perhaps the blockers are not necessarily due to the size of the population to be insured but rather their expectations around their tax burden.
posted by mhum at 5:18 PM on April 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
I haven't been following this too closely but I hope the bill sponsors have done their homework (e.g.: worked out the funding so they don't end up like Vermont did with their single-payer proposal, figured out how to fend off the insurance industry so they don't get "Harry and Louise"-ed, etc...)
I recall someone suggesting that if smallish countries like Denmark (population ~6MM) can figure out universal health care, then there's no reason why a state the size of California (population ~40MM) couldn't do the same. Except, as we learned from the Vermont example, perhaps the blockers are not necessarily due to the size of the population to be insured but rather their expectations around their tax burden.
posted by mhum at 5:18 PM on April 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
CA is really doing this. They're going to go it alone and just implement single payer for the state lock, stock, and barrel.
As much as I wish that were the case, I don't think Jerry Brown will sign it without major work on how the thing gets paid for. Major, major work.
So far this is like the Obamacare repeal pre-Republicans taking the government over. You push for stuff without a care about the details because it won't happen. But if we actually want single payer here in CA it's time to care about the details. How is this financed? What gets covered? Who runs the thing and how does that happen?
posted by Justinian at 5:20 PM on April 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
As much as I wish that were the case, I don't think Jerry Brown will sign it without major work on how the thing gets paid for. Major, major work.
So far this is like the Obamacare repeal pre-Republicans taking the government over. You push for stuff without a care about the details because it won't happen. But if we actually want single payer here in CA it's time to care about the details. How is this financed? What gets covered? Who runs the thing and how does that happen?
posted by Justinian at 5:20 PM on April 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
28 hours and 15 minutes to a government shutdown.
Currently Navy Federal, USAA, and First Command are offering government shutdown assistance for people on DoD payroll, as a heads up for our DoD members.
posted by corb at 5:25 PM on April 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
Currently Navy Federal, USAA, and First Command are offering government shutdown assistance for people on DoD payroll, as a heads up for our DoD members.
posted by corb at 5:25 PM on April 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
If anyone is interested, you can read SB562 here. Notably present: the start of a plan to address the "who runs the thing and how does that happen" and "what gets covered" part of the equation. Notably absent: how does this get paid for!
posted by Justinian at 5:27 PM on April 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 5:27 PM on April 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Civil service update: we heard nothing about a shutdown again today. If it happens it's going to catch at least one major agency totally flat footed.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:32 PM on April 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:32 PM on April 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
Do other countries go through this type of thing? Where political parties are so at odds with each other (and their constituents) that they let the government literally shut down for a while?
Some European countries are in caretaker mode for extended periods of time while the ruling coalition works itself out but they don't really shut down per se.
posted by Talez at 5:39 PM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Some European countries are in caretaker mode for extended periods of time while the ruling coalition works itself out but they don't really shut down per se.
posted by Talez at 5:39 PM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
In the first world? No, not generally as far as I know of. Our appropriations process is uniquely stupid, in that congress can mandate that money be spent...but a future congress still must take separate action to the authorize that money to be appropriated during a given budget year. Not to mention the separate and distinct stupidity of an arbitrary statutory cap on the government's total borrowing authority that must also be separately raised by congress.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:39 PM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:39 PM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
cautionary statement here - if say this does finally tip too far in the problems of trump - the issue won't be brought up soon. first, we'll see this go until January 21, 2019 before congress is actually motivated to sink this administration. i'd expect simultaneous efforts to be made against pence...
then president ryan. really, that can be that guys only long play here.
posted by Nanukthedog at 5:40 PM on April 27, 2017
then president ryan. really, that can be that guys only long play here.
posted by Nanukthedog at 5:40 PM on April 27, 2017
Notably absent: how does this get paid for!
I'm not sure you read enough. Premiums currently paid into the private system become a progressive premium paid into the public system.
posted by Talez at 5:40 PM on April 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm not sure you read enough. Premiums currently paid into the private system become a progressive premium paid into the public system.
posted by Talez at 5:40 PM on April 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
ABC News: President Trump at 100 days: No honeymoon but no regrets (POLL)
There's no honeymoon for Donald Trump in a new ABC News/Washington Post poll but also no regrets: He approaches his 100th day in office with the lowest approval rating at this point of any other president in polls since 1945 — yet 96 percent of those who supported him in November say they'd do so again today.Chauncey DeVega (via Salon/Alternet): Are American voters actually just stupid? A new poll [from ABC News] suggests the answer may be “yes”
...
As noted, this poll, produced for ABC by Langer Research Associates, finds no evidence of buyer's remorse among Trump supporters. Among those who report having voted for him in November, 96 percent today say it was the right thing to do; a mere 2 percent regret it. And if a rerun of the election were held today, the poll indicates even the possibility of a Trump victory in the popular vote among 2016 voters.
Political scientists and other researchers have repeatedly documented that the American public does not have a sophisticated knowledge on political matters. The average American also does not use a coherent and consistent political ideology to make voting decisions. As Larry Bartels and Christopher Achen demonstrate in their new book “Democracy for Realists: Why Elections Do Not Produce Responsive Government,” Americans have identities and values that elites manipulate, which voters in turn use to process information — however incorrectly.posted by ZeusHumms at 5:42 PM on April 27, 2017 [39 favorites]
While some groups of voters may apply decision-rules based on community concerns (African-Americans fit this model), American voters en masse are not rational actors who seriously consider the available information, develop knowledge and expertise about their specific worries and then make political choices that would maximize their goals.
...
This ABC News/Washington Post poll also signals a deeper problem. In different ways, both Trump and Clinton voters appear unable to connect their personal political decisions to questions of institutional power and political outcomes. This is a crisis of civic literacy that threatens the foundations of American democracy.
then president ryan
don't worry I'll do better than the current guy
posted by ryanrs at 5:43 PM on April 27, 2017 [19 favorites]
don't worry I'll do better than the current guy
posted by ryanrs at 5:43 PM on April 27, 2017 [19 favorites]
Civil service update: we heard nothing about a shutdown again today. If it happens it's going to catch at least one major agency totally flat footed.
Trump has rapidly gained the reputation of a caver. Everyone expects him to keep caving.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:43 PM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trump has rapidly gained the reputation of a caver. Everyone expects him to keep caving.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:43 PM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Civil service update: I got an email today asking me to list the tasks I'd need done in case of a shutdown.
posted by acrasis at 5:44 PM on April 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by acrasis at 5:44 PM on April 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
Civil service update: we heard nothing about a shutdown again today. If it happens it's going to catch at least one major agency totally flat footed.
Make that two, my agency has yet to say a single word to the workforce, total opposite of the daily updates we got in 2013. Not that I'm surprised.
posted by photo guy at 5:45 PM on April 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
Make that two, my agency has yet to say a single word to the workforce, total opposite of the daily updates we got in 2013. Not that I'm surprised.
posted by photo guy at 5:45 PM on April 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
"Do other countries go through this type of thing? Where political parties are so at odds with each other (and their constituents) that they let the government literally shut down for a while?"
Sometimes, sort-of. Consequences vary based on form of government and specific rules. Parliamentary systems are more common in the First World, and they collapse and form a new government rather than "shutting down" per se. But Belgium notably recently went 20 months without a government at all because they couldn't manage to form one, which is somewhat analogous to a US shutdown.
"Our appropriations process is uniquely stupid, in that congress can mandate that money be spent...but a future congress still must take separate action to the authorize that money to be appropriated during a given budget year. "
Yeah, also this; in the US if no appropriations are passed, the budget zeroes out. In other countries, spending typically continues at current levels. Which really changes the bargaining incentives.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:45 PM on April 27, 2017
Sometimes, sort-of. Consequences vary based on form of government and specific rules. Parliamentary systems are more common in the First World, and they collapse and form a new government rather than "shutting down" per se. But Belgium notably recently went 20 months without a government at all because they couldn't manage to form one, which is somewhat analogous to a US shutdown.
"Our appropriations process is uniquely stupid, in that congress can mandate that money be spent...but a future congress still must take separate action to the authorize that money to be appropriated during a given budget year. "
Yeah, also this; in the US if no appropriations are passed, the budget zeroes out. In other countries, spending typically continues at current levels. Which really changes the bargaining incentives.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:45 PM on April 27, 2017
Among those who report having voted for him in November
So this buyers remorse analysis doesn't take into consideration those who will no longer say they voted for him?
posted by localhuman at 5:47 PM on April 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
So this buyers remorse analysis doesn't take into consideration those who will no longer say they voted for him?
posted by localhuman at 5:47 PM on April 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
Since I know everyone is dying to hear about how things went at the Berkeley protests today, I have reports from the ground: nothing happened. I saw an old white guy with a huge American flag get into an argument and then get kicked off campus by a cop. Other than that it was mostly just people walking to class. There were police everywhere.
Meanwhile, there was a rally for free speech near city hall. I didn't bother stopping by, but apparently there were (and still are) people in body armor and capes(!), because that's what you wear when you're totally defending freedom for real and not just LARPing. Eyewitness reports called the crowd "hilarious," but sadly I have already left Berkeley for the day and cannot confirm this.
Gavin McInnes apparently read Ann Coulter's speech, because nothing says "intellectual freedom" like a racist guy railing against immigrants at 3 PM on a weekday in Martin Luther King, Jr. Park. The other celebrity appearance was the guy who got arrested for hitting someone with a stick while holding a homemade shield at last week's protest. He's using his newfound fame to promote a group called the Proud Boys, which sounds in no way like the bad guys in a late 80s/early 90s action movie starring Corey Haim.
No fights have broken out. We'll see what happens after dark.
/update
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 5:47 PM on April 27, 2017 [28 favorites]
Meanwhile, there was a rally for free speech near city hall. I didn't bother stopping by, but apparently there were (and still are) people in body armor and capes(!), because that's what you wear when you're totally defending freedom for real and not just LARPing. Eyewitness reports called the crowd "hilarious," but sadly I have already left Berkeley for the day and cannot confirm this.
Gavin McInnes apparently read Ann Coulter's speech, because nothing says "intellectual freedom" like a racist guy railing against immigrants at 3 PM on a weekday in Martin Luther King, Jr. Park. The other celebrity appearance was the guy who got arrested for hitting someone with a stick while holding a homemade shield at last week's protest. He's using his newfound fame to promote a group called the Proud Boys, which sounds in no way like the bad guys in a late 80s/early 90s action movie starring Corey Haim.
No fights have broken out. We'll see what happens after dark.
/update
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 5:47 PM on April 27, 2017 [28 favorites]
In my fantasy of how this all plays out in the event of an impeachment, whatever whatever scandalgate finally awakens the rough beast of the far right and they go after both Trump and Pence. Just as this is going on, as the insane rump wing Freedom caucus guys realize that Ryan might end up as President and decide to do everything they can to kneecap him. A successful kneecapping results in an inconclusive floor fight for a speaker with the Republicans delaying a vote again and again while they try to coalesce around a candidate (as they realize it will be President Pelosi if they divide the vote).
Now, some right wing Republican asshole still ends up as president under this way ("President Orrin Hatch"), but I'd be thrilled just to see a total Republican cluster fuck of succession. Indeed, it is the bright fantasy cloud I hold on to at all times.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:47 PM on April 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Now, some right wing Republican asshole still ends up as president under this way ("President Orrin Hatch"), but I'd be thrilled just to see a total Republican cluster fuck of succession. Indeed, it is the bright fantasy cloud I hold on to at all times.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:47 PM on April 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
But Belgium notably recently went 20 months without a government at all because they couldn't manage to form one, which is somewhat analogous to a US shutdown.
No it's not. In caretaker mode governments still function with the previous government in the executive. However, typically the old government can only continue with business as usual. No new initiatives can be taken but services are most certainly funded and continue to function during coalition building.
posted by Talez at 5:48 PM on April 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
No it's not. In caretaker mode governments still function with the previous government in the executive. However, typically the old government can only continue with business as usual. No new initiatives can be taken but services are most certainly funded and continue to function during coalition building.
posted by Talez at 5:48 PM on April 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
In other countries, spending typically continues at current levels.
The problems of government shutdowns and governance by hostage taking could be easily solved by a simple fix to the appropriations process, pass a law that says in the event of a funding lapse, current levels continue until a new appropriation. Same for the debt ceiling, pass a law that either abolishes it, or raises it xxx$ every time the debt gets within xxx$.
But that would take away Republicans' only method of governing. They don't know how to do anything other than extort concessions through threatening to harm their own citizens.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:49 PM on April 27, 2017 [28 favorites]
The problems of government shutdowns and governance by hostage taking could be easily solved by a simple fix to the appropriations process, pass a law that says in the event of a funding lapse, current levels continue until a new appropriation. Same for the debt ceiling, pass a law that either abolishes it, or raises it xxx$ every time the debt gets within xxx$.
But that would take away Republicans' only method of governing. They don't know how to do anything other than extort concessions through threatening to harm their own citizens.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:49 PM on April 27, 2017 [28 favorites]
Talez:
100657. (a) It is the intent of the Legislature to enact legislation that would develop a revenue plan, taking into consideration anticipated federal revenue available for the program. In developing the revenue plan, it is the intent of the Legislature to consult with appropriate officials and stakeholders.
That's just a placeholder. They know they need a ton more revenue and they have no idea how to get it yet. It's like, as I said, the Republican health care plan which had a section under "Pre-Existing Conditions" which read basically "We're gonna be great on pre-existing conditions and are hammering out the details!"
Hey I hope they make this work. But they're doing the easy bit now not the hard bit.
posted by Justinian at 5:49 PM on April 27, 2017
100657. (a) It is the intent of the Legislature to enact legislation that would develop a revenue plan, taking into consideration anticipated federal revenue available for the program. In developing the revenue plan, it is the intent of the Legislature to consult with appropriate officials and stakeholders.
That's just a placeholder. They know they need a ton more revenue and they have no idea how to get it yet. It's like, as I said, the Republican health care plan which had a section under "Pre-Existing Conditions" which read basically "We're gonna be great on pre-existing conditions and are hammering out the details!"
Hey I hope they make this work. But they're doing the easy bit now not the hard bit.
posted by Justinian at 5:49 PM on April 27, 2017
... in the same way we hold grudging admiration for cholera
Ahem. This administration would need to improve significantly before I extend them the same respect I afford cholera.
posted by um at 5:54 PM on April 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
Ahem. This administration would need to improve significantly before I extend them the same respect I afford cholera.
posted by um at 5:54 PM on April 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
Civil service update: we heard nothing about a shutdown again today. If it happens it's going to catch at least one major agency totally flat footed.
Trump has rapidly gained the reputation of a caver. Everyone expects him to keep caving.
Uh the proper term is “spelunker” thank you.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:54 PM on April 27, 2017 [17 favorites]
Trump has rapidly gained the reputation of a caver. Everyone expects him to keep caving.
Uh the proper term is “spelunker” thank you.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:54 PM on April 27, 2017 [17 favorites]
They know they need a ton more revenue and they have no idea how to get it yet.
You take the revenue currently being taken in on premiums, tweak it a little to take more from the top end earners, and add in Medicaid either in per-capita funding or a block grant clusterfuck, subtract the profits taken out and you have yourself working single payer funding. What am I missing here? It's not like everything gets 200% more expensive because the government is doing it.
posted by Talez at 5:56 PM on April 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
You take the revenue currently being taken in on premiums, tweak it a little to take more from the top end earners, and add in Medicaid either in per-capita funding or a block grant clusterfuck, subtract the profits taken out and you have yourself working single payer funding. What am I missing here? It's not like everything gets 200% more expensive because the government is doing it.
posted by Talez at 5:56 PM on April 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
Trump has rapidly gained the reputation of a spelunker. Everyone expects him to keep spelunking.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:56 PM on April 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:56 PM on April 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
Cholera gets things done.
posted by kyrademon at 5:57 PM on April 27, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by kyrademon at 5:57 PM on April 27, 2017 [16 favorites]
But that would take away Republicans' only method of governing.
This is still a fairly novel form of government abuse around here, though - like, it seems relatively important to use the proliferation of shutdown brinksmanship as an example of how things have gone off the rails. Republicans used to govern without shutting everything down.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:58 PM on April 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
This is still a fairly novel form of government abuse around here, though - like, it seems relatively important to use the proliferation of shutdown brinksmanship as an example of how things have gone off the rails. Republicans used to govern without shutting everything down.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:58 PM on April 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Ahem. This administration would need to improve significantly before I extend them the same respect I afford cholera.
CHOLERA/RESURGENT MUMPS OUTBREAK 2020!
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:59 PM on April 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
CHOLERA/RESURGENT MUMPS OUTBREAK 2020!
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:59 PM on April 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
Mm, I seem to recall a government shutdown back in the mid 90s too. I don't know much about pre-Gingrich shenanigans though.
posted by nat at 6:03 PM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by nat at 6:03 PM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Um. "EXCLUSIVE: Trump tells @Reuters there is a chance of 'major, major conflict with North Korea' in 100 days interview"
That doesn't seem like the kind of thing you should just casually drop in an interview.
Here's the story:
posted by zachlipton at 6:09 PM on April 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
That doesn't seem like the kind of thing you should just casually drop in an interview.
Here's the story:
"There is a chance that we could end up having a major, major conflict with North Korea. Absolutely," Trump told Reuters in an Oval Office interview ahead of his 100th day in office on Saturday.He sure loves his Coke button, doesn't he? And once again, he's talking about how it's "very difficult." Who knew?
Nonetheless, Trump said he wanted to peacefully resolve a crisis that has bedeviled multiple U.S. presidents, a path that he and his administration are emphasizing by preparing a variety of new economic sanctions while not taking the military option off the table.
"We'd love to solve things diplomatically but it's very difficult," he said.
...
Trump, asked if he considered North Korean leader Kim Jong Un to be rational, said he was operating from the assumption that he is rational. He noted that Kim had taken over his country at an early age.
"He's 27 years old. His father dies, took over a regime. So say what you want but that is not easy, especially at that age.
"I'm not giving him credit or not giving him credit, I'm just saying that's a very hard thing to do. As to whether or not he's rational, I have no opinion on it. I hope he's rational," he said.
Trump, sipping a Coke delivered by an aide after the president ordered it by pressing a button on his desk, appeared to rebuff an overture from Taiwan President Tsai Ing-wen, who told Reuters a direct phone call with Trump could take place again after their first conversation in early December angered Beijing.
posted by zachlipton at 6:09 PM on April 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
Mm, I seem to recall a government shutdown back in the mid 90s too. I don't know much about pre-Gingrich shenanigans though.
Right - per It’s Even Worse Than It Looks I would suggest that Gingrich was a critical change point. But that’s only three administrations ago, and there were no threats of a shutdown during the W. Bush years. (That, of course, is why it’s so weird to the threat of a shut-down right now, when the Rs control everything.)
posted by Going To Maine at 6:10 PM on April 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Right - per It’s Even Worse Than It Looks I would suggest that Gingrich was a critical change point. But that’s only three administrations ago, and there were no threats of a shutdown during the W. Bush years. (That, of course, is why it’s so weird to the threat of a shut-down right now, when the Rs control everything.)
posted by Going To Maine at 6:10 PM on April 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
There were several in the 80s too. It's not a new threat by Republicans. They've hated government since the New Deal, and wanted to end every single domestic dollar spent since. It's just been ramped up to 11 during the end stage of our democracy along with everything else.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:11 PM on April 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:11 PM on April 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Um. “EXCLUSIVE: Trump tells @Reuters there is a chance of 'major, major conflict with North Korea' in 100 days interview”
That doesn't seem like the kind of thing you should just casually drop in an interview.
Let me suggest a new standard for perceiving reality. That is absolutely the sort of thing the President would drop casually during an interview, because he says that kind of crazy thing all the time. So maybe that will happen, or maybe not. Who knows? When someone else says this might happen, without a few fewer caveats, then there’s a risk.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:12 PM on April 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
That doesn't seem like the kind of thing you should just casually drop in an interview.
Let me suggest a new standard for perceiving reality. That is absolutely the sort of thing the President would drop casually during an interview, because he says that kind of crazy thing all the time. So maybe that will happen, or maybe not. Who knows? When someone else says this might happen, without a few fewer caveats, then there’s a risk.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:12 PM on April 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
There were several in the 80s too. It's not a new threat by Republicans.
Perhaps Wikipedia’s table misrepresents things, but the 70s and 80s shutdowns seem to involve the Ds as players as well. Still, I’m learning things. Serves me right for not googling.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:15 PM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Perhaps Wikipedia’s table misrepresents things, but the 70s and 80s shutdowns seem to involve the Ds as players as well. Still, I’m learning things. Serves me right for not googling.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:15 PM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
I've been briefing my people based on our agency's contingency plan, but nothing "official" has come from up the line yet other than asking for a list of excepted employees who may need to work during a shutdown. I listed my IT guys so that they can shut everything off and go home. Oh, I also made a phone tree with personal phone numbers and e-mails. A research leader's work is never done.
posted by wintermind at 6:16 PM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by wintermind at 6:16 PM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Here's a list of the shutdown plans although none of them seem to be updated since 2015
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:21 PM on April 27, 2017
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:21 PM on April 27, 2017
Gäbe i pray this is NOT true because if it is, that's the total end of the FNC as we know it. Done. Best Sean
There is a lot going on at Fox right now. Big deals in the works, investigations, and lawsuits.
Federal probe of Fox News expands
In February the investigation was reported to be focusing on settlements made with women who alleged sexual harassment by former Fox News boss Roger Ailes, and questions about whether Fox had a duty to inform shareholders about the settlement payments.
The investigators have been asking "how the shareholder money was spent; who knew; and who should have known," one of the sources said.
But, CNNMoney has learned, the settlement payments are not the only thing they are examining.
Investigators have been probing possible misconduct by Fox News personnel and asking questions about the overall environment at the network.
Investigators have also been asking questions about mysterious confidants of Ailes -- people who were known inside Fox as "friends of Roger."
Lawsuit: Fox News group hacked, surveilled, and stalked ex-host Andrea Tantaros - After a sexual harassment claim, Fox News planted spyware on ex-host's computer.
Comparing their actions to the plot this season on the Showtime series Homeland, an attorney for former Fox News host Andrea Tantaros has filed a complaint in federal court against Fox News, current and former Fox executives, Peter Snyder and his financial firm Disruptor Inc., and 50 "John Doe" defendants. The suit alleges that collective participated in a hacking and surveillance campaign against her.
-- Tantaros claims that as early as February of 2015, a group run out of a "black room" at Fox News engaged in surveillance and electronic harassment of her, including the use of "sock puppet" social media accounts to electronically stalk her. According to the lawsuit:
Trying to silence Ms. Tantaros by unsuccessfully seeking to overwhelm her with a multitude of lawyers was unsavory, but legal. But the Defendants went to the next level with Ms. Tantaros: committing crimes...the Defendants in this case subjected Ms. Tantaros to illegal electronic surveillance and computer hacking, and used that information (including, on information and belief, privileged attorney-client communications) to intimidate, terrorize, and crush her career through an endless stream of lewd, offensive, and career-damaging social media posts, blog entries and commentary, and high-profile "fake" media sites which Fox News (or its social influence contractors) owned or controlled. These accounts and sites were made to appear as held by independent persons or neutral media entities ("sockpuppet accounts"). While the use of professional social influencers and fake stories, accounts and posts has been part of Fox News's [sic] stock and and trade for years. the use of illegal electronic surveillance and computer hacking has taken the company's conduct to a profoundly disturbing next level.
...According to a report by Salon's Matthew Sheffield, Snyder had originally done social media "black room" work for Fox News and Ailes through his company New Media Strategies, and he continued to do so under the aegis of Disruptor. This work, also done by a number of other contractors (such as Bert Solivan, a former FOXnews.com general manager who reported directly to Ailes), included operating a number of blogs under concealed identities to spread disinformation about competitors and allegedly obtaining phone numbers and credit reports of reporters Ailes disliked in order to spy on them. These surveillance campaigns were funded by Ailes from Fox News' budget.
I know that it seems like I quoted a lot from the article above but there is even more info that if true is damning. More accusations incoming:
Beyond Sexual Harassment, Lesser Known Scandals Could Cost The Murdochs A $14B Deal
-- And yet, there is a quieter scandal hiding in plain sight — rife with allegations of computer hacking, accusations of fraud, questions of political interference and payouts totaling more than $900 million — all which centered on a relatively anonymous Murdoch enterprise called News America Marketing.
Most recently, Jesse Watters of Fox Announces Vacation After Ivanka Trump Comment
Jesse Watters, the Fox News host who took heat this week for making a joke about Ivanka Trump that was criticized as lewd, said on Wednesday that he would be taking a family vacation until Monday. The move came just three days after his show began airing in a new high-profile time slot.
A Fox News spokeswoman declined to comment on whether the vacation had been planned before “The Five” moved to its new time slot, or if the time off was related to the criticism Mr. Watters had received throughout much of Wednesday.
On "vacation". All is not well at Fox "News". SAD.
posted by futz at 6:30 PM on April 27, 2017 [37 favorites]
There is a lot going on at Fox right now. Big deals in the works, investigations, and lawsuits.
Federal probe of Fox News expands
In February the investigation was reported to be focusing on settlements made with women who alleged sexual harassment by former Fox News boss Roger Ailes, and questions about whether Fox had a duty to inform shareholders about the settlement payments.
The investigators have been asking "how the shareholder money was spent; who knew; and who should have known," one of the sources said.
But, CNNMoney has learned, the settlement payments are not the only thing they are examining.
Investigators have been probing possible misconduct by Fox News personnel and asking questions about the overall environment at the network.
Investigators have also been asking questions about mysterious confidants of Ailes -- people who were known inside Fox as "friends of Roger."
Lawsuit: Fox News group hacked, surveilled, and stalked ex-host Andrea Tantaros - After a sexual harassment claim, Fox News planted spyware on ex-host's computer.
Comparing their actions to the plot this season on the Showtime series Homeland, an attorney for former Fox News host Andrea Tantaros has filed a complaint in federal court against Fox News, current and former Fox executives, Peter Snyder and his financial firm Disruptor Inc., and 50 "John Doe" defendants. The suit alleges that collective participated in a hacking and surveillance campaign against her.
-- Tantaros claims that as early as February of 2015, a group run out of a "black room" at Fox News engaged in surveillance and electronic harassment of her, including the use of "sock puppet" social media accounts to electronically stalk her. According to the lawsuit:
Trying to silence Ms. Tantaros by unsuccessfully seeking to overwhelm her with a multitude of lawyers was unsavory, but legal. But the Defendants went to the next level with Ms. Tantaros: committing crimes...the Defendants in this case subjected Ms. Tantaros to illegal electronic surveillance and computer hacking, and used that information (including, on information and belief, privileged attorney-client communications) to intimidate, terrorize, and crush her career through an endless stream of lewd, offensive, and career-damaging social media posts, blog entries and commentary, and high-profile "fake" media sites which Fox News (or its social influence contractors) owned or controlled. These accounts and sites were made to appear as held by independent persons or neutral media entities ("sockpuppet accounts"). While the use of professional social influencers and fake stories, accounts and posts has been part of Fox News's [sic] stock and and trade for years. the use of illegal electronic surveillance and computer hacking has taken the company's conduct to a profoundly disturbing next level.
...According to a report by Salon's Matthew Sheffield, Snyder had originally done social media "black room" work for Fox News and Ailes through his company New Media Strategies, and he continued to do so under the aegis of Disruptor. This work, also done by a number of other contractors (such as Bert Solivan, a former FOXnews.com general manager who reported directly to Ailes), included operating a number of blogs under concealed identities to spread disinformation about competitors and allegedly obtaining phone numbers and credit reports of reporters Ailes disliked in order to spy on them. These surveillance campaigns were funded by Ailes from Fox News' budget.
I know that it seems like I quoted a lot from the article above but there is even more info that if true is damning. More accusations incoming:
Beyond Sexual Harassment, Lesser Known Scandals Could Cost The Murdochs A $14B Deal
-- And yet, there is a quieter scandal hiding in plain sight — rife with allegations of computer hacking, accusations of fraud, questions of political interference and payouts totaling more than $900 million — all which centered on a relatively anonymous Murdoch enterprise called News America Marketing.
Most recently, Jesse Watters of Fox Announces Vacation After Ivanka Trump Comment
Jesse Watters, the Fox News host who took heat this week for making a joke about Ivanka Trump that was criticized as lewd, said on Wednesday that he would be taking a family vacation until Monday. The move came just three days after his show began airing in a new high-profile time slot.
A Fox News spokeswoman declined to comment on whether the vacation had been planned before “The Five” moved to its new time slot, or if the time off was related to the criticism Mr. Watters had received throughout much of Wednesday.
On "vacation". All is not well at Fox "News". SAD.
posted by futz at 6:30 PM on April 27, 2017 [37 favorites]
I mean, good, but I guess they just had to get another reversal in there before the 100 day mark?
I occasionally try to give Trump voters the benefit of the doubt and assume they had issues that were important enough to vote for him despite his racism, sexism, and incompetence. As he fails to deliver on promise after promise after promise, and (almost?) all that's left is the ugly stuff, how can they claim they didn't vote for that stuff, too?
Some of these people are people I love. I can't hate them. I just can't understand them.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:37 PM on April 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
This is not how you talk about North Korea. It just isn't. Even Reagan only talked about bombing Russia on camera by accident. And he had Alzheimers.
posted by Justinian at 6:40 PM on April 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 6:40 PM on April 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
So does Trump
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:42 PM on April 27, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:42 PM on April 27, 2017 [10 favorites]
This is not how you talk about North Korea. It just isn't. Even Reagan only talked about bombing Russia on camera by accident. And he had Alzheimers.
It is, though. It really, really, is. Welcome to our country.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:43 PM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
It is, though. It really, really, is. Welcome to our country.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:43 PM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
He's 27 years old. His father dies, took over a regime. So say what you want but that is not easy, especially at that age.
Trump was 25 years old when his father died and he took over a regime.
"I'm not giving him credit or not giving him credit, I'm just saying that's a very hard thing to do. As to whether or not he's rational, I have no opinion on it. I hope he's rational," he said.He renamed Elizabeth Trump & Son to The Trump Organization. Elizabeth was his grandmother.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:45 PM on April 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And they absolutely will not stop... ever, until we are dead.
Oh, elected Republicans feel fear, all right. Every time they look at Trump's polls, and remember he lost by three million votes, and remember their own tea party, they feel fear. Fear is all they have to sell, but they're feeling it now.
Everything else is spot on, of course.
posted by Gelatin at 6:46 PM on April 27, 2017
Oh, elected Republicans feel fear, all right. Every time they look at Trump's polls, and remember he lost by three million votes, and remember their own tea party, they feel fear. Fear is all they have to sell, but they're feeling it now.
Everything else is spot on, of course.
posted by Gelatin at 6:46 PM on April 27, 2017
In which the Washington Post talks to Trump about why he didn't pull out of NAFTA: he learned it would hurt Trump voters. ‘I was all set to terminate’: Inside Trump’s sudden shift on NAFTA
posted by zachlipton at 6:47 PM on April 27, 2017 [39 favorites]
“I was all set to terminate,” Trump said in an Oval Office interview Thursday night. “I looked forward to terminating. I was going to do it.”And this:
There was just one problem: Trump’s team — like on so many issues — was deeply divided.
As news of the president’s plan reached Ottawa and Mexico City in the middle of the week and rattled the markets and Congress, Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross, Agriculture Secretary Sonny Perdue and others huddled in meetings with Trump, urging him not to sign a document triggering a U.S. withdrawal from NAFTA.
Perdue even brought along a prop to the Oval Office: A map of the United States that illustrated the areas that would be hardest hit, particularly from agriculture and manufacturing losses, and highlighting that many of those states and counties were “Trump country” communities that had voted for the president in November.
“It shows that I do have a very big farmer base, which is good,” Trump recalled. “They like Trump, but I like them, and I’m going to help them.”
In the Oval Office interview, however, Trump repeatedly insisted that he was ready to pull out of NAFTA. At one point, he turned to Kushner, who was standing near his desk, and asked, “Was I ready to terminate NAFTA?”This man is dangerously ignorant.
“Yeah,” Kushner said, before explaining the case he made to the president: “I said, ‘Look, there’s plusses and minuses to doing it,’ and either way he would have ended up in a good place.”
posted by zachlipton at 6:47 PM on April 27, 2017 [39 favorites]
“Yeah,” Kushner said, before explaining the case he made to the president: “I said, ‘Look, there’s plusses and minuses to doing it,’"
In conclusion, NAFTA is a land of contrasts.
Seriously, this is how you write when you haven't read the book for your book report.
posted by Justinian at 6:50 PM on April 27, 2017 [54 favorites]
In conclusion, NAFTA is a land of contrasts.
Seriously, this is how you write when you haven't read the book for your book report.
posted by Justinian at 6:50 PM on April 27, 2017 [54 favorites]
Trump was 53 when his father died.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:55 PM on April 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:55 PM on April 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
“Yeah,” Kushner said, before explaining the case he made to the president: “I said, ‘Look, there’s plusses and minuses to doing it,’
In conclusion, NAFTA is a land of contrasts.
Why wouldn’t Kushner say that, regardless of his true feelings? He’s with the President in public, and his job is to make the President look good. Given that everyone surrounding the President knows who he is, I’m unsurprised that they communicate with him at his level.
(That said, pretty much any trade deal could be summarized as a “land of contrasts”, yeah? Witness the poor TPP, which everyone loved before they said they hated it, before they said they loved it again.)
posted by Going To Maine at 6:56 PM on April 27, 2017
In conclusion, NAFTA is a land of contrasts.
Why wouldn’t Kushner say that, regardless of his true feelings? He’s with the President in public, and his job is to make the President look good. Given that everyone surrounding the President knows who he is, I’m unsurprised that they communicate with him at his level.
(That said, pretty much any trade deal could be summarized as a “land of contrasts”, yeah? Witness the poor TPP, which everyone loved before they said they hated it, before they said they loved it again.)
posted by Going To Maine at 6:56 PM on April 27, 2017
“I was all set to terminate,” Trump said in an Oval Office interview Thursday night. “I looked forward to terminating. I was going to do it.”
This is Trump in a nutshell: gung-ho about taking some insanely drastic action that he has no concept of the consequences of, right up until the point when the latest person who talks to him changes his mind.
Senile doesn't even begin to describe the degree to which his faculties are compromised.
posted by tocts at 6:59 PM on April 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
This is Trump in a nutshell: gung-ho about taking some insanely drastic action that he has no concept of the consequences of, right up until the point when the latest person who talks to him changes his mind.
Senile doesn't even begin to describe the degree to which his faculties are compromised.
posted by tocts at 6:59 PM on April 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
Sen. Rand Paul, R-Kentucky, will teach a course on “dystopian visions” next fall in the Columbian College of Arts and Sciences, the school’s dean confirmed Thursday.
Good lord, I'd pay money to not to watch that man dry hump his own brain.
posted by futz at 7:00 PM on April 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
Good lord, I'd pay money to not to watch that man dry hump his own brain.
posted by futz at 7:00 PM on April 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
More from the Reuters interview is dropping:
And "psyched???" And surely "I was psyched to cancel a deal, but then the counterparties called me up and I changed my mind" might undercut whatever cred he had left as a negotiator?
posted by zachlipton at 7:03 PM on April 27, 2017 [13 favorites]
MORE: Trump wants to renegotiate or terminate 'horrible' trade deal with South Korea, wants it to pay for $1-billion THAAD missile defenseSo first he tells us we might be about to have a "major, major conflict" with North Korea, then he announces he wants to shake down South Korea for a billion bucks?
EXCLUSIVE: Trump tells @Reuters he was 'psyched to terminate NAFTA' before telephone calls from Canadian, Mexican leaders
And "psyched???" And surely "I was psyched to cancel a deal, but then the counterparties called me up and I changed my mind" might undercut whatever cred he had left as a negotiator?
posted by zachlipton at 7:03 PM on April 27, 2017 [13 favorites]
Sen. Rand Paul, R-Kentucky, will teach a course on “dystopian visions” next fall in the Columbian College of Arts and Sciences, the school’s dean confirmed Thursday.
turns out the course is just a television playing c-span
posted by entropicamericana at 7:06 PM on April 27, 2017 [50 favorites]
turns out the course is just a television playing c-span
posted by entropicamericana at 7:06 PM on April 27, 2017 [50 favorites]
Sen. Rand Paul, R-Kentucky, will teach a course on “dystopian visions” next fall in the Columbian College of Arts and Sciences, the school’s dean confirmed Thursday.
Week 1: The horrors of graduated tax brackets
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:07 PM on April 27, 2017 [10 favorites]
Week 1: The horrors of graduated tax brackets
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:07 PM on April 27, 2017 [10 favorites]
Everyone loves the explosive buzz of a fresh batch of nukajuana!
posted by The Whelk at 7:10 PM on April 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 7:10 PM on April 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Sen. Rand Paul, R-Kentucky, will teach a course on “dystopian visions” next fall in the Columbian College of Arts and Sciences, the school’s dean confirmed Thursday.
He already scored an A on the practical.
posted by Artw at 7:11 PM on April 27, 2017 [13 favorites]
He already scored an A on the practical.
posted by Artw at 7:11 PM on April 27, 2017 [13 favorites]
Week 2: Civil Rights
How is this real life
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:16 PM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
How is this real life
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:16 PM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
No vote on the AHCA tomorrow or Saturday. In other words, they don't have the votes. Instead, they're, shockingly enough, just trying to see if they have the votes to fund the government instead.
posted by zachlipton at 7:17 PM on April 27, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:17 PM on April 27, 2017 [23 favorites]
Oh sorry, I forgot: Sad.
posted by zachlipton at 7:23 PM on April 27, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:23 PM on April 27, 2017 [15 favorites]
God that North Korea story upthread - I can't even.
"We'd love to solve things diplomatically but it's very difficult," he said.
If only you had a cabinet-level agency designed to do just that!
posted by photo guy at 7:29 PM on April 27, 2017 [19 favorites]
"We'd love to solve things diplomatically but it's very difficult," he said.
If only you had a cabinet-level agency designed to do just that!
posted by photo guy at 7:29 PM on April 27, 2017 [19 favorites]
Everyone loves the explosive buzz of a fresh batch of nukajuana!
HOW IS THIS NOT A THING IN THE FALLOUTVERSE?!
Obviously it's what you get if you grow marijuana on a hydroponic diet of pure Nuka-Cola Quantum. It's like the reverse of psychojet.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:32 PM on April 27, 2017 [17 favorites]
HOW IS THIS NOT A THING IN THE FALLOUTVERSE?!
Obviously it's what you get if you grow marijuana on a hydroponic diet of pure Nuka-Cola Quantum. It's like the reverse of psychojet.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:32 PM on April 27, 2017 [17 favorites]
Are Trump Voters Ruining America for All of Us?
A hard knot of Hillary Clinton’s supporters, for example — led by Clinton herself — refuse to accept that her defeat was anything less than a plot by the Russians or the FBI (or both). The idea that Clinton was an awful candidate who ran a terrible campaign is utterly alien to them.Kevin Drum has rebutted this pretty convincingly:
First: Keep in mind that Clinton was running for a third Democratic term during a period when (a) the economy was OK but not great and (b) Barack Obama's popularity was OK but not great.posted by kirkaracha at 7:41 PM on April 27, 2017 [74 favorites]
...
Second: For the sake of argument, let's assume that Hillary Clinton was an epically bad, unpopular candidate who ran a terrible campaign.
...
If this is true, it was true for the entire year. Maybe longer. And yet, despite this epic horribleness, Clinton held a solid, steady lead over Trump the entire time.
...
Third: Every campaign has problems. If you win, they get swept under the rug. If you lose, bitter staffers bend the ears of anyone who will listen about the campaign's unprecedented dysfunction and poor strategy. This is all normal.
...
If you disagree that Comey was decisive, you need to account for two things. First, if the problem was something intrinsic to Clinton or her campaign, why was she so far ahead of Trump for the entire race? Second, if Comey wasn't at fault, what plausibly accounts for Clinton's huge and sudden change in fortune starting precisely on October 28?
Sen. Rand Paul, R-Kentucky, will teach a course on 'dystopian visions' next fall
Dude, those are usually warnings, not wish lists.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:42 PM on April 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
The idea that Clinton was an awful candidate who ran a terrible campaign is utterly alien to them.
She outperformed her Abramowitz Model numbers, a forecasting measure of election fundamentals, by 2.4%. No winner in the last 7 elections did better than 1.5%.
She also outperformed House Ds by 3.3%. On top of, you know, winning the popular vote by 2.1%.
posted by chris24 at 7:50 PM on April 27, 2017 [64 favorites]
She outperformed her Abramowitz Model numbers, a forecasting measure of election fundamentals, by 2.4%. No winner in the last 7 elections did better than 1.5%.
She also outperformed House Ds by 3.3%. On top of, you know, winning the popular vote by 2.1%.
posted by chris24 at 7:50 PM on April 27, 2017 [64 favorites]
In which the Washington Post talks to Trump about why he didn't pull out of NAFTA: he learned it would hurt Trump voters.
Bullshit, and the Post should be embarrassed with themselves for falling for this. Trump's team's eagerness to sell them this story should have been a great big flashing sign that something wasn't right, and now they've gone and published a lie for Trump's deluded poorer supporters to point to when they claim that he really is trying to help them despite all of his actions accomplishing the contrary.
posted by IAmUnaware at 8:07 PM on April 27, 2017 [18 favorites]
Bullshit, and the Post should be embarrassed with themselves for falling for this. Trump's team's eagerness to sell them this story should have been a great big flashing sign that something wasn't right, and now they've gone and published a lie for Trump's deluded poorer supporters to point to when they claim that he really is trying to help them despite all of his actions accomplishing the contrary.
posted by IAmUnaware at 8:07 PM on April 27, 2017 [18 favorites]
From the end of the last thread:
“You don’t walk in with a traditional presentation, like a binder or a PowerPoint. He doesn’t care. He doesn’t consume information that way,” said one senior administration official. “You go in and tell him the pros and cons, and what the media coverage is going to be like.”
TV is our god, that is all we need know.
posted by petebest at 8:29 PM on April 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
“You don’t walk in with a traditional presentation, like a binder or a PowerPoint. He doesn’t care. He doesn’t consume information that way,” said one senior administration official. “You go in and tell him the pros and cons, and what the media coverage is going to be like.”
TV is our god, that is all we need know.
posted by petebest at 8:29 PM on April 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
Cripes. So this week he's given exclusive interviews to WaPo and Reuters and I think AP. Plus he's been the anonymous senior White House source in how many other reports?
Trump loves talking to the press, that's for sure.
posted by notyou at 8:30 PM on April 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
Trump loves talking to the press, that's for sure.
posted by notyou at 8:30 PM on April 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
TV is our god, that is all we need know.
Yeah what is this some type of 80s dystopian satire.
Oh wait.
posted by kittensofthenight at 8:36 PM on April 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
Yeah what is this some type of 80s dystopian satire.
Oh wait.
posted by kittensofthenight at 8:36 PM on April 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
I shall become a bat! Or possibly a robot cop.
posted by Artw at 8:38 PM on April 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:38 PM on April 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Our 80s dystopian satire needs more Max Headroom.
posted by Archelaus at 8:39 PM on April 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Archelaus at 8:39 PM on April 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
Hot takes and listicles = blipverts.
posted by Artw at 8:40 PM on April 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:40 PM on April 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
More Reuters dystopia: Trump says he thought being president would be easier than his old life:
posted by zachlipton at 8:42 PM on April 27, 2017 [77 favorites]
President Donald Trump on Thursday reflected on his first 100 days in office with a wistful look at his life before the White House.kj9ji;JIsd9KLhuow8r 🤡
"I loved my previous life. I had so many things going," Trump told Reuters in an interview. "This is more work than in my previous life. I thought it would be easier."
...
More than five months after his victory and two days shy of the 100-day mark of his presidency, the election is still on Trump's mind. Midway through a discussion about Chinese President Xi Jinping, the president paused to hand out copies of what he said were the latest figures from the 2016 electoral map.
"Here, you can take that, that's the final map of the numbers," the Republican president said from his desk in the Oval Office, handing out maps of the United States with areas he won marked in red. "It’s pretty good, right? The red is obviously us."
He had copies for each of the three Reuters reporters in the room.
posted by zachlipton at 8:42 PM on April 27, 2017 [77 favorites]
"Here, you can take that, that's the final map of the numbers," the Republican president said from his desk in the Oval Office, handing out maps of the United States with areas he won marked in red. "It’s pretty good, right? The red is obviously us."
He had copies for each of the three Reuters reporters in the room.
What a small petty insecure emotionally stunted 'man'. He is unfit.
posted by futz at 8:48 PM on April 27, 2017 [16 favorites]
He had copies for each of the three Reuters reporters in the room.
What a small petty insecure emotionally stunted 'man'. He is unfit.
posted by futz at 8:48 PM on April 27, 2017 [16 favorites]
He thought running the United States of America would be easier than running a Real Estate company?
posted by meech at 8:51 PM on April 27, 2017 [41 favorites]
posted by meech at 8:51 PM on April 27, 2017 [41 favorites]
Yeah, seriously?!?!?!
If/when all of this is eventually over, I want a constitutional amendment requiring presidents to have held at least elected office before.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:54 PM on April 27, 2017 [17 favorites]
If/when all of this is eventually over, I want a constitutional amendment requiring presidents to have held at least elected office before.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:54 PM on April 27, 2017 [17 favorites]
>"This is more work than in my previous life. I thought it would be easier."
Bizarre. He really thinks he worked hard, overcame stuff, and succeeded by merit. He doesn't know he's King Joffrey.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 8:55 PM on April 27, 2017 [64 favorites]
Bizarre. He really thinks he worked hard, overcame stuff, and succeeded by merit. He doesn't know he's King Joffrey.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 8:55 PM on April 27, 2017 [64 favorites]
Some thoughts on 99 days with Trump: "Nobody knew that...could be so complicated"
To me, the "nobody knew?" line is the really insulting part of this entire time [note: this was written before "I thought it would be easier" upthread, but sub in that line instead as the worst]. I expected the grift, the palace intrigue, the lies, the demonization and attacks on millions of Americans, the attacks on institutions, the efforts to tear down useful things out of spite, and the lashing out at dissenting views, and running indecisively from crisis to crisis. I was, regretfully, prepared for that by the campaign. But the bit that punches me in the gut is the extent to which none of these are serious people. They have no interest in actually doing the hard work involved in creating something worthy of being called "policy," no interest in doing any work at all. These are people who are now shocked to discover that "this shit is hard."
The tax "plan" is a perfect example. They supposedly had over 100 staffers working on this thing, yet they failed to produce a document that answers basic questions like "how much tax will I pay?" or "what is the revenue impact of these changes?" Something worthy of the title "plan" for something that impacts every person in the country ought to compare favorably in detail to a CVS receipt. I suspect the average President of a College Republicans chapter could have put out the same list of bullet points, possibly even a less regressive one, except they'd have done more research first. It was literally written on a cocktail napkin in the back of a club. The same slapdash "activity over quality" approach has been true for every single task this Administration has taken on, from the most basic ones like using the correct flag or identifying its own cabinet members properly to the big ones like launching missiles or rewriting the tax code.
What this means is that there has been a total abdication of any responsibility to care about the job. White House officials openly brag to the press about how they treat the President as a child, giving him just one one option and telling him how everyone will love him for it. Heck, they even brag to the press about how they lie to the press for sport. Hundreds of posts up and down the government have been left unfilled. Nobody in the White House cares.
And while I know we do here, the country doesn't seem to care either. Even in these threads, we're falling into the trap of trying to treat these pronouncements as serious proposals, debating the virtues of 401(k) deductions as if the White House's emissions constituted a good faith effort to govern rather than an exercise in noisemaking. There's not enough substance in these pronouncements to be worthy of evaluation, not enough credible backing behind them to have any reason to care, but we're so desperate for normalcy that we want to pretend. And the press isn't doing the job, not enough anyway. Julie Bosman summed up that situation yesterday:
I want to stop for a moment and mention the one story hanging over all of this: Russia. Because that's the story that hangs over everything, and nobody is dealing with it. This paragraph doesn't belong here, tucked into this particular rant, and that's kind of the problem. How can you do a serious appraisal of the first 100 days without mentioning that the election was manipulated by a hostile foreign power, one currently doing the same thing in France? But that's what pretty much every 100 day story has done. I get it; it doesn't fit the narrative. That's why I'm shoving it into this randomly placed paragraph. But it's here, uncomfortably starring us in the face, and nobody is taking the initiative to press the issue.
99 days ago on Inauguration Day, which feels like eleventy billion years ago, I was pretty much numb to what was happening. I didn't quite acknowledge it internally until I tuned into the Broadway "Concert for America" stream later that afternoon (you know, a well-meaning effort of the same sort that didn't get Clinton elected). At the end, they sang "Aquarius / Let the Sunshine In from Hair," and that's when it really hit me. I wasn't alive for that particular time period, but "here we go again" is all I could think. I was wrong. That fight at least involved, on its better days, some element of a clash of beliefs, of policies, of ideologies; people were fighting the -isms they most cared about. Today, it's all just a battle between people who give a damn and people who don't, and the White House is the guy in the back of the class furiously trying to copy his neighbor's homework in the hope of a last-ditch C. He doesn't really care if he gets the C either, but they say mean things about him on cable TV if he doesn't, and that makes him sad, so here we are with the slapdash last-minute shots. And as for the Democrats who do give a damn, virtually every serious one is too busy fighting to save scraps of what we've got to be affirmatively trying to lead us anywhere, trying to offer anything resembling a vision rather than just, at best, some resistance.
I keep coming back to a line in Julie Pace (AP)'s interview with Trump. She asks him what part of his business background doesn't translate to the Presidency, and he seems to express surprise that you need to have heart in government, because "here, almost everything affects people...Here, everything, pretty much everything you do in government, involves heart, whereas in business, most things don't involve heart." We now live in a country where it is not particularly remarkable that the President just explained that he's discovered that giving a shit about other people is a basic part of the job and that this is something new for him. I don't know how much more clearly someone can announce that he has a severe personality disorder than a 70-year-old man telling a reporter that he's recently discovered that his actions affect other people.
I wish I had some kind of hopeful conclusion here. There really isn't one; everything is awful. On the bright side, we didn't all die in a nuclear war in the first 100 days, so go team "we are not yet dead." To the extent I can tease a better one out, it's that they really do seem to be discovering that this governing thing is more complicated than they thought, and the institutions I mentioned above are starting to close ranks to limit the damage. The destructive impulses are still there, but as their incompetence becomes more and more apparent and the failures stack up, the serious institutions are learning to ignore the Administration and do their own thing. If the White House keeps squandering every opportunity by simply not caring about their jobs, the grown-ups are going to keep replacing their wrecking balls with foam rubber mallets and hoping they don't notice. And while there's lots of damage they can still do with those things, at least some institutions will survive.
This is a guy who used to shout at the politicians on cable news, "any idiot could do a better job than these clowns." And now it must be starting to dawn on him that there just might be more to it. Who knew? As President Trump learns to open up his heart and let the sun shine in, he's discovering it really could be so complicated after all. That running a country really turns out to be a bunch of work. Maybe, just maybe, he'll increasingly find himself in a potemkin Presidency; one crafted to make him feel good about himself, letting him growl at a few targets while all the real levers of power are safely tucked away. Maybe then he'll get discouraged and find himself brokenhearted, sitting in a darkened Roosevelt Room recounting how many electoral votes he won as his staff still searches for the light switch. And then he'll press the red button on his desk, and order himself a Coke. Sad.
24 hours to a government shutdown.
posted by zachlipton at 9:00 PM on April 27, 2017 [194 favorites]
To me, the "nobody knew?" line is the really insulting part of this entire time [note: this was written before "I thought it would be easier" upthread, but sub in that line instead as the worst]. I expected the grift, the palace intrigue, the lies, the demonization and attacks on millions of Americans, the attacks on institutions, the efforts to tear down useful things out of spite, and the lashing out at dissenting views, and running indecisively from crisis to crisis. I was, regretfully, prepared for that by the campaign. But the bit that punches me in the gut is the extent to which none of these are serious people. They have no interest in actually doing the hard work involved in creating something worthy of being called "policy," no interest in doing any work at all. These are people who are now shocked to discover that "this shit is hard."
The tax "plan" is a perfect example. They supposedly had over 100 staffers working on this thing, yet they failed to produce a document that answers basic questions like "how much tax will I pay?" or "what is the revenue impact of these changes?" Something worthy of the title "plan" for something that impacts every person in the country ought to compare favorably in detail to a CVS receipt. I suspect the average President of a College Republicans chapter could have put out the same list of bullet points, possibly even a less regressive one, except they'd have done more research first. It was literally written on a cocktail napkin in the back of a club. The same slapdash "activity over quality" approach has been true for every single task this Administration has taken on, from the most basic ones like using the correct flag or identifying its own cabinet members properly to the big ones like launching missiles or rewriting the tax code.
What this means is that there has been a total abdication of any responsibility to care about the job. White House officials openly brag to the press about how they treat the President as a child, giving him just one one option and telling him how everyone will love him for it. Heck, they even brag to the press about how they lie to the press for sport. Hundreds of posts up and down the government have been left unfilled. Nobody in the White House cares.
And while I know we do here, the country doesn't seem to care either. Even in these threads, we're falling into the trap of trying to treat these pronouncements as serious proposals, debating the virtues of 401(k) deductions as if the White House's emissions constituted a good faith effort to govern rather than an exercise in noisemaking. There's not enough substance in these pronouncements to be worthy of evaluation, not enough credible backing behind them to have any reason to care, but we're so desperate for normalcy that we want to pretend. And the press isn't doing the job, not enough anyway. Julie Bosman summed up that situation yesterday:
"Journalists on twitter: This is not a plan!Institutions though, are starting to notice. Last month, Lawfare published an essay titled What Happens When We Don’t Believe the President’s Oath?. It argues that a whole bunch of systems are built on the assumption that everybody will take the President more-or-less seriously, and there's a long series of repercussions that occur when that doesn't happen. And we're seeing that in a lot of places. The Sanctuary Cities ruling this week involved both the Justice Department and the Court concluding that Trump's Executive Order was a mere bunch of puffery; it was an exercise in everyone saying "well, we'll just follow what the law says instead of what he's signed here." That's how people treat a child or an elderly relative with dementia who's demanded something absurd or impossible. Congress has enough problems on its hands and continues to pretend the President doesn't exist when it comes to healthcare, the budget, or the wall, and they spend most of their time hoping he doesn't start tweeting about this stuff, because he'll just get in the way. Foreign countries are learning to ignore his threats, secure in the knowledge of how easily he caves. Companies were worried about "tweet risk," the fear their stock would nosedive after an unfavorable Presidential tweet; now nobody thinks there's any there there. Even military movements are considered comedy after the Carl Vinson Strike Group incident. Nobody puts any faith in the White House's pronouncements, because we all know they'll probably reverse themselves anytime in the next five minutes or five months.
Journalists in news stories: This is a dramatic plan/blueprint/proposal etc"
I want to stop for a moment and mention the one story hanging over all of this: Russia. Because that's the story that hangs over everything, and nobody is dealing with it. This paragraph doesn't belong here, tucked into this particular rant, and that's kind of the problem. How can you do a serious appraisal of the first 100 days without mentioning that the election was manipulated by a hostile foreign power, one currently doing the same thing in France? But that's what pretty much every 100 day story has done. I get it; it doesn't fit the narrative. That's why I'm shoving it into this randomly placed paragraph. But it's here, uncomfortably starring us in the face, and nobody is taking the initiative to press the issue.
99 days ago on Inauguration Day, which feels like eleventy billion years ago, I was pretty much numb to what was happening. I didn't quite acknowledge it internally until I tuned into the Broadway "Concert for America" stream later that afternoon (you know, a well-meaning effort of the same sort that didn't get Clinton elected). At the end, they sang "Aquarius / Let the Sunshine In from Hair," and that's when it really hit me. I wasn't alive for that particular time period, but "here we go again" is all I could think. I was wrong. That fight at least involved, on its better days, some element of a clash of beliefs, of policies, of ideologies; people were fighting the -isms they most cared about. Today, it's all just a battle between people who give a damn and people who don't, and the White House is the guy in the back of the class furiously trying to copy his neighbor's homework in the hope of a last-ditch C. He doesn't really care if he gets the C either, but they say mean things about him on cable TV if he doesn't, and that makes him sad, so here we are with the slapdash last-minute shots. And as for the Democrats who do give a damn, virtually every serious one is too busy fighting to save scraps of what we've got to be affirmatively trying to lead us anywhere, trying to offer anything resembling a vision rather than just, at best, some resistance.
I keep coming back to a line in Julie Pace (AP)'s interview with Trump. She asks him what part of his business background doesn't translate to the Presidency, and he seems to express surprise that you need to have heart in government, because "here, almost everything affects people...Here, everything, pretty much everything you do in government, involves heart, whereas in business, most things don't involve heart." We now live in a country where it is not particularly remarkable that the President just explained that he's discovered that giving a shit about other people is a basic part of the job and that this is something new for him. I don't know how much more clearly someone can announce that he has a severe personality disorder than a 70-year-old man telling a reporter that he's recently discovered that his actions affect other people.
I wish I had some kind of hopeful conclusion here. There really isn't one; everything is awful. On the bright side, we didn't all die in a nuclear war in the first 100 days, so go team "we are not yet dead." To the extent I can tease a better one out, it's that they really do seem to be discovering that this governing thing is more complicated than they thought, and the institutions I mentioned above are starting to close ranks to limit the damage. The destructive impulses are still there, but as their incompetence becomes more and more apparent and the failures stack up, the serious institutions are learning to ignore the Administration and do their own thing. If the White House keeps squandering every opportunity by simply not caring about their jobs, the grown-ups are going to keep replacing their wrecking balls with foam rubber mallets and hoping they don't notice. And while there's lots of damage they can still do with those things, at least some institutions will survive.
This is a guy who used to shout at the politicians on cable news, "any idiot could do a better job than these clowns." And now it must be starting to dawn on him that there just might be more to it. Who knew? As President Trump learns to open up his heart and let the sun shine in, he's discovering it really could be so complicated after all. That running a country really turns out to be a bunch of work. Maybe, just maybe, he'll increasingly find himself in a potemkin Presidency; one crafted to make him feel good about himself, letting him growl at a few targets while all the real levers of power are safely tucked away. Maybe then he'll get discouraged and find himself brokenhearted, sitting in a darkened Roosevelt Room recounting how many electoral votes he won as his staff still searches for the light switch. And then he'll press the red button on his desk, and order himself a Coke. Sad.
24 hours to a government shutdown.
posted by zachlipton at 9:00 PM on April 27, 2017 [194 favorites]
If/when all of this is eventually over, I want a constitutional amendment requiring presidents to have held at least elected office before.
If not, you know we'll get a former WWE champ in the White House. Because that's what (barely enough of) the people want.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:02 PM on April 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
If not, you know we'll get a former WWE champ in the White House. Because that's what (barely enough of) the people want.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:02 PM on April 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
How many [unintelligibles] in the reuters interview? Were they more honest than than the AP reporters who had to admit that the [unintelligible] in their transcript was one of trump's handlers who was coaching him and wouldn't agree to be on the record? j/k, mostly.
winna posted in the previous thread:
The Daniel Dale article explains that [unintelligible] comment we were puzzled about earlier: "Sixteen times during the interview, the AP recorded a Trump remark as “unintelligible,” a notation that is highly unusual for a one-on-one interview in a silent setting like the Oval Office.
Pace explained to the Star that one of Trump’s aides, who did not want his or her comments included in the transcript, kept talking at the same time as him. This is itself highly unusual."
So basically his puppetmaster was talking, trying to get President Mynah Bird to say the right gibberish. We really need to know who that was and their remarks should be in the transcript too.
posted by futz at 9:04 PM on April 27, 2017 [25 favorites]
winna posted in the previous thread:
The Daniel Dale article explains that [unintelligible] comment we were puzzled about earlier: "Sixteen times during the interview, the AP recorded a Trump remark as “unintelligible,” a notation that is highly unusual for a one-on-one interview in a silent setting like the Oval Office.
Pace explained to the Star that one of Trump’s aides, who did not want his or her comments included in the transcript, kept talking at the same time as him. This is itself highly unusual."
So basically his puppetmaster was talking, trying to get President Mynah Bird to say the right gibberish. We really need to know who that was and their remarks should be in the transcript too.
posted by futz at 9:04 PM on April 27, 2017 [25 favorites]
President Donald Trump on Thursday reflected on his first 100 days in office with a wistful look at his life before the White House.
"I loved my previous life. I had so many things going," Trump told Reuters in an interview. "This is more work than in my previous life. I thought it would be easier."
Christ, what an asshole.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 9:05 PM on April 27, 2017 [29 favorites]
"I loved my previous life. I had so many things going," Trump told Reuters in an interview. "This is more work than in my previous life. I thought it would be easier."
Christ, what an asshole.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 9:05 PM on April 27, 2017 [29 favorites]
"This is more work than in my previous life. I thought it would be easier."
Hey, man, you can always go right back. Just say the word!
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:09 PM on April 27, 2017 [26 favorites]
Hey, man, you can always go right back. Just say the word!
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:09 PM on April 27, 2017 [26 favorites]
People Are Trolling Trump's New Anti-Immigrant Hotline With Reports Of Space Aliens And The Government Is Not Amused
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:12 PM on April 27, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:12 PM on April 27, 2017 [19 favorites]
Chauncey DeVega (via Salon/Alternet): Are American voters actually just stupid? A new poll [from ABC News] suggests the answer may be “yes”
You don't say.
bashingownheadintobloodypulponkeyboard.gif
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:13 PM on April 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
You don't say.
bashingownheadintobloodypulponkeyboard.gif
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:13 PM on April 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
You take the revenue currently being taken in on premiums, tweak it a little to take more from the top end earners, and add in Medicaid either in per-capita funding or a block grant clusterfuck, subtract the profits taken out and you have yourself working single payer funding. What am I missing here?
What you are missing, is that about half of people in California get their health insurance through their employer. The California single-payer proposal says that they will use the federal funds allocated to Medicaid (26% of people) and Obamacare (9% of people) but what about the half who currently have employer insurance? Employers currently choose from a variety of private insurance companies and choose to provide various percentages of premium payments for those plans. How do you transfer all of those people to government single-payer? Presumably they need to charge each employer some sort of premium for each employee they have but there is nothing in the proposal to indicate how that his done or how much to charge. Is is a flat rate for each employee? Is is a percentage of each employee's wages?
Not to say this can't be done. It works in each of the Canadian provinces. But there are a lot of details missing in the California proposal.
posted by JackFlash at 9:13 PM on April 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
What you are missing, is that about half of people in California get their health insurance through their employer. The California single-payer proposal says that they will use the federal funds allocated to Medicaid (26% of people) and Obamacare (9% of people) but what about the half who currently have employer insurance? Employers currently choose from a variety of private insurance companies and choose to provide various percentages of premium payments for those plans. How do you transfer all of those people to government single-payer? Presumably they need to charge each employer some sort of premium for each employee they have but there is nothing in the proposal to indicate how that his done or how much to charge. Is is a flat rate for each employee? Is is a percentage of each employee's wages?
Not to say this can't be done. It works in each of the Canadian provinces. But there are a lot of details missing in the California proposal.
posted by JackFlash at 9:13 PM on April 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
"I loved my previous life. I had so many things going," Trump told Reuters in an interview. "This is more work than in my previous life. I thought it would be easier."
Why did he think this? From TV shows? How can someone be SO DUMB? This is more than: Privileged White Man Surrounded by Sycophants [fill in the blank].
He is incurious, uneducated in every way. Loyalty is bought and not genuine. ALL of that aside, many men like him have an awareness of the world. This person does not. His awareness is himself. His convictions are based upon the last person he spoke to and this is why he is so dangerous.
posted by futz at 9:20 PM on April 27, 2017 [25 favorites]
Why did he think this? From TV shows? How can someone be SO DUMB? This is more than: Privileged White Man Surrounded by Sycophants [fill in the blank].
He is incurious, uneducated in every way. Loyalty is bought and not genuine. ALL of that aside, many men like him have an awareness of the world. This person does not. His awareness is himself. His convictions are based upon the last person he spoke to and this is why he is so dangerous.
posted by futz at 9:20 PM on April 27, 2017 [25 favorites]
Russia. Because that's the story that hangs over everything, and nobody is dealing with it.
E.J. Dionne, WaPo: Trump’s greatest single achievement almost never gets mentioned
E.J. Dionne, WaPo: Trump’s greatest single achievement almost never gets mentioned
In the outpouring of commentary on President Trump’s first 100 days in office, his greatest single achievement is almost never mentioned, which is itself a sign of what a major triumph it is: We are not talking much about whether Russia colluded with Trump’s campaign to help elect him.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:28 PM on April 27, 2017 [27 favorites]
[…]
And there is this core Trump principle: A lie is as good as the truth as long as you can get your base to believe it. And sure enough, the new Post-ABC News poll conducted last week found that 52 percent of Republicans believe that “the Obama administration intentionally spied on Trump and members of his campaign during the 2016 election campaign.” This should keep Trump going for a while.
What you are missing, is that about half of people in California get their health insurance through their employer. The California single-payer proposal says that they will use the federal funds allocated to Medicaid (26% of people) and Obamacare (9% of people) but what about the half who currently have employer insurance? Employers currently choose from a variety of private insurance companies and choose to provide various percentages of premium payments for those plans. How do you transfer all of those people to government single-payer? Presumably they need to charge each employer some sort of premium for each employee they have but there is nothing in the proposal to indicate how that his done or how much to charge. Is is a flat rate for each employee? Is is a percentage of each employee's wages?
The idea was to scrap the entire employer sponsored healthcare plan system and run it as an additional progressive tax on employers functioning as a sort of "premium".
posted by Talez at 9:30 PM on April 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
The idea was to scrap the entire employer sponsored healthcare plan system and run it as an additional progressive tax on employers functioning as a sort of "premium".
posted by Talez at 9:30 PM on April 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Healthy California Act proponent site
A payroll and income premium, which is higher for upper income earners, would replace insurance company premiums, co-pays and deductibles. No more double-digit premium increases.posted by Talez at 9:32 PM on April 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
run it as an additional progressive tax on employers functioning as a sort of "premium".
Sort of? Sort of what? Don't you think that "sort of" is kind of important? What kind of plan is that?
A payroll and income premium, which is higher for upper income earners, would replace insurance company premiums, co-pays and deductibles. No more double-digit premium increases.
Point to where that is specified in the SB562.
posted by JackFlash at 9:41 PM on April 27, 2017
Sort of? Sort of what? Don't you think that "sort of" is kind of important? What kind of plan is that?
A payroll and income premium, which is higher for upper income earners, would replace insurance company premiums, co-pays and deductibles. No more double-digit premium increases.
Point to where that is specified in the SB562.
posted by JackFlash at 9:41 PM on April 27, 2017
Molina Healthcare will "withdraw from the marketplace immediately" if the cost sharing reduction payments are not funded in the budget deal.
Molina provides plans to a million exchange enrollees, 9% of the total exchange participation could lose coverage as soon as May 31.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:44 PM on April 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
Molina provides plans to a million exchange enrollees, 9% of the total exchange participation could lose coverage as soon as May 31.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:44 PM on April 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
“I kind of pooh-poohed the experience stuff when I first got here,” one White House official said of these early months. “But this shit is hard.”
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:46 PM on April 27, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:46 PM on April 27, 2017 [16 favorites]
Molina Healthcare will "withdraw from the marketplace immediately" if the cost sharing reduction payments are not funded in the budget deal.
This is not surprising. Trump has a history of stiffing contractors and then saying "sue me." No sane company would continue to spend money providing healthcare on a vague suggestion that Trump might condescend to pay them later. This is going to cost a lot of people their healthcare.
posted by JackFlash at 9:54 PM on April 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
This is not surprising. Trump has a history of stiffing contractors and then saying "sue me." No sane company would continue to spend money providing healthcare on a vague suggestion that Trump might condescend to pay them later. This is going to cost a lot of people their healthcare.
posted by JackFlash at 9:54 PM on April 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
"I loved my previous life. I had so many things going," Trump told Reuters in an interview. "This is more work than in my previous life. I thought it would be easier."
Why did he think this? From TV shows? How can someone be SO DUMB? This is more than: Privileged White Man Surrounded by Sycophants [fill in the blank].
He thought that the job looked so easy that a black guy could do it, so why not him? But the most recent president who actually won the popular vote didn't really make it look easy. Remember all those before and after photos of 'a skinny kid with a funny name' and a grizzled 8 year incumbent?
He looked at Obama's cable news clips and thought that was all there was to the job. Wave at cameras and say stuff? Why not? Of course! Nobody knew that you had to know stuff. Nobody could have known. Sad.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 10:02 PM on April 27, 2017 [32 favorites]
Why did he think this? From TV shows? How can someone be SO DUMB? This is more than: Privileged White Man Surrounded by Sycophants [fill in the blank].
He thought that the job looked so easy that a black guy could do it, so why not him? But the most recent president who actually won the popular vote didn't really make it look easy. Remember all those before and after photos of 'a skinny kid with a funny name' and a grizzled 8 year incumbent?
He looked at Obama's cable news clips and thought that was all there was to the job. Wave at cameras and say stuff? Why not? Of course! Nobody knew that you had to know stuff. Nobody could have known. Sad.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 10:02 PM on April 27, 2017 [32 favorites]
This would probably be a good time to introduce all of America to the Dunning Kruger effect.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:10 PM on April 27, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:10 PM on April 27, 2017 [21 favorites]
...his greatest single achievement is almost never mentioned, which is itself a sign of what a major triumph it is: We are not talking much about whether Russia colluded with Trump’s campaign to help elect him.
But one of the biggest reasons we're not talking much about it is because U.S./Russia relations have actually gotten WORSE under Trump. Which some people consider proof there never was any deal with Russia, but more likely means that Trump, as he usually does, double-crossed whomever he was making a deal with.
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:17 PM on April 27, 2017 [10 favorites]
But one of the biggest reasons we're not talking much about it is because U.S./Russia relations have actually gotten WORSE under Trump. Which some people consider proof there never was any deal with Russia, but more likely means that Trump, as he usually does, double-crossed whomever he was making a deal with.
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:17 PM on April 27, 2017 [10 favorites]
“I kind of pooh-poohed the experience stuff when I first got here,” one White House official said of these early months. “But this shit is hard.”
Literally the only people who did not know this ended up in the whitehouse, somehow.
posted by Artw at 10:23 PM on April 27, 2017 [28 favorites]
Literally the only people who did not know this ended up in the whitehouse, somehow.
posted by Artw at 10:23 PM on April 27, 2017 [28 favorites]
First space protest.
Happy birthday, Melania! Here's a totally wrong American flag tweet for ya!
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:26 PM on April 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
Happy birthday, Melania! Here's a totally wrong American flag tweet for ya!
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:26 PM on April 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
Anti-Trump Aerobics. "We have created an aerobics routine comprised of Trump's most common gestures, comportments, and manners to block these entirely. Aerobics props of long, red neckties will be provided."
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:29 PM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:29 PM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
> “I kind of pooh-poohed the experience stuff when I first got here,” one White House official said of these early months. “But this shit is hard.”
I'm kind of waiting for The Onion headline: "Fake news site gives up and just starts running real news." with the quote "Reality has descended into self parody. We just can no longer compete with that."
posted by Zalzidrax at 10:34 PM on April 27, 2017 [17 favorites]
I'm kind of waiting for The Onion headline: "Fake news site gives up and just starts running real news." with the quote "Reality has descended into self parody. We just can no longer compete with that."
posted by Zalzidrax at 10:34 PM on April 27, 2017 [17 favorites]
Riane Konc, New Yorker (from January 26, 2017): This American Carnage
Episode No. 1: Inauguration Dayposted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:35 PM on April 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
From WBEZ, in Chicago, it’s “This American Carnage,” distributed by Public Radio International. I’m Ira Glass. Each week, of course, we choose a theme and invite writers and performers to take a whack at that theme. This week: Inauguration Day. Act One: The Audacity of Grope. Act Two: New Year’s Revolutions. Act Three: It’s Alright, Ma (I’m Only Tweeting). And Act Four: Schindler’s Listicle. Earlier today, our producer Sean Cole found the names of everyone here in the office written down with either “Jew,” “Gentile,” or “Not Sure, Leave a Dreidel on Their Desk and See What Happens” next to them. We’ll figure out what that’s all about. Stay with us.
Episode No. 14: Going Green
Hey, everybody. Ira here, with “This American Carnage,” where, each week, we take a meme, and bring you a variety of stories on that meme. Act One: Frog Out of Water. The newly appointed head of the Religious Science Cabinet (formerly the E.P.A.) has criminalized amphibians, claiming that “choosing to live both on land and in water constitutes gross promiscuity.” But what does this mean for working-class white people? Scott Carrier brings us that story. And Act Two: Pepe le Pew-Pew-Pew. New York’s reptiles have militarized. Now what? Etgar Keret reads what was originally intended as a short piece of fiction. Stay tuned.
Olivia Solon, Guardian: Facebook admits: governments exploited us to spread propaganda
Facebook has publicly acknowledged that its platform has been exploited by governments seeking to manipulate public opinion in other countries – including during the presidential elections in the US and France – and pledged to clamp down on such “information operations”.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:49 PM on April 27, 2017 [42 favorites]
In a white paper (PDF) authored by the company’s security team and published on Thursday, the company detailed well-funded and subtle techniques used by nations and other organizations to spread misleading information and falsehoods for geopolitical goals. These efforts go well beyond “fake news”, the company said, and include content seeding, targeted data collection and fake accounts that are used to amplify one particular view, sow distrust in political institutions and spread confusion.
I'm ashamed that my state has an asshole like this running for Governor.
Laura Vozzella, WaPo: Virginia gov’s race gets weird, as GOP candidate spars on Twitter with musician John Legend
Laura Vozzella, WaPo: Virginia gov’s race gets weird, as GOP candidate spars on Twitter with musician John Legend
Stewart’s comments prompted blowback from musician John Legend and many of his 9.2 million Twitter followers. Among those who chimed in was Lippman, who was born in Atlanta and raised in Baltimore.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:54 PM on April 27, 2017 [22 favorites]
“Darlin’ I’m a Southerner and happy to explain why those monuments are [messed] up,” Lippman wrote.
Someone tweeting as “Fashy Frog” shot back to Lippman: “Are you a Jew?”
Eventually Lippman’s husband, “Wire” creator Simon, jumped in with: “Are you a s---head? Sounds like it.”
And that’s where Stewart popped up again in the thread with this: “Just like a liberal: no argument, so attack the man.”
Arkansas just executed another person, and it seems to have gone badly, but the state is claiming all was fine and there's nothing to investigate (description of execution follows):
Media witnesses to the execution reported irregularities, telling reporters at the Arkansas prison where the execution took place that Williams was "coughing, convulsing, lurching, jerking, with sound" during his execution. One witness reported that Williams took 20 breaths after having been injected with the midazolam.posted by zachlipton at 11:02 PM on April 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
"He was clearly trying to draw in air," a media witness said. Williams "attempted to draw breath until 10:59," according to a media witness — the state said Williams' time of death was 11:05 p.m. CT.
"I thought being president would be easier": Trump's Reuters interview highlights
I asked my son today if he thought being President of America would be easy. He said yes. And you know what. That's fine. He's five years old, so he gets a pass on thinking that. Donald Trump, however, is 70 fucking years old. If he really thought this job was going to be easy, someone get this man a colouring book because that's the level of wisdom we're working with here.
posted by Effigy2000 at 11:47 PM on April 27, 2017 [41 favorites]
I asked my son today if he thought being President of America would be easy. He said yes. And you know what. That's fine. He's five years old, so he gets a pass on thinking that. Donald Trump, however, is 70 fucking years old. If he really thought this job was going to be easy, someone get this man a colouring book because that's the level of wisdom we're working with here.
posted by Effigy2000 at 11:47 PM on April 27, 2017 [41 favorites]
I remember being 8 and thinking about being President. Got this terrible anxiety over naming cabinet members and Supreme Court Justices. Serious worry. As if being President was the assignment for the next day and I hadn't even gotten started. I didn't know enough people. I knew I could name my best friend and my other best friend. And my teacher and my pastor. Maybe my Mom would want to be on the Supreme Court. But I needed even more people to nominate and I was running out of names.
At any rate, there's no excuse for Trump. I knew it at age 8 and even had a couple of nervous nights about it.
posted by honestcoyote at 1:19 AM on April 28, 2017 [20 favorites]
At any rate, there's no excuse for Trump. I knew it at age 8 and even had a couple of nervous nights about it.
posted by honestcoyote at 1:19 AM on April 28, 2017 [20 favorites]
If not, you know we'll get a former WWE champ in the White House. Because that's what (barely enough of) the people want.
I'm pretty confident Dwayne Johnson would be a far better President than Donald Trump.
posted by Justinian at 1:41 AM on April 28, 2017 [30 favorites]
I'm pretty confident Dwayne Johnson would be a far better President than Donald Trump.
posted by Justinian at 1:41 AM on April 28, 2017 [30 favorites]
First, She Survived a ‘Cult.’ Now She’s Running for Office.
Chelsea Savage, now 46, is (...) hoping voters in Virginia’s 73rd district will support her bid for the Democratic nomination for state delegate.
(...)
A Democratic victory would be a major feat, but for Savage — an openly gay single mother who grew up not just poor, but about as far from political pedigree as one can get — it would also be a personal triumph. A signal of how far she’s come.
posted by moody cow at 1:53 AM on April 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
Chelsea Savage, now 46, is (...) hoping voters in Virginia’s 73rd district will support her bid for the Democratic nomination for state delegate.
(...)
A Democratic victory would be a major feat, but for Savage — an openly gay single mother who grew up not just poor, but about as far from political pedigree as one can get — it would also be a personal triumph. A signal of how far she’s come.
posted by moody cow at 1:53 AM on April 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
This would probably be a good time to introduce all of America to the Dunning Kruger effect.
Nah, we're pretty sure we already understand it as well as the experts, if not better.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 3:55 AM on April 28, 2017 [89 favorites]
Nah, we're pretty sure we already understand it as well as the experts, if not better.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 3:55 AM on April 28, 2017 [89 favorites]
"Here, you can take that, that's the final map of the numbers," the Republican president said from his desk in the Oval Office, handing out maps of the United States with areas he won marked in red. "It’s pretty good, right? The red is obviously us."
I never thought that I would be so profoundly disgusted by a President. The whole country is "us."
posted by heatvision at 4:04 AM on April 28, 2017 [54 favorites]
I never thought that I would be so profoundly disgusted by a President. The whole country is "us."
posted by heatvision at 4:04 AM on April 28, 2017 [54 favorites]
Why did he think this? From TV shows? How can someone be SO DUMB? This is more than: Privileged White Man Surrounded by Sycophants [fill in the blank].
What shocks me isn't that he's so stupid but that he doesn't even bother to try to hide that fact. I mean, it's one thing to realize that being president is harder than you thought but it's another to admit that fact to the press.
posted by octothorpe at 4:17 AM on April 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
What shocks me isn't that he's so stupid but that he doesn't even bother to try to hide that fact. I mean, it's one thing to realize that being president is harder than you thought but it's another to admit that fact to the press.
posted by octothorpe at 4:17 AM on April 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
"I thought being president would be easier": Trump's Reuters interview highlights
White dude watches black dude excel at something and assumes it must be easy.
posted by supercrayon at 4:41 AM on April 28, 2017 [72 favorites]
White dude watches black dude excel at something and assumes it must be easy.
posted by supercrayon at 4:41 AM on April 28, 2017 [72 favorites]
White dude watches black dude excel at something and assumes it must be easy.
But it's worse than that. White dude also refuses to acknowledge that black dude is excelling.
posted by bardophile at 4:50 AM on April 28, 2017 [31 favorites]
But it's worse than that. White dude also refuses to acknowledge that black dude is excelling.
posted by bardophile at 4:50 AM on April 28, 2017 [31 favorites]
Angrycat, I had the same reaction: how infuriating it must be for HRC to read that Trump had no idea of what the job entailed and how difficult it is to govern the country. Who knew?
Zachlipton, your 12:00am comment should be an op-ed in the NYTimes so that more people could get the chance to read it. What a travesty this administration is, what a farce. Amazing how a great country like America could be brought so low by one senile old man with a massive, all-consuming ego.
There were a number of times during the election when I was sure he would drop out. I knew how difficult the job is and I also knew that he was not used to working that hard. Why would a pampered Billionaire want to make life so difficult for himself when at 70 he has so few years left? Obviously the power was the attraction but I reasoned that ultimately he would hate spending that much time sitting through boring briefings and being forced to think about things other than himself and his own businesses. What I forgot to factor in was his sheer ignorance.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:55 AM on April 28, 2017 [30 favorites]
Zachlipton, your 12:00am comment should be an op-ed in the NYTimes so that more people could get the chance to read it. What a travesty this administration is, what a farce. Amazing how a great country like America could be brought so low by one senile old man with a massive, all-consuming ego.
There were a number of times during the election when I was sure he would drop out. I knew how difficult the job is and I also knew that he was not used to working that hard. Why would a pampered Billionaire want to make life so difficult for himself when at 70 he has so few years left? Obviously the power was the attraction but I reasoned that ultimately he would hate spending that much time sitting through boring briefings and being forced to think about things other than himself and his own businesses. What I forgot to factor in was his sheer ignorance.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:55 AM on April 28, 2017 [30 favorites]
> Amazing how a great country like America could be brought so low by one senile old man with a massive, all-consuming ego.
Trump is a symptom, not the cause.
posted by moody cow at 5:05 AM on April 28, 2017 [42 favorites]
Trump is a symptom, not the cause.
posted by moody cow at 5:05 AM on April 28, 2017 [42 favorites]
CNBC: Pay attention to the man behind the curtain: Trump is no wizard of government: In the Oval Office, in fact, Trump looks less like Superman and more like Professor Marvel in that "Wizard of Oz" scene when Dorothy peers behind the curtain to see that Oz isn't so great and powerful after all. Trump is a talented salesman with the world's biggest microphone, but he has no experience making government work and precious few aides to help him learn how.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:11 AM on April 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:11 AM on April 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
Or, to put it another way:
@drgonzo123: There is no man behind the curtain, there is no curtain, heck, there isn’t even a man. There’s just raw, unrefined stupidity.
posted by Artw at 5:15 AM on April 28, 2017 [26 favorites]
@drgonzo123: There is no man behind the curtain, there is no curtain, heck, there isn’t even a man. There’s just raw, unrefined stupidity.
posted by Artw at 5:15 AM on April 28, 2017 [26 favorites]
If/when all of this is eventually over, I want a constitutional amendment requiring presidents to have held at least elected office before.
At a bare minimum they should be able to pass an eighth-grade civics final exam. Without an aide in the room to coach them through the answers.
I do think this should actually part of the cycle next time - some news organization should set up an event where they give the candidates such a test and publish the results.
AND IT SHOULD BE ESSAY, NOT MULTIPLE GUESS.
posted by winna at 5:27 AM on April 28, 2017 [29 favorites]
At a bare minimum they should be able to pass an eighth-grade civics final exam. Without an aide in the room to coach them through the answers.
I do think this should actually part of the cycle next time - some news organization should set up an event where they give the candidates such a test and publish the results.
AND IT SHOULD BE ESSAY, NOT MULTIPLE GUESS.
posted by winna at 5:27 AM on April 28, 2017 [29 favorites]
I love the detail that he keeps handing out copies of his electoral win map to reporters. Winning the election was the only thing that he's accomplished so it's the only thing he has to talk about.
posted by octothorpe at 5:28 AM on April 28, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 5:28 AM on April 28, 2017 [12 favorites]
Trump is a talented salesman
Six casino/hotel bankruptcies, Trump Steaks, Trump Airlines, Trump magazine, Trump University, etc. etc. after getting the equivalent of of a $31m loan from his father to start, then inheriting hundreds of millions upon his death and managing to significantly underperform the S&P for decades would argue otherwise.
posted by chris24 at 5:29 AM on April 28, 2017 [54 favorites]
Six casino/hotel bankruptcies, Trump Steaks, Trump Airlines, Trump magazine, Trump University, etc. etc. after getting the equivalent of of a $31m loan from his father to start, then inheriting hundreds of millions upon his death and managing to significantly underperform the S&P for decades would argue otherwise.
posted by chris24 at 5:29 AM on April 28, 2017 [54 favorites]
And yet an awful lot of Americans are _still buying all he's selling_. He knows his target audience pretty well.
posted by delfin at 5:35 AM on April 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by delfin at 5:35 AM on April 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
Reporters should start handing back cartograms.
posted by nat at 5:36 AM on April 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by nat at 5:36 AM on April 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
Amazing how a great country like America could be brought so low by one senile old man with a massive, all-consuming ego.
The entire Republican party endorsed him, is pretending he's a normal president, is covering for his treason with Russia, works to actually implement whatever insanity he tweets, and is using him to pass worse policies than even Trump can dream up.
The problem is not Trump. It's always been Republicans.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:38 AM on April 28, 2017 [82 favorites]
The entire Republican party endorsed him, is pretending he's a normal president, is covering for his treason with Russia, works to actually implement whatever insanity he tweets, and is using him to pass worse policies than even Trump can dream up.
The problem is not Trump. It's always been Republicans.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:38 AM on April 28, 2017 [82 favorites]
Six casino/hotel bankruptcies, Trump Steaks, Trump Airlines, Trump magazine, Trump University, etc. etc. after getting the equivalent of of a $31m loan from his father to start, then inheriting hundreds of millions upon his death and managing to significantly underperform the S&P for decades would argue otherwise.
Yeah, let it never be forgotten that Trump is the epitome of a guy born on 3rd base who thinks he hit a triple. He started life privileged to a degree that even total failure could only have brought him down to the low state of being merely wealthy instead of obscenely so.
posted by tocts at 5:40 AM on April 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
Yeah, let it never be forgotten that Trump is the epitome of a guy born on 3rd base who thinks he hit a triple. He started life privileged to a degree that even total failure could only have brought him down to the low state of being merely wealthy instead of obscenely so.
posted by tocts at 5:40 AM on April 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
He started life privileged to a degree that even total failure could only have brought him down to the low state of being merely wealthy instead of obscenely so.
He would've been ruined but for a bailout by the Russian criminal underworld. The only thing he's ever been good at is pimping his name, and conning other people into giving him money for zero returns.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:46 AM on April 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
He would've been ruined but for a bailout by the Russian criminal underworld. The only thing he's ever been good at is pimping his name, and conning other people into giving him money for zero returns.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:46 AM on April 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
Well, zero public returns. Who knows what quo pro Russia is getting now.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:47 AM on April 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:47 AM on April 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Collusion
Collusion is an agreement between two or more parties, sometimes illegal and therefore secretive, to limit open competition by deceiving, misleading, or defrauding others of their legal rights, or to obtain an objective forbidden by law typically by defrauding or gaining an unfair market advantage.
It is an agreement among firms or individuals to divide a market, set prices, limit production or limit opportunities. It can involve "wage fixing, kickbacks, or misrepresenting the independence of the relationship between the colluding parties". In legal terms, all acts effected by collusion are considered void.
posted by petebest at 5:47 AM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Collusion is an agreement between two or more parties, sometimes illegal and therefore secretive, to limit open competition by deceiving, misleading, or defrauding others of their legal rights, or to obtain an objective forbidden by law typically by defrauding or gaining an unfair market advantage.
It is an agreement among firms or individuals to divide a market, set prices, limit production or limit opportunities. It can involve "wage fixing, kickbacks, or misrepresenting the independence of the relationship between the colluding parties". In legal terms, all acts effected by collusion are considered void.
posted by petebest at 5:47 AM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
I've been slightly uncomfortable with some of the references to Trump suffering from Alzheimer's in some of these threads, but reading the transcript of that Toronto Star interview above made me think that he actually may be at the mercy of a gang of mercenary ideologues who are fully aware that he doesn't really understand what is going on in the world around him. It is of course utterly terrifying. Just this snippet, among many, for example:
'So the Republican Party has various groups, all great people. They’re great people. But some are moderate, some are very conservative. The Democrats don’t seem to have that nearly as much. You know the Democrats have, they don’t have that. The Republicans do have that. And I think it’s fine. But you know there’s a pretty vast area in there. And I have a great relationship with all of them. Now, we have government not closing. I think we’ll be in great shape on that. It’s going very well.'
posted by Myeral at 5:53 AM on April 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
'So the Republican Party has various groups, all great people. They’re great people. But some are moderate, some are very conservative. The Democrats don’t seem to have that nearly as much. You know the Democrats have, they don’t have that. The Republicans do have that. And I think it’s fine. But you know there’s a pretty vast area in there. And I have a great relationship with all of them. Now, we have government not closing. I think we’ll be in great shape on that. It’s going very well.'
posted by Myeral at 5:53 AM on April 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
I think a lot of Americans wouldn't think that being president would be a hard job, because a lot of Americans don't believe in ambiguity or complexity, don't trust expertise or overthinking things, and think that all problems are best solved with a combination of decisiveness and common sense, both of which they believe are fundamentally white, masculine attributes. All that a proper white guy would need to do to be president would be to show up and follow his manly white dude instincts. We're a really anti-intellectual culture.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:00 AM on April 28, 2017 [52 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:00 AM on April 28, 2017 [52 favorites]
More ego injury for Donny.
Trump's 1st economic report card: Slowest growth in 3 years
Trump's 1st economic report card: Slowest growth in 3 years
The US economy started 2017 at a sluggish pace. It only grew at an annual pace of 0.7% in the first three months of the year, according to the Commerce Department's report on gross domestic product, the broadest measure of economic activity. It was the slowest quarter of growth since the first quarter of 2014.posted by chris24 at 6:05 AM on April 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
Weak consumer spending was the main culprit for the anemic growth, which has become routine for the US economy since the Great Recession ended in 2009. Since then, the US has averaged about 2% annual growth.
President Trump has promised to end the slow-growth narrative. Initially during his campaign he pledged to create 4% growth, something not seen since the late 1990s.
That's what pulling up the ladders does, yes.
posted by Artw at 6:07 AM on April 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:07 AM on April 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yeah, let it never be forgotten that Trump is the epitome of a guy born on 3rd base who thinks he hit a triple.
Trump was born in the dugout, looked at the scoreboard to see the score was 4-0, and said "I hit a grand slam!"
posted by Etrigan at 6:08 AM on April 28, 2017 [51 favorites]
Trump was born in the dugout, looked at the scoreboard to see the score was 4-0, and said "I hit a grand slam!"
posted by Etrigan at 6:08 AM on April 28, 2017 [51 favorites]
Yeah, let it never be forgotten that Trump is the epitome of a guy born on 3rd base who thinks he hit a triple.
Trump was born in the dugout, looked at the scoreboard to see the score was 4-0, and said "I hit a grand slam!"
Ha, was just gonna say Trump was born on third and yells "home run!"
posted by chris24 at 6:10 AM on April 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
Trump was born in the dugout, looked at the scoreboard to see the score was 4-0, and said "I hit a grand slam!"
Ha, was just gonna say Trump was born on third and yells "home run!"
posted by chris24 at 6:10 AM on April 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
NYT: Justices Alarmed by Government’s Hard-Line Stance in Citizenship Case
I make a point of telling Americans precisely what I had to do to get residency because frankly they are clueless about what they put immigrants through. Particularly, how they treat spouses of visa holders.
posted by srboisvert at 6:14 AM on April 28, 2017 [18 favorites]
I make a point of telling Americans precisely what I had to do to get residency because frankly they are clueless about what they put immigrants through. Particularly, how they treat spouses of visa holders.
posted by srboisvert at 6:14 AM on April 28, 2017 [18 favorites]
Weak consumer spending was the main culprit for the anemic growth, which has become routine for the US economy since the Great Recession ended in 2009. Since then, the US has averaged about 2% annual growth.
And this despite liberals going full-survivalist and stocking up their bug out bags and putting 4 years of rations in their basements.
posted by srboisvert at 6:16 AM on April 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
And this despite liberals going full-survivalist and stocking up their bug out bags and putting 4 years of rations in their basements.
posted by srboisvert at 6:16 AM on April 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
PPP Polls: Since polls of just Trump voters are a thing, here's a poll of just people who voted for the top vote getter: [pdf]
-Only 2% of Clinton voters think Trump has 'Made America Great Again,' 93% say he has not
-Only 8% of Clinton voters want to repeal the Affordable Care Act, 82% say keep it and make fixes as necessary
-91% of Clinton voters think Trump is dishonest, only 6% think he's honest
-90% of Clinton voters think Trump should release his tax returns, only 6% don't think it's necessary for him to
-Only 5% of Clinton voters support the wall with Mexico, 92% are opposed to it
-65% of Clinton voters think Trump will get the US into World War III during his Presidency, 17% don't think he will
-69% of Clinton voters think Trump's team directly coordinated with Russia to sway the election in his favor
-And 84% want an independent investigation into Russia's involvement in the election, and ties to Trump aides
posted by melissasaurus at 6:27 AM on April 28, 2017 [66 favorites]
-Only 2% of Clinton voters think Trump has 'Made America Great Again,' 93% say he has not
-Only 8% of Clinton voters want to repeal the Affordable Care Act, 82% say keep it and make fixes as necessary
-91% of Clinton voters think Trump is dishonest, only 6% think he's honest
-90% of Clinton voters think Trump should release his tax returns, only 6% don't think it's necessary for him to
-Only 5% of Clinton voters support the wall with Mexico, 92% are opposed to it
-65% of Clinton voters think Trump will get the US into World War III during his Presidency, 17% don't think he will
-69% of Clinton voters think Trump's team directly coordinated with Russia to sway the election in his favor
-And 84% want an independent investigation into Russia's involvement in the election, and ties to Trump aides
posted by melissasaurus at 6:27 AM on April 28, 2017 [66 favorites]
Trump hatched on third base, looked around him, declared himself the greatest point guard ever, big league, tried to buy the visiting dugout and put his name on its roof, demanded to be named quarterback, put on bowling shoes, then yelled that it's not fair that no one will let him score a touchdown with the hockey ball.
But he got by because he gets 17% of the Russian popcorn syndicate profits in the stadium.
posted by delfin at 6:29 AM on April 28, 2017 [17 favorites]
But he got by because he gets 17% of the Russian popcorn syndicate profits in the stadium.
posted by delfin at 6:29 AM on April 28, 2017 [17 favorites]
Lewandowski’s firm appears to offer Trump meetings
It's not really possible to be more blatantly corrupt.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:31 AM on April 28, 2017 [23 favorites]
It's not really possible to be more blatantly corrupt.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:31 AM on April 28, 2017 [23 favorites]
I want to talk to the 2% of Clinton voters who believe that Trump has done anything. Who are these people? I don't believe they exist, they just had to make it not 100%.
posted by Sophie1 at 6:33 AM on April 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Sophie1 at 6:33 AM on April 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
Yeah, let it never be forgotten that Trump is the epitome of a guy born on 3rd base who thinks he hit a triple.
He underperformed the S&P. This is a man who was born on third, loudly proclaimed he'd hit a triple, then jogged back to second while the infield stared in disbelief. No one thought to throw him out at second because they don't coach you on what to do when you're playing against people who are head-trauma crazy.
posted by Mayor West at 6:34 AM on April 28, 2017 [44 favorites]
He underperformed the S&P. This is a man who was born on third, loudly proclaimed he'd hit a triple, then jogged back to second while the infield stared in disbelief. No one thought to throw him out at second because they don't coach you on what to do when you're playing against people who are head-trauma crazy.
posted by Mayor West at 6:34 AM on April 28, 2017 [44 favorites]
Lewandowski’s firm appears to offer Trump meetings
Ironically, Hillary appears to be the only one in Election 2016 who isn't actually crooked.
posted by chris24 at 6:36 AM on April 28, 2017 [15 favorites]
Ironically, Hillary appears to be the only one in Election 2016 who isn't actually crooked.
posted by chris24 at 6:36 AM on April 28, 2017 [15 favorites]
In this President are combined a child's sense of wonder, and the naïveté of a child. And the playful desire for mischief-making of a child. And a child's ignorance of domestic policy and of global affairs. A child's propensity for violent outbursts of rage. The lack of tethering to any ideological grounding or devotion to scientific truth or interlocutory coherence, of a child. The diet of a child. A child's love for big trucks, and for their horns that go honk, honk. One could say there is something... almost child-like about this President.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:36 AM on April 28, 2017 [43 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:36 AM on April 28, 2017 [43 favorites]
Something worthy of the title "plan" for something that impacts every person in the country ought to compare favorably in detail to a CVS receipt.
The tweet text:
ON LEFT: Trumps 1 page tax reform plan for our entire country
ON RIGHT: my CVS receipt for lightbulbs and a frozen pizza
Yes, in 2017 I will accept political commentary from someone clearly planning on cooking frozen pizza in an easy bake oven. It's a big tent!
posted by srboisvert at 6:37 AM on April 28, 2017 [18 favorites]
The tweet text:
ON LEFT: Trumps 1 page tax reform plan for our entire country
ON RIGHT: my CVS receipt for lightbulbs and a frozen pizza
Yes, in 2017 I will accept political commentary from someone clearly planning on cooking frozen pizza in an easy bake oven. It's a big tent!
posted by srboisvert at 6:37 AM on April 28, 2017 [18 favorites]
"Here, you can take that, that's the final map of the numbers," the Republican president said from his desk in the Oval Office, handing out maps of the United States with areas he won marked in red. "It’s pretty good, right? The red is obviously us."
He had copies for each of the three Reuters reporters in the room.
What - the Time magazines with him on the cover aren't good enough anymore?.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:38 AM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
He had copies for each of the three Reuters reporters in the room.
What - the Time magazines with him on the cover aren't good enough anymore?.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:38 AM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
No one thought to throw him out at second because they don't coach you on what to do when you're playing against people who are head-trauma crazy.
If this was true, no one would ever bat against Brian Wilson.
posted by delfin at 6:41 AM on April 28, 2017
If this was true, no one would ever bat against Brian Wilson.
posted by delfin at 6:41 AM on April 28, 2017
One could say there is something... almost child-like about this President.
"Child-like", no. "Childish", on the other hand, seems very, very appropriate.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:48 AM on April 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
"Child-like", no. "Childish", on the other hand, seems very, very appropriate.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:48 AM on April 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
lot of people seem to be saying that trump's first hundred days are a disappointment, but I look around and he has not yet fully catalyzed the destruction of the earth to smoldering ash so he knocked this one out of the park as far as I'm concerned
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:52 AM on April 28, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:52 AM on April 28, 2017 [21 favorites]
Do other countries go through this type of thing? Where political parties are so at odds with each other (and their constituents) that they let the government literally shut down for a while?
In parlimentary systems it would result in a vote of non-confidence which dissolves the government and requires new elections.
posted by srboisvert at 6:53 AM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
In parlimentary systems it would result in a vote of non-confidence which dissolves the government and requires new elections.
posted by srboisvert at 6:53 AM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
yeah, we have our own special way of dissolving the government, so take that parliamentary systems!
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 6:59 AM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 6:59 AM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
I hateread Andrew Sullivan so that you don't have to.
Maybe America Wasn’t Crazy to Elect Donald Trump
Article starts with "well, maybe being the ruling party will shock this authoritarian party back to their senses!' bullshit with lacings of UGH HILLZ AMIRITE nonsense, moves on to an inane analysis of the French election, and ends discussion of his feelings on camp/Feud/the Real Housewives franchise.
At least he didn't end this article with another racist-on-two-fronts-at-once conclusion about how America would stop being hating black people if only they acted more like Asians.
posted by joyceanmachine at 7:00 AM on April 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
Maybe America Wasn’t Crazy to Elect Donald Trump
Article starts with "well, maybe being the ruling party will shock this authoritarian party back to their senses!' bullshit with lacings of UGH HILLZ AMIRITE nonsense, moves on to an inane analysis of the French election, and ends discussion of his feelings on camp/Feud/the Real Housewives franchise.
At least he didn't end this article with another racist-on-two-fronts-at-once conclusion about how America would stop being hating black people if only they acted more like Asians.
posted by joyceanmachine at 7:00 AM on April 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
The Wisconsin legislature has come up with an awesome plan to protect freedom of speech at state universities by expelling protesters.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:06 AM on April 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:06 AM on April 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
reading the transcript of that Toronto Star interview above made me think that he actually may be at the mercy of a gang of mercenary ideologues who are fully aware that he doesn't really understand what is going on in the world around him.
I've said this before, but my mom has Alzheimer's and suffers from Dementia, and my only priority is keeping her safe, comfortable, and free from worry. The fact that his children are part of that gang of mercenaries is the worst indictment of their character. They are indefensible.
There’s just raw, unrefined stupidity.
To borrow a phrase from the TV show, Fargo, there's just "unfathomable pinhead-ery."
posted by Room 641-A at 7:13 AM on April 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
I've said this before, but my mom has Alzheimer's and suffers from Dementia, and my only priority is keeping her safe, comfortable, and free from worry. The fact that his children are part of that gang of mercenaries is the worst indictment of their character. They are indefensible.
There’s just raw, unrefined stupidity.
To borrow a phrase from the TV show, Fargo, there's just "unfathomable pinhead-ery."
posted by Room 641-A at 7:13 AM on April 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
Tyler Cowen, Bloomberg: U.S. Can Afford Trump's Radical Tax Cut
The simplest way to think of an unfunded corporate tax cut is that the federal government has to borrow more money, say at rates in the range of 1 percent to 2 percent, while corporations have more money to invest. Estimates vary for the rate of return on private capital, but 5 percent to 10 percent is one plausible estimate. So in essence, society is borrowing money at 1 to 2 percent and may be receiving 5 to 10 percent in return. That is a net gain, not an economic cost.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:14 AM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
In terms of distribution, the deal is more favorable than it might appear at first. The increase in borrowing will eventually be paid for, and the top 20 percent of Americans pay about 84 percent of all income taxes. The future payback therefore is likely to come from the well-off, not the poor. The new corporate investments will also create jobs and some valuable products as well, and that benefits more people than just the wealthy.
The pessimist might wonder whether companies would take their windfall and invest it at all. Many companies might simply hold the gain in money management accounts. In this scenario, the tax plan probably won’t be worth passing, as American companies would have nothing useful to do with the free resources, even when given a nudge to invest. That should induce a fairly panicky response, including radical deregulation of business and fiscal austerity on entitlements, but I don’t see critics of the tax plan following up on this view consistently.
The Wisconsin legislature has come up with an awesome plan to protect freedom of speech at state universities by expelling protesters.
So we're clear:
-Raping another student: no discipline
-Advocating rape: "free speech"
-Protesting rape advocates: expulsion
posted by melissasaurus at 7:14 AM on April 28, 2017 [80 favorites]
So we're clear:
-Raping another student: no discipline
-Advocating rape: "free speech"
-Protesting rape advocates: expulsion
posted by melissasaurus at 7:14 AM on April 28, 2017 [80 favorites]
Instead, we have a manifest and brutal exposure of the stark promises Trump made, and of the incoherence and shallowness of so much of the Republican agenda
Yeah, that seems like a solid plan. We didn't learn the lesson after we elected Reagan and he gutted the social safety net, and we didn't learn it after we elected Bush II and he started a bunch of hopeless wars and spent ten trillion dollars killing a bunch of brown people, but THIS time, we'll definitely sit up and take notice that we've put Toonces the Driving Cat behind the wheel, and it'll DEFINITELY spell the long-awaited demise of the Republican party.
posted by Mayor West at 7:15 AM on April 28, 2017 [22 favorites]
Yeah, that seems like a solid plan. We didn't learn the lesson after we elected Reagan and he gutted the social safety net, and we didn't learn it after we elected Bush II and he started a bunch of hopeless wars and spent ten trillion dollars killing a bunch of brown people, but THIS time, we'll definitely sit up and take notice that we've put Toonces the Driving Cat behind the wheel, and it'll DEFINITELY spell the long-awaited demise of the Republican party.
posted by Mayor West at 7:15 AM on April 28, 2017 [22 favorites]
if catastrophe doesn’t strike, it might even be better for the future health of our politics that Clinton is not president.
Yes it is good to have Presidents who may cause catastrophe, because it will make people realize their policies are bad. Alex Jones / A Rabid Grizzly Bear 2020
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:20 AM on April 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
Yes it is good to have Presidents who may cause catastrophe, because it will make people realize their policies are bad. Alex Jones / A Rabid Grizzly Bear 2020
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:20 AM on April 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
Ephrat Livni, Quartz: An astrophysicist used NASA data to make an insanely detailed map of US racial diversity
(putting this here because it dovetails nicely with the discussion about rural vs. urban; someone else is welcome to make a FPP about this remarkable project)
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:21 AM on April 28, 2017 [19 favorites]
(putting this here because it dovetails nicely with the discussion about rural vs. urban; someone else is welcome to make a FPP about this remarkable project)
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:21 AM on April 28, 2017 [19 favorites]
Are Andrew Sullivan and Slavoj Žižek in agreement on something? Emphasize the contradiction!
You know, European peace really wasn't solid until a grand conflagration massacred a whole generation. Why don't we try that again, so we can reproduce the peace and prosperity of the post-war period?
Fucking edgelords.
posted by dis_integration at 7:24 AM on April 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
You know, European peace really wasn't solid until a grand conflagration massacred a whole generation. Why don't we try that again, so we can reproduce the peace and prosperity of the post-war period?
Fucking edgelords.
posted by dis_integration at 7:24 AM on April 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
LGBT Republicans defend Trump’s first 100 days with delusions: Speaking to the Washington Blade, LCR president Gregory T. Angelo shrugged off the so-called “non-troversies” about anti-LGBT actions the Trump administration has taken, calling them “fundraising ploys to rile up dejected LGBT liberals still reeling from Hillary Clinton’s loss.”
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:33 AM on April 28, 2017
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:33 AM on April 28, 2017
Tyler Cowen, Bloomberg: U.S. Can Afford Trump's Radical Tax Cut
Something there tickled my memory, and sure enough... while Cowen has a good academic background, he's director of the Mercatus Center at George Mason University, which is darn close to a wholly-owned subsidiary (details about halfway down) of the Koch brothers' empire.
I only had a couple of grad-school economics courses, but I call BS on the idea that it's just fine for the government to borrow money and run greater budget deficits just to cut taxes for the wealthy, even if (as he puts it) the rich will someday pay for that borrowing.
One, never underestimate the power of the wealthy and connected to shift tax burdens back onto everyone else. And two, Cowen conveniently stays in the realm of economic theory and overlooks recent real-world history on how politicians and governments behave. Confronted with budget deficits, politicians won't be content to sit back and let them accumulate. They'll slash spending on social services -- and it's not his heroic "top 20 percent of Americans" who will pay that cost.
grrrrrr. *blood boiling*
posted by martin q blank at 7:34 AM on April 28, 2017 [25 favorites]
Something there tickled my memory, and sure enough... while Cowen has a good academic background, he's director of the Mercatus Center at George Mason University, which is darn close to a wholly-owned subsidiary (details about halfway down) of the Koch brothers' empire.
I only had a couple of grad-school economics courses, but I call BS on the idea that it's just fine for the government to borrow money and run greater budget deficits just to cut taxes for the wealthy, even if (as he puts it) the rich will someday pay for that borrowing.
One, never underestimate the power of the wealthy and connected to shift tax burdens back onto everyone else. And two, Cowen conveniently stays in the realm of economic theory and overlooks recent real-world history on how politicians and governments behave. Confronted with budget deficits, politicians won't be content to sit back and let them accumulate. They'll slash spending on social services -- and it's not his heroic "top 20 percent of Americans" who will pay that cost.
grrrrrr. *blood boiling*
posted by martin q blank at 7:34 AM on April 28, 2017 [25 favorites]
The pessimist might wonder whether companies would take their windfall and invest it at all. Many companies might simply hold the gain in money management accounts. In this scenario, the tax plan probably won’t be worth passing, as American companies would have nothing useful to do with the free resources, even when given a nudge to invest. That should induce a fairly panicky response, including radical deregulation of business and fiscal austerity on entitlements, but I don’t see critics of the tax plan following up on this view consistently.
How are people supposed to buy shit if companies have all the money locked up in money market accounts? When the government taxes stuff the receipts don't sit there in an account. It goes straight back out to people causing direct economic activity.
Which do you prefer to happen?
posted by Talez at 7:36 AM on April 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
How are people supposed to buy shit if companies have all the money locked up in money market accounts? When the government taxes stuff the receipts don't sit there in an account. It goes straight back out to people causing direct economic activity.
Which do you prefer to happen?
posted by Talez at 7:36 AM on April 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
Yeah, I have trouble buying an argument that boils down to, "corporate tax cuts are the same as government stimulus programs because if you give the money to corporations, they could use it to provide jobs too!".
Yeah. They could. They're not required to, though, and if history tells us anything it's far more likely to end up padding CEO salaries.
posted by tocts at 7:39 AM on April 28, 2017 [18 favorites]
Yeah. They could. They're not required to, though, and if history tells us anything it's far more likely to end up padding CEO salaries.
posted by tocts at 7:39 AM on April 28, 2017 [18 favorites]
MSNBC's make over to FOX News-lite continues, they're promoting Nicolle Wallace to her own show. When FOX goes under, never fear, MSNBC will be there to hire everyone who worked for FOX.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:41 AM on April 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:41 AM on April 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
Tyler Cowen is very smart and worth following on Twitter for his observational stuff but he also is in love with his own contrarian voice. He exists to be a polemicist. Occasionally he is even right.
posted by readery at 7:43 AM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by readery at 7:43 AM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yeah. They could. They're not required to, though, and if history tells us anything it's far more likely to end up padding CEO salaries.
It's too bad we don't have thirty years of data on what the Reagan-era tax cuts do to tax revenues and corporate spending. Then we could know whether businesses are likely to use their tax savings to spur investment, or whether they will sit on their lucre like Smaug on his pile of gold, forcing interest rates up and locking the middle class out of borrowing.
Nope, totally unknowable.
posted by Mayor West at 7:45 AM on April 28, 2017 [50 favorites]
It's too bad we don't have thirty years of data on what the Reagan-era tax cuts do to tax revenues and corporate spending. Then we could know whether businesses are likely to use their tax savings to spur investment, or whether they will sit on their lucre like Smaug on his pile of gold, forcing interest rates up and locking the middle class out of borrowing.
Nope, totally unknowable.
posted by Mayor West at 7:45 AM on April 28, 2017 [50 favorites]
MSNBC's used to employ Alan Keyes, Pat Buchanan and Tucker Carlson so it's not like being FOX-lite is new for them.
posted by octothorpe at 7:45 AM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by octothorpe at 7:45 AM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
And, until very recently, MSNBC also employed Nicole Wallace.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:50 AM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Room 641-A at 7:50 AM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
So, Cowan's main point is that 1% borrowing will more than pay for itself with 5-10% (hah!) growth? Wow, sounds great, sign me up.
Oh wait ... that's US borrowing, so that we can give money to the wealthy and corporate Americans. That's a little different, but surely they'll let some of it trickle down, right? Totally worth it!
But oh wait, we already tried that, and we know it doesn't work, right? No matter, it's ok for them because they'll get to become deficit hawks and trot out AUSTERITY again, so that we can all suffer the punishment of "our" greed.
It's a self-perpetuating cycle: unfunded tax cuts, money to the rich, deficit crisis, AUSTERITY, must need more tax cuts then ...
posted by Dashy at 7:52 AM on April 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
Oh wait ... that's US borrowing, so that we can give money to the wealthy and corporate Americans. That's a little different, but surely they'll let some of it trickle down, right? Totally worth it!
But oh wait, we already tried that, and we know it doesn't work, right? No matter, it's ok for them because they'll get to become deficit hawks and trot out AUSTERITY again, so that we can all suffer the punishment of "our" greed.
It's a self-perpetuating cycle: unfunded tax cuts, money to the rich, deficit crisis, AUSTERITY, must need more tax cuts then ...
posted by Dashy at 7:52 AM on April 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
Yeah. They could. They're not required to, though, and if history tells us anything it's far more likely to end up padding CEO salaries.
Recent history tells us the multinationals will shop for the country with the lowest and possibly zero corporate tax and move all their profits there. Then they will wait patiently for the inevitable tax amnesty deal - which at this point would probably involve actually paying them money in order to return the capital to the U.S.
posted by srboisvert at 8:00 AM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Recent history tells us the multinationals will shop for the country with the lowest and possibly zero corporate tax and move all their profits there. Then they will wait patiently for the inevitable tax amnesty deal - which at this point would probably involve actually paying them money in order to return the capital to the U.S.
posted by srboisvert at 8:00 AM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Group launches website to help women perform their own medication abortions.
posted by emjaybee at 8:21 AM on April 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 8:21 AM on April 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
WaPo: A noncriminal mother of four was deported. Now in Mexico, she fears for her safety. In the days since she was deported to her native Mexico, the 42-year-old Ohio mother said she has already received threats. She hardly eats, and has trouble sleeping, she told The Washington Post. The risks are all too real for her family in Mexico’s gang-ridden west coast state of Michoacán — both her father and her brother have been kidnapped in recent years, and her mother extorted.
But Trujillo’s concerns over the dangers in her new home pale in comparison with her worries about her four children, including her epileptic 3-year-old daughter, who are living without her, far north of the border. She spoke to The Washington Post on Thursday in her first interview since her deportation.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:30 AM on April 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
But Trujillo’s concerns over the dangers in her new home pale in comparison with her worries about her four children, including her epileptic 3-year-old daughter, who are living without her, far north of the border. She spoke to The Washington Post on Thursday in her first interview since her deportation.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:30 AM on April 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
Fucking edgelords.
Apparently Brett Easton Ellis has recently discovered Milo Yiannopoulos lately and thinks he's fucking awesome, so there's that.
posted by Artw at 8:37 AM on April 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
Apparently Brett Easton Ellis has recently discovered Milo Yiannopoulos lately and thinks he's fucking awesome, so there's that.
posted by Artw at 8:37 AM on April 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
And, until very recently, MSNBC also employed Nicole Wallace.
Very recently = this week, in fact.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:39 AM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Very recently = this week, in fact.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:39 AM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oh I though Globalist was just what these fuckfaces say when they can't say "jew" in that certain way.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 8:47 AM on April 28, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 8:47 AM on April 28, 2017 [16 favorites]
> Devonian: I can see what the Chief Justice is getting at, and of course I agree with his thrust, but I thought you only committed a criminal offence if a court finds you guilty? . . .
> So, if I'm asked on a form if I ever committed a criminal offence, I always answer no.
The question is very broad, and does not seem to contemplate the objections you are raising:
Have you EVER committed, assisted in committing, or attempted to commit, a crime or offense for which you were NOT arrested?
Full naturalization form here on the USCIS web site.
posted by flug at 8:48 AM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
> So, if I'm asked on a form if I ever committed a criminal offence, I always answer no.
The question is very broad, and does not seem to contemplate the objections you are raising:
Have you EVER committed, assisted in committing, or attempted to commit, a crime or offense for which you were NOT arrested?
Full naturalization form here on the USCIS web site.
posted by flug at 8:48 AM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Very recently = this week, in fact.
Heh. I stopped watching cable news on election night. I'm still figuring out that whole object permanence thing.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:50 AM on April 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
Heh. I stopped watching cable news on election night. I'm still figuring out that whole object permanence thing.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:50 AM on April 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
The simplest way to think of an unfunded corporate tax cut is...
...as trickle-down economics. There, saved you guys some reading.
And while there IS a place for that in the economic tool-box, now is not the time to use that tool. There is plenty of capital out there chasing returns, to create jobs you need to stimulate the DEMAND for those jobs which means stimulating DEMAND for the products of those jobs.
This shit bugs me because I know a thing or two about economics so I know that they know it's bullshit. But it sure does sound nice as a rationalization for having their taxes lowered.
posted by VTX at 8:52 AM on April 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
...as trickle-down economics. There, saved you guys some reading.
And while there IS a place for that in the economic tool-box, now is not the time to use that tool. There is plenty of capital out there chasing returns, to create jobs you need to stimulate the DEMAND for those jobs which means stimulating DEMAND for the products of those jobs.
This shit bugs me because I know a thing or two about economics so I know that they know it's bullshit. But it sure does sound nice as a rationalization for having their taxes lowered.
posted by VTX at 8:52 AM on April 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
I’m a nationalist and a globalist
Some enterprising reporter should spend an entire interview with Trump just asking him for his definition of various words and basic ideas.
posted by diogenes at 8:53 AM on April 28, 2017 [38 favorites]
Some enterprising reporter should spend an entire interview with Trump just asking him for his definition of various words and basic ideas.
posted by diogenes at 8:53 AM on April 28, 2017 [38 favorites]
But I needed even more people to nominate and I was running out of names.
Remember Trump refuses to nominate Democrats or NeverTrump Republicans, so his choices are severely limited. Most people with actual government experience are one or the other.
posted by corb at 8:55 AM on April 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
Remember Trump refuses to nominate Democrats or NeverTrump Republicans, so his choices are severely limited. Most people with actual government experience are one or the other.
posted by corb at 8:55 AM on April 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
I'm sure 45 can be a globalist at breakfast and a nationalist after lunch. He is a man unhindered by logic, consistency (that hobgoblin of small minds) or philosophy. So in that sense, he is being entirely truthful. That one statement - unless it was followed by some Zen twist showing how the contradiction is in fact supportive of a greater truth - proves it.
You may ask yourself how such a man is fit to discharge the duties of his office. In his mind, which is incapable of framing paradox, the question would never arise nor, if it did, have any merit. But in any context where the question does have merit, the answer is clearly - he doesn't.
Which means, I think, that the greatest underlying crime currently being committed is Congress refusing to address this fact. And that, while the GOP has some excuse for ignoring this - a terrible, terrible excuse, but they are terrible, terrible people - the Dems really should be going for impeachment or the 25th a lot harder than they are, even if it's at some price to themselves.
This isn't a game. You don't get credit for winning at cribbage in the lounge of the Titanic.
posted by Devonian at 8:56 AM on April 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
You may ask yourself how such a man is fit to discharge the duties of his office. In his mind, which is incapable of framing paradox, the question would never arise nor, if it did, have any merit. But in any context where the question does have merit, the answer is clearly - he doesn't.
Which means, I think, that the greatest underlying crime currently being committed is Congress refusing to address this fact. And that, while the GOP has some excuse for ignoring this - a terrible, terrible excuse, but they are terrible, terrible people - the Dems really should be going for impeachment or the 25th a lot harder than they are, even if it's at some price to themselves.
This isn't a game. You don't get credit for winning at cribbage in the lounge of the Titanic.
posted by Devonian at 8:56 AM on April 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
It looks like the House has passed a CR. Haven't seen details yet, but it sounds like while it wasn't totally clean, there was nothing about THE WALL, and no stiffing of health care subsidies.
Another stunning victory for the Great Negotiator.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/28/politics/government-shutdown-vote/index.html
posted by jammer at 8:58 AM on April 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
Another stunning victory for the Great Negotiator.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/28/politics/government-shutdown-vote/index.html
posted by jammer at 8:58 AM on April 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
The question is very broad, and does not seem to contemplate the objections you are raising:
Have you EVER committed, assisted in committing, or attempted to commit, a crime or offense for which you were NOT arrested?
I don't think people realize that immigrants that become citizens are literally the cream of the crop. Most of the shit on an N-400 that would get your application tossed would get 3/4 of the US disqualified for citizenship.
posted by Talez at 8:58 AM on April 28, 2017 [38 favorites]
Have you EVER committed, assisted in committing, or attempted to commit, a crime or offense for which you were NOT arrested?
I don't think people realize that immigrants that become citizens are literally the cream of the crop. Most of the shit on an N-400 that would get your application tossed would get 3/4 of the US disqualified for citizenship.
posted by Talez at 8:58 AM on April 28, 2017 [38 favorites]
I called that ICE hotline and told them some illegal aliens stole my basketball skills. Sadly they couldn't put me in touch with Michael Jordan.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 9:00 AM on April 28, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 9:00 AM on April 28, 2017 [29 favorites]
The idea that corporate or top-tier tax cuts result in job growth is an outright scam. Its government proponents don't believe it. Business people don't believe it. Even the economists who came up with it don't believe it. But the masses do, and that's all that matters.
Let's say you run a company making widgets and there's a market demand of 10,000 widgets per month. Each worker can make 100 widgets per month so you hire 100 people and you meet demand and make a tidy profit for yourself and your shareholders. Now the government comes along and cuts your taxes. Do you hire more people with that money? No...why would you? Demand hasn't changed so any extra employees would be a waste. That extra profit is all yours, friend...go find yourself an offshore tax shelter to hide it in.
What the government really needs to do to grow jobs is try to increase demand, and it's not hard to do. There are millions of consumers out there bombarded by advertising who are convinced that they really want...no, NEED a new widget. The only thing stopping them is they can't afford it on their minimum-wage income. Put more money in their hands and they'll spend every penny of it on whatever widgets they can get their hands on.
You may need to add an extra shift just to keep up with that new demand.
posted by rocket88 at 9:10 AM on April 28, 2017 [37 favorites]
Let's say you run a company making widgets and there's a market demand of 10,000 widgets per month. Each worker can make 100 widgets per month so you hire 100 people and you meet demand and make a tidy profit for yourself and your shareholders. Now the government comes along and cuts your taxes. Do you hire more people with that money? No...why would you? Demand hasn't changed so any extra employees would be a waste. That extra profit is all yours, friend...go find yourself an offshore tax shelter to hide it in.
What the government really needs to do to grow jobs is try to increase demand, and it's not hard to do. There are millions of consumers out there bombarded by advertising who are convinced that they really want...no, NEED a new widget. The only thing stopping them is they can't afford it on their minimum-wage income. Put more money in their hands and they'll spend every penny of it on whatever widgets they can get their hands on.
You may need to add an extra shift just to keep up with that new demand.
posted by rocket88 at 9:10 AM on April 28, 2017 [37 favorites]
Trump To Appoint Anti-Abortion Leader Charmaine Yoest To Post At HHS
posted by melissasaurus at 9:11 AM on April 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 9:11 AM on April 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
I don't think people realize that immigrants that become citizens are literally the cream of the crop. Most of the shit on an N-400 that would get your application tossed would get 3/4 of the US disqualified for citizenship.
I think it's closer to 100%. I know nobody who would pass this test if applied strictly, across their lifetime. There are a zillion small offences out there that don't matter most of the time, or are so obscure nobody cares about them, or are routinely ignored by most of the population. Think about your teenage years.
My grandfather was a priest, and in his retirement he lived in quite a rough neighbourhood. He used to sit outside his house playing tunes on his penny whistle, to amuse the local kids, and he was much loved and respected for it.
I doubt he complied with public performance ordnances or copyright legislation.
posted by Devonian at 9:12 AM on April 28, 2017 [15 favorites]
I think it's closer to 100%. I know nobody who would pass this test if applied strictly, across their lifetime. There are a zillion small offences out there that don't matter most of the time, or are so obscure nobody cares about them, or are routinely ignored by most of the population. Think about your teenage years.
My grandfather was a priest, and in his retirement he lived in quite a rough neighbourhood. He used to sit outside his house playing tunes on his penny whistle, to amuse the local kids, and he was much loved and respected for it.
I doubt he complied with public performance ordnances or copyright legislation.
posted by Devonian at 9:12 AM on April 28, 2017 [15 favorites]
Playing to the base. Trump nominates anti-abortion leader Charmaine Yoest to assistant secretary of public affairs for Health and Human Services. She's the former president of Americans United for Life.
posted by kimdog at 9:15 AM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by kimdog at 9:15 AM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
while Cowen has a good academic background, he's director of the Mercatus Center at George Mason University, which is darn close to a wholly-owned subsidiary (details about halfway down) of the Koch brothers' empire.
This is a slight tangent to mention that the Charles Koch Foundation is the single largest donor to George Mason University. The school has become a focus point for right wing groups as part of their integrated strategy(pdf) in which corporate-funded academic research is published to create policy at right wing think tanks and lobby groups. Along with the Marcatus Center it also hosts the Institute for Humane Studies which acts as a libertarian cleaning house, and of course there's the Antonin Scalia Law School. Their economics, law, and public policy schools are heavily funded by the Kochs and aligned groups, for example, Trump's new "regulatory czar" is the director of the Center for the Study of the Administrative State at the Scalia Law School (chew on that name for a minute).
In 2014 GMU student groups began asking if the funding was provided with any provisions that would jeopardize the school's academic integrity, as it had at Florida State. After being stonewalled, students recently filed suit against their school seeking records related to Koch donations.
posted by peeedro at 9:16 AM on April 28, 2017 [29 favorites]
This is a slight tangent to mention that the Charles Koch Foundation is the single largest donor to George Mason University. The school has become a focus point for right wing groups as part of their integrated strategy(pdf) in which corporate-funded academic research is published to create policy at right wing think tanks and lobby groups. Along with the Marcatus Center it also hosts the Institute for Humane Studies which acts as a libertarian cleaning house, and of course there's the Antonin Scalia Law School. Their economics, law, and public policy schools are heavily funded by the Kochs and aligned groups, for example, Trump's new "regulatory czar" is the director of the Center for the Study of the Administrative State at the Scalia Law School (chew on that name for a minute).
In 2014 GMU student groups began asking if the funding was provided with any provisions that would jeopardize the school's academic integrity, as it had at Florida State. After being stonewalled, students recently filed suit against their school seeking records related to Koch donations.
posted by peeedro at 9:16 AM on April 28, 2017 [29 favorites]
Let's say you run a company making widgets and there's a market demand of 10,000 widgets per month. Each worker can make 100 widgets per month so you hire 100 people and you meet demand and make a tidy profit for yourself and your shareholders. Now the government comes along and cuts your taxes. Do you hire more people with that money? No...why would you? Demand hasn't changed so any extra employees would be a waste. That extra profit is all yours, friend...go find yourself an offshore tax shelter to hide it in.
Exactly. Who has ever heard a business owner say "I have some extra money I think I'll hire some new people"? No one. Because that'd be fucking stupid.
It's like when people say raising the minimum wage will cost jobs. You think a business owner gives out jobs for charity? They already have the minimal number of people covering for the work needed to be done. If I have two people working the late shift at a restaurant, one cooking, one working the counter/drive-through, hiking the minimum wage isn't going to make me fire one of them because I can't possibly fire either of them without sending the restaurant into an unworkable mess.
posted by Talez at 9:16 AM on April 28, 2017 [41 favorites]
Exactly. Who has ever heard a business owner say "I have some extra money I think I'll hire some new people"? No one. Because that'd be fucking stupid.
It's like when people say raising the minimum wage will cost jobs. You think a business owner gives out jobs for charity? They already have the minimal number of people covering for the work needed to be done. If I have two people working the late shift at a restaurant, one cooking, one working the counter/drive-through, hiking the minimum wage isn't going to make me fire one of them because I can't possibly fire either of them without sending the restaurant into an unworkable mess.
posted by Talez at 9:16 AM on April 28, 2017 [41 favorites]
(Ordinances, not ordnances. The neighbourhood wasn't THAT rough)
posted by Devonian at 9:20 AM on April 28, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 9:20 AM on April 28, 2017 [27 favorites]
Have you EVER committed, assisted in committing, or attempted to commit, a crime or offense for which you were NOT arrested?
Note, also, that it doesn't define what a "crime or offense" is. (Maybe this is elsewhere in relevant guidance?) But does that mean anything that the US government considers a crime or offense, or anything that was a crime or offense in the jurisdiction in which it occurred? Because the latter would mean a lot things like "was gay in a country that makes being gay illegal" or "was a woman who tried to enroll in school in a place where that was illegal" or "committed adultery in NYS."
posted by melissasaurus at 9:20 AM on April 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
Note, also, that it doesn't define what a "crime or offense" is. (Maybe this is elsewhere in relevant guidance?) But does that mean anything that the US government considers a crime or offense, or anything that was a crime or offense in the jurisdiction in which it occurred? Because the latter would mean a lot things like "was gay in a country that makes being gay illegal" or "was a woman who tried to enroll in school in a place where that was illegal" or "committed adultery in NYS."
posted by melissasaurus at 9:20 AM on April 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
The Senate has now also passed a one week continuing resolution. It now goes to, I still can't believe I'm typing this, President Trump for signature.
7 whole days! Great work everyone.
posted by zachlipton at 9:21 AM on April 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
7 whole days! Great work everyone.
posted by zachlipton at 9:21 AM on April 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
Exactly. Who has ever heard a business owner say "I have some extra money I think I'll hire some new people"? No one. Because that'd be fucking stupid.
The theory, of course, is that rational economic actors will reinvest windfall profits into expansion. But of course, why would they? I'd rather have an island villa in the Azores, myself.
It turns out, however that we know a much better way to incentivize businesses to invest their profits instead of pay them out in dividends and executive salaries. Tax them more. If you tax huge salaries and capital gains at exorbitant rates, executives will direct profits back into the business while settling for a large but not insane salary for themselves.
posted by dis_integration at 9:22 AM on April 28, 2017 [28 favorites]
The theory, of course, is that rational economic actors will reinvest windfall profits into expansion. But of course, why would they? I'd rather have an island villa in the Azores, myself.
It turns out, however that we know a much better way to incentivize businesses to invest their profits instead of pay them out in dividends and executive salaries. Tax them more. If you tax huge salaries and capital gains at exorbitant rates, executives will direct profits back into the business while settling for a large but not insane salary for themselves.
posted by dis_integration at 9:22 AM on April 28, 2017 [28 favorites]
Tyler Cowen is very smart and worth following on Twitter for his observational stuff but he also is in love with his own contrarian voice. He exists to be a polemicist. Occasionally he is even right.
I'm a bit fascinated by him because he is a voracious culture consumer - books, plays, movies and food - and yet he still manages to seem like an unfeeling and uncaring android.
posted by srboisvert at 9:23 AM on April 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
I'm a bit fascinated by him because he is a voracious culture consumer - books, plays, movies and food - and yet he still manages to seem like an unfeeling and uncaring android.
posted by srboisvert at 9:23 AM on April 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
Trump has indeed turned the government into a reality show. Every week there's a cliffhanger: will the whole thing get shut down? Tune in and see!
posted by emjaybee at 9:24 AM on April 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 9:24 AM on April 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
The theory, of course, is that rational economic actors will reinvest windfall profits into expansion.
If you think expanding your business will pay off in future profits then you should be doing it already. Interest rates are essentially zero. Borrow what you need.
posted by rocket88 at 9:26 AM on April 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
If you think expanding your business will pay off in future profits then you should be doing it already. Interest rates are essentially zero. Borrow what you need.
posted by rocket88 at 9:26 AM on April 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
It now goes to, I still can't believe I'm typing this, President Trump for signature.
On a Friday? They better hurry, it's almost time to get on the plane for golf weekend!
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 9:27 AM on April 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
On a Friday? They better hurry, it's almost time to get on the plane for golf weekend!
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 9:27 AM on April 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
This country's planted thick with laws from coast to coast -- man's laws, not God's.
They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And they absolutely will not stop... ever, until we are dead.
I can't convey how tickled I am to have both a Man for All Seasons reference and a Terminator reference within the first 90 minutes worth of comments on this thread.
posted by phearlez at 9:35 AM on April 28, 2017 [21 favorites]
They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And they absolutely will not stop... ever, until we are dead.
I can't convey how tickled I am to have both a Man for All Seasons reference and a Terminator reference within the first 90 minutes worth of comments on this thread.
posted by phearlez at 9:35 AM on April 28, 2017 [21 favorites]
I had to listen to Stephen Moore speak earlier this year; his presentation consisted of showing incorrect charts and shouting "demand doesn't cause economic growth! it just doesn't! increasing demand is a ridiculous idea!"
Some of the folks on Trump's team are disingenuous about supporting supply-side econ; some actually believe it.
(He also made up a bunch of "facts" about tariffs, which the subject-matter-expert crowd called him on during the Q&A - it was hilarious.)
posted by melissasaurus at 9:38 AM on April 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
Some of the folks on Trump's team are disingenuous about supporting supply-side econ; some actually believe it.
(He also made up a bunch of "facts" about tariffs, which the subject-matter-expert crowd called him on during the Q&A - it was hilarious.)
posted by melissasaurus at 9:38 AM on April 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
Chas Freeman, American Conservative: America’s Misadventures in the Middle East
The United States is a secular democracy. It has no intrinsic interest in which theology rules hearts or dominates territory in the Middle East. It is not itself now dependent on energy imports from the Persian Gulf or the Maghreb. For most of the two-and-a-half centuries since their country was born, Americans kept a healthy distance from the region and were unharmed by events there. They extended their protection to specific nations in the Middle East as part of a global struggle against Soviet communism that is long past. What happens in the region no longer determines the global balance of power.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:39 AM on April 28, 2017 [15 favorites]
U.S. wars in the Middle East are—without exception—wars of choice. These wars have proven ruinously expensive and injurious to the civil liberties of Americans. They have poisoned American political culture with various manifestations of xenophobia. Islamophobia has transitioned naturally to anti-Semitism and other forms of racism and bigotry. In the region itself, American military interventions have produced more anarchy than order, more terror than tranquility, more oppression than democratization, and more blowback than pacification.
The theory, of course, is that rational economic actors will reinvest windfall profits into expansion.
To expand on this, it's really that rational economic actors will invest their funds to get the maximum available return for the minimal risk. Each company, as an investment, carries a certain amount of risk which creates an expectation for a certain return about in line with what other similarly risky investments would return. As an investor, if I've decided that I can tolerate a certain level of risk, I'm going to try and get the best return for that level of risk that I can.
So, from the corporation's perspective, it will seek to reinvest as much of it's profits back into the business as it can that will generate at least that rate of return. Let's say that the expected rate of return for my business is 8%. In theory, that means that I'm going to fund every capital expenditure on the table that will get me to that 8% overall. Some are riskier with higher returns, some safer with lower returns but it needs to help me get an aggregate return around that 8% without changing risks. I'll keep funding projects until I'm either out of projects or out of capital. If I run out of projects, I'll take the excess capital and return it to the investors by way of stock buy-backs and/or dividends.
It's basically the company saying, "I can't invest this money more efficiently than you can so you're better off with it than I am."
Helpfully, any gains you've made on that investment are taxed as capital gains rather than income. Gee, I wonder if that might have something to do with it?
posted by VTX at 9:40 AM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
To expand on this, it's really that rational economic actors will invest their funds to get the maximum available return for the minimal risk. Each company, as an investment, carries a certain amount of risk which creates an expectation for a certain return about in line with what other similarly risky investments would return. As an investor, if I've decided that I can tolerate a certain level of risk, I'm going to try and get the best return for that level of risk that I can.
So, from the corporation's perspective, it will seek to reinvest as much of it's profits back into the business as it can that will generate at least that rate of return. Let's say that the expected rate of return for my business is 8%. In theory, that means that I'm going to fund every capital expenditure on the table that will get me to that 8% overall. Some are riskier with higher returns, some safer with lower returns but it needs to help me get an aggregate return around that 8% without changing risks. I'll keep funding projects until I'm either out of projects or out of capital. If I run out of projects, I'll take the excess capital and return it to the investors by way of stock buy-backs and/or dividends.
It's basically the company saying, "I can't invest this money more efficiently than you can so you're better off with it than I am."
Helpfully, any gains you've made on that investment are taxed as capital gains rather than income. Gee, I wonder if that might have something to do with it?
posted by VTX at 9:40 AM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Wait, we funded the government for a week?
Congress is treating funding the government like getting a payday loan.
posted by sgranade at 9:40 AM on April 28, 2017 [18 favorites]
Congress is treating funding the government like getting a payday loan.
posted by sgranade at 9:40 AM on April 28, 2017 [18 favorites]
Jason Wilson, Guardian: Burst your bubble: conservative takes on Margaret Atwood and Marine Le Pen
Wilson reliably finds interesting articles so you don't have to slog through the conservative web yourself.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:42 AM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Wilson reliably finds interesting articles so you don't have to slog through the conservative web yourself.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:42 AM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Wilson reliably finds interesting articles
I'm having a hard time reconciling that statement with the fact that the first article listed is written by Megan McArglebargleblender
posted by phearlez at 9:48 AM on April 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
I'm having a hard time reconciling that statement with the fact that the first article listed is written by Megan McArglebargleblender
posted by phearlez at 9:48 AM on April 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
zachlipton: The Senate has now also passed a one week continuing resolution. It now goes to, I still can't believe I'm typing this, President Trump for signature.
It's kind of like postponing someone's exorbitant medical bill a week so you don't possibly bankrupt them on their birthday.
Congrats on not shutting down the government on day 100, but day 107!
posted by filthy light thief at 9:55 AM on April 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
It's kind of like postponing someone's exorbitant medical bill a week so you don't possibly bankrupt them on their birthday.
Congrats on not shutting down the government on day 100, but day 107!
posted by filthy light thief at 9:55 AM on April 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
It's not really possible to be more blatantly corrupt.
You almost had me believing you. But then, Trump.
posted by scalefree at 10:02 AM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
You almost had me believing you. But then, Trump.
posted by scalefree at 10:02 AM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Rational economic actors are kind of like free markets - utterly fictitious.
posted by Artw at 10:02 AM on April 28, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:02 AM on April 28, 2017 [17 favorites]
Imagine if he kicked it back with "I won't sign CR until healthcare is passed."
posted by Talez at 10:03 AM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Talez at 10:03 AM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Some enterprising reporter should spend an entire interview with Trump just asking him for his definition of various words and basic ideas.
This is going to be a long walk for this anecdote, but please go on the journey with me.
When I imagine Trump defining and explaining basic words like "nationalist" or "globalist", I immediately think of a movie called Angels Revenge from season 6 of Mystery Science Theater 3000. It's a Charlie's Angels knock-off from the late 1970s. There's a scene where the team of vigilante women infiltrate a private beach to catch drug smugglers. One of the smugglers sees the women and struts over to them to kick them off the beach so they don't see his drug operation. "Can't you see this is a private beach?" he says in his best redneck drawl, "It's posted right here on this sign." He points to the nearby sign reading PRIVATE BEACH and spells out, "P-R-I... there you got your "pry"... V-A-T-E... there you got your "vit". OK, so they spelled it wrong, but you gotta [get out of here]."
So I imagine Trump trying to explain globalism. "Well, first you have your "globe". Very big, very tremendous globe. Some people say it's an important globe. Then you have your "alism" which, and this is bigly important, you can't have without the globe. Maybe people are just finding this out now, it's amazing."
In case you're wondering, in the movie, the women beat up the guy, steal his clothes, and use them to fool the other drug smugglers into thinking they made the clandestine drug drop to their buddy, not the vigilantes. This makes Jack Palance mad.
posted by Servo5678 at 10:06 AM on April 28, 2017 [32 favorites]
This is going to be a long walk for this anecdote, but please go on the journey with me.
When I imagine Trump defining and explaining basic words like "nationalist" or "globalist", I immediately think of a movie called Angels Revenge from season 6 of Mystery Science Theater 3000. It's a Charlie's Angels knock-off from the late 1970s. There's a scene where the team of vigilante women infiltrate a private beach to catch drug smugglers. One of the smugglers sees the women and struts over to them to kick them off the beach so they don't see his drug operation. "Can't you see this is a private beach?" he says in his best redneck drawl, "It's posted right here on this sign." He points to the nearby sign reading PRIVATE BEACH and spells out, "P-R-I... there you got your "pry"... V-A-T-E... there you got your "vit". OK, so they spelled it wrong, but you gotta [get out of here]."
So I imagine Trump trying to explain globalism. "Well, first you have your "globe". Very big, very tremendous globe. Some people say it's an important globe. Then you have your "alism" which, and this is bigly important, you can't have without the globe. Maybe people are just finding this out now, it's amazing."
In case you're wondering, in the movie, the women beat up the guy, steal his clothes, and use them to fool the other drug smugglers into thinking they made the clandestine drug drop to their buddy, not the vigilantes. This makes Jack Palance mad.
posted by Servo5678 at 10:06 AM on April 28, 2017 [32 favorites]
I'll keep funding projects until I'm either out of projects or out of capital. If I run out of projects, I'll take the excess capital and return it to the investors by way of stock buy-backs and/or dividends.
Alternately, you can back up dumptrucks full of that cash to your senior management's back doors, as rewards for squeezing an extra 1% profit out of the company this past quarter, even if it meant damaging the long-term viability of the corporation by, for example, undermining their own workforce or taking on an unsustainable debt load, or, or, or...
posted by darkstar at 10:07 AM on April 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
Alternately, you can back up dumptrucks full of that cash to your senior management's back doors, as rewards for squeezing an extra 1% profit out of the company this past quarter, even if it meant damaging the long-term viability of the corporation by, for example, undermining their own workforce or taking on an unsustainable debt load, or, or, or...
posted by darkstar at 10:07 AM on April 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
I like Nicole Wallace. She doesn't like Trump and generally has a interesting perspective, based on seeing her on the Today show.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:08 AM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by kirkaracha at 10:08 AM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
This makes Jack Palance mad.
I may have to adopt that as my new go-to equivalent for "This kills the crab."
posted by darkstar at 10:11 AM on April 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
I may have to adopt that as my new go-to equivalent for "This kills the crab."
posted by darkstar at 10:11 AM on April 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
Interesting drama at the Heritage Foundation—DeMint set to be ousted from Heritage Foundation:
posted by zachlipton at 10:11 AM on April 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
The controversial president of the Heritage Foundation and former senator, Jim DeMint, may soon be out of a job, following a dispute with board members about the direction of far-right leaning think tank, according to three people with knowledge of the situation.The vibe I'm getting here is that the kind of people who are on the board of the Heritage Foundation don't want to be seen as overseeing an increasingly Trumpy organization.
Some Heritage board members believe that DeMint has brought in too many Senate allies and made the think tank too bombastic and political — to the detriment of its research and scholarly aims.
posted by zachlipton at 10:11 AM on April 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
I would love for some wag to carve them up next time some horrible municipality wants a Ten Commandments monument.
Maybe if you can pick your religion's ten commandments out of the lineup provided, you can have them on a monument.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 10:12 AM on April 28, 2017
Maybe if you can pick your religion's ten commandments out of the lineup provided, you can have them on a monument.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 10:12 AM on April 28, 2017
Here's a spot of hope for the future of the media: Competition Be Damned How reporters at the Washington Post, New York Times, ProPublica, and more self-organized to free trapped FEC data.
And here's the GitHub project that's the result.
posted by scalefree at 10:12 AM on April 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
And here's the GitHub project that's the result.
posted by scalefree at 10:12 AM on April 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
"increasingly Trumpy"
Not everybody likes the cloying flavor of DeMint.
posted by darkstar at 10:12 AM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Not everybody likes the cloying flavor of DeMint.
posted by darkstar at 10:12 AM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
There actually is a term for a person who is both a nationalist and a globalist:
Imperialist.
posted by Rumple at 10:15 AM on April 28, 2017 [65 favorites]
Imperialist.
posted by Rumple at 10:15 AM on April 28, 2017 [65 favorites]
The Times is portraying DeMint's exit a bit differently, blaming him for failing to push for a complete repeal of Obamacare, a Heritage priority for years.
posted by zachlipton at 10:17 AM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 10:17 AM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
So the NCGOP overrode Cooper's veto and reduced the number of judges on NC's Court of Appeals from 15 to 12. Apparently the legislature didn't like Cooper being able to appoint three justices as the current ones were approaching mandatory retirement.
An absolute travesty and it'll go completely unpunished by the (heavily gerrymandered) NC electorate.
posted by Talez at 10:18 AM on April 28, 2017 [17 favorites]
An absolute travesty and it'll go completely unpunished by the (heavily gerrymandered) NC electorate.
posted by Talez at 10:18 AM on April 28, 2017 [17 favorites]
Apparently Brett Easton Ellis has recently discovered Milo Yiannopoulos lately and thinks he's fucking awesome, so there's that.
Why am I not surprised?
posted by octobersurprise at 10:18 AM on April 28, 2017
Why am I not surprised?
posted by octobersurprise at 10:18 AM on April 28, 2017
Some Heritage board members believe that DeMint has brought in too many Senate allies and made the think tank too bombastic and political — to the detriment of its research and scholarly aims.
As if Heritage had a great academic reputation for honesty and good faith before Demint came on board. It's always been a chop shop for fabricating pseudo-scientific "evidence" to support Republican policy choices post facto.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:19 AM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
As if Heritage had a great academic reputation for honesty and good faith before Demint came on board. It's always been a chop shop for fabricating pseudo-scientific "evidence" to support Republican policy choices post facto.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:19 AM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Neil Gabler (BillMoyers.com): The 100 Days That Turned America Upside Down
And, yes, you may think we can return to some sanity, some moral revivification, if and when Trump leaves the presidency. But consider this: It has taken us decades to make the progress we have made in stigmatizing racism, anti-Semitism, sexism, nativism and homophobia. Slow but steady. That progress led us to hope that three or four generations from now, perhaps, these might even vanish, the hatred in the American soul might be extirpated and we would be the country we purport to be.posted by ZeusHumms at 10:25 AM on April 28, 2017 [59 favorites]
This didn’t mean we had all undergone some miraculous transformation. It simply meant that social censure — yes, even that dreaded political correctness — compelled us to be better than we wanted to be until the day came when that compulsion would no longer be necessary. And therein lies a terrible sadness: Trump’s most heinous accomplishment in my estimation is that he has removed that social censure. Acts of hatred have spiked, and we don’t have to look very far to see why. Trump has normalized the very worst in us. He has inverted social censure so that hatred is not only acceptable; it is considered a form of honesty.
And that is the real tragedy and danger of these 100 days and of the 1,300 of his presidency to come. Trump didn’t change who many of us were. He revealed it. He showed that there were, indeed, millions of Americans for whom the flipping of sense and values took precedence over their own interests, and they will not give him up — even if, as he once famously said, he shot someone in broad daylight on Fifth Avenue. Can there be any more damning indictment of his supporters than that, any more damning indictment of the country he rules?
Chas Freeman, American Conservative: America’s Misadventures in the Middle East
I completely agree with this:
If “it’s going to be only America first,” this tradeoff calls out for systematic examination.Crap, am I a conservative now?
So, of course, do America’s wars in the region. They include the ongoing conflicts in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Syria, and Yemen, as well as the conflicts in the Sahel that escalating combat with a disorderly jumble of transnational Islamist movements has spawned. None of these military operations is authorized by a congressional declaration of war that justifies the commitment of U.S. forces, sets parameters and objectives for their uses of force, and establishes a legal state of war. Article I, Section 8, Clause 11 of the United States Constitution requires such a declaration to make wars of choice legal. The Constitution’s assignment of the war power to the Congress is unequivocal and fundamental to the separation of powers.
Notwithstanding this, all current American wars are presidentially ordained, permitted but not forthrightly endorsed by Congress, and subject to no effective oversight by anyone other than the nation’s generals. Such is American militarism. None of these wars has a coherent purpose. In none is the United States now in a position to determine the outcome. In none is any end in sight.
Perhaps it’s time for the president to demand that the Congress step up to its responsibility under the Constitution and either declare war or, by failing to do so, make it clear that he must focus on extricating America from the unconstitutional forays into foreign quagmires he has inherited from his predecessors.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:26 AM on April 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
The Specter of Illegitimacy Haunts Trump’s First 100 Days
"Trump seems never to have considered the possibility of moving toward the center and working with Democrats on policy. Nor have Republicans shown any inclination to cooperate with Democratic demands to conduct basic oversight of Trump’s corruption and scandals. These two decisions, no oversight and no bipartisan legislation, seem linked. The implicit threat of exposing Trump to investigations is the lever Republicans in Congress have to ensure his fealty to conservative movement dogma rather than adopt more moderate and popular policies. This pact to maintain the Republican monopoly on power at all costs is a strategy shaped by the legitimacy crisis of the Trump presidency."
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:29 AM on April 28, 2017 [16 favorites]
"Trump seems never to have considered the possibility of moving toward the center and working with Democrats on policy. Nor have Republicans shown any inclination to cooperate with Democratic demands to conduct basic oversight of Trump’s corruption and scandals. These two decisions, no oversight and no bipartisan legislation, seem linked. The implicit threat of exposing Trump to investigations is the lever Republicans in Congress have to ensure his fealty to conservative movement dogma rather than adopt more moderate and popular policies. This pact to maintain the Republican monopoly on power at all costs is a strategy shaped by the legitimacy crisis of the Trump presidency."
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:29 AM on April 28, 2017 [16 favorites]
Crap, am I a conservative now?
No. The few sensible and principled conservatives just overlap liberalism more than they like to admit.
posted by Talez at 10:29 AM on April 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
No. The few sensible and principled conservatives just overlap liberalism more than they like to admit.
posted by Talez at 10:29 AM on April 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
An absolute travesty and it'll go completely unpunished by the (heavily gerrymandered) NC electorate.
What do you propose we do about it?
posted by yoga at 10:30 AM on April 28, 2017
What do you propose we do about it?
posted by yoga at 10:30 AM on April 28, 2017
and values took precedence over their own interests, and they will not give him up — even if, as he once famously said, he shot someone in broad daylight on Fifth Avenue. Can there be any more damning indictment of his supporters than that, any more damning indictment of the country he rules?
This has always struck me as the defining moment in the Trump candidacy.
Aside from all of the corruption, incompetence, mismanagement and everything else we have seen since...when you say out loud that you could murder someone in front of the nation and your supporters would not leave you, you have said pretty much all there is to say about yourself and the values of those that support you.
It is a far more insulting and damning thing to say about his supporters than calling them a "basket of deplorables". And the saddest part is, it's absolutely true.
posted by darkstar at 10:31 AM on April 28, 2017 [68 favorites]
This has always struck me as the defining moment in the Trump candidacy.
Aside from all of the corruption, incompetence, mismanagement and everything else we have seen since...when you say out loud that you could murder someone in front of the nation and your supporters would not leave you, you have said pretty much all there is to say about yourself and the values of those that support you.
It is a far more insulting and damning thing to say about his supporters than calling them a "basket of deplorables". And the saddest part is, it's absolutely true.
posted by darkstar at 10:31 AM on April 28, 2017 [68 favorites]
A friend has just - as in he informed me about five minutes ago - sold his company to a consortium. It was a decade in the making, took enormous amounts of work, came close to death a few times, and just this past year (for reasons he can't explain) took off. He's still in charge, but now there's a board who can boot him out.
He has made an undisclosed fuckton of money' this week. Which he richly deserves and whatever it actually is, given how much he's put on the line, is probably not that silly on an hours worked/risks involved/opportunity cost basis.
He's done none of this for the money. He wanted to build a company that succeeded. He likes the money, sure, and sees it as a valediction, and by golly he can use it for his family (on which a novel could be written).
He is a serial entrepreneur, and he does it because he is wired that way.
Which means, in the context of this discussion, the most important thing for a government to understand if it wants to manage a capitalist country well, is psychology. Tax rates, regulation, the fiscals - these are necessary mechanisms to understand, because these are the tools a government has, but they do nothing by themselves. If you really want to steer the place in the right direction, you need to understand the motivations of people like my friend, as well as those of the other economic players, from worker to corporate CEO. You can't think of them as rational economic actors. None of them are.
This lot has no idea of any of this. They are corporate CEOs, but ones that (like our friends in Uber) consider themselves unbound by regulation or law - and, alas, (unlike Uber) they are partially right. You could call them mob leaders and be just as right. The motivations they understand are those of fear and corruption.
To take them down, you have to treat them as such. Which means legalling them by all means possible (before it's too late) or becoming the mob across town. I'd try the first course.
posted by Devonian at 10:42 AM on April 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
He has made an undisclosed fuckton of money' this week. Which he richly deserves and whatever it actually is, given how much he's put on the line, is probably not that silly on an hours worked/risks involved/opportunity cost basis.
He's done none of this for the money. He wanted to build a company that succeeded. He likes the money, sure, and sees it as a valediction, and by golly he can use it for his family (on which a novel could be written).
He is a serial entrepreneur, and he does it because he is wired that way.
Which means, in the context of this discussion, the most important thing for a government to understand if it wants to manage a capitalist country well, is psychology. Tax rates, regulation, the fiscals - these are necessary mechanisms to understand, because these are the tools a government has, but they do nothing by themselves. If you really want to steer the place in the right direction, you need to understand the motivations of people like my friend, as well as those of the other economic players, from worker to corporate CEO. You can't think of them as rational economic actors. None of them are.
This lot has no idea of any of this. They are corporate CEOs, but ones that (like our friends in Uber) consider themselves unbound by regulation or law - and, alas, (unlike Uber) they are partially right. You could call them mob leaders and be just as right. The motivations they understand are those of fear and corruption.
To take them down, you have to treat them as such. Which means legalling them by all means possible (before it's too late) or becoming the mob across town. I'd try the first course.
posted by Devonian at 10:42 AM on April 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Reuters has a picture of Trump with the electoral maps he handed out to the reporters. Also shows his red Coke button and a glass of, presumably, Coke on the desk.
posted by zachlipton at 10:42 AM on April 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 10:42 AM on April 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
What do you propose we do about it?
The essential problem is that independents and moderates in conservative parts of NC need to flip on a massive scale due to how densely packed the reliable D voters are. Plus NC's electorate on average is something like R+6 to R+9 to begin with. That's a serious structural deficit to overcome even before you get to gerrymandering. That being said, getting a super-majority is bullshit. At least when a state like Mass does super-majorities the state electorate is D+52. You shouldn't get a super-majority from 6 points in the popular vote.
posted by Talez at 10:43 AM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
The essential problem is that independents and moderates in conservative parts of NC need to flip on a massive scale due to how densely packed the reliable D voters are. Plus NC's electorate on average is something like R+6 to R+9 to begin with. That's a serious structural deficit to overcome even before you get to gerrymandering. That being said, getting a super-majority is bullshit. At least when a state like Mass does super-majorities the state electorate is D+52. You shouldn't get a super-majority from 6 points in the popular vote.
posted by Talez at 10:43 AM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
One odd thing in that photo: photos of the Obama Oval Office seem to show two flags behind the desk, one US flag and one Presidential Seal flag.
Trump seems to have added two more. A second Presidential Seal flag, and a US Army flag (won't the other branches be jealous?). There appears to be something on the US Army flag too; it looks like banners from various military campaigns. I can make out "Chickamauga 1863, "France," and "Burma."
The flags seem to have been added recently from what I can tell.
posted by zachlipton at 10:48 AM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trump seems to have added two more. A second Presidential Seal flag, and a US Army flag (won't the other branches be jealous?). There appears to be something on the US Army flag too; it looks like banners from various military campaigns. I can make out "Chickamauga 1863, "France," and "Burma."
The flags seem to have been added recently from what I can tell.
posted by zachlipton at 10:48 AM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
If you want to watch an old piece of shit talk about how awesome it is to shoot people, C-SPAN has Wayne LaPierre opening for Trump at the NRA convention right now.
Right now he's talking about how academic elites, political elites, and media elites are poisoning the minds of our youth and how we really need to do something unspecified about it.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 10:50 AM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Right now he's talking about how academic elites, political elites, and media elites are poisoning the minds of our youth and how we really need to do something unspecified about it.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 10:50 AM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
you have said pretty much all there is to say about yourself and the values of those that support you.
I'm reminded of the person who inspired this question of mine. In the middle of playing the victim and trying to rules-lawyer his way out of consequences for behavior that was generally understood to not be appropriate (and was a knife's edge away from something that resulted in jail time for someone else), he said "I could have done $related_but_different_thing_with_known_external_consequences and people would be far less upset!"
Which was absurd on the face of it, but it was also an incredibly bizarre and frightening claim to jump to.
6-9 months after the original situation was all cleaned up, and he was upset about losing positions of trust because of behaviors he claimed had been signed off on, it came out that he actually had done $related_but_different_thing_with_known_external_consequences!
This was, of course, right about the time he left of his own volition and moved across the country.
Maybe we can all be so lucky with 45?
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 10:50 AM on April 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
I'm reminded of the person who inspired this question of mine. In the middle of playing the victim and trying to rules-lawyer his way out of consequences for behavior that was generally understood to not be appropriate (and was a knife's edge away from something that resulted in jail time for someone else), he said "I could have done $related_but_different_thing_with_known_external_consequences and people would be far less upset!"
Which was absurd on the face of it, but it was also an incredibly bizarre and frightening claim to jump to.
6-9 months after the original situation was all cleaned up, and he was upset about losing positions of trust because of behaviors he claimed had been signed off on, it came out that he actually had done $related_but_different_thing_with_known_external_consequences!
This was, of course, right about the time he left of his own volition and moved across the country.
Maybe we can all be so lucky with 45?
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 10:50 AM on April 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
Reuters has a picture of Trump with the electoral maps he handed out to the reporters.
LOL. No, really. LOL. Those maps are county level maps. You use those specifically to monstrously exaggerate the size of a Republican victory. Empty land doesn't vote!
I shouldn't be surprised. I shouldn't be. And yet I am.
posted by Justinian at 10:52 AM on April 28, 2017 [39 favorites]
LOL. No, really. LOL. Those maps are county level maps. You use those specifically to monstrously exaggerate the size of a Republican victory. Empty land doesn't vote!
I shouldn't be surprised. I shouldn't be. And yet I am.
posted by Justinian at 10:52 AM on April 28, 2017 [39 favorites]
"It’s pretty good, right? The red is obviously us.
You know who feels the need to point this out? A man who recently had the significance of the colors explained to him.
posted by diogenes at 10:58 AM on April 28, 2017 [41 favorites]
You know who feels the need to point this out? A man who recently had the significance of the colors explained to him.
posted by diogenes at 10:58 AM on April 28, 2017 [41 favorites]
The description in that link says it's of the Bush Oval Office, FYI.
Er, yeah it is. That said, I don't even see the two additional flags in Trump Oval Office photos fromnine billion years ago a couple months ago, so it seems pretty new to my eye.
Anyway, they seem to be really going all in on the "blame Obama for Flynn" strategy. Here's Trump pulling that line in an interview. This, of course, ignores the fact that Obama literally fired the guy.
posted by zachlipton at 10:59 AM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Er, yeah it is. That said, I don't even see the two additional flags in Trump Oval Office photos from
Anyway, they seem to be really going all in on the "blame Obama for Flynn" strategy. Here's Trump pulling that line in an interview. This, of course, ignores the fact that Obama literally fired the guy.
posted by zachlipton at 10:59 AM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Reuters has a picture of Trump with the electoral maps he handed out to the reporters.
The juxtaposition of those tiny hands with the normal desk is quite something.
posted by Going To Maine at 11:01 AM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
The juxtaposition of those tiny hands with the normal desk is quite something.
posted by Going To Maine at 11:01 AM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Those maps are county level maps. You use those specifically to monstrously exaggerate the size of a Republican victory. Empty land doesn't vote!
Somebody should give him a bar chart with two bars that represent voters. There's a red bar and a bigger blue bar.
posted by diogenes at 11:04 AM on April 28, 2017 [23 favorites]
Somebody should give him a bar chart with two bars that represent voters. There's a red bar and a bigger blue bar.
posted by diogenes at 11:04 AM on April 28, 2017 [23 favorites]
There appears to be something on the US Army flag too; it looks like banners from various military campaigns. I can make out "Chickamauga 1863, "France," and "Burma."
Yeah, those are campaign streamers. A unit gets one for each campaign it was in, so the Army flag gets all of them.
posted by Etrigan at 11:08 AM on April 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
Yeah, those are campaign streamers. A unit gets one for each campaign it was in, so the Army flag gets all of them.
posted by Etrigan at 11:08 AM on April 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
The juxtaposition of those tiny hands with the normal desk is quite something.
It's no small feat to look weak and pathetic while sitting behind the desk in the Oval Office.
posted by diogenes at 11:09 AM on April 28, 2017 [12 favorites]
It's no small feat to look weak and pathetic while sitting behind the desk in the Oval Office.
posted by diogenes at 11:09 AM on April 28, 2017 [12 favorites]
This is a hell of a supercut from Alexander Towbridge (of the Late Show): I went back through cable coverage of every day since Trump's inauguration. Every. Single. Day... I did it for you.
It's been a really long 100 days.
posted by zachlipton at 11:10 AM on April 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
It's been a really long 100 days.
posted by zachlipton at 11:10 AM on April 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
For those of you keeping count/drinking along at home, Trump has spent the last few minutes talking about election day.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 11:12 AM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by OverlappingElvis at 11:12 AM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
This is such a humiliation for our country. Is he the most pathetic leader ever for a great power? Rob Ford was only mayor of a city.
posted by Justinian at 11:13 AM on April 28, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 11:13 AM on April 28, 2017 [20 favorites]
Is he the most pathetic leader ever for a great power?
There were some pretty far-gone kings and emperors and the like back in the day, but at least they had divine right to fall back... oh, wait.
posted by Etrigan at 11:14 AM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
There were some pretty far-gone kings and emperors and the like back in the day, but at least they had divine right to fall back... oh, wait.
posted by Etrigan at 11:14 AM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oh, I was sort of thinking in the modern democratic era where we installed this guy ourselves. At least the people of Rome didn't have to live with having voted Nero, Caligula, and Commodus into office. I'm sure that was a great comfort as they were crucified or whatever.
posted by Justinian at 11:17 AM on April 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 11:17 AM on April 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
God, I hope this is so...
Trump’s first 100 days destroyed the myth that government should be run like a business
Anyone who tries to sell that myth is a toxic moron who knows nothing about governments or businesses.
posted by Artw at 11:21 AM on April 28, 2017 [51 favorites]
Trump’s first 100 days destroyed the myth that government should be run like a business
Anyone who tries to sell that myth is a toxic moron who knows nothing about governments or businesses.
posted by Artw at 11:21 AM on April 28, 2017 [51 favorites]
Apropos of . . . ? GHWBush in hospital with pneumonia, chronic bronchitis
So.
posted by petebest at 11:23 AM on April 28, 2017
So.
posted by petebest at 11:23 AM on April 28, 2017
Oh, I was sort of thinking in the modern democratic era where we installed this guy ourselves.
Well you know who else was kinda sorta democratically chosen
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:24 AM on April 28, 2017 [15 favorites]
Well you know who else was kinda sorta democratically chosen
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:24 AM on April 28, 2017 [15 favorites]
next time some horrible municipality wants a Ten Commandments monument.
Ten Commandments I Have Followed One Is A Lie
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:25 AM on April 28, 2017 [29 favorites]
Ten Commandments I Have Followed One Is A Lie
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:25 AM on April 28, 2017 [29 favorites]
> This is such a humiliation for our country.
Yeah, I just can't get over it. This - this fractally stupid administration - they're destroying our credibility in the world in a way that is going to take decades to recover from. The rest of the world is now on notice, even if we elect someone sane in 2020, that at any given time we might be less than 4 years away from electing another clown shitshow like this one.
For problems with long time horizons, like climate change, or dealing with the coming refugee crisis as the tropics drown, or the massive loss of viable middle class jobs around the world as the machines take over, or nuclear brinkmanship in the Korean peninsula or in South Asia - no one can rely on or trust the word of the United States of America any longer. You might like or trust any given administration, but the next election is coming, and maybe we'll have something like ... like this towering testament to Dunning-Kruger.
The only thing that consoles me in this scenario is that if we are dealing with the long-term fallout, at least we will have survived the current crisis. I guess I'd be grateful for that.
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:25 AM on April 28, 2017 [51 favorites]
Yeah, I just can't get over it. This - this fractally stupid administration - they're destroying our credibility in the world in a way that is going to take decades to recover from. The rest of the world is now on notice, even if we elect someone sane in 2020, that at any given time we might be less than 4 years away from electing another clown shitshow like this one.
For problems with long time horizons, like climate change, or dealing with the coming refugee crisis as the tropics drown, or the massive loss of viable middle class jobs around the world as the machines take over, or nuclear brinkmanship in the Korean peninsula or in South Asia - no one can rely on or trust the word of the United States of America any longer. You might like or trust any given administration, but the next election is coming, and maybe we'll have something like ... like this towering testament to Dunning-Kruger.
The only thing that consoles me in this scenario is that if we are dealing with the long-term fallout, at least we will have survived the current crisis. I guess I'd be grateful for that.
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:25 AM on April 28, 2017 [51 favorites]
In conspiratorial thought there is a common pattern:
"I'm smart and I can see the problem clearly. It is so easy to fix!"
"Why isn't anyone fixing the problem. It's so obvious!"
"If people aren't fixing this easy problem, there must be a reason..."
"The people in power are bad people - they won't fix the easy problem for reason X"
Reason X is the conspiracy.
This is Trump and the Trumpettes. They thought they were smart and the only reason Obama wasn't fixing things was Conspiracy X. Now they're in power and it's laughable. "It's harder than I thought..." A lesser ego would be calling for help by now.
posted by charred husk at 11:27 AM on April 28, 2017 [22 favorites]
"I'm smart and I can see the problem clearly. It is so easy to fix!"
"Why isn't anyone fixing the problem. It's so obvious!"
"If people aren't fixing this easy problem, there must be a reason..."
"The people in power are bad people - they won't fix the easy problem for reason X"
Reason X is the conspiracy.
This is Trump and the Trumpettes. They thought they were smart and the only reason Obama wasn't fixing things was Conspiracy X. Now they're in power and it's laughable. "It's harder than I thought..." A lesser ego would be calling for help by now.
posted by charred husk at 11:27 AM on April 28, 2017 [22 favorites]
Charles II the Habsburg:
"HAAAAAAAAAAAARGH - Oh, It feels good to laugh!"
posted by Artw at 11:27 AM on April 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
"HAAAAAAAAAAAARGH - Oh, It feels good to laugh!"
posted by Artw at 11:27 AM on April 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
This is Trump and the Trumpettes. They thought they were smart and the only reason Obama wasn't fixing things was Conspiracy X. Now they're in power and it's laughable. "It's harder than I thought..." A lesser ego would be calling for help by now.
I mean I guess it's better than going full Hitler and trying to put the conspiracy in camps.
posted by Artw at 11:28 AM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
I mean I guess it's better than going full Hitler and trying to put the conspiracy in camps.
posted by Artw at 11:28 AM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Trump to the NRA: "These are horrible times, for certain obvious reasons."
...because you're President?
posted by XMLicious at 11:35 AM on April 28, 2017 [43 favorites]
...because you're President?
posted by XMLicious at 11:35 AM on April 28, 2017 [43 favorites]
I mean I guess it's better than going full Hitler and trying to put the conspiracy in camps.
"Obama was a secretly a muslim" was part of Conspiracy X - camps aren't out of the question if he gets desperate and quadruples down.
posted by charred husk at 11:36 AM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
"Obama was a secretly a muslim" was part of Conspiracy X - camps aren't out of the question if he gets desperate and quadruples down.
posted by charred husk at 11:36 AM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
The California Insurance Commissioner has told insurers to file two sets of rates on Monday for 2018, "one assuming the ACA is enforced and the other assuming President Trump and House Republican leaders continue to undermine or repeal the law and cause unnecessary premium increases."
It's a stunt, but a damn good one.
posted by zachlipton at 11:37 AM on April 28, 2017 [56 favorites]
It's a stunt, but a damn good one.
posted by zachlipton at 11:37 AM on April 28, 2017 [56 favorites]
The essential problem is that independents and moderates in conservative parts of NC need to flip on a massive scale due to how densely packed the reliable D voters are. Plus NC's electorate on average is something like R+6 to R+9 to begin with. That's a serious structural deficit to overcome even before you get to gerrymandering. That being said, getting a super-majority is bullshit. At least when a state like Mass does super-majorities the state electorate is D+52. You shouldn't get a super-majority from 6 points in the popular vote.
Yes, we are quite aware of what the problem is. This still doesn't tell me any real steps to take to fix it. I'm 1 voter. With a full time job. And if the only opportunity to fix this bullshit is every 2 or 3 years, that is fucking discouraging as all hell. Especially when the NCGA pulls the rug out from under our D governor every goddamn week.
It's a huge problem, and in all honesty I've run out of energy to fight it. It doesn't really help when blanket statements like this
An absolute travesty and it'll go completely unpunished by the (heavily gerrymandered) NC electorate.
Are followed by paragraphs that telling us what we already know. Some of us do have brains in NC.
posted by yoga at 11:40 AM on April 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
Yes, we are quite aware of what the problem is. This still doesn't tell me any real steps to take to fix it. I'm 1 voter. With a full time job. And if the only opportunity to fix this bullshit is every 2 or 3 years, that is fucking discouraging as all hell. Especially when the NCGA pulls the rug out from under our D governor every goddamn week.
It's a huge problem, and in all honesty I've run out of energy to fight it. It doesn't really help when blanket statements like this
An absolute travesty and it'll go completely unpunished by the (heavily gerrymandered) NC electorate.
Are followed by paragraphs that telling us what we already know. Some of us do have brains in NC.
posted by yoga at 11:40 AM on April 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
Which means, in the context of this discussion, the most important thing for a government to understand if it wants to manage a capitalist country well, is psychology. Tax rates, regulation, the fiscals - these are necessary mechanisms to understand, because these are the tools a government has, but they do nothing by themselves. If you really want to steer the place in the right direction, you need to understand the motivations of people like my friend, as well as those of the other economic players, from worker to corporate CEO. You can't think of them as rational economic actors. None of them are.
I question that it even matters they understand. Go ahead and stipulate that there is a perfect understanding of the people currently making buckets of money. Stipulate that they're right at the edge, taxation-wise, of not wanting to earn any more money. If the current tax rate of X were to become X+1 they would lose interest in making another $1. They'll stick with current business scope. Won't open another restaurant. Won't buy the equipment to make more widgets. Whatever.
Hell, let's stipulate that they'll even contract their business.
As someone said in a parallel above when talking about wages, that doesn't change demand. So if that demand is there, in a country of 300M people it is a virtual certainty that there's someone else who will be willing to make that dollar even if it's taxed at X+1. In this nation full of temporarily disadvantaged millionaires there is unquestionably someone who will step up to take on that business.
Is there eventually a point at which someone won't take a gamble with money they already have in pursuit of more? Sure, probably, though I'm not entirely convinced you hit that point even at 90% taxation. If losses weren't deductible, sure, but the reality is that a company with healthy sales and a big war chest can take a swing and miss if the risks are relatively quantifiable. It's one of the reasons why the market shits itself way more over uncertainty than anything else.
If we really gave a shit about entrepreneurship we'd be taxing top profits more heavily and embracing basic safety net and health care stuff. During the time I ran my own business there was nothing else that made it harder than health care except perhaps the possibility of failing so badly I'd have to eat out of a dumpster. Which of course, as a white dude with a reasonably successful family was never really a danger; I always had people to fall back on if everything went completely pear-shaped. But of course we don't really care about that any more than we really care about undocumented immigrants taking farming or service jobs, else we'd actually get serious about mandating use of eVerify.
posted by phearlez at 11:40 AM on April 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
I question that it even matters they understand. Go ahead and stipulate that there is a perfect understanding of the people currently making buckets of money. Stipulate that they're right at the edge, taxation-wise, of not wanting to earn any more money. If the current tax rate of X were to become X+1 they would lose interest in making another $1. They'll stick with current business scope. Won't open another restaurant. Won't buy the equipment to make more widgets. Whatever.
Hell, let's stipulate that they'll even contract their business.
As someone said in a parallel above when talking about wages, that doesn't change demand. So if that demand is there, in a country of 300M people it is a virtual certainty that there's someone else who will be willing to make that dollar even if it's taxed at X+1. In this nation full of temporarily disadvantaged millionaires there is unquestionably someone who will step up to take on that business.
Is there eventually a point at which someone won't take a gamble with money they already have in pursuit of more? Sure, probably, though I'm not entirely convinced you hit that point even at 90% taxation. If losses weren't deductible, sure, but the reality is that a company with healthy sales and a big war chest can take a swing and miss if the risks are relatively quantifiable. It's one of the reasons why the market shits itself way more over uncertainty than anything else.
If we really gave a shit about entrepreneurship we'd be taxing top profits more heavily and embracing basic safety net and health care stuff. During the time I ran my own business there was nothing else that made it harder than health care except perhaps the possibility of failing so badly I'd have to eat out of a dumpster. Which of course, as a white dude with a reasonably successful family was never really a danger; I always had people to fall back on if everything went completely pear-shaped. But of course we don't really care about that any more than we really care about undocumented immigrants taking farming or service jobs, else we'd actually get serious about mandating use of eVerify.
posted by phearlez at 11:40 AM on April 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
> If we really gave a shit about entrepreneurship we'd be taxing top profits more heavily and embracing basic safety net and health care stuff. During the time I ran my own business there was nothing else that made it harder than health care except perhaps the possibility of failing so badly I'd have to eat out of a dumpster.
If it wasn't for the fact that my kids depend on the (excellent) health insurance offered by my employer, I'd seriously consider dropping out and starting my own consulting or software development or heck, going into a glass and jewelry business with my wife. Employer-provided health care actively holds me back from considering entrepreneurship.
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:47 AM on April 28, 2017 [35 favorites]
If it wasn't for the fact that my kids depend on the (excellent) health insurance offered by my employer, I'd seriously consider dropping out and starting my own consulting or software development or heck, going into a glass and jewelry business with my wife. Employer-provided health care actively holds me back from considering entrepreneurship.
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:47 AM on April 28, 2017 [35 favorites]
RedOrGreen: Same for me. I'm a graphic designer stuck in a boring corporate job for the health benefits. If the government provided health coverage, I would be free to seek out more interesting work without worrying about coverage.
posted by Fleebnork at 11:51 AM on April 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Fleebnork at 11:51 AM on April 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
Employer-provided health care actively holds me back from considering entrepreneurship.
...or a life dedicating to running a non-profit, or otherwise volunteering more than a few hours a week.
posted by wenestvedt at 11:52 AM on April 28, 2017 [16 favorites]
...or a life dedicating to running a non-profit, or otherwise volunteering more than a few hours a week.
posted by wenestvedt at 11:52 AM on April 28, 2017 [16 favorites]
HUD Purges Publications that Helped Shelters Keep Transgender People Safe: Sometime in the last two months, the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) removed a half-dozen resource documents from its website that were aimed at helping emergency homeless shelters and other housing providers comply with HUD nondiscrimination rules and keep transgender people safe. These resources were published in 2016 based on consultation with numerous service providers and advocates around the country.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:53 AM on April 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:53 AM on April 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
I think at this point if there's anything you find useful on a govt. website, you need to download it yourself. And then share it.
(and I hope someone did for those HUD documents)
posted by emjaybee at 11:56 AM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
(and I hope someone did for those HUD documents)
posted by emjaybee at 11:56 AM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Ok, now I'm shocked
I mean, I was a military brat in the 80s and even then I remember a fair shake of strong anti-Reagan sentiment from the adults around me. And remember, by and large, nobody wants war less than the troops do.
posted by Andrhia at 11:57 AM on April 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
I mean, I was a military brat in the 80s and even then I remember a fair shake of strong anti-Reagan sentiment from the adults around me. And remember, by and large, nobody wants war less than the troops do.
posted by Andrhia at 11:57 AM on April 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Ok, now I'm shocked
There was a lot of internal conflict in vets' groups about how to deal with Trump, and a lot of vets realized that they weren't really the only lefties who'd been in uniform, it just felt like it. VoteVets is the biggest, but there's a lot of new explicitly progressive veterans' groups out there.
posted by Etrigan at 12:04 PM on April 28, 2017 [33 favorites]
There was a lot of internal conflict in vets' groups about how to deal with Trump, and a lot of vets realized that they weren't really the only lefties who'd been in uniform, it just felt like it. VoteVets is the biggest, but there's a lot of new explicitly progressive veterans' groups out there.
posted by Etrigan at 12:04 PM on April 28, 2017 [33 favorites]
Ok, now I'm shocked.
Good for them! I'm really proud of some of the Vets out on the front lines recently. Those guys who went up to Standing Rock, vets protesting. It's incredibly meaningful.
posted by Sophie1 at 12:08 PM on April 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
Good for them! I'm really proud of some of the Vets out on the front lines recently. Those guys who went up to Standing Rock, vets protesting. It's incredibly meaningful.
posted by Sophie1 at 12:08 PM on April 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
Trump just called Elizabeth Warren “pocahontas” again and gets huge laughs from the #nraam2017
So presidential.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:08 PM on April 28, 2017 [33 favorites]
So presidential.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:08 PM on April 28, 2017 [33 favorites]
One could say there is something... almost child-like about this President.
"You're a child. You have the mind and ego of an angry, spoiled, uneducated child. And that's what makes you so fucking scary."
posted by asteria at 12:11 PM on April 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
"You're a child. You have the mind and ego of an angry, spoiled, uneducated child. And that's what makes you so fucking scary."
posted by asteria at 12:11 PM on April 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
That tweet was via ColdChef btw, meaning its not something I'd normally come across so seeing it put that bluntly for their own CinC was a bit of a shock.
Also,
The creeping influence of nepotism in Trump’s America
The US president’s family’s grip on power is unprecedented in western democracy
posted by infini at 12:13 PM on April 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
Also,
The creeping influence of nepotism in Trump’s America
The US president’s family’s grip on power is unprecedented in western democracy
posted by infini at 12:13 PM on April 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
I'd say galloping over creeping TBH. People decided conflicts of interest didn't matter anymore and they leapt all in.
posted by Artw at 12:16 PM on April 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 12:16 PM on April 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Our long national nightmare is over:
Trump: '8-year assault' on Second Amendment is over.
(lifetime assault on women: still proceeding as scheduled)
posted by tocts at 12:28 PM on April 28, 2017 [27 favorites]
Trump: '8-year assault' on Second Amendment is over.
(lifetime assault on women: still proceeding as scheduled)
posted by tocts at 12:28 PM on April 28, 2017 [27 favorites]
Ahead of Trump's 100th day mark, Obama says Obamacare is more popular than Trump
posted by futz at 12:28 PM on April 28, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by futz at 12:28 PM on April 28, 2017 [30 favorites]
I'd say galloping over creeping TBH.
That is the FT. Understatement is to be expected.
posted by infini at 12:29 PM on April 28, 2017
That is the FT. Understatement is to be expected.
posted by infini at 12:29 PM on April 28, 2017
I'd say galloping over creeping TBH.
QWOPing, surely.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 12:30 PM on April 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
QWOPing, surely.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 12:30 PM on April 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
Yes, the FT's one of the last remaining media houses I still keep up with. That and the Guardian. The Beebs gone over to the dark side, or, taken off their helmet.
posted by infini at 12:30 PM on April 28, 2017
posted by infini at 12:30 PM on April 28, 2017
> Yeah, I just can't get over it. This - this fractally stupid administration - they're destroying our credibility in the world in a way that is going to take decades to recover from. The rest of the world is now on notice, even if we elect someone sane in 2020, that at any given time we might be less than 4 years away from electing another clown shitshow like this one.
For problems with long time horizons, like climate change, or dealing with the coming refugee crisis as the tropics drown, or the massive loss of viable middle class jobs around the world as the machines take over, or nuclear brinkmanship in the Korean peninsula or in South Asia - no one can rely on or trust the word of the United States of America any longer. You might like or trust any given administration, but the next election is coming, and maybe we'll have something like ... like this towering testament to Dunning-Kruger.
So this is a relatively short comment in response to a relatively long and thoughtful analysis, but one thing that's helped me with the creeping horror of these feelings is to never, ever, ever personally identify with the United States of America. That organization is nominally in charge of the place where I live, but it's not "we," it's "them." It feels a little bit more sane to try to join the rest of the world in understanding the United States as (whether we like it or not) a problem that we have to deal with, rather than a thing we identify with.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:30 PM on April 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
For problems with long time horizons, like climate change, or dealing with the coming refugee crisis as the tropics drown, or the massive loss of viable middle class jobs around the world as the machines take over, or nuclear brinkmanship in the Korean peninsula or in South Asia - no one can rely on or trust the word of the United States of America any longer. You might like or trust any given administration, but the next election is coming, and maybe we'll have something like ... like this towering testament to Dunning-Kruger.
So this is a relatively short comment in response to a relatively long and thoughtful analysis, but one thing that's helped me with the creeping horror of these feelings is to never, ever, ever personally identify with the United States of America. That organization is nominally in charge of the place where I live, but it's not "we," it's "them." It feels a little bit more sane to try to join the rest of the world in understanding the United States as (whether we like it or not) a problem that we have to deal with, rather than a thing we identify with.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:30 PM on April 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
White House eyeing Clarke for Homeland Security post
Guy kills a prisoner by dehydration, travels to Russia to met with one of Putin's deputies, the target of US sanctions, and lost a lawsuit for inviting people to proselytize at mandatory employee meetings, and they want to give him a job?
PPP did a poll of Milwaukee County voters in January, and the results were awful, so I guess he's looking for a quick exit.
posted by zachlipton at 12:32 PM on April 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
Guy kills a prisoner by dehydration, travels to Russia to met with one of Putin's deputies, the target of US sanctions, and lost a lawsuit for inviting people to proselytize at mandatory employee meetings, and they want to give him a job?
PPP did a poll of Milwaukee County voters in January, and the results were awful, so I guess he's looking for a quick exit.
posted by zachlipton at 12:32 PM on April 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
This is such a humiliation for our country. Is he the most pathetic leader ever for a great power? Rob Ford was only mayor of a city.
When Trump did his press conference next to King Abdullah II of Jordan, he was a leader selected as the single most meritorious individual among all eligible citizens of his nation, standing next to someone who wielded executive power purely based on his parents and the timing of his birth. You can guess which of the leaders seemed to be a thousand-times more capable.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:32 PM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
When Trump did his press conference next to King Abdullah II of Jordan, he was a leader selected as the single most meritorious individual among all eligible citizens of his nation, standing next to someone who wielded executive power purely based on his parents and the timing of his birth. You can guess which of the leaders seemed to be a thousand-times more capable.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:32 PM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Ahead of Trump's 100th day mark, Obama says Obamacare is more popular than Trump
Trolling level: Expert.
posted by chris24 at 12:37 PM on April 28, 2017 [52 favorites]
Trolling level: Expert.
posted by chris24 at 12:37 PM on April 28, 2017 [52 favorites]
The few sensible and principled conservatives just overlap liberalism more than they like to admit.
It's not even that - it's that our country trying to force all the political spectrums of thought into effectively two huge parties rather than four. Sure, the Libertarians and Greens exist, but are largely jokes. In an ideal world, there would be a party that represented each of these actual wings, such that for example, supporting gun rights or lower taxes didn't automatically place you in the same party as people who think conversion therapy is a reasonable thing to enroll your children in.
posted by corb at 12:37 PM on April 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
It's not even that - it's that our country trying to force all the political spectrums of thought into effectively two huge parties rather than four. Sure, the Libertarians and Greens exist, but are largely jokes. In an ideal world, there would be a party that represented each of these actual wings, such that for example, supporting gun rights or lower taxes didn't automatically place you in the same party as people who think conversion therapy is a reasonable thing to enroll your children in.
posted by corb at 12:37 PM on April 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
Employer-provided health care actively holds me back from considering entrepreneurship.
That is much less the case since Obamacare. Until your new company makes a profit, you and your family can get free or low cost healthcare from Obamacare. Also, no company can refuse to insure you or charge you higher rates because of pre-existing conditions if you leave your employer.
Obamacare has made it much easier for people to take the risk of creating their own businesses, which is another fact that so-called "business friendly" Republicans refuse to recognize.
posted by JackFlash at 12:40 PM on April 28, 2017 [32 favorites]
That is much less the case since Obamacare. Until your new company makes a profit, you and your family can get free or low cost healthcare from Obamacare. Also, no company can refuse to insure you or charge you higher rates because of pre-existing conditions if you leave your employer.
Obamacare has made it much easier for people to take the risk of creating their own businesses, which is another fact that so-called "business friendly" Republicans refuse to recognize.
posted by JackFlash at 12:40 PM on April 28, 2017 [32 favorites]
Obamacare has made it much easier for people to take the risk of creating their own businesses, which is another fact that so-called "business friendly" Republicans refuse to recognize.
When they say "business friendly", they mean their businesses. Not yours.
posted by Servo5678 at 12:42 PM on April 28, 2017 [20 favorites]
When they say "business friendly", they mean their businesses. Not yours.
posted by Servo5678 at 12:42 PM on April 28, 2017 [20 favorites]
Guy kills a prisoner by dehydration, travels to Russia to met with one of Putin's deputies, the target of US sanctions, and lost a lawsuit for inviting people to proselytize at mandatory employee meetings, and they want to give him a job?
He also likes to whine on official social media pages. Birds of a feather, I suppose.
I'd welcome anyone taking him off our hands at this point, and while a federal post isn't great, it looks like he wouldn't directly be running anything? Maybe he can manage to get himself convicted for something first.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 12:43 PM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
I don't think either the greens or the libertarians would stand much of a chance of being a major party even in a context where democracy existed. they're both unserious organizations with incoherent political analyses. my guess for what the party system in america would look like if america had democracy is something like:
- at least one fascist party (most of the republican party plus a few stormfront types who don't overtly identify as republicans.)
- a nominally non-fascist christian corporatist party (the left wing of the republican party plus the right wing of the democratic party)
- a liberal party (containing the libertarians, the greens, and the center of the democrats)
- various socialist parties, ranging from sandersite social democrats to tiny maoist formations
- at least one anarchist/pirate organization that refuses to call itself a party
What has President Trump said about your country in his first 100 days? (BBC, 27 April 2017) -- noting what he's said via meetings, phone calls and tweets, with an emoji face to summarize Trump's over-all stance on that country.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:53 PM on April 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by filthy light thief at 12:53 PM on April 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
New registration details Manafort's lobbying for pro-Russia party
Paul Manafort attended four lobbying meetings with members of Congress and Washington organizations while advising a pro-Russia Ukrainian political party, according to new disclosure forms filed to the Justice Department on Friday.
The meetings were revealed in an 87-page disclosure obtained by The Hill that was filed by public affairs firm Mercury. Those forms retroactively register the firm as a foreign agent for work it did years ago.
posted by futz at 12:56 PM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Paul Manafort attended four lobbying meetings with members of Congress and Washington organizations while advising a pro-Russia Ukrainian political party, according to new disclosure forms filed to the Justice Department on Friday.
The meetings were revealed in an 87-page disclosure obtained by The Hill that was filed by public affairs firm Mercury. Those forms retroactively register the firm as a foreign agent for work it did years ago.
posted by futz at 12:56 PM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
The flags seem to continue all the way around the Oval Office now.
posted by Uncle Ira at 1:01 PM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Uncle Ira at 1:01 PM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Another tidbit from The Hill article.
Vin Weber, a partner at Mercury and former Republican congressman, brought Manafort to meetings with members of Congress, including one with former Rep. Jim Kolbe of Arizona, a board member at the International Republican Institute, in December 2012. He also brought Manafort to a meeting with Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.) in March 2013.
Doesn't Rep. Dana Rohrabacher keep popping up in odd places where Russia is concerned?
posted by futz at 1:04 PM on April 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
Vin Weber, a partner at Mercury and former Republican congressman, brought Manafort to meetings with members of Congress, including one with former Rep. Jim Kolbe of Arizona, a board member at the International Republican Institute, in December 2012. He also brought Manafort to a meeting with Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.) in March 2013.
Doesn't Rep. Dana Rohrabacher keep popping up in odd places where Russia is concerned?
posted by futz at 1:04 PM on April 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
I just want to put them in all in a machine that beams awareness of their stupidity and reckless endangerment of anything good that this country has into their heads so that they are overcome with shame.
I never really grokked the whole idea of the criminal is supposed to show remorse for his crimes and apologize to victims' families, really. It always struck me as sort of a Puritanical holdover.
But now I want an apology from these fuckers. I want to see Sessions crying with shame. I want to see Ivanka in the stocks. I am getting medieval with this shit.
And it's only the first one hundred days. Jesus.
posted by angrycat
Douglas Adams called it a Total Perspective Vortex.
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:05 PM on April 28, 2017 [18 favorites]
I never really grokked the whole idea of the criminal is supposed to show remorse for his crimes and apologize to victims' families, really. It always struck me as sort of a Puritanical holdover.
But now I want an apology from these fuckers. I want to see Sessions crying with shame. I want to see Ivanka in the stocks. I am getting medieval with this shit.
And it's only the first one hundred days. Jesus.
posted by angrycat
Douglas Adams called it a Total Perspective Vortex.
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:05 PM on April 28, 2017 [18 favorites]
To which the Trump-like protagonist displayed an unexpected, unique immunity.
posted by christopherious at 1:07 PM on April 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by christopherious at 1:07 PM on April 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
The Total You Should Shove Your Own Face Into Your Cereal Bowl Each Morning Until Decent People Can Look At You Without Triggering Their Gag Reflex Vortex was too wordy.
posted by delfin at 1:11 PM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by delfin at 1:11 PM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Well, it was explicitly stated that Beeblebrox's brain would have been destroyed by the Total Perspective Vortex in the real universe. He only survived it because it was in an artificial universe explicitly designed around him.
Trump, sadly, is in the real universe.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:12 PM on April 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
Trump, sadly, is in the real universe.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:12 PM on April 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
Are we in the real universe? [real]
posted by localhuman at 1:14 PM on April 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by localhuman at 1:14 PM on April 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
> Trump, sadly, is in the real universe.
objection, begs the question.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:14 PM on April 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
objection, begs the question.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:14 PM on April 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Or are we in the fake universe? [fake]
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:15 PM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:15 PM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Oh god, what if Trump's solipsism is correct and we're all figments/NPCs?
posted by contraption at 1:15 PM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by contraption at 1:15 PM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Hey, Beeblebrox was way more human than Trump.
posted by valkane at 1:16 PM on April 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by valkane at 1:16 PM on April 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
Guy kills a prisoner by dehydration, travels to Russia to met with one of Putin's deputies, the target of US sanctions, and lost a lawsuit for inviting people to proselytize at mandatory employee meetings, and they want to give him a job?
What? With those qualifications I'm only surprised he hasn't been hired already.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:17 PM on April 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
What? With those qualifications I'm only surprised he hasn't been hired already.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:17 PM on April 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Another day, another published interview. This one is with the Washington Examiner but I warn you if you want to read it, put a pillow on your desk top first so you don't end up with a bloody forehead. Highlights:
--For DACA "I always knew we needed a special heart." But the wall is going to stop human trafficking and drugs.
--"there are so many jobs in Washington, we don't want so many jobs. You don't need all of those people"
--" you know, the numbers just came out on the GDP for last year which were abysmal. 1.6 percent. Which is the lowest in five years. And, you know, if China does 7 percent, they consider it terrible. You have big countries in this world, major countries in this world, if they do 7, 8 or 9 percent they're not very happy, and here we are, we're a country at one percent and people don't even write about it"
--" sanctuary cities have been very, very dangerous, very, very bad. And, you know, we've done a great job on law enforcement, we've done a great job at the border. And all of our most talented people say sanctuary cities are a disaster."
"I'm a tremendous believer in clean water, clean air, and I've won environmental awards. But it also has to be fair. It can't put you at an economic disadvantage, or a disadvantage in other ways."
--" insurance companies are on their last legs in terms of staying. They're going to leave. And so many other places. So you really don't have Obamacare, because you have insurance companies that are all pulling out. So when people talk about Obamacare, it's really fiction."
There is so, so much more but read it at your peril and check your sanity at the door.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:22 PM on April 28, 2017 [18 favorites]
--For DACA "I always knew we needed a special heart." But the wall is going to stop human trafficking and drugs.
--"there are so many jobs in Washington, we don't want so many jobs. You don't need all of those people"
--" you know, the numbers just came out on the GDP for last year which were abysmal. 1.6 percent. Which is the lowest in five years. And, you know, if China does 7 percent, they consider it terrible. You have big countries in this world, major countries in this world, if they do 7, 8 or 9 percent they're not very happy, and here we are, we're a country at one percent and people don't even write about it"
--" sanctuary cities have been very, very dangerous, very, very bad. And, you know, we've done a great job on law enforcement, we've done a great job at the border. And all of our most talented people say sanctuary cities are a disaster."
"I'm a tremendous believer in clean water, clean air, and I've won environmental awards. But it also has to be fair. It can't put you at an economic disadvantage, or a disadvantage in other ways."
--" insurance companies are on their last legs in terms of staying. They're going to leave. And so many other places. So you really don't have Obamacare, because you have insurance companies that are all pulling out. So when people talk about Obamacare, it's really fiction."
There is so, so much more but read it at your peril and check your sanity at the door.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:22 PM on April 28, 2017 [18 favorites]
Funniest part of Trump saying he thought presidenting would be easier is he's taken 9 vacations and played golf 20 times in 99 days in office and that's not easy enough for him.
posted by chris24 at 1:29 PM on April 28, 2017 [66 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 1:29 PM on April 28, 2017 [66 favorites]
WaPo Op-Ed response from James Gorelick, Ivanka Trump's personal lawyer:
Ivanka Trump is following the rules
posted by Room 641-A at 1:34 PM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Ivanka Trump is following the rules
[...] Our public dialogue should not be driven by suggestions of corruption that rest on innuendo and inconsistent standards rather than facts and law. We should instead anchor our discussion in the law to objectively assess the present and constructively discuss the future.😁
posted by Room 641-A at 1:34 PM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
If Republicans Can’t Get This Lawmaker, Obamacare Repeal May Be Dead
Fred Upton says he's "not comfortable with" the AHCA. He's led the vote to repeal Obamacare a gazillion times, but now he says he's worried about high costs for people with pre-existing conditions.
If they can't get Upton, who do they have?
posted by zachlipton at 1:35 PM on April 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
Fred Upton says he's "not comfortable with" the AHCA. He's led the vote to repeal Obamacare a gazillion times, but now he says he's worried about high costs for people with pre-existing conditions.
If they can't get Upton, who do they have?
posted by zachlipton at 1:35 PM on April 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
We should instead anchor our discussion in the law to objectively assess the present and constructively discuss the future.
Law =/= Ethics
posted by melissasaurus at 1:36 PM on April 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
Law =/= Ethics
posted by melissasaurus at 1:36 PM on April 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
Trump seems to believe Puerto Rico is helping to shut down the American government. I had kind of hoped he didn't know we existed.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:36 PM on April 28, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:36 PM on April 28, 2017 [20 favorites]
> Our public dialogue should not be driven by suggestions of corruption that rest on innuendo and inconsistent standards rather than facts and law. We should instead anchor our discussion in the law to objectively assess the present and constructively discuss the future.
But her emails...
Lock her up! Lock her up!
Wiretapping!
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:37 PM on April 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
But her emails...
Lock her up! Lock her up!
Wiretapping!
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:37 PM on April 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
Upton funks them up.
Upton funks them up.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:38 PM on April 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
Upton funks them up.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:38 PM on April 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
White House Weighs Kicking Out Sebastian Gorka [by moving him somewhere farther away from them, but you know, still in the government]:
posted by zachlipton at 1:42 PM on April 28, 2017 [26 favorites]
The Trump administration is actively exploring options to remove controversial national security aide Sebastian Gorka from the White House and place him at another federal agency, multiple sources tell The Daily Beast.Or as @emptywheel puts it: "BREAKING: Long-time Apprentice Reality TV Show star suddenly unable to say, "You're fired."
Two senior administration officials familiar with the situation say it is exploring a new role for Gorka elsewhere in the administration. Another said he has been entirely excluded from day-to-day policy-making at the National Security Council in the meantime.
posted by zachlipton at 1:42 PM on April 28, 2017 [26 favorites]
Matthew Yglesias/Vox.com: Donald Trump’s first 100 days have been a moneymaking success story
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:44 PM on April 28, 2017 [50 favorites]
From the day Trump announced his candidacy until the day he took the Oval Office, the smart take on him was that he was running on a lark, as a publicity stunt, or to lay the groundwork for some business endeavor.Also, Vox is on top of their URL game.
Yet since his ascension to the White House, conventional wisdom has developed an odd tendency to describe his inability to make major legislative changes as an indication that his presidency is failing. It's certainly true that Paul Ryan’s speakership of the House is failing, arguable that Mitch McConnell’s tenure as majority leader of the Senate is failing, and indisputably true that the Koch brothers’ drive to infuse hardcore libertarian ideological zeal into the GOP is failing.
But Trump isn’t failing. He and his family appear to be making money hand over fist. It's a spectacle the likes of which we've never seen in the United States, and while it may end in disaster for the Trumps someday, for now it shows no real sign of failure.
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:44 PM on April 28, 2017 [50 favorites]
Oh god, what if Trump's solipsism is correct and we're all figments/NPCs?
I worry the king is unwell.
There's a rumor that some of the king's advisors have been colluding with our enemies.
The king has been taking a suspicious number of vacations.
Watch out for trolls after dark.
Craig, who lives behind the convenience store, will sell you rare herbs.
It is dangerous to go alone. Take this: 🐈
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:46 PM on April 28, 2017 [23 favorites]
I worry the king is unwell.
There's a rumor that some of the king's advisors have been colluding with our enemies.
The king has been taking a suspicious number of vacations.
Watch out for trolls after dark.
Craig, who lives behind the convenience store, will sell you rare herbs.
It is dangerous to go alone. Take this: 🐈
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:46 PM on April 28, 2017 [23 favorites]
I used to be an adventurer like you but then I took an arrow to the knee and Trumpcare considers that a pre-existing condition. The knee, I mean.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:58 PM on April 28, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:58 PM on April 28, 2017 [15 favorites]
Legit fucking LOL at this walkback:
Dallas Morning News:
Y'know, like maybe.... the Rio Grande?
posted by marshmallow peep at 1:58 PM on April 28, 2017 [19 favorites]
Dallas Morning News:
President Donald Trump said on Friday that his long-desired wall on the U.S.-Mexico border will be in "certain areas." He said "you don't need" it where "you have these massive physical structures" or "you have certain big rivers."
Y'know, like maybe.... the Rio Grande?
posted by marshmallow peep at 1:58 PM on April 28, 2017 [19 favorites]
It turns out, however that we know a much better way to incentivize businesses to invest their profits instead of pay them out in dividends and executive salaries. Tax them more. If you tax huge salaries and capital gains at exorbitant rates, executives will direct profits back into the business while settling for a large but not insane salary for themselves.
This is so obvious, too, when you look at it. I worked in state-funded programs a lot. At the end of the fiscal year there was always an orgy of spending to use up all their annual funds, because if they didn't the state would take that money back and also reduce their budget for the next year. So we got new office chairs and TVs and computers (that we totally needed). When faced with either investing the money in the business or losing it, obviously people are going to invest it into making their employees happier and the work easier. While also injecting that money into the retail economy. But if the choice is invest it in their business or buy themselves a boat? Well...
It's been very interesting to watch the restaurant where my husband is a manager deal with the issue of wages recently. Their wages for kitchen workers was really, really low. And, hey, guess what, they couldn't keep staff. They attracted unskilled and inexperienced workers, people who were unreliable. Even their best cooks, who were all undocumented immigrants, could make better money working in other restaurants and so had another job they gave priority to.
So finally, faced with the whole place almost shutting down due to lack of staff, they've gotten permission to increase wages. So now they're advertising up to $15/hour and getting decent applicants. And giving raises to the people who deserve them, so they hopefully stick around. And all this is, I suppose, the market working in the way conservatives think it should. Even though it's taken far longer for wages to be increased than it should have, and took the specter of the restaurant having to close to do it.
But this is also in a small town. One of the big problems is that there simply isn't a large pool of labor here. There are only so many cooks in this town, or people willing to train to cook, especially for low wages. In an area with larger population this wouldn't be such a problem. The restaurant could rely on having a constant turnover of moderately skilled cooks coming and going, or always having a pool of undocumented immigrants willing to work for minimum wage. It probably wouldn't be a very well-run kitchen with that kind of turnover, but it would meet minimum standards of turning out food.
I don't know what my point is exactly, but the idea that businesses would just give out raises to their employees if they weren't forced to is fundamentally flawed. Maybe the occasional small business does that, when the owner is personally involved in the running. But most businesses are corporations. My husband, as kitchen manager, had no authority to give his cooks raises, even though he knew how much they deserved and needed them. He had to wait until things were dire enough that the regional manager approved wage increases. That only happens when the bottom line is being affected.
posted by threeturtles at 2:03 PM on April 28, 2017 [19 favorites]
This is so obvious, too, when you look at it. I worked in state-funded programs a lot. At the end of the fiscal year there was always an orgy of spending to use up all their annual funds, because if they didn't the state would take that money back and also reduce their budget for the next year. So we got new office chairs and TVs and computers (that we totally needed). When faced with either investing the money in the business or losing it, obviously people are going to invest it into making their employees happier and the work easier. While also injecting that money into the retail economy. But if the choice is invest it in their business or buy themselves a boat? Well...
It's been very interesting to watch the restaurant where my husband is a manager deal with the issue of wages recently. Their wages for kitchen workers was really, really low. And, hey, guess what, they couldn't keep staff. They attracted unskilled and inexperienced workers, people who were unreliable. Even their best cooks, who were all undocumented immigrants, could make better money working in other restaurants and so had another job they gave priority to.
So finally, faced with the whole place almost shutting down due to lack of staff, they've gotten permission to increase wages. So now they're advertising up to $15/hour and getting decent applicants. And giving raises to the people who deserve them, so they hopefully stick around. And all this is, I suppose, the market working in the way conservatives think it should. Even though it's taken far longer for wages to be increased than it should have, and took the specter of the restaurant having to close to do it.
But this is also in a small town. One of the big problems is that there simply isn't a large pool of labor here. There are only so many cooks in this town, or people willing to train to cook, especially for low wages. In an area with larger population this wouldn't be such a problem. The restaurant could rely on having a constant turnover of moderately skilled cooks coming and going, or always having a pool of undocumented immigrants willing to work for minimum wage. It probably wouldn't be a very well-run kitchen with that kind of turnover, but it would meet minimum standards of turning out food.
I don't know what my point is exactly, but the idea that businesses would just give out raises to their employees if they weren't forced to is fundamentally flawed. Maybe the occasional small business does that, when the owner is personally involved in the running. But most businesses are corporations. My husband, as kitchen manager, had no authority to give his cooks raises, even though he knew how much they deserved and needed them. He had to wait until things were dire enough that the regional manager approved wage increases. That only happens when the bottom line is being affected.
posted by threeturtles at 2:03 PM on April 28, 2017 [19 favorites]
> President Donald Trump said on Friday that his long-desired wall on the U.S.-Mexico border will be in "certain areas."
Why, you nincompoop! You incompetent half-wit! Did you really ... AAAAGH!
> Brain explodes <
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:03 PM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Why, you nincompoop! You incompetent half-wit! Did you really ... AAAAGH!
> Brain explodes <
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:03 PM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
MSNBC's make over to FOX News-lite continues,
It gets worse: Conservative Radio Host Hugh Hewitt in Talks for MSNBC Show, Sources Say
posted by zachlipton at 2:08 PM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
It gets worse: Conservative Radio Host Hugh Hewitt in Talks for MSNBC Show, Sources Say
posted by zachlipton at 2:08 PM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Something really minor but stuck in my head all day was when Trump was complaining about how tough it was to be President in that Reuters interview, he said he really missed driving himself. I'm sure I read that he hasn't driven for many years--in fact there was a question as to whether he still had a license. So something he hasn't done for many years but he misses being able to do it now because he is President.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:09 PM on April 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:09 PM on April 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
> It gets worse: Conservative Radio Host Hugh Hewitt in Talks for MSNBC Show, Sources Say
FAIL FAIL FAIL. WTF are you doing, MSNBC?
posted by tonycpsu at 2:14 PM on April 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
FAIL FAIL FAIL. WTF are you doing, MSNBC?
posted by tonycpsu at 2:14 PM on April 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
I'm sure Donny will be completely rational and not jump at the opportunity to do something stupid before his 100 days is up.
Breaking: North Korea Test-Fires a Ballistic Missile
posted by chris24 at 2:21 PM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Breaking: North Korea Test-Fires a Ballistic Missile
posted by chris24 at 2:21 PM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
WaPo Op-Ed response from James Gorelick, Ivanka Trump's personal lawyer:
Small point, but it's Jamie Gorelick, who's a woman.
posted by AwkwardPause at 2:22 PM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Small point, but it's Jamie Gorelick, who's a woman.
posted by AwkwardPause at 2:22 PM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
I suspect it wasn't an accident that North Korea waited right up to Trump's 100 day mark to test a missile, passing over various recent key dates in their national and military history instead.
posted by zachlipton at 2:31 PM on April 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 2:31 PM on April 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
"I'm a tremendous believer in clean water, clean air, and I've won environmental awards. But it also has to be fair. It can't put you at an economic disadvantage, or a disadvantage in other ways."
He keeps repeating this lie! Here is a comment I made in January.
WaPo Fact Checker: Trump’s unsupported claim he has ‘received awards on the environment’
“I’m a very big person when it comes to the environment. I have received awards on the environment.”
— President Trump, remarks during a meeting with business leaders, Jan. 23
Are there any facts to support this claim to environmental fame?
-- The short answer is: No. Media outlets and environmental groups have tried to find evidence of this claim since 2011 but have come up short.
-- In fact, environmentalists have criticized many of Trump’s projects.
-- During the 2008 hearing, Trump said he didn’t read his environmental consultants’ advice because he didn’t need to. From the Wall Street Journal’s coverage of the hearing:
“I would consider myself an environmentalist in the true sense of the word,” Mr. Trump said, a comment that drew so much laughter from the public gallery that the inquiry chairman had to call for order.
-- In 2010, environmentalists criticized Trump for chopping down more than 400 trees along the Potomac River during a renovation of his golf course in Loudoun County, Va.
posted by futz at 2:32 PM on April 28, 2017 [17 favorites]
He keeps repeating this lie! Here is a comment I made in January.
WaPo Fact Checker: Trump’s unsupported claim he has ‘received awards on the environment’
“I’m a very big person when it comes to the environment. I have received awards on the environment.”
— President Trump, remarks during a meeting with business leaders, Jan. 23
Are there any facts to support this claim to environmental fame?
-- The short answer is: No. Media outlets and environmental groups have tried to find evidence of this claim since 2011 but have come up short.
-- In fact, environmentalists have criticized many of Trump’s projects.
-- During the 2008 hearing, Trump said he didn’t read his environmental consultants’ advice because he didn’t need to. From the Wall Street Journal’s coverage of the hearing:
“I would consider myself an environmentalist in the true sense of the word,” Mr. Trump said, a comment that drew so much laughter from the public gallery that the inquiry chairman had to call for order.
-- In 2010, environmentalists criticized Trump for chopping down more than 400 trees along the Potomac River during a renovation of his golf course in Loudoun County, Va.
posted by futz at 2:32 PM on April 28, 2017 [17 favorites]
This one time, he put his empty coke can in a recycle bin.
posted by emjaybee at 2:35 PM on April 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 2:35 PM on April 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
South Korea's military reportedly says this test failed too.
posted by zachlipton at 2:45 PM on April 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 2:45 PM on April 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Right-Wing German Soldier Disguised as a Refugee
posted by XMLicious at 2:54 PM on April 28, 2017 [4 favorites]A suspected right-wing extremist German army officer is thought to have been planning an attack. As part of his preparation, he registered as a refugee from Syria.
Maybe he's received awards while standing on natural grass?
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:57 PM on April 28, 2017
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:57 PM on April 28, 2017
Conservative political terrorist attacks Democrats with knife in Transylvania (University, in Kentucky)
posted by darkstar at 3:05 PM on April 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by darkstar at 3:05 PM on April 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Trump was complaining about how tough it was to be President in that Reuters interview, he said he really missed driving himself. I'm sure I read that he hasn't driven for many years--in fact there was a question as to whether he still had a license.
I've been wondering about that myself, the most recent picture of Trump driving I've found is Feb 2014.
posted by peeedro at 3:10 PM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
I've been wondering about that myself, the most recent picture of Trump driving I've found is Feb 2014.
posted by peeedro at 3:10 PM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Ugh. He attacked 2 women with a machete.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:11 PM on April 28, 2017
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:11 PM on April 28, 2017
Between the GOP passing legislation that allows motorists to run over protesters and the NRA signing people up for insurance in case they shoot someone, I'm starting to feel a little paranoid. This machete guy asked people's political affiliations before attacking and told Republicans they were safe. I think he might have gotten the (mistaken? subliminal?) message from Party leaders, including our President, that attacking liberals was perfectly acceptable.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:18 PM on April 28, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:18 PM on April 28, 2017 [12 favorites]
I just realized the true nature of the executive order supposedly requiring that for every new regulation, two regulations be repealed. It actually says that the executive agency "shall identify at least two existing regulations to be repealed". As in, "by the way, here are two regulations which exist and which you could in theory repeal". Similarly, the agency shall identify two colors of unicorn to be willed into existence.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:18 PM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:18 PM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
> I think he might have gotten the (mistaken? subliminal?) message
Intended.
posted by tonycpsu at 3:19 PM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Intended.
posted by tonycpsu at 3:19 PM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
the most recent picture of Trump driving I've found is Feb 2014.
Oh ye of little faith; this is from earlier this month
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:21 PM on April 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Oh ye of little faith; this is from earlier this month
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:21 PM on April 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Shades of the Garissa attack in Kenya, where they went through asking who was Muslim and who was Christian.
posted by XMLicious at 3:23 PM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by XMLicious at 3:23 PM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
It actually says that the executive agency "shall identify at least two existing regulations to be repealed". As in, "by the way, here are two regulations which exist and which you could in theory repeal"
Most of his EOs are like that-- they seem more like photo-ops for the base than orders that actually accomplish anything. They suggest that meetings be held or inquiries be made. Exploratory EOs rather than concrete changes in government. The two travel bans that were more than just information gathering were struck down by the courts.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:27 PM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Most of his EOs are like that-- they seem more like photo-ops for the base than orders that actually accomplish anything. They suggest that meetings be held or inquiries be made. Exploratory EOs rather than concrete changes in government. The two travel bans that were more than just information gathering were struck down by the courts.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:27 PM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Ugh. This machete attack seems like a prelude to something much, much worse. Pay attention to who condemns the attack and what language they use, but also pay attention to who doesn't condemn it.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:27 PM on April 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:27 PM on April 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
Well, Trump won't, obviously.
posted by Artw at 3:40 PM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 3:40 PM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
I think he might have gotten the (mistaken? subliminal?) message
Intended.
I am hoping that Republican leaders are not really egging their followers on to engage in violence against the opposition. (I mean I know Trump did at his rallies but he is a crazy person and thoughtless.) Because we would be in worse shape than I thought if that was the case.
What I think is happening at this moment is Republicans have been playing with fire, rousing their base, but don't expect full on warfare in the streets. A few people not right in the head may take them at their word but most Americans are not primed to commit murder for political differences.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:40 PM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Intended.
I am hoping that Republican leaders are not really egging their followers on to engage in violence against the opposition. (I mean I know Trump did at his rallies but he is a crazy person and thoughtless.) Because we would be in worse shape than I thought if that was the case.
What I think is happening at this moment is Republicans have been playing with fire, rousing their base, but don't expect full on warfare in the streets. A few people not right in the head may take them at their word but most Americans are not primed to commit murder for political differences.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:40 PM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
zachlipton: Trump seems to have added two more. A second Presidential Seal flag, and a US Army flag (won't the other branches be jealous?). There appears to be something on the US Army flag too; it looks like banners from various military campaigns. I can make out "Chickamauga 1863, "France," and "Burma."
The flags seem to have been added recently from what I can tell.
Previous US Presidents including JFK, LBJ, and Nixon have decorated the Oval Office with similar military flags (and perhaps the same flag?) during their administrations. See historical photos at Cote de Texas — President Trump's New Oval Office Decor, January 17, 2017.
posted by cenoxo at 3:40 PM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
The flags seem to have been added recently from what I can tell.
Previous US Presidents including JFK, LBJ, and Nixon have decorated the Oval Office with similar military flags (and perhaps the same flag?) during their administrations. See historical photos at Cote de Texas — President Trump's New Oval Office Decor, January 17, 2017.
posted by cenoxo at 3:40 PM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Ethics Chief: Some Trump Nominees Push Back On Ethics Rules With ‘Ferocity’
Some of the Trump administration’s nominees have pushed back against the government’s ethics requirements with “a ferocity we’ve not previously seen,” Walter Shaub, the director of the U.S. Office of Government Ethics, told a top White House lawyer in an email this week.
Shaub was responding to Reince Priebus, President Donald Trump’s chief of staff, who, when asked on Fox News Wednesday why the White House has been slow to fill key positions, claimed that many nominees were “sitting and waiting for OGE.”
-- By April 25, 2009, OGE had received 100 percent of the nominee reports it needed from the Obama administration, compared to 46 percent from the Trump administration by April 25, 2017, according to the OGE document.
There are about 92 nominee reports that OGE has received but not finished going through. The office said it received 75 percent of those reports within the past 30 days.
-- ...But emails show that when OGE tried early on to make contact with the Trump transition team, aides were unresponsive.
-- But, he added, “the last thing we need for the morale of our nominee reviewers is to have the Chief of Staff to the President smearing them with false information.”
posted by futz at 3:44 PM on April 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
Some of the Trump administration’s nominees have pushed back against the government’s ethics requirements with “a ferocity we’ve not previously seen,” Walter Shaub, the director of the U.S. Office of Government Ethics, told a top White House lawyer in an email this week.
Shaub was responding to Reince Priebus, President Donald Trump’s chief of staff, who, when asked on Fox News Wednesday why the White House has been slow to fill key positions, claimed that many nominees were “sitting and waiting for OGE.”
-- By April 25, 2009, OGE had received 100 percent of the nominee reports it needed from the Obama administration, compared to 46 percent from the Trump administration by April 25, 2017, according to the OGE document.
There are about 92 nominee reports that OGE has received but not finished going through. The office said it received 75 percent of those reports within the past 30 days.
-- ...But emails show that when OGE tried early on to make contact with the Trump transition team, aides were unresponsive.
-- But, he added, “the last thing we need for the morale of our nominee reviewers is to have the Chief of Staff to the President smearing them with false information.”
posted by futz at 3:44 PM on April 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
See also: Listing of the Campaigns of the U.S. Army Displayed on the Army Flag.
posted by cenoxo at 3:52 PM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by cenoxo at 3:52 PM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
The 100 most Donald Trump quotes about his first 100 days
posted by kirkaracha at 3:53 PM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by kirkaracha at 3:53 PM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Highly dimensional chess:
- Shittalk a little about a shutdown
- Let Congress pass a temporary spending resolution
- Do not sign it, a 7-day extension being less than the 10-day period for the pocket veto
- No one notices
- Gov't agencies continuing operating
- With no resolution, this is grossly unconstitutional tyranny
- A REAL SHUTDOWN
... do we need more Democrats with swords? I ask 'cause I -have- one, but I'm pretty sure even carrying it in public is illegal here.
posted by Archelaus at 3:56 PM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Archelaus at 3:56 PM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
The rest of the world is now on notice, even if we elect someone sane in 2020, that at any given time we might be less than 4 years away from electing another clown shitshow like this one.
Reagan, Harding, Taft, Shrub2...and I mean did you see that blowjob impeachment scandal in the 90's wtf was that.
They've always known. Historical lack of internet doesn't apply. Step back from the US and view it from the outside, and our shit is not sane. Like, slavery and the world's first modern democracy? Trump is a particularly bad episode, but watching it all proceed, watching satire come true time and time again, one thing is clear - we have always known, and we have always been sick. The US perseveres in spite of itself because decent people work their asses off to keep it afloat. The rest of the world knows that too. Chill out.
posted by saysthis at 3:59 PM on April 28, 2017 [15 favorites]
Reagan, Harding, Taft, Shrub2...and I mean did you see that blowjob impeachment scandal in the 90's wtf was that.
They've always known. Historical lack of internet doesn't apply. Step back from the US and view it from the outside, and our shit is not sane. Like, slavery and the world's first modern democracy? Trump is a particularly bad episode, but watching it all proceed, watching satire come true time and time again, one thing is clear - we have always known, and we have always been sick. The US perseveres in spite of itself because decent people work their asses off to keep it afloat. The rest of the world knows that too. Chill out.
posted by saysthis at 3:59 PM on April 28, 2017 [15 favorites]
I just found out the other day that in Sweden when you earn your PhD it comes with a sword. Maybe we all need to go get our PhDs in Sweden. Or just buy a sword. That would probably be cheaper.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:59 PM on April 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:59 PM on April 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
So Congress passed a CR to kick the can down the road a week, but any word on whether Trump has signed it?
He doesn't need to. Unless he actively vetoes it, which is a small amount of work and so anathema, it just becomes law in a week.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:15 PM on April 28, 2017
He doesn't need to. Unless he actively vetoes it, which is a small amount of work and so anathema, it just becomes law in a week.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:15 PM on April 28, 2017
So Congress passed a CR to kick the can down the road a week, but any word on whether Trump has signed it?
He doesn’t need to. Unless he actively vetoes it, which is a small amount of work and so anathema, it just becomes law in a week.
A week is too late in this instance, surely?
posted by Going To Maine at 4:19 PM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
He doesn’t need to. Unless he actively vetoes it, which is a small amount of work and so anathema, it just becomes law in a week.
A week is too late in this instance, surely?
posted by Going To Maine at 4:19 PM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
I just found out the other day that in Sweden when you earn your PhD it comes with a sword.
man they take defending your thesis really fucking seriously
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:22 PM on April 28, 2017 [61 favorites]
man they take defending your thesis really fucking seriously
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:22 PM on April 28, 2017 [61 favorites]
_What I think is happening at this moment is Republicans have been playing with fire, rousing their base, but don't expect full on warfare in the streets. A few people not right in the head may take them at their word but most Americans are not primed to commit murder for political differences.
I think, and this is uncomfortable to admit but I think must be said, that a lot of Republicans, including myself, thought we were talking to adults, that there were a lot more adults in the world than I now currently believe. That we assumed most people who shared our political persuasion were fundamentally like ourselves- people who learned civics at home and took it really seriously, and thought really hard about things. We saw the Democrats' uneducated members and thought they were the only ones who had a mob - that the people who weren't going to college were still reading about things at home from their parents.
Because if you're talking to people who read philosophy and think about it, then saying things like "the American people must be prepared for revolution if tyranny comes" comes with an automatic consideration of what, precisely, tyranny actually means, and if we are there or are likely to ever be there. It's much more a "break glass in case of tyranny" than a "yep, maybe next year folks!" When you say "we need to be ready in case the communists come", it's more of the sense of the adventurer whose father has kept a sword under his bed for thirty years, rather than the guy suspiciously eyeing everyone to see if they have read Marx.
And that's just not the case. The people who are thoughtful and involved in the party are not the same people going to Trump rallies with Spartan helmets. We have our own mob, and they are larger and angrier and more prone to violence than we thought, and they are nothing like us so we don't know how to disarm them. It's incredibly disheartening, and honestly I despair for our country overall. I don't know what to do with its uneducated portion.
posted by corb at 4:28 PM on April 28, 2017 [26 favorites]
I think, and this is uncomfortable to admit but I think must be said, that a lot of Republicans, including myself, thought we were talking to adults, that there were a lot more adults in the world than I now currently believe. That we assumed most people who shared our political persuasion were fundamentally like ourselves- people who learned civics at home and took it really seriously, and thought really hard about things. We saw the Democrats' uneducated members and thought they were the only ones who had a mob - that the people who weren't going to college were still reading about things at home from their parents.
Because if you're talking to people who read philosophy and think about it, then saying things like "the American people must be prepared for revolution if tyranny comes" comes with an automatic consideration of what, precisely, tyranny actually means, and if we are there or are likely to ever be there. It's much more a "break glass in case of tyranny" than a "yep, maybe next year folks!" When you say "we need to be ready in case the communists come", it's more of the sense of the adventurer whose father has kept a sword under his bed for thirty years, rather than the guy suspiciously eyeing everyone to see if they have read Marx.
And that's just not the case. The people who are thoughtful and involved in the party are not the same people going to Trump rallies with Spartan helmets. We have our own mob, and they are larger and angrier and more prone to violence than we thought, and they are nothing like us so we don't know how to disarm them. It's incredibly disheartening, and honestly I despair for our country overall. I don't know what to do with its uneducated portion.
posted by corb at 4:28 PM on April 28, 2017 [26 favorites]
Listing of the Campaigns of the U.S. Army Displayed on the Army Flag.
Weird. They have "Bull Run" for the battle in 1861 and "Manassas" for the 1862 sequel. "Manassas" is the Confederate name for the battle. Since it's a US Army flag it should say "1st Bull Run" and "2nd Bull Run."
posted by kirkaracha at 4:28 PM on April 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
Do not sign it, a 7-day extension being less than the 10-day period for the pocket veto
I forgot that the pocket veto was specifically limited in the Constitution - that's probably a useful talking point for constitutionally limiting the bullshit McConnell pulled with Garland, it's essentially the same thing. After 10 days, nominations should be forced to move to the floor for a vote.
posted by jason_steakums at 4:30 PM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
I forgot that the pocket veto was specifically limited in the Constitution - that's probably a useful talking point for constitutionally limiting the bullshit McConnell pulled with Garland, it's essentially the same thing. After 10 days, nominations should be forced to move to the floor for a vote.
posted by jason_steakums at 4:30 PM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Stephen A. Crockett Jr., TheRoot.com: 100 Days In: The Hate That Hate Created
It was clear during his run for the White House that Trump was out of his depth, but he appealed to a sect of America that hated former President Obama because he was a black man. Trump ran on a platform of hate, and those who agree with his brand of vitriol voted for him. Maybe all 59 million of those who voted for Trump weren’t racist, but they had no problem voting for a man who is, and to those voters, it doesn’t matter that he’s in bed with Russia, or that he won’t fulfill any of the promises he made while running for office. It doesn’t matter to them that he vacations almost as much as he’s in office, or that he’s costing taxpayers billions of dollars.posted by ZeusHumms at 4:32 PM on April 28, 2017 [31 favorites]
They are willing to ignore the continual lies that come from this administration, and the 100 days of proof that nothing he says means anything. Trump hates who racists hate, and in the eyes of Trump voters, they will continue to root for their brand of demagoguery and push for this sham of a president to stay in office because he hates the way they do, and they love that more than the lies he tells or the promises he can’t keep.
@realDonaldTrump: North Korea disrespected the wishes of China & its highly respected President when it launched, though unsuccessfully, a missile today. Bad!
"Bad!" ?
We're all going to die.
posted by zachlipton at 4:33 PM on April 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
"Bad!" ?
We're all going to die.
posted by zachlipton at 4:33 PM on April 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump: North Korea disrespected the wishes of China & its highly respected President when it launched, though unsuccessfully, a missile today. Bad!
I really want to read the behind-the-scenes account of who got Trump to toe a totally different line with China and how they did it. I feel like somebody, maybe Xi, outlined in VERY specific detail how that trade war Donnie was barreling towards would have gone and it scared him shitless. He turned his China saber rattling around fast and he's not the kind of person who will easily stop saying and doing dumb shit.
posted by jason_steakums at 4:38 PM on April 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
I really want to read the behind-the-scenes account of who got Trump to toe a totally different line with China and how they did it. I feel like somebody, maybe Xi, outlined in VERY specific detail how that trade war Donnie was barreling towards would have gone and it scared him shitless. He turned his China saber rattling around fast and he's not the kind of person who will easily stop saying and doing dumb shit.
posted by jason_steakums at 4:38 PM on April 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Democrats build. Republicans demolish.
posted by yoga at 4:43 PM on April 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by yoga at 4:43 PM on April 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
Turns out another thing is the matter with Kansas: Brownback wants $24 million to keep guns out of psychiatric hospitals
They passed a law there that says they have to allow concealed weapons at public hospitals and college campuses, starting July 1. There's an exception, but only if you have metal detectors, armed guards, maybe even secure storage for weapons. Now the state is on the hook for millions of dollars in costs because they don't want guns in state psychiatric facilities.
posted by zachlipton at 4:47 PM on April 28, 2017 [17 favorites]
They passed a law there that says they have to allow concealed weapons at public hospitals and college campuses, starting July 1. There's an exception, but only if you have metal detectors, armed guards, maybe even secure storage for weapons. Now the state is on the hook for millions of dollars in costs because they don't want guns in state psychiatric facilities.
posted by zachlipton at 4:47 PM on April 28, 2017 [17 favorites]
I made a poorly made "Presidenting Hard" picture for your convenient sharing.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:51 PM on April 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:51 PM on April 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
I just found out the other day that in Sweden when you earn your PhD it comes with a sword.
man they take defending your thesis really fucking seriously
Fittingly, they give you the sword after you no longer need to defend yourself.
posted by Going To Maine at 4:52 PM on April 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
man they take defending your thesis really fucking seriously
Fittingly, they give you the sword after you no longer need to defend yourself.
posted by Going To Maine at 4:52 PM on April 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
I really want to read the behind-the-scenes account of who got Trump to toe a totally different line with China
Wasn't there a story a month or 2 ago about how China was giving Trump the rights to the Trump brand name in China? I had just assumed that was what led Trump to a reversal on all things China.
posted by willnot at 4:53 PM on April 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
Wasn't there a story a month or 2 ago about how China was giving Trump the rights to the Trump brand name in China? I had just assumed that was what led Trump to a reversal on all things China.
posted by willnot at 4:53 PM on April 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
I feel like somebody, maybe Xi, outlined in VERY specific detail how that trade war Donnie was barreling towards would have gone and it scared him shitless.
I don't think he is swayed by, appreciates, or can understand and deal with specific details. I think Kushner or Favored Daughter or someone else he whatever-he-does-where-normal-humans-have-trust just said "Donnie, that would be bad. Then nobody would like you." And that was all it took.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:55 PM on April 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
I don't think he is swayed by, appreciates, or can understand and deal with specific details. I think Kushner or Favored Daughter or someone else he whatever-he-does-where-normal-humans-have-trust just said "Donnie, that would be bad. Then nobody would like you." And that was all it took.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:55 PM on April 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
WaPo: ICE data shows half of immigrants arrested in raids had traffic convictions or no record:
About half of the 675 immigrants picked up in roundups across the United States in the days after President Trump took office either had no criminal convictions or had committed traffic offenses, mostly drunken driving, as their most serious crimes, according to data obtained by The Washington Post.posted by zachlipton at 5:01 PM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
I wish they hadn't constructed their story that way. People with no record or a not-reckless speeding ticket are Not The Same as people with a conviction for a serious and life-threatening offense like drunk driving.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:12 PM on April 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:12 PM on April 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
Trump did sign the continuing resolution. Supposedly there's going to be a 2017 omnibus, but tune in next week viewers.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:18 PM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:18 PM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Lol. WaPo White House Bureau Chief Philip Rucker told Chris Hayes that Trump asked him during their 100 day interview to run the election map on the front page of the Post with the story.
posted by chris24 at 5:20 PM on April 28, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 5:20 PM on April 28, 2017 [21 favorites]
He knows that he didn't win legitimately, and that's why he can't shut up about it.
posted by valkane at 5:33 PM on April 28, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by valkane at 5:33 PM on April 28, 2017 [18 favorites]
I just got word that EPA is updating its website to "reflect the agency’s new direction under President Donald Trump and Administrator Scott Pruitt." Oh boy.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 5:33 PM on April 28, 2017
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 5:33 PM on April 28, 2017
So, looking from the outside in, as we've been approaching the 100 day mark, I'm beginning to realise that I could get behind the idea of the US building a border wall, but do you think it could be extended right around the coastline and we could get a roof put on top too? You can leave the keys outside.
posted by walrus at 5:36 PM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by walrus at 5:36 PM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm still boggling over Trump's North Korea tweet. It's so weird that he frames it in terms of "disrespect[ing]" China and its President, but not us or anybody else. Like he views this solely as China's problem, and we're just the cheerleaders to provide encouragement? We've got ~30,000 troops stationed in South Korea, so it really doesn't work to just pretend we've not at all involved.
posted by zachlipton at 5:39 PM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 5:39 PM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
I think, and this is uncomfortable to admit but I think must be said, that a lot of Republicans, including myself, thought we were talking to adults, that there were a lot more adults in the world than I now currently believe. That we assumed most people who shared our political persuasion were fundamentally like ourselves- people who learned civics at home and took it really seriously, and thought really hard about things. We saw the Democrats' uneducated members and thought they were the only ones who had a mob - that the people who weren't going to college were still reading about things at home from their parents.
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it." So said Tommy Lee Jones, and he was more of a prophet than he knew. I may not be a conservative or Republican, nor do I ever plan to be, but a thinking conservative is welcome in my house because he or she _is on our team_.
Ignorance in America is nothing new. Neither are class warfare, racial strife, sexual discrimination, religious bigotry or bought-and-paid-for politicians. Every decade in American history has its lowlights to which I could point, particularly when you consider that in much of America, LGBTs were considered legally mentally ill, blacks could be refused services or housing or schooling or marriage due to skin color, and women couldn't even get the ERA to the floor within the lifetimes of many people reading these words right now.
If you want to chart where America really hit the wall, where the "thinking American" idea collapsed, go back to the mid-eighties because that is where the conservative think tanks' strategy kicked into high gear. A well-educated populace is a lot harder to control than one fed by an echo chamber, trained to react how they're told, vote how they're told, protest how they're told. Political broadcasts were deregulated, media consolidation was deregulated, under Reagan way too fucking much of America was deregulated but THOSE are where the major damage started, because it led to what we have now.
Right now you can be a Republican who has a real interest, someone who reads, someone who wants to know more about our country and our world and our politics and _still_ be a dangerous shithead if you are caught up in the echo chamber. The whole goddamn AM radio dial, their own TV networks, their own newspapers, their own talking heads on 'mainstream' programs, and that's before you figure in email chains morphing into message boards, bloggers, Twitter and Facebook walls. It is so easy to believe utter bullshit when you hear it from multiple sources, read it in multiple places, see people you know repeating it on social media, watch it on the TV and are told that the OTHER side are the liars. Trump's FAKE NEWS! rants are just a gloriously inelegant way of presenting that, but that has been the driving force behind modern conservatism since the Reagan years. Truths that are inconvenient are meaningless if they're drowned out until your patsies _don't believe them_ or their sources any more.
And, no, this is not a completely uniquely conservative thing. There are left-wing dingbats too. But they're like a whisper being drowned out by a tsunami in terms of media penetration and effectiveness.
This is why, back when the RNC was going on and you were fighting the good fight on the floor, some of us were yelling that #NeverTrump was one thing but that it was an inherently doomed enterprise because what was the alternative? Ted Cruz with a puncher's chance at the White House? In a lot of ways that was SCARIER because Cruz is just as sociopathic but has some actual grasp of how to _use_ that power.
We're no longer liberal versus conservative, left versus right. We are thinkers, planners and patriots versus the corrupt leading the deluded, the misinformed, the mistaught and the uncaring. We are Reason versus Apathy, all the more difficult a battle to win because to join our side one must make a conscious decision to do so and consciousness isn't all that prized around here these days.
Batter up.
posted by delfin at 5:42 PM on April 28, 2017 [107 favorites]
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it." So said Tommy Lee Jones, and he was more of a prophet than he knew. I may not be a conservative or Republican, nor do I ever plan to be, but a thinking conservative is welcome in my house because he or she _is on our team_.
Ignorance in America is nothing new. Neither are class warfare, racial strife, sexual discrimination, religious bigotry or bought-and-paid-for politicians. Every decade in American history has its lowlights to which I could point, particularly when you consider that in much of America, LGBTs were considered legally mentally ill, blacks could be refused services or housing or schooling or marriage due to skin color, and women couldn't even get the ERA to the floor within the lifetimes of many people reading these words right now.
If you want to chart where America really hit the wall, where the "thinking American" idea collapsed, go back to the mid-eighties because that is where the conservative think tanks' strategy kicked into high gear. A well-educated populace is a lot harder to control than one fed by an echo chamber, trained to react how they're told, vote how they're told, protest how they're told. Political broadcasts were deregulated, media consolidation was deregulated, under Reagan way too fucking much of America was deregulated but THOSE are where the major damage started, because it led to what we have now.
Right now you can be a Republican who has a real interest, someone who reads, someone who wants to know more about our country and our world and our politics and _still_ be a dangerous shithead if you are caught up in the echo chamber. The whole goddamn AM radio dial, their own TV networks, their own newspapers, their own talking heads on 'mainstream' programs, and that's before you figure in email chains morphing into message boards, bloggers, Twitter and Facebook walls. It is so easy to believe utter bullshit when you hear it from multiple sources, read it in multiple places, see people you know repeating it on social media, watch it on the TV and are told that the OTHER side are the liars. Trump's FAKE NEWS! rants are just a gloriously inelegant way of presenting that, but that has been the driving force behind modern conservatism since the Reagan years. Truths that are inconvenient are meaningless if they're drowned out until your patsies _don't believe them_ or their sources any more.
And, no, this is not a completely uniquely conservative thing. There are left-wing dingbats too. But they're like a whisper being drowned out by a tsunami in terms of media penetration and effectiveness.
This is why, back when the RNC was going on and you were fighting the good fight on the floor, some of us were yelling that #NeverTrump was one thing but that it was an inherently doomed enterprise because what was the alternative? Ted Cruz with a puncher's chance at the White House? In a lot of ways that was SCARIER because Cruz is just as sociopathic but has some actual grasp of how to _use_ that power.
We're no longer liberal versus conservative, left versus right. We are thinkers, planners and patriots versus the corrupt leading the deluded, the misinformed, the mistaught and the uncaring. We are Reason versus Apathy, all the more difficult a battle to win because to join our side one must make a conscious decision to do so and consciousness isn't all that prized around here these days.
Batter up.
posted by delfin at 5:42 PM on April 28, 2017 [107 favorites]
When has Trump taken responsibility for anything except in retrospect for "wins" that he had nothing to do with?
posted by Atom Eyes at 5:43 PM on April 28, 2017
posted by Atom Eyes at 5:43 PM on April 28, 2017
I'm still boggling over Trump's North Korea tweet. It's so weird that he frames it in terms of "disrespect[ing]" China and its President, but not us or anybody else.The terrifying but completely plausible possibility is that this is the Master Negotiator trying to be clever and thinking that surely if he frames it like that the Chinese will have to Do Something About North Korea or else look weak.
I mean, are you gonna let that punk disrespect you, President Xi?
posted by Nerd of the North at 5:43 PM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Guardian: Donald Trump tells NRA: 'I am going to come through for you'
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:45 PM on April 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
Guns are allowed in most public places in Georgia, including the Georgia World Congress Center in Atlanta where the NRA meeting is taking place, but attendees were not allowed to bring firearms to the leadership forum where Trump spoke."Come on, Donnie, what are you afraid of? Shouldn't you feel safe in front of a crowd of adoring people who are carrying? Give the Secret Service the day off, man; they've worked hard.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:45 PM on April 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
And that's just not the case. The people who are thoughtful and involved in the party are not the same people going to Trump rallies with Spartan helmets. We have our own mob, and they are larger and angrier and more prone to violence than we thought, and they are nothing like us so we don't know how to disarm them.
You're right.
Those "thoughtful and involved" people were cheering the mob on and inciting them for 40 years so they could get their tax cuts.
Don't act like the Republican party has clean hands here.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:46 PM on April 28, 2017 [24 favorites]
You're right.
Those "thoughtful and involved" people were cheering the mob on and inciting them for 40 years so they could get their tax cuts.
Don't act like the Republican party has clean hands here.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:46 PM on April 28, 2017 [24 favorites]
I know that it's all nonsense but can someone clue me in as to what the long 8-year-ordeal of the NRA actually boils down to when translated back from moon logic?
I mean, they weren't being actually fellated by the government the way they are now but neither do I remember any notable gun ownership setbacks during the Obama years. Is there any kernel of an actual grievance there or is it about pure crazification like not arming elementary school teachers after Sandy Hook?
posted by Nerd of the North at 5:50 PM on April 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
I mean, they weren't being actually fellated by the government the way they are now but neither do I remember any notable gun ownership setbacks during the Obama years. Is there any kernel of an actual grievance there or is it about pure crazification like not arming elementary school teachers after Sandy Hook?
posted by Nerd of the North at 5:50 PM on April 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
do you think it could be extended right around the coastline and we could get a roof put on top too? You can leave the keys outside.
Look mate, as an American that remark about the keys really pisses me off. You think we don't have the technical know-how to make a digital keypad? JFC.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:52 PM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Look mate, as an American that remark about the keys really pisses me off. You think we don't have the technical know-how to make a digital keypad? JFC.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:52 PM on April 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
I know that it's all nonsense but can someone clue me in as to what the long 8-year-ordeal of the NRA actually boils down to when translated back from moon logic?
I think it was the horror of record breaking gun sale profits. They're still terrified of how much money they made selling Obama as a gun-grabbing boogie man.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:53 PM on April 28, 2017 [18 favorites]
I think it was the horror of record breaking gun sale profits. They're still terrified of how much money they made selling Obama as a gun-grabbing boogie man.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:53 PM on April 28, 2017 [18 favorites]
He knows that he didn't win legitimately, and that's why he can’t shut up about it.
Alternately -or, perhaps, additionally, there are a few other points to remember:
Alternately -or, perhaps, additionally, there are a few other points to remember:
- It’s the only win he can really put on the board. There have been no other clear cut “victories”. What else is there to talk about?
- His life has been built around expressions of dominance. That victory was an expression of dominance, and there haven’t been any others.
- He doesn’t introspect, so he will never describe a loss.
- He has always called everything he’s done a victory, and his bankruptcies have been “blips”.
- It’s a win that feels good to him. It is, I think, important to remember the extent to which everyone imagined he would be crushed. We can talk about popular vote losses, but the country seemed to be expecting that we’d be handing the country to the Democrats for another few terms. That feels really big. (We could, with introspection, understand why such a victory was plausible than expected, but that kind of introspection is painful enough that plenty of people -myself included- will cling to that popular vote loss like a proof that everything was fine, fine fine.
I can only imagine the NRA is happiest when the Dems are in charge, as sales thrive when their customers are scared of the nonexistent threat of gun control legislation.
posted by Atom Eyes at 6:05 PM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Atom Eyes at 6:05 PM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
We saw the Democrats' uneducated members and thought they were the only ones who had a mob - that the people who weren't going to college were still reading about things at home from their parents.
Can you clarify what you mean by mob here?
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 6:14 PM on April 28, 2017 [16 favorites]
Can you clarify what you mean by mob here?
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 6:14 PM on April 28, 2017 [16 favorites]
UK was given details of alleged contacts between Trump campaign and Moscow
-- The UK government was given details last December of allegedly extensive contacts between the Trump campaign and Moscow, according to court papers.
-- It was not previously known that the UK intelligence services had also received the dossier but Steele confirmed in a court filing earlier this month that he handed a memorandum compiled in December to a “senior UK government national security official acting in his official capacity, on a confidential basis in hard copy form”.
-- The December memo alleged that four Trump representatives travelled to Prague in August or September in 2016 for “secret discussions with Kremlin representatives and associated operators/hackers”, about how to pay hackers secretly for penetrating Democratic party computer systems and “contingency plans for covering up operations”.
-- Between March and September, the December memo alleges, the hackers used botnets and porn traffic to transmit viruses, plant bugs and steal data online from Democratic party leadership. Two of the hackers had been “recruited under duress by the FSB” the memo said. The hackers were paid by the Trump organisation, but were under the control of Vladimir Putin’s presidential administration.
-- Since the memo became public in January, Steele had not spoken about his role in compiling it but he and his company, Orbis Business Intelligence Limited, have filed a defence in the high court of justice in London, in a defamation case brought by Aleksej Gubarev, a Russian venture capitalist and owner of a global computer technology company, XBT, and a Dallas-based subsidiary Webzilla.
Gubarev, who was named along with his company in the December memo as being involved in hacking operation, has denied any such involvement and is also suing Buzzfeed...
The fact that there is another updated memo is new. The part I bolded is new as far as I can tell. I knew about the Cohen Prague allegation but now 3 others also travelled to Prague at some point? And that the trump organization paid hackers is new also? Anyone here have a better memory than me?
posted by futz at 6:20 PM on April 28, 2017 [37 favorites]
-- The UK government was given details last December of allegedly extensive contacts between the Trump campaign and Moscow, according to court papers.
-- It was not previously known that the UK intelligence services had also received the dossier but Steele confirmed in a court filing earlier this month that he handed a memorandum compiled in December to a “senior UK government national security official acting in his official capacity, on a confidential basis in hard copy form”.
-- The December memo alleged that four Trump representatives travelled to Prague in August or September in 2016 for “secret discussions with Kremlin representatives and associated operators/hackers”, about how to pay hackers secretly for penetrating Democratic party computer systems and “contingency plans for covering up operations”.
-- Between March and September, the December memo alleges, the hackers used botnets and porn traffic to transmit viruses, plant bugs and steal data online from Democratic party leadership. Two of the hackers had been “recruited under duress by the FSB” the memo said. The hackers were paid by the Trump organisation, but were under the control of Vladimir Putin’s presidential administration.
-- Since the memo became public in January, Steele had not spoken about his role in compiling it but he and his company, Orbis Business Intelligence Limited, have filed a defence in the high court of justice in London, in a defamation case brought by Aleksej Gubarev, a Russian venture capitalist and owner of a global computer technology company, XBT, and a Dallas-based subsidiary Webzilla.
Gubarev, who was named along with his company in the December memo as being involved in hacking operation, has denied any such involvement and is also suing Buzzfeed...
The fact that there is another updated memo is new. The part I bolded is new as far as I can tell. I knew about the Cohen Prague allegation but now 3 others also travelled to Prague at some point? And that the trump organization paid hackers is new also? Anyone here have a better memory than me?
posted by futz at 6:20 PM on April 28, 2017 [37 favorites]
kirkaracha: Weird. They have "Bull Run" for the battle in 1861 and "Manassas" for the 1862 sequel. "Manassas" is the Confederate name for the battle. Since it's a US Army flag it should say "1st Bull Run" and "2nd Bull Run."
Perhaps both, then. The National Park Service titles their respective park websites "The Battle of First Manassas (First Bull Run)" and "Battle of Second Manassas (Second Bull Run)".
posted by cenoxo at 6:28 PM on April 28, 2017
Perhaps both, then. The National Park Service titles their respective park websites "The Battle of First Manassas (First Bull Run)" and "Battle of Second Manassas (Second Bull Run)".
posted by cenoxo at 6:28 PM on April 28, 2017
Mod note: Several deleted. Guys, this is a dumb derail. Drop it. Or FIAMO. Either way.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 6:28 PM on April 28, 2017
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 6:28 PM on April 28, 2017
I think, and this is uncomfortable to admit but I think must be said, that a lot of Republicans, including myself, thought we were talking to adults, that there were a lot more adults in the world than I now currently believe. That we assumed most people who shared our political persuasion were fundamentally like ourselves- people who learned civics at home and took it really seriously, and thought really hard about things. We saw the Democrats' uneducated members and thought they were the only ones who had a mob - that the people who weren't going to college were still reading about things at home from their parents.
So... the huge number of white supremacists that have been the core of the Republican party since at least the 60s, these people are the "adults" that you're referring to? Where do all the millions of incidents of conservatives fighting to deny the rights of people of color and women and non-Christians and LGBT people fall in this group of "people who learned civics at home and took it really seriously"? The racialized assaults? The murders? The long campaigns of intimidation and economic violence? The George Zimmermans and Dylann Roofs and Adam Purintons? Again, these people are not outliers. The entirety of Stormfront is conservative. The police who murdered Eric Garner and Michael Brown and Tamir Rice and Eric Harris and William Chapman, are these your civic-minded adults? How about luminaries like Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly, serial abusers themselves as well as promulgators of the rhetoric that helped make many of those murders possible (and possible to get away with)? Or how about the similar epidemic of violence against LGBTQ people? Or, more recently, against Muslims? How about the anti-Semitism? Don't you think it's strange that violence motivated by race, religion, gender, or sexual identity is committed OVERWHELMINGLY by conservatives (and always defended by conservatives)? How are these the actions of "adults", while fighting against this kind of evil is the action of a "mob"?
There is no way to claim that you ever believed that the Republican party was mostly made of good people who just have different opinions than liberals unless you also believed that people of color and LGBTQ individuals have been making up DECADES of abuses, assaults, and more heinous crimes. Again, we're talking about CAMPAIGNS, not isolated incidents. You would have to be blind not only to the kinds of experiences that we talk about literally every day on this site, but also to the responses to those issues from conservative legislators and conservative voters.
posted by IAmUnaware at 6:39 PM on April 28, 2017 [47 favorites]
So... the huge number of white supremacists that have been the core of the Republican party since at least the 60s, these people are the "adults" that you're referring to? Where do all the millions of incidents of conservatives fighting to deny the rights of people of color and women and non-Christians and LGBT people fall in this group of "people who learned civics at home and took it really seriously"? The racialized assaults? The murders? The long campaigns of intimidation and economic violence? The George Zimmermans and Dylann Roofs and Adam Purintons? Again, these people are not outliers. The entirety of Stormfront is conservative. The police who murdered Eric Garner and Michael Brown and Tamir Rice and Eric Harris and William Chapman, are these your civic-minded adults? How about luminaries like Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly, serial abusers themselves as well as promulgators of the rhetoric that helped make many of those murders possible (and possible to get away with)? Or how about the similar epidemic of violence against LGBTQ people? Or, more recently, against Muslims? How about the anti-Semitism? Don't you think it's strange that violence motivated by race, religion, gender, or sexual identity is committed OVERWHELMINGLY by conservatives (and always defended by conservatives)? How are these the actions of "adults", while fighting against this kind of evil is the action of a "mob"?
There is no way to claim that you ever believed that the Republican party was mostly made of good people who just have different opinions than liberals unless you also believed that people of color and LGBTQ individuals have been making up DECADES of abuses, assaults, and more heinous crimes. Again, we're talking about CAMPAIGNS, not isolated incidents. You would have to be blind not only to the kinds of experiences that we talk about literally every day on this site, but also to the responses to those issues from conservative legislators and conservative voters.
posted by IAmUnaware at 6:39 PM on April 28, 2017 [47 favorites]
There has been a great deal of discourse here on Metafilter regarding whether or not to spend time trying to persuade Trumpistas/Republicans etc. There IS a way to persuade them...by making their lives difficult.
You know how some people/businesses refuse to make a cake because the customer is gay? Or how some officiants refuse to perform a marriage ceremony because the marrying couple is gay? You know the stories.
Lets start refusing service to republicans and people who support republicans. (Or at least calling them out and making and issue of it.)
I am not usually an "eye for an eye" kind of guy, but this is a dirty fight. It's time to call people out. On the street. In person. Fuck with them. Make them uncomfortable. Make them feel shame. It's dangerous for me, but I'm doing this now, every day.
I posted last Friday about starting a fuss at work. I did NOT get into any trouble. Today I gave a little spiel to the same people about the history of North Korea...they were all like, "Oh, yea, ok, Yea!" They totally got it, but they had to get it from somebody that they trusted.
Hang in there and keep up the good work!
posted by snsranch at 6:40 PM on April 28, 2017 [27 favorites]
You know how some people/businesses refuse to make a cake because the customer is gay? Or how some officiants refuse to perform a marriage ceremony because the marrying couple is gay? You know the stories.
Lets start refusing service to republicans and people who support republicans. (Or at least calling them out and making and issue of it.)
I am not usually an "eye for an eye" kind of guy, but this is a dirty fight. It's time to call people out. On the street. In person. Fuck with them. Make them uncomfortable. Make them feel shame. It's dangerous for me, but I'm doing this now, every day.
I posted last Friday about starting a fuss at work. I did NOT get into any trouble. Today I gave a little spiel to the same people about the history of North Korea...they were all like, "Oh, yea, ok, Yea!" They totally got it, but they had to get it from somebody that they trusted.
Hang in there and keep up the good work!
posted by snsranch at 6:40 PM on April 28, 2017 [27 favorites]
The terrifying but completely plausible possibility is that this is the Master Negotiator trying to be clever and thinking that surely if he frames it like that the Chinese will have to Do Something About North Korea or else look weak.
See the thing is, Xi and the rest of the Chinese leadership know when to not let pride get in the way of the long game. Flatter the pusball. Give him his shitty little trademark on his name. It's not like the counterfeiters are going to respect it.
Xi is just looking for the moment to plunge the dagger that is a fully convertible yuan into the heart of the decadent United States and leave us holding the bag while the rest of the world rapidly conforms to the Pax Sinica. He knows that every dumb motherfucking thing that shitbag says brings the world ever closer to abandoning the post-Nixon Shock world order.
posted by Talez at 6:43 PM on April 28, 2017 [16 favorites]
See the thing is, Xi and the rest of the Chinese leadership know when to not let pride get in the way of the long game. Flatter the pusball. Give him his shitty little trademark on his name. It's not like the counterfeiters are going to respect it.
Xi is just looking for the moment to plunge the dagger that is a fully convertible yuan into the heart of the decadent United States and leave us holding the bag while the rest of the world rapidly conforms to the Pax Sinica. He knows that every dumb motherfucking thing that shitbag says brings the world ever closer to abandoning the post-Nixon Shock world order.
posted by Talez at 6:43 PM on April 28, 2017 [16 favorites]
Amy Davidson/New Yorker—The Global Effort to Flatter Ivanka:
The international project of flattering Ivanka Trump—which some of the world’s most notable women, from Angela Merkel, the Chancellor of Germany, to Queen Máxima, of the Netherlands, engaged in at a panel discussion during the W20 conference, in Berlin, this week—does not always run smoothly. There was, first, the achingly obvious oddity of deciding that Trump, whose experience on the public stage largely consists of marketing her clothing and jewelry lines, and her efforts to get her father, Donald Trump, elected, was qualified to sit between Christine Lagarde, the head of the International Monetary Fund, and Chrystia Freeland, the Foreign Minister of Canada. That was quickly followed by the dispiriting thought that Trump might actually have as much power over people’s lives as the other women, through the influence that she supposedly wields over her father. Why else would the head of the World Bank, Jim Yong Kim, have co-authored an op-ed in the Financial Times with her, on the importance of promoting female entrepreneurship? Their insights include this: “mentorship opportunities and access to networks bring learning opportunities and connections to capital and markets.” There are probably many people in the world who would like to mentor Trump and have access to her networks. It might even explain why Merkel invited her to Berlin, a move that the German press praised as “klug,” or clever, in terms of opening a route to President Trump—and why Merkel suggested, from the stage, that the World Bank look at ways to get funding to women entrepreneurs in the developing world, and then, at an event afterward, complimented Ivanka for supporting the idea. But that is also where it all got a little bit confusing, as things tend to with the Trumps.posted by zachlipton at 6:45 PM on April 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
The part I bolded is new as far as I can tell. I knew about the Cohen Prague allegation but now 3 others also travelled to Prague at some point? And that the trump organization paid hackers is new also? Anyone here have a better memory than me?
No, that stuff's pretty fuckin' new. If that checks out, just, holy crap people
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:55 PM on April 28, 2017 [16 favorites]
No, that stuff's pretty fuckin' new. If that checks out, just, holy crap people
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:55 PM on April 28, 2017 [16 favorites]
I called VOICE to report all the illegal Americans currently occupying the Kingdom of Hawai‘i.
posted by deadbilly at 6:55 PM on April 28, 2017 [39 favorites]
posted by deadbilly at 6:55 PM on April 28, 2017 [39 favorites]
EPA website removes climate science site from public view after two decades:One of the websites that appeared to be gone had been cited to challenge statements made by the EPA’s new administrator, Scott Pruitt. Another provided detailed information on the previous administration’s Clean Power Plan, including fact sheets about greenhouse gas emissions on the state and local levels and how different demographic groups were affected by such emissions.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:00 PM on April 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:00 PM on April 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
His life has been built around expressions of dominance. That victory was an expression of dominance, and there haven’t been any others.
Except it wasn't an expression of dominance. A dominant win would've actually meant winning the popular vote, and winning the electoral college by a bigger margin than 46th in 58 elections (56.9%).
Obama won 51.1% of the popular vote and 61.7% of the electoral vote in 2012, and did even better in 2008. I'm sure it kills Trump that he didn't even come close to Obama's second-best win.
I bet what really kills him, though, is that he lost the popular vote to Hillary Clinton. And by three million votes. All he cares about is being popular, and he lost the popularity contest.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:32 PM on April 28, 2017 [12 favorites]
Trump: 'I couldn't care less about golf'
President Trump on Friday defended his frequent weekend trips to his luxury properties, saying he does not care about golfing as much as people might think he does.
"I have a lot of property. So if I go to my clubs like in New Jersey, they'll say, 'Oh he is going to play golf.' I am not going to play golf. I couldn't care less about golf," Trump said in an interview on Fox News.
"But I have a place there that costs almost nothing because its hundreds of acres and security and they don't have to close up streets," he added.
...Trump noted that he prefers to visit his other properties because they are not as expensive to secure but added that he does not want to be perceived as "lazy."
"It would be much better if people would understand that I could go other places that I have. But then they hit me for relaxing. And I don't want to be known as a person that relaxes because I am working hard and I am working hard for the people."
He is a couldn't care less'er. He isn't lazy even though he is way behind on nominees and appointments and chooses to golf and hobnob with other nobbers on the regular. Not lazy says the Liar in Chief. Nope. At least he doesn't want to be perceived as so.
posted by futz at 8:01 PM on April 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
President Trump on Friday defended his frequent weekend trips to his luxury properties, saying he does not care about golfing as much as people might think he does.
"I have a lot of property. So if I go to my clubs like in New Jersey, they'll say, 'Oh he is going to play golf.' I am not going to play golf. I couldn't care less about golf," Trump said in an interview on Fox News.
"But I have a place there that costs almost nothing because its hundreds of acres and security and they don't have to close up streets," he added.
...Trump noted that he prefers to visit his other properties because they are not as expensive to secure but added that he does not want to be perceived as "lazy."
"It would be much better if people would understand that I could go other places that I have. But then they hit me for relaxing. And I don't want to be known as a person that relaxes because I am working hard and I am working hard for the people."
He is a couldn't care less'er. He isn't lazy even though he is way behind on nominees and appointments and chooses to golf and hobnob with other nobbers on the regular. Not lazy says the Liar in Chief. Nope. At least he doesn't want to be perceived as so.
posted by futz at 8:01 PM on April 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
So much so that, instead of being seen doing these things he says he's doing, he locks the press in rooms with blacked-out windows, so they can't accidentally film anything that might give the impression he's slacking!
Which is a good strategy, because of... reasons.
posted by Archelaus at 8:09 PM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Which is a good strategy, because of... reasons.
posted by Archelaus at 8:09 PM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
There has been a great deal of discourse here on Metafilter regarding whether or not to spend time trying to persuade Trumpistas/Republicans etc. There IS a way to persuade them...by making their lives difficult.
I had a ragey post in the MRA Redpill NH legislator thread and thought better of it, but it was essentially this. The willfully ignorant are that way willfully, for whatever reason, and the fascism, conservativism, dominance, abuse, discrimination, and obliviousness to facts are all aspects of the same fundamental refusal to consider the basic needs of others, and often part and parcel of an organized effort to actively harm the basic needs of others. They must not and cannot be afforded the assumption that they will not harm you. They must be purged from your life, sometimes with fire and brimstone. I made my peace with the idea, and have done my purging.
We talk about extenuating circumstances, and I'm in a position where I can afford to be very absolutist about it, but it still comes back to this - it's about power, and they're trying to take it.
There was a Brexit voter who took over a chat group I modded, one for entertainment-ish networking. He started inviting marketers, Trump supporters, spammers, just...all manner of...ick...and there were Pepe stickers appearing. People in the group were complaining. This is in China, there were anti-Chinese sentiments starting to appear in chat. Older members were starting to get harassed. I tried gentle prodding, no dice, so I talked him into giving the group back on a different pretense, then kicked him out and said he could come back when he publicly apologized for laughing at Pepe and pro-Trump statements and shared a few anti-PUA articles. I also reported his behavior to his boss, who I know through different channels. He refused to apologize to me, but was transferred off public-facing work at his company.
In the past I wouldn't have done that, because who made me judge and jury? Now, fuck 'em. I wouldn't keep company with Don Corleone, so there's no reason to put up with this shit either.
posted by saysthis at 8:21 PM on April 28, 2017 [53 favorites]
I had a ragey post in the MRA Redpill NH legislator thread and thought better of it, but it was essentially this. The willfully ignorant are that way willfully, for whatever reason, and the fascism, conservativism, dominance, abuse, discrimination, and obliviousness to facts are all aspects of the same fundamental refusal to consider the basic needs of others, and often part and parcel of an organized effort to actively harm the basic needs of others. They must not and cannot be afforded the assumption that they will not harm you. They must be purged from your life, sometimes with fire and brimstone. I made my peace with the idea, and have done my purging.
We talk about extenuating circumstances, and I'm in a position where I can afford to be very absolutist about it, but it still comes back to this - it's about power, and they're trying to take it.
There was a Brexit voter who took over a chat group I modded, one for entertainment-ish networking. He started inviting marketers, Trump supporters, spammers, just...all manner of...ick...and there were Pepe stickers appearing. People in the group were complaining. This is in China, there were anti-Chinese sentiments starting to appear in chat. Older members were starting to get harassed. I tried gentle prodding, no dice, so I talked him into giving the group back on a different pretense, then kicked him out and said he could come back when he publicly apologized for laughing at Pepe and pro-Trump statements and shared a few anti-PUA articles. I also reported his behavior to his boss, who I know through different channels. He refused to apologize to me, but was transferred off public-facing work at his company.
In the past I wouldn't have done that, because who made me judge and jury? Now, fuck 'em. I wouldn't keep company with Don Corleone, so there's no reason to put up with this shit either.
posted by saysthis at 8:21 PM on April 28, 2017 [53 favorites]
Word from DC is that the House GOP is going to work all weekend trying to pressure moderate republicans to vote for zombie health care plan on Monday. Hard to believe they still beating this toxic dead horse and I can't imagine they can promise anything thing good enough to the moderates who would be putting their seats at risk for such a bad bill. I'm not going to be shocked if they pull this off. And I wouldn't count on the Senate to save the ACA. It sounds like Mitch has something up his sleeve.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:40 PM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:40 PM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
this is from a dozen comments back, but Queen Máxima is an awesome name
posted by ryanrs at 8:55 PM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by ryanrs at 8:55 PM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
777 former EPA officials signed a letter urging Congress to reject the Trump administration's 'climate denial policies'
In the letter, President Trump's climate policy was contrasted with those of other Republican presidents in the past, with examples including Republican President Richard Nixon’s Council on Environmental Quality and Republican President George H.W. Bush's agreeing to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change.
"The President’s reckless disregard for the science and consequences of climate change stands in stark contrast to his predecessors’ respect for science and common sense," the former officials wrote in the letter.
posted by futz at 8:55 PM on April 28, 2017 [15 favorites]
In the letter, President Trump's climate policy was contrasted with those of other Republican presidents in the past, with examples including Republican President Richard Nixon’s Council on Environmental Quality and Republican President George H.W. Bush's agreeing to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change.
"The President’s reckless disregard for the science and consequences of climate change stands in stark contrast to his predecessors’ respect for science and common sense," the former officials wrote in the letter.
posted by futz at 8:55 PM on April 28, 2017 [15 favorites]
I think this really sums up the situation better than most everything I've read lately. Max Boot/FP—America Is Getting Used to Trump’s Insanity:
The second trend is harder to discern, and it can’t be reduced to numbers, but I am convinced it is real. I refer to the country’s growing acceptance of the unacceptable.posted by zachlipton at 8:56 PM on April 28, 2017 [37 favorites]
People adjust to any situation, no matter how bizarre or abnormal. An alien landing on Earth would be “yuge” news, to use Trump’s favorite word, but alien landings every day would quickly become ho-hum. So it is with the outlandish occupant of the Oval Office — he is increasingly being treated as a normal president even though he is anything but.
What was once unthinkable is now unremarkable. There is now a tendency, even among many of my Never Trump friends, to shrug their shoulders at his latest shenanigans. It is simply too difficult to stay outraged nonstop for 100 days, much less for 1,461 days — the length of one presidential term. Trump continues to say and do things that are, by any reasonable standard, egregious, but we notice his offenses less and less because they are such a frequent occurrence.
...
Trump doesn’t have much support, it is true, but the failure among his many critics to mobilize and maintain a higher level of indignation is letting him get away with his offenses against good taste, sound policy, ethical norms, and possibly even the law itself.
this is from a dozen comments back, but Queen Máxima is an awesome name
If a reporter makes a mistake in a story about her, they can just tell their editor mea Máxima culpa.
posted by zachlipton at 9:00 PM on April 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
If a reporter makes a mistake in a story about her, they can just tell their editor mea Máxima culpa.
posted by zachlipton at 9:00 PM on April 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
Trump doesn’t have much support, it is true, but the failure among his many critics to mobilize and maintain a higher level of indignation is letting him get away with his offenses against good taste, sound policy, ethical norms, and possibly even the law itself.
Yea, that's not the problem. There's no way for "his critics" to do anything about it short of armed rebellion. Republicans are enabling and normalizing him to achieve their own policies. It has literally nothing to do with critics, because none of the critics have the power to do anything at all to stop it.
Trump has no Republican critics. Only co-conspirators.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:01 PM on April 28, 2017 [47 favorites]
Yea, that's not the problem. There's no way for "his critics" to do anything about it short of armed rebellion. Republicans are enabling and normalizing him to achieve their own policies. It has literally nothing to do with critics, because none of the critics have the power to do anything at all to stop it.
Trump has no Republican critics. Only co-conspirators.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:01 PM on April 28, 2017 [47 favorites]
Lauren Duca (Teen Vogue): Trump's First 100 Days Have Completely Undermined America's Political Standards
posted by mrjohnmuller at 9:09 PM on April 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by mrjohnmuller at 9:09 PM on April 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
Trump has no Republican critics. Only co-conspirators.
For the record, the author of that article is about as strong in that department as they come, whether you consider that enough. He was an establishment Republican to the extent they let him edit the Wall Street Journal op-ed page for some time, and he advised McCain, Romney, and Rubio. Last year, in response to Trump's nomination, he wrote The Republican Party is dead (in which he praises Paul Ryan as the leader of true Conservatism, don't get too excited here).
What Boot is trying to do in this article is wake Republicans who still think he's a smart guy up a little bit. I don't have any faith he'll succeed on any real level, but I'll take what I can get.
I also like David Remnick's 100 day take. The important thread in these articles is that they don't normalize this by doing the standard "what has he accomplished?" game you would play with any other President; they recognize this situation can't be analyzed in those terms and cut right to the lies, the destructive impulses, the sheer madness of it. Remnick links what is happening here to broader movements to dismantle liberal democracy around the world, the embrace of resentment, of vilifying "the Other." In other words, the question most 100 day articles are asking is "what has he done?" and then evaluating those things in quantity and quality. The real question is "what is he destroying?" and what are we losing as a result. As Remnick writes:
For the record, the author of that article is about as strong in that department as they come, whether you consider that enough. He was an establishment Republican to the extent they let him edit the Wall Street Journal op-ed page for some time, and he advised McCain, Romney, and Rubio. Last year, in response to Trump's nomination, he wrote The Republican Party is dead (in which he praises Paul Ryan as the leader of true Conservatism, don't get too excited here).
What Boot is trying to do in this article is wake Republicans who still think he's a smart guy up a little bit. I don't have any faith he'll succeed on any real level, but I'll take what I can get.
I also like David Remnick's 100 day take. The important thread in these articles is that they don't normalize this by doing the standard "what has he accomplished?" game you would play with any other President; they recognize this situation can't be analyzed in those terms and cut right to the lies, the destructive impulses, the sheer madness of it. Remnick links what is happening here to broader movements to dismantle liberal democracy around the world, the embrace of resentment, of vilifying "the Other." In other words, the question most 100 day articles are asking is "what has he done?" and then evaluating those things in quantity and quality. The real question is "what is he destroying?" and what are we losing as a result. As Remnick writes:
The clownish veneer of Trumpism conceals its true danger. Trump’s way of lying is not a joke; it is a strategy, a way of clouding our capacity to think, to live in a realm of truth. It is said that each epoch dreams the one to follow. The task now is not merely to recognize this Presidency for the emergency it is, and to resist its assault on the principles of reality and the values of liberal democracy, but to devise a future, to debate, to hear one another, to organize, to preserve and revive precious things.posted by zachlipton at 9:17 PM on April 28, 2017 [24 favorites]
I'm fully aware of who Max Boot is, and the statement stands.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:22 PM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:22 PM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
The USDA Won’t Say Why It Hid Animal Welfare Records From The Public
BuzzFeed News asked the USDA for records about its decision to remove a database on animal welfare from the web. The department responded on Friday, with 1,771 pages that are completely blacked out..
posted by Room 641-A at 9:55 PM on April 28, 2017 [30 favorites]
BuzzFeed News asked the USDA for records about its decision to remove a database on animal welfare from the web. The department responded on Friday, with 1,771 pages that are completely blacked out..
posted by Room 641-A at 9:55 PM on April 28, 2017 [30 favorites]
That's just...
...it's...
Huh.
What's the word for two levels beyond "Orwellian"?
I know the next level is Kafkaesque, but then what?
(I'm just getting ready for what comes next.)
posted by darkstar at 10:39 PM on April 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
...it's...
Huh.
What's the word for two levels beyond "Orwellian"?
I know the next level is Kafkaesque, but then what?
(I'm just getting ready for what comes next.)
posted by darkstar at 10:39 PM on April 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
Pharyngula: There’s just something off about this photo
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:44 PM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:44 PM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
What's the word for two levels beyond "Orwellian"?
American?
posted by dis_integration at 10:51 PM on April 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
American?
posted by dis_integration at 10:51 PM on April 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
Speaking of photos with something off in them.
Photo: Pres. Donald Trump pats a U.S. Marine on the back as first lady Melania Trump looks on in Washington. #APPhoto by Pablo Martinez Monsivais
posted by zachlipton at 10:53 PM on April 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
Photo: Pres. Donald Trump pats a U.S. Marine on the back as first lady Melania Trump looks on in Washington. #APPhoto by Pablo Martinez Monsivais
posted by zachlipton at 10:53 PM on April 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
Gruber's take on the Nichols piece:
If you say “I voted for Trump because I want to say ‘Fuck you’ to everyone — my life’s in the toilet and I’d like to see the world burn”, OK, I get it. I don’t like you, but you made the right choice in Trump and I can see why you’re happy so far. But if you’re pleased with Trump because you think he’s running an effective administration and is accomplishing the things he promised to accomplish, you’re as disconnected from reality as he is.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:00 PM on April 28, 2017 [22 favorites]
Trump’s way of lying is not a joke; it is a strategy
It is neither. It is an errand boy. Sent by the grocer. To collect - y'know even Brando's psycho was more together than the actual fucking President.
He is unfit. He colluded with Russia to hack the opposing party in exchange for acts contrary to the common good and his administration is completely illegal and void because of it.
Just because they stole a SCOTUS seat and run all branches of government and place party loyalty way, way above country, we won't see justice for this particular crime against literally all Americans.
Dude, that is some fucked up shit right there. And he has a BUTTON for COKE. I mean - wow.
posted by petebest at 11:12 PM on April 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
It is neither. It is an errand boy. Sent by the grocer. To collect - y'know even Brando's psycho was more together than the actual fucking President.
He is unfit. He colluded with Russia to hack the opposing party in exchange for acts contrary to the common good and his administration is completely illegal and void because of it.
Just because they stole a SCOTUS seat and run all branches of government and place party loyalty way, way above country, we won't see justice for this particular crime against literally all Americans.
Dude, that is some fucked up shit right there. And he has a BUTTON for COKE. I mean - wow.
posted by petebest at 11:12 PM on April 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
But if you’re pleased with Trump because you think he’s running an effective administration and is accomplishing the things he promised to accomplish, you’re as disconnected from reality as he is.
I'm not fully convinced by this. Certainly, if you're evaluating his accomplishments by the normal conventional standards of legislation passed, well-planned initiatives put forth, crises managed, lives improved, etc..., then this absolutely holds true. And plenty of his voters really are disconnected from reality and will insist he's winning no matter how hard he fails; they're the same people who insisted President Obama was a secret Muslim from Kenya.
But I do think there's clearly a segment of his voters, people whose lives are clearly not in the toilet in any objective sense, who are just fine overlooking whether he's accomplishing any concrete promises like building the wall or repealing Obamacare as long as he's fulfilling the core promises of his campaign: bullying people who are different and delivering liberal tears. Because when we talk about voters who take Trump seriously but not literally, we're stripping away all the literal promises, and the hate and the racism and the bullying are all that's left. Those are the people who I'm least happy about sharing a country with, because they look at what he's doing, and when it comes to what they really care about, they see him doing exactly what he promised to accomplish.
posted by zachlipton at 11:31 PM on April 28, 2017 [42 favorites]
I'm not fully convinced by this. Certainly, if you're evaluating his accomplishments by the normal conventional standards of legislation passed, well-planned initiatives put forth, crises managed, lives improved, etc..., then this absolutely holds true. And plenty of his voters really are disconnected from reality and will insist he's winning no matter how hard he fails; they're the same people who insisted President Obama was a secret Muslim from Kenya.
But I do think there's clearly a segment of his voters, people whose lives are clearly not in the toilet in any objective sense, who are just fine overlooking whether he's accomplishing any concrete promises like building the wall or repealing Obamacare as long as he's fulfilling the core promises of his campaign: bullying people who are different and delivering liberal tears. Because when we talk about voters who take Trump seriously but not literally, we're stripping away all the literal promises, and the hate and the racism and the bullying are all that's left. Those are the people who I'm least happy about sharing a country with, because they look at what he's doing, and when it comes to what they really care about, they see him doing exactly what he promised to accomplish.
posted by zachlipton at 11:31 PM on April 28, 2017 [42 favorites]
he's fulfilling the core promises of his campaign: bullying people who are different and delivering liberal tears.
I'm astounded how many otherwise intelligent Trump fans I know are motivated by pissing off liberals. They are literally willing to have objectively bad policies adopted just to upset liberals.
It's seems very sophomoric, and I mean high school sophomores, not college sophomores.
posted by msalt at 12:16 AM on April 29, 2017 [23 favorites]
I'm astounded how many otherwise intelligent Trump fans I know are motivated by pissing off liberals. They are literally willing to have objectively bad policies adopted just to upset liberals.
It's seems very sophomoric, and I mean high school sophomores, not college sophomores.
posted by msalt at 12:16 AM on April 29, 2017 [23 favorites]
I know the next level is Kafkaesque, but then what?
Nihilistic?
posted by Going To Maine at 12:19 AM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Nihilistic?
posted by Going To Maine at 12:19 AM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Or, perhaps, apathetic.
posted by Going To Maine at 12:19 AM on April 29, 2017
posted by Going To Maine at 12:19 AM on April 29, 2017
I mean, in Kafka, people care.
posted by Going To Maine at 12:20 AM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 12:20 AM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
So CNN's headline right now says:
"Trump's public enemy No.1"
Turns out it's about criminal gangs or something but I have to wonder if they intended the double meaning.
posted by mmoncur at 1:44 AM on April 29, 2017 [19 favorites]
"Trump's public enemy No.1"
Turns out it's about criminal gangs or something but I have to wonder if they intended the double meaning.
posted by mmoncur at 1:44 AM on April 29, 2017 [19 favorites]
Once there were conservatives in the Republican party who were responsible, fair, interested in knowledge and dedicated to fiscal responsibility. That was way before you young people were born. I guess most people agree that the Southern Strategy was when they sat themselves on the slide down to idiocy, but I've thought a lot about when science and conservative thinking parted ways as well, maybe signified by the Club of Rome publication "Limits to Growth". The more actual research results have confirmed that fossil fuels, pesticides, factory farming, etc are damaging to the world, to individuals and to society, the more cynical Republican dealers such the Koch brothers have embraced American ignorance, whether it be dumbing down of the school system, fake news channels, or religious hypocrisy and idiocy. At this point, the manipulating class are even beginning to believe their own lies: see Trump and the Mercers.
posted by mumimor at 2:46 AM on April 29, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by mumimor at 2:46 AM on April 29, 2017 [14 favorites]
...I have to wonder if they intended the double meaning.
Triple meaning, even, given that
public enemy ≅ hostis publicus ≅ enemy of the people.
It could be CNN's new motto like WaPo's is “Democracy Dies in Darkness.”
posted by XMLicious at 2:52 AM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm astounded how many otherwise intelligent Trump fans I know are motivated by pissing off liberals. They are literally willing to have objectively bad policies adopted just to upset liberals.
It's seems very sophomoric, and I mean high school sophomores, not college sophomores.
I can only conclude that this is tribalism taken to its most absurd extreme…that these people have allowed their manichean worldview to override or expunge all other considerations, for whatever reason (though I am sure that the Limbaughs and O'Reillys are a large part of that reason).
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 4:23 AM on April 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
It's seems very sophomoric, and I mean high school sophomores, not college sophomores.
I can only conclude that this is tribalism taken to its most absurd extreme…that these people have allowed their manichean worldview to override or expunge all other considerations, for whatever reason (though I am sure that the Limbaughs and O'Reillys are a large part of that reason).
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 4:23 AM on April 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
Because when we talk about voters who take Trump seriously but not literally, we're stripping away all the literal promises, and the hate and the racism and the bullying are all that's left. Those are the people who I'm least happy about sharing a country with, because they look at what he's doing, and when it comes to what they really care about, they see him doing exactly what he promised to accomplish.
The great service Trump has provided is revealing beyond a shadow of a doubt that the vast majority of Republicans are just awful awful people. Because there's really no way you can support him unless you're ignorant, idiotic, and/or horrible.
posted by chris24 at 5:49 AM on April 29, 2017 [51 favorites]
The great service Trump has provided is revealing beyond a shadow of a doubt that the vast majority of Republicans are just awful awful people. Because there's really no way you can support him unless you're ignorant, idiotic, and/or horrible.
posted by chris24 at 5:49 AM on April 29, 2017 [51 favorites]
It's nature vs nurture. I don't think most Trumpists are innately horrible, horrible people, but they've grown up in an environment which nurtures that side of things. Any reformist movement will have to have that near the top of the shopping list of things to sort out.
And what a list that is, to be sure.
posted by Devonian at 6:13 AM on April 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
And what a list that is, to be sure.
posted by Devonian at 6:13 AM on April 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
Man arrested in Transy machete attack wrote that he was bullied for being Republican
When will moderate Republicans denounce terrorism?
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:14 AM on April 29, 2017 [50 favorites]
When will moderate Republicans denounce terrorism?
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:14 AM on April 29, 2017 [50 favorites]
The military becomes a Russian pastime—an amusement park where the WWII storming of the Reichstag is re-enacted and a line of "Russian Army" clothing stores with pro-Assad t-shirts.
posted by XMLicious at 6:26 AM on April 29, 2017
posted by XMLicious at 6:26 AM on April 29, 2017
I keep getting stuck on how angry I'd be if I were Christine Lagarde over being seated next to a nobody whose only achievement was being born to a man who was born wealthy.
posted by winna at 6:30 AM on April 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by winna at 6:30 AM on April 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
But I do think there's clearly a segment of his voters, people whose lives are clearly not in the toilet in any objective sense, who are just fine overlooking whether he's accomplishing any concrete promises like building the wall or repealing Obamacare as long as he's fulfilling the core promises of his campaign: bullying people who are different and delivering liberal tears.
That's half of it. The other half have been weaned on the Reagan mantra -- big government can never help, big government is always the problem, get Washington out of the way and let the locals do things their way -- and "what is he destroying?" is a feature rather than a bug.
The details aren't important as long as The White^H^H^H^H^HRight People are back in charge.
posted by delfin at 6:39 AM on April 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
That's half of it. The other half have been weaned on the Reagan mantra -- big government can never help, big government is always the problem, get Washington out of the way and let the locals do things their way -- and "what is he destroying?" is a feature rather than a bug.
The details aren't important as long as The White^H^H^H^H^HRight People are back in charge.
posted by delfin at 6:39 AM on April 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
Conservatism has embraced and exploited toxic masculinity, and that's where much of its current working-class popularity comes from.
The progressive concepts of cooperation, compassion, inclusivity, and fairness are seen as weak and feminine. Conservatives prefer competition, rugged individualism, protecting their family with the biggest and baddest weapons, not having emotions, and driving big trucks. You know, man stuff.
They loved being called deplorable. The love supporting a pussy-grabber. And they'll keep voting for a tough-talking straight-shooter no matter how bad their lives get, because they're afraid to look weak. Their manhood is all they've got. And conservative/republican women have bought into the same narrative.
posted by rocket88 at 7:10 AM on April 29, 2017 [59 favorites]
The progressive concepts of cooperation, compassion, inclusivity, and fairness are seen as weak and feminine. Conservatives prefer competition, rugged individualism, protecting their family with the biggest and baddest weapons, not having emotions, and driving big trucks. You know, man stuff.
They loved being called deplorable. The love supporting a pussy-grabber. And they'll keep voting for a tough-talking straight-shooter no matter how bad their lives get, because they're afraid to look weak. Their manhood is all they've got. And conservative/republican women have bought into the same narrative.
posted by rocket88 at 7:10 AM on April 29, 2017 [59 favorites]
Who Had the Better First 100 Days?: William Henry Harrison, who died on Day 31, or Donald Trump?
Week 8posted by chris24 at 7:17 AM on April 29, 2017 [55 favorites]
Trump, March 10–16
The Congressional Budget Office analysis of Trump and Paul Ryan’s American Health Care Act revealed that it would trigger massive premium increases for many Americans and estimated that it would cause as many as 24 million people to lose their insurance. A federal judge struck down the second travel ban.
Harrison, April 22–28, 1841
Dead.
Who had the better week? Quite clearly Harrison.
I don't care if he has a button for Coke or not. Sounds nice. But also, that and the gold curtains are not the worst things he could do.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:56 AM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:56 AM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
FoxNews: Trump says trips to New York City cost the US too much
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:03 AM on April 29, 2017
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:03 AM on April 29, 2017
rocket88: And they'll keep voting for a tough-talking straight-shooter no matter how bad their lives get, because they're afraid to look weak.
Not only that, but in a way things getting bad plays into their fantasies of dystopia/ post-apocalypse where their masculinity is imagined to be suddenly more valuable than a scientist or computer programmer or fill in the blank latte sippin' city job. We've had decades of movies and tv shows where the rugged manly man with the crossbow does rugged manly things and gets the girl. That's why they hit the "inner cities are war zones" so hard-- it validates their AR-15 fantasies. And that's why Mad Max: Fury Road upset them so much - it was a post-apocalyptic story about a strong woman saving other women. The man in the story was incidental, and saved by protagonist only because it served her purposes.
posted by bluecore at 8:07 AM on April 29, 2017 [37 favorites]
Not only that, but in a way things getting bad plays into their fantasies of dystopia/ post-apocalypse where their masculinity is imagined to be suddenly more valuable than a scientist or computer programmer or fill in the blank latte sippin' city job. We've had decades of movies and tv shows where the rugged manly man with the crossbow does rugged manly things and gets the girl. That's why they hit the "inner cities are war zones" so hard-- it validates their AR-15 fantasies. And that's why Mad Max: Fury Road upset them so much - it was a post-apocalyptic story about a strong woman saving other women. The man in the story was incidental, and saved by protagonist only because it served her purposes.
posted by bluecore at 8:07 AM on April 29, 2017 [37 favorites]
But I do think there's clearly a segment of his voters, people whose lives are clearly not in the toilet in any objective sense, who are just fine overlooking whether he's accomplishing any concrete promises like building the wall or repealing Obamacare as long as he's fulfilling the core promises of his campaign: bullying people who are different and delivering liberal tears.
That's half of it. The other half have been weaned on the Reagan mantra -- big government can never help, big government is always the problem, get Washington out of the way and let the locals do things their way -- and "what is he destroying?" is a feature rather than a bug.
The great service Trump has provided is revealing beyond a shadow of a doubt that the vast majority of Republicans are just awful awful people. Because there's really no way you can support him unless you're ignorant, idiotic, and/or horrible.
Once there were conservatives in the Republican party who were responsible, fair, interested in knowledge and dedicated to fiscal responsibility. That was way before you young people were born.
I'm astounded how many otherwise intelligent Trump fans I know are motivated by pissing off liberals. They are literally willing to have objectively bad policies adopted just to upset liberals.
So...all permutations of "fuck you, citizen". Also, their ideology and foremost thinkers have been forms of "fuck you, shut up, take the abuse" for pretty much ever. They are the party of Khorne and Tzeentch. They nourish themselves on each other's pain.
Who cares why they exist, they do. Take them away from the levers of power, any levers of power, posthaste, before they kill you by taking your healthcare, or drone, or police abuse, or poisoning your water, or just general grinding poverty. They will machete you, but if you don't get them out of government, they will defund functioning mental healthcare and prison systems and still machete you. More likely shoot you, actually, because you threaten their liberty to shoot you, skulls for the throne etc.
posted by saysthis at 8:21 AM on April 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
That's half of it. The other half have been weaned on the Reagan mantra -- big government can never help, big government is always the problem, get Washington out of the way and let the locals do things their way -- and "what is he destroying?" is a feature rather than a bug.
The great service Trump has provided is revealing beyond a shadow of a doubt that the vast majority of Republicans are just awful awful people. Because there's really no way you can support him unless you're ignorant, idiotic, and/or horrible.
Once there were conservatives in the Republican party who were responsible, fair, interested in knowledge and dedicated to fiscal responsibility. That was way before you young people were born.
I'm astounded how many otherwise intelligent Trump fans I know are motivated by pissing off liberals. They are literally willing to have objectively bad policies adopted just to upset liberals.
So...all permutations of "fuck you, citizen". Also, their ideology and foremost thinkers have been forms of "fuck you, shut up, take the abuse" for pretty much ever. They are the party of Khorne and Tzeentch. They nourish themselves on each other's pain.
Who cares why they exist, they do. Take them away from the levers of power, any levers of power, posthaste, before they kill you by taking your healthcare, or drone, or police abuse, or poisoning your water, or just general grinding poverty. They will machete you, but if you don't get them out of government, they will defund functioning mental healthcare and prison systems and still machete you. More likely shoot you, actually, because you threaten their liberty to shoot you, skulls for the throne etc.
posted by saysthis at 8:21 AM on April 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
Small point, but it's Jamie Gorelick, who's a woman.
Oof, thanks for the correction.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:23 AM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oof, thanks for the correction.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:23 AM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
“I am not going to play golf. I couldn’t care less about golf.”
guys I want to give him the benefit of the doubt but I think our new president may have told a lie
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:24 AM on April 29, 2017 [37 favorites]
guys I want to give him the benefit of the doubt but I think our new president may have told a lie
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:24 AM on April 29, 2017 [37 favorites]
"I love New York, but going back is very expensive for the country"
yeah it's not like your wife and child are already there under perpetual secret service protection
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:26 AM on April 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
yeah it's not like your wife and child are already there under perpetual secret service protection
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:26 AM on April 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
Bear in mind that yesterday he referred to "both" of his sons so he may have already forgotten Barron exists.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:32 AM on April 29, 2017 [41 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:32 AM on April 29, 2017 [41 favorites]
well... that is... one explanation...
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:33 AM on April 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:33 AM on April 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
But I do think there's clearly a segment of his voters, people whose lives are clearly not in the toilet in any objective sense, who are just fine overlooking whether he's accomplishing any concrete promises like building the wall or repealing Obamacare as long as he's fulfilling the core promises of his campaign: bullying people who are different and delivering liberal tears.
I think there's this thing that happens, where people are looking at a lot of these people and saying, "Their lives are clearly not in the toilet as I define it, so they must not be motivated by despair." And I just don't think that's accurate or useful. I don't think trying to measure people's misery - a purely subjective experience - by objective standards is helpful. It's not a helpful metric when other people do it to us, and it's not a helpful metric when we do it to them.
The Trump Voter that thinks their lives are in the toilet and just wants to burn the world down is a real phenomenon, and saying, "Well, they're making more than some other people, so they can't be hurting" isn't going to get us anywhere. Whether or not we feel they deserve to feel hopeless, many of them still do. They are doing worse than their parents did, worse than they ever expected to do. And we need to find out a way of dealing with this, because people can still burn the world down when they feel they have nothing to lose, even if we think they "shouldn't" feel upset.
For example: a lot of people feel like failures if their household can't survive on only the male (breadwinner) income - if the woman is forced by economic necessity and not choice to work outside the home. That's not going away - I don't think jobs enabling one person to fully and comfortably support a family, much less a large one, are ever coming back. But that doesn't make the social expectation go away. Their feelings of despair and anger are still real, and they will act on those feelings. It is only going to get worse. I don't even have an answer for how to alleviate that pain! But we need to find one, or this country is going to tear itself apart.
posted by corb at 8:41 AM on April 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
I think there's this thing that happens, where people are looking at a lot of these people and saying, "Their lives are clearly not in the toilet as I define it, so they must not be motivated by despair." And I just don't think that's accurate or useful. I don't think trying to measure people's misery - a purely subjective experience - by objective standards is helpful. It's not a helpful metric when other people do it to us, and it's not a helpful metric when we do it to them.
The Trump Voter that thinks their lives are in the toilet and just wants to burn the world down is a real phenomenon, and saying, "Well, they're making more than some other people, so they can't be hurting" isn't going to get us anywhere. Whether or not we feel they deserve to feel hopeless, many of them still do. They are doing worse than their parents did, worse than they ever expected to do. And we need to find out a way of dealing with this, because people can still burn the world down when they feel they have nothing to lose, even if we think they "shouldn't" feel upset.
For example: a lot of people feel like failures if their household can't survive on only the male (breadwinner) income - if the woman is forced by economic necessity and not choice to work outside the home. That's not going away - I don't think jobs enabling one person to fully and comfortably support a family, much less a large one, are ever coming back. But that doesn't make the social expectation go away. Their feelings of despair and anger are still real, and they will act on those feelings. It is only going to get worse. I don't even have an answer for how to alleviate that pain! But we need to find one, or this country is going to tear itself apart.
posted by corb at 8:41 AM on April 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
yeah it's not like your wife and child are already there under perpetual secret service protection
Yes but that's a minor inconvenience for a couple of blocks with a fairly cheap (in terms of NYC's GDP) secret service detail. For Trump to come back into New York would involve closing parts of I-278, Grand Central Parkway, Queens Blvd, the Queensboro Bridge, and 61st, 60th, 59th, 58th, 57th, and 56th streets all the way to 5th Avenue.
You would basically break New York for the better part of a day and a half. That's the real expensive part.
posted by Talez at 8:48 AM on April 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yes but that's a minor inconvenience for a couple of blocks with a fairly cheap (in terms of NYC's GDP) secret service detail. For Trump to come back into New York would involve closing parts of I-278, Grand Central Parkway, Queens Blvd, the Queensboro Bridge, and 61st, 60th, 59th, 58th, 57th, and 56th streets all the way to 5th Avenue.
You would basically break New York for the better part of a day and a half. That's the real expensive part.
posted by Talez at 8:48 AM on April 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
Corb, how can we fix the problems you mentioned if they are voting into power the very people that are hurting them? And they have all the power right now too. How do WE solve that?
posted by JakeEXTREME at 8:53 AM on April 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by JakeEXTREME at 8:53 AM on April 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
But that doesn't make the social expectation go away. Their feelings of despair and anger are still real, and they will act on those feelings. It is only going to get worse. I don't even have an answer for how to alleviate that pain! But we need to find one, or this country is going to tear itself apart.
This. I have had deep red people who were once acquaintances threaten me with violence if they ever met me (they aren't acquaintances anymore obviously) because my wife is the primary breadwinner in our marriage and I either take care of the house or do casual work. This shit is real, it's pervasive, and it's toxic af.
posted by Talez at 8:54 AM on April 29, 2017 [43 favorites]
This. I have had deep red people who were once acquaintances threaten me with violence if they ever met me (they aren't acquaintances anymore obviously) because my wife is the primary breadwinner in our marriage and I either take care of the house or do casual work. This shit is real, it's pervasive, and it's toxic af.
posted by Talez at 8:54 AM on April 29, 2017 [43 favorites]
Colbert congratulates us all on our survival for 100 days.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:55 AM on April 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:55 AM on April 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
a lot of people feel like failures if their household can't survive on only the male (breadwinner) income
You are talking about a toxic patriarchal society. We don't need to coddle to that patriarchal toxicity. You are making the same argument as when people make excuses for a racist society. Those people have to change their patriarchal and racist ideas. We don't have to fix things so they don't suffer for their toxic ideas.
posted by JackFlash at 9:07 AM on April 29, 2017 [52 favorites]
You are talking about a toxic patriarchal society. We don't need to coddle to that patriarchal toxicity. You are making the same argument as when people make excuses for a racist society. Those people have to change their patriarchal and racist ideas. We don't have to fix things so they don't suffer for their toxic ideas.
posted by JackFlash at 9:07 AM on April 29, 2017 [52 favorites]
The Trump Voter that thinks their lives are in the toilet and just wants to burn the world down is a real phenomenon, and saying, "Well, they're making more than some other people, so they can't be hurting" isn't going to get us anywhere. Whether or not we feel they deserve to feel hopeless, many of them still do. They are doing worse than their parents did, worse than they ever expected to do. And we need to find out a way of dealing with this, because people can still burn the world down when they feel they have nothing to lose, even if we think they "shouldn't" feel upset.
The issue isn't really how they feel, it's that their reaction to feeling it - justified or not, real or not - is to blame, attack, hate and discriminate against LGBT, muslims, PoC, liberals, immigrants, etc. I wouldn't care about the reality/depth of their supposed suffering if their way of dealing with it wasn't horrific.
TL;DR: There are a metric shit ton of people in the world whose lives are without question desperate and shitty and they haven't resorted to racist bigoted fascism. So I will judge the people who have against that standard.
posted by chris24 at 9:11 AM on April 29, 2017 [56 favorites]
The issue isn't really how they feel, it's that their reaction to feeling it - justified or not, real or not - is to blame, attack, hate and discriminate against LGBT, muslims, PoC, liberals, immigrants, etc. I wouldn't care about the reality/depth of their supposed suffering if their way of dealing with it wasn't horrific.
TL;DR: There are a metric shit ton of people in the world whose lives are without question desperate and shitty and they haven't resorted to racist bigoted fascism. So I will judge the people who have against that standard.
posted by chris24 at 9:11 AM on April 29, 2017 [56 favorites]
The Trump Voter that thinks their lives are in the toilet and just wants to burn the world down is a real phenomenon, and saying, "Well, they're making more than some other people, so they can't be hurting" isn't going to get us anywhere. Whether or not we feel they deserve to feel hopeless, many of them still do. They are doing worse than their parents did, worse than they ever expected to do. And we need to find out a way of dealing with this, because people can still burn the world down when they feel they have nothing to lose, even if we think they "shouldn't" feel upset.
Other demographic groups have reduced family size, accepted working spouses, accepted second/third jobs, and accepted overall lowered lifestyles. And the average Trump voter has been perfectly fine with that and continues to expect every one else to use bootstraps to pull themselves up. So my sympathy is a bit lacking for those who refuse to practice what they preach.
posted by beaning at 9:31 AM on April 29, 2017 [18 favorites]
Other demographic groups have reduced family size, accepted working spouses, accepted second/third jobs, and accepted overall lowered lifestyles. And the average Trump voter has been perfectly fine with that and continues to expect every one else to use bootstraps to pull themselves up. So my sympathy is a bit lacking for those who refuse to practice what they preach.
posted by beaning at 9:31 AM on April 29, 2017 [18 favorites]
Mod note: "The pain of the Trump voter" is a topic that we've really gone over a whoooole lot in these threads. Minds aren't being changed, people are just saying the same things over and over every time, so let's call it good, on that?
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 9:36 AM on April 29, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 9:36 AM on April 29, 2017 [14 favorites]
Talez, are you saying considered the President receives greater protection than the First Lady or his children? That surprises me because I would have thought the threat regarding each would normally be approximately equal. Or maybe I've watched too much 24.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:06 AM on April 29, 2017
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:06 AM on April 29, 2017
Tweet: Charmaine Yoest's website has tips for spotting women lying about rape. She's the new DHHS public affairs secretary.
Link goes to the Wayback Machine: Half of Rape Allegations are False: Seven Clues
I was listening to an interesting podcast this morning about the massive Trump support by White Evangelical voters which was at odds with the vote by POC Evangelicals. At this point the White Evangelicals seem to have given up on voting for Moral Values and now are voting for power. DJT is immoral in just about every way and certainly anti-thetical to Christian values as espoused by Christ himself. The podcast surmised that as POC Evangelicals continue to rise in numbers and then surpass the White Evangelicals we will see a real differentiation in the two groups.
This is the moment that the so-called "Silent majority" which became activated by political leaders under Reagan and morphed into the "Moral Majority" will pervert Christianity into an unrecognizable form. I think we are almost there. The Christianity that is practiced by Independent Baptists, for example, jettisons most of the New Testament lessons for hard-line Old Testament doctrine. It is more important to castigate gay people than to feed the poor. It is more important to condemn people than to tend to the sick. It is more important to place women beneath men and control them then it is to visit people in prison. Prosperity Gospel, Dominionism, Authoritarianism, and Calvinism are being stirred into a toxic broth of Old Testament Patriarchy with a sprinkling of White Nationalism on top.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:07 AM on April 29, 2017 [66 favorites]
Link goes to the Wayback Machine: Half of Rape Allegations are False: Seven Clues
1) Revenge Is the girl out to get even with a man or boyfriend?Another appointment making a mockery of the title, Health and Human Services.
2) Alibi Does the girl need an explanation for having sex?
3) Emotional Instability Does the girl have problems or a desire for attention?
4) Timeliness How long did she wait to report the crime? Some women take a year to file a police report.
5) Physical Evidence There may not be any.
6) Self Inflicted Wounds But never sensitive areas: no lips, eyes, gentialia, nipples.
7) Incapacitated Drunk or drugged remembering few details.
I was listening to an interesting podcast this morning about the massive Trump support by White Evangelical voters which was at odds with the vote by POC Evangelicals. At this point the White Evangelicals seem to have given up on voting for Moral Values and now are voting for power. DJT is immoral in just about every way and certainly anti-thetical to Christian values as espoused by Christ himself. The podcast surmised that as POC Evangelicals continue to rise in numbers and then surpass the White Evangelicals we will see a real differentiation in the two groups.
This is the moment that the so-called "Silent majority" which became activated by political leaders under Reagan and morphed into the "Moral Majority" will pervert Christianity into an unrecognizable form. I think we are almost there. The Christianity that is practiced by Independent Baptists, for example, jettisons most of the New Testament lessons for hard-line Old Testament doctrine. It is more important to castigate gay people than to feed the poor. It is more important to condemn people than to tend to the sick. It is more important to place women beneath men and control them then it is to visit people in prison. Prosperity Gospel, Dominionism, Authoritarianism, and Calvinism are being stirred into a toxic broth of Old Testament Patriarchy with a sprinkling of White Nationalism on top.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:07 AM on April 29, 2017 [66 favorites]
From the Vox article linked way upthread about how de Trump profits from his position (urge everyone to read if you haven't already):
posted by TWinbrook8 at 10:23 AM on April 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
The Secret Service has, similarly, paid $64,000 for “elevator services” in Trump Tower. This is a fairly normal kind of expense for the agency, paying a building money to defray the inconvenience of taking elevators offline so they can be inspected for security purposes. But, again, there is nothing normal about the president personally profiting from the securityI imagine this sort of scrutiny would piss off some of his tenants and maybe he wants to avoid giving them more reasons to find a less disruptive place to work/live.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 10:23 AM on April 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
Trump having any shame whatsoever about wasting public money to line his pockets is a new one.
posted by Artw at 10:30 AM on April 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:30 AM on April 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
Talez, are you saying considered the President receives greater protection than the First Lady or his children? That surprises me because I would have thought the threat regarding each would normally be approximately equal. Or maybe I've watched too much 24.
No I'm saying that transporting the President wrecks up the place that he goes. Once he's there they obviously don't have to keep all the roads closed but going from A to B is basically a massive motorcade clusterfuck that breaks whatever city it happens to. The more dense the city, the longer it breaks.
posted by Talez at 10:36 AM on April 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
No I'm saying that transporting the President wrecks up the place that he goes. Once he's there they obviously don't have to keep all the roads closed but going from A to B is basically a massive motorcade clusterfuck that breaks whatever city it happens to. The more dense the city, the longer it breaks.
posted by Talez at 10:36 AM on April 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
I imagine this sort of scrutiny would piss off some of his tenants and maybe he wants to avoid giving them more reasons to find a less disruptive place to work/live.
Just the opposite. Trump Tower has raised rents and introduced new marketing.
“Fifth Avenue Buyers Interested in Secret Service Protection?” reads one ad.
“The New Aminity [sic] – The United States Secret Service.” reads another.
He started this advertising campaign a week after he won the election even before he took office.
posted by JackFlash at 11:13 AM on April 29, 2017 [30 favorites]
Just the opposite. Trump Tower has raised rents and introduced new marketing.
“Fifth Avenue Buyers Interested in Secret Service Protection?” reads one ad.
“The New Aminity [sic] – The United States Secret Service.” reads another.
He started this advertising campaign a week after he won the election even before he took office.
posted by JackFlash at 11:13 AM on April 29, 2017 [30 favorites]
I feel like it should probably be illegal for a U.S. government employee to advertise and sell the services of a U.S. government agency for personal profit. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by mrgoat at 11:19 AM on April 29, 2017 [58 favorites]
posted by mrgoat at 11:19 AM on April 29, 2017 [58 favorites]
I think the general idea is that laws are suspended for the duration, because fuck you, and no consequences will be faced ever. Would very much like that last bit to turn out to not be true.
posted by Artw at 11:25 AM on April 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Artw at 11:25 AM on April 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
FoxNews: Trump says trips to New York City cost the US too much
What's the opposite of poker face? Because that's what Trump's got here, transparently trying to sell the idea that he'd go to NY all the time if he could & it's not at all true that Melania's separated from him & nearing divorce. He's such an incredibly bad liar.
posted by scalefree at 11:30 AM on April 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
What's the opposite of poker face? Because that's what Trump's got here, transparently trying to sell the idea that he'd go to NY all the time if he could & it's not at all true that Melania's separated from him & nearing divorce. He's such an incredibly bad liar.
posted by scalefree at 11:30 AM on April 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
100 Words By 10 Writers On 100 Days: Eileen Myles
I don’t need my president good-looking but I do cringe at the pain that radiates from this unhappy swollen man. I imagine his father demanding he be a right-brained dominant venal money maker like himself. Instead the kid was a comedian who wanted to be loved. Who couldn’t try out for theater, or do standup at the college pub. Trump’s self-hate, his contempt for vulnerability, for women, and national parks brands him unerringly as the next great failed artist after Hitler. Can’t dance or play — Donald must rule. It’s hard to watch his masculine failure to become.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:43 AM on April 29, 2017 [21 favorites]
I don’t need my president good-looking but I do cringe at the pain that radiates from this unhappy swollen man. I imagine his father demanding he be a right-brained dominant venal money maker like himself. Instead the kid was a comedian who wanted to be loved. Who couldn’t try out for theater, or do standup at the college pub. Trump’s self-hate, his contempt for vulnerability, for women, and national parks brands him unerringly as the next great failed artist after Hitler. Can’t dance or play — Donald must rule. It’s hard to watch his masculine failure to become.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:43 AM on April 29, 2017 [21 favorites]
The Secret Service has, similarly, paid $64,000 for “elevator services” in Trump Tower. This is a fairly normal kind of expense for the agency, paying a building money to defray the inconvenience of taking elevators offline so they can be inspected for security purposes
I mean, at what point can we say "If having your life protected is so much of an inconvenience you have to be paid to do it, we'd rather not?" Like, if I had free bodyguards, I'd be like, "the couch is over here, stay as long as you like." Trump seems like the only one who's ever pulled "if you're going to stay on my couch you better be paying me rent."
posted by corb at 11:52 AM on April 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
I mean, at what point can we say "If having your life protected is so much of an inconvenience you have to be paid to do it, we'd rather not?" Like, if I had free bodyguards, I'd be like, "the couch is over here, stay as long as you like." Trump seems like the only one who's ever pulled "if you're going to stay on my couch you better be paying me rent."
posted by corb at 11:52 AM on April 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
Wow, Rm317, that is a perspective I hadn't considered in the Trump patriarchal dynamic, and it rings so very true to me. I've said it before, I feel sad for little mediocre Donnie Trump but enraged that the entire world is paying for the damage that the man Donald Trump has never processed.
posted by thebrokedown at 11:54 AM on April 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by thebrokedown at 11:54 AM on April 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
What's the opposite of poker face? Because that's what Trump's got here, transparently trying to sell the idea that he'd go to NY all the time if he could & it's not at all true that Melania's separated from him & nearing divorce.
There's a real hunger out there to prove that the Trumps are in a doomed, loveless marriage. It remains weird and gross, and echoes the way that those in the right have tried to climb inside the Clinton and Obama marriages.
posted by Going To Maine at 11:58 AM on April 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
There's a real hunger out there to prove that the Trumps are in a doomed, loveless marriage. It remains weird and gross, and echoes the way that those in the right have tried to climb inside the Clinton and Obama marriages.
posted by Going To Maine at 11:58 AM on April 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
Perhaps the true horror is that, at the end of all that failure to process anything, the President is okay with himself.
posted by Going To Maine at 12:00 PM on April 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 12:00 PM on April 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
I kind of expected him to drop into NYC more, honestly. It would cost the city a shit-ton of money, piss off a lot of people who didn't vote for him, and make a profit at the same time. It would combine his two favorite things: being a petty, vindictive asshole, and making money.
posted by mrgoat at 12:04 PM on April 29, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by mrgoat at 12:04 PM on April 29, 2017 [15 favorites]
Like, I've of the word ironies of the man is that despite being a merit less void we can't stop trying to get into his head to find out what's there. We assume there is meaning in him because if there isn't then life is absurd.
posted by Going To Maine at 12:12 PM on April 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 12:12 PM on April 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
The tale of the dictator’s daughter and her prince by Sarah Kendzior
While novel to the US, the Trump family dynamic may be familiar for citizens of authoritarian kleptocracies. One has seen it in Central Asian states like Uzbekistan and in countless other countries where rulers consolidate power and strip the country’s resources for their personal benefit.posted by OnceUponATime at 12:12 PM on April 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
WaPo Analysis: Trump is now talking about consolidating his power
President Trump has suggested that the judiciary doesn't have the authority to question him. He was a very early proponent of nuking the filibuster for Supreme Court Justice Neil M. Gorsuch. And he recently raised eyebrows by congratulating Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan on the expansion of his presidential powers — echoing his previous admiration for strongman leaders.posted by OnceUponATime at 12:17 PM on April 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
Now Trump is talking about consolidating his own power.
In an interview with Fox News that aired Friday night, Trump dismissed the “archaic” rules of the House and Senate — using that word four times — and suggested they needed to be streamlined for the good of the country.
WSJ: Tillerson Proposes 2,300 Job Cuts From State Department
Mr. Tillerson’s proposal still demonstrates his belief that State has become bloated and inefficient. “We have undertaken a budget exercise to accommodate as best we can the president’s objective to reduce the cost of what we do over here at the State Department,” he said on Fox News this week.posted by OnceUponATime at 12:22 PM on April 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
I wonder if he still thinks that Trump Tower is "wire tapped"? Or is it just that Trump Tower doesn't have enough fun things to do and spaces for him to invite other rich assholes to gawk at the trappings of his presidency?
posted by gladly at 12:22 PM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by gladly at 12:22 PM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Josh Marshall has an editorial take at Talking Points Memo: "Thinking About Trump's 100 Day Fail"
When we consider the 100 day marker, it is not so much that Trump has accomplished virtually nothing of substance. It is that nothing of substance is really underway either. That’s the key thing.posted by Going To Maine at 12:28 PM on April 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
Or is it just that Trump Tower doesn't have enough fun things to do and spaces for him to invite other rich assholes to gawk at the trappings of his presidency?I think it's that. There's no golf course at the Trump Tower.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 12:29 PM on April 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
I kind of expected him to drop into NYC more, honestly.
I didn't. We fucking hate him, and New Yorkers aren't known for being shy. I know narcissists can thrive on negative attention, too, but you gotta imagine that the pull of adoring crowds would still win out.
On Trump consolidating power: I have no doubt he wants to. I don't think he's competent or popular enough to do anything like this, though.
For real, the only thing keeping me from having panic attacks about the rise of fascism is how bewilderingly inept they all are.
This does not help with the fear of a nuclear crisis or global pandemic, but I suppose you can't have everything.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:31 PM on April 29, 2017 [26 favorites]
I didn't. We fucking hate him, and New Yorkers aren't known for being shy. I know narcissists can thrive on negative attention, too, but you gotta imagine that the pull of adoring crowds would still win out.
On Trump consolidating power: I have no doubt he wants to. I don't think he's competent or popular enough to do anything like this, though.
For real, the only thing keeping me from having panic attacks about the rise of fascism is how bewilderingly inept they all are.
This does not help with the fear of a nuclear crisis or global pandemic, but I suppose you can't have everything.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:31 PM on April 29, 2017 [26 favorites]
And two more important stories from my Facebook feed that I don't think have shown up here yet...
Guardian Facebook admits: governments exploited us to spread propaganda
614: The Other Mr. President
Guardian Facebook admits: governments exploited us to spread propaganda
Facebook has publicly acknowledged that its platform has been exploited by governments seeking to manipulate public opinion in other countries – including during the presidential elections in the US and France – and pledged to clamp down on such “information operations”.Inside Russia’s Fake News Playbook by Clint Watts for the Daily Beast
In a white paper authored by the company’s security team and published on Thursday, the company detailed well-funded and subtle techniques used by nations and other organizations to spread misleading information and falsehoods for geopolitical goals.
My remarks today will further expand on my previous testimony to the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence where I detailed the research Andrew Weisburd, J.M. Berger, and I published regarding Russian attempts to harm our democracy via social media influence.Oh, and from my podcast feed, a really remarkable window into Russian politics on This American Life last week.
614: The Other Mr. President
Since Russia meddled in our election, there's been concern that the fake news and disinformation that's so prevalent there could be taking hold in this country. But is that hyperbole? This week we look at what it's actually like to live in the confusing information landscape that is Putin's Russia.posted by OnceUponATime at 12:33 PM on April 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
This morning he was claiming that his trips to Mar-A-Lago cost nothing. Everyone was confused by that because they cost the tax payers millions, so either he meant cost him, Trump, nothing or he was flat out lying.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:39 PM on April 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:39 PM on April 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
Oh wait, sorry, there was this Vox link I wanted to share too because it's a genius idea, if we could actually implement it...
This voting reform solves 2 of America’s biggest political problems
posted by OnceUponATime at 12:41 PM on April 29, 2017 [17 favorites]
This voting reform solves 2 of America’s biggest political problems
We’ve gotten used to our winner-take-all approach to elections, but proportional representation needn’t be a pie-in-the-sky idea. A group called FairVote has proposed the Fair Representation Act, which would transform the patchwork of state-level congressional districts into a larger ones — typically with three to five members for each district. Members would be elected through a ranked-voting system —an additional reform that lets voters express their true preference while expressing a secondary preference for someone from among the more viable candidates.Okay, link dump complete.
FairVote’s proposal is constitutional — the Constitution offers states quite a bit of leeway in selecting representatives — but it would require national legislation to reverse existing law mandating single-member districts. The proposal has historical precedent, however: It would move us back to the multi-member districts that were once more common. There would still be 435 members of Congress.
posted by OnceUponATime at 12:41 PM on April 29, 2017 [17 favorites]
Tillerson doesn't actually do anything so he assumes everyone else is the same. Dude is even more of an empty chair than Trump.
posted by Artw at 12:42 PM on April 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Artw at 12:42 PM on April 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
Guardian Facebook admits: governments exploited us to spread propaganda
Just as important than the Facebook report is Emptywheel's analysis of how weaksauce it is.
posted by rhizome at 12:42 PM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Just as important than the Facebook report is Emptywheel's analysis of how weaksauce it is.
posted by rhizome at 12:42 PM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
It seems like, given Syria, our bellicosity towards NK at the moment, and everything else, more State Department hands on deck are needed, Tillerson. You fucking child.
How many people does it take to create a situation that requires the military to clean up?
posted by rhizome at 12:43 PM on April 29, 2017
How many people does it take to create a situation that requires the military to clean up?
posted by rhizome at 12:43 PM on April 29, 2017
How many people does it take to create a situation that requires the military to clean up?
Oooh! I know this one!
Two. Trump to fuck it up, and Bannon to drink 'till the room spins.
or am I thinking of a different joke?
posted by mrgoat at 12:47 PM on April 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
Oooh! I know this one!
Two. Trump to fuck it up, and Bannon to drink 'till the room spins.
or am I thinking of a different joke?
posted by mrgoat at 12:47 PM on April 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
America Is Getting Used to Trump’s Insanity
I've noticed this, too. I've felt this, too. At this point, I'm worn out and it's just impossible to keep up with everything anymore. It is a drain on my well-being; but not paying attention is a direct threat to my survival. It's a maddening situation.
I think a large part of the problem is everyone's willingness to not directly combat Trump's shotgun strategy. He and those he is appointing to power have established a pattern of doing at least six impossible, outrageous, egregiously offensive, harmful and awful things before breakfast. About a third of those things are really big deals, but often many amount to petty personal grudges, Twitter fights and general nastiness. Even outlets that have done well to document the really important, scary threats-to-minorities-society-and-global-survival-of-the-species stuff trip over themselves to moon over the really stupid, vapid things. Guardian US' front page has been half great journalism into Trump's various trajectories for disaster and half Trump tabloid for months.
All this mirrors Putin's approach of blasting out a million awful things at once to sow confusion and mental exhaustion in opponents. The Republican party as a whole is adopting this approach more and more as well. We've seen numerous anti-trans and anti-LGB bills since Trump's ascent, and the attitude from liberals is still, "They always run these and they always get shot down." Yes, but this year they're running like seven redundant versions of the same bills per state in the hopes that one won't get shot down, and that strategy is working.
We really need a filter for all this; ways of better sorting Trump & Friends' actions according to affected domains and severity and what not. Otherwise, it's just going to continue breaking many of our brains struggling to swim upstream against a tidal wave of irradiated garbage. Another danger in this is too much fragmentation; I've joined a number of groups doing practical work to combat specific issues, but there is so much going on that it's impossible to juggle it all anymore.
posted by byanyothername at 1:02 PM on April 29, 2017 [46 favorites]
I've noticed this, too. I've felt this, too. At this point, I'm worn out and it's just impossible to keep up with everything anymore. It is a drain on my well-being; but not paying attention is a direct threat to my survival. It's a maddening situation.
I think a large part of the problem is everyone's willingness to not directly combat Trump's shotgun strategy. He and those he is appointing to power have established a pattern of doing at least six impossible, outrageous, egregiously offensive, harmful and awful things before breakfast. About a third of those things are really big deals, but often many amount to petty personal grudges, Twitter fights and general nastiness. Even outlets that have done well to document the really important, scary threats-to-minorities-society-and-global-survival-of-the-species stuff trip over themselves to moon over the really stupid, vapid things. Guardian US' front page has been half great journalism into Trump's various trajectories for disaster and half Trump tabloid for months.
All this mirrors Putin's approach of blasting out a million awful things at once to sow confusion and mental exhaustion in opponents. The Republican party as a whole is adopting this approach more and more as well. We've seen numerous anti-trans and anti-LGB bills since Trump's ascent, and the attitude from liberals is still, "They always run these and they always get shot down." Yes, but this year they're running like seven redundant versions of the same bills per state in the hopes that one won't get shot down, and that strategy is working.
We really need a filter for all this; ways of better sorting Trump & Friends' actions according to affected domains and severity and what not. Otherwise, it's just going to continue breaking many of our brains struggling to swim upstream against a tidal wave of irradiated garbage. Another danger in this is too much fragmentation; I've joined a number of groups doing practical work to combat specific issues, but there is so much going on that it's impossible to juggle it all anymore.
posted by byanyothername at 1:02 PM on April 29, 2017 [46 favorites]
Francis Fukuyama, WaPo: Trump has already started building a legacy. It’s highly negative.
At the 100-day mark, it seems clear that the system is working properly and that Trump is more likely to go down in history as a weak and ineffective president than as an American tyrant. Apart from the appointment of Neil M. Gorsuch to the Supreme Court, he has failed to carry through on any of his major campaign promises such as stopping Muslim immigration or building his “big, beautiful” wall. His most abject failure was the effort to replace Obamacare with the American Health Care Act, which had to be withdrawn for lack of votes. This absence of winning (is it called “losing”?) unfolded even as the Republican Party controls both houses of Congress and the presidency.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:10 PM on April 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
There are multiple sources of this weakness.
Trump seems like the only one who's ever pulled "if you're going to stay on my couch you better be paying me rent."
No, the Secret Service always pays fair market rates wherever it operates.
But no previous president has owned the buildings he's demanding protection in.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:11 PM on April 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
No, the Secret Service always pays fair market rates wherever it operates.
But no previous president has owned the buildings he's demanding protection in.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:11 PM on April 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
When discussing the zombie ACHA just remember folks, 425% surcharge for anyone who's given birth. FOUR HUNDRED AND TWENTY-FIVE PERCENT.
Why this isn't wall to wall on every talk show I don't know. I'm apparently the only one who can read a chart.
posted by threeturtles at 1:16 PM on April 29, 2017 [58 favorites]
Why this isn't wall to wall on every talk show I don't know. I'm apparently the only one who can read a chart.
posted by threeturtles at 1:16 PM on April 29, 2017 [58 favorites]
This worries me in the longer term:
Sandhya Somashekhar, WaPo: Trump has galvanized activists on the left. Can they stay energized?
Sandhya Somashekhar, WaPo: Trump has galvanized activists on the left. Can they stay energized?
It is unclear whether this nascent Democratic movement can maintain enough momentum to create change as effectively as tea party conservatives did after Barack Obama’s election. […] Liberals seeking to build a similar power base face different challenges. They remain fractured after the election, some still identifying as supporters of Hillary Clinton or her foe in the Democratic primary, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.). They argue over ideological purity, such as whether there is space in the Democratic Party for opponents of abortion rights, for example.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:18 PM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Progressives have other structural challenges that make their task more difficult, particularly their concentration in big cities and university towns and their tendency to mobilize more for presidential elections than state and local ones.
Two. Trump to fuck it up, and Bannon to drink 'till the room spins.
Ah, then those 2300 State Department employees were indeed superfluous.
posted by rhizome at 1:24 PM on April 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Ah, then those 2300 State Department employees were indeed superfluous.
posted by rhizome at 1:24 PM on April 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Immigrant Defenders Law Center (FB link): Erik came to the US as an unaccompanied minor fleeing horrific violence and seeking refuge from death threats. After arriving to the US, Erik was placed in a children’s shelter while he fought his deportation case. He has an asylum application pending and is committed to fighting his case. Erik turns 18 years old today, but what would be a celebration for most kids, will be the beginning of a new nightmare for Erik. ICE came to his shelter this morning, placed him in shackles and detained him. He is currently in custody on his way to an adult ICE detention facility.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:26 PM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:26 PM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
So a couple hundred Midwestern factory jobs were a matter of intense national interest requiring intervention from the President of the United States (despite the fact that a lot of them got laid off anyway), but 2,300 State Department jobs are expendable?
posted by zachlipton at 1:27 PM on April 29, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 1:27 PM on April 29, 2017 [22 favorites]
It looks like Milo Yiannapoulos is continuing to be a vile piece of shit.
posted by corb at 1:32 PM on April 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by corb at 1:32 PM on April 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
I know we need to worry about today's problems before dealing with tomorrow's, but Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg is doing little PR events that indicate a future run at politics and the presidency.
NBC Columbus: Ohio family surprised when Mark Zuckerberg comes to dinner [real]
They begged him to leave, but he wouldn’t. “This is happening,” he told them. [fake]
Oh, just go away already.
posted by Servo5678 at 1:36 PM on April 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
NBC Columbus: Ohio family surprised when Mark Zuckerberg comes to dinner [real]
They begged him to leave, but he wouldn’t. “This is happening,” he told them. [fake]
Oh, just go away already.
posted by Servo5678 at 1:36 PM on April 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
This just in from a source with knowledge of Comey's investigation. "two grand juries have convened and I know that one is almost complete."
posted by yoga at 1:43 PM on April 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by yoga at 1:43 PM on April 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
But no previous president has owned the buildings he's demanding protection in.
No previous president has operated his properties as a for-profit landlord or club owner, but plenty of presidents have received Secret Service protection at vacation properties that they personally owned. GW Bush had his Crawford ranch, GHW Bush had his Kennebunkport compound, Reagan had Rancho del Cielo in Santa Barbara, Nixon owned a Western White House and a Southern White House, LBJ had his Stonewall, Texas ranch (which he donated to the National Park Service), and Kennedy had the Hyannis compound. They all received secret service protection while living, working, and vacationing at these places and were reimbursed by the USSS at a fair market rate for the use of facilities that they required.
posted by peeedro at 1:44 PM on April 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
No previous president has operated his properties as a for-profit landlord or club owner, but plenty of presidents have received Secret Service protection at vacation properties that they personally owned. GW Bush had his Crawford ranch, GHW Bush had his Kennebunkport compound, Reagan had Rancho del Cielo in Santa Barbara, Nixon owned a Western White House and a Southern White House, LBJ had his Stonewall, Texas ranch (which he donated to the National Park Service), and Kennedy had the Hyannis compound. They all received secret service protection while living, working, and vacationing at these places and were reimbursed by the USSS at a fair market rate for the use of facilities that they required.
posted by peeedro at 1:44 PM on April 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
I know we need to worry about today's problems before dealing with tomorrow's, but Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg is doing little PR events that indicate a future run at politics and the presidency.
I still don't fully get what he's up to, because these trips sure as heck look like what you do when you want to run for office, but I've been informed by people in a position to know that this theory is hilariously wrong. Engineer's Disease taken to 11?
posted by zachlipton at 1:51 PM on April 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
I still don't fully get what he's up to, because these trips sure as heck look like what you do when you want to run for office, but I've been informed by people in a position to know that this theory is hilariously wrong. Engineer's Disease taken to 11?
posted by zachlipton at 1:51 PM on April 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
I still don't fully get what he's up to, because these trips sure as heck look like what you do when you want to run for office, but I've been informed by people in a position to know that this theory is hilariously wrong. Engineer's Disease taken to 11?
Maybe he's built a Genesis Ark and is looking for worthy people to populate it.
posted by Servo5678 at 1:56 PM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Maybe he's built a Genesis Ark and is looking for worthy people to populate it.
posted by Servo5678 at 1:56 PM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
I know we need to worry about today's problems before dealing with tomorrow's, but Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg is doing little PR events that indicate a future run at politics and the presidency.
I can't think of anyone more likely to lose to Trump, again. This needs to be stamped out immediately. Get on it, California.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:14 PM on April 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
I can't think of anyone more likely to lose to Trump, again. This needs to be stamped out immediately. Get on it, California.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:14 PM on April 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Wtf is wrong with people who are like "oh I'm good at X so I obviously can run for the highest elected office in the country with no previous political or government experience"?! Like sure I'd hold my nose and vote for Zuckerberg against Trump if it came to that. But it would be messed up and insulting to the many many more competent and experienced people.
posted by R343L at 2:19 PM on April 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by R343L at 2:19 PM on April 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
I mean, assuming he's really and truly not thinking of running for anything, I sort of do get it, flippant comments about engineer's disease aside. (Though I do not understand the hiring of photographers and videographers and turning this into such a public thing.) He's running a $440 billion company that depends on understanding its users at a pretty deep level if it's going to deliver anywhere near the kind of profit that valuation calls for. And right now, from the perspective of, say, a Facebook employee, there's a huge chunk of this country, by far their most profitable market, that seems vexingly hard to understand. So I understand the impulse to get out and try to improve that situation a little bit.
What I don't understand if that's the case is the self-promotion Zuckerberg has attached to it, because that's the part that looks an awful lot like a political campaign, and if the idea of him running for office is as misguided as people say, it's unclear why he's acting in a way that obviously gives that impression.
posted by zachlipton at 2:36 PM on April 29, 2017
What I don't understand if that's the case is the self-promotion Zuckerberg has attached to it, because that's the part that looks an awful lot like a political campaign, and if the idea of him running for office is as misguided as people say, it's unclear why he's acting in a way that obviously gives that impression.
posted by zachlipton at 2:36 PM on April 29, 2017
Mod note: Couple deleted. Let's skip having a proxy Clinton fight about whether it's ok to abstain from voting for someone who isn't even running for office yet.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 2:47 PM on April 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 2:47 PM on April 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
We really need a filter for all this; ways of better sorting Trump & Friends' actions according to affected domains and severity and what not. Otherwise, it's just going to continue breaking many of our brains struggling to swim upstream against a tidal wave of irradiated garbage.
I've noticed that if Trump or anyone connected to the White House mentions MLK, Hitler, or 9/11, it's like hitting media and social media in the knee with a rubber hammer. There's twitching and gasping and a reliably extensive squawking that moves attention away from more criminal offenses. Not sure if it's a planned strategy, but Bannon's not as simple as Trump, so it could be.
posted by puddledork at 3:05 PM on April 29, 2017
I've noticed that if Trump or anyone connected to the White House mentions MLK, Hitler, or 9/11, it's like hitting media and social media in the knee with a rubber hammer. There's twitching and gasping and a reliably extensive squawking that moves attention away from more criminal offenses. Not sure if it's a planned strategy, but Bannon's not as simple as Trump, so it could be.
posted by puddledork at 3:05 PM on April 29, 2017
National Treasure Alexandra Petri is preparing for her big assignment: What not to do at the White House correspondents' dinner (WaPo).
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:05 PM on April 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:05 PM on April 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
On the Comey grand jury front: I'm seeing two strains of commenting on this on Twitter. One is " the grand jury is for Hillary's emails." The other is "Comey isn't a US attorney and can't convene a grand jury! Unpossible fake news!" How long does a grand jury convene for? Could this be something Yates kicked off, or that began under the Obama administration? Or is it likely all wishful thinking?
And would Chaffetz know about the progress of said grand juries? 'Cuz dude sure seems spooked about something.
posted by Andrhia at 3:15 PM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
And would Chaffetz know about the progress of said grand juries? 'Cuz dude sure seems spooked about something.
posted by Andrhia at 3:15 PM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
when i see rumors that THE ADMINISTRATION IS GOING DOWN ANY MINUTE NOW, the best thing for my sanity is to assume that no one is working to save us. which has proven correct so far and saved me many broken hearts.
posted by murphy slaw at 3:30 PM on April 29, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 3:30 PM on April 29, 2017 [30 favorites]
Sometimes good things happen.
People Across This State Put On Tutus In A Show Of Love, Tolerance, & Acceptance
posted by chris24 at 3:40 PM on April 29, 2017 [33 favorites]
People Across This State Put On Tutus In A Show Of Love, Tolerance, & Acceptance
A photo says a thousand words, so the saying goes. Then what do a thousand photos of people wearing tutus in bars say? In Wyoming, those photos say tolerance, acceptance, and love.The slideshow of images is well worth a gander.
...
The hashtag #LiveAndLetTutu signaled a protest from people who believe that Wyoming's State Motto, Live And Let Live, extends to everyone. Patrick Harrington and Mike Vanata, two of the protest organizers, live in Laramie, the hometown of the late Matthew Shepard, a gay teen who was brutally murdered. "I’m really upset that Wyoming kind of lives in this dark shadow of a myth that we’re just a completely gay-hating state or something,” Vanata told Wyoming Public Media. “And I think from this action, we’re correcting that.”
posted by chris24 at 3:40 PM on April 29, 2017 [33 favorites]
Metfilter: [pterodactyl noise]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 3:43 PM on April 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 3:43 PM on April 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
Great Moments in Bullshit Fox News Infographics.
posted by tonycpsu at 3:49 PM on April 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 3:49 PM on April 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
They're still chanting "lock her up" at the Trump rally (waiting for him to arrive). In case you thought anything had changed or whatever.
posted by zachlipton at 4:02 PM on April 29, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 4:02 PM on April 29, 2017 [27 favorites]
Economic anxiety.
posted by Artw at 4:11 PM on April 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by Artw at 4:11 PM on April 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
“[A] range of media critics, political operatives, historians and more” provide a list of thirteen bullet point “lessons” about the President to Politico Magazine that “the media” has yet to learn: “What the Press Still Doesn’t Get About Trump”:
posted by Going To Maine at 4:12 PM on April 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
- We forget what has always driven Trump.
- Trump. Won’t. Change.
- We still trust the polls too much.
- ‘Trump is crazy’ has become a cliché.
- We’re not only stuck in bubbles—social media is making them worse.
- We’re still ignoring the people who elected Trump.
- We’re falling for the ‘Trump exceptionalism’ trap.
- We should take Trump’s tweets more seriously.
- The media’s priorities are all wrong.
- We haven’t nailed the biggest story.
- The press is still biased against Trump.
- Trump’s success depends just as much on what happens outside Washington.
- Most people don’t care about Trump’s lies.
14. The media hasn't and won't accept its role in creating Trump.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:45 PM on April 29, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:45 PM on April 29, 2017 [29 favorites]
At least one problem with the above takes, I should note, is that the media is thirteen different things to thirteen people
posted by Going To Maine at 4:50 PM on April 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 4:50 PM on April 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
But then, the idea that the media is both one thing and also a million things is beyond tired and had been an accepted fact of life for more than a hundred years, so whatever.
posted by Going To Maine at 4:56 PM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Going To Maine at 4:56 PM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
How can anyone watch this rally, complete with Trump decrying CNN and MSNBC as "fake news" as the crowd boos the press, and conclude that he's changed one bit from the campaign?
posted by zachlipton at 4:58 PM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 4:58 PM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
10pm Eastern on TBS, 11pm streaming. There's a "red carpet" at 9pm too.
And for your simultaneous viewing needs, the Correspondents' Association Dinner starts at 9:30, streaming here.
posted by zachlipton at 5:04 PM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
And for your simultaneous viewing needs, the Correspondents' Association Dinner starts at 9:30, streaming here.
posted by zachlipton at 5:04 PM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
14. The media hasn't and won't accept its role in creating Trump.
QFT. And despite staring into the contorted orange maw of this travesty every day, is incapable of using the words "unfit", "lie", or "collusion" ever - excepting within the confines of a tepid-and-therefore-self-defeating "some say" construct.
Why is anyone giving the corporate news media full privileges and immunities anymore? I would remind ever-so-contrite and reformed MSNBC and CNN amongst many others, YOU. GOT. US. HERE. Fix It! Go!
Occasional NYT Opinion section, I appreciate it but maybe just take a walk for a little while, get some fresh air, see your families or something. You're not doing the most good up there.
posted by petebest at 5:08 PM on April 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
QFT. And despite staring into the contorted orange maw of this travesty every day, is incapable of using the words "unfit", "lie", or "collusion" ever - excepting within the confines of a tepid-and-therefore-self-defeating "some say" construct.
Why is anyone giving the corporate news media full privileges and immunities anymore? I would remind ever-so-contrite and reformed MSNBC and CNN amongst many others, YOU. GOT. US. HERE. Fix It! Go!
Occasional NYT Opinion section, I appreciate it but maybe just take a walk for a little while, get some fresh air, see your families or something. You're not doing the most good up there.
posted by petebest at 5:08 PM on April 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
TruthHawk: "The Meme That Is Normalizing Trump"
I just discovered that site right now and I am still not sure what it is, that article was framed in a very clickbait way, but I'll give them a pass for a moment because their article about the neurotic nature of internet forums seems pretty spot-on and covers a phenomenon that isn't talked about often. Regarding the Trump meme, it sounds pretty catastrophic and weak, but there does seem to be an unconscious trend towards normalization of Trump from "he's a fascist" to "he's just incompetent" and if anything this past year has shown, it's that times can shift so drastically that formerly denounced-as-war-criminal George Bush is now seen (by some) as an honorary member of #theResistance simply for mildly criticizing Trump. This meme might not be the best example of the current shift on Trump, but it's worth considering.
posted by Apocryphon at 5:18 PM on April 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
I just discovered that site right now and I am still not sure what it is, that article was framed in a very clickbait way, but I'll give them a pass for a moment because their article about the neurotic nature of internet forums seems pretty spot-on and covers a phenomenon that isn't talked about often. Regarding the Trump meme, it sounds pretty catastrophic and weak, but there does seem to be an unconscious trend towards normalization of Trump from "he's a fascist" to "he's just incompetent" and if anything this past year has shown, it's that times can shift so drastically that formerly denounced-as-war-criminal George Bush is now seen (by some) as an honorary member of #theResistance simply for mildly criticizing Trump. This meme might not be the best example of the current shift on Trump, but it's worth considering.
posted by Apocryphon at 5:18 PM on April 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
He almost said China was going to help us stop North Dakota a minute ago
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:23 PM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:23 PM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
All the shit about bubbles and really most of the rest of the list are all about doubling down on 14 as well.
posted by Artw at 5:34 PM on April 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 5:34 PM on April 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Well it's been a while, but he's legit doing The Snake. The President of the United States is reading The Snake.
posted by zachlipton at 5:36 PM on April 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 5:36 PM on April 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
Well it's been a while, but he's legit doing The Snake. The President of the United States is reading The Snake.
It's extra fuckin' creepy this time, too
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:38 PM on April 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's extra fuckin' creepy this time, too
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:38 PM on April 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Every super villain need his theme song.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:39 PM on April 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:39 PM on April 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
if trump did irony, "The Snake" would be him mocking us. as it is, it's just dramatic irony because he's not in on the joke.
posted by murphy slaw at 5:41 PM on April 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 5:41 PM on April 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
Are you seeing this shit? It's like Air Force One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:41 PM on April 29, 2017 [49 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:41 PM on April 29, 2017 [49 favorites]
"Mr President, if I could give you one piece of advice tonight it's this: be sure to read a long poem that makes it sound like you're a snake sexually harassing a woman"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:44 PM on April 29, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:44 PM on April 29, 2017 [23 favorites]
They're now playing classic hit You Can't Always Get What You Want Due To The Electoral College
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:48 PM on April 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:48 PM on April 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
And exit to "You Can't Always Get What You Want." Are we absolutely positively sure he's not just really really damn good at irony?
posted by zachlipton at 5:49 PM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 5:49 PM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Trump lumbering around to You Can't Always Get What You Want while slack jawed yokels scream their approvals sums up the 100 days pretty well.
posted by angrybear at 5:52 PM on April 29, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by angrybear at 5:52 PM on April 29, 2017 [20 favorites]
There's a real hunger out there to prove that the Trumps are in a doomed, loveless marriage. It remains weird and gross, and echoes the way that those in the right have tried to climb inside the Clinton and Obama marriages.
I get what you're saying & agree that there is some of the mirror image of the Right's cartoonish attacks going on but this isn't that. All the experts are saying Trump is a malignant narcissist which would make him actually incapable of emotions like love at all. But even if he's just your lower grade basic NPD case any love he could feel would be self-serving & shallow. I stand ready to be corrected by anyone with training but that's my layman's understanding of it.
posted by scalefree at 5:52 PM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
I get what you're saying & agree that there is some of the mirror image of the Right's cartoonish attacks going on but this isn't that. All the experts are saying Trump is a malignant narcissist which would make him actually incapable of emotions like love at all. But even if he's just your lower grade basic NPD case any love he could feel would be self-serving & shallow. I stand ready to be corrected by anyone with training but that's my layman's understanding of it.
posted by scalefree at 5:52 PM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
What the hell is THE SNAKE?
posted by vrakatar at 5:53 PM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by vrakatar at 5:53 PM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
I don't think there's anything doomed about their loveless marriage, pretty sure she'll stick it out for the length of the contract.
posted by Artw at 5:55 PM on April 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Artw at 5:55 PM on April 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
WaPo:
President Trump: In my first 100 days, I kept my promise to Americans
of course, if donald trump was actually involved in the production of this piece, i am marie of roumania
posted by murphy slaw at 6:07 PM on April 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
President Trump: In my first 100 days, I kept my promise to Americans
of course, if donald trump was actually involved in the production of this piece, i am marie of roumania
posted by murphy slaw at 6:07 PM on April 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
What the hell is THE SNAKE?
It sure as hell isn't THE JACKAL.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:08 PM on April 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
He kept his promise
Please keep your distance
Don't cry for him, 'Mericana
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:09 PM on April 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
Please keep your distance
Don't cry for him, 'Mericana
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:09 PM on April 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
the truth is, I never left my portfolio of holdings
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:19 PM on April 29, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:19 PM on April 29, 2017 [28 favorites]
What spin does he put on "The Snake" that makes it favorable to him? That's just bizarre.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:11 PM on April 29, 2017
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:11 PM on April 29, 2017
That it's about letting refugees in. The fear of the other is the invariable element in the liturgy of a Trump rally.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:13 PM on April 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:13 PM on April 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
the truth is, I never left my portfolio of holdings
When you saw that interest rates dropped, it was then that I modified your asset mix.
posted by rhizome at 7:16 PM on April 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
When you saw that interest rates dropped, it was then that I modified your asset mix.
posted by rhizome at 7:16 PM on April 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
We hear it as an admission of guilt by Trump but it works equally well as a disgusting racist anthem with refugees & migrants in the role of the snake.
posted by scalefree at 7:38 PM on April 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 7:38 PM on April 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
Oh..he actually recited the snake poem. I thought people were being metaphorical or something.
So bizarre.
posted by angrybear at 8:08 PM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
So bizarre.
posted by angrybear at 8:08 PM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
@arappeport: Trump invites Duterte to White House, says Philippines is "fighting very hard to rid its country of drugs."
(WH statement)
Something, something about being out of evens here; I don't even have the heart to come up with something to say.
posted by zachlipton at 8:11 PM on April 29, 2017 [24 favorites]
(WH statement)
Something, something about being out of evens here; I don't even have the heart to come up with something to say.
posted by zachlipton at 8:11 PM on April 29, 2017 [24 favorites]
There's certainly nothing disconcerting about this, nothing at all
posted by tonycpsu at 8:17 PM on April 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 8:17 PM on April 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
There's certainly nothing disconcerting about this, nothing at all
Instead of total mystery meat links could people add a bit of a description? Not everyone has a super fast connection or unlimited data plus it helps folks who are searching by keyword to see if something has been posted already. thank you:)
posted by futz at 8:34 PM on April 29, 2017 [34 favorites]
Instead of total mystery meat links could people add a bit of a description? Not everyone has a super fast connection or unlimited data plus it helps folks who are searching by keyword to see if something has been posted already. thank you:)
posted by futz at 8:34 PM on April 29, 2017 [34 favorites]
There's certainly nothing disconcerting about this, nothing at all
Wayne LaPierre at the NRA convention yesterday, "It's up to us to speak up against the three most dangerous voices in America: academic elites, political elites, and media elites. These are America's greatest domestic threats."
posted by petebest at 8:40 PM on April 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
Wayne LaPierre at the NRA convention yesterday, "It's up to us to speak up against the three most dangerous voices in America: academic elites, political elites, and media elites. These are America's greatest domestic threats."
posted by petebest at 8:40 PM on April 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
Apparently Trump has named May Day Loyalty Day.
Trump called on Americans to observe this day with ceremonies in schools and other public places, including reciting the Pledge of Allegianceposted by corb at 8:53 PM on April 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
Loyalty Day has been happening for decades thanks to the Red Scare. However, as that article points out, different Presidents have highlighted different things in their proclamations, and Trump's emphasis on how "our Nation perseveres in the face of those who would seek to harm it" is rather ominous.
posted by zachlipton at 8:59 PM on April 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 8:59 PM on April 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
Jesus, zachlipton. What a thing to read before bed.
Trump's praise for Duterte and invitation to the White House come five days after "a Philippine lawyer filed a complaint at the ICC [...] against Duterte and senior officials of mass murder. The 77-page filing said Duterte "repeatedly, unchangingly and continuously" committed crimes against humanity." (source)
Sarah Kendzior:
Over last two weeks, Trump:
* invites murderer Duterte
* boosts fascist LePen
* congratulates Erdogan on dictatorship
* praises Kim Jong Un
posted by galaxy rise at 9:34 PM on April 29, 2017 [35 favorites]
Trump's praise for Duterte and invitation to the White House come five days after "a Philippine lawyer filed a complaint at the ICC [...] against Duterte and senior officials of mass murder. The 77-page filing said Duterte "repeatedly, unchangingly and continuously" committed crimes against humanity." (source)
Sarah Kendzior:
Over last two weeks, Trump:
* invites murderer Duterte
* boosts fascist LePen
* congratulates Erdogan on dictatorship
* praises Kim Jong Un
posted by galaxy rise at 9:34 PM on April 29, 2017 [35 favorites]
I mean, Trump ran for office bragging about how he could kill people and wouldn't lose voters, so why wouldn't he invite a President who admitted committing at least three murders?
posted by zachlipton at 9:37 PM on April 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 9:37 PM on April 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
Oh, my guess was Nazis at the rally.
Well, there was that too. Literal skinhead Nazis at the rally.
posted by chris24 at 9:45 PM on April 29, 2017 [14 favorites]
Well, there was that too. Literal skinhead Nazis at the rally.
posted by chris24 at 9:45 PM on April 29, 2017 [14 favorites]
If you want to feel a bit of hope, these hero kids came down all on their own to protest the Trump rally.
posted by Anonymous at 9:56 PM on April 29, 2017
posted by Anonymous at 9:56 PM on April 29, 2017
Also, from my hometown paper, the Boston Globe: Can white-power groups get past old differences and build lasting alliances?
Who needs sleep when you can run on pure outrage.
posted by galaxy rise at 10:01 PM on April 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
Who needs sleep when you can run on pure outrage.
posted by galaxy rise at 10:01 PM on April 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
It's cute, all you people learning of Trump doing 'the snake' for the first time. It's a classic of his. It's been over a year, surely, since I first saw him read it aloud at a rally. How short our memories are.
posted by dis_integration at 10:20 PM on April 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 10:20 PM on April 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
Loyalty Day has been happening for decades thanks to the Red Scare
The Manchurian President proclaiming Loyalty Day in opposition to the threat of communism when his entire party won office through collusion with Russia intelligence is....something.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:31 PM on April 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
The Manchurian President proclaiming Loyalty Day in opposition to the threat of communism when his entire party won office through collusion with Russia intelligence is....something.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:31 PM on April 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
The Manchurian President proclaiming Loyalty Day in opposition to the threat of communism when his entire party won office through collusion with Russia intelligence is....something.
Russia hasn't been communist for over a quarter of a century though.
posted by Talez at 10:33 PM on April 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
Russia hasn't been communist for over a quarter of a century though.
posted by Talez at 10:33 PM on April 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
True, and the US has been an oligarchy for at least as long. If it was ever anything else.
It's still striking that our oligarchy is still clinging to the trappings of opposition to their more overt and brutal oligarchy while the head of our government attempts to emulate and reproduce the most brutal parts, to the cheers of 46% of the nation and 100% of the institutional party that at one time defined itself in opposition to the underlying philosophy that birthed the ostensible opposition superpower.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:02 PM on April 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's still striking that our oligarchy is still clinging to the trappings of opposition to their more overt and brutal oligarchy while the head of our government attempts to emulate and reproduce the most brutal parts, to the cheers of 46% of the nation and 100% of the institutional party that at one time defined itself in opposition to the underlying philosophy that birthed the ostensible opposition superpower.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:02 PM on April 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
You know, if the White House Press Corps had taken my advice to postpone their dinner once Trump announced his rally for the same day, they would have been able to cap on Trump for having his party on the 25th Anniversary of Rodney King's beating by the LAPD. But no, it's just the battle of the dinners.
posted by rhizome at 11:13 PM on April 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 11:13 PM on April 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
Worst of all, he's going to say he tried to follow his agenda through legit means, but those horrible courts, et al., forced him to rely on other means.
posted by allthinky at 5:47 AM on April 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by allthinky at 5:47 AM on April 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
From yesterday's AM Joy, with MSNBC anchor Stephanie Ruhle, Democratic strategist Karine Jean-Pierre and comedian Judy Gold:
Ivanka watches father butcher women’s rights
Ivanka Trump claims that supporting women is her central issue, but Joy Reid and her guests highlight her silence as her father dismantles programs benefiting women.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:05 AM on April 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
Ivanka watches father butcher women’s rights
Ivanka Trump claims that supporting women is her central issue, but Joy Reid and her guests highlight her silence as her father dismantles programs benefiting women.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:05 AM on April 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
Trump’s Alternative Reality Rally: In a less surreal time, the president of the United States would be at the dinner, which supports the White House Correspondents’ Association. He would endure a stand-up routine at his expense, and then he would deliver his own comedic monologue. Trump has attended this affair in the past — most memorably in 2011, when Barack Obama, having just released his birth certificate following a months-long campaign by Trump to imply that he was not born in America and thus was not a legitimate president, roasted him, a night some say was the impetus for his 2016 campaign.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:05 AM on April 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:05 AM on April 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
Nothing like holding a rally full of white supremacists in the middle of a city that's 75% minority. I'm guessing that there weren't too many actual residents of Harrisburg in attendance.
posted by octothorpe at 7:22 AM on April 30, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 7:22 AM on April 30, 2017 [10 favorites]
Donald Trump on if he could start nuclear war with North Korea: 'I don't know. I mean, we'll see': In an interview with CBS' “Face the Nation,” - to be aired on Sunday - Mr Trump said he won't be happy if North Korea conducts a nuclear test and that he believes Chinese President Xi Jinping won't be happy, either.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:52 AM on April 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:52 AM on April 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
FULL TRANSCRIPT: President Donald Trump's interview with "Face the Nation"
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:55 AM on April 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:55 AM on April 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
Where the hell does he get off calling the Dems obstructionist - and then use the SCOTUS appointment as his example??
posted by robstercraw at 7:59 AM on April 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by robstercraw at 7:59 AM on April 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
Another interview with a major news outlet. If this were a drinking game we'd all be dead.
posted by notyou at 7:59 AM on April 30, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by notyou at 7:59 AM on April 30, 2017 [11 favorites]
> "It is the most reasonable thing in the world to speculate about someone's relationship based on how they interact with their SO in view of other people."
It's not like I can stop you and it's not a hill I want to die on or anything, but this kind of speculation actually seems pretty weird and creepy to me.
posted by kyrademon at 8:04 AM on April 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's not like I can stop you and it's not a hill I want to die on or anything, but this kind of speculation actually seems pretty weird and creepy to me.
posted by kyrademon at 8:04 AM on April 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
Me: OK, you've spent a week or two disengaged from politics, maybe it's time to catch up.
Donald Trump on if he could start nuclear war with North Korea: 'I don't know. I mean, we'll see'
Me: [backs slowly into bushes and disappears]
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:04 AM on April 30, 2017 [56 favorites]
Donald Trump on if he could start nuclear war with North Korea: 'I don't know. I mean, we'll see'
Me: [backs slowly into bushes and disappears]
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:04 AM on April 30, 2017 [56 favorites]
God, the whole exchange is too long to excerpt, but this bit here:
posted by murphy slaw at 8:33 AM on April 30, 2017 [72 favorites]
JOHN DICKERSON: Let me ask you about health care -- Tucker Carlson interviewed you about six weeks ago when you were in the middle of health care negotiations. And you agreed with him that the health care bill wasn't going to help your supporters. That those who lived in rural areas, the older, were going to get hurt by that bill. And you told him--Dude has not read the bill, has no idea what is in it, and has not "mandated" anything.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Excuse me, the health care bill is going to help my supporters.
JOHN DICKERSON: Well, hold on. Let me just finish the question, if I may, sir--
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Otherwise, I'm not going to sign it. I'm not going to do it.
JOHN DICKERSON: Well, this is why I wanted to ask you. You said to Tucker, "We will take care of our people, or I am not signing it." You said you were going to negotiate.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Well, that's what I just said.
JOHN DICKERSON: So tell me what in the bill you've been negotiating to get--
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: But let me--
JOHN DICKERSON: --in that helps your supporters. I'm just trying to get the details of how your people--
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Let me just tell you.
JOHN DICKERSON: --will be helped.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Pre-existing conditions are in the bill. And I just watched another network than yours, and they were saying, "Pre-existing is not covered." Pre-existing conditions are in the bill. And I mandate it. I said, "Has to be."
JOHN DICKERSON: So--
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: We have, we're going to have lower premiums. And before you start there, let me just tell you something. Obamacare is dead. Obamacare right now, all the insurance companies are fleeing. Places like Tennessee have already lost half of their state with the insurance companies. They're all going. Obamacare, John, is dead. Okay, because we're being -- we're being compared to Obamacare. Just, so. Obamacare doesn't work--
JOHN DICKERSON: I just want to compare you to your own.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: One thing. No, no, it's important. I've got to compare it.
JOHN DICKERSON: No, no, but I want--
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: But you were saying about Obamacare.
JOHN DICKERSON: No, but I'm not. I'm asking what--
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: With Obamacare--
JOHN DICKERSON: --you're going to do.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: --the premiums are too high. The deductibles are through the roof, so you never get to use it. But more importantly, it's dead.
JOHN DICKERSON: So but in the bill, as it was analyzed, there were two problems. One, and you talked about this with Congressman Robert Aderholt, who brought you the example of the 64-year-old who under Obamacare the premiums--
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: But that was a long time ago, John.
JOHN DICKERSON: But has that been fixed?
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Totally fixed.
JOHN DICKERSON: How?
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: How? We've made many changes to the bill. You know, this bill is--
posted by murphy slaw at 8:33 AM on April 30, 2017 [72 favorites]
Dude does not read. Or listen.
posted by Artw at 8:39 AM on April 30, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:39 AM on April 30, 2017 [22 favorites]
"We'll see" about nuclear freaking war. So that's today's answer to my first thought every morning: "What fresh hell is this?"
posted by thebrokedown at 8:48 AM on April 30, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by thebrokedown at 8:48 AM on April 30, 2017 [10 favorites]
I mean, at least when he says "we'll see" you know he has no real plans or knowledge of the situation. "At least".
posted by Artw at 9:01 AM on April 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:01 AM on April 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
Where the hell does he get off calling the Dems obstructionist - and then use the SCOTUS appointment as his example??
>>"Dude has not read the bill, has no idea what is in it, and has not "mandated" anything."
Just as there are Trump's Mirror, and Trump's Razor, there is MetaFilter's Headdesk.
MetaFilter's Headdesk (a.k.a. MeFi's Own Don Music) is the attempt to use logic or reason in analyzing this president's statements. There is no point to it, it is doomed to fail, the man is legally and medically unfit to "serve" as President.
Now let's do this Article 25 thing and get back to the culture wars proper.
posted by petebest at 9:02 AM on April 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
>>"Dude has not read the bill, has no idea what is in it, and has not "mandated" anything."
Just as there are Trump's Mirror, and Trump's Razor, there is MetaFilter's Headdesk.
MetaFilter's Headdesk (a.k.a. MeFi's Own Don Music) is the attempt to use logic or reason in analyzing this president's statements. There is no point to it, it is doomed to fail, the man is legally and medically unfit to "serve" as President.
Now let's do this Article 25 thing and get back to the culture wars proper.
posted by petebest at 9:02 AM on April 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
I honestly don't know what the point is anymore in news that contains "the president says." Trump says all kinds of stuff. He promises things that are impossible, demonstrably untrue in actual legislation, or things that are contradictory with stuff he said not long ago - sometimes even in the last day. Perhaps the press cannot stop reporting on the claims of a person in power, no matter how empty, but why should any of the rest of us pay attention? It's not spin or bluster we need to hold someone accountable on. It's impossible to hold someone accountable when their statements all add up to covering every possible condition.
posted by phearlez at 9:04 AM on April 30, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by phearlez at 9:04 AM on April 30, 2017 [12 favorites]
The Secret Service has, similarly, paid $64,000 for “elevator services” in Trump Tower. This is a fairly normal kind of expense for the agency, paying a building money to defray the inconvenience of taking elevators offline so they can be inspected for security purposes. But, again, there is nothing normal about the president personally profiting from the security.
I appreciate the nuance of this situation, and that arguably it's not even that crazy a situation.
BUT: this is a perfect issue for a political hit ad. Trump (and other Republicans) murdered Hillary Clinton on ads where they ignored nuance and went for the gut hit. Hell, people are doing it to Obama now for his paid speech. Nothing actually wrong with it, common practice and an unfair standard sure, but the "optics" are bad.
It's fine to know intellectually that it might be a cheap shot to use something like this against Trump. But goddmannit, USE IT ANYWAY. Trump charging the Secret Service to ride his friggin' elevators? That is political attack GOLD.
Yeah, he can even explain the situation away, sort of. Every second he does that he's losing. Dems gotta get serious with stuff like this.
posted by msalt at 9:05 AM on April 30, 2017 [31 favorites]
I appreciate the nuance of this situation, and that arguably it's not even that crazy a situation.
BUT: this is a perfect issue for a political hit ad. Trump (and other Republicans) murdered Hillary Clinton on ads where they ignored nuance and went for the gut hit. Hell, people are doing it to Obama now for his paid speech. Nothing actually wrong with it, common practice and an unfair standard sure, but the "optics" are bad.
It's fine to know intellectually that it might be a cheap shot to use something like this against Trump. But goddmannit, USE IT ANYWAY. Trump charging the Secret Service to ride his friggin' elevators? That is political attack GOLD.
Yeah, he can even explain the situation away, sort of. Every second he does that he's losing. Dems gotta get serious with stuff like this.
posted by msalt at 9:05 AM on April 30, 2017 [31 favorites]
While the real WH correspondents dinner and the alternate reality Samantha Bee version deserve their own FPP, from the latter, Sam brought back West Wing's CJ to tell it like it is.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 9:10 AM on April 30, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 9:10 AM on April 30, 2017 [13 favorites]
It's fine to know intellectually that it might be a cheap shot to use something like this against Trump. But goddmannit, USE IT ANYWAY. Trump charging the Secret Service to ride his friggin' elevators? That is political attack GOLD.
And people are going to have the CTJ moment on that one in contrast to Trump admitting to sexual assault, his promotion of racism, nationalist, fascism, his ignorance of the job, his disdain of the constitution and its system of checks and balances?
The guy is reality TV Reagan. People either abhor him or think he's bigger than Jesus. His support among Rs has barely nudged. The only hope we have is to twist every arm and convince, cajole, drag everyone to the left of Joe Manchin out to vote in 2018 and 2020.
posted by Talez at 9:15 AM on April 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
And people are going to have the CTJ moment on that one in contrast to Trump admitting to sexual assault, his promotion of racism, nationalist, fascism, his ignorance of the job, his disdain of the constitution and its system of checks and balances?
The guy is reality TV Reagan. People either abhor him or think he's bigger than Jesus. His support among Rs has barely nudged. The only hope we have is to twist every arm and convince, cajole, drag everyone to the left of Joe Manchin out to vote in 2018 and 2020.
posted by Talez at 9:15 AM on April 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
Sam brought back West Wing's CJ to tell it like it is
Man, that made me cry. I guess I need a break from all this.
posted by mumimor at 9:23 AM on April 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
Man, that made me cry. I guess I need a break from all this.
posted by mumimor at 9:23 AM on April 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
Trump: Pre-existing conditions are in the bill. And I mandate it. I said, "Has to be."
There is an important distinction here that he is eliding -- not because he is clever, but simply because he is too ignorant to understand.
Coverage of pre-existing conditions is meaningless alone without "community rating." Community rating means that everyone of the same age pays the same premium, regardless of their health status.
The new Republican bill eliminates community rating. This means that, sure, an insurance company will cover your pre-existing condition, but they can charge you a $5000 a month premium. Coverage of pre-existing conditions without community rating is worthless. But Trump gets his "pre-existing condition" talking point.
posted by JackFlash at 9:23 AM on April 30, 2017 [49 favorites]
There is an important distinction here that he is eliding -- not because he is clever, but simply because he is too ignorant to understand.
Coverage of pre-existing conditions is meaningless alone without "community rating." Community rating means that everyone of the same age pays the same premium, regardless of their health status.
The new Republican bill eliminates community rating. This means that, sure, an insurance company will cover your pre-existing condition, but they can charge you a $5000 a month premium. Coverage of pre-existing conditions without community rating is worthless. But Trump gets his "pre-existing condition" talking point.
posted by JackFlash at 9:23 AM on April 30, 2017 [49 favorites]
The transcript excerpted above is an indicator of how normalized some aspects of this not-normal presidency have become. Dickerson is trying to pin down Trump on whether the proposed bill will hurt his supporters. Never, anywhere in the interview, is there any question about whether it would be a bad thing if this bill hurts people who live in blue states or who do not support Trump.
posted by compartment at 9:27 AM on April 30, 2017 [56 favorites]
posted by compartment at 9:27 AM on April 30, 2017 [56 favorites]
I honestly don't know what the point is anymore in news that contains "the president says." Trump says all kinds of stuff. He promises things that are impossible, demonstrably untrue in actual legislation, or things that are contradictory
It's the Trump Uncertainty Principle in action. We can either know his position on an issue or the amount of bullshit spewed on an issue, but not both. Now, I suspect he has no positions, so all we are left with is an infinite amount of bullshit.
posted by nubs at 9:30 AM on April 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's the Trump Uncertainty Principle in action. We can either know his position on an issue or the amount of bullshit spewed on an issue, but not both. Now, I suspect he has no positions, so all we are left with is an infinite amount of bullshit.
posted by nubs at 9:30 AM on April 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
Trump: Obamacare is dead. Obamacare right now, all the insurance companies are fleeing. Places like Tennessee have already lost half of their state with the insurance companies. They're all going. Obamacare, John, is dead.
What many people don't understand is that Obamacare has nothing to do with the insurance market in each state. Obamacare only provides the framework for the exchange to sell the plans. Which plans are on the exchange, which insurance companies participate, what benefits and deductibles they provide, and what premiums they charge are entirely in the hands of your state insurance commissioner and other state officials. The federal government has nothing to do with the plans offered in your state.
If you live in a state with terrible insurance choices like Tennessee, it is because your state officials intentionally designed it that way. If your state officials want Obamacare to fail, they can create those conditions and there is nothing the Feds can do about it. That isn't a failure of Obamacare. That is a failure of your state elected officials.
Obamacare is doing great in the Blue states that have worked to make Obamacare a success. If you are in a Red state with poor insurance choices, well, sucks to be you, but it isn't the fault of Obamacare.
posted by JackFlash at 9:41 AM on April 30, 2017 [68 favorites]
What many people don't understand is that Obamacare has nothing to do with the insurance market in each state. Obamacare only provides the framework for the exchange to sell the plans. Which plans are on the exchange, which insurance companies participate, what benefits and deductibles they provide, and what premiums they charge are entirely in the hands of your state insurance commissioner and other state officials. The federal government has nothing to do with the plans offered in your state.
If you live in a state with terrible insurance choices like Tennessee, it is because your state officials intentionally designed it that way. If your state officials want Obamacare to fail, they can create those conditions and there is nothing the Feds can do about it. That isn't a failure of Obamacare. That is a failure of your state elected officials.
Obamacare is doing great in the Blue states that have worked to make Obamacare a success. If you are in a Red state with poor insurance choices, well, sucks to be you, but it isn't the fault of Obamacare.
posted by JackFlash at 9:41 AM on April 30, 2017 [68 favorites]
phearlez: Perhaps the press cannot stop reporting on the claims of a person in power, no matter how empty, but why should any of the rest of us pay attention?
Because nukes.
posted by bluecore at 9:42 AM on April 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
Because nukes.
posted by bluecore at 9:42 AM on April 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
and you talked about this with Congressman Robert Aderholt,
In a better timeline, Trump has been talking to Dennis Aderholt, Oleg hands the dossier and pee tape over to Stan, and Elizabeth and Phillip help the Trump Boys with their suitcases.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:14 AM on April 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
In a better timeline, Trump has been talking to Dennis Aderholt, Oleg hands the dossier and pee tape over to Stan, and Elizabeth and Phillip help the Trump Boys with their suitcases.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:14 AM on April 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
This is among the clearest, quickest demonstrations I've seen of the Democrat refusal to accept that Obamacare is an incredibly bad way to get citizens healthcare.
Compared to what existed before Obamacare? I'm assuming that you are one of those people who has been privileged to get your insurance through your employer your whole life. Obamacare is directed toward people who didn't have that privilege and it is a vast improvement over the previous individual insurance market.
As has been explained many times, Joe Lieberman held the 60th vote and refused to support any sort of public option for insurance.
posted by JackFlash at 10:35 AM on April 30, 2017 [46 favorites]
Compared to what existed before Obamacare? I'm assuming that you are one of those people who has been privileged to get your insurance through your employer your whole life. Obamacare is directed toward people who didn't have that privilege and it is a vast improvement over the previous individual insurance market.
As has been explained many times, Joe Lieberman held the 60th vote and refused to support any sort of public option for insurance.
posted by JackFlash at 10:35 AM on April 30, 2017 [46 favorites]
This is among the clearest, quickest demonstrations I've seen of the Democrat refusal to accept that Obamacare is an incredibly bad way to get citizens healthcare.
it's an incredibly republican way to get people healthcare, but they wouldn't touch it because it had obama cooties and now all they can offer is something much worse.
it's a pretty great way to corner republicans into looking like bigger assholes than usual, and it's better than the status quo ante, but it's much more of a political victory than a policy one.
posted by murphy slaw at 10:36 AM on April 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
it's an incredibly republican way to get people healthcare, but they wouldn't touch it because it had obama cooties and now all they can offer is something much worse.
it's a pretty great way to corner republicans into looking like bigger assholes than usual, and it's better than the status quo ante, but it's much more of a political victory than a policy one.
posted by murphy slaw at 10:36 AM on April 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
The best defense I can muster of that nonsense is that when the law was under debate everybody underestimated how entrenched the GOP opposition to all things Democrats like would become -- for instance, there was a genuine expectation that the federal exchange would barely matter because no state would dare opt out for fear of the backlash from denying its own citizens cheap healthcare out of spite. Whoops!
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:36 AM on April 30, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:36 AM on April 30, 2017 [15 favorites]
The point to the interviews is to get this guy on the record. If they manage to get zombie health care passed, we now have video of the President saying that he made sure "pre-existing conditions" are in the bill. The attack ads in 2020 will have those soundbites with the reality of TrumpCare. He won't be able to deny that he didn't know what was in the bill and he was just a helpless bystander.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:36 AM on April 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:36 AM on April 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
These are the two main options in this wacky poo-eating world of ours
Oh for crying out loud. After everything that's happened, you still don't see that those really ARE the two options, and that people who held out for no poo are partially responsible for us having to eat this poo with glass in it now? Thanks a lot for the glass!
It's worth working toward a better world, where there are better options on the menu. But you do that work at the local level and the grass roots and in the primaries. At the national level right now, where you have to take into account that you are sharing power with Republicans, I am HAPPY when I can get poo without glass in it. And I am ANGERY at everyone who put the glass in my poo right now, including the people who claim that it makes no difference whether poo had glass in it or not because poo is poo. It makes a big difference to me!
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:59 AM on April 30, 2017 [25 favorites]
Oh for crying out loud. After everything that's happened, you still don't see that those really ARE the two options, and that people who held out for no poo are partially responsible for us having to eat this poo with glass in it now? Thanks a lot for the glass!
It's worth working toward a better world, where there are better options on the menu. But you do that work at the local level and the grass roots and in the primaries. At the national level right now, where you have to take into account that you are sharing power with Republicans, I am HAPPY when I can get poo without glass in it. And I am ANGERY at everyone who put the glass in my poo right now, including the people who claim that it makes no difference whether poo had glass in it or not because poo is poo. It makes a big difference to me!
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:59 AM on April 30, 2017 [25 favorites]
"We'll see" is how I've approached every day since Jan 20th. The recent economic numbers are IMO just the beginning of a full scale economic implosion. I hope I'm wrong but I guess "we'll see."
posted by photoslob at 11:07 AM on April 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by photoslob at 11:07 AM on April 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
*goes on hunger strike*
posted by pyramid termite at 11:08 AM on April 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 11:08 AM on April 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
One of the most Democratic things about Obamacare is that was built with the assumption that Republicans wouldn't sabotage it out of spite, yes. Their general assumption that Republicans are alright people who just happen to have a different point of view is cute but not borne out by reality and absolutely has to be dropped.
posted by Artw at 11:24 AM on April 30, 2017 [48 favorites]
posted by Artw at 11:24 AM on April 30, 2017 [48 favorites]
kayfabe. this is a particularly insightful piece by tom sullivan over at digby. illustrates why the left needs to abandon *understanding* and reaching out to trumpies. their psychology is calcified and more intractable than 'racism' and 'economic insecurity'. this read is worth your time.
posted by j_curiouser at 11:26 AM on April 30, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by j_curiouser at 11:26 AM on April 30, 2017 [14 favorites]
Yeah, I can forgive that fallacy being baked into the ACA because it was the first major, partisan policy Dems were able to put in place since the Clinton years, but standing by it now after two Obama terms full of evidence to the contrary is indefensible.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:29 AM on April 30, 2017
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:29 AM on April 30, 2017
it's a pretty great way to corner republicans into looking like bigger assholes than usual, and it's better than the status quo ante, but it's much more of a political victory than a policy one.
Yeah! Fuck incremental policy improvements! Who cares about the millions of people the law has helped? We gotta think of Obamacare as a purely cynical political exercise because god forbid we didn't do a perfect job in a bad situation!
posted by Talez at 11:49 AM on April 30, 2017 [28 favorites]
Yeah! Fuck incremental policy improvements! Who cares about the millions of people the law has helped? We gotta think of Obamacare as a purely cynical political exercise because god forbid we didn't do a perfect job in a bad situation!
posted by Talez at 11:49 AM on April 30, 2017 [28 favorites]
> > Trump charging the Secret Service to ride his friggin' elevators? That is political attack GOLD.
> And people are going to have the CTJ moment on that one in contrast to Trump admitting to sexual assault, his promotion of racism, nationalist, fascism, his ignorance of the job, his disdain of the constitution and its system of checks and balances?
Yeah, if anything grifting the government is practically aspirational for Trump's base.
posted by en forme de poire at 11:49 AM on April 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
> And people are going to have the CTJ moment on that one in contrast to Trump admitting to sexual assault, his promotion of racism, nationalist, fascism, his ignorance of the job, his disdain of the constitution and its system of checks and balances?
Yeah, if anything grifting the government is practically aspirational for Trump's base.
posted by en forme de poire at 11:49 AM on April 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
is there a nobel prize for petty revenge? because i swear trump is gunning for it:
Buenos Aires Herald: Trump vetoes Carter tribute
Buenos Aires Herald: Trump vetoes Carter tribute
The Mauricio Macri administration reverted a decision to award former US president Jimmy Carter the Order of the Liberator General San Martín — the maximum distinction that the country can give to a foreign personality —, under the pressure from US President Donald Trump’s administration, CNN web site reported this week.posted by murphy slaw at 11:57 AM on April 30, 2017 [42 favorites]
The official tribute, which had already been approved by the foreign ministry and was published in the Official Gazette, was cancelled after receiving a specific request by the US government, which would have suggested it would be better to delay it. Carter was to be given the award for his work in promoting human rights during Argentina’s last military dictatorship.
After being informed about the decision, the foreign ministry had again requested that President Macri give the award in spite of the rejection by Trump’s government since it had been made official, according to an anonymous foreign ministry official consulted by CNN’s David Cox.
@kylegriffin1: Q: Is POTUS considering a constitutional amendment to change press laws?
PRIEBUS: "I think it's something that we've looked at."
It's highly concerning to me that these folks have figured out precisely one trick that seems to be working for them: publicly embrace authoritarian strongmen and policies so they can deliver the promised liberal tears to their supporters.
posted by zachlipton at 12:19 PM on April 30, 2017 [21 favorites]
PRIEBUS: "I think it's something that we've looked at."
It's highly concerning to me that these folks have figured out precisely one trick that seems to be working for them: publicly embrace authoritarian strongmen and policies so they can deliver the promised liberal tears to their supporters.
posted by zachlipton at 12:19 PM on April 30, 2017 [21 favorites]
Trump vetoes Carter tribute
I know I should be over it by now but holy crow is Trump a petty SOB.
posted by Lyme Drop at 1:04 PM on April 30, 2017 [40 favorites]
I know I should be over it by now but holy crow is Trump a petty SOB.
posted by Lyme Drop at 1:04 PM on April 30, 2017 [40 favorites]
Josh Marshall thinks through Priebus' 1st-amendment comments and correctly finds them to be outrageous.
posted by Lyme Drop at 1:21 PM on April 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Lyme Drop at 1:21 PM on April 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
Dr Gorka v Nazi out of the WH (but some lucky agency's going to get him...)
posted by Devonian at 1:44 PM on April 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 1:44 PM on April 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
With regard to the Duterte invitation:
posted by zachlipton at 1:59 PM on April 30, 2017 [12 favorites]
Now, administration officials are bracing for an avalanche of criticism from human rights groups. Two officials said they expected the State Department and the National Security Council, both of which were caught off guard by the invitation, to raise objections internally.He also spent 4.5 hours at another one of his golf clubs today. The White House has no comment on whether he played golf.
The White House disclosed the news on a day when Mr. Trump whipped up ardent backers at a campaign-style rally in Harrisburg, Pa. The timing of the announcement — after a speech that was an angry, grievance-filled jeremiad — encapsulated this president after 100 days in office: still ready to say and do things that leave people, even on his staff, slack-jawed.
posted by zachlipton at 1:59 PM on April 30, 2017 [12 favorites]
Another interesting article for the to-read pile:
A Dangerous New Americanism?
A Dangerous New Americanism?
All of these factors are now at play in the consideration of American identity, and that should worry everyone. “American” is an identity collective, like any other. Identifying as part of a collective is not inherently bad. In many ways, it’s normal and healthy. People who live in communities seek definition, whether as a neighborhood or as a nation. But when the health of the in-group can only be obtained at the expense of an out-group, identity takes on sinister and destructive overtones.posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 2:18 PM on April 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
Dr Gorka v Nazi out of the WH (but some lucky agency's going to get him...)
Is there another empty office at the Selective Service agency?
posted by TWinbrook8 at 2:39 PM on April 30, 2017
Is there another empty office at the Selective Service agency?
posted by TWinbrook8 at 2:39 PM on April 30, 2017
If your state officials want Obamacare to fail, they can create those conditions and there is nothing the Feds can do about it. That isn't a failure of Obamacare. That is a failure of your state elected officials.
I agree and wish it could become common knowledge, but I can't think of any way to facilitate that.
posted by petebest at 2:46 PM on April 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
I agree and wish it could become common knowledge, but I can't think of any way to facilitate that.
posted by petebest at 2:46 PM on April 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
Holy crap, murphy slaw. The closest I could see to a fig leaf of a justification was
the decision not to give Carter an official award was to “avoid conflicts” and so they can speak about issues of mutual interest shared between Trump’s and Macri’s administration.
It's also described as a "delay" which is similarly bereft of any elaboration.
So I guess I can see some more reasonable interpretation, like "oh it was really just delayed for an hour because of a scheduling issue" -- but I actually think it's justified to infer the foulest intent possible, because this level of opaque bullshittery and disdain for public disclosure is just as foul.
posted by bjrubble at 3:01 PM on April 30, 2017
the decision not to give Carter an official award was to “avoid conflicts” and so they can speak about issues of mutual interest shared between Trump’s and Macri’s administration.
It's also described as a "delay" which is similarly bereft of any elaboration.
So I guess I can see some more reasonable interpretation, like "oh it was really just delayed for an hour because of a scheduling issue" -- but I actually think it's justified to infer the foulest intent possible, because this level of opaque bullshittery and disdain for public disclosure is just as foul.
posted by bjrubble at 3:01 PM on April 30, 2017
From the kayfabe article linked above:
Although the etymology of the word is a matter of debate, for at least 50 years “kayfabe” has referred to the unspoken contract between wrestlers and spectators: We’ll present you something clearly fake under the insistence that it’s real, and you will experience genuine emotion. Neither party acknowledges the bargain, or else the magic is ruined.
Do corporate news executives get to vote? Because 100 days is enough time to call out the bullshit and ruin this dark-ass fucking magic. Or else let's understand they are complicit.
What, Jon Stewart is the only person capable of rhetorically snapping Sean Spicer's neck? Bullshit WH press corps, we'd better see you giving Spicey the business end of a press room full of folding chairs, starting yesterday, seriously. Democracy dies in darkness - fuuck. DOES THIS LOOK LIKE LIGHT TO YOU?!
"Can someone check me on this, am I losing my mind?" - David St. Hubbins
posted by petebest at 3:03 PM on April 30, 2017 [14 favorites]
Although the etymology of the word is a matter of debate, for at least 50 years “kayfabe” has referred to the unspoken contract between wrestlers and spectators: We’ll present you something clearly fake under the insistence that it’s real, and you will experience genuine emotion. Neither party acknowledges the bargain, or else the magic is ruined.
Do corporate news executives get to vote? Because 100 days is enough time to call out the bullshit and ruin this dark-ass fucking magic. Or else let's understand they are complicit.
What, Jon Stewart is the only person capable of rhetorically snapping Sean Spicer's neck? Bullshit WH press corps, we'd better see you giving Spicey the business end of a press room full of folding chairs, starting yesterday, seriously. Democracy dies in darkness - fuuck. DOES THIS LOOK LIKE LIGHT TO YOU?!
"Can someone check me on this, am I losing my mind?" - David St. Hubbins
posted by petebest at 3:03 PM on April 30, 2017 [14 favorites]
What if we gave the president TEN pinocchios. Then he'd HAVE to resign
posted by theodolite at 3:09 PM on April 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 3:09 PM on April 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
Washington Examiner: The source said Gorka's only known duties included speaking on television about counterterrism, as well as "giving White House tours and peeling out in his Mustang,"
Sebastian Gorka, walking midlife crisis only in the White House. And with Nazis.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:19 PM on April 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
Sebastian Gorka, walking midlife crisis only in the White House. And with Nazis.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:19 PM on April 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
Reminder: Gorka is the one who proclaimed "The alpha males are back" (directing a Korean tour group past the Rose Garden).
posted by PenDevil at 3:24 PM on April 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by PenDevil at 3:24 PM on April 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
So is it a big deal because they mean it? Or is it not a big deal because (as has been noted upthread) it's also a cynical ploy to produce outrage in the "right people"? Do we keep pointing out how deeply wrong what the White House is saying is, or by doing so are we feeding the trolls?
Option A: Protest loudly, preventing the normalization of authoritarianism, causing various Twitter users with mostly frog and egg avatars to proclaim "LOL liberal tears."
Option B: Don't protest, thereby allowing the normalization and possible implementation of authoritarian ideas. Right-wing Twitter trolls continue to proclaim "LOL liberal tears" anyway.
Never forget that the president does not respect the rule of law, he does not respect democratic norms, he does not respect democratic institutions, and he does not respect logic, reason, science, self-reflection, or even the meaning of words. He may or may not respect himself, but he respects his self-interests.
Never forget that the president of the United States has divorced himself from reality. He believes, without any evidentiary basis, that Obama personally ordered a wiretap on Trump Tower. He believes that climate change is Chinese hoax. He believes that he knows more than generals who have spent their entire working life learning how to wage war effectively, and he believes that he knows more than scientists who have spent their entire careers devoted to understanding their respective fields of study.
After standing on a stage and requesting that the intelligence services of a foreign government release his opponent's stolen emails, he now denies any election meddling by the same foreign government whose assistance he personally and publicly requested.
The mindset of the current president of the United States is not grounded in reality. Do not ever forget this.
Here's why this is important: It makes it impossible to know with certainty whether he intends his or his surrogates' statements seriously or as a means of trolling his opponents. At some point, it no longer matters. It's like "ironic" racism. Regardless of the speaker's intent, it advances the values embodied by the literal meaning of the statement.
When the former RNC chairman and the current White House chief of staff says that the Republican Party's standard bearer has considered amending the Constitution to curtail freedom of the press, take it seriously. Left unopposed, the mere statement alone advances authoritarian values.
Monday morning, get on the phone, call your members of Congress, and tell them that their most important job from now through impeachment or resignation is to oppose Trump. Call, write, protest. Make as much noise as you can for as long as is needed.
posted by compartment at 3:30 PM on April 30, 2017 [79 favorites]
Option A: Protest loudly, preventing the normalization of authoritarianism, causing various Twitter users with mostly frog and egg avatars to proclaim "LOL liberal tears."
Option B: Don't protest, thereby allowing the normalization and possible implementation of authoritarian ideas. Right-wing Twitter trolls continue to proclaim "LOL liberal tears" anyway.
Never forget that the president does not respect the rule of law, he does not respect democratic norms, he does not respect democratic institutions, and he does not respect logic, reason, science, self-reflection, or even the meaning of words. He may or may not respect himself, but he respects his self-interests.
Never forget that the president of the United States has divorced himself from reality. He believes, without any evidentiary basis, that Obama personally ordered a wiretap on Trump Tower. He believes that climate change is Chinese hoax. He believes that he knows more than generals who have spent their entire working life learning how to wage war effectively, and he believes that he knows more than scientists who have spent their entire careers devoted to understanding their respective fields of study.
After standing on a stage and requesting that the intelligence services of a foreign government release his opponent's stolen emails, he now denies any election meddling by the same foreign government whose assistance he personally and publicly requested.
The mindset of the current president of the United States is not grounded in reality. Do not ever forget this.
Here's why this is important: It makes it impossible to know with certainty whether he intends his or his surrogates' statements seriously or as a means of trolling his opponents. At some point, it no longer matters. It's like "ironic" racism. Regardless of the speaker's intent, it advances the values embodied by the literal meaning of the statement.
When the former RNC chairman and the current White House chief of staff says that the Republican Party's standard bearer has considered amending the Constitution to curtail freedom of the press, take it seriously. Left unopposed, the mere statement alone advances authoritarian values.
Monday morning, get on the phone, call your members of Congress, and tell them that their most important job from now through impeachment or resignation is to oppose Trump. Call, write, protest. Make as much noise as you can for as long as is needed.
posted by compartment at 3:30 PM on April 30, 2017 [79 favorites]
Politico: Congressional leaders near agreement on spending deal
posted by zachlipton at 4:03 PM on April 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
Congressional leaders were near an agreement Sunday on a massive spending deal that would deliver both parties funding for key priorities, according to four congressional aides from both political parties.There's still a hold-up over Medicaid funds for Puerto Rico, among other issues. It also bears pretty much no resemblance to Trump's budget request.
If clinched, the deal would deliver President Donald Trump billions in new defense spending to combat terrorism and $1.5 billion for enhanced border security, though it would deny him any money for a physical border wall, the sources said. It would fund the government through September and contain key bipartisan priorities: $2 billion in new funds for the National Institutes of Health and former President Barack Obama's cancer moonshot, as well as a long-term extension of miners' health insurance that expires on Friday.
posted by zachlipton at 4:03 PM on April 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
Amazingly, no shots were fired in Pikeville, KY, where three armed groups converged on Saturday (Guardian).
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:37 PM on April 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:37 PM on April 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
Mod note: Q: Is POTUS considering a constitutional amendment to change press laws?
PRIEBUS:"I think it's something that we've looked at." Of course not. The president swore to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and the First Amendment protects some of most essential rights.
fake
posted by kirkaracha (staff) at 4:41 PM on April 30, 2017 [14 favorites]
PRIEBUS:
fake
posted by kirkaracha (staff) at 4:41 PM on April 30, 2017 [14 favorites]
I'm getting pretty nervous about this terrible ACA replacement bill. Can I interrupt our regularly scheduled programming to ask everyone to call and leave a message on your congressional reps' voicemails? High-risk pools were a nightmare in the past, and there's no reason to believe they'd be better this time.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:53 PM on April 30, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:53 PM on April 30, 2017 [16 favorites]
Johnny Wallflower, that article is insane. They brought a literal fasces! Like what the actual fuck?
posted by corb at 4:56 PM on April 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by corb at 4:56 PM on April 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
No sense of irony would be my guess.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:07 PM on April 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:07 PM on April 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
compartment, I used the last few paragraphs of your excellent comment in faxes and tweets to my reps. Thanks.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:09 PM on April 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:09 PM on April 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
A few minutes later, more than 100 neo-Nazis marched into town (...) Asked why the group was late, one leader said something about car trouble.
no one wanted to sit in the back seat?
posted by pyramid termite at 5:10 PM on April 30, 2017
no one wanted to sit in the back seat?
posted by pyramid termite at 5:10 PM on April 30, 2017
In between speeches, the neo-Nazis waved flags, saluted and chanted the names of their leaders.
Don't be coy, were they chanting "Trump, Trump, Trump"?
posted by peeedro at 5:15 PM on April 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
Don't be coy, were they chanting "Trump, Trump, Trump"?
posted by peeedro at 5:15 PM on April 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
Dem candidate recruitment continues to soar:
In a major opportunity for a House pickup, Ileana Ros-Lehtinen [FL-27] will not be running again. This seat went for HRC by 20 points; it should move from Likely GOP to Leans Dem.
===
Although I share the disappointment over KS-04, and the possibility of not picking up GA-06 and MT-AL, it's important to remember that even over-performing in a loss has the impacts we see above. More Dems are encouraged to run, GOP potential candidates stay out, GOP borderline incumbents decide to pursue other interests.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:10 PM on April 30, 2017 [34 favorites]
Already 408 Democrats have thrown their hats into the ring [for House seats], a 58 percent increase over the 259 who had declared by this point in the run-up to the 2014 midterms.===
A spokesperson for the [DCCC] told VICE News that the committee is in serious talks with more than 300 prospective candidates in about 70 Republican-held and open districts around the country.
In a major opportunity for a House pickup, Ileana Ros-Lehtinen [FL-27] will not be running again. This seat went for HRC by 20 points; it should move from Likely GOP to Leans Dem.
===
Although I share the disappointment over KS-04, and the possibility of not picking up GA-06 and MT-AL, it's important to remember that even over-performing in a loss has the impacts we see above. More Dems are encouraged to run, GOP potential candidates stay out, GOP borderline incumbents decide to pursue other interests.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:10 PM on April 30, 2017 [34 favorites]
Wall Street Journal Balancing Lost Tax Revenue the Reagan Way: Gradually increasing the Social Security eligibility age can offset revenue loss from Trump’s tax cuts.
If Trump wants more jobs available to currently unemployed people, he should make it easier, not harder, for older people to retire. Raising the retirement age would directly undercut his "jobs" promises as well as his "not messing with social security" promises. Also... manual labor messes up your body. His working class fans can't stay in their manual labor jobs until they are seventy.
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:29 PM on April 30, 2017 [28 favorites]
Repeating the Reagan reform by gradually raising the age for full benefits from 67 to 70 for those now under the age of 55 would reduce the annual cost of Social Security by about 15%, or 1% of GDP. Together with reforms of federal health-care spending, that should be enough to close the budget gap created by tax reform and increased defense outlays.Obviously this is awful on a whole bunch of levels. But I'm stuck on what a betrayal it would be of his base.
If Trump wants more jobs available to currently unemployed people, he should make it easier, not harder, for older people to retire. Raising the retirement age would directly undercut his "jobs" promises as well as his "not messing with social security" promises. Also... manual labor messes up your body. His working class fans can't stay in their manual labor jobs until they are seventy.
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:29 PM on April 30, 2017 [28 favorites]
Ileana Ros-Lehtinen to retire from Congress
Her unexpected retirement marks the end of a storied career in which Ros-Lehtinen repeatedly broke political ground as a Cuban-American woman -- and gives Democrats an opportunity to pick up a South Florida congressional seat in 2018.posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 6:29 PM on April 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
Ros-Lehtinen, 64, was elected last November to Florida’s redrawn 27th district, a stretch of Southeast Miami-Dade County that leans so Democratic that Hillary Clinton won it over Donald Trump by 20 percentage points. It was Clinton's biggest margin of any Republican-held seat in the country.
Repeating the Reagan reform by gradually raising the age for full benefits from 67 to 70 for those now under the age of 55 would reduce the annual cost of Social Security by about 15%, or 1% of GDP
And for 2017 only the first $127,500 of earnings is subject to Social Security. What is there any ceiling?
Increasing Payroll Taxes Would Strengthen Social Security
Of course also to take in to account is Trump's bullet point tax plan It's unclear but it seem like high income individuals will have the option of taking earnings as an S-Corp pass thru as corporate earnings at a lower rate, thereby not paying in to social Security or Medicare at all.
posted by readery at 6:59 PM on April 30, 2017 [10 favorites]
And for 2017 only the first $127,500 of earnings is subject to Social Security. What is there any ceiling?
Increasing Payroll Taxes Would Strengthen Social Security
Of course also to take in to account is Trump's bullet point tax plan It's unclear but it seem like high income individuals will have the option of taking earnings as an S-Corp pass thru as corporate earnings at a lower rate, thereby not paying in to social Security or Medicare at all.
posted by readery at 6:59 PM on April 30, 2017 [10 favorites]
Of course also to take in to account is Trump's bullet point tax plan It's unclear but it seem like high income individuals will have the option of taking earnings as an S-Corp pass thru as corporate earnings at a lower rate, thereby not paying in to social Security or Medicare at all.
Yeah. When that bullet point came up my eyebrow raised a few inches. If you're looking to create a massive tax dodge for the upper class, turning Joe CEO into Joe CEO Inc. and giving them a lower tax rate is absolutely the first thing I would go for.
posted by Talez at 7:03 PM on April 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yeah. When that bullet point came up my eyebrow raised a few inches. If you're looking to create a massive tax dodge for the upper class, turning Joe CEO into Joe CEO Inc. and giving them a lower tax rate is absolutely the first thing I would go for.
posted by Talez at 7:03 PM on April 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
My daughter just turned 22. We were talking the other day about politics, and I was saying how the republicans wanted to get rid of medicare, and social security.
"Oh, I just figured we would never have that," she said.
Welcome to the wasteland.
posted by valkane at 7:19 PM on April 30, 2017 [16 favorites]
"Oh, I just figured we would never have that," she said.
Welcome to the wasteland.
posted by valkane at 7:19 PM on April 30, 2017 [16 favorites]
NYT: Under the Trump Tax Plan, We Might All Want to Become Corporations
posted by Lyme Drop at 7:22 PM on April 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Lyme Drop at 7:22 PM on April 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
Congress reaches deal to keep government open through September
Congressional Republicans, Democrats reach agreement on $1T measure to fund government until Oct. 1
posted by futz at 7:26 PM on April 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
Congressional Republicans, Democrats reach agreement on $1T measure to fund government until Oct. 1
posted by futz at 7:26 PM on April 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
The entire AP article: "Congressional Republicans, Democrats reach agreement on $1T measure to fund government until Oct. 1."
Thank you, Associated Press.
posted by dirigibleman at 7:37 PM on April 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
Thank you, Associated Press.
posted by dirigibleman at 7:37 PM on April 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
Welcome to the wasteland.
I'm in my early thirties. I find it darkly funny when people who are older than me are offended when I say that no one my age expects to receive Social Security.
It's like people in their 60s remember a time when the welfare state wasn't under constant attack.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 7:39 PM on April 30, 2017 [36 favorites]
I'm in my early thirties. I find it darkly funny when people who are older than me are offended when I say that no one my age expects to receive Social Security.
It's like people in their 60s remember a time when the welfare state wasn't under constant attack.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 7:39 PM on April 30, 2017 [36 favorites]
No indication whether it includes payments to insurance companies for Obamacare cost sharing reductions. Democrats should refuse to go along with a deal that doesn't include that. Otherwise they just leave the hostages to the Republicans.
posted by JackFlash at 7:40 PM on April 30, 2017
posted by JackFlash at 7:40 PM on April 30, 2017
I'm in my 40s and I've sort of always assumed there wouldn't be social security waiting for me at the end of the line.
posted by Andrhia at 7:47 PM on April 30, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by Andrhia at 7:47 PM on April 30, 2017 [17 favorites]
Yeah, I'm 35, and literally no one has ever told me to think social security would even exist by the time I would be eligible.
It feels like a republican long-game propaganda thing. If you can convince younger folks that they'll never get social security, they won't want to pay into it, which helps ensure the end of social security.
posted by mrgoat at 7:47 PM on April 30, 2017 [29 favorites]
It feels like a republican long-game propaganda thing. If you can convince younger folks that they'll never get social security, they won't want to pay into it, which helps ensure the end of social security.
posted by mrgoat at 7:47 PM on April 30, 2017 [29 favorites]
Fox News: Trump invites controversial Philippines leader Duterte to White House
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:55 PM on April 30, 2017 [31 favorites]
Trump's chief of staff, Reince Priebus, said Sunday the friendlier ties are needed due to the military threat posed by North Korea.When a murderous dictator tells you to cool your jets, maybe you should rethink your life choices.
"The purpose of this call is all about North Korea," Priebus told ABC's "This Week." "It doesn't mean that human rights don't matter."
[…]
Duterte suggested in a news conference Saturday that the Trump administration should back away from an intensifying standoff with North Korea, not in surrender, but to avoid risking a nuclear holocaust that could smother Asia.
"It would be good for America to just restrain a little bit and if I were President Trump, I'll just back out, not really in surrender and retreat, but just to let the guy realize that, 'Ah, please do not do it,'" Duterte said.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:55 PM on April 30, 2017 [31 favorites]
literally no one has ever told me to think social security would even exist by the time I would be eligible.
Nobody? Literally? Have you ever gone to SSA.GOV? They have calculators that will show you your expected benefits under current law. You haven't listened to speeches by Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders or many others? Nobody?
posted by JackFlash at 7:57 PM on April 30, 2017 [22 favorites]
Nobody? Literally? Have you ever gone to SSA.GOV? They have calculators that will show you your expected benefits under current law. You haven't listened to speeches by Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders or many others? Nobody?
posted by JackFlash at 7:57 PM on April 30, 2017 [22 favorites]
"Yeah, I'm 35, and literally no one has ever told me to think social security would even exist by the time I would be eligible.
It feels like a republican long-game propaganda thing. If you can convince younger folks that they'll never get social security, they won't want to pay into it, which helps ensure the end of social security."
Ding-ding-ding! You win the prize! That's exactly it. THAT is why it pisses me off mightily when people my age (51) or younger say "we don't expect we'll ever get Social Security." Well, you won't if you fucking roll over and die instead of fighting back!
Don't play the role they want you to play. Insist that you are going to get the services you've been paying into, and that every other civilized country has, at a reasonable age. Don't take no for an answer! Assume that the system we were promised will be there for you and take steps to ensure it happens rather than being fatalistic.
Yes, this is a hot-button issue for me ... right at an age where I am likely to get hosed really badly if SocSec falls apart. But I want it there for everyone younger than I, too.
RAISE THE GODDAMNED INCOME CAP. The obvious answer, unless you're rich and selfish.
posted by litlnemo at 8:00 PM on April 30, 2017 [74 favorites]
It feels like a republican long-game propaganda thing. If you can convince younger folks that they'll never get social security, they won't want to pay into it, which helps ensure the end of social security."
Ding-ding-ding! You win the prize! That's exactly it. THAT is why it pisses me off mightily when people my age (51) or younger say "we don't expect we'll ever get Social Security." Well, you won't if you fucking roll over and die instead of fighting back!
Don't play the role they want you to play. Insist that you are going to get the services you've been paying into, and that every other civilized country has, at a reasonable age. Don't take no for an answer! Assume that the system we were promised will be there for you and take steps to ensure it happens rather than being fatalistic.
Yes, this is a hot-button issue for me ... right at an age where I am likely to get hosed really badly if SocSec falls apart. But I want it there for everyone younger than I, too.
RAISE THE GODDAMNED INCOME CAP. The obvious answer, unless you're rich and selfish.
posted by litlnemo at 8:00 PM on April 30, 2017 [74 favorites]
When everyone is all "ooooh, there will be no social security", we should pause a moment - most Americans do not have enough to retire on and would not end up with enough to retire on even if they paid no social security taxes but instead invested the money. And most Americans are going to get too old to work full time - most of us are not going to be strong and vigorous until the very moment that we drop over dead. And you know, that will be a huge social problem - the transition from "old people get social security and retire when they get too old to work" to "old people either die on the street or are supported 100% by relatives". Now, I know the official line is we're all living in Fascist Utopia and no act of evil is too large and they'll just machine gun us if we get old and try to demand social services, but I'm just not sure that I really see an effective way to go from social security to zero social security without a huge political cost.
Trump's tax plan is terrible and dangerous, and if there's a way to sink social security it is definitely to make it an appropriations thing so that it can be cut and cut and cut, but I still have my doubts. Moving from a society where there is a major public benefit that solves a major public problem affecting the overwhelming majority of Americans to a society where that does not happen isn't as easy as the Republicans would like us to believe.
You guys, seriously, believe in social security. Clap for tinkerbell. Retirement programs are not in fact that left wing or anything - they've existed since the Iron Chancellor himself, Bismark as ever was, started them in Prussia.
The Republicans are evil but they're not magic.
posted by Frowner at 8:02 PM on April 30, 2017 [45 favorites]
Trump's tax plan is terrible and dangerous, and if there's a way to sink social security it is definitely to make it an appropriations thing so that it can be cut and cut and cut, but I still have my doubts. Moving from a society where there is a major public benefit that solves a major public problem affecting the overwhelming majority of Americans to a society where that does not happen isn't as easy as the Republicans would like us to believe.
You guys, seriously, believe in social security. Clap for tinkerbell. Retirement programs are not in fact that left wing or anything - they've existed since the Iron Chancellor himself, Bismark as ever was, started them in Prussia.
The Republicans are evil but they're not magic.
posted by Frowner at 8:02 PM on April 30, 2017 [45 favorites]
SS is not a welfare program. It is money I have already paid, and I damn well expect to get it back, with interest. I am 44.
posted by Dashy at 8:03 PM on April 30, 2017 [39 favorites]
posted by Dashy at 8:03 PM on April 30, 2017 [39 favorites]
I apologize. Figuratively, used as an emphatic term, no one has ever told me to think social security would exist when I would be eligible. Literally, no one has, in person, ever told me to think so. I have certainly seen or heard claims to the contrary in political speeches and from the government agency whose existence depends on it still being there.
posted by mrgoat at 8:03 PM on April 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by mrgoat at 8:03 PM on April 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
Sam Levine, HuffPo: Georgia Is Trying To Block Newly Registered Voters From Taking Part In Fierce Runoff Election
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:04 PM on April 30, 2017 [40 favorites]
Georgia election officials contend that the June runoff is simply a continuation of the special election this week, so they don’t have to allow newly registered voters to participate. The registration deadline for Tuesday’s election was March 20, and officials say anybody who registers after that day is not eligible to vote in the June runoff.There's a reason I have a keyboard shortcut for the tag #FuckingRepublicans.
Ezra Rosenberg, co-director of the voting rights project at the Lawyers’ Committee, argues that under the federal law, Georgia can’t set the registration deadline for the June 20 runoff any earlier than 30 days before that election ― that is, May 22.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:04 PM on April 30, 2017 [40 favorites]
Of course, I still want social security and consider it a great thing. I vote accordingly, and am happy to pay into it. But if I'm to think about my own financial security, I can't count on republicans not fucking me out of it no matter what I do.
I'm gonna stop on this topic, it's getting derail-y and I think we're pretty much all on the same side here.
posted by mrgoat at 8:12 PM on April 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm gonna stop on this topic, it's getting derail-y and I think we're pretty much all on the same side here.
posted by mrgoat at 8:12 PM on April 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
I should clarify that in my rant, when I said "you" I meant a general "you," not you specifically, mrgoat. :)
posted by litlnemo at 8:17 PM on April 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by litlnemo at 8:17 PM on April 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
(In other words, there was no need for you to apologize.)
posted by litlnemo at 8:20 PM on April 30, 2017
posted by litlnemo at 8:20 PM on April 30, 2017
If young people had once in their life seen the Democratic party like, actually fight for safety-net programs, then they might expect to get them
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:27 PM on April 30, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:27 PM on April 30, 2017 [10 favorites]
Well, there is that. But, dammit, Dems like me have been trying to get them to fight for our whole lives.
posted by litlnemo at 8:33 PM on April 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by litlnemo at 8:33 PM on April 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
No indication whether the deal includes payments to insurance companies for Obamacare cost sharing reductions.
Answering my own question, it seems that Democrats are holding to the legal position that the payments are not required to annually authorized in the budget because they are permanently encoded into the ACA. So to ask for budget authorization would be to weaken their legal position and put the payments up for hostage each year.
Instead they are asking for a verbal agreement from Trump to make the payments as currently required by the ACA law. Trump seems to have given in, but his promises are untrustworthy. Kind of a risky strategy, but probably the best Democrats can do right now until the current lawsuits are resolved by the Supreme Court. Democrats are hoping that the Supreme Court will agree that the payments are non-negotiable under current law.
posted by JackFlash at 8:54 PM on April 30, 2017 [12 favorites]
Answering my own question, it seems that Democrats are holding to the legal position that the payments are not required to annually authorized in the budget because they are permanently encoded into the ACA. So to ask for budget authorization would be to weaken their legal position and put the payments up for hostage each year.
Instead they are asking for a verbal agreement from Trump to make the payments as currently required by the ACA law. Trump seems to have given in, but his promises are untrustworthy. Kind of a risky strategy, but probably the best Democrats can do right now until the current lawsuits are resolved by the Supreme Court. Democrats are hoping that the Supreme Court will agree that the payments are non-negotiable under current law.
posted by JackFlash at 8:54 PM on April 30, 2017 [12 favorites]
Trying to.
And thanks, people who aren't Millenials, for illustrating my point. I'm also setting up an appointment to talk about sterilization, because I am assuming abortion will be illegal within a few years. I don't want it to be, but that's not the question. The rage you're exhibiting is silly and misguided, but it's also telling. Treating us like we're the enemy just makes it harder for me to take your argument seriously.
Retirement in the US works on layers of grandfather clauses. Pensions are available to people who were in a job prior to a certain time. Ditto for 401K matches. Ditto -- one might easily reason -- for Social Security. I wish it weren't the case. But that's not the question.
If your plans involve believing in fairies or in me fighting for your right to access something that your generation is gleefully taking away from mine, you need to reconsider them.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 9:00 PM on April 30, 2017 [18 favorites]
And thanks, people who aren't Millenials, for illustrating my point. I'm also setting up an appointment to talk about sterilization, because I am assuming abortion will be illegal within a few years. I don't want it to be, but that's not the question. The rage you're exhibiting is silly and misguided, but it's also telling. Treating us like we're the enemy just makes it harder for me to take your argument seriously.
Retirement in the US works on layers of grandfather clauses. Pensions are available to people who were in a job prior to a certain time. Ditto for 401K matches. Ditto -- one might easily reason -- for Social Security. I wish it weren't the case. But that's not the question.
If your plans involve believing in fairies or in me fighting for your right to access something that your generation is gleefully taking away from mine, you need to reconsider them.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 9:00 PM on April 30, 2017 [18 favorites]
Trump's chief of staff, Reince Priebus, said Sunday the friendlier ties are needed due to the military threat posed by North Korea.
Well, that's just good sense, that is. It's not like the combined military power of the US, ROK, and PRC would be sufficient to deter Kim from doing something monumentally dipshitted. And only a fool would think that the combined forces of the ROK and US would be sufficient to defeat a North Korean attack. No, obviously, the idea of defending the Korean peninsula only becomes a really credible idea if we bring the Filipino armed forces into the mix.
I look forward to Priebus's post-hoc rationalization for our inevitable make-out session with Erdogan. Only he can save us from the KISS Army?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:04 PM on April 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
Well, that's just good sense, that is. It's not like the combined military power of the US, ROK, and PRC would be sufficient to deter Kim from doing something monumentally dipshitted. And only a fool would think that the combined forces of the ROK and US would be sufficient to defeat a North Korean attack. No, obviously, the idea of defending the Korean peninsula only becomes a really credible idea if we bring the Filipino armed forces into the mix.
I look forward to Priebus's post-hoc rationalization for our inevitable make-out session with Erdogan. Only he can save us from the KISS Army?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:04 PM on April 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
steady-state strawberry, the rage is not at you or Millennials. The rage is at folks who are "fuck you, got mine" to younger generations. And that (younger generation) includes us Gen-Xers, for the most part, because proposed changes all exclude us (notice how it's usually people over 55 who are promised that SocSec or Medicare won't change for them? The oldest Gen-Xers, depending on your definition, are in their early 50s right now). But I do think that giving up and just letting them screw us over without a fight is unproductive (and also what the FYGM people want us to do), and I have been ranting about this for the last 25 years or so.
Giving up and assuming you'll just have to find another way to deal with old age is not specifically a Millennial thing. Gen-X has been doing it too and it's frustrating because for some of us, SocSec is going to have to be a major part of our retirement. You know when pensions started going away, unions disappeared, college prices started going up rapidly? Right about the time the oldest Gen-Xers hit the job market. Yeah, you've got it way worse, and that's wrong and should not be happening, but damn, we are scared of our future too, and they are going to pull the blanket out from under us almost as hard if we let them.
You know how many middle-aged people have no pension, and no or very little 401k/IRA etc.? It's a terrifyingly high number. (I didn't have a penny of retirement saved after my divorce. Luckily I have managed to mitigate that since but it really was luck and not merit that I was able to. I honestly live in terror of having to eat roadkill as an older person.)
We are NOT (well, at least, I am not) treating you as an enemy. You are absolutely on the same side. I want the US to stop screwing over Millennials. I fight for policies to that end. But one way I want that to happen is for the social safety net to exist for you and following generations. And I firmly believe that being fatalistic about it and assuming that it just won't be there is one way to ensure it won't.)
(N.b. this does NOT mean you shouldn't prepare for it not to exist. Just fight for it, that's all. Don't let them just take it away, while they laugh their way to the bank. Fight for you and for us and for everyone getting hosed by FYGM policies.)
Please do not read my comments as rage at you and your generational cohort. That's a rather uncharitable reading.
posted by litlnemo at 9:28 PM on April 30, 2017 [35 favorites]
Giving up and assuming you'll just have to find another way to deal with old age is not specifically a Millennial thing. Gen-X has been doing it too and it's frustrating because for some of us, SocSec is going to have to be a major part of our retirement. You know when pensions started going away, unions disappeared, college prices started going up rapidly? Right about the time the oldest Gen-Xers hit the job market. Yeah, you've got it way worse, and that's wrong and should not be happening, but damn, we are scared of our future too, and they are going to pull the blanket out from under us almost as hard if we let them.
You know how many middle-aged people have no pension, and no or very little 401k/IRA etc.? It's a terrifyingly high number. (I didn't have a penny of retirement saved after my divorce. Luckily I have managed to mitigate that since but it really was luck and not merit that I was able to. I honestly live in terror of having to eat roadkill as an older person.)
We are NOT (well, at least, I am not) treating you as an enemy. You are absolutely on the same side. I want the US to stop screwing over Millennials. I fight for policies to that end. But one way I want that to happen is for the social safety net to exist for you and following generations. And I firmly believe that being fatalistic about it and assuming that it just won't be there is one way to ensure it won't.)
(N.b. this does NOT mean you shouldn't prepare for it not to exist. Just fight for it, that's all. Don't let them just take it away, while they laugh their way to the bank. Fight for you and for us and for everyone getting hosed by FYGM policies.)
Please do not read my comments as rage at you and your generational cohort. That's a rather uncharitable reading.
posted by litlnemo at 9:28 PM on April 30, 2017 [35 favorites]
Ray Walston, Luck Dragon: "If young people had once in their life seen the Democratic party like, actually fight for safety-net programs, then they might expect to get them"
The GOP made a pretty big effort to kill SS under W, and the Dems stopped them.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:33 PM on April 30, 2017 [30 favorites]
The GOP made a pretty big effort to kill SS under W, and the Dems stopped them.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:33 PM on April 30, 2017 [30 favorites]
Damn, never thought of it like that. Thanks for the sage advice.
posted by codacorolla at 9:35 PM on April 30, 2017
posted by codacorolla at 9:35 PM on April 30, 2017
Really important note here: as the Social Security Trustee's Report confirms every year, the only reason to feel any apprehension at all is that rich people don't pay the same Social Security taxes everyone else does. Simply requiring them to do so, and giving them benefits proportional to their contributions like everyone else, takes care of any solvency issues all the way out to 2070. (As in, it makes 2070 the year when it might be necessary to dial benefits for everyone down below 100%, if we did absolutely nothing else during the next half-century.)
Or even if we can't muster the political will to touch the special low-tax status of the rich, a 2.9% bump in the current SS payroll tax resolves solvency issues all the way beyond the current horizon of estimates.
But there's really no reason to exempt wealthy people from investing in the security of society along with the rest of us. They probably benefit far more than anyone else from having a vastly expanded supply of labor to draw on compared to pre-Social-Security-Act circumstances where the elderly needed to be directly supported by their families. And of course a vastly expanded labor supply has helped to keep wages and salaries lower. (For all of us who remember being directly exhorted by George W. Bush to go out and spend, spend, spend to support the war effort, the wealthy are also leeching off of the layers of our consumerism-driven economy buoyed by those SS benefits as they're being spent.)
So any sky-is-falling talk about the imminent end of Social Security, or fables about SS being impossible to maintain as a result of demographic changes, or asking why should anyone have to pay SS taxes if it's going to be gone so soon? is like so many other things in politics an illusory fata Morgana issuing from the desperate desire and machinations of rich people to avoid paying taxes.
The Social Security program has been under attack like this since before it was even established—in 1961 Ronald Reagan released a vinyl record about how Social Security and Medicare would mean the end of freedom and if they were enacted the government would choose where everyone worked for them. But then of course when he ran for president it turned out he'd been talking about completely different legislation that didn't pass out of Congress and SS and Medicare were just fine; the fact that none of his apocalyptic predictions had come to pass did not indicate that he was full of shit.
The above links are from the 2015 version of the Social Security Trustee's Report, part of a longer list of possible payroll tax related solvency measures and an even longer list of solvency provisions using other approaches. Not-yet-permalinked 2016 numbers are available too: ①, ②, ③, ④, which seem to forecast slightly better outcomes but still basically say the same thing it does every year. Hopefully those will be replaced in a few months with the 2017 report...
posted by XMLicious at 11:32 PM on April 30, 2017 [64 favorites]
Or even if we can't muster the political will to touch the special low-tax status of the rich, a 2.9% bump in the current SS payroll tax resolves solvency issues all the way beyond the current horizon of estimates.
But there's really no reason to exempt wealthy people from investing in the security of society along with the rest of us. They probably benefit far more than anyone else from having a vastly expanded supply of labor to draw on compared to pre-Social-Security-Act circumstances where the elderly needed to be directly supported by their families. And of course a vastly expanded labor supply has helped to keep wages and salaries lower. (For all of us who remember being directly exhorted by George W. Bush to go out and spend, spend, spend to support the war effort, the wealthy are also leeching off of the layers of our consumerism-driven economy buoyed by those SS benefits as they're being spent.)
So any sky-is-falling talk about the imminent end of Social Security, or fables about SS being impossible to maintain as a result of demographic changes, or asking why should anyone have to pay SS taxes if it's going to be gone so soon? is like so many other things in politics an illusory fata Morgana issuing from the desperate desire and machinations of rich people to avoid paying taxes.
The Social Security program has been under attack like this since before it was even established—in 1961 Ronald Reagan released a vinyl record about how Social Security and Medicare would mean the end of freedom and if they were enacted the government would choose where everyone worked for them. But then of course when he ran for president it turned out he'd been talking about completely different legislation that didn't pass out of Congress and SS and Medicare were just fine; the fact that none of his apocalyptic predictions had come to pass did not indicate that he was full of shit.
The above links are from the 2015 version of the Social Security Trustee's Report, part of a longer list of possible payroll tax related solvency measures and an even longer list of solvency provisions using other approaches. Not-yet-permalinked 2016 numbers are available too: ①, ②, ③, ④, which seem to forecast slightly better outcomes but still basically say the same thing it does every year. Hopefully those will be replaced in a few months with the 2017 report...
posted by XMLicious at 11:32 PM on April 30, 2017 [64 favorites]
Sebastian Gorka to leave White House amid accusations of links to far-right
Ha HA! Wonderful news to wake up to on May Day. Please keep fucking off, Nazi punks.
posted by Ten Cold Hot Dogs at 12:28 AM on May 1, 2017 [26 favorites]
Ha HA! Wonderful news to wake up to on May Day. Please keep fucking off, Nazi punks.
posted by Ten Cold Hot Dogs at 12:28 AM on May 1, 2017 [26 favorites]
Here in Denmark, one of this weekend's big stories was about a millionaire and entrepreneur who moved to the US and then did the calculations and found out that it would be cheaper and better for him to live in Denmark in spite of the Danish "high taxes". In the article he says that many Danes think the grass is greener in the US because taxes are lower, but they are mistaken and don't count in the cost of insurances, education and childcare.
Unfortunately, I can't access the actual article because of a paywall, here is the summary I read (in Danish for your translate experiments).
I have long suspected that would be the case, and that there are several reasons. The biggest reason is probably that US healthcare is so extremely expensive and inefficient, and for that to change you would need a huge bipartisan political effort — something like what the ACA was originally meant to be, but on a much larger scale.
Maybe solving this state for state would be simpler? Any state that went single payer would have huge leverage over the providers. Or they could do a German/Swiss version where the insurance companies still manage the payments but they are very strictly regulated so no-one pays more than about 2/3 of todays prices (because that is the international high level). If enough states proved it can be done, the argument against universal care would be weaker nationally.
As this election has demonstrated with nightmarish clarity, it means a lot to the world how Americans are doing. If you get a proto-fascist madman for president, it will affect our wellbeing in many ways. (This is my excuse for being meddlesome).
posted by mumimor at 12:30 AM on May 1, 2017 [35 favorites]
Unfortunately, I can't access the actual article because of a paywall, here is the summary I read (in Danish for your translate experiments).
I have long suspected that would be the case, and that there are several reasons. The biggest reason is probably that US healthcare is so extremely expensive and inefficient, and for that to change you would need a huge bipartisan political effort — something like what the ACA was originally meant to be, but on a much larger scale.
Maybe solving this state for state would be simpler? Any state that went single payer would have huge leverage over the providers. Or they could do a German/Swiss version where the insurance companies still manage the payments but they are very strictly regulated so no-one pays more than about 2/3 of todays prices (because that is the international high level). If enough states proved it can be done, the argument against universal care would be weaker nationally.
As this election has demonstrated with nightmarish clarity, it means a lot to the world how Americans are doing. If you get a proto-fascist madman for president, it will affect our wellbeing in many ways. (This is my excuse for being meddlesome).
posted by mumimor at 12:30 AM on May 1, 2017 [35 favorites]
Simply requiring them to do so, and giving them benefits proportional to their contributions like everyone else,
Is there a really clear calculator somewhere that shows how things change when you tinker with it? I went to google about this and found social security payouts seem more complicated and less useful, especially for women, than I thought. Unless I'm reading it wrong, they average out your earnings over 35 years, including the years you don't work, which I guess just get a factor of zero? So if you've worked only some years, it doesn't seem like such a great guarantee. Unless I'm reading it wrong, which I totally could be.
posted by corb at 1:06 AM on May 1, 2017
Is there a really clear calculator somewhere that shows how things change when you tinker with it? I went to google about this and found social security payouts seem more complicated and less useful, especially for women, than I thought. Unless I'm reading it wrong, they average out your earnings over 35 years, including the years you don't work, which I guess just get a factor of zero? So if you've worked only some years, it doesn't seem like such a great guarantee. Unless I'm reading it wrong, which I totally could be.
posted by corb at 1:06 AM on May 1, 2017
The Trump campaign, and I still can't believe that's a thing, is claiming that they're spending $1.5 million to air this ad about the 100 day message the fake news won't let you see.
posted by zachlipton at 2:09 AM on May 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 2:09 AM on May 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
Is there a really clear calculator somewhere that shows how things change when you tinker with it? [snip] ...if you've worked only some years, it doesn't seem like such a great guarantee.
I think any calculator you'll to find is going to calculate based upon current rules rather than the varying ones in these alternative solvency scenarios.
Maybe you could provide an example of something you'd consider a great guarantee? The point of the system is that it is a guarantee, for everyone in society (when women who didn't work were relegated to spousal benefits that was an issue, yeah, but everyone's been forced out into the labor supply now; anyone who's still left out at this point certainly should be included) rather than a risk-mediated investment product that can evaporate when the wealthiest people fuck around and do things like cause the 2008 global financial crisis.
If wealthy people don't regard it as "useful" that such a backstop exists, and that therefore there's a small chunk of the economy set aside where it can't be used as the ante in a gamble remixed as derivatives nine different ways, too fucking bad. They shouldn't have spent the entire history of the country causing economic catastrophes with various forms of speculation and ways of shunting business and financial risk onto the rest of society.
They've been accumulating profits from the economy-wide and society-wide benefits of Social Security I mentioned above for more than half a century now while their relative contributions become vanishingly small as you move further up the income scale, and while more and more of total wealth and income has been moving into the richest hands and thereby been excluded from the cash flow supporting Social Security. It's time for them to have some real skin in the game too.
If they can afford to collectively plunk down the trillon-dollar chips on things like credit default swaps and collateralized debt obligations, they can afford to take part in making sure that people can at least get by if entire extended families live together during the parts of the cycle where it all goes to shit.
posted by XMLicious at 2:13 AM on May 1, 2017 [17 favorites]
when women who didn't work were relegated to spousal benefits that was an issue, yeah, but everyone's been forced out into the labor supply now; anyone who's still left out at this point certainly should be included
I was actually thinking about this specifically. Even 20 years ago it was super common that women didn't work outside the home, and even now I'd say there's a healthy portion of women who don't or who only started doing so in the last ten years. But if they go back 35 years and average them, then it doesn't matter if a woman started working in the last ten years, if she didn't work for the 25 before that it still looks like she's sunk. I mean none of this is new, exactly, I was just really surprised by it.
posted by corb at 2:35 AM on May 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
I was actually thinking about this specifically. Even 20 years ago it was super common that women didn't work outside the home, and even now I'd say there's a healthy portion of women who don't or who only started doing so in the last ten years. But if they go back 35 years and average them, then it doesn't matter if a woman started working in the last ten years, if she didn't work for the 25 before that it still looks like she's sunk. I mean none of this is new, exactly, I was just really surprised by it.
posted by corb at 2:35 AM on May 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
I would definitely be in favor of an altered calculation method that could do something like attribute part of a working person's contribution to non-working partners who are parenting children full-time and similar situations, so that those periods count more equally for each partner even if the relationship doesn't persist.
(I mean, the complexities involved kind of point to why people are enthusiastic about Universal Basic Income ideas I think, but since we're working with what we've got...)
posted by XMLicious at 2:47 AM on May 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
(I mean, the complexities involved kind of point to why people are enthusiastic about Universal Basic Income ideas I think, but since we're working with what we've got...)
posted by XMLicious at 2:47 AM on May 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
It's the best they could force the Republican Sith Lords to accept, and they are still paying the political price for getting us that much.
Not a single Republican in the Senate or the House voted for the ACA, and the House GOP immediately introduced a repeal bill.
It was the "blue dog " Democrats that had to be convinced, not the GOP.
posted by kewb at 3:15 AM on May 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
Not a single Republican in the Senate or the House voted for the ACA, and the House GOP immediately introduced a repeal bill.
It was the "blue dog " Democrats that had to be convinced, not the GOP.
posted by kewb at 3:15 AM on May 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
It was the "blue dog " Democrats that had to be convinced, not the GOP.
Not even that. There was one person who held out on the public option: Joe Lieberman.
After that act of betrayal he should have had every committee position stripped from him along with his Homeland Security chairmanship and he should have had to go beg Republicans for scraps.
posted by Talez at 3:52 AM on May 1, 2017 [49 favorites]
Not even that. There was one person who held out on the public option: Joe Lieberman.
After that act of betrayal he should have had every committee position stripped from him along with his Homeland Security chairmanship and he should have had to go beg Republicans for scraps.
posted by Talez at 3:52 AM on May 1, 2017 [49 favorites]
I can't find the piece in question, but in one of his exit interviews Obama mentioned the people he persuaded to pass the ACA knowing that doing so would get them booted out of office. The politics behind getting the bill into law were complex indeed, and it squeaked through - absolutely the art of the possible in practice. The idea that its flaws are the Democrat's fault, and something far finer could have been passed if Obama had the political will, rather than this being the best that could be done in the face of prolonged and angry opposition, just doesn't ring true from over here.
(Talking of the art of the possible, if you're not following along the latest on the nascent Brexit negotiations is that Europe is rather stunned by the degree of fantasy and off-planet - nay, off-galaxy - thinking in the UK's position. We'll have to see how it goes, but evidence is mounting that you can't wish unicorns into being no matter how hard you spit.)
posted by Devonian at 3:57 AM on May 1, 2017 [44 favorites]
(Talking of the art of the possible, if you're not following along the latest on the nascent Brexit negotiations is that Europe is rather stunned by the degree of fantasy and off-planet - nay, off-galaxy - thinking in the UK's position. We'll have to see how it goes, but evidence is mounting that you can't wish unicorns into being no matter how hard you spit.)
posted by Devonian at 3:57 AM on May 1, 2017 [44 favorites]
I don't know about another OKC but a guy in San Diego just shot 8 non-whites and committed suicide by cop.
posted by Talez at 4:25 AM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Talez at 4:25 AM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
It was the "blue dog " Democrats that had to be convinced, not the GOP.
But really it was Republican-leaning voters in the Blue Dog Democrats' districts who were standing in the way of a robust public option. Right? Because 1) they elected those Blue Dog Democrats and 2) They credibly threatened to elect a Republican instead if the Blue Dog Democrats voted for something too socialist, so that whatever their personal views, many of those Blue Dog Democrats demanded the concessions they did because they feared losing their seats.
When I say "We have to share power with Republicans at the national level" I don't just mean Republican politicians. I mean Republican voters too, even in Democratic districts. I feel like leftists a lot of times don't really believe that Republican (and conservative leaning Democratic) voters exist. They think "The people" want socialist programs and corrupt politicians are standing in their way. But whether it makes sense or not many of "the people" (especially in over-represented rural areas) want no such thing, and it is their preferences which represent the limits of what is politically possible. Not just poiticians' personal ideologies.
In other words - don't blame Joe Liberman or the Democratic party. Blame the people who elected Joe Liberman because they WANTED a Republican-lite.
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:31 AM on May 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
But really it was Republican-leaning voters in the Blue Dog Democrats' districts who were standing in the way of a robust public option. Right? Because 1) they elected those Blue Dog Democrats and 2) They credibly threatened to elect a Republican instead if the Blue Dog Democrats voted for something too socialist, so that whatever their personal views, many of those Blue Dog Democrats demanded the concessions they did because they feared losing their seats.
When I say "We have to share power with Republicans at the national level" I don't just mean Republican politicians. I mean Republican voters too, even in Democratic districts. I feel like leftists a lot of times don't really believe that Republican (and conservative leaning Democratic) voters exist. They think "The people" want socialist programs and corrupt politicians are standing in their way. But whether it makes sense or not many of "the people" (especially in over-represented rural areas) want no such thing, and it is their preferences which represent the limits of what is politically possible. Not just poiticians' personal ideologies.
In other words - don't blame Joe Liberman or the Democratic party. Blame the people who elected Joe Liberman because they WANTED a Republican-lite.
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:31 AM on May 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
And in this timeline Ross Douthat uses his column in the NYT to endorse Marine Le Pen as President of France over her opponent, whom he calls " a callow creature of a failed consensus".
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:33 AM on May 1, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:33 AM on May 1, 2017 [13 favorites]
I don't know about another OKC but a guy in San Diego just shot 8 non-whites and committed suicide by cop.
One victim is dead. And don't read the comments on the articles unless you want to endlessly hear how "We don't know what his motivation was".
posted by mikelieman at 4:58 AM on May 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
One victim is dead. And don't read the comments on the articles unless you want to endlessly hear how "We don't know what his motivation was".
posted by mikelieman at 4:58 AM on May 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Does anybody believe that Obamacare is what Obama or any other Democrat envisioned as the ideal plan? It's the best they could force the Republican Sith Lords to accept
And the Republican Supreme Court sabotaged even that, the Medicaid expansion would've covered 14million more people in Republican states before the Roberts Court invented the doctrine of the coercive dormant commerce clause.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:08 AM on May 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
And the Republican Supreme Court sabotaged even that, the Medicaid expansion would've covered 14million more people in Republican states before the Roberts Court invented the doctrine of the coercive dormant commerce clause.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:08 AM on May 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
That Supreme Court decision is now being cited as precedent for why the government can't withold funding from "Sanctuary cities" though...
Given how over-represented conservatives are at the federal level, Democrats might find themselves leaning more and more on those "States rights" precedents to be allowed to rule themselves as they like in California and New York. Ironically.
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:24 AM on May 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
Given how over-represented conservatives are at the federal level, Democrats might find themselves leaning more and more on those "States rights" precedents to be allowed to rule themselves as they like in California and New York. Ironically.
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:24 AM on May 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
Even 20 years ago it was super common that women didn't work outside the home
Maybe if you only count white women it was super common.
posted by winna at 5:36 AM on May 1, 2017 [32 favorites]
Maybe if you only count white women it was super common.
posted by winna at 5:36 AM on May 1, 2017 [32 favorites]
Happy Monday. Donald Trump thinks that Andrew Jackson was very mad about the Civil War, and also wants to know why we had a civil war. (Andrew Jackson died in 1845)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:39 AM on May 1, 2017 [44 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:39 AM on May 1, 2017 [44 favorites]
Even 20 years ago it was super common that women didn't work outside the home
Maybe if you only count white women it was super common.
I'm specifically not mentioning this to support or refute anyone's point in the larger conversation; what constitutes "super common" is subjective. Just looking at the facts, by 1997 overall workforce participation for women in the U.S. was 59%, which is very close to what it is today. The racial mix of the workplace was also very similar to what it is today, with white women at 58% and black women at 61%.
Tl;dr 1997 wasn't that long ago. Women were mostly done entering the workforce at their current rate by the late 1980s.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 5:55 AM on May 1, 2017 [27 favorites]
Maybe if you only count white women it was super common.
I'm specifically not mentioning this to support or refute anyone's point in the larger conversation; what constitutes "super common" is subjective. Just looking at the facts, by 1997 overall workforce participation for women in the U.S. was 59%, which is very close to what it is today. The racial mix of the workplace was also very similar to what it is today, with white women at 58% and black women at 61%.
Tl;dr 1997 wasn't that long ago. Women were mostly done entering the workforce at their current rate by the late 1980s.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 5:55 AM on May 1, 2017 [27 favorites]
It's not like we need more proof that he is extremely racist and stupid, but Jesus...
posted by Artw at 5:57 AM on May 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 5:57 AM on May 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I'm 35, and literally no one has ever told me to think social security would even exist by the time I would be eligible.
XMLicious beat me to saying everything I usually do when this come up. But I wanted to highlight two other things beyond what they said.
The Chief Actuary has two recent scores of the competing "philosophies" of Social Security "Reform". Republican Sam Johnson released an apocalyptic plan to "balance" the trust funds entirely through benefit cuts. The Republican plan to "save" Social Security is to preemptively end it. Johnson is the longtime ranking Republican on the House Social Security sub-committee, so he's not some newbie back bencher.
Meanwhile, John Larson of Connecticut offered an alternative plan slightly raising benefits, raising the income caps, and merging all of the trust funds together into one.
Both plans achieve actuarial balance across all time horizons to 75-years. One plan "saves" Social Security. The other saves it.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:04 AM on May 1, 2017 [22 favorites]
XMLicious beat me to saying everything I usually do when this come up. But I wanted to highlight two other things beyond what they said.
The Chief Actuary has two recent scores of the competing "philosophies" of Social Security "Reform". Republican Sam Johnson released an apocalyptic plan to "balance" the trust funds entirely through benefit cuts. The Republican plan to "save" Social Security is to preemptively end it. Johnson is the longtime ranking Republican on the House Social Security sub-committee, so he's not some newbie back bencher.
Meanwhile, John Larson of Connecticut offered an alternative plan slightly raising benefits, raising the income caps, and merging all of the trust funds together into one.
Both plans achieve actuarial balance across all time horizons to 75-years. One plan "saves" Social Security. The other saves it.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:04 AM on May 1, 2017 [22 favorites]
Even 20 years ago it was super common that women didn't work outside the home
Maybe if you only count white women it was super common.
Also, historical data on women's employment is skewed because it was based on self-reporting and many women either (a) did not answer truthfully (due to stigma/toxic masculinity) or (b) did not meet the definition of "employed" at the time (e.g., they worked for compensation but didn't have an "occupation" or they worked on farms owned by their families or they were enslaved).
posted by melissasaurus at 6:06 AM on May 1, 2017 [17 favorites]
Maybe if you only count white women it was super common.
Also, historical data on women's employment is skewed because it was based on self-reporting and many women either (a) did not answer truthfully (due to stigma/toxic masculinity) or (b) did not meet the definition of "employed" at the time (e.g., they worked for compensation but didn't have an "occupation" or they worked on farms owned by their families or they were enslaved).
posted by melissasaurus at 6:06 AM on May 1, 2017 [17 favorites]
And in this timeline Ross Douthat uses his column in the NYT to endorse Marine Le Pen as President of France over her opponent, whom he calls " a callow creature of a failed consensus".
For those who don't want to waste their mental energy on Douchehat, apparently he has no problem with neo-Fascist xenophobia per se, he just doesn't like incompetent neo-Fascist xenophobics, like Trump. Le Pen knows what she's doing, so she's totally A-OK.
posted by dis_integration at 6:16 AM on May 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
For those who don't want to waste their mental energy on Douchehat, apparently he has no problem with neo-Fascist xenophobia per se, he just doesn't like incompetent neo-Fascist xenophobics, like Trump. Le Pen knows what she's doing, so she's totally A-OK.
posted by dis_integration at 6:16 AM on May 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Trump: "People don't ask that question, but why was there the Civil War?"
OK, I know he doesn't read books, but I at least imagined he acknowledges their existence.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 6:17 AM on May 1, 2017 [38 favorites]
OK, I know he doesn't read books, but I at least imagined he acknowledges their existence.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 6:17 AM on May 1, 2017 [38 favorites]
Someone should write a book where the South wins the Civil War. Very interesting!
posted by thelonius at 6:22 AM on May 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 6:22 AM on May 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
this fucking guy
posted by localhuman at 6:28 AM on May 1, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by localhuman at 6:28 AM on May 1, 2017 [16 favorites]
Even 20 years ago it was super common that women didn't work outside the home
I'm 59 and most of the women I know have worked a combination of not working outside the home, full time employment, and part time. In my case it was always working around husband number 1 and husband number 2's schedules. So for example, when I had my daughter I stopped working at all outside the home and then went part time when she started school so that I would always be home or available when she needed me. Now in hindsight it would have been smarter for me to work full time always but I thought I was doing the right thing at the time. If I outlive husband number 2 and his pension stops with his death I will be screwed but there we are. I expect I am not that uncommon.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:31 AM on May 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
I'm 59 and most of the women I know have worked a combination of not working outside the home, full time employment, and part time. In my case it was always working around husband number 1 and husband number 2's schedules. So for example, when I had my daughter I stopped working at all outside the home and then went part time when she started school so that I would always be home or available when she needed me. Now in hindsight it would have been smarter for me to work full time always but I thought I was doing the right thing at the time. If I outlive husband number 2 and his pension stops with his death I will be screwed but there we are. I expect I am not that uncommon.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:31 AM on May 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
Donald Trump thinks that Andrew Jackson was very mad about the Civil War, and also wants to know why we had a civil war.
He asserts Jackson could have prevented the Civil War, but Jackson himself predicted it and punted. After the Nullification Crisis, in which South Carolina threatened de facto succession over high agricultural tariffs, Jackson wrote, "the tariff was only the pretext, and disunion and southern confederacy the real object. The next pretext will be the negro, or slavery question." Jackson, without the advantage of hindsight, more accurately described the cause of the Civil War than our current president.
posted by peeedro at 6:33 AM on May 1, 2017 [52 favorites]
He asserts Jackson could have prevented the Civil War, but Jackson himself predicted it and punted. After the Nullification Crisis, in which South Carolina threatened de facto succession over high agricultural tariffs, Jackson wrote, "the tariff was only the pretext, and disunion and southern confederacy the real object. The next pretext will be the negro, or slavery question." Jackson, without the advantage of hindsight, more accurately described the cause of the Civil War than our current president.
posted by peeedro at 6:33 AM on May 1, 2017 [52 favorites]
Why was there a Civil War....let me think...or maybe I could ask a 10 year old.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:38 AM on May 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:38 AM on May 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
He doesn't even realize that he's saying that a Democrat would have done a better job than a Republican, does he.
posted by Etrigan at 6:41 AM on May 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 6:41 AM on May 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
Civil War, boy, I don't know...
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:41 AM on May 1, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:41 AM on May 1, 2017 [17 favorites]
never thought I'd see the captain of america marvel at civil war
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:47 AM on May 1, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:47 AM on May 1, 2017 [25 favorites]
On Obama wiretapping claims: " 'I don't stand by anything. I just -- you can take it the way you want. I think our side's been proven very strongly. And everybody's talking about it. And frankly it should be discussed,' Trump said. 'That is a very big surveillance of our citizens. I think it's a very big topic. And it's a topic that should be number one. And we should find out what the hell is going on.' "
"When Dickerson pressed Trump for further details, the president replied that 'you don’t have to ask me' because 'I have my own opinions. You can have your own opinions.' Dickerson followed up that he wanted Trump’s opinion as president, prompting Trump to say 'Okay, it's enough. Thank you,' and abruptly end the interview."
It's been said before, but he's a Chinese Room with a personality disorder.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:50 AM on May 1, 2017 [31 favorites]
"When Dickerson pressed Trump for further details, the president replied that 'you don’t have to ask me' because 'I have my own opinions. You can have your own opinions.' Dickerson followed up that he wanted Trump’s opinion as president, prompting Trump to say 'Okay, it's enough. Thank you,' and abruptly end the interview."
It's been said before, but he's a Chinese Room with a personality disorder.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:50 AM on May 1, 2017 [31 favorites]
The NYT is really killing it lately with "Facism: eh maybe not so bad!" and "let's all say something nice about Trump!" [real] this week.
posted by emjaybee at 6:52 AM on May 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 6:52 AM on May 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
He asserts Jackson could have prevented the Civil War, but Jackson himself predicted it and punted.
God have mercy on my soul for defending Andrew Jackson, but he didn't punt on it. He answered South Carolina's secessionist talk by pushing Congress to pass the Force Act, empowering the President to collect tariffs with the US Army if necessary.
Andrew Jackson was a Grade-A piece of shit, but he answered Calhoun's secessionist talk immediately and decisively at every turn: "Our federal Union - it must be preserved!"
posted by absalom at 6:52 AM on May 1, 2017 [29 favorites]
God have mercy on my soul for defending Andrew Jackson, but he didn't punt on it. He answered South Carolina's secessionist talk by pushing Congress to pass the Force Act, empowering the President to collect tariffs with the US Army if necessary.
Andrew Jackson was a Grade-A piece of shit, but he answered Calhoun's secessionist talk immediately and decisively at every turn: "Our federal Union - it must be preserved!"
posted by absalom at 6:52 AM on May 1, 2017 [29 favorites]
"let's all say something nice about Trump!" [real]
Literally the most comfortable person who has ever lived, and they can't bring themselves to afflict him. Can we revoke past Pulitzers as punishment?
posted by Etrigan at 6:54 AM on May 1, 2017 [17 favorites]
Literally the most comfortable person who has ever lived, and they can't bring themselves to afflict him. Can we revoke past Pulitzers as punishment?
posted by Etrigan at 6:54 AM on May 1, 2017 [17 favorites]
Why could that one not have been worked out?
Because the South wanted war. Congress passed the Corwin Amendment on March 2, 1861:
No amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give to Congress the power to abolish or interfere, within any State, with the domestic institutions thereof, including that of persons held to labor or service by the laws of said State.Lincoln endorsed the Corwin Amendment in his first inaugural address on March 4, 1861 and said:
I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.The South attacked Fort Sumter on April 12.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:59 AM on May 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
Donald Trump thinks that Andrew Jackson was very mad about the Civil War, and also wants to know why we had a civil war.
HA HA HA we're all going to fucking die
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 7:00 AM on May 1, 2017 [11 favorites]
HA HA HA we're all going to fucking die
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 7:00 AM on May 1, 2017 [11 favorites]
Lincoln endorsed the Corwin Amendment in his first inaugural address on March 4, 1861...
By which time, let us recall, Jefferson Davis had already been President of the CSA for sixteen days. They didn't even wait for Lincoln to be the President.
posted by Etrigan at 7:02 AM on May 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
By which time, let us recall, Jefferson Davis had already been President of the CSA for sixteen days. They didn't even wait for Lincoln to be the President.
posted by Etrigan at 7:02 AM on May 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
HA HA HA we're all going to fucking die
"We'll see!" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by photoslob at 7:04 AM on May 1, 2017 [18 favorites]
"We'll see!" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by photoslob at 7:04 AM on May 1, 2017 [18 favorites]
Republicans are marching ahead with a mammoth 593-page bill to deregulate Wall Street
Spearheaded by House Finance Chair Rep. Jeb Hensarling (R-TX), the Choice Act begins by throwing out much of the banking oversight passed under President Obama’s administration, mostly through the Dodd-Frank act signed in 2010. But it goes further than that, rolling back oversight in a way that could dramatically exacerbate the likelihood of another financial crisis, according to experts in financial regulation.
“It’s a little hard to get your mind around everything this bill does, because there’s almost no area of financial regulation it doesn’t touch,” says Marcus Stanley, policy director for Americans for Financial Reform. “There’s a bunch of very radical stuff in this bill, and it goes way beyond repealing Dodd-Frank.”
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:05 AM on May 1, 2017 [16 favorites]
Spearheaded by House Finance Chair Rep. Jeb Hensarling (R-TX), the Choice Act begins by throwing out much of the banking oversight passed under President Obama’s administration, mostly through the Dodd-Frank act signed in 2010. But it goes further than that, rolling back oversight in a way that could dramatically exacerbate the likelihood of another financial crisis, according to experts in financial regulation.
“It’s a little hard to get your mind around everything this bill does, because there’s almost no area of financial regulation it doesn’t touch,” says Marcus Stanley, policy director for Americans for Financial Reform. “There’s a bunch of very radical stuff in this bill, and it goes way beyond repealing Dodd-Frank.”
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:05 AM on May 1, 2017 [16 favorites]
Trump: "People don't ask that question, but why was there the Civil War?"
Please, let's not pretend he was actually interested in a question. What he meant was, "I'm a bigly President and no Civil Wars are going on under me right now."
Unfit.
posted by petebest at 7:05 AM on May 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
Please, let's not pretend he was actually interested in a question. What he meant was, "I'm a bigly President and no Civil Wars are going on under me right now."
Unfit.
posted by petebest at 7:05 AM on May 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
Paul Ryan (who has health care for life by birthright of his father, who was also in Congress.)
So this or similar things keep popping up, and can we not ground our arguments with alternative facts from facebook memes?
Members of Congress used to get the same health insurance options as any other federal employee (plus the option to get outpatient care at DC-area military facilities). Now they get the same health insurance options as any other obamacare participant, though the feds kick in the same subsidy they would towards the federal health care plans.
Similarly, MCs participate in one of the standard federal retirement plans, though they're off on a weird branch with IIRC Secret Service agents and some other groups that don't typically work a full 20-65 career with the feds.
No lifetime health care, even though the meme said so. No getting their salary for life, even though the meme said so. Your first assumption should be that MCs get the same benefits as other federal workers, since that's what's normally the case.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:05 AM on May 1, 2017 [15 favorites]
So this or similar things keep popping up, and can we not ground our arguments with alternative facts from facebook memes?
Members of Congress used to get the same health insurance options as any other federal employee (plus the option to get outpatient care at DC-area military facilities). Now they get the same health insurance options as any other obamacare participant, though the feds kick in the same subsidy they would towards the federal health care plans.
Similarly, MCs participate in one of the standard federal retirement plans, though they're off on a weird branch with IIRC Secret Service agents and some other groups that don't typically work a full 20-65 career with the feds.
No lifetime health care, even though the meme said so. No getting their salary for life, even though the meme said so. Your first assumption should be that MCs get the same benefits as other federal workers, since that's what's normally the case.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:05 AM on May 1, 2017 [15 favorites]
WaPo: Guns and religion: How American conservatives grew closer to Putin’s Russia
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:05 AM on May 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
But the apparent increase in contacts in recent years, as well as the participation of officials from the Russian government and the influential Russian Orthodox church, leads some analysts to conclude that the Russian government probably promoted the efforts in an attempt to expand Putin’s power.Bonus - an account of a meeting between Putin and Franklin Graham.
“Is it possible that these are just well-meaning people who are reaching out to Americans with shared interests? It is possible,” said Steven L. Hall, who retired from the CIA in 2015 after managing Russia operations for 30 years. “Is it likely? I don’t think it’s likely at all. . . . My assessment is that it’s definitely part of something bigger.”
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:05 AM on May 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
Adding again to the very long list of things an AP high school student understands with far more nuance than the sitting president of the US.
The fact that Southern boys like Gowdy, who presumably had every last detail about every minor skirmish in the War of Northern Aggression hammered into his microcephalic noggin, have to sit and listen to this drivel is both just desserts and evidence of their craven complicity.
posted by aspersioncast at 7:08 AM on May 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
The fact that Southern boys like Gowdy, who presumably had every last detail about every minor skirmish in the War of Northern Aggression hammered into his microcephalic noggin, have to sit and listen to this drivel is both just desserts and evidence of their craven complicity.
posted by aspersioncast at 7:08 AM on May 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
Paul Ryan (who has health care for life by birthright of his father, who was also in Congress.)
Aside from the "health care for life" thing that ROU_X talked about, I think perhaps you meant Rand Paul there.
posted by Etrigan at 7:09 AM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Aside from the "health care for life" thing that ROU_X talked about, I think perhaps you meant Rand Paul there.
posted by Etrigan at 7:09 AM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
The fact that there is another updated memo is new. The part I bolded is new as far as I can tell. I knew about the Cohen Prague allegation but now 3 others also travelled to Prague at some point? And that the trump organization paid hackers is new also? Anyone here have a better memory than me?
This article seems to be about the original Steele dossier. Both of the allegations you mention are on page 34 of the version that Buzzfeed posted.
posted by diogenes at 7:12 AM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
This article seems to be about the original Steele dossier. Both of the allegations you mention are on page 34 of the version that Buzzfeed posted.
posted by diogenes at 7:12 AM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Starting to think Trump is practically challenging Sarah Vowell to write an Andrew Jackson book at this point.
posted by drezdn at 7:15 AM on May 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 7:15 AM on May 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
Another interesting WaPo story today: Why did Trump win? New research by Democrats offers a worrisome answer.
Probably best to go straight to the study's findings (pdf hosted on Post site), then read the Post story, which, to its credit, isn't just a rehash of the results but includes an interview with the group's director.
A couple of caveats: iirc from my journalism days, Priorities USA is about as progressive-wing as it gets; not that that's a bad thing, but I'd expect it to influence any focus group results. Also usual warnings to not get too angry about findings on leopards/face-eating voters and look instead at the findings on Obama voters who dropped out.
tl;dr: Democratic Party needs to beat people over the head that it will push economic policies that help lower- and middle-class voters. Other interesting stuff in there, too, though.
posted by martin q blank at 7:16 AM on May 1, 2017 [13 favorites]
Probably best to go straight to the study's findings (pdf hosted on Post site), then read the Post story, which, to its credit, isn't just a rehash of the results but includes an interview with the group's director.
A couple of caveats: iirc from my journalism days, Priorities USA is about as progressive-wing as it gets; not that that's a bad thing, but I'd expect it to influence any focus group results. Also usual warnings to not get too angry about findings on leopards/face-eating voters and look instead at the findings on Obama voters who dropped out.
tl;dr: Democratic Party needs to beat people over the head that it will push economic policies that help lower- and middle-class voters. Other interesting stuff in there, too, though.
posted by martin q blank at 7:16 AM on May 1, 2017 [13 favorites]
One of the things people never seem to bring up when they talk about our huge, beautiful president is that he is such a great question-asker. This is a great example. No one has ever before asked "Why Was There a Civil War?"
It seems like that would be a topic about which someone would have asked that question, does it not? "Why was there a Civil War?" So fundamental, and yet, so elusive.
Just think though, if there had been a body of literature, history, 30 Hour Ken Burns Documentaries, tv shows, and books about the Civil War, from which to derive an answer to that ethereal question. Yet I doubt there is even a simple Infowars link explaining Why was there a Civil War? I checked out Stormfront, and they had no mention of the Civil War, though many members were concerned about the concurrently occurring and apparently better-known War of Northern Aggression.
Thankfully, however, our huge, beautiful President has at least come up with a solution to the Civil War: Andrew Jackson. Sure, Ol' Mass Murderer (as he was affectionately known) died more than two decades before the Civil War. No matter. He would have fixed it better than that Lincoln fellow with the funny hat. "I like Presidents who don't get shot in the head," Trump will say later today. And he'll be right. He'll be right.
posted by Cookiebastard at 7:18 AM on May 1, 2017 [36 favorites]
It seems like that would be a topic about which someone would have asked that question, does it not? "Why was there a Civil War?" So fundamental, and yet, so elusive.
Just think though, if there had been a body of literature, history, 30 Hour Ken Burns Documentaries, tv shows, and books about the Civil War, from which to derive an answer to that ethereal question. Yet I doubt there is even a simple Infowars link explaining Why was there a Civil War? I checked out Stormfront, and they had no mention of the Civil War, though many members were concerned about the concurrently occurring and apparently better-known War of Northern Aggression.
Thankfully, however, our huge, beautiful President has at least come up with a solution to the Civil War: Andrew Jackson. Sure, Ol' Mass Murderer (as he was affectionately known) died more than two decades before the Civil War. No matter. He would have fixed it better than that Lincoln fellow with the funny hat. "I like Presidents who don't get shot in the head," Trump will say later today. And he'll be right. He'll be right.
posted by Cookiebastard at 7:18 AM on May 1, 2017 [36 favorites]
NYT: Rodrigo Duterte Says He May Be Too Busy for White House Visit
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:23 AM on May 1, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:23 AM on May 1, 2017 [19 favorites]
But what is civil war? It's a difficult question because civil war is impossible to describe. One might ask the same about birds. What are birds? We just don't know.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:24 AM on May 1, 2017 [37 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:24 AM on May 1, 2017 [37 favorites]
tl;dr: Democratic Party needs to beat people over the head that it will push economic policies that help lower- and middle-class voters. Other interesting stuff in there, too, though.
Bailing out banks with zero consequences while doing nothing for foreclosed homeowners is the gift that will never stop giving.
But that takeaway burys the real lead:
A sizable chunk of Obama-Trump voters — 30 percent — said their vote for Trump was more a vote against Clinton than a vote for Trump. Remember, these voters backed Obama four years earlier.
So. Misogyny. Clinton rules. Biden would've won with the same message. There's nothing new here. Everything is the reason, but mostly the misogyny and Clinton's long history in the public eye and as the focus of a 30 year Republican negativity campaign against her that no other candidate will ever have again.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:27 AM on May 1, 2017 [38 favorites]
Bailing out banks with zero consequences while doing nothing for foreclosed homeowners is the gift that will never stop giving.
But that takeaway burys the real lead:
A sizable chunk of Obama-Trump voters — 30 percent — said their vote for Trump was more a vote against Clinton than a vote for Trump. Remember, these voters backed Obama four years earlier.
So. Misogyny. Clinton rules. Biden would've won with the same message. There's nothing new here. Everything is the reason, but mostly the misogyny and Clinton's long history in the public eye and as the focus of a 30 year Republican negativity campaign against her that no other candidate will ever have again.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:27 AM on May 1, 2017 [38 favorites]
But what is civil war? It's a difficult question because civil war is impossible to describe. One might ask the same about birds. What are birds? We just don't know.
What is a horse shoe? What does a horse shoe do? Are there any horse socks? Is anybody listening to me?
posted by diogenes at 7:28 AM on May 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
What is a horse shoe? What does a horse shoe do? Are there any horse socks? Is anybody listening to me?
posted by diogenes at 7:28 AM on May 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
From the Priorities/WaPo focus group:
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 7:31 AM on May 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
Do you think Congressional Republicans' economic policies will favor the wealthy?Wow. I mean, the difference probably isn't statistically significant. But we're living in different realities, here. It shouldn't even be a contest.
Obama-Trump voters: 40%
Do you think Congressional Democrats' economic policies will favor the wealthy?
Obama-Trump voters: 42%
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 7:31 AM on May 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
Jonathan Coulton's tweeted response to Trump's Loyalty Day proclamation
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:33 AM on May 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:33 AM on May 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
tl;dr: Democratic Party needs to beat people over the head that it will push economic policies that help lower- and middle-class voters.
"Medicare For All"
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:34 AM on May 1, 2017 [15 favorites]
"Medicare For All"
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:34 AM on May 1, 2017 [15 favorites]
Do you think Congressional Democrats' economic policies will favor the wealthy?
I think this question is badly phrased. Surely it's much more important whether the policies will help the middle or working class. It's not a zero-sum game after all.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:35 AM on May 1, 2017
I think this question is badly phrased. Surely it's much more important whether the policies will help the middle or working class. It's not a zero-sum game after all.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:35 AM on May 1, 2017
The House won't let zombiecare die; Pence is leaning hard on the moderates and there is noise that they think they can get the votes. Call your Reps!
posted by emjaybee at 7:35 AM on May 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 7:35 AM on May 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
So much of this is the US and the rest of the world being taken on Donald's, narcissistic voyage of discovering (or being forced to discover) so much of the world he has had no interest in whatsoever.
All of this 'nobody knew' and 'people don't realize....civil' war is this narcissist telling us what he is learning about and what people are telling him. He has to transpose into 'nobody knew and people don't realize' because his brain won't let him function under the premise that if he didn't know this, or question this before then obviously no one else has done much with it. He has the best brain yadda yadda. This is narcissism.
Besides it being absolutely horrifying to watch in real time the attempt at educating a narcissistic dolt who has the power to wipe out humanity he is also providing and open window on everything he is being told and since he changes his tune day by day it's possible to track different conversations in almost real time. And depending on the words and phrases he uses it's also possible to make good guesses as to who is actually talking through his mouth at any given time.
I regularly switch from hide under the covers horrified and being totally fascinated by how much insight into what is going on behind the scenes that Donald's great and wonderful brain is letting the whole world in on.
Mostly though I have to just hide under the covers because holy hell it's surreal.
posted by Jalliah at 7:36 AM on May 1, 2017 [55 favorites]
All of this 'nobody knew' and 'people don't realize....civil' war is this narcissist telling us what he is learning about and what people are telling him. He has to transpose into 'nobody knew and people don't realize' because his brain won't let him function under the premise that if he didn't know this, or question this before then obviously no one else has done much with it. He has the best brain yadda yadda. This is narcissism.
Besides it being absolutely horrifying to watch in real time the attempt at educating a narcissistic dolt who has the power to wipe out humanity he is also providing and open window on everything he is being told and since he changes his tune day by day it's possible to track different conversations in almost real time. And depending on the words and phrases he uses it's also possible to make good guesses as to who is actually talking through his mouth at any given time.
I regularly switch from hide under the covers horrified and being totally fascinated by how much insight into what is going on behind the scenes that Donald's great and wonderful brain is letting the whole world in on.
Mostly though I have to just hide under the covers because holy hell it's surreal.
posted by Jalliah at 7:36 AM on May 1, 2017 [55 favorites]
NYT: Rodrigo Duterte Says He May Be Too Busy for White House Visit
Duterte reported to need to wash his hair tonight, sorry [/fake].
Seriously though, Trump is so radioactive that brutal murderous strongmen are like, "I can't make time for you" ?
posted by dis_integration at 7:44 AM on May 1, 2017 [17 favorites]
Duterte reported to need to wash his hair tonight, sorry [/fake].
Seriously though, Trump is so radioactive that brutal murderous strongmen are like, "I can't make time for you" ?
posted by dis_integration at 7:44 AM on May 1, 2017 [17 favorites]
I feel like we are overestimating the reason for his Civil War comments by ascribing them to his ignorance instead of seeing them as a dogwhistle to racists.
posted by bootlegpop at 7:49 AM on May 1, 2017 [31 favorites]
posted by bootlegpop at 7:49 AM on May 1, 2017 [31 favorites]
I expect politicians to really drive an economic wedge between younger and older voters, because the pressing economic concerns of the groups are so different. And the resentment is strong. So, it would be smart for the Dems to make a big play for younger voters, even if they have to spite Baby Boomers like me very visibly to do it. Hey DNC, be less traditional and more smart, k? (I can't even imagine a world so bad that woke younger voters would embrace Trump on social issues. Really don't want that to be the scenario.)
posted by puddledork at 7:52 AM on May 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by puddledork at 7:52 AM on May 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
I feel like we are overestimating the reason for his Civil War comments by ascribing them to his ignorance instead of seeing them as a dogwhistle to racists.
If this were a prepared speech, I'd agree with you, but in the battle between dumb and evil in Trump's head, always bet on dumb.
posted by Etrigan at 7:52 AM on May 1, 2017 [22 favorites]
If this were a prepared speech, I'd agree with you, but in the battle between dumb and evil in Trump's head, always bet on dumb.
posted by Etrigan at 7:52 AM on May 1, 2017 [22 favorites]
T.D. Strange, thanks for making that point. I agree wholeheartedly that misogyny was real and significant, and it made the 30-year smear campaign all the more potent.
I think the authors were arguing that the vote against Clinton was because the Dems didn't clearly and sufficiently make themselves the party of economic change. (the results Jpfed cited.)
Now, would the voters have gotten that message if Bernie or Biden or whatever generic male was the nominee instead of a woman? Possibly, even probably, but the focus groups don't go there (despite the capability to break out opinions by gender) -- as I said, because Priorities USA has, well, its priorities, which are pushing support for progressive economic policies and social programs. So it's a little disappointing. I posted mostly because a) I'm kind of a policy wonk due to grad school and b) I appreciated the breakout and comparison of Obama-to-Trump voters vs. dropout Obama voters, which I hadn't seen before.
posted by martin q blank at 7:53 AM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
I think the authors were arguing that the vote against Clinton was because the Dems didn't clearly and sufficiently make themselves the party of economic change. (the results Jpfed cited.)
Now, would the voters have gotten that message if Bernie or Biden or whatever generic male was the nominee instead of a woman? Possibly, even probably, but the focus groups don't go there (despite the capability to break out opinions by gender) -- as I said, because Priorities USA has, well, its priorities, which are pushing support for progressive economic policies and social programs. So it's a little disappointing. I posted mostly because a) I'm kind of a policy wonk due to grad school and b) I appreciated the breakout and comparison of Obama-to-Trump voters vs. dropout Obama voters, which I hadn't seen before.
posted by martin q blank at 7:53 AM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
I think the authors were arguing that the vote against Clinton was because the Dems didn't clearly and sufficiently make themselves the party of economic change. ... as I said, because Priorities USA has, well, its priorities, which are pushing support for progressive economic policies and social programs.
Has anyone with a pet cause come out and said, "I thought it would be my thing that was the real reason Clinton lost, but then I looked at the numbers and, huh, I guess not."?
posted by Etrigan at 7:55 AM on May 1, 2017 [20 favorites]
Has anyone with a pet cause come out and said, "I thought it would be my thing that was the real reason Clinton lost, but then I looked at the numbers and, huh, I guess not."?
posted by Etrigan at 7:55 AM on May 1, 2017 [20 favorites]
One nice wrinkle to the whole Republican talking point about how the Civil War was actually about "states' rights" is that it's true in the exact opposite sense than they intend.
What were the crises facing the South? Well, long term they had a demographic problem; the Midwest and West weren't exactly prime plantation territory, and slavery was increasingly a marginal institution inside the US. That wasn't going to kill them immediately, though. What was going to give them grief short-term was Northern recalcitrance in providing the necessary assistance to keep their increasingly rebellious slaves at bay. All the Fugitive Slave Laws and Dred Scott decisions in the world wouldn't stop Northerners from shrugging and mounting a half-assed search when your personal slave runs away during a summer up north. All the fiery denunciations in the world wouldn't stop Northern politicians from exercising their freedom of speech to declare John Brown a hero. Both of these are states' rights issues, alright, but the rights in question are the rights of theNorthern states to manage their affairs the way they see fit.
Shoving slavery into a states' rights mold is, AFAICT, a latter-20th-century development caused by assuming that since desegregation was a Federal mandate, abolitionism must've been too.
posted by jackbishop at 7:57 AM on May 1, 2017 [24 favorites]
What were the crises facing the South? Well, long term they had a demographic problem; the Midwest and West weren't exactly prime plantation territory, and slavery was increasingly a marginal institution inside the US. That wasn't going to kill them immediately, though. What was going to give them grief short-term was Northern recalcitrance in providing the necessary assistance to keep their increasingly rebellious slaves at bay. All the Fugitive Slave Laws and Dred Scott decisions in the world wouldn't stop Northerners from shrugging and mounting a half-assed search when your personal slave runs away during a summer up north. All the fiery denunciations in the world wouldn't stop Northern politicians from exercising their freedom of speech to declare John Brown a hero. Both of these are states' rights issues, alright, but the rights in question are the rights of theNorthern states to manage their affairs the way they see fit.
Shoving slavery into a states' rights mold is, AFAICT, a latter-20th-century development caused by assuming that since desegregation was a Federal mandate, abolitionism must've been too.
posted by jackbishop at 7:57 AM on May 1, 2017 [24 favorites]
How can anyone question the cause of the Civil War? Marvel just made a whole movie about it last year!
In conclusion, Tony Stark is a land of contrasts.
posted by Servo5678 at 8:01 AM on May 1, 2017 [17 favorites]
In conclusion, Tony Stark is a land of contrasts.
posted by Servo5678 at 8:01 AM on May 1, 2017 [17 favorites]
What is a horse shoe ? What does a horse shoe do? Are there any horse socks? Is anybody listening to me?
You fools had your chance to elect Lincoln Chafee
posted by thelonius at 8:02 AM on May 1, 2017 [12 favorites]
You fools had your chance to elect Lincoln Chafee
posted by thelonius at 8:02 AM on May 1, 2017 [12 favorites]
One of the things people never seem to bring up when they talk about our huge, beautiful president is that he is such a great question-asker.
To be fair, it's hard to top "is our children learning?"
posted by entropicamericana at 8:04 AM on May 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
To be fair, it's hard to top "is our children learning?"
posted by entropicamericana at 8:04 AM on May 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
I feel like we are overestimating the reason for his Civil War comments by ascribing them to his ignorance instead of seeing them as a dogwhistle to racists.
It's both. Call it an accidental dogwhistle. This isn't Trump speaking this is him recalling some conversation he had about the 'civil war' likely with one of the hardcore racists he has advising him or has appointed. They were 'questioning', they were trying to explain something to him or they were directly working at getting their racist views into his brain. I guarantee that if he had had a different conversation about the Civil War from a non racist dogwhistling viewpoint he would not have said what he said. It wouldn't even be a question in his mind in the first place.
posted by Jalliah at 8:04 AM on May 1, 2017 [33 favorites]
It's both. Call it an accidental dogwhistle. This isn't Trump speaking this is him recalling some conversation he had about the 'civil war' likely with one of the hardcore racists he has advising him or has appointed. They were 'questioning', they were trying to explain something to him or they were directly working at getting their racist views into his brain. I guarantee that if he had had a different conversation about the Civil War from a non racist dogwhistling viewpoint he would not have said what he said. It wouldn't even be a question in his mind in the first place.
posted by Jalliah at 8:04 AM on May 1, 2017 [33 favorites]
Seriously though, Trump is so radioactive that brutal murderous strongmen are like, "I can't make time for you" ?
It's probably more likely that he is worried about getting turned over to a international court once he is out of his country or that he fears a coup while out of town.
posted by srboisvert at 8:10 AM on May 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
It's probably more likely that he is worried about getting turned over to a international court once he is out of his country or that he fears a coup while out of town.
posted by srboisvert at 8:10 AM on May 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
“It’s a little hard to get your mind around everything this bill does, because there’s almost no area of financial regulation it doesn’t touch,” says Marcus Stanley, policy director for Americans for Financial Reform. “There’s a bunch of very radical stuff in this bill, and it goes way beyond repealing Dodd-Frank.”
It will be interesting to see how some multinational banks react. There are an awful lot of large Canadian-US banks these days that have Canada's serious sober regulation on one side of the border and will soon have an even less regulated situation on the US side.
It will be pretty telling if they decide to pull back or to roll the dice.
posted by srboisvert at 8:16 AM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
It will be interesting to see how some multinational banks react. There are an awful lot of large Canadian-US banks these days that have Canada's serious sober regulation on one side of the border and will soon have an even less regulated situation on the US side.
It will be pretty telling if they decide to pull back or to roll the dice.
posted by srboisvert at 8:16 AM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
chris24: People Across This State Put On Tutus In A Show Of Love, Tolerance, & Acceptance
For a bit more context, here's a new post I made about (former*) Wyoming resident Larry "Sissy" Goodwin, a Vietnam veteran, retired professor and well-known crossdresser, who was referenced by Republican Sen. Mike Enzi when asked about LGBTQ rights in Wyoming at a high school Q&A session. Enzi thought it was a good idea to share an anecdote about a man being surprised at the fact that he gets beat up for “wearing a tutu to the bar.”
* Former only because Goodwin and his wife moved to Oregon back in 2015 - Sissy is still alive, and he received an apology from Enzi after Mike got national attention for that victim-blaming comment.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:31 AM on May 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
For a bit more context, here's a new post I made about (former*) Wyoming resident Larry "Sissy" Goodwin, a Vietnam veteran, retired professor and well-known crossdresser, who was referenced by Republican Sen. Mike Enzi when asked about LGBTQ rights in Wyoming at a high school Q&A session. Enzi thought it was a good idea to share an anecdote about a man being surprised at the fact that he gets beat up for “wearing a tutu to the bar.”
* Former only because Goodwin and his wife moved to Oregon back in 2015 - Sissy is still alive, and he received an apology from Enzi after Mike got national attention for that victim-blaming comment.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:31 AM on May 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
Joey Michaels: Every super villain need his theme song.
Don't you besmirch Al Wilson's northern soul song like that!
Seriously, fuck Trump for taking a trite and tired poem and making it into xenophobic hate-speech.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:35 AM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Don't you besmirch Al Wilson's northern soul song like that!
Seriously, fuck Trump for taking a trite and tired poem and making it into xenophobic hate-speech.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:35 AM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
POLL: The Civil War, if you think about it, why? People don't ask that question, but why was there the Civil War? Why could that one not have been worked out?
□ Confederate flag clearly aesthetically superior
□ President Jackson too dead to do anything but be really angry
□ Rarely was the question asked, is our peoples warring?
□ Lack of presidential Twitter account
□ Unknown but it's probably something to do with our nation's inner cities
□ Jared Kushner not yet invented
□ President Davis clearly desperate to get something done in first 100 days
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:37 AM on May 1, 2017 [52 favorites]
□ Confederate flag clearly aesthetically superior
□ President Jackson too dead to do anything but be really angry
□ Rarely was the question asked, is our peoples warring?
□ Lack of presidential Twitter account
□ Unknown but it's probably something to do with our nation's inner cities
□ Jared Kushner not yet invented
□ President Davis clearly desperate to get something done in first 100 days
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:37 AM on May 1, 2017 [52 favorites]
One nice wrinkle to the whole Republican talking point about how the Civil War was actually about 'states' rights' is that it's true in the exact opposite sense than they intend.
You already mentioned the Fugitive Slave Act, which allowed the Federal government to capture runaway slaves in free states and return them to the South, overriding the free states' personal liberty laws. So yeah, the exact opposite of "states rights."
Several states cited non-enforcement of the Fugitive Slave Act as a reason for seceding.
Also, new Confederate states had to allow slavery under the Confederate Constitution. They wouldn't have the right to be free states.
The Confederates also inserted references to God and cut off funding to the Post Office in their Constitution. The past is never dead. It's not even past.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:49 AM on May 1, 2017 [51 favorites]
Donald Trump blames constitution for chaos of his first 100 days (The Guardian, April 30, 2017) -- The president is learning the limits of power
From Trumpiteers proclaiming that "Finally, a president upholds his oath and defends the Constitution against its enemies, domestic as well as foreign," (American Greatness, January 22nd, 2017), to almost sorta working at being presidential for nearly 100 days and he says "fuck that old shit, burn it up and make me god-emperor!"
Or is he going to cross out out the parts of the constitution he doesn't like, like the personal Bible of a Cafeteria Christian who doesn't want to turn the other cheek, or treat their neighbor as themselves?
Also, this is the dude who HAS THE DECK STACKED IN HIS FAVOR. Republican control of House, Senate and the fooking White House, what else does he want? Oh, now the great deal-maker is getting tired ofwinning making deals where he can't bully the other party? Boo hoo.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:58 AM on May 1, 2017 [49 favorites]
In an interview with Fox News to mark the 100-day mark, he declared himself “disappointed” with congressional Republicans, despite his many “great relationships” with them.WUT.
He blamed the constitutional checks and balances built in to US governance. “It’s a very rough system,” he said. “It’s an archaic system … It’s really a bad thing for the country.”
From Trumpiteers proclaiming that "Finally, a president upholds his oath and defends the Constitution against its enemies, domestic as well as foreign," (American Greatness, January 22nd, 2017), to almost sorta working at being presidential for nearly 100 days and he says "fuck that old shit, burn it up and make me god-emperor!"
Or is he going to cross out out the parts of the constitution he doesn't like, like the personal Bible of a Cafeteria Christian who doesn't want to turn the other cheek, or treat their neighbor as themselves?
Also, this is the dude who HAS THE DECK STACKED IN HIS FAVOR. Republican control of House, Senate and the fooking White House, what else does he want? Oh, now the great deal-maker is getting tired of
posted by filthy light thief at 8:58 AM on May 1, 2017 [49 favorites]
People don't ask that question, but why is there a constitution?
posted by diogenes at 9:02 AM on May 1, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 9:02 AM on May 1, 2017 [18 favorites]
Confederate flag clearly aesthetically superior
Which Confederate flag?
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What you're probably thinking of as "the Confederate flag" was never a flag of the Confederacy.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:03 AM on May 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
The percentage of Republicans who see Russia as an unfriendly state has fallen from 82% in 2014 to 41% now, according to a CNN/ORC poll.
This echoes 2010 and the sudden drop in Miami Heat fans thinking that LeBron James is overrated
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:06 AM on May 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
This echoes 2010 and the sudden drop in Miami Heat fans thinking that LeBron James is overrated
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:06 AM on May 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
The Civil War, if you think about it, why? People don't ask that question, but why was there the Civil War? Why could that one not have been worked out?
I started to write a satirical comment about how no doubt he was wondering why James Buchanan's 1861 Peace Conference / the Crittendon Compromise did not succeed, but then I started bitterly laughing when I remembered this man is in charge of nuclear weapons and could not continue.
posted by corb at 9:08 AM on May 1, 2017 [13 favorites]
I started to write a satirical comment about how no doubt he was wondering why James Buchanan's 1861 Peace Conference / the Crittendon Compromise did not succeed, but then I started bitterly laughing when I remembered this man is in charge of nuclear weapons and could not continue.
posted by corb at 9:08 AM on May 1, 2017 [13 favorites]
CBS News thing in the local noon news just said Congress' budget bill would be "Trump's biggest accomplishment to date."
The media is worse than useless.
posted by dirigibleman at 9:08 AM on May 1, 2017 [17 favorites]
The media is worse than useless.
posted by dirigibleman at 9:08 AM on May 1, 2017 [17 favorites]
Really, would it be so bad if he were a dictator? American Greatness says no. I think.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:10 AM on May 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
To be sure, Trump manipulated the media in much the same way savvy dictators do. Also, he is loud and he loves gold. And he doesn’t tolerate nonsense from the “lying press.” Where I was raised, though, what Trump has been doing with the media is called standing up for yourself. To the media, however, a Republican that stands up for himself is “dangerous.”Yeah, you may want to stop there, it's not going to get any better or more coherent.
...
The Ninth Circuit demanded of Trump that parts of his executive order be rewritten. Rather than waste more time and energy challenging the ruling, the Trump Administration took its licks, and made the necessary changes. I can’t seem to remember Mao turning to his lawyer, rather than his gun, when his enemies successfully opposed him. Then again, my mind is soup after years of watching “The Daily Show with Jon Stewart.”
...
In 100 days, President Trump has returned more power to the people and their elected representatives in government than has any president in the last 70 years. Because of Trump’s unwillingness to ignore the bizarre court rulings against his executive order on immigration; thanks to Trump’s respect for the legislative branch (when, frankly, none should be given to Congress); and thanks to Trump’s willingness to buck his own supporters in the name of doing what’s right in foreign policy, he is helping us make America Great Again.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:10 AM on May 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
Why are we quoting American Greatness here again? Isn't that an astroturf party of the Trump campaign written by a Guiliani speechwriter? Is 'Trump Campaign Supports Trump' a thing we should care about?
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:22 AM on May 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:22 AM on May 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
And the rest of the masthead consists of wingnut welfare full timers.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:26 AM on May 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:26 AM on May 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
In 100 days, President Trump has returned more power to the people and their elected representatives in government than has any president in the last 70 years.
I've figured it out. There is no Donald Trump, and there never was. There is only what we want him to be, the projection of our collective psychosis onto some kind of empty orange matrix.
Also, the real treasure was friendship.
posted by Behemoth at 9:30 AM on May 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
I've figured it out. There is no Donald Trump, and there never was. There is only what we want him to be, the projection of our collective psychosis onto some kind of empty orange matrix.
Also, the real treasure was friendship.
posted by Behemoth at 9:30 AM on May 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
As this election has demonstrated with nightmarish clarity, it means a lot to the world how Americans are doing. If you get a proto-fascist madman for president, it will affect our wellbeing in many ways. (This is my excuse for being meddlesome).
Without reading any of the rest of the thread after this, 1) DUH! and 2) I'm sorry about this president and 3) Americans, DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE FIGHTING FOR. It's more than just you or the country. If we lose and things suck, it hurts a lot more people than us.
If they can afford to collectively plunk down the trillon-dollar chips on things like credit default swaps and collateralized debt obligations, they can afford to take part in making sure that people can at least get by if entire extended families live together during the parts of the cycle where it all goes to shit.
I like how people keep talking as if the Republicans and the rich aren't bloodthirsty death cult whose only joy is pain, yours, theirs, all pain, gaping maw of misery and mayhem until all is a boot stomping on a human face forever and ever and ever down here we float etc. Seriously we had the Roman Empire then the Dark Ages we had Pax Mongolica then the centuries of illiterate nomadism adcross their realms we had the industrial and computer revolution...do you think we reigned in the hellish death worship because we didn't. Yawning maw of death.
I don't know about another OKC but a guy in San Diego just shot 8 non-whites and committed suicide by cop.
we float
It's been said before, but he's a Chinese Room with a personality disorder.
and float
Republicans are marching ahead with a mammoth 593-page bill to deregulate Wall Street
Spearheaded by House Finance Chair Rep. Jeb Hensarling (R-TX), the Choice Act begins by throwing out much of the banking oversight passed under President Obama’s administration, mostly through the Dodd-Frank act signed in 2010. But it goes further than that, rolling back oversight in a way that could dramatically exacerbate the likelihood of another financial crisis, according to experts in financial regulation.
“It’s a little hard to get your mind around everything this bill does, because there’s almost no area of financial regulation it doesn’t touch,” says Marcus Stanley, policy director for Americans for Financial Reform. “There’s a bunch of very radical stuff in this bill, and it goes way beyond repealing Dodd-Frank.”
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:05 PM on May 1 [5 favorites +] [!]
Yeah they wait until outrage fatigue for this FLOAT WE FLOAT
From the American Greatness article upthread: "After 100 days of the dreaded dictator what can we Trump supporters say to our fellow Americans? Do we apologize? Do we hang our heads in shame? No! We turn to our Leftist friends and say, “you’re welcome.”...Rather than acting the part of a dictator, Trump is the ultimate democrat. In a way, Trump is like Napoleon in reverse. When Napoleon rose to power, he legitimized his coronation by crowning himself emperor as the Pope looked on. Thus, Napoleon stood above all. In Trump—the Left’s newest fascist bogeyman—we have a leader who has taken the vast powers of his office and slowly started returning it to where it belongs. Trump is taking the imperial crown from atop his head, cutting it into equal parts, and handing each component to the other two branches of government—all while standing eye-to-eye with the legislative and judicial branches.
Some tyrant.
To my Leftist friends, I say this: If Trump is truly a tyrant as you believe, he’s not very good at it. So, please, quit whining and focus on the future.
WE FLOAT
posted by saysthis at 9:30 AM on May 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
Without reading any of the rest of the thread after this, 1) DUH! and 2) I'm sorry about this president and 3) Americans, DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE FIGHTING FOR. It's more than just you or the country. If we lose and things suck, it hurts a lot more people than us.
If they can afford to collectively plunk down the trillon-dollar chips on things like credit default swaps and collateralized debt obligations, they can afford to take part in making sure that people can at least get by if entire extended families live together during the parts of the cycle where it all goes to shit.
I like how people keep talking as if the Republicans and the rich aren't bloodthirsty death cult whose only joy is pain, yours, theirs, all pain, gaping maw of misery and mayhem until all is a boot stomping on a human face forever and ever and ever down here we float etc. Seriously we had the Roman Empire then the Dark Ages we had Pax Mongolica then the centuries of illiterate nomadism adcross their realms we had the industrial and computer revolution...do you think we reigned in the hellish death worship because we didn't. Yawning maw of death.
I don't know about another OKC but a guy in San Diego just shot 8 non-whites and committed suicide by cop.
we float
It's been said before, but he's a Chinese Room with a personality disorder.
and float
Republicans are marching ahead with a mammoth 593-page bill to deregulate Wall Street
Spearheaded by House Finance Chair Rep. Jeb Hensarling (R-TX), the Choice Act begins by throwing out much of the banking oversight passed under President Obama’s administration, mostly through the Dodd-Frank act signed in 2010. But it goes further than that, rolling back oversight in a way that could dramatically exacerbate the likelihood of another financial crisis, according to experts in financial regulation.
“It’s a little hard to get your mind around everything this bill does, because there’s almost no area of financial regulation it doesn’t touch,” says Marcus Stanley, policy director for Americans for Financial Reform. “There’s a bunch of very radical stuff in this bill, and it goes way beyond repealing Dodd-Frank.”
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:05 PM on May 1 [5 favorites +] [!]
Yeah they wait until outrage fatigue for this FLOAT WE FLOAT
From the American Greatness article upthread: "After 100 days of the dreaded dictator what can we Trump supporters say to our fellow Americans? Do we apologize? Do we hang our heads in shame? No! We turn to our Leftist friends and say, “you’re welcome.”...Rather than acting the part of a dictator, Trump is the ultimate democrat. In a way, Trump is like Napoleon in reverse. When Napoleon rose to power, he legitimized his coronation by crowning himself emperor as the Pope looked on. Thus, Napoleon stood above all. In Trump—the Left’s newest fascist bogeyman—we have a leader who has taken the vast powers of his office and slowly started returning it to where it belongs. Trump is taking the imperial crown from atop his head, cutting it into equal parts, and handing each component to the other two branches of government—all while standing eye-to-eye with the legislative and judicial branches.
Some tyrant.
To my Leftist friends, I say this: If Trump is truly a tyrant as you believe, he’s not very good at it. So, please, quit whining and focus on the future.
WE FLOAT
posted by saysthis at 9:30 AM on May 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
T.D. Strange: Why are we quoting American Greatness here again?
I was hoping to find that they had some issue with Trump getting upset at being limited by the Constitution. Instead, I found that convoluted mess.
Sorry about pulling that in here.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:31 AM on May 1, 2017
I was hoping to find that they had some issue with Trump getting upset at being limited by the Constitution. Instead, I found that convoluted mess.
Sorry about pulling that in here.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:31 AM on May 1, 2017
The new FY2017 budget bill is seriously the best news of the past 102 days!
WaPo: Eight ways Trump got rolled in his first budget negotiation
Highlights include:
posted by Westringia F. at 9:38 AM on May 1, 2017 [57 favorites]
WaPo: Eight ways Trump got rolled in his first budget negotiation
Highlights include:
- Explicit restrictions against using appropriations to build a border wall;
- Big boosts for biomedical & energy research: NIH up by $2B, ARPA-E up by $15M;
- Only a small trim (1%) to EPA, with no staff cuts;
- Planned Parenthood funding preserved at current levels.
posted by Westringia F. at 9:38 AM on May 1, 2017 [57 favorites]
Evan Osnos has a piece in the New Yorker discussing the ways in which Trump could be removed from office. We've gone over this material again and again, but it's good to see it discussed in depth in a major publication.
How Trump Could Get Fired
posted by Surely This at 9:42 AM on May 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
How Trump Could Get Fired
posted by Surely This at 9:42 AM on May 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
For those who don't want to waste their mental energy on Douchehat, apparently he has no problem with neo-Fascist xenophobia per se, he just doesn't like incompetent neo-Fascist xenophobics, like Trump. Le Pen knows what she's doing, so she's totally A-OK.
So he's saying she can make the trains run on time.
posted by JackFlash at 9:43 AM on May 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
So he's saying she can make the trains run on time.
posted by JackFlash at 9:43 AM on May 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
Also, good news: Trump: Slash the health research budget. Congress: No.
Lawmakers increased the agency’s budget by $2 billion for the second year in a row.
Cthulu is trying to devour the government, but it's choking. We are bigger than the deathlords.
posted by saysthis at 9:45 AM on May 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
Lawmakers increased the agency’s budget by $2 billion for the second year in a row.
Cthulu is trying to devour the government, but it's choking. We are bigger than the deathlords.
posted by saysthis at 9:45 AM on May 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
So he's saying she can make the trains run on time.
It's France. The best you can do is make sure the rail worker strikes start on time.
posted by uosuaq at 9:49 AM on May 1, 2017 [16 favorites]
It's France. The best you can do is make sure the rail worker strikes start on time.
posted by uosuaq at 9:49 AM on May 1, 2017 [16 favorites]
FB Live link to sit-in in Tx. Gov. Abbot's office to demand he not sign the anti-sanctuary bill. I assume all these folks will be hustled out and/or arrested eventually, but I'm proud of them.
posted by emjaybee at 9:51 AM on May 1, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 9:51 AM on May 1, 2017 [17 favorites]
Even 20 years ago it was super common that women didn't work outside the home, and even now I'd say there's a healthy portion of women who don't or who only started doing so in the last ten years. But if they go back 35 years and average them, then it doesn't matter if a woman started working in the last ten years, if she didn't work for the 25 before that it still looks like she's sunk.
What you are missing is that Social Security provides spousal benefits. Even if one spouse never worked a day in their life, they receive an additional 50% of the working spouse's benefit in their own name. So together, the two spouses receive 150% of the working spouse's benefit, even if one never worked.
If the working spouse dies first, then the non-working spouse's benefit increases to 100% for their remaining life.
If one spouse only works part-time, then they will receive either 100% of their own earned benefit or else 50% of their full-time spouse's benefit, whichever is larger.
posted by JackFlash at 9:52 AM on May 1, 2017 [18 favorites]
What you are missing is that Social Security provides spousal benefits. Even if one spouse never worked a day in their life, they receive an additional 50% of the working spouse's benefit in their own name. So together, the two spouses receive 150% of the working spouse's benefit, even if one never worked.
If the working spouse dies first, then the non-working spouse's benefit increases to 100% for their remaining life.
If one spouse only works part-time, then they will receive either 100% of their own earned benefit or else 50% of their full-time spouse's benefit, whichever is larger.
posted by JackFlash at 9:52 AM on May 1, 2017 [18 favorites]
Rodrigo Duterte Says He May Be Too Busy for White House Visit
He's washing his hair that day
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:03 AM on May 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
He's washing his hair that day
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:03 AM on May 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
Trump Knows Jack about Andrew Jackson. SAD!
Today we hear ‘nationalism’ used as a byword for xenophobia, racism and militarism. Jackson had his mix of each. But Jackson thought the crisis, what Calhoun was doing could not have been more important. He actually wanted to march an army down to South Carolina and hang Calhoun. To the extent Jackson knew about the Civil War and was “really angry” about it, he was really angry at the Southern planter aristocrats who would later start the Civil War. He was ready to go to war in 1832-33 to vindicate the union and popular democracy – two concepts that to him were basically inseparable. In other words, if we take Trump’s comments on their own terms he’s completely wrong. Jackson thought the issue couldn’t be more important and he was ready to go to war and crush the nullifiers.
...
Trump’s claim in this interview that the Civil War didn’t need to happen and could have been worked out is rooted in Southern pro-slavery revisionism (and its descendent, contemporary neo-Confederacy) and more recently in the intellectuals who were and are the seedbed of what we now call the alt-right. Both Jackson and Calhoun were slaveholders. But slavery and Southern sectionalism were Calhoun’s guidestars. The crisis of the early 1830s was his effort to draw a line, a bastardized constitutional line to protect slavery and Southern power in what he accurately believed was an inevitable conflict. On this front, in addition to his narrow misunderstanding of Jackson’s feelings ‘about the Civil War’, Trump is far more in the Calhounite tradition than the Jacksonian one. Indeed, it’s from the descendants of Calhounism that Trump draws his greatest political punch.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:04 AM on May 1, 2017 [13 favorites]
Today we hear ‘nationalism’ used as a byword for xenophobia, racism and militarism. Jackson had his mix of each. But Jackson thought the crisis, what Calhoun was doing could not have been more important. He actually wanted to march an army down to South Carolina and hang Calhoun. To the extent Jackson knew about the Civil War and was “really angry” about it, he was really angry at the Southern planter aristocrats who would later start the Civil War. He was ready to go to war in 1832-33 to vindicate the union and popular democracy – two concepts that to him were basically inseparable. In other words, if we take Trump’s comments on their own terms he’s completely wrong. Jackson thought the issue couldn’t be more important and he was ready to go to war and crush the nullifiers.
...
Trump’s claim in this interview that the Civil War didn’t need to happen and could have been worked out is rooted in Southern pro-slavery revisionism (and its descendent, contemporary neo-Confederacy) and more recently in the intellectuals who were and are the seedbed of what we now call the alt-right. Both Jackson and Calhoun were slaveholders. But slavery and Southern sectionalism were Calhoun’s guidestars. The crisis of the early 1830s was his effort to draw a line, a bastardized constitutional line to protect slavery and Southern power in what he accurately believed was an inevitable conflict. On this front, in addition to his narrow misunderstanding of Jackson’s feelings ‘about the Civil War’, Trump is far more in the Calhounite tradition than the Jacksonian one. Indeed, it’s from the descendants of Calhounism that Trump draws his greatest political punch.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:04 AM on May 1, 2017 [13 favorites]
Happy to report that the federal budget also includes:
- Full funding for the Institute of Museum and Library Services (up by $1 million, see pg. 55-56 here)
- A $2 million increase to both the National Endowment for the Arts and the Humanities endowment (source)
- Full funding for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting (source)
The Civil War, if you think about it, why? People don't ask that question, but why was there the Civil War? Why could that one not have been worked out?
Also, people had been trying to "work that out" since 1820, if not since the very fucking beginning
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:08 AM on May 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Also, people had been trying to "work that out" since 1820, if not since the very fucking beginning
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:08 AM on May 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Planned Parenthood funding preserved at current levels.
Although it should be noted that last month Congress passed a law allowing states to divert Planned Parenthood federal funds to other organizations. Fifteen (Republican) states have done this so far. The funds generally go to conservative forced birth organizations.
The law passed the Senate 51-50, requiring Mike Pence to step in as tie-breaker.
posted by JackFlash at 10:08 AM on May 1, 2017 [29 favorites]
Although it should be noted that last month Congress passed a law allowing states to divert Planned Parenthood federal funds to other organizations. Fifteen (Republican) states have done this so far. The funds generally go to conservative forced birth organizations.
The law passed the Senate 51-50, requiring Mike Pence to step in as tie-breaker.
posted by JackFlash at 10:08 AM on May 1, 2017 [29 favorites]
Producers IMG Original Content and Carole Shorenstein Hays (Fences, Caroline or Change, Doubt, Take Me Out, Fun Home, A Doll's House, Part 2) announced today that Academy Award-winning filmmaker, best-selling author, and political icon, Michael Moore will bring his thought-provoking, controversial fare to Broadway in The Terms of My Surrender, his theatrical debut. Directed by Tony Award-winner, Michael Mayer (Spring Awakening, American Idiot, Hedwig and the Angry Inch), the limited 12-week engagement will begin previews at Broadway's Belasco Theatre (111 W 44th Street) on Friday, July 28, 2017 with an official opening night set for Thursday, August 10, 2017.
So, the question is posed: "Can a Broadway show take down a sitting President?"
Well, it's time to find out. (press release)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:13 AM on May 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
So, the question is posed: "Can a Broadway show take down a sitting President?"
Well, it's time to find out. (press release)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:13 AM on May 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm finding it a bit odd to keep reading comments about "now the rest of the world will not respect us any longerto Lead The Way!" From a European perspective, we never did. I cannot remember a time in my life when "American" wasn't a shorthand for boorish, aggressive, shortsighted, and egocentric. American Exceptionalism has always been distasteful, deluded and off-putting. Trump is just confirming what we knew all along was lurking under the surface, and damn right we're not going to forget it.
posted by Cheerwell Maker at 10:14 AM on May 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Cheerwell Maker at 10:14 AM on May 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
> So, the question is posed: "Can a Broadway show take down a sitting President?"
Trick question -- John Oliver EVISCERATED said President quite some time ago, so he's not sitting, he's lying on the floor of the Oval Office surrounded by his entrails.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:16 AM on May 1, 2017 [11 favorites]
Trick question -- John Oliver EVISCERATED said President quite some time ago, so he's not sitting, he's lying on the floor of the Oval Office surrounded by his entrails.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:16 AM on May 1, 2017 [11 favorites]
NYT: Rodrigo Duterte Says He May Be Too Busy for White House Visit
Duterte reported to need to wash his hair tonight, sorry [/fake].
Seriously though, Trump is so radioactive that brutal murderous strongmen are like, "I can't make time for you" ?
Dang it, you preemptively stole my joke
And I read the damn thread, too
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:17 AM on May 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
Duterte reported to need to wash his hair tonight, sorry [/fake].
Seriously though, Trump is so radioactive that brutal murderous strongmen are like, "I can't make time for you" ?
Dang it, you preemptively stole my joke
And I read the damn thread, too
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:17 AM on May 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
CNN: Trump administration ending Michelle Obama's girls education program
posted by zachlipton at 10:23 AM on May 1, 2017 [91 favorites]
The "Let Girls Learn" program, which she and President Barack Obama started in 2015 to facilitate educational opportunities for adolescent girls in developing countries, will cease operation immediately, according to an internal document obtained by CNN.Let's have a big round of applause for Ivanka's advocacy of women's empowerment here. This is the most petty, spiteful administration.
While aspects of the initiative's programming will continue, employees have been told to stop using the "Let Girls Learn" name and were told that, as a program unto itself, "Let Girls Learn" was ending.
posted by zachlipton at 10:23 AM on May 1, 2017 [91 favorites]
Another interesting WaPo story today: Why did Trump win? New research by Democrats offers a worrisome answer.
Probably best to go straight to the study's findings (pdf hosted on Post site), then read the Post story, which, to its credit, isn't just a rehash of the results but includes an interview with the group's director. (posted by martin q blank)
What really stands out in that survey is how incredibly stupid those voters are. Excuse my language, but really? A plurality of these people believed that Trump would:
Protect Social Security for senior citizens
Protect Medicare for senior citizens
Create good paying jobs for American workers
Make sure that all Americans have access to affordable health insurance
Clean up corruption in gov't
Crack down on the outsourcing of American jobs
Make sure that wealthy pay their fair share of taxes
Keep Wall Street in check
Really?
I know that good manners and saintly examples say we should forgive these people that they are ignorant for they know not what they are doing, but karma law says they deserve to be stripped of their healthcare and Social Security and have their homes taken away by unregulated bankers. And be reborn as worms when they die.
posted by mumimor at 10:26 AM on May 1, 2017 [25 favorites]
Probably best to go straight to the study's findings (pdf hosted on Post site), then read the Post story, which, to its credit, isn't just a rehash of the results but includes an interview with the group's director. (posted by martin q blank)
What really stands out in that survey is how incredibly stupid those voters are. Excuse my language, but really? A plurality of these people believed that Trump would:
Protect Social Security for senior citizens
Protect Medicare for senior citizens
Create good paying jobs for American workers
Make sure that all Americans have access to affordable health insurance
Clean up corruption in gov't
Crack down on the outsourcing of American jobs
Make sure that wealthy pay their fair share of taxes
Keep Wall Street in check
Really?
I know that good manners and saintly examples say we should forgive these people that they are ignorant for they know not what they are doing, but karma law says they deserve to be stripped of their healthcare and Social Security and have their homes taken away by unregulated bankers. And be reborn as worms when they die.
posted by mumimor at 10:26 AM on May 1, 2017 [25 favorites]
I mean had Andrew Jackson been a little bit later you wouldn’t have had the Civil War. He was a very tough person, but he had a big heart.
Yep, ol' Big Heart Jackson. That's why it was called the Trail of Lollipops!
posted by kirkaracha at 10:27 AM on May 1, 2017 [16 favorites]
Let's have a big round of applause for Ivanka's advocacy of women's empowerment here. This is the most petty, spiteful administration.
#thanksivanka
posted by galaxy rise at 10:28 AM on May 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
#thanksivanka
posted by galaxy rise at 10:28 AM on May 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
After reading way too many "Why Democrats lost" and "Why people voted for Trump" articles I've unfortunately come to the conclusion that far too many Americans are racists and even more are deeply ignorant and/or stupid. I don't know how you deal with that. A deeply ignorant populace is a grave danger to the health of a democracy.
posted by Justinian at 10:31 AM on May 1, 2017 [37 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 10:31 AM on May 1, 2017 [37 favorites]
FFS, NYT is just going to keep running these "Inside the Mind of the White Male Trump Voter" pieces forever, aren't they?
Dear NYT: I live in Western PA, and I run into these suburban/rural Western PA jagoffs you're interviewing all of the time. But did you know that there are also electoral votes in other parts of Pennsylvania, including the cities? Not only that, but there are also other states outside of Pennsylvania, and even ones outside of the Rust Belt, and -- get this! -- there are electoral votes in those places, too!
No need to thank me for this scorching hot tip -- just do your fucking job.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:33 AM on May 1, 2017 [35 favorites]
Dear NYT: I live in Western PA, and I run into these suburban/rural Western PA jagoffs you're interviewing all of the time. But did you know that there are also electoral votes in other parts of Pennsylvania, including the cities? Not only that, but there are also other states outside of Pennsylvania, and even ones outside of the Rust Belt, and -- get this! -- there are electoral votes in those places, too!
No need to thank me for this scorching hot tip -- just do your fucking job.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:33 AM on May 1, 2017 [35 favorites]
Trump is just confirming what we knew all along was lurking under the surface, and damn right we're not going to forget it.
C'mon, there's no way you knew it was this bad!
posted by diogenes at 10:33 AM on May 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
C'mon, there's no way you knew it was this bad!
posted by diogenes at 10:33 AM on May 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Plus given all the brain-drain to the coasts the dumber you are the more likely you are to live somewhere where the effect of your vote gets magnified.
posted by Artw at 10:33 AM on May 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:33 AM on May 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
USA Today OpEd: Trump is a nightmare negotiating partner: Jill Lawrence
The only constants with Trump are unpredictability and expediency. These are not, suffice it to say, the traditional cornerstones of getting to yes in politics. The real pillars are trust and discretion. Can you rely on your negotiating partner to be consistent, to not leak or tweet or make counterproductive headlines, to be truly interested in a win-win outcome and understand what that will take?posted by ZeusHumms at 10:35 AM on May 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
I've heard three different NPR interviews with John Kasich promoting his new book, People Should Be Nice To Each Other Instead Of Mean
posted by theodolite at 10:36 AM on May 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 10:36 AM on May 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
Already linked in the thread here - that's why I read it - but I wanted to call out the article in Teen Vogue again:
... even the worst possible scandals are met with resigned exasperation. And when there are multiple emergencies every week, emergencies start to seem ordinary. It’s crucial we gain clarity from this manufactured benchmark, and the way it has changed us. The New York Times declared Trump’s 100 days “the worst on record.” The New Yorker called him “democracy’s most reckless caretaker.” Perhaps the most condemning diagnosis of all is simply that perpetual chaos has become the standard. There are no alarms left to sound.
Teen Vogue is killing it with their coverage. The bit I quoted is followed by helpful lists: things to read; things to do. Well done.
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:38 AM on May 1, 2017 [71 favorites]
... even the worst possible scandals are met with resigned exasperation. And when there are multiple emergencies every week, emergencies start to seem ordinary. It’s crucial we gain clarity from this manufactured benchmark, and the way it has changed us. The New York Times declared Trump’s 100 days “the worst on record.” The New Yorker called him “democracy’s most reckless caretaker.” Perhaps the most condemning diagnosis of all is simply that perpetual chaos has become the standard. There are no alarms left to sound.
Teen Vogue is killing it with their coverage. The bit I quoted is followed by helpful lists: things to read; things to do. Well done.
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:38 AM on May 1, 2017 [71 favorites]
Teen Vogue: Shield of Democracy?
posted by Justinian at 10:40 AM on May 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 10:40 AM on May 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
NYTimes: Trump Abruptly Ends CBS Interview After Wiretap Question
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:42 AM on May 1, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:42 AM on May 1, 2017 [24 favorites]
Fucking baby.
posted by Artw at 10:44 AM on May 1, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:44 AM on May 1, 2017 [16 favorites]
JackFlash, my experience with Social Security benefits dates from last fall. I, as a part-time employee for my work life, chose to take advantage of the spousal benefit offered in order to receive my husband's higher benefit upon his unfortunate demise.
I had already retired and was drawing my benefit; he was still working but had begun drawing on his benefit. The way it worked in my case is that I essentially gave up my own benefit and took his benefit in its place (though in the paperwork, I receive my benefit and enough of his benefit to equal 100% of his benefit).
Others' experiences may vary; I confess to not studying the issue more than minimally.
His pension worked differently: when he started drawing on it, we deliberately set that up as a benefit with survivor's option: the result is that I receive 50% of that benefit as the survivor. The cost on that to us was a reduced monthly benefit overall. Again, mileage varies on pensions and how they pay out.
I don't know if this information will add to the Social Security discussion, but I hope so.
posted by Silverstone at 10:49 AM on May 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
I had already retired and was drawing my benefit; he was still working but had begun drawing on his benefit. The way it worked in my case is that I essentially gave up my own benefit and took his benefit in its place (though in the paperwork, I receive my benefit and enough of his benefit to equal 100% of his benefit).
Others' experiences may vary; I confess to not studying the issue more than minimally.
His pension worked differently: when he started drawing on it, we deliberately set that up as a benefit with survivor's option: the result is that I receive 50% of that benefit as the survivor. The cost on that to us was a reduced monthly benefit overall. Again, mileage varies on pensions and how they pay out.
I don't know if this information will add to the Social Security discussion, but I hope so.
posted by Silverstone at 10:49 AM on May 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
He pulled the same "he's very popular" bit about Putin in another interview, even after the interviewer reminded him that Putin has people killed.
It's also clear that he says he's "considering" a proposal if it's something he's never heard of and has no clue what it means.
posted by zachlipton at 10:50 AM on May 1, 2017 [18 favorites]
It's also clear that he says he's "considering" a proposal if it's something he's never heard of and has no clue what it means.
posted by zachlipton at 10:50 AM on May 1, 2017 [18 favorites]
Plus given all the brain-drain to the coasts the dumber you are the more likely you are to live somewhere where the effect of your vote gets magnified.
I think this is key, and, unfortunately, not easily fixable. I had dinner with two good friends who are moving out to Cali from Texas, because, among other reasons, they want to flee their red state for beautiful blue California. And I can't blame them one bit!
People who are more open-minded, more intellectually curious, who have more ability to compete in the high-tech economy or get jobs that serve the high-techies, are flocking to cities and college towns. That's not a bad thing in and of itself, but the way the voting system is set up, the people left behind in dying towns and rural areas - disproportionately older and less well-educated and capable - have influence in elections out of proportions to their numbers.
These are the people who have what one New Yorker article called "Terribly Sad Life Syndrome," and cocoon themselves in Fox and Jebus and substance abuse and scapegoating black and brown people for all the bad things going on in their lives. (Yes, many rural people ARE POC, but they're not Trump voters, and if anything are disenfranchised out of the political system altogether.)
Addressing the rural/urban imbalance and increasing the influence of the "liberal archipelago" in cities and college towns is a lot harder, and might not be possible with the limits of our system, than begging The Elusive Angry Trumpist to pretty please change his mind.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 10:55 AM on May 1, 2017 [24 favorites]
I think this is key, and, unfortunately, not easily fixable. I had dinner with two good friends who are moving out to Cali from Texas, because, among other reasons, they want to flee their red state for beautiful blue California. And I can't blame them one bit!
People who are more open-minded, more intellectually curious, who have more ability to compete in the high-tech economy or get jobs that serve the high-techies, are flocking to cities and college towns. That's not a bad thing in and of itself, but the way the voting system is set up, the people left behind in dying towns and rural areas - disproportionately older and less well-educated and capable - have influence in elections out of proportions to their numbers.
These are the people who have what one New Yorker article called "Terribly Sad Life Syndrome," and cocoon themselves in Fox and Jebus and substance abuse and scapegoating black and brown people for all the bad things going on in their lives. (Yes, many rural people ARE POC, but they're not Trump voters, and if anything are disenfranchised out of the political system altogether.)
Addressing the rural/urban imbalance and increasing the influence of the "liberal archipelago" in cities and college towns is a lot harder, and might not be possible with the limits of our system, than begging The Elusive Angry Trumpist to pretty please change his mind.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 10:55 AM on May 1, 2017 [24 favorites]
The Trump campaign, and I still can't believe that's a thing, is claiming that they're spending $1.5 million to air this ad
Update: they already had to recut the ad because it showed McMaster in uniform, which violates prohibitions against using members of the military in campaign ads.
posted by zachlipton at 10:59 AM on May 1, 2017 [19 favorites]
Update: they already had to recut the ad because it showed McMaster in uniform, which violates prohibitions against using members of the military in campaign ads.
posted by zachlipton at 10:59 AM on May 1, 2017 [19 favorites]
Two-by-Four McArdle has decided to waffle defensively in the direction of Trump's comment on the Civil War. Right-libertarianism is a good way to give yourself brain worms.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 11:00 AM on May 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 11:00 AM on May 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
NYTimes: Trump Abruptly Ends CBS Interview After Wiretap Question
Brave Sir Domhnall ran awayposted by XMLicious at 11:05 AM on May 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
Bravely ran away away
When danger reared its ugly head
He bravely turned his tail and fled
Yes, brave Sir Domhnall turned about
And gallantly he chickened out
Bravely taking to his feet
He beat a very brave retreat
Bravest of the brave, Sir Domhnall!
(((Megan McArdle))) @asymmetricinfo
posted by Coventry at 11:05 AM on May 1, 2017 [29 favorites]
What interests me is "Why was the north willing to invade another country over slavery?" Mobilizing a huge population for altruism is rare.Asking this without addressing the threat to US sovereignty posed by the annexation of Fort Sumter is very strange.
posted by Coventry at 11:05 AM on May 1, 2017 [29 favorites]
Forget it, MetaFilter, it's McArdleTown.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:06 AM on May 1, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 11:06 AM on May 1, 2017 [12 favorites]
The way it worked in my case is that I essentially gave up my own benefit and took his benefit in its place (though in the paperwork, I receive my benefit and enough of his benefit to equal 100% of his benefit).
Yes, that is the way Social Security works for spousal benefits. When one spouse dies, you can either continue to collect your own earned benefit or else collect 100% of your spouse's benefit, whichever of the two options is greater. In your case, your spouse's benefit was higher than your own so you switched over to your spouse's benefit which you will receive for the rest of your life.
posted by JackFlash at 11:08 AM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yes, that is the way Social Security works for spousal benefits. When one spouse dies, you can either continue to collect your own earned benefit or else collect 100% of your spouse's benefit, whichever of the two options is greater. In your case, your spouse's benefit was higher than your own so you switched over to your spouse's benefit which you will receive for the rest of your life.
posted by JackFlash at 11:08 AM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
megan mcardle has somehow managed to parley weaponized misunderstanding into a career
posted by murphy slaw at 11:10 AM on May 1, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 11:10 AM on May 1, 2017 [13 favorites]
my favorite discussion of the civil war with a libertarian "lincoln was a TYRANT" type ended when he tried to claim that the war was unnecessary because other countries had ended slavery nonviolently, you know, like haiti!
haiti, where the revolution started as a slave revolt and they fucking executed most of the slave owners
at that point i realized that the argument had become pointless and i just started laughing at him.
posted by murphy slaw at 11:15 AM on May 1, 2017 [30 favorites]
haiti, where the revolution started as a slave revolt and they fucking executed most of the slave owners
at that point i realized that the argument had become pointless and i just started laughing at him.
posted by murphy slaw at 11:15 AM on May 1, 2017 [30 favorites]
Fucking baby.
I dunno. I have a 20-day-old infant at home right now. Much like Trump, he is loud and blusterous without a clearly-defined purpose, and spends his existence lurching from one incident of self-defecation to another. Unlike SCROTUS, however, this tiny human has yet to try to abridge the rights of anyone else, shows no preference for gender and/or ethnicity, and seems very interested in women's health care outcomes. Now that his eyes can focus, he also seems to show far more attention to detail than #45. Get this kid a pen and the hand-eye coordination to grip it, and I bet he shows better judgment at signing bills sent over by the Senate, too.
posted by Mayor West at 11:16 AM on May 1, 2017 [40 favorites]
I dunno. I have a 20-day-old infant at home right now. Much like Trump, he is loud and blusterous without a clearly-defined purpose, and spends his existence lurching from one incident of self-defecation to another. Unlike SCROTUS, however, this tiny human has yet to try to abridge the rights of anyone else, shows no preference for gender and/or ethnicity, and seems very interested in women's health care outcomes. Now that his eyes can focus, he also seems to show far more attention to detail than #45. Get this kid a pen and the hand-eye coordination to grip it, and I bet he shows better judgment at signing bills sent over by the Senate, too.
posted by Mayor West at 11:16 AM on May 1, 2017 [40 favorites]
It really comes down to those perfidious walls of Fort Sumter, who mercilessly assaulted the friendly Confederate cannonballs that were merely gently floating by to give a hearty and cheerful "good day" to the soldiers.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:20 AM on May 1, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 11:20 AM on May 1, 2017 [17 favorites]
Oh, so that's what begging the question / assuming the consequent looks like.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 11:22 AM on May 1, 2017
posted by the man of twists and turns at 11:22 AM on May 1, 2017
NYTimes: Trump Abruptly Ends CBS Interview After Wiretap Question
Watching the video really drives him how cognitively unfit Trump is. (Pull quote: "I don't stand by anything. I have my own opinions. You can have your opinions.")
In the followup, CBS's talking heads treat this bizarre behavior with ingrained deference when he was pressed on his utterly unsubstantiated claims about Obama wiretapping him. From the original video, you can see him walk straight into a line of questioning he's unable to extricate himself from, becoming more and more flustered and confused, until he breaks off and sulkily retreats in silence to his desk.
This is an Amendment 25-level crisis in the making.
posted by Doktor Zed at 11:24 AM on May 1, 2017 [47 favorites]
Watching the video really drives him how cognitively unfit Trump is. (Pull quote: "I don't stand by anything. I have my own opinions. You can have your opinions.")
In the followup, CBS's talking heads treat this bizarre behavior with ingrained deference when he was pressed on his utterly unsubstantiated claims about Obama wiretapping him. From the original video, you can see him walk straight into a line of questioning he's unable to extricate himself from, becoming more and more flustered and confused, until he breaks off and sulkily retreats in silence to his desk.
This is an Amendment 25-level crisis in the making.
posted by Doktor Zed at 11:24 AM on May 1, 2017 [47 favorites]
So Pat Buchanan's The American Conservative is a land of contrasts (and sometimes a land of advocating for ethnic cleansing.) But within that land of contrasts are opinions like these, which I find kind of fascinating...
The End of Trump’s Revolution?
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:24 AM on May 1, 2017 [18 favorites]
The End of Trump’s Revolution?
By rigidly endorsing orthodox conservative thinking and frustrating Trumpian populism, Republicans risk a major electoral backlash.11 Suggestions for a Populist Agenda: Here is how the administration can keep faith with those who elected it.
[...]
From Abraham Lincoln to Ike Eisenhower, the GOP often used the power of the state to defend Main Street from Wall Street, fight for the rights of African-Americans, and protect America’s vital interests in the world. Rather than being a doctrinaire exponent of “anti-government conservatism”, the Republican Party was a pragmatic force for “good-government conservatism.”
[...]
This can be accomplished only by rejecting orthodox conservatism’s commitment to Wall Street, atomistic individualism, and Wilsonian foreign policy.
1. Completely relieve workers under the age of 25 of payroll taxation [...]Democrats could probably get behind most of that. Sounds like the platform Democratic candidates should be running on if they want to pick up those rural votes.
2. Revive the Civilian Conservation Corps, a cause promoted only by Sen. Bernie Sanders
3. Make the services of the United States Employment Service [...] available to all workers under the age of 25
4. Provide tax credits [...] to encourage the installation of second kitchens [as a way of] generating new low-cost small units
5. Give limited incentives [...] to foster the creation of cooperative old-age clubs [...] to assist the elderly in remaining in their own homes
6. Promote model state and local legislation [...] to foster private redevelopment of blighted urban and inner-suburban areas
7. Support a revived TEAM Act providing for the organization of single-plant works councils, with the authority to negotiate local pay and productivity deals
8. Support an orderly decriminalization of marijuana
9. Make an effort to revive depressed downtown areas in small towns and cities with incentives for the creation of Business Improvement Districts
10. Provide relief for credit unions and community banks from the more oppressive Sarbanes-Oxley and Dodd-Frank regulations without holding them hostage to secure unjustified deregulation for larger banks.
11. Grant work permits to undocumented workers [...with] large ($5,000) application fees, the proceeds to be dedicated to a fund for law enforcement, housing, and nurse-practitioner programs addressing migration in its source countries.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:24 AM on May 1, 2017 [18 favorites]
Flavorwire: "To really understand Trump’s obsession with his victory, we have to look at one of the less-discussed areas of his pre-2016 biography: his involvement in beauty pageants. And what, exactly, does being Miss USA or Miss Universe entail? You travel across the country/world, speak at events, crown other pageant winners, and promote your brand. Your position is ceremonial and your achievement is being a winner – and the fact that you won this contest is your defining characteristic. Trump obviously saw President of the United States as the same kind of ceremonial position."
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 11:26 AM on May 1, 2017 [60 favorites]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 11:26 AM on May 1, 2017 [60 favorites]
In the followup yt , CBS's talking heads treat this bizarre behavior with ingrained deference when he was pressed on his utterly unsubstantiated claims about Obama wiretapping him.
CBS' morning news crew have just appalled me since the election, with their utter, utter inability to acknowledge the fact that this isn't just another president doing president stuff. It's straight-up journalistic malpractice.
posted by the phlegmatic king at 11:27 AM on May 1, 2017 [17 favorites]
CBS' morning news crew have just appalled me since the election, with their utter, utter inability to acknowledge the fact that this isn't just another president doing president stuff. It's straight-up journalistic malpractice.
posted by the phlegmatic king at 11:27 AM on May 1, 2017 [17 favorites]
Glenn Thrush lays out Trump's praise of Kim Jong-un, Duterte, Putin, Erdoğan, etc... and asks "does the President have a thing about these totalitarian leaders?" Spicer does not take the opportunity to condemn dictators.
posted by zachlipton at 11:28 AM on May 1, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:28 AM on May 1, 2017 [16 favorites]
McArgleBargle: Just to be crystal clear: this is not a defense of the slave state
This never goes well:
I'm not a racist, but ...
I'm not defending slavery, but ...
I'm not against abortion, but ...
I'm not defending the Nazis but ...
posted by JackFlash at 11:34 AM on May 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
This never goes well:
I'm not a racist, but ...
I'm not defending slavery, but ...
I'm not against abortion, but ...
I'm not defending the Nazis but ...
posted by JackFlash at 11:34 AM on May 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
I'm not in favor of burning children as sacrifices to Moloch, but.....
posted by thelonius at 11:36 AM on May 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 11:36 AM on May 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
Some guy in the briefing room is yelling at the press about why they won't demand Democrats denounce violence or something after Spicer left. I heard one reporter ask "who the hell are you?"
posted by zachlipton at 11:36 AM on May 1, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:36 AM on May 1, 2017 [30 favorites]
“If You Keep Fucking With Mr. Trump We Know Where You Live”
Trump’s casino business went bankrupt, and then a lawyer representing investors told police he got a menacing call from a man who said “we’re going to your house for your wife and kids” if he didn’t stop “fucking with Mr. Trump.” The FBI determined the call came from a phone booth across the street from the theater where Trump was appearing on The Late Show with David Letterman.How I Got The Facts The FBI Really Didn’t Want Me To Have
A lawyer reported getting a threatening call: “If you keep fucking with Mr. Trump we know where you live.” But who made the call? And why? The FBI’s files blacked out all the good details. That was just the beginning of the hunt.posted by kirkaracha at 11:41 AM on May 1, 2017 [42 favorites]
Asking this without addressing the threat to US sovereignty posed by the annexation of Fort Sumter is very strange.
Nope.
Asking this without addressing the threat to US sovereignty posed by the annexation of Fort Sumter isvery strange. representative of being a dope.
That's really all it is. I don't even think not knowing much about this necessarily makes you actually stupid. It's a big world with lots of stuff in it and I'm sure I have forgotten more details I was taught in school than I remember; I think I'd do better than McArgleBargle but I'm aware of my weaknesses in recall. It's the fact that I am capable of being aware of those weaknesses and she apparently is not that makes me, in my obviously not at all humble opinion, less of a dope than her.
But, ya know, being that flavor of dope is her job and see oft repeated quote about people'e ability to now know stuff when it's in their continued employment interest.
posted by phearlez at 11:50 AM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Nope.
Asking this without addressing the threat to US sovereignty posed by the annexation of Fort Sumter is
That's really all it is. I don't even think not knowing much about this necessarily makes you actually stupid. It's a big world with lots of stuff in it and I'm sure I have forgotten more details I was taught in school than I remember; I think I'd do better than McArgleBargle but I'm aware of my weaknesses in recall. It's the fact that I am capable of being aware of those weaknesses and she apparently is not that makes me, in my obviously not at all humble opinion, less of a dope than her.
But, ya know, being that flavor of dope is her job and see oft repeated quote about people'e ability to now know stuff when it's in their continued employment interest.
posted by phearlez at 11:50 AM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm not in favor of burning children as sacrifices to Moloch, but.....
GOOGLE 𐤒𐤓𐤁 𐤋𐤏𐤁𐤍𐤇
posted by zombieflanders at 11:54 AM on May 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
GOOGLE 𐤒𐤓𐤁 𐤋𐤏𐤁𐤍𐤇
posted by zombieflanders at 11:54 AM on May 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
No! We turn to our Leftist friends and say, “you’re welcome.”
Psh, Brandon J. Weichert has no friends, and his enemies don't like him either. God I'm sad I read that. Good news about the budget tho.
posted by aspersioncast at 12:00 PM on May 1, 2017
Psh, Brandon J. Weichert has no friends, and his enemies don't like him either. God I'm sad I read that. Good news about the budget tho.
posted by aspersioncast at 12:00 PM on May 1, 2017
“If You Keep Fucking With Mr. Trump We Know Where You Live”
This is one hell of a story and not to be missed. It's really not too hard to believe that a man who has been obsessed with telephones his whole life, has a record of calling up people under assumed names, and has a history of threatening people who jeopardize his business dealings might have been involved in an effort to make threatening calls to people who jeopardized his business dealings.
posted by zachlipton at 12:02 PM on May 1, 2017 [21 favorites]
This is one hell of a story and not to be missed. It's really not too hard to believe that a man who has been obsessed with telephones his whole life, has a record of calling up people under assumed names, and has a history of threatening people who jeopardize his business dealings might have been involved in an effort to make threatening calls to people who jeopardized his business dealings.
posted by zachlipton at 12:02 PM on May 1, 2017 [21 favorites]
This is one hell of a story and not to be missed. It's really not too hard to believe that a man who has been obsessed with telephones his whole life, has a record of calling up people under assumed names, and has a history of threatening people who jeopardize his business dealings might have been involved in an effort to make threatening calls to people who jeopardized his business dealings.
This sort of thing makes me wonder how much he was assuming he could just secretly call NK and whisper about nukes and they'd back off.
posted by Brainy at 12:05 PM on May 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
This sort of thing makes me wonder how much he was assuming he could just secretly call NK and whisper about nukes and they'd back off.
posted by Brainy at 12:05 PM on May 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
@BillinPortland: Hey there, @TheDemocrats! Howzabout a tweet informing coal country that YOU just got permanent healthcare for miners added to the budget?
We are so damn bad at taking credit for our victories. It shouldn't just be a tweet of course, but that message should be everywhere.
posted by zachlipton at 12:09 PM on May 1, 2017 [55 favorites]
We are so damn bad at taking credit for our victories. It shouldn't just be a tweet of course, but that message should be everywhere.
posted by zachlipton at 12:09 PM on May 1, 2017 [55 favorites]
“I have my own opinions,” Mr. Trump continued, as Mr. Dickerson tried in vain to ask him for an explanation. “You can have your own opinions.”
This is a classic (and powerful) rhetorical strategy. I believe the next level for a verbal tactician such as Trump is the famous rubber/glue rebuttal.
posted by diogenes at 12:10 PM on May 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
This is a classic (and powerful) rhetorical strategy. I believe the next level for a verbal tactician such as Trump is the famous rubber/glue rebuttal.
posted by diogenes at 12:10 PM on May 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
I just remembered another winning argument that Trump could deploy. There's a youtube video where two kids are arguing about whether it's "raining" or "sprinkling." At one point, one of the kids says "You're not real. I'm real!" I'd like to see Mr. Dickerson field that one.
posted by diogenes at 12:14 PM on May 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 12:14 PM on May 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
“I have my own opinions,” Mr. Trump continued, as Mr. Dickerson tried in vain to ask him for an explanation. “You can have your own opinions.”
Don't stop there, Mr. Trump! Go for the (heh) trump card! Play the First Amendment defense! They can't stop you from voicing your opinion, because it's enshrined right there in their beloved constitution.
You know your argument is solid gold when the best defense you can muster for it is literally "it is not so bad that it is illegal."
posted by Mayor West at 12:15 PM on May 1, 2017
Don't stop there, Mr. Trump! Go for the (heh) trump card! Play the First Amendment defense! They can't stop you from voicing your opinion, because it's enshrined right there in their beloved constitution.
You know your argument is solid gold when the best defense you can muster for it is literally "it is not so bad that it is illegal."
posted by Mayor West at 12:15 PM on May 1, 2017
I really think it wouldn't matter if Trump mentioned offhandedly in an interview that he had some people killed back in the 80s
posted by theodolite at 12:16 PM on May 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 12:16 PM on May 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
Fox News co-president Bill Shine has resigned, Rupert Murdoch says in email to employees.
posted by octobersurprise at 12:17 PM on May 1, 2017 [17 favorites]
"I know Bill was respected and liked by everybody at Fox News."APPARENTLY NOT.
posted by octobersurprise at 12:17 PM on May 1, 2017 [17 favorites]
Another thing that the Congressional budget includes that the Trump "budget" did not: an additional 2,500 visas for Afghan interpreters who worked for the US government and now risk being killed, in an attempt to alleviate a massive backlog of more than 13,000 applications for the special visa program. (Buzzfeed, May 1, 2017)
posted by filthy light thief at 12:20 PM on May 1, 2017 [26 favorites]
The State Department recently told BuzzFeed News that approximately 15,000 Afghans had applied for the visa program but that only 1,437 visas remained. Those figures do not include interpreters' families, who may also eligible for the program.My take-away: the number could have been higher, if not for fear that a bigger number would get shot down by Republicans.
The State Department stopped scheduling new interviews for the program on March 1, citing a lack of visas. Afghans interpreters and their families have faced everything from death threats to torture and murder, often as their applications to move to the US languished.
The deal to provide 2,500 more visas — a number supporters thought was realistic, given some Republican opposition — is part of a much larger agreement on a funding bill that will prevent the government from shutting down at midnight Friday. It comes after Congress approved another 1,500 visas in a defense bill in November. The new funding bill now awaits a vote in the House and Senate.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:20 PM on May 1, 2017 [26 favorites]
obligatory tweet
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:31 PM on May 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:31 PM on May 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
I know y'all aren´t really busy so here is a rabbit hole
140 Paths to Putin.
I now have to go outside for a bit to unscramble my brain.
posted by adamvasco at 12:31 PM on May 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
140 Paths to Putin.
I now have to go outside for a bit to unscramble my brain.
posted by adamvasco at 12:31 PM on May 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
I still don't for the life of me understand why there is any cap on the number of special visas for people who risked their lives working for the US Government in Iraq and Afghanistan. Surely the proper number is "however many people meet the criteria?"
posted by zachlipton at 12:31 PM on May 1, 2017 [50 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:31 PM on May 1, 2017 [50 favorites]
Trump's pick for to oversee Title X doesn't believe contraception works.
posted by emjaybee at 12:32 PM on May 1, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 12:32 PM on May 1, 2017 [14 favorites]
The deal to provide 2,500 more visas — a number supporters thought was realistic, given some Republican opposition — is part of a much larger agreement on a funding bill that will prevent the government from shutting down at midnight Friday. It comes after Congress approved another 1,500 visas in a defense bill in November. The new funding bill now awaits a vote in the House and Senate.
My take-away: the number could have been higher, if not for fear that a bigger number would get shot down by Republicans.
Democratic Party :"Risk your lives to help us in the war and we will give you Visas"
Republican Party: "Risk your lives to help us in the war and we will enter you in a lottery"
Democratic Party: "Okay lets do it!"
Republican Party: "Woah now! Those odds are too good"
posted by srboisvert at 12:36 PM on May 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
My take-away: the number could have been higher, if not for fear that a bigger number would get shot down by Republicans.
Democratic Party :"Risk your lives to help us in the war and we will give you Visas"
Republican Party: "Risk your lives to help us in the war and we will enter you in a lottery"
Democratic Party: "Okay lets do it!"
Republican Party: "Woah now! Those odds are too good"
posted by srboisvert at 12:36 PM on May 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
Trump's pick for to oversee Title X doesn't believe contraception works.
Since 1980, Title X has helped women avoid almost 20 million pregnancies, and has provided key reproductive health services to millions of women. (2001, Guttmacher Inst.)
Fuuuuuuuck.
posted by Sophie1 at 12:37 PM on May 1, 2017 [14 favorites]
Since 1980, Title X has helped women avoid almost 20 million pregnancies, and has provided key reproductive health services to millions of women. (2001, Guttmacher Inst.)
Fuuuuuuuck.
posted by Sophie1 at 12:37 PM on May 1, 2017 [14 favorites]
Who am I kidding?
Democratic Party: "I would have done better but I am anticipating how awful the Republicans are likely to be and meeting them there"
posted by srboisvert at 12:38 PM on May 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
Democratic Party: "I would have done better but I am anticipating how awful the Republicans are likely to be and meeting them there"
posted by srboisvert at 12:38 PM on May 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
Charles M. Blow, NYT Op-Ed: Trump’s Degradation of the Language
The lack of eye contact is strange, and the way he's positioned it almost seems like he's looking into a camera, except there's no camera there. (Like when someone on a live, multicamera show like a news broadcast looks into the wrong camera.)
posted by Room 641-A at 12:40 PM on May 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
Here is the great danger: Many people expect a political lie to sound slick, to be delivered by intellectual elites spouting $5 words. A clumsy, folksy lie delivered by a shyster using broken English reads as truth.I think most people don't watch these encounter videos and probably don't get it.
The lack of eye contact is strange, and the way he's positioned it almost seems like he's looking into a camera, except there's no camera there. (Like when someone on a live, multicamera show like a news broadcast looks into the wrong camera.)
posted by Room 641-A at 12:40 PM on May 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
Seven in 10 women obtaining contraceptive care at a safety-net center receive those services from a Title X–supported site. The Title X network serves 4.7 million contraceptive clients annually, or one-quarter of women in need of publicly supported contraceptive services. Sixty-nine percent of these clients have incomes at or below the federal poverty level, and 64% are uninsured. (2013, Guttmacher Inst.)
posted by Sophie1 at 12:41 PM on May 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Sophie1 at 12:41 PM on May 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
I'm going to be 40 this year, and I just subscribed to Teen Vogue. Strange, the things one has to do for insightful political coverage!
posted by orrnyereg at 12:42 PM on May 1, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by orrnyereg at 12:42 PM on May 1, 2017 [32 favorites]
National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: An atmosphere of doubtlessnessness
It is important to have balance on these pages.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:43 PM on May 1, 2017 [24 favorites]
The Post for too long has limited its opinion spread to people who have at least some slight inkling of what they are talking about. I am here to shake up that consensus and broaden our horizons so that we may compete.
This American Life covers events that led to Trump's election in "The Beginning of Now."
Takeaways: When Brat wanted to primary Eric Cantor from the Right, his campaign went to gun shows to collect signatures in support. They raised pretty much every Right-wing talking point: Cantor is for gun control, he wants to raise taxes, etc. People literally told them "I don't care about any of that stuff. I won't sign." As soon as they mentioned their man opposing amnesty and paths-to-citizenship for undocumented immigrants, people signed.
Pat Buchanan (*spit*) admits that he believes immigration is bad because it's just his "preference" not to have immigrants around. It makes him "more comfortable" to only see white people.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 12:50 PM on May 1, 2017 [13 favorites]
Takeaways: When Brat wanted to primary Eric Cantor from the Right, his campaign went to gun shows to collect signatures in support. They raised pretty much every Right-wing talking point: Cantor is for gun control, he wants to raise taxes, etc. People literally told them "I don't care about any of that stuff. I won't sign." As soon as they mentioned their man opposing amnesty and paths-to-citizenship for undocumented immigrants, people signed.
Pat Buchanan (*spit*) admits that he believes immigration is bad because it's just his "preference" not to have immigrants around. It makes him "more comfortable" to only see white people.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 12:50 PM on May 1, 2017 [13 favorites]
Bloomberg is reporting that theyre back at the drawing boards on the health care bill . . . trying to find a way to put actual pre-existing condition protections into the thing . . . since they said they would.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 12:50 PM on May 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 12:50 PM on May 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm going to be 40 this year, and I just subscribed to Teen Vogue.
Teen Fogey
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:50 PM on May 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
Teen Fogey
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:50 PM on May 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
"spousal consent for contraception" is a idea that originates in a concept of marriage that looks so little like my own that it might as well be called "blurgleflarb"
on the other hand i have no illusions that these blurgleflarbs don't exist, so we have to keep fighting this nonsense even though it MAKES NO SENSE
posted by murphy slaw at 12:52 PM on May 1, 2017 [14 favorites]
on the other hand i have no illusions that these blurgleflarbs don't exist, so we have to keep fighting this nonsense even though it MAKES NO SENSE
posted by murphy slaw at 12:52 PM on May 1, 2017 [14 favorites]
Pat Buchanan (*spit*) admits that he believes immigration is bad because it's just his "preference" not to have immigrants around. It makes him "more comfortable" to only see white people.
I was listening to this on my run today and literally said, out loud, while running down the trail in the park, "What. A. Dick."
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:54 PM on May 1, 2017 [13 favorites]
I was listening to this on my run today and literally said, out loud, while running down the trail in the park, "What. A. Dick."
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:54 PM on May 1, 2017 [13 favorites]
Bloomberg is reporting that theyre back at the drawing boards on the health care bill . . . trying to find a way to put actual pre-existing condition protections into the thing . . . since they said they would.
okay folks, i know there's been some confusion, so please put this down on your calendar this time
it's monday, so today we alienate the Freedom Caucus
we'll be back to alienating the moderates on wednesday
friday the president will announce that the new bill is nearly perfect
repeat until the bill is passed
posted by murphy slaw at 12:54 PM on May 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
okay folks, i know there's been some confusion, so please put this down on your calendar this time
it's monday, so today we alienate the Freedom Caucus
we'll be back to alienating the moderates on wednesday
friday the president will announce that the new bill is nearly perfect
repeat until the bill is passed
posted by murphy slaw at 12:54 PM on May 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
Bloomberg is reporting that theyre back at the drawing boards on the health care bill
Sure, keep smashing your head against that wall, guys. You're bound to break through eventually!
posted by jackbishop at 12:55 PM on May 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
Sure, keep smashing your head against that wall, guys. You're bound to break through eventually!
posted by jackbishop at 12:55 PM on May 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
I say July ish.
I think you're right on, with how town halls have been going lately that's exactly the kind of horrific culture-war bullshit that some R will use so he can focus on how he's PROTECTING FAMILIES from the menace of women's control of their own genitals during the August recess rather than the fact that he repeatedly voted for the deaths of his own constituents.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:56 PM on May 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
I think you're right on, with how town halls have been going lately that's exactly the kind of horrific culture-war bullshit that some R will use so he can focus on how he's PROTECTING FAMILIES from the menace of women's control of their own genitals during the August recess rather than the fact that he repeatedly voted for the deaths of his own constituents.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:56 PM on May 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
Consensus I'm seeing on the AHCA is that NBC, CQ, The Hill whip counts all show 20 firm no votes. The magic number is about 22 to kill the bill; the number is a little weird because Chaffetz—yeah remember him? supposed to be out for weeks?—is supposedly rushing back to DC tomorrow after his foot surgery. Which seems like the kind of thing that would happen if the vote was close and they were trying to get over the edge.
Meanwhile, Pence is headed to the hlll to talk about healthcare again, which seems like the kind of thing that would happen if they didn't have the votes yet.
My hunch on the Bloomberg interview is that the House just ignores Trump on preexisting conditions, just as they've ignored him on everything else. Their main priority is getting this crap off their desks and handing the flaming mess to the Senate, where most of this is a nonstarter. It's really hard for me to imagine the House making any major changes for Trump.
posted by zachlipton at 12:56 PM on May 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
Meanwhile, Pence is headed to the hlll to talk about healthcare again, which seems like the kind of thing that would happen if they didn't have the votes yet.
My hunch on the Bloomberg interview is that the House just ignores Trump on preexisting conditions, just as they've ignored him on everything else. Their main priority is getting this crap off their desks and handing the flaming mess to the Senate, where most of this is a nonstarter. It's really hard for me to imagine the House making any major changes for Trump.
posted by zachlipton at 12:56 PM on May 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
No one has yet introduced a spousal consent bill, to be clear. These threads get confusing.
And the persistent question floating in my head about this woman: is she married? How many kids does she have? Cause either she's got a lot, she's infertile, they have separate beds, or she's a hypocrite. And when it comes to Republican lawmakers who preach about sex, I usually bet on "hypocrite."
"But emjaybee," you say, "isn't it gross and inappropriate for you to speculate on the a. sexual relationships b. fertility c. reproductive decisions of another woman??"
Sure is! But if the prolifers can do it to me, by god, I will do it right back.
posted by emjaybee at 12:57 PM on May 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
And the persistent question floating in my head about this woman: is she married? How many kids does she have? Cause either she's got a lot, she's infertile, they have separate beds, or she's a hypocrite. And when it comes to Republican lawmakers who preach about sex, I usually bet on "hypocrite."
"But emjaybee," you say, "isn't it gross and inappropriate for you to speculate on the a. sexual relationships b. fertility c. reproductive decisions of another woman??"
Sure is! But if the prolifers can do it to me, by god, I will do it right back.
posted by emjaybee at 12:57 PM on May 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
> > Trump charging the Secret Service to ride his friggin' elevators? That is political attack GOLD.
> And people are going to have the CTJ moment on that one in contrast to Trump admitting to sexual assault, his promotion of racism, nationalist, fascism, his ignorance of the job, his disdain of the constitution and its system of checks and balances?
Actually yes. You're making the common Democratic mistake of assuming that reason, facts, spreadsheets and appeals to enlightened morality are going to carry the politcal argument. They never have and never will, for significant chunks of the population. By acting "above" gut punching tactics, Dems have ceded huge numbers of votes since the 1980s continuously.
Take this example. You can make a logical and arguably fair argument that it's not that terrible for Trump to profit off charging SS to ride his elevators. But the attack is brutally effective and ultimately fair both on the shallow and deeper levels.
On the shallow level, it sucks for Trump to take MY GODDAMN TAX DOLLARS so cleancut cops can risk their lives to protect him. Fuck him. What you're missing is that the pain is happening to ME, the uninformed voter, not some Other in a different state who's probably a minority or a skinny bitch single woman living a carefree fabulous life while I try to keep a trailer clean.
On the deeper level, even a non-rich president would be horribly selfish to not refuse the money on principle, and it illustrates a constant and horrific pattern of seeking personal profit through conflicts of interest at every opportunity.
posted by msalt at 12:59 PM on May 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
> And people are going to have the CTJ moment on that one in contrast to Trump admitting to sexual assault, his promotion of racism, nationalist, fascism, his ignorance of the job, his disdain of the constitution and its system of checks and balances?
Actually yes. You're making the common Democratic mistake of assuming that reason, facts, spreadsheets and appeals to enlightened morality are going to carry the politcal argument. They never have and never will, for significant chunks of the population. By acting "above" gut punching tactics, Dems have ceded huge numbers of votes since the 1980s continuously.
Take this example. You can make a logical and arguably fair argument that it's not that terrible for Trump to profit off charging SS to ride his elevators. But the attack is brutally effective and ultimately fair both on the shallow and deeper levels.
On the shallow level, it sucks for Trump to take MY GODDAMN TAX DOLLARS so cleancut cops can risk their lives to protect him. Fuck him. What you're missing is that the pain is happening to ME, the uninformed voter, not some Other in a different state who's probably a minority or a skinny bitch single woman living a carefree fabulous life while I try to keep a trailer clean.
On the deeper level, even a non-rich president would be horribly selfish to not refuse the money on principle, and it illustrates a constant and horrific pattern of seeking personal profit through conflicts of interest at every opportunity.
posted by msalt at 12:59 PM on May 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'd intended to put aside my hate for the NYT and buy a subscription. Instead I just subscribed to Teen Vogue, they have better political coverage and they **AREN'T** hiring climate denialists to write op ed pieces.
posted by sotonohito at 1:03 PM on May 1, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by sotonohito at 1:03 PM on May 1, 2017 [20 favorites]
Politico: Trump starts dismantling his shadow Cabinet
The White House is quietly starting to pull the plug on its shadow Cabinet of Trump loyalists who had been dispatched to federal agencies to serve as the president’s eyes and ears.posted by ZeusHumms at 1:03 PM on May 1, 2017 [17 favorites]
These White House-installed chaperones have often clashed with the Cabinet secretaries they were assigned to monitor, according to sources across the agencies, with the secretaries expressing frustration that the so-called “senior White House advisers” are mostly young Trump campaign aides with little experience in government.
The tensions have escalated for weeks, prompting a recent meeting among Chief of Staff Reince Priebus, Trump son-in-law Jared Kushner, and other administration officials, according to two sources familiar with the meeting. Now, some of the advisers are being reassigned or simply eased out, the sources said, even though many of them had expected to be central players at their agencies for the long haul.
Oh, another note on the episode of This American Life I mentioned above: someone casually mentions the Daily Stormer as a "news source" without challenge.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 1:06 PM on May 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Kitty Stardust at 1:06 PM on May 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
ZeusHumms: Trump starts dismantling his shadow Cabinet
Why build a shadow cabinet, when you can pick actual monsters from the shadows? Today's example:
Sophie1: Trump's pick for to oversee Title X doesn't believe contraception works.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:16 PM on May 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
Why build a shadow cabinet, when you can pick actual monsters from the shadows? Today's example:
Sophie1: Trump's pick for to oversee Title X doesn't believe contraception works.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:16 PM on May 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
I want to give Kevin Drum credit. He really called this one.
Obamacare Repeal Is Doomed
Kevin Drum DEC. 5, 2016
None of which should stop you from calling your reps, of course. Call them. They could always decide to dump coverage for pre-existing conditions anyway and just lie and say they didn't (I think that's Paul Ryan's basic plan.) But I just want to give Kevin Drum credit where credit is due. He predicted this fine mess that Republicans have gotten themselves into. Kinda funny that Paul Ryan couldn't predict it. He should probably read Keven Drum's column.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:21 PM on May 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
Obamacare Repeal Is Doomed
Kevin Drum DEC. 5, 2016
It's fairly easy to explain why repealing Obamacare but leaving in place the pre-existing-conditions ban would destroy the individual insurance market and leave tens of millions of people with no way to buy insurance.Trump's latest pre-existing condition tweets really pin Republicans between this rock and this hard place. Try to find a way to mandate (very expensive) coverage for people with pre-existing conditions which doesn't drive insurance companies out of business or else require some kind of mandate, or else require the government to shell out some funding from tax revenues. There isn't one.
...
It would be political suicide to make this happen, and this means that Democrats have tremendous leverage if they're willing to use it. It all depends on how well they play their hand.
None of which should stop you from calling your reps, of course. Call them. They could always decide to dump coverage for pre-existing conditions anyway and just lie and say they didn't (I think that's Paul Ryan's basic plan.) But I just want to give Kevin Drum credit where credit is due. He predicted this fine mess that Republicans have gotten themselves into. Kinda funny that Paul Ryan couldn't predict it. He should probably read Keven Drum's column.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:21 PM on May 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
I think Paul Ryan probably did predict it, but he's desperate to keep polishing the turd that is his Speakership, so you do what you can.
I'm sure by now he knows all too well exactly why Boehner left.
posted by darkstar at 1:23 PM on May 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm sure by now he knows all too well exactly why Boehner left.
posted by darkstar at 1:23 PM on May 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
TPM: The Cuck Stops Here
Trump presented himself as the consummate alpha-male ball buster, someone who speaks and embodies the ethos of domination his most ardent supporters instinctively crave and believe in. In practice, he’s repeatedly adopted what might be termed the preemptive fail, not only talking tough but failing to achieve his aims but actually jumping ahead of the process and unilaterally backing down or saying a metaphorical ‘nevermind’ before the supposed confrontation even arrives. As the Mexicans seem to have concluded Trump is less a threat than a bullshit artist who caves easily and is best either ignored or treated with a stern, disciplined and unafraid response.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:26 PM on May 1, 2017 [27 favorites]
Trump presented himself as the consummate alpha-male ball buster, someone who speaks and embodies the ethos of domination his most ardent supporters instinctively crave and believe in. In practice, he’s repeatedly adopted what might be termed the preemptive fail, not only talking tough but failing to achieve his aims but actually jumping ahead of the process and unilaterally backing down or saying a metaphorical ‘nevermind’ before the supposed confrontation even arrives. As the Mexicans seem to have concluded Trump is less a threat than a bullshit artist who caves easily and is best either ignored or treated with a stern, disciplined and unafraid response.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:26 PM on May 1, 2017 [27 favorites]
Boehner seemed like he couldn't get the hell out of there fast enough. You know he's watching what's unfolding out of the corner of his eye and just thinking, "Sucks to be you."
posted by azpenguin at 1:27 PM on May 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by azpenguin at 1:27 PM on May 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm sure by now he knows all too well exactly why Boehner left.
He knew when it happened, too. He just thought he was smarter or stronger or both.
posted by Etrigan at 1:29 PM on May 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
He knew when it happened, too. He just thought he was smarter or stronger or both.
posted by Etrigan at 1:29 PM on May 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
I'm sure by now he knows all too well exactly why Boehner left.
He knew at the time, as did everyone else, which is why every single person with party standing that might have otherwise taken that job scattered like a bunch of cockroaches when the lights turn on and Paul Ryan was left standing there with his big sad eyes saying, "Welll okaaaay, I guess I'll do it, if the Party really needs me but you guys have to double pinky-swear that you'll be nice to me, okay? I mean it! For real, guys!"
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:30 PM on May 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
He knew at the time, as did everyone else, which is why every single person with party standing that might have otherwise taken that job scattered like a bunch of cockroaches when the lights turn on and Paul Ryan was left standing there with his big sad eyes saying, "Welll okaaaay, I guess I'll do it, if the Party really needs me but you guys have to double pinky-swear that you'll be nice to me, okay? I mean it! For real, guys!"
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:30 PM on May 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
What interests me is "Why was the north willing to invade another country over slavery?" Mobilizing a huge population for altruism is rare.
Another country huh
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:32 PM on May 1, 2017 [53 favorites]
Another country huh
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:32 PM on May 1, 2017 [53 favorites]
He predicted this fine mess that Republicans have gotten themselves into. Kinda funny that Paul Ryan couldn't predict it. He should probably read Keven Drum's column.
Well, Kevin Drum is pretty much spot-on in that article, but it's not some miraculous prognostication (n.b. -- I have no particular opinion on Kevin Drum generally).
Anyone who has looked at health policy and who has half a brain understood this long before last December. There is no workable plan for replacing the ACA with a more free-market alternative, short of completely returning to the pre-ACA landscape with 40 million-plus uninsured people and medical bankruptcies and deferred care and people dying in the street because they didn't get their treatable condition treated before it became untreatable. And as much as a majority of the GOP reps are totally okay with that, or are willing to deal with it if it means lower taxes -- enough of them are scared of their constituents (or, potentially, have some ethical soul-shreds remaining) that they haven't been willing to pull the trigger (yet).
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:33 PM on May 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
Well, Kevin Drum is pretty much spot-on in that article, but it's not some miraculous prognostication (n.b. -- I have no particular opinion on Kevin Drum generally).
Anyone who has looked at health policy and who has half a brain understood this long before last December. There is no workable plan for replacing the ACA with a more free-market alternative, short of completely returning to the pre-ACA landscape with 40 million-plus uninsured people and medical bankruptcies and deferred care and people dying in the street because they didn't get their treatable condition treated before it became untreatable. And as much as a majority of the GOP reps are totally okay with that, or are willing to deal with it if it means lower taxes -- enough of them are scared of their constituents (or, potentially, have some ethical soul-shreds remaining) that they haven't been willing to pull the trigger (yet).
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:33 PM on May 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
All of that said about Paul Ryan, I don't think I could have resisted the offer to become one of the most powerful politicians in the country, even if it were handed to me on a silver platter without my having really done anything noteworthy at all to warrant the offer.
I might have paused to think about how difficult it might be to achieve a workable consensus on some key issues, but the other opportunities it would have opened up to me probably would have made it too sweet a morsel to pass up.
The siren song of power is strong.
posted by darkstar at 1:34 PM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
I might have paused to think about how difficult it might be to achieve a workable consensus on some key issues, but the other opportunities it would have opened up to me probably would have made it too sweet a morsel to pass up.
The siren song of power is strong.
posted by darkstar at 1:34 PM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Another country huh
Yeah and that's exactly the point at which I closed the tab
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:34 PM on May 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
Yeah and that's exactly the point at which I closed the tab
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:34 PM on May 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
Asking this without addressing the threat to US sovereignty posed by the annexation of Fort Sumter is very strange.
And here I was thinking that a libertarian questioning altruism was the height of cognitive dissonance.
posted by Talez at 1:36 PM on May 1, 2017
And here I was thinking that a libertarian questioning altruism was the height of cognitive dissonance.
posted by Talez at 1:36 PM on May 1, 2017
Trump's latest pre-existing condition tweets really pin Republicans between this rock and this hard place. Try to find a way to mandate (very expensive) coverage for people with pre-existing conditions which doesn't drive insurance companies out of business or else require some kind of mandate, or else require the government to shell out some funding from tax revenues. There isn't one.
I disagree with this optimistic view. Republicans are proposing that pre-existing conditions be covered but that those people will be removed from the pool and shifted to the "high-risk" pool. Now, the high risk pool will be inadequately funded so those people won't be able to afford coverage, but the Republicans will be able to claim with a straight face that they offer coverage for pre-existing conditions.
Or else they will issue waivers that allow insurance companies to charge people with pre-existing conditions premiums as high as they want. So, yes, they will cover your pre-existing condition but it will be too expensive to afford.
Obamacare is at a very dangerous moment. Do not rely on the Senate to save it, because that's not the way it works.
If the House passes a bill, any bill at all, the Senate is not likely to pass the same bill. But once the House has a passed bill, that frees up McConnell and the Senate to pass their own version of a "moderate" bill. It won't be as horrible as the House bill but it will still be horrible. And then the two bills go to a conference committee to find a compromise between very horrible and horrible. And that's the end of Obamacare.
So the only real way to ensure that Obamacare survives is to prevent any bill at all from passing the House. I'm not so sure they won't be able to do it since at this point everyone realizes it is just an opening salvo. The real dirty work will be done in the Senate.
posted by JackFlash at 1:39 PM on May 1, 2017 [28 favorites]
I disagree with this optimistic view. Republicans are proposing that pre-existing conditions be covered but that those people will be removed from the pool and shifted to the "high-risk" pool. Now, the high risk pool will be inadequately funded so those people won't be able to afford coverage, but the Republicans will be able to claim with a straight face that they offer coverage for pre-existing conditions.
Or else they will issue waivers that allow insurance companies to charge people with pre-existing conditions premiums as high as they want. So, yes, they will cover your pre-existing condition but it will be too expensive to afford.
Obamacare is at a very dangerous moment. Do not rely on the Senate to save it, because that's not the way it works.
If the House passes a bill, any bill at all, the Senate is not likely to pass the same bill. But once the House has a passed bill, that frees up McConnell and the Senate to pass their own version of a "moderate" bill. It won't be as horrible as the House bill but it will still be horrible. And then the two bills go to a conference committee to find a compromise between very horrible and horrible. And that's the end of Obamacare.
So the only real way to ensure that Obamacare survives is to prevent any bill at all from passing the House. I'm not so sure they won't be able to do it since at this point everyone realizes it is just an opening salvo. The real dirty work will be done in the Senate.
posted by JackFlash at 1:39 PM on May 1, 2017 [28 favorites]
So this is weird. Remember when Spicer was first getting started lo these many days ago, he accidentally posted his password to Twitter (twice)? Turns out it wasn't his password, it was a pair of bitcoin ID confirmation codes. The full story's still unraveling so stay tuned.
posted by scalefree at 1:41 PM on May 1, 2017 [48 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 1:41 PM on May 1, 2017 [48 favorites]
Time for your regularly scheduled reminder that the AHCA will cut off all tax credits for people to buy insurance in states like California and New York that require plans to cover abortion. This isn't something widely known, but some of the CA and NY lawmakers have figured it out, and even some of those inclined to support it aren't on board with something that leaves their constituents with nothing.
California's insurance commissioner now says he'll sue if this becomes law.
posted by zachlipton at 1:42 PM on May 1, 2017 [22 favorites]
California's insurance commissioner now says he'll sue if this becomes law.
posted by zachlipton at 1:42 PM on May 1, 2017 [22 favorites]
Republicans are proposing that pre-existing conditions be covered but [...]
I consider both underfunded high risk pools and waivers for community rating to be examples of "dumping coverage for pre-existing conditions anyway and just lying and saying they didn't," so yeah, again, call your reps. Let them know you are not fooled.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:46 PM on May 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
I consider both underfunded high risk pools and waivers for community rating to be examples of "dumping coverage for pre-existing conditions anyway and just lying and saying they didn't," so yeah, again, call your reps. Let them know you are not fooled.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:46 PM on May 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
Turns out it wasn't his password, it was a pair of bitcoin ID confirmation codes. The full story's still unraveling so stay tuned.
Is there any evidence that this isn't a coincidence and/or something not from Louise Mensch and associates? Because I can't come up with any credible reason why, even in the unlikely event Spicer was up to some sort of secret Bitcoin transaction, he would advertise that fact publicly from his well-known official twitter account.
posted by zachlipton at 1:47 PM on May 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Is there any evidence that this isn't a coincidence and/or something not from Louise Mensch and associates? Because I can't come up with any credible reason why, even in the unlikely event Spicer was up to some sort of secret Bitcoin transaction, he would advertise that fact publicly from his well-known official twitter account.
posted by zachlipton at 1:47 PM on May 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Turns out it wasn't his password, it was a pair of bitcoin ID confirmation codes.
Huh. That's....huh. I know nothing about Bitcoin so I look forward to any and all debunking/bunking of this. (If it's a coincidence, it's one hell of a coincidence. Random string of letters and numbers matching a transaction posted the same day the tweet was tweeted? That can't be a coincidence, right? Was Spicy just buying a pack of black market gum or what?)
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:49 PM on May 1, 2017
Huh. That's....huh. I know nothing about Bitcoin so I look forward to any and all debunking/bunking of this. (If it's a coincidence, it's one hell of a coincidence. Random string of letters and numbers matching a transaction posted the same day the tweet was tweeted? That can't be a coincidence, right? Was Spicy just buying a pack of black market gum or what?)
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:49 PM on May 1, 2017
Please stop with the fake news conspiracy nonsense.
posted by Justinian at 1:50 PM on May 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 1:50 PM on May 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
zachlipton: "Because I can't come up with any credible reason why, even in the unlikely event Spicer was up to some sort of secret Bitcoin transaction, he would advertise that fact publicly from his well-known official twitter account."
I think the governing assumption is that he tweeted it by accident (probably because he's incompetent, stupid, and/or a total doofus).
posted by mhum at 1:50 PM on May 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think the governing assumption is that he tweeted it by accident (probably because he's incompetent, stupid, and/or a total doofus).
posted by mhum at 1:50 PM on May 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
The article insinuates that he had to establish that it was legitimately a transaction from him, seemingly in a way that didn't directly communicate with the recipient (so a public tweet from his verified account).
Seems unlikely to me that they wouldn't have been able to figure out another way to communicate this.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:51 PM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Seems unlikely to me that they wouldn't have been able to figure out another way to communicate this.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:51 PM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Wait. What?
If You Keep Fucking With Mr. Trump We Know Where You Live”
If You Keep Fucking With Mr. Trump We Know Where You Live”
A similar incident, which has never previously been reported, occurred back in 1982, when Trump was embroiled in a high-profile legal fight to win a $20 million tax abatement for the construction of Trump Tower. The abatement would have greatly reduced or entirely eliminated the taxes Trump had to pay on the new project, but New York City Housing Commissioner Anthony Gliedman declined to grant it, and Trump sued him personally.posted by Room 641-A at 1:53 PM on May 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
[...]
A year after Gliedman received the threatening phone call, a State Supreme Court Justice ordered New York City to grant Trump the tax abatement. In 1986, Gliedman resigned as commissioner and went to work for Trump. He died in 2002. (emphasis mine)
Some guy in the briefing room is yelling at the press about why they won't demand Democrats denounce violence or something after Spicer left. I heard one reporter ask "who the hell are you?"
So it turns out that was Mike Cernovich, who they let in to the press briefing, and he showed up to yell at the press. Seems like everyone is just pretending it never happened to avoid giving him attention; the only actual article I've seen on it comes, I am not making this up, from Sputnik News.
We could also ask why the White House is credentialing a rape apologist and pizzagate fanatic.
posted by zachlipton at 1:56 PM on May 1, 2017 [28 favorites]
So it turns out that was Mike Cernovich, who they let in to the press briefing, and he showed up to yell at the press. Seems like everyone is just pretending it never happened to avoid giving him attention; the only actual article I've seen on it comes, I am not making this up, from Sputnik News.
We could also ask why the White House is credentialing a rape apologist and pizzagate fanatic.
posted by zachlipton at 1:56 PM on May 1, 2017 [28 favorites]
tivalasvegas: "The article insinuates that he had to establish that it was legitimately a transaction from him"
Oh wait, I think I missed that on first read-through. You're right that the article does insinuate that by calling it an "identity confirmation code". This does have a somewhat more conspiratorial tone.
posted by mhum at 1:57 PM on May 1, 2017
Oh wait, I think I missed that on first read-through. You're right that the article does insinuate that by calling it an "identity confirmation code". This does have a somewhat more conspiratorial tone.
posted by mhum at 1:57 PM on May 1, 2017
If it turns out he sold a jetski for bitcoin or something, this is not going to be a good road to push on. Doing a nefarious transaction on the blockchain with a public twitter handle is stupid even for this crew, and the right is generally full of bitcoin fetishists. Sean just doing legit business in BTC would be both ideologically consistent and a loyalty signal to the black-helicopters-taxes-are-theft crowd.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:57 PM on May 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:57 PM on May 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
I had dinner with two good friends who are moving out to Cali from Texas, because, among other reasons, they want to flee their red state for beautiful blue California. And I can't blame them one bit!
They'll be back, most likely. I've had three friends move from Texas to California, only to return due to a combination of cost of living and their opinion that California was way more racist than Texas. They encountered blatant racism much more often in CA than TX.
posted by threeturtles at 2:01 PM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
They'll be back, most likely. I've had three friends move from Texas to California, only to return due to a combination of cost of living and their opinion that California was way more racist than Texas. They encountered blatant racism much more often in CA than TX.
posted by threeturtles at 2:01 PM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
It would be weird for his twitter password to be the same as two bitcoin ID's though, wouldn't it? I mean, I really can't tell anymore, but it seems weird.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:02 PM on May 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:02 PM on May 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
If it turns out he sold a jetski for bitcoin or something, this is not going to be a good road to push on. Doing a nefarious transaction on the blockchain with a public twitter handle is stupid even for this crew, and the right is generally full of bitcoin fetishists. Sean just doing legit business in BTC would be both ideologically consistent and a loyalty signal to the black-helicopters-taxes-are-theft crowd.
Government officials pawing around in anonymous cryptocurrency should be an immediate cause for anyone's concern. Any government official using it should be assumed to be trying to get around disclosure requirements.
posted by Talez at 2:09 PM on May 1, 2017 [27 favorites]
Government officials pawing around in anonymous cryptocurrency should be an immediate cause for anyone's concern. Any government official using it should be assumed to be trying to get around disclosure requirements.
posted by Talez at 2:09 PM on May 1, 2017 [27 favorites]
Doktor Zed: This is an Amendment 25-level crisis in the making.
In the making? I think you mean "ready and set to go, if only someone would take the lead." Otherwise, it's another round in the fun game of "Surely, this ...."
posted by filthy light thief at 2:10 PM on May 1, 2017 [11 favorites]
In the making? I think you mean "ready and set to go, if only someone would take the lead." Otherwise, it's another round in the fun game of "Surely, this ...."
posted by filthy light thief at 2:10 PM on May 1, 2017 [11 favorites]
The 'we know where you live' phone call is, regrettably, par for the course if you're close to embarrassing somebody or something very powerful. It's cheap and it works.
But you don't do it from payphones next to a gig you're playing. That would mean you were stupid, and you shouldn't do that sort of thing if you're stupid.
Why this sorry excuse for a gangster isn't in jail already, I do not know. Oh yes, he has lots of (other people's, doesn't matter) money.
posted by Devonian at 2:11 PM on May 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
But you don't do it from payphones next to a gig you're playing. That would mean you were stupid, and you shouldn't do that sort of thing if you're stupid.
Why this sorry excuse for a gangster isn't in jail already, I do not know. Oh yes, he has lots of (other people's, doesn't matter) money.
posted by Devonian at 2:11 PM on May 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
Daily Beast: Sean Hannity Eyes Fox News Exit, Insiders Say
posted by dnash at 2:23 PM on May 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by dnash at 2:23 PM on May 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
Sean Hannity Eyes Fox News Exit, Insiders Say
Paging MSNBC
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:25 PM on May 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
Paging MSNBC
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:25 PM on May 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
> Daily Beast: Sean Hannity Eyes Fox News Exit, Insiders Say
Christ, I'm half-expecting "Fox News Hires Maddow, Harris-Perry, and Goodman" next in this game of musical chairs.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:26 PM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Christ, I'm half-expecting "Fox News Hires Maddow, Harris-Perry, and Goodman" next in this game of musical chairs.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:26 PM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm worried that e.g. the LA Times referred to the budget as "something of an embarrassment to the White House," when honestly it's the least embarrassing thing this "administration" has "done" so far.
They're disappointed there's not going to be a big freakout and shutdown, and that in fact most things in this budget look like they might proceed as before?
DeVos is an embarrassment. Sessions is an embarrassment. Nearly all of the appointments and executive orders and military adventures and press interviews are frankly embarrassments.
I'm concerned that the press might just blow the whole deal when the Idiot sees a bunch of FAKE SAD news talking about how the Republicans caved. I don't even know what he could do to blow the whole deal.
posted by aspersioncast at 2:36 PM on May 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
They're disappointed there's not going to be a big freakout and shutdown, and that in fact most things in this budget look like they might proceed as before?
DeVos is an embarrassment. Sessions is an embarrassment. Nearly all of the appointments and executive orders and military adventures and press interviews are frankly embarrassments.
I'm concerned that the press might just blow the whole deal when the Idiot sees a bunch of FAKE SAD news talking about how the Republicans caved. I don't even know what he could do to blow the whole deal.
posted by aspersioncast at 2:36 PM on May 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
They encountered blatant racism much more often in CA than TX.
Having lived in both northern and southern states, it has been my experience that you only encounter blatant racism from rural rednecks in the South. City folk are much more likely to speak in dogwhistles or more subtle, casual racism. "Oh I'm not racist but you know THOSE PEOPLE"
posted by Fleebnork at 2:42 PM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Having lived in both northern and southern states, it has been my experience that you only encounter blatant racism from rural rednecks in the South. City folk are much more likely to speak in dogwhistles or more subtle, casual racism. "Oh I'm not racist but you know THOSE PEOPLE"
posted by Fleebnork at 2:42 PM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Turns out it wasn't his password, it was a pair of bitcoin ID confirmation codes.
From the article:
n9y25ah7 is not an address, it's just the text value associated with a transaction.
The original tweet was at ~8:42AM if I'm reading the screenshots correctly. The bitcoin transaction was at 21:57:19UTC. Someone doing something with a string that many people were talking about that day is not necessarily significant.
There's nothing about the Aqenbpuu string in the article.
Maybe there's a story here but I doubt it based on the problems with the article. Let's be careful what signals we choose to amplify. There's enough fake news out there already that we don't need to be adding to it.
posted by Candleman at 2:50 PM on May 1, 2017 [15 favorites]
From the article:
What Mr. Spicer tweeted was actually an “identity confirmation code”That's not actually a thing.
n9y25ah7 is not an address, it's just the text value associated with a transaction.
The original tweet was at ~8:42AM if I'm reading the screenshots correctly. The bitcoin transaction was at 21:57:19UTC. Someone doing something with a string that many people were talking about that day is not necessarily significant.
There's nothing about the Aqenbpuu string in the article.
Maybe there's a story here but I doubt it based on the problems with the article. Let's be careful what signals we choose to amplify. There's enough fake news out there already that we don't need to be adding to it.
posted by Candleman at 2:50 PM on May 1, 2017 [15 favorites]
Because it feels like an Alpha move, crowding in on somebody's body space.
I keep hoping that one of these times Trump does that asshole pull-the-arm handshake bullshit that he pulls the other person TOTALLY ACCIDENTALLY off balance and ends up catching a TOTALLY ACCIDENTAL NOBODY DO THIS ON PURPOSE THAT WOULD BE WRONG knee right in the balls.
I'm a simple man.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:03 PM on May 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
I keep hoping that one of these times Trump does that asshole pull-the-arm handshake bullshit that he pulls the other person TOTALLY ACCIDENTALLY off balance and ends up catching a TOTALLY ACCIDENTAL NOBODY DO THIS ON PURPOSE THAT WOULD BE WRONG knee right in the balls.
I'm a simple man.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:03 PM on May 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
Candleman: "The original tweet was at ~8:42AM if I'm reading the screenshots correctly. The bitcoin transaction was at 21:57:19UTC."
Oh yeah, that pretty much seals it. If the tweet came after the transaction, then there'd be something to talk about. But since the transaction came after the tweet, then it seems like nothing more than extremely tenuous speculation.
posted by mhum at 3:04 PM on May 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
Oh yeah, that pretty much seals it. If the tweet came after the transaction, then there'd be something to talk about. But since the transaction came after the tweet, then it seems like nothing more than extremely tenuous speculation.
posted by mhum at 3:04 PM on May 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
A Yale historian talks about Trump's civil war comments.
Is it bad when historians end their comments about Trump with "God help us."? That sounds bad.
posted by Justinian at 3:05 PM on May 1, 2017 [28 favorites]
Is it bad when historians end their comments about Trump with "God help us."? That sounds bad.
posted by Justinian at 3:05 PM on May 1, 2017 [28 favorites]
Agreed with candleman. That reads like the most unsubstantiated garbage (and I am a BTC user).
On the topic of the legitimate news, I am so excited to see Gorka gone and this shadow cabinet being dismantled. May all the fascists get fired, and then live short hateful lives supported by the welfare state they tried to demolish.
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 3:05 PM on May 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
On the topic of the legitimate news, I am so excited to see Gorka gone and this shadow cabinet being dismantled. May all the fascists get fired, and then live short hateful lives supported by the welfare state they tried to demolish.
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 3:05 PM on May 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
On the topic of the legitimate news, I am so excited to see Gorka gone and this shadow cabinet being dismantled. May all the fascists get fired, and then live short hateful lives supported by the welfare state they tried to demolish.
The most competent and dangerous of all the fascists is still Attorney General.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:10 PM on May 1, 2017 [24 favorites]
The most competent and dangerous of all the fascists is still Attorney General.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:10 PM on May 1, 2017 [24 favorites]
Here's a depressing HuffPo piece about where this turn toward wingnuttery at MSNBC is coming from:
From outside, it might seem odd to see the premier liberal network veering right, even as liberals around the country are fired up to resist the administration of President Donald Trump.posted by tonycpsu at 3:10 PM on May 1, 2017 [31 favorites]
But from inside, the news about Wallace and Hewitt was seen as just two more steps toward the full execution of the vision of Andy Lack, the NBC News executive who oversees MSNBC. He has made quite clear his plan to move the cable news network away from its bedrock liberalism and toward a more centrist approach personified by Brian Williams — or even in a conservative bent, as typified by hosts like Megyn Kelly or Greta Van Susteren, who Lack brought over from Fox News.
Noah Oppenheim, Lack’s new deputy who has a long history of provocative right-wing journalism, is shepherding in the changes — which have coincidentally made MSNBC look much whiter. But Lack, in seeking to make this vision a reality, has an unusual problem for a TV executive: sky-high ratings. [...]
Every hour that Andy has not touched are the strongest hours on the network. Everything he has touched is lower rated,” said another well-placed insider.
Once the rest of the lineup is FOX rejects and retreads, they'll come for Maddow and Lawrence and Hayes too.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:13 PM on May 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:13 PM on May 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
A Yale historian talks about Trump's civil war comments.
As soon as I saw the link and the reference to Yale, I was hoping it would be David Blight unloading.
In this one small, tiny thing, I have not been disappointed.
posted by joyceanmachine at 3:13 PM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
As soon as I saw the link and the reference to Yale, I was hoping it would be David Blight unloading.
In this one small, tiny thing, I have not been disappointed.
posted by joyceanmachine at 3:13 PM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
> I'm worried that e.g. the LA Times referred to the budget as "something of an embarrassment to the White House," when honestly it's the least embarrassing thing this "administration" has "done" so far.
The reason it's being called an embarrassment to the WH is precisely that the WH didn't do it. In fact, the congressional budget contravened everything the WH said they would do. None of Trump's stated priorities -- building the wall, slashing EPA and ARPA-E, gutting the NEA/NEH, pulling all funding for sanctuary cities, &c. -- were achieved with this budget bill, despite the fact that the Republicans control both houses. The great "deal maker" is such a lousy negotiator that he couldn't even get his own henchmen to carry out his nefarious plans. Weak! Sad!
It's really the most delicious, well-funded schadenfreude I've ever experienced.
posted by Westringia F. at 3:17 PM on May 1, 2017 [29 favorites]
The reason it's being called an embarrassment to the WH is precisely that the WH didn't do it. In fact, the congressional budget contravened everything the WH said they would do. None of Trump's stated priorities -- building the wall, slashing EPA and ARPA-E, gutting the NEA/NEH, pulling all funding for sanctuary cities, &c. -- were achieved with this budget bill, despite the fact that the Republicans control both houses. The great "deal maker" is such a lousy negotiator that he couldn't even get his own henchmen to carry out his nefarious plans. Weak! Sad!
It's really the most delicious, well-funded schadenfreude I've ever experienced.
posted by Westringia F. at 3:17 PM on May 1, 2017 [29 favorites]
Donald Trump does not stand by anything, not even the principle of not standing by things
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:18 PM on May 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:18 PM on May 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
Politico: GOP suffers surprise defection on Obamacare repeal
Not only did they lose Billy Long, despite a personal plea from Trump, but his statement as to why he's a no is damning:
posted by zachlipton at 3:20 PM on May 1, 2017 [13 favorites]
Not only did they lose Billy Long, despite a personal plea from Trump, but his statement as to why he's a no is damning:
“I have always stated that one of the few good things about Obamacare is that people with pre-existing conditions would be covered," Long said in a statement. "The MacArthur amendment strips away any guarantee that pre-existing conditions would be covered and affordable,” Long said in a statement, referring to the last-ditch compromise between conservatives and House moderate Rep. Tom MacArthur (R-N.J.).They're damn close, but it's really not clear to me that they're going to get the votes this week.
posted by zachlipton at 3:20 PM on May 1, 2017 [13 favorites]
Trump will tell his marks that this budget is the greatest budget in the history of money, and they'll believe their God Emperor and anyone in the conservative media who tries to tell them differently will be labelled a cuck or whatever.
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:21 PM on May 1, 2017
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:21 PM on May 1, 2017
Several Republicans have come out Monday against the current measure to repeal and replace Obamacare, bringing CNN's whip count to 21 Republicans -- mostly moderates -- opposed to the bill with more than a dozen lawmakers still undecided... The Republican Party can only afford to lose 22 votes.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:22 PM on May 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:22 PM on May 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
On the topic of the legitimate news, I am so excited to see Gorka gone and this shadow cabinet being dismantled.
Weirdly, Sean Spicer said at the briefing today that Gorka was still on the White House staff and that he didn't know anything about his removal. I assume he's lying or misinformed, but who the fuck knows?
posted by theodolite at 3:24 PM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Weirdly, Sean Spicer said at the briefing today that Gorka was still on the White House staff and that he didn't know anything about his removal. I assume he's lying or misinformed, but who the fuck knows?
posted by theodolite at 3:24 PM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
“There’s no personnel announcement at the time,” the press secretary said. “I have no belief that he is currently leaving the White House, so there’s nothing to update you on with respect to that. And we wouldn’t comment on personnel matters at this time.”
Emphasis mine. The way this is phrased indicates to me that he is likely getting kicked out at some point.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:26 PM on May 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Emphasis mine. The way this is phrased indicates to me that he is likely getting kicked out at some point.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:26 PM on May 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Has anyone with a pet cause come out and said, "I thought it would be my thing that was the real reason Clinton lost, but then I looked at the numbers and, huh, I guess not."?
I always thought she would tank during the cookie bake-off.
posted by um at 3:27 PM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
I always thought she would tank during the cookie bake-off.
posted by um at 3:27 PM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
That's not actually a thing. n9y25ah7 is not an address [...] Someone doing something with a string that many people were talking about that day is not necessarily significant.
Yeah - I've been fooling around with bitcoin for 5 years (don't look at me like that, I'm just a poor computer geek looking to make a buck) and I've never heard of any "bitcoin ID confirmation code" like that. Besides, if it is something anyone can look up in a public database, then knowing it wouldn't prove anything. If you wanted to prove you were the owner of an account, you would need to sign a message using the account's secret key.
Looking over the website they link to, it is just a site for saving messages onto the blockchain by making a miniscule payment, and they code the message into the transaction. That address that handled lots of money might even belong to the message-sending website itself as part of its function.
I wonder how much this blogger knows about bitcoin, and maybe even if they got played here.
posted by CyberSlug Labs at 3:30 PM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yeah - I've been fooling around with bitcoin for 5 years (don't look at me like that, I'm just a poor computer geek looking to make a buck) and I've never heard of any "bitcoin ID confirmation code" like that. Besides, if it is something anyone can look up in a public database, then knowing it wouldn't prove anything. If you wanted to prove you were the owner of an account, you would need to sign a message using the account's secret key.
Looking over the website they link to, it is just a site for saving messages onto the blockchain by making a miniscule payment, and they code the message into the transaction. That address that handled lots of money might even belong to the message-sending website itself as part of its function.
I wonder how much this blogger knows about bitcoin, and maybe even if they got played here.
posted by CyberSlug Labs at 3:30 PM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Both strings do appear in the blockchain, apparently put there using BitSig, a service for adding arbitrary text to the blockchain. But the timing of the first string going on the blockchain looks to be later in the day that Spicer posted his first tweet. And the other string was only added today. So yes, the tweets came first.
posted by scalefree at 3:32 PM on May 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 3:32 PM on May 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
So you're saying the USS Sebastian Gorka is currently engaging in joint exercises with the Australian Navy.
posted by theodolite at 3:34 PM on May 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 3:34 PM on May 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
> Trump will tell his marks that this budget is the greatest budget in the history of money, and they'll believe their God Emperor
Yeah, probably, but if that's what it takes to keep the NIH/NSF/DOE/NEA/NEH/EPA/&c funded, he can stick that feather in his cap and call it macaroni for all I care.
But my standards are low. I have been horribly sick for days & am running a tremendous fever, and I keep worrying that the budget is some febrile delirium. I'm a little terrified I'll wake up tomorrow and discover that the increases are actually deep cuts.
posted by Westringia F. at 3:35 PM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yeah, probably, but if that's what it takes to keep the NIH/NSF/DOE/NEA/NEH/EPA/&c funded, he can stick that feather in his cap and call it macaroni for all I care.
But my standards are low. I have been horribly sick for days & am running a tremendous fever, and I keep worrying that the budget is some febrile delirium. I'm a little terrified I'll wake up tomorrow and discover that the increases are actually deep cuts.
posted by Westringia F. at 3:35 PM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
All that's precisely why I'm worried about how the press is reporting it; the base are idiots who get all their news from RT and Breitbart Facebook reposts, but the Prez watches a lot of TV and hates looking weak. If there's there anything he can do to fuck this up, this seems like a great way to get him to do it.
OTOH he's an incompetent nincompoop, and it's a pretty big story that the budget as it stands appears to be fairly reasonable. So it's not like I'm expecting the newspapers to do anything different, just fretting incoherently into the void.
posted by aspersioncast at 3:43 PM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
OTOH he's an incompetent nincompoop, and it's a pretty big story that the budget as it stands appears to be fairly reasonable. So it's not like I'm expecting the newspapers to do anything different, just fretting incoherently into the void.
posted by aspersioncast at 3:43 PM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Metafilter: fretting incoherently into the void
posted by theodolite at 3:49 PM on May 1, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 3:49 PM on May 1, 2017 [21 favorites]
I want him to get so fed up he quits. That is what I want. Just quit, Donny. You won't have any trouble finding that it's someone else's fault. You can do nothing but rallies and golf for the rest of your life, insist that people call you Mr. President, bitch about how much better a job you would do than Pence, and never have to go to another cabinet meeting. Say you miss being able to run your businesses, say whatever you like. Truth doesn't matter to you.
Just quit.
posted by emjaybee at 3:50 PM on May 1, 2017 [43 favorites]
Just quit.
posted by emjaybee at 3:50 PM on May 1, 2017 [43 favorites]
Ah, I get you now, aspersioncast. I have similar worries about the FY2018 bill, not so much because of Trump himself, but because I wonder what exactly the Dems promised in order to get bipartisan support for a FY2017 budget that looks almost too good to be true....
posted by Westringia F. at 3:51 PM on May 1, 2017
posted by Westringia F. at 3:51 PM on May 1, 2017
I don't see why the Dems would've had to promise anything (or why they should feel particularly inclined to keep some secret promise). If the budget doesn't pass, it's a political disaster for the Republicans, and the Trumpists and Congressional GOP leadership will be dragging each other through the mud. No?
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:55 PM on May 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:55 PM on May 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
Here's the thing about cutting domestic spending. Government jobs are real. Lots of people in "real America" rely on government spending. Contractors, farmers, manufacturers, scientists. Millions more people rely on second order effects of those people's jobs. Almost every dollar of government spending is a dollar that doesn't have a direct replacement if it's eliminated. When you start talking about cutting 30% of 1.1 trillion, you're talking about putting millions of people out of work. Even most Republicans understand the realities here.
Not the Freedom Caucus or any part of the wingnut media, but we're seeing right now that the Republican fantasy agenda largely can't survive contact with reality. Passing Trump's budget would result in an instant Democratic wave like we've never seen, and nothing is really going to change that reality by this September either.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:07 PM on May 1, 2017 [45 favorites]
Not the Freedom Caucus or any part of the wingnut media, but we're seeing right now that the Republican fantasy agenda largely can't survive contact with reality. Passing Trump's budget would result in an instant Democratic wave like we've never seen, and nothing is really going to change that reality by this September either.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:07 PM on May 1, 2017 [45 favorites]
Trump will tell his marks that this budget is the greatest budget in the history of money, and they'll believe their God Emperor
I don't think they'll believe him, but they'll be glad that he's making liberals upset with his claims and that will be enough.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:11 PM on May 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
I don't think they'll believe him, but they'll be glad that he's making liberals upset with his claims and that will be enough.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:11 PM on May 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
Republicans: "If you get sick, it's your fault"
[fake quote] but the real one is just as bad:
“My understanding is that it will allow insurance companies to require people who have higher health care costs to contribute more to the insurance pool,” Brooks said. “That helps offset all these costs, thereby reducing the cost to those people who lead good lives, they’re healthy, they’ve done the things to keep their bodies healthy. And right now those are the people—who’ve done things the right way—that are seeing their costs skyrocketing.”
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:15 PM on May 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
[fake quote] but the real one is just as bad:
“My understanding is that it will allow insurance companies to require people who have higher health care costs to contribute more to the insurance pool,” Brooks said. “That helps offset all these costs, thereby reducing the cost to those people who lead good lives, they’re healthy, they’ve done the things to keep their bodies healthy. And right now those are the people—who’ve done things the right way—that are seeing their costs skyrocketing.”
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:15 PM on May 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
Well, God doesn't give you more than you can handle, and if He does that means you were a bad person in the first place and deserve to be punished. It's just common sense.
posted by contraption at 4:17 PM on May 1, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by contraption at 4:17 PM on May 1, 2017 [12 favorites]
Well, God doesn't give you more than you can handle, and if He does that means you were a bad person in the first place and deserve to be punished. It's just common sense.
I had an evangelical student say this in class once and another student said "What about people who commit suicide?" and the evangelical student had literally never considered it.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:23 PM on May 1, 2017 [13 favorites]
I had an evangelical student say this in class once and another student said "What about people who commit suicide?" and the evangelical student had literally never considered it.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:23 PM on May 1, 2017 [13 favorites]
Yeah, that's been all over Twitter for me, which makes me wonder whether people outside my little political bubble are also seeing it. The just world fallacy is a powerful drug, but I think that's going to seem pretty hateful to most people.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:25 PM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:25 PM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
That's pretty annoying considering Jesus Christ himself explicitly refutes the just world fallacy in the Gospels.
posted by TwoWordReview at 4:28 PM on May 1, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by TwoWordReview at 4:28 PM on May 1, 2017 [12 favorites]
Metafilter: T̨̰͕̺͔͖ͣͩͧ̚͝Ḧ̖̳̪́ͮ̍Ḛ̶͓̑̿̇́͋̽͢͡ ̝̜͉̻̭̔͌̇ͯV͖͙̭͎̞̰̣͋̄ͬ̈́̂ͥ́̈́ͨ͠͠O̰͖͉̝͎̩̦̫̎͊ͨ̌I̘̖͈̼̳̖͓̬̘̒ͩ̎̍̆̌̾̌͂͟D̸̢͖̪̆ͦ̎͗ͫ͊̽
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:30 PM on May 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:30 PM on May 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
I think that's going to seem pretty hateful to most people.
And so very, very dumb.
posted by diogenes at 4:31 PM on May 1, 2017
And so very, very dumb.
posted by diogenes at 4:31 PM on May 1, 2017
This might be the most important march yet. The March for Truth.
We need a real investigation, also, because we need to know if Trump participated in this campaign to undermine our system of government. The circumstances strongly suggest he did -- his calls for Russia to hack Clinton's e-mails even as he denied, in the face of all the evidence, that they hacked the DNC, his quoting of Wikileaks in his campaign speeches, his staff's frequent communications with Russian officials, his professed admiration of Putin and support for his policies, his financial links to Russian investors... If Trump is in any way complicit in this influence campaign, his disloyalty makes him unfit for office, and he needs to be impeached.
I've just filled out a form at the site there to volunteer to help organize a march locally. I hope the turnout is HUGE. We need to prove to our elected officials that we as Americans do still care about our democracy.
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:40 PM on May 1, 2017 [54 favorites]
Across the country, peaceful demonstrations will be arranged on Saturday, June 3rd.I really believe the future of democracy itself is at stake. Propaganda is a weapon which is much more powerful against a democracy which values free speech than against a dictatorship which controls the media. Putin exploited our freedom, used it against us. We need a real investigation to figure out what happened, and how we can stop foreign influences from spreading disinformation without abridging the rights of citizens to speak their own minds. Otherwise the propaganda wars will continue to escalate, and democracy may become an unsustainable form of government.
Our goals are simple:
Congressional investigations should be properly resourced and pursued free of partisan interests, or an independent investigation must be established;
As much information should be made available to the public as possible, and as soon as possible;
Donald Trump should release his tax returns to clarify his business interests and obligations to any foreign entity;
If crimes were committed or if collusion is discovered, it must be prosecuted.
We need a real investigation, also, because we need to know if Trump participated in this campaign to undermine our system of government. The circumstances strongly suggest he did -- his calls for Russia to hack Clinton's e-mails even as he denied, in the face of all the evidence, that they hacked the DNC, his quoting of Wikileaks in his campaign speeches, his staff's frequent communications with Russian officials, his professed admiration of Putin and support for his policies, his financial links to Russian investors... If Trump is in any way complicit in this influence campaign, his disloyalty makes him unfit for office, and he needs to be impeached.
I've just filled out a form at the site there to volunteer to help organize a march locally. I hope the turnout is HUGE. We need to prove to our elected officials that we as Americans do still care about our democracy.
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:40 PM on May 1, 2017 [54 favorites]
Government jobs are real. Lots of people in "real America" rely on government spending.
That's the most infuriating part of all the coal miners and wildcatters fetish for me, in a nutshell.
posted by aspersioncast at 4:41 PM on May 1, 2017 [11 favorites]
That's the most infuriating part of all the coal miners and wildcatters fetish for me, in a nutshell.
posted by aspersioncast at 4:41 PM on May 1, 2017 [11 favorites]
It's also clear that he says he's "considering" a proposal if it's something he's never heard of and has no clue what it means.
@Timodc
Q: One proposal is to exterminate all the rats & pigeons and use their fur and feathers to warm the homeless.
Trump: We're looking at that
@daveweigel
Q: What if, one day a year, all crime was legal?
TRUMP: We're looking into that, and a lot of people like it a lot.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:45 PM on May 1, 2017 [21 favorites]
@Timodc
Q: One proposal is to exterminate all the rats & pigeons and use their fur and feathers to warm the homeless.
Trump: We're looking at that
@daveweigel
Q: What if, one day a year, all crime was legal?
TRUMP: We're looking into that, and a lot of people like it a lot.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:45 PM on May 1, 2017 [21 favorites]
What do you think it would take to get Trump to pick a fight with Mavis Beacon?
"I just think that, if she's such a great typist, y'know? Why go into teaching?"
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 4:54 PM on May 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
"I just think that, if she's such a great typist, y'know? Why go into teaching?"
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 4:54 PM on May 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
A double dose of National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: 'Donald Trump’s Civil War' by Ken Burns
Narrator: The Civil War, if you think about it, why?posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:05 PM on May 1, 2017 [31 favorites]
Sad fiddle music begins to play.
(A series of clips: troops walking ashore on D-Day, an engraving of the Boston Massacre, Fort Sumter with “You’re Fired” on it.)
Jeff Sessions: (long silence) Well, there is one thing we know about the Civil War, and that is: A lot of people don’t approve of it. But it is where I got two of my middle names, so that is good at least.
The main reason the Trump agenda is failing is that the reactionary right has always depended on people not being interested enough in government. The wildly self-promoting Trump is essentially a shock jock. He gets people to pay attention.
This works for the short term, but it will kill him in terms of getting Democrats involved and revealing the deep stupidity of his plans. The border wall while portrayed as a moral evil is also deeply stupid.
Trump is going to discover he won the presidency the same way in which Napoleon took Moscow.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:23 PM on May 1, 2017 [14 favorites]
This works for the short term, but it will kill him in terms of getting Democrats involved and revealing the deep stupidity of his plans. The border wall while portrayed as a moral evil is also deeply stupid.
Trump is going to discover he won the presidency the same way in which Napoleon took Moscow.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:23 PM on May 1, 2017 [14 favorites]
But yet my heart fondly wishes that Andrew Jackson could have done a deal.
Nary a day goes by that I don't think this very thought.
posted by diogenes at 5:26 PM on May 1, 2017
Nary a day goes by that I don't think this very thought.
posted by diogenes at 5:26 PM on May 1, 2017
BUSTED: Trump’s Army Secretary nominee caught on tape attacking evolution and theory of relativity
posted by Room 641-A at 5:40 PM on May 1, 2017 [23 favorites]
Evolution wasn’t the only scientific theory that Green questioned in his speech.CW: he also holds horribly shitty LGBT views
“The theory of relativity is a theory and some people accept it, but that requires somewhat of a degree of faith,” Dr. Green suggested.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:40 PM on May 1, 2017 [23 favorites]
Have you felt deprived of Bannon-related insanity in the past few days? Here, go read about his rap musical based on Coriolanus and set during the LA riots.
posted by jackbishop at 5:42 PM on May 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by jackbishop at 5:42 PM on May 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
“The theory of relativity is a theory and some people accept it, but that requires somewhat of a degree of faith,” Dr. Green suggested.
I would absolutely looooove to hear him explain the theory of relativity to us, so we know what he thinks it is.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 5:44 PM on May 1, 2017 [19 favorites]
I would absolutely looooove to hear him explain the theory of relativity to us, so we know what he thinks it is.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 5:44 PM on May 1, 2017 [19 favorites]
I wouldn't. I get enough crackpot emails "disproving Einstein" as it is, ugh.
posted by nat at 5:45 PM on May 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by nat at 5:45 PM on May 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
“The theory of relativity is a theory and some people accept it, but that requires somewhat of a degree of faith,” Dr. Green suggested.
I find that the phrase "dumb motherfucker" is very useful to have on hand in any assessment of, oh, pretty much any member of this administration.
posted by CommonSense at 5:50 PM on May 1, 2017 [12 favorites]
I find that the phrase "dumb motherfucker" is very useful to have on hand in any assessment of, oh, pretty much any member of this administration.
posted by CommonSense at 5:50 PM on May 1, 2017 [12 favorites]
Well, God doesn't give you more than you can handle ...
What about the buffet at Golden Corral? What about that, smart guy?
posted by octobersurprise at 5:57 PM on May 1, 2017 [28 favorites]
What about the buffet at Golden Corral? What about that, smart guy?
posted by octobersurprise at 5:57 PM on May 1, 2017 [28 favorites]
“The theory of relativity is a theory and some people accept it, but that requires somewhat of a degree of faith,” Dr. Green suggested.
Wellllll we have kind of proven it exists so it's a little more than faith but self-evident through observation and internally consistent.
posted by Talez at 6:04 PM on May 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
Wellllll we have kind of proven it exists so it's a little more than faith but self-evident through observation and internally consistent.
posted by Talez at 6:04 PM on May 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
Cue Angry Andrew Jackson Tweet:
@realDonaldTrump: President Andrew Jackson, who died 16 years before the Civil War started, saw it coming and was angry. Would never have let it happen!
Can it really be our reality that the President of the United States goes to his bedroom alone, watches cable news, and demands an aide tell him how long it was between Jackson's death and the Civil War so he can subtweet the TV and praise a deeply problematic President?
In other news, the NYT is running its meta whip count on the AHCA again, so you can see precisely which Republicans want you to die, updated frequently.
posted by zachlipton at 6:12 PM on May 1, 2017 [11 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump: President Andrew Jackson, who died 16 years before the Civil War started, saw it coming and was angry. Would never have let it happen!
Can it really be our reality that the President of the United States goes to his bedroom alone, watches cable news, and demands an aide tell him how long it was between Jackson's death and the Civil War so he can subtweet the TV and praise a deeply problematic President?
In other news, the NYT is running its meta whip count on the AHCA again, so you can see precisely which Republicans want you to die, updated frequently.
posted by zachlipton at 6:12 PM on May 1, 2017 [11 favorites]
Sorry, that should have said "deeply problematic slave-owning, genocidal President." We regret the error.
posted by zachlipton at 6:19 PM on May 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 6:19 PM on May 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
I must admit, it's not often you see a bill being resurrected from the dead through sheer force of tantrum from the toddler in chief.
posted by Talez at 6:26 PM on May 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Talez at 6:26 PM on May 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
I must admit, it's not often you see a bill being resurrected from the dead through sheer force of tantrum from the toddler in chief.
About that... Politico just updated their Billy Long article with new developments:
posted by zachlipton at 6:35 PM on May 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
About that... Politico just updated their Billy Long article with new developments:
And the task was made even harder by an unforced error from Trump. The president told Bloomberg News in an interview Monday morning that the bill might change to provide more protections to people with preexisting conditions. “It’s not in its final form right now,” he said. Trump's comments frustrated the House whip effort, as some members interpreted them to mean the president was reopening negotiations.The most hilarious part of this, insofar as a proposal that will literally kill people can be hilarious, which makes me think I've chosen my words poorly indeed, is that even members of the GOP whip team won't publicly commit to supporting the bill, even as they're supposed to be getting their colleagues to vote yes. Quis whip ipsos whips?
“I don’t know if there are going to be any kinds of changes,” said Rep. Patrick Meehan (R-Pa.), who opposes the AHCA, as he exited a meeting of Ryan’s whip team.
By late evening Monday, Trump was calling lawmakers to walk back his comments.
posted by zachlipton at 6:35 PM on May 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
Perhaps I'm a victim of the global epidemic of the as-yet-unnamed syndrome caused by the Dunning-Kruger virus, but as someone with no qualifications beyond school level in theology, physics or biology, I would really, really fancy my chances in debate with Dr Green on
* The Abrahamic God and scriptural, historical and psychological matters pertaining
* Relativity, special and general, Einstein's work and consequent theoretical and experimental developments
* Evolution, from Darwin to the present day. A cavalcade! Of science!
But, srsly? Doesn't the Army use GPS? Has it heard of nukes?
Again with the DK viral syndrome, but I suspect strongly that, in the current climate (and do we need to know Dr Green's considered opinion on climate?) of Fuck You Donnie radiatiating from the Hill, this man's nomination will somehow not go forward.
But the offer's there. Pay my airfare (non-US carrier only, sorry), and I'm yours.
posted by Devonian at 6:42 PM on May 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
* The Abrahamic God and scriptural, historical and psychological matters pertaining
* Relativity, special and general, Einstein's work and consequent theoretical and experimental developments
* Evolution, from Darwin to the present day. A cavalcade! Of science!
But, srsly? Doesn't the Army use GPS? Has it heard of nukes?
Again with the DK viral syndrome, but I suspect strongly that, in the current climate (and do we need to know Dr Green's considered opinion on climate?) of Fuck You Donnie radiatiating from the Hill, this man's nomination will somehow not go forward.
But the offer's there. Pay my airfare (non-US carrier only, sorry), and I'm yours.
posted by Devonian at 6:42 PM on May 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump: President Andrew Jackson, who died 16 years before the Civil War started, saw it coming and was angry. Would never have let it happen!
I just tweeted at the POTUS that he's a fucking dummy. If anyone had ever told me in 6th grade social studies class where I learned about the three branches of government that I would one day electronically communicate to the POTUS that he's a dummy I probably would have smoked a lot more weed.
posted by photoslob at 6:43 PM on May 1, 2017 [43 favorites]
I just tweeted at the POTUS that he's a fucking dummy. If anyone had ever told me in 6th grade social studies class where I learned about the three branches of government that I would one day electronically communicate to the POTUS that he's a dummy I probably would have smoked a lot more weed.
posted by photoslob at 6:43 PM on May 1, 2017 [43 favorites]
The most hilarious part of this, insofar as a proposal that will literally kill people can be hilarious, which makes me think I've chosen my words poorly indeed, is that even members of the GOP whip team won't publicly commit to supporting the bill, even as they're supposed to be getting their colleagues to vote yes. Quis whip ipsos whips?
I can't help but think that Frank Underwood would have pushed Trump in front of a train by now.
posted by Talez at 6:46 PM on May 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
I can't help but think that Frank Underwood would have pushed Trump in front of a train by now.
posted by Talez at 6:46 PM on May 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
2020 watch: Kirsten Gillibrand rules out Prez run.
As much as anyone rules out these things.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:47 PM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
As much as anyone rules out these things.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:47 PM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trump tweeting the number of years before the Civil War that Andrew Jackson died just reeks of insecure desperation. Is it so important that the American people know that no I'm not stupid I really know when he died I swear the mean press man just made me look bad because I said it weird?
Granted, I could not have possibly told you this morning with more than, like, 60% confidence whether Jackson was dead or alive at the start of the Civil War. But I have totally wondered why the Civil War before. You know, because I graduated high school.
posted by Room 101 at 6:48 PM on May 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
Granted, I could not have possibly told you this morning with more than, like, 60% confidence whether Jackson was dead or alive at the start of the Civil War. But I have totally wondered why the Civil War before. You know, because I graduated high school.
posted by Room 101 at 6:48 PM on May 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
2020 watch: Kirsten Gillibrand rules out Prez run.
Damn.
posted by Talez at 6:49 PM on May 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Damn.
posted by Talez at 6:49 PM on May 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Maybe I'm just being paranoid, but Trump's tweet seems so ominous to me. Does he think he's Jackson right now? And he can be a visionary and stop a civil war decades in the future? And if so, just what would he do to the country while thinking to himself "this is what I've got to do to stop a civil war?"
Bannon has been pumping Trump full of Jackson facts, and while the vast majority of them clearly haven't took, I think there's more to it than just signaling to white supremacists.
posted by zachlipton at 6:51 PM on May 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
Bannon has been pumping Trump full of Jackson facts, and while the vast majority of them clearly haven't took, I think there's more to it than just signaling to white supremacists.
posted by zachlipton at 6:51 PM on May 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
Or maybe Trump's just getting Andrew Jackson confused with the Carl Weathers character Action Jackson.
posted by Talez at 6:53 PM on May 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Talez at 6:53 PM on May 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
Does he think he's Jackson right now? And he can be a visionary and stop a civil war decades in the future?Nah. I don't think it's anything that deep. I think he knows that Jackson was a strong, decisive, racist guy who white supremacists think was just groovy, and he got mixed up and thought Jackson had something to do with the Civil War. So he said something dumb, and he got called out on it, and now he's backtracking because he's afraid he looked stupid. That's all.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:56 PM on May 1, 2017 [21 favorites]
I'm choosing to interpret that grammatically ambiguous tweet as meaning Andrew Jackson saw his own death coming, was angry about it, and never would have let it happen
posted by theodolite at 6:59 PM on May 1, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 6:59 PM on May 1, 2017 [24 favorites]
He has no idea who Jackson is. He vaguely remembers Bannon saying Jackson was great and now Trump is even greater, the best, a lot of people are talking about how he's the best.
posted by uosuaq at 7:01 PM on May 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by uosuaq at 7:01 PM on May 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump: President Andrew Jackson, who died 16 years before the Civil War started, saw it coming and was angry. Would never have let it happen!
I love that the leader of the Party of Lincoln is ranting that a genocidal racist would've handled the Civil War better than... Lincoln.
posted by chris24 at 7:03 PM on May 1, 2017 [64 favorites]
I love that the leader of the Party of Lincoln is ranting that a genocidal racist would've handled the Civil War better than... Lincoln.
posted by chris24 at 7:03 PM on May 1, 2017 [64 favorites]
All this praise of Andrew Jackson. Frederick Douglass would be rolling in his grave, if he were dead.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:05 PM on May 1, 2017 [69 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:05 PM on May 1, 2017 [69 favorites]
Is it so important that the American people know that no I'm not stupid ...
Bad: he thinks he's a Godfather. Worse: the Godfather is Fredo.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:06 PM on May 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
Bad: he thinks he's a Godfather. Worse: the Godfather is Fredo.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:06 PM on May 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
Literally having to explain to people that the Civil War still affects all of us today in numerous ways, so it is important to understand its context in our history if you are President, is giving me a bigly fucking headache today. Honest to God I thought I'd filtered all the serious idiots out months ago. Someone literally called Fort Sumter "revisionist history" and un-ironically used the phrase "The War of Northern Aggression" with me today.
posted by Cookiebastard at 7:19 PM on May 1, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by Cookiebastard at 7:19 PM on May 1, 2017 [20 favorites]
Meanwhile, the Balch Springs police chief now admits that he provided false information about the Jordan Edwards shooting, a 15-year-old black teenager killed by police; he initially told the press that the car was reversing toward officers, but now admits that wasn't true. And thanks to Jeff Sessions, the prospect of any meaningful DOJ review or action is just about zero.
posted by zachlipton at 7:36 PM on May 1, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:36 PM on May 1, 2017 [28 favorites]
at some point the idea that being an idiot is no hindrance to success in our regulated capitalist republic should stop being something subversive that gets taught at older ages and should start getting ground into children at kindergarten. Jade more kids now, so that they don’t have hearts to break.
This fucking administration.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:43 PM on May 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
This fucking administration.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:43 PM on May 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
If I was a woman even thinking about running for President, I sure as hell wouldn't announce it till the last possible minute, I can tell you. Not to impugn Ms. Gillibrand. But why give them any more time to come up with some kind of emailsghazipizzapedo story before you have to?
posted by emjaybee at 7:43 PM on May 1, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 7:43 PM on May 1, 2017 [30 favorites]
Politico: Trump's dizzying day of interviews
posted by zachlipton at 7:57 PM on May 1, 2017 [30 favorites]
"It seems to be among the most bizarre recent 24 hours in American presidential history," said Douglas Brinkley, a presidential historian. "It was all just surreal disarray and a confused mental state from the president."No strategy? Really? This is my shocked face.
The interviews — published by Bloomberg, Face the Nation and the SiriusXM radio network — seemed timed to the president's 100-day mark but contained a dizzying amount of news, even for a president who often makes news in state-of-consciousness comments. Trump's advisers have at times tried to curb his media appearances, worried he will step on his message. "They were not helpful to us," one senior administration official said. "There was no point to do all of them."
White House officials said privately there was no broader strategy behind the interviews. GOP strategists and Capitol Hill aides were puzzled by it all. "I have no idea what they view as a successful media hit," said one senior GOP consultant with close ties to the administration. "He just seemed to go crazy today," a senior GOP aide said.
posted by zachlipton at 7:57 PM on May 1, 2017 [30 favorites]
What "senior GOP aide" said "He just seemed to go crazy today"? And WHY ISN'T THIS FRONT PAGE NEWS?
Remember in "The West Wing" when things like "The President doesn't like green beans" and "He didn't like a movie" and "The Surgeon General said legalizing pot might be OK" were huge PR crises that the white house had to spend a week dealing with? And this President (or his party) has aides who can come right out and say "He's a crazy fuck" and nobody bothers to make a big deal of it at all?
Arrrrgh, sorry, need to bang my head on this desk for a while.
posted by mmoncur at 8:05 PM on May 1, 2017 [59 favorites]
Remember in "The West Wing" when things like "The President doesn't like green beans" and "He didn't like a movie" and "The Surgeon General said legalizing pot might be OK" were huge PR crises that the white house had to spend a week dealing with? And this President (or his party) has aides who can come right out and say "He's a crazy fuck" and nobody bothers to make a big deal of it at all?
Arrrrgh, sorry, need to bang my head on this desk for a while.
posted by mmoncur at 8:05 PM on May 1, 2017 [59 favorites]
Round about September 2016 I remember thinking "jesus, every day it's just more and more crazy shit, how long can this possibly continue? what would it be like if he won?"
And, well,
posted by theodolite at 8:08 PM on May 1, 2017 [26 favorites]
And, well,
posted by theodolite at 8:08 PM on May 1, 2017 [26 favorites]
This brings into earworm status one of the lesser hits by The Who: "Another Tricky Day".
Just gotta get used to it...
This is no social crisis...
This is you having fun
(No crisis)...
This is no social crisis
Just another tricky day for you
Setting the bar....
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:11 PM on May 1, 2017
Just gotta get used to it...
This is no social crisis...
This is you having fun
(No crisis)...
This is no social crisis
Just another tricky day for you
Setting the bar....
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:11 PM on May 1, 2017
SPECIAL ELECTIONS NEWS
* First GA-06 poll since the first round is out.
* First GA-06 poll since the first round is out.
Ossoff 48posted by Chrysostom at 8:12 PM on May 1, 2017 [33 favorites]
Handel 47
Undecided 5
Doesn't the Army use GPS?
It was created by the Department of Defense. I think even now it's run by the Air Force.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 8:22 PM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
It was created by the Department of Defense. I think even now it's run by the Air Force.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 8:22 PM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
He just seemed to go crazy today
Gee. If only there was something in our foundational document, the highest law of the land, that was specifically intended to deal with this problem. Oh well. Guess we're stuck with crazy for 4 years!
posted by dis_integration at 8:29 PM on May 1, 2017 [18 favorites]
Gee. If only there was something in our foundational document, the highest law of the land, that was specifically intended to deal with this problem. Oh well. Guess we're stuck with crazy for 4 years!
posted by dis_integration at 8:29 PM on May 1, 2017 [18 favorites]
Meanwhile, the Balch Springs police chief now admits that he provided false information about the Jordan Edwards shooting, a 15-year-old black teenager killed by police; he initially told the press that the car was reversing toward officers, but now admits that wasn't true. And thanks to Jeff Sessions, the prospect of any meaningful DOJ review or action is just about zero.
Let's do something about this. What would id it take to get a full page spread in a major newspaper shaming Sessions (and embarrassing Trump) on this very issue sometime this month? This is a clear, immediate case with broader implications that Sessions should be forced to address. The media won't force him to address it unless somebody forces them. Why not us?
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:30 PM on May 1, 2017 [11 favorites]
Let's do something about this. What would id it take to get a full page spread in a major newspaper shaming Sessions (and embarrassing Trump) on this very issue sometime this month? This is a clear, immediate case with broader implications that Sessions should be forced to address. The media won't force him to address it unless somebody forces them. Why not us?
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:30 PM on May 1, 2017 [11 favorites]
Or, i mean, some subset of us.
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:31 PM on May 1, 2017
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:31 PM on May 1, 2017
Can it really be our reality that the President of the United States goes to his bedroom alone, watches cable news, and demands an aide tell him how long it was between Jackson's death and the Civil War so he can subtweet the TV and praise a deeply problematic President?
I think the 50,000 people on Twitter, FaceBook & every cable outfit with a news division who told him when Jackson died might have had something to do with it.
posted by scalefree at 8:42 PM on May 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
I think the 50,000 people on Twitter, FaceBook & every cable outfit with a news division who told him when Jackson died might have had something to do with it.
posted by scalefree at 8:42 PM on May 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
Maybe there was no Civil War. Maybe it's just something made up by liberals and slavery never existed. I think one of my toes is conspiring with my kidneys to overthrow my nipples.
posted by um at 8:52 PM on May 1, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by um at 8:52 PM on May 1, 2017 [11 favorites]
This is a clear, immediate case with broader implications that Sessions should be forced to address.
Part of Trump's platform was shutting down uppity black people that dared to complain about police shootings of innocent black men (and stricter policing of minority areas, endorsing illegal stop and frisks). His base doesn't care or approves of this, you're not going to shame them with this.
posted by Candleman at 8:59 PM on May 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
Part of Trump's platform was shutting down uppity black people that dared to complain about police shootings of innocent black men (and stricter policing of minority areas, endorsing illegal stop and frisks). His base doesn't care or approves of this, you're not going to shame them with this.
posted by Candleman at 8:59 PM on May 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
Matt Fuller, HuffPo: GOP Says It’s Getting Close On Health Care, But The Votes Still Aren’t There
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:04 PM on May 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
There is some resentment among rank-and-file Republicans that the Freedom Caucus was able to significantly change the legislation and undermine the pre-existing condition provision of the GOP health care plan, and there may be a growing feeling among moderates that they shouldn’t allow conservatives to control policy for everyone.More proof that the party is controlled by vicious bullies.
But, a senior GOP aide told HuffPost, leadership feels like they’re in a better position trying to flip moderate votes in the coming days than they would if they were trying to flip recalcitrant conservatives.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:04 PM on May 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
In case you thought that this campaign was about anymore more than hostility, deplorables, and provoking liberal tears, this:
posted by zachlipton at 9:05 PM on May 1, 2017 [32 favorites]
During their phone call the day after the election, smarting from Hillary Clinton’s stunning loss, Ms. Pelosi posed a question to the president-elect, noting his upsets in Michigan and Pennsylvania.Also, please enjoy Trump completely failing to understand a metaphor made by George W. Bush. You heard me. He has made W seem like a genius.
“What did you know?” she asked him.
“I saw the hostility,” Mr. Trump replied, according to Ms. Pelosi.
She praised Mrs. Clinton for her concession speech, telling Mr. Trump it “must have been very hard for her to do.” “It would have been hard for me, too,” she recalled him saying.
posted by zachlipton at 9:05 PM on May 1, 2017 [32 favorites]
I think one of my toes is conspiring with my kidneys to overthrow my nipples.
Plato wrote that some people are governed by their passions but that in philosopher-kings reason, with the help of the spirited element, would govern the passions. I would be curious to know how someone comes to be governed, in that Platonic sense, by his or her nipples.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:12 PM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Plato wrote that some people are governed by their passions but that in philosopher-kings reason, with the help of the spirited element, would govern the passions. I would be curious to know how someone comes to be governed, in that Platonic sense, by his or her nipples.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:12 PM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Also, please enjoy Trump completely failing to understand a metaphor made by George W. Bush.
Nothing goes over his head. His reflexes are too fast, he would catch it!
posted by dirigibleman at 9:16 PM on May 1, 2017 [11 favorites]
Nothing goes over his head. His reflexes are too fast, he would catch it!
posted by dirigibleman at 9:16 PM on May 1, 2017 [11 favorites]
There is some resentment among rank-and-file Republicans that the Freedom Caucus was able to significantly change the legislation and undermine the pre-existing condition provision of the GOP health care plan, and there may be a growing feeling among moderates that they shouldn’t allow conservatives to control policy for everyone.
If the GOP manages to spin this as "oops, our conservative wing got out of control" rather than "we're all a bunch of selfish, uncaring, exceptionalist scumbags", I'm gonna flip.
posted by spaceman_spiff at 9:25 PM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
If the GOP manages to spin this as "oops, our conservative wing got out of control" rather than "we're all a bunch of selfish, uncaring, exceptionalist scumbags", I'm gonna flip.
posted by spaceman_spiff at 9:25 PM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Perhaps someone can school me on twitter b/c in the 2 cases I point out below neither tweeter links to the source of their tweet that I can see. No actual link to the source article/comment. Perhaps I just fail at twitter?
Also, please enjoy Trump completely failing to understand a metaphor made by George W. Bush. You heard me. He has made W seem like a genius. posted by zachlipton.
(((Megan McArdle))) @asymmetricinfo - "Why was the north willing to invade another country over slavery?" Mobilizing a huge population for altruism is rare. mentioned upthread by Coventry. What is McArdle referring to? I googled and only came up with her tweet.
Am I an idiot or what? please don't answer that honestly :)
posted by futz at 9:46 PM on May 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Also, please enjoy Trump completely failing to understand a metaphor made by George W. Bush. You heard me. He has made W seem like a genius. posted by zachlipton.
(((Megan McArdle))) @asymmetricinfo - "Why was the north willing to invade another country over slavery?" Mobilizing a huge population for altruism is rare. mentioned upthread by Coventry. What is McArdle referring to? I googled and only came up with her tweet.
Am I an idiot or what? please don't answer that honestly :)
posted by futz at 9:46 PM on May 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Krissah Thompson WaPo: Trump administration denies it plans to end Michelle Obama’s girl’s education program
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:54 PM on May 1, 2017 [20 favorites]
Hours after CNN reported on an internal Peace Corps email that announced a plan to stop supporting the former first lady’s “Let Girls Learn” program, a White House spokesman said there had been no changes to the initiative.The fucker used a local elementary school as a backdrop for the Make Lunch Suck Again thing.
[…]
However, another program of the former first lady’s is definitely headed for the chopping block. After only six days on the job, President Trump’s agriculture secretary, Sonny Perdue, moved to stall the stricter nutritional standards for school breakfasts and lunches that Michelle Obama had pushed.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:54 PM on May 1, 2017 [20 favorites]
You're not an idiot. Neither of them linked to their source. It's an unfortunate thing that often happens when people tweet images of articles, because tweeting a link takes up a lot of characters. Good etiquette would at least be to reply to your own tweet with a link there, but that's not exactly common.
In the case of the George W. Bush metaphor, the source is the Trump interview with John Dickerson. That's not explicitly stated, but is identifiable from context. Here's the transcript.
I don't think McArdle actually had a source. I think she was just riffing on the Civil War, asking a question of herself and using quotation marks, but I'm devoting a fairly limited amount of resources to trying to understand her claptrap.
posted by zachlipton at 9:54 PM on May 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
In the case of the George W. Bush metaphor, the source is the Trump interview with John Dickerson. That's not explicitly stated, but is identifiable from context. Here's the transcript.
I don't think McArdle actually had a source. I think she was just riffing on the Civil War, asking a question of herself and using quotation marks, but I'm devoting a fairly limited amount of resources to trying to understand her claptrap.
posted by zachlipton at 9:54 PM on May 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
Marc A. Thiessen, WaPo: The past 100 days have been a disaster — for Democrats
Don't bother reading it, he's delusional, but this is something I keep seeing from the outraged Right:
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:06 PM on May 1, 2017 [23 favorites]
Don't bother reading it, he's delusional, but this is something I keep seeing from the outraged Right:
They see women marching in anti-Trump rallies wearing “pussy” hats (and placing them on the heads of young children).Are they so unfamiliar with anatomy that they think the hats are representations of vaginas?
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:06 PM on May 1, 2017 [23 favorites]
Michael Gerson, WaPo: Trump’s 100th-day speech may have been the most hate-filled in modern history
Well, that's enough for one day. Hasta mañana, amigos y amigas.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:10 PM on May 1, 2017 [35 favorites]
For those who claim that Donald Trump has been pasteurized and homogenized by the presidency, his sour, 100th-day speech in Harrisburg, Pa., was inconvenient.It's a good column. He compares the speech to Vaclav Havel’s essay “Politics, Morality and Civility”.
Trump used his high office to pursue divisive grudges (Senate Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer is a “bad leader”), to attack the media (composed of “incompetent, dishonest people”) and to savage congressional Democrats (“they don’t mind drugs pouring in”). Most of all, Trump used his bully pulpit quite literally, devoting about half his speech to the dehumanization of migrants and refugees as criminals, infiltrators and terrorists. Trump gained a kind of perverse energy from the rolling waves of hatred, culminating in the reading of racist song lyrics comparing his targets to vermin. It was a speech with all the logic, elevation and public purpose of a stink bomb.
Well, that's enough for one day. Hasta mañana, amigos y amigas.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:10 PM on May 1, 2017 [35 favorites]
¡Buenos nachos!
posted by Captain l'escalier at 10:18 PM on May 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Captain l'escalier at 10:18 PM on May 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
Regarding (emhasis mine):
posted by christopherious at 10:46 PM on May 1, 2017 [17 favorites]
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Well, there's truth to that. There is truth to that. There are certainly no corners. And you look, there's a certain openness. But there's nobody out there. You know, there is an openness, but I've never seen anybody out there actually, as you could imagine. (source again)I was immediately reminded of Pink Floyd's Is there Anybody Out There (YT), which prompted a Google search and led me to this summary which I can't source:
In questioning whether anybody is out there, Pink begins to realize the expansiveness of his wall and the consequences of his self-imposed reclusion.As I was thinking about the interesting parallels, I ended up watching that video yet again, and then I noticed that starting at 1:44 in the YouTube above, Pink has this broken television set that contains two cans of Coke and I remembered Trump's Magic Coke Button and got a little weirded out.
posted by christopherious at 10:46 PM on May 1, 2017 [17 favorites]
Trump: "People don't ask that question, but why was there the Civil War?"
i've noticed a certain quirk in the way Trump responds to surprising (to him) things. with regard to some issue of complexity he said something along the lines of 'it's not what you'd think'. with healthcare he said 'who would have thought it would be so hard'. here he is saying 'people don't ask the question'. it belies a tendency to believe that what he thinks, everybody thinks. that others must certainly apprehend reality in the same manner he does. this reinforces the idea of some kind of narcissistic or sociopathic disorder in which he is more real than others, or that others experience of reality is deeply entangled with his own.
this also reinforces the idea that the attainment of true happiness, one-ness with all, a state of complete spiritual fulfillment, would for me involve spending eternity bashing this man in the face with a coal shovel.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 10:48 PM on May 1, 2017 [31 favorites]
i've noticed a certain quirk in the way Trump responds to surprising (to him) things. with regard to some issue of complexity he said something along the lines of 'it's not what you'd think'. with healthcare he said 'who would have thought it would be so hard'. here he is saying 'people don't ask the question'. it belies a tendency to believe that what he thinks, everybody thinks. that others must certainly apprehend reality in the same manner he does. this reinforces the idea of some kind of narcissistic or sociopathic disorder in which he is more real than others, or that others experience of reality is deeply entangled with his own.
this also reinforces the idea that the attainment of true happiness, one-ness with all, a state of complete spiritual fulfillment, would for me involve spending eternity bashing this man in the face with a coal shovel.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 10:48 PM on May 1, 2017 [31 favorites]
Trumpgrams - A sampling of the handwritten love and hate notes the president has long sent to reporters.
posted by futz at 10:59 PM on May 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by futz at 10:59 PM on May 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
Remember in "The West Wing" when things like "The President doesn't like green beans" and "He didn't like a movie" and "The Surgeon General said legalizing pot might be OK" were huge PR crises that the white house had to spend a week dealing with? And this President (or his party) has aides who can come right out and say "He's a crazy fuck" and nobody bothers to make a big deal of it at all?
um, for my money, it's a genuine problem that there are people for whom "The West Wing" is somehow reflective of reality, or some sort of historical benchmark.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 12:03 AM on May 2, 2017 [12 favorites]
um, for my money, it's a genuine problem that there are people for whom "The West Wing" is somehow reflective of reality, or some sort of historical benchmark.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 12:03 AM on May 2, 2017 [12 favorites]
It used to be vaguely reflective of reality -- for example there was a big kerfuffle about Bush not liking Broccoli, that one's taken straight from reality.
TWW used to feel like an idealistic version of a presidency, but now it feels like a bizarre alternate universe cartoon world that has no connection to reality.
posted by mmoncur at 12:08 AM on May 2, 2017 [10 favorites]
TWW used to feel like an idealistic version of a presidency, but now it feels like a bizarre alternate universe cartoon world that has no connection to reality.
posted by mmoncur at 12:08 AM on May 2, 2017 [10 favorites]
People have argued that the President is a unique kind of Philistind, unique in his lack of appreciation for anything except for women's bodies, or his hatred of everything. The notion of him as a deviant nullity is somehow easy to dissociate from the masses of voters who said yes to him.
This is partly because we are encouraged to humanize said voters: to find nuance in them, or think of them as misguided, or as very passionate white nationalists. By contrast, the President remains clearly defined as a singular, I'd-driven void. This is perhaps a mischaracterization, but it seems to have followed him throughout his career and life. Say what you want about Richard Spencer, he cares about something.
This is dangerous. One of the terrible things we must do is come to terms with the idea that nothing is unique, and there are countless people around the country and the world who are this empty. The notion is depressing and causes my mind to boggle a bit. But such shallowness may be next door.
posted by Going To Maine at 2:18 AM on May 2, 2017 [9 favorites]
This is partly because we are encouraged to humanize said voters: to find nuance in them, or think of them as misguided, or as very passionate white nationalists. By contrast, the President remains clearly defined as a singular, I'd-driven void. This is perhaps a mischaracterization, but it seems to have followed him throughout his career and life. Say what you want about Richard Spencer, he cares about something.
This is dangerous. One of the terrible things we must do is come to terms with the idea that nothing is unique, and there are countless people around the country and the world who are this empty. The notion is depressing and causes my mind to boggle a bit. But such shallowness may be next door.
posted by Going To Maine at 2:18 AM on May 2, 2017 [9 favorites]
They see women marching in anti-Trump rallies wearing “pussy” hats (and placing them on the heads of young children).Are they so unfamiliar with anatomy that they think the hats are representations of vaginas?
That's what the hats' own wearers and makers called them. There's many things you can blame Thiessen for, but using the same name for the hats which is used by the left is not one of them.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 3:45 AM on May 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
That's what the hats' own wearers and makers called them. There's many things you can blame Thiessen for, but using the same name for the hats which is used by the left is not one of them.
Pretty sure the issue wasn't his use of the word "pussy" but the idea that it was disgusting/wrong to have children wearing them. Since the hats are a representation of the other definition of "pussy", not vaginas. And it's rich for Republicans like Thiessen to be outraged at the double entendre use of pussy when they had no issue with Trump's explicitly sexual use of the term. And not just sexual, but molestation.
posted by chris24 at 4:16 AM on May 2, 2017 [65 favorites]
Pretty sure the issue wasn't his use of the word "pussy" but the idea that it was disgusting/wrong to have children wearing them. Since the hats are a representation of the other definition of "pussy", not vaginas. And it's rich for Republicans like Thiessen to be outraged at the double entendre use of pussy when they had no issue with Trump's explicitly sexual use of the term. And not just sexual, but molestation.
posted by chris24 at 4:16 AM on May 2, 2017 [65 favorites]
Well this will cause a tantrum by the Breitbart babies
WSj: Trump Adviser Jared Kushner Didn’t Disclose Startup Stake
WSj: Trump Adviser Jared Kushner Didn’t Disclose Startup Stake
Mr. Kushner’s stake in Cadre—a tech startup that pairs investors with big real-estate projects—means the senior White House official is currently a business partner of Goldman Sachs Group Inc. GS 0.47% and billionaires including George Soros and Peter Thiel, according to people close to the company.posted by OnceUponATime at 4:45 AM on May 2, 2017 [16 favorites]
And in this timeline Ross Douthat uses his column in the NYT to endorse Marine Le Pen as President of France over her opponent, whom he calls " a callow creature of a failed consensus".
Add Yglesias to the 'Le Pen is not that bad' crowd. Is it really that hard to figure out that it's the fascism that's the issue with Trump/Le Pen, not the competence? And personally, I prefer my fascists not able to make the trains run on time. Easier to defeat, less damage done.
@mattyglesias
The Trump/Le Pen comparisons are incredibly unfair to a woman who, like her or not, actually has some understanding of the issues.
posted by chris24 at 4:45 AM on May 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
Add Yglesias to the 'Le Pen is not that bad' crowd. Is it really that hard to figure out that it's the fascism that's the issue with Trump/Le Pen, not the competence? And personally, I prefer my fascists not able to make the trains run on time. Easier to defeat, less damage done.
@mattyglesias
The Trump/Le Pen comparisons are incredibly unfair to a woman who, like her or not, actually has some understanding of the issues.
posted by chris24 at 4:45 AM on May 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
Glib Contarian Troll is a media creation I can't wait to see die off
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:53 AM on May 2, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:53 AM on May 2, 2017 [27 favorites]
Also, please enjoy Trump completely failing to understand a metaphor made by George W. Bush. You heard me. He has made W seem like a genius.
The thing about that metaphor story... boy is it revealing about Trump. Bush noted the Oval Office has no corners to hide in, and he meant there's nowhere for him to hide when people come looking for answers. Trump's misread indicates he's thinking there's nowhere for someone else to hide (maybe to hurt him or help him or spy on him). Trump's response reveals his depth of paranoia.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 5:11 AM on May 2, 2017 [59 favorites]
The thing about that metaphor story... boy is it revealing about Trump. Bush noted the Oval Office has no corners to hide in, and he meant there's nowhere for him to hide when people come looking for answers. Trump's misread indicates he's thinking there's nowhere for someone else to hide (maybe to hurt him or help him or spy on him). Trump's response reveals his depth of paranoia.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 5:11 AM on May 2, 2017 [59 favorites]
The notion of him as a deviant nullity is somehow easy to dissociate from the masses of voters who said yes to him
Yeah, just because we want policies that would also help these people doesn't mean we shouldn't also remember that there is a mass of Americans (and other humans) who are willfully ignorant, lacking in basic empathy, and whose ill-considered opinions should perhaps be ignored a little more often.
@mattyglesias . . . Le Pen
I've said it before in these pages, but Yglesias is a click-baiting dick who will veer straight off into fedora territory within the next few years, if he hasn't already.
posted by aspersioncast at 5:25 AM on May 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
Yeah, just because we want policies that would also help these people doesn't mean we shouldn't also remember that there is a mass of Americans (and other humans) who are willfully ignorant, lacking in basic empathy, and whose ill-considered opinions should perhaps be ignored a little more often.
@mattyglesias . . . Le Pen
I've said it before in these pages, but Yglesias is a click-baiting dick who will veer straight off into fedora territory within the next few years, if he hasn't already.
posted by aspersioncast at 5:25 AM on May 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
“The theory of relativity is a theory and some people accept it, but that requires somewhat of a degree of faith,” Dr. Green suggested.
Does he believe that GPS exists?
posted by srboisvert at 5:32 AM on May 2, 2017 [13 favorites]
Does he believe that GPS exists?
posted by srboisvert at 5:32 AM on May 2, 2017 [13 favorites]
> Trump's misread indicates he's thinking there's nowhere for someone else to hide
I took it as being completely literal, as in there's nowhere for him to physically hide from someone peering in from the outside. It's probably disconcerting having ground floor windows.
posted by lucidium at 5:53 AM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
I took it as being completely literal, as in there's nowhere for him to physically hide from someone peering in from the outside. It's probably disconcerting having ground floor windows.
posted by lucidium at 5:53 AM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
I took it as being completely literal, as in there's nowhere for him to physically hide from someone peering in from the outside. It's probably disconcerting having ground floor windows.
Yeah he interpreted it in the most literal sense possible. My back is to these windows that look out onto the white house grounds and anyone could be looking in and there would be nowhere for me to hide. Basically he interpreted the oval office the way a mafia boss does a restaurant.
posted by dis_integration at 6:06 AM on May 2, 2017 [15 favorites]
Yeah he interpreted it in the most literal sense possible. My back is to these windows that look out onto the white house grounds and anyone could be looking in and there would be nowhere for me to hide. Basically he interpreted the oval office the way a mafia boss does a restaurant.
posted by dis_integration at 6:06 AM on May 2, 2017 [15 favorites]
Meet two progressive candidates running in North Carolina against two of the worst Republicans in Congress in deep red gerrymandered districts - Matt Coffay running against Mark Meadows; and Jenny Marshall against Virginia Foxx.
Neither of them is likely to see a dollar from the DCCC or DNC, but the 50 state strategy isn't something that has to be from the top down. New progressive organizations can do it without official party support, and we need candidates in every race.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:13 AM on May 2, 2017 [33 favorites]
Neither of them is likely to see a dollar from the DCCC or DNC, but the 50 state strategy isn't something that has to be from the top down. New progressive organizations can do it without official party support, and we need candidates in every race.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:13 AM on May 2, 2017 [33 favorites]
Remember this Trump tweet in September
"either elect more Republican Senators in 2018 or change the rules now to 51%. Our country needs a good "shutdown" in September to fix mess!"
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:15 AM on May 2, 2017 [12 favorites]
"either elect more Republican Senators in 2018 or change the rules now to 51%. Our country needs a good "shutdown" in September to fix mess!"
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:15 AM on May 2, 2017 [12 favorites]
Remember this Trump tweet in September
I've spent the last ten minutes trying to wrap my head around that tweet.
posted by INFJ at 6:17 AM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
I've spent the last ten minutes trying to wrap my head around that tweet.
posted by INFJ at 6:17 AM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
WaPo: An emotional Jimmy Kimmel discusses newborn son’s heart disease, makes passionate health-care plea
His son was born 4/21. When the heart disease was diagnosed, it required immediate open heart surgery. This segued into:
His son was born 4/21. When the heart disease was diagnosed, it required immediate open heart surgery. This segued into:
Then he switched gears, turning serious again. “President Trump last month proposed a $6 billion cut in funding to the National Institute of Health, and thank God our congressmen made a deal last night to not go along with that. They actually increased funding by $2 billion, and I applaud them for doing that,” Kimmel said. “Because more than 40 percent of the people who would have been affected by those cuts to the National Institute of Health are children.”posted by ZeusHumms at 6:19 AM on May 2, 2017 [49 favorites]
“We were brought up to believe that we live in the greatest country in the world, but until a few years ago, millions and millions of us had no access to health insurance at all,” he continued. “Before 2014, if you were born with congenital heart disease like my son was, there was a good chance you would never be able to get health insurance because you had a preexisting condition. You were born with a preexisting condition, and if your parents didn’t have medical insurance, you might not even live long enough to get denied because of a preexisting condition.”
As I was thinking about the interesting parallels, I ended up watching that video yet again, and then I noticed that starting at 1:44 in the YouTube above, Pink has this broken television set that contains two cans of Coke and I remembered Trump's Magic Coke Button and got a little weirded out.
Hmm. I'm going to try watching Trump's inauguration while listening to Dark Side of the Moon. Wish me luck. There's a good chance I don't make it out.
posted by diogenes at 6:33 AM on May 2, 2017 [10 favorites]
Hmm. I'm going to try watching Trump's inauguration while listening to Dark Side of the Moon. Wish me luck. There's a good chance I don't make it out.
posted by diogenes at 6:33 AM on May 2, 2017 [10 favorites]
... also reinforces the idea that the attainment of true happiness, one-ness with all, a state of complete spiritual fulfillment, would for me involve spending eternity bashing this man in the face with a coal shovel
Dear Satan,
Re: our meeting with Inhuman Resources on Wednesday - think I've found a candidate for the "demon of punishment" role (the EVP-level position) in our new, deepest level of Hell - the one we're building for you-know-who. I haven't checked him out on LinkedIn but he's got some great references from MetaFilter, and I think he's even got his own shovel. Could be just the guy! Shall I set up an interview? I'll call your PA.
Thanks -
quidnunc kid
Vice President, Infernal Operations
Legal Notice: if you have received this email in error, it's just as well because ... this whole email is "fake". It's not even an email. And I'm not actually a VP of Hell ... I'm just an unpaid intern there. I mean, it's a great thing to have on my CV, don't get me wrong, but ... yeah. OK - hail Satan!
posted by the quidnunc kid at 6:37 AM on May 2, 2017 [27 favorites]
Dear Satan,
Re: our meeting with Inhuman Resources on Wednesday - think I've found a candidate for the "demon of punishment" role (the EVP-level position) in our new, deepest level of Hell - the one we're building for you-know-who. I haven't checked him out on LinkedIn but he's got some great references from MetaFilter, and I think he's even got his own shovel. Could be just the guy! Shall I set up an interview? I'll call your PA.
Thanks -
quidnunc kid
Vice President, Infernal Operations
Legal Notice: if you have received this email in error, it's just as well because ... this whole email is "fake". It's not even an email. And I'm not actually a VP of Hell ... I'm just an unpaid intern there. I mean, it's a great thing to have on my CV, don't get me wrong, but ... yeah. OK - hail Satan!
posted by the quidnunc kid at 6:37 AM on May 2, 2017 [27 favorites]
Are they so unfamiliar with anatomy that they think the hats are representations of vaginas?
In absolute seriousness and with not even the tiniest bit of irony:
The first several times I heard of them and saw photos of them, I thought they were badly-executed representations of the clitoral glans.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:40 AM on May 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
In absolute seriousness and with not even the tiniest bit of irony:
The first several times I heard of them and saw photos of them, I thought they were badly-executed representations of the clitoral glans.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:40 AM on May 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
Jeez, quidnunc kid. Everyone knows that Demon of Punishment isn't an employment position, it's elected.
Vote #1 quidnunc kid!
posted by Talez at 6:41 AM on May 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
Vote #1 quidnunc kid!
posted by Talez at 6:41 AM on May 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
ROU_Xenophobe: I thought they were badly-executed representations of the clitoral glans.
But... how? I mean... how? Just....
...
... How?
posted by Too-Ticky at 6:44 AM on May 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
But... how? I mean... how? Just....
...
... How?
posted by Too-Ticky at 6:44 AM on May 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
But... how? I mean... how?
It's pink. It's called a pussy hat. I didn't look very closely at the first few I saw. I thought maybe the knitting wasn't very good.
posted by diogenes at 6:47 AM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
It's pink. It's called a pussy hat. I didn't look very closely at the first few I saw. I thought maybe the knitting wasn't very good.
posted by diogenes at 6:47 AM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
It's completely fascinating to me how every wearer/ maker of the pussy hats sees them as a pun (they're kitty-cat hats that are a response to Trump's other use of the word pussy), and every single critic seems to think they are a literal representation of female genitalia. And guys, if knitters wanted to make a vulva hat, we could do a better job than that.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:49 AM on May 2, 2017 [75 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:49 AM on May 2, 2017 [75 favorites]
Also, please enjoy Trump completely failing to understand a metaphor made by George W. Bush. You heard me. He has made W seem like a genius.
His anecdote about "the tough person" who cried in the Oval Office is another surreal moment. And then the part about the desks:
posted by octobersurprise at 6:50 AM on May 2, 2017 [13 favorites]
His anecdote about "the tough person" who cried in the Oval Office is another surreal moment. And then the part about the desks:
In fact I have fun with people. They'll be sitting down. I changed the—the way it works. I'll have people sitting here. Used to be they never had chairs that anybody can remember in front of the desk. But I've always done it this way where I'm at the desk and I have people here.Great desks, much bigly. Part of me wants to appreciate this as the absurdist theater it sounds like—The Desks—and part of me wants to cry, too. I guess I can do both.
But usually they would sit on the sofas. But this is the Resolute desk. It's a great desk with a phenomenal history. Many great presidents were behind this desk. And then some choose other desks. They have about seven desks that you can actually choose. But I like this. This was FDR. It was Ronald Reagan. It was Kennedy. And there's some great presidents behind this desk.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:50 AM on May 2, 2017 [13 favorites]
And guys, if knitters wanted to make a vulva hat, we could do a better job than that.
See, as a knitter, you know that. But for all I know it's incredibly difficult to make a vulva hat, so you tried to make a clitoral glans hat, and the result looked like a pink hat with ears.
posted by diogenes at 6:53 AM on May 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
See, as a knitter, you know that. But for all I know it's incredibly difficult to make a vulva hat, so you tried to make a clitoral glans hat, and the result looked like a pink hat with ears.
posted by diogenes at 6:53 AM on May 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
See, as a knitter, you know that. But for all I know it's incredibly difficult to make a vulva hat, so you tried to make a clitoral glans hat, and the result looked like a pink hat with ears.
Ok, first glance, not a knitter, etc., etc. Confusion. But now three and a half months after the Women's March, it's quite clear that the intent and end result of the hats is a cat hat, not genitalia. Thiessen wrote his diatribe yesterday.
posted by chris24 at 7:03 AM on May 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
Ok, first glance, not a knitter, etc., etc. Confusion. But now three and a half months after the Women's March, it's quite clear that the intent and end result of the hats is a cat hat, not genitalia. Thiessen wrote his diatribe yesterday.
posted by chris24 at 7:03 AM on May 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
Thiessen wrote his diatribe yesterday.
Not defending him. Even if they were intended to be clitoris hats, that would be a perfectly fine thing to make and wear and a perfectly fine thing to put on your kid, especially as an act of protest.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:12 AM on May 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
Not defending him. Even if they were intended to be clitoris hats, that would be a perfectly fine thing to make and wear and a perfectly fine thing to put on your kid, especially as an act of protest.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:12 AM on May 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
But for all I know it's incredibly difficult to make a vulva hat, so you tried to make a clitoral glans hat, and the result looked like a pink hat with ears.
Occam's Razor! Paging Occam's Razor! "That hat looks like it has two triangular ears. It's called a pussy hat. Clearly this means that it was meant to be a vulva hat but that's too hard to make so now it's a clitoris hat."
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:14 AM on May 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
Occam's Razor! Paging Occam's Razor! "That hat looks like it has two triangular ears. It's called a pussy hat. Clearly this means that it was meant to be a vulva hat but that's too hard to make so now it's a clitoris hat."
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:14 AM on May 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
Occam's Razor! Paging Occam's Razor! "That hat looks like it has two triangular ears. It's called a pussy hat. Clearly this means that it was meant to be a vulva hat but that's too hard to make so now it's a clitoris hat."
They are using Occam's Razor. They just think it's more likely that there's some grand conspiracy of liberal women trying to appear legitimate while trolling the fuck out of conservatives by being secretly lewd.
posted by Talez at 7:16 AM on May 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
They are using Occam's Razor. They just think it's more likely that there's some grand conspiracy of liberal women trying to appear legitimate while trolling the fuck out of conservatives by being secretly lewd.
posted by Talez at 7:16 AM on May 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
Those are supposed to be cats? Really?
Y'all can't knit cats
posted by thelonius at 7:17 AM on May 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
Y'all can't knit cats
posted by thelonius at 7:17 AM on May 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
Why a woman would marry a man who can't tell the difference between a vulva and kitty cat ears I'll never know.
posted by valkane at 7:20 AM on May 2, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by valkane at 7:20 AM on May 2, 2017 [28 favorites]
I think the hidden fear behind the knitted hats is that parents and their children are marching - or being strollered - together in what seem to be family-friendly events. Any politician who thinks more than 2 terms into the future must be terrified about the day today's kids become voters.
posted by klarck at 7:20 AM on May 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by klarck at 7:20 AM on May 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
Wait, that puts it off on the woman..... my apologies.
Why a person would think they are worthy of marriage when they can't tell the difference between a vulva and kitty cat ears, I'll never know.
posted by valkane at 7:22 AM on May 2, 2017 [9 favorites]
Why a person would think they are worthy of marriage when they can't tell the difference between a vulva and kitty cat ears, I'll never know.
posted by valkane at 7:22 AM on May 2, 2017 [9 favorites]
I think the hidden fear behind the knitted hats is that parents and their children are marching - or being strollered - together in what seem to be family-friendly events.
The Venn diagram of people complaining about the pussy hats, and the people concern-trolling about naughty words on protest signs, is just one big circle.
posted by Mayor West at 7:24 AM on May 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
The Venn diagram of people complaining about the pussy hats, and the people concern-trolling about naughty words on protest signs, is just one big circle.
posted by Mayor West at 7:24 AM on May 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
Maybe there was no Civil War. Maybe it's just something made up by liberals and slavery never existed. I think one of my toes is conspiring with my kidneys to overthrow my nipples.
FORT SUMTER WAS A FALSE FLAG
or an inside job
posted by murphy slaw at 7:26 AM on May 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
FORT SUMTER WAS A FALSE FLAG
or an inside job
posted by murphy slaw at 7:26 AM on May 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
I agree that I don't think the cat ear hats look all that much like cat ears. However, it was an easy pattern for newbies to make and I think that was the selling point on that. Plus people would rather dress like cats than a vulva.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:26 AM on May 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:26 AM on May 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
Ivanka is a liar just like her entire family. People need to stop looking at her like some kind of savior, or even a reasonable good faith actor. She's not. She's evil. She exploits her employees, uses her access to fleece the public, and lies about trying to influence the President to moderate his destructive agenda to trade on her image and increase her own statute.
She's criminally complicit in every single aspect of Trump's crimes. She's in the room for every bad decision. She's the one holding her father's hand as his mental faculties clearly decline. She may be making some of his decisions for him, and those decisions are evil. Ivanka is a bad person.
This isn't hard. IINYF.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:27 AM on May 2, 2017 [58 favorites]
She's criminally complicit in every single aspect of Trump's crimes. She's in the room for every bad decision. She's the one holding her father's hand as his mental faculties clearly decline. She may be making some of his decisions for him, and those decisions are evil. Ivanka is a bad person.
This isn't hard. IINYF.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:27 AM on May 2, 2017 [58 favorites]
people think ivanka trump is 'the good one' because she's the only one in the entire family who has learned to feign empathy
posted by murphy slaw at 7:29 AM on May 2, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 7:29 AM on May 2, 2017 [26 favorites]
Why a person would think they are worthy of marriage when they can't tell the difference between a vulva and kitty cat ears, I'll never know.
That's not a good reason that nobody should love me and I should be alone forever. Nobody should love me because... the song at the end of Grease? Until I was in my 20s or 30s, I thought that was a nonsense song like putting the ram in the ramalamadingdong: Yuggaleggalaweg, yuggaleggalaleggalaweg, ooh ooh ooh. Also there is a song on the Burnout Paradise soundtrack that I thought was "I can see mice on the outside," which.. yeah? That's how you usually see mice?
All of which is to say that broad and severe classification errors are not something new to me.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:30 AM on May 2, 2017 [13 favorites]
That's not a good reason that nobody should love me and I should be alone forever. Nobody should love me because... the song at the end of Grease? Until I was in my 20s or 30s, I thought that was a nonsense song like putting the ram in the ramalamadingdong: Yuggaleggalaweg, yuggaleggalaleggalaweg, ooh ooh ooh. Also there is a song on the Burnout Paradise soundtrack that I thought was "I can see mice on the outside," which.. yeah? That's how you usually see mice?
All of which is to say that broad and severe classification errors are not something new to me.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:30 AM on May 2, 2017 [13 favorites]
"Trump told me a year and a half ago or so, a year ago, that he thought he could have done a deal, to have averted the [civil] war."
Dude can't conspire with his own party to replace the one piece of legislature both he and the entire senate campaigned on repealing, but I'm sure he could have gotten the abolitionists and the slaveholders together for a nice civil sitdown in antebellum Virginia.
posted by Mayor West at 7:30 AM on May 2, 2017 [40 favorites]
Dude can't conspire with his own party to replace the one piece of legislature both he and the entire senate campaigned on repealing, but I'm sure he could have gotten the abolitionists and the slaveholders together for a nice civil sitdown in antebellum Virginia.
posted by Mayor West at 7:30 AM on May 2, 2017 [40 favorites]
"Trump told me a year and a half ago or so, a year ago, that he thought he could have done a deal, to have averted the [civil] war."
Given that the confederacy was a response to Lincoln's election there's not really a deal to be made other than "don't look like you're abolishing slavery while being elected and we won't try to burn it all down".
posted by Talez at 7:31 AM on May 2, 2017
Given that the confederacy was a response to Lincoln's election there's not really a deal to be made other than "don't look like you're abolishing slavery while being elected and we won't try to burn it all down".
posted by Talez at 7:31 AM on May 2, 2017
Yes, I'm sorry, even my last was gender messed up and making marriage seem like some kind of end-all be-all, so I'll leave it at this: learn anatomy. It improves your technique. And we all want to give our loved ones the best.
posted by valkane at 7:33 AM on May 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by valkane at 7:33 AM on May 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
Mod note: Gently, that's probably enough on the anatomy and hats.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 7:45 AM on May 2, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 7:45 AM on May 2, 2017 [17 favorites]
What possible deal could Trump have made to avert the Civil War given his tactic of folding at the first opportunity? Yeah, okay fine. You guys can keep having slaves.
posted by notyou at 7:54 AM on May 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by notyou at 7:54 AM on May 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
Dunno. I find it quite easy to believe that in Lincoln's shoes Trump could have rolled over and let the union break apart and shrugged off continuing slavery. This seems inconsistent with his governance so far to the rest of you?
posted by phearlez at 7:55 AM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by phearlez at 7:55 AM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
Were up to 58,000 citizens in Maricopa County denied right to vote? [warning: autoplay video]
Basically, if a voter registration form didn't have proof of citizenship, they denied it and filed it away in a warehouse. The newly-elected Maricopa County Vote Recorder is a Democrat who is tracking down these registrations and helping to get them approved:
posted by melissasaurus at 7:59 AM on May 2, 2017 [57 favorites]
Basically, if a voter registration form didn't have proof of citizenship, they denied it and filed it away in a warehouse. The newly-elected Maricopa County Vote Recorder is a Democrat who is tracking down these registrations and helping to get them approved:
He has hired additional employees to research the citizenship status of would-be voters through the state Motor Vehicle Department, which began verifying citizenship for driver's licenses two decades ago. If the Recorder's Office finds proof of citizenship for a prospective voter in the database, Fontes has directed staffers to add that voter to the rolls.This is why local races are so important!!!!
A recent sample of 74 forms pulled from warehouse boxes and checked against the MVD system found 43 citizens whose voter registrations were denied because they failed to submit proof, Fontes said.
The sample is far from scientific. But if the rate holds, it could mean as many as 58,000 eligible voters in Maricopa County have been disenfranchised, he said.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:59 AM on May 2, 2017 [57 favorites]
"Trump told me a year and a half ago or so, a year ago, that he thought he could have done a deal, to have averted the [civil] war."
Yeah OK whatever. This just goes to show that words have no meaning for him, morality has no meaning, it's all about "Donald Trump is bigly and could have done the deal." Next up: he could've done a deal to prevent the Kennedy assassination, to prevent World War II, to kick the Golden Horde out of Eastern Europe. Sure, Donny, whatever. You could've done the deal. May I suggest a round of golf in lieu of signing that next bill?
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 8:00 AM on May 2, 2017 [9 favorites]
Yeah OK whatever. This just goes to show that words have no meaning for him, morality has no meaning, it's all about "Donald Trump is bigly and could have done the deal." Next up: he could've done a deal to prevent the Kennedy assassination, to prevent World War II, to kick the Golden Horde out of Eastern Europe. Sure, Donny, whatever. You could've done the deal. May I suggest a round of golf in lieu of signing that next bill?
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 8:00 AM on May 2, 2017 [9 favorites]
One of the stupidest things about this stupid presidency so far is how The Idiot bloviates some moronic bilge and that's not only news but it manages draw focus to the cretinous things he says rather than the imbecilic things his admin does.
posted by aspersioncast at 8:03 AM on May 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by aspersioncast at 8:03 AM on May 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
Reagan, GWB, Trump...the next Republican President is going to be a jellyfish or a lava lamp.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:09 AM on May 2, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:09 AM on May 2, 2017 [32 favorites]
"Here is the current HuffPost whip count on the latest version of the GOP health care proposal. This whip count is based on conversations with lawmakers and staffers with knowledge of how members are voting. Not every lawmaker on this list has confirmed how he or she will vote ― this is our best guess"
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:11 AM on May 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:11 AM on May 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
What possible deal could Trump have made to avert the Civil War given his tactic of folding at the first opportunity?
There were a lot of moments in history when, looking back, it would be reasonable to say that different actions by different statesmen could have averted the Civil War, and many fascinating alternative history books have been written about many of them.
However, given present conditions, I think we must assume Trump's negotiations to avoid the Civil War would have involved giving everything south of Manhattan to the Confederacy, and he would have bragged about what a great deal he made.
posted by corb at 8:11 AM on May 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
There were a lot of moments in history when, looking back, it would be reasonable to say that different actions by different statesmen could have averted the Civil War, and many fascinating alternative history books have been written about many of them.
However, given present conditions, I think we must assume Trump's negotiations to avoid the Civil War would have involved giving everything south of Manhattan to the Confederacy, and he would have bragged about what a great deal he made.
posted by corb at 8:11 AM on May 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
But I've always done it this way where I'm at the desk and I have people here.
That's because the desk is largely ceremonial, it's not actually intended to be used as a desk. Furthermore, it's generally a bad idea to setup every interaction with whoever you're meeting with in the oval office as adversarial. You usually get more favorable outcomes by having more casual seating that, and this is key, doesn't put a big, imposing obstacle between you and the people you're trying to work with.
When I was selling cars for a living, we actually talked about desks in about the same context. Sitting at a desk to talk to someone about a car deal is kind of what's expected but we want to avoid such an explicitly adversarial setting. The other manipulative thing that dovetails onto this is that new cars come with a customer satisfaction survey. So the salesperson's job is basically to ask the customer to buy the car. The salesperson has no authority to change the price so the customer is sort of negotiating with the manager through the salesperson and it's often pretty quick and painless because we priced things aggressively and weren't shy about proving it (new car invoice prices are on the internet). But if things start to get the least bit adversarial, the manager will come talk directly to the customer. They usually do this by pulling up a chair NEXT to the customer. That way, you're on the same side of the desk as your "adversary" and the person across the desk still feels like they're on your side. In a real sense, the salesperson IS on your side because if you get the price you want, they get to sell a car. Even at a loss, the real money is in unit bonuses.
I could write a similar couple of paragraphs about handshakes and how to frame closing questions too. It's stuff we talked about a LOT in the car business. However, that because we have a LOT of downtime. Additionally, there have been many sales training programs that will cover all that in great detail. Good salespeople will certainly be aware of that stuff and put it into practice but while it IS effective they also know that it doesn't actually have a ton of impact and basically never makes the difference between selling a car or not. The stuff that makes a real difference is being open and honest, talking to and treating people like people deserving of respect, listening to their wants and needs, and asking them to buy the damn thing.
But that requires being a decent human being while you can sound like a skilled salesperson and talk a big game and not having to acknowledge your customers as actual human beings by focusing on dumb shit like handshakes and desks. And of course he takes a way to subtly suggest to someone that they're on the same side working towards a common goal to get things done and turned it into an opportunity to exert dominance over someone.
If I really wanted to read into it, I'd say that he does these things to satisfy his own ego. He needs to have concrete things he can do that don't depend on the other person's reaction very much so that he can demonstrate to himself that he's "the alpha". No matter what else happens, he can do some mental gymnastics and say to himself, "Look at how dominant you were! You owned that handshake and look at how they had to sit in front of your big impressive desk! Not like weak Obama always sitting on couches. Let's have some hookers pee on his couches again." He'll just ignore everything else and use the desk bullshit to convince himself he's awesome.
posted by VTX at 8:13 AM on May 2, 2017 [35 favorites]
That's because the desk is largely ceremonial, it's not actually intended to be used as a desk. Furthermore, it's generally a bad idea to setup every interaction with whoever you're meeting with in the oval office as adversarial. You usually get more favorable outcomes by having more casual seating that, and this is key, doesn't put a big, imposing obstacle between you and the people you're trying to work with.
When I was selling cars for a living, we actually talked about desks in about the same context. Sitting at a desk to talk to someone about a car deal is kind of what's expected but we want to avoid such an explicitly adversarial setting. The other manipulative thing that dovetails onto this is that new cars come with a customer satisfaction survey. So the salesperson's job is basically to ask the customer to buy the car. The salesperson has no authority to change the price so the customer is sort of negotiating with the manager through the salesperson and it's often pretty quick and painless because we priced things aggressively and weren't shy about proving it (new car invoice prices are on the internet). But if things start to get the least bit adversarial, the manager will come talk directly to the customer. They usually do this by pulling up a chair NEXT to the customer. That way, you're on the same side of the desk as your "adversary" and the person across the desk still feels like they're on your side. In a real sense, the salesperson IS on your side because if you get the price you want, they get to sell a car. Even at a loss, the real money is in unit bonuses.
I could write a similar couple of paragraphs about handshakes and how to frame closing questions too. It's stuff we talked about a LOT in the car business. However, that because we have a LOT of downtime. Additionally, there have been many sales training programs that will cover all that in great detail. Good salespeople will certainly be aware of that stuff and put it into practice but while it IS effective they also know that it doesn't actually have a ton of impact and basically never makes the difference between selling a car or not. The stuff that makes a real difference is being open and honest, talking to and treating people like people deserving of respect, listening to their wants and needs, and asking them to buy the damn thing.
But that requires being a decent human being while you can sound like a skilled salesperson and talk a big game and not having to acknowledge your customers as actual human beings by focusing on dumb shit like handshakes and desks. And of course he takes a way to subtly suggest to someone that they're on the same side working towards a common goal to get things done and turned it into an opportunity to exert dominance over someone.
If I really wanted to read into it, I'd say that he does these things to satisfy his own ego. He needs to have concrete things he can do that don't depend on the other person's reaction very much so that he can demonstrate to himself that he's "the alpha". No matter what else happens, he can do some mental gymnastics and say to himself, "Look at how dominant you were! You owned that handshake and look at how they had to sit in front of your big impressive desk! Not like weak Obama always sitting on couches. Let's have some hookers pee on his couches again." He'll just ignore everything else and use the desk bullshit to convince himself he's awesome.
posted by VTX at 8:13 AM on May 2, 2017 [35 favorites]
The Middle-Class Tax Cut That Wasn’t
In an interview yesterday on CBS This Morning, National Economic Council Director Gary Cohn made the following case for the Trump “middle-class tax cut”: "[hypothetical family with $56K income and 1-2 kids]...you know, very marginal, single-digit tax rate to no taxes whatsoever. That, to me, is a middle-income tax cut because you’re going to owe no taxes potentially." [...]posted by melissasaurus at 8:20 AM on May 2, 2017 [14 favorites]
[W]hen you take into account the elimination of personal exemptions, families aren’t actually getting much tax relief after all. In fact, if that family has two or more kids, they’d actually face a tax increase under the Trump plan described by Cohn.
Less pussy and more purry
Full of sound and furry.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:26 AM on May 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
Full of sound and furry.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:26 AM on May 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
Brian Beutler: Bret Stephens’s Opinions Aren’t the Problem
Imagine scientists discovered a large asteroid on a collision course with Earth, but couldn’t say for certain whether it would extinguish all life on the planet, or disintegrate before impact and cause significantly less damage. The ensuing debate over how to intercept the asteroid might be fierce, but the argument that the federal government had little or no proper role to play in destroying or deflecting it wouldn’t get very far at all.posted by zombieflanders at 8:30 AM on May 2, 2017 [34 favorites]
U.S. conservatives face a similar predicament across a wide range of issues, including climate change, but few of them are prepared to do the dull, repetitive, and frequently unconvincing work of explaining why their opposition to an active federal government should trump other urgent concerns. It would be unpersuasive to argue, “Stopping runaway climate change requires federal interventions that I object to on the following abstract ideological grounds” over and over again. Applying the same principles to other pressing questions—like whether we should reduce the rate of uninsurance, or provide poor children adequate nutrition—yields similarly unsatisfying arguments.
The remedy most conservatives have adopted, consciously or otherwise, is to devise more genial justifications for their conclusions and use those to backfill their arguments. New York magazine’s Jonathan Chait called this “a tic of American conservative-movement thought — the conclusion (small government) is fixed, and the reasoning is tailored to justify the outcome. Nearly all conservatives argue this way...”
Has the fucker ever even sought a deal in anything? Deals do not seem to be his thing, just incoherent edicts.
posted by Artw at 8:49 AM on May 2, 2017
posted by Artw at 8:49 AM on May 2, 2017
> Dunno. I find it quite easy to believe that in Lincoln's shoes Trump could have rolled over and let the union break apart and shrugged off continuing slavery.
Pre-Civil War Trump would have been a slaver. Hell, there's a good chance he is a slaver, now — I'd be stunned if the Trump Organization doesn't exploit third-world slave labor and/or slave labor carried out by enslaved American prisoners. Likewise I'd be stunned if Trump, in his younger days, had any qualms whatsoever about exploiting enslaved sex workers.
Lincoln, on the other hand, was not a slaver. Trump therefore does not fit in Lincoln's shoes; the analogy is invalid. If we must compare Trump to a Civil War-era president, the comparison we should be making is to Jefferson Davis, not to Abraham Lincoln.
When modeling the behavior of Trump and the Trump gang it's best to think in terms of their material interests and drives rather than in terms of abstract values that we all purportedly share. This is because material interests and drives exist, and shared values don't. We think the collection of oppressions put together in the institution of slavery are bad, and good for us I guess for crossing that very low bar — but they think that same set of oppressions are profitable and pleasant. If it were socially acceptable to publicly support first-world chattel slavery, they would.
Let's not pretend that 19th century Trump would have opposed slavery. That's a silly idea.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:52 AM on May 2, 2017 [50 favorites]
Pre-Civil War Trump would have been a slaver. Hell, there's a good chance he is a slaver, now — I'd be stunned if the Trump Organization doesn't exploit third-world slave labor and/or slave labor carried out by enslaved American prisoners. Likewise I'd be stunned if Trump, in his younger days, had any qualms whatsoever about exploiting enslaved sex workers.
Lincoln, on the other hand, was not a slaver. Trump therefore does not fit in Lincoln's shoes; the analogy is invalid. If we must compare Trump to a Civil War-era president, the comparison we should be making is to Jefferson Davis, not to Abraham Lincoln.
When modeling the behavior of Trump and the Trump gang it's best to think in terms of their material interests and drives rather than in terms of abstract values that we all purportedly share. This is because material interests and drives exist, and shared values don't. We think the collection of oppressions put together in the institution of slavery are bad, and good for us I guess for crossing that very low bar — but they think that same set of oppressions are profitable and pleasant. If it were socially acceptable to publicly support first-world chattel slavery, they would.
Let's not pretend that 19th century Trump would have opposed slavery. That's a silly idea.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:52 AM on May 2, 2017 [50 favorites]
I'm surprised Trump hasn't halted the removal of Jackson off the $20 bill. Add that to the things he can't get done, I guess.
posted by dirigibleman at 8:53 AM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by dirigibleman at 8:53 AM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
What possible deal could Trump have made to avert the Civil War given his tactic of folding at the first opportunity? Yeah, okay fine. You guys can keep having slaves.
That had that deal on the table and turned it down.
I find it quite easy to believe that in Lincoln's shoes Trump could have rolled over and let the union break apart and shrugged off continuing slavery.
Thinks he's Lincoln, is really Buchanan.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:54 AM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
Trump told me a year and a half ago or so, a year ago, that he thought he could have done a deal, to have averted the [civil] war.
But in 1860 American slaves, as a financial asset, were worth approximately three and a half billion dollars--that's just as property. Three and a half billion dollars was the net worth, roughly, of slaves in 1860. In today's dollars that would be approximately seventy-five billion dollars. In 1860 slaves as an asset were worth more than all of America's manufacturing, all of the railroads, all of the productive capacity of the United States put together. Slaves were the single largest, by far, financial asset of property in the entire American economy. The only thing worth more than the slaves in the American economy of the 1850s was the land itself, and no one can really put a dollar value on all of the land of North America.Professor David W. Blight
posted by kirkaracha at 8:58 AM on May 2, 2017 [11 favorites]
@CitizenCohn: Did the president of the U.S. just turn to some Air Force cadets, at an official ceremony, and ask if they agreed with his political cause?
@GlennThrush: Trump is giving a free-range political speech -- on border wall, budget, Dems, 2016 election -- w/ uniformed USAF guys behind him as props.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:08 AM on May 2, 2017 [22 favorites]
@GlennThrush: Trump is giving a free-range political speech -- on border wall, budget, Dems, 2016 election -- w/ uniformed USAF guys behind him as props.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:08 AM on May 2, 2017 [22 favorites]
WSJ still trying to help...
One Move That Could Solve the GOP’s Tax-Cut Math Problem (Maybe)
One Move That Could Solve the GOP’s Tax-Cut Math Problem (Maybe)
President Donald Trump has said he wants to cut taxes, big-league, and Republicans are having trouble squeezing his ambitions into congressional rules forbidding bigger deficits after a 10-year budget scoring window.posted by OnceUponATime at 9:11 AM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
Some lawmakers are exploring a way around that problem: Make the window bigger.
Sen. Pat Toomey (R., Pa.) suggested last week a “longer horizon” to overcome obstacles posed by the process known as reconciliation, which lets a tax cut pass on a majority Senate vote but prevents additions to long-run deficits. The size of the window would also be changed through the budget process, and wouldn’t require more than a simple majority; Republicans hold 52 seats in the chamber.
Furthermore, it's generally a bad idea to setup every interaction with whoever you're meeting with in the oval office as adversarial.
It's a bad idea in general to treat every single personal interaction as adversarial.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:13 AM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's a bad idea in general to treat every single personal interaction as adversarial.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:13 AM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
Awesome. Pretty soon I expect someone to introduce a bill defining pi=3.
posted by scalefree at 9:13 AM on May 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 9:13 AM on May 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
>I'm surprised Trump hasn't halted the removal of Jackson off the $20 bill. Add that to the things he can't get done, I guess.
I want to say that there is no way - no way - that Trump is aware of this. He lacks that kind of awareness. But then, maybe like the gold brocade curtains, this is exactly the kind of detail, minor and meaningless in the bigger context, that Trump would fixate on.
So I guess I don't know. Is he unaware? Or can he just not get it done? Either way... Low energy! Sad!
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:17 AM on May 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
I want to say that there is no way - no way - that Trump is aware of this. He lacks that kind of awareness. But then, maybe like the gold brocade curtains, this is exactly the kind of detail, minor and meaningless in the bigger context, that Trump would fixate on.
So I guess I don't know. Is he unaware? Or can he just not get it done? Either way... Low energy! Sad!
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:17 AM on May 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
Air Force cadets who just can't even
posted by OverlappingElvis at 9:26 AM on May 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by OverlappingElvis at 9:26 AM on May 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
He has hired additional employees to research the citizenship status of would-be voters through the state Motor Vehicle Department, which began verifying citizenship for driver's licenses two decades ago. If the Recorder's Office finds proof of citizenship for a prospective voter in the database, Fontes has directed staffers to add that voter to the rolls.
I'm in Arizona (although I live outside of Maricopa County), and this is an issue I deeply care about. Arizona election law is deeply screwed up. I'm bothered by the fact that it appears 58,000 eligible voters may have been disenfranchised. I'm also bothered by the fact that some voting-access opponents are claiming that the county recorder is required to reject so many applications from eligible voters.
The argument for requiring the county recorder to reject applications goes as follows:
The state has already interpreted the law to mean that its list of acceptable forms of proof is not an exhaustive list. In other words, the law says "these forms are good, but they're not the only good forms."
What the new Maricopa County recorder seems to be arguing is this: The name and address of a known citizen should be a sufficient form of proof.
And the argument against the county recorder is this: The name and address of a known citizen is not enough proof to prove that citizen is a citizen.
Republican voting-access opponents should present this argument in court if they feel confident in its validity. If they choose to do so, they should held accountable for making that argument, and the party should lose elections because of it.
Winning local elections is one way we drag their logic into the light of day. Winning local elections is one way we introduce the sunlight necessary to disinfect the systems. Voting in local elections is important.
posted by compartment at 9:27 AM on May 2, 2017 [24 favorites]
I'm in Arizona (although I live outside of Maricopa County), and this is an issue I deeply care about. Arizona election law is deeply screwed up. I'm bothered by the fact that it appears 58,000 eligible voters may have been disenfranchised. I'm also bothered by the fact that some voting-access opponents are claiming that the county recorder is required to reject so many applications from eligible voters.
The argument for requiring the county recorder to reject applications goes as follows:
- State law requires proof of citizenship
- State law lists certain acceptable forms of proof
- State law requires the county recorder to reject voter registration without proof of citizenship
The state has already interpreted the law to mean that its list of acceptable forms of proof is not an exhaustive list. In other words, the law says "these forms are good, but they're not the only good forms."
What the new Maricopa County recorder seems to be arguing is this: The name and address of a known citizen should be a sufficient form of proof.
And the argument against the county recorder is this: The name and address of a known citizen is not enough proof to prove that citizen is a citizen.
Republican voting-access opponents should present this argument in court if they feel confident in its validity. If they choose to do so, they should held accountable for making that argument, and the party should lose elections because of it.
Winning local elections is one way we drag their logic into the light of day. Winning local elections is one way we introduce the sunlight necessary to disinfect the systems. Voting in local elections is important.
posted by compartment at 9:27 AM on May 2, 2017 [24 favorites]
Remember this Trump tweet in September
"either elect more Republican Senators in 2018 or change the rules now to 51%. Our country needs a good "shutdown" in September to fix mess!"
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:15 on May 2
Some context:
WaPo: Trump raises prospect of government shutdown to leverage better budget for GOP in fall
"either elect more Republican Senators in 2018 or change the rules now to 51%. Our country needs a good "shutdown" in September to fix mess!"
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:15 on May 2
Some context:
WaPo: Trump raises prospect of government shutdown to leverage better budget for GOP in fall
President Trump on Tuesday called for a government shutdown later this year and suggested the Senate might need to prohibit future filibusters, dramatic declarations from a new commander-in-chief whose frustration is snowballing as Congress continues to block key parts of his agenda.posted by ZeusHumms at 9:30 AM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
“Our country needs a good ‘shutdown’ in September to fix mess!” Trump wrote in a series of Twitter posts Tuesday morning. He likely meant a shutdown in October, as the current spending bill lawmakers have agreed to would fund government operations through Sept. 30.
Trump’s call for a shutdown, which appears to be unprecedented from a sitting president, come as his problems are mounting within the House and Senate, chambers that are both controlled by his party.
Please don't tell Trump about the Tubman $20. I'm really looking forward to that. Could we all just agree to keep our collective pie holes shut?
posted by Sophie1 at 9:31 AM on May 2, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by Sophie1 at 9:31 AM on May 2, 2017 [34 favorites]
Politico: GOP Senators Reject Trump's Call To End The Filibuster
Includes quotes from Orrin Hatch, the longest-serving Republican in the Senate, and David Vitter's newly minted replacement in Louisiana, both expressing unqualified support for the legislative filibuster. That's....like good news?
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:31 AM on May 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
Includes quotes from Orrin Hatch, the longest-serving Republican in the Senate, and David Vitter's newly minted replacement in Louisiana, both expressing unqualified support for the legislative filibuster. That's....like good news?
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:31 AM on May 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
In the NY Times piece about the "good 'shutdown'" tweets, there's this little gem from Mick Mulvaney:
"[Democrats] wanted to make this president look like he did not know what he was doing, and he beat them on that at the very, very highest level."
That sentence does not read to me the way I suspect Mr. Mulvaney wants it to.
posted by nickmark at 9:34 AM on May 2, 2017 [72 favorites]
"[Democrats] wanted to make this president look like he did not know what he was doing, and he beat them on that at the very, very highest level."
That sentence does not read to me the way I suspect Mr. Mulvaney wants it to.
posted by nickmark at 9:34 AM on May 2, 2017 [72 favorites]
What do we think the odds are that, even if they were put into circulation, trump's tiny hands would ever actually come into contact with a Tubman Twenty? guy hasn't driven in decades im going to assume he hast handled physical cash in at least that long. . .
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 9:35 AM on May 2, 2017
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 9:35 AM on May 2, 2017
I'm betting Trump doesn't know that the Jackson on the $20 and the Jackson he thinks is great are one and the same.
posted by yoga at 10:00 AM on May 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by yoga at 10:00 AM on May 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
I'm betting Dump couldn't name two presidents between Washington and Lincoln even if you spotted him Jackson.
posted by hangashore at 10:08 AM on May 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by hangashore at 10:08 AM on May 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
but I would love to leave Andrew Jackson or see if we can maybe come up with another denomination."
Yeah, that's it. Come up with another denomination. Like the eleven and a half dollar bill.
posted by JackFlash at 10:22 AM on May 2, 2017 [12 favorites]
Yeah, that's it. Come up with another denomination. Like the eleven and a half dollar bill.
posted by JackFlash at 10:22 AM on May 2, 2017 [12 favorites]
> [Trump is aware of something, but] whether or not he's forgotten about that since last April ... who knows.
That feeling when you wonder about whether the President of the United States has developed a sense of object permanence.
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:22 AM on May 2, 2017 [16 favorites]
That feeling when you wonder about whether the President of the United States has developed a sense of object permanence.
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:22 AM on May 2, 2017 [16 favorites]
DOJ is literally prosecuting a woman for laughing at Jeff Sessions
Katherine Coronado of the U.S. Capitol Police was in her second week on the job when she was assigned to keep watch over Sessions’ confirmation hearing on Jan. 10. Coronado was involved in the arrest of Desiree Fairooz, an activist affiliated with the group Code Pink, after Fairooz laughed when Sen. Richard Shelby (R-Ala.) said that Sessions’ record of “treating all Americans equally under the law is clear and well-documented.” (Sessions had been rejected as a federal judge in the 1980s because of concerns about his views on race, and back when he was still a Democrat, Shelby himself actually ran an ad suggesting Sessions had called the Ku Klux Klan “good ole boys.”)
Fairooz was seated in the back of the room, and her laugh did not interrupt Shelby’s introductory speech. But, according to the government, the laugh amounted to willful “disorderly and disruptive conduct” intended to “impede, disrupt, and disturb the orderly conduct” of congressional proceedings. The government also charged her with a separate misdemeanor for allegedly parading, demonstrating or picketing within a Capitol, evidently for her actions after she was being escorted from the room.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:26 AM on May 2, 2017 [43 favorites]
Katherine Coronado of the U.S. Capitol Police was in her second week on the job when she was assigned to keep watch over Sessions’ confirmation hearing on Jan. 10. Coronado was involved in the arrest of Desiree Fairooz, an activist affiliated with the group Code Pink, after Fairooz laughed when Sen. Richard Shelby (R-Ala.) said that Sessions’ record of “treating all Americans equally under the law is clear and well-documented.” (Sessions had been rejected as a federal judge in the 1980s because of concerns about his views on race, and back when he was still a Democrat, Shelby himself actually ran an ad suggesting Sessions had called the Ku Klux Klan “good ole boys.”)
Fairooz was seated in the back of the room, and her laugh did not interrupt Shelby’s introductory speech. But, according to the government, the laugh amounted to willful “disorderly and disruptive conduct” intended to “impede, disrupt, and disturb the orderly conduct” of congressional proceedings. The government also charged her with a separate misdemeanor for allegedly parading, demonstrating or picketing within a Capitol, evidently for her actions after she was being escorted from the room.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:26 AM on May 2, 2017 [43 favorites]
but I would love to leave Andrew Jackson or see if we can maybe come up with another denomination."
Yeah, that's it. Come up with another denomination. Like the eleven and a half dollar bill.
Three fifths of twenty is twelve.
posted by SpaceBass at 10:29 AM on May 2, 2017 [39 favorites]
Yeah, that's it. Come up with another denomination. Like the eleven and a half dollar bill.
Three fifths of twenty is twelve.
posted by SpaceBass at 10:29 AM on May 2, 2017 [39 favorites]
But, according to the government, the laugh amounted to willful “disorderly and disruptive conduct” intended to “impede, disrupt, and disturb the orderly conduct” of congressional proceedings.
Jesus fucking christ. Once again, men are afraid women are going to laugh at them, while women are afraid men are going to kill them.
posted by Mayor West at 10:30 AM on May 2, 2017 [76 favorites]
Jesus fucking christ. Once again, men are afraid women are going to laugh at them, while women are afraid men are going to kill them.
posted by Mayor West at 10:30 AM on May 2, 2017 [76 favorites]
Laugh at jeff sessions and he's liable to kill you.
posted by valkane at 10:34 AM on May 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by valkane at 10:34 AM on May 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
Laugh at jeff sessions and he's liable to kill you.
But I thought we're supposed to laugh at clowns.
posted by Servo5678 at 10:37 AM on May 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
But I thought we're supposed to laugh at clowns.
posted by Servo5678 at 10:37 AM on May 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
Molina Healthcare says that if Congress doesn't fund the cost sharing reductions in the spending bill, they will withdraw from the marketplace immediately on the basis that the government isn't paying premiums, dropping coverage for ~650,000 people right away.
Update: Molina Healthcare just ousted the CEO and CFO, literally the Molina brothers, citing "disappointing financial performance." I can't help but suspect that what's going on with Obamacare might be relevant.
posted by zachlipton at 10:38 AM on May 2, 2017 [9 favorites]
Update: Molina Healthcare just ousted the CEO and CFO, literally the Molina brothers, citing "disappointing financial performance." I can't help but suspect that what's going on with Obamacare might be relevant.
posted by zachlipton at 10:38 AM on May 2, 2017 [9 favorites]
Really hard to blame the other party for a shutdown when you're on record calling for one. And control all the branches of government. Also, taking yourself hostage only works in Blazing Saddles. In real negotiations, Pelosi/Schumer will gladly watch you blow your own head off.
posted by chris24 at 10:42 AM on May 2, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 10:42 AM on May 2, 2017 [19 favorites]
But I thought we're supposed to laugh at clowns.
Everything floats down here.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 10:45 AM on May 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
Everything floats down here.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 10:45 AM on May 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
We're gonna need a tinier violin
GOP Rep begs for Democratic help to bail them out of their healthcare mess.
"Our offer is this: nothing."
posted by tonycpsu at 10:48 AM on May 2, 2017 [23 favorites]
GOP Rep begs for Democratic help to bail them out of their healthcare mess.
"Our offer is this: nothing."
posted by tonycpsu at 10:48 AM on May 2, 2017 [23 favorites]
It's got to be killing Trump that CNN and MSNBC are (per tweets anyway) taking Hillary Clinton's speech live over Sean Spicer.
posted by zachlipton at 10:51 AM on May 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 10:51 AM on May 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
Can they stop sending people to the fucking rallies also?
posted by Artw at 10:53 AM on May 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:53 AM on May 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
Mick Mulvaney is up in front of the press corp talking about how it really was a bipartisan spending bill and the President really did negotiate a fantastic deal for the American people, just a tremendous deal.
posted by zrail at 10:54 AM on May 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by zrail at 10:54 AM on May 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trump dies not negotiate shit. I see no evidence the fucker has negotiated a thing in his life.
posted by Artw at 10:55 AM on May 2, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:55 AM on May 2, 2017 [9 favorites]
There were a lot of moments in history when, looking back, it would be reasonable to say that different actions by different statesmen could have averted the Civil War
This is not reasonable at all to presume .
To put it flatly, nothing short of total capitulation to Slave Power would have averted the Civil War. Period.
posted by absalom at 10:55 AM on May 2, 2017 [19 favorites]
This is not reasonable at all to presume .
To put it flatly, nothing short of total capitulation to Slave Power would have averted the Civil War. Period.
posted by absalom at 10:55 AM on May 2, 2017 [19 favorites]
I mean, that's what Trump is after, right?
posted by Artw at 10:57 AM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:57 AM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
Regarding that TPM link. I'm not an elected Democrat, but this would be my proposal to the GOP to make the health care better and more affordable. More subsidies for the people who can't afford insurance. Encourage the states that refused to expand medicaid to expand medicaid. Seriously that would help SO many people it would be amazing. Ensure that the insurance companies get their money so they don't pull out of the individual marketplace. Maybe look into single payer or public option while you're at it.
posted by Green With You at 10:58 AM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Green With You at 10:58 AM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
President Trump’s agriculture secretary, Sonny Perdue, moved to stall the stricter nutritional standards for school breakfasts and lunches that Michelle Obama had pushed
#mkava (Make Ketchup A Vegetable Again)
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 11:01 AM on May 2, 2017 [9 favorites]
#mkava (Make Ketchup A Vegetable Again)
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 11:01 AM on May 2, 2017 [9 favorites]
Mulvaney, and by extension, Trump, seems mostly pissed off that the Democrats took credit for wins in the budget deal. The budget tweet this morning, Mulvaney's anger now, this all seems way too personal.
posted by zachlipton at 11:01 AM on May 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:01 AM on May 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
I'm currently watching the movie adaptation of JG Ballard's High Rise.
It feels pretty much like watching the news.
posted by srboisvert at 11:01 AM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
It feels pretty much like watching the news.
posted by srboisvert at 11:01 AM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
There were a lot of moments in history when, looking back, it would be reasonable to say that different actions by different statesmen could have averted the Civil War
There are a number of points when civil war was averted. The Nullification Crisis got pretty close, and the Compromise Tariff gave everyone a chance to back away from the brink. The Wilmot Proviso and Zachary Taylor's opposition to slave-state expansion started a slow burn towards secession that the wrangling over the Compromise of 1850 managed to put off until the executive ended up back in the Southern-sympathetic (or at least war-averse) hands of Millard Fillmore.
It wasn't a bullet that could be dodged indefinitely. Could it have been pushed down the line a decade or so? Mmmmmaybe. Could've happened earlier, too.
posted by jackbishop at 11:05 AM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
There are a number of points when civil war was averted. The Nullification Crisis got pretty close, and the Compromise Tariff gave everyone a chance to back away from the brink. The Wilmot Proviso and Zachary Taylor's opposition to slave-state expansion started a slow burn towards secession that the wrangling over the Compromise of 1850 managed to put off until the executive ended up back in the Southern-sympathetic (or at least war-averse) hands of Millard Fillmore.
It wasn't a bullet that could be dodged indefinitely. Could it have been pushed down the line a decade or so? Mmmmmaybe. Could've happened earlier, too.
posted by jackbishop at 11:05 AM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
Trump dies not negotiate shit. I see no evidence the fucker has negotiated a thing in his life.
At this point, 40% of my job is negotiation. This man has exhibited no evidence of being able to negotiate anything. Trying to pull a bunch of big-boy power move posturing and then immediately capitulating upon pushback is....something, I guess, but not an effective strategy for negotiating.
posted by Existential Dread at 11:06 AM on May 2, 2017 [15 favorites]
At this point, 40% of my job is negotiation. This man has exhibited no evidence of being able to negotiate anything. Trying to pull a bunch of big-boy power move posturing and then immediately capitulating upon pushback is....something, I guess, but not an effective strategy for negotiating.
posted by Existential Dread at 11:06 AM on May 2, 2017 [15 favorites]
I see no evidence the fucker has negotiated a thing in his life.
He couldn't negotiate his way to a second entree on two-for-one steak night.
posted by octobersurprise at 11:13 AM on May 2, 2017 [10 favorites]
He couldn't negotiate his way to a second entree on two-for-one steak night.
posted by octobersurprise at 11:13 AM on May 2, 2017 [10 favorites]
OverlappingElvis: Air Force cadets who just can't even
URL: https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4667907/president-donald-trump-uses-air-force-cadets-political-props
... but I get 404: Page Not Found
posted by filthy light thief at 11:13 AM on May 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
URL: https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4667907/president-donald-trump-uses-air-force-cadets-political-props
... but I get 404: Page Not Found
posted by filthy light thief at 11:13 AM on May 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trying to pull a bunch of big-boy power move posturing and then immediately capitulating upon pushback is....something, I guess, but not an effective strategy for negotiating.
I guess it depends on what your intention is. If you're trying to improve your own position, then no, it's a horrible strategy that will always fail. If you're trying to show off your enormous swinging genitals for the boys down at the country club, then you just have to make sure the capitulating happens after-hours, or that you only negotiate with other actors whose bargaining positions are so much weaker than your own that there is literally no way you can lose.
Cheeto Benito is now realizing that there's no such thing as "after hours" for the POTUS, and that sometimes you have no choice but to negotiate from an even (or even disadvantaged) playing field. Watching the cognitive dissonance tear him apart would be a delight, if it didn't come at the cost of letting the GOP put their boot to the throats of the poor and underprivileged.
posted by Mayor West at 11:15 AM on May 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
I guess it depends on what your intention is. If you're trying to improve your own position, then no, it's a horrible strategy that will always fail. If you're trying to show off your enormous swinging genitals for the boys down at the country club, then you just have to make sure the capitulating happens after-hours, or that you only negotiate with other actors whose bargaining positions are so much weaker than your own that there is literally no way you can lose.
Cheeto Benito is now realizing that there's no such thing as "after hours" for the POTUS, and that sometimes you have no choice but to negotiate from an even (or even disadvantaged) playing field. Watching the cognitive dissonance tear him apart would be a delight, if it didn't come at the cost of letting the GOP put their boot to the throats of the poor and underprivileged.
posted by Mayor West at 11:15 AM on May 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
Mick Mulvaney has been pointing at a stupid wall photo for twenty minutes as his evidence of We Got What We Wanted In The Bill and just admitted he didn't know where it was or anything about it
posted by theodolite at 11:16 AM on May 2, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 11:16 AM on May 2, 2017 [10 favorites]
Looks like the press corps is in full on revolt mode after Spicer walked out without taking questions.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 11:25 AM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by OverlappingElvis at 11:25 AM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
Mulvaney said a lot of words but failed to explain how the governing party threatening a shutdown makes any goddamn sense. Then he left, Sean Spicer failed to reappear, and an entire room of journalists yelled "SEAN!!!" in unison before the stream shut off
posted by theodolite at 11:26 AM on May 2, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 11:26 AM on May 2, 2017 [14 favorites]
So Kelly and Mulvaney, mostly Mulvaney, took up the entire briefing, and then Spicer just walked out behind them without taking a single question himself, leading to much shouting of "Sean." Someone, who I'm pretty sure is April Ryan, is trying to convince the entire press corps not to leave in the hope they can, I don't know, will Sean Spicer back with their minds.
posted by zachlipton at 11:26 AM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:26 AM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
that really was a lot of SEANs
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:28 AM on May 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:28 AM on May 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
Apparently Sean has day drinking to get busy with
posted by yhbc at 11:36 AM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by yhbc at 11:36 AM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
Evidence of a spine? CNN refused to run a campaign ad that calls MSM "fake news." Cue First Amendment outrage from Trump campaign.
Erik Wemple, WaPo: No, Trump campaign. You don’t get to call CNN ‘fake news’ on CNN.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:40 AM on May 2, 2017 [32 favorites]
Erik Wemple, WaPo: No, Trump campaign. You don’t get to call CNN ‘fake news’ on CNN.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:40 AM on May 2, 2017 [32 favorites]
that really was a lot of SEANs
I clipped it as a video so you can all enjoy the SEANs.
The best part is that it's not at all shameless. He doesn't turn his head, he doesn't acknowledge what he's doing. He knows he's doing a bad thing, and he'll hang his head as he does it.
posted by zachlipton at 11:41 AM on May 2, 2017 [18 favorites]
I clipped it as a video so you can all enjoy the SEANs.
The best part is that it's not at all shameless. He doesn't turn his head, he doesn't acknowledge what he's doing. He knows he's doing a bad thing, and he'll hang his head as he does it.
posted by zachlipton at 11:41 AM on May 2, 2017 [18 favorites]
Margaret Sullivan: If you think Fox News is changing, Rupert Murdoch’s internal memo shows it isn’t. At all.
What’s happening at Fox may look like a thorough housecleaning.posted by zachlipton at 11:46 AM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
But it’s really more like a cleaning crew who believes that dimming the lights and sweeping the dirt under the rug are acceptable substitutes for what’s really needed: a mop, a bucket and some industrial-strength disinfectant.
A couple of the whip counts are at 22 firm nos now, only one short of enough to kill AHCA.
posted by Justinian at 12:00 PM on May 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 12:00 PM on May 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
This man has exhibited no evidence of being able to negotiate anything. Trying to pull a bunch of big-boy power move posturing and then immediately capitulating upon pushback is....something, I guess, but not an effective strategy for negotiating.
Sounds like a classic bully.
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:12 PM on May 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
Sounds like a classic bully.
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:12 PM on May 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
White House aims for Thursday signing of religious liberty executive order: he original draft order, which would have established broad exemptions for people and groups to claim religious objections under virtually any circumstance, was leaked to The Nation on Feb. 1—the handiwork, many conservatives believed, of Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner, who have sought to project themselves as friendly to the LGBT community. Liberals blasted the draft order as government-licensed discrimination, and the White House distanced itself from the leaked document in a public statement.
Pence and a small team of conservative allies quickly began working behind the scenes to revise the language, and in recent weeks have ratcheted up the pressure on Trump to sign it. The new draft is being tightly held, but one influential conservative who saw the text said it hasn’t been dialed back much—if at all—since the February leak. “The language is very, very strong,” the source said.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:13 PM on May 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
Pence and a small team of conservative allies quickly began working behind the scenes to revise the language, and in recent weeks have ratcheted up the pressure on Trump to sign it. The new draft is being tightly held, but one influential conservative who saw the text said it hasn’t been dialed back much—if at all—since the February leak. “The language is very, very strong,” the source said.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:13 PM on May 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
The Kremlin readout of the Trump/Putin call includes something the White House forgot to mention: they discussed having a "personal meeting on margins of G20 summit." Strange that the White House would leave that bit out.
posted by zachlipton at 12:19 PM on May 2, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:19 PM on May 2, 2017 [26 favorites]
White House aims for Thursday signing of religious liberty executive order
I hope The Satanic Temple has something planned.
posted by Room 641-A at 12:44 PM on May 2, 2017 [17 favorites]
I hope The Satanic Temple has something planned.
posted by Room 641-A at 12:44 PM on May 2, 2017 [17 favorites]
oc
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:00 PM on May 2, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:00 PM on May 2, 2017 [28 favorites]
oc
In the future, your granddad will have the opportunity to publicly humiliate himself and his declining cognitive faculties on the internet for all eternity
posted by Existential Dread at 1:05 PM on May 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
In the future, your granddad will have the opportunity to publicly humiliate himself and his declining cognitive faculties on the internet for all eternity
posted by Existential Dread at 1:05 PM on May 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
oc
I'd believe he's four eels.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:08 PM on May 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'd believe he's four eels.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:08 PM on May 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
So when Trump goes full King Aerys II who is the Kingslayer who stops him from Burning Them All? Mattis is too obvious. It should be someone less sympathetic.
posted by Justinian at 1:25 PM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 1:25 PM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
Jared? I think it's Jared.
posted by Justinian at 1:28 PM on May 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 1:28 PM on May 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
Looks like the press corps is in full on revolt mode after Spicer walked out without taking questions.
100+ days too late.
posted by Gelatin at 1:28 PM on May 2, 2017 [9 favorites]
100+ days too late.
posted by Gelatin at 1:28 PM on May 2, 2017 [9 favorites]
An Oregon Judge Refused to Marry Same-Sex Couples.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:29 PM on May 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:29 PM on May 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
Carter Page sent a 1,000 word rant, completely unprompted, to the Daily Beast.
This man...is not a well person.
posted by zachlipton at 1:30 PM on May 2, 2017 [15 favorites]
This man...is not a well person.
posted by zachlipton at 1:30 PM on May 2, 2017 [15 favorites]
Jared? I think it's Jared.
No, it's got be the member of another entwined noble family with some martial acuity. Like Erik Prince.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 1:30 PM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
No, it's got be the member of another entwined noble family with some martial acuity. Like Erik Prince.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 1:30 PM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
> Carter Page sent a 1,000 word rant, completely unprompted, to the Daily Beast.
Your Carter Page link goes to some other article, zachlipton. You probably meant this.
posted by christopherious at 1:34 PM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
Your Carter Page link goes to some other article, zachlipton. You probably meant this.
posted by christopherious at 1:34 PM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
Fixed just in time, thanks.
posted by zachlipton at 1:35 PM on May 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by zachlipton at 1:35 PM on May 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
Your Carter Page link goes to some other article, zachlipton
That was confusing, but it did refer to TrumpCare as the Scrooge-Marley Act.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:37 PM on May 2, 2017 [12 favorites]
I mean Jaime was a Kingsguard so if we're sticking to the analogy it'd be a member of the secret service. or someone on trumps personal security team — wait, is he still paying non-USSS bodyguards or was that just a thing for the campaign?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:37 PM on May 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:37 PM on May 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
Chuck Schumer walks into the Oval Office and finds Charlotte Pence seated at the Resolute Desk, her hands stained with gore
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:38 PM on May 2, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:38 PM on May 2, 2017 [13 favorites]
Speaking of bad writing nobody asked for, Ivanka's book came out today, and the NYT has a suitably savage review. It's apparently full of great advice: have a lot of money and stuff will be done for you:
But a class bias at some point begins to reveal itself, and it’s not just in the business leaders she profiles — who, like Trump, are often the daughters of New York City’s elite. It’s in her discussion of Covey’s four-quadrant time-management grid, when she identifies grocery shopping as neither urgent nor important. (Do the groceries just magically appear in her fridge? Oh, wait. They probably do.) It’s in her confession that “honestly, I wasn’t treating myself to a massage or making much time for self-care” during the 2016 campaign. (Too busy.)And the kicker:
It’s in her description of her daily life, in which she somehow — until the election, anyway — managed to run her own company, serve as an executive vice president in the Trump Organization, train for a half marathon and spend time alone with each of her three children. Absent locating a wormhole in space, there’s really only one way to find time for all of these commitments, and that is with the help of staff. Yet her household help barely rates a mention in this discussion.
While she’s at it, she might want to show him the part of her book about how the best leaders identify the gaps in their knowledge. But that, I’m guessing, may be far too much to ask.posted by zachlipton at 1:39 PM on May 2, 2017 [40 favorites]
An Oregon Judge Refused to Marry Same-Sex Couples.
Shit like this pisses me off because it's one step away from what could have been me and my wife (Christian and Jewish respectively).
posted by Talez at 1:40 PM on May 2, 2017 [9 favorites]
Shit like this pisses me off because it's one step away from what could have been me and my wife (Christian and Jewish respectively).
posted by Talez at 1:40 PM on May 2, 2017 [9 favorites]
More recently, the enduring self-preservation impulses of the New Cold Warriors, whose lifeblood is interventionist conflict, mixed with an increasingly prevalent, blame-the-bogeyman, virtual neo-McCarthyist culture, creates a lethal cocktail and a primary roadblock that treacherously hinders national unity and new approaches to national security today.
Carter Page already in the running for next year's Lyttle Lytton
posted by theodolite at 1:40 PM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
Carter Page already in the running for next year's Lyttle Lytton
posted by theodolite at 1:40 PM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
This man...is not a well person.
Slogan for Trump 2020.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:46 PM on May 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
Slogan for Trump 2020.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:46 PM on May 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
Could we please have a quick [real] or [fake] tag on that last Trump tweet image? TIA.
posted by yhbc at 1:53 PM on May 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by yhbc at 1:53 PM on May 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
[fake], it's an Outkast parody.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:02 PM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:02 PM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
Someone, who I'm pretty sure is April Ryan, is trying to convince the entire press corps not to leave in the hope they can, I don't know, will Sean Spicer back with their minds.
The damn fools, there's no way that will be effective. Round here when we had that problem the only thing that worked was baiting an old Havahart raccoon trap with cinnamon gum and Bitcoins.
posted by sebastienbailard at 2:03 PM on May 2, 2017 [19 favorites]
The damn fools, there's no way that will be effective. Round here when we had that problem the only thing that worked was baiting an old Havahart raccoon trap with cinnamon gum and Bitcoins.
posted by sebastienbailard at 2:03 PM on May 2, 2017 [19 favorites]
re: Carter Page's writing style, I wish I had infinite free time and talent, cause I'd love to write a Farmer Refuted-style rebuttal interleaved with the text of the gibberish itself. There's a certain bathetic/mock-serious rhythm to Page's flavor of high gibberish that seems to invite messing-with, at least when I read it.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:06 PM on May 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:06 PM on May 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
Man, that Carter Page gibberish
"More recently, the enduring self-preservation impulses of the New Cold Warriors, whose lifeblood is interventionist conflict, mixed with an increasingly prevalent, blame-the-bogeyman, virtual neo-McCarthyist culture, creates a lethal cocktail and a primary roadblock that treacherously hinders national unity and new approaches to national security today," Page concludes.
Tag yourself
I'm Virtual Neo-McCarthyist
posted by Existential Dread at 2:09 PM on May 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
"More recently, the enduring self-preservation impulses of the New Cold Warriors, whose lifeblood is interventionist conflict, mixed with an increasingly prevalent, blame-the-bogeyman, virtual neo-McCarthyist culture, creates a lethal cocktail and a primary roadblock that treacherously hinders national unity and new approaches to national security today," Page concludes.
Tag yourself
I'm Virtual Neo-McCarthyist
posted by Existential Dread at 2:09 PM on May 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
"More recently, the enduring self-preservation impulses of the New Cold Warriors, whose lifeblood is interventionist conflict, mixed with an increasingly prevalent, blame-the-bogeyman, virtual neo-McCarthyist culture...
It's funny I've heard that summary almost word for word from one of my most lefty-ist Facebook peeps, critiquing normal concern about Russian meddling.
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 2:14 PM on May 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's funny I've heard that summary almost word for word from one of my most lefty-ist Facebook peeps, critiquing normal concern about Russian meddling.
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 2:14 PM on May 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
White House aims for Thursday signing of religious liberty executive order:
Mefites, can I get a sort of sanity check on what the actual impact is of this? I have many friends who are all up in arms - and for sure, as a gay man I'm pretty pissed - but I feel like I've read things to the effect that these exec orders he keeps signing are largely symbolic BS. Like, this does not have the force of law for the general public, right? The next rando waitress who refuses to serve a gay couple is still gonna get sued for discrimination (assuming such a law is in place for that state), right?
posted by dnash at 2:15 PM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
Mefites, can I get a sort of sanity check on what the actual impact is of this? I have many friends who are all up in arms - and for sure, as a gay man I'm pretty pissed - but I feel like I've read things to the effect that these exec orders he keeps signing are largely symbolic BS. Like, this does not have the force of law for the general public, right? The next rando waitress who refuses to serve a gay couple is still gonna get sued for discrimination (assuming such a law is in place for that state), right?
posted by dnash at 2:15 PM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
whatever pops neo-mccarthyism is for squares and olds all the cool kids are doing stalinist purges these days
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:15 PM on May 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:15 PM on May 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
but I feel like I've read things to the effect that these exec orders he keeps signing are largely symbolic BS
Here's an article on the draft from February.: The four-page draft order, a copy of which is currently circulating among federal staff and advocacy organizations, construes religious organizations so broadly that it covers “any organization, including closely held for-profit corporations,” and protects “religious freedom” in every walk of life: “when providing social services, education, or healthcare; earning a living, seeking a job, or employing others; receiving government grants or contracts; or otherwise participating in the marketplace, the public square, or interfacing with Federal, State or local governments.”
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:18 PM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
Here's an article on the draft from February.: The four-page draft order, a copy of which is currently circulating among federal staff and advocacy organizations, construes religious organizations so broadly that it covers “any organization, including closely held for-profit corporations,” and protects “religious freedom” in every walk of life: “when providing social services, education, or healthcare; earning a living, seeking a job, or employing others; receiving government grants or contracts; or otherwise participating in the marketplace, the public square, or interfacing with Federal, State or local governments.”
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:18 PM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
Mefites, can I get a sort of sanity check on what the actual impact is of this?
One thing it does is remove cover for every Trump voter who claimed he won't really do things that hurt LGBT people. But it also gives cover to every moron who wants to discriminate, lawsuit or no.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:19 PM on May 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
One thing it does is remove cover for every Trump voter who claimed he won't really do things that hurt LGBT people. But it also gives cover to every moron who wants to discriminate, lawsuit or no.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:19 PM on May 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
creates a lethal cocktail and a primary roadblock
Block That Metaphor!
posted by diogenes at 2:26 PM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
Block That Metaphor!
posted by diogenes at 2:26 PM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
Justice Department will not charge Baton Rouge officers in fatal shooting of Alton Sterling
The Justice Department has decided not to bring charges against the officers involved in the death of Alton Sterling, whose videotaped shooting by police in Baton Rouge prompted unrest across the city, and is planning to reveal in the next 24 hours that it has closed the probe, according to four people familiar with the matter.posted by zachlipton at 2:26 PM on May 2, 2017 [14 favorites]
As of Tuesday afternoon, the Sterling family had yet to be informed by the Justice Department of the decision, and it is unclear how and when the department will announce its findings.
CNN news alert: Sources: Former Acting AG Yates to contradict administration about Flynn at hearing
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:26 PM on May 2, 2017 [39 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:26 PM on May 2, 2017 [39 favorites]
[fake], it's an Outkast parody.
Should have gone with "When you come to Mar-a-Lago boy you betta not hide cause the Trump Family gon' ride, hah!"
posted by Talez at 2:27 PM on May 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
Should have gone with "When you come to Mar-a-Lago boy you betta not hide cause the Trump Family gon' ride, hah!"
posted by Talez at 2:27 PM on May 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
Even if the "Kim Davis EO" is overly broad, it will take litigation to overturn it just like the travel ban, while some number of gay/trans/atheist/non-xtians will suffer harm from giving license to random federal employees to discriminate at will. On top of just the signalling effects, look at the culture change overnight at CPB and ICE, Trump gave them license to let their fascist flags fly, and they did so immediately and with obvious glee. The Kim Davis EO could do the same thing for Republicans embedded in every federal agency who'd otherwise have been bound to follow longstanding non-discrimination policies.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:34 PM on May 2, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:34 PM on May 2, 2017 [13 favorites]
can I get a sort of sanity check on what the actual impact is of this
Assuming it's the text that's been thrown around, the one that singles out blah blah one man and one woman blah abortion bad blah for special protection? The same horseshit that... was it Cruz?... was talking about during the primary campaigns?
Zero. It'll be shot down by courts inside of a few days.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:34 PM on May 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
Assuming it's the text that's been thrown around, the one that singles out blah blah one man and one woman blah abortion bad blah for special protection? The same horseshit that... was it Cruz?... was talking about during the primary campaigns?
Zero. It'll be shot down by courts inside of a few days.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:34 PM on May 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
whatever pops neo-mccarthyism is for squares and olds all the cool kids are doing stalinist purges these days
Trump is no doubt airbrushing Page, Flynn and Gorka out of his photographs as we speak.
posted by dis_integration at 2:43 PM on May 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
Trump is no doubt airbrushing Page, Flynn and Gorka out of his photographs as we speak.
posted by dis_integration at 2:43 PM on May 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm a Nü-Cold Warrior.
posted by valkane at 2:49 PM on May 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by valkane at 2:49 PM on May 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
So Steve Bannon really does have white boards filled with pledges. It turns out one of them is "build the border wall and eventually make Mexico..." I don't remember that "eventually" in the campaign.
He's also checked off "triple the number of ICE agents," and I'm pretty sure that hasn't happened yet.
posted by zachlipton at 2:54 PM on May 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
He's also checked off "triple the number of ICE agents," and I'm pretty sure that hasn't happened yet.
posted by zachlipton at 2:54 PM on May 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
An Oregon Judge Refused to Marry Same-Sex Couples.
Go all sovcit on his ass and file a lien against the fucker.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:59 PM on May 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
Go all sovcit on his ass and file a lien against the fucker.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:59 PM on May 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
Maybe he's got a system: like, one check means they signed an EO, a check and a star means Breitbart said it's already done, and a circle around it means it got declared unconstitutional by a federal judge
posted by theodolite at 3:00 PM on May 2, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 3:00 PM on May 2, 2017 [19 favorites]
After just a couple of months of enduring crazy grandpa president my respect for caregiver respite programs has shot through the roof.
posted by srboisvert at 3:19 PM on May 2, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 3:19 PM on May 2, 2017 [27 favorites]
So Steve Bannon really does have white boards filled with pledges. It turns out one of them is "build the border wall and eventually make Mexico..." I don't remember that "eventually" in the campaign.
Squealer changes the commandments as he needs to.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:32 PM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
Squealer changes the commandments as he needs to.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:32 PM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
Trump seems to enjoy the fact that he can say crazy shit and it's treated as breaking news:
He also knew the world would want to know whether he’d be willing to meet Kim personally. “Is this going to be breaking news?” he asked, then gave his answer.posted by zachlipton at 3:33 PM on May 2, 2017 [10 favorites]
“Yes, under the right circumstances, I would absolutely meet with him,” Trump said. “Now, most political people would never say that. But I’m telling you, under the right circumstances, I would meet with him.”
He concluded: “We have breaking news.”
I don't remember that "eventually" in the campaign
BUILD THAT WALL AND MAKE MEXICO PAY FOR IT THROUGH THE RAVAGES OF THE SECOND LAW OF THERMODYNAMICS RESULTING IN INEVITABLE HEAT DEATH
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:34 PM on May 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
BUILD THAT WALL AND MAKE MEXICO PAY FOR IT THROUGH THE RAVAGES OF THE SECOND LAW OF THERMODYNAMICS RESULTING IN INEVITABLE HEAT DEATH
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:34 PM on May 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
What would id it take to get a full page spread in a major newspaper
Manipulation of public perception is a no-access restricted area! Remain motionless until agents arrive to review your rights, citizen! All resistance will be charged to your VISA or Diner's Club Card!
/EmpireKlaxon.gif
posted by petebest at 3:38 PM on May 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
Manipulation of public perception is a no-access restricted area! Remain motionless until agents arrive to review your rights, citizen! All resistance will be charged to your VISA or Diner's Club Card!
/EmpireKlaxon.gif
posted by petebest at 3:38 PM on May 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
In fairness, Trump does have substantial experience buying things on credit and then making the lenders pay for it, so I can see why he would think he could pull the same trick off with the wall.
posted by zachlipton at 3:39 PM on May 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by zachlipton at 3:39 PM on May 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trump seems to enjoy the fact that he can say crazy shit and it's treated as breaking news
"Mr President, are buffaloes in fact living piñatas which explode with delicious candy when pummelled?"
"That's something obviously we're looking into, I've heard a lot of things, there are guys telling me it's a piñata golem and definitely that's something I'm going to consider down the road, okay?"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:39 PM on May 2, 2017 [9 favorites]
"Mr President, are buffaloes in fact living piñatas which explode with delicious candy when pummelled?"
"That's something obviously we're looking into, I've heard a lot of things, there are guys telling me it's a piñata golem and definitely that's something I'm going to consider down the road, okay?"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:39 PM on May 2, 2017 [9 favorites]
If anyone here happens to live in Darrell Issa's district, please read this tweet, call his office and demand to know his position on the AHCA, then report back here. Kthx.
posted by zachlipton at 3:45 PM on May 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 3:45 PM on May 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
After just a couple of months of enduring crazy grandpa president my respect for caregiver respite programs has shot through the roof.
I realize that Trump has caused real mental harm to people but this is not the same thing. Also, there is a severe lack of respite resources for caregivers (like, basically zero) and jokes about enduring "crazy grandpa" are hurtful.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:52 PM on May 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
I realize that Trump has caused real mental harm to people but this is not the same thing. Also, there is a severe lack of respite resources for caregivers (like, basically zero) and jokes about enduring "crazy grandpa" are hurtful.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:52 PM on May 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
Consumer Reports: How the Affordable Care Act Drove Down Personal Bankruptcy
posted by Existential Dread at 3:55 PM on May 2, 2017 [90 favorites]
Filings have dropped about 50 percent, from 1,536,799 in 2010 to 770,846 in 2016 (see chart, below). Those years also represent the time frame when the ACA took effect. Although courts never ask people to declare why they’re filing, many bankruptcy and legal experts agree that medical bills had been a leading cause of personal bankruptcy before public healthcare coverage expanded under the ACA. Unlike other causes of debt, medical bills are often unexpected, involuntary, and large.Incredible.
posted by Existential Dread at 3:55 PM on May 2, 2017 [90 favorites]
can I get a sort of sanity check on what the actual impact is of this
I am beginning to think that each executive order that Trump is signing currently has two purposes, the first being a law creating purpose which may be overturned, and the second being a command climate purpose.
So in real, practical terms, this will probably mean nothing at all for blue states, where you already have prosecutors who are willing, interested, and able to file discrimination charges. Where it will have most effect is in red states, where people would like to act on this score without having interference from the federal government. And if they are able to act on anything for four years, it will be very hard to turn back, particularly with our Constitutional protection against charging people for crimes that weren't crimes at the time they were committed.
It will increase partisan and reality divide, and make conflict more likely..
posted by corb at 3:56 PM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
I am beginning to think that each executive order that Trump is signing currently has two purposes, the first being a law creating purpose which may be overturned, and the second being a command climate purpose.
So in real, practical terms, this will probably mean nothing at all for blue states, where you already have prosecutors who are willing, interested, and able to file discrimination charges. Where it will have most effect is in red states, where people would like to act on this score without having interference from the federal government. And if they are able to act on anything for four years, it will be very hard to turn back, particularly with our Constitutional protection against charging people for crimes that weren't crimes at the time they were committed.
It will increase partisan and reality divide, and make conflict more likely..
posted by corb at 3:56 PM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
Jim DeMint Ousted From Heritage Foundation In Major Shake-Up (NPR)
posted by valkane at 4:20 PM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by valkane at 4:20 PM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
TPM: House GOPer: Move To Another State If You Have A Pre-Existing Condition
And I would quibble about the phrase "putting choices back in the hands of the states" because that implies the people who live in the states could decide but it isn't that straight forward. I think the people in NC sent a pretty clear message to our state capitol that the bathroom bill was not acceptable by firing the Republican Governor who signed the bill and replacing him with a Democrat but as you see from the headlines the Republican-controlled General Assembly has doubled down on the issue of discriminating against the LGBTQ community. The majority voice is muffled by gerrymandering and voter suppression.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:27 PM on May 2, 2017 [26 favorites]
“People can go to the state that they want to live in,” Rep. Robert Pittenger (R-NC) told reporters Tuesday morning when asked if people with pre-existing conditions could be charged much more under the American Health Care Act.Interesting that he should bring up alcohol sales because that was one of the things that irked me about moving to NC from CA-- the stranglehold the state has over liquor sales: choosing which brands are for sale, choosing prices, and above all, choosing the hours the state will sell liquor to you. Now that is not enough for me to sell my house and find a new job and relocate to a different state but if NC decided that insurance companies had to cover nothing and could charge as much as they wanted for pre-existing conditions (which NC would most likely do as our Republican overlords are particularly shitty) then I might have no choice but to return to CA otherwise I would never be able to afford insurance.
“States have all kinds of different policies and there are disparities among states for many things: driving restrictions, alcohol, whatever,” he continued. “We’re putting choices back in the hands of the states. That’s what Jeffersonian democracy provides for.”
And I would quibble about the phrase "putting choices back in the hands of the states" because that implies the people who live in the states could decide but it isn't that straight forward. I think the people in NC sent a pretty clear message to our state capitol that the bathroom bill was not acceptable by firing the Republican Governor who signed the bill and replacing him with a Democrat but as you see from the headlines the Republican-controlled General Assembly has doubled down on the issue of discriminating against the LGBTQ community. The majority voice is muffled by gerrymandering and voter suppression.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:27 PM on May 2, 2017 [26 favorites]
The emphasis on pre-existing conditions, which could be a state-by-state thing, ignores the extent to which the AHCA can screw over everyone by cutting Medicaid massively, having zero tax credits for insurance in states like CA and NY, and even hurting people who get plans through their employers by relaxing essential benefits.
posted by zachlipton at 4:35 PM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 4:35 PM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
As a former non-USian who could not conceive of going bankrupt for medical reasons, I find ACA's out-of-pocket limits are among its most important and least-appreciated parts.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:35 PM on May 2, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:35 PM on May 2, 2017 [10 favorites]
UK Defence Ministry Casts Doubt On Trump Aide’s Military Service Claims
Sebastian Gorka, an aide to President Donald Trump, has claimed roles relating to counter-terror, Northern Ireland, and in investigating war crimes in the former Yugoslavia — but the UK Ministry of Defence can't find evidence for any of it.
posted by futz at 4:36 PM on May 2, 2017 [11 favorites]
Sebastian Gorka, an aide to President Donald Trump, has claimed roles relating to counter-terror, Northern Ireland, and in investigating war crimes in the former Yugoslavia — but the UK Ministry of Defence can't find evidence for any of it.
posted by futz at 4:36 PM on May 2, 2017 [11 favorites]
And here's someone casting doubt on Dr Gorka's doctorness
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:40 PM on May 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:40 PM on May 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
Apparently that neonazi chump Gorka still has the confidence of the Douche Canoe: Still Gorkin' (TPM).
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 4:45 PM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 4:45 PM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
Email: Trump "directly involved" in post-inauguration hunt for rogue tweeter
posted by futz at 4:47 PM on May 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by futz at 4:47 PM on May 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
I thought by now Gorka would be sitting on the beach earning 20%.
posted by valkane at 4:48 PM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by valkane at 4:48 PM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
HuffPo: White House Leaning Toward Exiting Paris Agreement By Next Week, Sources Say
This now leads to one of the most absurd questions we have to ask ourselves nowadays: is this real, or is this step one in a three step campaign to try to make the President's daughter look good?
1. Leak that something bad will happen soon
2. Leak that Ivanka stopped the bad thing
3. Leak anonymous quotes praising Ivanka for her wonderfulness
Except they've already done that particular trick on the Paris Agreement and the religious discrimination order, so is this really:
4. Do the bad thing anyway, possibly with some meaningless moderating tweak, and insist that Ivanka gets credit for trying anyway
I miss the days when every government policy didn't have to be analyzed through the lens of what's good for the President's daughter's PR.
posted by zachlipton at 4:49 PM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
This now leads to one of the most absurd questions we have to ask ourselves nowadays: is this real, or is this step one in a three step campaign to try to make the President's daughter look good?
1. Leak that something bad will happen soon
2. Leak that Ivanka stopped the bad thing
3. Leak anonymous quotes praising Ivanka for her wonderfulness
Except they've already done that particular trick on the Paris Agreement and the religious discrimination order, so is this really:
4. Do the bad thing anyway, possibly with some meaningless moderating tweak, and insist that Ivanka gets credit for trying anyway
I miss the days when every government policy didn't have to be analyzed through the lens of what's good for the President's daughter's PR.
posted by zachlipton at 4:49 PM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
On one hand, I'm right there with you Corb. But we don't really need to go for a ride on the "is there going to be a civil/world war?" bus again because I'm not convinced that anyone in this admin can really think that far ahead.
If I assume that Trump, Bannon, et al. are at least as smart as me, and I like to think that's pretty smart, they can see a strong potential that this is all headed towards a civil war, right against left. Even if I don't think it's likely, I'm not the only one that sees this potential so it's fair to assume that they can see too so if it looks like they're doing things that help incite that conflict, they're doing it on purpose.
Most of everything else this admin does is evidence against that assumption.
I mean, I like white boards. I have a 4'x8' one hanging in my home office ($50 from the U of M reuse program!). But there is no way you'd get me to keep a list that BIG with writing that small on a white board. It's a PITA to write it so small and any asshole who slips the wrong way can destroy a third of your data in an eye-blink. Put that shit in excel, add a column to categorize them and another for status. Then add conditional formatting tied to the status. It's not like it's sensitive data. That's just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are a thousand other better ways to keep a list like that than IN TINY PRINT ON A FUCKING WHITE BOARD. It's like he's incompetent just because he knows it will drive me crazy, why else would a person wear two dress shirts under a blazer?!
posted by VTX at 4:50 PM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
If I assume that Trump, Bannon, et al. are at least as smart as me, and I like to think that's pretty smart, they can see a strong potential that this is all headed towards a civil war, right against left. Even if I don't think it's likely, I'm not the only one that sees this potential so it's fair to assume that they can see too so if it looks like they're doing things that help incite that conflict, they're doing it on purpose.
Most of everything else this admin does is evidence against that assumption.
I mean, I like white boards. I have a 4'x8' one hanging in my home office ($50 from the U of M reuse program!). But there is no way you'd get me to keep a list that BIG with writing that small on a white board. It's a PITA to write it so small and any asshole who slips the wrong way can destroy a third of your data in an eye-blink. Put that shit in excel, add a column to categorize them and another for status. Then add conditional formatting tied to the status. It's not like it's sensitive data. That's just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are a thousand other better ways to keep a list like that than IN TINY PRINT ON A FUCKING WHITE BOARD. It's like he's incompetent just because he knows it will drive me crazy, why else would a person wear two dress shirts under a blazer?!
posted by VTX at 4:50 PM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
Breaking: Trump Administration Reverses Course on Obamacare’s Civil Rights Protections
The Trump administration plans to roll back sweeping federal nondiscrimination provisions enacted under the Affordable Care Act (ACA) that protect transgender people and pregnant people.
The U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) filed a motion for what’s known as a voluntary remand and stay. Doing so will pause ongoing litigation in a conservative Texas federal district court that had temporarily blocked the Section 1557 regulations and send the regulations back to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS)—presumably to gut them.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:51 PM on May 2, 2017 [12 favorites]
The Trump administration plans to roll back sweeping federal nondiscrimination provisions enacted under the Affordable Care Act (ACA) that protect transgender people and pregnant people.
The U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) filed a motion for what’s known as a voluntary remand and stay. Doing so will pause ongoing litigation in a conservative Texas federal district court that had temporarily blocked the Section 1557 regulations and send the regulations back to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS)—presumably to gut them.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:51 PM on May 2, 2017 [12 favorites]
“We’re putting choices back in the hands of the states. That’s what Jeffersonian democracy provides for.”
Ah, the Republican perversion of the Brandeis argument that states are the meth labs of democracy.
posted by JackFlash at 4:52 PM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
Ah, the Republican perversion of the Brandeis argument that states are the meth labs of democracy.
posted by JackFlash at 4:52 PM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
I miss the days when every government policy didn't have to be analyzed through the lens of what's good for the President's daughter's PR.
Did somebody say PR?
Think Progress: Government-funded website promotes Ivanka Trump’s new book
Federal employees aren’t supposed to use public offices for private gain.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:01 PM on May 2, 2017 [17 favorites]
Did somebody say PR?
Think Progress: Government-funded website promotes Ivanka Trump’s new book
Federal employees aren’t supposed to use public offices for private gain.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:01 PM on May 2, 2017 [17 favorites]
WSJ: Donald Trump Raises His GOP Allies’ Stress Levels
Some of the meetings with reporters were part of an official “100 Days” media plan. Others took place without the knowledge of press secretary Sean Spicer and his staff.posted by zachlipton at 5:08 PM on May 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
Mr. Spicer was “livid for days” after learning that one reporter with whom he has a long-running feud had been in the Oval Office interviewing his boss, said one official. “It’s been pretty on-the-fly,” the official continued. “He’s made a lot of news. It’s been largely positive.”
Thing is, I don't get why the GOP moderates just don't throw in with the Ds and start fixing Obamacare. They've got to be tired of those strident fuckers in the Freedom Caucus by now - why not give them a nice thick middle finger and figure it out amongst the adults - there are only 20-or-so of these idiots, and moderate GOPs and Ds could get something out, and start taking control of their party back from the crazy wing: I mean, is cross-aisle cooperation such a death knell, considering that many of the moderates are from not-so-red areas that would actually appreciate a little mature behavior?
posted by eclectist at 5:08 PM on May 2, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by eclectist at 5:08 PM on May 2, 2017 [13 favorites]
Yea, keep telling yourself the coverage has been positive.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:09 PM on May 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:09 PM on May 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
Thing is, I don't get why the GOP moderates just don't throw in with the Ds and start fixing Obamacare. They've got to be tired of those strident fuckers in the Freedom Caucus by now - why not give them a nice thick middle finger and figure it out amongst the adults - there are only 20-or-so of these idiots, and moderate GOPs and Ds could get something out, and start taking control of their party back from the crazy wing.
A) There are no GOP moderates. They'd repeal Obamacare entirely tomorrow. The 20 or so holdouts are only afraid of losing their seats.
B) If the so called moderates did work with Democrats, they'd be primaried. This is what they're most worried about.
B) Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell would never bring any Democratic bill to the floor.
There's no working with Republicans. There is only defeating them.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:12 PM on May 2, 2017 [55 favorites]
A) There are no GOP moderates. They'd repeal Obamacare entirely tomorrow. The 20 or so holdouts are only afraid of losing their seats.
B) If the so called moderates did work with Democrats, they'd be primaried. This is what they're most worried about.
B) Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell would never bring any Democratic bill to the floor.
There's no working with Republicans. There is only defeating them.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:12 PM on May 2, 2017 [55 favorites]
> Mr. Spicer was “livid for days” after learning that one reporter with whom he has a long-running feud had been in the Oval Office interviewing his boss, said one official. “It’s been pretty on-the-fly,” the official continued. “He’s made a lot of news. It’s been largely positive.”
I don't have access to the full article, but is it possible to intuit who the source of this quote is from the wording? The choppy repetitiveness makes me think it's trumps himself, but it's bland and contentless enough to be priebus instead.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:14 PM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
I don't have access to the full article, but is it possible to intuit who the source of this quote is from the wording? The choppy repetitiveness makes me think it's trumps himself, but it's bland and contentless enough to be priebus instead.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:14 PM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
> why else would a person wear two dress shirts under a blazer?!
When Bannon pukes down the front of one shirt, he just has to take the top one off.
posted by porpoise at 5:47 PM on May 2, 2017 [16 favorites]
When Bannon pukes down the front of one shirt, he just has to take the top one off.
posted by porpoise at 5:47 PM on May 2, 2017 [16 favorites]
The choppy repetitiveness makes me think it's trumps himself
I can't imagine Trump saying "livid". The man's not big on creative synonym choice. If it were "mad", I'd say Trump, all the way.
posted by jackbishop at 5:48 PM on May 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
I can't imagine Trump saying "livid". The man's not big on creative synonym choice. If it were "mad", I'd say Trump, all the way.
posted by jackbishop at 5:48 PM on May 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
very, very mad. mad like you've never seen before.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 5:50 PM on May 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 5:50 PM on May 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
@RepDonBeyer
Video: Budget Director Mick Mulvaney admits @realDonaldTrump held coal miners' health benefits hostage as a negotiating tactic against Dems.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:53 PM on May 2, 2017 [38 favorites]
Video: Budget Director Mick Mulvaney admits @realDonaldTrump held coal miners' health benefits hostage as a negotiating tactic against Dems.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:53 PM on May 2, 2017 [38 favorites]
If I assume that Trump, Bannon, et al. are at least as smart as me, and I like to think that's pretty smart, they can see a strong potential that this is all headed towards a civil war, right against left.
And one of those sides controls the American military, police and intelligence apparatus? Nothing remotely like a "civil war" is possible in modern America; any serious insurrection would be crushed immediately.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:59 PM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
And one of those sides controls the American military, police and intelligence apparatus? Nothing remotely like a "civil war" is possible in modern America; any serious insurrection would be crushed immediately.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:59 PM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
Billionaire Robert Mercer did Trump a huge favor. Will he get a payback?
The Internal Revenue Service is demanding a whopping $7 billion or more in back taxes from the world’s most profitable hedge fund, whose boss’s wealth and cyber savvy helped Donald Trump pole-vault into the White House.
Suddenly, the government’s seven-year pursuit of Renaissance Technologies LLC is blanketed in political intrigue, now that the hedge fund’s reclusive, anti-establishment co-chief executive, Robert Mercer, has morphed into a political force who might be owed a big presidential favor.
Since the IRS found in 2010 that a complicated banking method used by Renaissance and about 10 other hedge funds was a tax-avoidance scheme, Mercer has gotten increasingly active in politics. According to data from the Center for Responsive Politics, he doled out more than $22 million to outside conservative groups seeking to influence last year’s elections, while advocating the abolition of the IRS and much of the federal government.
The IRS recently released a little-noticed advisory stating that its top targets in future business audits will include so-called “basket options,” the instruments that Renaissance and some other hedge funds have used to convert short-term capital gains to long-term profits that have lower tax rates.
The Mercer's are throwing a ton of dollar bills at organizations trying to oust IRS Commissioner John Koskinen or even impeach him at a minimum. Can you imagine owing $7 Billion in back taxes for 7 years with zero repercussions? Us peons would probably be in jail for non-payment of $27 Dollars. Fuck everything,
posted by futz at 6:04 PM on May 2, 2017 [55 favorites]
The Internal Revenue Service is demanding a whopping $7 billion or more in back taxes from the world’s most profitable hedge fund, whose boss’s wealth and cyber savvy helped Donald Trump pole-vault into the White House.
Suddenly, the government’s seven-year pursuit of Renaissance Technologies LLC is blanketed in political intrigue, now that the hedge fund’s reclusive, anti-establishment co-chief executive, Robert Mercer, has morphed into a political force who might be owed a big presidential favor.
Since the IRS found in 2010 that a complicated banking method used by Renaissance and about 10 other hedge funds was a tax-avoidance scheme, Mercer has gotten increasingly active in politics. According to data from the Center for Responsive Politics, he doled out more than $22 million to outside conservative groups seeking to influence last year’s elections, while advocating the abolition of the IRS and much of the federal government.
The IRS recently released a little-noticed advisory stating that its top targets in future business audits will include so-called “basket options,” the instruments that Renaissance and some other hedge funds have used to convert short-term capital gains to long-term profits that have lower tax rates.
The Mercer's are throwing a ton of dollar bills at organizations trying to oust IRS Commissioner John Koskinen or even impeach him at a minimum. Can you imagine owing $7 Billion in back taxes for 7 years with zero repercussions? Us peons would probably be in jail for non-payment of $27 Dollars. Fuck everything,
posted by futz at 6:04 PM on May 2, 2017 [55 favorites]
@RepDonBeyer
Video: Budget Director Mick Mulvaney admits @realDonaldTrump held coal miners' health benefits hostage as a negotiating tactic against Dems.
Jesus, like, literally, "so we could get something in return."
posted by Room 641-A at 6:04 PM on May 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
Video: Budget Director Mick Mulvaney admits @realDonaldTrump held coal miners' health benefits hostage as a negotiating tactic against Dems.
Jesus, like, literally, "so we could get something in return."
posted by Room 641-A at 6:04 PM on May 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
What the
Mulvaney cofounded the bipartisan Blockchain Caucus, "meant to help congressmen stay up to speed on cryptocurrency and blockchain technologies", and develop policies that advance them.[22]
posted by theodolite at 6:08 PM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
Mulvaney cofounded the bipartisan Blockchain Caucus, "meant to help congressmen stay up to speed on cryptocurrency and blockchain technologies", and develop policies that advance them.[22]
posted by theodolite at 6:08 PM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
anything is fair game to hold hostage in the post-truth political landscape that is America, it seems. Especially the truth.
I want to see the Dems hold out on the spending bill and shut down the federal government unless the R's include language that forces Cheetoh Hitler to make his tax returns public.
On preview: huh? There's a blockchain caucus?
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 6:08 PM on May 2, 2017
I want to see the Dems hold out on the spending bill and shut down the federal government unless the R's include language that forces Cheetoh Hitler to make his tax returns public.
On preview: huh? There's a blockchain caucus?
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 6:08 PM on May 2, 2017
Apparently the intersection of the (vaping redditor) (Tea Party whackjob) Venn diagram is hating women and bitcoins
posted by theodolite at 6:11 PM on May 2, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 6:11 PM on May 2, 2017 [12 favorites]
I wondered why Mercer was all up in Trump. They were originally backing Cruz as I recall. I hope that 7 Billion gets some front page traction. There's yer swamp, ladies and gentlemen. Thanks for putting the pieces together, futz!
posted by valkane at 6:14 PM on May 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by valkane at 6:14 PM on May 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
To be fair it's not like Donald Trump has zero knowledge of healthcare policy; his hotels have been experimenting with high-risk pools for years
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:18 PM on May 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:18 PM on May 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
Video: Budget Director Mick Mulvaney admits @realDonaldTrump held coal miners' health benefits hostage as a negotiating tactic against Dems.
Oy. Consider:
CDC: Black Lung Resurgent Among Kentucky Coal Miners
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:30 PM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
Oy. Consider:
CDC: Black Lung Resurgent Among Kentucky Coal Miners
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:30 PM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
Holy fuck that McClatchy piece... Mercer owns Bannon and Breitbart.... Donald Trump is president because Robert Mercer doesn't want to pay taxes! Putin isn't the only one holding strings on the puppet!
posted by valkane at 6:32 PM on May 2, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by valkane at 6:32 PM on May 2, 2017 [12 favorites]
The next Democratic president would do well to unleash the literal storm troopers on the Robert Mercer's of the world. 7 billion dollars of tax fraud is worth 7 billion years in prison, and look where Obama's pussyfooting with the blantant fraud by the 1% got us. How about instead of border security, we throw 20 billion in extra funding to the IRS and create an armed division tasked only with recouping unpaid taxes by hedge fund managers.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:37 PM on May 2, 2017 [46 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:37 PM on May 2, 2017 [46 favorites]
TD Strange for Pres, 2020. Strang-r things have happened.
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 6:39 PM on May 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 6:39 PM on May 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
Whoa, James Harris Simons, another quant and the guy who originally started the fund that Mercer now runs is a democrat and has contributed millions to Hillary's superpac... those guys must hate each other.
posted by valkane at 6:43 PM on May 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by valkane at 6:43 PM on May 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
Vote Strange 2020: Cmon, It's Not Like I Could Be Worse
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:43 PM on May 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:43 PM on May 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
icymi, the New Yorker ran an excellent, in-depth piece on the Mercers a few weeks ago.
posted by theodolite at 6:45 PM on May 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 6:45 PM on May 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
Here’s the Trick Republicans Will Use to Make Their Tax Cuts Permanent
Senate Republicans could simply vote as a majority to extend the budget window beyond ten years (a decade simply being a convention). The budget window could be 20 or 30 years. Then they could pass a huge tax cut for affluent people that expires, but the expiration date would lie so far in the future that it might as well be permanent.
Anything not written down in stone is vulnerable to the Republican quest for tax cuts for the rich.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:11 PM on May 2, 2017 [11 favorites]
Senate Republicans could simply vote as a majority to extend the budget window beyond ten years (a decade simply being a convention). The budget window could be 20 or 30 years. Then they could pass a huge tax cut for affluent people that expires, but the expiration date would lie so far in the future that it might as well be permanent.
Anything not written down in stone is vulnerable to the Republican quest for tax cuts for the rich.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:11 PM on May 2, 2017 [11 favorites]
They could do a lot of things. They could also get rid of the legislative filibuster and pass a permanent cut with 50+1 votes.
I doubt they'll do either. I expect a massive, shitty tax cut for the wealthy that sunsets in 10 years same as last time.
posted by Justinian at 7:15 PM on May 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
Since the wall is a total pipe dream that will never get built regardless of how much money gets thrown at it, but Trump's too stupid to realize that, the Dems could propose a deal: we'll vote for funds for your wall if they come out of recovered money from tax dodgers. You get 10% of the back taxes for the wall - best get to work collecting!
posted by jason_steakums at 7:17 PM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 7:17 PM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
Donald Trump, Room 1600, The Sivel War. A tweet that has to seen (it is a graphic image) to be believed. Prepare for hilarity - followed by a deep sense of sadness that such humor is possible.
posted by vac2003 at 7:32 PM on May 2, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by vac2003 at 7:32 PM on May 2, 2017 [13 favorites]
I have confirmed with my own eyes that this is real. @MELANIATRUMP, verified account, has liked precisely two tweets. The first was a self-like of her tweeting "Hello Twitter!" The second is of the tweet tweeted "Seems the only #Wall @realDonaldTrump's built is the one between him and @FLOTUS #Melania #trump"
Surely just a misclick by one of her staff, right?, but I'm going to believe she personally did it on purpose.
posted by zachlipton at 7:37 PM on May 2, 2017 [38 favorites]
Surely just a misclick by one of her staff, right?, but I'm going to believe she personally did it on purpose.
posted by zachlipton at 7:37 PM on May 2, 2017 [38 favorites]
The like has now been removed. I swear it was real.
posted by zachlipton at 7:51 PM on May 2, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:51 PM on May 2, 2017 [11 favorites]
I started a class in business ethics tonight.
There is an American in the class.
We were talking about something to do with the world and someone made an offhand sarcastic comment saying 'Hey don't worry all Trump will fix everything'.
Guffaws all around.
American says something along the lines of 'Hey come on now. Trump is an experienced business man he knows what he's doing ethics wise'.
She was serious.
I swear it was like the whole class just went into shock and 20 odd Canadians just turned slowly and stared at her in utter disbelief. No one said a thing. Just looked for a few seconds and then looked away.
Honestly one of the most awkwardly funny things I've experienced in a long time.
Before she could respond to this someone just said 'Okeee, moving on now, I guess' and thankfully changed the topic.
posted by Jalliah at 7:52 PM on May 2, 2017 [85 favorites]
Oh, Jalliah, I am very much looking forward to your future updates about this class.
posted by Superplin at 8:05 PM on May 2, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by Superplin at 8:05 PM on May 2, 2017 [28 favorites]
Once again, I am not fully aware of how twitter works, but I was surprised to see that Melania is not @realMelania or "verified" and no mention that she is FLOTUS? Is this normal?
posted by futz at 8:05 PM on May 2, 2017
posted by futz at 8:05 PM on May 2, 2017
Once again, I am not fully aware of how twitter works
I can feel your anger. It makes you stronger, gives you focus.
posted by petebest at 8:12 PM on May 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
I can feel your anger. It makes you stronger, gives you focus.
posted by petebest at 8:12 PM on May 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
Courtesy the Rachel Maddow Show, it turns out that, before he came out to rant and rave at the press briefing about how Democrats didn't really get a good deal on the budget, Mulvaney tried to have a conference call with the press. And it went extremely poorly. We're talking John Philip Sousa march playing, random beeping, and someone screaming "this is unbelievable" poorly. I strongly encourage you to take a moment to watch (jump to 1:25 if you want to skip Maddow's intro) if you enjoy bumbling incompetence and chaos, then weep because these are the same people who are trying to take away your health care.
posted by zachlipton at 8:12 PM on May 2, 2017 [37 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 8:12 PM on May 2, 2017 [37 favorites]
And it went extremely poorly
Hey, *you* try hosting a phone bridge with some kind of magical "lecture mode" and connected chat to field the questioners.
Tune next week as Spicey staples his tie to the lectern and answers all questions first, then calls on journos from a pre-set printed list which regretfully omitted the softball question on taxes and instead calls on the Ancient Aliens guy with the hair
posted by petebest at 8:23 PM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
Hey, *you* try hosting a phone bridge with some kind of magical "lecture mode" and connected chat to field the questioners.
Tune next week as Spicey staples his tie to the lectern and answers all questions first, then calls on journos from a pre-set printed list which regretfully omitted the softball question on taxes and instead calls on the Ancient Aliens guy with the hair
posted by petebest at 8:23 PM on May 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
Pretty much every publicly traded company, even tiny ones that are basically just stock scams, manages to hold investor conference calls without major incident by paying a few bucks for an operator who mutes and unmutes lines, calls on people in some kind of an order, and prevents this kind of chaos. So this would not be a fine example of "running government like a business."
posted by zachlipton at 8:27 PM on May 2, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 8:27 PM on May 2, 2017 [15 favorites]
Whatever happened to that conference call needs to start happening at every press briefing
posted by theodolite at 8:32 PM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 8:32 PM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
High school marching band blowin the fuckin doors down midway through the President's daily schedule. April Ryan tossing water balloons filled with glitter. DJ in the back playing every GG Allin track at once
posted by theodolite at 8:36 PM on May 2, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 8:36 PM on May 2, 2017 [9 favorites]
ELECTIONS NEWS
* GA-06:
-- Ossoff has reserved $5.2M in TV/cable/radio airtime.
-- GOP primary loser Dan Moody has declined to endorse Handel.
====
* SC-05:
-- This was the seat opened up by Mick Mulvaney resigning to be Trump's budget director. It is reliably GOP - Mulvaney won in '16 by 20 points, Trump won by 18 points. The Dem winner was ex-Goldman Sachs guy Archie Parnell; GOP side is going to a runoff. The general is June 20.
====
* VA Gov
-- Northam is up with an ad that calls for an assault weapons ban and calls Trump a "narcissistic maniac." Northam is the *less* progressive Dem candidate, you will recall.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:45 PM on May 2, 2017 [23 favorites]
* GA-06:
-- Ossoff has reserved $5.2M in TV/cable/radio airtime.
-- GOP primary loser Dan Moody has declined to endorse Handel.
====
* SC-05:
-- This was the seat opened up by Mick Mulvaney resigning to be Trump's budget director. It is reliably GOP - Mulvaney won in '16 by 20 points, Trump won by 18 points. The Dem winner was ex-Goldman Sachs guy Archie Parnell; GOP side is going to a runoff. The general is June 20.
====
* VA Gov
-- Northam is up with an ad that calls for an assault weapons ban and calls Trump a "narcissistic maniac." Northam is the *less* progressive Dem candidate, you will recall.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:45 PM on May 2, 2017 [23 favorites]
AHCA update: word has it that they're talking about some amendments that would somehow involve pre-existing conditions, possibly throwing more money, but still not nearly enough money, into the high-risk pools. Trump is personally trying to sell the thing, which never goes well, meeting with moderates tomorrow. But the more they change, the more they risk upsetting the apple cart on the other side:
posted by zachlipton at 8:47 PM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
More amendments are possible in the next 24 hours, two senior officials said, but the changes "can't be that significant, or we will lose the support from the Freedom Caucus," one of these officials said.As I see it, they're starting to zero in on pre-existing conditions as something lots of people are aware of and outraged about, and are desperately trying to find something they can pass that looks a tiny bit less horrible in that department. This would let them get away with massive Medicaid cuts and other awfulness, because more people care about pre-existing conditions than health care for poor people.
posted by zachlipton at 8:47 PM on May 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
Shouldn't the Commerce Secretary be aware of, ya know, the fact that missiles cost actual money just like fantastic chocolate cake?
Wilbur Ross Says Syria Missile Strike Was ‘After-Dinner Entertainment’ at Mar-a-Lago
Speaking at the Milken Institute Global Conference on Monday, Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross recalled the scene at Mar-a-Lago on April 6, when the summit with Chinese President Xi Jinping was interrupted by the strike on Syria.
“Just as dessert was being served, the president explained to Mr. Xi he had something he wanted to tell him, which was the launching of 59 missiles into Syria,” Ross said. “It was in lieu of after-dinner entertainment.”
As the crowd laughed, Ross added: “The thing was, it didn’t cost the president anything to have that entertainment.”
Billionaires Convene at Milken Conference for Trump Report Card
Four thousand of the wealthiest, most influential leaders in the world descend on Beverly Hills, California, this week for the annual Milken Institute Global Conference, in what amounts to a peer review of President Donald Trump’s first 100 days in office.
Oh silly me, the multi billionaire Commerce Secretary was just making a funny to other billionaires. Of course it didn't cost trump anything. It cost us lowly taxpayers. Not tax avoiders like this group. Wilbur was Milken' it for all its worth.
Trump is sending Steven Mnuchin, Wilbur Ross, Betsy DeVos, & Elaine Chao. Also, George W. Bush and former Vice President Joe Biden. Both are set to be interviewed by Mike Milken himself, the onetime omnipotent credit investor who later pleaded guilty to securities fraud
It is a who's who of Fuck You, I've Got Mine with a few(ish) exceptions if you don't squint too hard.
posted by futz at 8:51 PM on May 2, 2017 [15 favorites]
Wilbur Ross Says Syria Missile Strike Was ‘After-Dinner Entertainment’ at Mar-a-Lago
Speaking at the Milken Institute Global Conference on Monday, Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross recalled the scene at Mar-a-Lago on April 6, when the summit with Chinese President Xi Jinping was interrupted by the strike on Syria.
“Just as dessert was being served, the president explained to Mr. Xi he had something he wanted to tell him, which was the launching of 59 missiles into Syria,” Ross said. “It was in lieu of after-dinner entertainment.”
As the crowd laughed, Ross added: “The thing was, it didn’t cost the president anything to have that entertainment.”
Billionaires Convene at Milken Conference for Trump Report Card
Four thousand of the wealthiest, most influential leaders in the world descend on Beverly Hills, California, this week for the annual Milken Institute Global Conference, in what amounts to a peer review of President Donald Trump’s first 100 days in office.
Oh silly me, the multi billionaire Commerce Secretary was just making a funny to other billionaires. Of course it didn't cost trump anything. It cost us lowly taxpayers. Not tax avoiders like this group. Wilbur was Milken' it for all its worth.
Trump is sending Steven Mnuchin, Wilbur Ross, Betsy DeVos, & Elaine Chao. Also, George W. Bush and former Vice President Joe Biden. Both are set to be interviewed by Mike Milken himself, the onetime omnipotent credit investor who later pleaded guilty to securities fraud
It is a who's who of Fuck You, I've Got Mine with a few(ish) exceptions if you don't squint too hard.
posted by futz at 8:51 PM on May 2, 2017 [15 favorites]
Georgia switched from opt-in to opt-put for registering voters who interact with the state. As a result, registration requests have skyrocketed:
Statewide, there have been 559,179 voter registration applications through the Department of Driver Services since Jan. 1. During the same period in 2015, there were 95,102 voter registration applications from the Department of Driver Services, according to the Secretary of State’s Office.posted by Chrysostom at 8:52 PM on May 2, 2017 [15 favorites]
Looks like he's not blowing any more kisses at Comey. Also, third person. Rust Moranis finds it unnerving.
@realDonaldTrump
FBI Director Comey was the best thing that ever happened to Hillary Clinton in that he gave her a free pass for many bad deeds! The phony...
...Trump/Russia story was an excuse used by the Democrats as justification for losing the election. Perhaps Trump just ran a great campaign?
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:59 PM on May 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump
FBI Director Comey was the best thing that ever happened to Hillary Clinton in that he gave her a free pass for many bad deeds! The phony...
...Trump/Russia story was an excuse used by the Democrats as justification for losing the election. Perhaps Trump just ran a great campaign?
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:59 PM on May 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
Comey testifies at 10am tomorrow morning. It's a standard FBI oversight hearing before the Senate Judiciary Committee, not something Russia specific, but obviously it will be interesting to see what comes up. He also has a classified briefing on Russia set for Thursday.
And coming up May 8: Sally Yates!
posted by zachlipton at 9:01 PM on May 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
And coming up May 8: Sally Yates!
posted by zachlipton at 9:01 PM on May 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
Hey Chrysostom, what do you know about this and how it might play in the race?
Karen Handel's husband shares image urging voters to 'free the black slaves from the Democratic plantation'
posted by futz at 9:03 PM on May 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
Karen Handel's husband shares image urging voters to 'free the black slaves from the Democratic plantation'
posted by futz at 9:03 PM on May 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
For more on the Mercer family, check out this article by Jane Mayer, who has written extensively on dark money. She was interviewed about them recently on This American Life, as well.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 9:04 PM on May 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 9:04 PM on May 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
I don't get why the GOP moderates just don't throw in with the Ds and start fixing Obamacare.
I think this was actually Pelosi's plan, but right now I can't see any Dem working across the aisle and not having a lot of people show up angry at their office the next day. If they ever could cooperate, they can't do it while Trump is in office.
posted by corb at 9:08 PM on May 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
I think this was actually Pelosi's plan, but right now I can't see any Dem working across the aisle and not having a lot of people show up angry at their office the next day. If they ever could cooperate, they can't do it while Trump is in office.
posted by corb at 9:08 PM on May 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
Shoot, I meant to mention that Handel tweet. I may be just a rube here, but I actually kind of tend to believe the explanation that the guy re-tweeted without looking closely at it. It just seems too inflammatory to be purposeful in this particular race.
In any case, I haven't seen any response from the Ossoff campaign about it, so I imagine it will probably die down, unless we see something else like this happen.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:13 PM on May 2, 2017
In any case, I haven't seen any response from the Ossoff campaign about it, so I imagine it will probably die down, unless we see something else like this happen.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:13 PM on May 2, 2017
I think this was actually Pelosi's plan, but right now I can't see any Dem working across the aisle and not having a lot of people show up angry at their office the next day.
Are you fucking kidding me? It's the Democratic Party, if there's anything even halfway remotely acceptable on the table they'll bipartisan the hell out of it.
There has not been any halfway acceptable on the table.
posted by Artw at 9:17 PM on May 2, 2017 [13 favorites]
Are you fucking kidding me? It's the Democratic Party, if there's anything even halfway remotely acceptable on the table they'll bipartisan the hell out of it.
There has not been any halfway acceptable on the table.
posted by Artw at 9:17 PM on May 2, 2017 [13 favorites]
@RepDonBeyer
Video: Budget Director Mick Mulvaney admits @realDonaldTrump held coal miners' health benefits hostage as a negotiating tactic against Dems.
Jesus, like, literally, "so we could get something in return."
Mulvaney is the smirky conscienceless Clark Ingram of the Trump administration. Let's remember this is the guy who called Meals on Wheels and after-school meal programs wastes of money, and then was all, "What? What did I say?"
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:27 PM on May 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
Video: Budget Director Mick Mulvaney admits @realDonaldTrump held coal miners' health benefits hostage as a negotiating tactic against Dems.
Jesus, like, literally, "so we could get something in return."
Mulvaney is the smirky conscienceless Clark Ingram of the Trump administration. Let's remember this is the guy who called Meals on Wheels and after-school meal programs wastes of money, and then was all, "What? What did I say?"
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:27 PM on May 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
I think this was actually Pelosi's plan, but right now I can't see any Dem working across the aisle and not having a lot of people show up angry at their office the next day.
That's pretty ignorant considering 175 Democrats worked across the aisle and voted to pass the continuing resolution bill three days ago.
posted by JackFlash at 9:33 PM on May 2, 2017 [18 favorites]
That's pretty ignorant considering 175 Democrats worked across the aisle and voted to pass the continuing resolution bill three days ago.
posted by JackFlash at 9:33 PM on May 2, 2017 [18 favorites]
In which Hillary Clinton is accused of being an elite out-of-touch snob for making the perfectly ordinary point that many rural areas that voted big for Trump have no cell phone service or broadband options, and companies won't do business in your town if their phones don't work and they can't get online.
Thanks to the 140-character limit on Twitter and the usual outrage cycle, this quickly gets spun as Clinton's latest excuse, rather than a sensible point about investing in rural communities, because the need to fit every utterance into a "narrative" overtakes any sense.
posted by zachlipton at 9:35 PM on May 2, 2017 [43 favorites]
Thanks to the 140-character limit on Twitter and the usual outrage cycle, this quickly gets spun as Clinton's latest excuse, rather than a sensible point about investing in rural communities, because the need to fit every utterance into a "narrative" overtakes any sense.
posted by zachlipton at 9:35 PM on May 2, 2017 [43 favorites]
should have previewed before I clicked submit.
Many D's feel that because the circumstances at the moment are ... special ... that there can be no cooperation, that it has truly become a zero sum game. It fills my heart with sadness because this actually plays into the Bannon-Mercer idea of shutting down the government, just in a different way.
I have said for a while there are two Americas, overlaid on one another, deeply divided in ideology. How do you reconcile two countries in the same territory, in terms of belief about governance? How do you bridge that gap so that it becomes about finding the common ground, instead of this winner-takes-all game we have now? These are the questions that I ask my erudite friends, and none of us have good answers.
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 9:59 PM on May 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
Many D's feel that because the circumstances at the moment are ... special ... that there can be no cooperation, that it has truly become a zero sum game. It fills my heart with sadness because this actually plays into the Bannon-Mercer idea of shutting down the government, just in a different way.
I have said for a while there are two Americas, overlaid on one another, deeply divided in ideology. How do you reconcile two countries in the same territory, in terms of belief about governance? How do you bridge that gap so that it becomes about finding the common ground, instead of this winner-takes-all game we have now? These are the questions that I ask my erudite friends, and none of us have good answers.
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 9:59 PM on May 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
What is meant by "fixing Obamacare" here? What's broken about it, and what solutions would Republicans partner with Democrats on for this hypothetical legislation?
posted by tonycpsu at 10:06 PM on May 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 10:06 PM on May 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
and to provide us with insight into the worldview of the R layperson.
Don't rely on an AnCap for this.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:07 PM on May 2, 2017
Don't rely on an AnCap for this.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:07 PM on May 2, 2017
Many D's feel that because the circumstances at the moment are ... special ... that there can be no cooperation, that it has truly become a zero sum game.
But what you, and Corb, are saying is flat out objectively false about Democrats in Congress.
Just three days ago Pelosi and 175 Democrats worked across the aisle and voted to pass the continuing resolution bill. A bill that the Republicans could not even muster enough votes to pass on their own. The Democrats helped Republicans to keep the Freedom Caucus from shutting down the government.
In the next day or two Democrats are again going to help Republicans pass a new continuing resolution to fund government through September. This was an agreement worked out in cooperation between Democrats and Republicans. A bill that Republicans can't pass, even though they have a majority, without Democratic cooperation. Democrats are saving Republicans from their own suicidal tendencies.
So please spare us from all your ridiculous handwringing about Democratic obstruction because is just ain't true.
posted by JackFlash at 10:13 PM on May 2, 2017 [107 favorites]
But what you, and Corb, are saying is flat out objectively false about Democrats in Congress.
Just three days ago Pelosi and 175 Democrats worked across the aisle and voted to pass the continuing resolution bill. A bill that the Republicans could not even muster enough votes to pass on their own. The Democrats helped Republicans to keep the Freedom Caucus from shutting down the government.
In the next day or two Democrats are again going to help Republicans pass a new continuing resolution to fund government through September. This was an agreement worked out in cooperation between Democrats and Republicans. A bill that Republicans can't pass, even though they have a majority, without Democratic cooperation. Democrats are saving Republicans from their own suicidal tendencies.
So please spare us from all your ridiculous handwringing about Democratic obstruction because is just ain't true.
posted by JackFlash at 10:13 PM on May 2, 2017 [107 favorites]
What is meant by "fixing Obamacare" here? What's broken about it, and what solutions would Republicans partner with Democrats on for this hypothetical legislation?
The coverage gap needs to be solved by giving out free Medicaid equivalent coverage to people in states who didn't expand Medicaid under the ACA.
posted by Talez at 10:22 PM on May 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
The coverage gap needs to be solved by giving out free Medicaid equivalent coverage to people in states who didn't expand Medicaid under the ACA.
posted by Talez at 10:22 PM on May 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
> The coverage gap needs to be solved by giving out free Medicaid equivalent coverage to people in states who didn't expand the ACA.
I'm aware of the weaknesses of the ACA. What I'm not aware of is any proposals coming from conservatives that would attempt to address those weaknesses in any meaningful way.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:24 PM on May 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm aware of the weaknesses of the ACA. What I'm not aware of is any proposals coming from conservatives that would attempt to address those weaknesses in any meaningful way.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:24 PM on May 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
The GOP's rhetorical attacks on the ACA had basically been from the left. What they're trying to pass with the AHCA is from the right.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:31 PM on May 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 10:31 PM on May 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
I have said for a while there are two Americas, overlaid on one another, deeply divided in ideology. How do you reconcile two countries in the same territory, in terms of belief about governance? How do you bridge that gap so that it becomes about finding the common ground, instead of this winner-takes-all game we have now? These are the questions that I ask my erudite friends, and none of us have good answers.
I don't think the Republicans have had a positive model of government since they used the Southern Strategy to successfully scoop up the racists angry about the Voting Rights Act and Civil Rights Act.
You're proposing we find the 'common ground' with a party that rebuilt itself to reach out to poor white folk who will lower taxes on rich white folk as long as those taxes don't fund government services that help the poor black family down the street.
What is the ... acceptable common ground when dealing with people running on a election platform of contempt for human suffering?
This is the argument to moderation fallacy, like trying to pick a restaurant with one party tantruming because we won't go to a place that serves kitten.
posted by sebastienbailard at 10:37 PM on May 2, 2017 [37 favorites]
I don't think the Republicans have had a positive model of government since they used the Southern Strategy to successfully scoop up the racists angry about the Voting Rights Act and Civil Rights Act.
You're proposing we find the 'common ground' with a party that rebuilt itself to reach out to poor white folk who will lower taxes on rich white folk as long as those taxes don't fund government services that help the poor black family down the street.
What is the ... acceptable common ground when dealing with people running on a election platform of contempt for human suffering?
This is the argument to moderation fallacy, like trying to pick a restaurant with one party tantruming because we won't go to a place that serves kitten.
posted by sebastienbailard at 10:37 PM on May 2, 2017 [37 favorites]
Here's a story about Mississippi that aptly illustrates why you don't want to allow Republicans to convert Medicaid to block grants in their new AHCA plan.
This is about TANF (Temporary Assistance to Needy Families) which provides a maximum of $170 a month of welfare assistance to a family of three. In Mississippi 11,717 residents applied and only 167 were approved -- 1.4%.
TANF is federal block grant money which allows states to write their own rules about eligibility. States are motivated to make eligibility hurdles high because they can keep any block granted money they don't spend on welfare to plug other holes in their budget, say, tax cuts for the rich.
In Mississippi they reject nearly 99 out of 100 applications, which is appalling. In a state that has by far the worst poverty rate in the U.S., with over 600,000 people living in poverty, they could only find 167 deserving families.
Under Obamacare, federal Medicaid money is required to be spend on Medicaid. It can't be redirected to other purposes. Under the Republican AHCA plan, Medicaid will be block granted, allowing Republicans to do with it as they please and you know how that will go.
posted by JackFlash at 10:44 PM on May 2, 2017 [108 favorites]
This is about TANF (Temporary Assistance to Needy Families) which provides a maximum of $170 a month of welfare assistance to a family of three. In Mississippi 11,717 residents applied and only 167 were approved -- 1.4%.
TANF is federal block grant money which allows states to write their own rules about eligibility. States are motivated to make eligibility hurdles high because they can keep any block granted money they don't spend on welfare to plug other holes in their budget, say, tax cuts for the rich.
In Mississippi they reject nearly 99 out of 100 applications, which is appalling. In a state that has by far the worst poverty rate in the U.S., with over 600,000 people living in poverty, they could only find 167 deserving families.
Under Obamacare, federal Medicaid money is required to be spend on Medicaid. It can't be redirected to other purposes. Under the Republican AHCA plan, Medicaid will be block granted, allowing Republicans to do with it as they please and you know how that will go.
posted by JackFlash at 10:44 PM on May 2, 2017 [108 favorites]
I think this was actually Pelosi's plan, but right now I can't see any Dem working across the aisle and not having a lot of people show up angry at their office the next day.
That's pretty ignorant considering 175 Democrats worked across the aisle and voted to pass the continuing resolution bill three days ago.
Of course they did. No matter how the GOP spins it they got nothing out of the continuing resolution. If the house republicans don't get it together before September expect the same thing then.
posted by rdr at 10:48 PM on May 2, 2017
That's pretty ignorant considering 175 Democrats worked across the aisle and voted to pass the continuing resolution bill three days ago.
Of course they did. No matter how the GOP spins it they got nothing out of the continuing resolution. If the house republicans don't get it together before September expect the same thing then.
posted by rdr at 10:48 PM on May 2, 2017
Think Progress: Government-funded website promotes Ivanka Trump’s new book
Federal employees aren’t supposed to use public offices for private gain.
Imagine a town where the local huckster gets elected mayor and uses the city website to display ads for his side herbalife business and his daughters amway shit. This is the Trump family but they're in charge of the whole country. I don't care how rich they are, at heart they are small-time cons. There's a quote from The Twilight Zone I think of every time I think of Trump: "This is a cheap man, a nickel-and-dime man, with a cheapness that goes past the suit and the shirt; a cheapness of mind, a cheapness of taste, a tawdry little shine on the seat of his conscience, and a dark-room squint at a world whose sunlight has never gotten through to him."
posted by supercrayon at 10:48 PM on May 2, 2017 [101 favorites]
Federal employees aren’t supposed to use public offices for private gain.
Imagine a town where the local huckster gets elected mayor and uses the city website to display ads for his side herbalife business and his daughters amway shit. This is the Trump family but they're in charge of the whole country. I don't care how rich they are, at heart they are small-time cons. There's a quote from The Twilight Zone I think of every time I think of Trump: "This is a cheap man, a nickel-and-dime man, with a cheapness that goes past the suit and the shirt; a cheapness of mind, a cheapness of taste, a tawdry little shine on the seat of his conscience, and a dark-room squint at a world whose sunlight has never gotten through to him."
posted by supercrayon at 10:48 PM on May 2, 2017 [101 favorites]
How do you bridge that gap so that it becomes about finding the common ground, instead of this winner-takes-all game we have now? These are the questions that I ask my erudite friends, and none of us have good answers.
Here is my very short non-fleshed out response. Obama tried with all his might to reach across the aisle. Remember the secret meeting that the worst of the worst Repubs had on the night of Obama's first Inauguration? The night they decided to become the party of NO? And NO it was from then on. This Clusterfuck is Republican led and sponsored. They fucked over the people of the United States. They admit it and are proud of it. Your erudite friends are not so erudite after all.
posted by futz at 11:11 PM on May 2, 2017 [64 favorites]
Here is my very short non-fleshed out response. Obama tried with all his might to reach across the aisle. Remember the secret meeting that the worst of the worst Repubs had on the night of Obama's first Inauguration? The night they decided to become the party of NO? And NO it was from then on. This Clusterfuck is Republican led and sponsored. They fucked over the people of the United States. They admit it and are proud of it. Your erudite friends are not so erudite after all.
posted by futz at 11:11 PM on May 2, 2017 [64 favorites]
Mulvaney tried to have a conference call with the press. And it went extremely poorly.
Any chance of a link to this which is not snappy.tv? I always get a "video not available for this browser" message.
posted by harriet vane at 1:05 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Any chance of a link to this which is not snappy.tv? I always get a "video not available for this browser" message.
posted by harriet vane at 1:05 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
> "I don't get why the GOP moderates just don't throw in with the Ds and start fixing Obamacare."
The House Republican leadership has literally arranged things so that any legislation not supported by a majority of the Republicans never makes it to the floor. This is known as the "Hastert Rule", or sometimes the "majority of the majority" rule.
So a bill could be supported by every single Democrat and 49% of the Republicans and it will never see the light of day. Up to about 307 representatives could support a bipartisan bill and it would never get passed.
That's why.
posted by kyrademon at 1:32 AM on May 3, 2017 [29 favorites]
The House Republican leadership has literally arranged things so that any legislation not supported by a majority of the Republicans never makes it to the floor. This is known as the "Hastert Rule", or sometimes the "majority of the majority" rule.
So a bill could be supported by every single Democrat and 49% of the Republicans and it will never see the light of day. Up to about 307 representatives could support a bipartisan bill and it would never get passed.
That's why.
posted by kyrademon at 1:32 AM on May 3, 2017 [29 favorites]
Recent Trump tweets: "FBI Director Comey was the best thing that ever happened to Hillary Clinton in that he gave her a free pass for many bad deeds! The phonytweet Trump/Russia story was an excuse used by the Democrats as justification for losing the election. Perhaps Trump just ran a great campaign?(tweet)"
posted by christopherious at 1:35 AM on May 3, 2017
posted by christopherious at 1:35 AM on May 3, 2017
"This is a cheap man, a nickel-and-dime man, with a cheapness that goes past the suit and the shirt; a cheapness of mind, a cheapness of taste, a tawdry little shine on the seat of his conscience, and a dark-room squint at a world whose sunlight has never gotten through to him."
Serling's narration was a little florid sometimes, but yeah that pretty much nails the guy
(I'd love to see Serling's Twilight-Zonification of Trump)
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 1:54 AM on May 3, 2017 [10 favorites]
Serling's narration was a little florid sometimes, but yeah that pretty much nails the guy
(I'd love to see Serling's Twilight-Zonification of Trump)
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 1:54 AM on May 3, 2017 [10 favorites]
>
It was covered near the beginning of The Rachel Maddow Show tonight (May 2nd)—official show site which requires a cable subscription login to watch a full episode I think, yt search for last 24 hrs, first result which is valid at the moment.
posted by XMLicious at 2:16 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Mulvaney tried to have a conference call with the press. And it went extremely poorly.
Any chance of a link to this which is not snappy.tv? I always get a "video not available for this browser" message.
It was covered near the beginning of The Rachel Maddow Show tonight (May 2nd)—official show site which requires a cable subscription login to watch a full episode I think, yt search for last 24 hrs, first result which is valid at the moment.
posted by XMLicious at 2:16 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
I was trying to think what Bannon's white board reminded me of. Something that's been in the news very recently, what could it be.....
Oh yes. Fyre Festival planning. Proper blue sky thinking there. Same destination, less spite and racism.
posted by glasseyes at 2:19 AM on May 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
Oh yes. Fyre Festival planning. Proper blue sky thinking there. Same destination, less spite and racism.
posted by glasseyes at 2:19 AM on May 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
Pelosi: Democratic candidates should not be forced to toe party line on abortion
Twitter's @randygdub:
Pelosi expressed doubt whether any hard-line antiabortion candidate could win a Democratic presidential primary. She also noted that the debate over abortion no longer boils down to whether a candidate is for or against the basic right to the procedure, but rather over whether and what types of limits should be imposed.
As a result, “within the Democrats, I don’t think that you’ll see too many candidates going out there and saying, ‘I’m running as a pro-life candidate,’ ” she said. “It’s how far are you willing to go on the issue — but let’s not spend too much time” on the subject.
“It’s kind of fading as an issue,” she said. “It really is.”
Pelosi pointed to Sen. Robert P. Casey Jr. (D-Pa.) as a case study in how the Democrats tolerate diverse views. Casey describes himself as personally opposed to abortion, but he has also fought alongside other Democrats against efforts to withdraw federal funds from Planned Parenthood.
Twitter's @randygdub:
dems are gonna look themselves in the mirror, take a deep breath and tell themselves 'we gotta get more racist'posted by Rustic Etruscan at 4:39 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
There's a quote from The Twilight Zone I think of every time I think of Trump:
S01E13 "The Four of Us Are Dying" is on Netflix, btw
posted by mikelieman at 4:49 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
S01E13 "The Four of Us Are Dying" is on Netflix, btw
posted by mikelieman at 4:49 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Both are set to be interviewed by Mike Milken himself, the onetime omnipotent credit investor who later pleaded guilty to securities fraud
Maybe they all just want to have cookies with Milken.
posted by Servo5678 at 4:59 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
Maybe they all just want to have cookies with Milken.
posted by Servo5678 at 4:59 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
I wonder how many twilight zone quotes would be fully applicable to our current trump predicament
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:00 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:00 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
I wonder how many twilight zone quotes would be fully applicable to our current trump predicament
Michael Chambers: [to the audience] How about you? You still on Earth, or on the ship, with me? Well, it doesn't make very much difference because sooner or later we'll, all of us, be on the menu. All of us.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:12 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
Michael Chambers: [to the audience] How about you? You still on Earth, or on the ship, with me? Well, it doesn't make very much difference because sooner or later we'll, all of us, be on the menu. All of us.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:12 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
As a result, “within the Democrats, I don’t think that you’ll see too many candidates going out there and saying, ‘I’m running as a pro-life candidate,’ ” she said. “It’s how far are you willing to go on the issue — but let’s not spend too much time” on the subject.
“It’s kind of fading as an issue,” she said. “It really is.”
Which is why you never see any pro-life billboards anywhere in the US. Why there are no security measures at Planned Parenthoods, or attempts to make sure poor or rural people can get abortions.
The fuck is this bullshit.
posted by dinty_moore at 5:29 AM on May 3, 2017 [31 favorites]
“It’s kind of fading as an issue,” she said. “It really is.”
Which is why you never see any pro-life billboards anywhere in the US. Why there are no security measures at Planned Parenthoods, or attempts to make sure poor or rural people can get abortions.
The fuck is this bullshit.
posted by dinty_moore at 5:29 AM on May 3, 2017 [31 favorites]
The right to my own body autonomy is not "fading as an issue."
posted by agregoli at 5:33 AM on May 3, 2017 [56 favorites]
posted by agregoli at 5:33 AM on May 3, 2017 [56 favorites]
The right to my own body autonomy is not "fading as an issue."
This, a thousand times this. I have been a voter for 14 years. I have voted in every single election, no matter how small. I have donated regularly, I volunteer frequently. All for a party that will make that statement? JFC.
This would be an amazing time for the further left/socialist/etc folks to make a stink. Abortion is absolutely a class issue. Stand up for us.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 5:50 AM on May 3, 2017 [29 favorites]
This, a thousand times this. I have been a voter for 14 years. I have voted in every single election, no matter how small. I have donated regularly, I volunteer frequently. All for a party that will make that statement? JFC.
This would be an amazing time for the further left/socialist/etc folks to make a stink. Abortion is absolutely a class issue. Stand up for us.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 5:50 AM on May 3, 2017 [29 favorites]
This morning NPR exhibited at least two astonishing failures of journalism in a single story Describing the budget compromise, political correspondent Domenico Montanaro mentioned Trump's tweet suggesting that maybe Republicans should embrace a government shutdown in order to achive more of their priorities versus the Democrats.
Host Julie Martin's response? Not "But it's unprecedented for a sitting president to endorse a government shutdown," let alone "that sounds like the rantings of a dangerously unhinged madman, not a president." No, her next words are "Let's move on to health care."
Way to bury the lede, Martin.
She and Montanaro then yuk it up over Hillary Clinton's pointing out that Comey's infamous letter about re-opening the email investigation over her emails as an example of her inability to let the election go -- hey, just like Donald Trump! Missing from the commentary by NPR's so-called political correspondent was any analysis at all of whether Clinton's statement was, in fact, accurate.
Were I their editor, I would tell them that they could either have a 25-word description of why her emails were at all newsworthy, that could not use any phrase like "raises questions," on my desk, or their resignations. Feh.
posted by Gelatin at 5:50 AM on May 3, 2017 [20 favorites]
Host Julie Martin's response? Not "But it's unprecedented for a sitting president to endorse a government shutdown," let alone "that sounds like the rantings of a dangerously unhinged madman, not a president." No, her next words are "Let's move on to health care."
Way to bury the lede, Martin.
She and Montanaro then yuk it up over Hillary Clinton's pointing out that Comey's infamous letter about re-opening the email investigation over her emails as an example of her inability to let the election go -- hey, just like Donald Trump! Missing from the commentary by NPR's so-called political correspondent was any analysis at all of whether Clinton's statement was, in fact, accurate.
Were I their editor, I would tell them that they could either have a 25-word description of why her emails were at all newsworthy, that could not use any phrase like "raises questions," on my desk, or their resignations. Feh.
posted by Gelatin at 5:50 AM on May 3, 2017 [20 favorites]
For pity's sake, Cokie Roberts' segment today was less annoying!
I imagine anyone who listened to NPR's many pledge week testimonials about their supposed great journalism is feeling mighty duped about now.
posted by Gelatin at 5:54 AM on May 3, 2017
I imagine anyone who listened to NPR's many pledge week testimonials about their supposed great journalism is feeling mighty duped about now.
posted by Gelatin at 5:54 AM on May 3, 2017
Well the woman didn't win, time to throw all women under the bus to win back the white men, right Nancy?
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:02 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:02 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
“It’s kind of fading as an issue,” she said. “It really is.”What the fucking fuck? It is not in any way fading as an issue. It's a huge issue that is about to get huger, because Roe is doomed and we're going to have to fight for women's lives state by state, county by county, street by street.
I am going to be so fucking livid if the lesson that the Democrats take from Bernie is that the path forward is to throw everyone but white men under a bus.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:15 AM on May 3, 2017 [53 favorites]
This morning NPR exhibited at least two astonishing failures of journalism
Oh. Yah - there's yer problem. This is a 1980's NPR expectation. Yeah they phased these out around '96. Then of course the whole thing went under around 2003. I think AIG bought them for awhile. Have you seen the new podcasts? They look pretty sweet.
posted by petebest at 6:26 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Oh. Yah - there's yer problem. This is a 1980's NPR expectation. Yeah they phased these out around '96. Then of course the whole thing went under around 2003. I think AIG bought them for awhile. Have you seen the new podcasts? They look pretty sweet.
posted by petebest at 6:26 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
This would be an amazing time for the further left/socialist/etc folks to make a stink. Abortion is absolutely a class issue. Stand up for us.
I heard about the story from left-wingers making a stink about it on Twitter, and at the May Day rally I attended on Monday, abortion rights for women were a common theme in the speakers' rhetoric and the marchers' signs.
I am going to be so fucking livid if the lesson that the Democrats take from Bernie is that the path forward is to throw everyone but white men under a bus.
Sanders was rightly raked over the coals for his sudden bout of pragmatism after campaigning on principle; Pelosi and centrist Democrats as a group shouldn't be spared the fire because their moral flexibility makes it impossible to expect better of them. As Katie McDonough put it in Fusion:
I heard about the story from left-wingers making a stink about it on Twitter, and at the May Day rally I attended on Monday, abortion rights for women were a common theme in the speakers' rhetoric and the marchers' signs.
I am going to be so fucking livid if the lesson that the Democrats take from Bernie is that the path forward is to throw everyone but white men under a bus.
Sanders was rightly raked over the coals for his sudden bout of pragmatism after campaigning on principle; Pelosi and centrist Democrats as a group shouldn't be spared the fire because their moral flexibility makes it impossible to expect better of them. As Katie McDonough put it in Fusion:
And so the question of the week for cable news hosts became whether or not there was room for “pro-life Democrats” in the big tent, which was as absurd as it was disingenuous, since Democrats who oppose abortion rights—and legislate that way—are already well-represented in the party. Of course there is “room” for them—they currently reside within the tent. But Democrats, from Chuck Schumer to Nancy Pelosi, nevertheless leapt at the opportunity to answer in the affirmative. (“We’re a big tent party,” Schumer said this week on “Morning Joe” while still offering that the big tent was also “pro-choice.”)posted by Rustic Etruscan at 6:33 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
I think somebody's about to get an invite to the White House... Venezuela's Maduro calls for new constitution.
posted by scalefree at 6:34 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by scalefree at 6:34 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yes, our right-wing slumlord president will definitely invite the representative of Venezuela's Bolivarian Revolution to dinner to show our countries' mutual friendship. I believe this.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 6:36 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 6:36 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Ben Carson Wants to Make Housing Available. Just Not Too Comfy.: As he toured facilities for the poor in Ohio last week, Mr. Carson, the neurosurgeon-turned-housing secretary, joked that a relatively well-appointed apartment complex for veterans lacked “only pool tables.” He inquired at one stop whether animals were allowed. At yet another, he nodded, plainly happy, as officials explained how they had stacked dozens of bunk beds inside a homeless shelter and purposefully did not provide televisions.
Compassion, Mr. Carson explained in an interview, means not giving people “a comfortable setting that would make somebody want to say: ‘I’ll just stay here. They will take care of me.’” .... Mr. Carson interjected. “We are talking about incentivizing those who help themselves,” he said, before again asking minutes later about how comfortable the facility was letting people get.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:40 AM on May 3, 2017 [18 favorites]
Compassion, Mr. Carson explained in an interview, means not giving people “a comfortable setting that would make somebody want to say: ‘I’ll just stay here. They will take care of me.’” .... Mr. Carson interjected. “We are talking about incentivizing those who help themselves,” he said, before again asking minutes later about how comfortable the facility was letting people get.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:40 AM on May 3, 2017 [18 favorites]
Yes, our right-wing slumlord president will definitely invite the representative of Venezuela's Bolivarian Revolution to dinner to show our countries' mutual friendship. I believe this.
He's already invited the hereditary despot of North Korea over, said he'd be "honored". You think he has any concept of Juche? He likes strongmen, regardless of politics. Holding a coup is a pretty strong move.
posted by scalefree at 6:49 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
He's already invited the hereditary despot of North Korea over, said he'd be "honored". You think he has any concept of Juche? He likes strongmen, regardless of politics. Holding a coup is a pretty strong move.
posted by scalefree at 6:49 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think that what Democrats need to do is to redefine what "pro-choice" means, and move the Overton window back to "individual women/people with uteruses have the right to control over their own bodies and reproductive issues - including the right to choose whether to have an abortion or not." Meaning, you can be personally opposed to having an abortion, and would never have one yourself, but if you believe that other women have the right to have an abortion if that's what they want - guess what, you are pro-choice! We really need to counter the religious right's message of "Pro-choice means KILLING INNOCENT BAYBEES OMG" and "Pro-choice means abortions for everyone every day and twice on Sunday!"
I think a lot of "pro-life" Democrats, and independents for that matter, are of the "I am against abortion for me, but I support Planned Parenthood and individual women's right to choice" stripe - and that is really pro-choice, not pro-"life." And for that matter, I hate the phrase "pro-life;" it's more like "anti-women" or "pro-Handmaid" or...somebody more alert than I am at this time of the AM can come up with a snappy label. What I do believe is that pro-"life" types don't give two shits about actual living babies and children, not to mention women.
And yes, there are anti-abortion people, but aren't these mostly hardcore Republicans now? Do we even need to be kissing "swing voter" (read: bigoted white people) ass to be successful?
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 6:50 AM on May 3, 2017 [34 favorites]
I think a lot of "pro-life" Democrats, and independents for that matter, are of the "I am against abortion for me, but I support Planned Parenthood and individual women's right to choice" stripe - and that is really pro-choice, not pro-"life." And for that matter, I hate the phrase "pro-life;" it's more like "anti-women" or "pro-Handmaid" or...somebody more alert than I am at this time of the AM can come up with a snappy label. What I do believe is that pro-"life" types don't give two shits about actual living babies and children, not to mention women.
And yes, there are anti-abortion people, but aren't these mostly hardcore Republicans now? Do we even need to be kissing "swing voter" (read: bigoted white people) ass to be successful?
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 6:50 AM on May 3, 2017 [34 favorites]
Thinking about all of the things which Democrats could have claimed as their unifying essence beyond working-class family values, like seriously they could just about write their own Iliad or Aeneid articulating a new quasi-mythical national origin story claiming all of the good things in American history and asserting that's what the nature of the newly-reborn Democratic Party in the 21st century is... I've had this somewhat tangential thought about messaging targeted towards people on the right.
Is there any point in Ronald Reagan's earlier career where most of his views until that point could be patched together to present him as the antithesis of the 21st-century Republican Party? Like, I know he was originally a Democrat, "accidentally" legalized abortion in California as its Republican governor, and some time last year someone linked to a fragment of a debate between him and Bush-43-to-be featuring hearty agreement about how sympathetic immigrants are and how America needs to be compassionate to them.
With Trump's effective disowning of Lincoln in his Civil War tweet series, I wonder if there's some kind of aikido we could do to go even further and claim Reagan's legacy too. Particularly while painting a parallel with Trump himself, of a (much more gradual) decline both in his faculties and moral fiber once he entered politics and succumbed to the temptations that led him to leverage racism for electoral success in his Neshoba County Fair speech and betray all of his promises and preside over the largest expansion of the federal government in history to that point, a mere shadow of the "true Reagan" who once was.
Any bits which don't fit could be attributed to the Cold War fears we can all so readily relate to now. A bail-out to the defense industry during his presidency to presage all other bail-outs, which he betrayed his principles for in desperate hope of ending the threat of Russia once and for all. An effort heroic in vision and intention even while perilously embracing and empowering the means of a "Deep State" defense-intelligence-industrial complex, but in the end buying us less than two decades before Russia began invading neighboring countries again. Followed up in the Trump Era, of course, with the Russian greatest coup of geopolitical intrigue in human history, completing the corruption of the Republican Party begun long ago.
True Reagan Republicans who kept faith in the uncorrupted original man who fought fascists with the rest of the Greatest Generation would denounce and disown Trump's craven and dissolute Republican Party who could not put up any more than the most feeble flaccid resistance at the siren's call of that same fascism when it gave them the opportunity to grasp for power.
I mean if we could construct a messaging thrust that forces a dichotomy between conceding how completely un-American the shit going on now is and denouncing some statement or act of Ronald Reagan, maybe we could win some people over and the heads of the rest of them would simply explode.
posted by XMLicious at 6:51 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Is there any point in Ronald Reagan's earlier career where most of his views until that point could be patched together to present him as the antithesis of the 21st-century Republican Party? Like, I know he was originally a Democrat, "accidentally" legalized abortion in California as its Republican governor, and some time last year someone linked to a fragment of a debate between him and Bush-43-to-be featuring hearty agreement about how sympathetic immigrants are and how America needs to be compassionate to them.
With Trump's effective disowning of Lincoln in his Civil War tweet series, I wonder if there's some kind of aikido we could do to go even further and claim Reagan's legacy too. Particularly while painting a parallel with Trump himself, of a (much more gradual) decline both in his faculties and moral fiber once he entered politics and succumbed to the temptations that led him to leverage racism for electoral success in his Neshoba County Fair speech and betray all of his promises and preside over the largest expansion of the federal government in history to that point, a mere shadow of the "true Reagan" who once was.
Any bits which don't fit could be attributed to the Cold War fears we can all so readily relate to now. A bail-out to the defense industry during his presidency to presage all other bail-outs, which he betrayed his principles for in desperate hope of ending the threat of Russia once and for all. An effort heroic in vision and intention even while perilously embracing and empowering the means of a "Deep State" defense-intelligence-industrial complex, but in the end buying us less than two decades before Russia began invading neighboring countries again. Followed up in the Trump Era, of course, with the Russian greatest coup of geopolitical intrigue in human history, completing the corruption of the Republican Party begun long ago.
True Reagan Republicans who kept faith in the uncorrupted original man who fought fascists with the rest of the Greatest Generation would denounce and disown Trump's craven and dissolute Republican Party who could not put up any more than the most feeble flaccid resistance at the siren's call of that same fascism when it gave them the opportunity to grasp for power.
I mean if we could construct a messaging thrust that forces a dichotomy between conceding how completely un-American the shit going on now is and denouncing some statement or act of Ronald Reagan, maybe we could win some people over and the heads of the rest of them would simply explode.
posted by XMLicious at 6:51 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
And yes, there are anti-abortion people, but aren't these mostly hardcore Republicans now? Do we even need to be kissing "swing voter" (read: bigoted white people) ass to be successful?
Sadly, there are a lot of voters that would consider voting Democrat, but feel like they have to vote Republican to save the babies - and abortion being legal at all means dead babies to them. They at least claim that they would vote for an anti-abortion Democrat. I don't know what to do about that.
posted by dinty_moore at 6:56 AM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
Sadly, there are a lot of voters that would consider voting Democrat, but feel like they have to vote Republican to save the babies - and abortion being legal at all means dead babies to them. They at least claim that they would vote for an anti-abortion Democrat. I don't know what to do about that.
posted by dinty_moore at 6:56 AM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
I think this was actually Pelosi's plan, but right now I can't see any Dem working across the aisle and not having a lot of people show up angry at their office the next day.
Are you fucking kidding me? It's the Democratic Party, if there's anything even halfway remotely acceptable on the table they'll bipartisan the hell out of it.
I am compelled to point out that the budget agreement was passed with Democratic votes, working across the aisle and bipartisan and all that.
But because the Democrats were, mirabile dictu, not feckless about the leverage they had with the Republicans needing them, they generally achieved their legislative priorities, and so Democrats as a whole -- myself, certainly -- are fairly happy with them. No, the angry one is Trump, who sent out tweets complaining about the Democrats getting a win.
I know it must be tough seeing your illusions about political party stripped away so irrefutably, but Democrats don't see the process of compromising as anathema. Their voters are, rightly, suspicious about Democratic politicians selling them out in the name of "bipartisanship" -- defined by the so-called "liberal media" as "doing what the Republicans want" -- but as Democrats, we are interested in good outcomes. If working with any Republicans that are willing to be reasonable achieves that aim, fine and dandy. But in truth, it's the Republicans who take the risk in that scenario, as has already been pointed out, and it's the Republican leadership who created that situation.
posted by Gelatin at 6:59 AM on May 3, 2017 [19 favorites]
Are you fucking kidding me? It's the Democratic Party, if there's anything even halfway remotely acceptable on the table they'll bipartisan the hell out of it.
I am compelled to point out that the budget agreement was passed with Democratic votes, working across the aisle and bipartisan and all that.
But because the Democrats were, mirabile dictu, not feckless about the leverage they had with the Republicans needing them, they generally achieved their legislative priorities, and so Democrats as a whole -- myself, certainly -- are fairly happy with them. No, the angry one is Trump, who sent out tweets complaining about the Democrats getting a win.
I know it must be tough seeing your illusions about political party stripped away so irrefutably, but Democrats don't see the process of compromising as anathema. Their voters are, rightly, suspicious about Democratic politicians selling them out in the name of "bipartisanship" -- defined by the so-called "liberal media" as "doing what the Republicans want" -- but as Democrats, we are interested in good outcomes. If working with any Republicans that are willing to be reasonable achieves that aim, fine and dandy. But in truth, it's the Republicans who take the risk in that scenario, as has already been pointed out, and it's the Republican leadership who created that situation.
posted by Gelatin at 6:59 AM on May 3, 2017 [19 favorites]
I hate the phrase "pro-life;" it's more like "anti-women" or "pro-Handmaid" or...somebody more alert than I am at this time of the AM can come up with a snappy label.
Forced birth is the term you're looking for. I've started carrying signs at rallies/protests that just say "END FORCED BIRTH" -- it's an accurate description, it gets attention (overwhelmingly positive attention in liberal-oasis NYC), and helps change the discourse away from the "pro-life" bullshit. I mean, there are four ways a pregnancy can end: miscarriage, abortion, childbirth, and death of the pregnant person. So, if you're against abortion, and say you're not in favor of forced childbirth, you're either calling for more miscarriages or more deaths of pregnant people or both.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:06 AM on May 3, 2017 [47 favorites]
Forced birth is the term you're looking for. I've started carrying signs at rallies/protests that just say "END FORCED BIRTH" -- it's an accurate description, it gets attention (overwhelmingly positive attention in liberal-oasis NYC), and helps change the discourse away from the "pro-life" bullshit. I mean, there are four ways a pregnancy can end: miscarriage, abortion, childbirth, and death of the pregnant person. So, if you're against abortion, and say you're not in favor of forced childbirth, you're either calling for more miscarriages or more deaths of pregnant people or both.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:06 AM on May 3, 2017 [47 favorites]
in 2018 i will hit the goddamn pavement hard for any full-blown socialist who runs in the democratic primary at any level. i want to put the fear of god into every democratic incumbent in america with a hard push from the hard left
posted by murphy slaw at 7:06 AM on May 3, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 7:06 AM on May 3, 2017 [10 favorites]
Sadly, there are a lot of voters that would consider voting Democrat, but feel like they have to vote Republican to save the babies - and abortion being legal at all means dead babies to them. They at least claim that they would vote for an anti-abortion Democrat. I don't know what to do about that.
First of all, I am not convinced that there are a "lot" of people who would be Democrats if only it weren't for abortion. I would like to see a cite on that.
Secondly, for that hypothetical voter you could say:
"Democratic pro-choice, pro-contraception policies actually reduce the rate of abortions. Women who do choose to have children will be able to do so safely because they have prenatal care. Democratic policies mean fewer abortions and healthier babies."
posted by emjaybee at 7:11 AM on May 3, 2017 [34 favorites]
First of all, I am not convinced that there are a "lot" of people who would be Democrats if only it weren't for abortion. I would like to see a cite on that.
Secondly, for that hypothetical voter you could say:
"Democratic pro-choice, pro-contraception policies actually reduce the rate of abortions. Women who do choose to have children will be able to do so safely because they have prenatal care. Democratic policies mean fewer abortions and healthier babies."
posted by emjaybee at 7:11 AM on May 3, 2017 [34 favorites]
"Democratic pro-choice, pro-contraception policies actually reduce the rate of abortions. Women who do choose to have children will be able to do so safely because they have prenatal care. Democratic policies mean fewer abortions and healthier babies."
and then those voters will hem and haw and come up with some way to discount this that doesn't reveal that their real motivation is punishing women for having sex
posted by murphy slaw at 7:16 AM on May 3, 2017 [33 favorites]
and then those voters will hem and haw and come up with some way to discount this that doesn't reveal that their real motivation is punishing women for having sex
posted by murphy slaw at 7:16 AM on May 3, 2017 [33 favorites]
First of all, I am not convinced that there are a "lot" of people who would be Democrats if only it weren't for abortion. I would like to see a cite on that.
Every Republican woman who's vaguely ashamed of it for any particular reason ("Trump said what?") says this. People here on MetaFilter often believe it of their own female relatives. And, as you note, it's bullshit, and they'll never be convinced of it, because they are Republicans and they have always been Republicans and it is hard as hell to admit to yourself that your tribal identity is based on you being stupid when you were 18.
posted by Etrigan at 7:16 AM on May 3, 2017 [13 favorites]
Every Republican woman who's vaguely ashamed of it for any particular reason ("Trump said what?") says this. People here on MetaFilter often believe it of their own female relatives. And, as you note, it's bullshit, and they'll never be convinced of it, because they are Republicans and they have always been Republicans and it is hard as hell to admit to yourself that your tribal identity is based on you being stupid when you were 18.
posted by Etrigan at 7:16 AM on May 3, 2017 [13 favorites]
@Jackflash - I went to bed after posting that comment. I should have specified D voters, as generally, the D politicians are dealmakers and seek bipartisanship, as you and many others pointed out.
@sebastianbailard - totally see how my comment is an appeal to moderation fallacy, and as I type this I hope to correct that with this post before I dip out of these threads again for a long minute. You did a good job of wording, in a little harsher terms, the exact problem I see though - the R layperson voting for R politicians who promise them nice things, then deliver them to the rich people in the name of greed, and the laypeople refusing to see how that hurts them no matter how much evidence is presented. Lacan
I believe would argue that this disconnect is the beginning of mental illness.
@futz - my 'erudite' friends include an english PhD student who writes papers on Trump's insidious use of the language, health care workers, and foreign nationals. They are all deeply concerned with what they see as a sudden turn of events in American politics. All of us are directly impacted by the policy decisions these clowns are making, and at the same time we are all of the liberal mindset - the 'in' crowd includes not just us, but to a large degree, the whole world because we see the world as deeply interconnected.
I like the wording that XMLicious shared, although I agree with Rosie M Banks that reaching out to bigoted folks may be an exercise in futility and that, having read through the follow-ups to my comments and having a long minute to examine the questions I asked, I think our efforts are better focused on local elections (especially offices related to voting/civil liberties), and simply getting more people to vote. I suspect that if we work on those ends, the questions I raised will become moot as then, dialogue across the ideological gap is not as important and we can 'win' at the zero sum game.
It sickens me to use wording like that to describe our political situation.
In terms of practical impact, because I haven't seen it shared yet in any of these threads, resistbot is a tool that turns texts to faxes for your reps. Have fun!
on preview, that link that roomthreeseventeen shared is just horrifying, and if you're watching the YouTube link on the Comey testimony, please do yourself a favor and hide the chat as soon as you open the window as it's pretty gross.
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 7:19 AM on May 3, 2017
@sebastianbailard - totally see how my comment is an appeal to moderation fallacy, and as I type this I hope to correct that with this post before I dip out of these threads again for a long minute. You did a good job of wording, in a little harsher terms, the exact problem I see though - the R layperson voting for R politicians who promise them nice things, then deliver them to the rich people in the name of greed, and the laypeople refusing to see how that hurts them no matter how much evidence is presented. Lacan
I believe would argue that this disconnect is the beginning of mental illness.
@futz - my 'erudite' friends include an english PhD student who writes papers on Trump's insidious use of the language, health care workers, and foreign nationals. They are all deeply concerned with what they see as a sudden turn of events in American politics. All of us are directly impacted by the policy decisions these clowns are making, and at the same time we are all of the liberal mindset - the 'in' crowd includes not just us, but to a large degree, the whole world because we see the world as deeply interconnected.
I like the wording that XMLicious shared, although I agree with Rosie M Banks that reaching out to bigoted folks may be an exercise in futility and that, having read through the follow-ups to my comments and having a long minute to examine the questions I asked, I think our efforts are better focused on local elections (especially offices related to voting/civil liberties), and simply getting more people to vote. I suspect that if we work on those ends, the questions I raised will become moot as then, dialogue across the ideological gap is not as important and we can 'win' at the zero sum game.
It sickens me to use wording like that to describe our political situation.
In terms of practical impact, because I haven't seen it shared yet in any of these threads, resistbot is a tool that turns texts to faxes for your reps. Have fun!
on preview, that link that roomthreeseventeen shared is just horrifying, and if you're watching the YouTube link on the Comey testimony, please do yourself a favor and hide the chat as soon as you open the window as it's pretty gross.
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 7:19 AM on May 3, 2017
Even setting aside questions of personal autonomy, privacy, bodily integrity, and liberty, there is no way to control the reproductive choices of women without affecting their economic interests. This is a simple fact that is beyond dispute. Pretending that economic questions are separate from questions of reproductive rights is wet garbage. The Democratic Party can't support working families by abandoning women to forced birth.
posted by prefpara at 7:19 AM on May 3, 2017 [43 favorites]
posted by prefpara at 7:19 AM on May 3, 2017 [43 favorites]
Here's one of the worst ads I've ever seen, from a guy running for Lt. Governor in Virginia.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:22 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:22 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
With Trump's effective disowning of Lincoln in his Civil War tweet series, I wonder if there's some kind of aikido we could do to go even further and claim Reagan's legacy too. Particularly while painting a parallel with Trump himself, of a (much more gradual) decline both in his faculties and moral fiber once he entered politics and succumbed to the temptations that led him to leverage racism for electoral success in his Neshoba County Fair speech and betray all of his promises and preside over the largest expansion of the federal government in history to that point, a mere shadow of the "true Reagan" who once was.
Any bits which don't fit could be attributed to the Cold War fears we can all so readily relate to now. A bail-out to the defense industry during his presidency to presage all other bail-outs, which he betrayed his principles for in desperate hope of ending the threat of Russia once and for all. An effort heroic in vision and intention even while perilously embracing and empowering the means of a "Deep State" defense-intelligence-industrial complex, but in the end buying us less than two decades before Russia began invading neighboring countries again. Followed up in the Trump Era, of course, with the Russian greatest coup of geopolitical intrigue in human history, completing the corruption of the Republican Party begun long ago.
So Democrats should claim Ronald Reagan while also noting that he was a racist, deluded old dolt like our current president. That doesn't sound like a recipe for success, man. It would probably be better for them to take up the banners of politicians who didn't deal with the Iranian theocracy to win in 1980, give aid and comfort to Central American reactionaries, fight on the side of apartheid in South Africa, deliver the killing blow to the labor movement, or leave many thousands to die of AIDS.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 7:23 AM on May 3, 2017 [21 favorites]
Any bits which don't fit could be attributed to the Cold War fears we can all so readily relate to now. A bail-out to the defense industry during his presidency to presage all other bail-outs, which he betrayed his principles for in desperate hope of ending the threat of Russia once and for all. An effort heroic in vision and intention even while perilously embracing and empowering the means of a "Deep State" defense-intelligence-industrial complex, but in the end buying us less than two decades before Russia began invading neighboring countries again. Followed up in the Trump Era, of course, with the Russian greatest coup of geopolitical intrigue in human history, completing the corruption of the Republican Party begun long ago.
So Democrats should claim Ronald Reagan while also noting that he was a racist, deluded old dolt like our current president. That doesn't sound like a recipe for success, man. It would probably be better for them to take up the banners of politicians who didn't deal with the Iranian theocracy to win in 1980, give aid and comfort to Central American reactionaries, fight on the side of apartheid in South Africa, deliver the killing blow to the labor movement, or leave many thousands to die of AIDS.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 7:23 AM on May 3, 2017 [21 favorites]
Secondly, for that hypothetical voter you could say:
"Democratic pro-choice, pro-contraception policies actually reduce the rate of abortions. Women who do choose to have children will be able to do so safely because they have prenatal care. Democratic policies mean fewer abortions and healthier babies."
Time and time again it's been shown these voters don't exist. Because it doesn't come down to saving the babies. It's about punishing women who have sex recreationally.
posted by Talez at 7:28 AM on May 3, 2017 [34 favorites]
"Democratic pro-choice, pro-contraception policies actually reduce the rate of abortions. Women who do choose to have children will be able to do so safely because they have prenatal care. Democratic policies mean fewer abortions and healthier babies."
Time and time again it's been shown these voters don't exist. Because it doesn't come down to saving the babies. It's about punishing women who have sex recreationally.
posted by Talez at 7:28 AM on May 3, 2017 [34 favorites]
Live blog of FBI hearings by Senate Judiciary Committee today by Lawfare. Happening now!
posted by StrawberryPie at 7:29 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by StrawberryPie at 7:29 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
It would probably be better for them to take up the banners of politicians who didn't deal with the Iranian theocracy to win in 1980, give aid and comfort to Central American reactionaries, fight on the side of apartheid in South Africa, deliver the killing blow to the labor movement, or leave many thousands to die of AIDS.
Yes. Let's leave the idea of claiming RR as a democrat in the dustbin of bad ideas.
posted by Sophie1 at 7:30 AM on May 3, 2017 [12 favorites]
Yes. Let's leave the idea of claiming RR as a democrat in the dustbin of bad ideas.
posted by Sophie1 at 7:30 AM on May 3, 2017 [12 favorites]
"Democratic pro-choice, pro-contraception policies actually reduce the rate of abortions. Women who do choose to have children will be able to do so safely because they have prenatal care. Democratic policies mean fewer abortions and healthier babies."
They don't believe this. There's nothing I can do to make them believe this. I have tried to make them believe this, and it doesn't work. It's frustrating that people think that reason will solve this battle, because those of us who have been fighting it are sure as fuck trying reason, and it isn't working.
Every person who gave their ultimate reason for voting for Trump as the Supreme Court falls into this camp. I don't know what people plan to get by ignoring that there are single-issue voters that are anti-legal abortion, but they really are out there.
posted by dinty_moore at 7:31 AM on May 3, 2017 [15 favorites]
They don't believe this. There's nothing I can do to make them believe this. I have tried to make them believe this, and it doesn't work. It's frustrating that people think that reason will solve this battle, because those of us who have been fighting it are sure as fuck trying reason, and it isn't working.
Every person who gave their ultimate reason for voting for Trump as the Supreme Court falls into this camp. I don't know what people plan to get by ignoring that there are single-issue voters that are anti-legal abortion, but they really are out there.
posted by dinty_moore at 7:31 AM on May 3, 2017 [15 favorites]
So Democrats should claim Ronald Reagan while also noting that he was a racist, deluded old dolt like our current president. That doesn't sound like a recipe for success, man.
No, the point is to create a fable that his racism was the product of his entry into politics, thereby making staunch opposition to racism and support of things like BLM at least compatible with reverence of Reagan. And not particularly to embrace Reagan as a representative of Democratic principles but to create a rationale enabling people on the right to convince themselves that the only reason they were ever Republican or Republican-curious in the past was that they were deceived by the unprincipled cloying morass of milquetoast politicized immorality that took down even their Great Man hero Reagan.
posted by XMLicious at 7:32 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
They say 'save babies'. They mean 'punishing women'. I'm very, very well aware of that, but they're still voting against legal abortions, and only voting against legal abortions, because in their mind punishing hundreds and thousands of other people is less important than making sure abortions aren't legal.
posted by dinty_moore at 7:34 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by dinty_moore at 7:34 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
Seconding what dinty_moore said. I've read about people who say "I don't care what the politicians do. They can be the most bleeding of bleeding liberals on other issues, but as long as they're anti-abortion, I'll vote for them."
posted by Melismata at 7:35 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 7:35 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
I have also been enjoying "forced birth" as a replacement for "pro-life".
posted by unknowncommand at 7:35 AM on May 3, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by unknowncommand at 7:35 AM on May 3, 2017 [11 favorites]
If ya'll aren't calling your reps about Trumpcare today, you need to. They are pushing hard to get it through the House. CALL.
posted by emjaybee at 7:38 AM on May 3, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 7:38 AM on May 3, 2017 [11 favorites]
The issue I have with "forced birth" is that it makes the birth the problem; I think the preceding 9 months matter too. "Forced breeding" doesn't quite capture it, but is a little closer.
Could dems accept someone who describes themselves as pro-contraception? Because a significant portion of the agenda on the forced-breeding side is directly anti-contraception.
posted by nat at 7:40 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Could dems accept someone who describes themselves as pro-contraception? Because a significant portion of the agenda on the forced-breeding side is directly anti-contraception.
posted by nat at 7:40 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's about shaming and being first to shame the other.
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:49 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:49 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Comey: "It makes me mildly nauseous to think that we might have had some sort of impact on the election."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:50 AM on May 3, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:50 AM on May 3, 2017 [9 favorites]
I don't understand why Comey didn't make his letter to Congress (i.e. Chaffetz) classified.
posted by diogenes at 7:52 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 7:52 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
The theory at the time was that Comey didn't have strong enough control over other folks in the FBI who would have leaked it anyway, so he tried to get ahead of the story.
posted by TwoWordReview at 7:58 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by TwoWordReview at 7:58 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
And that logic didn't apply to Trump investigations?
posted by diogenes at 8:01 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 8:01 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
Clearly not, because those didn't leak until after the election.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:04 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:04 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Could dems accept someone who describes themselves as pro-contraception? Because a significant portion of the agenda on the forced-breeding side is directly anti-contraception.
As a Democratic candidate, you can say "I personally would not choose to have an abortion" or "I'd like to reduce the number of abortions," as long as you make no move whatsoever to enact any law that limits a woman's power over her own body. You want to fund better birth control programs and sex ed? Great. I'll work with you. But no birth control method is 100% successful 100% of the time, and there are a whole host of other factors that make abortions a vital tool in women's full emancipation, so I'll never support any candidate that attempts to deny women their agency.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 8:04 AM on May 3, 2017 [22 favorites]
As a Democratic candidate, you can say "I personally would not choose to have an abortion" or "I'd like to reduce the number of abortions," as long as you make no move whatsoever to enact any law that limits a woman's power over her own body. You want to fund better birth control programs and sex ed? Great. I'll work with you. But no birth control method is 100% successful 100% of the time, and there are a whole host of other factors that make abortions a vital tool in women's full emancipation, so I'll never support any candidate that attempts to deny women their agency.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 8:04 AM on May 3, 2017 [22 favorites]
Even in the best light possible, someone as ineptly niave as Comey would have us believe him to be should've never gotten to be FBI director.
Sitting up there pretending like "how could I have known" anything he said about emails would be inflammatory and predijudicial is absurd. He knew full well the value of that statement because his agency conducted a months long partisan witch hunt while all the while he was being pressured by Republicans to do more.
His after the fact fiegned niavety is simply attempting to whitewash his culpability and avoid going down in history as the man responsible for the Trump administration. It's not going to work. He's going to be remembered as one of the biggest criminals in American history, on par with Benedict Arnold.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:05 AM on May 3, 2017 [28 favorites]
Sitting up there pretending like "how could I have known" anything he said about emails would be inflammatory and predijudicial is absurd. He knew full well the value of that statement because his agency conducted a months long partisan witch hunt while all the while he was being pressured by Republicans to do more.
His after the fact fiegned niavety is simply attempting to whitewash his culpability and avoid going down in history as the man responsible for the Trump administration. It's not going to work. He's going to be remembered as one of the biggest criminals in American history, on par with Benedict Arnold.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:05 AM on May 3, 2017 [28 favorites]
No. Pro-life doesn't punish women who have sex for procreation purposes.
"Pro-life" means no abortions for ectopic pregnancies, no abortions for missed or incomplete miscarriages, no abortions to save the life of the pregnant person, no abortions for fetuses with fatal deformities. "Pro-life" means no IVF. "Pro-life" means no Clomid. "Pro-life" means prosecuting women for miscarriages of wanted pregnancies - did she ever google misoprostol? has she ever donated to planned parenthood? did she ever express an emotion other than pure joy? did she eat sushi once? did she look at a bottle of wine? did she exercise too much? not enough? did she take an advil? did she not take prenatal vitamins?
Not everyone who terminates a pregnancy wanted to avoid said pregnancy - some wanted very very much to be pregnant. Abortion is necessary healthcare that will continue to be necessary even if we have 100% success in the prevention of unintentional pregnancy.
posted by melissasaurus at 8:07 AM on May 3, 2017 [116 favorites]
"Pro-life" means no abortions for ectopic pregnancies, no abortions for missed or incomplete miscarriages, no abortions to save the life of the pregnant person, no abortions for fetuses with fatal deformities. "Pro-life" means no IVF. "Pro-life" means no Clomid. "Pro-life" means prosecuting women for miscarriages of wanted pregnancies - did she ever google misoprostol? has she ever donated to planned parenthood? did she ever express an emotion other than pure joy? did she eat sushi once? did she look at a bottle of wine? did she exercise too much? not enough? did she take an advil? did she not take prenatal vitamins?
Not everyone who terminates a pregnancy wanted to avoid said pregnancy - some wanted very very much to be pregnant. Abortion is necessary healthcare that will continue to be necessary even if we have 100% success in the prevention of unintentional pregnancy.
posted by melissasaurus at 8:07 AM on May 3, 2017 [116 favorites]
I disagree with what appears to be the conventional wisdom here regarding Comey. I think he was potentially acting in good faith under difficult constraints. It is true that his actions had different consequences for the different parties. But that did not necessarily arise from a desire to impact the parties differently; even an impartial actor could produce different outcomes if the two investigations were different enough.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 8:13 AM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 8:13 AM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
Comey tried to play the Game of Thrones and lost.
posted by asteria at 8:14 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by asteria at 8:14 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
because in their mind punishing hundreds and thousands of other people is less important than making sure abortions aren't legal.
And there seem to be a lot of them for whom making sure abortions aren't legal is waaaaaaaaay more important than making sure abortions don't happen.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:17 AM on May 3, 2017 [28 favorites]
And there seem to be a lot of them for whom making sure abortions aren't legal is waaaaaaaaay more important than making sure abortions don't happen.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:17 AM on May 3, 2017 [28 favorites]
Believing Comeys explaination requires accepting his differing treatment of the Trump and Clinton investigations.
He knew about both. He repeatedly volunteered public comment about only one.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:17 AM on May 3, 2017 [43 favorites]
He knew about both. He repeatedly volunteered public comment about only one.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:17 AM on May 3, 2017 [43 favorites]
Comey: "It makes me mildly nauseous to think that we might have had some sort of impact on the election."
May he never stop throwing up.
posted by Gelatin at 8:18 AM on May 3, 2017 [58 favorites]
May he never stop throwing up.
posted by Gelatin at 8:18 AM on May 3, 2017 [58 favorites]
Trump freezes funding to groups fighting right-wing terror and white supremacism.
posted by adamvasco at 8:20 AM on May 3, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by adamvasco at 8:20 AM on May 3, 2017 [25 favorites]
asteria - I've been thinking that Comey is like Ned Stark or Rob Stark - men who think they are doing the right thing but have blinders on, not seeing the greater damage they may be do by their "noble" actions. Within small constraints, Comey thought he was acting honestly, but did not account for the bigger impact of his actions. (This does not excuse what he did, but rather points out the personal failing that caused it.)
posted by obliquity of the ecliptic at 8:20 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by obliquity of the ecliptic at 8:20 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
I think he was potentially acting in good faith under difficult constraints.
I felt the same way while he was explaining his actions. He sounds sincere. But I just can't get past the fact that he essentially went public with the "reopening" of the email case. Why go public?
posted by diogenes at 8:21 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
I felt the same way while he was explaining his actions. He sounds sincere. But I just can't get past the fact that he essentially went public with the "reopening" of the email case. Why go public?
posted by diogenes at 8:21 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
I don't understand this urge to try to invent reasons why Comey's motive might have been something other than sabotaging Clinton's campaign.
Why aren't we starting from the position that what happened was roughly what he wanted (keeping Clinton out of the White House)? I mean, sure, maybe he's gotten some regrets now that he's seen how awful Trump really is, or maybe he was always motivated more by "stop Clinton" than "help Trump". But shouldn't the starting position be that he was a rational actor who was working to achieve the outcome he wanted?
I mean, I'm willing to be convinced that Comey really was a perfectly honorable person who never tried or intended to kneecap Clinton, but that seems like something that we'd need active evidence for not something we should use as our starting assumption.
posted by sotonohito at 8:25 AM on May 3, 2017 [20 favorites]
Why aren't we starting from the position that what happened was roughly what he wanted (keeping Clinton out of the White House)? I mean, sure, maybe he's gotten some regrets now that he's seen how awful Trump really is, or maybe he was always motivated more by "stop Clinton" than "help Trump". But shouldn't the starting position be that he was a rational actor who was working to achieve the outcome he wanted?
I mean, I'm willing to be convinced that Comey really was a perfectly honorable person who never tried or intended to kneecap Clinton, but that seems like something that we'd need active evidence for not something we should use as our starting assumption.
posted by sotonohito at 8:25 AM on May 3, 2017 [20 favorites]
>As a result, “within the Democrats, I don’t think that you’ll see too many candidates going out there and saying, ‘I’m running as a pro-life candidate,’ ” she said. “It’s how far are you willing to go on the issue — but let’s not spend too much time” on the subject. “It’s kind of fading as an issue,” she said. “It really is.”
>The fuck is this bullshit.
My reading of this in context is that she is taking about it fading as an issue within the Democratic Party. She's not saying that it isn't a big issue in the fight against Republicans.
Maybe some people don't remember, but when Pelosi took over the House in 2006 she faced a rebellious caucus of forced-birth Blue Dog Democrats just like the Freedom Caucus in the Republican Party today. Obamacare came within a couple of votes of failing because of the Blue Dogs. It was an issue that threatened the ability of the Democratic party to pass their agenda just like Ryan is facing today.
Today, all of those forced-birth Blue Dogs are gone from the Democratic Party in Congress. There are still a lot of personally anti-abortion Democrats, for example Tim Caine, Harry Reid, and many traditional Catholics, but the force-birth Democrats are pretty much gone.
When Pelosi says that it is fading as an issue, she means it is fading as an issue that splits Democrats. Today, even anti-abortion Democrats are united in fighting for women's right to choose against Republicans. That wasn't the case until fairly recently.
posted by JackFlash at 8:26 AM on May 3, 2017 [44 favorites]
>The fuck is this bullshit.
My reading of this in context is that she is taking about it fading as an issue within the Democratic Party. She's not saying that it isn't a big issue in the fight against Republicans.
Maybe some people don't remember, but when Pelosi took over the House in 2006 she faced a rebellious caucus of forced-birth Blue Dog Democrats just like the Freedom Caucus in the Republican Party today. Obamacare came within a couple of votes of failing because of the Blue Dogs. It was an issue that threatened the ability of the Democratic party to pass their agenda just like Ryan is facing today.
Today, all of those forced-birth Blue Dogs are gone from the Democratic Party in Congress. There are still a lot of personally anti-abortion Democrats, for example Tim Caine, Harry Reid, and many traditional Catholics, but the force-birth Democrats are pretty much gone.
When Pelosi says that it is fading as an issue, she means it is fading as an issue that splits Democrats. Today, even anti-abortion Democrats are united in fighting for women's right to choose against Republicans. That wasn't the case until fairly recently.
posted by JackFlash at 8:26 AM on May 3, 2017 [44 favorites]
Comey thought he was just playing his part in shoring up odds of a GOP congress and in making the coming Clinton administration more ineffective and hobbled by scandal. Oopsie-doopsie. He's no Littlefinger.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:26 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:26 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
Adam Schiff reminds Comey defenders, his Clinton statements broke DOJ policy, even excusing his distinction between the Trump/Clinton investigations as open/closed. There's no way around that. There's no other explaination other than partisanship that is remotely credible.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:26 AM on May 3, 2017 [43 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:26 AM on May 3, 2017 [43 favorites]
I don't understand this urge to try to invent reasons why Comey's motive might have been something other than sabotaging Clinton's campaign.
I have experienced no more urge to invent than you have. From different starting points, different interpretations are natural from the same added evidence.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 8:30 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
I have experienced no more urge to invent than you have. From different starting points, different interpretations are natural from the same added evidence.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 8:30 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Comey thought he was just playing his part in shoring up odds of a GOP congress and in making the coming Clinton administration more ineffective and hobbled by scandal. Oopsie-doopsie. He's no Littlefinger.
Congressional Republicans were going to invent whatever scandal they wanted to out of thin air. He was making sure he wasn't pulled in for playing favourites for the then sure to be incoming Clinton administration.
posted by Talez at 8:32 AM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
Congressional Republicans were going to invent whatever scandal they wanted to out of thin air. He was making sure he wasn't pulled in for playing favourites for the then sure to be incoming Clinton administration.
posted by Talez at 8:32 AM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
Today, all of those forced-birth Blue Dogs are gone from the Democratic Party in Congress. There are still a lot of personally anti-abortion Democrats, for example Tim Caine, Harry Reid, and many traditional Catholics, but the force-birth Democrats are pretty much gone.
When Pelosi says that it is fading as an issue, she means it is fading as an issue that splits Democrats. Today, even anti-abortion Democrats are united in fighting for women's right to choose against Republicans. That wasn't the case until fairly recently.
The Heath Mello flare-up was like two weeks ago.
posted by dinty_moore at 8:33 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
When Pelosi says that it is fading as an issue, she means it is fading as an issue that splits Democrats. Today, even anti-abortion Democrats are united in fighting for women's right to choose against Republicans. That wasn't the case until fairly recently.
The Heath Mello flare-up was like two weeks ago.
posted by dinty_moore at 8:33 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
I don't think he did the right thing but I think his primary motivation was covering his own ass politically rather than being a good Republican servant.
posted by Talez at 8:33 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Talez at 8:33 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
Comey is the perfect example for why Democrats should not be "working with" Republicans, and why a Dem president sure as shit shouldn't be nominating Republicans for important positions, for Christ's sake! Easily Obama's biggest domestic mistake.
posted by dirigibleman at 8:35 AM on May 3, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by dirigibleman at 8:35 AM on May 3, 2017 [15 favorites]
Adam Schiff reminds Comey defenders, his Clinton statements broke DOJ policy
This is the key. Comey presents himself as a noble man following the rules even when it was painful. But in this case, he was breaking the rules.
posted by diogenes at 8:35 AM on May 3, 2017 [32 favorites]
This is the key. Comey presents himself as a noble man following the rules even when it was painful. But in this case, he was breaking the rules.
posted by diogenes at 8:35 AM on May 3, 2017 [32 favorites]
Comey Senate hearing stream.
Thanks from PST for the head's up. Tuned in just in time to hear the words "tax returns" come out of Sheldon Whitehouse's mouth and now my day is made.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:37 AM on May 3, 2017
Thanks from PST for the head's up. Tuned in just in time to hear the words "tax returns" come out of Sheldon Whitehouse's mouth and now my day is made.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:37 AM on May 3, 2017
Comey's excuse for commenting on the Clinton investigation and not commenting on the Trump investigation is that the Clinton investigation was closed.
There's no excuse for him saying anything in his first statement other than the FBI looked into the allegations against Clinton and would not be pressing charges. His unprofessional and unprecedented prosecution of her in the statement was pretty damaging.
However, I agree with Kevin Drum that she was still in a position to win in late October despite flaws in her campaign and external challenges and was derailed by Comey's second letter.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:37 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
There's no excuse for him saying anything in his first statement other than the FBI looked into the allegations against Clinton and would not be pressing charges. His unprofessional and unprecedented prosecution of her in the statement was pretty damaging.
However, I agree with Kevin Drum that she was still in a position to win in late October despite flaws in her campaign and external challenges and was derailed by Comey's second letter.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:37 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
Video: Comey says "yes" to the question if it's fair to say that the Russians are still involved in American politics.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:38 AM on May 3, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:38 AM on May 3, 2017 [27 favorites]
The theory at the time was that Comey didn't have strong enough control over other folks in the FBI who would have leaked it anyway, so he tried to get ahead of the story.
In the testimony he seems to imply that the FBI is actively investigating whether Giuliani and others had access to FBI insiders in the NY office.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:38 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
In the testimony he seems to imply that the FBI is actively investigating whether Giuliani and others had access to FBI insiders in the NY office.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:38 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
The Health Mello flare-up was like two weeks ago.
Yes, it's at the point at which even a Democratic candidate for the mayor of Omaha is questioned nationally on their previous reproductive rights positions.
That's a much more liberal place than the Democratic Party was even 10 years ago, as JackFlash notes.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:40 AM on May 3, 2017 [16 favorites]
Yes, it's at the point at which even a Democratic candidate for the mayor of Omaha is questioned nationally on their previous reproductive rights positions.
That's a much more liberal place than the Democratic Party was even 10 years ago, as JackFlash notes.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:40 AM on May 3, 2017 [16 favorites]
I believe we'll see the results of the Giuliani-NY office leaks at the same time Comey comments on the Trump-Russia investigation.
Which is never. He's playing defense for his own team. Nothing more.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:42 AM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
Which is never. He's playing defense for his own team. Nothing more.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:42 AM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
I think [Comey] was potentially acting in good faith under difficult constraints.
Among those constraints was perceiving a need to excoriate Clinton while announcing that the FBI investigation found no criminal conduct. Now, he may have done that, or kept mum about the existence of the Trump investigations, because he was afraid of a backlash from Republican leaders and Republican media, but in such a case questions of good faith are irrelevant. His acts were bad, and, one way or the other, it's due to Republican bad faith.
posted by Gelatin at 8:48 AM on May 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
Among those constraints was perceiving a need to excoriate Clinton while announcing that the FBI investigation found no criminal conduct. Now, he may have done that, or kept mum about the existence of the Trump investigations, because he was afraid of a backlash from Republican leaders and Republican media, but in such a case questions of good faith are irrelevant. His acts were bad, and, one way or the other, it's due to Republican bad faith.
posted by Gelatin at 8:48 AM on May 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
MetaFilter: It makes me mildly nauseous
posted by petebest at 8:49 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by petebest at 8:49 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
dirigibleman Comey is the perfect example for why Democrats should not be "working with" Republicans, and why a Dem president sure as shit shouldn't be nominating Republicans for important positions
Damn skippy.
Like so many old bipartisan traditions, the Republicans just killed that one completely. I can, sort of, understand why it might seem nice for a President to appoint a few moderates from the other party to their cabinet.
But thanks to Comey's dagger in the back that tradition should now be as dead as the judicial filibuster. Any future Democratic President (assuming we're ever permitted to win an election again) should remember the Lesson of Comey and never even think about appointing a Republican to any post. They are vile, loathsome, traitors who will abuse any position you give them to hurt you.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the only good Republican is an ex-Republican.
posted by sotonohito at 8:49 AM on May 3, 2017 [33 favorites]
Damn skippy.
Like so many old bipartisan traditions, the Republicans just killed that one completely. I can, sort of, understand why it might seem nice for a President to appoint a few moderates from the other party to their cabinet.
But thanks to Comey's dagger in the back that tradition should now be as dead as the judicial filibuster. Any future Democratic President (assuming we're ever permitted to win an election again) should remember the Lesson of Comey and never even think about appointing a Republican to any post. They are vile, loathsome, traitors who will abuse any position you give them to hurt you.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the only good Republican is an ex-Republican.
posted by sotonohito at 8:49 AM on May 3, 2017 [33 favorites]
But no birth control method is 100% successful 100% of the time,
Not even abstinence.
Partly because, as Mary found out, if God wants you knocked up badly enough you gonna get babbied.
But mostly because a woman does not have to desire conception _or even provide any form of sexual consent_ to be impregnated. A man can desire her, take her by force or take her by coercion or take her by deception or take her by intoxication, and she is now supposed to accept her fate and go through nine months of physical and mental and emotional trauma, risking her own life in the process, because a bunch of old men and Bible thumpers decided that the result is more important than acknowledging her basic humanity and dignity?
Fuck THAT noise.
posted by delfin at 8:51 AM on May 3, 2017 [77 favorites]
Not even abstinence.
Partly because, as Mary found out, if God wants you knocked up badly enough you gonna get babbied.
But mostly because a woman does not have to desire conception _or even provide any form of sexual consent_ to be impregnated. A man can desire her, take her by force or take her by coercion or take her by deception or take her by intoxication, and she is now supposed to accept her fate and go through nine months of physical and mental and emotional trauma, risking her own life in the process, because a bunch of old men and Bible thumpers decided that the result is more important than acknowledging her basic humanity and dignity?
Fuck THAT noise.
posted by delfin at 8:51 AM on May 3, 2017 [77 favorites]
I don't know. As someone who has been involved with reproductive and abortion rights for well over a decade, I do not feel like we're going forwards. The ground is eroding below us, and nobody can even bother convincing us that they're not going to let us float out to sea.
Planned Parenthood effectively lost funding last month in republican controlled legislatures, and nobody even cares. The reason why the Omaha mayor thing was huge was because the left wing of the democratic party was supporting him. These are people who a decade ago were adamantly against partial birth abortions. The blue dogs weren't so anti-abortion as you remember them, I think, simply because the overton window has shifted further and further right to the point where we're thinking 'well, banning abortions after X number of days isn't so bad'. And we're losing younger voters, simply because there is little education and no frame of reference. We're losing doctors, because there's nobody teaching them.
Anyone who thinks that there isn't a fight to be fought over abortion anywhere - within progressive groups, within the states, within the democratic party, is going to lose the fight, because there sure as hell is one.
posted by dinty_moore at 8:51 AM on May 3, 2017 [36 favorites]
Planned Parenthood effectively lost funding last month in republican controlled legislatures, and nobody even cares. The reason why the Omaha mayor thing was huge was because the left wing of the democratic party was supporting him. These are people who a decade ago were adamantly against partial birth abortions. The blue dogs weren't so anti-abortion as you remember them, I think, simply because the overton window has shifted further and further right to the point where we're thinking 'well, banning abortions after X number of days isn't so bad'. And we're losing younger voters, simply because there is little education and no frame of reference. We're losing doctors, because there's nobody teaching them.
Anyone who thinks that there isn't a fight to be fought over abortion anywhere - within progressive groups, within the states, within the democratic party, is going to lose the fight, because there sure as hell is one.
posted by dinty_moore at 8:51 AM on May 3, 2017 [36 favorites]
"Doea the FBI have access to Trump's tax returns?" I mean, just putting that out there! I have such a huge political crush on Al Franken.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:52 AM on May 3, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 8:52 AM on May 3, 2017 [27 favorites]
Comey says "yes" to the question if it's fair to say that the Russians are still involved in American politics.
This is being treated as a big deal on Twitter, but I don't see it. He could just mean that they are still running propaganda campaigns.
posted by diogenes at 8:53 AM on May 3, 2017
This is being treated as a big deal on Twitter, but I don't see it. He could just mean that they are still running propaganda campaigns.
posted by diogenes at 8:53 AM on May 3, 2017
Abortion no longer divides Democrats as forcefully as it did ten years ago, when abortions were still performed in the middle of the country. Now that the doctor-killers have won there, we should concede their point,
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 8:56 AM on May 3, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 8:56 AM on May 3, 2017 [9 favorites]
Comey is the perfect example for why Democrats should not be "working with" Republicans, and why a Dem president sure as shit shouldn't be nominating Republicans for important positions, for Christ's sake! Easily Obama's biggest domestic mistake.
I will never understand why Obama didn't fire him. Unless, it just occurred to me, Obama figured the Republicans would never confirm anyone but an utter tool -- more so than Comey, that is -- as FBI director. Still, disappointing.
posted by Gelatin at 8:56 AM on May 3, 2017
I will never understand why Obama didn't fire him. Unless, it just occurred to me, Obama figured the Republicans would never confirm anyone but an utter tool -- more so than Comey, that is -- as FBI director. Still, disappointing.
posted by Gelatin at 8:56 AM on May 3, 2017
There's no other explaination other than partisanship that is remotely credible.
The only other remotely credible explanation I've seen is that Comey took his course of action on the Weiner e-mails to head off any leaks from the wildly anti-Clinton NYC office of the FBI. That's incredibly generous, but not beyond believability. For instance, in today's hearing, Sen. Leahy brought up Rudy Giuliani's claim during the campaign that "numerous F.B.I. agents [...] talk to [him] all the time" about Clinton's e-mails - which would of course have been as against regulations as what Comey did.
Comey comes off less as g-man Ned Stark than a bureaucrat continuing to try to cover his ass after getting in over his head in a political arena. In any case, we wound up with King Joffrey.
posted by Doktor Zed at 8:58 AM on May 3, 2017 [12 favorites]
The only other remotely credible explanation I've seen is that Comey took his course of action on the Weiner e-mails to head off any leaks from the wildly anti-Clinton NYC office of the FBI. That's incredibly generous, but not beyond believability. For instance, in today's hearing, Sen. Leahy brought up Rudy Giuliani's claim during the campaign that "numerous F.B.I. agents [...] talk to [him] all the time" about Clinton's e-mails - which would of course have been as against regulations as what Comey did.
Comey comes off less as g-man Ned Stark than a bureaucrat continuing to try to cover his ass after getting in over his head in a political arena. In any case, we wound up with King Joffrey.
posted by Doktor Zed at 8:58 AM on May 3, 2017 [12 favorites]
I don't understand this urge to try to invent reasons why Comey's motive might have been something other than sabotaging Clinton's campaign.
Comey gained a lot of good will with the Ashcroft business. I'll admit it it is hard to accept that someone who put so much on the line, in such a high profile manner, was just a stopped clock.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:59 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Comey gained a lot of good will with the Ashcroft business. I'll admit it it is hard to accept that someone who put so much on the line, in such a high profile manner, was just a stopped clock.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:59 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Anyways, the election's over, Clinton's not running again, and all this could'a would'a should'a about her campaign is a waste of time. She ran on the most progressive Democratic platform ever and won the popular vote by 3 million. She only lost due to 107,000 or so votes in a couple of states. Most people prefer Democratic policies. There's no reason to abandon the policies that are so popular. A lot of unique factors went into Clinton's loss and there's a lot of unwarranted overreaction and panic.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:59 AM on May 3, 2017 [75 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 8:59 AM on May 3, 2017 [75 favorites]
However, I agree with Kevin Drum that she was still in a position to win in late October despite flaws in her campaign and external challenges and was derailed by Comey's second letter.
It's absolutely telling that when NPR discussed her statement this morning they were all "LOL she can't let it* go just like Trump amirite?" with no consideration at all as to whether she did, in fact, have a point.
*"It," in this case, being cheated out of the Presidency, not losing the popular vote by millions and being widely and accurately perceived as illegitimate, as with Trump.
posted by Gelatin at 9:02 AM on May 3, 2017 [19 favorites]
It's absolutely telling that when NPR discussed her statement this morning they were all "LOL she can't let it* go just like Trump amirite?" with no consideration at all as to whether she did, in fact, have a point.
*"It," in this case, being cheated out of the Presidency, not losing the popular vote by millions and being widely and accurately perceived as illegitimate, as with Trump.
posted by Gelatin at 9:02 AM on May 3, 2017 [19 favorites]
It's not overreaction and the panic is warranted when her loss puts Repubclians in a position to ensure we've seen the last free election in our history. Four years of further gerrymandering, suppression and stolen Supreme Court seats is not an overreaction.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:06 AM on May 3, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:06 AM on May 3, 2017 [24 favorites]
LOL she can't let it go just like Trump amirite?
Someone else already posted this list of 37 factors that worked against her in the election. The vast majority of them weren't her fault and were things she couldn't do anything about. "Tarnished by decades of controversy in public life." I mean, sure, but the controversies were either made up or were due to her husband's actions.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:10 AM on May 3, 2017 [12 favorites]
I think that what Democrats need to do is to redefine what "pro-choice" means
It is always crazy to me that the Republican Party, with its inarticulate signs and poorly-kerned fonts, boxy khakis-with-a-gold-buttoned-navy-blazer, and shitty haircuts, keeps being more successful at branding than the party with all the young hip designers.
They at least claim that they would vote for an anti-abortion Democrat. I don't know what to do about that.
As has been remarked: Assume that they are lying, because their behavior does not indicate this to be true.
posted by aspersioncast at 9:13 AM on May 3, 2017 [12 favorites]
It is always crazy to me that the Republican Party, with its inarticulate signs and poorly-kerned fonts, boxy khakis-with-a-gold-buttoned-navy-blazer, and shitty haircuts, keeps being more successful at branding than the party with all the young hip designers.
They at least claim that they would vote for an anti-abortion Democrat. I don't know what to do about that.
As has been remarked: Assume that they are lying, because their behavior does not indicate this to be true.
posted by aspersioncast at 9:13 AM on May 3, 2017 [12 favorites]
"Tarnished by decades of controversy in public life." I mean, sure, but the controversies were either made up or were due to her husband's actions.
Trump has shown us that being an outsider with no political record to run on is a huge advantage. In 2020 (shudder), he'll have to defend his record and we know his record will suck. If he can't deliver prosperity to the swing states, it should be possible to flip them back.
posted by puddledork at 9:18 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Trump has shown us that being an outsider with no political record to run on is a huge advantage. In 2020 (shudder), he'll have to defend his record and we know his record will suck. If he can't deliver prosperity to the swing states, it should be possible to flip them back.
posted by puddledork at 9:18 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
The only other remotely credible explanation I've seen is that Comey took his course of action on the Weiner e-mails was to head off any leaks from the wildly anti-Clinton NYC office of the FBI.
In that case Comey was acting in his own interest to prevent the exposure of corruption in his own department which would damage his own reputation. Comey participated in a cover-up of corruption. Comey seems to have forgotten that he swore an oath to defend the Constitution, not a loyalty oath to the FBI.
Instead of persecuting Clinton, he should have been spending more time prosecuting and purging his own department of corrupt agents.
posted by JackFlash at 9:20 AM on May 3, 2017 [9 favorites]
In that case Comey was acting in his own interest to prevent the exposure of corruption in his own department which would damage his own reputation. Comey participated in a cover-up of corruption. Comey seems to have forgotten that he swore an oath to defend the Constitution, not a loyalty oath to the FBI.
Instead of persecuting Clinton, he should have been spending more time prosecuting and purging his own department of corrupt agents.
posted by JackFlash at 9:20 AM on May 3, 2017 [9 favorites]
It is always crazy to me that the Republican Party, with its inarticulate signs and poorly-kerned fonts, boxy khakis-with-a-gold-buttoned-navy-blazer, and shitty haircuts, keeps being more successful at branding than the party with all the young hip designers.
Racism and hate is a helluva drug.
posted by JackFlash at 9:23 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
Racism and hate is a helluva drug.
posted by JackFlash at 9:23 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
I am worried that Trump will take credit for the economic recovery started by Obama. Unless he manages to do something massively damaging (not ruling that out), the momentum should make people feel better about things in four years. He will take credit for whatever good is going on, sort of like Reagan ("are you better off now than you were four years ago")
posted by obliquity of the ecliptic at 9:24 AM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by obliquity of the ecliptic at 9:24 AM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
The only other remotely credible explanation I've seen is that Comey took his course of action on the Weiner e-mails was to head off any leaks from the wildly anti-Clinton NYC office of the FBI.
Ok, so best case for Comey is he wasn't a partisan hack, but rather an incompetent fuck who couldn't control his own agency and screwed the country to protect his own ass. Still not a good look today or in the history books.
posted by chris24 at 9:25 AM on May 3, 2017 [14 favorites]
Ok, so best case for Comey is he wasn't a partisan hack, but rather an incompetent fuck who couldn't control his own agency and screwed the country to protect his own ass. Still not a good look today or in the history books.
posted by chris24 at 9:25 AM on May 3, 2017 [14 favorites]
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the only good Republican is an ex-Republican.
Counterpoint: David Brock.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 9:26 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
Counterpoint: David Brock.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 9:26 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
Lots of comments on Twitter right now suggesting that an AHCA vote is coming up tomorrow. They really want to push this thing through before the next recess. Don't underestimate how badly Trump and Ryan want this to pass. The vast majority of Republican House members still support this bill.
Get on the phone. Today. Now. Even if you're repped by a Democrat. Here in Arizona Paul Gosar just switched to a yes vote. I'm repped by a Democrat here in my district. So I called my rep and asked him to call Gosar and make a personal appeal. Of course Gosar is far-right, and he won his last election by 40+ points, and a call from a Democrat likely won't do anything, but it feels like the least I can do. Make noise. Keep the opposition loud and visible. Every voice counts: It is harder for an R to vote yes against a loud chorus of no.
If you're repped by a moderate Republican who is on the fence, you already know what to do. Get on the phone.
posted by compartment at 9:28 AM on May 3, 2017 [21 favorites]
Get on the phone. Today. Now. Even if you're repped by a Democrat. Here in Arizona Paul Gosar just switched to a yes vote. I'm repped by a Democrat here in my district. So I called my rep and asked him to call Gosar and make a personal appeal. Of course Gosar is far-right, and he won his last election by 40+ points, and a call from a Democrat likely won't do anything, but it feels like the least I can do. Make noise. Keep the opposition loud and visible. Every voice counts: It is harder for an R to vote yes against a loud chorus of no.
If you're repped by a moderate Republican who is on the fence, you already know what to do. Get on the phone.
posted by compartment at 9:28 AM on May 3, 2017 [21 favorites]
Anyways, the election's over, Clinton's not running again, and all this could'a would'a should'a about her campaign is a waste of time. She ran on the most progressive Democratic platform ever and won the popular vote by 3 million. She only lost due to 107,000 or so votes in a couple of states. Most people prefer Democratic policies. There's no reason to abandon the policies that are so popular. A lot of unique factors went into Clinton's loss and there's a lot of unwarranted overreaction and panic.
The Republicans have control of 32 state legislatures, 33 governorships, and full control of 27 states in which they either have both of those or can override a Democratic governor's veto at will.
Hillary Clinton, as you said, is not running again, and that's fine. But her great platform and her popular policies mean diddly shit when she's not in the big chair trying to stem the tide of what a Republican House and Republican Senate and Republican-locked-down states are trying to do to the rest of us. Her campaign and her party's strategy narrowly missed winning the White House but they are getting STOMPED regionally and it's not ALL gerrymandering and cheating to blame. Dems were in deep trouble on that level long before the first Breitbart shitbird hatched and started crowing BENGHAZI, BENGHAZI, BENGHAZI into the morning sky.
posted by delfin at 9:29 AM on May 3, 2017 [13 favorites]
The Republicans have control of 32 state legislatures, 33 governorships, and full control of 27 states in which they either have both of those or can override a Democratic governor's veto at will.
Hillary Clinton, as you said, is not running again, and that's fine. But her great platform and her popular policies mean diddly shit when she's not in the big chair trying to stem the tide of what a Republican House and Republican Senate and Republican-locked-down states are trying to do to the rest of us. Her campaign and her party's strategy narrowly missed winning the White House but they are getting STOMPED regionally and it's not ALL gerrymandering and cheating to blame. Dems were in deep trouble on that level long before the first Breitbart shitbird hatched and started crowing BENGHAZI, BENGHAZI, BENGHAZI into the morning sky.
posted by delfin at 9:29 AM on May 3, 2017 [13 favorites]
There's no other explaination other than partisanship that is remotely credible.
I can't find the link now, but someone posted a while back that Comey did it because he was more afraid of Republican retaliation than Democratic retaliation, because nobody is afraid of Democrats.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:31 AM on May 3, 2017 [13 favorites]
I can't find the link now, but someone posted a while back that Comey did it because he was more afraid of Republican retaliation than Democratic retaliation, because nobody is afraid of Democrats.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:31 AM on May 3, 2017 [13 favorites]
Every Republican at this Comey hearing is relitigating Hillary's emails. I'm surprised Benghazi hasn't been mentioned yet.
Did they drink the koolaid and is it that they believe this shit? I'm having trouble understanding what they even gain at this point by rehashing it. To run interference for Trump? Can't think too many of them care--Cruz surely hates his guts. Does it just play well with the constituency?
posted by Room 101 at 9:32 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
Did they drink the koolaid and is it that they believe this shit? I'm having trouble understanding what they even gain at this point by rehashing it. To run interference for Trump? Can't think too many of them care--Cruz surely hates his guts. Does it just play well with the constituency?
posted by Room 101 at 9:32 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
I can't find the link now, but someone posted a while back that Comey did it because he was more afraid of Republican retaliation than Democratic retaliation, because nobody is afraid of Democrats.
I can believe it. If Clinton won and it came out that there was new information found during the election Comey would most likely have been in front of Congressional hearings every day until the end of his term.
posted by Talez at 9:33 AM on May 3, 2017 [10 favorites]
I can believe it. If Clinton won and it came out that there was new information found during the election Comey would most likely have been in front of Congressional hearings every day until the end of his term.
posted by Talez at 9:33 AM on May 3, 2017 [10 favorites]
I can't find the link now, but someone posted a while back that Comey did it because he was more afraid of Republican retaliation than Democratic retaliation, because nobody is afraid of Democrats.
If memory serves me correctly, it was not only that, but that he was afraid of Republican retaliation, but not afraid of Democratic retaliation at all.
More people in the media should be talking about that phenomenon, but it's never going to fit into a "balanced" narrative.
posted by Gelatin at 9:33 AM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
If memory serves me correctly, it was not only that, but that he was afraid of Republican retaliation, but not afraid of Democratic retaliation at all.
More people in the media should be talking about that phenomenon, but it's never going to fit into a "balanced" narrative.
posted by Gelatin at 9:33 AM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
> Hillary Clinton, as you said, is not running again, and that's fine. But her great platform and her popular policies mean diddly shit when she's not in the big chair trying to stem the tide of what a Republican House and Republican Senate and Republican-locked-down states are trying to do to the rest of us.
Yeh, the "but her platform!" line elides both the broader inability of Democrats to win power, and also the reason for that platform; which is to say, its existence as a sop to the sandersite center-left.
Regardless of whether there's any pent-up demand for left electoral politics in America, liberalism as a governing ideology is done. Regardless of whether or not anyone's buying into a socialist frame (or whatever), we know for sure that "we're a capitalist party and we think everything is already great!" appeals to the managerial class and almost no one else — which isn't enough to win elections, especially given that the managerial class is also relatively okay with fascism.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:48 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
Yeh, the "but her platform!" line elides both the broader inability of Democrats to win power, and also the reason for that platform; which is to say, its existence as a sop to the sandersite center-left.
Regardless of whether there's any pent-up demand for left electoral politics in America, liberalism as a governing ideology is done. Regardless of whether or not anyone's buying into a socialist frame (or whatever), we know for sure that "we're a capitalist party and we think everything is already great!" appeals to the managerial class and almost no one else — which isn't enough to win elections, especially given that the managerial class is also relatively okay with fascism.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:48 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
Yes, because if Trump winning and the Republicans having control over both chambers proves anything it's that people are upset about capitalism.
posted by asteria at 9:51 AM on May 3, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by asteria at 9:51 AM on May 3, 2017 [11 favorites]
The Comey Letter Probably Cost Clinton The Election
So why won’t the media admit as much?
Mate Silver utter damning of the media:
The Times thought it was covering President-elect Clinton’s first scandal
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:52 AM on May 3, 2017 [45 favorites]
So why won’t the media admit as much?
Mate Silver utter damning of the media:
The Times thought it was covering President-elect Clinton’s first scandal
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:52 AM on May 3, 2017 [45 favorites]
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the only good Republican is an ex-Republican.
Counterpoint: David Brock.
Not like I like the guy, but would you seriously rather have him still doing his shtick for the Republicans?
posted by phearlez at 9:53 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Counterpoint: David Brock.
Not like I like the guy, but would you seriously rather have him still doing his shtick for the Republicans?
posted by phearlez at 9:53 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Mate Silver utter damning of the media:
The creator of 538's Australian dopplegänger, fivethirtymate
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:59 AM on May 3, 2017 [48 favorites]
The creator of 538's Australian dopplegänger, fivethirtymate
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:59 AM on May 3, 2017 [48 favorites]
Yes, because if Trump winning and the Republicans having control over both chambers proves anything it's that people are upset about capitalism.
Well except that Trump's campaign message was rather critical of open borders, free trade, and Clinton's closeness with Wall St.
posted by Lyme Drop at 9:59 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Well except that Trump's campaign message was rather critical of open borders, free trade, and Clinton's closeness with Wall St.
posted by Lyme Drop at 9:59 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
James Comey is not a good and truel public servant trapped between competing duties. James Comey is on James Comey's side. He wants to be the Old Man, like J. Edgar Hoover. And in fact, he succeeded. Comey is the kingmaker now. He made Trump, and the Russian investigation means he can unmake him at will.
Everything Comey did during the election was to increase his own power. Look at it through that lens, and it all makes sense.
posted by vibrotronica at 10:00 AM on May 3, 2017 [12 favorites]
Everything Comey did during the election was to increase his own power. Look at it through that lens, and it all makes sense.
posted by vibrotronica at 10:00 AM on May 3, 2017 [12 favorites]
There's no other explaination other than partisanship that is remotely credible.
Of course there is! Consider:
The Obama administration knew the possible extent of the links between Russia and the Trump campaign well prior to the election. They knew Russia was interfering. They knew the Trump campaign was being investigated for collusion. Members of the Obama administration urged going public far more forcefully and with more detail. But they were shut down and what we got were what amounted to fairly anodyne one-page statements.
Was that because the Obama administration were partisans who were pushing Republican interests? Obviously not.
I think the motivation was the same in both cases. Obama et al didn't come forward as they should have because they thought Clinton was going to win, it could be cleaned up later, and they didn't want to be accused of a partisan effort to swing the election by the losing side (Trump). Comey et al did come forward and shouldn't have because they thought Clinton was going to win, it could be cleaned up later, and he didn't want the FBI to be accused of a partisan effort to cover up investigations and swing the election by the losing side (Trump).
In both cases they thought they were going with the ass-covering choice, the problems could be dealt with later after Clinton's win, and that Trump was going to lose. They were both wrong. Comey should not have said anything and Obama should have.
posted by Justinian at 10:04 AM on May 3, 2017 [29 favorites]
Of course there is! Consider:
The Obama administration knew the possible extent of the links between Russia and the Trump campaign well prior to the election. They knew Russia was interfering. They knew the Trump campaign was being investigated for collusion. Members of the Obama administration urged going public far more forcefully and with more detail. But they were shut down and what we got were what amounted to fairly anodyne one-page statements.
Was that because the Obama administration were partisans who were pushing Republican interests? Obviously not.
I think the motivation was the same in both cases. Obama et al didn't come forward as they should have because they thought Clinton was going to win, it could be cleaned up later, and they didn't want to be accused of a partisan effort to swing the election by the losing side (Trump). Comey et al did come forward and shouldn't have because they thought Clinton was going to win, it could be cleaned up later, and he didn't want the FBI to be accused of a partisan effort to cover up investigations and swing the election by the losing side (Trump).
In both cases they thought they were going with the ass-covering choice, the problems could be dealt with later after Clinton's win, and that Trump was going to lose. They were both wrong. Comey should not have said anything and Obama should have.
posted by Justinian at 10:04 AM on May 3, 2017 [29 favorites]
Well except that Trump's campaign message was rather critical of open borders...
Because brown people getting in.
free trade ...
Because MURICA FIRST and no brown people taking our jobs.
and Clinton's closeness with Wall St.
Burn the witch.
posted by asteria at 10:06 AM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
Because brown people getting in.
free trade ...
Because MURICA FIRST and no brown people taking our jobs.
and Clinton's closeness with Wall St.
Burn the witch.
posted by asteria at 10:06 AM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
Also remember that Comey has been chasing the Clintons for more than 25 years. He was on the Kenneth Starr Watergate team and had to watch bitterly as Bill Clinton slipped through his fingers. And then again after Bill left office, Comey headed the Marc Rich pardon investigation and Clinton slipped away again.
He finally had the opportunity to get even by exploiting the Hillary email pseudo-scandal. Comey was crazy Ahab in pursuit of his grievance toward the Great White Whale. Like Ahab, he took an entire country of innocent people down with the ship.
posted by JackFlash at 10:07 AM on May 3, 2017 [48 favorites]
He finally had the opportunity to get even by exploiting the Hillary email pseudo-scandal. Comey was crazy Ahab in pursuit of his grievance toward the Great White Whale. Like Ahab, he took an entire country of innocent people down with the ship.
posted by JackFlash at 10:07 AM on May 3, 2017 [48 favorites]
Again, the ass covering explaination fails to fully account for Comey's covering up the Trump-Russia investigation at the exact same time. He confirmed an open investigation into Clinton. He did not into Trump. That's partisanship.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:15 AM on May 3, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:15 AM on May 3, 2017 [15 favorites]
He did not into Trump. That's partisanship.
Or sexism.
posted by Melismata at 10:17 AM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
Or sexism.
posted by Melismata at 10:17 AM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
He didn't have a faction in the FBI about to leak the Trump thing if he didn't inform Congress.
By the way guys, while we're talking about Comey it looks like the House is going to pass AHCA as soon as tomorrow. They're getting "moderates" on board with some bullshit minor increase in funding for the high risk pools in waiver states.
posted by Justinian at 10:17 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
By the way guys, while we're talking about Comey it looks like the House is going to pass AHCA as soon as tomorrow. They're getting "moderates" on board with some bullshit minor increase in funding for the high risk pools in waiver states.
posted by Justinian at 10:17 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
This American Life just had an episode that was pretty enlightening. Two years before Trump, Breibart backed Dave Brat against Eric Cantor in Virginia, and discovered that the issue that got the crowds riled up was amnesty and immigration, which they re-used to a similar effect when they ran Trump.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 10:18 AM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 10:18 AM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
Someone of RepubliCare seems inevitable.I was cake level wrong about the first vote but I think pessimism is still the proper stance.
Eventually their incompetence will end and then they will start enacting their agenda.
posted by sotonohito at 10:21 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Eventually their incompetence will end and then they will start enacting their agenda.
posted by sotonohito at 10:21 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
How must Republican Senators feel knowing that the House is going to send them a steaming pile of shit with no chance of passing that the House knows is a steaming pile of shit with no chance of passing simply so that they can wash their hands of it and point to the Senate and complain about obstructionism when people ask why they didn't repeal Obamacare?
I wouldn't be super happy if I was a Republican senator.
posted by Justinian at 10:24 AM on May 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
I wouldn't be super happy if I was a Republican senator.
posted by Justinian at 10:24 AM on May 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
I wouldn't be super happy if I was a Republican senator.
I also called my R senators today and asked them to make an appeal to R House members in my state not to pass this thing. McCain's office was friendly, Flake's office was friendly but somewhat dismissive.
In retrospect, the language I should have used was, "It's time to move on to tax reform, Senator R needs to signal that now is not the appropriate time for a House vote on AHCA."
posted by compartment at 10:37 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
I also called my R senators today and asked them to make an appeal to R House members in my state not to pass this thing. McCain's office was friendly, Flake's office was friendly but somewhat dismissive.
In retrospect, the language I should have used was, "It's time to move on to tax reform, Senator R needs to signal that now is not the appropriate time for a House vote on AHCA."
posted by compartment at 10:37 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
I also called my R senators today and asked them to make an appeal to R House members in my state not to pass this thing.
One of my senators is Rubio. If he had the time to personally call every D voter who called about issues like anti-AHCA & pro-net neutrality to tell them to fuck off, I suspect he would.
posted by Servo5678 at 10:40 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
One of my senators is Rubio. If he had the time to personally call every D voter who called about issues like anti-AHCA & pro-net neutrality to tell them to fuck off, I suspect he would.
posted by Servo5678 at 10:40 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
One of my senators is Rubio. If he had the time to personally call every D voter who called about issues like anti-AHCA & pro-net neutrality to tell them to fuck off, I suspect he would.
Truth. He constantly sends out these mansplaining emails that are basically "Thanks for contacting me about Issue X. Now, here's why you're wrong. . . "
posted by Kitty Stardust at 10:45 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
Truth. He constantly sends out these mansplaining emails that are basically "Thanks for contacting me about Issue X. Now, here's why you're wrong. . . "
posted by Kitty Stardust at 10:45 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
Jury Convicts Protester Who Laughed at Sessions Hearing
i want to hire clowns to follow jeff sessions everywhere he fucking goes
posted by murphy slaw at 10:46 AM on May 3, 2017 [49 favorites]
i want to hire clowns to follow jeff sessions everywhere he fucking goes
posted by murphy slaw at 10:46 AM on May 3, 2017 [49 favorites]
How must Republican Senators feel knowing that the House is going to send them a steaming pile of shit with no chance of passing that the House knows is a steaming pile of shit with no chance of passing simply so that they can wash their hands of it and point to the Senate and complain about obstructionism when people ask why they didn't repeal Obamacare?
That's probably not the way its going to happen. Nobody is washing their hands of repeal. Sure, the Senate won't pass this particular House bill, but McConnell will now feel free to introduce their own Obamacare repeal bill which they can pass. And then the Senate and House will go to a conference committee to agree on a bill that both can pass.
The crossing of the Rubicon is this week. If the House bill passes, Obamacare will never be the same. Don't be complacent in believing that the Senate is going to save Obamacare. The Republicans are desperate to have something to show for 2018. The pressure is immense and relentless.
posted by JackFlash at 10:47 AM on May 3, 2017 [12 favorites]
That's probably not the way its going to happen. Nobody is washing their hands of repeal. Sure, the Senate won't pass this particular House bill, but McConnell will now feel free to introduce their own Obamacare repeal bill which they can pass. And then the Senate and House will go to a conference committee to agree on a bill that both can pass.
The crossing of the Rubicon is this week. If the House bill passes, Obamacare will never be the same. Don't be complacent in believing that the Senate is going to save Obamacare. The Republicans are desperate to have something to show for 2018. The pressure is immense and relentless.
posted by JackFlash at 10:47 AM on May 3, 2017 [12 favorites]
They can't pass Obamacare repeal with reconciliation. Any substantive changes will be filibustered.
posted by Justinian at 10:48 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 10:48 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
I suppose they could split it into two bills, one of which could pass with reconciliation and one which could not. But I expect they won't do that; it would destroy the market to the point that they'd all lose their seats at which time (assuming a D president) it would all be put back.
posted by Justinian at 10:50 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 10:50 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
i thought that part of the justification for doing healthcare first was to slash enough money out of obamacare programs that they have a fig leaf for massive tax cuts next? the current bill doesn't even look like it will do that and will fuck even more folks than the last one.
it's almost like they have no idea what they're trying to achieve
posted by murphy slaw at 10:52 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
it's almost like they have no idea what they're trying to achieve
posted by murphy slaw at 10:52 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
A good nonpartisan point to stress for those calling House or Senate Republicans today -- the bill (which is ever-changing and does not yet have final legislative language) does not yet have a CBO score. They can not tell us how much it will cost.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:52 AM on May 3, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 10:52 AM on May 3, 2017 [17 favorites]
Mate Silver utter damning of the media:
The Times thought it was covering President-elect Clinton’s first scandal
I made this point on Twitter yesterday, but it is disturbing the extent to which every single reporter on the NYT Politics desk has, to the best of my knowledge, steadfastly refused to engage with Nate Silver's ten-part series analyzing their coverage and the election.
Yesterday, Maggie Haberman and Glenn Thrush were doing their usual routine of attacking Clinton for not somehow self-flagellating herself in exactly the right way in her speech, as if there even existed some set of magic words that she could say that would possibly satisfy these people. She's still expected to enumerate every one of her failings on demand by reporters who refuse to engage in the slightest bit of self-reflection about their own roles in this.
My dream (I'm a weird person, ok?) is a big long panel discussion somewhere with Haberman, Thrush, Nate Silver, Brian Beutler, and Glenn Greenwald, moderated by Margaret Sullivan and Jay Rosen. Because this all needs to get hashed out somewhere, and Twitter is the very worst place for it.
posted by zachlipton at 10:53 AM on May 3, 2017 [29 favorites]
The Times thought it was covering President-elect Clinton’s first scandal
I made this point on Twitter yesterday, but it is disturbing the extent to which every single reporter on the NYT Politics desk has, to the best of my knowledge, steadfastly refused to engage with Nate Silver's ten-part series analyzing their coverage and the election.
Yesterday, Maggie Haberman and Glenn Thrush were doing their usual routine of attacking Clinton for not somehow self-flagellating herself in exactly the right way in her speech, as if there even existed some set of magic words that she could say that would possibly satisfy these people. She's still expected to enumerate every one of her failings on demand by reporters who refuse to engage in the slightest bit of self-reflection about their own roles in this.
My dream (I'm a weird person, ok?) is a big long panel discussion somewhere with Haberman, Thrush, Nate Silver, Brian Beutler, and Glenn Greenwald, moderated by Margaret Sullivan and Jay Rosen. Because this all needs to get hashed out somewhere, and Twitter is the very worst place for it.
posted by zachlipton at 10:53 AM on May 3, 2017 [29 favorites]
One of my senators is Rubio. If he had the time to personally call every D voter who called about issues like anti-AHCA & pro-net neutrality to tell them to fuck off, I suspect he would.
Truth. He constantly sends out these mansplaining emails that are basically "Thanks for contacting me about Issue X. Now, here's why you're wrong. . . "
Burr (NC) is like this and he's been this way since he was a congressman.
posted by winna at 10:57 AM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
Truth. He constantly sends out these mansplaining emails that are basically "Thanks for contacting me about Issue X. Now, here's why you're wrong. . . "
Burr (NC) is like this and he's been this way since he was a congressman.
posted by winna at 10:57 AM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
> A good nonpartisan point to stress for those calling House or Senate Republicans today -- the bill (which is ever-changing and does not yet have final legislative language) does not yet have a CBO score. They can not tell us how much it will cost.
This may or may not be an effective strategy*, but either way, it feels really yucky to have to attack this shitty bill from the "ZOMG TEH DEFICIT" angle. This is awful legislation, but what makes it awful is what's there in the plain language, not lurking in some subparagraph that forces us to spend more on healthcare.
* Perhaps there are one or two so-called moderate Republicans for whom deficit hawkery is a core belief instead of a cudgel used against anything that might demonstrate that the government can help people. Anything's possible, I suppose.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:57 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
This may or may not be an effective strategy*, but either way, it feels really yucky to have to attack this shitty bill from the "ZOMG TEH DEFICIT" angle. This is awful legislation, but what makes it awful is what's there in the plain language, not lurking in some subparagraph that forces us to spend more on healthcare.
* Perhaps there are one or two so-called moderate Republicans for whom deficit hawkery is a core belief instead of a cudgel used against anything that might demonstrate that the government can help people. Anything's possible, I suppose.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:57 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
One interesting feature is that, even if they pass this thing tomorrow, a CBO score should drop eventually. Which puts every single rep who voted for it on the record as voting for something that will take away insurance for N millions of people. (I swear I did not steal this from Greg Sargent, whose tweet to much the same effect I just read after posting this.)
Anyway, the rumor now is that the vote could be as soon as tonight. Call. Tell your friends to call.
Spicey time.
posted by zachlipton at 10:59 AM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
Anyway, the rumor now is that the vote could be as soon as tonight. Call. Tell your friends to call.
Spicey time.
posted by zachlipton at 10:59 AM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
You know what they call people who get shitty legislation defeated by using the past disengenuous stupid-issue claims of Republicans against them?
The winners.
posted by phearlez at 10:59 AM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
The winners.
posted by phearlez at 10:59 AM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
i don't think that demanding a CBO score is so much a deficit hawk demand as a demand for transparency from the house.
they're trying to push mystery meat through the chamber on an arbitrarily accelerated schedule and we need to let them know that we see what they're doing
posted by murphy slaw at 10:59 AM on May 3, 2017 [16 favorites]
they're trying to push mystery meat through the chamber on an arbitrarily accelerated schedule and we need to let them know that we see what they're doing
posted by murphy slaw at 10:59 AM on May 3, 2017 [16 favorites]
Trump today, on Israel/Palestine: "It's something, frankly, maybe not as difficult as people have thought over the years, but we need two willing parties."
Sheesh, all of these things that are easier than anyone thinks. But harder than Trump thought it would be.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:00 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
Sheesh, all of these things that are easier than anyone thinks. But harder than Trump thought it would be.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:00 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
My dream (I'm a weird person, ok?) is a big long panel discussion somewhere with Haberman, Thrush, Nate Silver, Brian Beutler, and Glenn Greenwald, moderated by Margaret Sullivan and Jay Rosen.
My dream is now a big long panel discussion somewhere with Haberman, Thrush, Nate Silver, Brian Beutler, and Glenn Greenwald, and many, many more, moderated by Margaret Sullivan and Jay Rosen, and they bring on James Comey, who can never stop throwing up, and like the story Gordie Lachance tells in "The Body" / Stand By Me, all of them start throwing up, too, and can never stop.
posted by Gelatin at 11:00 AM on May 3, 2017 [11 favorites]
My dream is now a big long panel discussion somewhere with Haberman, Thrush, Nate Silver, Brian Beutler, and Glenn Greenwald, and many, many more, moderated by Margaret Sullivan and Jay Rosen, and they bring on James Comey, who can never stop throwing up, and like the story Gordie Lachance tells in "The Body" / Stand By Me, all of them start throwing up, too, and can never stop.
posted by Gelatin at 11:00 AM on May 3, 2017 [11 favorites]
It's something, frankly, maybe not as difficult as people have thought over the years,
oh yeah? i am intrigued, tell me more
but we need two willing parties.
THAT'S THE HARD PART YOU INSUFFERABLE TWAT
posted by murphy slaw at 11:01 AM on May 3, 2017 [31 favorites]
oh yeah? i am intrigued, tell me more
but we need two willing parties.
THAT'S THE HARD PART YOU INSUFFERABLE TWAT
posted by murphy slaw at 11:01 AM on May 3, 2017 [31 favorites]
Trump today, on Israel/Palestine: "It's something, frankly, maybe not as difficult as people have thought over the years, but we need two willing parties."
Trump's past record suggests he is not all that clear on the whole "two willing parties" thing.
posted by Gelatin at 11:03 AM on May 3, 2017 [23 favorites]
Trump's past record suggests he is not all that clear on the whole "two willing parties" thing.
posted by Gelatin at 11:03 AM on May 3, 2017 [23 favorites]
For people who are calling Republicans, the hard right talking point against this bill is apparently that it is "ObamaCare Lite".
posted by corb at 11:04 AM on May 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by corb at 11:04 AM on May 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
yes, please remind your republican representatives that the bill may still accidentally help someone in its current form
posted by murphy slaw at 11:06 AM on May 3, 2017 [42 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 11:06 AM on May 3, 2017 [42 favorites]
"Democratic pro-choice, pro-contraception policies actually reduce the rate of abortions. Women who do choose to have children will be able to do so safely because they have prenatal care. Democratic policies mean fewer abortions and healthier babies."It's not about decreasing the number of abortions. And it's not about punishing women either, not entirely, although that's a necessay element. It's about getting to be a moral champion in the fight against evil:
They don't believe this. There's nothing I can do to make them believe this. I have tried to make them believe this, and it doesn't work. It's frustrating that people think that reason will solve this battle, because those of us who have been fighting it are sure as fuck trying reason, and it isn't working.
Here was the new thing that revived and reformed and reinvented our faith. Here was the formula that erased all our past moral failings, and our ongoing moral failings, and any need to atone or account for them. Here was the “value” that would transform our understanding of our religion and of ourselves, rewriting history so that we could, at last, be on the “right side” of it. Here was the thrilling new reality that had, at last, brought about Morning in America:This is from a post by Fred Clark 'If X is not wrong, than nothing is wrong'. See also his post on the anti-kitten-burning coalition. See his entire archive, really.
“If abortion is not wrong, then nothing is wrong.”
I don’t think it’s possible to overstate what this newly discovered formula meant for us as white evangelicals. It allowed us to shrug off more than a century of disgrace, reclaiming the moral high ground — the zenith of morality — and enthroning ourselves as the indisputable guardians of the greatest moral good.
posted by galaxy rise at 11:08 AM on May 3, 2017 [29 favorites]
My dream (I'm a weird person, ok?) is a big long panel discussion somewhere with Haberman, Thrush, Nate Silver, Brian Beutler, and Glenn Greenwald
The Glenn Thrush and Maggie Haberman stuff on twitter was pretty infuriating, but part of your dream is available as a podcast with Brian Beutler and Glenn Greenwald and it's actually a really good nuanced discussion of the media's handling of the whole thing. I find myself frustrated by Greenwald a lot, but end up eventually agreeing with him most of the time.
posted by TwoWordReview at 11:09 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
The Glenn Thrush and Maggie Haberman stuff on twitter was pretty infuriating, but part of your dream is available as a podcast with Brian Beutler and Glenn Greenwald and it's actually a really good nuanced discussion of the media's handling of the whole thing. I find myself frustrated by Greenwald a lot, but end up eventually agreeing with him most of the time.
posted by TwoWordReview at 11:09 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
The Washington Post has an interesting book review of David J. Garrow's Rising Star: The Baking of Barrack Obama. I'm unlikely to read the book, but the review gives an interesting perspective on what seems like a harsh, but not unreasonable, reading of Obama's pre-Presidency life. But the kicker is amazing. Garrow dug up an unpublished manuscript Obama co-wrote on public policy while at Harvard:
but part of your dream is available as a podcast with Brian Beutler and Glenn Greenwald
Heh. My dream is informed by the fact that I listened to the first few minutes of said podcast last night, and had been holding off on recommending it here until I get through it :) It's a really good discussion.
posted by zachlipton at 11:12 AM on May 3, 2017 [9 favorites]
Obama had considered Donald Trump long before either man won the presidency, and brushed off his existence as a misguided national fantasy. Americans have a “continuing normative commitment to the ideals of individual freedom and mobility,” Obama wrote in the old Harvard book manuscript, now more than 25 years old. “The depth of this commitment may be summarily dismissed as the unfounded optimism of the average American — I may not be Donald Trump now, but just you wait; if I don’t make it, my children will.”This universe has a crazy sense of humor.
but part of your dream is available as a podcast with Brian Beutler and Glenn Greenwald
Heh. My dream is informed by the fact that I listened to the first few minutes of said podcast last night, and had been holding off on recommending it here until I get through it :) It's a really good discussion.
posted by zachlipton at 11:12 AM on May 3, 2017 [9 favorites]
IMO we'll know that the Republicans believe they are about to have the votes on AHCA when and only when Jason Chaffetz is seen loitering around the chamber.
But the Medicaid cuts and the pre-existing condition stuff won't get through the Senate. So I just don't see any way a bill which could satisfy both Chambers emerges from this. Maybe they'll go with what I thought was the best plan in the first place: Slap some cosmetic changes on Obamacare, maybe having to do with Planned Parenthood or something, declare victory and go home.
posted by Justinian at 11:16 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
But the Medicaid cuts and the pre-existing condition stuff won't get through the Senate. So I just don't see any way a bill which could satisfy both Chambers emerges from this. Maybe they'll go with what I thought was the best plan in the first place: Slap some cosmetic changes on Obamacare, maybe having to do with Planned Parenthood or something, declare victory and go home.
posted by Justinian at 11:16 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trump today, on Israel/Palestine: "It's something, frankly, maybe not as difficult as people have thought over the years"
It was only a matter of time before he said this. And it's only a matter of time before he informs us that it's actually more complicated than you would think.
posted by diogenes at 11:24 AM on May 3, 2017 [19 favorites]
It was only a matter of time before he said this. And it's only a matter of time before he informs us that it's actually more complicated than you would think.
posted by diogenes at 11:24 AM on May 3, 2017 [19 favorites]
Comey: "It makes me mildly nauseous to think that we might have had some sort of impact on the election."
Mildly?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:26 AM on May 3, 2017 [17 favorites]
Mildly?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:26 AM on May 3, 2017 [17 favorites]
Regarding the possibly upcoming anti-LGBT EO...
Mefites, can I get a sort of sanity check on what the actual impact is of this? I have many friends who are all up in arms - and for sure, as a gay man I'm pretty pissed - but I feel like I've read things to the effect that these exec orders he keeps signing are largely symbolic BS.
It will get signed knowing it may be struck down by a federal judge as unconstitutional, but in the meantime it gives a weapon to those in Republican-locked regions who want to actively hurt minorities to actively hurt minorities. And once it's struck down, it will have shifted the norms further toward state bigotry.
If you're in a "blue"/liberal/white majority region, you probably won't see anything, but things like this are potentially devastating for people in more isolated and frayed regions. So, it is "symbolic BS" but with a human cost and further erosion of social norms toward overt fascism.
posted by byanyothername at 11:27 AM on May 3, 2017 [26 favorites]
Mefites, can I get a sort of sanity check on what the actual impact is of this? I have many friends who are all up in arms - and for sure, as a gay man I'm pretty pissed - but I feel like I've read things to the effect that these exec orders he keeps signing are largely symbolic BS.
It will get signed knowing it may be struck down by a federal judge as unconstitutional, but in the meantime it gives a weapon to those in Republican-locked regions who want to actively hurt minorities to actively hurt minorities. And once it's struck down, it will have shifted the norms further toward state bigotry.
If you're in a "blue"/liberal/white majority region, you probably won't see anything, but things like this are potentially devastating for people in more isolated and frayed regions. So, it is "symbolic BS" but with a human cost and further erosion of social norms toward overt fascism.
posted by byanyothername at 11:27 AM on May 3, 2017 [26 favorites]
If you're in a "blue"/liberal/white majority region, you probably won't see anything, but things like this are potentially devastating for people in more isolated and frayed regions. So, it is "symbolic BS" but with a human cost and further erosion of social norms toward overt fascism.
Even with the passing of the 13th and 14th amendments the white male society engaged in a century long conspiracy that used social norms to exclude everyone who wasn't straight, white, and male from any sort of equity in society at large. Since the large scale attempts to dismantle this conspiracy the goal of those who benefited most from it has been to restore it and they will never stop. This will be a fight that will continue for hundreds if not thousands of years.
posted by Talez at 11:33 AM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
Even with the passing of the 13th and 14th amendments the white male society engaged in a century long conspiracy that used social norms to exclude everyone who wasn't straight, white, and male from any sort of equity in society at large. Since the large scale attempts to dismantle this conspiracy the goal of those who benefited most from it has been to restore it and they will never stop. This will be a fight that will continue for hundreds if not thousands of years.
posted by Talez at 11:33 AM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
Woah. Lawmakers plot to oust Tuesday Group leader over health bill
posted by zachlipton at 11:34 AM on May 3, 2017 [25 favorites]
Some members of the Tuesday Group of House Republican moderates are plotting to oust Co-Chairman Tom MacArthur (R-N.J.) from his post amid frustration that he negotiated a deal on the ObamaCare replacement bill with the conservative Freedom Caucus, two Tuesday Group members told The Hill on Wednesday.*popcorn*
The matter could come up at a Tuesday group meeting Wednesday afternoon, sources said.
posted by zachlipton at 11:34 AM on May 3, 2017 [25 favorites]
Sean Spicer, it's May, dude. The German PM's name is not pronounced with a soft g.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:37 AM on May 3, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:37 AM on May 3, 2017 [10 favorites]
Sean Spicer, it's May, dude. The German PM's name is not pronounced with a soft g.
I bet he pronounces gif as "jiff" as well because fuck political correctness.
posted by Talez at 11:40 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
I bet he pronounces gif as "jiff" as well because fuck political correctness.
posted by Talez at 11:40 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
I bet he pronounces gif as "jiff" as well because fuck political correctness.
I figure he pronounces it as "computer picture".
posted by Etrigan at 11:41 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
I figure he pronounces it as "computer picture".
posted by Etrigan at 11:41 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
And of course he says "nuke-you-ler".
posted by mefireader at 11:43 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by mefireader at 11:43 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Spicer explained that it's just impossible to know the effects or costs of the bill, and has no real answer when asked why, if it's so impossible to know, they think $8 billion more is the right number. It's too bad there's no non-partisan office in Congress that evaluates the impact of bills on the budget.
He also refuses to promise that people with pre-existing conditions won't pay more, because he knows he can't.
posted by zachlipton at 11:49 AM on May 3, 2017 [28 favorites]
He also refuses to promise that people with pre-existing conditions won't pay more, because he knows he can't.
posted by zachlipton at 11:49 AM on May 3, 2017 [28 favorites]
OMFG we're back on pictures of border fencing.
This is 100% American Treasure Melissa McCarthy and her prop box.
posted by dis_integration at 11:58 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
This is 100% American Treasure Melissa McCarthy and her prop box.
posted by dis_integration at 11:58 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
The matter could come up at a Tuesday group meeting Wednesday afternoon, sources said.
Lol. Just need the man who was Thursday to show up.
posted by drezdn at 11:58 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Lol. Just need the man who was Thursday to show up.
posted by drezdn at 11:58 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
He made a whole slide show and was just holding it in reserve until someone asked him about the border.
posted by zachlipton at 11:58 AM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:58 AM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
Spicer is really pissed off that people don't want to hear about the wall.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:59 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:59 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
Well I followed the thread's advice and called my congressman. Pete Sessions, proud sponsor of the World's Greatest Healthcare Plan. I have no hope that my calling did any good.
posted by orrnyereg at 12:02 PM on May 3, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by orrnyereg at 12:02 PM on May 3, 2017 [14 favorites]
This will be a fight that will continue for hundreds if not thousands of years.
Yeah, agreed, and not optimistic about the eventual outcome or overall historical shape of things once they're "done." The story of the US so far is that of an empire built on slavery and genocide denying both its past and future in an insane hope of prolonging its peak forever.
That's why it's important for everyone in a bubble of relative sanity (due to whatever facet of privilege and good luck) to be able to look out and see attacks on civil rights as they're happening, not as they might hypothetically affect them, because by then it's too late.
posted by byanyothername at 12:08 PM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yeah, agreed, and not optimistic about the eventual outcome or overall historical shape of things once they're "done." The story of the US so far is that of an empire built on slavery and genocide denying both its past and future in an insane hope of prolonging its peak forever.
That's why it's important for everyone in a bubble of relative sanity (due to whatever facet of privilege and good luck) to be able to look out and see attacks on civil rights as they're happening, not as they might hypothetically affect them, because by then it's too late.
posted by byanyothername at 12:08 PM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
drezdn: "Just need the man who was Thursday to show up."
HOT TAKE: I think I liked The Napoleon of Notting Hill better.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:11 PM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
HOT TAKE: I think I liked The Napoleon of Notting Hill better.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:11 PM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
The matter could come up at a Tuesday group meeting Wednesday afternoon, sources said.
Lol. Just need the man who was Thursday to show up.
And his gal Friday.
posted by Servo5678 at 12:13 PM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
Lol. Just need the man who was Thursday to show up.
And his gal Friday.
posted by Servo5678 at 12:13 PM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
The matter could come up at a Tuesday group meeting Wednesday afternoon, sources said.
Lol. Just need the man who was Thursday to show up.
And his gal Friday.
I'm in love.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:14 PM on May 3, 2017 [11 favorites]
Lol. Just need the man who was Thursday to show up.
And his gal Friday.
I'm in love.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:14 PM on May 3, 2017 [11 favorites]
Chokwe Antar Lumumba Wins Democratic Primary for Mayor of Jackson, MS in Victory for Progressive Movement
The conventional experts and pundits considered Chokwe Antar Lumumba to be the favorite, but repeatedly assumed there would have to be a run-off election between Chokwe Antar Lumumba and one of the other candidates, probably state legislator John Horhn. The latest pre-election polls showed Chokwe Antar Lumumba with around 30% of the vote; Horhn with around 20%; and the rest of the candidates trailing. [...]posted by melissasaurus at 12:15 PM on May 3, 2017 [42 favorites]
Unofficial returns, with 100% of the precincts reporting, showed Chokwe Antar Lumumba with 55% of the vote. His closest challenger, John Hohrn, attracted only 21% of the vote. The incumbent Mayor, Tony Yarber, received only 5% of the vote. Since Chokwe Antar received over 50% of the vote, there will be no run-off. John Hohrn has conceded. It is anticipated that Chokwe Antar Lumumba will coast into the Mayor’s seat at the general election on June 6, and be inaugurated several weeks after that.
Today in my car, I was listening to the radio, and realized that the journalists and commentators had abandoned even the slightest pretense of competence. They had headlines suggesting some dramas about the French election, issues in Scotland and the healthcare debate in the US, and in every case, there was very obviously a real news story to be told or commented upon. But they just didn't. The host would lead with some angle which would then immediately be rendered meaningless by the actual quotes from the sources they played, and then the journalist or commentator would scramble to make it all fit against the facts. It was like absurd drama.
I've really thought about this. And then I realized that these weird new sources of actual information and commentary, Teen Vogue and Buzzfeed are media that are dealing successfully with the new media economics. You might to some extent add Huffpo to that group, though they are clearly branded as liberal, and thus not reaching the Fox viewers. It's been ages since you could trust public media, because they are continuously being threatened with defunding. The old greats, such as the NYT have been struggling with the adaption to web and are only very recently finding their feet, and specially the Times haven't really figured out how to be trustworthy again after the huge failures of the last couple of decades. And then of course we have the bubble media on both sides where there is a spectrum of trustworthiness — you may actually sometimes get honest reporting from WSJ, while obviously Breitbart is a cesspool.
This is not thought through, but more like the intuitive beginning of a study before the data are collected. But I feel that before anything can be changed, the autonomy of the media has to be recreated on new terms. We can't have democracy anywhere without free and trustworthy media.
posted by mumimor at 12:28 PM on May 3, 2017 [14 favorites]
I've really thought about this. And then I realized that these weird new sources of actual information and commentary, Teen Vogue and Buzzfeed are media that are dealing successfully with the new media economics. You might to some extent add Huffpo to that group, though they are clearly branded as liberal, and thus not reaching the Fox viewers. It's been ages since you could trust public media, because they are continuously being threatened with defunding. The old greats, such as the NYT have been struggling with the adaption to web and are only very recently finding their feet, and specially the Times haven't really figured out how to be trustworthy again after the huge failures of the last couple of decades. And then of course we have the bubble media on both sides where there is a spectrum of trustworthiness — you may actually sometimes get honest reporting from WSJ, while obviously Breitbart is a cesspool.
This is not thought through, but more like the intuitive beginning of a study before the data are collected. But I feel that before anything can be changed, the autonomy of the media has to be recreated on new terms. We can't have democracy anywhere without free and trustworthy media.
posted by mumimor at 12:28 PM on May 3, 2017 [14 favorites]
Kristine Phillips, WaPo: Colbert had a lot to say about Trump and Putin. Now he’s silent amid #FireColbert backlash.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:31 PM on May 3, 2017 [17 favorites]
President Trump has, for months, been the target of Stephen Colbert’s pointed jokes and mockery.The joke that's giving Trumpists the vapors: “In fact, the only thing your mouth is good for is being Vladimir Putin’s c— holster.”
But many on social media believe the “Late Show” host went too far Monday night in making an oral-sex joke regarding Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:31 PM on May 3, 2017 [17 favorites]
The joke that's giving Trumpists the vapors: “In fact, the only thing your mouth is good for is being Vladimir Putin’s c— holster.”
A late night talk show host getting in trouble for a blowjob joke? Back in my day, the entire late night talk show industry was propped up on blowjob jokes. What would Leno and Letterman and their writers have done for most of the 90's without the Lewinsky scandal? I mean, there's only so many times you could watch and enjoy the Dancing Itos before you realize you're being sort of racist.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:36 PM on May 3, 2017 [20 favorites]
A late night talk show host getting in trouble for a blowjob joke? Back in my day, the entire late night talk show industry was propped up on blowjob jokes. What would Leno and Letterman and their writers have done for most of the 90's without the Lewinsky scandal? I mean, there's only so many times you could watch and enjoy the Dancing Itos before you realize you're being sort of racist.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:36 PM on May 3, 2017 [20 favorites]
Well I followed the thread's advice and called my congressman. Pete Sessions, proud sponsor of the World's Greatest Healthcare Plan. I have no hope that my calling did any good.
Thank you for calling! At the very least, it stops Sessions from mistaking silence for approval.
Opposition, even in far-right districts, is powerful. Consider how freaked out Jason Chaffetz was by the post-election surge in opposition. He won his seat in southern Utah by just shy of a 50-point margin. But the 2018 Democratic challenger for his district has already pulled in over half a million in donations compared to Chaffetz's $170k. Chaffetz pulled his bill to sell off public lands. He found himself looking at a potential primary challenge in 2018. And then he was like, "This sucks, I'm not running again. Also, I may quit early. Also, I need emergency surgery. Goodbye."
And while we're on the subject...
IMO we'll know that the Republicans believe they are about to have the votes on AHCA when and only when Jason Chaffetz is seen loitering around the chamber.
If you haven't called yet and were looking for motivation to do so, Chaffetz is back early. House Republicans want AHCA to pass, and Chaffetz is in DC to cast his vote.
posted by compartment at 12:36 PM on May 3, 2017 [11 favorites]
Thank you for calling! At the very least, it stops Sessions from mistaking silence for approval.
Opposition, even in far-right districts, is powerful. Consider how freaked out Jason Chaffetz was by the post-election surge in opposition. He won his seat in southern Utah by just shy of a 50-point margin. But the 2018 Democratic challenger for his district has already pulled in over half a million in donations compared to Chaffetz's $170k. Chaffetz pulled his bill to sell off public lands. He found himself looking at a potential primary challenge in 2018. And then he was like, "This sucks, I'm not running again. Also, I may quit early. Also, I need emergency surgery. Goodbye."
And while we're on the subject...
IMO we'll know that the Republicans believe they are about to have the votes on AHCA when and only when Jason Chaffetz is seen loitering around the chamber.
If you haven't called yet and were looking for motivation to do so, Chaffetz is back early. House Republicans want AHCA to pass, and Chaffetz is in DC to cast his vote.
posted by compartment at 12:36 PM on May 3, 2017 [11 favorites]
Sen. Bob Casey is livetweeting his efforts to get Trump to reverse the removal of a Honduran 5-year-old and his mother seeking refugee status after DHS rushed them out of the country while they were seeking protected status.
posted by zachlipton at 12:38 PM on May 3, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:38 PM on May 3, 2017 [17 favorites]
The old greats, such as the NYT have been struggling with the adaption to web and are only very recently finding their feet, and specially the Times haven't really figured out how to be trustworthy again after the huge failures of the last couple of decades.
...
But I feel that before anything can be changed, the autonomy of the media has to be recreated on new terms. We can't have democracy anywhere without free and trustworthy media.
This is all predicated on the idea that we ever had this free and trustworthy media. I don't think that's a belief that stands up to deep scrutiny. The beginning of the United States hinged on false reporting. News ran stories about the threat of those Native Americans who had the nerve to be on our land before we got here. Newspapers fought tooth and nail against women's suffrage.
Don't get the impression that I am slandering all media, but the rosy look back at this supposed golden age of perfect reporting is as misguided as the look back on the supposedly perfect America of the 1950s. It never existed for everyone. The upending of advertiser supported news gathering is causing major upheaval, absolutely, but the system was plenty flawed to begin with. If we don't acknowledge that then we're not going to build a new system with better trust.
posted by phearlez at 12:43 PM on May 3, 2017 [20 favorites]
...
But I feel that before anything can be changed, the autonomy of the media has to be recreated on new terms. We can't have democracy anywhere without free and trustworthy media.
This is all predicated on the idea that we ever had this free and trustworthy media. I don't think that's a belief that stands up to deep scrutiny. The beginning of the United States hinged on false reporting. News ran stories about the threat of those Native Americans who had the nerve to be on our land before we got here. Newspapers fought tooth and nail against women's suffrage.
Don't get the impression that I am slandering all media, but the rosy look back at this supposed golden age of perfect reporting is as misguided as the look back on the supposedly perfect America of the 1950s. It never existed for everyone. The upending of advertiser supported news gathering is causing major upheaval, absolutely, but the system was plenty flawed to begin with. If we don't acknowledge that then we're not going to build a new system with better trust.
posted by phearlez at 12:43 PM on May 3, 2017 [20 favorites]
This is all predicated on the idea that we ever had this free and trustworthy media. I don't think that's a belief that stands up to deep scrutiny. The beginning of the United States hinged on false reporting. News ran stories about the threat of those Native Americans who had the nerve to be on our land before we got here. Newspapers fought tooth and nail against women's suffrage.
Oh yes, media have been terrible at different times, and specially with each new level of technology and/or economy. For instance, the Fascists used the then new media of radio and cinema and it took a while for democracies to learn how to deal with that type of propaganda.
posted by mumimor at 12:51 PM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
Oh yes, media have been terrible at different times, and specially with each new level of technology and/or economy. For instance, the Fascists used the then new media of radio and cinema and it took a while for democracies to learn how to deal with that type of propaganda.
posted by mumimor at 12:51 PM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
Every time somebody makes a popcorn joke wrt American politics these days, it makes me think of this.
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:59 PM on May 3, 2017
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:59 PM on May 3, 2017
The House just passed the spending bill, 309-118. That's 103 Republicans who voted against it, lest anyone try to tell you that Democrats are the ones who won't cross the aisle.
posted by zachlipton at 1:25 PM on May 3, 2017 [33 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 1:25 PM on May 3, 2017 [33 favorites]
The most recent Casey tweet said that he had not heard Still no word from Preibus or anyone else in the administration on the family. He was going on MSNBC at 3:35 pm to try and get the president's attention.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:27 PM on May 3, 2017
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:27 PM on May 3, 2017
Gratuitous cruelty to immigrants and minorities is why Republicans were elected, this is their porn.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:31 PM on May 3, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:31 PM on May 3, 2017 [12 favorites]
"It makes me mildly nauseous to think that we might have had some impact on the plane crash, but honestly, it wouldn't change the decision," Walter White said.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:35 PM on May 3, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:35 PM on May 3, 2017 [10 favorites]
and then those voters will hem and haw and come up with some way to discount this that doesn't reveal that their real motivation is punishing women for having sex
Do They Really Believe Abortion Is Murder?
...the leaders of the abortion criminalization movement have consistently put their political weight behind policies which make little or no sense if they genuinely think that abortion is identical to child murder. And those same leaders routinely endorse policies that make a lot of sense if their goal is to punish women who have sex.posted by kirkaracha at 1:40 PM on May 3, 2017 [34 favorites]
To be fair, this is never phrased as “punishing” women by pro-lifers; what I’ve heard again and again from pro-lifers is that women should be made to “take responsibility for their actions” (by “actions,” they mean having sex), or that abortion is wrong because it lets women “avoid the consequences.”
So what motivates pro-lifers: the belief that women should be forced to face consequences for having sex, or the belief that abortion is exactly like child murder? Let's review.
Is it only me or does the Mulvaney conference call sound like a new Negativland track? Because, damn, I wish they were putting out a new album. Especially one with a Trumpian bend to it.
posted by Fezboy! at 1:47 PM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Fezboy! at 1:47 PM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
DOJ is literally prosecuting a woman for laughing at Jeff Sessions
And a jury just convicted her.
Justice Department attorneys claimed during the trial that laughter was enough to merit a criminal charge against Fairooz, asserting that “heads turned around” when Fairooz let out what they characterized as a “scoff,” “outburst” or “burst” of laughter.
The dude who perjured himself in that hearing is now AG of the US. The woman who laughed at the perjurer has been convicted of crimes. In the immortal words of Yakov Smirnoff, what a country.
posted by lord_wolf at 1:47 PM on May 3, 2017 [97 favorites]
And a jury just convicted her.
Justice Department attorneys claimed during the trial that laughter was enough to merit a criminal charge against Fairooz, asserting that “heads turned around” when Fairooz let out what they characterized as a “scoff,” “outburst” or “burst” of laughter.
The dude who perjured himself in that hearing is now AG of the US. The woman who laughed at the perjurer has been convicted of crimes. In the immortal words of Yakov Smirnoff, what a country.
posted by lord_wolf at 1:47 PM on May 3, 2017 [97 favorites]
Again, the ass covering explaination fails to fully account for Comey's covering up the Trump-Russia investigation at the exact same time. He confirmed an open investigation into Clinton. He did not into Trump. That's partisanship.
My belief is that Comey discussed the Clinton investigation because he considered it to not be a serious matter and to not involve criminal behavior, whereas he kept quiet about Trump because he considered it a critically important investigation and didn't want to undermine it. Of course the reason he said anything at all was a desire to cover his ass and placate his Republican interrogators in Congress.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:51 PM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
My belief is that Comey discussed the Clinton investigation because he considered it to not be a serious matter and to not involve criminal behavior, whereas he kept quiet about Trump because he considered it a critically important investigation and didn't want to undermine it. Of course the reason he said anything at all was a desire to cover his ass and placate his Republican interrogators in Congress.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:51 PM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
Echoing the comment above about the media, two more perfect examples of how the mainstream media are blowing it:
Yesterday, on NPR, they did a bit on the French election. Marine Le Pen is trailing by 20+%. But the whole piece was a one-perspective encomium to how energized her campaign was and how she felt "now is the time" for her particular brand of xenophobia. I kept waiting for the qualifying statement, the perspective, the context...even a he-said/she-said would have been welcome. But the whole piece was like a campaign ad for Le Pen.
Today, there's a front-page article on CNN that touts "the best news for Donald Trump" so far. It's a clickbait title, of course, but I bit. The article shows a chart of the economically satisfied/dissatisfied poll results for the past 20 years, and shows that now is the first time since before the Great Recession that the satisfieds outnumbered the dissatisfieds. It pointed out that this is great news for DJT and gives him an opportunity to sell Americans on how good a President he is!
At NO point in the article was the key point made that the ratio had been steadily improving throughout Obama's tenure (from a record negative at the beginning of the Recession), and it's only because of that continued improving trend that we are now at the point that finally a slim majority of people are now satisfied with the economy. The improvement in the economy was just handed to DJT as one for his "plus" column.
This sort of completely obtuse abandonment of journalistic standards is really disgusting. No wonder our country is currently led by a group of alt-right clowns. Our Fourth Estate has become a Fifth Column.
posted by darkstar at 1:51 PM on May 3, 2017 [35 favorites]
Yesterday, on NPR, they did a bit on the French election. Marine Le Pen is trailing by 20+%. But the whole piece was a one-perspective encomium to how energized her campaign was and how she felt "now is the time" for her particular brand of xenophobia. I kept waiting for the qualifying statement, the perspective, the context...even a he-said/she-said would have been welcome. But the whole piece was like a campaign ad for Le Pen.
Today, there's a front-page article on CNN that touts "the best news for Donald Trump" so far. It's a clickbait title, of course, but I bit. The article shows a chart of the economically satisfied/dissatisfied poll results for the past 20 years, and shows that now is the first time since before the Great Recession that the satisfieds outnumbered the dissatisfieds. It pointed out that this is great news for DJT and gives him an opportunity to sell Americans on how good a President he is!
At NO point in the article was the key point made that the ratio had been steadily improving throughout Obama's tenure (from a record negative at the beginning of the Recession), and it's only because of that continued improving trend that we are now at the point that finally a slim majority of people are now satisfied with the economy. The improvement in the economy was just handed to DJT as one for his "plus" column.
This sort of completely obtuse abandonment of journalistic standards is really disgusting. No wonder our country is currently led by a group of alt-right clowns. Our Fourth Estate has become a Fifth Column.
posted by darkstar at 1:51 PM on May 3, 2017 [35 favorites]
Why is abortion such a thing anyway? Fred Clark has a theory:
Civil rights was the defining moral question of American life in the latter half of the 20th century. And white evangelicals, overwhelmingly, got it wrong. Prominent white evangelical leaders were among the most vocal opponents of the Civil Rights Movement, while millions more were simply indifferent, timid bystanders...
...by the 1980s, white evangelicals found a strategy to redefine themselves by once again asserting their claim to be the possessors of the moral high ground and the arbiters of right and wrong. They gave up on imagining themselves to be better than everyone else and settled on redefining everyone else as worse than them. Those other people may have been morally right about civil rights and racial discrimination, and women’s equality, and poverty, and Vietnam, and pollution, but none of that mattered because those other people were also baby-killers. Satanic baby-killers.
Those people kill babies. That’s gotta be worse than us, right? So that makes us better than them.
posted by emjaybee at 1:53 PM on May 3, 2017 [35 favorites]
Civil rights was the defining moral question of American life in the latter half of the 20th century. And white evangelicals, overwhelmingly, got it wrong. Prominent white evangelical leaders were among the most vocal opponents of the Civil Rights Movement, while millions more were simply indifferent, timid bystanders...
...by the 1980s, white evangelicals found a strategy to redefine themselves by once again asserting their claim to be the possessors of the moral high ground and the arbiters of right and wrong. They gave up on imagining themselves to be better than everyone else and settled on redefining everyone else as worse than them. Those other people may have been morally right about civil rights and racial discrimination, and women’s equality, and poverty, and Vietnam, and pollution, but none of that mattered because those other people were also baby-killers. Satanic baby-killers.
Those people kill babies. That’s gotta be worse than us, right? So that makes us better than them.
posted by emjaybee at 1:53 PM on May 3, 2017 [35 favorites]
DOJ is literally prosecuting a woman for laughing at Jeff Sessions
Er, she was part of an organized protest that was specifically there to disrupt the hearing. The possibility of a year in prison for it seems way overblown and stupid, but it seems to me that this is like when a judge holds someone in contempt of court for disrupting a trial. The way I'm seeing some people describe this it's like they think she just saw him on the street one day, laughed, and got arrested for it.
posted by dnash at 1:54 PM on May 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
Er, she was part of an organized protest that was specifically there to disrupt the hearing. The possibility of a year in prison for it seems way overblown and stupid, but it seems to me that this is like when a judge holds someone in contempt of court for disrupting a trial. The way I'm seeing some people describe this it's like they think she just saw him on the street one day, laughed, and got arrested for it.
posted by dnash at 1:54 PM on May 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
ICE’s Private Detention Centers Keep Data Under Lock and Key: According to data obtained through the Freedom of Information Act by the nonpartisan Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse (TRAC) at Syracuse University, over 341,000 detainees “booked out” of ICE’s privately operated detention centers in fiscal year 2015, meaning hundreds of thousands of detainees were either transferred to other facilities, released from custody, or deported. Book-outs from private detention centers accounted for nearly half of all book-outs that year, according to TRAC.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:59 PM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:59 PM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
NYT: Trump Is Expected to Relax Tax Rules on Churches Taking Part in Politics
How the heck can he do this? The Johnson Amendment is called an Amendment because it's literally the law and can't be overturned by executive order.
How the heck can he do this? The Johnson Amendment is called an Amendment because it's literally the law and can't be overturned by executive order.
But faith leaders who have had discussions with White House officials about the issue said Mr. Trump could direct the Internal Revenue Service not to actively investigate or pursue cases of political activism by members of the clergy.posted by zachlipton at 2:00 PM on May 3, 2017 [13 favorites]
Such a directive might be quickly challenged in court. But in the meantime, pastors could feel freer to actively participate in coming elections without fear of being investigated and having their tax-exempt status revoked by the federal government.
https://faxzero.com/ helpfully has the fax links for all of the US Senators and Representatives at the top of their page.
You can also send up to 5 free faxes a day.
Just sayin'.
posted by spinifex23 at 2:01 PM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
You can also send up to 5 free faxes a day.
Just sayin'.
posted by spinifex23 at 2:01 PM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
The old greats, such as the NYT have been struggling with the adaption to web and are only very recently finding their feet, and specially the Times haven't really figured out how to be trustworthy again after the huge failures of the last couple of decades.
Dear NYT, if you want to regain some trust you could fire all the lying, toadying, right wing choads who infest your op ed and news pages. Just a suggestion.
You're employing professional liars who are lying about some of the most important and pressing matters facing us. As long as they have jobs at your paper then, no, we won't be trusting you.
posted by sotonohito at 2:02 PM on May 3, 2017 [24 favorites]
Dear NYT, if you want to regain some trust you could fire all the lying, toadying, right wing choads who infest your op ed and news pages. Just a suggestion.
You're employing professional liars who are lying about some of the most important and pressing matters facing us. As long as they have jobs at your paper then, no, we won't be trusting you.
posted by sotonohito at 2:02 PM on May 3, 2017 [24 favorites]
I look forward to the court case when a liberal church starts urging people to vote for a particular candidate who is closer to Jesus' views and the IRS tries to step in.
What about the Church of Satan? Mosques? Synagogues? Loosen the rules for one, you loosen them for all.
posted by emjaybee at 2:03 PM on May 3, 2017 [12 favorites]
What about the Church of Satan? Mosques? Synagogues? Loosen the rules for one, you loosen them for all.
posted by emjaybee at 2:03 PM on May 3, 2017 [12 favorites]
The #licensetodiscriminate hashtag is already trending on Twitter, and the religious "liberty" EO isn't even expected until tomorrow. Well done, internet.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:05 PM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:05 PM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
current whip count on AHCA. 16 nos + 8 lean nos is enough to block the bill, with 13 undecideds. But we're seeing people moving from lean no to yes and not much of the reverse today, so it's moving in the wrong direction.
posted by Justinian at 2:07 PM on May 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 2:07 PM on May 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
Er, she was part of an organized protest that was specifically there to disrupt the hearing. The possibility of a year in prison for it seems way overblown and stupid, but it seems to me that this is like when a judge holds someone in contempt of court for disrupting a trial.
What I've read suggests this was very much a discretionary prosecution on the government's part because it's not actually clear that her laugh disrupted the trial.
According to at least one report, the activist was seated and in the back of the room when she laughed, and her laugh didn't even interrupt Shelby’s introductory speech.
Plus the officer who arrested her was a rookie who had never arrested anyone before or worked at a congressional hearing. The government very much could have just let this quietly drop.
Since they didn't, this strikes me very much as a desire to make an example that arose from vindictiveness based on conservative fragility rather than the justified conviction of a disruptive protester.
posted by lord_wolf at 2:11 PM on May 3, 2017 [47 favorites]
What I've read suggests this was very much a discretionary prosecution on the government's part because it's not actually clear that her laugh disrupted the trial.
According to at least one report, the activist was seated and in the back of the room when she laughed, and her laugh didn't even interrupt Shelby’s introductory speech.
Plus the officer who arrested her was a rookie who had never arrested anyone before or worked at a congressional hearing. The government very much could have just let this quietly drop.
Since they didn't, this strikes me very much as a desire to make an example that arose from vindictiveness based on conservative fragility rather than the justified conviction of a disruptive protester.
posted by lord_wolf at 2:11 PM on May 3, 2017 [47 favorites]
> You know what they call people who get shitty legislation defeated by using the past disengenuous stupid-issue claims of Republicans against them?
The winners.
This logic only holds true if I accept as given that the CBO score argument is more effective than the one I'm already using when I call my rep. Given that I can never get through to an actual staffer, and that they're not calling me back when I leave voicemails, my guess is that the effectiveness of both my current approach and the one that leans toward discussing CBO scores is very close to zero, so I'm going with the one that I feel that I actually believe and could make an argument in defense of were a staffer or the rep themselves willing to challenge me on it.
I am not against the tactic of expressing an opinion I don't sincerely hold, but I also recognize that there are costs to that approach, and limits to how effective it can be. If folks believe their rep would be swayed by this CBO argument, then fine, but calling out hypocrisy or recklessness on budgetary matters has never seemed to make much of a difference before, so I'm not sure why it would now.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:11 PM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
The winners.
This logic only holds true if I accept as given that the CBO score argument is more effective than the one I'm already using when I call my rep. Given that I can never get through to an actual staffer, and that they're not calling me back when I leave voicemails, my guess is that the effectiveness of both my current approach and the one that leans toward discussing CBO scores is very close to zero, so I'm going with the one that I feel that I actually believe and could make an argument in defense of were a staffer or the rep themselves willing to challenge me on it.
I am not against the tactic of expressing an opinion I don't sincerely hold, but I also recognize that there are costs to that approach, and limits to how effective it can be. If folks believe their rep would be swayed by this CBO argument, then fine, but calling out hypocrisy or recklessness on budgetary matters has never seemed to make much of a difference before, so I'm not sure why it would now.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:11 PM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
One of the most telling things about Bannon's promise whiteboard is this bit:
Now, Trump didn't actually have a healthcare plan and spoke gibberish every time he was asked about it, something that should have been front page news in and of itself, but there were bits of his babbling that resembled other promises too:
No cuts to Medicaid and Medicare were literally promises in his announcement speech. The AHCA will slash Medicaid massively.
He promised "We’re going to have insurance for everybody," something that doesn't square with CBO estimates of millions losing coverage.
He promised to expand mental health care. The AHCA allows states to opt-out of providing it.
He promised to address opioid abuse. The AHCA allows states to opt-out of providing drug treatment.
He promised to reduce drug prices. Even if that doesn't belong in the AHCA, it's not even up on Bannon's board.
Heck, the only thing about health care he seemed constant on, selling plans across state lines, isn't even on the whiteboard or in the AHCA.
All these promises, and there are just a couple that I've drummed up quickly, have been entirely erased. The only one Bannon is tracking is the entirely political one of repeal and replace; any promise that actually involves people's health or lives or finances is just gone.
posted by zachlipton at 2:15 PM on May 3, 2017 [28 favorites]
Pledges on Obamacare:That's it. He's got dozens of things up there for immigration, but for the country's healthcare system, it's just "repeal and replace."
- Repeal and replace Obamacare
Now, Trump didn't actually have a healthcare plan and spoke gibberish every time he was asked about it, something that should have been front page news in and of itself, but there were bits of his babbling that resembled other promises too:
No cuts to Medicaid and Medicare were literally promises in his announcement speech. The AHCA will slash Medicaid massively.
He promised "We’re going to have insurance for everybody," something that doesn't square with CBO estimates of millions losing coverage.
He promised to expand mental health care. The AHCA allows states to opt-out of providing it.
He promised to address opioid abuse. The AHCA allows states to opt-out of providing drug treatment.
He promised to reduce drug prices. Even if that doesn't belong in the AHCA, it's not even up on Bannon's board.
Heck, the only thing about health care he seemed constant on, selling plans across state lines, isn't even on the whiteboard or in the AHCA.
All these promises, and there are just a couple that I've drummed up quickly, have been entirely erased. The only one Bannon is tracking is the entirely political one of repeal and replace; any promise that actually involves people's health or lives or finances is just gone.
posted by zachlipton at 2:15 PM on May 3, 2017 [28 favorites]
Resistbot is running a little slower than usual today. This pleases me.
posted by rouftop at 2:19 PM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by rouftop at 2:19 PM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
But faith leaders who have had discussions with White House officials about the issue said Mr. Trump could direct the Internal Revenue Service not to actively investigate or pursue cases of political activism by members of the clergy.
In order to maintain their tax-exempt status, the preachers will still have to sign forms asking whether their organization was politically active. If they say "Yes", presumably they will still lose their tax-exempt status. If they say "No", I would imagine a future president would be able to direct the IRS to prioritize all the cases Trump's IRS overlooked, and retroactively revoke their tax-exempt status and charge them the back taxes they owe. They might even be able to prosecute them for lying on the form.
Maybe this is all just theater?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:20 PM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
In order to maintain their tax-exempt status, the preachers will still have to sign forms asking whether their organization was politically active. If they say "Yes", presumably they will still lose their tax-exempt status. If they say "No", I would imagine a future president would be able to direct the IRS to prioritize all the cases Trump's IRS overlooked, and retroactively revoke their tax-exempt status and charge them the back taxes they owe. They might even be able to prosecute them for lying on the form.
Maybe this is all just theater?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:20 PM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 No future president will ever, in a million years, dream of trying go enforce IRS rules on Christian churches. That's political career ending stuff right there.
posted by sotonohito at 2:26 PM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by sotonohito at 2:26 PM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
Sheesh, all of these things that are easier than anyone thinks. But harder than Trump thought it would be.
More proof that Trump isn't just anyone.
posted by scalefree at 2:34 PM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
More proof that Trump isn't just anyone.
posted by scalefree at 2:34 PM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
>More people in the media should be talking about that phenomenon, but it's never going to fit into a "balanced" narrative.
Hillary Clinton would probably be president if FBI Director James Comey had not sent a letter to Congress on Oct. 28. The letter, which said the FBI had “learned of the existence of emails that appear to be pertinent to the investigation” into the private email server that Clinton used as secretary of state, upended the news cycle and soon halved Clinton’s lead in the polls, imperiling her position in the Electoral College.
What is it when your cheek muscle involuntarily clenches at random intervals?
also i suspect i am growling
posted by petebest at 2:36 PM on May 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
Hillary Clinton would probably be president if FBI Director James Comey had not sent a letter to Congress on Oct. 28. The letter, which said the FBI had “learned of the existence of emails that appear to be pertinent to the investigation” into the private email server that Clinton used as secretary of state, upended the news cycle and soon halved Clinton’s lead in the polls, imperiling her position in the Electoral College.
What is it when your cheek muscle involuntarily clenches at random intervals?
also i suspect i am growling
posted by petebest at 2:36 PM on May 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
Seeing lots of Tweets that they are still 5 votes short on the AHCA but are "breaking kneecaps and twisting arms" to get them so if you haven't called, now is a good time.
posted by emjaybee at 2:37 PM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 2:37 PM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
No future president will ever, in a million years, dream of trying go enforce IRS rules on Christian churches. That's political career ending stuff right there.
Since "president" is usually the end of the road for political careers there's still hope!
posted by Room 641-A at 2:47 PM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
Since "president" is usually the end of the road for political careers there's still hope!
posted by Room 641-A at 2:47 PM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
Will those broken kneecaps and twisted arms be covered? Or does getting them before voting count as a pre-existing condition?
posted by Mchelly at 2:47 PM on May 3, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by Mchelly at 2:47 PM on May 3, 2017 [17 favorites]
Room 641-A: "Since "president" is usually the end of the road for political careers there's still hope!"
Nah, if you go after Christian churches, you're looking at less-than-W-level income after the presidency. He's apparently only at about $100K per speech, nowhere near $400K. Gotta get paid.
posted by TypographicalError at 2:55 PM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Nah, if you go after Christian churches, you're looking at less-than-W-level income after the presidency. He's apparently only at about $100K per speech, nowhere near $400K. Gotta get paid.
posted by TypographicalError at 2:55 PM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Aetna is pulling out of Virginia, explicitly citing uncertainty in the exchange market
Edit - Whoops apparently that's a paywall link
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:57 PM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Edit - Whoops apparently that's a paywall link
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:57 PM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
The Hill Health ‘reform’ will make sexual assault survivors sick
By the way, Rep. Joe Crowley did the math on this new Upton amendment that they are using to persuade moderates and that $8 billion sweetener spread out over 5 years could end up being as little as $1.00 a month per person. (8 billion divided by 5 divided by 2 divided by 130 million people.) The 130 million people stat that he used came from American Progress:
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:58 PM on May 3, 2017 [27 favorites]
Before passage of the ACA in 2010, sexual assault survivors who had sought medical care for their injuries could be denied health insurance coverage at a later date. The reason? Health insurers often categorized rape as a pre-existing health condition.[...]So this TrumpCare plan could end up hurting women two ways: by making certain female-specific conditions into pre-existing conditions and by cutting essential benefits that would be necessary if a woman in raped.
Stories like these prompted the National Women’s Law Center to launch a campaign called “Being a Woman Is Not a Pre-Existing Condition.” [...]
the MacArthur-Meadows amendment’s provision allowing states to also seek waivers from the ACA’s requirement that essential health benefits be covered by health insurance plans. Essential health benefits include preventive health care services that most of us take for granted. These include tests for blood pressure and cholesterol, mammograms, and vaccinations. Essential health benefits also include coverage for mental health care and substance abuse treatment.
Sexual violence survivors face acute treatment needs in the aftermath of an assault such as care for gynecological injuries, other physical trauma, sexually-transmitted diseases, and pregnancy. But sexual violence takes many forms: incest, ongoing sexual abuse outside of the family, sexual assault, sexual harassment or exploitation, and rape. Each of these types of assault puts the survivor at risk for various potential negative physical health and mental health outcomes.
By the way, Rep. Joe Crowley did the math on this new Upton amendment that they are using to persuade moderates and that $8 billion sweetener spread out over 5 years could end up being as little as $1.00 a month per person. (8 billion divided by 5 divided by 2 divided by 130 million people.) The 130 million people stat that he used came from American Progress:
Approximately 130 million nonelderly people have pre-existing conditions nationwide, and, as shown in the table available below, there is an average of more than 300,000 per congressional district. Nationally, the most common pre-existing conditions were high blood pressure (44 million people), behavioral health disorders (45 million people), high cholesterol (44 million people), asthma and chronic lung disease (34 million people), and osteoarthritis and other joint disorders (34 million people).The AARP is calling it a giveaway to insurance companies that won't help the majority of people with pre-existing conditions. Upton himself has said he isn't sure if $8 billion is enough for what he wants AHCA to do but he trusts "leadership" that it is.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:58 PM on May 3, 2017 [27 favorites]
By the way, Rep. Joe Crowley did the math on this new Upton amendment that they are using to persuade moderates and that $8 billion sweetener spread out over 5 years could end up being as little as $1.00 a month per person.
I am a middle aged person with a pre-existing condition and before Obamacare my premium was $800 a month. One dollar looks pretty small next to that.
posted by puddledork at 3:06 PM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
I am a middle aged person with a pre-existing condition and before Obamacare my premium was $800 a month. One dollar looks pretty small next to that.
posted by puddledork at 3:06 PM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
Down to 18 definite nays.
Guardian: Trump wins over two Republican holdouts in new healthcare bill push
Guardian: Trump wins over two Republican holdouts in new healthcare bill push
At the White House, Trump persuaded representatives Fred Upton of Michigan and Billy Long of Missouri, two normally loyal Republicans who had balked at the bill’s provision to remove protections for those with pre-existing conditions with the promise of $8bn in extra funding to subsidize healthcare for those affected.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:30 PM on May 3, 2017
Aetna is pulling out of Virginia, explicitly citing uncertainty in the exchange market
Never believe what health insurance companies say in public. Or any other corporation for that matter. They will always say what is politically advantageous for them at the moment.
"A federal judge has ruled that Aetna wasn't being truthful when the health insurer said last summer that its decision to pull out of most Obamacare exchanges was strictly a business decision triggered by mounting losses.
U.S. District Judge John Bates concluded this week that Aetna's real motivation for dropping Obamacare coverage in several states was "specifically to evade judicial scrutiny" over its merger with Humana." Aetna lied about losing money.
This Virginia announcement comes after that ruling, but is indicative of blatant lying by corporate executives for PR purposes.
posted by JackFlash at 3:33 PM on May 3, 2017 [30 favorites]
Never believe what health insurance companies say in public. Or any other corporation for that matter. They will always say what is politically advantageous for them at the moment.
"A federal judge has ruled that Aetna wasn't being truthful when the health insurer said last summer that its decision to pull out of most Obamacare exchanges was strictly a business decision triggered by mounting losses.
U.S. District Judge John Bates concluded this week that Aetna's real motivation for dropping Obamacare coverage in several states was "specifically to evade judicial scrutiny" over its merger with Humana." Aetna lied about losing money.
This Virginia announcement comes after that ruling, but is indicative of blatant lying by corporate executives for PR purposes.
posted by JackFlash at 3:33 PM on May 3, 2017 [30 favorites]
Rice declines Senate request to testify on Russian hacking
Despite declining the appearance, Rice's lawyer assured Graham and Whitehouse in the letter that she was "prepared to assist Congressional inquiries into Russian election interference because of the important national interests at stake, provided they are conducted in a bipartisan manner, and, as appropriate, in classified session."
posted by futz at 3:48 PM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Despite declining the appearance, Rice's lawyer assured Graham and Whitehouse in the letter that she was "prepared to assist Congressional inquiries into Russian election interference because of the important national interests at stake, provided they are conducted in a bipartisan manner, and, as appropriate, in classified session."
posted by futz at 3:48 PM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Buzzfeed News: The Justice Department Under Trump Is Fighting To Keep Records About Hillary Clinton Secret
Conservative advocacy groups are still pursuing public records lawsuits about Hillary Clinton and other Obama-era officials’ use of private email and mobile devices for official business. DOJ has carried on the previous administration’s fight against releasing certain information.
Raw Story: ‘More like Cinco de Mayonnaise’: Internet loses it after Pence tapped by Trump to host Cinco de Mayo party
posted by Room 641-A at 3:50 PM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Conservative advocacy groups are still pursuing public records lawsuits about Hillary Clinton and other Obama-era officials’ use of private email and mobile devices for official business. DOJ has carried on the previous administration’s fight against releasing certain information.
Raw Story: ‘More like Cinco de Mayonnaise’: Internet loses it after Pence tapped by Trump to host Cinco de Mayo party
posted by Room 641-A at 3:50 PM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Sounds like Rice was being set up to play out Trump's diversionary distraction & saw through it. Good for her.
posted by scalefree at 3:52 PM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 3:52 PM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
Well, the thing about this ACHA clusterfuck and Trump's using the cost sharing payments as a threat to Democrats is he is creating uncertainty in the markets and giving insurers either leverage or cover to pull out, regardless of their actual economics. They're ensuring a coverage death spiral by making it impossible for insurers to project costs or trust the government not to renege on its obligations.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:00 PM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:00 PM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
According to every Congressional reporter on Twitter at once, the AHCA vote is on for tomorrow. It's unclear that they have the votes, there's good reason to believe they're a few shy, but it's happening.
posted by zachlipton at 4:03 PM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 4:03 PM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
There's no question Trump can crash the insurance market if he tries hard enough. But can he do it and not be blamed for it? I'm perhaps naively hopeful he can't do that.
posted by scalefree at 4:05 PM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by scalefree at 4:05 PM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
They won't call a vote unless they have the votes, so they think they have them.
posted by Justinian at 4:06 PM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 4:06 PM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
I suppose they could be using a scheduled vote as a pressure tactic to try to flip waverers but that was the theory last time and it ended up with a humiliation so one can't imagine they'd try the same thing again?
posted by Justinian at 4:10 PM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 4:10 PM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
They won't call a vote unless they have the votes, so they think they have them.
So you would think, Justinian, yet.... There are 19 hard "noes" at this moment and that means out of the group of 33 undecideds they only need to 3 to say "No." Many of those 33 are Reps in Blue States like NY, NJ, and CA. I find it hard to believe all of the undecideds are going to give up and vote for this piece of crap.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:13 PM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
So you would think, Justinian, yet.... There are 19 hard "noes" at this moment and that means out of the group of 33 undecideds they only need to 3 to say "No." Many of those 33 are Reps in Blue States like NY, NJ, and CA. I find it hard to believe all of the undecideds are going to give up and vote for this piece of crap.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:13 PM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
They really are trying to start a culture war aren't they?
posted by Brainy at 4:14 PM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Brainy at 4:14 PM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Assuming they have the votes how much of a barrier is the Senate?
posted by Artw at 4:14 PM on May 3, 2017
posted by Artw at 4:14 PM on May 3, 2017
NY and CA aren't just blue states, they are states that will get $0 in subsidies to help people buy insurance under the AHCA, because they require insurers cover abortion. Any NY or CA rep voting for this is voting to screw their state out of billions of dollars in heath care funding and their constituents out of subsides to get insurance.
posted by zachlipton at 4:15 PM on May 3, 2017 [43 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 4:15 PM on May 3, 2017 [43 favorites]
It's an absolute barrier on many important provisions. It's a thin but strong barrier to some of the worst of the provisions, and it's virtually no barrier to some shitty but sort-of-bearable provisions.
Essentially they can't repeal-and-replace obamacare without 60 votes but they can repeal enough to destroy the market if they decide to kill millions of Americans out of pique.
posted by Justinian at 4:16 PM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
Essentially they can't repeal-and-replace obamacare without 60 votes but they can repeal enough to destroy the market if they decide to kill millions of Americans out of pique.
posted by Justinian at 4:16 PM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
Vote is definitely tomorrow, according to MSNBC.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:16 PM on May 3, 2017
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:16 PM on May 3, 2017
No text of the bill, no CBO score, no public hearings.
But Obamacare was "rammed down our throats" over 1 year of public negotiations and over 40 public hearings.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:19 PM on May 3, 2017 [91 favorites]
But Obamacare was "rammed down our throats" over 1 year of public negotiations and over 40 public hearings.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:19 PM on May 3, 2017 [91 favorites]
Artw: For example, they could scrap the Medicaid expansion with reconciliation but AFAIK they cannot mess with the stuff mandating what kinds of coverage must be provided without passing a filibuster (which wouldn't happen.) They could scrap the tax penalties for not being insured with reconciliation but they couldn't scrap the mandate itself.
People are scared about the abortion provision killing the subsidies in NY and CA. I don't think, key word think, that they can do that with reconciliation. They could kill all subsidies but not target abortion because that would be held not to be a budgetary concern.
And so on.
posted by Justinian at 4:24 PM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
People are scared about the abortion provision killing the subsidies in NY and CA. I don't think, key word think, that they can do that with reconciliation. They could kill all subsidies but not target abortion because that would be held not to be a budgetary concern.
And so on.
posted by Justinian at 4:24 PM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
One of the "undecided" Reps is Carlos Curbelo, FL-26. He tweeted at 10:57 am: I just reiterated to @HouseGOP leaders that #AHCA in its current form fails to sufficiently protect Americans with pre-existing conditions
He followed that up with: I look forward to discussing @RepFredUpton's #AHCA amendment with him when he returms to Capitol Hill. No information yet.
So it is all about this Upton amendment and I'm afraid that the Representatives will not have enough information to make an informed vote. If you have a Rep sitting on the fence call them up and tell them that $8 billion dollars spread out over 5 years is just a tiny drop in the bucket compared to how high the rates will go up for pre-existing conditions. A more realistic number needed for the high risk pools is $200 billion.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:26 PM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
He followed that up with: I look forward to discussing @RepFredUpton's #AHCA amendment with him when he returms to Capitol Hill. No information yet.
So it is all about this Upton amendment and I'm afraid that the Representatives will not have enough information to make an informed vote. If you have a Rep sitting on the fence call them up and tell them that $8 billion dollars spread out over 5 years is just a tiny drop in the bucket compared to how high the rates will go up for pre-existing conditions. A more realistic number needed for the high risk pools is $200 billion.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:26 PM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
TrumpCareToolkit. Find out if your Rep is on the bubble & get their phone number handed to you so you can add your voice to the throng.
posted by scalefree at 4:28 PM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 4:28 PM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
If there were a plan to actually get this latest AHCA all the way to Trump's desk, it would have to go through the Democrats: Just enough sweetener in the Senate to pull eight Democrats on board, and then in Conference with the House, enough sweetener to draw however many Democrats they'd need to overcome Freedom Caucus defections.
Is that probable?
posted by notyou at 4:31 PM on May 3, 2017
Is that probable?
posted by notyou at 4:31 PM on May 3, 2017
The chances of 8 Democrats voting for essentially any AHCA bill is 0.
posted by Justinian at 4:33 PM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 4:33 PM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
They are not going to find enough Democrats in either house to vote to repeal ObamaCare and no amount of sweetener is going to make the slashing of MediCaid appetizing.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:33 PM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:33 PM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
If there were a plan to actually get this latest AHCA all the way to Trump's desk, it would have to go through the Democrats: Just enough sweetener in the Senate to pull eight Democrats on board, and then in Conference with the House, enough sweetener to draw however many Democrats they'd need to overcome Freedom Caucus defections.
Nope. They're doing this under reconciliation. That limits what they can do, and it's unclear how much of this can get through the Byrd Rule in the Senate and be passed under reconciliation, but they only need 50 votes.
Now, as it happens, it's pretty clear that the AHCA as it stands now is well short of 50 votes in the Senate too. But what the Senate does if this steaming mass of garbage is plopped on their desk is anyone's guess.
posted by zachlipton at 4:35 PM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Nope. They're doing this under reconciliation. That limits what they can do, and it's unclear how much of this can get through the Byrd Rule in the Senate and be passed under reconciliation, but they only need 50 votes.
Now, as it happens, it's pretty clear that the AHCA as it stands now is well short of 50 votes in the Senate too. But what the Senate does if this steaming mass of garbage is plopped on their desk is anyone's guess.
posted by zachlipton at 4:35 PM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
This Upton amendment is pure horseshit, a mere fig leaf to provide cover for so-called "moderate" Republicans to abandon all principle and succumb to pressure from the Republican leadership. In a $1 trillion dollar program they are talking about $8 billion, less than 1%. This $8 billion is spread over 5 years so is just $1.6 billion per year, a drop in the bucket.
Any so-called "moderate" who says that the the Upton amendment is the turning point for them is just flat out lying. They are simply looking for any flimsy excuse to go along with Trump and make the mean words stop.
Cowards. Every single one of them.
posted by JackFlash at 4:35 PM on May 3, 2017 [20 favorites]
Any so-called "moderate" who says that the the Upton amendment is the turning point for them is just flat out lying. They are simply looking for any flimsy excuse to go along with Trump and make the mean words stop.
Cowards. Every single one of them.
posted by JackFlash at 4:35 PM on May 3, 2017 [20 favorites]
Script for calling Representatives:
"I am a constituent of Rep. X and am outraged that Paul Ryan is bringing a vote on the AHCA, when the complete text of the bill remains unpublished, the effects of the proposed legislation have not been scored by the Congressional Budget Office, and there have been no public hearings on this bill.
The people of this country have a right to a non-partisan budgetary analysis on the AHCA and are entitled to view the entire text and discuss its contents with their legislators in the upcoming recess.
However, should this bill come up for a vote, I expect* Rep. X to vote No on this ill-prepared, unevaluated, and dangerous bill."
* If your Rep is a solid no, thank them and ask them to pressure fence-sitters.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 4:39 PM on May 3, 2017 [19 favorites]
"I am a constituent of Rep. X and am outraged that Paul Ryan is bringing a vote on the AHCA, when the complete text of the bill remains unpublished, the effects of the proposed legislation have not been scored by the Congressional Budget Office, and there have been no public hearings on this bill.
The people of this country have a right to a non-partisan budgetary analysis on the AHCA and are entitled to view the entire text and discuss its contents with their legislators in the upcoming recess.
However, should this bill come up for a vote, I expect* Rep. X to vote No on this ill-prepared, unevaluated, and dangerous bill."
* If your Rep is a solid no, thank them and ask them to pressure fence-sitters.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 4:39 PM on May 3, 2017 [19 favorites]
Another talking point:
Brookings: Allowing states to define “essential health benefits” could weaken ACA protections against catastrophic costs for people with employer coverage nationwide
Brookings: Allowing states to define “essential health benefits” could weaken ACA protections against catastrophic costs for people with employer coverage nationwide
In particular, a single state’s decision to weaken or eliminate its essential health benefit standards could weaken or effectively eliminate the ACA’s guarantee of protection against catastrophic costs for people with coverage through large employer plans in every state. The two affected protections are the ACA’s ban on annual and lifetime limits, as well as the ACA’s requirement that insurance plans cap enrollees’ annual out-of-pocket spending. Both of these provisions aim to ensure that seriously ill people can access needed health care services while continuing to meet their other financial needs.[...]posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:41 PM on May 3, 2017 [13 favorites]
A majority of employer plans imposed lifetime limits prior to the ACA, and more than one-sixth lacked limits on out-of-pocket spending.) However, the ACA’s ban on annual and lifetime limits only applies with respect to care that is considered essential health benefits. Similarly, the ACA only requires that plans cap enrollees’ annual out-of-pocket spending on care that is considered essential health benefits. Thus, as the definition of essential health benefits narrows, the scope of these requirements narrows as well. Indeed, if nothing was considered an essential health benefit, then these requirements would be completely meaningless.
We should absolutely hammer them on letting states define the EHBs but that's one of the provisions that can't make it into a final bill because of a filibuster, thank god.
posted by Justinian at 4:43 PM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 4:43 PM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
This $8 billion is spread over 5 years so is just $1.6 billion per year, a drop in the bucket.
I lost the twitter attribution, but an estimated 130 million people have preexisting conditions, 8 billion over 5 years / 130 million is about $1 a month per person.
Republican "moderates" are willing to sell out their constituents for the promise of literally 1$ a month to "help" them pay for health care premiums.
Please tell me again how any Republican can be described as a "moderate".
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:43 PM on May 3, 2017 [17 favorites]
I lost the twitter attribution, but an estimated 130 million people have preexisting conditions, 8 billion over 5 years / 130 million is about $1 a month per person.
Republican "moderates" are willing to sell out their constituents for the promise of literally 1$ a month to "help" them pay for health care premiums.
Please tell me again how any Republican can be described as a "moderate".
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:43 PM on May 3, 2017 [17 favorites]
In fact, the Upton Amendment and the MacArthur Amendment, because they're shiny and new, are being used to distract from the fact that most of the awful things about the AHCA in March are still here, and some have gotten worse. Everyone is talking about pre-existing conditions, but we still have 10+ million kicked off Medicaid over the next few years, woefully inadequate tax credits to pay for insurance, and greatly higher costs for older Americans, among other horribles.
This, fundamentally, is not a health care bill: it's a massive tax cut for the wealthy that pays for itself by massively cutting health care, disproportionately for poor people.
posted by zachlipton at 4:44 PM on May 3, 2017 [30 favorites]
This, fundamentally, is not a health care bill: it's a massive tax cut for the wealthy that pays for itself by massively cutting health care, disproportionately for poor people.
posted by zachlipton at 4:44 PM on May 3, 2017 [30 favorites]
The Medicaid part is even bigger than just ending the expansion, they want to block grant all of medicaid, which pays for almost all hospice and nursing home care in the US. No one can afford end of life or long term full-time care. No one. Every family will have someone who needs Medicaid to step in and cover those costs at some point. And Republicans are going to end it without a public hearing or even releasing the text of the bill.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:48 PM on May 3, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:48 PM on May 3, 2017 [17 favorites]
I lost the twitter attribution, but an estimated 130 million people have preexisting conditions, 8 billion over 5 years / 130 million is about $1 a month per person.
This isn't quite accurate. It's $8 billion more compared to before the Upton Amendment. There's another $100 billion or so that was there before and is still there. The 130 million people figure isn't really the right one to use here either, since people with employer plans, people with continuous coverage, and people in states that don't do opt-outs won't be receiving money from that fund.
It is, however, still at least $90 billion short according to the numbers I've seen, and that's just talking about high risk pools for pre-existing conditions ("fuck off and die pools"). Plenty of other things in the bill are also massively underfunded, such as the tax credits/subsidies and Medicaid. And that's just a mathematical fact. You can't take trillions out of the healthcare system to pay for tax cuts for rich people without, well, spending trillions less on healthcare, and the only mechanism in this bill to spend less money on healthcare is to underfund people's health insurance.
posted by zachlipton at 4:49 PM on May 3, 2017 [10 favorites]
This isn't quite accurate. It's $8 billion more compared to before the Upton Amendment. There's another $100 billion or so that was there before and is still there. The 130 million people figure isn't really the right one to use here either, since people with employer plans, people with continuous coverage, and people in states that don't do opt-outs won't be receiving money from that fund.
It is, however, still at least $90 billion short according to the numbers I've seen, and that's just talking about high risk pools for pre-existing conditions ("fuck off and die pools"). Plenty of other things in the bill are also massively underfunded, such as the tax credits/subsidies and Medicaid. And that's just a mathematical fact. You can't take trillions out of the healthcare system to pay for tax cuts for rich people without, well, spending trillions less on healthcare, and the only mechanism in this bill to spend less money on healthcare is to underfund people's health insurance.
posted by zachlipton at 4:49 PM on May 3, 2017 [10 favorites]
This is a good summary of the AHCA as it stands right now, in its entirety, without just focusing on the most recent amendments.
posted by zachlipton at 4:52 PM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 4:52 PM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
> There's no question Trump can crash the insurance market if he tries hard enough. But can he do it and not be blamed for it? I'm perhaps naively hopeful he can't do that.
You're forgetting that avoiding responsibility for things he did is Trump's superpower.
posted by The Card Cheat at 4:52 PM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
You're forgetting that avoiding responsibility for things he did is Trump's superpower.
posted by The Card Cheat at 4:52 PM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
Yeah it is ALL about the MediCaid cuts-- that is the most important part of the bill to them because that will be a savings of (can I be lazy and guess from memory?) a $1 trillion over 10 years. That's where the tax cuts for the wealthy come in. They can balance the tax cuts for the wealthy against this "savings" and by making them revenue neutral the tax cuts can be permanent with a simple majority in the Senate. Without the cuts to MediCaid the tax cuts would end in 10 years unless then can get 60 votes in the Senate (not going to happen.)
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:53 PM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:53 PM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
I don't think the Medicaid cuts can pass the Senate, even with reconciliation.
posted by Justinian at 4:55 PM on May 3, 2017
posted by Justinian at 4:55 PM on May 3, 2017
$1 a month per person.
This isn't quite accurate. It's $8 billion more compared to before the Upton Amendment.
I think the point was that this amendment is changing votes when in reality spread over the years and the people with pre-existing conditions it is paltry. It is a meaningless band-aid to cover-up a gaping wound.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:56 PM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
This isn't quite accurate. It's $8 billion more compared to before the Upton Amendment.
I think the point was that this amendment is changing votes when in reality spread over the years and the people with pre-existing conditions it is paltry. It is a meaningless band-aid to cover-up a gaping wound.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:56 PM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
You're forgetting that avoiding responsibility for things he did is Trump's superpower.
His taking responsibility for things he didn't do is the other side of that coin. And lack of accountability/responsibility by those who surround him is a side-effect.
So perhaps a more complete description of his superpower is something along the lines of an ability to perpetually generate a massive responsibility distortion field.
posted by darkstar at 5:01 PM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
His taking responsibility for things he didn't do is the other side of that coin. And lack of accountability/responsibility by those who surround him is a side-effect.
So perhaps a more complete description of his superpower is something along the lines of an ability to perpetually generate a massive responsibility distortion field.
posted by darkstar at 5:01 PM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
If there's no chance of this passing the Senate, are they working on the House vote for…. OK, I cannot figure out the reason.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:01 PM on May 3, 2017
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:01 PM on May 3, 2017
1) Trump is a baby and is demanding something he can claim as a success.
2) House reps want to be able to say they kept their promise to pass Obamacare repeal.
3) Maybe the horse will sing.
posted by Justinian at 5:03 PM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
2) House reps want to be able to say they kept their promise to pass Obamacare repeal.
3) Maybe the horse will sing.
posted by Justinian at 5:03 PM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
I don't know why we're pinning the hopes of the American healthcare system on Tom Cotton.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:03 PM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:03 PM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
hopes? this is 2017
posted by murphy slaw at 5:05 PM on May 3, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 5:05 PM on May 3, 2017 [11 favorites]
Ugh
@ScottWongDC: BREAKING: @RepWebster (R-FLa.) tells me he has flipped from a NO to a YES on healthcare bill
If there's no chance of this passing the Senate, are they working on the House vote for…. OK, I cannot figure out the reason.
Mitch McConnell has said he has a plan. The Senate will come up with their own plan, pass that, and then it must be reconciled with the House. As people keep saying, Do Not Depend on the Senate.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:05 PM on May 3, 2017 [28 favorites]
@ScottWongDC: BREAKING: @RepWebster (R-FLa.) tells me he has flipped from a NO to a YES on healthcare bill
If there's no chance of this passing the Senate, are they working on the House vote for…. OK, I cannot figure out the reason.
Mitch McConnell has said he has a plan. The Senate will come up with their own plan, pass that, and then it must be reconciled with the House. As people keep saying, Do Not Depend on the Senate.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:05 PM on May 3, 2017 [28 favorites]
If there's no chance of this passing the Senate, are they working on the House vote for…. OK, I cannot figure out the reason.
If Ryan gets it out of the house, he's done his job. As for what the Administration is getting out of this? I dunno. If the Senate stops it, they get to complain about evil obstructionism. As for the house, they need the vote tomorrow since the house goes into recess tomorrow for a week, and apparently a week is long enough for everything to fall apart.
posted by dis_integration at 5:05 PM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
If Ryan gets it out of the house, he's done his job. As for what the Administration is getting out of this? I dunno. If the Senate stops it, they get to complain about evil obstructionism. As for the house, they need the vote tomorrow since the house goes into recess tomorrow for a week, and apparently a week is long enough for everything to fall apart.
posted by dis_integration at 5:05 PM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
The only good thing about this, and it's a very small silver lining, is what will happen if they actually pass this thing tomorrow and then the CBO score drops, say, next week. Because it will be hideously ugly.
posted by zachlipton at 5:06 PM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 5:06 PM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Don’t Assume That the Senate Will Bury Zombie Trumpcare
To put it another way, while the House is just trying to avoid a self-inflicted defeat, Senate Republicans know they need to produce a victory, or the entire party may suffer in 2018. That alone may make the Senate GOP’s various factions more flexible.
Substantively, Republican senators can add some nips and tucks to address various needs, including more tax-credit money for low-income individuals, more money for people with preexisting conditions, a slower death for the Medicaid expansion, and less stringent rules for Medicaid funding going forward. Keeping conservatives in both houses aboard may require more of the “state flexibility” magic that secured the endorsement of the House Freedom Caucus — basically allowing states to implement conservative policies that Senate moderates oppose for the whole country. Indeed, an even broader “state option” approach has been kicking around the Senate for months in the form of the Cassidy-Collins legislation that lets states decide whether to keep or abandon the basic structure of Obamacare.
If the House passes this, the Senate will pass something to send back. At that point we're back to the same place as tonight, only with even more pressure on so-called "moderates" not to be the one Republican who prevented Obamacare repeal. If this passes the House, something will become law.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:07 PM on May 3, 2017 [11 favorites]
To put it another way, while the House is just trying to avoid a self-inflicted defeat, Senate Republicans know they need to produce a victory, or the entire party may suffer in 2018. That alone may make the Senate GOP’s various factions more flexible.
Substantively, Republican senators can add some nips and tucks to address various needs, including more tax-credit money for low-income individuals, more money for people with preexisting conditions, a slower death for the Medicaid expansion, and less stringent rules for Medicaid funding going forward. Keeping conservatives in both houses aboard may require more of the “state flexibility” magic that secured the endorsement of the House Freedom Caucus — basically allowing states to implement conservative policies that Senate moderates oppose for the whole country. Indeed, an even broader “state option” approach has been kicking around the Senate for months in the form of the Cassidy-Collins legislation that lets states decide whether to keep or abandon the basic structure of Obamacare.
If the House passes this, the Senate will pass something to send back. At that point we're back to the same place as tonight, only with even more pressure on so-called "moderates" not to be the one Republican who prevented Obamacare repeal. If this passes the House, something will become law.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:07 PM on May 3, 2017 [11 favorites]
god, the attack ads will write themselves if pelosi and co can stop viciously owning themselves for five minutes
posted by murphy slaw at 5:08 PM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 5:08 PM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
So in order to get the bulk of the GOP in congress on board with Trumpcare, all they had to do was make it worse
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:16 PM on May 3, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:16 PM on May 3, 2017 [10 favorites]
By the way, remember how the AHCA exempted Congress from its worst cuts? It still does. They're changing that in a separate bill.
posted by zachlipton at 5:18 PM on May 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 5:18 PM on May 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
No text of the bill, no CBO score, no public hearings.
This earlier comment (several threads ago) about the how the 2004 Medicare D vote happened is informative and is relevant now.
posted by compartment at 5:19 PM on May 3, 2017 [9 favorites]
This earlier comment (several threads ago) about the how the 2004 Medicare D vote happened is informative and is relevant now.
posted by compartment at 5:19 PM on May 3, 2017 [9 favorites]
i'm sure that ryan showing the freedom caucus that they have a firm grip on his bozack will end well
posted by murphy slaw at 5:19 PM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by murphy slaw at 5:19 PM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
The Republicajs want to kill and hurt as many people as possible whilst lining their pockets and my God are they going to be mega successful at it.
posted by Artw at 5:34 PM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Artw at 5:34 PM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
apparently a week is long enough for everything to fall apart.
Well, it's long enough for the CBO score to come out which will kill it. They have to pass it before that's issued.
posted by chris24 at 5:35 PM on May 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
Well, it's long enough for the CBO score to come out which will kill it. They have to pass it before that's issued.
posted by chris24 at 5:35 PM on May 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
They're buying off individual votes with promises of kickbacks
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:55 PM on May 3, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:55 PM on May 3, 2017 [10 favorites]
The CBO thing should surely be a clue, but no, Republicans will buy into any old random clusterfuck so long as hurting people is on the table.
posted by Artw at 5:57 PM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 5:57 PM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm off, but keep your eyes on Andy Slavitt.:
ALERT: A team of folks have just read the Upton amendment. Intended to be spent on ppl w pre-ex in a paltry way. There's a major shock.1posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:13 PM on May 3, 2017 [31 favorites]
I want to make sure I'm factual so give me a few minutes. But this amendment looks like a shell game. 2
GOP leaders have created a fog of war. Team is working like crazy going through language finding things. Here's what they saw... 3
This $8B targeted to take care of ppl w pre-existing conditions . . . doesn't have to be used for ppl w pre-existing conditions. 4
The number of times the words "pre-existing conditions" are used in the bill . . . Is ZERO. 5
I sweartogod if I find out any of y'all live in Reichert's district but aren't calling and faxing him right now about opposing trumpcare I will be SO MAD. I'll, lord, I don't know what I'll do. I'll... I'll tell all my liberal friends that you are VERY INTERESTED in having them show up on your facebook to earnestly argue with you about how punching nazis is bad. They have so many thoughts about the first amendment to share with you! Over and over and over again!
So if you live on the east side of lake washington and don't want that to happen, please call/fax Dave Reichert.
fax the waffler here.
or call him at 202-225-7761.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 6:13 PM on May 3, 2017 [12 favorites]
So if you live on the east side of lake washington and don't want that to happen, please call/fax Dave Reichert.
fax the waffler here.
or call him at 202-225-7761.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 6:13 PM on May 3, 2017 [12 favorites]
Upton is blaming the CBO for not having a score.
For his amendment written yesterday.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:17 PM on May 3, 2017 [35 favorites]
For his amendment written yesterday.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:17 PM on May 3, 2017 [35 favorites]
Either Fred Upton is a really stupid person, or he thinks we all are.
posted by zachlipton at 6:25 PM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 6:25 PM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
why_not_both.gif
posted by murphy slaw at 6:28 PM on May 3, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 6:28 PM on May 3, 2017 [16 favorites]
Either Fred Upton is a really stupid person, or he thinks we all are.
He thinks his constituents are stupid. And they voted for him, so he's apparently right about that.
posted by diogenes at 6:31 PM on May 3, 2017 [11 favorites]
He thinks his constituents are stupid. And they voted for him, so he's apparently right about that.
posted by diogenes at 6:31 PM on May 3, 2017 [11 favorites]
Right now I'm thanking a probably non-existant god that I live in California. Good luck red staters. We're doing what we can but it's gonna be a rough couple years.
posted by Justinian at 6:33 PM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 6:33 PM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
Update: Molina Healthcare just ousted the CEO and CFO, literally the Molina brothers, citing "disappointing financial performance." I can't help but suspect that what's going on with Obamacare might be relevant.
Update, again: Mario Molina, who has been pretty outspoken, gave an interview to Politico after he was fired.:
Update, again: Mario Molina, who has been pretty outspoken, gave an interview to Politico after he was fired.:
“I’ve been a very vocal critic of what’s going on in Washington,” Molina told POLITICO. “I know the other health plan executives have been afraid to speak out. Maybe they’re smarter than I am, but I’m not going to back off.”posted by zachlipton at 6:41 PM on May 3, 2017 [14 favorites]
Molina also didn't hold back when asked why other health plans have been quiet about the proposed repeal of legislation that has expanded coverage to 20 million Americans and yielded the lowest uninsured rate ever recorded.
“They don’t like the health insurance tax and they would like to return to a time when they could exclude people with pre-existing conditions,” Molina said. “For them it would be a good thing to go back to the old way of doing things.”
He also thinks fear is helping keep insurers quiet.
“People are afraid of the administration,” he argues. “Why take an aggressive stance if you think you have nothing to gain, or if you think you have something to lose?”
Also remember that Comey has been chasing the Clintons for more than 25 years. He was on the Kenneth Starr Watergate team and had to watch bitterly as Bill Clinton slipped through his fingers. And then again after Bill left office, Comey headed the Marc Rich pardon investigation and Clinton slipped away again.
He finally had the opportunity to get even by exploiting the Hillary email pseudo-scandal.
posted by JackFlash at 1:07 PM
Exactly. Comey may have found a way to get at the Clintons without the Bill Clinton/Loretta Lynch tarmac incident but damn it is the gift Comey keeps giving himself.
James Comey: Loretta Lynch's tarmac meeting with Bill Clinton was the turning point in the email investigation
Comey forcefully defends ‘painful’ decision on Clinton probe
"I'm not picking on the attorney general, Loretta Lynch ... but her meeting with President Clinton on that airplane was the capper for me. I then said, 'You know what? The department cannot by itself credibly end this,'" Comey said.
...
"That was a hard call for me to make, to call the attorney general that morning and say, 'I'm about to do a press conference and not going to tell you what I'm going to say.' I said, 'I hope someday you understand why I'm doing this,'" Comey said. "I knew this would be disastrous for me personally, but I thought it was the best way to protect the institutions we care about."
So painful! So mildly nauseous! So disastrous for him personally! So Lying!
I am in full on Hulk Smash mode.
posted by futz at 6:42 PM on May 3, 2017 [29 favorites]
He finally had the opportunity to get even by exploiting the Hillary email pseudo-scandal.
posted by JackFlash at 1:07 PM
Exactly. Comey may have found a way to get at the Clintons without the Bill Clinton/Loretta Lynch tarmac incident but damn it is the gift Comey keeps giving himself.
James Comey: Loretta Lynch's tarmac meeting with Bill Clinton was the turning point in the email investigation
Comey forcefully defends ‘painful’ decision on Clinton probe
"I'm not picking on the attorney general, Loretta Lynch ... but her meeting with President Clinton on that airplane was the capper for me. I then said, 'You know what? The department cannot by itself credibly end this,'" Comey said.
...
"That was a hard call for me to make, to call the attorney general that morning and say, 'I'm about to do a press conference and not going to tell you what I'm going to say.' I said, 'I hope someday you understand why I'm doing this,'" Comey said. "I knew this would be disastrous for me personally, but I thought it was the best way to protect the institutions we care about."
So painful! So mildly nauseous! So disastrous for him personally! So Lying!
I am in full on Hulk Smash mode.
posted by futz at 6:42 PM on May 3, 2017 [29 favorites]
The NPR review of Ivanka's book is astonishing:
posted by zachlipton at 6:46 PM on May 3, 2017 [119 favorites]
Trump's lack of awareness, plus a habit of skimming from her sources, often results in spectacularly misapplied quotations — like one from Toni Morrison's Beloved about the brutal psychological scars of slavery. "Freeing yourself was one thing; claiming ownership of that freed self was another," is positioned in cute faux-handwritten capitals (and tagged #itwisewords) before a chapter on "working smarter." In it, she asks: "Are you a slave to your time or the master of it? Despite your best intentions, it's easy to be reactive and get caught up in returning calls, attending meetings, answering e-mails ..."She has literally pulled quotes about slavery and racism from black women and used them to make banal points about how, you, too can have it all if you're a rich white woman with a household staff.
...
Many of the inspiring quotations Trump stakes a claim to here seem to have been culled from apocryphal inspiration memes. For instance, on the subject of asking for a raise, she quotes another black women writing on racism, Maya Angelou: "Ask for what you want and be prepared to get it."
But the real, very different line is from Angelou's memoir The Heart of a Woman, and it is a piece of advice about living in a racist world. "Ask for what you want," Angelou's mother tells her, "and be prepared to pay for what you get."
posted by zachlipton at 6:46 PM on May 3, 2017 [119 favorites]
Thought the AHCA couldn't get any worse? Well... A Little-Noticed Target in the House Health Bill: Special Education
Medicaid pays school districts for medical services and staff to care for students with disabilities in special education programs. Make massive cuts to Medicaid, and there go the services.
posted by zachlipton at 6:50 PM on May 3, 2017 [29 favorites]
Medicaid pays school districts for medical services and staff to care for students with disabilities in special education programs. Make massive cuts to Medicaid, and there go the services.
posted by zachlipton at 6:50 PM on May 3, 2017 [29 favorites]
"That was a hard call for me to make, to call the attorney general that morning and say, 'I'm about to do a press conference and not going to tell you what I'm going to say.' I said, 'I hope someday you understand why I'm doing this,'" Comey said. "I knew this would be disastrous for me personally, but I thought it was the best way to protect the institutions we care about."
Dear God.
"I hope someday you understand why I'm doing this,'" Comey said. "I knew this would be disastrous for me personally, but I thought it was the best way to protect the institutions we care about."
That can be taken in so many different ways. And I know exactly how I will take it.
Comey cannot redeem himself. There is literally nothing Comey can do to repair the damage he has done to the world.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 6:59 PM on May 3, 2017 [22 favorites]
Dear God.
"I hope someday you understand why I'm doing this,'" Comey said. "I knew this would be disastrous for me personally, but I thought it was the best way to protect the institutions we care about."
That can be taken in so many different ways. And I know exactly how I will take it.
Comey cannot redeem himself. There is literally nothing Comey can do to repair the damage he has done to the world.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 6:59 PM on May 3, 2017 [22 favorites]
Who knew the master of all things gilded would bring us literally back to the gilded age.
posted by Talez at 6:59 PM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Talez at 6:59 PM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
I forgot to add this to my last post.
Now we know: Bill Clinton cost his wife the presidency
posted by futz at 7:00 PM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Now we know: Bill Clinton cost his wife the presidency
posted by futz at 7:00 PM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
I don't believe Comey's claim that Bill Clinton's meeting with Lynch justified his breach of department policy by releasing details of an ongoing investigation, or that the far more significant actions by the Trump team shouldn't have been treated similarly. It's just an incoherent mess.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:18 PM on May 3, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:18 PM on May 3, 2017 [13 favorites]
> Now we know: Bill Clinton cost his wife the presidency
Oh, fuck off, Dana Milbank. What we "know" is that the probability that the clusterfuck we now find ourselves in was caused by one single factor is vanishingly close to zero. I'm sure it's purely coincidental that this alleged singular cause just happens to align with the priors of the serial Clinton-chaser claiming it and the schlocky political gossip columnist reporting it, too.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:22 PM on May 3, 2017 [19 favorites]
Oh, fuck off, Dana Milbank. What we "know" is that the probability that the clusterfuck we now find ourselves in was caused by one single factor is vanishingly close to zero. I'm sure it's purely coincidental that this alleged singular cause just happens to align with the priors of the serial Clinton-chaser claiming it and the schlocky political gossip columnist reporting it, too.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:22 PM on May 3, 2017 [19 favorites]
what we know is that the papers of alleged record are totes willing to print any gibberish unquestioned if it comes from a powerful Republican, and that we should for reals be reading Teen Vogue instead.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:30 PM on May 3, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:30 PM on May 3, 2017 [23 favorites]
Matt Fuller says he believes the Rs now have the votes (by 1) in the House.
posted by Justinian at 7:39 PM on May 3, 2017
posted by Justinian at 7:39 PM on May 3, 2017
In America, our legislative bodies lob horrible bills impacting major portions of the nation's economy back and forth in an effort to claim they've done something while abdicating any responsibility for governing.
In Australia, their legislative bodies lob Star Wars-themed ribbing back and forth on Twitter.
posted by zachlipton at 7:40 PM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
In Australia, their legislative bodies lob Star Wars-themed ribbing back and forth on Twitter.
posted by zachlipton at 7:40 PM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
I don't believe Comey's claim that Bill Clinton's meeting with Lynch justified his breach of department policy
No it's bullshit and it doesn't make any sense. Bill Clinton could've called Lynch anytime he wanted. There was nothing improper about that meeting. If that meeting was improper, the 1,000,000 meetings between Trump campaign officials and Russian fucking spies are a goddamn hanging offense.
posted by dis_integration at 7:43 PM on May 3, 2017 [50 favorites]
No it's bullshit and it doesn't make any sense. Bill Clinton could've called Lynch anytime he wanted. There was nothing improper about that meeting. If that meeting was improper, the 1,000,000 meetings between Trump campaign officials and Russian fucking spies are a goddamn hanging offense.
posted by dis_integration at 7:43 PM on May 3, 2017 [50 favorites]
> If that meeting was improper, the 1,000,000 meetings between Trump campaign officials and Russian fucking spies are a goddamn hanging offense.
You seem to have forgotten about 3 USC 501.2 (b), "The Clinton Rules".
posted by tonycpsu at 7:46 PM on May 3, 2017 [13 favorites]
You seem to have forgotten about 3 USC 501.2 (b), "The Clinton Rules".
posted by tonycpsu at 7:46 PM on May 3, 2017 [13 favorites]
A handy guide from Slate: An Anonymous White House Official (Who Is Totally Steve Bannon): How to tell who’s leaking what in the Trump administration.
posted by zachlipton at 7:52 PM on May 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:52 PM on May 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
By the way, remember how the AHCA exempted Congress from its worst cuts? It still does. They're changing that in a separate bill.
This goes to show the utter hypocrisy and chutzpah of Republicans. Despite their years of disparagement, they really, really like all of the benefits of Obamacare -- for themselves. What they hate is that poor people get it too and they aim to put and end to that.
Republicans are just horrible, disgusting people.
posted by JackFlash at 8:06 PM on May 3, 2017 [11 favorites]
This goes to show the utter hypocrisy and chutzpah of Republicans. Despite their years of disparagement, they really, really like all of the benefits of Obamacare -- for themselves. What they hate is that poor people get it too and they aim to put and end to that.
Republicans are just horrible, disgusting people.
posted by JackFlash at 8:06 PM on May 3, 2017 [11 favorites]
why is the new york times pandering to people who will never, ever subscribe to them? are they democrats or something?
posted by murphy slaw at 8:09 PM on May 3, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 8:09 PM on May 3, 2017 [9 favorites]
Uh, WHAT. I keep checking the URL to make sure that I haven't fallen for a hoax.
Obama's $400,000 speech could prompt Congress to go after his pension
Last year, then-president Barack Obama vetoed a bill that would have curbed the pensions of former presidents if they took outside income of $400,000 or more.
So now that former president Barack Obama has decided to accept $400,000 for an upcoming Wall Street speech, the sponsors of that bill say they'll reintroduce that bill in hopes that President Trump will sign it.
"The Obama hypocrisy on this issue is revealing," said Rep. Jason Chaffetz, R-Utah, chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee and sponsor of the 2016 bill. "His veto was very self-serving."
Chaffetz and Sen. Joni Ernst, R-Iowa, the sponsor of the companion Senate bill, say they will re-introduce the Presidential Allowance Modernization Act this month. The bill would cap presidential pensions at $200,000, with another $200,000 for expenses. But those payments would be reduced dollar-for-dollar once their outside income exceeds $400,000.
The issue isn't a partisan one — or at least, it wasn't last year. The bill passed both the House and Senate with no opposition, and no veto threat had come from the White House.
So when Obama's veto came one Friday night last July — on the last day for him to sign or veto the legislation — it took lawmakers by surprise. It was the 11th of Obama's 12 vetoes.
Can someone help me grok? Especially this: The issue isn't a partisan one — or at least, it wasn't last year. The bill passed both the House and Senate with no opposition, and no veto threat had come from the White House.
And
Rep. Elijah Cummings, D-Md., the top Democrat on Chaffetz's committee, was a co-sponsor of the original bill. “Cummings definitely supports the concept, and if we can work out the technical issues with the bill that arose late in the last Congress, we expect he would strongly support it again," said spokeswoman Jennifer Hoffman Werner.
posted by futz at 8:14 PM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
Obama's $400,000 speech could prompt Congress to go after his pension
Last year, then-president Barack Obama vetoed a bill that would have curbed the pensions of former presidents if they took outside income of $400,000 or more.
So now that former president Barack Obama has decided to accept $400,000 for an upcoming Wall Street speech, the sponsors of that bill say they'll reintroduce that bill in hopes that President Trump will sign it.
"The Obama hypocrisy on this issue is revealing," said Rep. Jason Chaffetz, R-Utah, chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee and sponsor of the 2016 bill. "His veto was very self-serving."
Chaffetz and Sen. Joni Ernst, R-Iowa, the sponsor of the companion Senate bill, say they will re-introduce the Presidential Allowance Modernization Act this month. The bill would cap presidential pensions at $200,000, with another $200,000 for expenses. But those payments would be reduced dollar-for-dollar once their outside income exceeds $400,000.
The issue isn't a partisan one — or at least, it wasn't last year. The bill passed both the House and Senate with no opposition, and no veto threat had come from the White House.
So when Obama's veto came one Friday night last July — on the last day for him to sign or veto the legislation — it took lawmakers by surprise. It was the 11th of Obama's 12 vetoes.
Can someone help me grok? Especially this: The issue isn't a partisan one — or at least, it wasn't last year. The bill passed both the House and Senate with no opposition, and no veto threat had come from the White House.
And
Rep. Elijah Cummings, D-Md., the top Democrat on Chaffetz's committee, was a co-sponsor of the original bill. “Cummings definitely supports the concept, and if we can work out the technical issues with the bill that arose late in the last Congress, we expect he would strongly support it again," said spokeswoman Jennifer Hoffman Werner.
posted by futz at 8:14 PM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
ELECTIONS NEWS
** NJ-Gov
** NJ-Gov
New Jersey is one of the two states that holds its major state elections in off-years. You hear a lot more about Virginia, because the Dems comfortably control the NJ legislature, and Chris Christie is polling slightly below Satan at this point, so it's assumed that the Dems will likely take back the governor's mansion for unified control.** VA - state leg
Some further evidence towards that today via a new Quinnipiac poll. Phil Murphy (ex-Goldman Sachs) is the likely Dem nominee, he leads Lt. Gov and likely GOP nominee Kim Guadagno by a margin of 50-25. This margin has basically held steady from Jan and March polls. Also, Joe Piscopo has decided not to run for the GOP nomination. Yes, Joe Piscopo, the SNL guy from the early 80s.
GOP potential candidates sitting out VA House of Delegates races: "51 Democrats are running against incumbent Republicans, but only four Republicans are running against incumbent Democrats."** MT-AL
The DCCC is following up on its earlier $200K funding with a dump of $400K more into the race.** GA-06
So much money is being dumped into TV ads for this race that local TV station WXIA has added an additional evening news program to provide more ad time** 2018 Senate:
Dems have 23 seats up next fall, plus 2 Dem-aligned independents. Yet only Ohio has a major declared GOP candidate.posted by Chrysostom at 8:35 PM on May 3, 2017 [24 favorites]
okay somebody needs to go over this bill with a magnifying glass and make sure it doesn't mandate weekly child sacrifices to a brazen idol
A Little-Noticed Target in the House Health Bill: Special Education
A Little-Noticed Target in the House Health Bill: Special Education
With all the sweeping changes the Republican bill would impose, little attention has been paid to its potential impact on education. School districts rely on Medicaid, the federal health care program for the poor, to provide costly services to millions of students with disabilities across the country. For nearly 30 years, Medicaid has helped school systems cover costs for special education services and equipment, from physical therapists to feeding tubes. The money is also used to provide preventive care, such as vision and hearing screenings, for other Medicaid-eligible children.posted by murphy slaw at 8:59 PM on May 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
…
Under a little-noticed provision of the health care bill, states would no longer have to consider schools eligible Medicaid providers, meaning they would not be entitled to reimbursements.
While we were paying attention to Comey and the AHCA and everything else: Senate Strikes Down Rule to Help State-Sponsored Retirement Plans
posted by zachlipton at 9:16 PM on May 3, 2017 [25 favorites]
The U.S. Senate on Wednesday ended an Obama administration effort to encourage states and cities to offer retirement savings plans for millions of private-sector employees.Because states' rights are sacrosanct and states are the laboratories of democracy, free to pursue innovative programs like this, but not if it could cost banks their ability to screw over savers with higher fees.
Lawmakers voted 50-49 to scrap a rule approved last year by the Labor Department, the latest outcome of Republicans’ push to roll back Obama-era financial regulations. The measure, which affects state initiatives, now heads to President Donald Trump’s desk for his expected signature. Mr. Trump signed a companion measure targeting cities in April.
Two Republican lawmakers— Bob Corker of Tennessee and Todd Young of Indiana—voted with Democrats against the resolution.
posted by zachlipton at 9:16 PM on May 3, 2017 [25 favorites]
Clearly the next step on Republicans' agenda is to have their Court declare guns people and then successfully "electoral" one in the next Presidential election. With the help of the speech of his (most definitely his) billions and trillions of fellow 1st-Amendment-protected citizens--for whom of course the 1st Amendment was intended and written by the Founding Financiers--President Remington will be elected in the hugest landslide ever, even if/mainly because he has to kill a few people on 5th Avenue along the way.
As it says and it has always said beneath the portrait of Peesident Trump on the one dollar bill, fellow citizen, All men are created equal, but some financial instruments and firearms are more equal than others.
/dark af hamburger
posted by riverlife at 9:54 PM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
As it says and it has always said beneath the portrait of Peesident Trump on the one dollar bill, fellow citizen, All men are created equal, but some financial instruments and firearms are more equal than others.
/dark af hamburger
posted by riverlife at 9:54 PM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm pretty sure that President Remington would still kill less people than 45 will through sheer incompetence.
posted by corb at 10:26 PM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by corb at 10:26 PM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
She has literally pulled quotes about slavery and racism from black women and used them to make banal points about how, you, too can have it all if you're a rich white woman with a household staff.
There's more:
‘Don’t use my story’: Girls Who Code founder Reshma Saujani blisters ‘complicit’ Ivanka Trump over father’s agenda
There's more:
‘Don’t use my story’: Girls Who Code founder Reshma Saujani blisters ‘complicit’ Ivanka Trump over father’s agenda
Reshma Saujani, CEO and Founder of the ‘Girls Who Code’ nonprofit for women in tech, told Ivanka Trump “don’t use my story” in a recent tweet following news that the first daughter used Saujani’s inspiring success story in her new book, “Women Who Work: Rewriting the Rules of Success,” as reported by the Washington Postposted by Room 641-A at 11:18 PM on May 3, 2017 [32 favorites]
Following news that Trump mentioned her in her new book, Saujani tweeted to Trump, telling her “don’t use my story in #WomenWhoWork unless you are going to stop being #complicit”.
More Civil War fake history: Trump’s “River of Blood” plaque (on one of his golf courses) commemorated another terrible massacre that never happened.
posted by LeLiLo at 12:07 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by LeLiLo at 12:07 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
In Australia, their legislative bodies lob Star Wars-themed ribbing back and forth on Twitter.
Update on weird Australian politics news: a politician there claims to have choked on his food while watching Veep, causing him to pass out give himself a black eye.
The Guardian has further details on the episode in question and reaction from the cast, including from Timothy Simons, who plays Jonah Ryan, who simply tweeted: "hahahahahahaha oh my god.
oh my god."
posted by zachlipton at 12:21 AM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
Update on weird Australian politics news: a politician there claims to have choked on his food while watching Veep, causing him to pass out give himself a black eye.
The Guardian has further details on the episode in question and reaction from the cast, including from Timothy Simons, who plays Jonah Ryan, who simply tweeted: "hahahahahahaha oh my god.
oh my god."
posted by zachlipton at 12:21 AM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
Update on weird Australian politics news: a politician there claims to have choked on his food while watching Veep, causing him to pass out give himself a black eye.
You really shouldn't watch TV while you eat. But that story has made my day.
posted by mumimor at 12:29 AM on May 4, 2017
You really shouldn't watch TV while you eat. But that story has made my day.
posted by mumimor at 12:29 AM on May 4, 2017
Hey man, Dubya was choking on food and passing out when it was still cool.
posted by PenDevil at 12:38 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 12:38 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
More Civil War fake history: Trump’s “River of Blood” plaque (on one of his golf courses) commemorated another terrible massacre that never happened.
Just to be a bit of a pedant: this is actually old news. The story broke aaaaaaages ago, back during the campaign, if not earlier. It is another example of the amount of eccentricity that society permits, of the things that we don't consider disqualifying.
posted by Going To Maine at 12:39 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Just to be a bit of a pedant: this is actually old news. The story broke aaaaaaages ago, back during the campaign, if not earlier. It is another example of the amount of eccentricity that society permits, of the things that we don't consider disqualifying.
posted by Going To Maine at 12:39 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
This is going to be a good day for a cry.
O, my country.
posted by Going To Maine at 12:42 AM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
O, my country.
posted by Going To Maine at 12:42 AM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
Last year, then-president Barack Obama vetoed a bill that would have curbed the pensions of former presidents if they took outside income of $400,000 or more.
So now that former president Barack Obama has decided to accept $400,000 for an upcoming Wall Street speech, the sponsors of that bill say they'll reintroduce that bill in hopes that President Trump will sign it.
I never realized that $400k was a meaningful number in this context. I thought, hey, if the Market will pay 400k, then that's the end of that.
But with this, at this point, Obama is straight-up trolling these people.
posted by mikelieman at 12:51 AM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
So now that former president Barack Obama has decided to accept $400,000 for an upcoming Wall Street speech, the sponsors of that bill say they'll reintroduce that bill in hopes that President Trump will sign it.
I never realized that $400k was a meaningful number in this context. I thought, hey, if the Market will pay 400k, then that's the end of that.
But with this, at this point, Obama is straight-up trolling these people.
posted by mikelieman at 12:51 AM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
What am I missing? This does not seem like an altogether unreasonable law on the face of it. Why would Obama veto it?
posted by bardophile at 2:24 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by bardophile at 2:24 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oh...
The veto comes less than six months before Obama will become a former president himself. But Obama suggested in a message to Congress that his veto was more about the "unintended consequences" the bill would have on his predecessors.
At issue: the expense allowances that former presidents get to travel and maintain an office. Obama said that by capping those allowances at $200,000, some current former presidents would have to lay off staff, cancel leases or even return office furniture.
Under current law, the General Services Administration must provide "suitable office space, appropriately furnished and equipped." The total cost of maintaining and staffing those officesThe total cost of maintaining and staffing those offices currently ranges from $430,000 for former president Jimmy Carter to $1.1 million for former president George W. Bush, according to a report by the Congressional Research Service.
The Presidential Allowance Modernization Act of 2016 would have removed the GSA's role in providing office space, instead giving a flat $200,000 allowance.
"Unfortunately, this bill as written would immediately terminate salaries and all benefits to staffers carrying out the official duties of former Presidents — leaving no time or mechanism for them to transition to another payroll," White House press secretary Josh Earnest said in a statement. And he said the cuts could even impact Secret Service protection for former presidents.
Earnest said Obama agrees on the need to reform presidential pensions and would sign a bill if Congress makes "technical fixes to resolve these issues."
posted by bardophile at 2:58 AM on May 4, 2017 [41 favorites]
The veto comes less than six months before Obama will become a former president himself. But Obama suggested in a message to Congress that his veto was more about the "unintended consequences" the bill would have on his predecessors.
At issue: the expense allowances that former presidents get to travel and maintain an office. Obama said that by capping those allowances at $200,000, some current former presidents would have to lay off staff, cancel leases or even return office furniture.
Under current law, the General Services Administration must provide "suitable office space, appropriately furnished and equipped." The total cost of maintaining and staffing those officesThe total cost of maintaining and staffing those offices currently ranges from $430,000 for former president Jimmy Carter to $1.1 million for former president George W. Bush, according to a report by the Congressional Research Service.
The Presidential Allowance Modernization Act of 2016 would have removed the GSA's role in providing office space, instead giving a flat $200,000 allowance.
"Unfortunately, this bill as written would immediately terminate salaries and all benefits to staffers carrying out the official duties of former Presidents — leaving no time or mechanism for them to transition to another payroll," White House press secretary Josh Earnest said in a statement. And he said the cuts could even impact Secret Service protection for former presidents.
Earnest said Obama agrees on the need to reform presidential pensions and would sign a bill if Congress makes "technical fixes to resolve these issues."
posted by bardophile at 2:58 AM on May 4, 2017 [41 favorites]
George Will: Trump has a dangerous disability
posted by octothorpe at 4:06 AM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 4:06 AM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
Fuck George Will sideways with a nail-studded 2x4, in public. This was my dad's take all along, and the talk he used to convinced my mother to pull the lever for the pussy-grabbler-in-chief.
This man is no more than a fluorescent truck stop condom ("watch the glow grow and grow!") the establishment are using to fuck us all with. When finished, they will cast him into the greasy gutter and walk away.
I haven't spoken to my parents since the beginning of October and I haven't really decided on how to move forward with this. Looking around the nets I'm finding quite a few folks in my position. It's going to be a year of Wait and see for me and mine.
posted by bird internet at 4:45 AM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
This man is no more than a fluorescent truck stop condom ("watch the glow grow and grow!") the establishment are using to fuck us all with. When finished, they will cast him into the greasy gutter and walk away.
I haven't spoken to my parents since the beginning of October and I haven't really decided on how to move forward with this. Looking around the nets I'm finding quite a few folks in my position. It's going to be a year of Wait and see for me and mine.
posted by bird internet at 4:45 AM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
wait, your dad convinced your mom to vote for trump because he's a dangerously ignorant moron?
posted by murphy slaw at 4:52 AM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 4:52 AM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
CBS' Mark Knoller says that "Today's E.O. directs the IRS to "exercise maximum enforcement restraint" on tax exempt church orgs when clergy talk politics on the pulpit" and ""provides regulatory relief" to religious objectors to some ObamaCare mandates."
So church and state separation is formally no longer a thing.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:01 AM on May 4, 2017 [11 favorites]
So church and state separation is formally no longer a thing.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:01 AM on May 4, 2017 [11 favorites]
who's running the best equivalent of a bail fund for birth control? :-/
posted by murphy slaw at 5:03 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by murphy slaw at 5:03 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
we've been talking about this in the thread already but the WSJ has some breathless reporting:
Little-Noted Provision of GOP Health Bill Could Alter Employer Plans
Last-minute amendment would allow states to obtain waivers from certain Affordable Care Act requirements
Little-Noted Provision of GOP Health Bill Could Alter Employer Plans
Last-minute amendment would allow states to obtain waivers from certain Affordable Care Act requirements
Many people who obtain health insurance through their employers—about half of the country—could be at risk of losing protections that limit out-of-pocket costs for catastrophic illnesses, due to a little-noticed provision of the House Republican health-care bill to be considered Thursday, health-policy experts say.posted by murphy slaw at 5:07 AM on May 4, 2017 [17 favorites]
Today's EOis, as all his EOs are, just another bone thrown to the base. The idea that Trump is a man of God is laughable. As long as he keeps putting out pro-religious policy, the religious right will cover eyes ears and mouth and continue to support him.
posted by Room 101 at 5:08 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Room 101 at 5:08 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
who's running the best equivalent of a bail fund for birth control? :-/
Planned Parenthood
National Network of Abortion Funds
(Also, bail funds are running a Mamas Bail Out Day for mother's day; 80% of incarcerated women are mothers.)
posted by melissasaurus at 5:17 AM on May 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
Planned Parenthood
National Network of Abortion Funds
(Also, bail funds are running a Mamas Bail Out Day for mother's day; 80% of incarcerated women are mothers.)
posted by melissasaurus at 5:17 AM on May 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
So this TrumpCare plan could end up hurting women two ways: by making certain female-specific conditions into pre-existing conditions and by cutting essential benefits that would be necessary if a woman in raped.
Well, that ought to flip a few Republican Nay votes to Yea.
posted by Gelatin at 5:17 AM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
Well, that ought to flip a few Republican Nay votes to Yea.
posted by Gelatin at 5:17 AM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
religious right will cover eyes ears and mouth and continue to support him
Their eyes and ears my be covered, but their mouths are wide open.
posted by jammer at 5:21 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Their eyes and ears my be covered, but their mouths are wide open.
posted by jammer at 5:21 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Newsmax CEO Christopher Ruddy is Trump's personal best friend. Here's an excerpt from his NYT op-ed about how great Trump is:
Simply by stepping up enforcement against undocumented workers, he has caused word to spread south of the border. Today, apprehensions of people crossing the southwest border illegally from Mexico are down 61 percent from January.
The president’s policies have created a virtual wall, one that may obviate the need for the $20 billion eyesore after all.
I take this to mean that the administration has accepted that they are not going to get funding for an actual wall, and so they are beginning to plant the seed that this was all an 11-dimensional-chess masterstroke by The Dealmaster to discourage border crossings, so he can save us all the expense of the "eyesore", which used to be referred to as a "big, beautiful wall".
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:22 AM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
Simply by stepping up enforcement against undocumented workers, he has caused word to spread south of the border. Today, apprehensions of people crossing the southwest border illegally from Mexico are down 61 percent from January.
The president’s policies have created a virtual wall, one that may obviate the need for the $20 billion eyesore after all.
I take this to mean that the administration has accepted that they are not going to get funding for an actual wall, and so they are beginning to plant the seed that this was all an 11-dimensional-chess masterstroke by The Dealmaster to discourage border crossings, so he can save us all the expense of the "eyesore", which used to be referred to as a "big, beautiful wall".
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:22 AM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
Rep. Mark Amodei (NV-02) has flipped to yes on AHCA (cite)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:22 AM on May 4, 2017
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:22 AM on May 4, 2017
having seen how angry they managed to get the Tea Party for being given healthcare, i think the GOP underestimates how angry people will get for having it taken away
posted by murphy slaw at 5:28 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 5:28 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
today has the feeling that it'll be worse than most
posted by localhuman at 5:30 AM on May 4, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by localhuman at 5:30 AM on May 4, 2017 [21 favorites]
if this pile of shit passes, i am going to retract every criticism of people who have called for a general strike
every person in america who has been able to get treatment due to the ACA should be sitting on the front steps of their representative's local office and everyone who knows them should be out in the streets
this is life and death and we should treat it as such
posted by murphy slaw at 5:35 AM on May 4, 2017 [39 favorites]
every person in america who has been able to get treatment due to the ACA should be sitting on the front steps of their representative's local office and everyone who knows them should be out in the streets
this is life and death and we should treat it as such
posted by murphy slaw at 5:35 AM on May 4, 2017 [39 favorites]
Obama's $400,000 speech could prompt Congress to go after his pension
i don't know if you've ever had to estimate your premium subsidy after buying health insurance under Obamacare but... look, the Obamas are probably worth around $100 million after their latest book deal. it would be legit hilarious if he got means-tested out of a 200k/year pension, in the same way it would be uproariously funny for Republican members of Congress to be subjected to the same awful health coverage that they want to foist on the rest of us under whatever they're calling their bill now.
posted by indubitable at 5:40 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
i don't know if you've ever had to estimate your premium subsidy after buying health insurance under Obamacare but... look, the Obamas are probably worth around $100 million after their latest book deal. it would be legit hilarious if he got means-tested out of a 200k/year pension, in the same way it would be uproariously funny for Republican members of Congress to be subjected to the same awful health coverage that they want to foist on the rest of us under whatever they're calling their bill now.
posted by indubitable at 5:40 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Ok but what about the speechifying white presidents though
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:42 AM on May 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:42 AM on May 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
As with Driving While Black, Toy Shopping While Black, Playing in a Park While Black, etc., Speechifying While Black has unique penalties.
posted by chris24 at 5:47 AM on May 4, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 5:47 AM on May 4, 2017 [32 favorites]
"The Obama hypocrisy on this issue is revealing," said Rep. Jason Chaffetz, R-Utah, chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee and sponsor of the 2016 bill. "His veto was very self-serving."
I cannot wrap my head around the dissonance of letting the Trump Administration re-write the tax code without knowing how it will benefit the current president (likely to the tune of many times $200K) and his foreign debtors, but calling President Obama's veto self-serving.
posted by gladly at 6:01 AM on May 4, 2017 [37 favorites]
I cannot wrap my head around the dissonance of letting the Trump Administration re-write the tax code without knowing how it will benefit the current president (likely to the tune of many times $200K) and his foreign debtors, but calling President Obama's veto self-serving.
posted by gladly at 6:01 AM on May 4, 2017 [37 favorites]
I don't know about everyone else but I'm feeling a bit murderous this morning. Many people in America are going to cry today and they are not all going to be liberal tears. It's heartbreaking to realize your government, your elected leaders, are more concerned with tax cuts for the wealthy then they are for your actual life and well being.
I just read a Vox article showing that opioid deaths have surpassed death by car, or by gun. More people now die from opiate overdoses then were dying at the height of the AIDs crisis. So this is a GREAT time to strip away drug rehab as an essential benefit covered by health insurance.
I cannot wrap my head around the dissonance of letting the Trump Administration re-write the tax code without knowing how it will benefit the current president (likely to the tune of many times $200K) and his foreign debtors, but calling President Obama's veto self-serving.
Forget it, Jake. It'sChinatown Chaffetz.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:08 AM on May 4, 2017 [23 favorites]
I just read a Vox article showing that opioid deaths have surpassed death by car, or by gun. More people now die from opiate overdoses then were dying at the height of the AIDs crisis. So this is a GREAT time to strip away drug rehab as an essential benefit covered by health insurance.
I cannot wrap my head around the dissonance of letting the Trump Administration re-write the tax code without knowing how it will benefit the current president (likely to the tune of many times $200K) and his foreign debtors, but calling President Obama's veto self-serving.
Forget it, Jake. It's
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:08 AM on May 4, 2017 [23 favorites]
Everything is terrible and I hate everything about everything.
posted by diogenes at 6:09 AM on May 4, 2017 [42 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 6:09 AM on May 4, 2017 [42 favorites]
having seen how angry they managed to get the Tea Party for being given healthcare, i think the GOP underestimates how angry people will get for having it taken away
One hopes. Of course, in the case of the Tea Partiers they'll probably get angry at the wrong people.
posted by Artw at 6:14 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
One hopes. Of course, in the case of the Tea Partiers they'll probably get angry at the wrong people.
posted by Artw at 6:14 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Well, here we go. They are debating the rule for HR 2192 ("eliminate the non-application of certain State waiver provisions to Members of Congress and congressional staff"-- good Lord, Congress, speak English) and HR 1628 (AHCA, as amended).
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:20 AM on May 4, 2017
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:20 AM on May 4, 2017
TRUMPCARE AM UPDATE: After bombshell this AM (see @StephArmour1 who broke it), Congress has allocated 40 minutes to debate before voting. -- Andy Slavitt
posted by murphy slaw at 6:23 AM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
Hi, everyone. Please pass the barf bag.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:27 AM on May 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:27 AM on May 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
This is the way America ends; not with a bang, but on Twitter.
posted by delfin at 6:28 AM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by delfin at 6:28 AM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
"I am glad you are here with me. Here at the end of all things, Metafilter."
posted by Salieri at 6:29 AM on May 4, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by Salieri at 6:29 AM on May 4, 2017 [27 favorites]
Last night I remembered a work story from the pre-ACA days: the billing office got a call from a patient who had received a denial for a servce rendered on the first day of a new policy. When we dug into it, it turns out the plan considered the diagnosis a "pre-existing condition", since they had been suffering since before the policy was active (like, a few days), so the service was denied. I'm sure insurers will be thrilled to go back to the bad old days where they could deny, deny, deny, but it's not a win at all for the American people.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 6:30 AM on May 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 6:30 AM on May 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
There's a Congressional recess after today, also, for the House only, until the 16th. So they'll be voting and getting the hell out of dodge, too. I wouldn't recommend some of these people going home to their districts.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:35 AM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:35 AM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
*looks up from sharpening his pitchfork*
soon, my precious.... soon.
*throws another log under the boiling cauldron of tar, resumes sharpening his pitchfork*
posted by entropicamericana at 6:38 AM on May 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
soon, my precious.... soon.
*throws another log under the boiling cauldron of tar, resumes sharpening his pitchfork*
posted by entropicamericana at 6:38 AM on May 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
I cannot wrap my head around the dissonance of letting the Trump Administration re-write the tax code without knowing how it will benefit the current president (likely to the tune of many times $200K) and his foreign debtors, but calling President Obama's veto self-serving.
Republicans never argue in good faith. It's IOKIYAR all day, every day.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:39 AM on May 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
Republicans never argue in good faith. It's IOKIYAR all day, every day.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:39 AM on May 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
I feel so impotent over here in Blueville. My rep is already spitting fire about this so I'm just sitting here, knowing he's going to vote No, and knowing it won't do any good.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:39 AM on May 4, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:39 AM on May 4, 2017 [26 favorites]
I know House Republicans are abysmally evil and all but I still can't quite believe they're going to vote on an Obamacare repeal bill that explicitly excludes themselves and their staffers
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:39 AM on May 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:39 AM on May 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
Buzzfeed: Trump Will Issue An Executive Order To Protect Churches Involved In Political Activities
A senior White House official said the order will address enforcement of tax rules for churches and contraception mandates under Obamacare — not exemptions that would allow LGBT discrimination, as many expected.: The order will direct the IRS to use the maximum discretion possible to mitigate effects of a 1954 law designed to ban tax-exempt organizations, like churches, from engaging in certain political activity, a senior White House official said on a conference call with reporters.
The official added the order will also provide so-called regulatory relief for religious organizations that object to a mandate in the Affordable Care Act to provide contraception coverage to employees.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:40 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
A senior White House official said the order will address enforcement of tax rules for churches and contraception mandates under Obamacare — not exemptions that would allow LGBT discrimination, as many expected.: The order will direct the IRS to use the maximum discretion possible to mitigate effects of a 1954 law designed to ban tax-exempt organizations, like churches, from engaging in certain political activity, a senior White House official said on a conference call with reporters.
The official added the order will also provide so-called regulatory relief for religious organizations that object to a mandate in the Affordable Care Act to provide contraception coverage to employees.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:40 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
NPR's take on the IRS element of the executive order is that the IRS is already failing to enforce the law and it won't make much practical difference.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:43 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:43 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
I feel like after a couple weeks of general bumbling and nothing going their way, they've decided to just go all in on every terrible fucking idea they can dream up all at the same time. I have to admit, I took advantage of the breather in awfulness to step back, do some self-care, enjoy some family and hobby time. And now look what happened!!!
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:44 AM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:44 AM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
In the course of an interview with Anand Gopal on yesterday's Democracy Now! (at about 26:00, alt link, .torrent, transcript, extended interview) about Syria they mentioned a report released by Human Rights Watch on Monday assessing the use of chemical weapons by Assad since November (press release, summarizing video including interviews with victims.)
HRW concludes that the attack at Khan Sheikhoun on April 4 which killed 92 people so far, that the Trump Administration ostentatiously responded to, was carried out with a Soviet KhAB-250/ХБ(ХАБ)-250 air-dropped munition specifically designed for delivering sarin. This has been the deadliest attack involving chemical weapons since November, but the majority of attacks have involved chlorine, including one in the vicinity of Damascus on April 7, the same day as the U.S. strike against the Shayrat air base. In addition to attacks from the air, regime ground forces have been using chlorine via rocket attack.
posted by XMLicious at 6:47 AM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
HRW concludes that the attack at Khan Sheikhoun on April 4 which killed 92 people so far, that the Trump Administration ostentatiously responded to, was carried out with a Soviet KhAB-250/ХБ(ХАБ)-250 air-dropped munition specifically designed for delivering sarin. This has been the deadliest attack involving chemical weapons since November, but the majority of attacks have involved chlorine, including one in the vicinity of Damascus on April 7, the same day as the U.S. strike against the Shayrat air base. In addition to attacks from the air, regime ground forces have been using chlorine via rocket attack.
posted by XMLicious at 6:47 AM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
A GOP rep just reassured us that the AHCA is the "key that will unlock the door" and is just a first step before they take further steps to "deregulate the marketplace" and I mean Thank the Lord because I was really scared for a moment. The idea of people out there suffering under a regulated marketplace makes me tremble
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:47 AM on May 4, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:47 AM on May 4, 2017 [20 favorites]
I feel so impotent over here in Blueville. My rep is already spitting fire about this so I'm just sitting here, knowing he's going to vote No, and knowing it won't do any good.
For those in NYC, there's a protest today at 2:00 at DeWitt Clinton Park to protest Trump's appearance at the Intrepid Museum.
posted by chris24 at 6:49 AM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
For those in NYC, there's a protest today at 2:00 at DeWitt Clinton Park to protest Trump's appearance at the Intrepid Museum.
posted by chris24 at 6:49 AM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
NJ - GOV: it's assumed that the Dems will likely take back the governor's mansion for unified control.
Some further evidence towards that today via a new Quinnipiac poll. Phil Murphy (ex-Goldman Sachs) is the likely Dem nominee, he leads Lt. Gov and likely GOP nominee Kim Guadagno by a margin of 50-25.
thank you Chrysostom for sharing this news.
Story time: Jim Corzine, the governor before Christie, was another Democratic Goldman Sachs politician, and he was so bad that my dad is still bitching about him ten years later. Maybe my dad is unique, idunno. But that is why I'm extra worried about "ex-Goldman Sachs" ads in New Jersey.
And I'm still kind of worred about Phil Murphy as a candidate, because he hasn't faced any of those "ex-Goldman Sachs" ads yet, because his primary opposers don't have the money for them. But this Quinnipiac poll is a little reassuring.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 6:49 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Some further evidence towards that today via a new Quinnipiac poll. Phil Murphy (ex-Goldman Sachs) is the likely Dem nominee, he leads Lt. Gov and likely GOP nominee Kim Guadagno by a margin of 50-25.
thank you Chrysostom for sharing this news.
Story time: Jim Corzine, the governor before Christie, was another Democratic Goldman Sachs politician, and he was so bad that my dad is still bitching about him ten years later. Maybe my dad is unique, idunno. But that is why I'm extra worried about "ex-Goldman Sachs" ads in New Jersey.
And I'm still kind of worred about Phil Murphy as a candidate, because he hasn't faced any of those "ex-Goldman Sachs" ads yet, because his primary opposers don't have the money for them. But this Quinnipiac poll is a little reassuring.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 6:49 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
I feel so impotent over here in Blueville. My rep is already spitting fire about this so I'm just sitting here, knowing he's going to vote No, and knowing it won't do any good.
Getting votes like this on the record is how we win in 2018.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:51 AM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
Getting votes like this on the record is how we win in 2018.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:51 AM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
Getting votes like this on the record is how we win in 2018.
i can't think about 2018 today.
i'm so worried that this overstuffed bag of toxic waste will pick up enough momentum by passing the house to clear the senate and then folks are going to fucking die.
posted by murphy slaw at 6:54 AM on May 4, 2017 [26 favorites]
i can't think about 2018 today.
i'm so worried that this overstuffed bag of toxic waste will pick up enough momentum by passing the house to clear the senate and then folks are going to fucking die.
posted by murphy slaw at 6:54 AM on May 4, 2017 [26 favorites]
passing the house to clear the senate and then folks are going to fucking die.
Good news! It doesn't even have to clear the senate to kill people! Whatever steaming pile of shit they pass will likely be different, and so there will need to be a conference committee, so whatever comes out will be a compromise of shitty and shitty!
posted by ArgentCorvid at 7:04 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Good news! It doesn't even have to clear the senate to kill people! Whatever steaming pile of shit they pass will likely be different, and so there will need to be a conference committee, so whatever comes out will be a compromise of shitty and shitty!
posted by ArgentCorvid at 7:04 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Holy shit, Doug Collins (GOP-GA) just accused Sheila Jackson Lee (DEM-TX) of "going into hysterics" for saying that she's a breast-cancer survivor and she wants people with pre-existing conditions to keep access to healthcare
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:06 AM on May 4, 2017 [72 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:06 AM on May 4, 2017 [72 favorites]
Holy shit, Doug Collins (GOP-GA) just accused Sheila Jackson Lee (DEM-TX) of "going into hysterics"
Well, as long as he doesn't laugh at her, he hasn't crossed any lines.
posted by Etrigan at 7:07 AM on May 4, 2017 [31 favorites]
Well, as long as he doesn't laugh at her, he hasn't crossed any lines.
posted by Etrigan at 7:07 AM on May 4, 2017 [31 favorites]
He just used the word "hysterics" again. Maybe this has been focus-group tested in Georgia idk
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:09 AM on May 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:09 AM on May 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
The Hill: ObamaCare repeal plan could remove protections for people on employer health plans
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:10 AM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:10 AM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
Brian Beutler: The Republican Health Plan Is a Lethal Moral Obscenity
Back in 2011, I wrote a story about how Obamacare’s coverage guarantee, and its ban on price discrimination against people with pre-existing conditions, weren’t just policy improvements, but a compact with the public. The expectation that chronically ill patients would be insurable in perpetuity would not just increase insurance rolls, but lay a foundation for medical decisions that, while life-saving, would leave them in need of constant treatment.posted by zombieflanders at 7:10 AM on May 4, 2017 [14 favorites]
The article repurposed the term “death panels” to describe a very real problem—not just that most experts believe insurance and mortality are linked, and reducing coverage will lead to preventable deaths, but that ending the compact would interfere direction with ongoing care.
If, for instance, you got an organ transplant thanks to a health plan you bought on an ACA exchange, or through the ACA’s Medicaid expansion, and rely on expensive immunosuppressant therapy to prevent your body from rejecting the new organ, House Republicans will vote today to maybe kill you.
[...]
The insularity of conservative thoughts blinds many Republicans to this logical certainty. Just as so many Republicans lack the empathy to support things like marriage equality or disability rights until their families need the protections, they can not see that violating the pre-existing conditions promise is grossly inhumane. And because Republican members of Congress are all insured—and, indeed, they selfishly exempted themselves from the pre-existing conditions rollback—it will never dawn on them. In many cases, the GOP’s moral intuition runs backwards.
But that doesn’t mean Republicans don’t know what they’re doing in a broader sense.
He just used the word "hysterics" again.
If he is aware of that word's etymology he might be making a not-so-subtle dig at her gender.
posted by PontifexPrimus at 7:15 AM on May 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
If he is aware of that word's etymology he might be making a not-so-subtle dig at her gender.
posted by PontifexPrimus at 7:15 AM on May 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
If he is aware of that word's etymology he might be making a not-so-subtle dig at her gender.
There's no "if" and "might" about it.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:16 AM on May 4, 2017 [63 favorites]
There's no "if" and "might" about it.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:16 AM on May 4, 2017 [63 favorites]
"Hysteria" is 100% a feminine-coded slur.
posted by the turtle's teeth at 7:17 AM on May 4, 2017 [71 favorites]
posted by the turtle's teeth at 7:17 AM on May 4, 2017 [71 favorites]
The House GOP in 2017, paraphrased: 'CBO score? Why wait for that?'
There's all the reason in the world not to wait, because the CBO score of just how bad this Republican plan is -- and how many Americans will lose insurance as a result -- is arguably part of what doomed it the first time. Republicans are passing mystery meat because they don't dare level with the American people about the blood price of their precious tax cuts for the rich.
posted by Gelatin at 7:18 AM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
There's all the reason in the world not to wait, because the CBO score of just how bad this Republican plan is -- and how many Americans will lose insurance as a result -- is arguably part of what doomed it the first time. Republicans are passing mystery meat because they don't dare level with the American people about the blood price of their precious tax cuts for the rich.
posted by Gelatin at 7:18 AM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
Sorry if this has been covered already, but: would a CBO score still be tallied and released afterward, even if this vote passes today?
Yes - the Senate can't proceed under reconciliation without it, I believe.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:26 AM on May 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
Yes - the Senate can't proceed under reconciliation without it, I believe.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:26 AM on May 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
But that is why I'm extra worried about "ex-Goldman Sachs" ads in New Jersey. And I'm still kind of worred about Phil Murphy as a candidate
You and a lot of people- 52 percent of Democratic voters remain undecided on whom they'll support in the Democratic primary for NJ governor. I'm part of that group myself.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:26 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
You and a lot of people- 52 percent of Democratic voters remain undecided on whom they'll support in the Democratic primary for NJ governor. I'm part of that group myself.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:26 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm sure the CBO will still work on this. The Senate will want to know, anyway.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 7:27 AM on May 4, 2017
posted by Huffy Puffy at 7:27 AM on May 4, 2017
Rep. Elise Stefanik is also a yes. (R-NY) My rage for women voting yes is unbelievable at this moment.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:33 AM on May 4, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:33 AM on May 4, 2017 [24 favorites]
They claim to have the votes now.
Well, bully for them. Trump and the Republicans get their so-called "win," and House Republicans can claim, once again, that they voted to "repeal and replace" Obamacare.
All of this, of course, is nothing but a necessary precursor to the Republicans' real goal of a massive tax cut for the rich. It goes without saying that none of the hypocritical shenanigans, from the lack of the CBO score to outright bribes on the house floor -- again -- will faze Republican voters. But the Republicans know they are playing with fire in taking Americans' health care away, so many of them probably just signed their political death warrants with this vote come the 2018 election.
And while the Democrats won't be able to undo the damage as long as Trump is in the White House, taking back either chamber gets them subpoena power, which will not benefit Republicans at all in 2020.
posted by Gelatin at 7:37 AM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
Well, bully for them. Trump and the Republicans get their so-called "win," and House Republicans can claim, once again, that they voted to "repeal and replace" Obamacare.
All of this, of course, is nothing but a necessary precursor to the Republicans' real goal of a massive tax cut for the rich. It goes without saying that none of the hypocritical shenanigans, from the lack of the CBO score to outright bribes on the house floor -- again -- will faze Republican voters. But the Republicans know they are playing with fire in taking Americans' health care away, so many of them probably just signed their political death warrants with this vote come the 2018 election.
And while the Democrats won't be able to undo the damage as long as Trump is in the White House, taking back either chamber gets them subpoena power, which will not benefit Republicans at all in 2020.
posted by Gelatin at 7:37 AM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
I don't think "compassionate conservatism" was ever actually a thing, but I don't see how anyone who did believe in it could retain that belief after this effort to jam as much cruelty and suffering as possible into a single piece of legislation. Nobody who has even a passing familiarity with our healthcare system can honestly believe that anything in this bill helps anyone get better care. This is about nothing other than the political victory of rolling back the signature accomplishment of a President none of them thought was legitimate, and at least for some (as evidenced by the Mo Brooks quote), inflicting as much harm as possible on people they don't believe have lived their lives in a way that deserves compassion.
Fuck. These. Fucking. Assholes.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:37 AM on May 4, 2017 [21 favorites]
Fuck. These. Fucking. Assholes.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:37 AM on May 4, 2017 [21 favorites]
[This.is.a.fuck.gif]
posted by Fezboy! at 7:38 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Fezboy! at 7:38 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Elise Stefanik
Stefanik made her bones as an aide in the W whitehouse. A traitor to her generation, if you ask me. But I'm especially bitter because the media market here covers at least 3 congressional districts so I have to see her stupid campaign ads but don't get to vote against her.
posted by dis_integration at 7:38 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
Stefanik made her bones as an aide in the W whitehouse. A traitor to her generation, if you ask me. But I'm especially bitter because the media market here covers at least 3 congressional districts so I have to see her stupid campaign ads but don't get to vote against her.
posted by dis_integration at 7:38 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
Rep. Elise Stefanik is also a yes. (R-NY)
I know Hamilton lyrics have gone out of fashion, but "What did they say to you to get you to sell New York City down the river?" seems appropriate.
posted by Gelatin at 7:39 AM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
I know Hamilton lyrics have gone out of fashion, but "What did they say to you to get you to sell New York City down the river?" seems appropriate.
posted by Gelatin at 7:39 AM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
I know Hamilton lyrics have gone out of fashion,
Weehawken. Dawn.
Guns, drawn.
posted by entropicamericana at 7:41 AM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
Weehawken. Dawn.
Guns, drawn.
posted by entropicamericana at 7:41 AM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
I know Hamilton lyrics have gone out of fashion, but "What did they say to you to get you to sell New York City down the river?" seems appropriate.
I think she's from upstate, but she was born in 1984. She's 32 or 33 years old. Come on, lady.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:41 AM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
I think she's from upstate, but she was born in 1984. She's 32 or 33 years old. Come on, lady.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:41 AM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
Bah. Can't get through to my "undecided" Republican rep at his DC Office ("all circuits are busy") his district office ("beep beep beep") or via Resistbot fax ("Message not delivered after 4 attempts.")
I mean, it's good that he's being flooded with calls, but I want to give him a piece of MY mind.
Also, it looks like we are going to miss the deadline to apply for a permit for an event on June 3rd, so there won't be a local March for Truth for me to attend after all.
Feeling pretty frustrated right now!
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:42 AM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
I mean, it's good that he's being flooded with calls, but I want to give him a piece of MY mind.
Also, it looks like we are going to miss the deadline to apply for a permit for an event on June 3rd, so there won't be a local March for Truth for me to attend after all.
Feeling pretty frustrated right now!
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:42 AM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
From that WaPo article about Trump and the Russia probe:
"The timing of his attack seemed somewhat self-defeating."
posted by aspersioncast at 7:44 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
"The timing of his attack seemed somewhat self-defeating."
posted by aspersioncast at 7:44 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
According to Greg Sargent (WaPo), a Dem aide says the CBO score could be released as early as next week.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:46 AM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 7:46 AM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
Congressional exemption from GOP healthcare plan to be addressed separately: As Republicans rush to vote on their latest ObamaCare repeal-and-replace plan, it appears to still include an item exempting members of Congress and their staffs from losing the healthcare bill's popular provisions.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:54 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:54 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
@NateSilver538
Academic studies found that Dem. incumbents who voted for Obamacare lost 10-15 points of vote margin in the 2010 midterms. A massive effect.
- So if you were a Democratic incumbent poised to cruise to re-election by 11 points, and you voted for Obamacare, you probably lost.
- And although Obamacare was an unpopular bill, the AHCA is really, really, REALLY unpopular.
posted by chris24 at 7:56 AM on May 4, 2017 [11 favorites]
Academic studies found that Dem. incumbents who voted for Obamacare lost 10-15 points of vote margin in the 2010 midterms. A massive effect.
- So if you were a Democratic incumbent poised to cruise to re-election by 11 points, and you voted for Obamacare, you probably lost.
- And although Obamacare was an unpopular bill, the AHCA is really, really, REALLY unpopular.
posted by chris24 at 7:56 AM on May 4, 2017 [11 favorites]
If you're having trouble getting through to your rep, a friend of mine showed me this app the other night that might help. It's a chat bot that makes it easy to fax your rep via text messages: https://resistbot.io/
You just text resist to 50409 and it prompts you through the rest.
posted by antinomia at 7:57 AM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
You just text resist to 50409 and it prompts you through the rest.
posted by antinomia at 7:57 AM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
Can someone provide a link that details exactly what exemptions Congress is supposedly giving themselves? It never made sense to me when my conservative Facebook acquaintances would accuse Congress of exempting themselves from Obamacare (exempt from what? The individual mandate? I guarantee every member of Congress has healthcare), and it makes even less sense when I hear they are effectively exempting themselves from the *repeal* of Obamacare provisions. What exactly does that mean? I scanned the article roomthreeseventeen linked and it doesn't specify.
posted by Roommate at 7:58 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Roommate at 7:58 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
The (fix for the) exemption for members of Congress and their staffs appears to be covered by HR 2192, which is the other bill under this rule. Hard to tell from the title, as it's a triple negative.
Congress people get their insurance on the DC exchange, which isn't a state and so can't get a waiver. Also, this means that they're not affected if their state opts out (not as sure about their local staff).
posted by Huffy Puffy at 8:00 AM on May 4, 2017
Congress people get their insurance on the DC exchange, which isn't a state and so can't get a waiver. Also, this means that they're not affected if their state opts out (not as sure about their local staff).
posted by Huffy Puffy at 8:00 AM on May 4, 2017
As far as I understand, the new bill (*spit*) says that states can choose to get rid of the essential health benefits if they want. But because DC isn't technically a state, the way it is written means DC will still offer all these benefits and not be able to yank them, and Congress gets their health care through the DC exchanges.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:02 AM on May 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:02 AM on May 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
I know Hamilton lyrics have gone out of fashion,
It seems the system has lost all compassion
And lots of faces today are ashen -
So I say whatever, man. Indulge your passion!
posted by nubs at 8:02 AM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
It seems the system has lost all compassion
And lots of faces today are ashen -
So I say whatever, man. Indulge your passion!
posted by nubs at 8:02 AM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
Rex Tillerson: 'America first' means divorcing our policy from our values (The Guardian, March 3, 2017) -- Speech describes ‘obstacles’ to national security interests, but former official says it shows secretary of state is ‘clueless’
“I think it is really important that all of us understand the difference between policy and values,” the secretary of state, a former oil executive, said as part of what he described as an “overarching view” on Trump’s “America first” mantra.posted by filthy light thief at 8:05 AM on May 4, 2017 [30 favorites]
“Our values around freedom, human dignity, the way people are treated – those are our values. Those are not our policies.
“In some circumstances, if you condition our national security efforts on someone adopting our values, we probably can’t achieve our national security goals,” Tillerson said. “If we condition too heavily that others just adopt this value we have come to over a long history of our own, it really creates obstacles to our ability to advance on our national security interests our economic interests.”
Although Tillerson stressed that “it doesn’t mean we leave those values on the sidelines”, and said that while policies changed, “our values never change”, the speech revived concerns first raised when he was nominated for the job, that he would approach US foreign policy in the same way he ran ExxonMobil.
Tillerson’s comments drew a scathing response from former US state department officials.
“This is the most clueless speech given by a secretary of state in my lifetime,” said Tom Malinowski, former assistant secretary of state for democracy, human rights, and labour. “Clueless of what came before him, and of how US foreign policy has changed in the post-cold war era; clueless about what the world expects of America, including that we defend universal values and norms; clueless about what the people he is supposed to lead actually do and the harm being done to their mission and morale by by his cluelessness.
“The speech was like being told the amputation of your limbs will be good for you by a surgeon who skipped medical school,” Malinowski added.
John Kirby, the state department’s former spokesman tweeted: “Divorcing our interests from our values in foreign policy is like trying to plant cut flowers.”
The whole exemption thing is weird - don't people get insurance where they live, not where they work, anyway?
posted by corb at 8:09 AM on May 4, 2017
posted by corb at 8:09 AM on May 4, 2017
The whole exemption thing is weird - don't people get insurance where they live, not where they work, anyway?
I don't know the percentages, but I assume most people get insurance where they work, if they are working.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:11 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
I don't know the percentages, but I assume most people get insurance where they work, if they are working.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:11 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
@benwikler
If House GOP succeeds in passing #TrumpCare tonight (or any day), the public's IMMEDIATE response will massively shape what happens next. 1/
The biggest risk: the vote gets hailed as a breakthrough victory for Trump and the GOP, praised by conservative groups... boom, momentum. 2/
It will be tempting for activists to immediately swing their focus over to pressuring the Senate. Don't do it. Job one is BLOWBACK. 3/
Most of all, swing Senators will be watching to see what kind of political price GOP reps pay for voting to uninsure their constituents. 4/
Citizens' jobs will be to make clear that voting for AHCA is politically toxic. Career suicide. A highly visible, public firestorm. Rage. 5/
If the House passes TrumpCare, every Republican member of Congress has to feel like they're walking into a political buzz saw. 6/
Their phones should ring off the hook. Their district offices should be jammed. Town halls? Furious overflow crowds, chanting "SHAME." 7/
The intensity and visibility of response to the House vote will define the news cycle and the Senate's willingness to touch this thing. 8/
So—if we lose the vote, don't mourn. Fight. Crucify the House. Only after pulverizing the House GOP, turn, eyes ablaze, to the Senate. 9/9
posted by chris24 at 8:12 AM on May 4, 2017 [83 favorites]
If House GOP succeeds in passing #TrumpCare tonight (or any day), the public's IMMEDIATE response will massively shape what happens next. 1/
The biggest risk: the vote gets hailed as a breakthrough victory for Trump and the GOP, praised by conservative groups... boom, momentum. 2/
It will be tempting for activists to immediately swing their focus over to pressuring the Senate. Don't do it. Job one is BLOWBACK. 3/
Most of all, swing Senators will be watching to see what kind of political price GOP reps pay for voting to uninsure their constituents. 4/
Citizens' jobs will be to make clear that voting for AHCA is politically toxic. Career suicide. A highly visible, public firestorm. Rage. 5/
If the House passes TrumpCare, every Republican member of Congress has to feel like they're walking into a political buzz saw. 6/
Their phones should ring off the hook. Their district offices should be jammed. Town halls? Furious overflow crowds, chanting "SHAME." 7/
The intensity and visibility of response to the House vote will define the news cycle and the Senate's willingness to touch this thing. 8/
So—if we lose the vote, don't mourn. Fight. Crucify the House. Only after pulverizing the House GOP, turn, eyes ablaze, to the Senate. 9/9
posted by chris24 at 8:12 AM on May 4, 2017 [83 favorites]
I don't know the percentages, but I assume most people get insurance where they work, if they are working.
Yeah, but Congresspeople are getting their insurance through an exchange, which means it's on the individual market. When you buy your own policy, that generally depends on the state you live in and not the one you work in.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:14 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yeah, but Congresspeople are getting their insurance through an exchange, which means it's on the individual market. When you buy your own policy, that generally depends on the state you live in and not the one you work in.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:14 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
The whole exemption thing is weird - don't people get insurance where they live, not where they work, anyway?
I don't know the percentages, but I assume most people get insurance where they work, if they are working
56% of non-elderly people are insured through work.
posted by chris24 at 8:15 AM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
I don't know the percentages, but I assume most people get insurance where they work, if they are working
56% of non-elderly people are insured through work.
posted by chris24 at 8:15 AM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
MCs can buy plans through DC and get a subsidy from the feds equal to the value of federal health care benefits, or back home and eat the whole cost.
As far as I understand, the new bill (*spit*) says that states can choose to get rid of the essential health benefits if they want. But because DC isn't technically a state, the way it is written means DC will still offer all these benefits and not be able to yank them, and Congress gets their health care through the DC exchanges.
It's worse than that. The original bill said that your state could waive the essential health care benefits... but not from MCs. More or less everyone else in the state (or DC) loses ACA protections, but MCs keep them.
(Apparently this is actually there to keep the bill reconcilable in the Senate, where a bill that affects MCs would "have to" get referred to a different committee and not be reconcilable? I am not Sarah Binder or Greg Koger.)
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:17 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
As far as I understand, the new bill (*spit*) says that states can choose to get rid of the essential health benefits if they want. But because DC isn't technically a state, the way it is written means DC will still offer all these benefits and not be able to yank them, and Congress gets their health care through the DC exchanges.
It's worse than that. The original bill said that your state could waive the essential health care benefits... but not from MCs. More or less everyone else in the state (or DC) loses ACA protections, but MCs keep them.
(Apparently this is actually there to keep the bill reconcilable in the Senate, where a bill that affects MCs would "have to" get referred to a different committee and not be reconcilable? I am not Sarah Binder or Greg Koger.)
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:17 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
The whole reason they are on the D.C. exchange in the first place was to head off the whole "ZOMG THEY R EXEMPTING THEMSELVES FROM OBAMACARE!1! GOLD PLATED FEDERAL BENEFITS!" thing.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 8:17 AM on May 4, 2017
posted by Huffy Puffy at 8:17 AM on May 4, 2017
I just sent the following fax to awful NY congressperson Elise Stefanik:
Dear Ms. Stefanik,
If you vote to repeal the ACA, and the bill passes, millions of people who would otherwise have received medical care will needlessly suffer and die. Can you please let me know where you can be reached after you are voted out of office for being a moral monster and shaming New York for a generation? I want to make sure that I have a forwarding address to which I can send the obituaries of the friends I lose as a result of your indefensible choices.
Regards,
posted by prefpara at 8:19 AM on May 4, 2017 [114 favorites]
Dear Ms. Stefanik,
If you vote to repeal the ACA, and the bill passes, millions of people who would otherwise have received medical care will needlessly suffer and die. Can you please let me know where you can be reached after you are voted out of office for being a moral monster and shaming New York for a generation? I want to make sure that I have a forwarding address to which I can send the obituaries of the friends I lose as a result of your indefensible choices.
Regards,
posted by prefpara at 8:19 AM on May 4, 2017 [114 favorites]
Then I called Faso's office and got through after a few tries. I asked him the same question. The staffer said he didn't have an answer (lol) so I asked him to just pass it along and to tell Faso that the blood would be on his hands.
posted by prefpara at 8:21 AM on May 4, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by prefpara at 8:21 AM on May 4, 2017 [28 favorites]
Prefpara - stealing and using. Immediately.
posted by Sophie1 at 8:21 AM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Sophie1 at 8:21 AM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
Congress people get their insurance on the DC exchange, which isn't a state and so can't get a waiver.
This is not correct. I posted an explanation to a question on AskMefi which I will repost here.
First off, the idea that DC is different because it isn't a state is not true. For the purposes of the ACA, DC is treated just like a state. DC is governed by a mayor and 13-member council that functions similarly to a state government with governor and legislature. Congress can overrule the decisions of the DC government, but otherwise they operate like a state government. So there is nothing preventing DC from seeking an waiver just like any other state, just that it is unlikely for the Democrat dominated council to do so.
As examples of this local power, the DC council voted to implement their own ACA exchange and also to implement Medicaid expansion just like many other states.
Members of congress and their staff can buy their insurance on the DC Health Link exchange. However, they don't buy from the individual exchange like ordinary citizens of DC. They buy their insurance from the Small Business Health Options Program (SHOP) which was designed by ACA to help small businesses buy insurance for their employees. So they are treating Congress as a small business for ACA purposes. This was so they they could keep their federal "employer contribution" which pays up to 75% of their premiums.
Congress and staff buy their insurance from the DC exchange but from a different portion of the exchange from ordinary folks in DC, their "employer's" small business menu of plans.
Now, the MacArthur amendment allows states to get waivers for Obamacare requirements such as pre-existing conditions and essential benefits. For congress and staff in DC, this isn't an issue because there is no way that Democrat DC officials are going to ask for a waiver. But some members of congress and their staff get their Obamacare insurance through exchanges in their home states which in many cases, that is Republican states, might ask for a waiver.
The MacArthur amendment exempted congress and staff from these possible waivers in their home states. Republicans wanted to make sure that they could keep Obamacare exactly as passed in 2010 but only for themselves.
In other words, in reality, Republicans think Obamacare is just great for themselves at the very same time they say it is terrible and want to repeal it for everyone else.
Republicans have said they will be removing their special exemption in a separate now that it has been exposed to the public, but that remains to be seen. The exemption still exists in the bill they are voting on today.
posted by JackFlash at 8:28 AM on May 4, 2017 [31 favorites]
This is not correct. I posted an explanation to a question on AskMefi which I will repost here.
First off, the idea that DC is different because it isn't a state is not true. For the purposes of the ACA, DC is treated just like a state. DC is governed by a mayor and 13-member council that functions similarly to a state government with governor and legislature. Congress can overrule the decisions of the DC government, but otherwise they operate like a state government. So there is nothing preventing DC from seeking an waiver just like any other state, just that it is unlikely for the Democrat dominated council to do so.
As examples of this local power, the DC council voted to implement their own ACA exchange and also to implement Medicaid expansion just like many other states.
Members of congress and their staff can buy their insurance on the DC Health Link exchange. However, they don't buy from the individual exchange like ordinary citizens of DC. They buy their insurance from the Small Business Health Options Program (SHOP) which was designed by ACA to help small businesses buy insurance for their employees. So they are treating Congress as a small business for ACA purposes. This was so they they could keep their federal "employer contribution" which pays up to 75% of their premiums.
Congress and staff buy their insurance from the DC exchange but from a different portion of the exchange from ordinary folks in DC, their "employer's" small business menu of plans.
Now, the MacArthur amendment allows states to get waivers for Obamacare requirements such as pre-existing conditions and essential benefits. For congress and staff in DC, this isn't an issue because there is no way that Democrat DC officials are going to ask for a waiver. But some members of congress and their staff get their Obamacare insurance through exchanges in their home states which in many cases, that is Republican states, might ask for a waiver.
The MacArthur amendment exempted congress and staff from these possible waivers in their home states. Republicans wanted to make sure that they could keep Obamacare exactly as passed in 2010 but only for themselves.
In other words, in reality, Republicans think Obamacare is just great for themselves at the very same time they say it is terrible and want to repeal it for everyone else.
Republicans have said they will be removing their special exemption in a separate now that it has been exposed to the public, but that remains to be seen. The exemption still exists in the bill they are voting on today.
posted by JackFlash at 8:28 AM on May 4, 2017 [31 favorites]
I think the exemption bill is what's on the House floor right now, but I couldn't stand to listen to the debate long enough to be sure.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 8:30 AM on May 4, 2017
posted by Huffy Puffy at 8:30 AM on May 4, 2017
The MacArthur amendment exempted congress and staff from these possible waivers in their home states.
Oh, well that should go over really well with their voters.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:31 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Oh, well that should go over really well with their voters.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:31 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
BBC World News just had this weird lady who took the pro-Trumpcare position in a discussion, who claimed to be from NY but was videoconferencing from Washington DC, who stated both that under Obamacare her premiums had gone up to more than $2000 per month in 2017, but then later on said that she didn't have insurance under Obamacare. She also said that the $2000-per-month premium meant that by the end of 2017 she "would be able to buy a small car", so I guess she's never owned a used car. (But even the low end of new cars go well below $24k, right? Not that it matters really if the entire story is alternative facts.)
I think the interviewer gave her first name as "Mika"? I wonder if she's a personal friend of Trump's.
posted by XMLicious at 8:33 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think the interviewer gave her first name as "Mika"? I wonder if she's a personal friend of Trump's.
posted by XMLicious at 8:33 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
> Oh, well that should go over really well with their voters.
Or it would if they ever encountered those voters.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:34 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Or it would if they ever encountered those voters.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:34 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Congress people have a choice of buying their health insurance from their home state exchange or the DC Health Link exchange. Almost all of them use the DC exchange.
Since the DC exchange is directed by the Democratic DC council, it is unlikely that they would ever seek a waiver to make health insurance worse. So whether or not the exemption bill passes or not, Republican people in Congress know they will not be affected.
However, that isn't the case for their local staff in their home state offices. They have to get their insurance from their state exchange. So in other words, Republicans are going to pass this fig leaf to remove the exemption for themselves, but they will be safe since DC Democrats will protect them. But they are throwing their own staff back home under the bus to make themselves look good.
Just one more example of the depravity of Republicans.
posted by JackFlash at 8:37 AM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
Since the DC exchange is directed by the Democratic DC council, it is unlikely that they would ever seek a waiver to make health insurance worse. So whether or not the exemption bill passes or not, Republican people in Congress know they will not be affected.
However, that isn't the case for their local staff in their home state offices. They have to get their insurance from their state exchange. So in other words, Republicans are going to pass this fig leaf to remove the exemption for themselves, but they will be safe since DC Democrats will protect them. But they are throwing their own staff back home under the bus to make themselves look good.
Just one more example of the depravity of Republicans.
posted by JackFlash at 8:37 AM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
Suggestion from this comment on reddit:
10) My 2¢: You want to spook the R's voting yes today? Put up a single fundraising page targeting them, raise many millions before the vote.
posted by yoga at 8:38 AM on May 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
10) My 2¢: You want to spook the R's voting yes today? Put up a single fundraising page targeting them, raise many millions before the vote.
posted by yoga at 8:38 AM on May 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
According to AvalereHealth Consulting out of 2.2 million people with pre-existing conditions in the US, only 600,000 will be eligible for coverage.
posted by Sophie1 at 8:38 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Sophie1 at 8:38 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
DC Democrats should ask for a waiver specific only to members of congress. If Republicans are taking healthcare from everyone else, take it from them.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:39 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:39 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
I just will never understand how anyone could value human lives less than money. I mean, it's virtually impossible for anyone to exist within this late capitalist system of ours without making financial decisions that directly or indirectly worsen other people's lives, but Republican lawmakers continually *go out of their way* to devalue human lives in favour of making money for themselves and/or other people higher up the ladder than they are (who really don't even need it). And, shit, I don't even really *like* people, but I still want the best outcomes possible for the largest number of people given the resources available.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:46 AM on May 4, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:46 AM on May 4, 2017 [19 favorites]
They're bad people Brent
posted by theodolite at 8:49 AM on May 4, 2017 [44 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 8:49 AM on May 4, 2017 [44 favorites]
Trump, in announcing his "religious liberty" EO: "We will not allow people of faith to be targeted, bullied or silenced anymore."
OH REALLY
posted by marshmallow peep at 8:50 AM on May 4, 2017 [33 favorites]
OH REALLY
posted by marshmallow peep at 8:50 AM on May 4, 2017 [33 favorites]
They can totally receive death threats, though.
posted by dinty_moore at 8:52 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by dinty_moore at 8:52 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's about time somebody stuck up for Christians. American Christians. White American Christians. White male American Christians. White male American evangelical Christians. Preferably rich.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:52 AM on May 4, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:52 AM on May 4, 2017 [22 favorites]
They're bad people enabled by ignorant people.
And I don't mean "ignorance" as in "stupid" I mean it as in "lacking knowledge and experience". A lot of people (like my mom) just assume that all the bad shit that this bill will actually do, no one will really allow to happen. Someone can't get health coverage because they were a DV victim? Oh, well, that won't really happen, that's monstrous, no one would do that!
Unless you know personally someone that has happened to, it's way too easy to just tell yourself that we won't really allow people to die.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:52 AM on May 4, 2017 [17 favorites]
And I don't mean "ignorance" as in "stupid" I mean it as in "lacking knowledge and experience". A lot of people (like my mom) just assume that all the bad shit that this bill will actually do, no one will really allow to happen. Someone can't get health coverage because they were a DV victim? Oh, well, that won't really happen, that's monstrous, no one would do that!
Unless you know personally someone that has happened to, it's way too easy to just tell yourself that we won't really allow people to die.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:52 AM on May 4, 2017 [17 favorites]
Oh FFS.
On a scale of 1-10, how scared of this bill should I be?
And when the hell is 2018 going to fucking get here
posted by schadenfrau at 8:52 AM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
On a scale of 1-10, how scared of this bill should I be?
And when the hell is 2018 going to fucking get here
posted by schadenfrau at 8:52 AM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
"We will not allow people of faith to be targeted, bullied or silenced anymore." *
* as long as that faith is Christian. For all others, target, bully and silence away.
posted by martin q blank at 8:53 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
* as long as that faith is Christian. For all others, target, bully and silence away.
posted by martin q blank at 8:53 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
@aterkel: Man who called for Muslim ban is boasting about tolerance and acceptance for people of faith
posted by zombieflanders at 8:54 AM on May 4, 2017 [31 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 8:54 AM on May 4, 2017 [31 favorites]
Also, not for nothing, but if I wanted to torpedo this I feel like I might leak a sample attack ad? No?
How is voting for something like this not immediate electoral death for all remaining GOP moderates?
posted by schadenfrau at 8:54 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
How is voting for something like this not immediate electoral death for all remaining GOP moderates?
posted by schadenfrau at 8:54 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
There are no GOP moderates. There are some who might be slightly less depraved, and will blow a lot of smoke up voters' asses about their noble struggle, but vote for the horrible stuff anyway.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:57 AM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 8:57 AM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
Nonsense! This is a Judeo-Christian* nation.
* For selected values of "Jewish" **
** Jesus won't come back until our Hebrew honeypot gets annihilated so, like, stand over here on the red X, guys
posted by delfin at 8:57 AM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
* For selected values of "Jewish" **
** Jesus won't come back until our Hebrew honeypot gets annihilated so, like, stand over here on the red X, guys
posted by delfin at 8:57 AM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
Why do people keep talking about Republican moderates as though they're a real thing?
posted by Shutter at 8:57 AM on May 4, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by Shutter at 8:57 AM on May 4, 2017 [17 favorites]
So in this latest ridiculous EO, we're not going to be seeing progressive churches punished for participating in politics, right? And if it's against your religion to to serve people who support stealing healthcare, treating LGBTQ+ folks as subhuman, leaving the homeless to starve, and enacting racist policies, denying them service is allowed too, right?
So tired that "religious" is taken automatically to mean Radical Reactionary Christianity in this country and that those "ethics" and "values" are worth promoting.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:58 AM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
So tired that "religious" is taken automatically to mean Radical Reactionary Christianity in this country and that those "ethics" and "values" are worth promoting.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:58 AM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
Regarding this EO, how much direct influence does the President actually have over IRS enforcement priorities? I thought after Nixon they gave the IRS a bit of independence from Presidential pressure?
posted by notyou at 9:00 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by notyou at 9:00 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's about time somebody stuck up for Christians. American Christians. White American Christians. White male American Christians. White male American evangelical Christians. Preferably rich.
Reformed Virginian Baptist Church of 1803 or New Reformed West Virginian Baptist Church of 1812?
posted by scalefree at 9:03 AM on May 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
Reformed Virginian Baptist Church of 1803 or New Reformed West Virginian Baptist Church of 1812?
posted by scalefree at 9:03 AM on May 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
It's worse than that. The original bill said that your state could waive the essential health care benefits... but not from MCs. More or less everyone else in the state (or DC) loses ACA protections, but MCs keep them.
If they want this turkey to fly, they need to find a mechanism that lets state legislators exempt themselves from rollbacks on essential services that they themselves implement. They'll stampede to vote to ruin it for everyone else.
posted by puddledork at 9:03 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
If they want this turkey to fly, they need to find a mechanism that lets state legislators exempt themselves from rollbacks on essential services that they themselves implement. They'll stampede to vote to ruin it for everyone else.
posted by puddledork at 9:03 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Republican moderates do exist. They are either a) willfully blind to their party's excesses, b) aware but disdainful of the crazies and believing that crazies don't run the party, c) myopic to anyone's fortunes but their own, or d) only motivated by extreme dangers to the republic, like inappropriately administrated email servers.
posted by delfin at 9:04 AM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by delfin at 9:04 AM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
"We will not allow people of faith to be targeted, bullied or silenced anymore." *
* as long as that faith is Christian. For all others, target, bully and silence away.
There is a large ribbon of "Islam isn't a faith, it's a political system that only claims to be a faith" running through the rancid pint of All-American Hate ice cream.
posted by Etrigan at 9:04 AM on May 4, 2017 [18 favorites]
* as long as that faith is Christian. For all others, target, bully and silence away.
There is a large ribbon of "Islam isn't a faith, it's a political system that only claims to be a faith" running through the rancid pint of All-American Hate ice cream.
posted by Etrigan at 9:04 AM on May 4, 2017 [18 favorites]
Regarding this EO, how much direct influence does the President actually have over IRS enforcement priorities? I thought after Nixon they gave the IRS a bit of independence from Presidential pressure?
The IRS doesn't have any money or staff for enforcement. Of known tax evaders, big companies, churches, Donald Trump, or anyone else. IRS Comm'r Koskinen has been begging big companies to lobby for more enforcement staff because it's gotten so bad.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:05 AM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
The IRS doesn't have any money or staff for enforcement. Of known tax evaders, big companies, churches, Donald Trump, or anyone else. IRS Comm'r Koskinen has been begging big companies to lobby for more enforcement staff because it's gotten so bad.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:05 AM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
> * as long as that faith is Christian. For all others, target, bully and silence away.
"I’m not usually religious, but one time, I was on a plane that was going through some really frightening and violent turbulence. So, I immediately began taking rights away from gay people." – Dan Mintz
posted by tonycpsu at 9:07 AM on May 4, 2017 [55 favorites]
"I’m not usually religious, but one time, I was on a plane that was going through some really frightening and violent turbulence. So, I immediately began taking rights away from gay people." – Dan Mintz
posted by tonycpsu at 9:07 AM on May 4, 2017 [55 favorites]
There is a large ribbon of "Islam isn't a faith, it's a political system that only claims to be a faith" running through the rancid pint of All-American Hate ice cream.
These would be many of the same people saying "Christianity isn't a religion, it's a relationship". But hey, they'll take the win any way they can get it.
posted by scalefree at 9:07 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
These would be many of the same people saying "Christianity isn't a religion, it's a relationship". But hey, they'll take the win any way they can get it.
posted by scalefree at 9:07 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Ladies and Gentlemen, Justin "pre-existing condition" Chaffetz is in the House, ready to take away your healthcare [pic]
In this morning's GOP caucus meeting, they reportedly played the Rocky theme song (I've also seen reports it was "Eye of the Tiger") and Rep. McCarthy read Patton quotes as part of a "pep rally." As noted in that tweet, Rocky loses in the end.
And, thisisfine.gif:
In this morning's GOP caucus meeting, they reportedly played the Rocky theme song (I've also seen reports it was "Eye of the Tiger") and Rep. McCarthy read Patton quotes as part of a "pep rally." As noted in that tweet, Rocky loses in the end.
And, thisisfine.gif:
But inside the White House, senior administration officials say no one "really loves the legislation," in the words of one official. Trump has expressed misgivings — particularly over fears that people will lose health care and blame him. He has spoken more about blasting Obamacare than selling his own legislation, barely bringing up the new plan at a rally last Saturday night, and only at the very end of his speech.posted by zachlipton at 9:08 AM on May 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
Leadership aides have described the legislation more in practical terms — let's-get-it-done — than wow-this-is-good. White House officials have argued to lawmakers that the bill will look totally different in the Senate and they just need political momentum. "Everyone knows this won't be the final product," one senior administration official said. "So if you don't like something, it's fine."
"We have to have a win on this," this official said. "We don't have a choice."
On the need for community-based access to contraception and societal triage for the denial of healthcare, here's a recent interview with radical organizer/physician
We are in a chronic crisis and as far as health is concerned it is a horrific time. I think we’re going to see the dismantling of people’s access to health care. This is a crucial time when we should look at models like the Greek solidarity clinics. When there’s an economic crisis, there must be pop-up clinics. The same with the Zapatistas creating their own healthcare systems, and Rojava, which had a decimated health care system and they tried to recreate it. The benefits of looking at these models is that because they lack resources they focus on primary care and preventative care. They advocate not just healthy diets and daily exercise, but mental health care. They mean to keep people healthy. In the US, we treat sick people and that is very resource intensive.posted by spamandkimchi at 9:08 AM on May 4, 2017 [21 favorites]
Another example is the GynePunks in Barcelona, they essentially do do-it-yourself gynecological exams and create their own speculums for lab testing, because those services are not around. You look at the war on Planned Parenthood, it is not hard to imagine how a woman’s ability to get an abortion is being impacted and at some point, our clinics are going to need underground services again. How do we develop that capacity? This is something we must think about.
There is a large ribbon of "Islam isn't a faith, it's a political system that only claims to be a faith" running through the rancid pint of All-American Hate ice cream.
Sounds a lot like the pussy-grabber's mirror--the attack you make is what you secretly know yourself to be. The cargo-cult Christianity that props up the Groupies of Putin is a major part of why I'm an Excommunicated Cardinal.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:09 AM on May 4, 2017 [17 favorites]
Sounds a lot like the pussy-grabber's mirror--the attack you make is what you secretly know yourself to be. The cargo-cult Christianity that props up the Groupies of Putin is a major part of why I'm an Excommunicated Cardinal.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:09 AM on May 4, 2017 [17 favorites]
Why do people keep talking about Republican moderates as though they're a real thing?
This AHCA bill really puts the lie to the existence of "moderate Republicans." Last month so-called "moderates" said they would not vote for a bill that was so radical and cruel. So they made the bill worse to appeal to the wacko Freedom Caucus, and now the so-called "moderates" are fine with it. Now that it is worse and more cruel.
The phrase "Republican moderates" should only ever be used as sarcasm. They are all Trump enablers. And the so-called NeverTrumpers voted for them.
posted by JackFlash at 9:10 AM on May 4, 2017 [48 favorites]
This AHCA bill really puts the lie to the existence of "moderate Republicans." Last month so-called "moderates" said they would not vote for a bill that was so radical and cruel. So they made the bill worse to appeal to the wacko Freedom Caucus, and now the so-called "moderates" are fine with it. Now that it is worse and more cruel.
The phrase "Republican moderates" should only ever be used as sarcasm. They are all Trump enablers. And the so-called NeverTrumpers voted for them.
posted by JackFlash at 9:10 AM on May 4, 2017 [48 favorites]
Speaking of religion:
Vatican confirms Trump will meet Pope Francis on May 24.
I feel so sorry for the Pope.
posted by zachlipton at 9:10 AM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
Vatican confirms Trump will meet Pope Francis on May 24.
I feel so sorry for the Pope.
posted by zachlipton at 9:10 AM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
There is a large ribbon of "Islam isn't a faith, it's a political system that only claims to be a faith" running through the rancid pint of All-American Hate ice cream.
It's always projection with these people.
posted by Gelatin at 9:11 AM on May 4, 2017 [14 favorites]
It's always projection with these people.
posted by Gelatin at 9:11 AM on May 4, 2017 [14 favorites]
Also relevant re: what you do when the healthcare system doesn't work for huge swaths of your community, Alondra Nelson's book Body and Soul: The Black Panther Party and the Fight Against Medical Discrimination:
Building on a long tradition of medical self-sufficiency among African Americans, the Panthers’ People’s Free Medical Clinics administered basic preventive care, tested for lead poisoning and hypertension, and helped with housing, employment, and social services. In 1971, the party launched a campaign to address sickle-cell anemia. In addition to establishing screening programs and educational outreach efforts, it exposed the racial biases of the medical system that had largely ignored sickle-cell anemiaposted by spamandkimchi at 9:11 AM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
You look at the war on Planned Parenthood, it is not hard to imagine how a woman’s ability to get an abortion is being impacted and at some point, our clinics are going to need underground services again.
Completely unrelated random fact of the day: Vets can prescribe misoprostol for dog ulcers.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:12 AM on May 4, 2017 [55 favorites]
Completely unrelated random fact of the day: Vets can prescribe misoprostol for dog ulcers.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:12 AM on May 4, 2017 [55 favorites]
Watching the House live on FB I'm struck by the near unanimity of emojis scrolling across the bottom. Overall Angry outnumbers Thumbs-up by more than 50 to 1, except when a vocal Democrat starts ripping into the bill when it switches to all Hearts.
posted by scalefree at 9:18 AM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 9:18 AM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
Meanwhile, back at the ranch: House panel approves GOP Dodd-Frank rewrite
posted by zachlipton at 9:18 AM on May 4, 2017 [18 favorites]
The House Financial Services Committee approved on Thursday a bill to repeal and rollback significant pieces of the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act.They're going to rip every damn thing Obama did to shreds.
The panel voted to send Chairman Jeb Hensarling’s (R-Texas) Financial CHOICE Act to the House floor 34 to 26, along party lines. The bill would accomplish much of long-term GOP goal: to revoke the expansive financial regulations passed under President Obama after the 2008 crisis, long protected by Democrats.
All panel Democrats voted against the bill, following more 24 hours of contentious debate dragged across three days. Republicans blocked several amendments offered by Democrats that would restore the key parts of Dodd-Frank stripped by the CHOICE Act.
posted by zachlipton at 9:18 AM on May 4, 2017 [18 favorites]
Completely unrelated random fact of the day: Vets can prescribe misoprostol for dog ulcers.
dude at the animal shelter: now you're SURE you're looking specifically for a dog with colitis, mr. murphy?
posted by murphy slaw at 9:19 AM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
dude at the animal shelter: now you're SURE you're looking specifically for a dog with colitis, mr. murphy?
posted by murphy slaw at 9:19 AM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
Huge day for religious liberty if you worship Mammon or Moloch
posted by theodolite at 9:19 AM on May 4, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 9:19 AM on May 4, 2017 [17 favorites]
or e) there just aren't enough of them.
According to Gallup, over 70% of "independents" consider themselves conservative or moderate, and 25% of Republicans call themselves moderates. Even if we take out the conservative "independents," that's a healthy chunk of people who are lying either to themselves or to pollsters.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:20 AM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
According to Gallup, over 70% of "independents" consider themselves conservative or moderate, and 25% of Republicans call themselves moderates. Even if we take out the conservative "independents," that's a healthy chunk of people who are lying either to themselves or to pollsters.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:20 AM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
@ericawerner
Martha McSally stood up in GOP conference meeting and said let's get this "fucking thing" done.
Yes, direct quote — per members and aides.
@daveweigel Retweeted Erica Werner
Her district went for Clinton over Trump by 5 points.
@KevinMKruse Retweeted Erica Werner
The enthusiasm with which many House Republicans are setting their careers on fire today is really impressive.
posted by chris24 at 9:20 AM on May 4, 2017 [30 favorites]
Martha McSally stood up in GOP conference meeting and said let's get this "fucking thing" done.
Yes, direct quote — per members and aides.
@daveweigel Retweeted Erica Werner
Her district went for Clinton over Trump by 5 points.
@KevinMKruse Retweeted Erica Werner
The enthusiasm with which many House Republicans are setting their careers on fire today is really impressive.
posted by chris24 at 9:20 AM on May 4, 2017 [30 favorites]
Meanwhile, back at the ranch: House panel approves GOP Dodd-Frank rewrite
The House Financial Services Committee approved on Thursday a bill to repeal and rollback significant pieces of the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act.
Republicans sure aren't acting as if they owe their political power anti-Wall-Street populism and "economic anxiety," are they?
posted by Gelatin at 9:22 AM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
The House Financial Services Committee approved on Thursday a bill to repeal and rollback significant pieces of the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act.
Republicans sure aren't acting as if they owe their political power anti-Wall-Street populism and "economic anxiety," are they?
posted by Gelatin at 9:22 AM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
Well, resistbot only messages senators on the first try.
I sent something anyway, then copy-pasted and edited my note for my R representative, which i posted through the contact form on his web page.
Thanks Excommunicated Cardinal (and others) for posting scripts to crib from.
not that it will do any good.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 9:23 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
I sent something anyway, then copy-pasted and edited my note for my R representative, which i posted through the contact form on his web page.
Thanks Excommunicated Cardinal (and others) for posting scripts to crib from.
not that it will do any good.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 9:23 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
You look at the war on Planned Parenthood, it is not hard to imagine how a woman’s ability to get an abortion is being impacted and at some point, our clinics are going to need underground services again.
The AHCA completely defunds Planned Parenthood for all services, not just abortion. And just to stick the knife in deeper, it prohibits poor people from using their Medicaid benefits to get any care at Planned Parenthood, not just abortions.
posted by JackFlash at 9:25 AM on May 4, 2017 [11 favorites]
The AHCA completely defunds Planned Parenthood for all services, not just abortion. And just to stick the knife in deeper, it prohibits poor people from using their Medicaid benefits to get any care at Planned Parenthood, not just abortions.
posted by JackFlash at 9:25 AM on May 4, 2017 [11 favorites]
@ericawerner
Martha McSally stood up in GOP conference meeting and said let's get this "fucking thing" done.
Yes, direct quote — per members and aides.
@daveweigel Retweeted Erica Werner
Her district went for Clinton over Trump by 5 points.
So she's presumably referring to her political career, there.
It's going to send the so-called "liberal media" to their fainting counches, of course, but Democrats need to start referring to Republican politicians -- with no phony exception for "moderates" -- as terrible, horrible, no-good, very bad people. People who would literally take food out of childrens' mouths.
posted by Gelatin at 9:26 AM on May 4, 2017 [17 favorites]
Martha McSally stood up in GOP conference meeting and said let's get this "fucking thing" done.
Yes, direct quote — per members and aides.
@daveweigel Retweeted Erica Werner
Her district went for Clinton over Trump by 5 points.
So she's presumably referring to her political career, there.
It's going to send the so-called "liberal media" to their fainting counches, of course, but Democrats need to start referring to Republican politicians -- with no phony exception for "moderates" -- as terrible, horrible, no-good, very bad people. People who would literally take food out of childrens' mouths.
posted by Gelatin at 9:26 AM on May 4, 2017 [17 favorites]
And after smudging the church/state boundary in domestic policy with today's EO, the White House plans to smudge the church/state boundary in foreign policy as well:
Trump plans first presidential overseas trip to Israel, Vatican and Saudi Arabia [WaPo]:
Trump plans first presidential overseas trip to Israel, Vatican and Saudi Arabia [WaPo]:
President Trump, on his first trip abroad, will travel later this month to Saudi Arabia, Israel and Rome in an effort to unite three of the world’s leading religious faiths in the common cause of fighting “intolerance,” terrorism and Iran, White House officials said Thursday.posted by Westringia F. at 9:26 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
(because holy wars have always been so successful in the past)
posted by Westringia F. at 9:29 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Westringia F. at 9:29 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
There is a lovely bird that wanders the shores of Great Salt Lake called the "marbled godwit." Not only is it handsomer, with a cooler name and more pleasant disposition than garbled fuckwit Jason Chaffetz, I'm almost certain it would better represent the people of his district at the national level.
Marbled Godwit for Utah-3!
(and also Chaffetz should spend the rest of his miserable life walking the shores of Salt Lake poking the mud for brine shrimp).
posted by aspersioncast at 9:30 AM on May 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
Marbled Godwit for Utah-3!
(and also Chaffetz should spend the rest of his miserable life walking the shores of Salt Lake poking the mud for brine shrimp).
posted by aspersioncast at 9:30 AM on May 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
Vatican confirms Trump will meet Pope Francis on May 24.
And when you’re a president, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab ’em by the Papacy. You can do anything.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:31 AM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
Oh FFS.
On a scale of 1-10, how scared of this bill should I be?
And when the hell is 2018 going to fucking get here
posted by schadenfrau at 11:52 AM on May 4 [has favorites −] Favorite added! [!]
House Republicans Are on the Cusp of Passing Their Health Care Bill
posted by INFJ at 9:31 AM on May 4, 2017
So tired that "religious" is taken automatically to mean Radical Reactionary Christianity in this country and that those "ethics" and "values" are worth promoting.
It would also seem to cover Scientology, Satan worship, and Jedis.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:31 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
It would also seem to cover Scientology, Satan worship, and Jedis.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:31 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
That's an interesting choice of "leading religious faiths" - I assume there will be no Sikh, Hindu, or Buddhist representatives?
posted by R a c h e l at 9:32 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by R a c h e l at 9:32 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Busy signal when I try to call my rep's DC number, voicemail at her local number. I hope it's a flood of angry messages.
posted by emjaybee at 9:35 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 9:35 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
It would also seem to cover Scientology, Satan worship, and Jedis.
Yes it would seem to. All the way up to the time they try to use it.
posted by scalefree at 9:38 AM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
Yes it would seem to. All the way up to the time they try to use it.
posted by scalefree at 9:38 AM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
Busy signal when I try to call my rep's DC number, voicemail at her local number.
As little as I value the parade of earnest "Trump voters weren't motivated by racism and misogyny, no sirree!" profiles the media has run in the months since the election, one theme I perceived was that Trump voters felt he listened to their concerns.
One them of the Democrats in upcoming elections should be "Whoever Republicans are listening to, it isn't you."
posted by Gelatin at 9:38 AM on May 4, 2017 [19 favorites]
As little as I value the parade of earnest "Trump voters weren't motivated by racism and misogyny, no sirree!" profiles the media has run in the months since the election, one theme I perceived was that Trump voters felt he listened to their concerns.
One them of the Democrats in upcoming elections should be "Whoever Republicans are listening to, it isn't you."
posted by Gelatin at 9:38 AM on May 4, 2017 [19 favorites]
To share a comment from Reddit:
A GOP rep voting yes today accepts all of these things when casting their vote:posted by INFJ at 9:39 AM on May 4, 2017 [67 favorites]
1) Tens of millions of people losing healthcare
2) Premiums and deductibles going up
3) Insurers being allowed to charge whatever they want for pre-existing conditions ($100k+ for cancer, $15k+ if you're pregnant, etc.)
4) Employers will be able to buy shitty plans with laughable lifetime limits, screwing their employees
5) Gigantic cuts to Medicaid
6) Cuts to Special Ed
7) They're voting for it without a CBO score (knowing that this bill affects 1/6 of the entire economy directly), because they know it's horrible.
8) They're voting for it without any public hearings
9) They're voting for it without the full text of the bill being public
10) The bill they're voting for is taking away $1 trillion from healthcare to pay for a tax cut to the wealthy
11) This bill likely won't make it through Senate as currently written, so they're voting for this evil symbolically
Vatican confirms Trump will meet Pope Francis on May 24.
Hey Order of Malta, now is the time to make use
of those troops you still have in Italy...
posted by corb at 9:39 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
Hey Order of Malta, now is the time to make use
of those troops you still have in Italy...
posted by corb at 9:39 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
> The enthusiasm with which many House Republicans are setting their careers on fire today is really impressive.
I wish I could share this person's optimism. SURELY THIS
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:40 AM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
I wish I could share this person's optimism. SURELY THIS
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:40 AM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
The enthusiasm with which many House Republicans are setting their careers on fire today is really impressive.
They plan to shut their fucking mouths and hope the electorate displays its famously goldfish-like attention span, gets bored, and moves onto voting for the latest season of The Voice instead of midterms.
God knows it'll probably work too.
posted by Talez at 9:41 AM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
They plan to shut their fucking mouths and hope the electorate displays its famously goldfish-like attention span, gets bored, and moves onto voting for the latest season of The Voice instead of midterms.
God knows it'll probably work too.
posted by Talez at 9:41 AM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
Kevin Drum does a quick wrap-up of the bill:
Hmm. How indeed. Let's see if we can spot which provision is not like the others in the list above. I've helpfully bold-faced it.
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:41 AM on May 4, 2017 [49 favorites]
-
There have been no public hearings.
There's no final text.
There's no updated CBO score.
It is opposed by virtually every patient advocacy group and everyone in the health care industry.
Congress is still exempted from the new rules that allow states to waive essential benefits.
It raises premiums dramatically for older people.
It removes Obamacare's protection against being turned down for a pre-existing condition.
It would steadily gut Medicaid spending for the very poorest.
It removes coverage from at least 24 million people, probably more.
It slashes taxes on the rich by about a trillion dollars over ten years.
Hmm. How indeed. Let's see if we can spot which provision is not like the others in the list above. I've helpfully bold-faced it.
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:41 AM on May 4, 2017 [49 favorites]
Maybe, Talez, but lots of those people will also be losing or suddenly paying a lot more for healthcare, which is hard to ignore.
posted by emjaybee at 9:43 AM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 9:43 AM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
@juliehdavis: "At National Day of Prayer event, Trump says if he hadn't won the presidency, "I'd be out enjoying my life.""
I really can't tell whether to be pleased or horrified that he doesn't seem to be enjoying this any more than we are.
posted by zachlipton at 9:46 AM on May 4, 2017 [18 favorites]
I really can't tell whether to be pleased or horrified that he doesn't seem to be enjoying this any more than we are.
posted by zachlipton at 9:46 AM on May 4, 2017 [18 favorites]
@juliehdavis: "At National Day of Prayer event, Trump says if he hadn't won the presidency, "I'd be out enjoying my life.""
Whenever he says this I assume what he means by it is that the Presidency is cramping his date-rapey-sex-assault lifestyle.
posted by dis_integration at 9:49 AM on May 4, 2017 [20 favorites]
Whenever he says this I assume what he means by it is that the Presidency is cramping his date-rapey-sex-assault lifestyle.
posted by dis_integration at 9:49 AM on May 4, 2017 [20 favorites]
I really can't tell whether to be pleased or horrified that he doesn't seem to be enjoying this any more than we are.
I hope he's more miserable than soaking in a bathtub full of bleach and razor blades.
posted by yoga at 9:49 AM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
I hope he's more miserable than soaking in a bathtub full of bleach and razor blades.
posted by yoga at 9:49 AM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
God knows it'll probably work too.
The counterpoint to this is that the AARP vocally despises this bill. You know who reliably votes in midterms? Old people.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:49 AM on May 4, 2017 [44 favorites]
The counterpoint to this is that the AARP vocally despises this bill. You know who reliably votes in midterms? Old people.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:49 AM on May 4, 2017 [44 favorites]
> Maybe, Talez, but lots of those people will also be losing or suddenly paying a lot more for healthcare, which is hard to ignore.
Easy. Just blame it on the Democrats.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:49 AM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
Easy. Just blame it on the Democrats.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:49 AM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
I feel this really informs the bickering and enabling of Trump we saw from MSBC's morning team:
Joe Scarborough and Mika Brzezinski Are Engaged
I can't help but think this was all a cute game to them all along, which is somehow grosser than them just being idiots. Hold out your hands, lovebirds, there's enough blood to go around.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:50 AM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
Joe Scarborough and Mika Brzezinski Are Engaged
I can't help but think this was all a cute game to them all along, which is somehow grosser than them just being idiots. Hold out your hands, lovebirds, there's enough blood to go around.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:50 AM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
One them of the Democrats in upcoming elections should be "Whoever Republicans are listening to, it isn't you."
One of the many, many structural problems with US politics is that everyone in Congress is convinced that their constituents are significantly more conservative than they actually are. Democrats in blue districts think they're representing moderates, Democrats in red districts think they're representing only Republicans, Republicans in blue districts think they're representing the Tea Party, and Republicans in red districts basically think they're representing like 15 militiamen in a hut somewhere.
They're not listening because everyone in our government, including Democrats, has convinced themselves that we don't exist and that the real power is held by the most reactionary elements of our society, to whom we must regularly make ritual sacrifices for appeasement.
posted by Copronymus at 9:53 AM on May 4, 2017 [39 favorites]
One of the many, many structural problems with US politics is that everyone in Congress is convinced that their constituents are significantly more conservative than they actually are. Democrats in blue districts think they're representing moderates, Democrats in red districts think they're representing only Republicans, Republicans in blue districts think they're representing the Tea Party, and Republicans in red districts basically think they're representing like 15 militiamen in a hut somewhere.
They're not listening because everyone in our government, including Democrats, has convinced themselves that we don't exist and that the real power is held by the most reactionary elements of our society, to whom we must regularly make ritual sacrifices for appeasement.
posted by Copronymus at 9:53 AM on May 4, 2017 [39 favorites]
Easy. Just blame it on the Democrats.
Exactly. I'm not sure people realize how much freedom being intellectually and morally bankrupt gives you in political advertising.
"Everyone knew Obamacare was going to explode, the Democrats were willing to let the whole thing blow up and wouldn't help us fix it. This is the best we could do".
posted by Talez at 9:54 AM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
Exactly. I'm not sure people realize how much freedom being intellectually and morally bankrupt gives you in political advertising.
"Everyone knew Obamacare was going to explode, the Democrats were willing to let the whole thing blow up and wouldn't help us fix it. This is the best we could do".
posted by Talez at 9:54 AM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
The only comfort I have been able to find in any of this is that Donald Trump is fucking miserable.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:56 AM on May 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:56 AM on May 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
The only comfort I have been able to find in any of this is that Donald Trump is fucking miserable.
The problem is that misery loves company and I can see him spreading it so he isn't alone.
posted by INFJ at 9:59 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
The problem is that misery loves company and I can see him spreading it so he isn't alone.
posted by INFJ at 9:59 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
> I can't help but think this was all a cute game to them all along, which is somehow grosser than them just being idiots.
They deserve each other, and this new wingnut-friendly MSNBC deserves them.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:00 AM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
They deserve each other, and this new wingnut-friendly MSNBC deserves them.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:00 AM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
Josh Marshall: What to Expect and What You Can Do. Right Now.
So lovely MeFites, let's make some fuckin' noise.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:02 AM on May 4, 2017 [36 favorites]
First, this should remind us of what I’ve previously called the Iron Law of Republican Politics. That is, the ‘GOP moderates’ will always cave. I learned this law back in 1998-99 during the impeachment drama. Lots of Republicans thought impeachment was insanity. They warned against it. Said it shouldn’t happen. Said it would be a disaster. Every Republican in the House but four ended up voting for it. [...]Basically, every single call to each Republican is super important--especially the part about holding the "moderates" accountable for this travesty by saying that if it passes, they are still on the hook for how their caucus votes.
I don’t see how it can get through the Senate. But remember The Iron Law of Republican Politics. [...]
If your Republican Rep is voting ‘no’, it’s still their vote and their seat which makes Paul Ryan the Speaker. That’s making this possible. If their seat was held by a Democrat (and obviously a number of seats more, not just that one) this wouldn’t be happening. So it’s not just about their vote. They make the majority possible. And that’s why this is happening. So really, they are just as responsible as the Republicans are voting “yes”. That’s true as a factual matter. As a matter of political strategy, if you want to protect the coverage of those 24 million people, you should let them know that you plan to hold them responsible for this. The heat on them will matter a lot because they have little real incentive to try to stop the train if they think they’re off the hook because they voted “no”. This is very important.
So lovely MeFites, let's make some fuckin' noise.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:02 AM on May 4, 2017 [36 favorites]
I can see him spreading it so he isn't alone.
Well, Ivanka and Jared are right down the hall...
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:03 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Well, Ivanka and Jared are right down the hall...
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:03 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
They deserve each other, and this new wingnut-friendly MSNBC deserves them.
Everybody thought The Hunger Games and The Handmaids Tale was fiction. And Waterworld.
posted by valkane at 10:04 AM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
Everybody thought The Hunger Games and The Handmaids Tale was fiction. And Waterworld.
posted by valkane at 10:04 AM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
> Vatican confirms Trump will meet Pope Francis on May 24.
Hey Order of Malta, now is the time to make use
of those troops you still have in Italy...
The Knights of Malta are more on Trump's side than the Pope's these days. Cardinal Burke, mentioned in that article, is a personal hero of Bannon and of Breitbart.
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:04 AM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
Hey Order of Malta, now is the time to make use
of those troops you still have in Italy...
The Knights of Malta are more on Trump's side than the Pope's these days. Cardinal Burke, mentioned in that article, is a personal hero of Bannon and of Breitbart.
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:04 AM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
Former Rep Joe Walsh (R-IL): ‘Inner City Diverse Populations’ Prevent Universal Health Care
Echoes what I recall a Republican MC saying during the initial fight over Obamacare back in the day: One of his arguments against it was that there were millions of black people in his state. That was the entirety of the argument -- Obamacare shouldn't pass because there were millions of black people who might benefit from it.
But don't you dare call the modern Republican party racist.
posted by lord_wolf at 10:07 AM on May 4, 2017 [67 favorites]
Echoes what I recall a Republican MC saying during the initial fight over Obamacare back in the day: One of his arguments against it was that there were millions of black people in his state. That was the entirety of the argument -- Obamacare shouldn't pass because there were millions of black people who might benefit from it.
But don't you dare call the modern Republican party racist.
posted by lord_wolf at 10:07 AM on May 4, 2017 [67 favorites]
More pepe than pope?
posted by Yowser at 10:08 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Yowser at 10:08 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yeah, you guys have noticed that an awful lot of Trump's inner circle are Catholics, right? Opus Dei, the Knights of Malta--there is absolutely a fascist, anti-semitic wing of the Catholic church, they are still around, they hate Pope Francis like burning, and Bannon is super tight with them.
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:10 AM on May 4, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:10 AM on May 4, 2017 [24 favorites]
Everybody thought Highlander was fiction, too. But it was a documentary and its events happened in real time.
...Carry on while I take my meds.
posted by delfin at 10:12 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
...Carry on while I take my meds.
posted by delfin at 10:12 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
The only comfort I have been able to find in any of this is that Donald Trump is fucking miserable.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:56 AM on May 4 [2 favorites +] [!]
And he has to spend the weekend in New Jersey.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 10:17 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:56 AM on May 4 [2 favorites +] [!]
And he has to spend the weekend in New Jersey.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 10:17 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Everybody thought Highlander was fiction, too. But it was a documentary and its events happened in real time.
Meatwad make the money, see?
posted by lazaruslong at 10:19 AM on May 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
Meatwad make the money, see?
posted by lazaruslong at 10:19 AM on May 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
(On hold with Tom Reed staffer - she confirms that Tom Reed is a YES vote for the bill this afternoon. Yeah, even with the gutting of Medicaid coverage. Yes, even though Federal subsidies will be cut off for most NY state exchange plans, because they mandate abortion coverage. This is fine.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:22 AM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:22 AM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
The politics are making me angry again.
posted by Servo5678 at 10:24 AM on May 4, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Servo5678 at 10:24 AM on May 4, 2017 [14 favorites]
The Republican propaganda universe is totally silent on repealing Obamacare right now.
They know they can't defend this bill based on what they've promised, so they're going to pretend Democrats still did everything. They'll call whatever emerges "Obamacare" still, because just like the budget bill still defunds "ACORN" every time even though it doesn't exist, Republicans have trained their mob to slather and foam everytime they invoke the Pavlovian "Obamacare" response.
So Trumpcare passes, Republicans don't even acknowledge it, then they blame Obama and Democrats for the effects. At no time does any Republican voter venture outside the closed information loop for another explanation.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:27 AM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
They know they can't defend this bill based on what they've promised, so they're going to pretend Democrats still did everything. They'll call whatever emerges "Obamacare" still, because just like the budget bill still defunds "ACORN" every time even though it doesn't exist, Republicans have trained their mob to slather and foam everytime they invoke the Pavlovian "Obamacare" response.
So Trumpcare passes, Republicans don't even acknowledge it, then they blame Obama and Democrats for the effects. At no time does any Republican voter venture outside the closed information loop for another explanation.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:27 AM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
Anyone know how Dave Reichert ended up voting?
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 10:29 AM on May 4, 2017
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 10:29 AM on May 4, 2017
Vote coming up. C-SPAN streaming link. NYT live vote tracker.
Also please enjoy Rep. Ted Lieu's vote card.
posted by zachlipton at 10:30 AM on May 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
Also please enjoy Rep. Ted Lieu's vote card.
posted by zachlipton at 10:30 AM on May 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
Anyone know how Dave Reichert ended up voting?
The vote hasn't happened yet but it doesn't matter how he ends up voting; every Republican is complicit in this abomination. All of them. A vote for any Republican in 2018 and 2020 is a vote to kill the poor to feed the rich.
posted by Justinian at 10:33 AM on May 4, 2017 [22 favorites]
The vote hasn't happened yet but it doesn't matter how he ends up voting; every Republican is complicit in this abomination. All of them. A vote for any Republican in 2018 and 2020 is a vote to kill the poor to feed the rich.
posted by Justinian at 10:33 AM on May 4, 2017 [22 favorites]
So Trumpcare passes, Republicans don't even acknowledge it, then they blame Obama and Democrats for the effects. At no time does any Republican voter venture outside the closed information loop for another explanation.
But how does that work, when this entire obscenity is about Republicans keeping their promise to "repeal and replace" Obamacare in the first place? They have to bring this so-called "win" to their base, and when their voters lose their insurance, I don't care if they blame Republicans for repealing the ACA or not repealing it enough, but not recognizing their actions seems to require feats of cognitive dissonance that would be hard even for a Republican.
posted by Gelatin at 10:34 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
But how does that work, when this entire obscenity is about Republicans keeping their promise to "repeal and replace" Obamacare in the first place? They have to bring this so-called "win" to their base, and when their voters lose their insurance, I don't care if they blame Republicans for repealing the ACA or not repealing it enough, but not recognizing their actions seems to require feats of cognitive dissonance that would be hard even for a Republican.
posted by Gelatin at 10:34 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
there is absolutely a fascist, anti-semitic wing of the Catholic church
Data point: The Belgian nuns in the convent who hid my 12-ish yo mother from the Nazis called her the devil and baptized her.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:36 AM on May 4, 2017 [20 favorites]
Data point: The Belgian nuns in the convent who hid my 12-ish yo mother from the Nazis called her the devil and baptized her.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:36 AM on May 4, 2017 [20 favorites]
Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse gives a weekly floor speech about climate change and how increasingly fucked we all are thanks to Republicans' dedication to sticking their heads in the sand. If I were in Congress, and the ACHA becomes law, I'd be doing something similar with deaths and bankruptcies caused by lack of insurance. Every week, make these fuckers look at the names and faces of of the people they killed.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:36 AM on May 4, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:36 AM on May 4, 2017 [17 favorites]
Here is another piece speculating on the anti-LGBT EO that might potentially happen today. No new information there; I'm just posting so I can vent about how frustrating it is that the dominant response to this has been either, "Okay, well, why don't LGB/T people just start discriminating against cishet people!" or, "Okay, well, why don't LGB/T people just find a [doctor, landlord, state employee] who is LGB/T friendly!" Both of those are monumentally stupid, blinkered non-suggestions and I'm beyond tired of seeing them.
On Trumpcare, I'm probably feeling even more pessimistic. The ACA was a colossal failure, largely because states could opt out of or hobble it to whatever degree they chose, so to a huge chunk of the US, the ACA is linked with "that thing that took away my token insurance and left me with nothing." I think it's too late to start educating people on how limited their non-insurance was and all the myriad reasons (Republican meddling) the ACA was effectively DoA in so many states. That was something that needed to be done years ago instead of mooning over how great the ACA is for anyone lucky enough to live in a region where it wasn't deliberately sabotaged to be a force of destruction. At this point, widespread positive public perception of the ACA is probably a lost battle, and repealing/replacing it with even more garbage will initially be seen as improvement.
posted by byanyothername at 10:36 AM on May 4, 2017
On Trumpcare, I'm probably feeling even more pessimistic. The ACA was a colossal failure, largely because states could opt out of or hobble it to whatever degree they chose, so to a huge chunk of the US, the ACA is linked with "that thing that took away my token insurance and left me with nothing." I think it's too late to start educating people on how limited their non-insurance was and all the myriad reasons (Republican meddling) the ACA was effectively DoA in so many states. That was something that needed to be done years ago instead of mooning over how great the ACA is for anyone lucky enough to live in a region where it wasn't deliberately sabotaged to be a force of destruction. At this point, widespread positive public perception of the ACA is probably a lost battle, and repealing/replacing it with even more garbage will initially be seen as improvement.
posted by byanyothername at 10:36 AM on May 4, 2017
ActBlue has a single page where you can help fund Democratic challenges to all the GOP reps in Clinton-voting areas. I'd link but I can't go there from work...
posted by suelac at 10:37 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by suelac at 10:37 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
From Zeynep Tufecki: .@actblue now has a single page to donate to challengers to wavering, vulnerable Rs who may vote yes—unless spooked.
Here's the link to the Act Blue page.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:37 AM on May 4, 2017 [16 favorites]
Here's the link to the Act Blue page.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:37 AM on May 4, 2017 [16 favorites]
At this point, widespread positive public perception of the ACA is probably a lost battle, and repealing/replacing it with even more garbage will initially be seen as improvement.
Whaaaa? The ACA is more popular than it has ever been, has majority support, and its replacement has something like 17% approval... and that was the previous bill and not the new&improved extrashitty one.
The ACA was a colossal failure
... It was not.
posted by Justinian at 10:39 AM on May 4, 2017 [62 favorites]
Whaaaa? The ACA is more popular than it has ever been, has majority support, and its replacement has something like 17% approval... and that was the previous bill and not the new&improved extrashitty one.
The ACA was a colossal failure
... It was not.
posted by Justinian at 10:39 AM on May 4, 2017 [62 favorites]
I don't care if they blame Republicans for repealing the ACA or not repealing it enough, but not recognizing their actions seems to require feats of cognitive dissonance that would be hard even for a Republican.
You haven't been watching much of 2016-17 then. Republican voters will absolutely blame Democrats, they do every time. These are the same people that just voted Trump and Paul Ryan into power as populists.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:39 AM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
You haven't been watching much of 2016-17 then. Republican voters will absolutely blame Democrats, they do every time. These are the same people that just voted Trump and Paul Ryan into power as populists.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:39 AM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
Meatwad make the money, see?
Come to think of it, C-list conservabot Mark Levin sounds awfully familiar...
posted by delfin at 10:40 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Come to think of it, C-list conservabot Mark Levin sounds awfully familiar...
posted by delfin at 10:40 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Paul Ryan is speaking now. He's giving shout outs first. Gives the president thanks for his "steadfast leadership".
posted by zrail at 10:46 AM on May 4, 2017
posted by zrail at 10:46 AM on May 4, 2017
These are the same people that just voted Trump and Paul Ryan into power as populists.
I disagree. "Populist" is just the term the so-called "liberal media" uses to avoid calling them -- people like Marine LePen, for Ford's sake! -- fascists. These people voted Trump and Paul Ryan into power to take all the cushy government benefits away from those people, not themselves, and I maintain that the Republicans are going to have a hard time running on "we repealed and replaced Obamacare, yay!" when their own voters are losing their heath insurance.
posted by Gelatin at 10:47 AM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
I disagree. "Populist" is just the term the so-called "liberal media" uses to avoid calling them -- people like Marine LePen, for Ford's sake! -- fascists. These people voted Trump and Paul Ryan into power to take all the cushy government benefits away from those people, not themselves, and I maintain that the Republicans are going to have a hard time running on "we repealed and replaced Obamacare, yay!" when their own voters are losing their heath insurance.
posted by Gelatin at 10:47 AM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
or, "Okay, well, why don't LGB/T people just find a [doctor, landlord, state employee] who is LGB/T friendly!" Both of those are monumentally stupid,
Let's remind all the not-targetted straight people that a government that enthusiastically limits or pisses on some people's rights can't be stopped from infringing or enfrothening anyone else's rights. Rights have to be for everyone or they aren't rights, they are more like whims. ("Stronger together" dammit.)
posted by puddledork at 10:47 AM on May 4, 2017 [27 favorites]
Let's remind all the not-targetted straight people that a government that enthusiastically limits or pisses on some people's rights can't be stopped from infringing or enfrothening anyone else's rights. Rights have to be for everyone or they aren't rights, they are more like whims. ("Stronger together" dammit.)
posted by puddledork at 10:47 AM on May 4, 2017 [27 favorites]
Dana Bash just tweeted that the Republican House members are planning a photo op at the White House after the vote. Which will be useful for identification of traitors.
posted by Sophie1 at 10:49 AM on May 4, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by Sophie1 at 10:49 AM on May 4, 2017 [20 favorites]
Paul Ryan is speaking now. He's giving shout outs first. Gives the president thanks for his "steadfast leadership".
I would love to take comfort in the fantasy that Ryan knows the vote will fail and is just sticking in the knife here.
posted by Gelatin at 10:49 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
I would love to take comfort in the fantasy that Ryan knows the vote will fail and is just sticking in the knife here.
posted by Gelatin at 10:49 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
> I would love to take comfort in the fantasy that Ryan knows the vote will fail and is just sticking in the knife here.
Noted weathervane Tom Reed is voting in favor. It seems unlikely to fail in the House today.
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:51 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
Noted weathervane Tom Reed is voting in favor. It seems unlikely to fail in the House today.
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:51 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
Might be a good time to get a jump on things and call your GOP Senators before this passes, at which point they'll go into witness protection.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:52 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 10:52 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
I am keening inside; these motherfuckers.
posted by GrammarMoses at 10:53 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by GrammarMoses at 10:53 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
First vote is happening now. This one unexempts Congress and their staff from the AHCA changes. The AHCA itself will be the second vote, in roughly 15 minutes.
posted by zachlipton at 10:53 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by zachlipton at 10:53 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
The ACA was a colossal failure, largely because states could opt out of or hobble it to whatever degree they chose
"The chemotherapy was supposed to cure my brain cancer instantly, but has merely brought its growth to a halt so they can operate. Those goddamned lying doctors think they're so smart, well, I'll lop off my head with a meat cleaver, THAT'LL show them"
posted by Mayor West at 10:54 AM on May 4, 2017 [18 favorites]
"The chemotherapy was supposed to cure my brain cancer instantly, but has merely brought its growth to a halt so they can operate. Those goddamned lying doctors think they're so smart, well, I'll lop off my head with a meat cleaver, THAT'LL show them"
posted by Mayor West at 10:54 AM on May 4, 2017 [18 favorites]
Got through to my rep's office; her staff "didn't know" how she was going to vote, yeah right. Told her to tell my rep she'd have blood on her hands and people would die. She won't care but it needs to be said.
posted by emjaybee at 10:55 AM on May 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 10:55 AM on May 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
I maintain that the Republicans are going to have a hard time running on "we repealed and replaced Obamacare, yay!" when their own voters are losing their heath insurance.
As long as nobody who they see themselves as superior to has insurance either, it won't make a difference.
posted by uncleozzy at 10:55 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
As long as nobody who they see themselves as superior to has insurance either, it won't make a difference.
posted by uncleozzy at 10:55 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'd like to thank all these cretinous fucksticks in swing districts for providing endless ammo in the upcoming midterms.
Anti-child, Anti-senior, unchristian legislation that's doomed in the Senate. Way to go, assholes.
posted by leotrotsky at 10:56 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
Anti-child, Anti-senior, unchristian legislation that's doomed in the Senate. Way to go, assholes.
posted by leotrotsky at 10:56 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
Cases of beer being rolled into the Capitol, buses waiting outside for GOP reps to take them to the White House to celebrate. They're going to have a party. Just for getting a bill they don't even like through the House.
posted by zachlipton at 10:57 AM on May 4, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 10:57 AM on May 4, 2017 [24 favorites]
They're going to have a party.
Are we no longer doing optics?
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:58 AM on May 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
Are we no longer doing optics?
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:58 AM on May 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
They're going to have a party.
I hope they take photos; that'll look good on the oppo ads as well.
I don't believe in Hell. Sometimes I hope I'm wrong about that.
posted by leotrotsky at 10:59 AM on May 4, 2017 [26 favorites]
I hope they take photos; that'll look good on the oppo ads as well.
I don't believe in Hell. Sometimes I hope I'm wrong about that.
posted by leotrotsky at 10:59 AM on May 4, 2017 [26 favorites]
My representative is Jodey Arrington, TX19. I called the national line this morning, and it was busy for a while, so phoned up the local branch. Local guy on the phone did not know which way Arrington was going to vote, but when I finally got through to the D.C. number, she said he was voting yes.
I left my impassioned comments for both, And my 'concern was noted'. But after hanging up and realizing that they are staff, and therefore probably exempt from any healthcare repercussions... it drove home a point even further, and I'm still trying to unpack what that point entails and how to effectively fight back.
posted by erisfree at 10:59 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
I left my impassioned comments for both, And my 'concern was noted'. But after hanging up and realizing that they are staff, and therefore probably exempt from any healthcare repercussions... it drove home a point even further, and I'm still trying to unpack what that point entails and how to effectively fight back.
posted by erisfree at 10:59 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
> First vote is happening now. This one unexempts Congress and their staff from the AHCA changes. The AHCA itself will be the second vote, in roughly 15 minutes.
The first vote is not yet over (150 odd remaining to be cast), but I am surprised that none of the dems have taken a principled stand to not exempt themselves from the changes to which their constituents will be subjected.
Or rather, not surprised. Just disappointed.
posted by Westringia F. at 10:59 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
The first vote is not yet over (150 odd remaining to be cast), but I am surprised that none of the dems have taken a principled stand to not exempt themselves from the changes to which their constituents will be subjected.
Or rather, not surprised. Just disappointed.
posted by Westringia F. at 10:59 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
They're going to party like it's Paul Ryan's frat house after he was elected President of the college Republicans. Over taking away health for 25 million or more people.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:00 AM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:00 AM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
Nobody should be allowed to shit on the ACA, which has already saved many lives and will save many more until the GOP neuters it, without explaining exactly what plan they had that would have been better and could have passed Congress as constituted in 2008-2009.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:00 AM on May 4, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 11:00 AM on May 4, 2017 [11 favorites]
Cases of beer being rolled into the Capitol, buses waiting outside for GOP reps to take them to the White House to celebrate. They're going to have a party.
If the Democrats aren't already assembling campaign ads juxtaposing those images with ones of sick, broke, and dying Americans, there should be hell to pay.
posted by Gelatin at 11:00 AM on May 4, 2017 [48 favorites]
If the Democrats aren't already assembling campaign ads juxtaposing those images with ones of sick, broke, and dying Americans, there should be hell to pay.
posted by Gelatin at 11:00 AM on May 4, 2017 [48 favorites]
We have at least a week before parts of this can be passed via reconciliation, yes?
The Senate moves slowly. There is time to respond... you won't see a repeat of this cloak and dagger backroom shit in the Senate.
posted by Justinian at 11:00 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
The Senate moves slowly. There is time to respond... you won't see a repeat of this cloak and dagger backroom shit in the Senate.
posted by Justinian at 11:00 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Huh, one Democrat voted Present on the unexemption bill. (Everyone else so far has voted Yea.)
posted by theodolite at 11:00 AM on May 4, 2017
posted by theodolite at 11:00 AM on May 4, 2017
Westringia F.: passage of the first vote (HR 2192) means that Congress isn't exempting themselves.
posted by zachlipton at 11:02 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:02 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
We have at least a week before parts of this can be passed via reconciliation, yes?
Two weeks, actually. One of the reasons the vote is being rushed is so that they can get it out of the way before the spring recess, and fence-sitters wouldn't have to do any actual constituent work.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:02 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Two weeks, actually. One of the reasons the vote is being rushed is so that they can get it out of the way before the spring recess, and fence-sitters wouldn't have to do any actual constituent work.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:02 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Let's remind all the not-targetted straight people that a government that enthusiastically limits or pisses on some people's rights can't be stopped from infringing or enfrothening anyone else's rights. Rights have to be for everyone or they aren't rights, they are more like whims. ("Stronger together" dammit.)
Exactly this! One of the lessons that A Handmaid's Tale drives home is, it can happen to you, white straight people in blue states! While I don't think we are headed for martial law anytime soon (and for various reasons I don't think it would be easy-peasy to implement) I don't think not-targeted straight people, or indeed anyone cushioned by privilege in blue states, should be complacent; if for no other reason than targeted people are Americans, too, and deserve to have us stand with them.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 11:03 AM on May 4, 2017 [11 favorites]
Exactly this! One of the lessons that A Handmaid's Tale drives home is, it can happen to you, white straight people in blue states! While I don't think we are headed for martial law anytime soon (and for various reasons I don't think it would be easy-peasy to implement) I don't think not-targeted straight people, or indeed anyone cushioned by privilege in blue states, should be complacent; if for no other reason than targeted people are Americans, too, and deserve to have us stand with them.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 11:03 AM on May 4, 2017 [11 favorites]
Two weeks, actually. One of the reasons the vote is being rushed is so that they can get it out of the way before the spring recess, and fence-sitters wouldn't have to do any actual constituent work.
Just the House is in recess. The Senate will be at work next week.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:04 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Just the House is in recess. The Senate will be at work next week.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:04 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Wait, do I have this backwards? Does a YEA vote on HR2192 mean that MC's ARE or ARE NOT exempt from the changes the AHCA would make?
On preview: yes, I do have it backwards (yea = no exemption). Thank you for the correction, zachlipton.
posted by Westringia F. at 11:06 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
On preview: yes, I do have it backwards (yea = no exemption). Thank you for the correction, zachlipton.
posted by Westringia F. at 11:06 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Not just any beer:
@ajjaffeCases upon cases of beer just rolled into the Capitol on a cart covered in a sheet. Spotted Bud Light peeking out from the sheet
posted by emjaybee at 11:06 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
@ajjaffeCases upon cases of beer just rolled into the Capitol on a cart covered in a sheet. Spotted Bud Light peeking out from the sheet
posted by emjaybee at 11:06 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
The ActBlue tally is closing in on $90k toward the $100k goal for the day.
posted by yoga at 11:10 AM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by yoga at 11:10 AM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
Spotted Bud Light peeking out from the sheet
Glad they're not wasting taxpayer money on expensive beer, then...
posted by suelac at 11:10 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Glad they're not wasting taxpayer money on expensive beer, then...
posted by suelac at 11:10 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
why the fuck would they vote against the exemption when the main bill makes it completely obvious that they don't give a shit about optics
posted by murphy slaw at 11:11 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 11:11 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump
If victorious, Republicans will be having a big press conference at the beautiful Rose Garden of the White House immediately after vote!
posted by Sophie1 at 11:12 AM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
If victorious, Republicans will be having a big press conference at the beautiful Rose Garden of the White House immediately after vote!
posted by Sophie1 at 11:12 AM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
And here we go. AHCA vote now.
posted by zachlipton at 11:12 AM on May 4, 2017
posted by zachlipton at 11:12 AM on May 4, 2017
Cases upon cases of beer just rolled into the Capitol on a cart covered in a sheet.
Symbolic of the Americans their vote is going to kill, no doubt.
[FADE IN ON]
Republicans celebrating the repeal of Obamacare
[CUT TO]
A staffer wheeling in another case of beer on a cart covered with a sheet
[SMASH CUT TO]
A body covered with a sheet being wheeled to the morgue. In the background, a DOCTOR tries to console a grieving white, working-class SPOUSE
SPOUSE: But I thought pre-existing conditions were covered!
DOCTOR: Didn't you hear? The Republicans repealed and replaced Obamacare.
[CUT TO]
Republicans celebrating, all smiles
VOICEOVER: This November, send a message that American lives are more important than tax cuts for the rich. Vote Democrat.
posted by Gelatin at 11:13 AM on May 4, 2017 [43 favorites]
Symbolic of the Americans their vote is going to kill, no doubt.
[FADE IN ON]
Republicans celebrating the repeal of Obamacare
[CUT TO]
A staffer wheeling in another case of beer on a cart covered with a sheet
[SMASH CUT TO]
A body covered with a sheet being wheeled to the morgue. In the background, a DOCTOR tries to console a grieving white, working-class SPOUSE
SPOUSE: But I thought pre-existing conditions were covered!
DOCTOR: Didn't you hear? The Republicans repealed and replaced Obamacare.
[CUT TO]
Republicans celebrating, all smiles
VOICEOVER: This November, send a message that American lives are more important than tax cuts for the rich. Vote Democrat.
posted by Gelatin at 11:13 AM on May 4, 2017 [43 favorites]
If victorious, Republicans will be having a big press conference at the beautiful Rose Garden of the White House immediately after vote!
Once again making it clear that this would be a victory for Republicans, and not for the United States or its citizens.
posted by uncleozzy at 11:14 AM on May 4, 2017 [40 favorites]
Once again making it clear that this would be a victory for Republicans, and not for the United States or its citizens.
posted by uncleozzy at 11:14 AM on May 4, 2017 [40 favorites]
Once again making it clear that this would be a victory for Republicans, and not for the United States or its citizens.
because these are diametrically opposed goals
posted by murphy slaw at 11:15 AM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
because these are diametrically opposed goals
posted by murphy slaw at 11:15 AM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
Once again making it clear that this would be a victory for Republicans, and not for the United States or its citizens.
I wish I could have added that line to my script. Though somehow i have a feeling the Democrats are going to raise enough money to fund plenty of ads.
posted by Gelatin at 11:15 AM on May 4, 2017
I wish I could have added that line to my script. Though somehow i have a feeling the Democrats are going to raise enough money to fund plenty of ads.
posted by Gelatin at 11:15 AM on May 4, 2017
There are two Democratic Yea votes on the screen right now. Who the fuck is defecting?
posted by zrail at 11:16 AM on May 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by zrail at 11:16 AM on May 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
OK, which two fucking Democrats are voting yes?
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:16 AM on May 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:16 AM on May 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
Wow. There are Dems who voted yes? What in the fucking fuck!
posted by prefpara at 11:16 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by prefpara at 11:16 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Democrat Filemon Vela is on the board as a yes. WTF?
posted by zachlipton at 11:16 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:16 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
Am I seeing 2 Democrats voting yes? What is that fuckery?
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:16 AM on May 4, 2017
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:16 AM on May 4, 2017
Are those really 2 Democratic Yeas???
posted by TwoWordReview at 11:16 AM on May 4, 2017
posted by TwoWordReview at 11:16 AM on May 4, 2017
I think it's just Filemon Vela.
Fuck Filemon Vela forever.
posted by middleclasstool at 11:17 AM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
Fuck Filemon Vela forever.
posted by middleclasstool at 11:17 AM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
It passes. Nightmare.
posted by prefpara at 11:17 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by prefpara at 11:17 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Probably miscounted votes. I show no D yes vote right now, with 216 R Yes votes.
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:17 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:17 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Dems switched back. WTF was that, though? Tech glitch or actual change?
posted by Freon at 11:17 AM on May 4, 2017
posted by Freon at 11:17 AM on May 4, 2017
Wait, do I have this backwards? Does a YEA vote on HR2192 mean that MC's ARE or ARE NOT exempt from the changes the AHCA would make?
Keep in mind that this is a meaningless vote purely for political optics. Because Congress members can buy their insurance from the DC exchange, and the DC exchange is run by the Democratic council, they can be sure that they will never face the possibility of a waiver taking away their Obamacare benefits. Democrats won't do anything to hurt their own citizens, even if it is a gift to the Republicans.
Republicans love Obamacare's benefits. They just hate the idea of poor people getting those same benefits.
posted by JackFlash at 11:18 AM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
Keep in mind that this is a meaningless vote purely for political optics. Because Congress members can buy their insurance from the DC exchange, and the DC exchange is run by the Democratic council, they can be sure that they will never face the possibility of a waiver taking away their Obamacare benefits. Democrats won't do anything to hurt their own citizens, even if it is a gift to the Republicans.
Republicans love Obamacare's benefits. They just hate the idea of poor people getting those same benefits.
posted by JackFlash at 11:18 AM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
Vela is almost certainly not really voting for this. I'm betting he was just messing with them. Or hit the wrong button.
posted by zachlipton at 11:18 AM on May 4, 2017
posted by zachlipton at 11:18 AM on May 4, 2017
Looks like it was a voting error; they're gone now. And the fucking Republicans are singing "Na Na, Hey Hey" (Kiss Him Goodbye)." Classy.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:18 AM on May 4, 2017
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:18 AM on May 4, 2017
The NYT now has the 2 dem yes votes off the board.
posted by kelborel at 11:18 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by kelborel at 11:18 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
217 out of 218 to pass...
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:18 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:18 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Democrats on the House floor signing "Na-na-na, na-na-na, hey, hey, goodbye."
posted by zachlipton at 11:18 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by zachlipton at 11:18 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Those motherfuckers are singing right now
posted by OverlappingElvis at 11:18 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by OverlappingElvis at 11:18 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Wow, down to the wire. 20 Republicans vote No. But ...
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:19 AM on May 4, 2017
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:19 AM on May 4, 2017
The GOP congressional delegation has broken out into song. "Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Good Bye".
Fuck everything.
posted by zrail at 11:19 AM on May 4, 2017
Fuck everything.
posted by zrail at 11:19 AM on May 4, 2017
They're fucking singing "na na na na, hey hey, goodbye" on the house floor. I'll remember this when my Medicaid is taken from me, how they danced and fiddled while my hope of coverage in this country burned.
posted by Theiform at 11:19 AM on May 4, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by Theiform at 11:19 AM on May 4, 2017 [34 favorites]
They got it.
I would like to retract my previous comment about Filemon Vela.
posted by middleclasstool at 11:19 AM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
I would like to retract my previous comment about Filemon Vela.
posted by middleclasstool at 11:19 AM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
217 out of 218 to pass...
You only need more Y's than N's, not 218.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:19 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
You only need more Y's than N's, not 218.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:19 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Passes 217-213.
posted by zachlipton at 11:19 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by zachlipton at 11:19 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Being a five-year-old in politics extends beyond our president, apparently.
posted by Theiform at 11:20 AM on May 4, 2017
posted by Theiform at 11:20 AM on May 4, 2017
NYT says it passes, 217-213-1. A non-voting Republican, no Democrat yes votes.
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:20 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:20 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
See you in 2018, you miserable fucks
posted by theodolite at 11:20 AM on May 4, 2017 [36 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 11:20 AM on May 4, 2017 [36 favorites]
I shit on everything that moves.
posted by delfin at 11:20 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by delfin at 11:20 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
That singing and celebrating better be in every campaign ad.
posted by emjaybee at 11:21 AM on May 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 11:21 AM on May 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
Five votes to destroy the lives of millions and millions.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:21 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:21 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
The singing was, per Congressional Twitter, Democrats. As in "say goodbye to your seats."
posted by zachlipton at 11:21 AM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:21 AM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
Pretty sure it was the Dems singing, as they were also doing a weird wave at the Rep side.
posted by DynamiteToast at 11:21 AM on May 4, 2017
posted by DynamiteToast at 11:21 AM on May 4, 2017
Word is it was Democrats doing the singing. Anticipating 2018?
posted by Roommate at 11:22 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Roommate at 11:22 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
How is a recording of the Republicans singing like that not an instant commercial with "Here's the Republicans celebrating you losing your healthcare"?
posted by Mister Fabulous at 11:22 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Mister Fabulous at 11:22 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's hard to believe I could become any more radicalized against these heinous evil hypocritical pathetic fucks who want to destroy this country. But I think I just did. The 2018 fight starts today.
posted by the turtle's teeth at 11:22 AM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by the turtle's teeth at 11:22 AM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
Serious question, what is this going to mean for my disabled child on Medicaid in Washington state?
posted by bq at 11:23 AM on May 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by bq at 11:23 AM on May 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
Pelosi: Dems shouldn't run on single payer in 2018
Also: Here are the 85 House Dems who have not come out in support of Medicare For All
posted by indubitable at 11:23 AM on May 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
Also: Here are the 85 House Dems who have not come out in support of Medicare For All
posted by indubitable at 11:23 AM on May 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
With a bunch of victories and sort-of-victories a few weeks ago it kind of felt like Resistance was starting to lose a little steam, but per my Facebook, not anymore.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:24 AM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:24 AM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
Serious question, what is this going to mean for my disabled child on Medicaid in Washington state?
I'm not sure we'll really know til the bill gets through the Senate, but I don't think it'll be good.
posted by DynamiteToast at 11:24 AM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm not sure we'll really know til the bill gets through the Senate, but I don't think it'll be good.
posted by DynamiteToast at 11:24 AM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
.
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:24 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:24 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
The beer might have been going to another thing, but the buses to a White House celebration are real.
posted by zachlipton at 11:24 AM on May 4, 2017
posted by zachlipton at 11:24 AM on May 4, 2017
It means nothing until it goes through the Senate and then back to the House.
posted by dilaudid at 11:25 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by dilaudid at 11:25 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
Serious question, what is this going to mean for my disabled child on Medicaid in Washington state?
Impossible to tell. This still has to go to the Senate. The Senate is not going to pass this as-is and will likely write their own, mildly, monstrosity. Then the two will go to conference committee and emerge with a Frankensteins Monster hybrid of the two.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:25 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Impossible to tell. This still has to go to the Senate. The Senate is not going to pass this as-is and will likely write their own, mildly, monstrosity. Then the two will go to conference committee and emerge with a Frankensteins Monster hybrid of the two.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:25 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Now onto the Senate.
There's no end of the trickery McConnell will use to give Republicans a win, but he's also at least somewhat constrained by a more even partisan split. Give Republicans no cover. If you live in a state with so-called "moderates" like Collins or McCain, tell them their yes votes will do in their phony rep.
I'll be letting Donnelly know I have my eye on him.
posted by Gelatin at 11:25 AM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
There's no end of the trickery McConnell will use to give Republicans a win, but he's also at least somewhat constrained by a more even partisan split. Give Republicans no cover. If you live in a state with so-called "moderates" like Collins or McCain, tell them their yes votes will do in their phony rep.
I'll be letting Donnelly know I have my eye on him.
posted by Gelatin at 11:25 AM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
bq right now it means nothing because it still has to pass the senate (and signed into law by the president, which he'll do in a heartbeat)
I would encourage you to write and call your senators to make sure it doesn't pass there.
posted by INFJ at 11:25 AM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
I would encourage you to write and call your senators to make sure it doesn't pass there.
posted by INFJ at 11:25 AM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
Serious question, what is this going to mean for my disabled child on Medicaid in Washington state?
Probably not much. AHCA as passed by the House gets rid of Medicaid expansion, but your child is likely eligible for Medicaid under the old non-expansion rules.
posted by zrail at 11:25 AM on May 4, 2017
Probably not much. AHCA as passed by the House gets rid of Medicaid expansion, but your child is likely eligible for Medicaid under the old non-expansion rules.
posted by zrail at 11:25 AM on May 4, 2017
I don't care for either party singing a song, particularly THAT song, after the other passes something this bad. I prefer solemnity in my democracy when one group passes odious legislation. This just makes you look like a child. I dunno maybe that's just me.
posted by Green With You at 11:25 AM on May 4, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by Green With You at 11:25 AM on May 4, 2017 [28 favorites]
Serious question, what is this going to mean for my disabled child on Medicaid in Washington state?
Nothing immediately.
The Senate still has to pass ... something. And then reconciliation. And then a waiting period for the law to take effect.
Long term? Honestly, nobody knows. It depends on what the final law that reaches the President's desk looks like. What passes the Senate may be the same or may not. We just don't know.
posted by anastasiav at 11:25 AM on May 4, 2017
Several upstanding members of society I follow on twitter are talking in oblique terms about pitchforks and torches and rioting. I can't say I disagree. But let us eat cake, right?
posted by Brainy at 11:25 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Brainy at 11:25 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
So, you wanna talk death panels? Let's talk republicans!
posted by valkane at 11:26 AM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by valkane at 11:26 AM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
I have every intention of spending every spare dime on the Democratic challengers in CA49 and CA25 this year and next.
posted by Sophie1 at 11:26 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Sophie1 at 11:26 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
So that comment from earlier in the thread? "Job one is BLOWBACK. [...] A highly visible, public firestorm. Rage. If the House passes TrumpCare, every Republican member of Congress has to feel like they're walking into a political buzz saw."
I'm on it.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:27 AM on May 4, 2017 [29 favorites]
I'm on it.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:27 AM on May 4, 2017 [29 favorites]
I haven't bought medicines with my Walgreen's savings card or my CVS savings card. I've lived in a fear of knowledge of pre-existing conditions excluding me from future insurance. Those little bits of savings are slavery to a corporation who can hold my future hostage when their databases or hacked (like Target's) or just sold off. I knew this day would be coming.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:27 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:27 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
It means nothing until it goes through the Senate and then back to the House.
It means a lot. It's not enforceable law until it goes through the Senate and then back to the House. But it signals to the insurers that they can start fucking with us again. It signals to the poor, the sick, the young, and the elderly that they are fucked in a Republican nation.
posted by Existential Dread at 11:27 AM on May 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
Stupidly I peeked at Fox News just after this passed and saw a snip of a white but not blonde female pundit saying something about higher rates of teen pregnancy and drug addiction. I'm guessing wildly at the context, but I think she may have been setting up an argument about why "urban" people should either pay more for or just get less healthcare.
It's shit all over.
posted by puddledork at 11:27 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's shit all over.
posted by puddledork at 11:27 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
every Republican member of Congress has to feel like they're walking into a political buzz saw
I'd be okay with a literal one, tbh
posted by uncleozzy at 11:28 AM on May 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
I'd be okay with a literal one, tbh
posted by uncleozzy at 11:28 AM on May 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
Well, now it's either:
* fuck it, Dude, let's go bowling
* fuck it, Dude, let's burn the whole fucking thing down so we can all die in a fire.
...and I'm kind of apathetic as to where I land. It seems a not-insignificant percentage of the population is willing to throw my spouse and I on the fire. I'd like to take a few of the bastards with us.
But I'm also emotionally fatigued. There's nothing left to give. My field of fucks is barren.
posted by Fezboy! at 11:28 AM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
* fuck it, Dude, let's go bowling
* fuck it, Dude, let's burn the whole fucking thing down so we can all die in a fire.
...and I'm kind of apathetic as to where I land. It seems a not-insignificant percentage of the population is willing to throw my spouse and I on the fire. I'd like to take a few of the bastards with us.
But I'm also emotionally fatigued. There's nothing left to give. My field of fucks is barren.
posted by Fezboy! at 11:28 AM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
Was it really Dems singing? I only ask because it sounded like 100% dudes
posted by theodolite at 11:28 AM on May 4, 2017
posted by theodolite at 11:28 AM on May 4, 2017
So they're about to have a party to celebrate taking health care away from tens of millions of their constituents, but the really crazy part is that it's just the House vote. They've done nothing other than dump a flaming turd in the lap of the Senate and run away, and they're so desperate to say they've accomplished something that they're going to act like they just landed on the moon.
posted by zachlipton at 11:28 AM on May 4, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:28 AM on May 4, 2017 [27 favorites]
Democrats are singing the same song on the House Floor that GOPs sang to them in 1993 when Clinton tax bill passed.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:29 AM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:29 AM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
Oh yay my anarchist husband is bashing Dems at me via text. That feels awesome right now, thank you.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:31 AM on May 4, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:31 AM on May 4, 2017 [15 favorites]
I don't care for either party singing a song, particularly THAT song, after the other passes something this bad. I prefer solemnity in my democracy when one group passes odious legislation. This just makes you look like a child. I dunno maybe that's just me.
By all means focus on chastising the Democratic party's tone while the Republicans vote to let people die.
posted by srboisvert at 11:31 AM on May 4, 2017 [41 favorites]
By all means focus on chastising the Democratic party's tone while the Republicans vote to let people die.
posted by srboisvert at 11:31 AM on May 4, 2017 [41 favorites]
This just makes you look like a child. I dunno maybe that's just me.
Not just you. It’s not time for cutesy singing. It’s time to burn the fuckers to the ground and salt the earth they came from.
posted by jammer at 11:32 AM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
Not just you. It’s not time for cutesy singing. It’s time to burn the fuckers to the ground and salt the earth they came from.
posted by jammer at 11:32 AM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
What you can do: ActBlue anti-Trumpcare Congressional challenger fund. Give to the Democrats who will run against the Republicans who voted for Trumpcare.
posted by scalefree at 11:34 AM on May 4, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 11:34 AM on May 4, 2017 [15 favorites]
Are there enough details available yet to start putting together a web site that would let people put in their demographics and healthcare costs and find out how much they stand to lose? I would support anyone who was working on this. Get the information out.
posted by kitcat at 11:35 AM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by kitcat at 11:35 AM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
So they're about to have a party to celebrate taking health care away from tens of millions of their constituents, but the really crazy part is that it's just the House vote. They've done nothing other than dump a flaming turd in the lap of the Senate and run away, and they're so desperate to say they've accomplished something that they're going to act like they just landed on the moon.
I'm sure the media is all set to go with the narrative about Republicans Are Winners After All, Like We knew They Were All Along, but seriously, Democratic spokespeople need to be out there in force -- to the extent the media will ask their opinions; I am not holding high hopes for NPR -- to point out exactly this. Preferably in these exact words. I wanna hear a *bleep* on the radio, people.
posted by Gelatin at 11:35 AM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
I'm sure the media is all set to go with the narrative about Republicans Are Winners After All, Like We knew They Were All Along, but seriously, Democratic spokespeople need to be out there in force -- to the extent the media will ask their opinions; I am not holding high hopes for NPR -- to point out exactly this. Preferably in these exact words. I wanna hear a *bleep* on the radio, people.
posted by Gelatin at 11:35 AM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
Oh boy, can't wait for the fawning coverage from NPR, CNN, MSNBC et al that frames this as a "major legislative victory for President Trump" without any information at all about how it would harm millions of Americans, including the Trump voters they're otherwise just so concerned about! It's gonna be awesome!
posted by lord_wolf at 11:35 AM on May 4, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by lord_wolf at 11:35 AM on May 4, 2017 [17 favorites]
^ It's up to $116k now kids. They upped the goal to $500k. God I would LOVE to see this fucking thing hit it and more.
posted by yoga at 11:36 AM on May 4, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by yoga at 11:36 AM on May 4, 2017 [21 favorites]
Democrats singing that fucking song just reinforces the fact that it's all a fucking to these people, as they're rich and powerful enough to not have to care about these piddling little healthcare costs.
Gloating that this will give them political gains when people are under threat of dying, not cool.
posted by MartinWisse at 11:36 AM on May 4, 2017 [28 favorites]
Gloating that this will give them political gains when people are under threat of dying, not cool.
posted by MartinWisse at 11:36 AM on May 4, 2017 [28 favorites]
I don't know why my response to the DNC fundraising email from Tom Perez that just showed up was 'NOT NOW TOM!!' when I donated to the ActBlue page about a half an hour ago. I think it's just an irrational venting of extremely rational anger. The ActBlue page shows they've raised $100k in 1 morning and I'll be encouraging others to give too.
posted by TwoWordReview at 11:37 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by TwoWordReview at 11:37 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
major legislative victory for President Trump
I already got a phone push notification that said "...fulfilling a major campaign promise"
posted by theodolite at 11:37 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
I already got a phone push notification that said "...fulfilling a major campaign promise"
posted by theodolite at 11:37 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
... but Democrats need to start referring to Republican politicians -- with no phony exception for "moderates" -- as terrible, horrible, no-good, very bad people. People who would literally take food out of childrens' mouths.
Come on now, get down in the mud. This bill is going to make it harder for new mothers and their infants to get health care, right? By making pregnancy a "pre existing condition" among other things. Losing healthcare in infancy can have a lot of bad health outcomes, including even death. Alright then, so: anyone who votes for this bill is a BABYKILLER. For example:
ELISE STEFANIK IS A BABYKILLER.
Big letters, on a billboard. Wait, what, does that particular term already have some resonance that evokes disgust and loathing among Republican voters? Oh... huh.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 11:37 AM on May 4, 2017 [26 favorites]
Come on now, get down in the mud. This bill is going to make it harder for new mothers and their infants to get health care, right? By making pregnancy a "pre existing condition" among other things. Losing healthcare in infancy can have a lot of bad health outcomes, including even death. Alright then, so: anyone who votes for this bill is a BABYKILLER. For example:
ELISE STEFANIK IS A BABYKILLER.
Big letters, on a billboard. Wait, what, does that particular term already have some resonance that evokes disgust and loathing among Republican voters? Oh... huh.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 11:37 AM on May 4, 2017 [26 favorites]
Fuck it, I'm gonna go get a carton of cigarettes and a case of National Bohemian, because clearly there's not gonna be much point in living long enough to retire.
posted by aspersioncast at 11:38 AM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by aspersioncast at 11:38 AM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm dying for a damned vote count so I can call a local R who voted yes and tell them that I will be funding their challenger.
posted by Existential Dread at 11:38 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Existential Dread at 11:38 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm dying for a damned vote count so I can call a local R who voted yes and tell them that I will be funding their challenger.
Have at it (vote count).
posted by zachlipton at 11:40 AM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
Have at it (vote count).
posted by zachlipton at 11:40 AM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
Oh boy, can't wait for the fawning coverage from NPR, CNN, MSNBC et al that frames this as a "major legislative victory for President Trump"
And, as always, ignoring the fact that Trump has no idea what the fuck is going on and is probably playing golf while most of this is happening. It's a legislative victory for his string holders, not him. grar media
posted by Melismata at 11:40 AM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
And, as always, ignoring the fact that Trump has no idea what the fuck is going on and is probably playing golf while most of this is happening. It's a legislative victory for his string holders, not him. grar media
posted by Melismata at 11:40 AM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
I'm sure the media is all set to go with the narrative about Republicans Are Winners After All, Like We knew They Were All Along...
If I hear any crap about Trump being good at "negotiating", I will hurl. One liberal news outlet was suggesting that Pence actually pulled the Repub hardliners and moderates together. Please get all of our pundits to give credit to Pence. It will infuriate you-know-who. (Not really satisfying enough as a form of revenge... more on the level of itching powder.)
posted by puddledork at 11:41 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
If I hear any crap about Trump being good at "negotiating", I will hurl. One liberal news outlet was suggesting that Pence actually pulled the Repub hardliners and moderates together. Please get all of our pundits to give credit to Pence. It will infuriate you-know-who. (Not really satisfying enough as a form of revenge... more on the level of itching powder.)
posted by puddledork at 11:41 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
can't wait for the fawning coverage from NPR, CNN, MSNBC et al
I quit reading / watching corporate news* regularly after 11/9 and it's one of the few improvements in life by a longshot. Highly recommended. The end of America will not change them, as some of us had - hoped?
*nope, no Facepals either. It's frickin' sweet.
posted by petebest at 11:42 AM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
I quit reading / watching corporate news* regularly after 11/9 and it's one of the few improvements in life by a longshot. Highly recommended. The end of America will not change them, as some of us had - hoped?
*nope, no Facepals either. It's frickin' sweet.
posted by petebest at 11:42 AM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
Every. Fucking. Rep. from NC was a yes. I hate this goddamn state.
posted by yoga at 11:42 AM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by yoga at 11:42 AM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
Yeah, this bill is absolutely going to incentivize abortion, particularly for expectant parents who find out that their baby would have a disability, but also for any woman who gets pregnant and can't afford to pay higher premiums. So yes, in addition to being pro-death, pro-suffering, anti-compassion, anti-choice and anti-life, this bill is pro-abortion, but only in the worst way possible.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:42 AM on May 4, 2017 [68 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:42 AM on May 4, 2017 [68 favorites]
It honestly baffles me, as a non-american, how few mentions of a strike are in the thread.
I honestly don't understand. Is actual protest culture that far gone?
What, if not this, qualifies for a general strike?
posted by _Synesthesia_ at 11:42 AM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
I honestly don't understand. Is actual protest culture that far gone?
What, if not this, qualifies for a general strike?
posted by _Synesthesia_ at 11:42 AM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
Strike and get fired. That's a big part of the reason Americans don't strike.
posted by asteria at 11:44 AM on May 4, 2017 [55 favorites]
posted by asteria at 11:44 AM on May 4, 2017 [55 favorites]
How to strike without getting fired and losing the health insurance I do have?
posted by Fleebnork at 11:44 AM on May 4, 2017 [45 favorites]
posted by Fleebnork at 11:44 AM on May 4, 2017 [45 favorites]
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The democratic process can't save your diseased country.
posted by Yowser at 11:44 AM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 11:44 AM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
_Synesthesia_ - the U.S. is not ideal for a general strike actually working. We have way too many people and are far too large. General strikes work in smaller countries. They actually affect the infrastructure. There are none in our recent history, no one trusts that they won't get fired and most people don't work for unions.
posted by Sophie1 at 11:46 AM on May 4, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Sophie1 at 11:46 AM on May 4, 2017 [14 favorites]
What, if not this, qualifies for a general strike?
70 years of anti-union propaganda, buoyed by the menace of Communist Russia, have made labor organization in this country super difficult. People think striking is immoral and lazy and Unamerican.
posted by dis_integration at 11:46 AM on May 4, 2017 [17 favorites]
70 years of anti-union propaganda, buoyed by the menace of Communist Russia, have made labor organization in this country super difficult. People think striking is immoral and lazy and Unamerican.
posted by dis_integration at 11:46 AM on May 4, 2017 [17 favorites]
Senator Rob Portman statement: "I don't support the House bill as currently construed..."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:46 AM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:46 AM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
66% of Americans don't have a six-month emergency fund; 47% couldn't afford an emergency expense of $400 without selling something or going into debt. That kind of limits the pool of people who can afford to go on strike pretty severely.
posted by zachlipton at 11:48 AM on May 4, 2017 [43 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:48 AM on May 4, 2017 [43 favorites]
To be honest, I do think Americans do better with protests rather than striking. Doing something rather than (seemingly) nothing seems more popular if also more inconvenient.
Anyway, lets work on making Trumpcare do for the Dems in 2018 what Obamacare did for the Repubs in 2010.
posted by asteria at 11:48 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
Anyway, lets work on making Trumpcare do for the Dems in 2018 what Obamacare did for the Repubs in 2010.
posted by asteria at 11:48 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
> What, if not this, qualifies for a general strike?
On one hand, sure, I see your point.
On the other hand - this is a single step. This bill has no chance - none, zip, nada - of becoming law in its current form. It does make it significantly more likely that the Senate will take up the matter and put something together, although that bill won't look like the House bill at all.
And then they will negotiate the differences, subject to the whims of the Senator from Maine and the Senate parliamentarian and the Byrd rule.
So what I'm saying is, I guess, that this bill has a long long way to go before it gets to Trump's desk for his signature.
But yes, it's significantly more likely today that Trump will eventually sign *something*, rather than nothing.
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:48 AM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
On one hand, sure, I see your point.
On the other hand - this is a single step. This bill has no chance - none, zip, nada - of becoming law in its current form. It does make it significantly more likely that the Senate will take up the matter and put something together, although that bill won't look like the House bill at all.
And then they will negotiate the differences, subject to the whims of the Senator from Maine and the Senate parliamentarian and the Byrd rule.
So what I'm saying is, I guess, that this bill has a long long way to go before it gets to Trump's desk for his signature.
But yes, it's significantly more likely today that Trump will eventually sign *something*, rather than nothing.
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:48 AM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
Alyssa Milano on Twitter: If you vote yes on #TRUMPCARE I will make sure every one on my 3 million powerful followers knows your name and number. #VoteNo
You know shit is getting real when Alyssa Milano is throwing her Twitter weight around. (I kid because I love what she's doing.)
posted by orange swan at 11:49 AM on May 4, 2017 [48 favorites]
You know shit is getting real when Alyssa Milano is throwing her Twitter weight around. (I kid because I love what she's doing.)
posted by orange swan at 11:49 AM on May 4, 2017 [48 favorites]
Every single California Republican voted for this shit, many of them in districts Clinton won, despite the fact that California will get $0 in tax credits to help people buy plans.
Can we find out when they land and greet them at the airports?
posted by zachlipton at 11:49 AM on May 4, 2017 [46 favorites]
Can we find out when they land and greet them at the airports?
posted by zachlipton at 11:49 AM on May 4, 2017 [46 favorites]
My GOP rep voted No. An empty comfort, he's only part lizard.
posted by delfin at 11:50 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by delfin at 11:50 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Every. Fucking. Rep. from NC was a yes. I hate this goddamn state.
I direct you to this comment from the American retail thread last month.
Between that, this, and the hog slime pits I'm pretty sure it's the worst of all possible states.
posted by aspersioncast at 11:50 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
I direct you to this comment from the American retail thread last month.
Between that, this, and the hog slime pits I'm pretty sure it's the worst of all possible states.
posted by aspersioncast at 11:50 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
CNN already paving the way for fawning coverage.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:53 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 11:53 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
The Atlantic on Johnson Amendment for places of worship: The IRS already enforces the provision extremely rarely, even when pastors have mailed in tape recordings of potentially law-violating sermons in the hopes of provoking the agency.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:53 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:53 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
That CNN page is infuriating. Agree or disagree with the bill, surely coverage of how it will impact people's lives is more important than whether it satisfies the President's ego?
posted by zachlipton at 11:56 AM on May 4, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:56 AM on May 4, 2017 [15 favorites]
Ok, RedOrGreen, I missed that part in the flurry of posts. This is only the house. Still, it's halfway there. It's no small feat.
And I think dis_integration is right on the money. You need to start finding ways to recover the single biggest weapon you have as the working class. Unions absolutely need to come back. Strikes are some ways off, but you can pave the way back to that power. It's too easy to stomp on you. You can change that.
Marches are beautiful, and effective, but the monsters in charge only care about staying rich. Making a dent there will raise their heads.
posted by _Synesthesia_ at 11:57 AM on May 4, 2017
And I think dis_integration is right on the money. You need to start finding ways to recover the single biggest weapon you have as the working class. Unions absolutely need to come back. Strikes are some ways off, but you can pave the way back to that power. It's too easy to stomp on you. You can change that.
Marches are beautiful, and effective, but the monsters in charge only care about staying rich. Making a dent there will raise their heads.
posted by _Synesthesia_ at 11:57 AM on May 4, 2017
That CNN page is infuriating. Agree or disagree with the bill, surely coverage of how it will impact people's lives is more important than whether it satisfies the President's ego?
CNN: Politics is Sport
posted by nubs at 11:59 AM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
CNN: Politics is Sport
posted by nubs at 11:59 AM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
Marches are beautiful, and effective, but the monsters in charge only care about staying rich. Making a dent there will raise their heads.
This, so much this. When there's money on the line, people jump.
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:00 PM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
This, so much this. When there's money on the line, people jump.
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:00 PM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
@mollyhooper: .@Reince exiting gop cloakroom tells me: "The president stepped up and helped punt the ball into the end zone."
That's, er, not really the result you're trying to achieve with a punt.
posted by zachlipton at 12:01 PM on May 4, 2017 [44 favorites]
That's, er, not really the result you're trying to achieve with a punt.
posted by zachlipton at 12:01 PM on May 4, 2017 [44 favorites]
That's, er, not really the result you're trying to achieve with a punt.
The human skin masks are really coming off fast now that they know no one will care.
posted by Etrigan at 12:03 PM on May 4, 2017 [30 favorites]
The human skin masks are really coming off fast now that they know no one will care.
posted by Etrigan at 12:03 PM on May 4, 2017 [30 favorites]
My GOP rep voted No. An empty comfort, he's only part lizard.
That Republican no vote means nothing. Were they in the undecided column? There was no excuse for being undecided on a bill that was worse than the last one. They were just waiting for the last minute okay from Paul Ryan to tell them their vote wasn't needed and they were free to cover their asses if they were in a trending blue district. If their vote was needed, they would have dutifully said yes.
posted by JackFlash at 12:03 PM on May 4, 2017 [15 favorites]
That Republican no vote means nothing. Were they in the undecided column? There was no excuse for being undecided on a bill that was worse than the last one. They were just waiting for the last minute okay from Paul Ryan to tell them their vote wasn't needed and they were free to cover their asses if they were in a trending blue district. If their vote was needed, they would have dutifully said yes.
posted by JackFlash at 12:03 PM on May 4, 2017 [15 favorites]
I'm dying for a damned vote count so I can call a local R who voted yes and tell them that I will be funding their challenger.
I'll be doing this also, with a link to ActBlue, which is now updating ALL challenged positions in all states. Read it & weep,
NC-2 George Holding Y
NC-5 Virginia Foxx Y
NC-6 Mark Walker Y
NC-7 David Rouzer Y
NC-8 Richard Hudson Y
NC-9 Robert Pittenger Y
NC-10 Patrick T. McHenry Y
NC-11 Mark Meadows Y
NC-13 Ted Budd Y
posted by yoga at 12:05 PM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
I'll be doing this also, with a link to ActBlue, which is now updating ALL challenged positions in all states. Read it & weep,
NC-2 George Holding Y
NC-5 Virginia Foxx Y
NC-6 Mark Walker Y
NC-7 David Rouzer Y
NC-8 Richard Hudson Y
NC-9 Robert Pittenger Y
NC-10 Patrick T. McHenry Y
NC-11 Mark Meadows Y
NC-13 Ted Budd Y
posted by yoga at 12:05 PM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
You know shit is getting real when Alyssa Milano is throwing her Twitter weight around.
She's a seriously interesting follow. She's been going around to the special elections and driving people to vote, so it's not just internet talk. And yes, she's following through on that threat, currently tweeting reminders of scheduled town halls with yes voters.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 12:05 PM on May 4, 2017 [27 favorites]
She's a seriously interesting follow. She's been going around to the special elections and driving people to vote, so it's not just internet talk. And yes, she's following through on that threat, currently tweeting reminders of scheduled town halls with yes voters.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 12:05 PM on May 4, 2017 [27 favorites]
@mollyhooper: .@Reince exiting gop cloakroom tells me: "The president stepped up and helped punt the ball into the end zone."
It's a shame he ended up with a touchback, because it's pretty clear what the Republicans really wanted was a coffin corner punt.
posted by Copronymus at 12:08 PM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
It's a shame he ended up with a touchback, because it's pretty clear what the Republicans really wanted was a coffin corner punt.
posted by Copronymus at 12:08 PM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
I have two GOP Senators whose local offices will be receiving calls asking them to pledge that they will not vote for a healthcare bill without a final CBO analysis, asking them whether my employer's plan is in jeopardy, and telling them that I will hold them personally responsible for the inevitable early deaths that will be caused by reducing people's access to affordable healthcare.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:09 PM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:09 PM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
.@Reince exiting gop cloakroom tells me: "The president stepped up and helped punt the ball into the end zone."
go choke on a baseball battering-stick and stuff yourself upside down into a basketball ring, motherfucker
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:09 PM on May 4, 2017 [33 favorites]
go choke on a baseball battering-stick and stuff yourself upside down into a basketball ring, motherfucker
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:09 PM on May 4, 2017 [33 favorites]
You know shit is getting real when Alyssa Milano is throwing her Twitter weight around.
I just wish she could reunite with the rest of the Halliwell sisters and wreak some serious Power of Three vengeance.
posted by martin q blank at 12:11 PM on May 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
I just wish she could reunite with the rest of the Halliwell sisters and wreak some serious Power of Three vengeance.
posted by martin q blank at 12:11 PM on May 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
What, if not this, qualifies for a general strike?
If you are not in the U.S. you may not realize that most U.S. workers can be fired at will by employers. If you don't show up for work, you are out of a job, no questions asked. And with the Republican AHCA, you probably are also without health insurance.
And in many states it is illegal for government employees to strike and they can and have put strike leaders in jail and fined their unions. In fact, Ronald Reagan famously fired 11,000 federal air traffic controllers who went on strike for better working conditions.
posted by JackFlash at 12:11 PM on May 4, 2017 [42 favorites]
If you are not in the U.S. you may not realize that most U.S. workers can be fired at will by employers. If you don't show up for work, you are out of a job, no questions asked. And with the Republican AHCA, you probably are also without health insurance.
And in many states it is illegal for government employees to strike and they can and have put strike leaders in jail and fined their unions. In fact, Ronald Reagan famously fired 11,000 federal air traffic controllers who went on strike for better working conditions.
posted by JackFlash at 12:11 PM on May 4, 2017 [42 favorites]
Punting the ball into the end zone is usually considered a fuckup missed opportunity.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:11 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 12:11 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Some good analysis from Julie Rovner at KHN, including a brief discussion of the potential Byrd Rule problems that await: A Squeaker In The House Becomes Headache For The Senate: 5 Things To Watch. There's a good argument that huge chunks of this are dead on arrival in the Senate because they can't be passed under reconciliation.
That's not a real reason to be optimistic—they can still do a ton of damage—, but I think they know this too, and that's why they're pushing so hard to irrationally celebrate this as a victory right now, because they know this is the high water mark for what they can achieve.
posted by zachlipton at 12:13 PM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
That's not a real reason to be optimistic—they can still do a ton of damage—, but I think they know this too, and that's why they're pushing so hard to irrationally celebrate this as a victory right now, because they know this is the high water mark for what they can achieve.
posted by zachlipton at 12:13 PM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
CNN: Politics is Sport
And again, every Democrat needs to hammer on the fact that Trump and the Republicans were this desperate for a win -- just one.
posted by Gelatin at 12:13 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
And again, every Democrat needs to hammer on the fact that Trump and the Republicans were this desperate for a win -- just one.
posted by Gelatin at 12:13 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
Paul Waldman: Every Republican who voted for this abomination must be held accountable (emphasis in original)
I won’t mince words. The health-care bill that the House of Representatives passed this afternoon, in an incredibly narrow 217-to-213 vote, is not just wrong, or misguided, or problematic or foolish. It is an abomination. If there has been a piece of legislation in our lifetimes that boiled over with as much malice and indifference to human suffering, I can’t recall what it might have been. And every member of the House who voted for it must be held accountable.posted by zombieflanders at 12:14 PM on May 4, 2017 [81 favorites]
[...]
It is no exaggeration to say that if it were to become law, this bill would kill significant numbers of Americans. People who lose their Medicaid, don’t go to the doctor, and wind up finding out too late that they’re sick. People whose serious conditions put them up against lifetime limits or render them unable to afford what’s on offer in the high-risk pools, and are suddenly unable to get treatment.
Those deaths are not abstractions, and those who vote to bring them about must be held to account. This can and should be a career-defining vote for every member of the House. No one who votes for something this vicious should be allowed to forget it — ever. They should be challenged about it at every town hall meeting, at every campaign debate, in every election and every day as the letters and phone calls from angry and betrayed constituents make clear the intensity of their revulsion at what their representatives have done.
Perhaps this bill will never become law, and its harm may be averted. But that would not mitigate the moral responsibility of those who supported it. Members of Congress vote on a lot of inconsequential bills and bills that have a small impact on limited areas of American life. But this is one of the most critical moments in recent American political history. The Republican health-care bill is an act of monstrous cruelty. It should stain those who supported it to the end of their days.
[Alyssa Milano]'s a seriously interesting follow.
She is indeed. I only really checked out her account today, and was a little stunned to discover just how progressive, smart, tart, and dedicated she is. Alyssa Milano is especially good at tweeting or retweeting action items, i.e., call this representative, donate to this cause, attend this meeting, etc., and it's clear she does plenty of offline activism herself. And I salute her pinned tweet at the top of her page, "Those that tell me not to tweet politics because I'm an uninformed celebrity are the same people that voted for... an uninformed celebrity."
I followed her, and it wasn't for her acting at all.
posted by orange swan at 12:14 PM on May 4, 2017 [66 favorites]
She is indeed. I only really checked out her account today, and was a little stunned to discover just how progressive, smart, tart, and dedicated she is. Alyssa Milano is especially good at tweeting or retweeting action items, i.e., call this representative, donate to this cause, attend this meeting, etc., and it's clear she does plenty of offline activism herself. And I salute her pinned tweet at the top of her page, "Those that tell me not to tweet politics because I'm an uninformed celebrity are the same people that voted for... an uninformed celebrity."
I followed her, and it wasn't for her acting at all.
posted by orange swan at 12:14 PM on May 4, 2017 [66 favorites]
Just remember: Passing a bill in the House, when you hold a majority in the House, is the easy part.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 12:16 PM on May 4, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by Huffy Puffy at 12:16 PM on May 4, 2017 [15 favorites]
It's all surreal. For what? More military budget? Tax cuts for wealthy? Ego? Liberty? Is it even worth trying to understand the logic anymore?
I have dread of the upcoming family reunion, with the Trump-loving-evangelicals who love picking fights. I'm tired of being political with them. This time its different - "its not politics - I see you mom, and you dad, as ignorant, racist, pieces of shit. The faster you and your generation dies, the better".
posted by H. Roark at 12:16 PM on May 4, 2017 [18 favorites]
I have dread of the upcoming family reunion, with the Trump-loving-evangelicals who love picking fights. I'm tired of being political with them. This time its different - "its not politics - I see you mom, and you dad, as ignorant, racist, pieces of shit. The faster you and your generation dies, the better".
posted by H. Roark at 12:16 PM on May 4, 2017 [18 favorites]
Just remember: Passing a bill in the House, when you hold a majority in the House, is the easy part.
This is the surreal thing. What are they celebrating? They're now having a party to honor the fact that the party that passed bills to repeal Obamacare in the House 60+ times just passed a much more watered down repeal bill now? It's not like they had a big celebration all those other times. This should have been an automatic win for them. Paul Ryan remains pathetic.
posted by zachlipton at 12:19 PM on May 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
This is the surreal thing. What are they celebrating? They're now having a party to honor the fact that the party that passed bills to repeal Obamacare in the House 60+ times just passed a much more watered down repeal bill now? It's not like they had a big celebration all those other times. This should have been an automatic win for them. Paul Ryan remains pathetic.
posted by zachlipton at 12:19 PM on May 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
If I was part of the party that's always pushing "stand your ground" laws, I might be a little more worried about the consequences of publicly trying to kill millions.
posted by IAmUnaware at 12:23 PM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by IAmUnaware at 12:23 PM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm not watching the news, but did this really just happen? How? Why? What? Huh?
@mviser: “I’m president. Heh! I’m president. Can you believe it?” — Donald Trump
posted by zachlipton at 12:24 PM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
@mviser: “I’m president. Heh! I’m president. Can you believe it?” — Donald Trump
posted by zachlipton at 12:24 PM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
What are they celebrating?
Because they're heartless fucks devoid of basic human empathy.
posted by joedan at 12:24 PM on May 4, 2017 [26 favorites]
Because they're heartless fucks devoid of basic human empathy.
posted by joedan at 12:24 PM on May 4, 2017 [26 favorites]
We just passed a bill that polls worse than herpes. Pop the champagne
posted by theodolite at 12:24 PM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 12:24 PM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
@mviser: “I’m president. Heh! I’m president. Can you believe it?” — Donald Trump
To be fair, he probably can't believe it. "Wait, what, they actually fell for my crap? Huh."
posted by Melismata at 12:25 PM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
To be fair, he probably can't believe it. "Wait, what, they actually fell for my crap? Huh."
posted by Melismata at 12:25 PM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
There's a protest at my Rep's local office today but I can't go. She's in Washington anyway. I want to go protest when she's back in town.
I keep wondering if there is going to be a Healthcare March? I think, like the Women's March, it could be a winner. Everyone is affected by this.
posted by emjaybee at 12:27 PM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
I keep wondering if there is going to be a Healthcare March? I think, like the Women's March, it could be a winner. Everyone is affected by this.
posted by emjaybee at 12:27 PM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
My gut says they're celebrating this passage so bigly because they know this thing is mostly DOA in the Senate and it's their only real chance to look like they got a big win. Why else would you act like this when you've only done the easiest part? It's like throwing a huge party at the Superbowl because you got your team to the stadium on time.
posted by Justinian at 12:27 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 12:27 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
Here's the video with some context of his "I'm President" thing.
This is nuts.
posted by zachlipton at 12:28 PM on May 4, 2017 [14 favorites]
This is nuts.
posted by zachlipton at 12:28 PM on May 4, 2017 [14 favorites]
Here's the video with some context of his "I'm President" thing.
.... I seriously thought it was fake.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:29 PM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
.... I seriously thought it was fake.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:29 PM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
General strike
A general strike cannot succeed in this country until people start funding strike funds instead of Congressional races.
posted by corb at 12:29 PM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
A general strike cannot succeed in this country until people start funding strike funds instead of Congressional races.
posted by corb at 12:29 PM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
CNN: Politics is Sport
CNN treats politics like sports — and it’s making us all dumber argues this Vox video from two weeks ago, itself recycling a lot of a NYT article (pull quote: "Zucker is a big sports fan, and from the early days of the campaign had spoken at editorial meetings about wanting to incorporate elements of ESPN’s programming into CNN’s election coverage. “The idea that politics is sport is undeniable, and we understood that and approached it that way,” he told me.")
It's shooting fish in a barrel as far as media analysis goes, but when the water is this fetid and murky, pointing this out is harder than it should be.
CNN already paving the way for fawning coverage.
Here's CNN's feedback page, and their community e-mail addresses are cnn.feedback@cnn.com and community@cnn.com. The corporate office's telephone number is 404-827-1700 and the fax is 404-827-2600 (the DC bureau's phone number is 202-898-7900). The rabid right has been training the media with protest calls and post cards long before the Tea Party, and it's going to take a lot of voice mails on their complaint lines to balance coverage again.
posted by Doktor Zed at 12:30 PM on May 4, 2017 [25 favorites]
CNN treats politics like sports — and it’s making us all dumber argues this Vox video from two weeks ago, itself recycling a lot of a NYT article (pull quote: "Zucker is a big sports fan, and from the early days of the campaign had spoken at editorial meetings about wanting to incorporate elements of ESPN’s programming into CNN’s election coverage. “The idea that politics is sport is undeniable, and we understood that and approached it that way,” he told me.")
It's shooting fish in a barrel as far as media analysis goes, but when the water is this fetid and murky, pointing this out is harder than it should be.
CNN already paving the way for fawning coverage.
Here's CNN's feedback page, and their community e-mail addresses are cnn.feedback@cnn.com and community@cnn.com. The corporate office's telephone number is 404-827-1700 and the fax is 404-827-2600 (the DC bureau's phone number is 202-898-7900). The rabid right has been training the media with protest calls and post cards long before the Tea Party, and it's going to take a lot of voice mails on their complaint lines to balance coverage again.
posted by Doktor Zed at 12:30 PM on May 4, 2017 [25 favorites]
I know this is a complicated subject but at some point I think we need to remember the history of the labor movement and general strikes when talking about their possibility. The people who walked the lines to get us the protections we have today weren't safe. They didn't say "oh I can't I might lose my job". They did it despite knowing they might well get killed much less lose their jobs.
I'm not going to tell someone to go strike and get fired. Because I work for myself so I don't have to worry about it. But I will point out that if people only launched general strikes when they didn't have a possibility of paying a cost we'd still have child labor, company towns, 6 day workweeks, and so much more.
Striking is and has never been cost-free. Sometimes that cost is your body, sometimes it is your job.
posted by Justinian at 12:31 PM on May 4, 2017 [35 favorites]
I'm not going to tell someone to go strike and get fired. Because I work for myself so I don't have to worry about it. But I will point out that if people only launched general strikes when they didn't have a possibility of paying a cost we'd still have child labor, company towns, 6 day workweeks, and so much more.
Striking is and has never been cost-free. Sometimes that cost is your body, sometimes it is your job.
posted by Justinian at 12:31 PM on May 4, 2017 [35 favorites]
ACTBlue donation page.
posted by darkstar at 12:34 PM on May 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
Twenty-four Republicans from districts where Trump won less than 50 percent of the vote in 2016 voted for this bill. Democrats need 24 seats to take back the House. Most of these races don't have Democratic candidates yet or have primaries next year. But we're not waiting till then.Time to fire some of these corrupt, heartless bastards.
Every dollar you contribute to a Democratic Nominee Fund on this page will be transferred to the Democratic nominee when they win their primary next year. That means every dollar will go directly to beating Paul Ryan's majority and taking back the House.
posted by darkstar at 12:34 PM on May 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
The idea that Trump personally came up with a list of persuadable Republicans and gave it to McCarthy and it was the best whip list ever in history is just transparent fellatio. I mean come on.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 12:34 PM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by OverlappingElvis at 12:34 PM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
Today the House passed two bills: firstly H.R.2192, a non-reconciliation bill that will require 60 votes for Senate cloture, which gets rid of the exemption for congresspeople and their staff.
Then they passed H.R.1628, Trumpcare, under reconciliation, so it only requires 50 votes for Senate cloture.
Why didn't they just amend Trumpcare to remove the exemption? My understanding is that this would make the bill ineligible for reconciliation under the Byrd rule.
I'm now wondering if Senate Dems could simply refuse to grant cloture on 2192, arguing that it's absurd and undermines Senate rules. Then Senate GOPers would be voting on a bill which includes that toxic exemption for themselves and their staff.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:36 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Then they passed H.R.1628, Trumpcare, under reconciliation, so it only requires 50 votes for Senate cloture.
Why didn't they just amend Trumpcare to remove the exemption? My understanding is that this would make the bill ineligible for reconciliation under the Byrd rule.
I'm now wondering if Senate Dems could simply refuse to grant cloture on 2192, arguing that it's absurd and undermines Senate rules. Then Senate GOPers would be voting on a bill which includes that toxic exemption for themselves and their staff.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:36 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
WaPo: Donald Trump says he’s a big fan of history. But he doesn’t seem to trust historians.
Trump's first few months as president have been peppered with signs that he and his inner circle may not have an in-depth understanding of historical events.posted by ZeusHumms at 12:36 PM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
“Trump, as our first president with no prior political or military experience, had more to learn than anyone before him,” The Washington Post's James Hohmann wrote last month. “Not only does he lack a lot of historical knowledge, he is also missing institutional memory.”
The idea that Trump personally came up with a list of persuadable Republicans and gave it to McCarthy and it was the best whip list ever in history is just transparent fellatio. I mean come on.
TRUMP'S WHIP LIST:
REPUBLCIANS
MAYBE SOME DEMOCRATS TOO
posted by Etrigan at 12:36 PM on May 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
TRUMP'S WHIP LIST:
REPUBLCIANS
MAYBE SOME DEMOCRATS TOO
posted by Etrigan at 12:36 PM on May 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
@mviser: “I’m president. Heh! I’m president. Can you believe it?” — Donald Trump
Donald Trump wanted to be president in much the same way a four-year-old boy wants to be Superman for Halloween, and he still doesn't have a realizing sense of what the office really entails. He's going to be doing this giddy "LOOK MOM I'M PRESIDENT" shtick for his entire presidency.
posted by orange swan at 12:37 PM on May 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
Donald Trump wanted to be president in much the same way a four-year-old boy wants to be Superman for Halloween, and he still doesn't have a realizing sense of what the office really entails. He's going to be doing this giddy "LOOK MOM I'M PRESIDENT" shtick for his entire presidency.
posted by orange swan at 12:37 PM on May 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
Donald Trump says he’s a big fan of history.
He meant the History Channel. Specifically "Ancient Aliens".
posted by Mister Fabulous at 12:38 PM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
He meant the History Channel. Specifically "Ancient Aliens".
posted by Mister Fabulous at 12:38 PM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
Does H.R.1628 include, for example, the stuff about not subsidizing plans which cover abortion and changing the ratio of prices between older and younger folks? If so I don't see how that can be passed with reconciliation? Or or those things still planned for another bill (which would go nowhere)?
If anyone finds a good, in depth analysis of whats in HR1628 please post it.
posted by Justinian at 12:38 PM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
If anyone finds a good, in depth analysis of whats in HR1628 please post it.
posted by Justinian at 12:38 PM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Donald uses history the way some people use prop books or appliances as set dressing.
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:40 PM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:40 PM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
When there's money on the line, people jump.
you know what else makes people jump? a pitchfork in the tuckus
posted by entropicamericana at 12:42 PM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
you know what else makes people jump? a pitchfork in the tuckus
posted by entropicamericana at 12:42 PM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
Senate is apparently going to write their own bill rather than use House bill.
posted by emjaybee at 12:42 PM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 12:42 PM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
I just hate-called all my reps and let them know I am hurting and angry over this. I cried loudly in their ears. Now I am writing all the people in this picture this:
When a morally bankrupt man who was recorded saying "I moved on her like a bitch" and "I just grab them by the pussy," stands in front of religious leaders and praises God while ripping healthcare from millions you should question the people who ignored the teaching s of Christ to place a malcontent in power. There is nothing Christian, righteous or moral about Trump. You stand next to this man. I see you. God sees you.
It's altered from something Terry Wickwire said on Facebook. They are going to hear my anger. They are going to listen to me cry. Every last one of them. Every day until I can vote the one closest to me out.
posted by dog food sugar at 12:43 PM on May 4, 2017 [55 favorites]
When a morally bankrupt man who was recorded saying "I moved on her like a bitch" and "I just grab them by the pussy," stands in front of religious leaders and praises God while ripping healthcare from millions you should question the people who ignored the teaching s of Christ to place a malcontent in power. There is nothing Christian, righteous or moral about Trump. You stand next to this man. I see you. God sees you.
It's altered from something Terry Wickwire said on Facebook. They are going to hear my anger. They are going to listen to me cry. Every last one of them. Every day until I can vote the one closest to me out.
posted by dog food sugar at 12:43 PM on May 4, 2017 [55 favorites]
Republican Rep. Tom Cole On GOP Health Care Bill (NPR, May 4, 2017 - Morning Edition, so it came out before this vote) -- Republican Rep. Tom Cole of Oklahoma tells Steve Inskeep the House should pass the Republican health care plan. But he says to not sweat the details, because the Senate will change the bill anyway.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:44 PM on May 4, 2017 [17 favorites]
Let me ask you about the bill in the form you're going to vote on, Congressman. There is a provision, as some people will know, which allows states to opt out of some of the provisions of Obamacare, the Affordable Care Act. There are provisions that were quite popular. There are essential benefits that are required in insurance plans. There is protection for people with pre-existing conditions. Now you have a bill that would allow states to opt out of those protections. Why do that?Summarized: the allowance for States to opt out of provisions
COLE: Well, first of all, it - we think it's basic federalism. We think people in Oklahoma probably make better decisions for Oklahomans than people in Washington, D.C. - same in California, same in New York. Second, this particular provision, you know, can't be exercised for several years. In other words, you have to build up the risk pool.
But at the end of the day, you know, you either trust your governor and your state legislature or you don't. In my case, I do. And it's far easier, if they make an error, for people to frankly correct them and - or fire them if they need to, than it is to deal with a sort of faceless, federal bureaucracy that's in many cases thousands of miles away.
INSKEEP: Although you're going to ask your members to make a vote to say I'm going to remove essential benefits - that's how this is going to be framed.
COLE: Well, it will be framed that way probably by critics. But that's really not the case. They're making a vote to say, I'd rather have people in my neighborhood, in my state make this decision than somebody else. And I think at the end of the day, it's very unlikely that any governor of any state will remove the pre-existing conditions clause. And if they do, the people in that state can correct it pretty quickly. And there's all sorts of very stringent conditions that they would have to meet before they could apply for the waiver. And again, remember, they have to apply for the waiver. The waiver has to be approved. So I think it's the appropriate thing to do. But it's not as if there's not a lot of safeguards there.
- Brings back state control on this important issue, out of the hands of faceless DC bureaucrats
- But it can't be exercised for "several years" (how many exactly? *mumble mumble*)
- And even if a Governor does want to opt-out, the waiver has to be approved (by who? Oh, probably some faceless DC bureaucrat, they're bad until they're good)
- And if the Governor makes such an "error" (Cole's own word), it's easier for people "for people to frankly correct them and - or fire them if they need to"
posted by filthy light thief at 12:44 PM on May 4, 2017 [17 favorites]
ZeusHumms: Donald Trump says he’s a big fan of history.
Trump's a fan of history in the same way that actors count their lines when they first get a script. "This Hitler fellow has a whole chapter- he must've been important!"
posted by bluecore at 12:44 PM on May 4, 2017 [14 favorites]
Trump's a fan of history in the same way that actors count their lines when they first get a script. "This Hitler fellow has a whole chapter- he must've been important!"
posted by bluecore at 12:44 PM on May 4, 2017 [14 favorites]
If anyone finds a good, in depth analysis of whats in HR1628 please post it.
Not super in-depth, but this NYT chart is good. Basically everything you hated about the AHCA in March is still in there.
If the first question for Sean Spicer tomorrow isn't "The AHCA cuts Medicaid by $800 billion. Why are you breaking your promise not to cut Medicaid?" I will throw things.
posted by zachlipton at 12:44 PM on May 4, 2017 [32 favorites]
Not super in-depth, but this NYT chart is good. Basically everything you hated about the AHCA in March is still in there.
If the first question for Sean Spicer tomorrow isn't "The AHCA cuts Medicaid by $800 billion. Why are you breaking your promise not to cut Medicaid?" I will throw things.
posted by zachlipton at 12:44 PM on May 4, 2017 [32 favorites]
Senate is apparently going to write their own bill rather than use House bill.
This being the Senate, and subject to Democratic delaying tactics at the very least (which, by the way, every Democratic Senator should use at every opportunity), I doubt they'll get away with the whole "shove it out the door before the CBO gets a chance to score it" trick.
posted by Gelatin at 12:46 PM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
This being the Senate, and subject to Democratic delaying tactics at the very least (which, by the way, every Democratic Senator should use at every opportunity), I doubt they'll get away with the whole "shove it out the door before the CBO gets a chance to score it" trick.
posted by Gelatin at 12:46 PM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
I've got a green post card for my D rep ready to go:
"THANKS FOR NOT BEING A MONSTER!
(PS - THE SINGING WAS GROSS.)"
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:47 PM on May 4, 2017 [28 favorites]
"THANKS FOR NOT BEING A MONSTER!
(PS - THE SINGING WAS GROSS.)"
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:47 PM on May 4, 2017 [28 favorites]
WaPo: Donald Turnip says he’s a big fan of history.
There's a bit from an early episode of Louie where Louie CK gets cornered by a redneck in a diner who wants to introduce the comedian to his sister because "She's a real big fan of you." It's actually really creepy.
posted by aspersioncast at 12:47 PM on May 4, 2017
There's a bit from an early episode of Louie where Louie CK gets cornered by a redneck in a diner who wants to introduce the comedian to his sister because "She's a real big fan of you." It's actually really creepy.
posted by aspersioncast at 12:47 PM on May 4, 2017
I'm glad Donnie and the House Party get a chance to have their little shindig to celebrate a bill which the GOP Senate is refusing to even consider
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:48 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:48 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
cnn.feedback@cnn.com and community@cnn.com
These got bounce-backs for me. Will be calling.
posted by knownassociate at 12:49 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
These got bounce-backs for me. Will be calling.
posted by knownassociate at 12:49 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
Republican Rep. Tom Cole On GOP Health Care Bill (NPR, May 4, 2017 - Morning Edition, so it came out before this vote)
It's only fair that NPR talks to Republicans about the Trump's health care initiative, because during the leadup to Obamacare, they aired the opinions of Republicans.
(Am I suggesting NPR's coverage is slanted toward Republicans? heaven, no -- I'm stating it outright. Feh.)
posted by Gelatin at 12:49 PM on May 4, 2017 [11 favorites]
It's only fair that NPR talks to Republicans about the Trump's health care initiative, because during the leadup to Obamacare, they aired the opinions of Republicans.
(Am I suggesting NPR's coverage is slanted toward Republicans? heaven, no -- I'm stating it outright. Feh.)
posted by Gelatin at 12:49 PM on May 4, 2017 [11 favorites]
I always want to ask these idiots this question whenever I hear that stupid phrase: what exactly is the effective difference between "faceless federal bureaucrats often thousands of miles away" and, what I have to assume are faceless state bureaucrats often hundreds of miles away?
posted by Hairy Lobster at 12:49 PM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Hairy Lobster at 12:49 PM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
States have professional sports teams
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:50 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:50 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
> I know this is a complicated subject but at some point I think we need to remember the history of the labor movement and general strikes when talking about their possibility. The people who walked the lines to get us the protections we have today weren't safe. They didn't say "oh I can't I might lose my job". They did it despite knowing they might well get killed much less lose their jobs.
Absolutely. Class war is a real thing, and it's really war, and it's happening. Recall the Kevin Drum quote that RedOrGreen posted upthread:
> There have been no public hearings. There's no final text. There's no updated CBO score. It is opposed by virtually every patient advocacy group and everyone in the health care industry. Congress is still exempted from the new rules that allow states to waive essential benefits. It raises premiums dramatically for older people. It removes Obamacare's protection against being turned down for a pre-existing condition. It would steadily gut Medicaid spending for the very poorest. It removes coverage from at least 24 million people, probably more. It slashes taxes on the rich by about a trillion dollars over ten years.
This is what class war looks like from their side; a conscious decision by the very rich to make the rest of us suffer and die in order to maintain and extend their power. The money directly received in tax cuts is one part of the benefit they receive from this bill; the other part is that it makes us more dependent upon them for health care, which makes us more desperate, which makes it possible to lower our wages long-term and reduces our (individual and collective) potential to gain enough capital to compete with them.
I am not shocked by this. No one else is shocked by this — really, we're not, none of us were born yesterday and we've all seen the game played for long enough to know how it works. They are not hesitant to make these attacks because we are not fighting back against them. The shit of it is, fighting back against them — making them scared — is going to kill a hell of a lot more of us than it is of them, because that's what happens when an oppressed people tries to rise up.
There are options other than a general strike. For example, a mass debt strike could destabilize the economy enough to provoke a crisis we could capitalize on, and it might be easier to put together in a country where everyone has debt but almost no one has a union.
But all of the options involve people dying in one way or another, because, well, we're not on a nice planet and we're not in nice times. We're at war.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:51 PM on May 4, 2017 [59 favorites]
Absolutely. Class war is a real thing, and it's really war, and it's happening. Recall the Kevin Drum quote that RedOrGreen posted upthread:
> There have been no public hearings. There's no final text. There's no updated CBO score. It is opposed by virtually every patient advocacy group and everyone in the health care industry. Congress is still exempted from the new rules that allow states to waive essential benefits. It raises premiums dramatically for older people. It removes Obamacare's protection against being turned down for a pre-existing condition. It would steadily gut Medicaid spending for the very poorest. It removes coverage from at least 24 million people, probably more. It slashes taxes on the rich by about a trillion dollars over ten years.
This is what class war looks like from their side; a conscious decision by the very rich to make the rest of us suffer and die in order to maintain and extend their power. The money directly received in tax cuts is one part of the benefit they receive from this bill; the other part is that it makes us more dependent upon them for health care, which makes us more desperate, which makes it possible to lower our wages long-term and reduces our (individual and collective) potential to gain enough capital to compete with them.
I am not shocked by this. No one else is shocked by this — really, we're not, none of us were born yesterday and we've all seen the game played for long enough to know how it works. They are not hesitant to make these attacks because we are not fighting back against them. The shit of it is, fighting back against them — making them scared — is going to kill a hell of a lot more of us than it is of them, because that's what happens when an oppressed people tries to rise up.
There are options other than a general strike. For example, a mass debt strike could destabilize the economy enough to provoke a crisis we could capitalize on, and it might be easier to put together in a country where everyone has debt but almost no one has a union.
But all of the options involve people dying in one way or another, because, well, we're not on a nice planet and we're not in nice times. We're at war.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:51 PM on May 4, 2017 [59 favorites]
This is the surreal thing. What are they celebrating?
That they "got a win", so the media has to stop constantly talking about how the Republican agenda is an unpopular failure and Republicans hate each other and themselves and now has to start talking about how principled, compassionate conservatism is once again on the march, bringing freedom and justice to every corner of this great land! And, hey, look, there's CNN.
posted by Copronymus at 12:51 PM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
That they "got a win", so the media has to stop constantly talking about how the Republican agenda is an unpopular failure and Republicans hate each other and themselves and now has to start talking about how principled, compassionate conservatism is once again on the march, bringing freedom and justice to every corner of this great land! And, hey, look, there's CNN.
posted by Copronymus at 12:51 PM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
what exactly is the effective difference between "faceless federal bureaucrats often thousands of miles away" and, what I have to assume are faceless state bureaucrats often hundreds of miles away?
Washington DC is 55 percent African-American.
posted by Etrigan at 12:51 PM on May 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
Washington DC is 55 percent African-American.
posted by Etrigan at 12:51 PM on May 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
Washington Post: January 15, 2017
“We’re going to have insurance for everybody,” Trump said. “There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can’t pay for it, you don’t get it. That’s not going to happen with us.” People covered under the law “can expect to have great health care. It will be in a much simplified form. Much less expensive and much better.”posted by mikelieman at 12:51 PM on May 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
This is the surreal thing. What are they celebrating?
Republicans nationwide are celebrating the fact that poor people will die sooner than they would have if they had healthcare.
ALL OF THEM. Everywhere. If they voted for Trump, or against Clinton, they are murderers. Celebrating the fact that they are murderers. ALL OF THEM. Everywhere. None of their hands are clean.
posted by mikelieman at 12:54 PM on May 4, 2017 [34 favorites]
Republicans nationwide are celebrating the fact that poor people will die sooner than they would have if they had healthcare.
ALL OF THEM. Everywhere. If they voted for Trump, or against Clinton, they are murderers. Celebrating the fact that they are murderers. ALL OF THEM. Everywhere. None of their hands are clean.
posted by mikelieman at 12:54 PM on May 4, 2017 [34 favorites]
Or, for that matter, faceless insurance company bureaucrats who might have been offshored to another country?
I was talking to someone in a position to know last night, and she told me that back in the 80s/90s, Kaiser would refuse to write you a policy on the individual market if you were allergic to penicillin, because then they might be on the hook to pay for your care if some kind of mixup occurred and they caused an allergic reaction. That is what we're going back to. They won't technically be able to deny you a policy under this, but they can jack up the price sky high.
posted by zachlipton at 12:54 PM on May 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
I was talking to someone in a position to know last night, and she told me that back in the 80s/90s, Kaiser would refuse to write you a policy on the individual market if you were allergic to penicillin, because then they might be on the hook to pay for your care if some kind of mixup occurred and they caused an allergic reaction. That is what we're going back to. They won't technically be able to deny you a policy under this, but they can jack up the price sky high.
posted by zachlipton at 12:54 PM on May 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
> COLE: Well, first of all, it - we think it's basic federalism.
Sanctimonious prick Tom Cole doesn't give a wet shit about federalism, and neither does anyone else in his caucus. They'll happily step in to overrule state and municipal self-determination with respect to gun laws, reproductive freedom, and marriage equality. Steve Inskeep needs to do a better job following up on this, but he works for NPR, so he's just going to give sanctimonious prick Tom Cole a platform to peddle his bullshit and thank him for his time.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:54 PM on May 4, 2017 [19 favorites]
Sanctimonious prick Tom Cole doesn't give a wet shit about federalism, and neither does anyone else in his caucus. They'll happily step in to overrule state and municipal self-determination with respect to gun laws, reproductive freedom, and marriage equality. Steve Inskeep needs to do a better job following up on this, but he works for NPR, so he's just going to give sanctimonious prick Tom Cole a platform to peddle his bullshit and thank him for his time.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:54 PM on May 4, 2017 [19 favorites]
“We’re going to have insurance for everybody,” Trump said. “There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can’t pay for it, you don’t get it. That’s not going to happen with us.” People covered under the law “can expect to have great health care. It will be in a much simplified form. Much less expensive and much better.”
He's not wrong. "Pay the first $10,000 and then you get covered up to $500,000 and then you're on the hook for every dollar after that" is pretty simple. And I suppose it is great if you have $10K and your lifetime illnesses are less than $500,000 in care.
posted by Talez at 12:57 PM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
He's not wrong. "Pay the first $10,000 and then you get covered up to $500,000 and then you're on the hook for every dollar after that" is pretty simple. And I suppose it is great if you have $10K and your lifetime illnesses are less than $500,000 in care.
posted by Talez at 12:57 PM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
My heart is warmed to the fact that I'm just getting a busy signal from Pat Toomey's (R-PA) office after multiple calls, not even the answering service. I've been able to get through for the past few weeks and I'm glad that's not the case anymore.
I did get through to Bob Casey's (D-PA) office and let his staffer know that I founded a business recently. I'm hiring people right now (I'm a job creator!) and I'm not going to be able to keep them if the only insurance they have available on the exchange is garbage. I also said thanks when I was told that there was no way he would be cooperating with this mess.
posted by Alison at 12:57 PM on May 4, 2017 [15 favorites]
I did get through to Bob Casey's (D-PA) office and let his staffer know that I founded a business recently. I'm hiring people right now (I'm a job creator!) and I'm not going to be able to keep them if the only insurance they have available on the exchange is garbage. I also said thanks when I was told that there was no way he would be cooperating with this mess.
posted by Alison at 12:57 PM on May 4, 2017 [15 favorites]
and yeah maybe electoral means of fighting back are possible, and definitely I'm in favor of anyone left or center-left who wants to hollow out the Democratic Party and wear it as a skin suit. but we can't expect the Democratic electeds to stop the ongoing war against the lower and middle classes — see, for example, the tweet upthread about Pelosi wanting to keep single payer off the table. The Democrats and Republicans both primarily represent the interests of capital; the Democrats just tend to prefer indirect market-based methods to keep capital in control, whereas the Republicans have a taste for augmenting market control with the direct use of raw force.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:59 PM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:59 PM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
They'll happily step in to overrule state and municipal self-determination with respect to gun laws, reproductive freedom, and marriage equality.
In Wisconsin, the state government is set to pass a law that specifically prohibits Milwaukee County (and maybe the city) from having a wheel tax, while allowing other counties to continue with theirs. It really serves no purpose but to punish the Democratic county and tie their hands even further when it comes to funding.
posted by drezdn at 1:00 PM on May 4, 2017 [20 favorites]
In Wisconsin, the state government is set to pass a law that specifically prohibits Milwaukee County (and maybe the city) from having a wheel tax, while allowing other counties to continue with theirs. It really serves no purpose but to punish the Democratic county and tie their hands even further when it comes to funding.
posted by drezdn at 1:00 PM on May 4, 2017 [20 favorites]
@morningmoneyben: Be interested in polling in a couple days on how many people think Obamacare has now been repealed.
This Rose Garden stunt, thanks to nonsense like the CNN homepage, is really going to work, isn't it? It's the Mission Accomplished banner of 2017. Republicans will see liberal tears and GOP reps celebrating and won't realize the Senate still has to pass something and they have to get it through conference (and Trump has to sign it).
posted by zachlipton at 1:02 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
This Rose Garden stunt, thanks to nonsense like the CNN homepage, is really going to work, isn't it? It's the Mission Accomplished banner of 2017. Republicans will see liberal tears and GOP reps celebrating and won't realize the Senate still has to pass something and they have to get it through conference (and Trump has to sign it).
posted by zachlipton at 1:02 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
So maybe what happens now is that the Senate doesn't even produce a reconciliation bill, because that would be a horrible mess with a horrible CBO score, and takes a very long time to maybe produce a non-reconciliation bill that gets 50 votes but has no chance of getting 60. Then they can blame the Democrats and get on with their lives.
Trump was blaming the Democrats for the initial failure in the GOP House, so this should be a piece of cake.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:03 PM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
Trump was blaming the Democrats for the initial failure in the GOP House, so this should be a piece of cake.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:03 PM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
I don't get the anger with the Dems singing. They are expressing the same anger as we are; this is their version of calling a local rep's office to say "you'll pay for this in 2018, asshole." I don't want the "no" voters to sit somberly with the events underway. That would make this look like a normal vote. It's not normal. It's outrageous.
The only problem I have with the Dems singing is that they didn't pick this song, censors be damned.
posted by Emily's Fist at 1:10 PM on May 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
The only problem I have with the Dems singing is that they didn't pick this song, censors be damned.
posted by Emily's Fist at 1:10 PM on May 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
I don't get the anger with the Dems singing. They are expressing the same anger as we are; this is their version of calling a local rep's office to say "you'll pay for this in 2018, asshole."
The particular song they sang is a common taunt at sporting events in the closing moments of a game. I don't want the Democrats taunting the Republicans like this is a fucking first-round playoff game.
posted by Etrigan at 1:15 PM on May 4, 2017 [24 favorites]
The particular song they sang is a common taunt at sporting events in the closing moments of a game. I don't want the Democrats taunting the Republicans like this is a fucking first-round playoff game.
posted by Etrigan at 1:15 PM on May 4, 2017 [24 favorites]
I don't get the anger with the Dems singing. They are expressing the same anger as we are; this is their version of calling a local rep's office to say "you'll pay for this in 2018, asshole."
Because we keep fucking losing, and with that chant they're counting wins that haven't happened yet. You shouldn't be mocking people for stripping millions of their health coverage based on wins you can't even fucking count on.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:17 PM on May 4, 2017 [43 favorites]
Because we keep fucking losing, and with that chant they're counting wins that haven't happened yet. You shouldn't be mocking people for stripping millions of their health coverage based on wins you can't even fucking count on.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:17 PM on May 4, 2017 [43 favorites]
Tales from Rural Ohio Entry #4,159
Yo.
Yesterday at 11PM I announced an emergency Dump Trumpcare! rally outside our rep's office. I expected one or two folks on such short notice on a Thursday at lunch.
Instead we had 35 people, in the rain, on their lunch, with three news stations and the local NPR joint. Our whole group worked together to make it an earned media event, and the people showed up to make it look impressive.
After we were done standing outside and giving interviews in the rain we marched inside and asked for the Representative's decision. The aid told us, again, that he would listen to our concerns and pass them on.
And tell him we did.
This is a shitty bill, passed by shitty legislators, who give no shits about their constituents. But there are people who care, who will show up in the rain on a Thursday at lunch because they don't want their friends and neighbors to be sick and not be able to get better.
There's so much shittiness in the world but damn if there isn't some good in it, too.
posted by Tevin at 1:17 PM on May 4, 2017 [143 favorites]
Yo.
Yesterday at 11PM I announced an emergency Dump Trumpcare! rally outside our rep's office. I expected one or two folks on such short notice on a Thursday at lunch.
Instead we had 35 people, in the rain, on their lunch, with three news stations and the local NPR joint. Our whole group worked together to make it an earned media event, and the people showed up to make it look impressive.
After we were done standing outside and giving interviews in the rain we marched inside and asked for the Representative's decision. The aid told us, again, that he would listen to our concerns and pass them on.
And tell him we did.
This is a shitty bill, passed by shitty legislators, who give no shits about their constituents. But there are people who care, who will show up in the rain on a Thursday at lunch because they don't want their friends and neighbors to be sick and not be able to get better.
There's so much shittiness in the world but damn if there isn't some good in it, too.
posted by Tevin at 1:17 PM on May 4, 2017 [143 favorites]
Tevin: that's fucking awesome. Go you.
posted by zachlipton at 1:18 PM on May 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 1:18 PM on May 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
That song to me is the song sung before someone was executed, many moons ago. Not a good look for Democrats.
posted by Yowser at 1:18 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 1:18 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yeah, it's a really bad look, and the fact that they're re-enacting what the GOP did to them prior to the Gingrich Revolution makes it look even more like petty score-settling. Your opponents are making themselves look like monsters -- get out of the fucking way and let them do their thing.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:18 PM on May 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 1:18 PM on May 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
I don't get the anger with the Dems singing.
I'm not really angry that they did it. Consider what you'd do if you see someone get gunned down in the street. Would you really think its a good idea to "hey hey goodbye" as the sirens get closer because you're happy they're going to jail? There's a gunshot victim that needs help first before you get petty 'revenge'. It is trivializing a serious threat many people will face. If you're gonna go all pop culture on them for passing it murmuring "shame" would be better imo.
posted by Green With You at 1:24 PM on May 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
I'm not really angry that they did it. Consider what you'd do if you see someone get gunned down in the street. Would you really think its a good idea to "hey hey goodbye" as the sirens get closer because you're happy they're going to jail? There's a gunshot victim that needs help first before you get petty 'revenge'. It is trivializing a serious threat many people will face. If you're gonna go all pop culture on them for passing it murmuring "shame" would be better imo.
posted by Green With You at 1:24 PM on May 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
I just voted to take away your health insurance but you're bad for heckling me. Both sideerism won't be the death of us. Oh wait, both siderism is a preexisting condition - dead.
posted by RedShrek at 1:24 PM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by RedShrek at 1:24 PM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
Former NFL Punter Chris Kluwe weighs in on Reince Priebus's punting quote..
posted by drezdn at 1:25 PM on May 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 1:25 PM on May 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
I got angry enough to make a meme for my fellow NYers
posted by The Whelk at 1:25 PM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 1:25 PM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
I just voted to take away your health insurance but you're bad for heckling me. Both sideerism won't be the death of us.
There's a vast gap between "both sides are bad" and "Ew, that's gross, please don't do that."
posted by Etrigan at 1:27 PM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
There's a vast gap between "both sides are bad" and "Ew, that's gross, please don't do that."
posted by Etrigan at 1:27 PM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
> I just voted to take away your health insurance but you're bad for heckling me.
Yes, both can be bad. The evil of the bill dwarfs the Democrats' stupidity in this case, but said stupidity is precisely what will allow the media to latch on to the both sides narrative.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:28 PM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
Yes, both can be bad. The evil of the bill dwarfs the Democrats' stupidity in this case, but said stupidity is precisely what will allow the media to latch on to the both sides narrative.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:28 PM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
The NY Times featured a "both sides are stretching the truth on pre-existing conditions" story last night where the framing was a flat-out lie -- it cited Pelosi's 17M number and admitted in the story that 17M is the upper-bound estimate on the number of people who would be affected -- so both-siders gonna both-sides no matter what you actually do.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:30 PM on May 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:30 PM on May 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
> so both-siders gonna both-sides no matter what you actually do.
That doesn't mean you hand them the loaded gun. Make them work for it at least.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:32 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
That doesn't mean you hand them the loaded gun. Make them work for it at least.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:32 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
The singing was tacky but I don't want to spend any more time on it.
Also fuck the NYT and their fascist-loving ways right now.
As for Democrats as a party, there's no reason we can't push them left the same way the Tea Party pushed the Rs right. Pelosi might be afraid to say Medicare for All right now, but after a year of people shouting for exactly that, she could change her mind. And other Dems with her.
Medicare for All is easy to remember, simple to conceive of (if not to implement, but we're talking about voters here) and people are in a very heightened state of fear and awareness about healthcare. Now is the time to hammer it, hard.
As a slogan may I suggest "Fuck your stupid wall, give us Medicare for All!"
posted by emjaybee at 1:33 PM on May 4, 2017 [45 favorites]
Also fuck the NYT and their fascist-loving ways right now.
As for Democrats as a party, there's no reason we can't push them left the same way the Tea Party pushed the Rs right. Pelosi might be afraid to say Medicare for All right now, but after a year of people shouting for exactly that, she could change her mind. And other Dems with her.
Medicare for All is easy to remember, simple to conceive of (if not to implement, but we're talking about voters here) and people are in a very heightened state of fear and awareness about healthcare. Now is the time to hammer it, hard.
As a slogan may I suggest "Fuck your stupid wall, give us Medicare for All!"
posted by emjaybee at 1:33 PM on May 4, 2017 [45 favorites]
Not super in-depth, but this NYT chart is good.
"Adds $8 billion over five years to help people with pre-existing medical conditions in an effort to
posted by kirkaracha at 1:33 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
is all consuming incoherent rage a pre-existing condition
posted by localhuman at 1:33 PM on May 4, 2017 [61 favorites]
posted by localhuman at 1:33 PM on May 4, 2017 [61 favorites]
tonycpsu: "Yes, both can be bad. The evil of the bill dwarfs the Democrats' stupidity in this case, but said stupidity is precisely what will allow the media to latch on to the both sides narrative."
I understand that we have higher standards for decorum for Democrats than Republicans, but expecting anything near perfection from Democrats does just as much to perpetuate that narrative.
posted by savetheclocktower at 1:34 PM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
I understand that we have higher standards for decorum for Democrats than Republicans, but expecting anything near perfection from Democrats does just as much to perpetuate that narrative.
posted by savetheclocktower at 1:34 PM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
I just want the Dems to get focused, dammit. And get as fucking pissed as we are.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:35 PM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Existential Dread at 1:35 PM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yep. It's the same thing that led to Trump getting elected. Oh, sure, Trump is much worse but lets talk about Hillary Clinton for the next few weeks.
posted by Justinian at 1:35 PM on May 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 1:35 PM on May 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
That doesn't mean you hand them the loaded gun. Make them work for it at least.
Maybe as a matter of pure principle, but when somebody is holding a John Woo-esque number of loaded guns and wants to shoot you with them, it doesn't materially change anything if they acquire John Woo-plus-one loaded guns. They're still gonna shoot you, and arguing about whether you made it fractionally easier gets in the way of firing back.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:36 PM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
Maybe as a matter of pure principle, but when somebody is holding a John Woo-esque number of loaded guns and wants to shoot you with them, it doesn't materially change anything if they acquire John Woo-plus-one loaded guns. They're still gonna shoot you, and arguing about whether you made it fractionally easier gets in the way of firing back.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:36 PM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
> but expecting anything near perfection
Where is the bar, exactly? Pelosi's (paraphrasing) "abortion isn't an issue anymore" and "single-payer: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯" comments, along with this stupidity, all within less than a week... No, they don't have to be perfect, but this is below replacement-level performance right now.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:37 PM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
Where is the bar, exactly? Pelosi's (paraphrasing) "abortion isn't an issue anymore" and "single-payer: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯" comments, along with this stupidity, all within less than a week... No, they don't have to be perfect, but this is below replacement-level performance right now.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:37 PM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
Mass. Gov. Baker, a Republican (and former CEO of a non-profit HMO), warned a couple days ago the measure would cost the state upwards of $1.5 billion a year by 2022. After the vote, he vowed to fight it in the Senate.
posted by adamg at 1:37 PM on May 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by adamg at 1:37 PM on May 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
ooh, we're playing the songs game! this one is my favorite.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:39 PM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:39 PM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
tonycpsu: "said stupidity is precisely what will allow the media to latch on to the both sides narrative."
Uhh... I don't think "the media" actually needs anything to latch on to to perpetuate both-sidesism. I mean, Exhbit 1 is yesterday's NYT article which called Nancy Pelosi "misleading" for saying “Up to 17 million children who have pre-existing conditions can no longer be denied coverage by insurers.” Why? Because 17 million was the HHS' upper limit estimate. (It is an exercise left to the reader to determine why this was deemed misleading.) If this is the standard, then there is literally nothing any Democrat can do (or avoid doing) that'll immunize them from the media's both-sidesism.
posted by mhum at 1:40 PM on May 4, 2017 [14 favorites]
Uhh... I don't think "the media" actually needs anything to latch on to to perpetuate both-sidesism. I mean, Exhbit 1 is yesterday's NYT article which called Nancy Pelosi "misleading" for saying “Up to 17 million children who have pre-existing conditions can no longer be denied coverage by insurers.” Why? Because 17 million was the HHS' upper limit estimate. (It is an exercise left to the reader to determine why this was deemed misleading.) If this is the standard, then there is literally nothing any Democrat can do (or avoid doing) that'll immunize them from the media's both-sidesism.
posted by mhum at 1:40 PM on May 4, 2017 [14 favorites]
Where is the bar, exactly? Pelosi's (paraphrasing) "abortion isn't an issue anymore" and "single-payer: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯" comments, along with this stupidity, all within less than a week... No, they don't have to be perfect, but this is below replacement-level performance right now.
But her emails!
Lets keep our eyes on the ball guys. The Republicans just voted to kill as many of us as possible in order to cut taxes on the rich.
posted by Justinian at 1:40 PM on May 4, 2017 [23 favorites]
But her emails!
Lets keep our eyes on the ball guys. The Republicans just voted to kill as many of us as possible in order to cut taxes on the rich.
posted by Justinian at 1:40 PM on May 4, 2017 [23 favorites]
said stupidity is precisely what will allow the media to latch on to the both sides narrative
They can always find something to latch onto for that. If they'd been silent, the NYT and CNN would be blethering about why can't they show some emotion and their inability to empathize with common people is why Trump won.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:41 PM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
They can always find something to latch onto for that. If they'd been silent, the NYT and CNN would be blethering about why can't they show some emotion and their inability to empathize with common people is why Trump won.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:41 PM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
> But her emails!
Apples and hand grenades. But it's time for me to take a walk now. Cheers.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:42 PM on May 4, 2017
Apples and hand grenades. But it's time for me to take a walk now. Cheers.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:42 PM on May 4, 2017
ooh, we're playing the songs game! this one yt is my favorite.
Oh man, YCTaB, thank you for this! All I've got is a bunch of pissed off fucking crust going right now, and this is a nice spacer.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:42 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
Oh man, YCTaB, thank you for this! All I've got is a bunch of pissed off fucking crust going right now, and this is a nice spacer.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:42 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
If anyone finds a good, in depth analysis of whats in HR1628 please post it.
It's the exact same bill as the one rejected last month. The only change is the MacArthur Amendment that allows states to opt out of the pre-existing conditions and essential benefits of Obamacare. And the Upton Amendment that provides a trivial amount of money for high risk pools.
So yes, all the other bad stuff is still in there, including defunding Planned Parenthood, prohibiting insurance plans that cover abortion, the 5 to 1 ratio of old to young premiums, the elimination of cost sharing reductions, cuts to Medicaid and massive cuts to subsidies.
Oh, and $1 trillion of tax cuts for the rich. Don't forget that.
posted by JackFlash at 1:44 PM on May 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
It's the exact same bill as the one rejected last month. The only change is the MacArthur Amendment that allows states to opt out of the pre-existing conditions and essential benefits of Obamacare. And the Upton Amendment that provides a trivial amount of money for high risk pools.
So yes, all the other bad stuff is still in there, including defunding Planned Parenthood, prohibiting insurance plans that cover abortion, the 5 to 1 ratio of old to young premiums, the elimination of cost sharing reductions, cuts to Medicaid and massive cuts to subsidies.
Oh, and $1 trillion of tax cuts for the rich. Don't forget that.
posted by JackFlash at 1:44 PM on May 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
If you want to target a specific vulnerable Republican in a specific district, you can donate to "whoever gets the Democratic nomination" in the district of your choice from this Swing Left page.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:45 PM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:45 PM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
but expecting anything near perfection
I don't think a standard of "don't behave like you're at a little league game while people are losing health care" is a near perfection demand. Far more importantly, I don't think "don't hand the opposition tv-ready ammo for future attack ads" is a near perfection demand either. And I think it's more than just a minor "ugh, be more serious" stance for exactly what Josh Marshall, quoted above, says about House Rs who vote no.
I'm sure they're frustrated and wound up and this represents a relief valve for them. I don't fucking care. The stakes are too high for nonsense.
posted by phearlez at 1:45 PM on May 4, 2017 [11 favorites]
I don't think a standard of "don't behave like you're at a little league game while people are losing health care" is a near perfection demand. Far more importantly, I don't think "don't hand the opposition tv-ready ammo for future attack ads" is a near perfection demand either. And I think it's more than just a minor "ugh, be more serious" stance for exactly what Josh Marshall, quoted above, says about House Rs who vote no.
If your Republican Rep is voting ‘no’, it’s still their vote and their seat which makes Paul Ryan the Speaker. That’s making this possible. If their seat was held by a Democrat (and obviously a number of seats more, not just that one) this wouldn’t be happening. So it’s not just about their vote. They make the majority possible.So when I see House Ds do stupid, pointless things that could impede regaining the House, yeah, I am angry they're not doing better and I am perfectly comfortable with judging them for it. And I have it within me the capacity to have raging fury for the irredeemable soulless fucks who would take away health care from the needy while simultaneously being pissed with those who'd give even an inch to those turds.
I'm sure they're frustrated and wound up and this represents a relief valve for them. I don't fucking care. The stakes are too high for nonsense.
posted by phearlez at 1:45 PM on May 4, 2017 [11 favorites]
There's a special election for a state-senate seat south of Boston in which one of the candidates in the Democratic primary voted for Trump, but he says that's no biggie because he likes the gays and believes in climate change and he voted for Sanders in the primary. Unfortunately for him, one of his opponents actually helped run Sanders's Massachusetts campaign.
posted by adamg at 1:47 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by adamg at 1:47 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
> Oh man, YCTaB, thank you for this! All I've got is a bunch of pissed off fucking crust going right now, and this is a nice spacer.
On the one hand, I can't listen to a bunch of pissed off fucking crust right now cause I forgot my headphones. but I know once I get home I'm gonna be listening to some pissed off fucking crust.
Pretty much every track on this album (x-ray-spex influenced punk by queer/genderqueer radical brown folx) might be relevant to your collective/collectivist interests.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:47 PM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
On the one hand, I can't listen to a bunch of pissed off fucking crust right now cause I forgot my headphones. but I know once I get home I'm gonna be listening to some pissed off fucking crust.
Pretty much every track on this album (x-ray-spex influenced punk by queer/genderqueer radical brown folx) might be relevant to your collective/collectivist interests.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:47 PM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
So yes, all the other bad stuff is still in there, including defunding Planned Parenthood, prohibiting insurance plans that cover abortion, the 5 to 1 ratio of old to young premiums, the elimination of cost sharing reductions, cuts to Medicaid and massive cuts to subsidies.
I don't understand how prohibiting subsidies for plans which cover abortion can survive the Byrd rule. I suppose the House passes everything they want as a reconciliation bill regardless of Senate rules though.
posted by Justinian at 1:49 PM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
I don't understand how prohibiting subsidies for plans which cover abortion can survive the Byrd rule. I suppose the House passes everything they want as a reconciliation bill regardless of Senate rules though.
posted by Justinian at 1:49 PM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
But yet here were talking about the political party that did not vote to strip away healthcare from over 20 million people.
posted by RedShrek at 1:52 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by RedShrek at 1:52 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
I don't understand how prohibiting subsidies for plans which cover abortion can survive the Byrd rule.
Rules? What rules? Have you not been paying attention? There are no rules but Republican rules.
posted by JackFlash at 1:54 PM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
Rules? What rules? Have you not been paying attention? There are no rules but Republican rules.
posted by JackFlash at 1:54 PM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
The GOP made it very clear that they were going to do this. People (white) voted them in and so they did what they said they would do. Simple as.
posted by RedShrek at 1:56 PM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by RedShrek at 1:56 PM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
> But yet here were talking about the political party that did not vote to strip away healthcare from over 20 million people.
Can't make an omelet without hollowing out a major political party and wearing it as a skin suit.
what? that's not how you make omelets?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:58 PM on May 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
Can't make an omelet without hollowing out a major political party and wearing it as a skin suit.
what? that's not how you make omelets?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:58 PM on May 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
The GOP made it very clear that they were going to do this.
They did not make it very clear they would do THIS. The promised they would repeal Obamacare and replace it with some magical fairy world healthcare where no one loses coverage, everyone's premiums go down, and yet at the same time taxes are cut and the mandate is dropped.
They lied.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:59 PM on May 4, 2017 [47 favorites]
They did not make it very clear they would do THIS. The promised they would repeal Obamacare and replace it with some magical fairy world healthcare where no one loses coverage, everyone's premiums go down, and yet at the same time taxes are cut and the mandate is dropped.
They lied.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:59 PM on May 4, 2017 [47 favorites]
"Fuck your stupid wall, give us Medicare for All!"
Just for scansion purposes, I swear, but may I suggest:
"Fuck you and your stupid wall, give us Medicare for All!"
posted by lazaruslong at 2:00 PM on May 4, 2017 [63 favorites]
Just for scansion purposes, I swear, but may I suggest:
"Fuck you and your stupid wall, give us Medicare for All!"
posted by lazaruslong at 2:00 PM on May 4, 2017 [63 favorites]
No, they said they had an alternative and this is the first step towards that. I mean, when you vote, that is a choice. I tend not to absolve people of the responsibility for their choices.
posted by RedShrek at 2:04 PM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by RedShrek at 2:04 PM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
No, they said they had an alternative and this is the first step towards that. I mean, when you vote, that is a choice. I tend not to absolve people of the responsibility for their choices.
Also, in the spirit of Two unicycles and some duct tape, "if you choose not to decide you still have made a choice".
posted by Talez at 2:06 PM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Also, in the spirit of Two unicycles and some duct tape, "if you choose not to decide you still have made a choice".
posted by Talez at 2:06 PM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
I tend not to absolve people of the responsibility for their choices.
Oh, they are responsible for their vote. Because it was their duty as citizens to learn enough about how our healthcare system works to know that what Republicans were promising was impossible. Or at least to listen to those of us who were shouting that at the top of our lungs.
But it doesn't change the fact that Republicans lied, and those lying candidates also need to be held responsible for breaking their (impossible) promises.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:07 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
Oh, they are responsible for their vote. Because it was their duty as citizens to learn enough about how our healthcare system works to know that what Republicans were promising was impossible. Or at least to listen to those of us who were shouting that at the top of our lungs.
But it doesn't change the fact that Republicans lied, and those lying candidates also need to be held responsible for breaking their (impossible) promises.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:07 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
The GOP said they were going to do this, unless you have a completely very different fictional GOP in your mind that talks and acts completely differently.
Now, a fair number of GOP voter probably do, but I'm not sure that level of obvious daydreaming really absolves them.
posted by Artw at 2:08 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Now, a fair number of GOP voter probably do, but I'm not sure that level of obvious daydreaming really absolves them.
posted by Artw at 2:08 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
What was that story about snakes?
posted by Artw at 2:09 PM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 2:09 PM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Here's a link to part of Nancy Pelosi's speech today. "You will have every provision of this bill tattooed on your forehead. You will glow in the dark on this one."
posted by Huffy Puffy at 2:09 PM on May 4, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by Huffy Puffy at 2:09 PM on May 4, 2017 [16 favorites]
But it doesn't change the fact that Republicans lied, and those lying candidates also need to be held responsible for breaking their (impossible) promises.
But if we hold them responsible some woman might be able to have sex with someone and then abort the pregnancy if she does get pregnant from it!
posted by Talez at 2:09 PM on May 4, 2017
But if we hold them responsible some woman might be able to have sex with someone and then abort the pregnancy if she does get pregnant from it!
posted by Talez at 2:09 PM on May 4, 2017
phearlez: " I don't think "don't hand the opposition tv-ready ammo for future attack ads" is a near perfection demand either."
Wait, you’re worried about an attack ad that complains about Democrats being rude to the GOP while the latter were voting to strip millions of Americans of their health insurance?
posted by savetheclocktower at 2:10 PM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
Wait, you’re worried about an attack ad that complains about Democrats being rude to the GOP while the latter were voting to strip millions of Americans of their health insurance?
posted by savetheclocktower at 2:10 PM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
Look, Donald Trump clearly and early on showed he was not just a sexual predator but a liar. Yet, he was backed by a majority of republicans. I am surrounded by some of his voters. Many did not care that he lied. Same thing goes for the party all up. You keep saying the politicians lied as if we don't know that sometimes, people accept being lied to.
posted by RedShrek at 2:10 PM on May 4, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by RedShrek at 2:10 PM on May 4, 2017 [11 favorites]
indubitable: Pelosi: Dems shouldn't run on single payer in 2018
Counter: Dems in the Senate should push Single Payer in 2017. Like, now.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:11 PM on May 4, 2017 [31 favorites]
Counter: Dems in the Senate should push Single Payer in 2017. Like, now.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:11 PM on May 4, 2017 [31 favorites]
The Swing Left donation page is also set up by ActBlue, so it presumably funnels the donations into the same place.
Note: if you don't want four cents of every dollar donated going to DailyKos, you can decide exactly which candidate race gets the donation by clicking the link on that page to expand the form and see individual races.
(The total ActBlue donations for this drive have shot up from $16k to $167k in about an hour and a half, suggesting a good start.)
posted by darkstar at 2:12 PM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
Note: if you don't want four cents of every dollar donated going to DailyKos, you can decide exactly which candidate race gets the donation by clicking the link on that page to expand the form and see individual races.
(The total ActBlue donations for this drive have shot up from $16k to $167k in about an hour and a half, suggesting a good start.)
posted by darkstar at 2:12 PM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
Gelatin: So they're about to have a party to celebrate taking health care away from tens of millions of their constituents, but the really crazy part is that it's just the House vote. They've done nothing other than dump a flaming turd in the lap of the Senate and run away, and they're so desperate to say they've accomplished something that they're going to act like they just landed on the moon.
I wonder of GWB would let them borrow his MISSION ACCOMPLISHED banner.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:13 PM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
I wonder of GWB would let them borrow his MISSION ACCOMPLISHED banner.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:13 PM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
What are they celebrating?
They got to first base and they're dumping the gatorade on the coach
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:13 PM on May 4, 2017 [19 favorites]
They got to first base and they're dumping the gatorade on the coach
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:13 PM on May 4, 2017 [19 favorites]
"You will have every provision of this bill tattooed on your forehead."
How I picture it. Not quite a tattoo but perhaps even more appropriate.
posted by Justinian at 2:13 PM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
How I picture it. Not quite a tattoo but perhaps even more appropriate.
posted by Justinian at 2:13 PM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
Here's a link to part of Nancy Pelosi's speech today. "You will have every provision of this bill tattooed on your forehead. You will glow in the dark on this one."
I mean that'd just put them a little ahead of the rest of us, since the ragged survivors of this coming dark age will all have tattooed foreheads and glow in the dark anyway.
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:13 PM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
I mean that'd just put them a little ahead of the rest of us, since the ragged survivors of this coming dark age will all have tattooed foreheads and glow in the dark anyway.
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:13 PM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
I think chants should avoid using the phrase "give us" because we're not looking to be given something, we're looking to take back our birthright.
so: "Fuck you and your stupid wall, we want medicare for all!"
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:14 PM on May 4, 2017 [46 favorites]
so: "Fuck you and your stupid wall, we want medicare for all!"
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:14 PM on May 4, 2017 [46 favorites]
tonycpsu: "Where is the bar, exactly? Pelosi's (paraphrasing) "abortion isn't an issue anymore" and "single-payer: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯" comments, along with this stupidity, all within less than a week... "
Pelosi is bad in front of a camera. You'll get no argument from me there. She's a great parliamentarian, but stuff she says to the media doesn't reflect official Democratic Party policy. Lots of Democratic congresspeople would vote for a Medicare-for-all bill.
posted by savetheclocktower at 2:18 PM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
Pelosi is bad in front of a camera. You'll get no argument from me there. She's a great parliamentarian, but stuff she says to the media doesn't reflect official Democratic Party policy. Lots of Democratic congresspeople would vote for a Medicare-for-all bill.
posted by savetheclocktower at 2:18 PM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
Wait, you’re worried about an attack ad that complains about Democrats being rude to the GOP while the latter were voting to strip millions of Americans of their health insurance?
Yes, I am worried about every single grodd-damned tiny little thing when it comes to the importance of retaking the House and Senate. If a stupid chant that makes it look like they view this as sport rather than deathly serious might keep enough people home in a few districts then hell to the yeah I am worried about it.
We just finished an election that was probably turned by a statement from the FBI that wouldn't have happened if Huma Abedin's dipshit husband could have stopped sexting young women. I am not in a headspace where I am real inclined to overlook seemingly minor dopey actions that might enable fuckery.
posted by phearlez at 2:27 PM on May 4, 2017 [20 favorites]
Yes, I am worried about every single grodd-damned tiny little thing when it comes to the importance of retaking the House and Senate. If a stupid chant that makes it look like they view this as sport rather than deathly serious might keep enough people home in a few districts then hell to the yeah I am worried about it.
We just finished an election that was probably turned by a statement from the FBI that wouldn't have happened if Huma Abedin's dipshit husband could have stopped sexting young women. I am not in a headspace where I am real inclined to overlook seemingly minor dopey actions that might enable fuckery.
posted by phearlez at 2:27 PM on May 4, 2017 [20 favorites]
In which a Congressman is caught picking his nose on camera during the Rose Garden press conference, and he responds on Twitter to reveal that he has allergies, a pre-existing condition.
posted by zachlipton at 2:29 PM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 2:29 PM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
I think chants should avoid using the phrase "give us" because we're not looking to be given something, we're looking to take back our birthright.
so: "Fuck you and your stupid wall, we want medicare for all!"
I would change "want" to "need", to frame the debate.
posted by jason_steakums at 2:29 PM on May 4, 2017 [17 favorites]
so: "Fuck you and your stupid wall, we want medicare for all!"
I would change "want" to "need", to frame the debate.
posted by jason_steakums at 2:29 PM on May 4, 2017 [17 favorites]
I really enjoy how you workshop my chant, Metafilter.
posted by emjaybee at 2:31 PM on May 4, 2017 [70 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 2:31 PM on May 4, 2017 [70 favorites]
Republicans Get Their Health Bill. But It May Cost Them. (New York Times, May 4, 2017)
posted by filthy light thief at 2:32 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
At the very least, the Senate will take far longer to get its legislative process going. And whatever it passes could end up being so far from the House version that no compromise between the two chambers can be attained. That would mirror the situation House Democrats faced in 2009 when they voted for a politically risky cap-and-trade bill (Wikipedia) that the Senate never took up. Many of them then lost their seats. (Politico, November 3, 2010*)* From Politico article:
...
“The upside for Republicans is that they can return to their districts and tell G.O.P. voters that they acted on a campaign promise,” said Nathan Gonzales, the editor of Inside Elections. “The downside is that the alternative may not go far enough for base Republicans, may go too far for moderate voters, and create a backlash that puts the House majority at risk in 2018.”
Over two dozen lawmakers who favored efforts to clamp down on heat-trapping emissions were swept away on Tuesday's anti-incumbent wave, ushering in a new class of Republicans who doubt global warming science and want to upend President Barack Obama's environmental and energy policies.I just hope that this isn't another case for political amnesia and IOKIYAR.
...
Come January, Obama will be working with a Congress that will have little appetite for the types of sweeping energy reform he sought over the last two years. With the House in Republican hands, some of the climate issue's most vocal advocates have been dislodged from their powerful perches, including Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Energy and Commerce Committee Chairman Henry Waxman.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:32 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
I just donated to ActBlue.
Frankly, I'm done defending Obamacare. Medicare for all.
posted by vibrotronica at 2:34 PM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
Frankly, I'm done defending Obamacare. Medicare for all.
posted by vibrotronica at 2:34 PM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
I support Medicare for All, but please continue to defend Obamacare, because a lot of us depend on the pre-existing condition provisions, which are profoundly threatened by this new bill.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 2:36 PM on May 4, 2017 [42 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 2:36 PM on May 4, 2017 [42 favorites]
What's that? You haven't yet met your Recommended Daily Allowance of outrage? You still have a fuck left to give?
Okay, fine, I give you Ed Rogers: President Trump and the Republican majority show they can govern.
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:36 PM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
Okay, fine, I give you Ed Rogers: President Trump and the Republican majority show they can govern.
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:36 PM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
Frankly, I'm done defending Obamacare. Medicare for all.
You can do both ya'll.
posted by emjaybee at 2:38 PM on May 4, 2017 [17 favorites]
You can do both ya'll.
posted by emjaybee at 2:38 PM on May 4, 2017 [17 favorites]
One of the potential arguments against running with a medicare for all platform is that it can theoretically give support to the narrative that the Republicans were pushing, i.e. that ACA is fundamentally broken.
If you can create a set of talking points that ACA needs to be preserved and then supplemented/supplanted with a Single-payer model then I think you could have a winner but I'm leery about running on Single-Payer until Republicans have killed ACA. Don't give the dickheads in the Senate any excuse to kill ACA.
posted by vuron at 2:39 PM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
If you can create a set of talking points that ACA needs to be preserved and then supplemented/supplanted with a Single-payer model then I think you could have a winner but I'm leery about running on Single-Payer until Republicans have killed ACA. Don't give the dickheads in the Senate any excuse to kill ACA.
posted by vuron at 2:39 PM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Does Trump even know what was in the bill? Do you think he knows it cuts $880 billion from Medicaid when he promised during the campaign it wouldn't be touched?
posted by PenDevil at 2:40 PM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 2:40 PM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
"Medicare" should be the "public option." It is okay with me if it undercuts the private options on price. If that goes on for a little while, it will become Medicare for all eventually.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:42 PM on May 4, 2017
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:42 PM on May 4, 2017
Comey's WikiLeaks discussion didn't get a lot of attention yesterday because of all this nonsense, but it's worth taking a moment and reading Here’s What’s Disturbing About the FBI Director’s Comments on WikiLeaks
posted by zachlipton at 2:44 PM on May 4, 2017
A number of First Amendment activists and media experts have said that charging Assange for his role in distributing leaked documents would threaten journalism. The fact that WikiLeaks receives classified information from anonymous sources and publishes it is no different than what the New York Times does, they argue.I don't think this view is entirely wrong, and insofar as WikiLeaks may be an agent of a foreign intelligence service, there are some real questions to be asked. WikiLeaks often does not act to weigh the risks and benefits of publishing material or to minimize unnecessary harm to people in situations where redactions would do nothing to compromise actual reporting. However, the idea of an FBI director declaring who is and who isn't a "legitimate" journalist based on vague never-before-defined criteria is quite frightening and deserves attention.
FBI director James Comey, however, said in testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee on Wednesday that he believes there are critical differences in what WikiLeaks does and what "legitimate" journalists do in the pursuit of such information.
posted by zachlipton at 2:44 PM on May 4, 2017
I support Medicare for All, but please continue to defend Obamacare, because a lot of us depend on the pre-existing condition provisions, which are profoundly threatened by this new bill.
Today proves that the Republicans will stop at nothing to deny you health care. If you have a pre-existing condition, the only thing that will make you safe is Medicare for all.
posted by vibrotronica at 2:44 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Today proves that the Republicans will stop at nothing to deny you health care. If you have a pre-existing condition, the only thing that will make you safe is Medicare for all.
posted by vibrotronica at 2:44 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Bernie Sanders' outreach efforts for the dems should transition to 100% pushing Medicare for All - it's where he's strongest, he doesn't put his foot in his mouth on that topic, he's a very popular face for it, and it's probably the biggest legacy he can build at this point (at least, as much as I like him, I'm really hoping he doesn't run in 2020...). All of his energy, laser focused on Medicare for All.
posted by jason_steakums at 2:45 PM on May 4, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 2:45 PM on May 4, 2017 [14 favorites]
(at least, as much as I like him, I'm really hoping he doesn't run in 2020...)
Oh, I think we're going to see quite a number of new faces in the 2020 season ...
posted by eclectist at 2:46 PM on May 4, 2017
Oh, I think we're going to see quite a number of new faces in the 2020 season ...
posted by eclectist at 2:46 PM on May 4, 2017
the only thing that will make you safe is Medicare for all.
That will not make you safe. Because the next time Republicans get power they will try to privatize medicare (as the Tories want to do with the NHS in the UK) or else severely underfund it.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:46 PM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
That will not make you safe. Because the next time Republicans get power they will try to privatize medicare (as the Tories want to do with the NHS in the UK) or else severely underfund it.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:46 PM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
Today proves that the Republicans will stop at nothing to deny you health care. If you have a pre-existing condition, the only thing that will make you safe is Medicare for all.I'm a woman in America. Nothing will make me safe. I will never be safe. Medicare for All can be overturned, just like Obamacare can. But right now, the pre-existing conditions provisions in the ACA provide existing protections on which millions of Americans depend and which this bill would take away. If you decline to fight to keep those protections, which currently exist, you are endangering millions of Americans.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 2:47 PM on May 4, 2017 [39 favorites]
That will not make you safe. Because the next time Republicans get power they will try to privatize medicare (as the Tories want to do with the NHS in the UK) or else severely underfund it.
So destroy the Republican party.
posted by vibrotronica at 2:48 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
So destroy the Republican party.
posted by vibrotronica at 2:48 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Act blue fund is over $300,000.
posted by Sophie1 at 2:49 PM on May 4, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Sophie1 at 2:49 PM on May 4, 2017 [14 favorites]
ActBlue cracked $300k. It's giving me hope.
posted by yoga at 2:49 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by yoga at 2:49 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
So destroy the Republican party.Oh, ok. We'll just do that.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 2:49 PM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
Oh, I think we're going to see quite a number of new faces in the 2020 season ...
I fucking hope so. Theoretically we'll reach an end to the demographic dip eroding the deep bench eventually? Seems like if we can reach that before all the fascists weirdos filling in the gap we might survive this.
posted by Artw at 2:50 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
I fucking hope so. Theoretically we'll reach an end to the demographic dip eroding the deep bench eventually? Seems like if we can reach that before all the fascists weirdos filling in the gap we might survive this.
posted by Artw at 2:50 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Oh, ok. We'll just do that.
Maybe you can continue to try to compromise with them. That's worked out great in the past.
posted by vibrotronica at 2:52 PM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Maybe you can continue to try to compromise with them. That's worked out great in the past.
posted by vibrotronica at 2:52 PM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
1) Decide to destroy the Republican Party.
2) ????
3) VICTORY!
I think that was AACs point.
posted by Justinian at 2:53 PM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
2) ????
3) VICTORY!
I think that was AACs point.
posted by Justinian at 2:53 PM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
So destroy the Republican party.
Oh, ok. We'll just do that.
Republicans, if you think about it, why? People don't ask that question, but why are there Republicans?
posted by diogenes at 2:54 PM on May 4, 2017 [52 favorites]
Oh, ok. We'll just do that.
Republicans, if you think about it, why? People don't ask that question, but why are there Republicans?
posted by diogenes at 2:54 PM on May 4, 2017 [52 favorites]
After review of the text, the ACLU says it isn't bothering to sue over the "religious liberty" Executive Order because it is merely "an elaborate photo-op with no discernible policy outcomes." They'll sue if the order results in actual governmental action, but there's no there there to actually bring a case now.
posted by zachlipton at 2:56 PM on May 4, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 2:56 PM on May 4, 2017 [28 favorites]
zachlipton: They'll sue if the order results in actual governmental action, but there's no there there to actually bring a case now.
2017: the year in which one must discern if the president is just preening on TV, or if his words will do real harm.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:59 PM on May 4, 2017 [19 favorites]
2017: the year in which one must discern if the president is just preening on TV, or if his words will do real harm.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:59 PM on May 4, 2017 [19 favorites]
(at least, as much as I like him, I'm really hoping he doesn't run in 2020...)
Oh, I think we're going to see quite a number of new faces in the 2020 season ...
*straightens tie*
posted by The Whelk at 3:00 PM on May 4, 2017 [42 favorites]
Oh, I think we're going to see quite a number of new faces in the 2020 season ...
*straightens tie*
posted by The Whelk at 3:00 PM on May 4, 2017 [42 favorites]
ActBlue cracked $300k. It's giving me hope.
It looks like there are two separate ones, the first one we've been seeing and one run by Daily Kos. The first one has cracked $300k. The other one is almost at $250k. If these are the two separate funds that it looks like, that's $550k.
posted by azpenguin at 3:00 PM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
It looks like there are two separate ones, the first one we've been seeing and one run by Daily Kos. The first one has cracked $300k. The other one is almost at $250k. If these are the two separate funds that it looks like, that's $550k.
posted by azpenguin at 3:00 PM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
^ Pelosi might be afraid to say Medicare for All right now, but after a year of people shouting for exactly that, she could change her mind. And other Dems with her.
Stephen Jaffe is running a campaign to primary Nancy Pelosi from the left. There's your motivator.
posted by indubitable at 3:07 PM on May 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
Stephen Jaffe is running a campaign to primary Nancy Pelosi from the left. There's your motivator.
posted by indubitable at 3:07 PM on May 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
Daily Kos has a smaller pool on ActBlue, FWIW -- 24 Dem Nominees, plus 1 line for Daily Kos, but you can individually select how much you fund for each, if you don't want to toss the same amount to Daily Kos.
By comparison, the "generic" ActBlue pool has 207 individual races.
posted by filthy light thief at 3:07 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
By comparison, the "generic" ActBlue pool has 207 individual races.
posted by filthy light thief at 3:07 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
After review of the text, the ACLU says it isn't bothering to sue over the "religious liberty" Executive Order because it is merely "an elaborate photo-op with no discernible policy outcomes."
Haha. Of course it was (and doesn't).
posted by notyou at 3:08 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Haha. Of course it was (and doesn't).
posted by notyou at 3:08 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Claude Taylor: A source with knowledge of the investigation tells me the FBI has targeted from 28 up to 42 individuals. Watch @KeithOlbermann tomorrow AM
posted by yoga at 3:11 PM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by yoga at 3:11 PM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yeah Stpehen Jaffe is not the guy to beat Pelosi. I hope he stirs things up and makes some noise, because we need that, but don't hold your breath for more, certainly not from someone with zero local name recognition. He does share Bernie's tendency to say stupid things about race though.
posted by zachlipton at 3:12 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 3:12 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
Some good news for a change:
Federal judge orders voter registration to re-open ahead of Ossoff runoff election (GA-06)
posted by darkstar at 3:15 PM on May 4, 2017 [58 favorites]
Federal judge orders voter registration to re-open ahead of Ossoff runoff election (GA-06)
posted by darkstar at 3:15 PM on May 4, 2017 [58 favorites]
Claude Taylor: A source with knowledge of the investigation tells me the FBI has targeted from 28 up to 42 individuals. Watch @KeithOlbermann tomorrow AM
Is that about Russia, or did the FBI reopen the email investigation again? Because the latter wouldn't surprise me.
posted by nubs at 3:24 PM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
Is that about Russia, or did the FBI reopen the email investigation again? Because the latter wouldn't surprise me.
posted by nubs at 3:24 PM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'd feel a lot better about that if he was appearing on something besides Olbermann.
posted by Justinian at 3:25 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 3:25 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Maybe you can continue to try to compromise with them. That's worked out great in the past.
If there's another Democratic administration, no, they shouldn't make any attempts whatsoever to accommodate Republicans at all. Everything should be party line vote, and rip out any quaint obstacles like "tradition" or "filibuster" or "not packing the Supreme Court" to make it happen.
But until then all we can do is try to get back to that point where we have any power at all. This is what "destroying the Republican party" looks like at the moment. Organizing online and in real life, raising awareness, raising money, pressuring elected officials.
We're trying to destroy them even as you're mocking the efforts.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:26 PM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
If there's another Democratic administration, no, they shouldn't make any attempts whatsoever to accommodate Republicans at all. Everything should be party line vote, and rip out any quaint obstacles like "tradition" or "filibuster" or "not packing the Supreme Court" to make it happen.
But until then all we can do is try to get back to that point where we have any power at all. This is what "destroying the Republican party" looks like at the moment. Organizing online and in real life, raising awareness, raising money, pressuring elected officials.
We're trying to destroy them even as you're mocking the efforts.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:26 PM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
Chris Collins admits on CNN that he didn't read the bill.
posted by zachlipton at 3:27 PM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 3:27 PM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
Smug dickhead alert, Rep Brian Mast, R-FL.
posted by dis_integration at 3:32 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 3:32 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
I know I'm late to this postcard parties but I'm having a wonderful time right now sending each republican on that ActBlue list of at-risk Yes voters a postcard that says:
Hi! I just donated $$$ and pledged to actively campaign against you because of how you voted today on my healthcare. Hope you enjoyed the beer. I look forward to watching you lose. Kate in Texas.
Then I put a bunch of girly hearts all around my name. And I make sure I write TEXAS clearly because I bet it digs just a little to hear from this big dumb state.
posted by dog food sugar at 3:34 PM on May 4, 2017 [58 favorites]
Hi! I just donated $$$ and pledged to actively campaign against you because of how you voted today on my healthcare. Hope you enjoyed the beer. I look forward to watching you lose. Kate in Texas.
Then I put a bunch of girly hearts all around my name. And I make sure I write TEXAS clearly because I bet it digs just a little to hear from this big dumb state.
posted by dog food sugar at 3:34 PM on May 4, 2017 [58 favorites]
Well, of course they didn't read it. Why bother? The President is going to punt the ball through the end zone, you don't need a playbook.
posted by nubs at 3:36 PM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by nubs at 3:36 PM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
Some good news for a change:
Federal judge orders voter registration to re-open ahead of Ossoff runoff election (GA-06)
From the immigration ban, to this, to Sally Yates, these judges and lawyers are fucking heroes and monuments should be built in their honor.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:37 PM on May 4, 2017 [29 favorites]
Federal judge orders voter registration to re-open ahead of Ossoff runoff election (GA-06)
From the immigration ban, to this, to Sally Yates, these judges and lawyers are fucking heroes and monuments should be built in their honor.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:37 PM on May 4, 2017 [29 favorites]
> And now: they did bother to read it anyway.
On the one hand, I wish journalistic ethics didn't preclude making up fake provisions of the bill and asking these jerkwads about why they supported the harvesting and trafficking of organs from emergency room patients to fund anti-abortion programs.
On the other hand, there are actual provisions of this monstrous legislation that stop just short of that kind of evil, so really all we need reporters to do is ask them why they supported those.
What we'll get instead are 8-box panel discussions where everyone talks over each other and nobody has to answer for anything.
Off to look for hope at the bottom of a beer growler.
posted by tonycpsu at 3:38 PM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
On the one hand, I wish journalistic ethics didn't preclude making up fake provisions of the bill and asking these jerkwads about why they supported the harvesting and trafficking of organs from emergency room patients to fund anti-abortion programs.
On the other hand, there are actual provisions of this monstrous legislation that stop just short of that kind of evil, so really all we need reporters to do is ask them why they supported those.
What we'll get instead are 8-box panel discussions where everyone talks over each other and nobody has to answer for anything.
Off to look for hope at the bottom of a beer growler.
posted by tonycpsu at 3:38 PM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
[As I am slowly lowered, inescapably bound in heavy chains, into a vat of molten lead:] This will make you all look absolutely terrible next year. The Purity Left doesn't get this, but I've got you right where I want you.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 3:39 PM on May 4, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 3:39 PM on May 4, 2017 [11 favorites]
The President is going to punt the ball through the end zone, you don't need a playbook.
man, I am really out of date on how football works
posted by indubitable at 3:40 PM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
man, I am really out of date on how football works
posted by indubitable at 3:40 PM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
Jia Tolentino at the New Yorker gets in on the Ivanka book bashing party: Ivanka Trump Wrote a Painfully Obvious Book for Basically No One
posted by zachlipton at 3:41 PM on May 4, 2017 [28 favorites]
Like “The Trump Card,” “Women Who Work” is written for an audience whose greatest obstacles are internal, and Ivanka’s advice is, once again, Ivanka-specific. Where, as a twentysomething, she advised women to go into the office on Sundays, she now counsels women to ask for flextime and commit to sending e-mails at night. By the end of the book, she’s basically speaking to no one. Wealthy upper managers with families don’t need to be reminded of the importance of setting goals, and Ivanka’s directives are utterly irrelevant to anyone struggling to pay for childcare and housing at the same time. Women outside the corporate world and creative class do not figure into her vision of endless upward mobility at all. In one chapter, she writes, with a sense of courage that is jaw-droppingly misplaced, “If I can help celebrate the fact that I’m a superengaged mom and unabashedly ambitious entrepreneur, that yes, I’m on a construction site in the morning and at the dinner table with my kids in the evening, I’m going to do that.” And why wouldn’t she? Who wouldn’t celebrate that level of ability and accomplishment—except, maybe, the type of man who would say that putting your wife to work is a dangerous thing? The fundamental dishonesty of Ivanka Trump’s book is clearest in the fact that she never acknowledges the difficulty of knowing, or being governed by, anyone like that.I still can't get over the fact that she classified grocery shopping as "neither urgent nor important." As if "make sure the kids don't starve" isn't one of the highest priorities of parents, and something many struggle damn hard to do.
posted by zachlipton at 3:41 PM on May 4, 2017 [28 favorites]
I hope this Colbert thing takes off so the nation can debate just how much of a fluffer Trump is
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:44 PM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:44 PM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
If Trumpcare can pass the House, it can pass the Senate.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:44 PM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:44 PM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
Today's Trumpcast was an interview with Kate Imbach who wrote Fairytale Prisoner by Choice: The Photographic Eye of Melania Trump. If you want to take a break from being grrrrry about TrumpCare this is an interesting article. It is neither petty nor derogatory, just rather sad. The one and only selfie with Donald that Melania posted on her Instagram Donald looks amazingly good-- relaxed and genuinely smiling but she has cropped most of her face out of the shot. There are many shots of Barron and he is always outside in a big expanse of nature but facing away from the camera so you can't see his face. The only animal photograph (aside from pictures of horses at Mar-A-Lago) is a close-up of a hermit crab. There are lots of selfies but they are usually only parts of herself and that goes for her home as well-- never full pictures of rooms, just close ups of parts. Finally, she takes lots of photographs of the outdoors but always, always through windows.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:44 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:44 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
I still can't get over the fact that she classified grocery shopping as "neither urgent nor important."
She doesn't want to live like common people.
posted by peeedro at 3:45 PM on May 4, 2017 [22 favorites]
She doesn't want to live like common people.
posted by peeedro at 3:45 PM on May 4, 2017 [22 favorites]
I swear to god this is real (the tweet, not the time travel). #TimeTravelTrump writes to America from 2014:
@RealDonaldTrump It’s Thursday. How many people have lost their healthcare today?
posted by scalefree at 3:47 PM on May 4, 2017 [46 favorites]
@RealDonaldTrump It’s Thursday. How many people have lost their healthcare today?
posted by scalefree at 3:47 PM on May 4, 2017 [46 favorites]
So I'm in a cab right now, and the entire southbound West Side Highway is shut down to traffic from 14th to 57th since I guess Trump wants to play Big Military Hero by posing on the Intrepid. I can't remember Obama ever intentionally tying up traffi like this.
On the plus side, it looks like hundreds of protesters across the highway and more on the way. So there's that. If I didn't have to get home for my kid, I'd have joined them
posted by Mchelly at 3:56 PM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
On the plus side, it looks like hundreds of protesters across the highway and more on the way. So there's that. If I didn't have to get home for my kid, I'd have joined them
posted by Mchelly at 3:56 PM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
It's funny how rich people always whine about balancing time to care for their children when they employ nannies and maids who leave their own children at home in order to take care of theirs.
I don't mean funny ha ha.
posted by JackFlash at 4:01 PM on May 4, 2017 [19 favorites]
I don't mean funny ha ha.
posted by JackFlash at 4:01 PM on May 4, 2017 [19 favorites]
I don't care about the singing I just wish the Dems had picked a better song. One with "fuck you" in it, preferably.
posted by asteria at 4:07 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by asteria at 4:07 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
I don't care about the singing I just wish the Dems had picked a better song. One with "fuck you" in it, preferably.
How about "Fuck You" by Lily Allen? It's entirely apt in this case.
posted by Talez at 4:14 PM on May 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
How about "Fuck You" by Lily Allen? It's entirely apt in this case.
posted by Talez at 4:14 PM on May 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
Happy Birthday to me, I guess.
I called my chickenshit senator. Not that Gardner will care. But, if it makes any of you feel better - here in my ~70% red county, "missing : Cory Gardner" posters all over town.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 4:15 PM on May 4, 2017 [18 favorites]
I called my chickenshit senator. Not that Gardner will care. But, if it makes any of you feel better - here in my ~70% red county, "missing : Cory Gardner" posters all over town.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 4:15 PM on May 4, 2017 [18 favorites]
I can't remember Obama ever intentionally tying up traffic like this.
I love Obama as much as anyone, but oh, he so did. I got stuck in LA once, trying to meet a friend for dinner, and there was no way to get across town: all north-south roads were blocked for the President's motorcade. I spent two solid hours trying to go half a mile. (I ended up 20 minutes late to a really great dinner.)
posted by suelac at 4:19 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
I love Obama as much as anyone, but oh, he so did. I got stuck in LA once, trying to meet a friend for dinner, and there was no way to get across town: all north-south roads were blocked for the President's motorcade. I spent two solid hours trying to go half a mile. (I ended up 20 minutes late to a really great dinner.)
posted by suelac at 4:19 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
“I’m president. Heh! I’m president. Can you believe it?” — Donald Trump
This was almost exactly foreseen word-for-word by Comedy Central's The President Show last week. Comparison video. Satire is dead.
posted by zachlipton at 4:20 PM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
This was almost exactly foreseen word-for-word by Comedy Central's The President Show last week. Comparison video. Satire is dead.
posted by zachlipton at 4:20 PM on May 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
On a couple of hours notice I'm with about 50 people outside our congressman's office. Hey hey hey, goodbye has been sung a lot by folks. I need to learn to make signs faster, these people are on their game. I am depressed but here, so I guess that counts for a tiny bit.
posted by PussKillian at 4:25 PM on May 4, 2017 [33 favorites]
posted by PussKillian at 4:25 PM on May 4, 2017 [33 favorites]
Do we have any sort of consensus on whether Claude Taylor is a reliable source? I want to believe but I know that pre-existing bias makes me less rigorous.
posted by Andrhia at 4:38 PM on May 4, 2017
posted by Andrhia at 4:38 PM on May 4, 2017
This Website Will Mail Your Ashes To The GOP If Trumpcare Kills You. Really.
posted by futz at 4:39 PM on May 4, 2017 [36 favorites]
posted by futz at 4:39 PM on May 4, 2017 [36 favorites]
NYC protestors say "Go Away, Loser" (twitter image)
Is Trump even staying in town overnight to see his son?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:40 PM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Is Trump even staying in town overnight to see his son?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:40 PM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Remember when Trump said "what do you have to lose?"
posted by Talez at 4:50 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Talez at 4:50 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
I can't believe anyone could have supported that bill.
To start with, have these legislators no conscience? Please don't come back with a snarky "ha ha of course they don't they're Republicans"; I mean this seriously. I don't consider myself a good person; there are plenty of people I don't like, but I simply couldn't imagine condemning millions of people to a painful, early death. Have they no families? Have they no friends, or religious authorities, or counselors, to tell them they're doing wrong?
And even if they're awful, soulless, inhuman beings who can only treat other people as means and not ends - do they not expect any personal repercussions from this? Do they not expect to face re-election? Can they imagine that voters will not care about it? Perhaps they think that this can't possibly become law, but how does that make it any better?
I just can't understand it.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:50 PM on May 4, 2017 [15 favorites]
To start with, have these legislators no conscience? Please don't come back with a snarky "ha ha of course they don't they're Republicans"; I mean this seriously. I don't consider myself a good person; there are plenty of people I don't like, but I simply couldn't imagine condemning millions of people to a painful, early death. Have they no families? Have they no friends, or religious authorities, or counselors, to tell them they're doing wrong?
And even if they're awful, soulless, inhuman beings who can only treat other people as means and not ends - do they not expect any personal repercussions from this? Do they not expect to face re-election? Can they imagine that voters will not care about it? Perhaps they think that this can't possibly become law, but how does that make it any better?
I just can't understand it.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:50 PM on May 4, 2017 [15 favorites]
I know I'm late to this postcard parties but I'm having a wonderful time right now sending each republican on that ActBlue list of at-risk Yes voters a postcard that says:
Hi! I just donated $$$ and pledged to actively campaign against you because of how you voted today on my healthcare. Hope you enjoyed the beer. I look forward to watching you lose. Kate in Texas.
posted by dog food sugar at 3:34 PM on May 4 [16 favorites +] [!]
Thank you, Kate in Texas! Bill in Chicago is following your lead!!! It's not changing anything that happened today - but I feel good about both donating and writing to tell them about it!
posted by W Grant at 4:53 PM on May 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
Hi! I just donated $$$ and pledged to actively campaign against you because of how you voted today on my healthcare. Hope you enjoyed the beer. I look forward to watching you lose. Kate in Texas.
posted by dog food sugar at 3:34 PM on May 4 [16 favorites +] [!]
Thank you, Kate in Texas! Bill in Chicago is following your lead!!! It's not changing anything that happened today - but I feel good about both donating and writing to tell them about it!
posted by W Grant at 4:53 PM on May 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
It's funny how rich people always whine about balancing time to care for their children when they employ nannies and maids who leave their own children at home in order to take care of theirs.
I don't mean funny ha ha.
posted by JackFlash at 7:01 PM on May 4
You know who should be writing books about how to manage time? Single parents who manage to raise kids, go back to school, work full time, and still show up for PTA. That would be my mom and others like her.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:54 PM on May 4, 2017 [15 favorites]
I don't mean funny ha ha.
posted by JackFlash at 7:01 PM on May 4
You know who should be writing books about how to manage time? Single parents who manage to raise kids, go back to school, work full time, and still show up for PTA. That would be my mom and others like her.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:54 PM on May 4, 2017 [15 favorites]
Happy Birthday to me, I guess.
I have a feeling that it's going to be a shitty year for birthdays for a whole lot of people.
posted by indubitable at 4:56 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
I have a feeling that it's going to be a shitty year for birthdays for a whole lot of people.
posted by indubitable at 4:56 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
I don't care about the singing I just wish the Dems had picked a better song. One with "fuck you" in it, preferably.
I was at the pharmacy the other day and they were playing "Fight Song." I guess it actually came out in 2014, not at the convention but I still thought it was Too Soon.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 4:57 PM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
I was at the pharmacy the other day and they were playing "Fight Song." I guess it actually came out in 2014, not at the convention but I still thought it was Too Soon.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 4:57 PM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Joe in Australia
do they not expect any personal repercussions from this? Nope.
Do they not expect to face re-election? Not fair and democratic elections, no.
Can they imagine that voters will not care about it? Yes, because of ingrained partisanship and hatred of various ethnic and cultural groups.
Perhaps they think that this can't possibly become law, but how does that make it any better? It certainly can possibly become law, and they know it. We're living in a Murphy's Law timeline already and if a possible thing is shitty, its chances of coming to pass seem pretty amplified.
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:59 PM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
do they not expect any personal repercussions from this? Nope.
Do they not expect to face re-election? Not fair and democratic elections, no.
Can they imagine that voters will not care about it? Yes, because of ingrained partisanship and hatred of various ethnic and cultural groups.
Perhaps they think that this can't possibly become law, but how does that make it any better? It certainly can possibly become law, and they know it. We're living in a Murphy's Law timeline already and if a possible thing is shitty, its chances of coming to pass seem pretty amplified.
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:59 PM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
Perhaps they think that this can't possibly become law, but how does that make it any better?
That's exactly what they were told, "This version won't pass in the Senate, don't worry it will all get fixed." The undecideds were probably threatened, cajoled, bribed, and pressured. It is hard to stand up to other people in your group and feel like you could be cut off from power. I can understand them, but I still blame them.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:00 PM on May 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
That's exactly what they were told, "This version won't pass in the Senate, don't worry it will all get fixed." The undecideds were probably threatened, cajoled, bribed, and pressured. It is hard to stand up to other people in your group and feel like you could be cut off from power. I can understand them, but I still blame them.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:00 PM on May 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
Is the full text for the AHCA available somewhere? I'm looking everywhere and I can't find it.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 5:18 PM on May 4, 2017
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 5:18 PM on May 4, 2017
This idiot is going to be reelected , isn't he?
posted by wittgenstein at 5:21 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by wittgenstein at 5:21 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's too soon to be panicking about that, wittgenstein. Trump may be impeached or resign, he may not live that long, he may not run again, or if he does run again he might be handed his ass on a platter. Let's not forget he only won this past election on a technicality by achieving tiny margins in strategic areas and that support for him has not increased since, nor is it likely to do so.
posted by orange swan at 5:23 PM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by orange swan at 5:23 PM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
This idiot is going to be reelected , isn't he?
Given the cavalcade of shitwhistles who voted today, you'll have to be more specific than that.
posted by delfin at 5:26 PM on May 4, 2017 [27 favorites]
Given the cavalcade of shitwhistles who voted today, you'll have to be more specific than that.
posted by delfin at 5:26 PM on May 4, 2017 [27 favorites]
HR 1628 information.
It will be updated in the next couple of days as they get the text of the amendments.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 5:28 PM on May 4, 2017
It will be updated in the next couple of days as they get the text of the amendments.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 5:28 PM on May 4, 2017
Here's the text as reported in the House. To that, you need to add H.R. 2192, which makes Congress and Congressional staff not exempt. I believe you then must further add the MacArthur Amendment, which allows states to opt-out of covering pre-existing conditions and such. You also need to add Upton amendment, which adds the extra $8 billion.
posted by zachlipton at 5:29 PM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 5:29 PM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
>> so: "Fuck you and your stupid wall, we want medicare for all!"
> I would change "want" to "need", to frame the debate.
okay the thread has moved on but I still feel compelled to propose "fuck you and your stupid wall / let's get medicare for all" for metafilter's new chant. it's a call for action, rather than a complaint, and it puts all the agency in the right place.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:38 PM on May 4, 2017 [18 favorites]
> I would change "want" to "need", to frame the debate.
okay the thread has moved on but I still feel compelled to propose "fuck you and your stupid wall / let's get medicare for all" for metafilter's new chant. it's a call for action, rather than a complaint, and it puts all the agency in the right place.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:38 PM on May 4, 2017 [18 favorites]
News roundup!
I condemn reporters sometimes for writing what they really mean on Twitter and then watering everything down to a bland, meaningless, both-sides are right soup in their copy, so it's worth acknowledging and thanking The Post's Ashley Parker for largely avoiding all that in Trump crows about his health-care victory — even though he hasn’t really won yet. She even avoids using the phrase "repeal and replace," which is a campaign promise and inaccurate, in favor of the better "dramatically scale back and overhaul" and highlights the CBO score for context:
posted by zachlipton at 5:42 PM on May 4, 2017 [19 favorites]
I condemn reporters sometimes for writing what they really mean on Twitter and then watering everything down to a bland, meaningless, both-sides are right soup in their copy, so it's worth acknowledging and thanking The Post's Ashley Parker for largely avoiding all that in Trump crows about his health-care victory — even though he hasn’t really won yet. She even avoids using the phrase "repeal and replace," which is a campaign promise and inaccurate, in favor of the better "dramatically scale back and overhaul" and highlights the CBO score for context:
President Trump clapped and pointed. He grinned and nodded. He mouthed praise and boomed exultations.This is also an interesting one, on a business associate of Michael Flynn who performed some kind of work for the campaign,a and nobody will say what exactly he did: The mystery behind a Flynn associate’s quiet work for the Trump campaign:
He even, at one point, turned his back to the lectern to face the House Republican leadership, tossing his arms wide in open embrace before swooping his index fingers above the crowd — as if conducting a symphony of recalcitrant lawmakers who had finally, haltingly, learned how to harmonize.
For a president deprived of signature legislation so far, Thursday’s Rose Garden ceremony for the Republican health-care plan was the sweetest victory.
Except it wasn’t a victory at all, at least not yet.
The Republican plan to dramatically scale back and overhaul President Barack Obama’s health-care law barely eked through the House on Thursday afternoon on its second attempt — and now faces the almost Sisyphean challenge of passing the Senate, where some members have already begun expressing opposition to a plan that could leave 24 million fewer people with health insurance.
Jon Iadonisi, a friend and business associate of former national security adviser Michael Flynn, had two under-the-radar projects underway in the fall of 2016.And here's Trump saying that Australia has better health care than we do (they have universal health care), along with a great Bernie laugh.
One of his companies was helping Flynn with an investigative effort for an ally of the Turkish government — details of which Flynn revealed only after he was forced to step down from his White House post.
At the same time, Iadonisi was also doing work for the Trump campaign, although his role was not publicly reported, according to people familiar with his involvement.
The project Iadonisi was engaged in for Trump’s campaign focused on social media, according to a person with knowledge of the arrangement. What that work consisted of — and why his company was not disclosed as a vendor in campaign finance reports — remains a mystery.
posted by zachlipton at 5:42 PM on May 4, 2017 [19 favorites]
I love this: Fight for the Future is putting up billboards plastering the faces of lawmakers who voted to gut net privacy rules on highways in their districts. Can't we do something like this for those who voted for the health care repeal?
posted by StrawberryPie at 5:49 PM on May 4, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by StrawberryPie at 5:49 PM on May 4, 2017 [21 favorites]
The Republicans are like a boss monster who can't be defeated without 100 health points and they've taken away the health points.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:54 PM on May 4, 2017
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:54 PM on May 4, 2017
The Dutch are digging.
The American real estate development company Bayrock, through which Donald Trump constructed hotels and apartment complexes, used Dutch letter box companies in a network suspected of being involved in money laundering.
Professional advisors Bracewell & Giuliani.
posted by adamvasco at 6:00 PM on May 4, 2017 [18 favorites]
The American real estate development company Bayrock, through which Donald Trump constructed hotels and apartment complexes, used Dutch letter box companies in a network suspected of being involved in money laundering.
Professional advisors Bracewell & Giuliani.
posted by adamvasco at 6:00 PM on May 4, 2017 [18 favorites]
it's worth acknowledging and thanking The Post's Ashley Parker for largely avoiding all that
Note that I'm still grading on the standard media curve here. It would be 10,000 times better if it managed to mention that this is a tax cut for the wealthiest among us paid for by taking health care away from the poorest.
posted by zachlipton at 6:03 PM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
Note that I'm still grading on the standard media curve here. It would be 10,000 times better if it managed to mention that this is a tax cut for the wealthiest among us paid for by taking health care away from the poorest.
posted by zachlipton at 6:03 PM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
have these legislators no conscience? Please don't come back with a snarky "ha ha of course they don't they're Republicans"
Some are genuine psychopaths, so no, no they don't.
Others are believers in various forms of Prosperity Gospel, which while it can be found throughout the world, is strongest in the US. If you're healthy and well off, it's a reflection of your goodness and God's favor upon you and if you're poor or unhealthy, well, you must have done something sinful to deserve it.
In a nasty twist, if you behave unethically for your own financial benefit and get away with it, clearly it's God rewarding you for your being a pillar of light. So go on ahead with your insider trading, it's OK because God likes that you're gay bashing. The proof is in your bank account.
And to an extent, it's a matter of empathy and compassion and how much you care and don't care about people that aren't close to you. We're all guilty of this to some extent. If I took every spare penny I have and donated it to charity, I could keep a bunch of people alive, but I don't. I give what I tell myself is a decent amount, but it could be more. Instead I prioritize myself with savings for sickness/retirement (and some nice possessions now), and my family, and friends, and so on.
The Republican party's leadership is made up of people with much lower empathy and compassion than most of us. They probably wouldn't stomp a homeless person to death in an alley if they could get away with it, but they would feel a lot less guilty about seeing that homeless person shivering in the winter's cold than the average person reading this. They just genuinely care so much less about people that aren't important to them.
posted by Candleman at 6:34 PM on May 4, 2017 [22 favorites]
Some are genuine psychopaths, so no, no they don't.
Others are believers in various forms of Prosperity Gospel, which while it can be found throughout the world, is strongest in the US. If you're healthy and well off, it's a reflection of your goodness and God's favor upon you and if you're poor or unhealthy, well, you must have done something sinful to deserve it.
In a nasty twist, if you behave unethically for your own financial benefit and get away with it, clearly it's God rewarding you for your being a pillar of light. So go on ahead with your insider trading, it's OK because God likes that you're gay bashing. The proof is in your bank account.
And to an extent, it's a matter of empathy and compassion and how much you care and don't care about people that aren't close to you. We're all guilty of this to some extent. If I took every spare penny I have and donated it to charity, I could keep a bunch of people alive, but I don't. I give what I tell myself is a decent amount, but it could be more. Instead I prioritize myself with savings for sickness/retirement (and some nice possessions now), and my family, and friends, and so on.
The Republican party's leadership is made up of people with much lower empathy and compassion than most of us. They probably wouldn't stomp a homeless person to death in an alley if they could get away with it, but they would feel a lot less guilty about seeing that homeless person shivering in the winter's cold than the average person reading this. They just genuinely care so much less about people that aren't important to them.
posted by Candleman at 6:34 PM on May 4, 2017 [22 favorites]
They probably wouldn't stomp a homeless person to death in an alley if they could get away with it, but they would feel a lot less guilty about seeing that homeless person shivering in the winter's cold than the average person reading this.
They wouldn't? They just voted to kill millions of cancer patients and disabled kids and then knocked back some cold ones to the Rocky soundtrack.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:38 PM on May 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
They wouldn't? They just voted to kill millions of cancer patients and disabled kids and then knocked back some cold ones to the Rocky soundtrack.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:38 PM on May 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
Ceterum censeo GOPinem esse delendam.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:55 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 6:55 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
I can't believe anyone could have supported that bill.
they mostly dunno what's in it. the can't know and don't care what the repurcussions might be.
pure tribalism. all they need to know is "our side wrote it." slimy.
posted by j_curiouser at 6:59 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
they mostly dunno what's in it. the can't know and don't care what the repurcussions might be.
pure tribalism. all they need to know is "our side wrote it." slimy.
posted by j_curiouser at 6:59 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
Lewandowski’s firm appears to offer Trump meetings
Lewandowski Exits Lobby Firm Amid Reports of Foreign Clients
Lewandowski said Thursday that his partner, Barry Bennett, and others among the firm’s eight operatives have used his name without his authorization and sought business with foreign clients that he doesn’t want.
“The most important thing is my reputation, and I’ve worked really hard in the face of adversity to try to be successful,” Lewandowski said in an interview.
Ha ha ha. His reputation. He done got caught. If you read the article you will see just how entangled he was. His business is called "Avenue Strategies" and is located on, wait for it, on Pennsylvania Avenue less than a block from the White House. He is DIRTY as hell.
Is this duplicitous POS still collecting a paycheck from CNN?
posted by futz at 7:00 PM on May 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
Lewandowski Exits Lobby Firm Amid Reports of Foreign Clients
Lewandowski said Thursday that his partner, Barry Bennett, and others among the firm’s eight operatives have used his name without his authorization and sought business with foreign clients that he doesn’t want.
“The most important thing is my reputation, and I’ve worked really hard in the face of adversity to try to be successful,” Lewandowski said in an interview.
Ha ha ha. His reputation. He done got caught. If you read the article you will see just how entangled he was. His business is called "Avenue Strategies" and is located on, wait for it, on Pennsylvania Avenue less than a block from the White House. He is DIRTY as hell.
Is this duplicitous POS still collecting a paycheck from CNN?
posted by futz at 7:00 PM on May 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
they would feel a lot less guilty about seeing that homeless person shivering in the winter's cold than the average person reading this
I actually find your choice of words both illuminating and fascinating, particularly your use of the word guilty. Because I think you are both right and wrong - right that Republicans may feel less personal guilt over that situation, and wrong that it's because of a lack of empathy.
Like many Republican women - I can't speak for Republican men - I and my peers are involved in a /lot/ of charity work. We run nonprofits, feed and house the homeless, clean graves, visit the sick and aged, assist children that have lost a parent, advocate for evictees, etc - and that's just a few of the things people do in my own personal circle.
So I don't know that most feel /guilty/ when seeing suffering, unless they've somehow skipped out on charity work. But that's not a lack of empathy for most - rather the contrary.
posted by corb at 7:06 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
I actually find your choice of words both illuminating and fascinating, particularly your use of the word guilty. Because I think you are both right and wrong - right that Republicans may feel less personal guilt over that situation, and wrong that it's because of a lack of empathy.
Like many Republican women - I can't speak for Republican men - I and my peers are involved in a /lot/ of charity work. We run nonprofits, feed and house the homeless, clean graves, visit the sick and aged, assist children that have lost a parent, advocate for evictees, etc - and that's just a few of the things people do in my own personal circle.
So I don't know that most feel /guilty/ when seeing suffering, unless they've somehow skipped out on charity work. But that's not a lack of empathy for most - rather the contrary.
posted by corb at 7:06 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Candidate for Governor of Virginia Tom Perriello put out an ad that sums up today perfectly.
posted by peeedro at 7:06 PM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by peeedro at 7:06 PM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
Cathy McMorris Rodgers, a Republican rep from Wasnington state, tells WaPo My son has a preexisting condition. He’s one of the reasons I voted for the AHCA. It's mostly a glib rehash of the standard talking points, but she refers to Maine's "invisible" high-risk pools (link appears to be a Repub propaganda site).
So the obvious question is: What are they lying about with Maine's program? I don't have the background to evaluate the claims made in the article.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:26 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
So the obvious question is: What are they lying about with Maine's program? I don't have the background to evaluate the claims made in the article.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:26 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
Talking Points Memo did a good detailed story on Maine's program and the AHCA—GOP’s New Health Care Rallying Cry: Remember The Maine!.
The real catch is that Maine's program was mostly a stop-gap until Obamacare came along, which it did soon after it was established.
Even if you accept high risk pools as a way to lower premiums, and there are a lot of problems with them, they have be fully funded or they death spiral fast. The AHCA's pools are massively underfunded compared to the premiums such pools would have to charge.
posted by zachlipton at 7:36 PM on May 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
The real catch is that Maine's program was mostly a stop-gap until Obamacare came along, which it did soon after it was established.
Even if you accept high risk pools as a way to lower premiums, and there are a lot of problems with them, they have be fully funded or they death spiral fast. The AHCA's pools are massively underfunded compared to the premiums such pools would have to charge.
posted by zachlipton at 7:36 PM on May 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
ELECTIONS NEWS:
** 2018 midterms
** 2018 midterms
-- Since the ACHA vote today, at least $1M has been donated to defeat swing district Yes voters.** GA-06
-- Initial take from Nate Silver - if this is anything like the 2010 reaction to the ACA, 30-some GOP seats could fall. Proof is in the pudding, of course.
-- "A federal judge on Thursday ordered Georgia to temporarily reopen voter registration ahead of a hotly contested congressional runoff in the 6th District."posted by Chrysostom at 7:39 PM on May 4, 2017 [24 favorites]
-- Ossoff has come out strong against the AHCA, Handel is less than full-throated, but supports it.
So I don't know that most feel /guilty/ when seeing suffering, unless they've somehow skipped out on charity work. But that's not a lack of empathy for most - rather the contrary.
So Republicans don't feel guilty when they see suffering because they have TOO MUCH empathy?
This obviously false mirror-universe bullshit is offensive on the best of days, but to claim that Republicans are just burdened with an overabundance of empathy on the day that a Republican controlled body voted to end healthcare for millions of the poorest Americans (and then partied!) is audacious even for you.
And no amount of charity work is enough to cancel out the horrific damage that a Republican voter does by voting Republican. A Republican voter who devotes literally every moment of their day to charity work would still be a significant net negative for the bottom 99% of the economy.
Tell us, how many of the people affected by what happened today will you and your friends be providing comprehensive healthcare for? And, of course, you won't be picking and choosing, you'll just be helping whoever needs it regardless of how much you like their past actions or their political affiliation or their religion or their skin color, right?
posted by IAmUnaware at 7:43 PM on May 4, 2017 [39 favorites]
So Republicans don't feel guilty when they see suffering because they have TOO MUCH empathy?
This obviously false mirror-universe bullshit is offensive on the best of days, but to claim that Republicans are just burdened with an overabundance of empathy on the day that a Republican controlled body voted to end healthcare for millions of the poorest Americans (and then partied!) is audacious even for you.
And no amount of charity work is enough to cancel out the horrific damage that a Republican voter does by voting Republican. A Republican voter who devotes literally every moment of their day to charity work would still be a significant net negative for the bottom 99% of the economy.
Tell us, how many of the people affected by what happened today will you and your friends be providing comprehensive healthcare for? And, of course, you won't be picking and choosing, you'll just be helping whoever needs it regardless of how much you like their past actions or their political affiliation or their religion or their skin color, right?
posted by IAmUnaware at 7:43 PM on May 4, 2017 [39 favorites]
She's lying by not mentioning any numbers whatsoever, for one. High risk pools could work with enough money, but that's probably the least efficient way imaginable to separate out risk, and they've allocated far less than even their own studies say would be required, which probably isn't even enough. And she's lying by omitting the biggest piece of the plan, the Medicaid cuts.
Actually, no. I read it again, she's lying about how insurance fucking works:
With Obamacare, our health- insurance system relies on younger, healthier people subsidizing the costs of the older and sicker. As a result, insurance costs consistently increase to cover the costs of people who are considered “high-risk,” namely those who are sick or who have preexisting conditions.
Yes. And? That's literally what health insurance is. Having young/healthy people with "skin in the game" is a Republican idea. It's also the only way to diffuse risk across a larger population.
Literally nothing in that article is accurate or in good faith. Not one sentence.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:46 PM on May 4, 2017 [28 favorites]
Actually, no. I read it again, she's lying about how insurance fucking works:
With Obamacare, our health- insurance system relies on younger, healthier people subsidizing the costs of the older and sicker. As a result, insurance costs consistently increase to cover the costs of people who are considered “high-risk,” namely those who are sick or who have preexisting conditions.
Yes. And? That's literally what health insurance is. Having young/healthy people with "skin in the game" is a Republican idea. It's also the only way to diffuse risk across a larger population.
Literally nothing in that article is accurate or in good faith. Not one sentence.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:46 PM on May 4, 2017 [28 favorites]
Oh, Jalliah, I am very much looking forward to your future updates about this class.
So update on business ethics class I talked about earlier in the thread.
Episode 2 'Don't You Dare Talk about Capitalism, It Offends Me"
Tonights topic.
'Capitalism in the Canadian Context'
The first part of the chapter was a bit about a business student and the Occupy movement. It was a general, this was what it was about, these were the concerns, these were basic arguments for and basic arguments against and hey so what would you advise Mr Business student about his concerns.
The teacher started the class by showing a couple of minute video done by the Guardian which gave info on what the Occupy 99% thing was all about. It was pretty much a bunch of stats and charts about wealth distribution in the US as well as some starts about income and wage growth under both Clinton and Bush. It mention nothing about parties, nothing about the actual protest and really was nothing but stats and economic facts.
Then the discussion moved on to what are the fundamentals of a capitalist system and discussion about various ethical implications of these fundamentals, both positive and negative. It was a very academic type discussion.
What the discussion wasn't:
-Beyond the reference to the Occupy movement any discussion about the US.
-The only reference to the US was about cars that were made by foreign companies in the US and US companies that make cars in Mexico. The context was talking about consumer choice and the complexity of figuring out where things are made.
-Anti-capitalist - I been party to discussions with actual anti-capitalists. This was not this sort of discussion at all. Not even close.
The American in the class said nothing through the discussion but was visibly defensive, sat with their arms crossed and pished and poshed a couple of times.
Halfway through they suddenly packed up, said they was leaving, that they weren't going to take this bullshit anymore and that they were tired of sitting there and being constantly insulted by people who don't know what they are talking about.
Say what????? Really? Seriously?
No one insulted them. They hadn't even commented on anything. No one brought up anything US at all beyond the car thing.
The only insight I have beyond a bunch of assumptions about political identity and devotion to 'capitalism' like it's some sort of religion, which does seem to be a more American type right wing phenomenom, is that after class the guy who sits beside them said that during the Occupy video she did mutter something about this BS and either 'I come from the 1% or know people in the 1%.' (They really aren't unless they lied to us about their background and is a secret millionaire or something). They appeared to get offended from the get go and it went from there I guess.
Mostly though it confused people in class as to why they appear to have taken the discussion as some sort of personal attack where everyone else was just talking offering different perspectives and opinions about the topic that is 'Capitalism'. There was a bit of discussion about whether we accidentally insulted or attacked them somehow and it was determined that no we really didn't. And then because we are a nice bunch (so stereotypically Canadian) a brief chat about whether we should try to be more sensitive if it upsets them this much. This led to the conclusion that really no that wasn't going to happen because we did absolutely nothing wrong and that they would have to just put the big adult pants on and deal with this bunch of dumb Canadians discussing whatever we want to discuss in whatever way we feel like. And besides they said Trump was ethical so what the hell do they really know anyways.
The End.
posted by Jalliah at 7:47 PM on May 4, 2017 [57 favorites]
So update on business ethics class I talked about earlier in the thread.
Episode 2 'Don't You Dare Talk about Capitalism, It Offends Me"
Tonights topic.
'Capitalism in the Canadian Context'
The first part of the chapter was a bit about a business student and the Occupy movement. It was a general, this was what it was about, these were the concerns, these were basic arguments for and basic arguments against and hey so what would you advise Mr Business student about his concerns.
The teacher started the class by showing a couple of minute video done by the Guardian which gave info on what the Occupy 99% thing was all about. It was pretty much a bunch of stats and charts about wealth distribution in the US as well as some starts about income and wage growth under both Clinton and Bush. It mention nothing about parties, nothing about the actual protest and really was nothing but stats and economic facts.
Then the discussion moved on to what are the fundamentals of a capitalist system and discussion about various ethical implications of these fundamentals, both positive and negative. It was a very academic type discussion.
What the discussion wasn't:
-Beyond the reference to the Occupy movement any discussion about the US.
-The only reference to the US was about cars that were made by foreign companies in the US and US companies that make cars in Mexico. The context was talking about consumer choice and the complexity of figuring out where things are made.
-Anti-capitalist - I been party to discussions with actual anti-capitalists. This was not this sort of discussion at all. Not even close.
The American in the class said nothing through the discussion but was visibly defensive, sat with their arms crossed and pished and poshed a couple of times.
Halfway through they suddenly packed up, said they was leaving, that they weren't going to take this bullshit anymore and that they were tired of sitting there and being constantly insulted by people who don't know what they are talking about.
Say what????? Really? Seriously?
No one insulted them. They hadn't even commented on anything. No one brought up anything US at all beyond the car thing.
The only insight I have beyond a bunch of assumptions about political identity and devotion to 'capitalism' like it's some sort of religion, which does seem to be a more American type right wing phenomenom, is that after class the guy who sits beside them said that during the Occupy video she did mutter something about this BS and either 'I come from the 1% or know people in the 1%.' (They really aren't unless they lied to us about their background and is a secret millionaire or something). They appeared to get offended from the get go and it went from there I guess.
Mostly though it confused people in class as to why they appear to have taken the discussion as some sort of personal attack where everyone else was just talking offering different perspectives and opinions about the topic that is 'Capitalism'. There was a bit of discussion about whether we accidentally insulted or attacked them somehow and it was determined that no we really didn't. And then because we are a nice bunch (so stereotypically Canadian) a brief chat about whether we should try to be more sensitive if it upsets them this much. This led to the conclusion that really no that wasn't going to happen because we did absolutely nothing wrong and that they would have to just put the big adult pants on and deal with this bunch of dumb Canadians discussing whatever we want to discuss in whatever way we feel like. And besides they said Trump was ethical so what the hell do they really know anyways.
The End.
posted by Jalliah at 7:47 PM on May 4, 2017 [57 favorites]
Christian charity can surely cover the cost of chemo drugs, pass the plate.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:48 PM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:48 PM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
It strikes me that at some point in the thread the subject of the homeless people quote was dropped. Just to bring that back, here's the last paragraph of Candleman's comment:
Regardless of whether or not the Republican party's leadership are psychopaths — I think that medicalized phrase is not useful here — corb's statement about the women in the Republican rank-and-file is not responsive to the original comment. quote corb:
As I mentioned above, I think medicalizing the behavior of political officials is not terribly useful, except in cases where the official in question clearly has a severe disorder that badly impairs their cognitive functioning (see: Donald Trump).
I think that Republican party leaders — aside from the core of the trumps org, who are for the most part morons in over their head — are remarkably clearminded about what their interests are and how they intend to go about pursuing them. The rank-and-file may be clearminded about these things also; but because they are less wealthy and powerful, their interests and means can be more communitarian than those pursued and used by the leadership. Unfortunately, the party leaders tend to make their living through preying on communities rather than participating in them, and so the Republican party leadership can turn the communitarian impulses of some members of the Republican base — the ones who aren't whited sepulchers — into a tool against them.
(the same goes for the Democratic party leadership, members of whom make their living off of using the communitarian impulses of the Democratic base as a tool to further the interests of the liberal moneyed classes. Under capitalism, the only way to make a political party into something worthwhile is to ensure that the leaders of the party are, not to put too fine a point on it, fucking terrified of their own base.)
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:52 PM on May 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
The Republican party's leadership is made up of people with much lower empathy and compassion than most of us. They probably wouldn't stomp a homeless person to death in an alley if they could get away with it, but they would feel a lot less guilty about seeing that homeless person shivering in the winter's cold than the average person reading this. They just genuinely care so much less about people that aren't important to them.[emphasis added]
Regardless of whether or not the Republican party's leadership are psychopaths — I think that medicalized phrase is not useful here — corb's statement about the women in the Republican rank-and-file is not responsive to the original comment. quote corb:
Like many Republican women - I can't speak for Republican men - I and my peers are involved in a /lot/ of charity work. We run nonprofits, feed and house the homeless, clean graves, visit the sick and aged, assist children that have lost a parent, advocate for evictees, etc - and that's just a few of the things people do in my own personal circle.It's important to keep the distinction between the leadership and the rank-and-file in mind when considering the nature of political parties.
As I mentioned above, I think medicalizing the behavior of political officials is not terribly useful, except in cases where the official in question clearly has a severe disorder that badly impairs their cognitive functioning (see: Donald Trump).
I think that Republican party leaders — aside from the core of the trumps org, who are for the most part morons in over their head — are remarkably clearminded about what their interests are and how they intend to go about pursuing them. The rank-and-file may be clearminded about these things also; but because they are less wealthy and powerful, their interests and means can be more communitarian than those pursued and used by the leadership. Unfortunately, the party leaders tend to make their living through preying on communities rather than participating in them, and so the Republican party leadership can turn the communitarian impulses of some members of the Republican base — the ones who aren't whited sepulchers — into a tool against them.
(the same goes for the Democratic party leadership, members of whom make their living off of using the communitarian impulses of the Democratic base as a tool to further the interests of the liberal moneyed classes. Under capitalism, the only way to make a political party into something worthwhile is to ensure that the leaders of the party are, not to put too fine a point on it, fucking terrified of their own base.)
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:52 PM on May 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
This NYT article is helpful in looking at what high risk pools really cost and why the funds in the bill aren't nearly enough: Extra Billions for Health Bill? Researchers Say It’s Still Not Enough. Even the wildest dreams of conservatives at the American Enterprise Institute put it at $15-20B/year to cover four million people, and that's in 2010 healthcare dollars with lifetime limits and waiting periods and other awfulness.
posted by zachlipton at 7:52 PM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:52 PM on May 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
Thanks for the info, zach and T.D.. Here's an amusing exchange between CNN and Rep. Joe Barton where he tries to play the Maine card.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:58 PM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:58 PM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
I and my peers are involved in a /lot/ of charity work. We run nonprofits, feed and house the homeless, clean graves ...
See, that's the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats would rather feed all the homeless, not just the ones in your tribe. Democrats would rather keep people out of graves than clean them.
posted by JackFlash at 8:03 PM on May 4, 2017 [18 favorites]
See, that's the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats would rather feed all the homeless, not just the ones in your tribe. Democrats would rather keep people out of graves than clean them.
posted by JackFlash at 8:03 PM on May 4, 2017 [18 favorites]
It's also not useful to over philosophize and create distinctions where none exist. The Republican base votes for leadership because they really believe things like a) charity is a direct replacement for medical care b) the church will provide for the deserving c) not everyone is deserving of care if they've done ____. Leadership has their own overriding goal of course, tax cuts for the rich. But they're able to achieve that goal not because their voters are complete dupes, but because they're intentionally pushing for policy outcomes that reinforce their own church centric totalitarian worldview.
Taking away health security drives desperate people into seeking whatever scraps of help are available, no matter how inadequate. The cruelty here is very much by design, both by "leadership" and "the file". Not one of them gets a pass.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:04 PM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
Taking away health security drives desperate people into seeking whatever scraps of help are available, no matter how inadequate. The cruelty here is very much by design, both by "leadership" and "the file". Not one of them gets a pass.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:04 PM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
in my experience with the Republican party rank and file — god I wish I weren't related to so many goddamned Republicans — I'd hypothesize that it's not that they're lacking in empathy per se, and more that they're very good at coming up on the fly with reasons why empathy isn't appropriate — either prosperity gospel stuff about how the elect are the elect because they're good and the preterite deserve what they get because they're the preterite, or else reasons to assume that the person with whom they could be empathizing is in some way or another faking. My birther sister, for example, has observed that some panhandlers have cars, and that therefore panhandlers are all secretly wealthy grifters.
This is one reason why Republicans are often strongly in favor of communitarian measures to ameliorate types of suffering that people who they know and trust have experienced; the Republicans who support (for example) publicly funded cancer research because one of their children had leukemia, or who oppose gouging by asthma inhaler manufacturers because they have a nephew or niece with severe asthma, or whatever. They know that the suffering caused by leukemia (or whatever) is real, because they've seen it, and so they are capable of generalized empathy in that particular domain. Without direct knowledge that a given type of suffering is real, though, the risk of inconvenient fellow-feeling is mitigated through using victim-blaming and suspicions of malingering to shut empathy down.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:10 PM on May 4, 2017 [53 favorites]
This is one reason why Republicans are often strongly in favor of communitarian measures to ameliorate types of suffering that people who they know and trust have experienced; the Republicans who support (for example) publicly funded cancer research because one of their children had leukemia, or who oppose gouging by asthma inhaler manufacturers because they have a nephew or niece with severe asthma, or whatever. They know that the suffering caused by leukemia (or whatever) is real, because they've seen it, and so they are capable of generalized empathy in that particular domain. Without direct knowledge that a given type of suffering is real, though, the risk of inconvenient fellow-feeling is mitigated through using victim-blaming and suspicions of malingering to shut empathy down.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:10 PM on May 4, 2017 [53 favorites]
My response to this supposed Maine Miracle? The Kansas KlusterfuckTM. You couldn't draw up a more perfect natural experiment for the ideas of supply-side economics than Kansas under Sam Brownback, and it's been a total nightmare. We were told that GOP ideas would create unprecedented growth, but now the state budget is in shambles, and Brownback would kill for Donald Trump's approval rating right about now.
The AHCA is an attempt to take supply-side ideas and apply them to healthcare. Why should we assume this will end any differently? At what time in the last 30 years has any Republican theory of government been proven correct?
posted by tonycpsu at 8:10 PM on May 4, 2017 [22 favorites]
The AHCA is an attempt to take supply-side ideas and apply them to healthcare. Why should we assume this will end any differently? At what time in the last 30 years has any Republican theory of government been proven correct?
posted by tonycpsu at 8:10 PM on May 4, 2017 [22 favorites]
he may not live that long
Holy fuck, I just realized there will be a state funeral for him. I bet he gets quite the tickle micromanaging that spectacle.
posted by bonje at 8:20 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Holy fuck, I just realized there will be a state funeral for him. I bet he gets quite the tickle micromanaging that spectacle.
posted by bonje at 8:20 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
> They know that the suffering caused by leukemia (or whatever) is real, because they've seen it, and so they are capable of generalized empathy in that particular domain.
See also: Nancy Reagan and stem cell research, Dick Cheney and marriage equality, Jeb Bush and immigration, John McCain and torture.
Libertarian Rugged individualist reluctantly calls fire department accepts the need for government interventions that help them and their loved ones.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:21 PM on May 4, 2017 [39 favorites]
See also: Nancy Reagan and stem cell research, Dick Cheney and marriage equality, Jeb Bush and immigration, John McCain and torture.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:21 PM on May 4, 2017 [39 favorites]
If anyone is looking to protest, Indivisible has a good guide to staging a die-in at your representative's next public appearance.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 8:27 PM on May 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 8:27 PM on May 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
Holy fuck, I just realized there will be a state funeral for him.
And someday, someone will tweet a picture comparing the size of the crowd to the one at Obama's.
posted by mrgoat at 8:29 PM on May 4, 2017 [29 favorites]
And someday, someone will tweet a picture comparing the size of the crowd to the one at Obama's.
posted by mrgoat at 8:29 PM on May 4, 2017 [29 favorites]
I was at the pharmacy the other day and they were playing "Fight Song."
My son's kindergarten class likes to use this song for dance time. Let me tell you, if you ever want to explore your repressed heartbreak over how the election went, watching kindergartners dance around the room to Fight Song is a good way to get started.
posted by gerstle at 8:34 PM on May 4, 2017 [16 favorites]
My son's kindergarten class likes to use this song for dance time. Let me tell you, if you ever want to explore your repressed heartbreak over how the election went, watching kindergartners dance around the room to Fight Song is a good way to get started.
posted by gerstle at 8:34 PM on May 4, 2017 [16 favorites]
‘Refugee processing has ground to a halt’: A group of senators wants to know why
Bonus WTFery:
A bipartisan group of senators is demanding a full accounting of refugee processing numbers from the Trump administration, as a global moratorium on Homeland Security officials interviewing resettlement applicants drags into its fourth month.This is monstrous. They're just refusing to interview refugees. At all. For months.
The Department of Homeland Security has not resumed overseas interviews with refugee applicants since President Trump released his first executive order to ban immigrants and visitors from seven Muslim-majority nations and halt all refugee arrivals for 120 days, according to resettlement organizations and Homeland Security officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity. That policy is continuing, they say, despite federal court orders putting significant parts of Trump’s executive immigration orders on hold.
Bonus WTFery:
Trump loves a pageant. Before he was the president of the United States, he was the owner of the Miss Universe Organization. Six years ago, he inquired about whether he could hold the Miss Universe Pageant at Masada, according to Eran Sidis, the spokesman for the Knesset Speaker. It’s unclear when and how Trump first learned about the hilltop fortress, but Masada—synonymous with epic showdowns both gory and glorious—holds a clear appeal to the imagination.posted by zachlipton at 8:43 PM on May 4, 2017 [22 favorites]
corb, YCTaB is correct that I was addressing the leadership specifically. I don't think the average Republican voter would score as poorly on the Voight-Kampff test as those that voted for the bill today.
But charity is a poor replacement for a reliable social net (and I say that as an unabashed capitalist). One of the key things that a social net needs is reliability and ad hoc charities can't offer that. Take food banks as an example - they often run out, especially in hard times. If you have to rely on them and public transportation, simply getting enough food for your family for a week takes an unknown number of hours on an unknown number of days. That makes it so much harder to get a job or the education/training you need for one. Programs like WIC or SNAP don't provide an abundance of food but they provide steady and predictable benefits which allow recipients to gain independence.
I mentioned capitalism above - one of the absolute worst things to allow to happen during a financial downturn is to allow consumer spending to dry up, because then you just get in a death spiral of additional job losses. Reliable government assistance helps prevent some of that.
And as others have mentioned, charity just can't do certain things like act as a Medicaid replacement. It just can't, not in the reality we live in.
And charities can discriminate in ways the government doesn't (the majority of the religious homeless shelters in my city require bible study in exchange for shelter).
The point being that donations to and volunteering for charity are great and I encourage both, but they cannot be a replacement for a government backed safety net and that's something that Republican voters have been consistently putting leaders in place to dismantle. I'll grant that some of them may sleep well at night because they engage in charity work but that's little comfort to the poor that are threatened with the loss of affordable medical care as a result of today's vote.
posted by Candleman at 8:49 PM on May 4, 2017 [61 favorites]
But charity is a poor replacement for a reliable social net (and I say that as an unabashed capitalist). One of the key things that a social net needs is reliability and ad hoc charities can't offer that. Take food banks as an example - they often run out, especially in hard times. If you have to rely on them and public transportation, simply getting enough food for your family for a week takes an unknown number of hours on an unknown number of days. That makes it so much harder to get a job or the education/training you need for one. Programs like WIC or SNAP don't provide an abundance of food but they provide steady and predictable benefits which allow recipients to gain independence.
I mentioned capitalism above - one of the absolute worst things to allow to happen during a financial downturn is to allow consumer spending to dry up, because then you just get in a death spiral of additional job losses. Reliable government assistance helps prevent some of that.
And as others have mentioned, charity just can't do certain things like act as a Medicaid replacement. It just can't, not in the reality we live in.
And charities can discriminate in ways the government doesn't (the majority of the religious homeless shelters in my city require bible study in exchange for shelter).
The point being that donations to and volunteering for charity are great and I encourage both, but they cannot be a replacement for a government backed safety net and that's something that Republican voters have been consistently putting leaders in place to dismantle. I'll grant that some of them may sleep well at night because they engage in charity work but that's little comfort to the poor that are threatened with the loss of affordable medical care as a result of today's vote.
posted by Candleman at 8:49 PM on May 4, 2017 [61 favorites]
the #IAmAPreexistingCondition tag on twitter is sad reading, but gives a sense of what we're fighting for. also, it hasn't been spammed by maga-bots yet.
posted by localhuman at 9:24 PM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by localhuman at 9:24 PM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
Six years ago, he inquired about whether he could hold the Miss Universe Pageant at Masada, according to Eran Sidis, the spokesman for the Knesset Speaker.
*speechless*
posted by zarq at 9:55 PM on May 4, 2017 [11 favorites]
*speechless*
posted by zarq at 9:55 PM on May 4, 2017 [11 favorites]
Charity done for selfish reasons such as ego and the desire for praise is not charity. Applauding harm done to others to make room for such "charity" is not good but evil.
posted by Artw at 10:01 PM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:01 PM on May 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
There are a number of notable things in NYT: Did Trump Snub Turnbull? Our White House Reporter Explains.
First, Trump apparently speaks to Rupert Murdoch almost every day. Kushner talks to Murdoch too.
Second:
First, Trump apparently speaks to Rupert Murdoch almost every day. Kushner talks to Murdoch too.
Second:
Damien: What brings them back?posted by zachlipton at 10:02 PM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
Maggie: There is no paper that captures Trump’s imagination more than The New York Times, except possibly the New York Post. But The Times to him represents Manhattan elites whose approval he has wanted for decades.
Damien: Anything else you think Australia should know about Trump that I haven’t asked?
Maggie: I would strongly recommend people read Tom Wolfe’s the “Bonfire of the Vanities” to better understand this president.
Simultaneously impressive and hilarious that the ACLU is backtracking on suing Trump over the religious executive order on the basis that the order doesn't actually do anything and is thus perfectly constitutional. A lot of organizations have no problem accepting donations for legal showboating when they know they don't have a case. Sometimes they even win!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:05 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:05 PM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
It’s unclear when and how Trump first learned about the hilltop fortress, but Masada—
Masada was a big deal Television miniseries in the early 80s. That's where our TV watching, stuck in the 1970s and 80s President learned about Masada.
posted by notyou at 10:07 PM on May 4, 2017 [20 favorites]
Masada was a big deal Television miniseries in the early 80s. That's where our TV watching, stuck in the 1970s and 80s President learned about Masada.
posted by notyou at 10:07 PM on May 4, 2017 [20 favorites]
My response to this supposed Maine Miracle? The Kansas KlusterfuckTM. You couldn't draw up a more perfect natural experiment for the ideas of supply-side economics than Kansas under Sam Brownback, and it's been a total nightmare.
Forbes says that Kansas is crushing it with an economy that other states can only dream of aspiring to. Kansas has been seeing unprecedented and unparalleled growth. California will file for bankruptcy tomorrow - a story we've been hearing for years and years.
In a world where women let themselves be groped by Falafel O'Reilly because they just want a payout, these narratives make total sense. Up is down, Kansas is a success, and women just play hard to get so they can sue Honest BillO, who only cheats on the wives who deserve it.
I was a lifeguard when I was young, and it's a truism that the drowning will do everything they can to take you with them. You can't reach these people. It's safer not to try.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 10:09 PM on May 4, 2017 [20 favorites]
Forbes says that Kansas is crushing it with an economy that other states can only dream of aspiring to. Kansas has been seeing unprecedented and unparalleled growth. California will file for bankruptcy tomorrow - a story we've been hearing for years and years.
In a world where women let themselves be groped by Falafel O'Reilly because they just want a payout, these narratives make total sense. Up is down, Kansas is a success, and women just play hard to get so they can sue Honest BillO, who only cheats on the wives who deserve it.
I was a lifeguard when I was young, and it's a truism that the drowning will do everything they can to take you with them. You can't reach these people. It's safer not to try.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 10:09 PM on May 4, 2017 [20 favorites]
Aside from doing great work, the ACLU Twitter feed is often pretty funny.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:44 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 10:44 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
notyou: "Masada was a big deal Television miniseries in the early 80s. That's where our TV watching, stuck in the 1970s and 80s President learned about Masada."
Yes! This may be the only thing I have in common with Trump.
If he was like young Chrysostom, he also liked A.D. and the Peter the Great one (Maximillian Schell!)
posted by Chrysostom at 10:48 PM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yes! This may be the only thing I have in common with Trump.
If he was like young Chrysostom, he also liked A.D. and the Peter the Great one (Maximillian Schell!)
posted by Chrysostom at 10:48 PM on May 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
So, what do you guys think the chances are of the senate passing this version of the house vote? I think it is close to zero.
If they do not pass it what do you think the turn around might be for a new bill?
posted by futz at 10:53 PM on May 4, 2017
If they do not pass it what do you think the turn around might be for a new bill?
posted by futz at 10:53 PM on May 4, 2017
Like many Republican women - I can't speak for Republican men - I and my peers are involved in a /lot/ of charity work. We run nonprofits, feed and house the homeless, clean graves, visit the sick and aged, assist children that have lost a parent, advocate for evictees,
Think about this, corb - look at how well that fits into the "traditional" patriarchal gender roles; the women (the mommies) are the soft ones, the kind ones, the ones who kiss the boo-boo and make it better even when the boo-boo is the kids' own fault. This is OK (to people with this view of the world) as long as there's a strong un-empathetic Daddy figure willing to lay down the law, let the children learn the consequences no matter how much it hurts, a Daddy figure who shuts down the empathy, supposedly for the recipients' own good. And here come the big bad Daddy Figure Representatives (there are only 22 Republican women in the House, less than 10% of the Republican members of the House) here to tell us American children we have to learn to be responsible and fend for ourselves, our Government Mommy won't kiss the boo-boo for us anymore.
IOW, Republican women's involvement in charity may speak less to their sense of empathy than to their submission to the patriarchy.
posted by soundguy99 at 10:57 PM on May 4, 2017 [42 favorites]
Think about this, corb - look at how well that fits into the "traditional" patriarchal gender roles; the women (the mommies) are the soft ones, the kind ones, the ones who kiss the boo-boo and make it better even when the boo-boo is the kids' own fault. This is OK (to people with this view of the world) as long as there's a strong un-empathetic Daddy figure willing to lay down the law, let the children learn the consequences no matter how much it hurts, a Daddy figure who shuts down the empathy, supposedly for the recipients' own good. And here come the big bad Daddy Figure Representatives (there are only 22 Republican women in the House, less than 10% of the Republican members of the House) here to tell us American children we have to learn to be responsible and fend for ourselves, our Government Mommy won't kiss the boo-boo for us anymore.
IOW, Republican women's involvement in charity may speak less to their sense of empathy than to their submission to the patriarchy.
posted by soundguy99 at 10:57 PM on May 4, 2017 [42 favorites]
futz: "So, what do you guys think the chances are of the senate passing this version of the house vote? I think it is close to zero. "
Well, they've decided they're not starting out with the House text and then amending it, they're going to write their own bill. To me, that says that they're very unlikely to have something real close to the House version. Especially given the multiple fractures in the Senate GOP over what they don't like about it.
Not to say they won't pass something, not to say it won't suck. But it will likely be rather different from the House version, if they do. And then either the House would need to approve it in toto (not likely), or then they screw around with a conference committee to work it out. So, we're still a ways away from knowing what this collection of murderous assholes inflicts on us, if anything.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:09 PM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
Well, they've decided they're not starting out with the House text and then amending it, they're going to write their own bill. To me, that says that they're very unlikely to have something real close to the House version. Especially given the multiple fractures in the Senate GOP over what they don't like about it.
Not to say they won't pass something, not to say it won't suck. But it will likely be rather different from the House version, if they do. And then either the House would need to approve it in toto (not likely), or then they screw around with a conference committee to work it out. So, we're still a ways away from knowing what this collection of murderous assholes inflicts on us, if anything.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:09 PM on May 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
IOW, Republican women's involvement in charity may speak less to their sense of empathy than to their submission to the patriarchy.
The hard thing for me is that in the Republican tent, there are GOOD PEOPLE who are there out of long habit. Not everyone -- in fact I would thing MOST Republicans aren't BAD people.
Thing is, the party is led by BAD people, and honestly, if you're standing with BAD people, even though you're GOOD, I really don't have the energy anymore to try and figure out who is who.
SO... It's time for the Good Republicans to leave the GOP to the assholes. Form another party if you don't like the other ones around ( which may be the best option, frankly since they all got issues ).
I know it's hard to admit it, but it's time for the old qmail double-bounce message:
This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.
posted by mikelieman at 11:46 PM on May 4, 2017 [65 favorites]
The hard thing for me is that in the Republican tent, there are GOOD PEOPLE who are there out of long habit. Not everyone -- in fact I would thing MOST Republicans aren't BAD people.
Thing is, the party is led by BAD people, and honestly, if you're standing with BAD people, even though you're GOOD, I really don't have the energy anymore to try and figure out who is who.
SO... It's time for the Good Republicans to leave the GOP to the assholes. Form another party if you don't like the other ones around ( which may be the best option, frankly since they all got issues ).
I know it's hard to admit it, but it's time for the old qmail double-bounce message:
This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.
posted by mikelieman at 11:46 PM on May 4, 2017 [65 favorites]
I really can't understand why anyone but the Republicans themselves still calls them the GOP.
posted by Too-Ticky at 12:33 AM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Too-Ticky at 12:33 AM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
The "Got Ours" Party fits.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 12:56 AM on May 5, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 12:56 AM on May 5, 2017 [21 favorites]
I mean I am not prone to embarrassing displays of leftism but I'm feeling very
/let no one build walls to divide us, walls of hatred nor walls of stone
we must live together or die lone /
tonight.
It's cause the convention is close
(goes back to vetting pages of constitutional laws and how we need to distance from the Socialist International for endorsing austerity)
posted by The Whelk at 1:44 AM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
/let no one build walls to divide us, walls of hatred nor walls of stone
we must live together or die lone /
tonight.
It's cause the convention is close
(goes back to vetting pages of constitutional laws and how we need to distance from the Socialist International for endorsing austerity)
posted by The Whelk at 1:44 AM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
The hard thing for me is that in the Republican tent, there are GOOD PEOPLE who are there out of long habit. Not everyone -- in fact I would thing MOST Republicans aren't BAD people.
Thing is, the party is led by BAD people, and honestly, if you're standing with BAD people, even though you're GOOD, I really don't have the energy anymore to try and figure out who is who.
posted by mikelieman at 2:46 AM on May 5 [16 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]
I find myself quoting G. K. Chesterton's The Man Who Was Thursday more and more recently:
"This is a vast philosophic movement, consisting of an outer and an inner ring. You might even call the outer ring the laity and the inner ring the priesthood. I prefer to call the outer ring the innocent section, the inner ring the supremely guilty section. The outer ring—the main mass of their supporters—are merely anarchists; that is, men who believe that rules and formulas have destroyed human happiness. [...] These I call the innocent section.”
“Oh!” said Syme.
“Naturally, therefore, these people talk about ‘a happy time coming’; ‘the paradise of the future’; ‘mankind freed from the bondage of vice and the bondage of virtue,’ and so on. And so also the men of the inner circle speak—the sacred priesthood. They also speak to applauding crowds of the happiness of the future, and of mankind freed at last. But in their mouths”—and the policeman lowered his voice—“in their mouths these happy phrases have a horrible meaning. They are under no illusions; they are too intellectual to think that man upon this earth can ever be quite free of original sin and the struggle. And they mean death. When they say that mankind shall be free at last, they mean that mankind shall commit suicide. When they talk of a paradise without right or wrong, they mean the grave.
“They have but two objects, to destroy first humanity and then themselves. That is why they throw bombs instead of firing pistols. The innocent rank and file are disappointed because the bomb has not killed the king; but the high-priesthood are happy because it has killed somebody.”
posted by McCoy Pauley at 3:52 AM on May 5, 2017 [18 favorites]
Thing is, the party is led by BAD people, and honestly, if you're standing with BAD people, even though you're GOOD, I really don't have the energy anymore to try and figure out who is who.
posted by mikelieman at 2:46 AM on May 5 [16 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]
I find myself quoting G. K. Chesterton's The Man Who Was Thursday more and more recently:
"This is a vast philosophic movement, consisting of an outer and an inner ring. You might even call the outer ring the laity and the inner ring the priesthood. I prefer to call the outer ring the innocent section, the inner ring the supremely guilty section. The outer ring—the main mass of their supporters—are merely anarchists; that is, men who believe that rules and formulas have destroyed human happiness. [...] These I call the innocent section.”
“Oh!” said Syme.
“Naturally, therefore, these people talk about ‘a happy time coming’; ‘the paradise of the future’; ‘mankind freed from the bondage of vice and the bondage of virtue,’ and so on. And so also the men of the inner circle speak—the sacred priesthood. They also speak to applauding crowds of the happiness of the future, and of mankind freed at last. But in their mouths”—and the policeman lowered his voice—“in their mouths these happy phrases have a horrible meaning. They are under no illusions; they are too intellectual to think that man upon this earth can ever be quite free of original sin and the struggle. And they mean death. When they say that mankind shall be free at last, they mean that mankind shall commit suicide. When they talk of a paradise without right or wrong, they mean the grave.
“They have but two objects, to destroy first humanity and then themselves. That is why they throw bombs instead of firing pistols. The innocent rank and file are disappointed because the bomb has not killed the king; but the high-priesthood are happy because it has killed somebody.”
posted by McCoy Pauley at 3:52 AM on May 5, 2017 [18 favorites]
Holy fuck, I just realized there will be a state funeral for him.
And someday, someone will tweet a picture comparing the size of the crowd to the one at Obama's
But at least he won't be around to be personally involved in the search for the tweeter.
posted by Cocodrillo at 4:03 AM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
And someday, someone will tweet a picture comparing the size of the crowd to the one at Obama's
But at least he won't be around to be personally involved in the search for the tweeter.
posted by Cocodrillo at 4:03 AM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
I do feel vindicated in never having reported my sexual assault to official channels. So thanks for that, Republic Congresspeople. You sure make being a woman in the United States Great!!!
posted by ChuraChura at 4:09 AM on May 5, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by ChuraChura at 4:09 AM on May 5, 2017 [22 favorites]
Wow, that "The Dutch are digging" link from adamvasco above leads to a story that leads to this remarkable documentary on Dutch TV..
It's a deep dive into Trump's relationship with Bayrock. (Not even touching the whole Manafort/Cypriot banks/Ryobolovlev chain which also links Trump to Russia.)
It is damning. If this evidence were presented to a jury, I'm not sure that they would convict Trump of racketeering, but they might. (If you could find an impartial jury of Trump's peers...)
If any American network has the guts to air this, I promise I will become a loyal viewer, will buy your advertisers' products, and will pay for your premium streaming service. People need to see this.It's in English.
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:11 AM on May 5, 2017 [31 favorites]
It's a deep dive into Trump's relationship with Bayrock. (Not even touching the whole Manafort/Cypriot banks/Ryobolovlev chain which also links Trump to Russia.)
It is damning. If this evidence were presented to a jury, I'm not sure that they would convict Trump of racketeering, but they might. (If you could find an impartial jury of Trump's peers...)
If any American network has the guts to air this, I promise I will become a loyal viewer, will buy your advertisers' products, and will pay for your premium streaming service. People need to see this.It's in English.
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:11 AM on May 5, 2017 [31 favorites]
Forbes says that
Three years later, people still don't necessarily understand the difference between Forbes the magazine and forbes.com/sites. The former is Maxim for capitalists. The later is Geocities for clickbait writers.
posted by persona at 4:12 AM on May 5, 2017 [14 favorites]
Three years later, people still don't necessarily understand the difference between Forbes the magazine and forbes.com/sites. The former is Maxim for capitalists. The later is Geocities for clickbait writers.
posted by persona at 4:12 AM on May 5, 2017 [14 favorites]
Yesterday afternoon I asked my Trump voting boss what he thought of the AHCA and he said he didn't know what it was. I didn't take it well. My comments to him were along the lines of but more vulgar, 'you mean after all you blabber about race wars and needing to manage women with kid gloves so you're voting Trump, you don't even know what they're doing?! You're ego is just about to hurt millions of lives. You make me sick.' There were about 7-10 witnesses including the store manager, I was sent home (I work in retail as a department manager).
I can almost understand the people that follow their principles, even though they're bad ones. To not even care though, that's ridiculous. How can you actually form an opinion if you don't know what anyone is doing? Ludicrous.
posted by JakeEXTREME at 4:25 AM on May 5, 2017 [55 favorites]
I can almost understand the people that follow their principles, even though they're bad ones. To not even care though, that's ridiculous. How can you actually form an opinion if you don't know what anyone is doing? Ludicrous.
posted by JakeEXTREME at 4:25 AM on May 5, 2017 [55 favorites]
This is the URL for "The dubious friends of Donald Trump" documentary OnceUponATime points out which works with my stream downloader software (so, maybe try it if the original link isn't working for you):
https://media-service.vara.nl/player-https.php?id=372765&e=1&int=1&c=1posted by XMLicious at 4:27 AM on May 5, 2017 [6 favorites]
(This is not meant to be snarky or hostile, I'm seriously wondering) How does corb's statement about the charity work done by R women square with her many past statements about the revulsion R voters have towards receiving charity? It just doesn't make sense to me that someone is offended at getting something "they didn't work for" but is happily giving other people assistance. It comes across as "at least I'm not THOSE people".
I really don't understand how people getting help from private citizens is somehow better than getting help from the government.
posted by hollygoheavy at 4:32 AM on May 5, 2017 [22 favorites]
I really don't understand how people getting help from private citizens is somehow better than getting help from the government.
posted by hollygoheavy at 4:32 AM on May 5, 2017 [22 favorites]
Count me in the 'Republicans aren't terrible because they're Republican, they're Republicans because they're terrible' camp. I.E., it's the not the leadership, it's not being warped/fooled by the conservative media bubble, it's not true belief in the efficacy of markets and the evil of government. It's the fact that they are largely racist, bigoted people lacking in empathy for anything beyond their immediate experience and family who cling to fake Christianity to assuage the amorality/immorality of their lives and feel superior to others. So they've built a party to accommodate their awfulness.
Are there decent Republicans? Sure, but if they supported Trump, much less are still supporting him, then the verdict is in, at least for me. And I say this as someone who was a Republican for over 20 years, grew up in South Dakota in an evangelical household, lived in Texas for 15 years, and has tons of family and friends who are Republican.
posted by chris24 at 5:12 AM on May 5, 2017 [28 favorites]
Are there decent Republicans? Sure, but if they supported Trump, much less are still supporting him, then the verdict is in, at least for me. And I say this as someone who was a Republican for over 20 years, grew up in South Dakota in an evangelical household, lived in Texas for 15 years, and has tons of family and friends who are Republican.
posted by chris24 at 5:12 AM on May 5, 2017 [28 favorites]
I flatly do not believe there are decent republicans. I refuse to sign on to 'oh you're ok, we know you' style rhetoric when the evidence of years is against that premise.
posted by winna at 5:15 AM on May 5, 2017 [45 favorites]
posted by winna at 5:15 AM on May 5, 2017 [45 favorites]
When my father was in the hospital dying of cancer I was sitting at his bedside and I logged onto metafilter to try to distract myself from the fact that the man I loved most in the world was leaving me.
What did I see? Someone talking about how health care was not a right and that if people couldn't pay for it they shouldn't have it.
Surrounded by the beep and hiss of machines and the smell of antiseptic and impending death I cried and cried at the monstrous mindless cruelty of saying such a thing.
No, no I will not forget it and I will not sign onto 'there are decent republicans here on metafilter or anywhere else'.
posted by winna at 5:20 AM on May 5, 2017 [92 favorites]
What did I see? Someone talking about how health care was not a right and that if people couldn't pay for it they shouldn't have it.
Surrounded by the beep and hiss of machines and the smell of antiseptic and impending death I cried and cried at the monstrous mindless cruelty of saying such a thing.
No, no I will not forget it and I will not sign onto 'there are decent republicans here on metafilter or anywhere else'.
posted by winna at 5:20 AM on May 5, 2017 [92 favorites]
How can you actually form an opinion if you don't know what anyone is doing?
Doesn't seem to have ever stopped anyone, ever; particularly with regards to political policy.
sorry about the job
posted by aspersioncast at 5:22 AM on May 5, 2017
Doesn't seem to have ever stopped anyone, ever; particularly with regards to political policy.
sorry about the job
posted by aspersioncast at 5:22 AM on May 5, 2017
I really don't understand how people getting help from private citizens is somehow better than getting help from the government.
You remember the Duggars, they of the endless childbearing reality show? One of their big brags is that they've never taken "welfare". But Duggar the Elder did not hold a day job when he worked as a state rep, something literally no one does because a state rep's pay in AR couldn't support a family of 3, let alone 17.
They managed this by getting shit tons of handouts. Money and goods from their church, building materials at cost plus free or reduced-cost labor, all kinds of help and donations. But they'll insist they never took welfare, never were a burden on their community.
Really, the difference is one of class (with a heavy dash of race in there to boot). If our assistance is coming from people who Look Like Us, then it's a community coming together to support families, praise the Lord. If I'm paying cash for my groceries, I hold my head high as a man succeeding in a community of believers.
But if I'm pulling out a WIC card, I've failed! That's for black people and white trash (which is code for black people with white skin)! There's no meaningful or functional difference between taking handouts from my church or getting my kids on Medicaid, but there's a huge social difference. And if the people I run with have gone on and on about welfare queens, I'm going to need at least a fig leaf of difference between me and Those People, lest my reputation suffer or I realize that there's a serious problem here that needs solving.
Fun fact: Arkansas years ago rebranded Medicaid for kids as ARKids First and enrollment skyrocketed. Perception matters.
posted by middleclasstool at 5:23 AM on May 5, 2017 [91 favorites]
You remember the Duggars, they of the endless childbearing reality show? One of their big brags is that they've never taken "welfare". But Duggar the Elder did not hold a day job when he worked as a state rep, something literally no one does because a state rep's pay in AR couldn't support a family of 3, let alone 17.
They managed this by getting shit tons of handouts. Money and goods from their church, building materials at cost plus free or reduced-cost labor, all kinds of help and donations. But they'll insist they never took welfare, never were a burden on their community.
Really, the difference is one of class (with a heavy dash of race in there to boot). If our assistance is coming from people who Look Like Us, then it's a community coming together to support families, praise the Lord. If I'm paying cash for my groceries, I hold my head high as a man succeeding in a community of believers.
But if I'm pulling out a WIC card, I've failed! That's for black people and white trash (which is code for black people with white skin)! There's no meaningful or functional difference between taking handouts from my church or getting my kids on Medicaid, but there's a huge social difference. And if the people I run with have gone on and on about welfare queens, I'm going to need at least a fig leaf of difference between me and Those People, lest my reputation suffer or I realize that there's a serious problem here that needs solving.
Fun fact: Arkansas years ago rebranded Medicaid for kids as ARKids First and enrollment skyrocketed. Perception matters.
posted by middleclasstool at 5:23 AM on May 5, 2017 [91 favorites]
And that's the thing, isn't it? Private charity only exists because there are gaps in the help that the government can provide. If you let the government actually help the people who need help instead of starving it of funding or putting bullshit limits on who gets help, guess what? Problems get solved and you don't need private charity (which, let's be honest, is a way of allocating funds to help these people and not those people).
posted by uncleozzy at 5:34 AM on May 5, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by uncleozzy at 5:34 AM on May 5, 2017 [27 favorites]
I rambled on at length during the election about this, but my take on modern political alignment and "are there good Republicans left" is that the modern divide is not left vs. right or pure liberal vs. pure conservative but simply inclusion vs. exclusion. The common good vs. individual sovereignty. Helping the less fortunate versus letting them lift themselves up. Opening up to new ideas about religion and gender and sexuality and race versus insisting that your beliefs are good enough for everyone. I want the world to be a better place versus I want MY world to be better.
There are conservatives who really believe in reaching out, widening their tent, bringing their economic ideology and take on patriotic ideals to outsiders. But they are greatly outnumbered and increasingly disillusioned and marginalized, and the social and sexual and racial and classist politics that they don't buy into are more of their party's primary foci every day. Their party left them long ago and they still believe in their perception of conservativism too much to turn full hippie overnight.
posted by delfin at 5:43 AM on May 5, 2017 [7 favorites]
There are conservatives who really believe in reaching out, widening their tent, bringing their economic ideology and take on patriotic ideals to outsiders. But they are greatly outnumbered and increasingly disillusioned and marginalized, and the social and sexual and racial and classist politics that they don't buy into are more of their party's primary foci every day. Their party left them long ago and they still believe in their perception of conservativism too much to turn full hippie overnight.
posted by delfin at 5:43 AM on May 5, 2017 [7 favorites]
I really don't understand how people getting help from private citizens is somehow better than getting help from the government.
The framing is "All Taxation is Theft. Charity is Voluntary".
posted by mikelieman at 5:59 AM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
The framing is "All Taxation is Theft. Charity is Voluntary".
posted by mikelieman at 5:59 AM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
(This is not meant to be snarky or hostile, I'm seriously wondering) How does corb's statement about the charity work done by R women square with her many past statements about the revulsion R voters have towards receiving charity? It just doesn't make sense to me that someone is offended at getting something "they didn't work for" but is happily giving other people assistance. It comes across as "at least I'm not THOSE people".
It's a social status power play. They want to be seen to be giving to charity themselves. When it happens at a social program level the giver and recipient are anonymous due to sheer numbers so the social status implications are obscured. When it is person to person interaction it is super-salient. There is a beggar and a giver and one has to be grateful and the other gets to feel generous even when the charity is far less than what is needed and is inefficient or unjust in distribution.
posted by srboisvert at 6:02 AM on May 5, 2017 [45 favorites]
It's a social status power play. They want to be seen to be giving to charity themselves. When it happens at a social program level the giver and recipient are anonymous due to sheer numbers so the social status implications are obscured. When it is person to person interaction it is super-salient. There is a beggar and a giver and one has to be grateful and the other gets to feel generous even when the charity is far less than what is needed and is inefficient or unjust in distribution.
posted by srboisvert at 6:02 AM on May 5, 2017 [45 favorites]
These conservatives still whine about having to give up Jim Crow voting laws, the ability to force LGBTQ people into poverty and suicide, back-alley abortions, and starving children physically and mentally, all in the name of racist bullshit like "states' rights" or "individual freedoms" and so on. All the while they're still spouting long-debunked nonsense about health care and economics that they know have been proven to be worse for everyone involved. And when they get upset that giving up all of that won't make them "conservative" anymore, they fail to see the problem inherent in their complaint. Not that that will stop them from lecturing us on how the real problem is tribalism and polarization that (naturally) is the fault of both sides.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:02 AM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 6:02 AM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yeah, let's not beat around the bush here: prioritizing private charity over public assistance is all about being able to discriminate in deciding who gets help. That's it. People who don't want to believe this will do a lot of handwaving about helping local communities and the voluntary nature of it, but it's all smokescreen. Pretty much the only benefit of private charity over government assistance is that you can explicitly or implicitly decide to keep it away from non-white non-christians and it's not against the law to do so.
posted by tocts at 6:02 AM on May 5, 2017 [70 favorites]
posted by tocts at 6:02 AM on May 5, 2017 [70 favorites]
The framing is "All Taxation is Theft. Charity is Voluntary".
That and "government replacing God's role".
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:05 AM on May 5, 2017 [7 favorites]
That and "government replacing God's role".
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:05 AM on May 5, 2017 [7 favorites]
Private charity only exists because there are gaps in the help that the government can provide.
Not to mention that the government is only solving problems that the market isn't solving (or, more likely, is creating), which makes it even more anathematic to the sort of I-don't-care-and-you-can't-make-me libertarians who have taken over the GOP.
posted by Etrigan at 6:06 AM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
Not to mention that the government is only solving problems that the market isn't solving (or, more likely, is creating), which makes it even more anathematic to the sort of I-don't-care-and-you-can't-make-me libertarians who have taken over the GOP.
posted by Etrigan at 6:06 AM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
Now now, we all know that when the government steps in to solve a major problem that the free market is ignoring (to its benefit), the proper response is to complain that this action will distort the market and create perverse incentives and that this needs to be repealed.
posted by tocts at 6:08 AM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by tocts at 6:08 AM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yeah, let's not beat around the bush here: prioritizing private charity over public assistance is all about being able to discriminate in deciding who gets help. That's it. People who don't want to believe this will do a lot of handwaving about helping local communities and the voluntary nature of it, but it's all smokescreen.
People who don't want their racist motives recognized, you mean.
posted by winna at 6:13 AM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
People who don't want their racist motives recognized, you mean.
posted by winna at 6:13 AM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think the most important thing to republicans is the tax cuts and free market stuff.
They elected a President who pledged to impose protectionist tariffs and raise taxes on the rich, so I think a majority of those voters have other priorities.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:23 AM on May 5, 2017
They elected a President who pledged to impose protectionist tariffs and raise taxes on the rich, so I think a majority of those voters have other priorities.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:23 AM on May 5, 2017
While the importance of private charity being able to discriminate can't be overstated, I think srboisvert's point about social status is important as well.
Never forget that conservatism is rooted in a deep and abiding belief in a strong and enforced social hierarchy. Being able to give charity is a sign of superiority, demanding a show of gratitude is a way of forcing submission from those lower on the hierarchy than you.
Government welfare programs inherently, unavoidably, prevent that sort of personal, direct, show of dominance and submission that is deeply appealing to the conservative mindset. They are all about superiors and inferiors, look at the American conservative obsession with all things military for example, or the Confucian five relationships (all but one of which are framed explicitly as superior to inferior).
With private charity you have a supplicant and a benevolent superior. With government welfare you have anonymity that preserves dignity and equality.
Yes, a lot of Republican women are involved in charity. That isn't because they're nice, it's because they're displaying their dominance and superiority.
posted by sotonohito at 6:23 AM on May 5, 2017 [60 favorites]
Never forget that conservatism is rooted in a deep and abiding belief in a strong and enforced social hierarchy. Being able to give charity is a sign of superiority, demanding a show of gratitude is a way of forcing submission from those lower on the hierarchy than you.
Government welfare programs inherently, unavoidably, prevent that sort of personal, direct, show of dominance and submission that is deeply appealing to the conservative mindset. They are all about superiors and inferiors, look at the American conservative obsession with all things military for example, or the Confucian five relationships (all but one of which are framed explicitly as superior to inferior).
With private charity you have a supplicant and a benevolent superior. With government welfare you have anonymity that preserves dignity and equality.
Yes, a lot of Republican women are involved in charity. That isn't because they're nice, it's because they're displaying their dominance and superiority.
posted by sotonohito at 6:23 AM on May 5, 2017 [60 favorites]
That and "government replacing God's role".
It's this one. Poverty and suffering are the judgment of god, and government shouldn't contravene it. It's reprehensible.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:29 AM on May 5, 2017 [6 favorites]
It's this one. Poverty and suffering are the judgment of god, and government shouldn't contravene it. It's reprehensible.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:29 AM on May 5, 2017 [6 favorites]
They elected a President who pledged to impose protectionist tariffs and raise taxes on the rich, so I think a majority of those voters have other priorities.
All the Republicans want in a president is enough working digits to handle a pen. Trump so far has handled this with aplomb. He can say whatever the fuck he wants. If he refuses to handle a pen then they throw him out and replace him with the loyal party stooge that does have enough digits to handle said pen.
posted by Talez at 6:29 AM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
All the Republicans want in a president is enough working digits to handle a pen. Trump so far has handled this with aplomb. He can say whatever the fuck he wants. If he refuses to handle a pen then they throw him out and replace him with the loyal party stooge that does have enough digits to handle said pen.
posted by Talez at 6:29 AM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm still hung up on what exactly happened yesterday, so here's something that's been stewing in my mind overnight:
- The intense "make-or-break" pressure to say that they had repealed and replaced Obamacare.
- No one knows what's really in the bill, or how much it costs.
- Everyone agrees that it won't survive contact with the Senate, or fit into reconciliation rules, and the Senate has already declared that they're working on their own bill.
- It seems impossible for a more centrist bill to pass the House. They can't even keep the government lights on without Democratic help.
- But already Reince Priebus Sees a Much-Needed Reprieve After Vote.
- The premature "victory party". "I’m President. Hey, I’m President. Can you believe it? Right?" (That's an official White House transcript, btw. Read it and weep afresh.)
What if - what if Ryan et al. have no intention passing anything further? What if the endgame now is to wash their hands of the whole thing after a highly visible "victory", and let Obamacare limp along? Did Trump even notice that he hadn't signed anything? Does he think he's done?
I guess it'll be our responsibility to tie this vote around R Congresscritter necks as long as they are in office - yes, you voted to give a trillion dollar tax cut to the rich on the backs of our sickest and most vulnerable citizens. It seems unreal, because it's so over the top cartoon-ish evil. You wouldn't come up with a caricature this bad.
(Meanwhile, Canada makes news because Justin Trudeau wore mis-matched Star Wars socks while meeting the Irish prime minister. Sob.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 6:44 AM on May 5, 2017 [18 favorites]
- The intense "make-or-break" pressure to say that they had repealed and replaced Obamacare.
- No one knows what's really in the bill, or how much it costs.
- Everyone agrees that it won't survive contact with the Senate, or fit into reconciliation rules, and the Senate has already declared that they're working on their own bill.
- It seems impossible for a more centrist bill to pass the House. They can't even keep the government lights on without Democratic help.
- But already Reince Priebus Sees a Much-Needed Reprieve After Vote.
- The premature "victory party". "I’m President. Hey, I’m President. Can you believe it? Right?" (That's an official White House transcript, btw. Read it and weep afresh.)
What if - what if Ryan et al. have no intention passing anything further? What if the endgame now is to wash their hands of the whole thing after a highly visible "victory", and let Obamacare limp along? Did Trump even notice that he hadn't signed anything? Does he think he's done?
I guess it'll be our responsibility to tie this vote around R Congresscritter necks as long as they are in office - yes, you voted to give a trillion dollar tax cut to the rich on the backs of our sickest and most vulnerable citizens. It seems unreal, because it's so over the top cartoon-ish evil. You wouldn't come up with a caricature this bad.
(Meanwhile, Canada makes news because Justin Trudeau wore mis-matched Star Wars socks while meeting the Irish prime minister. Sob.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 6:44 AM on May 5, 2017 [18 favorites]
So how's Jay-dogg Chaffetz's foot? Poor thing, probably hopping around on a single crutch made from misshapen tree limbs with a couple of leaves still tenaciously holding on as his tok-tok-tokking through the halls of Congress echo mournfully in pre-existing silence.
posted by petebest at 6:54 AM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by petebest at 6:54 AM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
No one knows what's really in the bill, or how much it costs.
And some have come right out and admitted they didn't read the bill. Some of these Rs are in districts that went for Hillary, right? Or are at least leaning blue or purple, now? Can any of them be impeached? Because voting on bills you haven't read sounds like a pretty basic dereliction of duty.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:56 AM on May 5, 2017 [7 favorites]
And some have come right out and admitted they didn't read the bill. Some of these Rs are in districts that went for Hillary, right? Or are at least leaning blue or purple, now? Can any of them be impeached? Because voting on bills you haven't read sounds like a pretty basic dereliction of duty.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:56 AM on May 5, 2017 [7 favorites]
voting on bills you haven't read
Is the norm, sadly. Besides the cigarette lobby writes most of them, it's probably fine.
posted by petebest at 6:58 AM on May 5, 2017
Is the norm, sadly. Besides the cigarette lobby writes most of them, it's probably fine.
posted by petebest at 6:58 AM on May 5, 2017
And some have come right out and admitted they didn't read the bill.
House Republican didn’t know the health care bill he voted for could cost his state $3 billion
Told by a Buffalo News reporter that the state’s largest loss of federal funds under the bill would be $3 billion annually that goes to the state’s Essential Health Plan, Collins said: “Explain that to me.”
The Essential Plan is an optional program under Obamacare, offered only by New York and Minnesota, that provides low-cost health insurance to low- and middle-income people who don’t qualify for Medicaid. State Health Department figures show that more than 19,000 people in Erie and Niagara counties were on the Essential Plan in January.
posted by PenDevil at 7:00 AM on May 5, 2017 [36 favorites]
House Republican didn’t know the health care bill he voted for could cost his state $3 billion
Told by a Buffalo News reporter that the state’s largest loss of federal funds under the bill would be $3 billion annually that goes to the state’s Essential Health Plan, Collins said: “Explain that to me.”
The Essential Plan is an optional program under Obamacare, offered only by New York and Minnesota, that provides low-cost health insurance to low- and middle-income people who don’t qualify for Medicaid. State Health Department figures show that more than 19,000 people in Erie and Niagara counties were on the Essential Plan in January.
posted by PenDevil at 7:00 AM on May 5, 2017 [36 favorites]
Yes, I know it's the norm, but this time it could be used as a point of action instead of ignoring it. And maybe that would send a message to politicians that they better have a handle on what they're voting for.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:01 AM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 7:01 AM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
Ha ha too funny. Yesterday I wore the exact same socks as Trudeau did though I was just doing a couple of job interviews and not meeting I the world leaders.
posted by Jalliah at 7:02 AM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Jalliah at 7:02 AM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
So how's Jay-dogg Chaffetz's foot? Poor thing, probably hopping around on a single crutch made from misshapen tree limbs with a couple of leaves still tenaciously holding on as his tok-tok-tokking through the halls of Congress echo mournfully in pre-existing silence.
Jason Chaffetz and His Broken Ankle Scoot Their Way to Memedom
posted by zombieflanders at 7:02 AM on May 5, 2017 [11 favorites]
Jason Chaffetz and His Broken Ankle Scoot Their Way to Memedom
posted by zombieflanders at 7:02 AM on May 5, 2017 [11 favorites]
I was so mad about this yesterday that I woke up with sore shoulders today. I still can't fathom how any lawmaker thinks this is serving their constituency, let alone a human or decent thing to inflict on people. I just cannot. Days like yesterday make me regret that I have but two middle fingers for the Republicans in office.
posted by marshmallow peep at 7:03 AM on May 5, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by marshmallow peep at 7:03 AM on May 5, 2017 [10 favorites]
And for the congresspeople with the guts to face their constituents, that should be hammered home.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:03 AM on May 5, 2017
posted by Room 641-A at 7:03 AM on May 5, 2017
This David Remnick quote from a recent New Yorker article nicely captures a feeling I'm sure everybody in this thread is familiar with:
For most people, the luxury of living in a relatively stable democracy is the luxury of not following politics with a nerve-racked constancy. Trump does not afford this. His Presidency has become the demoralizing daily obsession...
posted by diogenes at 7:15 AM on May 5, 2017 [52 favorites]
For most people, the luxury of living in a relatively stable democracy is the luxury of not following politics with a nerve-racked constancy. Trump does not afford this. His Presidency has become the demoralizing daily obsession...
posted by diogenes at 7:15 AM on May 5, 2017 [52 favorites]
Some of these Rs are in districts that went for Hillary, right? Or are at least leaning blue or purple, now? Can any of them be impeached?
There's three main* ways to force an elected official out of office.
Impeachment is almost always how a legislature can remove an executive or judicial official, and it typically requires action by both chambers of the legislature. At the federal level, only executive** officers and judges can be impeached.
Expulsion is how legislatures remove their own members. Typically this requires some sort of supermajority in whatever the offended chamber is. In Congress, it requires a 2/3 vote in whichever chamber.
A recall is when enough people petition to remove a state or local elected official from office, and then an election follows to decide whether the person will be removed. There is no federal recall.
*OF COURSE it gets more complicated and there are weirder things you can do to local officials... right now they're trying to kick bestiality-enthusiast Carl Paladino off his elected position on the Buffalo school board in a complex process that involves a vote by the school board that's sent to the state education department for some sort of adjudication.
**I assume without looking it up that this also includes weirdo positions like independent regulatory commissioners
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:15 AM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
There's three main* ways to force an elected official out of office.
Impeachment is almost always how a legislature can remove an executive or judicial official, and it typically requires action by both chambers of the legislature. At the federal level, only executive** officers and judges can be impeached.
Expulsion is how legislatures remove their own members. Typically this requires some sort of supermajority in whatever the offended chamber is. In Congress, it requires a 2/3 vote in whichever chamber.
A recall is when enough people petition to remove a state or local elected official from office, and then an election follows to decide whether the person will be removed. There is no federal recall.
*OF COURSE it gets more complicated and there are weirder things you can do to local officials... right now they're trying to kick bestiality-enthusiast Carl Paladino off his elected position on the Buffalo school board in a complex process that involves a vote by the school board that's sent to the state education department for some sort of adjudication.
**I assume without looking it up that this also includes weirdo positions like independent regulatory commissioners
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:15 AM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
A family friend and highly respected statistician, whipped this up for me yesterday (copied):
A GRAND TOTAL OF TWO PEOPLE IN FORSYTH COUNTY, NC, WOULD BE HELPED BY HIGH-RISK FUNDS IN THE GOP HEALTH CARE BILL
Would the $8 billion in high-risk pool money added to the GOP health care bill, which passed the House, 5/4/2017, allow coverage of a grand total of (drum roll. . . .) only TWO people per zip code in Forsyth County, NC, annually who have pre-existing conditions?
The math:
$1,600,000,000: the amount available annually nationwide—or $8 billion over 5 yrs. in high-risk pool money added to the GOP bill this week to help patients with pre-existing conditions.
$32,000,000: the annual amount (averaged) from this pool for each state, if all 50 states draw on the money.
$320,000: the annual amount per NC county (100 NC counties) from this pool, if money delivered evenly.
32: the annual # of people served per NC county, if a $10,000/yr cost for a person with pre-existing condition. (A conservative cost estimate per some media analyses.)
1.88: the average annual # of people helped per zip code area in Forsyth County, NC, by this $8 billion pool of money.
(Approx. 17 zip code "areas" in Forsyth Co., NC. “Area” defined as either a whole or a significant part of a zip code.)
Feel free to shoot down these figures.
AP article in 5/5/2017 Winston-Salem Journal
quote:
“The White House had pushed hard for a vote, and Trump got personally involved in last-minute maneuvering. He helped bring wavering moderates on board after a deal secured by conservatives last week scared them off by limiting protections for people with pre-existing conditions. The final change, agreed to just Wednesday at the White House, was to add $8 billion over five years to help people with pre-existing conditions, a sum critics called a relative pittance.”
posted by piglord at 7:17 AM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
A GRAND TOTAL OF TWO PEOPLE IN FORSYTH COUNTY, NC, WOULD BE HELPED BY HIGH-RISK FUNDS IN THE GOP HEALTH CARE BILL
Would the $8 billion in high-risk pool money added to the GOP health care bill, which passed the House, 5/4/2017, allow coverage of a grand total of (drum roll. . . .) only TWO people per zip code in Forsyth County, NC, annually who have pre-existing conditions?
The math:
$1,600,000,000: the amount available annually nationwide—or $8 billion over 5 yrs. in high-risk pool money added to the GOP bill this week to help patients with pre-existing conditions.
$32,000,000: the annual amount (averaged) from this pool for each state, if all 50 states draw on the money.
$320,000: the annual amount per NC county (100 NC counties) from this pool, if money delivered evenly.
32: the annual # of people served per NC county, if a $10,000/yr cost for a person with pre-existing condition. (A conservative cost estimate per some media analyses.)
1.88: the average annual # of people helped per zip code area in Forsyth County, NC, by this $8 billion pool of money.
(Approx. 17 zip code "areas" in Forsyth Co., NC. “Area” defined as either a whole or a significant part of a zip code.)
Feel free to shoot down these figures.
AP article in 5/5/2017 Winston-Salem Journal
quote:
“The White House had pushed hard for a vote, and Trump got personally involved in last-minute maneuvering. He helped bring wavering moderates on board after a deal secured by conservatives last week scared them off by limiting protections for people with pre-existing conditions. The final change, agreed to just Wednesday at the White House, was to add $8 billion over five years to help people with pre-existing conditions, a sum critics called a relative pittance.”
posted by piglord at 7:17 AM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
Virginia Congressman Tom Garrett (R-5th District) on MSNBC explaining why he was voting for the Trumpcare bill. His response to protesters: " I would wager based on the locality that that particular event occurred in, I wasn’t there, that none of those people did vote for me. What I would say is the free market health care system saved my mom’s life when she was diagnosed with terminal cancer 30 years ago, that the ability to innovate, the ability to let companies earn a profit to incentivize medical innovations saved my mom’s life."
posted by jazzbaby at 7:21 AM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by jazzbaby at 7:21 AM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
Good thread from Jamelle Bouie on the Obama-Trump voters (thread starts here; full thread condensed below):
[screencap of WaPo article: 13 remarkable quotes from people who voted for both Barack Obama and Donald Trump: “I voted for Obama too, because, I mean, there's always been a white person, obviously, in office. I mean, he was of African descent, so I voted for him thinking I would change a little bit of the race issues that we had going on and make the colored people feel better, like they have a black person in office.”]posted by melissasaurus at 7:22 AM on May 5, 2017 [46 favorites]
-hoo boy
-"i thought obama would make the black people shut up, and they didn't, so #maga"
-this is a more common view than people think, and something to remember when someone says that obama voters couldn't be racist.
-it is totally consistent to hold racist or racially resentful views and to support an extraordinary black person.
-*whispers* in fact, obama explicitly positioned himself as an extraordinary black person who wasn't like other black politicians.
-his respectability talk distinguished him, and his rhetoric of unity suggested whites could satisfy racial debt by supporting him.
-that's what "post-racial" was about–that electing obama ended any special claim black americans had on the nation's attention or resources.
-i mean, it's very likely that if obama hadn't done this, he couldn't have been elected. but that gets to the irony of it all.
The math:
That's shit math. Money isn't going to be delivered evenly between different sized states and counties. Forsyth county is 365 thousand or 0.087% of the country. 0.087% of $1.6b is $1.392 million. That's 139 people in the county with the conservative estimate.
posted by Talez at 7:24 AM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
That's shit math. Money isn't going to be delivered evenly between different sized states and counties. Forsyth county is 365 thousand or 0.087% of the country. 0.087% of $1.6b is $1.392 million. That's 139 people in the county with the conservative estimate.
posted by Talez at 7:24 AM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
angrycat: That fucker Pat Toomey took his info off of fax zero.
You can't run forever, Toomster.
Here are all of Pat Toomey's fax numbers:
Allentown/Lehigh Valley: (610) 434-1844
Erie: (814) 455-9925
Harrisburg: (717) 782-4920
Philadelphia: (215) 241-1095
Pittsburgh: (412) 803-3504
Scranton: (570) 941-3544
Johnstown: (814) 266-5973
Washington, D.C.: (202) 228-0284
Have fun bugging the shit out of him!
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 7:25 AM on May 5, 2017 [33 favorites]
You can't run forever, Toomster.
Here are all of Pat Toomey's fax numbers:
Allentown/Lehigh Valley: (610) 434-1844
Erie: (814) 455-9925
Harrisburg: (717) 782-4920
Philadelphia: (215) 241-1095
Pittsburgh: (412) 803-3504
Scranton: (570) 941-3544
Johnstown: (814) 266-5973
Washington, D.C.: (202) 228-0284
Have fun bugging the shit out of him!
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 7:25 AM on May 5, 2017 [33 favorites]
I've said it once and I'll say it again: Obama was the white electorate's black friend that they figured would give them a pass for the rest of their racism forever after.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:26 AM on May 5, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:26 AM on May 5, 2017 [34 favorites]
I do feel vindicated in never having reported my sexual assault to official channels. So thanks for that, Republic Congresspeople. You sure make being a woman in the United States Great!!!
Unfortunately, it is part of my permanent medical record, as is my bulimia and my asthma. Not to mention, my husband's HIV. If I lose my job, I'm fucked. Again.
Honestly, the only thing that might come out of this for me is since this is all part of my medical record, I might as well weaponize it. Not entirely sure how that will look, but as we say, "Bodies on the line."
posted by Sophie1 at 7:26 AM on May 5, 2017 [16 favorites]
Unfortunately, it is part of my permanent medical record, as is my bulimia and my asthma. Not to mention, my husband's HIV. If I lose my job, I'm fucked. Again.
Honestly, the only thing that might come out of this for me is since this is all part of my medical record, I might as well weaponize it. Not entirely sure how that will look, but as we say, "Bodies on the line."
posted by Sophie1 at 7:26 AM on May 5, 2017 [16 favorites]
- No one knows what's really in the bill, or how much it costs.
- Everyone agrees that it won't survive contact with the Senate, or fit into reconciliation rules, and the Senate has already declared that they're working on their own bill.
It could have been a blank piece of paper. In fact for republicans that may have even been a better approach because it couldn't even be scored by the CBO.
Potemkin politics.
posted by srboisvert at 7:26 AM on May 5, 2017 [7 favorites]
- Everyone agrees that it won't survive contact with the Senate, or fit into reconciliation rules, and the Senate has already declared that they're working on their own bill.
It could have been a blank piece of paper. In fact for republicans that may have even been a better approach because it couldn't even be scored by the CBO.
Potemkin politics.
posted by srboisvert at 7:26 AM on May 5, 2017 [7 favorites]
I would wager based on the locality that that particular event occurred in, I wasn’t there, that none of those people did vote for me.
And there it is-the Reps believe they are only there to represent the people who voted for them. The will only advocate for their constituents who they agree with, that they feel they might get some financial support and votes from. Everyone else is a lazy loser who deserves nothing.
posted by hollygoheavy at 7:27 AM on May 5, 2017 [39 favorites]
And there it is-the Reps believe they are only there to represent the people who voted for them. The will only advocate for their constituents who they agree with, that they feel they might get some financial support and votes from. Everyone else is a lazy loser who deserves nothing.
posted by hollygoheavy at 7:27 AM on May 5, 2017 [39 favorites]
That kind of evil has kind of been baked into modern conservatism, even the conservatives people try to portray as "moderate" and "pragmatic" say horrible shit like this:
"There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what...who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims. ...These are people who pay no income tax. ...and so my job is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them that they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives."posted by zombieflanders at 7:34 AM on May 5, 2017 [21 favorites]
The ActBlue donation page - focusing on the 24 Republicans who voted to repeal Obamacare, but who represent districts that Trump lost - has now passed $800k. So it's well on its way to raising a million dollars in the 24 hours since the health care vote was taken.
That's a nice chunk of campaign change ($40k per race) to start out the 2018 election season!
posted by darkstar at 7:34 AM on May 5, 2017 [15 favorites]
That's a nice chunk of campaign change ($40k per race) to start out the 2018 election season!
posted by darkstar at 7:34 AM on May 5, 2017 [15 favorites]
The Trumpcare Butcher Block Celebration in Photos, Annotated
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:37 AM on May 5, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:37 AM on May 5, 2017 [14 favorites]
White House fires its chief usher — the first woman in that job: The White House has fired its chief usher, Angella Reid, the first woman and second African American to hold the position.
When the White House residence staff arrived at work Friday morning, they were told that Reid was no longer employed, according to someone with knowledge of the dismissal. A White House official confirmed that Reid is no longer working at the White House.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:41 AM on May 5, 2017 [6 favorites]
When the White House residence staff arrived at work Friday morning, they were told that Reid was no longer employed, according to someone with knowledge of the dismissal. A White House official confirmed that Reid is no longer working at the White House.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:41 AM on May 5, 2017 [6 favorites]
Now I'm not a proponent of Trump by any circumstance but the guy got House Republicans to run like metaphorical Lemmings off a cliff for no other practical reason than finally putting a W in the column for the administration.
posted by Talez at 7:43 AM on May 5, 2017
posted by Talez at 7:43 AM on May 5, 2017
OMG they're now making the chief usher's job political? Is nothing sacred??
posted by Melismata at 7:43 AM on May 5, 2017
posted by Melismata at 7:43 AM on May 5, 2017
I'll never convince them that they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives other than their own."
Sorted.
posted by petebest at 7:46 AM on May 5, 2017
Sorted.
posted by petebest at 7:46 AM on May 5, 2017
@KeithObermann Coming up at 11 ET on #TheResistanceGQ: FBI may be targeting 42 people; Virginia Grand Jury may now be hearing evidence in Trump/Russia Case
posted by scalefree at 7:46 AM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by scalefree at 7:46 AM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
> but the guy got House Republicans to run like metaphorical Lemmings off a cliff
He sold a cruel bill to cruel people by making it more cruel. This says less about his skills as a master negotiator and more about what the converted Freedom Caucus members wanted the bill to be.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:46 AM on May 5, 2017 [20 favorites]
He sold a cruel bill to cruel people by making it more cruel. This says less about his skills as a master negotiator and more about what the converted Freedom Caucus members wanted the bill to be.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:46 AM on May 5, 2017 [20 favorites]
A recall is when enough people petition to remove a state or local elected official from office, and then an election follows to decide whether the person will be removed. There is no federal recall.
Oof, I meant recall, not impeach. RECALL THOSE FUCKERS. (Impeach Trump.)
posted by Room 641-A at 7:48 AM on May 5, 2017
Oof, I meant recall, not impeach. RECALL THOSE FUCKERS. (Impeach Trump.)
posted by Room 641-A at 7:48 AM on May 5, 2017
Milwaukee Sentinel Journal is reporting that Governor Walker is "consider opting out of pre-existing conditions policy in Obamacare."
WaPo: Every Republican who voted for this abomination must be held accountable: It is no exaggeration to say that if it were to become law, this bill would kill significant numbers of Americans. People who lose their Medicaid, don’t go to the doctor, and wind up finding out too late that they’re sick. People whose serious conditions put them up against lifetime limits or render them unable to afford what’s on offer in the high-risk pools, and are suddenly unable to get treatment.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:58 AM on May 5, 2017 [10 favorites]
WaPo: Every Republican who voted for this abomination must be held accountable: It is no exaggeration to say that if it were to become law, this bill would kill significant numbers of Americans. People who lose their Medicaid, don’t go to the doctor, and wind up finding out too late that they’re sick. People whose serious conditions put them up against lifetime limits or render them unable to afford what’s on offer in the high-risk pools, and are suddenly unable to get treatment.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:58 AM on May 5, 2017 [10 favorites]
The ActBlue donation page - focusing on the 24 Republicans who voted to repeal Obamacare, but who represent districts that Trump lost - has now passed $800k. So it's well on its way to raising a million dollars in the 24 hours since the health care vote was taken.
And that's just the Daily Kos fundraiser. There's also the generic Act Blue one, which is at $400K and the Swing Left one, which is over $700K.
Some more details from Vice in this article:
posted by melissasaurus at 7:59 AM on May 5, 2017 [6 favorites]
And that's just the Daily Kos fundraiser. There's also the generic Act Blue one, which is at $400K and the Swing Left one, which is over $700K.
Some more details from Vice in this article:
ActBlue, the fundraising platform used by most progressive groups and the Democratic Party, recorded $4,223,401 in donations Thursday from 123,145 contributors spread across 1,200 different campaigns, organizations, and funds. The DNC said it had its strongest fundraising day since March, and MoveOn.org’s Washington director, Ben Wikler, told VICE News that the fundraising text message sent immediately after the vote was its most successful ever, pulling in over $40,000 (and counting).The article also links to updated 2018 predictions from the Cook Political Report - still early and a lot could happen, but the AHCA vote moves things in Dems' favor (and increases the chance that Republicans in tossup or lean-R districts might retire rather than run for re-election).
posted by melissasaurus at 7:59 AM on May 5, 2017 [6 favorites]
Six years ago, he inquired about whether he could hold the Miss Universe Pageant at Masada, according to Eran Sidis, the spokesman for the Knesset Speaker.
Well, it would certainly be a novel ending for the pageant to have a mass suicide.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:00 AM on May 5, 2017 [9 favorites]
Well, it would certainly be a novel ending for the pageant to have a mass suicide.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:00 AM on May 5, 2017 [9 favorites]
House 2018: Rating Changes in 20 Districts
Republicans' 217-213 passage of the American Health Care Act on Thursday guarantees Democrats will have at least one major on-the-record vote to exploit in the next elections. Although it's the first of potentially many explosive votes, House Republicans' willingness to spend political capital on a proposal that garnered the support of just 17 percent of the public in a March Quinnipiac poll is consistent with past scenarios that have generated a midterm wave.posted by kirkaracha at 8:00 AM on May 5, 2017 [16 favorites]
Not only did dozens of Republicans in marginal districts just hitch their names to an unpopular piece of legislation, Democrats just received another valuable candidate recruitment tool. In fact, Democrats aren't so much recruiting candidates as they are overwhelmed by a deluge of eager newcomers, including doctors and veterans in traditionally red seats who have no political record for the GOP to attack - almost a mirror image of 2010.
Hey everyone who wants to win with a 50 state strategy, and we maybe stop demonizing anyone who has ever voted Republican and take the advice of the Democratic governor of Montana?
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:01 AM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:01 AM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
stop demonizing anyone who has ever voted Republican
Is severe eye rolling sprain a pre-existing condition?
posted by Etrigan at 8:03 AM on May 5, 2017 [20 favorites]
Is severe eye rolling sprain a pre-existing condition?
posted by Etrigan at 8:03 AM on May 5, 2017 [20 favorites]
ivankatrump.com: Ivanka’s Weekend Dinner: A Cozy Winter Night In
A menu to warm you up from the inside out.
I'll save you the click: it's a recipe for Peasant Vegetable Soup. I didn't check but I assume it's made from actual peasants.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:05 AM on May 5, 2017 [35 favorites]
A menu to warm you up from the inside out.
I'll save you the click: it's a recipe for Peasant Vegetable Soup. I didn't check but I assume it's made from actual peasants.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:05 AM on May 5, 2017 [35 favorites]
It is no exaggeration to say that if it were to become law, this bill would kill significant numbers of Americans
This is probably true at first, but serious question: wouldn't it also force hospitals etc. to eventually actually start lowering their ridiculous chargemaster prices?
posted by Melismata at 8:06 AM on May 5, 2017
This is probably true at first, but serious question: wouldn't it also force hospitals etc. to eventually actually start lowering their ridiculous chargemaster prices?
posted by Melismata at 8:06 AM on May 5, 2017
Hey everyone who wants to win with a 50 state strategy, and we maybe stop demonizing anyone who has ever voted Republican
Nah. It's TRUTH and reconciliation, not just reconciliation. When they start voting for Democrats or non-evil independents, I'll start believing we might have shared values. Until that happens, I have no evidence to believe that we have common goals or are interested in working toward a common vision.
posted by melissasaurus at 8:07 AM on May 5, 2017 [14 favorites]
Nah. It's TRUTH and reconciliation, not just reconciliation. When they start voting for Democrats or non-evil independents, I'll start believing we might have shared values. Until that happens, I have no evidence to believe that we have common goals or are interested in working toward a common vision.
posted by melissasaurus at 8:07 AM on May 5, 2017 [14 favorites]
From TPM: The Trumpcare Butcher Block Celebration in Photos, Annotated
It's sick-making to look at their grotesque, gloating grins, as they celebrate their negligent, killer "legislation". Each representative who voted for this travesty voted for stealing coverage from tens of thousands of their own constituents. Republican legislators are very insecure, disturbed, pathological selfish people.
All this hoopla for a "win" in the most superficial sense.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:07 AM on May 5, 2017 [30 favorites]
It was a big day yesterday. Against the expectations of many, House Republicans were able to come back from a demoralizing defeat in March and pass a slightly revised version of their “American Health Care Act.” That is to say, repeal Obamcare and replace it with Trumpcare. After passing it with 217 votes, they partied, bigly. Here’s a collection of photographs of the good times, annotated with the number of people who will lose their health care coverage in each representative’s district.These pictures don't even count the amount of people who will lose coverage in Democratic districts, either. I'm sure the numbers are even worse.
It's sick-making to look at their grotesque, gloating grins, as they celebrate their negligent, killer "legislation". Each representative who voted for this travesty voted for stealing coverage from tens of thousands of their own constituents. Republican legislators are very insecure, disturbed, pathological selfish people.
All this hoopla for a "win" in the most superficial sense.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:07 AM on May 5, 2017 [30 favorites]
But it doesn't change the fact that Republicans lied, and those lying candidates also need to be held responsible for breaking their (impossible) promises.
The Democrats badly, badly need to deliver a consistent message that Republicans lie all the time. They have a tough row to hoe, because the prevailing narrative in the media is that all politicians lie, yet they are loath to actually call them out as such, but the story about Republicans that Democrats need to push is that Republicans lie about the outcomes of their agenda, because those outcomes are not popular.
It isn't a lie, per se, for Republicans to go on NPR and say that they are giving the states waivers because they believe in Federalism. it isn't true, and it isn't why they are voted for this garbage bill, but it's a plausible-sounding principle, and the observation of this stupid pantomime has been a media tradition, unfortunately.
But Republicans have to go far beyond, now, because people do not want to lose their health insurance, and so Republicans have to claim they won't. That's a lie, and Democrats need not only to point those lies out, but use them to point out a -- Republicans have to lie about their policies, because if they didn't, they wouldn't pass.
posted by Gelatin at 8:07 AM on May 5, 2017 [14 favorites]
The Democrats badly, badly need to deliver a consistent message that Republicans lie all the time. They have a tough row to hoe, because the prevailing narrative in the media is that all politicians lie, yet they are loath to actually call them out as such, but the story about Republicans that Democrats need to push is that Republicans lie about the outcomes of their agenda, because those outcomes are not popular.
It isn't a lie, per se, for Republicans to go on NPR and say that they are giving the states waivers because they believe in Federalism. it isn't true, and it isn't why they are voted for this garbage bill, but it's a plausible-sounding principle, and the observation of this stupid pantomime has been a media tradition, unfortunately.
But Republicans have to go far beyond, now, because people do not want to lose their health insurance, and so Republicans have to claim they won't. That's a lie, and Democrats need not only to point those lies out, but use them to point out a -- Republicans have to lie about their policies, because if they didn't, they wouldn't pass.
posted by Gelatin at 8:07 AM on May 5, 2017 [14 favorites]
Jalliah: Halfway through they suddenly packed up, said they was leaving, that they weren't going to take this bullshit anymore and that they were tired of sitting there and being constantly insulted by people who don't know what they are talking about.
Say what????? Really? Seriously?
No one insulted them. They hadn't even commented on anything. No one brought up anything US at all beyond the car thing.
Some facts can make people angry, to the point that their brain reacts the same way as if they were physically attacked (Recent MeFi article about a short comic from The Oatmeal's Matthew Inman).
I experienced something like this, but from the opposite direction. I was in a class that was supposed to cover the economics of ecology or something similar (it's been over a decade, so I'm hazy on the details), but the professor was coming at it from a "capitalism is good, nature is dumb/doomed" viewpoint, which lead to a number of the students dropping the course. I recall him asking the class how much each individual would be willing to spend to save a single species, then how much they would spend to save another species, pointing out that an individual can't save everything. But his end point was "so nature is not worth saving, if the individual can't make a difference," not "this is why conservation isn't a species-by-species solo funding effort, but something we do more broadly." Yeah, I'm still pissed at that nonsense, but I appreciate hearing detailed thoughts from someone whose worldview is so far from mine.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:10 AM on May 5, 2017 [11 favorites]
Say what????? Really? Seriously?
No one insulted them. They hadn't even commented on anything. No one brought up anything US at all beyond the car thing.
Some facts can make people angry, to the point that their brain reacts the same way as if they were physically attacked (Recent MeFi article about a short comic from The Oatmeal's Matthew Inman).
I experienced something like this, but from the opposite direction. I was in a class that was supposed to cover the economics of ecology or something similar (it's been over a decade, so I'm hazy on the details), but the professor was coming at it from a "capitalism is good, nature is dumb/doomed" viewpoint, which lead to a number of the students dropping the course. I recall him asking the class how much each individual would be willing to spend to save a single species, then how much they would spend to save another species, pointing out that an individual can't save everything. But his end point was "so nature is not worth saving, if the individual can't make a difference," not "this is why conservation isn't a species-by-species solo funding effort, but something we do more broadly." Yeah, I'm still pissed at that nonsense, but I appreciate hearing detailed thoughts from someone whose worldview is so far from mine.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:10 AM on May 5, 2017 [11 favorites]
hospitals etc. to eventually actually start lowering their ridiculous chargemaster prices?
It's incredibly complicated, because a lot of hospitals charge insurance plans exorbitant amounts in order to account for the patients that can't pay. Lowering prices wouldn't be sufficient for the 40% or 50% of Americans with less than $1k in savings. If all patients had a insurance plan that covered their services, and negotiations around reimbursement could be centralized, then there would be a path to clear, cost-effective pricing of hospital services. AHCA will not do this. Single Payer will.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:13 AM on May 5, 2017 [29 favorites]
It's incredibly complicated, because a lot of hospitals charge insurance plans exorbitant amounts in order to account for the patients that can't pay. Lowering prices wouldn't be sufficient for the 40% or 50% of Americans with less than $1k in savings. If all patients had a insurance plan that covered their services, and negotiations around reimbursement could be centralized, then there would be a path to clear, cost-effective pricing of hospital services. AHCA will not do this. Single Payer will.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:13 AM on May 5, 2017 [29 favorites]
Obamacare repeal is class warfare
There is no disputing that the GOP’s American Health Care Act cuts taxes that primarily benefit high earners, while reducing government health care assistance to the impoverished. [...] Avik Roy, a leading conservative health wonk, warned in a Forbes column on Thursday that the House bill “would price millions of lower-income Americans out of their coverage,” a result he warned could “damage the credibility of free-market health reforms for a generation.” [...]posted by tonycpsu at 8:17 AM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
Helping the middle class is better politics than helping the poor
From a policy perspective, Furman says, “It is far more valid to think of this relative to current law” — by which he means, as a transfer from poor to rich. Politically, though, the poor-to-middle-class view helps explain some things. [...]
Republicans say the AHCA would simply be sweeping away that carcass and starting fresh — with a big emphasis on the benefits it would bring to the middle class. Their arguments Thursday hardly mentioned the rich, or, really, the very poor.
The easiest way to maintain those arguments is by treating the tax changes in the AHCA not as a new cut for high earners, but the righting of a brief policymaking error.
That tactic may not prove persuasive enough to lead the bill through the Senate, where Republicans have been far more vocal with concerns over cuts in aid to the poor — but in the House, it was just enough.
and take the advice of the Democratic governor of Montana?
But it’s not really a secret, or all that hard to figure out. Above all, spend time in places where people disagree with you. Reach out. Show up and make your argument. People will appreciate it, even if they are not inclined to vote for you. As a Democrat in a red state, I often spend days among crowds where there are almost no Democratic voters in sight. I listen to them, work with them and try to persuade them.
Democrats as a national party have ceased doing this. This has to change.
To recap:
- Democrats should nominate someone from Montana
- Hilary didn't go to Wisconsin (or Montana)
- Please think of the Trump voter's feelings
Yep, that should do it.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:20 AM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
But it’s not really a secret, or all that hard to figure out. Above all, spend time in places where people disagree with you. Reach out. Show up and make your argument. People will appreciate it, even if they are not inclined to vote for you. As a Democrat in a red state, I often spend days among crowds where there are almost no Democratic voters in sight. I listen to them, work with them and try to persuade them.
Democrats as a national party have ceased doing this. This has to change.
To recap:
- Democrats should nominate someone from Montana
- Hilary didn't go to Wisconsin (or Montana)
- Please think of the Trump voter's feelings
Yep, that should do it.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:20 AM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
Regarding "Ivanka Trump's" recipe.
Isn't the hashtag #ITathome for "My router isn't working?"
Parenthetically, while googleing around, I observed that Martha Stewart tagged her Texas Margarita ( with orange juice ) as an <30 minute recipe, which I find strangely comforting.
posted by mikelieman at 8:21 AM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
Isn't the hashtag #ITathome for "My router isn't working?"
Parenthetically, while googleing around, I observed that Martha Stewart tagged her Texas Margarita ( with orange juice ) as an <30 minute recipe, which I find strangely comforting.
posted by mikelieman at 8:21 AM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
Republicans say the AHCA would simply be sweeping away that carcass and starting fresh — with a big emphasis on the benefits it would bring to the middle class.
But what were the benefits? Doing away with preexisting condition protection, cutting Medicaid and Medicare, bringing back lifetime payout caps - these all damage the middle class.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:23 AM on May 5, 2017 [12 favorites]
But what were the benefits? Doing away with preexisting condition protection, cutting Medicaid and Medicare, bringing back lifetime payout caps - these all damage the middle class.
For many individual, middle-class Americans — those with preexisting conditions or chronic illnesses that require lifetime treatments — the changes to insurance regulations under the AHCA could prove financially devastating. But on a broader level, thinking of the country in big income brackets, the bill delivers wins for many in the middle class.I kind of get this, but middle class people will eventually get sick, or have parents/children/dependents who do. A hypothetical 35 yo white male with no dependents making $75k a year, this looks good. For everyone else, including every woman, this bill is a fucking disaster.
The AHCA continues to deliver government subsidies for Americans who buy health insurance on the individual marketplace, though for many people, those subsidies would be smaller. In some cases — for individuals earning between $50,000 and $75,000 a year — it delivers subsidies where Obamacare did not.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:23 AM on May 5, 2017 [12 favorites]
T.D. Strange: The Trumpcare Butcher Block Celebration in Photos, Annotated
ALL WHITE PEOPLE, mostly old white dudes.
Fuck 'em all.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:23 AM on May 5, 2017 [22 favorites]
ALL WHITE PEOPLE, mostly old white dudes.
Fuck 'em all.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:23 AM on May 5, 2017 [22 favorites]
This is probably true at first, but serious question: wouldn't it also force hospitals etc. to eventually actually start lowering their ridiculous chargemaster prices?
There's no reason to lower chargemaster prices because nobody who has the money to pay those prices actually pays those prices. It's all about a starting point for negotiations as well as offsetting, as Existential Dread says, some of the inevitable non-payment from the indigent. When there's a $6 aspirin on a bill there's several things going into that.
The least unreasonable part is just that managing a big operation like a hospital, particularly with the standards that need to be hewed to both in best practices and in regulation. It's not really different than why a convention center charges an insane amount of money for a boxed lunch; it reflects scope and all the support that goes into getting it all put together and delivered to its final destination.
The "unreasonable starting point" thing is there so they can hand the uninsured a bill and, from that point, negotiate discounts and payment plans. In that way it's not really all that different from how those chargemasters get discounted for insurance companies, except that the lone individual has less negotiating power both because they're just one person and because it's a post-facto negotiation.
There also may be tax benefits to the hospital in having an initial assessment that they then write off a portion of as uncollectable. That's way beyond my amateur reading knowledge but it jibes with standard accounting.
So less insured people, I would wager, makes it even less likely there's discounts off that initial point. When you know you have people using your services that have no choice, little opportunity to comparison shop, and who you'll eventually have to make an effort chasing down... why lower prices?
posted by phearlez at 8:26 AM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
There's no reason to lower chargemaster prices because nobody who has the money to pay those prices actually pays those prices. It's all about a starting point for negotiations as well as offsetting, as Existential Dread says, some of the inevitable non-payment from the indigent. When there's a $6 aspirin on a bill there's several things going into that.
The least unreasonable part is just that managing a big operation like a hospital, particularly with the standards that need to be hewed to both in best practices and in regulation. It's not really different than why a convention center charges an insane amount of money for a boxed lunch; it reflects scope and all the support that goes into getting it all put together and delivered to its final destination.
The "unreasonable starting point" thing is there so they can hand the uninsured a bill and, from that point, negotiate discounts and payment plans. In that way it's not really all that different from how those chargemasters get discounted for insurance companies, except that the lone individual has less negotiating power both because they're just one person and because it's a post-facto negotiation.
There also may be tax benefits to the hospital in having an initial assessment that they then write off a portion of as uncollectable. That's way beyond my amateur reading knowledge but it jibes with standard accounting.
So less insured people, I would wager, makes it even less likely there's discounts off that initial point. When you know you have people using your services that have no choice, little opportunity to comparison shop, and who you'll eventually have to make an effort chasing down... why lower prices?
posted by phearlez at 8:26 AM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
Above all, spend time in places where people disagree with you.
Andrew Goodman
Reach out. Show up and make your argument.
Mickey Schwerner
People will appreciate it, even if they are not inclined to vote for you.
James Chaney
I'm glad it's working for this guy. I hope it works for Democrats all over the place. But it's not a magic bullet, because there are still real bullets.
posted by Etrigan at 8:28 AM on May 5, 2017 [6 favorites]
Andrew Goodman
Reach out. Show up and make your argument.
Mickey Schwerner
People will appreciate it, even if they are not inclined to vote for you.
James Chaney
I'm glad it's working for this guy. I hope it works for Democrats all over the place. But it's not a magic bullet, because there are still real bullets.
posted by Etrigan at 8:28 AM on May 5, 2017 [6 favorites]
Ok. Then why is everyone getting bent out of shape over prices that practically no one is going to actually pay?
posted by Melismata at 8:29 AM on May 5, 2017
posted by Melismata at 8:29 AM on May 5, 2017
Because they can and do still sue you over the fantastical prices. And the negotiated down price is still exorbitant and precludes care. And because what dying people are best at is completing detailed paperwork and intense negotiating over how much it will cost them to die.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:35 AM on May 5, 2017 [48 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:35 AM on May 5, 2017 [48 favorites]
zachlipton: Some good analysis from Julie Rovner at KHN, including a brief discussion of the potential Byrd Rule problems that await: A Squeaker In The House Becomes Headache For The Senate: 5 Things To Watch.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:37 AM on May 5, 2017 [10 favorites]
- Medicaid --
For the first time, federal funding for low-income people on Medicaid would be limited, resulting in what House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) described at an event sponsored by the conservative National Review as “sending it back to the states, capping its growth rates.” It’s a longtime goal for many conservatives. Said Ryan, “We’ve been dreaming of this since I’ve been around.”
- Increase In Number Of Uninsured People --
The Congressional Budget Office’s initial estimate that the bill could lead to 24 million more Americans without health insurance within a decade spooked many lawmakers in the upper chamber. “You can’t sugarcoat it,” Cassidy told Fox News when explaining that “it’s an awful score.” The final House bill passed without the score being updated, although most outside analysts said the changes were likely to increase the number who would lose insurance.
- Tax Credits --
... some conservatives in the Senate are ideologically opposed to offering any tax credits. Sens. Ted Cruz (R-Texas), Mike Lee (R-Utah) and Rand Paul (R-Ky.) have all expressed concerns about the bill being too much like the ACA, with Paul referring to it as “Obamacare Lite.” They worry that the tax credits amount to a new entitlement. “For me, it’s a big stumbling block still that there’s taxpayer money that’s being given to insurance companies,” Paul told reporters in late April. “And I’m just not in favor of taxpayer money going to insurance companies.”
- Planned Parenthood --
As Republicans have been vowing for years, the House-passed bill would defund Planned Parenthood, although only for a year. That’s likely because a permanent defunding would actually cost the federal government more money, according to the CBO, as some women who lose access to birth control would become pregnant, have babies and qualify for Medicaid. Birth control is vastly cheaper than health care for mothers and babies. But while cutting funding for Planned Parenthood is overwhelmingly popular in the House, there are a handful of GOP senators, including Collins and Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska), who have said they are likely to oppose a bill carrying this provision.
- Procedural Problems --
The budget process Republicans are using to avoid a Democratic filibuster in the Senate, called reconciliation, has very strict rules that require every piece of the bill to be directly related to the federal budget. It will be up to the Senate parliamentarian, a Republican appointee, to make those determinations. That’s why the bill does not wipe away all the ACA’s private insurance regulations, including the requirement that insurers not discriminate against customers who have preexisting health conditions. Some analysts have suggested that the House amendment sought by conservatives to allow states to waive some of the health law’s regulations might run afoul of Senate’s “Byrd Rule,” which limits what can be included in a budget reconciliation measure. “It could be argued that any budgetary effects of the waiver are ‘merely incidental,’” said the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget in a blog post. Even Rep. Mark Meadows, R-N.C., who negotiated that amendment that won the backing of conservatives, conceded that it could prove problematic in the upper chamber. “There’s still a lot of work that needs to be done before we can celebrate and all go home,” he said in an interview outside the House chamber.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:37 AM on May 5, 2017 [10 favorites]
it's worth acknowledging and thanking The Post's Ashley Parker for largely avoiding all that in Trump crows about his health-care victory — even though he hasn’t really won yet. She even avoids using the phrase "repeal and replace," which is a campaign promise and inaccurate
NPR, by contrast, has been using that phrase all the time.
posted by Gelatin at 8:37 AM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
NPR, by contrast, has been using that phrase all the time.
posted by Gelatin at 8:37 AM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
Then why is everyone getting bent out of shape over prices that practically no one is going to actually pay?
Because if you don't have an insurer, the hospital has less incentive to negotiate with you because you don't have much power as an individual. And because these prices will bankrupt you, and ruin your credit, and the collection agencies will pursue you.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:38 AM on May 5, 2017 [21 favorites]
Because if you don't have an insurer, the hospital has less incentive to negotiate with you because you don't have much power as an individual. And because these prices will bankrupt you, and ruin your credit, and the collection agencies will pursue you.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:38 AM on May 5, 2017 [21 favorites]
Because they can and do still sue you over the fantastical prices.
Ah, here's the rub. Now I'm understanding it better. Let's focus on these fuckers, shall we?
posted by Melismata at 8:39 AM on May 5, 2017
Ah, here's the rub. Now I'm understanding it better. Let's focus on these fuckers, shall we?
posted by Melismata at 8:39 AM on May 5, 2017
Hey everyone who wants to win with a 50 state strategy, and we maybe stop demonizing anyone who has ever voted Republican
Nah. It's TRUTH and reconciliation, not just reconciliation. When they start voting for Democrats or non-evil independents, I'll start believing we might have shared values.
As I think whenever this debate comes up, it isn't one or the other. I, as an individual, can believe that I have very little in common politically or even morally with many Republican voters, that they are deluded, too willing to endorse hate, etc, and I can believe that this is true of Republican legislators in spades. I can even say that I believe all this and I can still think it's in the interest of Democratic candidates to try to make some effort to appeal to possible, potential, or traditional Republican voters. Now what that effort might consist of is going to vary from candidate to candidate and from campaign to campaign and reasonable people can and will differ on where to say "the appeal stops here." (See also similar debates on the use of resources and time.) That said, there's no necessary conflict between these two statements. And too often people want to conflate—for a variety of sincere and disingenuous reasons—speaking, writing, opining, as individuals with campaigning as a party and as a candidate.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:41 AM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
Nah. It's TRUTH and reconciliation, not just reconciliation. When they start voting for Democrats or non-evil independents, I'll start believing we might have shared values.
As I think whenever this debate comes up, it isn't one or the other. I, as an individual, can believe that I have very little in common politically or even morally with many Republican voters, that they are deluded, too willing to endorse hate, etc, and I can believe that this is true of Republican legislators in spades. I can even say that I believe all this and I can still think it's in the interest of Democratic candidates to try to make some effort to appeal to possible, potential, or traditional Republican voters. Now what that effort might consist of is going to vary from candidate to candidate and from campaign to campaign and reasonable people can and will differ on where to say "the appeal stops here." (See also similar debates on the use of resources and time.) That said, there's no necessary conflict between these two statements. And too often people want to conflate—for a variety of sincere and disingenuous reasons—speaking, writing, opining, as individuals with campaigning as a party and as a candidate.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:41 AM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
If you need a break from all this adult shit, take a couple minutes to enjoy Kevin Fredericks being interviewed by his sons Isaiah Fredericks (9), and Josiah Fredericks (7) on Story Corps (transcript included, but hearing their little voices and laughter makes my heart glow).
JF: Why do things rhyme?posted by filthy light thief at 8:45 AM on May 5, 2017 [9 favorites]
IF: How’s he supposed to know that?
KF: [Laughs]
JF: Why can’t we have a van?
KF: [Laughs] Why can’t we have a van? Why are you asking these questions? Why do you want a van?
JF: [Laughs] Why can’t I be more like you?
KF: What do you mean?
JF: I know I look like you, but more like you.
KF: Because you’ve got to be yourself, man. Follow your own path and enjoy being a kid. Being an adult is not as fun as it looks. Enjoy having nothing in your pockets, and no keys, and somebody else being responsible for buying all your food. Because one day you’re going to look up and say, ‘Man, I had it so easy.’ Who cut the peanut butter sandwiches in your life? I did! I cut hundreds and hundreds of peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. [Laughs]
To recap
Not that we can necessarily glean that much more from that Montana-governor article, but people in "red" states in the central/mountain west do often exhibit a less-entrenched version of Republican than what you might find in the south (or for that matter in Pennsylvania).
WY / ID / MT for example both have a lot of the small-l libertarianism that comes from not really having much local government to interact with, and a lot of younger Independents who have never run for anything local because the local establishment has always been Republican. That kinda thing can flip really easily; we're seeing a galvanized group of younger women preparing to run for office as Democrats for the first time since I lived there 20 years ago.
posted by aspersioncast at 8:48 AM on May 5, 2017 [20 favorites]
Not that we can necessarily glean that much more from that Montana-governor article, but people in "red" states in the central/mountain west do often exhibit a less-entrenched version of Republican than what you might find in the south (or for that matter in Pennsylvania).
WY / ID / MT for example both have a lot of the small-l libertarianism that comes from not really having much local government to interact with, and a lot of younger Independents who have never run for anything local because the local establishment has always been Republican. That kinda thing can flip really easily; we're seeing a galvanized group of younger women preparing to run for office as Democrats for the first time since I lived there 20 years ago.
posted by aspersioncast at 8:48 AM on May 5, 2017 [20 favorites]
When they start voting for Democrats or non-evil independents, I'll start believing we might have shared values.
Read the linked article. They do vote for Democrats. Montana's governor (a Democrat they voted for) believes they vote for Democrats who engage with them, listen to them, and explain their positions without condescension.
posted by rocket88 at 8:50 AM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
Read the linked article. They do vote for Democrats. Montana's governor (a Democrat they voted for) believes they vote for Democrats who engage with them, listen to them, and explain their positions without condescension.
posted by rocket88 at 8:50 AM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
Why are these the "Related Posts" at the end of this thread? Insult to injury?
Related Posts
"Guess what, folks: We're taking back San Francisco." December 14, 2000
Bush, by a technicality. December 12, 2000
It's a split Senate. December 2, 2000
I looked at the Green Party platform November 29, 2000
Trial By Combat November 27, 2000
posted by petebest at 8:50 AM on May 5, 2017 [7 favorites]
Related Posts
"Guess what, folks: We're taking back San Francisco." December 14, 2000
Bush, by a technicality. December 12, 2000
It's a split Senate. December 2, 2000
I looked at the Green Party platform November 29, 2000
Trial By Combat November 27, 2000
posted by petebest at 8:50 AM on May 5, 2017 [7 favorites]
Because they can and do still sue you over the fantastical prices. And the negotiated down price is still exorbitant and precludes care. And because what dying people are best at is completing detailed paperwork and intense negotiating over how much it will cost them to die.
And let us not forget that in some circumstances you may find that the forgiven debt is reported to the IRS on a 1099-C and you've now got a tax liability for it.
Ah, here's the rub. Now I'm understanding it better. Let's focus on these fuckers, shall we?
Well, we did. There are a number of provisions in the ACA that aim to bend the cost curve, and some of them address the chargemaster. From here:
That article is worth a look because it also reveals just how much damage this administration can do to ACA implementation just by being fucksticks. Law rarely starts and ends with the code; in most cases the law then means that agencies turn around and write the regulations to implement the law. Probably the most understandable place this happens is with taxes, where the law speaks in generalities and then the IRS has to codify the specifics. But this article speaks to how this happens in ACA implementation and if you're at all curious about how the sausage is made this is a bit of a peek behind the curtain.
posted by phearlez at 8:52 AM on May 5, 2017 [11 favorites]
And let us not forget that in some circumstances you may find that the forgiven debt is reported to the IRS on a 1099-C and you've now got a tax liability for it.
Ah, here's the rub. Now I'm understanding it better. Let's focus on these fuckers, shall we?
Well, we did. There are a number of provisions in the ACA that aim to bend the cost curve, and some of them address the chargemaster. From here:
79 Fed. Reg. 49854, 50146 (Aug. 22, 2014). CMS states that Congress included this provision in the ACA in order “to help patients understand what their potential financial liability might be for services they obtain at the hospital, and to enable patients to compare charges for similar services across hospitals.” Id.So for disingenuous evidence item #234567898765433456789987654 on repealing the ACA, here we have a provision that exists to help consumers shop for values in care, something we hear a lot about as something folks should do. (We'll just set aside how inane the idea is that someone needing hospitalization can do this sort of research)
That article is worth a look because it also reveals just how much damage this administration can do to ACA implementation just by being fucksticks. Law rarely starts and ends with the code; in most cases the law then means that agencies turn around and write the regulations to implement the law. Probably the most understandable place this happens is with taxes, where the law speaks in generalities and then the IRS has to codify the specifics. But this article speaks to how this happens in ACA implementation and if you're at all curious about how the sausage is made this is a bit of a peek behind the curtain.
posted by phearlez at 8:52 AM on May 5, 2017 [11 favorites]
Who gets hurt — and when — if Trumpcare becomes law: The political fight is happening with lightning speed. The law’s pain would trickle down over time.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:00 AM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 9:00 AM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
they vote for Democrats who engage with them, listen to them, and explain their positions without condescension.
See, that's a different story. There's no way to measure "condescension." There's no way to even know what it means in the context of a political campaign, short of, say, Candidate Bullworth explicitly seeking the dumb fucker vote.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:01 AM on May 5, 2017 [12 favorites]
See, that's a different story. There's no way to measure "condescension." There's no way to even know what it means in the context of a political campaign, short of, say, Candidate Bullworth explicitly seeking the dumb fucker vote.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:01 AM on May 5, 2017 [12 favorites]
I can attest to not actually being able to negotiate with hospitals. I had a $14,000 bill that they wouldn't knock down at all. I was brought there by ambulance and had no choice, but there's nothing I could do.
posted by JakeEXTREME at 9:11 AM on May 5, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by JakeEXTREME at 9:11 AM on May 5, 2017 [9 favorites]
List of Senators who will be working on their version of the AHCA: McConnell, Hatch, Alexander, Enzi, Thune, Cruz, Lee, Cotton, Gardner, Barrasso, Cornyn, Portman.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:11 AM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:11 AM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
There's no way to measure "condescension."
Talking about minorities = condescension
Talking about climate change = condescension
Talking about gun control = condescension
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:16 AM on May 5, 2017 [41 favorites]
Talking about minorities = condescension
Talking about climate change = condescension
Talking about gun control = condescension
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:16 AM on May 5, 2017 [41 favorites]
@ddiamond (Politico): SCOOP: White House plans to effectively kill Office of National Drug Control Policy, currently the lead agency fighting the opioids crisis. White House budget calls for 95% funding cut, zeroing out high-intensity drug trafficking and drug-free communities support programs.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:25 AM on May 5, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 9:25 AM on May 5, 2017 [28 favorites]
And yet many of us were puzzled by the Democrats’ resistance to make any changes at all to the Affordable Care Act, given the often outrageously high premiums and deductibles.
Speaking as someone who voted for your fool ass, Steve, this is a load of bullshit, and you fucking know it. The Democrats wanted to fix the ACA, but with Congress in GOP control, they couldn't. And you not properly assigning blame is why they keep fucking getting away with it.
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:27 AM on May 5, 2017 [29 favorites]
Speaking as someone who voted for your fool ass, Steve, this is a load of bullshit, and you fucking know it. The Democrats wanted to fix the ACA, but with Congress in GOP control, they couldn't. And you not properly assigning blame is why they keep fucking getting away with it.
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:27 AM on May 5, 2017 [29 favorites]
Holy fuck, I just realized there will be a state funeral for him.
There's a seriously excellent TV show on Netflix called The Crown, which is planned to be sixty hours over six seasons, showing the reign of Queen Elizabeth II. She frequently deals with foreign dignitaries. And one day in November, I realized that there was going to be a new and unexpected character in Season Six.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:27 AM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
There's a seriously excellent TV show on Netflix called The Crown, which is planned to be sixty hours over six seasons, showing the reign of Queen Elizabeth II. She frequently deals with foreign dignitaries. And one day in November, I realized that there was going to be a new and unexpected character in Season Six.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:27 AM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
I think he will especially enjoy being on the dollar coin.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:28 AM on May 5, 2017
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:28 AM on May 5, 2017
I think he will especially enjoy being on the dollar coin.
Stick him on the one trillion dollar note that will need to be printed after they Kansasize the economy.
posted by Talez at 9:30 AM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
Stick him on the one trillion dollar note that will need to be printed after they Kansasize the economy.
posted by Talez at 9:30 AM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
Here's the full article of the tweet someone mentioned above:
Trump budget would effectively kill drug control office
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:35 AM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
Trump budget would effectively kill drug control office
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:35 AM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
one trillion dollar note
Uh-uh. Three dollar bill.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:36 AM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
Uh-uh. Three dollar bill.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:36 AM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
>There's no way to measure "condescension."
Talking about minorities = condescension
Talking about climate change = condescension
Talking about gun control = condescension
No really, you guys. I'm sending my mom text messages telling her there is "something wrong with her conscience" for voting Republican, when her own granddaughters - my daughters - have a genetic condition that will be "pre-existing" for them for the rest of their lives. I'm really really mad, okay?
And because I'm really really mad, I want to win.
And because I want to win, I want to turn some Republican voters into former Republican voters. (Probably not my mom though. She's a hopeless case.)
The people who live in the midwest and mountain west? Their votes count more than those of people who live on the coasts. Literally. The electoral college vote to population ratio is 3.5 times higher for Wyoming than California. That means that in a presidential election, the votes of people from Wyoming count 3.5 times more than the votes of people from california. It's just as bad in terms of House representation and even worse for the Senate. Those are valuable votes.
You can do your thing getting higher turnout and energizing people who haven't been politically engaged before, and that's great and all. But if all those new voters are in California and New York, in urban areas, you will NOT get more power. In 2016 the majority of people voted for Democrats for the House, Senate, and Presidency. But we control none the above. That's because California and New York only have as many electoral votes and representatives as they have, and those are almost all going to Democrats anyway (and the seats that are going to Republicans are the ones that represent rural districts that look more like the midwest and mountain west.)
So even while being really really angry at the people I know in the midwest and the mountain west who voted for this crap (which is probably the vast majority of people I actually know in real life) I also want to go get their votes. I'm thinking that's going to take both the "shame" stick (preferably from their own friends and neighbors and family) and the "we really care about you" carrot (preferably from the Democratic candidates running in these states).
"We really care about you," looks like "We want to bring jobs to your communities. We want your local institutions to thrive, including your churches and your schools. We think you are good people."
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:47 AM on May 5, 2017 [20 favorites]
Talking about minorities = condescension
Talking about climate change = condescension
Talking about gun control = condescension
No really, you guys. I'm sending my mom text messages telling her there is "something wrong with her conscience" for voting Republican, when her own granddaughters - my daughters - have a genetic condition that will be "pre-existing" for them for the rest of their lives. I'm really really mad, okay?
And because I'm really really mad, I want to win.
And because I want to win, I want to turn some Republican voters into former Republican voters. (Probably not my mom though. She's a hopeless case.)
The people who live in the midwest and mountain west? Their votes count more than those of people who live on the coasts. Literally. The electoral college vote to population ratio is 3.5 times higher for Wyoming than California. That means that in a presidential election, the votes of people from Wyoming count 3.5 times more than the votes of people from california. It's just as bad in terms of House representation and even worse for the Senate. Those are valuable votes.
You can do your thing getting higher turnout and energizing people who haven't been politically engaged before, and that's great and all. But if all those new voters are in California and New York, in urban areas, you will NOT get more power. In 2016 the majority of people voted for Democrats for the House, Senate, and Presidency. But we control none the above. That's because California and New York only have as many electoral votes and representatives as they have, and those are almost all going to Democrats anyway (and the seats that are going to Republicans are the ones that represent rural districts that look more like the midwest and mountain west.)
So even while being really really angry at the people I know in the midwest and the mountain west who voted for this crap (which is probably the vast majority of people I actually know in real life) I also want to go get their votes. I'm thinking that's going to take both the "shame" stick (preferably from their own friends and neighbors and family) and the "we really care about you" carrot (preferably from the Democratic candidates running in these states).
"We really care about you," looks like "We want to bring jobs to your communities. We want your local institutions to thrive, including your churches and your schools. We think you are good people."
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:47 AM on May 5, 2017 [20 favorites]
Trump budget would effectively kill drug control office
I am really conflicted on stories about the proposed budget out of the White House. On the pro side, it's absolutely worth highlighting what this administration really cares about and what they indicate they want to do. On the other, this budget is both typical of the Trump administration's just say whatever practices and it has basically zero chance of being enacted.
So I worry that it's in gish territory and working to get all the indignation wrung up and worn out by the time the real shenanigans happen. I have zero patience with people calling actual happening things distractions because fuck you, people can care about different things. But in this case it really is just WH fanfic that they can't get passed. So if we're going to have people upset about the State Department it would be better to focus on what they're doing - deliberately failing to fill literal thousands of vacancies - versus what they want to do but very likely cannot because of procedural roadblocks.
If it was just the procedural stuff I'd be more sanguine about it, but a lot of the stuff in these proposals are anathema to the house and senate republicans. I guess after the AHCA house passage I should take less comfort from that, as it seems to me that many of those members have seriously endangered their reelection chances. But some of these proposed cuts don't even line up with congressional sensibilities. What's the real likelihood they'll introduce a budget that will cut stuff they like that benefits their constituent districts?
posted by phearlez at 9:49 AM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
I am really conflicted on stories about the proposed budget out of the White House. On the pro side, it's absolutely worth highlighting what this administration really cares about and what they indicate they want to do. On the other, this budget is both typical of the Trump administration's just say whatever practices and it has basically zero chance of being enacted.
So I worry that it's in gish territory and working to get all the indignation wrung up and worn out by the time the real shenanigans happen. I have zero patience with people calling actual happening things distractions because fuck you, people can care about different things. But in this case it really is just WH fanfic that they can't get passed. So if we're going to have people upset about the State Department it would be better to focus on what they're doing - deliberately failing to fill literal thousands of vacancies - versus what they want to do but very likely cannot because of procedural roadblocks.
If it was just the procedural stuff I'd be more sanguine about it, but a lot of the stuff in these proposals are anathema to the house and senate republicans. I guess after the AHCA house passage I should take less comfort from that, as it seems to me that many of those members have seriously endangered their reelection chances. But some of these proposed cuts don't even line up with congressional sensibilities. What's the real likelihood they'll introduce a budget that will cut stuff they like that benefits their constituent districts?
posted by phearlez at 9:49 AM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
McConnell, Hatch, Alexander, Enzi, Thune, Cruz, Lee, Cotton, Gardner, Barrasso, Cornyn, Portman.
It's also the twelve most heartless, bigoted, misogynist, spiteful men in the Senate. Emphasis on "men" because not a single woman is on the list. These chucklefucks were chosen specifically to maximize any damage the bill can cause, especially to the poor and the marginalized.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:49 AM on May 5, 2017 [35 favorites]
It's also the twelve most heartless, bigoted, misogynist, spiteful men in the Senate. Emphasis on "men" because not a single woman is on the list. These chucklefucks were chosen specifically to maximize any damage the bill can cause, especially to the poor and the marginalized.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:49 AM on May 5, 2017 [35 favorites]
UM. Is this thing actually happening?
posted by schadenfrau at 9:51 AM on May 5, 2017
posted by schadenfrau at 9:51 AM on May 5, 2017
I made some easily sharable images for fellow New York State voters 1 2
posted by The Whelk at 9:52 AM on May 5, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 9:52 AM on May 5, 2017 [7 favorites]
Alaska state senator slaps reporter over story
Also: This purports to be an FDA email saying that all TVs have been switched to Fox News on the White Oak Campus. Unconfirmed and not from a known source, but a trustworthy reporter says the FDA won't confirm or deny right now.
posted by zachlipton at 9:55 AM on May 5, 2017 [8 favorites]
Alaska state Sen. David Wilson (R), upset over a newspaper story that highlighted legislation that would benefit a former employer of his, took out his frustration by slapping the reporter responsible for it.What is it with politicians from Wasilla?
Also: This purports to be an FDA email saying that all TVs have been switched to Fox News on the White Oak Campus. Unconfirmed and not from a known source, but a trustworthy reporter says the FDA won't confirm or deny right now.
posted by zachlipton at 9:55 AM on May 5, 2017 [8 favorites]
phearlez: That article is worth a look because it also reveals just how much damage this administration can do to ACA implementation just by being fucksticks. Law rarely starts and ends with the code; in most cases the law then means that agencies turn around and write the regulations to implement the law.
As someone who now lives by Federal laws, and spends time guessing at how those laws will be interpreted at the national level, then refined at the local level, this is key.
And even without new laws, we're are seeing that local chapter bureaucrats from federal agencies are pushing in new, unpleasant directions, questioning policies that were previously taken as standards.
So a new administration has the chance to change laws, but also the chance to change how laws are enforced and administered. ICE is probably the most obvious example, but from what I've seen and heard in the past few months, it truly is systemic. No one is safe, nothing is certain, and that last part may be the most damaging. You can't plan next year's budget without certainty, and from that, there is no certainty about what you an and will get done. Then there's all the regulations that may no longer be enforced, or get pushed a new direction, requiring everyone to shift how they did some element of their job, which means spending time figuring out how to work a new process out with all the related impacts, and in turn means less time to do other duties that are (for the time) still required of you.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:57 AM on May 5, 2017 [20 favorites]
As someone who now lives by Federal laws, and spends time guessing at how those laws will be interpreted at the national level, then refined at the local level, this is key.
And even without new laws, we're are seeing that local chapter bureaucrats from federal agencies are pushing in new, unpleasant directions, questioning policies that were previously taken as standards.
So a new administration has the chance to change laws, but also the chance to change how laws are enforced and administered. ICE is probably the most obvious example, but from what I've seen and heard in the past few months, it truly is systemic. No one is safe, nothing is certain, and that last part may be the most damaging. You can't plan next year's budget without certainty, and from that, there is no certainty about what you an and will get done. Then there's all the regulations that may no longer be enforced, or get pushed a new direction, requiring everyone to shift how they did some element of their job, which means spending time figuring out how to work a new process out with all the related impacts, and in turn means less time to do other duties that are (for the time) still required of you.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:57 AM on May 5, 2017 [20 favorites]
zachlipton I can confirm it from several different sources who received the email.
posted by aspersioncast at 9:57 AM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by aspersioncast at 9:57 AM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
Trump and Pence sent out a press release claiming that the networks refusing to air their ad is "setting a chilling precedent against free speech."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:58 AM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:58 AM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
UM. Is this thing actually happening?
ACA repeal? No. The Senate won't even vote on this bill. Anything is possible but ACA repeal will be extremely difficult.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:00 AM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
ACA repeal? No. The Senate won't even vote on this bill. Anything is possible but ACA repeal will be extremely difficult.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:00 AM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
This is probably true at first, but serious question: wouldn't it also force hospitals etc. to eventually actually start lowering their ridiculous chargemaster prices?
There was a federal program pre-Obamacare called DSH, Disproportionate Share Hospital, in which the Feds pay hospitals for uncompensated care when poor people go to the emergency room because they don't have insurance.
Obamacare cut back this program because, with the Medicaid expansion, the number of uninsured people showing up in the emergency room was drastically reduced. Every low income person was eligible for free or nearly free healthcare which paid the hospitals.
But Republican states that didn't implement Medicaid expansion out of spite, even though it was it was paid by the federal government, were screwed. Without Medicaid expansion, they still had the same number of uninsured show up in the emergency room but their DSH payments were cut back.
This made Republicans mad. Under Obamacare, Medicaid expansion money was directed to poor people, but Republicans wanted the old DSH system in which money was given to hospital corporations. So the Republican AHCA eliminates Medicaid expansion and restores increased DSH payments. It's back to the old "If you don't have insurance, just go to the emergency room" policy of pre-Obamacare. Of course this is a poor policy because it means that low income people don't get health care until it becomes an emergency.
So hospitals don't need to lower their prices. They will be given federal money under the revived DSH program.
posted by JackFlash at 10:00 AM on May 5, 2017 [24 favorites]
There was a federal program pre-Obamacare called DSH, Disproportionate Share Hospital, in which the Feds pay hospitals for uncompensated care when poor people go to the emergency room because they don't have insurance.
Obamacare cut back this program because, with the Medicaid expansion, the number of uninsured people showing up in the emergency room was drastically reduced. Every low income person was eligible for free or nearly free healthcare which paid the hospitals.
But Republican states that didn't implement Medicaid expansion out of spite, even though it was it was paid by the federal government, were screwed. Without Medicaid expansion, they still had the same number of uninsured show up in the emergency room but their DSH payments were cut back.
This made Republicans mad. Under Obamacare, Medicaid expansion money was directed to poor people, but Republicans wanted the old DSH system in which money was given to hospital corporations. So the Republican AHCA eliminates Medicaid expansion and restores increased DSH payments. It's back to the old "If you don't have insurance, just go to the emergency room" policy of pre-Obamacare. Of course this is a poor policy because it means that low income people don't get health care until it becomes an emergency.
So hospitals don't need to lower their prices. They will be given federal money under the revived DSH program.
posted by JackFlash at 10:00 AM on May 5, 2017 [24 favorites]
Keith Olbermann goes all in, breaking an update on Trump/Russia. There's a lot of caveats sprinkled throughout but this could be big.
@KeithOlbermann NEW VIDEO: There is good reason to believe a Virginia Grand Jury is now hearing evidence in The Trump/Russia Case
posted by scalefree at 10:01 AM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
@KeithOlbermann NEW VIDEO: There is good reason to believe a Virginia Grand Jury is now hearing evidence in The Trump/Russia Case
posted by scalefree at 10:01 AM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
This purports to be an FDA email saying that all TVs have been switched to Fox News on the White Oak Campus. Unconfirmed and not from a known source, but a trustworthy reporter says the FDA won't confirm or deny right now.
The TV thing is SOP for federal buildings, or at least since 2002. Under Dubya it was Fox News, then under the Obama administration it was MSNBC. They'd already switched it back to FNC as early as March in the HHS buildings I've worked at.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:02 AM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
The TV thing is SOP for federal buildings, or at least since 2002. Under Dubya it was Fox News, then under the Obama administration it was MSNBC. They'd already switched it back to FNC as early as March in the HHS buildings I've worked at.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:02 AM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's back to the old "If you don't have insurance, just go to the emergency room" policy of pre-Obamacare. Of course this is a poor policy because it means that low income people don't get health care until it becomes an emergency.
Also, an ever-increasing number of emergency rooms are affiliated with the Catholic church, so you can't get comprehensive reproductive healthcare like a life-saving abortion for an ectopic pregnancy at said emergency rooms.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:03 AM on May 5, 2017 [27 favorites]
Also, an ever-increasing number of emergency rooms are affiliated with the Catholic church, so you can't get comprehensive reproductive healthcare like a life-saving abortion for an ectopic pregnancy at said emergency rooms.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:03 AM on May 5, 2017 [27 favorites]
Olbermann has about as much credibility as Mensch these days, I'm not getting any hopes up.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:05 AM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:05 AM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
Michael Cohen update! This Is The Inside Of Trump’s Lawyer’s Passport: Michael Cohen has repeatedly denied it. But one of his first responses in the wake of the allegations — tweeting a photograph of his passport cover — was widely criticized for failing to prove anything since it didn’t reveal the stamps inside.
So BuzzFeed News asked to see the inside pages. He said yes. We have pictures.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:07 AM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
So BuzzFeed News asked to see the inside pages. He said yes. We have pictures.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:07 AM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
There is good reason to believe a Virginia Grand Jury is now hearing evidence in The Trump/Russia Case
Regarding impeachment, let us remember that Congress is not a court of law and there is no definitive standard of proof required for impeachment and conviction. There doesn't even have to be a statutory crime committed. Samuel Chase was impeached for "political bias and arbitrary rulings, promoting a partisan political agenda on the bench". So even if Trump can't be prosecuted beyond a reasonable doubt, that's no excuse for not impeaching him when presented with strong evidence.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:07 AM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
Regarding impeachment, let us remember that Congress is not a court of law and there is no definitive standard of proof required for impeachment and conviction. There doesn't even have to be a statutory crime committed. Samuel Chase was impeached for "political bias and arbitrary rulings, promoting a partisan political agenda on the bench". So even if Trump can't be prosecuted beyond a reasonable doubt, that's no excuse for not impeaching him when presented with strong evidence.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:07 AM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
Politico: 'The White House just couldn't let this go'
"The inside story of how Trump and the Republicans got Obamacare repeal through the House. (Hint: It wasn't pretty.)"
"The inside story of how Trump and the Republicans got Obamacare repeal through the House. (Hint: It wasn't pretty.)"
Leadership had to strike a delicate balance between conservatives who helped sink an earlier draft of the bill they dubbed “Obamacare lite” and moderates who could lose their seats — and possibly the House majority — if they backed the legislation.Not when Preibus' job was on the line.
“They kept saying, ‘You need to vote! You need to call the vote!’ But we were trying to give this space and time to develop as opposed to a pressure cooker,” said one House Republican aide. “We needed to let this play out a little bit. But the White House just couldn’t let this go.”
The effect of not passing it hit people like a ton of bricks,” said one White House official familiar with Priebus’ plight. “We’re not going to be defeated — [it’s] not a sustainable position for us to be in, not a credible position for us to be in. We knew it was a bad position.”posted by ZeusHumms at 10:09 AM on May 5, 2017 [8 favorites]
The White House pressure was not helpful, GOP insiders said. Every time the White House whispered to reporters that a vote was imminent, Republican leaders would look incompetent for failing to meet the latest deadline.
It's back to the old "If you don't have insurance, just go to the emergency room" policy of pre-Obamacare. Of course this is a poor policy because it means that low income people don't get health care until it becomes an emergency.
Also, an ever-increasing number of emergency rooms are affiliated with the Catholic church, so you can't get comprehensive reproductive healthcare like a life-saving abortion for an ectopic pregnancy at said emergency rooms.
And if your idea of health care is to just to send people to the ER when they have a problem, then basically you're condemning pretty much all cancer patients to early death. Because to treat and defeat cancer effectively, you need to catch it early, long before major illness is felt by the patient.
Of course, the "free market" insurance proponents probably wouldn't be too broken up about not having to pay for cancer treatments that raise everyone's premiums, so that's kind of a feature, not a bug, of the "treatment-by-ER" ghouls.
tl,dr: "Don't get sick. And if you do, die quickly."
posted by darkstar at 10:10 AM on May 5, 2017 [35 favorites]
Also, an ever-increasing number of emergency rooms are affiliated with the Catholic church, so you can't get comprehensive reproductive healthcare like a life-saving abortion for an ectopic pregnancy at said emergency rooms.
And if your idea of health care is to just to send people to the ER when they have a problem, then basically you're condemning pretty much all cancer patients to early death. Because to treat and defeat cancer effectively, you need to catch it early, long before major illness is felt by the patient.
Of course, the "free market" insurance proponents probably wouldn't be too broken up about not having to pay for cancer treatments that raise everyone's premiums, so that's kind of a feature, not a bug, of the "treatment-by-ER" ghouls.
tl,dr: "Don't get sick. And if you do, die quickly."
posted by darkstar at 10:10 AM on May 5, 2017 [35 favorites]
The TV thing is SOP for federal buildings, or at least since 2002. Under Dubya it was Fox News, then under the Obama administration it was MSNBC. They'd already switched it back to FNC as early as March in the HHS buildings I've worked at.
Ugh, what is it with our society and televisions in common areas? I don't care if it's showing FNC, MSNBC, or groddamned cartoons. I hate them all (though there's the frosting of specific content loathing with cable news and sprinkles of rage for the fabrications of FNC) and don't get why places keep buying them in the era of smartphones. People can stare at their own little portable screens now, stop inflicting this crap on the rest of us.
And there's none of this is this a thing I would need a tv to understand? crap here for me; I love me some tv, I think we're in a golden age of television right now. I just want to decide for myself when I watch it and the flickering images are hard to avoid looking at even if you would far rather have a conversation with someone or read a magazine.
posted by phearlez at 10:11 AM on May 5, 2017 [30 favorites]
Ugh, what is it with our society and televisions in common areas? I don't care if it's showing FNC, MSNBC, or groddamned cartoons. I hate them all (though there's the frosting of specific content loathing with cable news and sprinkles of rage for the fabrications of FNC) and don't get why places keep buying them in the era of smartphones. People can stare at their own little portable screens now, stop inflicting this crap on the rest of us.
And there's none of this is this a thing I would need a tv to understand? crap here for me; I love me some tv, I think we're in a golden age of television right now. I just want to decide for myself when I watch it and the flickering images are hard to avoid looking at even if you would far rather have a conversation with someone or read a magazine.
posted by phearlez at 10:11 AM on May 5, 2017 [30 favorites]
When did he lose your confidence?
Pick a date over the last 3 years, but when he started posting unhinged rants about the electoral college stopping Trump seems as good as any.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:13 AM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
Pick a date over the last 3 years, but when he started posting unhinged rants about the electoral college stopping Trump seems as good as any.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:13 AM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
Room 641-A: I didn't check but I assume it's made from actual peasants.
Stolen and tweeted!
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:13 AM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
Stolen and tweeted!
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:13 AM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
Anytime Trump wins anything I want to barf.
There is no god, is there. Shit. Oh wait,
Ugh, what is it with our society and televisions in common areas?
NOW I remember!
posted by petebest at 10:15 AM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
There is no god, is there. Shit. Oh wait,
Ugh, what is it with our society and televisions in common areas?
NOW I remember!
posted by petebest at 10:15 AM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
And if your idea of health care is to just to send people to the ER when they have a problem, then basically you're condemning pretty much all cancer patients to early death. Because to treat and defeat cancer effectively, you need to catch it early, long before major illness is felt by the patient.
Repeating this for emphasis. A friend of mine with a long history of being uninsured and underinsured went to the doctor last Friday because of abdominal pain. He died on Monday, of cirrhosis complicated by cancer in at least the liver. He was one of the people that the ACA was most intended to help, but it came too late. Every provision of the AHCA would have destroyed his ability to get and keep insurance. Every single one.
I sent my piece-of-shit Representative an email telling him my friend's story in more detail, and I'm having postcards made up with his picture. I'm sure Dave Trott (ptui) will never see them, but maybe his staff will remember who and what they're working for.
posted by Etrigan at 10:15 AM on May 5, 2017 [62 favorites]
Repeating this for emphasis. A friend of mine with a long history of being uninsured and underinsured went to the doctor last Friday because of abdominal pain. He died on Monday, of cirrhosis complicated by cancer in at least the liver. He was one of the people that the ACA was most intended to help, but it came too late. Every provision of the AHCA would have destroyed his ability to get and keep insurance. Every single one.
I sent my piece-of-shit Representative an email telling him my friend's story in more detail, and I'm having postcards made up with his picture. I'm sure Dave Trott (ptui) will never see them, but maybe his staff will remember who and what they're working for.
posted by Etrigan at 10:15 AM on May 5, 2017 [62 favorites]
Ugh, what is it with our society and televisions in common areas?
Keeps you from hearing the moans of the dying in the streets outside.
posted by Etrigan at 10:17 AM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
Keeps you from hearing the moans of the dying in the streets outside.
posted by Etrigan at 10:17 AM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
To add to what mellisasaurus said, here in texas, Baylor has been on a huge buying spree, they've bought all the physical therapy offices in dfw they can get, there are now only two corporations that own every pt practice, even if they aren't branded Baylor. They've bought a ton of emergency clinics and freestanding emergency rooms. Baylor is as Baptist as Baptist can be. No emergency care for you, if you have a uterine emergency and also are pregnant. In Dallas, you better hope you can get to the only public hospital, which is slammed all the time. Fort worth is also controlled by religious hospitals. Between downtown Dallas and downtown Austin, there are zero nonreligious hospitals. That's a 200+ mile stretch that includes counties of millions of people.
Our health system is so fucked. As a person with lupus, if this law passes the Senate, I will die. I'm over 50, with a preexisting condition. I already pay over 12k a year for insurance with a 6k deductible. If my insurance goes up to the estimated $25-50k premium, I just won't have insurance. I will suggest to my husband of 20+ years that we get divorced, just so he and my son can get coverage.
The Republicans don't care if I die. They don't care if any of us die. They would dance on our disease ridden corpses if it meant their masters could masturbate into a slightly larger pile of cash.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 10:21 AM on May 5, 2017 [83 favorites]
Our health system is so fucked. As a person with lupus, if this law passes the Senate, I will die. I'm over 50, with a preexisting condition. I already pay over 12k a year for insurance with a 6k deductible. If my insurance goes up to the estimated $25-50k premium, I just won't have insurance. I will suggest to my husband of 20+ years that we get divorced, just so he and my son can get coverage.
The Republicans don't care if I die. They don't care if any of us die. They would dance on our disease ridden corpses if it meant their masters could masturbate into a slightly larger pile of cash.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 10:21 AM on May 5, 2017 [83 favorites]
OnceUponATime: "And because I want to win, I want to turn some Republican voters into former Republican voters. (Probably not my mom though. She's a hopeless case.) "
Is there a reason that you believe most Republicans aren't like your mom? For me, it's infinitely more believable that your mom and everyone else still carrying that flag won't be happy until they're eating ash out of the pleasure of being able to deny it to brown people. Maybe you pick off 5% of them. Is that worth giving up trans rights? You tell me.
posted by TypographicalError at 10:27 AM on May 5, 2017 [11 favorites]
Is there a reason that you believe most Republicans aren't like your mom? For me, it's infinitely more believable that your mom and everyone else still carrying that flag won't be happy until they're eating ash out of the pleasure of being able to deny it to brown people. Maybe you pick off 5% of them. Is that worth giving up trans rights? You tell me.
posted by TypographicalError at 10:27 AM on May 5, 2017 [11 favorites]
The people who live in the midwest and mountain west? Their votes count more than those of people who live on the coasts. Literally. The electoral college vote to population ratio is 3.5 times higher for Wyoming than California.
Sure. Only the problem is that due to total population number the mountain west states have very few actual electoral votes - 3 for Montana, for example.
The 270towin interactive electoral college map is still up and working, and you can flip states to your heart's content. And if Clinton had taken Utah, Montana, Wyoming, both Dakotas, Nebraska, Kansas, and Iowa while losing Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin, she still would've lost 268-271.
Which is to say this "votes count more" idea only goes so far, and while I'm all for local/state Dems doing what they need to do to get elected, on a national level pandering to the white vote in the mountain states isn't useful. The sad reality of the electoral college is that states with high numbers of electoral votes are de facto more important than the other states, and what works in Montana is not guaranteed to work in other states.
posted by soundguy99 at 10:29 AM on May 5, 2017 [6 favorites]
Sure. Only the problem is that due to total population number the mountain west states have very few actual electoral votes - 3 for Montana, for example.
The 270towin interactive electoral college map is still up and working, and you can flip states to your heart's content. And if Clinton had taken Utah, Montana, Wyoming, both Dakotas, Nebraska, Kansas, and Iowa while losing Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin, she still would've lost 268-271.
Which is to say this "votes count more" idea only goes so far, and while I'm all for local/state Dems doing what they need to do to get elected, on a national level pandering to the white vote in the mountain states isn't useful. The sad reality of the electoral college is that states with high numbers of electoral votes are de facto more important than the other states, and what works in Montana is not guaranteed to work in other states.
posted by soundguy99 at 10:29 AM on May 5, 2017 [6 favorites]
The role of Sean Spicer in today's briefing will be played by Sarah Sanders. Streaming.
A short and sweet rundown from Phil Bump: This is not the health-care bill that Trump promised. This only covers the promises Trump made to the Post in January; he made plenty of others too. And, as I noted upthread, the only healthcare pledge on Bannon's tracking whiteboard is "repeal and replace Obamacare," nothing else matters to them if they can say they did that. The promise not to cut Medicaid, for example, is gone.
posted by zachlipton at 10:30 AM on May 5, 2017 [6 favorites]
A short and sweet rundown from Phil Bump: This is not the health-care bill that Trump promised. This only covers the promises Trump made to the Post in January; he made plenty of others too. And, as I noted upthread, the only healthcare pledge on Bannon's tracking whiteboard is "repeal and replace Obamacare," nothing else matters to them if they can say they did that. The promise not to cut Medicaid, for example, is gone.
posted by zachlipton at 10:30 AM on May 5, 2017 [6 favorites]
Ugh, what is it with our society and televisions in common areas?
Sing it. If they make our kitchen/break-room tv only show Fox, it's time to reinstate the guerrilla war by which the tv remote "goes missing" and "stops working". This was a common thing several years ago, when some of the guys on the other side of my floor would watch Fox News all day long.
posted by suelac at 10:33 AM on May 5, 2017 [8 favorites]
Sing it. If they make our kitchen/break-room tv only show Fox, it's time to reinstate the guerrilla war by which the tv remote "goes missing" and "stops working". This was a common thing several years ago, when some of the guys on the other side of my floor would watch Fox News all day long.
posted by suelac at 10:33 AM on May 5, 2017 [8 favorites]
A postmortem by the polling industry came out yesterday, suggesting that the Comey letter probably wasn't determinative:
1. Clinton's support had already begun slipping in the days before the letter came out.
2. Her support had recovered by the time of the election.
posted by crazy with stars at 10:34 AM on May 5, 2017 [6 favorites]
The Comey letter probably didn't tip the election to Trump.The 2 big takeaways:
In its effort to explore reasons for the large percentage of late-deciding voters who chose Trump, the report examines a central Clinton claim: that FBI Director James Comey’s letter to Congress on Oct. 28 of last year, stating that the bureau had discovered additional evidence related to Clinton’s use of a private email server while serving as secretary of state, might have tipped the race.
The report does not find evidence the Comey letter was determinative.
“The evidence for a meaningful effect on the election from the FBI letter is mixed at best,” the report states, citing polls that showed Clinton’s support beginning to drop in the days leading up to the letter. “October 28th falls at roughly the midpoint (not the start) of the slide in Clinton’s support.”
In fact, while the Comey letter “had an immediate, negative impact for Clinton on the order of 2 percentage points,” the report finds that Clinton’s support recovered “in the days just prior to the election.”
1. Clinton's support had already begun slipping in the days before the letter came out.
2. Her support had recovered by the time of the election.
posted by crazy with stars at 10:34 AM on May 5, 2017 [6 favorites]
Trump’s Threats on Obamacare Funds May Drive Out Poor, Insurers
You just know he's going to cut off the CSR subsidies soon enough. They're treating the premiums for millions of people's health insurance as a month-to-month decision and a bargaining chip, and insurers are going to bail.
posted by zachlipton at 10:36 AM on May 5, 2017 [11 favorites]
You just know he's going to cut off the CSR subsidies soon enough. They're treating the premiums for millions of people's health insurance as a month-to-month decision and a bargaining chip, and insurers are going to bail.
posted by zachlipton at 10:36 AM on May 5, 2017 [11 favorites]
That would be the same Sarah Sanders who when asked why Republicans didn't wait for a CBO score before voting on the AHCA, said it's impossible to score!
posted by JackFlash at 10:37 AM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by JackFlash at 10:37 AM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
And if your idea of health care is to just to send people to the ER when they have a problem, then basically you're condemning pretty much all cancer patients to early death. Because to treat and defeat cancer effectively, you need to catch it early, long before major illness is felt by the patient.
Thirding for emphasis.
This is exactly how my father died. He suffered from back pain for months until it became incapacitating. He was self employed, running a business with my mother that kept the family fairly comfortable but didn't have insurance. This was back in the 1990's.
He went to the ER and the doctor there told him it was sciatica and sent him on his way.
A few months later he was back in the ER, suffered a massive stroke and two weeks on a respirator before a nurse risked his job and whispered to us that we could demand he be transferred to a hospice that would take him off the respirator and let him die the rest of the way.
After his death an autopsy showed that he'd had cancer in his spine, the tumor was the cause of the pain. Left untreated it metastasized and killed him.
I am convinced that the doctor who saw him in the ER knew it was at least a possibility, but knowing that he didn't have insurance he just didn't bother doing anything but pushing my father out of the ER as quickly as possible and with as little expenditure of money as possible.
In the USA if you have a long term health problem, the ER will kill you rather than treat you for free.
posted by sotonohito at 10:42 AM on May 5, 2017 [72 favorites]
Thirding for emphasis.
This is exactly how my father died. He suffered from back pain for months until it became incapacitating. He was self employed, running a business with my mother that kept the family fairly comfortable but didn't have insurance. This was back in the 1990's.
He went to the ER and the doctor there told him it was sciatica and sent him on his way.
A few months later he was back in the ER, suffered a massive stroke and two weeks on a respirator before a nurse risked his job and whispered to us that we could demand he be transferred to a hospice that would take him off the respirator and let him die the rest of the way.
After his death an autopsy showed that he'd had cancer in his spine, the tumor was the cause of the pain. Left untreated it metastasized and killed him.
I am convinced that the doctor who saw him in the ER knew it was at least a possibility, but knowing that he didn't have insurance he just didn't bother doing anything but pushing my father out of the ER as quickly as possible and with as little expenditure of money as possible.
In the USA if you have a long term health problem, the ER will kill you rather than treat you for free.
posted by sotonohito at 10:42 AM on May 5, 2017 [72 favorites]
The people who live in the midwest and mountain west? Their votes count more than those of people who live on the coasts. Literally. The electoral college vote to population ratio is 3.5 times higher for Wyoming than California.
Sure. Only the problem is that due to total population number the mountain west states have very few actual electoral votes - 3 for Montana, for example.
The point is that we need to increase the total number of electoral votes (and Representatives, while we're at it) to properly reflect population. I don't think Trump would have won if the EC had been correctly apportioned.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:42 AM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
Sure. Only the problem is that due to total population number the mountain west states have very few actual electoral votes - 3 for Montana, for example.
The point is that we need to increase the total number of electoral votes (and Representatives, while we're at it) to properly reflect population. I don't think Trump would have won if the EC had been correctly apportioned.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:42 AM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm all for supporting our reserve military, but can someone explain to me why the Joint Chiefs' office needs reserve public affairs staff like Sean Spicer? What kind of drill does one do as a reserve public affairs Commander?
posted by zachlipton at 10:43 AM on May 5, 2017
posted by zachlipton at 10:43 AM on May 5, 2017
To recap:
- Democrats should nominate someone from Montana
- Hillary didn't go to Wisconsin (or Montana)
- Please think of the Trump voter's feelings
Yep, that should do it.
If you're saying that these ideas are absurd or untenable, I'm inclined to agree with you on the third one. But why are the first two absurd? To me they sound like echoes of the 50-state strategy, which I think is a lot better than the DNC's apparent habit of throwing up its hands and concluding that congressional, state, and local races across large swathes of the country are simply unwinnable/unworthy of attention.
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 10:43 AM on May 5, 2017 [8 favorites]
- Democrats should nominate someone from Montana
- Hillary didn't go to Wisconsin (or Montana)
- Please think of the Trump voter's feelings
Yep, that should do it.
If you're saying that these ideas are absurd or untenable, I'm inclined to agree with you on the third one. But why are the first two absurd? To me they sound like echoes of the 50-state strategy, which I think is a lot better than the DNC's apparent habit of throwing up its hands and concluding that congressional, state, and local races across large swathes of the country are simply unwinnable/unworthy of attention.
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 10:43 AM on May 5, 2017 [8 favorites]
I'm all for supporting our reserve military, but can someone explain to me why the Joint Chiefs' office needs reserve public affairs staff like Sean Spicer? What kind of drill does one do as a reserve public affairs Commander?
Most of his reserve time is probably spent on a special project that's really just makework for a relatively high-ranking (and well-connected) reservist. He might have a couple of lower-ranking assistants who do the real work. The rest of his time is spent doing mandatory training (firearms range, equal-opportunity slide deck, physical fitness test) and military education courses for his next rank.
posted by Etrigan at 10:46 AM on May 5, 2017
Most of his reserve time is probably spent on a special project that's really just makework for a relatively high-ranking (and well-connected) reservist. He might have a couple of lower-ranking assistants who do the real work. The rest of his time is spent doing mandatory training (firearms range, equal-opportunity slide deck, physical fitness test) and military education courses for his next rank.
posted by Etrigan at 10:46 AM on May 5, 2017
Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam
The second point is sarcasm. Clinton campaigned in Wisconsin.
As for nominating someone from Montana, I'm not opposed, but the fact is that there are very few people in Montana, so the odds of someone from there being qualified, skilled, charismatic, driven, and wanting the job are low. Assuming even distribution of good candidates, sheer probability dictates that most presidential candidates will come from more densely populated areas. Same reason the overwhelming majority of lottery winners are found in large cities, it isn't that the lottery is biased against rural areas it's just that more people exist in the cities.
posted by sotonohito at 10:48 AM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
The second point is sarcasm. Clinton campaigned in Wisconsin.
As for nominating someone from Montana, I'm not opposed, but the fact is that there are very few people in Montana, so the odds of someone from there being qualified, skilled, charismatic, driven, and wanting the job are low. Assuming even distribution of good candidates, sheer probability dictates that most presidential candidates will come from more densely populated areas. Same reason the overwhelming majority of lottery winners are found in large cities, it isn't that the lottery is biased against rural areas it's just that more people exist in the cities.
posted by sotonohito at 10:48 AM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
The people who live in the midwest and mountain west? Their votes count more than those of people who live on the coasts. Literally. The electoral college vote to population ratio is 3.5 times higher for Wyoming than California. That means that in a presidential election, the votes of people from Wyoming count 3.5 times more than the votes of people from california. It's just as bad in terms of House representation and even worse for the Senate. Those are valuable votes.
This is a great point and something we should all be keeping in mind, but it does not support your contention that converting Republicans is a more viable strategy than mobilizing non-voters and improving turnout, in Wyoming or anywhere else. Turnout in Wyoming for the 2016 general was 60%, which is more or less in line with California and New York.
It's true that converting any given Republican is twice as valuable as mobilizing a non-voter in the same place, but I don't see any way of working to convert them specifically without compromising the values that are the whole point; if we articulate and promote a convincing progressive plan that looks good enough to non-voters to get them to the polls, it will naturally pick off some dissatisfied Republicans too. If we compromise on policy in hopes of specifically bringing over more Republicans, we just end up looking like mealy-mouthed Republican Lite, and that strategy has been tested quite enough. It doesn't work.
posted by contraption at 10:49 AM on May 5, 2017 [16 favorites]
This is a great point and something we should all be keeping in mind, but it does not support your contention that converting Republicans is a more viable strategy than mobilizing non-voters and improving turnout, in Wyoming or anywhere else. Turnout in Wyoming for the 2016 general was 60%, which is more or less in line with California and New York.
It's true that converting any given Republican is twice as valuable as mobilizing a non-voter in the same place, but I don't see any way of working to convert them specifically without compromising the values that are the whole point; if we articulate and promote a convincing progressive plan that looks good enough to non-voters to get them to the polls, it will naturally pick off some dissatisfied Republicans too. If we compromise on policy in hopes of specifically bringing over more Republicans, we just end up looking like mealy-mouthed Republican Lite, and that strategy has been tested quite enough. It doesn't work.
posted by contraption at 10:49 AM on May 5, 2017 [16 favorites]
In the USA if you have a long term health problem, the ER will kill you rather than treat you for free.
I have spent most of my life poor so I have experienced the health care poor people get in this country over nearly forty years. Based on that experience I start out hating any doctor I have to deal with professionally because I expect them to prefer that I just die instead of waste their time treating me.
Our health care system is trash if you're not upper middle class.
posted by winna at 10:50 AM on May 5, 2017 [13 favorites]
I have spent most of my life poor so I have experienced the health care poor people get in this country over nearly forty years. Based on that experience I start out hating any doctor I have to deal with professionally because I expect them to prefer that I just die instead of waste their time treating me.
Our health care system is trash if you're not upper middle class.
posted by winna at 10:50 AM on May 5, 2017 [13 favorites]
The point is that we need to increase the total number of electoral votes (and Representatives, while we're at it) to properly reflect population.
I don't see that as the point of either Bullock's essay or OnceUponATime's comments on same. Both are suggesting if not outright claiming that converting Republicans is a worthy and practical goal for future Democratic wins. Which is what I'm referring to - revamping the electoral college is an entirely different conversation.
posted by soundguy99 at 10:50 AM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
I don't see that as the point of either Bullock's essay or OnceUponATime's comments on same. Both are suggesting if not outright claiming that converting Republicans is a worthy and practical goal for future Democratic wins. Which is what I'm referring to - revamping the electoral college is an entirely different conversation.
posted by soundguy99 at 10:50 AM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
The TV thing is SOP for federal buildings, or at least since 2002. Under Dubya it was Fox News, then under the Obama administration it was MSNBC. They'd already switched it back to FNC as early as March in the HHS buildings I've worked at.
See, now I'm playing the fun mental game of wondering which channel, if I were President, I would order all federal TVs set. After careful consideration, I have chosen an endless loop of Mystery Science Theater 3000.
posted by Servo5678 at 10:51 AM on May 5, 2017 [19 favorites]
See, now I'm playing the fun mental game of wondering which channel, if I were President, I would order all federal TVs set. After careful consideration, I have chosen an endless loop of Mystery Science Theater 3000.
posted by Servo5678 at 10:51 AM on May 5, 2017 [19 favorites]
Is there a reason that you believe most Republicans aren't like your mom?
I mean, there are Republicans and there are "Republicans." My mom is not a low information voter or just a person who votes Republican out of habit or tribal identity. She votes Republican because she is very, deeply committed to a specific, religious ideology. She is basically a female Neil Gorsuch. (She would take that as a compliment.)
But there are a lot of voters out there who just vote Republican because their parents did and their neighbors do, because Democrats strike them as foreigners (with their lattes and their Volvos and whatever) and Republicans strike them as people like themselves (drip coffee in a stryfoam cup from the coffee maker in the church basement, a beat up pick-up truck with a gun rack for their hunting rifles).
The "cultural conservatives" are reachable, I think. If we bother trying to reach them. The real ideologues are not.
And assuming that no Republicans can be turned into former Republicans leads to this:
throwing up its hands and concluding that congressional, state, and local races across large swathes of the country are simply unwinnable/unworthy of attention.
We can't do that anymore. Winning California by bigger and bigger margins doesn't help us at all. We need to win in places we haven't won before.
Turnout in Wyoming for the 2016 general was 60%, which is more or less in line with California and New York.
Fine, but I bet a lot of those 40% who didn't vote have voted at least occasionally before. And I bet that when they did, they mostly voted Republican.
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:53 AM on May 5, 2017 [9 favorites]
I mean, there are Republicans and there are "Republicans." My mom is not a low information voter or just a person who votes Republican out of habit or tribal identity. She votes Republican because she is very, deeply committed to a specific, religious ideology. She is basically a female Neil Gorsuch. (She would take that as a compliment.)
But there are a lot of voters out there who just vote Republican because their parents did and their neighbors do, because Democrats strike them as foreigners (with their lattes and their Volvos and whatever) and Republicans strike them as people like themselves (drip coffee in a stryfoam cup from the coffee maker in the church basement, a beat up pick-up truck with a gun rack for their hunting rifles).
The "cultural conservatives" are reachable, I think. If we bother trying to reach them. The real ideologues are not.
And assuming that no Republicans can be turned into former Republicans leads to this:
throwing up its hands and concluding that congressional, state, and local races across large swathes of the country are simply unwinnable/unworthy of attention.
We can't do that anymore. Winning California by bigger and bigger margins doesn't help us at all. We need to win in places we haven't won before.
Turnout in Wyoming for the 2016 general was 60%, which is more or less in line with California and New York.
Fine, but I bet a lot of those 40% who didn't vote have voted at least occasionally before. And I bet that when they did, they mostly voted Republican.
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:53 AM on May 5, 2017 [9 favorites]
It's pretty hilarious watching Sanders try to explain that Trump was just being nice and complementary when he said Australia has a better healthcare system than us, but of course he didn't really mean it. Now she's saying that the system that works in Australia might not be right for the United States, because I guess Australians are a different species or something? (video)
posted by zachlipton at 10:54 AM on May 5, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 10:54 AM on May 5, 2017 [6 favorites]
See, now I'm playing the fun mental game of wondering which channel, if I were President, I would order all federal TVs set. After careful consideration, I have chosen an endless loop of Mystery Science Theater 3000.
Hmm -- posted by Servo5678? Yeah, another spineless* politician looking to increase their own screen time.
(*Because I'm pretty sure Servo doesn't have a spine)
posted by filthy light thief at 10:58 AM on May 5, 2017 [7 favorites]
Hmm -- posted by Servo5678? Yeah, another spineless* politician looking to increase their own screen time.
(*Because I'm pretty sure Servo doesn't have a spine)
posted by filthy light thief at 10:58 AM on May 5, 2017 [7 favorites]
Now she's saying that the system that works in Australia might not be right for the United States, because I guess Australians are a different species or something?
When in doubt, you can always fall back on the excuse of American Exceptionalism; and not just American, but basically [any subset of America] Exceptionalism.
Sorry, Mississippi, you can't have better health outcomes because there are very particular needs of those who live in Mississippi that are so very different from those in Massachusetts that what Massachusetts does just cannot be replicated here. Nothing to be done about it, of course, it's just the way it is, yessirree.
posted by tocts at 10:59 AM on May 5, 2017 [24 favorites]
When in doubt, you can always fall back on the excuse of American Exceptionalism; and not just American, but basically [any subset of America] Exceptionalism.
Sorry, Mississippi, you can't have better health outcomes because there are very particular needs of those who live in Mississippi that are so very different from those in Massachusetts that what Massachusetts does just cannot be replicated here. Nothing to be done about it, of course, it's just the way it is, yessirree.
posted by tocts at 10:59 AM on May 5, 2017 [24 favorites]
Hmm -- posted by Servo5678? Yeah, another spineless* politician looking to increase their own screen time.
No puppet! No puppet! You're the- oh, wait; Tom Servo is a puppet.
posted by Servo5678 at 11:01 AM on May 5, 2017 [18 favorites]
No puppet! No puppet! You're the- oh, wait; Tom Servo is a puppet.
posted by Servo5678 at 11:01 AM on May 5, 2017 [18 favorites]
SecretAgentSockpuppet: I will suggest to my husband of 20+ years that we get divorced, just so he and my son can get coverage.
Yay Republicans, the party of family values!
(I'm very, very sorry that you're looking at this fucked up situation; I wish I could say that I'd never heard of this before, but alas, it was all too common before the ACA, along with medical bankruptcies.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:03 AM on May 5, 2017 [10 favorites]
Yay Republicans, the party of family values!
(I'm very, very sorry that you're looking at this fucked up situation; I wish I could say that I'd never heard of this before, but alas, it was all too common before the ACA, along with medical bankruptcies.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:03 AM on May 5, 2017 [10 favorites]
Etrigan, I'm so sorry about your friend.
posted by GrammarMoses at 11:06 AM on May 5, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by GrammarMoses at 11:06 AM on May 5, 2017 [10 favorites]
C-Span is delightful!
posted by winna at 11:06 AM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by winna at 11:06 AM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
My vote would be C-Span -- no ads, non-partisan, and befitting of the governmental character of federal buildings. But also selfishly because I enjoy C-Span.
C-SPAN is nominally non-partisan but as we saw with the Dem sit-in they're subject to partisan pressure. The majority party in the House decides when the cameras are on and, as I recall, where they may be pointed.
Of course as a no-tv partisan I'm inclined to find fault with putting anything on communal tvs so I'm sure that informs my skepticism here.
posted by phearlez at 11:09 AM on May 5, 2017
C-SPAN is nominally non-partisan but as we saw with the Dem sit-in they're subject to partisan pressure. The majority party in the House decides when the cameras are on and, as I recall, where they may be pointed.
Of course as a no-tv partisan I'm inclined to find fault with putting anything on communal tvs so I'm sure that informs my skepticism here.
posted by phearlez at 11:09 AM on May 5, 2017
C-SPAN took Periscope feeds live from the floor while the official House cameras were turned off. They deserve a lot of credit for that.
I'm still not a fan of TVs all over the place though.
posted by zachlipton at 11:11 AM on May 5, 2017 [13 favorites]
I'm still not a fan of TVs all over the place though.
posted by zachlipton at 11:11 AM on May 5, 2017 [13 favorites]
As for nominating someone from Montana, I'm not opposed, but the fact is that there are very few people in Montana, so the odds of someone from there being qualified, skilled, charismatic, driven, and wanting the job are low.
While that is likely true, looking at Democrats from the West is a good idea because a lot of them are outdoorsmen (and women) which gives them a certain amount of credibility with people who like their guns, but aren't fanatics about them. There's also a sort of laissez-faire attitude to social issues like gay marriage because those voters often fail into the "freedom to do your own thing" camp.
That said, there are still a lot of conservatives and religious types, but a Westerner might be able to get some compromises on gun control in a Nixon-goes-to-China way.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 11:13 AM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
While that is likely true, looking at Democrats from the West is a good idea because a lot of them are outdoorsmen (and women) which gives them a certain amount of credibility with people who like their guns, but aren't fanatics about them. There's also a sort of laissez-faire attitude to social issues like gay marriage because those voters often fail into the "freedom to do your own thing" camp.
That said, there are still a lot of conservatives and religious types, but a Westerner might be able to get some compromises on gun control in a Nixon-goes-to-China way.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 11:13 AM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
The absolute best part of my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 is the built-in universal remote. It makes short work of waiting room and restaurant TVs.
posted by jferg at 11:14 AM on May 5, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by jferg at 11:14 AM on May 5, 2017 [23 favorites]
While that is likely true, looking at Democrats from the West is a good idea because a lot of them are outdoorsmen (and women) which gives them a certain amount of credibility with people who like their guns, but aren't fanatics about them.
LikeSenator Jason Kander.
posted by Etrigan at 11:17 AM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
Like
posted by Etrigan at 11:17 AM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
looking at Democrats from the West is a good idea
*Offer not valid in California
posted by melissasaurus at 11:17 AM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
*Offer not valid in California
posted by melissasaurus at 11:17 AM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
My impression is that the resignation of Richard Nixon was a dark time for the country, and a "loss of innocence" and of faith in government.
If Trump were to resign, I think it would be the biggest party since World War II.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:21 AM on May 5, 2017 [18 favorites]
If Trump were to resign, I think it would be the biggest party since World War II.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:21 AM on May 5, 2017 [18 favorites]
Reformed Virginian Baptist Church of 1803 or New Reformed West Virginian Baptist Church of 1812?
That reminds me that evangelicals should be most opposed to the "founded as a Christian nation" bullshit because they were victimized by official state religions in colonial times. Congregationalist churches were the official established churches of most colonies in New England, and the state church in most Southern colonies was the Church of England.
Part of your taxes went towards the official state church regardless of you being a congregant or not. In Virginia you were required by law to attend Anglican church services, and Baptist ministers could be jailed for preaching.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:22 AM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
> but a Westerner might be able to get some compromises on gun control in a Nixon-goes-to-China way.
Yeah, we tried this, albeit not with a gun-lovin' Democrat from the West, but one from Appalachia. I don't see any reason to believe that a Heitkamp/Tester-like figure would have had any more success than Manchin did, and he even had the backing of an establishment/Tea Party Republican in Pat Toomey. Still, the most incremental possible legislation to address background checks failed. That's not to say it can't be successful, but that there are probably much more likely scenarios that support the case for trying harder to compete in these states than thinking they'll move the ball forward on gun control. They probably won't.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:22 AM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yeah, we tried this, albeit not with a gun-lovin' Democrat from the West, but one from Appalachia. I don't see any reason to believe that a Heitkamp/Tester-like figure would have had any more success than Manchin did, and he even had the backing of an establishment/Tea Party Republican in Pat Toomey. Still, the most incremental possible legislation to address background checks failed. That's not to say it can't be successful, but that there are probably much more likely scenarios that support the case for trying harder to compete in these states than thinking they'll move the ball forward on gun control. They probably won't.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:22 AM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
C-SPAN took Periscope feeds live from the floor while the official House cameras were turned off. They deserve a lot of credit for that.
Absolutely; I believe the people doing the work are committed to an effort at non-partisanship. But it's important to know where any media we consume are coming from, and C-SPAN has pressures and limits like anywhere else. That limit on what they can show - absent other sources if they must - came to mind because I think that despite their best efforts they reinforce the fiction that the House is a deliberative body in the sense that folks are in there listening to each other, rather than usually speechifying to a mostly empty room. They air committee meetings that can give the impression that they're not just stunting or an excuse to harass a witness.
One can be non-partisan but still inaccurate, or reinforce a partisan position as a result of access and control pressures. That's not a fault of the media outlet, but it's something we as news consumers need to keep in mind.
posted by phearlez at 11:24 AM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
Absolutely; I believe the people doing the work are committed to an effort at non-partisanship. But it's important to know where any media we consume are coming from, and C-SPAN has pressures and limits like anywhere else. That limit on what they can show - absent other sources if they must - came to mind because I think that despite their best efforts they reinforce the fiction that the House is a deliberative body in the sense that folks are in there listening to each other, rather than usually speechifying to a mostly empty room. They air committee meetings that can give the impression that they're not just stunting or an excuse to harass a witness.
One can be non-partisan but still inaccurate, or reinforce a partisan position as a result of access and control pressures. That's not a fault of the media outlet, but it's something we as news consumers need to keep in mind.
posted by phearlez at 11:24 AM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
roomthreeseventeen: Trump and Pence sent out a press release claiming that the networks refusing to air their ad is "setting a chilling precedent against free speech."
The tweet is: "ok who wants to tell them what free speech means" with an embedded image of a Trump Pence MAGA 45 press release titled "All Mainstream TV Networks Block Paid Campaign Ad Setting Chilling Precedent Against Free Speech"
Subtitle: Lara Trump Statement Defending President Trump and Campaign Ad. Dated May 5 2017.
Related from Raw Story, May 2, 2017: Trump throws a fit after ‘fake news station’ CNN refuses to air ‘positive message’ in his 100-day campaign ad
So the new memo indicates that ALL the fake news stations have set a threshold for what they're willing to accept for money, good to know.
And yes, his daughter-in-law is vocal member of the trumpteteers.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:25 AM on May 5, 2017 [12 favorites]
The tweet is: "ok who wants to tell them what free speech means" with an embedded image of a Trump Pence MAGA 45 press release titled "All Mainstream TV Networks Block Paid Campaign Ad Setting Chilling Precedent Against Free Speech"
Subtitle: Lara Trump Statement Defending President Trump and Campaign Ad. Dated May 5 2017.
Related from Raw Story, May 2, 2017: Trump throws a fit after ‘fake news station’ CNN refuses to air ‘positive message’ in his 100-day campaign ad
The 30-second ad, which began airing on Monday, praises Trump for the confirmation of Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch and for proposing the “biggest tax cut plan in history.” It also blasts the media, flashing the words “FAKE NEWS” over the faces of anchors, reporters and broadcasters.YOU'RE FAKE AND I HATE YOU FOR NOT INVITING ME TO YOUR FAKE BIRTHDAY PARTY, screamed Trump, very presidentishly.
A memo from the Trump-Pence campaign announced on Tuesday that CNN had refused to air the commercial.
“FAKE NEWS STATION REFUSES TO RUN AD HIGHLIGHTING THE PRESIDENT’S FIRST 100 DAYS,” the document’s headline shouted.
So the new memo indicates that ALL the fake news stations have set a threshold for what they're willing to accept for money, good to know.
And yes, his daughter-in-law is vocal member of the trumpteteers.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:25 AM on May 5, 2017 [12 favorites]
It's a chilling president against free speech
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:27 AM on May 5, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:27 AM on May 5, 2017 [25 favorites]
Michael Cohen update! This Is The Inside Of Trump’s Lawyer’s Passport
Cohen was with family and friends, he said, including the musician and actor Steve Van Zandt.Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!
posted by kirkaracha at 11:29 AM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
If we compromise on policy in hopes of specifically bringing over more Republicans, we just end up looking like mealy-mouthed Republican Lite,
By the way, I don't think I am suggesting compromising on policy. (Or that the governor of Montana is.) Mostly just on rhetoric. I shared that link because the thread got a little toxic in terms of calling Republicans evil.
I actually favorited this comment because I more or less agree and because I'm mad as hell and really feeling this:
Anyway I favorited that comment, and then I came across that Montana piece on Facebook, and then I felt bad for favoriting comments which represents the exact attitude that turns potential voters away in droves in the states we need to win. Even though I agree (subject to caveats) I still thought it was worth sharing that Montana piece as a reminder of what is needed if we actually want to WIN VOTES.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:31 AM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
By the way, I don't think I am suggesting compromising on policy. (Or that the governor of Montana is.) Mostly just on rhetoric. I shared that link because the thread got a little toxic in terms of calling Republicans evil.
I actually favorited this comment because I more or less agree and because I'm mad as hell and really feeling this:
"It's the fact that they are largely racist, bigoted people lacking in empathy for anything beyond their immediate experience and family who cling to fake Christianity"(in my calmer moods I'd add the caveats that I think everyone has at least the seeds of racism and bigotry in them, and whether those seeds are allowed to blossom depends mostly on culture and environment and not the quality of one's soul... And that "fake" Christianity I take to mean something like the "prosperity gospel", which is not in line with traditional Christian teaching... and that most people lack empathy for those beyond their immediate experience, but people in cities have a broader kind of experience... So lots of caveats, but I still think it's more or less true even when I'm calm, and when I'm mad I don't have patience for caveats...)
Anyway I favorited that comment, and then I came across that Montana piece on Facebook, and then I felt bad for favoriting comments which represents the exact attitude that turns potential voters away in droves in the states we need to win. Even though I agree (subject to caveats) I still thought it was worth sharing that Montana piece as a reminder of what is needed if we actually want to WIN VOTES.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:31 AM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
"Truth-in-advertising" laws aren't an impediment to Free Speech, just free lies.
posted by CyberSlug Labs at 11:32 AM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by CyberSlug Labs at 11:32 AM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
Even though I agree (subject to caveats) I still thought it was worth sharing that Montana piece as a reminder of what is needed if we actually want to WIN VOTES.
...in one electorally tiny place with a much shorter (or at least, less dense) history than most other places.
posted by Etrigan at 11:35 AM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
...in one electorally tiny place with a much shorter (or at least, less dense) history than most other places.
posted by Etrigan at 11:35 AM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
But there are a lot of voters out there who just vote Republican because their parents did and their neighbors do, because Democrats strike them as foreigners (with their lattes and their Volvos and whatever) and Republicans strike them as people like themselves (drip coffee in a stryfoam cup from the coffee maker in the church basement, a beat up pick-up truck with a gun rack for their hunting rifles).
Here's the problem: we're presuming that these voters vote in the manner they do for less than entirely rational reasons. For whatever reason they feel condescended to; or they think coastal latte drinkers are effete; or Democrats don't drive pick-up trucks. Or whatever. We're presuming that there are a sizable number of voters who might be flipped but who have not in the past responded to policy-based entreaties. And maybe those voters do exist. But if they don't respond to Democratic policies—and if they did, then we wouldn't be talking about trying to flip them—then how does any candidate really know what they can promise in return for a vote? The right dress? The right speech? The right accessories?
Jon Chait's "Trump Isn’t a Pragmatist. He Doesn’t Understand Ideology," seems relevant here, especially this paragraph:
posted by octobersurprise at 11:35 AM on May 5, 2017 [26 favorites]
Here's the problem: we're presuming that these voters vote in the manner they do for less than entirely rational reasons. For whatever reason they feel condescended to; or they think coastal latte drinkers are effete; or Democrats don't drive pick-up trucks. Or whatever. We're presuming that there are a sizable number of voters who might be flipped but who have not in the past responded to policy-based entreaties. And maybe those voters do exist. But if they don't respond to Democratic policies—and if they did, then we wouldn't be talking about trying to flip them—then how does any candidate really know what they can promise in return for a vote? The right dress? The right speech? The right accessories?
Jon Chait's "Trump Isn’t a Pragmatist. He Doesn’t Understand Ideology," seems relevant here, especially this paragraph:
Many Americans share Trump’s lack of ideological sophistication. High-information voters tend to clump at the ends of the political spectrum. They may not have sophisticated beliefs, but their identification with one of the party coalitions is a tool they use to make sense of individual issues. Low-information voters tend to have a weak understanding of what the political parties stand for and how those positions relate to each other. These voters can be roughly categorized as “centrist” because they don’t line up neatly with one party platform or the other. But, rather than a consistently moderate outlook, they share a mishmash of extreme and frequently uninformed beliefs. Because they don’t understand the philosophical basis for disagreements, they assume the two parties ought to naturally cooperate, and tend to see partisan bickering as a failure and an indication of personal fault by politicians.So I think that before we talk about candidates reaching out to the fabled Red State voter on a national level—something that is not in itself a bad thing—we must be clearer about what those voters want in the first place. Only then can decisions be made about the allocation of resources and time and whether such a strategy produces a better yield than another.
posted by octobersurprise at 11:35 AM on May 5, 2017 [26 favorites]
Sorry, that can come off snider than I meant it to be. What I mean, OnceUponATime, is that yes, Gov. Bullock has some good ideas. But he doesn't have all of the good ideas. His approach should be studied and incorporated into a broader strategy where it makes sense. But it shouldn't be used to keep other approaches from being studied and incorporated into a broader strategy where they make sense.
And if we want to learn from the other side what it takes to energize voters, then anger is Lessons 1 through 2010.
posted by Etrigan at 11:38 AM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
And if we want to learn from the other side what it takes to energize voters, then anger is Lessons 1 through 2010.
posted by Etrigan at 11:38 AM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
> in the states we need to win
I don't think you've shown a lot of evidence for needing to win those particular states, though. I want to win there, and I think we must compete there, but Democrats have won Presidential elections and controlled chambers of Congress without much success in the Mountain West. I want all the seats, all the electoral votes, and a true 50-state strategy -- but if we don't win a particular state or two, we can make up those losses elsewhere.
The Trump electoral map is not the natural state of things, nor was the Obama map. In reality the contested states (and gettable seats in Congress) are functions of a lot of factors that change over time. I understand why Steve Bullock would seize this moment to suggest that the path toward Democratic victory runs through his state, but I don't understand why we should prioritize that vision over others, like competing harder in NC and FL where demographic trends are more favorable to the current Democratic message. Lots of electoral votes there, too.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:39 AM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
I don't think you've shown a lot of evidence for needing to win those particular states, though. I want to win there, and I think we must compete there, but Democrats have won Presidential elections and controlled chambers of Congress without much success in the Mountain West. I want all the seats, all the electoral votes, and a true 50-state strategy -- but if we don't win a particular state or two, we can make up those losses elsewhere.
The Trump electoral map is not the natural state of things, nor was the Obama map. In reality the contested states (and gettable seats in Congress) are functions of a lot of factors that change over time. I understand why Steve Bullock would seize this moment to suggest that the path toward Democratic victory runs through his state, but I don't understand why we should prioritize that vision over others, like competing harder in NC and FL where demographic trends are more favorable to the current Democratic message. Lots of electoral votes there, too.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:39 AM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
> In the USA if you have a long term health problem, the ER will kill you rather than treat you for free.
Back in March I went over to a friend's place to watch the Masters (up here in Toronto). I hadn't seen him in a few months, and when I asked him how he was he told me the news wasn't great; he'd been suffering from headaches that got bad enough that a few weeks before that he'd gone to the emergency room. After an admittedly lengthy wait he was given an MRI, which revealed the presence of a sizable tumor. He was immediately bumped up the priority list, triage-style, for several other medical procedures, none of which he had or will have to pay a dime out of pocket for. His diagnosis was and remains uncertain, but the one thing he *doesn't* have to worry about is whether or not he can afford to pay for his treatments (and he was working in a call centre, so he is not well-off). The American health care system has always seemed utterly malevolent to me, and now here come the Republicans, hell-bent on making it even worse so that rich people can get a bit (or maybe even a lot!) richer.
Our system isn't perfect, but most Canadians will have similar stories (I've got a bunch more myself!) and none of them end with "and then s/he went bankrupt," or "and then they got divorced because that would make it easier for their spouse to keep their benefits," or "and then s/he died because s/he was denied care by an insurance company."
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:39 AM on May 5, 2017 [59 favorites]
Back in March I went over to a friend's place to watch the Masters (up here in Toronto). I hadn't seen him in a few months, and when I asked him how he was he told me the news wasn't great; he'd been suffering from headaches that got bad enough that a few weeks before that he'd gone to the emergency room. After an admittedly lengthy wait he was given an MRI, which revealed the presence of a sizable tumor. He was immediately bumped up the priority list, triage-style, for several other medical procedures, none of which he had or will have to pay a dime out of pocket for. His diagnosis was and remains uncertain, but the one thing he *doesn't* have to worry about is whether or not he can afford to pay for his treatments (and he was working in a call centre, so he is not well-off). The American health care system has always seemed utterly malevolent to me, and now here come the Republicans, hell-bent on making it even worse so that rich people can get a bit (or maybe even a lot!) richer.
Our system isn't perfect, but most Canadians will have similar stories (I've got a bunch more myself!) and none of them end with "and then s/he went bankrupt," or "and then they got divorced because that would make it easier for their spouse to keep their benefits," or "and then s/he died because s/he was denied care by an insurance company."
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:39 AM on May 5, 2017 [59 favorites]
And Arizona. And Texas.
Sure, let's nominate a red state candidate next time, I like Jason Kander a lot. Maybe all we need is a white man who doesn't "condescend" by having a penis and putting a machine gun together real fast. But the Montana governor saying the Democrats lost by not listening to Montana is both as facile as reducing all of 2016 to "she didn't goto Wisconsin", and more than a little self-serving.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:43 AM on May 5, 2017 [6 favorites]
Sure, let's nominate a red state candidate next time, I like Jason Kander a lot. Maybe all we need is a white man who doesn't "condescend" by having a penis and putting a machine gun together real fast. But the Montana governor saying the Democrats lost by not listening to Montana is both as facile as reducing all of 2016 to "she didn't goto Wisconsin", and more than a little self-serving.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:43 AM on May 5, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yeah, I don't know what exactly these voters want and what they consider condescending and so on. But I don't think we're going to win their votes by implying they are all psychopaths, and that is really my main point here.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:46 AM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:46 AM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
The 270towin interactive electoral college map is still up and working, and you can flip states to your heart's content. And if Clinton had taken Utah, Montana, Wyoming, both Dakotas, Nebraska, Kansas, and Iowa while losing Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin, she still would've lost 268-271.
That first group of states represents 16 Senate seats, though.
posted by XMLicious at 11:49 AM on May 5, 2017 [9 favorites]
I have to confess that after an election season and runup to 2020 full of handwringing about the fee-fees of white racists I don't actually care about how to reach white racists. We need to motivate the people sitting out elections and fight voter suppression, not pander to strom thurmond's kinfolk.
posted by winna at 11:50 AM on May 5, 2017 [47 favorites]
posted by winna at 11:50 AM on May 5, 2017 [47 favorites]
> But I don't think we're going to win their votes by implying they are all psychopaths, and that is really my main point here.
"They're all psychopaths" seems like it goes way beyond what most people are saying about Trump voters, and certainly way beyond what chris24 said in the comment you say got you thinking along these lines. They can be bigoted, lacking empathy, etc. and not be psychopaths, and given the caveats in the original comment ("largely racist, bigoted people", "Are there decent Republicans? Sure..."), it's clear that the message wasn't that all Republicans or all Trump voters were irredeemable, psychopaths, or anything else. You seem to be distorting the original claim as the holes in your argument are exposed.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:52 AM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
"They're all psychopaths" seems like it goes way beyond what most people are saying about Trump voters, and certainly way beyond what chris24 said in the comment you say got you thinking along these lines. They can be bigoted, lacking empathy, etc. and not be psychopaths, and given the caveats in the original comment ("largely racist, bigoted people", "Are there decent Republicans? Sure..."), it's clear that the message wasn't that all Republicans or all Trump voters were irredeemable, psychopaths, or anything else. You seem to be distorting the original claim as the holes in your argument are exposed.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:52 AM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
I must have missed where all these racist bigots are sitting around reading my comments and crying because I think they're garbage fires and it shames me that I am in the same species.
"I am totally going to keep voting for the hate I have continually voted for over the years!" they howl in their mcmansions held together with duct tape and imported carcinogenic drywall. "All because that dang winna on metafilter thinks I am a waste of flesh!"
I mean if that is how things have gone down mea maxima culpa or whatever.
posted by winna at 11:57 AM on May 5, 2017 [38 favorites]
"I am totally going to keep voting for the hate I have continually voted for over the years!" they howl in their mcmansions held together with duct tape and imported carcinogenic drywall. "All because that dang winna on metafilter thinks I am a waste of flesh!"
I mean if that is how things have gone down mea maxima culpa or whatever.
posted by winna at 11:57 AM on May 5, 2017 [38 favorites]
I think it's a massive mistake to keep chasing voters from states where politicians and/or pundits say "you didn't pay enough attention to us" or trying to win over what we perceive as "moderate" Republicans. All that happens is that the goalposts keep getting moved and we as a party have gained nothing except a reputation for "flip flopping" and being too scattered to achieve big things.
We (as a party) need to build a platform we can stand on in every state across the country. Then we nominate and elect the people who whole heartedly believe in that platform-no half hearted compromises, no nit picking each person who shows an interest in running for office. I see a LOT of criticism of Nancy Pelosi and sure, there are things about her that are less than ideal, but in the end she gets. shit. done. I think Bernie has some seriously problematic viewpoints on things like women's rights, but he gets. shit. done. Let's concentrate on the people we have now and strengthen the support for them, rather than hoping we can maybe sway someone who truly believes abortion is murder or that any help from the government is condescending.
posted by hollygoheavy at 12:05 PM on May 5, 2017 [16 favorites]
We (as a party) need to build a platform we can stand on in every state across the country. Then we nominate and elect the people who whole heartedly believe in that platform-no half hearted compromises, no nit picking each person who shows an interest in running for office. I see a LOT of criticism of Nancy Pelosi and sure, there are things about her that are less than ideal, but in the end she gets. shit. done. I think Bernie has some seriously problematic viewpoints on things like women's rights, but he gets. shit. done. Let's concentrate on the people we have now and strengthen the support for them, rather than hoping we can maybe sway someone who truly believes abortion is murder or that any help from the government is condescending.
posted by hollygoheavy at 12:05 PM on May 5, 2017 [16 favorites]
As if we need more dark money conservative billionares buying what little remains of our democracy: Hacked records show Bradley Foundation taking its conservative Wisconsin model national
Those internal documents, obtained by the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel in recent months, show the conservative powerhouse is working to duplicate its success in Wisconsin under Republican Gov. Scott Walker, focusing on such swing states as North Carolina and Colorado.
...
The Bradley Foundation is paying less attention to Washington, D.C. Instead, it is methodically building a coalition of outside groups aimed at influencing officials in statehouses from Pennsylvania to Arizona.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:06 PM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
Those internal documents, obtained by the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel in recent months, show the conservative powerhouse is working to duplicate its success in Wisconsin under Republican Gov. Scott Walker, focusing on such swing states as North Carolina and Colorado.
...
The Bradley Foundation is paying less attention to Washington, D.C. Instead, it is methodically building a coalition of outside groups aimed at influencing officials in statehouses from Pennsylvania to Arizona.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:06 PM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
show the conservative powerhouse is working to duplicate its success in Wisconsin under Republican Gov. Scott Walker,
Please note, success here just means success in enacting their agenda, not in actual success for the state or its people.
posted by drezdn at 12:11 PM on May 5, 2017 [8 favorites]
Please note, success here just means success in enacting their agenda, not in actual success for the state or its people.
posted by drezdn at 12:11 PM on May 5, 2017 [8 favorites]
Republicans just memory-holed their promise on pre-existing conditions off the House GOP website.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:13 PM on May 5, 2017 [52 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:13 PM on May 5, 2017 [52 favorites]
You seem to be distorting the original claim as the holes in your argument are exposed.
I think there are some more extreme statements in the thread that I didn't favorite and don't agree with. But my claim is that even the accurate and honest versions of statements like this are going to cost us votes in places we need votes. It's not fair, but it's true.
posted by OnceUponATime at 12:13 PM on May 5, 2017
I think there are some more extreme statements in the thread that I didn't favorite and don't agree with. But my claim is that even the accurate and honest versions of statements like this are going to cost us votes in places we need votes. It's not fair, but it's true.
posted by OnceUponATime at 12:13 PM on May 5, 2017
> Cathy McMorris Rodgers, a Republican rep from Wasnington state, tells WaPo My son has a preexisting condition. He’s one of the reasons I voted for the AHCA. It's mostly a glib rehash of the standard talking points, but she refers to Maine's "invisible" high-risk pools (link appears to be a Repub propaganda site).
Rep. Who Voted To Repeal Obamacare Tries To ‘Jimmy Kimmel’s Baby’ Her Son. NOPE.
Rep. Who Voted To Repeal Obamacare Tries To ‘Jimmy Kimmel’s Baby’ Her Son. NOPE.
WELL ACTUALLY, protections for children such as Cole Rodgers and Billy Kimmel have not long existed — they have only existed since 2010, when President Obama signed them into law.posted by tonycpsu at 12:18 PM on May 5, 2017 [20 favorites]
Before then, the health care system in the US was an even bigger shitshow than it is now! Here is what would happen! [...]
My mom went bankrupt when my dad died, because of his medical bills (thanks to his previous heart attacks/surgery he was uninsurable at the time of his death; no insurance company would touch him). It affected her financial security for the rest of her life. I have heard dozens of similar stories among just the people I know. Republicans are counting on people to just lay down and accept that they're going to have to go back to that. I sure hope lots of other Americans with stories like mine don't fall for it.
Also: my dad died at 50. I was 20. Before he died, he put off going to the hospital for a whole day, probably because he knew what it would cost. It's possible he would still be here, have gotten to meet my husband and son, if he'd had healthcare from the beginning of his heart problems, instead of having gaps in care when they couldn't pay. Driving past the cemetery today where he and my mom are buried, I wondered how many other dads and moms went there early for the same reason.
posted by emjaybee at 12:27 PM on May 5, 2017 [115 favorites]
Also: my dad died at 50. I was 20. Before he died, he put off going to the hospital for a whole day, probably because he knew what it would cost. It's possible he would still be here, have gotten to meet my husband and son, if he'd had healthcare from the beginning of his heart problems, instead of having gaps in care when they couldn't pay. Driving past the cemetery today where he and my mom are buried, I wondered how many other dads and moms went there early for the same reason.
posted by emjaybee at 12:27 PM on May 5, 2017 [115 favorites]
Masada was a big deal Television miniseries in the early 80s. That's where our TV watching, stuck in the 1970s and 80s President learned about Masada.
Very possibly.
Trump also visited Israel and was shown around by an "unnamed deputy minister" (possibly Yossi Beilin, then-Finance Minister Shimon Peres’s deputy) in the 1980's. There's a sarcastic blog post about the visit at the Times of Israel. He visited the Dead Sea and other locations. It's possible he went to Masada as that's a regular stop for Jews on Birthright and other visitors, thanks to the Israeli Ministry of Tourism. (In an attempt to promote his credibility as a friend of the country, John Kerry repeatedly told a story to Jewish voters during the 2004 campaign about climbing the "snake path" up Masada and then crying out "Am Yisrael Chai!" from the top of the plateau.)
posted by zarq at 12:39 PM on May 5, 2017
Very possibly.
Trump also visited Israel and was shown around by an "unnamed deputy minister" (possibly Yossi Beilin, then-Finance Minister Shimon Peres’s deputy) in the 1980's. There's a sarcastic blog post about the visit at the Times of Israel. He visited the Dead Sea and other locations. It's possible he went to Masada as that's a regular stop for Jews on Birthright and other visitors, thanks to the Israeli Ministry of Tourism. (In an attempt to promote his credibility as a friend of the country, John Kerry repeatedly told a story to Jewish voters during the 2004 campaign about climbing the "snake path" up Masada and then crying out "Am Yisrael Chai!" from the top of the plateau.)
posted by zarq at 12:39 PM on May 5, 2017
Out of the twelve Senators writing the ACA repeal bill, twelve are men.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:42 PM on May 5, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:42 PM on May 5, 2017 [18 favorites]
Here I was thinking I was done with the "becoming physically ill at things John Kerry has said or done" phase of my life.
posted by zachlipton at 12:42 PM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:42 PM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
Labour got absolutely fucked in the UK locals. Lost 320 seats down to 1151 and 7 councils down to 9. Lib Dems lost 37 seats down to 441. Torys hold 1900 seats now (up 558 seats) and 28 councils (up 11).
Labour (and the UK) are going to get fucking slaughtered in June. Social Liberalism is done for another half a decade in the UK. The NHS will be dismantled.
posted by Talez at 12:42 PM on May 5, 2017 [7 favorites]
Labour (and the UK) are going to get fucking slaughtered in June. Social Liberalism is done for another half a decade in the UK. The NHS will be dismantled.
posted by Talez at 12:42 PM on May 5, 2017 [7 favorites]
Genuinely unsure if Trump is saying Obamacare is dead because he thinks it is failing, or because he thinks it was unilaterally repealed by the House
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:43 PM on May 5, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:43 PM on May 5, 2017 [19 favorites]
Here I was thinking I was done with the "becoming physically ill at things John Kerry has said or done" phase of my life.
With visiting Masada or yelling Am Yisrael Chai from the top? Or using it for political gain?
posted by zarq at 12:50 PM on May 5, 2017
With visiting Masada or yelling Am Yisrael Chai from the top? Or using it for political gain?
posted by zarq at 12:50 PM on May 5, 2017
I kind of get this, but middle class people will eventually get sick, or have parents/children/dependents who do. A hypothetical 35 yo white male with no dependents making $75k a year, this looks good. For everyone else, including every woman, this bill is a fucking disaster.
I'm late in making this comment, but this morning on NPR, while talking to -- amazingly -- a Democrat -- Tim Kaine, no less! -- the host asked him if Kaine didn't have to admit that young, healthy people wouldn't benefit from this bill.
Sadly, though he was generally good, Kaine did not respond with "NO, THEY WOULD JUST BE ABLE TO BUY CHEAP, USELESS INSURANCE POLICIES THAT COVER BUPKUS AND THEY JUST BETTER PRAY THEY DON'T GET SICK OR IN AN ACCIDENT, JUST LIKE THE BAD OLD DAYS, AND THAT'S NO BENEFIT AT ALL, YOU FEEBLE, MUTTON-HEADED TWERP!"
posted by Gelatin at 12:52 PM on May 5, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm late in making this comment, but this morning on NPR, while talking to -- amazingly -- a Democrat -- Tim Kaine, no less! -- the host asked him if Kaine didn't have to admit that young, healthy people wouldn't benefit from this bill.
Sadly, though he was generally good, Kaine did not respond with "NO, THEY WOULD JUST BE ABLE TO BUY CHEAP, USELESS INSURANCE POLICIES THAT COVER BUPKUS AND THEY JUST BETTER PRAY THEY DON'T GET SICK OR IN AN ACCIDENT, JUST LIKE THE BAD OLD DAYS, AND THAT'S NO BENEFIT AT ALL, YOU FEEBLE, MUTTON-HEADED TWERP!"
posted by Gelatin at 12:52 PM on May 5, 2017 [6 favorites]
Consumer Reports: How the Affordable Care Act Drove Down Personal Bankruptcy -- Expanded health insurance helped cut the number of filings by half
I would have liked to have seen data prior to the start of the recession included along with per capita rates to account for population size differences. Oh well, still good info.
posted by Green With You at 12:54 PM on May 5, 2017
I would have liked to have seen data prior to the start of the recession included along with per capita rates to account for population size differences. Oh well, still good info.
posted by Green With You at 12:54 PM on May 5, 2017
Labour got absolutely fucked in the UK locals. Lost 320 seats down to 1151 and 7 councils down to 9. Lib Dems lost 37 seats down to 441. Torys hold 1900 seats now (up 558 seats) and 28 councils (up 11).I don't know what any of your words here mean, Talez. Could you explain what you're talking about to a poor soul who only speaks American?
Labour (and the UK) are going to get fucking slaughtered in June. Social Liberalism is done for another half a decade in the UK. The NHS will be dismantled.
posted by ragtag at 12:55 PM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
It affected her financial security for the rest of her life. I have heard dozens of similar stories among just the people I know.
And we haven't even talked about dental care. A dentist is the one who diagnosed my rare auto-immune disease, even though I had symptoms that presented elsewhere on my body (that a GP missed.) And untreated dental problems can lead to other serious health problems, rinse, repeat, etc.
Genuinely unsure if Trump is saying Obamacare is dead because he thinks it is failing, or because he thinks it was unilaterally repealed by the House
I'm sure he is, too. /obvs
posted by Room 641-A at 12:56 PM on May 5, 2017 [10 favorites]
And we haven't even talked about dental care. A dentist is the one who diagnosed my rare auto-immune disease, even though I had symptoms that presented elsewhere on my body (that a GP missed.) And untreated dental problems can lead to other serious health problems, rinse, repeat, etc.
Genuinely unsure if Trump is saying Obamacare is dead because he thinks it is failing, or because he thinks it was unilaterally repealed by the House
I'm sure he is, too. /obvs
posted by Room 641-A at 12:56 PM on May 5, 2017 [10 favorites]
Social Liberalism is done for another half a decade in the UK. The NHS will be dismantled.
People who think the Senate will protect them from the same occurring in the U.S. are deluding themselves. Just look at that Senate ACA repeal committee -- Mitch McConnell, Orrin Hatch, Ted freaking Cruz, Mike Enzi, Mike Lee, Tom Cotton, John Cornyn. Good god, what a horror show. You can kiss Obamacare goodbye.
posted by JackFlash at 12:58 PM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
People who think the Senate will protect them from the same occurring in the U.S. are deluding themselves. Just look at that Senate ACA repeal committee -- Mitch McConnell, Orrin Hatch, Ted freaking Cruz, Mike Enzi, Mike Lee, Tom Cotton, John Cornyn. Good god, what a horror show. You can kiss Obamacare goodbye.
posted by JackFlash at 12:58 PM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
Mark Green, Army Secretary nominee, withdrew his name after his record of anti-LGBT and other hurtful remarks was exposed. That means they've failed on 2 Army Secretaries and 1 Navy Secretary so far.
posted by zachlipton at 1:02 PM on May 5, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 1:02 PM on May 5, 2017 [29 favorites]
Sam Wang: Can math stop partisan gerrymandering?
Although some argue that partisan unfairness arises naturally because Democrats tend to cluster in urban areas, this is not the whole story. After the 2010 wave election and 2012 redistricting, GOP gerrymandering more than doubled the effects of clustering, flipping seats far faster than population migration could possibly explain. Of course, Democrats played the game, too, and in total, more than 70 seats were made uncompetitive for one side or the other. Republicans, however, ended up with a net gain of 16 or 17 safe seats, a difference that can almost exactly account for why they retained control of the House in 2012 despite losing the national popular vote. Without gerrymandering, their 2016 majority would be approximately 231 to 200 seats, a 31-seat margin that is substantially smaller than their current margin of 45 seats. (That might have made all the difference in Thursday’s American Health Care Act vote.)posted by tonycpsu at 1:03 PM on May 5, 2017 [10 favorites]
You can kiss Obamacare goodbye.
Can they do it under the Byrd Rule and get 50 votes in the Senate, with a 2-seat majority, and get a majority of votes in the House, even though a much more right-wing bill just barely squeaked through? Possible, but unlikely.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:08 PM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
Can they do it under the Byrd Rule and get 50 votes in the Senate, with a 2-seat majority, and get a majority of votes in the House, even though a much more right-wing bill just barely squeaked through? Possible, but unlikely.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:08 PM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm thinking that's going to take both the "shame" stick (preferably from their own friends and neighbors and family) and the "we really care about you" carrot (preferably from the Democratic candidates running in these states).
"We really care about you," looks like "We want to bring jobs to your communities. We want your local institutions to thrive, including your churches and your schools. We think you are good people."
I don't.
But it doesn't matter what I think. The Republican voters of the mountain West and elsewhere are Americans, and because of that they, like all Americans, have the right to freedom from want and freedom from fear.
I don't want to buy into the framing that good people deserve the benefits of peace and prosperity that should be every American's birthright. I want to promote the idea that, whether you personally approve of them, the color of their skin, who they want to marry, or who they vote for.
That's the difference between Republicans and Democrats, between conservatives and liberals. We want prosperity for all, not just a few. Democrats need to recognize, as Republicans did before I was born, that the media is not their friend and work hard to get that message out.
Because the Republicans have nothing to answer it.
posted by Gelatin at 1:10 PM on May 5, 2017 [25 favorites]
"We really care about you," looks like "We want to bring jobs to your communities. We want your local institutions to thrive, including your churches and your schools. We think you are good people."
I don't.
But it doesn't matter what I think. The Republican voters of the mountain West and elsewhere are Americans, and because of that they, like all Americans, have the right to freedom from want and freedom from fear.
I don't want to buy into the framing that good people deserve the benefits of peace and prosperity that should be every American's birthright. I want to promote the idea that, whether you personally approve of them, the color of their skin, who they want to marry, or who they vote for.
That's the difference between Republicans and Democrats, between conservatives and liberals. We want prosperity for all, not just a few. Democrats need to recognize, as Republicans did before I was born, that the media is not their friend and work hard to get that message out.
Because the Republicans have nothing to answer it.
posted by Gelatin at 1:10 PM on May 5, 2017 [25 favorites]
Just finished hearing Scott Horstly fellate Pres. Trump's efforts to get the AHCA passed on NPR News. Can I have my liberal media please?
posted by leotrotsky at 1:13 PM on May 5, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by leotrotsky at 1:13 PM on May 5, 2017 [7 favorites]
I live in the DC area. The week of May 14th, when the house is back from recess, I'm going to Capitol Hill where I will read aloud letters from constituents to their representatives' staff, explaining what AHCA would do to them, how ACA helped them, or how they suffered before ACA was enacted. Memail your story, and your district, if you would like me to do the same for you.
Mods, feel free to delete this if it's out of bounds.
posted by galaxy rise at 1:17 PM on May 5, 2017 [22 favorites]
Mods, feel free to delete this if it's out of bounds.
posted by galaxy rise at 1:17 PM on May 5, 2017 [22 favorites]
I would have liked to have seen data prior to the start of the recession included along with per capita rates to account for population size differences. Oh well, still good info.
No per capita info, but here's a more longitudinal look.
The weird crater in 2007 is due to the Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:18 PM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
Low-information voters tend to have a weak understanding of what the political parties stand for and how those positions relate to each other.
I've been chewing on this a bit, and I really can't say I blame them. What do the parties stand for? What do you think they stand for if you're a, and I hate this term, low-information voter and primarily get your news from Facebook and hyper-partisan sources?
The Republicans are the party of rich, successful people, which everyone aspires to be one day, but they keep talking about standing up for the little guy with tough strength and freedom for everyone, right? And the Democrats are the party of the welfare-dependent and elitist smug liberals, when they aren't taking money from healthcare lobbyists, right? If that's the message you're getting, that's going to give you a pretty weird view on how you see the parties.
Trump said all the magic words to these voters. He promised not to cut Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security, kept reassuring them that everyone would be covered by the greatest healthcare plan. These promises were, of course, bullshit, but plenty of voters didn't have the tools to evaluate that. There were plenty of objective signs these promises were crap, not least the fact that the President was obviously ignorant of the basics of healthcare and kept surrounding himself with people who want to end these programs. But people took them seriously, bothsidesism'd them with Clinton's actual detailed policy briefs, and anyone who wasn't looking at this super carefully could easily have come away with the impression that Trump meant it.
Democrats are crap at branding themselves and worse at branding Republicans. Trump wants to claim a victory for this bill? The message needs to be "Trump broke his promise not to cut Medicaid." Republicans need to be known the country over, in a message so simple so as to be etched into the skulls of even the least informed voter, as the party that's coming to take away your Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. Heck, with Paul Ryan in charge, this message has the advantage of even being true.
With visiting Masada or yelling Am Yisrael Chai from the top? Or using it for political gain?
Mainly the last one, though I'm generally tired of support for Israel being a performative activity for politicians.
posted by zachlipton at 1:21 PM on May 5, 2017 [15 favorites]
I've been chewing on this a bit, and I really can't say I blame them. What do the parties stand for? What do you think they stand for if you're a, and I hate this term, low-information voter and primarily get your news from Facebook and hyper-partisan sources?
The Republicans are the party of rich, successful people, which everyone aspires to be one day, but they keep talking about standing up for the little guy with tough strength and freedom for everyone, right? And the Democrats are the party of the welfare-dependent and elitist smug liberals, when they aren't taking money from healthcare lobbyists, right? If that's the message you're getting, that's going to give you a pretty weird view on how you see the parties.
Trump said all the magic words to these voters. He promised not to cut Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security, kept reassuring them that everyone would be covered by the greatest healthcare plan. These promises were, of course, bullshit, but plenty of voters didn't have the tools to evaluate that. There were plenty of objective signs these promises were crap, not least the fact that the President was obviously ignorant of the basics of healthcare and kept surrounding himself with people who want to end these programs. But people took them seriously, bothsidesism'd them with Clinton's actual detailed policy briefs, and anyone who wasn't looking at this super carefully could easily have come away with the impression that Trump meant it.
Democrats are crap at branding themselves and worse at branding Republicans. Trump wants to claim a victory for this bill? The message needs to be "Trump broke his promise not to cut Medicaid." Republicans need to be known the country over, in a message so simple so as to be etched into the skulls of even the least informed voter, as the party that's coming to take away your Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. Heck, with Paul Ryan in charge, this message has the advantage of even being true.
With visiting Masada or yelling Am Yisrael Chai from the top? Or using it for political gain?
Mainly the last one, though I'm generally tired of support for Israel being a performative activity for politicians.
posted by zachlipton at 1:21 PM on May 5, 2017 [15 favorites]
Five questions about Trump Bedminster — this weekend’s Weekend White House
2.) Can I join?
Do you have $75,000?
In recent weeks, The Washington Post spoke to people who had inquired about membership in the club. They were quoted initiation fees between $75,000 and $100,000, in addition to $22,100 annual dues, according to written correspondence between the club and prospective members.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:24 PM on May 5, 2017
2.) Can I join?
Do you have $75,000?
In recent weeks, The Washington Post spoke to people who had inquired about membership in the club. They were quoted initiation fees between $75,000 and $100,000, in addition to $22,100 annual dues, according to written correspondence between the club and prospective members.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:24 PM on May 5, 2017
Labour got absolutely fucked in the UK locals. Lost 320 seats down to 1151 and 7 councils down to 9. Lib Dems lost 37 seats down to 441. Torys hold 1900 seats now (up 558 seats) and 28 councils (up 11).
Labour (and the UK) are going to get fucking slaughtered in June. Social Liberalism is done for another half a decade in the UK. The NHS will be dismantled.
I don't know what any of your words here mean, Talez. Could you explain what you're talking about to a poor soul who only speaks American?
They were local elections - so things like city and town councils (and mayors in some places) that is why there are so many of them.
Labour lost 320 seats on those and are now down to 1151 and they lost majorities on 7 councils and are now down to just 9. A really poor showing reflecting their current directionless state where they are not even sure if they are opposed to Brexit.
posted by srboisvert at 1:25 PM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
Labour (and the UK) are going to get fucking slaughtered in June. Social Liberalism is done for another half a decade in the UK. The NHS will be dismantled.
I don't know what any of your words here mean, Talez. Could you explain what you're talking about to a poor soul who only speaks American?
They were local elections - so things like city and town councils (and mayors in some places) that is why there are so many of them.
Labour lost 320 seats on those and are now down to 1151 and they lost majorities on 7 councils and are now down to just 9. A really poor showing reflecting their current directionless state where they are not even sure if they are opposed to Brexit.
posted by srboisvert at 1:25 PM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
Because they can and do still sue you over the fantastical prices. And the negotiated down price is still exorbitant and precludes care. And because what dying people are best at is completing detailed paperwork and intense negotiating over how much it will cost them to die.
And let us not forget that in some circumstances you may find that the forgiven debt is reported to the IRS on a 1099-C and you've now got a tax liability for it.
Yes, as someone who still owes hospitals, has dealt with collections agencies and had debt forgiven, this isn't some technical kind of pricing. If you owe a hospital $3000 for an emergency visit, they go after you for $3000.
And I was not aware of the 1099-C issue. No one you deal with tells you about it. So we ended up with $10,000 in negotiated debt forgiveness where we paid 50% of our debt and were forgiven the rest. And then had to claim that $10,000 as INCOME one year when we of course never actually had $10,000 but that shoved us up a tax bracket and we ended up in debt to the IRS paying that off for a year.
There really is no better way to get screwed than to be low-income and sick in this country.
posted by threeturtles at 1:29 PM on May 5, 2017 [47 favorites]
And let us not forget that in some circumstances you may find that the forgiven debt is reported to the IRS on a 1099-C and you've now got a tax liability for it.
Yes, as someone who still owes hospitals, has dealt with collections agencies and had debt forgiven, this isn't some technical kind of pricing. If you owe a hospital $3000 for an emergency visit, they go after you for $3000.
And I was not aware of the 1099-C issue. No one you deal with tells you about it. So we ended up with $10,000 in negotiated debt forgiveness where we paid 50% of our debt and were forgiven the rest. And then had to claim that $10,000 as INCOME one year when we of course never actually had $10,000 but that shoved us up a tax bracket and we ended up in debt to the IRS paying that off for a year.
There really is no better way to get screwed than to be low-income and sick in this country.
posted by threeturtles at 1:29 PM on May 5, 2017 [47 favorites]
emjaybee (and the several others who have shared heartbreaking stories), I am very sorry for your loss.
But your wonderful post should be a Democratic campaign commercial.
posted by Gelatin at 1:33 PM on May 5, 2017 [6 favorites]
But your wonderful post should be a Democratic campaign commercial.
posted by Gelatin at 1:33 PM on May 5, 2017 [6 favorites]
Five questions about Trump Bedminster — this weekend’s Weekend White House
5.) Doesn’t the president want to be buried at Bedminster?
While trying to persuade local officials to say yes to these various ideas, both Trump and his representatives said that Trump had selected this club as his final resting place.
“It’s never something you like to think about, but it makes sense,” Trump told the New York Post in 2007. “This is such beautiful land, and Bedminster is one of the richest places in the country.”
Pitiful.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:38 PM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
5.) Doesn’t the president want to be buried at Bedminster?
While trying to persuade local officials to say yes to these various ideas, both Trump and his representatives said that Trump had selected this club as his final resting place.
“It’s never something you like to think about, but it makes sense,” Trump told the New York Post in 2007. “This is such beautiful land, and Bedminster is one of the richest places in the country.”
Pitiful.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:38 PM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
I think it's a massive mistake to keep chasing voters from states where politicians and/or pundits say "you didn't pay enough attention to us" or trying to win over what we perceive as "moderate" Republicans. All that happens is that the goalposts keep getting moved and we as a party have gained nothing except a reputation for "flip flopping" and being too scattered to achieve big things.
We (as a party) need to build a platform we can stand on in every state across the country. Then we nominate and elect the people who whole heartedly believe in that platform-no half hearted compromises, no nit picking each person who shows an interest in running for office. I see a LOT of criticism of Nancy Pelosi and sure, there are things about her that are less than ideal, but in the end she gets. shit. done. I think Bernie has some seriously problematic viewpoints on things like women's rights, but he gets. shit. done. Let's concentrate on the people we have now and strengthen the support for them, rather than hoping we can maybe sway someone who truly believes abortion is murder or that any help from the government is condescending.
Hollygoheavy, I flagged your comment as excellent and am quoting it in its entirety because I agree 100%. I think that the Democrats - at least the leadership - are chasing their own tails in a desperate attempt to win elections - by trying to be as bland and centrist and inoffensive as possible. I think that (among many other things) it really hurt Hillary Clinton to be perceived as an "establishment" candidate linked with Third Way-ism. And I think that Democrats have a reputation that they desperately need to shake, that of being wimpy, spineless, flip-floppers who, as a commenter in a previous thread noted, "stand fast for nothing."
People flocked to Bernie Sanders because he didn't come across as a mushy appeaser. Howard Dean's 50 state strategy worked. Yet current Dem leadership just seems content to wring its hands and say "they hate us in the South/Midwest but whatchagonnado? At least we have California and New England! Meanwhile, if we can run the Blue Doggiest of Blue Dogs who, if he were a spice, he'd be flour, maaaaybe we might possibly win but we're going to be really tepid about it."
Come to think of it, "If We Were A Spice We'd Be Flour" might be a slogan for much of the Democratic leadership. (With apologies to Bob's Burgers!)
I live in a blue county in a blue state with a representative who is co-sponsoring Medicare for All. So I feel like I'm cheering from the sidelines here. But I am So. Fucking. DONE. with: nitpicking every potential Dem candidate to death thus scaring good people away from running, wimpy Third-Way-ism, and kissing the asses of "potential swing voters" with appeals to misogyny and racism. We need to stand up for Medicare for all, human rights for all, a decent living for all. Yes, this means being fiery leftists and not marshmallowy appeasers. Again, I think it's easy for me to say this because of where I live, but, I'll say it again, Bernie Sanders, not a marshmallowy appeaser, got surprising momentum. Democrats would get so much more respect if they found principles and stuck with them. Democratic voters stay home, I think, because we've become the Party of Meh. How inspiring is that?
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 1:38 PM on May 5, 2017 [27 favorites]
We (as a party) need to build a platform we can stand on in every state across the country. Then we nominate and elect the people who whole heartedly believe in that platform-no half hearted compromises, no nit picking each person who shows an interest in running for office. I see a LOT of criticism of Nancy Pelosi and sure, there are things about her that are less than ideal, but in the end she gets. shit. done. I think Bernie has some seriously problematic viewpoints on things like women's rights, but he gets. shit. done. Let's concentrate on the people we have now and strengthen the support for them, rather than hoping we can maybe sway someone who truly believes abortion is murder or that any help from the government is condescending.
Hollygoheavy, I flagged your comment as excellent and am quoting it in its entirety because I agree 100%. I think that the Democrats - at least the leadership - are chasing their own tails in a desperate attempt to win elections - by trying to be as bland and centrist and inoffensive as possible. I think that (among many other things) it really hurt Hillary Clinton to be perceived as an "establishment" candidate linked with Third Way-ism. And I think that Democrats have a reputation that they desperately need to shake, that of being wimpy, spineless, flip-floppers who, as a commenter in a previous thread noted, "stand fast for nothing."
People flocked to Bernie Sanders because he didn't come across as a mushy appeaser. Howard Dean's 50 state strategy worked. Yet current Dem leadership just seems content to wring its hands and say "they hate us in the South/Midwest but whatchagonnado? At least we have California and New England! Meanwhile, if we can run the Blue Doggiest of Blue Dogs who, if he were a spice, he'd be flour, maaaaybe we might possibly win but we're going to be really tepid about it."
Come to think of it, "If We Were A Spice We'd Be Flour" might be a slogan for much of the Democratic leadership. (With apologies to Bob's Burgers!)
I live in a blue county in a blue state with a representative who is co-sponsoring Medicare for All. So I feel like I'm cheering from the sidelines here. But I am So. Fucking. DONE. with: nitpicking every potential Dem candidate to death thus scaring good people away from running, wimpy Third-Way-ism, and kissing the asses of "potential swing voters" with appeals to misogyny and racism. We need to stand up for Medicare for all, human rights for all, a decent living for all. Yes, this means being fiery leftists and not marshmallowy appeasers. Again, I think it's easy for me to say this because of where I live, but, I'll say it again, Bernie Sanders, not a marshmallowy appeaser, got surprising momentum. Democrats would get so much more respect if they found principles and stuck with them. Democratic voters stay home, I think, because we've become the Party of Meh. How inspiring is that?
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 1:38 PM on May 5, 2017 [27 favorites]
So here's my collection of schemes for getting enough people to the polls to flip states currently voting for the vile motherfuckers in the Republican party. All of these thoughts are predicated on the ideas that:
- Winning a state is less about persuading people who don't support you and more about mustering a mass of people who do, and
- Peoples' ideological preferences tend to track with their material interests as they perceive them. This means that moving people doesn't mean winning a debate, it means making them know that it's in their material interests to support you. (sidebar: this is how I know I'll never flip my sister the birther back to sanity. because her social group is largely neoconfederate/neonazi, and because her husband is so deep into neoconfederatism that he might be an actual Klansman, it is definitely in her material interest to loudly support the Republican party.)
- Consistently choose labor-heavy campaign tactics. The point of campaigning isn't just to persuade people, it's to get people on the payroll. Instead of choosing labor-efficient uses of money, like making and placing television ads, the Democratic Party should aim to hire as many paid organizers as possible, in every corner of the country. Ideally everyone everywhere should personally know at least one person on the party payroll -- someone whose livelihood is tied up with the success of the Democratic Party.
- Directly provide medical services in key states. You know how some progressively-minded doctors and dentists have been providing pro bono services in impoverished communities at medical fairs? Hold those at the same site and the same time as Democratic Party rallies, and make clear that this care is coming from the Democratic Party. If it's not legal to straight up brand this as DemCare, brand it as something as close as possible to that. Pay doctors to participate in these events out of the Democratic Party coffers, laundering the money through front organizations to get around elections law.
- Likewise, arrange for free food programs (breakfast programs for kids, meals on wheels services for seniors, etc.) under branding that comes as close as is legally possible to Democratic Party branding.
- Likewise, opioid addiction treatment, provided under as-close-as-is-legally-possible Democratic Party branding. Establish the idea that if you go into a DemCare treatment program, there's a good chance you'll walk out of it with a paid job as a Democratic Party organizer.
- As-close-as-is-legally-possible Democratic Party branded firearms training. As-close-as-is-legally-possible Democratic Party branded, organized and funded hunting trips, in states/areas where this is possible and appropriate. As with the treatment programs, establish idea that people who participate in these programs have a good chance to get paid jobs as Democratic Party organizers.
But I am So. Fucking. DONE. with: nitpicking every potential Dem candidate to death thus scaring good people away from running,
Boy I dunno about that. Like it or not, this is a bloodsport now. Those candidates are gonna be scrutinized within an inch of their lives by opposition, so if they can't handle it from their own party how will they survive it in the general? Maybe you mean something different, and I sure don't disagree that the left has a real problem with eating its own. But we shouldn't ignore that there really is a challenge in threading the needle between purity testing and allowing divergence from things we'd consider core dem values like being pro-choice. You can simply scan upwards in this thread to see both of those extremes.
posted by phearlez at 1:54 PM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
Boy I dunno about that. Like it or not, this is a bloodsport now. Those candidates are gonna be scrutinized within an inch of their lives by opposition, so if they can't handle it from their own party how will they survive it in the general? Maybe you mean something different, and I sure don't disagree that the left has a real problem with eating its own. But we shouldn't ignore that there really is a challenge in threading the needle between purity testing and allowing divergence from things we'd consider core dem values like being pro-choice. You can simply scan upwards in this thread to see both of those extremes.
posted by phearlez at 1:54 PM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
I hope wherever Trump is buried, the ground becomes so flooded with piss that the earth just sort of vomits up his body
Is there a queue already forming or is it based on some sort of ticket system like at the butcher?
posted by Talez at 1:54 PM on May 5, 2017 [20 favorites]
Is there a queue already forming or is it based on some sort of ticket system like at the butcher?
posted by Talez at 1:54 PM on May 5, 2017 [20 favorites]
Consistently choose labor-heavy campaign tactics. The point of campaigning isn't just to persuade people, it's to get people on the payroll.
Back in my reporter days , I wrote about Mark Warner's successful campaign for (then) governor of Virginia. This was something he did really well. He did out-fundraise his opponent, and yes, he spent a lot of money on ads. But I analyzed all of his campaign's spending, and he spent tons on hiring lots of people just to do little stuff like hand out flyers. I'll bet they showed up at the polls for him.
posted by martin q blank at 1:55 PM on May 5, 2017 [8 favorites]
Back in my reporter days , I wrote about Mark Warner's successful campaign for (then) governor of Virginia. This was something he did really well. He did out-fundraise his opponent, and yes, he spent a lot of money on ads. But I analyzed all of his campaign's spending, and he spent tons on hiring lots of people just to do little stuff like hand out flyers. I'll bet they showed up at the polls for him.
posted by martin q blank at 1:55 PM on May 5, 2017 [8 favorites]
Boy I dunno about that. Like it or not, this is a bloodsport now. Those candidates are gonna be scrutinized within an inch of their lives by opposition, so if they can't handle it from their own party how will they survive it in the general?
In the age of Trump, I would suggest the opposite is the case - embrace your personal shitty failures and show no remorse or regret.
posted by nubs at 2:02 PM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
In the age of Trump, I would suggest the opposite is the case - embrace your personal shitty failures and show no remorse or regret.
posted by nubs at 2:02 PM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
How do you win back "red" states that are actually very purple and full of marginalized and disenfranchised people of color? How about you listen to Stacey Abrams, house minority leader in the Georgia legislature, who if all goes well will be the first black woman to be governor of any state?
For Abrams, that means investing in voter turnout efforts to help enfranchise more Americans down the road. “Organizing means changing behavior and changing behavior is hard,” she says. But, she adds, “changing ideology is harder”.posted by hydropsyche at 2:04 PM on May 5, 2017 [34 favorites]
Abrams, whose parents are ministers, reaches for a religious metaphor.
“We spend a lot of time trying to convince atheists to be Catholics rather than just getting Baptists to go to church,” she says. “For many people who don’t vote, they don’t vote because they don’t see what’s in it for them.”
It’s a national problem, but one that’s specifically visible in Georgia.
And Abrams wants voters to know that, the way she’d do things, there is something in government for them, and it starts with everyone showing up to vote.
OnceUponATime: "Yeah, I don't know what exactly these voters want and what they consider condescending and so on. But I don't think we're going to win their votes by implying they are all psychopaths, and that is really my main point here."
But you yourself admit that there are some people who are unable to be reached at any reasonable cost. And while you might think those people comprise 5% of the party, I think they comprise 95%--a large enough sample that yes, I think classifying them as psychopaths absolutely helps Democrats electorally.
People are tired of the lying. Part of Trump's appeal is that he is an obvious crook (I know this sounds insane). If all politicians are crooks, why not at least get one who isn't ashamed of it, right?
So don't lie to people. These policies and the people who support them are literally psychopathic. If the shoe fits, so be it. Calling Republicans evil will bring more Democrats to the polls.
posted by TypographicalError at 2:06 PM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
But you yourself admit that there are some people who are unable to be reached at any reasonable cost. And while you might think those people comprise 5% of the party, I think they comprise 95%--a large enough sample that yes, I think classifying them as psychopaths absolutely helps Democrats electorally.
People are tired of the lying. Part of Trump's appeal is that he is an obvious crook (I know this sounds insane). If all politicians are crooks, why not at least get one who isn't ashamed of it, right?
So don't lie to people. These policies and the people who support them are literally psychopathic. If the shoe fits, so be it. Calling Republicans evil will bring more Democrats to the polls.
posted by TypographicalError at 2:06 PM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
I don't know what any of your words here mean, Talez. Could you explain what you're talking about to a poor soul who only speaks American?
So, the real problem here was that Wikipedia is horrible and assumes you have a working knowledge of the last 400 years of British political history. Which, of course, I don't. (I always thought the Tories were people loyal to the crown who moved to Canada after the Revolutionary War (like my ancestors). These days I kinda wish they didn't move back.)
But it turns out there's a simple English Wikipedia for dummies like me!
So, to answer my own question (in case it's helpful to anyone else),
posted by ragtag at 2:10 PM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
So, the real problem here was that Wikipedia is horrible and assumes you have a working knowledge of the last 400 years of British political history. Which, of course, I don't. (I always thought the Tories were people loyal to the crown who moved to Canada after the Revolutionary War (like my ancestors). These days I kinda wish they didn't move back.)
But it turns out there's a simple English Wikipedia for dummies like me!
So, to answer my own question (in case it's helpful to anyone else),
Labour got absolutely fucked in the UK locals. Lost 320 seats down to 1151 and 7 councils down to 9. Lib Dems lost 37 seats down to 441. Torys hold 1900 seats now (up 558 seats) and 28 councils (up 11).♥
Labour (and the UK) are going to get fucking slaughtered in June. Social Liberalism is done for another half a decade in the UK. The NHS will be dismantled.
posted by ragtag at 2:10 PM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
I am honestly a little surprised that Trump publicly acknowledges that he will die some day, just like the rest of us who are not Donald Trump.
posted by The Card Cheat at 2:24 PM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 2:24 PM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
It is still dark. You are still likely to be eaten by a Gorka.
Trump and Bannon ‘Personally Intervened’ to Save Seb Gorka
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:26 PM on May 5, 2017 [21 favorites]
Trump and Bannon ‘Personally Intervened’ to Save Seb Gorka
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:26 PM on May 5, 2017 [21 favorites]
Calling Republicans evil will bring more Democrats to the polls.
And more Republicans too. In places where they far outnumber Democrats.
Directly provide medical services in key states.
For once I am totally on the same page as you, YCTaB.
Malala Yousafzai writing about how the violent extremists first won support in her part of Pakistan in the aftermath of an earthquake:
If the DNC sets aside money for a traveling free clinic, I'll donate.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:28 PM on May 5, 2017 [17 favorites]
And more Republicans too. In places where they far outnumber Democrats.
Directly provide medical services in key states.
For once I am totally on the same page as you, YCTaB.
Malala Yousafzai writing about how the violent extremists first won support in her part of Pakistan in the aftermath of an earthquake:
Most of the volunteers came from Islamic charities or organizations, but some of these were fronts for militant groups. The most visible of all was Jamaat-ul-Dawa (JuD), the welfare wing of Lashkar-e-Taiba. LeT had close links to the ISI and was set up to liberate [sic] Kashmir [...] When the earthquake happened and our government did little to help, JuD set up relief camps patrolled by men with Kalashnikovs and walkie-talkies. Everyone knows these men belonged to LeT, and soon their black and white banners with crossed swords were flying everywhere in the mountains and valleys. In the town of Muzaffarabad in Azad Kashmir the JuD even set up a large field hospital with X-ray machines, an operating room, a well-stocked pharmacy and a dental department. Doctors and surgeons offered their services along with thousands of young volunteers [...] With such a large number of people killed, there were many children orphaned— 11,000 of them. In our culture orphans are usually taken in by the extended family, but the earthquake was so bad that entire families had been wiped out or lost everything and were in no position to take in children. The government promised they would all be looked after by the state, but that felt as empty as most government promises. My father heard that many of the boys were taken in by the JuD and housed in their madrasas. In Pakistan, madrasas are a kind of welfare system, as they give free food and lodging, but their teaching does not follow a normal curriculum.This is how violent militias became politically popular. It could maybe even work for Democrats in red states.
If the DNC sets aside money for a traveling free clinic, I'll donate.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:28 PM on May 5, 2017 [17 favorites]
Politico, fresh off being dismissed by Sarah Sanders from the podium and then updating their article with the documents to prove they were right, now has Trump’s new opioids strategy ‘devastates’ advocates
Another message Democrats should shouting from the rooftops: "Trump wants to cut billions of dollars in drug treatment and close the office that deals with the opioid crisis."
posted by zachlipton at 2:28 PM on May 5, 2017 [31 favorites]
Another message Democrats should shouting from the rooftops: "Trump wants to cut billions of dollars in drug treatment and close the office that deals with the opioid crisis."
posted by zachlipton at 2:28 PM on May 5, 2017 [31 favorites]
But we shouldn't ignore that there really is a challenge in threading the needle between purity testing and allowing divergence from things we'd consider core dem values like being pro-choice.
Do you mean that a core Dem value is being personally pro choice? Because I believe that there are a lot of Dems that are personally pro life, but believe that every woman has a right to make the choice for themselves. I think that people who vote for Dem candidates are trusting that candidate to be able to keep themselves from forcing their own personal values on other people. That, to me, is one of the biggest things that makes a person vote liberal or conservative. Liberals feel that whatever their personal values are personal, conservatives tend to feel that their personal values should be forcibly applied to everyone.
If we go down a road where it's not enough to vote with the rest of the party in spite of your personal values, we can't ever expect to find strong viable candidates for office. We are a big tent party and it should be recognized that as the party who accepts and celebrates diversity, we have to allow our candidates to have diverse personal values-as long as they vote in support of the official party platform.
posted by hollygoheavy at 2:30 PM on May 5, 2017 [8 favorites]
Do you mean that a core Dem value is being personally pro choice? Because I believe that there are a lot of Dems that are personally pro life, but believe that every woman has a right to make the choice for themselves. I think that people who vote for Dem candidates are trusting that candidate to be able to keep themselves from forcing their own personal values on other people. That, to me, is one of the biggest things that makes a person vote liberal or conservative. Liberals feel that whatever their personal values are personal, conservatives tend to feel that their personal values should be forcibly applied to everyone.
If we go down a road where it's not enough to vote with the rest of the party in spite of your personal values, we can't ever expect to find strong viable candidates for office. We are a big tent party and it should be recognized that as the party who accepts and celebrates diversity, we have to allow our candidates to have diverse personal values-as long as they vote in support of the official party platform.
posted by hollygoheavy at 2:30 PM on May 5, 2017 [8 favorites]
Roland Martin: Message For Bill Maher, Bernie Sanders, Bob Beckel, Other White Progressives About Identity Politics
posted by Talez at 2:30 PM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Talez at 2:30 PM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
Because I believe that there are a lot of Dems that are personally pro life, but believe that every woman has a right to make the choice for themselves.
That IS pro-choice.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 2:32 PM on May 5, 2017 [74 favorites]
That IS pro-choice.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 2:32 PM on May 5, 2017 [74 favorites]
Trump and Bannon ‘Personally Intervened’ to Save Seb Gorka
Nazis have got to stick together.
posted by Artw at 2:32 PM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
Nazis have got to stick together.
posted by Artw at 2:32 PM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
> And while you might think those people comprise 5% of the party, I think they comprise 95%--a large enough sample that yes, I think classifying them as psychopaths absolutely helps Democrats electorally.
I am still deeply uncomfortable with framing that medicalizes political beliefs and behaviors. The material interests of a lot of the voters you're talking about nudge them very strongly indeed toward having antisocial beliefs and behaving in antisocial ways. This doesn't mean they're psychopaths, it just means they're wrong.
I mean, hell, liberals living under capitalism, and even socialists and anarchists living under capitalism, do a lot of things that in the abstract can be viewed as sociopathic/psychopathic, because that's how capital demands we act. We walk past homeless people on the street without giving them all our money, we work jobs where we have to rip people off to succeed, some of us rent out property at a profit, almost all of us wear clothes made by child slaves. This doesn't mean we're psychopaths, it means we're living in a fucked up world that demands that we participate in the fuckery to survive.
Moreover, the overstatement involved in declaring Republicanism as a symptom of mental illness loses votes, to my eyes; I imagine non-politically-activated people hearing that, and then thinking "well the Republicans I know are assholes, sure, but I don't think they're psychopaths," and then not listening to you.
Like, go ahead and medicalize political beliefs if you want, but don't be surprised if it doesn't win votes... and don't be surprised, comrade, when we medicalize your behaviors and gleefully purge you. (And I'll promise to say "it's a fair cop" when they declare my political beliefs an infantile disorder and come to purge me too.)
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:36 PM on May 5, 2017 [17 favorites]
I am still deeply uncomfortable with framing that medicalizes political beliefs and behaviors. The material interests of a lot of the voters you're talking about nudge them very strongly indeed toward having antisocial beliefs and behaving in antisocial ways. This doesn't mean they're psychopaths, it just means they're wrong.
I mean, hell, liberals living under capitalism, and even socialists and anarchists living under capitalism, do a lot of things that in the abstract can be viewed as sociopathic/psychopathic, because that's how capital demands we act. We walk past homeless people on the street without giving them all our money, we work jobs where we have to rip people off to succeed, some of us rent out property at a profit, almost all of us wear clothes made by child slaves. This doesn't mean we're psychopaths, it means we're living in a fucked up world that demands that we participate in the fuckery to survive.
Moreover, the overstatement involved in declaring Republicanism as a symptom of mental illness loses votes, to my eyes; I imagine non-politically-activated people hearing that, and then thinking "well the Republicans I know are assholes, sure, but I don't think they're psychopaths," and then not listening to you.
Like, go ahead and medicalize political beliefs if you want, but don't be surprised if it doesn't win votes... and don't be surprised, comrade, when we medicalize your behaviors and gleefully purge you. (And I'll promise to say "it's a fair cop" when they declare my political beliefs an infantile disorder and come to purge me too.)
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:36 PM on May 5, 2017 [17 favorites]
I hope wherever Trump is buried, the ground becomes so flooded with piss that the earth just sort of vomits up his body
I shit on your grave.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:39 PM on May 5, 2017
National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: The Health-Care Lottery (with apologies to Shirley Fackson)
The morning of the drawing dawned bright and clear, with the fresh warmth of a full summer day.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:39 PM on May 5, 2017 [13 favorites]
The flowers blossomed profusely and the grass was lushly green, like a fresh 20-dollar bill. Old Mr. Paulson had once held a 20-dollar bill before he had discovered something wrong with his heart and been placed here with the others with Conditions; it had smelled like a kale chip.
Given the high demand for spitting, pissing, and shitting on trump's grave, do you think that we should distribute the right to deposit bodily fluids and excrement on his grave through market-based allocation, or instead through a socialized system that evenly distributes these rights to all interested parties?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:42 PM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:42 PM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
Trump and Bannon ‘Personally Intervened’ to Save Seb Gorka
He's ablative. He, Steven Miller, etc. have to be kept around as canaries in the acceptability coalmine. The lesson of today is that the bar is lower than fabricating qualifications.
posted by rhizome at 2:42 PM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
He's ablative. He, Steven Miller, etc. have to be kept around as canaries in the acceptability coalmine. The lesson of today is that the bar is lower than fabricating qualifications.
posted by rhizome at 2:42 PM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's my understanding that the ACA has a number of provisions that affect the cost f healthcare, and therefore the profit. What happened to these provisions?
posted by theora55 at 2:43 PM on May 5, 2017
posted by theora55 at 2:43 PM on May 5, 2017
...it's a recipe for Peasant Vegetable Soup. I didn't check but I assume it's made from actual peasants.
This reminds me that the Columbia Journalism Review once published this headline typo from the Atlanta Journal and Constitution: Prince Andrew Takes Koo Peasant Hunting In Scotland
posted by Killick at 2:45 PM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
This reminds me that the Columbia Journalism Review once published this headline typo from the Atlanta Journal and Constitution: Prince Andrew Takes Koo Peasant Hunting In Scotland
posted by Killick at 2:45 PM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
Because I believe that there are a lot of Dems that are personally pro life, but believe that every woman has a right to make the choice for themselves.
That IS pro-choice.
That's my point, this is exactly the definition of being pro choice. However you have situations like the whole Heath Mello mess where it's a HUGE DEAL that he co sponsored a bill that could be construed as anti choice. 8 years ago. Instead of everyone supporting a candidate who flat out states his personal beliefs won't impact his support of reproductive rights, it's a squabble in the party over whether he should even call himself a true Democrat. Heath Mello says "it's YOUR choice how to handle your reproductive rights, it's not my business" but that's apparently not enough. This is a local mayoral race that has gotten national attention and we as a party look like a bunch of toddlers fighting over whether the blanket is pink or blue. It's a blanket we're all going to take a nap under if we even get a chance before the big kids burn all the blankets in the room.
posted by hollygoheavy at 2:46 PM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
That IS pro-choice.
That's my point, this is exactly the definition of being pro choice. However you have situations like the whole Heath Mello mess where it's a HUGE DEAL that he co sponsored a bill that could be construed as anti choice. 8 years ago. Instead of everyone supporting a candidate who flat out states his personal beliefs won't impact his support of reproductive rights, it's a squabble in the party over whether he should even call himself a true Democrat. Heath Mello says "it's YOUR choice how to handle your reproductive rights, it's not my business" but that's apparently not enough. This is a local mayoral race that has gotten national attention and we as a party look like a bunch of toddlers fighting over whether the blanket is pink or blue. It's a blanket we're all going to take a nap under if we even get a chance before the big kids burn all the blankets in the room.
posted by hollygoheavy at 2:46 PM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's my understanding that the ACA has a number of provisions that affect the cost f healthcare, and therefore the profit. What happened to these provisions?
This is one of the reasons the AHCA is so terrible. It doesn't return the funding that used to pay for the uninsured which was ended with the ACA. So now more people will be uninsured and the system will be far less able to deal with them. It's literally not workable, and the only way insurance companies will be able to survive is to cut off as much treatment as possible.
As far as I know the other cost-lowering measures were already sabotaged by the GOP in 2014 and that's why prices have continued to rise (albeit slower than before the ACA.)
The main thing Republicans are using to defend this POS is that it doesn't AUTOMATICALLY kick people with pre-existing conditions off insurance. No, but if insurance companies have the choice whether to help people or make more profits, which one do you think is going to happen? The fact that the GOP is just hand-waving this as if the market has compassion is one of their biggest lies.
posted by threeturtles at 2:51 PM on May 5, 2017 [7 favorites]
This is one of the reasons the AHCA is so terrible. It doesn't return the funding that used to pay for the uninsured which was ended with the ACA. So now more people will be uninsured and the system will be far less able to deal with them. It's literally not workable, and the only way insurance companies will be able to survive is to cut off as much treatment as possible.
As far as I know the other cost-lowering measures were already sabotaged by the GOP in 2014 and that's why prices have continued to rise (albeit slower than before the ACA.)
The main thing Republicans are using to defend this POS is that it doesn't AUTOMATICALLY kick people with pre-existing conditions off insurance. No, but if insurance companies have the choice whether to help people or make more profits, which one do you think is going to happen? The fact that the GOP is just hand-waving this as if the market has compassion is one of their biggest lies.
posted by threeturtles at 2:51 PM on May 5, 2017 [7 favorites]
However you have situations like the whole Heath Mello mess where it's a HUGE DEAL that he co sponsored a bill that could be construed as anti choice.
He co-sponsored a BAN on abortion. That's not "could be construed as anti choice." That's making abortion illegal. The reason he became an issue isn't because he shouldn't have been allowed to call himself a Democrat, it's because national figures like Bernie Sanders and the DNC shouldn't be giving him support and praise. They brought him into the spotlight as some kind of paragon of a Democratic future. Which feels like a slap in the face to a LOT of women.
posted by threeturtles at 2:55 PM on May 5, 2017 [28 favorites]
He co-sponsored a BAN on abortion. That's not "could be construed as anti choice." That's making abortion illegal. The reason he became an issue isn't because he shouldn't have been allowed to call himself a Democrat, it's because national figures like Bernie Sanders and the DNC shouldn't be giving him support and praise. They brought him into the spotlight as some kind of paragon of a Democratic future. Which feels like a slap in the face to a LOT of women.
posted by threeturtles at 2:55 PM on May 5, 2017 [28 favorites]
> No, but if insurance companies have the choice whether to help people or make more profits, which one do you think is going to happen?
It's not a death spiral, it's the Swirly of Prosperity.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:56 PM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's not a death spiral, it's the Swirly of Prosperity.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:56 PM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
Mark Green, Trump’s pick for Army post, drops out amid growing criticism
Buh bye Horrible Deplorable
posted by futz at 3:02 PM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
Buh bye Horrible Deplorable
posted by futz at 3:02 PM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
This column from The Star-Ledger is a punch in the gut to Rep. Tom MacArthur and his "deal"—This N.J. Republican just lost any claim of being a moderate:
Then he got personal. He told me about losing his daughter at age 11, with her medical bills reaching $1 million, a sum he knows an uninsured family could never handle.posted by zachlipton at 3:02 PM on May 5, 2017 [85 favorites]
The interview stopped there, on a dime. I lost a son to cancer, and as anyone in this circle of hell knows, it is a brotherhood that goes far deeper than politics. MacArthur told his staffers to leave us, and we talked alone about the horror of it.
Later, he told me his mother died of cancer when he was four, and his father had no insurance. His dad worked three jobs for two decades trying to pay those bills, and still, needed help in the end.
This is a man, I thought, who would never be caught in the stale ideological debate about health care. Republican or not, I felt certain he would be no part of a plan to strip coverage from millions of families.
And then he voted for the first repeal. And when that flopped, he did something worse: He saved it by making it more harsh, allowing states to opt out of the key protections for those with pre-existing conditions. He was the supposed moderate leader, reaching out to the right.
FCC to investigate, 'take appropriate action' on Colbert’s Trump rant
posted by zachlipton at 3:07 PM on May 5, 2017 [44 favorites]
FCC Chairman Ajit Pai promised to “take the appropriate action” following a comprehensive investigation of Colbert’s remarks.Whether you like the monologue or not, even if you consider it homophobic, this is fucked up.
The FCC's response will depend on whether Colbert’s remarks are considered “obscene.”
“We are going to take the facts that we find and we are going to apply the law as it’s been set out by the Supreme Court and other courts and we’ll take the appropriate action,” he told Talk Radio 1210 WPHT Thursday.
posted by zachlipton at 3:07 PM on May 5, 2017 [44 favorites]
It's just occurred to me that when Trump talks about repealing the Johnson amendment (ie, allowing churches to endorse political campaigns from the pulpit) he is actually talking about allowing Republicans to do, even more openly than they already are, what YCTaB just recommended that the Democrats do. That is -- churches already are providing services in a lot of rural communities. And for better or worse they already are branded as Republican in many cases. Without the Johnson rule, that branding will become even clearer.
(And also as many other have pointed out your tax deductible donation to a church will be usable for political campaigning. Normally political campaign contributions are not deductible.)
But seriously -- Republicans are already directly providing Republican "branded" services in many of these places. So it's no wonder their support is so high. I just never thought about it that way.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:10 PM on May 5, 2017 [10 favorites]
(And also as many other have pointed out your tax deductible donation to a church will be usable for political campaigning. Normally political campaign contributions are not deductible.)
But seriously -- Republicans are already directly providing Republican "branded" services in many of these places. So it's no wonder their support is so high. I just never thought about it that way.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:10 PM on May 5, 2017 [10 favorites]
Rep. Tom MacArthur
Boy I sure can think of a lot of picket signs to follow him around.
posted by rhizome at 3:12 PM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
Boy I sure can think of a lot of picket signs to follow him around.
posted by rhizome at 3:12 PM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
People need to stop trotting out discredited pro-Mello talking points.
posted by winna at 3:12 PM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by winna at 3:12 PM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
And Colbert is safe. Pai will lose terribly in the court of public opinion if he pushes this at all.
posted by rhizome at 3:13 PM on May 5, 2017
posted by rhizome at 3:13 PM on May 5, 2017
FCC to investigate, 'take appropriate action' on Colbert’s Trump rant
Hey look, potential ACTUAL violations of free speech! I'm sure the republicans will be all over it.
posted by zug at 3:13 PM on May 5, 2017 [12 favorites]
Hey look, potential ACTUAL violations of free speech! I'm sure the republicans will be all over it.
posted by zug at 3:13 PM on May 5, 2017 [12 favorites]
From zachlipton's FCC to investigate, 'take appropriate action' on Colbert’s Trump rant link:
The agency received “a number” of complaints about Colbert’s commentary earlier in the week, according to the FCC’s chief.
How many of the complainers do you suppose don't believe in hate crimes because of "free speech?"
posted by ActingTheGoat at 3:14 PM on May 5, 2017 [6 favorites]
The agency received “a number” of complaints about Colbert’s commentary earlier in the week, according to the FCC’s chief.
How many of the complainers do you suppose don't believe in hate crimes because of "free speech?"
posted by ActingTheGoat at 3:14 PM on May 5, 2017 [6 favorites]
I've been thinking a lot today about how a lack of professional medical care will cause people to turn to self- and non-professional medical care. This is very often illegal. Sometimes it isn't pursued by the law as in when Quiverfuls, unable to afford OB-Gyns, use midwives, friends, and family members for pregnancy and childbirth.
In some states the laws covering the licensing of midwives is very lax with few education requirements. In all states it is perfectly legal for you to labor at home with no assistance other than family and friends as long as they receive no pay. So what has happened is that in Quiverful families they have developed a network of midwives who have been struck off the books, friends who have taken some classes, and sisters who are trained on the spot after watching mom give birth 12 times.
On the other hand I'm pretty sure that waiting over night to see if your child really did break their arm as Congressman Huizenga claimed to have done and cited as a responsible choice to avert large medical bills would be frowned upon by child services and might end in a legal battle for the parents.
Other ways self treatment could be illegal: taking pet meds, sharing meds, stitching up friends and family, using folk lore to cure your child, going to unlicensed medical practitioners for cut rate healthcare. I'm sure there are many other ways that I am not thinking of where your choices are limited not just by what is affordable but also what is legal.
As someone who has not always had coverage I know a far amount about the "wait and see" method. I also know about self treating and calling your mom/friend, the nurse, for a phone diagnosis-- which was a thing long before the internet. Now, of course, it is easy to google symptoms. The one thing I wished for most of all as an uncovered person was pain relief. If I could have bought opiates on the street I would never have gone to the doctor for things like bursitis or migraines.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:18 PM on May 5, 2017 [8 favorites]
In some states the laws covering the licensing of midwives is very lax with few education requirements. In all states it is perfectly legal for you to labor at home with no assistance other than family and friends as long as they receive no pay. So what has happened is that in Quiverful families they have developed a network of midwives who have been struck off the books, friends who have taken some classes, and sisters who are trained on the spot after watching mom give birth 12 times.
On the other hand I'm pretty sure that waiting over night to see if your child really did break their arm as Congressman Huizenga claimed to have done and cited as a responsible choice to avert large medical bills would be frowned upon by child services and might end in a legal battle for the parents.
Other ways self treatment could be illegal: taking pet meds, sharing meds, stitching up friends and family, using folk lore to cure your child, going to unlicensed medical practitioners for cut rate healthcare. I'm sure there are many other ways that I am not thinking of where your choices are limited not just by what is affordable but also what is legal.
As someone who has not always had coverage I know a far amount about the "wait and see" method. I also know about self treating and calling your mom/friend, the nurse, for a phone diagnosis-- which was a thing long before the internet. Now, of course, it is easy to google symptoms. The one thing I wished for most of all as an uncovered person was pain relief. If I could have bought opiates on the street I would never have gone to the doctor for things like bursitis or migraines.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:18 PM on May 5, 2017 [8 favorites]
I'm sorry if I offended anyone by bringing up Heath Mello. It certainly wasn't my intent and I can understand why his history is upsetting. I didn't use the best example to make my point.
posted by hollygoheavy at 3:19 PM on May 5, 2017
posted by hollygoheavy at 3:19 PM on May 5, 2017
The Colbert thing is a trumped-up (heh) raid by the kek/pepe denizens of /pol/.
posted by valkane at 3:20 PM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by valkane at 3:20 PM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
I am shocked, shocked to bring you this report: Macron campaign says it has been the victim of a massive, coordinated hacking operation
This is how it's going to be anywhere in the world now. The most absurd candidate will be propped up by a steady stream of hacks and attacks.
posted by zachlipton at 3:21 PM on May 5, 2017 [29 favorites]
This is how it's going to be anywhere in the world now. The most absurd candidate will be propped up by a steady stream of hacks and attacks.
posted by zachlipton at 3:21 PM on May 5, 2017 [29 favorites]
Given the high demand for spitting, pissing, and shitting on trump's grave, do you think that we should distribute the right to deposit bodily fluids and excrement on his grave through market-based allocation, or instead through a socialized system that evenly distributes these rights to all interested parties?
i say we hijack the local portapotty honey truck and dump it out all at once, as a perfect anarchist solution
posted by pyramid termite at 3:23 PM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
i say we hijack the local portapotty honey truck and dump it out all at once, as a perfect anarchist solution
posted by pyramid termite at 3:23 PM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
Because I believe that there are a lot of Dems that are personally pro life, but believe that every woman has a right to make the choice for themselves.
That's not an assumption I can make of my state Democrats in heavily Catholic Rhode Island. Or of Representative Langevin. While we have some truly progressive state Democrats, many of them are Blue Dogs who are Catholics first, Democrats second.
posted by Ruki at 3:26 PM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
That's not an assumption I can make of my state Democrats in heavily Catholic Rhode Island. Or of Representative Langevin. While we have some truly progressive state Democrats, many of them are Blue Dogs who are Catholics first, Democrats second.
posted by Ruki at 3:26 PM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
> That is -- churches already are providing services in a lot of rural communities. And for better or worse they already are branded as Republican in many cases. Without the Johnson rule, that branding will become even clearer.
What's more, shooting ranges are slathered in hard-right propaganda — stuff running the gamut from relatively tame NRA-branded materials against leftists and liberals to openly Islamophobic stickers with stuff like "I see your jihad and raise you a crusade." The most unhinged scheme in my list — the one that the right would absolutely interpret as an attempt to build a partisan army — is more or less already being done by the right.
We could either tut-tut about how it's so wrong that they're using these materially effective tactics, or we could use them ourselves. For my part, I don't think there's anything unethical about them, and so have no qualms about the left using them as well — in fact, I think the Democratic Party using these tactics would be a positive good, since even setting potential electoral gains aside, they would help build community and improve lives.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:31 PM on May 5, 2017 [18 favorites]
What's more, shooting ranges are slathered in hard-right propaganda — stuff running the gamut from relatively tame NRA-branded materials against leftists and liberals to openly Islamophobic stickers with stuff like "I see your jihad and raise you a crusade." The most unhinged scheme in my list — the one that the right would absolutely interpret as an attempt to build a partisan army — is more or less already being done by the right.
We could either tut-tut about how it's so wrong that they're using these materially effective tactics, or we could use them ourselves. For my part, I don't think there's anything unethical about them, and so have no qualms about the left using them as well — in fact, I think the Democratic Party using these tactics would be a positive good, since even setting potential electoral gains aside, they would help build community and improve lives.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:31 PM on May 5, 2017 [18 favorites]
BuzzFeed News is trying something new:
posted by Room 641-A at 3:32 PM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
Helping You See Outside Your BubbleExample
BuzzFeed News is launching an experiment this week called “Outside Your Bubble,” an attempt to give our audience a glimpse at what’s happening outside their own social media spaces.
The Outside Your Bubble feature will appear as a module at the bottom of some widely shared news articles and will pull in what people are saying about the piece on Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, the web, and other platforms. It’s a response to the reality that often the same story will have two or three distinct and siloed conversations taking place around it on social media, where people talk to the like-minded without even being aware of other perspectives on the same reporting.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:32 PM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
whatever, I'm not living in a bubble. I regularly interact with people who hold a diverse range of political stances — everything from democratic socialism all the way to anarchosyndicalism.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:36 PM on May 5, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:36 PM on May 5, 2017 [22 favorites]
Helping You See Outside Your Bubble
The "both sides do it" people are so close. So close. Just throw in a grand bargain or a reach across the aisle and they will achieve climax.
posted by indubitable at 3:37 PM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
The "both sides do it" people are so close. So close. Just throw in a grand bargain or a reach across the aisle and they will achieve climax.
posted by indubitable at 3:37 PM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
Flynn was warned by Trump transition officials about contacts with Russian ambassador
Flynn was told during a late November meeting that Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak’s conversations were almost certainly being monitored by U.S. intelligence agencies, officials said, a caution that came a month before Flynn was recorded discussing U.S. sanctions against Russia with Kislyak, suggesting that the Trump administration would reevaluate the issue.So it turns out the Transition had at least one halfway competent person who realized what was going on and tried to warn them, but he was ignored. Nice kicker too:
Officials were so concerned that Flynn did not fully understand the motives of the Russian ambassador that the head of Trump’s national security council transition team asked Obama administration officials for a classified CIA profile of Kislyak, officials said. The document was delivered within days, officials said, but it is not clear that Flynn ever read it.
During Flynn’s fleeting tenure as national security adviser, he had several follow-on conversations with Kislyak and at one point proposed a lunch, officials said. The Russian Embassy called repeatedly to collect on that offer, officials said, until Flynn was fired and the calls stopped.posted by zachlipton at 3:39 PM on May 5, 2017 [12 favorites]
Here is a non-health issue I've been thinking about today. Given Trump's shamelessness I can easily see him passing out Presidential pardons like candy should any indictments come down. Furthermore if someone close to him, Kushner for example, is indicted not only would I expect Trump to pardon him but I would be willing to bet that Kushner would be right back in the White House.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:42 PM on May 5, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:42 PM on May 5, 2017 [8 favorites]
Slate: Ivanka Trump Is the Sparkly Vampire America Craves
After the House passed the AHCA bill Thursday, I stood up and walked outside. I took Women Who Work with me. It was when the sunlight hit the cover of the book at a certain angle, causing Ivanka’s pale skin to sparkle, that I realized who she reminded me of. That dewy parasitism, like Dracula after a meal—America’s first daughter belongs to the Twilight phenomenon, to the pop culture vogue for attractive vampires. The core fantasy of the series was that creatures born to prey on us might come to love and protect us instead. That a glamorous and sophisticated child of darkness, decked in ancestral riches, could float down from the tower and, seeing our potential, remake us in her image. Some blood might be spilled (ours, even!), but would that not be a small price to pay for “architecting a life you love—a full, multidimensional life”?posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:49 PM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
Perhaps it is no coincidence that the fabled Ivanka voter hails from the same demographic—white, middle class, female—that devours romance novels in general and snapped up Stephenie Meyer’s in particular. Or perhaps this administration has rewritten so many rules and unraveled so many norms that I’m mistaking fiction for truth. The Trumps are right about one thing, though: We can occasionally be authoring our destinies even when we believe ourselves to be fortune’s fools. After all, we invited them in.
This is why I roll my eyes when somebody talks about "normalizing Trump". Trump and his family have been considered "perfectly normal" by way too much of America for way too long. It's the Clintons and the Obamas who have been fighting furiously to become "normalized".
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:58 PM on May 5, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:58 PM on May 5, 2017 [7 favorites]
Pentagon to lease privately owned Trump Tower apartment for nuclear 'football'
MacStravic, who wrote that he was "temporarily performing the duties of the Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition, Technology, and Logistics," said any acquisition of leased space with "an annual rental in excess of $1 million must first be approved by my office."
He "approved this action" after consulting with the White House Military Office and other officials, he said.
Officials declined to reveal the cost of the lease or identify the owners of the apartment.
MacStravic's letter, dated March 3, added: "We are not aware of any means through which the President would personally benefit from a Government lease of this space."
posted by futz at 3:59 PM on May 5, 2017 [16 favorites]
MacStravic, who wrote that he was "temporarily performing the duties of the Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition, Technology, and Logistics," said any acquisition of leased space with "an annual rental in excess of $1 million must first be approved by my office."
He "approved this action" after consulting with the White House Military Office and other officials, he said.
Officials declined to reveal the cost of the lease or identify the owners of the apartment.
MacStravic's letter, dated March 3, added: "We are not aware of any means through which the President would personally benefit from a Government lease of this space."
posted by futz at 3:59 PM on May 5, 2017 [16 favorites]
Bonus: the escorts they're busted for hosting in the future live only a couple floors away.
posted by rhizome at 4:02 PM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 4:02 PM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
And this Cracked.com why-does-it-HAVE-to-be-a-listicle sums up pretty well how the target demographic for the "Liberal Media" New York Times is totally the Trump family.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:02 PM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:02 PM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
Has trump even been back to his gaudy tower? Not that I remember. Why don't they just Airbnb a unit when they need it or use a room in his residence?
posted by futz at 4:05 PM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by futz at 4:05 PM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
MacStravic's letter, dated March 3, added: "We are not aware of any means through which the President would personally benefit from a Government lease of this space."
Is it at all possible that they are sub-leasing an apartment?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:07 PM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
Is it at all possible that they are sub-leasing an apartment?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:07 PM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
Another healthcare issue that's overlooked is vision. Maybe not as fatal as other aspects, but if we're going to make people work until theyre 80, how the hell are they supposed to see if they can't get glasses?
posted by Room 641-A at 4:08 PM on May 5, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 4:08 PM on May 5, 2017 [9 favorites]
So, the real life Captain Planet villain running for Representative of my state got caught out praising the AHCA on a GOP conference call.
One, it's good to see that Gianforte continues to have the political acumen of a lemming. It was a similar tape on the sales tax that helped to kill his gubernatorial run, so you would think he'd learn. Nope!
Two, his staffer tried to defuse things by saying that "the candidate was only “thankful” the process of repealing the law was underway." People wanted the process dead! This doesn't solve your problem!
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:11 PM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
One, it's good to see that Gianforte continues to have the political acumen of a lemming. It was a similar tape on the sales tax that helped to kill his gubernatorial run, so you would think he'd learn. Nope!
Two, his staffer tried to defuse things by saying that "the candidate was only “thankful” the process of repealing the law was underway." People wanted the process dead! This doesn't solve your problem!
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:11 PM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
Nyet.
Sputnik denied permanent congressional credentials
Hooray for some sanity
Meanwhile, Laura Ingraham's site LifeZette was approved for a press pass on Friday, Wilson confirmed.
You gotta be fucking kidding me?!
posted by futz at 4:31 PM on May 5, 2017 [9 favorites]
Sputnik denied permanent congressional credentials
Hooray for some sanity
Meanwhile, Laura Ingraham's site LifeZette was approved for a press pass on Friday, Wilson confirmed.
You gotta be fucking kidding me?!
posted by futz at 4:31 PM on May 5, 2017 [9 favorites]
As bad as yesterday was, I take some solace that Donny isn't getting the victory lap he wanted and is whining.
@realDonaldTrump
Wow,the Fake News media did everything in its power to make the Republican Healthcare victory look as bad as possible.Far better than Ocare!
posted by chris24 at 4:39 PM on May 5, 2017 [8 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump
Wow,the Fake News media did everything in its power to make the Republican Healthcare victory look as bad as possible.Far better than Ocare!
posted by chris24 at 4:39 PM on May 5, 2017 [8 favorites]
Just got off the phone with a nice man calling from Connecticut doing the Quipinniac (sp?) Poll. I hope I wasn't the only one who said they were "very dissatisfied" with congress, the health care bill, Trump, north korea, nafta renegotiation and the wall.
I threw also in a "dissatisfied" on Nancy Pelosi for you, Metafilter.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 4:44 PM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
I threw also in a "dissatisfied" on Nancy Pelosi for you, Metafilter.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 4:44 PM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
The AP has it's own version of the Flynn/Kislyak story, with this bombshell buried inside:
posted by zachlipton at 4:51 PM on May 5, 2017 [55 favorites]
The distrust in the other camp was clear months earlier. In late December, as the White House prepared to levy sanctions and oust Russians living in the in the U.S. in retaliation for the hacks, Obama officials did not brief the Trump team on the decision until shortly before it was announced publicly. The timing was chosen in part because they feared the transition team might give Moscow lead time to clear information out of two compounds the U.S. was shuttering, one official said.Copying and removing classified documents from a SCIF is a huge deal. And that first paragraph is a claim that the White House believed the Trump folks would tip off the Russians on a matter of national security.
The officials said, however, they did not withhold information.
The outgoing White House also became concerned about the Trump team’s handling of classified information. After learning that highly sensitive documents from a secure room at the transition’s Washington headquarters were being copied and removed from the facility, Obama’s national security team decided to only allow the transition officials to view some information at the White House, including documents on the government’s contingency plans for crises.
posted by zachlipton at 4:51 PM on May 5, 2017 [55 favorites]
Oh yeah: But her emails.
posted by zachlipton at 4:52 PM on May 5, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 4:52 PM on May 5, 2017 [22 favorites]
Are we ready to start acknowledging that the emails in "but her emails" was a metaphor for her vagina yet?
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:56 PM on May 5, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:56 PM on May 5, 2017 [28 favorites]
It was that but it wasn't just that. With Macron and Le Pen it's the bomb thrower who is female and the sanity candidate is still getting "But his emails."
My take on the 2016 election now that the dust has settled... "It's the propaganda, stupid."
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:04 PM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
My take on the 2016 election now that the dust has settled... "It's the propaganda, stupid."
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:04 PM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
Not related to the dismal state of healthcare in the USA, or even indeed directly related the USA at all, but last week, after a series of delays and bitterly divisive meetings, the city council in my Canadian home town voted to accept a billion-dollar grant from the province to build an LRT (and incidentally cover two hundred million in overdue infrastructure upgrades). One councillor – Arlene VanderBeek, to give her due credit – who had been very publicly undecided ultimately voted in favour, saying, "If you're going to err, err on the side of progress." A useful idea to keep in mind.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:05 PM on May 5, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:05 PM on May 5, 2017 [7 favorites]
Now that the Trump himself is calling it "Ocare", can we now refer to the GOP plan as "Nocare"?
And for a smaller subgroup, "her emails" is a metaphor for "her husband".
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:08 PM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
And for a smaller subgroup, "her emails" is a metaphor for "her husband".
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:08 PM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
The AP has it's own version of the Flynn/Kislyak story
So which version is FAKE NEWS?
posted by futz at 5:08 PM on May 5, 2017
So which version is FAKE NEWS?
posted by futz at 5:08 PM on May 5, 2017
Now that the Trump himself is calling it "Ocare", can we now refer to the GOP plan as "Nocare"?
If you slim down Ocare, you get 0(zero)care. Which is accurate.
posted by Sallysings at 5:12 PM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
If you slim down Ocare, you get 0(zero)care. Which is accurate.
posted by Sallysings at 5:12 PM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
So Trump signed the appropriations act to keep the government running through September 30th, but he attached a signing statement. A few bits bear notice:
Unclear what this means, but it's not good. And:
posted by zachlipton at 5:18 PM on May 5, 2017 [10 favorites]
Division B, section 537 provides that the Department of Justice may not use any funds to prevent implementation of medical marijuana laws by various States and territories. I will treat this provision consistently with my constitutional responsibility to take care that the laws be faithfully executed.
Unclear what this means, but it's not good. And:
My Administration shall treat provisions that allocate benefits on the basis of race, ethnicity, and gender (e.g., Division B, under the heading "Minority Business Development"; Division C, sections 8016, 8021, 8038, and 8042; Division H, under the headings "Departmental Management Salaries and Expenses," "School Improvement Programs," and "Historically Black College and University Capital Financing Program Account"; Division K, under the heading "Native American Housing Block Grants"; and Division K, section 213) in a manner consistent with the requirement to afford equal protection of the laws under the Due Process Clause of the Constitution's Fifth Amendment.Politico has a story on part of this—Trump suggests financing program for historically black colleges may be unconstitutional. The HBCU Capital Program is a 25-year-old fund that provides loan subsidies to the colleges and universities to fund capital improvements. It's unclear whether or how this will be carried out in practice, and it certainly doesn't square with the hoopla he made over HBCUs a few months ago, but it's disturbing.
posted by zachlipton at 5:18 PM on May 5, 2017 [10 favorites]
They're still planning blue state dispensary raids. That's going to happen.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:21 PM on May 5, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:21 PM on May 5, 2017 [12 favorites]
I am shocked, shocked to bring you this report: Macron campaign says it has been the victim of a massive, coordinated hacking operation
So on the one hand, I have to wonder how hard it would be to cut Russia from the net in ways that are deniable even if very obvious. Like physically cutting cables, hacking or otherwise disabling core routers, etc.
And on the other hand, I wonder how effective it would be to start a notionally covert program of attacks against Putin personally -- hacking banks outside Russia where he has his money, physically going after data backups, etc.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:36 PM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
So on the one hand, I have to wonder how hard it would be to cut Russia from the net in ways that are deniable even if very obvious. Like physically cutting cables, hacking or otherwise disabling core routers, etc.
And on the other hand, I wonder how effective it would be to start a notionally covert program of attacks against Putin personally -- hacking banks outside Russia where he has his money, physically going after data backups, etc.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:36 PM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
the Department of Justice may not use any funds to prevent implementation of medical marijuana laws by various States and territories
That sounds like he's telling the DoJ to not interfere with state marijuana laws, right?
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:38 PM on May 5, 2017
That sounds like he's telling the DoJ to not interfere with state marijuana laws, right?
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:38 PM on May 5, 2017
That sounds like he's telling the DoJ to not interfere with state marijuana laws, right?
No. Congress is telling him to back off. Trump is saying it's his constitutional duty to raid the fuck out of blue state dispensaries, Congress be damned.
posted by Talez at 5:40 PM on May 5, 2017 [11 favorites]
No. Congress is telling him to back off. Trump is saying it's his constitutional duty to raid the fuck out of blue state dispensaries, Congress be damned.
posted by Talez at 5:40 PM on May 5, 2017 [11 favorites]
> So on the one hand, I have to wonder how hard it would be to cut Russia from the net in ways that are deniable even if very obvious. Like physically cutting cables, hacking or otherwise disabling core routers, etc.
Admiral Adama was right. Never network the computers.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:41 PM on May 5, 2017 [11 favorites]
Admiral Adama was right. Never network the computers.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:41 PM on May 5, 2017 [11 favorites]
And this is how it's going to go: Trump will just ignore anything he doesn't like, and the Republicans will let him get away with it.
posted by dirigibleman at 5:42 PM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by dirigibleman at 5:42 PM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
Even if it IS supposed to mean that he won't mess with medical marijuana laws, that specific phrasing implies that recreational dispensaries are screwed.
posted by VTX at 5:42 PM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by VTX at 5:42 PM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
Y'all are wrong about church-based charities being able to discriminate against people and only helping nice white christians like themselves. The nice white churches in my small Georgia town help mostly poor black people and hispanics, so how could you ever call these folks racist, my my, bless your heart.
posted by staggering termagant at 5:43 PM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by staggering termagant at 5:43 PM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
I hope I wasn't the only one who said they were "very dissatisfied" with congress, the health care bill, Trump, north korea, nafta renegotiation and the wall. I threw also in a "dissatisfied" on Nancy Pelosi for you, Metafilter.
So I know this wasn't your intent, but... congratulations! You have contributed in some small but direct way to whatever amount of both-sides-ism we see in a week or two. Americans don't like the Republicans, but they also don't like Pelosi and the Democrats so we don't need to talk about why Democrats are in the ascendance or why there's a groundswell of support for Democrats, etc.
I mean, if that's how you feel and you don't like lying to pollsters, then tell them the truth if you want.
But if I'm polled, I will tell you now that I will rabidly hate any and everything Republican while being totally unwilling to criticize anything or anyone Democratic. Anyone with a D by their name is an absolute knight in shining armor swinging their sword +5 Holy Avenger to save us, even the ones I'm actually pissed-off at.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:45 PM on May 5, 2017 [44 favorites]
So I know this wasn't your intent, but... congratulations! You have contributed in some small but direct way to whatever amount of both-sides-ism we see in a week or two. Americans don't like the Republicans, but they also don't like Pelosi and the Democrats so we don't need to talk about why Democrats are in the ascendance or why there's a groundswell of support for Democrats, etc.
I mean, if that's how you feel and you don't like lying to pollsters, then tell them the truth if you want.
But if I'm polled, I will tell you now that I will rabidly hate any and everything Republican while being totally unwilling to criticize anything or anyone Democratic. Anyone with a D by their name is an absolute knight in shining armor swinging their sword +5 Holy Avenger to save us, even the ones I'm actually pissed-off at.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:45 PM on May 5, 2017 [44 favorites]
"Those candidates are gonna be scrutinized within an inch of their lives by opposition, so if they can't handle it from their own party how will they survive it in the general?"
(a) You have to be absolutely perfect to run for office.
(b) Nobody is, even if you had Jesus running for president.
(c) Oppo research is mandatory.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:46 PM on May 5, 2017
(a) You have to be absolutely perfect to run for office.
(b) Nobody is, even if you had Jesus running for president.
(c) Oppo research is mandatory.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:46 PM on May 5, 2017
No. Congress is telling him to back off. Trump is saying it's his constitutional duty to raid the fuck out of blue state dispensaries, Congress be damned.
This seems like the kind of thing that gets much more complicated very quickly and -- like some of the other stuff he's pulled -- depends on there being low-level people who are happy to go to jail or end their careers for him. I'd also be curious to know what happens to protection against personal liability when, by definition, you cannot have been acting as an agent of the Department of Justice or any of its agencies when you conducted that raid and injured someone / destroyed property, because that would have been illegal.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:52 PM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
This seems like the kind of thing that gets much more complicated very quickly and -- like some of the other stuff he's pulled -- depends on there being low-level people who are happy to go to jail or end their careers for him. I'd also be curious to know what happens to protection against personal liability when, by definition, you cannot have been acting as an agent of the Department of Justice or any of its agencies when you conducted that raid and injured someone / destroyed property, because that would have been illegal.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:52 PM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
And this is how it's going to go: Trump will just ignore anything he doesn't like, and the Republicans will let him get away with it.
John Marshall has made his decision; now let him enforce it!
posted by ActingTheGoat at 6:02 PM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
John Marshall has made his decision; now let him enforce it!
posted by ActingTheGoat at 6:02 PM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
One law says marijuana is a schedule 1 substance illegal to possess, state law says, meh, it's fine. Another federal law says no money shall be used to enforce the first, Trump says, I have a duty to enforce it. If he wants to, there'll be plenty of DEA officers only too happy to punch every weed smoking hippy dispensary owner in California, and it'll take years for the courts to sort it all out.
Or more realistically, California is too big and they'll need cooperation of the local agencies, so wide scale raids in a non-cooperative state may not happen, but several smaller ones by the DEA alone very well may just to chill the growth of the industry, assert Republican dominance, and establish test cases they hope to win.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:03 PM on May 5, 2017 [10 favorites]
Or more realistically, California is too big and they'll need cooperation of the local agencies, so wide scale raids in a non-cooperative state may not happen, but several smaller ones by the DEA alone very well may just to chill the growth of the industry, assert Republican dominance, and establish test cases they hope to win.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:03 PM on May 5, 2017 [10 favorites]
If he wants to, there'll be plenty of DEA officers only too happy to punch every weed smoking hippy dispensary owner in California
Maybe. I think federal employees are likely to be pretty leery of directly violating federal law, but ultimately that's an empirical question neither of us can know the answer to yet.
several smaller ones by the DEA alone very well may just to chill the growth of the industry
Opposition to Trump is popular enough that, if those few smaller raids happen, I would halfway expect that someone like Brown would respond by putting state cops and attorneys out to protect (medical) dispensaries and insist on proper warrants, get the warrants quashed because illegal to spend federal money on that, etc.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:13 PM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
Maybe. I think federal employees are likely to be pretty leery of directly violating federal law, but ultimately that's an empirical question neither of us can know the answer to yet.
several smaller ones by the DEA alone very well may just to chill the growth of the industry
Opposition to Trump is popular enough that, if those few smaller raids happen, I would halfway expect that someone like Brown would respond by putting state cops and attorneys out to protect (medical) dispensaries and insist on proper warrants, get the warrants quashed because illegal to spend federal money on that, etc.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:13 PM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
So on the one hand, I have to wonder how hard it would be to cut Russia from the net in ways that are deniable even if very obvious. Like physically cutting cables, hacking or otherwise disabling core routers, etc.
I mean, impossible? They can build links through all of the Warsaw pact nations, and China, and overseas links, and satellite connections, and wireless, and so on.
posted by dis_integration at 6:16 PM on May 5, 2017
I mean, impossible? They can build links through all of the Warsaw pact nations, and China, and overseas links, and satellite connections, and wireless, and so on.
posted by dis_integration at 6:16 PM on May 5, 2017
I would halfway expect that someone like Brown would respond by putting state cops and attorneys out to protect (medical) dispensaries and insist on proper warrants, get the warrants quashed because illegal to spend federal money on that, etc.
And let's not forget that Jerry Brown also served as California's Attorney General. Forget it, Donny, you're out of you're element.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:23 PM on May 5, 2017 [8 favorites]
And let's not forget that Jerry Brown also served as California's Attorney General. Forget it, Donny, you're out of you're element.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:23 PM on May 5, 2017 [8 favorites]
several smaller ones by the DEA alone very well may just to chill the growth of the industry
If I was to put on my evil thinking cap I could probably imagine a few ways that a certain dipshit with ties to the mafia and money launderers could use pressure from the DOJ to enrich himself from a cash-only cash-cow industry. Trump, with his understanding of history, probably doesn't see a problem with the corruption that alcohol prohibition promoted. He'd probably say Al Capone, like Kim Jong-un and Saddam Hussein, was a tough, tough guy.
posted by peeedro at 6:30 PM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
If I was to put on my evil thinking cap I could probably imagine a few ways that a certain dipshit with ties to the mafia and money launderers could use pressure from the DOJ to enrich himself from a cash-only cash-cow industry. Trump, with his understanding of history, probably doesn't see a problem with the corruption that alcohol prohibition promoted. He'd probably say Al Capone, like Kim Jong-un and Saddam Hussein, was a tough, tough guy.
posted by peeedro at 6:30 PM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
I have so many friends who are scientists and who really will be taking Emannuel Macron's offer at face value and applying for jobs France if he wins.
posted by ocschwar at 6:34 PM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by ocschwar at 6:34 PM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
okay for reals though it is sick and wrong that "donald trump and jerry brown start a civil war over weed" is a scenario we have to consider as possible. it's like something out of an indie comic book from the early 80s.
oh good lord did we slide into the Watchmen universe? is that what's happened?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 6:34 PM on May 5, 2017 [35 favorites]
oh good lord did we slide into the Watchmen universe? is that what's happened?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 6:34 PM on May 5, 2017 [35 favorites]
How much money has Donald made selling overpriced alcohol at Mar-a-Lago and all his Tower restaurants? I doubt he sees himself profiting nearly as well on recreational weed, so I doubt he'll be on the right side on this.
And I'm not even sure about Jerry Brown; he's currently holding back any support to the "CaliforniaCare" single player plan, and I remember when Young Jerry disappointed us all in not fighting Proposition 13 and the "tax revolt". I'd more likely wait for Gubernatorial Heir Apparent Gavin Newsom.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:43 PM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
And I'm not even sure about Jerry Brown; he's currently holding back any support to the "CaliforniaCare" single player plan, and I remember when Young Jerry disappointed us all in not fighting Proposition 13 and the "tax revolt". I'd more likely wait for Gubernatorial Heir Apparent Gavin Newsom.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:43 PM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
Pelosi delivered a budget deal that gives Dems like 75% of what we wanted despite having no actual control over any branch of government or House of Congress, and also held her caucus firm and delivered not a single yes vote on the AHCA. If that's "unsatisfying" because she didn't literally set herself on fire on the steps of the Capital like those monks during Vietnam, well, I don't know what to say.
I'm with Xenophobe here. If I get polled anything that even vaguely smacks of Republicanism will get a rating just south of Satan himself and anything with a D next to its name will be rated higher than a basket full of golden retriever puppies who also work a soup kitchen for the homeless on Sundays.
posted by Justinian at 7:33 PM on May 5, 2017 [63 favorites]
I'm with Xenophobe here. If I get polled anything that even vaguely smacks of Republicanism will get a rating just south of Satan himself and anything with a D next to its name will be rated higher than a basket full of golden retriever puppies who also work a soup kitchen for the homeless on Sundays.
posted by Justinian at 7:33 PM on May 5, 2017 [63 favorites]
The Onion not holding back on the AHCA.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:44 PM on May 5, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 7:44 PM on May 5, 2017 [27 favorites]
I didn't see this here:
NYT via Uproxx: The Senate Has Asked Several Trump Associates To Cough Up Their Russian Communication Records And Emails
posted by Room 641-A at 8:04 PM on May 5, 2017 [7 favorites]
NYT via Uproxx: The Senate Has Asked Several Trump Associates To Cough Up Their Russian Communication Records And Emails
Among those who said they had received the requests were Roger J. Stone, an informal adviser to President Trump, and Carter Page, a businessman and former foreign policy adviser to the Trump campaign. Paul Manafort, the former campaign chairman, and Michael T. Flynn, the former national security adviser, were also sent letters, said the officials with knowledge of the investigation. Representatives for both men declined to commentMy bldg manager called today to tell me I could have my crappy carpet replaced with new wood laminate floors YAY! But no, they can't come out Monday morning to measure because Sally Yates.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:04 PM on May 5, 2017 [7 favorites]
oh good lord did we slide into the Watchmen universe? is that what's happened?
I'd be having a lot more fun with this dystopia if it happened 15 years ago when I was a young'un and into comics.
posted by ocschwar at 8:11 PM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'd be having a lot more fun with this dystopia if it happened 15 years ago when I was a young'un and into comics.
posted by ocschwar at 8:11 PM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
ELECTIONS NEWS
** GA-06
** GA-06
-- More polling numbers:** MT-AL
Dem internal:Ossoff 50Landmark:
Handel 48
Undec 2Handel 49.1Basically, it's clearly very, very close. If you want to play the tea leaves game, it's interesting we're seeing Dem internals leak, but not GOP internals, but there's no reason to not think this one is neck and neck.
Ossoff 46.5
Undec 4.4
-- Lots of news in this WaPo story:** 2018 midterms* Pence is coming out next week to stump for Gianforte, possibly DJT Jr., too.-- Possible scandal developing on Gianforte's AHCA stance. He's kind of fudged his support to voters, but came out pretty full-throated in support on a leaked call with lobbyists.
* GOP says their lead is in single digits.
* Former GOP rep Rehberg says Dems have the better ground game.
-- NYT: AHCA vote could scramble who the vulnerable GOP members are.posted by Chrysostom at 8:18 PM on May 5, 2017 [14 favorites]
-- Cook Political changes ratings in 20 districts, all towards Dems. 25 GOP seats are now "Lean Republican" or less.
I don't understand. I was led to believe during the election that the #1 issue facing the nation was how federal politicians handle classified information and record preservation. Yet here we are in May, with an article stating that the President's staff mishandled classified information, and a special Congressional committee has not yet been established, nor have entire front pages of newspapers been devoted to these issues that are clearly of the highest interest to the public.
I'm beginning to think this wasn't on the up-and-up.
posted by zachlipton at 8:18 PM on May 5, 2017 [87 favorites]
I'm beginning to think this wasn't on the up-and-up.
posted by zachlipton at 8:18 PM on May 5, 2017 [87 favorites]
I had a vivid dream last night that Hillary Clinton had won the election and was pretty bummed when I woke up.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:27 PM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 8:27 PM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
"Welp, healthcare bill passed the House! Reminder that things like coverage for pre-existing conditions and subsidizing healthcare for the poor poll in the 80s among REPUBLICAN voters. Nearly 70% of voters oppose the tax cuts on the wealthy this will fund, too. Something is deeply rotten in a country that is going to steal vital care from cancer patients to fund massive giveaways to millionaires, but what's rotten is not our fellow ordinary citizens; they hate this bill. (What's rotten is the rich.)" - Michael Kinnucan
posted by Joseph Gurl at 8:43 PM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Joseph Gurl at 8:43 PM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
zachlipton: And it's worse than that! This isn't even the first or second case where it looks like someone in the Trump campaign or administration mishandled classified information! It's like maybe all that worry about Clinton's supposed carelessness with classified information was not exactly the real worry.
posted by R343L at 8:53 PM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by R343L at 8:53 PM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
We're all gleefully calling out the fascists for the fascists that they are.
I'm wondering, though, if we (collectively) should be back going after their corporate masters, regardless of whether the fascist puppets know that fact, instead?
Cyberpunk was pretty prescient (well, or merely just forward thinking cynically since the 1980's).
Fascism and Corporatism are bastard cousins by the same father.
posted by porpoise at 8:53 PM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm wondering, though, if we (collectively) should be back going after their corporate masters, regardless of whether the fascist puppets know that fact, instead?
Cyberpunk was pretty prescient (well, or merely just forward thinking cynically since the 1980's).
Fascism and Corporatism are bastard cousins by the same father.
posted by porpoise at 8:53 PM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's been six months. Six fucking months.
I nearly had an emotional meltdown after work last week because my manager decided (without my input) to hire a male backup for one of my projects. Because what I learned in November is that there is nothing that I, as a woman, can do that a brash man won't get handed on a platter.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 9:00 PM on May 5, 2017 [22 favorites]
I nearly had an emotional meltdown after work last week because my manager decided (without my input) to hire a male backup for one of my projects. Because what I learned in November is that there is nothing that I, as a woman, can do that a brash man won't get handed on a platter.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 9:00 PM on May 5, 2017 [22 favorites]
> I'm wondering, though, if we (collectively) should be back going after their corporate masters, regardless of whether the fascist puppets know that fact, instead?
okay my preferred method of going about going after their corporate masters is a mass debt strike what's yours.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:01 PM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
okay my preferred method of going about going after their corporate masters is a mass debt strike what's yours.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:01 PM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
Is that like organized group bankruptcy?
posted by rhizome at 9:09 PM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by rhizome at 9:09 PM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
I mean, could a bunch of people "murder" a bank with bankruptcies?
posted by rhizome at 9:10 PM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 9:10 PM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
okay my preferred method of going about going after their corporate masters is a mass debt strike what's yours.
I really wish this would happen, with both credit card and student loan debt. But I have selfish reasons of course. In any case, you don't owe them anything, they got their money for free and paid for it with your money. The real atlas shrugging should be my whole generation, shrugging off the debt burden.
posted by dis_integration at 9:12 PM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
I really wish this would happen, with both credit card and student loan debt. But I have selfish reasons of course. In any case, you don't owe them anything, they got their money for free and paid for it with your money. The real atlas shrugging should be my whole generation, shrugging off the debt burden.
posted by dis_integration at 9:12 PM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
> I really wish this would happen, with both credit card and student loan debt. But I have selfish reasons of course.
selfish reasons aside — not that selfish reasons aren't good! — the idea is that the economic crisis provoked by the disruption of income streams based on that debt would be like a high-speed rerun of the subprime mortgage crisis, and could be an opportunity to nationalize banks in exchange for bailouts. it's a way to you know seize the commanding heights of the economy or whatever.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:17 PM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
selfish reasons aside — not that selfish reasons aren't good! — the idea is that the economic crisis provoked by the disruption of income streams based on that debt would be like a high-speed rerun of the subprime mortgage crisis, and could be an opportunity to nationalize banks in exchange for bailouts. it's a way to you know seize the commanding heights of the economy or whatever.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:17 PM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
What is it with politicians from Wasilla?
Rep. Eastman: Some women ‘glad’ to be pregnant for Medicaid-funded travel for abortions
-- “I can think of a case that was brought to our attention earlier this session where you had a family who was very glad to hear that their abortion had gone beyond a certain point, because they were going to be heading to Seattle,” Eastman said.
-- “You have individuals who are in villages and are glad to be pregnant, so that they can have an abortion because there’s a free trip to Anchorage involved,” Eastman said.
Same fucking asshole:
Alaska lawmakers mull measure calling abortion ‘child abuse’
A conservative state lawmaker has successfully tacked an anti-abortion message onto an otherwise innocuous resolution in the Alaska House aimed at raising awareness about sexual assault and child abuse.
The amendment from Republican Rep. David Eastman of Wasilla refers to abortion as “the ultimate form of child abuse.” He said it would be wrong to discuss child abuse without mentioning abortion. The amendment was approved by a divided House Rules Committee
★ A teeny tiny bit of good news...
Iowa Supreme Court halts state's new abortion restrictions
The Iowa Supreme Court issued an emergency order Friday halting the enforcement of a new state law requiring a 72-hour waiting period for women seeking an abortion.
Gov. Terry Branstad signed Senate File 471 at 8:30 a.m. Friday. The state's highest court responded less two hours later by granting a temporary injunction...
...In addition to a waiting period, the law will require women to make two trips to a doctor to obtain an abortion, the organization [Planned Parenthood] said.
The Iowa attorney general's lawyers said the U.S. Supreme Court has made it clear there is no right to "abortion on demand." [...] Nothing suggests the 44 women scheduled to receive abortions [...] would have faced any harm under the new law other than having to reschedule their appointments, the state's lawyers said.
But Suzanna de Baca, chief executive officer of Planned Parenthood of the Heartland, said the two-hour period between the time Branstad signed the law and when the temporary injunction was issued wreaked havoc on many patients’ lives.
"One woman had driven seven hours to her appointment, only to be told she couldn’t have the procedure today; others were angry and upset at the intrusion into their lives," de Baca said.
The reason I emphasized a "teeny tiny bit" is because the law still allows for:
However, it does not include exemptions for pregnancies resulting from rape or incest, or for pregnancies in which a genetic anomaly makes life after birth impossible.
The new law has been described as imposing some of the strictest requirements in the nation on women seeking an abortion.
posted by futz at 9:22 PM on May 5, 2017 [16 favorites]
Rep. Eastman: Some women ‘glad’ to be pregnant for Medicaid-funded travel for abortions
-- “I can think of a case that was brought to our attention earlier this session where you had a family who was very glad to hear that their abortion had gone beyond a certain point, because they were going to be heading to Seattle,” Eastman said.
-- “You have individuals who are in villages and are glad to be pregnant, so that they can have an abortion because there’s a free trip to Anchorage involved,” Eastman said.
Same fucking asshole:
Alaska lawmakers mull measure calling abortion ‘child abuse’
A conservative state lawmaker has successfully tacked an anti-abortion message onto an otherwise innocuous resolution in the Alaska House aimed at raising awareness about sexual assault and child abuse.
The amendment from Republican Rep. David Eastman of Wasilla refers to abortion as “the ultimate form of child abuse.” He said it would be wrong to discuss child abuse without mentioning abortion. The amendment was approved by a divided House Rules Committee
★ A teeny tiny bit of good news...
Iowa Supreme Court halts state's new abortion restrictions
The Iowa Supreme Court issued an emergency order Friday halting the enforcement of a new state law requiring a 72-hour waiting period for women seeking an abortion.
Gov. Terry Branstad signed Senate File 471 at 8:30 a.m. Friday. The state's highest court responded less two hours later by granting a temporary injunction...
...In addition to a waiting period, the law will require women to make two trips to a doctor to obtain an abortion, the organization [Planned Parenthood] said.
The Iowa attorney general's lawyers said the U.S. Supreme Court has made it clear there is no right to "abortion on demand." [...] Nothing suggests the 44 women scheduled to receive abortions [...] would have faced any harm under the new law other than having to reschedule their appointments, the state's lawyers said.
But Suzanna de Baca, chief executive officer of Planned Parenthood of the Heartland, said the two-hour period between the time Branstad signed the law and when the temporary injunction was issued wreaked havoc on many patients’ lives.
"One woman had driven seven hours to her appointment, only to be told she couldn’t have the procedure today; others were angry and upset at the intrusion into their lives," de Baca said.
The reason I emphasized a "teeny tiny bit" is because the law still allows for:
However, it does not include exemptions for pregnancies resulting from rape or incest, or for pregnancies in which a genetic anomaly makes life after birth impossible.
The new law has been described as imposing some of the strictest requirements in the nation on women seeking an abortion.
posted by futz at 9:22 PM on May 5, 2017 [16 favorites]
Charles Pierce, Esquire: Were You Invited to the Party in Washington Today?
Goddamn them all. Goddamn the political movement that spawned them and goddamn the political party in which that movement found a home, and goddamn the infrastructure in which their pus-bag of an ideology was allowed to fester until it splattered the plague all over the government. Goddamn anyone who believes that blind, genetic luck is a demonstration of divine design. Goddamn anyone who believes in a god who hands out disease as punishment. Goddamn anyone who stays behind the walls and dances while the plague comes back again.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:28 PM on May 5, 2017 [39 favorites]
And if the Democratic Party can't reduce these idiots to smoking ash through the stunning visuals that greeted this atrocious vote, then goddamn the Democratic Party, too.
oh good lord did we slide into the Watchmen universe? is that what's happened?
Close! It's American Flagg!
posted by octobersurprise at 9:29 PM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
Close! It's American Flagg!
posted by octobersurprise at 9:29 PM on May 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
Frequent Fox Business ‘Expert’ Arrested for Felony Fraud and Embezzlement
This isn't particularly shocking, but all of a sudden I feel like I'm in the Matrix and glowing, green bits and bytes are falling all around me but it doesn't seem to make a difference.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:49 PM on May 5, 2017 [12 favorites]
This isn't particularly shocking, but all of a sudden I feel like I'm in the Matrix and glowing, green bits and bytes are falling all around me but it doesn't seem to make a difference.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:49 PM on May 5, 2017 [12 favorites]
welcome to the desert of the real.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:51 PM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:51 PM on May 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
The thing is the dems will never win unless they emotionally connect with voters. I would think that the potential of millions of people dying because they don't have healthcare would be enough but I also thought that after Sandy Hook gun control might be a possibility so I'm clearly out of it.
posted by TheLateGreatAbrahamLincoln at 9:51 PM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by TheLateGreatAbrahamLincoln at 9:51 PM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
Zeynep Tufekci: Dear France: You Just Got Hacked. Don’t Make The Same Mistakes We Did.
Ooh, la la. So, it happened to you, too. The frontrunning presidential candidate got hacked, all his emails are dumped online in one giant cache. WikiLeaks is tweeting about it. There is a hashtag. 4chan’s /pol/ is all over it. Screenshots purporting to show corruption and secret bank transfers are going viral. The meme wars are on.posted by zachlipton at 9:52 PM on May 5, 2017 [13 favorites]
This is a plea: do not get played the way the US press got played, gullibly falling into the trap set for them. And don’t ignore what happens online. These hacks are merely the stage for the misinformation machine.
I really wish this would happen, with both credit card and student loan debt. But I have selfish reasons of course. In any case, you don't owe them anything, they got their money for free and paid for it with your money.
So, at least for student loans, that money never existed. The federal government is the lender in the vast, vast majority of the student loan market, and the government conjures however much money needed to cover student loans in a given year out of thin air. That's handed straight to colleges with very few limits, which is why there's been an explosion in both tuition costs and dubious for profit schools over the past 20-25 years. There's no real limits on cost because the only one on the hook is ultimately the government, and the borrower of course. And the government has the ultimate in collections authority, they're the only ones that can garnish tax returns and even Social Security benefits.
A debt strike as to student loans would do basically nothing, except maybe harm some intermediary servicing companies in the short term. The schools already got paid. The government has an infinite time horizon and infinite ability to collect, they will be repaid, eventually. Or if not, it doesn't really matter that much other than a notational figure added to the national debt which becomes another Republican talking point. The only one who stands to lose anything is the borrower who's striking for...?
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:05 PM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
So, at least for student loans, that money never existed. The federal government is the lender in the vast, vast majority of the student loan market, and the government conjures however much money needed to cover student loans in a given year out of thin air. That's handed straight to colleges with very few limits, which is why there's been an explosion in both tuition costs and dubious for profit schools over the past 20-25 years. There's no real limits on cost because the only one on the hook is ultimately the government, and the borrower of course. And the government has the ultimate in collections authority, they're the only ones that can garnish tax returns and even Social Security benefits.
A debt strike as to student loans would do basically nothing, except maybe harm some intermediary servicing companies in the short term. The schools already got paid. The government has an infinite time horizon and infinite ability to collect, they will be repaid, eventually. Or if not, it doesn't really matter that much other than a notational figure added to the national debt which becomes another Republican talking point. The only one who stands to lose anything is the borrower who's striking for...?
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:05 PM on May 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
The thing is the dems will never win unless they
turn left
posted by Joseph Gurl at 10:08 PM on May 5, 2017 [11 favorites]
turn left
posted by Joseph Gurl at 10:08 PM on May 5, 2017 [11 favorites]
> So, at least for student loans, that money never existed. The federal government is the lender in the vast, vast majority of the student loan market, and the government conjures however much money needed to cover student loans in a given year out of thin air.
As I broad-strokes understand it (which is to say, as I don't understand it at all) the point of mass action against specifically student loan debt is messing with the market in student loan asset based securities. but yeah to be effective, a debt strike would have to be much larger than just a student loan debt strike.
(also though from a class-analysis perspective student loan strikes, rather than generalized debt strikes, are sort of problematic in that student loan debt is a disproportionately middle-class rather than working-class phenomenon when compared to other types of debt.)
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:14 PM on May 5, 2017
As I broad-strokes understand it (which is to say, as I don't understand it at all) the point of mass action against specifically student loan debt is messing with the market in student loan asset based securities. but yeah to be effective, a debt strike would have to be much larger than just a student loan debt strike.
(also though from a class-analysis perspective student loan strikes, rather than generalized debt strikes, are sort of problematic in that student loan debt is a disproportionately middle-class rather than working-class phenomenon when compared to other types of debt.)
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:14 PM on May 5, 2017
The Macron campaign posted a video that consists solely of clips of people on US news shows saying that Clinton was definitely going to win followed by the tagline "le pire n'est pas impossible. Votez," which I'm told means "The worst is not impossible. Vote." Pretty amazing ad.
posted by zachlipton at 10:55 PM on May 5, 2017 [31 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 10:55 PM on May 5, 2017 [31 favorites]
Scare tactics, eh? I guess it fits--one more way in which the neoliberals jauntily emulate the right.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 11:15 PM on May 5, 2017
posted by Joseph Gurl at 11:15 PM on May 5, 2017
Speaking of voting, for all my fellow Texans, tomorrow, Saturday, most counties are having elections of some sort. Some, like mine are bog standard bonds, but there are a ton of school board, utility board, city council type elections. I know y'all have your voting id's in order, so brush em off and air them out while doing your civil duty.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 12:19 AM on May 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 12:19 AM on May 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
Nothing to see here. Please skip to next comment.
Saudi Arabia, U.S. in talks on billions in arms sales: U.S. sources
Washington is working to push through contracts for tens of billions of dollars in arms sales to Saudi Arabia, some new, others in the pipeline, ahead of U.S. President Donald Trump's trip to the kingdom this month, people familiar with the talks told Reuters this week.
FLURRY OF ACTIVITY
One of the people with knowledge of the sales said that as planning for Trump's trip to Saudi Arabia intensified in recent weeks, the arms negotiations also accelerated.
Yes, I know that we have a long relationship with Saudi Arabia, selling them weapons/aircraft/other warfare supplies, in spite of the fact that 19 terrorists from their country attacked the US.
How about we use some of this dirty money to fund healthcare? That would be nifty! Regarding the "flurry of activity', what is the "win" that the deplorables in the WH are looking for? Will they sell this as a fight against ISIS or is it something else?
-- Versions of the ship used by the U.S. Navy, the Littoral Combat Ship, are built by Bethesda, Maryland-based weapons maker Lockheed Martin and Australia's Austal Ltd (ASB.AX).
Hmm, Turnbill met with trump today right? Could mean absolutely nothing or it could be that trump is Turnbill's BAE or vice versa? BAE Systems PLC
posted by futz at 12:41 AM on May 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
Saudi Arabia, U.S. in talks on billions in arms sales: U.S. sources
Washington is working to push through contracts for tens of billions of dollars in arms sales to Saudi Arabia, some new, others in the pipeline, ahead of U.S. President Donald Trump's trip to the kingdom this month, people familiar with the talks told Reuters this week.
FLURRY OF ACTIVITY
One of the people with knowledge of the sales said that as planning for Trump's trip to Saudi Arabia intensified in recent weeks, the arms negotiations also accelerated.
Yes, I know that we have a long relationship with Saudi Arabia, selling them weapons/aircraft/other warfare supplies, in spite of the fact that 19 terrorists from their country attacked the US.
How about we use some of this dirty money to fund healthcare? That would be nifty! Regarding the "flurry of activity', what is the "win" that the deplorables in the WH are looking for? Will they sell this as a fight against ISIS or is it something else?
-- Versions of the ship used by the U.S. Navy, the Littoral Combat Ship, are built by Bethesda, Maryland-based weapons maker Lockheed Martin and Australia's Austal Ltd (ASB.AX).
Hmm, Turnbill met with trump today right? Could mean absolutely nothing or it could be that trump is Turnbill's BAE or vice versa? BAE Systems PLC
posted by futz at 12:41 AM on May 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
Sorry, but could you rephrase the "could be that trump is Turnbill's BAE or vice versa?" question? Whoosh.
posted by christopherious at 1:23 AM on May 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by christopherious at 1:23 AM on May 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oh, maybe you meant bae, a word that made my 20-year-old cringe when, a few years back, I asked her if she actually ever used it. :)
posted by christopherious at 2:04 AM on May 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by christopherious at 2:04 AM on May 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Scare tactics, eh? I guess it fits--one more way in which the neoliberals jauntily emulate the right.
Oh ffs, if you want to call a cautionary tale 'scare tactics' fine, but then explain how Sarandon and others on the left saying Clinton is worse than Trump is different. One is 'watch out or we'll get Trump', the other is 'watch out or we'll get even worse than Trump.' The left has no special morality in political messaging.
posted by chris24 at 2:47 AM on May 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
Oh ffs, if you want to call a cautionary tale 'scare tactics' fine, but then explain how Sarandon and others on the left saying Clinton is worse than Trump is different. One is 'watch out or we'll get Trump', the other is 'watch out or we'll get even worse than Trump.' The left has no special morality in political messaging.
posted by chris24 at 2:47 AM on May 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
Boston Globe: The state budget is cratering. Blame Trump’s tax cuts
The mere prospect of falling tax rates has already started changing people’s behavior, encouraging them to hold stocks a bit longer or claim their income a bit later. And that’s wreaking havoc across state budgets, including in Ohio, Connecticut, and Pennsylvania.posted by XMLicious at 3:00 AM on May 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
Say you have a lot of money in the stock market. You don’t pay taxes on those investments until you sell your shares and pocket the gains. So if you believe that the tax rate on investment income is going to fall — as it would under Trump’s plan, at least for high-income families — then it makes sense to refrain from selling until the tax plan is enacted.
Alternatively, imagine you’re an independent contractor or a small business owner. Then your incentive to defer income is even stronger. That’s because Trump’s plan would cut the top tax rate for closely held businesses from a maximum 39.6 percent to just 15 percent. So rather than send out invoices in December 2016, maybe you wait until 2017 on the unlikely-but-potentially-transformative possibility that his tax changes kick in this year.
These are oversimplified examples. But there are good reasons to think that taxpayers really are seeking creative ways to defer their tax bills, and draining state coffers in the process.
The last two days I've sent Pence a message via his VP.gov site. This is what I sent him today:
[But it shall come about if you do not obey the LORD YOUR GOD, to observe to do all HIS commandments and HIS statutes with which I charge you today that all these curses will come upon you and over take you: "Cursed shall you be in the city and cursed shall you be in the country."
Tell me how you reconcile the cruelty you yield with the power of the Executive branch upon the less fortunate. Upon women and children of our community. How do you claim to follow the word of Jesus Christ? You actions betray you to for all to see. You STAND next to a man who is a hollow shell of selfish vanity while your claims of a Christian foundation ring false. Are you too a hollow shell? That is what your actions in this position display.]
I googled bible quotes about cruelty and I'm probably doing int wrong, but hopefully that's a dig too. Anyone have any good bible quotes I can send to Pence about false leaders, liars? I looking to learn. I think this is something I could do almost daily until I can vote the republican closest to me OUT.
posted by dog food sugar at 3:56 AM on May 6, 2017 [19 favorites]
[But it shall come about if you do not obey the LORD YOUR GOD, to observe to do all HIS commandments and HIS statutes with which I charge you today that all these curses will come upon you and over take you: "Cursed shall you be in the city and cursed shall you be in the country."
Tell me how you reconcile the cruelty you yield with the power of the Executive branch upon the less fortunate. Upon women and children of our community. How do you claim to follow the word of Jesus Christ? You actions betray you to for all to see. You STAND next to a man who is a hollow shell of selfish vanity while your claims of a Christian foundation ring false. Are you too a hollow shell? That is what your actions in this position display.]
I googled bible quotes about cruelty and I'm probably doing int wrong, but hopefully that's a dig too. Anyone have any good bible quotes I can send to Pence about false leaders, liars? I looking to learn. I think this is something I could do almost daily until I can vote the republican closest to me OUT.
posted by dog food sugar at 3:56 AM on May 6, 2017 [19 favorites]
if you want to call a cautionary tale 'scare tactics' fine, but then explain how Sarandon and others on the left saying Clinton is worse than Trump is different
Something something McCarthyism something something nothing to see here something something neoliberalism.
I wish Le Pen (Agnes B, 875$) and Putin (Karl Lagerfeld, 3,999$) would sit down for a talk with GQ. Maybe lefties would be a little less forgiving, then.
posted by octobersurprise at 4:01 AM on May 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
Something something McCarthyism something something nothing to see here something something neoliberalism.
I wish Le Pen (Agnes B, 875$) and Putin (Karl Lagerfeld, 3,999$) would sit down for a talk with GQ. Maybe lefties would be a little less forgiving, then.
posted by octobersurprise at 4:01 AM on May 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
This Guardian interview between a reluctant Macron voter and her abstain voter cousin feels way too disturbingly familiar.
It's like when you see someone dating a jerk who exhibits the same signs of an asshole you dated and dumped years ago, but you know all your lived experience can't make them choose the safest possible choice until it's too late and a lot of damage has been done. Pointing to other recent examples of how an abstain strategy doesn't lead to Just Add Water Instant Leftist Revolution can't match the purity test of someone who won't vote for the centrist but sure hopes other people vote in a way that keeps the fascist out.
(I say all this as a Jacobin subscribing Bernie supporter who openly weeps whenever Warren is on TV but who gladly voted for Clinton last fall because I knew how high the stakes were.)
posted by mostly vowels at 4:43 AM on May 6, 2017 [29 favorites]
It's like when you see someone dating a jerk who exhibits the same signs of an asshole you dated and dumped years ago, but you know all your lived experience can't make them choose the safest possible choice until it's too late and a lot of damage has been done. Pointing to other recent examples of how an abstain strategy doesn't lead to Just Add Water Instant Leftist Revolution can't match the purity test of someone who won't vote for the centrist but sure hopes other people vote in a way that keeps the fascist out.
(I say all this as a Jacobin subscribing Bernie supporter who openly weeps whenever Warren is on TV but who gladly voted for Clinton last fall because I knew how high the stakes were.)
posted by mostly vowels at 4:43 AM on May 6, 2017 [29 favorites]
Rep. Sean Patrick Maloney was on Rachel Maddow last night and he has what I think is a brilliant idea: if Republican Representatives refuse to hold town halls and explain why they voted yes on this healthcare bill and what exactly is in the bill, then Democratic Reps should show up and explain it for them.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:51 AM on May 6, 2017 [69 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:51 AM on May 6, 2017 [69 favorites]
I already tweeted at my rep to do so- our district borders Frelinghuysen's district, I think it's time to show those folks what real representation looks like.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 4:54 AM on May 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 4:54 AM on May 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
Hello from the pits of democracy: I'm suiting up as an observer /alternate delegate for the DSA NYC convention where we establish our consitution and elect people and this is my idea of a fun Saturday now.
posted by The Whelk at 5:00 AM on May 6, 2017 [41 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 5:00 AM on May 6, 2017 [41 favorites]
Looks like nobody's mentioned Mike Huckabee's Cinco de Mayo statement, which has solidified his destiny as the next president of the united states.
@GovMikeHuckabee
For Cinco de Mayo I will drink an entire jar of hot salsa and watch old Speedy Gonzales cartoons and speak Spanish all day. Happy CdMayo!
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:08 AM on May 6, 2017 [25 favorites]
@GovMikeHuckabee
For Cinco de Mayo I will drink an entire jar of hot salsa and watch old Speedy Gonzales cartoons and speak Spanish all day. Happy CdMayo!
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:08 AM on May 6, 2017 [25 favorites]
Rep. Sean Patrick Maloney was on Rachel Maddow last night and he has what I think is a brilliant idea: if Republican Representatives refuse to hold town halls and explain why they voted yes on this healthcare bill and what exactly is in the bill, then Democratic Reps should show up and explain it for them.
Maybe with a prospective 2018 candidate sharing the stage.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 5:10 AM on May 6, 2017 [15 favorites]
Maybe with a prospective 2018 candidate sharing the stage.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 5:10 AM on May 6, 2017 [15 favorites]
Versions of the ship used by the U.S. Navy, the Littoral Combat Ship, are built by Bethesda, Maryland-based weapons maker Lockheed Martin and Australia's Austal Ltd. If a deal goes through, it would be the first sale of a new small surface warship to a foreign power in decades.
Also, if they're interested, we can restart the AMC Gremlin production line
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:50 AM on May 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
Also, if they're interested, we can restart the AMC Gremlin production line
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:50 AM on May 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
Emily Rauhala, WaPo: In a Beijing ballroom, Kushner family flogs $500,000 ‘investor visa’ to wealthy Chinese
Grifters gonna grift. They kinda buried the lede, however:
Grifters gonna grift. They kinda buried the lede, however:
Although there was no visible reference to Trump, the materials noted the Kushner family’s “celebrity” status. Wang Yun, a Chinese investor who attended the event, said the Kushner family’s ties to Trump, via son-in-law Jared, were a part of the project’s appeal — but also a source of concern.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:43 AM on May 6, 2017 [23 favorites]
“Even though this is the project of the son-in-law’s family, of course it is still affiliated,” Wang.
Wang reasoned that the link to Trump would be a boon if the presidency goes well but could be disastrous if it does not: “We heard that there are rumors that he is the most likely to be impeached president in American history. That’s why I doubt this project.”
From the same story:
Journalists were initially seated at the back of the ballroom, but as the presentations got underway, a public relations representative asked The Post to leave, saying the presence of foreign reporters threatened the “stability” of the event.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:45 AM on May 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
At one point, organizers grabbed a reporter’s phone and backpack to try to force that person to leave. Later, as investors started leaving the ballroom, organizers physically surrounded attendees to stop them from giving interviews.
Asked why reporters were asked to leave, a public relations representative, who declined to identify herself, said simply, “This is not the story we want.”
If you know some younger men who think they are going to get cheaper health premiums under AHCA, you might want to point out that having a medical marijuana card to treat either a real or an imaginary condition is probably a pre-existing condition that could dump them into the high risk pool in perpetuity. And don't say "probably". After checkining my premise, maybe we can make some noise on social media, like reddit, because we need the largest possible pool of allies.
posted by puddledork at 7:03 AM on May 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by puddledork at 7:03 AM on May 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
Michelle Ye Hee Lee, WaPo: Despite critics’ claims, the GOP health bill doesn’t classify rape or sexual assault as a preexisting condition
The notion that AHCA classifies rape or sexual assault as a preexisting condition, or that survivors would be denied coverage, is false.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:04 AM on May 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
At least 45 states prohibit insurance discrimination like this. Then, it takes several leaps of imagination to assume that survivors of rape and sexual assault will face higher premiums as a result of conditions relating to their abuse. A person would need to be in the individual or small-group market (most Americans under 65 are on employer-provided plans), in a state that sought waivers, and in one of two to five states that did not prohibit insurance-company discrimination against survivors of sexual abuse.
In other words, this claim relies on so many factors — including unknown decisions by a handful of states and insurance companies — that this talking point becomes almost meaningless.
IOW: it CAN be classified as a pre-existing condition but nobody knows yet if it will be.
Huh. A major bill that completely overhauls healthcare for most of us, which was snuck through Congress before anyone could get a real idea of what was in the bill and what it could mean for Americans, turns out to be complicated and not thoroughly understood. Personally I think Dems should "explain" this bill in the worst light possible-- don't lie but don't give the bill and the Repubs who passed it any leeway or benefit of the doubt.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:18 AM on May 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
Huh. A major bill that completely overhauls healthcare for most of us, which was snuck through Congress before anyone could get a real idea of what was in the bill and what it could mean for Americans, turns out to be complicated and not thoroughly understood. Personally I think Dems should "explain" this bill in the worst light possible-- don't lie but don't give the bill and the Repubs who passed it any leeway or benefit of the doubt.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:18 AM on May 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
TPM; House GOPer Tells Agencies To Exclude Committee Comms From FOIA Requests
In a series of letters, Rep. Jeb Hensarling of Texas said communications the agencies had with members of his panel and committee staff should not be released, arguing that it often includes sensitive and confidential information.[...]posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:22 AM on May 6, 2017 [17 favorites]
The committee’s top Democrat, Rep. Maxine Waters of California, said Hensarling for years has made what she described as “intrusive and aggressive demands of agencies,” citing his request of more than 150,000 pages of documents from the Consumer Financial Protection Agency.
“Anytime he’s called on it, he says that Congress has the right to conduct oversight. And while Congress does have that right, it is the height of hypocrisy for him to take such extraordinary measures to shield himself from the oversight of the American public,” Waters said. “People should ask themselves: What is he trying to hide?”
In other words, this claim relies on so many factors
The "claim" also relies on the personal experience of rape and abuse survivors who tried to get insurance before the ACA. We don't have to imagine what that world looks like. It already existed before 2010. Maybe state laws now prohibit using sexual assault as a denial reason, but they can just use things like the ptsd, anxiety, depression, STDs, or pregnancy that result from the sexual assault as a reason for denial instead. The threat of this will dissuade people from seeking treatment after an assault.
And acting like this won't affect employer insurance is naive. An employer with operations in multiple states could choose to buy insurance from a waiver state that doesn't cover or caps essential health benefits. 60% of people with employer insurance before the ACA had a lifetime cap on benefits.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:24 AM on May 6, 2017 [43 favorites]
The "claim" also relies on the personal experience of rape and abuse survivors who tried to get insurance before the ACA. We don't have to imagine what that world looks like. It already existed before 2010. Maybe state laws now prohibit using sexual assault as a denial reason, but they can just use things like the ptsd, anxiety, depression, STDs, or pregnancy that result from the sexual assault as a reason for denial instead. The threat of this will dissuade people from seeking treatment after an assault.
And acting like this won't affect employer insurance is naive. An employer with operations in multiple states could choose to buy insurance from a waiver state that doesn't cover or caps essential health benefits. 60% of people with employer insurance before the ACA had a lifetime cap on benefits.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:24 AM on May 6, 2017 [43 favorites]
I'm willing to exaggerate for a good cause. And I'm angry. For cis women and trans men, fertility and infertility and menopause will all be pre-existing conditions. Did I leave anybody out?
posted by puddledork at 7:28 AM on May 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by puddledork at 7:28 AM on May 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
hey, life is a pre-existing condition ...
posted by pyramid termite at 7:31 AM on May 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 7:31 AM on May 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
A person would need to be in the individual or small-group market (most Americans under 65 are on employer-provided plans), in a state that sought waivers, and in one of two to five states that did not prohibit insurance-company discrimination against survivors of sexual abuse.
In other words, this claim relies on so many factors — including unknown decisions by a handful of states and insurance companies — that this talking point becomes almost meaningless.
44% of people under 65 get insurance from the individual market. Scott Walker yesterday said he would consider opting out of pre-existing conditions rules. And if my research is right, the 5 states that don't have existing laws are Mississippi, South Carolina, South Dakota, North Dakota and Oklahoma with a total population of 14m.
So that's a shit-ton of women at risk to shitbag governors like Walker. I wouldn't call that meaningless.
posted by chris24 at 7:31 AM on May 6, 2017 [45 favorites]
In other words, this claim relies on so many factors — including unknown decisions by a handful of states and insurance companies — that this talking point becomes almost meaningless.
44% of people under 65 get insurance from the individual market. Scott Walker yesterday said he would consider opting out of pre-existing conditions rules. And if my research is right, the 5 states that don't have existing laws are Mississippi, South Carolina, South Dakota, North Dakota and Oklahoma with a total population of 14m.
So that's a shit-ton of women at risk to shitbag governors like Walker. I wouldn't call that meaningless.
posted by chris24 at 7:31 AM on May 6, 2017 [45 favorites]
If even one person will get denied coverage because of sexual assault, that's still a meaningful talking point.
posted by Ruki at 7:58 AM on May 6, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by Ruki at 7:58 AM on May 6, 2017 [21 favorites]
So that's a shit-ton of women at risk to shitbag governors like Walker. I wouldn't call that meaningless.
Don't forget the giant middle finger to New York State that prohibits subsidizing individual health plans that offer abortion coverage.
posted by Talez at 7:58 AM on May 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
Don't forget the giant middle finger to New York State that prohibits subsidizing individual health plans that offer abortion coverage.
posted by Talez at 7:58 AM on May 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
So that's a shit-ton of women at risk to shitbag governors like Walker. I wouldn't call that meaningless.
And just to run the numbers.
14M x 50% female = 7M
7M x 63% aged 18-65 = 4.4M
4.4M x 44% in individual market = 1.9M
1.9M x the 1 in 6 women who've been sexually assaulted = 323,000
323,000 is not meaningless.
posted by chris24 at 8:04 AM on May 6, 2017 [15 favorites]
And just to run the numbers.
14M x 50% female = 7M
7M x 63% aged 18-65 = 4.4M
4.4M x 44% in individual market = 1.9M
1.9M x the 1 in 6 women who've been sexually assaulted = 323,000
323,000 is not meaningless.
posted by chris24 at 8:04 AM on May 6, 2017 [15 favorites]
How about, just for today, if you're a healthy person, you take the day off from telling us all that we're overreacting? I take a medication that costs, no joke, $6000/month retail. If I lose my employer provided insurance and can't purchase/afford private insurance because of the changes in this bill, I lose that medication. If I lose that medication, I will be far too sick to look for another job with employer provided insurance. That is what we're talking about here. That is all that matters. Don't tell me I'm overreacting. Just fucking don't.
posted by hydropsyche at 8:17 AM on May 6, 2017 [104 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 8:17 AM on May 6, 2017 [104 favorites]
Republican Raul Labrador: "Nobody dies because they don’t have access to health care".
This is the level of lying we're dealing with from the Republicans.
Maybe a little exaggeration from Democrats in response is not the story here.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:23 AM on May 6, 2017 [58 favorites]
This is the level of lying we're dealing with from the Republicans.
Maybe a little exaggeration from Democrats in response is not the story here.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:23 AM on May 6, 2017 [58 favorites]
Republican Raul Labrador: "Nobody dies because they don’t have access to health care".
Your Honor, Members of the Jury, the State asserts that I killed the victim by shooting him several times, but I submit that the cause of his death was massive blood loss and internal organ trauma leading to heart failure and brain death. I'm innocent!
posted by dis_integration at 8:33 AM on May 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
Your Honor, Members of the Jury, the State asserts that I killed the victim by shooting him several times, but I submit that the cause of his death was massive blood loss and internal organ trauma leading to heart failure and brain death. I'm innocent!
posted by dis_integration at 8:33 AM on May 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
Don't forget the giant middle finger to New York State that prohibits subsidizing individual health plans that offer abortion coverage.
Eric Schneiderman: Come at me, bro!
posted by mikelieman at 8:39 AM on May 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
Eric Schneiderman: Come at me, bro!
posted by mikelieman at 8:39 AM on May 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
"Nobody dies because they don’t have access to health care".
"That's why bombing hospitals is okay too!"
posted by XMLicious at 8:43 AM on May 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
"That's why bombing hospitals is okay too!"
posted by XMLicious at 8:43 AM on May 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
Republican Raul Labrador: "Nobody dies because they don’t have access to health care".
People need to be sending him detailed accounts of people who died because they couldn't afford treatment.
posted by srboisvert at 8:43 AM on May 6, 2017 [14 favorites]
People need to be sending him detailed accounts of people who died because they couldn't afford treatment.
posted by srboisvert at 8:43 AM on May 6, 2017 [14 favorites]
Michelle Ye Hee Lee, WaPo: Despite critics’ claims, the GOP health bill doesn’t classify rape or sexual assault as a preexisting condition
I hate times or instances where something that's generally valuable, like fact-checkers, becomes worse than useless. Whether it's this time or Snopes going off the rails, these instances always seem to follow the same pattern of going into lawyerly parsing of the claim to show that the most literal, direct, BEEP BEEP I AM A ROBOT interpretation is false.
I assume a lot of this comes from the same place as NPR-style awfulness -- I want to appear even handed, and God knows the Republicans tell ridiculous whoppers about everything, so by God I am going to find out that this liberal claim is false even if the actual substance of the claim, as a normal human would understand it, is basically true.
In this case, in all but a few states, even if they had a waiver it would remain illegal for the insurance company to say that they're denying coverage because someone is a rape survivor. But not to deny a rape survivor coverage because her PTSD is a pre-existing condition, or to deny a domestic violence survivor coverage because of her pre-existing condition of chronic traumatic encephalopathy. Or not to deny a survivor coverage based on a holistic assessment of her health status or similar bullshit. And certainly not to offer survivors coverage at ludicrous rates nobody would pay, because that's totally a different thing from denying them coverage. But therefore the claim is false.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:46 AM on May 6, 2017 [22 favorites]
I hate times or instances where something that's generally valuable, like fact-checkers, becomes worse than useless. Whether it's this time or Snopes going off the rails, these instances always seem to follow the same pattern of going into lawyerly parsing of the claim to show that the most literal, direct, BEEP BEEP I AM A ROBOT interpretation is false.
I assume a lot of this comes from the same place as NPR-style awfulness -- I want to appear even handed, and God knows the Republicans tell ridiculous whoppers about everything, so by God I am going to find out that this liberal claim is false even if the actual substance of the claim, as a normal human would understand it, is basically true.
In this case, in all but a few states, even if they had a waiver it would remain illegal for the insurance company to say that they're denying coverage because someone is a rape survivor. But not to deny a rape survivor coverage because her PTSD is a pre-existing condition, or to deny a domestic violence survivor coverage because of her pre-existing condition of chronic traumatic encephalopathy. Or not to deny a survivor coverage based on a holistic assessment of her health status or similar bullshit. And certainly not to offer survivors coverage at ludicrous rates nobody would pay, because that's totally a different thing from denying them coverage. But therefore the claim is false.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:46 AM on May 6, 2017 [22 favorites]
> Scare tactics, eh? I guess it fits--one more way in which the neoliberals jauntily emulate the right.
Democrats and Republicans were using "scare tactics" long before "neoliberalism" as we know it existed. The job of a politician is to explain why citizens should vote for them. If you only focus on the things you'll do without contrasting them to what your opponent will do, you're not doing your job. That said, I can accept that some appeals go too far in the direction of alarmism for my taste. The "Daisy" ad was very effective, but was a vision of one possible outcome, and not a particularly easy one to prove the likelihood of.
But this ad that you're so offended by? It's making no claims about the future other than "Donald Trump won in the US, and Marine Le Pen can win too." It makes no argument that Le Pen's policies will send France down the road to nuclear catastrophe. If it's "scare tactics" -- what fear is it appealing to?
If ads are saying "we're all going to die if you elect my opponent", well, I think we can do without those appeals. If they're making a simple case like "if you don't vote for Macron then Le Pen will win" -- which is obviously true -- I don't see a problem.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:59 AM on May 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
Democrats and Republicans were using "scare tactics" long before "neoliberalism" as we know it existed. The job of a politician is to explain why citizens should vote for them. If you only focus on the things you'll do without contrasting them to what your opponent will do, you're not doing your job. That said, I can accept that some appeals go too far in the direction of alarmism for my taste. The "Daisy" ad was very effective, but was a vision of one possible outcome, and not a particularly easy one to prove the likelihood of.
But this ad that you're so offended by? It's making no claims about the future other than "Donald Trump won in the US, and Marine Le Pen can win too." It makes no argument that Le Pen's policies will send France down the road to nuclear catastrophe. If it's "scare tactics" -- what fear is it appealing to?
If ads are saying "we're all going to die if you elect my opponent", well, I think we can do without those appeals. If they're making a simple case like "if you don't vote for Macron then Le Pen will win" -- which is obviously true -- I don't see a problem.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:59 AM on May 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
Say you have a lot of money in the stock market. You don’t pay taxes on those investments until you sell your shares and pocket the gains. So if you believe that the tax rate on investment income is going to fall — as it would under Trump’s plan, at least for high-income families — then it makes sense to refrain from selling until the tax plan is enacted.
This is exactly why so many companies these days play lip service to dividends but prefer stock buy-backs. Companies reinvest their profits back into the business until they run out of profitable projects to fund. The excess is typically returned to the shareholders. It's a way of saying, "Here, you can make better use of this than I can." Most mature companies still pay out dividends but it's mostly for the income investors and analysts that still use the "dividend growth model" for part of their stock valuations.
With stock buy-backs, the board approves an amount and then the company can start buying back stock. They don't buy back their stock from any specific shareholders, they're just buying their stock on the open market just like anyone else. However, when savvy investors want to capitalize on their gains, they'll wait until the most advantageous time which is often when there is a tax advantage to selling that specific stock that year.
In other words, if/when Trump passes his tax breaks, watch for TONS of companies to start implementing aggressive stock buy-back programs as the entirety of the 1% capitalizes on their investments. What's that? They also want to create a temporary tax reprieve so that companies can repatriate a bunch of their cash at a lower tax rate too? What a surprise!*
*I am not actually surprised
posted by VTX at 9:24 AM on May 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
This is exactly why so many companies these days play lip service to dividends but prefer stock buy-backs. Companies reinvest their profits back into the business until they run out of profitable projects to fund. The excess is typically returned to the shareholders. It's a way of saying, "Here, you can make better use of this than I can." Most mature companies still pay out dividends but it's mostly for the income investors and analysts that still use the "dividend growth model" for part of their stock valuations.
With stock buy-backs, the board approves an amount and then the company can start buying back stock. They don't buy back their stock from any specific shareholders, they're just buying their stock on the open market just like anyone else. However, when savvy investors want to capitalize on their gains, they'll wait until the most advantageous time which is often when there is a tax advantage to selling that specific stock that year.
In other words, if/when Trump passes his tax breaks, watch for TONS of companies to start implementing aggressive stock buy-back programs as the entirety of the 1% capitalizes on their investments. What's that? They also want to create a temporary tax reprieve so that companies can repatriate a bunch of their cash at a lower tax rate too? What a surprise!*
*I am not actually surprised
posted by VTX at 9:24 AM on May 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
Some very conscientious fact-checking by the Onion AV Club: Correction: Republican bloodsuckers who sentenced poor to die didn’t drink Bud Light
posted by hydropsyche at 9:28 AM on May 6, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 9:28 AM on May 6, 2017 [26 favorites]
I assume a lot of this comes from the same place as NPR-style awfulness -- I want to appear even handed, and God knows the Republicans tell ridiculous whoppers about everything, so by God I am going to find out that this liberal claim is false even if the actual substance of the claim, as a normal human would understand it, is basically true.
They used a phrase on Jon Lovett's podcast last night that I loved - performative neutrality.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:36 AM on May 6, 2017 [27 favorites]
They used a phrase on Jon Lovett's podcast last night that I loved - performative neutrality.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:36 AM on May 6, 2017 [27 favorites]
The "Daisy" ad was very effective, but was a vision of one possible outcome, and not a particularly easy one to prove the likelihood of.
If Goldwater was elected there probably would have been a nuclear war. The guy was ready to make the first strike.
posted by Talez at 9:45 AM on May 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
If Goldwater was elected there probably would have been a nuclear war. The guy was ready to make the first strike.
posted by Talez at 9:45 AM on May 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
The guy hopped up on stage and said "why aren't we using nukes in Vietnam to blow up forests?"
That's not a man of restraint.
posted by Talez at 9:48 AM on May 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
That's not a man of restraint.
posted by Talez at 9:48 AM on May 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
44% of people under 65 get insurance from the individual market.
We should attempt to do better when using numbers and I'll show you how at the bottom. That 44% number is way off. You can't just say that 56% get employer insurance so therefore the rest are in the individual market. There are many other pieces to health coverage in the U.S.
The individual insurance market it quite small, about 7% of people in the U.S. There are another 7% that are on low income Medicaid, which isn't the individual market.
That is one of the reasons Obamacare has been such a tough sell politically, because the constituency is quite small. The vast majority of Americans know nothing about the individual insurance market because they aren't in it. But they are convinced that Obamacare is awful even though they are totally ignorant about it and not directly affected.
That's not to say that Obamacare doesn't have benefits that affect everyone in some relatively obscure way, but the most visible and direct affects are on a fairly small portion of the population, about 7% in the individual market and another 7% of low income people in Medicaid.
Here are a couple of bookmarks that everyone should have handy to if they want to discuss the size and distribution of the healthcare coverage in the U.S. Charles Gaba has put together by far the best compilation of statistics anywhere.
Pie chart.
Pie chart explanation.
posted by JackFlash at 9:49 AM on May 6, 2017 [25 favorites]
We should attempt to do better when using numbers and I'll show you how at the bottom. That 44% number is way off. You can't just say that 56% get employer insurance so therefore the rest are in the individual market. There are many other pieces to health coverage in the U.S.
The individual insurance market it quite small, about 7% of people in the U.S. There are another 7% that are on low income Medicaid, which isn't the individual market.
That is one of the reasons Obamacare has been such a tough sell politically, because the constituency is quite small. The vast majority of Americans know nothing about the individual insurance market because they aren't in it. But they are convinced that Obamacare is awful even though they are totally ignorant about it and not directly affected.
That's not to say that Obamacare doesn't have benefits that affect everyone in some relatively obscure way, but the most visible and direct affects are on a fairly small portion of the population, about 7% in the individual market and another 7% of low income people in Medicaid.
Here are a couple of bookmarks that everyone should have handy to if they want to discuss the size and distribution of the healthcare coverage in the U.S. Charles Gaba has put together by far the best compilation of statistics anywhere.
Pie chart.
Pie chart explanation.
posted by JackFlash at 9:49 AM on May 6, 2017 [25 favorites]
The guy hopped up on stage and said 'why aren't we using nukes in Vietnam to blow up forests?'
MATTHEWS: OK. The trouble is, when you said that, the whole world heard it. David Cameron in Britain heard it. The Japanese, where we bombed them in 45, heard it. They're hearing a guy running for president of the United States talking of maybe using nuclear weapons. Nobody wants to hear that about an American president.posted by kirkaracha at 9:52 AM on May 6, 2017 [20 favorites]
TRUMP: Then why are we making them? Why do we make them?
> If Goldwater was elected there probably would have been a nuclear war. The guy was ready to make the first strike.
I feel the same way, but that's different than proving it to be the case.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:58 AM on May 6, 2017
I feel the same way, but that's different than proving it to be the case.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:58 AM on May 6, 2017
TRUMP: Then why are we making them? Why do we make them?
Yep. We elected a portmanteau of Barry Goldwater and Greg Stillson.
posted by Talez at 10:00 AM on May 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
Yep. We elected a portmanteau of Barry Goldwater and Greg Stillson.
posted by Talez at 10:00 AM on May 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
We elected a portmanteau of Barry Goldwater and Greg Stillson.
Don't forget a dash of Nero and a pinch of Immortan Joe.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:04 AM on May 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
Don't forget a dash of Nero and a pinch of Immortan Joe.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:04 AM on May 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
You can't just say that 56% get employer insurance so therefore the rest are in the individual market. There are many other pieces to health coverage in the U.S.
And Trumpcare cuts all of those as well. Getting rid of essential benefits hurts even employer based coverage. It cuts $880 billion from Medicaid (with more cuts to come after that).
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:19 AM on May 6, 2017 [16 favorites]
And Trumpcare cuts all of those as well. Getting rid of essential benefits hurts even employer based coverage. It cuts $880 billion from Medicaid (with more cuts to come after that).
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:19 AM on May 6, 2017 [16 favorites]
Republican Raul Labrador: "Nobody dies because they don’t have access to health care".
Nobody goes hungry because they don't have access to food.
Yup, checks out.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:42 AM on May 6, 2017 [19 favorites]
Nobody goes hungry because they don't have access to food.
Yup, checks out.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:42 AM on May 6, 2017 [19 favorites]
yeah, re: scare tactics... this is something that the people of France SHOULD be scared of. And at this point I don't give a shit about a good, sporting fight where everyone gets out and votes because they're just so bloody inspired by their candidate. This ain't Leslie Knope versus Paul Rudd. People's lives are at stake. The future of democratic Europe is hanging in the balance. Just yesterday, Russia shamelessly, blatantly, cynically pulled the same goddamn maneuver on Macron that they pulled on the Democrats. The opposition, and the totalitarian foreign regime that supports them, do not fucking CARE about taking conscionable actions (and I'd tell you to ask Anna Politkovskaya or Boris Nemtsov about that, but they're both dead). And so I don't particularly CARE how France prevents their neo-Nazi Dolores Umbridge from taking the presidency, as long as they make it happen.
The same applies to America: the Republican leadership of America is determined to pull as many dirty tricks as it can to maintain its power. Like the Russian leadership, they've become brazen and shameless about it. We have got to understand that anger and fear are not always bad things. Sometimes anger and fear are totally appropriate responses. Sometimes they are the most powerful motivating forces to get up and do something, even if it's no more than heading to a voting booth once every two years. The carrot is a lovely idea, but the stick is very fucking real and it's bludgeoning us right now.
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 10:46 AM on May 6, 2017 [36 favorites]
The same applies to America: the Republican leadership of America is determined to pull as many dirty tricks as it can to maintain its power. Like the Russian leadership, they've become brazen and shameless about it. We have got to understand that anger and fear are not always bad things. Sometimes anger and fear are totally appropriate responses. Sometimes they are the most powerful motivating forces to get up and do something, even if it's no more than heading to a voting booth once every two years. The carrot is a lovely idea, but the stick is very fucking real and it's bludgeoning us right now.
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 10:46 AM on May 6, 2017 [36 favorites]
So evidently Puerto Rico filed for bankruptcy recently (previously, Last Week Tonight coverage last year) under a law signed by Obama near the end of his term. That Guardian article links to an opinion piece by a guy named Rodney Johnson, who is evidently a Fox News personality, wherein he referred to Puerto Rico taking measures because it was unable to pay its debts as "outright theft".
But what do you know, he voted for Trump, even though it hurt him so much to do that. Trump himself recently called any relief for PR a bailout. Despite Trump having declared bankruptcy again and again; but that's okay when it's for rich people, I guess.
And whaddaya know, in Johnson's "theft" piece, the person whom he singled out for criticism was Melba Acosta-Febo, President of the Puerto Rico Government Development Bank; a woman.
posted by XMLicious at 11:37 AM on May 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
But what do you know, he voted for Trump, even though it hurt him so much to do that. Trump himself recently called any relief for PR a bailout. Despite Trump having declared bankruptcy again and again; but that's okay when it's for rich people, I guess.
And whaddaya know, in Johnson's "theft" piece, the person whom he singled out for criticism was Melba Acosta-Febo, President of the Puerto Rico Government Development Bank; a woman.
posted by XMLicious at 11:37 AM on May 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
Sometimes fear is well-founded, and those who preach against it are preaching for putting one's head in the sand. This is one of those times.
posted by Lyme Drop at 11:37 AM on May 6, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Lyme Drop at 11:37 AM on May 6, 2017 [14 favorites]
Donald Trump former aide Carter Page refuses to provide Russia contacts to Senate
Former Trump adviser Carter Page has declined to provide records of his communications with Russians to the Senate intelligence committee, saying that anything of note has already been recorded by former President Barack Obama’s administration.
And
“I suspect the physical reaction of the Clinton/Obama regime perpetrators will be more along the lines of severe vomiting when all the facts are eventually exposed regarding the steps taken by the US Government to influence the 2016 election,” Mr Page wrote in response to an April letter he received from the Senate committee.
This dude is a whacko. I thought he had nothing to hide. Article says that 3 days ago Page told Fox that he was cooperating.
posted by futz at 12:33 PM on May 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
Former Trump adviser Carter Page has declined to provide records of his communications with Russians to the Senate intelligence committee, saying that anything of note has already been recorded by former President Barack Obama’s administration.
And
“I suspect the physical reaction of the Clinton/Obama regime perpetrators will be more along the lines of severe vomiting when all the facts are eventually exposed regarding the steps taken by the US Government to influence the 2016 election,” Mr Page wrote in response to an April letter he received from the Senate committee.
This dude is a whacko. I thought he had nothing to hide. Article says that 3 days ago Page told Fox that he was cooperating.
posted by futz at 12:33 PM on May 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
Uhh...
Someone noticed Trump's chin looks like a frog and you can't unsee it
posted by futz at 12:38 PM on May 6, 2017 [20 favorites]
Someone noticed Trump's chin looks like a frog and you can't unsee it
posted by futz at 12:38 PM on May 6, 2017 [20 favorites]
If only the Senate committee had some sort of power to compel testimony under penalty.
Sure he could take the Fifth. Make him do it.
posted by Justinian at 12:38 PM on May 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
Sure he could take the Fifth. Make him do it.
posted by Justinian at 12:38 PM on May 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
Page better be carrying a Geiger counter with him.
posted by PenDevil at 12:40 PM on May 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 12:40 PM on May 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
Paul Ryan's press secretary not even pretending to tell the truth.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:43 PM on May 6, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 12:43 PM on May 6, 2017 [14 favorites]
Paul Ryan's press secretary not even pretending to tell the truth.
"While we're setting the record straight: AHCA was posted online a month ago, went through 4 committees, & has been scored by CBO -- twice."
She then links to two CBO scores of the prior version of RyanCare dated 3/13 and 3/23, not the one they passed, which was even worse.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:49 PM on May 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
"While we're setting the record straight: AHCA was posted online a month ago, went through 4 committees, & has been scored by CBO -- twice."
She then links to two CBO scores of the prior version of RyanCare dated 3/13 and 3/23, not the one they passed, which was even worse.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:49 PM on May 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
I'm reading a profile about Andrew Anglin, the neo-Nazi who runs the Daily Stormer, and I can't get over this excerpt:
"Anglin’s individualistic streak exhibited itself in his appearance. The first week of freshman year he arrived for school sporting self-styled dreadlocks, with his hair divided into squares and each square twisted into a dread-like spiral. His typical uniform included baggy hooded sweatshirts and outsized JNCO or UFO pants, and acquaintances alternately described his style as “hippy grunge” or “Nirvana-meets-some-music-fest-spiritual.” At one point, he stopped wearing a hat emblazoned with the Independent Truck Company logo because another student purchased the same cap. “He was like, ’Now I can’t wear that hat,’” said a classmate. “He didn’t want to be the same as anybody else.”
posted by gucci mane at 12:53 PM on May 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
"Anglin’s individualistic streak exhibited itself in his appearance. The first week of freshman year he arrived for school sporting self-styled dreadlocks, with his hair divided into squares and each square twisted into a dread-like spiral. His typical uniform included baggy hooded sweatshirts and outsized JNCO or UFO pants, and acquaintances alternately described his style as “hippy grunge” or “Nirvana-meets-some-music-fest-spiritual.” At one point, he stopped wearing a hat emblazoned with the Independent Truck Company logo because another student purchased the same cap. “He was like, ’Now I can’t wear that hat,’” said a classmate. “He didn’t want to be the same as anybody else.”
posted by gucci mane at 12:53 PM on May 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
You can't just say that 56% get employer insurance so therefore the rest are in the individual market. There are many other pieces to health coverage in the U.S.
Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't thinking clearing this morning. I was thinking 44% of people weren't protected by employer plans from government ratfuckery. Of course, as T.D. Strange mentions above, even employer plans aren't necessarily immune from the AHCA.
And even with the lower percentage in the individual markets, the numbers aren't good. The 5 states that don't have laws protecting against sexual assault as a pre-existing condition have 14m people. 63% of people are 18-65, 50% are female. 1 in 6 women have been sexually assaulted. That's 735,000 women at risk of being excluded for sexual assault if they enter the exchanges. With 7% currently in the exchanges, that's over 50,000 women right now. Sorry, but that's not "meaningless." We just spent a whole election fetishizing 76,000 jobs in the coal industry. If it's not as common as the author thinks is necessary for us to care about it, fuck that. This is the worst type of bothsides-ism when the Rs are literally lying constantly about sending people to their deaths and reporters think Ds might be exaggerating a bit.
posted by chris24 at 12:53 PM on May 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't thinking clearing this morning. I was thinking 44% of people weren't protected by employer plans from government ratfuckery. Of course, as T.D. Strange mentions above, even employer plans aren't necessarily immune from the AHCA.
And even with the lower percentage in the individual markets, the numbers aren't good. The 5 states that don't have laws protecting against sexual assault as a pre-existing condition have 14m people. 63% of people are 18-65, 50% are female. 1 in 6 women have been sexually assaulted. That's 735,000 women at risk of being excluded for sexual assault if they enter the exchanges. With 7% currently in the exchanges, that's over 50,000 women right now. Sorry, but that's not "meaningless." We just spent a whole election fetishizing 76,000 jobs in the coal industry. If it's not as common as the author thinks is necessary for us to care about it, fuck that. This is the worst type of bothsides-ism when the Rs are literally lying constantly about sending people to their deaths and reporters think Ds might be exaggerating a bit.
posted by chris24 at 12:53 PM on May 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
I hope wherever Trump is buried, the ground becomes so flooded with piss that the earth just sort of vomits up his body
Can we postpone the piss party until such time as I've finally taken those tap dance lessons and commissioned a woodworker to build some sort of portable folding dance floor?
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 12:59 PM on May 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
Can we postpone the piss party until such time as I've finally taken those tap dance lessons and commissioned a woodworker to build some sort of portable folding dance floor?
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 12:59 PM on May 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
Not all heroes wear capes. Some wear easily unzipped hoodies.
A guy got his pic taken with Paul Ryan at Pancake Day wearing a 'GOP says Repeal and Go Fuck Yourself' tee.
posted by chris24 at 1:13 PM on May 6, 2017 [47 favorites]
A guy got his pic taken with Paul Ryan at Pancake Day wearing a 'GOP says Repeal and Go Fuck Yourself' tee.
posted by chris24 at 1:13 PM on May 6, 2017 [47 favorites]
From Mixed Signals From Trump Worry Pro-Israel Hard-Liners
posted by zachlipton at 1:14 PM on May 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
The deletion of Mr. Trump’s Twitter message calling it “an honor” to meet with Mr. Abbas was widely noticed by Israeli news media. Curiously, similar messages on other social media were not deleted. Michael Anton, a White House spokesman, said that no one knew what had happened to the Twitter post but that “we stand by the message.”They're really going with "who knows what happened to the tweet" as their official response?
posted by zachlipton at 1:14 PM on May 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Klobuchar/Kennedy 2020. Bet placed today.
posted by Wordshore at 1:15 PM on May 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Wordshore at 1:15 PM on May 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
They're really going with "who knows what happened to the tweet" as their official response?
O Rly, motherfuckers?
4/3/17: White House will preserve all of Trump's tweets: report
Sure, it will give me time to stock up on dairy products.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:32 PM on May 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
O Rly, motherfuckers?
4/3/17: White House will preserve all of Trump's tweets: report
The White House has agreed to preserve each of President Trump's tweets, even deleted or amended ones, following the request of the National Archives and Records Administration, according to a Monday Associated Press report.Can we postpone the piss party until such time as I've finally taken those tap dance lessons and commissioned a woodworker to build some sort of portable folding dance floor?
Sure, it will give me time to stock up on dairy products.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:32 PM on May 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
> I am shocked, shocked to bring you this report: Macron campaign says it has been the victim of a massive, coordinated hacking operation
MacronLeaks is final twist in surreal French election campaign: Latest attack probably too obvious to substantially alter result and may in fact have opposite effect to what hackers want
Quelle surprise! Alt-right Americans and internet bots are spreading #MacronLeaks
Posobiec mentioned previously.
posted by homunculus at 1:37 PM on May 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
MacronLeaks is final twist in surreal French election campaign: Latest attack probably too obvious to substantially alter result and may in fact have opposite effect to what hackers want
Quelle surprise! Alt-right Americans and internet bots are spreading #MacronLeaks
Posobiec mentioned previously.
posted by homunculus at 1:37 PM on May 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
This is a good interview with Jay Rosen: Press critic Jay Rosen on how and why the media is normalizing Trump: “The need to be truthful conflicts with the duty to appear neutral."
He points out how even stock terms like "foreign policy" or "tax plan" convey meaning, that he has something that can credibly be called a "policy" or a "plan" respectively, that "flip-flopping" implies he had a position in the first place.
posted by zachlipton at 1:48 PM on May 6, 2017 [21 favorites]
He points out how even stock terms like "foreign policy" or "tax plan" convey meaning, that he has something that can credibly be called a "policy" or a "plan" respectively, that "flip-flopping" implies he had a position in the first place.
posted by zachlipton at 1:48 PM on May 6, 2017 [21 favorites]
may in fact have opposite effect to what hackers want
"Americans are trying to influence our election" should be the perfect way to turn the election AWAY from what the hackers want, especially in France. And let's face it, if word had gotten out that FRENCH hackers were helping Trump, Clinton would've gotten an electoral landslide...
#MacaronLeaks
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:55 PM on May 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
"Americans are trying to influence our election" should be the perfect way to turn the election AWAY from what the hackers want, especially in France. And let's face it, if word had gotten out that FRENCH hackers were helping Trump, Clinton would've gotten an electoral landslide...
#MacaronLeaks
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:55 PM on May 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
Someone noticed Trump's chin looks like a frog and you can't unsee it
Someone else animated it with sound, for all those who'd like Trump to croak.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:01 PM on May 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
Someone else animated it with sound, for all those who'd like Trump to croak.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:01 PM on May 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
Even in his death, we can't escape his damn piss party
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:10 PM on May 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:10 PM on May 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
A Last Minute Influence Op by Data DDoS
Amplification: the leak was accompanied by a full force of trolls, promoting bullshit narratives and flinging cyber feces at any discussions they could find (many didn’t even bother to change their pro Trump personas.)
...
An important lesson demonstrated by Wikileaks’ presentation of the Vault7 data⁴ is that people, journalists included, mostly read the summaries rather than the primary sources. The summary is very likely to be foundational source for the article. A carefully written summary crafted to mislead the reader has a strong chance of directly influencing the media’s reporting of the primary sources. It’s faster and easier to trust the summary (or press release) than to actually analyse the documents.
Indeed, reporters can be so lazy that they simply cobble together articles using cut and paste snippets from the press release. This garbage chute method of writing is derisively called churnalism, but many non technical journalists can easy fall prey to deferring to “the specialist.” This happened frequently with the Vault7 releases, where the hyperbolic summaries were quoted verbatim even when they weren’t supported by the primary sources – available in the same post!
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:41 PM on May 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
Amplification: the leak was accompanied by a full force of trolls, promoting bullshit narratives and flinging cyber feces at any discussions they could find (many didn’t even bother to change their pro Trump personas.)
...
An important lesson demonstrated by Wikileaks’ presentation of the Vault7 data⁴ is that people, journalists included, mostly read the summaries rather than the primary sources. The summary is very likely to be foundational source for the article. A carefully written summary crafted to mislead the reader has a strong chance of directly influencing the media’s reporting of the primary sources. It’s faster and easier to trust the summary (or press release) than to actually analyse the documents.
Indeed, reporters can be so lazy that they simply cobble together articles using cut and paste snippets from the press release. This garbage chute method of writing is derisively called churnalism, but many non technical journalists can easy fall prey to deferring to “the specialist.” This happened frequently with the Vault7 releases, where the hyperbolic summaries were quoted verbatim even when they weren’t supported by the primary sources – available in the same post!
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:41 PM on May 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
EPA fires science advisers
The agency quietly forced out some members of the Board of Scientific Counselors just weeks after leaders told them their tenure would be renewed, said Robert Richardson, an ecological economist at Michigan State University and one of those dismissed.
The board is tasked with reviewing the work of EPA scientists and provides feedback that can be a powerful voice in shaping the agency's future research.
...The board had 18 members, including Richardson, who said he knew of at least one other member fired. Departures could reach a dozen, he said.
Fuck the republicans.
posted by futz at 3:23 PM on May 6, 2017 [36 favorites]
The agency quietly forced out some members of the Board of Scientific Counselors just weeks after leaders told them their tenure would be renewed, said Robert Richardson, an ecological economist at Michigan State University and one of those dismissed.
The board is tasked with reviewing the work of EPA scientists and provides feedback that can be a powerful voice in shaping the agency's future research.
...The board had 18 members, including Richardson, who said he knew of at least one other member fired. Departures could reach a dozen, he said.
Fuck the republicans.
posted by futz at 3:23 PM on May 6, 2017 [36 favorites]
Within a few minutes, the information was relayed on Twitter and other social media by Jack Posobiec, a well known far-right contributor to the American website The Rebel, openly pro-Trump and pro-Le Pen.
Dear French Electorate,
Are you as easily duped as the Americans? Please answer with a conscionable election result.
Kisses,
Johnny Lunchbucket
posted by petebest at 3:24 PM on May 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
Dear French Electorate,
Are you as easily duped as the Americans? Please answer with a conscionable election result.
Kisses,
Johnny Lunchbucket
posted by petebest at 3:24 PM on May 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm going to second, third, fourth, and otherwise agree with Joey Buttafoucault's babykiller comment.
We must never, ever, allow those Republican fuckers to get away with trying to claim they want to "save babies" again. They are babykillers. Every single one of them. And we must hit them with that label as often and as loudly as possible.
Rep Smith, why did you vote to kill babies?
Rep Smith, can you explain why you hate babies so much you voted to kill them?
Rep Smith, is your vote to bomb babies in Syria related to your vote to murder babies in the USA?
Rep Smith, as a babykiller do you support slashing school budgets as well?
Rep Smith, many of your constituents are pro-life, how do you explain your babykilling vote to them?
Rep Smith, do you think it's right of you to call yourself "pro-life" in your campaign ads since you're now a babykiller?
And on, and on, and on, ad infinitum.
With the destruction of Clinton, by 35 solid years of Republican smears they proved to us how a lie can ruin a politician if it's repeated often enough. Now we need to show them that a truth, repeated often enough, can be just as harmful.
We must repeat the baby killing point so often that it enters the public imagination, even if the public remembers it only to counter it.
They voted to kill babies.
It's the ultimate drive by talking point. It turns their own biggest seller against them and chops away at their support.
Even if all it does is make "babykiller" a totally impotent and used up talking point and phrase that's still a win since the so-called "pro-life" scum won't be able to use it against us anymore.
posted by sotonohito at 3:33 PM on May 6, 2017 [58 favorites]
We must never, ever, allow those Republican fuckers to get away with trying to claim they want to "save babies" again. They are babykillers. Every single one of them. And we must hit them with that label as often and as loudly as possible.
Rep Smith, why did you vote to kill babies?
Rep Smith, can you explain why you hate babies so much you voted to kill them?
Rep Smith, is your vote to bomb babies in Syria related to your vote to murder babies in the USA?
Rep Smith, as a babykiller do you support slashing school budgets as well?
Rep Smith, many of your constituents are pro-life, how do you explain your babykilling vote to them?
Rep Smith, do you think it's right of you to call yourself "pro-life" in your campaign ads since you're now a babykiller?
And on, and on, and on, ad infinitum.
With the destruction of Clinton, by 35 solid years of Republican smears they proved to us how a lie can ruin a politician if it's repeated often enough. Now we need to show them that a truth, repeated often enough, can be just as harmful.
We must repeat the baby killing point so often that it enters the public imagination, even if the public remembers it only to counter it.
They voted to kill babies.
It's the ultimate drive by talking point. It turns their own biggest seller against them and chops away at their support.
Even if all it does is make "babykiller" a totally impotent and used up talking point and phrase that's still a win since the so-called "pro-life" scum won't be able to use it against us anymore.
posted by sotonohito at 3:33 PM on May 6, 2017 [58 favorites]
Please enjoy this photo of Paul Ryan posing with a man wearing a "repeal and go fuck yourself" t-shirt.
posted by zachlipton at 3:36 PM on May 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 3:36 PM on May 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
Trump tweets about his "meetings" in Bedminster, is photographed on the golf course.
posted by zachlipton at 3:54 PM on May 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 3:54 PM on May 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
sotonohito - I love your idea and will happily start tweeting this at the odious Rep. Greg Walden post haste. Anyone here good with memes & stats? Would love to have something to tweet with "x babies saved from ACA - why did Rep Walden vote them to death?"
posted by hilaryjade at 3:57 PM on May 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by hilaryjade at 3:57 PM on May 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
Here's my daily letter to Mike Pence asking how he reconciles his behavior with the teachings of Jesus Christ. You should send one too. It's fun. EVERY DAY.
One of your pals Mo Brooks R-AL says "people who lead good lives" are less prone to pre-existing conditions. Do you agree with that? How about babies born with heart defects. What was their sin? Oh! Maybe God is punishing their parents? Please explain to me how you reconcile your behavior with the teachings of Jesus Christ. Did Jesus tell leprosy victims they had a pre-existing condition? How are you not a Christian fraud and liar? We see you. God sees you.
posted by dog food sugar at 3:57 PM on May 6, 2017 [39 favorites]
One of your pals Mo Brooks R-AL says "people who lead good lives" are less prone to pre-existing conditions. Do you agree with that? How about babies born with heart defects. What was their sin? Oh! Maybe God is punishing their parents? Please explain to me how you reconcile your behavior with the teachings of Jesus Christ. Did Jesus tell leprosy victims they had a pre-existing condition? How are you not a Christian fraud and liar? We see you. God sees you.
posted by dog food sugar at 3:57 PM on May 6, 2017 [39 favorites]
Interesting discussion on framing political messages here.
Republicans understand the narrative that governs many people in this country, and they target their message directly to that worldview. Democrats, on the other hand, ignore the worldview and focus instead on rationality, facts and policies.posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 4:56 PM on May 6, 2017 [62 favorites]
Students who become Democratic operatives tend to study political studies and statistics and demographics in college. Students who lean Republican study marketing.
Progressives should start calling federal regulations “protections.” If they start re-framing Trump’s promise as “getting rid of two-thirds of federal protections” — and spell out what some of those environmental and health and water quality “protections” are — there might be less support for repealing federal regulations.
We need a progressive Frank Luntz.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:13 PM on May 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:13 PM on May 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
Students who become Democratic operatives tend to study political studies and statistics and demographics in college. Students who lean Republican study marketing
So in essence the left studies to tell the truth and the right studies how to lie.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:30 PM on May 6, 2017 [21 favorites]
So in essence the left studies to tell the truth and the right studies how to lie.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:30 PM on May 6, 2017 [21 favorites]
We need a progressive Frank Luntz.
It's called reality.
posted by Talez at 5:33 PM on May 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's called reality.
posted by Talez at 5:33 PM on May 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Paul Kane, WaPo: Democrats’ two biggest opponents ahead of 2018 may be time and themselves
Democrats are — slowly but surely — engaging in the sort of infighting that usually happens right after losing a presidential election. That reckoning was delayed because President Trump’s stunning victory last November created a fierce energy among Democrats to fight the new administration at every turn, forging a common bond from the party’s coastal liberals to its Midwestern moderates.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:47 PM on May 6, 2017
That early anti-Trump unity, however, papered over deep divisions about what went wrong during the campaign and what the party should do ahead of the 2018 midterm elections.
That’s all changing now.
So in essence the left studies to tell the truth and the right studies how to lie.
I understand why you'd say that, but snark aside, the difference between fact and emotion is real.
I can market to you without lying, e.g., my detergent may actually clean your clothes: but if I can associate an emotion with my product, I'll do a better job of selling. The emotion might be positive (sunshine and bunny rabbits) or negative (is your blouse really white enough), but it's the feeling that compels, not some set of facts.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 5:49 PM on May 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
I understand why you'd say that, but snark aside, the difference between fact and emotion is real.
I can market to you without lying, e.g., my detergent may actually clean your clothes: but if I can associate an emotion with my product, I'll do a better job of selling. The emotion might be positive (sunshine and bunny rabbits) or negative (is your blouse really white enough), but it's the feeling that compels, not some set of facts.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 5:49 PM on May 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
#NotAllMarketers
posted by Lyme Drop at 5:52 PM on May 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Lyme Drop at 5:52 PM on May 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
Soon, even audio and video evidence may easily be faked. Even now, as the Uber "Greyball" tool and targeted advertising show, in our computer-mediated world it's pretty easy to show a different reality to different people.
Democrats will use it tactically in a particular race or over a particular issue, but Republicans and right-wing interests seem to use propaganda much more strategically: not only will they re-write history, they'll re-write it a hundred different ways that all serve to push rightward those exposed.
There may be no way to avoid embracing an elevated use of propaganda and even worse tools; the latitude may just be in the matter of crafting it all to be as benign as possible. The NGP VAN systems we were all giving our information to, and for those of us phone-banking and canvassing were giving other peoples' information to, are basically part of a surveillance apparatus.
posted by XMLicious at 5:54 PM on May 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
Democrats will use it tactically in a particular race or over a particular issue, but Republicans and right-wing interests seem to use propaganda much more strategically: not only will they re-write history, they'll re-write it a hundred different ways that all serve to push rightward those exposed.
There may be no way to avoid embracing an elevated use of propaganda and even worse tools; the latitude may just be in the matter of crafting it all to be as benign as possible. The NGP VAN systems we were all giving our information to, and for those of us phone-banking and canvassing were giving other peoples' information to, are basically part of a surveillance apparatus.
posted by XMLicious at 5:54 PM on May 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
Interesting discussion on framing political messages here.
George is only one guy and it seems like he's been pushing this rope by himself since forever. I wish we could adopt this . . . paradigm? . . worldview? . . weltanschauung? . . whatever, here. Then you Facetweet-savvy types can P0vvn teh 733+ warez, as you kids say. Zig for great justice. And so on.
posted by petebest at 6:01 PM on May 6, 2017
George is only one guy and it seems like he's been pushing this rope by himself since forever. I wish we could adopt this . . . paradigm? . . worldview? . . weltanschauung? . . whatever, here. Then you Facetweet-savvy types can P0vvn teh 733+ warez, as you kids say. Zig for great justice. And so on.
posted by petebest at 6:01 PM on May 6, 2017
>> We need a progressive Frank Luntz.
> It's called reality.
This loses elections. wait I gotta say it more dramatically:
T H I S * L O S E S * E L E C T I O N S
The underlying message the "it's called reality" statement sends, and the underlying message that the related slogan "facts have a liberal bias" sends, is something like "We are so obviously right about how things should be run that we don't have to bother to learn how to do rhetoric." When other people hear it, it comes off as smug and incurious; when people on your side hear it, it comes off as an excuse to be smug and incurious.
The things of the world do not by themselves persuade people to act. Persuasion only happens when we arrange and present the things in the world in a way that builds a compelling narrative that spurs people to a specific action (even just "vote for us"). Behaving like things in themselves speak for themselves is, well, it's magical thinking. It's a form of superstition, one that specifically afflicts people with Enlightenment values. It is, at the very least, deeply irrational.
Folks may think that it's like somehow sad or whatever that facts don't speak for themselves and that rhetoric is what wins the day, but, well, it's a fine thing that rhetoric rules. People who can't figure out how to speak persuasively to a society have no business trying to run that society. When the type of technocrat who thinks they don't need rhetoric cause they've got the facts on their side flukes their way into power, typically they end up making an utter hash of everything.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 6:06 PM on May 6, 2017 [36 favorites]
> It's called reality.
This loses elections. wait I gotta say it more dramatically:
T H I S * L O S E S * E L E C T I O N S
The underlying message the "it's called reality" statement sends, and the underlying message that the related slogan "facts have a liberal bias" sends, is something like "We are so obviously right about how things should be run that we don't have to bother to learn how to do rhetoric." When other people hear it, it comes off as smug and incurious; when people on your side hear it, it comes off as an excuse to be smug and incurious.
The things of the world do not by themselves persuade people to act. Persuasion only happens when we arrange and present the things in the world in a way that builds a compelling narrative that spurs people to a specific action (even just "vote for us"). Behaving like things in themselves speak for themselves is, well, it's magical thinking. It's a form of superstition, one that specifically afflicts people with Enlightenment values. It is, at the very least, deeply irrational.
Folks may think that it's like somehow sad or whatever that facts don't speak for themselves and that rhetoric is what wins the day, but, well, it's a fine thing that rhetoric rules. People who can't figure out how to speak persuasively to a society have no business trying to run that society. When the type of technocrat who thinks they don't need rhetoric cause they've got the facts on their side flukes their way into power, typically they end up making an utter hash of everything.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 6:06 PM on May 6, 2017 [36 favorites]
I'm not sure "Marketers manipulate you emotionally to get you to buy things" is really the defense of marketing you're looking for.
posted by mrgoat at 6:07 PM on May 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by mrgoat at 6:07 PM on May 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's called reality.
Sure. And Hilary had all the right policies.
That's not sufficient.
T H I S * L O S E S * E L E C T I O N S
Yep. There's a difference between having all the right answers, and communicating to voters how those answers really are a) right and b) right for them.
Democrats suck at both.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:11 PM on May 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
Sure. And Hilary had all the right policies.
That's not sufficient.
T H I S * L O S E S * E L E C T I O N S
Yep. There's a difference between having all the right answers, and communicating to voters how those answers really are a) right and b) right for them.
Democrats suck at both.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:11 PM on May 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
> I'm not sure "Marketers manipulate you emotionally to get you to buy things" is really the defense of marketing you're looking for.
People who use solid rhetoric to persuade people to buy things are doing evil. (I mean, I'm not blaming you or whatever. capitalism forces us to do evil. that's why we must end it.)
People who use solid rhetoric to persuade people to vote for the right wing are doing evil and are evil; their only excuse is if there are guns pointed at their heads and even if they've got guns pointed to their heads, they're still disappointments to everyone.
People who use solid rhetoric to persuade people toward liberalism are fine, I guess, so long as we gotta keep up a popular front against fascism.
People who use solid rhetoric to persuade people toward the left are good people doing good work.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 6:13 PM on May 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
People who use solid rhetoric to persuade people to buy things are doing evil. (I mean, I'm not blaming you or whatever. capitalism forces us to do evil. that's why we must end it.)
People who use solid rhetoric to persuade people to vote for the right wing are doing evil and are evil; their only excuse is if there are guns pointed at their heads and even if they've got guns pointed to their heads, they're still disappointments to everyone.
People who use solid rhetoric to persuade people toward liberalism are fine, I guess, so long as we gotta keep up a popular front against fascism.
People who use solid rhetoric to persuade people toward the left are good people doing good work.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 6:13 PM on May 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
How to Stay Sane if Trump is Driving You Insane: Advice From a Therapist [Note: not the same 'how to stay sane with Trump in the White House' medium.com piece from after the election.]
There are times when optimism is not appropriate or possible, and this is one of those times. Our President is delusional, lying, or ignorant; disastrous climate change and war with North Korea loom; marginalized people in our society are suffering. Faced with these calamities, catastrophic thinking is a rational response. History teaches us that many arcs of history did not “bend toward justice.” The 65 million people currently displaced worldwide are tragic examples. We need only speak to a Native American to understand that collapse is entirely possible.
Instead of blind faith in progress, I offer a specific, practical system useful for maintaining mental health in a paranoid, post-positive world.
posted by petebest at 6:16 PM on May 6, 2017 [28 favorites]
There are times when optimism is not appropriate or possible, and this is one of those times. Our President is delusional, lying, or ignorant; disastrous climate change and war with North Korea loom; marginalized people in our society are suffering. Faced with these calamities, catastrophic thinking is a rational response. History teaches us that many arcs of history did not “bend toward justice.” The 65 million people currently displaced worldwide are tragic examples. We need only speak to a Native American to understand that collapse is entirely possible.
Instead of blind faith in progress, I offer a specific, practical system useful for maintaining mental health in a paranoid, post-positive world.
posted by petebest at 6:16 PM on May 6, 2017 [28 favorites]
Not that I think that framing and narrative don't matter, but the main reason Republicans believe what they believe isn't good marketing, it's bad fucking beliefs and biases pandered to. Rs aren't racists because the GOP sold it well, they're racists because they don't like brown people and Rs have built a a party to embrace that. They don't hate gays because they've been convinced to, they hate them because they're fucking bigots and Rs said 'cool, we're on board.' They don't hate government because of some true belief in the open market, they hate it because government helps "those people."
Rs aren't marketing geniuses, they're bad people telling other bad people what they want to hear. It's easy to seem smart when you're selling the worst of human nature. Unfortunately, our "products" facts and empathy, aren't as tasty or easily digested as toxic masculinity and tribalism. It takes more work because it goes against our basest urges. We're always going to be pushing uphill because our goal is to make things and people better, while they embrace and celebrate the worst in us.
posted by chris24 at 6:35 PM on May 6, 2017 [35 favorites]
Rs aren't marketing geniuses, they're bad people telling other bad people what they want to hear. It's easy to seem smart when you're selling the worst of human nature. Unfortunately, our "products" facts and empathy, aren't as tasty or easily digested as toxic masculinity and tribalism. It takes more work because it goes against our basest urges. We're always going to be pushing uphill because our goal is to make things and people better, while they embrace and celebrate the worst in us.
posted by chris24 at 6:35 PM on May 6, 2017 [35 favorites]
I think the point is Democrats get bogged down in "Well...actually it's 7% of the market and 24million, not 44% of 130million like blahblahlbah", while the Republicans are literally out there saying "people don't need healthcare, people don't die from access!" they die from lack of choice! Or whatever. They have an entire ecosystem of focus tested weasel words like, "regulations" instead of "protections"; "repeal and replace" instead of "fuck you got mine"; "states rights" instead of "fuck all the brown people". We have warmed over reactionary garbage like 'stronger together' and a mountain of white papers literally no one read, while telling ourselves we're right on the facts like truth matters.
Marketing works. Emotional connection works. Having the numbers exactly right is necessary for effective government, but not nearly sufficient for winning elections. And you have win before anything else matters.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:01 PM on May 6, 2017 [28 favorites]
Marketing works. Emotional connection works. Having the numbers exactly right is necessary for effective government, but not nearly sufficient for winning elections. And you have win before anything else matters.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:01 PM on May 6, 2017 [28 favorites]
> It's easy to seem smart when you're selling the worst of human nature. Unfortunately, our "products" facts and empathy, aren't as tasty or easily digested as toxic masculinity and tribalism.
For my part I think that a careful empathetic examination of the facts of the world leads to a set of values well to the left of Clinton, Sanders, Ellison, Pelosi, Obama, and Manchin. As such, defining the "product" that the Democratic Party is selling as facts and empathy itself seems counterfactual. I agree that liberalism is a hard thing to sell right now, but it seems wrong to say that it's hard to sell because it's too pure and good for this world.1 Instead, it's a hard thing to sell because it doesn't offer much to most Americans right now — no matter how friendly a face you put on capitalism, broke people aren't going to want it.
One of the reasons I obnoxiously insist on drawing a hard distinction between leftism and liberalism is to foreground how there's genuine disagreement about fundamental values even among people who are decent enough to reject conservatism and fascism, even among people within the awkward multi-tendency coalition called the Democratic Party.
1: If you want a system of political beliefs that's too pure and good for the world, what you're looking for is anarchosyndicalism.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:02 PM on May 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
For my part I think that a careful empathetic examination of the facts of the world leads to a set of values well to the left of Clinton, Sanders, Ellison, Pelosi, Obama, and Manchin. As such, defining the "product" that the Democratic Party is selling as facts and empathy itself seems counterfactual. I agree that liberalism is a hard thing to sell right now, but it seems wrong to say that it's hard to sell because it's too pure and good for this world.1 Instead, it's a hard thing to sell because it doesn't offer much to most Americans right now — no matter how friendly a face you put on capitalism, broke people aren't going to want it.
One of the reasons I obnoxiously insist on drawing a hard distinction between leftism and liberalism is to foreground how there's genuine disagreement about fundamental values even among people who are decent enough to reject conservatism and fascism, even among people within the awkward multi-tendency coalition called the Democratic Party.
1: If you want a system of political beliefs that's too pure and good for the world, what you're looking for is anarchosyndicalism.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:02 PM on May 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
But this ad that you're so offended by? It's making no claims about the future other than "Donald Trump won in the US, and Marine Le Pen can win too." It makes no argument that Le Pen's policies will send France down the road to nuclear catastrophe. If it's "scare tactics" -- what fear is it appealing to?
It's appealing to the (reasonable) fear of a Marine Le Pen government while conveniently omitting any mention of why Macron would be better. I mean, he would be, probably, but his policies are disastrous continuations of neoliberal biz-friendly systems that have been proven time and again to alienate and disadvantage huge swaths of the population--the people who end up so frustrated and powerless that they become the Le Pen/Trump/whatever-right-populist-is-next voters of the future.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:19 PM on May 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's appealing to the (reasonable) fear of a Marine Le Pen government while conveniently omitting any mention of why Macron would be better. I mean, he would be, probably, but his policies are disastrous continuations of neoliberal biz-friendly systems that have been proven time and again to alienate and disadvantage huge swaths of the population--the people who end up so frustrated and powerless that they become the Le Pen/Trump/whatever-right-populist-is-next voters of the future.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:19 PM on May 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
(and I'm not "offended" at all. Bemused and disheartened, sure, but offended? nah.)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:21 PM on May 6, 2017
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:21 PM on May 6, 2017
People who use solid rhetoric to persuade people toward liberalism are fine, I guess, so long as we gotta keep up a popular front against fascism.
People who use solid rhetoric to persuade people toward the left are good people doing good work.
Could we, like, pretend that all of us aren't on the left here and that not being on the left isn't somehow just "fine, I guess"?
Because these kinds of statements are *really* otherizing, and, when we've had MeTa after MeTa about how Democrats should have been kinder to the left wing in the fall, it's a little irritating to see the same three or four people do the exact same thing to the rest of us.
(And, honestly? A lot of this is the reason I'm way, way more centrist than I was a year ago. I grew sick of the constant demonization and the overt hostility to people who aren't extremely in the leftist camp.)
posted by steady-state strawberry at 7:24 PM on May 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
People who use solid rhetoric to persuade people toward the left are good people doing good work.
Could we, like, pretend that all of us aren't on the left here and that not being on the left isn't somehow just "fine, I guess"?
Because these kinds of statements are *really* otherizing, and, when we've had MeTa after MeTa about how Democrats should have been kinder to the left wing in the fall, it's a little irritating to see the same three or four people do the exact same thing to the rest of us.
(And, honestly? A lot of this is the reason I'm way, way more centrist than I was a year ago. I grew sick of the constant demonization and the overt hostility to people who aren't extremely in the leftist camp.)
posted by steady-state strawberry at 7:24 PM on May 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
People who use solid rhetoric to persuade people to buy things are doing evil. (I mean, I'm not blaming you or whatever. capitalism forces us to do evil. that's why we must end it.)
Piffle. Many if not most sales contacts happen because people are already looking to purchase something. Effective sales - absent when people are shilling homeopathy or other fraudulent products - is not getting someone to buy something they don't need/want, it's helping them find and decide on what they do want. As a young man I did sales and, while I found it draining as an introvert, I did well at it. And I did so precisely because I wasn't trying to close every purchase and push people into what they didn't need/want, but instead used my expertise in that product area to help them decide on the right thing for themselves.
Using such techniques to connect with prospective democratic voters is exactly the same thing. It's exactly what's been discussed above with regards to not trying to convert people who will never vote dem. Those are the people who are not interested in buying. Spending time with them is a waste of their time and ours. The people who should be "sold" are the ones who show they're actually open to "buy" and who we need to guide to the decision of what they would actually be happy with. If they reveal themselves to only be interested in denying women the right to choose then you say we have nothing for you and move right on. Good sales rhetoric is never about tricking someone into a bad choice, no matter what the stereotype of a bad salesperson leads folks to believe.
posted by phearlez at 7:27 PM on May 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
Piffle. Many if not most sales contacts happen because people are already looking to purchase something. Effective sales - absent when people are shilling homeopathy or other fraudulent products - is not getting someone to buy something they don't need/want, it's helping them find and decide on what they do want. As a young man I did sales and, while I found it draining as an introvert, I did well at it. And I did so precisely because I wasn't trying to close every purchase and push people into what they didn't need/want, but instead used my expertise in that product area to help them decide on the right thing for themselves.
Using such techniques to connect with prospective democratic voters is exactly the same thing. It's exactly what's been discussed above with regards to not trying to convert people who will never vote dem. Those are the people who are not interested in buying. Spending time with them is a waste of their time and ours. The people who should be "sold" are the ones who show they're actually open to "buy" and who we need to guide to the decision of what they would actually be happy with. If they reveal themselves to only be interested in denying women the right to choose then you say we have nothing for you and move right on. Good sales rhetoric is never about tricking someone into a bad choice, no matter what the stereotype of a bad salesperson leads folks to believe.
posted by phearlez at 7:27 PM on May 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
If you need a break from the day's news and endless Democratic infighting: Republican Governor and worldclass shitstain Matt Bevin got bit by a horse at the Kentucky Derby.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:35 PM on May 6, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:35 PM on May 6, 2017 [25 favorites]
steady-state strawberry - what leads you to believe everyone here is on the left? That's not at all my impression. Not by a long shot.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:37 PM on May 6, 2017
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:37 PM on May 6, 2017
what leads you to believe everyone here is on the left? That's not at all my impression. Not by a long shot.
It is my impression, also by a long shot. My guess would be that only a few folks who don't lean left are participating in these 45 posts.
posted by futz at 7:41 PM on May 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
It is my impression, also by a long shot. My guess would be that only a few folks who don't lean left are participating in these 45 posts.
posted by futz at 7:41 PM on May 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
If this becomes an extended discussion on how you're not really "on the left" unless you believe X (particularly if the critique of not-X involves the word "neoliberalism" in any way), I will be sad.
posted by zachlipton at 7:45 PM on May 6, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:45 PM on May 6, 2017 [16 favorites]
If I had any idea what you mean by left, I could comment.
But I don't; economic left and social left are different things. So is left to a European, vs. left to an American. (Probably even varies within states in the US).
As an American definitely not on the conservative end of the spectrum, I used to confuse "left" with "liberal"; but these are deeply different words. Because each of you could mean something different by "left" there's no easy way to claim that Mefi is "left".
But I think we can certainly say it's got a political slant, and that that slant is not towards the "right" of the American political spectrum.
posted by nat at 7:47 PM on May 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
But I don't; economic left and social left are different things. So is left to a European, vs. left to an American. (Probably even varies within states in the US).
As an American definitely not on the conservative end of the spectrum, I used to confuse "left" with "liberal"; but these are deeply different words. Because each of you could mean something different by "left" there's no easy way to claim that Mefi is "left".
But I think we can certainly say it's got a political slant, and that that slant is not towards the "right" of the American political spectrum.
posted by nat at 7:47 PM on May 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
Good sales rhetoric is never about tricking someone into a bad choice, no matter what the stereotype of a bad salesperson leads folks to believe.
For over a thousand generations, the good salespeople were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the dark times, before the Bad Salesperson brought about the Galactic Kleptocracy.
posted by XMLicious at 7:57 PM on May 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
> Could we, like, pretend that all of us aren't on the left here and that not being on the left isn't somehow just "fine, I guess"?
Okay, so on the one hand I'm definitely using, like, florid voice right now, but on the other hand, digging into the questions raised here is genuinely useful. It's not nice to argue that the cluster of beliefs and behaviors labelled liberalism/social liberalism is fine-but-not-good, but it may be accurate; maybe the reason why more people aren't buying it right now might be because it's not that great. I mean, it beats the hell out of fascism, that's for sure. but maybe it's not that great.
Knocking away the foundational ideas that
1) the Democratic Party has a shared set of values and that
2) these shared values are self-evidently good
is a necessary step toward figuring out how to bring voters to the Democratic Party. These two ideas look good at first glance. The first of these ideas is not true, though, and the second is not persuasive — it rings false and annoying to people who don't already believe it, just like my lefter-than-thou nonsense irritates you.
There's a weird mixture of deep courage of conviction and deep timidity at play in the way people are defending their values. We're quick to declare our values self-evidently correct, but then out of niceness we get all open-minded and vulgar-relativist when asked whether we think some values are better than others. For my part I've become over time convinced that social liberalism really is inadequate to the task of establishing decent living conditions for most people — I've slid from being a college Deaniac in 2004 to being a legitimate socialist loon in 2017 — and as such I've become convinced that as an ideology social liberalism is, well, fine. I guess.
I genuinely believe that if positive change is possible, it's on the left where we'll find it. Just like you genuinely believe in liberalism, and just like corb genuinely believes in conservatism.
I do not think it is self-evidently correct that the values of the left are more ethically sound than the values of the center. But based on experience, I've come to believe that (broadly speaking) left values are sound values — and, frankly, to dislike how bad I am at living up to those values. But I'm not going to apologize for holding those values or for thinking of those values as better than other sets of values.
But all of that aside, the simple possibility of this discussion points up how the idea that the Democratic Party's policy is rooted in empathy and facts (things that are, tsk, harder to sell than the baser drives) is probably getting in the way of clearheadedly figuring out how to promote the Democratic Party. After all, not even all of the members of the Democratic Party coalition itself buy that line.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:06 PM on May 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
Okay, so on the one hand I'm definitely using, like, florid voice right now, but on the other hand, digging into the questions raised here is genuinely useful. It's not nice to argue that the cluster of beliefs and behaviors labelled liberalism/social liberalism is fine-but-not-good, but it may be accurate; maybe the reason why more people aren't buying it right now might be because it's not that great. I mean, it beats the hell out of fascism, that's for sure. but maybe it's not that great.
Knocking away the foundational ideas that
1) the Democratic Party has a shared set of values and that
2) these shared values are self-evidently good
is a necessary step toward figuring out how to bring voters to the Democratic Party. These two ideas look good at first glance. The first of these ideas is not true, though, and the second is not persuasive — it rings false and annoying to people who don't already believe it, just like my lefter-than-thou nonsense irritates you.
There's a weird mixture of deep courage of conviction and deep timidity at play in the way people are defending their values. We're quick to declare our values self-evidently correct, but then out of niceness we get all open-minded and vulgar-relativist when asked whether we think some values are better than others. For my part I've become over time convinced that social liberalism really is inadequate to the task of establishing decent living conditions for most people — I've slid from being a college Deaniac in 2004 to being a legitimate socialist loon in 2017 — and as such I've become convinced that as an ideology social liberalism is, well, fine. I guess.
I genuinely believe that if positive change is possible, it's on the left where we'll find it. Just like you genuinely believe in liberalism, and just like corb genuinely believes in conservatism.
I do not think it is self-evidently correct that the values of the left are more ethically sound than the values of the center. But based on experience, I've come to believe that (broadly speaking) left values are sound values — and, frankly, to dislike how bad I am at living up to those values. But I'm not going to apologize for holding those values or for thinking of those values as better than other sets of values.
But all of that aside, the simple possibility of this discussion points up how the idea that the Democratic Party's policy is rooted in empathy and facts (things that are, tsk, harder to sell than the baser drives) is probably getting in the way of clearheadedly figuring out how to promote the Democratic Party. After all, not even all of the members of the Democratic Party coalition itself buy that line.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:06 PM on May 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
But all of that aside, the simple possibility of this discussion points up how the idea that the Democratic Party's policy is rooted in empathy and facts (things that are, tsk, harder to sell than the baser drives) is probably getting in the way of clearheadedly figuring out how to promote the Democratic Party. After all, not even all of the members of the Democratic Party coalition buy that line.
It's so hard to believe that Democrats are more interested in truth than Republicans that "facts have a liberal bias" is a staple of the lexicon. And I while I'm sure there's many reasons for Democrats' desire to insure people, provide welfare, reduce bigotry/racism, minimize gun deaths, etc., I don't think it's difficult to buy that empathy and concern for others is a big part of that. The Democratic Party is far from perfect, but it's lightyears from Republicans in those regards.
posted by chris24 at 8:26 PM on May 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's so hard to believe that Democrats are more interested in truth than Republicans that "facts have a liberal bias" is a staple of the lexicon. And I while I'm sure there's many reasons for Democrats' desire to insure people, provide welfare, reduce bigotry/racism, minimize gun deaths, etc., I don't think it's difficult to buy that empathy and concern for others is a big part of that. The Democratic Party is far from perfect, but it's lightyears from Republicans in those regards.
posted by chris24 at 8:26 PM on May 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Mod note: If you want to argue about "What IS the Left, really?" you first need to go read EVERY. SINGLE. POLITICS. THREAD. for the last 24 months, and then, if you have something to say that has not already been said, you can post it. But if it's already been said -- which I guarantee it has been, ad nauseum, I am going to delete it because I am going to stab my eyes out with a pencil if I have to read one more argument about What The Left Really Is up in here.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 8:28 PM on May 6, 2017 [67 favorites]
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 8:28 PM on May 6, 2017 [67 favorites]
> Politics doesn't begin and end in the US, though, and Left and Right have established meanings that are necessary to place various countries' political conflicts in a larger context.
Well but also, the terms aren't just about positioning relative to each other; they refer to genuinely distinct answers to the question of what is to be done to make society more prosperous and just. If you think it's possible to make capitalism a just system, you're almost certainly a liberal; if you think there's not much of a need for state protections against the excesses of capitalism, you're probably a classical liberal/libertarian, if you think that capitalism is a good idea but that the state should take measures to smooth out income distributions and otherwise regularize capitalist markets, you're some flavor of social liberal.
Meanwhile, if you think that capitalism itself is a serious problem, you're somewhere on the left. if you think that reformist electoral politics can be used to implement policies that gradually replace capitalism with something better, you're probably a social democrat (and you probably talk a lot about Keynes). If you think that a vanguard party can guide/force the development of a worker's state, congrats, you're a Bolshevik — I hope you enjoy selling Trotskyist newsletters! If, on the other hand, you think that the state itself is inherently capitalist and must be done away with in whole, you just might be an anarchist.
You can arrange all of these beliefs on a left-right spectrum, if you'd like, but really it's not about positionality — it's about what you think should be done. The thing that unites people believing in all of these different plans is that for the most part we all agree that the top priority right now is smashing the new global fascist movement.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:34 PM on May 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
Well but also, the terms aren't just about positioning relative to each other; they refer to genuinely distinct answers to the question of what is to be done to make society more prosperous and just. If you think it's possible to make capitalism a just system, you're almost certainly a liberal; if you think there's not much of a need for state protections against the excesses of capitalism, you're probably a classical liberal/libertarian, if you think that capitalism is a good idea but that the state should take measures to smooth out income distributions and otherwise regularize capitalist markets, you're some flavor of social liberal.
Meanwhile, if you think that capitalism itself is a serious problem, you're somewhere on the left. if you think that reformist electoral politics can be used to implement policies that gradually replace capitalism with something better, you're probably a social democrat (and you probably talk a lot about Keynes). If you think that a vanguard party can guide/force the development of a worker's state, congrats, you're a Bolshevik — I hope you enjoy selling Trotskyist newsletters! If, on the other hand, you think that the state itself is inherently capitalist and must be done away with in whole, you just might be an anarchist.
You can arrange all of these beliefs on a left-right spectrum, if you'd like, but really it's not about positionality — it's about what you think should be done. The thing that unites people believing in all of these different plans is that for the most part we all agree that the top priority right now is smashing the new global fascist movement.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:34 PM on May 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
My Kid Has A Disability; I Can’t Vote Red Anymore
TL;DR
She voted to fuck everyone over until it affected her child and her family.
posted by futz at 8:38 PM on May 6, 2017 [48 favorites]
TL;DR
She voted to fuck everyone over until it affected her child and her family.
posted by futz at 8:38 PM on May 6, 2017 [48 favorites]
futz, that story makes me think about the whole "nobody notices when women say things," part of reality. Except applied to Democrats. Because Dems/liberals have been yelling, for months, at people like that HEY YOUR KID COULD DIE IF YOU VOTE FOR THIS GUY and it was like they couldn't hear us/didn't believe us. But then oh shit it looks like their kid COULD die and now they can believe it.
Every women who has ever had her prediction of disaster ignored in a meeting, and later everyone runs around screaming HOW COULD WE HAVE KNOWN, knows this feeling. To be a liberal is to have that Cassandra feeling every damn day.
posted by emjaybee at 8:43 PM on May 6, 2017 [61 favorites]
Every women who has ever had her prediction of disaster ignored in a meeting, and later everyone runs around screaming HOW COULD WE HAVE KNOWN, knows this feeling. To be a liberal is to have that Cassandra feeling every damn day.
posted by emjaybee at 8:43 PM on May 6, 2017 [61 favorites]
Because Dems/liberals have been yelling, for months, at people like that HEY YOUR KID COULD DIE IF YOU VOTE FOR THIS GUY
Disabled people - adults - have also been doing this; we do grow up.
posted by spaceman_spiff at 8:48 PM on May 6, 2017 [21 favorites]
Disabled people - adults - have also been doing this; we do grow up.
posted by spaceman_spiff at 8:48 PM on May 6, 2017 [21 favorites]
She voted to fuck everyone over until it affected her child and her family.
It's so limiting, to have to only learn from one's own experiences.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:49 PM on May 6, 2017 [32 favorites]
It's so limiting, to have to only learn from one's own experiences.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:49 PM on May 6, 2017 [32 favorites]
On her blog, in the comments, she says "in presidential elections [she hasn't] voted Republican for a long time" and that the post which became a HuffPo piece is about forswearing voting for Republicans at any level.
posted by XMLicious at 8:58 PM on May 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by XMLicious at 8:58 PM on May 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Well good for you, lady, but still you can go fuck yourself for only caring about your own.
posted by Lyme Drop at 9:01 PM on May 6, 2017
posted by Lyme Drop at 9:01 PM on May 6, 2017
> She voted to fuck everyone over until it affected her child and her family.
I'd say this was harsh but fair, but it isn't even harsh. That's literally what she says.
"... Having lived in multiple states ... any time we are heading to a red state I cringe and I worry about what will be available and if my son will have access to a free and appropriate education."
And yet in spite of that, she has "leaned Republican in past elections (on foreign policy, military budget, states’ rights, and fiscal conservatism)". What did you think those words referred to, lady? Just denying those other people the services they need? Surprised that the leopards came for you, too?
> "I have found that a number of friends in the disability community feel the same way."
As the parent of a disabled child, this just broke my brain. A "number" of "friends" "feel the same way"? Where have you been?
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:03 PM on May 6, 2017 [14 favorites]
I'd say this was harsh but fair, but it isn't even harsh. That's literally what she says.
"... Having lived in multiple states ... any time we are heading to a red state I cringe and I worry about what will be available and if my son will have access to a free and appropriate education."
And yet in spite of that, she has "leaned Republican in past elections (on foreign policy, military budget, states’ rights, and fiscal conservatism)". What did you think those words referred to, lady? Just denying those other people the services they need? Surprised that the leopards came for you, too?
> "I have found that a number of friends in the disability community feel the same way."
As the parent of a disabled child, this just broke my brain. A "number" of "friends" "feel the same way"? Where have you been?
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:03 PM on May 6, 2017 [14 favorites]
So, SNL is disappointing so far. The week of AHCA passing and god knows how many other obscenities since the last show and the political cold open goes after... the Joe and Mika relationship on Morning Joe. And the other political skit is a lame "Where in the world is KellyAnne Conway" kid gameshow bit. Who cares since there's currently active dangerous/damaging people in the admin to worry about. Each passing episode seems like they go for easier, less controversial, more typical administration jokes.
posted by chris24 at 9:05 PM on May 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by chris24 at 9:05 PM on May 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Pre-existing Conditions (comic)
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:11 PM on May 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:11 PM on May 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
Melissa McCarthy is hosting next week, so hopefully they'll have a head start on next week's show. Tonight seems to be one of those "hey did you know [host] likes to sing?" episodes. Also, this live at 8:30pm thing is gonna really screw up my sleep.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:11 PM on May 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Room 641-A at 9:11 PM on May 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Next week's a rerun, R641.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:16 PM on May 6, 2017
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:16 PM on May 6, 2017
Dammit, this is the second time I've done that. Weekend Update is on point, though!
posted by Room 641-A at 9:17 PM on May 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Room 641-A at 9:17 PM on May 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
the main reason Republicans believe what they believe isn't good marketing
I dunno those Reagan albums where Michael Deaver's Producing, like, Morning n America, those were definitely not "good" marketing - super-corny, slow motion stand-in for mainstreet Maberry. And I thought - sheesh, what sort of an milquetoast middle of the roader would buy this crap for one minute. In fact, its an indictment of his effortless lying and disinterest with the truth. Nobody'd be that stupid to even halfway believe them.
And here we are almost 40 years later and the marketing is racist tropes, abundant ignorance, and weaselly superlatives. Based on the Reagan scenario, we can expect some Regieme from Ivanka, Roger Stone, and god know how but Paul Ryan through 2028.
posted by petebest at 9:31 PM on May 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
I dunno those Reagan albums where Michael Deaver's Producing, like, Morning n America, those were definitely not "good" marketing - super-corny, slow motion stand-in for mainstreet Maberry. And I thought - sheesh, what sort of an milquetoast middle of the roader would buy this crap for one minute. In fact, its an indictment of his effortless lying and disinterest with the truth. Nobody'd be that stupid to even halfway believe them.
And here we are almost 40 years later and the marketing is racist tropes, abundant ignorance, and weaselly superlatives. Based on the Reagan scenario, we can expect some Regieme from Ivanka, Roger Stone, and god know how but Paul Ryan through 2028.
posted by petebest at 9:31 PM on May 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Wait, it looks like it's a new SNL next week. Carry on.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:50 PM on May 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:50 PM on May 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
"Where in the world is Kellyanne Conway" [video inside] isn't damning political satire, but I thought it was really funny.
And re the picture of the Republicans celebrating in the Rose Garden [video]: "No minority can see all these old white dudes smiling and think, yeah, I think this is going to be great news for us. They look like they just invented Sickle Cell."
Also, please enjoy this photo, which I believe best represents America in 2017.
posted by zachlipton at 9:52 PM on May 6, 2017 [19 favorites]
And re the picture of the Republicans celebrating in the Rose Garden [video]: "No minority can see all these old white dudes smiling and think, yeah, I think this is going to be great news for us. They look like they just invented Sickle Cell."
Also, please enjoy this photo, which I believe best represents America in 2017.
posted by zachlipton at 9:52 PM on May 6, 2017 [19 favorites]
to all of the people commenting about how to communicate the points made here, thank you so much for delving into the difference between rhetorical communication (works for academic thinkers) and emotion-based communication (for all humans). I will be using the baby killer line that sotonohoto dropped here earlier when I talk to Trump supporters, not that there are very many here in PDX.
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 10:00 PM on May 6, 2017
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 10:00 PM on May 6, 2017
Thank you, zachlipton. That photo is a better mood lifter than guinea pig photos and "Go Home, you're drunk" memes. Not quite as good as yesterday's kitten video from the forever person of a kitten I helped out with, but that's hard to beat.
posted by monopas at 10:13 PM on May 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by monopas at 10:13 PM on May 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
Ok here's the full Where in the World Is Kellyanne Conway video [most probably geoblocked, sorry], including the song. I will fully admit that a good chunk of why I laughed so hard is 90s nostalgia appreciation for just how far they went to recreate that show.
posted by zachlipton at 10:16 PM on May 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 10:16 PM on May 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
This tweet captured my favorite bit from Weekend Update.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:35 PM on May 6, 2017
posted by Room 641-A at 10:35 PM on May 6, 2017
Laura Vozzella, WaPo: Do Corey Stewart’s Confederate antics help Ed Gillespie or hurt the GOP brand?
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:45 PM on May 6, 2017
“The rest of the country’s looking at us and saying, ‘Look at these hicks in Virginia!’ ” said Brian W. Schoeneman, a Virginia political analyst and blogger who served in the George W. Bush administration. “They don’t realize that he’s not representative of the broader GOP and the vast majority of us — including Ed — are looking at him with horror.”Stewart made his bones with anti-immigrant legislation, but I hope the Virginia that allowed his rise to power is dead. The election is soon enough that there should be lots of outrage left. I hope.
But Stewart says defending Confederate symbols against “political correctness” is not just a cause, it’s a winning strategy in an off-year primary.
“It’s a very small turnout election — we’re talking maybe 4 or 5 percent of the entire voter base,” he said. “So you’ve got a certain percentage of the electorate who are going to vote on abortion. You’ve got a certain percentage of the electorate who are going to vote on illegal immigration. And then there’s going to be a percentage who will vote on the historical-monuments issue. Pretty soon, you add them all up and it’s a significant portion of people.”
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:45 PM on May 6, 2017
Trump is a Tyrant: The Devolution of an Argument, Cory Robin:
I find this a fascinating and remarkable turn of the argument. If you step back and look at the trajectory of the claim, what you see is that the scope and scale of Trump’s politics has dramatically shrunk. It’s gone from a demagogic mass movement in possession of state power—that is, the entire field of state and society—to a more a limited field of the consolidated state, to, now, not just one man, but something even more removed from the public realm, something more interior: one man’s motives and intentions. The setting is no longer a polity; it’s a psyche. As if public life itself now transpires—and can be understood by what happens—in one man’s head. And in this regard, I think Trump’s critics mirror what Trump thinks about himself: he is the terrain of politics.posted by Joseph Gurl at 11:03 PM on May 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
As Montesquieu understood, that is the hallmark of a despotic regime: all of politics is reduced to the space of the tyrant’s head. In such a regime, politics is focused entirely on a “man whose five senses constantly tell him that he is everything and that others are nothing.” The irony is that the only ones, besides Trump, who seem to believe that this implosion of political space describes or can account for our current moment are his critics.
Congcong Zhang (Washington Post Researcher in China): I was threatened, harassed and forced to delete recordings and photos of The Kushner family recruiting Chinese investors in US Green cards.
A photo taken during the presentation with Trump's picture on the chart which identifies him as a "key decision maker" on EB-5 investor visa program.
posted by bluecore at 11:12 PM on May 6, 2017 [35 favorites]
A photo taken during the presentation with Trump's picture on the chart which identifies him as a "key decision maker" on EB-5 investor visa program.
posted by bluecore at 11:12 PM on May 6, 2017 [35 favorites]
I'm a little confused about the green-card investor visa outrage. It's hardly new (I know people who have done it, even). Is there something I'm mising?
posted by Joseph Gurl at 3:00 AM on May 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Joseph Gurl at 3:00 AM on May 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
The American Health Care Act: Choose Your Plan!
posted by valkane at 3:31 AM on May 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by valkane at 3:31 AM on May 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm a little confused about the green-card investor visa outrage.
The promoters didn't use to be the President's inlaws, and it wasn't promoted with the implication that they were effectively in control of the process.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:32 AM on May 7, 2017 [29 favorites]
The promoters didn't use to be the President's inlaws, and it wasn't promoted with the implication that they were effectively in control of the process.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:32 AM on May 7, 2017 [29 favorites]
> I'm a little confused about the green-card investor visa outrage.
I think the outrage is due to the implied (or perhaps even explicit) "Invest in Kushner Co holdings, and we'll grease the wheels of immigration for you in a way that other investments cannot."
posted by Westringia F. at 3:53 AM on May 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
I think the outrage is due to the implied (or perhaps even explicit) "Invest in Kushner Co holdings, and we'll grease the wheels of immigration for you in a way that other investments cannot."
posted by Westringia F. at 3:53 AM on May 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
Whoops, I somehow missed Joe's reply above mine.
posted by Westringia F. at 3:55 AM on May 7, 2017
posted by Westringia F. at 3:55 AM on May 7, 2017
Good morning, [western hemisphere] MeFites! Today's fresh hell, courtesy of the WaPo:
Trump questions whether key funding source for historically black colleges is constitutional
Trump questions whether key funding source for historically black colleges is constitutional
In February, President Trump invited leaders from historically black colleges and universities to the White House, a move they hoped signaled his support for the institutions and showed an effort to give them more clout in his administration. But critics had a more cynical description of the Oval Office meeting: a photo op.posted by Westringia F. at 4:00 AM on May 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
Those naysayers got more ammunition Friday after the White House released a signing statement connected to the recently approved federal funding measure. Tucked away in the last paragraph, the White House announced that it would treat a program that helps HBCUs get low-cost construction loans “in a manner consistent with the (Constitutional) requirement to afford equal protection of the laws.”
And, on the visa thing -- there's also the implied stick accompanying the carrot: "Invest in our competitors, and don't be surprised if your investor visa applications get mysteriously lost."
posted by Westringia F. at 4:10 AM on May 7, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by Westringia F. at 4:10 AM on May 7, 2017 [19 favorites]
For reference here's a few previous criminal cases involving EB-5 visas.
Ambitious developer’s fast climb snagged by claims of deception.
San Gabriel Valley raids target scammers who helped wealthy Chinese get U.S. visas, feds say.
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA CASE NO. 16-21301 (PDF)
posted by scalefree at 4:54 AM on May 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Ambitious developer’s fast climb snagged by claims of deception.
San Gabriel Valley raids target scammers who helped wealthy Chinese get U.S. visas, feds say.
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA CASE NO. 16-21301 (PDF)
posted by scalefree at 4:54 AM on May 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Carter Page Is ‘Chump Change’: Former CIA Official Says Russian Ties Go Higher in Trump Admin
Look: the reason Carter Page is being featured is because he’s prominent in the press, not because he’s the most prominent target of the FBI. I think there will eventually be an indictment. Somebody going to be indicted. I don’t know if it’s going to be Carter Page. I think he’s chump change. I think it’s someone higher up.posted by Room 641-A at 5:52 AM on May 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
Mod note: A few deleted. We have THOUSANDS OF COMMENTS on the "dems should be nicer to the right" argument. Please go back and read the kajillion comments on the site chasing our tails on that if you'd like, but let's not do the whole thing again here YET AGAIN just because people are bored or something. If there's no news to talk about, maybe relax a bit. Have a hot or cold beverage, rest your typing fingers.
posted by taz (staff) at 5:59 AM on May 7, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 5:59 AM on May 7, 2017 [26 favorites]
Trump questions whether key funding source for historically black colleges is constitutional
How about all those government land grants to state universities that refused blacks admission?
And of course the very name says 'historically' because they were black-only not by choice but due to segregation/Jim Crow and have since the Civil Rights Act of 1964 admitted all races. And in fact most average 10-20% non-black enrollment and several are majority white.
posted by chris24 at 6:50 AM on May 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
How about all those government land grants to state universities that refused blacks admission?
And of course the very name says 'historically' because they were black-only not by choice but due to segregation/Jim Crow and have since the Civil Rights Act of 1964 admitted all races. And in fact most average 10-20% non-black enrollment and several are majority white.
posted by chris24 at 6:50 AM on May 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
Republican Raul Labrador: "Nobody dies because they don’t have access to health care".
He was misquoted. He actually said "nobodies die because they don't have access to health care".
We're the nobodies.
posted by Talez at 7:39 AM on May 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
He was misquoted. He actually said "nobodies die because they don't have access to health care".
We're the nobodies.
posted by Talez at 7:39 AM on May 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
A lot of good info in this about candidate recruitment, R vulnerabilities (90 districts where Trump got less than 55%), etc. But very interesting that the head of the NRCC admits he's worried he may have 10 more retirements.
‘No District Is Off the Table’: Health Vote Could Put House in Play
‘No District Is Off the Table’: Health Vote Could Put House in Play
Republicans are also worried about the possibility that veteran lawmakers will follow the example of Representative Ileana Ros-Lehtinen of Florida, who last month announced that she was retiring. She represents a district that Mrs. Clinton won by nearly 20 percentage points.posted by chris24 at 7:52 AM on May 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
Mr. Stivers said he had a list of about 10 House Republicans who may be tempted to retire, and whose seats could be difficult to hold. Though he declined to reveal which lawmakers were on the list, he said none of them had told him that they were retiring. At least not yet.
90 districts where Trump got less than 55%
And 80 of them voted for AHCA.
posted by chris24 at 8:04 AM on May 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
And 80 of them voted for AHCA.
posted by chris24 at 8:04 AM on May 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
I google searched the site for this link and got nothing, but for the love of god, someone convince me that the scariest article on the development of a right wing transatlantic technocratic authoritarian surveillance state (with love from Russia) is wrong. From the fucking Guardian.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:34 AM on May 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by schadenfrau at 8:34 AM on May 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
Silver lining: if we take back the House, we will have lots to investigate.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:35 AM on May 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by schadenfrau at 8:35 AM on May 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
The risk, of course, is that when/if the Dems take back the house, they will cave to the suddenly critical impulse to "look forward" and "not play the blame game" and so won't actually go after the miscreants, felons and traitors that are currently wallowing in power.
(See also, the neglect in investigating/prosecuting Iraqi war crimes, the big banks who crashed our economy, etc., etc.)
Of course, I'd still rather have the Dems in control of Congress. The alternative, as we are seeing, is far worse.
But the fact that Kissinger, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Jamie Dimon are still walking around free is a testimony to the willful neglect and fecklessness of Democratic investigations.
posted by darkstar at 8:47 AM on May 7, 2017 [18 favorites]
(See also, the neglect in investigating/prosecuting Iraqi war crimes, the big banks who crashed our economy, etc., etc.)
Of course, I'd still rather have the Dems in control of Congress. The alternative, as we are seeing, is far worse.
But the fact that Kissinger, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Jamie Dimon are still walking around free is a testimony to the willful neglect and fecklessness of Democratic investigations.
posted by darkstar at 8:47 AM on May 7, 2017 [18 favorites]
On a more cheery note, it thaws my heart a bit to see that the ActBlue page for donations to fire those 24 most vulnerable GOP Representatives has now passed $1.4 million, for an average of $56k per race.
posted by darkstar at 8:52 AM on May 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by darkstar at 8:52 AM on May 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
MetaFilter: See what you have wrought.
posted by scalefree at 8:52 AM on May 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by scalefree at 8:52 AM on May 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
On a more cheery note, it thaws my heart a bit to see that the ActBlue page for donations to fire those 24 most vulnerable GOP Representatives has now passed $1.4 million, for an average of $56k per race.
In addition to ActBlue, there were ones by DailyKos and SwingLeft. Combined they raised over $2M in 24 hours.
posted by chris24 at 9:03 AM on May 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
In addition to ActBlue, there were ones by DailyKos and SwingLeft. Combined they raised over $2M in 24 hours.
posted by chris24 at 9:03 AM on May 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
Update: the convention was so good you guys. Clear, practical plans for the future, policy! Base expansion! Interclass and inter-racial strategy and outreach! Decent catered lunch! Hope for the future , actual city concuil membered backed, mass singing of solitary forever in a church ! People I don't like wit! Excellent buttons! A formal crafting committee formed.
I'm sure I'll come down from it soon but dear god I needed that light and positivity.
posted by The Whelk at 9:07 AM on May 7, 2017 [20 favorites]
I'm sure I'll come down from it soon but dear god I needed that light and positivity.
posted by The Whelk at 9:07 AM on May 7, 2017 [20 favorites]
Noice.
Chicago mayor Emanuel posts EPA’s deleted climate change page
Chicago mayor Emanuel posts EPA’s deleted climate change page
The new section of the City of Chicago’s website, launched this weekend, pulls data from the archived Environmental Protection Agency page, noting, “while this information may not be readily available on the agency’s webpage right now, here in Chicago we know climate change is real and we will continue to take action to fight it.” Emanuel is promising to build the site out more in the coming weeks, using city resources.posted by Room 641-A at 9:16 AM on May 7, 2017 [58 favorites]
Looks like Eric Trump could be the undercooked-idiot-vampire-inadvertent-hero we all need.
“I said, 'Eric, who’s funding? I know no banks — because of the recession, the Great Recession — have touched a golf course. You know, no one’s funding any kind of golf construction. It’s dead in the water the last four or five years.'” the writer said. “And this is what he said. He said, 'Well, we don’t rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia.' I said, 'Really?' And he said, 'Oh, yeah. We’ve got some guys that really, really love golf, and they’re really invested in our programmes. We just go there all the time.’”
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:36 AM on May 7, 2017 [60 favorites]
“I said, 'Eric, who’s funding? I know no banks — because of the recession, the Great Recession — have touched a golf course. You know, no one’s funding any kind of golf construction. It’s dead in the water the last four or five years.'” the writer said. “And this is what he said. He said, 'Well, we don’t rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia.' I said, 'Really?' And he said, 'Oh, yeah. We’ve got some guys that really, really love golf, and they’re really invested in our programmes. We just go there all the time.’”
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:36 AM on May 7, 2017 [60 favorites]
Looks like Eric Trump could be the undercooked-idiot-vampire-inadvertent-hero we all need.
"I can handle things! I'm smart! Not like everybody says...like dumb...I'm smart and I want respect!"
posted by kirkaracha at 9:56 AM on May 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
Special Snowflake Scott Walker Has A Meltdown About Ryancare
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:59 AM on May 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:59 AM on May 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
Everyone! Go to ahca.republican to choose your AHCA health plan!
I have no idea who put that up, but I bow down before them.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:05 AM on May 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
I have no idea who put that up, but I bow down before them.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:05 AM on May 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
Everyone! Go to ahca.republican to choose your AHCA health plan!
I have no idea who put that up, but I bow down before them.
Clicking on a casket takes you to the Democratic Socialists of America.
But even those are too rich for my blood. Cremation + empty can of Folgers for me.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:20 AM on May 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
I have no idea who put that up, but I bow down before them.
Clicking on a casket takes you to the Democratic Socialists of America.
But even those are too rich for my blood. Cremation + empty can of Folgers for me.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:20 AM on May 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
Macron 65-35 projected.
Thank fuck for that.
posted by Talez at 11:14 AM on May 7, 2017 [29 favorites]
Thank fuck for that.
posted by Talez at 11:14 AM on May 7, 2017 [29 favorites]
Le Pen concedes
posted by XMLicious at 11:15 AM on May 7, 2017 [35 favorites]
posted by XMLicious at 11:15 AM on May 7, 2017 [35 favorites]
Not quite the embarrassment that France handed her father. 35% of French people thinking racism, nationalism, and xenophobia are the answer is still worrying.
posted by Talez at 11:19 AM on May 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Talez at 11:19 AM on May 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
More like 27%, because 8% handed in blank ballots.
27%. Holy shit, that's pure.
posted by maudlin at 11:20 AM on May 7, 2017 [20 favorites]
27%. Holy shit, that's pure.
posted by maudlin at 11:20 AM on May 7, 2017 [20 favorites]
Clicking on a casket takes you to the Democratic Socialists of America.
But even those are too rich for my blood. Cremation + empty can of Folgers for me.
You can afford Folgers??? Luxury!
We have to soak pencil shavings in a cup of tepid pond water for our pick-me-ups. None of those hoity-toity cans for me. It's a scattering or nothing!
*goes back to relax in his paper bag in a septic tank*
posted by darkstar at 11:22 AM on May 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
But even those are too rich for my blood. Cremation + empty can of Folgers for me.
You can afford Folgers??? Luxury!
We have to soak pencil shavings in a cup of tepid pond water for our pick-me-ups. None of those hoity-toity cans for me. It's a scattering or nothing!
*goes back to relax in his paper bag in a septic tank*
posted by darkstar at 11:22 AM on May 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Oh, wait: that's really not right. I'm reading that it's more like 60 Macron, 32 Le Pen, 8 Richard Hell.
posted by maudlin at 11:23 AM on May 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by maudlin at 11:23 AM on May 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Macron headed for a ~31 point win, which will mean polls underestimated him by ~7 pt. A bigger error than Brexit and much bigger than Trump!
7pt polling error is not great and doesn't help redeem polling's reputation in the 21st century, but at least it worked against the right wing fascist for once.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:24 AM on May 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
7pt polling error is not great and doesn't help redeem polling's reputation in the 21st century, but at least it worked against the right wing fascist for once.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:24 AM on May 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
le pwn
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:25 AM on May 7, 2017 [41 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:25 AM on May 7, 2017 [41 favorites]
I'm reading that it's more like 60 Macron, 32 Le Pen, 8 Richard Hell
Fascism comes in spurts.
posted by Lyme Drop at 11:27 AM on May 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Fascism comes in spurts.
posted by Lyme Drop at 11:27 AM on May 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
A Reverse-Trump Tax Plan Delivers an Economic Miracle in Sweden
High taxes, strong unions and an equal distribution of wealth.
That’s the recipe for success in a globalized world, according to Magdalena Andersson, the Social Democratic economist who’s also Sweden’s finance minister.
...The numbers are compelling. Sweden has one of the world’s highest tax burdens, with tax revenue about 43 percent of GDP, according to OECD data. The equivalent figure for the U.S. is about 26 percent. Sweden’s economy has grown almost twice as fast as America’s, expanding 3.1 percent last year, compared with 1.6 percent in the U.S.
posted by futz at 11:39 AM on May 7, 2017 [44 favorites]
High taxes, strong unions and an equal distribution of wealth.
That’s the recipe for success in a globalized world, according to Magdalena Andersson, the Social Democratic economist who’s also Sweden’s finance minister.
...The numbers are compelling. Sweden has one of the world’s highest tax burdens, with tax revenue about 43 percent of GDP, according to OECD data. The equivalent figure for the U.S. is about 26 percent. Sweden’s economy has grown almost twice as fast as America’s, expanding 3.1 percent last year, compared with 1.6 percent in the U.S.
posted by futz at 11:39 AM on May 7, 2017 [44 favorites]
Opposite George!
posted by GrammarMoses at 11:44 AM on May 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by GrammarMoses at 11:44 AM on May 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
> The risk, of course, is that when/if the Dems take back the house, they will cave to the suddenly critical impulse to "look forward" and "not play the blame game" and so won't actually go after the miscreants, felons and traitors that are currently wallowing in power.
Vote for Democrats to get them into office, riot at Democrats when they're in office to get them to do what we want.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:00 PM on May 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
Vote for Democrats to get them into office, riot at Democrats when they're in office to get them to do what we want.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:00 PM on May 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
France24 was just interviewing another member of the National Front named Guy Deballe, who if I'm correctly interpreting this French BBC article (Google translate) is of Central African origin, is a former member of the Socialist Party, and is now the Secretary General of a group called "Banlieues Patriotes", banlieue being the word for the outskirts of a city where in modern France the non-white population is more concentrated in more impoverished communities.
The BBC quotes Deballe saying « Le racisme existe partout, c'est un faux problème »—"Racism exists everywhere, it's a false problem."
France24 (livestream, in English) commentators predict that Macron will need to seek coalition with the Socialists to get traction in the broader government. Their current estimate of his vote tally is 65.8% which has crept up from 65.5% since I've been watching.
They also went through an analysis of right-wing American Twitter accounts promoting the Macron "leaks" and fake news related to them during the final 24h media blackout.
If I gather correctly there's another round of lower-level elections in a month or so and Deballe is a candidate.
posted by XMLicious at 12:12 PM on May 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
The BBC quotes Deballe saying « Le racisme existe partout, c'est un faux problème »—"Racism exists everywhere, it's a false problem."
France24 (livestream, in English) commentators predict that Macron will need to seek coalition with the Socialists to get traction in the broader government. Their current estimate of his vote tally is 65.8% which has crept up from 65.5% since I've been watching.
They also went through an analysis of right-wing American Twitter accounts promoting the Macron "leaks" and fake news related to them during the final 24h media blackout.
If I gather correctly there's another round of lower-level elections in a month or so and Deballe is a candidate.
posted by XMLicious at 12:12 PM on May 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
Vote for Democrats to get them into office, riot at Democrats when they're in office to get them to do what we want.
I think this is important. Elected representatives - from local city councils on to the President - should be, maybe not afraid of their constituents, but aware that their constituents are who they serve. I believe that for too long, many elected officials, on both sides, just blithely went along believing (often rightly) that their constituents were apathetic at best and they didn't really have to answer to them.
Well, guess what! We can demand that they do their jobs! It's important that we both hold our representatives' feet to the fire when they don't do their jobs and to thank them when they do.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 12:15 PM on May 7, 2017 [16 favorites]
I think this is important. Elected representatives - from local city councils on to the President - should be, maybe not afraid of their constituents, but aware that their constituents are who they serve. I believe that for too long, many elected officials, on both sides, just blithely went along believing (often rightly) that their constituents were apathetic at best and they didn't really have to answer to them.
Well, guess what! We can demand that they do their jobs! It's important that we both hold our representatives' feet to the fire when they don't do their jobs and to thank them when they do.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 12:15 PM on May 7, 2017 [16 favorites]
Niki Minaj to the rescue, paying for some fans' college tuition and supplies.
posted by Room 641-A at 12:25 PM on May 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 12:25 PM on May 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
Stewart made his bones with anti-immigrant legislation, but I hope the Virginia that allowed his rise to power is dead.
It's not remotely dead, but up here on the Northern tip - you know, those of us who actually pay taxes and fund much of the roads for most of these jerks - have continued to expand in quantity. Virginia is a state-level representation of the fact that people vote, not land. It's quite interesting to look at the house representation map and see that 8 & 11 (resoundingly D) could fit into 10 (marginally R) 3 or 4 times over. 8, 10 & 11 could just about fit into 3 (also resoundingly D).
Oh what the heck. Pulling the district sq mile data from wikipedia I come up with this:
District,SQ miles,Currently held by,R Sq miles,D Sq miles
Virginia 1st,"3,684.32",R,"3,684.32",0
Virginia 2nd,991.68,R,991.68,0
Virginia 3rd,947.10,D,0,947.10
Virginia 4th,"4,310.34",D,0,"4,310.34"
Virginia 5th,"10,029.79",R,"10,029.79",0
Virginia 6th,"5,930.02",R,"5,930.02",0
Virginia 7th,"2,776.39",R,"2,776.39",0
Virginia 8th,149.24,D,0,149.24
Virginia 9th,"9,113.87",R,"9,113.87",0
Virginia 10th,"1,372.24",R,"1,372.24",0
Virginia 11th,185.09,D,0,185.09
So that's Rs representing 33,898.31 square miles, Ds representing 5,591.77. And that's giving Rs Comstock's VA-10, which polls marginally D.
Trying to read the tea leaves on how this will actually sort out on the governor race is hard to figure. It was a lot closer for HRC than had been expected, though it was for her eventually, so in that sense Stewart is not wrong: it's going to matter who shows up.
Based on the current mood I'm somewhat optimistic that it's these D districts that are going to be more energized to show up. But who knows? You could probably get a slightly better sense looking at comparative turnout numbers. Here in Arlington we're fairly good about turning out on the off years; 2012 to 2013 we had 57% of the voters come back. But at statewide level it was 3,858,043 Presidential votes in 2012 compared to 2,241,071 Governor votes in 2013 - 58%.
Oh dammit now I am really down this rabbit hole; the VA elections board has historical results back almost 100 years... downloadable as spreadsheets. I'm going to have to do a turnout & margin comparison by county. In 13 municipalities a retention rate that was greater than average coincided with a D win for that area but in 31 cases Ds won even with a lower than state average turnout.
It is tempting to spreadsheet this all day long but I'm gonna show some restraint and leave it at that. Though I do want to know if retention rate by D/R vote predicts anything...
posted by phearlez at 12:26 PM on May 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
It's not remotely dead, but up here on the Northern tip - you know, those of us who actually pay taxes and fund much of the roads for most of these jerks - have continued to expand in quantity. Virginia is a state-level representation of the fact that people vote, not land. It's quite interesting to look at the house representation map and see that 8 & 11 (resoundingly D) could fit into 10 (marginally R) 3 or 4 times over. 8, 10 & 11 could just about fit into 3 (also resoundingly D).
Oh what the heck. Pulling the district sq mile data from wikipedia I come up with this:
District,SQ miles,Currently held by,R Sq miles,D Sq miles
Virginia 1st,"3,684.32",R,"3,684.32",0
Virginia 2nd,991.68,R,991.68,0
Virginia 3rd,947.10,D,0,947.10
Virginia 4th,"4,310.34",D,0,"4,310.34"
Virginia 5th,"10,029.79",R,"10,029.79",0
Virginia 6th,"5,930.02",R,"5,930.02",0
Virginia 7th,"2,776.39",R,"2,776.39",0
Virginia 8th,149.24,D,0,149.24
Virginia 9th,"9,113.87",R,"9,113.87",0
Virginia 10th,"1,372.24",R,"1,372.24",0
Virginia 11th,185.09,D,0,185.09
So that's Rs representing 33,898.31 square miles, Ds representing 5,591.77. And that's giving Rs Comstock's VA-10, which polls marginally D.
Trying to read the tea leaves on how this will actually sort out on the governor race is hard to figure. It was a lot closer for HRC than had been expected, though it was for her eventually, so in that sense Stewart is not wrong: it's going to matter who shows up.
Based on the current mood I'm somewhat optimistic that it's these D districts that are going to be more energized to show up. But who knows? You could probably get a slightly better sense looking at comparative turnout numbers. Here in Arlington we're fairly good about turning out on the off years; 2012 to 2013 we had 57% of the voters come back. But at statewide level it was 3,858,043 Presidential votes in 2012 compared to 2,241,071 Governor votes in 2013 - 58%.
Oh dammit now I am really down this rabbit hole; the VA elections board has historical results back almost 100 years... downloadable as spreadsheets. I'm going to have to do a turnout & margin comparison by county. In 13 municipalities a retention rate that was greater than average coincided with a D win for that area but in 31 cases Ds won even with a lower than state average turnout.
It is tempting to spreadsheet this all day long but I'm gonna show some restraint and leave it at that. Though I do want to know if retention rate by D/R vote predicts anything...
posted by phearlez at 12:26 PM on May 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
I'm worried about the Virginia race, the Perriello-Northam race continues to be a proxy fight for relitigating the primaries, and if one side's supporters take their ball and go home even a little, Gillespie does not have an obvious Trump supporting record, having never actually held office. They can run him as a NeverTrumper or "moderate", and he'll probably come close no matter what.
But we know there's no such thing as a moderate Republican. If Gillespie wins, his policies will be exactly like Trump or Ken Cuccinelli in office, and cross burning Virginia will be back in full force.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:40 PM on May 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
But we know there's no such thing as a moderate Republican. If Gillespie wins, his policies will be exactly like Trump or Ken Cuccinelli in office, and cross burning Virginia will be back in full force.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:40 PM on May 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
Metafilter: funny if you think about it. Not in a ha-ha funny way though.
posted by Rumple at 12:46 PM on May 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Rumple at 12:46 PM on May 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Room 641-A: Cremation + empty can of Folgers for me.
dark star: You can afford Folgers??? Luxury!
We have to soak pencil shavings in a cup of tepid pond water for our pick-me-ups. None of those hoity-toity cans for me. It's a scattering or nothing!
You had a pond? We had to pee on a tarp until it filled up enough to wade in. I want my ashes to go in the coffee urn in the House break room. Also some of the pee.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:55 PM on May 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
dark star: You can afford Folgers??? Luxury!
We have to soak pencil shavings in a cup of tepid pond water for our pick-me-ups. None of those hoity-toity cans for me. It's a scattering or nothing!
You had a pond? We had to pee on a tarp until it filled up enough to wade in. I want my ashes to go in the coffee urn in the House break room. Also some of the pee.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:55 PM on May 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Sweden has one of the world’s highest tax burdens, with tax revenue about 43 percent of GDP, according to OECD data. The equivalent figure for the U.S. is about 26 percent.
Interactive thingie of sortable OECD historical stats, Tax revenue as % of GDP. 2016 overall report on tax revenues: "Tax revenues reach new high as the tax mix shifts further towards labour and consumption taxes". Amazingly, we aren't even in the bottom four for lowest taxes this year:
(We're fifth-lowest.)Mexico (17.4% in 2015) and Chile (20.7%) have the lowest tax-to-GDP ratios among OECD countries. They are followed by Ireland, which has the third lowest ratio among OECD countries at 23.6%, and Korea at 25.3%.
posted by XMLicious at 12:56 PM on May 7, 2017
Nice takedown by the LA Weekly: The Food at Trump National Golf Club Does Not Match the Scenery
posted by Room 641-A at 1:03 PM on May 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 1:03 PM on May 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Macro's first call as President-elect was, of course, to the leader of the free world. Hopefully he and Merkel had a good conversation.
posted by Justinian at 1:05 PM on May 7, 2017 [39 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 1:05 PM on May 7, 2017 [39 favorites]
The Kushner grift has moved to Shanghai: Trump Looms as Kushners Court Investors in China (NYT)
Like many American firms that come to China looking for money, Kushner Companies on Sunday tried to woo a Shanghai audience with promises of potentially big returns and a path toward living in the United States.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:12 PM on May 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
But for Bi Ting, who attended the event, part of the appeal was political: Jared Kushner is the son-in-law of — and a powerful adviser to — President Trump. Virtually unheard-of in China just months ago, he is now known here as a deeply influential figure in American politics.
“The Trump relationship is an extra point for me,” Ms. Bi said, adding that she and her husband had not decided whether to invest.
If anybody ever again utters the phrase "corrupt Hillary" in my presence, I swear to god I will scream "SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU FUCKING MORON" right in their face.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:17 PM on May 7, 2017 [45 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:17 PM on May 7, 2017 [45 favorites]
Yeah, if anybody tries that HILLARY DIDNT EARN MY VOTE GO JILL STEIN stuff in my presence I will be hard pressed to contain my fury. I think I have a lot of anger pent up in here.
posted by Justinian at 1:22 PM on May 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 1:22 PM on May 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
If anybody ever again utters the phrase "corrupt Hillary" in my presence, I swear to god I will scream "SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU FUCKING MORON" right in their face.
I see your screaming and raise you punching them in their face. There is *nothing* that Hillary Clinton was ever legitimately accused of that rises to the legitimate questions about whether Donald J. Trump raped a 13 year old girl in 1994.
posted by mikelieman at 1:23 PM on May 7, 2017 [18 favorites]
I see your screaming and raise you punching them in their face. There is *nothing* that Hillary Clinton was ever legitimately accused of that rises to the legitimate questions about whether Donald J. Trump raped a 13 year old girl in 1994.
posted by mikelieman at 1:23 PM on May 7, 2017 [18 favorites]
Yeah. That fellow in my gaming group who was all about "Hillary's a warmonger!" back in October showed again a couple weeks back, and I wanted to shout in his face. So bad. /sigh
posted by Archelaus at 1:28 PM on May 7, 2017
posted by Archelaus at 1:28 PM on May 7, 2017
Here's a good Sarah Kliff takedown of Tom Price's obviously absurd claim that millions of people won't lose Medicaid coverage under the AHCA.
More like 27%, because 8% handed in blank ballots.
It's up to 12% now that cast blank or null votes.
posted by zachlipton at 1:29 PM on May 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
More like 27%, because 8% handed in blank ballots.
It's up to 12% now that cast blank or null votes.
posted by zachlipton at 1:29 PM on May 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
A tarp! Luxury!
posted by kirkaracha at 1:29 PM on May 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 1:29 PM on May 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Thank god for the French, at least
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:39 PM on May 7, 2017
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:39 PM on May 7, 2017
Victory for Macron, for France, the EU, & the world.--@HillaryClinton
Defeat to those interfering w/democracy. (But the media says I can't talk about that)
So we get to have this fight all over again. What's it been, like a week? I'm sure Maggie Haberman is rushing to a keyboard as we speak.
posted by zachlipton at 1:40 PM on May 7, 2017 [19 favorites]
Nice takedown by the LA Weekly: The Food at Trump National Golf Club Does Not Match the Scenery
On Thursday nights you might be tempted to opt for the Trump Wine Dinner special, which at $60 for four courses is considered a deal here. But the dishes all have about twice as many ingredients as are necessary; oysters are given a spoonful of caviar, a Chilean sea bass is overpowered by steamed mussels, artichoke hearts and saffron farro; a petit filet comes wrapped in an undercooked piece of bacon and drowned in barbecue sauce (with truffle mash on the side).Moe: Bring us your finest food, stuffed with your second-finest.
Waiter: Very well, the lobster stuffed with tacos.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:41 PM on May 7, 2017 [16 favorites]
Frum: Going to be awkward at 5/25 Nato summit when Merkel, May, & Macron have to switch to non-classified topics when the US president joins them
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:51 PM on May 7, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:51 PM on May 7, 2017 [21 favorites]
I'm sure Maggie Haberman is rushing to a keyboard as we speak.
Fuck Haberman and Thrush and all the rest of the media. I don't recall anyone telling Romney or McCain or Kerry or Gore they needed to shut up and disappear. Or requiring that they self-flagellate and say they were wholly responsible for their defeat. The double standards and misogyny in the press are infuriating.
posted by chris24 at 2:03 PM on May 7, 2017 [34 favorites]
Fuck Haberman and Thrush and all the rest of the media. I don't recall anyone telling Romney or McCain or Kerry or Gore they needed to shut up and disappear. Or requiring that they self-flagellate and say they were wholly responsible for their defeat. The double standards and misogyny in the press are infuriating.
posted by chris24 at 2:03 PM on May 7, 2017 [34 favorites]
Vote for Democrats to get them into office, riot at Democrats when they're in office to get them to do what we want.
seriously. if there is ever another democratic administration i want an inauguration day protest as big as the Women's March to let them know that we're fucking watching and we will punish backsliding not by voting republican or third-party, but by primarying their asses off with more leftist candidates
posted by murphy slaw at 2:03 PM on May 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
seriously. if there is ever another democratic administration i want an inauguration day protest as big as the Women's March to let them know that we're fucking watching and we will punish backsliding not by voting republican or third-party, but by primarying their asses off with more leftist candidates
posted by murphy slaw at 2:03 PM on May 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
Riane Konc, National Lampoon: Trump’s Plans for a Canadian Border Wall
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:06 PM on May 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
One thing I can tell you: we’re going to buy American maple syrup. We’re going to fill that moat with 100% American-made syrup. In Canada, nobody believes this, but things are so bad they’re getting their syrup from trees. From trees, folks. Just terrible. Our beautiful Canadian provinces are in disrepair. We’re going to fill our big, beautiful moat with 100% American syrup, and it’s going to come from a plastic lady, the way God intended. Mrs. Butterworth’s — well, she was married at the time, maybe after I get through with her, she’ll be Ms. Butterworth. But of course, Aunt Jemima — sadly, no longer a 10. It is very hard to be a 10.Some writer. She just copied-and-pasted Trump's speeches, as far as I can tell.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:06 PM on May 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Or requiring that they self-flagellate and say they were wholly responsible for their defeat
Do you follow me on twitter or do we just really think alike on this? :-)
posted by zachlipton at 2:09 PM on May 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
Do you follow me on twitter or do we just really think alike on this? :-)
posted by zachlipton at 2:09 PM on May 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
OMG I love this, from Death and Taxes:
Nazi lady loses French presidential electionposted by Room 641-A at 2:09 PM on May 7, 2017 [43 favorites]
On Sunday, Emmanuel Macron was elected France’s 25th president, beating Nazi lady Marine Le Pen with 65.1% of the vote tallied.
At 39 years old, the former investment banker will become the youngest French president in history.
Le Pen remains a Nazi.
if there is ever another democratic administration i want an inauguration day protest as big as the Women's March to let them know that we're fucking watching and we will punish backsliding not by voting republican or third-party, but by primarying their asses off with more leftist candidates
Oh, for Christ's sake. Seriously?
If there's another Democratic administration, I'm planning to drown my liver with champaign. And then I'm going to go out into the streets and cheer, because the people who 'know we're fucking watching' are the conservatives, and they eat liberal tears for breakfast.
And if you want to primary someone, go ahead and primary them. But if you primary them, you need to return to the fold if your candidate loses. Because 'punishing backsliding' is secondary to making sure the goddamn party stays in power.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 2:12 PM on May 7, 2017 [23 favorites]
Oh, for Christ's sake. Seriously?
If there's another Democratic administration, I'm planning to drown my liver with champaign. And then I'm going to go out into the streets and cheer, because the people who 'know we're fucking watching' are the conservatives, and they eat liberal tears for breakfast.
And if you want to primary someone, go ahead and primary them. But if you primary them, you need to return to the fold if your candidate loses. Because 'punishing backsliding' is secondary to making sure the goddamn party stays in power.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 2:12 PM on May 7, 2017 [23 favorites]
Do you follow me on twitter or do we just really think alike on this? :-)
Ha, I didn't before but I am now. Great minds yadda yadda... :P
posted by chris24 at 2:13 PM on May 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
Ha, I didn't before but I am now. Great minds yadda yadda... :P
posted by chris24 at 2:13 PM on May 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
And if you want to primary someone, go ahead and primary them. But if you primary them, you need to return to the fold if your candidate loses.
obviously, which is why i specified "not punishing them by voting republican or third-party" in the same sentence you're referring to.
Because 'punishing backsliding' is secondary to making sure the goddamn party stays in power.
they're not my party. they're the farthest-left party that has a chance of achieving national office. i'm pragmatist but i'm going to keep pushing the overton window as hard as i can.
posted by murphy slaw at 2:22 PM on May 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
obviously, which is why i specified "not punishing them by voting republican or third-party" in the same sentence you're referring to.
Because 'punishing backsliding' is secondary to making sure the goddamn party stays in power.
they're not my party. they're the farthest-left party that has a chance of achieving national office. i'm pragmatist but i'm going to keep pushing the overton window as hard as i can.
posted by murphy slaw at 2:22 PM on May 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
they're not my party. they're the farthest-left party that has a chance of achieving national office.
Congrats, you're a Democrat, like it or not.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:25 PM on May 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Congrats, you're a Democrat, like it or not.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:25 PM on May 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Mod note: One comment removed, please see mod notes above about letting the how-left-is-left, who-is-this-"we" stuff drop. On preview, likewise I think we're in a "nothing else to talk about, let's just rehash unreconcilable differences of electoral strategy opinion again" space with this and I'd rather folks just take a breather, go do something outside or participate in literally any other thread on the site for a bit instead of going round in circles on that well-trod ground too.
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:28 PM on May 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:28 PM on May 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
my voter registration card agrees with you.
but these days i feel like a vegan in an ovo-lacto vegetarian club. i'm surrounded by people i agree with a lot of the time but i'm still disgusted by some of their habits.
(n.b. i'm not actually vegan)
posted by murphy slaw at 2:30 PM on May 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
but these days i feel like a vegan in an ovo-lacto vegetarian club. i'm surrounded by people i agree with a lot of the time but i'm still disgusted by some of their habits.
(n.b. i'm not actually vegan)
posted by murphy slaw at 2:30 PM on May 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
i feel like a vegan in an ovo-lacto vegetarian club
Shit. By the law of transitive property my political diet equivalent is Donald Trump.
BUILD THE WALL FROM BACON!
posted by Talez at 2:38 PM on May 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
Shit. By the law of transitive property my political diet equivalent is Donald Trump.
BUILD THE WALL FROM BACON!
posted by Talez at 2:38 PM on May 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
Some friends were discussing the French election results on Facebook and a comment mentioned how the Macron campaign hacking had no legs and no impact - unlike the US election hacking - because of the shorter length of their election cycle. It's been discussed in, IIRC, the Guardian, and here on MeFi if I'm not mistaken, how our election cycle is just too long. It forces candidates to campaign endlessly, and nothingburgers get turned into somethingburgers because the media has to have something to do and the public has too much time on their hands to think about Her Emails and other such things.
Thinking about this - I'm inclined to agree. Our election cycles being so long isn't good for our government and elections. So is there anything (realistically!) that can be done?
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 2:52 PM on May 7, 2017 [27 favorites]
Thinking about this - I'm inclined to agree. Our election cycles being so long isn't good for our government and elections. So is there anything (realistically!) that can be done?
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 2:52 PM on May 7, 2017 [27 favorites]
on the other hand, the killing blow to the clinton campaign was delivered by comey in the last weeks of the cycle. it may be that if the election cycle was shorter there would have been less time to set up the ratfuckery, but on the other hand a bunch of stuff that was damaging to trump may not have come out in a shorter window.
the biggest difference between the macron hacks and the dnc/clinton stuff was that the french media refused to engage with it, though it's hard to say how principled they would have been about it without the US's … instructive example. :(
posted by murphy slaw at 3:01 PM on May 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
the biggest difference between the macron hacks and the dnc/clinton stuff was that the french media refused to engage with it, though it's hard to say how principled they would have been about it without the US's … instructive example. :(
posted by murphy slaw at 3:01 PM on May 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
Ari Berman, Nation: Georgia Can’t Block New Voters From Registering in the Ossoff-Handel Runoff
Voter suppression is not an incidental issue in the special election. As Georgia secretary of state from 2006 to 2009, Karen Handel had a long record of making it harder to vote, supporting Georgia’s strict voter-ID law, trying to purge thousands of eligible voters from the rolls before the 2008 election, and repeatedly challenging the residency of qualified Democratic candidates. Handel has bragged about these issues, saying in a TV ad: “As secretary of state, I fought President Obama to implement photo ID and won,” even though Georgia’s voter-ID law was passed in 2005 and took effect in 2007, well before President Obama assumed office.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:02 PM on May 7, 2017 [25 favorites]
From upthread (I've been Tehhund-ing) -- dogfoodsugar, the first half of Isaiah is an excellent source for pissed off social justice Bible passages. And I have no idea why I haven't been sending them to the ostensible Christians running our government but I am totally gonna start, thank you.
"Your princes are rebels and companions of thieves.
Everyone loves a bribe and runs after gifts.
They do not defend the orphan, and the widow's cause does not come before them." (ch2)
"Ah, you who make iniquitous decrees, who write oppressive statutes,
to turn aside the needy from justice and to rob the poor of my people of their right...
For all this his anger has not turned away; his hand is stretched out still." (ch10)
etc., etc., etc.
posted by gerstle at 3:02 PM on May 7, 2017 [14 favorites]
"Your princes are rebels and companions of thieves.
Everyone loves a bribe and runs after gifts.
They do not defend the orphan, and the widow's cause does not come before them." (ch2)
"Ah, you who make iniquitous decrees, who write oppressive statutes,
to turn aside the needy from justice and to rob the poor of my people of their right...
For all this his anger has not turned away; his hand is stretched out still." (ch10)
etc., etc., etc.
posted by gerstle at 3:02 PM on May 7, 2017 [14 favorites]
The statement released by the White House congratulating Macron didn't come from Trump. It's from press secretary Spicy. Meanwhile, Trump personally called Erdogan to congratulate him on becoming a dictator.
Pouty loser.
posted by chris24 at 3:08 PM on May 7, 2017 [38 favorites]
Pouty loser.
posted by chris24 at 3:08 PM on May 7, 2017 [38 favorites]
Axios has a story about how eager White House officials not named Trump are to throw Flynn under the bus. How eager? They don't mind making Trump look like an idiot for hiring and trusting a guy who manipulated him and did a crappy job.
posted by zachlipton at 3:37 PM on May 7, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 3:37 PM on May 7, 2017 [19 favorites]
From that Flynn story: The White House's strategy to push back:
Brand Yates as a Democratic operative who was out to get Trump from the beginning and willing to torque the facts to advance her agenda;
Sally Yates is a career civil servant hired by Republican Bob Barr while he was US Attorney for Georgia under Reagan, later transitioned to main justice where she worked for 20 years including all of the George W Bush administration before being appointed as US Attorney herself by Obama, and then Deputy Attorney General.
Trump's plan is to attack her as a "democratic operative". She's not. She never was. She's been a professional civil servant her entire career. This is nothing less than a broadside against the concept of a professional civil service system.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:13 PM on May 7, 2017 [58 favorites]
Brand Yates as a Democratic operative who was out to get Trump from the beginning and willing to torque the facts to advance her agenda;
Sally Yates is a career civil servant hired by Republican Bob Barr while he was US Attorney for Georgia under Reagan, later transitioned to main justice where she worked for 20 years including all of the George W Bush administration before being appointed as US Attorney herself by Obama, and then Deputy Attorney General.
Trump's plan is to attack her as a "democratic operative". She's not. She never was. She's been a professional civil servant her entire career. This is nothing less than a broadside against the concept of a professional civil service system.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:13 PM on May 7, 2017 [58 favorites]
if they're going with "trump is a clueless dupe" it sounds they're not even going to bother offering a scenario where Flynn was anything but fatally compromised. which explains why they're trying to work the refs against Yates.
it'll probably come to nothing because there's no way 2017 is giving me good news two days in a row.
posted by murphy slaw at 4:13 PM on May 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
it'll probably come to nothing because there's no way 2017 is giving me good news two days in a row.
posted by murphy slaw at 4:13 PM on May 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
During high school I worked in a movie theatre, so popcorn is not my favorite thing, but between tonight's shocking conclusion of The Real Housewives of Atlanta Reunion and tomorrow morning's shocking start of the Sally Yates hearing, this is a perfect popcorn storm.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:14 PM on May 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Room 641-A at 4:14 PM on May 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
This is nothing less than a broadside against the concept of a professional civil service system.
...which is a major theme of the entire Trump Administration.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:26 PM on May 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
...which is a major theme of the entire Trump Administration.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:26 PM on May 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
I would just like to say, on this, the platform where he is most likely to see it:
Do not run for President, Mark Zuckerberg.
Please do not do this thing.
posted by Going To Maine at 4:31 PM on May 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
Do not run for President, Mark Zuckerberg.
Please do not do this thing.
posted by Going To Maine at 4:31 PM on May 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
(I will be interested if my friend who was mad that Clinton gave Goldman Sachs speeches post being Secretary of State because “everyone knew she wanted it” will hold Zuckerberg to the same standard.)
posted by Going To Maine at 4:35 PM on May 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 4:35 PM on May 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
This Shocking Tool Shows How Climate Change Will Transform Your Neighborhood
It’s like Google Maps for the end of the world
It says it's optimized for desktops but appears to mostly work on my iPad in landscape.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:37 PM on May 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
It’s like Google Maps for the end of the world
It says it's optimized for desktops but appears to mostly work on my iPad in landscape.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:37 PM on May 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
You had a pond? We had to pee on a tarp until it filled up enough to wade in.
You could pee?
posted by scalefree at 4:38 PM on May 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
You could pee?
posted by scalefree at 4:38 PM on May 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
this, the platform where he is most likely to see it
...but also highly likely to do the opposite of what he is advised...
If the argument for Trump was that he was too rich to be "bought", expect the same thing, increased exponentially for Zuckerberg.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:42 PM on May 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
...but also highly likely to do the opposite of what he is advised...
If the argument for Trump was that he was too rich to be "bought", expect the same thing, increased exponentially for Zuckerberg.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:42 PM on May 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
James Dodson, legendary golf reporter and author, did an interview with WBUR and dropped this nugget about golfing with the Trumps three years ago:
Also:
"So when I got in the cart with Eric [Trump]," Dodson says, "as we were setting off, I said, 'Eric, who’s funding? I know no banks — because of the recession, the Great Recession — have touched a golf course. You know, no one’s funding any kind of golf construction. It’s dead in the water the last four or five years.' And this is what he said. He said, 'Well, we don’t rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia.' I said, 'Really?' And he said, 'Oh, yeah. We’ve got some guys that really, really love golf, and they’re really invested in our programs. We just go there all the time.' Now that was three years ago, so it was pretty interesting."So, uh, whatever happened to "I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSSIA - NO DEALS, NO LOANS, NO NOTHING!" ?
Also:
"Now we’re at the door. And he’s still got me in the bro hug. And he says, 'Come on, those [interview questions] are nothing. Those are softballs.' And he says, 'One more for the road. Give me something with some mustard.' And this is what I said: 'Well, OK, fair enough. My wife and I watched The Apprentice for the first time the other night in preparation for coming over here. And, honestly, the question that kept popping up in my head is: are you as big an a--hole as you seem? Or do you just play one on TV? And this is what he did. He dropped my arm like it had caught fire spontaneously, stepped back at least a yard, made that kind of constipated furious pig face he makes, slapped my back, doubled over and popped up laughing like you can’t believe and declared, 'Yeah, it’s fun, isn’t it?'posted by zachlipton at 4:57 PM on May 7, 2017 [28 favorites]
(I will be interested if my friend who was mad that Clinton gave Goldman Sachs speeches post being Secretary of State because “everyone knew she wanted it” will hold Zuckerberg to the same standard.)
I guarantee they won't. In fact, memail me if he runs and they do, I'll send you candy.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 5:03 PM on May 7, 2017
I guarantee they won't. In fact, memail me if he runs and they do, I'll send you candy.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 5:03 PM on May 7, 2017
James Dodson, legendary golf reporter and author, did an interview with WBUR and dropped this nugget about golfing with the Trumps three years ago
Did Dodson just wake up from a two year slumber? How did he not think of reporting that during the election?
posted by peeedro at 5:17 PM on May 7, 2017 [24 favorites]
Did Dodson just wake up from a two year slumber? How did he not think of reporting that during the election?
posted by peeedro at 5:17 PM on May 7, 2017 [24 favorites]
He wanted his Supreme Court pick, just like every other Republican.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:24 PM on May 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:24 PM on May 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
Now that he got what he wanted, and sees the writing on the wall that says "treason" and "complicit", out comes the story. Convenient, that.
posted by erisfree at 5:27 PM on May 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by erisfree at 5:27 PM on May 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hint to Republicans who haven't read their Bible recently: by the time you see the writing on the wall, it's too late
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:35 PM on May 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:35 PM on May 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
‘It’s wrong’: Democrats blast Senate GOP’s all-male healthcare group
posted by Room 641-A at 5:47 PM on May 7, 2017 [22 favorites]
U.S. Democrats on Sunday criticized the lack of women on a working group in the Republican-led Senate that will craft a plan to pass legislation to repeal and replace Obamacare.Everyone with an R Senator needs to call and ask why there are no women in the group.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:47 PM on May 7, 2017 [22 favorites]
I guarantee they won't. In fact, memail me if he runs and they do, I'll send you candy.
Anecdotally, I only hear about new Zuckerberg developments from people who did indeed gnash their teeth about Clinton's and Obama's talking to large Wall Street firms for large sums of money, and they all hate the guy.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 5:50 PM on May 7, 2017
Anecdotally, I only hear about new Zuckerberg developments from people who did indeed gnash their teeth about Clinton's and Obama's talking to large Wall Street firms for large sums of money, and they all hate the guy.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 5:50 PM on May 7, 2017
Report from the wild: I spent the afternoon with some hardcore Trump supporters, the kind that proudly call themselves deplorable, and my HRC hating parents.
1. We really need to standardize voting laws on a national level. This whole different rules for different states thing is bullshit. Simplify the process, make it easier for everyone to vote, and make it consistent. My mom has lived in Rhode Island all her life, and the one thing that the Deplorable and I agreed on was our state's primary rules, which my parents did not understand. In RI, independents cannot vote in primaries. You can affiliate at the polling station, vote, and then immediately go to a table to disaffiliate. My mom voted in the Republican primary, but thought the disaffiliation paperwork would make her a registered Democrat instead of an independent again. I eventually pulled up her voter registration on my phone to show her that she is still affiliated Republican. Let independents vote in the primary of their choosing without having to affiliate. Allow same day registration and early voting everywhere. Make voting easy. This needs to be a huge Democratic push.
2. Proud deplorables want to be racist without being called racist. FUCK. THAT. NOISE. I called my dad out a few times, but not the deplorable, as he was my parents' guest, and I need to pick my battles. Deplorable's son in law is a Brazilian immigrant and my dad has a black great-granddaughter. Neither of them displayed any sign of cognitive dissonance. There is no internal logic, and Democrats need to realize this. There is no outreach here. I thought there could be, but I was wrong.
3. To the deplorables, anyone from California is a (homophobic slur). I countered with Reagan, and my dad went off on how anti-union Reagan was. One guess if my dad was in a union. He's still a registered Democrat. We need to address the "fuck you, got mine" in our own party. Not to cater to them, but to try to expand their world view while still keeping them. Not a huge priority though.
4. Speaking of cognitive dissonance, they thought the Clintons were looking to enrich themselves from the position of president, but refuse to believe Trump is literally only doing that.
5. I no longer think Comey threw the election. Racism and sexism did. And it's not because Republicans are racist and sexist, it's because a whole heaping bunch of Democrats are, too. It's because Democrats voted for Obama and ultimately found him too uppity, and Hilary is that bitch.
And I don't know what to do about that. I don't want to argue the leftist v liberal debate again, but the Democratic Party has a racism and sexism problem in the base. And we're going to bleed voters to the other side if we don't do something about it. We ARE bleeding voters. And this, THIS, is what makes me fear that the Democratic Party is done.
posted by Ruki at 5:53 PM on May 7, 2017 [55 favorites]
1. We really need to standardize voting laws on a national level. This whole different rules for different states thing is bullshit. Simplify the process, make it easier for everyone to vote, and make it consistent. My mom has lived in Rhode Island all her life, and the one thing that the Deplorable and I agreed on was our state's primary rules, which my parents did not understand. In RI, independents cannot vote in primaries. You can affiliate at the polling station, vote, and then immediately go to a table to disaffiliate. My mom voted in the Republican primary, but thought the disaffiliation paperwork would make her a registered Democrat instead of an independent again. I eventually pulled up her voter registration on my phone to show her that she is still affiliated Republican. Let independents vote in the primary of their choosing without having to affiliate. Allow same day registration and early voting everywhere. Make voting easy. This needs to be a huge Democratic push.
2. Proud deplorables want to be racist without being called racist. FUCK. THAT. NOISE. I called my dad out a few times, but not the deplorable, as he was my parents' guest, and I need to pick my battles. Deplorable's son in law is a Brazilian immigrant and my dad has a black great-granddaughter. Neither of them displayed any sign of cognitive dissonance. There is no internal logic, and Democrats need to realize this. There is no outreach here. I thought there could be, but I was wrong.
3. To the deplorables, anyone from California is a (homophobic slur). I countered with Reagan, and my dad went off on how anti-union Reagan was. One guess if my dad was in a union. He's still a registered Democrat. We need to address the "fuck you, got mine" in our own party. Not to cater to them, but to try to expand their world view while still keeping them. Not a huge priority though.
4. Speaking of cognitive dissonance, they thought the Clintons were looking to enrich themselves from the position of president, but refuse to believe Trump is literally only doing that.
5. I no longer think Comey threw the election. Racism and sexism did. And it's not because Republicans are racist and sexist, it's because a whole heaping bunch of Democrats are, too. It's because Democrats voted for Obama and ultimately found him too uppity, and Hilary is that bitch.
And I don't know what to do about that. I don't want to argue the leftist v liberal debate again, but the Democratic Party has a racism and sexism problem in the base. And we're going to bleed voters to the other side if we don't do something about it. We ARE bleeding voters. And this, THIS, is what makes me fear that the Democratic Party is done.
posted by Ruki at 5:53 PM on May 7, 2017 [55 favorites]
Doesn't almost everyone universally hate Zuckerberg? I'm having a really hard time picturing who his constituency is supposed to be other than other Silicon Valley douchebros, and thankfully they're small in number and also universally hated.
Not that that will stop him from running, but I just don't see it.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:53 PM on May 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
Not that that will stop him from running, but I just don't see it.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:53 PM on May 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
Everyone with an R Senator needs to call and ask why there are no women in the group.
Is this a trick question? Like, which part of "R" are you not getting?
posted by uosuaq at 5:55 PM on May 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Is this a trick question? Like, which part of "R" are you not getting?
posted by uosuaq at 5:55 PM on May 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Can someone else verify my read on this Justin Amash post?
In it he's explaining his vote on AHCA. He's upset they didn't go for full repeal of ACA, and suggests AHCA "repeals fewer than 10 percent of the provisions in the Affordable Care Act." He also suggests it continues the coverage of children under 26 with pre-existing conditions. Then he says this:
"I want to emphasize that last point. The bill does not change the ACA’s federal requirements on guaranteed issue (prohibition on policy denial), essential health benefits (minimum coverage), or community rating (prohibition on pricing based on health status). In short, Obamacare’s pre-existing conditions provisions are retained.
The latest version of the AHCA does allow any state to seek a waiver from certain insurance mandates, but such waivers are limited in scope. Guaranteed issue cannot be waived. Nobody can be treated differently based on gender. And any person who has continuous coverage—no lapse for more than 62 days—cannot be charged more regardless of health status."
Considering his position on ACA, he's not praising AHCA here, he's saying it's the same as the system he wants to get rid of. So does that mean he wants insurance companies to be able to discriminate based on gender, or charge massively different amounts for healthy and non-healthy people? That he's upset insurance companies can't gouge customers and be arbitrary and treat everyone differently?
posted by GhostintheMachine at 6:01 PM on May 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
In it he's explaining his vote on AHCA. He's upset they didn't go for full repeal of ACA, and suggests AHCA "repeals fewer than 10 percent of the provisions in the Affordable Care Act." He also suggests it continues the coverage of children under 26 with pre-existing conditions. Then he says this:
"I want to emphasize that last point. The bill does not change the ACA’s federal requirements on guaranteed issue (prohibition on policy denial), essential health benefits (minimum coverage), or community rating (prohibition on pricing based on health status). In short, Obamacare’s pre-existing conditions provisions are retained.
The latest version of the AHCA does allow any state to seek a waiver from certain insurance mandates, but such waivers are limited in scope. Guaranteed issue cannot be waived. Nobody can be treated differently based on gender. And any person who has continuous coverage—no lapse for more than 62 days—cannot be charged more regardless of health status."
Considering his position on ACA, he's not praising AHCA here, he's saying it's the same as the system he wants to get rid of. So does that mean he wants insurance companies to be able to discriminate based on gender, or charge massively different amounts for healthy and non-healthy people? That he's upset insurance companies can't gouge customers and be arbitrary and treat everyone differently?
posted by GhostintheMachine at 6:01 PM on May 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
America has a racism and sexism problem at the base. You can see it across every strata of our society. We're witnessing the white patriarchy bite back after 8 years of (some) social progress, and the white patriarchy doesn't fuck around - it bites back hard.
posted by supercrayon at 6:03 PM on May 7, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by supercrayon at 6:03 PM on May 7, 2017 [18 favorites]
Is this a trick question? Like, which part of "R" are you not getting?
Not to try to have an actual conversation with them, to put them on notice and scare them, like with health care. Come on.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:07 PM on May 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Not to try to have an actual conversation with them, to put them on notice and scare them, like with health care. Come on.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:07 PM on May 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
And any person who has continuous coverage—no lapse for more than 62 days—cannot be charged more regardless of health status.
Which, bee tee dubs, FTR, FWIW, etc. wasn't ACA. It was HIPAA.
posted by spaceman_spiff at 6:09 PM on May 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
Which, bee tee dubs, FTR, FWIW, etc. wasn't ACA. It was HIPAA.
posted by spaceman_spiff at 6:09 PM on May 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
So does that mean he wants insurance companies to be able to discriminate based on gender, or charge massively different amounts for healthy and non-healthy people?
Yup. The differences between Amash and Ryan or McConnell are that (a) Amash has a set of principles he believes in and (b) that he doesn't consistently lie about them.
The way I think of it is like this... you couldn't ever make a deal with Ryan or McConnell or Trump, because they're just lying snakes, fundamentally dishonorable people. The odds of being able to find a deal with someone like Amash are super slim, because he's a crazy right-wing wackadoo. But if by some chance you could find something to agree on, Amash seems likely to abide by the agreement.
Say what you will about the tenets of national socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:15 PM on May 7, 2017 [14 favorites]
Yup. The differences between Amash and Ryan or McConnell are that (a) Amash has a set of principles he believes in and (b) that he doesn't consistently lie about them.
The way I think of it is like this... you couldn't ever make a deal with Ryan or McConnell or Trump, because they're just lying snakes, fundamentally dishonorable people. The odds of being able to find a deal with someone like Amash are super slim, because he's a crazy right-wing wackadoo. But if by some chance you could find something to agree on, Amash seems likely to abide by the agreement.
Say what you will about the tenets of national socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:15 PM on May 7, 2017 [14 favorites]
America has a racism and sexism problem at the base.
Yes. Absolutely. I'm a white woman, and I have a racism and sexism problem. I'm working on it, but I was raised to be racist and sexist (against myself). The Democratic Party absolutely cannot act like it's above that shit, because it's not. From my own activist work, I've learned that a lot of POC do not trust the Democratic Party because we do not acknowledge our racism and sexism problem. As a privileged minority (Jewish), I see that, too. This is what we need to focus on. And, tbh, we are absolutely shit at it. I've seen it in the activist groups I'm part of, the white fragility. If we're going to win, we being the Democratic Party, us white people need to sit down.
posted by Ruki at 6:18 PM on May 7, 2017 [24 favorites]
Yes. Absolutely. I'm a white woman, and I have a racism and sexism problem. I'm working on it, but I was raised to be racist and sexist (against myself). The Democratic Party absolutely cannot act like it's above that shit, because it's not. From my own activist work, I've learned that a lot of POC do not trust the Democratic Party because we do not acknowledge our racism and sexism problem. As a privileged minority (Jewish), I see that, too. This is what we need to focus on. And, tbh, we are absolutely shit at it. I've seen it in the activist groups I'm part of, the white fragility. If we're going to win, we being the Democratic Party, us white people need to sit down.
posted by Ruki at 6:18 PM on May 7, 2017 [24 favorites]
Obama is speaking right now at the JFK library in Boston. I want to cry. The contrast with the orange buffoon is making me verklempt.
posted by Justinian at 6:19 PM on May 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 6:19 PM on May 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
Yeah and he hasn't really even said anything yet... he's just... using complete sentences
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:22 PM on May 7, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:22 PM on May 7, 2017 [26 favorites]
Thanks for the clarifications, lalex, spaceman, and ROU. That thinking is just so... alien to me, I really cannot imagine it in another human being. People joke about this revision being approved because it was harsher than the last - at least that's what I assumed, it was a joke. But no, it truly did pass because it was nastier to more people.
How does civilization survive such people?
posted by GhostintheMachine at 6:23 PM on May 7, 2017
How does civilization survive such people?
posted by GhostintheMachine at 6:23 PM on May 7, 2017
at least that's what I assumed, it was a joke.
It was no joke. Start assuming that people are not joking until proven otherwise. It's a shittier reality but it is reality.
posted by futz at 6:27 PM on May 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
It was no joke. Start assuming that people are not joking until proven otherwise. It's a shittier reality but it is reality.
posted by futz at 6:27 PM on May 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
> Doesn't almost everyone universally hate Zuckerberg? I'm having a really hard time picturing who his constituency is supposed to be other than other Silicon Valley douchebros, and thankfully they're small in number and also universally hated.
Not that that will stop him from running, but I just don't see it.
I think he thinks he can win because he can build popularity through tweaking the facebook newsfeed algorithm to subtly prefer surfacing positive stories about him and his policies, while subtly burying negative stories about him and positive stories about his opponents.
That's if he has sense. That said, he wouldn't be the first wildly unpopular Silicon Valley CEOs who for whatever reason thought they could parlay their business experience into political careers and who failed dramatically when they tried it (see: Meg Whitman, Carly Fiorina). Zuckerberg might be like them; he might be driven by pure ego rather than by a sense that he could get into office through leveraging his media platform.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 6:45 PM on May 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Not that that will stop him from running, but I just don't see it.
I think he thinks he can win because he can build popularity through tweaking the facebook newsfeed algorithm to subtly prefer surfacing positive stories about him and his policies, while subtly burying negative stories about him and positive stories about his opponents.
That's if he has sense. That said, he wouldn't be the first wildly unpopular Silicon Valley CEOs who for whatever reason thought they could parlay their business experience into political careers and who failed dramatically when they tried it (see: Meg Whitman, Carly Fiorina). Zuckerberg might be like them; he might be driven by pure ego rather than by a sense that he could get into office through leveraging his media platform.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 6:45 PM on May 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Democrats blast Senate GOP’s all-male healthcare group
If you aren't at the table, it's because you are on the menu.
posted by JackFlash at 6:50 PM on May 7, 2017 [39 favorites]
If you aren't at the table, it's because you are on the menu.
posted by JackFlash at 6:50 PM on May 7, 2017 [39 favorites]
If the original purpose of Facebook was to get Zuckerberg laid, then it won't take too many tweaks in attitude to see if it can get him a Presidency.
posted by rhizome at 6:51 PM on May 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 6:51 PM on May 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Washington Post foreign researcher: I was threatened, harassed and forced to delete recordings and photos of The Kushner family recruiting Chinese investors in US Green cards.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:03 PM on May 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:03 PM on May 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
Trump to Announce Slate of Conservative Federal Court Nominees
Having filled a Supreme Court vacancy, President Trump is turning his attention to the more than 120 openings on the lower federal courts. On Monday, he will announce a slate of 10 nominees to those courts, a senior White House official said, the first in what could be near monthly waves of nominations.
The White House counsel, Donald F. McGahn II, said the nominations were a vindication of a commitment Mr. Trump made during the campaign “to appoint strong and principled jurists to the federal bench who will enforce the Constitution’s limits on federal power and protect the liberty of all Americans.”
This makes me non-mildly nauseous. In fact I feel extremely nauseous.
posted by futz at 7:25 PM on May 7, 2017 [25 favorites]
Having filled a Supreme Court vacancy, President Trump is turning his attention to the more than 120 openings on the lower federal courts. On Monday, he will announce a slate of 10 nominees to those courts, a senior White House official said, the first in what could be near monthly waves of nominations.
The White House counsel, Donald F. McGahn II, said the nominations were a vindication of a commitment Mr. Trump made during the campaign “to appoint strong and principled jurists to the federal bench who will enforce the Constitution’s limits on federal power and protect the liberty of all Americans.”
This makes me non-mildly nauseous. In fact I feel extremely nauseous.
posted by futz at 7:25 PM on May 7, 2017 [25 favorites]
If the original purpose of Facebook was to get Zuckerberg laid, then it won't take too many tweaks in attitude to see if it can get him a Presidency.
YOU CAN'T WIN 200 MILLION VOTES WITHOUT MAKING A FEW ENEMIES
posted by Chrysostom at 8:02 PM on May 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
YOU CAN'T WIN 200 MILLION VOTES WITHOUT MAKING A FEW ENEMIES
posted by Chrysostom at 8:02 PM on May 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
ELECTIONS NEWS
** MT-AL
** MT-AL
-- Garin-Hart-Yang poll:posted by Chrysostom at 8:37 PM on May 7, 2017 [8 favorites]Gianforte 49
Quist 43
I posted about this upthread when there was one confirmed person fired but it now looks like the Environmental Protection Agency has dismissed at least five members of a major scientific review board
Call it what it is NYT. They were fired and silenced in a vindictive act against truth and reality in order to reward Big $$$ Industry. Oh wait:
A spokesman for the E.P.A. administrator, Scott Pruitt, said he would consider replacing the academic scientists with representatives from industries whose pollution the agency is supposed to regulate, as part of the wide net it plans to cast. “The administrator believes we should have people on this board who understand the impact of regulations on the regulated community,” said the spokesman, J. P. Freire.
This is the new normal and it is obscene.
posted by futz at 8:41 PM on May 7, 2017 [65 favorites]
Call it what it is NYT. They were fired and silenced in a vindictive act against truth and reality in order to reward Big $$$ Industry. Oh wait:
A spokesman for the E.P.A. administrator, Scott Pruitt, said he would consider replacing the academic scientists with representatives from industries whose pollution the agency is supposed to regulate, as part of the wide net it plans to cast. “The administrator believes we should have people on this board who understand the impact of regulations on the regulated community,” said the spokesman, J. P. Freire.
This is the new normal and it is obscene.
posted by futz at 8:41 PM on May 7, 2017 [65 favorites]
Having filled a Supreme Court vacancy, President Trump is turning his attention to the more than 120 openings on the lower federal courts.
6 JUL 15: Judge not: GOP blocks dozens of Obama court picks
29 NOV 16: Trump just scored perhaps the biggest victory of his new tenure. But it comes with a huge asterisk.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:46 PM on May 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
6 JUL 15: Judge not: GOP blocks dozens of Obama court picks
29 NOV 16: Trump just scored perhaps the biggest victory of his new tenure. But it comes with a huge asterisk.
As news broke that President-elect Donald Trump reached a deal to save nearly 1,000 jobs at an Indianapolis plant on Tuesday evening, factory worker Brian Reed prepared to lose his job of 24 years just a mile away.29 MAR 17: ‘There’s not a hope alive for us’: A factory Trump targeted begins its move to Mexico
Reed assembles roller bearings at Rexnord, an industrial supplier that plans to send his job and 294 others from the Midwest to Mexico. The 45-year-old father worries about the mortgage, college tuition for his daughter and health insurance for his son, a football player. He hopes Trump will try to save his family's livelihood, too.
“We are counting on him,” Reed said. “The working class elected him. Now take a stance.”
The list came up Tuesday morning, near the assembly line. Twenty-three names. Twenty-three dates. And two words everyone dreaded: TENTATIVE LAYOFFS.Whoops.
Rexnord, an industrial supplier in Indianapolis, was starting the two-month process of closing the factory and moving nearly 300 jobs to Monterrey, Mexico.
Brian Reed, 45, knew this would happen. But he didn’t expect it to twist his gut. He has worked a quarter century here, and his name topped the white piece of paper. Human resources had typed out his seniority number, too (12/07/1992).
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:46 PM on May 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
Deported man's wife and friends rethink voting for Trump
Helen on the phone with Roberto: So wait a minute, they said-- no Roberto-- they said they were going to take you to Mexico City…So now they are changing again? …OK, I love you. Be careful. Bye.posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:56 PM on May 7, 2017 [25 favorites]
Helen Beristain: He sounded scared. So scared, like what's gonna happen to me…
The irony of what's happened is not lost on Roberto's wife. Like a lot of her friends and relatives, Helen Beristain also voted for President Trump.
Anderson Cooper: You voted for him.
Helen Beristain: I voted for him. Because he said, "We're going to make our economy better," I did like that idea. And I said to Roberto, I said, "You know what? You know, you're getting a small business. And that's gonna help you with your taxes," but he said, "OK, well you don't think he's gonna deport us, all people?" And I said…
Anderson Cooper: Roberto actually raised that idea?
Helen Beristain: Yeah, he did. And I said, "Roberto, come on now. You've got your documents. You obey the law. You haven't done anything bad. You-- you're not a criminal."
Anderson Cooper: Are there times when you feel that you made a terrible mistake?
Helen Beristain: Like they say, "You should read the fine print first before you make a selection." I should have listened closely to those debates. That was a mistake I made. I didn't listen.
So it's the Beristain Bears universe we're in. things are worse than I had thought
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:29 PM on May 7, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:29 PM on May 7, 2017 [25 favorites]
legendary golf reporter
Yeah this, this is not a thing.
posted by riverlife at 9:31 PM on May 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
Yeah this, this is not a thing.
posted by riverlife at 9:31 PM on May 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
Perhaps I should have said "golf writer famous enough I've at least vaguely heard of him before," which is actually saying something given my profound lack of interest in golf.
posted by zachlipton at 9:39 PM on May 7, 2017
posted by zachlipton at 9:39 PM on May 7, 2017
Have ye not heard the legends, stranger? The tales of the Great Golfwriters of the Long-ago?
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:41 PM on May 7, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:41 PM on May 7, 2017 [14 favorites]
So, Trump's tweets today included:
"I look very much forward to working with him!"
and
"Tax product big that's sold in U.S."
I just spent far too much time checking grammar sites to see if splitting an inseparable phrasal verb with an adverb is a question ESL learners every pose (I think it's just me), and trying to parse the second sentence. I'm stumped, but I guess if you switch "big" to "big-league", then it works as an adverb for "tax" being used in the imperative mood, as in:
"You, tax!" -- "How shall I tax?" -- "Tax big-league!"
posted by Theiform at 9:43 PM on May 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
"I look very much forward to working with him!"
and
"Tax product big that's sold in U.S."
I just spent far too much time checking grammar sites to see if splitting an inseparable phrasal verb with an adverb is a question ESL learners every pose (I think it's just me), and trying to parse the second sentence. I'm stumped, but I guess if you switch "big" to "big-league", then it works as an adverb for "tax" being used in the imperative mood, as in:
"You, tax!" -- "How shall I tax?" -- "Tax big-league!"
posted by Theiform at 9:43 PM on May 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
Yeah, I's just funnin' zachlipton, no offense at you was intended, you are a light and source of inspiration here--as are so very many of you--and I am indebted for your consistently trenchant, up-to-the-minute analyses, links, and mostly for your humanity.
It's, um, par for the course that a white man born of such privilege can have made a good living writing about, amongst other things, golf, and then for...reasons...held back this account until after leopards have begun dining upon faces. Legendary, even, in that dudebro kinda way.
posted by riverlife at 9:54 PM on May 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's, um, par for the course that a white man born of such privilege can have made a good living writing about, amongst other things, golf, and then for...reasons...held back this account until after leopards have begun dining upon faces. Legendary, even, in that dudebro kinda way.
posted by riverlife at 9:54 PM on May 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
John Oliver attempts once again to save Net Neutrality and encourages everyone to submit comments to the FCC by going to http://gofccyourself.com, except he has, also once again, crashed the FCC's docket system.
posted by zachlipton at 11:46 PM on May 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:46 PM on May 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
Both the Consumer Complaint Center feedback form and the ECFS Filing form appear to be up and running (haven't submitted yet). Maybe they've recovered?
posted by christopherious at 12:05 AM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by christopherious at 12:05 AM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
No. I believe the Consumer Complaint Center is for complaining about your phone company. Net Neutrality comments are supposed to be submitted through the FCC's rulemaking docket management system, and Oliver's team setup gofccyourself.com to link you to the right place automatically, but the FCC's site is down due to the load. This happened the last time Net Neutrality came up and literally millions of comments were submitted.
posted by zachlipton at 12:09 AM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by zachlipton at 12:09 AM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Sorry, Zachlipton, I totally ninja edited my comment. Check both links in it. They're both working. Maybe some of their web nodes are just still up.
posted by christopherious at 12:10 AM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by christopherious at 12:10 AM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
I can't get ECFS to fully work for me; it's not completely down, but it can't actually search for any proceedings.
posted by zachlipton at 12:11 AM on May 8, 2017
posted by zachlipton at 12:11 AM on May 8, 2017
I think this was overlooked from Sunday morning:
Trump accuses the DNC of working with the Russians during campaign in bizarre early morning tweet
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
When will the Fake Media ask about the Dems dealings with Russia & why the DNC wouldn't allow the FBI to check their server or investigate?
posted by Room 641-A at 1:09 AM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Trump accuses the DNC of working with the Russians during campaign in bizarre early morning tweet
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
When will the Fake Media ask about the Dems dealings with Russia & why the DNC wouldn't allow the FBI to check their server or investigate?
posted by Room 641-A at 1:09 AM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Kumail Nanjiani tweets:
This is the first time the French version of anything has had a happier ending.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:38 AM on May 8, 2017 [48 favorites]
This is the first time the French version of anything has had a happier ending.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:38 AM on May 8, 2017 [48 favorites]
What was that about his supporters not taking him literally?
The only moralabortion illegal immigrant is my abortion illegal immigrant.
posted by Talez at 4:08 AM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
The only moral
posted by Talez at 4:08 AM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
When will the Fake Media ask about the Dems dealings with Russia & why the DNC wouldn't allow the FBI to check their server or investigate?
Missing hashtag: #TrumpMirror
posted by jaduncan at 4:27 AM on May 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
When will the Fake Media ask about the Dems dealings with Russia & why the DNC wouldn't allow the FBI to check their server or investigate?
Missing hashtag: #TrumpMirror
posted by jaduncan at 4:27 AM on May 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
Trump followed up that tweet with: General Flynn was given the highest security clearance by the Obama Administration - but the Fake News seldom likes talking about that.
Sounds like he is really excited to hear from Sally Yates, too!
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:04 AM on May 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
Sounds like he is really excited to hear from Sally Yates, too!
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:04 AM on May 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
Implying that Yates is the leaker, I guess: Ask Sally Yates, under oath, if she knows how classified information got into the newspapers soon after she explained it to W.H. Council.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:16 AM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:16 AM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
George Will officially joins MSNBC.
The Foxification of MSNBC isn't shocking anymore, but still surprises me in that ratings typically lie in being the opposition party. As evidenced by Maddow and the rest of the liberal wing of MSNBC's ratings surge.
posted by chris24 at 5:18 AM on May 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
The Foxification of MSNBC isn't shocking anymore, but still surprises me in that ratings typically lie in being the opposition party. As evidenced by Maddow and the rest of the liberal wing of MSNBC's ratings surge.
posted by chris24 at 5:18 AM on May 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
China pitch by Kushner sister renews controversy over visa program for wealthy: A much-criticized visa program that allows foreigners to win fast-track immigration in return for investing $500,000 in U.S. properties was extended in a bill signed by President Trump just one day before a sister of senior White House adviser Jared Kushner pitched the program to Chinese investors.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:22 AM on May 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:22 AM on May 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
Ask Sally Yates, under oath, if she knows how classified information got into the newspapers soon after she explained it to W.H. Council.
It's Counsel.
posted by chris24 at 5:23 AM on May 8, 2017 [24 favorites]
It's Counsel.
posted by chris24 at 5:23 AM on May 8, 2017 [24 favorites]
George Will officially joins MSNBC.
Ugh, MSNBC is going full Southern Strategy. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Fox News is like "We need to remake ourselves anyway, Angry White Man is a dying model, let's hire an Elaine-Welteroth-esque progressive young woman of color to run the network, clean house, hire new anchors, and capture the center/left media space." (ok, there's no chance that is happening, but a girl can dream!)
posted by melissasaurus at 5:29 AM on May 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
Ugh, MSNBC is going full Southern Strategy. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Fox News is like "We need to remake ourselves anyway, Angry White Man is a dying model, let's hire an Elaine-Welteroth-esque progressive young woman of color to run the network, clean house, hire new anchors, and capture the center/left media space." (ok, there's no chance that is happening, but a girl can dream!)
posted by melissasaurus at 5:29 AM on May 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
China pitch by Kushner sister renews controversy over visa program for wealthy
The best part of the article roomthreeseventeen linked is this line:
On Sunday, the Kushner Companies, of which Meyer is a principal, said in an email to The Post that it “apologizes if that mention of her brother was in any way interpreted as an attempt to lure investors. That was not Ms. Meyer’s intention.”
Oh, your investment conference for your investment company wasn't attempting to lure investors?
posted by bluecore at 5:35 AM on May 8, 2017 [34 favorites]
The best part of the article roomthreeseventeen linked is this line:
On Sunday, the Kushner Companies, of which Meyer is a principal, said in an email to The Post that it “apologizes if that mention of her brother was in any way interpreted as an attempt to lure investors. That was not Ms. Meyer’s intention.”
Oh, your investment conference for your investment company wasn't attempting to lure investors?
posted by bluecore at 5:35 AM on May 8, 2017 [34 favorites]
Ugh, MSNBC is going full Southern Strategy.
I've probably said this before but targeting liberals for cable news always seems likely to lose because most of us aren't sitting in front of our TVs all day. Or even have TVs.
posted by octothorpe at 5:54 AM on May 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
I've probably said this before but targeting liberals for cable news always seems likely to lose because most of us aren't sitting in front of our TVs all day. Or even have TVs.
posted by octothorpe at 5:54 AM on May 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
Kentucky Has A History With High-Risk Health Insurance Pools. It Isn’t Good
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:55 AM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:55 AM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
The Foxification of MSNBC isn't shocking anymore, but still surprises me in that ratings typically lie in being the opposition party. As evidenced by Maddow and the rest of the liberal wing of MSNBC's ratings surge.
I don't think the corporate powers-that-be, including corporate media, have any idea what they're doing
Like when the history of this stuff is written, it might as well be these massive international corporate machines lumbering around with a golden retriever at the wheel
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:58 AM on May 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
I don't think the corporate powers-that-be, including corporate media, have any idea what they're doing
Like when the history of this stuff is written, it might as well be these massive international corporate machines lumbering around with a golden retriever at the wheel
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:58 AM on May 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
I've probably said this before but targeting liberals for cable news always seems likely to lose because most of us aren't sitting in front of our TVs all day. Or even have TVs.
Yeah, most people I know under 40 don't have cable (if they have a TV at all), though many follow the hosts on Twitter/Facebook and watch clips of the shows online. Maybe this is just cable news companies realizing that their customer pool is dwindling as the boomers start to die off (even if Gen Xers watch cable news at the same rate, the overall viewership would decrease due to the smaller size of the generation), and rather than innovate to appeal to a younger market, they've decided to fight over the scraps til they go bankrupt.
But -- among late night hosts, Sam Bee is winning the 18-34 demographic, so maybe just maybe some smart news exec will notice those numbers and shift their strategy accordingly. *~Fingers Crossed ~*
(Really I just want good informative news to watch that doesn't include rape apologia, obvious dogwhistles, constant whataboutism, and climate change denial -- a news show that actually talks to experts and activists not just political commentators. Like a combo of Full Frontal, Last Week Tonight, and Bill Nye's new Netflix show.)
posted by melissasaurus at 6:06 AM on May 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
Yeah, most people I know under 40 don't have cable (if they have a TV at all), though many follow the hosts on Twitter/Facebook and watch clips of the shows online. Maybe this is just cable news companies realizing that their customer pool is dwindling as the boomers start to die off (even if Gen Xers watch cable news at the same rate, the overall viewership would decrease due to the smaller size of the generation), and rather than innovate to appeal to a younger market, they've decided to fight over the scraps til they go bankrupt.
But -- among late night hosts, Sam Bee is winning the 18-34 demographic, so maybe just maybe some smart news exec will notice those numbers and shift their strategy accordingly. *~Fingers Crossed ~*
(Really I just want good informative news to watch that doesn't include rape apologia, obvious dogwhistles, constant whataboutism, and climate change denial -- a news show that actually talks to experts and activists not just political commentators. Like a combo of Full Frontal, Last Week Tonight, and Bill Nye's new Netflix show.)
posted by melissasaurus at 6:06 AM on May 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
I used to skim through the 3 hour all liberal power hour (at its best when it was briefly Olbermann, Maddow, And O'Donnell) and watch the best stories, and also have MSNBC on during whatever hours I slept or napped. It gave me something to chew on the very many times I woke up, I seemed to actually pick up some of what I heard subconsciously, and it helped lull me to sleep. I was even tolerant of Morning Joe because that was often on when I was waking up and pissing me off helped me get energized. For awhile, when they had Hayes (before he had to tone down for the 5pm slot) and Harris-Perry, the weekends were so interesting that I would wake up way earlier than I should have on weekends to listen to them before falling back asleep.
I might have cut the cord anyway, but I would have figured out a way to buy or bootleg MSNBC if it was as good as it used to be. In retrospect, I think the beginning of the end was jacking Olbermann, but when they killed off Alex Wagner after watching her progress from occasional guest to great host was when I realized that the gig was up and cancelled cable.
(meaning that, unless I am alone, yes, there was (is?) at least somewhat of a customer base. I'm now 36, so I guess that I have aged out of their favorite demographic, but it sure must still beat the seniors that conservative news pulls)
posted by bootlegpop at 6:18 AM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
I might have cut the cord anyway, but I would have figured out a way to buy or bootleg MSNBC if it was as good as it used to be. In retrospect, I think the beginning of the end was jacking Olbermann, but when they killed off Alex Wagner after watching her progress from occasional guest to great host was when I realized that the gig was up and cancelled cable.
(meaning that, unless I am alone, yes, there was (is?) at least somewhat of a customer base. I'm now 36, so I guess that I have aged out of their favorite demographic, but it sure must still beat the seniors that conservative news pulls)
posted by bootlegpop at 6:18 AM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
And in further Media Worsening news:
JUST IN: Sinclair Broadcasting Group shares halted for pending news; company expected to announce purchase of Tribune Media Co. today.
Sinclair would become nation's largest provider of local tv news -- the no. 1 source of elections news last year.
[From December:] Kushner: We struck deal with Sinclair for straighter coverage
Get ready for your local news broadcast to get even Trumpier.
posted by melissasaurus at 6:25 AM on May 8, 2017 [38 favorites]
JUST IN: Sinclair Broadcasting Group shares halted for pending news; company expected to announce purchase of Tribune Media Co. today.
Sinclair would become nation's largest provider of local tv news -- the no. 1 source of elections news last year.
[From December:] Kushner: We struck deal with Sinclair for straighter coverage
Get ready for your local news broadcast to get even Trumpier.
posted by melissasaurus at 6:25 AM on May 8, 2017 [38 favorites]
I don't think the corporate powers-that-be, including corporate media, have any idea what they're doing
Have we told you the name of the game, boy?
We call it Riding the Gravy Traaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnn
posted by petebest at 6:26 AM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
Have we told you the name of the game, boy?
We call it Riding the Gravy Traaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnn
posted by petebest at 6:26 AM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
melissasaurus, to me that reads as the corporate powers that be fighting over the scraps of the broadcast networks while the internet news sources continue onward, unphased.
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 6:36 AM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 6:36 AM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
melissasaurus, to me that reads as the corporate powers that be fighting over the scraps of the broadcast networks while the internet news sources continue onward, unphased.
Yes but the people who are influenced by those broadcast networks actually vote.
posted by Talez at 6:38 AM on May 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
Yes but the people who are influenced by those broadcast networks actually vote.
posted by Talez at 6:38 AM on May 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
i guess that trump sees working the refs as a show of dominance, but to me it reads as increasingly desperate "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain".
does this shit play well anywhere outside of hardcore MAGAhats? i'd like to think that if it didn't work somebody in the white house would stop him but i guess that's not gonna happen.
posted by murphy slaw at 6:45 AM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
does this shit play well anywhere outside of hardcore MAGAhats? i'd like to think that if it didn't work somebody in the white house would stop him but i guess that's not gonna happen.
posted by murphy slaw at 6:45 AM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oh, your investment conference for your investment company wasn't attempting to lure investors?
Yo dawg I heard you like investments
posted by Room 641-A at 6:56 AM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yo dawg I heard you like investments
posted by Room 641-A at 6:56 AM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
Donald Trump’s Penthouse Is Way Smaller Than He Claims
His hands.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:04 AM on May 8, 2017 [21 favorites]
Trump reportedly told Forbes that he owns the top three floors of Trump Tower, but the magazine recently “dug up” New York City records that prove otherwise. According to Forbes, Trump actually shares those three floors with a neighbor. Trump reportedly initially acquired a 6,096-square-foot triplex apartment that occupied portions of floors 66 through 68 (but not the entire floors).Of course the penthouse is on top of a building that is not as tall as he says it is.
He later merged parts of two neighboring apartments into his home, Forbes reports, turning his penthouse into a 10,966-square-foot residence. The magazine estimates that the residence is actually worth $64 million, not the $200 million figure Trump claimed.
Though the tower was built with 58 floors, Mr. Trump later explained to The New York Times that because there was a soaring pink marble atrium and 19 commercial floors at the bottom, he could see no good reason not to list the first residential floor as the 30th floor. The pinnacle became the 68th — the height that appears in marketing materials, online search results and news articles to this day.I'm not saying his propensity for exaggerating how big things are is compensating for something, but his propensity for exaggerating how big things are is compensating for something.
His hands.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:04 AM on May 8, 2017 [21 favorites]
35 of 37 economists said Trump was wrong. The other two misread the question:
President Trump's administration says his tax cut will pay for itself. It turns out it's really hard to find an economist who agrees.posted by peeedro at 7:04 AM on May 8, 2017 [47 favorites]
The University of Chicago's Booth School of Business regularly polls economists on controversial questions. In a survey the school published last week on Trump's tax plans, only two out of the 37 economists that responded said that the cuts would stimulate the economy enough to cancel out the effect on total tax revenue.
Those two economists now both say they made a mistake, and that they misunderstood the question.
According to the "My animal weight" FPP, I am three quarters of a million bees, motherfuckers.
(and I meant to post that there, but I guess it works here, too)
posted by rp at 7:13 AM on May 8, 2017 [28 favorites]
(and I meant to post that there, but I guess it works here, too)
posted by rp at 7:13 AM on May 8, 2017 [28 favorites]
Part of me hopes that Sally Yates makes Trump mad enough to hold one of those impromptu press conferences again. That was really good times.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:15 AM on May 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:15 AM on May 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
Paul Ryan's press secretary not even pretending to tell the truth.
Republicans lie all the time. They have to; their actual policies are woefully unpopular. But it isn't enough to simply establish that they like. As pointed out often, upthread and elsewhere, at some point the media's "balance" reflex will kick in and they'll find some ludicrous false equivalence.
I propose that Democrats and their media surrogates need to be consistent with a different message, one that so well fits the Trump regime and its enablers in Congress:
You lie when you get caught.
posted by Gelatin at 7:19 AM on May 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Republicans lie all the time. They have to; their actual policies are woefully unpopular. But it isn't enough to simply establish that they like. As pointed out often, upthread and elsewhere, at some point the media's "balance" reflex will kick in and they'll find some ludicrous false equivalence.
I propose that Democrats and their media surrogates need to be consistent with a different message, one that so well fits the Trump regime and its enablers in Congress:
You lie when you get caught.
posted by Gelatin at 7:19 AM on May 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Spending this much time talking about the machinations of cable news is way more attention than they deserve. From Adweek - read this whole block and then look at those final "record" numbers in a proper context.
SNL's actual show numbers were a low point from recent months with just 6.9M On the preceding night, Friday, a night where viewership is typically off and where a show with lower numbers can avoid cancellation, Shark Tank pulled 4.29M viewers.
That's not even talking about younger folks. On Thursday Fox News's viewer number from that Adweek report were about equal to how many people in that demo hung around to watch a rerun of The Mick. Their viewership numbers in the under-50 crowd are about equal to how many of them watch Supernatural, a show on its 10th season as I recall.
As far as daytime, that's barely even worth considering. Fox News' cohorts there in ratings results are Dr Phil and Entertainment Tonight. While they do manage to gather about half again as many viewers as reruns of Bob's Burgers, they get stomped by Judge Judy, Family Feud, and reruns of Law & Order: Ice-T Unit. Oh, and did I mention that the stat there only counts women viewers, versus FNC's counting of everyone? When you consider total numbers they're pulling 1.7M viewers compared to Ellen's pull of over twice as many at just shy of 4M.
The hold cable news - and particularly FNC - have over the older folks who are more likely to vote matters, sure, but they're still small fish in the national dialog. Stop worrying that MSNBC is going to give some clown a platform that reaches fewer folks than the chalkboard in Bob's Burgers.
posted by phearlez at 7:20 AM on May 8, 2017 [19 favorites]
Fox News Channel, the most-watched cable news network since 2002, just set another record.Okay, 2.8M in prime time, 1.7M daytime. Everyone got that? Sounds like a lot. Till you go check this document about how to interpret Nielsen ratings. This is in the middle of a chunk about the scale of potential error in Nielsen's 50,000 sample size but the phrasing is a nice setup for this too.
The network had its most-watched quarter ever and for the first three months of 2017, was the most-watched basic cable in both prime time and total day viewers.
FNC was up +27 percent in total day viewers and up +20 percent in total prime time viewers vs. Q1, 2016. Among the ad-friendly A25-54 demo, FNC was up +32 percent in total day, and up +19 percent in prime time.
Here are the network’s average live+ same day numbers for Q1 2017 (Nielsen Live + Same Day data):
Prime time (Mon-Sun): 2,844,000 total viewers / 576,000 A25-54
Total Day (Mon-Sun): 1,713,000 total viewers / 359,000 A25-54
but to put it in perspective, there are approximately 100 million households with a TV in the United States.Okay 2.8% of all households are small but most of them only use them to hook up their XBox, that's not a fair comparison! Well, how about how they watch other stuff? Maybe ratings reports from this most recent Saturday night? 3.71M people watched the Capitals somehow fail to do a traditional DC-area sport team post-season collapse against the Penguins, 30% more people watched a less popular sport in the US than do Fox. 2.6M watched a SNL re-run at 10p, only marginally less than Fox.
SNL's actual show numbers were a low point from recent months with just 6.9M On the preceding night, Friday, a night where viewership is typically off and where a show with lower numbers can avoid cancellation, Shark Tank pulled 4.29M viewers.
That's not even talking about younger folks. On Thursday Fox News's viewer number from that Adweek report were about equal to how many people in that demo hung around to watch a rerun of The Mick. Their viewership numbers in the under-50 crowd are about equal to how many of them watch Supernatural, a show on its 10th season as I recall.
As far as daytime, that's barely even worth considering. Fox News' cohorts there in ratings results are Dr Phil and Entertainment Tonight. While they do manage to gather about half again as many viewers as reruns of Bob's Burgers, they get stomped by Judge Judy, Family Feud, and reruns of Law & Order: Ice-T Unit. Oh, and did I mention that the stat there only counts women viewers, versus FNC's counting of everyone? When you consider total numbers they're pulling 1.7M viewers compared to Ellen's pull of over twice as many at just shy of 4M.
The hold cable news - and particularly FNC - have over the older folks who are more likely to vote matters, sure, but they're still small fish in the national dialog. Stop worrying that MSNBC is going to give some clown a platform that reaches fewer folks than the chalkboard in Bob's Burgers.
posted by phearlez at 7:20 AM on May 8, 2017 [19 favorites]
I don't think the corporate powers-that-be, including corporate media, have any idea what they're doing
The wealthy investors who own the news corporations have interests in a whole bunch of other corporations. They know exactly what they're doing when they make the news channels a Republican propaganda outlet.
posted by happyroach at 7:26 AM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
The wealthy investors who own the news corporations have interests in a whole bunch of other corporations. They know exactly what they're doing when they make the news channels a Republican propaganda outlet.
posted by happyroach at 7:26 AM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Carolyn Johnson, WaPo: Free-standing emergency rooms offer costly convenience
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:46 AM on May 8, 2017 [32 favorites]
Across 32 states, more than 400 free-standing ERs provide quick and easy access to care. But they also are prompting complaints from a growing number of people who feel burned by hospital-size bills, like $6,856 for a cut that didn’t require a stitch or $4,025 for an antibiotic for a sinus infection.This is the healthcare Market Magic that the #FuckingRepublicans want to implement nationwide.
[…]
Yount’s insight was simple: In addition to the physician’s bill, hospitals were paid a “facility fee” to cover X-rays, CT scanners, laboratories, and round-the-clock staffing by physicians and nurses. Free-standing emergency rooms shared many of these costs, since they strive to deliver the same care available in a hospital ER, and the facility fee made the business viable.
By situating in well-off neighborhoods, they could largely avoid patients who couldn’t pay. Without a hospital affiliation, they cannot bill Medicare or Medicaid for emergency care, and many carry warnings on the front door that they do not accept those less-lucrative plans. And as a start-up, the free-standing ERs weren’t encumbered with the high administrative costs of a hospital.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:46 AM on May 8, 2017 [32 favorites]
The cable news problem is less about raw numbers than ability to set the agenda. Coverage of topics on cable news drives local coverage, feeds the daily quota of hate radio, and even filters over to "trusted" mainstream news coverage in the agenda setting papers. When every host on every channel is a Republican, or a Trumpublican, and that's the parameters of the overton window, it helps drive the national conversation ever rightwards. Just look at Trump, could Trump have happened in a world without FOX News? Of course not. There might only be 20 million or however small number of daily FOX viewers, but years and years of allowing FOX and FOX-imitating commentators on every other "news" network to dominate the conversation and establish rightwing views as the only acceptable opinions to express on a national stage created the environment where Trump could reach 60 million voters and win in a country with an illegitimate election process.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:47 AM on May 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:47 AM on May 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
Without a hospital affiliation, they cannot bill Medicare or Medicaid for emergency care, and many carry warnings on the front door that they do not accept those less-lucrative plans.
There is more to why they don't accept Medicare or Medicaid. Because they don't accept funds from government health insurance, they are not subject to the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act. This means they don't have to accept anyone who shows up at the door like other hospitals. You could be dying of a heart attack, bleeding to death, or in the middle of delivering a baby and they can turn you away if you don't have private insurance card.
So even the Republican fallback health plan of "if you don't have insurance, just go to the emergency room" no longer applies.
posted by JackFlash at 8:06 AM on May 8, 2017 [41 favorites]
There is more to why they don't accept Medicare or Medicaid. Because they don't accept funds from government health insurance, they are not subject to the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act. This means they don't have to accept anyone who shows up at the door like other hospitals. You could be dying of a heart attack, bleeding to death, or in the middle of delivering a baby and they can turn you away if you don't have private insurance card.
So even the Republican fallback health plan of "if you don't have insurance, just go to the emergency room" no longer applies.
posted by JackFlash at 8:06 AM on May 8, 2017 [41 favorites]
NBC Exclusive: Obama warned Trump not to hire Flynn during their private sit down right after the election, 3 former WH officials confirm.
-- @KatyTurNBC
posted by murphy slaw at 8:12 AM on May 8, 2017 [28 favorites]
-- @KatyTurNBC
posted by murphy slaw at 8:12 AM on May 8, 2017 [28 favorites]
Full story here:
NBC: Obama Warned Trump Against Hiring Mike Flynn, Say Officials
posted by murphy slaw at 8:15 AM on May 8, 2017 [32 favorites]
NBC: Obama Warned Trump Against Hiring Mike Flynn, Say Officials
posted by murphy slaw at 8:15 AM on May 8, 2017 [32 favorites]
>Trump: "General Flynn was given the highest security clearance by the Obama Administration - but the Fake News seldom likes talking about that."
>Obama warned Trump not to hire Flynn during their private sit down right after the election, 3 former WH officials confirm.
Sounds like Obama directly calling out Trump as a liar.
posted by JackFlash at 8:16 AM on May 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
>Obama warned Trump not to hire Flynn during their private sit down right after the election, 3 former WH officials confirm.
Sounds like Obama directly calling out Trump as a liar.
posted by JackFlash at 8:16 AM on May 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
Chapo Trap House has a pretty decent rundown of AHCA's provisions in their latest with Tim Faust.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:19 AM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Existential Dread at 8:19 AM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
The risk, of course, is that when/if the Dems take back the house, they will cave to the suddenly critical impulse to "look forward" and "not play the blame game" and so won't actually go after the miscreants, felons and traitors that are currently wallowing in power.
To the contrary, I will be greatly surprised if investigating Trump and holding him accountable isn't a key part of the Democratic message going into 2018.
Sure, you'll hear that kind of nonsense from Republicans, and it's the kind of weak sauce the media tends to lap up, but if the Democrats earn their subpoena power, I expect them to use it.
posted by Gelatin at 8:25 AM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
To the contrary, I will be greatly surprised if investigating Trump and holding him accountable isn't a key part of the Democratic message going into 2018.
Sure, you'll hear that kind of nonsense from Republicans, and it's the kind of weak sauce the media tends to lap up, but if the Democrats earn their subpoena power, I expect them to use it.
posted by Gelatin at 8:25 AM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Just look at Trump, could Trump have happened in a world without FOX News? Of course not. There might only be 20 million or however small number of daily FOX viewers,
Make this argument if you like; I neither entirely agree or disagree. But maybe you could not multiply the daily number that I just posted above by a factor of 10 while making it? Their total daily viewership is, at best, 2.84M + 1.71M if you assume there is no overlap between prime-time and total day numbers. More likely it's mostly overlap and 3M people watch in a day.
3M. Not 20M. 3% of households with a TV, not 20%.
posted by phearlez at 8:29 AM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Make this argument if you like; I neither entirely agree or disagree. But maybe you could not multiply the daily number that I just posted above by a factor of 10 while making it? Their total daily viewership is, at best, 2.84M + 1.71M if you assume there is no overlap between prime-time and total day numbers. More likely it's mostly overlap and 3M people watch in a day.
3M. Not 20M. 3% of households with a TV, not 20%.
posted by phearlez at 8:29 AM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
yay, carter page is writing unhinged rants to the the senate intelligence committee:
Page Accuses Senate Of Holding ‘Show Trial’ On Russia In Bizarre 9-Page Letter
best bit:
posted by murphy slaw at 8:32 AM on May 8, 2017 [23 favorites]
Page Accuses Senate Of Holding ‘Show Trial’ On Russia In Bizarre 9-Page Letter
best bit:
The urgency of getting to the bottom of the abysmal human rights record of those actions taken by the Clinton/Obama regime during the 2016 election is an immediate national priority. Finally moving beyond the dark cloud of the civil rights abuses which occurred last year might help encourage capable leaders and essential allies such as Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte to again feel safe in visiting the United States.(emphasis mine)
posted by murphy slaw at 8:32 AM on May 8, 2017 [23 favorites]
"which lasted far longer than either party anticipated"?
why add this detail? how does it in any way support your assertion?
also, i seem to remember that trump thought it was going to be a 20 minute chat and obama was like "sit down, what i tell you in the next 90 minutes may save your goddamn life"
posted by murphy slaw at 8:50 AM on May 8, 2017 [18 favorites]
why add this detail? how does it in any way support your assertion?
also, i seem to remember that trump thought it was going to be a 20 minute chat and obama was like "sit down, what i tell you in the next 90 minutes may save your goddamn life"
posted by murphy slaw at 8:50 AM on May 8, 2017 [18 favorites]
Trumpism: It’s Coming From the Suburbs
But scapegoating poor whites keeps the conversation away from fascism’s real base: the petite bourgeoisie. This is a piece of jargon used mostly by Marxists to denote small-property owners, whose nearest equivalents these days may be the “upper middle class” or “small-business owners.” FiveThirtyEight reported last May that “the median household income of a Trump voter so far in the primaries is about $72,000,” or roughly 130 percent of the national median. Trump’s real base, the actual backbone of fascism, isn’t poor and working-class voters, but middle-class and affluent whites. Often self-employed, possessed of a retirement account and a home as a nest egg, this is the stratum taken in by Horatio Alger stories. They can envision playing the market well enough to become the next Trump. They haven’t won “big-league,” but they’ve won enough to be invested in the hierarchy they aspire to climb. If only America were made great again, they could become the haute bourgeoisie—the storied “1 percent.”posted by Joseph Gurl at 8:52 AM on May 8, 2017 [50 favorites]
‘She is going to fry you’: Internet torches Trump for attacking Sally Yates hours before testimony
posted by Room 641-A at 8:53 AM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 8:53 AM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
"which lasted far longer than either party anticipated"?
why add this detail? how does it in any way support your assertion?
Because that "Senior WH Official" was Trump, and he's crazy.
posted by diogenes at 8:55 AM on May 8, 2017 [26 favorites]
why add this detail? how does it in any way support your assertion?
Because that "Senior WH Official" was Trump, and he's crazy.
posted by diogenes at 8:55 AM on May 8, 2017 [26 favorites]
There's at least five grammatical or punctuation errors in that WH statement. Must be straight from the Ass's Mouth.
posted by Rumple at 8:59 AM on May 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Rumple at 8:59 AM on May 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
Trump's plan is to attack [Sally Yates] as a "democratic operative". She's not. She never was. She's been a professional civil servant her entire career. This is nothing less than a broadside against the concept of a professional civil service system.
And if the media reports the baseless Republican charges -- perhaps with only a bloodless demurral that "critics say" there is no evidence for the charges -- they will be complicit. As they were with the odious "swift boat" smear, and the birther nonsense, and the endless phony charges about Hillary that let them report that new ones "raised questions."
posted by Gelatin at 9:00 AM on May 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
And if the media reports the baseless Republican charges -- perhaps with only a bloodless demurral that "critics say" there is no evidence for the charges -- they will be complicit. As they were with the odious "swift boat" smear, and the birther nonsense, and the endless phony charges about Hillary that let them report that new ones "raised questions."
posted by Gelatin at 9:00 AM on May 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
An Anonymous White House Official (Who Is Totally Steve Bannon)
How to tell who’s leaking what in the Trump administrationposted by kirkaracha at 9:02 AM on May 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
The Trump administration doesn’t speak with one voice. It talks over and around itself and up and down and sideways. When the White House is a set of anonymous-quote–spewing rival factions, you need to do some extra work to figure out where your news is coming from.
How can you tell which Trump adviser delivered which unattributed comment? Follow along with us below, but be warned that we’re providing this information only on deep, deep background.
"which lasted far longer than either party anticipated"?
why add this detail? how does it in any way support your assertion?
Because the 'Senior WH Official' quoted anonymously might actually be Trump, and he'll never pass up a chance to brag about how something he was involved in lasted longer than expected. So to speak.
There's a story going around the milblogs the last week or so where an Afghan ambassador talks about how Trump is much more involved in Afghanistan than Obama ever was, and how Trump asked really great questions of Afghan leaders about how he can help and clearly was listening. I suspect this is part of that same attempt to rebrand Trump as totally not the Dilettante-in-Chief who's in over his head and doesn't really care anyway.
posted by Etrigan at 9:02 AM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
why add this detail? how does it in any way support your assertion?
Because the 'Senior WH Official' quoted anonymously might actually be Trump, and he'll never pass up a chance to brag about how something he was involved in lasted longer than expected. So to speak.
There's a story going around the milblogs the last week or so where an Afghan ambassador talks about how Trump is much more involved in Afghanistan than Obama ever was, and how Trump asked really great questions of Afghan leaders about how he can help and clearly was listening. I suspect this is part of that same attempt to rebrand Trump as totally not the Dilettante-in-Chief who's in over his head and doesn't really care anyway.
posted by Etrigan at 9:02 AM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Keep in mind that Flynn's main appeal to Trump was the very fact that Obama had fired him. Trump in his campaign often said that Obama was mistreating or ignoring his generals. So Obama telling Trump in person that he shouldn't hire Flynn would only increase Trump's resolve. The child idiot was determined to do everything the opposite of Obama.
posted by JackFlash at 9:03 AM on May 8, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by JackFlash at 9:03 AM on May 8, 2017 [26 favorites]
The only thing missing from that WH statement is the misuse of "your" for "you're."
posted by Lyme Drop at 9:05 AM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Lyme Drop at 9:05 AM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
BREAKING: Trump WH's first reaction to NBC exclusive that Pres Obama warned Trump against hiring Flynn last November during Oval Ofc mtg.
"Obama made the president aware he was not a fan of Michael Flynn and why would he be given this was a person who had been critical in a public way (tv, media appearances and campaigning with candidate Trump) of Obama."
What. I guess we've found the anonymous author of Has Anyone Really Been Far Even as Decided to Use Even Go Want to do Look More Like?
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:06 AM on May 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
"Obama made the president aware he was not a fan of Michael Flynn and why would he be given this was a person who had been critical in a public way (tv, media appearances and campaigning with candidate Trump) of Obama."
What. I guess we've found the anonymous author of Has Anyone Really Been Far Even as Decided to Use Even Go Want to do Look More Like?
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:06 AM on May 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Trump’s real base, the actual backbone of fascism, isn’t poor and working-class voters, but middle-class and affluent whites.I'll take "Both," for 500, Alex.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:08 AM on May 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
look at those final "record" numbers in a proper context.
Is there any comparison "eyeball" data for cnn.com / Breichbart, et. al.?
posted by petebest at 9:18 AM on May 8, 2017
Is there any comparison "eyeball" data for cnn.com / Breichbart, et. al.?
posted by petebest at 9:18 AM on May 8, 2017
NBC News: "Another official said Obama's remark seemed like it was made in jest."
posted by diogenes at 9:18 AM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by diogenes at 9:18 AM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
NBC News: "Another official said Obama's remark seemed like it was made in jest."
Yes, because the come-to-Jesus meeting where Obama tried to cram the importance of the job into Trump's empty head was the perfect time for jokes.
posted by Servo5678 at 9:21 AM on May 8, 2017 [39 favorites]
Yes, because the come-to-Jesus meeting where Obama tried to cram the importance of the job into Trump's empty head was the perfect time for jokes.
posted by Servo5678 at 9:21 AM on May 8, 2017 [39 favorites]
"Another official said Obama's remark seemed like it was made in jest."
That.....is fucking weak sauce as a defense. But it's consistent with the seriousness by which this incompetent administration takes its responsibilities.
posted by Existential Dread at 9:21 AM on May 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
That.....is fucking weak sauce as a defense. But it's consistent with the seriousness by which this incompetent administration takes its responsibilities.
posted by Existential Dread at 9:21 AM on May 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
Keep in mind that Flynn's main appeal to Trump was the very fact that Obama had fired him.
That and as a direct conduit to Putin.
posted by Artw at 9:21 AM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
That and as a direct conduit to Putin.
posted by Artw at 9:21 AM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
I dunno, it makes sense to me. Trump fucking hates Obama. If Obama says "look out for this guy"...of course he will elevate him as high as possible in the new administration. Everything makes more sense from the context of personal, petty vendetta against Obama.
posted by H. Roark at 9:22 AM on May 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by H. Roark at 9:22 AM on May 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
NBC News: "Another official said Obama's remark seemed like it was made in jest."
Yeah, I suspect that Trump thinks anyone who ever tells him "Don't do that" is joking.
posted by Etrigan at 9:23 AM on May 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
Yeah, I suspect that Trump thinks anyone who ever tells him "Don't do that" is joking.
posted by Etrigan at 9:23 AM on May 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
Trump: I Shall Exterminate Everything Around Me That Restricts Me from Being the Master
posted by murphy slaw at 9:31 AM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 9:31 AM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Having filled a Supreme Court vacancy, President Trump is turning his attention to the more than 120 openings on the lower federal courts. On Monday, he will announce a slate of 10 nominees to those courts, a senior White House official said, the first in what could be near monthly waves of nominations.
Senate Democrats need to take advantage of absolutely ever delaying tactic and dilatory motion they can. No more unanimous consent -- force a vote for everything. No compromises.
posted by Gelatin at 9:34 AM on May 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
Senate Democrats need to take advantage of absolutely ever delaying tactic and dilatory motion they can. No more unanimous consent -- force a vote for everything. No compromises.
posted by Gelatin at 9:34 AM on May 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
‘The president is threatening a witness’: CNN analyst slams Trump’s ‘disturbing’ Sally Yates tweets
Good points, if not totally understated.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:36 AM on May 8, 2017 [37 favorites]
Good points, if not totally understated.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:36 AM on May 8, 2017 [37 favorites]
The idea that Trump was in the dark about Flynn and only fired him for lying to Pence isn't holding up very well. And Yates hasn't even started testifying.
posted by diogenes at 9:36 AM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 9:36 AM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Trump: I Shall Exterminate Everything Around Me That Restricts Me from Being the Master
Vote Saxon?
posted by Servo5678 at 9:39 AM on May 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Vote Saxon?
posted by Servo5678 at 9:39 AM on May 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Maybe Trump's WH Counsil (sic) thought Yates was joking too.
posted by diogenes at 9:40 AM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 9:40 AM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
I mean, on the one hand, "Don't touch it - it's evil" does sort of sound like a joke, and I can see where the funny comes in when they actually touch it.
But on the other hand, it was evil.
posted by Mchelly at 9:41 AM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
But on the other hand, it was evil.
posted by Mchelly at 9:41 AM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
What is McMaster supposed to have done, here, if Trump did not, except for what he did do -- state the White House's official policy.
I mean, you can't really go to a foreign government with which you have formal treaties and say, "As far as I know, this isn't formal policy, and our official policy is this....but as you know, our president has holes in his brain and may decide to flip his shit at some point."
posted by Existential Dread at 9:45 AM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
I mean, you can't really go to a foreign government with which you have formal treaties and say, "As far as I know, this isn't formal policy, and our official policy is this....but as you know, our president has holes in his brain and may decide to flip his shit at some point."
posted by Existential Dread at 9:45 AM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
When will the Fake Media ask about the Dems dealings with Russia & why the DNC wouldn't allow the FBI to check their server or investigate?
Like I said, you lie when you get caught.
posted by Gelatin at 9:48 AM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
When will the Fake Media ask about the Dems dealings with Russia & why the DNC wouldn't allow the FBI to check their server or investigate?
Like I said, you lie when you get caught.
posted by Gelatin at 9:48 AM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
everything makes more sense if you assume that trump thinks that the president is a king and he gets to rule by decree.
executive orders are just press releases for the decrees.
when he speaks, he thinks his word is law until he says otherwise and he just can't understand why everyone isn't on board with that.
posted by murphy slaw at 9:50 AM on May 8, 2017 [19 favorites]
executive orders are just press releases for the decrees.
when he speaks, he thinks his word is law until he says otherwise and he just can't understand why everyone isn't on board with that.
posted by murphy slaw at 9:50 AM on May 8, 2017 [19 favorites]
"Like a poet, he speaks in metaphors."
Walkom's usually a fairly decent writer, but I just do not understand this apparently need pundits have to search and search and search for any sign that Trump knows what he's doing...like if you squint and look just to the side of the image you'll actually see a canny operator instead of a lazy, senile old man.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:58 AM on May 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
Walkom's usually a fairly decent writer, but I just do not understand this apparently need pundits have to search and search and search for any sign that Trump knows what he's doing...like if you squint and look just to the side of the image you'll actually see a canny operator instead of a lazy, senile old man.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:58 AM on May 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
I mean, on the one hand, "Don't touch it - it's evil" does sort of sound like a joke, and I can see where the funny comes in when they actually touch it.
But on the other hand, it was evil.
So when does all this concentrated evil turn them all into hermit crabs?
posted by delfin at 9:58 AM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
But on the other hand, it was evil.
So when does all this concentrated evil turn them all into hermit crabs?
posted by delfin at 9:58 AM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Senate Democrats need to take advantage of absolutely ever delaying tactic and dilatory motion they can. No more unanimous consent -- force a vote for everything. No compromises.
don't hold yr breath
posted by Joseph Gurl at 10:02 AM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
don't hold yr breath
posted by Joseph Gurl at 10:02 AM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
"Don't touch it - it's evil"
This reminds me of Time Bandits, the movie.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:15 AM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
This reminds me of Time Bandits, the movie.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:15 AM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Trump: I Shall Exterminate Everything Around Me That Restricts Me from Being the Master
"When I use a word," Humpty Trumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less."posted by kirkaracha at 10:18 AM on May 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Trumpty, "which is to be master — that's all."
The battle of the Nates is starting!
Nate Cohn published A 2016 Review: There’s Reason to Be Skeptical of a Comey Effect, which questions the impact of the lag between when polls are conducted and when they're released to show that the race was already tightening before the Comey letter came out.
Nate Silver responds, re-running the 538 model based on the dates polls were conducted. His view is that the Comey letter impacted the race by perhaps 1-2 points, which isn't a massive effect, but enough given the small margin involved.
posted by zachlipton at 10:19 AM on May 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
Nate Cohn published A 2016 Review: There’s Reason to Be Skeptical of a Comey Effect, which questions the impact of the lag between when polls are conducted and when they're released to show that the race was already tightening before the Comey letter came out.
Nate Silver responds, re-running the 538 model based on the dates polls were conducted. His view is that the Comey letter impacted the race by perhaps 1-2 points, which isn't a massive effect, but enough given the small margin involved.
posted by zachlipton at 10:19 AM on May 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
"which lasted far longer than either party anticipated"?
Spicer just went out of his way to call it an "hour-long meeting." Trump has a weird obsession with how long the meeting took. Honestly, an hour-long meeting may be the longest he's ever paid attention in his life.
posted by zachlipton at 10:20 AM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
Spicer just went out of his way to call it an "hour-long meeting." Trump has a weird obsession with how long the meeting took. Honestly, an hour-long meeting may be the longest he's ever paid attention in his life.
posted by zachlipton at 10:20 AM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
WaPo Daily 202: The Daily 202: Ivanka Trump’s life of privilege undermines the credibility of her new book’s message
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:30 AM on May 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
The bottom line: People like Ivanka have always had a leg up. The system has always been rigged to tilt the playing field toward the privileged and the well-connected. But reading this book and watching her wield such immense influence in a powerful West Wing role that she could never have landed if her dad was not the president, we cannot escape the hard truth that the United States is becoming less of a meritocracy than it used to be.If it was much of a meritocracy at all ( previously, more previously ).
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:30 AM on May 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
There are arguments in the Muslim Ban 2.0 case before the 4th Circuit in Virginia today at Sally Yates o'clock 2:30pm. You can follow the ACLU on twitter or listen on C-SPAN.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:31 AM on May 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 10:31 AM on May 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
everything makes more sense if you assume that trump thinks that the president is a king and he gets to rule by decree.
He thinks he's the CEO of America, Inc. The underlings are just annoyingly failing to implement their clear instructions.
posted by jaduncan at 10:32 AM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
He thinks he's the CEO of America, Inc. The underlings are just annoyingly failing to implement their clear instructions.
posted by jaduncan at 10:32 AM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
If it was much of a meritocracy at all
Already Great! (tm)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 10:32 AM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Already Great! (tm)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 10:32 AM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
WaPo: EPA dismisses half of key board’s scientific advisers, Interior suspends more than 200 advisory panels
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:35 AM on May 8, 2017 [28 favorites]
Separately, [Interior Secretary] Zinke has postponed all outside committees as he reviews their composition and work. The review will effectively freeze the work of the Bureau of Land Management’s 30 resource advisory committees, along with other panels focused on a range of issues, from one assessing the threat of invasive species to the science technical advisory panel for Alaska’s North Slope.The Interior story is as troubling as the EPA story.
“The Secretary is committed to restoring trust in the Department’s decision-making and that begins with institutionalizing state and local input and ongoing collaboration, particularly in communities surrounding public lands,” Interior spokeswoman Heather Swift said by email Monday. “As the Department concludes its review in the weeks ahead, agencies will notice future meetings to ensure that the Department continues to get the benefit of the views of local communities in all decision-making on public land management.”
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:35 AM on May 8, 2017 [28 favorites]
Also, the Daily 202 had a paragraph on Sally Yates' testimony today, and the title was "The Russia Connection", and I started thinking of "The Rainbow Connection".
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:39 AM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:39 AM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
That's such a great song
posted by Joseph Gurl at 10:41 AM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Joseph Gurl at 10:41 AM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
@ZeusHumms hahaha just Googled that actually & found this delight:
Someday they'll find out
The Russian connection
The non-sense, the fake news
And pee
posted by cybertaur1 at 10:41 AM on May 8, 2017 [42 favorites]
Someday they'll find out
The Russian connection
The non-sense, the fake news
And pee
posted by cybertaur1 at 10:41 AM on May 8, 2017 [42 favorites]
particularly in communities surrounding public lands
I know a little about this. I live close to a big national forest that sees an incredible amount of horribly destructive cattle ranching. Think "100's of cows, well above treeline on fragile alpine tundra". I do my part and go to the forest service meetings to voice my opposition and to assert the validity of my claim as a recreational user. The ranchers are total pieces of shit, essentially "rolling coal" through the meetings, then coming back with the coup-de-gras that any infringement on their ability to ranch (on MY land) is an attack on their cultural heritage. Keep in mind that these assholes pay $1.20 per "animal unit - 1 bull or cow and calf" per MONTH to graze. Some of their harshest opponents are ranchers who dont get the leases, who pay for their own land and the lower yields commensurate with ensuring the land can support their herds indefinitely.
The process is completely corrupted. The forest service is, I believe, trying to do the right thing and find middle ground. I fully expect this process to get worse before it gets better.
ugh.
posted by H. Roark at 10:45 AM on May 8, 2017 [46 favorites]
I know a little about this. I live close to a big national forest that sees an incredible amount of horribly destructive cattle ranching. Think "100's of cows, well above treeline on fragile alpine tundra". I do my part and go to the forest service meetings to voice my opposition and to assert the validity of my claim as a recreational user. The ranchers are total pieces of shit, essentially "rolling coal" through the meetings, then coming back with the coup-de-gras that any infringement on their ability to ranch (on MY land) is an attack on their cultural heritage. Keep in mind that these assholes pay $1.20 per "animal unit - 1 bull or cow and calf" per MONTH to graze. Some of their harshest opponents are ranchers who dont get the leases, who pay for their own land and the lower yields commensurate with ensuring the land can support their herds indefinitely.
The process is completely corrupted. The forest service is, I believe, trying to do the right thing and find middle ground. I fully expect this process to get worse before it gets better.
ugh.
posted by H. Roark at 10:45 AM on May 8, 2017 [46 favorites]
It just - it feels like Trump has a Michael Scott level of understanding of how government works ('I declare bankruptcy!,' '...you have to do more than just say that.');
Holy cow, that is so on the nose it's scary. Here's the clip, for those who haven't seen the reference.
There are arguments in the Muslim Ban 2.0 case before the 4th Circuit in Virginia today at Sally Yates o'clock 2:30pm. You can follow the ACLU on twitter or listen on C-SPAN.
If I heard correctly, thanks to the ACLU's petition, this is the first time the appeals court has allowed cameras.
Trump: I Shall Exterminate Everything Around Me That Restricts Me from Being the Master
Oh, great, we're in the Manos timeline now.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:51 AM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Holy cow, that is so on the nose it's scary. Here's the clip, for those who haven't seen the reference.
There are arguments in the Muslim Ban 2.0 case before the 4th Circuit in Virginia today at Sally Yates o'clock 2:30pm. You can follow the ACLU on twitter or listen on C-SPAN.
If I heard correctly, thanks to the ACLU's petition, this is the first time the appeals court has allowed cameras.
Trump: I Shall Exterminate Everything Around Me That Restricts Me from Being the Master
Oh, great, we're in the Manos timeline now.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:51 AM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
For those stymied by cowardly Republican representatives, this sounds interesting: Get a Democrat to come to your town hall.
There's a Dem rep in the district next to mine. I wonder if he'd come out and talk to those of us in my district.
posted by emjaybee at 10:56 AM on May 8, 2017 [30 favorites]
There's a Dem rep in the district next to mine. I wonder if he'd come out and talk to those of us in my district.
posted by emjaybee at 10:56 AM on May 8, 2017 [30 favorites]
I do my part and go to the forest service meetings to voice my opposition and to asset the validity of my claim as a recreational user. The ranchers are total pieces of shit, essentially "rolling coal" through the meetings, then coming back with the coup-de-gras that any infringement on their ability to ranch (on MY land) is an attack on their cultural heritage. Keep in mind that these assholes pay $1.20 per "animal unit - 1 bull or cow and calf" per MONTH to graze.
So what I'm hearing is that these people really have no legitimate right to any public land, and they should count themselves lucky that their shit isn't simply seized if we ever take power the way they wish they could.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 10:57 AM on May 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
So what I'm hearing is that these people really have no legitimate right to any public land, and they should count themselves lucky that their shit isn't simply seized if we ever take power the way they wish they could.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 10:57 AM on May 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
A few links before Sally Yates-o'clock.
The FCC's docket system is working again. Follow this link, click "express," then file your comment supporting Net Neutrality and opposing Ajit "I have a big novelty mug" Pai's agenda.
Margaret "please please come back and be the NYT public editor again" Sullivan: The government wants Julian Assange in jail. That could hurt the rest of us.
And on a related note, Brian "almost didn't include this link because I had nothing to put in quotes in between his names" Beutler has The Four Flagrant Lies Republicans Are Telling to Sell Trumpcare
posted by zachlipton at 11:03 AM on May 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
The FCC's docket system is working again. Follow this link, click "express," then file your comment supporting Net Neutrality and opposing Ajit "I have a big novelty mug" Pai's agenda.
Margaret "please please come back and be the NYT public editor again" Sullivan: The government wants Julian Assange in jail. That could hurt the rest of us.
Indeed, in Laura Poitras’s film about Assange, “Risk,” he comes across as neither normal nor particularly sympathetic.John "listen to my words but please don't look at how I vote on anything because you might notice I sell out all my values every single time" McCain: Why We Must Support Human Rights
Consider: He has been accused of rape in Sweden (he says he was entrapped and had to seek asylum from extradition); he has published leaked information that has intruded into private lives; and he may have helped Russian agents try to get Donald Trump elected president.
But everyone who cares about the free press in America needs to understand something else, too.
Prosecuting Assange under the Espionage Act for publishing leaked information — which Attorney General Jeff Sessions calls “a priority” — is dangerous. It could turn out to be a major move toward what President Trump has long been threatening to do: punish the independent media in America.
Our values are our strength and greatest treasure. We are distinguished from other countries because we are not made from a land or tribe or particular race or creed, but from an ideal that liberty is the inalienable right of mankind and in accord with nature and nature’s Creator.Four Pinocchios for Tom "phooey, nonsense" Price on for his statements about Medicaid spending and ACA penalties.
To view foreign policy as simply transactional is more dangerous than its proponents realize. Depriving the oppressed of a beacon of hope could lose us the world we have built and thrived in. It could cost our reputation in history as the nation distinct from all others in our achievements, our identity and our enduring influence on mankind. Our values are central to all three.
And on a related note, Brian "almost didn't include this link because I had nothing to put in quotes in between his names" Beutler has The Four Flagrant Lies Republicans Are Telling to Sell Trumpcare
posted by zachlipton at 11:03 AM on May 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
Let me clarify a little bit. My parents live way out in rural eastern Oregon and at every public meeting these same kind of brainless fucks show up in force with their guns and their stupid pickup trucks and the rest of their white people bullshit. My mom tries to show up and raise her voice and show that dissenting views do exist, and the stories she's told about getting shouted down by a room of angry and potentially violent men are scary (especially during the Malheur terrorist occupation last year). It's dangerous to stand up to those people, and while they hide behind freedom of speech, if they could they would rather just kill us, take over our public lands and trash and exploit them to their hearts content. Just like God wants.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 11:07 AM on May 8, 2017 [64 favorites]
posted by OverlappingElvis at 11:07 AM on May 8, 2017 [64 favorites]
Trump: I Shall Exterminate Everything Around Me That Restricts Me from Being the Master
This world we live in right now means that I had to google this to discover that it is the title of an Electric Six album because I could not rule out that it was an actual statement from the President.
posted by winna at 11:11 AM on May 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
This world we live in right now means that I had to google this to discover that it is the title of an Electric Six album because I could not rule out that it was an actual statement from the President.
posted by winna at 11:11 AM on May 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
NBC now says Flynn never received broader security clearance needed to serve as Natl Security Advisor before his firing.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:12 AM on May 8, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:12 AM on May 8, 2017 [19 favorites]
Turnipism: It’s Coming From the Suburbs
This this this this this.
posted by aspersioncast at 11:12 AM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
This this this this this.
posted by aspersioncast at 11:12 AM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
More of this please: Hawaii Democrat ‘Pushing Back’ Against Trump by Bolstering Abortion Access
posted by melissasaurus at 11:13 AM on May 8, 2017 [24 favorites]
A bill introduced by state Sen. Karl Rhoads permits registered nurses with an “advanced practice” designation to perform aspiration abortion care, the most common first-trimester procedure. [...] “Hawaii, of course, has long been a bastion of reproductive rights and I’d like to see it stay that way,” Rhoads said in an email to Rewire. “I expect the Trump administration to push hard on reproductive issues (well, more accurately the [Vice President]) and viewed this as pushing back.”One other thing of note from the article, the legislation is based on model legislation written by Public Leadership Institute, a progressive think tank (and future left-wing competitor to ALEC maybe????).
posted by melissasaurus at 11:13 AM on May 8, 2017 [24 favorites]
Trumpism: It’s Coming From the Suburbs
suburbs are the worst
posted by entropicamericana at 11:15 AM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
suburbs are the worst
posted by entropicamericana at 11:15 AM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
The ranchers are total pieces of shit, essentially "rolling coal" through the meetings, then coming back with the coup-de-gras that any infringement on their ability to ranch (on MY land) is an attack on their cultural heritage.
Sounds like more of a coup de grass to me.
sorry
posted by panic at 11:16 AM on May 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
Sounds like more of a coup de grass to me.
sorry
posted by panic at 11:16 AM on May 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
NBC now says Flynn never received broader security clearance needed to serve as Natl Security Advisor before his firing.
Link to tweet version of the story
Security Clearances are handled by different agencies depending on the position. The CIA vets National Security Council appointees. That clearance was never issued before he was fired.
posted by zachlipton at 11:16 AM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Link to tweet version of the story
Security Clearances are handled by different agencies depending on the position. The CIA vets National Security Council appointees. That clearance was never issued before he was fired.
posted by zachlipton at 11:16 AM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
NBC now says Flynn never received broader security clearance needed to serve as Natl Security Advisor before his firing.
So they're gonna spin this away from "We're too dumb to get the National Security Advisor a security clearance." to "We knew something was wrong, unlike Obama."
posted by Etrigan at 11:19 AM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
So they're gonna spin this away from "We're too dumb to get the National Security Advisor a security clearance." to "We knew something was wrong, unlike Obama."
posted by Etrigan at 11:19 AM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Georgia Republican enraged at court order making it easier for people to vote
posted by zombieflanders at 11:23 AM on May 8, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 11:23 AM on May 8, 2017 [25 favorites]
Slate: The Legend of Sally Yates
posted by ZeusHumms at 11:27 AM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
With a singular act of defiance, the former acting attorney general became a liberal hero. But does she deserve it?Or, How Sally Yates Defied Trump and Became a Legend.
posted by ZeusHumms at 11:27 AM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
C-SPAN: Sally Yates, James Clapper testify before a Senate Judiciary subcommittee on Russian Interference in 2016 Election
posted by zachlipton at 11:29 AM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:29 AM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
Lindsey Graham, unaware of hot mic, starts hearing with "Back in your cages" and "They take this free press thing too far." [real]
posted by klarck at 11:34 AM on May 8, 2017 [53 favorites]
posted by klarck at 11:34 AM on May 8, 2017 [53 favorites]
Watching Sally Yates settle in, surrounded by cameras, about to take down the most powerful man in the world. She's tough as nails, and calmer than you are, dude.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:36 AM on May 8, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 11:36 AM on May 8, 2017 [28 favorites]
On the it's coming from the suburbs tip, is "the suburbs" one of those things like "the middle class" where a lot of people think they are/aren't part of a group to which they do/don't belong according to objective criteria? That's certainly been my impression.
posted by aspersioncast at 11:43 AM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by aspersioncast at 11:43 AM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
During the press briefing today, a reporter asked Spicer why the "Muslim Ban" statement was still on Trump's website if Trump claims he isn't advocating such a ban. It's a question that's been asked many times without a response. Today, it appears to have been removed shortly after the briefing.
posted by zachlipton at 11:43 AM on May 8, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:43 AM on May 8, 2017 [19 favorites]
Sheldon Whitehouse going right after the Trump Boys public statements about Russian financing in opening statements. <3
posted by Room 641-A at 11:46 AM on May 8, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 11:46 AM on May 8, 2017 [21 favorites]
At the start of this Yates testimony.. Senator Whitehouse has been speaking for the last several minutes and seems to be jumping through several dates. Is this just a summary, or is he putting all this on record, or.. what? I'm having a hard time following everything he's bringing up.
posted by INFJ at 11:47 AM on May 8, 2017
posted by INFJ at 11:47 AM on May 8, 2017
Does anyone need a live stream? Here is PBS News Hour's on YouTube
posted by AFABulous at 11:47 AM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by AFABulous at 11:47 AM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
On the it's coming from the suburbs tip, is "the suburbs" one of those things like "the middle class" where a lot of people think they are/aren't part of a group to which they do/don't belong according to objective criteria?
there's a middle class?
posted by entropicamericana at 11:49 AM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
there's a middle class?
posted by entropicamericana at 11:49 AM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
Ted Lieu @tedlieu
Did @POTUS violate 18 USC 1512, which prevents "intimidation" of a witness to "influence" testimony in "official proceeding"? #SallyYates (just links to tweet)
posted by Room 641-A at 11:51 AM on May 8, 2017 [38 favorites]
Did @POTUS violate 18 USC 1512, which prevents "intimidation" of a witness to "influence" testimony in "official proceeding"? #SallyYates (just links to tweet)
posted by Room 641-A at 11:51 AM on May 8, 2017 [38 favorites]
John-Paul Schnapper-Casteras: The Problem with Palmer (emphasis in original)
[I]t is stunning to see the Department of Justice approvingly cite a case that at best allowed pretextual measures for avoiding racial integration -- and, more realistically, facilitated segregation by turning a blind eye to what was clearly going on in the City of Jackson. Is it really the position of the United States in 2017 -- either legally or morally -- that cities need not integrate whites-only pools and can instead close down public facilities altogether? If so, then that is jaw-dropping and wrong. If not, then the Department should not be relying upon Palmer in the first place. All of this is somewhat evocative of a recent brief by the state of Kansas favorably citing Dred Scott-- a move that quickly went viral, was widely condemned, and prompted a formal withdrawal and apology by the Kansas Attorney General. DOJ should consider a similar correction in this case.posted by zombieflanders at 11:52 AM on May 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
[...]
All told, by apparently resuscitating Palmer, the Trump Administration relies upon an odious and obsolete decision in the hopes of finding another way to categorically insulate its intent in effectuating the Muslim ban. For starters, that should invite the Fourth Circuit to press the Government about the implications and extent of it position -- and in the end, the judges should make clear that Palmer has no place in this case or in anti-discrimination law today.
Lawfare live blogs:
Sally Yates and Clapper
International Refugee Assistance Project v. Trump
About the court hearing, this is a good blog post from the Take Care Blog on The Problem with Palmer. It discusses how the Justice Department is citing Palmer v. Thompson, a case where Jackson, Mississippi shut down all its public pools rather than follow court orders to desegregate them. That case is being used now to argue that the courts shouldn't be looking at discriminatory intent behind the travel ban. It's a disturbing citation that shouldn't go unnoticed.
posted by zachlipton at 11:53 AM on May 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
Sally Yates and Clapper
International Refugee Assistance Project v. Trump
About the court hearing, this is a good blog post from the Take Care Blog on The Problem with Palmer. It discusses how the Justice Department is citing Palmer v. Thompson, a case where Jackson, Mississippi shut down all its public pools rather than follow court orders to desegregate them. That case is being used now to argue that the courts shouldn't be looking at discriminatory intent behind the travel ban. It's a disturbing citation that shouldn't go unnoticed.
posted by zachlipton at 11:53 AM on May 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
Which is to say: it looks like the White House has been at pains to mislead the public and the press.
...in a pattern going back to the first days of the Trump campaign, I might add.
posted by Gelatin at 11:57 AM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
...in a pattern going back to the first days of the Trump campaign, I might add.
posted by Gelatin at 11:57 AM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
This bit Clapper is saying now is significant. He wasn't aware (at least officially, who's to say what he actually knew) of the FBI's counterintelligence investigation until Comey testified about it in March. If the investigation was that close-held, there's a good argument that taking any action on Flynn's clearance could have compromised the investigation.
posted by zachlipton at 12:00 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:00 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
On the it's coming from the suburbs tip, is "the suburbs" one of those things like "the middle class" where a lot of people think they are/aren't part of a group to which they do/don't belong according to objective criteria? That's certainly been my impression.
It's a bit more clear cut than "middle class", people generally know if they live int the suburbs or not. But when people refer the the suburbs there is usually a cultural element involved beyond the actual definition of the word. For example, I technically live in a suburb but it's the city's first suburb from over 100 years ago and few would call it a suburb now.
posted by charred husk at 12:03 PM on May 8, 2017
It's a bit more clear cut than "middle class", people generally know if they live int the suburbs or not. But when people refer the the suburbs there is usually a cultural element involved beyond the actual definition of the word. For example, I technically live in a suburb but it's the city's first suburb from over 100 years ago and few would call it a suburb now.
posted by charred husk at 12:03 PM on May 8, 2017
On the it's coming from the suburbs tip, is "the suburbs" one of those things like "the middle class" where a lot of people think they are/aren't part of a group to which they do/don't belong according to objective criteria?
This has been my experience - part of is that 'the suburbs' don't always fit the ideas of what we think of as suburbs - there are incredibly rural suburbs, and then there are plenty of first ring suburbs that are majority-PoC and have a lower per capita income than the city, without the infrastructure. Part of it is also people will claim to either be a city, suburb, or rural dweller as more of a signifier of who they want to be, rather than how the place that they live is incorporated.
posted by dinty_moore at 12:04 PM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
This has been my experience - part of is that 'the suburbs' don't always fit the ideas of what we think of as suburbs - there are incredibly rural suburbs, and then there are plenty of first ring suburbs that are majority-PoC and have a lower per capita income than the city, without the infrastructure. Part of it is also people will claim to either be a city, suburb, or rural dweller as more of a signifier of who they want to be, rather than how the place that they live is incorporated.
posted by dinty_moore at 12:04 PM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Did Yates just imply she has evidence of collusion? And is Linds Graham now spinning furiously?
posted by prefpara at 12:10 PM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by prefpara at 12:10 PM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Ug sorry guys I need to calm myself. She just went out of her way to say "I can't answer" isn't an "I know of evidence."
posted by prefpara at 12:11 PM on May 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by prefpara at 12:11 PM on May 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
[paraphrased, here's video]
Graham: Are you aware of any improper collusion between the Trump Campaign and Russia?
Clapper: No. I stand by my earlier statement.
Yates: I can't answer that because it would reveal classified information
Yates, follow-up: that's the same answer Comey gave when he was asked about that. You shouldn't assume the answer was yes just because I can't answer.
There's then a bunch of back and forth about the disparity in the answers.
posted by zachlipton at 12:11 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Graham: Are you aware of any improper collusion between the Trump Campaign and Russia?
Clapper: No. I stand by my earlier statement.
Yates: I can't answer that because it would reveal classified information
Yates, follow-up: that's the same answer Comey gave when he was asked about that. You shouldn't assume the answer was yes just because I can't answer.
There's then a bunch of back and forth about the disparity in the answers.
posted by zachlipton at 12:11 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
The red suburbs in Pittsburgh are the outer-ring, newly developed ones. The inner-ring, older ones are mostly blue (as are the ones to the east because of a confluence of the housing crisis, gentrification in the city, and the major employer in that area moving to the far north of the city). And then there are towns that are outside the city limits (Pittsburgh has very very small city limits, unchanged since basically the 19th century) that are old mill towns that are very low-income, very high unemployment, and struggling. They follow the rivers out of town and hey look, they're mostly blue (you can see the rivers on this map as blue blotches snaking away from the blue city through otherwise red areas).
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:13 PM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:13 PM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
I presume Lindsay Graham is spinning furiously anyway.
Which implies he knows just how dirty the Administration he's covering for is.
posted by Gelatin at 12:13 PM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
Which implies he knows just how dirty the Administration he's covering for is.
posted by Gelatin at 12:13 PM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
It's tricky to define 'suburb' for cultural/demographic purposes since if one just goes by the municipal boundaries, one can't compare (say) Chicago, which has barely expanded in 100 years (minus the O'Hare annexation) with Indianapolis, which is a consolidated city-county.
I'd say a good heuristic is "a suburb is an area predominately built up after World War II". Maybe making a distinction between areas built up from 1945-1970ish and areas built in the late '70s and onward (what I would probably call 'exurbs').
The end of WWII and the end of legal segregation seem to be good inflection points and, I think, reflect substantive changes in the way neighborhoods were designed and -- well, racially and class-ish-ly enforced.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:14 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'd say a good heuristic is "a suburb is an area predominately built up after World War II". Maybe making a distinction between areas built up from 1945-1970ish and areas built in the late '70s and onward (what I would probably call 'exurbs').
The end of WWII and the end of legal segregation seem to be good inflection points and, I think, reflect substantive changes in the way neighborhoods were designed and -- well, racially and class-ish-ly enforced.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:14 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Here's a clue for Rex Tillerson (of: “Our values around freedom, human dignity, the way people are treated – those are our values. Those are not our policies.") and John McCain (or, as zachlipton calls him above: John "listen to my words but please don't look at how I vote on anything because you might notice I sell out all my values every single time" McCain)
When you say one thing and do another: your real values are reflected by what you do.
posted by Nerd of the North at 12:14 PM on May 8, 2017 [21 favorites]
When you say one thing and do another: your real values are reflected by what you do.
posted by Nerd of the North at 12:14 PM on May 8, 2017 [21 favorites]
As a fellow sufferer, I'm confident when I say that Lindsey Graham has a hell of a case of heartburn right now.
posted by Room 641-A at 12:16 PM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 12:16 PM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
And here it is. [video]
Yates: "We weren't the only ones who knew all this." The Russians knew that Flynn mislead the Vice President and the American people, and they likely had proof. "This created a compromise situation, a situation where the National Security Advisor could essentially be blackmailed by the Russians." Says she met with McGahn and explained all this so the White House could take action.
posted by zachlipton at 12:18 PM on May 8, 2017 [40 favorites]
Yates: "We weren't the only ones who knew all this." The Russians knew that Flynn mislead the Vice President and the American people, and they likely had proof. "This created a compromise situation, a situation where the National Security Advisor could essentially be blackmailed by the Russians." Says she met with McGahn and explained all this so the White House could take action.
posted by zachlipton at 12:18 PM on May 8, 2017 [40 favorites]
[extremely Arrested Development Narrator voice: they did not take action.]
posted by zachlipton at 12:18 PM on May 8, 2017 [67 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:18 PM on May 8, 2017 [67 favorites]
Senate Democrats need to take advantage of absolutely ever delaying tactic and dilatory motion they can. No more unanimous consent -- force a vote for everything. No compromises.Just a reminder: we only need one (1) Senator to deny unanimous consent. We don't need the whole party, we don't need Schumer, we don't need 60 or 50 or even 2 people. Surely there's someone.
don't hold yr breath
posted by galaxy rise at 12:19 PM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
[extremely Arrested Development Narrator voice: they did not take action.]
(Because they were compromised too)
posted by Artw at 12:19 PM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
(Because they were compromised too)
posted by Artw at 12:19 PM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
As we watch Yates, it's helpful to flip back to the Washington Post's Flynn timeline [it seems to be off by a day, Yates is saying the second meeting was on the 27th, not the 26th]. Yates warned the White House on two separate occasions in January that Flynn represented a national security threat because Russia had evidence that Flynn lied to the Vice President and the American People. As Yates just put it, "to restate the obvious: you don't want your National Security Advisor compromised with the Russians."
Then this became public on February 9th, when the Post reported that Flynn lied. The White House still took no action. Then February 13th, the Post reported that the White House had known about it for weeks (because of the Yates meetings), and only then did they fire Flynn.
posted by zachlipton at 12:28 PM on May 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
Then this became public on February 9th, when the Post reported that Flynn lied. The White House still took no action. Then February 13th, the Post reported that the White House had known about it for weeks (because of the Yates meetings), and only then did they fire Flynn.
posted by zachlipton at 12:28 PM on May 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
WTF does Sen. Chuck Grassley expect Yates and Clapper to say to this , "Are you an anonymous leaker?"
posted by mikelieman at 12:29 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by mikelieman at 12:29 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Also according to Yates, McGahn's question upon learning that Flynn lied was why does the Justice Department care if one White House official lies to another [Flynn to the VP]. That's pretty astonishing. And, of course, they care because the NSA lying to the Vice President and the Russians knowing about it is an enormous national security threat.
posted by zachlipton at 12:30 PM on May 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:30 PM on May 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
WTF does Sen. Chuck Grassley expect Yates and Clapper to say to this , "Are you an anonymous leaker?"
Standard lawyering to get something on the record and to eliminate certain possibilities (however unlikely). I wouldn't read anything into that.
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:32 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Standard lawyering to get something on the record and to eliminate certain possibilities (however unlikely). I wouldn't read anything into that.
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:32 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
@AriMelber: Yates says Flynn talked to the FBI without a lawyer, and made untrue statements about his dealings with Russia. Wow.
This makes Flynn clearly an idiot, and it's Yates basically saying that Flynn committed a felony by lying to the FBI.
posted by zachlipton at 12:32 PM on May 8, 2017 [22 favorites]
This makes Flynn clearly an idiot, and it's Yates basically saying that Flynn committed a felony by lying to the FBI.
posted by zachlipton at 12:32 PM on May 8, 2017 [22 favorites]
Yates and Clapper are both under oath, so they're bound to reveal if they were an anonymous leaker, not that it isn't a dumbass question.
Clapper reveals that he requested the unmasking of Trump, a Trump associate or campaign member.
posted by vathek at 12:33 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Clapper reveals that he requested the unmasking of Trump, a Trump associate or campaign member.
posted by vathek at 12:33 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
That's pretty astonishing. And, of course, they care because the NSA lying to the Vice President and the Russians knowing about it is an enormous national security threat.
Whitehouse walked Yates through the risk of White House staff being exploitable
posted by mikelieman at 12:33 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Whitehouse walked Yates through the risk of White House staff being exploitable
posted by mikelieman at 12:33 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
George Will officially joins MSNBC.
The Foxification of MSNBC isn't shocking anymore, but still surprises me in that ratings typically lie in being the opposition party. As evidenced by Maddow and the rest of the liberal wing of MSNBC's ratings surge.
Didn't George Will just write a column basically saying that Trump was literally insane? If anything, it looks like they're positioning to be a moderate bipartisan anti-Trump network.
posted by msalt at 12:34 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
The Foxification of MSNBC isn't shocking anymore, but still surprises me in that ratings typically lie in being the opposition party. As evidenced by Maddow and the rest of the liberal wing of MSNBC's ratings surge.
Didn't George Will just write a column basically saying that Trump was literally insane? If anything, it looks like they're positioning to be a moderate bipartisan anti-Trump network.
posted by msalt at 12:34 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Didn't George Will just write a column basically saying that Trump was literally insane? If anything, it looks like they're positioning to be a moderate bipartisan anti-Trump network.
A Guide To George Will's Decades Of Attacks On Sexual Assault Victims And "Rape Crisis Feminists" [Media Matters]
posted by melissasaurus at 12:37 PM on May 8, 2017 [20 favorites]
A Guide To George Will's Decades Of Attacks On Sexual Assault Victims And "Rape Crisis Feminists" [Media Matters]
posted by melissasaurus at 12:37 PM on May 8, 2017 [20 favorites]
Trump could shoot someone in Times Square and he wouldn't lose a single Congressional Republican from his pocket.
They don't have enough strength or enough spine to crawl out.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:37 PM on May 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
They don't have enough strength or enough spine to crawl out.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:37 PM on May 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
it's a weird world where you can call george will a "moderate" but the overton window has shifted far enough that i'll grant it in this case
posted by murphy slaw at 12:37 PM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 12:37 PM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Want to know how bad this testimony is for the White House? Even Chris Cillizza managed to get it through his thick skull that there might be something wrong with the White House waiting 18 days to take action after being informed that Flynn's lies represented a national security risk. If he thinks there's a problem...
posted by zachlipton at 12:39 PM on May 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:39 PM on May 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
George Will and the couple 'no' Trumpcare voters like Darrell Issa are not moderates. Not even in the Trumpland hellscape we currently inhabit.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:40 PM on May 8, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:40 PM on May 8, 2017 [18 favorites]
Not nonsense! The First Amendment applies to non-citizens, even those abroad, if you're talking about using the US judicial system to do the punishing.
posted by notyou at 12:42 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by notyou at 12:42 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
What's the deal with Clapper? He keeps asking for questions to be repeated, stumbles over his answers, and generally looks shifty as hell
posted by theodolite at 12:43 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by theodolite at 12:43 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Cornyn is babbling about 'unmasking' because he's suddenly afraid of privacy concerns.
posted by winna at 12:46 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by winna at 12:46 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
He keeps asking for questions to be repeated
Old age. He might be hard of hearing.
And also when you have as much classified knowledge in your head, you want to make sure you don't accidentally let something slip. Or at least that's my impression.
posted by INFJ at 12:47 PM on May 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Old age. He might be hard of hearing.
And also when you have as much classified knowledge in your head, you want to make sure you don't accidentally let something slip. Or at least that's my impression.
posted by INFJ at 12:47 PM on May 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Clapper outright lied to Congress in 2013:
posted by zachlipton at 12:48 PM on May 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
At the tail end of a rare open session of the Senate Intelligence Committee on March 12, 2013, Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore., asked National Intelligence Director James Clapper whether intelligence officials collect data on Americans.He is shifty as hell when it comes to Congressional testimony and should have been charged with a felony.
Clapper responded "No, sir," and, "Not wittingly."
posted by zachlipton at 12:48 PM on May 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
Now Cornyn is asking Yates about her refusal to defend the immigration order.
posted by winna at 12:50 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by winna at 12:50 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
I think INFJ is correct, it looks to me like Clapper simply has trouble with his hearing. As will we all if we live long enough.
posted by Justinian at 12:50 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 12:50 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
yo fuck you cornyn
posted by H. Roark at 12:53 PM on May 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by H. Roark at 12:53 PM on May 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
The republicans are certainly all alarmed about privacy concerns today for the first time ever.
posted by winna at 12:54 PM on May 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by winna at 12:54 PM on May 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
I never met Clapper before. Too many characters in this odd mix between Le Carré and Dickens. I like him. He is careful. A real spy. This is high drama, and he is a rich character in it. Always possible he's a real well known villian, in which case I retract.
posted by stonepharisee at 12:55 PM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by stonepharisee at 12:55 PM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Senator Durbin is now subtweeting Cornyn right to his face by thanking other Republicans for taking this hearing seriously and professionally and pointedly excluding Cornyn.
posted by winna at 12:56 PM on May 8, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by winna at 12:56 PM on May 8, 2017 [19 favorites]
Cornyn: "What was your authority to overrule the Office of Legal Counsel?"
Yates: "I was the Attorney General of the United States."
posted by zombieflanders at 12:57 PM on May 8, 2017 [119 favorites]
Yates: "I was the Attorney General of the United States."
posted by zombieflanders at 12:57 PM on May 8, 2017 [119 favorites]
The republicans are certainly all alarmed about privacy concerns today for the first time ever.
Durbin just said as much, in slightly senateyer terms.
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:57 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Durbin just said as much, in slightly senateyer terms.
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:57 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Senator Durbin is great. He's going hard.
posted by prefpara at 12:58 PM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by prefpara at 12:58 PM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Q: "Did you think there was a reason to be concerned about one white house official lying to another?"
A: "I think his point was why the DOJ would care about one wh official lying to another. [...] It was a whole lot more - it was the vice president going out to the american people with this information."
posted by winna at 12:59 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
A: "I think his point was why the DOJ would care about one wh official lying to another. [...] It was a whole lot more - it was the vice president going out to the american people with this information."
posted by winna at 12:59 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
WOO HOO!
Yates: "1001 violation..."
DRINK!
18 USC 1001. "Never Fib to a Fed" A.K.A.: What got Martha Stewart sent up for a year! My favourite!
posted by mikelieman at 1:00 PM on May 8, 2017 [26 favorites]
Yates: "1001 violation..."
DRINK!
18 USC 1001. "Never Fib to a Fed" A.K.A.: What got Martha Stewart sent up for a year! My favourite!
posted by mikelieman at 1:00 PM on May 8, 2017 [26 favorites]
This hearing is weird to watch. There are no musical cues, nobody has yet used the phrase "like nothing we've ever seen before," and Sally Yates isn't for inexplicable reasons in her underwear.
There's been practically no new information given out yet but hearing it all like this, even now, part of me can't accept that this is a thing that's happening for real and not in a budget adaptation of the sequel to Rainbow Six or something.
posted by Dormant Gorilla at 1:00 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
There's been practically no new information given out yet but hearing it all like this, even now, part of me can't accept that this is a thing that's happening for real and not in a budget adaptation of the sequel to Rainbow Six or something.
posted by Dormant Gorilla at 1:00 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
I wonder if Trump ever golfs on a golf course he doesn't own.
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:01 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:01 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yates did a great job of throwing Cornyn's own words back at him. He was trying to claim she should have deferred to the White House and defended the muslim ban EO even if she thought it was unlawful. She then reminded him that at her own confirmation hearing, Cornyn asked if she would say no to the President if asked to defend something unlawful, and she said yes.
posted by dnash at 1:01 PM on May 8, 2017 [108 favorites]
posted by dnash at 1:01 PM on May 8, 2017 [108 favorites]
Oh god its Ted Cruz. Not this shit again.
posted by Justinian at 1:01 PM on May 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 1:01 PM on May 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
He is shifty as hell when it comes to Congressional testimony and should have been charged with a felony.
But he's saying the same thing now. "702 is used for collection of a non-US person, overseas." He claims the only reason he would request unmasking is when it is needed to understand the significance of the intelligence collected when spying on foreigners. Is "US Person 1" from this report the same as "US Person 3" from that report a month ago? Is "US Person 1" a highly placed person or a peon? If they are being recruited or targeted, how dangerous is that?
But "US Person 1" is, in these cases, not the target of the collection. That's why it's called "incidental."
You may doubt his statement that he only requests to see American names in those specific contexts or that the process ensures they are only granted when genuinely necessary, but I would say that his current testimony does not contradict the statements you cite. He is still claiming that intelligence officials collect do NOT deliberately collect data on Americans. The government can't really help it that Americans sometimes entangle themselves with foreign collection targets in ways that make it hard to disentangle them.
Like by taking money from Turkey... Or colluding with Russia. I think I'm glad our intelligence agencies can find out about that stuff, and find out the names of the people engaged in stuff like that if necessary.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:02 PM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
But he's saying the same thing now. "702 is used for collection of a non-US person, overseas." He claims the only reason he would request unmasking is when it is needed to understand the significance of the intelligence collected when spying on foreigners. Is "US Person 1" from this report the same as "US Person 3" from that report a month ago? Is "US Person 1" a highly placed person or a peon? If they are being recruited or targeted, how dangerous is that?
But "US Person 1" is, in these cases, not the target of the collection. That's why it's called "incidental."
You may doubt his statement that he only requests to see American names in those specific contexts or that the process ensures they are only granted when genuinely necessary, but I would say that his current testimony does not contradict the statements you cite. He is still claiming that intelligence officials collect do NOT deliberately collect data on Americans. The government can't really help it that Americans sometimes entangle themselves with foreign collection targets in ways that make it hard to disentangle them.
Like by taking money from Turkey... Or colluding with Russia. I think I'm glad our intelligence agencies can find out about that stuff, and find out the names of the people engaged in stuff like that if necessary.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:02 PM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
This hearing is weird to watch. There are no musical cues, nobody has yet used the phrase "like nothing we've ever seen before," and Sally Yates isn't for inexplicable reasons in her underwear.
What, was it supposed to be like Ally McBeal or Single Female Lawyer?
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:02 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
What, was it supposed to be like Ally McBeal or Single Female Lawyer?
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:02 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
To be less opaque Ted Cruz appears to be fucking going after Huma Abedin.
posted by Justinian at 1:02 PM on May 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 1:02 PM on May 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
OH NO CRUZ IS NOT DOING BUT HER EMAILS
posted by winna at 1:02 PM on May 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by winna at 1:02 PM on May 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
Ted Cruz wants to talk about the harms that come from leaks. Rage blackout.
posted by prefpara at 1:02 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by prefpara at 1:02 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Ted Cruz is making this about Hillary's fucking emails and I am throwing things.
posted by zachlipton at 1:03 PM on May 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 1:03 PM on May 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
She then reminded him that at her own confirmation hearing, Cornyn asked if she would say no to the President if asked to defend something unlawful, and she said yes.
I wonder whether Cornyn and everyone who works for him are the dumbest person in the world or they all simply think that Yates is the dumbest person in the world.
posted by Etrigan at 1:03 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
I wonder whether Cornyn and everyone who works for him are the dumbest person in the world or they all simply think that Yates is the dumbest person in the world.
posted by Etrigan at 1:03 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Ladies and Gentlemen, douchebag Ted Cruz with another round of "It's not the Russian Spy in the White House, it's about the leaks about the Russian Spy in the White House..."
posted by mikelieman at 1:03 PM on May 8, 2017
posted by mikelieman at 1:03 PM on May 8, 2017
Maybe he'll eat another booger on CSPAN
posted by Existential Dread at 1:04 PM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Existential Dread at 1:04 PM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
I don't like this Ted Cruz fellow.
posted by diogenes at 1:04 PM on May 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 1:04 PM on May 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
OH NO CRUZ IS NOT DOING BUT HER EMAILS
[ron howard voice]: he is
posted by winna at 1:04 PM on May 8, 2017 [41 favorites]
[ron howard voice]: he is
posted by winna at 1:04 PM on May 8, 2017 [41 favorites]
I misunderestimated what a gross, awful pig Ted Cruz is. He is going hard for Huma for forwarding emails to her husband. Hell is too good for him.
posted by prefpara at 1:05 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by prefpara at 1:05 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Cruz just ripped off his suit to reveal an airbrushed LOCK HER UP tee
posted by theodolite at 1:05 PM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 1:05 PM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
I fucking hate my senators so much.
posted by DynamiteToast at 1:05 PM on May 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by DynamiteToast at 1:05 PM on May 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
D'ya think Cruz has the balls to ask Yates a question?
posted by TWinbrook8 at 1:05 PM on May 8, 2017
posted by TWinbrook8 at 1:05 PM on May 8, 2017
Really disappointed that Cruz is completely ignoring the real issue here (Benghazi)
posted by acidic at 1:06 PM on May 8, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by acidic at 1:06 PM on May 8, 2017 [27 favorites]
I forgot how much Ted Cruz makes my skin crawl. And I muted him.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:06 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Room 641-A at 1:06 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
lol. She's going to rip him a new a-hole..
posted by mikelieman at 1:08 PM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by mikelieman at 1:08 PM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
i just want to chuck a can of soup at ted cruz's head as hard as i can
posted by murphy slaw at 1:08 PM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 1:08 PM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Oh man, Cruz is repulsive. Hate hate hate.
posted by futz at 1:09 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by futz at 1:09 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Damn it, I knew that 4pm wasn't too early for a drinking game.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:09 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:09 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
She just stomped on Ted Cruz's head, and it felt good.
posted by stonepharisee at 1:09 PM on May 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by stonepharisee at 1:09 PM on May 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
OMG. Yates just said her citation 'trumps' Cruz's!
AND she already disassembled the Office of Legal Counsel..
posted by mikelieman at 1:09 PM on May 8, 2017 [29 favorites]
AND she already disassembled the Office of Legal Counsel..
posted by mikelieman at 1:09 PM on May 8, 2017 [29 favorites]
Now Cruz is going after Yates for refusing to enforce the unconstitutional EO. What a waste of everyone's time he is.
posted by prefpara at 1:09 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by prefpara at 1:09 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
From the way Cruz and Cornyn are talking about this, you'd think that Yates' concern about the legality of the Muslim ban EO hadn't been amply substantiated by the courts.
posted by vathek at 1:09 PM on May 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by vathek at 1:09 PM on May 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Ted, die in a fire
posted by waitangi at 1:10 PM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by waitangi at 1:10 PM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Every time Ted Cruz talks, an angel loses its wings.
posted by diogenes at 1:10 PM on May 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 1:10 PM on May 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
Yates throwing statues back at Cruz makes me think of the Bible quote-fight in Footloose.
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:10 PM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:10 PM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
Who are the trash lawyers who coached Cornyn and Cruz on these sleazy attempts to avoid dealing with the actual subject of these hearings.
posted by winna at 1:10 PM on May 8, 2017
posted by winna at 1:10 PM on May 8, 2017
Yates feeding the Constitution down Cruz's gullet until his inner goo coats her elbow.
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:10 PM on May 8, 2017 [37 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:10 PM on May 8, 2017 [37 favorites]
Haha fuck you Ted Cruz
posted by theodolite at 1:11 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 1:11 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Man she is eating him alive and it is just great.
The total conflation of "policy/legality" that Cruz is trying here is just so vacuous. Its like they aren't PRESENTLY AT THIS VERY MOMENT litigating this question in court.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 1:11 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
The total conflation of "policy/legality" that Cruz is trying here is just so vacuous. Its like they aren't PRESENTLY AT THIS VERY MOMENT litigating this question in court.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 1:11 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
every time ted cruz talks, a flock of birds falls dead from the sky and a plague of locusts destroys a farm
posted by entropicamericana at 1:11 PM on May 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 1:11 PM on May 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
Amy Klobuchar just made a point of thanking Yates for her long and distinguished career before pointing out that the entire doj was left in the dark about the executive order.
posted by winna at 1:12 PM on May 8, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by winna at 1:12 PM on May 8, 2017 [18 favorites]
Please stop live blogging and save that for chat if you do desire. Make your comments have some substance, not all of us are watching television with you right now and it clutters up an already long thread. Thank you.
posted by agregoli at 1:12 PM on May 8, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by agregoli at 1:12 PM on May 8, 2017 [22 favorites]
What kind of willpower does it take to resist the urge to lean into the mic and answer with, "Senator Cruz, this is why no one likes you."
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:12 PM on May 8, 2017 [39 favorites]
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:12 PM on May 8, 2017 [39 favorites]
until his inner goo coats her elbow
it's just a 50/50 mix of campbell's cream of mushroom and hatefulness from the neck down.
posted by murphy slaw at 1:13 PM on May 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
it's just a 50/50 mix of campbell's cream of mushroom and hatefulness from the neck down.
posted by murphy slaw at 1:13 PM on May 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
D'ya think Cruz has the balls to ask Yates a question?
Whenever I see "having balls" used to mean "having guts" I think of this line from the L7 song, Fast and Frightening: "got so much clit she don't need no balls."
posted by Room 641-A at 1:13 PM on May 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
Whenever I see "having balls" used to mean "having guts" I think of this line from the L7 song, Fast and Frightening: "got so much clit she don't need no balls."
posted by Room 641-A at 1:13 PM on May 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
> Yates throwing statues back at Cruz makes me think of the Bible quote-fight in Footloose.
I didn't know there would be statue throwing.
posted by guiseroom at 1:13 PM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
I didn't know there would be statue throwing.
posted by guiseroom at 1:13 PM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Mod note: Y'all I know it's a big weird day and that Cruz is an enormous pile of shit, but please rein in the contextless liveblogging stuff in this already very long thread.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:14 PM on May 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:14 PM on May 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
What, was it supposed to be like Ally McBeal or Single Female Lawyer?
? No. The White House Counsel saying to the Attorney General "so one White House official lied to a bunch of other White House officials, is that, like, bad?" is so ridiculous that it should only happen in a B movie.
posted by Dormant Gorilla at 1:18 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
? No. The White House Counsel saying to the Attorney General "so one White House official lied to a bunch of other White House officials, is that, like, bad?" is so ridiculous that it should only happen in a B movie.
posted by Dormant Gorilla at 1:18 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
So beyond the absurdity of Cruz's questions, there was substance in there, albeit not about Russia. Nobody told Yates about the travel ban order until she heard about it from the media. She met with McGahn around 3pn the day the order came out, and nobody mentioned it. Indeed, Yates indicated that she and others at the Justice Department were deliberately kept out of the loop, that she can't think of another instance where the Office of Legal Counsel was told to hide something from the Attorney General.
posted by zachlipton at 1:18 PM on May 8, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 1:18 PM on May 8, 2017 [34 favorites]
It is, cortex, but this is some fine ass live stuff going on, as has happened only a few times before. Maybe let it slide, or is there a better way? Does chat work for this?
posted by stonepharisee at 1:18 PM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by stonepharisee at 1:18 PM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Klobuchar asks Yates about the issue with real estate deals involving shell corporations which impacts money laundering.
Yates says this can have national security implications as well as criminal investigations. Klobuchar follows up by asking for an independent commission to investigate prior to the next election.
posted by winna at 1:18 PM on May 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
Yates says this can have national security implications as well as criminal investigations. Klobuchar follows up by asking for an independent commission to investigate prior to the next election.
posted by winna at 1:18 PM on May 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
maybe we should just set up a MeFi Project to roast ted cruz
posted by murphy slaw at 1:19 PM on May 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 1:19 PM on May 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
Come to chat! We're just shooting the shit over there anyway
posted by Existential Dread at 1:20 PM on May 8, 2017
posted by Existential Dread at 1:20 PM on May 8, 2017
Wait, we're allowed to cook and eat him?
posted by Dormant Gorilla at 1:21 PM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Dormant Gorilla at 1:21 PM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Omg please take it to chat.
posted by agregoli at 1:21 PM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by agregoli at 1:21 PM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
Who just said "until they pay a price, and they will pay"? Grahm? Who was he talking about? It was said right before Sasse started his turn.
posted by futz at 1:23 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by futz at 1:23 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
I want to be fair, so I will observe that Sen. Sasse is actually asking about Russia. Not all Rs are equally disgusting.
posted by prefpara at 1:23 PM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by prefpara at 1:23 PM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Clapper just said that one of the issues with interference in other elections is financing candidates sympathetic to their cause. It's in the context of countries close to Russia impacted by campaign tampering but it is certainly pointed.
Senator Sasse just asked Clapper to confirm that wikileaks is a non-nation-state intelligence service.
posted by winna at 1:24 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Senator Sasse just asked Clapper to confirm that wikileaks is a non-nation-state intelligence service.
posted by winna at 1:24 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
prefpara I too was baffled and confused by Sasse being sensible and serious so I looked him up. He's a homophobe and prolife.
Oh well I guess they can't all be universally terrible across the entire spectrum of terrible.
posted by winna at 1:26 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Oh well I guess they can't all be universally terrible across the entire spectrum of terrible.
posted by winna at 1:26 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
If you aren't near a TV, and you want details of the hearing without the snark, just go to the Lawfare live blog. Personally, I'm here for the snark.
posted by diogenes at 1:27 PM on May 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 1:27 PM on May 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Along with his questions being intelligent and reasonable, Sasse is acting like he's taking things seriously. It's a world of difference from Cruz/Grassley/Cornyn.
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:27 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:27 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Cruz has apparently left the hearing. He asked about emails and the travel ban, nothing about Russian interference in our election process. He couldn't be bothered to stay for the rest of it.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:28 PM on May 8, 2017 [44 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:28 PM on May 8, 2017 [44 favorites]
I like snark! But not contextless snark. This has been requested nicely and repeatedly by mods in every U.S. politics thread since before the election. You can do it, I believe in all of you.
posted by agregoli at 1:31 PM on May 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by agregoli at 1:31 PM on May 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
Cruz has apparently left the hearing.
I'm really hoping that not even pretending to care about Trump's connections to Russia eventually becomes a political liability.
posted by diogenes at 1:31 PM on May 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
I'm really hoping that not even pretending to care about Trump's connections to Russia eventually becomes a political liability.
posted by diogenes at 1:31 PM on May 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
Cruz has apparently left the hearing. He asked about emails and the travel ban, nothing about Russian interference in our election process. He couldn't be bothered to stay for the rest of it.
Trying to institute a Christian Dominionist theocracy takes up a lot of hours of his day.
He's like if Frank Underwood were devoid of charm and competency.
posted by Talez at 1:32 PM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Trying to institute a Christian Dominionist theocracy takes up a lot of hours of his day.
He's like if Frank Underwood were devoid of charm and competency.
posted by Talez at 1:32 PM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Cruz vs. Yates, condensed into emojis.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:32 PM on May 8, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:32 PM on May 8, 2017 [20 favorites]
CNN Panel Taken Aback By Trump Tweets On Yates: It’s ‘Beyond The Pale’
“He’s the President of the United States and the former acting attorney general is about to testify under oath before the United States Congress and you tweet, ‘Ask Sally Yates under oath if she knows how classified information got into the newspapers soon after she explained it to the White House counsel,'” CNN’s John King said.
“I started, before I got into covering politics all the time, I used to cover the courts a lot. A lawyer would call that witness intimidation,” he added.
posted by futz at 1:33 PM on May 8, 2017 [47 favorites]
“He’s the President of the United States and the former acting attorney general is about to testify under oath before the United States Congress and you tweet, ‘Ask Sally Yates under oath if she knows how classified information got into the newspapers soon after she explained it to the White House counsel,'” CNN’s John King said.
“I started, before I got into covering politics all the time, I used to cover the courts a lot. A lawyer would call that witness intimidation,” he added.
posted by futz at 1:33 PM on May 8, 2017 [47 favorites]
Sasse is one of those True Believer types where his beliefs may frequently be odious, but he has a reputation for at least being consistent about it. If he was not a fan of Russian election tampering in 2015, he is still not a fan of it, unlike so many of his colleagues. By the standards of the current Republican Party, this makes him a Maverick (tm).
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:33 PM on May 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:33 PM on May 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
I'm really hoping that not even pretending to care about Trump's connections to Russia eventually becomes a political liability.
Not likely. Texas would elect a moldy bologna sandwich as a Republican before a Democrat.
posted by Talez at 1:34 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Not likely. Texas would elect a moldy bologna sandwich as a Republican before a Democrat.
posted by Talez at 1:34 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
I do have to agree that at least Sasse is not completely meretricious in this context.
I am also massively irritated by the way the republicans keep calling her 'miss' yates pointedly.
posted by winna at 1:36 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
I am also massively irritated by the way the republicans keep calling her 'miss' yates pointedly.
posted by winna at 1:36 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
This Washington Post profile of Sasse last summer made it sound he's likely running as a "moderate" Republican in the next election cycle or two.
posted by martin q blank at 1:36 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by martin q blank at 1:36 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Senator John Kennedy is asking at what point does an executive order or an act of congress become unconstitutional and asks Yates who appointed her to the supreme court.
posted by winna at 1:38 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by winna at 1:38 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Sen. John Kennedy (R- LA) just said what we're all thinking.
Supreme Court Justice Sally Yates.
posted by mikelieman at 1:40 PM on May 8, 2017 [47 favorites]
Supreme Court Justice Sally Yates.
posted by mikelieman at 1:40 PM on May 8, 2017 [47 favorites]
John Kennedy says he's not trying to minimize the impact of Russian interference on the election as he works very hard to minimize the impact on the election.
posted by winna at 1:41 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by winna at 1:41 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
He is essentially arguing that something only becomes unconstitutional when the Supreme Court calls it unconstitutional. Which I think is a terrible argument. It is either constitutional or unconstitutional the moment it is issued/signed into law regardless of whether or not it is yet recognized as such by the Supreme Court.
posted by Justinian at 1:41 PM on May 8, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 1:41 PM on May 8, 2017 [23 favorites]
Kennedy asks Clapper if he has ever leaked non-classified information and Clapper says that non-classified information isn't leaking. There is uproarious laughter.
posted by winna at 1:42 PM on May 8, 2017 [49 favorites]
posted by winna at 1:42 PM on May 8, 2017 [49 favorites]
Or even before it is issued or signed - a bill or executive order reinstituting slavery would be on-face unconstitutional from the moment it was even conceived. . .
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 1:42 PM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 1:42 PM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Republicans are turning this into a hearing on the Muslim ban and avoiding any mention that, oh, maybe Russia interfered with the election and had inappropriate influence over the National Security Adviser and potentially the President himself.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:43 PM on May 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:43 PM on May 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Now that we know definitively that the President of the United States appointed a foreign agent to a position in which he would have access to literally all government secrets, and kept him in this position for weeks after being "informed", I'm glad the Republicans are focused on what really matters, which is, who leaked this to the press?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:44 PM on May 8, 2017 [57 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:44 PM on May 8, 2017 [57 favorites]
I wonder if Sally Yates is interested in going into politics?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:45 PM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:45 PM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
There is uproarious laughter.
I'm sure Jeff Sessions will have them all arrested.
posted by gladly at 1:46 PM on May 8, 2017 [37 favorites]
I'm sure Jeff Sessions will have them all arrested.
posted by gladly at 1:46 PM on May 8, 2017 [37 favorites]
I'm pretty confident I've leaked non-classified information. Maybe I should testify?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:47 PM on May 8, 2017
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:47 PM on May 8, 2017
I'd love to see Sally Yates run for Senate but she'd be running in Georgia and we know how that would work out. Perhaps a House seat instead?
posted by Justinian at 1:48 PM on May 8, 2017
posted by Justinian at 1:48 PM on May 8, 2017
She should move and run against Ted Cruz
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:48 PM on May 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:48 PM on May 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
Leahy asks Clapper if senior officials have hidden financial information from the government if that is an area through which they can be blackmailed and if the Russians search for that sort of thing. Clapper agreed.
posted by winna at 1:49 PM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by winna at 1:49 PM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
Leahy asks after confirming that Clapper feels sure that the Russian government interfered with the election if it serves any purpose for the president to say that it could be anyone else other than Russia? Clapper says you could rationalize that it serves the Russians by obfuscating who is responsible. Leahy ends with that question.
posted by winna at 1:52 PM on May 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by winna at 1:52 PM on May 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
This hearing is supposed to be about Russian interference in the 2016 election, right? Why are Senators allowed to spend their time asking questions that aren't related to that? Is it just because the chair is a Republican and no one else can prevent it?
posted by diogenes at 1:53 PM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 1:53 PM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
"A lawyer would call that witness intimidation," he added.
Whereas a New York real-estate magnate would call it "The Art of The Deal"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:53 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Whereas a New York real-estate magnate would call it "The Art of The Deal"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:53 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Here's Sen. Feinstein's Flynn timeline.
It includes Flynn's role in nixing arming the Kurds to retake Raqqa, which would have seriously angered Turkey. This issue hasn't gotten a lot of attention, but it's an enormous conflict of interest given Flynn's business dealings with Turkey, and I'm glad it's mentioned here.
posted by zachlipton at 1:54 PM on May 8, 2017 [21 favorites]
It includes Flynn's role in nixing arming the Kurds to retake Raqqa, which would have seriously angered Turkey. This issue hasn't gotten a lot of attention, but it's an enormous conflict of interest given Flynn's business dealings with Turkey, and I'm glad it's mentioned here.
posted by zachlipton at 1:54 PM on May 8, 2017 [21 favorites]
"Is it just because... Republican...?"
the answer is always yes
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:55 PM on May 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
the answer is always yes
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:55 PM on May 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
Sen. Franken to Clapper: After retiring, have you appeared on Russia Today?
Clapper: No, not wittingly.
Oh snap.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:55 PM on May 8, 2017 [23 favorites]
Clapper: No, not wittingly.
Oh snap.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:55 PM on May 8, 2017 [23 favorites]
Jennifer Rubin is updating her article during the hearing: Sally Yates just threw the White House under the bus
Clapper’s testimony should not be overlooked. His description of the thoroughness and certainty of the intelligence community’s assessment of Russian interference belies President Trump’s bizarre and entirely unjustified efforts to call into question his intelligence community’s findings. The findings and conclusions some four months after the report concluding Russia had interfered in the election to help Trump and hurt Hillary Clinton was issued “still stand,” he said. Clapper stated, “They must be congratulating themselves for having exceeded their wildest expectations. They are now emboldened to continue such activities in the future, both here and around the world, and to do so even more intensely.” He warned, “If there has ever been a clarion call for vigilance and action against a threat to the very foundations of our democratic political system, this episode is it.”posted by zachlipton at 1:57 PM on May 8, 2017 [64 favorites]
Yates’s testimony continues, as do the string of questions surrounding the administration’s bizarre conduct.
Yates is giving a tutorial in committee testifying. She just walloped not one but two GOP senators. Sen. John Cornyn (R-Tex.) tried to accuse her of misconduct in refusing to defend the Trump administration’s travel ban, which was ultimately blocked by multiple courts. Yates reminded him that at her confirmation hearing, Cornyn had asked if she would refuse to carry out an illegal or unconstitutional order. She recalled she had promised him she would indeed refuse. Ouch. Then up came Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) sleazily trying to get her to opine on Huma Abedin’s email habits(!). When that led nowhere, he took to quoting the statutory basis for the travel ban. She corrected him by pointing out that there was subsequent congressional action that specifically prohibited religious discrimination. Moreover, she took the opportunity to drop the news bomb that the administration ordered the Office of Legal Counsel to not even tell the acting attorney general the ban was in the works. Game, set, match.
Franken doing a good job of channeling my incredulity about all of this.
posted by diogenes at 1:58 PM on May 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 1:58 PM on May 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
Lindsay Graham is now the only Republican left in the hearing room (he's the Chairman).
This is a hearing about Russia interfering in our election. Not one Republican who doesn't basically have to be there gives enough of a damn to stay and listen.
posted by zachlipton at 1:59 PM on May 8, 2017 [81 favorites]
This is a hearing about Russia interfering in our election. Not one Republican who doesn't basically have to be there gives enough of a damn to stay and listen.
posted by zachlipton at 1:59 PM on May 8, 2017 [81 favorites]
Franken's straight-up proposing that they held on to Flynn because others in the administration were compromised/colluding.
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:59 PM on May 8, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:59 PM on May 8, 2017 [20 favorites]
Franken: "Is it possible that the reason he (Trump) didn't fire (Flynn) him for talking to the Russians about sanctions, is that he thought what about all the other people on my team who coordinated?"
Franken keeps going down this road and there is dead silence. He asks Yates to comment and there's laughter. She says she's not going to touch that.
posted by winna at 1:59 PM on May 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
Franken keeps going down this road and there is dead silence. He asks Yates to comment and there's laughter. She says she's not going to touch that.
posted by winna at 1:59 PM on May 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
Senator Blumenthal is calling for a special prosecutor.
posted by winna at 2:01 PM on May 8, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by winna at 2:01 PM on May 8, 2017 [22 favorites]
[Palmer] is being used now to argue that the courts shouldn't be looking at discriminatory intent behind the travel ban. It's a disturbing citation that shouldn't go unnoticed.
Soooooo I kinda have to wonder, given the ineptness of this administration, what small proportion of shit like this is career DoJ lawyers signaling through their citations not to take their own case seriously? Like, is it 90\% straight-up evil and 10\% weird resistance? Or 95-5, or 80-20?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:01 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Soooooo I kinda have to wonder, given the ineptness of this administration, what small proportion of shit like this is career DoJ lawyers signaling through their citations not to take their own case seriously? Like, is it 90\% straight-up evil and 10\% weird resistance? Or 95-5, or 80-20?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:01 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Franken doing a good job of channeling my incredulity about all of this.
Franken was grandstanding. And he's a grand grandstander.
And he keeps making Sally Yates chuckle. I interpret her chuckles as meaning "Oh God Senator Franken you know I'm not allowed to publicly agree with you and you know how much I wish I were allowed to publicly agree with you."
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:03 PM on May 8, 2017 [37 favorites]
Franken was grandstanding. And he's a grand grandstander.
And he keeps making Sally Yates chuckle. I interpret her chuckles as meaning "Oh God Senator Franken you know I'm not allowed to publicly agree with you and you know how much I wish I were allowed to publicly agree with you."
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:03 PM on May 8, 2017 [37 favorites]
Senator Blumenthal knows how to ask a question. He goes on the A+ list. He is getting good stuff on the need for a special prosecutor.
posted by prefpara at 2:05 PM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by prefpara at 2:05 PM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
.This is a hearing about Russia interfering in our election. Not one Republican who doesn't basically have to be there gives enough of a damn to stay and listen.
Utterly compromised, the lot of them.
posted by Artw at 2:07 PM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Utterly compromised, the lot of them.
posted by Artw at 2:07 PM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Sen. Blumenthal is desperately trying to get Yates to say there should be a special prosecutor to investigate Flynn. She's not going there, but he keeps trying, asking her if she'll give her opinion as a "private citizen" or even as an "expert witness." She laughs, but won't answer.
posted by zachlipton at 2:07 PM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 2:07 PM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
I think the argument that Sally Yates overruled President Trump's authority by refusing to defend the Executive Order is kinda silly, considering Trump immediately fired her for doing so and replaced her with someone willing to defend the Executive Order. The system works!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:08 PM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:08 PM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
I don't get why Clapper made a point of saying that it wasn't all 17 agencies who concluded that Russia was behind the hacking. The statement from the Office of Homeland Security and the Office of the Director of National Intelligence starts with "The U.S. Intelligence Community (USIC) is confident that the Russian Government..." The USIC is made up of 17 agencies.
posted by diogenes at 2:11 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 2:11 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Meanwhile, it's a really good time to dump news that you don't want people to notice right now. One of those stories: ICE Boss To Take Private Prison Gig. The #2 guy at ICE is leaving to go work for GEO Group, the private prison company, which has contacts with ICE to run immigration detention centers.
How's that swamp looking?
posted by zachlipton at 2:14 PM on May 8, 2017 [44 favorites]
How's that swamp looking?
posted by zachlipton at 2:14 PM on May 8, 2017 [44 favorites]
Graham is asking Clapper if there has ever been a business deal from Trump which gave him concern. Clapper says he can't comment on that BECAUSE IT IMPACTS ON AN INVESTIGATION.
posted by winna at 2:17 PM on May 8, 2017 [72 favorites]
posted by winna at 2:17 PM on May 8, 2017 [72 favorites]
Wait, we're allowed to cook and eat him?
It's all gristle
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:17 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's all gristle
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:17 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hah.
Yates says in response to one question that she can't even confirm or deny whether Flynn was talking to the Russians.
In response to the next question she is asked something like "How did you find out Flynn was talking to the Russians" and she answers that she can't answer that in an open setting.
Hah. Oops.
posted by Justinian at 2:21 PM on May 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
Yates says in response to one question that she can't even confirm or deny whether Flynn was talking to the Russians.
In response to the next question she is asked something like "How did you find out Flynn was talking to the Russians" and she answers that she can't answer that in an open setting.
Hah. Oops.
posted by Justinian at 2:21 PM on May 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
Clapper is damning Spicer and company here by explaining that the security clearance process for being, say, National Security Advisor is much more involved than a TS/SCI clearance or the vetting a retired general would get.
posted by zachlipton at 2:23 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 2:23 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Why are they having a fucking hearing if no one can publicly say anything?
posted by yoga at 2:25 PM on May 8, 2017
posted by yoga at 2:25 PM on May 8, 2017
Does chat work for this?
chat doesn't work at all for me. it doesn't like my username, even escaped.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 2:25 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
chat doesn't work at all for me. it doesn't like my username, even escaped.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 2:25 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Uh. DeVos put out a statement affirming her support for HBCU's despite Trump's signing statement. The second paragraph spells "HBCU" incorrectly; it's "HBCU" and not "HCBU."
posted by zachlipton at 2:26 PM on May 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 2:26 PM on May 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Oh good, we're back to "the real story is who leaked all this", not anything about Russia interfering with our election.
This from "moderate"* Lindsey Graham.
* - why the fuck not, they're all moderates now.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:27 PM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
This from "moderate"* Lindsey Graham.
* - why the fuck not, they're all moderates now.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:27 PM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Sen. Whitehouse (D-RI) brought out a poster, reproduced below. The parentheticals are added by me, and are the conclusions he came to and Clapper agreed with. Finished 7 seconds before his 4 minutes were up.
THE RUSSIAN TOOLBOX IN THE 2016 ELECTION
YES NO ?
Propaganda, Fake News, Trolls, and Bots (YES)
Hacking and Theft of Political Information (YES)
Timed Leaks of Damaging Material (YES)
Assassination and Political Violence (NO)
Investment Control in Key Economic Sectors (NO)
Shady Business/Financial Ties (?)
Corrupting/Compromising Politicians (?)
posted by SpiffyRob at 2:28 PM on May 8, 2017 [22 favorites]
THE RUSSIAN TOOLBOX IN THE 2016 ELECTION
YES NO ?
Propaganda, Fake News, Trolls, and Bots (YES)
Hacking and Theft of Political Information (YES)
Timed Leaks of Damaging Material (YES)
Assassination and Political Violence (NO)
Investment Control in Key Economic Sectors (NO)
Shady Business/Financial Ties (?)
Corrupting/Compromising Politicians (?)
posted by SpiffyRob at 2:28 PM on May 8, 2017 [22 favorites]
IF NOBODY LEAKED THIS SHIT THERE WOULD STILL BE A RUSSIAN OPERATIVE RUNNING OUR GODDAMNED FOREIGN POLICY YOU DUMBFUCKS.
directed at our gop sens. sorry for shouting
posted by localhuman at 2:29 PM on May 8, 2017 [45 favorites]
directed at our gop sens. sorry for shouting
posted by localhuman at 2:29 PM on May 8, 2017 [45 favorites]
I thought that was well done by Whitehouse.
posted by diogenes at 2:30 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by diogenes at 2:30 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Isn't it clear that at least part of the quid pro quo was that Russia interfered in the election in exchange for Trump dropping sanctions?
posted by kirkaracha at 2:32 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 2:32 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
I think Senator Kennedy has claimed the title of dumbest sitting senator.
posted by diogenes at 2:37 PM on May 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 2:37 PM on May 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
I think one important takeaway here is that there are two issues with Flynn. This hearing has focused on the lying, the potential for blackmail as a result, and the White House's failure to take action despite being warned. That's obviously crazy important.
But the other issue is what Yates has called "the underlying conduct," what Flynn actually did. We're talking about the coverup, but coverups come after, you know, a crime. She steadfastly refused to go there and discuss what those crimes may have been, because it's the subject of an investigation and involves classified information, but I think it's reasonable to say that some of the issues involved are presumably Flynn's failure to register as a foreign agent and him lying to the FBI when he was interviewed about this. Both are crimes. If he was colluding with Russia on sanctions, there are obviously a whole host of criminal violations that could be involved, ranging from the Logan Act to, I guess, treason.
This hearing only scratched the surface. What Flynn actually did is at least as important as the coverup, and quite likely far more significant.
posted by zachlipton at 2:37 PM on May 8, 2017 [28 favorites]
But the other issue is what Yates has called "the underlying conduct," what Flynn actually did. We're talking about the coverup, but coverups come after, you know, a crime. She steadfastly refused to go there and discuss what those crimes may have been, because it's the subject of an investigation and involves classified information, but I think it's reasonable to say that some of the issues involved are presumably Flynn's failure to register as a foreign agent and him lying to the FBI when he was interviewed about this. Both are crimes. If he was colluding with Russia on sanctions, there are obviously a whole host of criminal violations that could be involved, ranging from the Logan Act to, I guess, treason.
This hearing only scratched the surface. What Flynn actually did is at least as important as the coverup, and quite likely far more significant.
posted by zachlipton at 2:37 PM on May 8, 2017 [28 favorites]
lying to the FBI when he was interviewed about this
Reading between the lines of the testimony, I'm definitely operation under the assumption that he lied to the FBI.
posted by diogenes at 2:39 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Reading between the lines of the testimony, I'm definitely operation under the assumption that he lied to the FBI.
posted by diogenes at 2:39 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Senator Kennedy R-LA: If IC and FBI knew that Kislyak had spoken with Flynn, how did Flynn get a security clearance? [true]
posted by TWinbrook8 at 2:40 PM on May 8, 2017
posted by TWinbrook8 at 2:40 PM on May 8, 2017
Here's the bit of the transcript where Clapper agrees that "multiple European allies passed on additional information to the United States about contacts between the Trump campaign and Russians."
posted by zachlipton at 2:41 PM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 2:41 PM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
And the biggest question of all is of course, how much Trump knew or directed regarding Flynn's actions. That's why every Republican in this hearing about Russian interference tried to turn it into anything other than about Russia.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:41 PM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:41 PM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94: I'm glad the Republicans are focused on what really matters, which is, who leaked this to the press?
Same as it ever was: Chaffetz asks Justice IG to investigate leaks about Flynn (Politio, Feb, 15, 2017 -- emphasis mine)
zachlipton: Lindsay Graham is now the only Republican left in the hearing room (he's the Chairman).
'Cause one of the Republicans said "it's 5 o'clock, and we still have a shit ton of beer from the AHCA rager, let's pound a few!"
posted by filthy light thief at 2:42 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Same as it ever was: Chaffetz asks Justice IG to investigate leaks about Flynn (Politio, Feb, 15, 2017 -- emphasis mine)
zachlipton: Lindsay Graham is now the only Republican left in the hearing room (he's the Chairman).
'Cause one of the Republicans said "it's 5 o'clock, and we still have a shit ton of beer from the AHCA rager, let's pound a few!"
posted by filthy light thief at 2:42 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
You could grab a random guy off a barstool in DC, and he would be no more obviously out of his depth then Kennedy was.
posted by diogenes at 2:42 PM on May 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 2:42 PM on May 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
zachlipton: The #2 guy at ICE is leaving to go work for GEO Group, the private prison company, which has contacts with ICE to run immigration detention centers.
How's that swamp looking?
Conservative and pristine and white, the way God intended.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:45 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
How's that swamp looking?
Conservative and pristine and white, the way God intended.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:45 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
I don't understand where the R senators were going with the questions about the travel ban EO. Yates can't get any more fired. Whether it was within her authority to refuse is irrelevant to the current legal situation, which isn't even about the same ban. No one's claiming that she broke a law or was trying to cover something up, only that she took a brief stand against a president that was going to replace her anyway. It only makes her look good!
posted by theodolite at 2:51 PM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 2:51 PM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
I don't understand where the R senators were going with the questions about the travel ban EO.
The Trumpers strategy here is to paint her as a partisan hack in order to discredit her testimony.
posted by Justinian at 2:52 PM on May 8, 2017 [22 favorites]
The Trumpers strategy here is to paint her as a partisan hack in order to discredit her testimony.
posted by Justinian at 2:52 PM on May 8, 2017 [22 favorites]
WTF? White House advisors called Ottawa to urge Trudeau to help talk Trump down from scrapping NAFTA
posted by zachlipton at 2:53 PM on May 8, 2017 [70 favorites]
White House staff called the Prime Minister’s Office last month to urge Justin Trudeau to persuade President Donald Trump not to tear up the North American Free Trade Agreement, according to multiple Canadian government sources.This is utter madness.
...
“You never know how much of it is theatre, but it didn’t feel that way,” said one senior Canadian diplomatic source, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly about the matter. “Maybe they’re just learning how to be a government. At least they were open to the conversation, and that stopped them doing something rash and destructive.”
posted by zachlipton at 2:53 PM on May 8, 2017 [70 favorites]
Yeah, they just want to make her look bad so nobody has to believe anything she says.
posted by suelac at 2:54 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by suelac at 2:54 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
I don't understand where the R senators were going with the questions about the travel ban EO.
The same place they were going with Huma Abedin's emails - anywhere that isn't "We Enabled And Are Continuing To Enable Treason".
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:54 PM on May 8, 2017 [22 favorites]
The same place they were going with Huma Abedin's emails - anywhere that isn't "We Enabled And Are Continuing To Enable Treason".
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:54 PM on May 8, 2017 [22 favorites]
cruz/cornryn: "why did you refuse to enforce the immgration EO [that was subsequently knocked down by the courts and withdrawn]"
yates: "are y'all slow?"
posted by murphy slaw at 2:54 PM on May 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
yates: "are y'all slow?"
posted by murphy slaw at 2:54 PM on May 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
The unconventional diplomatic manoeuvre — approaching the head of a foreign government to influence your own boss — proved decisive, as Trump thereafter abandoned his threat to pull out of NAFTA unilaterally, citing the arguments made by Trudeau and Mexican President Enrique Pena Nieto as pivotal.
Why is reality now being authored by Andy Borowitz
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:57 PM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Why is reality now being authored by Andy Borowitz
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:57 PM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Ah yeah that makes sense. I think I was thrown off track by her unflappability and consummate professionalism
posted by theodolite at 2:58 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by theodolite at 2:58 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
diogenes: narrow that to Capitol Hill bars and I'd give solid odds that the only person not more prepared is being loaded into an Uber by the staff.
posted by adamsc at 2:59 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by adamsc at 2:59 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Klobuchar: Are we doing a good enough job on propaganda in educating our citizens?
Clapper: No and also not on counter-messaging.
Klobuchar: What do you recommend?
Clapper: Recommend a USIA on steroids.
I'm open to the idea, but nooo way while Trump is president. It would probably be given to Bannon, Ailes and Alex Jones to run.
posted by jason_steakums at 3:02 PM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Clapper: No and also not on counter-messaging.
Klobuchar: What do you recommend?
Clapper: Recommend a USIA on steroids.
I'm open to the idea, but nooo way while Trump is president. It would probably be given to Bannon, Ailes and Alex Jones to run.
posted by jason_steakums at 3:02 PM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
To be fair for the Republicans, they're just used to these hearing being chances for them to grandstand and photo op while investigating stuff with no factual basis so of course they cynically leave early. I mean, that's all they've investigated for the last few years so they're really not used to investigating actual real misconduct.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:05 PM on May 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:05 PM on May 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
yates: "are y'all slow?"
Oh God, I would love it if she went all Ripley-during-the-hearing-about-the-Nostromo on their asses.
Yates (responding to Graham): We have been here for 3 hours. How many different ways do you want me to tell the same story?
Yates (responding to Cruz): Did IQs just drop sharply while I was away?
Yates (responding to Kennedy): Goddamnit, that's not all! Because if one of those Russian spies gets in here, that will be all, and all of this bullshit you think is so important? You can just kiss all that goodbye!
posted by lord_wolf at 3:07 PM on May 8, 2017 [20 favorites]
Oh God, I would love it if she went all Ripley-during-the-hearing-about-the-Nostromo on their asses.
Yates (responding to Graham): We have been here for 3 hours. How many different ways do you want me to tell the same story?
Yates (responding to Cruz): Did IQs just drop sharply while I was away?
Yates (responding to Kennedy): Goddamnit, that's not all! Because if one of those Russian spies gets in here, that will be all, and all of this bullshit you think is so important? You can just kiss all that goodbye!
posted by lord_wolf at 3:07 PM on May 8, 2017 [20 favorites]
Mother Jones put up their summary of the Yates/Clapper hearing already, for those who weren't following along in real time. Seems very accurate to me.
So this hearing indicated that the Trump White House protected a national security adviser who lied and who could be compromised by Moscow, that Trump can no longer cite Clapper to claim there was no collusion, and that US intelligence had sensitive information on interactions between Trump associates and possible Russian agents as early as late 2015. Still, most of the Republicans on the panel focused on leaks and "unmasking"—not the main issues at hand. They collectively pounded more on Yates for her action regarding the Muslim travel ban than on Moscow for its covert operation to subvert the 2016 election to help Trump.posted by OnceUponATime at 3:17 PM on May 8, 2017 [19 favorites]
Yates/Franken 2020
posted by kirkaracha at 3:28 PM on May 8, 2017 [37 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 3:28 PM on May 8, 2017 [37 favorites]
The bizarre thing about this attempt to brand Yates as some sort of nefarious partisan hack is that, uh, she's been around DoJ for a looong time, serving faithfully under varied leadership, and, as T.D. Strange pointed out, she was initially appointed by a Republican administration and had undergone a promising but not party-powered civil service career since. I don't even know what her personal party affiliation is, but she sure as hell has not, historically, behaved in a particularly partisan way.
posted by jackbishop at 3:51 PM on May 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by jackbishop at 3:51 PM on May 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
So this hearing indicated that the Trump White House protected a national security adviser who lied and who could be compromised by Moscow, that Trump can no longer cite Clapper to claim there was no collusion, and that US intelligence had sensitive information on interactions between Trump associates and possible Russian agents as early as late 2015.
Yep. Or we can take the summary of the hearing from Donald Trump himself: "Sally Yates made the fake media extremely unhappy today --- she said nothing but old news!" If you'd like to live in a completely different universe. He still hasn't explained why he fired Flynn if this is all fake news, but he's tweeting up a storm.
posted by zachlipton at 3:53 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yep. Or we can take the summary of the hearing from Donald Trump himself: "Sally Yates made the fake media extremely unhappy today --- she said nothing but old news!" If you'd like to live in a completely different universe. He still hasn't explained why he fired Flynn if this is all fake news, but he's tweeting up a storm.
posted by zachlipton at 3:53 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
The Mad King's weighing in. A tweet every couple minutes, so probably more to come.
@realDonaldTrump
Director Clapper reiterated what everybody, including the fake media already knows- there is "no evidence" of collusion w/ Russia and Trump.
Sally Yates made the fake media extremely unhappy today --- she said nothing but old news!
The Russia-Trump collusion story is a total hoax, when will this taxpayer funded charade end?
Biggest story today between Clapper & Yates is on surveillance. Why doesn't the media report on this? #FakeNews!
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:54 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump
Director Clapper reiterated what everybody, including the fake media already knows- there is "no evidence" of collusion w/ Russia and Trump.
Sally Yates made the fake media extremely unhappy today --- she said nothing but old news!
The Russia-Trump collusion story is a total hoax, when will this taxpayer funded charade end?
Biggest story today between Clapper & Yates is on surveillance. Why doesn't the media report on this? #FakeNews!
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:54 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
The bizarre thing about this attempt to brand Yates as some sort of nefarious partisan hack...
Sure, it makes no sense, but what other option do they have? Listen to her and take her seriously?
posted by diogenes at 3:55 PM on May 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
Sure, it makes no sense, but what other option do they have? Listen to her and take her seriously?
posted by diogenes at 3:55 PM on May 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
I don't even know what her personal party affiliation is, but she sure as hell has not, historically, behaved in a particularly partisan way.
Basically, if you're not toeing the Republicanliesline, you're obviously a partisan Democrat. Its the only possible explanation.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:56 PM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Basically, if you're not toeing the Republican
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:56 PM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
So far, the folks on my timeline are trying to figure out why Trump used three dashes, which has devolved into a discussion on the em dash and how to make it on an iPhone. Maybe I should follow different people on Twitter.
Anyway, I think this is the timeline now:
Thing happens
Fake news!
Old news!
The real story is this other thing!
posted by zachlipton at 4:00 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Anyway, I think this is the timeline now:
Thing happens
Fake news!
Old news!
The real story is this other thing!
posted by zachlipton at 4:00 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Director Clapper reiterated what everybody, including the fake media already knows- there is "no evidence" of collusion w/ Russia and Trump.
Since Clapper didn't actually say "no evidence," I can only assume that those are scare quotes.
posted by diogenes at 4:01 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Since Clapper didn't actually say "no evidence," I can only assume that those are scare quotes.
posted by diogenes at 4:01 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Someone's gonna have to mop up a lot of orange sweat from the Oval office floor tonight. I'm not-so-secretly hoping that's one of Spicer's jobs.
posted by rocket88 at 4:03 PM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by rocket88 at 4:03 PM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
I always wondered if we would get our own Nixon. These tweets point to yes.
posted by valkane at 4:04 PM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by valkane at 4:04 PM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
The Mad King's weighing in. A tweet every couple minutes, so probably more to come.
Methinks the asshole doth protest too much.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:04 PM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
Methinks the asshole doth protest too much.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:04 PM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
David Corn destroyed the "no evidence" thing in his article before Trump started ranting:
posted by zachlipton at 4:04 PM on May 8, 2017 [25 favorites]
At Monday's hearing, Clapper pulled this rug out from under the White House and its comrades. He noted that it was standard policy for the FBI not to share with him details about ongoing counterintelligence investigations. And he said he had not been aware of the FBI's investigation of contacts between Trump associates and Russia that FBI director James Comey revealed weeks ago at a House intelligence committee hearing. Consequently, when Clapper told Todd that he was not familiar with any evidence of Trump-Russia collusion, he was speaking accurately. But he essentially told the Senate subcommittee that he was not in a position to know for certain. This piece of spin should now be buried. Trump can no longer hide behind this one Clapper statement.Clapper's lack of knowledge is not the same as Clapper saying it didn't happen.
Clapper also dropped another piece of information disquieting for the Trump camp. Last month, the Guardian reported that British intelligence in late 2015 collected intelligence on suspicious interactions between Trump associates and known or suspected Russian agents and passed this information to to the United States "as part of a routine exchange of information." Asked about this report, Clapper said it was "accurate." He added, "The specifics are quite sensitive." This may well have been the first public confirmation from an intelligence community leader that US intelligence agencies have possessed secret information about ties between Trump's circle and Moscow. (Comey testified that the FBI's counterintelligence investigation of links between Trump associates and Russian began in late July 2016.)
posted by zachlipton at 4:04 PM on May 8, 2017 [25 favorites]
If I was Clapper, I would feel the need to clarify that I most definitely didn't say what the President is claiming I said. It's kind of a big deal.
posted by diogenes at 4:06 PM on May 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 4:06 PM on May 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Here's a good discussion between law professors Ryan Coodman and Steve Vladeck, originally from the Just Security blog but republished in Newsweek , on the subject.
That was informative -- thank you for linking! I hadn't realized the Espionage Act was so far-reaching -- and that its potential application in these contexts was still so murky.
Let's go back a bit to your original comment, which I may have misread: "Since Assange is neither American nor in America, this is nonsense."
So are you suggesting here that since Assange is a foreigner living far away, whatever precedents or legal tools that come out of a successful prosecution of Assange under the Espionage Act would not later be used against American journos and press?
That seems awfully charitable to the authorities!
posted by notyou at 4:06 PM on May 8, 2017
That was informative -- thank you for linking! I hadn't realized the Espionage Act was so far-reaching -- and that its potential application in these contexts was still so murky.
Let's go back a bit to your original comment, which I may have misread: "Since Assange is neither American nor in America, this is nonsense."
So are you suggesting here that since Assange is a foreigner living far away, whatever precedents or legal tools that come out of a successful prosecution of Assange under the Espionage Act would not later be used against American journos and press?
That seems awfully charitable to the authorities!
posted by notyou at 4:06 PM on May 8, 2017
re: Assange and the Espionage act. Don't make me break out that quote from A Man For All Seasons! I'll do it goddamit!
posted by Justinian at 4:10 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 4:10 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Basically Trump is arguing that he's in the clear because somebody with no visibility into the investigation into his collusion with Russia said they hadn't seen evidence of of his collusion with Russia. I'm glad we got that cleared up!
posted by diogenes at 4:16 PM on May 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 4:16 PM on May 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Well, to be fair to Trump, the person with insight and visibility into the investigation is James Comey. So. He's probably feeling pretty good right now.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:18 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:18 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
I don't even know what her personal party affiliation is
My God, it's like she's a professional and a proper civil servant. I'm really starting to forget what those are like.
(Sarcasm not directed at jackbishop, but at this stupid timeline we live in.)
posted by CommonSense at 4:32 PM on May 8, 2017 [18 favorites]
My God, it's like she's a professional and a proper civil servant. I'm really starting to forget what those are like.
(Sarcasm not directed at jackbishop, but at this stupid timeline we live in.)
posted by CommonSense at 4:32 PM on May 8, 2017 [18 favorites]
On a more serious note, when are we going to decide once and for all how to pronounce Guccifer?
posted by theodolite at 4:43 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by theodolite at 4:43 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
I've heard Roger Stone pronounce it "Cluecifer" or "Crucifer" on Alex Jones and found it mystifying, but in hindsight maybe it was an ultra-token attempt to avoid self-incrimination?
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:47 PM on May 8, 2017
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:47 PM on May 8, 2017
It's a soft G, like gif
posted by Existential Dread at 4:49 PM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Existential Dread at 4:49 PM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Oh no, I thought it was Goochi-fer.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:55 PM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 4:55 PM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: Ivanka Trump helps women who work in other books
Because Ivanka Trump has made the mistake of writing a book with her tips for success, I have taken the liberty of applying her philosophy to the characters in other stories. I’m glad Trump is here to tell us these things!posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:58 PM on May 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
“The Necklace”: Never borrow expensive jewelry from your friends. Wear your own. This way, instead of working for years and years to replace the costly necklace that she inadvertently lost, Mathilde could have architected a carefree and fun evening out, knowing she looked great. Mathilde should also have moisturized more.
“The Gift of the Magi”: Instead of selling beloved possessions to buy each other gifts that turn out to be worthless (how ironic!), these heroes should have gifted each other a spa weekend. This would have been both practical and relaxing.
Oh look, another analysis that shows it wasn't the economy, stupid.
Economic Anxiety Didn’t Make People Vote Trump, Racism Did
Economic Anxiety Didn’t Make People Vote Trump, Racism Did
In our models, racial attitudes towards blacks and immigration are the key factors associated with support for Trump. The way that these variables impact Trump support can be seen in the charts below. Both racial resentment and black influence animosity are significant predictors of Trump support among white respondents, independent of partisanship, ideology, education levels, and the other factors included in the model. The results indicate a probability of Trump support higher than 60 percent for an otherwise typical white voter who scores at the highest levels on either anti-black racial resentment or anti-black influence animosity. This compares to less than 30 percent chance for a typical white voter with below average scores on either of the two measures anti-black attitudes. There is approximately a 10 percent probability of a Trump vote for an otherwise typical white voter at the lowest levels of racial resentment.posted by chris24 at 5:01 PM on May 8, 2017 [25 favorites]
The effect of immigration attitudes for white people is even stronger than anti-black attitudes. The results predict an approximately 80 percent probability of voting for Trump for an otherwise average white person with the most anti-immigrant attitudes, compared to less than 20 percent for a white person with the most pro-immigrant attitudes. To put these results in context, the magnitude of the effects of each of the three variables—racial resentment, black influence animosity, and immigration attitudes—is comparable to the effect of partisan identification. The change in probability of a Trump vote for a white person with the highest to the lowest levels of racial animus is similar to changing their party identification from Republican to Democratic.
Our results also indicate that economic peril was not a significant predictor of voting for Trump once either racial attitudes or immigration attitudes are included in the models. As shown in the chart below, Trump vote probability for an average white person does not change regardless of whether they express high or low levels of economic insecurity.
1. Jucifer is a pretty great metal band and you should totally see them next time they come through.
2. It is obviously pronounced Goochee-fur. How is that not obvious?
posted by aspersioncast at 5:03 PM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
2. It is obviously pronounced Goochee-fur. How is that not obvious?
posted by aspersioncast at 5:03 PM on May 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
"The Grapes of Wrath": Don't pile into a jalopy and head west into an uncertain future. Buy a nice townhouse and decorate it in a way that pleases you.
posted by diogenes at 5:06 PM on May 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 5:06 PM on May 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
NYT: For Guccifer, Hacking Was Easy. Prison Is Hard.
posted by cybertaur1 at 5:08 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Guccifer (pronounced GUCCI-fer) — a nom de guerre coined, he said, to combine “the style of Gucci and the light of Lucifer”Now, there's an argument to be made that perhaps Guccifer 2.0 chooses to pronounce their (consensus is that it's the front for a group, right?) name differently. I personally would not make that argument, but it is at least conceivable.
posted by cybertaur1 at 5:08 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
See, the NYT fucked up explaining it, both because a ton of people don't actually know how to pronounce doubled-up Italian consonants and also because of so many other reasons.
posted by aspersioncast at 5:13 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by aspersioncast at 5:13 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
CLAP ON, CLAP OFF, THE CLAPPER
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 5:13 PM on May 8, 2017
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 5:13 PM on May 8, 2017
Hooray! The Jucifer derail I've always wanted! Thanks aspersioncast!
posted by Cookiebastard at 5:20 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Cookiebastard at 5:20 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
less than 20 percent for a white person with the most pro-immigrant attitudes
HOW IS THIS NUMBER NOT ZERO
ARE YOU EVEN PAYING ATTENTION
posted by uncleozzy at 5:23 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
HOW IS THIS NUMBER NOT ZERO
ARE YOU EVEN PAYING ATTENTION
posted by uncleozzy at 5:23 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
i'm afraid to look up the footage of yates owning ted cruz on youtube because there may be a Ted Cruz Gets Owned playlist and i may never escape
posted by murphy slaw at 5:25 PM on May 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 5:25 PM on May 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
This thread has ~3,300 comments. It is time for it to be placed on a plate of beans, scanned with a cat, and sent to live at Slack with Matthowie.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:29 PM on May 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 5:29 PM on May 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
sent to live at Slack with Matthowie.
Wait wait wait wait. So my parents were lying when they said my first FPP wasn't deleted?
I think I need a moment.
posted by Talez at 5:50 PM on May 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
Wait wait wait wait. So my parents were lying when they said my first FPP wasn't deleted?
I think I need a moment.
posted by Talez at 5:50 PM on May 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
Trump call for Muslim ban deleted from site after reporter's question
President Trump’s campaign appears to have scrubbed the 2015 press release calling for a halt on Muslim immigration to the United States following a reporter’s question on Monday — as well as all its other campaign statements.posted by Room 641-A at 5:52 PM on May 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
“Minutes after we asked the WH why the President's campaign website still calls for a Muslim ban, it appears the statement was deleted,” ABC News’s Cecilia Vega wrote on Twitter.
Rep. Blum walks out of his interview, while surrounded by children. It's not a good look.
He's doing a town hall in Iowa now, and is apparently getting "pummeled" on the AHCA.
posted by zachlipton at 5:58 PM on May 8, 2017 [34 favorites]
He's doing a town hall in Iowa now, and is apparently getting "pummeled" on the AHCA.
posted by zachlipton at 5:58 PM on May 8, 2017 [34 favorites]
It’s not a good look.
No, it’s an amazing look. AMAAAAAAAAAAAAAZING.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:05 PM on May 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
No, it’s an amazing look. AMAAAAAAAAAAAAAZING.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:05 PM on May 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
Rep. Blum walks out of his interview, while surrounded by children. It's not a good look.The background for that is that he's having a bunch of town halls this week, his first since taking office in 2014. He's put in place incredibly stringent checks to make sure that only people from in his district go. You have to register several days in advance, so his staff can check that you actually live in the district, and then when you show up you have to bring ID to confirm your identity and address. So it occurred to people to ask whether he has equally stringent requirements about the people who donate to his campaign, which of course he doesn't. That was the question that made him storm out of the interview. It was also apparently the first question he got asked at the town hall, but by then he'd come up with an answer. He sort of famously has a temper, and people are wondering whether he'll be able to get through all three town halls without flying off the handle.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:06 PM on May 8, 2017 [48 favorites]
And it makes me want to see more congress people, of all stripes, get asked that question, just to see what they do.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:07 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 6:07 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Dan Diamond (Politico healthcare reporter) is livetweeting Rep. Blum's townhall if you'd like to follow along.
posted by zachlipton at 6:08 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 6:08 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
So Trump added his "no evidence" tweet about Clapper to his profile pic. Somebody really needs to ask Clapper on camera if that's what he said.
posted by diogenes at 6:12 PM on May 8, 2017
posted by diogenes at 6:12 PM on May 8, 2017
We might have to stop chanting "You work for us", since clearly they don't. But "We can fire you" is still punchy.
posted by puddledork at 6:13 PM on May 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by puddledork at 6:13 PM on May 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
If you wondered why "the first 100 days" are a thing, this shit excuse for a Congress is already starting to press up against the legislative calendar. The Senate is hopefully going to take their time on a healthcare bill that will face the same terrible optics and opposition as the House bill, which they need to offset their (other) massive tax cut for the rich, and there's 39 legislative days before August. Then they'll immediately be faced with funding the government again for 2018 by Sept 30th. Directly after that they'll be gone for 2 months over the holidays, and after that it'll already be 2018 election season with primaries starting in March, and historically less and less has been done during each passing election season which only get longer.
Really they've already wasted a ton of time that could've been spent passing their agenda, including the bulk of the best window of the entire first term if Democrats can win the House back and shut down everything from 2018 on.
Not to say they can't still do damage. But resistance is working to a better degree than most of us thought possible on November 9th, and we can keep it up.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:26 PM on May 8, 2017 [50 favorites]
Really they've already wasted a ton of time that could've been spent passing their agenda, including the bulk of the best window of the entire first term if Democrats can win the House back and shut down everything from 2018 on.
Not to say they can't still do damage. But resistance is working to a better degree than most of us thought possible on November 9th, and we can keep it up.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:26 PM on May 8, 2017 [50 favorites]
Jennifer Epstein (and many gobsmacked others): This is the header of the president of the United States' political/personal Twitter account
SwiftOnSecurity: Jesus fuck did you use mspaint for that and You can tell an art student didn't make it because art students fucking love changing layer opacity.
(Links because still a librarian; no need to visit Twitter unless your retinas are insured to the hilt.)
posted by maudlin at 6:30 PM on May 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
SwiftOnSecurity: Jesus fuck did you use mspaint for that and You can tell an art student didn't make it because art students fucking love changing layer opacity.
(Links because still a librarian; no need to visit Twitter unless your retinas are insured to the hilt.)
posted by maudlin at 6:30 PM on May 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
China pitch by Kushner sister renews controversy over visa program for wealthy
The Kushner Project Touted in China Is in Trouble at Home
When Jared Kushner’s sister took the stage in two Chinese ballrooms over the weekend [...] she mentioned her brother’s role in the White House and displayed a photo of President Donald Trump.
What she didn’t mention was that the project has suffered a slew of problems: the exit of its anchor tenant, the loss of millions in tax breaks and a curdling political relationship with the mayor of its host city.
The previously unreported exit by tenant WeWork -- which is also expected to sell its stake in the project -- as well as the mayor’s shift, add up to a sharp reversal of fortunes that led the family company to do what it has done before: seek Chinese investors.
SAD. lololol
posted by futz at 6:31 PM on May 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
The Kushner Project Touted in China Is in Trouble at Home
When Jared Kushner’s sister took the stage in two Chinese ballrooms over the weekend [...] she mentioned her brother’s role in the White House and displayed a photo of President Donald Trump.
What she didn’t mention was that the project has suffered a slew of problems: the exit of its anchor tenant, the loss of millions in tax breaks and a curdling political relationship with the mayor of its host city.
The previously unreported exit by tenant WeWork -- which is also expected to sell its stake in the project -- as well as the mayor’s shift, add up to a sharp reversal of fortunes that led the family company to do what it has done before: seek Chinese investors.
SAD. lololol
posted by futz at 6:31 PM on May 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
Phoenix-area congressman hosting health-care town hall in Tucson
So our Republican representative, Martha McSally, isn't hosting a town hall over the recess, but a Phoenix-based congressman will be hosting a town hall about the AHCA here in her district. The article says several Democrats are doing the same thing in other Republican-represented districts. Is there a list of who/where somewhere? I'm interested in seeing how this works out as a strategy. (I tried searching the thread to see if this has been discussed yet--is there a term for this cross-district town-hall-ing?)
posted by mixedmetaphors at 6:32 PM on May 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
So our Republican representative, Martha McSally, isn't hosting a town hall over the recess, but a Phoenix-based congressman will be hosting a town hall about the AHCA here in her district. The article says several Democrats are doing the same thing in other Republican-represented districts. Is there a list of who/where somewhere? I'm interested in seeing how this works out as a strategy. (I tried searching the thread to see if this has been discussed yet--is there a term for this cross-district town-hall-ing?)
posted by mixedmetaphors at 6:32 PM on May 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
The results indicate a probability of Trump support higher than 60 percent for an otherwise typical white voter who scores at the highest levels on either anti-black racial resentment or anti-black influence animosity.
This is really what broke my heart the most about my parents. My four year old crush was my dad's old police partner, a black man. My mom refused to bring me to my paternal grandparents' house until my racist Pa stopped saying the n-word around me. My sister's oldest granddaughter is black.
But holy shit, my parents are racist as fuck. Like, not in a "all white people are racist" way but horribly, openly racist in a way that is not congruent with my upbringing. They think Obama stirred up black and Islamic violence. They think BLM is a terrorist group. My mom (who has been leaning Republican for a while now) is more open to listening to me. but my dad (who was always super liberal) will forgive Trump anything simply because he's not Hillary Clinton.
Sigh. Baruch atah Adonai, Eloheinu melech haolam, borei p'ri hagafen. The fruit of the vine is keeping me sane and killing my liver during these interesting times.
posted by Ruki at 6:33 PM on May 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
This is really what broke my heart the most about my parents. My four year old crush was my dad's old police partner, a black man. My mom refused to bring me to my paternal grandparents' house until my racist Pa stopped saying the n-word around me. My sister's oldest granddaughter is black.
But holy shit, my parents are racist as fuck. Like, not in a "all white people are racist" way but horribly, openly racist in a way that is not congruent with my upbringing. They think Obama stirred up black and Islamic violence. They think BLM is a terrorist group. My mom (who has been leaning Republican for a while now) is more open to listening to me. but my dad (who was always super liberal) will forgive Trump anything simply because he's not Hillary Clinton.
Sigh. Baruch atah Adonai, Eloheinu melech haolam, borei p'ri hagafen. The fruit of the vine is keeping me sane and killing my liver during these interesting times.
posted by Ruki at 6:33 PM on May 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
From the story above (Phoenix-area congressman hosting health-care town hall in Tucson.):
"While McSally has been invited, spokeswoman Kelly Schibi said she is not expected to attend.
“It is a shame that Representative Gallego is choosing to hold political rallies outside of his district, instead of spending his time serving the constituents in his own congressional district in Phoenix,” she added."
Ruben Gallego is my congressman. He absolutely has my blessing to head down to Tucson and talk to the people there. Help them see what a real representative who cares about the people he represents is like.
posted by Weeping_angel at 6:37 PM on May 8, 2017 [23 favorites]
"While McSally has been invited, spokeswoman Kelly Schibi said she is not expected to attend.
“It is a shame that Representative Gallego is choosing to hold political rallies outside of his district, instead of spending his time serving the constituents in his own congressional district in Phoenix,” she added."
Ruben Gallego is my congressman. He absolutely has my blessing to head down to Tucson and talk to the people there. Help them see what a real representative who cares about the people he represents is like.
posted by Weeping_angel at 6:37 PM on May 8, 2017 [23 favorites]
It's bad enough that Trump photoshopped a tweet onto a banner picture (I mean, why?), but the tweet is a claim that the former Director of National Intelligence said something that he categorically did not say.
posted by diogenes at 6:39 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 6:39 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
The article says several Democrats are doing the same thing in other Republican-represented districts. Is there a list of who/where somewhere?
This is something Rep. Patrick Maloney has been pushing (discussed upthread), though I don't think it has an official name. The Town Hall Project is a crowdsourced list of all such events, including empty chair town halls, but it doesn't break out reps having town halls in other people's districts.
posted by zachlipton at 6:39 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
This is something Rep. Patrick Maloney has been pushing (discussed upthread), though I don't think it has an official name. The Town Hall Project is a crowdsourced list of all such events, including empty chair town halls, but it doesn't break out reps having town halls in other people's districts.
posted by zachlipton at 6:39 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
#adoptadistrict on Twitter for Dems holding town halls in neighboring Repub districts.
posted by hilaryjade at 6:42 PM on May 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by hilaryjade at 6:42 PM on May 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
One more tidbit and it is not at all shady (yeah, right) given all the problems Kushner Cos. are having. Methinks Sister Kushner is not telling the truth to potential investors.
Oddly, the version Meyer promoted in China is bigger, grander and more than twice as expensive as plans pitched to the New Jersey Economic Development Authority in November 2015. It will cost nearly $1 billion, including $150 million from Chinese investors, $301 million in owner equity and $525 million in debt, according to a pitchbook for an upcoming meeting in Guangzhou. It will have more than double the 744 apartments originally proposed to New Jersey.
posted by futz at 6:43 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oddly, the version Meyer promoted in China is bigger, grander and more than twice as expensive as plans pitched to the New Jersey Economic Development Authority in November 2015. It will cost nearly $1 billion, including $150 million from Chinese investors, $301 million in owner equity and $525 million in debt, according to a pitchbook for an upcoming meeting in Guangzhou. It will have more than double the 744 apartments originally proposed to New Jersey.
posted by futz at 6:43 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Here's Maloney discussing the idea and the AHCA on Maddow last Friday. I love this guy.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:44 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:44 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Now that we know definitively that the President of the United States appointed a foreign agent to a position in which he would have access to literally all government secrets, and kept him in this position for weeks after being "informed", I'm glad the Republicans are focused on what really matters, which is, who leaked this to the press?
And the best possible defense Trump's apologists could have for this situation is sheer, simple incompetence.
posted by Gelatin at 6:44 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
And the best possible defense Trump's apologists could have for this situation is sheer, simple incompetence.
posted by Gelatin at 6:44 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
My weirdness barometer is broken, but today was a little weirder than most, right?
posted by diogenes at 6:46 PM on May 8, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 6:46 PM on May 8, 2017 [23 favorites]
So let me get this straight. The guy Trump thinks exonerates him on collusion, to the extent that he's put it in his damn Twitter header:
- Testified that he didn't know about the counterintelligence investigation until Comey revealed it in March, thus demonstrating that he lacks the knowledge to exonerate anybody; and
- Agreed in his testimony that "multiple European allies passed on additional information to the United States about contacts between the Trump campaign and the Russians."
Clapper did not exactly do Trump the favor that Trump thinks he did here.
posted by zachlipton at 6:49 PM on May 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
- Testified that he didn't know about the counterintelligence investigation until Comey revealed it in March, thus demonstrating that he lacks the knowledge to exonerate anybody; and
- Agreed in his testimony that "multiple European allies passed on additional information to the United States about contacts between the Trump campaign and the Russians."
Clapper did not exactly do Trump the favor that Trump thinks he did here.
posted by zachlipton at 6:49 PM on May 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
Rep. Blum walks out of his interview, while surrounded by children. It's not a good look.
Brave Sir Robin Ran Away
posted by BlueDuke at 6:53 PM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Brave Sir Robin Ran Away
posted by BlueDuke at 6:53 PM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Weeping_angel: Ruben Gallego is my congressman. He absolutely has my blessing to head down to Tucson and talk to the people there. Help them see what a real representative who cares about the people he represents is like.
Ruben is also my Congressman, and I would be happy to loan him out to any congressional district in the country who wants to see firsthand a firebrand Democrat who is passionate about fighting for people of all backgrounds.
posted by Superplin at 7:11 PM on May 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
Ruben is also my Congressman, and I would be happy to loan him out to any congressional district in the country who wants to see firsthand a firebrand Democrat who is passionate about fighting for people of all backgrounds.
posted by Superplin at 7:11 PM on May 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
Betty Cracker
56m
Replying to @jeneps
"No evidence of collusion" = "I am not a crook."
No more calls, please, we have a winner!
posted by petebest at 7:11 PM on May 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
56m
Replying to @jeneps
"No evidence of collusion" = "I am not a crook."
No more calls, please, we have a winner!
posted by petebest at 7:11 PM on May 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
Ruben Gallego is my congressman. He absolutely has my blessing to head down to Tucson and talk to the people there. Help them see what a real representative who cares about the people he represents is like.
Thank you Weeping_angel and Superplin for sharing him! I'm hoping to make it to the town hall tomorrow.
And thanks, everyone, for the info about Maloney and these #adoptadistrict town halls. I'm supportive of continuing to find new ways to remind Republicans representatives in these districts that their constituents are unsatisfied & feeling distinctly unrepresented. And reminding them, too, that the local Democrats are networking and are willing to fulfill civic duties when their neighbors are not.
posted by mixedmetaphors at 7:23 PM on May 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Thank you Weeping_angel and Superplin for sharing him! I'm hoping to make it to the town hall tomorrow.
And thanks, everyone, for the info about Maloney and these #adoptadistrict town halls. I'm supportive of continuing to find new ways to remind Republicans representatives in these districts that their constituents are unsatisfied & feeling distinctly unrepresented. And reminding them, too, that the local Democrats are networking and are willing to fulfill civic duties when their neighbors are not.
posted by mixedmetaphors at 7:23 PM on May 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Eugen Robinson, writing in the WaPo: Republicans are accidentally paving the way for single-payer
But President Trump and the GOP majorities in Congress now own the health-care issue, and if they don’t stop trying to sabotage the ACA and instead try to make it work, voters will be angry. And if the Senate does go along with the House, I believe many Democrats will run in the 2018 midterms — and win — on Sen. Bernie Sanders’s pledge of “Medicare for all.”posted by zakur at 7:46 PM on May 8, 2017 [18 favorites]
With their anti-Obamacare fanaticism, Republicans are putting single-payer on the table. Thanks, GOP.
ELECTIONS NEWS
** GA-06
** GA-06
-- Handel appears to be trying to get out of debating Ossoff.** AHCA
-- Handel blasts extension of voter registration. [EDITORIAL: This seems like a really dumb move on Handel's part.]
-- YouGov poll:** SC-05Favor 31 (STRONGLY Favor - 8)
Oppose 48 (STRONGLY Oppose - 34)
Unsure 25
WaPo look at the race. Parnell opposes AHCA, Pope and Norman not talking.** 2020 Watch
-- Is Kasich looking to primary Trump?** Other elections
-- Klobuchar hanging out in Iowa.
-- 538 looks at the early Dem field.
-- Interesting developments in Columbus, where it looks like the Working Families Party is trying to make a stealth run at several offices.posted by Chrysostom at 7:47 PM on May 8, 2017 [25 favorites]
-- LAT article on resurgent activism pulling state legislators left.
So insurance premiums will be rising going into an election year where Republicans have the White House and both houses of Congress? Good plan!
posted by kirkaracha at 7:57 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 7:57 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Peter Elkind at ProPublica: “Comey’s Testimony on Huma Abedin Forwarding Emails Was Inaccurate”
FBI director James Comey generated national headlines last week with his dramatic testimony to the Senate Judiciary Committee, explaining his “incredibly painful” decision to go public about the Hillary Clinton emails found on Anthony Weiner’s laptop.posted by Going To Maine at 7:57 PM on May 8, 2017 [21 favorites]
…
FBI officials have privately acknowledged that Comey misstated what Abedin did and what the FBI investigators found. On Monday, the FBI was said to be preparing to correct the record by sending a letter to Congress later this week. But that plan now appears on hold, with the bureau undecided about what to do.
Stick a D next to its name and I'm gonna vote for it in 2020. If Giant Meteor were to switch parties I might even be convinced that armageddon is what we need to cleanse the Trump stain.
posted by Justinian at 7:57 PM on May 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 7:57 PM on May 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
(Man, ProPublica is a fine institution.)
posted by Going To Maine at 7:58 PM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 7:58 PM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Franken/Klobuchar: Hot Dish For America!
Yes, yes, one of them would have to change state residency.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:00 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yes, yes, one of them would have to change state residency.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:00 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Wait. Comey said something to Congress that turns out to have been inaccurate? And he's not immediately rushing to provide an update despite whether he knows any of the facts or has any information or someone's reputation might be impacted?
You know, I'm starting to suspect this Comey guy might not be on the level here.
posted by zachlipton at 8:03 PM on May 8, 2017 [38 favorites]
You know, I'm starting to suspect this Comey guy might not be on the level here.
posted by zachlipton at 8:03 PM on May 8, 2017 [38 favorites]
This thread has ~3,300 comments. It is time for it to be placed on a plate of beans, scanned with a cat, and sent to live at Slack with Matthowie.
Pretty sure it was Math Owie or my life has been a lie.
posted by srboisvert at 8:03 PM on May 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
Pretty sure it was Math Owie or my life has been a lie.
posted by srboisvert at 8:03 PM on May 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
So are you suggesting here that since Assange is a foreigner living far away, whatever precedents or legal tools that come out of a successful prosecution of Assange under the Espionage Act would not later be used against American journos and press?
I don't think you need to be worried about a precedent. In the unlikely event that Trump managed to convince Ecuador to toss Assange out, he would never reach trial. His lifespan would be measured in hours.
I wonder though if he's smart enough to realize that, or if he thinks he's untouchable?
posted by happyroach at 8:19 PM on May 8, 2017
I don't think you need to be worried about a precedent. In the unlikely event that Trump managed to convince Ecuador to toss Assange out, he would never reach trial. His lifespan would be measured in hours.
I wonder though if he's smart enough to realize that, or if he thinks he's untouchable?
posted by happyroach at 8:19 PM on May 8, 2017
This is a new one for me.
Trump Is Going to Lose It When He Finds Out About This Obscure Senate Rule
Today, as expected, Donald Trump rolled out a batch of ten lower federal court appointments [...] And it’s clear the new batch is pleasing to the very conservative judicial activists who will be fighting for rapid Senate confirmation of these and other judges..
...the main obstacle to this and other steps toward remaking the federal judiciary is an obscure but very important Senate practice called the “blue slip.” [pdf] It’s basically a tradition (honored to varying degrees in the past) whereby the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee refuses to move a nominee for the judiciary (or for a U.S. attorney or U.S. marshal position) unless her or his home-state senators agree to it by returning a blue piece of paper signaling assent. It obviously gives senators individually and collectively great leverage over a president’s judicial nominees — especially an opposite-party president’s nominees. And it is sometimes used less as a senatorial veto than as a negotiating tool by senators who want influence over the selection of judges.
The Republicans would for sure use this 'rule', not sure that the Dems have the spine to try or insist. Interesting history to read about though. Looks like it goes back to 1917.
posted by futz at 8:28 PM on May 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
Trump Is Going to Lose It When He Finds Out About This Obscure Senate Rule
Today, as expected, Donald Trump rolled out a batch of ten lower federal court appointments [...] And it’s clear the new batch is pleasing to the very conservative judicial activists who will be fighting for rapid Senate confirmation of these and other judges..
...the main obstacle to this and other steps toward remaking the federal judiciary is an obscure but very important Senate practice called the “blue slip.” [pdf] It’s basically a tradition (honored to varying degrees in the past) whereby the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee refuses to move a nominee for the judiciary (or for a U.S. attorney or U.S. marshal position) unless her or his home-state senators agree to it by returning a blue piece of paper signaling assent. It obviously gives senators individually and collectively great leverage over a president’s judicial nominees — especially an opposite-party president’s nominees. And it is sometimes used less as a senatorial veto than as a negotiating tool by senators who want influence over the selection of judges.
The Republicans would for sure use this 'rule', not sure that the Dems have the spine to try or insist. Interesting history to read about though. Looks like it goes back to 1917.
posted by futz at 8:28 PM on May 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
My weirdness barometer is broken, but today was a little weirder than most, right?
Nobody can tell anymore. Nobody can tell.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:32 PM on May 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
Nobody can tell anymore. Nobody can tell.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:32 PM on May 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
I'll cook up a new thread tonight so we have a shiny clean one to ruin tomorrow.
posted by zachlipton at 8:47 PM on May 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 8:47 PM on May 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
It’s basically a tradition (honored to varying degrees in the past) whereby the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee refuses to move a nominee for the judiciary (or for a U.S. attorney or U.S. marshal position) unless her or his home-state senators agree to it by returning a blue piece of paper signaling assent.
So, just another social contract to break. Republicans will get over themselves, Trump will get his way, then Trump will try to make his opponents look bad, rinse and repeat.
There hasn't been a convention or tradition that he hasn't simply walked past confidently, kind of like he's always taking cuts in the guest-list line of this disco we call Earth. Back at Studio 54 he was probably the guy who would walk up to Nicky Siano in the middle of his set and ask, "Hey, can I play a record? Just one. I've never done it before and everybody's having such a good time, I wanted to see what it's like."
posted by rhizome at 8:55 PM on May 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
So, just another social contract to break. Republicans will get over themselves, Trump will get his way, then Trump will try to make his opponents look bad, rinse and repeat.
There hasn't been a convention or tradition that he hasn't simply walked past confidently, kind of like he's always taking cuts in the guest-list line of this disco we call Earth. Back at Studio 54 he was probably the guy who would walk up to Nicky Siano in the middle of his set and ask, "Hey, can I play a record? Just one. I've never done it before and everybody's having such a good time, I wanted to see what it's like."
posted by rhizome at 8:55 PM on May 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
PS People actually do walk up to DJs and ask stuff like that.
posted by rhizome at 9:01 PM on May 8, 2017
posted by rhizome at 9:01 PM on May 8, 2017
This thread has ~3,300 comments. It is time for it to be placed on a plate of beans, scanned with a cat, and sent to live at Slack with Matthowie.
For threads over 3000 comments we actually build an entire pyramid of beans and entomb the thread inside in a scanner-shaped professional alabaster sarcophagus wearing a golden funerary fedora, with 3000 tiny statues of cats and a dozen mummified ponies to serve it in the afterlife.
Unfortunately, the MeFite who posted the thread has to be sealed inside too. Sorry, martin q blank.
posted by XMLicious at 9:11 PM on May 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
So, just another social contract to break. Republicans will get over themselves, Trump will get his way, then Trump will try to make his opponents look bad, rinse and repeat.
Two notes:
Two notes:
- It isn’t Trump breaking a tradition here - it’s Senate Republicans. There’s a distinction there, since one of those groups has experience with politics and the other does not.
- It isn’t clear that this is a tradition that should linger, much in the same way that the utility of the filibuster has become debatable as well. This isn’t zero-sum; to get rid of the tradition appears to move more power from the states to the Congress and the President, and I would imagine there are arguments to be made both for and against that. Sometimes, the story isn’t just about the current administration and is instead about the broader effects, and I’d need a different article to discuss those.
cjelli, the words that leapt out at me in your bolded comment by Handel is "their" and "our"
posted by wallabear at 9:25 PM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by wallabear at 9:25 PM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
A Nicky Siano reference was what this thread needed before it died, thanks rhizome. Bless.
posted by wemayfreeze at 9:26 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by wemayfreeze at 9:26 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
I used to think that maybe I'd pitch in and start one of these threads, but the thought of putting together enough links to make a proper post just fills me with a numb bone-weary depression. My hat is off to those of you who can somehow work through it to keep us going
In one of the related MeTas I said I'd be fine if the threads were just "New 45 Post" but I got the impression I'm was in the minority.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:28 PM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
In one of the related MeTas I said I'd be fine if the threads were just "New 45 Post" but I got the impression I'm was in the minority.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:28 PM on May 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
The new thread could just be like "Donald Trump: Worst Trump?"
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:34 PM on May 8, 2017
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:34 PM on May 8, 2017
I'm saying Assange would not have the defenses of being a) an American citizen b) working for an American news outlet
On a), he absolutely would. On b), according to your link, that's irrelevant, because the law, apparently, makes no distinction between press and spies, although that has not been tested (Nixon threatened to go after the Pentagon papers dude, but backed off and the court said enjoining the WaPo from printing would violate the First, although they could be pursued after the fact).
posted by notyou at 9:34 PM on May 8, 2017
On a), he absolutely would. On b), according to your link, that's irrelevant, because the law, apparently, makes no distinction between press and spies, although that has not been tested (Nixon threatened to go after the Pentagon papers dude, but backed off and the court said enjoining the WaPo from printing would violate the First, although they could be pursued after the fact).
posted by notyou at 9:34 PM on May 8, 2017
I'm this close to deleting everything I've written and just doing the dildo thing as suggested by Two unicycles and some duct tape. The more of the news you put in one place, the more depressing it is.
posted by zachlipton at 9:35 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 9:35 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
The new thread could just be like “Donald Trump: Worst Trump?”
they’re all bad trumps, ruy.
posted by Going To Maine at 9:36 PM on May 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
they’re all bad trumps, ruy.
posted by Going To Maine at 9:36 PM on May 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
As much as I would like to see obstacles placed in the path of Trump's reaping the judicial branch windfall that Republican obstruction has spent years banking up, the "rule" described is an awful one which probably should die. If you disagree, try to imagine Jeff Sessions, during his Senate years, using such a rule to effectively block over any nominee of color from Alabama (not much a of stretch at all given what we've learned of his past behavior.)
posted by Nerd of the North at 9:38 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Nerd of the North at 9:38 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
I thought the Yates hearing could have been its own thread.
It isn’t Trump breaking a tradition here - it’s Senate Republicans.
On Trump's urging. Yeah, they hold the blue tickets or whatever, but Trump is just going to appoint or nominate whoever, then start talking shit immediately until he gets his way. He's like LBJ in reverse, giving people The Tnemtaert.
posted by rhizome at 9:39 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
It isn’t Trump breaking a tradition here - it’s Senate Republicans.
On Trump's urging. Yeah, they hold the blue tickets or whatever, but Trump is just going to appoint or nominate whoever, then start talking shit immediately until he gets his way. He's like LBJ in reverse, giving people The Tnemtaert.
posted by rhizome at 9:39 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
it's a weird world where you can call george will a "moderate" but the overton window has shifted far enough that i'll grant it in this case
I take your point about sexual assault justiification, but in Republican circles, George Will has always been a moderate. He was not for example a Reaganite. A conservative commentator is someone like Roger Stone or Pat Buchanan after he stopped running; openly racist and authoritarian. Usually they weren't even in newspapers, but more extreme magazines.
Some of it might be just the class signals of the way he dresses up, but I've been a political junkie since the 1970s and he has always been considered a Republican moderate.
posted by msalt at 9:39 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
I take your point about sexual assault justiification, but in Republican circles, George Will has always been a moderate. He was not for example a Reaganite. A conservative commentator is someone like Roger Stone or Pat Buchanan after he stopped running; openly racist and authoritarian. Usually they weren't even in newspapers, but more extreme magazines.
Some of it might be just the class signals of the way he dresses up, but I've been a political junkie since the 1970s and he has always been considered a Republican moderate.
posted by msalt at 9:39 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oh Martha Stewart, I have never liked you very much but I am down with like this even if it is a manufactured statement.
This Photo of Martha Stewart Giving the Finger to a Donald Trump Portrait Is Everything
Stewart standing between giant Snoop Dog & trump portraits throwing a peace sign at one and the middle finger at the other. Me likes. Of course Martha and Snoop are the newest version of the Oddballs à la the 2010's.
posted by futz at 9:42 PM on May 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
This Photo of Martha Stewart Giving the Finger to a Donald Trump Portrait Is Everything
Stewart standing between giant Snoop Dog & trump portraits throwing a peace sign at one and the middle finger at the other. Me likes. Of course Martha and Snoop are the newest version of the Oddballs à la the 2010's.
posted by futz at 9:42 PM on May 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
Hey. I have one coming.
posted by zachlipton at 9:53 PM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 9:53 PM on May 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Sorry, notyou -- new catch-all posts don't need to be comprehensive/multi-link, but we need them to be at least meet the bar of being actual Mefi posts.
posted by LobsterMitten at 9:53 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten at 9:53 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
notyou, I appreciate the spirit. Thanks!
posted by wallabear at 10:00 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by wallabear at 10:00 PM on May 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Just discovering the floor. Next time I'll add two more links to newsier sources so we have the latest.
posted by notyou at 10:03 PM on May 8, 2017
posted by notyou at 10:03 PM on May 8, 2017
I just read through the highlights of the Yates hearing and have been stewing over it for a bit now. Aside from all the other garbage spewing out of the GOP gasbags, there was a part that really, REALLY ticked me off.
That was the snarky GOP question "Who made you a Supreme Court Justice?" when criticizing Yates for not defending Trump's Muslim ban. (Hell, two Federal Judges have since agreed with Yates' instincts on whether the ban was possibly unlawful.)
The GOP Senators' implication is that, unless you are a SCOTUS Justice, you are not allowed to exercise judgment about whether a superior is giving an unlawful order. That, essentially, you must "just follow orders" because they are your superior, even if you feel the order is unlawful.
It is not only our law and custom to question unlawful orders, but also members of the Executive explicitly pledge an oath of loyalty to uphold and defend our laws (specifically, the Constitution), not to blindly obey their superiors. Which means that they are tasked with making such judgment calls as the bedrock of their power to act at all.
I get that it's mainly political positioning for these GOP Senators. But seriously, these assholes embrace authoritarianism WAY too easily, I swear.
posted by darkstar at 10:03 PM on May 8, 2017 [36 favorites]
That was the snarky GOP question "Who made you a Supreme Court Justice?" when criticizing Yates for not defending Trump's Muslim ban. (Hell, two Federal Judges have since agreed with Yates' instincts on whether the ban was possibly unlawful.)
The GOP Senators' implication is that, unless you are a SCOTUS Justice, you are not allowed to exercise judgment about whether a superior is giving an unlawful order. That, essentially, you must "just follow orders" because they are your superior, even if you feel the order is unlawful.
It is not only our law and custom to question unlawful orders, but also members of the Executive explicitly pledge an oath of loyalty to uphold and defend our laws (specifically, the Constitution), not to blindly obey their superiors. Which means that they are tasked with making such judgment calls as the bedrock of their power to act at all.
I get that it's mainly political positioning for these GOP Senators. But seriously, these assholes embrace authoritarianism WAY too easily, I swear.
posted by darkstar at 10:03 PM on May 8, 2017 [36 favorites]
New thread.
posted by notyou
Great!
Sorry, notyou -- new catch-all posts don't need to be comprehensive/multi-link, but we need them to be at least meet the bar of being actual Mefi posts.
posted by LobsterMitten
Totally understandable but a bummer.
notyou, I appreciate the spirit. Thanks!
posted by wallabear
Me too! But...
If the link is not valid then perhaps it would be wise to save everyone a click who thinks there is actually a new post and remove it?
posted by futz at 10:13 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by notyou
Great!
Sorry, notyou -- new catch-all posts don't need to be comprehensive/multi-link, but we need them to be at least meet the bar of being actual Mefi posts.
posted by LobsterMitten
Totally understandable but a bummer.
notyou, I appreciate the spirit. Thanks!
posted by wallabear
Me too! But...
If the link is not valid then perhaps it would be wise to save everyone a click who thinks there is actually a new post and remove it?
posted by futz at 10:13 PM on May 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Big props to zachlipton for going above and beyond on the new FPP content. I have no idea how you guys can keep track of the deluge of terrible shit that this administration throws at us every single day -- my mental image of you putting together FPPs is something like this -- so thanks for providing this valuable service to the community.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:20 PM on May 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 10:20 PM on May 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
That picture is pretty much my browser tabs right now, yes. The sad thing is that the post has been up like 10 minutes, and there are already five things I realize I could have included, but honestly, it's enough terrible shit in one place for now.
whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com is a good place for a summary of just some of the shit. I'll check it to see that I haven't missed like an entire major story.
posted by zachlipton at 10:23 PM on May 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com is a good place for a summary of just some of the shit. I'll check it to see that I haven't missed like an entire major story.
posted by zachlipton at 10:23 PM on May 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
> Interesting developments in Columbus, where it looks like the Working Families Party is trying to make a stealth run at several offices.
#fuckyeahentryism
Though this sounds less like a stealth run and more like an activist group got together to run a slate, and in the process reached out to the Working Families Party. In any case, it's a good sign.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:27 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
#fuckyeahentryism
Though this sounds less like a stealth run and more like an activist group got together to run a slate, and in the process reached out to the Working Families Party. In any case, it's a good sign.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:27 PM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Nixon threatened to go after the Pentagon papers dude, but backed off
Nixon didn't back off -- Nixon fucked up the case with Watergate-style breakins and illegal wiretaps and bears, oh my. At trial, the judge dismissed the case.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:10 AM on May 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
Nixon didn't back off -- Nixon fucked up the case with Watergate-style breakins and illegal wiretaps and bears, oh my. At trial, the judge dismissed the case.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:10 AM on May 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
I get the impression that "I HATE THE SAME PEOPLE YOU HATE" is a winning formula for Republicans no matter how repellent you may be on a personal level.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:19 AM on May 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:19 AM on May 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
That, essentially, you must "just follow orders" because they are your superior, even if you feel the order is unlawful.
I would use the military as an example here. If an order is unlawful, a soldier is required NOT to follow that order. It gets complicated after that but it's a useful comparison because in a lot of cases, the decision whether or not to follow an order is life and death right then and there, potentially on a massive scale. And here, where the stakes are at their highest, we've told our troops that their loyalty is to their country first, the military chain of command 2nd.
In any context where the stakes are lower, it should be even clearer that the constitution comes first. The stakes that Yates is dealing with aren't really any lower than combat.
posted by VTX at 8:38 AM on May 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
I would use the military as an example here. If an order is unlawful, a soldier is required NOT to follow that order. It gets complicated after that but it's a useful comparison because in a lot of cases, the decision whether or not to follow an order is life and death right then and there, potentially on a massive scale. And here, where the stakes are at their highest, we've told our troops that their loyalty is to their country first, the military chain of command 2nd.
In any context where the stakes are lower, it should be even clearer that the constitution comes first. The stakes that Yates is dealing with aren't really any lower than combat.
posted by VTX at 8:38 AM on May 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
No. He is Australian. What are you talking about?
The Constitution protects Persons, not just citizens. If Assange is going to be tried under US law, he's going to get the full panoply of due process rights, even a First Amendment defense.
Nixon didn't back off -- Nixon fucked up the case with Watergate-style breakins and illegal wiretaps and bears, oh my. At trial, the judge dismissed the case.
Oh! Thanks for straightening that out. I think the overall point remains, though, which is that the powers the Espionage Act grants haven't fully been tested.
posted by notyou at 9:00 AM on May 9, 2017
The Constitution protects Persons, not just citizens. If Assange is going to be tried under US law, he's going to get the full panoply of due process rights, even a First Amendment defense.
Nixon didn't back off -- Nixon fucked up the case with Watergate-style breakins and illegal wiretaps and bears, oh my. At trial, the judge dismissed the case.
Oh! Thanks for straightening that out. I think the overall point remains, though, which is that the powers the Espionage Act grants haven't fully been tested.
posted by notyou at 9:00 AM on May 9, 2017
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