It has been _0_ days since the last Trump disaster
May 17, 2017 9:53 AM Subscribe

A week after Trump fired FBI Director James Comey, with varying reasons provided at and after the fact, the New York Times broke the story that Comey wrote a memo describing private meeting in February where Trump asked him "let go" of the federal investigation Flynn, which clearly did not happen, as CNN reported Grand jury subpoenas issued in FBI's Russia investigation, pursuing associates of Flynn, back on May 10. As details of this and other notes kept by Comey were made public, White House staff scramble from one fiasco to the next, and a senior official in the Trump administration summarized the situation as such: "I don’t see how Trump isn’t completely f*cked." And Trump hosted Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan at the White House Tuesday, where the Turkish president’s bodyguards beat up US protesters.

As is often the case, there's so much more (mostly pulled from What the Fuck Just Happened Today, as of the morning of Wednesday, May 17, 2017):

After the Washington Post reportedTrump revealed highly classified information to the visiting Russian foreign minister and ambassador (where a Russian photographer took photos of part of the session, which were later released by the Russian state-owned Tass news agency, and no U.S. news organization was allowed to attend any part of the meeting), Trump and H.R. McMaster, the president's top security adviser, both stated the President had the right to share "facts pertaining to terrorism and airline flight safety" with Russia
Two Israeli officials told BuzzFeed News that the intelligence shared by Trump "syncs up" with intelligence that Israel shared with its US counterparts, which is their "worst fears confirmed"
Meanwhile, Public Policy Polling reports that health care puts the House in play, and "for the first time we find more voters (48%) in support of impeaching Trump than there are (41%) opposed to the idea."
This morning, Texas Rep. Al Green called for President Trump's impeachment on House floor, being one of the most vocal proponents among a number of Democrats who have called for or mentioned impeaching Trump
It is unclear if that poll took in consideration the fact that Republicans plan massive cuts to programs for the poor, as due to pressure to balance the budget and align with Trump, the House GOP has its eye on food stamps, welfare and perhaps even veterans’ benefits.
Also unclear if recent polling will shift GOP opinion or direction, as GOP polling over the weekend shifted against them in Montana and Georgia. National GOP starting to worry.

If you want to contact your representatives, Resistbot makes it easy.

posted by filthy light thief (3227 comments total) 138 users marked this as a favorite

Thanks for the new thread.
posted by all about eevee at 9:53 AM on May 17, 2017 [29 favorites]

Also, maybe this will be the thread where he resigns!
posted by all about eevee at 9:54 AM on May 17, 2017 [62 favorites]

Counting by days just doesn't seem granular enough anymore.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:56 AM on May 17, 2017 [69 favorites]

I wonder why Trump Org might be liquidating assets at a time like this:

WPost: Trump’s ‘huuuuuge’ Caribbean estate is on the market for $28 million, prompting questions

Four St. Martin real estate agents told The Washington Post that the $28 million price tag far outstrips the amount that sellers are getting for the most exclusive properties on the Caribbean island, where the market is still rebounding from the 2008 banking crisis.

Sure, this fire sale raises any number of questions, but all of the answers are either "emoluments" or "money-laundering".
posted by Doktor Zed at 9:56 AM on May 17, 2017 [54 favorites]

Hurray for new thread.

So, before Comey sandbagged Hillary with his non-announcement about her emails, Republicans were going on record refusing to endorse Trump's candidacy, and he responded by tweeting a lot of inflammatory rhetoric, closeting himself away from campaign events, refusing Republican support, and making lists of the people who betrayed him.

What happens when articles of impeachment are filed?
posted by Autumnheart at 9:57 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

once again, heartfelt thanks to every Mefite who puts in the effort to create these threads (and every mod who keeps 'em running more or less smoothly).
posted by Old Kentucky Shark at 9:57 AM on May 17, 2017 [87 favorites]

Countdown to a future comment describing this post as having been made in a more innocent time. Next Trump scandal to break in 10... 9...
posted by prefpara at 9:57 AM on May 17, 2017 [23 favorites]

May this one last for a week!
posted by drezdn at 9:57 AM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]

Why is the foreign trip even happening? Clearly Trump doesn't want to go and I can't imagine these nations invited him. So who is pushing this?
posted by Servo5678 at 9:57 AM on May 17, 2017 [10 favorites]

Looks like Trump has gotten himself into another pickle! It's going to be interesting to see how he gets out of thi--

[trump easily gets out of his pickle]

Well anyway, I still think he's going to be impeached very shortly!
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 9:58 AM on May 17, 2017 [102 favorites]

Why is the foreign trip even happening? Clearly Trump doesn't want to go and I can't imagine these nations invited him. So who is pushing this?

It's an easy way to just put him front of a teleprompter so he can look presidential again.
posted by dilaudid at 10:00 AM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]

Is it too much to ask to have one day without some fresh horror? Just one?
posted by SisterHavana at 10:00 AM on May 17, 2017 [11 favorites]

The Cap Times (Wisconsin newspaper): Editorial: House Speaker Paul Ryan needs to be replaced with an adult
posted by supercrayon at 10:00 AM on May 17, 2017 [90 favorites]

[trump easily gets out of his pickle]

To be fair, I'm not sure Trump has actually got out of any pickles yet, he just seems to get himself into another bigger pickle to make people forget about the last one. It's like he's nesting parentheses.
posted by drezdn at 10:01 AM on May 17, 2017 [209 favorites]

Vox: Donald Trump has committed the exact offense that forced Richard Nixon to resign

In Nixon’s case, what crossed the line, moving top leaders from his own party to go to the White House and tell Nixon that his presidency was over, was Nixon’s attempt to hamper the FBI’s investigation into Watergate.

And we now know that before Trump fired FBI Director James Comey, he asked Comey to stop investigating former National Security Adviser Flynn. This is exactly the same kind of FBI investigation interference that forced Nixon out of the White House and shocked his Republican allies out of defending him.

posted by ZeusHumms at 10:01 AM on May 17, 2017 [63 favorites]

Meanwhile, Public Policy Polling reports that health care puts the House in play, and "for the first time we find more voters (48%) in support of impeaching Trump than there are (41%) opposed to the idea."

After the election I just have no faith in polls anymore (not just PPP, but all of them). They all fucked up so badly.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:02 AM on May 17, 2017 [8 favorites]

Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish: Counting by days just doesn't seem granular enough anymore.

I figure this title will be accurate for the foreseeable future. Alternate title: "Can't sleep, might miss breaking presidential news."
posted by filthy light thief at 10:03 AM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

so this has already been linked from other sources, but i just want to say that paul ryan's "welp" face in the accompanying photo is the only sustenance i require
posted by murphy slaw at 10:04 AM on May 17, 2017 [9 favorites]

looks like i picked the wrong week to quit amphetamines
posted by entropicamericana at 10:05 AM on May 17, 2017 [37 favorites]

It's like he's ~~nesting parentheses~~ Matryoshka dolls.

ftfy.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 10:05 AM on May 17, 2017 [60 favorites]

I stand by my theory that he intends to cash in on this being-president thing for as long as he can, get himself kicked out (but not arrested) so he doesn't have to be president any more, move his whole family and business activities to Russia, then retire.
posted by davejay at 10:05 AM on May 17, 2017 [12 favorites]

I, on the other hand, hope we need a new thread within 48 hours at the most due to Trump either further incriminating himself on twitter, rage-quitting, or trying to fire a sitting Senator.

Or, you know, impeachment proceedings.
posted by lydhre at 10:06 AM on May 17, 2017 [25 favorites]

looks like i picked the wrong week to quit amphetamines

Try to keep up. I'm switching to glue next.
posted by loquacious at 10:06 AM on May 17, 2017 [8 favorites]

Why is the foreign trip even happening? Clearly Trump doesn't want to go and I can't imagine these nations invited him. So who is pushing this?

Probably better than going to Disney World.

I keep having this kind of conversation with the young folks:

"It's like 1972 all over again."

"What happened in 1972?"
posted by lagomorphius at 10:07 AM on May 17, 2017 [13 favorites]

so this has already been linked from other sources, but i just want to say that paul ryan's "welp" face in the accompanying photo is the only sustenance i require

To abuse an elderly meme

Me at the start of 2016: Paul Ryan goofball workout photos

Me halfway through 2017: Paul Ryan 'welp' face
posted by Existential Dread at 10:08 AM on May 17, 2017 [9 favorites]

Maybe he's going on this trip so that he can defect to Russia before he gets the chance to be impeached.

I mean we can hope can't we?
posted by phack at 10:08 AM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

I have a feeling the thread title is going to be correct no matter what day it is.
posted by azpenguin at 10:09 AM on May 17, 2017 [22 favorites]

Alexandra Petri/WaPo op-ed (mentioned a few hours ago in other thread): The president is not a child. He’s something worse.

Apparently, it's unfair to be compared to President Trump. Children, bulls, bears, cartoon villains - all have some redeeming qualities that he doesn't.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:09 AM on May 17, 2017 [27 favorites]

Guys when does this bloodlust for Republicans go away

Am I turning into a werewolf
posted by schadenfrau at 10:11 AM on May 17, 2017 [88 favorites]

Guys when does this bloodlust for Republicans go away

wow so much for the tolerant left
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:12 AM on May 17, 2017 [82 favorites]

Rep. Kinzinger (R-IL) on CNN calling for an independent investigation from "an outside group", "outside of politics".
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:12 AM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]

Rep. Kinzinger (R-IL) on CNN calling for an independent investigation "an outside group", "outside of politics".

Some sort of bureau. A federal bureau, perhaps. Maybe one tasked with investigating?
posted by Barack Spinoza at 10:13 AM on May 17, 2017 [257 favorites]

Rep. Kinzinger (R-IL) on CNN calling for an independent investigation "an outside group", "outside of politics".

At the pace at which things are unfolding, the only people who will be able to conduct a proper investigation will be a bunch of time lords.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:13 AM on May 17, 2017 [31 favorites]

East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94: Rep. Kinzinger (R-IL) on CNN calling for an independent investigation "an outside group", "outside of politics".

One issue with calling for an independent investigation now is that the current FBI efforts are halted, and that new effort starts from scratch. Even if they get access to FBI resources, they'll have to re-evaluate those resources to identify any bias or gaps.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:14 AM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

The fact that 48% of voters favor impeachment, or that his disapproval rating is in excess of 54% (as of this writing (2017-05-17)). He has an 84% approval rating among the Republican base. That's all the cover GOP members of Congress need in order to forego a "profile in courage" moment and prioritize country over party.

For the last six months, thanks to a holdover meant to protect slavery (the Electoral College), and decades of gaming the system, we have lived in a world where a small, backward-thinking, racist faction has been able to force their will on the majority of this country. The fact that no one in government, with the possible exception of some executive agencies and the courts, is trying to act in that fashion makes me question the patriotism of our leaders.
posted by MrGuilt at 10:14 AM on May 17, 2017 [77 favorites]

> from "an outside group", "outside of politics"

Help us, Obi-Wan Zuckerberg, you're our only hope.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:15 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

After the election I just have no faith in polls anymore (not just PPP, but all of them). They all fucked up so badly.

I gotta point out that polling for the national popular vote was within normal bounds of accuracy, and 538 gave Trump a 29% chance of victory, which is not very unlikely at all.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:15 AM on May 17, 2017 [64 favorites]

Am I turning into a werewolf

But enough about Nixon.

AROOOOO!
posted by Servo5678 at 10:16 AM on May 17, 2017 [13 favorites]

To be fair, I'm not sure Trump has actually got out of any pickles yet, he just seems to get himself into another bigger pickle to make people forget about the last one.

It's pickles all the way down.
posted by dephlogisticated at 10:16 AM on May 17, 2017 [18 favorites]

Barack Spinoza: Some sort of bureau. A federal bureau, perhaps. Maybe one tasked with investigating?

To counter my prior comment: the FBI is currently without leadership, unless the interim leadership just stays in place until the current investigation(s) conclude. Any new leadership, picked by Trump, will be assumed to come with its own taint and possibility of complicity due to Trump's prior request for loyalty.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:16 AM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

Meanwhile, Trump used his commencement speech at the Coast Guard academy this morning to complain that no politician in history has been treated worse or more unfairly than he has.

All I can say is DONALD TRUMP, WHO ARE YOU CRAPPING?
posted by SisterHavana at 10:17 AM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

At the pace at which things are unfolding, the only people who will be able to conduct a proper investigation will be a bunch of time lords.

A later incarnation of Trump known as The Valeyard will in charge of trying Trump.
posted by drezdn at 10:17 AM on May 17, 2017 [18 favorites]

One issue with calling for an independent investigation now is that the current FBI efforts are halted

Why would this be required? Why can't the investigations operate in parallel?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:17 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

He has an 84% approval rating among the Republican base.

I think it was on 538 a while ago, but I saw that dipping below 90% support from your base is unusual. And going below 80% is dangerous. It basically guarantees election failures across the board. So just remember that.
posted by Glibpaxman at 10:18 AM on May 17, 2017 [44 favorites]

Meanwhile, in conservativeland, the greatest scandal to ever happen in the world is the Clintons' wanton murder of a former associate who knew too much, a brave American who saw evil and tired to warn us. A hero named ~~Vince Foster~~ Seth Rich.
posted by Naberius at 10:18 AM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

A conservative columnists has put forth the idea that Trump should be removed under the 25th amendment.

You can see why this would be preferable to people who don't look forward to a drawn out investigation, but it would also be more decisive. Of course, congress would have to agree on it....
posted by lumpenprole at 10:18 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

538 gave Trump a 29% chance of victory, which is not very unlikely at all.

And given my luck with the RNG on Civ6 and WoW - that's a basically guaranteed sub-optimal outcome.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 10:18 AM on May 17, 2017 [11 favorites]

Just to keep time scales in perspective, as was noted in the previous thread, public support for impeachment is now at about the level it was for Nixon in October of '73, which was still 10 months before his eventual resignation. And as the 538 folks point out, even during the height of Nixon, quite a few Republican members of Congress opposed actual impeachment, as did Republicans during Iran-Contra, and Democrats in '98. It is very unlikely anything like impeachment would happen before the 2018 elections, so worries about Pence-vs-Trump are likely moot for some time now, and we can both pursue impeachment as hard as we like, while being fairly sure to still benefit from the electoral drag of Trump at least until 2018. But mainly, this means we have to pace ourselves -- emotionally, if not in our activism. Even with a Comey-firing scale scandal every week, all of this is unlikely to result in anything more definitive than a series of investigations, committees, reports, etc. Which are all good things, inasmuch as they might block AHCA, tax cuts, and all the other nasty stuff the Republicans would pass if they could get their acts together. But it means we're still in for a very long haul, so I would encourage all of us to think about exactly what pace (e.g., in these threads) we can imagine sustaining for another 50-100 weeks, until the game seriously changes in 2018 after Democrats (hopefully) take the House. The resistance depends on pacing and self-care.
posted by chortly at 10:19 AM on May 17, 2017 [71 favorites]

Future thread title: "You'd better get out the flags and fix a parade" in honor of Trumpy's upcoming Rainbow Tour.
posted by charred husk at 10:19 AM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

Senate Intel panel asks Comey to testify publicly 🍿
posted by supercrayon at 10:19 AM on May 17, 2017 [25 favorites]

To be fair, I'm not sure Trump has actually got out of any pickles yet, he just seems to get himself into another bigger pickle to make people forget about the last one. It's like he's nesting parentheses.

This is going to end with a stack overflow, isn't it?
posted by biogeo at 10:21 AM on May 17, 2017 [17 favorites]

Senate Intel panel asks Comey to testify publicly 🍿
posted by supercrayon at 13:19 on May 17 [+] [!]

This will be a great opportunity to really get to the bottom of that whole crazy emails thing.
posted by Evstar at 10:21 AM on May 17, 2017 [27 favorites]

Trying to calculate how much damage a President Pence can accomplish in something less than 24 months. Any ideas?
posted by rc3spencer at 10:22 AM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

foxnews.com top headline right now: CRACKS IN THE WALL: Comey ‘memo’ has Republicans increasingly leery of Trump drama

Huh.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:22 AM on May 17, 2017 [10 favorites]

out of the frying pan into the fire into the volcano into the basement at chernobyl into the surface of the sun
posted by murphy slaw at 10:22 AM on May 17, 2017 [54 favorites]

Bear in mind that Nate Silver's 29% prediction was based on the possibility of systemic error in polling results. So that he was vindicated doesn't mean the (state-by-state) polls were right, it just means there were indications of their wrongness.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:24 AM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

A tweet for every occasion.

@realDonaldTrump Just as I predicted, @BarackObama has not allowed an independent investigation into the national security leaks from his cabinet.
posted by joedan at 10:24 AM on May 17, 2017 [22 favorites]

Any Half-Decent Hacker Could Break Into Mar-a-Lago
posted by zombieflanders at 10:25 AM on May 17, 2017 [15 favorites]

CRACKS IN THE WALL: Comey ‘memo’ has Republicans increasingly leery of Trump drama

You know, not really a memo, but more of a 'memo'. I mean, not memo in so many words, but 'memo'. You know?
posted by lumpenprole at 10:25 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

He has an 84% approval rating among the Republican base.

Consider though, that is not 50% R and 50% D, as it might have been in times past. Now it's more like 33%R / 33%D / 33%I, and it's the Is that everyone is trying to win over.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 10:26 AM on May 17, 2017 [9 favorites]

from the The Washington Post:

Look at how I’ve been treated lately, especially by the media," President Trump said at the U.S. Coast Guard Academy's commencement on May 17. "No politician in history, and I say this with great surety, has been treated worse or more unfairly."

Maybe you can have worse, but the treatment seems fair to me.
posted by piyushnz at 10:27 AM on May 17, 2017 [15 favorites]

I gotta point out that polling for the national popular vote was within normal bounds of accuracy, and 538 gave Trump a 29% chance of victory, which is not very unlikely at all.

Not just a roughly 30% of victory but also laid out the exact scenario for Trump's victory which actually happened. It was extremely prescient. I know that 538 is basically the only place I'm going to trust going forward.
posted by Justinian at 10:27 AM on May 17, 2017 [10 favorites]

A 'memo' which may offer 'proof' that the 'President' maybe 'broke' the 'law' ... so-called.
posted by wabbittwax at 10:27 AM on May 17, 2017

Any Half-Decent Hacker Could Break Into Mar-a-Lago

You'd think that the FSB would have locked it down to prevent, say, the Chinese or Americans or someone from stealing their asset.
posted by acb at 10:28 AM on May 17, 2017 [16 favorites]

Here's my legislative contact angle for the day with talking points for Senators:

Tell Sen. Richard Burr (Chair of the Intelligence Committee) and Sen. Charles Grassley (Chair of Judiciary Committee) that:

- All documents related to the James Comey firing must be turned over in a timely fashion or subpoenaed

- Jefferson B. Sessions III must be investigated for his role in the firing of James Comey, given his own suspicious connections to Russian agents, and subsequent recusal from the investigation of Russia

- James Comey must testify under oath, in a public open session, as to the state of the Russia investigation at the time of his firing

- He must also testify as to whether Trump asked for a loyalty oath or tried to interfere with the investigation into Russian electoral interference

- The committees must also subpoena and release Trump's tax returns, in full, so the American people can see how his finances may have influenced his choice to betray highly classified intelligence to Russian agents in the Oval Office

- Failure to do so will show the country how unpatriotic the Republican leadership is
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:28 AM on May 17, 2017 [31 favorites]

Senate Intel panel asks Comey to testify publicly

Didn't he say something about how the only way he would agree to testify before Congress was if it was in open session?....
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:29 AM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

Look at how I’ve been treated lately
worlds tiniest violin for worlds tiniest hands
posted by localhuman at 10:29 AM on May 17, 2017 [28 favorites]

wow so much for the tolerant left

I ran out of tolerance somewhere between outright misogyny, sexual assault, and the appearance of literal nazis

And my tolerance cupboard shall remain pretty fucking bare so long as any of those things remain acceptable in the republican tent

Bring on the full fucking moon
posted by schadenfrau at 10:29 AM on May 17, 2017 [142 favorites]

Consider though, that is not 50% R and 50% D, as it might have been in times past. Now it's more like 33%R / 33%D / 33%I, and it's the Is that everyone is trying to win over.

Not in a Republican primary it ain't.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:30 AM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

I think it was on 538 a while ago, but I saw that dipping below 90% support from your base is unusual. And going below 80% is dangerous. It basically guarantees election failures across the board. So just remember that.

I think things are looking fairly good for the Democrats, honestly, for 2018. I'm beginning to believe one reason things went so well for the GOP in the Senate/House is because the American public, by and large, prefers a split government, rather than one party, whichever it is, controlling all three houses. Right now, it's the R's. I don't think the electorate will allow that to continue even without this insanity. Given it, it's pretty much a guarantee the Dems will pick up seats.
posted by corb at 10:31 AM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

CNBC: Dow drops 250 points, S&P and Nasdaq fall 1% as Trump worries send shivers down Wall Street
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:33 AM on May 17, 2017 [12 favorites]

I wonder if Trump is aware some politicians have been beheaded. Or killed, buried, dug up for a mock trial, and dumped in the Tiber. Some of them were even competent! Some got sainted! Some people saying nasty things in the press when you actually suck is, historically, barely a blip on the "bad things that happen to politicians" scale.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:34 AM on May 17, 2017 [77 favorites]

ThisIsFine.jpg
posted by chavenet at 10:35 AM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

This is going to end with a stack overflow, isn't it?

As many a scheme does.
posted by cortex at 10:35 AM on May 17, 2017 [27 favorites]

You'd think that the FSB would have locked it down to prevent, say, the Chinese or Americans or someone from stealing their asset.

Perhaps they're running Drumpf as a honeypot. It makes as much sense as anything else, really.
posted by lumpenprole at 10:35 AM on May 17, 2017

Michael McFaul (former US Ambassador to Russia): Trump has given Putin the best gift he could ask for

Well before Trump, Putin has argued that the United States is no different from any other country in the world, including Russia. Putin rarely tries to celebrate Russia’s democracy. Instead, he cynically suggests that other governments, including American democracy, are similar to Russia’s system of government. Putin and his Kremlin-controlled media outlets propagate to Russians and the world the idea that our democratic institutions are just as flawed as theirs and that our press is not free or impartial, but rather, controlled by oligarchs and the White House. Likewise, Russian propagandists claim that our Congress, political parties and courts are not really independent. In their view, a so-called “deep state” — anchored by the CIA and the military-industrial complex — really controls policymaking, especially foreign policy. And individual American politicians are not bound by norms or ideals, but motivated only by their personal interests. (The Netflix show “House of Cards” became a huge hit among Russian elites when I lived there last.)

It has become much more difficult to argue that the United States’ democracy is unique, admirable or an example for other countries. When I served in the U.S. government, we argued in Moscow, Beijing and Budapest that the United States was a nation governed by laws. Last week, our president fired FBI Director James B. Comey, the most senior government official responsible for investigating the Trump campaign’s possible ties to Russia during our presidential election. The president did not violate the letter of our Constitution but most certainly violated its spirit. Try explaining this in Moscow, Beijing or Budapest. How does this decision look any different from when autocratic leaders do the same to impede important investigations? Similarly, images of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) officers removing immigrants from courthouses, airplanes and factories fuel the impression that we have no greater respect for human rights than other countries do.

American exceptionalism has always been deeply problematic. But on our best days, standing up around the world for human rights, the rule of law, a free press, and democratic institutions, hypocritical as it may have been for us to do so sometimes and however much we ignored such considerations in favor of more pressing practical concerns, was one of our best virtues. As McFaul notes, our total abdication of that role and Trump's own championship of "whataboutism" plays directly into Putin's long-term agenda.
posted by zachlipton at 10:35 AM on May 17, 2017 [103 favorites]

Looking at 1% moves in the market as a reaction to any particular bit of news might as well be haruspicy. Talk to me when it moves 800 points or more in one day.
posted by Justinian at 10:35 AM on May 17, 2017 [20 favorites]

"No politician in history, and I say this with great surety, has been treated worse or more unfairly."

Dan Snow on Twitter:
'Well, the Emperor Valerian was captured in battle, enslaved, used as a foot-stool, forced to drink molten gold and then skinned and stuffed."
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 10:35 AM on May 17, 2017 [115 favorites]

Why is the foreign trip even happening? Clearly Trump doesn't want to go and I can't imagine these nations invited him. So who is pushing this?

The President is already miserable and would struggle to cope with eleven days on the road in any case...

Mike Pence?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:35 AM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

WPost: Trump’s ‘huuuuuge’ Caribbean estate is on the market for $28 million, prompting questions

The question it raised for me was this:

The trust appears to be seeking substantially more for the St. Martin residence than Trump paid the previous owners, Steve Hilbert and his wife, Tomisue. Hilbert, an Indiana businessman who had licensed a caviar-based skin-care line developed by Melania Trump, sold Donald Trump the house in 2013.

I can't afford to eat caviar, let alone rub it on my face. But it's apparently a thing, and according to this article Melania's skin cream blew up on the launch pad because of the business practices of her incompetent partners:

About a year after Melania signed a contract with New Sunshine, the company imploded. John Menard found out that the investment company he'd left Hilbert to manage, MH Private Equity, was making less money than he'd believed. He fired Hilbert, but Hilbert refused to leave. So Menard sued Hilbert and the management company controlled by his wife, Tomisue, for breach of contract and fraud. Steve Hilbert filed a countersuit. So did his wife, Tomisue, claiming Menard had pressured Tomisue to have a threesome with him and his wife, that he "no longer liked working, was tired of pleasing his customers, and had decided he wanted to live his life fully and fulfill his sexual urges." Somewhere in this mess, Menard decided the only way out of his financial obligations to the company he and Hilbert had started was to sue Melania Trump herself, attempting to void her contract.... And so, just months after it was launched, Melania by Melania Trump was mired in lawsuits. It barely shipped to stores. It got into a few hands. And then it was done.

Other than pointing out that Melania likely lied under oath by saying that she graduated with a bachelor’s in architecture, the article is pretty sympathetic to Melania:

It’s unclear why Melania Trump has not tried to launch a product since the failure of her skincare line. Court transcripts suggest that Melania was indeed passionate about her designs, and mad when they did not come into the market in the way that she wanted. The transcripts also make it clear that Melania is a serious business woman, that given the opportunity and a company more competent that New Sunshine, she might be able to launch many more successful products. And the court documents make it seem like she’s not done yet.

Imagine what Melania Knauss could have accomplished if she had married up instead of settling for Donald Trump.
posted by peeedro at 10:36 AM on May 17, 2017 [19 favorites]

'Well, the Emperor Valerian was captured in battle, enslaved, used as a foot-stool, forced to drink molten gold and then skinned and stuffed."

But did they call him a Secret Aethiopian?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:37 AM on May 17, 2017 [14 favorites]

mcmaster is getting some pushback on his claim that trump's disclosures were "wholly appropriate"

NBC: Trump Gave Russians Secrets News Orgs Are Being Asked To Withhold

National Security Adviser H.R. McMaster told reporters Tuesday that what Trump shared was "wholly appropriate," and that Bossert acted "maybe from an overabundance of caution."

McMaster, a serving Army general who is not steeped in counterterrorism, did not immediately realize the impact of what Trump had said, the U.S. official recounted.

Many current and former intelligence officials said they were aghast at what they described as a reckless mistake by the president. But behind the scenes, U.S. intelligence officials were divided on the real world impact. Some said it could harm intelligence sharing, while others disagreed. Many pushed back on a news report that the life of an Israeli asset was in danger.

Four U.S. officials told NBC News they did not believe any lives were put at risk. Two said, however, that the Israeli operation, one of the West's best windows into ISIS, was in jeopardy in the wake of the president's disclosure.

McMaster told reporters that Trump had not been aware of the source of the information he conveyed to the Russians, a statement that raised questions about whether the president has been properly briefed on how he should treated classified intelligence.

posted by murphy slaw at 10:37 AM on May 17, 2017 [19 favorites]

> At least with the clown-in-chief making a fool of himself every day, nothing else will get done (hopefully).

This argument would make a lot more sense if real harm weren't already being done on a daily basis, with no significant opposition from the majority party.

> I suspect the best we can hope for is that Trump becomes such a national embarrassment that it tarnishes the corporate wing of *both* parties for a generation or two. (assuming we're still alive at the end of it)

How many eggs (read: other peoples' lives) are you willing to sacrifice to make this omelette of progressive change? No need for a specific number, just an order of magnitude will suffice. I'd also like some support for the idea that the "corporate wing of *both* parties" would receive the blame for Trump. Seems to me that a lot of things have to go right or that to actually occur, and, again, we're dealing with life and death of actual human beings in the mean time.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:38 AM on May 17, 2017 [42 favorites]

I'm for the resignation and/or impeachment of Every Single Administration Official. With that said, it's somewhat shocking to see folks questioning whether or not Trump should be removed because it might help Democrats electorally.

I support the immediate removal of Donald J. Trump from office. He is an existential threat, not just to this nation, but all life on the planet.

Pence is an odious, sickening man too, but Trump must go NOW.

Country. Over. Party.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:38 AM on May 17, 2017 [175 favorites]

Look at how I’ve been treated lately, especially by the media," President Trump said at the U.S. Coast Guard Academy's commencement on May 17. "No politician in history, and I say this with great surety, has been treated worse or more unfairly."

He really is the late-period Morrissey of politics, isn't he?
posted by acb at 10:38 AM on May 17, 2017 [43 favorites]

a caviar-based skin-care line developed by Melania Trump

It's very popular. The entire Republican party is going to have egg on their faces.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:39 AM on May 17, 2017 [79 favorites]

People: What Does Barack Obama Really Think of Donald Trump? ‘He’s Nothing But a ...'

Cool, even-keeled, no-drama Barack Obama is one of the few people in the country who hasn’t publicly opined on the tweets and turmoil wrought by President Trump. And so a persistent question to those close to the former president is: What does Obama really think of the man now occupying the Oval Office?

“He’s nothing but a bullsh–ter,” Obama told two friends early last November, describing an election night phone call with Trump, in which the businessman suddenly professed his “respect” and “admiration” for Obama—after years of hectoring.

posted by ZeusHumms at 10:39 AM on May 17, 2017 [30 favorites]

I fear I might lose in the pool I have with friends of inauguration plus 18 months.
posted by zippy at 10:40 AM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

claiming Menard had pressured Tomisue to have a threesome with him and his wife, that he "no longer liked working, was tired of pleasing his customers, and had decided he wanted to live his life fully and fulfill his sexual urges."

the 1%, they're just like us!
posted by murphy slaw at 10:42 AM on May 17, 2017 [13 favorites]

The trust appears to be seeking substantially more for the St. Martin residence than Trump paid the previous owners, Steve Hilbert and his wife, Tomisue. Hilbert, an Indiana businessman who had licensed a caviar-based skin-care line developed by Melania Trump, sold Donald Trump the house in 2013.

About a year after Melania signed a contract with New Sunshine, the company imploded. John Menard found out that the investment company he'd left Hilbert to manage, MH Private Equity, was making less money than he'd believed. He fired Hilbert, but Hilbert refused to leave. So Menard sued Hilbert and the management company controlled by his wife, Tomisue, for breach of contract and fraud. Steve Hilbert filed a countersuit. So did his wife, Tomisue, claiming Menard had pressured Tomisue to have a threesome with him and his wife, that he "no longer liked working, was tired of pleasing his customers, and had decided he wanted to live his life fully and fulfill his sexual urges." Somewhere in this mess, Menard decided the only way out of his financial obligations to the company he and Hilbert had started was to sue Melania Trump herself, attempting to void her contract.... And so, just months after it was launched, Melania by Melania Trump was mired in lawsuits. It barely shipped to stores. It got into a few hands. And then it was done.

...and do you know where Mr. Hilbert met his second wife, Tomisue?

At his son's birthday party; she jumped out of the cake.

“My first memory of Hilbert was a story that went through Indianapolis like wildfire,” says Eddie Cheever, a former racecar driver and team owner when Conseco was a sponsor in the old Indy Racing League. Hilbert was at a birthday party, which included a large cake. “A young, lovely lady jumped out and did what women do when they jump out of cakes at dinner parties,” says Cheever. “The kicker to the story was that he then went on to marry the young lady. Hard to forget that one. Racing is full of interesting stories, but that one takes the cake, so to speak.”

I will say, though, she's a very sweet person.
posted by leotrotsky at 10:43 AM on May 17, 2017 [16 favorites]

It's like he's nesting parentheses Matryoshka dolls.

Except each doll is a turd, and somehow each successive one is bigger instead of smaller.
posted by Quindar Beep at 10:43 AM on May 17, 2017 [14 favorites]

ugh - enough with the impeachment / resigning calls already. That would make things so much worse. All the minions with the real power, and intent, to screw things up would still be there (led by Pence, no less), and they'd then be cast in the role of responsible adults cleaning up the mess. At least with the clown-in-chief making a fool of himself every day, nothing else will get done (hopefully).

I can't disagree with this strongly enough. Regardless of what happens, the rest of this term is going to stink of Trump, but it is absolutely critical that this man be removed from office for his crimes. Not only is he dangerously unstable, his incompetence is actively destroying our international alliances. President Pence will be a nightmare, but at the very least he won't bumblingly destroy our relationships with long-time allies like Israel.

A conservative columnists has put forth the idea that Trump should be removed under the 25th amendment.

The problem with a 25A solution is that Pence has to be the one to initiate it. I think this has several problems. First, I doubt he's likely to, or at least he won't until the damage is even worse than it already is. Second, if it does, he potentially gets to be cast as a "savior" who reluctantly stepped in when Trump could no longer serve due to his poor health. Third, it contributes to the continuing problem that Congress isn't fucking doing their job. Removing a treasonous president is supposed to be their job, not the VP's. The Republican Congress has been slowly abdicating all its responsibilities over the last few decades, shifting more and more power to the presidency. As glad as I am that Obama did what he had to do in the face of an obstructionist Congress, this expansion of executive power is not good for the country. The fact that jackasses like Paul Ryan seem to feel they can get away with saying "Welp, nothing I can do about this situation!" is bad enough, establishing precedent for issues of succession to be resolved entirely within the executive with only a rubber stamp from Congress will only make things worse.
posted by biogeo at 10:44 AM on May 17, 2017 [35 favorites]

What podcasts are people following during this whole mess? I am looking for something along the lines of Pod Save America/various Crooked Media pods or the various Vox podcasts. I need more pods, ideally ones that are released on a daily basis to keep up with this insanity. I know that a daily podcast won't necessarily be content-rich, but people in my real world are so detached from politics that it gives me comfort to have somebody chattering in my ear about it.
posted by Anonymous at 10:45 AM on May 17, 2017

(also repeatedly refreshing news websites, Twitter, and this thread is not a recipe for getting anything done)
posted by Anonymous at 10:46 AM on May 17, 2017

John Menard found out that the investment company he'd left Hilbert to manage, MH Private Equity, was making less money than he'd believed.

Does anyone know if this is John Menard Jr.?
posted by drezdn at 10:46 AM on May 17, 2017

Wouldn't be the first (or second) time Comey threw someone big under the bus.
posted by Peach at 10:46 AM on May 17, 2017

so umm, does all this mean that we can at least declare an official moratorium on Republicans referring to themselves as good judges of character?
posted by philip-random at 10:47 AM on May 17, 2017 [8 favorites]

There's going to be this weird cohort of Coast Guard officers who, when they pass in the hallway, simply look at each other and nod. Academy '17? the glance will say. Academy '17, the slight eye roll will confirm. Some older or younger officer will notice that the temperature has dropped, and start to ask "What?" before remembering that these two have seen a thing that, while not as bad as combat, nevertheless has forged a bond between them. And every now and then, someone will whisper "surety" on a bridge, and only a few will laugh.
posted by Etrigan at 10:47 AM on May 17, 2017 [51 favorites]

Seawater is technically a "caviar extract" if you squeeze it right.
posted by CyberSlug Labs at 10:47 AM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

> the American public, by and large, prefers a split government, rather than one party

False, and not even close.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:47 AM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

ugh - enough with the impeachment / resigning calls already. That would make things so much worse.

No. Listen, Pence is awful. But Pence at least understands the basics of governance. I have been living in dread of what will happen if there's a serious national security emergency or natural disaster under the Trump presidency. Because Trump will not respond rationally to such a thing. Trump is not mentally capable of handling a major, non-self inflicted emergency. So on top of whatever we have to worry about from the emergency itself, we have to live in terror of whatever crazy nonsense Trump would do in response to it, and then whatever crisis ensues as the military or whoever decides whether or not follow through on that nonsense. Right now, we're in a car being driven by a drunk driver. The designated driver is a total asshole, and creepy, and we probably don't want to be locked alone in a room with him for any length of time longer than this drive, but he won't drive us off a cliff or into oncoming traffic. The priority is getting the drunk driver out from behind the wheel.
posted by yasaman at 10:47 AM on May 17, 2017 [120 favorites]

Does anybody remember what I'm talking about?

I remember it, but I can't remember when it happened.
posted by drezdn at 10:49 AM on May 17, 2017 [9 favorites]

Donald Trump has committed the exact offense that forced Richard Nixon to resign

Trumps one innovation is that basically when he arrives at a point where anyone else would resign he doesn't. It's remarkably effecvtive.
posted by Artw at 10:50 AM on May 17, 2017 [23 favorites]

At least with the clown-in-chief making a fool of himself every day, nothing else will get done (hopefully).

I'm sure the people who care about the Mossad asset (or assets) that Trump betrayed for the lols might have some opinions on that.
posted by xyzzy at 10:50 AM on May 17, 2017 [11 favorites]

Does anyone know if this is John Menard Jr.?

According to this Forbes article, it is indeed John Menard Jr.

Cracks me up that Menards Asshole is behind that.
posted by Autumnheart at 10:51 AM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

Hate to say it but Trump is not going anywhere. Maybe he'll be impeached. But so was Bill Clinton. Will he be removed from office in a vote? Unlikely.

All that's left for the next four years is bitterness and ugliness, day after day after day.
posted by My Dad at 10:51 AM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

jcreigh: this?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:51 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

Re: Melania Trump's caviar skin cream business... About a year after Melania signed a contract with New Sunshine, the company imploded.

We should bear in mind - in all fairness to Melania - that this is a business that is notorious for being a tough roe to hoe.

*ducks*
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:51 AM on May 17, 2017 [86 favorites]

This morning our office telescreens were on CNN (before someone who knows how to work the remote switched them to the Cartoon Network.) I saw some little picture which said above it "Any moment on CNN" and below it "Trump speaks live amid new crisis." Shouldn't they just leave that up?
posted by madcaptenor at 10:51 AM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]

"No politician in history, and I say this with great surety, has been treated worse or more unfairly."

He really believes this. Because he thinks all politicians are as corrupt as he is. Just more hypocritical about it, maybe. Not "straight shooters" like him.

He thinks as politicians are this corrupt, and he doesn't understand why the press is go ing him such a hard time and when they played along with everyone else. After all, he had such a great relationship with the press before. He was a star.

as long as Trump is in office, he normalizes his way of doing things, which is basically to ignore the law completely and dare anyone to do anything about it.

Quoted for Truth. The longer this goes on the more damage will be done to our institutions. My greatest fear is democratic backsliding.

We need to stop him now, while we still can.

Already we have become a "flawed Democracy."

I can't remember if this analysis of the risks Trump poses to our democracy (by the author of "On Tyranny") was already posted on another thread, but if you haven't read it, you should. And so is this Vox piece about what 21st century authoritarianism looks like, called "Life in authoritarian states is mostly boring and tolerable."

If we let Trump be normalized, we will lose our democracy even if we keep its trappings. Impeachment is the clearest way to say "this is not normal"... before it is.
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:51 AM on May 17, 2017 [24 favorites]

In February? This might not be the exact meeting but I think it would have been around this time.

Comey meets Intel senators amid uproar over Trump-Russia ties (Some autoplay video/sound)
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 10:51 AM on May 17, 2017

BTW can we keep this title for all future threads? or possibly just rename the site?
posted by Artw at 10:52 AM on May 17, 2017 [23 favorites]

American exceptionalism has always been deeply problematic.

These days the only thing exceptional about Americans is their ability to fuck themselves if it'll fuck the black/gay/female person worse.
posted by Talez at 10:52 AM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

Any Half-Decent Hacker Could Break Into Mar-a-Lago [ProPublica]: We tested internet security at four Trump properties. It’s not good.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:52 AM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

Does anybody remember what I'm talking about?

March 15th
posted by Sophie1 at 10:52 AM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

Quick note, we've now got a separate thread about the ProPublica Mar-a-Lago digital security investigation if folks want to dig in on that.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 10:54 AM on May 17, 2017 [15 favorites]

2017: I remember it, but I can't remember when it happened.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:54 AM on May 17, 2017 [13 favorites]

March 15th

so like, last week.
posted by murphy slaw at 10:55 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

ugh - enough with the impeachment / resigning calls already. That would make things so much worse.

I have much more confidence in Pence not to get into a nuclear conflict.

I have almost zero confidence that Trump will be able to do the same.

Whatever happens politically, we can deal with that within 'the rules.' There were some pretty fucking dark times in the last Bush admin too, but we got through that. We can actually GET through a Pence presidency. I don't know if we'll actually survive a Trump presidency
posted by furnace.heart at 10:55 AM on May 17, 2017 [11 favorites]

WTF? @Acosta: "DHS Sec. Kelly tells POTUS, holding ceremonial saber at USCG commencement to "use that on the press.""

It's reportedly audible on a hot mic, though I haven't seen tape anywhere yet.
posted by zachlipton at 10:55 AM on May 17, 2017 [28 favorites]

We should bear in mind - in all fairness to Melania - that this is a business that is notorious for being a tough roe to hoe.

Even after careful planning, you could wind up with egg on your face.
posted by Autumnheart at 10:56 AM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

what happens if the POTUS attacks you with a sword

are you allowed to defend yourself

does the secret service stop him
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:58 AM on May 17, 2017 [37 favorites]

Bah, someone beat me to the egg-on-face usage. Now I have egg on my face!
posted by Autumnheart at 10:59 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

out of the frying pan into the fire into the volcano into the basement at chernobyl into the surface of the sun.

Then the murders began.
posted by Quindar Beep at 10:59 AM on May 17, 2017 [13 favorites]

Fucker doesn't believe in exercise, he's gonna be shit in a fight. Bets he could do is come at you in a shuffle.
posted by Artw at 10:59 AM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

> "DHS Sec. Kelly tells POTUS, holding ceremonial saber at USCG commencement to "use that on the press.""

Is it any shock that the people around him were chosen because they're assholes, and/or they lower themselves to his level of asshole-dom? The fish rots from the head down.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:00 AM on May 17, 2017 [8 favorites]

After you recover from your injuries at the hospital, you apologize for getting in the way of the President's sword.
posted by notyou at 11:00 AM on May 17, 2017 [14 favorites]

Periodic reminder that every single crisis so far including this crisis has been entirely self-inflicted, that eventually there will be a disaster that Trump & co. did not start themselves and will be called upon to manage, and holy shit.
posted by saturday_morning at 11:01 AM on May 17, 2017 [70 favorites]

If you want some quick directions for action in resistance, here's the latest re:act email message via their official webpage.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:01 AM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

> "'No politician in history, and I say this with great surety, has been treated worse or more unfairly.'"

Why, for him to be treated more unfairly, some miscreant would have to call into question the facts of his life from his very birth, contemptuously claiming that the place where he claimed to be born, and therefore his entire existence upon this planet, was nothing but a lie, and that he therefore in fact has no legal right to his position at all!
posted by kyrademon at 11:02 AM on May 17, 2017 [52 favorites]

Meanwhile, Trump used his commencement speech at the Coast Guard academy this morning to complain that no politician in history has been treated worse or more unfairly than he has.

I'd think Presidents Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley, and Kennedy would have something to say about that...
posted by JoeZydeco at 11:02 AM on May 17, 2017 [22 favorites]

Huey Long (AKA the Kingfish), who should be studied as a prototype for Trump, may have been accidentally shot by his own bodyguards in their rush to shoot someone he got into a tussle with.*

So, you know, fingers crossed.

* In the official account the assailant was armed.
posted by Artw at 11:03 AM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

Is it legal to challenge an elected official to a duel?
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:04 AM on May 17, 2017 [10 favorites]

Huey Long (AKA the Kingfish), who should be studied as a prototype for Trump, may have been accidentally shit by his own bodyguards in their rush to shoot someone he got into a tussle with.*

Since we have an edit function, I'm preserving this for posterity.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:04 AM on May 17, 2017 [42 favorites]

may have been accidentally shit by his own bodyguards in their rush to shoot someone he got into a tussle with.

The poor bodyguard.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:04 AM on May 17, 2017 [8 favorites]

He thinks as politicians are this corrupt, and he doesn't understand why the press is go ing him such a hard time and when they played along with everyone else. After all, he had such a great relationship with the press before. He was a star.

Yes. The Trump algebra is:

being a star = you can do whatever you want. They let you do it
you can do whatever you want. They let you do it = having power
having the most power = being president

Which leads to:

being president = you can do the most of whatever you want. They let you do all of it

So he's... understandably confused as to how his presidency is going so far.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:05 AM on May 17, 2017 [62 favorites]

may have been accidentally shit by his own bodyguards

And Trump thinks he's been treated unfairly!
posted by saturday_morning at 11:05 AM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]

Lincoln especially. Gets elected, half the country secedes. Wins Civil War, gets assassinated. Party that he helped create to end slavery turns around and become racist ignorant sacks of shit.
posted by Glibpaxman at 11:05 AM on May 17, 2017 [100 favorites]

Autumnheart: Bah, someone beat me to the egg-on-face usage. Now I have egg on my face!

Dont' feel too bad. The caviar thing was bound to spawn more than one instance of that comment downstream somewhere.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:06 AM on May 17, 2017 [33 favorites]

Is it legal to challenge an elected official to a duel?

Which official? Because right now it's a choice between a sword and a Pence.
posted by Autumnheart at 11:06 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

OTOH, with Trump bumbling around at Mar-a-Lago and his golf courses and the government around him in damage-control mode, America isn't going to be turned into a hybrid Republic of Gilead/Hunger Games rapidly. With Pence in charge of a well-disciplined cadre of Republicans with their eyes on the prize and no distractions, the transformation will be rapid.

Perhaps Trump's handlers could make sure to idiot-proof his environment; replace his nuclear codes and intelligence briefings with fake ones and let him do what he pleases, whilst discreetly reassuring America's counterparts on the global stage that competent people are actually in charge?
posted by acb at 11:06 AM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

well you can't say that dallas doesn't love you mister president
posted by entropicamericana at 11:06 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

The thing about Pence triggering the 25th is that Pence is a very dumb man, who has always been managed by his staff and handlers. It's honestly very helpful if you think of him as an automaton with limited programming. When he's been programmed properly he does great as a talking head and stuffed shirt. But when his aides have failed to prep him for a particular question or turn of events, he just freezes. He literally cannot answer off-the-cuff questions, or delve into detail, or deviate from his talking points if the conversation swerves. (It's part of why you don't actually see him doing the rounds of political morning shows that often.)

Triggering the 25th is the sort of thing that requires a strong personality with a sense of duty and the capacity for independent evaluation and independent action. Pence has none of those, and he doesn't have a Svengali on staff who could direct him to make big, bold moves or convince him they're his idea. He's a very small-time politician with a very limited intellect who moves within a limited, safe realm of GOP orthodoxy, as explained to him by his handlers.

Triggering the 25th would require Pence to be capable of boldness. He is not. He is a small and timid man who knows himself dependent upon his advisers and who has always been scared to stand alone in the face of opposition -- when he passed stupid-ass bills as governor of Indiana that were unexpectedly unpopular, he would hold closed signing ceremonies and refuse to do press conferences and cancel public appearances because he folds like a cheap suit in the face of controversy.

Pence would obviously be better than Trump as president -- he would be wrong within normal parameters -- but Pence doesn't lead from the front, ever, and he won't on this.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 11:06 AM on May 17, 2017 [130 favorites]

Since we have an edit function, I'm preserving this for posterity.

FAKE NEWS!
posted by Artw at 11:07 AM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

Lincoln especially. Gets elected, half the country secedes. Wins Civil War, gets assassinated.

Bannon, Sessions et al. definitely don't see that as a case of unfair treatment.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:07 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

If we let Trump be normalized, we will lose our democracy even if we keep its trappings. Impeachment is the clearest way to say "this is not normal"... before it is.

It's too late, it already is. We can never go back no matter what happens to Trump, even if he were impeached tomorrow. His victory showed it was possible to win in that manner, which means other people will invariably try, and sometimes succeed.

If Trump goes down it will only mean that those who come after him know where the public line is before they face any consequences and adjust accordingly to do whatever they want without crossing it. Trump's problem is Trump; the next person who wants to play like Trump might be just as evil but much smarter.

This is the new normal. Trump has blazed a new trail to victory and shown that certain tactics can work, and you can never take that back.
posted by Sangermaine at 11:07 AM on May 17, 2017 [8 favorites]

Putin offers to give U.S. Congress notes of Trump's meeting [not the Onion]
posted by heatherlogan at 11:07 AM on May 17, 2017 [9 favorites]

Chaffetz also says he wants Comey to testify next week, but he [real] doesn't have Comey's phone number since he left the govenrment: "I need to actually be able to contact him and other than looking him up on Google, I need to network out how to be able do that."
posted by zachlipton at 11:07 AM on May 17, 2017 [21 favorites]

I wouldn't trust these people to find their own asses.
posted by Artw at 11:09 AM on May 17, 2017 [14 favorites]

Trump just fired you, and this is crazy, but here's my number, call me Comey
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:09 AM on May 17, 2017 [132 favorites]

So we're what, a week or two away from Republicans saying "Trump was only joking when he suggested Putin kill Comey for him."
posted by drezdn at 11:09 AM on May 17, 2017 [9 favorites]

After you recover from your injuries at the hospital, you apologize for getting in the way of the President's sword.

I thought only the Vice President can receive an apology from the victim of their aggression.
posted by Talez at 11:09 AM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]

An early Washington Post story on the beating of protesters by the Turkish was very circumspect - they vaguely described a clash between two groups of protestors, and did not say that it was Erdogan's bodyguards who did it.

There's been reporting that part of the reason the DC police couldn't do more was that some of the guards were carrying guns. If a foreign guard pulls a gun on protestors and god forbid kills one, what would the cops do?
posted by OverlappingElvis at 11:10 AM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

They're cops, they'd probably cheer.
posted by aramaic at 11:12 AM on May 17, 2017 [9 favorites]

If we get through this, though, it's important to remember how young our country is. Pretty much every other country in the world has suffered through leaders who were mad, bad or dangerous to know in some combination. We will be scarred but we do not have to be destroyed.

My most hopeful moments are those where I picture the Trump Presidency display in a museum in the year 2500, where a few outrageous stories are told and then the narrative launches into the wave of reforms that followed while the schoolchildren yawn and wonder why their ancestors were so stupid.
posted by emjaybee at 11:13 AM on May 17, 2017 [77 favorites]

he [real] doesn't have Comey's phone number since he left the govenrment: "I need to actually be able to contact him and other than looking him up on Google, I need to network out how to be able do that."

I get that we're dealing with a rare set of circumstances here, but the Chair of the House Oversight Committee doesn't have staff that can track down contact information for people he wants to talk to?
posted by diogenes at 11:14 AM on May 17, 2017 [15 favorites]

There's been reporting that part of the reason the DC police couldn't do more was that some of the guards were carrying guns. If a foreign guard pulls a gun on protestors and god forbid kills one, what would the cops do?

They would be arrested. A foreign guard does not have diplomatic immunity and has only functional immunity. Committing a felony like that would be grounds for arrest and prosecution.
posted by Talez at 11:14 AM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

Trump just fired you, and this is crazy, but here's my number, call me Comey

When I find myself in times of trouble
Director Comey comes to me
Leaking words of wisdom
"Let it pee"

posted by CyberSlug Labs at 11:15 AM on May 17, 2017 [26 favorites]

They would be arrested. A foreign guard does not have diplomatic immunity and has only functional immunity. Committing a felony like that would be grounds for arrest and prosecution.

They're on video kicking a guy on the ground in the head repeatedly. I'm not a lawyer, but how is that not assault with a deadly weapon?
posted by OverlappingElvis at 11:16 AM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]

Art of the Deal ghost writer Tony Schwartz is back with more insight into Trump's mind: His Self-Sabotage Is Rooted In The Past. (WaPo)

"On the face of it, Trump has more opportunities now to feel significant and accomplished than almost any human being on the planet. But that’s like saying that a heroin addict has his problem licked once he has free and continuous access to the drug. Trump also now has a far bigger and more public stage on which to fail and to feel unworthy."

posted by JoeZydeco at 11:18 AM on May 17, 2017 [20 favorites]

They're on video kicking a guy on the ground in the head repeatedly. I'm not a lawyer, but how is that not assault with a deadly weapon?

Because common assault is usually a misdemeanor without aggravating factors.
posted by Talez at 11:18 AM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

Apparently, it's unfair to be compared to President Trump. Children, bulls, bears, cartoon villains - all have some redeeming qualities that he doesn't.

As do dingleberries, particles of projectile vomit, lamprey mouths and oozing pustules.
posted by y2karl at 11:19 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

It is also a felony to commit assault with a dangerous weapon in the District of Columbia. Dangerous weapons are objects that are likely to produce death or great bodily injury, or they can also include any object that is actually used to kill or cause injury or to attempt to kill or cause injury. The District of Columbia appears to use more expansive definition of a dangerous weapon, which means that, for example, a firearm is a dangerous weapon, but so is a beer bottle if it is used to cause injury. Even a clenched hand or steel toe boot can be considered a dangerous weapon, if either is used (or attempted to use) to cause injury.

(D.C. Code §§ 22-402, 22-4501.)
posted by OverlappingElvis at 11:19 AM on May 17, 2017 [10 favorites]

Presumably if they actuallywnated to arrest these guys they could just go ahead and do it.

They won't.
posted by Artw at 11:20 AM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

It is also a felony in the District of Columbia to intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly cause significant bodily injury while committing an assault. Significant bodily injury requires immediate medical attention or warrants hospitalization.

(D.C. Code § 22-404.)
posted by OverlappingElvis at 11:20 AM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

So, for future reference, here are the members of the House Judiciary Committee. If the investigations ever get going, eventually it'll get in front of these, uh, distinguished gentlemen and ladies.

Republicans
Bob Goodlatte, Virginia, Chairman
Jim Sensenbrenner, Wisconsin
Lamar S. Smith, Texas
Steve Chabot, Ohio
Darrell Issa, California
Steve King, Iowa
Trent Franks, Arizona
Louie Gohmert, Texas
Jim Jordan, Ohio
Ted Poe, Texas
Jason Chaffetz, Utah
Tom Marino, Pennsylvania
Trey Gowdy, South Carolina
Raúl Labrador, Idaho
Blake Farenthold, Texas
Doug Collins, Georgia
Ron DeSantis, Florida
Ken Buck, Colorado
John Ratcliffe, Texas
Mike Bishop, Michigan
Martha Roby, Alabama
Matt Gaetz, Florida
Mike Johnson, Louisiana
Andy Biggs, Arizona

Democrats
John Conyers, Michigan, Ranking Member
Jerrold Nadler, New York
Zoe Lofgren, California
Sheila Jackson Lee, Texas
Steve Cohen, Tennessee <--my Congressman
Hank Johnson, Georgia
Ted Deutch, Florida
Luis Gutiérrez, Illinois
Karen Bass, California
Cedric Richmond, Louisiana
Hakeem Jeffries, New York
David Cicilline, Rhode Island
Eric Swalwell, California
Ted Lieu, California
Jamie Raskin, Maryland
Pramila Jayapal, Washington
Brad Schneider, Illinois
posted by Huffy Puffy at 11:21 AM on May 17, 2017 [12 favorites]

They're cops, they'd probably cheer.

The DC Capitol Police are professionals who serve our democracy daily by ensuring the right of the people to peaceably assemble and protest in our nation's capitol. I have no love of authoritarian thugs who hide behind a uniform, or the culture of the thin blue line that protects them, but this is a good department, and this kind of hot take is pretty gross.
posted by biogeo at 11:21 AM on May 17, 2017 [81 favorites]

Presumably if they actuallywnated to arrest these guys they could just go ahead and do it.

They won't.

I'm just saying it's ridiculous to think that these guys are on the right side of the law.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 11:21 AM on May 17, 2017

Will no one rid me of this troublesome FBI director?
posted by bq at 11:21 AM on May 17, 2017 [18 favorites]

Look, typically consular officers may only be arrested and be taken into custody for serious felonies. If they have a blue bordered ID card from the state department they're untouchable. If someone kills a person and they don't have a blue bordered card they're going to jail.
posted by Talez at 11:21 AM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

>This argument would make a lot more sense if real harm weren't already being done on a daily basis, with no significant opposition from the majority party.
Debateable. The argument is the real harm would get significantly worse, and become much more entrenched.

How many eggs (read: other peoples' lives) are you willing to sacrifice
Your "sacrifice" framing implies impeachment would somehow magically make the harm go away (?).

> but it is absolutely critical that this man be removed from office for his crimes.
Only if your goal is to preserve the status quo, which was already broken, just less so. Four years of embarrassment and futility might possibly be enough to empower a very big broom.

>My most hopeful moments are those where I picture the Trump Presidency display in a museum in the year 2500, where a few outrageous stories are told and then the narrative launches into the wave of reforms that followed while the schoolchildren yawn and wonder why their ancestors were so stupid.
Yes, we can hope.
posted by cfraenkel at 11:22 AM on May 17, 2017

the rest of the administration has figured out how to use the the president's excuse!

so McMaster didn't destroy his credibility after all. he didn't lie when he lied to the press, he was just wrong because he had no idea what was going on at the meeting he was at, because he didn't know that the information Trump shared was important. a deeply stupid man of principle, our national security adviser. trump didn't take his dignity, just his brains. that is the explanation of record.

this is the empathy gap I cannot bridge, that there are so many powerful people who would rather be thought stupid than wicked. it is probably nothing to brag about, that I would admit to immorality sooner than idiocy in their place. but of course not being an idiot is why I am not in their place.
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:22 AM on May 17, 2017 [16 favorites]

Guys I’m starting to think President isn’t the best fit for on-the-job training.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:24 AM on May 17, 2017 [26 favorites]

> but it is absolutely critical that this man be removed from office for his crimes.

Only if your goal is to preserve the status quo, which was already broken, just less so. Four years of embarrassment and futility might possibly be enough to empower a very big broom.

Accelerationism on aisle 12, we have some accelerationism on aisle 12! Someone go find a mop.
posted by lydhre at 11:25 AM on May 17, 2017 [35 favorites]

Whether or not you think that the DC cops made the right call by not arresting those thugs, this is going to get worse and soon it will be our protests that are attacked. And people are going to die.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 11:25 AM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

If you make it worse for long enough, in some distant future it will get way way better. This is why the 76ers are so successful. We just have to trust the process.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 11:26 AM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

Jimmy Fallon Was on Top of the World. Then Came Trump. (NyTimes)
posted by kuatto at 11:26 AM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

Sam Hinkie: The Zen Master of Accelerationism
posted by tonycpsu at 11:26 AM on May 17, 2017

Guys I’m starting to think President isn’t the best fit for on-the-job training.

It's almost like there are reasons the President tends to be an elite insider establishment type.
posted by Justinian at 11:27 AM on May 17, 2017 [15 favorites]

Jimmy Fallon Was on Top of the World. Then Came Trump. (NyTimes)

Here's the world's smallest violin!
posted by drezdn at 11:29 AM on May 17, 2017 [29 favorites]

"Seawater is technically a "caviar extract" if you squeeze it right."

Homeopathic caviar?
posted by XtinaS at 11:29 AM on May 17, 2017 [8 favorites]

Not exactly the strongest words from the State Department: ""We are communicating our concern to the Turkish govt in the strongest possible terms" @StateDept on violence bn protestors & Erdogan detail"

To be fair someone asked Tillerson about it and all he had to say about it was "does it have anything to do with the Russian oil industry? Then I don't give a fuck."
posted by Talez at 11:29 AM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

someone shared this segment from NBC's election night coverage and it is creepy as hell how prescient is Richard Engel's commentary on a trump win.
posted by murphy slaw at 11:30 AM on May 17, 2017 [23 favorites]

ThinkProgress' Judd Legum: UPDATE: DC police say they will work w/State Dept, Secret Service to identify assailants in Turkish embassy incident
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:30 AM on May 17, 2017 [35 favorites]

He really is the late-period Morrissey of politics, isn't he?

Congress
Congress I was only joking when I said I'd like to
Squash the inquest by the feds
posted by saturday_morning at 11:31 AM on May 17, 2017 [59 favorites]

"Let's stop with the calls for impeachment/resignation"

Our President is a fucking traitorous corrupt criminal and YOU WANT HIM TO STAY IN OFFICE?!
posted by INFJ at 11:31 AM on May 17, 2017 [46 favorites]

NYT: A New Goal for President Trump’s First Foreign Trip: Damage Control

For his part, Mr. Trump, a confirmed homebody, has expressed dread about the trip, asking aides whether it can be shortened to five days from nine. His advisers concede that the intense schedule — dozens of interactions with leaders from the Middle East and Europe, over a range of delicate issues — could produce unscripted, diplomatically perilous moments.

Even beyond the tempests surrounding the president, Israeli officials expressed alarm about the unwillingness of Mr. Trump’s national security adviser, Lt. Gen. H. R. McMaster, to publicly affirm that the Western Wall, one of the holiest prayer sites in the Jewish faith, was part of Israel.
...
Aaron David Miller, another longtime Middle East diplomat, said, “This will likely break crockery, jeopardizing sources and additional information on ISIS operations.” But he added that Mr. Netanyahu “will see no reason to exacerbate the incident, and may well see some political advantage in giving Trump some cover and the benefit of the doubt.”

In Israel, some analysts speculated that Mr. Trump’s disclosure of Israeli intelligence might force his hand on the embassy, since he would need to make a good-will gesture to the Israelis.

posted by zachlipton at 11:31 AM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

After you recover from your injuries at the hospital, you apologize for getting in the way of the President's sword.

I thought only the Vice President can receive an apology from the victim of their aggression.

A quick Google and I can't turn up any examples of Presidents who have assaulted anyone while in office. Jackson, Lincoln, and T. Roosevelt are said to have belted, slugged, or punched various persons prior to taking office (Jackson would not have had the Secret Service on hand to intervene, although Old Hickory might not have needed them). If the link above is to be believed, Teddy R was a boxer, an activity he kept up while in office until a heavy punch damaged his eyesight.
posted by notyou at 11:32 AM on May 17, 2017

Cracks me up that Menards Asshole is behind that.

He's like one of Wisconsin's own Koch brothers.
posted by drezdn at 11:32 AM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

(Not counting war-making and so on.)
posted by notyou at 11:32 AM on May 17, 2017

*snap*
it, it, feels like backstage at the Gong Show with a broken popcorn machine popcorn.
posted by clavdivs at 11:36 AM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

Our President is a fucking traitorous corrupt criminal and YOU WANT HIM TO STAY IN OFFICE?!

Not to mention a white supremacist fascist who wants to destroy democracy and the environment. But other than that, it's all good.
posted by chris24 at 11:36 AM on May 17, 2017 [20 favorites]

'Look at how I’ve been treated lately, especially by the media,' President Trump said at the U.S. Coast Guard Academy's commencement on May 17. 'No politician in history, and I say this with great surety, has been treated worse or more unfairly.'

Julius Caesar says, "Et tu, Trumpe?"
posted by kirkaracha at 11:38 AM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]

Not exactly the strongest words from the State Department: ""We are communicating our concern to the Turkish govt in the strongest possible terms" @StateDept on violence bn protestors & Erdogan detail"

Maybe later they'll escalate to "very troubled."
posted by notyou at 11:38 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

OMG I scrolled through the last 273 comments on the last thread faster than the rolling movie credits they show on TBS.

wait for meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
posted by yoga at 11:38 AM on May 17, 2017 [41 favorites]

Jimmy Fallon Was on Top of the World. Then Came Trump. (NyTimes)

Accusations that Mr. Fallon was helping to normalize an extremist candidate spread rapidly, just as they had when Mr. Michaels invited Mr. Trump to host “Saturday Night Live” in 2015.

[...]

Speaking in a quiet, tentative tone, Mr. Fallon seemed to be reliving the experience as he recounted it.

“I’m a people pleaser,” he said. “If there’s one bad thing on Twitter about me, it will make me upset. So, after this happened, I was devastated. I didn’t mean anything by it. I was just trying to have fun.”

He didn't learn anything from the hair-mussing uproar. He still doesn't understand. Enabler.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:38 AM on May 17, 2017 [64 favorites]

But maybe if he blows up the world the roaches will make a reasoned decision at the voting booth next time.
posted by lydhre at 11:39 AM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

Gay Russians Are Trying To Flee Kidnapping And Torture. The US Has Denied Them Visas.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:40 AM on May 17, 2017 [29 favorites]

I support the immediate removal of Donald J. Trump from office. He is an existential threat, not just to this nation, but all life on the planet.

I have expressed fear that if Trump is impeached and Pence is empowered, and nothing much else changes...then all the Republican plans to destroy lives and life will chug on unchallenged as everyone will be too busy celebrating the "win" of ousting Trump to care anymore.

I still have that fear and think that's exactly likely to happen, but yeah, seriously, Trump needs to be impeached yesterday. Last month. January. He is an unstable, openly corrupt, openly compromised head of state of questionable legitimacy and loyalty who would have been impeached, imprisoned and launched in a rocket into the sun were he literally any other president. Trump is a powerful symbol to resist, and it's easy to fear that if he falls, resistance fizzles and the US simply belongs to Republicans going forward. But it probably already does, and meantime, Trump is an existential threat to life on Earth who continues to do horrifically illegal, unethical, frankly stupid things every single day.
posted by byanyothername at 11:41 AM on May 17, 2017 [17 favorites]

I didn’t mean anything by it. I was just trying to have fun.

"Why can't I joke around with Hitler? I just like to make people laugh." - Some German comedian in 1933 probably.
posted by chris24 at 11:41 AM on May 17, 2017 [49 favorites]

From the state department: Guide to Diplomatic and Consular Immunity for Law Enforcement and Judicial Authorities

I don't like it one bit, but Erdogans henchmen likely fall under "Members of Administrative and Technical Staff" for "Diplomatic Agents" - The DC cops were likely working to do as much as they could within the guidelines presented here. I'm not a police apologist by any means, but I do think that they are put in a different situation than most here - Diplomatic immunity is a tricky concept and they likely have to make assumptions rapidly.

This is still horrible and there _should_ be some diplomatic actions taken here - something I don't expect under this administration.
posted by MysticMCJ at 11:42 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

Not to mention a white supremacist fascist who wants to destroy democracy and the environment.

The problem is that the replacement is a Dominionist fascist who is far more shrewd and disciplined (though, to be fair, that's not a high bar). Impeaching Trump may be a case of slamming down the accelerator.
posted by acb at 11:43 AM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

heatherlogan: Putin offers to give U.S. Congress notes of Trump's meeting

Just like the rest of the Russian-sourced leaks (Macron's data dump, for example), expect the information to accurate, but in the words of Trump's lawyers, "with few exceptions."

Which then undermines the credibility of anything in the information, but that won't hurt Putin like it will hurt Trump.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:46 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

Trump: "No politician in history, and I say this with great surety, has been treated worse or more unfairly."

Someone told him about the Jon Stewart observation that he always says "believe me" when he's lying, so he's switched it up with "and I say this with great surety".
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:47 AM on May 17, 2017 [28 favorites]

The sense I'm getting from Congressional Republicans is that they're starting to realize they have to get ahead of this. They're not actually interested in doing something, but they know that the hits are just going to keep on coming, and it's increasingly going to pose a problem for their sweet precious tax cuts, so they at least want to try a little bloodletting and get more of it out at once instead of the steady drip-drip.

For example, look at Chaffetz. He's a completely useless person who has no intention of actually performing oversight, but noticed a hearing with Comey for next Wednesday before he's even managed to find Comey's phone number or come up with a plan to find his phone number besides Googling it.

At this point, their calculations are around how they still get their massive tax cuts with all of this going on.

And as a sign of how bad this has gotten, Rep. Curbelo's office actually called Mother Jones to request a correction that he was the first Republican to mention impeachment, not Rep. Amash. When Republicans are fighting to be recognized as the first to use the I-word, shit is moving fast.
posted by zachlipton at 11:48 AM on May 17, 2017 [66 favorites]

I encourage anyone who says that Trump should remain in office because Pence is more competent and will get more done to read up on the American nuclear arsenal. And maybe watch "Threads".
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:49 AM on May 17, 2017 [37 favorites]

The problem is that the replacement is a Dominionist fascist who is far more shrewd

Assumes facts not in evidence. Trump is dumb but has a certain cunning and charisma (to some.) Pence is dumb with neither cleverness nor personality. Pence couldn't even run a conservative state like Indiana well enough to get re-elected.

Plus I'd rather fight Lawful Evil than Chaotic Evil.
posted by chris24 at 11:49 AM on May 17, 2017 [91 favorites]

encourage anyone who says that Trump should remain in office because Pence is more competent and will get more done to read up on the American nuclear arsenal. And maybe watch "Threads".

Nuclear hellfire would heighten the contradictions tho
posted by Barack Spinoza at 11:50 AM on May 17, 2017 [10 favorites]

I don't know. I'd rather us not become annexed to Russia. I'll take Pence's possible presidency over losing our country's identity and democracy.
posted by INFJ at 11:51 AM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

@Jordanfabian: President Trump meeting with four candidates for FBI director: Andrew McCabe, Frank Keating, Joe Lieberman plus one other, per @PressSec

You did not read that wrong. Joe Lieberman's name really is on that list.
posted by zachlipton at 11:51 AM on May 17, 2017 [34 favorites]

VP Pence just formed his own PAC
posted by Peach at 11:51 AM on May 17, 2017 [38 favorites]

In Israel, some analysts speculated that Mr. Trump’s disclosure of Israeli intelligence might force his hand on the embassy, since he would need to make a good-will gesture to the Israelis.

oh god. some analysts still don't understand what they're working with. he might do this, who knows! but he doesn't "need to" do anything. it isn't like with a president.

he is like a terrifying Victorian children's story about the dangers of unbounded leisure and total want of industry. wheresoever he is, so long as he is out of prison, he will do anything and everything that he wants. the lesson of the children's story is that this does not make you happy, but I don't think the analysts need to be interested in that part of it.
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:52 AM on May 17, 2017 [12 favorites]

"No politician in history, and I say this with great surety..."

Hmm.

In the jurisdiction where I live:

A surety is someone who agrees to take responsibility for a person accused of a crime.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:53 AM on May 17, 2017 [23 favorites]

It was the same argument against the Dems using the filibuster with Gorsuch. Holding back is not going to get us ANYTHING. Impeach Trump, then deal with Pence.

Seriously guys, take one motherfucker at a time and we can get this done.
posted by lydhre at 11:53 AM on May 17, 2017 [42 favorites]

VP Pence just formed his own PAC

Great America Committee? Seriously? He's so addicted to the roller coaster bullshit of this administration that he's naming his fucking PAC the "Great America Committee"?
posted by Etrigan at 11:53 AM on May 17, 2017 [15 favorites]

An early Washington Post story on the beating of protesters by the Turkish was very circumspect - they vaguely described a clash between two groups of protestors, and did not say that it was Erdogan's bodyguards who did it. They've since posted an updated story.

You link goes to the wrong place, here's the updated Post coverage: Turkey’s presidential guards clash with D.C. protesters outside ambassador’s residence

D.C. police announced they are pursuing charges against additional suspects involved in Tuesday’s violent clash between demonstrators and guards for visiting Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

Two people with direct knowledge of the investigation said authorities are reviewing video to try to identify Erdogan guards who they believe instigated the melee outside the Turkish ambassador’s residence. Nine people were injured; two arrests already have been made.

posted by peeedro at 11:53 AM on May 17, 2017 [9 favorites]

The cycle on "WTF just happened today" is too slow. I need "WTF just happened in the four hours since I last checked MF."
posted by Coventry at 11:54 AM on May 17, 2017 [33 favorites]

VP Pence just formed his own PAC

I've seen reports that this is "a legal move to move Pence assets -- donor files, email lists -- from Indiana to the federal level."

That said, the "Great America Committee" is a really stupid name.
posted by zachlipton at 11:55 AM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

Coventry: As far as today goes, it's pretty slow. I use Reddit (r/politics) for most up-to-the-minte breaking news bat shittery from our President.
posted by INFJ at 11:56 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

Great America Committee? Seriously? He's so addicted to the roller coaster bullshit of this administration that he's naming his fucking PAC the "Great America Committee"?

"Why does Mike Pence need six flags? Shouldn't one flag be enough for him?"
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:57 AM on May 17, 2017 [24 favorites]

Assumes facts not in evidence. Trump is dumb but has a certain cunning and charisma (to some.) Pence is dumb with neither cleverness nor personality. Pence couldn't even run a conservative state like Indiana well enough to get re-elected.

As a Hoosier, trust me, Mike's dumb as a Pence Fost. It's really hard to fuck up being a Republican governor in Indiana. He's not even corrupt! He's just so maladroit at maneuvering the unpopular parts of the Republican agenda (social stuff mostly) that he pissed off the wealthy pro-business Republicans who fund campaigns here.

He's like W without a scintilla of charm or charisma (or experienced advisors).
posted by leotrotsky at 11:59 AM on May 17, 2017 [39 favorites]

Yeah, no, Trump is worse than Pence. If America is the rope in a game of tug-of-war, Pence might be better at pulling it in the Republican's direction, but Putin has convinced Trump to just cut the rope in half. With Pence there's still a chance for us to pull back in our direction. Trump leaves us all in the dirt.
posted by that's how you get ants at 11:59 AM on May 17, 2017 [10 favorites]

Interesting take on why the 25th is not the best approach.
posted by prefpara at 11:59 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

You did not read that wrong. Joe Lieberman's name really is on that list.

Trump: he's gonna smooth things over with Israel. Did you know it was founded by Jews? I just learned that.
posted by zippy at 12:00 PM on May 17, 2017 [27 favorites]

because no political clusterfuck is complete until you get joe lieberman in there
posted by murphy slaw at 12:01 PM on May 17, 2017 [73 favorites]

Great America Committee? Seriously? He's so addicted to the roller coaster bullshit of this administration that he's naming his fucking PAC the "Great America Committee"?

Oh, no. That sly, stupid, motherfucker. He's trying to position himself as Trump's heir to the MAGAhats, and as the Savior of the Nation to everyone else.
posted by corb at 12:01 PM on May 17, 2017 [12 favorites]

VP Pence just formed his own PAC

The GAC PAC? Seriously? Is it going to include the rest of Mr. and Mrs. Mallard's eight ducklings?
posted by Mayor West at 12:02 PM on May 17, 2017 [22 favorites]

The only person the Senate Ds should accept as the new FBI head is McCabe.
posted by Justinian at 12:02 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

Trump: he's gonna smooth things over Israel. Did you know it was founded by Jews? I just learned that.

Who knew the Middle East was so complicated?
posted by kingless at 12:02 PM on May 17, 2017 [8 favorites]

Great America Committee? Seriously? He's so addicted to the roller coaster bullshit of this administration that he's naming his fucking PAC the "Great America Committee"?

It's not a terrible move if he's looking to bring the Trump base along after an impeachment/resignation/removal. The establishment Republicans will just be happy that Trump is gone and will support him unconditionally, so he might as well do whatever he can to reach out to the rabid MAGA crowd and convince them he's on their side.
posted by contraption at 12:03 PM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

Pence makes Gerald Ford look like Teddy Roosevelt.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 12:03 PM on May 17, 2017 [12 favorites]

that assumes Trump's base even knows WTF a PAC is.
posted by INFJ at 12:04 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

Impeaching Trump may be a case of slamming down the accelerator.

There have been two instances of US presidential impeachment (A. Johnson, Clinton) and one instance of resignation preempting almost certain impeachment (Nixon) and in all three cases, the overall agenda and day-to-day functioning of each embattled administration was thrown into utter chaos.

Also, in all three cases, the opposition party gained the White House in the subsequent election.
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:04 PM on May 17, 2017 [12 favorites]

The DC Capitol Police are professionals who serve our democracy daily by ensuring the right of the people to peaceably assemble and protest in our nation's capitol. I have no love of authoritarian thugs who hide behind a uniform, or the culture of the thin blue line that protects them, but this is a good department, and this kind of hot take is pretty gross.

There is no such thing as the DC Capitol Police. You have seemingly conflated the DC Metropolitan Police Dept with the United States Capitol Police, who would not, to my knowledge, be out handling the perimeter of an embassy during a protest.

As far as the idea that DCMPD is some sort of necessarily Good Department as opposed to bad ones, meh. I would opine that perhaps you are operating on an old set of impressions but they've been mediocre for a long time and have any number of really shitty past incidents with protesters. How well they handle complaints has been up for a lot of discussion and issues with them taking them have been documented.

Chief Lanier was an improvement from Ramsay but not without her flaws. The new guy, Newsham, was pretty strongly opposed by the local BLM operation. Why? Well guess who was Assistant Chief back when those protesters were kettled, hogtied, and arrested? Yep, Newsham, who it has been claimed was the person who ordered the arrests. The arrests that cost well over 10M bucks out of city coffers. Whether he ordered them or not, he was in charge in January when DCPD made mass arrests during inauguration proceedings. The ones that involved many charges of journalists who were swept up along the way.

I don't think much of Newsham and am concerned he needs to be properly watched (particularly since he's been calling for big increases in officer hiring rather than supporting intervention programs with a good track record in practice, fairly recently in nearby Baltimore) but I don't think MPD is a particularly bad operation. But they don't deserve to be held up as some bastion of protestor protection.
posted by phearlez at 12:04 PM on May 17, 2017 [13 favorites]

Only 42 percent of those who say they voted for Trump in the 2016 election strongly approve of the job he is doing
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:05 PM on May 17, 2017 [17 favorites]

If Lieberman becomes FBI Director, I will begin building a giant electromagnet designed to attract civilization-ending-sized meteors because it will be another species's turn to give this planet a try. Surely roaches would be better stewards.
posted by delfin at 12:05 PM on May 17, 2017 [30 favorites]

I love that Trump's FBI list is the guy who's already doing it, a guy who's 73 and hasn't done anything in 15 years, a guy who's 75 and retired 5 years ago, and Mystery Candidate (who is probably Mike Tyson or something).

I mean, shit, Bob Dole's still alive and well-rested from 20+ years out of the public eye, why not get him in there?
posted by Copronymus at 12:06 PM on May 17, 2017 [19 favorites]

Lieberman being on that list is just further evidence for the theory that the appointments are more about "pissing off liberals" than absolutely anything else.
posted by MysticMCJ at 12:08 PM on May 17, 2017 [25 favorites]

Rep. Cheney (R-WY, Yes-Relation) deleted a tweet praising the Comey firing letter a week after she posted it
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:08 PM on May 17, 2017 [14 favorites]

Mystery Candidate (who is probably Mike Tyson or something).

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, AUSTIN!
posted by Etrigan at 12:09 PM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]

"He's like W without a scintilla of charm or charisma (or experienced advisors)."

Haha, true Pence story that I totally forgot until just this moment -- after he got elected, Illinois's Bruce Rauner hired a bunch of Pence's campaign guys (often referred to collectively as the "frat bros") and they came in very unprepared with no budget, etc., just a lot of talking points. But the hilarious bit was, Illinois's state constitution forbids multi-subject bills -- that is, you can't try to pass a bill about school curriculum with a rider about traffic laws or whatever. All bills have to be single-subject, and if you want to pass a package of a bunch of laws, you generally have to negotiate in enough good faith to keep a coalition on board through 6 to 10 votes on a variety of bills.

The Frat Bros from Indiana had an entire legislative strategy for Illinois of rolling up big tax cuts and unpopular union-busting legislation all together in one giant bill, throwing in a couple meaningless sweeteners, and strong-arming the legislature into passing it by threatening ads that said, "YOUR REP VOTED AGAINST MOTHER'S DAY" or whatever. They didn't know multi-subject bills were constitutionally forbidden because they did not bother to read the state constitution before riding in to fix Illinois and make it just like Indiana. Nor did they brief the governor, who also did not read the state constitution, and who therefore gave several incredibly stupid interviews wherein he parroted the 25-year-old frat boys and their moronic, impossible plan, and then was surprised to learn his entire strategy was flatly illegal. It took seriously three months for the governor's office to change direction and start introducing single-subject bills.

Anyway, yeah, Pence is dumb, his state-level advisors were led by dumb fratty kids without experience in the sort of bargain-brokering you have to do to govern, and now they're Indiana's chief export!
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 12:09 PM on May 17, 2017 [154 favorites]

Spicer (he's doing a gaggle on AF1) just no commented on Erdogan's bodyguards

He also said re the Comey memo story "President has been very clear that this is not an accurate representation" of his conversation. Except the President hasn't said anything publicly about the story at all. As Glenn Thrush noted, Spicer isn't mounting a "personal defense" of Trump, presumably because he has no idea what actually happened in that room himself.

In other news: Immigration arrests up under Trump, including sharp rise for those without criminal records. What a surprise that those claims about deporting "bad ones" turned out to be a iie:

Federal immigration agents are arresting more than 400 immigrants a day, including violent offenders, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement said Wednesday. The sharpest increase in arrests is among immigrants who have never been convicted of any crime.

In President Trump’s first 100 days in office, Immigration and Customs Enforcement has arrested 41,318 immigrants, up 37.6 percent over the same period last year, the agency said. More than three out of four of those arrested have criminal records.

Nearly 11,000 immigrants with no criminal convictions were arrested during that time period, compared with 4,242 during the same period last year.

And Margaret Sullivan: Trump’s wish to jail reporters is more than possible. Ask his international friends.
posted by zachlipton at 12:10 PM on May 17, 2017 [15 favorites]

Given the way Trump operates I don't think I'd be surprised if the next leak was that he was interviewing David Duchovny, Jodie Foster, and Priyanka Chopra for head of the FBI next.
posted by Justinian at 12:10 PM on May 17, 2017 [12 favorites]

Regarding the worries about Pence...as Eyebrows McGee noted, he's an empty suit, with little ability to think on his feet. Moreover, supposedly straight-laced Michael Pence was totes cool with:

- the pussy-grabbing tape
- the racism and xenophobia
- the impugning of federal judge's reputation based on his heritage
- his involvement in the Comey firing
- the repeated evidence of the campaign's collusion with Russia
- his boss asking the Russian government to hack Hillary Clinton's emails
- the many attacks on the free press
- the insults his boss hurled at torture survivor John McCain
- the sharing of highly classified, current intelligence with a hostile nation's top agents
- lying to cover for Mike Flynn
- the hate directed at LGBTQ+ people

Pence is so wrapped up in this affair that he can be hammered away at for years for his lack of principles and nearly total debasement and compliance with his boss' wishes and actions--especially if we can make sure he is in front of some aggressive interviewers willing to hold him accountable.

He's also weird and creepy in a way that his boss isn't--Pence is a robotic, dead-eyed soulless Christian Supremacist with less charisma than a rotten corpse. We can make his political life and fortunes completely miserable, even if he becomes an unelected President.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 12:11 PM on May 17, 2017 [67 favorites]

If Lieberman becomes FBI Director, I will begin building a giant electromagnet designed to attract civilization-ending-sized meteors because it will be another species's turn to give this planet a try.

Hey now! Don't take us non-USAians down with you! Sheesh! American exceptionalism indeed!
posted by fimbulvetr at 12:14 PM on May 17, 2017 [18 favorites]

"Moreover, supposedly straight-laced Michael Pence was totes cool with: - the pussy-grabbing tape"

I mean, in Pence's defense, he was TOTALLY SURPRISED to find out that Trump was a sexual predator and adulterer because before agreeing to sign on as the VP candidate he obviously did very thorough vetting and it's nobody's fault that was literally no reporting ever before that Donald Trump had anything less that sterling sexual morality, Pence simply couldn't have been expected to know. And when he found out, HE CRIED BECAUSE HE WAS SO DISAPPOINTED IN TRUMP (I am not kidding, this was in the news), and then he prayed and Trump promised he was all done sexually assaulting people and Mike Pence thought really hard and decided "What would it profit a man to gain the whole world but lose his soul? I mean, probably millions, which is a lot of profit, so probably God's okay with it." That giant sucking sound you heard back in October was Mike Pence's soul being sucked out of his body and whisked straight to hell.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 12:16 PM on May 17, 2017 [84 favorites]

Red pill NH legislator Robert Fisher (previously) has resigned.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:17 PM on May 17, 2017 [112 favorites]

Jennifer Rubin, WaPo, with another take on why the 25th isn't a good idea: Let’s be clear about what the 25th Amendment does and doesn’t do
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:17 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

I'm baffled about the upcoming Trump Trip.

If you've got a bellicose, homebound, senile, moron for President it seems that the last thing you'd want is to yank him out of his comfort zone for a nine day pressure cooker of a whirlwind tour where he has to try to remember not just his talking points for one leader, but many.

A quick day trip up to Canada to meet with Trudeau would seem like a smarter opening move to see how things work out and if he can be coached through even a single meeting with a foreign leader without fucking things up too badly.

Doing it the way they are seems, like so much else in Trump's presidency, like a totally unnecessary self inflicted wound in the making. No one was clamoring for Trump to visit their country, he wasn't pushing for it, WTF made them decide that his first foray into international politics should be all but designed to make him fail and enrage him at most of his most trusted advisers?

Is Kushner (who appears to be the architect of this humiliating meltdown in the making) secretly trying to sabotage Trump, or does he actually think he and Ivanka can pull this off, or what?
posted by sotonohito at 12:18 PM on May 17, 2017 [30 favorites]

> Red pill NH legislator Robert Fisher (previously) has resigned.

How beta.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:18 PM on May 17, 2017 [47 favorites]

Hey now! Don't take us non-USAians down with you! Sheesh! American exceptionalism indeed!

If the US goes down it's taking the rest of the world with it. That's not a threat, it's a simple fact of life. Without the US providing its gluttonous consumption the rest of the world will enter a recession it will take decades if not centuries to come out of.
posted by Talez at 12:18 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

> Red pill NH legislator Robert Fisher (previously) has resigned.

How beta.

It's certainly beta than him not resigning.
posted by Etrigan at 12:18 PM on May 17, 2017 [65 favorites]

That said, the "Great America Committee" is a really stupid name.

Chairman of the Board
posted by lagomorphius at 12:20 PM on May 17, 2017

Excommunicated Cardinal: "Moreover, supposedly straight-laced Michael Pence was totes cool with:"

Pedantry: It's "straitlaced." Strait can mean narrow or strict, originally straitlaced would be applied to bodices made super tight, then came to mean personally uptight by extension.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:21 PM on May 17, 2017 [17 favorites]

Regarding Pence's legendary stupidity: T.D. Strange came up with an apt analogy in the last megathread: a homeschooled bag of hammers on field trip to the creation museum.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:23 PM on May 17, 2017 [40 favorites]

MetaFilter: Pedantry:
posted by tonycpsu at 12:24 PM on May 17, 2017 [22 favorites]

If it wasn't for some prior criticism of Trump's immigration idiocy, I guarantee he'd have nominated John Walsh of America's Most Wanted for FBI head. He's like the perfect fake-but-plays-one-on-tv law enforcement face for the deluded and tv-driven Trump.
posted by jason_steakums at 12:24 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

Local news is reporting that Sheriff Clarke took a job as an Undersecretary in Homeland Security.
posted by drezdn at 12:25 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

If the US goes down it's taking the rest of the world with it. That's not a threat, it's a simple fact of life.

Pish. World did plenty fine for millennia before you guys came around. No reason for a suicide-murder.
posted by fimbulvetr at 12:25 PM on May 17, 2017 [10 favorites]

I am legitimately terrified that the President of the United States is about to give a speech on Islam written by Stephen Miller. People could die.
posted by zachlipton at 12:26 PM on May 17, 2017 [54 favorites]

This foreign trip really does seem beyond Donald's current abilities and I don't think it's impossible that it was designed to undermine him. But because he has no chain-of-command, no-one is able to stop it except Donald himself.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:27 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

Local news is reporting that Sheriff Clarke took a job as an Undersecretary in Homeland Security.

please say [fake]?

isn't he like, under investigation for suspicious deaths in his jail?
posted by murphy slaw at 12:27 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

Not fake, and he sort of is.
posted by drezdn at 12:28 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

The deaths aren't really "suspicious" as such, his staff didn't provide prisoners with food and water and they died because that's what happens to human beings who don't eat or drink for a prolonged period of time. We're just in the process of deciding, yet again, whether courts care if law-enforcement personnel commit murder.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:29 PM on May 17, 2017 [89 favorites]

Sheriff Clarke

Where'd you see it? I'm not finding that on the major outlets here in town.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 12:29 PM on May 17, 2017

Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug, this reporter has it.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:30 PM on May 17, 2017

Local news is reporting that Sheriff Clarke took a job as an Undersecretary in Homeland Security.

I've seen it a few places. Assistant Secretary.

Doesn't that require Senate confirmation? That could be a problem given that the jail he runs cut off a prisoner's water until he died of dehydration.
posted by zachlipton at 12:31 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

The problem is that the replacement is a Dominionist fascist who is far more shrewd and disciplined (though, to be fair, that's not a high bar). Impeaching Trump may be a case of slamming down the accelerator.

"More than at any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly." —Woody Allen
posted by non canadian guy at 12:31 PM on May 17, 2017 [8 favorites]

Pish. World did plenty fine for millennia before you guys came around. No reason for a suicide-murder.

There's a reason why the time after the Roman Empire was gutted was called the Dark Ages. When such a world center gets gutted its vast organization of societal knowledge gets scattered to the four winds and far reaches of the Earth every other entwined nation loses critical parts of its function.
posted by Talez at 12:31 PM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

I work with some people who've survived civil conflict and the accelerationist stuff makes me both nervous and enraged. If you think a violent civil war is a great idea then perform this exercise: make a list of your twenty closest friends and family members. Cross off the names of any over sixty or under five. Of the remaining list cross off every other name. All those people are dead - at least, that's a pretty good analogy for what happened to the people I know.* So if you still think it would be a good idea to have a violent civil conflict in the US then you are a scary, scary person.

*famine, natural disaster, illness, lack of medical care, assassination by secret police, loss in combat, murder by militia.
posted by bq at 12:31 PM on May 17, 2017 [131 favorites]

First tweet here from a USA Today reporter.
posted by drezdn at 12:32 PM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

Sheriff Clarke surely won't make the same mistake again when he is running the camps.
posted by Artw at 12:34 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

also he TRAVELLED to MOSCOW on RT's DIME for the SAME GODDAMN EVENT that FLYNN was at.

either the administration thinks they're totally invulnerable or this nomination got in the pipeline weeks ago and they're too disorganized to stop it.
posted by murphy slaw at 12:35 PM on May 17, 2017 [50 favorites]

Doesn't that require Senate confirmation? That could be a problem given that the jail he runs cut off a prisoner's water until he died of dehydration.

I'm sure they can get bipartisan approval on this guy murdering us all.
posted by Artw at 12:35 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

There's a reason why the time after the Roman Empire was gutted was called the Dark Ages.

Ah, but the Dark Ages were limited to the former Western Roman Empire, i.e. Europe. The rest of the world was doing fine during the European Dark Ages.
posted by fimbulvetr at 12:35 PM on May 17, 2017 [30 favorites]

Ah. I should have figured it be on WISN AM.

It'd be nice to get rid of him, but a promotion to federal office is outrageous.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 12:35 PM on May 17, 2017

Surely this?
posted by woof at 12:36 PM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

We say "Everything they accuse Obama of, Trump is actually doing", but could that include FEMA Camps?

I'm sorry for HAARPing on about this
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:36 PM on May 17, 2017 [16 favorites]

4 people have actually died in his jail in the last year.
posted by drezdn at 12:36 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

sotonohito: A quick day trip up to Canada to meet with Trudeau would seem like a smarter opening move...

Hey now. No need for threats. It's been centuries since burned the White House. Water under the bridge, eh?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:38 PM on May 17, 2017 [20 favorites]

There's a reason why the time after the Roman Empire was gutted was called the Dark Ages. When such a world center gets gutted its vast organization of societal knowledge gets scattered to the four winds and far reaches of the Earth every other entwined nation loses critical parts of its function.

Pedantry: It's not really called the Dark Ages anymore, and what you describe wasn't really the reason.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:38 PM on May 17, 2017 [22 favorites]

Whole country will be his jail next - with Clarke that have officially gone Full Nazi.
posted by Artw at 12:38 PM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

yoga: OMG I scrolled through the last 273 comments on the last thread faster than the rolling movie credits they show on TBS.

If you're on a proper computer (not a smart phone/ device/ tablet), GraphFi bookmarklet is a wonderful tool for skimming and following linked comments.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:38 PM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

Anyway, yeah, Pence is dumb, his state-level advisors were led by dumb fratty kids without experience in the sort of bargain-brokering you have to do to govern, and now they're Indiana's chief export!

Indiana, Alabama...I feel like a lot of states are proving just how terrible their exports can be.

Better the New Jersey approach, where the export boomerangs right back.
posted by sgranade at 12:39 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

Clarke also covered up a a sheriff's accident by trying to frame the victim as a drunk driver.
posted by drezdn at 12:39 PM on May 17, 2017 [20 favorites]

"More than at any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly." —Woody Allen

A song!
posted by lagomorphius at 12:40 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

My unified theory of world history states that the Dark Ages began the very moment a hominid first stood on two legs and bashed another hominid's skull in with a rock, and they haven't ended yet.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:41 PM on May 17, 2017 [10 favorites]

@TheStalwart: Trump has decided to not move the US embassy to Jerusalem.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:42 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

One of the people who died under Clarke's care was a newborn. He is literally a baby killer.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:43 PM on May 17, 2017 [49 favorites]

Pence is so wrapped up in this affair that he can be hammered away at for years for his lack of principles and nearly total debasement and compliance with his boss' wishes and actions--especially if we can make sure he is in front of some aggressive interviewers willing to hold him accountable.

Pence isn't just complicit to Trump's egregious behavior—he's thoroughly wrapped up in the Russian scandal. Bear in mind, Paul Manafort personally picked Pence for VP, convincing Trump to choose him over Christie, and then during the transition, he and Pence were in regular contact over the new administration. While Mike Flynn has been in the investigative spotlight all this time, Pence is due for his turn.
posted by Doktor Zed at 12:43 PM on May 17, 2017 [49 favorites]

I believe you mean Joe "WTF" Lieberman.
posted by diogenes at 12:44 PM on May 17, 2017

There's a reason why the time after the Roman Empire was gutted was called the Dark Ages. When such a world center gets gutted its vast organization of societal knowledge gets scattered to the four winds and far reaches of the Earth every other entwined nation loses critical parts of its function.

I think Justinian might have some things to say about this when he comes along in the thread.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 12:44 PM on May 17, 2017 [13 favorites]

Chrysostom: Red pill NH legislator Robert Fisher (previously) has resigned.

Fisher’s role in The Red Pill was first reported in two separate Daily Beast investigations which linked domain records for Red Pill websites to others for Fisher’s personal and campaign use.

Just another reminder that without a truly free press, this would not have happened. Hug (with their consent) a journalist, editor, publisher, photographer or other person in the industry today.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:46 PM on May 17, 2017 [60 favorites]

BetaFilter: Red pill NH legislator Robert Fisher (previously) has resigned.
posted by Rumple at 12:46 PM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]

Hmm. I'm looking at the Plum Book (236 page PDF file) and there are a couple of DHS Assistant Secretary positions that don't require Senate confirmation. Want to bet they're giving him one of those? I bet it's Assistant Secretary for State and Local Law Enforcement. Nobody can stop him.
posted by zachlipton at 12:46 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

Consider though, that is not 50% R and 50% D, as it might have been in times past. Now it's more like 33%R / 33%D / 33%I, and it's the Is that everyone is trying to win over.

There are almost no true political independents. There are just people who don't like openly admitting their partisan identification.

When the partisan leanings of independents were taken into account, 48% either identified as Democrats or leaned Democratic; 39% identified as Republicans or leaned Republican....

Intense dislike of the opposing party has risen sharply among independents and others who lean toward a party. Today, 44% of Republican and Democratic leaners say they have a very unfavorable impression of the opposing party, up from just 10% and 11% respectively in 1994....

In 2015, 59% of Republicans – and 45% of Republican-leaning independents – expressed consistently conservative or mostly conservative attitudes across a series of 10 questions on political values that Pew Research Center has been asking since 1994. In 2004, just 35% of Republicans, and 24% of GOP leaners, had at least mostly conservative opinions on these issues, which include the environment, the role of government, national security and social issues.

The positions of those who identify as Democrats and those who lean toward the Democratic Party are similar over this time period: In 2015, 62% of Democrats and 56% of Democratic leaners were consistently or mostly liberal. When the two groups diverged in 2004, Democratic leaners (58%) were actually somewhat more likely than Democrats (46%) to be to the left of center.

There's not a middle--not a big one, anyway. There are people who are pissed-off because their preferred party's leadership sucks or because their party isn't extreme enough for them. There are people who like to claim the cultural cachet of the pragmatic centrist even though they are going to hit the voting booth at 8:00 AM on election day and fill in the straight ticket bubble. But there are almost no actual "I could go either way; I vote for the person, not the party" folks out there, and the ones who do exist tend to be morons with wildly inconsistent policy preferences who aren't amenable to persuasion anyway. The independent label is very popular. True independence is not.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 12:49 PM on May 17, 2017 [38 favorites]

Bear in mind, Paul Manafort personally picked Pence for VP, convincing Trump to choose him over Christie, and then during the transition, he and Pence were in regular contact over the new administration.

i completely forgot about this and now everything … well i was going to say makes more sense but that would be a dirty lie
posted by murphy slaw at 12:50 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

@TheStalwart: Trump has decided to not move the US embassy to Jerusalem.

Please add peace in the Middle East to the official list of things under the heading "nobody knew that could be so complicated."
posted by zachlipton at 12:50 PM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

I'm watching the Mister Rogers Marathon on Twitch as a 'chaser' for all this awfulness, but after Mr.R's umpteenth visit from his delivery man "Mr. McFeely", seeing the name "Richard McFeely" on the list of FBI Director candidates just makes me say "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO". You can destroy all of our American institutions, but DON'T FUCK WITH MISTER ROGERS' NEIGHNORHOOD.
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:50 PM on May 17, 2017 [11 favorites]

Lieberman becomes FBI Director,

I am beginning to believe he is less trying to piss off liberals and more trying to break all of our analytics, because he is just throwing darts at a goddamn dartboard and we are all basically going to die.
posted by corb at 12:51 PM on May 17, 2017 [10 favorites]

If you have any spare cash and want to support investigative journalism, TPM is looking for more subscribers in order to hire.
posted by crocomancer at 12:52 PM on May 17, 2017 [12 favorites]

politico says the position offered to clarke is assistant secretary at DHS’ Office of Partnership and Engagement
posted by murphy slaw at 12:52 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

Regarding the 25th, while it would be in some ways delicious to have Trump not have to face consequences in an equivalent to the Right-bogeyman "by reason of insanity," it seems like a really bad idea. It would be much easier on Republican enablers. It would make it harder to pursue his crimes (if he can't do the job, can he testify about doing the job?).

Most worryingly, his hardcore base would treat this as a sneaky technicality, and they are heavily armed. While Impeachment might also trigger these poor souls, at least on that route the dirty laundry gets aired pretty thoroughly, and there is more time and reason for social consensus to gel around the idea.

Also, I don't believe for a second he has, for example, Alzheimers. He's a fucked up asshole who over the years has found it less and less necessary to keep his mouth shut. He's the angry, racist, immoral uncle not the loopy, clueless cousin.
posted by Rumple at 12:55 PM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

Thanks, crocomancer. I just subscribed.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:55 PM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

Funding for college work-study programs would be cut in half, public-service loan forgiveness would end and hundreds of millions of dollars that public schools could use for mental health, advanced coursework and other services would vanish under a Trump administration plan to cut $10.6 billion from federal education initiatives, according to budget documents obtained by The Washington Post.

posted by neroli at 12:56 PM on May 17, 2017 [10 favorites]

politico says the position offered to clarke is assistant secretary at DHS’ Office of Partnership and Engagement

*Chortle*

Fun Clarke fact, as far as I know, he's currently still on a leave of absence from the Milwaukee Police Department.
posted by drezdn at 12:56 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

I'm watching the Mister Rogers Marathon on Twitch as a 'chaser' for all this awfulness, but after Mr.R's umpteenth visit from his delivery man "Mr. McFeely", seeing the name "Richard McFeely" on the list of FBI Director candidates just makes me say "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO". You can destroy all of our American institutions, but DON'T FUCK WITH MISTER ROGERS' NEIGHNORHOOD.

McFeely was Fred Roger's middle name.
posted by lagomorphius at 12:57 PM on May 17, 2017 [11 favorites]

It's almost like there are reasons the President tends to be an elite insider establishment type.

Well, sure, the first one elected from more humble beginnings got called a hick by the old Southern political elite and sparked a civil war. I've always wanted to see some scholarship on the role elitism and residual royalist sentiment played in fomenting violent sentiment against Lincoln, because he was one of our first self educated presidents from a non elite personal background and boy what a mistake that one was if all you care about is maintaining the stability of the status quo and law and order as those ideas are popularly conceived today (basically meaning as little restrictive regulatory reform as possible to keep gubmint out of the way of job creators).
posted by saulgoodman at 12:59 PM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

Office of Partnership and Engagement

So now at least we know what the camps are going to be called.
posted by Artw at 12:59 PM on May 17, 2017 [11 favorites]

another fun fact is that clarke will be possibly the only member of the administration who is more bigoted against african-americans than jefferson beauregard sessions:

In a podcast on a conservative website, Clarke said African-Americans end up dealing drugs because they are "lazy" and "morally bankrupt."

"Let me tell you why blacks sell drugs and involve themselves in criminal behavior instead of a more socially acceptable lifestyle — because they're uneducated, they're lazy, and they're morally bankrupt," Clarke said. "That's why."

posted by murphy slaw at 1:03 PM on May 17, 2017 [32 favorites]

Thanks cjelli. My technology gave up on the other thread, maybe I'll try again. Interesting point.
posted by Rumple at 1:06 PM on May 17, 2017

Trump controversies rattle markets worldwide
posted by Barack Spinoza at 1:06 PM on May 17, 2017

oh, so smilin' joe lieberman is not just a random throw at the dartboard:

I REPEAT: Joe Lieberman is special counsel at the firm who represents Donald Trump.

I have not heard this fact uttered on my TV yet....

-- @ZerlinaMaxwell

posted by murphy slaw at 1:06 PM on May 17, 2017 [91 favorites]

wikipedia on lieberman's recent law work:

Following his retirement from the Senate, Lieberman became senior counsel of the white collar criminal defense and investigations practice at Kasowitz, Benson, Torres & Friedman, a law firm in New York City.

…
In early 2017, Lieberman introduced Pres.-elect Donald Trump's nominee as Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos to the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pension committee.

One report on Lieberman's involvement was critical of him for failing to disclose in his testimony the extensive legal work his Kasowitz, Benson, Torres & Friedman biglaw firm had done for Donald Trump since at least as long ago as 2001. The work included bankrupt casino restructuring and, during the 2016 campaign, threatening the New York Times over publication of a few 1995 Trump tax documents.

posted by murphy slaw at 1:10 PM on May 17, 2017 [17 favorites]

" I've always wanted to see some scholarship on the role elitism and residual royalist sentiment played in fomenting violent sentiment against Lincoln, because he was one of our first self educated presidents from a non elite personal background"

There's quite a bit of it out there, especially if you read books on the newspaper coverage of Lincoln and -- especially -- his wife. They were made fun of for their accents, their clothes, their style of housekeeping and entertaining. (All of which was pretty unfair to Mary Todd, who was a Southern belle herself and very gently raised.) She was mocked as a "Prairie Princess," called a "squaw," and so forth.

It was easier for Abe to brush off, since his self-education was a point of pride and he was a man who excelled at gentle self-mockery to defuse tension, and the new Republican party at the time was so fiercely egalitarian and full of self-made new men. But Mary bore the brunt of a lot of ugly, ugly classist mocking as people vented their spleens on a safer target who was far less able to defend herself, both by personal temperament and by social strictures.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 1:11 PM on May 17, 2017 [42 favorites]

@Acosta: "DHS Sec. Kelly tells POTUS, holding ceremonial saber at USCG commencement to "use that on the press.""

Video now available
posted by zachlipton at 1:11 PM on May 17, 2017 [20 favorites]

Pedantry: It's not really called the Dark Ages anymore, and what you describe wasn't really the reason.

True, but as a historical period it still sucked donkey dicks
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:14 PM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

> The thing about Pence triggering the 25th is that Pence is a very dumb man, [...]
Triggering the 25th is the sort of thing that requires a strong personality with a sense of duty

I don't think anybody assumes that Pence would attempt to trigger the 25th on his own and certainly not without a lot of assurances that the GOP leadership has his back.

What I have been assuming (from the way we know the GOP operates) is that there have been a series of meetings starting with the day he secured the Rep. nomination on How to Handle Trump. At some point they would have set a red line for forcing him out of office. It could be a polling number, it could be talk of a war with NK (they would not be opposed to a war per se but a NK war could involve nukes and it could end up being a war with China.) It could be a certain number of Republican big-money donors demanding they proceed.

I doubt they would go with the 25th--although it would be the fastest way and the least time spent slinging mud-- just because that leaves Trump to run for President again.

So it will have to be Impeachment. I guarantee that P. Ryan will not begin proceedings until M. McConnell has signaled he has enough Senate votes to deliver. The last thing on earth that Paul Ryan wants is a half-wounded and utterly maddened Trump using the powers of his office to take revenge on back-stabbers.

I was thinking that McConnell might approach Shumer to see how many Democratic Senators he can deliver. There will probably be some Republican Senators that will refuse to vote out a Republican President no matter how bad he makes them look.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:16 PM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

McFeely was Fred Rogers' middle name.
Wikipedia says he was "named for Fred Rogers' maternal grandfather", so this McFeely character could be a semi-distant relative. Let's just hope we don't hear about appointees named Daniel Tiger or Donkey Hotie.

[end derail. return to neighborhood]
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:16 PM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

I thought some legislative person promised to mention impeachment today? Nothing on that?
posted by agregoli at 1:17 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

I was thinking that McConnell might approach Shumer to see how many Democratic Senators he can deliver.

Is there a reason to think it wouldn't be 48?
posted by Justinian at 1:17 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

True, but as a historical period it still sucked donkey dicks

that's it. franciscas at dawn
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:18 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

politico says the position offered to clarke is assistant secretary at DHS’ Office of Partnership and Engagement

I didn't think they could top making Rick Perry secretary of the department he wanted to eliminate (but couldn't remember), but they've done it. Slow clap.
posted by diogenes at 1:18 PM on May 17, 2017 [9 favorites]

I'm starting to think no one should get too attached to this President.
posted by 4ster at 1:19 PM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

I thought some legislative person promised to mention impeachment today? Nothing on that?

Al Green (D-TX) did

Its way too early for this to actually do anything though.
posted by thefoxgod at 1:19 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

Naberius: Meanwhile, in conservativeland, the greatest scandal to ever happen in the world is the Clintons' wanton murder of a former associate who knew too much, a brave American who saw evil and tired to warn us. A hero named ~~Vince Foster~~ Seth Rich.

Not only has that story completely collapsed, but it was clearly manufactured almost entirely by Fox News (with an assist from Julian Assange). I commented in detail at the end of the last thread, but here are the bullet points:

- the story started with a local DC Fox station reporting that Rod Wheeler, a PI for the Rich family, said that Rich sent thousands of emails to another guy who also died lately. Fox News and Breitbart trumpeted it.

- But last night, Wheeler told CNN he never said that; it came from the Fox reporter who asked him to repeat it as a promo for Fox's story

- Rich's family had said Wheeler was suggested (and paid for) by a Dallas businessman named Butowsky, a Fox and Breitbart commentator, but Butowsky flat out denied this to NBC News.

- Butowsky, however, told CNN that he did, and that he lied to NBC because "I didn't want to talk to NBC." Dispute whether B. is paying, or Wheeler is working for free.

- Also, the DC police say Wheeler lied about his work for them and was fired in 1995. And the family is planning to sue him because he promised not to make public statements without their permission, but obviously did here.
posted by msalt at 1:20 PM on May 17, 2017 [24 favorites]

Is there a reason to think it wouldn't be 48?

Well, you see the dissension even in this thread and the last one. People aren't sure they want to give up a 2018 landslide in exchange for just getting Trump out of office. Right now, the Resistance is hot and fired up about electing Democrats. That might not be the case under a Joe Republican administration.
posted by corb at 1:21 PM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

I was thinking that McConnell might approach Shumer to see how many Democratic Senators he can deliver.

Is there a reason to think it wouldn't be 48?

No except...you never know and they would not want to get their count wrong. Remember there was some talk here about how the Dems should not vote for his impeachment so that DJT remains a millstone around Republican Party's neck.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:24 PM on May 17, 2017

Remember there was some talk here about how the Dems should not vote for his impeachment so that DJT remains a millstone around Republican Party's neck.

But it also seems like not voting for the impeachment of 45 would be a heavy stone around a dem's neck.
posted by craven_morhead at 1:25 PM on May 17, 2017 [12 favorites]

Considering Seth Rich was a DNC employee, why wouldn't any prime suspect in his murder be 100% Pro-Trump? We need to have his entire cabinet interrogated under oath as to their whereabouts the night of the shooting. Because, you know, Trump's Mirror.
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:26 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

Remember there was some talk here about how the Dems should not vote for his impeachment so that DJT remains a millstone around Republican Party's neck.

But it also seems like not voting for the impeachment of 45 would be a heavy stone around a dem's neck.

Leaving him in office is a noose around everyone's neck.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:26 PM on May 17, 2017 [14 favorites]

> Right now, the Resistance is hot and fired up about electing Democrats. That might not be the case under a Joe Republican administration.

In my own local experience, any Republican who voted "Yes" on the AHCA might as well have a scarlet "T" on their foreheads. Again, in my area, the Resistance is usually less about Trump in general and more Republican representatives in particular.

And these reps know they're going to have a hard time.

In my neighboring district, for instance, the Rep has raised so much money that he was heavily rumored to be making a run for Senate. He announced this week that he's only running for Rep. That might be a lie, but I strongly suspect he knows the only way he can win is to outspend his opponent 10 to 1.
posted by Tevin at 1:27 PM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

Is there a reason to think it wouldn't be 48?

I think it would have to be. 67 to remove, which still means 21 Republicans need to vote against. I wasn't around for the Nixon era but I think partisanship has gotten worse since then, so it's going to be comparatively harder to do this and Dems will need to not be playing political games. Priority one has to be getting this incompetent fool out of power.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:27 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

Right now, the Resistance is hot and fired up about electing Democrats. That might not be the case under a Joe Republican administration.

As a member of the Resistance, I can assure you we're going to be fired up regardless. The Republican party and Trump are inextricably intertwined. The idea that you can remove Trump and return to the Republican party of yore is a fantasy.
posted by diogenes at 1:27 PM on May 17, 2017 [30 favorites]

Impeachnment requires a simple majority vote in the more Republican House, and 2/3rds of the Senate to convict.
The 25th amendment, if challenged by the President, requires 2/3rds in both the House and Senate.

So it is actually harder to achieve, as well as sneaky and underhanded. Basically, it makes no sense unless the President is in a coma or literally unable to understand a cable TV news cast.
posted by msalt at 1:28 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

As a member of the Resistance, I can assure you we're going to be fired up regardless.

Sorry, I didn't meant to disparage anyone's honor! To clarify, I meant, "Democratic Senators might well think their jobs and positions are safer under a Trump administration than under a non-Trump administration."
posted by corb at 1:30 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

Mike Pence != Joe Republican. Come on.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:31 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

Remember there was some talk here about how the Dems should not vote for his impeachment so that DJT remains a millstone around Republican Party's neck.

I was going to say, actually, that this would make sense if only a bare majority were needed (then it'd be perilously easy for Republicans to decry this as a partisan witch hunt with a couple misguided moderates throwing in with the Democrats), but with the two-thirds bar it would take a good chunk of the Republican caucus to remove.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:31 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

They stay.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:32 PM on May 17, 2017

Basically, it makes no sense unless the President is in a coma or literally unable to understand a cable TV news cast.

I think we've got the second one. Trump thinks his election crowds were bigger than Obama's and he claims to have invented the phrase "prime the pump." His advisors have to give him one page memos with pictures and NATO is already telling heads of state to keep their comments to 2-4 minutes when Trump is in the room, because that's all he can process. He's evil, yes, but he's also showing signs of cognitive decline.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 1:33 PM on May 17, 2017 [12 favorites]

They stay. Gaahrrrh. Well, I guess it's still better to be rid of Trump while dealing with them, then have both Trump and them.
posted by StrawberryPie at 1:34 PM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

Meanwhile, we now know Trump only wants to spend 15 minutes at Yad Vashem. That's just about enough time to walk from the entrance to the Hall of Remembrance (where the wreath-laying is done) and back, assuming they don't stop to look at anything. I just...what?
posted by SisterHavana at 1:34 PM on May 17, 2017 [15 favorites]

People aren't sure they want to give up a 2018 landslide in exchange for just getting Trump out of office.

People need to cough up a number of loved ones they're comfortable with losing under this current administration for the sake of a perceived edge in 2018 or 2020.

As has been said above (and I said in the last thread), we haven't seen a serious disaster or emergency yet. All of this has been self-inflicted, and it has been harmful enough. This asshole is shredding our alliances and our intelligence sources. Refugee visa processing is at a complete stop. Executive orders and appointments are doing real harm. We've already had a SEAL team go shoot up a village and accidentally-or-not kill a lot of children. Those cuts to things like the EPA, the State Department, the Coast Guard? That's not a joke. Those are matters of safety. And we haven't had a serious hurricane or other disaster yet.

Real fucking people will die. So anyone who thinks it's somehow better to leave this incompetent racist sexual assailant asshole needs to decide the body count they're comfortable with because it is that fucking serious.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:34 PM on May 17, 2017 [78 favorites]

Bannon etc. get sent back to hell though?
posted by Artw at 1:35 PM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]

Sorry, I didn't meant to disparage anyone's honor! To clarify, I meant, "Democratic Senators might well think their jobs and positions are safer under a Trump administration than under a non-Trump administration."

Maybe there are some Democratic Senators who are that gross. But I can't think of any offhand.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:35 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

he's also showing signs of cognitive decline.

That's not the point though. If he has his wits about him enough to object, then the 25th requires a 2/3 majority in both houses to stick.
posted by craven_morhead at 1:35 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

Genuine question: if Trump is removed from office and Pence becomes president, what happens to cabinet members like Sessions, Pruitt, etc.? Do they stay? Is there any chance they will be removed or will resign or something?

They serve at the pleasure of the president. Some may stay. Undoubtedly a good number will be shown the door.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:36 PM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]

FFS.

Trump to lunch with network anchors

President Donald Trump is set to have an off-the-record lunch with network anchors on Thursday, two sources with knowledge of the plans and a White House official confirmed.

The lunch is expected to cover Trump's upcoming foreign trip. But with bombshell reports about the Trump White House dropping nearly every day this week, the lunch is sure to cover more ground.

Presumably, he's going to demand their loyalty and ask that they lay off the negative coverage. Maybe he'll threaten to put them in jail for it too.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 1:37 PM on May 17, 2017 [55 favorites]

Genuine question: if Trump is removed from office and Pence becomes president, what happens to cabinet members like Sessions, Pruitt, etc.? Do they stay? Is there any chance they will be removed or will resign or something?

It's up to the new President, who has to figure out whether he wants to get new nominees through the confirmation process. Ford left most of the Cabinet intact, but replaced some. The Chief of Staff and lots of other non-Senate confirmed positions would likely be replaced by Pence with people more loyal to him, etc. But considering that Pence led the transition, and likely chose most of the Senate-confirmed appointees himself, I suspect we'd have the same cabinet.
posted by dis_integration at 1:39 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

US News & World Report is saying Sheriff Clarke has accepted the position and they also report that no Senate confirmation is needed. So it is a done deal.

Meanwhile, we now know Trump only wants to spend 15 minutes at Yad Vashem.

I read that yesterday and I was so appalled I literally sputtered. 15 minutes is long enough for a quick photo-op and nothing more. It is so obviously not important to him.

They serve at the pleasure of the president. Some may stay. Undoubtedly a good number will be shown the door.

But don't forget that Pence's replacements would also have to be confirmed by the Senate.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:40 PM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]

There's a famous photograph of Erdoğan’s adviser Yusuf Yerkel kicking a mourner who was being held down by security guys, in 2014 on the day after the Soma mine disaster in which more than 300 people died—the worst such disaster in Turkish history.

Googling appears to indicate that Yerkel never suffered any consequences and indeed even got a court to order the photo and related ones censored from the internet in Turkey because they negatively affected his reputation.

The video from Washington of guys in suits and ties kicking and stomping people lying on the ground is quite reminiscent of these earlier photos.
posted by XMLicious at 1:41 PM on May 17, 2017 [21 favorites]

In that news anchor luncheon, is Jake Tapper considered a news anchor? For the purposes of the luncheon, can he be? I would very much like to hear what from him what is done and said in that thing.
posted by Tevin at 1:41 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

President Donald Trump is set to have an off-the-record lunch with network anchors on Thursday, two sources with knowledge of the plans and a White House official confirmed.

uh does the administration understand that news anchors are not solely or even primarily in charge of the stories that they read on nightly news?
posted by murphy slaw at 1:41 PM on May 17, 2017 [11 favorites]

It's probably just a bunch of Fox and Sinclair fucks.
posted by Artw at 1:42 PM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

Way upthread already schroedinger asked for podcasts, so here goes from most left-y to center-ish:
Says Who? - mostly two people ranting about how crazy Trump and all the orbiting crazy is, with the occasional interview
The Weeds - Vox's podcast that's still semi-newsy, but with more of a policy/white paper focus
Slate's Political Gabfest - generally newsy unless it's a slow week (if only...)
Global Politico - interviews with an international political focus, usually with either Senators or foreign pols
Off Message - interviews from both sides of the aisle; they just had Rahm Emanuel

Between all those and the three Pod Save ___ podcasts, that should get you at least one a day.
posted by tautological at 1:42 PM on May 17, 2017 [23 favorites]

Presumably, he's going to demand their loyalty and ask that they lay off the negative coverage. Maybe he'll threaten to put them in jail for it too.

Then he'll be utterly surprised when they report on it. He's like Ralph Wiggum on the Easter egg hunt, but angry.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:42 PM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

President Donald Trump is set to have an off-the-record lunch with network anchors on Thursday,

Do they know they should probably eat a real meal before they go?
posted by bibliowench at 1:44 PM on May 17, 2017 [10 favorites]

Considering Seth Rich was a DNC employee, why wouldn't any prime suspect in his murder be 100% Pro-Trump?

There's a conspiracy theory that Russia had Seth Rich killed, either because he was the leaker and they were covering their tracks, or to create a plausible alternative theory other than Russian hacking for the DNC leaks, and dead men can't refute.

It's noteworthy that on Russian-manipulated places like /r/The_Donald, people are explicity saying that the Seth Rich conspiracy theory proves Russia didn't do the hacking.
posted by msalt at 1:45 PM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

It's noteworthy that on Russian-manipulated places like /r/The_Donald, people are explicity saying that the Seth Rich conspiracy theory proves Russia didn't do the hacking.

The U.S. state news service working harder to give the Russians an alibi than the Russians are. Strongman leadership, ladies and gentlemen.
posted by XMLicious at 1:49 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

It's noteworthy that on Russian-manipulated places like /r/The_Donald, people are explicity saying that the Seth Rich conspiracy theory proves Russia didn't do the hacking.

What's most amazing about the Seth Rich fake news is that it *originated* in /r/The_Donald, as far as I can tell, and stewed in there throughout the election, along with pizza gate, and only this week has gotten the extra legitimacy of a Fox News propaganda-blast. It's madness. Literally the lunatics running the asylum.
posted by dis_integration at 1:50 PM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]

Not counting the PR stuff clearly posted by someone else, the President hasn't tweeted since that one yesterday morning that ended in an ellipsis, Trump's usual method for linking multi-part tweets. I think someone finally catapulted ol Samsung into the North Lawn fountain.
posted by theodolite at 1:50 PM on May 17, 2017 [9 favorites]

If the networks had the slightest bit of integrity, they'd insist that Trump be on the record and on tape. He's done absolutely nothing to deserve an off-the-record interview, and he asks about jailing journalists, so he certainly shouldn't get any favors.

Some of these journalists have earned some limited trust from me. I'm confident that they're just going to exploit his misplaced comfort by leaking anything derogatory to their buddies.
posted by Coventry at 1:51 PM on May 17, 2017

He is an existential threat, not just to this nation, but all life on the planet.

I think you underestimate how robust and diverse Archaea are.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 1:51 PM on May 17, 2017 [18 favorites]

welp, here's today's profile in courage

GOP blocks House vote on independent Russia-Trump investigation

WASHINGTON — House Republicans blocked a vote Wednesday on legislation to create an independent commission to investigate Russian interference in the 2016 election.

A Democratic effort to force a vote failed, with only one Republican – Rep. Walter Jones of North Carolina – joining them in a procedural vote that would have allowed them to bring up the bill. But Democrats also launched a petition Wednesday that would allow them to force a vote on the bill at a later date if they get a majority of lawmakers to sign on.

“Today is a courage call for our Republican colleagues,” said Rep. Eric Swalwell of Calif., who co-authored the bill with Rep. Elijah Cummings of Maryland. “Can they — as we have done with past attacks against our country — can they put party aside, put our country first and unite with Democrats to say that never again will we tolerate an attack like this?”

posted by murphy slaw at 1:51 PM on May 17, 2017 [76 favorites]

welp, here's today's profile in courage

GOP blocks House vote on independent Russia-Trump investigation

You beat me to the punch. My favorite pull:

The bill’s 199 cosponsors include two Republicans – Jones and Rep. Justin Amash, of Michigan. Amash voted with his party to block bringing up the bill.

Just in case you thought Amash had given up his face-eating ways.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 1:54 PM on May 17, 2017 [61 favorites]

GOP blocks House vote on independent Russia-Turnip investigation
They totally don't give a shit. Let's see if anything changes when the dollar freefalls over the next quarter.

Please please please someone tell me that no actual serious humans are taking the Seth Rich nonsense seriously.
posted by aspersioncast at 1:55 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

Political Podcasts I listen to in addition to the ones mentioned above:

New Republic: Primary Concerns

The 45th (2 Dems, 1 Republican, all women and I think all minority religion.)

The Trump Scorecard (Just one guy but he does a quick sumary every Friday of everything Trump has done in a week.)

WaPo: Can He Do That?

HuffPo: So That Happened

The Relentless Picnic (Humor and deep, deep navel gazing. Not always politics.)
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:56 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

Genuine question: if Trump is removed from office and Pence becomes president, what happens to cabinet members like Sessions, Pruitt, etc.? Do they stay? Is there any chance they will be removed or will resign or something?

We have some recent-ish precedent for this. Ford kept almost the entirety of Nixon's cabinet at first. He did put in a new attorney general within the first 6 months because Nixon had run through 4 or 5 of them and the DoJ was a mess. There was a pretty major shakeup another 6 months later, but for the first year or so there was almost total continuity.

I'm also not particularly under the impression that Pence gives enough of a shit about the work of most government departments to care that they're controlled by incompetents, idiots, and thieves.
posted by Copronymus at 1:58 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

aspersioncast, I don't know about at the national level, but I think it's telling that Rich was a local and my office skews quite conservative. I overhear plenty of idle talk around, and I haven't heard even a murmur of anybody talking about that in hallways or elevators or anywhere else. The politics talk has dried up pretty hard in the last few months, actually, which suggests to me that a lot of people kind of just want to bury their heads in the sand until this all goes away.
posted by Sequence at 1:59 PM on May 17, 2017

Someone walk me through why Amash would vote no on his own bill, other than him trying to play both sides?
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 2:01 PM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

Someone walk me through why Amash would vote no on his own bill, other than him trying to play both sides?

The explanation I saw on reddit was that Amash voted against because as a sponsor he can then re-introduce it at a later time, as opposed to the bill getting squashed entirely. I don't know the procedures well enough to explain why that works, or if that is the truth in any way.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 2:04 PM on May 17, 2017 [18 favorites]

DHS really wants you to know that they have not announced (yet) that they are hiring Clarke or anyone.

In other news, it's after 5pm on the East Coast, and still no pee tape.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:06 PM on May 17, 2017 [16 favorites]

In the House you can only bring a motion to reconsider a Bill if you were on the side which won the initial vote. The "no" side in this case.
posted by Justinian at 2:06 PM on May 17, 2017 [34 favorites]

Way upthread already schroedinger asked for podcasts

(Not all purely Trump, but he's been getting a lot of coverage on them...)

The Dig Jacobin magazine, so v. left.
Trumpcast Slate Magazine, I think the Trump tweets read at the start of the show are [real], and those at the end [fake]. Like 64% sure.
538 Politics
BBC Global News From the world service, reportage rather than commentary, but often good depth on latest developments.
Politico Playbook Audio Briefing< 5mins of "just the facts maam" of Washington politics.
Partly Political UK based, snark and insight by the boatload.

And a couple with Zero (0) Trump to offset the panic attacks and despair bingeing on the above can cause.

People Fixing the World BBC again. Documentaries about people who are the polar opposite of Trump.
Gardners' Question Time Basically the audio equivalent of the best beta-blocker you ever scored.
posted by Buntix at 2:12 PM on May 17, 2017 [19 favorites]

DHS really wants you to know that they have not announced (yet) that they are hiring Clarke or anyone.

i am going to laugh my ass off if clarke shot his own foot off by pre-announcing his offer
posted by murphy slaw at 2:13 PM on May 17, 2017 [15 favorites]

Dave Pell explains why there is relentless bias against Donald Trump.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:21 PM on May 17, 2017 [13 favorites]

I don't see any bills or resolutions getting voted down in the House Floor Summary today. Do we know what the independent commission bill number is? Or are they trying to get a discharge petition? in which case they can try every week, I think.

I did see yesterday that Rep. Pascrell of NJ is going to introduce a privileged resolution, but I don't know what it is. He's been one of the tax return hunters.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 2:21 PM on May 17, 2017

Or are they trying to get a discharge petition? in which case they can try every week, I think.

The bill in question is HR 356. They are trying for a discharge petition. That process is complicated, as Chad Pergram just explained, except he hasn't learned how to thread his tweets.

The summary is that they need to wait until a committee has sat on the bill 30 days (done), then collect 218 signatures (so all Dems+25 Republicans would do it). Then it has to lay over for 7 legislative days before, and this is exactly the sort of absurd procedure only Congress could come up with, it is considered on the 2nd or 4th Monday of the month. What happens if the House is out on that day? Too bad, you have to wait. So that leaves June 12 or 26 or July 24th as the only dates in the next couple of months such a petition could be considered. Then, with all that somehow done, the Senate has to pass it and the President has to sign it.

In other words, don't hold your breath. If they can to 218 though, that will be a hell of a thing.
posted by zachlipton at 2:30 PM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]

Someone using a House of Representatives IP address deleted the Wikipedia blurb on @RepMarkWalker's duck ramp tweet
-- dailybeast white house correspondant Lachlan Markay

(screenshots included for extra lulz)
posted by murphy slaw at 2:33 PM on May 17, 2017 [13 favorites]

Then, with all that somehow done, the Senate has to pass it and the President has to sign it.

given his unerring talent for taking the action with the worst possible optics, trump will veto this, right?
posted by murphy slaw at 2:34 PM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

Michelle Kosinski, Senior Diplomatic Correspondent for CNN, just unloaded on Facebook (archive link) about RC Hammond, "communications advisor" at the State Department, who demanded to know her sources. And then:

Not sure what he was trying to accomplish here, but next came Hammond’s final attempt: threats.
That he would make sure NO ONE-- no one-- at the department would speak to me, EVER AGAIN, he proclaimed.
I asked Hammond to name one time he had ever shared information with me or responded to a single email I’ve ever sent him (this has been a problem here that has been discussed among journalists, and Hammond told me to my face two weeks ago a flat “no” when I asked him if he ever answered emails.)
“Well maybe there’s a reason for that,” he spat into the phone.
Me: “Ok and what would that be.”
Hammond: “WE don’t think you’re smart enough to HANDLE OUR information!!!!
So when you wonder why it seems information might be a bit—ahem—lacking, contradictory, or confusing coming from your own government, just recall the immortal words of RC Hammond:
“WE don’t think you’re SMART ENOUGH to HANDLE our information!!!!!”
And that should pretty much explain it.

posted by zachlipton at 2:37 PM on May 17, 2017 [91 favorites]

"The drip-drip of all this is beginning to pile on and a lot of folks are saying, even if nothing comes of it, does it take away the Trump agenda? Does it affect the foreign trip?"

Neil Cavuto said that. Neil Cavuto.
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:39 PM on May 17, 2017 [8 favorites]

more like SPLASH SPLASH SPLASH tho
posted by murphy slaw at 2:40 PM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]

When Trump leaves the country can we revoke his passport?
posted by zippy at 2:41 PM on May 17, 2017 [25 favorites]

Was just idly wondering how those people who donated $7.2 million to Donald Trump from January through March are feeling right now.

Cheated, I hope.

PS: in case you're wondering who might have done that, you can browse ( a ton of pages) here. (I can't find an easy and current-cycle donations-by-name search, but there is an OK one on the FEC site here.)

PS: Bonus fun, since there seem to be a lot of deleted tweets today, a reminder of ProPublica's "Politwoops," the deleted tweet tracker.
posted by martin q blank at 2:43 PM on May 17, 2017 [16 favorites]

“WE don’t think you’re SMART ENOUGH to HANDLE our information!!!!!”

"YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE ALTERNATIVE TRUTH!!!"
posted by ZenMasterThis at 2:44 PM on May 17, 2017 [11 favorites]

He thought he was the King of America
Where they pour Coca Cola just like vintage wine
Now I try hard not to become hysterical
But I'm not sure if I am laughing or crying
I wish that I could push a button
And talk in the past and not the present tense
And watch this hurtin' feeling disappear
Like it was common sense
It was a fine idea at the time
Now it's a brilliant mistake

- Elvis Costello
posted by davebush at 2:44 PM on May 17, 2017 [20 favorites]

via Scott Sharkey
WaPo: The president shat himself.
White House: The president would never shit himself.
Trump: I SHAT MYSELF ON PURPOSE

Every. Fucking. Day.

To which I add:
RYAN: The President has every right to shit himself and we stand by his decision.
MCCAIN: It is worrisome that the President shat himself, but I will not vote for a change of pants.
CONWAY: Why aren't we talking about the time that Hillary Clinton went into a restroom and urinated?
PUTIN: Donald, have some more ex-lax or we release the pee tapes.
posted by Cookiebastard at 2:45 PM on May 17, 2017 [132 favorites]

House Votes to Limit Powers of First Black Librarian of Congress

In a vote of 378 to 48, the House passed legislation to take power away from the current Librarian of Congress, Dr. Carla Hayden.

The legislation, H.R. 1695, was authored by House Judiciary Chairman Bob Goodlatte (D-Va.) and ranking member John Conyers (D-Mich.), would limit the powers of the librarian. It is expected to pass the Senate and be signed into law by President Trump. [...]

“This bill serves no purpose other than to take power away from the Librarian of Congress and give it to powerful lobbyists, who will have a major say in who runs the Copyright Office,” wrote Michael Masnick on TechDirt.com on April 26. “It’s a bad bill, and it’s a gift to Hollywood.”

The entertainment industry pushed hard for the passage of H.R. 1695. It’s likely that the selection of the Librarian of Congress will be the focus of attention of the power of the entertainment lobby moving forward now that senators will play a role in confirmation.

Bipartisanship! *spits*
posted by tonycpsu at 2:46 PM on May 17, 2017 [66 favorites]

more like SPLASH SPLASH SPLASH tho

sploosh?

Anyway maybe Cavuto is starting to buckle, but Tucker Carlson last night was running amazing interference.
posted by saturday_morning at 2:46 PM on May 17, 2017

Look, I've been having mini strokes or have some worse condition emerging that's already caused partial paralysis in my foot and may be about to get a lot worse--none of the candidate diagnoses are great, and a couple of them are terminal--so I may not have a whole lot of time left to see this one rich white guy finally get the kind of comeuppance so many of them probably deserve, so please hurry up and arrest or impeach him. It's not good for me stresswise to follow this news as closely or religiously as I'd like. Normally, I wouldn't make it all about me, but I might be dying here, so this once I feel entitled to make it about me, so please, please, please, let me get a chance to mark seeing Trump impeached/arrested off my bucket list. K thx. Bye.
posted by saulgoodman at 2:47 PM on May 17, 2017 [133 favorites]

About 4 hours ago, Fox News producer Meghan K. Welsh confirmed on Twitter that the Comey memo exists.

.@FoxNews now independently confirms existence of the Comey memo in which Trump asked him to end the Flynn investigation. H/t @JakeBGibson.

Also:

Sources close to Comey who are familiar with the memo, tell Fox's @JakeBGibson that yesterday's @nytimes reporting is accurate.

There's no sign of this on the actual Fox News website, but RedState has an article about it.
posted by msalt at 2:48 PM on May 17, 2017 [21 favorites]

Montana House election: the GOP is dumping last-minute money into Gianforte, right after Erick Erickson's claim that Gianforte's internal polling looks bad.

Probably-meaningless local anecdote: was at the nearest 1-horse town today. In November I saw a half-dozen Trump yard signs and maybe one Hillary sign. Today I saw a half-dozen Quist signs and zero for Gianforte.

I still think Quist has worse odds than Gianforte because darkest timeline etc, but it'll be close and enthusiasm on the ground for Gianforte is nil.
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:52 PM on May 17, 2017 [10 favorites]

It's got to the point for me where, now at nearly 11pm, I'm anxious when I go to bed because, when I check the BBC or Facebook tomorrow morning there will be another "surely this" event that's happened while I've been asleep. I can't keep up any more.
posted by essexjan at 2:53 PM on May 17, 2017 [10 favorites]

I go to sleep dreading the "N new comments" box on this thread. If I wake up and it's over 200, I hit things with my pillow.

Reports on twitter are that "big news" is coming shortly, so, *sigh*.
posted by zachlipton at 2:58 PM on May 17, 2017 [8 favorites]

I could tweet that Big News was coming shortly every 8 hours on a timer and be right most of the time. It doesn't take the Amazing Kreskin.
posted by Justinian at 3:00 PM on May 17, 2017 [15 favorites]

BREAKING: Deputy AG appointing special counsel to take over the Russia investigation; it's ex-FBI Director Robert Mueller
posted by zachlipton at 3:00 PM on May 17, 2017 [122 favorites]

Fiat justitia ruat caelum

Fiat justitia ruat cælum is a Latin legal phrase, meaning "Let justice be done though the heavens fall." The maxim signifies the belief that justice must be realized regardless of consequences.
posted by petebest at 3:01 PM on May 17, 2017 [19 favorites]

That does seem big news. If only I could go back in time and prevent myself from posting for 15 seconds.
posted by Justinian at 3:01 PM on May 17, 2017 [47 favorites]

Deputy AG appointing special counsel to take over the Russia investigation; it's ex-FBI Director Robert Mueller

Somebody tell me how to feel about this, I've gone numb
posted by schadenfrau at 3:02 PM on May 17, 2017 [10 favorites]

House majority leader to colleagues in 2016: ‘I think Putin pays’ Trump

A month before Donald Trump clinched the Republican nomination, one of his closest allies in Congress — House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy — made a politically explosive assertion in a private conversation on Capitol Hill with his fellow GOP leaders: that Trump could be the beneficiary of payments from Russian President Vladimir Putin.

“There’s two people I think Putin pays: Rohrabacher and Trump,” McCarthy (R-Calif.) said, according to a recording of the June 15, 2016 exchange, which was listened to and verified by The Washington Post. Rep. Dana Rohrabacher is a Californian Republican known in Congress as a fervent defender of Putin and Russia.

House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) immediately interjected, stopping the conversation from further exploring McCarthy’s assertion, and swore the Republicans present to secrecy.

It's on tape. WTF? These people are complicit in treason.
posted by zachlipton at 3:03 PM on May 17, 2017 [184 favorites]

So, like three days from "I don't feel we need to explore the special counsel option at this point" to HERE'S YOUR FABULOUS NEW SPECIAL COUNSEL, AMERICA!

I think I need a tankard of wine to soothe my whiplash.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:03 PM on May 17, 2017 [10 favorites]

I guess it's better than a poke in the eye with a blunt stick.
posted by Talez at 3:03 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

saulgoodman - that's horrible news, and please take care of yourself. I hope the best for you and that you get what you want.
posted by nubs at 3:03 PM on May 17, 2017 [118 favorites]

Ah. I see. That is the big news we were waiting for. I am too numb to manage anything other than my constant simmering background of howling rage.
posted by yasaman at 3:04 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

Breathe, people, breathe. For me, because I can't right now.

Best wishes, saulgoodman.
posted by Dashy at 3:05 PM on May 17, 2017 [12 favorites]

There are times when I take a break from the Mefi potus45 threads. And then there's Breaking News, so I come to find where it broke in the timeline here. It's fun seeing the scrollbar light up with mentions of [whatever]. "Ah, there's a big clump right there, that must be when Comey was fired."
posted by XtinaS at 3:05 PM on May 17, 2017 [8 favorites]

House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) immediately interjected, stopping the conversation from further exploring McCarthy’s assertion, and swore the Republicans present to secrecy.

Great, more people for Mueller's burgeoning suspect list! Please give everyone a cell and a White Russian on me, bartender!
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:06 PM on May 17, 2017 [11 favorites]

If you read on, Paul Ryan's spokesman denies that it happened, and McCarthy's spokesman calls it "absurd and false." Then they claim it was a joke after they were told that the Post has the receipts on tape. There's no shame.

I was sitting right there like a week ago when McCarthy was defending firing Comey and calling this all overblown. These people have been lying their asses off. They're all complicit.
posted by zachlipton at 3:07 PM on May 17, 2017 [109 favorites]

I'm gonna go with a tacit thumbs-up on Muller. He prosecuted Noriega and John Gotti, so he's got passing familiarity with gangster-type-people.

Both He and Comey threatened to resign if the domestic wiretapping stuff was found constitutional in 2004.

I think he's probably okay. He's at least probably on Comey's side, which seems to be at least "The enemy of my enemy..." territory.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 3:08 PM on May 17, 2017 [13 favorites]

OK so -- Robert Mueller. Former US Attorney. Deputy AG briefly and then FBI head from 2001 to 2013. Obama asked him to stay on 2 years past his normal 10-year term. He took at least somewhat of a stand against domestic wiretapping excesses during the Bush years.

Don't know if we could expect anything better, really. I'm happy with this.

edit: jinx
posted by saturday_morning at 3:08 PM on May 17, 2017 [19 favorites]

popcorn futures are up, way up
posted by entropicamericana at 3:09 PM on May 17, 2017 [8 favorites]

Mueller served in a number of Justice Dept. positions for republican and democratic administrations back to the reagan era. he preceded comey at FBI, 2001-2013.

this looks pretty legit at first glance.
posted by murphy slaw at 3:09 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

Surely, this.
posted by Tevin at 3:09 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

Mueller's a very interesting choice. Part of his career as an AG was spent going after white collar criminals and mafiosi. And he was FBI director during 9/11 and for a decade afterward.
posted by zarq at 3:10 PM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

Saulgoodman i am sending you positive vibes and best wishes for a good diagnosis and full recovery.
posted by OHenryPacey at 3:10 PM on May 17, 2017 [24 favorites]

Bad timing, Russia payroll tape. Bad timing.
posted by saturday_morning at 3:10 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) immediately interjected, stopping the conversation from further exploring McCarthy’s assertion, and swore the Republicans present to secrecy.

Holy Amazeballs! Does this make Impeachment proceedings less likely or more likely? I can't even process this.

“There’s two people I think Putin pays: Rohrabacher and Trump,” McCarthy (R-Calif.)
I mean for fuck's sake. They knew that Trump might be getting paid by Putin but they closed their eyes to it.

Worst Congress majority leadership[? Or Worst Congress majority leadership EVER?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:11 PM on May 17, 2017 [27 favorites]

saulgoodman, hope things improve and that you'll be okay. Take care of yourself.
posted by zarq at 3:11 PM on May 17, 2017 [19 favorites]

someone please tell me quickly what opinion I should have about the Mueller news

he has the scariest FBI face of all the faces
posted by queenofbithynia at 3:11 PM on May 17, 2017 [9 favorites]

Here's Alex Jones apologizing to Chobani yogurt and Twin Falls, Idaho for 36 seconds to round out your wednesday.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:12 PM on May 17, 2017 [14 favorites]

BREAKING: Deputy AG appointing special counsel to take over the Russia investigation; it's ex-FBI Director Robert Mueller

This seems to answer the earlier criticism about a Special Prosecutor forcing the investigation to start completely over, wasting a year. And it makes perfect sense -- why not just appoint someone not in the President's chain of command to take over the existing investigation?

I'm sure there are some technicalities about budget and such, but if Congress can zero out funding for programs they don't like (such as moving Guantanamo detainees to US prisons) they can certainly fund an independent guy appointed by the DOJ.
posted by msalt at 3:13 PM on May 17, 2017

There's a lot of very nervous WH staff making inquiries about legal representation right about now.
posted by chris24 at 3:13 PM on May 17, 2017 [21 favorites]

this is where i sheepishly declare that i'm going to pay way more attention to who's in the top spots at justice and the fbi from here out.
posted by murphy slaw at 3:13 PM on May 17, 2017 [10 favorites]

Mueller is a great choice. He is untouchable. If Trump goes after him even the Rs will have to condemn his tweet bullshit.
posted by Justinian at 3:14 PM on May 17, 2017 [52 favorites]

Given the situation, I think Mueller was best case scenario. It seems reasonable that he'll actually be interested in investigating illegality.
posted by Chrysostom at 3:14 PM on May 17, 2017 [19 favorites]

Yep. Aside from dream choices of Sally Yates or Preet Bharara, this is absolutely as good as we could realistically get.
posted by chris24 at 3:15 PM on May 17, 2017 [8 favorites]

They're going to say Comey and Mueller are deep-state cronies bent on keeping Trump from draining the swamp. Let's see if it works.
posted by theodolite at 3:16 PM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) immediately interjected, stopping the conversation from further exploring McCarthy’s assertion, and swore the Republicans present to secrecy.

The appointment of Mueller will take heat off of the White House for a moment, so now is the perfect time to demand the resignation of Paul Ryan (as Speaker, anyway) for obstruction of justice. Shouldn't be too hard to accomplish -- who actually likes that guy, anyway?
posted by msalt at 3:16 PM on May 17, 2017 [24 favorites]

For a week I've been wanting to watch my Netflix movie. But no. Every night reading the Trump thread.
posted by acrasis at 3:17 PM on May 17, 2017 [63 favorites]

Holy Amazeballs! Does this make Impeachment proceedings less likely or more likely? I can't even process this.

I don't think it helps the leadership stall on impeachment, but similarly, further investigations seem likely to lead to more revelations like that one, so it seems likely that they will continue to stall. The Republican leadership know their executive is filth, and they've known the whole time. They are in this cesspool deep.

I wanna hear the tape. I also want to see the RNC's emails--I bet they are a whole lot more colorful than the DNC's, and I would not be surprised if they contain a whole lot of comments along the lines of McCarthy's.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 3:18 PM on May 17, 2017 [21 favorites]

i guess that trump didn't manage to shatter rosenstein's dignity thoroughly enough.

wonder if trump's inner circle can clamp down on him hard enough to keep him from trying to fire him.
posted by murphy slaw at 3:18 PM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

Aside from dream choices of Sally Yates or Preet Bharara, this is absolutely as good as we could realistically get.

Preet Bharara seems to agree:

Having known him for years, I believe special counsel Mueller is a very good thing. He is one of the best -- independent and no-nonsense.
posted by jammer at 3:18 PM on May 17, 2017 [75 favorites]

so now is the perfect time to demand the resignation of Paul Ryan (as Speaker, anyway) for obstruction of justice

there wasn't an ongoing investigation at the time and he wasn't materially impeding one. let's not get ahead of ourselves. this is scandalous but probably not illegal.
posted by murphy slaw at 3:19 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

When initially asked to comment on the exchange, Brendan Buck, a spokesman for Ryan, said: “That never happened,” and Matt Sparks, a spokesman for McCarthy, said: “The idea that McCarthy would assert this is absurd and false.”

After being told that The Post would cite a recording of the exchange, Buck, speaking for the GOP House leadership, said: “This entire year-old exchange was clearly an attempt at humor. No one believed the majority leader was seriously asserting that Donald Trump or any of our members were being paid by the Russians. What’s more, the speaker and leadership team have repeatedly spoken out against Russia’s interference in our election, and the House continues to investigate that activity.”

So, never happened and absurd and false to "it was just a joke" in 5 seconds, that may be a landspeed record.
posted by Chrysostom at 3:20 PM on May 17, 2017 [61 favorites]

Rep. Al Green (D-TX) calls for Impeachment of President Trump

Let's get it on...
posted by msalt at 3:20 PM on May 17, 2017 [20 favorites]

so when can expect leaks from the WH about the cursing and shouting and loud televisions? another fifteen minutes?
posted by entropicamericana at 3:20 PM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

Chaffetz is saying this is a great choice, impeccable credentials. First a subpeona and now this? Not sure what made him do his job.

I'm now even more curious about Rosenstein's testimony on Thursday. Either this is him trying to make up for his part in firing Comey or could he testify that he was misled by Sessions as to the purpose of the memo? (Which would be incredibly foolish, but not implausible)
posted by TwoWordReview at 3:20 PM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

Man the only way this day could get better is if we weren't living under an insane fascist dictator with the power to destroy humanity on a whim
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:20 PM on May 17, 2017 [74 favorites]

so when can expect leaks from the WH about the cursing and shouting and loud televisions? another fifteen minutes?

at this point if you're in the continental US you can probably just stick your head out the window and point your ears eastward.
posted by murphy slaw at 3:21 PM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

Holy shit, Ryan and McCarthy denied the conversation, then changed their answers after being told about the tape.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:22 PM on May 17, 2017 [147 favorites]

There's a lot of very nervous WH staff making inquiries about legal representation right about now.

Hey, if they had listened to Lawrence O'Donnell, they'd have done it last night and beat the afternoon rush.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:22 PM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

I am so happy right now about special counsel Former Obama FBI Director being in charge of this investigation!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:22 PM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

I honestly think the chances of Trump eventually resigning just went to 50%. An impeccable/untouchable SC investigating him? Trump's so dirty and knows it. He was willing to risk losing the election to avoid showing his taxes. He was willing to obstruct justice to hide what whatever connections or dirtiness he and/or Flynn have with Russia. He has a habit of going BK and walking away. He's miserable. He'll try to break Mueller and coopt the investigation, but assuming that fails, he'll try to slither away like the snake he is.
posted by chris24 at 3:23 PM on May 17, 2017 [13 favorites]

this is good news for john mccain!
posted by murphy slaw at 3:24 PM on May 17, 2017 [11 favorites]

wonder if trump's inner circle can clamp down on him hard enough to keep him from trying to fire [Rosenstein].

If Trump does that, boom, game over.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:26 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

All we need is Mitch McConnell and the entire Republican party leadership will be on tape covering up treason.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:26 PM on May 17, 2017 [9 favorites]

So, never happened and absurd and false to "it was just a joke" in 5 seconds, that may be a landspeed record.

Follow-up question: Does Speaker Ryan find it necessary to stop the conversation and swear the room to secrecy after jokes regularly?
posted by nubs at 3:26 PM on May 17, 2017 [126 favorites]

Mueller looks like Sam The Eagle who's just been told a joke he doesn't quite get. In other words, he looks like Sam The Eagle.
posted by Optamystic at 3:27 PM on May 17, 2017 [46 favorites]

so now is the perfect time to demand the resignation of Paul Ryan (as Speaker, anyway) for obstruction of justice
there wasn't an ongoing investigation at the time and he wasn't materially impeding one. let's not get ahead of ourselves. this is scandalous but probably not illegal.
The standard for remaining as Speaker of the House is higher than "not indictable." It's a leadership position. Speaker Jim Wright was forced to resign over book sales (as backdoor political contributions) that weren't illegal either, but smelled bad.

And of course, if discussions like this hadn't been squelched, an investigation likely would have started.
posted by msalt at 3:28 PM on May 17, 2017 [12 favorites]

Will Mueller get bodyguards? One can only hope.

These people are lucky. If it were up to me, the lot of them would be rounded up and horsewhipped live on worldwide television as it is, forget about impeachment or 25th-ing. I mean, look at this shit! We know how much of the entire WH and the cabinet are complicit, including the man's children; how many members of Congress are aiding and abetting this man also besides Ryan, Hatch, and McConnell? For how long would all the trials required last, FFS?

saulgoodman, I wish you healing and peace, even if the above paragraph isn't exactly peaceful.
posted by droplet at 3:28 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

The Washington Post is slapping the receipts down hard on the table. Here's a transcript.
posted by zachlipton at 3:28 PM on May 17, 2017 [102 favorites]

Who was taping that conversation with Ryan & Friends? And as glad as I am that the tape exists, I find myself wondering why people record potential criminal conspiracies so often.
posted by xyzzy at 3:28 PM on May 17, 2017 [10 favorites]

Follow-up question: Does Speaker Ryan find it necessary to stop the conversation and swear the room to secrecy after jokes regularly?

Only if Mike Pence is present. [Margaret Mead voice] The joke-telling rituals of this tribe are extremely intricate and arcane [/MMv].
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:28 PM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

T.D. Strange: "All we need is Mitch McConnell and the entire Republican party leadership will be on tape covering up treason."

At this rate, I would not be surprised to see something like that leak.
posted by Chrysostom at 3:29 PM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

“There’s two people I think Putin pays: Rohrabacher and Trump,” McCarthy (R-Calif.) said, according to a recording of the June 15, 2016 exchange, which was listened to and verified by The Washington Post. Rep. Dana Rohrabacher is a Californian Republican known in Congress as a fervent defender of Putin and Russia.

House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) immediately interjected, stopping the conversation from further exploring McCarthy’s assertion, and swore the Republicans present to secrecy.

I'm posting this after someone else posted it because I think it is of historical significance, and certain shitlords are going down
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:29 PM on May 17, 2017 [80 favorites]

Will Mueller get bodyguards? One can only hope.

Don't forget the mandatory food taster.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:29 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

re: old scaryface Mueller: he didn't have the scary face ten years ago! he grew it after he left. he has those eyebrows to scare the truth out of a man, where Comey just has a smirk and the inherent laziness of a man ten feet tall. I still say Trump mainly fired Comey because he was just so mad at being talked down to literally as well as figuratively.
posted by queenofbithynia at 3:30 PM on May 17, 2017 [23 favorites]

Jesus! I just had to drive home! How does this keep happening?
posted by Sophie1 at 3:30 PM on May 17, 2017 [37 favorites]

...and they broke out the "just joking" defense. Good lord, the end of the insanity keeps getting further away.
posted by azpenguin at 3:31 PM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

Jesus! I just had to drive home! How does this keep happening?

Drive back so we can skip forward to the resignation.
posted by jaduncan at 3:32 PM on May 17, 2017 [67 favorites]

“There’s two people I think Putin pays: Rohrabacher and Trump,”

As a former resident of the California 48th, may I just add: fuck Dana Rohrabacher forever. He is a crazy douchebag fascist. He has always been a crazy douchebag fascist. Everyone who votes for him is a moron.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:33 PM on May 17, 2017 [23 favorites]

I'm really not understanding why the idea that the Russians hacked the DNC and pay Trump and Rohrabacher would be funny. I mean, the transcript says "laughter" a lot, but this is funny why?

At best, at absolute best, they were treating national security as a joke. At worst, they're complicit.
posted by zachlipton at 3:33 PM on May 17, 2017 [24 favorites]

Ryan: What's said in the family stays in the family.

Quoted for schadenfreude.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:33 PM on May 17, 2017 [37 favorites]

I can't stop giggling.

Please be this, surely.

Please?
posted by Tevin at 3:34 PM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]

I really need to go to the grocery store but I'm legit concerned that in the half hour that I'm gone there'll be some kind of ridiculous catastrophe and I'll have 400 new comments to slog through.
posted by palomar at 3:34 PM on May 17, 2017 [43 favorites]

The scope of that letter appointing Mueller is expansive, any links between Russia and "individuals associated with the campaign of Donald Trump" plus, "any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation".
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:35 PM on May 17, 2017 [61 favorites]

To the MeFites who napped this afternoon: you have the thanks of a grateful nation.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:36 PM on May 17, 2017 [99 favorites]

“No leaks, alright?,” Ryan said, adding: “This is how we know we’re a real family here.”
“That’s how you know that we’re tight,” Scalise said.
“What’s said in the family stays in the family,” Ryan added.

Seriously, who the fuck do these guys think they are?
posted by H. Roark at 3:36 PM on May 17, 2017 [47 favorites]

But of course: "Robert Mueller, new special counsel on Russia, has been a law partner at WilmerHale of Jamie Gorelick, who represents Ivanka & Jared."

First Lieberman and now Mueller? Surely there are lawyers who aren't connected to the Trump family?
posted by zachlipton at 3:36 PM on May 17, 2017 [11 favorites]

I keep wondering if I should be stocking up on canned goods, because the worst case scenario is that this ends with the government collapsing.
posted by zarq at 3:37 PM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

Talking points for asking your Rep to come out against Ryan and McCarthy out:

- Paul Ryan and Keven McCarthy must resign their leadership positions and/or their House seats for dereliction of duty.

- The WaPo has heard a tape of them suggesting that Trump has been paid by Vladimir Putin

- They conspired to keep their inside knowledge from the American People in order to put a man compromised by a hostile nation into the Oval Office

- Representative must call for their immediate resignation for failing the American People in such a grotesque fashion

- Ryan and McCarthy are completely unfit to lead the House
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 3:37 PM on May 17, 2017 [77 favorites]

Mueller also rebuilt FBI post 9/11, so has a stake in the whole "seriously, stop fucking up national security" thing that Trump is doing.
posted by mrzarquon at 3:37 PM on May 17, 2017 [11 favorites]

Seriously, who the fuck do these guys think they are?

They think they're a cabal of low-level thugs and goons who somehow managed to seize control of the most powerful country in the world. And they are.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:37 PM on May 17, 2017 [15 favorites]

The Washington Post is slapping the receipts down hard on the table. Here's a transcript.

Reading the transcript, it does in fact sound like they're joking (look for when Laughter happens), but its hard to parse whether they're laughing because they know its true, laughing because they think its an outrageous thing to say, or because of some combination of the two. Joking doesn't mean they didn't mean it. One of the main sources of comedy is identifying truth (which is why comedy leans progressive, frankly).

So its possible that they were joking AND that they were speaking their actual beliefs at the same time.

tl;dr - to quote Excommunicated Cardinal "Paul Ryan and Keven McCarthy must resign their leadership positions and/or their House seats dereliction of duty."
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:38 PM on May 17, 2017 [36 favorites]

WilmerHale has like a thousand attorneys or something. I think it's a thin connection. There are only so many law firms of that size.
posted by Sequence at 3:40 PM on May 17, 2017 [8 favorites]

I keep wondering if I should be stocking up on canned goods, because the worst case scenario is that this ends with the government collapsing.

That's been the worst case scenario for a while now, so, you know, go for it.
posted by vibrotronica at 3:40 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

My wife points out that Mueller and Watergate special prosecutor Archibald Cox both went to elite prep school St. Paul's.

Connect the dots, people!
posted by Chrysostom at 3:42 PM on May 17, 2017 [11 favorites]

Can we start referring to the whole thing as the Russia Treason or something? Just so we smear them all with it? Most people won't look into more than the name, but that name will be stamped on every Republican forehead.
posted by schadenfrau at 3:42 PM on May 17, 2017 [8 favorites]

“No leaks, alright?,” Ryan said, adding: “This is how we know we’re a real family here.”
“That’s how you know that we’re tight,” Scalise said.
“What’s said in the family stays in the family,” Ryan added.

Seriously, who the fuck do these guys think they are?

Who was it who suggested the term should be Omerta?

10 points to their house, in any case.
posted by jaduncan at 3:43 PM on May 17, 2017 [17 favorites]

They're going to say Comey and Mueller are deep-state cronies bent on keeping Trump from draining the swamp. Let's see if it works.

The 27% MAGAsshats would say this under any circumstances. That's one of many reasons why they're bugfuck nuts.
posted by delfin at 3:43 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

I know I can't be the only one jinxing it, but surely this...?

I'm not even sure which this I'm talking about today - take your pick, but surely this...
posted by MattWPBS at 3:43 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

How are events unfolding in such a surreal way that the appointment of a Special Counsel shortly after the Deputy Attorney General in charge of appointing such a Special Counsel stated he would not do so, is the less significant news?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:44 PM on May 17, 2017 [21 favorites]

It has been _0_ hours since the last Trump disaster
posted by oulipian at 3:44 PM on May 17, 2017 [100 favorites]

> “You cannot get the words ‘straight arrow’ out of your head. He didn’t try to be elegant or fancy; he just put the cards on the table.”

“He loved being on the ground,” says his colleague Lynn Leibovitz. “His only way of politicking was to be as decent, hard-working, and upstanding as he could be and let the work stand for itself.”

I'm really liking this Mueller fellow. "The Ultimate G-Man," indeed.
posted by porpoise at 3:44 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

CNN just reported: Mueller visited Rosenstein's office the day after Comey was fired.
posted by pjenks at 3:45 PM on May 17, 2017 [48 favorites]

The scope of that letter appointing Mueller is expansive

Yep! He's also specifically empowered to investigate "any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. § 600.4(a)," which means "federal crimes committed in the course of, and with intent to interfere with, the Special Counsel's investigation, such as perjury, obstruction of justice, destruction of evidence, and intimidation of witnesses."

And he has discretionary authority to prosecute.
posted by Iridic at 3:45 PM on May 17, 2017 [18 favorites]

Folks, it's gonna be a long night, and I need to ask everyone to try not to overburden the thread with small talk. The best place to go flail helplessly is Chat. Thanks!
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 3:46 PM on May 17, 2017 [14 favorites]

What I really want to know is who is holding on to incriminating tapes of Republicans saying stupid things, and do they have more? Because I think it's a fairly reasonable guess that this leak came from someone on the right.
posted by zachlipton at 3:46 PM on May 17, 2017 [8 favorites]

Bradd Jaffy, Senior News Editor of NBC:

DOJ tells NBC News the White House was informed of the special counsel decision after the order was already signed this afternoon

DAG going full Ozymandias on Trump's ass.

"Do you seriously think I'd explain my master-stroke if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting its outcome? I did it thirty-five minutes ago."
posted by Freon at 3:47 PM on May 17, 2017 [107 favorites]

I have to agree about the transcript of the Ryan recording. If I were to read it without bias, it does sound to me mostly like a bunch of douchebags who don't deserve their jobs "joking" around in the same way that frat bros joke about rape.

In other words, crass and shameful, and certainly not becoming of their office at all. But it doesn't seem like iron-clad evidence of complicity to me.

I'm sure it's out there somewhere. This just doesn't feel like it.
posted by jammer at 3:47 PM on May 17, 2017 [12 favorites]

I wonder if we'll ever get a clear picture of whether Rosenstein was getting his ducks in a row and denying that he was seeking a special prosecutor so that Trump and Sessions wouldn't be able interfere or whether recent events genuinely made him change his mind.
posted by vathek at 3:47 PM on May 17, 2017 [16 favorites]

Chris Hayes pointed out on Twitter that the dateline in the WaPo piece was Kiev.
posted by TwoWordReview at 3:49 PM on May 17, 2017 [8 favorites]

CNN just reported: Mueller visited Rosenstein's office the day after Comey was fired.

DOJ tells NBC News the White House was informed of the special counsel decision after the order was already signed this afternoon.

MSNBC just reported a bit ago that Paul Ryan was also told after the fact.

Not gonna lie, I'm starting to feel some love for Rod "Fuck Your Firing Justification" Rosenstein. I may send him an Edible Arrangement.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:50 PM on May 17, 2017 [36 favorites]

If I were to read it without bias, it does sound to me mostly like a bunch of douchebags who don't deserve their jobs "joking" around in the same way that frat bros joke about rape.

In the sense that they know that it's a huge problem that exists, that their own people are totally complicit, and that even if they don't do it personally (and they're not saying they don't) they're just joking so what's the big deal?
posted by OverlappingElvis at 3:50 PM on May 17, 2017 [12 favorites]

"Hot" Rod Rosenstein, Ace Attorney
posted by theodolite at 3:51 PM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

But of course: "Robert Mueller, new special counsel on Russia, has been a law partner at WilmerHale of Jamie Gorelick, who represents Ivanka & Jared."

Ivanka Trump's expanded White House role raises ethical issues: "The ethics expert noted approvingly that Ivanka Trump engaged Wilmer Cutler Pickering Hale and Dorr, the same legal services used by the secretary of state, Rex Tillerson, former head of ExxonMobil, to handle issues of conflict of interest. Kushner also used the DC-based lawyers to manage his potential conflicts of interest with his family business after taking the role of adviser in the Trump administration."

WilmerHale is a big, big firm, so let's see if Mueller worked with Gorelick on the ethical conflicts *cough* of Ivanka, Jared, and Rexxon. My betting is that Rosenstein would have taken that into consideration and then some.
posted by Doktor Zed at 3:52 PM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

Seriously, who the fuck do these guys think they are?

Michael Corleone. But they're really just a bunch of Fredos.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:52 PM on May 17, 2017 [9 favorites]

Here's another really odd bit from that transcript of Ryan and McCarthy:

McCarthy: The Russians hacked the DNC and got the opp research that they had on Trump.

McCarthy: laughs

[Crosstalk]

Ryan: The Russian’s hacked the DNC...

McHenry: ...to get oppo...

Ryan: ...on Trump and like delivered it to...to who?

[Unintelligible]

McCarthy: There’s...there’s two people, I think, Putin pays: Rohrabacher and Trump...[laughter]...swear to God.

Ryan: This is an off the record...[laughter]...NO LEAKS...[laughter]...alright?!

[Laughter]

Ryan: This is how we know we’re a real family here.

Scalise: That’s how you know that we’re tight.

[Laughter]

Ryan: What’s said in the family stays in the family.

The bolded section is extremely disturbing--after discussing Russian propaganda and cyber disinfo ops in Ukraine, they start LAUGHING about the DNC being hacked and getting all shruggy about where that info went or why the hack took place.

They thought that Russian interference in our election was funny, at the time it was happening. Then proceeded, in jest or not, to suggest that Vladimir Putin was actively paying/intervening for their own candidate.

Ryan, McCarthy, Scalise, and the whole lot are so caught up in the Russian affair. I think they know that Trump will name names--their names--, if he goes down. Not one of these men is fit to be a leader in any part of our government.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 3:53 PM on May 17, 2017 [89 favorites]

As great as this news is, let's take a second to appreciate how carefully Rosenstein had to thread the needle to make it happen.

If Sessions hadn't been caught red-handed lying and forced to recuse himself, or if the White House had been less disorganized and appointed a new FBI director or deputy AG who ranked over Rosenstein or indeed a new AG, or if Trump hadn't openly admitted firing Comey because of the Russia probe in a tweet, or if he hadn't tried to talk Comey into dropping the Flynn probe, or if Comey hadn't carefully written memos and distributed them in such a way that even Fox News had to confirm their existence, while simultaneously hiding those memos from anyone at DOJ --

this wouldn't have been possible. We're still not out of the woods now, but it was a 1 in 10 shot that we even got to this point.
posted by msalt at 3:55 PM on May 17, 2017 [41 favorites]

OK, this isn't the bit in the transcript that is explosive, but jeezus it jumps out for me - they discuss the fact that what is happening in the Ukraine is a massive propaganda war designed to turn the country against itself and that Russia is extending that throughout Europe...but they don't really seem to connect the dots to the fact that the Russian hacking against the DNC might just be an extension of the same strategy. Or if they did connect the dots, they think it's funny rather than horrifying that Russia is doing this to the US:

Ryan: So he’s saying they’re doing this throughout Europe. So, uh…

[Unintelligible]

Ryan: This is, this isn’t just about Ukraine.

Rodgers: So, yeah, it is a, um…[unintelligible]…a way...it’s really a messaging…you
know…they are…it’s a propaganda war.

Ryan: Russia is trying to turn Ukraine against itself.

Rodgers: Yes. And that’s…it’s sophisticated and it’s, uh…

Ryan: Maniacal.

Rodgers: Yes.

Ryan: And guess…guess who’s the only one taking a strong stand up against it? We are.

Rodgers: We’re not…we’re not…but, we’re not…

McCarthy: [unintelligible]…I’ll GUARANTEE you that’s what it is.

[Unintelligible]

McCarthy: The Russians hacked the DNC and got the opp research that they had on Trump.

McCarthy: laughs
posted by nubs at 3:56 PM on May 17, 2017 [24 favorites]

We all assumed he was talking about Hillary last October, but it's now clear he was talking to himself in the mirror. Literally Trump's Mirror.

@realDonaldTrump
If I win-I am going to instruct my AG to get a special prosecutor to look into your situation bc there's never been anything like your lies.
posted by chris24 at 3:57 PM on May 17, 2017 [35 favorites]

New York Post reporter states (twitter) that the investigation will now go silent and will "take years."

Even if that's true, which it could be, Trump's not going to be able to handle any of this, I don't think. We're in for some bonkers, bonkers days ahead.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:57 PM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

Chris Hayes pointed out on Twitter that the dateline in the WaPo piece was Kiev.

I'm skeptical here because isn't there just a simpler explanation? The reporter is in Kiev researching an unrelated story (possibly Trump-related, but not about this tape) and filed from there?

I can maybe believe that the bit about Putin paying Trump is funny-not-funny. The part that's an outright abdication of any responsibility for national security is what comes before, when they treat Russia hacking the DNC as a laugh line.
posted by zachlipton at 3:58 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

We've already had a SEAL team go shoot up a village and accidentally-or-not kill a lot of children.

"Tak[ing] out their families" is part of the MAGA promise.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:01 PM on May 17, 2017 [9 favorites]

@arjunsethi81
Special. Prosecutor. Can. Subpoena. Trump's. Tax. Returns. #RobertMueller

@TheRickWilson
This is unspinnably bad for Trump.
Mueller is serious, and a good man. This also signals that the FBI isn't playing games.

@HeerJeet
The single biggest factor preserving American democracy in 2017? Donald Trump is a fucking moron.
posted by chris24 at 4:02 PM on May 17, 2017 [81 favorites]

Mueller reportedly has hiring authority. So, can he hire Preet Bharara as a top lieutenant to help him on this investigation?
posted by msalt at 4:02 PM on May 17, 2017 [16 favorites]

So, can he hire Preet Bharara as a top lieutenant to help him on this investigation?

Please. And Sally Yates.
posted by chris24 at 4:03 PM on May 17, 2017 [11 favorites]

This feels like the LOTR clip of the moment
posted by nubs at 4:04 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

No on Bharara and Yates. As qualified as they are, no one that can be accused or falsely accused of being out for revenge can be on the investigation.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:05 PM on May 17, 2017 [42 favorites]

"any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation".

Which could easily include RNC internal e-mails if, hypothetically, a taped conversation with Republican leadership hushing up a discussion about Russian election interference and payments to Trump should surface.
posted by Candleman at 4:08 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

Politico: Conservatives begin to whisper: President Pence: The still-far-fetched proposition of removing Trump has increasing appeal to Republicans who are growing weary of defending Trump and are alarmed by his conduct in office. But such whispers are cringeworthy for Pence and his aides, who have made an art of not upstaging the mercurial president. Pence’s press secretary declined to comment for this article.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:08 PM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

Politico: Trump turns to ex-campaign aides as scandals pile up

President Donald Trump, frustrated by his aides’ handling of the multiple scandals engulfing the White House, is turning to the comfort of his old campaign advisers.

Former officials including Jason Miller, David Bossie and Corey Lewandowski have slid back into the president’s group of advisers as Trump has chafed at the steady stream of damaging leaks and critical blind quotes that have flowed out of the West Wing.
...
And some wonder whether nostalgia is driving Trump’s contact with his former advisers.

"It's less about bringing back old campaign aides and more about missing the days when he trusted his staff," said one close adviser.

posted by zachlipton at 4:09 PM on May 17, 2017 [9 favorites]

Rereading the WaPo article, can't help noticing that the wording in this statement...

Ken Grubbs, a spokesman for Rohrabacher, said the congressman has been a consistent advocate of “working closer with the Russians to combat radical Islamism. The congressman doesn’t need to be paid to come to such a necessary conclusion.”

...doesn't say that Rohrabacher wasn't paid. He's better at his job than Ryan and McCarthy's spokespeople, who both went for the reflexive Trumpian lie only to be immediately caught by the "and we have tape" gotcha.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 4:12 PM on May 17, 2017 [12 favorites]

Ryan: Russia is trying to turn Ukraine against itself.

Rodgers: Yes. And that’s...it’s sophisticated and it’s, uh...

Ryan: Maniacal.

Rodgers: Yes.

Ryan: And guess...guess who’s the only one taking a strong stand up against it? We are.

Rodgers: We’re not...we’re not...but, we’re not

It's the last line that sticks out to me. Ryan is trying to say they're taking a stand against Russia using propaganda to control popular sentiment . And Rodgers sounds a little sad-- as though he thinks the GOP should be taking a hard line against Russia's use of propaganda to further their agenda but the GOP really isn't. And in fact as we know the GOP would go on to use Russia's propaganda to win the election.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:12 PM on May 17, 2017 [28 favorites]

Two thoughts on this roller coaster of a week (yeah, it's only Wednesday… ):

1. Is this, like, the earliest an official investigation has been launched into a new presidential administration? I'm torn between: So much winning. And: Well oiled machine.

2. Everyone should be talking up the prospect of President Pence. Guaranteed to drive Trump to paroxysms of anger.
posted by RedOrGreen at 4:13 PM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

Sounds like there's a little boy who needs an airplane hangar full of red hats.
posted by davebush at 4:13 PM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]

I look forward to this time next week, when Trump fires Mueller and the GOP shrugs its shoulders and says "obviously not ideal if true but he is technically allowed to fire him and let's reserve judgement until we have all the facts"
posted by triggerfinger at 4:13 PM on May 17, 2017 [10 favorites]

Somebody should ask Rohrabacher if Ryan and McCarthy are still on his Christmas Card list.

---------------
Maybe I'll just ask him myself on Facebook.
posted by notyou at 4:14 PM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]

2. Everyone should be talking up the prospect of President Pence.

I am certain I saw something somewhere in one of these threads that Pence is now complicit in something (maybe obstruction of justice?) and would also go down. Does anyone remember this, and even better, have some kind of citation? I'm thinking that in a normal world (where things happen the way they should), we would be looking at a President Hatch.
posted by triggerfinger at 4:17 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

Politico: Republicans get radio silence from Trump amid growing crisis

Sen. John McCain stood up in front of the media Tuesday night and compared President Donald Trump's daily scandals to Watergate and Iran-Contra.

And no one from the White House bothered to call up the Arizona Republican afterward and check in with him.

"I'm going to wait by the phone," McCain said dryly Wednesday.

The White House isn't speaking to Congressional Republicans at all, and with nobody bothering to coordinate a message, they're not going to go out on a limb to defend him, not when Comey could testify soon and blow everything up.
posted by zachlipton at 4:17 PM on May 17, 2017 [17 favorites]

Not gonna lie, I'm starting to feel some love for Rod "Fuck Your Firing Justification" Rosenstein. I may send him an Edible Arrangement.

We've been wondering who were the players who were going to step up and be the heroes. Yates led the way, but it's the dudes who will get the loudest accolades, probably.
posted by notyou at 4:18 PM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

Rosenstein gave Mueller prosecutorial authority meaning he doesn't have to go through the AG. That means, as triggerfinger says, there is one and only one way left for Trump to stop the train; firing Mueller. He'd be impeached if he did that.
posted by Justinian at 4:19 PM on May 17, 2017 [31 favorites]

someone please tell me quickly what opinion I should have about the Mueller news

he has the scariest FBI face of all the faces

He looks more like Robert Stack than Robert Stack did.
posted by EatTheWeek at 4:20 PM on May 17, 2017 [38 favorites]

MetaFilter: Pedantry:

MetaFilter: Pedantry: Informative

I'll be at the bar having a beer with my friend Norm.
posted by srboisvert at 4:23 PM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

Only the DAG can fire Mueller, and only for cause, with notice to Congress. Special Counsel regs have some teeth.

28 CFR Part 600 - GENERAL POWERS OF SPECIAL COUNSEL
posted by chris24 at 4:24 PM on May 17, 2017 [24 favorites]

I'm thinking that in a normal world (where things happen the way they should), we would be looking at a President Hatch.

Be careful what you wish for, because the Presidential line of succession keeps going long after that.

President Mnuchin. President SESSIONS. President DEVOS.
posted by delfin at 4:25 PM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]

“Say you sue me because you claim my dog bit you,” he said. “Well now, this is my defense: My dog doesn’t bite. And second, in the alternative, my dog was tied up that night. And third, I don’t believe you really got bit. And fourth, I don’t have a dog.”

- the late Racehorse Haynes, famed criminal defense attorney.

Sounds like that's what Ryan et al are trying for.
posted by orrnyereg at 4:25 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

I read that Trump can't fire Mueller and only the DAG can. So he would have to fire Rosenstein and find an DAG that would fir him
posted by Jalliah at 4:26 PM on May 17, 2017

I'll just be here crossing my fingers that splash damage from a hit to Rohrabacher's career nails his buddy Steve King too. Ever since they went palling around together to visit Le Pen I've had them both pegged as knee deep in the Russian mess (though not necessarily paid, King especially seems like he'd be a true believer in the Russia as shining white christian city on a hill line of thought).
posted by jason_steakums at 4:27 PM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

Only the DAG can fire Mueller, and only for cause, with notice to Congress. Special Counsel regs have some teeth.

Right, he'd have to do it in a roundabout way. You know who tried to do that? Hint: He was (going to be) impeached for it!
posted by Justinian at 4:27 PM on May 17, 2017 [10 favorites]

We've been wondering who were the players who were going to step up and be the heroes. Yates led the way, but it's the dudes who will get the loudest accolades, probably.

Sally Yates is and ever has been the biggest badass of them all because she stood up repeatedly and did the right thing with ZERO political pressure and NO media prodding to make her. And then she looked those Congressional bastards right in the eye and did not flinch while cutting them down to size. Why? Because it was her fucking job.

I've always been feeling the love for Yates. I'm starting to feel it for Rosenstein because until now, it was uncertain whether or not he'd be a weaselly little lickspittle pawn, but it's starting to seem like he's similar to the other good Justice Dept. people. This is really like the AG equivalent of the Comey Valentine. "I nod at you agreeably as you decide I'm your lapdog, all the while quietly sharpening my prosecutorial knives."
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:28 PM on May 17, 2017 [127 favorites]

The bigger story about the Ryan tape is that it was leaked now. Whoever had it has been sitting on it. So they now must feel that this is the right time to go after Ryan.

This is the bigger story.
posted by Jalliah at 4:29 PM on May 17, 2017 [133 favorites]

So I'm wondering how long the twitter silence from Trump will last. I'm sure he has been told how very bad this apt. of Mueller means for him trying to keep all of his dirty little secrets hidden from the public-- including his tax returns. He has tomorrow and then Friday he will be stuck on a plane with everyone babysitting him every moment. Don't forget that Friday nights when Ivanka and Jared took off were when he has had some of biggest tweet tantrums. So tonight he has all night to worry and stew and swear and rage. I wonder if he will be able to scare them into giving him his phone so he can "defend" himself?

President DEVOS.

Oh my god.

he would have to fire Rosenstein and find an DAG that would fir him

Just so we are clear-- that is exactly what Nixon did.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:30 PM on May 17, 2017 [30 favorites]

I'll just be here crossing my fingers that splash damage from a hit to Rohrabacher's career nails his buddy Steve King too.

Seriously, the fact that Rohrabacher has had his seat for so long is just revolting. It is not for nothing that McCarthy tarred him and Twitler with the same brush. And yeah, King is scum, too. Ugh.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:30 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

There is likely to be a great bond of trust between the FBI investigators and Mueller, and crucially no agency/investigation pissing match regarding sharing information as he's still essentially an agency man. He's also investigating Trump, a man who recently pissed off 99% of the FBI. Mueller also has a history of working with the CI team, the CIA and FinCEN, all of whom appear to have trusted him.

Mueller also presumably throught enough of Comey to endorse him as a successor (back when that kind of professional opinion mattered). Those memos are going to be taken extremely seriously.

It's all the basis of quite a robust investigation, and against people who are likely to be a lot easier to pressure than, say, organised crime. The basis of some of this is Flynn just taking directly bank transferred money from foreign governments, which isn't exactly the perfect crime. The principal keeps making self-incriminating statements. The staff would probably quite like immunity and a continued political career. For the first time since the election, I have some real hope that this will end with an impressive amount of criminal charges.
posted by jaduncan at 4:31 PM on May 17, 2017 [29 favorites]

I have a new favorite bureaucrat.

@philindc
I'm being replaced @DHSgov by #SheriffClarke. My job was to work with state and local officials. Clarke says he wants to strangle #Democrats
- So much for Sheriff Clarke's ability to work with #Democratic governors and mayors, he is too polarizing and calls critics #snowflakes
- His department is being investigated for an inmate death because they refused to give the inmate water, he died of #dehydration
- The job is massive, the issues are complex and nuanced, and requires political tact and ability to build relationships, he can't do that
- #SheriffClarke will take an entirely different approach to job than @juliettekayyem @BetsyMarkey and I ever did.
- I guess he's getting out of Milwaukee before the voters fire him. In recent polling 62% of votes disapproved of his job as #sheriff
- Asked about working with Democrats Clarke said he wants to grab them by their throats, I never said that about GOP electeds I worked with
- I feel bad for my career staff @DHSgov, also bad for groups like @NatlGovsAssoc @usmayors, will he really be their #advocate inside DHS?
- Also why did #SheriffClarke travel to #Russia in 2015 to meet with one of #putin's deputies? And who paid for trip?
- Well I can say that I've never been sued by the @ACLU and I've never traveled to Russia to meet with a Putin deputy
posted by chris24 at 4:31 PM on May 17, 2017 [192 favorites]

Ana Marie Cox had fun with this one—Don't Pity Paul Ryan:

If you look at Ryan’s résumé rather than his news clips, a necessarily drier and surprisingly tuneless narrative emerges: Ryan is kind of a fuck-up who has failed ever upward in government. We gasp at his capacity to eat Trump's shit and ask for more, but he's actually more like Trump than he is different. He is a beneficiary of media narrative over reporting, of the right's intellectual poverty, of the very low bar the GOP has set for its leadership. No wonder he refuses to hold Trump accountable; someone might start asking questions about him.

posted by zachlipton at 4:31 PM on May 17, 2017 [61 favorites]

The bigger story about the Ryan tape is that it was leaked now.

You're right. I forgot my first two questions after reading the news were:
1. Who did the taping and did everyone know they were being taped?
2. Why sit on it for a year?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:33 PM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

Imagine going back in time like five or ten years and showing someone this sentence:

The U.S. Justice Department on Wednesday appointed former FBI Director Robert Mueller as special counsel to investigate possible collusion between President Donald Trump's 2016 campaign team and Russia as well as alleged Russian interference in the U.S. election.

I know a lot of people have been saying this in jest but I honestly do feel like I'm living in a dream world. How can this all be really happening?
posted by showbiz_liz at 4:33 PM on May 17, 2017 [54 favorites]

President DEVOS.
Oh my god.

It's Battlestar Galactica all over ~~again~~ before.
EdSec --> POTUS
posted by Barack Spinoza at 4:34 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

Trump statement.
posted by primethyme at 4:35 PM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

Mueller also presumably throught enough of Comey to endorse him as a successor

Comey and Mueller worked side by side for years through some of the most trying times for the USA in recent memory (the years after 9/11). By all accounts the bond between them goes well beyond "thought enough of Comey to endorse him".

*If* the Trump camp ever decides they need to push back on Mueller because something is setting off alarms for them I would assume that's the tack they would take; that he is not and cannot be impartial because of his relationship with Comey.
posted by Justinian at 4:35 PM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

Saulgoodman: I wish you the best, and I hope you get your wish. (I can understand wanting a break from the news! I wish I could stop with the rubbernecking...)

As for Pence: Let's not with the HURR DURR GILEAD fanfic, mmmkay? I would be a lot more scared if Pence was capable/intelligent/charismatic/pick two. As it is, he's dumb as a stump and has the charisma of a wet flounder, and IIRC he was extremely unpopular as Governor of Indiana. He might dream of a theocracy, but I don't think he's capable of putting it into practice. Tic-tac-toe, not chess. At least we won't have to worry about the nuclear button or yet another amazingly stupid remark to an important ally.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 4:35 PM on May 17, 2017 [8 favorites]

It's gotta be Egg who leaked that tape.
posted by jason_steakums at 4:35 PM on May 17, 2017 [51 favorites]

You're right. I forgot my first two questions after reading the news were:
1. Who did the taping and did everyone know they were being taped?
2. Why sit on it for a year?

I've been pondering the possibility that it was leaked by someone in the intelligence community, and feeling like I need a wall o'crazy when I do it.
posted by a power-tie-wearing she-capitalist at 4:36 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

President DEVOS.
Oh my god.

It's Battlestar Galactica all over again before.
Sec of Ed --> POTUS

Bite your tongue. Mary McDonnell was an excellent fictional Secretary of Education. Indeed, she arguably did more positive things for the real world as fictional President of a fictional institution then Devos will ever do as an actual Secretary of Education.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:37 PM on May 17, 2017 [51 favorites]

is it too early to sing?

SPLOOSH! WHOOSH! THE DOUCHE IS DEAD...
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 4:37 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

Trump statement.

Did they hire somebody new in the comm. office? Shockingly, that statement was written by someone competent.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:38 PM on May 17, 2017 [14 favorites]

And for all we know, there won't be a President Pence, nor a President Ryan. It might just be pee tapes all the way down. One giant lake of Republican urine somewhere in St. Petersburg. It looks like so many of them are in it up to their eyeballs. And those who aren't, are feeling the heat of angry constituents. Hooray for angry constituents!
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 4:38 PM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

Hypothetically, his lawyer tells Trump it's a no-hoper. Trump quits (blames media, whatever). Does the investigation by Mueller continue?
posted by Rumple at 4:38 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

Trump statement.

I have zero belief that Trump wrote or had anything to do with that statement.
posted by Mchelly at 4:38 PM on May 17, 2017 [24 favorites]

Steve King is an absolute garbage person, but I would be surprised if he goes down for corruption. I think he comes by his garbage-ness 100% honestly. Sadly, I think the solution to the Steve King problem is going to have to come from the voters, and I don't have high hopes for that right now. But who the hell knows how this all is going to play out. I am done making political predictions until I'm living in a political world that I recognize even the slightest bit.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:39 PM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

That "Trump Statement" sounds like he not only didn't write it, but didn't know it existed. And probably still doesn't.
posted by saturday_morning at 4:39 PM on May 17, 2017 [17 favorites]

Bite your tongue.

I should have! I agree with you. Mary McDonnell is a national treasure. Devos, not so much.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 4:39 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

He'd be impeached if he did that.

Please don't say that.
posted by jammer at 4:40 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

You're right. I forgot my first two questions after reading the news were:
1. Who did the taping and did everyone know they were being taped?
2. Why sit on it for a year?

Speculation here: Someone in the GOP that doesn't hold a lot of power but for whatever reason decided to tape the conversations in order to maybe get dirt. Or maybe they were uncomfortable with what they were hearing before and taped it. Then they had it but didn't feel they could use it or were waiting for the perfect time to 'make a move'. Now is the time and they leaked because they feel that the leadership is blocking doing the right thing because they are complicit.

Or someone in the GOP taped it for whatever reason, realized eventually what they had and turned the tape over to the FBI or someone in the IC. It's being released now by IC because the GOP leadership is a significant block to moving forward with dealing with Trump and they are 'sowing discord'.

It could also be a warning from whomever to other GOP members that the need to get on the right side and not lash themselves to a sinking ship.

Or it was taped by someone else entirely and now it's just the right time to release it where they figure it will do the most damage.
posted by Jalliah at 4:41 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

Did they hire somebody new in the comm. office? Shockingly, that statement was written by someone competent.

Trump was probably in a frothing rage shouting obscenities at the television while that was written. Who knows if he even saw the thing.
posted by Justinian at 4:41 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

Robert Mueller: "I accept this responsibility and will discharge it to the best of my ability."
posted by chris24 at 4:42 PM on May 17, 2017 [16 favorites]

Likely other people have brought this up recently, but about a year ago I posted this (which I initially found via the SA forums):

Somebody made a joke that Trump was a Russian plant, and then because we were talking about it I started idly googling Russian spies, and what do you know:

The Foundations of Geopolitics: The Geopolitical Future of Russia is a 1997 geopolitical book by Alexander Dugin. The book has had a large influence within the Russian military, police, and foreign policy elites and was allegedly used as a textbook in the General Staff Academy of Russian military.

...In the United States, Russia should use its special forces within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism. For instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics."

Um... you guys I think Trump might be a Russian plant
posted by showbiz_liz at 4:42 PM on May 17, 2017 [49 favorites]

His department is being investigated for an inmate death because they refused to give the inmate water, he died of #dehydration

Let's not forgot that a newborn baby died in his jail because the jailers ignored the woman going into labor. He is a baby killer.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:42 PM on May 17, 2017 [42 favorites]

schadenfrau: Can we start referring to the whole thing as the Russia Treason or something? Just so we smear them all with it? Most people won't look into more than the name, but that name will be stamped on every Republican forehead.

How about 'The Russian Tea Party'?
posted by ZeusHumms at 4:43 PM on May 17, 2017 [15 favorites]

One giant lake of Republican urine somewhere in St. Petersburg.

I think you just perfectly envisioned the Boschian afterlife most of these people are going to be spending eternity in
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:43 PM on May 17, 2017 [14 favorites]

I'm just clicking on random items on the Jack Bauer soundboard right now.
posted by srboisvert at 4:43 PM on May 17, 2017 [12 favorites]

Trump statement.

Did they hire somebody new in the comm. office? Shockingly, that statement was written by someone competent.

My personal guess would be that it had significant input from a lawyer, and that from now on statements are going to read very much more that way. The terseness and desire to avoid making any claims that have not already been made seem like a bit of a tell.
posted by jaduncan at 4:44 PM on May 17, 2017 [18 favorites]

I also have an utterly delicious feeling that this has occured primarily because the WH - and here I essentially mean Jeff Sessions telling Trump what to do - misjudged how much they could rely on Rosenstein.

So wait. Are we thinking this appointment happened because Rosenstein was pissed about them abusing his name and his memo in the Comey firing justification? Because if so... *italian chef kissing fingers gesture* *fire emoji x 3*
posted by saturday_morning at 4:44 PM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

Clarke's uniform is apparently bullshit.
posted by Artw at 4:44 PM on May 17, 2017 [36 favorites]

Why is every GOP leader such a terrible, unfunny conversationalist that all of their scandalous comments can semi-plausibly be explained as jokes???
posted by acidic at 4:45 PM on May 17, 2017 [9 favorites]

Trump quits (blames media, whatever). Does the investigation by Mueller continue?

Yes, it should. "Individuals associated with the Trump campaign" and "any matters that arose or may arise directly from". That won't stop if Trump bolts, they're hopefully looking at criminal charges for everyone who touched anything about Russian connections, not just Trump.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:46 PM on May 17, 2017 [10 favorites]

As a Californian, I feel that anything that could end the political careers of both Kevin (not Joe, closer to Charlie) McCarthy and Dana Rohr-louder makes this Good News Day, even without the Special Council announcement.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:46 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

Trump statement.

It would be hilarious if the media asked about "that statement you wrote" and he had no idea it even existed.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 4:46 PM on May 17, 2017 [12 favorites]

When Deputy Attorney General Rosenstein said he would not appoint a Special Counsel, I assumed he was a Trump stooge. Now I wonder if he may have been waiting until he was certain Mueller would agree to the position. He seems like a hero.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:47 PM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]

So wait. Are we thinking this appointment happened because Rosenstein was pissed about them abusing his name and his memo in the Comey firing justification? Because if so... *italian chef kissing fingers gesture* *fire emoji x 3*

I have an odd (and based on nothing) feeling that it was on the merits. At some point, a careerist is going to choose to make the right decision because it's the right thing to do, and is also the only thing to do if a continued career is desired.

Crucially, he's one of the only people that isn't massively tied or beholden to Trump.
posted by jaduncan at 4:47 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

Just wondering - is there a bunker at Mar-a-Lago?
posted by davebush at 4:48 PM on May 17, 2017 [11 favorites]

Why is every GOP leader such a terrible, unfunny conversationalist that all of their scandalous comments can semi-plausibly be explained as jokes???

Because all of Conservative thought can semi-plausibly be explained as a joke.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:48 PM on May 17, 2017 [16 favorites]

When Deputy Attorney General Rosenstein said he would not appoint a Special Counsel, I assumed he was a Trump stooge. Now I wonder if he may have been waiting until he was certain Mueller would agree to the position. He seems like a hero.

Smart to deny everything until it's fait accompli. Otherwise you tip your hand and Orangeaid axes you to put in a stooge.
posted by leotrotsky at 4:49 PM on May 17, 2017 [10 favorites]

So wait. Are we thinking this appointment happened because Rosenstein was pissed about them abusing his name and his memo in the Comey firing justification? Because if so... *italian chef kissing fingers gesture* *fire emoji x 3*

I'm guessing it also has something to do with Rosenstein suspecting them of being criminals. You know, since they pretty much have dayglo Committing a Felony Right Now! signs suspended over their heads.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:49 PM on May 17, 2017 [18 favorites]

So wait. Are we thinking this appointment happened because Rosenstein was pissed about them abusing his name and his memo in the Comey firing justification? Because if so... *italian chef kissing fingers gesture* *fire emoji x 3*

According to a journalist on twitter (I forget which one) Mueller was seen coming out of Rosenstein's office the day after Comey's firing. I think he had already decided to do this and was just waiting until he had Mueller's decision.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:50 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

CNN saying that since a Special Counsel has been appointed, Comey no longer wants to testify. His Work Is Done.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:50 PM on May 17, 2017 [16 favorites]

Trump is fucked. The breadth of the Special Counsel order means that Mueller will have free rein to investigate any past financial dealings, legal or otherwise, with Russia, the mob, etc. to make sure there's no possibility of collusion or blackmail. So even if there's not recent collusion during the campaign or administration, there's no way Trump isn't dirty with Russia or mob at some point in the past. His best case is Mueller only finds money laundering.

The real question is, how many Republican elected officials and campaign contributors go down with him? Are the Mercers implicated, or the DeVoses? Are the money laundering rumors based in reality?

I mean, I expect Keebler Klux Klan is going down.
posted by leotrotsky at 4:51 PM on May 17, 2017 [9 favorites]

CNN saying that since a Special Counsel has been appointed, Comey no longer wants to testify.

In front of Congress, maybe. He knows he's getting a big fat subpoena from Mueller like tomorrow.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:51 PM on May 17, 2017 [18 favorites]

My thought is the GOP leader tape was put into play now in order to take advantage of the cracks that have appeared in both the Senate and the House because of the past couple of days. It's primarily meant for them. The point is to help break up the gang mentality and sow discord and mistrust.
If it ends up leading to any of them being brought down internally that's all bonus.
posted by Jalliah at 4:51 PM on May 17, 2017 [13 favorites]

Soo tired of hoping for president Pence...
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 4:52 PM on May 17, 2017

Trump is fucked. The breadth of the Special Counsel order means that Mueller will have free rein to investigate any past financial dealings, legal or otherwise, with Russia, the mob, etc. to make sure there's no possibility of collusion or blackmail. So even if there's not recent collusion during the campaign or administration, there's no way Trump isn't dirty with Russia or mob at some point in the past. His best case is Mueller only finds money laundering.

Right. Remember how Ken Starr was appointed to investigate Whitewater, but Bill Clinton ended up being impeached for the Monica Lewinsky thing? Think that, but with someone who has actually done a lot of things that merit prosecution.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:52 PM on May 17, 2017 [58 favorites]

Mitch McConnell has released a statement saying that the Senate Intelligence comittee will continue to investigate as well. Seems unnecessary but maybe there is some other purpose?

I really think the suggestion made above that Evan McMullin released the tape might be a strong possibility. We know he has no love for Trump supporters and he was apparently at the meeting with Ryan and McCarthy and as a former CIA guy he would no doubt be used to taping everything.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:54 PM on May 17, 2017 [18 favorites]

I know a lot of people have been saying this in jest but I honestly do feel like I'm living in a dream world. How can this all be really happening?

How can our president be real if our votes aren't real?
posted by Talez at 4:54 PM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

PBS Newshour, Rep Adam Kinzinger (R-Ill), (paraphrasing): now that a Special Counsel has been appointed, it will take him 60 days to get up to speed. So we can all take a deep breathe and calm down and get back to our legislatin'.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 4:55 PM on May 17, 2017

I mean, I expect Keebler Klux Klan is going down.

Is it wrong that I hope the fed who arrests him is a black woman?
posted by leotrotsky at 4:55 PM on May 17, 2017 [31 favorites]

Just wondering - is there a bunker at Mar-a-Lago?

According to Wikipedia, it has three bomb shelters. Which is too bad, because I wanted to make a joke about marshland and a secret submarine base.
posted by notyou at 4:55 PM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

What if the issue isn't collusion between Trump's campaign and a foreign entity, though? The issue to me seems to be money laundering, specifically by people that have been part of Trump's organization (campaign or business). It's a good chance that a lot of dirty money has been parked in Trump properties. People like Flynn and Manafort helped facilitate that. It might seem like a small difference, but I don't think there's going to be evidence of Putin paying Trump or whatever. It's more complicated than that.
posted by My Dad at 4:55 PM on May 17, 2017 [9 favorites]

According to Wikipedia, it has three bomb shelters. Which is too bad, because I wanted to make a joke about marshland and a secret submarine base.

Something something Legion of Doom...
posted by Talez at 4:57 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

So we can all take a deep breathe and calm down and get back to our legislatin'.

Fuck. That. Shit. I don't think the quite realize how fired up people are. They are not going to have a moment's peace until Trump is out of office, and probably not after then either.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:57 PM on May 17, 2017 [25 favorites]

What if the issue isn't collusion between Trump's campaign and a foreign entity, though?

Mueller has pretty much been given the go ahead to investigate anything he finds.
posted by Jalliah at 4:58 PM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]

All these fucking Republicans going on TV and saying they support this decision, because they can no longer prevent this decision
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:58 PM on May 17, 2017 [43 favorites]

I gather Mueller has a fairly specific mandate. Where is it outlined, and how much does it confine him? Or does that only apply to the Nixon case?

The attorney general or Congress could seek appointment of a special counsel, but the ultimate selection was left up to a panel of federal judges who also determined the prosecutor’s mandate.

posted by Coventry at 4:58 PM on May 17, 2017

I don't think it would have made a difference pre-election. I don't think it'll make that big a difference now, tbh. It strikes me as more of a specific message to Ryan, et al., than something meant to fire up the public.
posted by yasaman at 4:58 PM on May 17, 2017 [14 favorites]

Whoever released the damn thing, if they had it before the election they are 1000% more craven and unpatriotic than the people who are still defending Trump, because they could have stopped this before it started.

I don't think it would have made one iota of difference and would have been swept under the rug way more easily then it can now.
posted by Jalliah at 4:59 PM on May 17, 2017 [11 favorites]

Adam Kinzinger is my Rep. He ran unopposed so there was no chance of him not being elected. I did the best thing I could which was write in someone else though.
posted by Green With You at 4:59 PM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

Just wondering - is there a bunker at Mar-a-Lago?

According to Wikipedia, it has three bomb shelters. Which is too bad, because I wanted to make a joke about marshland and a secret submarine base.

Come on, unexpected Florida sinkhole!
posted by jason_steakums at 5:00 PM on May 17, 2017 [28 favorites]

I gather Mueller has a fairly specific mandate. Where is it outlined, and how much does it confine him? Or does that only apply to the Nixon case?

He has been given a really broad mandate.
posted by Jalliah at 5:00 PM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

Republicans: if we can just have a few days to saddle this shit tornado, surely we can harness it's awesome power to get tax cuts for the rich passed!

Republicans, you can't saddle a shit twister. You can't control it or turn it's path. You can just get covered in shit. And may I say, couldn't happen to a nicer group of racist misogynist fascists.
posted by supercrayon at 5:01 PM on May 17, 2017 [16 favorites]

CNN saying that since a Special Counsel has been appointed, Comey no longer wants to testify. His Work Is Done.

That's not great news, is it? I liked the idea of Comey being on TV next week and keeping the momentum going.
posted by saturday_morning at 5:01 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

Soo tired of hoping for president Pence...

Pence was appointed by a Russian bagman, and is likely to be under investigation for having knowingly lied about Flynn whilst knowing that Flynn was a) the NSA and b) compromised by Russia. I find it hard to see how Pence stays clean in this investigation, and that's only based on what is a and known if you believe Yates' testimony.

Oh, and as a bonus, Flynn was c) being paid - directly! - by at least two governments to act as their agent in a quite impressive criminal breach. If Pence knew about that and then lied, that is quite impressively career limiting.
posted by jaduncan at 5:02 PM on May 17, 2017 [13 favorites]

National Treasure Josh Marshall's Thoughts on the Special Counsel Appointment

First, this is a good pick.

Mueller has a strong reputation for professionalism. He was in DC for years. So people will have disagreements about this or that. He also headed the FBI for the whole post-9/11 era, during which the US pursued numerous highly controversial law enforcement and counter-terrorism policies. But with Mueller overseeing the investigation, I think that if anyone under scrutiny broke any laws they’re likely in pretty big trouble. For the purposes of this appointment, that’s what matters. I don’t think Mueller has any interest or willingness to cover for President Trump or any of his associates.[...]

But here’s the key. This is important and necessary but not sufficient.

There also needs to be an independent commission to investigate what happened in the 2016 election. These two options – special counsel or independent commission – are often bandied about as two separate options, one or the other, or as steps of escalation in a scandal. None of those things is true. [...]

People who committed crimes should be punished. Unquestionably. But the truest and deepest national interest is that the whole story be thoroughly investigated and the full story get a public airing. That is far more important to the health of the Republic and its safety than whether particular individuals spend time in prison. Again, it’s not either/or. But one is far more important than the other. A counter-intelligence probe or even a criminal investigation could wind up and the details and findings never be known. That can’t be allowed to happen. We need a fully empowered commission charged not with investigating and prosecuting criminal conduct but ascertaining, as far as possible, what happened and then bringing that information before the public.

Marshall is absolutely correct--people who have committed crimes against the United States must be punished. However, We the People must have a full airing of what exactly happened in the 2016 election with respect to Russian interference.

We have a special prosecutor--now, we collectively must pressure the legislature to have a fully open, independent, public commission on the circumstance of the 2016 election. It is our collective right to know what happened and to show Vladi that he can his antidemocratic nonsense and shove it.

We ain't moving the goalposts--we're just moving down the field, shining light on goalposts that have always been there.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 5:03 PM on May 17, 2017 [133 favorites]

Had to go back to this: "I nod at you agreeably as you decide I'm your lapdog, all the while quietly sharpening my prosecutorial knives."

Any other Vienna Teng fans who've had Whatever You Want stuck in your head?
posted by asteria at 5:03 PM on May 17, 2017 [8 favorites]

Whoever released the damn thing, if they had it before the election they are 1000% more craven and unpatriotic than the people who are still defending Trump, because they could have stopped this before it started.

If they had just witnessed candidate Trump suffer no consequences for bragging about sexual assault on tape, I understand why they might've sat on this one.
posted by EatTheWeek at 5:03 PM on May 17, 2017 [10 favorites]

It's been 37 hours since Trump tweeted. (There's been a few staff tweets.) The pressure must be building. Tick tock.
posted by chris24 at 5:03 PM on May 17, 2017 [10 favorites]

How the fuck has the middle east trip not been canceled?
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 5:04 PM on May 17, 2017 [11 favorites]

He has been given a really broad mandate.

Is it publicly available?
posted by Coventry at 5:05 PM on May 17, 2017

How the fuck has the middle east trip not been canceled?

White House staff really, really wants him gone for a few weeks.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:06 PM on May 17, 2017 [23 favorites]

Josh Marshall argues (correctly, I think) that this is all well and good, but we still need an independent commission, because there was wrong-doing that may not be technically illegal.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:06 PM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]

How the fuck has the middle east trip not been canceled?

I'd wager his remaining inner circle is hoping to rally the base with a big "fix yourselves, gross muslims" speech in Saudi Arabia. I'm sure it'll go great.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:06 PM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

I gather Mueller has a fairly specific mandate. Where is it outlined, and how much does it confine him?

His specified mandate is amazingly broad, actually.

Here's the memo.

Key bit:

any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of Donald Trump
any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation
any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. § 600.4(a)

As noted above that bit of code covers "federal crimes committed in the course of, and with intent to interfere with, the Special Counsel's investigation, such as perjury, obstruction of justice, destruction of evidence, and intimidation of witnesses."
posted by jammer at 5:06 PM on May 17, 2017 [32 favorites]

That's not great news, is it? I liked the idea of Comey being on TV next week and keeping the momentum going. (re: Comey not testifying publicly).

Great news for whom? It may be good news for eventually finding out the truth. It's certainly not good news for the life savings I pumped into popcorn futures in anticipation.

I think it's an open question as to whether to torrent of leaks we've seen continues. Do members of the intelligence community keep it up or do they trust Mueller enough that they'll sit on it and see what happens?
posted by Justinian at 5:07 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

Wapo “any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump’’ as well as “any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation’’

Bolded is the key line. It means start with Russia and then wherever else it takes you. As people commented already with Clinton it meant start with Whitewater and wow end up with blow jobs.
posted by Jalliah at 5:08 PM on May 17, 2017 [12 favorites]

That memo fills my heart with joy. Hope it pays off.
posted by Coventry at 5:08 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

Jim Costa on CNN: "It's hard to imagine a worse seventy-two hours in Donald Trump's life."
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:08 PM on May 17, 2017 [52 favorites]

I'm imagining Thursday through Saturday.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:09 PM on May 17, 2017 [73 favorites]

- the repeated evidence of the campaign's collusion with Russia

I, for one, am desperately hoping that this is part of the findings of the investigation. It would form the basis of a lawsuit to throw out the results of the 2016 election, the only reasonable remedy for the losers. If, in the event of solid evidence, the DNC doesn't mount such a lawsuit, they will be dead to me.
posted by Mental Wimp at 5:10 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

Archibald Cox was asked to be Special Prosecutor on May 16th, 1973. For perhaps the first time, Trump is trailing Nixon in the impeachment timeline. By one day.
posted by chris24 at 5:11 PM on May 17, 2017 [12 favorites]

Jim Costa on CNN: "It's hard to imagine a worse seventy-two hours in Donald Trump's life."

Oh, I can imagine plenty.
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:11 PM on May 17, 2017 [16 favorites]

It's gotta be Egg who leaked that tape.

Given the surgical precision of its release? Yeah. I think he's trying for the replacement to start at Hatch.
posted by corb at 5:11 PM on May 17, 2017 [12 favorites]

It would form the basis of a lawsuit to throw out the results of the 2016 election

I'm pretty sure this is Constitutionally impossible.
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:12 PM on May 17, 2017 [27 favorites]

Well shit, finally some good news.
posted by INFJ at 5:12 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

He has to at least be considering resignation before he has to go on his big scary overseas trip.
posted by contraption at 5:13 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

An independent commission is also super-important if anybody wants to understand what Russia did and how to stop them from doing it again. Not just the hacking, but the propaganda, the social media bots, etc... By all means, there should be an investigation into whether Trump or his people broke the law and/or colluded with Russia, but we also need an independent public reckoning with what happened, and that's going to be beyond the scope of Mueller's investigation.

It would form the basis of a lawsuit to throw out the results of the 2016 election, the only reasonable remedy for the losers.

There is no legal basis for this. It does not appear in the Constitution.
posted by zachlipton at 5:13 PM on May 17, 2017 [31 favorites]

any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of Donald Trump
any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation
any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. § 600.4(a)

One of the primary things I'm curious about is quite how screwed Manafort might be. Given that he essentially operated as a Kremlin fixer in EE for a while, there's quite a lot to uncover. Crucially that memo doesn't limit the coordination to the campaign period or campaign related activities, so anything he got up to in Ukraine is officially open for investigation.
posted by jaduncan at 5:14 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

Now I'm kind of counting the minutes until the always delightful Daily Beast and Politico "Welcome to Hell" round-ups of the mood in the White House. Only on this particular afternoon/evening, the entire West Wing may be too busy Calling Saul to leak like cheesecloth.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:14 PM on May 17, 2017 [9 favorites]

I think the radio silence from Trump is because someone, maybe Ivanka, sat him down and said "this is serious you're looking at jail time if you don't shut up and give me your phone." And that's why he was whining about being treated unfairly today.
posted by gofargogo at 5:15 PM on May 17, 2017 [44 favorites]

Jim Costa on CNN: "It's hard to imagine a worse seventy-two hours in Donald Trump's life."

Donald J. Trump: Hold my borscht!
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:16 PM on May 17, 2017 [25 favorites]

Archibald Cox was asked to be Special Prosecutor on May 16th, 1973. For perhaps the first time, Trump is trailing Nixon in the impeachment timeline. By one day.

If we're on the Nixon timeline (gods help us), that means 450 or so days until Trump resigns. 450 days from now is the second week of August, 2018, just months away from the midterms.

Tick tock.
posted by nathan_teske at 5:16 PM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

Can I make a small appeal for people to please if not read the links, at least scan back like 50 comments before posting one liner questions that have already been answered? This thread still has new thread smell and it's not going to last long if we have to rehash the Mueller memo and the difference between special counsel and the expired independent prosecutor statute every 30mins.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:18 PM on May 17, 2017 [32 favorites]

How long until Jared makes a deal to give evidence in exchange for avoiding prison time? I imagine that he has a more acute sense than the rest of them that going to federal prison is an actual possibility.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:18 PM on May 17, 2017 [11 favorites]

I'm pretty sure this is Constitutionally impossible.
There is no legal basis for this. It does not appear in the Constitution.

Yes, I've read others who said that, but note that SCOTUS intervened in the 2000 election and the courts have overturned other elections, without either of those being mentioned in the Constitution. And if the courts have no jurisdiction over Presidential elections, how did SCOTUS decide the 2000 election?
posted by Mental Wimp at 5:19 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

WaPo: The worst job in Washington right now: Working for Trump

Some White House staffers have turned to impeachment gallows humor. Other mid-level aides have started reaching out to consultants, shopping their resumes. And at least one senior staffer has begun privately talking to friends about what a post-White House job would look like, according to two people close the staffer.

Trump, for his part, largely believes his recent string of mishaps are not substantive but simply errors of branding and public relations, according to people close to him and the White House. Indeed, as he faced a wave of criticism following the disclosure he had leaked “code-word” intelligence material to Russian officials during an Oval Office meeting last week, the president took to Twitter to claim he had “the absolute right” to do so.
...
One Republican operative in frequent contact with White House officials described them as “going through the stages of grief.” Another said some aides have “moved to angry,” frustrated with a president who demands absolute loyalty but in recent days has publicly tarnished the credibility of his team by sending them out with one message, only to personally undercut it later with a contradicting tweet or public comment.
...
The Trump White House has always been full of leaks to the news media. But the latest waves of anonymous griping have subtly shifted from warring aides bickering among themselves to staffers training their frustrations on the president, as well. Those who remain fully loyal to Trump report a growing sense of isolation.

posted by zachlipton at 5:19 PM on May 17, 2017 [29 favorites]

How long until Jared makes a deal to give evidence in exchange for avoiding prison time? I imagine that he has a more acute sense than the rest of them that going to federal prison is an actual possibility.

Yep. 50 Nixon staffers went to jail. Nixon didn't. People are going to be selling out to save their asses.
posted by chris24 at 5:20 PM on May 17, 2017 [41 favorites]

Spicer's remembering the safety he found in the shade of the bushes on the day that now seems so long ago. He looks down at his hands and thinks of the claws of a mole, strong and purposeful. When he closes his eyes he sees himself crouching there under the bushes, digging into the cool loamy earth, its dampness permeating his jacket and mingling with his own flopsweat as he wriggles and squirms into the silent protection of his burrow
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:20 PM on May 17, 2017 [132 favorites]

Here is tonight's first Welcome to Hell round up of White House staff leaking. Though I get the impression WaPo has been working on this one for a couple days.
posted by yasaman at 5:20 PM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

@pattonoswalt: 'IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE VIEWING "TRUMP PRESIDENCY IMPLODES" PLEASE HIT "REFRESH" ON TWITTER'
posted by zippy at 5:20 PM on May 17, 2017 [86 favorites]

He has to at least be considering resignation before he has to go on his big scary overseas trip.

Part of me seriously wonders whether the overseas trip is a way to get Trump out of the country and into hiding as soon as possible.
posted by naju at 5:21 PM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

Live Glen Greenwald interview on the events of today Single link The intercept facebook link.....
posted by bluesky43 at 5:22 PM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

Well, that would be hilariously awkward since the reporting is that Trump is furious with Kushner for encouraging him to fire Comey in the first place, the effect of which was akin to pouring gasoline on this whole hilarious tragic trashfire.

I think they expected to be able to shake the next shiny object in the face of the press and move on quickly. It seems to be an extreme miscalculation.
posted by Talez at 5:22 PM on May 17, 2017

Y'all know what is really funny about today?

Robert Mueller was appointed as Special Prosecutor on what would have been Archibald Cox's 105th birthday!

I wonder if this was DAG Rosenstein making a subtly clever joke at the executive's expense.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 5:23 PM on May 17, 2017 [12 favorites]

from one of the WaPo articles but I already lost track of which one: That report sent senators into a frenzy during Tuesday’s round of votes, when they could be seen anxiously chatting among themselves. Sen. Heidi Heitkamp (D-N.D.) saw them too — and realized she had missed out on something.

“What now?” she screamed across the chamber.

just imagine if you were a senator, you wouldn't have to spend all day reading this thread, you would just raise your head up to the sky periodically and scream WHAT NOW? and somebody would come over and tell you.
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:23 PM on May 17, 2017 [91 favorites]

Trump is fucked.

Soooo, perhaps the smartest thing to do from Trump's perspective is to actually fire Mueller (via firing Rosenstein) and take the chance that the GOP will do nothing about it. Doesn't he have a better chance that the GOP will continue to be useless than he does of surviving an actual investigation?
posted by triggerfinger at 5:23 PM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

From Trump's perspective, maybe. I assume if that happens though that the howling, unstoppable fury of the intelligence community will be fully unleashed and it will be leaks leaks leaks all day, all night, favors called in, threats made, etc etc.
posted by yasaman at 5:26 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

Trump is trailing Nixon in the impeachment timeline. By one day.
This is happening in "Internet Time". Remember that Nixon's (first) Special Prosecutor was named after one full term so Trump is way ahead of him. But if he's not out the door in a lot less than 450 days, he is going to bring the entire Republican Party with him. Think of it as a much better version of "drain the swamp".

How long until Jared makes a deal
He saw his father go to jail over political shenanigans for 14 months... and that was AFTER a lot of deal making. Put him high on the list of "unhappy campers at Camp Crystal Lake*".

*pop culture reference, but remember, the next Friday the 13th will be in October.
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:28 PM on May 17, 2017 [14 favorites]

Mental Wimp: "And if the courts have no jurisdiction over Presidential elections, how did SCOTUS decide the 2000 election?"

They didn't decide the presidential election directly - they didn't say, "W wins." They ruled that different Florida counties using different vote counting standards was an Equal Protection clause violation. It's obvious what was driving the decision, but there was an underlying constitutional rationale.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:30 PM on May 17, 2017 [9 favorites]

Live Glen Greenwald interview on the events of today Single link The intercept facebook link.....

This is what he's said so far:

You all think removing Trump is good, but it will actually be bad!
You shouldn't remove him unless he's committed a really bad crime (and he hasn't guys he hasn't)
You can't remove him because his voters are angry and it will make them sad and then they'll get angrier

then I closed the windows because the force of my eye rolling had popped one of my eyeballs out and sent it across the floor and I had to go get it before my cats did
posted by Anonymous at 5:31 PM on May 17, 2017

Soooo, perhaps the smartest thing to do from Trump's perspective is to actually fire Mueller (via firing Rosenstein) and take the chance that the GOP will do nothing about it. Doesn't he have a better chance that the GOP will continue to be useless than he does of surviving an actual investigation?

It's less subtle than that. Fire Rosenstein, find replacement, get replacement to agree that the first item on the agenda is the fire the special counsel, fire special counsel, bet that nobody votes to impeach.

That's just a full constitutional crisis, and the compromise option (assuming that isn't just immediate impeachment) is to reauthorise the SC via congress.
posted by jaduncan at 5:32 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

So this line of succession thing. Surely most of the cabinet picks are compromised. But is there any possibility that anyone appointed by Trump when he goes down is automatically fired or something? I understand this is extremely wishful thinking, but if Trump is completely dirty from every angle, how do his appointments get to stand?
posted by Glinn at 5:33 PM on May 17, 2017

OK who took down the wards and summoned Glegrinof
posted by prize bull octorok at 5:34 PM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

I bet Rosenstein has been writing some killer memos tonight.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:34 PM on May 17, 2017 [13 favorites]

how do his appointments get to stand?

Presumably because they were well vetted (sic) by the Senate.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:35 PM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

a nine-day foreign trip starting Friday that many [staffers] hope will provide a stabilizing reboot

Oh yes, I'm sure that nine days of travel, jet lag, foreigners, limited access to ketchup, all sorts of timezones that fuck up the circadian rhythms and make it impossible to watch Fox and Friends on schedule, and the entire set of high profile White House wackazoids all being trapped in a sardine can together where they can get to know one another's foibles and acrid stress perspiration intimately will be SO VERY RELAXING AND RESTORATIVE for all involved, especially President MyOwnBed HomePooper.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:37 PM on May 17, 2017 [110 favorites]

I don't see how trump won't fire Mueller.

He doesn't have the power to.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:37 PM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

Trump could presumably use this for a soft landing if he follows the Nixon playbook, and maybe avoid impeachment/conviction.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:39 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

Soooo how's that full control of Congress and the White House and Scalia's seat working out?
posted by jason_steakums at 5:40 PM on May 17, 2017 [11 favorites]

Maybe let's not get cocky yet.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:42 PM on May 17, 2017 [95 favorites]

I don't see how trump won't fire Mueller.

He doesn't have the power to.

Doesn't mean he won't try.
posted by EatTheWeek at 5:42 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

I wouldn't envy Obama if he had to handle the high amount of stress and developing-by-the-hour news over the next few days, and Obama is someone who can handle himself under pressure. Trump? I assume he's just going to have a full on screaming glossolalic nervous breakdown, if he's not having one already.
posted by naju at 5:42 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

Yeah, it's Pivot or Impeachment time for the President, which doesn't auger well for his future.
posted by notyou at 5:43 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

Oh yes, I'm sure that nine days of travel, jet lag, foreigners, limited access to ketchup, all sorts of timezones that fuck up the circadian rhythms and make it impossible to watch Fox and Friends on schedule, and the entire set of high profile White House wackazoids all being trapped in a sardine can together where they can get to know one another's foibles and acrid stress perspiration intimately will be SO VERY RELAXING AND RESTORATIVE for all involved, especially President MyOwnBed HomePooper.

And he is going to be told what to do a lot just from a logistics perspective. He will be shuttled and directed here and there tons. He hates that. Add in all of his people trying to give him advice on this to say and not say and he's going to hate it. Plus now add in the paranoia of what in the hell is going on back in the US behind his back.
posted by Jalliah at 5:43 PM on May 17, 2017 [20 favorites]

Yeah, it's Pivot or Impeachment time for the President, which doesn't auger well for his future.

Or just stay the course and count on congress doing nothing to stop him. I wouldn't rule that out.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:44 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

Maybe let's not get cocky yet.

Yea, this. This is a good development, but it's not enough. Trump could fire Mueller somehow and the Reoublciand do nothing. Mueller could exonerate him. The investigation could bog down and take the rest of the first term without public findings. Mueller could produce the most damning report in history, charge a bunch of underlings, and Republicans still may not impeach. The House could impeach and the Senate could still fail to remove him after everything, because they'll need to have at least 19 Republicans vote to remove.

Today is better. It's not time for crowing or confidence. Nothing has changed at all regarding the need for massive public pressure about all of this directly to elected officials.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:47 PM on May 17, 2017 [38 favorites]

My prophecy, for all the good it will do because I might as well be Cassandra: at some point on this trip, if it even goes forward at all because ahahaha tomorrow may yet bring a fresh hell, Trump will go AWOL and/or on communications blackout. The press pool will not know where he is, there'll be a lot of low-key, barely hidden panic from White House staff. Someone will leak about how Trump is having a meltdown or is "unwell." He will return to the US early. Further prognostication seems pointless, though obviously I think we can all agree that the speech on Islam will go poorly at best or start a war at worst.
posted by yasaman at 5:48 PM on May 17, 2017 [10 favorites]

Or just stay the course and count on congress doing nothing to stop him. I wouldn't rule that out.

I don't think Trump can do that. One of the best things you can do when there is no good solution is to wait, to endure the unpleasantness, and look for opportunities as time changes the geography of your situation. But it is excruciating for people like Trump. It takes a level of calm most people don't have. Obama could have done it. But all this must feel to Trump like fire ants having a barbecue on his scalp.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:48 PM on May 17, 2017 [8 favorites]

Republicans are definitely going to have to face up to some political realities before too long.

Backing Trump while also trying to push the incredibly unpopular Trumpcare bill through the Senate is going to be increasingly challenging. Yes Trump has high levels of support among Republican voters (who often get their news filtered through a Fox News lens) and in general it's hard for anyone to keep up with the breakneck pace of scandals unfolding but at a certain point in time Trump's sheer incompetence threatens to derail the Republican's attempt to shove through some massive tax cuts for their donor base.

Assuming that every Republican in congress will shift into election mode around November or December of this year time is running out for Republicans in terms of getting shit done.

Right now they must still think that staying the course and not forcing Trump out of office is preferable to the possible consequence of upsetting the base but each day of new scandals seems like it's getting closer and closer to a break even point in terms of the political calculus.

At the end of the day I don't think that Trump will actually get impeached but I do think that someone will make him a compelling deal in return for his resignation.
posted by vuron at 5:50 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

He doesn't have the power to.

Sure he does, indirectly. He can fire Rosenstein and tell the new DAG to fire Mueller. And keep going until someone acquiesces. If he does it on a Saturday Night we could call it something catchy like the "Saturday Night Massacre."
posted by Justinian at 5:50 PM on May 17, 2017 [11 favorites]

Remind me again, how many major scandals did the Obama administration bring us over their eight years?
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 5:54 PM on May 17, 2017 [43 favorites]

I don't expect Trump to try to get rid of Mueller, as much as he might want to. What I do expect him to do is melt the fuck down, even worse than he has been for the last couple weeks.
posted by uosuaq at 5:54 PM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

A coworker inspired me to create this.
posted by tonycpsu at 5:54 PM on May 17, 2017 [32 favorites]

Well, there was the mustard thing
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:54 PM on May 17, 2017 [8 favorites]

A timely report as the Trump Administration looks to pour money into school vouchers: NYT—In Some States, Donating to Private Schools Can Earn You a Profit

Some states offer dollar-for-dollar tax credits for donations to private schools. The catch is that the IRS also allows you to take a tax deduction for the contribution on your federal return. If you make enough money enough to take advantage of this, you can double-dip and actually make a profit from your donation, undercutting funding for public schools and handing out taxpayer funds to the comparatively wealthy all at the same time.

The article cites this report from the public school superintendents association.
posted by zachlipton at 5:56 PM on May 17, 2017 [26 favorites]

Remind me again, how many major scandals did the Obama administration bring us over their eight years?

Republicans: BENGHAZI BENGHAZI BENGHAZI BENGHAZI
posted by axiom at 5:56 PM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

Or just stay the course and count on congress doing nothing to stop him. I wouldn't rule that out.

I'm hoping that the almost-clockwork schedule of leaks these past few days is the IC signaling to Congress to take their fucking time because they have buckets of scandals they can dole out as long as they need to.
posted by bibliowench at 5:58 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

Tomorrow when I contact Chuck Grassley, I'm going to say that it would be irresponsible to bring any major legislation for Trump to sign while he's being investigated for very serious crimes, and I think the only reasonable thing for the Senate to do is to pass only those bills that are necessary to keep the government going until the investigation concludes. It's a silly suggestion, but I want that asshole to know that we will not tolerate business as usual.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:58 PM on May 17, 2017 [45 favorites]

Assuming he is removed, what kind of future awaits him? Some sort of alt-right Johnny Appleseed? I doubt it. With his brand in ruins, he's probably facing a very Howard Hughes-like existence.
posted by davebush at 5:59 PM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

especially President MyOwnBed HomePooper.

I know I should be worrying, but somehow now I can only giggle.
posted by corb at 6:02 PM on May 17, 2017 [15 favorites]

Of all the things that puzzle me about Trump, the latest is his aversion to the trip. Travel is fun! If you have special needs (burnt steaks with ketchup) you make arrangements for that! If it stresses you out, take an Ativan!
posted by angrycat at 6:06 PM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

Remind me again, how many major scandals did the Obama administration bring us over their eight years?

Republicans: BENGHAZI BENGHAZI BENGHAZI BENGHAZI
I asked it half in jest, but how many actual scandals—not Republican fever-dreams like Benghazi—were there? Looking back, it feels like his administration was perhaps the most scandal-free I can recall in my lifetime. Man, I just miss the sheer normalcy of his administration, even in the face of the endless Republican freakout.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 6:07 PM on May 17, 2017 [11 favorites]

What are the chances Trump goes to Russia and just refuses to come back?
posted by asteria at 6:07 PM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

tonycpsu, that would be an awesome cross-stitch.
posted by orrnyereg at 6:08 PM on May 17, 2017

Oh Hi! *throws jacket over shoulder, steps one foot on rock, leans on knee*
I'm MetaFilter's petebest. Y'know we have a lot of fun in these threads, but let's remember why we're all really here. I'm referring, of course, to cake. The best chocolate cake you've ever seen, or the semi-stale slice of carrot cake from the restaurant last week you forgot on top of the toaster. Any of it is mighty fine. Let's all have some, right now.

And don't forget, looking up arcane federal regulations or digging around for the names of holy crap fifty Nixon staffers who went to jail - hydration is key. So wash that cake down with a tall glass of refreshing, clean, water. Mmmm-mmm! That's the stuff.

And we'll see you - in _0_ days!
posted by petebest at 6:08 PM on May 17, 2017 [94 favorites]

Assuming he is removed, what kind of future awaits him?

Naming names for forever and ever, we can only hope. If/when he goes down I want it to be in the biggest (non-nuclear) blaze of glory in history. I want alll the tapes to come out, and I want him to make it utterly undeniable that the entire Republican party, every last man woman and wastrel failchild, knowingly suborned treason to steal an election. I want him on every channel still, naming them all.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:10 PM on May 17, 2017 [18 favorites]

It would form the basis of a lawsuit to throw out the results of the 2016 election

I'm pretty sure this is Constitutionally impossible.

What about the Supreme Court seat? Could this be grounds for impeaching that Gilead fuck?
posted by schadenfrau at 6:10 PM on May 17, 2017 [10 favorites]

There's no telling what might happen, but resignation or impeachment are now much more likely. People will go to jail. Donnie thinks he can bully, scam, and fire his way to victory because that is what has worked throughout his so-called career. Trouble is, his opponents up till now have not had the kind of resources and power a special counsel has. Investigating attempts to hamper the investigation is on the table, and we've all been watching that on tv for the last week or so.
posted by vrakatar at 6:11 PM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

I asked it half in jest, but how many actual scandals—not Republican fever-dreams like Benghazi—were there?

Obama's Katrina happened like two dozen times.

Even if Trump is impeached before this term is out, I'm sure he'll be able to squeeze in another Watergate, Iran-Contra, and Saturday Night Massacre or two.
posted by peeedro at 6:13 PM on May 17, 2017

I assume that any Trump resignation would have a Presidential Pardon from (Pence/Ryan/Hatch) attached to it. Right now considering he and his family are in full on kleptocrat mode (Mar-a-lago memberships, DC hotel bookings, charging the government for his protection, influence peddling, etc) it seems like staying in office has a better return than resigning.

Hell he might even think he can wait until late 2020 to keep up the increased cash flow and get an 11th hour pardon from Pence. I don't even think he's delusional enough to imagine he'd get re-elected at this point. Not that it will stop him from campaigning for re-election because grifters gonna grift.
posted by vuron at 6:15 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

Again with the breaking news. NYT: Before He Came to White House, Trump Team Knew Flynn Was Under Investigation

Michael T. Flynn told President Trump’s transition team weeks before the inauguration that he was under federal investigation for secretly working as a paid lobbyist for Turkey during the campaign, according to two people familiar with the case.

Despite this warning, which came about a month after the Justice Department notified Mr. Flynn of the inquiry, Mr. Trump made Mr. Flynn his national security adviser. The job gave Mr. Flynn access to the president and nearly every secret held by American intelligence agencies.

Mr. Flynn’s disclosure, on Jan. 4, was first made to the transition team’s chief lawyer, Donald F. McGahn II, who is now the White House counsel. That conversation, and another one two days later between Mr. Flynn’s lawyer and transition lawyers, shows that the Trump team knew about the investigation of Mr. Flynn far earlier than has been previously reported.

posted by zachlipton at 6:16 PM on May 17, 2017 [103 favorites]

angrycat: "Of all the things that puzzle me about Trump, the latest is his aversion to the trip. Travel is fun! If you have special needs (burnt steaks with ketchup) you make arrangements for that! If it stresses you out, take an Ativan!"

I can actually sympathize a bit. Travel's generally more stressful than fun for me. Of course the things that freaks me out about traveling are mostly stuff that he's never had to deal with on his private planes, limos and luxury resorts.
posted by octothorpe at 6:17 PM on May 17, 2017 [10 favorites]

Y'know we have a lot of fun in these threads, but let's remember why we're all really here. I'm referring, of course, to cake.

Lingering over a slice of delicious cake, as we watch the bombs drop and the explosions follow. Now that would be downright poetic.
posted by Autumnheart at 6:19 PM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

Just for those who are not totally clear on the Saturday Night Massacre:

After like a year of coverup and slowly building pressure to investigate the Watergate break-in, Nixon's new AG, Eliot Richardson, appointed Archibald Cox as special counsel. When it became known that Nixon had been taping conversations in the WH, Cox subpoenaed the tapes. Nixon refused, citing executive privilege.

On Friday, Oct 19, 1973, Nixon offered to have near-deaf Senator Stennis transcribe and summarize the tapes, instead. (This really happened) Cox said that wouldn't suffice.

On Saturday, Nixon directed AG Richardson to fire Cox. Richardson refused and resigned. Nixon then ordered Deputy AG William Ruckelshaus to fire Cox; he also refused and resigned. Third in command was Solicitor General, Robert Bork, who agreed to fire Cox.

A federal district judge later found the Cox firing to be illegal.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:20 PM on May 17, 2017 [59 favorites]

Way to go, NYT. That puts Trump's "let it go, he's a good guy" in even better perspective.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:21 PM on May 17, 2017 [12 favorites]

So Bork borked it. I love american politics.
posted by vrakatar at 6:22 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

And McClatchy finally picked up on the underreported story I've been whining about for months, on the Raqqa plan: Flynn stopped military plan Turkey opposed – after being paid as its agent. They fail to cite the Washington Post's reporting on this from February, which would have been nice, but anything that draws attention to Flynn's conflict of interest is good.

To recap the timeline as to why this is a big deal:
Flynn works as a foreign agent for Turkey, fails to register
Flynn immediately scuttles anti-ISIS military plans that would have severely angered the Turks, who were just paying him
Flynn gets fired
The plan to arm the Kurds is back on
posted by zachlipton at 6:25 PM on May 17, 2017 [69 favorites]

That's treason.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:28 PM on May 17, 2017 [27 favorites]

It has been _13_ minutes since the last Trump disaster.

Just thought we should give some of the other numbers a chance.
posted by Behemoth at 6:29 PM on May 17, 2017 [60 favorites]

The fact that Reagan thought that nominating Bork to the Supreme Court after Bork's part in the Watergate crisis is still pretty astounding. It's remarkable that Nixon basically promised Bork that he'd be a selection for the SCOTUS as a reward for firing Cox.

I wonder what Trump will offer someone to fire Mueller.
posted by vuron at 6:30 PM on May 17, 2017 [19 favorites]

On Saturday, Nixon directed AG Richardson to fire Cox. Richardson refused and resigned. Nixon then ordered Deputy AG William Ruckelshaus to fire Cox; he also refused and resigned. Third in command was Solicitor General, Robert Bork, who agreed to fire Cox.

Worth noting that Ronald Reagan later nominated Bork to the Supreme Court, and 40 Republican Senators voted to confirm him. In case you were thinking that the Republican party has any shame at all.
posted by galaxy rise at 6:30 PM on May 17, 2017 [66 favorites]

Judging from Reagan's presidency, I'm gonna go with "no".
posted by Autumnheart at 6:33 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

There's a straight line of Republican resentment from Bork firing Cox through Bork not being confirmed to Justice Gorsuch.
posted by Rumple at 6:33 PM on May 17, 2017 [37 favorites]

Again with the breaking news. NYT: Before He Came to White House, Trump Team Knew Flynn Was Under Investigation

Sweet fancy Moses. I swear that seconds before that link appeared, I was in the midst of typing this:

The thing is, no matter who did or didn't collude with Russia, at this point two things are certain: Mike Flynn AT MINIMUM lied to the FBI, which is a felony. And Donald Trump knowingly tried to get James Comey to cover that up or not investigate it, which is a felony. Crimes were committed regardless of who did what with/for Russia.

posted by FelliniBlank at 6:33 PM on May 17, 2017 [34 favorites]

I was seriously thinking it was going to be a quiet news day after the whirlwind earlier this week. Whew.
posted by TwoWordReview at 6:34 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

The National Enquirer is great for getting insight into what Trump wants people to think (or Trump friends think Trump wants people to think). The most recent headline was about how Trump has a plan for world peace that he revealed to Putin.
posted by drezdn at 6:34 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

From the WaPo "worst job is working for Trump" roundup:

And a third said that others are now sticking around purely for self-interest, hoping to juice their future earning potential. This Republican added that any savvy White House staffer should be keeping a diary. “The real question is: How long do you put up with it?,” this person said. “Every one of those people could get a better paying job and work less hours.”

Sticking around now would seem to me purely against self-interest: does Spicer, for example, become more employable the longer he flop-sweats and lies for Trump?

"Keeping a diary" feels loaded with "because you may all go down unless you can point fingers at who was responsible" subtext.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 6:35 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

The two Flynn stories together paint an even stronger picture: The Administration knew that Flynn had a massive conflict of interest as he gave advised them on the first major military decision they would face, and they did nothing about it.
posted by zachlipton at 6:36 PM on May 17, 2017 [24 favorites]

Fun Fact: Nixon wrote a flattering letter to Trump encouraging him to go into politics.
posted by Rumple at 6:38 PM on May 17, 2017 [17 favorites]

I'm guessing part of the logic behind keeping a diary is for that sweet sweet advance from a tell-all book.
posted by OHenryPacey at 6:38 PM on May 17, 2017 [11 favorites]

The National Enquirer is great for getting insight into what Trump wants people to think (or Trump friends think Trump wants people to think). The most recent headline was about how Trump has a plan for world peace that he revealed to Putin.

That man has spent too much time around beauty contest judges.
posted by jaduncan at 6:38 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

Mr. Flynn’s disclosure, on Jan. 4, was first made to the transition team’s chief lawyer, Donald F. McGahn II, who is now the White House counsel.

So, not a complete surprise, when Sally Yates walked through the door.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 6:40 PM on May 17, 2017 [39 favorites]

'The Russian Tea Party'

Please no. This just insults the Boston Tea Party.

My vote is currently Trumpyre, but I'm entertaining other options.
posted by greermahoney at 6:42 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

Tell all book, major motion picture, evidence, blackmail material, leverage... this is like a corruption scandal on cocaine.
posted by vrakatar at 6:42 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

Oh yes, I'm sure that nine days of travel, jet lag, foreigners, limited access to ketchup, all sorts of timezones that fuck up the circadian rhythms and make it impossible to watch Fox and Friends on schedule....

My worst fear is he drops dead of a heart attack while overseas and the Republicans and MAGA hats will blame the media and the democrats of hounding him to death. There isn't a single scenario of Trump leaving office early that doesn't terrify me. It's going to take 18+ months to get to impeachment if his heart doesn't give out and the economy will likely crater about the same time.
posted by photoslob at 6:42 PM on May 17, 2017 [9 favorites]

Sticking around now would seem to me purely against self-interest: does Spicer, for example, become more employable the longer he flop-sweats and lies for Trump?

It's a matter of record that Trump only cares about loyalty. The reason for that is that if you strip everything else away from someone -- every asset, every talent, everything they can offer their next employer -- and all that's left is loyalty, then that person can never quit, because that proves they don't actually have loyalty and they have nothing to offer.

So Spicer et al are incentivized to stick around, especially if they don't think they'll get caught up in the prosecutions.
posted by Etrigan at 6:42 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

The same transition team being run by Pence, correct?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:43 PM on May 17, 2017 [28 favorites]

My husband thinks Hillary should have a bunch of T-shirts printed up that say, "I told you fuckers to vote for me." And wear one every day.

50 Nixon staffers...anybody else's mouth watering? What are the chances Jared and Ivanka both get brought up on charges?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:44 PM on May 17, 2017 [15 favorites]

That second Flynn article is bad enough it devotes an entire section to "Is it treason?" [spoiler alert: not really.] Even so, that's very much not a question you want a newspaper to be asking about you.
posted by zachlipton at 6:45 PM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

The same transition team being run by Pence, correct?

Good point. If the White House knew about this shit in early January, it starts to look much more doubtful that Pence, dumb and excluded from the loop as he is, knew nothing and was unknowingly repeating Flynn's lies.

I wish I could find the (WaPo?) link/story from an earlier thread in which somebody or other claimed Pence was at some of these Flynn Problem meetings.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:48 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

What are the biggest-ever scandals in American politics? Iran-Contra? Watergate? Teapot Dome? All this feels worse than all of those, even without the Russia crap.
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:50 PM on May 17, 2017 [9 favorites]

a moment of levity:
@fordm: It's less of a "news cycle" these days and more of that BSG episode where the Cylons attack every 33 minutes.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:51 PM on May 17, 2017 [59 favorites]

Trumpyre

Trumpyre Trumpestival
posted by OverlappingElvis at 6:51 PM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

We all know Trump been colluding with Russia. They shovel weapons to the Taliban.

(pretty important read if you haven’t seen it,* lots more lately, this is better reporting)
The UAE gives them money and guns. And he cut a deal to give the UAE more weapons and build up more troops to go into Afghanistan to fight the Taliban. It’d be treasonous if it wasn’t SOP.

(You know SecDef “If you don’t fund the State Department fully, then I need to buy more ammunition, ultimately” Mattis is too honest for this admin if not his job (and as much as I like him, I mean that as an insult. A “gosh that’s peculiarl” reaction to weapons being funneled to people killing your troops, probably an understatement)

Of course he's sharing information on ISIS with the Russians. He's as much a racketeer as Putin. And it's the same dance.
Create instability. Sell weapons, buy resources, cut out/kill those not on board.

ISIS is like what, 53 guys and a van? (Ok, not literally…) But you need a $16 million dollar chunk of hardware to take out 36 of them?

When there’s blood in the street, buy land.
When there’s no blood in the street, get others to spill some.

The Trump admin stands out because it’s so blatant

IDK man, I keep thinking people will wake up. But shit, I thought you couldn't get away with just invading a country and not even trying to cover up the lies that formed the basis for it.

I remember now why I bought into Hobbes' Leviathan. ("For such is the nature of men, that howsoever they may acknowledge many others to be more witty, or more eloquent, or more learned; Yet they will hardly believe there be many so wise as themselves: For they see their own wit at hand, and other men's at a distance....Hereby it is manifest, that during the time men live without a common Power to keep them all in awe, they are in that conditions called Warre; and such a warre, as is of every man, against every man.")

I mean, "It can't happen here"?

Hell, it already did. We're well beyond that. We just haven't had the bill come due yet. And therein lay the Devil's art of conceal and delay.

Buuuut shit, giraffe gets half it's ass eaten off by a lion, it keeps going. I suppose we gotta have more pride than a giraffe.

I mean, yeah Hobbes. But if we're no better than that, no better than nasty, brutish, and short, we're at least better than the people in this administration.

I'd just like to not see Trump become the "elder statesman" Nixon had going on or the crazy crap throwing monkey he was before this.

...*Got tons more open source stuff but no time or energy.
posted by Smedleyman at 6:54 PM on May 17, 2017 [16 favorites]

Mitch McConnell has released a statement saying that the Senate Intelligence comittee will continue to investigate as well. Seems unnecessary but maybe there is some other purpose?

At some point the right thing to do will also become the politically smart thing to do. If it looks like Trump's going down McConnell wants to say he was investigating too.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:56 PM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]

And if the courts have no jurisdiction over Presidential elections, how did SCOTUS decide the 2000 election?

Our consideration is limited to the present circumstances."
posted by kirkaracha at 6:56 PM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

@fordm: It's less of a "news cycle" these days and more of that BSG episode where the Cylons attack every 33 minutes.

Oh god he said that in February LOL
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:58 PM on May 17, 2017 [24 favorites]

'The Russian Tea Party'

Russiapublicans?
posted by leotrotsky at 6:59 PM on May 17, 2017

I've been thinking a lot about R.A. Lafferty's story "Slow Tuesday Night" lately. It's from 1965, but it's starting to feel mighty prescient. Go read it - it's only a few pages long.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:03 PM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

Grab em by the Putinzie?
posted by vrakatar at 7:03 PM on May 17, 2017

The chances that Pence can maintain a firewall between himself and Trump are basically zero at this point. Same with the Keebler Elf.

2018 is going to be very interesting because if the Democrats can take control of the house (which seems quite likely at this point) presumably Nancy Pelosi would become third in line of succession to the Presidency. Democrats in charge of the house would be all scandal all day even if the Senate would be unlikely to ever follow through with a conviction based upon the articles of impeachment. Saddling Pence with Trump baggage now would be extremely useful in limiting Pence's effectiveness in the possibility that Trump resigns at some point.
posted by vuron at 7:04 PM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

kushner. flip kushner. this doesn't have to be some ambiguous 'what is treason' or 'is it impeachable' discussion. dude straight-up lied on his sf-86 (pdf) about high-level russian contacts.

5.4.11 Section 19 – Foreign Contacts
A foreign national is defined as any person
who is not a citizen or national of the U.S.
You must indicate whether you have, or
have had, close and/or continuing contact
with a foreign national within the last
seven years with whom you, or your
spouse, or cohabitant are bound by
affection, influence, common interests,
and/or obligation.
If you have, you will be prompted to provide additional information.
Include associates as well as
relatives not previously listed in
Section 18 (Relatives).
5.4.12 Section 20a – Foreign Activities
You must indicate whether you, your
spouse, your cohabitant, or any of your
dependent children have EVER had any
foreign financial interests such as stocks,
property, bank accounts, businesses or
investments.
Exclude financial interests in
companies or diversified mutual funds
that are publicly traded on a U.S.
exchange.
If you answer “Yes,” you will be
prompted to provide additional
information...
...

I certify that the above information includes all changes to my most recent SF 86 or since my last investigation. Changes, if any, are
explained under Block 3. My statements on this form, and on any attachments to it, are true, complete, and correct to the best of my
knowledge and belief and are made in good faith. I understand that a knowing and willful false statement on this form can be punished
by fine or imprisonment or both (18 U.S.C. 1001). I understand that intentionally withholding, misrepresenting, or falsifying information will
have a negative affect on my security clearance, employment prospects, or job status up to and including denial or revocation of my
security clearance, or my removal and debarment from Federal service.

posted by j_curiouser at 7:05 PM on May 17, 2017 [21 favorites]

For a long time I wondered how Trumpite lies would ever come home to haunt them. There were so many and so freely offered.

But today the WaPo story on the GOP leadership giggling over the thought of Putin paying off Trump amid acknowledgement of what Russia was already doing to manipulate the Ukrainian process came out.

Both Ryan and McCarthy's offices flatly denied it. Never happened, didn't exist.

Confronted with proof, they turned out to be lying. OK we were kidding, they said.

Nobody batted an eye. Why? Because when it comes to GOP vs the mainstream press?

No contest, anymore.

Next up: executive order creating prosecutorial task force to hunt and jail leakers.
posted by sacre_bleu at 7:09 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

When Deputy Attorney General Rosenstein said he would not appoint a Special Counsel, I assumed he was a Trump stooge. Now I wonder if he may have been waiting until he was certain Mueller would agree to the position. He seems like a hero.

Trump could have fired Rosenstein at any point, right? He had to adopt extreme camoflauge to appear safe to leave in place, without surrendering his integrity. If he exaggerated his disinclination to hire a special counsel, it was the menialest of menial sins.
posted by msalt at 7:09 PM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]

Good lawfare blog post on the special counsel satute and Muller
posted by shothotbot at 7:13 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

Pence was head of the transition team. He's implicated in basically everything just from that.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:13 PM on May 17, 2017 [12 favorites]

How can it possibly be that the head of the DHS telling the President to use a ceremonial saber on the press is basically the least significant news story of the day?
posted by zachlipton at 7:13 PM on May 17, 2017 [56 favorites]

it was the menialest of menial sins.

*cough*
posted by leotrotsky at 7:14 PM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

if the Democrats can take control of the house (which seems quite likely at this point)

Clinton's election was quite likely too
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:15 PM on May 17, 2017 [39 favorites]

Ok, how does all this trump-fire impact the Senate and Republican agenda? Is it so far out there that the third rail of American politics, social security and Medicare, is moot?
posted by jadepearl at 7:17 PM on May 17, 2017

As for Pence: Let's not with the HURR DURR GILEAD fanfic, mmmkay? I would be a lot more scared if Pence was capable/intelligent/charismatic/pick two.

It's probably a breach of MeFi potus45 thread etiquette to respond to something so far upthread, but this is just an incredibly gross and presumptive statement, because Pence has done quite a bit to make Indiana into a Midwestern Gilead. I see the original poster making this claim has a location very far from the Midwest, so as a neighbor of Indiana, let me break down what Pence did to destroy the rights of women and poor folks just a few dozen miles from where I live.

Recall the following things have happened to Hoosiers under his governorship:
Pence cut off funds to Planned Parenthood which led to one of the worst HIV outbreaks in state history

During his governorship, a woman was charged with feticide for having a miscarriage hospital officials thought she couldn't adequately explain

Pence signed multiple anti-choice bills while in office, including some of the most restrictive abortion bills in the US.

So yeah, please knock it off with the "stop freaking out about Pence" fake comfort. I have signed a card to be sent to Purvi Patel's jail cell. I know Indiana healthcare workers who've treated addicts who shutter at Pence's name. Pence is not the relief valve some people in this thread are making him out to be, at least if you have a uterus.

Reproductive rights are basically to pre-Roe state in many Midwestern states, so please kindly educate yourself before you think those of us terrified of Gilead under Pence are simply melting down. Unlike you, we've actually seen what it looks like up close and are suffering the consequences.
posted by mostly vowels at 7:18 PM on May 17, 2017 [154 favorites]

There's no chance the network anchors have lunch tomorrow with him, is there?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:19 PM on May 17, 2017

what impresses me most about the last couple of days is what an amazing job the times and the post did keeping their powder dry. they've obviously been working these angles for months and they dropped the first bombs at a vulnerable moment. and as far as i can see, the hits keep coming.
posted by murphy slaw at 7:19 PM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

leotrotsky: "*cough*"

You have to use the PEDANTRY: prefix on these things.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:20 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

There's no chance the network anchors have lunch tomorrow with him, is there?

They will. Even the most feckless anchor can smell news.

What it won't be is "off-the-record".
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:21 PM on May 17, 2017 [10 favorites]

Here's some spin: I just read that this appointment is all part of Trump's plan. He fired Comey on purpose. Russia meeting all planned and said what he said and tweeted as a tactic in order to force a proper investigation which will obviously prove his innocence. This is all part of his master plan to show how the media and liberals are wrong and out to get him, once and for all. And ha ha we're all falling for it hook line and sinker.
MAGA
posted by Jalliah at 7:22 PM on May 17, 2017 [17 favorites]

Last time Trump had an "off-the-record" lunch with network folks, it wasn't on background, so everyone just attributed quotes that only Donald Trump could have said to a Senior Administration Official for a few hours until the White House allowed them to use it on the record. When an anchor who just had lunch with Trump is reporting on a a word salad quote from an SAO, it doesn't take a whole lot of imagination to figure out who said it.
posted by zachlipton at 7:24 PM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

I just read that this appointment is all part of Trump's plan. He fired Comey on purpose. Russia meeting all planned and said what he said and tweeted as a tactic in order to force a proper investigation which will obviously prove his innocence. This is all part of his master plan to show how the media and liberals are wrong and out to get him, once and for all. And ha ha we're all falling for it hook line and sinker.

Please proceed, Donald.
posted by saturday_morning at 7:25 PM on May 17, 2017 [32 favorites]

I just read that this appointment is all part of Trump's plan. He fired Comey on purpose. Russia meeting all planned and said what he said and tweeted as a tactic in order to force a proper investigation which will obviously prove his innocence. This is all part of his master plan to show how the media and liberals are wrong and out to get him, once and for all. And ha ha we're all falling for it hook line and sinker.

I have to know. T_D?
posted by jaduncan at 7:27 PM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

you know, from the current vantage point
it seems like sweeping into washington with a paper-thin mandate, a cloud of suspicion, and no friends
and then proceeding to alienate the intelligence community, the press, and finally the FBI
may not have been 11-dimensional chess after all
posted by murphy slaw at 7:28 PM on May 17, 2017 [111 favorites]

Can we start referring to the whole thing as the Russia Treason or something?

Remember, remember the ninth of November,
The Putin-Trump treason and plot.
I know of no reason the Putin-Trump treason
Should ever be forgot.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:31 PM on May 17, 2017 [47 favorites]

I have to know. T_D?

No. It was on Reddit though so quite possible it came from there. I have read a few similar comments on Twitter. "It's all part of his brilliant plan! Ha ha you're falling for it." It's really sad.
posted by Jalliah at 7:32 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

> you know, from the current vantage point it seems like sweeping into washington with a paper-thin mandate, a cloud of suspicion, and no friends and then proceeding to alienate the intelligence community, the press, and finally the FBI may not have been 11-dimensional chess after all.

Huh. You don't say. And all those people screaming about how Trump wasn't fit to serve as President? Next thing you'll be telling me that they turned out to be right beyond their wildest surmising.

I mean, really. Who could have known? Surely the American public will agree to let bygones be bygones and let this administration settle down to the business of MAGA.
posted by RedOrGreen at 7:32 PM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

My worst fear is he drops dead of a heart attack while overseas

While I don't wish the further consequences you fear...for this part, all I can say is, "From your lips to God's ears."
posted by corb at 7:34 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

I want alll the tapes to come out, and I want him to make it utterly undeniable that the entire Republican party, every last man woman and wastrel failchild, knowingly suborned treason to steal an election. I want him on every channel still, naming them all.

Remember like eight months ago when we all reckoned that the rationale for Trump's run was so that he could launch Trump TV?

Dun't seem so bad now.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:34 PM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]

What is a T_D?

r/the_donald on reddit
posted by murphy slaw at 7:34 PM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

The President knew Flynn was working for Turkey and illegally failing to register before he hired him. Then Flynn did this. Trump kept him employed for weeks.

If this is not treason, then what is treason?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:37 PM on May 17, 2017 [13 favorites]

Nothing else is going to happen tonight right?
posted by Jalliah at 7:38 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

Actually what I want most in life is for Trump to be struck by a lightning bolt at Vad Yashem, after which he is left unable to speak or type, and must depend on the kindness of those he has given no kindness to.
posted by corb at 7:38 PM on May 17, 2017 [19 favorites]

Nothing else is going to happen tonight right?

other than the ragehol-fueled tweetstorm at 3am?
posted by entropicamericana at 7:39 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

I saw my first TV ads for the 2018 election cycle today.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:39 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

Another very disturbing point to make about McCarthy's remark's:

In May 2016, McCarthy signed up to serve as a Trump delegate at the Republican National Convention, breaking ranks with Ryan who said he still wasn’t ready to endorse the candidate. McCarthy’s relationship with Trump became so close that the president would sometimes refer to him as “my Kevin.”

So to recap:

- May 2016, McCarthy volunteers to serve as a Trump Delegate at the RNC
- June 15th, 2016, McCarthy makes his comments about Putin paying Trump and Rohrabacher, after discussing Russian meddling in Ukraine and the hack of the DNC

Let that sink in for a minute.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 7:45 PM on May 17, 2017 [46 favorites]

Dennis Kucinich (with Mike Huckabee) is on Hannity right now, going to bat for Trump, saying how he's under attack by the Deep State and the real problem is the leakers. My god. Breakin' my heart here, Dennis.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:47 PM on May 17, 2017 [16 favorites]

Neal Katyal (who helped write the special counsel regs): Trump could fire Mueller if he really wants, because the President has the Constitutional power to do so. The regulation says only the Attorney General can fire a special counsel, but the President could direct the repeal of the regulation. It would have to be a public process though, so we'd know if that started to happen.
posted by zachlipton at 7:48 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

I'm not affiliated with r/The_Donald. I had these initials back in the beforetimes.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:48 PM on May 17, 2017 [28 favorites]

Trump = Chaotic Evil
Pence = Lawful Evil

Both can be defeated, but you do need a different bag of spells for each.
posted by vverse23 at 7:48 PM on May 17, 2017 [30 favorites]

I was up all night long with an upset stomach so I've been home sleeping all day. Every like hour or two I wake up and check Mefi, blearily scroll through the thread, and there's like a new bombshell. And then another. And another. It's been a surreal day. I want it to end. I want it to never ever end.
posted by supercrayon at 7:49 PM on May 17, 2017 [15 favorites]

- May 2016, McCarthy volunteers to serve as a Trump Delegate at the RNC
- June 15th, 2016, McCarthy makes his comments about Putin paying Trump and Rohrabacher, after discussing Russian meddling in Ukraine and the hack of the DNC

So the question is: What did the entire Congressional GOP know, and when did they know it?
posted by Strange Interlude at 7:50 PM on May 17, 2017 [31 favorites]

Folks, I'm trying to keep the thread length manageable - as above, please try to refrain from extended jokey riffs/off-topic chatter. Thanks.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 7:54 PM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

What are the chances Jared and Ivanka both get brought up on charges?

I don't know why but this triggered a very sad revelation. I would accept the idea of a straight up stupidity defense for most of these people. They are so fucking stupid that a small part of me doesn't believe they're culpable. It's a very small part but god damn if these aren't some of the stupidest mother fuckers I've ever heard of.
posted by Uncle at 7:57 PM on May 17, 2017 [8 favorites]

Pride trumps buyer's remorse. That will change.
posted by davebush at 8:01 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

Turkish Embassy has released a statement about yesterday's (it was yesterday right? time is getting weird) violent encounter with Kurdish protesters and it's a DOOZY.

Groups affiliated with the PKK, which the U.S. and Turkey have designated as a terrorist organization, gathered yesterday without permit in Sheridan Circle in the immediate vicinity of the Ambassador’s Residence, while the President of Turkey was visiting the Residence. The demonstrators began aggressively provoking Turkish-American citizens who had peacefully assembled to greet the President. The Turkish-Americans responded in self-defense and one of them was seriously injured. The violence and injuries were the result of this unpermitted, provocative demonstration. We hope that, in the future, appropriate measures will be taken to ensure that similar provocative actions causing harm and violence do not occur.

posted by murphy slaw at 8:02 PM on May 17, 2017 [16 favorites]

I would accept the idea of a straight up stupidity defense for most of these people.

Criminalize stupidity.
posted by winna at 8:06 PM on May 17, 2017

JElvisWeinstein: I can't wait to hear about Trump on the road. That's where his Axl Rose-like discipline should really shine.
posted by Atom Eyes at 8:06 PM on May 17, 2017 [34 favorites]

220? How do you get by on two hours of sleep a night?

I have woken up to the thousands. My book reading average is totally fucked this year.

On-topic: Trump has done so many impeachable things. Why is this thing not like the other things? Is it that he's dropped sufficiently in the polls for Republicans to also see their angry town halls and worry? Is it just too, too Watergate-y?

For awhile I thought: his earlier offenses were their deepest wishes. The Muslim Ban, for instance, fit right in their xenophobic hearts. And could be passed off as "subjective" - "Oh, he doesn't sexually assault women, it's locker room talk. Oh, he doesn't hate People of Color, he wants to enforce the law. Oh, he doesn't violate the Constitution, it's for American safety." And this scandal was just too objective, too clearly wrong for even the non-MF obsessed.

But I admit: I thought alongside that, maybe the GOP was fine with treason in order to commit their dark arts. But it wasn't on their wish-list like the rest of the earth-breaking humanity-denying and class warfare for the rich.

Now, with this latest scandal, I am once again proved that I am not yet too cyncial no matter how cynical I think I am.

Note for historians: the latest scandal at the time of this writing was the Republicans chortling into their caviar at treason. The author realizes you will be reading seven-to-eight scandals from now in an hour, including the felony of hiring a know felon and giving him all our state secrets.
posted by hapaxes.legomenon at 8:08 PM on May 17, 2017 [12 favorites]

The Washington Post is slapping the receipts down hard on the table. Here's a transcript.

Given that McCarthy's and Ryan's comments have "[Laughter]" strewn throughout them, their claim that they were joking seems pretty reasonable.
posted by Coventry at 8:08 PM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

oh god, what if he gets up to give miller's address on islam and the entire crowd boos or turns their backs on him. he hasn't had to address a hostile crowd at any point so far, has he?
posted by murphy slaw at 8:09 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

One needs a permit to protest? That seems anti First AMendment
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 8:12 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

I 'm going to say thoughtless rather than stupid. Incurious, uninterested in anything other than amassing riches or pursuing power. This inability to think beyond their own interests is what got them into this position. Jared, for example, probably never for a moment thought there was anything wrong with seizing what looked like a golden opportunity to run the White House and play at politics. His father-in-law pulled off this amazing coup and why should Jared fear anything after that? After all, who fucks with the President of the United States? Didn't winning mean that Trump was the most popular man in America?

So what if Jared glossed over a few details on his security clearance? He was the son-in-law of the most powerful man on Earth.

Or so it must have seemed.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:12 PM on May 17, 2017 [12 favorites]

oh god, what if he gets up to give miller's address on islam and the entire crowd boos or turns their backs on him. he hasn't had to address a hostile crowd at any point so far, has he?

The chances of that happening in KSA are really astonishingly low. It is a dictatorship, and Trump is the head of a major geopolitical ally.
posted by jaduncan at 8:13 PM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

Surely the American public will agree to let bygones be bygones and let this administration settle down to the business of MAGA.

Prepare yourself for all the conservatives with no shame who will lecture us that we must put recent "difficulties" behind us, and join together to support President Pence, and why are we little snowflakes STILL whining, just run along now, the lines for the fetus funerals and conversion therapy form over there.

I said it in the last thread, get ready for the NEXT engagement with the enemy, cos Vice President Handmaid's Tale is really the one some of them would've wanted as #1all along.
posted by NorthernLite at 8:13 PM on May 17, 2017 [25 favorites]

Given that McCarthy's and Ryan's comments have "[Laughter]" strewn throughout them, their claim that they were joking seems pretty reasonable.

Yeah: if evil villains cackle while discussing their deeds and schemes, that means they're just joking.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:13 PM on May 17, 2017 [29 favorites]

I think the worries about the Islam speech are baseless. Trump will be in Saudi Arabia. Money and the collective desire to cling to power speak louder than religion.
posted by Behemoth at 8:14 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

Welcome to Hell (Jon Cooper version):

White House sources say Trump is cursing up a storm - ranting and raving. Yelling at staffers & using the "F" word. He's losing it tonight.

There's total confusion and panic in the WH tonight. Not just among Trump's staff but Pence's too. Real concern Pence will go down w/ Trump.

sadtrombone.mp3
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:15 PM on May 17, 2017 [35 favorites]

It is very unlikely anything like impeachment would happen before the 2018 elections, so worries about Pence-vs-Trump are likely moot for some time now, and we can both pursue impeachment as hard as we like, while being fairly sure to still benefit from the electoral drag of Trump at least until 2018.

I may be naive but I think the difference is that both Nixon, Reagan and Clinton were disciplined adults (at least, relative to Trump). Since Trump is willfully ignorant, undisciplined, and is under increasing pressure, and perhaps even more importantly, republicans thoroughly understand this, I'm hopeful things will turn out different than those 3 instances. I think he'll be forced to resign, or I think Mueller may move very quickly and decisively with the investigation, because every single extra day of Trump is a clear danger in international affairs.

Even with Nixon and Reagan, I think most people in government felt that it's almost guaranteed that they won't try to do something similar or worse as the respective scandals unfolded, so the goal was to slowly and steadily get to the bottom of it.

I think I'm not the only one to whom it occurred that if the investigation proceeded faster, Trump may not have been in a position to divulge high level classified info to Lavrov et al.
posted by rainy at 8:15 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

Seriously, what is Pence up to? I haven't heard a peep from him for about three months back when some articles ran saying he was the brains behind the White House.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:16 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

Where is Flynn through all of this anyway? Holed up, in Ankara, Moscow?
posted by Rumple at 8:17 PM on May 17, 2017

some articles ran saying he was the brains behind the White House

i think those articles were actually dissing him on the sly?
posted by murphy slaw at 8:17 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

I gotta point out that polling for the national popular vote was within normal bounds of accuracy, and 538 gave Trump a 29% chance of victory, which is not very unlikely at all.

I think many people thought, 29% means he's got one chance in a million. It's actually more like 29 chances in a hundred.
posted by rainy at 8:18 PM on May 17, 2017 [14 favorites]

Whoops, this one was actually last night (which doesn't necessarily mean it's not tonight as well): "White House sources say Trump is cursing up a storm - ranting and raving. Yelling at staffers & using the "F" word. He's losing it tonight."
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:18 PM on May 17, 2017

Welcome to Hell (Jon Cooper version):

The best thing is that this is from last night. He was already at DEFCON RAGEMONSTER even before the events of this afternoon and evening.

As I've said in previous threads: the only consolation I have had in all of this is that Trump is fucking miserable.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:18 PM on May 17, 2017 [47 favorites]

White House staffers would do well to heed the the classic AskMefi/AskReddit advice for people getting a divorce: lawyer up, hit the gym, and delete your Facebook.
posted by long haired child at 8:18 PM on May 17, 2017 [14 favorites]

There's total confusion and panic in the WH tonight. Not just among Trump's staff but Pence's too. Real concern Pence will go down w/ Trump.

You knew damn well he was a snake before you took him in.
posted by jaduncan at 8:18 PM on May 17, 2017 [23 favorites]

some headline writer at huffpo deserves … well to be paid, probably

Donald Trump's Advice For Coast Guard Graduates: I'm Doing A Tremendous Job As President
posted by murphy slaw at 8:19 PM on May 17, 2017 [70 favorites]

I mean, the transcript says "laughter" a lot, but this is funny why?

Funny from their perspective due to a rarely observed mentality around these parts: schadenfreude.
posted by Coventry at 8:20 PM on May 17, 2017

Seriously, what is Pence up to? I haven't heard a peep from him for about three months back when some articles ran saying he was the brains behind the White House.

He was out and about lying like a rug re: Comey firing last Tuesday. I suspect right now it's just him, Mother, and Jesus in the holy bunker.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:20 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

Yelling at staffers & using the "F" word

Flynn?
posted by davebush at 8:21 PM on May 17, 2017 [10 favorites]

I think many people thought, 29% means he's got one chance in a million. It's actually more like 29 chances in a hundred.

A distressingly large number of people seem to think that a 29% chance of Trump winning meant Silver was predicting that the popular vote would be 71% Clinton, 29% Trump. People don't understand probability at all.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 8:22 PM on May 17, 2017 [18 favorites]

Live shot of NYT & WaPo reporters. [SL Twitter, humor]
posted by suelac at 8:22 PM on May 17, 2017 [12 favorites]

Completely unsurprised that Kucinch is going full conspiracy theory.

There is this weird space where right wing conspiracy theory meets left wing conspiracy theory, a very tin foil covered space.

What's also interesting is that the alt-right also seem to be leaping onto a Trump vs the Deep State conspiracy. Of course for them Deep State is roughly synonymous with generic Jewish conspiracy.
posted by vuron at 8:23 PM on May 17, 2017 [8 favorites]

Strange Inderlude:
So the question is: What did the entire Congressional GOP know, and when did they know it?

Exactly. The joke angle is not really much better because it implies a couple things. First, that the suggestion of Putin paying Trump and Rohrabacher was plausible enough to be tittering about. Second, that the fact that the Russian Government hacked the DNC, in the context of a discussion about disinformation campaigns to bring down allied governments, was funny.

All this, while they're simultaneously making Very Serious Faces on international TV about the hacking and stonewalling any investigation into how Russian disinformation campaigns might be affecting our own elections.

So even stipulating that McCarthy's remarks on this matter were in jest, it suggests that several members of the Republican leadership team:

- Did not understand that the Russian regime's practice of using propaganda to influence elections was really happening in this country, but found the proposition amusing nonetheless

or

- Knew that the Russian Government was hacking fellow Americans, but actively chose not to investigate because the campaign was helping them, and then laughing up their sleeves at a hostile nation sabotaging a political opponent

I mean, this is McCarthy's idea of humor? They want to push this story as the "innocent" explanation? His communication team either did not think this one through or they are covering for something really fetid. Ignorance or malice hardly matters at this point because the effects have been devastating.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:24 PM on May 17, 2017 [38 favorites]

Given that McCarthy's and Ryan's comments have "[Laughter]" strewn throughout them, their claim that they were joking seems pretty reasonable.

Laughing that the candidate they're supporting is so obviously in Putin's pocket that he might as well be paid by him is not the defense they think it is.
posted by chris24 at 8:24 PM on May 17, 2017 [43 favorites]

Putin better roll those tanks into the rest of the Ukraine right quick. It's late spring, the fields are dry enough to support armor now.

Bonus points for Republicans: idiots will rally behind the king idiot so we don't look weak in the face of the blatant power grab.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 8:25 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

holy crap

pence is in it up to his eyeballs

new york post, 10/30/2016

Christie “said all the BS that Trump likes to hear, and Trump said, ‘Yeah, sure I’m giving it to you.’ ”

That didn’t sit well with Manafort, who had arranged for Trump to meet Pence in Indianapolis on July 13, and fly back together to New York the next day for a formal announcement.

After Trump tentatively decided on Christie, Manafort told Trump his plane had a mechanical problem, campaign sources said, forcing Trump to spend another night in the Hoosier State. Pence then made his case to be Trump’s No. 2 over dinner as Trump’s advisers argued that Christie’s Bridgegate troubles would sink the campaign.

(emphasis mine)

pence is manafort's man. manafort is putin's man.

(tip from @dansinker)
posted by murphy slaw at 8:25 PM on May 17, 2017 [112 favorites]

The best thing is that this is from last night. He was already at DEFCON RAGEMONSTER even before the events of this afternoon and evening.

The "oh shit, Pence is also fucked" stuff is from tonight, though. Advent of Mueller + new Flynn revelations = increasing likelihood of Pence perp walk.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:26 PM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

There's always a conspiracy against Your Guy, especially when Your Guy is an old white dude, because nothing is ever the fault of old white dudes, why, it's the conspiracy don't you see? People are so unused to seeing old white dudes not win at absolutely everything that they concoct elaborate fantasies to protect Your Guy rather than admit maybe Your Guy is fucking mediocre at best like so many old white dudes. Maybe Your Guy isn't winning because they fucking suck.
posted by supercrayon at 8:26 PM on May 17, 2017 [22 favorites]

The Seth Rich conspiracy theory is infecting more Bernie-wing media. First Adomian, now Jimmy Dore.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:29 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

I bet the next bombshell is Trump's resignation. He hates being POTUS - he hasn't even been allowed to blow anything up , it's not fair - and the grift opportunities are drying up. If he resigns, and he could use his health or Melania's or, hell, even Barron's as an excuse to gain sympathy, than he can stay in the spotlight by singing like a canary from his gilded tower. None of it was his fault, it was all the mean horrible other people who made him do it. He has a history of skating away from his failures and leaving others holding the bag. I bet he tries it again: resignation, in his mind, is just like declaring another bankruptcy and leaving the army of lawyers to clean up the mess.
posted by mygothlaundry at 8:30 PM on May 17, 2017 [10 favorites]

I can't believe it's taken me this long to realise that the Snake also has a little thrill of misogyny for the audience.

"Oh shut up, silly woman," said the reptile with a grin
You knew damn well I was a snake before you took me in"

All those readings and every time they got to tell a woman to shut up during the racism!
posted by jaduncan at 8:33 PM on May 17, 2017 [11 favorites]

Seriously, what is Pence up to?

Meeting with lobbyists, per this article.

In other news, a source told Peter Alexander that the Trump family had a "blind spot when it came to Flynn" and that Jared and Ivanka are directly implicated in the decision to make him NSA.
posted by zachlipton at 8:38 PM on May 17, 2017 [10 favorites]

And Pence's ass being headed for a sling leads me to predict that Paul "Loyal to the End" Ryan oh-so-subtly and totally not-at-all-self-servingly changes his tune tomorrow morning and starts expressing "concerns" about the White House.

I haven't called a damn thing correctly so far in all this mess, but I'm hoping the one I get right is that this all ends with President Ryan's "Time Enough At Last" moment as he sits waiting to sign his pet bills into law only to realize that nobody in Congress is interested in passing them.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:43 PM on May 17, 2017 [15 favorites]

Does anyone know where this actual article is? I keep clicking on the tweet like a madwoman and it's upsetting the cats.

I don't believe there is one, at least not yet. The tweet is it. Keep the cats calm.
posted by zachlipton at 8:47 PM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

From the Republican perspective the daily Trumpfire might be useful as long as it starves the oxygen that is the growing anger about Trumpcare long enough to get the AHCA in some sort of form through the Senate. However if Trump becomes so radioactive that a few more Republican senators are actually willing to go rogue instead of just posturing like they independent then things get really interesting because Ryan can barely pass stuff in the House and McConnell can only do so many magic tricks with reconciliation.
posted by vuron at 8:51 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

So Jared was deeply involved in both the Flynn hiring and Comey firing? Uh oh.

Ivanka may want to get working on a Conjugal Visit fashion line. Or accessories for accessories before-the-fact.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:53 PM on May 17, 2017 [23 favorites]

And here I thought the misogyny was the only fig leaf of an excuse for him reading The Snake at all.
posted by threeturtles at 8:55 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

Special Counsel Mueller has a broad remit which will presumably take a very long time to explore. My question is, how plausible is it that he can prioritize and recommend charges before his investigation has fully concluded? If the President has likely commited a crime, it is important for Congress to be informed as soon as possible.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:55 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

So I never heard of either of these people and went and looked them up. Both are as bad as any alt.right bedroom video blogger, and have the throughly minor careers as standup comedians to prove it.

Adomian is actually a great comedian and improv actor on things like Comedy Bang Bang and it super bums me out that he's gone down this road.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:56 PM on May 17, 2017 [9 favorites]

Trump has done so many impeachable things. Why is this thing not like the other things? Is it that he's dropped sufficiently in the polls for Republicans to also see their angry town halls and worry? Is it just too, too Watergate-y?

For the congressional GOP, the constant turmoil is starting to get in the way of their legislative agenda: tax cuts for the wealthy and selling off the social safety net to the highest bidder.

On the other hand, Trump's still popular with the GOP base. I think that if there's one thing we can learn from Milo Yiannopoulos, it's that movement conservatives will put up with anything short of pedophilia as long as you're making the liberals cry.
posted by joedan at 9:00 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

The way I see Trump vs. Pence is that damage from Pence can be controlled and slowed down and eventually rolled back. Damage from Trump is essentially the same damage from Pence + an unkown scary chaotic factor (worse than o'reilly factor!)
posted by rainy at 9:01 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

Betsy DeVos Wants to Kill a Major Student Loan Forgiveness Program
As part of its plan to slash the Department of Education's budget by some $10.6 billion, the Washington Post reports that the White House will propose ending the federal student loan forgiveness program for public sector and nonprofit workers
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:02 PM on May 17, 2017 [26 favorites]

I think that if there's one thing we can learn from Milo Yiannopoulos, it's that movement conservatives will put up with anything short of pedophilia as long as you're making the liberals cry.

*Gay* paedophilia. I'm still not sure a comment about how a little underage sex with a girl is OK wouldn't be locker room talk, etc.
posted by jaduncan at 9:02 PM on May 17, 2017 [16 favorites]

Trump has done so many impeachable things.

While impeachment doesn't have to involve a statutory crime, it would seem to be very helpful. Otherwise his actions can be categorized as "making America great again" in some way.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:03 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

Flynn, Page and Manafort are basically screwed at this point, it just depends on how actively Mueller will apply the screws to them and how many additional people they can implicate. It's hard to imagine that Pence, Bannon and Preibus had no idea what Flynn and company were doing and it's only going to take a handful of emails or other documents to confirm that.

If the FBI was the only thing that they had to worry about it seems like they could contain the investigation but being that Trump seems to have pissed off every intelligence agency in the US government as well as made almost every allied nation's intelligence agency an potential enemy the number of potential sources that mysteriously find their way into Mueller's hands is significant.

And that's of course assuming that Putin doesn't decide at some point in time that it's more destructive to the US to reveal the extent of Trump-Russia ties. He'd be able to go "look how corrupt the US is" how dare they accuse us of corruption and his domestic approval would go up even more.
posted by vuron at 9:08 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

Adomian is a world-class impressionist, which apparently carries some of the same dangers as being an Animorph. You spend too much time as Jesse Ventura, and one day you're not able to change back.
posted by Iridic at 9:14 PM on May 17, 2017 [27 favorites]

Is there any reason to hope a net wide enough to catch Pence would also get Ryan too? Or am I stuck worrying about the possibility of a President Ryan?
posted by straight at 9:15 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

Adomian is a world-class impressionist, which apparently carries some of the same dangers as being an Animorph.

See also, Jeff Dunham, who went off the deep end after 9/11.
posted by yhbc at 9:16 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

How could Dunham go further off the deep end since he was already a purveyor of racist unfunny jokes well before then.
posted by winna at 9:19 PM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]

Conspiracy theories aside, I will not see Adomian's name alongside Dunham's. Adomian's a great, great performer and seemingly a good dude and I hope he comes to his senses.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:20 PM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

A giant narcissistic crab monster who aspires to be more than a bottom feeder and overcompensates for his shortcomings by adorning himself with treasures.

Just saw Moana and thought I could get a break from Dumpsterfire2017 on its TVTropes page but noooo.

Also: wise political analysis and Animorphs references, I could not love MetaFilter more. I wish I could donate financially equivalent to the time I spend in these threads.
posted by hapaxes.legomenon at 9:21 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

The Capital Times of Madison, Wisconsin:

Editorial: House Speaker Paul Ryan needs to be replaced with an adult

It was once imagined by conservative pundits that Ryan might be the “adult in the room” as the Trump presidency unfolded. But there is nothing adult about Ryan’s absolute subservience to Trump. Ryan holds one of the most important positions in Washington, yet he is so subservient to the president that NBC’s “Saturday Night Live” portrays the congressman as a soda jerk scrambling to get the billionaire his two scoops of ice cream.

Ryan has brought this ridicule on himself.

If he had any self-respect, the congressman would step aside as speaker. He is not up to the job.

posted by murphy slaw at 9:23 PM on May 17, 2017 [37 favorites]

I think the Republicans are coming around to the idea that they need to get rid of Trump now, install Pence as prez and then try to eke out 20 months or so of semi-rational governance ahead of the 2018 elections.

Fuck that. We need to remind Pence and the Republicans every day that they knew full well what they were selling to the American public.

They have made the mistake of thinking they won the last election and trying to act like they have a strong mandate for governing. Which is utter bullshit. The reality is they didn't win the last election, they were just too arrogant/blind/stupid to realize they just lost less than the Democrats. Think about it -- they lost House seats, they lost Senate seats, and their presidential candidate came in second.

We need to remind them how badly they overplayed a weak hand and force them to deal with the Democrats and actually, you know, fucking govern the country.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 9:27 PM on May 17, 2017 [46 favorites]

Scenes from the Trumperbunker: How Trump learned about the special prosecutor

Trump handled it better than anyone expected, according to a person in the room. His reaction was “extremely measured,” another said. He didn't yell or scream. [...] Aides are now urging Trump to tweet and speak cautiously. "I think he actually understands what a mess this is," one person said. "He has lawyers telling him nonstop what the stakes are here." [...] One of the things Trump is most looking forward to about his upcoming trip, according to a White House aide, is a reprieve from the daily press briefings. [...] On Wednesday night, a person close to him said, Trump was in the White House residence talking to friends and associates about how it was playing on TV.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:31 PM on May 17, 2017 [9 favorites]

His reaction was “extremely measured,” another said. He didn't yell or scream.

yeah, well, i figure after three days of this shit your adrenal glands are suckin' mud
posted by murphy slaw at 9:34 PM on May 17, 2017 [33 favorites]

Adding a few items to the timeline-in-progress:

Aug 9 -- Flynn signs lobbying contract with Turkish-owned Dutch firm Inovo
Nov 10 -- Flynn meets with Jared Kushner, Ivanka Trump at Trump Tower, expresses interest in national security advisor position, is assured he'll get the job
Nov 18 -- Trump names Flynn as his national security advisor
Nov 30 -- Justice Dept. notifies Flynn it is investigating his lobbying work for Turkey
Dec -- Flynn and Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner meet with Kislyak at Trump Tower
Jan 4 -- Flynn informs transition attorney (future WH counsel) McGahn of the Justice Dept. investigation of his work as a paid agent of Turkey
Jan 10 -- Flynn instructs Obama national security advisor Susan Rice to postpone any action on the Pentagon plan to retake Raqqa using Syrian Kurdish forces, a move serving Turkey's interests and contrary to US interests
Jan 24 -- Flynn interviewed by FBI
Jan 25 -- Yates briefed by FBI about interview
Jan 26 -- Yates meets with McGahn
Jan 27 -- Yates meets with McGahn again to discuss his topics of concern
Jan 27 -- Trump has dinner with Comey, tries to get loyalty pledge, inquires about Trump/Russia investigation
Jan 30 -- Yates fired
Feb 10 -- Asked about reports Flynn discussed sanctions with Kislyak, Trump replies, "I don't know about that."
Feb 13 -- Flynn resigns
Feb 14 -- Trump asks Comey to shut down the FBI investigation into Flynn
Mar 20 -- Comey testifies to Congress that the FBI has been investigating possible links between Trump associates and Russian officials since July
Apr 12 -- Trump says "it's not too late" to fire Comey. "But, you know, I have confidence in him. We'll see what happens. You know, it's going to be interesting."
May ? -- NYT claims sometime around here Comey asked for additional resources for Trump/Russia investigation. DoJ denies the story.
May 8 -- Yates testifies to Senate investigators
May 9 -- Trump fires Comey
May 10 -- Trump meets with Kislyak and Lavrov, leaks intel.
May 11 -- Trump says he had been intending to fire Comey for months, would have fired Comey “regardless” of the Justice department advice.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:36 PM on May 17, 2017 [49 favorites]

Don't bet on a Pivot to sanity.

Cripes, tho, its leaks every second of the day. This is nuts.
posted by notyou at 9:37 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

His reaction was “extremely measured,” another said. He didn't yell or scream

He's fooling 'em. He wants the twitter phone back.
posted by yasaman at 9:38 PM on May 17, 2017 [36 favorites]

Seth Meyers is ON tonight ... when Hillary heard Trump thought he'd been treated worse by the media than anyone in history, "She laughed so hard the moon cracked." When Paul Ryan heard about the latest scandal breaking, "a chill ran up his nothing."
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:39 PM on May 17, 2017 [137 favorites]

I step away for a couple hours to get some work done and now I'm Tehhund
posted by salix at 9:39 PM on May 17, 2017 [89 favorites]

i totally heard this as the voice-over to the opening montage of the-future-movie-about-dt-impeachment. no lie.
posted by j_curiouser at 9:40 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

Pence really isn't getting out of this if things are at all as they appear to be.

The timeline on Flynn [source]:

December 2015: Flynn attends Russia Today dinner. He is seated next to Putin. Receives $33k for his appearance
April 2016: Flynn has DIA security clearance renewed. He does not disclose any payments from Russia
July 2016: FBI begins to investigate any ties between Trump campaign and Russia
August 2016: Flynn begins lobbying for Turkey. Ultimately receives $530k over course of his work
November 8th: Flynn writes Op-ed advocating better relations with Turkey
November 8th: Donald Trump wins election
November 10th: In first meeting between Trump and Obama, Obama raises concern over Flynn
November 8-17th: At some point in November, Flynn informs transition team of intent to register as foreign agent
November 17th: Flynn is named for National Security Adviser.
November 18th: Elijah Cumming sends letter to VP-elect Pence, including notification of Flynn lobbying company's work with Turkey
November 30: The Justice Department sends a letter to Flynn notifying him they were scrutinizing his lobbying work.
December 2016: Michael Flynn has undisclosed conversation with Sergei Kislyak, the Russian Ambassador to the United States. Around the time Obama put new sanctions on Russia
January 4th: Flynn informs White House he was under investigation for Turkey lobbying
January ~10th: Flynn reportedly delays ISIS attack plan that Turkey objected to.
January 15th: Pence says Flynn phonecall was unrelated to sanctions
January 20th: Donald Trump’s inauguration
January 24th: Flynn has interview with FBI
January 26th: Sally Yates informs the WH that reports about Flynn’s conversations were untrue and Flynn was susceptible to compromise.
January 27th: Donald Trump has dinner with Comey. Trump asks him for loyalty.
January 30th: Sally Yates is fired. Administration & Trump cite refusal to defend travel ban
February 9th: Washington Post reports that Flynn discussed sanctions
February 13th: Washington Post reports that Yates warned WH
February 13th: Flynn resigns
February 14th: Trump asks Comey to end Flynn probe. “I hope you can let this go”
March 1st: Media reports surface that Sessions had met with Kislyak, contradicting confirmation hearing testimony
March 2nd: Jeff Sessions recuses himself from any investigations/probes involving Russian interference.
March 9th: Flynn registers as foreign agent under FARA
March 9th: Pence says story that Flynn registering earlier in day as foreign agent is first he heard of it. Calls it affirmation of Flynn resignation
March 10th: Story breaks that Flynn had informed transition team of intent to register as foreign agent before inauguration
March 20th: Comey discloses Trump-Russia investigation by FBI. Rebuts Trump claims of Obama ‘wiretapp’
March 31st: Flynn requests immunity. Request rejected next day
May 3rd: Comey testifies to Senate about his decisions in Email investigation
May 8th: Sally Yates testifies that Flynn was at risk for blackmail and that she had warned the WH, confirming media reports
May 8th: Trump asks Attorney General and Deputy Attorney General to write justifications for firing Comey
May 9th: Trump fires Comey. WH claims that it was because of handling of Hillary Clinton email investigation
May 11th: Senate intelligence committee subpoenas Michael Flynn for documents
May 16th: Trump has meeting with Erdogan in White House

Impressively, Flynn isn't even the only issue. There's also knowledge of DNC hacks, any financial issues, if anyone else had contact with Russia, if the Carter Page allegations of a cut from the Rosneft sale are true, to what extent Kislak was tipping them off, the reason that Eric Prince went to the Seychelles, if anyone else save for Trump put pressure on Comey and/or the House and Senate investigations, if kompromat exists in either pee tape or money laundering form, and to what extent Ryan and McConnell had knowledge of any and all of the above.

I'm sure there's more, but those are the things that immediately come to mind. Oh yes, and the extent to which Manafort may still have been working for the Kremlin, and the extent to which Jeff Sessions had knowledge of that. Oh, and what Roger Stone knew about the DNC hacks and why he could discuss them in advance.

But I think that's it, so long as we are excluding issues that preceeded the campaign by campaign people.

On reading this back, I'm frankly unsurprised that few people have any remaining evens.
posted by jaduncan at 9:41 PM on May 17, 2017 [90 favorites]

I wonder if Flynn was flipped from a turkish agent to a russian one by one of the trump associates (or trump himself)
posted by and they trembled before her fury at 9:44 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

Has Sessions been fired for perjury yet?
posted by Yowser at 9:45 PM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

Hi, you must be new to this timeline. Right this way.
posted by EarBucket at 9:46 PM on May 17, 2017 [33 favorites]

we have had to tap the Strategic Even Reserve but if we are unable to replenish it from the global market soon we may be looking at a Peak Even scenario
posted by murphy slaw at 9:47 PM on May 17, 2017 [17 favorites]

Y'all I really cannot stop watching the video of McConnell getting the Mueller news. His face gives me hope. Or at least some schadenfreude.
posted by Gaz Errant at 9:53 PM on May 17, 2017 [28 favorites]

Interesting bit from the Salt Lake Tribune: Chaffetz’s resignation expected soon, Legislature-governor tiff escalates over how to replace him (emphasis added):

The Utah House GOP Caucus signaled Wednesday that it might sue fellow Republican Gov. Gary Herbert if he will not call legislators into special session to enact rules on how to replace Chaffetz, who House Speaker Greg Hughes said is expected to resign within a few days, effective by the end of June.

posted by zachlipton at 10:02 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

Y'all I really cannot stop watching the video of McConnell getting the Mueller news. His face gives me hope. Or at least some schadenfreude.

link?
posted by murphy slaw at 10:03 PM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

link?

Here we see the turtle withdrawing into its shell
posted by un petit cadeau at 10:05 PM on May 17, 2017 [87 favorites]

When Mitch McConnell smiles, my blood runs cold, the sight of it is horrific and always means the American people have just lost something vital.
posted by Oyéah at 10:07 PM on May 17, 2017 [17 favorites]

> If this is not treason, then what is treason?

Doing something like that with a country we are actually at war with.

Espionage, rather?

wikipedia: The Espionage Act of 1917

Enactment

The Espionage Act of 1917 was passed, along with the Trading with the Enemy Act, just after the United States entered World War I in April 1917. It was based on the Defense Secrets Act of 1911, especially the notions of obtaining or delivering information relating to "national defense" to a person who was not "entitled to have it", itself based on an earlier British Official Secrets Act. The Espionage Act law imposed much stiffer penalties than the 1911 law, including the death penalty.[3]

posted by sebastienbailard at 10:08 PM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

The alleged reason for Flynn's resignation on February 13th was that he had failed to tell Pence about his communication with Russian officials before the inauguration. That didn't make much sense even before we knew the Trump team had been told about it in early January, but now we know that it's either a lie - Pence knew and was keeping quiet - or Trump was let his VP embarrass himself with false denials on Flynn's behalf for nearly a month before the facts came out. Sadly, either story is plausible.
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:13 PM on May 17, 2017 [9 favorites]

Former FBI Director James Comey “most definitely” wants to testify before Congress — and wrote other memos in addition to the one claiming President Trump asked him to drop an FBI investigation into former national security adviser Michael Flynn, a source familiar with Comey’s thinking told CBS News.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:14 PM on May 17, 2017

Here we see the turtle withdrawing into its shell

Satisfying. Watched it on silent the first time through to see if I could pinpoint the second the words hit and was not disappointed.
posted by EatTheWeek at 10:14 PM on May 17, 2017 [31 favorites]

The alleged reason for Flynn's resignation on February 13th was that he had failed to tell Pence about his communication with Russian officials before the inauguration. That didn't make much sense even before we knew the Trump team had been told about it in early January, but now we know that it's either a lie - Pence knew and was keeping quiet - or Trump was let his VP embarrass himself with false denials on Flynn's behalf for nearly a month before the facts came out. Sadly, either story is plausible.

November 18th: Elijah Cumming sends letter to VP-elect Pence, including notification of Flynn lobbying company's work with Turkey
posted by jaduncan at 10:15 PM on May 17, 2017 [8 favorites]

a source familiar with Comey’s thinking

A source also known as Comey's brain.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:16 PM on May 17, 2017 [12 favorites]

infecting more Bernie-wing media. First Adomian, now Jimmy Dore.
So I never heard of either of these people
Jimmy Dore is a highly respected comedian, too. Of course, there are plenty of talented and/or smart people with foolish political ideas.
posted by msalt at 10:17 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

I think the Republicans are coming around to the idea that they need to get rid of Trump now, install Pence as prez and then try to eke out 20 months or so of semi-rational governance ahead of the 2018 elections.

I think we're all getting way ahead of ourselves if we expect things to start moving and changing quickly. (I will be so glad if I'm wrong. I will be SO GLAD if I'm wrong.) McConnell and Ryan still have a shit-ton of leverage on their buddies and they're laser-focused on their bullshit tax cuts and their anti-Obama vendetta. They aren't going to give up on that.

Additionally: Let's say Mueller really is the awesome guy for the job we believe he is (and I do, but I've been disappointed so many times already). It's going to take him time to sort through all this. Honestly, my first worry was that he'd turn out to be another shitshow, but my second and even more realistic worry is that there will be so much illegal bullshit it will take him months just to gather it all up. He's not going to jump the gun on stuff.

Don't count on this moving fast.

God I will be so glad if I'm wrong.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:23 PM on May 17, 2017 [23 favorites]

2018 is going to be very interesting because if the Democrats can take control of the house (which seems quite likely at this point)

Can we stop this, please? This is not going to happen. Count the seats, look at the gerrymandered districts, and stop saying this. It's painful to read.
posted by tzikeh at 10:23 PM on May 17, 2017 [36 favorites]

I bet the next bombshell is Trump's resignation. He hates being POTUS -

When he resigns, it will surely be with a "I don't need this in my life, and I really tried to help you people" attitude, but it's going to take something he can pin the blame on before he does it. Getting pilloried in the press isn't enough. Maybe when the House Republicans turn on him he can claim they were always against him, but the way his ego works, he can't just quit like Sarah Palin, he needs proof he's been a victim.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 10:27 PM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

A new Public Policy Polling survey shows Democrats now have a 49% to 38% lead overall on the generic congressional ballot.

“Even more notable though is that among voters who say they’re ‘very excited’ to turn out in the 2018 election, the Democratic lead balloons to 27 points at 61% to 34%. The outcome of lower turnout midterm elections often hinges on which side is more engaged, and Democrats have the clear advantage at this point on that front — 63% of their voters say they’re ‘very excited’ about voting in next year’s election, compared to only 52% of Republicans who say the same.”
posted by Chrysostom at 10:27 PM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]

Trümperdämmerung
posted by kirkaracha at 10:30 PM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

Interesting bit from the Salt Lake Tribune: Chaffetz’s resignation expected soon, Legislature-governor tiff escalates over how to replace him

Wait, so that coy tweet about having his subpoena pen ready from yesterday was a total load of horseshit? Gosh, and here I was ready to rail against any Democrats who would have tried to rehabilitate him. Luckily, Chaffetz is such an incredible shitbag that he can't wait even that long to get on the Fox News gravy train. Fuck off forever, asshole.
posted by Copronymus at 10:31 PM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

At this point I have to wonder if Chris Christie is saying, "I know my political career is in the toilet, but at least I'm not mixed up in THAT shit. I dodged a hell of a bullet."
posted by mephron at 10:32 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

Hatch is in business with Russia right now, trying to turf the Bears Ears Monument to make way for a Uranium mine. A Russian subdivision of a Canadian mining company. No Hatch. Though the Mormons have something called the Whitehorse prophecy, where a Mormon saves the US as the Constitution hangs by a thread. If he saves it like he saves wilderness then we are toast.

Unlike someone like Romney, I've never been able to discern much in the way of signals from Hatch that he takes his faith seriously (then again, I'm sure there are orthodox mormons who'd say the same thing about me).

I'd be willing to bet Romney had the Whitehorse prophecy in his head both when he took his NeverTrump stand and when he offered to serve on the cabinet. I wouldn't be surprised if it figured in McMullin's various motivations.
posted by weston at 10:33 PM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]

MUELLER may not leak. Everyone the investigation touches will, though.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:33 PM on May 17, 2017 [9 favorites]

A new Public Policy Polling survey shows Democrats now have a 49% to 38% lead overall on the generic congressional ballot.

I don't know if this is in response to my comment asking people to stop saying the Dems will retake the House, but if so, look at the numbers again, and count them against how gerrymandering works. How it takes an average of three D votes for every one R vote to elect a Dem in a gerrymandered district -- and there aren't three D votes for every one R vote in a gerrymandered district. That's how gerrymandering works.
posted by tzikeh at 10:34 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

I am aware of how gerrymandering works. I am also aware that at some point, the swing becomes large enough that gerrymandering is overcome - it merely reduces how many seats flip. And the conventional wisdom among pollsters is that an overall lead of maybe 12-15 points is where it would flip. It's currently 11 points.

I am by no means guaranteeing Dem control of the House, but saying it is impossible is not correct.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:39 PM on May 17, 2017 [28 favorites]

How it takes an average of three D votes for every one R vote to elect a Dem in a gerrymandered district -- and there aren't three D votes for every one R vote in a gerrymandered district. That's how gerrymandering works.

I'm assuming your precise numbers are just misspoken. Gerrymandering is the art of spreading out a 5% advantage and then losing by 60% in one or two districts. Gerrymandered districts are really very vulnerable to wave elections, because you want to be winning 55/45, but are super vulnerable to an overall swing. That's why it works, but that's also the drawback.
posted by jaduncan at 10:40 PM on May 17, 2017 [24 favorites]

the conventional wisdom among pollsters is

Not something anyone should ever rely on again. Have none of us learned?
posted by tzikeh at 10:42 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

Well, they forecasted the popular vote within 2%. I'd call that pretty accurate.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:43 PM on May 17, 2017 [36 favorites]

In regard to Adomian/Dore/Bernie-or-Bust types promoting the Seth Rich conspiracy: I feel like it's honestly their way of negating a sense of guilt. They know they helped screw over the country by refusing to support Hillary when it became obvious it was her or Trump, so now they're doubling down on the notion that Hillary was not only unelectable, but truly evil.

If your story is that Hillary was not only wholly and completely responsible for her loss, but the kind of person who would have one of her own staffers murdered...then it's a lot easier to absolve yourself of any nagging suspicion that you helped put the entire country (if not the entire world) in jeopardy.
posted by prosopagnosia at 10:45 PM on May 17, 2017 [45 favorites]

Also not every candidate is Trump. With an opponent like HRC. Polls and conventional wisdom should always be treated as estimations, but there's no reason to dismiss all of them because of one gigantic outlier.
posted by flaterik at 10:45 PM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

For light relief if/when you need it, step over to the SNL Alternative White House timeline as described in the Hollywood Reporter, May 15th: SNL's Yuuuge Year and tweet showing the print cover.
posted by valetta at 10:46 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

it takes an average of three D votes for every one R vote to elect a Dem in a gerrymandered district -- and there aren't three D votes for every one R vote in a gerrymandered district.

You're not at all wrong to state the severity of the problem here, because unless Democrats assume we are going to lose exactly that badly and are still willing to work like hell to maybe have a chance of not losing, we are totally going to lose.

But: nobody knows how many votes there are going to be, particularly in a time like this. There's statistics about voters, and their registration and likely leanings and all that, and they're probably good and we should be daunted and Republicans should be confident that along with their other tactics they may well get to continue to hold power even if they're criminals and everyone knows it.

But the votes aren't already cast, some people might stay home, others might turn out, and some people might even change their mind.
posted by wildblueyonder at 10:47 PM on May 17, 2017 [9 favorites]

While there are definitely 75-25 partisan split districts out there there are also plenty of ones that are ones that the Republicans held the house seat while also voting for Clinton. Add in demographic shifts making what were solid lean Republican districts into toss-ups.

Unpopular president + unpopular legislation and AHCA is incredibly unpopular is a recipe for disaster for Republicans.

Yes huge sections of the country are effectively red no matter what happens in Washington but there are some areas where the Democrats can make up some significant challenges. And that's assuming that none of the lawsuits that are currently moving forward in various states concerning the partisan nature of the congressional maps forces a major rewrite of districts prior to 2018.

Granted 2018 is a long way away and there is a possibility that the Republicans will actually try to pass something other than screw over the working and middle class bills in order to garner some votes but if Republicans are panicking about MT-AL then things are going really badly for them.
posted by vuron at 10:47 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

This is not going to happen. Count the seats, look at the gerrymandered districts, and stop saying this. It's painful to read.

Can you point to a good, recent analysis of this? There seem to be lots of informed people talking about a wave election to retake the House as a very real possibility, and I'd be interested to see a breakdown by someone who has taken the details of each potentially competitive district into account. Ballotpedia calls a flip "unlikely" but then their district-by-district listing makes it look pretty competitive, and they note that 23 districts with R incumbents were won by Clinton in 2016, which sounds pretty good to me as a starting point if Trump continues to implode as he is.
posted by contraption at 10:49 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

> look at the gerrymandered districts,

Gerrymandering giveth and gerrymandering taketh away. No matter how creative you get, you can't get too far from the natural distribution of seats without having some of your "safe" seats be 60/40 splits that can snap back the other way. It's an advantage for the GOP, but it's not an insurmountable one, and given that pretty much everyone reading this can remember when Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi was a thing, it's foolish to say there's no chance for Democrats to take the House given all that's happened already to Trump and his GOP enablers (and all that will happen to them between now and 2018.)
posted by tonycpsu at 10:56 PM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

I've been holding out on you folks because I thought this was posted already, and now I feel sad I've been keeping this quote to myself. Putin paid Trump? Republicans think McCarthy’s statement has to be a joke.

Rohrabacher agreed and compared the situation to a lunge at humor that had haunted him for years.

“You have to be very careful when you’re using humor,” Rohrabacher said in a short interview Wednesday evening. “I remember that I was trying to make fun of the scientists who claimed that cow farts make global warming. So at a hearing, I said, ‘Oh, do you think the dinosaurs disappeared because of dinosaur flatulence?’ ”

“To this day, you have these environmental wackos saying ‘Dana Rohrabacher believes that flatulence killed the dinosaurs,’ ” he added. “It was humor, but you’ve got to watch out for it. Kevin didn’t mean any harm.”

I still maintain that even if you accept that it was a joke, they turned a serious discussion of Russian hacking and propaganda operations, major threats to national security, into a joke. And they thought that Republicans acting as if they were being paid by Putin was funny. That's really not much better.
posted by zachlipton at 10:59 PM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

Apparently Erdogan's security beating up protesters on US soil has happened before under Obama. :(
posted by R343L at 11:00 PM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

contraption: Can you point to a good, recent analysis of this?

Sure. Just search "gerrymander" in these pieces:

Report: Partisan Bias To Give GOP More Congress Seats

For Trump foes, Democratic gains may remain elusive in 2018

FairVote's Projections for U.S. House Elections in 2018

Why the Democrats can’t win the House in 2018 and 2020
posted by tzikeh at 11:02 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

Democrats need to capture 24 seats to regain the majority. The party that controls the presidency loses 23 seats on average during their midterm election.

Trump is already in the 80s in terms of Republican support, dropping below 80% partisan support is radioactive. Trump support by Democrats is single digit and his overall support numbers are deeply underwater and this is extremely early in his first term.

This is before the Republican try to slam through AHCA taking away insurance from a huge number of Americans and possibly tanking the individual insurance market as well as destroying rural hospital viability. Yes lots of people hate parts of the ACA particularly the individual mandate but they'll hate the Republican alternative even more.

Ryan can't govern the House with the majority he has now because the Freedom Caucus wants to burn it all down.

I do think Democrats need to develop a stronger message than NOT TRUMP but even then that's becoming a pretty compelling platform.
posted by vuron at 11:02 PM on May 17, 2017 [24 favorites]

This is the scariest tweet I read tonight: "This is good for Trump in short term. Mueller won't leak. Investigation will go silent. Will take a few years."

OR it might be a blessing in disguise! Here's my current vision for the future:

1. Investigation stretches on for months, while dissatisfaction with Trump and the Republican party grows by the day
2. Wave election in 2018 --> Democrats gain control of both House and Senate
3. Investigation is completed; Trump is impeached and removed from office
4. So is Pence
5. Nancy Pelosi becomes president; appoints Hillary as VP
6. Pelosi steps down to reclaim her previous role
7. President Hillary!
8. Healthcare and kittens for everyone!!

(admittedly there is a weak point in the plan in that it depends on Trump not killing most of us between steps 1 and 2 through, say, a war or lack of healthcare.)
posted by Meow Face at 11:02 PM on May 17, 2017 [34 favorites]

“You have to be very careful when you’re using humor,” Rohrabacher said in a short interview Wednesday evening. “I remember that I was trying to make fun of the scientists who claimed that cow farts make global warming. So at a hearing, I said, ‘Oh, do you think the dinosaurs disappeared because of dinosaur flatulence?’ ”

“To this day, you have these environmental wackos saying ‘Dana Rohrabacher believes that flatulence killed the dinosaurs,’ ” he added. “It was humor, but you’ve got to watch out for it. Kevin didn’t mean any harm.”

...this story also revolves around him taking a real issue and using an idiotic joke to minimise it because he couldn't have an honest discussion on the merits.
posted by jaduncan at 11:03 PM on May 17, 2017 [11 favorites]

Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi mostly predates the Redistricting Fuckery of 2010, though.
posted by en forme de poire at 11:03 PM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]

Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi was part of the Democratic Party leadership that failed miserably in preventing the Republicans from doing the Redistricting Fuckery of 2010. But then, so was President Barack Obama. One hopes for better/smarter/stronger leadership going into 2020.
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:10 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

Anyway, I really doubt we'll take the House or Senate in 2018, but that doesn't mean Democratic gains wouldn't help us in 2020, if incumbency is such a big advantage.
posted by en forme de poire at 11:17 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

Can we stop this, please? This is not going to happen. Count the seats, look at the gerrymandered districts, and stop saying this. It's painful to read.

This has been fairly thoroughly discussed already, but since it may be been triggered by my post upthread, I'd just reiterate that, as others have pointed out, (a) the polling was quite accurate in 2016, and predicted the popular vote share quite closely; (b) the vast majority of new-president midterm elections have been waves against the party of the president since WWII; (c) gerrymandering makes seats more secure during steady times, but actually increases the size of the waves when they come because it deliberately creates a lot of low-margin seats; (d) the fact that we got Trump wrong on a butterfly-flap doesn't mean that we should throw all statistical models out the window. Political scientists have been studying this stuff for decades before Silver, and none of them think that gerrymandering means that Democrats will never win the House again -- most in fact think that gerrymandering's effects have been vastly overstated in popular media. All of this doesn't mean we shouldn't take every prediction with a large dollop of uncertainty, but whether we think it's 30% or 70%, there's a good chance Democrats can retake the House, and very good reasons to try to do so on the assumption that it can indeed be done.
posted by chortly at 11:20 PM on May 17, 2017 [34 favorites]

Re: 2018 and gerrymandering

Can't we just...iono, move a lot of folks from the deep blue areas to the swing areas so they turn bluer? Like a sponsored homesteading or colonization program...

This has been a daydream of mine since [before] the election--and yes, I am so painfully aware that this is merely a daydream. So wish I were a crazy billionaire who could actually pull this off.
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 11:24 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

Speaking of Congress: GA-6 is next month, Trump is in a nosedive, and electing Jon Ossoff means two House Republicans fewer need to be convinced to vote for articles of impeachment, should the opportunity arise.
posted by contraption at 11:26 PM on May 17, 2017 [27 favorites]

Regarding voter suppression, there is the known unknown of the Elections Commission that was executive-ordered in last week. When/if it convenes.
posted by valetta at 11:27 PM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

Mueller looks like Sam Waterston so we're in good hands. He's an honest and trustworthy attorney who will see the case through with an honest hand and sure judgement and....

OH DEAR GOD WHAT IF THIS IS THE UNIVERSE WHERE THE CHUNG CHUNG SOUND COMES BEFORE THE VERDICT?!
posted by downtohisturtles at 11:30 PM on May 17, 2017 [19 favorites]

Aaron Blake interviews Matthew Miller for WaPo: The guy who predicted Comey’s memos thinks Comey may be trying to take down Trump

News broke Tuesday evening that then-FBI Director James B. Comey had written notes in February indicating that President Trump had asked him to end an investigation of former White House national security adviser Michael T. Flynn. It was big news to the rest of us. To Matthew Miller, it was as predicted.
[…]
Given that foresight — and Miller's experience in the DOJ during the Obama administration — I thought it worthwhile to find out what else he saw coming down the pike. As you'll see below, he thinks that this is the tip of the spear and that Comey's actions suggest he may have been building a legal case against the president of the United States.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:30 PM on May 17, 2017 [8 favorites]

Depending on the prior distribution of voters, gerrymandering can simultaneously increase the number of safe seats and reduce the vulnerability to wave elections. There's not necessarily a tradeoff.
posted by LarsC at 11:32 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

If the attackers at the Turkish embassy where Ergogan's bodyguards, does anyone know where on the scale of diplomatic immunity they will lie? Could they possibly be arrested or charged for those acts?
posted by flug at 11:33 PM on May 17, 2017

(As a quick codicil, for those who want to learn more about Congressional elections, I'd recommend Gary Jacobson's short textbook, which is a great intro to quantitative political science research on things like gerrymandering, waves, midterms, campaign money, etc., and is nicely written but also has tons of footnotes to the voluminous literature on this stuff.)
posted by chortly at 11:38 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

immunity upthread:

http://www.metafilter.com/167031/It-has-been-0-days-since-the-last-Trump-disaster#7031494

I'm guessing we can't charge them, but can expel them and with non-authoritarian countries would expect them to be charged back home.
posted by sebastienbailard at 11:40 PM on May 17, 2017

RE: Democratic Party chances in 2018 . . . the House is at least a remote possibility.

But the Senators up for re-election in 2018 were most recently elected in 2012, a presidential election year and a bit of a Democratic wave.

That means, if I recall, that there are 9-10 vulnerable Democratic seats and maybe just 1-2 vulnerable Republican seats.

So absolutely best possible scenario is Ds picking up just one seat (not enough to change anything) and a decently strong Democratic showing would still have them losing 2 or 3 seats, which obviously is going to put them in a weaker position in the Senate, not stronger.

You can take a gander at the map and play with the possibilities here.

Vulnerable Rs are in Arizona and Nevada.

Vulnerable Ds are in Montana, North Dakota, Missouri, Wisconsin, Indiana, Ohio, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, Maine, and Florida.

That is not a happy map for Democrats . . .
posted by flug at 11:40 PM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]

Latest Breitbart spin is "How to Plug Leaks? Trump Under Siege: More than 60 Percent of NSC Employees Placed by Obama Administration"

Yep, that's why Trump keeps stumbling.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:42 PM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

For a week I've been wanting to watch my Netflix movie. But no. Every night reading the Trump thread.

Dude. I used to go to improv classes and craft classes and writing groups and knitting groups at night. I had hobbies. I had plans. I kinda sorta had goals related to those things.. I caught up on a lot of television.

But nooooooooooo. Now every fucking night I stay in reading horrible politics stories. I'm so not keeping up with the peak TV. I'm not taking too many classes because that would mean I wasn't home all night. I've hardly been to writing group (twice all year) and I'm not writing anything except obsessive politics blog posts.

GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR I miss who I used to be.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:48 PM on May 17, 2017 [51 favorites]

I wanted to write a book.
posted by rainy at 11:49 PM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

Yeah, just wait until NaNoWriMo comes around. Last year I was writing a book on presidents.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:54 PM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]

Erick Erickson explains why this is a Good Thing over at Fox News (no link, fuck them):

Mueller returns and Republicans should rejoice

Most importantly, however, it allows some breathing room between scandals. Now, the White House can say they cannot discuss the matter because of the Mueller investigation. Likewise, they can claim that any leaks must be false because Mueller would never leak. They can dismiss a large part of the story out of hand.

All that makes the appointment of Robert Mueller a no brainer, but there is something more important going on as well. The odds are that the Department of Justice would not launch this sort of investigation if they did not already have an inkling of there being no real issues with the president. If they were really concerned about the president, they would keep this in house where they could exercise greater damage control.

Democrats have been railing on about the president, convinced he worked in collaboration with the Russians to steal the election. There is no evidence of this, but Democrats cannot acknowledge what a terrible candidate Hillary Clinton really was. So they bitterly cling to Russia, which is the Democrats’ version of birtherism.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:59 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

So the thing about McCarthy's comments being a joke... he follows them up with "Swear to God!" Now, maybe it's different in Republican Swinebag but whenever I've ever heard someone say "swear to God" they mean...yanno, "I really am being serious here, even if it sounds like a joke, I mean that's really the truth."

So in order for the GOP spin to be correct, it means he has to be completely and utterly blaspheming, right? Like we are supposed to understand that when he swears to his God, that automatically means it's bullshit.
posted by threeturtles at 12:31 AM on May 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

That line from Fox News would make their point a lot more clearly if birtherism wasn't a thing that majority of their audience believes in and that the network itself aggressively pushed. Right now, it reads as "So they bitterly cling to Russia, which is the Democrats' version of a thing that we insisted is definitely true."
posted by IAmUnaware at 12:35 AM on May 18, 2017 [19 favorites]

The odds are that the Department of Justice would not launch this sort of investigation if they did not already have an inkling of there being no real issues with the president. If they were really concerned about the president, they would keep this in house where they could exercise greater damage control.

If they were really concerned about the president, they would react strongly to the firing of the FBI director, in order to exercise damage control and maintain integrity, which is what happened.

Because how the fuck could they exercise damage control while Director Joe Lieberman is purging the investigators?
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:42 AM on May 18, 2017

it's just him, Mother, and Jesus in the holy bunker.

i doubt that - it's probably been years since Mother allowed him anywhere near the holy bunker.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 12:46 AM on May 18, 2017 [24 favorites]

All that makes the appointment of Robert Mueller a no brainer, but there is something more important going on as well. The odds are that the Department of Justice would not launch this sort of investigation if they did not already have an inkling of there being no real issues with the president. If they were really concerned about the president, they would keep this in house where they could exercise greater damage control.

It's very telling that Erick Erickson thinks (or thinks that Fox readers think) that the job of the DOJ is to protect the President rather than independently protect the rule of law. Not everyone is as corrupt as he apparently envisages.
posted by jaduncan at 12:53 AM on May 18, 2017 [52 favorites]

I have much more confidence in Pence not to get into a nuclear conflict.

After seeing these few months of Burn After Reading levels of clusterfucked idiocy, I am less and less worried about this League of Morons. All of the state organs that actually do stuff are treating this administration more and more with the contempt they fully deserve - IC routing around the damage, military leaders being thrown under the bus so rapidly that I have no question they are forming their own contingency plans as well...

If Fucko tries to launch a nuclear strike, there will not just be one Arkhipov standing in the way. It will be the entire chain of command, openly laughing in his face and leaking immediately to the press...

"Go to bed, old man, sleepy time."
posted by Meatbomb at 1:00 AM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

My wants (in this sphere, anyway) are twofold:

* Get rid of these garbage humans, as many as possible. President, VP, appointees, elected reps who attached themselves to this abhorrent scumbag and his scumbag crew. Jail, resignations (why not both?) whatever.

* Jesus, democrats, please don't fuck this up. There is enough material here to create approximately 70 cajillion hugely damaging ads, there are endless awful talking points, the reshitstains have done that work for you. All you have to do is take advantage, and not even in a ~~republican~~ under-handed way. Just be strong and be relentless and fuck any meeting of the minds or compromise. Get that damn overton window back to where you can see it from the center.
posted by maxwelton at 1:02 AM on May 18, 2017 [10 favorites]

It's been three months since Flynn resigned.

It's 18 months to the elections in November 2018.

Have you got any idea what's going to happen between now and then? Me neither.
posted by Devonian at 1:42 AM on May 18, 2017 [20 favorites]

Trump, jetlag, and foreign accents should make for an interesting.... disaster.
posted by tillermo at 1:43 AM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

Didn’t Ryan basically end up as Speaker because it was a thankless, impossible job that no-one wanted to do? Whereas now it might give you a good chance of becoming president. So, if you were a Republican congressman who definitely wasn’t connected to Russia and fancied getting in the line of succession… is there any political manoeuvring you could do to replace him?
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 2:14 AM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

I have almost no hope for the House in 2018 and none for the Senate. As long as vermin like the Koch brothers are willing to pour hundreds of millions of dollars into controlling the government I think the Yellowstone caldera could explode, Trump could completely ignore it and the GOP would still do ok.

Tom Cotton is a vile human being and should never have even been considered as a viable candidate but the channels were flooded with idiotic ads and thus the little shitstain got elected. This will continue to work indefinitely. As for Orange Puppet himself, McTurtle and crew are practically Daleks already, so why the hell would any of them do ANYTHING to obstruct him? Unless he causes a market freefall, then someone might start caring. The fucker could go on Twitter tonight and say he is considering nuking Las Angeles and they would stick up for him.

Hell I'm not sure he can't make it until 2020 and then get reelected. He'll just keep lying, the memes will keep coming, the media will do the same shit it did last year and he will be fine.
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 2:41 AM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

I'm sorry folks, I know it's childish but I just can't keep it in any longer:

LOCK HIM UP!
ⓁⓄⒸⓀ ⒽⒾⓂ ⓊⓅ!
🅛🅞🅒🅚 🅗🅘🅜 🅤🅟!
ＬＯＣＫＨＩＭＵＰ！
𝐋𝐎𝐂𝐊 𝐇𝐈𝐌 𝐔𝐏!
𝕷𝕺𝕮𝕶 𝕳𝕴𝕸 𝖀𝕻!
𝑳𝑶𝑪𝑲 𝑯𝑰𝑴 𝑼𝑷!
𝓛𝓞𝓒𝓚 𝓗𝓘𝓜 𝓤𝓟!
𝕃𝕆ℂ𝕂 ℍ𝕀𝕄 𝕌ℙ!
𝙻𝙾𝙲𝙺 𝙷𝙸𝙼 𝚄𝙿!
𝖫𝖮𝖢𝖪 𝖧𝖨𝖬 𝖴𝖯!
𝗟𝗢𝗖𝗞 𝗛𝗜𝗠 𝗨𝗣!
🅻🅾🅲🅺 🅷🅸🅼 🆄🅿!
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 2:53 AM on May 18, 2017 [19 favorites]

Barring other staggering relevations of facets of the Trump-Russia scandal, it looks like the investigators fed tidbits to reuters to try to control the narrative for today.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-contacts-idUSKCN18E106
Exclusive: Trump campaign had at least 18 undisclosed contacts with Russians - sources

Michael Flynn and other advisers to Donald Trump’s campaign were in contact with Russian officials and others with Kremlin ties in at least 18 calls and emails during the last seven months of the 2016 presidential race, current and former U.S. officials familiar with the exchanges told Reuters.

The previously undisclosed interactions form part of the record now being reviewed by FBI and congressional investigators probing Russian interference in the U.S. presidential election and contacts between Trump’s campaign and Russia.

Six of the previously undisclosed contacts described to Reuters were phone calls between Sergei Kislyak, Russia's ambassador to the United States, and Trump advisers, including Flynn, Trump’s first national security adviser, three current and former officials said.

Conversations between Flynn and Kislyak accelerated after the Nov. 8 vote as the two discussed establishing a back channel for communication between Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin that could bypass the U.S. national security bureaucracy, which both sides considered hostile to improved relations, four current U.S. officials said.

In January, the Trump White House initially denied any contacts with Russian officials during the 2016 campaign. The White House and advisers to the campaign have since confirmed four meetings between Kislyak and Trump advisers during that time.

The people who described the contacts to Reuters said they had seen no evidence of wrongdoing or collusion between the campaign and Russia in the communications reviewed so far. But the disclosure could increase the pressure on Trump and his aides to provide the FBI and Congress with a full account of interactions with Russian officials and others with links to the Kremlin during and immediately after the 2016 election.

...

posted by sebastienbailard at 3:08 AM on May 18, 2017 [37 favorites]

It's reuters's story, I prefer the Independent.co.uk's title and framing:

Donald Trump campaign repeatedly met with Russia to set up secret communications channel and reported nothing
posted by sebastienbailard at 3:13 AM on May 18, 2017 [61 favorites]

RawStory/McClatchy: ‘People are in meltdown mode’: Inside the Republican donor class panic about Trump: Asked which of those developments tripping up Trump was most troubling, one major GOP donor and fundraiser replied, "It's hard to choose."

The source, who described the GOP donor community as "shell-shocked" and more inclined to focus on the House and Senate right now, ultimately pointed to the reports of pressuring Comey. If true, it "meets a broad definition of obstruction of justice," the donor said, adding that it's likely that Democrats would "go forward, at some point," with impeachment proceedings.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:26 AM on May 18, 2017 [14 favorites]

this is espionage, pure and simple. which, of course, can carry the death penalty. we may be looking at the first president to be executed for espionage.
posted by and they trembled before her fury at 3:37 AM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

this is espionage, pure and simple. which, of course, can carry the death penalty. we may be looking at the first president to be executed for espionage.

Of all the things that will not happen, this is the thing that most will not happen.
posted by jaduncan at 3:53 AM on May 18, 2017 [130 favorites]

well, probably not. i assume it sets a very bad precedent to execute the president. i expect Robert Mueller will be sending a lot of other people in the trump administration to hang though.
posted by and they trembled before her fury at 3:55 AM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

i expect Robert Mueller will be sending a lot of other people in the trump administration to hang though.

I expect that Robert Mueller will uncover some "improprieties", for which the administration will get a stern talking to, but nothing so serious that it would "warrant" an indictment.
posted by sour cream at 4:00 AM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

I expect the former head of our domestic counterintelligence agency doesn't fuck around with folks who commit espionage.
posted by leotrotsky at 4:08 AM on May 18, 2017 [18 favorites]

During the campaign, when it came out that the DNC "leaks " were actually coming from Russian hackers and I started freaking out about that on Facebook, my Republican cousin reacted with incredulity. "Who cares where they came from? Don't you care about the content?"

I told him I cared far more about the fact that Russian hackers were breaking into DNC files. Like Watergate, but with added Russian espionage.

He maintained that whoever was leaking the emails was doing America a favor, and that he didn't care who it was.

It's just funny to me how much the shoe is on the other foot now... Elected Republicans are so desperate to stop the "leaks" and furiously pointing fingers and I'm like "Don't you care about the content? Whoever is leaking this stuff is doing America a favor."

...but I think I would still be just as concerned as I was last summer, if I suddenly found out the "anonymous sources" for WaPo, NYT, CNN etc were Russian agents rather than American tattle tales.
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:27 AM on May 18, 2017 [32 favorites]

I step away for the evening, and now I know what a tesseract feels like, we got here so suddenly. A special prosecutor didn't even seem likely a few hours ago.

Death & Taxes with another great headline:

Murderer claims Trump tapped him for Homeland Ssecurity position
posted by Room 641-A at 4:41 AM on May 18, 2017 [11 favorites]

New cover of Time

And Donald has his phone back! @realDonaldTrump: With all of the illegal acts that took place in the Clinton campaign & Obama Administration, there was never a special councel appointed!

Councel? Really?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:42 AM on May 18, 2017 [40 favorites]

"It would be really really hard to retake the House" does not automatically imply "so let's just throw our hands up and not fucking bother," and in fact that attitude of ignoring potentially hard races helped get us into this situation in the first place.
posted by showbiz_liz at 4:44 AM on May 18, 2017 [29 favorites]

Councel? Really?

He even disables autocorrect because he won't have some goddamn robot telling him how to wryt.
posted by uncleozzy at 4:46 AM on May 18, 2017 [30 favorites]

What illegal things is Obama supposed to have done? I keep seeing this talking point from the right. I know they're delusional, but what are they even talking about?
posted by wabbittwax at 4:52 AM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

Being President while being born outside of the US?
posted by Too-Ticky at 4:53 AM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

He's tweeting again? Now? I mean, at least Nixon was drunk.
posted by tillermo at 4:55 AM on May 18, 2017 [16 favorites]

I'm also very interested in his new tweet which states that "This is the single greatest witch hunt of a politician in American history!"

Because I'm pretty certain the Salem witch trials might be, where they hunted witches.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:56 AM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

I have almost no hope for the House in 2018 and none for the Senate. As long as vermin like the Koch brothers are willing to pour hundreds of millions of dollars into controlling the government I think the Yellowstone caldera could explode, Trump could completely ignore it and the GOP would still do ok.

This is not helpful. Should the Democrats just give up and cease to exist except as a minority party in certain deep-blue areas? By that standard, we should give up the donkey as the emblem of our party and use the shrug emoticon instead.

This attitude is toxic and corroding to the future of our democracy. The solution is to fight for every single seat, "winnable" ones or not, "electable" candidates or not. There is a definite problem with too much outsider money in politics (and not just in the US these days either...look at the talk surrounding Mercer money and British elections), but "give up" is not, and is never, the solution.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 4:56 AM on May 18, 2017 [84 favorites]

"This is the single greatest witch hunt of a politician in American history!" - DJT via Twitter just now
posted by Barack Spinoza at 4:58 AM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

"This is the single greatest witch hunt of a politician in American history!"

I guess he might be right. It's pretty great.
posted by solarion at 5:01 AM on May 18, 2017 [161 favorites]

Isn't there a fair chance that a lot of Rs stay home while a lot of Ds come out to vote? Specially if the Democratic party does the work. Now, once of all it has been proved that no, both sides aren't equal, and that should help.

I think the biggest challenge for the Democrats is to be up to this opportunity, to have a strong party, a strong leadership and a strong vision and be in 50 states. Whining about gerrymandering isn't that
posted by mumimor at 5:01 AM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

I hope he feels SOOOOO victimized. That always goes well for him.
posted by wabbittwax at 5:01 AM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

Make witch hunting great again!
posted by Too-Ticky at 5:04 AM on May 18, 2017 [16 favorites]

What illegal things is Obama supposed to have done?

Presidenting while black.
posted by chris24 at 5:04 AM on May 18, 2017 [44 favorites]

Vox has a great piece...

Russian President Vladimir Putin loves to troll the United States. But he took it to new heights during a press conference in Sochi, Russia, on Wednesday morning.
...
"If the US administration finds it necessary, we are ready to provide the record of the conversation between Trump and Lavrov to the Senate and Congress.”

[Me - Oh, that's what this is... Trolling! That's why his denials are so fake sounding and he doesn't even try to hide the evidence... This whole thing was like a prank to him, and now he can't stop giggling when he says "Nah man, wasn't me!"]

Putin’s gloating tone in all of this is palpable. And for good reason: The chaos in the US political system right now, featuring an understaffed and incompetent government riven by division and scandal, is exactly what Putin was aiming for.
...
Russian strategic doctrine suggests that it sees hacking as a very specific kind of warfare. In an influential 2013 article, Russian Chief of the General Staff Valery V. Gerasimov argued that “non-military means,” including “new information technologies,” have eclipsed traditional weaponry in their strategic importance.

“In the 21st century we have seen a tendency toward blurring the lines between the states of war and peace,” he wrote. "The role of non-military means of achieving political and strategic goals has grown, and, in many cases, they have exceeded the power of force of weapons in their effectiveness.”

The goal of Gerasimov-style interventions isn’t solely to elect leaders who will pursue Kremlin-friendly policies. It’s also to exacerbate internal divisions in hostile countries — to distract them with paralyzing infighting that makes it difficult for them to counter Russian strategic moves internationally.
..
what is absolutely unquestionable is that Russia’s intervention in the election created chaos in the US political system.

posted by OnceUponATime at 5:06 AM on May 18, 2017 [31 favorites]

"With all of the illegal acts that took place in the Clinton campaign & Obama Administration, there was never a special councel appointed!"

...Mister President, might I suggest something more like, "I have not committed any illegal acts"?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:09 AM on May 18, 2017 [41 favorites]

Putin, czar of trolls

It's been rather obvious since the election that he is trolling big league and having a party
posted by mumimor at 5:11 AM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

Obama's "crimes" (National Review, not the Breitbart version which is much more lurid and less fact based, I'm sure.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:14 AM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

Trump isn’t a toddler — he’s a product of America’s culture of impunity for the rich

FWIW, this is something even NeverTrumpers are going to have to (1) accept responsibility for, and (2) confront in their own ethical and moral space. They helped feed this, especially in their whining in 2012 through today about how people like Romney were "mistreated" by the press and liberals, and it's high time they realize just positing themselves as opposition to Trump when they worship the same sacred cows as he does essentially nullifies anything else they say or do.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:16 AM on May 18, 2017 [57 favorites]

The Tea Party wave took people by surprise and realigned Congress, and it happened mostly because the opposition really fucking hated the president who had been elected two years before. Just saying.
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:18 AM on May 18, 2017 [33 favorites]

My current fantasy:
November 2018: Dems win the House.
January 2019: Knowing that the new Speaker has a possibility of becoming President, Pelosi steps aside and lets someone younger become Speaker. (It doesn't even have to be a member of the House!)
2019: Investigations conclude with clear evidence of criminal wrongdoing on the part of Trump and Pence. Republicans in Congress are obligated to impeach and convict, regardless of who controls the Senate. The Democratic Speaker becomes President.
2020 & 2024: Because they are not Nancy Pelosi, the new Democratic President goes on to win their first presidential election, and then a second, for a maximum of two-and-a-bit terms.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:20 AM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

A witch hunt is, y'know, hunting for witches. You don't hunt for _a_ witch; you round up the suspects and then you try to prove which ones are witches. If there's just one person accused of being a witch, you haul them in, prick them or whatever, decide whether they're a witch or not, and so on. You don't hunt them.

So 'a witch hunt of a politician' makes no sense. You can persecute a singular person. You can only hunt them if they're on the run, or in hiding. Once you've identified them, located them and started investigating them, hunt's over, man. You're into prosecution.

I know it's hard to credit that the President of the United States can't handle a simple metaphor,

Now, let's see if he weighs the same as a duck... hey, wait a minute, haven't they been installing duck ramps in Washington? And his first name... oh. my. gawd.

Heck, even his doctor's a quack.
posted by Devonian at 5:20 AM on May 18, 2017 [24 favorites]

If laughter signaled that Republicans were just joking then the Obamacare repeal was also a joke because they laughed during and after than.
posted by srboisvert at 5:22 AM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

Wasn't one of the "back channel" meetings set up thanks to DeVos' brother?
posted by emjaybee at 5:24 AM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

Councel? Really?

Not only does he ignore auto-complete, he ignores spell-check. Either that or he is hedging his bets because he didn't know if the word he wanted was "council" or "counsel."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:25 AM on May 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

The person he is accusing of a partisan witch hunt is the guy he just hand-picked to be Deputy Attorney General and who won the support of the entire Republican Senate Caucus. Go ahead and fire him, Mister President. Go ahead and fire the Special Counquelle too. Dig a hole.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:28 AM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

Witch hunt? But- but- but- I thought you welcomed a "thorough investigation"!
posted by Westringia F. at 5:30 AM on May 18, 2017 [11 favorites]

Doesn't he have a button to request coke?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:30 AM on May 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

Whiner-in-chief. It's not that no one's pointed this out before, but, I mean, really? I don't understand how his fans aren't embarrassed by so much goddamn motherfucking whining.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 5:32 AM on May 18, 2017 [47 favorites]

I don't understand how his fans aren't embarrassed by so much goddamn motherfucking whining.

Because they're whiners, too?
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:36 AM on May 18, 2017 [24 favorites]

Drudge Report is saying Roger Ailes is dead.
posted by drezdn at 5:37 AM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

FWIW Drudge Report has the alert sirens up saying that Roger Ailes is dead.

! if true
posted by zombieflanders at 5:37 AM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

Trump: "I'm not a witch... I'm yuge."
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:38 AM on May 18, 2017

well, its a start.
posted by localhuman at 5:38 AM on May 18, 2017 [13 favorites]

Alright, I need a bit of a reality check. I'll try to keep this short, but MetaFilter please help.

The last two years have been, mildly, fucking bonkers. We've seen everything we know about political norms and behaviors in America completely thrown out the window. Up is down/black is white/"M"'s are "W"'S and that most public political actions do not have the consequences they have traditionally carried. I don't need to relitigate the reality of this, you all have seen it, you know what I'm talking about. Right?

Does it feel like, just a little, the appointment of a special prosecutor is just the very smallest bump in the needle tilting back to "public political actions receiving the the consequences we would expect?" Note that I'm not talking about a return to "normalcy" because we're going to be figuring "normal" out for a long time. But I feel, ever so slightly, that the system is starting to work just a little bit?

It might not end in Trump doing a forgmarch out of the Oval Office, but the immune system the constitution built into our government to protect against extreme corruption and treason is finally, at long, long last starting to catch fever to kill the disease?

Just a little? Or am I now completely fucking bonkers and only imagining the potential of justice where none exists actually?
posted by Tevin at 5:38 AM on May 18, 2017 [17 favorites]

Damn. When it rains, it motherfuckin' pours.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:39 AM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

Either that or he is hedging his bets because he didn't know if the word he wanted was "council" or "counsel."

Tweet from OhNoSheTwitnt: "Trump was given 2 options, counsel & council, and somehow managed to pick a third, even more wrong than the wrong option, option. Inspiring."

Also a pretty apt metaphor for his entire presidency...
posted by Buntix at 5:39 AM on May 18, 2017 [45 favorites]

...Mister President, might I suggest something more like, "I have not committed any illegal acts"?

Yeah, "Unfair! They got away with their crimes, so I should get away with mine too" may not be the best defense approach.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:39 AM on May 18, 2017 [14 favorites]

I was obsessing over the whining earlier today.

Think of what FDR went through in his appearances as he propped himself up so people wouldn't know he was disabled. As a paraplegic, I know how fucking hard that would be.

Think of Kennedy's chronic back pain.

I read in Chernow someplace that Washington had a migraine that lasted for a month.

These people, and others, served their country despite their chronic health concerns. That's honorable.

What has this fucker ever done but be born rich and bullshit and whine and be a fucking demagogue.
posted by angrycat at 5:39 AM on May 18, 2017 [88 favorites]

That's different. They were mostly white people.

Ok, cool, I guess I'll just go ahead and get my red gown ready then because god forbid we do anything but complain about how we've already lost and are fucked forever
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:40 AM on May 18, 2017 [19 favorites]

The death of Roger Ailes must be very sad for his family. This is a sad day for them, I would imagine. They have my sympathy.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:41 AM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

They literally can't stop him from live-tweeting Fox & Friends.

@davidmackau
7.26 - Fox News: "There was no calls for impeachment, no calls investigations" over IRS/Fast & Furious scandals, Clinton

7.39 - Trump: [screenshots of 'councel' tweet and F&F]
posted by chris24 at 5:41 AM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

Whiner-in-chief.

I know I said I wanted to bring law and order back to the USA, but not that much law and order!
posted by XMLicious at 5:43 AM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

FWIW Drudge Report has the alert sirens up saying that Roger Ailes is dead.

Dead by gunshot in his bunker?
posted by Artw at 5:43 AM on May 18, 2017 [22 favorites]

I enjoyed reading the 2011 Rolling Stones article until I ragequit in disgust:

How Roger Ailes Built the Fox News Fear Factory

The onetime Nixon operative has created the most profitable propaganda machine in history. Inside America's Unfair and Imbalanced Network

...

posted by sebastienbailard at 5:44 AM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

The death of Roger Ailes must be very sad for his family. This is a sad day for them, I would imagine. They have my sympathy.

This is a day that I will wish every indignity that can be wrought upon a corpse to happen simultaneously. Pissing on his grave should be a grave insult to both the urine and toxins it contains.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:46 AM on May 18, 2017 [20 favorites]

Roger Ailes was a person.

He deserves no respect and no pity.

I will not rejoice in his death, but neither will I pretend his passing is worth more than a vague sense of relief that the world is a little less evil.
posted by Tevin at 5:47 AM on May 18, 2017 [45 favorites]

He's not dead. He just went home.

via a chasm opening beneath his feet and skeletal hands pulling him into a lake of fire while sulfurous clouds fill the air and a sepulchral chorus sings Nickelback songs
posted by delfin at 5:47 AM on May 18, 2017 [37 favorites]

I'm probably gonna rejoice a little.
posted by Artw at 5:48 AM on May 18, 2017 [25 favorites]

I don't care how his family feels and I'm glad he's dead.
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:49 AM on May 18, 2017 [52 favorites]

Sorry, when evil leaves this world, I celebrate.
posted by chris24 at 5:49 AM on May 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

> What was he wearing and who was he with?

Answer to both questions: an 18yo prostitute.
posted by Tevin at 5:50 AM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Looks like he is dead. Maybe make it's own thread so this one doesn't get derailed into a defacto obit thread.
posted by Jalliah at 5:53 AM on May 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

How many of these evil fucks are also unhealthy dudes in their late 70s?
posted by Artw at 5:53 AM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

The person I was who would feel bad when he couldn't stop smiling because some asshole who made the world worst died does not exist anymore. I'd like to say he died on November 8, 2016, but I'm pretty sure it was when the GOP had a big "We took your insurance" victory lap and busted open cans of Budweiser because it was a step towards rich people getting tax cuts and poor people dying more easily. Roger Ailes is probably one of the top 10 people in the world who made this (and every other shitty thing we're living through now) happen and my only sadness is that he didn't die 40 years ago.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 5:53 AM on May 18, 2017 [70 favorites]

WaPo: If you work for Trump, it’s time to quit (by Republican consultant Rick Wilson): You already know you can’t save the president because he doesn’t want to be saved. You already know there’s not another, better version of Trump getting ready to show up. You’re smart. You’re loyal. You’re sniffing the wind like a gazelle, nose filled with the scents of predators. You don’t want to break from the pack too soon, but there’s greater risk in waiting too long.

A strategy which works for those as quick and gracile as the gazelle, but other humble creatures have their own little ways.

For example, when threatened, Spicer retreats to the sanctity of the nearest bush and expresses debilitatingly potent bioaccumulated cinnamaldehyde from special skin patches around his neck and back.
posted by sebastienbailard at 5:55 AM on May 18, 2017 [20 favorites]

Folks, please hold off a bit until an Ailes obit post. Thanks.
posted by taz (staff) at 5:55 AM on May 18, 2017 [10 favorites]

Seriously, Ailes's death is bound to be incredibly upsetting for Trump. He was a longtime friend, even though they went through a rough patch in the run-up to the election. Add this to the current Kremlingate developments and his upcoming international trip, and we have a recipe for unstable behavior, even by his standards.
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:01 AM on May 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

Wow, he just can't keep from digging the hole deeper.
posted by yhbc at 6:02 AM on May 18, 2017

(Trump, not the late Roger Ailes, although that might work too)
posted by yhbc at 6:03 AM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

Ailes' death will be the excuse not to go on the trip.
posted by yoga at 6:04 AM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

Conversations between members of Trump's team and high-ranking officials including setting up a special backchannel for communications between the President and Putin, Reuters reported. That would allow the two talk without involving US national security officials.

It's a special day when this paragraph is just part of the noise.
posted by diogenes at 6:05 AM on May 18, 2017 [44 favorites]

If you work for Trump, it’s time to quit

Oh please no. We need the leaks. Hold off a while.
posted by Miko at 6:05 AM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

@JesseRodriguez
.@jwpetersNYT on @Morning_Joe says GOPers on Capitol Hill are starting to send around #PresidentPence memes

@Sarah_Boxer
"I've been worse treated than President Trump has" says @SenJohnMcCain, former POW, on @Morning_Joe
posted by chris24 at 6:06 AM on May 18, 2017 [46 favorites]

Ailes' death will be the excuse not to go on the trip.

when is the trip anyway? when does he actually depart? is it before or after the 100 senators meeting at 2:30?
posted by and they trembled before her fury at 6:06 AM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

I drove to work and when I got here, Roger Ailes died. Yesterday, I drove home and a special counsel was named. I think I need to go live in my car...
posted by Sophie1 at 6:07 AM on May 18, 2017 [88 favorites]

@Sarah_Boxer
"I've been worse treated than President Trump has" says @SenJohnMcCain, former POW, on @Morning_Joe

Yeah. By Trump.
posted by lydhre at 6:08 AM on May 18, 2017 [28 favorites]

Just keep driving back and forth. Get a taxi medallion or something. There are ways to make this work.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 6:10 AM on May 18, 2017 [59 favorites]

Conversations between members of Trump's team and high-ranking officials including setting up a special backchannel for communications between the President and Putin, Reuters reported. That would allow the two talk without involving US national security officials.

Awwww, that's cute.
posted by fullerine at 6:11 AM on May 18, 2017 [10 favorites]

@Sarah_Boxer. "I've been worse treated than President Trump has" says @SenJohnMcCain, former POW, on @Morning_Joe

Next: "Tiger cages are no big deal" - Trump [fake, probably]
posted by corb at 6:12 AM on May 18, 2017

The only negative feeling I have about Ailes' death is "but now he can't testify about Russia."
posted by schadenfrau at 6:13 AM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

BREAKING: Deputy AG appointing special counsel to take over the Russia investigation; it's ex-FBI Director Robert Mueller

I would imagine at the very least that Team Trump gets the message that anything they do to help cover up whatever Trump is trying to cover up carries a very real risk of criminal prosecution. They can't count on complicit Congressional Republicans to bury the matter.

Speaking of criminal charges, since I am confident they will have Flynn dead to rights, I wonder what kind of information he might give up in order to make a deal? This investigation could have serious leverage, and it appears Mueller has experience rolling up witnesses for Mafia trials.
posted by Gelatin at 6:14 AM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

I drove to work and when I got here, Roger Ailes died. Yesterday, I drove home and a special counsel was named. I think I need to go live in my car...

here's fifty bucks, go fill your tank.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 6:14 AM on May 18, 2017 [59 favorites]

"I've been worse treated than President Trump has" says @SenJohnMcCain, former POW, on @Morning_Joe

Doesn't count if you enjoy it.
posted by Artw at 6:14 AM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

I don't think people are thinking through how gerrymandering works. Maybe I'm out to lunch, please correct me if I'm wrong.But the basic technique of gerrymandering is moving voters out of your safe districts into more competitive ones, reducing your 65-35 districts to 55-45 while changing your opponents' 55-45 districts to 45-55 losers in the same process.

This is correct for the kind of gerrymandering we're talking about.

But there's other kinds too, which is I think where people get understandably a little mixed up. Gerrymandering is just drawing district lines to help someone, and/or hurt someone else. That's it.

One way gerrymandering really does happen, especially in states with divided government that haven't gained or lost a seat, is basically incumbent protection. Districts get tweaked to, mostly, favor existing incumbents, so most seats get a little bit safer. The targets here are individual districts -- we'll make Alice's district a little more friendly to Alice and Bob's a little more friendly to Bob. This is the kind of gerrymandering that makes people think it's been causing polarization, which it hasn't.

Partisan (and racial) gerrymandering look very different -- the goals there are not to do anything in particular to any given district, but to more-or-less maximize the seat share of the local in-party (or whites). This is the kind of gerrymandering where you seek as many slim majorities as you can, and if you have to give the local out-party any seats you pack those districts full to make it easier to create more 55/45 districts. This is the NY Senate, NC, PA, etc.

So anyway it's understandable that people would think gerrymandering does X and not-X at the same time, because just "gerrymandering" as a general idea does. But a few things are absolutely inescapable.

(1) If you see a bunch of Democratic safe seats, that's a Republican gerrymander, not a Democratic one. And the reverse.

(2) Maximizing the number of competitive districts is the same thing as a partisan gerrymander in favor of the local minority party -- this seems to be more or less what happened to NY's US House delegation when districting got thrown to a judge.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:15 AM on May 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

Trump is probably sad that he hasn't got around to having a sex scandal yet.
posted by drezdn at 6:17 AM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

He probably hasn't gotten laid since Russia.
posted by Artw at 6:18 AM on May 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

I'm giving 4.5 stars to the writers/leakers of this narrative. They're doing a great job of setting the stage, revealing just enough to create some good plot tension and adding a few twists and turns to keep people engaged.
posted by Jalliah at 6:20 AM on May 18, 2017 [26 favorites]

Do you think each person in line for presidential succession is having a staffer go through their files to figure out what dirt they have on the person above them?
posted by drezdn at 6:21 AM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

[Folks, please hold off a bit until an Ailes obit post. Thanks.]

I concur. Let's make sure the brain stem is gone.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:23 AM on May 18, 2017 [23 favorites]

Do you think each person in line for presidential succession is having a staffer go through their files to figure out what dirt they have on the person above them?

I wouldn't lay odds on half of Trump's Cabinet knowing they're in the succession.
posted by Etrigan at 6:27 AM on May 18, 2017 [16 favorites]

I drove to work and when I got here, Roger Ailes died. Yesterday, I drove home and a special counsel was named. I think I need to go live in my car...

MeFites: Please avoid doing your Magical Driving and Magical Napping at the same time.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:31 AM on May 18, 2017 [27 favorites]

Shockingly, I sort of agree with Trump - not that this is the biggest witch hunt in history - but he's correct in that people are out to get him. There are thousands, if not millions, of people scrutinizing his every move, every second, every day. His past actions all but dared us to do so. This is a situation of his own making - karma is a bitch, as they say. It really wouldn't have been that difficult to orchestrate his first 100 days in a more restrained manner and still achieve his goals. Major fail, dude.
posted by double bubble at 6:31 AM on May 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

Obama and Clinton should respond to Trump's "Witch hunt" comment with the Kermit sipping tea meme. (This is where we are in 2017)
posted by drezdn at 6:32 AM on May 18, 2017 [15 favorites]

I am 1000% out to get him. I want him gone from my life, the sooner the better. Humiliation and imprisonment would be a nice bonus.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:36 AM on May 18, 2017 [38 favorites]

Pence Creates PAC ahead of 2018, 2020 Elections:

Vice President Mike Pence is launching his own PAC — the "Great America Committee" — to aid his own future political interests, including helping Republican candidates ahead of the 2018 midterms.

The group, which filed paperwork with the FEC on Wednesday, will be able to use the funds to cover the costs of the vice president's travels on Air Force Two to campaign on behalf of GOP candidates across the country.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:39 AM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

Let's keep the Ailes discussion in here for now.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane (staff) at 6:40 AM on May 18, 2017

Let's see:

1. Mueller appointed Special Counsel
2. Republican house leaders on tape discussing Russian funding of Trump (and then lying about it)
3. Roger Ailes dead

...and they say Christmas comes but once a year!
posted by leotrotsky at 6:41 AM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

Tiger cages are no big deal
tiger cages were our side
posted by thelonius at 6:41 AM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

This is the single greatest witch hunt of a politician in American history!

Remember when elected members of Congress refused to state that the sitting President of the United States was an actual citizen?
posted by PenDevil at 6:41 AM on May 18, 2017 [38 favorites]

I wonder whether Trump thinks that anything that happens to him is the biggest version of that thing ever because he's so important, or whether he thinks that he's so important because of all of these biggest versions of things that have happened to him.
posted by Etrigan at 6:43 AM on May 18, 2017

[Let's keep the Ailes discussion in here for now.]

Great! I've been holding this in since I heard:

lol he ded
posted by entropicamericana at 6:45 AM on May 18, 2017 [22 favorites]

And not just a Trump fail...really, Bannon? Aren't you supposed to be an evil genius? You didn't see all this coming?!?!
posted by double bubble at 6:45 AM on May 18, 2017

MeFites: Please avoid doing your Magical Driving and Magical Napping at the same time.

No way, if half of us drive around, each with a napping Mefite in the passenger seat, there's a good chance we'll come back to news of first contact with aliens who bring us Fully Automated Luxury Communism.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:45 AM on May 18, 2017 [28 favorites]

[Let's keep the Ailes discussion in here for now.]

🍾
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 6:46 AM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

Mourning across the world for the late Roger Ailes [real great news]
posted by byanyothername at 6:46 AM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

It's been 37 hours since Trump tweeted. (There's been a few staff tweets.) The pressure must be building. Tick tock.

He made it 47.5 hours before the siren call of Fox & Friends got him. Maybe someday he'll go a full two days.
posted by chris24 at 6:48 AM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

Remember when elected members of Congress refused to state that the sitting President of the United States was an actual citizen?
posted by PenDevil at 8:41 AM on 5/18

If you want Donald J Trump to connect the dots there you're going to have to use his full name.
posted by that's how you get ants at 6:48 AM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

"Death demands a humane response. Our thoughts & prayers should be with the countless women Roger Ailes sexually assaulted & humiliated."
[SLT]
posted by Tevin at 6:49 AM on May 18, 2017 [108 favorites]

A word on the Presidential succession order:

It's irrelevant, outside of a single catastrophic event. What happens if the VP takes over or quits? A new VP gets appointed, and takes office when confirmed by Congress. That may take a couple of weeks.

OK, so that might take awhile. Things can move fast when impeachment trials are ongoing. So who's next? The Speaker of the House. What happens if the Speaker takes over? The very next thing the House does is elect a new Speaker.

OK, but Speaker elections have dragged on before (like in 1855). Next up is the President pro tem of the Senate. What happens if he takes over? The President pro tem of the Senate is the longest-serving member of the majority party. They would actually have to vote on a new one, but that would take no more than a couple of days to formalize it (Thad Cochran of Mississippi, then Chuck Grassley.)

It will never get to the Cabinet. Don't worry about those guys.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:49 AM on May 18, 2017 [15 favorites]

I was at a happy hour enjoying some delicious tacos and a margarita when the special counsel news broke, so clearly that's what I need to do every day.
posted by emjaybee at 6:49 AM on May 18, 2017 [19 favorites]

This is a situation of his own making - karma is a bitch, as they say. It really wouldn't have been that difficult to orchestrate his first 100 days in a more restrained manner and still achieve his goals. Major fail, dude.

Dude's been running around sowing chaos, screwing people, making enemies, and generally fucking things up his entire life (70 years!), and has only managed to avoid any consequences so far by throwing his father's money at all his disasters.

Money won't fix this one.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:50 AM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

Remember when elected members of Congress refused to state that the sitting President of the United States was an actual citizen?
posted by PenDevil at 8:41 AM on 5/18

If you want Donald J Trump to connect the dots there you're going to have to use his full name.

...and short sentences. ...with small words. ...and lots of pictures.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:52 AM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

> has only managed to avoid any consequences so far by throwing his father's money at all his disasters.

And forcing his employees to sign NDAs to silence them if/when they see something crooked.

Notably, you can't force federal employees to sign an NDA (right?).

I like to imagine at one point Trump realized this and thought "Well, they'll be loyal to me, it won't be a problem I'm sure. I'm great! Everyone loves me!"

Meanwhile the staff who hate him are leaking to any Tom, Dick, or Henrietta holding a pen who might have a third-party connection to a newspaper.
posted by Tevin at 6:53 AM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

It will never get to the Cabinet. Don't worry about those guys.

This is an administration and a Congressional leadership that campaigned on one thing for six years and then took 106 days and two tries to pass it through one house. If someone popped their head over my cubicle and said "I've traveled back from 2021 to tell you to put money on President Eleanor Holmes Norton winning re-election," I would ask them where I could get the best odds.
posted by Etrigan at 6:56 AM on May 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

Nice cover of TIME
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:57 AM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

Money can get you into the White House, but it can't make your presidency a success. I guess there is a message of hope in there? Sorta?
posted by double bubble at 6:57 AM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

I guess there is a message of hope in there? Sorta?

Nope. Not one.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:59 AM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

the thing that keeps going around in my head is
if he was just slightly smarter this could have worked
but then
if he was slightly smarter, would he have been able to speak the language of low-information american bigotry so well?

The Republican party has been threading that needle since the Southern Strategy. The trick will be to brand Trump's whole message (white nationalism, know-nothingism, etc.) as the product of treasonous interference by foreign dictators, and so to pollute any Trump 2.0 folks with the taint of treason.

"Oh, you don't like immigrants, like Trump? Sounds like someone might fond of a little light treason. You want some borscht?"

Republicans painted the social justice movements of the Left as 'pinko communism' for two generations. Now it's time to turn the tables.

...and that's why I would like to see some death penalties handed down. Pour encourager les autres.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:00 AM on May 18, 2017 [29 favorites]

The hits keep coming!

Politico: Trump weighs downsizing Spicer’s public role : One senior White House official said deputy press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders will likely appear at the podium more often going forward, while Spicer will keep a senior role in the administration. Another official said to expect fewer on-camera briefings in general — something that the administration has been toying with since Trump entered office.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:03 AM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

...and that's why I would like to see some death penalties handed down. Pour encourager les autres.

Do you want icepicks? Because this is how you get icepicks.
posted by Dr Dracator at 7:05 AM on May 18, 2017 [10 favorites]

The latest Intercepted podcast is pretty spot on on.
It raises a few good points. Don't attribute to a complicated conspiracy with russia what could easily be explained by gross incompetence, and good old fashioned idiocy.
posted by _Synesthesia_ at 7:06 AM on May 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

I'm worried about what MAGAs will do if he's impeached. I have no idea what they do if he resigns.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:07 AM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

Reports that Ailes died peacefully in his sleep, decapitated by roving lesbian gangs
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:07 AM on May 18, 2017 [77 favorites]

The biggest witch hunt in American history! he bleats. Except for the witch hunt for commies in the fifties? or the actual witch hunts where they were looking for witches in colonial America?

I'm reminded of when he said Nafta was the worst trade deal in American history, forgetting the slave trade.
posted by adept256 at 7:08 AM on May 18, 2017 [10 favorites]

I'm worried about what MAGAs will do if he's impeached.

There's already nazis marching everywhere from him winning, I'm less worried that kicking him out will make them worse.
posted by Artw at 7:09 AM on May 18, 2017 [17 favorites]

In my wildest fantasies, the MAGAs will blame "the swamp" just as much as they blame the libural media, and will refuse to participate in the upcoming elections(and especially the midterms) as they become disillusioned with their hopes and dreams of the 4(5th)chan Commander-in-Chief.
posted by Twain Device at 7:09 AM on May 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

And I just heard roger ailes is dead. also I should probably toss that coleslaw in my fridge.
posted by adept256 at 7:09 AM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

If they could refuse to take any government money that would be great too.
posted by Artw at 7:10 AM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

I'm worried about what MAGAs will do if he's impeached. I have no idea what they do if he resigns.

my gut tells me that the vast majority of MAGAhats are cosplaying as the fascist militia and will go back to writing facebook screeds in their underwear when this all collapses

i hope i'm right
posted by murphy slaw at 7:12 AM on May 18, 2017 [38 favorites]

roger ailes died as he lived, making america worse by simply existing.
posted by murphy slaw at 7:13 AM on May 18, 2017 [13 favorites]

Somewhere out there is something much more dangerous.

I wonder if Trump has provoked an healthy immune response in the bureaucratic state of the US Government. Depending upon how deep this goes (and how many folks get arrested, convicted, imprisoned), it could be that Republicans have less ability to 1. disenfranchise voters 2. racially gerrymander 3. push back on (for example) FBI investigations of white nationalist terrorism going forward.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:13 AM on May 18, 2017 [10 favorites]

I also wonder about the future of the Supreme Court.

I would bet Kennedy is much less likely to retire this summer than he previously signaled. Who wants your successor appointed by a likely traitor?

...and what about Gorsuch? Is he going to have an asterisk next to his appointment for the rest of his term? Is he going to be seen as illegitimate? Depending upon how deep the rabbit hole goes regarding the outcome of the 2016 election, there may be serious questions regarding the legitimacy of the result.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:16 AM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

The people grieving right now, I suppose, are those who will never see ailes held to justice. Not earthly justice at least. maybe he's getting familiar with goebbels right now.
posted by adept256 at 7:17 AM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

and what about Gorsuch? Is he going to have an asterisk next to his appointment for the rest of his term? Is he going to be seen as illegitimate?

No matter what we discover about Trumpian skulduggery, it's likely that we won't find out that he actually stole the election. Trump's the legit Pres, until he's not, so Gorsuch is a legit Supreme.
posted by dis_integration at 7:18 AM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

I'm worried about what MAGAs will do if he's impeached. I have no idea what they do if he resign

If and when he goes down, a small (single digit percentage) portion of his base will flip their shit and there will be some violence. Expect a few Malheurs at the very least and probably some overt terrorism. How bad it is will depend on luck, whatever organization they've already put together, how functional the FBI still is, and whether Alex Jones is still on the air.

Seriously though: if there's any chaos following Trumperdämmerung and I suddenly stop posting, y'all should presume I was murdered by my neighbors. There's a small but real militia/extremist presence in my neck of the woods and they know who I am. Here's hoping they continue to be as cowardly as they've been under the rule of Daddy.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:19 AM on May 18, 2017 [11 favorites]

I'm worried about what MAGAs will do if he's impeached. I have no idea what they do if he resigns.

Pretty much what you would expect. Blame everyone but them for everything, lament how corrupt America is when Trump the Patriot gets railroaded while doing nothing wrong while Hillary, Obama and Soros continue to avoid prosecution for their many capital crimes, rant against Fake News and The Swamp and The Establishment and The Clintons, and howl on newspaper letter pages and blog comment sections.

Also some people somewhere will get shot for no good reason. But this is America so that was going to happen anyway.
posted by delfin at 7:19 AM on May 18, 2017 [12 favorites]

...and that's why I would like to see some death penalties handed down. Pour encourager les autres.

Do you want icepicks? Because this is how you get icepicks.

Hey, we executed the Rosenbergs. This is far worse. These people swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. There is no greater crime against this country.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:20 AM on May 18, 2017 [15 favorites]

I'm worried about what MAGAs will do if he's impeached. I have no idea what they do if he resigns.

99.999% of them will do jack shit
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 7:20 AM on May 18, 2017 [33 favorites]

...and what about Gorsuch? Is he going to have an asterisk next to his appointment for the rest of his term? Is he going to be seen as illegitimate? Depending upon how deep the rabbit hole goes regarding the outcome of the 2016 election, there may be serious questions regarding the legitimacy of the result.

Questions among Democrats. No republicans will ever question Gorsuch's legitimacy. Look at the illegitimate things they were willing to do to get him in that seat.
posted by saturday_morning at 7:21 AM on May 18, 2017 [12 favorites]

as an atheist, i understand the desire to see evil unpunished in this life receive justice in the next. it's the same impulse that makes me dream that Roger Ailes was a desperately unhappy person who got no joy from anything.

he probably had a grand old time.
posted by murphy slaw at 7:21 AM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

No matter what we discover about Trumpian skulduggery, it's likely that we won't find out that he actually stole the election. Trump's the legit Pres, until he's not, so Gorsuch is a legit Supreme.

You really don't think that a party-line appointment in the Senate over a filibuster by a President (potentially) convicted of espionage during the election campaign will color Gorsuch's seat? I think every time he's mentioned until he retires, resigns, or is impeached this should be brought up.

"Justice Gorsuch, whose seat was stolen by Republican President Donald Trump's electoral treason, was the deciding vote on the court"
posted by leotrotsky at 7:22 AM on May 18, 2017 [26 favorites]

What do we make of the fact that numerous people were pointing out that Rosenstein's Comey firing memo didn't sound like it was written by him or written by a lawyer at all in light of him now appointing a special counsel? I wonder if it was like the codes undercover cops use through the wire to signal that he wasn't really on board, knowing Trump wouldn't know the difference.
posted by Waiting for Pierce Inverarity at 7:22 AM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

Someone's putting warding runes around delivery rooms so Ailes can't slither back in to our world, right?
posted by jason_steakums at 7:23 AM on May 18, 2017 [42 favorites]

a filibuster broken by a vice president who did nothing during the transition when he was fully aware that the incoming national security adviser was a foreign agent?
posted by murphy slaw at 7:23 AM on May 18, 2017 [12 favorites]

Don't attribute to a complicated conspiracy with russia what could easily be explained by gross incompetence, and good old fashioned idiocy.

And don't attribute to gross incompetence and idiocy what could easily be attributed to greed.

This is about the money (which happens to originate in Russia and end in the pockets of our executive branch). The goal was personal enrichment, and they didn't care where it came from or what they would have to give in return. Russia--->money--->Trump-Associates is not a "complicated conspiracy"; it's a pretty simple conspiracy that even a "good old fashioned idiot" could participate in.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:24 AM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

Reports that Ailes died peacefully in his sleep, decapitated by roving lesbian gangs

So this is what FOMO feels like
posted by schadenfrau at 7:24 AM on May 18, 2017 [20 favorites]

I mean, we don't know what an investigation is going to find about Gorsuch. But it's a political question, and there is already enough staining that appointment to go after it if the political will is there.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:26 AM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

The people who would believe that Gorsuch's appointment was illegitimate already believe that his appointment was illegitimate. I honestly don't believe many people will be dissuaded from what they already believe (this is all a mockery of our system, or, the president can do that because he's president*) on that.

*regardless of the nature of that presidency. You really believe people will be willing to believe that they were played by a foreign government?
posted by R a c h e l at 7:27 AM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

this morning's tweets make me think that earlier reports that trump's reaction to the special counsel announcement was "extremely measured" were perhaps indulgences in a bit of image management.
posted by murphy slaw at 7:27 AM on May 18, 2017 [20 favorites]

You really don't think that a party-line appointment in the Senate over a filibuster by a President convicted of espionage during the election campaign will color Gorsuch's seat?

You know what they call the guy who graduated last in his class in medical school?

Doctor.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 7:27 AM on May 18, 2017 [23 favorites]

If Trump is impeached or resigns, it will be following a long process that erodes the will of the MAGA types and discredits him. The Republicans will try to keep a lid on their people so as not to damage Pence any more than necessary.

I think it's very realistic to worry about one or two MAGA violence incidents, and those could be bad, but I don't think that the country will erupt into riots. Part of this is because the MAGA types are most concentrated in the suburbs, small cities and small towns, and it's a lot harder to have mass riots when everyone is spread out in places that lack city-like town centers. Also, MAGA types tend not to live in diverse areas, so it's going to be harder to find people to turn on. I'm not trying to minimize the hate crime spike since Trump has been elected - it's just that I (like a lot of people) feared that it would be far worse.

And it hasn't been very long, and this is a large country. There are not paramilitary Trumpist organizations with some discipline and habits. If we're only talking about things getting worse, as opposed to the steady state of violence against immigrants and people of color, we are not looking at years of state tolerance for political or openly ideologically motivated murder of immigrants.

What has happened under US-backed regimes in Central America hasn't yet happened here - state-sponsored or paramilitary systematic murder of the homeless, of marginalized street children, of union activists, etc. We have a standard level of police violence in this country, but we do not have (although we have had in the past) widespread networks of civilians organized to commit violence in the interests of a rightist state and with the expectation of impunity. That's the stuff Bannon has been aiming for and that Trump would have supported via Sessions, etc. It hasn't happened yet, and if we can get Trump out and discredit many of the top criminals now, it won't.

Me? I don't think it's too late to rebottle the genie (and seal the bottle with the Seal of Solomon and throw it in the deepest part of the ocean). I'm not saying "la la everything will be fine", but I think that the process of getting Trump out of office is going to weaken and discredit the Republicans, fracture and demoralize their base and energize non-Republicans. Victory breeds victory. This isn't the nineties - middle class people can't just roll along with rich Third Way Democrats while ignoring working people anymore, because all that's come home to roost.
posted by Frowner at 7:27 AM on May 18, 2017 [50 favorites]

and they trembled before her fury: this is espionage, pure and simple. which, of course, can carry the death penalty. we may be looking at the first president to be executed for espionage.

jaduncan: Of all the things that will not happen, this is the thing that most will not happen.

I know, this is really a pipe dream. Haven't you heard how hard it is for states to find sources of drugs for lethal injections?
posted by filthy light thief at 7:28 AM on May 18, 2017

Has Breitbart or Alex Jones reported yet that Hillary ~~had Ailes killed~~ strangled Ailes in his sleep with her bare hands?
posted by zakur at 7:29 AM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump: This is the single greatest witch hunt of a politician in American history!

@susie_meister Retweeted Donald J. Trump
You might say we're moving on you like a bitch. When you're a democracy, they let you do it.
posted by chris24 at 7:31 AM on May 18, 2017 [163 favorites]

I just want to warn everyone I may be taking a nap on a long bus ride today on my way to a doctor's appointment.
posted by loquacious at 7:31 AM on May 18, 2017 [21 favorites]

as much as it would warm the darkest corners of my heart to see the administration face a firing squad, i'm not tossing aside my stringent opposition to the death penalty for a bit of fun
posted by murphy slaw at 7:32 AM on May 18, 2017 [11 favorites]

And you know what? Witch hunt?

This is from the guy who encouraged Russian hackers to hack her emails. Her emails!
posted by adept256 at 7:33 AM on May 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

i would shed nary a tear if any of these treasonous fucks were to stretch a rope
posted by entropicamericana at 7:34 AM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

I've read a mere half of the 1000+ comments here, but want to make a few points because I have other stuff to do (bollocks):

- Mueller is a perfect choice for special counsel. Someone on the Twitterz pointed out "when the hackers agree with the FBI in being against you, you're in deep shit." That's pretty much correct. Mueller is the definition of a patriot.

- TPM is largely aligned with Metafilter values, at least when it comes to the Trump admin. (I've been supporting The Atlantic (because David Frum decided long ago to put country over party) and the NYT (because they're good at investigative journalism)).

- I'm sad to see Comey be treated this way. I never thought I'd say this about an FBI chief, but the man has done the right thing, at personal cost, and deserves respect. I await the forecoming public testimony.

- Trump's antagonizing of the IC - for no reason - might bring about his downfall. He doesn't seem to understand that as President, the IC is your best friend and your worst (potential) enemy.

saulgoodman, you'll be in my prayers.
posted by iffthen at 7:34 AM on May 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

Washington Post Editorial Board: Trump’s commission on voter fraud is, well, fraudulent

Mr. Kobach is notorious for erecting impediments to the ballot box — specifically, ones that would disproportionately discourage and deter minority and other Democratic-leaning voters. His presence as the commission’s vice chair — Mr. Pence’s other responsibilities make it likely that Mr. Kobach will be the panel’s driving force — makes a farce of the idea that the commission’s work will be dispassionate, fair and clear-eyed.

More likely, given Mr. Kobach’s record, is that it will endeavor to create further pretexts for GOP-dominated state legislatures determined to throw up barriers to minority turnout with laws such as North Carolina’s, which was struck down by a federal appeals court as an unconstitutional effort to “target African Americans with almost surgical precision.” The Supreme Court, citing a dispute over who represents the state, on Monday declined to review that decision, but its conservative majority may not block future such legislation.

The fix was in from the moment Mr. Trump promised, in January, that he would establish a commission on fraudulent voting, a nonissue that has been almost entirely conjured from thin air by Republicans seeking to enhance their electoral chances. Multiple studies have shown, and the overwhelming consensus of both Republican and Democratic voting officials at the state and local levels has been, that fraudulent voting, particularly of the in-person variety, is all but nonexistent in the United States. A thorough survey three years ago came up with 31 credible instances of voter impersonation that could have been prevented by ID laws, out of more than 1 billion votes cast in elections from 2000 to 2014.

Republicans are quick to conflate their baseless allegations of widespread fraud with real — and inconsequential — instances of duplicative voter-registration rolls owing mainly to individuals who have moved from one state to another. That hardly ever translates into multiple or illegal votes cast.

posted by zombieflanders at 7:35 AM on May 18, 2017 [46 favorites]

Roger Ailes' first job was working on the Mike Douglas show when it was just a local talk/variety program in Cleveland. Ailes worked his way up from being a property manager for the show, until he was eventually made its Executive Producer when the show went national. In 1968, Vice President Richard Nixon was a guest and that's where he met Ailes, who would eventually be tapped to run Nixon's Presidential campaign.

There's been a lot written about Watergate over the years, and many people have noted that the scandal's most lasting legacy has been a growing distrust of politicians, politics and government by the American people. The only time that distrust tends to fade is during times of war, but when those conflicts end, distrust reliably rises.

There's a thread here worth following. A theme. A recurring motif. Ailes helped elect a President who was paranoid, obsessed with his image, kept enemies lists and maniacal about information leaks. When his Presidency fell apart, Nixon destroyed America's (mostly blind faith and) trust in our leaders. That and his prolongation of the Vietnam War are most of Nixon's legacy. A mistrust of government and politicians which has lasted for 40 years. In no small part thanks to Roger Ailes.

After Nixon left office in disgrace, Ailes became a political consultant. But in '96, he took over FoxNewschannel and he turned that network into a Republican propaganda arm for the Murdochs. Fox promoted a Republican worldview and stirred up as much mistrust of Democrats and specifically of the Clinton administration as it possibly could. Under Ailes, Fox News fed off the sentiment that Nixon had triggered, broadcasting conspiracy theories and lies about anyone who opposed Republicans, all while proclaiming themselves to be fair and balanced. Playing their part, Republicans have done everything they can to play the "heel" to their constituents.

The end result of 20 years of Fox broadcasting an endless flood of propaganda and attacks is of course the defeat of Hillary Clinton and the rise of Donald Trump. Our current President is a corrupt, paranoid, racist, narcissistic liar who is obsessed with leaks, punishing his enemies, desperate to control every aspect of his image and equally demanding of people's unwavering loyalty. Sounds familiar.

Ailes made a Trump Presidency possible. He helped create the modern GOP. Now we're all paying the price.
posted by zarq at 7:35 AM on May 18, 2017 [126 favorites]

ha ha jason chaffetz is the most feckless idiot in a congress overflowing with feckless idiots

Chaffetz: ‘I Question’ Whether Comey Memos Are ‘Actually There’

Two days after threatening to use his “subpoena pen” to get his hands on James Comey’s reported memos describing his encounters with President Donald Trump, Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-UT) on Thursday expressed skepticism as to whether they actually existed.
…
“I do think in the light of day in a public setting he should be able to tell us about not only the materials, if they’re there, and I question whether or not they’re actually there, but if they’re there, and then how did he take them?” Chaffetz told George Stephanopoulos on ABC’s “Good Morning America.”

posted by murphy slaw at 7:37 AM on May 18, 2017 [12 favorites]

What illegal things is Obama supposed to have done?
i never really got over extra-judicial drone execution of american citizens. due process fan, yo.
posted by j_curiouser at 7:39 AM on May 18, 2017 [15 favorites]

Next SNL I really want Tina Fey as Palin to walk in on Trump and say "what a week" and then Alec Baldwin as Trump say "it's Wednesday, Lemon" and then Fey retort with "it's actually Saturday, Orange".
posted by Talez at 7:39 AM on May 18, 2017 [49 favorites]

[fake] Trump gets all of his staff for a meeting. He goes around greeting everyone, shaking hands and asking everyone how their families our doing. "Let's get down to business. I have one question for all of you... Any of you who weren't spying for another country, a secret lobbyist, or running a grift raise your hand."

After a pause a few hands go up.

"You're fired. Show some initiative next time."
posted by drezdn at 7:40 AM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

Are we done with SNL until the fall now, though?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:41 AM on May 18, 2017

Are we done with SNL until the fall now, though?

One more. The Rock joins the Five-Timers Club this weekend.
posted by Etrigan at 7:43 AM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

Ryan and McCarthy denied the conversation, then changed their answers after being told about the tape.

I am not plugged very much into the news at the moment, but I hope that this fact is extremely prominent in the coverage, if not the leading aspect. The Speaker of the House overtly and shamelessly lying to the press should be news.
posted by Gelatin at 7:43 AM on May 18, 2017 [14 favorites]

Two days after threatening to use his “subpoena pen” to get his hands on James Comey’s reported memos describing his encounters with President Donald Trump, Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-UT) on Thursday expressed skepticism as to whether they actually existed.
…
“I do think in the light of day in a public setting he should be able to tell us about not only the materials, if they’re there, and I question whether or not they’re actually there, but if they’re there, and then how did he take them?” Chaffetz told George Stephanopoulos on ABC’s “Good Morning America.”

If only there were some way for Chaffetz to check. Some kind of document he could issue that would compel someone to tell him! I'm glad there isn't, because otherwise this would sound like transparently duplicious statements for the benefit of idiots.

It'll play on Fox without that context, though.
posted by jaduncan at 7:44 AM on May 18, 2017 [19 favorites]

I think it's an open question as to whether to torrent of leaks we've seen continues. Do members of the intelligence community keep it up or do they trust Mueller enough that they'll sit on it and see what happens?

Replying in general to this line of questioning: remember that the leaks have come from everywhere. High-ranking officials, White House staffers, and the IC community have all provided damning information in drips and drabs, often in response to lies from Trump and Co.

So I think that as long as the Trumpiteers are lying about something related to the investigation, or related items, there's going to be "correcting" leaks with enough information to refute other claims made in the public spheres.

Jalliah: The bigger story about the Ryan tape is that it was leaked now. Whoever had it has been sitting on it. So they now must feel that this is the right time to go after Ryan.

Exactly: there are enough politicians who are mired in this mess that there's always something to leak and potentially expand the scope of the investigation.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:45 AM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Re-posting, from the end of the last thread: Impeachment: A Handbook, by Charles Lund Black, may be of interest. "In a classic guide to presidential impeachment, Charles L. Black clarifies the issues and questions that surround this controversial subject. With a new foreword by constitutional expert Akhil Reed Amar, this authoritative book is essential reading for every concerned citizen."
posted by MonkeyToes at 7:47 AM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

What illegal things is Obama supposed to have done? I keep seeing this talking point from the right. I know they're delusional, but what are they even talking about?

I'm guessing Benghazi is probably their biggest complaint. They also claim that he was running an illegal war by supplying guns to Syrian rebels.

Republicans also attacked him for chewing gum. They're completely unhinged.
posted by zarq at 7:47 AM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

Is Kushner (who appears to be the architect of this humiliating meltdown in the making) secretly trying to sabotage Trump, or does he actually think he and Ivanka can pull this off, or what?

From the NYT's insider account of How Trump Learned About the Special Counsel on Russia:

Most of those gathered recommended that the president adopt a conciliatory stance, and release a statement accepting Mr. Rosenstein’s decision and embracing a swift investigation that would clear the cloud of suspicion hovering over the West Wing.

Mr. Kushner — who had urged Mr. Trump to fire James B. Comey, the F.B.I. director — was one of the few dissenting voices, urging the president to counterattack, according to two senior administration officials. After a brief discussion, however, calmer heads prevailed, and Mr. Trump’s staff huddled over a computer just outside the Oval Office to draft the statement that was ultimately released, asserting the president’s innocence and determination to move on.

The sabotage hypothesis appears less unlikely by the day, though the odds remain better that Kushner is only not quite as thick than his father-in-law.
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:47 AM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

Is Kushner (who appears to be the architect of this humiliating meltdown in the making) secretly trying to sabotage Trump, or does he actually think he and Ivanka can pull this off, or what?

TPM: Wake Up: Kushner’s a Baddie Too
posted by PenDevil at 7:49 AM on May 18, 2017 [12 favorites]

the odds remain better that Kushner is only not quite as thick than his father-in-law.

few are
posted by entropicamericana at 7:50 AM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

Has Breitbart or Alex Jones reported yet that Hillary ~~had Ailes killed~~ strangled Ailes in his sleep with her bare hands?

We need to counter with the competing narrative that it's Putin tying up loose ends. The real explanation, of course, is that one of the terms of Ailes' satanic pact required constant sexual harassment to sustain his life force. Deprived of this lifeblood, he swiftly expired.
posted by Behemoth at 7:50 AM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

Damn. Mueller really does look like Edward R Murrow crossed with Sam Waterston. Dude just exudes gravitas.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:51 AM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

We need to counter with the competing narrative that it's Putin tying up loose ends.

One thing that we need more than anything right now is for Trump to stay alive until the end of his term, whether it's by impeachment, elections, or term limits.

Otherwise, could you imagine the conspiracies that would pop up no matter how he died?
posted by drezdn at 7:53 AM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

We need to counter with the competing narrative that it's Putin tying up loose ends.

This is why both-sideism is a thing.
posted by Talez at 7:54 AM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

Ben Sasse and Chuck Schumer are clearly feeling a little punchy (slTwitter).
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:55 AM on May 18, 2017 [14 favorites]

Shockingly, I sort of agree with Trump - not that this is the biggest witch hunt in history - but he's correct in that people are out to get him. There are thousands, if not millions, of people scrutinizing his every move, every second, every day. His past actions all but dared us to do so.

And also, ya know, being President. Scrutiny comes with the job and the man who championed birtherism should know better than anyone.
posted by phearlez at 7:56 AM on May 18, 2017 [11 favorites]

My main concern at this point is that all of this stuff feeds the sense of persecution Republicans seem to feel in this country. I can sort of understand it. Republicans haven't fielded a decent President since Eisenhower, who warned of the military-industrial complex. Nixon was Nixon. (Ford was ok, but he didn't run for President.) Reagan is revered today but everyone knows the dirty little secrets of the Reagan White House--he was increasingly demented and not particularly bright, but was lucky enough to be surrounded by competent advisers. He managed to get past Iran-Contra by the skin of his teeth. Bush, Sr. was destroyed by his own party for raising taxes despite the fact that it was the right thing for the economy and the country. The glorious boom attributed to Clinton was seeded by Bush's economic policies. And Bush, Jr. was disastrously unpopular, staggering from one scandal to the next, relentlessly pilloried by the media and opposition party.

By contrast, despite various controversies that occurred during the Obama administration, not many in the MSM or general public really tie those scandals to Obama the President, deservedly or undeservedly. And Clinton was better for Republicans than Democrats, policy wise. All of his most memorable scandals are related to sex, not political corruption or policy missteps.

If I were a conservative, I'd be pretty upset that it seems impossible to get an intellectual, politically savvy, scandal-free Republican into the White House. I'd say that such Republicans don't exist, but I see plenty of decent conservative analysts and writers running around. None of them run for office, though.
posted by xyzzy at 7:57 AM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

FWIW, this is something even NeverTrumpers are going to have to (1) accept responsibility for, and (2) confront in their own ethical and moral space.

A reminder: The vast majority of NeverTrumpers, at the time, were not concerned that he was an inexperienced corrupt buffoon who would start WW3. They were concerned that he was an inexperienced corrupt buffoon who would lose to Clinton. Their ethical and moral space was purged clean when he won.
posted by Etrigan at 7:57 AM on May 18, 2017 [32 favorites]

Republicans also attacked him for chewing gum

And wearing a tan suit, and not wearing a suit jacket in the Oval Office, and...
posted by SisterHavana at 8:05 AM on May 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

Has anyone from the Trump admin condemned the attack on US protesters committed by Edrogan's security detail?
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:06 AM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

As investigators circled Flynn, he got a message from Trump: Stay strong: Flynn left little doubt about the answer. Not only did he remain loyal to President Trump, he indicated he and the president were still in communication. “I just got a message from the president to stay strong,” Flynn said after the meal was over, according to two sources who are close to Flynn and are familiar with the conversation, which took place on April 25.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:06 AM on May 18, 2017 [16 favorites]

I'd be pretty upset that it seems impossible to get an intellectual, politically savvy, scandal-free Republican into the White House.

They'd have to stop being racist misogynistic dirtbags first.
posted by INFJ at 8:07 AM on May 18, 2017 [12 favorites]

Eating dijon mustard, which I'm SURE Sean Hannity doesn't have in his fridge. He's incapable of hypocrisy, after all.
posted by Yowser at 8:07 AM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Chaffetz will step announce that he is stepping down early today.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:10 AM on May 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

Is it just me, or is all this talk of "leaking" bringing to mind dirty diapers? This administration is so full of shit I hope it leaks itself to death.

To add on to Frowner's comment above (and I really need a "flag Frowner's comment as fantastic" bot!), especially this: There are not paramilitary Trumpist organizations with some discipline and habits. - that is something that Timothy Snyder touches on in his paper on resistance: if there are strong, visible paramilitaries, that would be a clear sign that Things Are Very Very Bad. But, while a lone MAGA gunman can still do damage, there are not any signs that there's a bunch of organized, disciplined MAGA paramilitaries around, instead of Internet Tough Guys.

I was keeping an eye on whether there would be a surge of young white men signing up for ICE (which would have, IMO, been very worrisome) and there doesn't seem to have been. And it's worth noting that the percentage of US men who are veterans has gone way down: from 45% of men having been in the military in 1970 to 15% today - so far fewer with actual experience in a real world military unit and the know-how to teach others. How many people are going to want the sloggy hard work of drill and discipline when they could get their jollies from LARPing and talking about how they're totally going to help Make America Great Again in between bong hits?

I'm more worried about inchoate anger on one side (which helped propel Trump into office) and apathy on the other slowly corroding trust in one another and our democracy.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 8:10 AM on May 18, 2017 [15 favorites]

Has anyone from the Trump admin condemned the attack on US protesters committed by Edrogan's security detail?

I do not believe Trump has actually praised them yet.
posted by Artw at 8:10 AM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

Don't let's forget the time Obama's Foot on the Resolute Desk Sent Shockwaves Around the World.
posted by WordCannon at 8:10 AM on May 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

That Chaffetz Politico story contains this:

"He recently subpoenaed James Comey's memos, and invited the fired FBI director to testify next week before his panel."

When did he subpoena the memos?! I don't remember seeing that. I saw that he was OPEN TO IT but not that he'd done it. Is it forthcoming?
posted by Tevin at 8:13 AM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

My main concern at this point is that all of this stuff feeds the sense of persecution Republicans seem to feel in this country.

That sense of persecution is almost entirely manufactured. Much of the reasoning behind it is based in misogyny, racism and hatred of the poor.

Republicans -- much like the Christians who complain about the nonexistent "War on Christmas" -- are upset because they have to share the country with the rest of us. There's not much more to it than that.
posted by zarq at 8:13 AM on May 18, 2017 [65 favorites]

Chaffetz will step announce that he is stepping down early today.

I will wager a crisp sock-puppet-ready $5 that he's elbows-deep in some political/ethical/sexual cookie jar or another, and gittin' while the gittin's good.
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:17 AM on May 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

Ryan and McCarthy denied the conversation, then changed their answers after being told about the tape.
Minor point here, but the Post reported it was their spokespersons, not the jerks themselves:

When initially asked to comment on the exchange, Brendan Buck, a spokesman for Ryan, said: “That never happened,” and Matt Sparks, a spokesman for McCarthy, said: “The idea that McCarthy would assert this is absurd and false.”

posted by MtDewd at 8:17 AM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

When did he subpoena the memos?! I don't remember seeing that. I saw that he was OPEN TO IT but not that he'd done it. Is it forthcoming?

Yesterday, but before the independent prosecutor appointment. Otherwise known in News Time as five years ago.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:17 AM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

The double ice cream scoops thing is actually a dick move, if you're going out of your way to give everyone else one scoop.
posted by Yowser at 8:18 AM on May 18, 2017 [40 favorites]

If you want Donald J Trump to connect the dots there you're going to have to use his full name.

And the "J" stands for "Jagoff."
posted by kirkaracha at 8:18 AM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

When did he subpoena the memos?! I don't remember seeing that. I saw that he was OPEN TO IT but not that he'd done it. Is it forthcoming?

I think this (PDF) is what that's referring to.
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:18 AM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

The vast majority of NeverTrumpers, at the time, were not concerned that he was an inexperienced corrupt buffoon who would start WW3

This was not my experience, at least among the contingent who fought with me in Cleveland. I mean, we may have focused more on "he's dangerously insane and will destroy America", but it wasn't "oh no, he might lose." Republicans have lost before. If it were just about a Republican losing, none of us would have even bothered to spring for the plane ticket.
posted by corb at 8:19 AM on May 18, 2017 [36 favorites]

the sense of persecution Republicans seem to feel

is not going anywhere because it is what the party is entirely based on. They have a black and white, winners and losers view of the world. If someone wins, that means someone else must lose. They see other people who aren't them winning in any capacity, and it means that they must be losing. To them, the greater good is literally impossible. You can only have good for some. If someone else has something good, that means you have lost out on it. If someone else has religious freedom, that must mean you have less. If someone else has prosperity, that must mean you have less. If young black children have a better education, that must mean that your middle class white kid has a worse one than before. Their entire worldview is grievance based on this winners and losers mindset. It's not going anywhere.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:19 AM on May 18, 2017 [44 favorites]

Chaffetz's Let Them Eat Cake moments leave him vulnerable to guillotines. (him scooting in from paid sick leave to take away other people's health care was a crowning moment of evil)
posted by Yowser at 8:20 AM on May 18, 2017 [16 favorites]

The Republicans wrote this ticket when they embraced the southern strategy and ceded the moral high ground to Democrats when it came to racism.* And then eventually, to everything else, up to and including facts and objective reality.

A better scenario would be the Republican party dissolving and then the Democrats splitting into "moderate but still not insane" and "actually pushing for near socialism because c'mon people it's time" while the kind of people who wore MAGA hats would be left with the choice of choosing a moderate or being unrepresented.

*asterisk because, yes, Dems are far from perfect on this, still too many white ppl in charge, etc. etc.
posted by emjaybee at 8:20 AM on May 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

WASHINGTON (AP) — Top Republican on Senate intelligence panel says Michael Flynn's lawyers say he won't honor subpoena.
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:20 AM on May 18, 2017 [30 favorites]

Top Republican on Senate intelligence panel says Michael Flynn's lawyers say he won't honor subpoena.

I don't even know what to do with that. I mean, does he go to jail then?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:21 AM on May 18, 2017 [20 favorites]

I think he goes to jail for contempt of Congress? That's just bizarre.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 8:21 AM on May 18, 2017 [10 favorites]

he won't honor subpoena

Is that... uh... legal?
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:22 AM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Does Flynn want to be in jail because it's...safest? Help me out here, what the hell is the reasoning here?
posted by yasaman at 8:23 AM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

Hmm, I'm sure he's not refusing a subpoena to protect someone else.
posted by Tevin at 8:23 AM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

It's something you do when your options are jail or polonium stroganoff.
posted by delfin at 8:24 AM on May 18, 2017 [54 favorites]

What a time to be alive! These are, like, Watergate-level shenanigans.
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:24 AM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

Politico claims that Congressional subpoenas are weaksauce and are frequently unsuccessful.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:24 AM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

Politico claims that Congressional subpoenas are weaksauce and are frequently unsuccessful.

That was three days ago, though. Basically a lifetime.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:26 AM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

This is all the bitch eating crackers phenomenon. The same thing when we criticize Trump's tie or double ice cream scoops or well cooked steaks.

The double ice cream scoops thing is actually a dick move, if you're going out of your way to give everyone else one scoop.

Same deal with the tie and well-done steaks. The guy supposedly has all the money in the world, and he can't get dress himself properly? He can spend $100 on a steak and have it prepared like something that you'd pull out of a Ponderosa buffet tray?

They're both synedoches for his long-documented cultivation of millimeters-thin surface glamour to cover a deep void of inner substance. They are aesthetic reflections on his character, or lack of it.

With Obama, they just didn't like the way the guy breathed, so they gaslit people into thinking there was something wrong with mustard, or tan suits, or whatever.
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:26 AM on May 18, 2017 [18 favorites]

It looks like the worst possible penalty for contempt of Congress is a year in jail and a thousand dollar fine, and yeah, I suspect that beats the alternative. On the other hand, it's hard to explain other than that he's guilty of something. His own party is in charge of the proceedings!
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 8:26 AM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

Chaffetz will step announce that he is stepping down early today.

WTF with this guy. He's in the House, so he just got re-elected last fall, and now he's bailing out? Can his constituents sue for misrepresentation and fraud?
posted by dnash at 8:26 AM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

What it is telling me is that the truth is worse than jail time.
posted by jaduncan at 8:27 AM on May 18, 2017 [48 favorites]

It's stupid grandstanding because Flynn doesn't even have to answer anything. He just gets up there and pleads the 5th to every question and either walks away or waits for his immunity.

There are better ways to stonewall than martyring yourself on the altar of contempt of congress.
posted by Talez at 8:28 AM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

Chelsea Manning just vacated a federal prison cell. I'll chip in five bucks for a plaque with her name on it, positioned so it's the first thing General Flynn sees when he wakes up every morning.
posted by Etrigan at 8:29 AM on May 18, 2017 [20 favorites]

roomthreeseventeen: Chaffetz will step announce that he is stepping down early today.

Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah) is expected to announce Thursday that he is resigning before the end of this congressional term, according to three sources familiar with his plans.

Just to clarify what he's stepping down from. And from the end of that short Politico piece:

Chaffetz told POLITICO last month he had begun exploring employment outside Congress. Several sources in the Capitol say Chaffetz has told his colleagues he will appear on Fox News.

It's nice when the rats jumping from a sinking wreck can land on a comfy cruise liner that just happened to be in the vicinity.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:30 AM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

Congratulations, Saudi citizens, after an hour of incoherent rambling by an idiot about how America is great and Islam is bad, you will be treated to the same experience in musical form in the accompanying musical performance by Toby Keith.

Everything about this is going to be the stupidest thing in the world. I'm not sure they could find a quicker way to generate an international incident if they were trying.
posted by Copronymus at 8:30 AM on May 18, 2017 [34 favorites]

Hmm, I'm sure he's not refusing a subpoena to protect someone else.

And it's definitely not because the president sent him a message to "stay strong."

Not only did he remain loyal to President Trump, he indicated he and the president were still in communication. “I just got a message from the president to stay strong,” Flynn said after the meal was over, according to two sources who are close to Flynn and are familiar with the conversation, which took place on April 25.

The comment came at the end of an especially difficult day for Flynn when his legal woes had appeared to deepen: two congressmen, House Oversight Committee Chairman Jason Chaffetz, R-Utah, and ranking Democrat Elijah Cummings, D-Md., after reviewing classified Pentagon documents, had just accused Flynn of failing to disclose foreign income from Russia and Turkey when he sought to renew his security clearance.

The sources who spoke to Yahoo News say Flynn did not indicate how Trump had sent the message—whether a written note, a text message, a phone call or some other method. (The White House did not respond to a request for comment.) But the fact that the two men have stayed in contact could raise additional questions about the president’s reported request to former FBI Director James Comey to shut down a federal investigation into the retired Army general.

posted by gladly at 8:31 AM on May 18, 2017 [12 favorites]

I guess he has already publicly begged for immunity, so he's not too concerned about what does or does not make him look guilty of something.
posted by contraption at 8:31 AM on May 18, 2017

I'm more worried about the Democratic Party failing to come up with a meaningful and productive response to all of this than I am about how Trump's loyal supporters will respond to an impeachment.

Kicking Trump out of office will stabilize our international relations (a good thing) but I haven't seen any compelling arguments about how it'll help the domestic situation. There's nobody in the chain of command that I'd want at the top. And with all of the mythologizing about the rise of facism, "this. is. not. normal."s and "THE RUSSIANS!!" I've seen very little national conversations about a way forward for the left and Democratic Party.

The Republican Party's agenda and vision for the future of this country is horrible and terrifying, with or without Trump. There's plenty wrong with this country without Russian influence. An example: All Presidents have the ability to instigate nuclear war, I doesnt make much of a difference if the planet is destroyed after rational, reasonable consideration. If we're afraid of nukes we should work to get rid of the weapons.

There's a real opportunity to take advantage of how exposed the Republican Party's fraudulent ideology is. Passively watching this all implode, taking moral high grounds that consist of little more than insisting on the maintenance of political norms, and letting the Russian scandal (a very real thing that needs to be talked about and investigated) bury the idealogical conflicts within the Democratic Party, is not going to be enough.
posted by AtoBtoA at 8:31 AM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

WTF with this guy. He's in the House, so he just got re-elected last fall, and now he's bailing out? Can his constituents sue for misrepresentation and fraud?

They got exactly what they paid for- this is who they elected. They knew, or should have known, he only cared about fame & glory, and he can't get that now, so he's bailing. It's not terrible to announce he won't run again this early, though- House reps are constantly fundraising for the next election (a 2-year term is nothing), so the next guy in his place needs to start campaigning yesterday.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:31 AM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Have they picked their hill to die (or achieve full autocracy) on? If he refuses to honor the subpoena and doesn't wind up in jail, that's the end of Congress and the judiciary as co-equal branches of government, isn't it?

I don't know what Flynn's refusal means, or what happens now, but I was thinking on the way into work this morning that it's pretty easy to fall into a trap of thinking the events of the past 10 days (the rough equivalent of a millenium, in current political time) mean things are going to be ok, that the system still works after a fashion. And the reality is that it feels like the system has only worked like this after a heck of a lot of pressure and screaming and resistance, and that now is the time to actual strengthen those efforts - to ratchet up the pressure again and again and again, because they want us to go back to sleep.
posted by nubs at 8:33 AM on May 18, 2017 [11 favorites]

I completely agree with you that Republicans shouldn't feel persecuted. But they do. And in this feelings are facts era, a sense of persecution felt by a privileged subset of the population scares the shit out of me.

They deserve our mocking laughter. Not our fear.

The ludicrous idea that Republicans are being persecuted is a lie. They're using that lie as an excuse to oppress, disenfranchise and do actual, measurable harm to anyone they disagree with. It should be called out as a lie at every available opportunity and they should be denied any possible power that false claims of persecution would give them.

This isn't not hard. They're in the majority. They literally run this country. They own the Presidency, the House of Representatives, the Senate and will soon also run the Supreme Court. They have a lock on a majority of state legislatures and governorships. They're literally passing laws to help keep themselves in power and denying others the right to live in freedom.

They can claim whatever they want. Doesn't mean their feelings are valid. We don't have to pretend they are, either.
posted by zarq at 8:33 AM on May 18, 2017 [56 favorites]

This "Know Your Rights" thing [pdf] from Mayer Brown has some more info on Congressional subpoena enforcement (from the perspective of someone receiving the subpoena):

As a practical matter, however, the mechanisms that Congress must use to enforce a subpoena or to sanction a party for contempt are time-consuming and cumbersome, with each escalating step in the process requiring a greater level of political commitment. For example, most committees’ rules authorize their subcommittees or chairpersons (occasionally in consultation with the ranking members) to issue subpoenas requesting documents or information. If a responding party fails to comply with the subpoena, committee rules then typically require a majority vote of the full committee before a resolution of noncompliance may be reported to the parent chamber. This additional requirement operates as a political brake on any committee or subcommittee hastily citing a party for contempt.

If there are insufficient votes in committee to report a resolution of noncompliance to the full chamber, the committee may simply reject the resolution and pursue no further action. If there are sufficient votes in favor, the report must typically then pass from the committee to the parent chamber (either the House or the Senate) to face a floor vote before a resolution of contempt may be issued. The level of support necessary to pass a resolution of contempt by chamber vote is obviously significantly greater than that needed to issue the subpoena in the first instance. In many cases, there will be insufficient interest in the chamber for a resolution of contempt to pass. One wild card in this equation, however, is press coverage. Issues garnering substantial media attention and public interest are much more likely to capture the interest of members and to move quickly through the enforcement process. [emphasis added]

posted by melissasaurus at 8:33 AM on May 18, 2017 [11 favorites]

I'm 100% certain that triggering NAFTA re-negotiation today has nothing at all with trying to re-focus attention away from trump's current dumpster fire problems.
posted by fimbulvetr at 8:35 AM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

Contempt of congress I belived requires a floor motion and referral to the US Attorney, and Sessions would have to recuse. No idea who would be up next, Rosenstein or Mueller or other. Flynn can definitely stall congress and very well might get away with it, at least until he's subpoenaed by Muellers investigation.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:36 AM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Dear America: We're going to sell our oil to China. Fuck you.

Sincerely,

-Canada
posted by Yowser at 8:36 AM on May 18, 2017 [12 favorites]

Contempt of congress I belived requires a floor motion and referral to the US Attorney

Nah, it just requires listening to them for a few minutes.
posted by Etrigan at 8:37 AM on May 18, 2017 [43 favorites]

Copronymus: Congratulations, Saudi citizens, after an hour of incoherent rambling by an idiot about how America is great and Islam is bad, you will be treated to the same experience in musical form in the accompanying musical performance by Toby Keith.

I think you mean Toby "we'll put a boot in your ass, it's the American way" Keith.

And as a reminder, Keith did indeed perform that song, "Courtesy Of The Red, White, And Blue (The Angry American)" (lyrics) at Trump's inaugural concert.

Stellar optics, there, Team Trump.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:37 AM on May 18, 2017 [12 favorites]

Has anyone from the Trump admin condemned the attack on US protesters committed by [Erdogan's] security detail?

he did the same shit last year and Obama just let it happen, so i wouldn't expect anything out of Trump any time soon.
posted by indubitable at 8:37 AM on May 18, 2017

It seems insane that Chaffetz will announce his resignation today. There's blood in the water, it looks sketchy as hell with this week's news. The investigation is going to take time, it's not going to result in anything immediately. Why not wait a week or two until Trump starts some international drama and people won't immediately connect his resignation with the appointment of a special counsel?
posted by Emily's Fist at 8:39 AM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

Also, with Chaffetz's resignation... Since the term just started, doesn't that mean it's a special election, not that a replacement is appointed?
posted by frecklefaerie at 8:42 AM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Contempt of congress I belived requires a floor motion and referral to the US Attorney, and Sessions would have to recuse.

From the doc I posted above, once the contempt citation has been voted on by the full congressional body at issue, they can either have the sergeant-at-arms arrest the person and hold them in Capitol jail until the end of the legislative session (never happens), or refer the case to the US Attorney for the District of Columbia (currently Channing Phillips, an Obama appointee). If the subpoena was issued in the Senate, the Senate can initiate a civil action for an injunction (which would then be enforceable under normal judicial processes).
posted by melissasaurus at 8:42 AM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

> Why not wait a week or two until Trump starts some international drama and people won't immediately connect his resignation with the appointment of a special counsel?

My guess is because "shit's about to get real " and in a week or two there won't be any other story, period.

If I was a Republican who was even adjacent to Trump's campaign or his surrogates I'd be pulling my collar and asking "who turned up the heat, is it hot in here or is it just me? Right?"
posted by Tevin at 8:42 AM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

I almost welcome a re-negotiation of NAFTA. Then a bunch of people on the left AND right will finally get a chance to see that NAFTA (and similar treaties) have far less impact on job availability and the trade deficit than automation and other factors.
posted by xyzzy at 8:44 AM on May 18, 2017 [10 favorites]

I almost welcome a re-negotiation of NAFTA. Then a bunch of people on the left AND right will finally get a chance to see that NAFTA (and similar treaties) have far less impact on job availability and the trade deficit than automation and other factors.

And swing states will love it when Trump fucks their corn and milk exports.
posted by Talez at 8:47 AM on May 18, 2017 [11 favorites]

Then a bunch of people on the left AND right will finally get a chance to see that NAFTA (and similar treaties) have far less impact on job availability and the trade deficit than automation and other factors.

Would that sort of understanding arise from a rational, non-partisan examination of the relevant facts and statistics, conducted by knowledgeable and experienced federal staff? Good fucking luck.
posted by Behemoth at 8:48 AM on May 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

when Trump fucks their [...] milk

"Churning the butter"
posted by uncleozzy at 8:48 AM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

> "They're both synedoches for his long-documented cultivation of millimeters-thin surface glamour to cover a deep void of inner substance."

Or possibly they are dumb, meaningless criticisms.

Because they sure seem like dumb, meaningless criticisms.
posted by kyrademon at 8:49 AM on May 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

Republicans also attacked him for chewing gum

And wearing a tan suit, and not wearing a suit jacket in the Oval Office, and...

This is all the bitch eating crackers phenomenon. The same thing when we criticize Trump's tie or double ice cream scoops or well cooked steaks. I think it's good to be cognizant of that.

False equivalence--these are not remotely the same. Comments about Trump's inability to dress or feed himself like an adult are about DJT, Human Disaster. Everything the Republicans threw at Obama in this vein were about how wearing a tan suit or putting his feet up on his desk was a "disgrace to the office." Not the same. Not "both sides do it." And I think it's good to be cognizant of that.
posted by tzikeh at 8:49 AM on May 18, 2017 [49 favorites]

The same thing when we criticize Trump's tie or double ice cream scoops or well cooked steaks

Not quite; criticising Trump's "two scoops of ice cream" thing? That's about him being a bad host with terrible manners. No "by the way, folks, I like two scoops of ice cream for dessert; if you want another, just ask and we'll get you hooked up!". Criticising his overlong tie is because he's a billionaire who doesn't know how to dress even though he can afford to (and I'm sure that anyone else with the same wardrobe idiosyncracies would have it commented on). And the well-cooked steak thing? This is someone who marketed "Trump Steaks", and likes his meat cooked to the consistency of shoe leather and slathered in Heinz ketchup. Individually any of those things would be something that'd make me say "that's weird/strange" even if it weren't Trump doing them.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 8:50 AM on May 18, 2017 [11 favorites]

Here's an interesting timeline I hadn't noticed:
March 2: Sessions recuses himself from any Russia investigations.
March 20: Comey testifies -

"As you know, our practice is not to confirm the existence of ongoing investigations, especially those investigations that involve classified matters, but in unusual circumstances where it is in the public interest, it may be appropriate to do so as Justice Department policies recognize. This is one of those circumstances.

I have been authorized by the Department of Justice to confirm that the FBI, as part of our counterintelligence mission, is investigating the Russian government's efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election and that includes investigating the nature of any links between individuals associated with the Trump campaign and the Russian government and whether there was any coordination between the campaign and Russia's efforts. As with any counterintelligence investigation, this will also include an assessment of whether any crimes were committed."

April 25: Rod Rosenstein confirmed as Deputy Attorney General.

So who was Acting Deputy Attorney General before Rod Rosenstein, the person who took the unusual step of giving the FBI Director permission to reveal that an investigation was proceeding into coordination between the Russian government and the Trump campaign, on the basis of "public interest"? Dana Boente, an Obama appointee.

If Sessions hadn't recused, or if Rod Rosenstein had been confirmed earlier, we might not even know that collusion was being investigated.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:50 AM on May 18, 2017 [19 favorites]

This is all the bitch eating crackers phenomenon. The same thing when we criticize Trump's tie or double ice cream scoops or well cooked steaks.

I agree with the first and the third (Some people like things you don't! That doesn't make them lesser humans, or even bad ones!), but the ice cream thing is a bullshit power move just like his stupid handshake manuever that he seems to have stopped after someone (Trudeau?) didn't let him get away with it anymore.
posted by Etrigan at 8:52 AM on May 18, 2017 [15 favorites]

from the Guardian's coverage, succinct as always:

“With all of the illegal acts that took place in the Clinton campaign and Obama administration, there was never a special councel appointed!” he wrote in the first tweet. He later corrected the spelling of counsel.

I really do hope that historians record the un-spellchecked version.
posted by philip-random at 8:54 AM on May 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

The tie thing and the steak thing are at their heart about how the person Trump actually is conflicts with the image he tries to cultivate of the best, the classiest, etc, etc. There's no moral failing in being unable or unwilling to properly tie a tie, or in having an "immature" taste for well-cooked steak.

The ice cream thing, though, is a bullshit "alpha male" power play and is absolutely part of the substantive criticism of Trump as a (shudder) leader in the government. It's more than just a personal idiosyncracy in the same way that LBJ's cabinet meetings on the toilet were.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:54 AM on May 18, 2017 [25 favorites]

My guess is the Reaper took Roger Ailes as a consolation to humanity for taking Chris Cornell.
posted by Ber at 8:55 AM on May 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

Trump has the design taste of a dictator.
posted by zarq at 8:56 AM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Remember, remember, the stolen November,
The Russians and treasons and fail.
I know of no reason the ones who did treason
Shouldn't be taken to jail.
posted by Gelatin at 8:56 AM on May 18, 2017 [65 favorites]

Going back a bit to the Trump ice cream/cracker eating thing. Sure, I might be willing to grant you the steak thing, but the ice cream, that Trump is so in need of appearing dominant at all times that it manifests itself in how much dessert people are *allowed* to eat when they dine with him is utterly insane. In any other world, he would be any utter outcast, with his demeaning handshakes, his ice cream dictates, all of it. This isn't I hate him, therefore look how badly he's dressed, this is the hairs on my neck standing up, warning me at a base level of something or someone utterly outside the bounds of normalcy that, in any situation where they have power over mean, I'll be lucky if all they do is short change me on a scoop of vanilla. And, well, as we've all seen since January, none of us have actually been so lucky at all.

Some things are unpleasant, but otherwise harmless. Other things are warning signs screaming "ignore at your own peril." Trump's ice cream dominance is red on the back of a black spider, a rattle from a crevice when you're walking in the desert.
posted by Ghidorah at 8:56 AM on May 18, 2017 [35 favorites]

> "Criticising his overlong tie is ..."

A stupid way of making fun of someone who is not dressing according to some stupid arbitrarily "correct" code.

> "And the well-cooked steak thing?"

Is a stupid way of making fun of someone who likes his food cooked in a manner that is not the stupid arbitrarily "correct" manner.

> "... criticising Trump's 'two scoops of ice cream' thing? That's about him being a bad host with terrible manners."

That's fair.
posted by kyrademon at 8:57 AM on May 18, 2017 [18 favorites]

(Some people like things you don't! That doesn't make them lesser humans, or even bad ones!)

On the other hand, like, I totally make fun of even people I like just fine for eating good steak well-done. I don't think the tie thing makes him a bad person but I do think it combined with a lot of other things communicates some very interesting thing about wealth and appearances--in particular if you compare how he walks around looking every day with how Melania and Ivanka look. But like, whatever one thinks politically, I know UK people who don't disagree with anything Jeremy Corbyn stands for who've made comments about how he dresses. It's just that if you like the person, you say these things with some affection, and if you don't like them, you don't.
posted by Sequence at 8:57 AM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

I know that the ice cream is an indication of his awfulness, but focusing on it feels like discussing how fever is a symptom of ebola while your patient is bleeding from the eyeballs.
posted by Emily's Fist at 9:01 AM on May 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

Is a stupid way of making fun of someone who likes his food cooked in a manner that is not the stupid arbitrarily "correct" manner.

Spending $100+ for part of an animal that was killed for you and then destroying any ability to appreciate the meat for what it is is horrifying and deeply disrespectful.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 9:01 AM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

The ice cream thing, though, is a bullshit "alpha male" power play

Yeah like okay, I'll admit it, when I am home alone I will put like five scoops on my pie because I am a glutton who likes ice cream even though I tell my kid she can only have one, but I don't do that in public or when she is sitting with us because I am not a /monster/ which is the part Trump fails to learn every time.
posted by corb at 9:02 AM on May 18, 2017 [13 favorites]

A short break for story time:

I run a bi-weekly board game night at the library I work at. Last night, I had to peel myself away from the Mueller explosion to prep for a chill night of Settlers of Catan and Ticket to Ride.

But in walks a game night regular with an armload of vintage board games he picked up at a thrift store: among them, Road to the White House, (c) 1992.

You're roleplaying the presidential primaries. Get a load of this character sheet! ...and one of the pre-generated characters you can play? Donald Grump. His stats:

Home State: New York
Charisma: 0
War Chest: Mega$2

Pro-Banks: +5
Current Health Care System: +6
Free Trade: +6
Anti-Guns: +3
Highways: +2
Anti-Oil Companies: +4
Preserve Environment: +4
Protect Oceans: +5
Anti-Welfare Rights: +3
Anti-Women's Rights: +4

Special bonuses: double dollar value of contributions, quadruple dollar value of business contributions

"Though lacking in charisma, businessman Donald Grump has other ingredients to make a serious run at the presidency. Followed by a host of sycophants, Grump uses every opportunity to put forth his eclectic mix of progressive views and conservative business posture. This produces some unusual results. He makes serious overtures to environmentalists while simultaneously alienating women's groups."

Reader, I felt an overwhelming urge to lie face down on the floor for a while. I hope the alternate universe version of me where this is the canonical Trump is doing ok.
posted by The demon that lives in the air at 9:02 AM on May 18, 2017 [109 favorites]

Yes, Trump has shitty taste and is an asshole about portions. Let's move on.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:04 AM on May 18, 2017 [33 favorites]

The clothing and steak thing wouldn't matter at all except for the fact that he purposefully goes around telling anyone who will listen (and a whole bunch of people who would rather not listen) that he is the classiest, richest person on the planet who has the most expensive, most rare, most fabulous suits and is so knowledgeable about the best, classiest, most tasteful, most expensive meats that he has his own fucking branded meat.

Like, Bernie Sanders in a rumpled, ill-fitting suit is a guy who will readily admit that he doesn't care about clothes in bad clothes. Donald Trump in an ill-fitting suit is a guy whose entire reason for being is to lord it over everyone else about how classy and rich and appreciative of the finer things he is wearing clothes and eating food that are not, in fact, amongst those finer things.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:05 AM on May 18, 2017 [20 favorites]

This is going in the Ailes obit post once it's up, but I just have to share:

@petridishes: skirts at Fox News today will be lowered to half-mast
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:05 AM on May 18, 2017 [58 favorites]

Congratulations, Saudi citizens, after an hour of incoherent rambling by an idiot about how America is great and Islam is bad, you will be treated to the same experience in musical form in the accompanying musical performance by Toby Keith.

Real missed opportunity to end the world with 'Wang Dang Sweet Poontang.'
posted by octobersurprise at 9:06 AM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

Oh, Road to the White House is a great game. I haven't played it in years.
posted by eckeric at 9:07 AM on May 18, 2017

Advisers Urge Trump to Hire an Outside Lawyer: Mr. Trump has signaled he is likely to hire a new lawyer, but has not yet made a decision, according to three people who have spoken with him. Aides to Mr. Trump did not immediately comment on his discussions.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:07 AM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

Unless all the skirt-wearers of Fox News live on a boat, their skirts will be lowered to half-STAFF. Yes, this is a pet peeve of mine.
posted by xyzzy at 9:07 AM on May 18, 2017 [30 favorites]

What illegal things is Obama supposed to have done? I keep seeing this talking point from the right. I know they're delusional, but what are they even talking about?

If you dig around a bit you can find a lot of "scandals" they claim took place during the Obama administration. Most are obviously total bullshit (Benghazi, of course).

The three big ones they like to mention when they want to appear reasonable are the myth of the IRS targeting right wing groups, giving Iran back its money, and the Fast And Furious arms tracking fuckup. Of the three, the Fast and Furious is the only one that is real, since the IRS did not actually target right wing groups and the US was legally obligated to give Iran back its money.

And Fast and Furious was a massive fuckup.

A few will also mention Solyndra.

Basically what they've actual, really, got that isn't total paranoid right wing fantasy, is a weapons trafficking fuckup, and a bad business decision.
posted by sotonohito at 9:08 AM on May 18, 2017 [12 favorites]

My instinct is that our best hope for avoiding World War III next week is if the Saudi government makes sure nobody attending either Trump's speech or the Toby Keith concert speaks fluent English.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:08 AM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

He's going to have to hire two lawyers. They only work for him in pairs.
posted by cmfletcher at 9:10 AM on May 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

Don't get me started on Trump parodies in old games, I booted up Pizza Tycoon a few weeks ago and Diamond Trump has one of the best balances between starting cash and high charisma/popularity stats it made me so sad.
posted by yellowbinder at 9:11 AM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

Also, Eric Holder was cited for contempt of Congress when he refused to turn over documents related to Fast & Furious, which I'm sure is going to be a comparison we'll hear now that Flynn is daring them to arrest him.

(Also, yes, F&F was a huge fuckup -- the Obama administration did worse things, but that was the worst one that counts as a "scandal" because it didn't have bipartisan support like omniversal spying and extrajudicial drone murder)
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:11 AM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

He's going to have to hire two lawyers. They only work for him in pairs.

Always two there are; no more, no less. A master and an apprentice.
posted by Behemoth at 9:12 AM on May 18, 2017 [17 favorites]

"This is the single greatest witch hunt of a politician in American history!" - DJT via Twitter just now

I hope that somewhere, Hillary Clinton, who arguably lost the Presidency in part due to decades of phony Republican witch hunts, is wearing a content and satisfied smile.
posted by Gelatin at 9:14 AM on May 18, 2017 [18 favorites]

Does Illuminati! have a Donald Trump card? I can't remember and the internet is not being helpful.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:14 AM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

But in walks a game night regular with an armload of vintage board games he picked up at a thrift store: among them, Road to the White House, (c) 1992.

I ran a game of RttWH online a few years ago in real time (each turn in the game is a week) – actually I ran two concurrent games, a R and a D one. The guy who won the R one did do with Grump, which he found hilarious. Said player is a moderate conservative who spends his days shaking his head sadly at the State of Things.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:14 AM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

xyzzy - are you the guy off of Twitter?
posted by Artw at 9:16 AM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

Unless all the skirt-wearers of Fox News live on a boat, their skirts will be lowered to half-STAFF. Yes, this is a pet peeve of mine.

Is that your twitter account currently being roasted for doing a "well, actually" on that tweet? If so I hope you have plenty of aloe.
posted by phearlez at 9:17 AM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

Dammit now I owe Artw a coke.
posted by phearlez at 9:18 AM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

AP: Palm Beach police report: Fox News founder Roger Ailes fell, hit his head and was seriously bleeding 8 days before death.

I don't mean to retroactively wish 8 days of bleeding to death on anyone, but....
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:19 AM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Is that your twitter account currently being roasted for doing a "well, actually" on that tweet? If so I hope you have plenty of aloe.

No. I stopped tweeting after I noticed that my ex-fiancé, his wife, and all his friends started following me one day. Was creepy af.
posted by xyzzy at 9:22 AM on May 18, 2017 [11 favorites]

Palm Beach police report: Fox News founder Roger Ailes fell, hit his head and was seriously bleeding 8 days before death.

Eight days is a long time to be ... ailing ...
posted by octobersurprise at 9:26 AM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

Chaffetz: ‘I Question’ Whether Comey Memos Are ‘Actually There’

Smart move, Jason. Trump dissed Comey's (and by extension, the IC 's and federal law enforcement's) sense of personal honor, integrity, and competence too. How's that working out for him so far?
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:29 AM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

Brian Beutler: Republicans Are as Tainted by the Russia Scandal as Trump

The basic nature of the pro-Trump subversion effort was known to GOP leaders before the parties’ conventions last year: The above conversation took place on June 15. Several weeks after the GOP officially nominated Trump in mid-July, in a secure setting with Obama administration officials and other members who receive classified briefings, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell vowed to politicize any effort on the part of the government to reveal that Russian intelligence was intervening in the election to help Trump. “According to several officials,” the Post reported, “McConnell raised doubts about the underlying intelligence and made clear to the administration that he would consider any effort by the White House to challenge the Russians publicly an act of partisan politics.”

Despite Ryan’s clear awareness of the truth, we can infer that he sided with McConnell, tacitly or otherwise, because the Obama administration backed down in the face of McConnell’s threat. An official government assessment that Russia was helping Trump in the election didn’t reach the public until after the election, as Trump was transitioning to the presidency.

Unless this story has a second act, McCarthy and Ryan will stick to the explanation that their Putin-paying-Trump speculation was meant to be a joke. But even if that part of the conversation had never happened, the rest of it, and the later briefing with Obama officials, tell a perfectly rounded story of congressional Republicans’ complicity in Russian sabotage of the Clinton campaign. There is no way to walk this one back—and it wasn’t locker room talk.

posted by zombieflanders at 9:37 AM on May 18, 2017 [77 favorites]

Current incident involving a car hitting pedestrians in Times Square. Here's to hoping it's not the cover the administration wants and NEEDS right now to change the narrative and fuck the whole world up.
posted by lydhre at 9:40 AM on May 18, 2017

pretty happy with this I must say
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:41 AM on May 18, 2017 [10 favorites]

> Dude can't find a phone number with both hands, so yeah, a memo might be tricky.

Also he wasn't too sure on the location of his "subpoena" pen.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 9:41 AM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

AP: Palm Beach police report: Fox News founder Roger Ailes fell, hit his head and was seriously bleeding 8 days before death.

The only witness to Ailes' fall was an unnamed gardener, seen in this file photo cradling his favorite icepick.
posted by Behemoth at 9:42 AM on May 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

The car was being driven by a 26 year old man from the Bronx, who reportedly had prior DWI convictions. One person has been killed. Approximately 20 injured. Local stations are deliberately reporting that this was not a terrorist incident.
posted by zarq at 9:42 AM on May 18, 2017 [14 favorites]

Subpoenas are apparently meaningless now anyway.
posted by Artw at 9:42 AM on May 18, 2017

Here's to hoping it's not the cover the administration wants and NEEDS right now to change the narrative and fuck the whole world up.

i suspect we are past the point where anything short of 9/11 redux will take the press's eye off the ball
posted by murphy slaw at 9:42 AM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

It's already been determined to be an unfortunately run-of-the-mill accident, lydhre, possibly a DUI or DWI. The driver fled the scene, has since been arrested, and the NYPD is saying there are no connections to terrorism.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:43 AM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

icepick

ICE AXE
ICE AXE!
ICE AXE!!!

… okay i feel better now
posted by murphy slaw at 9:43 AM on May 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

Awesome, for various definitions of awesome that involve me feeling really relieved and very sorry that people got hurt at all.
posted by lydhre at 9:44 AM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

Trump has cancelled his trip to Masada per Newsweek because he couldn't land his helicopter up there.

Fuck, y'big baby, I walked up. You could have used the cable car, but OK. I'd rather you didn't go up anyway.
posted by Sophie1 at 9:46 AM on May 18, 2017 [36 favorites]

What's the betting that Alex Jones calls this a reverse-false-flag?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:46 AM on May 18, 2017

Late because I've been on a train all afternoon, but:

Make witch hunting great again!

BRB...going to print off ten thousand copies of Malleus Trumpificarum.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 9:46 AM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

Josh Marshall things that both Flynn and Pence are in Big Trouble:

If I’m understanding the timeline correctly, Flynn [worked to can an anti-ISIS operation involving Kurdish fighters] when the Trump team already knew he was a paid agent working on behalf of Turkey, indeed, already knew the DOJ was investigating him for that undisclosed payment. You can likely make determinations about people who lived or died because of this decision. It doesn’t get more serious because it’s not just about abstract decision-making but life and death when illegal money is involved and the cash is arguably driving the decisions.

You can already see where the Times story about Flynn notifying McGahn and the McClatchy story fit together. There’s another way too. Vice President Mike Pence is often portrayed as Trump’s squeaky clean, perhaps goofy second, ready to take over if the avalanche of scandal overwhelms Trump. As I noted earlier this week, this is far from the case. Pence has managed to get implicated in most if not all of the big scandals – that just hasn’t gotten a lot of attention yet.

In this case, Pence was saying in March that he was only just learning about Flynn’s work for Turkey. But we now learn that Flynn had notified McGahn he was being investigated by the DOJ for that work at the beginning of January.

Well, that’s McGahn, not Pence.

But remember, Pence ran the Transition!

Every last one of these folks are either involved in the administration's scandals or are too stupid to understand what was happening. Neither is acceptable. It's very important to keep questioning the credibility of everyone in the administration--Pence, Flynn, Sessions, Tillerson, DeVos (neé Prince), Kushner, and all the rest, as well as folks like McConnell, Ryan, McCarthy, and so forth. The Republican party must be held accountable for what they have wrought.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:47 AM on May 18, 2017 [42 favorites]

Flynn can definitely stall congress and very well might get away with it, at least until he's subpoenaed by Muellers investigation.

That's the next shoe to drop. From yesterday's bombshell NYT article:

In congressional testimony, the acting FBI director, Andrew G. McCabe, has confirmed the existence of a “highly significant” investigation into possible collusion between Trump’s associates and Russian operatives to sway the presidential election. The pace of the investigations has intensified in recent weeks, with a veteran espionage prosecutor, Brandon Van Grack, now leading a grand jury inquiry in Northern Virginia that is scrutinizing Flynn’s foreign lobbying and has begun issuing subpoenas to businesses that worked with Flynn and his associates.

The New York Times has reviewed one of the subpoenas. It demands all “records, research, contracts, bank records, communications” and other documents related to work with Flynn and the Flynn Intel Group, the business he set up after he was forced out as chief of the Defense Intelligence Agency in 2014.

Mueller will need a little while to get up to speed, but Comey's investigation is rolling along under its own momentum.
posted by Doktor Zed at 9:49 AM on May 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

I went ahead and created an obituary thread for Roger Ailes. I'm not a fan of his politics but you cannot deny his influence on the media, political landscape, and American society.
posted by Fizz at 9:52 AM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

Dude has some serious traversal of vertical space problems.
posted by Artw at 9:52 AM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

Man, Flynn is fucked. How long till he tries to grab a flight to Ankara?
posted by Existential Dread at 9:52 AM on May 18, 2017

Flynn is not fucked. He can wait out Western Democracy and the rule of law.
posted by Artw at 9:53 AM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

I am still amazed that Trump is somehow outdoing Bush on awfulness and laziness.

I wonder if it was laziness, or a power thing, like "I'm the president of the USA, I should be able to land my helicopter anywhere."
posted by drezdn at 9:55 AM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

Talking points for an independent, public commission when we all call our Congresscritters today:

- While the appointment of a special prosecutor is an essential first step, it's not enough

- We, the People, must know the full extent of how the Russian Federation interfered in our election, whether or not crimes were committed

- The commission should be non-partisan, largely open to the public, and firmly invested in both seeking the truth and providing recommendations so this subversion never happens again

- No business in the House/Senate should proceed uncontested until an independent commission is established
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:55 AM on May 18, 2017 [25 favorites]

.@NancyPelosi asked for response on Trump's tweet: "Honestly? Honestly? How'd he spell witch hunt?"

Meanwhile, the Trump campaign is sending out all-caps pitches about how "support for President stronger than ever." They're just living in their own reality over there.

And Sen. Burr, who earlier said Flynn won't honor the subpoena, now has changed his tune says that Flynn's lawyers haven't stated their intentions yet.
posted by zachlipton at 9:56 AM on May 18, 2017 [22 favorites]

Fuck, y'big baby, I walked up. You could have used the cable car, but OK. I'd rather you didn't go up anyway.

The fact that he can't even be bothered to take the cable car speaks volumes.
posted by zarq at 9:57 AM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

No matter what we discover about Trumpian skulduggery, it's likely that we won't find out that he actually stole the election. Trump's the legit Pres, until he's not, so Gorsuch is a legit Supreme.

But McConnell unquestionably -- and proudly; he bragged about it in public -- stole Obama's SCOTUS pick. Of course Gorsuch is illegitimate.
posted by Gelatin at 9:59 AM on May 18, 2017 [15 favorites]

Everything I've heard about the trip describes it as packed and of the whirlwind variety, is it conceivable walking or taking the cable car simply would take too long out of the schedule?
posted by DynamiteToast at 10:00 AM on May 18, 2017

News of the president’s cancellation stirred reactions among observers of the American-Israeli relationship and officials inside the country. “Well Masada was too hot, so we found a great spot instead for POTUS,” Eitan Weiss, deputy spokesperson for the Israeli Foreign Ministry tweeted, appearing to mock the reason for the cancellation. “@IsraelMuseum. The Dead Sea Scrolls make an important setting.”

When the Foreign Ministry is mocking you on Twitter before your trip, that is not a sign that you're about to have a good visit.
posted by zachlipton at 10:00 AM on May 18, 2017 [19 favorites]

Meanwhile, the Trump campaign is sending out all-caps pitches about how "support for President stronger than ever." They're just living in their own reality over there.

That's what worries me. On the one hand you could see this as just denialism from a person/team in trouble. On the other it could be laying the groundwork to declare election results he doesn't like invalid (he can't do that legally, but when has that stopped him before?).

I still don't think the Republicans are ready to wage civil war, and that's what invalidating elections would do, but it bothers me deeply that the Trump team seems to be preparing his worshipers for that sort of thing.
posted by sotonohito at 10:00 AM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

The fact that he can't even be bothered to take the cable car speaks volumes.

He's scared of stairs. You think he's going to trust some brown people's cable car?
posted by Sophie1 at 10:00 AM on May 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

I wonder if it was laziness, or a power thing, like "I'm the president of the USA, I should be able to land my helicopter anywhere."

It's both scoops of ice cream, I'm sure.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:01 AM on May 18, 2017 [12 favorites]

The fact that he can't even be bothered to take the cable car speaks volumes.

Probably a phobia, related to his fear of stairs maybe.
posted by scalefree at 10:01 AM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

Flynn is not fucked. He can wait out Western Democracy and the rule of law.

oh ok

Seriously though, Flynn is looking a lot like Scooter Libby: the underling who'll take the brunt of the rap to protect Pence/Trump/McConnell et al. I'd be surprised if he managed get out from under this, particularly with all the public scrutiny.
posted by Existential Dread at 10:03 AM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Hiking to the plateau is pretty challenging - so it's not surprising that he's not doing that. It's about a 2-3 hour hike, but the cable car only takes a few minutes.
posted by Sophie1 at 10:03 AM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

He's scared of stairs.

Seriously?
posted by zarq at 10:04 AM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

The fact that he can't even be bothered to take the cable car speaks volumes.

Visiting, with great pomp and pronouncement, a place that's essentially synonymous with holing up with a diminishing number of suicidally loyal fanatics -- and then being too lazy to actually go through with anything.

I mean say what you will about the Sicari Zealots, at least it was an ethos.
posted by saturday_morning at 10:04 AM on May 18, 2017 [29 favorites]

I'd just like to note that while we're all watching the car crash, the administration is getting ready to submit their proposed budget for the DeVos Department of Education, featuring $9.2 billion in funding cuts, and a transfer of $1B in funding from Title I programs that serve low income communities to -- you guessed it -- school choice programs.

I've given up calling my Reps and Senators about impeachment. What will happen will happen. But this -- THIS -- is in some ways more important.
posted by anastasiav at 10:04 AM on May 18, 2017 [43 favorites]

Know this – @POTUS Donald Trump will sign into law the most consequential tax cut in American history.
-- Vice President Mike Pence

okay sure, but like, the black plague was consequential
posted by murphy slaw at 10:04 AM on May 18, 2017 [35 favorites]

Speaking of his Israel visit:

@Martin_Indyk: Israeli newspaper Yediot is reporting "chaos" in the American preparations for Trump's visit. They've dubbed him "Mr. Balagan."

Haaretz has helpfully provided a primer on the term "balagan" for those not in the know.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:05 AM on May 18, 2017 [33 favorites]

That's the amazing thing about Flynn - any other scandal he's be the obvious guy to throw under the bus and distance themselves from, then move on... But with this they could only just bear to fire the guy and have stood by him ever since. His dirt is serious dirt, and I suspect everybody falls with him, but the downside is that means they will protect him till the end.
posted by Artw at 10:06 AM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

Know this? Is that like a threat?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:06 AM on May 18, 2017 [13 favorites]

OK. It only takes an hour and a half to hike it (it seemed like it took forever!) but the cable car takes 3 minutes according to Masada Tours.
posted by Sophie1 at 10:06 AM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

If Trump is upset with Jared now because of his advice about Comey, imagine how furious he'll be when he realized Jared planned this trip and he's jetlagged and getting dragged from place to place and missing his toilet and generally miserable.
posted by zachlipton at 10:07 AM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

if it's a furnicular rail car then it's basically a set of stairs on wheels so it's a no go for trump
posted by murphy slaw at 10:08 AM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

frecklefaerie: Also, with Chaffetz's resignation... Since the term just started, doesn't that mean it's a special election, not that a replacement is appointed?

Lawmakers want to set rules for replacing Chaffetz (Deseret News, May 17, 2017)

Lawmakers ratcheted up their fight with Gov. Gary Herbert Wednesday over how the state should handle a vacancy in Congress should Rep. Jason Chaffetz, R-Utah, step down.

Both House and Senate Republicans voted unanimously in their lunchtime caucus meetings to tell the governor to call a special session of the Legislature so a law can be passed putting a special election process in place.

GOP lawmakers now have agreed to a plan for conducting a special election to fill the 3rd District congressional seat that would have political party delegates nominate candidates instead of holding a primary.

That would involve "as many people as possible in as short a time as possible," and permit an election for a new member of Congress during the municipal primary vote in August, Senate President Wayne Niederhauser, R-Sandy, said.

But the Republican governor isn't budging from what House Speaker Greg Hughes, R-Draper, labeled a "secret plan" for a 180-day or so election process that still allows candidates to gather voter signatures for a place on the primary ballot.

Republicans in the Utah House and Senate voting unanimously against the wishes of the Republican governor? Good luck, Utah!
posted by filthy light thief at 10:08 AM on May 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

Haaretz has helpfully provided a primer on the term "balagan" for those not in the know.

Sounds like a real balagan eskhol over there.
posted by Strange Interlude at 10:10 AM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

The other theory is that he's really particular about where he poops and needs to be within sight of a helicopter that can whisk him away to there.
posted by Artw at 10:11 AM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

There was an article a while back that talked about Trump liking to talk about and describe things he does like scenes from a movie. It gave a bunch of examples.
I'm gonna go with Trump had this big epic scene in his mind of flying up to the epically cool place, circle landing in his helicopter and striding out and being all look at me I'm Awesome.
Having to take a cable car isn't a very good movie scene and a total letdown if you've been dreaming about the epic version.
posted by Jalliah at 10:13 AM on May 18, 2017 [10 favorites]

Hiking to the plateau is pretty challenging - so it's not surprising that he's not doing that.

Yeah, both Clinton and Bush took the cable car and they were a lot younger. Clinton was around 20 years younger then, than Trump is now and Bush, 10.

cjelli, thanks. Fascinating.
posted by zarq at 10:14 AM on May 18, 2017

Chelsea Manning is now on Instagram! Here's her first selfie as a free woman.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:14 AM on May 18, 2017 [63 favorites]

As much as I would like to believe that Trump has some phobia about a common architectural feature, it seems more likely that he is a 70 year-old glutton who has never exercised.

Though, given his reported reasoning for not exercising, maybe he believes that a human being has to go up and down an equal number of stairs in their lifetime, so he's counting them carefully.
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 10:15 AM on May 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

CABLE CARS ARE CINEMATIC GODDAMIT.
posted by Artw at 10:15 AM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

Artw. I personally agree that they are but this is Trump..
posted by Jalliah at 10:17 AM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

I wonder if he's put off having knee or hip surgery, and finds slopes & stairs painful or frightening because of the fall risk? And in the public eye, I could see a potential for stumbling or losing his balance (especially given his handshake-optics overkill) causing anxiety (especially in front of cameras / the public / dignitaries). Given how hard his campaign was on Clinton when she showed physical weakness, I can only imagine he's terrified of face-planting or wobbling on aging joints.
posted by pammeke at 10:19 AM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

Tweet from Molly Ball:

Asked a longtime House GOP staffer where things are headed. "This is like Reservoir Dogs. Everyone ends up dead on the floor."

posted by ZeusHumms at 10:20 AM on May 18, 2017 [61 favorites]

He doesn't even walk down the stairs in his own residence. Thus Escalator Day.
posted by tzikeh at 10:21 AM on May 18, 2017

Maybe someone should tell Trump that if you take the cable car and everyone else in your group takes the ramp, you can have an ice cream at the bottom, and then when everyone else finally arrives you can say, "Hey, want to get some ice cream?" ... and if they say yes, then you get two ice creams.

Shut up, the three year old couldn't do the hike and it was really hot out, you can't prove anything.
posted by Mchelly at 10:21 AM on May 18, 2017 [28 favorites]

I can only imagine he's terrified of face-planting or wobbling on aging joints.

Likewise, loss of balance/coordination is an early symptom of Alzheimer's and dementia.
posted by Doktor Zed at 10:21 AM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

He's scared of stairs.

i say we build a special cell for him based on chand baori
posted by entropicamericana at 10:22 AM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

"Nixon Sees 'Witch-Hunt,' Insiders Say" - Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein July 22, 1973
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 10:23 AM on May 18, 2017 [71 favorites]

There are a host of things that could cause slopes and stairs to either be painful or otherwise uncertain to the footing of (or both), for example, 35-year-old me, much less 70-year-old him. Not that it's impossible that he has a phobia, but jumping to that seems to involve some really questionable level of judgment about mental health conditions more than anything else. Much like comments about his weight, this gets very into Can We Not kind of territory.
posted by Sequence at 10:23 AM on May 18, 2017 [16 favorites]

Asked a longtime House GOP staffer where things are headed. "This is like Reservoir Dogs. Everyone ends up dead on the floor."

And the related follow-up:

Love the Reservoir Dogs analogy:

- Evil white guys in suits
- No roles for women
- Mr Orange is lying the whole time
posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:25 AM on May 18, 2017 [85 favorites]

If Trump can't go to Masada perhaps Masada should go to Trump
posted by vbfg at 10:25 AM on May 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

I'd be a lot more sympathetic to an unhidden stairs phobia or pooping problem, especially in someone so inclined to attack whatever he sees as weakness in others.
posted by Artw at 10:26 AM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

Among all of Trump's oddities, the fact that he's a 70-year-old man who is a bit timid about stairs is really the least interesting or unusual.

The ice cream thing though, that still bothers me maybe 80% as much as selling the country out to Putin. It's just plain rudeness.
posted by zachlipton at 10:26 AM on May 18, 2017 [13 favorites]

I've found that an astonishing amount of out of shape people subscribe to that inane finite battery theory. It's gotta be some collision of inertia and reflexive thinking.

But they don't really believe that? They are saying it like my Dad with the ol' "I'm not an alcoholic, alcoholics go to those meetings!", right, they know they are bullshitting themselves?

Now Trump, I have no problem thinking he believes it.
posted by thelonius at 10:27 AM on May 18, 2017

Shut up, the three year old couldn't do the hike and it was really hot out, you can't prove anything.

Your secret is safe with us. :)

My wife's climbed the snake path at least 4 or 5 times with groups. She once asked one of their Israeli guides how long it would take him to ascend if he didn't have to shepherd them.

"About 15 minutes."

It took the group almost an hour to go 2 kilometers.
posted by zarq at 10:30 AM on May 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

It's a cable car. It's not any different-feeling than being in an elevator with windows. Source: I have been on the goddamn Masada cable car. I didn't die and neither have any of the millions of tourists who've taken it, as far as I know.

Now, the Masada plateau itself is a bit uneven ground with plenty of stairs, but I assume he'd just be going up for a photo op and not climbing down the side of the mountain to the North Palace or anything.

I think someone just explained to him how hot 30C is in American, and he got scared of fainting. Suspect the President doesn't have a lot of experience being in non-air-conditioned spaces.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:31 AM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

Toby Keith stands to gain a lot more by riling up the Saudis than by giving a ho-hum performance nobody will remember, right?

just putting this here so I can collect retroactive favorites in case it actually happens
posted by ryanrs at 10:33 AM on May 18, 2017 [11 favorites]

This whole thing has sparked an interesting discussion on my family text message, since my sister threw up on the top of Masada, along with several other very hung-over Birthright teenagers.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:34 AM on May 18, 2017 [18 favorites]

But they don't really believe that? They are saying it like my Dad with the ol' "I'm not an alcoholic, alcoholics go to those meetings!", right, they know they are bullshitting themselves?

I'm not so sure. Granted when I have come across it I haven't really attempted to go any deeper and it was usually with much older people so I just chalked it up to an older style of thinking.
posted by Jalliah at 10:35 AM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

BuzzFeed sues for records on Trump-Obama tapping tweets. DOJ says there are hundreds of communications related to the tweets, some of them classified, and BuzzFeed is suing to get them to hand them over.

And I know we already have the Toby Keith story here, but the AP story has a perfect lede:

American country singer Toby Keith, known for songs such as “Whiskey Girl” and “Beer For My Horses,” is scheduled to perform in the Saudi capital, Riyadh, this weekend in an event that coincides with President Donald Trump’s first overseas visit.

Saudi entertainment website Lammt, which is advertising the event, says Saturday’s free concert is open to men only. It will also feature an Arabian lute player.

posted by zachlipton at 10:37 AM on May 18, 2017 [19 favorites]

A helicopter is both higher-up and more dangerous than a cable car. Trump is doing this because he's annoyed they won't let him look cool.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:37 AM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

Toby Keith stands to gain a lot more by riling up the Saudis than by giving a ho-hum performance nobody will remember, right?

I was kind of wondering how his "Let's bomb brown people" shtick was going to be shoehorned into this whole thing...this makes sense.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:37 AM on May 18, 2017

Asked a longtime House GOP staffer where things are headed. "This is like Reservoir Dogs. Everyone ends up dead on the floor."

♫ Stuck in the Oval with ew ♫
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:38 AM on May 18, 2017 [11 favorites]

...I'm afraid of stairs. I've fallen down them a number of times in my life, and I swear they're out to get me.

Please don't let me have something in common with 45.
posted by sandraregina at 10:40 AM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

I can only imagine he's terrified of face-planting or wobbling on aging joints.

Likewise, loss of balance/coordination is an early symptom of Alzheimer's and dementia.

Regular age-related presbyopia (or bifocals) can also make going down stairs weird, said the creaky old bat.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:41 AM on May 18, 2017 [14 favorites]

Racism. It's a hell of a thing. The Racial Divide in State Medicaid Expansions:

Although overall public support is positively related to state adoption, we find that public support for the Medicaid expansion is racialized in two ways. First, there are large differences in support levels by race; and second, state adoption decisions are positively related to white opinion and do not respond to nonwhite support levels. Most importantly, there is evidence that when the size of the black population increases and white support levels are relatively low, the state is significantly less likely to expand the Medicaid program.

States are more likely to do the Medicaid expansion when white people want it. Nonwhite people: not so much.

And the AP checks in with the MAGA crowd and discovers what I think is safe to say are some low-information voters: Trump loyalists pay little heed to revelations rocking DC:

“I tuned it out,” said 44-year-old Michele Velardi, a mother of three sons, during a break from her job at a Staten Island hair salon. “I didn’t want to be depressed. I don’t want to feel that he’s not doing what he said, so I just choose to not listen.”

A few blocks away, die-hard Trump supporter Joseph Amodeo, 19, incorrectly praised the president for raising New York’s minimum wage, something enacted by Democrats in the Legislature. The college student had little understanding of the Trump administration’s deepening political struggles, but he offered a stern message to Trump’s critics.

“If you’re wishing for him to fail, you’re basically wishing for the pilot of the plane to crash,” Amodeo said. “You just gotta stick by him and hopefully he does things that benefit everyone.”

posted by zachlipton at 10:43 AM on May 18, 2017 [52 favorites]

Some new Jennifer Rubin columns, in which she questions the credibility and intelligence of many elected Republicans.

The more we learn about Russia connections, the worse it looks for all Republicans

McCarthy’s remark sounds like a bad joke, as his spokesman claimed, but the issue is not whether Trump was actually receiving rubles from the Kremlin. McCarthy and fellow Republicans betray in this episode both a recognition of the degree to which Trump was behaving as Vladimir Putin’s lapdog and their own lack of seriousness about a presidential nominee who, if elected, would pose a threat to the United States’ national security. The glib, cavalier treatment of a potential national security threat reveals a level of immaturity and irresponsibility that we do not expect from elected officials, especially those in top leadership roles.[...]

Given the frequency with which Flynn and others reportedly communicated with Russian officials, flat denials by the president and his aides suggest either total ignorance of the actions of Trump subordinates or the capacity for bald-face, repeated lies to the American people. [...]
In all of this, neither Trump, his campaign officials and lawyers nor GOP leadership ever put America first. That’s the political sin at the root of all this, an irony that should not be lost on those who insisted that this was all a laugh riot.

Paul Ryan and House GOP are in denial as inferno engulfs White House

Ryan’s self-delusion persists in multiple ways.

First, he seems not to comprehend that his members will be judged on whether they stood up to an unfit president or instead played party politics. Ryan seems to ignore the possibility that voters will decide Congress cannot do its job — performing oversight and acting as a check on the executive branch — with the GOP in the majority. Continuing to minimize or ignore the inferno at the White House adds to the impression that the GOP is unconcerned or unable to deal with the danger Trump presents.

Second, what agenda? Ryan’s health-care bill has been panned by voters and experts alike. It’s so bad that Senate Republicans won’t touch it. And if by some miracle the bill does come back to the House, how in the world does Ryan expect to pass it? The notion that he has some super-popular agenda ready to sail through, be embraced by voters and be used to reelect members ignores political reality. (Some Congress-watchers say that if Ryan doesn’t have a firm plan for tax reform and a way to get it through on reconciliation, it is doomed to fail, just as health-care reform did.)

posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:43 AM on May 18, 2017 [34 favorites]

Ideally, trump's old hooptie 757 will be waiting for him at one of the airports on his upcoming trip and he'll quickly resign while making a beeline to it from AF1 then disappear into Russian airspace.

I do wonder if it's being stored at government expense.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:45 AM on May 18, 2017

so I just choose to not listen

I reject your reality and replace it with my own.
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:46 AM on May 18, 2017 [10 favorites]

Torture Apologist John Yoo: Forget Watergate. Think Iran-Contra

… i'd quote it but it comes down to an incredibly tight legalistic reading of the obstruction of justice charge and the assumption that nothing more damning will be exposed by Mueller's investigation, along with a healthy slice of the expansive interpretation of presidential power that yoo is infamous for.
posted by murphy slaw at 10:47 AM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

American country singer Toby Keith, known for songs such as “Whiskey Girl” and “Beer For My Horses,” is scheduled to perform in the Saudi capital, Riyadh, this weekend in an event that coincides with President Donald Trump’s first overseas visit.

Saudi entertainment website Lammt, which is advertising the event, says Saturday’s free concert is open to men only. It will also feature an Arabian lute player.

I can think of few things less palatable than a Toby Keith concert with a dude-only audience.
posted by Existential Dread at 10:47 AM on May 18, 2017 [42 favorites]

Haaretz has some fun imagining what President Trump will tweet [fake tweets, real humor].
posted by kprincehouse at 10:48 AM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

zachlipton: Saudi entertainment website Lammt, which is advertising the event, says Saturday’s free concert is open to men only. It will also feature an Arabian lute player.

I'm guessing it's an oud player, which is the most interesting thing in this terrible batch of nonsense. Will the oud player back Toby Keith, or be an opener?
posted by filthy light thief at 10:50 AM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

I can only imagine he's terrified of face-planting or wobbling on aging joints.

My unsubstantiated theory combines the stairs thing with Samantha Bee's "Can Trump Read" segment with the several instances of Trump not seeing that a person who he is talking about is right next to/in front of him: He has some sort of serious vision problem that he manages to cover for most of the time.
posted by mikepop at 10:50 AM on May 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

I reject your reality and replace it with my own.

Thank the Lord we liberals don't live in our own alternative reality, where Trump is juuuuust on the verge of being impeached and possibly even executed for his terrible crimes.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:51 AM on May 18, 2017 [20 favorites]

WaPo summarizes the last 24 hours of bombshells. They forgot the Toronto Connection!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:52 AM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

It's gotten to the point that I'm expecting something in the morning and then anticipating what is going to drop at the end of the day and if it doesn't happened I'm going to feel disappointed. If this was an actual political thriller today's early evening drop would be something really good that would give the antagonist an extra dose of anxiety right before his 'big important trip'. Something that would spin the knife even deeper. I feel like the leakers are attempting a narrative so who knows.
posted by Jalliah at 10:53 AM on May 18, 2017

I'm throwing things here. Lieberman emerges as frontrunner for FBI post.

Some thoughts on ending regular press briefings from David Frum:

4. If the Trump White House now ceases on-camera briefings, it’s not to “punish the press.” It’s because the method has ceased to work.
5. The lies are being discredited & disbelieved - and the discrediting process is sinking Trump’s poll numbers even among former supporters
6. If the briefings are ended, it’s because the White House feels it’s losing the messaging war to the forces of truth.
7. It’s shifting from offense to defense, like an exhausted boxer who quits throwing punches and instead just feebly tries to block

Bonus dictionary shade: 'Councel' is by far our most looked up misspelling today.
posted by zachlipton at 10:53 AM on May 18, 2017 [26 favorites]

Between my terrible nearsightedness and the shape of my glasses, I have to do the thing where I look at my feet and hold the railing while going down stairs. I should probably have bifocals, but I don't yet. I'm not afraid of stairs, but I'd like to avoid going ass over teakettle whenever possible.
posted by Autumnheart at 10:54 AM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

I'm guessing it's an oud player,

Dude with an oud.
posted by Floydd at 10:54 AM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

Politico is reporting Joe Lieberman is really the front runner for replacing Comey. Really.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:54 AM on May 18, 2017 [10 favorites]

Lieberman emerges as frontrunner for FBI post.

where once were my evens, now only comes vomit
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:55 AM on May 18, 2017 [31 favorites]

Lieberman emerges as frontrunner for FBI post.

if any media source refers to his "bipartisan appeal" i swear i am going to set something on fire
posted by murphy slaw at 10:56 AM on May 18, 2017 [39 favorites]

Every time someone mentions Lieberman, my reaction is always, "Wait, that asshole's still alive?"
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:56 AM on May 18, 2017 [48 favorites]

TPM: Pence Insists He Didn’t Know DOJ Was Investigating Flynn For Turkey Lobbying: Pence “stands by his comments in March upon first hearing the news regarding General Flynn’s ties to Turkey and fully supports the president’s decision to ask for General Flynn’s resignation,” his office said in a statement to USA Today.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:57 AM on May 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

lol I literally the other day was talking about how Lieberman had died. I thought he'd been dead this whole time.
posted by gucci mane at 10:59 AM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

I heard the short list was Lieberman, Alan Colmes, and Zel Miller. Colmes is dead and Miller had an "out duelin'" sign hung on his front door.
posted by cmfletcher at 11:00 AM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

I thought he'd been dead this whole time.

FBI Director/Demilich Lieberman
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:00 AM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

Only good thing about Lieberman is that he's 75. There's little chance he can serve a 10yr term, and pushing him aside if we're all still alive and a Democratic presidency in 2020 would be easy, unlike say impeaching Gorsuch, which Democrats should also do.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:01 AM on May 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

Wait, are Trumps fervent Neo-nazis going to allow a Jewish person to be appointed quietly? Has Trump gotten rid of the racists shitheels in his entourage?
posted by Twain Device at 11:01 AM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Lieberman emerges as frontrunner for FBI post

FLAMES
FLAMES DOWN THE SIDE OF MY PENIS
posted by delfin at 11:01 AM on May 18, 2017 [17 favorites]

lol this conversation, dude. I should probably shut this tab because I don't even know what's real anymore.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:02 AM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

(This shouldn't surprise me, but I just love that there are Illuminati players in here. My people! ♡♡♡)
posted by Westringia F. at 11:02 AM on May 18, 2017 [11 favorites]

If Pence is telling the truth (he's not), he apparently leads transition teams like he does everything else: the most damaging possible way. Once is a misfortune, two is careless, and every other time is proof of illegal activity of some sort.

[I'm really only posting this so I can paraphrase Oscar Wilde when talking about Pence because that's the kind of thing that would probably piss him and Mother off.]
posted by MCMikeNamara at 11:02 AM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

Wait, are Trumps fervent Neo-nazis going to allow a Jewish person to be appointed quietly?

sure, Daddy knows how to pick out the good ones
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:04 AM on May 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

if any media source refers to his "bipartisan appeal" i swear i am going to set something on fire

But he does have bipartisan appeal. He got all the Democratic committee positions while simultaneously voting with Republicans whenever it was convenient for him.
posted by Talez at 11:04 AM on May 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

Only good thing about Lieberman is that he's 75. There's little chance he can serve a 10yr term

Doesn't matter. Trump is playing a game of inches from his own 20 yard line. He just has to finger-in-the-dike until things settle down and he's recognized as a competent ruler.
posted by rhizome at 11:05 AM on May 18, 2017

If you want to look at the Senate's healthcare efforts, The Hill has an article on which lobby groups to watch in the Senate healthcare fight, while CNN reported on Monday that

After last week's negotiations, which included two official GOP health care working group meetings -- one on the future of Medicaid and another on Obamacare regulations -- one Republican aide familiar with the talks said point blank they were "much less optimistic that something will get done" despite public statements about "productive meetings" coming from GOP senators.

Early predictions (and the hope of some House moderates) had been that the Senate's health care bill would quickly move to the left when it moved to the upper chamber, but behind the scenes, conservatives are acting as a powerful force.

In the middle of the action is Texas Republican Sen. Ted Cruz, a lawmaker who might once have been a thorn in the side of leadership, but now finds himself a key player at the negotiating table.

"That is not going to be easy," Cruz told reporters this week about the process, adding, "The conversations we are having are productive. We are seeing senators across the ideological spectrum, working to try to get to 'yes,' and that is exactly the inclusive process that we have to employ if we are going to get to a bill that commands the support of 50 senators."

The article goes on to quote Republican senators who want the Senate version to go farther in cutting features of ACA, while citing heated town hall debates and Jimmy Kimmel's emotional description of his infant child's health problems and the importance of affordable coverage for pre-existing conditions. In short:

Republican senators involved in the effort emphasize that they are just getting started in the process and no decisions have been made yet.

I imagine the recent Russia bombshells haven't helped any effort to keep the discussions moving.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:06 AM on May 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

Only good thing about Lieberman is that he's 75.

Beltway Early Bird dinners must be happenin' things these days.
posted by octobersurprise at 11:08 AM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

Ted Cruz trying to be a facilitator. Who knew stripping healthcare from poor and sick people was something where he could finally find a passion for governing.
posted by Talez at 11:12 AM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

Pence “stands by his comments in March upon first hearing the news regarding General Flynn’s ties to Turkey and fully supports the president’s decision to ask for General Flynn’s resignation,” his office said in a statement to USA Today.

Ah, so he's going with the "I'm a completely incompetent person who, as head of the transition team, had no idea that the guy we were looking at for NSA was under investigation" defense

ok dude
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:12 AM on May 18, 2017 [36 favorites]

Ah, so he's going with the "I'm a completely incompetent person who, as head of the transition team, had no idea that the guy we were looking at for NSA was under investigation" defense

ok dude

Well, yeah. He's telling the truth there.
posted by Melismata at 11:13 AM on May 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

Burhanistan: Ideally, trump's old hooptie 757 will be waiting for him at one of the airports on his upcoming trip and he'll quickly resign while making a beeline to it from AF1 then disappear into Russian airspace.

... carrying the nuclear football? That would be .. um .. an interesting development.
posted by ringu0 at 11:16 AM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

I'd never even heard of the guy, but Curtis Ellis was sent home from the G-20 meetings just as the Secretary of Labor arrived [link is to tweet containing image of article since the article is behind the Bloomberg paywall].

This is a "special assistant to the secretary" who "once wrote that Democrats were conspiring to 'ethnically cleanse' America of its white working class. He's previously written for WorldNetDaily and once tweeted that Sen. McConnell was "China's bitch." He's reportedly up to run the Bureau of International Labor Affairs.

Thank goodness someone out there still covers the Department of Labor. How many of these horrible people are being put in the government that we don't even know about?
posted by zachlipton at 11:18 AM on May 18, 2017 [17 favorites]

Well, yeah. He's telling the truth there.

It does seem plausible, yes, but an even stupider explanation is that he knew, there's evidence that he knew, and he's still pretending like it won't come out and take him down with Trump.

So, you know. Trump's Razor, etc.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:19 AM on May 18, 2017 [10 favorites]

Let's just get this out there: the word "Lute" is derived from Arabic via Moorish Spain, hence "l'oud."

They'll put a lute in your ass, it's that Arabian way.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 11:20 AM on May 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

Regarding the Time magazine cover: A rival news outlet makes the case for plagiarism.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:21 AM on May 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

A little bit of levity. Novelist Victoria Aveyard compiled a series of gif reactions for each of the players in the current drama.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 11:23 AM on May 18, 2017 [21 favorites]

Pence “stands by his comments in March upon first hearing the news regarding General Flynn’s ties to Turkey and fully supports the president’s decision to ask for General Flynn’s resignation,” his office said in a statement to USA Today.

Elijah Cummings sent him a letter in November expressing concern over Flynn's lobbying activities for Turkey.
posted by melissasaurus at 11:25 AM on May 18, 2017 [54 favorites]

Elijah Cummings sent him a letter in November expressing concern over Flynn's lobbying activities for Turkey.

Welp, in my haste to do some slashing with Trump's Razor I overlooked an even more stupid explanation, that the evidence of Pence being directly made aware of this is already known and yet he continues to flatly deny.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:32 AM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

Deadspin: All That's Left To Say Is That The President Is A Big Dummy

"This is to say, virtually all the national news, right now and pretty much since the election, is about how hopeless and malignant an imbecile Donald Trump is. And with each day it becomes more clear that the primary activity within Trump’s White House is the frantic all-consuming effort to mitigate, contain, distract from, or profit off of the president’s very extreme stupidity."

posted by ZeusHumms at 11:33 AM on May 18, 2017 [38 favorites]

evidence of Pence being directly made aware of this is already known and yet he continues to flatly deny.

Principal Skinner: Superintendent, I hope you're ready for mouth-watering hamburgers.

Superintendant Chalmers: I thought we were having steamed clams.

Principal Skinner: Oh, no, I said, "steamed hams." That's what I call hamburgers.

Superintendant Chalmers: You call hamburgers steamed hams.

Principal Skinner: Yes, it's a regional dialect.

Superintendant Chalmers: Uh-huh. What region?

Principal Skinner: Uh, upstate New York.

Superintendant Chalmers: Really. Well, I'm from Utica and I never heard anyone use the phrase, "steamed hams."

Principal Skinner: Oh, not in Utica, no; it's an Albany expression.

Superintendant Chalmers: I see.

[Chalmers takes a bite of the "steamed ham"]

Superintendant Chalmers: You know, these hamburgers are quite similar to the ones they have at Krusty Burger.

Principal Skinner: Oh, no, patented Skinner Burgers. Old family recipe.

Superintendant Chalmers: For steamed hams.

Principal Skinner: Yes

Superintendant Chalmers: Yes, and you call them steamed hams despite the fact that they are obviously grilled.

[shows Skinner the grill marks]

Principal Skinner: Uh... you know... one thing I sh -... 'scuse me for one second.
posted by Existential Dread at 11:36 AM on May 18, 2017 [26 favorites]

Maybe Trump would reconsider skipping Masada if he knew there is a McDonalds at the visitor center.
posted by zachlipton at 11:36 AM on May 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

All The President's Steamed Hams
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:38 AM on May 18, 2017 [11 favorites]

oh god he would order a double cheeseburger
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:39 AM on May 18, 2017 [17 favorites]

really hoping that every nation on the tour serves the most outré items from their national cuisines at every state dinner, you know, to satisfy trump's wide-ranging palate.

served family-style, and eaten with the hands.
posted by murphy slaw at 11:41 AM on May 18, 2017 [16 favorites]

And be confused and angry that they won't add bacon.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:41 AM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

That's not evidence he's burning, it's the Aurora Borealis in his kitchen.
posted by cmfletcher at 11:41 AM on May 18, 2017 [13 favorites]

> oh god he would order a double cheeseburger.

Or a Fish Delight.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 11:42 AM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

He'd probably just complain that they're not serving the McRib at the Masada McDs.
posted by Strange Interlude at 11:42 AM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

That Simpsons episode can legally drink now, btw.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 11:44 AM on May 18, 2017 [23 favorites]

zachlipton: Thank goodness someone out there still covers the Department of Labor. How many of these horrible people are being put in the government that we don't even know about?

From way back in early March, last updated on April 28: Here are More than 400 Officials Trump has Quietly Deployed Across the Government (ProPublica)

There are only a few very short bios, and there's a bit more in the longer ProPublica article on the "beachhead" team, and Open Secrets has a bit more information, noting that many of those appointments are time-limited, but they can be extended, and hired on full-time.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:46 AM on May 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

> That Simpsons episode can legally drink now, btw.

Flagged as offensive. Mods, get this shit out of here.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:46 AM on May 18, 2017 [58 favorites]

Haaretz has some fun imagining what President Trump will tweet [fake tweets, real humor].

They're hilarious.. E.g.

Honored to be in Israel during 50th anniversary of reunification of Israel. Happened during the Six-Day War...I would have won it in five.

posted by Coventry at 11:46 AM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

The episode that predicted Trump's election in 2016 will be able to vote in the midterms.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:47 AM on May 18, 2017 [11 favorites]

Having to take a cable car isn't a very good movie scene and a total letdown if you've been dreaming about the epic version.

Maybe he has seen all the movies where the villains get tossed from cable cars.
posted by srboisvert at 11:49 AM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

I think he goes to jail for contempt of Congress? That's just bizarre. Well then, aren't we all going down for that? Is that even a law?
posted by Oyéah at 11:53 AM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

Whoa, Droopy's back? This is getting weird.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:55 AM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Between my terrible nearsightedness and the shape of my glasses, I have to do the thing where I look at my feet and hold the railing while going down stairs.

I had this sudden realization just now too. Trump's a 70-year old man; he almost certainly needs vision correction; but he's too vain to wear glasses routinely -- he probably thinks they're a sign of weakness! -- and given his suspected germophobia, he might be too squeamish to wear contacts. He's hesitant on stairs because he can't see them very well.

That would also explain the reports that he doesn't like to read.

And hey, look: here's Vice in 2016 speculating about Trump's squinting; and here's Trump on the primary trail mocking his opponents for wearing glasses.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 11:57 AM on May 18, 2017 [14 favorites]

I think he goes to jail for contempt of Congress? That's just bizarre. Well then, aren't we all going down for that? Is that even a law?

Contempt of Congress is illegal.
Contempt for Congress is a civil right.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:59 AM on May 18, 2017 [43 favorites]

I'm kind of doubtful it'll be Lieberman. I mean, yeah it wins on the whole liberal tears front, and sure appointing Lieberman would confirm Trump's Razor bigly.

But I don't think his handlers will let him do it. The Republicans would shit a brick. This is just more Trump saying whatever the last person he spoke with, he talked to Lieberman therefore he's now talking up Lieberman as FBI Director. As soon as his handlers get his ear he'll back someone else.
posted by sotonohito at 11:59 AM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Can anyone actually stop him if this is what he wants, though?

And seriously, are Bannon and all the other Nazi types going to be ok with a Jewish guy?

Things are crazy enough that it could happen, but the "why" is very unclear.
posted by emjaybee at 12:01 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

I wonder if Lieberman will request a letter of recommendation from his old running mate?
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:01 PM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

Doesn't congress have to approve the FBI director?
posted by INFJ at 12:03 PM on May 18, 2017

Washington Monthly: Trump is Being Taken Apart, Step By Step

Trump is getting taken down in a way I began predicting he would when he began publicly denigrating the Intelligence Community’s assessment of Russian involvement in the election. I don’t believe this would be happening if Trump were trustworthy and competent.

posted by ZeusHumms at 12:07 PM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

States are more likely to do the Medicaid expansion when white people want it. Nonwhite people: not so much.

I wonder if that's a basis for a lawsuit on equal protection grounds?
posted by Gelatin at 12:07 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Torture Apologist John Yoo: Forget Watergate. Think Iran-Contra

I don't know if Yoo quite gets this, but Iran-Contra was a much worse scandal than Watergate (thousands died, Iran paid off, etc.), it's just the actors were never punished appropriately, and Reagan got a pass for being plausibly demented.

Also: speaking of the Oud, this rendition of The Partisan showcases John Bilezikjian, and is also strangely apt for today's world.
posted by Rumple at 12:07 PM on May 18, 2017 [13 favorites]

lol I literally the other day was talking about how Lieberman had died. I thought he'd been dead this whole time.

He is, just on the inside.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:08 PM on May 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

Politico is reporting Joe Lieberman is really the front runner for replacing Comey. Really.

Well, Democrats will hate it, so that's probably as close to a win as they're likely to get the rest of this month.
posted by Gelatin at 12:11 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

@jaketapper: At lunch with TV anchors, POTUS says appointment of Special Counsel "hurts the country":

"It also happens to be a pure excuse for the Democrtas having lost an election that they should have easily won because of the Electoral College being slanted so much in their way. That's all this is."
posted by zachlipton at 12:12 PM on May 18, 2017 [22 favorites]

Does Lieberman even have any particular experience in law enforcement?
posted by thelonius at 12:13 PM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

whatever. We'll probably hear the same soon. C-span says:

President Trump and Colombian President Joint News Conference
President Trump and his Colombian counterpart, Juan Manuel Santos, speak to reporters at the White House and respond to questions on a range of issues, including the announcement of a special counsel to investigate Russia’s 2016 election meddling.

posted by INFJ at 12:14 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Does Lieberman even have any particular experience in law enforcement?

Attorney General for the state of Connecticut back in the 1980s, but yeah, kind of a stretch. The entire process of looking for an FBI director replacement has seemed like a case of "get me a list of 10 guys people have heard of!"
posted by AndrewInDC at 12:15 PM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

NEW: Trump is telling aides he wants Flynn *back in the White House.*
posted by Behemoth at 12:15 PM on May 18, 2017 [64 favorites]

Does Lieberman even have any particular experience in law enforcement?

Does this count?
posted by Strange Interlude at 12:15 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

"It also happens to be a pure excuse for the Democrats having lost an election that they should have easily won because of the Electoral College being slanted so much in their way. That's all this is."

We're at the "issuing orders to divisions that have already been destroyed by Stalin's armies" stage, people
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:16 PM on May 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

I'm having a hard time processing the pure laziness and greed of people like Chaffetz. As soon as he decided he wasn't going to run in 2018, doing his existing job became pointless to him. He can't stick around for a year and a half, because the money is better at Fox, or wherever on the wingnut welfare circuit he's going to land.
It's breathtaking how uninterested in the act of governance he is. Anyone with an interest in policy would love to have a term where they don't have to campaign! But apparently his current position was always just a stepping stone to him.

Chaffetz has always been a piece of shit; just ask John Huntsman.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:16 PM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

The Daily Beast: Donald Trump Talked Michael Flynn Into White House Job [after Flynn informed the transition he was under investigation]

President Donald Trump pressured a “reluctant” Michael Flynn into accepting a job as the White House’s top national security official even after Flynn warned the president that he was under investigation over undisclosed lobbying on behalf of a foreign government, The Daily Beast has learned.

Now, both men are paying a huge price for it.
...
But Trump doesn’t just hope that Flynn will beat the rap. Several sources close to Flynn and to the administration tell The Daily Beast that Trump has expressed his hopes that a resolution of the FBI’s investigation in Flynn’s favor might allow Flynn to rejoin the White House in some capacity—a scenario some of Trump’s closest advisers in and outside the West Wing have assured him absolutely should not happen.

Those sources said Trump didn’t believe Flynn should be under investigation in the first place.

“Trump feels really, really, really, bad about firing him, and he genuinely thinks if the investigation is over Flynn can come back,” said one White House official.
One former FBI official and a second government official said Trump thought he owed Flynn for how things ended up and was determined to clear Flynn’s name and bring him back to the White House.
...
The two have stayed in touch, according to a Yahoo News report Thursday, confirmed by multiple White House and administration sources....Such conversations would create “huge issues,” according to Zaid’s law partner, Brad Moss. “Talking with witnesses got Nixon in trouble.”

Just what is it with a man who demands absolute loyalty and extends none of his own being so obsessed with tying his future to Flynn?
posted by zachlipton at 12:16 PM on May 18, 2017 [37 favorites]

(This shouldn't surprise me, but I just love that there are Illuminati players in here. My people! ♡♡♡)

But normally I'm happy that the Discordians are winning.
posted by Gelatin at 12:16 PM on May 18, 2017 [14 favorites]

At lunch with TV anchors, POTUS says appointment of Special Counsel "hurts the country":

the other money quote from that:

"I believe it hurts our country terribly, because it shows we're a divided, mixed-up, not unified country."

why can't we get along? and then in the next breath he whines because the democrats won't get over the election.
posted by murphy slaw at 12:18 PM on May 18, 2017 [14 favorites]

I'm still unclear on why he thinks the electoral college leans towards Democrats. I'm not even entirely sure what it means for the electoral college to lean at all.
posted by Green With You at 12:18 PM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

Joe Lieberman disses the entire education establishment at Betsy DeVos’s confirmation hearing. (Joe Lieberman is a lobbyist these days whose firm was retained by Trump.)
posted by notyou at 12:19 PM on May 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

~~Deputy Attorney General~~Unidentified congressman says that the congressional investigations into Russia is now limited and that the investigation by the special counsel is now a criminal investigation. (It was a 'counter-intelligence investigation' before)
posted by INFJ at 12:19 PM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

I'm still unclear on why he thinks the electoral college leans towards Democrats. I'm not even entirely sure what it means for the electoral college to lean at all.

You say that like you think he knows what any of those words mean.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:20 PM on May 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

Just what is it with a man who demands absolute loyalty and extends none of his own being so obsessed with tying his future to Flynn?

he's a GENERAL. and it does sound like flynn may have extended some genuine kindness to him, which is like crack for someone with his personality defects.
posted by murphy slaw at 12:20 PM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

Between Trump, Pence and Flynn, it's beginning to look like Trump's the smartest one in that brain trust. I mean, by default, but still.
posted by klarck at 12:20 PM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

Yesterday or the day before (how can I be expected to remember) there was a story that one of the leakers is a "close aide" who remarked that often the leakers are people close to him, who he won't listen to about an issue and they know the only way to get it across to him that something is a bad idea is to leak it so the media will freak out. This latest "Trump wants Flynn back" is the most glaring example of that I think I've ever seen. I kinda wish everyone would ignore it so he wouldn't drop it with his aides.
posted by DynamiteToast at 12:21 PM on May 18, 2017 [17 favorites]

whoever he is, he approves of Joe Lieberman.
posted by INFJ at 12:21 PM on May 18, 2017

Assuming Pence isn't brought down by his own incompetence (Flynn was working for the Turks?! I had no idea! I got a letter? You don't say!) the Democrats better better get their pound of flesh from congressional Republicans before voting on either impeachment or 25th Anendment measures. They need to take advantage of growing Republican fears of getting saddled with Trump through the 2018 election. Don't vote Trump out until you get the filibuster back. Demand all Trump appointments be tossed. Kill ACHA. Fix ACA by appointing a bipartisan commission like the base closing commission from the 90s.

Make it clear to them that any pretense of a mandate from the people died with Trump's presidency and the only way forward for a Pence presidency is through moderation and compromise. The Republican's Lunatic Legistlative Buffet must come to an end.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 12:22 PM on May 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

I keep coming back go back to that 3am phone call when Trump called up Flynn to ask if a strong dollar was a good thing or a bad thing for the country and Flynn told him to ask an economist. Maybe Flynn was the only one who he could turn to. Maybe Flynn was the only one he liked, he doesn't understand this investigation business, and just wants his buddy back?
posted by zachlipton at 12:22 PM on May 18, 2017 [29 favorites]

President Trump and Colombian President Joint News Conference (C-Span, 3:45pm - 20 minutes from now)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:23 PM on May 18, 2017

Also Trump's a malignant narcissist who chafes when denied any action or object.

Or person, although he often confuses them with objects.
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:23 PM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

Assuming Pence isn't brought down by his own incompetence (Flynn was working for the Turks?! I had no idea! I got a letter? You don't say!)

Well if the letter wasn't certified... (sorry)
posted by AndrewInDC at 12:24 PM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

arstechnica.com: Net neutrality going down in flames as FCC votes to kill Title II rules
posted by jazzbaby at 12:24 PM on May 18, 2017 [29 favorites]

Also Trump's s malignant narcissist who chafes when denied any action or object.

And that's his most positive quality.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:24 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

And seriously, are Bannon and all the other Nazi types going to be ok with a Jewish guy?

Why should anyone care what Bannon, Gorka and the rest of the nazis think?

Anyway, there are already a bunch of Jews in Trump's inner circle or cabinet including Jared and Ivanka, Avi Berkowitz (who works with Jared), Boris Epshteyn, Steve Miller, Steve Mnuchin, Gary Cohn, Carl Icahn, David Shulkin and Reed Cordish.
posted by zarq at 12:24 PM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

Politico is reporting Joe Lieberman is really the front runner for replacing Comey.

Is he actually trying to get Democrats to love him again?
posted by corb at 12:25 PM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

That story does pull a neat trick though by reporting both that Flynn never wanted to go back in the government at all and that he was hoping to run the CIA or be DNI. Can't both be true.
posted by zachlipton at 12:25 PM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

lol I literally the other day was talking about how Lieberman had died. I thought he'd been dead this whole time.

He is, just on the inside.

As Grandmother Renault would say, "He died ages ago -- he just forgot to lay down."
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:26 PM on May 18, 2017 [36 favorites]

I wish I'd had caught the name of the congressman. To clarify, he said that congress in general seems supportive of the special counsel, that their investigation is now sidelined/backburnered because of this. He thinks that's because it's a criminal investigation but didn't confirm that's what Mueller is calling it. (he didn't get to asks his questions)
posted by INFJ at 12:26 PM on May 18, 2017

> They need to take advantage of growing Republican fears of getting saddled with Trump through the 2018 election. Don't vote Trump out until you get the filibuster back. Demand all Trump appointments be tossed. Kill ACHA. Fix ACA by appointing a bipartisan commission like the base closing commission from the 90s.

This is bonkers. How do you suppose Democrats pull this off when Republicans point out that it's the Democrats who are the ones keeping Trump from being impeached? Either Trump is a threat to the nation or he's not -- trying to use it as leverage suggests a willingness to keep him in the WH indefinitely, which nobody wants. And Trump OR Pence would just veto any of these things, requiring an impossible threshold of support to override.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:26 PM on May 18, 2017 [14 favorites]

I'm still unclear on why he thinks the electoral college leans towards Democrats. I'm not even entirely sure what it means for the electoral college to lean at all.

Because someone told him this once to fluff his ego and it made his victory seem more impressive so he latched onto it. And hey, California and New York are big states that Rs never win so it's clearly true. (it's not.)
posted by chris24 at 12:28 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

The Repubs do not care what Dems want or think. At all.
posted by delfin at 12:28 PM on May 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

I literally the other day was talking about how Lieberman had died. I thought he'd been dead this whole time.

Well, for most of us, having our cold unbeating heart stored in a phylactery would be a serious impediment to living and/or serving as the head of the FBI, yes. For a certain former undead vice-presidential candidate, though...
posted by Mayor West at 12:28 PM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

I wish I'd had caught the name of the congressman.

According to Twitter, it was Lindsey Graham.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:28 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

A congresswoman says that the deputy attorney general didn't elaborate much on Comey's firing. Evidently he did confirm that Comey knew that he was going to be fired prior to the memo. (Maybe Trump threatened him in the meeting when he asked Comey to let the investigation on Flynn go? My speculation here.)

She doesn't approve of appointing anyone who's run for office for Comey's replacement.
posted by INFJ at 12:29 PM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

@MsShannonFisher: "This was a counter-intelligence investigation. It is now a criminal investigation."~ Senator Lindsey Graham after meeting w/ DAG Rosenstein
posted by Existential Dread at 12:30 PM on May 18, 2017 [47 favorites]

I'm still unclear on why he thinks the electoral college leans towards Democrats. I'm not even entirely sure what it means for the electoral college to lean at all.

Remember, there was an unbreakable blue firewall.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:30 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Politico is reporting Joe Lieberman is really the front runner for replacing Comey.

Is he actually trying to get Democrats to love him again?

If he is, it's probably going to turn out similar to the time he tried to get Democrats to love him by firing Comey. What Democrat likes Lieberman? He's not just a Republican; he's a Republican who masqueraded (poorly) as a Democrat and then fucked the party first chance he got.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:30 PM on May 18, 2017 [21 favorites]

By all accounts, Donald Trump doesn't really have friends. He has associates, but he doesn't have people that he, invites over to hang out and watch the big game, or whatever. But maybe Mike Flynn was his first real friend. I'd feel kind of bad if they both weren't weeping pustules on the butt of the Republic.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:34 PM on May 18, 2017 [11 favorites]

???? seriously are they in love? are we so quick to judge that we might be missing the story of one of the great romances of our time??

Probably not, or Trump would have expressed his sexual desire for Flynn in a shock-jock interview, tweet, or presidential debate.
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:35 PM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

Here's the quote from Sen. McCaskill: "He did acknowledge that he learned Comey would be removed prior to him writing his memo."

That really doesn't make Rosenstein look great. He knew he was being setup to justify Comey's firing after the fact, and he did it anyway.
posted by zachlipton at 12:35 PM on May 18, 2017 [19 favorites]

For purposes of the timeline, Deputy AG Rosenstein today told Congress that he knew FBI Director James Comey would be removed prior to writing his memo.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:36 PM on May 18, 2017

The grift continues: Donald Trump Jr. Meets with Business Partner in Dubai

Donald Trump Jr. , held a meeting earlier this week in Dubai with a billionaire longtime business partner of Trump Organization, who said the two men had discussed “new ideas.”

While they promised they wouldn't do any new foreign deals, a spokeswoman said they weren't discussing a new deal, just having a "friendly lunch" with a business partner.
posted by zachlipton at 12:39 PM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

New Monmouth University Poll out on approval ratings (39%, down from 43% in March) and how Trump handled Comey's firing. Here's CNN's short article.

Nearly six in 10 Americans think it's likely that Trump dismissed Comey to hinder the investigation, the poll found. Just 20% believe the Trump administration's initial explanation that the firing was due to the way Comey handled the investigation into Hillary Clinton's use of a private email server. The poll finds 50% disapprove of Trump's firing of Comey while 36% approve.

[...]

The poll also finds that the negative shift in Trump's job approval rating since March is concentrated in counties where the vote margin between Clinton and Trump in 2016 was less than 10 percentage points.

Trump's biggest decline came among people in swing counties -- 300 total where the winning margin between Clinton and Trump was in the single digits. In those counties, Trump's rating dropped from 41% approval and 46% disapproval in March to 34% approval and 54% disapproval now.

A big majority of those polled -- 73% -- say the investigation into connections between Trump and Russia should continue.

posted by Mister Fabulous at 12:39 PM on May 18, 2017 [22 favorites]

But maybe Mike Flynn was his first real friend

Classic tradecraft.
posted by Rumple at 12:39 PM on May 18, 2017 [66 favorites]

Senator Rubio says: (yay they said his name aloud!)

- respects Mueller. Thinks he'll do a fair and independent investigation.
- Won't comment if it's a criminal investigation or the "justice department efforts"
- "the counter-intelligence matter moves forward"
- Great admiration for Lieberman, thinks he'd do a great job
- full confidence that the congress committee will continue the counter-intelligence investigation.
- He was very limited about what deputy attorney general said about comey's memo, wouldn't confirm Comey knew he'd be fired prior to writing the memo.
posted by INFJ at 12:40 PM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

unnamed congressman #2 says:

- Mueller is wildly respected (this is the only thing all of them agree on, lol)
- Deputy Attorney General declined to answer a lot of questions so he doesn't interfere with Mueller's investigation
- "He knew the day before" that he'd be fired prior to the memo. (May 8th is when he knew. 'He' here sounded like the deputy attorney general and not Comey?)
- "Witch Hunt" comments by Trump is an "outrageous statement." Mueller is fantastic and fair.
posted by INFJ at 12:46 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

One thought on Rosenstein (probably this has already surfaced and been knocked down somewhere) - is it possible he was in the process of getting Mueller to sign on as special counsel when he wrote the memo covering for the firing of Comey? I can't believe that's something you can put together overnight, and if he was in the last stages he may not have wanted to jeopardize his own position with Trump for the sake of something Trump was going to do anyway.
posted by crocomancer at 12:48 PM on May 18, 2017 [13 favorites]

So Rosenstein knew he was being used as a pretext and didn't care, but this also means we have further proof (you know, besides the President's own admission) that every word out of the White House after Comey was fired was an absolute lie.
posted by zachlipton at 12:50 PM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

Flynn as the pointman for the KGB makes the most sense, combine that with Trump's slide into dementia and people with declining mental faculties leaning on one specific person, having difficulty trusting new people, that's all you need to explain Trump's apparent man crush on Flynn. Flynn was most of the campaign for 9 months, and running Trump's political affairs longer than that before he became the nominee. Trump probably sees him as a security blankie, or whatever a security blankie is called in Russian.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:51 PM on May 18, 2017 [10 favorites]

Yeah, I suspect Rosenstein knew Comey was gone one way or the other, possibly even gave Comey the heads up, saying "I'm going to 'help fire you' because you're already toast, but I'll do the right thing before they can fire me too."
posted by Rumple at 12:51 PM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

Mueller visited Rosenstein's office the day after the Comey firing. Whether that was not their first contact but a continuation of an earlier contact or Mueller was, like, the first person Rosenstein called after the axe came down on Comey, I don't know.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:52 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

The episode that predicted Trump's election in 2016 will be able to vote in the midterms.

Only if it registers Republican.
posted by phunniemee at 12:53 PM on May 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

.@SenJohnMcCain to me now: "Joe Lieberman has more experience than all of my Dem. colleagues combined. So screw them. And u can quote me."

This was in response to a question about Lieberman's lack of law enforcement experience.
posted by zachlipton at 12:55 PM on May 18, 2017 [10 favorites]

I'm not sure if I'm dreading or anticipating Trump's press conferences on this tour.
posted by MattWPBS at 12:56 PM on May 18, 2017

House member who represents Salem responds to Trump's "witch hunt" tweet.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:56 PM on May 18, 2017 [17 favorites]

Yeah, I suspect Rosenstein knew Comey was gone one way or the other, possibly even gave Comey the heads up, saying "I'm going to 'help fire you' because you're already toast, but I'll do the right thing before they can fire me too."

Rosenstein killed Dumbledore?
posted by Emily's Fist at 12:57 PM on May 18, 2017 [13 favorites]

@SenJohnMcCain: "Joe Lieberman is literally an undead wraith who has wandered the earth lo these many years."
posted by uncleozzy at 12:58 PM on May 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

The #1 reason Comey knew it was coming is that he is not an idiot. Knowing what he knew about Trump's efforts to derail the investigation and corrupt him, he had to know he was on his way out as soon as he confirmed the FBI investigation at the public House Intelligence Committee hearing on Mar 20. He had nothing to lose after that point, just evidence to keep gathering until the ax fell.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:58 PM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

Benjamin Wittes, close friend of James Comey who tweeted 'tick tick tick tick tick tick' before the NYT story dropped Tuesday, just tweeted it again fifteen minutes ago.
posted by DynamiteToast at 12:58 PM on May 18, 2017 [66 favorites]

I'm sorry, I'm confused, because there are two "he"s and two "memo"s. There's Comey and Rosenstein, and both of them wrote important memos. Are you saying that Rosenstein knew that Comey would be fired, a day before Rosenstein wrote his memo?
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 12:59 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Lieberman pushed for McCain to get a job in 2008 that McCain was underqualified for, so this is just McCain returning the favor.
posted by delfin at 12:59 PM on May 18, 2017 [11 favorites]

unnamed congressman #3:

- Ok, this congressman confirms it's the memo that Rosenstein wrote, not Comey's memo. That was my bad.
- Rosenstein didn't call it a criminal investigation during the briefing.
- Doesn't think Joe qualifies as a politician.

unnamed congressman #4:

- Public deserves a strong and open public oversight by congress in Russia's influence to our country. Doesn't think Mueller will distract from this.
- Mueller has integrity. "The appointment of Robert Mueller is a very very good one."
- congress shouldn't say "ok our job is done we don't have to investigate this"

Senator Corning (sp!):

- congress' investigation shouldn't interfere or impair Mueller's investigation
- worried all the subcommittees might screw Mueller's investigation. Rosenstein wants a single point of contact.
- Joe liberman: only person to get 100 votes in the senate which such a divided country. Well respected by all.
posted by INFJ at 1:00 PM on May 18, 2017

He followed that up 5 mins later by saying "no one has ever gained more followers from simply typing 'tick' repeatedly"
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 1:00 PM on May 18, 2017 [14 favorites]

Media Matters: Report: Congressional Trump/Russia Probe Looking Into Breitbart And Cambridge Analytica

"Breitbart, which was formerly headed by current White House chief strategist Stephen Bannon, is reportedly under investigation by the FBI for Russian bots allegedly pushing pro-Trump stories from the website. [...] Cambridge Analytica is primarily owned by major Trump donor Robert Mercer. [...] Bannon also reportedly had a financial stake in Cambridge Analytica, and Federal Election Commission reports have indicated that millions of dollars allegedly paid by a pro-Trump super PAC to the firm were mysteriously sent to a California address registered to Bannon."

Recall that Cambridge Analytica specializes in targeting political messaging to people based on their social media profiles. Not unrelated to what Russian bots and paid trolls appear to have done. And Cambridge Analytica worked for both the Trump and Brexit "Leave" campaigns, both connected to Wikileaks and very friendly with Russia.

Cites this Time Magazine Story: Inside Russia’s Social Media War on America

For many Americans, Russian hacking remains a story about the 2016 election. But there is another story taking shape. Marrying a hundred years of expertise in influence operations to the new world of social media, Russia may finally have gained the ability it long sought but never fully achieved in the Cold War: to alter the course of events in the U.S. by manipulating public opinion. The vast openness and anonymity of social media has cleared a dangerous new route for antidemocratic forces. "Using these technologies, it is possible to undermine democratic government, and it's becoming easier every day," says Rand Waltzman of the Rand Corp., who ran a major Pentagon research program to understand the propaganda threats posed by social media technology.

Reminder of who Cambridge Analytica are: The Data That Turned the World Upside Down
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:01 PM on May 18, 2017 [47 favorites]

For light relief if/when you need it, step over to the SNL Alternative White House timeline as described in the Hollywood Reporter, May 15th: SNL's Yuuuge Year and tweet showing the print cover.

I love this interview :) MCCARTHY: I don't do impressions. I don't have the ear for it. But when I read the script, I was like, "Oh, God, that is juicy, but I don't understand how we're going to physically make it work." To which the amazing special effects person at SNL was like, "Oh, yeah, that's not that big of a deal. That's gonna take me, like, 15 minutes." I was like, "Hey!"

posted by zarq at 1:01 PM on May 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

Same deal with the tie and well-done steaks. The guy supposedly has all the money in the world, and he can't get dress himself properly? He can spend $100 on a steak and have it prepared like something that you'd pull out of a Ponderosa buffet tray?

Yeah, but unlike a lot of Trump's peccadilloes, these don't hurt anybody. So Trump likes well-done steaks? Yeah, I think well-done steaks are awful, but most of my country inlaws have their steak well-done too (mostly because they're dairy farmers and they know that cows tread in poop all the time and when you work on a farm you get a little paranoid about cleanliness, and they extend that to their food). Well-done steak doesn't make Trump a bad person. Wearing his ties too long doesn't make him a bad person.

Hell, even the two scoops of ice cream thing doesn't have to make him a bad person. Maybe he just asked the waiters "hey, when you serve the pie, I'd like an extra scoop of ice cream, please." Well, he wouldn't say "please" because come on, it's fucking Donald Trump, but you get my point.

There are so, so many reasons to hate Donald Trump. We don't need to go out of our way to find frivolous ones that supposedly reveal the content of his character, because we all already know what kind of character he has.
posted by mightygodking at 1:02 PM on May 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

Benjamin Wittes, close friend of James Comey who tweeted 'tick tick tick tick tick tick' before the NYT story dropped Tuesday, just tweeted it again five minutes ago.

Yep, he started teasing some reveal this morning.

@benjaminwittes
By the twitching of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes.

tick tick tick tick tick tick tick
posted by chris24 at 1:02 PM on May 18, 2017 [21 favorites]

Perhaps liveblogging when you don't know the name of the speaker is not the best way to pass this info on.
posted by soelo at 1:03 PM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

@MsShannonFisher: "This was a counter-intelligence investigation. It is now a criminal investigation."~ Senator Lindsey Graham after meeting w/ DAG Rosenstein

My guess is that many Republican leaders don't actually believe there were any law-breaking crimes actually committed, just a lot of sleazy stuff of the sort that Ryan and McCarthy were laughing at. Their hope is that (a) the public portion of the investigation -- media, congressional committees, etc -- will quiet down in while Mueller works behind the scenes, and (b) Mueller will make a report much like Comey's on Clinton: lots to be chided, but no official laws broken. I think Yoo's comparison to Iran-Contra is also a good indicator of what they're shooting for: lots of mess, maybe even a few fall-guys like North, but basically something that can be recovered from, and which can be compacted into a single investigation whose effects wane after it's over.

Mind you, I think -- and certainly hope -- this is sheer folly. But while Trump et al. of course have no strategy, predictions, understanding of what's going on, theory of mind, object permanence, etc -- there are plenty of Republicans that do. And their strategy seem to be crystalizing around a compartmentalized, strictly criminal investigation, plus a quick clean-up on the Iran-Contra model. So we have to make sure that never happens.
posted by chortly at 1:06 PM on May 18, 2017 [11 favorites]

You can't expect him to keep track of both eyeglasses and a phone at the same time, silly.

And the biscuit:

For an extra level of security, the list of codes on the card includes codes that have no meaning, and therefore the president must memorize where on the list the correct code is located.

We might just get through this
posted by XMLicious at 1:06 PM on May 18, 2017 [16 favorites]

@SenJohnMcCain to me now: "Joe Lieberman has more experience than all of my Dem. colleagues combined. So screw them. And u can quote me."

John McCain will be a reviled and ridiculed historical footnote (presuming a future), and u can quote me.
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:06 PM on May 18, 2017 [30 favorites]

Senator Bloomingtol (sp!):

- Background of Rosenstein's memo and firing of Comey are some unanswered questions this congressman has.
- Everything is 'potential' and 'allegations' right now. Mueller will do a good job investigating everything and getting to the bottom of it all.
- "Bob Mueller is doing a criminal investigation" He's investigating possible "obstruction of justice"
- Has no comment about a specific individual for FBI Director. Out to be someone with the expertise of criminal justice and out to have no political connections or ties. Not ruling Liberman out though.
- This senator voted against Rosenstein (the only one of 7, no idea what the vote was for though) if he didn't appoint a special investigator.
posted by INFJ at 1:06 PM on May 18, 2017

.@SenJohnMcCain to me now: "Joe Lieberman has more experience than all of my Dem. colleagues combined. So screw them. And u can quote me."

Fun fact: John McCain has a detachable spine that he can remove when needed.
posted by sgranade at 1:07 PM on May 18, 2017 [16 favorites]

Joint press conference is starting.
posted by cmfletcher at 1:08 PM on May 18, 2017

Trump probably sees him as a security blankie, or whatever a security blankie is called in Russian.

A pencil?
posted by Behemoth at 1:09 PM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

Perhaps liveblogging when you don't know the name of the speaker is not the best way to pass this info on.

Sorry, they didn't speak their names. It was all "congressman! congressman! come speak at the podium!" and there is no overlay telling me who's speaking.

If you think that invalidates the information, then please disregard.
posted by INFJ at 1:09 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Marcy Wheeler: The Scope of the Special Counsel Appointment Is Totally Inadequate

Democracy Now: Could Narrow Scope of New Special Counsel Miss Wider Corruption in Trump White House?
posted by homunculus at 1:10 PM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

"For an extra level of security, the list of codes on the card includes codes that have no meaning, and therefore the president must memorize where on the list the correct code is located."

We might just get through this.

That's assuming he doesn't have a reminder taped to his tie and won't lend his tie to a Russian visitor.
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:13 PM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

Yglesias discusses why Lieberman is a horrible pick, points out that every FBI Director since Hoover has had experience in federal law enforcement, either in the FBI or as a US attorney.

Sorry, they didn't speak their names.

For future reference: C-SPAN usually puts names in the lower-third. They were doing so for this stakeout.
posted by zachlipton at 1:14 PM on May 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

Politico: Gowdy poised to replace Chaffetz as Oversight chief. God help us.
posted by zachlipton at 1:16 PM on May 18, 2017 [22 favorites]

Trump is holding a news conference right now?!?!?!

ETA: with the Colombian president.
posted by obliquity of the ecliptic at 1:17 PM on May 18, 2017

Gowdy poised to replace Chaffetz as Oversight chief

Out of the frying pan, into the Earth's molten core.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:18 PM on May 18, 2017 [30 favorites]

Trump is holding a news conference right now?!?!?!

No, it's a joint thing with the president of Colombia.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:18 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

PLEASE let this big thing drop in the middle of the press conference.
posted by angrycat at 1:19 PM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

Let us know if he brought the electoral map with him.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:20 PM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

Gowdy poised to replace Chaffetz as Oversight chief

Another worthless sack of shit to cover things up eh?
posted by Artw at 1:20 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Gowdy poised to replace Chaffetz as Oversight chief

Our only hope is that while sharpening his head one morning, Gowdy will accidentally nick off the part of his brain where he stores Benghazi.
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:20 PM on May 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

Apologies - I was confused when I saw the "breaking news" banner on WaPo.
posted by obliquity of the ecliptic at 1:20 PM on May 18, 2017

I'm still unclear on why he thinks the electoral college leans towards Democrats.

Directions get reversed when you look in a mirror?
posted by CyberSlug Labs at 1:20 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

The conference is here.
posted by prefpara at 1:21 PM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

As a child of the late 90's, I cannot tell you how much this feels like redux of times past. Impeachment! Special counsel! Republican rumors that Hillary killed some poor dude because he knew too much!

And now Joe! Fucking! Lieberman!
posted by joyceanmachine at 1:21 PM on May 18, 2017 [21 favorites]

Senator Warner:

- biggest take away for most members is that DAG will give Mueller wide leeway.
- As someone on the intel committee, doesn't want to comment if it's a criminal investigation or not.
- Doesn't want to say more about the timing or Rosenstein's memo.
- Congress' investigation has a different purpose and different standards than the DOJ.
- Has no information that Comey is precluded from an open testimony, would hope new FBI director wouldn't stop him from speaking to the committee. Doesn't see a reason why he won't testify, doesn't think anything has changed.
posted by INFJ at 1:22 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Trump at the press conference: "Believe me, there's no collusion. Russia is fine."

Welp, I'm convinced. Let's call the whole thing off!
posted by prefpara at 1:22 PM on May 18, 2017 [30 favorites]

"Believe me. There was no collusion. Russia is fine." [real!]
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:22 PM on May 18, 2017 [18 favorites]

Senator Schuemer:

- clear as ever the intelligence committee "has to continue it's work."
- Need for Comey to testify, soon, "is as great as ever."

(didn't take any of press' questions)
posted by INFJ at 1:23 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Tried to watch the press conference, literally cannot even listen to his voice now. Thanks to those who are strong enough to follow along.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:24 PM on May 18, 2017 [10 favorites]

tick tick tick tick tick tick tick

the suspense is terrible!
(i hope it will last)
posted by entropicamericana at 1:25 PM on May 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

Who is the English ringer (no way is this guy a journalist) asking the easiest questions in the world?
posted by Yowser at 1:26 PM on May 18, 2017

A reporter asked Prez Santos what he thinks of the wall (basically). Santos: DODGE DUCK WE HAVE TO ALL WORK TOGETHER WEAVE DODGE IT'S ALL ABOUT COLLABORATION.
posted by prefpara at 1:26 PM on May 18, 2017

Thank God he's got his priorities right, Russia is fine.
posted by MattWPBS at 1:26 PM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

Trump's little "I can only speak for myself" about collusion there is potentially significant, but he's basically just giving the same speech he gave the network anchors about how it's a very divided country and "there was no collusion. Russia is fine."

He also slipped up for a second and said "There has been no collusion between myself and my campaign." Which, yeah.

He always has this tick though when he's asked about Russia, he says something like "or someone else." It's really disturbing.
posted by zachlipton at 1:27 PM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

Trump at the press conference: "Believe me, there's no collusion. Russia is fine."

Isn't "believe me" a well-known tell that Trump is lying?
posted by Gelatin at 1:27 PM on May 18, 2017 [14 favorites]

Trump speaking is a good tell that he's lying.
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:29 PM on May 18, 2017 [66 favorites]

Q: Did you urge Comey to close or back down on the investigation into Flynn?
A: "No. No. Next question."
posted by zachlipton at 1:29 PM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

"Russia is fine."

it's been 8 minutes, where the hell is the "this is fine" meme mash-up
posted by entropicamericana at 1:29 PM on May 18, 2017 [11 favorites]

"Believe me" is how a New Yorker knows someone is lying.
posted by graymouser at 1:29 PM on May 18, 2017 [18 favorites]

Trump just "No. No. Next question."-ed a direct question about whether he asked Comey to stand down. Next question was about impeachment. He thinks it's "totally ridiculous. Everybody thinks so." He's back to Comey being "very unpopular with most people." I can't no more.
posted by prefpara at 1:29 PM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

RE: Press conference: He seems so angry. His BS throwaways "everyone knows this" etc just seem like he's going through the motions. Seems very unhappy. This makes me happy.
posted by avalonian at 1:29 PM on May 18, 2017 [17 favorites]

Benjamin Wittes‏ @benjaminwittes
tick tick tick tick tick tick tick

Nick Riccardi‏ @NickRiccardi
Can we have a @lawfareblog post on what legally constitutes torture?

Benjamin Wittes‏ @benjaminwittes
There is a specific provision of the Geneva Conventions on this: Common Article 3 has been interpreted to prohibit this sort of tweeting.

I have to admit I find this amusing and a decent distraction from wondering what's about to blow up. (I helped with the napping yesterday but cannot today, I have a meetup after work!)
posted by Sequence at 1:30 PM on May 18, 2017 [20 favorites]

Oh man, now Trump is going back to the first Comey firing explanation, and going out of his way to diss Comey again.
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:30 PM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

Trump has never been that quick to answer a question. "Did you ask Comey to stop investigating Flynn?" (paraphrased) Answer:"No. Next question"
posted by Yowser at 1:30 PM on May 18, 2017

He's in full Markov now
posted by theodolite at 1:31 PM on May 18, 2017 [12 favorites]

He fired Comey because he misstated what happened with Huma Abedin and the e-mails? What??
posted by all about eevee at 1:32 PM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

Huh? He was talking about firing Comey and now he's talking about how Obamacare is failing and he's going to have the biggest tax cut in history. It's just gibberish.
posted by zachlipton at 1:32 PM on May 18, 2017 [14 favorites]

Now he's going off about how obamacare is dead, it's gone, it's a fallacy, we have no healthcare, really hammering it flat
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:32 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

"There was no collusion" I literally have forgotten what the question was, he keeps rambling, but I don't think it was about Russia?
posted by Yowser at 1:33 PM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

So....we're just gonna let him dodge questions, and then riff. Riff full campaign style, repeat himself fully demential, and this is....ok. It feels more normal than the last week at least.
posted by andruwjones26 at 1:33 PM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

He just said a sentence that took us all on quite a journey. Stops along the way: there was no collusion, even his enemies agree, tax cuts will be historic... it just went on for a million years.
posted by prefpara at 1:33 PM on May 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

"We want to get back on the track that we're on, because the track that we're on is record-setting, and we want to break very positive records." [real]
posted by vathek at 1:33 PM on May 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

Trump has never been that quick to answer a question

And another sideswipe at Rosenstein.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 1:33 PM on May 18, 2017

"what do you think of Pres Trump's America First policy?"
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 1:34 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Santos totally does not want to be there

I don't even want to be here, and I'm 300 miles away!
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:35 PM on May 18, 2017 [12 favorites]

I'm still unclear on why he thinks the electoral college leans towards Democrats.

I forget the exact header for this explanation but it's filed somewhere between "Christians Are The Most Persecuted Religion" and "Well, Actually, It's Really Hard to Be A Straight White Man in America."
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:35 PM on May 18, 2017 [36 favorites]

I was trying to figure out why Peter Baker would ask a question that was basically "do you think you've broken the law or should be impeached?" It was a really really odd question. Who was that guy if it wasn't Peter Baker?
posted by zachlipton at 1:36 PM on May 18, 2017

This is a really important LA Times article: Health insurers and state officials say Trump is undermining Obamacare, pushing up rates. Read the whole thing, but especially this:

At one recent meeting, Seema Verma, whom Trump picked to oversee the federal Medicare and Medicaid programs, stunned insurance industry officials by suggesting a bargain: The administration would fund the CSRs if insurers supported the House Republican bill to repeal the Affordable Care Act.

“It made no sense,” said one official at the meeting.

Speaking of witch-hunts, MAGA is Spanish for female wizard which could be interpreted as "witch." (Yes, bruja is the common term.)
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:36 PM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

"Believe me" is how a New Yorker knows someone is lying.

Exactly. [Jon] Stewart said Trump lies on purpose. "You wanna know how I know how? Because he constantly says the phrase 'believe me,'" Stewart said. "Nobody says 'believe me' unless they are lying."

posted by zarq at 1:36 PM on May 18, 2017 [11 favorites]

And we're done.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 1:36 PM on May 18, 2017

Who was that guy if it wasn't Peter Baker?

I don't know, but it sounded like the question actually came from those weird bushes on the side.
posted by Behemoth at 1:37 PM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

Who was that guy if it wasn't Peter Baker?

Ah, it was Scott Thuman of Sinclair, of course. It was a weird question.
posted by zachlipton at 1:38 PM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

I'm no longer sure that Trump does coke, but he sure as fuck reminds me of cocaine. Not in any good way. In the "I think I'm brilliant so I'm going to keep on rambling" way. /shudder
posted by angrycat at 1:40 PM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

Trump said that Rosenstein wrote his memo condemning Comey because of Comey's recent inaccurate testimony on Huma Abedin, which is remarkable because the letter did not mention that testimony. Rod Rosenstein is modern literature's greatest exponent of subtlety in subtext
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:41 PM on May 18, 2017 [14 favorites]

OK, the tick tick tick guy has me annoyed now. Either post news or don't.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:41 PM on May 18, 2017 [16 favorites]

I've been thinking a lot about the issues related to the news that Ryan and McCarthy thought it was just hilarious that Trump (and Rohrabacher) were compromised by Russia) and that McConnell knew Russia had hacked the DNC to help Trump but told Obama he would publicly accuse the president of trying to interfere in the election if his administration published that conclusion...

I think that we really are starting to get into "constitutional crisis" territory. The constitution doesn't tell us what to do when the executive and legislative branches are both corrupted. It's not clear to me that a special prosecutor is going to be enough to fix everything, here... These guys still have all the power.

But we can't... We can't just throw them out entirely, without destroying our whole system of government. But their staying also imperils our system of government. I'm trying to work out, who absolutely needs to go along with Trump (if he gets removed from office) before I can feel remotely safe again? How radical does the surgery have to be, here? We have to remove the tumor, but how much of the tissue around it do we take, to make sure some tiny little part of it doesn't grow back? How much CAN we take without killing the patient (our government)?

Clearly Trump must go. We must find 22 Republicans in the House who have still some shred of conscience, and 19 Republicans in the senate. Or if there are not that many with a conscience, they must be made to see that it is in their own best interests to impeach, at least.

Sessions MUST go. He was part of the Trump campaign from the beginning, and helped organize all this. He was friends with Manafort, and must've known about Manafort's dirty dealings. He knew Flynn was under investigation before he took office. He must've known Flynn lied to the FBI. And Sessions himself lied under oath about his own interactions with Russia. He recused himself and then violated his recusal. Sessions MUST GO.

DeVos should go. Her brother Eric Prince set up a back channel meeting in Sechalles between the Trump transition team and Putin's people. Also, her family business "Spectrum Health" ran a server that was one of only two pinging the mysterious Trump server found right before the election. The other was Russia's Alfa Bank.

Wilbur Ross should go. His ties to Russians involved in money laundering through Bank of Cyprus (including the "King of Fertilizer" Dmitry Ryobolovlev, who bought a Trump property for $50 million more than Trump paid for it) compromise his judgement. His ties to Donald Trump compromise him.

Bannon absolutely has to go. I will be shocked if it turns out that Breitbart and Cambridge Analytica had absolutely nothing to do with the Russian Propaganda campaign.

But I don't see how we can get rid of everyone who was complicit in this. The rot goes too deep. It compromises the very foundations of our democracy. McConnell, Ryan, and McCarthy I guess will have to keep their seats even if Trump is impeached? They should absolutely lose their leadership roles, though I don't know if they will. Pence would almost certainly take office... but he should have zero political capital to get anything done. He is part of a disgraced administration. These guys are complicit, make no mistake. But they may be necessary for the continued existence of the US government under the constitution?

We are going to need a Truth and Reconciliation Commission by the time this is all over.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:43 PM on May 18, 2017 [80 favorites]

I just listened to a podcast from On the Media, Brooke Gladstone talking about her new book. One thing she said that struck me was we're used to paying for entertainment but not for news. If people want well-run news, they have to be willing to pay for it. I'm so fed up with NPR, I don't give anymore. But I just subscribed to the Washington Post. No more incognito mode for me!
posted by rikschell at 1:43 PM on May 18, 2017 [14 favorites]

MAGA is Spanish for female wizard

"Maga" is also Yoruba slang for "fool". So calling Trumpists "MAGAs" seems appropriate.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 1:43 PM on May 18, 2017 [16 favorites]

Woah what? House May Be Forced to Vote Again on GOP's Obamacare Repeal Bill (by Billy House, who has the best name of any House reporter).

House Speaker Paul Ryan hasn’t yet sent the bill to the Senate because there’s a chance that parts of it may need to be redone, depending on how the Congressional Budget Office estimates its effects. House leaders want to make sure the bill conforms with Senate rules for reconciliation, a mechanism that allows Senate Republicans to pass the bill with a simple majority.

Republicans had rushed to vote on the health bill so the Senate could get a quick start on it, even before the CBO had finished analyzing a series of last-minute changes. The CBO is expected to release an updated estimate next week.

posted by zachlipton at 1:43 PM on May 18, 2017 [43 favorites]

“Trump feels really, really, really, bad about firing him, and he genuinely thinks if the investigation is over Flynn can come back,”

lie bot, what is the saddest thing
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:43 PM on May 18, 2017 [46 favorites]

Yeah, I have to drive home but I have a couple stops to make on the way. If anything starts happening, stall for time.
posted by yhbc at 1:44 PM on May 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

Bloomberg says the House has neglected to send their Trumpcare bill to the Senate, and may be forced to re-vote next week when the new CBO score comes out, if that score shows that the bill as passed is not eligible for reconciliation.

.....just....I....they....I should be happy about this, but it's so dumb!
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:44 PM on May 18, 2017 [48 favorites]

Ryan wanted to have a fun party at the White House so much he passed a fake bill :(
posted by theodolite at 1:47 PM on May 18, 2017 [24 favorites]

MAGA is Spanish for female wizard

"Maga" is also Yoruba slang for "fool". So calling Trumpists "MAGAs" seems appropriate.

Facebook detects it as Hungarian and translates it to "you".
posted by srboisvert at 1:47 PM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

Revote? Why does it matter if the Senate is starting from scratch on their own bill?
posted by notyou at 1:48 PM on May 18, 2017

But we can't... We can't just throw them out entirely, without destroying our whole system of government. But their staying also imperils our system of government.

It's time to start asking the difficult questions, such as whether Americans are actually civilized enough to be capable of self-government.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:48 PM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

Some skepticism here that they'd really have to vote again, given the numbers involved, but the fact that they haven't formally sent the bill over to the Senate implies that they're at least concerned about the possibility.

The CBO score is going to drop next week and it's going to be awful. Still, I'm more concerned about officials extorting insurance companies to support the bill. Shouldn't that be illegal somehow?
posted by zachlipton at 1:50 PM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

.....just....I....they....I should be happy about this, but it's so dumb!

Is it good news or bad news to find out that the guy who just hijacked your plane to Russia doesn't know how to fly it?
posted by msalt at 1:50 PM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

Revote? Why does it matter if the Senate is starting from scratch on their own bill?

Because they have to do the stupidest thing possible all the time or they're no longer Republicans.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:50 PM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

There is now video of Erdogan getting out of his car to watch his goons beat up protesters at the Ambassador's residence.

I was about to finally get lunch, but sort of just lost my appetite there.
posted by zachlipton at 1:53 PM on May 18, 2017 [59 favorites]

the Democrats having lost an election that they should have easily won because of the Electoral College being slanted so much in their way

This keeps baffling me. He lost the popular vote by 3,000,000 votes and won the Electoral College by 74. What definition of "slanted toward the Democrats" possibly includes "You win the popular vote by over 2 points and still decisively lose the Electoral College"?
posted by 0xFCAF at 1:53 PM on May 18, 2017 [35 favorites]

I would be extremely surprised if Donald Trump would be capable of actually explaining how the Electoral College works even if you gave him all the time he wanted.
posted by Sequence at 1:56 PM on May 18, 2017 [10 favorites]

I think I can explain: he lies constantly in order to seem like a big boy
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:57 PM on May 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

There is now video of Erdogan getting out of his car to watch his goons beat up protesters at the Ambassador's residence.

Holy SHIT. He speaks to a guard, gets in car. Guard rushes down to protestors. Violence immediately begins. Violence ends, same guard (now disheveled) returns, Erdogan gets out of the car, nods as same guard speaks to him. It sure as hell looks like he ordered it.
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:58 PM on May 18, 2017 [80 favorites]

I am so confused. What is the good/bad thing about Rosenstein knowing about Comey's firing ahead of time? Can someone explain?
posted by emjaybee at 2:00 PM on May 18, 2017

That Erdogan video is like a mumblecore remake of the Godfather
posted by theodolite at 2:01 PM on May 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

The Erdogan situation is just bonkers. And yet totally makes sense. The state dept response used the term "strongest possible condemnation" which in this case seems like all they will do (say something, not do anything).

Jonathan Swan at Axios is reporting that, although there is no evidence proving it, and he himself hasn't commented, Egg McMuffin is believed to be responsible for the secret recordings of GOP leadership that WaPo used to catch McCarthy and Ryan lying about the "joking" reference to the Russians buying Trump and Dana Rorbacher.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 2:01 PM on May 18, 2017 [17 favorites]

Yglesias discusses why Lieberman is a horrible pick...

I think Democrats should focus on how Lieberman is too old for the job (at 75), and keep repeating that over and over. Ideally with the phrase "he's over 70!"

Mostly because Lieberman is only 5 years old than Trump, who's 70, and it will drive him crazy.
posted by msalt at 2:01 PM on May 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

The original story was that Rosenstein wrote a memo to Sessions evaluating Comey's handling of high-profile investigations (especially Clinton) that Sessions and then Trump took as a recommendation to fire him. Rosenstein now says he wrote that memo (which did not actually say to fire Comey) knowing that Trump had already decided to pull that trigger and was looking for a post hoc justification.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:03 PM on May 18, 2017 [10 favorites]

Maybe not w/ the ageism. There are other ways to drive Trump crazy, like investigating, reviewing, and assessing his actions. He hates that shit.
posted by avalonian at 2:04 PM on May 18, 2017 [22 favorites]

Revote? Why does it matter if the Senate is starting from scratch on their own bill?

One thing is, the bill barely passed last time even without the CBO numbers, and Trump's leverage over Republican Congresspeople has dropped considerably in the meantime. A lot of them are actively looking for ways to distance themselves from him since they don't think he'll last.

So I don't think it's all certain that the exact same bill would pass again.
posted by msalt at 2:05 PM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

Here's what keeps cracking me up:

You know what happened the weekend before the Comey firing?

Pepe the Frog's (original, pre-meme) creator, Matt Furie, killed him and published a story about his funeral.

I currently have neither the time nor the stomach to wade into the chans to see how all the little shitlord neo-Kek cultists are dealing, but wow. Just wow.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 2:05 PM on May 18, 2017 [13 favorites]

What is the good/bad thing about Rosenstein knowing about Comey's firing ahead of time?

The White House initially lied (repeatedly) saying that Rosenstein demanded Comey's firing and the President decided to allow it. Shortly after the President went on NBC News and said he was going to fire Comey regardless. It's very clear that Rosenstein only made the memo because he was asked to describe a rationale for a decision Trump had already made.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:06 PM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

Maybe not w/ the ageism.

I don't think it's ageism to suggest that a 75-year-old is not a good choice for a 10-year term at a highly demanding job. More like realism.
posted by msalt at 2:06 PM on May 18, 2017 [37 favorites]

> I think Democrats should focus on how Lieberman is too old for the job (at 75), and keep repeating that over and over. Ideally with the phrase "he's over 70!"

Christ, no. It isn't Lieberman's (or Trump's) age that makes them unfit for the Presidency / to head the FBI, it's that they're awful human beings. Just because the FBI appointment typically lasts for 10 years doesn't mean Lieberman would have to serve that long, and he could immediately undercut this attack by saying he'll just stay on for a year or two. Then Trump's troll job is even more effective, Democrats have exposed themselves as ageist (or at least willing to use ageist arguments for political theater) and Lieberman still becomes FBI director.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:06 PM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

I currently have neither the time nor the stomach to wade into the chans to see how all the little shitlord neo-Kek cultists are dealing, but wow. Just wow.

Presumably, the brighter ones have all learned a valuable lesson about trickster gods and the petitioning thereof.
posted by a power-tie-wearing she-capitalist at 2:07 PM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

Rick Wilson is pulling no punches and I love it.

1/ Some Republicans are boo-hooing about the special prosecutor. You know what would have prevented this? I'll tell you.

2/ Not trying to turn the House Intel hearings into a "but muh leaks" clown show. Not having the WH conspire with Nunes.

3/Not slow-rolling the House and Senate investigations and hoping it will all go away. Not tweeting and giving incriminating interviews.

4/Not trying to suborn the FBI director. Not having RUS officials in the Oval Office. Not posing for RUS propaganda photos.

5/Not hiring a package of people in business with RUS oligarchs. Not screeching praise for the GRU asset Wikileaks.

6/Not engaging in every flavor of whataboutism. Not lying constantly from the press room podium.

7/ You bought this bad pony. You ride it.

posted by corb at 2:08 PM on May 18, 2017 [146 favorites]

Meaning of "maga" in various languages
posted by XMLicious at 2:08 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

I am experiencing a strong feeling of dislike of a the "tick tick tick" guy right now.
posted by Jalliah at 2:13 PM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

I always thought MAGA was "Merciful Allah, God Almighty".
posted by chrchr at 2:15 PM on May 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

so, when are the next leaks/bombshells scheduled for?
posted by and they trembled before her fury at 2:18 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

> I am experiencing a strong feeling of dislike of a the "tick tick tick" guy right now.

It's like the Twitter version of Rachel and the Trump tax returns.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:18 PM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

so, when are the next leaks/bombshells scheduled for?

The seem to drop around 6PM east coast time these days.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 2:19 PM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

Im gonna have a nap.
posted by Jalliah at 2:21 PM on May 18, 2017 [29 favorites]

Insofar as the deep state exists and has a clubhouse, that clubhouse is Lawfare. And insofar as that clubhouse is run by a guy sitting in the corner muttering conspiratorially, that's Ben Wittes (the tick tick tick guy).
posted by zachlipton at 2:21 PM on May 18, 2017 [10 favorites]

They didn't decide the presidential election directly - they didn't say, "W wins." They ruled that different Florida counties using different vote counting standards was an Equal Protection clause violation. It's obvious what was driving the decision, but there was an underlying constitutional rationale.

Oh, I agree, but SCOTUS is the ultimate decider of what their own Constitutional powers are, and they have let courts overturn elections before. For example, a federal court overturned a Democratic victory in Pennsylavania due to widespread fraud.

I believe all this tsk-tsking about the courts not being able to overturn elections is defeatist and I hope the Democrats are gearing up for a legal battle.
posted by Mental Wimp at 2:24 PM on May 18, 2017 [12 favorites]

Chaffetz is officially Noping Out:

As you know, after careful consideration and long discussion with my wife, Julie, we agree the time has come for us to move on from this part of our life. This week I sent a letter to Governor Herbert indicating my intention to resign from Congress effective June 30, 2017.

My life has undergone some big changes over the last 18 months. Those changes have been good. But as I celebrated my 50th birthday in March, the reality of spending more than 1,500 nights away from my family over eight years hit me harder than it had before.
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:28 PM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

The problem here is that I'm not sure we can recover the government without a massive purge at this point. The rot goes **VERY** deep.

Here's a partial list:

Trump, of course.
His entire team, literally everyone who took a cabinet post with him is compromised
Ryan, McCarthy, and every single other Congressperson who was present when McCarthy said Trump was being paid by the Russians, or who knew of the comments yet said nothing.
Gorsuch.

There's doubtless many more who need to go, we need a real, hardcore, investigation to see just how deep the Russian tentacles have penetrated and to oust every single person who is compromised.

And we're not going to get even the partial list I just gave. That's people we now know for sure are compromised and/or kept a conspiracy of silence about others who were compromised.

But we aren't going to get that. Maybe, possibly, if we're extremely lucky, the DOJ investigation headed up by Mueller will uncover enough dirt that Trump resigns and a few months later President Pence ousts a few of Trump's cabinet picks.

And I'm doubtful we'll even get that.

We're going to enter 2018 with a government fatally compromised by foreign powers, and motivated by sheer racism and partisanship to break our elections.

Worse, we've got the current majority party in absolute denial that there is any problem of any sort. And their voting base is echoing that sentiment.

The American people are fully capable of self governance, we voted to elect Clinton you may recall, but we're not being permitted self governance by an unholy coalition of the Republican Party, the KKK, and the KGB.

I'm not sure the US government as it is currently constituted is capable of surviving. I think we can, I hope we can, but I'm doubtful.

We'l see as 2018 gets closer and as the investigations either proceed or are quashed.

One thing is sure: if we win in 2018 and again in 2020 it is long past time to outlaw gerrymandering for both state and federal elections, double (at minimum) the size of the House, and reapportion Representatives so the EC and the House aren't so horribly tilted towards the Republican Party.

If we win in 2018 and 2020 but the Democrats don't make drastic changes then the country is not going to last much longer.
posted by sotonohito at 2:29 PM on May 18, 2017 [15 favorites]

so, when are the next leaks/bombshells scheduled for?

Per the Reagan Battalion, which has had ties to every major Republican-side leak, next 48 hours, I think, so probably tomorrow night?
posted by corb at 2:30 PM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

>I don't think it's ageism to suggest that a 75-year-old is not a good choice for a 10-year term at a highly demanding job. More like realism.

Ok I'll buy that, but using it to screw w/ a 70 y/o is definitely using prevailing ageist views to put him down.

edit: tone
posted by avalonian at 2:31 PM on May 18, 2017

The White House initially lied (repeatedly) saying that Rosenstein demanded Comey's firing and the President decided to allow it. Shortly after the President went on NBC News and said he was going to fire Comey regardless. It's very clear that Rosenstein only made the memo because he was asked to describe a rationale for a decision Trump had already made.

Just like Rudy was brought in to find a way to do the Muslim ban and make it look legal.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:32 PM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

Yglesias discusses why Lieberman is a horrible pick, points out that every FBI Director since Hoover has had experience in federal law enforcement, either in the FBI or as a US attorney.

Well, until this year, every American president since Washington had prior military or political experience. We're going to set some very hard-to-break records for the sheer number of people in high positions who have very little idea what they are doing.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 2:36 PM on May 18, 2017 [11 favorites]

Ryan, McCarthy, and every single other Congressperson who was present when McCarthy said Trump was being paid by the Russians, or who knew of the comments yet said nothing.

And Devin frickin' Nunes. And Dana Rohrabacher.

And ICE? And CPB?

Yeah, I dunno. I feel like we got invaded and we didn't even notice. Somehow the internet left this wide open undefended path to Washington DC, and Russia marched in and took the capital before we even knew what was happening. Most people still don't realize. It's terrifying. The only ones who had a clue were the intelligence community and they waited until too late to warn us. Not that we were listening. (Still thinking of Morell's op ed.)

And now they've (Russia/Republicans/neoKKK) got control of all the levers of government, including the ones that control elections, and they've got half the country brainwashed. Because they control a huge propaganda operation. (Not just the bots and trolls -- I'm counting Fox News.)

We have to resist. I mean as patriotic people we have to. We can't just surrender without any kind of fight, and we are winning some victories here. But boy we are sure starting from a disadvantage. We're fighting to re-take territory which we should have been fighting to defend. It's crazy. What are we going to do?
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:38 PM on May 18, 2017 [38 favorites]

Unless all the skirt-wearers of Fox News live on a boat, their skirts will be lowered to half-STAFF. Yes, this is a pet peeve of mine.
posted by xyzzy at 9:07 AM on May 18 [18 favorites +] [!]

Definition of mast
1
: a long pole or spar rising from the keel or deck of a ship and supporting the yards, booms, and rigging
2
: a slender vertical or nearly vertical structure (such as an upright post in various cranes)
3
: a disciplinary proceeding at which the commanding officer of a naval unit hears and disposes of cases against enlisted men —called also captain's mast
posted by Mental Wimp at 2:42 PM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

It's like the Twitter version of Rachel and the Trump tax returns.

Except that Wittes is 1 / 1 (and a very big one at that) so far, so I'm ready to give him latitude for the moment. The Comey Valentine drop was pretty well timed to take the wheels off Trump's partywagon.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:42 PM on May 18, 2017

Yeah, I dunno. I feel like we got invaded and we didn't even notice. Somehow the internet left this wide open undefended path to Washington DC, and Russia marched in and took the capital before we even noticed. It's terrifying. The only ones who had a clue what was happening were the intelligence community and they waited until too late to warn us. Not that we were listening.

And now they've got control of all the levers of government, including the ones that control elections, and they've got half the country brainwashed. Because they control a huge propaganda operation. (Not just the bots and trolls -- I'm counting Fox News.)

We have to resist. I mean as patriotic people we have to. We can't just surrender without any kind of fight, and we are winning some victories here. But boy we are sure starting from a disadvantage. We're fighting to re-take territory which we should have been fighting to defend. It's crazy. What are we going to do?
posted by OnceUponATime

The part that really sucks about all of this is that the GOP is getting what they want thanks to a stolen election. Stolen with foreign help. That's what hurts the most about seeing what they're doing (side note, please be sure to comment on the National Monument "review" for all the good comments may do...) The Senate Dems owe it to America to bring everything to a crawl.
posted by azpenguin at 2:43 PM on May 18, 2017 [15 favorites]

Trump said, according to Muir, that the Russia probe is “a pure excuse for the Democrats having lost an election that they should have easily won.”

I'm really having a hard time parsing this. Is Trump saying that:

(a) he was a shitty candidate
(b) Hillary was the better choice
(c) The Russian interference threw the election
(d) The Democratic campaign made strategic and tactical mistakes

I just don't know.
posted by nubs at 2:44 PM on May 18, 2017 [17 favorites]

Comey may be a fucking grandstanding asshole who threw the election to Trump, but as somebody whose profession is to be the most prepared person in the room, I have to admire this level of commitment and follow-through and FUCK YOU I'M A CAREER BEAUROCRAT:

Before going to the dinner, Comey practiced Trump’s likely questions and his answers with a small group of his most trusted confidants, the associates said, in part to ensure he did not give Trump any ammunition to use against him later.

The director did not take notes during the dinner with the president, but there were times, one associate recalled, when after meeting with Trump, Comey started writing notes as soon as he got into a car, “to make sure he could accurately record what was said.’’

And this being timed so that I read it with the "Trump denies telling Comey to back off investigation" on the front page of the WaPo?

*kisses fingers*
posted by joyceanmachine at 2:46 PM on May 18, 2017 [70 favorites]

Looks like we now know what Trump leaked:

@krisvancleave CBS News has learned the laptop bomb that may evade airport scanners was built and tested by ISIS at Mosul University
posted by joedan at 2:47 PM on May 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

Really hope whoever they had as a source for that laptop bomb intel got the hell out of Dodge before CBS put that out.

Granted, the real fault here lies with the White House and that's who I'd blame if anything happened to that source regardless, but still. I genuinely appreciated the fact that WaPo, CNN, etc. opted not to go into details on this.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:54 PM on May 18, 2017 [10 favorites]

“Trump feels really, really, really, bad about firing him, and he genuinely thinks if the investigation is over Flynn can come back,”

Considering that firing people is like the man's whole schtick...I just don't know how to feel anymore.
posted by nubs at 2:55 PM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

Yeah, I dunno. I feel like we got invaded and we didn't even notice....And now they've got control of all the levers of government, including the ones that control elections, and they've got half the country brainwashed. Because they control a huge propaganda operation... We have to resist. I mean as patriotic people we have to. We can't just surrender without any kind of fight, and we are winning some victories here. But boy we are sure starting from a disadvantage. We're fighting to re-take territory which we should have been fighting to defend.;;
posted by OnceUponATime

At least now we know how the white power people feel.

No, I'm not talking equivalence (don't even THINK that), but know thy enemy becomes easier when you find yourself reacting like them - even when it's about diametrically opposed things.
posted by Devonian at 2:55 PM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

Considering that firing people is like the man's whole schtick...I just don't know how to feel anymore.

Yet he can't bring himself to fire Sebastian Gorka. Or Bannon.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:55 PM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

Yet he can't bring himself to fire Sebastian Gorka. Or Bannon.

And he feels bad about firing Flynn! So, yeah, like what was that whole Apprentice thing?
posted by nubs at 2:57 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

New Republic: Why Donald Trump Can’t Quit Michael Flynn

The relationship between Trump and Flynn is murky. Perhaps Trump sticks with him for some complex emotional reason: because Flynn was an early supporter, they share similar foreign policy views, Trump loves men in uniform, or because Flynn was fired by Obama, whom Trump hates. More broadly, Trump has a defiant streak and might be loyal to Flynn out of sheer obstinacy, a rejection of interference from figures like Obama, Yates, and Comey.

But we must also consider Trump’s depraved character, and the fact that Flynn is under investigation for something that could easily entangle Trump’s administration, perhaps even bring down the president himself. Given this, perhaps there’s a more sinister reason for Trump’s fierce loyalty. When he tells Flynn to “stay strong,” the message might simply be: “No snitching.”

posted by murphy slaw at 2:58 PM on May 18, 2017 [14 favorites]

Chaffetz is officially Noping Out:

>My life has undergone some big changes over the last 18 months. Those changes have been good. But as I celebrated my 50th birthday in March, the reality of spending more than 1,500 nights away from my family over eight years hit me harder than it had before.

Sooo... he's against deportations that separate parents from their children, then?
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:59 PM on May 18, 2017 [42 favorites]

I believe all this tsk-tsking about the courts not being able to overturn elections is defeatist and I hope the Democrats are gearing up for a legal battle.

Thanks for this, Dad. I agree and I think we do need to keep in mind that none of this is precedented and we should keep OUR crazy pants options on hand.
posted by Bacon Bit at 2:59 PM on May 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

Yeah, I dunno. I feel like we got invaded and we didn't even notice. Somehow the internet left this wide open undefended path to Washington DC

Say what you like about us Brits, at least we made sure we burnt down the White House so you chaps knew we'd stopped by again just to say 'hi'.
posted by garius at 3:00 PM on May 18, 2017 [20 favorites]

> Revote? Why does it matter if the Senate is starting from scratch on their own bill?

Note an expert, so don't take my word for it, but I believe bills dealing with money (budgets etc.) have to originate in the lower house. So if the AHCA bill is to be considered under reconciliation rules in the Senate, it has to be first passed by Congress and sent over to the Senate for purely procedural reasons.

The Senate can rip out the contents and insert their own completely re-written text, but it needs a vehicle that started in Congress and is eligible for consideration under reconciliation rules.

Frankly, if true, this looks like the stupidest possible outcome from not waiting for a CBO score before voting on it - if the CBO rules that it isn't eligible, Republicans will have been on the record for a bill can't even get to the Senate.

(I think. Like I said, not an expert. Believe me.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 3:00 PM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

we should keep OUR crazy pants options on hand

there's no rule stating that five dogs in a trenchcoat can't be a senator!
posted by murphy slaw at 3:00 PM on May 18, 2017 [17 favorites]

House Russia investigators get access to Treasury data

iono, maybe they'll nail him on financial crimes. i'd settle for anything that gets the fuckers out of office.
posted by and they trembled before her fury at 3:01 PM on May 18, 2017 [15 favorites]

The Apprentice is an important part of the Trump Mythos, which the media tends to underrate because they're New Yorkers who never watched the show and were already familiar with Trump as a eccentric tabloid rich guy. But all those red hat guys who say they're confident about Trump because he's a great businessman: they're thinking of the character he played on TV for ten years.
posted by theodolite at 3:03 PM on May 18, 2017 [20 favorites]

well, wtf: trump team planning possible retaliation for classified leak allegations - white house officials concoct “ludicrous” revenge plan targeting former Obama administration
posted by and they trembled before her fury at 3:03 PM on May 18, 2017 [27 favorites]

Huh. Developing situation, but apparently T_D is/is talking about leaving Reddit for Voat.

Re "tick tick tick"
I think, so probably tomorrow night?

Good, because I really need to cut the grass.

I'm off to a 4 hour training and won't be online until it ends tonight. I'm expecting the new ridiculous thing to happen as soon as head out.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 3:03 PM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

Drove home from work, did not come back to new scandal. Is everything okay?

Too few naps were taken.
posted by Token Meme at 3:04 PM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

House Republicans are sad and scared of MeFi's Adopted Own.

Evidence or not, leadership sources are privately worried that McMullin had a tape on while he sat silently through all of their confidential meetings. They're concerned about what leaks could come next.

posted by corb at 3:07 PM on May 18, 2017 [86 favorites]

Considering that firing people is like the man's whole schtick...I just don't know how to feel anymore.

This is like the Trump Exception: the man behaves in the most awful, shitty, malicious, disrespectful, hostile, narcissistic, bastardly way to like every single person/ally/country everywhere, and the better the person/place, the worse he is to them . . .

except for Mike Flynn and Vladimir Putin and Russia, the least deserving of approbation and loyalty.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:07 PM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

The administration’s approach in this instance is a “bag of crazy cats,” the source with knowledge of the meeting said.

What fucking world are we in anymore. Is there anyone left who hasn't completely bugged the fuck out?
posted by prefpara at 3:07 PM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

Huh. Developing situation, but apparently T_D is/is talking about leaving Reddit for Voat.

Well. Uh... Good luck with that!
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 3:08 PM on May 18, 2017 [13 favorites]

well, wtf: trump team planning possible retaliation for classified leak allegations - white house officials concoct “ludicrous” revenge plan targeting former Obama administration

jesus, that plan. they have the democrats in a position where they can only slow the administration down by being completely obstructionist and yet they still think the best way to make themselves look good is by attacking the obama administration, which no longer exists.

delusional.
posted by murphy slaw at 3:09 PM on May 18, 2017 [13 favorites]

Huh. Developing situation, but apparently T_D is/is talking about leaving Reddit for Voat.

Well. Uh... Good luck with that!

the schadenfreude, in the springtime, it is so sweet
posted by murphy slaw at 3:11 PM on May 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

jesus, that plan. they have the democrats in a position where they can only slow the administration down by being completely obstructionist and yet they still think the best way to make themselves look good is by attacking the obama administration, which no longer exists.

delusional.

It doesn't exist except in the minds of the MAGA crowd, who will blame it perpetually as the cause of 100% of America's ills.
posted by vverse23 at 3:14 PM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

The administration’s approach in this instance is a “bag of crazy cats,” the source with knowledge of the meeting said.

Sources with knowledge of the program found the idea absurd.

One former Department of Homeland Security official, when contacted by FP and told about the Trump team’s plans, laughed in response. “That doesn’t make sense,” he said.

“It seems ludicrous,” the former official added.

Sharing information with international partners might be used as an opportunity and excuse for “finger pointing and house cleaning” at the Department of Homeland Security, the source with knowledge of the meeting said. Members of Trump’s inner circle are apparently angry with the department for refusing to share certain classified information with White House staffers, because they lack proper clearances — a roadblock the White House insists doesn’t exist, because it has the president’s signoff.

posted by Existential Dread at 3:17 PM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

Foreign Policy also has this headline: "US Bombs Syrian Regime forces for first time."

Sound like a convoy got close to an American position. We tried to warn them of through the Russia de-confliction hotline and then with warning shots. When they kept coming anyway, we bombed them.

Article mentions that Trump has delegated this kind of decision making to the military, and that the military is now protecting "de-facto safe zones."
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:19 PM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

Voat ( /voʊt/ ), Noun. A hole where centipedes go to die
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:19 PM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

That's the person in charge of overseeing the market trying to bully insurance companies into supporting the AHCA by holding up legally required premiums for millions of people's healthcare. This is sabotogue.

speaking of "bags of crazy cats", not only is this plan unethical, it makes no fucking sense.

"we are going to withhold your ACA subsidies… unless you support the AHCA… which will eliminate them entirely"
posted by murphy slaw at 3:22 PM on May 18, 2017 [22 favorites]

And he feels bad about firing Flynn! So, yeah, like what was that whole Apprentice thing?

It's been remarked before that Trump apparently hates firing people, because it means admitting he made a mistake:

“It’s admitting he made a bad decision,” Barbara Res, who was the top construction engineer on Trump Tower, told The Daily Beast on Monday. “He always said he has the best people. He brags about that. Even when he doesn’t have the best people, he says he does. Everybody around him has to be the absolute best, because he’s the best. He’s better than the best.”

Res allows that Trump can be quick to say “You’re fired” when angered by people whose services he has retained without embracing them as employees and blessing them with his personal imprimatur.

“He can fire people he gets mad at, lawyers and architects,” Res says. “He can just get rid of them.”

But that all changes if the person is a member of Team Trump and therefore a reflection of him. Trump then seems pained even by the prospect of acknowledging that one of his chosen ones has proven lacking.

posted by AndrewInDC at 3:27 PM on May 18, 2017 [14 favorites]

(Ugh, had even more trouble phone-typing my last comment than I usually do. Reload the page if you want my comment about bombing Syrians to be readable -- fixed it with the edit window.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:28 PM on May 18, 2017

On the one hand, I could tweet TICK TICK TICK TICK and then point to the next inevitable leak as the big news I was alluding to and look prescient. On the other hand, last time I posted something like this mocking those sorts of pre-leak-tweets the Mueller appointment was announced literally seconds later. Soooo.
posted by Justinian at 3:30 PM on May 18, 2017 [26 favorites]

But all those red hat guys who say they're confident about Trump because he's a great businessman: they're thinking of the character he played on TV for ten years.

They're going hunting with the guys from Duck Dynasty essentially.
posted by MattWPBS at 3:30 PM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

White House statement (via NBC reporter's twitter): NYT was "flat wrong" about their knowledge of Flynn.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:31 PM on May 18, 2017

T_D needs a safe space?!
posted by thebrokedown at 3:31 PM on May 18, 2017 [13 favorites]

well, wtf: trump team planning possible retaliation for classified leak allegations - white house officials concoct “ludicrous” revenge plan targeting former Obama administration

The best part about this is that they had this fucking dumbass meeting yesterday and it already leaked.
posted by joedan at 3:33 PM on May 18, 2017 [32 favorites]

they're thinking of the character he played on TV for ten years.
...which was why I knew the Trump Administration would have Zero chance at succeeding at anything when they didn't hire Mark Burnett.
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:34 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Tick Tick Tick

"Nobody will never ever, ever, really, really know.
Because the more you know, the more you know that you don't know shit."
posted by box at 3:34 PM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

White House statement (via NBC reporter's twitter): NYT was "flat wrong" about their knowledge of Flynn.

A full day later and no one willing to put their name on the statement. Well. Oiled. Machine.
posted by chris24 at 3:36 PM on May 18, 2017 [12 favorites]

Well, there was once, during the Cold War, a CIA surveillance scheme wherein a cat was miked up and let loose in D.C. The project ended sadly when the cat got run over by a car.

Cat surveillance knowledge. Dropped.
posted by angrycat at 3:37 PM on May 18, 2017 [10 favorites]

This cat, was it angry?
posted by MattWPBS at 3:41 PM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

Voat ( /voʊt/ ), Noun. A hole where centipedes go to die

Human centipedes?
posted by jferg at 3:44 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

T_D needs a safe space?!

Very much so. They've always banned even the slightest hint of dissent on their own sub. On other subs, they've completely given up on defending Trump's actions. They now just complain about how people won't give Trump a chance and how Trump's supporters can't get a break. How it's "trendy" to bash Trump. Some of them think Antifa is somehow behind it all. At one of the more popular subs, a Trump supporter actually said "This sub used to be safe" after a long string of anti-Trump jokes.

Anyways, hope they bolt over to Voat. Especially now, when Voat is having trouble keeping the lights on. Be nice if they showed up en masse right before Voat shut down.
posted by honestcoyote at 3:44 PM on May 18, 2017 [16 favorites]

So, um, there's apparently a rumor going around, which seems to originate with the Czech media, that Trump plans to name Steve King to be ambassador to the Czech Republic. That can't possibly be right, can it?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 3:45 PM on May 18, 2017

He should appoint Stephen King. It would be less horrifying.
posted by Faint of Butt at 3:47 PM on May 18, 2017 [10 favorites]

That's the person in charge of overseeing the market trying to bully insurance companies into supporting the AHCA by holding up legally required premiums for millions of people's healthcare. This is sabotogue.

These insurance companies should have run straight to their state AG's about this.
posted by jason_steakums at 3:48 PM on May 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

I would be about a million times less mortified to have the US officially represented by Stephen King than by Steve King. Probably more than that.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 3:48 PM on May 18, 2017 [19 favorites]

Evidence or not, leadership sources are privately worried that McMullin had a tape on while he sat silently through all of their confidential meetings. They're concerned about what leaks could come next.

So, in a way, one could say that they're afraid of ending up with Egg all over their faces?
posted by Hairy Lobster at 3:50 PM on May 18, 2017 [10 favorites]

its getting silly - heres an updated twitter daily count of "trump + impeach". And what effect is this having on GOP agenda momentum? heres counts of "repeal and replace" and "tax cuts".
posted by H. Roark at 3:50 PM on May 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

These insurance companies should have run straight to their state AG's about this.

What could the A's-G sorry not sorry do about it though? Tie it up in court? Meanwhile, HHS would continue to not pay.
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:51 PM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

Trump plans to name Steve King to be ambassador to the Czech Republic

Checkmate.
_{I'll show myself out.}
posted by ringu0 at 3:52 PM on May 18, 2017 [11 favorites]

Trump plans to name Steve King to be ambassador to the Czech Republic. That can't possibly be right, can it?

Good. He can go to galas or whatever people who get appointed to those sinecure ambassadorships do, the Social Democratic Czech government will ignore him, and there's at least a chance that his replacement would be merely a virulent racist instead of basically a member of Stormfront.
posted by Copronymus at 3:54 PM on May 18, 2017 [13 favorites]

Part of me thinks "please please please send King off to the Czech Republic, the governor will probably put doofy idiot state senator Rick Bertrand up in his house seat and that's a more winnable fight" but on the other hand, don't really like the thought of a guy who'd likely totally be down with helping Putin in an important European embassy post.
posted by jason_steakums at 3:55 PM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

Here's hoping Trump sends all the worst people to ambassadorships. Sorry world, but they have to go somewhere.
posted by Glibpaxman at 3:56 PM on May 18, 2017

there's apparently a rumor going around, which seems to originate with the Czech media, that Trump plans to name Steve King to be ambassador to the Czech Republic

As the Czech Republic awoke one morning from uneasy dreams it found the US ambassador had been transformed into a giant cockroach.
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:59 PM on May 18, 2017 [85 favorites]

What could the A's-G sorry not sorry do about it though? Tie it up in court? Meanwhile, HHS would continue to not pay.

Tying it up in court is preferable to just sitting there doing nothing, they should be as loud as possible about this straight up blackmail over legally required payments.

(Also I totally regretted not going with "A's-G" after I posted and I'm glad someone did!)
posted by jason_steakums at 3:59 PM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

The state dept response used the term "strongest possible condemnation" which in this case seems like all they will do (say something, not do anything).

“Strongest possible condemnation”? Is that above or below “thoughts and prayers”?
posted by acb at 4:00 PM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

Good. He can go to galas or whatever people who get appointed to those sinecure ambassadorships do

Apparently get their security to beat up protesters.
posted by lumpenprole at 4:01 PM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

Devin Nunes continues reviewing Russia intelligence, despite recusal.

Tick tick tick or no?
posted by Freon at 4:01 PM on May 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

These insurance companies should have run straight to their state AG's about this.

Except knowing them they had to have illegal collusive backroom meetings to divide up the complaint first so they could avoid competing with each other in their complaints. Because, you know, habit.
posted by srboisvert at 4:01 PM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

I parsed that as "there's apparently a rumor going around, the Czech Republic may send Steve King to Eurovision" and I was like what what what

Someone let me sleep.
posted by delfin at 4:03 PM on May 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

I'm about to turn tick tick tick man off for the night.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:03 PM on May 18, 2017

White House statement (via NBC reporter's twitter): NYT was "flat wrong" about their knowledge of Flynn.

Flat just like the earth!
posted by srboisvert at 4:03 PM on May 18, 2017

What's with this whole tick tick tick business ?
posted by Pendragon at 4:07 PM on May 18, 2017

... carrying the nuclear football? That would be .. um .. an interesting development.

The Football is just an authenticator, proof that it's the President giving the command. The actual launch order still has to be made 2 or 3 more times as it passes down the chain of command before it reaches the silos. If he fled his launch authority would simply be revoked. It's not some kind of mobile launch control box. But still it would be very bad to let Russia have one to play with.
posted by scalefree at 4:09 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

H. Roark: You used the term "tax cuts", and the media could very well be talking about it, I think the term they actually have been using is "tax reform", which I thought was a pretty good euphemism because you can read into it the sort of things you want to reform the tax code for even if those things aren't "make the rich pay far less in taxes".
posted by foxfirefey at 4:09 PM on May 18, 2017

re: tick...tick, @BenjaminWittes and his latest tick has some connection with this Lawfare blog entry
posted by TWinbrook8 at 4:11 PM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

What's with this whole tick tick tick business ?

Yes please someone explain wtf this in-joke or whatever is.
posted by thelonius at 4:13 PM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

Dynamite Toast: Benjamin Wittes, close friend of James Comey who tweeted 'tick tick tick tick tick tick' before the NYT story dropped Tuesday, just tweeted it again fifteen minutes ago. (if your browser isn't dying from the thread, searching is helpful!)
posted by halifix at 4:18 PM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

That was coming up on five hours ago. I don't mind if he doesn't have anything, but I'm not thrilled with the reporters who think "news incoming" or "stay tuned" or "tick tick tick tick" is a great way to get followers, when they don't have anything.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:22 PM on May 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

re: ticking, if come brings a def
posted by TypographicalError at 4:28 PM on May 18, 2017

NEW: Trump is telling aides he wants Flynn *back in the White House.*

You guys I'm starting to think this Trump guy isn't entirely mentally well.
posted by threeturtles at 4:34 PM on May 18, 2017 [24 favorites]

Reporter says security 'manhandled' him after he asked FCC questions. Here's the National Press Club statement with a description of what happened:

Throughout the FCC meeting, the security guards had shadowed Donnelly as if he were a security threat, he said, even though he continuously displayed his congressional press pass and held a tape recorder and notepad. They even waited for him outside the men’s room at one point.

When Donnelly strolled in an unthreatening way toward FCC Commissioner Michael O’Rielly to pose a question, two guards pinned Donnelly against the wall with the backs of their bodies until O’Rielly had passed. O’Rielly witnessed this and continued walking.

One of the guards, Frederick Bucher, asked Donnelly why he had not posed his question during the press conference. Then Bucher proceeded to force Donnelly to leave the building entirely under implied threat of force.

Bucher has been implicated in at least one other incident involving harassment of a journalist. Bloomberg News reporter Todd Shields told Donnelly today that Bucher took his (Shields’) press badge last July when Shields was talking to a protester at an FCC meeting. The agency later apologized and said it restored Shields' credentials.

posted by zachlipton at 4:35 PM on May 18, 2017 [13 favorites]

"...@BenjaminWittes and his latest tick has some connection with this Lawfare blog entry"

That was very interesting, thanks.

It seems self-evident to me that the "within the outer perimeter of official duties" language in Fitzgerald necessarily implies that a sitting President may be held liable for misconduct for things outside that perimeter, whatever that might be. But things which are not in any sense official duties still covers a lot of ground.

And I think the footnote in Fitzgerald exempting "Express Act[s] of Congress" from the immunity shield convincingly applies to the Emoluments Clause, which specifically applies to both the President and the VP. Buried deep within Trump's business interests, which he has not placed in trust, there very likely could be numerous examples of such violations, were someone like, say, investigators for the Special Counsel to follow the various paper trails.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 4:36 PM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

its getting silly - heres an updated twitter daily count of "trump + impeach". And what effect is this having on GOP agenda momentum? heres counts of "repeal and replace" and "tax cuts".

say, which tool is that? :)
posted by xcasex at 4:38 PM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

If anyone hates Clarke and wants to read an Army vet who hates Clarke take down that terrible fake uniform, here you go.
posted by corb at 4:41 PM on May 18, 2017 [30 favorites]

here's the boom
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:44 PM on May 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

TIME has posted an itinerary.

May 20: Saudi Arabia. Coffee with the king, royal banquet lunch, bilateral talks, arms deal, agreements re security and economic cooperation, dinner with royal family.

May 21: More bilateral meetings, lunch with leaders of Muslim countries, speech about radical ideology and Islam.

May 22: Israel. Meet with President, lay wreath at Yad Vashem, delivers remarks about "unshakable bond", private meeting and dinner with Bibi.

May 23: Meets with Palestinian Authority president in Bethlehem "part of his effort to facilitate the end of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict", prayer at Western Wall in Jerusalem, visit to Church of the Holy Sepulcher.

May 24: Vatican City. Meets with Pope, tour of St Peter's, meets with Italian president.

May 25: Belgium. Meets with Belgian king and prime minister and other government dignitaries, visits EU HQ and meets with politicians there, lunch with French president Macron, NATO meeting and dinner.

May 26-27: Sicily. G7 meeting with leaders of Germany, UK, France, Canada, Italy, and Japan, concert, dinner.

His objective: "I will strengthen old friendships and seek new partners, but partners who also help us, not partners who take, and take, and take," Trump said in his commencement address. "Partners who help pay for whatever we are doing and all of the good that we doing for them. Which is something that a lot of people have not gotten used to, and they just can't get used to it."

I am conflicted here. It seems churlish to hope for an unmitigated disaster to further hasten his removal when it affects so many other people but I don't think I can deal with Reps braying about a presidential bounce.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 4:45 PM on May 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

Wittes just tweeted "Boom." with a link to this article:

Comey Is Said to Have Become Unsettled by Interactions With Trump
posted by msalt at 4:45 PM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

THERE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE AN EARTH SHATTERING BOOM
posted by yhbc at 4:49 PM on May 18, 2017 [49 favorites]

Not much of a boom. More like a sparkler while you pull better fireworks out of the packaging.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:50 PM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

yeah but you got to watch the attached video, which corroborates Wittes' account of Comey standing very still wearing a blue suit trying to blend in with the blue drapes so Trump won't notice him. that's pretty good.

if he'd been an active field agent at the time and not a desk-bound director for a while it might have worked. there could be an FBI agent standing in your drapes right now, you don't even know
posted by queenofbithynia at 4:51 PM on May 18, 2017 [47 favorites]

I think it's a very significant boom. It shows that Comey is not running away from the limelight here, because if he were, his friend Wittes probably wouldn't be telling the world about this. He wants the public to know more about this -- to the extent that knowing more doesn't compromise the Mueller investigation -- and he seems to have from the get-go understood that Trump was a menace.

The *BOOM* folks are looking for isn't going to happen in the New York Times, it's going to happen at 935 Pennsylvania Avenue NW.
posted by tonycpsu at 4:52 PM on May 18, 2017 [10 favorites]

A nice little "I never trusted you anyway" to Rosenstein in there though:

Mr. Wittes said that in another conversation he told Mr. Comey he was encouraged by the fact that the Senate was likely to confirm Rod J. Rosenstein, a longtime federal prosecutor, as the deputy attorney general.

To Mr. Wittes’s surprise, Mr. Comey did not completely agree with him.

“He said, ‘I don’t know. I have some concerns. He’s good, he’s solid but he’s also a survivor and you don’t survive that long without making some compromises and I’m concerned about that.’”

posted by zachlipton at 4:52 PM on May 18, 2017 [12 favorites]

It quotes him quite extensively was his point, I assume. Not earth-shattering, but then again everyone is all keyed up for the headshot that's probably not coming so it seems more underwhelming.
posted by neonrev at 4:53 PM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

About zachpilton's quote from the article ...

There's a stunning lack of self-awareness there.

I am quite persuaded by Josh Marshall's opinion of Comey -- that Comey has built his "brand" on being someone of great integrity, and he believes himself to be that person, but that, ultimately, and without realizing it, he has undermined that very integrity by placing the importance of protecting his brand above all other considerations. It's a deep irony, and he's completely unaware of it.

On preview, edited to remove an unfortunate complete duplication posting of that quote.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 4:53 PM on May 18, 2017 [18 favorites]

This thread right now.
posted by tonycpsu at 4:55 PM on May 18, 2017

I think this is mostly a Boom to Wittes, who is now named and on the record as the person relaying Comey's experiences to the world. And that does seem to be a significant, if subtle, new wrinkle.
posted by neroli at 4:55 PM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

I've been reading Who Thought This Was a Good Idea?: And Other Questions You Should Have Answers to When You Work in the White House, by lyssa Mastromonaco, who was Obama's deputy chief of staff. The amount of work that goes into planning a presidential trip is jaw-dropping. Given who Trump's surrounded himself with, I find myself wondering if there's anyone in the White House who's capable of making the trip go smoothly.
posted by The corpse in the library at 4:55 PM on May 18, 2017 [13 favorites]

I do like the imagine of Comey trying to blend in with the curtains in the Blue Room though in the hope that nobody noticed him.
posted by zachlipton at 4:57 PM on May 18, 2017 [30 favorites]

The administration’s approach in this instance is a “bag of crazy cats,” the source with knowledge of the meeting said.

I'm guessing that means "insane felines," not "hipster beatniks."
posted by msalt at 4:57 PM on May 18, 2017 [28 favorites]

NEW: Trump is telling aides he wants Flynn *back in the White House.*

Is it possible for Trump to issue a Presidential pardon for crimes that have been committed but not yet been brought to trial? What I mean is, could he pardon Flynn for anything he did and allow him to come back as a WH adviser?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:00 PM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

Boom

"The day after the Flynn conversation, Reince Priebus, the White House chief of staff, asked Mr. Comey to help push back on reports in the news media that Mr. Trump’s associates had been in contact with Russian intelligence officials during the campaign."

Oh Reince, you should know better than this. In February, it was reported by "senior administration officials" that McCabe and Comey had told Reince there was no truth to the NYT report of connections or Russian contact with the campaign/admin. Which would possibly be a violation of the law. And which Reince used to try to dismiss/minimize the reports. Now it seems Comey is saying not only didn't they do that, but that Reince came to them and asked for help. Which would possibly be a violation of the law by Reince.
posted by chris24 at 5:00 PM on May 18, 2017 [54 favorites]

Sure. The President can pardon someone for crimes that haven't even been charged with yet. Ford pardoned Nixon, after all. A pardon wouldn't stop a congressional investigation though.
posted by zachlipton at 5:02 PM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

Is it possible for Trump to issue a Presidential pardon for crimes that have been committed but not yet been brought to trial?

Ford did it for Nixon.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 5:02 PM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

I do like the imagine of Comey trying to blend in with the curtains in the Blue Room though in the hope that nobody noticed him.

I have a friend who works for an intelligence service in... uh... well, an allied foreign nation. Super small guy, unobtrusive, friendly. He can be public about it 'cause mostly he does language work in an office. Still, when people hear who he works for he often gets asked how he can work in intelligence since he's so, y'know, small and unobtrusive. He'll promptly stand behind the nearest other person and suddenly you can't fucking see him at all and then he says, "Give it ten seconds and you'll forget I'm even here."

Somehow I doubt Comey has that same talent.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:04 PM on May 18, 2017 [25 favorites]

less of a boom, more of a softly rustling velvet.
posted by acidic at 5:06 PM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

Does Comey think Trump is a t-rex?
posted by dilaudid at 5:08 PM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

Well, they have the same proportions
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:09 PM on May 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

Trump suicide or hospitalization in 3...2...1...

I'm not making a lighthearted joke. I honestly believe that he has no idea how hard he's been played by whoever his Russian handlers are. He is just now finding out, if he has the cognitive ability, that he's been someone's bitch for entire duration of this fiasco that probably started many years ago. He's been groomed for this and every single fucking Republican embraced this groomed by Russia asshole-informant-agent-traitor-stooge.

The personal support systems that he's relied upon for his entire life are evaporating and disintegrating. Nothing can support his menagerie any longer. He's fucked.

That's not the end of the story for the rest of us, however. We still need to fuck the rest of the Republican party and continue to expose them as the traitorous fucks that they are. Hopefully this investigation is just the first step that gets that snowball rolling!
posted by snsranch at 5:09 PM on May 18, 2017 [23 favorites]

Just consider for a moment that we're at a place where credible reports that the head of the FBI was deeply creeped out by the President is mehworthy news.
posted by Justinian at 5:09 PM on May 18, 2017 [88 favorites]

THOSE DRAPES ARE TALL THOUGH!!!
posted by waitangi at 5:10 PM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

Does Comey think Trump is a t-rex?

The tiny little hands threw him.
posted by Freon at 5:11 PM on May 18, 2017 [20 favorites]

Politico has a worthwhile article on Comey and Mueller, entitled, What Donald Trump Needs to Know About Bob Mueller and Jim Comey. I am not sure how much spinning is going on but I did enjoy this from the article about Comey resisting White House attempts to renew domestic surveillance provisions.

Yet even amid the stress of that time, Comey didn’t hesitate to force the issue of STELLAR WIND, standing up to the vice president. During one White House meeting, Comey said he couldn’t find a legal basis for the program.

“Others see it differently,” a scowling Cheney replied.

“The analysis is flawed—in fact, fatally flawed. No lawyer reading that could reasonably rely on it,” Comey said, his hand sweeping across the table dismissively.

Cheney’s counsel, the famously aggressive David Addington, standing in the back of the room, spoke up: “Well, I’m a lawyer,” he snapped, “and I did.”

Comey shot back, “No good lawyer.”

posted by vac2003 at 5:12 PM on May 18, 2017 [127 favorites]

oooh it's maybe the eyesight thing again
he may have good reason to think that Trump wouldn't see him
posted by angrycat at 5:13 PM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

from the boom:

despite Mr. Trump’s attempts to build a personal relationship, he did not want to be friendly with the president and thought any conversation with him or personal contact was inappropriate.

comey was like bro i would rather be fired than be friends with a douchetrumpet like you
posted by localhuman at 5:15 PM on May 18, 2017 [13 favorites]

Sure. The President can pardon someone for crimes that haven't even been charged with yet. Ford pardoned Nixon, after all. A pardon wouldn't stop a congressional investigation though.

That article cites Ex parte Garland saying that the pardon power

extends to every offence known to the law, and may be exercised at any time after its commission, either before legal proceedings are taken, or during their pendency, or after conviction and judgment.

so that seems to indicate that granting the pardon involves acknowledging that an illegal act has been committed.
posted by XMLicious at 5:16 PM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

The Hill: "U.S. spies reportedly heard a Russian military intelligence officer bragging about his organization planning to target Hillary Clinton in May 2016. The officer told a colleague that GRU would cause havoc in America’s presidential election, Time reported Thursday.

The officer reportedly described the intelligence agency’s effort as retribution for what Russian President Vladimir Putin considered Clinton’s influence campaign against him while serving as secretary of State. Senior U.S. intelligence officials told Time that American spies transcribed the conversation and sent it to headquarters for analysis."
posted by msalt at 5:16 PM on May 18, 2017 [16 favorites]

Next steps: delete facebook, hit the gym. I'm skeptical that he'll accomplish those.

Trump meets with lawyers at the White House

"President Donald Trump convened his legal team on Thursday to discuss the escalating investigation into whether his campaign colluded with Russia during the 2016 election. [...] Among those in attendance was longtime Trump Organization attorney Michael Cohen (lol u fucked too bro), who came down from New York to attend. Cohen declined to comment when reached Thursday afternoon. [...] One objective: to keep Trump from hurting himself any further. [...] Some aides have begun reaching out to lawyers to see if they need counsel, according to one attorney who has spoken to several of them. This lawyer declined to identify the aides because he said at least two may end up being retained by his firm."
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:16 PM on May 18, 2017 [11 favorites]

I'm really not going to complain about a nice long litany of Comey (via Wittes) talking smack about the President. It's clearly weighing Trump down and making him lose his shit a little, as we saw at today's presser. Keep poking, Jimbo: it can only help hasten the eventual Great Unspooling.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:17 PM on May 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

“Others see it differently,” a scowling Cheney replied.

Continued Cheney, "Wheh wheh wheh wheh."
posted by kirkaracha at 5:17 PM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

Today I was talking to two co-workers, both of whom are basically politically sound but not very interested in politics. They both told me that they're completely tuning out the news because it's too depressing. I was like "no, seriously, you should go look at a newspaper website, because a lot of stuff has happened in the past couple of days, and it's not all terrible." And they were like "no, the news is too depressing, why don't you just tell us what is happening?" Which, guys, it is so fucking hard to even remember everything that has happened!

So anyway, it made me realize that for every one of us who are spending every night glued to Twitter, there are probably two people who don't have any idea about any of it. I'm not sure what to make of that!
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:18 PM on May 18, 2017 [43 favorites]

if we win in 2018 and again in 2020 it is long past time to outlaw gerrymandering for both state and federal elections

This is harder than you might think. There are obvious, flagrant, terribly shaped districts (and some of the worst of these were even drawn by Democrats, like MD-3 and IL-4), but a lot of unfair districtings don't look conspicuously terrible on a map. From a mathematical point of view, both the question "what makes a districting plan fair?" and "how do we achieve optimal fairness under this definition of 'fair'?" tend to be really sticky questions. There are definitely people looking at this (prominently Moon Duchin) but the first question isn't one with an obvious "right answer" and how you answer that one kind of dictates how you answer the second.

So, "outlaw gerrymandering" is a very fine notion, but figuring out what specific aspect of a district would make it a "gerrymander" under such a law is a bit entangled with difficult issues.
posted by jackbishop at 5:19 PM on May 18, 2017 [12 favorites]

So, "outlaw gerrymandering" is a very fine notion, but figuring out what specific aspect of a district would make it a "gerrymander" under such a law is a bit entangled with difficult issues.

Removing redistricting from the hands of state legislatures under partisan majority control and establishing nonpartisan redistricting commissions prior to next reapportionment (2021, after the 2020 census) would probably be a good start.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 5:21 PM on May 18, 2017 [40 favorites]

Heh.

Cheney’s counsel, the famously aggressive David Addington, standing in the back of the room, spoke up: “Well, I’m a lawyer,” he snapped, “and I did.”

Comey shot back, “No good lawyer.”

Addington is also infamously a snake and perhaps possessed by demons. Fun fact: Addington graduated from Sandia High School in Albuquerque one year ('74) before Janet Napolitano did ('75).
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 5:22 PM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

Comey shot back, “No good lawyer.”

Ha ha hahahahaha. God I love this guy despite hating him. I mean, I know he's a sanctimonious arrogant prick, but you have to admire the utter fortitude and snark. Flipping off Cheney, the nyah-nyah-nyah torture thing, etc., etc. . . . he's had some pretty good moments. Like I said a couple of threads ago, Comey's gonna sink his teeth in you and hang on like a wolverine if he decides you're a malefactor, and I think Donald is going to be very, very sorry he picked this fight.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:24 PM on May 18, 2017 [19 favorites]

Senate Democrats reject Lieberman for FBI director. Even Manchin isn't backing Lieberman. The Democratic consensus seems to be "stay away from political figures."

I feel like this is going to be another absurd misreading of the situation like the Comey firing. With Comey, Trump was supposedly shocked that Democrats were upset he fired him, because Democrats were complaining about Comey from the election. With Lieberman, Trump could be shocked that Democrats are upset with the choice even though he was Al Gore's running mate.
posted by zachlipton at 5:25 PM on May 18, 2017 [59 favorites]

"Sure. The President can pardon someone for crimes that haven't even been charged with yet."

Federal crimes. A distinction possibly not relevant in this case, but still.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 5:27 PM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

So, "outlaw gerrymandering" is a very fine notion, but figuring out what specific aspect of a district would make it a "gerrymander" under such a law is a bit entangled with difficult issues.

Removing redistricting from the hands of state legislatures under partisan majority control and establishing nonpartisan redistricting commissions following the next reapportionment (2021, after the 2020 census) would probably be a good start.

Proportional representation for House representatives on a per-state basis. Extraordinarily unlikely to happen, but a guy can dream.
posted by dhens at 5:27 PM on May 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

If anyone hates Clarke and wants to read an Army vet who hates Clarke take down that terrible fake uniform, here you go.

I'm guessing that he only wears a jacket festooned with shiny badges because a bullet belt or necklace of human skulls would be frowned upon.
posted by acb at 5:29 PM on May 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

Wittes goes into more detail on the blog about the sort of boundary issues Trump had with Comey and his efforts to "to train the White House" about the proper ways to interact with the FBI under policy:

Comey never told me the details of the dinner meeting; I don’t think I even knew that there had been a meeting over dinner until I learned it from the Times story. But he did tell me in general terms that early on, Trump had “asked for loyalty” and that Comey had promised him only honesty. He also told me that Trump was perceptibly uncomfortable with this answer. And he said that ever since, the President had been trying to be chummy in a fashion that Comey felt was designed to absorb him into Trump’s world—to make him part of the team. Comey was deeply uncomfortable with these episodes. He told me that Trump sometimes talked to him a fashion designed to implicate him in Trump’s way of thinking. While I was not sure quite what this meant, it clearly disquieted Comey. He felt that these conversations were efforts to probe how resistant he would be to becoming a loyalist. In light of the dramatic dinner meeting and the Flynn request, it’s easy to see why they would be upsetting and feel like attempts at pressure.

On March 27, he described one incident in particular that had bothered him. Comey was about to get on a helicopter when his phone rang. It was the White House saying that the President wanted to speak with him. Figuring there must be something urgent going on, he delayed his flight to take the call. To his surprise, the President just wanted to chitchat. He was trying to be social, Comey related; there was no agenda, much less an urgent one. Notably, since the President has claimed that Comey told him in two phone conversations that he was not under investigation, Comey said nothing to me about the subject coming up in this call. Indeed, he regarded the call as weird for how substanceless it was. What bothered Comey was twofold—the fact that the conversation happened at all (why was Trump calling him to exchange pleasantries?) and the fact that there was an undercurrent of Trump’s trying to get him to kiss the ring.

He goes on to speculate that Comey was worried about what loyalty oath Rosenstein might have been asked to swear.
posted by zachlipton at 5:31 PM on May 18, 2017 [39 favorites]

Trump has never been that quick to answer a question. "Did you ask Comey to stop investigating Flynn?" (paraphrased) Answer:"No. Next question"

The press should know by now that to get interesting quotes, you don't ask yes or no questions. You ask, "Mr Comey claims X, what really happened?"
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 5:31 PM on May 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

There are a few ways to sidestep the problem of gerrymandering - proportional representation is one - but there isn't time to build support for those solutions before 2021. For 2021, the best we can do is nonpartisan commissions.

although honestly I think it would be better for Democrats to use the tool before throwing it away.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 5:32 PM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

Iowa has non-partisan redistricting, done by civil servants who are not allowed to take into account previous election results or voter registration patterns. They're supposed to aim for equal population distribution and relatively compact districts. However, although each party gets equal say in the process, it does entrench the role of the current two parties: both the majority and minority parties in the state legislature get to nominate two members of the commission (the last one is chosen by those four people), and both parties have to sign off on the eventual plan. I don't think there's currently any possibility of a third-party candidate being viable for an Iowa congressional seat, but if there were, then you could argue that the process was biased against them.

Anyway, the Republicans currently control the entire state government and are awful, so it's entirely possible they'll bring back partisan redistricting for the next go round.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:32 PM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

A browser game that illustrates the mechanics of gerrymandering. Its conclusion is that multiple-member districts would be the way to make gerrymandering much more difficult.
posted by acb at 5:33 PM on May 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

Proportional representation for House representatives on a per-state basis.

Yeah, that's not likely to happen; a better idea would be increasing the size of the House (which was frozen at the current number of representatives in 1911) using the least-populous state as a yardstick for determining the total number of seats (which would give a House of about 600-odd members).
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 5:33 PM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

Trump suicide or hospitalization in 3...2...1...

Serious, if morbid question: is the president ever in a circumstance where it is plausible for him to commit suicide? I mean, he's typically cocooned within a cordon of people whose whole job is keeping him safe, and it's not like he has unfettered access to harmful things.

I'm thinking about how one president (Bush, I think?) talked about how he didn't even carry a wallet or keys, because he had people for that and they wanted to keep things as simple as possible. Likewise presidents don't drive for themselves, or do much of anything without a few USSS folks lurking nearby. The capacity for physical self-harm seems pretty limited.
posted by jackbishop at 5:37 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

which would give a House of about 600-odd members).

Oh god, no. Have you seen the New Hampshire assembly? Do not want.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:37 PM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

zachlipton: "To his surprise, the President just wanted to chitchat. He was trying to be social, Comey related; there was no agenda, much less an urgent one."

Gah. Can you even imagine?

Operator: Please hold for the President.
Comey: ...
Trump: Hey, Jim.
Comey: Good evening, Mr. President.
Trump: Soooo..... whatcha doin'?
Comey: [internal screaming]
posted by mhum at 5:39 PM on May 18, 2017 [110 favorites]

The most interesting about the NYT article, I think, is this bit at the end...

Mr. Wittes said that in another conversation he told Mr. Comey he was encouraged by the fact that the Senate was likely to confirm Rod J. Rosenstein, a longtime federal prosecutor, as the deputy attorney general.

To Mr. Wittes’s surprise, Mr. Comey did not completely agree with him.

“He said, ‘I don’t know. I have some concerns. He’s good, he’s solid but he’s also a survivor and you don’t survive that long without making some compromises and I’m concerned about that.’”

...which is clearly Comey sending a public message to Rosenstein, via Wittes and the Times.
posted by neroli at 5:39 PM on May 18, 2017 [28 favorites]

And I know we already have the Toby Keith story here...

Of course, Trump's favorite TK song is I Wanna Talk About Me.
posted by Mental Wimp at 5:40 PM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

So anyway, it made me realize that for every one of us who are spending every night glued to Twitter, there are probably two people who don't have any idea about any of it. I'm not sure what to make of that!

I went to the ABC store yesterday for bourbon and the clerk behind the counter was really tall. So I asked him how tall. 6'7" "Oh. Just a bit shorter than James Comey." He stared at me blankly. "James Comey. The FBI direcotr who just got fired by Trump." He looked helplessly at the older female clerk next to him as though she might translate the complete gibberish coming out of my mouth.

Later, driving home, I thought it IS a bit weird to not only know the name of the ex-Director of the FBI but also his height.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:42 PM on May 18, 2017 [149 favorites]

I mean, none of these things are going to happen if there isn't any public support for it. But none of it's impossible either.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 5:42 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Oh god, no. Have you seen the New Hampshire assembly?

The French parliament has 577 members, the British House of Commons has 650. A legislative assembly of that size is manageable (and more representative, which is a good thing).
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 5:42 PM on May 18, 2017 [15 favorites]

Yeah but Americans are the worst at electing people. The worst.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:44 PM on May 18, 2017 [19 favorites]

Serious, if morbid question: is the president ever in a circumstance where it is plausible for him to commit suicide? I mean, he's typically cocooned within a cordon of people whose whole job is keeping him safe, and it's not like he has unfettered access to harmful things.

So... yes? I'm not gonna throw out options here 'cause it's a little ghoulish even considering my disgust for this dude. (I want him to rot in prison until he dies.) But the first options I think of would all require a lot more fortitude if not courage than I expect Twitler to actually have.

The thing is, I don't imagine he's going to get suicidal. His pathetic and self-serving remarks at the Coast Guard Academy kinda demonstrate why. He genuinely thinks things will always work out for him in the end if he perseveres, because they always have... but he doesn't remotely understand why. And he doesn't understand the trouble he's in now. Hell, that ignorance and denial is probably a source of strength.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:44 PM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

Today I was talking to two co-workers, both of whom are basically politically sound but not very interested in politics. They both told me that they're completely tuning out the news because it's too depressing.

I'm not saying they ought to be constantly checking the news, but they have a moral obligation to be informed and involved. People checking out politically when the news gets 'too depressing' are a necessary part of how atrocities happen.
posted by galaxy rise at 5:45 PM on May 18, 2017 [20 favorites]

Oh god, no. Have you seen the New Hampshire assembly? Do not want.

Another part of "Because this is how you get the NH House!" is that they're limited to people who are willing to mess with people's lives on $100/year.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:46 PM on May 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

The French parliament has 577 members, the British House of Commons has 650. A legislative assembly of that size is manageable (and more representative, which is a good thing).

Also, larger legislatures tend to have more generous margins, and the culture of party discipline that emerges in them tends to be more flexible than in smaller ones, and thus more amenable to compromise.
posted by acb at 5:46 PM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

It's just yet one more example of Trump's utter hapless idiocy and insularity and complete lack of perceptiveness. Can you imagine anyone on earth less likely than Comey to want to be Trump's buddy or servant?
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:48 PM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

Sadly, I think it's much more likely that Trump would do something desperate that badly hurts many other people than that he'd do something desperate that hurts himself. (Well, intentionally, anyway.)
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 5:49 PM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

Can you imagine anyone on earth less likely than Comey to want to be Trump's buddy or servant?

*raises hand*
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:49 PM on May 18, 2017 [53 favorites]

Gee I hate to keep riding my hobbyhorse but I am a bit concerned about Trump in re: Presidential Pardons. We already know he breaks all norms and stretches all boundaries and he is not very good at calculating political costs. I can easily foresee that the minute indictments start coming down, he will whip out his pen and toss out pardons like party favors: Jared, Ivanka, Pence, Flynn, Manafort, Bannon, and everyone else. It would cost him nothing (money, I mean) and would allow him to act like the regal monarch he fancies himself. I'm guessing there are no limits on how many pardons he can sign and how quickly he can get them out.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:52 PM on May 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

I saw multiple reporters report today that the WH believes Lieberman to be a safe, easily confirmed choice that Democrats will like.

Who the FUCK are they getting their advice on "what Democrats like" from? This is twice now that the WH has decided to do something they felt would be uncontroversial with the Democrats and utterly failed to read their opposition. The MOMENT I heard it was probably Lieberman I thought, "Wow, way to stick it to the Democrats." Doesn't any Republican recall that Lieberman basically played for the other side in Bush v. Gore? And that when he garnered Democratic support when he ran as an independent OVER THE ACTUAL DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE, he paid the DNC back by endorsing John McCain? Not to mention all the health care shenanigans. Yeah, the Democrats haven't forgotten any of that horseshit.
posted by xyzzy at 5:53 PM on May 18, 2017 [83 favorites]

Trump is a consummate narcissist. To despair to the point of suicide would be to come to some sort of terms with his failure. This is never going to happen.
posted by Brak at 5:54 PM on May 18, 2017 [17 favorites]

Devin Nunes continues reviewing Russia intelligence, despite recusal.

devin nunes attempting spycraft has provided some of the most hilarious images of the last five months. i can't imagine that him continuing to poke around, with trump's sanction or not, is going to end well for anyone.
posted by murphy slaw at 5:54 PM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

People checking out politically when the news gets 'too depressing' are a necessary part of how atrocities happen.

But at the same time, I can totally see why it's happening. This is a hard reality to face, these days. And to be plugged in takes its toll. I don't disagree with you, but I sympathize with those who are having trouble coping. Means the rest of us have to be that much more vigilant, though.
posted by Brak at 5:58 PM on May 18, 2017 [14 favorites]

I've sort of accepted that it's a losing battle to even try and convince people not to armchair diagnose a person with various mental conditions, but can we try real hard to not let "Suicide Watch: Trump Edition" become a running theme here too? One of them I will admit is possibly relevant (though it's weird how much money I spent on my mental health without firm answers, didn't know I could just talk on TV and let the internet do it for free), the other is really just baseless spitballing and kind of gross wishful thinking.

I kind of need these threads to stay sane and I don't need the added problem of reading that noise.
posted by neonrev at 5:58 PM on May 18, 2017 [23 favorites]

devin nunes attempting spycraft has provided some of the most hilarious images of the last five months. i can't imagine that him continuing to poke around, with trump's sanction or not, is going to end well for anyone.

Putin should fire his handler.
posted by Artw at 5:59 PM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

Yeah, the suicide thing needs to stop here. Thanks.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 6:00 PM on May 18, 2017 [40 favorites]

Who the FUCK are they getting their advice on "what Democrats like" from?

Hey, Joe Lieberman told Trump that he knew he himself was very popular with both sides, that people loved him, and that it would be a snap, and after spending the first half of the interview pointing out true fact after true fact like how mean people are to Trump and how popular he really was no matter what the media says, it was pretty obvious that Joe knows a thing or two about truth in politics.
posted by Copronymus at 6:01 PM on May 18, 2017 [21 favorites]

Maddow's leading with the Comey-Wittes story.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:03 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Wittes probably sees the Comey story as a boom because it foreshadows Comey's testimony, and is damning evidence of obstruction.
posted by Coventry at 6:08 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

The relationship between Trump and Flynn is murky.

kinda like Nixon and Bebe Rebozo.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 6:09 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Who the FUCK are they getting their advice on "what Democrats like" from?

This month's issue of Republican Cosmo.

What's HOT across the aisle?
6 legislative tricks that will drive your Democrat wild
PLUS: Lindsay Graham's tips for bikini season

posted by Freon at 6:10 PM on May 18, 2017 [47 favorites]

How about that Bill Clinton - Loretta Lynch meeting though. Totally inappropriate.
posted by chris24 at 6:10 PM on May 18, 2017 [22 favorites]

Trump is a consummate narcissist. To despair to the point of suicide would be to come to some sort of terms with his failure. This is never going to happen.

What would happen if the irresistible force of his narcissistic self-aggrandisement met the immovable object of the undeniable certainty of his utter failure, to the point where it was impossible for him to convince himself that he is a winner, or likely to be a winner again? Would he end up lapsing into catatonia, or spend the rest of his days in a padded cell, gibbering quietly to himself like the victim in a H.P. Lovecraft story?
posted by acb at 6:11 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Also, good on Wittes for going on the record.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:12 PM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

Comey may be out of a job, but it sure looks likes he's still working.
posted by klarck at 6:16 PM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: Is Donald Trump a witch?

Other politicians in American history have suffered, at best, minor unpleasantnesses. James Garfield got a fat, lazy, Monday-hating cat named after him, which was a pretty cruel thing, but other than that nothing really bad occurred.

John F. Kennedy had to listen to Marilyn Monroe sing, and everyone knows that she was quite hefty and could not sing as well as a Miss USA contestant. But his life was basically fine, even if Ted Cruz’s dad did conspire to give him a very unpleasant surprise during a visit to Dallas.

Abraham Lincoln never had to suffer like this, except possibly one time when actor John Wilkes Booth was very rude and disruptive while Lincoln was trying to enjoy a play.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:19 PM on May 18, 2017 [20 favorites]

If Lieberman gets confirmed, I propose we change the name of the FBI to Traitor Joe's.
posted by dephlogisticated at 6:19 PM on May 18, 2017 [94 favorites]

Dylan Scott wrote us a tremendously wonky article about what's going on with the AHCA CBO score and why it's possible there's going to be a problem with the bill. It's geeky and technical and you can live a very happy and fulfilling life without caring about any of this, but if you want to know what's up, it's here for you.

There's a ton of uncertainty about how the CBO will score this though, since the costs are going to depend on whether states apply for waivers and exactly what those waivers will waive and all sorts of other things that are difficult to predict. It's going to be interesting when it drops next week.
posted by zachlipton at 6:21 PM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

I totally forgot what an awful ticket Gore/Lieberman was.

The Democratic Party: Shooting Ourselves In The Feet Since The Turn Of The Century.
posted by Coventry at 6:21 PM on May 18, 2017 [13 favorites]

People with narcissistic personality disorder tend to have difficulty being aware of and identifying their feelings and instead experience somatic symptoms (i.e. mistake emotions, particularly unacceptable ones, as bodily discomfort). It's more likely a person living with this disorder would be hospitalized for "chest pain" or "gastric distress" than emotional distress.
posted by Waiting for Pierce Inverarity at 6:21 PM on May 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

In defense of Joe Lieberman, times were different back then, and Democrats had to walk a fine no wait just kidding fuck that guy.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:24 PM on May 18, 2017 [78 favorites]

People with narcissistic personality disorder tend to have difficulty being aware of and identifying their feelings and instead experience somatic symptoms (i.e. mistake emotions, particularly unacceptable ones, as bodily discomfort). It's more likely a person living with this disorder would be hospitalized for "chest pain" or "gastric distress" than emotional distress.

"Presidential Alexithymia" would work equally well as a title for a book about current events, or the name of my new band.
posted by prosopagnosia at 6:29 PM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

Y'know, what's going to make Trump froth at the mouth about this new Comey story isn't the intimations of wrongdoing; it's that it makes him look so needy and highlights Comey's distaste for his violation of norms and his crass grossness. Those "we think we have them trained now" comments are going to rankle like all hell.

Schmidt should have titled it "Mr. President: Comey Just Isn't That Into You."
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:31 PM on May 18, 2017 [42 favorites]

I totally forgot what an awful ticket Gore/Lieberman was.

Gore's big mistake was trying to distance himself from Clinton, which he seemed to think he needed to do so as to not be associated with sex scandal. Lieberman, who seemed to add mostly extra moralizing priggishness to the ticket, was an outcome of that strategy, perhaps.
posted by thelonius at 6:33 PM on May 18, 2017 [22 favorites]

Ye gods, the video of Comey blending into the curtains and looming out of them like Federal Drapery Slenderman
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:35 PM on May 18, 2017 [37 favorites]

I am a bit concerned about Trump in re: Presidential Pardons. We already know he breaks all norms and stretches all boundaries and he is not very good at calculating political costs.

On the contrary, I hope he hands pardons out like candy. They are only a barrier to prosecution, not impeachment, so they wouldn't necessarily help the recipients stay in political life; and accepting a pardon is effectively an acknowledgment of guilt. Political pardons have hurt other Presidents and I think their distribution – and acceptance – would help signal that this Presidency really was that bad.
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:37 PM on May 18, 2017

Can you not accept a pardon? How does that even work?
posted by Andrhia at 6:40 PM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

ye gods comey is a gigantic man
posted by murphy slaw at 6:43 PM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

Burdick v. USA: the editor of the New York Tribune refused a pardon, because accepting one would have meant he could be forced to reveal a source.
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:44 PM on May 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

"Trump is a consummate narcissist."

He is, and I think that's relevant to a lot of things, but it goes beyond that. Politicians and business leaders typically have narcissistic traits; they can be, as is sometimes discussed, an asset for certain kinds of endeavors. But there are tendencies that remain in the realm of functional and then there are excesses that become truly pathological. Trump, in his apparent success, seems to be in the first category, but I think we're seeing a lot of signs that he's really in the second. And I think if you look at the external evidence regarding his private life -- his history with family and friends -- it looks pretty bad. He certainly has never seemed happy and there's a long history of varieties of self self-destructive behavior.

In general, and specifically with regard to the earlier conversation about his apparent poor taste, I find that I've been puzzling over this for a long, long time now. I've known, been close to or around, a number of wealthy people in my life -- millionaires in the tens to hundreds of millions range and even one billionaire heiress. The one group I've never had any experience with are the old money New England aristocracy, but I think they exemplify the polar opposite of someone like Trump.

But with moderate to large wealth of newer money, my experience is that there's always a small portion of the ostentatious nouveau riche who are blind to the social cues among the wealthy that generally disdain vulgar excess, but that given enough time and experience, most people learn not to be the kind of person who has a gold-plated toilet. And this probably says more about me than anything, but being from the southwest, if I were to expect someone to just be clueless and be proud of their gold-plated toilet, it'd be someone from around this part of the country, not someone within the monied class of New York City. That Trump is this way and has existed within that milieu has to be singularly significant. You'd really have to work hard to be as maladroit within that subculture as Trump is, given so many examples of what's socially acceptable that constantly surround him.

My grandfather came from humble beginnings to be, in his lifetime, the most important banker in his state and arguably the most important banker in the state in the 20th century. And my grandmother did a lot of work (she also had humble origins, but she had a keen social sense) to cultivate my grandfather's public persona, how he dressed, how he dealt with the press, etc. He was very, very good at his job, and at the social aspect of his job, but he wasn't quite so skilled at existing within that social milieu. So he took good advice.

Trump, in contrast, only sees his wives and children as accouterments, accessories to accent his supposed prestige. Ivanka, clearly, understands and works very hard to be part of the world that has rejected Trump -- I suspect that Trump both respects and resents her for it. Seeing her primarily as a sex object is probably how he compensates for his insecurity at her success where he has always abjectly failed.

But how does someone get to be Trump? How can he be so oblivious to why the other New York City wealthy and power class has never accepted him? How can he be so wrong in his judgments about so many people close to him and never learn from this? And, honestly, I think the simple answer is that his personality disorder is so deeply pathological and sui generis that it manages to simultaneously propel him into nominally very successful positions within which he can, and will, further prove himself to be a misfit, to his continuing frustration and resentment.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 6:52 PM on May 18, 2017 [36 favorites]

NYT: $110 Billion Weapons Sale to Saudis Has Jared Kushner’s Personal Touch

Mr. Kushner was referring to a $100 billion-plus arms deal that the administration hoped to seal with Saudi Arabia in time to announce it during Mr. Trump’s visit to the kingdom this weekend. The two sides discussed a shopping list that included planes, ships and precision-guided bombs. Then an American official raised the idea of the Saudis’ buying a sophisticated radar system designed to shoot down ballistic missiles.

Sensing that the cost might be a problem, several administration officials said, Mr. Kushner picked up the phone and called Marillyn A. Hewson — the chief executive of Lockheed Martin, which makes the radar system — and asked her whether she could cut the price. As his guests watched slack-jawed, Ms. Hewson told him she would look into it, officials said.
…
While Mr. Kushner’s middle-of-the-meeting call to a military contractor was unorthodox, current and former officials said, it did not appear to raise legal issues. Lockheed is the sole manufacturer of the antimissile system, known as Terminal High Altitude Area Defense, or Thaad.
…
The showcase event will be a speech in which the officials said Mr. Trump would seek to unify the Muslim world against the scourge of extremism. Stephen Miller, Mr. Trump’s senior policy adviser, is writing the speech, which officials said would serve as an answer to the landmark address to the Islamic world that Mr. Obama gave in Cairo in 2009.

White House officials have consulted Mr. Obama’s speech and predicted a starkly different tone from Mr. Trump. His goal, they said, will be to unify America’s allies around a common set of objectives, including a harder line against Iran and a pledge to share the security burden in the region. The speech will not include any apology for America’s role.
…
The Obama administration put a hold on precision-guided munitions it had agreed to sell the Saudis out of fear that they would be used to bomb civilians in Yemen. The Trump administration has freed up those weapons, which are part of the $110 billion package.

posted by murphy slaw at 6:55 PM on May 18, 2017 [22 favorites]

The Pence folks are running scared and want it to be known that they know nothing about nuthin': Source: Pence Never Informed About Flynn. The story is by a reporter who covered Pence all through the campaign. That Pence is so transparently interested in avoiding responsibility here certainly makes me wonder just how much worse they think it's going to get:

The source close to the administration, who requested anonymity as the White House denies the story, is now saying that Pence and his team were not made aware of any investigation relating to Flynn's work as a foreign agent for Turkey.

"It's also a fact that if he told McGahn that during the transition, it's also a fact that not only was Pence not made aware of that, no one around Pence was as well," the source said. "And that's an egregious error — and it has to be intentional. It's either malpractice or intentional, and either are unacceptable."

The source said that if The Times story is true, blame would lie on McGahn and whoever he told for not informing the vice president or his advisers.
...
Asked about a letter from Rep. Elijah Cummings to Pence on November 18 that warned the transition team about Flynn's work for Turkey, the source asserted: "I'm not sure we saw the letter."

How does this work? "Hi, this is Shmick Schmence, anonymous source. You know that story we're denying? Well, I'm not saying the denial is full of crap, but if it is, I totally blame someone else. Also, I ignore my mail."
posted by zachlipton at 7:02 PM on May 18, 2017 [31 favorites]

On the contrary, I hope he hands pardons out like candy. They are only a barrier to prosecution, not impeachment, so they wouldn't necessarily help the recipients stay in political life; and accepting a pardon is effectively an acknowledgment of guilt.

Also, pardons only apply to federal crimes, right? So his staff could still face state prosecution, though I suppose it would shield them from anything done in Washington, DC.
posted by msalt at 7:04 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Comey Is Said to Have Become Unsettled by Interactions With Trump

This would have been a boom three days ago. Today not so much. The details of Comey's memo are worse than anything here.

I'm still glad Wittes spoke out though. It's more fuel for the fire.
posted by diogenes at 7:06 PM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

I dunno: at least one more instance of direct interference by Trump himself, Priebus also trying to strongarm Comey . . . while not a big sexy BOOM, it helps fill in the pattern of the White House repeatedly attempting to influence the investigation and control the FBI. There was a concerted effort to shut this thing down, one way or another.

Until Mar 20 arrived and it became clear Comey was really not going to play ball. God knows why they ever thought he might. Did they interpret the Hillary stuff as him being on their side? because it's pretty clearly an example of Comey doing his own thing and overtly not giving a flying fuck what his superiors or Congress or America in general thinks he should do.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:15 PM on May 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

It's not much of a "boom," but it does seem to be fleshing out a narrative for Comey. The R talking point since the news of the Comey memos has been "why didn't he do anything then?" Obviously, there was no-one to go to (Sessions?), and nothing to do at that point (ongoing investigation that may reach anywhere). This narrative is destroying the Republicans' first attempt to discredit Comey by giving his justifications at the time.

The "didn't trust Rosenstein" fits into this as well.

It appears that Comey will be happy to slowly leak whatever he wants in response to whatever twists and turns Trump or congressional Rs try.
posted by mhz at 7:15 PM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

The whole Saudi thing has the ring of A Hologram for the King.*

* Dave Eggers, not whatever the fuck Tom Hanks did with the story.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:16 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

I know Trump lives in a Fox News/toady bubble, but there's something so satisfying about knowing he'll have to deal with one of the most important newspapers in the world running a story about how nobody likes him because he is so annoying.
posted by bibliowench at 7:18 PM on May 18, 2017 [19 favorites]

I am a bit concerned about Trump in re: Presidential Pardons. We already know he breaks all norms and stretches all boundaries and he is not very good at calculating political costs.

He won't. If you get pardoned, you lose your 5th Amendment protections against self-incrimination.

So if, for example, Trump pardons Flynn, then Flynn can be compelled to spill his guts about Trump under oath.

Trump doesn't care about anyone but himself (other than maaaybe Ivanka?). He's not going to take that risk.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 7:23 PM on May 18, 2017 [14 favorites]

Deadspin: All That's Left To Say Is That The President Is A Big Dummy

i followed some "previously" links in this article, and while none of them are particularly timely now or superior to the linked article in invective, this one does coin the descriptor "corned-beef dirigible donald trump" which makes me snort every time i think of it.
posted by murphy slaw at 7:27 PM on May 18, 2017 [14 favorites]

If you get pardoned, you lose your 5th Amendment protections against self-incrimination.

Trump doesn't know how even one other part of the government works. Why do you think he knows, or cares, about this obscure part?
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:28 PM on May 18, 2017 [11 favorites]

If things heat up enough, it might be in Trump's best interest to have Flynn turn on Pence, allowing Trump to appoint a new VP that people wouldn't want to replace Trump with.
posted by drezdn at 7:30 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

I think Trump's gonna have a hard time finding a guy anyone thinks is WORSE than him.
posted by Andrhia at 7:30 PM on May 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

appoint a new VP that people wouldn't want to replace Trump with

are there any candidates for this position besides Satan Himself and A Gigantic Swarm Of Japanese Giant Hornets
posted by murphy slaw at 7:31 PM on May 18, 2017 [36 favorites]

So if, for example, Trump pardons Flynn, then Flynn can be compelled to spill his guts about Trump under oath.

I believe this was the dominant theory as to why Scooter Libby didn't get a pardon.
posted by rhizome at 7:32 PM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

Can someone explain why Comey needs to testify before Congress if he has a story to tell? Why not write an editorial in the newspaper?
posted by rustcrumb at 7:32 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

I know Trump lives in a Fox News/toady bubble, but there's something so satisfying about knowing he'll have to deal with one of the most important newspapers in the world running a story about how nobody likes him because he is so annoying.

Ten bucks says his next tweetset brings back the "failing NYT" golden oldie.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:33 PM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

> Can someone explain why Comey needs to testify before Congress if he has a story to tell? Why not write an editorial in the newspaper?

Because the founding fathers decided to grant impeachment powers to Congress instead of newspaper readers.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:37 PM on May 18, 2017 [25 favorites]

Can someone explain why Comey needs to testify before Congress if he has a story to tell? Why not write an editorial in the newspaper?

A) Popcorn requires video.
B) Endless loops of damning soundbites.
C) Why not do both? He kind of already is.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:37 PM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

Can someone explain why Comey needs to testify before Congress if he has a story to tell?

Newspaper editorials aren't statements under oath, for one thing. For another, should there be impeachable offences arising out of Trump's actions, it's Congress that does that...so Comey testifying before Congress now may lay groundwork for whatever comes out of Mueller's investigation.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 7:39 PM on May 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

One theme of today I want to highlight is people manipulating others in the government through the media. A few examples off the top of my head:

That Foreign Policy article about the "'ludicrous' revenge plan" is all about some officials preventing the White House from leaking damaging information by leaking the plot ahead of time, thus ensuring the attack will fail if attempted.

The Benjamin Wittes article features a parting shot at Rosenstein that, when combined with Lawfare's comments on Rosenstein over the past week, are all designed around trying to encourage him to put his integrity above protecting Trump.

The Putin pays Trump tape seems like a deliberate leak from somebody on the right (*cough* Egg? Him? *cough*) to try to goad the GOP leadership into taking some kind of action.

The Trump wants to bring Flynn back story reads as an attempt by his staff to stop hum by telling him through the press what a terrible idea this is.

This is an increasingly sophisticated tactic. The goal of these leaks aren't just to inform, blow the whistle, or advance a particular faction's agenda, but rather to manipulate the President or other figures into taking certain actions. I suspect we're going to see a lot more of this.

p.s. If you think it's a slow news day, go back and read this morning's article on 18+ undisclosed contacts with the Russians. That's a really big thing. And the fact that we know that, that every contact is being carefully analyzed, is important.
posted by zachlipton at 7:41 PM on May 18, 2017 [90 favorites]

Also, pardons only apply to federal crimes, right? So his staff could still face state prosecution, though I suppose it would shield them from anything done in Washington, DC.

I don't know about that; Washington, DC is its own quasi-state-like jurisdiction as well. It would seem to me they could be prosecuted for violations of the DC Code, too.
posted by CommonSense at 7:42 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Can someone explain why Comey needs to testify before Congress if he has a story to tell? Why not write an editorial in the newspaper?

Another reason: He gets to swear under oath that what he says is true. Anyone trying to answer his accusations has to do it under oath as well, or they'll be accused of not being willing to risk prosecution over it. It's a way to use the Institutional Power of the Law to bolster his position.
posted by persona at 7:51 PM on May 18, 2017 [13 favorites]

In which FCC Commissioner Mike O’Rielly (he voted against anything you would want if you're not a big ISP) claims he never saw reporter John Donnelly being assaulted by FCC security as he tried to ask him a question, and offers the excuse that he was "freezing and starving." He apologizes, but notably doesn't say he'll investigate or do anything.
posted by zachlipton at 7:52 PM on May 18, 2017 [11 favorites]

Can someone explain why Comey needs to testify before Congress if he has a story to tell?

In addition to reasons already stated, if, hypothetically, he should develop a mysterious allergy to something radioactive and die in the near future, testimony in the Congressional record is much stronger than something written in a newspaper.
posted by Candleman at 7:53 PM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

frecklefaerie: "Also, with Chaffetz's resignation... Since the term just started, doesn't that mean it's a special election, not that a replacement is appointed?"

House vacancies *always* require special elections to fill, per Article I, Section 2 of the Constitution. Only Senate seats can be filled by appointment.

What the Utah governor and legislature are fighting about is the very vague guidance current state law gives for scheduling and participation in a special election. This stuff is up to the states.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:54 PM on May 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

BillMoyers.com: How Do We Stop Trump? The Founding Fathers Gave Us a Tool for That (video & article) - "Partisans' failure to impeach previous administrations sent a signal that lawlessness could continue unabated."

Almost 10 years ago Bill Moyers Journal hosted a freewheeling discussion about impeachment with conservative scholar (and Clinton impeachment article author) Bruce Fein and John Nichols of The Nation. The impetus was a newly released poll that showed some 45 percent of Americans favored starting the impeachment process for President Bush and Vice President Cheney.

... Fein and Nichols were clear about the proper use of impeachment — not as a bludgeon or an axe striking off the head of state — but as a cure for what ails a very troubled executive.

We asked John Nichols for his perspective on this video [an excerpt from the full discussion], given our current political situation. This is what he had to say:
"Those of us who have for many years worried about the imperial presidency regularly warn that an absence of checks and balances will, invariably, lead to the expansion of presidential powers.

Impeachment is an essential check and balance — arguably the most essential, and powerful, if the process is completed with the resignation or formal removal of an errant official. When members of the legislative branch fail to initiate the impeachment process for reasons of political calculation of circumstantial caution, they contribute to the expansion of executive branch authority. Partisans can almost always come up with excuses for avoiding the impeachment process. But when they do, they set the stage for future abuses. In effect, they encourage the imperial presidency to become more imperial.

... citizens should be concerned and engaged. The founding generation created the impeachment power to guard against the development of an regal presidency. The presidency we have now is dangerously regal; more authoritarian than responsive, more monarchical than democratic. This is the realization of the worst fears of Thomas Paine and the wiser of those who gathered in 1787. As such, we have a duty to do more than merely hold Donald Trump to account. Our duty now is to restore a proper balance to the governing of a nation that was never supposed to have an imperial president — or the threats that extend from the royal scam."

posted by ZeusHumms at 8:05 PM on May 18, 2017 [10 favorites]

Re: BOOM.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:06 PM on May 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

speaking of leaks, it looks like the pence faction is doing a full-court press to establish a counternarrative where he's out of the loop

CNN: Pence is a loyal soldier, but news cycle is wearing on him

The Pence team knew what they were getting themselves into when they joined the Trump ticket and team almost a year ago.
"We certainly knew we needed to be prepared for the unconventional," but, the source adds, "not to this extent."
Pence is slated to deliver seven speeches over the next four days, including the Notre Dame commencement address this weekend. He spoke to the US Chamber of Commerce as well on Thursday in Washington.
The aide does add, though, that the Vice President spent some time Wednesday in the West Wing in meetings with staff.
Even before the Comey memo dropped, this adviser remarked to CNN on whether Pence would make any explanatory statements about the meeting between Trump and Russian Ambassador to the US Sergey Kislyak: "I certainly hope not."
The source added that it didn't make sense for the vice president to insert himself into the narrative -- a distancing of sorts after he reiterated seven times last week to Capitol Hill reporters that the President fired FBI Director James Comey on a recommendation from the deputy attorney general.

posted by murphy slaw at 8:07 PM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

The Comey video with the context of him trying to hide from Trump by blending with the curtains and failing has broken me. I can't stop laughing at the whole awkward mess. It's absurd.
posted by Jalliah at 8:07 PM on May 18, 2017 [18 favorites]

Grist: An unlikely resistance surges against Trump’s clean water threats

By targeting specific regional efforts alongside more general environmental justice funding, the Trump administration might have inadvertently given opponents a means to fight back — and sparked unlikely alliances. It’s hard to imagine [Ohio Senator Rob] Portman making a stink over the elimination of [the Office of Environmental Justice]. But take Great Lakes money away, and he’s ready for a fight. So are other red state Republicans who recognize the value of local watersheds.

posted by ZeusHumms at 8:10 PM on May 18, 2017 [18 favorites]

It just occurred to me that of course if Trump has vision problems, Comey would know about it. Blending into the curtains at that distance may have been a perfectly reasonable strategy. Certainly, given the alternative of warmly greeting Trump, I would have tried something too.
posted by meinvt at 8:11 PM on May 18, 2017 [19 favorites]

Just wait until GOP senators start trying to give Comey a hard time, and he takes off his coat and shirt and turns around to reveal the giant, intimidating eyespots on his shoulderblades.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:13 PM on May 18, 2017 [34 favorites]

It’s hard to imagine [Ohio Senator Rob] Portman making a stink over the elimination of [the Office of Environmental Justice]. But take Great Lakes money away, and he’s ready for a fight. So are other red state Republicans who recognize the value of local watersheds.

GIMBY: Greed In My Back Yard.
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:13 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Man, "red state Republicans" recognizing a thing has value and trying to save it. What a strange place the world has become.
posted by Artw at 8:14 PM on May 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

It's a boom, damn it, it just didn't look like it from inside the MF bubble because we're already convinced Trump's going down.
posted by Coventry at 8:15 PM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

when a fed asks you if the carpet matches the drapes, he's not making a creepy innuendo, he's just asking what color shoes he should wear for invisible times

hope ambling mantis James Comey has not inadvertently offended in the past due to misunderstandings of this nature

also hope he has a better wardrobe consultant nowadays because his suit was like two full shades too dark a blue for that trick to work. shameful tradecraft. if that's what you call it.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:15 PM on May 18, 2017 [20 favorites]

It's a boom, damn it, it just didn't look like it from inside the MF bubble because we're already convinced Trump's going down.

We're really not.
posted by Artw at 8:16 PM on May 18, 2017 [20 favorites]

Alternet.org: Elizabeth Warren Loses It with Steve Mnuchin Over His 'Orwellian Doublespeak' on Bank Reform -

During his testimony at Thursday's Senate Banking Committee's hearing on Domestic and International Policy Update, Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin insisted the Trump administration never intended to break up big banks, despite its prior messaging. That didn't sit well with Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA), a long-time critic of Wall Street's "rigged" game.

Video - "What do you think Glass-Stegall was?"
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:17 PM on May 18, 2017 [40 favorites]

So Rob Portman and co. do the right thing for (arguably) the wrong reason and the net result is protecting the Great Lakes from this administration? I'm cool with that.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 8:18 PM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

> "We certainly knew we needed to be prepared for the unconventional," but, the source adds, "not to this extent."

"We knew we were joining a ticket with a face-eating leopard, but we didn't expect him to eat our faces."
posted by tonycpsu at 8:18 PM on May 18, 2017 [29 favorites]

If things heat up enough, it might be in Trump's best interest to have Flynn turn on Pence, allowing Trump to appoint a new VP that people wouldn't want to replace Trump

Fortunately for us Congress has the job of replacing VP because if it was left up to Trump it would be somebody vile with ties to Russia....somebody like Sheriff David Clarke.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:19 PM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

I think it's a boom though not an in your face one. This is setting a whole lot up. It's letting people in on Comey's mindset and why he recorded everything in such detail.
And the curtain thing is not only black humor funny it's humanizing. If the comments I've been reading elsewhere are any indication people are relating big time to his awkward curtain hiding. I think the curtain thing is going to stick around and not in a bad way. Headlines are about the curtain hiding. Trump will hate this.
posted by Jalliah at 8:28 PM on May 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

Hiding in front of curtains vs. hiding in the bushes
posted by blakewest at 8:30 PM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

wow, good thing i looked at joe lieberman's wiki page a couple of days ago

Someone edited Wikipedia to remove Trump from Joe Lieberman's law firm's list of clients. Check out the same acct's last edit, 1 of 2 others
-- Lachlan Markay

posted by murphy slaw at 8:33 PM on May 18, 2017 [54 favorites]

Fortunately for us Congress has the job of replacing VP

Thank god we have a Congress known for its wise and rational non-partisan decision making.
posted by Justinian at 8:34 PM on May 18, 2017 [10 favorites]

The Portman thing was utterly predictable. If you go back to the threads where the idea of cutting environmental funding around the great lakes was first mentioned, I guarantee folks discussed how deeply unpopular that would be even with conservative midwesterners. Not just because those projects represent thousands of jobs, but because it's real to people. Folks in Ohio still remember when the Cuyahoga caught on fire.
posted by Emily's Fist at 8:35 PM on May 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

Does Illuminati! have a Donald Trump card? I can't remember and the internet is not being helpful.

My apologies for the tiny card game derail, but there is no Trump in INWO. The game came out in 1995, after all, when he was just a New York real estate developer. Some personalities in the game have largely faded from public view: while Vladimir Zhironofsky was considered a bugaboo at the time, you don't hear his name much anymore. A glance at Wikipedia reveals he is forgotten but not gone, still active in politics, and indeed still as visionary as ever:

In September 2016, inspired by Donald Trump's signature proposal, he proposed building a border wall and banning Muslims from entering Russia.

posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:40 PM on May 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

The more I think about the boom, the more I think it's good strategy. The revelations felt kinda... soft? I mean, massive in any other context, but, well, would that we were in those nicer realities. And they felt soft because they're all very subjective, all Comey said, Comey felt, Comey worried about... not a smoking gun.

But it perfectly sets up the administration to bite on the irresistible bait of attacking Comey himself and his subjective view of the situation, which is bad optics for them because he's built up a lot of good will and a meticulously crafted nonpartisan image and it makes the firing look even more personal and unjustified, while it's a good bet Comey can counter with objective facts which they won't be prepared for.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:41 PM on May 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

It's a trap!
posted by Jalliah at 8:44 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

A VP only has one substantial job,(1) to be the first in line in Presidential succession. It's not very onerous but it carries the expectation that the VP could take over if necessary. Has anyone asked Pence why he shouldn't resign, given that he's shown to be demonstrably unfit by his claim that he knew nothing about Flynn and didn't ask questions or read his own mail?

(1) i.e. not counting being the formal Presiding Officer of the US Senate
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:24 PM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

The Comey video with the context of him trying to hide from Trump by blending with the curtains and failing has broken me.

In addition to hiding, it looks like he's standing as far away from Trump as is physically possible.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:26 PM on May 18, 2017 [22 favorites]

(If we survive long enough) for the movie/tv series I think they have to go with Colin Hanks on stilts to play Comey.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:30 PM on May 18, 2017 [11 favorites]

A VP only has one substantial job,(1) to be the first in line in Presidential succession.

Pence has had to tie break multiple times already this term.
posted by Talez at 9:34 PM on May 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

James Comey: Master Spy!

*80s VHS scenewipe*

*James Comey standing in the corner of a room with a lampshade on his head*
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:34 PM on May 18, 2017 [34 favorites]

So anyway, it made me realize that for every one of us who are spending every night glued to Twitter, there are probably two people who don't have any idea about any of it. I'm not sure what to make of that!

Oh god, this. I keep talking to people casually on the outside about this up to the minute stuff and they keep giving me weird looks. Even normally politically connected people. I think in this case only the hive mind can understand how insane this presidency is.
posted by corb at 9:48 PM on May 18, 2017 [45 favorites]

It's a boom, damn it, it just didn't look like it from inside the MF bubble because we're already convinced Trump's going down.

Some of us believe that. Others believe he could finish one our more terms. In short, Metafilter, land, contrasts.
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:48 PM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

Radley Balko puts together a nice dossier on Sheriff Clarke over at the Post.

nothing new here, but seeing it all in one place is a nice reminder of the profound lack of judgement required to nominate this guy to clean toilets, let alone a post in homeland security.
posted by murphy slaw at 9:50 PM on May 18, 2017 [17 favorites]

"being from the southwest, if I were to expect someone to just be clueless and be proud of their gold-plated toilet, it'd be someone from around this part of the country, not someone within the monied class of New York City. That Trump is this way and has existed within that milieu has to be singularly significant. You'd really have to work hard to be as maladroit within that subculture as Trump is, given so many examples of what's socially acceptable that constantly surround him."

Queens trying to impress Manhattan, all the way down.

"Pence is slated to deliver seven speeches over the next four days, including the Notre Dame commencement address this weekend. "

FFFFFFFUUUUUUUU

If I hadn't already withdrawn my alumni donations over opposing the ACA ...
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:16 PM on May 18, 2017 [11 favorites]

>>He's scared of stairs.

>Seriously?

This is a real thing in that it's really something people have speculated about, but it's uncertain whether it's a thing that is true.

As has been mentioned earlier, the loss of coordination associated with a number of neurodegenerative diseases can result in an avoidance of slopes and stairs by those affected. You can find photos of Trump holding the hand or arm of people next to him that you . . . wouldn't expect (Theresa May, most famously). I strongly doubt it's from a deep affection for those he's relying on.

Full disclosure: I've been 100% on "Early-Stage Alzheimer's" since learning his dad died from it.
posted by Anonymous at 10:31 PM on May 18, 2017

WaPo summarizes the last 24 hours of bombshells.

This is appropriate, my current visual metaphor for the White House is that speculative 1950's spaceship design that propels itself at increasingly rapid speeds by hucking a succession of nukes out the back and riding the blastwave with a pusher plate.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 11:00 PM on May 18, 2017 [14 favorites]

Not sure if we saw this earlier: Behind closed doors, Al Franken, Kirsten Gillibrand blast Rosenstein for withholding information
posted by Chrysostom at 11:00 PM on May 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

my current visual metaphor for the White House is that speculative 1950's spaceship design that propels itself at increasingly rapid speeds by hucking a succession of nukes out the back and riding the blastwave with a pusher plate.

Don't give them any ideas.
posted by arcolz at 11:01 PM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

ELECTIONS NEWS

** VA Gov:

-- New WP poll finds Dem race near tied. Perriello 40 / Northam 38

** MT-AL special:

-- Quist has raised $1.7M in the last two weeks, $5M total.
-- Sabato has moved race from Likely R to Leans R.
--

** GA-06 special

-- House Majority PAC with additional $500K TV buy and $200K GOTV.
-- Sabato has this one as Toss-Up.

FWIW (i.e., not much), what I'm gleaning is that people are suspecting the current status is a very narrow lead for Ossoff in GA-06, and Quist trailing in MT-AL by 2 or 3. Both could still go either way, without a doubt.

Sorry, didn't do the links today
posted by Chrysostom at 11:03 PM on May 18, 2017 [51 favorites]

Thank you for the round up!
posted by gofargogo at 11:07 PM on May 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

WP says one of Comey's many chatty associates referred to his perpetration for conversations with the president as a murder board, replacing "contemporaneous memo" as my favorite phrase of the week.
posted by longtime_lurker at 11:48 PM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

Stocks Surged as Trading Floors Watched ‘Breaking’ InfoWars Video. It Was Two Weeks Old, and Wrong.

Because of course in 2017 the global finance system runs on rumors from the man who thinks the Louvre is a giant illuminati pyramid..
posted by Buntix at 12:02 AM on May 19, 2017 [54 favorites]

Stock traders actually read nutter site ZeroHedge?

We're all going to die.
posted by Yowser at 12:12 AM on May 19, 2017 [23 favorites]

So America's economy is essentially being run by a stock market full of idiots/crooks. Which explains why it didn't collapse when the America's Biggest Business Idiot/Crook was elected President.
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:30 AM on May 19, 2017 [18 favorites]

Just so y'all know: I'm deeply grateful for these threads and your contributions. I'm a Native American atheist and I'm burning sage every day and praying to the Creator for us. I should be asleep but I stay up reading these threads because it gives me hope, and life and a reason to get up at 6am and go to work. Thank you all for your brilliance and your genius commentary. I don't know what I'd do without you!
posted by blessedlyndie at 1:25 AM on May 19, 2017 [133 favorites]

Guess who's getting out the broom closet: Swedish prosecutors drop investigation into Wikileaks founder Julian Assange over rape allegation
posted by PenDevil at 2:20 AM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

What a coincidence.
posted by hawthorne at 2:24 AM on May 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

Every day, I have a moment--usually several of them--where I just kind of stop dead and think "supposed adults elected Trump as president because they're racist, sexist fucks".

I don't really know what to do with that.

I'm 50, and not particularly bright, but am unfortunately bright enough to be painfully, painfully aware how fucking ridiculous humans are--and not ridiculous in a lovable way, either. It's ennui all the way down out here.

I try to make a list of great humans, and usually make it as far as

The dog train brothers
The people who run old friends senior dog sanctuary

And then I start doodling.

I bet Trump hates dogs.
posted by maxwelton at 2:25 AM on May 19, 2017 [26 favorites]

Reading the leopard/face comments always makes me smile in a grim sort of way, and I recently read this very short story (called The Débutante, by Leonora Carrington) in a collection edited by Angela Carter, which is a strange tale about a hyena which carefully eats off someone's face for a very good reason
posted by Myeral at 2:40 AM on May 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

I bet Trump hates dogs.

"Watch them start to choke like dogs," Trump says, watching Yates & Clapper. "They are desperate for breath." [Time]

Now, I'm not saying that's someone that hates dogs...but I'm not saying it isn't.
posted by jaduncan at 3:31 AM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

Now, I'm not saying that's someone that hates dogs...but I'm not saying it isn't.

I was going to say, "Now all we need is someone to leak a video of his choking a dog," but that would require harm to a dog so no.

And goddamn how does it even occur to a brain to say something like that Time quote...
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 3:51 AM on May 19, 2017

It occurs to the mouth to say stuff like that. That's part of the problem.
posted by Namlit at 3:59 AM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

Every day, I have a moment--usually several of them--where I just kind of stop dead and think "supposed adults elected Trump as president because they're racist, sexist fucks".

I don't really know what to do with that.

In our household it's been bombshells of rage and grief since my parents individually expressed their affinity for Trump, despite belonging to a demographic that the GOP wouldn't give a shit about. They were not always the narcissistic, whining, racist, sexist conspiracy-theory nuts who baffle us on a daily basis now. I don't know what happened while I was away on my own and just wish there were some de-programming cure.

The one relief is that they can't vote. But nothing will undo the shock and loss of esteem that I had for them as family, and it's sad that this will last beyond this administration.
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 4:09 AM on May 19, 2017 [43 favorites]

Here's a very helpful breakdown of what Pence, Ryan, and McConnell knew and when they knew it. It will be hard for them to credibly deny knowledge when it all comes down.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 4:31 AM on May 19, 2017 [18 favorites]

You're not the only one in that situation. I've seen a number of things like this since Ailes died: https://twitter.com/christianmccrea/status/865414566494093312

The same thing happened to my father, who was always a conservative--and a racist, but I repeat myself--but descended into conspiracy-spewing full-time hate and fear during the Obama years. (This definitely coincided with Fox News running on his TV 24/7, but I wasn't around enough to know if the Fox led to the descent or the descent led to the Fox.) The Republicans and their propaganda machine have absolutely destroyed the internal lives of a lot of gullible and/or desperate people in order to create the kind of sustained furor they need to keep getting elected despite their small base of supporters.
posted by IAmUnaware at 4:35 AM on May 19, 2017 [62 favorites]

Sockin'inthefreeworld: I don't know about your family but the similar cases I know were basically radicalized by increasingly turning to Fox News and, later, Facebook for news. It started getting bad during the Bush era where nobody wanted to hear that we'd made a big mistake and got worse until the world they think they live in is almost unrecognizable. The corrosive effects are hard to underestimate and it's painful watching formerly decent people start reacting in fear and spouting casual racism because that's been normalized where they spend their time.
posted by adamsc at 4:40 AM on May 19, 2017 [21 favorites]

Fox News did to the Boomers what the Boomers said video games would do to us.
posted by Faint of Butt at 4:40 AM on May 19, 2017 [246 favorites]

Oh boy. For my birthday, he's in Israel.
What could go wrong there?
I'll have to think about my cake...
posted by MtDewd at 4:41 AM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

Oh boy. For my birthday, he's in Israel.
What could go wrong there?

Kushner can try to explain to Bibi that they just sold $11 billion worth of weapons to the Saudis.
posted by PenDevil at 4:44 AM on May 19, 2017 [28 favorites]

Guess who's getting out the broom closet: Swedish prosecutors drop investigation into Wikileaks founder Julian Assange over rape allegation

Ironically, it has been pointed out that Assange would have been safer from extradition to the US in Sweden than in the UK or Australia.

If he does end up in US custody soon, could he be dragged into the looming inquiries about Russian influence in elections?
posted by acb at 5:01 AM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

> Kushner can try to explain to Bibi that they just sold $11 billion worth of weapons to the Saudis.

That's $110 billion, according to the NYT
posted by stonepharisee at 5:03 AM on May 19, 2017 [18 favorites]

That's $110 billion, according to the NYT

Oh great, so when $75 million worth of guns and ammunition disappear it'll be even less of an accounting issue.
posted by PenDevil at 5:07 AM on May 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

My parents confuse me as they didn't fit a lot of the "profile"--they're anti-war, anti-gun, anti-Church/religion/evangelism, anti-Dubya, non-white, pro-universal-healthcare but anti-Obamacare (?); they're capable of empathy...they don't watch Fox (and English is definitely not their native language)...

Oh well. I've been turning this over in my head, hoping that identifying the cause would help think of a way back to sanity, but it seems from all those tweets that this is a permanent condition.
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 5:08 AM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

Asked about a potential conflict with Chaffetz during a press conference Thursday, Speaker Paul Ryan demurred, saying he had not yet heard the news that Chaffetz planned to leave June 30 for Fox.

--from a Politico article about Jason Chaffetz

Man, P Ryan and Pence are running neck and neck in the race to be crowned "The Man Who Knew Too Little." When asked, Ryan has never seen the speech or read the tweet or heard the information in question because apparently he is much too busy to keep abreast of politics. Pence, on the other hand, had no clue as to what was happening on the transition team he was heading. Too busy making sure he didn't make eye contact with any women not Mother, I guess.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:15 AM on May 19, 2017 [18 favorites]

What I still don't understand is how so many of these guys (Pence, Flynn, Sessions, for example) didn't think they'd get caught. I get that Trump is unintelligent, uninformed, and narcissistic and can easily see why he would think he either wouldn't get caught or could just bluster his way out of it, protected by his popularity. But what were all these other guys thinking?
posted by Waiting for Pierce Inverarity at 5:15 AM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

Because there's a pretty good chance that there will no consequences for them. Pence and Sessions especially. Flynn might have to take one for the team.
posted by rdr at 5:20 AM on May 19, 2017 [11 favorites]

re Assange: "If he were to return to Sweden before the statute of limitation on this case expires in August 2020, the preliminary investigation could be resumed."

The investigation is being dropped, according to Sweden, purely because they are unable to make progress and they don't want to keep an open case on the books.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 5:26 AM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

no matter how much of an idiot they might think trump is, the world still knows what side their nukes are buttered on:

AP: Worldwide effort set to keep Trump happy on 1st trip abroad

Trump’s hosts on his upcoming trip are well-aware of his aversion to travel and are trying to make accommodations to keep him happy.

In Saudi Arabia, people with knowledge of the planning for Trump’s trip say the caterers are planning to offer the president steak and ketchup alongside the lamb and hefty portions of rice on the menu. All the meat will have been butchered in a Shariah-compliant halal manner as per Islamic custom.

our president is a spoiled eight-year old who makes his parents eat every meal at mcdonalds on their trip to france.
posted by murphy slaw at 5:28 AM on May 19, 2017 [111 favorites]

I can't shake the worry that we're reading too much slam-dunk hopes into the Mueller investigation and Comey memo. I want to think Mueller et al wouldn't embark on the investigation this way unless it seemed worthwhile and consequential, but what do I know.

Can someone weigh in with reasoned thoughts on the chances that it's going to end up being a nothingburger? In which case the whole affair will be extra-whitewashed because of the independent reputation Mueller and Comey have...
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 5:29 AM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

I'm not sure it'll be easy to distinguish a real, competent investigation from a nothingburger. Presumably we won't hear anything out of the investigation for a long time (year+ ?).
posted by ryanrs at 5:32 AM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

This made me almost spit out my coffee:

AP Worldwide effort set to keep Trump happy on 1st trip abroad

When President Donald Trump sits down for dinner in Saudi Arabia, caterers have ensured that his favorite meal - steak with a side of ketchup - will be offered alongside the traditional local cuisine.

This is unbelievable to me. This is the way you treat a child.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:32 AM on May 19, 2017 [66 favorites]

Oh boy. ... in Israel.
What could go wrong there?

For one thing, basic geography and its implications. After, say, being driven 45 minutes from the airport up to Jerusalem, and later one hour and a bit back to central Tel Aviv, he hears someone mention that Golan is, like, a little more than 2 hours by car from there and he asks, 'why do we quarrel about such a tiny country', shrugs and takes his plane back home, to never think about the Middle East again.
posted by Namlit at 5:34 AM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

NY Times Tips for Leaders Meeting Trump: Keep It Short and Give Him a Win

After four months of interactions between Mr. Trump and his counterparts, foreign officials and their Washington consultants say certain rules have emerged: Keep it short — no 30-minute monologue for a 30-second attention span. Do not assume he knows the history of the country or its major points of contention. Compliment him on his Electoral College victory. Contrast him favorably with President Barack Obama. Do not get hung up on whatever was said during the campaign. Stay in regular touch. Do not go in with a shopping list but bring some sort of deal he can call a victory. [my bold]

Fuckin hell. I'm so embarrassed.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:36 AM on May 19, 2017 [110 favorites]

Can someone weigh in with reasoned thoughts on the chances that it's going to end up being a nothingburger?

there's no way to give percentages on how this works out. this is a legal matter, not an election. it is not amenable to statistical analysis.

i think we have to be prepared for this to go on much, much longer than we hope. trump stuck it out in the general election after several scandals that would have led someone with more shame to pack it all in. there's no way out for him without massive ego damage that he would find intolerable. he's going to be in angry bear mode more and more often as the investigation closes in.

the only thing we can do now is continue to put pressure on lawmakers, support the media outlets that are holding the administration to task, and keep preparing for the 2018 election.
posted by murphy slaw at 5:37 AM on May 19, 2017 [12 favorites]

The fact that the NYT is publishing "How To Manipulate Our Child President" means we are so far into the dark timeline they have decided America being taken for a ride is worth it as long as he doesn't start a war.
posted by corb at 5:39 AM on May 19, 2017 [38 favorites]

He's really going to become presidential on this trip.
posted by Artw at 5:40 AM on May 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

Another quote from the NY Times:

Ms. Merkel has also learned the value of simply staying in touch. While her meeting at the White House with Mr. Trump included an awkward photo opportunity that suggested coolness, she has kept in regular contact. When she planned to travel to Saudi Arabia last month, she called Mr. Trump first, ostensibly to ask his advice — counsel that after 12 years in office she hardly needed from a diplomatic novice.

Sigh. She has no doubt had to deal with worse things in her long political career but the idea that the most powerful woman on Earth had to allow Trump to mansplain something to her so she could keep the relationship between our two countries good makes me tired and angry. I wish everyone would stop treating him with kid gloves and let him fail.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:40 AM on May 19, 2017 [188 favorites]

he's going to really become president on the day he perforates his colon because he hasn't taken a shit in nine days.
posted by murphy slaw at 5:42 AM on May 19, 2017 [26 favorites]

Is there any chance the cable news wonks won't seize on the smallest opportunity to say "Trump has really become Presidential on this trip"?
posted by wabbittwax at 5:45 AM on May 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

Fuckin hell. I'm so embarrassed.

GWB: Heh, Americans sure felt ashamed when I was president, heh.
Trump: Hold my ketchup.
posted by uncleozzy at 5:47 AM on May 19, 2017 [44 favorites]

They're going to say it if he remains upright and unspeaking for any length of time at this point.
posted by Artw at 5:47 AM on May 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

Vicente Fox is still at it on Twitter:

#trump free advice from your MX amigo:
. Stay at the WH
. Keep your mouth shut!!
. Respect the other
. Forget Fucken Wall.
Thanks & Saludos
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:53 AM on May 19, 2017 [90 favorites]

I had wondered about the Kushners traveling on the Sabbath so I found this:

The Times of Israel: Ivanka and Jared ‘get rabbinic permission to fly on Shabbat’

Jewish law does not permit travelling on the Sabbath except in cases where there is a danger of risk to life. So, for example, Jewish doctors and medical personnel are permitted to drive to seriously ill patients as are soldiers protecting the country’s security.

The president had given Jared the task of trying to broker a peace agreement between Israel and the Palestinians, so he may play a senior advisory role in Trump’s Middle East visit.

So I guess the vital role that Jared plays in brokering Peace in the Middle East is the excuse? However it is notable that The Kushners also got "rabbinic permission" to travel on Inauguration Day and then there is this "emergency":

In October, Kushner spent part of a Shabbat huddled with his father-in-law and other advisers amid the fallout from a scandal in which Trump was heard making lewd comments about women, according to The New York Times.

Then there is this description from Ivanka's new book:

“From sundown Friday to Saturday night, my family and I observe the Shabbat,” she wrote. “During this time, we disconnect completely — no emails, no TV, no phone calls, no Internet. We enjoy uninterrupted time together and it’s wonderful.

“It’s enormously important to unplug and devote that time to each other,” she wrote. “We enjoy long meals together, we read, we take walks in the city, we nap, and just hang out.”

She makes it sound like a vacation. How nice for her.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:53 AM on May 19, 2017 [24 favorites]

There's an entire series of attack ads / counter campaigns against Ryan and Pence based on their complete lack of situational awareness if they keep using that as their "no comment" excuse.

Would you want a house rep who didn't follow the news?

Granted the Trumpkins have all tuned out the "bad news" already also, so ther voting base is also in that state of denial about reality.
posted by mrzarquon at 5:57 AM on May 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

Apparently, Dana Rohrabacher was warned by the FBI that Russian spies were actively recruiting him. Since he wasn't aware, Rep. Rohrabacher was most likely in the "useful idiot" column of the asset spreadsheet.
posted by xyzzy at 5:58 AM on May 19, 2017 [34 favorites]

Well now Ivanka is mashed up in my head with Walter Sobchak.
"I'm shomer fucking shabbas, Dad!"
posted by wabbittwax at 5:59 AM on May 19, 2017 [15 favorites]

Every time someone waxes about Trump being "presidential" I'm reminded of Simon Foster's rant from In The Loop:

No, you're right, I'm being unfair. I should be thanking you for not throwing up. Well done, you're a star. You didn't wet yourself, did you? You're in the right city. You didn't say anything overtly racist. You didn't pull your dick out and start plucking it and shouting "Willy Banjo". No, I'm being really unfair. You got so much right.

Except, of course, this dressing-down was directed at an intern, not the POTUS, and I'm not sure we can count on him not saying anything overtly racist.
posted by Westringia F. at 5:59 AM on May 19, 2017 [14 favorites]

At least Ivanka is using this trip as an opportunity to speak out in support of women's rights in Saudi -- what? Oh, she hasn't been seen since the shit started to hit the fan? Never mind, then.

Fuckin hell. I'm so embarrassed.

I meet a lot of tourists in my neighborhood, often when they're coming straight from the airport. I talk to people from around the world, and if they are from another country, I apologize for Trump. I remind them more people voted for Hillary, and no, we don't get it, either. I've never had a single person attempt to support trump or in any way reject my apology.

On preview, fuck you, Ivanka.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:00 AM on May 19, 2017 [18 favorites]

Except it seems he was warned and joined the recruitment anyway. Kind of takes you out of the useful idiot category.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:00 AM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

I want to feel sure about Mueller and the outcome, but I recall the disappointment of Fitzmas

I have had to confront the fact that I loathe a broad category of people I.e., Republicans. Which unfortunately includes members of my family. I miss the days, no years, of profound belief in my fellow Americans. These times. These times. *sigh*
posted by jadepearl at 6:00 AM on May 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

So I guess the vital role that Jared plays in brokering Peace in the Middle East is the excuse?

Medical Caretakers.
posted by mikelieman at 6:01 AM on May 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

Except it seems he was warned and joined the recruitment anyway. Kind of takes you out of the useful idiot category.

the best asset is the one you pay and give marching orders to who still doesn't realize they're an asset
posted by murphy slaw at 6:04 AM on May 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

But what were all these other guys thinking?

That they'll control the DOJ and the Republican Party has never once held anyone accountable for anything, ever? Still seems like a really good bet, even now.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:04 AM on May 19, 2017 [10 favorites]

She makes it sound like a vacation. How nice for her.

If your childhood consisted of playing the claw machines in Daddy's casino and getting a guard to unlock them and let you pick out the toy you were entitled to, this is what spirituality looks like.
posted by acb at 6:04 AM on May 19, 2017 [59 favorites]

On preview, fuck you, Ivanka.

There is some question as to whether or not Melania and Ivanka will be a.) wearing a veil in Saudi Arabia and b.) going to the men's section of the Western Wall with the rest of their party.

Jake Turx, senior White House Correspondent for Orthodox Ami Magazine (he’s the Jewish reporter that Trump barked at during an early press conference in February) claimed on Twitter that “Israeli sources” told him that the president intends to bring his wife and daughter into the men’s section.

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:06 AM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

I've been thinking this for a while, but why the fuck can't we demand that our elected representatives take at least the same number of security/espionage trainings that a fucking private in the military does? "Hey, people will want to find out about the knowledge you have/want to influence you, so maybe be suspicious for five seconds?"
posted by corb at 6:06 AM on May 19, 2017 [49 favorites]

told him that the president intends to bring his wife and daughter into the men’s section.

HA! hahahahahahahahaha! That is most definitely NOT going to happen. I was teargassed and taken to jail in Jerusalem for PRAYING OUT LOUD IN THE WOMEN'S SECTION with other women!!! There is no fucking way they are going to let him do that. Call it another Masada for 45.
posted by Sophie1 at 6:11 AM on May 19, 2017 [82 favorites]

In our household it's been bombshells of rage and grief since my parents individually expressed their affinity for Trump, despite belonging to a demographic that the GOP wouldn't give a shit about. They were not always the narcissistic, whining, racist, sexist conspiracy-theory nuts who baffle us on a daily basis now. I don't know what happened while I was away on my own and just wish there were some de-programming cure.

It's baffling to me as well. One of the problems (and IMO part of the answer to the "what happened?" question) is that the Trumpkins that I know of get all of their news from Fox and/or right wing talk radio, which they just accept as gospel without questioning and thinking it through at all. I get the impression that these folks think that questioning authority = disloyalty = being unpatriotic.
posted by jazzbaby at 6:11 AM on May 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

Vox on Mensch, Taylor, Schindler, and Palmer:

Democrats are falling for fake news about Russia
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:14 AM on May 19, 2017 [11 favorites]

Democrats are falling for fake news about Russia

as much as this is true, and it pains me, it's still better than republicans falling for fox propaganda about everything in the entire world.
posted by murphy slaw at 6:15 AM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

Is Mensch even a "liberal?"
posted by drezdn at 6:17 AM on May 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

Is Mensch even a "liberal?"

She thinks BLM is Russian propaganda. And that the Russians meddled in the US election but they absolutely didn't in the Brexit vote.
posted by PenDevil at 6:20 AM on May 19, 2017 [22 favorites]

Man, IDK. Following someone on Twitter isn't the same thing as believing what they say and even on FB most of my friends ask "What do we think of this Mensch person?" before posting anything of hers (and the comments are full of "She's nuts, disregard").

Democratic fake news is less "making shit up out of whole cloth" and more "breathless, credulous reporting of what someone else has speculated." I do see stuff shared on FB from dodgy sites like Occupy Democrats and it's not really fake as much as emotionally heightened. Like, yeah, someone did really say a thing, but what they said was not really cause for a "BOOM! TAKE THAT, REPUBLICANS!!! NOW WE'RE ALL GOING TO BE SAVED!" headline.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:21 AM on May 19, 2017 [23 favorites]

I'm sort of tangentially aware of Mensch & Co. but I haven't seen this stuff bleeding into cable news in the same way Fox will run with a made-up story about a deceased DNC staffer for 12 hours. Please feel free to correct me if I've missed something.
posted by xyzzy at 6:22 AM on May 19, 2017 [13 favorites]

Is Mensch even a "liberal?"

she was a fucking Tory MP.

of course, now she has transcended the traditional conservative-liberal continuum and ascended to the higher plane of being occupied by frothing loons.
posted by murphy slaw at 6:22 AM on May 19, 2017 [30 favorites]

I'm sort of tangentially aware of Mensch & Co. but I haven't seen this stuff bleeding into cable news in the same way Fox will run with a made-up story about a deceased DNC staffer for 12 hours.

Fox had Kenneth Starr on this week talking about Vince Foster's "murder." He died in 1993. So make 12 hours 24 years.
posted by chris24 at 6:24 AM on May 19, 2017 [25 favorites]

Don't Believe That Pence Was "Out of the Loop" - Josh Marshall @ TPM

All of this tells me that Trump and his top people trust Pence to be in on the bad acts and the cover ups. We’ve seen him participate in them, again and again, with eyes wide open. Whether his knowledge of specific decisions can be proved is something we’ll only learn over time. But the ‘Pence was out of the loop’ line just doesn’t add up. It’s not credible.

posted by Barack Spinoza at 6:24 AM on May 19, 2017 [19 favorites]

Jake Turx strikes me as a particularly credulous reporter, or a man incapable of bias.

God knows I still wouldn't carry water for Trump after what he did to Turx. But he does him, I guess.
posted by Yowser at 6:26 AM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

The most interesting piece of that Josh Marshall blog is his repeated insistence that Pence is an experienced political operator who would fully grasp the stakes of a Comey firing and signed off on it anyway. If you accept that premise, then the only logical conclusion is that Mike Pence is deliberately sabotaging Donald Trump.
posted by xyzzy at 6:37 AM on May 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

Last night, Rachel Maddow did a thing on the many times Pence has been proven to falsely deny something. It felt to me a little bit like a preemptive take-down of our next president.
posted by AwkwardPause at 6:41 AM on May 19, 2017 [21 favorites]

Is Mensch even a "liberal?"

Not even close. She's a rightwinger, though one of the intellectually mendacious ones who cares more about getting a reaction than staking out and defending principles. Her current enterprise, Heat St. (a subsidiary of News Corp.) has been described as a “libertarian” web site.
posted by acb at 6:43 AM on May 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

then the only logical conclusion is that Mike Pence is deliberately sabotaging Donald Trump.

You may be correct, but let's not necessarily attribute to shrewdness what might be explained by stupidity. When Pence was in the House, his fellow Republicans nicknamed him Mike Dense.
posted by chris24 at 6:44 AM on May 19, 2017 [37 favorites]

Seems like whenever I do an "idly wondering" post, some major news breaks. So:

Idly wondering what some core Trumpers will think if there's another photo like this one, of GW Bush and Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah, except this time starring their fearless leader.

It's protocol, iirc, but does Trump even have anyone doing protocol? And if he did, what are the odds he'd do this? What about his reputed germaphobia? The mind reels.
posted by martin q blank at 6:44 AM on May 19, 2017 [6 favorites]

Mike Pence got his start as a conservative radio talk guy. He's basically if Sean Hannity were elected to office, but with a fake "Aw shucks" persona.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:56 AM on May 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

Democrats are falling for fake news about Russia

Mensch et al. are clearly actually working for the Russians, creating these ridiculous conspiracy theories to poison the well and provide chaff to hide the real conspiracies involving the Russian and U.S. executives.

This is obvious when you realise that reality is currently being scripted by the writing team behind 24 on the mother of all double meth (drinkable and crystal) benders.

In other news 894.1.PomegraneteDonkey.Θ.4501 is now a valid IPv4 address.
posted by Buntix at 6:57 AM on May 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

she was a fucking Tory MP.

of course, now she has transcended traditional the conservative-liberal continuum and ascended to the higher plane of being occupied by frothing loons.

Oh her. The name didn't ring a bell (I didn't click through on the link) until I read your description and knew exactly who that was.
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 6:57 AM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

Senate Democrats reject Lieberman for FBI director.

Confession time. Of all the reasons there are to dislike Lieberman, I have one that is just so damned petty that I usually don't bring it up, but I need to get it off my chest:

When he talks...you only ever see his bottom teeth.

It bugs the absolute hell out of me.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 6:58 AM on May 19, 2017 [23 favorites]

martin q blank: what are the odds he'd do this?

If there are stairs that he has to walk down: pretty good, I'd say.
posted by Too-Ticky at 6:59 AM on May 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

Mensch et al. are clearly actually working for the Russians

*clearly*
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 7:00 AM on May 19, 2017

[Reagan] managed to get past Iran-Contra by the skin of his teeth. Bush, Sr. was destroyed by his own party for raising taxes despite the fact that it was the right thing for the economy and the country.

Bush was also deeply involved in Iran-Contra and should've been impeached, too.

...the Vice President's "knowledge of the Iran Initiative appears generally to have been coterminous with that of President Reagan." Indeed, on the Iran-Contra operations overall, "it is quite clear that Mr. Bush attended most (although not quite all) of the key briefings and meetings in which Mr. Reagan participated, and therefore can be presumed to have known many of the Iran/Contra facts that the former President knew."

posted by kirkaracha at 7:01 AM on May 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

the president intends to bring his wife and daughter into the men’s section.

Chris Matthews Compares Trump to Woody Allen: ‘What’s Reality Ever Done for Me?’

Assailing the president on his administration’s concept of “alternative facts” with the Huffington Post’s Peter Emerson, Matthews said:

“The other day, I compared him to Woody Allen–who lives in his own world.

He’s a creative guy–knocks out a movie a year. Some of them are pretty good. Every year or so. But he always has a movie. But he once said, ‘What’s reality ever done for me?’

posted by Room 641-A at 7:03 AM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

If, by a combination of bombast, belligerence, and ignorance, Trump did bring Ivanka and Melania to the men's part of the Western Wall I'd probably cheer. The sheer mean spirited misogyny on display there revolts me to my very core and if it takes a fucking asshole moron like Trump to break that barrier I'd be forced to admit he (even if only by accident) did something right.

It won't happen of course. But I can dream.

I'd likewise be delighted if through that same combination of bombast, belligerence, and ignorance, Ivanka and Melania didn't wear head coverings while visiting the various misogynist countries on the trip. We've kowtowed **FAR** more than we ever should have to that evil bullshit. It isn't respecting local custom, it's allowing local evil to disrespect American women.

Again, I doubt it'll happen. Oil is far more important than women to America.
posted by sotonohito at 7:04 AM on May 19, 2017 [45 favorites]

Not even close. She's a rightwinger, though one of the intellectually mendacious ones who cares more about getting a reaction than staking out and defending principles. Her current enterprise, Heat St. (a subsidiary of News Corp.) has been described as a “libertarian” web site.

It's British fake news/tabloid journalism on a shoestring and carefully outside of the reach of Carter and Ruck (UK libel law firm). I'm sure Rupert recognises exactly what he set up.
posted by jaduncan at 7:06 AM on May 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

I read your description and knew exactly who that was.

Same thing happened to me a while back. Depressing as hell to find out she was still spouting her rubbish after being made to look so mean and stupid on HIGNFY
posted by Myeral at 7:08 AM on May 19, 2017

We've kowtowed **FAR** more than we ever should have to that evil bullshit. It isn't respecting local custom, it's allowing local evil to disrespect American women.

Thank you, sotonohito, for this giving me this insight into the issue.
posted by mikelieman at 7:12 AM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

HIGNFY?
posted by orrnyereg at 7:16 AM on May 19, 2017

Ugh. I really hate seeing headlines (and hearing the CBC) say that Sweden has "dropped" the Assange case. To many people, that reads as exoneration of Assange. I guess it takes too long to quote these bits from the BBC story:

Top prosecutor Marianne Ny said his arrest warrant was being revoked as it was impossible to serve him notice. ... At a press briefing on Friday, Ms Ny said that by remaining in the embassy in London Mr Assange had evaded the exercise of the European Arrest Warrant (EAW) that would have seen him extradited to Sweden. She said that under Swedish law a criminal investigation needed to be conducted "as quickly as possible". Sweden did not expect Ecuador's co-operation in formally notifying Mr Assange of the allegations against him, a necessary step in proceeding with the case, she added. ... But she said: "If he were to return to Sweden before the statute of limitation on this case expires in August 2020, the preliminary investigation could be resumed." She said it was "regrettable we have not been able to carry out the investigation", and added: "We are not making any pronouncement about guilt."

So wherever the prosecutor is directly quoted or summarized, we can see that they have had to halt proceedings because of their own (sensible, humane) laws about criminal investigations, that they have not changed their decision about the strength of the case, and they have every intent of resuming investigations as their own laws permit.

But Assange and the embassy have successfully gamed the system and the media. So where have we seen that before?
posted by maudlin at 7:16 AM on May 19, 2017 [39 favorites]

Depressing as hell to find out she was still spouting her rubbish after being made to look so mean and stupid on HIGNFY
[HIGNFY = Have I Got News for You]

And to think I almost felt sorry for her on the capitalism and coffee bit.
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 7:19 AM on May 19, 2017

I have a faint hope that he steps outside the embassy, is cuffed by the Met police, and Sweden re-requests the warrant for when he's done with being prosecuted for breaking UK law.
posted by Nice Guy Mike at 7:20 AM on May 19, 2017 [6 favorites]

The Atlantic: The 'Trump Derangement Syndrome' Dodge - "Beware trusting pundits who exploit the least defensible critiques of the president to avoid acknowledging his most dangerous flaws."

Americans can’t help but see that he is erratic, and that his domestic agenda has stalled bigly. He can claim that no politician has ever been treated more unfairly. But we can’t help but know that Ronald Reagan was shot and that John F. Kennedy was killed.

That’s why pro-Trump and anti-anti-Trump commentators have adapted.

As the weeks pass, they spend less time making positive arguments for the president and more time hiding behind the talking point that his critics are overwrought. Unhinged. Hysterical. Suffering from Trump Derangement Syndrome. Don’t look here, at the president who shared too much information with Russian diplomats in an Oval Office meeting. Look there at an excessive reaction to it.

The approach is inseparable from the web era. No matter how bad a Trump blunder, someone can be found overreacting to it or otherwise losing their cool on social media. In fact, social-media feeds disproportionately expose us to the most over-the-top takes, making it seem as if they reflect the median reaction even when that is far from true.

posted by ZeusHumms at 7:25 AM on May 19, 2017 [29 favorites]

We've kowtowed **FAR** more than we ever should have to that evil bullshit. It isn't respecting local custom, it's allowing local evil to disrespect American women.

Pragmatism? What's that? Diplomacy? Huh?

Why do we stay silent when we don't visit? If we don't go in there and liberate their women we're kind of the bigger evil, aren't we?
posted by Talez at 7:26 AM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

For those requiring a referent - Louise Mensch on HIGNFY.
posted by Devonian at 7:28 AM on May 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump: Getting ready for my big foreign trip. Will be strongly protecting American interests - that's what I like to do!

Really, sir? Because what I think you like to do is play golf.

Anyway, cheers to everyone hosting this disaster over the next week and a half. Our profound apologies.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:34 AM on May 19, 2017 [13 favorites]

Trump's DOJ is attacking the lawyers who rushed to help immigrants during the Muslim ban.

Don't forget these fuckers are still doing their evil.
posted by emjaybee at 7:34 AM on May 19, 2017 [52 favorites]

For those requiring a referent - Louise Mensch on HIGNFY. yt

Thanks for that
posted by Myeral at 7:34 AM on May 19, 2017

Wonkette: Missouri Sen. Claire McCaskill: Obamacare Death Spiral My Ass

Senator Claire McCaskill is offering ... a market-based solution for those relatively few areas where insurers may pull out of the marketplace for individual plans altogether: She’s introducing a bill that would allow people in such counties to purchase health insurance on the Washington DC exchange. The Missouri Democrat is basically borrowing an idea from the Republican playbook — Rs have called for health insurance to be sold across state lines (the problem there would be that the market would rush to states allowing the crappiest coverage possible). McCaskill’s bill, on the other hand, is designed to patch a particular short-term problem in certain insurance markets, providing a fallback for consumers whose local options have dried up due to the vagaries of the insurance business.

posted by ZeusHumms at 7:35 AM on May 19, 2017 [57 favorites]

Talez If any nation treated an ethnic minority the way the misogynist nations treat women then that nation would be subject to international sanctions and isolation.

A war would be a bad idea, but submitting to such evil seems like accepting a demotion for American women to the sub-human status the evil men running such nations demand for women unfortunate enough to live under their tyrannical rule.

I also object strongly to the phrase "their women" as it, however unintentionally, accepts the proposition that people are men and women are mere possessions.

Pragmatism and diplomacy have a place. That place is not kowtowing to and engaging in local customs which are inherently dehumanizing and disrespectful to half of America's citizens. Would you advocate that, if a nation existed which had laws against black people, the Obamas should have worn chains when visiting those nations?

I think the best policy the US could take would be one of economic and military embargo against all nations with laws that relegate women to sub-human status. We should not be selling Saudi Arabia weapons, supporting the dictatorial regime there in any way, or buying their oil.
posted by sotonohito at 7:36 AM on May 19, 2017 [53 favorites]

Merkel stood up to the Saudi royals re: the hijab during her recent visit. They put censorship over her hair on the news broadcasts.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 7:38 AM on May 19, 2017 [36 favorites]

There's a reason why Merkel is the leader of the free world and Trump is a laughingstock.
posted by sotonohito at 7:38 AM on May 19, 2017 [84 favorites]

HIGNFY is either a satirical TV news panel show or a fringe politician normalisation vehicle, depending on your point of view. Boris, Farage and, to a lesser degree Mensch, all became household names there.
posted by vbfg at 7:40 AM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

Merkel stood up to the Saudi royals re: the hijab during her recent visit. They put censorship over her hair on the news broadcasts.

No they didn't.
posted by Etrigan at 7:43 AM on May 19, 2017 [47 favorites]

Maybe, if the value of their trade were insufficient.

Ding ding ding ding ding. Winner winner, chicken dinner.
posted by Talez at 7:45 AM on May 19, 2017 [11 favorites]

Alternet (Kali Holloway, May 15, 2017): The Video That Suggests Trump Is Suffering from Alzheimer's

I scoffed at the Alzheimer's suggestion at first (upthread), for some reason - I guess because it appears to let Trump off the hook and excuse his actions - but the article (which references Reagan as a previous presidential example) is persuasive.
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 7:45 AM on May 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

local customs which are inherently dehumanizing and disrespectful to half of America's citizens

...Who will be the arbiter of this, though? I mean, we can't even agree on abortion as an inherent right of women here.

And [semi- devil's advocate] how do you tell that this isn't another case of "white country gets ideas into head to force onto other peoples?" Which has been the source of grief in much of modern world history...
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 7:48 AM on May 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

didn't wear head coverings while visiting the various misogynist countries on the trip.

In modern America women cover their breasts. In other cultures they cover their heads. Men and women alike are supposed to cover their asses.

All cultural taboos like that are sort of absurd, and I definitely don't think anyone should be prosecuted or persecuted for breaking them (in either case) but as an American woman I really don't have a problem with the cultural requirement to cover my chest, most of the time, and I don't feel oppressed by it. (Though when I was breastfeeding I got pretty shameless.)

It is what it is. It's like "remove your hat during the anthem" or "take off your shoes when you enter someone's home." Just a part of the endless protocol human cultures develop. It's not in itself misogynistic. (Though the consequences for violating that taboo certainly can be.)

Also, most middle eastern women don't want to be liberated from their cultures. They are a part of the culture, and the culture is a part of them. Forbidding women from wearing headscarves is as bad as requiring them, to me. So let's be careful with assuming that they don't know what they really want and need us to intervene.

Best to respect other people's rules when you visit them. I take off my shoes when I visit the homes of certain friends. And I would cover my hair if I visited a country where that was expected. (I might decline to visit sites where I'm only allowed in the women's section, though. Personally.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:51 AM on May 19, 2017 [64 favorites]

HIGNFY is either a satirical TV news panel show or a fringe politician normalisation vehicle, depending on your point of view.

That is in some ways the crux of the issue with modern day political satire IMO. Politicians these days seem to be frustrated celebrities (see also Strictly Come Dancing) as much as anything else, with Shitgibbon of course the apotheosis of such
posted by Myeral at 7:53 AM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

For me, I take the Trump dementia issue fairly seriously, because I have a family member with an ideopathic dementing disorder and I've had personal experience of observing loss of language, etc. If this were a different kind of illness, or one that I have not watched develop up close, I would be very hesitant to internet-diagnose.

The particular highly visible and not-super-ambiguous language loss and confusion that accompany many dementing disorders are different, to me, from inferring that someone has [DISORDER] because they appear fatigued, or [OTHER DISORDER] because they lack compassion. If Trump started to develop something similarly visible like constant tremor that prevented holding things, and if we knew that his father had developed [tremor-generating disorder] at about Trump's age, it would not be unreasonable to say that Trump might be developing that disorder. This is different from saying "I think Trump is a terrible parent, he obviously has NPD" or "Trump carries a lot of weight around his midsection, I think he must have heart disease".
posted by Frowner at 7:54 AM on May 19, 2017 [11 favorites]

HIGNFY is either a satirical TV news panel show or a fringe politician normalisation vehicle

Hm...I can remember off-hand multiple instances where the panelists do address the pols directly on how batshit bonkers they are, while I struggle to think of an equivalent on US TV.
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 7:54 AM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

Guys stop with the head covering derail, its offtopic and ignorant and frankly embarrassing.
posted by supercrayon at 7:57 AM on May 19, 2017 [25 favorites]

This is the point of Shabbos - to set aside the day to day and rest, engage in thought and study, and be with your loved ones. She has enormous privilege on all days but I don't think it's fair to insult an accurate summary of the practice, though we may loathe the speaker.
posted by hapaxes.legomenon at 7:58 AM on May 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

So let's be careful with assuming that they don't know what they really want and need us to intervene.

+1000
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 7:58 AM on May 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

It's not in itself misogynistic.

No, only when it applies to women exclusively. Then, it is!

context not quoted because the definition of "it" is supremely irrelevant.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:58 AM on May 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

I'm glad my months long campaign to turn Metafilter against Mensch has been successful. Now if only all the other liberals would stop buying her bullcrap.
posted by Yowser at 7:59 AM on May 19, 2017 [11 favorites]

Now if only all the other liberals would stop buying her bullcrap.

I...wasn't aware that this was a thing.
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 8:03 AM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

Digby/Salon : Donald Trump longs to lock up journalists — and sooner or later he’s going to try it - "As Trump told Comey, he'd love to emulate his pals Erdogan, Duterte and Putin and crack down on press freedom"

Granted, the Trump administration is obviously under tremendous stress. But [reported incidents of harassment against journalists] don’t reflect the administration alone. They also reflect an attitude on the part of law enforcement and security officials toward the media that is becoming increasingly hostile. People in authority are taking their cues from the president and that’s disturbing.

posted by ZeusHumms at 8:04 AM on May 19, 2017 [16 favorites]

I scoffed at the Alzheimer's suggestion at first (upthread), for some reason - I guess because it appears to let Trump off the hook and excuse his actions - but the article (which references Reagan as a previous presidential example) is persuasive.

The sources being used in this post are an anonymous neuroscience blogger named the "Neurocritic", an Argentinian talk show host named David Pakman, former Congressman and talk show host Joe Scarborough, and "former NFL player and medical marijuana proponent Kyle Turley." Of these, the Neurocritic is the only one who may be a psychologist or psychiatrist and therefore capable of a professional diagnosis. But he's anonymous, so who knows?

However, there are a lot of mental health professionals who disagree about the ethics of violating the Goldwater Rule, (which states that doctors should not offer diagnoses of patients they have not personally examined and from whom they have not obtained consent to discuss their mental health in public statements,) with regard to Trump.

Armchair diagnoses by people with a clear axe to grind don't strike me as particularly helpful. They may even inadvertently increase the stigma of mental health disorders with regard to people who have actually been diagnosed with Alzheimers.
posted by zarq at 8:05 AM on May 19, 2017 [22 favorites]

Geez, I went to all that effort re: Mensch and now someone posts a link to a video done by secret alt-right "journalist" David Pakman. A liberal's work is never done.
posted by Yowser at 8:07 AM on May 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

Ok, this may come as a shock to some of you, but we're not going to solve all the questions of cultural relativism here today. Let's maybe save that for later.
posted by Behemoth at 8:09 AM on May 19, 2017 [10 favorites]

The degree to which local custom varies, and the degree to which those customs and their variety can land in the utterly sticky intersection of personal and cultural identity and self/group expression vs. the problematic exertion of oppressive or unjust force/control/dehumanization on a vulnerable population by state and society is a huge and complex topic we've talked about before and will talk about again, but probably are not going to get anywhere good trying to dig in on in the middle of a politics thread just to kill time. Please let it be.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:10 AM on May 19, 2017 [80 favorites]

Hm...I can remember off-hand multiple instances where the panelists do address the pols directly on how batshit bonkers they are, while I struggle to think of an equivalent on US TV.

The problem is that they still just joke around the issues. There are people who need to be smacked down hard and strong without the least bit of humor for being fucking awful human beings.

I really enjoy Have I Got News For You but it is so cringy when they would have Boris Johnson on. Then he helped break the kingdom.
posted by srboisvert at 8:12 AM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

HIGNFY is either a satirical TV news panel show or a fringe politician normalisation vehicle, depending on your point of view.

This American has actually been rather comforted by the HIGNFY take on Trump that came the day after the election. Especially Charlie Booker's initial comment.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:13 AM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

(Parenthetically, I would like to see Trump diagnosed with dementia simply because I think this country is in deep, deep denial about what dementing disorders do, the level of care required and the fact that even someone who is highly visible, rich, considered by some to be competent, powerful, etc can develop dementia. We were able to shove all this under the rug with Reagan, because his condition was covered up while he was in the White House. One of the things you learn when you have someone in your life with a dementing disorder is how effectively people pretend that it's not happening and that it's not catastrophic, or that it would not happen to a person who was smarter, stronger, etc.)
posted by Frowner at 8:16 AM on May 19, 2017 [30 favorites]

The title of this thread is reminiscent of this awesome sign I walk past every day in Halifax.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 8:22 AM on May 19, 2017 [23 favorites]

We were able to shove all this under the rug with Reagan, because his condition was covered up while he was in the White House.

reagan was also significantly less impaired at the beginning of his first term and was surrounded by long-time republican operators who understood how the federal government worked, so even when he did start to slide it was less obvious in the day-to-day operations of the government.

ronnie was never a deep thinker but he did have a gift for public speaking that had visibly declined by the time he left office.
posted by murphy slaw at 8:23 AM on May 19, 2017 [10 favorites]

Trump attorney didn’t want him to sign financial disclosure: Attorney Sheri Dillon said she saw no need for Trump to sign his 2016 personal financial disclosure because he is filing voluntarily this year. But OGE director Walter Shaub said his office would only work with Dillon if she agreed to follow the typical process of having Trump make the certification. That is standard practice for the thousands of financial disclosure forms OGE processes each year.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:24 AM on May 19, 2017 [14 favorites]

long-time republican operators who understood how the federal government worked

Imagine the relief if James Baker and H.W. Bush were involved in this Administration?
posted by dis_integration at 8:25 AM on May 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

George H.W. Bush was by far the most competent and respectable Republican president in my lifetime.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:30 AM on May 19, 2017 [54 favorites]

H.W. Bush would probably wheel his own ass up to Masada today. Or at least get on the damn cable car like a reasonable and respectable leader.
posted by palomar at 8:34 AM on May 19, 2017 [26 favorites]

George H.W. Bush was by far the most competent and respectable Republican president in my lifetime.

and yet there he was yesterday, talking about how he never would have been president if it weren't for roger ailes. the fact that he eventually raised taxes in a concession to reality doesn't forgive that he ran a campaign based on tarring his opponent as being soft on african-american criminality.

that he was the most respectable republican president of my lifetime is the faintest possible praise.
posted by murphy slaw at 8:38 AM on May 19, 2017 [82 favorites]

H.W. Bush would jump out of a plane and land on Masada.
posted by orrnyereg at 8:41 AM on May 19, 2017 [6 favorites]

Attorney Sheri Dillon said she saw no need for Trump to sign his 2016 personal financial disclosure because he is filing voluntarily this year.

what the living shit, sheri.

as an attempt to get out of liability for untrue statements on a federal disclosure, HERE IS OUR FILING BUT IT ISN'T BINDING ON OUR CLIENT BECAUSE HE DIDN'T SIGN NEENER NEENER is the weakest fucking lawyer sauce I have ever heard.
posted by joyceanmachine at 8:45 AM on May 19, 2017 [33 favorites]

he only served the one term, so theoretically he could still serve as President if things got weird enough
posted by Huffy Puffy at 8:46 AM on May 19, 2017 [10 favorites]

One of the things that this administration has taught everyone is that it is entirely possible to run a campaign, neigh, a presidency ignoring everything, looting the country, doing what you want, and just lurching from scandal to scandal. It's an administration based entirely on shamelessness.

I don't want to know how badly this will change electoral calculus in the long term. It's not like the WWC being fucked by it are paying attention. Just so long as liberals cry and minorities suffer.
posted by Talez at 8:47 AM on May 19, 2017 [11 favorites]

The problem is that they still just joke around the issues. There are people who need to be smacked down hard and strong without the least bit of humor for being fucking awful human beings.

I really enjoy Have I Got News For You but it is so cringy when they have Boris Johnson on. Then he helped break the kingdom.

Agreed on the "BoJo" (ugh) one. For some episodes, people might come away with a positive impression of the politicians. I can't remember all the names but I was thinking more of the Mensch ep, the ep where Brian Blessed shouts at the politician guest, the eps with Ken Livingstone, the "tub of lard" ep, the Lembit Opik ep right after he lost an election, one of the eps with Diane Abbott, the ep where Paul Merton has to pause and deadpan that the ludicrous guest isn't "...some kind of character actor?"...all to various degrees of joking-vs-smackdown.

But it would have been so nice to see a fraction of that direct confrontation--the willingness to challenge rather than just letting inhuman ridiculousness slide--by, say, the press during the election campaigns. But NOO we have to have "balance," and give airtime to fringe extremists and refrain from directly asking them, "Do you realize how freakin' stupid your proposal is?!" So...maybe not a comedy show but someone blunt, like Paxman?

I remember an interview with a politics expert during the 2008 election where he was saying that US politics is too "polite" and that we could have something more like the UK's parliamentary question time. Maybe we coddle our politicians too much.
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 8:48 AM on May 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

I'm obsessed with "neigh, a presidency." Seems both apt and rude to horses.
posted by prefpara at 8:49 AM on May 19, 2017 [19 favorites]

George H.W. Bush was by far the most competent and respectable Republican president in my lifetime.

Well, other than that whole business of pardoning the people who would have most likely fingered him for Iran-Contra...
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:50 AM on May 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

I'm obsessed with "neigh, a presidency."

I chuckled again when I saw that the author was Talez (tails?)
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 8:53 AM on May 19, 2017

Carl Bidlt: Reports of White House been in lockdown after someone tried to climb over the fence. Doesn’t say in which direction.
posted by bonehead at 8:54 AM on May 19, 2017 [62 favorites]

I don't want to know how badly this will change electoral calculus in the long term. It's not like the WWC being fucked by it are paying attention. Just so long as liberals cry and minorities suffer.

Remember all those affluent voters who actually carried the election? It's real goddamn interesting how the true blame always seems to lie with people with lower SES.
posted by The Gaffer at 8:55 AM on May 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

Possibly the Secret Service should be searching the bushes nearby.
posted by bonehead at 8:55 AM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

It does illustrate pretty much exactly where the de facto anti-trump coalition will start to crack when the dude eventually is out of the office: white liberals thinking they know what's best for others.

Isn't that what got him into the office in the first place?

Still too soon?
posted by fullerine at 8:56 AM on May 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

Carl Bidlt: Reports of White House been in lockdown after someone tried to climb over the fence. Doesn’t say in which direction.

Trump: Meredith, get out there and create a diversion. I don't care, anything. Jump the fence and hide in the bushes or something, just delay things so I don't have to spend 6 hours on AF1 with all these people, and then go poop in other countries

[fake]
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:59 AM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

James Baker would storm Masada with a rifle in his hands while screaming "Fuck the Jews!"

This made me laugh out loud.

The history behind Baker's infamous line: George H. W. Bush got into a lot of hot water during his term with American Jewish voters for threatening to block millions in loan guarantees from Israel if they didn't dismantle the West Bank settlements and sue for peace with the Palestinians. (Secretary of State James Baker reportedly gave Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir the White House switchboard number and said, "When you're serious about peace, call us.") Bush got in further trouble for complaining about the Jewish lobby in DC and also for complaining about all the money the US sends to Israel. All of that probably wouldn't have done anything but annoy Jewish voters (who traditionally vote Dem anyway) and maybe gain him the support of a few Democrats.

But then Baker had a private conversation which became public, in which he said, "Fuck the Jews. They don't vote for us anyway."

And after that, we didn't. Some Jewish votes for Bush in 1992 swung over to Clinton/Gore. Bush got something like 15% of the Jewish vote, which (I believe) was the lowest any Republican candidate had gotten since Goldwater.)
posted by zarq at 8:59 AM on May 19, 2017 [27 favorites]

Reports of White House been in lockdown after someone tried to climb over the fence.

That was a couple days ago.
posted by contraption at 9:01 AM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

Remember all those affluent voters who actually carried the election? It's real goddamn interesting how the true blame always seems to lie with people with lower SES.

Srsly. If I have to read one more thinkpiece about the White Working Class and what went wrong, or what Democrats must do to win them back, etc. etc. etc. ad nauseam, I'm going to lose every breakfast I ever ate.

What about working class POC? They exist! At least white working class people can vote, or more of them can than working class POC, who are disproportionately disenfranchised thanks to Republican shenanigans. Too little ink is spilled on "how can we get more working class people of color to the polls?"

I believe that one reason so much attention is paid to the white working class is that they are concentrated in areas (small town, exurban, rural) that hold undue sway in Presidential elections because of the electoral college. And with that...I think the EC is breaking our democracy, and something needs to be done, but since it's baked into the Constitution, it's really hard to know what to do about it or even where to begin, without being accused of "being quixotic and wasting time."
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 9:05 AM on May 19, 2017 [56 favorites]

H.W. Bush would jump out of a plane and land on Masada.

And then base jump off the side. I don't like him or his politics but dude is baller.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:12 AM on May 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

Too little ink is spilled on "how can we get more working class people of color to the polls?"

Definitely.

I emailed this study to a few journalists, my State and Federal reps and to several people in the Clinton campaign last year. It estimates that the American working class will become minority-majority in 2032, 11 years sooner than the Census Bureau projection for the overall U.S. population, which becomes “majority-minority” in 2043.

Democrats must pay attention to this. Some of them seem to get it. Many don't. Of course, Republicans could give a damn about minorities. But Democrats will find themselves increasingly out of touch and losing elections the longer they continue on their present course and take working class minority voters for granted. PoC will just stay home on election days.
posted by zarq at 9:17 AM on May 19, 2017 [17 favorites]

Carl Bidlt: Reports of White House been in lockdown after someone tried to climb over the fence. Doesn’t say in which direction.

Dammit, I made that joke yesterday.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:19 AM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

The White House press office says there will be no FBI Director announcement today, so we probably have some time on that. I think Trump will be too distracted/exhausted on the road to deal with it.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:21 AM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

The White House press office says there will be no FBI Director announcement today

At this stage in the game, I'm almost convinced that this means it'll be in the next couple of hours.
posted by Devonian at 9:24 AM on May 19, 2017 [13 favorites]

Rep. Ted Lieu (D-Calif.) on Tuesday announced a new bill that would require President Trump to reimburse the government for public money spent on his travel to properties he owns, such as his beloved Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida.

“It is unacceptable for the president to maintain an interest in traveling to properties in which he has a direct financial interest, as the U.S. government is responsible for renting space to personnel in said private commercial entities,” Lieu's bill says, according to The Washington Examiner.

The Stop Waste and Misuse by the President (SWAMP) Act states that Trump’s visits to his own properties “results in the American taxpayer effectively subsidizing the president’s businesses.”
Text of the bill.
posted by zarq at 9:24 AM on May 19, 2017 [158 favorites]

Stop Waste and Misuse by the President (SWAMP) Act

Well played, Rep. Lieu, well played.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:41 AM on May 19, 2017 [54 favorites]

Biden gives the media another shiny object to chase at the worst possible time.

"I never thought she was a great candidate. I thought I was a great candidate," Biden remarked.

Suddenly, a thousand reporters toss aside their notes on "White House in disarray" stories so they can sweat to the Clinton-hatin' oldies.

And here's the kicker:

Speaking at the SALT hedge fund conference in Las Vegas [...]

Way to have your finger on the pulse of today's resistance movement, Joe.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:42 AM on May 19, 2017 [44 favorites]

The CBS comedy "Mom" will not be campaigning for an Emmy this year. Their entire Emmy campaign budget, $250,000, has been donated to Planned Parenthood by co-creator Chuck Lorre and two-time Emmy winner Allison Janney.
posted by zarq at 9:55 AM on May 19, 2017 [164 favorites]

I agree with this. I don't want Trump to become the poster boy for a horrific disease that so many people already misunderstand. It also comes across as though people are trying to find excuses for his behavior, rather than holding him accountable.

Don't worry...same thing applied to Reagan. No one held him accountable.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:55 AM on May 19, 2017

Biden gives the media another shiny object to chase at the worst possible time.

Biden isn't under any obligation to say nice things about Hillary Clinton, but damn, son, just leave it alone.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:56 AM on May 19, 2017 [38 favorites]

Ronald A. Klain, WaPo: Don't underestimate Trump

It is dangerous to underestimate Trump’s survival skills. And so, as the appointment of a special counsel to investigate the Russia mess has Washington buzzing with nascent impeachment talk, 25th Amendment scenarios and rumors about resignation, it is worth remembering how tenaciously Trump pursued power, along with five key assets he has to maintain his grip on it.

I think it's not Trump's "skills" that are protecting him, it's the Zeitgeist Of Stupidity created by Ailes and his ilk.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:59 AM on May 19, 2017 [21 favorites]

The White House press office says there will be no FBI Director announcement today

Who knows what "today" really means? Maybe they're following the Jewish Day; this would explain all the 6-7 pm bombshells.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:02 AM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

I think it's not Trump's "skills" that are protecting him, it's the Zeitgeist Of Stupidity created by Ailes and his ilk.

Yeah, but you gotta give Trump credit for being completely shameless. Most candidates would have bowed out with the FIRST explosive scandal. I think a lot of people assumed that the fact that he didn't, meant that it really wasn't a big deal. People are used to interacting with people who would actually feel bad when they did wrong.

Not sure if shamelessness counts as a "skill," exactly. But in a way I think it's Trump's superpower.
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:03 AM on May 19, 2017 [14 favorites]

this would explain all the 6-7 pm bombshells.

Sundown is after 8pm now.
posted by zarq at 10:04 AM on May 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

this would explain all the 6-7 pm bombshells.

Sundown is after 8pm now.

ALTERNATIVE FACTS
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:08 AM on May 19, 2017 [17 favorites]

But in a way I think it's Trump's superpower.

Yep, him and everyone around him. You can kind of tell the ones who do have a kernal of an ability to feel shame that they are desperately trying to squash deep, deep inside of themselves, but most of them have zero self-awareness, zero shame, and zero empathy. And, as we've seen, when so much of our government runs on "accepted norms" and traditions and the general vague notion that scandals lead to apologies and various types of consequences, you really can't do anything about someone that just comes in and does whatever the hell he wants and when someone confronts him with "Um, that's really disrespectful and bad, please don't do that" just goes "hey fuck you I do what I want, I'm king of the world!"
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:09 AM on May 19, 2017 [15 favorites]

AP: Trump loyalists [across the country] pay little heed to revelations rocking DC
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:09 AM on May 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

My fear is that Mueller will find so much evidence of wrongdoing that he'll never get done. He'll want to finish his investigation and gather all the evidence he can before recommending charges or whatever the end result is. That's totally understandable. But I worry that there'll be just so freakin' much evidence of so many different crimes that he won't be able to finish before this term is over. Like he'll finally feel like he has hit the end of the Russia stuff but the money laundering will still stretch out like an endless road and one of his deputies will come to him and say, "Boss, you're not gonna believe this, but it looks like they were selling stolen organs in Uruguay, too..."
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:17 AM on May 19, 2017 [33 favorites]

AP: Trump loyalists [across the country] pay little heed to revelations rocking DC

Good god can this stop? These people don't need to be explored, they need to be shunned. IDGAF about the ignorant masses that put us in this position.

I agree. Then again, in the latest installment of what seems like NPR's new daily feature, "Trump Voters and their opinions are fascinating; Hillary Who?", the Trump voters they spoke to seemed to be putting on a brave front over feelings that Trump may have conned them after all (emphasis mine):

[Correspondent SARAH] MCCAMMON: Across the room, Frances Hall said she hopes the truth will come out in Trump's favor.

FRANCES HALL: That's a good thing if they can prove that Donald Trump's innocent. Yeah, that's a very good thing.

MCCAMMON: Hall lives in a small town nearby. At 67, she still drives a school bus, as she has for decades. Even if the investigation reveals wrongdoing by the president, Hall says that might not change her support for him.

HALL: Mostly everybody in Washington are crooked one way or the other. They don't worry about us little poor people. They don't. So no, it wouldn't bother me.

MCCAMMON: Hall says she's a little overwhelmed by all the news coming out of Washington and doesn't know what will happen next. Whatever happens, she's not expecting her life here to change anytime soon.

They sure seem to have given up on "bring back the coal jobs, MAGA!"
posted by Gelatin at 10:23 AM on May 19, 2017 [10 favorites]

> My fear is that Mueller will find so much evidence of wrongdoing that he'll never get done. He'll want to finish his investigation and gather all the evidence he can before recommending charges or whatever the end result is.

Yeah so this is my question, too. If an inquiry finds evidence that crime X was committed, is there a reason why the FBI wouldn't indict and prosecute for that while continuing its investigation into crimes Y and Z? I understand that they wouldn't want to contaminate their investigation, but would they quietly continue investigating while more instances of crime X continue to pile up?

As a thought experiment, would the FBI continue to investigate Gotti's tax evasion while he was having people whacked? Or would they step in as soon as they could to stop an ongoing criminal enterprise?
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:24 AM on May 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

But I worry that there'll be just so freakin' much evidence of so many different crimes that he won't be able to finish before this term is over.

This guy has spent huge parts of his career working with white-collar crime. If I am sure of nothing else, I am sure that he knows how to handle being on the receiving end of a dump truck of information. I trust his judgment on this. He would not have the career he's had if he wasn't capable of making those sorts of decisions sensibly.
posted by Sequence at 10:25 AM on May 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

He would not have the career he's had if he wasn't capable of making those sorts of decisions sensibly.

That, plus I'm sure he has like at least three other people helping him do stuff.
posted by Rykey at 10:27 AM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

Trump loyalists [across the country] pay little heed to revelations rocking DC

In physics there is the concept of "adiabatic change." That's a change that happens so gradually that there's no single point which you can identify as the point where the transition happened, so slowly that the equilibrium of the system is never really disturbed.

I am coming to the conclusion these days that minds can be changed, but only adiabatically. If you change your mind slowly enough, you can convince yourself it is not changing at all, and preserve your sense of identity.

(In fact, that's the how democracy can slowly turn into autocracy without people objecting, and why the people warning about dictatorships told us to write down what we believe... But I think it can also work in reverse! If good triumphs, Trump voters will eventually deny that they ever supported him, or even if they don't deny it, they will hardly be able to believe it.)

My fear is that Mueller will find so much evidence of wrongdoing that he'll never get done.

Neal Katyal for WaPo: Trump or Congress can still block Robert Mueller. I know. I wrote the rules.
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:29 AM on May 19, 2017 [45 favorites]

Dementia is not an on/off switch. "Degenerative" is exactly what it implies: loss of mental and physical function is a gradual process, one that occurs over years. And not a year or two--for stuff like Alzheimer's we're talking 10+ years or more.
Neurodegeneration is a ball rolling down a hill. You can give medication and treatments that will make the slope a bit more gentle, a bit less steep, allowing the affected a longer period where they can retain their faculties and maintain independence. But the average slope is always down.
Related to the above, symptoms can show up in bursts and fade. So maybe one day a week is really bad. Then it turns to a couple days in a row. Then most days are bad, with only a day of clarity once in a while. Then all days are bad.
Similarly, deterioration does not occur equally across all systems. In a lot of dementias (like Alzheimer's), language is one of the first things to go. Loss of fluidity, loss of vocabulary, loss of coherence, loss of focus, etc. A lot of cutting-edge diagnostic techniques are now coming out of computational labs and center around changes in speech and tracking different linguistic markers. This is part of how we've learned that these diseases start affecting people way earlier than we thought in the past.
People suffering from dementia start compensating for its effects early on. This begins unconsciously before it moves to conscious management. Avoiding slopes and stairs because you feel off-balance. Avoiding new and/or unstructured situations because they increasingly make you feel uncomfortable. Avoiding intellectually and psychologically challenging activities because they frustrate you and you can't follow them. Attributing emotional outbursts to being tired, or stressed, or hungry, or outside events. Obviously, if prior to the onset of the disease you already were a creature of habit or incurious or whatnot then it's going to be hard to figure out at what point your personality traits stop and the dementia begins.
Similarly, loved ones around the affected also start compensating for the effects. Mom's not less adventurous than she used to be, she just gets tired more easily. Dad's not having trouble reading the books he used to love, his eyes just aren't what they used to be. Sure, Grandma used to enjoy discussing politics, but you can't do it anymore. Not because she's more quick to anger, she's just old. You know how old people are! They never change! Frequently at the point when loved ones realize something is wrong they still refuse to bring anything up for fear of alienating the affected and out of reluctance to face the repercussions of the diagnosis.
Someone can both be suffering from early-stage dementia and be a total shit all on their own. The fact that Trump has been a total shit his whole life underlines the idea that a diagnosis of dementia wouldn't somehow absolve him of everything he's done before it.

Also:

It is troubling to see the conflation of dementia with mental illness. They are two different things. A person with a mental illness goes through periods where it's worse and it's better, but the effects average to roughly a flat line throughout one's lifetime. The average effect of the symptoms can be managed via treatment--sort of like someone walking along a flat surface, then going up a step to walk along a slightly higher flat surface. This isn't a ball rolling down a hill*. So arguments about stigmatizing mental illness don't perfectly translate to people suffering from dementia. It's one thing to say people with dementia deserve the same level of respect and love as those without--that goes without saying. But you can't argue that someone with dementia, even early-stage dementia, is capable of the same jobs and tasks as someone who isn't suffering from it. Effects of the disease can be lessened but not eliminated, and you can't predict when you're going to see a surge or a decrease, when the symptoms will be physical or psychological or a mix, nor when it's going to accelerate into complete dysfunction. This goes double for diseases that are undiagnosed and untreated.
posted by Anonymous at 10:29 AM on May 19, 2017

But I worry that there'll be just so freakin' much evidence of so many different crimes that he won't be able to finish before this term is over.

I'll settle for the top ten.
posted by Gelatin at 10:32 AM on May 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

This guy has spent huge parts of his career working with white-collar crime. If I am sure of nothing else, I am sure that he knows how to handle being on the receiving end of a dump truck of information.

Not to mention piling a dump truck of charges on lower-level miscreants to encourage them to cop a plea and provide evidence on the higher-ups.
posted by Gelatin at 10:34 AM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

Thank you schroedinger. As someone who has and is currently caring for people with Alzheimer's dementia, this is exactly my experience of doing so. Thank you for giving it such eloquent words.
posted by Sophie1 at 10:36 AM on May 19, 2017 [11 favorites]

Mostly everybody in Washington are crooked one way or the other.

I think this idea merits some unpacking. If voters believe that all politicians are crooks, and that they all lie, and never keep their promises - then yes, they will vote for the Leopards Eating Faces party if they think that all leopards lie: either they say they'll eat faces but they don't mean it, or they say they won't eat faces but they will. I know racism, sexism, misplaced nostalgia, and other factors were behind Trump's victory, but so many people said that he'll "drain the swamp" (ha ha ha) or "he says all these Bad Things but he doesn't really mean it." And they're sincerely shocked when he a) turns out to be corrupt and b) means all the bad things he says.

To me, this is another democracy-corroding attitude that we have to turn around: that all politicians are corrupt liars, and this means that "outsiders" will do a better job. In what other job do we assume that inexperience means competence???? Seriously, WTFkingF? And can a democracy function when its representatives are all assumed to be sleazy, corrupt, and lying?

The irony is that Americans who voted for "Drain The Swamp!" and "Outsiders Are More Capable!" got an outsider who is probably the most corrupt and incapable President we've ever had.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 10:36 AM on May 19, 2017 [60 favorites]

But I worry that there'll be just so freakin' much evidence of so many different crimes that he won't be able to finish before this term is over.

I'll settle for the top ten.

One to impeach, and the rest can be handled by the normal criminal justice system...
posted by Buntix at 10:37 AM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

I think that, once you have solid evidence that the United States is being run out of the Kremlin, you don't say "let's spend another few months on some of these money-laundering charges before we go public with this".
posted by uosuaq at 10:37 AM on May 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

Finally: there are actually a number of peer-reviewed papers with algorithms you could apply to transcripts of Trump's past and current public appearances to track any losses in speech and vocabulary and correlate with likelihood that he's affected. People have done this with Reagan. Hell, researchers have done this with Agatha Christie.
posted by Anonymous at 10:38 AM on May 19, 2017

@cjciaramella: Sen. Cornyn and Rep. Ted Poe introduce "Back the Blue Act." Would create mandatory minimums and death penalty for attacks on law enforcement
posted by zombieflanders at 10:38 AM on May 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

since it's baked into the Constitution, it's really hard to know what to do about it or even where to begin, without being accused of "being quixotic and wasting time."

I think the serious fix is financially incentivizing people to return to rural areas, everyone, which will by its nature involve more diverse rural/exurban families. Some of them will start getting more conservative about property taxes, sure, but it would help fight the barrier of "X people live here and are like ME, Y people live THERE and are FREAKISH STRANGERS." Hell, if you target it to millenials and include internet infrastructure upgrades, you might even get a lot of loyalty from people who thought they'd never be able to afford a house.
posted by corb at 10:39 AM on May 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

that all politicians are corrupt liars, and this means that "outsiders" will do a better job

this also presumes that the best person to fight corruption in politics is a person who doesn't have any existing relationships in washington, and therefore very little insight into the places where corruption is even happening.

corruption is a perversion of the existing political process, so let's hire a guy who doesn't know what the existing political process is to fight it!

it's like going to a couple of bad doctors and deciding that your best bet is to hire a cosmetologist to treat your hepatitis because at least they aren't part of the system, man.
posted by murphy slaw at 10:42 AM on May 19, 2017 [14 favorites]

AP Worldwide effort set to keep Trump happy on 1st trip abroad
When President Donald Trump sits down for dinner in Saudi Arabia, caterers have ensured that his favorite meal - steak with a side of ketchup - will be offered alongside the traditional local cuisine.

Secret Life of Gravy: This is unbelievable to me. This is the way you treat a child.

Maybe I'm taking it out of context, but offering food your guests like to eat looks like a hospitality.
posted by ringu0 at 10:45 AM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

Not to mention piling a dump truck of charges on lower-level miscreants to encourage them to cop a plea and provide evidence on the higher-ups.

Luckily for the Trump administration, they are well known as kind, respectful, and generally excellent employers who inspire loyalty and devotion, even among people who don't 100% instantly agree with everything they've said, so this should be a tough nut to crack. There is absolutely no way that the dozens of people who've been leaking the grim minutiae of working in this White House to any media outlet they can find would ever turn on their beloved leader.
posted by Copronymus at 10:45 AM on May 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

The White House is seeking fall interns.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:47 AM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

The White House is seeking fall interns.

progressive of them to remove the gender bias from "fall guys"
posted by murphy slaw at 10:48 AM on May 19, 2017 [158 favorites]

Maybe they should try 4chan?
posted by Artw at 10:48 AM on May 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

AP Worldwide effort set to keep Trump happy on 1st trip abroad

You remember that Twilight Zone episode "The Good Life"? That's the one with the kid who was basically omnipotent and could send people to the cornfield. I'm reminded of it today.
posted by nubs at 10:49 AM on May 19, 2017 [20 favorites]

The Onion: Hundreds Of Miniature Sean Hannitys Burst From Roger Ailes’ Corpse

[T]he cacophony caused by the two-inch-tall, mucus-covered Hannitys screeching right-wing talking points drowned out every other sound in the room. “They were suddenly everywhere, shrieking about the war on Christmas, paid protesters, and coddled, crybaby liberals on college campuses.
posted by zakur at 10:50 AM on May 19, 2017 [46 favorites]

Is political preference a deciding factor in the application review process?
No. It is essential, however, that applicants are dedicated to the ideals and mission of the White House.

Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooookay nope.
posted by lazaruslong at 10:51 AM on May 19, 2017 [24 favorites]

There's serving a food your guests will like to eat, and there's preparing a special meal for your guest who won't like your cooking.

This isn't "President Donald Trump, steak lover, visits Saudi Arabia's best steakhouse." This is "Unadventurous baby man Donald Trump requires Spaghetti-os at a moment's notice."
posted by emelenjr at 10:52 AM on May 19, 2017 [53 favorites]

Why isn't the right-wing media outraged that he's putting ketchup on his steak?

I mean, jesus christ. Now I know how Hannity feels about Dijon mustard.
posted by Yowser at 10:54 AM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

via NYT:

To the Editor:

There’s a saying in the theater that whoever occupies the star’s dressing room creates the atmosphere backstage. If you have a leading lady or gentleman who is easy to get along with, undemanding, friendly and charming, the cast follows suit, and you have few if any problems. If you have a diva or a narcissistic star, the atmosphere turns viral.

I’ve been thinking about that recently in terms of our national trauma, and I believe that the star in our dressing room has brought about the epidemic of dangerous mood changes, random episodes of violence and a general malaise in the lives of most Americans.

I’m more than observing it; I’m living it.

HAROLD PRINCE, NEW YORK

The writer is the Broadway theater director and producer.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:55 AM on May 19, 2017 [73 favorites]

I believe that conservatives are now united in agreement that burnt to a crisp and drowned in ketchup is the only way to have steak. Frankly it is all they deserve.
posted by Artw at 10:56 AM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

Is political preference a deciding factor in the application review process?
No. It is essential, however, that applicants are dedicated to the ideals and mission of the White House.

Only accepting applicants named Meredith or Steve.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 10:57 AM on May 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

Maybe I'm taking it out of context, but offering food your guests like to eat looks like a hospitality.

It's also good manners to eat the food your hosts present you with. The guest-host relationship must work both ways, or else it's just a power play on one side or the other.

Of course, for Trump everything is a power play, and you're either dominating or dominated. You can bet that his foreign hosts have learned this. We'll see which of them can turn it to their advantage.
posted by Doktor Zed at 10:57 AM on May 19, 2017 [20 favorites]

ONLY THE NUGGETS THAT LOOK LIKE DINOSAURS.
posted by Artw at 10:59 AM on May 19, 2017 [43 favorites]

HAROLD PRINCE, NEW YORK

The writer is the Broadway theater director and producer.

One of 45's staffers is gonna chop that letter up and show it to him so he can run around shouting, "See! See! At least Harold Prince understands I'm the real star here!"
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:01 AM on May 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

Maybe I'm taking it out of context, but offering food your guests like to eat looks like a hospitality.

It's also rude to up your nose at what is offered, which I, and apparently a number of foreign diplomatic corps, worry about. No one wants a (more immediate) diplomatic incident. Speaking for myself, I expect a much higher degree of inter-cultural competence and basic politeness in the head of state than that man has ever demonstrated.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 11:02 AM on May 19, 2017 [14 favorites]

He affects lower middle class tastes theatrically in order to invite elite disdain.

But they're not the tastes of the lower middle class. They're the tastes of a literal five-year-old.
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:02 AM on May 19, 2017 [12 favorites]

I agree with both sides: many of Trump's personal habits are red flags about his black-and-white, dominate-or-be-dominated worldview, but playing into this is also a trap that divides people along perceived cultural lines in order to obscure the underlying class dynamics.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:03 AM on May 19, 2017 [12 favorites]

Only ordering from the child menu and throwing a tantrum when the mac and cheese has noodles the wrong shape is not an underlying class dynamic.
posted by Artw at 11:07 AM on May 19, 2017 [34 favorites]

The White House is seeking fall interns.

progressive of them to remove the gender bias from "fall guys"

Oh, Meredith, Trump's original "fall gal."
posted by that's how you get ants at 11:07 AM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

Who cares what he eats?

I don't really care what he eats; I do care quite a bit that foreign governments seem very concerned with catering to his demands--and making it known that they're doing so. This is how America is now being represented on the world stage, by a man who is being constantly described as just this side of a tantrum.

I don't eat pepperoni, which is a little weird. But if I were President, foreign countries would not worry about the possibility that serving me pepperoni would cause a serious incident. This is clearly not the case with Trump; it's not just that he has a preference, it's that we could have permanently damaged diplomatic relations with foreign countries if he does not get what he wants at the dinner table. Adults should be able to smile and deal with it when at professional dinners where the food served is not to their taste--and if that's the case, then offering a picky eater the food they prefer is a nice gesture of hospitality. It's only just a nice gesture of hospitality if you are doing it to be nice, not because the other party is unable to handle minor disappointments and inconveniences and is also the Commander-in-Chief of the United States Armed Forces.
posted by Sequence at 11:07 AM on May 19, 2017 [49 favorites]

What matters is that he wants to take food away from poor people.

NPR's ketchup-eating bus driver who doesn't watch the news and self-identifies as poor sees this as a point in his favor, of course
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:08 AM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

Seth Reiss, New Yorker: In Trump's America

In Trump’s America, a doctor enters the examination room, looks at his clipboard, looks at you, and then says, “The test results are in. You have all of them.”

In Trump’s America, the sun rises at 6:30 a.m. and sets at 6:32 a.m. On Mondays, both happen a minute sooner. Wednesdays are called All Moon All the Time Wednesdays. Saturday doesn’t exist.
[…]
In Trump’s America, the ending of the movie “Se7en” is different. Kevin Spacey’s character gets up after being shot, he grabs Brad Pitt’s gun, he shoots Brad Pitt, he shoots Morgan Freeman, and then he punts Gwyneth Paltrow’s head across the desert. The epilogue is Spacey sipping a drink on a beach while somebody hands him hundred-dollar bill after hundred-dollar bill.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:09 AM on May 19, 2017 [10 favorites]

In Saudi Arabia, people with knowledge of the planning for Trump’s trip say the caterers are planning to offer the president steak and ketchup alongside the lamb and hefty portions of rice on the menu.

and, you know, I imagine the source for this info rolling their eyes and making a jacking off motion while talking to the AP reporter.
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:11 AM on May 19, 2017 [13 favorites]

Ah, see. It'll be a slower news day since he's on the long haul to Riyadh

So, that means this thread may last a whole week? Hmmm. Conflicted emotions about that.
posted by Melismata at 11:13 AM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

corruption is a perversion of the existing political process, so let's hire a guy who doesn't know what the existing political process is to fight it!

Not only that, but also, Trump's appeal to many of his voters, his obvious contempt for political norms and traditions, is also part of the reason he's so corrupt, incompetent, and destructive. I don't know how to communicate this connection except to retroactively send people to civics class.
posted by Gelatin at 11:14 AM on May 19, 2017 [6 favorites]

Ah, see. It'll be a slower news day since he's on the long haul flight to Riyadh

I heard he demanded a second maraschino cherry in his Shirley Temple, while only allowing the rest of his Cabinet one. [fake]
posted by Mayor West at 11:14 AM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

We're going to need a new thread for Trump's Stephen Miller-written speech on Islam. Just saying.
posted by Yowser at 11:15 AM on May 19, 2017 [12 favorites]

Rosenstein claims he actually did have problems with Comey, especially how he handled the Clinton emails, but Trump had already planned to fire him before he wrote his Meno.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 11:15 AM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

I must admit, Paul Krugman's assertion today that the Republican Party has been reduced to a group of apparatchiks is both apropos and delightfully mean.

"The fact that the G.O.P. is a party of apparatchiks was one crucial factor in last year’s election. Why did Marine Le Pen, often portrayed as the French equivalent of Trump, lose by a huge margin? Because France’s conservatives were only willing to go so far; they simply would not support a candidate whose motives and qualifications they distrusted. Republicans, however, went all in behind Trump, knowing full well that he was totally unqualified, strongly suspecting that he was corrupt and even speculating that he might be in Russian pay, simply because there was an “R” after his name on the ballot."

In his blog he also points out the top 10 state exporters to Mexico: Texas, Arizona, Louisiana, Michigan, New Mexico, Tennessee, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, and Kansas. So good luck with that NAFTA re-negotiation you voted for!
posted by xyzzy at 11:18 AM on May 19, 2017 [51 favorites]

WaPo: Nearly 700 vacancies at CDC because of Trump administration’s hiring freeze. The government-wide freeze was lifted, but HHS still has a hiring freeze. I'm sure there's no situation in which we'd wish we had more public health officials.

A video of Hillary Clinton's debate prep, in which she practices "to avoid the unwanted Trump hug" (she hopes it "brightens your day")

In gossip news, The New York Post reports that Huma Abedin has filed for a divorce.

In which ace Congressional reporter Matt Fuller was trying to text his cousin a crude birthday message while driving, but sent it to a former Congressman instead.
posted by zachlipton at 11:18 AM on May 19, 2017 [53 favorites]

but Trump had already planned to fire him before he wrote his Meno.

The conspiracy reaches all the way to ancient Athens!
posted by Barack Spinoza at 11:21 AM on May 19, 2017 [14 favorites]

In gossip news, The New York Post reports that Huma Abedin has filed for a divorce.

Thank god. I recently heard she was trying to reconcile with the little shit.
posted by photoslob at 11:23 AM on May 19, 2017 [14 favorites]

It also comes across as though people are trying to find excuses for his behavior, rather than holding him accountable.

Apropos: We overanalyze Trump. He is what he appears to be.
posted by Mental Wimp at 11:25 AM on May 19, 2017 [10 favorites]

Our society is so fascinating sometimes. Current banner on the front page of WaPo:

In the News Breast milk Dinosaur extinction 'Hitler Street' Robert E. Lee Jeff Sessions Family leave Apple's pizza box Trump attacks Chris Cornell Pool parasite
posted by Melismata at 11:25 AM on May 19, 2017 [12 favorites]

Kinda reads like a Guided by Voices setlist, tbh
posted by Barack Spinoza at 11:27 AM on May 19, 2017 [27 favorites]

Current banner on the front page of WaPo:

To everyone else who also struggled with it, no, you aren't having a stroke, those are all separate items and not a headline.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 11:28 AM on May 19, 2017 [18 favorites]

WOW. Li'l Hannitys might be the best Onion story since the one about product diversity edging past biodiversity.
posted by Don Pepino at 11:29 AM on May 19, 2017

In gossip news, The New York Post reports that Huma Abedin has filed for a divorce.

I had heard that the only reason she hadn't yet was so shouldn't couldn't be compelled to testify against him. With the guilty plea, that reason is gone.
posted by stopgap at 11:32 AM on May 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

In the News Breast milk Dinosaur extinction 'Hitler Street' Robert E. Lee Jeff Sessions Family leave Apple's pizza box Trump attacks Chris Cornell Pool parasite

🎶 We didn't start the fiii-re... 🎶
posted by Strange Interlude at 11:34 AM on May 19, 2017 [41 favorites]

Wheels up.

It's Friday; the President has left the country; the sun is shining. It's a good day.
posted by zachlipton at 11:35 AM on May 19, 2017 [16 favorites]

The White House is seeking fall interns.

Should be "fail interns."
posted by Gelatin at 11:35 AM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

Sorry about that, I should have put spaces between the headlines. I just thought it was fascinating that with the country going to hell in a handbasket, our biggest concern seems to be breast milk.
posted by Melismata at 11:36 AM on May 19, 2017

Should be "fail interns."

Surely Fall Interns (as in Fall Guy).
posted by Twain Device at 11:37 AM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

Meh, I'm not down with mocking his diet or clothing etc. It's a trap.

I'm of two minds about this.

On the one hand, I detect a whiff of classism in the mocking of his clothing and decor, of old money mocking the nouveau (or should I say nu-faux?) riche's tacky aspirational caricature of their own, more "proper" lifestyles. It comes dangerously close to conflating good taste with good morals.

On the other, doing things like ordering off the menu at nice restaurants repudiates the expertise you theoretically go to that restaurant to experience. That refusal is actually an assertion that his preferences and his money trump (sorry, couldn't think of a better word) actual qualifications. It's a refusal to consider that someone else might know or have something worthwhile to share with you. That is not a quality I want in a president. Critiques that are superficially about his taste but substantially about this deficiency provide a tangible entry point into what is essentially a theory of mind, and I'm okay with those.
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 11:40 AM on May 19, 2017 [11 favorites]

Sorry about that, I should have put spaces between the headlines. I just thought it was fascinating that with the country going to hell in a handbasket, our biggest concern seems to be breast milk.

As I learned when the staff of a conference I attended tried to kick me out after they learned that I was nursing and would be pumping during the conference, breast milk is a great example of Women Doing It Wrong.
posted by medusa at 11:42 AM on May 19, 2017 [10 favorites]

From CheeseDigestsAll's Mother Jones link about Rod Rosenstein's comments regarding his role in the Comey firing:

According to Rosenstein, Attorney General Jeff Sessions was interested in removing Comey even before he assumed that role. "In one of my first meetings with then-Senator Jeff Sessions last winter, we discussed the need for new leadership at the FBI," Rosenstein told senators. One of Sessions' main problems with Comey, Rosenstein's remarks suggest, was that Comey was too independent of top Justice Department officials. "Among the concerns that I recall were to restore the credibility of the FBI, respect the established authority of the Department of Justice, limit public statements, and eliminate leaks," he said.

Sessions has been pushing for Comey's removal for a long time and continued to do even after it was known to the campaign/transition team that Mike Flynn was under active FBI investigation. Sessions was a Vice-Chair of the Mike Pence-led transition team.

Moreover, according to Rosenstein's comments, he "wrote a brief memorandum to the Attorney General summarizing [his] longstanding concerns about Director Comey’s public statements concerning the Secretary Clinton email investigation." Sessions was more than willing to use these comments as part of his pretexual, post-hoc justification for actualizing a long-standing desire to remove Comey's from the FBI Directorship.

Rosenstein's comments strongly suggest that Sessions has been party to obstruction of justice.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 11:44 AM on May 19, 2017 [37 favorites]

It's Friday; the President has left the country;

Ok, NOW build the wall.
posted by mikepop at 11:45 AM on May 19, 2017 [92 favorites]

Rosenstein's comments strongly suggest that Sessions has been party to obstruction of justice.

NO WAY.
posted by Melismata at 11:47 AM on May 19, 2017 [20 favorites]

I agree it's irritating that if it turns out the president has dementia he gets topnotch medical care instead of dying in jail, but making him pay can wait, AFAIC, forever. Job one is to prevent him from boiling the oceans and turning the surface of the Earth to obsidian. Job two, save the republic.

If article 25 of the constitution is so rudimentary it leaves the country vulnerable to dismantling by a demented executive, that's a problem we should solve very soon if we think we want to continue long-term with this whole United States of America... wheeze, as Wodehouse might have put it. If it doesn't work as-is, take it out for a test-drive and a legislative tune-up.
posted by Don Pepino at 11:49 AM on May 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

respect the established authority of the Department of Justice,

I don't respect J. Session one fucking bit!
posted by puddledork at 11:50 AM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

Wheels up.

It's Friday; the President has left the country;

as I commented somewhere or other not so long ago, however all this Trump BS plays out, it will end with him on the run. Could this be act one of all that?
posted by philip-random at 11:53 AM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

The interesting part (from the Washington Post story, and noted here by Brian Beutler) is this:

Rep. Jim Himes (D-Conn.) recalled the “dissonant moment” when Rosenstein refused to say “who had asked him, if anyone had asked him to write his memorandum.”

“He said, ‘That is Bob Mueller’s purview,’ and that was puzzling to a lot of us,” said Himes, a member of the House Intelligence Committee.

In other words, Rosenstein is saying that the circumstances of Comey's firing are under the umbrella of Mueller's investigation. I'm not sure why it's "puzzling," but Mueller investigating whether firing Comey was obstruction of justice is going to get interesting. And it's specifically going to get interesting for Rosenstein, who is now implicated up to his eyeballs.
posted by zachlipton at 11:53 AM on May 19, 2017 [13 favorites]

Is it really puzzling? I thought some Trump people were happy about the special counsel because now they can punt on all questions about the Comey firing and Russia stuff with "oh, that's part of Mueller's investigation and we can't talk about it."
posted by yasaman at 11:58 AM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

In which ace Congressional reporter Matt Fuller was trying to text his cousin a crude birthday message while driving, but sent it to a former Congressman instead.

Update—the response: "Thought maybe it was Boehner drunk again."
posted by zachlipton at 11:59 AM on May 19, 2017 [23 favorites]

however all this Trump BS plays out, it will end with him on the run. Could this be act one of all that?

DO NOT TOY WITH MY FONDEST HOPES AND WISHES.
posted by Strange Interlude at 11:59 AM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

NYT: President Trump told Russian officials in the Oval Office that James Comey's firing relieved "great pressure," calling him a "nut job"

President Trump told Russian officials in the Oval Office this month that firing the F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, had relieved “great pressure” on him, according to a document summarizing the meeting.

“I just fired the head of the F.B.I. He was crazy, a real nut job,” Mr. Trump said, according to the document, which was read to The New York Times by an American official. “I faced great pressure because of Russia. That’s taken off.”

Mr. Trump added, “I’m not under investigation.”

posted by zachlipton at 12:00 PM on May 19, 2017 [138 favorites]

Update—the response: "Thought maybe it was Boehner drunk again."

Why not, it's Mueller time.
posted by peeedro at 12:01 PM on May 19, 2017 [16 favorites]

those are all separate items and not a headline.

They could be, if Americans would adopt the delightfully British habit of building headlines out of terms front the story without connective tissue, resulting in headlines like "Surrey market papaya row murder ex-solicitor fiancee 'relieved'".
posted by jackbishop at 12:02 PM on May 19, 2017 [12 favorites]

This New York Times story is deadly. This is a blatant admission that the firing itself was obstruction.
posted by bearwife at 12:03 PM on May 19, 2017 [61 favorites]

Now this...this is spin:

A third government official briefed on the meeting defended the president, saying Mr. Trump was using a negotiating tactic when he told Mr. Lavrov about the “pressure” he was under. The idea, the official suggested, was to create a sense of obligation with Russian officials and to coax concessions out of Mr. Lavrov — on Syria, Ukraine and other issues — by saying that Russian meddling in last year’s election had created enormous political problems for Mr. Trump.

So according to this official, Trump, who publicly refuses to acknowledge that Russia meddled in the election in any way, and who doesn't have a strategic bone in his body, was trying to extract concessions from Russia by blaming them for his problems? What?
posted by zachlipton at 12:03 PM on May 19, 2017 [13 favorites]

Did the Times literally wait for wheels up and then press publish? Fantastic.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:03 PM on May 19, 2017 [118 favorites]

It has been _0_ days since the last Trump disaster
posted by Twain Device at 12:03 PM on May 19, 2017 [51 favorites]

The Post waited for wheels up too. Russia probe reaches current White House official, people familiar with the case say

The law enforcement investigation into possible coordination between Russia and the Trump campaign has identified a current White House official as a significant person of interest, showing that the probe is reaching into the highest levels of government, according to people familiar with the matter.

The senior White House adviser under scrutiny by investigators is someone close to the president, according to these people, who would not further identify the official.

The ticking...It's getting louder.
posted by zachlipton at 12:05 PM on May 19, 2017 [84 favorites]

Daniel Dale, 2:56 pm ET: Nothing has happened today. This seems unsustainable.

Daniel Dale, 3:01 pm ET: Annnd: wow. Trump told Russia's foreign minister that he had "taken off" Russia pressure by firing "nut job" Comey: (link)
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:05 PM on May 19, 2017 [65 favorites]

If only this was posted sooner; Comey could've taken notes.
posted by Anonymous at 12:06 PM on May 19, 2017

Washington Post just sent an alert that "a White House official close to President Trump is now a person of interest in the Russia probe." Looks like the press was waiting for AF1 to go wheels up today.
posted by stopgap at 12:07 PM on May 19, 2017 [15 favorites]

Hahahaha enjoy your flight, Donald
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:08 PM on May 19, 2017 [41 favorites]

"Current White House Official" = place your bets. My money is on Jared.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:08 PM on May 19, 2017 [30 favorites]

This New York Times story is deadly. This is a blatant admission that the firing itself was obstruction.

It's only deadly if anything has meaning and actions have consequences though, so as non-deadly as all the rest of it.
posted by Artw at 12:08 PM on May 19, 2017 [19 favorites]

yeah, in what fucking universe does Trump think he has the upper hand in that negotiation, if that's what it was? What total fucking idiocy. I mean, I'm no mastermind or diplomat, but it's clear to me that the situation is thus:

Trump: Your election meddling has caused me significant PR and political problems.
Russia: lol yeah, we know. that was the point.
Trump: so you should be nice to me now.
Russia: nah.
Trump: but--
Russia: what're you gonna do about it? anyway, thanks for the oval office visit, we def haven't planted bugs, byeeeeeee.
posted by yasaman at 12:09 PM on May 19, 2017 [64 favorites]

President Trump told Russian officials in the Oval Office this month that firing the F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, had relieved “great pressure” on him, according to a document summarizing the meeting.

“I just fired the head of the F.B.I. He was crazy, a real nut job,” Mr. Trump said, according to the document, which was read to The New York Times by an American official. “I faced great pressure because of Russia. That’s taken off.”

Mr. Trump added, “I’m not under investigation.”

Good Ford, he had no idea what he had just done. No wonder he blundered into spilling classified intel to the Russians in that very same meeting.
posted by Gelatin at 12:09 PM on May 19, 2017 [65 favorites]

Looks like the press was waiting for AF1 to go wheels up today.

Why? Watching the White House blow through six different and contradictory explanations in the space of an hour is part of the entertainment, isn't it?
posted by nubs at 12:09 PM on May 19, 2017 [6 favorites]

“By grandstanding and politicizing the investigation into Russia’s actions, James Comey created unnecessary pressure on our ability to engage and negotiate with Russia,” Mr. Spicer said. “The investigation would have always continued, and obviously, the termination of Comey would not have ended it. Once again, the real story is that our national security has been undermined by the leaking of private and highly classified conversations.”

Crazy. There is simply nothing else to say.
posted by H. Roark at 12:10 PM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

AHAHAHAHA he actually thought that firing the FBI director would solve all his problems.

Jesus Tapdancing Christ, what a moron.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:11 PM on May 19, 2017 [93 favorites]

This New York Times story is deadly. This is a blatant admission that the firing itself was obstruction.

If Trump does have a recording, a subpoena of it would doom him. This year truly is Watergate all over again.

But if the Russians have a recording, as they implied they did, they hold unacceptable leverage over him, even if they didn't before (which they did).
posted by Gelatin at 12:11 PM on May 19, 2017 [14 favorites]

Hope they gold plated the oxygen masks.
posted by Artw at 12:11 PM on May 19, 2017 [6 favorites]

I believe we will have many stories from this trip about the inappropriate things he's said to foreign heads of state--we have the extremely US administration, plus whatever else another nation's folks want to leak out. If he (or one of his party) is extremely insulting to an important dignitary in private, there may be people willing to embarrass him or release words damning in criminal matters.

What an enormous clusterfuck.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 12:11 PM on May 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

Good Ford, he had no idea what he had just done.

Really. It's like he thought the head of the FBI personally runs every investigation by himself.
posted by stopgap at 12:12 PM on May 19, 2017 [11 favorites]

Why? Watching the White House blow through six different and contradictory explanations in the space of an hour is part of the entertainment, isn't it?

No, our nation's great free press knows there's nothing better than a good ol' #HasDonaldLandedYet party on a Friday afternoon.
posted by acidic at 12:12 PM on May 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

Oh, how one wishes to be a fly on the wall of Air Force One for the next 10 hours, as they descend (hopefully) into ragged, bug-eyed madness in a confined space

I have had it with these monkey-fighting leaks on this monday to friday plane!
posted by nubs at 12:12 PM on May 19, 2017 [45 favorites]

In less dramatic but still quite important news: Politico—Trump said to favor move that could destabilize Obamacare

Trump told aides in a Tuesday Oval Office meeting that he wants to end the payments to insurers, according to people familiar with his comments. Trump has previously expressed conflicting opinions on the issue. Insurers have been pressing for certainty as they plan for next year.

Estimated at $7 billion for this year, the payments go to insurance companies to reduce deductibles and other out-of-pocket costs for low-income consumers — an estimated 7 million people in 2017. Insurers are on the hook under the health law to keep paying even if the federal money stops.

posted by zachlipton at 12:14 PM on May 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

/pleasantly reminded of that Fringe epsiode with the big porkupine thing.
posted by Artw at 12:14 PM on May 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

Poor Jon Favreau

Jon Favreau‏ @jonfavs 23h23 hours ago
I'm about to take off for my bachelor party no one release the pee tape this weekend please.

Jon Favreau‏@jonfavs 9m9 minutes ago
Welp, there it is:
posted by Sophie1 at 12:14 PM on May 19, 2017 [25 favorites]

Even if Trump weren't admitting to obstruction of justice in front of people who are happy to leak details of the meeting, the fact that he's openly airing dirty laundry to a foreign power is damning in and of itself. Hell, even if he were doing so to Angela Merkel or Justin Trudeau it would be inappropriate. And Trump *chose* to keep Comey around, so it's one giant self-own. "Hahaha, look at this asshole that I chose to keep around until it became inconvenient!" What a jackass.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:14 PM on May 19, 2017 [13 favorites]

Do we know who's actually on AF1 now? All of them?
posted by neroli at 12:15 PM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

The WaPo person is either Jared or Stephen Miller. I don't care which one.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:15 PM on May 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

The NYT reporters were apparently directly read a transcript of the meeting between Trump and the Russians. Not a summary. Not "this is what happened". A straight transcript.

That's less of a leak and more of a gushing river.
posted by Justinian at 12:16 PM on May 19, 2017 [98 favorites]

Is there any press traveling with Trump on AF1 on this trip? I would love to read a first-hand account later of how the air cabin pressure continually increased over the course of the flight until the oxygen masks popped out.
posted by Kabanos at 12:17 PM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

UH I CARE. In the reality show that is our national nightmare now, it being Kushner would be far more dramatically satisfying and would result in an incredible amount of shit hitting the fan and the swift breakdown of the Trump "family" "unit." You think a single one of those venal fuckers won't immediately turn on each other?
posted by yasaman at 12:18 PM on May 19, 2017 [26 favorites]

@MikeDelMoro: Two scoops at once, just like the President, reportedly, prefers
posted by zombieflanders at 12:19 PM on May 19, 2017 [113 favorites]

Speaking of leaks... as anticipated during the winter, the Svalbard Global Seed Vault has flooded due to melting permafrost. Fortunately, no seeds were lost.
posted by XMLicious at 12:20 PM on May 19, 2017 [30 favorites]

The NYT reporters were apparently directly read a transcript of the meeting between Trump and the Russians. Not a summary. Not "this is what happened". A straight transcript.

is there anyone who'd be in a position to leak stuff like this other than a) Trump's most trusted inner circle people or b) the Russians themselves?
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:20 PM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

Remember that movie "Quarantine," where "a television reporter and her cameraman are trapped inside a building quarantined by the CDC, after the outbreak of a mysterious virus which turns humans into bloodthirsty killers"? I imagine being on AF1 right now is a lot like that movie.
posted by mcdoublewide at 12:20 PM on May 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

It's Friday; the President has left the country; the sun is shining. It's a good day.

And then the ~~murders~~ leaking began.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 12:21 PM on May 19, 2017 [27 favorites]

So exactly who was in the room during this visit, did we ever get a full roster?
posted by Gee Your Hair Smells Terrific at 12:21 PM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

So am I wrong in thinking the existence of a transcript proves there must be a recording of the meeting?
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:22 PM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

Speaking of leaks... as anticipated during the winter, the Svalbard Global Seed Vault has flooded due to melting permafrost. Fortunately, no seeds were lost.

Yeah, we're about to enter the thawing permafrost accelerated phase of global warming as tons of methane get released. We may all be fucked.
posted by Artw at 12:23 PM on May 19, 2017 [17 favorites]

is there anyone who'd be in a position to leak stuff like this other than a) Trump's most trusted inner circle people or b) the Russians themselves?

From what I understand, transcripts could be accessed by people at a variety of agencies who would have reason to see them (e.g., it's been reported that when one of McMaster's deputies saw the Russia leak in the transcript he notified the NSA and CIA; he hadn't been in the room).
posted by janewman at 12:23 PM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

CNN is running hard with the NYT Trump-Russia meeting fiasco while MSNBC is pounding on the WaPo "Senior Trump White House Official under investigation" scoop. This is beautiful.
posted by Justinian at 12:23 PM on May 19, 2017 [37 favorites]

From the NYT article:

Sean Spicer, the White House press secretary, did not dispute the account.

Holy god.
posted by joyceanmachine at 12:23 PM on May 19, 2017 [56 favorites]

In more sobering news: Trump said to favor move that could destabilize Obamacare

As Charles Ornstein puts it (perhaps appropriately given the last half hour): "Trump intends to crash the Obamacare plane."
posted by zombieflanders at 12:24 PM on May 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

Spicer statement.

"Comey created unnecessary pressure on our ability to engage and negotiate with Russia."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:24 PM on May 19, 2017 [21 favorites]

So exactly who was in the room during this visit, did we ever get a full roster?

The best account I've seen is from the WaPo:

There were six people from the U.S. side in the room during the Lavrov meeting: Trump, Tillerson, McMaster and deputy national security adviser Dina Powell, as well as two more junior aides who are subject-matter experts, according to a senior administration official.

posted by peeedro at 12:25 PM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

A transcript doesn't necessarily mean there is a recording device that isn't human. Stenographers can record entire conversations quite easily. manual Gregg story from Atlantic
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 12:25 PM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

I kind of feel like Robert Mueller must be insulted by being appointed Special Prosecutor....like, the man is a professional. This kindergarten shit is below him. There's no "digging" to be done, here. These idiots just do all their illegal shit right out in the goddamn open!
posted by Dorinda at 12:26 PM on May 19, 2017 [26 favorites]

Alright everybody, get in crash positions!
posted by yhbc at 12:26 PM on May 19, 2017 [6 favorites]

Imagine being Trump's stenographer.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:26 PM on May 19, 2017 [17 favorites]

Sean Spicer, the White House press secretary, did not dispute the account.

There are plenty of people willing to lie for someone who will keep their damn mouth shut; a lot fewer people willing to keep lying when you know the person you lie to cover will hit Twitter at 3:00 a.m. to say "Yeah, I totally did that. Would do it again! #MAGA"
posted by Pater Aletheias at 12:26 PM on May 19, 2017 [21 favorites]

Anyone know how to set up an IFTTT or other script to alert me whenever, say, there are more than 20 posts in a 10-minute span in these threads? I don't need to know what just happened, and I really don't want the million false positives of Twitter or Google alerts, but it would be nice to have a quiet "something happened, better check MF yet again" to allow me to take my eyes off the ball in the meantime...
posted by chortly at 12:28 PM on May 19, 2017 [33 favorites]

Imagine being Trump's stenographer.

I used to do qualitative research that required me to transcribe hours and hours of middle schoolers talking about science processes (not science facts, which are easy to regurgitate, but science concepts like "why do we control variables?"). I have a pretty good idea what it's like to be Donald Trump's stenographer.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:29 PM on May 19, 2017 [52 favorites]

"Comey created unnecessary pressure on our ability to engage and negotiate with Russia."

Who is "our" in this?
posted by Artw at 12:30 PM on May 19, 2017 [11 favorites]

Jared Kushner got a waiver to fly because he's shomer shabbat and now he's at 30,000 feet wishing he had kept his fucking mouth shut.
posted by Sophie1 at 12:31 PM on May 19, 2017 [47 favorites]

I fear for the gremlin on the wing of that plane.
posted by Artw at 12:33 PM on May 19, 2017 [35 favorites]

I fear for the gremlin on the wing of that plane.

"Bannon, come back inside this instant!"
posted by Behemoth at 12:34 PM on May 19, 2017 [110 favorites]

Introducing Slate's Impeach-O-Meter (currently at 30%).
posted by Melismata at 12:34 PM on May 19, 2017 [13 favorites]

Ugh, that DoJ C&D is like Schroedinger's Justice. I actually do have massive problems with the way nonprofit legal teams advertise legal help but then won't actually follow the case (see this in housing issues especially), but at the same time there's no way the targeting of that particular nonprofit is just a coincidence.
posted by corb at 12:35 PM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

Jared Kushner got a waiver to fly because he's shomer shabbat and now he's at 30,000 feet wishing he had kept his fucking mouth shut.

Can you imagine having a God-sanctioned excuse to not have to spend a week in the company of trump and then choosing not to take advantage of it??
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:36 PM on May 19, 2017 [26 favorites]

I fear for the gremlin on the wing of that plane.

He's the nicest person there.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:36 PM on May 19, 2017 [29 favorites]

what are the odds that Trump just...never comes back?

Like the plane lands and everyone's like, "What President? We thought he was on the other plane!"
posted by leotrotsky at 12:38 PM on May 19, 2017 [27 favorites]

How long is Trump's flight, because I'm betting WaPo will have Trump's reaction to the scoops from at least two unnamed sources on the plane before it touches ground.
posted by klarck at 12:38 PM on May 19, 2017 [37 favorites]

OK, does anybody know how concerned and/or troubled John McCain is right now? Can someone get him on the phone, I need to know where we are on the John McCain Concern Index. That will help to predict the level of "nothing" produced by Congressional Rs in the next news cycle.
posted by nubs at 12:39 PM on May 19, 2017 [46 favorites]

Am I the only one concerned about this change of tactics from the WH? Yes, I will admit that their previous refutations were incompetent and incoherent, but they seem to be circling the wagons around "the investigation will show no collusion"

why wouldn't they bother trying to fight the optics of this AND tank the investigation at the same time? maybe they think there is no point to the former but im worried its because they know they can do the latter.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 12:39 PM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

Re the internship: in 2015 and 2016 you had to be dedicated to the White House Internship Program. Now it's the entire White House. (My poorly done screenshots are here, or you can compare them for yourself on the Wayback Machine.) They're both kinda creepy but the older one is less so.
posted by The corpse in the library at 12:40 PM on May 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

Like the plane lands and everyone's like, "What President? We thought he was on the other plane!"

The Home Alone re-boot we do not want.
posted by meinvt at 12:40 PM on May 19, 2017 [13 favorites]

DC to Riyadh is more than 12 hours in flight time. Let's just have Hillary Clinton run the country until 4am tomorrow and see how she does, and what we prefer.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:40 PM on May 19, 2017 [53 favorites]

To focus on the healthcare story for a moment:

Many advisers oppose the move because they worry it will backfire politically if people lose their insurance or see huge premium spikes and blame the White House, the sources said. Trump has said that the bold move could force Congressional Democrats to the table to negotiate an Obamacare replacement.

The entire point here is that Republicans are using reconciliation to force a vote on an Obamacare replacement without any Democrats. Republicans in Congress have not solicited the assistance of Democrats to negotiate a deal, do not want Democrat negotiating a deal, and have put no Democrats on the committee that is supposedly negotiating a deal. This leverage that Trump is trying to exert is a dramatic misreading of the Democrats, who aren't going to suddenly start negotiating down people's healthcare because Trump stopped the CSR payments, but it's an even bigger misreading of his own damn party, which doesn't want Democratic help. He's plotting to blow up the healthcare exchanges in a lousy attempt to do something Ryan and McConnell explicitly do not want.
posted by zachlipton at 12:41 PM on May 19, 2017 [30 favorites]

Speaking of leaks... as anticipated during the winter, the Svalbard Global Seed Vault has flooded due to melting permafrost. Fortunately, no seeds were lost.

"Melting permafrost" is my least favorite contradiction in terms.
posted by Gelatin at 12:42 PM on May 19, 2017 [42 favorites]

God, remember those January puff pieces about how Jared is going to be the cool, moderating voice in the White House? It has been a hoot seeing how quickly it has come out that he's been on the wrong side of virtually every decision and is actively steering this whole plane into the mountainside with every bit of hubris the heir to a criminal real estate empire could muster.
posted by Copronymus at 12:44 PM on May 19, 2017 [31 favorites]

Spicer statement.

"Comey created unnecessary pressure on our ability to engage and negotiate with Russia."

That's a cute way to express that he was investigating a criminal, and possibly treasonous, conspiracy.
posted by Gelatin at 12:45 PM on May 19, 2017 [13 favorites]

At this point impeachment seems like a good start. But the rot goes so much deeper, revealing a consequentialist attitude of the GOP that I at least didnt fully appreciate. I have always understood that (R) stands for lower taxes, christian red-meat, pro business. What I didnt understand was how much they are willing to sacrifice to attain these goals. Is "Repeal and Replace" so important to the jane-sixpack-R that she is willing to trade it for the global standing we have literally fought for the last 200 years? Are tax-cuts so important to the boomers that they are willing to sacrifice a free press for it?

How do you even begin to think about this?
posted by H. Roark at 12:45 PM on May 19, 2017 [21 favorites]

How long is Trump's flight, because I'm betting WaPo will have Trump's reaction to the scoops from at least two unnamed sources on the plane before it touches ground.

this is gonna be a fun bottle episode in the inevitable Netflix miniseries
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:45 PM on May 19, 2017 [92 favorites]

Oh, how one wishes to be a fly on the wall of Air Force One for the next 10 hours, as the senior officials of the most powerful nation on earth descend (hopefully) into ragged, bug-eyed madness in a confined tube hurtling through the sky

I suppose this crazy drama we've been watching unfold over the past 100 hours (or years, I can't tell any more) was due for a bottle episode.
posted by Uncle Ira at 12:45 PM on May 19, 2017 [22 favorites]

WASHINGTON — President Trump has decided that his nominee for Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation will be the Libyan city of Benghazi, officials revealed. An unexpected choice, Benghazi would be the first major Muslim figure in the Trump administration, as well as the first Metropolitan Area. "[The President believes] this is a bipartisan decision," said an source close the President, "what with it being Islamist. Great choice, just the most luxurious choice, believe me."
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:46 PM on May 19, 2017 [13 favorites]

DC to Riyadh is more than 12 hours in flight time.

I'm just saying we shouldn't allow any of them back into the country until we can figure out for sure what is going on.
posted by shothotbot at 12:47 PM on May 19, 2017 [96 favorites]

I want to unpack Spicy's statement because what he's actually saying is so incredibly incriminating, but I think that here at least we all get that.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:47 PM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

Jared Kushner got a waiver to fly because he's shomer shabbat

Who is giving him rabbinical waivers?

I don't keep shomer myself, but the only reason someone is supposed to break Shabbat is if someone is sick or dying. In some rare cases, recovering from an illness. The principle is pikuach nefesh -- to save a life.

He's flying to a meeting. No one's life is in danger. He's not supposed to break Shabbat for economic hardships or for work. If he's keeping shomer, then halacha says he should be doing what every other Orthodox Jew does and either fly in before or after Shabbat. That's how it works.

Of course, Kushner can do what he likes. His level of observance and interpretation of the rules is up to him. But it strikes me as pretty weird that an Orthodox rabbi would be "authorizing" such a bending of the rules so Kushner can go to a meeting. He's a prominent, public Orthodox political figure. Why would a rabbi ignore the example Kushner sets not only for other Jews but to outsiders? It makes no sense.

Will he get a waiver to eat ham and cheese sandwiches next?
posted by zarq at 12:50 PM on May 19, 2017 [54 favorites]

Pretty sure they went to Jared.
posted by orrnyereg at 12:52 PM on May 19, 2017 [26 favorites]

He's flying to a meeting. No one's life is in danger.

I assume the idea is everyone's lives are in danger if Trump doesn't have more sensible voices with him.
posted by corb at 12:52 PM on May 19, 2017 [15 favorites]

“I have had it with these monkey-fighting leaks on this monday to friday plane!”

That’s what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps. You don’t want to find a stranger in the Alps do you?

So what are the odds of Pence throwing a party at the White House while Trump's out of the...oh, wait

"What President?..."
Sing "Coney Island Baby" to him. He'll have a heart attack. All that KFC. Strain.
posted by Smedleyman at 12:52 PM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

my assumption was that the Rabbi knew G-d would enjoy seeing that smug dipshit trapped in the plane with Donald and stuck with him through all the fuckups and meltdowns that are sure to go along with this trip
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:53 PM on May 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

Is God going to give a shit that he was flying in a plane, but not that he plays a prominent part in an extremely destructive and exploitative administration?
posted by Autumnheart at 12:53 PM on May 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

I'll place a bet on Pence. This whole administration is tarred, but he has been in the thick of the Russia affair.
posted by bearwife at 12:53 PM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

Who is giving him rabbinical waivers?

This question has been asked, and Kushner has refused to identify his rabbi. For all we know, there might not even be one.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:54 PM on May 19, 2017 [15 favorites]

Zarq - not sure where I read this, but my understanding is that whoever is providing the waivers that being with the president is always keeping with pikuach nefesh - that they are saving lives. It's a real stretch. That eruv is beyond the breaking point.
posted by Sophie1 at 12:54 PM on May 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

Loren D Schulman from the Center for a New American Security posted this tweetstorm a few days ago about the pressures Presidents face when travelling abroad. Hooboy.

So Trump is going on extended foreign travel this week. Some travel context that may influence what happens during his trip: /

Don't underestimate fatigue. Foreign travel schedules are packed, and even minor jetlag can be a huge shock to the system./

This goes for the president, but moreso for his staff, who will, in both DC and on travel, work through POTUS time and DC time./

The news gap is challenging. For a man accustomed to watching cable news all day, foreign POTUS travel will be like sensory deprivation./

Part of it is due to timezones but the other part is that particularly during summits you're away from staff who might otherwise update you./

And even when with staff: just getting everything via blackberry is a really limited way to process crises and events./

(see every time Obama traveled during a terrorist attack in Europe) /

There will be a MUCH smaller group of people surrounding the president. Whoever it is will get last word. AF1 will be packed with staff, but/

alot of it will be trip support staff (both expert & logistical). Esp with Melania there. Assume 3ish senior non natsec folks on travel team/

Everything on a foreign trip is harder. Printing, accessing email, scheduling, prepping the boss, warning him about surprises./

Our foreign counterparts know this, and they've been studying the president. Assume MANY surprise asks will be made in Trump's meetings./

There's lot of pressure during foreign travel to not show up empty handed & to appease hosts. Combine those pressures w/Trump's personality./

So hopefully I've described the environment as tense and stressful and exhausting. Now: put the entire onus on one guy. McMaster./

Most of what can go wrong on foreign travel isn't within the NSA's control, but they are still looked to as point person and first responder/

If there ARE Trump/McMaster tensions, well, this will bring them to fore. And even if there aren't..../

China, Russia, even ISIS and others are very well aware POTUS foreign travel is a great time to pull off a major distraction./

So! Bon voyage, everyone./

I forgot something. Everywhere Trump is going will make it REALLY difficult to protest him. Summits=closed off. KSA, Vatican, nope./

So don't assume angry Euro protests. The exception will be during motorcade movements. And it will be unlike much of his presidency to date./

posted by vac2003 at 12:55 PM on May 19, 2017 [22 favorites]

I'm betting on McGahn. Mentioned in Yates' testimony, defender of Flynn, was with campaign early in 2014.
posted by rc3spencer at 12:55 PM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

It must be really fascinating and horrifying to be a flight attendant on AF1 right about now. Also stupid but real question: Does AF1 have a cockpit door that locks from the inside, or at least one of those plexiglass things taxis have?
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 12:55 PM on May 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

McGahn isn't close to Trump at all, that we know of.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:56 PM on May 19, 2017

I assume the idea is everyone's lives are in danger if Trump doesn't have more sensible voices with him.

I'm a layperson, but I think there's a decent argument to be made that it shouldn't work that way. Pikuach nefesh applies when someone specific is in danger. The underlying assumption is that they are in actual or potentially imminent (not vaguely possible) danger.

Jared being a required, sensible voice seems like an easily-punctured argument.
posted by zarq at 12:56 PM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

The biggest protest I'm hoping for will be from Pope Francis. (He'll keep it subtle though.)
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:57 PM on May 19, 2017 [10 favorites]

If I were on AF1 I'd be looking for an exit door right about now. Parachute preferred but not necessary.
posted by Justinian at 12:57 PM on May 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

Zarq - not sure where I read this, but my understanding is that whoever is providing the waivers that being with the president is always keeping with pikuach nefesh - that they are saving lives.

Pfffffft.

It's a real stretch. That eruv is beyond the breaking point.

Definitely.
posted by zarq at 12:58 PM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

Maybe Trump will get grouchy because Francis lives in a fancier house than he does.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:58 PM on May 19, 2017 [21 favorites]

Pretty sure they went to Jared.

It's instances like these where I wish we had an "favorite, but also kind of anti-favorite" button.
posted by yhbc at 12:59 PM on May 19, 2017 [18 favorites]

Is God going to give a shit that he was flying in a plane, but not that he plays a prominent part in an extremely destructive and exploitative administration?

See also: The entire history of religion.
posted by Artw at 12:59 PM on May 19, 2017 [21 favorites]

Introducing Slate's Impeach-O-Meter (currently at 30%).

Oh, like their Trump Apocalypse Watch was any good in the end.
posted by Doktor Zed at 12:59 PM on May 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

The biggest protest I'm hoping for will be from Pope Francis. (He'll keep it subtle though.)

Mark 8:36 subtle?
posted by Barack Spinoza at 1:00 PM on May 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

Comparison of leading stories currently on CNN, MSNBC, and Fox News.
posted by Justinian at 1:00 PM on May 19, 2017 [44 favorites]

Is God going to give a shit that he was flying in a plane, but not that he plays a prominent part in an extremely destructive and exploitative administration?

Hey, I'm still trying to figure out why in the world anyone thinks G-d would care if I ate a bacon cheeseburger. ;)
posted by zarq at 1:01 PM on May 19, 2017 [10 favorites]

Comparison of leading stories currently on CNN, MSNBC, and Fox News.

To be fair, Fox is just trying to show a visual representation of the Trump Administration's attempts to stop leaks.
posted by drezdn at 1:02 PM on May 19, 2017 [46 favorites]

and, you know, I imagine the source for this info rolling their eyes and making a jacking off motion while talking to the AP reporter.

Or possibly giving it the curly-wurly-tap-tap-cuckoo treatment like (BBC presenter) Andrew Neil did with with Alex Jones (~5:30 in).
posted by Buntix at 1:03 PM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

God just didn't want you to get worms. And keeps hitting "Update later" when notified of a patch upgrade.
posted by Autumnheart at 1:03 PM on May 19, 2017 [18 favorites]

But the rot goes so much deeper, revealing a consequentialist attitude of the GOP that I at least didnt fully appreciate.

Yes, I have experienced a similar awakening. The systems are all secondary to the results they can achieve. The way they handled Merrick Garland's seat was what made me realize this. The base knew they were getting a SCOTUS seat out of this, and that was so important that all the transparent lies and pussy-grabbing paled in significance.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 1:03 PM on May 19, 2017 [17 favorites]

It'd be great if we could just keep him contained in the metal tube indefinitely. They can refuel in mid air, right?
posted by yoga at 1:04 PM on May 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

Sort of like the holodeck transport in the denouement of "Star Trek: Insurrection"? We just beam him into a replica White House and he lives the rest of his life in a simulation, all unknowing?
posted by Autumnheart at 1:05 PM on May 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

They can refuel in mid air, right?

One way to find out.
posted by Capt. Renault at 1:06 PM on May 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

I personally am rooting for the Langoliers.
posted by Atom Eyes at 1:07 PM on May 19, 2017 [41 favorites]

Oh, it didn't work. What a shame.
posted by Autumnheart at 1:07 PM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

It'd be cruel not to at least evacuate the pilots.
posted by Artw at 1:09 PM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

DC to Riyadh is more than 12 hours in flight time.

Everyone on that plane is going to stow their laptops for the flight home, right?
posted by ActingTheGoat at 1:11 PM on May 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

OK, so the possibly implicated list includes Trump, Pence, Ryan, Kuchner, Miller, Flynn, Manafort... but not Bannon? How is it possible that potentially the most racist and vile member of Team Trump is not the one who's the problem here?

He will get his turn, right? It's just because he's a garden-variety racist, and not a thieving, incompetent racist?
posted by GhostintheMachine at 1:13 PM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

Because depressed people don't buy stuff:

Motherboard spoke via email and phone to a source close to Walt Disney Imagineering—the research and development department behind Disney's theme park attractions. And according to the source, Donald Trump will be in the [Hall of Presidents] attraction, but he will probably not have a speaking role, unlike the three presidents immediately before him. The Imagineers will likely revert the attraction to its pre-1993 format, where only George Washington and Abraham Lincoln recited lines, while keeping the more realistic, grounded tone of the current show.

posted by peeedro at 1:15 PM on May 19, 2017 [16 favorites]

Politico: ‘People Here Think Trump Is a Laughingstock’

When European diplomats meet these days, they often swap stories about Trump—and how to manage their volatile new ally. “The president of the United States has a 12-second attention span,” NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg told a former senior official in April after meeting Trump in the Oval Office. Not only that, this person told me, the president seemed unprepared and ill-informed, turning the conversation to North Korea and apparently unaware that NATO is not a part of the ongoing North Korea saga.
...
NATO has downgraded the May 25 session to a meeting from a summit and will hold only a dinner to minimize the chances of a Trump eruption. Leaders have been told to hold normally windy remarks to just two to four minutes to keep Trump’s attention. They are even preparing to consider a “deliverable” to Trump of having NATO officially join the U.S.-led coalition fighting the Islamic State in Syria, as Trump has said his priority is getting NATO to do more in combating terrorism. “It’s a phony deliverable to give to Trump, a Twitter deliverable,” said a former senior U.S. official, pointing out that the individual NATO member states are already members of that coalition.

A Trump photo-op with a chunk of the World Trade Center has been choreographed in hopes of convincing the president who called NATO “obsolete” to reaffirm the basic principles of an organization committed to the mutual security of its members. The World Trade Center wreckage is part of a memorial to the victims of the 9/11 attacks at NATO’s new headquarters that Trump is set to officially open (though the building is not in fact finished), and NATO observers hope he will use the occasion to finally endorse the principle in Article V of the NATO Treaty that requires countries to treat an attack on one NATO country as an attack on all – an article that has only been invoked once in the organization’s history: after 9/11. “The purpose of the 9/11 memorial opening is to try to get Trump to mention the Article V commitment, since how can he get around it? It’s the only time Article V was ever used,” the former official said.

This is viewed as an especially crucial moment for Trump to do so, given his stated goal of working more closely with Russia even as Russia threatens neighboring states like the three Baltic countries that are now NATO members. But Trump has resisted it, and as Thomas Wright of the Brookings Institution has reported, “Trump’s failure to endorse Article V is not an oversight. Members of his cabinet have unsuccessfully tried to insert this language into his remarks, including at his meeting with Stoltenberg.”

Now, they are finally hoping he will do so – but have no promise.

I pulled a bit longer of a quote here, because I think there's an important point buried therein. The easy takeaway is the laugh line, the short attention span and everyone treating the President like a small temperamental child. But there are way deeper problems that are masked by the incompetence, and his refusal to endorse Article V and promise to honor NATO's commitments to defend Eastern Europe against Russia is one of the most significant ones. Now NATO officials are trying to manipulate him into a situation where he has to, somehow believing despite all available evidence that he's the kind of person who does the obligatory thing that's expected of him. The "oh ha ha he's so incompetent" stories are easy, but the iceburgs beneath the surface have millions of lives on the line.

Bonus story: Donovan dropping out as Trump's nominee for deputy Treasury secretary. Wants to focus on his family. Another one bites the dust; bit of a hard pitch to get people to sign on to this sinking ship.
posted by zachlipton at 1:15 PM on May 19, 2017 [42 favorites]

Comparison of leading stories currently on CNN, MSNBC, and Fox News.

I wonder if that hurts their ratings. Even if you're a Trump supporter, aren't you interested in what's happening?
posted by leotrotsky at 1:17 PM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

I wonder if that hurts their ratings. Even if you're a Trump supporter, aren't you interested in what's happening?

If it were important to you to have a complete and accurate understanding of current affairs, how could you be a Trump supporter in the first place? This isn't an issue. They want more of what Fox feeds them.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 1:19 PM on May 19, 2017 [24 favorites]

One bombshell a day was getting to be too normal, so WaPo and NYT hit us with the double. I can't decide which article I prefer. On one hand it's hard to beat “I faced great pressure because of Russia. That’s taken off." On the other hand, the WaPo article paints such a lovely picture of the tightening net.
posted by diogenes at 1:20 PM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

No. Trump supporters are NOT interested in what's happening. That's why they support Trump.
posted by agregoli at 1:20 PM on May 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

I wonder if that hurts their ratings. Even if you're a Trump supporter, aren't you interested in what's happening?

Not really. My Tennessee uncle who still proudly supports 45 has no idea who Comey is.
posted by mochapickle at 1:20 PM on May 19, 2017 [11 favorites]

And according to the source, Donald Trump will be in the [Hall of Presidents] attraction

This is the kind of thing that still punches me in the gut. I don't even give a shit about Disneyland but oh my god, Donald fucking Trump will be an anamatronic figure in the Hall of Presidents. Like, alongside Abraham Lincoln. Fuck this reality man.
posted by supercrayon at 1:23 PM on May 19, 2017 [71 favorites]

Alabama Poised to Restore Voting Rights for Thousands with Felony Convictions: Earlier this week, a bill, called the Definition of Moral Turpitude Act, passed through both houses of Alabama’s legislature.

As The Birmingham News originally reported:

By redefining "moral turpitude," the bill would effectively restore "thousands" of felons' right to vote. Rather than continuing to be loosely interpreted as referring to every felony but a list of five that includes driving under the influence and aiding and abetting, the term would refer to less than 50 specific "felonies that involve moral turpitude which disqualify a person from exercising his or her right to vote. The bill's text states that it would…ensure that no one is wrongly excluded from the electoral franchise."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:24 PM on May 19, 2017 [58 favorites]

Mediaite - Fox News Ratings Slip As the Network Minimizes Biggest Stories

Hollywood Reporter - TV Ratings: Trump Crisis Intensifying, CNN and MSNBC Again Beat Fox News
posted by GhostintheMachine at 1:24 PM on May 19, 2017 [27 favorites]

I still can't get over this quote: "I faced great pressure because of Russia. That’s taken off."

I think he actually really and truly believed that he could fire Comey, the pressure would be off, and Democrats would rejoice because we hated Comey for getting Trump elected. It's not that his policies are bad or that he says awful and/or stupid things; it's that his basic understanding of situations is so completely different from how everyone else sees the world, and these comically awful misreadings result in absurdity.
posted by zachlipton at 1:26 PM on May 19, 2017 [27 favorites]

This attempt to characterize Comey as a "nutjob", "showboat", etc. is such an astoundingly bad idea.

My opinion of James Comey is still complicated after the Hillary thing, but my take on him changed after recently watching his hearing during the 2007 Bush wiretapping scandal

I had largely forgotten that event in which GWB was trying to pressure Ashcroft to sign legal paperwork while he was in the hospital suffering from acute pancreatitis. I had also forgotten Comey's role in preventing this from happening.

His testimony is absolutely riveting, better than any legal drama I've seen on the movies or tv.

Watch this intense video if you want to see how Comey handles himself in public testimony.

He's the furthest thing from a nutjob and this video actually gave me some hope, which is in rare supply these days.
posted by jeremias at 1:26 PM on May 19, 2017 [52 favorites]

I just realized that Comey and Mueller are going to become the biggest heroes in the history of the FBI. Way bigger than Eliot Ness.

I mean, taking down a Siberian President through careful note taking and investigation, while in the belly of the beast? Literally saving the country from a treasonous administration? They're going to be what every trainee in Quantico wants to grow up to be.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:27 PM on May 19, 2017 [39 favorites]

God, remember those January puff pieces about how Jared is going to be the cool, moderating voice in the White House? It has been a hoot seeing how quickly it has come out that he's been on the wrong side of virtually every decision and is actively steering this whole plane into the mountainside with every bit of hubris the heir to a criminal real estate empire could muster.

I'm starting to wonder if he's intentionally trying to get Trump impeached, at this point.
posted by DynamiteToast at 1:27 PM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

I wonder if that hurts their ratings. Even if you're a Trump supporter, aren't you interested in what's happening?

Definitely not. Know-nothingism is a core facet of Trumpism. Trump Nation is very much in "la la la can't hear you fake news deep state benghazi" mode right now.
posted by EatTheWeek at 1:28 PM on May 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

Is "Repeal and Replace" so important to the jane-sixpack-R that she is willing to trade it for the global standing we have literally fought for the last 200 years? Are tax-cuts so important to the boomers that they are willing to sacrifice a free press for it?

Some of them, yes. But many of them are convinced by Fox News that it's Democrats who want to destroy freedom of speech (look how mean they are to Milo!) and our global standing (look at Obama's apology tours!)

Whatever threats Trump poses to those is surely not as bad as the threat posed by the liberals, they reckon.

No. Trump supporters are NOT interested in what's happening. That's why they support Trump.

Vox: “I just choose to not listen”: why Trump supporters are tuning out the scandals TL;DR -- cognitive dissonance is really uncomfortable, and most people avoid it whenever possible.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:28 PM on May 19, 2017 [12 favorites]

Trump-Russia probe now includes possible cover-up, Congress is told
posted by stopgap at 1:28 PM on May 19, 2017 [48 favorites]

I'm starting to wonder if he's intentionally trying to get Trump impeached, at this point.

I can't understate how much I'm looking forward to Jared getting a longer prison sentence than his daddy. He has to understand that his fate is intimately tied to Trump's, and if Trump goes down so does he.

I'm also enjoying Fox's political activism damaging their standing in the news network competition. I hope this shit is hammering their bottom line.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:30 PM on May 19, 2017 [12 favorites]

Trump-Russia probe now includes possible cover-up, Congress is told

They probably knew that.
posted by Melismata at 1:31 PM on May 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

> "...Donald Trump will be in the [Hall of Presidents] attraction, but he will probably not have a speaking role,..."

Can't they just hang a perpetual "Out of Order" or "Broken" sign around his neck?
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 1:31 PM on May 19, 2017 [23 favorites]

> Trump-Russia probe now includes possible cover-up, Congress is told

At this point, even Nixon's head-in-a-jar is like "seriously, you idiots, have you learned nothing?"
posted by tonycpsu at 1:32 PM on May 19, 2017 [12 favorites]

For whatever it's worth, Yashar Ali says Jared Kushner is the guy in the White House being investigated.

This was the White House's worst-case scenario: that they couldn't keep this contained to Flynn and the investigation spreads to another current official. It's happening.
posted by zachlipton at 1:32 PM on May 19, 2017 [48 favorites]

Ana Marie Cox says there are 18 journalists on AFO. A year from now, look for the FPP: "An Oral History of the trip to Riyadh".
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:33 PM on May 19, 2017 [53 favorites]

but not Bannon? How is it possible that potentially the most racist and vile member of Team Trump is not the one who's the problem here?

Weren't we just TOLD that Bannon was under investigation?

I'm pretty sure it's Bannon they're talking about. Gotta be.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:34 PM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

I was hoping Bannon, but Kushner makes sense. His family is actively making (or trying to make) huge deals netting them millions with foreign powers, and they're not even hiding it.
posted by msalt at 1:35 PM on May 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

The principle is pikuach nefesh -- to save a life.

I actually read about this .... somewhere. My understanding/memory is that the justification was that, since he's working vanguard of I/P reconciliation, that's functionally saving lives.
posted by absalom at 1:36 PM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

the term would refer to less than 50 specific "felonies that involve moral turpitude which disqualify a person from exercising his or her right to vote.

Depending on which ones are in there (hoping rape is, for example) that could be a great compromise! Looks like Kay Ivey(R) is likely to sign it, as well.
posted by corb at 1:36 PM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

I just realized that Comey and Mueller are going to become the biggest heroes in the history of the FBI. Bigger than Eliot Ness.

Ness was a Prohibition Agent and not a part of the FBI.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 1:37 PM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

Think Kushner is willing to go to prison to protect Trump?
posted by azpenguin at 1:37 PM on May 19, 2017

Going to prison is a Kushner family tradition.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 1:38 PM on May 19, 2017 [29 favorites]

This morning's tweet from the Washington Post to the New York times has a beautiful new significance this evening.
posted by Emily's Fist at 1:39 PM on May 19, 2017 [110 favorites]

>Think Kushner is willing to go to prison to protect Trump?

I don't think anyone is willing to go to prison to protect Trump, hence everyone in his White House willing to blab at the drop of a hat to show they weren't complicit.
posted by Tevin at 1:39 PM on May 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

I fear for the gremlin on the wing of that plane.

"Bannon, come back inside this instant!"

Come on, the gremlin has gotta be Stephen Miller.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:39 PM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

Alabama Poised to Restore Voting Rights for Thousands with Felony Convictions

This is one of my key political issues. Every citizen should get to vote. Everyone. If you're in prison, they should bring you a ballot there and make it an official polling place. As you near your release date, you should be given the opportunity to gain whatever photo ID or other documents are necessary to vote in your state. Because if people convicted of crimes aren't allowed to vote, then a sufficiently immoral regime can maintain power by making sure that their opponents are convicted of crimes at a disproportionate rate. That is, of course, exactly what happens in America. Disenfranchisement of convicts is just one facet of the current incarnation of Jim Crow.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 1:40 PM on May 19, 2017 [169 favorites]

Think Kushner is willing to go to prison to protect Trump?

Kushner isn't even willing to stop briefing against his staff and policy initiatives.
posted by jaduncan at 1:41 PM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

Because if people convicted of crimes aren't allowed to vote, then a sufficiently immoral regime can maintain power by making sure that their opponents are convicted of crimes at a disproportionate rate.

QFMFT

Everyone should retain the right to vote in all circumstances.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:42 PM on May 19, 2017 [33 favorites]

The exterior of Trump's hotel in Riyadh has a giant projection of Trump's face, King Abdullah [I believe], and hands shaking in the middle. The whole thing is setup to appeal to his "dealmaking" ego.
posted by zachlipton at 1:42 PM on May 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

Does the president's itinerary include any asylum countries?
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:42 PM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

This morning's tweet from the Washington Post to the New York times has a beautiful new significance this evening.

Bwahahaha! Goddamn, I love social media.
posted by Autumnheart at 1:43 PM on May 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

Watch this intense video if you want to see how Comey handles himself in public testimony.

He's the furthest thing from a nutjob and this video actually gave me some hope, which is in rare supply these days.

It's fun to see people who think before they talk.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 1:44 PM on May 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

I don't think anyone is willing to go to prison to protect Trump, hence everyone in his White House willing to blab at the drop of a hat to show they weren't complicit.

I'm sure they know that he'll sell them out in an instant given ...his entire lifetime of past behavior. He's basically the Philip Seymour Hoffman character from Scent of a Woman. What a surprise it'll be when he finds out that there's no biggest fish he can sell out to save his hide (because I doubt he's figured it out yet).

He wanted to be the biggest, most important guy in the room. Not where you want to be during a criminal investigation.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:45 PM on May 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

There's no way Trump hasn't expressed his musk glands in that plane. Kushner's probably squirted ink all over the place, too. Hope the onboard journalists dressed for a Gallagher show.
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:45 PM on May 19, 2017 [34 favorites]

Does the president's itinerary include any asylum countries?

You appear to have misspelled 's'.
posted by Buntix at 1:45 PM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

A year from now, look for the FPP: "An Oral History of the trip to Riyadh".

I'd go with "Riyadhers on the Storm"
posted by srboisvert at 1:46 PM on May 19, 2017 [59 favorites]

Think Kushner is willing to go to prison to protect Trump?

I really want to know what self-proclaimed "Daddy's girl" Ivanka will do if and when she finds out that the daddy in question expects the love of her life and the father of her three children to go to prison to protect him. Will she lose her mind and go rogue, or will she just accept that it's Jared's duty as one of the Trump family retainers?
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 1:46 PM on May 19, 2017 [11 favorites]

Can't they just hang a perpetual "Out of Order" or "Broken" sign around his neck?

What neck?
posted by loquacious at 1:46 PM on May 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

A certain Suzanne Vega song is playing on repeat in my head: When Heroes Go Down.
posted by medusa at 1:47 PM on May 19, 2017 [6 favorites]

Am I insane to think that with everything that has happened this week and last week that Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan's next conversation with Donald Trump might include the words "impeachment," "resign," and "we hope you make the right choice?"

I think it's just going to be the usual chorus of fellatio noises ala Jerk City.

HLAGLHAGLHAG
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 1:47 PM on May 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

FiveThirtyEight: This Trump-Russia Investigation Could Last For Years
posted by graymouser at 1:49 PM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

Hey Metafilter Mixologists, what should I put in a Nut Job tonight to celebrate this nice day of awful news for Trump?
posted by DynamiteToast at 1:51 PM on May 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

Am I insane to think that with everything that has happened this week and last week that Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan's next conversation with Donald Trump might include the words "impeachment," "resign," and "we hope you make the right choice?"

I say this with the utmost respect and compassion, but that sounds awfully close to "surely this."
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 1:51 PM on May 19, 2017 [17 favorites]

Have some live updates!!

NBC’s Hallie Jackson Trump Trip Notebook: We’re On Our Way
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:51 PM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

My understanding/memory is that the justification was that, since he's working vanguard of I/P reconciliation, that's functionally saving lives.

It doesn't work that way. No one would die if they didn't get on that plane. They could have flown yesterday. They could fly tomorrow night. There is no pikuach nefesh grounds that I can think of that apply here - even the dubious one they used during the night of the inauguration ball - that their own safety would be at risk if they walked (to which 999/1000 rabbis would have responded Then don't go) - doesn't apply here. Until whichever actual rabbi gave this opinion comes forward and explains their thinking, I am going to assume they're lying. Because I don't know who is willing to put their name on this, and it has HUGE ramifications for other Orthodox Jews.

Not saying there isn't someone - there's almost always someone who will give you the opinion you want if you try hard enough - but until they come forward, and are willing to risk their reputation on it, I think it's fair to doubt their veracity on this one.
posted by Mchelly at 1:51 PM on May 19, 2017 [16 favorites]

From that 538 interview:

Number one, the president is insulated politically so that it’s hard to get the president’s staff and counsels to turn on the president.

Yeah, about that....
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:52 PM on May 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

Will she lose her mind and go rogue, or will she just accept that it's Jared's duty as one of the Trump family retainers?

Are you kidding? She'd be so fast with the shiv on Dad he won't even notice until he's dead. I mean, there's a moderately good chance Jared is actually capable of expressing human love and affection.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:52 PM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

Hey Metafilter Mixologists, what should I put in a Nut Job tonight to celebrate this nice day of awful news for Trump?

Old-fashioned with pecan bitters?
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 1:54 PM on May 19, 2017 [15 favorites]

Am I insane to think that with everything that has happened this week and last week that Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan's next conversation with Donald Trump might include the words "impeachment," "resign," and "we hope you make the right choice?"

Not insane, but maybe kind of naive. Just imagine the most craven, self-serving, morally bankrupt do-nothing "action" Ryan and McConnell can possibly take. That is what they will do. Keep your expectations at that level, and no higher. They are both incapable of doing otherwise.
posted by yasaman at 1:55 PM on May 19, 2017 [19 favorites]

The best thing we can hope for is a long, long investigation which keeps the White House and the Republicans in disarray and cements their mendacity in the minds of voters. Who wants President Pence? What we want is a good couple of years where it's difficult to change things, followed by a swift Trump collapse, short Pence presidency and a Democratic win. This all needs to go on long enough for Pence to get good and implicated.
posted by Frowner at 1:56 PM on May 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

Hey Metafilter Mixologists, what should I put in a Nut Job tonight to celebrate this nice day of awful news for Trump?

Frangelico and vodka.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:56 PM on May 19, 2017 [15 favorites]

Hey Metafilter Mixologists, what should I put in a Nut Job tonight to celebrate this nice day of awful news for Trump?

Old-fashioned with pecan bitters?

Oooh, that's a pretty good idea. My only contribution would be to use a high-proof Beam product (Booker's comes to mind) since they usually have a pretty strong peanut flavor for me, and maybe go with a chocolate bitters. I call it a Peanut Butter Cup but Nut Job has a nice ring to it.
posted by cybertaur1 at 1:56 PM on May 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

zarq: "I don't keep shomer myself, but the only reason someone is supposed to break Shabbat is if someone is sick or dying"

There's actually another concept called Karov L'Malchus, which basically means "close to the King." They don't have to rely on the pikuach nefesh exception.
posted by callmejay at 1:58 PM on May 19, 2017 [10 favorites]

The best thing we can hope for is a long, long investigation which keeps the White House and the Republicans in disarray and cements their mendacity in the minds of voters. Who wants President Pence? What we want is a good couple of years where it's difficult to change things, followed by a swift Trump collapse, short Pence presidency and a Democratic win. This all needs to go on long enough for Pence to get good and implicated.

Ok but we all might be dead from riding this rollercoaster by then.
posted by emjaybee at 1:58 PM on May 19, 2017 [20 favorites]

Or you could make an Orange Russian, Thai iced tea + vodka (basically a White Russian, subbing Thai tea + condensed milk for the coffee-based Kahlua + cream).
posted by cybertaur1 at 2:00 PM on May 19, 2017 [18 favorites]

I just realized that Comey and Mueller are going to become the biggest heroes in the history of the FBI. Bigger than Eliot Ness.

Ness was a Prohibition Agent and not a part of the FBI.

Even better. Everybody in a tough job benefits a heroic benchmark to model themselves against. My point is these guys (Comey & Mueller) are about to get effectively canonized by the FBI. And given that they're taking down a racist, sexist, traitor, I figure that's setting a good example for future agents to model themselves on. A hell of a lot better than J. Edgar Hoover eavesdropping on civil rights leaders.

Any time another nativist asshole starts getting ambitious, thousands of FBI ears that have been trained on the story of Comey and Mueller will begin to prick up and get very interested.
posted by leotrotsky at 2:01 PM on May 19, 2017 [15 favorites]

Who wants President Pence?

I want president Anyone But Trump, and I want Sessions, Bannon, DeVos, and Wilbur Ross (at least) out on their asses. (And yeah, I'm not sure I can survive another three years of stress eating.)

If Trump goes, by whatever means, Pence will be plenty humiliated and politically impotent. We don't need to keep Trump around to make the Republican administration ineffective. It will be that anyway. But I would rather the US government get back to some minimal level of actually functioning. And as always when this comes up... remember the nukes.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:02 PM on May 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

Heather Havriletsky came up with a drink recipe for an ImpeachMint:

Peach Nectar (3 oz)
Absolut Apeach (1 oz)
2 sprigs fresh mint
juice of 1 lime
grated fresh ginger (1 t)
agave (1 t)
posted by emjaybee at 2:04 PM on May 19, 2017 [36 favorites]

But is it even possible for Pence to stay if* Trump goes? He's clearly dirt as fuck, and at that point the warding shields of obliviousness that protect Rs from knowing that will well and truly be gone.

* spit
posted by Artw at 2:04 PM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

Phillip Bump recapped the last two weeks for Trump in one glorious timeline. Make yourself a Nut Job cocktail (or, if you prefer the classics, a Mazel Tov Cocktail) and review the "nearly unrelenting disaster of bad decisions and bad news."
posted by zachlipton at 2:05 PM on May 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

I still can't get over this quote: "I faced great pressure because of Russia. That’s taken off."

I think he actually really and truly believed that he could fire Comey, the pressure would be off, and Democrats would rejoice

I don't think he could possibly fit more cluelessness into 10 words. There's the cluelessness you just described, and then there's the additional layer of being unaware that talking about obstruction isn't a great idea.
posted by diogenes at 2:05 PM on May 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

There's actually another concept called Karov L'Malchus, which basically means "close to the King." They don't have to rely on the pikuach nefesh exception.

Oh wow! Thanks for this! Had no idea.
posted by zarq at 2:05 PM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

Robert Mueller (2017, colorized)
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:06 PM on May 19, 2017 [16 favorites]

Or you could make an Orange Russian, Thai iced tea + vodka (basically a White Russian, subbing Thai tea + condensed milk for the coffee-based Kahlua + cream).

For authenticity's sake you need to add some lemon juice to make sure the cream curdles.
posted by leotrotsky at 2:06 PM on May 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

There's actually another concept called Karov L'Malchus, which basically means "close to the King."

That a huge stretch too, though - it generally means if the King orders you to do something on shabbat, you can obey. It's not supposed to be used premeditatively -- they still could have flown earlier.

My husband is saying maybe it's pikuach nefesh for the rest of us - getting them out of the country is good for the rest of us staying alive ;)
posted by Mchelly at 2:08 PM on May 19, 2017 [10 favorites]

it's pretty easy to fall into a trap of thinking the events of the past 10 days (the rough equivalent of a millenium, in current political time) mean things are going to be ok,

On election night I had the same feeling I had waking up on 9/11, overwhelmingly "things will never be the same". "We'll get over this", "things will be OK" like someone gets over a shark attack, or more to the point, like someone in your family cut off one of your limbs on purpose. It will heal.

We're going through what many countries have gone through in the last century. If we thought there was something special about this country that has been shown to be wishful thinking.
posted by bongo_x at 2:09 PM on May 19, 2017 [11 favorites]

Israeli Intelligence Furious Over Trump’s Loose Lips
Just days before President Donald Trump’s arrival in Tel Aviv, Israeli intelligence officials were shouting at their American counterparts in meetings, furious over news that the U.S. commander in chief may have compromised a vital source of information on the Islamic State and possibly Iran, according to a U.S. defense official in military planning.
posted by PenDevil at 2:10 PM on May 19, 2017 [20 favorites]

I really want to know what self-proclaimed "Daddy's girl" Ivanka will do if and when she finds out that the daddy in question expects the love of her life and the father of her three children to go to prison to protect him. Will she lose her mind and go rogue, or will she just accept that it's Jared's duty as one of the Trump family retainers?

She'll hire an additional nanny.
posted by srboisvert at 2:10 PM on May 19, 2017 [14 favorites]

Only ordering from the child menu and throwing a tantrum when the mac and cheese has noodles the wrong shape is not an underlying class dynamic.

Elbow macaroni is the opiate of the peoples, man
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:11 PM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

it made me realize that for every one of us who are spending every night glued to Twitter, there are probably two people who don't have any idea about any of it.

I think your bubble is thicker than you know, I think there many times as many people who don't know anything about it.

Unless all the skirt-wearers of Fox News live on a boat

Coming this fall.
posted by bongo_x at 2:12 PM on May 19, 2017 [6 favorites]

more rabbinical law hacks less cocktails

I think the simplest solution is a world eruv.
posted by srboisvert at 2:13 PM on May 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

Israeli Intelligence Furious Over Trump’s Loose Lips

How is Netanyahu doing politiucally these days? Any chance clinging to Trump will sink him?
posted by Artw at 2:14 PM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

I really want to know what self-proclaimed "Daddy's girl" Ivanka will do if and when she finds out that the daddy in question expects the love of her life and the father of her three children to go to prison to protect him

I suspect that Ivanka's reaction will depend primarily on the terms of DJT's will, and on the terms of the pre-nup with Kushner. Also, Ivanka has spent all of her 30+ years catering to her father's every whim, versus only about a decade with Jared. I think it's entirely likely she would toss Kushner over the side in order to stay with Daddy because the payoff would be bigger.

But again: it depends. I expect she may well be consulting with her lawyers as I type this. I would, if I were her.
posted by suelac at 2:15 PM on May 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

Comparison of leading stories currently on CNN, MSNBC, and Fox News.

Now to be fair to Fox News, a pic of a gaping hole in a dam counts as covering this story . . . figuratively if not literally.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:15 PM on May 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

Here's your 5pm hour fun times boom: Trump told aides firing Flynn was a mistake: Trump, several people close to him say, sometimes appears to question decisions even after they’ve been made. He told New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie that he could still be labor secretary even after he’d publicly named Alexander Acosta to the role. He privately told former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani he could potentially still name him as attorney general after he’d offered Jeff Sessions to the job.

But the Flynn situation has been different, several officials and advisers said. “I was kind of stunned,” one person said. “I asked him. You fired him already. What are you going to do?”

Robert Kelner, a lawyer defending Flynn, didn’t respond to several calls seeking comment.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:15 PM on May 19, 2017 [13 favorites]

I think the simplest solution is a world eruv.

I'm wondering if you could pull some sort of shenanigan with the cable of a space elevator to claim the whole planet was covered by a single eruv.

Edit: I love the internet and that I'm not the first person to think of this.
posted by zachlipton at 2:17 PM on May 19, 2017 [6 favorites]

Hey, DynamiteToast, you could make this thing and rename it "nutjob." It's got delicious nut flavor, it's twisted, and it's totally ginned up, like the claim that Comey's crazy and all the other bullshit Trump spins all day.
posted by Don Pepino at 2:19 PM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

It was super fun to see the thread unread count ticking up by ones and twos and then suddenly exploding gloriously as AF1 took off and the NYT and WaPo hit Publish on their stories. Glorious.

But before I even get to read the linked stunningly bad two weeks round-up, I have to look at the photo of the Trumps getting on the helicopter, and somehow that caption ("President Trump and first lady Melania Trump board Marine One") feels like yet another gut-punch.

Remember back at the convention, when Melania Trump delivered a plagiarized speech? I remember the embarrassment I felt for the USA, and the feeling of relief that it was a temporary thing, and we'd soon have the Trumps relegated to a minor footnote, less significant than Bob Dole or Mitt Romney.

Instead: President Trump and first lady Melania Trump.
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:20 PM on May 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

My husband is saying maybe it's pikuach nefesh for the rest of us - getting them out of the country is good for the rest of us staying alive ;)

A sanity break!

As opposed to our usual break from sanity.

Meanwhile, Trump's going to give a speech about Islam in Saudi Arabia. Where they execute people for apostasy. Gonna be a fun week.
posted by zarq at 2:21 PM on May 19, 2017

From upthread:

Not only that, but also, Trump's appeal to many of his voters, his obvious contempt for political norms and traditions, is also part of the reason he's so corrupt, incompetent, and destructive. I don't know how to communicate this connection except to retroactively send people to civics class.

My experience as a high school social studies teacher (and frequent substitute science teacher) pushes me to remind everyone that we've been under the high-stakes-testing regime for over 16 years now. These tests focus on language arts and math, meaning schools are compelled to emphasize those subjects even at the expense of others.

Know what academic subjects have been de-emphasized as a result? Science and social studies, meaning history and civics. Again, over 16 years now.

And here we are.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:22 PM on May 19, 2017 [78 favorites]

This was the White House's worst-case scenario: that they couldn't keep this contained to Flynn and the investigation spreads to another current official. It's happening.

Gee, where have I heard that before? Oh, right:

We have a cancer within -- close to the presidency, that's growing. It's growing daily. It's compounding. It grows geometrically now, because it compounds itself.

posted by FelliniBlank at 2:23 PM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

Tomorrow I'm having my annual Running of the Bulls party for all my May Baby friends who have birthdays this month (including me. I forgot to announce my wish here) and I am damn sure serving ImpeachMint Punch and announcing a moment of concentrated mental ill will towards this entire bunch of buffoons from my attendees. Cheers!!
posted by thebrokedown at 2:23 PM on May 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

Man, I wish could be as joyous as y'all are. Mostly I'm cringing with embarrassment and thinking that we most probably have three more years of this shit.
posted by angrycat at 2:28 PM on May 19, 2017 [20 favorites]

Israeli Intelligence Furious Over Trump’s Loose Lips
Just days before President Donald Trump’s arrival in Tel Aviv, Israeli intelligence officials were shouting at their American counterparts in meetings, furious over news that the U.S. commander in chief may have compromised a vital source of information on the Islamic State and possibly Iran, according to a U.S. defense official in military planning.

A U.S. defense official is reporting shouting Israelis as a juicy bit of news?
posted by srboisvert at 2:28 PM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

Forget the cocktail recipes, who is going to define Nut Job: the Kinky Sex Act?
posted by msalt at 2:29 PM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

The flight from hell. On the plane:

First Lady Melania Trump
National Security Adviser H.R. McMaster
Secretary of State Rex Tillerson
Secretary of Defense James Mattis
Ivanka Trump
Jared Kushner
Chief Strategist Steve Bannon
Chief of Staff Reince Priebus
Press Secretary Sean Spicer
Deputy Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders

and a dozen sequestered reporters with flight attendants enforcing a DMZ. (This is just a guess)

I figure their ETA is 5 AM EDT/12 noon in KSA and the program immediately starts with coffee, followed by a large luncheon and an afternoon of meetings, then a big dinner.

And Jared was responsible for the schedule.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 2:30 PM on May 19, 2017 [20 favorites]

Man, I wish could be as joyous as y'all are. Mostly I'm cringing with embarrassment and thinking that we most probably have three more years of this shit.

Bad things happening to Trump is better than bad things not happening to Trump.
posted by diogenes at 2:31 PM on May 19, 2017 [20 favorites]

Know what academic subjects have been de-emphasized as a result? Science and social studies, meaning history and civics. Again, over 16 years now.

And here we are.

And yet the kids who voted still voted smarter than the older adults who were educated from before the testing-pocalypse.
posted by srboisvert at 2:31 PM on May 19, 2017 [58 favorites]

Know what academic subjects have been de-emphasized as a result? Science and social studies, meaning history and civics. Again, over 16 years now.

We can't blame the current state of electoral ignorance on Millennials let down by the public education system. These low information voters are majority Boomers and Gen X. And most of these low information voters are willfully putting themselves in the Fox News/Breitbart/Infowars echo chamber.
posted by Existential Dread at 2:31 PM on May 19, 2017 [40 favorites]

Know what academic subjects have been de-emphasized as a result? Science and social studies, meaning history and civics. Again, over 16 years now.

Counterpoint: If only people below the age of 45 had been allowed to vote Trump would have lost. Bigly.
posted by Buntix at 2:32 PM on May 19, 2017 [40 favorites]

So how do Christie and Giuliani react when the President offers them jobs that have already been filled by other people? I mean, just at a human level, what do you say to that?
posted by zachlipton at 2:34 PM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

And Jared was responsible for the schedule.

Aaaand there goes the karov l'malchus argument...
posted by Mchelly at 2:35 PM on May 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

Josh Marshall on the NYT article:

the substance of this conversation is that Comey is someone Trump took care of. He’s on the other team from Trump and Lavrov and Kislyak who are familiars... Comey was a troublemaker who Trump took out and Trump’s confiding in, bragging about it to Lavrov and Kislyak. This mindset, this sense of who’s on which team, who you can confide in makes explicit collusion encounters during the campaign vastly more plausible than they were a couple of hours ago.
posted by diogenes at 2:36 PM on May 19, 2017 [40 favorites]

*checks breaking news alert*
Oh, that's just about how Antarctica is going to melt and flood major world cities. No biggie.

Wait, what?
posted by zachlipton at 2:38 PM on May 19, 2017 [22 favorites]

So how do Christie and Giuliani react when the President offers them jobs that have already been filled by other people? I mean, just at a human level, what do you say to that?

One of them sulked back to its kennel and the other screeched and ran back to a hole in the siding.
posted by Artw at 2:39 PM on May 19, 2017 [13 favorites]

And yet the kids who voted still voted smarter than the older adults who were educated from before the testing-pocalypse.

Hey, I'm not saying us teachers haven't been working our asses off in spite of it all. :)
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:39 PM on May 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

Oh, that's just about how Antarctica is going to melt and flood major world cities. No biggie.

See? Those dumbass scientists were wrong about being able to stop Global Warming and we were right not to listen to them!
posted by Artw at 2:40 PM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

Crumbs. Is it time for a new thread yet?
posted by orrnyereg at 2:42 PM on May 19, 2017

How is Netanyahu doing politiucally these days? Any chance clinging to Trump will sink him?

Answering the second question first: Doubtful. Israelis see that Trump is anti-Muslim, which gives him right wing appeal. If Trump falls, that's not going to be Netanyahu's fault or problem. Although there's a decent possibility that Trump could screw up the best intelligence relationship on the planet simply by not knowing when to keep his mouth shut.

Regarding Netanyahu.... his popularity (and that of Likud) has been slipping since January to a man named Yair Lapid, who is the founder of another political party: Yesh Atid. (It means, "There is a Future" in Hebrew.) Lapid jokingly calls himself an "extreme moderate" and is taking various positions which seem calculated to appeal to the Israeli left and right wingers. That may very well sink Netanyahu and Likud in the long run: Strong on Israel's security, strongly nationalistic, "responsible centrism" (stop divisive extremist politics), improving the economy and a government free of corruption. That last one's important.

Netanyahu and Likud have been enjoying unprecedented peacetime popularity because Labor has pretty much collapsed. But there have been investigations into Netanyahu and various claims of corruption in recent months. They haven't gone away. So a candidate who tells Israelis that he'll clear out corruption in government and the Knesset will be appealing.

Meanwhile, he's working the global room, so to speak. He's met and is friendly with Macron in France. He met with Congressional Democrats in March. He's speaking with centrist leaders in Western countries and pinning his hopes on the pendulum swinging away from the right winger Brexiters and Trumpers and Le Pen supporters.

Elections aren't scheduled until 2019. Polls show that if they were held today, Lapid and Netanyahu would be neck and neck. But Yesh Atid would probably either take a majority of seats or have equal numbers with Likud. Should be interesting to see what happens.

One last thing: Lapid's in favor of a two state solution, but apparently wants there to be a separation between Israelis and Palestinians. What that realistically means is anyone's guess. But this is what he told Politico in March: Lapid: Well, the question is what’s Israel’s policy—Israel’s policy? And Israel’s policy has been for quite a while—and I totally support this—the state solution. We need to separate from the Palestinians. But the main issue for every Israeli is the security of the Israeli people. I’m not sure people understand how post-traumatic we are from the disengagement. Because we’ve done anything the world has ever asked us to do. In 2005, we had completely withdrawn from Gaza and we dismantled all of the settlements that were there. And we gave them the territory that they’ve asked for.

And you know what? We left 3,000 greenhouses for them to be able to start building an economy for themselves. And instead, they’ve demolished the 3,000 greenhouses and since then, fired more than 15,000 rockets over Israel and built terror tunnels and Hamas, a terrible, terrible—and they elected Hamas. Hamas was not—didn’t take Gaza by force. They elected Hamas, a terrible terror organization that has in its manifest, 13 times the call for the total destruction of Israel. So we can’t allow this to happen, you know, five miles from our Knesset and Jerusalem and our capital. And we need to be able to promise our children that separating from the Palestinians doesn’t mean having another ISIS-like state on our border. And that’s the main issue. Because morally, practically, whatever word you want to choose, the majority of Israelis even today believes that the two-state solution and the separation from the Palestinians is the right way to go about it.

posted by zarq at 2:43 PM on May 19, 2017 [19 favorites]

Crumbs. Is it time for a new thread yet?

I think we're waiting for the speech.
posted by Artw at 2:43 PM on May 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

I can't get over the fact that this only made a tiny ripple yesterday and it's already been subsumed:

Conversations between members of Trump's team and high-ranking officials including setting up a special backchannel for communications between the President and Putin, Reuters reported. That would allow the two talk without involving US national security officials.
posted by diogenes at 2:44 PM on May 19, 2017 [68 favorites]

Well, there;s things we know, things that have been confirmed, and things that have been confirmed to the point that even Republicans have to acknowledge them. That one is at 2 but not quite 3 yet?
posted by Artw at 2:46 PM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

WaPo, making explicit something that was on my mind:

Republicans warn that special inquiry will impede parallel congressional probes. Ample precedent suggests otherwise.

During Bill Clinton’s presidency, there were no fewer than seven investigations, led by independent counsels, looking into the behavior of his administration and its top officials. Throughout, Republicans controlling Congress kept up the pace of their own probes.
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:46 PM on May 19, 2017 [30 favorites]

This really seems like a bad time to spend the next 3 1/2 weeks off the grid. I'm so going to be Tehund.

If I never catch up to real time reading, thank you to those that create these threads and to everyone who posts in them. You've gotten me through the last few months. I know it isn't popular, but I am Team Live Post the Press Conferences so thank you to those that have listened an shared the nuggets from those.

Also, my birthday is Tuesday and I love cake so Let's Do This!
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 2:46 PM on May 19, 2017 [36 favorites]

Trump said to favor move that could destabilize Obamacare

One important detail about this story. If they stop making the cost sharing reduction payments, insurance companies (in most states, state regulators are a factor here) would be well within their rights to drop coverage immediately, like next month, for millions of people. The payments are essentially part of the premiums for health plans, just paid by the government. If you don't pay your premiums, insurers, of course, drop your coverage, so more-or-less the same thing applies if the government fails to pay its share of the premiums.

This isn't some kind of game or posturing for negotiations; it's very directly about whether millions of people have health care next month. Because if the government doesn't pay its bill, it's over.
posted by zachlipton at 2:47 PM on May 19, 2017 [38 favorites]

Sigh... I've got that mid-2016 feeling again, the feeling that the poisonous Right is burying itself in the sands of history.

Last time I felt like this, turned out I was the one with my head in the sand.

Taking a pre-emptive break from these threads again.
posted by infinitewindow at 2:50 PM on May 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

This really seems like a bad time to spend the next 3 1/2 weeks off the grid.

This guarantees impeachment or resignation within that time frame, does it not? CoffeeHikeNapWine, your sacrifice will not go unrecognized.
posted by contraption at 2:52 PM on May 19, 2017 [25 favorites]

The Independent confirms (and lots of reporters on Twitter too) that the "person of interest" is Jared Kushner.
posted by stopgap at 2:54 PM on May 19, 2017 [43 favorites]

This isn't some kind of game or posturing for negotiations; it's very directly about whether millions of people have health care next month. Because if the government doesn't pay its bill, it's over.

Thought 1: This is unspeakably fucking horrifying.

Thought 2: We knew before he took office that Trump was perfectly fine with terminating insurance coverage for his own deceased brother's desperately ill baby, so this is completely unsurprising.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 2:55 PM on May 19, 2017 [21 favorites]

"...Donald Trump will be in the [Hall of Presidents] attraction, but he will probably not have a speaking role,..."

Can't they just hang a perpetual "Out of Order" or "Broken" sign around his neck?

Or just put a cage with a rabid ferret in his spot.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 2:55 PM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

The Independent confirms (and lots of reporters on Twitter too) that the "person of interest" is Jared Kushner.

How long does it take to process an Aliyah application again?
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:57 PM on May 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

Though the context is almost the opposite, every time I think of the Republicans in Congress, Im reminded to Casey talking to Gordon on Sports Night ...

Casey McCall: No, I was just reading this "New York Times" piece on the forensic evidence, the ballistics match, the eyewitnesses, and the 78 hours worth of wiretaps, a portion of which included the defendant saying, "I killed him. I killed him. I killed him dead"... and was wondering what the heck a fella has to do to get thrown in jail on your watch."
posted by jacy at 2:57 PM on May 19, 2017 [13 favorites]

CNN: Between Trump and his national security adviser lie 'ferocious' internal politics

The source added that McMaster's task -- being an honest broker of various national security options for the President -- is further complicated by fears on the National Security Council that Trump can be reckless with sensitive information.

"You can't say what not to say," the source said of Trump, "because that will then be one of the first things he'll say."
...
"He's there to be the adult in the room," the source said, describing the national security adviser job as difficult when other voices, especially Bannon, challenge McMaster's sober policy recommendations with "emotions from the campaign. The President then doesn't know what to pursue."

The source said, "the last voice to speak to the President usually wins."
...
Another bright spot, the source said, is that the NSC directorates are more emboldened to ignore controversial White House adviser Sebastian Gorka, whose security clearance is at an unclear status and whose views on national security matters are not taken seriously by many experts.
"Folks in the NSC have caught on and are talking to him less," the source said. "That's a good news story."

When it was suggested that that wasn't really much of a good news story, the source said, "well, that's where we are."

posted by zachlipton at 2:58 PM on May 19, 2017 [32 favorites]

The Independent confirms (and lots of reporters on Twitter too) that the "person of interest" is Jared Kushner.

With Kushner trapped on AF1 on his fake Shabbos pass, I feel like the phrase "where is your God now" was basically created for this situation
posted by saturday_morning at 2:58 PM on May 19, 2017 [27 favorites]

Watch this intense video if you want to see how Comey handles himself in public testimony.

He's the furthest thing from a nutjob and this video actually gave me some hope, which is in rare supply these days.

Wow. I'm a lawyer and over 30 years I've heard hundreds of people give evidence. I've never heard such an impressive witness. Comey has incredible powers of recall, and his level of detail and calm delivery makes his testimony completely credible. If he testifies like this about his dealings with Trump, it has to be game over. (But then again, there've been so many 'surely this' moments ...)
posted by essexjan at 2:59 PM on May 19, 2017 [71 favorites]

"There needs to be an investigation to find out if anyone in the Trump administration has ties to America." - WaPo commenter
posted by porn in the woods at 3:03 PM on May 19, 2017 [141 favorites]

Tell your god to ready for blood.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:03 PM on May 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

But wait, there's more. CNN Exclusive: White House Lawyers Researching Impeachment. It's on live, waiting for a link.

"White House lawyers have begun researching impeachment procedures to prepare for "distant, unlikely" occurrence"
posted by zachlipton at 3:04 PM on May 19, 2017 [41 favorites]

Please, please tell me there will be someone there to photograph the faces of everyone coming off Air Force One the moment it touches down.
posted by yasaman at 3:05 PM on May 19, 2017 [45 favorites]

Just wanna real quick take this opportunity, while we're all enjoying our cocktails of choice that we've ceremonially renamed Nut Jobs, to flash the thread back to that time LESS THAN TWO FUCKING MONTHS AGO when intrepid journalist Ashley Feinberg tracked down what was probably James Comey's secret Twitter.

My, how far we've come together.
posted by penduluum at 3:07 PM on May 19, 2017 [23 favorites]

Ok here we are: CNN—Sources: White House lawyers research impeachment

White House officials believe the President has the backing of Republican allies in Congress and that impeachment is not in the cards, according to the people briefed on the legal discussions. Even Democrats have tried to calm impeachment talk out of concern it is premature.

But lawyers in the White House counsel's office have consulted experts in impeachment during the past week and have begun collecting information on how such proceedings would work, a person briefed on the matter told CNN.

So much damn winning they're just brushing up on how impeachment works.
posted by zachlipton at 3:08 PM on May 19, 2017 [59 favorites]

"There needs to be an investigation to find out if anyone in the Trump administration has ties to America." - WaPo commenter

Someone get that person a Metafilter account
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:08 PM on May 19, 2017 [80 favorites]

"White House lawyers have begun researching impeachment procedures to prepare for "distant, unlikely" occurrence"

or they had until recently believed "impeachment" to be some sort of fruit-related calamity
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:09 PM on May 19, 2017 [10 favorites]

"White House lawyers have begun researching impeachment procedures to prepare for "distant, unlikely" occurrence"

Can we put a little tracker pixel thing on the Wikipedia page for Impeachment and see if anyone from the White House visits it? Because that's what I assume is happening right now.
posted by acidic at 3:09 PM on May 19, 2017 [15 favorites]

Hey Metafilter Mixologists, what should I put in a Nut Job tonight to celebrate this nice day of awful news for Trump?

Vodka (natch!), vanilla, shrub mix, in a tall tall glass.
posted by rc3spencer at 3:11 PM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

As reported earlier, this assault on Americans' access to healthcare is a whole different of treason.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:13 PM on May 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

Managed to block politics pretty effectively over the last few weeks (election here is relentlessly grim), though this did mean moving to a new twitter account, being very efficient with muting and blocking across social media, avoiding TV news, not looking at newspapers in the shops, training my housemate (carrot and stick) to shut up about politics, and enjoying the brief English summer a lot with only my camera and no Internet-devices at all.

But have just had a look for the first time at the US political news and heck! That explains the hyper-commenting, still, on MetaFilter. Though news showed him off for an eight day trip somewhere so hopefully that will be relatively free of international incident and... {notices BBC news story}

...The trip takes in the capitals of the three major monotheistic religions - Islam, Judaism and Christianity...

There's going to be incidents, aren't there?

{Wanders over to archive to looking fondly at a post written a year ago today: innocent times.}
posted by Wordshore at 3:13 PM on May 19, 2017 [6 favorites]

Bottom shelf vodka and dark chocolate almond milk here
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:13 PM on May 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

or they had until recently believed "impeachment" to be some sort of fruit-related calamity

"But I won Georgia. It was a great, great result!"
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:13 PM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

Good point: "This report gives lawmakers way more leeway to say the word "impeachment." If the White House is doing it..."
posted by zachlipton at 3:14 PM on May 19, 2017 [14 favorites]

The U.S. Education Department said on Friday it was changing its approach to student-loan servicing, awarding a contract to handle outstanding debts to one company.

I wonder how that singular company would attempt to curry favor with the administration?
posted by H. Roark at 3:14 PM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

But if the Russians have a recording, as they implied they did, they hold unacceptable leverage over him, even if they didn't before (which they did).

this is from way upthread, but

what is striking to me is that if this transcript checks out, lavrov and kislyak would have blackmail material to hold over trump.

except trump was too stupid to realize that admitting to firing comey to end the russian investigation would look incredibly incriminating.

trump saved himself from a foreign power having leverage over him by being too dumb not to incriminate himself.

this fucking timeline, folks.
posted by murphy slaw at 3:15 PM on May 19, 2017 [68 favorites]

CNN: White House Lawyers Reaearching Impeachment

I think the way it works is if half the House and two-thirds of the Senate feel like it they can kick your ass to the curb with no judicial review
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:17 PM on May 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

CNN: White House Lawyerd Reaearching Impeachment

Perhaps they should be researching resignation instead. It's....easier, I'm told.
posted by Existential Dread at 3:19 PM on May 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

...The trip takes in the capitals of the three major monotheistic religions - Islam, Judaism and Christianity...

He's not going to Mecca. I don't think most Muslims identify Riyadh as their capital. WTF, Beeb?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:20 PM on May 19, 2017 [12 favorites]

Yeah, that is weird. Sure, Jerusalem is pretty inarguably the center for Judaism, but Mecca is not Riyadh (and "holy city" is not quite the same as "capital", anyway"), and for Christianity one could argue Jerusalem, Constantinople, Rome, or none of the above.
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:24 PM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

> Please, please tell me there will be someone there to photograph the faces of everyone coming off Air Force One the moment it touches down.

TASS, no doubt.
posted by Westringia F. at 3:24 PM on May 19, 2017 [10 favorites]

I think the way it works is if half the House and two-thirds of the Senate feel like it they can kick your ass to the curb with no judicial review

Considering that no pres has yet been convicted of impeachment, I expect the first one to do so (be the first Trump! YOU CAN DO IT!) will likely file suit challenging it on some ground or other and the Supremes will have to make a decision.
posted by dis_integration at 3:25 PM on May 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

Forget the cocktail recipes, who is going to define Nut Job: the Kinky Sex Act?

I believe "Nut Job" may be one term for what one should reasonably expect as retaliation for a pussy grab.
posted by nickmark at 3:25 PM on May 19, 2017 [35 favorites]

Robert Reich, on Facebook, suggested an action stronger than impeachment. Below is the full text of the post

There are already ample grounds to impeach Donald Trump. If, in addition, it is found that Trump or his aides colluded with Russian operatives to rig the presidential election of 2016, the nation should consider a step beyond impeachment: The annulment of the Trump presidency.

I'm not talking about airbrushing Trump out of history, as former Soviet dictatorships used to treat leaders who fell out of favor. I'm referring to action that officially negates the Trump presidency as an historic error.

The Constitution doesn’t mention a presidential annulment, but it is within Congress’s power to enact a bill that voids all actions that Trump has taken as president. This would include everything Trump did on his own -- including all executive orders and all regulations or repeals of regulations since his inauguration. (The confirmation of Neil Gorsuch to the Supreme Court would not be included in the annulment because it entailed Congressional action.)

The bill of annulment would also stipulate that henceforth, all official listings of presidents of the United States would note that the Donald Trump presidency had been annulled. And the president who replaces Trump (presumably, Michael Pence) would officially be listed as the forty-fifth president of the United States.

Some will argue that we shouldn't even be considering such a thing until or unless Trump is impeached. But I think it useful to consider the possibility earlier than that. Nixon was impeached* for covering up a two-bit burglary. If Trump was involved in Russia's rigging of the 2016 election -- the most serious attack on American democracy in history -- the appropriate response requires something more. (And would give voters even more incentive to flip Congress in 2018 even if by then Trump is well on the way to being impeached.)

What do you think?

* or chose to resign rather than be impeached.
posted by ZeusHumms at 3:26 PM on May 19, 2017 [77 favorites]

Actually, oh, look, they did that already.
posted by dis_integration at 3:27 PM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

I wonder how soundproofed the rooms are on AF1. Is it possible to hold a screaming row without the press corps overhearing?
posted by orrnyereg at 3:27 PM on May 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

Robert Reich, on Facebook, suggested an action stronger than impeachment.

jesus christ liberals, focus.

this is like talking about what color to make the drapes in the oval office in january 2021.
posted by murphy slaw at 3:30 PM on May 19, 2017 [71 favorites]

Could someone hook that Robert Reich post straight into my vein, please? Thank you.
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:32 PM on May 19, 2017 [11 favorites]

jesus christ liberals, focus.

Hey, that Overton window's not going to shift all by itself you know.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 3:33 PM on May 19, 2017 [63 favorites]

One of the many reasons that Reich idea is fun but silly is, how is Congress going to compel a federal agency to have a certain set of regulations? Unless we're talking about transforming those regulations into law, which is a whole different level of clusterfuckery. Let's just be thankful that if Trump is removed from office, he is unlikely to have any major legislative accomplishments.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:35 PM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

The Daily Beast with tonight's evening gripe session: Trump Officials: ‘He Looks More and More Like a Complete Moron’

“I’m glad I’m not on the plane so I could be here to answer your Russia questions,” a senior Trump administration official said, sarcastically, before abruptly hanging up.
Trump’s remarks quickly elicited groans, and some harsh words, from senior officials who did speak with The Daily Beast.

“If Donald Trump gets impeached, he will have one person to blame: Donald Trump,” one of those administration officials said.
...
“Trump himself hasn’t been implicated in any of these leaks except where he’s implicated himself, where he says something that makes his perhaps less-than-sterling intentions clear,” said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity in order to discuss the controversy candidly. “He keeps saying there’s no collusion, and I think he’s right. So if he would just shut his trap, what would Dems have?”
“Okay, he fired Comey,” the official conceded. “With a semi-competent comms operation, that would blow over in 24 hours. And that’s the worst part: he has a competent comms staff. But they can’t do their jobs because he keeps running his mouth.”
...
Trump’s repeated media missteps have frustrated even longtime supporters. “Every day he looks more and more like a complete moron,” said one senior administration official who also worked on Trump’s campaign. “I can’t see Trump resigning or even being impeached, but at this point I wish he’d grow a brain and be the man that he sold himself as on the campaign.”

Asked whether an administration staff change-up would ameliorate this latest crisis, a Republican source formerly involved with a pro-Trump political group told The Daily Beast, “yes, if it comes with a frontal lobotomy for Trump.”
...
Asked whether those comments could be construed as intent to interfere in the FBI’s investigation, a Justice Department official told The Daily Beast, “absolutely.”
...
“On a big case like this, the ideal thing would be a wiretap on your number one subject,” Gomez added. “But in this case, you don’t need a wiretap. He just comes right out and says it.”

I don't know how The Daily Beast winds up with the most dramatic griping, but they manage to get these quotes several times a week now. Why are these people still working for him?
posted by zachlipton at 3:36 PM on May 19, 2017 [53 favorites]

Do we really want to establish a precedent for annulling the entirety of a president's actions?
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 3:36 PM on May 19, 2017 [15 favorites]

Every day he looks more and more like a complete moron

This is like when football coaches talk about giving 110%
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:37 PM on May 19, 2017 [6 favorites]

Do we really want to establish a precedent for annulling the entirety of a president's actions?

Trump's giving it a good go, so fair is fair.
posted by Artw at 3:38 PM on May 19, 2017 [12 favorites]

The Daily Beast with tonight's evening gripe session: Trump Officials: ‘He Looks More and More Like a Complete Moron’

Hooraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay! I was really jonesing for a little slice of Welcome to Hell!
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:42 PM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

Do we really want to establish a precedent for annulling the entirety of a president's actions?

If that's limited to Presidents who commit treason to win said Presidency, I'm alright with that.
posted by leotrotsky at 3:42 PM on May 19, 2017 [24 favorites]

Trump’s reported comments to the Russian officials could support allegations that he fired Comey in order to slow or put a stop to an investigation probing his campaign’s contacts with the Russian government—allegations that the White House vehemently denies.

If the most important mouthpiece of "the White House" has confirmed this is why he fired Comey, is it really that vehement?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:42 PM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

“I’m glad I’m not on the plane so I could be here to answer your Russia questions,” a senior Trump administration official said, sarcastically, before abruptly hanging up.

We're glad too, Reince.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:43 PM on May 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

Mister Priebus is on the plane...
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:44 PM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

Reuters: White House looking at ethics rule to weaken special investigation: sources

Within hours of Mueller's appointment on Wednesday, the White House began reviewing the Code of Federal Regulations, which restricts newly hired government lawyers from investigating their prior law firm’s clients for one year after their hiring, the sources said.

An executive order signed by Trump in January extended that period to two years.

Mueller's former law firm, WilmerHale, represents Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner, who met with a Russian bank executive in December, and the president's former campaign manager Paul Manafort, who is a subject of a federal investigation.

Legal experts said the ethics rule can be waived by the Justice Department, which appointed Mueller. He did not represent Kushner or Manafort directly at his former law firm.

If the department did not grant a waiver, Mueller would be barred from investigating Kushner or Manafort, and this could greatly diminish the scope of the probe, experts said.
...
Even if the Justice Department granted a waiver, the White House would consider using the ethics rule to create doubt about Mueller's ability to do his job fairly, the sources said. Administration legal advisers have been asked to determine if there is a basis for this.

Under this strategy, the sources said the administration would raise the issue in press conferences and public statements.

Moreover, the White House has not ruled out the possibility of using the rule to challenge Mueller’s findings in court, should the investigation lead to prosecution.

So let me get this straight. We learned today that Jared is the guy under investigation, and the White House is now trying to stop Mueller from investigating Jared. I cannot imagine a larger, brighter flashing neon sign saying "go after Jared" than that.
posted by zachlipton at 3:45 PM on May 19, 2017 [95 favorites]

Comey will testify in an open session. (link is to a twitter statement)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:46 PM on May 19, 2017 [53 favorites]

The Daily Beast with tonight's evening gripe session: Trump Officials: ‘He Looks More and More Like a Complete Moron’

turns. out.
posted by entropicamericana at 3:47 PM on May 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

I don't think they thought their cunning plan all the way through.

It's like a stupider Blackadder presidency.
posted by Justinian at 3:47 PM on May 19, 2017 [19 favorites]

“Okay, he fired Comey,” the official conceded. “With a semi-competent comms operation, that would blow over in 24 hours. And that’s the worst part: he has a competent comms staff. But they can’t do their jobs because he keeps running his mouth.”

BREAKING: unnamed official is dramatic, dumb, and probably part of the problem.
posted by acidic at 3:47 PM on May 19, 2017 [31 favorites]

Legal experts said the ethics rule can be waived by the Justice Department, which appointed Mueller.

The official deciding this would be Rosenstein, and one would hope he would not have appointed a special counsel unless he wanted him to fully investigate the matter at hand.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:48 PM on May 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

Mister Priebus is on the plane...

Oh gosh, I totally overlooked him on the list . . . which probably happens to him 5 times a day in the White House. (Now there's a guy who could blend into the drapes without even trying.)
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:49 PM on May 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

"With a semi-competent comms operation, that would blow over in 24 hours. And that’s the worst part: he has a competent comms staff. But they can’t do their jobs because he keeps running his mouth."

says a SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL who is RUNNING HIS MOUTH to the press
posted by murphy slaw at 3:49 PM on May 19, 2017 [38 favorites]

I don't know how The Daily Beast winds up with the most dramatic griping, but they manage to get these quotes several times a week now. Why are these people still working for him?

I picture Dan Egan wandering around an empty White House and picking up any phone that starts ringing.
posted by jeremias at 3:50 PM on May 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

Donald Trump will be in the [Hall of Presidents] attraction, but he will probably not have a speaking role

that's a shame because "No puppet! No puppet! You're the puppet!" would be perfect.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 3:52 PM on May 19, 2017 [103 favorites]

says a SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL who is RUNNING HIS MOUTH to the press

That reminds me of a time when I had to wait an hour at a US Post Office, and one employee apologized with "I'm sorry, they're just so disorganized around here" as he wrote down my name and address with blank ink on the palm of his hand.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 3:52 PM on May 19, 2017 [18 favorites]

and one would hope he would not have appointed a special counsel unless he wanted him to fully investigate the matter at hand.

ehhhhhhhh.... I guess we'll see.
posted by Artw at 3:53 PM on May 19, 2017

How long does it take to process an Aliyah application again?

Oh please, with yichus like Jared has, maybe he'll never come back.
posted by Sophie1 at 3:54 PM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

I'm wondering if you could pull some sort of shenanigan with the cable of a space elevator to claim the whole planet was covered by a single eruv.

I was thinking about how you link up a geosynchronous constellation of solar power satellites to do the same thing... ( Think about Nivean "Shadow Squares", but either outside the earth's orbit or encircling the earth.

I love my MeFi cohort. I am NOT ALONE!
posted by mikelieman at 3:55 PM on May 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

Reuters: BREAKING: Senate Intelligence Committee says former FBI Director Comey agrees to testify in open session - statement
posted by maudlin at 3:56 PM on May 19, 2017 [14 favorites]

Comey will testify in an open session.

Hooooowee! The statement says after Memorial Day, but I sure hope they announce the specific date soon so I can arrange to take a vacation day.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:56 PM on May 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

Is it wrong to hope that this brings down Scott Adams too, somehow?
posted by drezdn at 3:58 PM on May 19, 2017 [83 favorites]

Mueller's former law firm, WilmerHale, represents Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner, who met with a Russian bank executive in December, and the president's former campaign manager Paul Manafort, who is a subject of a federal investigation.

...

Under this strategy, the sources said the administration would raise the issue in press conferences and public statements.

Let me get this straight: their strategy is to insinuate that Mueller is too chummy with Jared and Manafort to investigate them fairly?
posted by theodolite at 3:58 PM on May 19, 2017 [16 favorites]

I don't know if I want to take a vacation day or to beg if we can watch it in the conference room.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:00 PM on May 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

Exactly. "Mueller has a conflict of interest. Congress should be the ones investigating this instead" and try to hand everything over to the warm DGAF embrace of Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell.
posted by zachlipton at 4:01 PM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

Well, here's #Trump team's official receipt to @RepCummings promising to "review your letter carefully
-- @OversightDems

but i thought pence never saw that letter
posted by murphy slaw at 4:02 PM on May 19, 2017 [40 favorites]

Know what academic subjects have been de-emphasized as a result? Science and social studies, meaning history and civics. Again, over 16 years now.

Add in the massive drop in military service and politicians are going to be very different in 20 years.

> Maybe I'm taking it out of context, but offering food your guests like to eat looks like a hospitality.

Sure, if we are talking about inviting people over to your home for dinner. This is a state dinner which means the country in question usually pulls out all of the stops to wow their guests by showing off the local delicacies and highlight cultural dishes. Imagine if the WH invited the Japanese Prime Minister and served up Maryland crab cakes and Maine lobster and Texas beef and the Prime Minister requested a bowl of noodles for dinner.

It's fine to cater to someone's medical or religious food preferences but serving POTUS some crappy American food in Saudi Arabia is not really hospitality-- it is acknowledging that Trump is unable to adapt himself to other cultures and experiences. It would be funny if all of the other guests get some local specialty for dessert and Trump gets served Chocolate cream pie with two scoops of ice cream.

> Can you imagine having a God-sanctioned excuse to not have to spend a week in the company of trump and then choosing not to take advantage of it??

And that brings us to the interesting topic of Jared's relationship with his father-in-law. If you recall he got a waiver to travel on Shabbat to be with Trump just after pussygate came out. It is my belief that Jared and Ivanka are caretakers and they have convinced their rabbi that Trump needs them by his side during times of stress.

But besides acting as his caretaker, I have to wonder what Jared Kushner's exact feelings and relationship are and I do think we will be discovering them as we go forward with the investigation. How much of what Trump does and thinks has been Jared (with Ivanka's assistance) whispering in his ear? In other words, how much control does Jared have over Trump? It may be more than Trump realizes if Jared knows how to manipulate him.

Think of how strange this. That this young man never had to run for office, never had to deliver a speech or convince voters that he was the right man for the job. Yet, Jared may be POTUS in every way that counts. I think Bannon lost the struggle for control and Jared won and Trump is the dummy in the middle.

SLofG's Nut Job: splash of Macadamia Nut liqueur, squeeze of lime, 4 oz margarita mix, 2 oz 100 proof vodka. Result: tart but with a smooth finish that leaves the nut flavor lingering in your mouth. Would make again!
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:02 PM on May 19, 2017 [12 favorites]

I don't know if I want to take a vacation day or to beg if we can watch it in the conference room.

The latter would work, as long as they let you play drinking games in the conference room.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:02 PM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

"I wish he’d grow a brain and be the man that he sold himself as on the campaign.”

Since that "man" was a brainless maroon also, I'm wondering if this ding-dong official isn't mistaking DJT for someone else. Then again, I can't think of anyone in that Repub campaign line-up of male-identifying persons who WASN'T a brainless maroon, so just who the hell is he talking about?
posted by droplet at 4:03 PM on May 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

Disney should use the Access Hollywood tape for the Trump Animatron.
posted by EarBucket at 4:03 PM on May 19, 2017 [35 favorites]

Well, here's #Trump team's official receipt to @RepCummings promising to "review your letter carefully
-- @OversightDems

but i thought pence never saw that letter

Meredith strikes again.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:06 PM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

but i thought pence never saw that letter

You'd think he'd have seen it considering the high importance this administration places on certified letters.
posted by drezdn at 4:06 PM on May 19, 2017 [15 favorites]

Comey will testify in an open session. (link is to a twitter statement)

This is hands down the best news of the day.

(See my earlier comment for context.)
posted by jeremias at 4:08 PM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

Comey won't testify until sometime after Memorial Day though. Will we have enough 5pm bombshells to keep us in a perpetual state of shock until then?
posted by zachlipton at 4:09 PM on May 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

Dear Senate Intelligence Committee: my birthday is June 5. Just saying
posted by theodolite at 4:11 PM on May 19, 2017 [6 favorites]

Signs point to yes.
posted by drezdn at 4:11 PM on May 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

Oh, forgot to say; library-twitter has been alive today with the official announcement of who the closing speaker is at the annual American Library Association conference in June, this year in Chicago.
posted by Wordshore at 4:12 PM on May 19, 2017 [35 favorites]

we have enough 5pm bombshells to keep us in a perpetual state of shock until then?

donald trump, infamous homebody and home pooper, xenophobe and moron, is on a 9 day diplomatic tour.

i think we'll be fine.
posted by murphy slaw at 4:14 PM on May 19, 2017 [36 favorites]

Merkel stood up to the Saudi royals re: the hijab during her recent visit. They put censorship over her hair on the news broadcasts.

It's already been said but here's the Snopes link—they rate the hair censorship claim "FALSE".

Ugh. I really hate seeing headlines (and hearing the CBC) say that Sweden has "dropped" the Assange case. To many people, that reads as exoneration of Assange.

PBS Newshour, via an ITN correspondent, also said the same, played footage of Assange making a balcony address, and left out the detail that he has in no way been exonerated. It's shameful.
posted by XMLicious at 4:16 PM on May 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

I'll put money on the toddler taking his toys and going home before Comey's testimony, and issuing a mass pardon on his way out the door.
posted by Dashy at 4:17 PM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

My big question right now is whether this weekend's sputtering crazy-ass ragetweets will be on Eastern time or Riyadh time.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:19 PM on May 19, 2017 [12 favorites]

It's like the end of a game of Tetris that was going okay, until it wasn't okay, and then the blocks start piling up, and then you stop caring, and then you lose.
posted by tillermo at 4:25 PM on May 19, 2017 [44 favorites]

I really really want somebody with "youth culture" cred, upon meeting Trump, to hold out a hand for a high five and greet him warmly with "What up, Home Pooper?"
posted by contraption at 4:26 PM on May 19, 2017 [26 favorites]

Foreign Policy: Can Trump Pardon Himself? If the current president has proved anything, it’s that there’s a first time for everything.

No president has ever tried to pardon himself, let alone been prosecuted after trying to pardon himself, so no court has had a chance to rule on the validity of self-pardons. Nixon considered pardoning himself just before he resigned. His lawyer advised him that he had the power, but Nixon decided against it. President Bill Clinton rendered the issue moot by reaching a settlement with his special prosecutor the day before he left office (and pardoned 140 people other than himself).

If a court ever did consider the issue, the decision could go either way because there are reasonable arguments on both sides. The president (or ex-president by the time he would be prosecuted) would have a very simple case that his self-pardon was valid: There is nothing in the Constitution that explicitly forbids it.

Arguments against: No such thing as appealing for pardon from oneself, seeking pardon is seeking something from others. No one can be their own judge and jury. Also a self-pardon might be construed as a crime--obstruction of justice. Ultimately the Supreme Court would hear the case and decide the constitutionality IF DJT tries to go down that route.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:34 PM on May 19, 2017 [6 favorites]

accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt, right? in which case this would not prevent him from being removed from office.
posted by murphy slaw at 4:37 PM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

There is nothing in the Constitution that explicitly forbids it.

Ah yes. The Air Bud gambit.
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 4:38 PM on May 19, 2017 [36 favorites]

Temperature reading in Saudi Arabia where the press charter just landed, 97 degrees (at 9:00 pm.) Calling for a high tomorrow of 108. Nice toasty welcome for Trump and a small peep at what hell will be like. Can't see him playing any golf tomorrow, can you?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:40 PM on May 19, 2017 [16 favorites]

The American Presidency in 2017: Ah yes. The Air Bud gambit.
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 4:41 PM on May 19, 2017 [23 favorites]

Fucker probably won't hit open air for the entire trip.
posted by Artw at 4:42 PM on May 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

Fucker probably won't hit open air for the entire trip.

Oh, no, he will. Plenty of times. You know what's more nauseating than oppressive heat? Going in and out of it and air conditioned spaces.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 4:44 PM on May 19, 2017 [14 favorites]

The Senate Republicans who are negotiating the healthcare bill sent out a private letter inviting people they care about to submit their comments to HealthReform@finance.senate.gov by May 23rd. It leaked. So they might have to hear from some people beyond their carefully selected list. You know, if you happen to have some civil thoughts on the AHCA and Republican healthcare ideas: HealthReform@finance.senate.gov
posted by zachlipton at 4:44 PM on May 19, 2017 [45 favorites]

Watching the downfall of a generation of Washington Republicans

President Trump, we have noted, has not only disgraced himself but also besmirched the reputations of everyone from Attorney General Jeff Sessions to son-in-law Jared Kushner for their complicity in a dark comedy of deceit and self-created debacles. A debate now rages over whether Vice President Pence is a liar or a dupe. CNN reported on Pence’s claim that he did not know that Michael T. Flynn was under investigation before taking the national security adviser job and that Flynn had multiple contacts with Russian officials (during the campaign and/or transition) [...]

When the party — or what remains of it — looks for leadership, where will it turn?

Not to the likes of Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) or Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.), who opportunistically backed Trump after declaring his unfitness. Not to the likes of Sen. Tom Cotton (R-Ark.), who became Trump’s palace guard, vouching for Cabinet secretaries and refusing to denounce conflicts of interest and possible violations of the Constitution’s emoluments clause. Come to think of it, any Republican who failed in his or her constitutional duty of oversight, continuing to turn a blind eye toward wrongdoing and to rationalize Trump’s conduct, should be disqualified from high office, if not shunned by conservatives. (As for the House members who thought Trump’s chumminess with Russia was humorous, one can only marvel at their gross hypocrisy in get-tough-with-Russia rhetoric.)

The Republicans who've hitched their horses to that guy's poorly built wagon cos they thought they could control it's direct are going to get trampled. It's been obvious to more than half the country that no one--including the man himself--can control him. He may fancy himself a hard man, but he's never really been tested, and once his goose if thoroughly cooked, he will squeal on everyone who has been involved in his shady dealings.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 4:46 PM on May 19, 2017 [29 favorites]

Mark Shields on PBS Newshour just now: You had George Washington who could not tell a lie. Richard Nixon who could not tell the truth. And now you have a President who can't tell the difference.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 4:47 PM on May 19, 2017 [77 favorites]

You know, if you happen to have some civil thoughts on the AHCA and Republican healthcare ideas

"fuck you, you goddamn vampires, i hope you're eaten alive by deer ticks with transmissible cancer" is probably not constructive feedback, huh.
posted by murphy slaw at 4:47 PM on May 19, 2017 [23 favorites]

More constructive than my "You stupid motherfuckers" opening.
posted by corb at 4:51 PM on May 19, 2017 [15 favorites]

Can't wait to hear more about the electoral map.
posted by rhizome at 4:52 PM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

"May you have healthcare equal to that of your poorest constituent" seems like a good sentiment.
posted by Artw at 4:54 PM on May 19, 2017 [48 favorites]

zachlipton, your first link goes to Nordstrom v Ryan.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 4:57 PM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

And the best Friday news of all: the ducklings are using the ramp! [video]
posted by zachlipton at 4:58 PM on May 19, 2017 [61 favorites]

When is Trump expected to land?

Somewhere around 5am EDT which would be 12 noon local time.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:59 PM on May 19, 2017

The duckling scrum is hilarious!
posted by orrnyereg at 5:00 PM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

But they need some traction on their ramp.

LA TImes What's the 'greatest witch hunt of a politician in American history'? We asked the experts

10 historians give their answers and some of them are pretty funny.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:03 PM on May 19, 2017 [13 favorites]

He can feel the walls closing in and, from somewhere under the floorboards, the unceasing heartbeat of his guilt.
posted by Justinian at 5:03 PM on May 19, 2017 [18 favorites]

Paul Ryan: 'I’ve never seen anything like' leaked McCarthy recording

Friday morning, Ryan told conservative radio host Hugh Hewitt that the recording was “a cause of concern” for him and other Republicans.

“I’ve never seen anything like this,” the speaker said. “There was somebody who taped a meeting a year ago where our majority leader cracked a joke and then they released the tape of that joke out just a few days ago and that’s a pretty bizarre thing to happen. So obviously that’s a cause of concern of ours.”r cracked a joke and then they released the tape of that joke out just a few days ago and that’s a pretty bizarre thing to happen. So obviously that’s a cause of concern of ours.”

I'd be quaking in my loafers, if I were Cryin' Ryan. I'd probably knock McCarthy on the back of the head for yuckin' it up about "joking" about Putin paying the Republican leader.

On Thursday, one day after the audio leak, McCarthy found himself sitting next to Trump at a White House meeting on innovation. According to GOP sources, Trump cracked a joke about McCarthy’s Russia quip and the room erupted in laughter. White House meeting on innovation. According to GOP sources, Trump cracked a joke about McCarthy’s Russia quip and the room erupted in laughter.

So yeah, here's toasting to Evan McMullin's continued health and the possibility of more taped conversations implicating the Republican leadership in gross negligence.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 5:04 PM on May 19, 2017 [46 favorites]

New plan: If, by some unlikely turn of events, Trump's dementia allows him to escape legal repercussions on the grounds that he's not mentally competent to stand trial or otherwise not responsible for his actions, we lock up Jared and Ivanka for elder abuse. What sort of monster would allow a helpless old man to take on the most stressful job in the world?
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:08 PM on May 19, 2017 [11 favorites]

Parenthetically, I would like to see Trump diagnosed with dementia simply because I think this country is in deep, deep denial about what dementing disorders do, the level of care required and the fact that even someone who is highly visible, rich, considered by some to be competent, powerful, etc can develop dementia. We were able to shove all this under the rug with Reagan, because his condition was covered up while he was in the White House. One of the things you learn when you have someone in your life with a dementing disorder is how effectively people pretend that it's not happening and that it's not catastrophic, or that it would not happen to a person who was smarter, stronger, etc.

I'm so far behind the thread so I apologize, but I need to quote Frowner's comment and put some stars around it. Having seen very close up in multiple cases what dementia does, plus dealing with it professionally, we as a society have not yet recognized the prevalence of these diseases. It affects a lot of people, a lot of families, and there are many, many people who are not diagnosed until very late in the process or sometimes not at all. I've seen people misdiagnosed with various mental illnesses late in life instead of getting the accurate early-onset Alzheimer's diagnosis they should have, and it doesn't only waste public resources but it causes suffering of the patient and their family when they don't get the treatment and assistance they need.

We as a society are very uncomfortable with the idea of dementia, it's a huge fear for many people, and as a result we do everything we can to look away from it. With a population of Baby Boomers entering their senior years, many working well into their 70s, this is going to be an increasing problem. I say I believe DJT has dementia for many reasons, but one of them is that I think anyone exhibiting those symptoms needs to get checked out, properly diagnosed, and treated. That's the moral, compassionate thing that needs to be done.
posted by threeturtles at 5:09 PM on May 19, 2017 [28 favorites]

Kushner panic. I love it.

Man, I would pay actual hard cash money to hear what's currently being screamed on that airplane.
posted by lydhre at 5:13 PM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

Man, I would pay actual hard cash money to hear what's currently being screamed on that airplane.

"You're the puppet!"

"No you're the puppet!"

"No, you!"

"You!"

"You!"

"You!"

And scene.
posted by vverse23 at 5:18 PM on May 19, 2017 [14 favorites]

I just want to know how many people aboard that plane are pretending to be asleep so they can avoid talking to each other.
posted by contraption at 5:21 PM on May 19, 2017 [46 favorites]

Man, I would pay actual hard cash money to hear what's currently being screamed on that airplane.

Transcripts from at least three staffers will be provided upon landing.
posted by scalefree at 5:26 PM on May 19, 2017 [64 favorites]

Oh, Paul Ryan doesn't like it when his private communications are leaked by parties who wish to harm him? I think the DNC and John Podesta know something about that.
posted by xyzzy at 5:26 PM on May 19, 2017 [70 favorites]

My boss expanded on the potential nightmare scenario of the current state of Air Force One: Trump doesn't sleep much. How many staff members are going to have to stay awake because it looks bad and/or is unacceptable to sleep while boss man is up and ranting and raving? Not even sleep is an escape. Your options are: locking yourself in the bathroom, taking a bunch of valium, or white knuckling it out. Maybe begging for mercy from the press pool on the plane and hiding with them. Though the Pod Save America guys noted on their latest podcast that Air Force One is just one long hallway, and there's no escape.
posted by yasaman at 5:28 PM on May 19, 2017 [29 favorites]

Like Snowpiercer, but less pleasant
posted by prize bull octorok at 5:30 PM on May 19, 2017 [79 favorites]

Anderson Cooper finally goes there with Jeffrey Lord: "If he took a dump on his desk you would defend it." 💩
posted by zachlipton at 5:30 PM on May 19, 2017 [93 favorites]

It's so much less funny when you realize that Cooper's employer is paying Lord for the privilege.
posted by zachlipton at 5:32 PM on May 19, 2017 [10 favorites]

PBS Newshour, via an ITN correspondent, also said the same, played footage of Assange making a balcony address, and left out the detail that he has in no way been exonerated. It's shameful.

Personally, I think it is entirely possible they put this news out about dropping the case to lure Assange out of the embassy.
posted by Anonymous at 5:35 PM on May 19, 2017

Lou Dobbs has a poll on his twitter feed: Do you believe @POTUS admin should bring lawsuits and criminal complaints for subversion against the left and the deep state? And so far 66% say yes.

I'm trying to wrap my head around that lawsuit. The WH administration suing "The Left." Who exactly would they be suing? Democratic leaders? Left-leaning media? The DNC? Also "The Deep State." Good luck serving papers on "The Deep State."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:40 PM on May 19, 2017 [42 favorites]

Japan's NHK World:

Committee approves anti-terror bill

The ruling coalition has won crucial approval for a controversial bill that would criminalize the act of plotting terrorist attacks or other serious crimes.

...

If the bill becomes law, it would allow the punishment of anyone found to be making preparations for a crime such as raising money or purchasing materials.

It would also target anyone linked to those plans.

The committee's approval clears the way for the legislation to go to a vote before the full session of the Lower House.

On the broadcast, they showed crowds of protesters.

Someone more knowledgeable about Japan can probably provide better commentary, but I would think a significant piece of context is what Wikipedia notes here:

One of the main features of the Japanese criminal justice system well known in the rest of the world is its extremely high conviction rate, which exceeds 99%.⁽⁷⁾

posted by XMLicious at 5:41 PM on May 19, 2017

Lou Dobbs means: should the government imprison journalists and dissidents?
posted by theodolite at 5:44 PM on May 19, 2017 [32 favorites]

when i was much younger, i remember watching lou dobbs in passing while flipping channels, delivering business commentary on CNN.

was he always this crazypants or did he have a hard break with reality when obama was elected and he moved to fox business?
posted by murphy slaw at 5:45 PM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

Always like that.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:47 PM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

Lou Dobbs means, should the government should imprison journalists and dissidents.

Yeah I keep forgetting that the first amendment is not the **Good** amendment.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:47 PM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

CNN, preventing me from moving on with my evening: Sources: Russians believed they would be able to use Flynn to influence Trump and his advisors. Reportedly based on intercepted communications with Russian officials.
posted by zachlipton at 5:49 PM on May 19, 2017 [50 favorites]

okay we are well past drip drip drip and splash splash splash

what sound does it make when a dam collapses?
posted by murphy slaw at 5:50 PM on May 19, 2017 [6 favorites]

In a previous potus45 thread, some time in February I think, I mentioned that I briefly peeked at Fox News, just long enough to see Dobbs as a member of some panel say, For [Trump] to be frustrated in any way by his party would be, I believe, criminal.
posted by XMLicious at 5:51 PM on May 19, 2017

what sound does it make when a dam collapses?

"Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?"
posted by zrail at 5:51 PM on May 19, 2017 [23 favorites]

Omnishambles.
posted by chrchr at 5:51 PM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

Within hours of Mueller's appointment on Wednesday, the White House began reviewing the Code of Federal Regulations, which restricts newly hired government lawyers from investigating their prior law firm’s clients for one year after their hiring

They do realize that next in line after Mueller is Preet Bharara, right? The
posted by 1970s Antihero at 5:53 PM on May 19, 2017

Well there's this to look forward to:

Julie Pace, AP reporter on twitter: WH officials worry that if Trump's 1st trip abroad is tough, he might turn future foreign travel over to Pence.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 5:53 PM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

CNN says Flynn told Kislyak that the Trump administration would look favorably on a decision by Russia not to retaliate with its own sanctions after Obama expelled Russian spies. Also said they would revisit sanctions after Trump took office. Russians may have been overstating their influence over Flynn to look good. The Obama White House limited the information they gave Flynn over this.

We previously knew there were transcripts of these calls, presumably intercepted by US intelligence, but the leaks were more limited. We knew some of this before, especially that they discussed sanctions, but the leaks are now a damn collapse.
posted by zachlipton at 5:55 PM on May 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

*slow lizard blink* Every aspect of being president is "tough" for Trump. The man is soft as shite.
posted by supercrayon at 5:56 PM on May 19, 2017 [14 favorites]

Air Force One gets CNN, right?
posted by theodolite at 5:56 PM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

Every aspect of being president is "tough" for Trump.

"I alone can fix it"
…
as long as i am not required to leave my comfort zone in any way to do so.
posted by murphy slaw at 5:58 PM on May 19, 2017 [11 favorites]

CNN is trying SO HARD guys

Cute. But I wonder, if CNN took all that money they spend on bloviating assholes like Jeffery Lord and spent it instead on researchers and journalists would they become a real news channel? Like with real news and information instead of shots of empty podiums and Wolf Blitzer holograms.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:59 PM on May 19, 2017 [18 favorites]

In article form: CNN—Russian officials bragged they could use Flynn to influence Trump, sources say

Russian officials bragged in conversations during the presidential campaign that they had cultivated a strong relationship with former Trump adviser retired Gen. Michael Flynn and believed they could use him to influence Donald Trump and his team, sources told CNN.
...
"This was a five-alarm fire from early on," one former Obama administration official said, "the way the Russians were talking about him." Another former administration official said Flynn was viewed as a potential national security problem.

The conversations picked up by US intelligence officials indicated the Russians regarded Flynn as an ally, sources said. That relationship developed throughout 2016, months before Flynn was caught on an intercepted call in December speaking with Russia's ambassador in Washington, Sergey Kislyak. That call, and Flynn's changing story about it, ultimately led to his firing as Trump's first national security adviser.

Officials cautioned, however, that the Russians might have exaggerated their sway with Trump's team during those conversations.

The new part here is not about Flynn's wiretapped calls; it's that there are also intercepted communications about how Russia viewed Flynn and that they thought they could use him. That's super sensitive intelligence about communications within the Russian government, and someone decided to use it publicly.
posted by zachlipton at 5:59 PM on May 19, 2017 [66 favorites]

zachlipton: "“I’m glad I’m not on the plane so I could be here to answer your Russia questions,” a senior Trump administration official said, sarcastically, before abruptly hanging up."

Hmm. This is interesting because the roster of who's on the plane includes almost every senior adminstration official you could name (and maybe a couple you couldn't):

Melania Trump -- first lady
Reince Priebus -- White House chief of staff
Stephen Miller -- senior policy adviser
Jared Kushner -- senior adviser, foreign policy point man and Trump's son-in-law
Steve Bannon -- chief White House strategist
Ivanka Trump -- adviser to the President and Trump's daughter
H.R. McMaster -- national security adviser
Sean Spicer -- White House press secretary
Sarah Huckabee Sanders -- deputy press secretary
Michael Anton -- National Security Council spokesman
Hope Hicks -- White House director of strategic communications
Gary Cohn -- National Economic Council director
Dina Powell -- deputy national security adviser
Josh Raffel -- communications adviser

The CNN article (where I got the roster from) notes that Mike Pence and Kellyanne Conway are staying behind to mind the shop. I saw someone on Twitter remark that it is quite unusual for a president to take the whole entourage along for a trip like this. Like, if you were scripting a bottle episode for The West Wing, your WH consultant (Dee Dee Myers) would tell you that it wouldn't be realistic for that many of the senior members of the staff to all be on Air Force One for that trip.

Anyways, from the sarcasm and peevishness, I'm going to guess that that particular quote was from Conway, although the discretion to not spill to the Daily Beast might make it Pence. However, the Daily Beast article quotes multiple admin officials and I'm most curious about the "senior administration official who also worked on Trump’s campaign" who gave the "more and more like a complete moron" quote.
posted by mhum at 6:00 PM on May 19, 2017 [13 favorites]

I’m glad I’m not on the plane so I could be here to answer your Russia questions

Sounds too quick witted to be Pence. It's snippy like Conway.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:03 PM on May 19, 2017 [27 favorites]

Well, ostensibly Conway hates Trump and is in it for the money, sooooooo . . .
posted by Anonymous at 6:04 PM on May 19, 2017

Russian officials bragged in conversations during the presidential campaign that they had cultivated a strong relationship with former Trump adviser retired Gen. Michael Flynn and believed they could use him to influence Donald Trump and his team, sources told CNN...."This was a five-alarm fire from early on," one former Obama administration official said, "the way the Russians were talking about him.

SO WHY THE HELL DIDN'T ANYONE TELL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE JFC
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 6:06 PM on May 19, 2017 [52 favorites]

The quote could have been provided before they left on the trip, and/or it's highly likely that the Daily Beast's definition of a "senior" administration official means anyone who doesn't work in the White House Flower Shop (no disrespect to the flower shop; they do a ton). It does sound like Conway though.

Anyway, surely this, right? Russian officials bragging about influencing Trump through Flynn. I don't think the "since the last Trump disaster" has exceeded two hours all day today.
posted by zachlipton at 6:07 PM on May 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

Every aspect of being president is "tough" for Trump. The man is soft as shite.

well, lets give the snowflake a nice spot in a federal SafeSpace®
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 6:10 PM on May 19, 2017 [17 favorites]

> Like, if you were scripting a bottle episode for The West Wing, your WH consultant (Dee Dee Myers) would tell you that it wouldn't be realistic for that many of the senior members of the staff to all be on Air Force One for that trip.

This is pretty much evidence that Trump isn't so much a human, but a satchel of ferrets that has to be corralled, contained, and praised, in order to get what needs to get done at a functional level.

Part of me has sympathy for these poor fools, who now feel like their careers and success of their country (who many actually believe in Trump) is to make that ferret sack be presidential.
posted by mrzarquon at 6:12 PM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

WH officials worry that if Trump's 1st trip abroad is tough, he might turn future foreign travel over to Pence.

Pence has already done a trip or two, hasn't he? I hate to admit it, but he doesn't seem terrible at it, especially compared with Trump. He shows up looking like the lovechild of a Ken doll and the batshit masochist from the DaVinci Code, reads some boring-ass banalites off a prompter while wearing his best earnest-and-concerned face, attends a ~~FULLY CHAPERONED, MOTHER~~ meal with some leaders, and bob's yer uncle.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:13 PM on May 19, 2017 [11 favorites]

It will/would be nice (knock on wood) if, after TV news helped get the country into this predicament, good old print journalism helps save it.
posted by kurumi at 6:14 PM on May 19, 2017 [27 favorites]

SO WHY THE HELL DIDN'T ANYONE TELL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE JFC

My feeling is, we knew. Everyone who was paying attention knew that the Russians had infiltrated the Trump campaign, and especially that they had influence over Flynn, from before the election.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:14 PM on May 19, 2017 [31 favorites]

Don't forget that many of the American people don't care. Russia is our white, ethnonationalist, authoritarian pal now. The Russian assets have Rs after their name which, by the transitive property, means that Russian espionage is now a wholesome, Christian, all-American activity.

We knew. Everyone knew. Many people did not and continue to not give a single shit.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:18 PM on May 19, 2017 [63 favorites]

Yeah there's zero chance Trump voters would have listened to warnings like that from the Obama administration. It would have been (and was) dismissed as partisan stuff.
posted by thefoxgod at 6:18 PM on May 19, 2017 [6 favorites]

> The Republicans who've hitched their horses to that guy's poorly built wagon cos they thought they could control it's direct are going to get trampled. It's been obvious to more than half the country that no one--including the man himself--can control him. He may fancy himself a hard man, but he's never really been tested, and once his goose if thoroughly cooked, he will squeal on everyone who has been involved in his shady dealings.

I know this is beyond premature, but I'm already fantasizing about watching every last one of these mendacious spineless shitweasels perp-walk past signs that say

YOU KNEW.

HE WAS.

A SNAKE.
_TTTCS
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 6:22 PM on May 19, 2017 [15 favorites]

In retrospect, when Lou Dobbs started using the word Islamicist, it should have been a sign that he was a loon.
posted by Yowser at 6:23 PM on May 19, 2017

Lou Dobbs, CNN MONEY, 2002
posted by Yowser at 6:26 PM on May 19, 2017

Hillary 👏Talked 👏 About 👏 Trump 👏 Being 👏 A 👏 Puppet 👏 Of 👏 Putin 👏 On 👏 Live 👏 Tv 👏 Back 👏 In 👏 October 👏.

People didnt care because
- she's a woman so don't take her seriously lol.
- but her emails.
- she's going to win anyways so let's forget our troubles with a big bowl of strawberry ice cream.
- oh yeah, and the complete refusal of the media to do their fucking jobs instead of treating Trump's entire candidacy like some hilarious version of Duck Dynasty: the presidency while doing shit like showing his rallies in their uncut entirety.
posted by supercrayon at 6:27 PM on May 19, 2017 [228 favorites]

Hmm. This is interesting because the roster of who's on the plane includes almost every senior adminstration official you could name (and maybe a couple you couldn't)

About the roster -- Rachel Maddow was riffing on it at the start of her show just now, and she said they're not all on Air Force One. Some are flying over tomorrow or whenever.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:28 PM on May 19, 2017

No puppet! No puppet! You're the puppet!
posted by Justinian at 6:29 PM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

All my favorites are belong to supercrayon.
posted by Dashy at 6:29 PM on May 19, 2017 [14 favorites]

The former CIA director wrote an editorial in August calling Trump any unwitting asset of Russia. The Atlantic ran an piece around the same time with a title like "It's official: Hillary Clinton is running against Vladimir Putin." Josh Marshall had a column called "Trump and Putin: yes, it's really a thing. " The director of national intelligence announced that the DNC Hacks were perpetrated by Russia. Hillary called him "Putin's puppet" to his face on the debate stage.

People couldn't believe any of it. It was just too strange. It was a different world. Things like this didn't happen.
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:30 PM on May 19, 2017 [87 favorites]

Let's not forget the electoral college, good ole' racism, voter suppression, gerrymandering and a simply disastrously clumsy Democratic campaign. This stew has a lot of ingredients.
posted by rc3spencer at 6:37 PM on May 19, 2017 [12 favorites]

Think of how strange this. That this young man never had to run for office, never had to deliver a speech or convince voters that he was the right man for the job. Yet, Jared may be POTUS in every way that counts.

The image you're putting forth here, of an Orthodox Jew who is secretly the power behind the Presidency, makes my skin crawl.
posted by zarq at 6:39 PM on May 19, 2017 [11 favorites]

It wasn't "too strange". They just hated Hillary Clinton more.

Until the day I fucking die I will never stop resenting those assholes, never. The ones who should have known better and chose to shrug and sit it out.
posted by lydhre at 6:39 PM on May 19, 2017 [67 favorites]

Let's wait until morning at least, or it'll fill up with overnight chatter. New threads are difficult to resist.
posted by restless_nomad at 6:44 PM on May 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

The image you're putting forth here, of an Orthodox Jew who is secretly the power behind the Presidency, makes my skin crawl.

And yet here we are. Would it make you feel any better if I said I think Jared Kushner is a really crappy Jew?
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:48 PM on May 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

You guys, the_donald appears to have gone private. Guess they do need their safe space.
posted by uncleozzy at 6:50 PM on May 19, 2017 [46 favorites]

i think positing any one member of the administration as the sole power behind the throne is a gross oversimplification. trump is mercurial and easily distracted. he rankles when he feels like he's being managed and lashes out based on his own gut feelings. a different person has his ear every minute of the day

there's no puppet master. there's just a bunch of people with one string each.
posted by murphy slaw at 6:51 PM on May 19, 2017 [20 favorites]

You guys, the_donald appears to have gone private. Guess they do need their safe space.

At 8:41pm ET on 5/19/2017, Reddit Admins removed three The_Donald mods without warning. This was punishment for our refusal to comply to a special set of rules that were imposed only on this subreddit and prevented our members from fully enjoying reddit or our mods from defending users against harassment.
We are temporarily private in a show of strength against these unfair restrictions. Check back in at 12 am ET for more info.

Nah.. They're just having a Galt tantrum.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:54 PM on May 19, 2017 [39 favorites]

Metafilter: new threads are difficult to resist.
posted by Melismata at 6:54 PM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

The image you're putting forth here, of an Orthodox Jew who is secretly the power behind the Presidency, makes my skin crawl.

Back when it looked like Bernie might have a chance, part of me didn't want him to get the nomination. Obama's presidency brought a lot of simmering racism back to the surface, and I could see Bernie, all his secularism notwithstanding, being a catalyst for a new wave of American antisemitism.

Anyway, I must have accidentally touched a monkey's paw while thinking that, because now we have people like Kushner and Miller. I can't believe there are still people out there saying "this is good for the Jews." And if the wave of antisemitism does come, it won't be Kushner paying the price, it'll be people like me.
posted by Behemoth at 6:54 PM on May 19, 2017 [18 favorites]

In the epic musical about all of this in the future, can the plucky hero be Teen Vogue inspiring every other journalistic outlet to remember how to do their jobs?
posted by Navelgazer at 6:56 PM on May 19, 2017 [25 favorites]

We are temporarily private in a show of strength against these unfair restrictions

Gosh, what a loss for humanity. No, please, it would be such a punishment if you stayed private. It would make everybody so so sad. Oh what a terrible shame.
posted by uncleozzy at 6:57 PM on May 19, 2017 [16 favorites]

Putin, surely, fits the bill?

i guess, but not "criminal mastermind" in the sense that he's sending daily orders to trump and getting a predictable result.

he's more like a mad bomber who sent a drunk chimpanzee with a dynamite vest on into a cocktail party his enemies were throwing. he's not even sure the chimp is going to get it together enough to push the detonator but in the meantime he's enjoying the chaos.
posted by murphy slaw at 6:59 PM on May 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

I think the simplest solution is a world eruv.

Picture a wire circle that encloses a block of houses. Make it larger so that it encloses an entire city. Make it larger and it encloses an entire state. Make it larger and it encloses an entire continent. Make it larger and it encloses half the globe.

Then move it to enclose even more than half the globe...and the loop gets physically smaller. Add more and more territory inside the eruv until you're left with a wire loop that is ten centimeters in diameter which is an eruv that encloses the entire world except for that last couple square centimeters that are still outside the loop.
posted by straight at 7:06 PM on May 19, 2017 [16 favorites]

Rachel Maddow just highlighted this important discrepancy that has not been resolved:

The NYTimes and other media organizations claimed (just after the firing) that Comey asked for more resources in the week before his firing but the Justice Department categorically denies that he did.

It seemed to me that the sourcing on that story came mostly from members of Congress who were told about it by Comey. Perhaps it wasn't a formal request, or perhaps he hadn't actually made it yet when he told the members of Congress?
posted by pjenks at 7:07 PM on May 19, 2017

I still think Sessions and Manafort cooked this scheme up between them and then recruited Trump as someone they could control via kompromat. Little did they know that no one can control Trump.

That's just speculation. I'm staring to believe we might actually learn the real story eventually...

While we're talking about "how did we get here?" I can dig up the links people have already shared about what people tried to do during the campaign to stop Russia...

The FBI's point of view...

The Obama administration's point of view...

The Clinton campaign's point of view
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:08 PM on May 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

Then move it to enclose even more than half the globe...and the loop gets physically smaller. Add more and more territory inside the eruv until you're left with a wire loop that is ten centimeters in diameter which is an eruv that encloses the entire world except for that last couple square centimeters that are still "outside" the loop.

Which is how we locate Wonko the Sane!
posted by Navelgazer at 7:11 PM on May 19, 2017 [18 favorites]

The WaPo reporter on today's "new person of interest in WH" piece was on Maddow and noted that the chief reason they haven't named the person (i.e., Jared) yet is that they're still in the midst of doing lots more reporting on the story.

So tick tick tick, I guess.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:14 PM on May 19, 2017 [11 favorites]

I wonder how the booze and ice supply on the plane are holding out. And oh gods the loos....
posted by vrakatar at 7:16 PM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

United States President Donald Trump is on his way to Saudi Arabia, where he will give a speech advising the leaders of 50 Muslim nations how they should confront the terrorists among them. Then he will dine on well-done steak and ketchup.

Typing those sentences just gave me bedspins, and I am completely sober.
posted by sacre_bleu at 7:18 PM on May 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

Sorry, actually that "FBI's point of view" link from my last comment is all about Her Emails. Which I guess was the problem...
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:18 PM on May 19, 2017

a little surprised there aren't a billion comments on the debate prep video linked above, where Clinton got to practice not-reacting when her Trump stand-in pretended to assault her, so she'd be ready when the real thing lurched at her for real and the cameras were on.

although I really have nothing to say about it myself, so maybe not so surprised. God bless her for finding it funny, sincerely as far as I can tell. but this extraordinarily powerful woman had to PRACTICE HER REACTION TO BE READY WHEN A MAN REACHED OUT HIS ASSAULTY ARMS AT HER IN A PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE. and it was an entirely prudent thing to prepare for. boring old Hillary always does her homework, always prepared, always does the reading, as we know, but I mean. she really, really does.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:24 PM on May 19, 2017 [116 favorites]

And oh gods the loos....

You. Don't. Poop. On. The. Plane. (or bus).
But I guess it is a 12 hour flight.

I feel the pull but I don't know if we have to operate as if SOMEONE must be the brilliant criminal mastermind behind this nightmare, playing some kind of long game of 3D chess. Is there any evidence that Jared, or any of them really, is actually particularly smart?

God Damn, people really do want to believe, don't they? In spite of the complete and utter chaos and stupidity, people really want to believe there's something behind it besides stupidity and chaos.
posted by bongo_x at 7:25 PM on May 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

and it was an entirely prudent thing to prepare for. boring old Hillary always does her homework, always prepared, always does the reading,

It really was an order-vs-chaos election, wasn't it. And now, we've got chaos.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:27 PM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

WSJ has a summary of comey agreeing to testify, which also has some tidbits from the white house that i haven't seen before:

Mr. Trump’s aides have also been pressing for more restraint by the president on Twitter , and some weeks ago they organized what one official called an “intervention.” Aides have been concerned about the president’s use of Twitter to push inflammatory claims, notably his unsubstantiated allegation from March that his Democratic predecessor, Barack Obama, had wiretapped his offices.

In that meeting, aides warned Mr. Trump that certain kinds of comments made on Twitter would “paint him into a corner,” both in terms of political messaging and legally, one official said.

posted by murphy slaw at 7:27 PM on May 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

You guys, the_donald appears to have gone private. Guess they do need their safe space.

Goddamnit, I knew I should have subbed yesterday. I had a feeling this was going to happen.
posted by loquacious at 7:28 PM on May 19, 2017

And now, we've got chaos.

and not even the sexy slaanesh chaos, just a lot of khorne and nurgle
posted by murphy slaw at 7:28 PM on May 19, 2017 [12 favorites]

If I hear one more person ask how we got here I will scream. There were red flags during the primaries. Things were getting obvious by June. On the Right they said it was silly conspiracy theories cooked up by the Clinton campaign and perpetuated by Shills to derail from Benghazi emails. On the Left they said it was silly conspiracy theories cooked up by the Clinton campaign and perpetuated by Shills to derail from DNC emails. On both sides there are still people who hang onto these beliefs.

SO WHY THE HELL DIDN'T ANYONE TELL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE JFC
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 21:06 on May 19 [20 favorites +] [!]

Obama was going to, but Mitch McConnell threatened to turn it into a partisan war and accuse them of manufacturing evidence to derail Trump. And let's be real: given the number of reports that had already been out about this, do you really think anybody would've cared?

This election was lost due to misogyny (and voter suppression), not because nobody was warned about Russia.
posted by Anonymous at 7:28 PM on May 19, 2017

And yet here we are. Would it make you feel any better if I said I think Jared Kushner is a really crappy Jew?

No. I meant exactly what I said. Speculating that Jews are secretly running and manipulating world affairs and are nefariously whispering in the ear of a puppet President is a classic, Protocols-style antisemitic trope. I find it disturbing to see it being raised here with serious intent.
posted by zarq at 7:29 PM on May 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

If I hear one more person ask how we got here I will scream.

Just go ahead and scream. Feels good. Now is the screamerin' hour.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:30 PM on May 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

There doesn't have to be a mastermind. Just a bunch of people who have goals and big plans that mesh together and find each other. Then they go about using and abusing people and each other to further those goals and you end up with a big mess of the group of people's plans that look like there might or should be some master plan but there really isn't ONE specific plan that one person guides.
posted by Jalliah at 7:31 PM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

Hillary 👏Talked 👏 About 👏 Trump 👏 Being 👏 A 👏 Puppet 👏 Of 👏 Putin 👏 On 👏 Live 👏 Tv 👏 Back 👏 In 👏 October 👏.

She put out a video/ad in fucking August warning about his Russia ties.
posted by chris24 at 7:35 PM on May 19, 2017 [50 favorites]

Mr. Trump’s aides have also been pressing for more restraint by the president on Twitter , and some weeks ago they organized what one official called an “intervention.”

Of course they had an Intervention. It's the most reality-TV non-solution-for-drama ever.

What do we call it when "What Would the Desperate Housewives Do?" is their heuristic for action?

Trump's Camera?
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:35 PM on May 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

If the intervention was some weeks ago it didn't work.
posted by Jalliah at 7:38 PM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

Yeah, I don't think we need to look to Jared as any sort of "power behind the throne" here. Hell, even Bannon wasn't the power behind the throne when it came to that. Trump is a petulant cult-of-personality would-be-autocrat with no real ideology beyond that which will gain him power and dismantle any safeguards that restrict or counter his power from becoming absolute. And as completely without conscience as he is about that, he's hilariously undisciplined, and Jared is a lightweight out on his own anyway. I just don't see it. I think Jared has his ear, but more in the way that will unhinge Trump more as this investigation goes forward than in any way that means anything substantive.
posted by Navelgazer at 7:40 PM on May 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

Speculating that Jews are secretly running and manipulating world affairs and are nefariously whispering in the ear of a puppet President is a classic, Protocols-style antisemitic trope.
This isn't what Faint of Butt did. Not even close.
posted by LarsC at 7:42 PM on May 19, 2017 [29 favorites]

I really would like to believe that the secret mastermind and/or white house saboteur setting up the grander idiocies, either because she thinks they are good ideas or because she wants to see her dad broken and crawling before the world the way he deserves, is Ivanka, not Jared. mostly because the reasons for suspecting him over her are as almost as sexist as her dad's decision to give him responsibilities and status he is ultra hilariously unfit for, instead of just regular old shockingly unfit for the way he does for her.

and even more than that, I would like to believe that she is as dumb as her dad and the secret secret mastermind setting HER up from outside to take the fall is Tiffany.

you don't have to explain to me why none of this is true in painstaking detail, I am just saying I want to believe. since we are all having fond FBI feelings this week, and that is the fondest FBI feeling I know.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:42 PM on May 19, 2017 [10 favorites]

That's okay, so does Trump.
posted by Justinian at 7:48 PM on May 19, 2017 [30 favorites]

Vox: Democrats are falling for fake news about Russia - "Why liberal conspiracy theories are flourishing in the age of Trump." Name checks the usual suspects: John Schindler, Louise Mensch, Claude Taylor, Palmer Report.

To understand how Democrats started falling for this stuff so quickly, I turned to three scholars: Dartmouth’s Nyhan, the University of Exeter’s Jason Reifler, and Temple’s Kevin Arceneaux. The three of them all work in a burgeoning subfield of political science, one that focuses on how people form political beliefs — false ones, in particular. All of them were disturbed by what they’re seeing from the [fake liberal news bubble].

“I’m worried? Alarmed? Disheartened is the right word — disheartened by the degree to which the left is willing to accept conspiracy theory claims or very weakly sourced claims about Russia’s influence in the White House,” Reifler says.

The basic thing you need to understand, these scholars say, is that political misinformation in America comes principally from partisanship. People’s political identities are formed around membership in one of two tribes, Democratic or Republican. This filters the way they see the world.

“Misinformation is much more likely to stick when it conforms with people’s preexisting beliefs, especially those connected to social groups that they’re a part of,” says Arceneaux. “In politics, that plays out (usually) through partisanship: Republicans are much more likely to believe false information that confirms their worldview, and Democrats are likely to do the opposite.”

posted by ZeusHumms at 7:49 PM on May 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

odds the trip is cut short- 8%.
odds donnie is the first sitting us prez to seek asylum in a foreign state before he gets back (daily double if you guess where)- approaching .5%

odds are for amusement purposes only.
posted by vrakatar at 7:49 PM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

I forgot about Tiffany!

I haven't. She's about to attend my alma mater. As far as I know, she's qualified on her own merits and has done nothing to hurt me or anyone else I know, and I'm a little worried for her. I don't think GULC is going to be super kind to her, tbh.
posted by Navelgazer at 7:49 PM on May 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

This isn't what Faint of Butt did. Not even close.

Thanks. I mean, I kinda wish Jews controlled all the global finances; then I wouldn't have to deal with my stupid mortgage or student loans.
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:52 PM on May 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

This isn't what Faint of Butt did. Not even close.

zarq was referring to another comment which suggested Kushner was the de facto POTUS. And while I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt that the author did not intend anything sinister, it is certainly evidence of people's inability to detect and be sensitive to antisemitic tropes. I, personally, have given up on calling it out.
posted by Behemoth at 7:55 PM on May 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

This isn't what Faint of Butt did. Not even close.

Well, considering that Faint of Butt didn't make the original comment I have been discussing that seems rather obvious.
posted by zarq at 8:03 PM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

God bless her for finding it funny, sincerely as far as I can tell.

I have several friends who went to her speech in Houston a couple months ago and said she was so amazingly funny. That was the thing several of them said, they didn't realize she had such a great sense of humor and she could laugh (darkly) about the election.
posted by threeturtles at 8:05 PM on May 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

Hmm, I reread the original comment and there was more of a segue from Kushner's religion to his role than I'd remembered, so never mind!
posted by LarsC at 8:05 PM on May 19, 2017

The duckling scrum is hilarious!

It's like the three stooges trying to go through a door
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:07 PM on May 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

The WaPo reporter on today's "new person of interest in WH" piece was on Maddow and noted that the chief reason they haven't named the person (i.e., Jared) yet is that they're still in the midst of doing lots more reporting on the story.

Aaaaaand the reporter, Devlin Barrett, reappeared with Brian Williams just now and said a) the investigators have been interested in the person of interest they're interested in for "quite some time" but now think they need to move forward strongly, and b) the investigation overall is ratcheting up and will soon become more visible since it will start including more subpoenas and witness interviews. So instead of gathering info behind the scenes, I guess the FBI will be out and about.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:10 PM on May 19, 2017 [10 favorites]

Okay, let's talk about this jaunt. Saudi Arabia is a bit of a police state, there will be no protests there. Israel on the other hand I think has people who give a shit, who want peace, and who hate fascists. Hopefully we will see protests there, and in Italy. Keep the pressure on. Where else is he going? Germany?
posted by vrakatar at 8:10 PM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

vrakatar: if I'm in the press pool on Air Force One right now, after what happened outside the Turkish embassy this week, I'm most concerned about disembarking in Saudi Arabia.
posted by Navelgazer at 8:16 PM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

I don't think the commenter had even the slightest bit of antisemitic intent. My pointing out the connotation was not intended to be any sort of accusation. But I felt it necessary to point out.
posted by zarq at 8:18 PM on May 19, 2017 [16 favorites]

This is kind of obvious, but now being stated forthrightly: Comey believes Trump was trying to influence him.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 8:20 PM on May 19, 2017 [10 favorites]

Here's a Guardian article including travel itinerary.
posted by misterpatrick at 8:24 PM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

Speculating about Kushner or anyone else's role in the administration seems ok to me, independent of their religion. Speculating about sinister ulterior motives for him obtaining a dispensation to work on Shabbat seems to me to be out of bounds.

I'm not Jewish, but there was a huge Metatalk alerting the community to anti-Semitic background radiation and some of the comments above did stick out to me.
posted by Rumple at 8:31 PM on May 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

Think of how strange this. That this young man never had to run for office, never had to deliver a speech or convince voters that he was the right man for the job. Yet, Jared may be POTUS in every way that counts.

I'm really bothered by the extent to which people are willing to stretch credulity to somehow make Trump not an active figure in his own life. This happens a lot with white men, more with wealthy white men, and it always gives me the creeps.

Socially, politically, economically, and in all other ways Trump has been able to essentially do whatever he wanted and hurt whoever he wanted to for the majority of his life. Frequently, he has been awarded for it both by people who weren't hurt by it, because they enjoyed it, and by people who were hurt by it, because they had significantly less power and influence.

Why is it so hard to believe that he is making choices, they just happen to be shitty ones that hurt a lot of people and he doesn't care?
posted by Deoridhe at 8:32 PM on May 19, 2017 [48 favorites]

Lou Dobbs has a poll on his twitter feed: Do you believe @POTUS admin should bring lawsuits and criminal complaints for subversion against the left and the deep state? And so far 66% say yes.

I'm trying to wrap my head around that lawsuit. The WH administration suing "The Left." Who exactly would they be suing?

You are overthinking it, it will just be a large lawsuit (the largest ever), listing as the defendants: The Left and Deep State.

Boom! Solved! The left and deep state will get wobbly knees and both cower in the corner, or perhaps in two corners, that's just details.
posted by rainy at 8:36 PM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

I can dig that, deoridhe. This shit is so bonkers any number of things could be true. This is unexplored territory.
posted by vrakatar at 8:36 PM on May 19, 2017

Why is it so hard to believe that he is making choices, they just happen to be shitty ones that hurt a lot of people and he doesn't care?

Maybe because his choices change depending upon the last person he spoke to? He's a piece of shit, to be sure, but there are serious questions about his capacity.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:36 PM on May 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

This is kind of obvious, but now being stated forthrightly: Comey believes Trump was trying to influence him.

The headline is obvious as hell. The subtext, in which we read the second paragraph and assume Comey is not a stupid person, is much more interesting: "Comey's trying to establish intent."

This increasingly looks like Comey, from the outside, making a case against Trump for obstruction of justice for firing him, and to do that, laying the groundwork for what Trump was thinking is crucial. Hence all the leaks about how Trump tried to buddy up to Comey, how Comey tried to teach him to follow proper procedures for communication between the White House and the FBI, and how Trump kept violating those procedures to inquire about the ongoing investigation. These are all boxes you have to tick off to get to criminal obstruction.
posted by zachlipton at 8:37 PM on May 19, 2017 [58 favorites]

Why is it so hard to believe that he is making choices, they just happen to be shitty ones that hurt a lot of people and he doesn't care?

I don't read it as he isn't making his own choices but more about what we know specifically about Trump and how he makes hes choices, namely that he is very easy to influence and manipulate with regards to his choices. With Trump not looking at who has his ear at a particular time means only understanding a part of what is going on.
posted by Jalliah at 8:39 PM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

Remember how Romney's foreign trip was a cluster of shitstorms? Ponder this for a second. The boring, cautious Romney. Just a nominee. A real shitstorm of a trip. I can't even imagine what the next 9 days are going to be. I honestly think he will cut it short.
posted by rainy at 8:42 PM on May 19, 2017 [18 favorites]

Huh. So now I'm being accused of being anti-Semitic because I said that Jared and Ivanka might be getting rabbinical waivers because they are Donald's caretakers and then I said that I thought that Jared was POTUS in all but name?

Too bad he's not Catholic then; I'd be in the clear.

First of all, I never said he was a mastermind. Dear lord there is obviously no mastermind among this crew-- the administration is a fiasco. However I do see Jared being given a lot to do and while he hasn't quite pulled off Peace in the Middle East yet he did arrange this trip as well as the arms deal to the Saudis.

Hey remember when they offered The VP spot to--was it Kusich?-- and promised he would be in charge of Domestic and Foreign policy while Donald would be in charge of making America Great Again? Yeah I think it's like that only instead of Pence, Kushner is doing a lot of the work. And I think he And Ivanka are a team. While she is holding daddy's hand and babysitting him, Jared is doing whatever he thinks will make this administration look good. They probably started out trying to protect the brand, but now they're just trying to keep this administration from imploding.

If it makes me anti-Semitic to say that, so be it.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:43 PM on May 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

I don't read it as he isn't making his own choices but more about what we know specifically about Trump and how he makes hes choices, namely that he is very easy to influence and manipulate with regards to his choices.

exactly. which is why it is so silly, to be charitable, to talk as though a feckless young dingus like Kushner has secret whispery manipulation skills that are scary in any specific way other than as the whole situation is scary. Anybody can manipulate Trump. I could do it. Steve Bannon did it. Hillary Clinton did it elegantly to a debate audience of millions. Jim Comey's doing it now. Everybody in the entire world can do it except for Tiffany Trump, and maybe she just doesn't care to. Being the last person in the room to express your opinion is not a special skill that only Kushner has, and if it were, Trump's policies would be a lot more consistent and coherent than they are, if just as stupid.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:43 PM on May 19, 2017 [10 favorites]

Maybe because his choices change depending upon the last person he spoke to? He's a piece of shit, to be sure, but there are serious questions about his capacity.

Yes, he is in fact a stupid, rich white man. Sometimes, very rarely, rich white men appear (as if from the head of a god) who are stupid. They are often stupid repeatedly, in public, but they don't get the same consequences as people who aren't rich and/or white and/or male. And then people have to justify looking up to them because they're rich and white and male, and so they try to pretend they aren't stupid. And pretty soon we're all sitting around in a circle coming up with reasons why they sound stupid which are anything but THEY ARE A STUPID because they have money, and influence, and people suck up to them, and they get access to interchangeable women without names so they can't be stupid because the world is rewarding them.

But no, they aren't the lost hero here to reclaim Camelot. They are stupid. They're just playing on easy mode and started with three home runs. He sounds stupid because he is stupid. He makes stupid choices because he is stupid. He's easily influenced by any asshole passing by because he is stupid.

He sounds no more stupid than Sarah Palin, and gods know no one ever tried to make the case that she had Alzheimers, or was secretly manipulated by a cabal which just so happened to be Jewish. He strings together soundbites in order to appeal to the exact same people she did, a word salad which is entirely predictable and sounds ridiculous but which has an emotional effect. He repeats himself because people like that. He uses simple words because it works. And he thinks he's the smartest, best guy in the room because even PEOPLE WHO HATE HIM cut him a break.

I am so sick of people cutting him a break and focusing on how other people should be held accountable if [insert your diagnosis of choice here].
posted by Deoridhe at 8:51 PM on May 19, 2017 [34 favorites]

exactly. which is why it is so silly, to be charitable, to talk as though a feckless young dingus like Kushner has secret whispery manipulation skills that are scary in any specific way other than as the whole situation is scary. Anybody can manipulate Trump. I could do it. Steve Bannon did it. Hillary Clinton did it elegantly to a debate audience of millions. Jim Comey's doing it now. Everybody in the entire world can do it except for Tiffany Trump, and maybe she just doesn't care to. Being the last person in the room to express your opinion is not a special skill that only Kushner has, and if it were, Trump's policies would be a lot more consistent and coherent than they are, if just as stupid.

In this case it's not that he has any more ability then others because the actual influencing it's easy. It's the ability to be the person (and keep being the person) that Trump listens to most. Of course Kushner has a built in advantage in the internal power struggles among Trump's people since he's a relative and has a partner who grew up with the guy and knows him better then most.

I agree. He isn't some scary smart dude. He's the husband of the most trusted daughter. It's default. It's his position to lose really.

Guess we'll see just how 'loyal' Trump is to his own relatives.
posted by Jalliah at 8:54 PM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

Lieberman once made fun of Trump in a "funniest celebrity in Washington" contest, so I'm guessing someone else is going to be the new front-runner for the FBI job.
posted by dirigibleman at 8:57 PM on May 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

Wow. Nobody is talking about a cabal of Jews. Also no one, but no one is cutting him any slack. We constantly talk about his idiocy and his weak mindedness-- where are you getting the idea that people are going easy on DJT?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:57 PM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

Who is cutting him break? It's just looking at how his power and influence works. In his case other people are involved. Ignoring them and only focusing on him is ignoring the problem. The problem isn't just Trump. It's everyone else involved with the guy. That's how power like this works. No person good or bad gets to a position like this without other people and other people's influence.
posted by Jalliah at 8:58 PM on May 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

He rotates through them pretty regularly, doesn't he? The only one who's never been the prize councilor is Reince Priebus and that's because he's Reince Priebus. if you believe the constant leak drama stories, which I do, he listens to Kushner for a while and then gets mad at him and listens to Bannon for a while, and then gets mad because he misses Mike Flynn so much, and then listens to Sergei Lavrov for a while, and eventually circles back to Kushner because he forgot about Kellyanne Conway a few months back so she doesn't get any more turns. nobody says Kushner's always been in control, only that he was optimistic about the possibility of it for a while and is a pathetic incompetent.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:59 PM on May 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

TIL I learned what a "bottle episode" is and that 45 can't poop at home! What a day!
posted by rabbitrabbit at 9:04 PM on May 19, 2017 [15 favorites]

Who is cutting him break?

The people coming up with reasons to blame the people around him. The people diagnosis him with Alzheimers and mental illnesses. The people saying the people "taking advantage of him" could be reported for elder abuse. The people calling ANYONE BUT HIM the POTUS. It's been happening for weeks, people making apologies for how he might not know, or someone else is manipulating him into things, or someone just knows he must have [insert your diagnosis here] when diagnosing at a distance is unethical.

I'm done now.
posted by Deoridhe at 9:05 PM on May 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

We're not making excuses for him. It's just that he's clearly incompetent and it's really hard to believe he was able to get this far with some kind of Svengiali.

Just wanna revisit this story for a minute...

The author of many of Trump’s executive orders is senior policy adviser Stephen Miller, a Sessions confidant who was mentored by him and who spent the weekend overseeing the government’s implementation of the refugee ban. The tactician turning Trump’s agenda into law is deputy chief of staff Rick Dearborn, Sessions’s longtime chief of staff in the Senate. The mastermind behind Trump’s incendiary brand of populism is chief strategist Stephen K. Bannon, who, as chairman of the Breitbart website, promoted Sessions for years.
[...]
Then there is Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law and senior adviser, who considers Sessions a savant and forged a bond with the senator while orchestrating Trump’s trip last summer to Mexico City and during the darkest days of the campaign.
[...]
“In America and Europe, working people are reasserting their right to control their own destinies,” Bannon wrote. “Jeff Sessions has been at the forefront of this movement for years, developing populist nation-state policies that are supported by the vast and overwhelming majority of Americans."
...
Sessions helped devise the president’s first-week strategy, in which Trump signed a blizzard of executive orders that begin to fulfill his signature campaign promises — although Sessions had advocated going even faster.
...
Sessions was especially instrumental in the early days of the transition, which was taken over by Dearborn after a purge of New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie’s associates. Sessions became a daily presence at Trump Tower in New York, mapping out the policy agenda and making personnel decisions.

Once former New York mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani was out of consideration for secretary of state, Trump considered nominating Sessions because he was so trusted by the inner circle, including Kushner, although Sessions’s preference was to be attorney general, according to people familiar with the talks.
...
Sessions has installed close allies throughout the administration.
...
As he weighed a presidential run, Trump liked what he saw in Sessions, who was tight with the constituencies Trump was eager to rouse on the right. So he cultivated a relationship, giving Sessions $2,000 for his 2014 reelection even though the senator had no Democratic opponent.

“Sessions was always somebody that we had targeted,” said Sam Nunberg, Trump’s political adviser at the time.

In May 2015, Nunberg said, he reached out to Miller, then an adviser to Sessions, to arrange a phone call between Trump and the senator. The two hit it off, with Trump telling Nunberg, “That guy is tough.”

The next month, Trump declared his candidacy.

WHY did sessions want to be AG? To be guy the FBI reports to?

Sessions was at that meeting at the Mayflower hotel with Kislyak and didn't even mention that in his amended Senate testimony after he perjured himself and then fessed up.

Manafort and Sessions have known each other since the ’70s.

Sessions reportedly told him to figure Comey, Ann's signed off on the firing in spite of his "recusal."
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:09 PM on May 19, 2017 [58 favorites]

The people coming up with reasons to blame the people around him.

I 100 percent agree, just by the way. He is not a pathetic victim of those around him; he chooses to delegate hard things, like thinking, to other people: and he's responsible for that, for choosing the people to delegate to, for choosing whose advice to take, for taking that advice, and for however many people have to die as a consequence.

he also compulsively blames other people, which I think is why he does random shit he heard other people say -- not just because he is stupid, but so that he can say, later, that so-and-so is really at fault, not poor him who was just too trusting. I think he does do that, but I consider that criticism of him, not excuse-making.

the senility fantasies are marginally less offensive than the DSM diagnosis fantasies but I have to laugh at the popular idea that Ivanka would be an evil witch (that is, evil as a negligent daughter per se, not evil in enabling his continued office-holding) for not getting him medical help if they turned out to be true. the best redemptive act that woman could ever perform in her miserable life would be letting him suffer. so I doubt she is doing that, or ever will.
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:13 PM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

And Trump's campaign positions were in many cases flip flops from positions Trtump had earlier taken publiy... But thru mayched up perfect with the agenda Jeff Sessions has always had.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:14 PM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

There's a difference between reasons and excuses. Discussing reasons does not mean making excuses or excusing.
posted by Jalliah at 9:24 PM on May 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

Oh and that meeting at the Mayflower was in April. That was right when the hacking of the DNC started, though it wouldn't be discovered until June. And it was right before spies picked up chatter from Russians about hitting Clinton, which they didn't understand at the time.

That's the context for that April meeting Sessions and Kislyak both attended (along with Trump). And Manafort was Trump's campaign manager at the time.

Jeff Sessions is in every scene of this movie, trying to stay in the background.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:25 PM on May 19, 2017 [53 favorites]

I've been shuddering while imagining if Sessions hadn't been pressured to recuse himself from Trump=Russia issues and was the one in charge of things at the DOJ rather than Rosenstein who is reporting to Congress that a senior White House official is a person of interest.

My friends here in NH who had qualms, but were persuaded to vote and vote a straight Dem ticket, must be getting tired of me telling them again and again that their vote definitely mattered, our former governor Maggie Hassan having won our senatorial seat from Republican Kelly Ayotte by only around 1000 votes. Despite being a freshman Hassan was one of the Dems grilling Sessions during the vote-a-rama.

I'm just watching the re-broadcast of Anderson Cooper 360 and was disappointed to see that they cut out "If he took a dump on his desk you would defend it." Though they left in a subsequent bit where he says "I was talking about dumping documents on the desk!"
posted by XMLicious at 9:40 PM on May 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

i'm starting to wonder if comey's last minute email freakout was him trying to establish his bona fides with the republicans if he did end up having to take trump down later, and he just badly misjudged how significant the impact would be on the race

I don't think it was anything so noble. I don't really think Comey was motivated by trying to get Trump elected, because I think he assumed, like almost everyone else, that that was impossible. But he was playing his own political games, in order to further his own agenda. He was trying to shore up his position at the FBI against the consequences of what he thought was the most likely outcome, a Clinton presidency with a Republican House and possibly Senate.

Comey made a massive mistake, but it was an unforced error. He should have done his job and defended himself on his record if the time came for that. Instead he tried to be clever and ended up fucking himself, and the country. I also suspect that his own political leanings made him underestimate just how damaging a Trump presidency would be, encouraging him to run that risk. He's a clever man, but he made a stupid and selfish decision. He didn't care about protecting the US from the Republican death machine, he cared about protecting himself.
posted by howfar at 9:58 PM on May 19, 2017 [47 favorites]

He was trying to shore up his position at the FBI against the consequences of what he thought was the most likely outcome, a Clinton presidency with a Republican House and possibly Senate.

your scenario sounds plausible, for sure, but what consequences did he anticipate?

that the FBI would get dragged into a constant anti-clinton witch hunt started by republican congress?

i don't think that clinton was likely to dismiss him before his term expired - given the earlier email investigations it would look like retribution, and she's smart enough to see that, unlike trump. am i missing some other scenarios?
posted by murphy slaw at 10:12 PM on May 19, 2017

What about the story that he expected the reopening of investigation to be leaked? If that happened it would have looked pretty bad, it would be spun by half the media and all republicans as him leaving everyone with impression that the whole thing is closed when it was actually open? This would be very tempting for any conservative-leaning FBI agent to leak, isn't that right?
posted by rainy at 10:20 PM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

watch the argument between Maher and Boris Ephsteyn on tonight's Real Time

that doesn't sound like a good idea! i'm not going to do that!
posted by murphy slaw at 10:26 PM on May 19, 2017 [62 favorites]

The Saudis know their man. This is way better than two scoops of ice cream. We've arrived at the palatial Ritz hotel in Riyadh where Trump will be staying. Very Vegas. But with some extra exterior lighting. [Twitter]
posted by scalefree at 10:28 PM on May 19, 2017 [10 favorites]

It does look very Vegas though. I find that amusing, not sure who's emulating who.
posted by scalefree at 10:32 PM on May 19, 2017

Yeah the giant Trump head may be startling. Maybe I should've added a warning. Sorry about that.
posted by scalefree at 10:34 PM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

your scenario sounds plausible, for sure, but what consequences did he anticipate?

The right had been pissed at him ever since he refused to "lock her up" in the summer. He figured she was going to win and wanted to give the impression he was neutral. The NYT had a pretty good breakdown of the whole saga from start to finish.
posted by Anonymous at 10:34 PM on May 19, 2017

So now I'm being accused of being anti-Semitic

Nope. I quite clearly said that my comments are not intended as an accusation. I am happy to give your intent the benefit of the doubt. But you are raising an antisemitic trope. My pointing this out is not a personal attack against you.

because I said that Jared and Ivanka might be getting rabbinical waivers because they are Donald's caretakers and then I said that I thought that Jared was POTUS in all but name?

Not precisely what you said.

Here's what you said. I was addressing the parts I've bolded.

"And that brings us to the interesting topic of Jared's relationship with his father-in-law. If you recall he got a waiver to travel on Shabbat to be with Trump just after pussygate came out. It is my belief that Jared and Ivanka are caretakers and they have convinced their rabbi that Trump needs them by his side during times of stress.

But besides acting as his caretaker, I have to wonder what Jared Kushner's exact feelings and relationship are and I do think we will be discovering them as we go forward with the investigation. How much of what Trump does and thinks has been Jared (with Ivanka's assistance) whispering in his ear? In other words, how much control does Jared have over Trump? It may be more than Trump realizes if Jared knows how to manipulate him.

Think of how strange this. That this young man never had to run for office, never had to deliver a speech or convince voters that he was the right man for the job. Yet, Jared may be POTUS in every way that counts. I think Bannon lost the struggle for control and Jared won and Trump is the dummy in the middle."

The nefarious Jew who whispers in the ear of those in power and manipulates world affairs is absolutely an antisemitic trope. That isn't debatable. It's simply a fact. You bring up Kushner's religion. You speculate that he is manipulating the President of the United States and also that Kushner is POTUS in "every way that counts." In other words, a shadow President.

I do not think you're an antisemite. But yes, that is an antisemitic stereotype.

Too bad he's not Catholic then; I'd be in the clear.

You're literally speculating that a couple of Jews are conspiring and manipulating/controlling the leader of the United States. You talked about their religion to kick that comment off. I can't speak for how every Jew might feel about that, but do you understand why someone who is Jewish like myself could conceivably find such a statement problematic?

However I do see Jared being given a lot to do

You asked: "How much of what Trump does and thinks has been Jared (with Ivanka's assistance) whispering in his ear? In other words, how much control does Jared have over Trump? It may be more than Trump realizes if Jared knows how to manipulate him"

Different things.
posted by zarq at 10:49 PM on May 19, 2017 [27 favorites]

> She put out a video/ad in fucking August warning about his Russia ties.

And you know what? She was savaged for focusing too much on Russia -- in these threads and elsewhere -- by ostensible leftists. Because by that point, nobody was disputing that she was the better candidate -- but she had the audacity to use her opponent's weaknesses against him. So it was all "Red-baiting this" and "McCarthy-ism that". Why wasn't she talking about improving the lives of "regular Americans"?

But she was, of course -- she was noticing the fact that "regular Americans" would prefer not to live under a President who was beholden to Russian interests -- business or otherwise. And now we have a picture developing of perhaps the one man Hillary voters hate more than Trump -- the man who is more than any other single person most responsible for Trump being President today -- revealing himself to finally be catching up to what the Hillary campaign was aware of "before it was cool."

So no, ostensible leftists -- this wasn't about you, or Taibbi, or Greenwald, or anyone else on the nominal left -- it was about the easily-corruptable simpleton who won the nomination of one of our two major political parties, and was able to eke out an Electoral College win. It was about the sovereignty of the United States being for sale to the highest bidder, or even to an entity who isn't bidding at all, but is merely able to pull a fast one on a disinterested clown prince. Yeah, it actually matters when your opponent is taking calls from a foreign power. You assholes were talking about "Putin Derangement Syndrome" when there was a deranged Putin stooge fighting to take control of the levers of power. And he won.

Good job, bros. Well done.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:49 PM on May 19, 2017 [75 favorites]

your scenario sounds plausible, for sure, but what consequences did he anticipate?

that the FBI would get dragged into a constant anti-clinton witch hunt started by republican congress?

At the time, there was a ton of speculation that Chaffetz and/or the New York FBI office would leak the information in a big way. To a lot of people, it looked like Comey had little to no control over the NY office, who had clearly been giving Giuliani buckets of inside info all along.

It looked to me like he was trying to maintain control through exercising at least the illusion of control, i.e. making the decision to notify Congress himself rather than having it forced on him. I don't for a second think that exonerates him, as I think it's a sad reason to do what he did. And I also think, as pointed out above, his own political leanings affected his judgment on what risks were lesser and which ones were greater. But those were the sorts of consequences I think were on his mind at the time.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:50 PM on May 19, 2017 [12 favorites]

Between Trump and his national security adviser lie 'ferocious' internal politics

oh man, there are a couple more quotes from this article that are pure headdesk material

"It can be difficult to advise the President effectively given his seemingly short attention span and propensity to be easily distracted," a source knowledgeable about McMaster's day-to-day challenges told CNN.
The source added that McMaster's task -- being an honest broker of various national security options for the President -- is further complicated by fears on the National Security Council that Trump can be reckless with sensitive information.
"You can't say what not to say," the source said of Trump, "because that will then be one of the first things he'll say."
…
Other knowledgeable sources describe an NSC staffed up by less-than-A-team individuals with allegiance to former national security adviser and retired Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn, who was fired in February, and an intelligence community populated by admirers of President Barack Obama's Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, compounding trust issues.

posted by murphy slaw at 11:03 PM on May 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

WHY did sessions want to be AG? To be guy the FBI reports to?

I said a long time ago that it was weird that everyone in the line of succession and in charge of impeachment seemed to be someone that could possibly be in with the Russians, but it seemed a lot more like a crazy conspiracy theory a few months ago. There's no way Trump could put that together, he's not smart enough, and it seems like whole thing would be more to keep R* power after he was gone than to save him. I've thought since last year that the R's had a plan to ditch Trump after he won if he ended up being too much trouble.

The list of things that seem too crazy to be true keeps getting shorter.

*R stands for Republican or Russian from now on, all the same.
posted by bongo_x at 11:04 PM on May 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

Oh good finally hit bottom of thread gonna pass out now
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:20 PM on May 19, 2017 [21 favorites]

Willie Nelson to Jeff Sessions: smoke some weed and chill out
posted by angrycat at 11:20 PM on May 19, 2017 [14 favorites]

There's no way Trump could put that together, he's not smart enough

His may have merely been the last few pieces of the puzzle.
posted by rhizome at 11:48 PM on May 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

As an annex to what zarq says a few comments back, here's the MeTa about anti-Semitism which Rumple mentioned.

We as a community have to really be above-board in pointing out things that fit anti-Semitic tropes, independent of any anti-Semitic intent on the part of the commenter. There's lots of great information and commentary in that thread to depict why combinations of details so subtle one person might not notice them might make another person's skin crawl.
posted by XMLicious at 11:57 PM on May 19, 2017 [23 favorites]

Well this looks like something. From Media Matters: Did "alt-right" hoaxster and troll Jack Posobiec plant fake protest signs at a net neutrality protest? The answer will surprise you! Actually it won't.
posted by scalefree at 12:12 AM on May 20, 2017

ELECTIONS NEWS

** SC-05 special

-- The recount of the GOP runoff ended up with no change, Norman is officially the GOP candidate. General election is June 20.

** MT-AL special

-- Final batch of Quist ads focus on ACHA, mention his own pre-existing conditions.
-- We note with interest that the ACHA CBO score will come out the day before the election.

** UT-03 special

-- The governor has set dates for the special to fill Chaffetz's seat. Filing deadline May 26, primaries Aug 15, general Nov 7. This all assumes the legislature does not go through with their threat of suing the governor.

posted by Chrysostom at 12:24 AM on May 20, 2017 [26 favorites]

METAFILTER: your scenario sounds plausible, for sure, but
posted by philip-random at 12:31 AM on May 20, 2017 [9 favorites]

And... AF1 has landed. It's started.
posted by mikelieman at 12:52 AM on May 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

Citizen Trump Goes to Saudi Arabia. I don't think he's even out of the airport there.
posted by scalefree at 1:01 AM on May 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

And... AF1 has landed. It's started.

seriously ... will he ever again step foot on American soil?
posted by philip-random at 1:05 AM on May 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

NYT: President Trump Lands in Saudi Arabia: Mrs. Trump stood near her husband with her hair uncovered, in the tradition of previous American first ladies. The country’s tradition is for women to cover their heads in public. (In 2015, Mr. Trump had criticized Michelle Obama on Twitter for eschewing a head scarf during an official visit here. Hillary Clinton and Chancellor Angela Merkel also did not cover their hair during trips to the country.)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:14 AM on May 20, 2017 [16 favorites]

I read somewhere that reporters are on a separate plane, Air Force 0. Does anyone know for sure if any press is on AF1?
posted by msalt at 1:25 AM on May 20, 2017

Apropos of absolutely nothing besides hearing the name Joe Leiberman more often all of a sudden, a story about living in the current world.

I've been within 5 feet of a congressperson exactly two times, the first being on a puddle-jumper right behind Bill Janklow shortly after his release from prison on a flight from Sioux Falls to Aberdeen during incredibly bad turbulence and wondering if we were going to be part of God's own collateral damage, and the second time was in DC, walking next to the capitol building, when a congressional vehicle rushed out of a gate and one of my friends had to grab me to pull me back out of the driveway thing. That vehicle, which had tinted windows and I can never know for sure, was either driven by or for Joe Lieberman, which sticks in my mind because we were there, in part, to protest for science-based policy and the ACA was a big part of it, being 2011.

There's no segue into ever telling this story, but I can't see or hear his name without thinking "Oh yeah, that dude that almost ran me over". If Joe Lieberman ends up the next FBI director, I'm sorry, because it must solely be to fulfill some narrative in my life of brief contact with congresspeople who almost kill me in vehicles having power no sane person would ever give them. I'm ruling nothing out.
posted by neonrev at 1:25 AM on May 20, 2017 [7 favorites]

Here's a photo of them getting off the plane. She's wearing a flowing, robe-like black dress with full sleeves. For her it's quite modest.
posted by scalefree at 1:28 AM on May 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

I really wish I had something clever and stress relieving to say, but I am overloaded right now. Too damn much.
posted by Samizdata at 1:34 AM on May 20, 2017

Can we not make this about Melania's outfit choices for just a minute?
posted by Bacon Bit at 1:37 AM on May 20, 2017 [15 favorites]

The people calling ANYONE BUT HIM the POTUS. It's been happening for weeks, people making apologies for how he might not know, or someone else is manipulating him into things, or someone just knows he must have [insert your diagnosis here] when diagnosing at a distance is unethical.

Trump can be stupid, petty, arrogant, vicious, and suffering from dementia, and those character traits can exist independent of it. Indeed, his entire life indicates he's been driven by nothing else. The people around him can be manipulative bastards taking advantage of a sick old man, and that sick old man can still be a manipulative bastard himself. He can suffer from NPD or whatever other mental illness you want to stick on him, and still be culpable for being an utter shit. This is not a black-and-white situation, and if that was not made clear in my long comment about dementia then let me make that clear now. The reason I bring up dementia and those sorts of diagnoses is because they only heighten the danger he puts us all in. Trump 20 years ago would be a misogynist, racist, awful, corrupt, terror of a POTUS. He'd still be dragging us through the mud and would still be embarrassing us in front of heads of state and still be making up lies about the size of his inauguration crowds. But I'd be less worried he'd try to nuke a random country because sundowning was exacerbating his reaction to perceived slights against his sensitive piss-baby ego. That doesn't excuse him. If anything, it's more damning.
posted by Anonymous at 1:38 AM on May 20, 2017

From the same article: Aides said Mr. Trump had spent most of the flight from Washington, which took 12 hours and 20 minutes, meeting with staff, reading newspapers and working on his speech. He got very little sleep, they said.

The good news it that we could make fake newspapers and TV shows with a normal president's briefing material in them, but the bad news is that he's not capable of retaining the information.
posted by sebastienbailard at 2:16 AM on May 20, 2017

Can we not make this about Melania's outfit choices for just a minute?

Normally I strongly agree, but I have an important and pressing question.

Did they land AF1 on her belt? You could smuggle a couple of large pizzas into a movie theater with that thing.
posted by loquacious at 2:19 AM on May 20, 2017 [13 favorites]

I too have an aversion to superfluous belts, but their effect on foreign policy hasn't yet been determined.
posted by Bacon Bit at 2:25 AM on May 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

Would anybody be surprised if Trump showed up to work one day wearing one of those professional wrestling championship belts
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:42 AM on May 20, 2017 [18 favorites]

She looks like a character from Dune.
posted by sour cream at 2:42 AM on May 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

Personally I'm with the people asking what's wrong with Trump's ties. One of the advantages of standards of male formal dress is that they're rigidly codified and, in a business context, essentially universal. All you have to do to look respectable is follow certain prescribed formulae and spend an appropriate amount of time and/or money on suitable tailoring. How can someone spend a lifetime in business settings and be so oblivious to the advantage attached to following these simple rules (and so unwilling to take advice) that they undertake even ritual diplomacy with a massive knob-arrow dangling from their neck?

Trump's outfit choices would tell us a lot about what kind of person he is, if the fact that he's an oblivious goon weren't apparent from everything else he does too.
posted by howfar at 2:52 AM on May 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

Melania looks beautiful and quite fashionable, which is not a shocker as she is a beautiful and fashionable woman. And what the fuck that has to do with anything I don't know.

Also she's wearing pants, not a dress.
posted by supercrayon at 2:52 AM on May 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

> Can we not make this about Melania's outfit choices for just a minute?

Normally I strongly agree, but I have an important and pressing question.

Gah. 6 hours without a new scandal or bombshell and you folk get pretty squirrely.

Just keep blearily refreshing
https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/rising/ and twitter like the rest of us.
posted by sebastienbailard at 3:02 AM on May 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

All you have to do to look respectable is follow certain prescribed formulae and spend an appropriate amount of time and/or money on suitable tailoring.

True, but then again, there are those who don't care about these conventions, because they honestly don't give a fuck. I find that even in a business setting, the sloppiest dresser in the room is often the most successful and accomplished. (Not sure if Trump falls in that category, though.)
posted by sour cream at 3:03 AM on May 20, 2017

He chose to go to Riyadh... he chose to go to Riyadh and visit the other places, not because it was easy, but because it was hard.
posted by Devonian at 3:35 AM on May 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

When Trump et al are found to be traitors, we get to freeze (or better yet sieze) their assets, right? Like drug forfeiture laws work for non-rich people?
posted by maxwelton at 3:40 AM on May 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

It's probably something about her smile and the way her hands are positioned in the photo of Melania disembarking the plane that makes me think of this.
posted by walrus at 3:43 AM on May 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

R Smith hosts S Kendzior for a pithy interview on the latest events.
posted by progosk at 3:48 AM on May 20, 2017

Personally I'm with the people asking what's wrong with Trump's ties. One of the advantages of standards of male formal dress is that they're rigidly codified and, in a business context, essentially universal.

I just had a vision of a future where everyone has Trump's hair and I fainted.
posted by XMLicious at 4:36 AM on May 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

I understand why they are going to do it but watching the next week of people doing the diplomatic 'Donald you're amazing' dance is gonna be tough to watch.
posted by Jalliah at 4:48 AM on May 20, 2017 [10 favorites]

I just had a vision of a future where everyone has Trump's hair and I fainted.

The parasitic brain slugs are multiplying?
posted by acb at 4:49 AM on May 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

Personally I'm with the people asking what's wrong with Trump's ties. One of the advantages of standards of male formal dress is that they're rigidly codified and, in a business context, essentially universal. All you have to do to look respectable is follow certain prescribed formulae and spend an appropriate amount of time and/or money on suitable tailoring. How can someone spend a lifetime in business settings and be so oblivious to the advantage attached to following these simple rules (and so unwilling to take advice) that they undertake even ritual diplomacy with a massive knob-arrow dangling from their neck?

Yeah. If you've got money and the slightest modicum of sense, it's pretty hard to fuck up a suit.

...and we know he has money.
posted by leotrotsky at 4:51 AM on May 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

"You can't say what not to say," the source said of Trump, "because that will then be one of the first things he'll say."

"Remember, just don't say you fired Comey for the Russia Thing."

"Got it."
posted by leotrotsky at 4:54 AM on May 20, 2017 [11 favorites]

There's an official website for the summits and events surrounding his visit: https://www.riyadhsummit2017.org/ (has autoplaying loud video halfway down the page).
posted by ZeusHumms at 4:54 AM on May 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

They gave him a big fucking medal, just like a big boy.
posted by stonepharisee at 4:57 AM on May 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

CNN: Callan: Obstruction of justice case just took quantum leap

Doctor Sam Beckett looks in the newly-gilded mirror of the AF 1 bathroom and sees himself as an insane and incompetent dictator beset by scandal at the start of a disastrous world tour.

"Oh boy."
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:58 AM on May 20, 2017 [65 favorites]

Real universe Spicey: "We've pledged full cooperation and are assisting in every way. As he has stated repeatedly, the President welcomes the investigation, because he believes that only full transparency will heal the divisions in our country and allow us to implement an agenda that benefits all Americans."

Alternate-universe-that-we're-stuck-in Spicey: The cookie jar incident is a grandiose delusion doctored up by the Russophobic fake news media. The crumbs on Trump's mouth are lipgloss. The ceramic jar surgically attached to Kushner's hand is a cybernetic implant. Nothing to see here; move on. If you don't move on we'll deny your press credentials/threaten you with imprisonment to make you move on.
posted by Gordion Knott at 5:02 AM on May 20, 2017

In the alternate-universe-that-we're stuck in, the commander of the starship is a foaming-at-the-mouth psychotic, the first officer sports a goatee, and the communications officer defends herself from sexual harassment with a stiletto.
posted by Gordion Knott at 5:04 AM on May 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

"You can't say what not to say," the source said of Trump, "because that will then be one of the first things he'll say."

TRUMP: "So, King Salman, I understand here in Saudi Agrabah you treat women like dogs?"

*Advisors eyes go wide*

KING SALMAN: "Yeah, pretty much."

TRUMP: "My man!"
posted by leotrotsky at 5:05 AM on May 20, 2017 [18 favorites]

> I've been shuddering while imagining if Sessions hadn't been pressured to recuse himself from Trump=Russia issues and was the one in charge of things at the DOJ rather than Rosenstein who is reporting to Congress that a senior White House official is a person of interest.

Thanks for sharing that shudder, because damn. Maybe we've started to drift off the darkest timeline.
posted by klarck at 5:11 AM on May 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

Comey to testify Trump tried to influence him: report
posted by Barack Spinoza at 5:17 AM on May 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

Okay, just one more thing on my Sessions obsession.

This American Life: Transcript: 615: The Beginning of Now

And listen to what seemed completely irrelevant 2 and 1/2 years ago. For the story, Reid went to a party at Breitbart headquarters, a townhouse in Washington, DC, that Bannon called the Breitbart Embassy.

Reid Cherlin
It is a townhouse that looks like any other, really, but I saw some guys in khakis and blue blazers coming in and out with drinks in their hands. And I went in and there was this whole party going on inside. I didn't recognize a lot of people. I recognized Laura Ingraham, the radio host. I recognized Jeff Sessions because years earlier I'd worked in the Senate. And I thought, what is Jeff Sessions doing here?

Ira Glass
Jeff Sessions, of course, an early Trump supporter, now Attorney General of the United State

Reid Cherlin
I remember Jeff Sessions being just the most marginal member of the Senate that there could be. Just an older white guy from Alabama with totally unsurprising positions. And Sessions did not look super comfortable. Everyone at the party was pretty young, by and large. He was there. He looked kind of out of place. And I just thought, why is he here?

Ira Glass
In fact, he and Bannon, and his staff and the Breitbart staff knew each other.

That was in 2014. Well before Trump announced.

Sessions is in every scene.

Okay, I'm done.
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:17 AM on May 20, 2017 [93 favorites]

NYT: Washington’s Trump Mania: ‘I Get Nervous When My Phone Buzzes’

Maria Gorbaty, a 26-year-old graduate student at George Washington University and a member of the “Federal Bureau of Impeachment” trivia team, was keeping up with the news but admitted to being overwhelmed by the informational downpour.

“All of the push notifications,” Ms. Gorbaty said. “One after the other. You kind of get numb to it even though you know you should care.”

posted by ZeusHumms at 5:27 AM on May 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

"You can't say what not to say," the source said of Trump, "because that will then be one of the first things he'll say."

TRUMP: "So, King Salman, I understand here in Saudi Agrabah you treat women like dogs?"

*Advisors eyes go wide*

KING SALMAN: "Yeah, pretty much."

TRUMP: "My man!"

This really is a common thing with people though as with everything Donald takes it to a whole new level.

I taught snowboarding for years and learned this when teaching people, especially when going through trees. You need to look at where you are going and not what you are trying to avoid because at high speeds the board tends to point in the direction you are looking. So in trees you look at the spaces between the trees and not the trees.

When teaching this though the absolute worst thing was to say 'don't look at the trees,' beyond the introduction. You switch to talking only about the spaces because saying 'don't look at the trees' meant people were more likely to look at the the trees and hit them.

Then I figured out that this is the case beyond snowboarding and this tendency can be used and abused in other situations.
posted by Jalliah at 5:27 AM on May 20, 2017 [46 favorites]

"You can't say what not to ~~say~~ do," the source said of ~~Trump~~ Baby Groot, "because that will then be one of the first things he'll ~~say~~ do." That scene includes a nuclear device.
posted by elgilito at 5:59 AM on May 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

Jared Kushner got a waiver to fly because he's shomer shabbat

Who is giving him rabbinical waivers?

Being on a plane (as opposed to, say, flying it) isn't very problematic from an Orthodox halachic point of view. I think we can presume that he won't be obliged to fill out customs or entry forms or, say, carry his own bags. There are some more obscure rules (travelling beyond Sabbath boundaries) but I think they may not apply to a person leaving the ground before Shabbat and landing after its commencement.

As for the pikuach nefesh (saving life) argument, it's generally accepted that Jared and Ivanka have some ability to sway the President. I don't think much of Jared, but that puts him in a position where he may save lives by being a moderating force. I don't think you need an immediate threat under that doctrine, which is why you have Orthodox doctors training on shabbat.

Personally, I'm happy to judge Jared for all sorts of things but in this instance I can totally believe that he's not acting hypocritically. If he were, though, I still wouldn't want people to attack him for his religion. The administration he serves is dangerously incompetent and has plans that will kill, sicken, and immiserate millions of people. That's the real issue, not whether he really asked his rabbi before boarding the flight.
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:16 AM on May 20, 2017 [10 favorites]

Hoo boy. If you want some torture watch the argument between Maher and Boris Ephsteyn on tonight's Real Time. We really are in a national nightmare.

I saw that while flipping channels in a hotel room last night. It looked like two chimps flinging feces at the inside of the tv. Ephsteyn is an awful human being.
posted by photoslob at 6:22 AM on May 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

"You can't say what not to say," the source said of Trump, "because that will then be one of the first things he'll say."

...also Jeff Sessions
posted by leotrotsky at 6:28 AM on May 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

It looked like two chimps flinging feces at the inside of the tv.

It looked like what it was.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:32 AM on May 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

Jeff Sessions's place in this whole Russia/perjury/obstruction clusterfuck stinks like stepped-on shit. I want this asshole to die in jail.
posted by chaoticgood at 6:37 AM on May 20, 2017 [33 favorites]

A couple deleted; please drop the arguments about Kushner and antisemitism here now. I think we can be careful about how we juxtapose references to Kushner's religion with comments about behind the scenes power in order to avoid unintended "Jews secretly run the world" tropes and slurs. If we need to argue it further, then that should happen in Metatalk. Thanks.
posted by taz (staff) at 6:48 AM on May 20, 2017 [14 favorites]

well i woke up this morning and the world is still here so i'm guessing he hasn't given his speech yet?
posted by entropicamericana at 6:50 AM on May 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

well i woke up this morning and the world is still here so i'm guessing he hasn't given his speech yet?

Not yet. But from the drafts so far, in a show of abject ignorance, he plans to plead for greater co-operation on fighting radical islamic terrorism to an audience of which half of them finance and sponsor it.
posted by Talez at 7:05 AM on May 20, 2017 [10 favorites]

If you want some torture watch the argument between Maher and Boris Ephsteyn on tonight's Real Time.

I tried watching but couldn't make it more than three minutes. Maher is so dumb and bad at that faux-sparring thing, every person he brings on completely eats his lunch. So, yes. Torture indeed.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 7:06 AM on May 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

I think it's quite clear that there's a puppet master, or at least someone with a plan, involved. But it isn't the Nefarious Jews, it's Putin.

We're not, yet, to the point where Putin can actually dictate US policy. But he **CAN** do the next best thing which is to sow as much chaos as possible and vastly reduce the influence, power, and focus of the US so he gets more freedom to undertake his own plans worldwide. And the best part is that it's really low effort on his part once Trump was elected.

Putin is a KGB man, he studied the Reagan presidency and knows exactly how a mentally incompetent President surrounded by warring would be puppet masters results in an what is effectively a non-existent presidency. Putin and his people don't need to be doing jack shit on a day to day basis, all they had to do was get Trump in, maybe nudge him on a few appointments, and the rest takes care of itself.

The problem with Trump's presidency isn't the absence of a single puppetmaster or planner, it's the presence of many planners and would be puppet masters all working at cross purposes. Again, we saw this exact pattern (though somewhat less chaotically) during the Reagan presidency.

When you've got a weak leader this is one of the two major possibilities. The other, which we saw with Junior, was the emergence of a single power behind the throne. Japanese history is jam packed with this situation, mostly in the single power behind the throne scenario, but there were plenty of periods of utter chaos as multiple, competing, interests tried to manipulate a weak emperor or shogun.

Kushner, I'm sure, would like to be the puppetmaster. I've got no doubt at all that he does his utmost to play that role. But so does Bannon, and Priebus, and McMaster, and all the others. They all know that all they can do is produce chaos while they work at cross purposes, but none of them are principled enough to bow out for the good of the nation.
posted by sotonohito at 7:09 AM on May 20, 2017 [16 favorites]

NYT: Washington’s Trump Mania: ‘I Get Nervous When My Phone Buzzes’

The WaPo had their own "politics is taking over every aspect of my life" story last week, Trapped in Trumpland: Washingtonians say politics follows them everywhere, even to the strip club.
posted by peeedro at 7:11 AM on May 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

From the WaPo bad headlines article (linked above):

"2) Kevin McCarthy's 'Putin pays' Trump line

"Even if you acknowledge this was a joke, which House GOP leadership say it was, it shows that Republicans were joking about Trump colluding with Russia even before WikiLeaks. That's a story line even Democrats didn't really pick up until much later.

It's not difficult to see Democrats using this to argue that Republicans buried whatever curiosity they had about ties between Trump and Russia as they were working to elect him president."
posted by MonkeyToes at 7:16 AM on May 20, 2017 [41 favorites]

I will be very interested to see how a lot of the left media outlets spin this one - I mean, left blogs that I read and value but am troubled by on this issue. So far it's all been "this is just nothing much, and even if it weren't, we have to remember the intrinsic corruption of the American system." Which, to a point, I agree with...but:

1. We are routinely horrified when the US intervenes in other countries' elections. This is an argument againstcovert US foreign policy, and a really good one! It's become really clear that the Putin government did their level best to intervene in the US election, either just on general "cause chaos" principles or actually to elect Trump. If that's no biggie, why do we care when the US intervenes elsewhere?

What's more, if it's no biggie because the US system is corrupt and there was no truly "left" candidate, why hasn't it been okay for the US to intervene in corrupt democracies? Most of the places where we've pulled strings have been oligarchical and corrupt. Or would it be okay for the Trump administration to try to throw the French election to Le Pen, since the genuinely left candidate wasn't in the final election?

2. The Trump administration obviously has extremely sketchy ties to the Putin government (I would rather not say "Russia", because just like during the Cold War, our problem is not with "Russians", it's with a particular and not especially legit government) and communicates with them off the record in ways that appear to be relatively novel. If this is in fact a new thing as it appears, I don't want it to set precedent. I don't want future administrations to set up workarounds so that the president can talk to foreign leaders with no record and no consultation, and I don't want the possibility of money-laundering into the president's private business while the president is in office. If these things have been going on in a milder fashion under previous administrations, this is a great time to clear the air and stop them - but I don't think they have, or someone would have pointed it out already.

3. Assuming that the Trump campaign actively colluded with the Putin government, I want him investigated and impeached. You don't have to say "we have perfect elections and they must not be besmirched" to realize that active collusion with any foreign government is a bad thing. It's like plagiarizing your PhD - even if you're a strong scholar, even if everyone else is your cohort is mediocre, even if you really only plagiarized one chapter and the rest of it is great, if you plagiarize your dissertation you must go. "Just a little" and "everyone else is terrible" doesn't mean that you get to plagiarize, no matter how true those statements are. And what is more, once the precedent of "well, this PhD program is kind of shitty, so it's okay to plagiarize" is established, it's all downhill from there.

There are a lot of problems with the Democratic party, it's very true - Feinstein-like colluders, rich politicians with rich-people politics and rich-people friends, refusal to address structural racism even if overt racism is condemned, perpetual steering to the right when it's obvious that most voters want to move to the left.

It has been pretty disastrous that in good times, a lot of Democrats don't want to rock the boat - I remember the Clinton years quite well, and how quietist a lot of people got when NAFTA and the new, expanded GATT were passed, when welfare was dismantled, when the Clinton administration sat down with major timber companies to write environmental proposals.

It is a huge problem that this Russia scandal is eating up everyone's attention and momentum. There are terrible things happening by the by as the focus is on Trump's ties to the Putin government.

But none of this is going to be improved by letting election tampering go. Any amount of election tampering is too much and sets an enormously dangerous precedent. The least bare minimum necessity for the US to even have any social reform is not letting our voting process get any worse. Establishing free and fair elections as something that everyone understands and values is the floor for everything else.

This is a bad situation, but the left line that it's unreasonable to focus on Trump when so much else is off the rails is wrong. You have only to look at, for example, the long rule of US- and Britain-backed regimes in Chile, Spain and Greece to see how, once the election process is destroyed, you get twenty, thirty, forty years of fascist populists in power.
posted by Frowner at 7:22 AM on May 20, 2017 [84 favorites]

I wonder if Assange started out as a principled person and was co-opted, or if he started out as an agent of Putin?

I used to think Wikileaks was doing good, but even the good it did can be seen as benefiting Putin if you look at it right. Putin wasn't allied with the American left, but he did want the US out of Iraq and Afghanistan, leaking the Collateral Murder video helped the anti-war left and also had the effect of reducing US influence in Putin's desired sphere of influence. So did Assange let Wikileaks release the video because of deep principles, or because Putin wanted it released?

Or both? It doesn't have to be either or, at least at first.
posted by sotonohito at 7:32 AM on May 20, 2017 [9 favorites]

When I think about Assange, I think about the structural problem of imperialism. Assange himself seems like an unattractive person, but frankly I've met some sorta-creepy media activist men who do really good work and don't, like, meet with UKIP.

The trouble is that from a military/legal/long-reach standpoint, the world is ruled by a handful of imperial powers, with the US being dominant. So if you're a left person and you have a real, serious problem with the US and you can prove it, where do you go? You're pushed toward the only other powers that are at all counterweights, predominantly Russia. Even countries like Sweden which are relatively liberal internally aren't going to stand up to the US.

I think it's telling that of the three big foreign policy whistleblowers, the one who ended up in prison was the one who had the fewest media/political connections. If you have connections, you go to Russia or you hole up with one of the few other powers who can sort of stand up to the US. If you're just some citizen who is horrified by what you see, you shut up or spend seven years being tormented in prison, denied blankets, isolated, etc.

I am not a fan of the way Wikileaks has dispersed its information, especially recently. But all the whistleblowers have revealed information that, to varying degree, shows real, damaging, horrible and immoral behavior by the US government. The US government is not out to get them for mere procedural reasons - the US government is out to get them in order to cover up its own behavior and discourage similar revelations.

But the thing is, when the world is ruled by a handful of large powers who are violent and undemocratic in their foreign policy, anyone who seriously challenges them or reveals what they want secret has very, very few options.

I don't like Assange and I think the sexual assault charges against him are very plausible. I do wonder if the bad options (probable extradition for a show trial in the US, living in a room at the Embassy for the indefinite future) contoured how he chose to deploy Wikileaks.

On an individual level, those decisions are his and reveal what kind of person he is - he wanted to throw the election to Trump, heedless of what that means for everyone else. On a population level, his actions are a symptom, and if you put enough people under Assange-like pressures, one of them is going to be an Assange.
posted by Frowner at 7:46 AM on May 20, 2017 [21 favorites]

Or both? It doesn't have to be either or, at least at first.

Parenthetically, Assange was one of the people behind the 'interrogation proof' filesystem intended to protect people in oppressive regimes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubberhose_(file_system)
posted by mikelieman at 7:47 AM on May 20, 2017

This is a bad situation, but the left line that it's unreasonable to focus on Trump when so much else is off the rails is wrong.

I agree, and it means a great deal to me to hear it from you, Frowner, but I'll be damned if it seems to matter at all to the GreenwaldoBros all over social media.

I mean, I expect to hear "compromised elections are no big deal" coming from the MAGA hats, but seeing my fellow travelers on the left shrugging so hard they may dislocate a shoulder is just ... dispiriting.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 7:50 AM on May 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

From what I've seen, the venn diagram of "leftists" who dismiss Russia's interference in the election and "leftists" who were really obvious in their misogyny the entire fucking election is pretty much a perfect circle.

The Russia story messes with their virulent Hillary hate, and the virulent Hillary hate wins, every time.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:00 AM on May 20, 2017 [56 favorites]

Another item on the briefing list "How to Prepare for Trump": "Have a gold thing to give him."
posted by jocelmeow at 8:04 AM on May 20, 2017 [11 favorites]

Anderson Cooper finally goes there with Jeffrey Lord: "If he took a dump on his desk you would defend it." 💩

Cooper has apologized for 'crude' remark

In other news media updates, Bob Beckel Fired From Fox News’ ‘The Five’ After Racist Remark
posted by zakur at 8:10 AM on May 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

-- We note with interest that the ACHA CBO score will come out the day before the election.

The Quist campaign probably has the commercial all ready to go and is just waiting to plug in the specific "number of millions screwed" figure. Godspeed, Rob.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:11 AM on May 20, 2017 [9 favorites]

Trump has been taking a figurative dump on the Resolute Desk since the day he took office, and it's Anderson fucking Cooper who has to apologize?
posted by Barack Spinoza at 8:13 AM on May 20, 2017 [40 favorites]

I mean, I expect to hear "compromised elections are no big deal" coming from the MAGA hats, but seeing my fellow travelers on the left shrugging so hard they may dislocate a shoulder is just ... dispiriting.

I think a problem is that we're all living in unprecedented times, and we have to watch out for fighting the last war. I assume that everyone who has any type of ideology is doing this in ways that we are blind to - we can see what others are doing but not what we are.

So "compromised elections don't matter because the US is terrible" is basically a last-war position - it's a refusal to see the newness of what's going on right now and the long-term implications.

I think the center left/left-liberals did get...not complacent, exactly, but a bit oblivious in the past few years to what a disaster was impending. There were a lot of things that were visible and very, very disquieting that people noticed but did not put together - on one hand, the rise of the alt-right, the bubbling of internet cultures, the ways that the internet changed left social formations, etc; and on the other, the real deterioration of material life for a lot of people despite Obamacare and other policy improvements*, the loss of state legislatures and the deterioration of the Democratic party. All this was covered up by the fact that some things were getting better and there were some real victories.

Also, political cultures are really hard to shift. This is something that I've noticed and it really scares me. I'm a bit of a weak person and kind of a people-pleaser (when people tell you who they are, you should listen!) and I know that there have been times in my life that I've avoided certain lines of thought because they are not acceptable in my political milieu. This is as true of liberalism as it is of anarchism, and I assume it's true of the MAGA hats too. I think this - because I don't think I'm the only person like this - makes it really hard for entrenched political formations to respond to new situations effectively.

I think this is why it's important to read political material that is near-but-different - I'm not saying we all need to read, like, the American Prospect, but it's definitely worth reading and taking seriously the arguments advanced by other left-of-center formations.

I think the problem is that we all tend to assume that problems identified by others don't real. It really frosts me to read some communist piece of writing that's all "the problems you notice about the world, center leftists, are just fake garbage problems and if you were communists they wouldn't even exist", but we write the same way. There are lots of problems! There are even lots of solutions! (Fundamentally, I drift back toward Chomskyist anarchism, actually, because I'm basically a pluralist about how the world should look - I don't think it has to be the triumph of one system.)

Basically, we've all got to think to the limits of our capacity to think, whatever that is, and act with as much probity as possible even if other people play the fool, and that's difficult.

*This isn't the "economic anxiety" argument - it's about the deteriorating state of the country as a whole, not about who voted for Trump. We are turning into a 20% upper middle class/80% poor society, and that's affecting everything.
posted by Frowner at 8:13 AM on May 20, 2017 [39 favorites]

So if you're a left person and you have a real, serious problem with the US and you can prove it, where do you go?

Oh, I dunno. The press?

I mean, if I came across a trove of information proving corruption, extrajudicial executions, and illegal spying on my fellow Americans, my first instinct wouldn't be to buddy up to some Russians to help me get that information out. Because what Americans do secretly, the Russians do openly.
posted by xyzzy at 8:17 AM on May 20, 2017 [22 favorites]

Best two signs at the Brooklyn Half Marathon today:

"There's impeachment at the finish line"
"You're running faster than Trump is from the FBI"
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:21 AM on May 20, 2017 [58 favorites]

I agree with Frowner.

I'm just going to add that as an autocorrect shortcut and save myself a lot of trouble.
posted by howfar at 8:24 AM on May 20, 2017 [18 favorites]

Cooper has apologized for ~~'crude' remark~~ saying what anyone with a brain has been thinking ever since Jeffrey Lord turned up on CNN.

The only people who should have to apologize are the ones who put Lord up on television in the first place. I get why he's up there: rational conservatives aren't interested in defending Twitler, but CNN feels like they owe some sort of counterpoint view, so when they couldn't find a rational conservative to do it they settled for an irrational one. But it's incredible to me that they're so desperate for that counterpoint that they've accepted the blistering idiocy and bald-faced lying that comes from Lord.

Every time I see that asshole, I think, "Someone thinks it's acceptable to put him on television. And that person even gets a paycheck."
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:25 AM on May 20, 2017 [14 favorites]

I second the remark ages ago now that the Trump Horseman Watch ended up being completely useless. I'm sure the Impeach-O-Meter will be the same. But clearly Ben Mathis-Lilley is obsessed with this sort of thing.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:26 AM on May 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

Wikileaks tried to be a second solution to an already-solved problem (investigative journalism being the first solution--and while there may be less investigative journalism in our current era, there's not none). My husband insists that at first Wikileaks was holding themselves to the same standards as investigative journalists (I am dubious on this point), but clearly at a certain point Assange decided fuck it, having ethics is hard, Russia loves it when I spill the tea and that pisses off all the people who I hate, so let's go!
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:26 AM on May 20, 2017 [7 favorites]

I wonder if Assange started out as a principled person and was co-opted, or if he started out as an agent of Putin?

Much of Assange's behaviour can be understood, in my view, if you simply assume he's in love with his own opinion, and that's he's a raging egotist. He is highly attention-seeking as well. Dangle a sensation that he can use to elevate his profile and self-opinion in front of him and he doesn't ask too many questions.

The Russians aren't seeking control. They want to weaken the NATO-allied countries by throwing these info-bombs at the weak-points in centuries-old electoral systems. They've done it now with both the American and the Westminster systems, IMO.
posted by bonehead at 8:31 AM on May 20, 2017 [9 favorites]

While everyone is talking to white Trump voters, Daniel Dale went to talk to black voters
posted by nubs at 8:33 AM on May 20, 2017 [59 favorites]

From what I've seen, the venn diagram of "leftists" who dismiss Russia's interference in the election and "leftists" who were really obvious in their misogyny the entire fucking election is pretty much a perfect circle.

I know we're been around and around on this, but there are those whose hate for Hillary and the Democratic Party is motivated more by ideological disdain for neoliberalism/globalism/whatever-you-want-to-call-it than by misogyny. I'm thinking specifically of a journalist-and-novelist friend who has done a lot of reporting on African women's plight vis-à-vis AIDS, domestic violence, labor, international trade, politics, polygamy, and imperialism for a renowned and respected newspaper, and who also creates strong, independent fictional female characters, who is a total Kool-Aid drinker when it comes to the nutty-left "there's no proof of Russian collusion or interference in the election!" stuff. I believe that misogyny was a bigger factor than economic leftism for most anti-Hillary folks on the left as well as the right, but painting with too broad a brush is a mistake IMO.

FWIW she has agreed to praise me daily on Facebook for a year if she's wrong. I'm looking forward to the daily ego boost. Of course the challenge will be to get her to acknowledge the meaning and significance of the evidence that does come out.
posted by Lyme Drop at 8:45 AM on May 20, 2017 [7 favorites]

The only people who should have to apologize are the ones who put Lord up on television in the first place. I get why he's up there: rational conservatives aren't interested in defending Twitler, but CNN feels like they owe some sort of counterpoint view, so when they couldn't find a rational conservative to do it they settled for an irrational one. But it's incredible to me that they're so desperate for that counterpoint that they've accepted the blistering idiocy and bald-faced lying that comes from Lord.

CNN does not feel like they "owe a counterpoint". Rather, they know that presenting a counterpoint is good for their ratings. And not just a counterpoint, even better if it looks like there's an actual controversy. It's not a "news" network, it's gawking at cage matches.

So, Jeffrey Lord does not actually believe any of the things he says about Trump - he's just an actor who is paid by CNN to say those things on live TV. And whether Anderson Cooper's exasperation with him was genuine or just an act is anyone's guess. In any case, it made the rounds on Twitter, which is good for ratings again.

BTW, if you want to see what happens when a station fails to play this game anymore, just look at FoxNews. They've been ignoring or downplaying the scandal, calling it "boring", and promptly their ratings dropped.

Also, happy birthday, kanata.
posted by sour cream at 8:49 AM on May 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

So, Jeffrey Lord does not actually believe any of the things he says about Trump - he's just an actor who is paid by CNN to say those things on live TV.

The first clause doesn't imply the second. Kellyanne doesn't believe the shit she says, but that doesn't make her an actress, just a soulless flack.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:56 AM on May 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

Riane Konc, New Yorker: What's in James Comey's memos?

The House Oversight Committee, the Senate Intelligence Committee, and the Senate Judiciary Committee have all requested access to the memos of James Comey, the former F.B.I. director. Here are excerpts from those documents:

Betsy DeVos stopped by and said she was having everyone in the office sign Earth’s birthday card. “Happy Earth Day!” it said. “You don’t look a day over six thousand.”

* * *

Met with Trump today. At the end of our meeting, he tried to give me a beaded friendship bracelet he said he made at Camp David. Upon closer examination, I realized that the beads spelled out “Loyal 2 Trump 4 Eva.” Politely refused.

* * *

Someone lit a bag of feces on fire and left it outside my office door. Started to wonder who put it there but then noticed the “Onward Together” sticker.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:03 AM on May 20, 2017 [16 favorites]

My First Big Boy Trip (via Slate)

Damn.
posted by lord_wolf at 9:27 AM on May 20, 2017 [40 favorites]

For the sake of publicizing one of my Twitter faves, the incomparable Sopan Deb, here is a link to the tweet spitbull referenced above.

Mr. Cooper has since apologized for the remark. I was willing to give him a pass for simply telling a plain truth in, um, a colorful fashion, but evidently others feel differently.
posted by Silverstone at 9:33 AM on May 20, 2017

actual foxnews headline: Trump shakes hands with Saudi leader, doesn't bow as Obama appeared to do

Except: oh wait
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:39 AM on May 20, 2017 [20 favorites]

Cooper's comment says more about the worthlessness of cable news than it does about Jeffrey Lord. If he's such a hack, why did you book him on your show?
posted by tonycpsu at 9:40 AM on May 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

doesn't bow as Obama appeared to do

"Ignorance is Strength."
posted by Coventry at 9:42 AM on May 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

Jesus we apes and our dominance displays. At least Trump didn't try to yank him off his feet. But that picture, Rust, looks like he's ducking a bit to get his fancy bobble, not bowing. The Ugly American trope has reached its apex with this trip.
posted by thebrokedown at 9:44 AM on May 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

tonycpsu, with regard to CNN's counterpoint people, I don't know that the hosts have all that much choice in who is on the payroll. My understanding was that those decisions are made elsewhere in the organization and the hosts are expected to deal. Apparently, to politely deal, no matter the provocation.
posted by Silverstone at 9:47 AM on May 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

I'm sorry, it's "bauble." A bauble for the bobblehead.
posted by thebrokedown at 10:06 AM on May 20, 2017 [7 favorites]

Reuters Poll: 75% job approval among Republicans.

Sub-80% is supposedly a bad, bad sign for the GOP in the midterms.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:14 AM on May 20, 2017 [41 favorites]

in a year in which roger stone is intimately involved in a sprawling political scandal involving the president and russian intelligence, and hate golem roger ailes finally collapsed back into his material components, i had an idle thought that maybe politics in america will finally improve when everyone involved in the nixon administration finally dies.

probably not.
posted by murphy slaw at 10:19 AM on May 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

Reuters Poll: 75% job approval among Republicans.

holy shit, that is an epic drop. that's down five points in a week!
posted by murphy slaw at 10:22 AM on May 20, 2017 [23 favorites]

I hope he wears that stupid medal all the time.
posted by Artw at 10:26 AM on May 20, 2017 [35 favorites]

i had an idle thought that maybe politics in america will finally improve when everyone involved in the nixon administration finally dies.

Heh, I had that same thought just yesterday, except about healing the damage caused by this administration. Whatever infected Nixon has already been generationally propagated and we're gonna be dealing with this shit unto the far future.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:26 AM on May 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

As long as Trump avoids literally shitting himself on this trip, it will be hailed as a success.

I'm wondering if the leaks will dry up, now that everyone's on the plane.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:28 AM on May 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

I'm wondering if the leaks will dry up, now that everyone's on the plane.

in a much funnier universe than this one, it was melania all along
posted by murphy slaw at 10:31 AM on May 20, 2017 [17 favorites]

As long as Trump avoids literally shitting himself on this trip, it will be hailed as a success.

I guess that's the one thing we aren't worried about?
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:32 AM on May 20, 2017 [8 favorites]

The Saudis see how Putin plays him and they know exactly how to play the same game. Without even four full months in office, with his only real "accomplishment" being the appointment of a Supreme Court justice, and with everything being a failure and a shitshow... they gave him a medal. And I'll bet you anything he loves that medal and he brags about it constantly from here on out.

I could swear I remember hearing something about participation trophies last year...?
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:33 AM on May 20, 2017 [38 favorites]

If there isn't a microphone in that medal I'll bake a cake and eat it.
posted by Freon at 10:35 AM on May 20, 2017 [27 favorites]

I could swear I remember hearing something about participation trophies last year...?

That's exactly what he was whining for after Trumpcare 1.0. He worked sooooooo hard! For seventeen whole days! He left it all on the field. All of it.
posted by XMLicious at 10:39 AM on May 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

The Saudis see how Putin plays him and they know exactly how to play the same game. Without even four full months in office, with his only real "accomplishment" being the appointment of a Supreme Court justice, and with everything being a failure and a shitshow... they gave him a medal. And I'll bet you anything he loves that medal and he brags about it constantly from here on out.

Oh yes: "It isn't a Muslim ban! I love the Muslims! I love 'em so much they gave me this tremendous medal for it, see?"
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:57 AM on May 20, 2017 [7 favorites]

I hope every country he visits gives him some stupid meaningless medal and he wears them all at once in a kind of bullshit Sheriff Clarke style uniform.
posted by Artw at 11:10 AM on May 20, 2017 [38 favorites]

I kinda hope it plays out that way, too. He's already got so much Third World despot behavior going on there's no reason he shouldn't walk around covered in bullshit medals, too.

Although once the world takes a gold-plated dump on him and he walks around in it proudly Jeffrey Lord will still defend him.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:16 AM on May 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

A right-wing youtube channel is livestreaming Saudi state TV's (flattering) coverage of Trump's speech and the chat is interesting reading. 1/3 praise kek and the god-emperor, lock her up, 1/3 what no we hate muslims what is this shit no trump please no what are you doing, 1/3 in arabic.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:17 AM on May 20, 2017 [7 favorites]

Notre Dame student group plans a commencement walkout tomorrow in honor of Pence.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:22 AM on May 20, 2017 [31 favorites]

Iran: Hassan Rouhani wins landslide in huge victory for reformists
posted by XMLicious at 11:24 AM on May 20, 2017 [20 favorites]

You know, I bet there's money to be made in having a place for people to scream at stand-ins for Trump. Or a dunking Trump water tank. You know, you have some Trump look-a-like pouting and wham! In the water floating.

When I lived in Portland in the late eighties there was this parade where somebody had the paper mache decapitated head of Barbara Bush on a stick. Back then, in my supposedly radical late teens, I was like, that's too much.

Now in my supposedly reasonable late forties, living in the fucking affluent Philly suburbs, I'm like 'I will pay cash for the opportunity to tear into chunks a clay replica of Donald Trump.' I'm not advocating violence, please understand me. I just have this pent-up feeling of wanting to express my absolute never-ending hatred of the man.
posted by angrycat at 11:26 AM on May 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

I bet there's money to be made in having a place for people to scream at stand-ins for Trump.

App developers are way ahead of you.
posted by Coventry at 11:28 AM on May 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

Angrycat, would this scratch your itch?
posted by Too-Ticky at 11:35 AM on May 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

Here is a video clip of that curtsy/bow if you want to judge the action yourself:

@Kenneth P. Vogel

Politico : Saudis give Trump a reception fit for a king

In a grand reception room at the Royal Court, decorated with glitzy chandeliers, a plush blue-and-white carpet and high-backed chairs, Trump was awarded the gold medallion, known as the King Abdul Aziz Collar. The medal, considered the highest honor in Saudi Arabia, was bestowed on Trump for “his efforts to strengthen the relationship between the two friendly countries,” and placed around Trump’s neck by the hands of the king.

This takes hypocrisy to a masterful level. The Saudis give Trump, the man who said he wanted to ban all Muslims from entering the country, a medal for his efforts to strengthen the friendship with Saudi Arabia. Well to be fair Saudi Arabia was not on his list of banned countries AND he did set up that massive arms deal.* I guess that shows friendship.

I don't know what he plans to do with that medal but first he will have to declare it as a gift and buy it back from the US Gov't at fair market value. Wonder how much gold is in that thing.

*HuffPo The $110 Billion Arms Deal Trump Just Signed With Saudi Arabia May Be Illegal
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:49 AM on May 20, 2017 [22 favorites]

The sad saga of thoroughbred D.J. Trump, Donald Trump’s lone foray into horse racing:

D.J. Trump had everything a young racehorse needed to become a champion: great genes, a wise trainer, and an owner with deep pockets. But then, as the story goes, the horse’s casino magnate owner made an ill-informed, impatient decision that nearly killed the horse, ultimately costing the thoroughbred its front hoofs.

The article fails to mention that Trump's horse broker was mobbed up and his daughter was another woman Trump moved on like a bitch.
posted by peeedro at 11:49 AM on May 20, 2017 [13 favorites]

Here is a great story about how Gov. Mike Pence of Indiana pretended to be completely in the dark about a brewing scandal.

Shakesville: Don't Buy Mike Pence's Innocent Act

Perhaps most famously, Pence claimed, exactly as he is now, that he learned from the press about the proposal for a state-run and taxpayer-funded news (propaganda) outlet: "I frankly learned about the memo from press reports late Monday."

He made this incredible claim despite the fact that two employees had already been hired; that "a governance board of communications directors" had been established; that a draft story had already been circulated; and that Pence himself had tweeted about it.

And he claimed that he learned about it from the media, just as he is claiming now.

This is his go-to move to try to disassociate himself from troubling stories that go public via leaks. He feigns ignorance, because it's preferable to look like he's out of the loop than intractably corrupt.

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:55 AM on May 20, 2017 [42 favorites]

I feel like Kushner's hatred of Chris Christie provided easy cover for his removal from he transition team and the installation of Mike Pence, but it really doesn't add up for me. Pence's faux ignorance is bullshit, he is up to his ears in this.
posted by gatorae at 12:02 PM on May 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

Two videos:

1. please enjoy this footage of the secretaries of commerce and state dancing awkwardly while holding swords

2. And here is President Trump dancing in Saudi Arabia.

He can dance, or sway, or whatever, with anyone he wants, but as many people have noted, I suspect Fox News would have a different spin on this if it was President Obama in that video.

I feel a little bad for him that he didn't get to hold a sword though. On a previous occasion, Prince Charles got one.
posted by zachlipton at 12:08 PM on May 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

kanata, it's my birthday too, and I hope it's a good one for both of us. And consequently a bad one for certain others.
posted by nat at 12:11 PM on May 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

For Louise Mensch "fans" out there:

Patribotics blog EXCLUSIVE: Judiciary Committee Considering Articles of Impeachment

By Louise Mensch and Claude Taylor

Multiple sources close to the intelligence, justice and law enforcement communities say that the House Judiciary Committee is considering Articles of Impeachment against the President of the United States.

Sources further say that the Supreme Court notified Mr. Trump that the formal process of a case of impeachment against him was begun, before he departed the country on Air Force One. The notification was given, as part of the formal process of the matter, in order that Mr. Trump knew he was not able to use his powers of pardon against other suspects in Trump-Russia cases. Sources have confirmed that the Marshal of the Supreme Court spoke to Mr. Trump.

It was reported this week that Mr. Trump had texted Lt. Gen. Mike Flynn the message ‘Stay strong’. This might be interpreted as an attempt to intimidate a witness, sources say.

Deputy Attorney General Rosenstein met with the House Judiciary Committee this week in closed session.

The authors have previously reported exclusively on Patribotics that a sealed indictment exists against Donald Trump.

[I quoted the whole thing so you don't have to visit the website.

2 things. First the blog name. I'm guessing probiotic + patriots? Whatever. It's a hell of a name to pronounce and to write.

Second whoever wrote this hasn't a clue as to how the American government actually works and most importantly how the impeachment process starts. Hint, it does not involve the Supreme Court.

At any rate if you do have Mensch fans in your life and they happen to know how the government works, you might want to point them to this blog.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:14 PM on May 20, 2017 [12 favorites]

I feel a little bad for him that he didn't get to hold a sword though. On a previous occasion, Prince Charles got one.

If you watch the clip he is given a sword but he just holds it down by his side so it disappears from view.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:16 PM on May 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

I feel a little bad for him that he didn't get to hold a sword though.

Don't worry he got to hold a sword.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 12:18 PM on May 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

Patribotics blog EXCLUSIVE

Yogurt that makes you poop red, white, and blue?
posted by schadenfrau at 12:19 PM on May 20, 2017 [13 favorites]

Make Acidophilus Gastrointestinal Again
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:23 PM on May 20, 2017 [18 favorites]

This I can tell you, they're fantastic people, the Saudis, and they never gave Obama a medal, believe me.

That's because at this point in his presidency Obama had already won the Nobel Peace Prize.
posted by Room 641-A at 12:27 PM on May 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

According to twitter, The President, Melania, and the King all slowly rolled past the Toby Keith concert in a golf cart. I can honestly say I don't envy them. It's probably still 99 degrees outside plus Toby Keith. Hell. on. Earth.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:28 PM on May 20, 2017 [22 favorites]

Large numbers of fake accounts have been used to strategically disseminate political propaganda and mislead voters. These accounts draw everyday users into “astroturf” political groups disguised as legitimate grass-roots movements. […]

Facebook […] has the metadata to identify precisely which accounts were created, where they operated and what kinds of things those users were up to during the U.S. election. Their data scientists could probably provide some insights that the intelligence services cannot.

The company argues that fake accounts have been participating in only a small amount of the overall activity around politics and public life in the United States. But even a small percentage of total Facebook activity, if concentrated strategically, could be influential. Was the activity mostly in swing states? Did it occur in the months of the Republican primaries and originate with accounts seeded from Russia? Or did fake-news and fake- account activity peak in the three days before the election?

Phil Howard, Robert Gorwa: "Facebook could tell us how Russia interfered in our elections. Why won’t it?"
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 12:32 PM on May 20, 2017 [32 favorites]

The President, Melania, and the King all slowly rolled past the Toby Keith concert in a golf cart.

And? Where's the rest of the joke?
posted by bongo_x at 12:34 PM on May 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

We're living it.
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:35 PM on May 20, 2017 [56 favorites]

2 things. First the blog name. I'm guessing probiotic + patriots? Whatever. It's a hell of a name to pronounce and to write.

Oh god it's the primaries and POLITICUSUSA and all this shit all over again.

I lost track of how many "but this shows Bernie actually won!" articles I saw last year. And how many times I told people no, this isn't news and it sure isn't reality. And then some were like, "Yeah, I know, but it makes me feel better, and maybe...?" so they just kept sharing bullshit online.

The 2016 election is never going to fucking end. It's just going register new domain names.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:36 PM on May 20, 2017 [13 favorites]

@RogerJStoneJr: Candidly this makes me want to puke #JaredsIdea (with picture of DJT getting his medal).
posted by AwkwardPause at 12:38 PM on May 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

And the punchline is......

I don't know. Maybe Toby Keith singing songs about freedom at a Men Only concert? I guess that's why the golf cart couldn't stop. I do know that is why the press pool (which is a woman tonight) was stuck inside the hotel watching a live-feed of the concert.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:38 PM on May 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

The notification was given, as part of the formal process of the matter, in order that Mr. Trump knew he was not able to use his powers of pardon against other suspects in Trump-Russia cases.

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm 99.9% sure this is not true. The President can pardon anyone he wants. For any reason. For as long as he remains President. I would be so, so happy if someone corrected me though.
posted by Glibpaxman at 12:39 PM on May 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

The President, Melania, and the King all slowly rolled past the Toby Keith concert in a golf cart.

The king said "should we stop and watch this asshole?"

Melania replied "no thank you, I was staying in New York so I wouldn't have to watch him. "
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:39 PM on May 20, 2017 [29 favorites]

I'm dying to see some pictures of the golf cart jaunt just to see if Melania is still wearing her giant gold belt and if Donald is still wearing his giant gold necklace.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:41 PM on May 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

The President can pardon anyone he wants. For any reason. For as long as he remains President. I would be so, so happy if someone corrected me though.

Article II, Section II: "...he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment."

The fact that it's "offences against the United States" is generally interpreted to mean the president can't pardon in civil or state cases. (I'm going with what the Heritage Foundation says there, and they're a pretty conservative org, so.) I don't know if that's ever been put to the test in court. But the lack of ability to intervene in an impeachment is there in the text. Given that 45's goons wouldn't be up for impeachment but rather for criminal offenses, I couldn't tell you where the boundary lies.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:45 PM on May 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

"Facebook could tell us how Russia interfered in our elections. Why won’t it?"

Oo, oo, I know this one!

Because their main source of revenue is control of that data and crafting data packages for advertisers that look like they have a positive effect and are worth the money spent to advertise on their platform.

If they were to do the analysis in a way that clearly showed the methods used to manipulate the elections, they'd expose "trade secrets" which would both show how the effectiveness of paid advertisement versus "free viral campaigns" (such as the ones used on social media to astro-turf certain segments of the population) means they'd lose advertising dollars, which is, of course, their bread and butter.

The funny part is that the disinformation campaign was actually enabled by facebook's other revenue stream, which is just selling the data wholesale to data brokers. These are business-to-business companies that buy aggregate data and then run their own analysis on them (i.e. Cambridge Analytica) and the bulk data they are buying is then sold to ad firms as targeted marketing information. You want to target a market segment that identifies as conservative, religious (likely Christian, likely Evangelical), with a penchant for clicking on clickbait with a Right-wing tone? You can buy that segment and then target them with ad buys. Or don't even bother with the ad buy, just create a few dozen sock-puppet (but tacitly believable "real enough" looking) accounts, join some of the facebook groups or friend request a bunch of your target marks and just start posting your content and watch the click juice roll in. The multiplier effect and behavioral models of your targets means your effective cost to effective return is now way way higher than something that is actually labeled as an advertisement.

Do that a couple times a week (or a couple times a day) and you've got an effective dis-info campaign that has just enough push on the public consciousness to move an entire country.

"Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world." - Archimedes

Alternatively, give me enough small levers and enough fulcrums, and I can shift a societies perception and they won't even know I'm doing it. - probably some ad guy
posted by daq at 12:49 PM on May 20, 2017 [47 favorites]

So he can't pardon himself or Pence from getting impeached out of office but he can pardon everyone from going to club fed including himself?
posted by Glibpaxman at 12:50 PM on May 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

I love this description from the pool report:

Around 10 p.m., POTUS was wheeled into the atrium where the men-only Toby Keith concert was playing on the large screen. He was riding in a large-sized golf cart with a roof, seated next to the King, and took a long stare at the concert screen as he drove by. FLOTUS was riding on the back of the golf cart.

So they flew Toby Keith all the way there so Trump can look at him on a screen as he drives past?
posted by zachlipton at 12:59 PM on May 20, 2017 [15 favorites]

So is Jared making himself scarce or has he been spotted?
posted by orrnyereg at 1:02 PM on May 20, 2017

I cut off the quote there, but Jared and Ivanka were on the next golf cart behind them.
posted by zachlipton at 1:04 PM on May 20, 2017

Sources have confirmed that the Marshal of the Supreme Court spoke to Mr. Trump.

okay but did his uniform have a gold fringe on it
posted by murphy slaw at 1:08 PM on May 20, 2017 [11 favorites]

The President, Melania, and the King all slowly rolled past the Toby Keith concert in a golf cart.

The king said "should we stop and watch this asshole?"

Melania replied, "Darling, the King is talking to you."
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:10 PM on May 20, 2017 [29 favorites]

okay i should drop the louise mensch/claude taylor thing but…

claude taylor's twitter bio claims that he's worked on political campaigns and served as a white house staffer - is there any outside confirmation of this?

because his understanding of the operations of the federal government does not seem commensurate with that of a sophomore in high school who's taken a civics class, let alone a political operative
posted by murphy slaw at 1:16 PM on May 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

Mike Pence is a pious and god-fearing man
Whose life is quite arseless and titless
To guard against sin, his Mother's at hand
In case lust makes him even more witless

He keeps all commandments that Moses declared
Except one that's high on his shitlist
If he's caught with his own sainted arse in the merde
He's Satan's own falsest ol' witness
posted by Devonian at 1:25 PM on May 20, 2017 [38 favorites]

Man. Finally hit the end.

Now that the news cycle has slowed down, at least for a moment, I'm trying to catch up and integrate all of the crazy stuff of the last week. I feel like we've had like 10 news drops that would normally occupy a month of analysis, but instead we got them all at once. I hope whoever writes the next thread is able to bring them together and sum them up, I know I can't be the only one who is utterly confused here.
posted by zug at 1:28 PM on May 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

I bet he learned everything he knows from the Supreme Court Marshall that lives in his head and shouts "Oyez" whenever he makes something up about the US Government.

I can confirm, though, that he had a staff position running White House Volunteer Office under Clinton for a couple years in the 90s and later became a travel photographer. While I would think you could pick up something about basic civics just by osmosis there, he doesn't seem to have accomplished that.
posted by zachlipton at 1:28 PM on May 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

I hope whoever writes the next thread is able to bring them together and sum them up, I know I can't be the only one who is utterly confused here.

This timeline is a good recap of the last two weeks. I've been looking back over it a bunch lately.
posted by zachlipton at 1:30 PM on May 20, 2017 [10 favorites]

I agree that, if everyone keeps handling 45 like the dynamite toddler monkey he is, we may escape - sadly - from a meltdown.

There is another entertaining possibility, though - that some canny leader will pick just the right moment and take the opportunity to publicly ask him a favour, extracting a Presidential promise of staggering ineptitude.

If it was me, I'd ask for him to get NASA to build me a robot space unicorn. Other despots may have more... mundane plans.
posted by Devonian at 1:37 PM on May 20, 2017 [7 favorites]

Fulcra.
posted by yhbc at 1:41 PM on May 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

Other than the fact that he hates being away from his home, I suspect Trump may be loving the trip so far. He delights in being the center of attention, getting praise and adulation, and so forth. All our speculation about a meltdown may come to naught.

I agree that, if everyone keeps handling 45 like the dynamite toddler monkey he is, we may escape - sadly - from a meltdown.

I also like to watch the suffering and humiliation of cruel and wicked men, but I'm fine with Trump not throwing any tantrums and starting any wars on this trip.
posted by EatTheWeek at 1:47 PM on May 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

There is a theory that the real point to having servants is too prop up your own status. Like the sight of somebody serving you makes you seem higher status.

I think most of the places Trump is visiting acknowledge this and will do what they can to make Trump look and feel high status. It won't change him in any positive way but he'll almost certainly finish this trip feeling like he's a big deal and looking like a bigger deal to his followers.

Honestly he doesn't have to do much more than keep his mouth shut and his twitter inactive to leave this trip looking highest status. As always, he's the only thing that will wreck this.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:51 PM on May 20, 2017 [7 favorites]

Whether he bowed, curtsied, or just leaned over to receive his gold medal, he did clutch the arm of the king while it was being draped around his neck.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 1:53 PM on May 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

Have tried keeping up with this post-election thread but can't; heck knows how I did it before (though I guess it wasn't summer, or the cricket season, then). There's some way to go before the next big event so going to drop out for a while and do nature and sleep and cricket and stuff.
posted by Wordshore at 1:58 PM on May 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

There is another entertaining possibility, though - that some canny leader will pick just the right moment and take the opportunity to publicly ask him a favour, extracting a Presidential promise of staggering ineptitude.

An old man approaches President Donald Trump. Seeing his red MAGA hat the President motions for his Secret Service detail to allow him in. The man, speaking with a strong Russian accent, graciously thanks President Trump. He also praises his large hands, hot wife, and totally awesome golden tastes. Donald sees the man for what he is - an obvious genius and possible choice for Press Secretary. But the man goes further, asking President Trump if he wants more gold, the best gold, and more than he ever imagined.

"Are you offering me a deal? Because I wrote the best selling book on deals, and I only make great ones. It sounds like you have something big league to offer me."
"Mr. President, I'm almost afraid to offer you this deal. I know that anyone else would rob me blind and just take advantage of me. I decided to come to you because I trust that we can work together."
"Oh, you can trust me, believe me. Just ask all my friends, I'm the most trustable President ever. Did you see that election? Everyone said I couldn't win, everyone! But because I am so honest I beat crooked Hillary Clinton in a landslide. Just take a look at this map."
"That's amazing, Mr President. I always thought it was impossible for a Republican to win the electoral college."

The old man reaches into his ragged jacket, looks around suspiciously, and whispers into President Trump's ear, "These are worth a lot, Barack Obama threw them away because 'scientists' said they were bullshit. But we both know a good deal when we see one, right? I've heard that if you plant them you can have all the gold you could ever want."
"Obama threw these away? What an idiot! That guy is such a dope."
"Mr President, I love my country. All I want is for you to succeed. So I'd be willing to give you the magic beans. I think you could use them to Make America Great Again. Just... Well, I've always been fascinated by the CIA. Do you think you could get me a private tour? All the 'secret' places?"

what a sucker thinks President Trump.
posted by Glibpaxman at 2:05 PM on May 20, 2017 [27 favorites]

^ while the medal was being draped around his neck
posted by TWinbrook8 at 2:06 PM on May 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

Not that it's mattered yet, but I'll just leave this here...

No title of nobility shall be granted by the United States: and no person holding any office of profit or trust under them, shall, without the consent of the Congress, accept of any present, emolument, office, or title, of any kind whatever, from any king, prince, or foreign state.

posted by mikelieman at 2:08 PM on May 20, 2017 [50 favorites]

I have a feeling that Congress is going to be OK with Trump getting a golden friendship medal from King Salman.
posted by sour cream at 2:19 PM on May 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

NYT: Trump, Shouting ‘Death Spiral,’ Has Nudged Affordable Care Act Downward

Left unremarked on was a big reason for the instability: The Trump administration and Congress are rattling the markets.

The administration’s refusal to guarantee payment of subsidies to health insurance companies, the murky outlook for the Affordable Care Act in Congress and doubts about enforcement of the mandate for most people to have insurance are driving up insurance prices for 2018, insurers say in rate requests filed with state officials.

Opponents of President Barack Obama’s signature legislative achievement have made what may be a self-fulfilling prophecy: They repeatedly forecast the collapse of the health law, and then push it along.

Frustrated state officials have ideas for stabilizing the individual insurance market, but they say they cannot figure out where to make their case because they have been bounced from one agency to another in the Trump administration.

As the nation’s capital was rocked by revelation after revelation from the investigation into any connection between the Trump campaign and Russia, Democrats in Washington were focused on what they saw as nothing less than saving the republic.

More than 1,800 miles away, Rob Quist, a Democratic candidate in one of the House special elections that will gauge the mood of the country this spring, was concentrating on high insurance premiums, not high crimes.
...
“Russia is important to the American public, but health care hits home directly in people’s lives,” said Nancy Keenan, executive director of the Montana Democratic Party. “Regular Montanans are talking about the heck of a spring snowstorm we just had, this health care bill, the stuff that’s hitting them every single day. They know something is amiss in Washington, but in their everyday lives it doesn’t affect them right now.”

posted by zachlipton at 2:20 PM on May 20, 2017 [16 favorites]

Trump was awarded the gold medallion, known as the King Abdul Aziz Collar.

It will look good with the Robert Mueller Cuffs, inshallah.
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:26 PM on May 20, 2017 [61 favorites]

Not that it's mattered yet, but I'll just leave this here...
No title of nobility shall be granted by the United States: and no person holding any office of profit or trust under them, shall, without the consent of the Congress, accept of any present, emolument, office, or title, of any kind whatever, from any king, prince, or foreign state.

I have a feeling that Congress is going to be OK with Trump getting a golden friendship medal from King Salman.

It's not a title of nobility. It's perfectly acceptable. Barack Obama was awarded the very same award on his first visit in 2009. The key thing to watch is if Trump forwards the gold medal to the National Archives.
posted by Talez at 2:30 PM on May 20, 2017 [12 favorites]

He can dance, or sway, or whatever, with anyone he wants

He can dance if he wants to
He can leave his friends behind
'Cause his friends don't dance and if they don't dance
Well, they're no friends of mine

Say, he can go where he wants to
A place where they will never find
And we can act like we come from out of this world
Leave the real one far behind

And he can dance

posted by kirkaracha at 2:33 PM on May 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

if the plural of fulcrum is fulcra,
then the plural of tantrum is...tantra?
posted by j_curiouser at 2:37 PM on May 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

Trump's catering requirements for his Middle East visit. "This is basically Kevin McCallister's room service order from Home Alone 2"
posted by porn in the woods at 2:39 PM on May 20, 2017 [19 favorites]

I don't like seeing the American president make any move that looks like bowing to anyone. This is especially when receiving golden swag. That is gross. It makes it look like Trump was weak, bought, not aware of his posture, or his position. I am sure the Saudis were delighted with the appearance of obeisance. I also don't like giving the richest people on earth billions of dollars in military aid. That is some crazy thinking. I think there should be an arms embargo all over the middle east. Let it degenerate into a slug fest. Then maybe it will end quickly once it gets personal, ouch! One on one, instead of gassing kids.
posted by Oyéah at 2:41 PM on May 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

It's not a title of nobility. It's perfectly acceptable. Barack Obama was awarded the very same award on his first visit in 2009. The key thing to watch is if Trump forwards the gold medal to the National Archives.

It's really the 'accept any present, emolument...' part he's been tripping over since taking office. But thank you for that thing about tha National Archives being the recipient of gifts to the US, which IN THEORY the President accepts on behalf of our nation.

https://www.archives.gov/exhibits/tokens_and_treasures/gifts_of_state.html
posted by mikelieman at 2:41 PM on May 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

Trump's catering requirements for his Middle East visit. "This is basically Kevin McCallister's room service order from Home Alone 2"

They asked for bacon in Saudi Arabia? For real?
posted by PenDevil at 2:42 PM on May 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

That room service can't possibly be real, right? It's a parody?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:42 PM on May 20, 2017 [20 favorites]

It's a good parody though.
posted by zachlipton at 2:44 PM on May 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

I don't think it's real. It seems to be gleaned from a Twitter account claiming to be a rogue WH staff member. That twitter account also seems to think Louise Mensch is something other than an attention-seeker making shit up. So.
posted by Sequence at 2:45 PM on May 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

It's really the 'accept any present, emolument...' part he's been tripping over since taking office. But thank you for that thing about tha National Archives being the recipient of gifts to the US, which IN THEORY the President accepts on behalf of our nation.

Well I believe government officials can buy the gifts they receive for actual cash value from the USG if they are of sentimental value. Hillary Clinton famously paid $970 for a black pearl necklace given to her by Aung San Suu Kyi when she was Secretary of State. Whether this filters down to Trump is anyone's guess.
posted by Talez at 2:50 PM on May 20, 2017 [12 favorites]

The other reason gifts are filtered down to the National Archives is because those same gifts will be pulled out of storage and displayed during a reciprocal visit of the foreign leader that gave the gift.

I wouldn't believe that any member of Trump's staff would be able to do that competently without the professionals at the National Archives backstopping them.
posted by Talez at 2:52 PM on May 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

It's a good parody though.

I thought it was real until I got to the KFC napkins
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:54 PM on May 20, 2017 [7 favorites]

It's really the 'accept any present, emolument...' part he's been tripping over since taking office. But thank you for that thing about tha National Archives being the recipient of gifts to the US, which IN THEORY the President accepts on behalf of our nation.

Heh. From mikelieman 's link:

"Socks in the Oval Office"

I wouldn't believe that any member of Trump's staff would be able to do that competently without the professionals at the National Archives backstopping them.

I envision a foreign guest finding that Saudi medal Trump just got wedged between the headboard and the mattress in the Lincoln Bedroom.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:56 PM on May 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

State gifts to the sitting president are a thing, the Smithsonian is full of them. An emolument would be a private gift. I seem to recall some controversy over how some such gifts were accounted for when the Clintons left the White House.
posted by Andrhia at 2:56 PM on May 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

Has there been a close-up photo of this medal yet? Any Arabic writing? I'm betting it says something like:

2016 US Presidential Election
-----------------------
Participant
posted by rodeoclown at 3:04 PM on May 20, 2017 [62 favorites]

I guess it looks like KFILE is about to accuse Sheriff Clarke of plagiarism. So that's something to look forward to.
posted by zachlipton at 3:11 PM on May 20, 2017 [9 favorites]

I don't think Trump will worry one tiny bit about how he's supposed to process/pay for gifts. It's not like ANYTHING ELSE ON EARTH stops him from doing what the hell he wants at this point.
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:19 PM on May 20, 2017 [8 favorites]

That's a fun catering requirements parody - but what is "half chilled?" Is it a standard thing in the wine world or something?

I caught it at (DO NOT plug in microwave; we will do this) but the KFC napkins sealed the deal.

In the case of Clinton's black pearl necklace (and other pieces that were bought from National Archives), presumably she'd (and anyone else who's done the same) be asked to lend them for occasions?
posted by porpoise at 3:21 PM on May 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

I guess it looks like KFILE is about to accuse Sheriff Clarke of plagiarism. So that's something to look forward to.

So much worse then the time he caused a newborn to die in his jail.
posted by PenDevil at 3:25 PM on May 20, 2017 [22 favorites]

There is another entertaining possibility, though - that some canny leader will pick just the right moment and take the opportunity to publicly ask him a favour, extracting a Presidential promise of staggering ineptitude.

I think they're all thinking of ways to subtly make him look silly and weak, knowing that he's out of his league and not smart enough to catch on.
posted by bongo_x at 3:29 PM on May 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

Yogurt that makes you poop red, white, and blue?

I'm imagining it coming out like aquafresh.
posted by ryanrs at 3:42 PM on May 20, 2017 [11 favorites]

Because 45's in bed and all's quiet, I'll risk a tiny derail - what happened to Obama's Nobel medal? I know the money went to various charities, but did the golden gong go into the National Archives? Carter got his after he left office, so I suppose there's no question but that it was his to dispose of as he wished.
posted by Devonian at 3:44 PM on May 20, 2017

NYT: House Inquiry Turns Attention to Trump Campaign Worker With Russia Ties: Michael Caputo, who served as a communications adviser to the Trump campaign, has been asked by the House committee investigating Russian election meddling to submit to a voluntary interview and to provide any documents he may have that are related to the inquiry.

The panel’s letter asked Mr. Caputo to “produce documents and other materials to the committee and participate in a voluntary transcribed interview at the committee’s offices,” according to a copy obtained by The New York Times.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:48 PM on May 20, 2017 [19 favorites]

"I'm wondering if the leaks will dry up, now that everyone's on the plane."

If I were the leaker and in DC, I'd stop ANYWAY while they're in the air, just to fuck with Trump and make him trust his inner circle less. "The leaks stopped when we had no wifi on the plane! They started again as soon as we had wifi again! IT'S SOMEONE ON THE PLANE!"
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 3:55 PM on May 20, 2017 [75 favorites]

what happened to Obama's Nobel medal?

I would guess that it'll go to the future Obama Presidential Library on permanent loan from the National Archives.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 3:57 PM on May 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

Even better, engineer leaks which imply there are leakers both on and off the plane.
posted by Coventry at 4:04 PM on May 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

There is another entertaining possibility, though - that some canny leader will pick just the right moment and take the opportunity to publicly ask him a favour, extracting a Presidential promise of staggering ineptitude.

He doesn't even need to make promises. International diplomacy being what it is, the most innocuous acts can take on huge significance. For instance, on the Israel trip his minders have had to stress that he will not appear with Netanyahu at the Kotel (Western Wall), because the State Department considers it to be disputed territory. He will meet with Abbas in Bethlehem, not Ramallah, because Arafat's mausoleum is in Ramallah and they were reportedly planning to photograph him passing by it. Honestly, I think the only reason he's visiting the Kotel is that Obama did it (before he became President) and Trump has a thing about Obama. It's certainly not out of any spiritual feeling or desire to honour his hosts.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:08 PM on May 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

Even better, engineer leaks which imply there are leakers both on and off the plane.

Time for some BLAME THEORY.
posted by Artw at 4:12 PM on May 20, 2017 [10 favorites]

The leaks stopped when we had no wifi on the plane!

United Airlines has wifi; you don't think Air Force One does? But I like your thinking.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:15 PM on May 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

Johnny Wallflower: you don't think Air Force One does?

Per Rep. Ted Lieu, who has ridden on Air Force One with President Obama, there is no wifi on the plane, but there are internet connected computers. (I'm not sure if this means dedicated computers for use or just that they provide ethernet connections for passenger laptops?) I'm guessing this is for operational security to avoid leaking of location information if they're in a hostile situation, or to avoid leaking audio of top secret discussions.
posted by bluecore at 4:20 PM on May 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

So either earlier in this thread or in the old one, somebody mentioned how we liberals should be reclaiming patriotism. And then there was talk of Toby Keith's song "The Angry American". And I thought, well, yes, I am an angry American, why isn't that the song for me? So I went and listened to it about 20 times on youtube and then, I re-wrote the lyrics, just a little bit. I am all about re-appropriation so here are my slightly revised lyrics for "An Angry American" sung to the tune of Toby Keith's "The Angry American."

American Women and American Men
We’ll always stand up and salute
We’ll always recognize
When we see Old Glory Flying
There’s a lot of people dead
So we can sleep in peace at night
When we lay down our head

My grammy served in the army
Where she lost her right eye
But she flew a flag out in our yard
Until the day that she died
She wanted my daddy, his brothers, his sister and me
To grow up and live happy
In the land of the free.

Now this nation that I love
Has fallen under attack
A mighty sucker punch came flyin’ in
From Russia in the back
Soon as we can see clearly
Through our big black eye
Trumpo, we’ll light up your world
Like the 4th of July

Hey Uncle Bobby
Put your name at the top of his list
And the Statue of Liberty
Started shakin’ her fist
And the memos will fly
Drumpf, it’s gonna be hell
When you hear Mother Freedom
Start ringin’ her bell
And it’ll feel like the whole wide world is raining down on you
Brought to you Courtesy of the Red White and Blue

Subpoenas will be served
And the debate will rage
This big dog will fight
When you rattle his cage
And you’ll be sorry that you messed with
The U.S. of A.
`Cause we`ll put an impeachment to your ass
It`s the American way

Hey Uncle Bobby
Put your name at the top of his list
And the Statue of Liberty
Started shakin’ her fist
And the memos will fly
Trumfp, it’s gonna be hell
When you hear Mother Freedom
Start ringin’ her bell
And it feels like the whole wide world is raining down on you
Brought to you Courtesy of the Red White and Blue
posted by blessedlyndie at 4:28 PM on May 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

It pales in comparison to the whole killing people in his jail situation, but CNN: Sheriff David Clarke plagiarized portions of his master's thesis on homeland security.

He apparently adopted the rather odd practice of footnoting his sources, but not actually using quotation marks around quotations. Which is really rather a dumbass way of plagiarizing, I must say.
posted by zachlipton at 4:40 PM on May 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

If I could have one wish for the upcoming week, I'd wish for Mueller to request Trump's tax returns and that someone at the WH leak the news. Is that two wishes? Oh well.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 4:44 PM on May 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

It's kind of hard for me to see how anyone can get excited about the Sheriff Clarke plagiarism thing, given the other very serious allegations against him and the Trump administration generally.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:46 PM on May 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

Chrysostom: UT-03 special

-- The governor has set dates for the special to fill Chaffetz's seat. Filing deadline May 26, primaries Aug 15, general Nov 7. This all assumes the legislature does not go through with their threat of suing the governor.

Reminder: the Republican governor in Utah is going against the Republican majority legislature to call a special election -- I don't know enough about Utah to say if this is a sign of the national fracturing of the Republican party, or an issue between this particular governor and legislature.
posted by filthy light thief at 4:51 PM on May 20, 2017 [16 favorites]

I don't know enough about Utah to say if this is a sign of the national fracturing of the Republican party, or an issue between this particular governor and legislature.

The political parties in the state legislature wanted to hastily draw up a bill to have the primary process skipped, candidates picked by party delegates and a hasty general.

The governor basically put the kibosh on that so they're furious they can't install their own hand picked little lord to their fiefdom.
posted by Talez at 5:10 PM on May 20, 2017 [12 favorites]

So... Egg on their faces?
posted by Artw at 5:16 PM on May 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

Sure. Egg and, well, it is the Beehive State--
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:26 PM on May 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

Speaking of Egg, I saw this at the market and thought of you guys.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:39 PM on May 20, 2017 [12 favorites]

I saw this at the market

Heh, they even come in a choice of Classic Republican Red or Mustard Yellow Libertarian, for all your fleeing-the-sinking-ship needs
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:50 PM on May 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

and both with a side of nuts
posted by ryanrs at 5:57 PM on May 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

> plagiarism thing, given the other very serious allegations against him and the Trump administration generally

Just yet another point of evidence that these authoritarian dirtbags are intellectually incurious, lazy, and just generally lacking.

They're cheaters who cheapen the external worth of advanced degrees - and are often the most vocal that others acknowledge their degrees (qv Gorka).
posted by porpoise at 6:00 PM on May 20, 2017 [7 favorites]

Hey how 'bout an update on Richard "it's Pepe, he's become kind of a symb-urf" Spencer? He was confronted in his gym and as a result had his membership terminated. It's the little things in life.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:01 PM on May 20, 2017 [57 favorites]

Clarke is an evil monster not because he plagiarizes, but that he would do something as wacky as use text without quotation marks but footnote his plagiarism is sort of a narrative that pairs nicely with his fake medals/uniform thing. It's like this weird self-sabotaging aggrandizement.
posted by angrycat at 6:17 PM on May 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

"When I approached this flaccid, sorry excuse of a man and asked ‘Are you Richard Spencer,' this pendulous poltroon said 'No. I am not."

I would like to give this woman some money.
posted by middleclasstool at 6:19 PM on May 20, 2017 [35 favorites]

when you've reached such a level of infamy that you deny who you are in an effort to not lose your gym membership, u dun goofed
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:22 PM on May 20, 2017 [40 favorites]

oh my god, I will shake that woman's hand when I run into her which I bet I will someday. Punching nazis and running away is easy; tolerating the extraordinary social discomfort of speaking rudely and loudly to Nazis in public while courting disapproving looks from bystanders, that's hard. thank god she did. if they throw a parade for her I will march in it.
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:23 PM on May 20, 2017 [67 favorites]

I still can't believe no one has mentioned how awkward and painful the interactions between trump and the king looked. Trump took his standard " I'm pooping on a toilet " pose, the king looked PAINED to be there.
posted by kiwi-epitome at 6:32 PM on May 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

But they have so many things in common: their love of ostentation, respect for women, and electoral success being just a few.
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:34 PM on May 20, 2017 [7 favorites]

Apparently Clarke's thesis has been removed from the library already.

Agreed, it's not nearly as damning as the way he runs his jail or his other bullshit. But things like this help. If nothing else, it's a reminder that almost everyone who willingly comes into Twitler's orbit, especially at this point, is somehow broken or pathetic or just another bullshit artist like the guy at the center of the bullshit-vortex himself.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 6:39 PM on May 20, 2017 [17 favorites]

According to the NYT, Reince will be coming home early (tweet). Not that there's any reason for him to come back and deal with what's going on here.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:40 PM on May 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

Choice quote from Richard Spencer re his gym privileges:

"I'm really a model-gym goer. I don't bother anyone. I don't talk to anyone. I really just go and lift weights," Spencer said.
Spencer said he was at the gym "peacefully working out" when Fair came up to him and asked him if he was Richard Spencer. "I said no, because I wanted her to go away," he said. "I didn't want to get into a confrontation."
"I don't come to the gym to do politics. But she started screeching and yelling all this stuff," Spencer said, adding that the other patrons asked her to stop.

Wait wait hold up. You mean you just sometimes want to do something banal like go to the gym without people getting in your face? Oh my stars, you mean just like all the people of color, women, and non-christians in the entire rest of the country? You know, the ones you help make feel unwelcome on the entire planet earth so that you can get your jollies feeling superior over something you were born with and did nothing to earn? Get fucked nazi. Get fucking fucked. I hope this happens absolutely everywhere he goes for the rest of his shitty life.
posted by supercrayon at 6:54 PM on May 20, 2017 [161 favorites]

> Time for some BLAME THEORY.

Is The Big Blame Theory what the 2017 Writers are officially calling this PotUS Trump shitshow?
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 6:56 PM on May 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

Blackstone, (a company founded by one of President Trump's top supporters,) and Saudi Arabia's sovereign wealth fund announced plans Saturday to invest $40 billion in infrastructure projects, mostly in the U.S.

HOW ARE WE OKAY WITH PRIVATE PROFIT OFF OF INFRASTRUCTURE I JUST DO NOT GET IT THIS IS A THING WE NEED THIS IS WHAT TAXES ARE FOR HOW IS THIS EVEN A THING YOU CAN INVEST IN

...okay. I'm okay. I'm okay.
posted by Sequence at 6:58 PM on May 20, 2017 [45 favorites]

I remember when nazis used to be proud. They'd go up to black people and tell them to their face that "they better not be seen around here again".

Huh? That was only because they had a society-wide conspiracy against black people backing them up? Now that the vast majority of society isn't a bunch of racist fucks they are pissing their pants?

Well I'll be damned.
posted by Talez at 6:59 PM on May 20, 2017 [13 favorites]

HOW ARE WE OKAY WITH PRIVATE PROFIT OFF OF INFRASTRUCTURE I JUST DO NOT GET IT THIS IS A THING WE NEED THIS IS WHAT TAXES ARE FOR HOW IS THIS EVEN A THING YOU CAN INVEST IN

Welcome to your Libertarian future where all roads will be toll roads funded and maintained by private capital. This is a thing that a significant number of Republican voters (and more importantly donors) are just fine with because they don't believe in ideas like "public goods" or the concept of the commons. (And it fits with the concept of offloading functions we associate with governments on the local/state level to private enterprise to be run for profit; see private prisons, charter schools, etc.)
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 7:08 PM on May 20, 2017 [23 favorites]

Blackstone, (a company founded by one of President Trump's top supporters,) and Saudi Arabia's sovereign wealth fund announced plans Saturday to invest $40 billion in infrastructure projects, mostly in the U.S.

Blackstone pops up in interesting places:

Blackstone is owned by Trump friend Stephen Schwarzman (Trump has already flown him on Air Force One down to a birthday party thrown for him at Mar A Lago.)

Blackstone acquired Intertrust, a Dutch trust firm, in 2012.

Intertrust owns Walkers Management Services in the Cayman Islands.

QHG Cayman Limited is a mysterious shell company created at the end of 2016 which shares the same address as Walkers in the Cayman Islands.

During the privatization sale of 19.5% of Rosneft, the Russian state-owned gas company, a portion of Rosneft assets were transferred to this shell company.

The Steele Dossier alleged that a portion of the assets or brokerage fees for the privatization of 19% of Rosneft were offered as a reward to Trump aides getting the sanctions on Russia dropped should he win.
posted by bluecore at 7:10 PM on May 20, 2017 [65 favorites]

Get fucked nazi. Get fucking fucked. I hope this happens absolutely everywhere he goes for the rest of his shitty life.

Seconded, but with more punching.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 7:13 PM on May 20, 2017 [18 favorites]

I recall one of Trump's campaign promises was to use private companies to build American infrastructure.

These sort of deals will accelerate the longer he's in office, until nothing is owned by the federal, state, etc governments; only leased. Malheur was only the latest (high-profile) example of the rights of land overnship of the body politic being suppressed at the behest of private interests.
posted by Yowser at 7:14 PM on May 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

offered as a reward to Trump aides getting the sanctions on Russia dropped should he win.

Yeah, how's that working out?
posted by Devonian at 7:14 PM on May 20, 2017

Welcome to your Libertarian future where all roads will be toll roads funded and maintained by private capital.

See this is the thing, right. The companies are catching on to the populace getting poorer. They're catching on that people don't want to use toll roads. So what they're doing now is building the road and getting the government to pay the tolls of every car that uses it as part of a public-private partnership. But, and this is the key thing, if the number of cars doesn't show up like the private company planned, the private company gets a minimum payment no matter what! FOR THIRTY PLUS YEARS!

They're not going to directly charge you. They're going to bleed your states and counties dry. Those people have bigger pockets than peons (for now).
posted by Talez at 7:15 PM on May 20, 2017 [30 favorites]

Politico: Melania scours media to protect Trump

Like President Donald Trump, these people said, Melania Trump is an avid consumer of cable news, and often tracks the news of the day and will alert her husband to stories she thinks make him look bad.

She has raised concerns that some on his communications and press team aren’t doing enough to defend him, according aides and sources close to the president. She’s been especially troubled by background quotes in which West Wing aides criticize the president, and she’s called the president to discuss it.
...
“She was really concerned that Spicer was not doing a good job, that they were not proactive in defending the president,” said one outside adviser who speaks to the president regularly. ”The leaks bother her. She believes a lot of people are more interested in serving themselves than him.”
...
Like Donald Trump, perception is key to Melania Trump. She visibly nudged the president to put his hand on his heart during the national anthem at the White House Easter Egg roll in April.

Behind the scenes, she personally reviewed small details at the event, including the Easter bunny costumes worn by staff. One bunny was forced to shed the outfit attached to the costume after Melania Trump said she didn’t like it, one aide recalled.

So beyond the weird detail of Melania ordering an Easter bunny to disrobe, what's going on here? I mean, why are we reading this article; why does it exist? Why would Melania, or someone purporting to speak for her, choose this moment to essentially launch her cyberbullying campaign, except directed toward the White House staff. It's such an odd thing: "Melania is totally paying attention and is so concerned about these leaks, you guys, according to anonymous sources."
posted by zachlipton at 7:17 PM on May 20, 2017 [18 favorites]

Blackstone also just bought the benefits administration portion of Aon Hewitt, which manages health and welfare benefits for more companies than you'd think.
posted by Torosaurus at 7:18 PM on May 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

QHG Cayman Limited is a mysterious shell company created at the end of 2016 which shares the same address as Walkers in the Cayman Islands.

Yes, at a building called Cayman Corporate Centre. It's probably just a mail forwarding place for companies. When I started my company, we did something similar in Delaware, despite having our real office in California (with real employees, etc). If it's just a mail forwarding center, you can't infer links between other companies that also happen to be incorporated there.
posted by ryanrs at 7:19 PM on May 20, 2017 [9 favorites]

But they have so many things in common: their love of ostentation, respect for women, and electoral success being just a few.

Trump is just some asshole from Queens, NY, who spent his life trying to impress people from Manhattan. And that shit sure as hell *does not fly* with *real fucking royalty*.
posted by mikelieman at 7:22 PM on May 20, 2017 [7 favorites]

Lot of stuff trimmed...

During the privatization sale of 19.5% of Rosneft, the Russian state-owned gas company, a portion of Rosneft assets were transferred to this shell company.

The Steele Dossier alleged that a portion of the assets or brokerage fees for the privatization of 19% of Rosneft were offered as a reward to Trump aides getting the sanctions on Russia dropped should he win.

This is the kind of stuff that gives the financial investigators at the FBI and Treasury erections.
posted by mikelieman at 7:26 PM on May 20, 2017 [7 favorites]

Why would Melania, or someone purporting to speak for her, choose this moment

an excess of caution, lest someone take it into their heads to suppose that MELANIA is the puppet master behind all of his bad decisions, or at least to blame for not exuding a calming influence over him? pure foolishness, as even I who have fever dreams about a sister-against-sister battle for ultimate power find it impossible to entertain the idea for a second. but I think this is meant to communicate "look, I see how terrible everything is and I told him/them to do better, PR-wise anyway, but do they listen to me? They do not."

and/or "please husband don't have me killed, you don't take my calls so through the papers I offer you my humble promise that I think everyone is mean to you and you're doing great. really. it's spicer's fault for sure that they don't love you like I do."
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:27 PM on May 20, 2017 [10 favorites]

Comey's father: Trump was 'scared to death' of FBI director

The father of former FBI Director James Comey says his son was fired because President Donald Trump was "scared to death of him." [...]

Unlike the former FBI director, who so far has kept quiet about his firing, Comey's father had some very strong words about the FBI director's dismissal.

"Why he was fired, I think, is Trump changes every day," he said. "He had three reasons three days in a row."

The elder Comey did not hide his own distaste for the President saying,"Oh my God, I think he should be impeached immediately -- yesterday. He's a very incompetent guy. He's out of his league."

posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 7:28 PM on May 20, 2017 [29 favorites]

The Hill ACLU: Trump refused to turn over Giuliani travel ban memo by court-ordered deadline

The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) on Saturday blasted President Trump for ignoring a court order demand to release a memo drafted under former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani's guidance that outlined a plan to implement a travel ban without making it seem as if it was directly aimed at Muslims.

A federal judge in Detroit ordered the Trump administration to turn over the memo by May 19, according to reports. The ACLU said Saturday that Trump did not meet the deadline on Friday.
“If, as the administration claims, the Executive Order is not a Muslim Ban, then why is the administration refusing to turn over the Giuliani memo? What is in that document that the government doesn’t want the court to see?” Miriam Aukerman, Senior Staff Attorney at the ACLU of Michigan, said in a statement.

posted by murphy slaw at 7:28 PM on May 20, 2017 [43 favorites]

I think I know one of the main reasons Trump fired Comey at that specific time, and I'm certain it was a misunderstanding on Trump's part.

Let me explain. It's been reported that Trump was particularly furious at Comey for using words, (paraphrasing): "the idea that my action affected elections makes me mildly nauseaus". I'm sure Trump misread this as a direct insult to himself. Comey, whatever his private thoughts, in the public setting, meant that the idea that his action would affect election in either direction is nauseating because the bureau must be neutral. Trump would never understand this ideal of neutrality. It doesn't fit into his thought pattern.

I bet he saw it as a veiled or even direct insult: "Trump win makes me nauseaus".

He is virtually incapable of letting this slide from someone he is legally allowed to fire.

If this action turns out to have been the beginning of the end for him, it's highly likely that it was precipitated by his limited, antagonistic worldview.
posted by rainy at 7:30 PM on May 20, 2017 [38 favorites]

The father of former FBI Director James Comey says his son was fired because President Donald Trump was "scared to death of him

oh shit. I am sure that tall FBI man James Comey can exert message discipline over his own family if he chooses, so I must believe this is a direct message to Trump that reads: see, MY dad loves and approves of me. It's just as nice as you always fantasized it would be!
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:32 PM on May 20, 2017 [78 favorites]

"Yeah the giant Trump head may be startling."

I was telling my mother the other day, once the giant portraits are everywhere, we've gone full totalitarian - I hope he doesn't come back and find our buildings unadorned.
posted by Selena777 at 7:41 PM on May 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

I bet he saw it as a veiled or even direct insult: "Trump win makes me nauseaus".

There's a Talking Points Memo post on this, with some reporting to support it.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:02 PM on May 20, 2017

This is the final proof Trump is no billionaire: if he was, he'd have a huuuge golden statue like Niyazov did in Turkmenistan:

Niyazov statue.

You know he wants one. I know he wants one. Everyone knows he wants one.
posted by rainy at 8:03 PM on May 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

There also is no certainty yet that President Trump will be either impeached or choose to resign. But those possibilities, which 14 days ago were almost unimaginable to any informed and fair-minded observer, are now very real. Even if President Trump is able to remain in office through the end of next year, he will have been long abandoned by most serious conservatives in Congress, as the jeopardy of continued association with him becomes clear. Within a few months—and possibly in just weeks—most GOP elected officials will have acknowledged, at least privately, that Donald Trump is a suicide vest strapped around the body of the Republican Party. ~ Douglas A. Blackmon

holy shit.
posted by and they trembled before her fury at 8:08 PM on May 20, 2017 [84 favorites]

Donald Trump is a suicide vest strapped around the body of the Republican Party.

...which would be the Best Case Scenario that could result from the Worst Case Scenario we're living in...
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:14 PM on May 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

Alec Baldwin's 3-year-old also does Trump
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:26 PM on May 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

From the Richard Spencer article, what the heck is "peaceful ethnic cleansing"? I don't want to Google that.
posted by Soliloquy at 8:26 PM on May 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

And we cannot ever let the assholes distance themselves from him. Ever. They've had innumerable opportunities to disengage and do the right thing.

The coming horseshit from republicans will be the worst non-apology apology ever writ.
posted by maxwelton at 8:27 PM on May 20, 2017 [14 favorites]

From the Richard Spencer article, what the heck is "peaceful ethnic cleansing"? I don't want to Google that.

"Go back to [wherever your first approximation of your visible ethnicity is from]."
posted by Talez at 8:30 PM on May 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

It's like when your racist uncle says "I'm not racist I just think there should be a country for the whites, a country for the blacks, a country for the asians, a country for the jews. You know. Like heaven will be.".
posted by Talez at 8:31 PM on May 20, 2017 [13 favorites]

It means genocide with extra EXTRA euphemisms, because today's Nazis and their republican enablers believe they can get away with anything so long as it has a thin rhetorical cover that newsmedia and democrats are too cowardly to yank off.
posted by Artw at 8:32 PM on May 20, 2017 [14 favorites]

SNL is so important this season they got ScarJo to come back for a cameo as Ivanka.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:33 PM on May 20, 2017 [7 favorites]

That cold open was fantastic. And to bring this back to politics, why are people so stoked about The Rock going into politics? Republicans still gonna Republican.
posted by Ruki at 8:42 PM on May 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

Video: SNL Cold Open
posted by zachlipton at 8:46 PM on May 20, 2017 [12 favorites]

I don't want to think about Trump singing about sex, thankyouverymuch.
posted by Yowser at 8:49 PM on May 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

I was telling my mother the other day, once the giant portraits are everywhere, we've gone full totalitarian - I hope he doesn't come back and find our buildings unadorned.

I find the presidential photographs in every government office to be and indicator that America is a really ready for totalitarian government.
posted by srboisvert at 8:52 PM on May 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

That was funny but it reminded me of Kate McKinnon's version and that made me sad again.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:53 PM on May 20, 2017 [22 favorites]

why are people so stoked about The Rock going into politics? Republicans still gonna Republican.

See Also: Reagan, Schwarzenegger
posted by lkc at 8:55 PM on May 20, 2017 [9 favorites]

The Hill: Ex-FBI official withdraws name from consideration to replace Comey: report

Former FBI official Richard McFeely has reportedly withdrawn his name from consideration to replace James Comey as FBI director, according to a report by a Washington ABC affiliate.

so far cornyn, gowdy, mcfeely, and fisher have declined the honor of serving under sessions. almost like they suspect they would immediately step into a position where they were called upon to interfere in an ongoing investigation for a president whose popularity is historically terrible.
posted by murphy slaw at 9:09 PM on May 20, 2017 [51 favorites]

Weekend Update [because I'm apparently a huge nerd who transcribes quotes from a TV show into a website]:

"I know I said this last week, but this week was crazy"

"President-for-now Trump"

"Who are you going to believe: The head of the FBI or the guy who's definitely lying?"

Re Comey trying to blend in with the curtains: "But if he really wanted to avoid interacting with Trump, he should have just married him"

"You're a politician like Ja Rule is a festival organizer"

"The only people Trump ever interacts with are conspiracy theorists, Russian Gangsters, and Scott Baio. Comey is probably so normal that to Trump he seems sane...In the end I'm just happy that a nut job isn't something that happened to Turmp in a Russian hotel room."

An in memoriam reel for people Turmp has lost, including Spcier: "sssshhhh he doesn't know yet"

"A new poll showed Dwayne The Rock Johnson would beat Donald Trump in a race for President. A new poll showed The Rock would also beat Dwayne The Scissors Johnson."
posted by zachlipton at 9:29 PM on May 20, 2017 [31 favorites]

I also don't like giving the richest people on earth billions of dollars in military aid.

It's not aid. The Saudis are buying that stuff.

I don't think the US should be selling it but they are not giving it away free to them.
posted by srboisvert at 9:39 PM on May 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

NYT op-ed by Alison Gopnik, a child development expert: 4-Year-Olds Don’t Act Like Trump

The analogy is pervasive among his critics: Donald Trump is like a child. Making him the president was like making a 4-year-old the leader of the free world.

But the analogy is profoundly wrong, and it’s unfair to children. The scientific developmental research of the past 30 years shows that Mr. Trump is utterly unlike a 4-year-old.

Four-year-olds care deeply about the truth. They constantly try to seek out information and to figure out how the world works. Of course, 4-year-olds, as well as adults, occasionally lie. But Mr. Trump doesn’t just lie; he seems not even to care whether his statements are true.

Four-year-olds are insatiably curious. One study found that the average preschooler asks hundreds of questions per day. Just watch a toddler “getting into everything” — endangering his own safety to investigate interesting new objects like knives and toasters. Mr. Trump refuses to read and is bored by anything that doesn’t involve him personally.

posted by zachlipton at 9:47 PM on May 20, 2017 [69 favorites]

More muckraking from the WaPo, Washington’s portable toilet industry is flush, thanks to Trump

President Trump vowed on the campaign trail to boost economic growth and be the “greatest jobs producer that God ever created.”

His economic legacy is far from sealed, but it’s safe to say he has made at least one industry flush: the Washington region’s portable toilet industry.

The Trump presidency has brought an increased number of protests — and, yes, bladders and bowels — to the Mall. Protest organizers are renting record numbers of porta-potties in the Trump era for demonstrators to relieve themselves between chants and marches.

posted by peeedro at 9:52 PM on May 20, 2017 [26 favorites]

About 4,000 came out to see Bernie stump for Quist in Missoula.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:58 PM on May 20, 2017 [19 favorites]

Not sure how I feel about Blackmon's "I'm a serious thinker and serious people didn't think this was so real until two weeks ago" position. I get that a lot of partisan anger and rhetoric kept the fires going in the public sphere, but this was always serious. Much of this was very plainly out in the open. Connecting the dots to criminal conduct was only a matter of time. The warnings about Russia from serious people were there -- Harry Reid, Hillary Clinton, and others. Blackmon apparently doesn't want to consider them serious people.

But where I'm really doubtful is his forecast that this is a suicide vest for the Republican party. 45 could go down in absolute flames, dragging Pence and Sessions and plenty of others with him, and the party would still survive.

Even with full-on treason and espionage and felonies in full display, people will not give up on the Republican party. It's their haven for racism, be it outright or just comfortably unexamined. It's their haven for denial of big scary things like climate change and the failures of capitalism. They'll shun 45 as a traitor (while a great many of them won't), then they'll stuff their heads up their asses in full denial once more and find some twisted rationale for blaming this all on liberals and Hillary. And then they'll vote for tax cuts and white privilege all over again.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:18 PM on May 20, 2017 [49 favorites]

Kellyanne crossing her fingers on "I've told the truth, I didn't come to fool you" is great, even if it plays into the idea that she's somehow different or better than the rest of them.

....How do you see that? "Crossing your fingers when you say something" is sort of a trope signifier for "what I am speaking right now is a lie," so showing Kellyanne Conway crossing her fingers while saying "I didn't come to fool you" is downright accusing her of deliberately misleading people.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:25 PM on May 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

The warnings about Russia from serious people were there -- Harry Reid, Hillary Clinton, and others. Blackmon apparently doesn't want to consider them serious people.

Yes, it seems that only talking to Yates for several hours managed to penetrate his barriers. But why does he think Pence is an innocent dupe?
posted by harriet vane at 10:33 PM on May 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

I missed this on first viewing, but my very observant partner just pointed out something about tonight's cold open and how it looped back to McKinnon's earlier version:

At the end of McKinnon's Hallelujah, "Hillary" says, "I'm not gonna give up and neither should you" and at the end of the "Trump" song, he says, "I'm not gonna give up, cause I didn't do anything wrong."

They came full circle... beautifully... on purpose.
posted by honestcoyote at 10:37 PM on May 20, 2017 [16 favorites]

Exactly. She has always maintained, in her public persona and even in parodies of her, a bit of a wink-wink-nudge-nudge toward a "I don't really believe this garbage; I'm just in it for the money" thing, that her support has been merely mercenary in nature. For example, the recent statements (publicly denied by Conway) that she would go on Morning Joe and then tell the hosts she felt "dirty" and "needed a shower" defending this stuff. She doesn't get to be any less complicit than the rest of them. She's been at this so long she was faxing stories to Matt Drudge to try to take down Bill Clinton; she doesn't get to act like she's different.

Maybe it's a trivial distinction; maybe it's even worse if she doesn't believe in what she's doing. But the idea that she knows she's lying and the rest of the gang are the true believers lets her off the hook too much.
posted by zachlipton at 10:40 PM on May 20, 2017 [7 favorites]

Yes, it seems that only talking to Yates for several hours managed to penetrate his barriers. But why does he think Pence is an innocent dupe?

Probably the same reason he was so doubtful that anything impeachable was in the wind. He has a healthy amount of skepticism, but it's also combined with a big hunk of "It can't really be that bad," which is what carried the denial so far in the first place for so many people besides just Blackmon.

It's the "It can't happen here" mindset, which even otherwise seemingly intelligent people can fall prey to. Even now, a lot of people are gonna have a hard time getting over the notion of, "Wait, you mean Mike Pence is dirty, too? No way!"
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:42 PM on May 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

Yeah on the Blackmon piece: The warnings from serious people about the Trump campaign and Russia, the changing of the platform at the convention to favor Russia's interests vis-à-vis Ukraine, the sheer number of Trump campaign people with weirdly long and deep Russia connections, and the way those people lied over and over again about those connections added up to plenty of evidence suggesting that what was publicly known might not be the whole story. This idea that until two weeks ago there was no serious basis to suspect that Russia might have penetrated the White House is silly. There may not have been public proof but there was certainly reason for suspicion.
posted by Lyme Drop at 10:51 PM on May 20, 2017 [29 favorites]

ryanrs: Yes, at a building called Cayman Corporate Centre. It's probably just a mail forwarding place for companies. When I started my company, we did something similar in Delaware, despite having our real office in California (with real employees, etc). If it's just a mail forwarding center, you can't infer links between other companies that also happen to be incorporated there.

If this site is accurate, QHG Cayman's mailing address specifically starts with Walkers Fiduciary Limited, so it was formed by/is administered by the Walkers firm.

Could still be a coincidence. A certain amount of this stuff is the ultrarich all being friends with each other and swimming in the same small circles.
posted by bluecore at 11:07 PM on May 20, 2017

Kellyanne crossing her fingers on "I've told the truth, I didn't come to fool you" is great, even if it plays into the idea that she's somehow different or better than the rest of them.

....How do you see that? "Crossing your fingers when you say something" is sort of a trope signifier for "what I am speaking right now is a lie," so showing Kellyanne Conway crossing her fingers while saying "I didn't come to fool you" is downright accusing her of deliberately misleading people.

Ah! I didn't "read" it this way, but crossing your fingers (usually accompanied by looking upwards) can mean "I hope" or "I need good luck." Maybe zachlipton read it that way?

The lie version of crossing your fingers is usually behind your back. If shown to the front, eyes typically go to the side or upper side and it's accompanied by an "innocent" face.

I don't recall which she did, and I don't like the song enough to watch it again. (Don't like is an understatement. Yeesh, that song.)

(Obvs I find this body linguistics stuff fascinating, though. Sorry for the slight derail.)
posted by greermahoney at 11:59 PM on May 20, 2017

Crossing your fingers when saying "I'm telling the truth" indicates to the viewer that you are lying.
posted by tzikeh at 1:43 AM on May 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

Yes, it seems that only talking to Yates for several hours managed to penetrate his barriers. But why does he think Pence is an innocent dupe?

Until the evidence that Pence is also a Russian asset is clear, you go with the scenario you can prove.

And being able to prove that Flynn, a Russian Intelligence Asset, fed Russian disinformation to the highest levels of our Government, which the VP then went on TV and broadcast is one hell of an indictment on its own.
posted by mikelieman at 2:17 AM on May 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

Get fucked nazi. Get fucking fucked. I hope this happens absolutely everywhere he goes for the rest of his shitty life.

Seconded, but with more punching.

Spencer has previously tweeted Tomorrow Belongs to Me at Jewish people. I can only assume he identifies with 1930s fascism and Nazism. He clearly desires a test of virility that determines who the ubermensch can truly be said to be. His tendency to run away from punchers rather than getting in a 1930s Nazi fight is amusingly ironic by the tests of his own proclaimed value system.

"Fascism rejects assertions that violence is automatically negative in nature and views political violence, war, and imperialism as means that can achieve national rejuvenation."

Punch away, apparently.
posted by jaduncan at 2:19 AM on May 21, 2017 [19 favorites]

But Pence was told about Flynn's Ukraine ties during the transition and lied about it. I guess that's not the same thing, but it shows he's complicit in something.
posted by harriet vane at 2:39 AM on May 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

But Pence was told about Flynn's Ukraine ties during the transition and lied about it.

That's the thing. I believe Sally Yates' concern at the time was telling the White House what the FBI/DOJ just learned, that since Flynn was a Russian spy and feeding Pence disinformation, Pence was potentially compromised, and she didn't dig down enough to establish -- as part of her investigation -- IF Pence was also a Russian spy.

I believe that Muller's mandate includes "any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump;", and since Pence was undeniably associated with the campaign, he should be able to move Pence from the MAYBE Russian Spy to PROVEN Russian Spy.
posted by mikelieman at 2:52 AM on May 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

Flynn's Ukraine ties

It's Manafort who had sketchy ties to Ukraine. (And Michael Cohen does too) Specifically to Putin allies in Ukraine.

Flynn's sketchy ties are to Russia (RT) and Turkey (lobbying for them during the campaign.)

Trump's ties are to Russia (many and numerous) and Kazakhstan (via Tevfik Arif) and Azerbaijan (where he built a very strange hotel.)

The world these guys move in...
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:53 AM on May 21, 2017 [9 favorites]

Unless Pence claims that he's the victim of a conspiracy to keep him in the dark – which would mean a lot more people ate now implicated and to a greater degree – it's just not plausible that someone with a normal amount of involvement with his office could have remained ignorant of the allegations regarding Flynn.

Pence kind of wants people to buy something along the lines of the following conversation:

Goon 1: Should we tell the boss that the potential NSA might be a Russian asset?
Goon 2: No, it's not really germane.
Goon 1: Yeah, you're right. Let's respond to this letter but not mention it to anyone on the team responsible for vetting candidates.

I'm just going to guess that people aren't going to buy it.
posted by jaduncan at 2:54 AM on May 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

The world these guys move in...

Muller's going to need a bigger wall and a lot more string and thumbtacks for the connections in his mugshot collage
posted by mikelieman at 2:55 AM on May 21, 2017 [9 favorites]

Thinking about Muller's investigation of the campaign, I googled around and found This List of people in the general election campaign.

OVERVIEW: This page shows organization of the Trump campaign for the general election gleaned from campaign releases and news accounts.

There may be inaccuracies, but it seems like a reasonable starting place for anyone to dig in.

Oh, and Ivanka and Jared are on that list, and golly-gee, guess who's listed first for the DIGITAL AND DATA group. That's right, Jared.

So, what's the over/under on Muller flipping Jared?
posted by mikelieman at 3:13 AM on May 21, 2017

Gambling pedant note: You can't really have an over/under on a binary choice, because an over/under implies more than two possible outcomes (eg: over/under 2.5 goals in a soccer match). You probably just want to ask the odds for your wager.

Oh, Jared IS going to flip. He's got a genetic aversion to Federal Prisons. ( Real reason Christie isn't in the White House is Christie sent Jared's father to Federal Prison ).

It really is only a matter of "when", and over/under in terms of calendar date, or "before/after overseas trip ends"... But given that "before overseas trip ends" and after can be two different wagers with varying odds.

Hmmm... I believe you have a point.
posted by mikelieman at 3:33 AM on May 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

Oh, I see the way you meant it. My apologies. Yeah, dates could totally be an over/under.
posted by jaduncan at 3:37 AM on May 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

The disparity between what is being discussed as news here on 'the left' and what is floating around on the of the right is remarkable and tends to lead one towards skepticism for either message.

It's fucked up, really. On FB I read an amazing article that claimed some guy had banked royalties for the naming of 'Obamacare/the ACA'. Royalties for naming a law. I'll confess I haven't actually researched if that is a thing I just dismissed it on its face because, uh it strikes me as patenetly ridiculous. This niggling fact aside the article went on to suppose that Pres Obama was the actual owner of this account. Look, this article was so transparently blatantly ridiculous... but it used language and constructions of trad. journalism not unlike what the Onion does. Except this wasn't done for humorous effect. It was just crazy/ advancing a narrative that has nothing to do with reality.

Recently I avoided a discussion about climate change because, well because there is no question (almost exclusively outside of this one group of Americans). The net effect of global warming isn't clear, but anthropogenic climate change is simply a fact, like pollution is simply a fact: humans did x, the result has been y. So a discussion about climate change is really a discussion about which 'reality' you are going to 'believe' -and that's depressing as hell. That a bunch of assholes have studiously subverted the common good.

Did Jared collude? I don't know. But I hope to hell shit gets set right again. The instability introduced by the alternate facts branch of things is doing no one any good. I just wish this no good would come to that one side sooner rather than later.
posted by From Bklyn at 3:52 AM on May 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

This story warms my cold heart. Low-level Trump staffers face $1,500 an hour legal fees in Russia probe. Those leopards are starting to attack the inner circle.
posted by Yowser at 3:55 AM on May 21, 2017 [41 favorites]

Former Trump adviser asked to testify to House committee on Russia
Michael Caputo, who worked for the president during the primary campaign, invited for voluntary interview
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:24 AM on May 21, 2017

Disappointed in the SNL cold opening, actually. It was just a repeat of the same joke.
posted by Melismata at 4:27 AM on May 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

(Though Baldwin taking his hands off the piano was funny, heh.)
posted by Melismata at 4:29 AM on May 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

Fair enough, spitbull. I'm totally fine with being cautious. I think Blackmon takes it too far but on the other hand I'd be happy to send his post to people who are skeptical of there being anything wrong at all. I just think he does a better job of explaining his caution with other people in the orbit of Trump than he does with Pence.
posted by harriet vane at 4:55 AM on May 21, 2017

Mayor of the small town of Monessen, PA lost his seat last week to a 26 year old after having hosted Trump last year.
posted by octothorpe at 5:10 AM on May 21, 2017 [58 favorites]

I'd argue, with respect to the seemingly overstated nature of Blackmon's "everything has changed!" take, that it's not about the Russian connections as such: for better or worse, we don't actually know more about the Trump campaign's direct connections to Russia than we did a week ago. What has come particularly to light is the extent of and the timeline for the obstruction of justice, which, remember, can often be as toxic or more so than the underlying crime. What we've learned recently is that the campaign knew about Flynn being compromised way, way, before they acted on that knowledge, that they made active attempts to slow or mitigate the investigation into Flynn, and that they've been directly interfering to derail the larger Russia investigation. These are Big Deals, and they do change the shape of the investigation from "highly suspicious but inconclusive evidence of collusion with Russia" to "damn near ironclad case for obstruction of justice into the Russia investigation". So it's not just that there's new evidence. It's that the particular case being made by the evidence is now for a completely different crime.
posted by jackbishop at 5:16 AM on May 21, 2017 [21 favorites]

Even with full-on treason and espionage and felonies in full display, people will not give up on the Republican party.

I was traveling the last couple of days and Friday morning I was forced to sit somewhere with TVs hanging and impossible to ignore. This is not the message that is being received by anyone who relies on Fox News. During the time I watched Ted Nugent and his wife were visiting Fox and Friends and talked about how wonderful the president is. Ted stated that he listened to people who were "in America's asset column" when he wanted to find out what was going on and the hosts nodded sagely. Then cut to reporters all over the country 'talking to people like you' on Support Our President Day. The opinions from the man on the street interviews were infuriating as they were parroting unsubstantiated lies but again the Fox hosts don't need to say those things themselves, they just nod sagely and look thoughtful.

This is the typical way talk radio works, give opinions that suit your agenda a voice with absolutely no push back to any blatant lies or misunderstandings and let that stand as offering information to the masses. That's democracy, right?

If anyone is a traitor it is Roger Ailes and the Murdochs for creating a soothing, pretty misinformation bubble. This has been pure indoctrination. Too many people have been told repeatedly that to rely on the New York Times or Washington Post is to listen to lies from people who want to give your country away. Rupert was only about the revenue this generated, he may be conservative but he's no fool. Here's hoping that James and Lachlan Murdoch can steer their flagship network in to at least the waters of fact based conservative values.

People have been duped and that is the worst feeling in the world to feel a fool. So they won't, they'll dig in. And Trump will too. Until Fox tells their loyalists otherwise.
posted by readery at 5:40 AM on May 21, 2017 [28 favorites]

"On FB I read an amazing article that claimed some guy had banked royalties for the naming of 'Obamacare/the ACA'. Royalties for naming a law. I'll confess I haven't actually researched if that is a thing I just dismissed it on its face because, uh it strikes me as patenetly ridiculous."

I see what you did there.
posted by iamkimiam at 6:06 AM on May 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

NYT: In Speech, Trump to Declare Terrorism a ‘Battle Between Good and Evil'

He'll be pivoting to softer, less inflammatory language, more in line with what President Obama and other US leaders have used in the past.
posted by zarq at 6:11 AM on May 21, 2017

Has Spencer showed up in the news in any context other than him being humiliated and losing badly (being punched in the face, losing his gym membership) or else looking like a clown, prancing around with his silly haircut and pretending he's the great Nazi bête noire and/or the Hipster Hitler?

I'm beginning to suspect that his sole purpose is to be some kind of decoy. That someone found an easily-led simpleton somewhere, coached him on Nazi ideology, told him that he's the new Führer, the ark of the sacred destiny of the Aryan Master-Race or whatever, gave him a trendy haircut and a Pepe The Frog pin for good measure, and shoved him out into the world to strut around until someone, understandably, punched him and then make a lot of noise. And that while the liberals and leftists and antifa were all paying attention to this poltroon and his ridiculous honking, the real villains are somewhere else, wasting no time.
posted by acb at 6:15 AM on May 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

[The President of Egypt] was effusive in his praise of the American president: “You are a unique personality that is capable of doing the impossible.”

“I agree!” Mr. Trump responded cheerily, as laughter rolled through the room.

A few moments later, Mr. Trump returned the compliment, in a fashion. “Love your shoes,” he told Mr. Sisi. “Boy, those shoes.”

Ladies and Gentlemen, the leader of the free world.
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:24 AM on May 21, 2017 [61 favorites]

Well, one time Spencer was punched he was getting interviewed by ABC as the face of a new more right wing American politics. There were also all those dapper nazi articles. So no, not a decoy per se.
posted by Artw at 6:26 AM on May 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

'Angry' Netanyahu orders ministers to attend Trump reception
posted by Artw at 6:34 AM on May 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

Sometimes people hold odious viewpoints because they believe them, not because a shadowy James Bond villain is pulling the strings.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:35 AM on May 21, 2017 [12 favorites]

If we define it as "these guys let the Russians into the Oval Office [by whatever means] and the NSC and then failed to act on warnings and obstructed investigation" there is virtually no denying the criminality of their actions.

Agreed. "The WH is compromised by Russia, so act and speak accordingly" is a powerful frame.
posted by MonkeyToes at 6:41 AM on May 21, 2017 [11 favorites]

Need stickers: ASSUME THIS PHONY IS TAPPED
posted by Devonian at 6:54 AM on May 21, 2017 [8 favorites]

Ah I get you now :) I don't read tjose places so I didn't realise there was backlash elsewhere. We're totally in agreement then :)
posted by harriet vane at 6:55 AM on May 21, 2017

Maybe it's time to apply former VP Dick Cheney's one percent doctrine: If there's “a one percent chance” that the Trump administration has been politically, financially, or personally compromised by the Russian government, “we have to treat it as a certainty in terms of our response.”
posted by MonkeyToes at 6:56 AM on May 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

Wow is there a press blackout or are we seeing an unidentified "press holiday" now that Il Toupeé is on tour? I mean, I made it to the end of the thread! C'mon Tehhund! You can do it!

Okay so just to get this out there - the Russian photographer - unless he was using a giant format glass-plate kind of camera, his camera IS a recorder. Movies, audio only, whatever. And a small bit of electrical tape/sharpie or some low-level screwdriver work would get rid of any ominous blinking red lights.

Point being, this "oh we can't reveal what he revealed wrongly, that would be wrong" is double secret bullshit. TASS has it.
posted by petebest at 6:57 AM on May 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

Stephen Miller speech.

I'm sure the Saudis will help them massage their speech to a shine, but Trump can't stay on script and he's been saying Stephen Miller's thoughts for a couple of years now.

This'll be good.

I hope he brings out a Mohammed sockpuppet and does a show.
posted by Yowser at 7:05 AM on May 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

But has anyone confirmed that the TASS photographer was actually in the room for the whole meeting? Typically the press would only be there for the grip-n-grin portion, not for any substantive discussions.
posted by stopgap at 7:07 AM on May 21, 2017

But has anyone confirmed that the TASS photographer was actually in the room for the whole meeting?

Not according to the Washington Post:

There was no photo availability for Lavrov pulling up at the White House driveway, as is typical for arriving foreign dignitaries. The meeting was considered “closed press,” meaning that the White House press pool was not allowed to enter the Oval Office for what is known as a photo spray, which usually lasts for a minute or two.

Instead, the U.S. and Russian officials who negotiated the visit agreed in advance that the meeting would be documented only by one official photographer from each delegation. A few hours before the meeting, according to a White House official, some of Trump’s aides wondered why they could not bring in the press corps and were told it had been “predetermined” that there would be no access.

The two photographers took pictures at the start of the meeting and then left the room. White House aides said they were under the impression that the Russian photographer in attendance was on Lavrov’s staff, and were angry when they later saw the photos published online by Tass, the state-owned Russian news agency.

posted by peeedro at 7:10 AM on May 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

the whole meeting?

Point of order, do we know when Trump blurted out the classified intelligence? More likely to be right at the top wouldn't it?

"K-lak! You're a tremendous asset! Speaking of, look how much intel they gave me . . ."
posted by petebest at 7:12 AM on May 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

Sometimes people hold odious viewpoints because they believe them, not because a shadowy James Bond villain is pulling the strings.

I agree. I think that Richard Spencer is exactly who he presents himself as - a dumb and, as it turns out, punchable Nazi who believes in the whole ideology. I think we do ourselves a disservice by looking for shadowy conspiracies (the Russian collusion is not at all shadowy, it is pretty damn obvious), hidden villains, and multi-dimensional chess. That weakens our position and makes us chase our own tails.

Let's just say that the malevolent, the stupid, and the greedy have managed to take power. They are exactly who they appear to be - shallow, cruel, unpatriotic greed-heads who want to drain America dry and leave with the proceeds. We can stop them - but I feel that "believe what they say" and "they are who they appear to be" is a more productive path than looking for (so to speak) the Voldemort behind them all.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 7:14 AM on May 21, 2017 [21 favorites]

Need stickers: ASSUME THIS PHONY IS TAPPED

See, I just want to go into all the White House staff bathrooms and put stickers on the mirrors that say "Scooter Libby."
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 7:20 AM on May 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

Note to staff: Please stop placing the phone stickers on the microwave and other domestic appliances.
posted by Artw at 7:22 AM on May 21, 2017 [6 favorites]

At least Trump is wearing his translator earpiece thingy.
posted by Sweetdefenestration at 7:22 AM on May 21, 2017

At least Trump is wearing his translator earpiece thingy.

My guess is that he's listening to music or self-affirmations, like Jack Handy.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:29 AM on May 21, 2017 [6 favorites]

Well, one time Spencer was punched he was getting interviewed by ABC as the face of a new more right wing American politics. There were also all those dapper nazi articles. So no, not a decoy per se.

Correct: Richard Spencer was close to real political power a few months ago. He was getting a lot press, and the media was completely feckless and failing to present him as what he was in the name of false equivalency: the same shit that brought us Trump, only Spencer is smarter and young. Unchallenged, he would have had an excellent opportunity to ride the coattails of Trump, to promote himself his think tank and publications. If we hadn't clowned him and if this presidency had been better and more proactive at authoritarian tactics early on, Spencer would be running for office by now. He's only a joke now because together, we made him one.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:32 AM on May 21, 2017 [81 favorites]

Trump sounds very low energy.
posted by Pendragon at 7:34 AM on May 21, 2017 [6 favorites]

as much fun as Nazi-punching is to do and to talk about, and as enthusiastically as I like to talk about it, I cannot stress enough how much braver and riskier it was for this woman to do what she did than for that masked man to do what he did, even if the latter got a snappier video out of it. she risked making a fool out of herself and did it all under her own name, and she's a public figure on a small enough scale that it doesn't protect her, only makes her easy to find. nobody better sneer at tumblr SJWs or ivory-tower academics again unless they can prove they got TWO Nazis kicked out of their social clubs. I mean for a man who for sure is a believer in the concept of 'emasculation,' how much more brutal it must have been for our Dick to have been deprived of the space where he even lifts, than to have been inadvertently engaged in what one might very charitably pretend was a fistfight.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:37 AM on May 21, 2017 [80 favorites]

pretending he's the great Nazi bête noire and/or the Hipster Hitler?

Hipstler.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:40 AM on May 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

Missed in all this is that BuzzFeed published her story (which hadn't gone viral) without her permission, which means that Richard Spencer tipped off the reporter to the story.

So damn brave indeed. And fuck BuzzFeed (again)
posted by Yowser at 7:49 AM on May 21, 2017 [6 favorites]

Trump is doing a decent job reading off the teleprompter. That's all I've got.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:51 AM on May 21, 2017

So he actually can read, after all.
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 7:53 AM on May 21, 2017

Trump is doing a decent job reading off the teleprompter. That's all I've got.
I call benzos.
posted by Sweetdefenestration at 7:54 AM on May 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

Maggie Haberman says this was the fifth draft of the speech.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:54 AM on May 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

He's pulling an Elvis. Amphetamines for the last 48 hours, now he's on industrial strength Xanax. Lowest energy.
posted by Yowser at 7:56 AM on May 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

"Ethnicitity." Oops.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:57 AM on May 21, 2017 [6 favorites]

Did he just call out "the online spread of hate"

Oh he's such a trolling fuck.
posted by Yowser at 7:57 AM on May 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

Holy shit, he said ethnicity. And literally Conflating Arabs and Muslim means that Stephen Miller is still driving the Trump train.
posted by Yowser at 7:58 AM on May 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

I GOT TUE THREADB TO LOAD

Those typos are thread delay typos

Anyway if anyone needs to laugh maniacally I highly recommend this linked up thread
posted by schadenfrau at 7:59 AM on May 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

Only lines of this speech I've had a problem with so far are the part about how we will no longer be constrained by "inflexible ideology" meaning insistence on human rights, and the weird part when he got into talking about the ultimate condemnation off terrorist' souls. And that was some pretty harsh rhetoric about Iran.

But mostly this seems like a speech Obama could've given, so far. Which Trump's remaining supporters will hate, I would think?
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:02 AM on May 21, 2017

He's off script, yay!
posted by Yowser at 8:02 AM on May 21, 2017

False alarm, he's back on script.
posted by Yowser at 8:03 AM on May 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

Time before Van Jones says "This is the day he became President 2: The Presidenting"?
posted by Yowser at 8:04 AM on May 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

Trump sounds very low energy

After all that sword dancing in Riyadh, there's the whirlwind visit to Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories, thence on to Rome and Pope Francis. Trump is going to be totally knackered by the time he gets to Brussels on 25 May for the Nato meeting, and even more knackered on arrival in Sicily on the 26th for the G-7 meeting.
posted by Mister Bijou at 8:09 AM on May 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

CNN panelist pointing out that Trump's speech was basically nonsense when it comes to an actual understanding of geopolitics.

I don't know geopolitics that well either, but then again I'm not the fucking president with an army of speech writers.
posted by Yowser at 8:09 AM on May 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

I also think it's significant that hee didn't mention Yemen. In the context of hundreds of billions of dollars in arms sales to Saudi Arabia, that's a significant omission.

If Trump Doubles Down on the Saudi War in Yemen, Millions Could Starve
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:11 AM on May 21, 2017 [10 favorites]

IIRC it's less an army of scriptwriters and more one dumb nazi. This is probably an amazing achievement for Miller in terms of merely being nonsense and not immediately provoking a war.
posted by Artw at 8:14 AM on May 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

Jason Miller (who was supposed to have Spicer's job) says it was "amazing" and showed "real leadership.". You know, to read a speech you didn't write, probably don't agree with, and have little understanding of the issues within.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:15 AM on May 21, 2017 [10 favorites]

My impoverished understanding is that this arms deal is a very important shift. Gone is any chance of a rapprochement with Iran. Nefarious Saudi warmongering in Yemen gets a green light. The many associated business deals (infrastructure, rah rah) means lots of the boys get to clean up. And the result is a very significant change in the delicate balance across the whole Middle East, not because there was an opportunity to make things better, but because there was money to be made.
posted by stonepharisee at 8:19 AM on May 21, 2017 [16 favorites]

CNN correspondent saying every Muslim leader there is Sunni, and by meeting with them and singling out Iran, he is siding with Sunnis over Shiites. I hadn't picked up on that.

And that it's pretty ironic that he's taking such a hard line against Iran after they voted yesterday for moderation and international engagement, and particpated in the democratic process in such large numbers.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:22 AM on May 21, 2017 [59 favorites]

Whoa-daddy-stand-back, McCain's bringing out the big guns. Maybe next time he can actually be speechless so we don't have to fucking hear from him at all.

McCain 'almost speechless' over Trump's 'nutjob' jab
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:25 AM on May 21, 2017 [38 favorites]

maybe the new administration in iran will let him build trump tower tehran and suddenly we'll be copacetic with them.
posted by murphy slaw at 8:32 AM on May 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

One irony of Trump's speech is that ISIS is the middle eastern equivalent of MAGA. He's telling them to fight the nativist, closed-world, puritanical forces in their own midst, while simultaneously increasing our engagement in their various wars. Pure imperial hubris. I can only guess this speech is more for us in the US to think: "Oh how nice. We're not the baddies. They need to sort out our own problems," while forgetting that if it wasn't for our interference in the first place, there'd be no Al Qaeda or ISIS.
posted by lumnar at 8:35 AM on May 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

It would be nice if McCain was fully speechless. It might give him an opportunity to be more than just empty talk.
posted by codacorolla at 8:36 AM on May 21, 2017 [16 favorites]

Never in my life have I wanted so many bad things to happen to so many bad people.

‘Hell is coming with me’: Roger Ailes’ son threatens to ‘come after’ women who accused father of harassment

During a eulogy for his father, the teen-aged son of ex-Fox News head Roger Ailes issued a threat to the women he feels caused his father to get booted from the conservative news network

According to New York Magazine editor Gabriel Sherman — whose reporting contributed to Ailes’s demise — Zachary Ailes told the mourners at the Palm Beach funeral, “I’m coming after them…and hell is coming with me.”

posted by Room 641-A at 8:40 AM on May 21, 2017 [32 favorites]

[The President of Egypt] was effusive in his praise of the American president: “You are a unique personality that is capable of doing the impossible.”

Masterful and well-crafted. Of course Trump will take that as a compliment, though it may not be meant as such.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 8:42 AM on May 21, 2017 [19 favorites]

Well, that takes care of "don't speak ill of the dead out of respect for the family."

Fuck Ailes and his family. Glad he's dead and hope he suffered.
posted by chris24 at 8:45 AM on May 21, 2017 [49 favorites]

Racist Taunts by a Russian ‘Nazi’ Inspire a Lynch Mob and a Murder in Cancun.

Far-right radicalisation at extreme WTF levels.
posted by Buntix at 8:53 AM on May 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

During a eulogy for his father, the teen-aged son of ex-Fox News head Roger Ailes issued a threat to the women he feels caused his father to get booted from the conservative news network

Go back to /r/trp you insignificant little pissant.
posted by Talez at 8:58 AM on May 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

Newt Gingrich on Fox and Friends this morning, normalizing the Seth Rich conspiracy theory. Get fucked, Newt. Whatever comes to you won't be enough.

"We have this very strange story now, this young man who worked for the DNC, who apparently was assassinated at 4 in the morning, having given Wikileaks something like 23,000, I'm sorry 53,000 emails, and 17,000 attachments, nobody's investigating that, and what does that tell you about what was going on, because it turns out it wasn't the Russians, it was this young guy who I suspect was disgusted by the corruption of the DNC, he's been killed and apparently nothing serious has been done to investigate his murder. So I'd like to see how Mueller is gonna define what his assignment is, and if it's only Trump, the country will not learn what it needs to learn about foreign involvement in American politics."
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:01 AM on May 21, 2017 [15 favorites]

Meh, Roger Ailes's son turned 17 in January. I have no compunction at all about speaking ill of powerful, evil dead people, but it's not because some twerpy child issued a threat. I suspect that his ability to follow through on it is severely constrained by the fact that he will get detention if he skips third period, and I imagine that being Roger Ailes's son is in many respects its own punishment.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:07 AM on May 21, 2017 [11 favorites]

‘Hell is coming with me’: Roger Ailes’ son threatens to ‘come after’ women who accused father of harassment

Tell you what, why don't you fuck off TO hell, where your dad lives now, and take any other hideous mutants he may have spawned with you?
posted by Artw at 9:09 AM on May 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

He doesn't have to follow through himself. He conveniently has an audience of millions of nutjobs created by his father to do his dirty work for him in making these women's lives hell. Plus damaging the cause of assault victims everywhere and their safety.
posted by chris24 at 9:14 AM on May 21, 2017 [31 favorites]

The truely deranged are goving voice:
3 Insane Evangelical Theories About Why the Trump White House Is Imploding.
The apocalypse has already begun.
posted by adamvasco at 9:14 AM on May 21, 2017 [8 favorites]

Gingrich spreads conspiracy theory about slain DNC staffer: With no pushback from the Fox hosts, Gingrich shared innuendos that got new life last week after Rod Wheeler, an occasional contributor to Fox News whom a conservative donor had paid to probe Rich’s death, told local Fox affiliate WTTG 5 that he had new evidence. On Monday, Wheeler claimed to have sources at either the FBI or the D.C. police department who apparently knew that evidence existed of Rich — who was fatally shot in July — contacting WikiLeaks but that an unnamed person had told investigators to “stand down.”
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:16 AM on May 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

I hope all the women respond by getting a restraining order, at minimum.

More Ailes-related what-the-fuckery:

Rachel Maddow Laments Passing Of Roger Ailes: ‘I Considered Him To Be a Friend’

“I don’t want to dismiss any of the serious allegations that were made against [Ailes] that resulted in him being fired from that job, but there were other things to know about him too, and my experience with him was professional and supportive and interesting.”

It doesn't rise to "Clintons and Kissingers vacation together every year" levels of Problematic Friend but she's pulling a #notallRogerAiles. If she made that comment here it would be flagged so hard.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:16 AM on May 21, 2017 [16 favorites]

Time before Van Jones says "This is the day he became President 2: The Presidenting"?

Van Jones needs to get up earlier, because Bob Schieffer beat him too it.
posted by gladly at 9:25 AM on May 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

Missed in all this is that BuzzFeed published her story (which hadn't gone viral) without her permission

I'm curious about the consensus on the ethics of publishing articles about public Tumblr feeds. Where's the potential harm? More publicity than the Tumblr author bargained for?
posted by Coventry at 9:30 AM on May 21, 2017 [6 favorites]

The truely deranged are goving voice:
3 Insane Evangelical Theories About Why the Trump White House Is Imploding.
The apocalypse has already begun.

Thanks for clue-ing me in on what my mother-in-law and the rest of her crazy family is being spoon fed. They totally believe that shit.
posted by photoslob at 9:35 AM on May 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

He doesn't have to follow through himself. He conveniently has an audience of millions of nutjobs created by his father to do his dirty work for him in making these women's lives hell.

Exactly. Everyone dismissing this because he's a kid must be forgetting gamergate.
posted by winna at 9:36 AM on May 21, 2017 [32 favorites]

So Roger Ailes' kid plagiarized Tombstone during a eulogy, eh? I'm almost impressed that a 17 year-old would watch a movie made before 2005 or so, much less steal from it.
posted by xyzzy at 9:50 AM on May 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

ah, yes - teenager hires someone to go after the people who he thinks are responsible for the death of his father

we can call it --- true shit
posted by pyramid termite at 9:54 AM on May 21, 2017 [8 favorites]

Just got my first google notification for "trump martial law site:nytimes.com", which I set up months ago. Fortunately it's about Bahrain. Got me very worked up for a moment, though.
posted by Coventry at 9:59 AM on May 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

A bit earlier Joy Reid played the Office Space "we need to talk about your flair" scene in mockery of Clarke's pin collection.
posted by XMLicious at 10:03 AM on May 21, 2017 [27 favorites]

Where's the potential harm? More publicity than the Tumblr author bargained for?

Death threats, doxxing, and swatting. They may have already happened, but increasing the woman's profile increases the likihood of more people participating. Currently, none of those things are taken particularly seriously by US law enforcement if the target is women, even when the woman is in Congress.
posted by Deoridhe at 10:06 AM on May 21, 2017 [21 favorites]

Trump supporters from 4Chan compile and publish doxxing database of anti trump activists.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 10:09 AM on May 21, 2017 [39 favorites]

secretagentsockpuppet, that link is so. scary. it makes me afraid to speak out, but I know that in this time, I must
(white, male, got the privilege to be shielded from the first round of salvos from these asshats but seriously. what the fuck!?)
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 10:20 AM on May 21, 2017 [11 favorites]

How has 4chan not been shut down? It's a cess pit of of shady shit including child porn. It's humanity at its worst. Serious question.
posted by photoslob at 10:40 AM on May 21, 2017 [6 favorites]

Room 641-A: Rachel Maddow Laments Passing Of Roger Ailes: ‘I Considered Him To Be a Friend’
“I don’t want to dismiss any of the serious allegations that were made against [Ailes] that resulted in him being fired from that job, but there were other things to know about him too, and my experience with him was professional and supportive and interesting.”
"Say what you will about John Wayne Gacy, I prefer to think of all the sick kids he made happy with his clown act."
posted by hangashore at 10:41 AM on May 21, 2017 [17 favorites]

Notre Dame student group plans a commencement walkout tomorrow in honor of Pence.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:22 AM on May 20 [5 favorites +] [!]

Video of the walkout.
posted by Rykey at 10:51 AM on May 21, 2017 [31 favorites]

We know from the released FBI files on GamerGate that law enforcement doesn't take online harassment seriously and isn't enforcing existing laws.

The only known GamerGate style SWATing that was actually prosecuted was in Canada.

It feels like a Dark Forest broadcast. The attacker knows that society isn't filled with silent hunters in the dark forest but that there are rabid people who will attack what you shine a spotlight on. I wish the police would realize this.
posted by Slackermagee at 10:51 AM on May 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

Uh so this is… concerning.

Joined the Council for National Policy, leaders in the conservative movement, who w/ @POTUS are renewing the conservative vision in our time -- Vice President Pence (verified)

Southern Poverty Law Center says:

The Council for National Policy, a highly secretive group, is a key venue where mainstream conservatives and extremists mix.

For 35 years, a shadowy and intensely secretive group has operated behind the scenes, providing a venue three times a year for powerful American politicians and others on the right to meet privately to build the conservative movement.

The Council for National Policy (CNP) is, in the words of The New York Times, “a little-known club of a few hundred of the most powerful conservatives in the country,” an organization so tight-lipped that it tells its people not to admit membership or even name the group. It is important enough that last fall, according to an account in The National Review, Donald Trump and five other Republican presidential candidates each took 30 minutes to address the group; the conservative journal reported that Trump was by far the favorite candidate.
…
But it has long been known that the group included some key individuals whose goals are less benevolent. One of its five founders, Tim LaHaye, is the co-author of the Left Behind series of apocalyptic Christian novels and a man who has described gay people as “vile,” said the Illuminati are conspiring to establish a “new world order,” attacked Catholicism, and once worked for the wildly conspiracist John Birch Society. An important member whose name was revealed early on was John Rousas Rushdoony, who is listed in the 2014 directory’s “In Memoriam” section and advocated for a society ruled by Old Testament law requiring, among other things, the stoning of adulteresses, idolaters and “incorrigible” children.

i mean, pence gonna pence but not bothering to pretend to be mainstream seems new.
posted by murphy slaw at 10:52 AM on May 21, 2017 [68 favorites]

i'm wondering if maddow's experience with ailes is partially because she has been an out lesbian for her entire career so ailes didn't even consider her as a harassment target.
posted by murphy slaw at 10:53 AM on May 21, 2017 [17 favorites]

> QHG Cayman Limited is a mysterious shell company created at the end of 2016 which shares the same address as Walkers in the Cayman Islands.

Yes, at a building called Cayman Corporate Centre. It's probably just a mail forwarding place for companies. When I started my company, we did something similar in Delaware, despite having our real office in California (with real employees, etc). If it's just a mail forwarding center, you can't infer links between other companies that also happen to be incorporated there.

For its exhaustive investigative piece How Russia Sold Its Oil Jewel Without Saying Who Bought It, Reuters certainly invites us to read between the lines about that coincidental common address.

The Singapore-registered investment vehicle that holds the newly privatized 19.5 percent stake in Rosneft is called QHG Shares. It is owned by a London-registered limited liability partnership, QHG Investments, which in turn lists as one of its two owners another London-registered limited liability partnership, QHG Holding, created on Dec. 5.

One of the partners in QHG Holding is QHG Cayman Limited, registered at an address of the Cayman Islands office of [Blackstone Group subsidiary] Walkers, an international law firm.

Jack Boldarin, Walkers managing partner in London, told Reuters the law firm would not be able to confirm whether any company was its client, or comment further.

Even by end of this in-depth piece, it's impossible to know who owns QHG or where its funds came from. For instance, QHG repaid the Russian state-controlled bank VTB its original 10.2 billion euro loan used to buy its Rosneft stake only after it received a 5.2 billion euro loan from Italian bank Intesa SanPaolo - which dodged the question of if it knows the ownership of QHG. It looks less and less like a regular business venture and more and more like money-laundering. In money-laundering, the second stage of "layering" funds camouflages the origin of the old filthy lucre in as many complex transactions as possible. The next step, "integration", invests the funds into legitimate (or legitimate-seeming) projects to generate untainted profits—and suddenly Trump is proposing a ton of public-private partnership infrastructure projects in a deregulated environment for his buddies like Blackstone.

Of course, we could answer any questions about Trump's financial ties to either Blackstone or QHG if we could see his tax returns...
posted by Doktor Zed at 10:55 AM on May 21, 2017 [17 favorites]

There's been some sort of weird clusterfuck where they were supposed to go to the "center for moderate Islam," but diverted to the hotel instead, and now Tillerson is holding a press conference with the Saudi Foreign Minister without American press present.

There's also been a clusterfuck at the California Democratic Convention, where the party's vice-chair Eric Bauman narrowly beat progressive organizer Kimberly Ellis amid protests and anger. Both candidates backed Clinton over Sanders in the primary, but the election quickly turned into a relitigate-the-primaries proxy war. Ellis has so far not conceded and is talking to lawyers about challenging the vote.

Things also went poorly when convention staff tried to cut off Rep. Maxine Waters during her speech.
posted by zachlipton at 10:55 AM on May 21, 2017 [19 favorites]

CNN is showing Trump pressing a button to start a website or some shit? This really is the stupidest bullshit.
posted by Artw at 10:57 AM on May 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

> Rachel Maddow Laments Passing Of Roger Ailes: ‘I Considered Him To Be a Friend’

It doesn't rise to "Clintons and Kissingers vacation together every year" levels of Problematic Friend but she's pulling a #notallRogerAiles. If she made that comment here it would be flagged so hard.

Should she conceal the fact that she regularly sought and received advice from him that she appreciated and found valuable for her own work, though? In the part of that interview I watched, at least, I think she's just being honest.

Joy Reid confirmed on her show today that Ailes had a hand in creating MSNBC because he'd been an executive at CNBC and then founded and hosted a show on the America's Talking channel which NBC spun off from CNBC and which it then used in its partnership with Microsoft after Ailes had left for Fox. (Here's a CNBC article from last year saying the same thing.)
posted by XMLicious at 11:00 AM on May 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

I will stake out and defend this position: Any democratic party official who tries to shut down National Treasure Maxine Waters deserves to be sent to bed without supper.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 11:00 AM on May 21, 2017 [40 favorites]

The Global Center for Combatting Extremist Ideology he's visiting looks like the most fake thing ever. Look at that. Besides the total absurdity of a center to combat extremist ideology in a country where women aren't allowed to drive, not to mention 9/11, just what is that picture? What kind of an office is that? It's supposedly a "media monitoring system."
posted by zachlipton at 11:04 AM on May 21, 2017 [15 favorites]

How has 4chan not been shut down? It's a cess pit of of shady shit including child porn. It's humanity at its worst. Serious question.

Serious question?

Short answer: Because of CDA section 230.
posted by Talez at 11:05 AM on May 21, 2017 [6 favorites]

Reminder: the Republican governor in Utah is going against the Republican majority legislature to call a special election -- I don't know enough about Utah to say if this is a sign of the national fracturing of the Republican party, or an issue between this part

There's been at least a soft bifurcation in Utah Republican politics for years. There's what you could call "Mitt Romney" conservatives: family focused, clean living, main street business with wall street ambitions, but, you know, they still want society. And then there's a culture warrior and John Birch wing, the one who believe that public schools are communism, the ones that believe that tearing down public institutions isn't just good policy, it's what God wants them to do, thanks in part to some activity by a few high profile Mormons who spread versions of those ideas 30-50 years ago (who are weirdly starting to look moderate in comparison). One good example of that fight was the Utah Referendum 1 school vouchers battle back in 2007 -- if the Birchy side of things had been able to keep their raging contempt for public educators and institutions under control, they might have actually won that fight. But they couldn't, and a state full of people who have kids and show up to PTA meetings wasn't ready to swallow the idea that society equals socialism even if they generally voted for nice Republicans.

That's oversimplifying, but it's not a bad first approximation. And Trump support is a weird thing that has made that fault line more active. What I hear from my Utah connections tells me that with Trump ascendant, cultural conservatives aren't sure they're on the right side of things, and the weird froth of alt-right feels as unfamiliar and scary as "The Left." This isn't universal, I can see teeth-grit Trump support via uneasy identification in older people, and there's also still a core of pure political tribalists, who support Trump because there are Republicans and there are enemies, and the Birchy tear-the-state-downers. But sensible conservatives who actually want a society aren't unheard of in Utah, and have long had an uneasy alliance with the wingnut crazy that also lives there. Not sure what kind of luck they'll have reasserting themselves, but it's easy for me to imagine they want to try.
posted by weston at 11:05 AM on May 21, 2017 [23 favorites]

And the result is a very significant change in the delicate balance across the whole Middle East, not because there was an opportunity to make things better, but because there was money to be made.

So what's new?
posted by walrus at 11:11 AM on May 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

Yes, if that Cayman Islands address is an actual law firm (not just a company registration agent or similar), then that could be a strong connection.
posted by ryanrs at 11:17 AM on May 21, 2017

If she made that comment here it would be flagged so hard.

Dude, she knew the man in person. Should she have been silent about his influence on her life (and wait for the right wing media to pick it up?)? Maybe she should have just stopped speaking with him after she became aware of his behavior, but mentors are far harder to find - and far more valued - than friends.

People are complex, and she's literally discussing her own personal experience. I have a hard time faulting her on that.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 11:21 AM on May 21, 2017 [15 favorites]

I suppose this is derail-y, but if someone told me they valued mentors over friends I wouldn't think of them as much of a friend.
posted by phearlez at 11:26 AM on May 21, 2017 [9 favorites]

the total absurdity of a center to combat extremist ideology in a country where women aren't allowed to drive

"ISIS is doing things that no one has ever heard of since medieval times", like beheadings, and he establishes the moderation center in the country that carries out more beheadings than any other by far. 47 on one single day last year including Shia Sheikh Nimr al-Nimr and his nephew.
posted by XMLicious at 11:30 AM on May 21, 2017 [18 favorites]

ISIS is doing things that no one has ever heard of since medieval times", like beheadings

The last execution by guillotine in Europe happened in 1977. I didn't know the Middle Ages ended in living memory.
posted by sukeban at 11:35 AM on May 21, 2017 [17 favorites]

As a woman, I found zacklipton 's picture of the Global Center for Extremist Ideology chilling. All the pictures of Saudi Arabia, all men, are. But this moreso because it makes me feel surveilled on to top of invisible.
posted by Measured Out my Life in Coffeespoons at 11:35 AM on May 21, 2017 [11 favorites]

The Global Center for Combatting Extremist Ideology he's visiting looks like the most fake thing ever. Look at that. Besides the total absurdity of a center to combat extremist ideology in a country where women aren't allowed to drive, not to mention 9/11, just what is that picture? What kind of an office is that? It's supposedly a "media monitoring system."

I'm pretty sure that this is where they keep track of Jason Bourne.
posted by dis_integration at 11:36 AM on May 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

The NYT's Maggie Haberman reports: Priebus is said to be leaving the traveling White House caravan early, returning this week instead of staying the full foreign trip.
And: There is likely to be one other who leaves early on the most crowded trips on AF1 of this presidency.

Meanwhile, Sec. Rexxon gave a press conference which US reporters were not invited to or made aware of.
posted by Doktor Zed at 11:38 AM on May 21, 2017 [17 favorites]

If ISIS were buying $120B in weapons from us, their beheadings probably wouldn't bother him either, eh?
posted by Cookiebastard at 11:43 AM on May 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

Article II, Section II: "...he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment."

One possible interpretation is that as soon as the House of Representatives begins an impeachment process, Trump would be blocked from pardoning. Does anyone know what the step that begings a formal impeachment process (with hearings, etc.) is?
posted by msalt at 11:49 AM on May 21, 2017

But it has long been known that the group included some key individuals whose goals are less benevolent. One of its five founders, Tim LaHaye, is the co-author of the Left Behind series of apocalyptic Christian novels and a man who has described gay people as “vile,” said the Illuminati are conspiring to establish a “new world order,” attacked Catholicism, and once worked for the wildly conspiracist John Birch Society. An important member whose name was revealed early on was John Rousas Rushdoony, who is listed in the 2014 directory’s “In Memoriam” section and advocated for a society ruled by Old Testament law requiring, among other things, the stoning of adulteresses, idolaters and “incorrigible” children.

You know what? I am never going to downplay my anarchist ideas again, and I might go a little easier on communists I know. Frankly, any old fool idea advanced by the left looks pretty good next to the wishes and plans of actual right wing rich people who have some kind of hope of bringing their dreams into reality. "Let's try this slightly improbable plan to have a society with no government on the theory that people will be less horrible to each other" looks pretty good next to "we should be ruled by theocrats and regularly engage in public murder of our neighbors".
posted by Frowner at 11:58 AM on May 21, 2017 [60 favorites]

Impeachment process.
The House Judiciary Committee decides whether or not to proceed with impeachment. If they do...
The Chairman of the Judiciary Committee will propose a resolution calling for the Judiciary Committee to begin a formal inquiry into the issue of impeachment.
Based on their inquiry, the Judiciary Committee will send another resolution composed of one or more "Articles of Impeachment" to the full House stating that impeachment is warranted and why or that impeachment is not called for.
The Full House (probably operating under special floor rules set by the House Rules Committee) will debate and vote on each Article of Impeachment.
Should any one of the Articles of Impeachment be approved by a simple majority vote, the President will be "impeached."
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:02 PM on May 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

The Global Center for Combatting Extremist Ideology he's visiting looks like the most fake thing ever.

And they're clearly doing a bang-up job, too.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:04 PM on May 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

Joined the Council for National Policy, leaders in the conservative movement, who w/ @POTUS are renewing the conservative vision in our time -- Vice President Pence (verified)

"an organization so tight-lipped that it tells its people not to admit membership or even name the group." - SLPC

Potential President Pence, ladies and gentlemen.
posted by jaduncan at 12:07 PM on May 21, 2017 [15 favorites]

The last execution by guillotine in Europe happened in 1977. I didn't know the Middle Ages ended in living memory.

When you've never read a book all sorts of stuff is surprising to you.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:10 PM on May 21, 2017 [12 favorites]

Pence never received the memo about the first rule of Fight Club.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:10 PM on May 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

They should have sent it certified mail.
posted by zachlipton at 12:15 PM on May 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

Mayor of the small town of Monessen, PA lost his seat last week to a 26 year old after having hosted Trump last year.

Having actually looked at the Allegheny County 2016 electoral results map (I know Monessen is in Westmoreland Co, but it's the same demographics), it's pretty clear to me that Trump support in the river valleys is overstated. Like, yeah, out of work steel workers etc yadda but the more affluent suburbs and exurbs are way redder and more reliably so. Trumpism is not a foregone conclusion in places like Monessen. (Lots of Democrats there voted straight D for everything but the presidential race, and the outcome was 47% Hillary, 49%'Trump, with Democrats winning every other race.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:23 PM on May 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

The last execution by guillotine in Europe happened in 1977. I didn't know the Middle Ages ended in living memory.

The thing was invented in 1791. And most of the lurid torture and execution methods that people habitually call "medieval" are from the Renaissance or Early Modern period.

I am not a medievalist; I am not your medievalist
posted by thelonius at 12:23 PM on May 21, 2017 [42 favorites]

The thing was invented in 1791. And most of the lurid torture and execution methods that people habitually call "medieval" are from the Renaissance or Early Modern period.

In Spain the last execution was done by garrote vil (which means slow strangulation) in 1974 at the tail end of the Franco dictatorship. A guillotine would have been more civilized.
posted by sukeban at 12:29 PM on May 21, 2017 [8 favorites]

When Marcellus Wallace says "I'ma get medieval on your ass" he's not aiming for historic accuracy. He's evoking a particularly wanton disregard for life and dignity.
posted by dmh at 12:30 PM on May 21, 2017 [10 favorites]

If he'd said "I'ma get Renaissance on your ass" Zed and his partner might have assumed he was going to paint sexy, chubby pictures of them or something.
posted by Cookiebastard at 12:44 PM on May 21, 2017 [69 favorites]

The Atlantic: Trump Turns Politically Correct in Saudi Arabia -"The president says wildly offensive things when the objects of his derision aren’t around, but crumples when he actually meets them."

Donald Trump appears to have envisioned his speech on Sunday in Riyadh as an answer to Barack Obama’s 2009 address in Cairo. And reading the two side by side is illuminating. The speeches differ in many ways, but none more striking than this: Trump’s speech was far more politically correct.

posted by ZeusHumms at 12:45 PM on May 21, 2017 [32 favorites]

Zed and his partner might have assumed he was going to paint sexy, chubby pictures of them or something.

Spoiler: this is what he proceeds to do, IIRC. Although I have to say it's been over a decade since I've seen the movie so I may be dismembering the plot.
posted by rainy at 12:54 PM on May 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

Ahh, thisis what the stupid globe reminds me of: XCOM Enemy Unknown - The use of Ethereal Device
posted by Artw at 12:58 PM on May 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

I realise there's probably some perfectly reasonable explanation for whatever is happening in this picture. But...
posted by Buntix at 12:58 PM on May 21, 2017 [45 favorites]

We've had methods for punitive murder as long as we've had tools and tribes. They're all disgusting.
posted by cmfletcher at 1:02 PM on May 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

I'd take a quick beheading over being tortured to death with expired poison, TBH.
posted by Artw at 1:03 PM on May 21, 2017 [17 favorites]

A guillotine would have been more civilized

It was designed to be more humane, certainly.
posted by winna at 1:04 PM on May 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

I realise there's probably some perfectly reasonable explanation for whatever is happening in this picture.

it's a palantir - hold on to it long enough, you see the eye of exxon
posted by pyramid termite at 1:05 PM on May 21, 2017 [46 favorites]

I was curious how Breitbart would spin the speech, so I checked. No hint of criticism. It concludes with a statement like "if this is received as a moderate speech," that means Trump had succeeded in mainstreaming the idea that Muslims need to take responsibility for terrorists in their communities." They say out didn't matter that he didn't say "radical Islamic terrorism because he did say "Islamic extremism" and the point is to get the word "Islamic" in there. They liked the Iran call outs, and they do a lot of compare and contrast to that Obama speech, which they claim was all about apologizing for America.

So either Trump blew enough dog whistles for his base, or Breitbart wasn't going to criticize him no matter what.

Meanwhile Sen. Chris Murphy has another great piece in HuffPo.

Just What The Middle East Needs — $110 Billion More In Weapons

First, let’s look at what’s going to happen with these weapons. Piled on top of this enormous arms lot are precision-guided munitions that President Obama would not sell the Saudis. That’s not because the Obama folks didn’t like selling weapons to the Saudis — Obama sold more weapons and gear to Saudi Arabia in eight years than all other previous administrations combined. No, Obama withheld precision-guided munitions because the Saudis were using U.S.-provided munitions to repeatedly target civilian and humanitarian sites in their bombing campaign inside Yemen, despite regular protests from the United States. Thousands of civilians inside Yemen have been killed during the civil war, many by the Saudi-led coalition, and today, the country is on the brink of famine in part because the Saudis have intentionally destroyed transit hubs and key bridges, and blocked the delivery of humanitarian aid into Yemen. As we speak, millions of Yemenis are being radicalized against the country they blame for the civilian deaths: the United States. By selling the Saudis these precision-guided weapons more — not fewer — civilians will be killed because it is Saudi Arabia’s strategy to starve Yemenis to death to increase their own leverage at the negotiating table. They couldn’t do this without the weapons we are selling them.
...
We have to ask whether continuing to fuel the growing proxy war between Saudi Arabia and Iran is the right way to bring peace to the Middle East.
...
What do we have to gain by going in so enthusiastically with the Sunnis against the Shia in their fight for power in the Middle East? This isn’t our fight, and history suggests the U.S. military meddling in the Middle East ends up great for U.S. military contractors, but pretty miserable for everyone else.
...
$110 billion could educate every single one of the 30 million African primary school age children who has no access to school today...for five years. Put the two side-by-side: larger weapons stockpiles in one capital in the conflict-ridden Middle East, or universal access to primary education in Africa for half a decade. Tell me which one makes the world a more stable place.

Meanwhile at The American Conservative, land of contrasts, one of their samer writers sounds lot like Murphy.

Trump’s ‘Principled Realism’ Is Neither Principled Nor Realist

Trump’s Riyadh speech was as shamelessly pro-Saudi as could be. He began by praising King Salman and the “magnificent” Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, and followed it with a speech that could very easily have been written by their own propaganda office. He boasted about the massive $110 billion arms deal that he and Salman signed, and promised that he would help the Saudis get a “good deal” from our weapons manufacturers. (Because at least some of the weapons that will be sold are likely to be used in committing war crimes in Yemen, the American Bar Association’s human rights section warned that the agreement may violate U.S. law.) Trump then touted a new center for “combating extremist ideology” that is being created in Riyadh, which he fawningly described as “this central part of the Islamic world.” The president then gushed over Salman’s “absolutely incredible and powerful leadership.” Salman’s own courtiers could hardly have been more sycophantic.

posted by OnceUponATime at 1:08 PM on May 21, 2017 [24 favorites]

The Atlantic: Trump Turns Politically Correct in Saudi Arabia -"The president says wildly offensive things when the objects of his derision aren’t around, but crumples when he actually meets them"

Why can't he say the words "Radical Islamic Terrorism"?

It's not because he has good, coherent, sociopolitical reasons not to (like Obama). That would require, you know, coherence.

It must be that he's a big fat coward, then. Huge coward. Francesco Schettino's like, "man up."
posted by leotrotsky at 1:08 PM on May 21, 2017 [6 favorites]

Seriously what is that creepy glowing globe thing? I refuse to believe it's a real picture.
posted by winna at 1:11 PM on May 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

i wonder how that pic of trump grasping the globe with two muslim leaders is going to play with the infowars crowd
posted by murphy slaw at 1:12 PM on May 21, 2017 [11 favorites]

I realise there's probably some perfectly reasonable explanation for whatever is happening in this picture.

That looks like one of those David Dees cartoons [cw: crazy antisemitic shit], except real
posted by theodolite at 1:12 PM on May 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

Daniel Dale livetweeted the speech.
His take: "Trump says in a few different ways that he doesn't care about about domestic human rights issues in places like Saudi Arabia."
And then: "Much later, Trump talks about women's empowerment. This sounds like a speech written by multiple people who disagree with each other."
posted by spamandkimchi at 1:14 PM on May 21, 2017 [17 favorites]

also i will bet if the white house uses this picture for some reason, trump's fingers will be photoshopped to be longer
posted by murphy slaw at 1:14 PM on May 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

Seriously what is that creepy glowing globe thing? I refuse to believe it's a real picture.

Leave it to Trump to actually perform witchcraft in public after repeatedly using "witch hunt" as a metaphorical search for something he's trying to imply doesn't exist.
posted by XMLicious at 1:16 PM on May 21, 2017 [16 favorites]

The speeches differ in many ways, but none more striking than this: Trump’s speech was far more politically correct.

Barack was already taken seriously, so he could actually say something to help achieve his foreign policy goals. Also, he had ideas that might actually be worth voicing.

I strongly suspect that Trump's goal is just to be seen to give a speech that could be held to be vaguely enough within the norms of what one might expect a head of state to say that it won't instantly be ripped to shreds in the press.
posted by jaduncan at 1:18 PM on May 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

@Acosta:
Trump's use of term "Islamic terror" during speech deviated from prepared remarks which read "Islamist."

@Acosta:
It was likely an "oversight" I'm told.

@Acosta:
At a briefing with reporters a WH official said POTUS is "exhausted."

@jeffzeleny:
Asked about line in speech today when Trump said Islamic instead of Islamist, a senior White House official said: “He’s an exhausted guy."

---

Two days in. Bodes well for the rest of the trip.
posted by chris24 at 1:28 PM on May 21, 2017 [53 favorites]

Two days in. Bodes well for the rest of the trip.

Strange. I recall a lot of talk regarding HRC's lack of stamina after she was SoS for 4 years.
posted by jaduncan at 1:32 PM on May 21, 2017 [49 favorites]

The White House already requested to cut down the meet and greet on the runway to a handshake and dual anthem play when he arrives in Israel I assume because President Snowflake gets the vapours when the temp rises above 26C.
posted by PenDevil at 1:33 PM on May 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

The expression on the king's face in that glowing globe picture is really really weird.

Melania looks kinda creepy half-shadowed by Donnie.

Was the symbolism of the photo op actually supposed to be what it apparently looks like?
posted by porpoise at 1:35 PM on May 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

During a eulogy for his father, the teen-aged son of ex-Fox News head Roger Ailes issued a threat to the women he feels caused his father to get booted from the conservative news network

According to New York Magazine editor Gabriel Sherman — whose reporting contributed to Ailes’s demise — Zachary Ailes told the mourners at the Palm Beach funeral, “I’m coming after them…and hell is coming with me.”

This reminds me of the bit early in Final Fantasy VII when president Shinra kicks it and Rufus shows up to inherit everything, and everyone is like, "Finally! Dude, your father was a monster but now you have a chance to help rebuild after his damage," and Rufus is like, "Hey, have you guys heard of Mussolini? Want to be my generals? I'm really into vaporwave and smothering human rights lately" and everybody just wigs out and you fight a panther.

We don't even live in the Onionverse anymore, we live in the Transmetropolitanverse, don't even get me started on the topical significance of FFVI, a game in which a deranged, narcissistic clown who makes nothing but increasingly bad, dumb decisions buddies up with literal Nazis to secure power and destroy the world out of petty insecurity
posted by byanyothername at 1:36 PM on May 21, 2017 [14 favorites]

Melania looks kinda creepy half-shadowed by Donnie.

For extra creepiness you can rabbit/duck illusion it and see it with Trump's eyes open, but gone a bit glowing alabaster (it has that sort of original B&W Sinbad movie thing going on, could easily imagine there being a skeleton army surrounding as the camera pulls back...)
posted by Buntix at 1:43 PM on May 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

Remember how Peter Thiel named his company Palantir
posted by theodolite at 1:45 PM on May 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

a) I realise there's probably some perfectly reasonable explanation for whatever is happening in this picture. they're contacting Red Electroids. The Saudi flag icon in the top right is hiding a watermelon.
b) Roger Ailes grieving teenage son. I think you can back off on him. Jesus. He's seventeen. Have some class.
posted by j_curiouser at 1:46 PM on May 21, 2017

The expression on the king's face in that glowing globe picture is really really weird.

The King looks like he just ripped a fart and he hopes no one will notice.

I'll go on record here: that picture is the goddamnedest thing I've ever seen.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:48 PM on May 21, 2017 [15 favorites]

At a briefing with reporters a WH official said POTUS is "exhausted."

Poor dear. How about a bit of rest and a cup of tea to get your stamina back?
posted by Talez at 1:53 PM on May 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

There was one line in Trump's script that I thought was especially interesting:
A better future is only possible if your nations drive out the terrorists and extremists. Drive. Them. Out.

DRIVE THEM OUT of your places of worship.

DRIVE THEM OUT of your communities.

DRIVE THEM OUT of your holy land, and

DRIVE THEM OUT OF THIS EARTH.
[my emphasis]
The "holy land" bit is a clear reference to Saudi Arabia. Either it's a very pointed criticism of the Kingdom's support and sanctuary for militant Sunni groups, or it's a wink and a nod to Saudi repression of the Shi'ite and other non-Sunni groups that are still a significant minority of the population. Either way, it's the sort of thing that would normally mark a significant shift in official policy.
posted by Joe in Australia at 1:53 PM on May 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

Bannon does not look comfortable at this gathering.
posted by doop at 1:55 PM on May 21, 2017 [29 favorites]

significant shift in official policy.

Who plans policy anymore? Just shoot from the hip. Make it up as you go alone. It's malleable. Some country don't like it? We don't need them. We have nuclear fucking weapons. Who's going to challenge us?
posted by Talez at 1:55 PM on May 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

the only thing that would make that picture more ominous would be if the globe turned red where they touched it and it dripped down the sides
posted by murphy slaw at 1:56 PM on May 21, 2017 [8 favorites]

In the context of arming the Kurds—The Story of a Sniper, a 12 minute interview with a Kurdish sniper in Kobani from last year, via dual-language Dutch ~~news~~ enemy of the people site The Correspondent and Dutch-Kurdish filmmaker Reber Dosky.
posted by XMLicious at 1:57 PM on May 21, 2017

Google's best guess for this image: "event." Hilarious.
posted by Coventry at 2:05 PM on May 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

No really what is rhe glowing globe thing about?!

Oh. I guess someone linked it up thread but I discounted it: opening of Global Center for Combatting Extremist Ideology
posted by R343L at 2:08 PM on May 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

OK, but what is the woo laying-on-of-hands about?
posted by Coventry at 2:10 PM on May 21, 2017

Another gem: "Trump is literally explaining the Middle East to the Arab summit. Ex: the Suez canal is here, most Arabs are under 30 y.o., etc" (Liam Stack, NYT reporter & former Cairo correspondent)

I love Twitter for reporters' unpolished but informed hot takes. Telegraph UK's Middle East correspondent Raf Sanchez is in Jerusalem waiting for Trump's arrival but he tweeted this thread:

Trump laments the repression in Iran. People there can vote, women can drive, and they aren't being bombed out of of existence like Yemen.
No doubt Iran is a sponsor of terror. But the terrorism the US faces is Sunni jihadism that has its roots in Saudi-style fundamentalism.
No point debating which is a worse dictatorship, both are terrible. But lavishing praise on Saudi while condemning Iran is ridiculous.

Also this! "An audience of Saudi men listening politely to country music in Riyadh. "
posted by spamandkimchi at 2:10 PM on May 21, 2017 [28 favorites]

b) Roger Ailes grieving teenage son. I think you can back off on him. Jesus. He's seventeen. Have some class.
Uh... He's talking about "bringing hell" to the traumatized sexual assault survivors of his father- He is absolutely fair game.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 2:12 PM on May 21, 2017 [82 favorites]

I think it's just art or decoration and this wasn't the grand opening. Honestly no weirder than people awkwardly holding up a ribbon while one or more people use giant scissors to cut it. I just discounted it because why would the Saudis have Ann anti-terrorism center called GLOBE?!
posted by R343L at 2:12 PM on May 21, 2017

Mark my words: the glowing globe picture will appear on a patch for a future National Reconnaissance Office mission.

I mean, really?
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:12 PM on May 21, 2017 [6 favorites]

I have to do this because my predictions are almost always completely dead wrong: freakin called it
posted by theodolite at 2:13 PM on May 21, 2017 [13 favorites]

"An audience of Saudi men listening politely to country music in Riyadh. "
"We don't smoke marijuana in Medina"
posted by thelonius at 2:13 PM on May 21, 2017 [6 favorites]

I am going to strangle autocorrect. It WAS the opening ceremony, not wasn't.
posted by R343L at 2:19 PM on May 21, 2017

"An audience of Saudi men listening politely to country music in Riyadh."

"All my Saudi friends are comin' over tonight!"
posted by octobersurprise at 2:19 PM on May 21, 2017 [11 favorites]

I don't see why Bannon would be uncomfortable at that event. He's spent a lot of time hanging out with Saudi Princes.

And Breitbart was allegedly acting as a de facto foreign agent for [Egyptian politician Moustafa] El-Gindy by providing him with friendly coverage.

Bannon is in his element on this trip.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:25 PM on May 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

"would you lay with me on a field of sand?"
posted by pyramid termite at 2:25 PM on May 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

The thing about the weird orb picture is that no competent staff should ever allow such a weird thing to be taken. No good could ever come from the world seeing such an image. only a ton of WTFs and endless parody. Perhaps Trump had little choice but to participate in whatever event this was, but surely to goodness, his staff should have said "No way, it will make the President look like a weirdo...." Their incompetence is staggering.
posted by vac2003 at 2:39 PM on May 21, 2017 [16 favorites]

Clearly in the "event" picture, Trump is releasing a long, squeaky fart, and the King has discovered that pushing on the globe makes the pitch change. To his evident delight.
posted by petebest at 2:42 PM on May 21, 2017 [9 favorites]

Meanwhile, with the Loyal Opposition...
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:42 PM on May 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

Roger Ailes grieving teenage son. I think you can back off on him. Jesus. He's seventeen. Have some class.

We are going easy on him. If he weren't a dumb teenage punk who was also grieving, I think people would be suing him for threatening witnesses. Compared to that, trash-talk behind his back and eye-rolling is mild, wouldn't you say?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:42 PM on May 21, 2017 [28 favorites]

Standard SCROTUS Mideast photo-op, really.
posted by petebest at 2:43 PM on May 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

oh sure, now everyone forgets that picture of obama and the chinese diplomatic corps prostrating themselves before a glowing crystalline obelisk of unknown origin
posted by murphy slaw at 2:43 PM on May 21, 2017 [48 favorites]

I don't see why Bannon would be uncomfortable at that event. He's spent a lot of time hanging out with Saudi Princes.

That's the look of a man in such desperate need of a drink that he's worried he might have a seizure.
posted by Token Meme at 2:46 PM on May 21, 2017 [36 favorites]

Josh Marshall (TPM): "Financial Crimes" and Why Trump is Right to Worry

A key element, perhaps the key element, of the counter-intelligence probe is examining the financial ties between Trump, members of his entourage and people from the Russian business and intelligence worlds. So a close examination of those ventures isn’t some fishing expedition. It’s at the heart of the investigation. A close look at what is available in public records, court filings and news reporting makes me think that that kind of scrutiny would not end well for any of the people involved.

posted by Barack Spinoza at 2:51 PM on May 21, 2017 [13 favorites]

In that photo Trump is sacrificing a significant amount of his limited bodily energy in order to jumpstart that whole operation
posted by salix at 2:52 PM on May 21, 2017 [6 favorites]

The thing about the weird orb picture is that no competent staff should ever allow such a weird thing to be taken. No good could ever come from the world seeing such an image.

That is why I thought it had to be a photoshop when it popped up on twitter like mushrooms after rain. Surely no one would assent to being part of such s deeply weird and ominous visual without considering the appearances?

But then I realized yet again I'd overestimated the basic common sense and competence of the current administration.
posted by winna at 2:52 PM on May 21, 2017 [16 favorites]

The expression on the king's face in that glowing globe picture is really really weird.

I totally thought it was one of those plasma globes that used to be so expensive, and are now the sort of crappy Science!!! gift you get for kids whose parents you don't know. Maybe it is one of those globes: both Trump and the Saudi royals seem to associate flashiness with quality.
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:53 PM on May 21, 2017

MetaFilter: only a ton of WTFs and endless parody
posted by kirkaracha at 2:58 PM on May 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

So, what's the verdict? America first, Saudi Arabia second?

@RealDonaldTrump: "Had a great time in #Saudi. Before I thought they're only a 4, but now I think the're at least an 8 or a 9."
posted by sour cream at 3:04 PM on May 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

imma need a real/fake tag on that plz
posted by entropicamericana at 3:06 PM on May 21, 2017 [38 favorites]

Yeah same. I went to verify it and it wasn't on his account or in his replies.
posted by Talez at 3:07 PM on May 21, 2017

Yeah. PLEASE add real/fake tags. I almost had a stroke.
posted by _Mona_ at 3:08 PM on May 21, 2017 [6 favorites]

holy crap:
Axios: Trump wanted to veto bill to keep government open
posted by murphy slaw at 3:11 PM on May 21, 2017 [28 favorites]

Trump to propose big cuts to safety-net in new budget, slashing Medicaid and opening door to other limits [WaPo]:

President Trump’s first major budget proposal on Tuesday will include massive cuts to Medicaid and call for changes to anti-poverty programs that would give states new power to limit a range of benefits, people familiar with the planning said, despite growing unease in Congress about cutting the safety net.

For Medicaid, the state-federal program that provides health care to low-income Americans, Trump’s budget plan would follow through on a bill passed by House Republicans to cut more than $800 billion over 10 years. The Congressional Budget Office has estimated that this could cut off Medicaid benefits for about 10 million people over the next decade.

The White House also will call for giving states more flexibility to impose work requirements for people in different kinds of anti-poverty programs, people familiar with the budget plan said, potentially leading to a flood of changes in states led by conservative governors. Many anti-poverty programs have elements that are run by both the states and federal government, and a federal order allowing states to stiffen work requirements could have a broad impact in terms of limiting who can access anti-poverty payments — and for how long.

posted by Westringia F. at 3:11 PM on May 21, 2017 [21 favorites]

The White House also will call for giving states more flexibility to impose work requirements for people in different kinds of anti-poverty programs, people familiar with the budget plan said, potentially leading to a flood of changes in states led by conservative governors. Many anti-poverty programs have elements that are run by both the states and federal government, and a federal order allowing states to stiffen work requirements could have a broad impact in terms of limiting who can access anti-poverty payments — and for how long.

Why even bother having any sort of society safety net? Just bring back poorhouses. Force children to do manual labor, improve morale by beatings, the whole nine yards.
posted by Talez at 3:17 PM on May 21, 2017 [11 favorites]

Also note that these would be changes to mandatory spending (aka entitlements), as opposed to the discretionary appropriations that are the subject of the annual budget negotiations. They would have remained in place otherwise, so this would be a very significant change indeed.
posted by Westringia F. at 3:20 PM on May 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

Axios: Trump wanted to veto bill to keep government open...

Heh. I'm doing a tiny victory dance.

When I heard eight people in a row back then say "Trump won't shut down the government", the well trained contrarian voice inside me (who has learned to stop trusting pundits) said "Trump would l-o-v-e to shut down the government." C'mon, wouldn't that be a power trip? He doesn't think much about consequences.
posted by puddledork at 3:22 PM on May 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

I didn't see anyone else mention of this, but did anybody notice Alec Baldwin's flag pin in the cold open?
Or has this been happening for weeks?
posted by MtDewd at 3:22 PM on May 21, 2017 [6 favorites]

in a just world mick mulvaney would be robbed by street urchins, knocked unconscious, and eaten by rats
posted by murphy slaw at 3:23 PM on May 21, 2017 [24 favorites]

The link posted by oneswellfoop is well worth reading if only as a reminder that the progressives in various parts (maybe all of them) of the Democratic party structure are vastly outnumbered by the business-as-usual folks. Take Florida, for example:

Last night, the party's new second-in-command, Sally Boynton Brown, spoke in front of the Democratic Progressive Caucus of Broward County. And throughout the exchange, she steadfastly refused to commit to changing the party's economic or health-care messaging in any concrete way. ... Brown's speech perfectly illustrates why the Florida Democratic Party (and the party in general) can't seem to get out of its own way and actually win elections.

How important is it for candidates to concentrate on "issues" like health care or economic equality, one audience member asked. Her answer? Not very. She said candidates moving forward should focus on "identity messages" instead, which she didn't actually define.

In a follow-up question, she also warned party members not to get too excited about turning districts from Republican to Democrat and said the best we ought to hope for is that Florida becomes more "purple." (She also said she was proud about not supporting either candidate in the 2016 Democratic primary, which is an odd sort of thing to boast about as a Democratic Party leader.)

Later in the meeting, she then said that people who are struggling to make ends meet — and often decline to vote because they say it doesn't matter — do not vote based on "issues" they care about and instead vote because they are "emotional beings." She added that people apparently skip voting because they've somehow forgotten about the "power of democracy," whatever that means.
posted by Bella Donna at 3:25 PM on May 21, 2017 [18 favorites]

Well, the glowing globe picture explains why Trump brought Spicer along. Whatever they're summoning needs the expenditure of at least 8 POW and that's got to come from someone...
posted by Major Clanger at 3:27 PM on May 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

I love my representative so much right now:

“As a nation that prides itself as the foremost democracy in the world, the right to vote is as crucial as ever to ensuring we live up to our word,” Rep. Grijalva said. “Long before Trump and his administration set out to ensure ‘election integrity’ through a bogus commission Republican legislators have led efforts to make voting more difficult for millions of Americans. The President’s commission is a mere distraction from his own election meddling issues. While widespread voting fraud is a myth, voter disenfranchisement and intimidation are very real issues in our country and are contrary to the principles of our democracy. The events that took place in Arizona’s March 2016 primary election were undemocratic and serve as a prime example of voting inaccessibility mishaps across the country. In order to ensure that incidents like this never happen again, I am re-introducing the Voting Access Act.

Raul Grijalva. Kickass Democrat.
posted by MrVisible at 3:49 PM on May 21, 2017 [60 favorites]

@RealDonaldTrump: "Had a great time in #Saudi.

Y'know how it's against the law to "joke" around the TSA checkpoints?

Fake/Real 2020
posted by petebest at 3:51 PM on May 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

لا دمية. لا دمية. أنت الدمى.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:52 PM on May 21, 2017 [11 favorites]

Bella Donna: that reads to me suspiciously like "We can't piss off our wealthy donors so let's just make meaningless mouth noises as we drift further into irrelevancy." This illustrates why I think Democratic party leadership is a huge part of the problem, perhaps the major part of the problem that Democrats are having now.

I think there is room for leftist third parties like the Working Families Party or even (gasp!) the Socialists (Kshama Sawant of Seattle is one) as long as they are willing to start at the bottom and build local grass-roots presences and not stage big splashy futile Presidential runs and then retreat for four years, and they are willing to caucus with Democrats to get bills passed.

Luckily, there are kick-ass Democrats that are not mealy-mouthed (hi, Maxine Waters, Gavin Newsom, Kamala Harris, Ted Lieu, Raul Grijalva, and others!) but the Sally Boynton Browns are really holding us back.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 3:56 PM on May 21, 2017 [25 favorites]

"guys! guys! no wait! we get this ominous glowing orb and put it on a pedestal and tell him by laying hands on it he will completely destroy terrorism and feminism, and enable him to grab whatever he wants wherever he wants!"

"nah - not even he will fall for that."
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 3:58 PM on May 21, 2017 [8 favorites]

"Ms. Boynton Brown, in your opinion, what is the purpose of the Democratic Party? Why do you think it exists?
posted by Faint of Butt at 4:00 PM on May 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

One time I spent a week inside a little Saudi jail. Doo Doo Doo.
posted by bongo_x at 4:01 PM on May 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

One time I spent a week inside a little Saudi jail. Doo Doo Doo.
I... would like you to unpack that because it sounds like it was horrifying.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 4:08 PM on May 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

I realise there's probably some perfectly reasonable explanation for whatever is happening in this picture. But...

Do not try to escape. You are in my control. Look at me: I am the sum of all evils. Look carefully. My power infests all times, all galaxies, all dimensions. But many still seek me out; a green jewel they must possess. But see how I destroy their lives.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:08 PM on May 21, 2017 [10 favorites]

I think we need to establish the Fully Automated Luxury Space Communism wing of the Democratic party, funded with donations from the grassroots internet and from Elon "I name my robot barges after Culture Minds" Musk. Trump has tapped into the memed-up youth culture with his horde of sad little reactionary Kek-worshippers; we need an alternative vision that acknowledges the coming economic upheaval brought on by automation, and that turns it into the positive thing it should be by proposing new models that allow everyone to share the bounty. Full renewable energy and the phasing out of mandatory lifelong employment should be mainstream topics.
posted by contraption at 4:12 PM on May 21, 2017 [33 favorites]

The Fully Automated thing is already happening. Over at Reddit, the anti-Trump memes are outnumbering t_d's shitposts by 10 to 1, or more. Don't mistake the sad sacks of t_d and /pol/ for an army. They're loud but much smaller than the noise indicates.
posted by honestcoyote at 4:19 PM on May 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

Over at Reddit, the anti-Trump memes are outnumbering t_d's shitposts by 10 to 1, or more.

Reddit has been putting a ridiculous amount of effort to stick t_d in their own shit covered corner where they can't pollute /r/all.
posted by Talez at 4:27 PM on May 21, 2017 [8 favorites]

Salon (orig. Alternet) : As impeachment talk grows, have Trump’s former top aides already cut deals with federal prosecutors?

There are telling clues that former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn and Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort are involved in the dicey dance of seeking cooperation agreements with various federal law enforcement agencies—or have already made a deal to testify in closed proceedings. That’s the conclusion of investigative reporters who have exposed foreign agents and a career public defender with long experience negotiating deals to avoid federal indictments.

“It’s a more than reasonable question, whether Paul Manafort, who was on Moscow’s payroll and that of the pro-Moscow Ukrainian government before it was overthrown, is cooperating with federal investigators,” said David Cay Johnston, a Trump biographer and editor of DCReport.org. “Because he has not registered as a foreign agent, a law that has incredibly tough tools that could strip him of every dollar he has — as well as prison. And it’s significant that Michael Flynn has asked for immunity in return for telling his story.”

“They could already have a plea,” said Miles Gerety, a career death penalty public defender now in private practice including negotiating pleas with federal prosecutors. “They [the Justice Department and other agencies] could seal it for a period of time. A lot of stuff could have already happened.”

posted by ZeusHumms at 4:35 PM on May 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

Well, they've put a lot of effort in without actually going through and banning them. Maybe it's a sunk-costs thing at this point.
posted by Slackermagee at 4:36 PM on May 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

country music songs

"But I killed a tribe in Yemen
Just to watch it die."
posted by msalt at 4:42 PM on May 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

T_D admins et al have been compiling a dox list with a couple of thousand left wing activists on it. Theres's a lot of drama behind the scenes.
posted by jaduncan at 4:49 PM on May 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

Also, since we're nearing this thread's Ol' River Jordan, as it were, there is the inconvenient notion that the blogger-who-she-shall-not-be-named argued some months ago that Comey was seekritly a good guy who was dancing with Trump long enough to make charges stick, and, later, that a grand jury in Virginia subpoenaed documents from Flynn's business associates. Both of which appear to be, well, at least arguably true.

Oops gotta scram kid's got a thing
posted by petebest at 4:52 PM on May 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

Long before they started doxing others, the admins at the_donald were at the top of my list of "private" citizens most deserving to be doxed themselves.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:54 PM on May 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

...but then, I've also put the admins at the_donald at the top of my list of American citizens most deserving to be deported.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:56 PM on May 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

Well, they've put a lot of effort in without actually going through and banning them. Maybe it's a sunk-costs thing at this point.

It's because a grass roots Reddit version of civil war will not be pretty. t_d is the biggest non-default subreddit. Even if they kill the sub, there are people who would be more than willing to fight a virtual guerrilla war out of sheer spite (or, as they put it, for the lulz). How do you fight that which has no life?
posted by Talez at 5:01 PM on May 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

I have been on their Discord server a couple of times out of morbid interest. It's not moderated like T_D is, so there is a frankly horrific amount of open racism and anti-semitism. I also mean that as in (and my apologies for the terms) "mud people", "kikes" and such; it's not subtle. Their server is really clearly a crossover between T_D and 4chan.
posted by jaduncan at 5:09 PM on May 21, 2017 [6 favorites]

t_d is the biggest non-default subreddit

It is one of the largest, but there are other, larger, non-defaults.
posted by ryanrs at 5:15 PM on May 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

there is the inconvenient notion that the blogger-who-she-shall-not-be-named argued some months ago that Comey was seekritly a good guy who was dancing with Trump long enough to make charges stick, and, later, that a grand jury in Virginia subpoenaed documents from Flynn's business associates. Both of which appear to be, well, at least arguably true.

Stopped clock, blind pig and acorn, etc. The same person also claims Andrew Breitbart was killed by Putin in order to advance Steve Bannon, Bernie Sanders is a Russian agent, the Ferguson protests were funded by Russia, and the teenage girl in the Anthony Weiner sexting scandal was a fake persona created by Russian intelligence as a honeypot. Crazy conspiracy theorist being almost accidentally right about one thing doesn't make them credible.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 5:16 PM on May 21, 2017 [17 favorites]

blogger-who-she-shall-not-be-named

If you can't name her, can you at least give a hint? Too inside-baseball for me.
posted by Coventry at 5:19 PM on May 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

Mensch.
posted by notyou at 5:21 PM on May 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

Thanks. Now I really don't know what to make of her.
posted by Coventry at 5:23 PM on May 21, 2017

I'll help you out; she's either a troll, a loon, or both.
posted by Justinian at 5:24 PM on May 21, 2017 [23 favorites]

But one who has made a number of accurate, high-information-content predictions.
posted by Coventry at 5:30 PM on May 21, 2017

But one who has made a number of accurate, high-information-content predictions.

A significantly lesser number of accurate predictions than claims that are absolutely batshit insane.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 5:38 PM on May 21, 2017 [9 favorites]

A significantly lesser number of accurate predictions than claims that are absolutely batshit insane.

Says you, Ivan.

"And you're an Ivan, and you're an Ivan, everyone's an Ivan!"
posted by leotrotsky at 5:41 PM on May 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

We seriously need to nerf the presidency after this. This is too many people to get hurt by one asshole who doesn't have enough money to prop up his gigantic, fragile ego.
posted by middleclasstool at 5:41 PM on May 21, 2017 [11 favorites]

We are living in a reality that you can make "claims that are absolutely batshit insane" and a relatively large number of them turn out to be pretty damn accurate.
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:42 PM on May 21, 2017 [10 favorites]

We seriously need to nerf the presidency after this. This is too many people to get hurt by one asshole who doesn't have enough money to prop up his gigantic, fragile ego.

Best argument against an imperial Presidency is a mad emperor.
posted by leotrotsky at 5:43 PM on May 21, 2017 [10 favorites]

The alt-right's new legal strategy: Use "ancient common law" to remove public officials who enable Sanctuary City policies

Which sounds a whole lot like gold fringe flags and bloody finger print stamps but I'd love the take of some knowledgeable folks here. And presumably also that legal badger guy from before.
posted by Slackermagee at 5:44 PM on May 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

We are living in a reality that you can make "claims that are absolutely batshit insane" and a relatively large number of them turn out to be pretty damn accurate.

We are living in a reality that you can make "claims that are absolutely batshit insane" and a relatively large number of people will vote you into the presidency.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 5:51 PM on May 21, 2017 [15 favorites]

Which sounds a whole lot like gold fringe flags and bloody finger print stamps but I'd love the take of some knowledgeable folks here. And presumably also that legal badger guy from before.

Not a litigator, but Writs were generally superseded by the Rules of Civil Procedure. It's almost certainly woo.
posted by leotrotsky at 5:51 PM on May 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

Twitter founder Evan Williams no longer believes that the world would be a better place if there was a platform for everyone to freely speak and exchange ideas...
posted by Coventry at 5:55 PM on May 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

Wasn't "ancient common law" enforced with torches and pitchforks?

(I have previously said that Capitalism in its 'purest' form is Feudalism.)
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:56 PM on May 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

We seriously need to nerf the presidency after this.

What would be some good new rules? Just spitballin' here:

1) You must have completed at least one term as a member of the United States Senate or House of Representative, or as a state governor.
2) You must release your tax returns. No exceptions.
3) You must be assessed for dementia. You cannot be disqualified for your performance on this assessment, but the results will be made public.
4) You must reveal if you have ever been a member of, involved in, or in any way associated with, any organization, association, fund, foundation, party, club, society, or similar group in the United States or in any other location in the world. (If you think this sounds extreme, this wording comes straight off of page 12 of Form N-400, Application for Naturalization.)
5) In fact, screw it. Make every candidate fill out Form N-400 or something very much like it. If the procedures for becoming the president aren't at least as strenuous as those for becoming a United States citizen, there really isn't much of a point to this country at all.
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:57 PM on May 21, 2017 [83 favorites]

> Twitter founder Evan Williams no longer believes that the world would be a better place if there was a platform for everyone to freely speak and exchange ideas...

Yeah, the problem in that equation isn't the platform, it's the "everyone".
posted by tonycpsu at 5:58 PM on May 21, 2017 [11 favorites]

You must reveal if you have ever been a member of, involved in, or in any way associated with, any organization, association, fund, foundation, party, club, society, or similar group in the United States or in any other location in the world.

Or at least fill out and pass the qualifications for Top Secret access. When my dad passed, I spent a while going through his old papers, which included his 1958 application for clearance. It listed the rocketry club he'd joined in junior high.
posted by suelac at 6:00 PM on May 21, 2017 [11 favorites]

We seriously need to nerf the presidency after this. This is too many people to get hurt by one asshole who doesn't have enough money to prop up his gigantic, fragile ego.

I'm not sure that more power to the Judicial and Legislative branches is what the world needs.
posted by N-stoff at 6:00 PM on May 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

the problem in that equation isn't the platform, it's the "everyone".

I'm dismayed by it. It sounds like a shocking abandonment of liberal values.
posted by Coventry at 6:03 PM on May 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

I've got a proposal:

How about we do away with all these rules and traditions that basically boil down to "whatever the President wants to do is legal, because the President is doing it." I mean, I know that doesn't apply to everything, but this thing where he can declassify whatever he wants just by uttering it, and can pardon people before they've even been convicted and could conceivably pardon himself? Fuck a big bag of that noise. We need to be much, much more explicit about what the rules actually are instead of falling back on the "well, no one has ever done this before, so clearly no one will ever do it in the future, it's the norm!" No. Rules and regulations, write that shit down, and attach it to some consequences. Just because George Washington rejected being King doesn't mean we don't need some regs up in here.

I mean, what we really need is a legislative branch that's actually interested in legislating so we don't have to punt to executive if we want anything at all to get done. But, barring that, how about some rule of law?
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:04 PM on May 21, 2017 [23 favorites]

Use "ancient common law" to remove public officials who enable Sanctuary City policies

i'm not a lawyer, but this is bullshit - quo warranto seems to ask by which authority does one do something - but in the case of sanctuary cities, one is not doing something - no actual act is committed by the governmental official

"by what authority are you doing nothing?"

"i don't have authority - that's why i'm doing nothing!"

case closed
posted by pyramid termite at 6:08 PM on May 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

"The alt-right's new legal strategy: Use "ancient common law" to remove public officials who enable Sanctuary City policies. Which sounds a whole lot like gold fringe flags and bloody finger print stamps but I'd love the take of some knowledgeable folks here. And presumably also that legal badger guy from before."

This sounds like an eminently reasonable theory that is held by many fine lawyers, and although the courts have repeatedly ruled it's not the proper method for punishing official misconduct and can only be used to challenge whether an office holder is properly in office, the courts are clearly wrong on this, because "common law" means law held by the commoners, like the people and lawyers, and not by elitist judges trying to force their ivory tower "interpretations" of the "law" on the "country."
posted by Noted Moon Lawyer at 6:11 PM on May 21, 2017 [13 favorites]

How about we do away with all these rules and traditions that basically boil down to "whatever the President wants to do is legal, because the President is doing it."

That is sort of already the case, in that Congress can impeach the president for any reason they like. The situation we have here is that Congress is not doing its job, not that we need more rules.
posted by ryanrs at 6:13 PM on May 21, 2017 [6 favorites]

Jeebus, if President Barack Hussein Obama had posed for a picture like that Alex Jones would have gone deaf from the sound of his loudly throbbing erection.
posted by Cookiebastard at 6:13 PM on May 21, 2017 [37 favorites]

i'm not a lawyer, but this is bullshit - quo warranto seems to ask by which authority does one do something - but in the case of sanctuary cities, one is not doing something - no actual act is committed by the governmental official

What? No. In a sanctuary city the town executive is forbidding its law enforcement to assist in requests for help from the federal government in immigration matters. The obvious question is "what authority do you have to tell a local law enforcement officer to ignore federal law?"
posted by Talez at 6:13 PM on May 21, 2017

And let's be clear: you can't use the criminal code to constrain presidents because even setting aside the issue of pardons, you can be president from inside a prison cell. A prisoner can be elected president.
posted by ryanrs at 6:14 PM on May 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

I don't get the argument that the President is immune to charges that he illegally leaked information. Sure, he can declassify information, but that doesn't necessarily mean that everything he blabs is ipso facto declassified. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe the legislation does say that he is incapable of illegally leaking declassified information, but I would think that it says that he can declare information to be declassified. No declaration, no declassification.
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:15 PM on May 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

The M.O. of Mensch is, in the charitable assessment of actually respected independent journalist and blogger Marcy Wheeler, "taking reasonable observations, injecting just a bit of whack, and turning them into fairly unhinged theories." Wheeler unpacks how Mensch did just this with the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court and the FBI's surveillance of Trump’s associates: "Mensch took a great tip — that there had been a FISC order — and slapped it onto dodgy allegations floating around in ways that didn’t even make sense for FISA, much less the allegations themselves." She added the completely erroneous but headline-grabbing detail that Trump was personally trageted by the FISA warrant to her story, which caused it to get picked up by Breitbart, whereupon it was brought to Trump's attention. And we all know what happened after that.

Mensch should absolutely not be relied on as a journalist. Her recent completely whack story on her Patribotics blog is blathering that "the House Judiciary Committee is considering Articles of Impeachment against the President of the United States" and that "the Supreme Court notified Mr. Trump that the formal process of a case of impeachment against him was begun". That is some supermarket tabloid-grade bullshit, without the slightest idea of how the US legislative and judicial branches work. She's untrustworthy even as a rumormonger.
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:17 PM on May 21, 2017 [25 favorites]

The obvious question is "what authority do you have to tell a local law enforcement officer to ignore federal law?"

a local law enforcement officers has the authority to enforce local and state law - it's my understanding that one of the defenses of the sanctuary city concept is that local law enforcement does not have the authority to enforce federal law, that the federal government must ask for cooperation on a case by case basis
posted by pyramid termite at 6:19 PM on May 21, 2017 [6 favorites]

My understanding is it is precisely that anything he blabs is ipso facto declassified. Previous Presidents, because they weren't maniacs, took that to mean that they should go through procedures to declassify because just blabbing shit is clearly not a great idea, but the rule definitely pertains to blabbing in addition to declassifying through conventional means.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:19 PM on May 21, 2017 [6 favorites]

The great thing about this trip, if it boosts his confidence at all, is that he's extremely likely to come back and say all sorts of stupid stuff to the wrong people.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:22 PM on May 21, 2017 [10 favorites]

Bannon does not look comfortable ~~at this gathering~~ in his human suit.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:26 PM on May 21, 2017 [10 favorites]

Mueller needs to look into whether Trump asked anyone if there's any downsides to declassifying that information. A president is entitled to declassify something deliberately and consciously, after weighing pro's and con's; -- a random unplanned blathering through carelessness and incompetence was never intended to be covered by this and is grounds to start impeachment process.
posted by rainy at 6:32 PM on May 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

We seriously need to nerf the presidency after this.

Here are two changes that should not wait until after anything. Launch them tomorrow:

1. The President is NOT exempt from conflict of interest laws.

2. The president may not apply their pardon power to anyone they have appointed to office during their presidency, or who was part of their campaign staff leading up to the election. Yes, this would need a constitutional amendment.

Both are obvious, common sense protections. I can't imagine that even half of Republicans would oppose them.
posted by msalt at 6:35 PM on May 21, 2017 [19 favorites]

My understanding is it is precisely that anything he blabs is ipso facto declassified.

The governing precedent is George W Bush, Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, Scooter Libby, et al. in the matter of Victoria Plame's identity. The word to search on is "insta-declassification".
posted by scalefree at 6:36 PM on May 21, 2017 [6 favorites]

Both are obvious, common sense protections. I can't imagine that even half of Republicans would oppose them.

Baaaahaaahaaahaaahaaaa you poor innocent soul.
posted by Behemoth at 6:38 PM on May 21, 2017 [30 favorites]

You can tell when Trump hasn't done anything outrageous in a while because everyone starts posting their constitutional amendment wishlists.
posted by ryanrs at 6:39 PM on May 21, 2017 [44 favorites]

Pull up a chair, son. I've got several more excellent ideas.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:40 PM on May 21, 2017 [12 favorites]

What we need is a Roko's Basilisk like argument that can conclusively prove that at some point in the future a U.S. citizen will travel back in time to the Age of the Dinosaurs and trans-temporally use the Guano Islands Act to claim all unoccupied, ungoverned land on Earth as U.S. territory.

Ergo, all land on Earth has been subject to U.S. jurisdiction throughout human history and everyone everywhere obtained U.S. citizenship at birth via ius solis. Thus mooting the entire issue of immigration and sanctuary cities, except for Space Mexicans and actual Moon Lawyers such as our esteemed colleague.

We'll see your ancient common law and raise you this here ancienter common law.
posted by XMLicious at 6:44 PM on May 21, 2017 [8 favorites]

Has anyone suggested that the orb could lead to a "Freaky Friday" situation?
posted by drezdn at 7:26 PM on May 21, 2017 [22 favorites]

The governing precedent is George W Bush, Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, Scooter Libby, et al. in the matter of Victoria Plame's identity. The word to search on is "instal-declassification".

This provides a nifty solution to the EMAILS! crisis. A pity Obama didn't try it a year ago.

The president may not apply their pardon power to anyone they have appointed to office during their presidency, or who was part of their campaign staff leading up to the election. Yes, this would need a constitutional amendment.

The president may not apply their pardon power to anyone who was appointed to public office, who worked for a government office, or who was a paid or volunteer staff member at the time their crime was committed.

Yes, this means that there would be people who deserve a pardon who couldn't get one (a small-time drug dealer who worked for the state, say), but it would have prevented the Watergate pardons.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 7:28 PM on May 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

Today: President's daughter replaces him at Saudi Arabia speech, president's son-in-law issues statement on how foreign trip is going.
posted by scalefree at 7:30 PM on May 21, 2017 [14 favorites]

TPM: “Financial Crimes” And Why Trump is Right to Worry
posted by Chrysostom at 7:33 PM on May 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

Low Energy Don. Sad.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 7:35 PM on May 21, 2017 [6 favorites]

So, since things are slow...who'd win in a fight: Comey or Mueller?
posted by Don.Kinsayder at 7:39 PM on May 21, 2017

TPM: “Financial Crimes” And Why Trump is Right to Worry

The name to remember is FinCEN, the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network. Little known intelligence agency, part of Treasury. Spook accountants. A friend used to work there until he thought he had a lead on bin Laden & went to Afghanistan to follow it. Turns out he was wrong but it was a good effort. True fact.
posted by scalefree at 7:40 PM on May 21, 2017 [8 favorites]

So, since things are slow...who'd win in a fight: Comey or Mueller?

Mueller is 72 years old and Comey is like 6 foot fuckin 20.
posted by Justinian at 7:40 PM on May 21, 2017 [30 favorites]

Mueller probably has some Cape Fear shit inked on his back. Just saying.
posted by Don.Kinsayder at 7:42 PM on May 21, 2017 [13 favorites]

A tickle fight, obvs. (Sorry, everyone. I'll stop now.)
posted by Don.Kinsayder at 7:56 PM on May 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

Both are obvious, common sense protections. I can't imagine that even half of Republicans would oppose them.
Baaaahaaahaaahaaahaaaa you poor innocent soul.
I think the phrase is "Oh, my sweet summer child." But cowardice cuts both ways, and no one has any loyalty to Trump, perhaps not even his children. Did you notice how many Republicans complained about the appointment of the Special Counsel? Negative zero.

The smart money is on Trump not finishing his term, at this point. And Republican congresspeople know they will be up for relection post-Trump, needing to explain where they stood. Opposing the extension of conflict of interest laws to the president will not be a winning position.
posted by msalt at 7:59 PM on May 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

Okay, guys, rein in the chatting and riffing, this thread is mad unwieldy.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 8:02 PM on May 21, 2017 [12 favorites]

In a sanctuary city the town executive is forbidding its law enforcement to assist in requests for help from the federal government in immigration matters. The obvious question is "what authority do you have to tell a local law enforcement officer to ignore federal law?"

Please don't buy the GOP line on Sanctuary Cities. What it means is that they don't do ICE's job FOR them. They comply with federal law. When ICE/CBP says "here is a warrant for that person" they execute the warrant and hold that person. What they DON'T do is see a person without documentation and hold that person and inform ICE/CBP of that person's existence.

It would be like the police asking public schools to drug test all students and turn over the ones that fail. It's not the school's job to enforce drug policy and it's not local law enforcement's job to seek out and report immigration status. In my analogy, if a cop goes to a school with a warrant because they have evidence that someone there is using drugs, fine, the school complies. But they stay in their own lane because their priority is educating kids, not conducting a drug war.

The local cops' job is ensuring the safety of the community, not deporting people. Enforcing immigration law impedes their ability to ensure the safety of their communities.
posted by threeturtles at 8:07 PM on May 21, 2017 [114 favorites]

Shorter story: immigration is and always has been an exclusively federal responsibility. This whole issue started with right-wing attempts to involve local police in federal law enforcement.

The US has always maintained that separation precisely to a national police force directed by the president. The FBI and ATF have carefully limited powers and a long tradition of integrity (since Hoover died, anyway). Putting local police under the president's control has a lot bigger risks that unduly harsh and unfair immigration enforcement.

In fact, the sanctuary movement seriously needs to rebrand itself as a local control movement, using the same language conservatives have used to oppose federal aid for schools.
posted by msalt at 8:15 PM on May 21, 2017 [23 favorites]

President's daughter replaces him at Saudi Arabia speech, president's son-in-law issues statement on how foreign trip is going.

Slow poison?
posted by Coventry at 8:34 PM on May 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

Remember when people were talking about publishing all of the election threads in dead-tree form?
posted by escape from the potato planet at 8:45 PM on May 21, 2017 [13 favorites]

Some speech thoughts on the sectarianism that's just been unleashed:

The Atlantic: Trump Complies Perfectly With the Saudi Line

Until now, no one suspected Trump of being on the Sunni side. Most evidence suggested he was on the side of no Muslims at all. Now, having earned every single troy ounce of his gold necklace, he may as well be an honorary Sunni. Iran will respond by beating its chest and telling the world that its resistance to American hegemony is the only authentic revolution left. ISIS will point to the Saudi-U.S. friendship and say it demonstrates the corruption in the Sunni world. And the Saudis will know they’ve bought a close ally, as long as he stays unimpeached, or at least not flattered with even more flamboyantly tasteless panache by someone else.

Robert Fisk—The Independent: Donald Trump’s speech to the Muslim world was filled with hypocrisy and condescension

And when Trump said that “our friends will never question our support, and our enemies will never doubt our determination,” were his friends supposed to be the Saudis? Or the “Islamic world” – which should surely include Iran and Syria and Yemen – and the warring militias of Libya? As for “enemies”, was he talking about Isis? Or Russia? Or Syria? Or Iran, whose newly elected president surely wants peace with America? Or was he – as part of the Muslim world will conclude with good reason – declaring his friendship with the Sunni Muslims of the world and his enmity towards the Shia Muslims?

For that, ultimately, was what the Riyadh speech-fest was all about. Take this little quotation: “We will make decisions based on real-world outcomes – not inflexible ideology. We will be guided by the lessons of experience, not the confines of rigid thinking. And, wherever possible, we will seek gradual reforms – not sudden intervention.” Now let’s parse this little horror. “Decisions based on real-world outcomes” means brutal pragmatism. “Gradual reforms” indicates that the US will do nothing for human rights and take no steps to prevent crimes against humanity – unless they are committed by Iran, Syria, Iraqi Shiites, the Lebanese Shiite Hezbollah or Yemeni Shiite Houthis.

USA Today Editorial: In Saudi Arabia, Trump turns Sunni: Change of tone is welcome; favoring an Islam sect over another is not: Our view

And a broader trip wrap-up: Trump’s bizarre and un-American visit to Saudi Arabia

Before he moves on to Israel and then to Europe, before we are consumed by the next scandal and forget, here is a list, for the record, of just a few of the ways in which President Trump’s trip to Saudi Arabia was bizarre, unseemly, unethical and un-American. [6-point list follows]

Bonus orb thing: the Church of Satan (verified account) would like to clarify that "this is not a Satanic ritual."
posted by zachlipton at 8:47 PM on May 21, 2017 [62 favorites]

But the idea that she knows she's lying and the rest of the gang are the true believers lets her off the hook too much.

I don't think it does. If she knows she is doing evil, and does it knowingly, that is worse, not better.
posted by corb at 8:53 PM on May 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

President's daughter replaces him at Saudi Arabia speech

He's sending a woman to speak to an inevitably all-male Saudi audience...
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:02 PM on May 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

Here’s what’s up with Trump and that orb in Saudi Arabia

In the photos going around, Trump and King Salaman are at Saudia Arabia’s Global Center For Combatting Extremist Ideology, and the orb is actually a globe. Apparently, the act of these men putting their hands on the globe is just meant to be a basic gesture of unity.

posted by kirkaracha at 9:04 PM on May 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

and the orb is actually a globe. Apparently, the act of these men putting their hands on the globe is just meant to be a basic gesture of unity.

Later in the article:

Of course, if Trump returns to the United States and immediately installs his own shining globe in the center of the Oval Office, maybe then we should be a little concerned—.
posted by philip-random at 9:15 PM on May 21, 2017 [18 favorites]

For those wondering if Trump can pardon himself:

"Even if convicted, a sitting president might be able to pardon himself. A final reason that prosecuting a sitting president would be awkward is that, at least for federal charges, he could immediately grant himself a pardon. No one is sure whether a presidential self-pardon would be valid and there are good arguments on both sides. President Nixon considered pardoning himself, but decided against it. A president who tried to pardon himself would surely pay a huge political price. But any president who was politically weak enough that he was facing prosecution and impeachment (not necessarily in that order) would likely have nothing to lose. Of course, a president could try to pardon himself regardless of whether there was an active criminal investigation against him. But doing so could hasten his impeachment—which the pardon power cannot touch. Once again, impeachment saves the day."
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:58 PM on May 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

It's just a globe, nothing to be concerned about.
posted by ckape at 10:48 PM on May 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

If it's not too much of a derail, for the benefit of a non-US person following these threads avidly...what is the rationale for the Presidential power of pardon? Because from the outside, it seems...bizarre.

Legal process with juries and processes enshrined in law and many layers of judges? Check.

Ability to overturn that on a whim because someone's a mate? Check.

I understand that it can be used to right a wrong (Chelsea Manning) but the potential for abuse and the sheer arbitrariness of it...
posted by reynir at 11:22 PM on May 21, 2017

So in the United States we have three branches of government, and it was the goal of our founders that one branch would not prevail above the others. The power of the President to pardon criminals is a check of the executive branch on the power of the judicial branch. It doesn't seem bizarre to me, but I guess I grew up with it. What other power would you suggest us to give to the executive branch to check the judicial branch?
posted by Quonab at 11:35 PM on May 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

John Oliver threw away pretty much his entire show to do a 24 minute recap of the last week: Stupid Watergate ("for one week and one week only, the show Last Week Tonight is actually going to talk at some length about the last week, tonight"). It's nothing new if you're been following the insanity of all the most recent developments, but it's a well done description of what's happened and why we should care.
posted by zachlipton at 11:36 PM on May 21, 2017 [27 favorites]

Coventry: "the problem in that equation isn't the platform, it's the "everyone".

I'm dismayed by it. It sounds like a shocking abandonment of liberal values."

Liberal values don't scale. The idea of "absolute" freedom of speech (or whatever you'd call the American/liberal ideal) relies on the idea that the cost of emitting ideas is somewhat similar to the cost of receiving those ideas. But almost every human communication advance has been pointed towards dropping the cost of emission to now near nothing, while the cost of reception is still so high.

I mean, think about something like "time for some game theory." In another century, preparing the thoughts that go into the analogous essay would have taken weeks; publishing them would have gone through at least a few gatekeepers; there would have been an editing process, etc. etc. Much less a thousand years ago, when distributing these ideas would've required that each individual who was parroting them could understand and relay the idea, much less without severe modification.

But crucially the process of taking that kernel of information, turning it around in your brain, and deciding what to do with it remains fundamentally the same across years and years. The amount of man hours and column inches that we as a society have wasted on this memetic junk food that Eric Garland turned out is near criminal, frankly, but it's all due to the fact that the cost of information emission is so, so low.

This doesn't even factor in that the tearing down of religious, patriarchal, political, etc. norms (while often amazing for social justice) hasn't been replaced very well by sensible norms--a lot of people suckered by red pill, eg, are casting about in a role for themselves in a society that has cut ties with problematic gender norms (if you're willing to believe that they have any rationality in them, at least). These norms are useful for quick categorization and especially can be used to very quickly filter information. (terrible norm example: if a woman says it, ignore it. Boom! Suddenly you've reduced your comprehension cost by a lot.)

In my mind, we've built this incredibly communication mechanism in the internet while simultaneously reducing our fitness to exist on it and loudly demanding that no fixes ever be implemented. It's a system ripe for exploitation, which is what Russian nihilistics have given us an object demonstration of.

(This is my own, non-academic take on the topic, but if anyone knows any philosophers mining this vein, I would love to read them, as I've been turning this idea over in my head for forever it seems like.)

In any case, that's why I think the founder of twitter taking a step back and apologizing is really super heartening. I'd love to have more people start thinking that our communication platforms deserve to be hardened against bad actors, just like you put DDoS protection on any moderately important server on the internet.
posted by TypographicalError at 11:45 PM on May 21, 2017 [36 favorites]

"I'm automatically attracted to glowing globes of the Earth. I just start touching them. And when you're a star they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab 'em by the poles. You can do anything."
posted by Effigy2000 at 11:59 PM on May 21, 2017 [11 favorites]

Reynir, lots of countries (including e.g. The UK and Australia) have the idea of a pardon built into or on top of their juridical laws. There are different reasons for this – sometimes it's because there are miscarriages of justice that can't be corrected in the court system; otherwise it's an extraordinary reward for service to the State. In the USA most pardons seem to be granted as a remedy for its draconian legal system and the disabilities that attach to conviction. I'm glad most of those people get pardoned, but I'd rather have the system itself made less punitive.
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:00 AM on May 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

Wow, Trump just hasn't been the same since he touched that orb
posted by scalefree at 12:24 AM on May 22, 2017 [22 favorites]

His Twitter header just changed to: "I stand before you as a representative of the American People, to deliver a message of friendship and hope. That is why I chose to make my first foreign visit a trip to the heart of the Muslim world, to the nation that serves as custodian of the two holiest sites in the Islamic Faith."
posted by christopherious at 12:30 AM on May 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

Guys, remember, even if you're just linking to a joke on Twitter, remember the real/fake tags. Things are crazy around here as it is.
posted by suburbanbeatnik at 12:43 AM on May 22, 2017 [23 favorites]

I understand that it can be used to right a wrong (Chelsea Manning) but the potential for abuse and the sheer arbitrariness of it...

Chelsea Manning wasn't pardoned; her sentence was commuted - meaning Obama believed she had been punished long enough and set her free, but she is still considered guilty. Obama also commuted the sentences of hundreds of people in prison for minor drug offenses, thus freeing up some space in the prison system.

The DoJ has a whole list of pardons and commutations, but it doesn't get into the rationals at all. There's apparently a whole office whose job is to receive petitions for clemency and decide what should be done.

Former Deputy Attorney General James M. Cole said: “For our criminal justice system to be effective, it needs to not only be fair; but it also must be perceived as being fair. These older, stringent punishments that are out of line with sentences imposed under today’s laws erode people’s confidence in our criminal justice system. I am confident that this initiative will go far to promote the most fundamental of American ideals - equal justice under law.”

There's also a cool page of stats from the Clemency office since William McKinley - Obama really knocked it out of the ballpark with commutations; 1,715 total, versus 212 pardons.
posted by Deoridhe at 2:19 AM on May 22, 2017 [7 favorites]

Trump Isn't the President Israel Was Hoping For
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:30 AM on May 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

Reading that Atlantic article, "Trump Isn't the President Israel Was Hoping For" I observe:

The Palestinians have presented Trump with an economic wish list, including new industrial zones and a resort on the Dead Sea.

OMFG. "a resort". the well-of-outrage runs dry early on a Monday.
posted by mikelieman at 4:06 AM on May 22, 2017 [5 favorites]

Trump Isn't the President Israel Was Hoping For

I'm genuinely astonished that, for anybody who wasn't hoping for a dangerous, moronic asshole, there was any hope Trump would be anything other than what he obviously has been his entire life. I mean I guess you hope the handbasket suddenly sprouts wings and becomes a unicorn farm on a cloud of cotton candy...
posted by Rykey at 4:08 AM on May 22, 2017 [25 favorites]

Also, anybody know if a transcript of that no-American-press-allowed news conference in SA has been dropped anywhere?
posted by Rykey at 4:15 AM on May 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

Never mind that Trump has all but given Putin two thumbs up to arm pro-Assad fighters including Hezbollah. Once (if?) the conflict in Syria dies down they're going to turn their attention back to Israel and the next dust up on the Lebanese border is going to be a lot more deadly.
posted by PenDevil at 4:18 AM on May 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

White House Moves to Block Ethics Inquiry Into Ex-Lobbyists on Payroll: The Trump administration, in a significant escalation of its clash with the government’s top ethics watchdog, has moved to block an effort to disclose the names of former lobbyists who have been granted waivers to work in the White House or federal agencies.

The latest conflict came in recent days when the White House, in a highly unusual move, sent a letter to Walter M. Shaub Jr., the head of the Office of Government Ethics, asking him to withdraw a request he had sent to every federal agency for copies of the waivers. In the letter, the administration challenged his legal authority to demand the information.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:21 AM on May 22, 2017 [20 favorites]

WHY SALLY YATES STOOD UP TO TRUMP - The former acting Attorney General reflects on the F.B.I., Michael Flynn, and how the President ended her career at the Justice Department.

by Ryan Lizza from the New Yorker, who was with Blackmon interviewing Yates
posted by and they trembled before her fury at 4:29 AM on May 22, 2017 [42 favorites]

OMFG. "a resort". the well-of-outrage runs dry early on a Monday.

How so?
posted by Mister Bijou at 4:44 AM on May 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

Trump, in Israel, a few minutes ago:"We just got back from the Middle East"
posted by Yowser at 5:12 AM on May 22, 2017 [38 favorites]

Maybe this trip is a way for him to get completely sick and exhausted,which provides cover for him to step down on account of fatigue.
posted by ian1977 at 5:18 AM on May 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

OMFG. "a resort". the well-of-outrage runs dry early on a Monday.

Well, who do we know who is in the business of building hotels, resorts, and golf courses?
posted by mikelieman at 5:35 AM on May 22, 2017 [16 favorites]

Thanks! Maybe the Palestinians could thereafter give him a medal too!
posted by Mister Bijou at 5:39 AM on May 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

Driving into work this morning, XM's POTUS channel had on a truly execrable GOP pundit pushing what I assume is the new orthodoxy; to wit: the real problem preventing the Trump administration from enacting its agenda is that the Republican party is a big tent party, and they've always had difficulty with party unity, and they're very prone to circular firing squads.

I guess when all else fails, fall back on denying reality yet again?
posted by tocts at 5:40 AM on May 22, 2017 [5 favorites]

maybe they gave Trump one of those fidgety spinner things to keep him quiet.
posted by angrycat at 5:49 AM on May 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

A couple deleted; let's skip the haha-funny death-war-violence jokes, please? And just ~generally~ filling this thread up with jokes and wisecracks makes it tough for people hoping to get news updates, and makes the thread super hard to load and eventually unusable. Not that we've ever mentioned this before or anything.
posted by taz (staff) at 5:54 AM on May 22, 2017 [18 favorites]

CNN: How Donald Trump is benefiting from 'Donald Trump fatigue'

What happens with Trump is that he is continually flooding the zone with news -- whether its his tweets, his public pronouncements or the amazing reporting going on about his administration. There are so many storylines -- Russia, Comey, staff drama, his Twitter account, to name a few -- that they all sort of blend together in one jumble, even for people who follow this stuff very closely.

Call it "Trump fatigue." There's just so much any one person can consume as it relates to the President. And it's far less than the amount that Trump puts out there on a daily, weekly or monthly basis.

posted by ZeusHumms at 6:16 AM on May 22, 2017 [7 favorites]

@brianklaas: Wilbur Ross touts the lack of protests in Saudi Arabia during Trump's visit (maybe it's because protesters are jailed & sometimes beheaded?)
posted by zombieflanders at 6:27 AM on May 22, 2017 [22 favorites]

Wilbur Ross touts the lack of protests...

Public demonstrations or any public act of dissent are forbidden. In April 2011, during the 2011–2012 Saudi Arabian protests, the kingdom made it a crime to publish any criticism harming the reputation of government or religious leaders, or which harms the interests of the state.
posted by PenDevil at 6:32 AM on May 22, 2017 [31 favorites]

David Neiwert: "With DHS Position, Clarke Would Be the First ‘Patriot’ Leader to Hold a Federal Post." Snippet: "This would be a remarkable position for someone long affiliated with Richard Mack’s extremist Patriot organization, the Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association, to hold. Among the core tenets of CSPOA dogma is the far-right “constitutionalist” belief that sheriffs represent the highest law of the land, and are capable of overturning or ignoring federal laws within their own jurisdictions. Moreover, [Milwaukee County Sheriff David] Clarke's history of incendiary remarks includes his advocacy of "a second American revolution.""
posted by MonkeyToes at 6:39 AM on May 22, 2017 [12 favorites]

a 24 minute recap of the last week: Stupid Watergate

Wow, just wow. To see it all laid out like that makes me dizzy. It's not even 10 am and I think I need a nap.
posted by photoslob at 6:43 AM on May 22, 2017 [8 favorites]

I had always thought that Clarke was in the deep south, probably on the border between America and Mexico.

To find out that he worked out of Milwaukee is just... I have no words.
posted by Yowser at 6:44 AM on May 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

Nikki Haley: 'We absolutely need' Mueller's Russia investigation:

“I think we absolutely need the investigation,” she told NBC’s “Today” show. “I think that all these questions need to be answered so that the administration can get back to work.”
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:00 AM on May 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

what is the rationale for the Presidential power of pardon?

To deal with situations where correct application of the law results in injustice. Either because the law itself is unjust, or because this particular correct application was unjust.

The US constitution invests that power in a single person, in a nearly uncontrollable manner, because it was written in 1787, because it was a "translation" of a royal prerogative, and because it hasn't ever been remotely important enough to amend. Some US states deal with pardons and reprieves in a more "rationalized" manner. in Texas, there's a Board of Pardons and Paroles that tl;dr creates lists of people eligible for pardons, and the governor can pardon people on that list if (s)he wants to. But the governor can't pardon anyone who doesn't appear on the Board's list.

Because from the outside, it seems...bizarre.

It shouldn't. The UK has pretty much the same power. Like lots of things in the UK, it's notionally a personal power of the monarch but actually exercised by different ministers in different areas or circumstances. But in the shorthand for England and Wales: if Elizabeth Truss wants you to get a pardon, you get one, and if she doesn't, you don't.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:01 AM on May 22, 2017 [10 favorites]

Flynn takes the 5th! (NY Post link)

Isn't this the same subpoena that he already indicated he wasn't going to honor? This seems like nothing but his lawyers saying he's not coming because all he would do is invoke the 5th. It seems consistent with earlier reported efforts to wrangle an immunity deal.
posted by phearlez at 7:08 AM on May 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

Some good news for voting rights out of SCOTUS, which has agreed with a lower court that NC's gerrymandering was unconstitutional on racist grounds.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:09 AM on May 22, 2017 [61 favorites]

This is more of a question of optics I guess, but aren't you compelled to show up for a subpoena if you're at all able to do so? If he wants to plead the 5th, doesn't he need to show up and actually say that in the committee? Or have his lawyer say it in his stead?

It was for producing documents. You can reply with the 5th if the government tries to go on a fishing expedition. He's probably using it as a bargaining chip because Congress can only compel once they give him immunity.
posted by Talez at 7:27 AM on May 22, 2017

Some good news for voting rights out of SCOTUS, which has agreed with a lower court that NC's gerrymandering was unconstitutional on racist grounds.

5-3 with Thomas in the majority. Roberts dissents because it's literally his life's work to reinstate Jim Crow as de jure rather than just de facto.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:27 AM on May 22, 2017 [32 favorites]

Salon: Mr. Complicit - "Mike Pence isn’t avoiding Trump’s misconduct. He’s abetting it"

In the past week, as reports of Watergate-level misconduct have raised the possibility of President Trump’s impeachment, eyes have turned toward Mike Pence, the man who would succeed him. Pence bills himself as an upstanding Christian stuck in a spiraling situation not of his making. Anonymous flacks are trying to distance the vice president from the administration’s collapse. They say Pence was “kept in the dark” about the treacherous shenanigans of former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn. A source “close to the administration,” and apparently quite close to Pence, tells NBC News that there’s a suspicious “pattern”: In one scandal after another, Pence “was never, either intentionally or unintentionally, made aware of the facts.”

TalkingPointsMemo: What Did The Vice President Not Know And When Did He Not Know It?

Pence and his allies have repeatedly asserted that was not in the loop, not informed, not present, or otherwise not implicated in the various controversies.

...

But the narrative that Pence’s hands are clean strains credulity. In some cases, it is contradicted outright by reports and documents establishing that the Vice President was in fact involved in the key moments that have defined the first four months of the Trump administration.

posted by ZeusHumms at 7:33 AM on May 22, 2017 [23 favorites]

NB if you are using mefi threads to check for news updates: oh golly

If zachlipton and melissasaurus started a news service, I would subscribe.
posted by Coventry at 7:35 AM on May 22, 2017 [52 favorites]

Some good news for voting rights out of SCOTUS, which has agreed with a lower court that NC's gerrymandering was unconstitutional on racist grounds.

The dissent really highlights why we need to root out gerrymandering at the constitutional amendment level, because it's fucked up that members of the Supreme Court get to say with a straight face essentially "but this might just be a partisan gerrymander and those are totally fine!" and be... kinda correct, on a technicality. In the eyes of the law, partisan gerrymandering is fine, but it's the flimsiest of excuses for racial gerrymandering (one and the same in practice) and, even if it wasn't, it's stacking the deck. It's been a problem the whole time we've had a country and it needs to go. At the amendment level so shitty Supreme Court justices don't have a leg to stand on.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:38 AM on May 22, 2017 [34 favorites]

In the eyes of the law, partisan gerrymandering is fine, but it's the flimsiest of excuses for racial gerrymandering (one and the same in practice) and, even if it wasn't, it's stacking the deck.

McCleskey v. Kemp. Keep killing black people so long as you don't have them on tape conspiring to kill black people.
posted by Talez at 7:48 AM on May 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

Mike Pence seems to be benefiting from Trump Fatigue bigly.
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:49 AM on May 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

5-3 with Thomas in the majority. Roberts dissents because it's literally his life's work to reinstate Jim Crow as de jure rather than just de facto.

Kennedy's already on record having serious issues with gerrymandering.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:50 AM on May 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

5-3 with Thomas in the majority.

I'm looking out the window and what I thought was rain is possibly teeny tiny little piglets. Thomas in the majority with the liberals! I am amazed.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:51 AM on May 22, 2017 [13 favorites]

Trump Isn't the President Israel Was Hoping For

This bit: "As ever, the crisis stems from Netanyahu's conservatism—a prime minister known as “Mr. Status Quo” does not want to take dramatic steps in the occupied territories. Though he remains skeptical of a two-state solution, he fears the diplomatic consequences of a major push to expand settlements." strikes me more as wishful thinking than accurate reporting.

There are approximately 100 Israeli settlements in the West Bank. The largest of these used to be Amona, which housed around 2000 Israelis. It was vacated in early February after an order by the Israeli Supreme Court declared it illegal, in a two day process that turned violent on the last day, as 40 remaining families had to be forcibly removed.

Where did those Amona settlers go? Ofra -- another existing Settlement.

Netanyahu announced that he would "compensate" the Amona settlers by building them a new Settlement, with the establishment of a committee to create a new 3000 unit Settlement in Judea and Samaria. That would be the first, new government-authorized settlement in the West Bank since Revava was established in 1991. Netanyahu also pledged to add 5,500 new housing units in existing settlements throughout the West Bank. An initial 2000 will be added within months with the rest to follow. This Jpost article lists the actual numbers as approximately 3000 new housing units in existing Settlements rather than 5500.

To try and do an end run around the Supreme Court, the Knesset then passed a law retroactively legalizing all unauthorized West Bank settlement outposts built on private Palestinian land. Palestinian landowners were promised compensation. The law is an attempt to protect the Settlements from further Supreme Court evacuation orders.

Expanding the Settlements may make Netanyahu nervous, but that hasn't stopped Israel from announcing plans to do so.
posted by zarq at 7:54 AM on May 22, 2017 [15 favorites]

Among the core tenets of CSPOA dogma is the far-right “constitutionalist” belief that sheriffs represent the highest law of the land, and are capable of overturning or ignoring federal laws within their own jurisdictions.

I'm assuming this does not extend to Sheriffs in Sanctuary Cities?
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:54 AM on May 22, 2017 [23 favorites]

I just skimmed the dissent and it actually isn't bad in that way, it seems to just be bad in trying to stick to this hard liner position that the court should be process nazis about past precedent even if it means letting things that are otherwise clearly wrong stand. It actually is a dissent in part and agreement in part.

The dissent seems to revolve around a complaint that the petitioners didn't provide an alternative better map in their challenge. To me this sounds like a pretty bullshit requirement to bad action; a "well if you think you can do better, go ahead!" sort of requirement. But a case a dozen years ago or so apparently set this precedent and the three stooges think... eff it, let me reopen the PDF and quote...

A precedent of this Court should not be treated like a disposable household item—say, a paper plate or napkin— to be used once and then tossed in the trash. But that is what the Court does today in its decision regarding North Carolina’s 12th Congressional District: The Court junks a rule adopted in a prior, remarkably similar challenge to this very same congressional district.

That starts on p46 and continues. I only skimmed past the first few pages of it because it seemed reaching to me. The majority opinion addresses this question, saying they don't think this is a precedent that requires it always be provided and that didn't seem unreasonable. But as should be obvious from above, I think it's sort of a dopey thing to say should always be done. Fix your own shit, fuckers, why should we have to do the labor for you just because you did a shitty job?

Whether this is disingenuous bullshit you can decide for yourself. I feel confident I know what this room is gonna say about it :) But I think an argument can be made it's less an effort at Jim Crow specifically than it is just consistent with the court's conservative members never seeing an authority position they wouldn't bend over backwards to defend. As I recall there's a Scalia opinion where he was strident that it was perfectly cool to refuse to examine new evidence and just execute someone who might be innocent rather than go outside of standard process.
posted by phearlez at 7:56 AM on May 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

Another stone to weigh down the GOP: As GOP Tarries On Health Bill, Funding For Children's Health Languishes (NPR May 22, 2017)

One of the immediate casualties [in the uncertainty in health care law] is the renewal of the Children's Health Insurance Program. CHIP covers just under 9 million children in low- and moderate-income families, at a cost of about $15 billion a year.

Funding for CHIP does not technically end until Sept. 30, but it is already too late for states to plan their budgets effectively. They needed to know about future funding while their legislatures were still in session, but, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures, the local lawmakers have already adjourned for the year in more than half of the states.

Fffuuuu....
posted by filthy light thief at 7:57 AM on May 22, 2017 [20 favorites]

Maybe this trip is a way for him to get completely sick and exhausted,which provides cover for him to step down on account of fatigue.

My money is still on the "spins up some health-related reason to resign once he gets miserable enough/impeachment looks like enough of a possibility" as the way this ends. The only barrier here is getting him to lie about something that might be wrong with him, because that makes him look weak. But it's easier to do that than admit he made a wrong decision or said a wrong thing or didn't actually think he'd ever win the Presidency and actually didn't want the job at all, but shit now he's stuck here and it super sucks.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:00 AM on May 22, 2017 [6 favorites]

So you're saying they don't want to fund CHIP?? It's one of Hillary Clinton's biggest professional accomplishments, so...yeah, sounds typical for the Republicans.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:00 AM on May 22, 2017 [19 favorites]

From Just Security: "Why Tillerson’s Degradation of Human Rights Shouldn’t–and Can’t Yet–be Executive Branch Policy." Snippet: "What Tillerson seems to be saying is that the State Department is taking human rights off the table. Apparently it views the pursuit of this policy objective as an inevitable obstacle to our security and economic interests. This is a radical departure from the bipartisan consensus that has forged around these issues, a consensus that emerged after World War II and was rooted in the failure to stop Adolph Hitler’s genocidal policies that led to the Holocaust.

"It is unclear whether Tillerson is fully aware that he is bound by PD-30 ["The first line of this policy pronouncement states: “It shall be a major objective of U.S. foreign policy to promote the observance of human rights throughout the world.”]"
posted by MonkeyToes at 8:01 AM on May 22, 2017 [15 favorites]

Also, is anyone working on a new post? We have more than 3,300 comments at this point, which is making typing in a comment on a desktop PC oddly reminiscent of waiting for a webpage to load on a modem.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:03 AM on May 22, 2017 [11 favorites]

Lotta optimism here about Trump stepping down. Personally I don't see it. At best I think he'd find a way to talk big about why he's not running for re-election but is instead throwing his support behind person X, who he could then go around campaigning for so he can basically talk about himself to adoring crowds. Maybe he'd broker some sort of backroom deal to bail out to avoid impeachment but he's never settled his many lawsuits before he dragged them out and talked big for a while. I'm not sure he'd do a parallel in politics since he can't get the sort of non-disclosure out of that he can in a settlement.

Doesn't mean it couldn't happen; grodd knows the man has no consistency about much of anything. But I wouldn't personally wager on any of it.
posted by phearlez at 8:06 AM on May 22, 2017 [6 favorites]

Excommunicated Cardinal: So you're saying they don't want to fund CHIP?? It's one of Hillary Clinton's biggest professional accomplishments, so...yeah, sounds typical for the Republicans.

Well, that may be a plan, but it's not the plan. Uncertainty in the CHIP budget means that states can't accurately budget for Federal funds to support State efforts and distributions, and that sort of state budgeting happens in legislative sessions, many of which have already ended for the year.

I short: it's easy to throw everything into chaos by simply not doing your job, when your job is the first in a series of steps.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:06 AM on May 22, 2017 [9 favorites]

from the "it's the little things" dept.:

Press statement @WhiteHouse says 1 goals of @POTUS Israel trip is "promote the possibility of lasting peach"
-- Matthew Levitt
posted by murphy slaw at 8:07 AM on May 22, 2017 [51 favorites]

Also, is anyone working on a new post? We have more than 3,300 comments at this point, which is making typing in a comment on a desktop PC oddly reminiscent of waiting for a webpage to load on a modem.

The mods should just create a new post every Monday titled TRUMP (cont.)

They could probably automate it.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:07 AM on May 22, 2017 [9 favorites]

Holy shitsnacks. The Lizza article linked above makes it clear that:

1. Yates found out about the travel ban while going to the airport literally hours after personally briefing the White House on Flynn.
2. She found out from her deputy.
3. Who found out from seeing it in news articles online.
4. Because the part of the Justice Department working with the White House on it had been specifically instructed not to tell her.
5. And consequently left in the dark even the Trump aide assigned to work with Yates's office.
6. And the fucking acting Attorney General of the United states ends up reading the travel ban on an iPad at a charity fundraiser.

I think I knew steps 4 and 5 before, but seeing it laid out like this is wild. And the detail about her finding out on the way to the airport right after talking to the White House about Flynn? And then reading the order for the first time on a fucking iPad while in black tie gear for a fancy fundraiser?

Like, it really gives context for why Yates noped out in such a strong, public way. The strength of the arguments against the travel ban aside (and they're obvious to a first semester law student, let alone a career prosecutor who would be tasked with enforcing the thing), just imagine the WTF WTF WTF WTF THE WALLPAPER IS ON FUCKING FIRE JESUS FUCKING CHRIST GET THE FUCK OUT WHO CARES ALL REMAINING BRIDGES HAVE DYNAMITE STRAPPED TO THE STRUCFTURAL SUPPORTS you'd feel with an up-close and personal view like that of not one, but two great dumpster fires of the Trump Administration.

Especially, y'know. If one of the dumpster fires was such a dumpster fire specifically because they'd tried to route it around you. Personally.
posted by joyceanmachine at 8:07 AM on May 22, 2017 [106 favorites]

Coming up with bullshit process arguments to cover for the effect of reinstating Jim Crow is Roberts' specailty. That's exactly what Shelby County did too. They choose him because he can make something sound reasonable, when the effects are pure Republican partisanship nearly 100% of the time.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:09 AM on May 22, 2017 [12 favorites]

Also, I believe it's established precedent that the creation of a new post leads to a new scandal not covered in the post within 24 hours. Do it for America.
posted by Behemoth at 8:09 AM on May 22, 2017 [29 favorites]

Coming up with bullshit process arguments to cover for the effect of reinstating Jim Crow is Roberts' specailty. That's exactly what Shelby County did too. They choose him because he can make something sound reasonable, when the effects are pure Republican partisanship nearly 100% of the time.

Roberts is the David Brooks of SCOTUS justices.
posted by Gelatin at 8:10 AM on May 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

Press statement @WhiteHouse says 1 goals of @POTUS Israel trip is "promote the possibility of lasting peach"

WAR IS PEACH
FREEDOM IS STRAWBERRY
IGNORANCE IS GRAPE
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:14 AM on May 22, 2017 [128 favorites]

4. Because the part of the Justice Department working with the White House on it had been specifically instructed not to tell her.
5. And consequently left in the dark even the Trump aide assigned to work with Yates office.

It's hysterical - in both the funny and insane ways of interpreting the word - that they hire people to be their little spies to tell them what other people are doing and then they don't trust those spies either. There is nothing these folks do that they don't do in a way that betrays how fucking shady they are.
posted by phearlez at 8:14 AM on May 22, 2017 [7 favorites]

Need to correct the numbers in my last comment:

There were around 200 people in Amona, not 2000. Ofra is one of the largest (and incidentally oldest) settlements. Amona was an offshoot of that before it was destroyed.
posted by zarq at 8:14 AM on May 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

Press statement @WhiteHouse says 1 goals of @POTUS Israel trip is "promote the possibility of lasting peach"

My god. If Trump can really deliver peaches that are ripe and perfect all year round we may indeed be stuck with a second term.
posted by contraption at 8:15 AM on May 22, 2017 [10 favorites]

"i can eat a peach for hours." -@whitehouse [fake]
posted by entropicamericana at 8:16 AM on May 22, 2017 [11 favorites]

Press statement @WhiteHouse says 1 goals of @POTUS Israel trip is "promote the possibility of lasting peach"

James Comey and the Giant Peach?

Trump looks positively exhausted right now. He and Netanyahu just had a photo opp, and Trump looks like he hasn't slept in days. Just dead-eyed, and he's barely a third of the way into his itinerary.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 8:16 AM on May 22, 2017 [5 favorites]

Press statement @WhiteHouse says 1 goals of @POTUS Israel trip is "promote the possibility of lasting peach"

A Freudian slip, perhaps.
posted by zarq at 8:18 AM on May 22, 2017 [8 favorites]

‘Discrimination Sunday’: Texas rushes to pass transgender ‘bathroom bill’ and measure allowing bias in adoptions, foster care
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:20 AM on May 22, 2017 [6 favorites]

Somebody is going to do it, so it might as well be me:

Peaches come from a can,
They were put there by a man
In a factory downtown
If I had my little way,
I'd eat peaches every day
Sun-soakin' bulges in the shade

- The Presidents of the United States of America
posted by diogenes at 8:20 AM on May 22, 2017 [22 favorites]

There are enough different stories to follow and new news coming out that these threads could probably have their own sub-site. Politics.Metafilter.com.

Then these wouldn't have to be one mega thread and can be split out into smaller threads.

Is that something that's been discussed? I did a quick search on Metatalk and didn't see it but it wasn't a thorough search. Is it worth someone starting a MeTa thread about?
posted by VTX at 8:21 AM on May 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

IGNORANCE IS GRAPE

Shouldn't ignorance be orange?
posted by Talez at 8:21 AM on May 22, 2017 [5 favorites]

AP: Trump says he never mentioned Israel in Oval Office meeting with Russian diplomats. [real] Only mentioned peaches. [fake]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:22 AM on May 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

It's been talked about, VTX. It's a resource-heavy proposition, to put it mildly.
posted by Sweetdefenestration at 8:23 AM on May 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

There are enough different stories to follow and new news coming out that these threads could probably have their own sub-site. Politics.Metafilter.com.

Then these wouldn't have to be one mega thread and can be split out into smaller threads.

Is that something that's been discussed? I did a quick search on Metatalk and didn't see it but it wasn't a thorough search. Is it worth someone starting a MeTa thread about?

nope, pretty sure it's never come up before now.
posted by some loser at 8:23 AM on May 22, 2017 [8 favorites]

AP: Trump says he never mentioned Israel in Oval Office meeting with Russian diplomats.

Which is funny because:

1) No one ever said he did
2) He just confirmed that Israel was the source who got burned
3) He once again admits to doing the thing his own administration keeps on trying to say he didn't do
posted by zombieflanders at 8:25 AM on May 22, 2017 [82 favorites]

also 4) this probably means he mentioned Israel.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:26 AM on May 22, 2017 [44 favorites]

from the "the earth recoils from his touch" dept:

Sinkhole opens outside Trump’s Mar-a-Lago in Palm Beach

(it's only 4 ft. in diameter now but if we all believe in it very hard…)
posted by murphy slaw at 8:26 AM on May 22, 2017 [64 favorites]

Trump looks positively exhausted right now. He and Netanyahu just had a photo opp, and Trump looks like he hasn't slept in days. Just dead-eyed, and he's barely a third of the way into his itinerary.

This presidency is a team effort not even 6 months into it, he can barely make it through a day and Jared and Ivanka are taking over actual roles of the office. If he last 4 years it'll be Weekend at the Trumps by 2020.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:26 AM on May 22, 2017 [12 favorites]

AP: Trump says he never mentioned Israel in Oval Office meeting with Russian diplomats.

In his defense, the problem with what he did say is probably hard to grasp without a working knowledge of how deduction or inference work.
posted by diogenes at 8:28 AM on May 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

Sinkhole opens outside Trump’s Mar-a-Lago in Palm Beach

Soon, the glowing orb will emerge.
posted by mikepop at 8:30 AM on May 22, 2017 [28 favorites]

Your Handy Field Guide to the Many Factions of the Far Right, From the Proud Boys to Identity Evropa.

Less central to their beliefs but mostly just hilarious, their name comes from an Aladdin song called “Proud of Your Boy.”

posted by Buntix at 8:31 AM on May 22, 2017 [9 favorites]

Trump looks positively exhausted right now. He and Netanyahu just had a photo opp, and Trump looks like he hasn't slept in days. Just dead-eyed, and he's barely a third of the way into his itinerary.

it is mind-boggling how much predictive power Trump's Mirror has
posted by murphy slaw at 8:32 AM on May 22, 2017 [16 favorites]

At best I think he'd find a way to talk big about why he's not running for re-election but is instead throwing his support behind person X,

@FutureDonaldTrump: "Delivered on all my promises and made America great again, so don't need a 2nd term. Looking forward to spend more time with my wife, Ivanka, and the kids."
posted by sour cream at 8:33 AM on May 22, 2017 [7 favorites]

This presidency is a team effort not even 6 months into it

Very reasonable snark/complaints of nepotism aside, all Presidencies are team efforts. The gig is a huge effort with a lot of moving parts far beyond the scope of a single person to coordinate themselves. The fact that this administration can't manage to staff a team that actually operates with the coordination of people doing the three-legged race at a company picnic is a huge deal. I think overall we're better off with these chumps unable to run an operation; the things it keeps them from doing seem to overall be better than the things it possibly causes them to fuck up, but it's not impossible it'll go the other way in the future.

But on the hypocrisy front, I am sure all of us who were adults during the Clinton administration remember the constant screaming about HRC being this unelected participant in governance and the Clinton administration saying hey look, you get two for the price of one as a selling point. I guess the mistake was having the freebie worker be someone smart and competent rather than a barely successful purse & jewelry huckster.
posted by phearlez at 8:33 AM on May 22, 2017 [17 favorites]

Your Handy Field Guide to the Many Factions of the Far Right, From the Proud Boys to Identity Evropa.

jesus christ, dapper nazi richard spencer is wearing a tie, shirt, vest and jacket that are at total war with each other. "dapper" has no meaning anymore, it's just shorthand for "not wearing cargo shorts and a tank top".
posted by murphy slaw at 8:36 AM on May 22, 2017 [13 favorites]

@FutureDonaldTrump: "Delivered on all my promises and made America great again, so don't need a 2nd term. Looking forward to spend more time with my wife, Ivanka, and the kids."

Ambiguous grammar A+
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:37 AM on May 22, 2017 [71 favorites]

Rather than new threads on the blue, we should just have a new page, an Orange page of course, for Political Opinion, call it PooFi.
posted by OHenryPacey at 8:40 AM on May 22, 2017 [8 favorites]

Very reasonable snark/complaints of nepotism aside, all Presidencies are team efforts.

No, running the Executive Branch is a team effort, but being President of the United States is the responsibility of exactly one person. That's because we have two centuries of precedent and government-building that have made it possible for one person to do all the things we've assigned (in law and in custom) to the President. Trump and his people have decided that many of those things are dumb, and that many of the things that have previously been kept off the President's desk are too important to leave to other people, and the result is that the Presidency -- that set of tasks that we have determined to be so important to the Republic that we can only trust them to the person for whom (sort of) most of us voted (indirectly) for -- is now a team effort.

Because that 225-plus years of experience is less important than one moron's ego, especially when that moron is propped up by people who want to throw that 225-plus years of experience and precedent and learning out the window in favor of big tax cuts and showing uppity minorities where they belong.
posted by Etrigan at 8:40 AM on May 22, 2017 [21 favorites]

Very reasonable snark/complaints of nepotism aside, all Presidencies are team efforts. The gig is a huge effort with a lot of moving parts far beyond the scope of a single person to coordinate themselves.

Having competent advisers doing their jobs is not really the same thing as swapping out the President for his daughter to give a presidential speech.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:40 AM on May 22, 2017 [32 favorites]

Trump looks positively exhausted right now. He and Netanyahu just had a photo opp, and Trump looks like he hasn't slept in days. Just dead-eyed, and he's barely a third of the way into his itinerary.

it is mind-boggling how much predictive power Trump's Mirror has

Are there any Trump tweets about his enemies getting swallowed by a gaping hellmouth and transported to a Boschian nightmare full of untold suffering and despair?

Probably not. There's way too many big words.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:42 AM on May 22, 2017 [5 favorites]

> Rather than new threads on the blue, we should just have a new page, an Orange page of course, for Political Opinion, call it PooFi.

Orange is already taken by IRL. Maybe sort of a peach color would work, with mint green text. Yeah, I think peach/mint is a good idea.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:43 AM on May 22, 2017 [51 favorites]

it is mind-boggling how much predictive power Trump's Mirror has

A satisfying explanation for that via a twitter orb caption from @richparr79

"What does it do?"
"It lets you go back in time and tweet warnings about the future to yourself."

posted by Buntix at 8:44 AM on May 22, 2017 [42 favorites]

zarq: Blackstone, (a company founded by one of President Trump's top supporters,) and Saudi Arabia's sovereign wealth fund announced plans Saturday to invest $40 billion in infrastructure projects, mostly in the U.S.

Update: Saudi Arabia on Saturday made a tentative commitment of $20 billion to a new infrastructure investment fund that would be managed by The Blackstone Group, the private equity and real estate giant led by Trump economic advisor Steve Schwarzman. The overall fund target is around $40 billion, with Blackstone saying on a media call last month (PDF - "Blackstone Q1 2017 Media Call transcript" -- 10 pages, 125kb) that its past infrastructure investments have generated net returns of around 40% (AP/Axios, May 20, 2017).

Related quote from the transcript PDF:

Matt Jarzemsky (Wall Street Journal): Hi, morning guys. Can you talk a little bit more about some of the new business initiatives you’re looking at, and particularly, kind of where you guys are with infrastructure?

Tony James: Well, infrastructure is certainly one of them and it’s gotten some play in the past. We think that’s – as I mentioned, I think last time, we have an unbelievable record in infrastructure, where we’ve put out several billion dollars and earned a return of something in the net 40 percent range. So spectacular results. We’ve got a lot of internal expertise, and I think we have an awful lot of interest from our LPs. In fact, we’re getting a lot of reverse inquiries from LPs, urging us to get into the business.

So I don’t have any announcements to make in terms of deals, because we’re not sort of in investment mode yet but we’re laying the groundwork. And one of the things about our business is that’s both good and I suppose bad is they’re businesses that are slow to develop but once you develop them, it’s very hard to break in and you’ve got a highly defensive position. So you know, these aren’t businesses you rush into and are in tomorrow. We’re working on it and I’m optimistic that this will play out over the balance of the year and we’ll have a very good business by the end of the year.

Investment in infrastructure a business decision, yes. Let's run government more like a business, where investors get the really big benefits.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:48 AM on May 22, 2017 [28 favorites]

Orange is already taken by IRL. Maybe sort of a peach color would work, with mint green text. Yeah, I think peach/mint is a good idea.

georgiamintjulep.metafilter.com?
posted by Talez at 8:49 AM on May 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

All the Trump discussion that makes you want to drink!
posted by Talez at 8:49 AM on May 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

Technical question, is it possible to break a page into component pages, say at comment X, where x is a predetermined number like 1000. So, comment 1001 would generate a second page, and so on?
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 8:50 AM on May 22, 2017

y'all someone just go ahead and put together a new thread, any brainstorming about how to accomplish or manage or implement alternate thread management stuff should go in MetaTalk and it's okay if you want to do that again but I guarantee you we've been over it and doing it again in here from scratch isn't gonna make this thread any less huge
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:56 AM on May 22, 2017 [38 favorites]

today on Jennifer Rubin's Real World, find out what happens, when people stop being polite, and start getting real…

There are two explanations for this gigantic misstep: 1. Exhausted. Too old to complete his term? 2. He does not have a good brain.

(referring to trump leaking the identity of the foreign intelligence operation as Israel by denying that he said "Israel" while meeting with russians)
posted by murphy slaw at 8:57 AM on May 22, 2017 [23 favorites]

"What does it do?"
"It lets you go back in time and tweet warnings about the future to yourself."

Anyone else wonder if Trump's failure will be so colossal that he'll eventually pass into legend, like Midas, Tantallus, Pyrrhus, Ponzi, Boss Tweed, Huey Long, etc?

Guy succeeded/failed so bigly that he'll be in US history books forever (assuming we don't burn them all).

Can you imagine all the future doctoral theses to be written about the last few years of political history?
posted by leotrotsky at 8:57 AM on May 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

Trump is an asshole. (Link goes to a video where he offers his hand to Melania and then swipes it away.)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:01 AM on May 22, 2017 [6 favorites]

There are two explanations for this gigantic misstep: 1. Exhausted. Too old to complete his term? 2. He does not have a good brain.

(referring to trump leaking the identity of the foreign intelligence operation as Israel by denying that he said "Israel" while meeting with russians)

Trump: "I have a few more very specific things I'd like to deny."
posted by leotrotsky at 9:03 AM on May 22, 2017 [5 favorites]

Maybe we are now in the timeline where Clarence Thomas gets woke.

I think it's more like the situation a lot of Republicans or former Republicans find ourselves in: where people assume because the party has been taken over by white nationalists that everyone will be down with what the monsters want instead of noping the fuck out.

Clarence Thomas is presumably "normally I could be convinced this was harmless, but there are Nazis with tiki torches in the streets so fuck that noise."
posted by corb at 9:03 AM on May 22, 2017 [7 favorites]

Trump is an asshole. (Link goes to a video where he offers his hand to Melania and then swipes it away.)

Na, that's a white people's fist bump.

In any case, one thing he seems to have learned from the sheikhs is that you're supposed to always walk a few steps in front of your wife.
posted by sour cream at 9:05 AM on May 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

Trump is an asshole. (Link goes to a video where he offers his hand to Melania and then swipes it away.)

and then SHE swipes it away is what I see.
posted by srboisvert at 9:05 AM on May 22, 2017 [9 favorites]

Maybe we are now in the timeline where Clarence Thomas gets woke.

The other thing about Thomas is that he's a true believer in originalism (unlike Scalia, who dropped it with ease to get the ruling he wanted). That makes his opinions more likely to reach completely insane conclusions, but be more intellectually consistent.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:06 AM on May 22, 2017 [5 favorites]

Sinkhole opens outside Trump’s Mar-a-Lago in Palm Beach

Someone wished for that upthread. Whose birthday is it?
posted by donatella at 9:08 AM on May 22, 2017 [17 favorites]

Anyone else wonder if Trump's failure will be so colossal that he'll eventually pass into legend, like Midas, Tantallus, Pyrrhus, Ponzi, Boss Tweed, Huey Long, etc?

This has been my assumption all along. You know how Johnny Appleseed is this mythological figure and most people forget unless reminded that John Chapman was a real person who really did travel the old frontier planting apple trees? People hundreds of years from now will use Donnie Bumblefuck as a cautionary example and will have to remind themselves that he was a real person.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:08 AM on May 22, 2017 [10 favorites]

Investment in infrastructure a business decision, yes. Let's run government more like a business, where investors get the really big benefits.

Just to be completely clear when investors get a return of 40% on public infrastructure that means it cost the public 40% more than it cost - in that year.
posted by srboisvert at 9:08 AM on May 22, 2017 [45 favorites]

They're looping the Trump, Tillerson, and Wilbur Ross sword dance footage on today's Democracy Now! (alt link, .torrent) and I had a little itch in the back of my head trying to figure out what that reminded me of. Found it he re—Ahmed Hashim, “Saddam Husayn and Civil-Military Relations in Iraq: The Quest for Legitimacy and Power,” Middle East Journal 57, no. 1 (2003): 25.

Saddam’s personal treatment of the officer corps has rankled. In meetings with them he would sarcastically heap scorn on them colloquially in his local dialect, daring them to undertake a coup. He has also stated on several occasions that he was not unhappy that many of them had “fallen by the wayside.” One of the most sinister displays of humiliation of the officer corps and of one of the tribes that constitutes one of the backbones of the officer corps came in 1993 following yet another abortive coup. In July of that year, Colonel Sabri Mahmud al-Jiburi, an armored unit officer in one of the Republican Guards units, was shot after a coup attempt. Saddam traveled to the unfortunate Colonel’s birthplace, Shargat, near Mosul. There, he performed a traditional Bedouin sword dance around the colonel’s grave and forced the latter’s father to join him in the dance.

Also commenting on the WH big boy's first trip and events in the Middle East was Medea Benjamin, who I recognize from co-founding Code Pink and dumping buckets of tennis balls on the doorstep of the RNC last summer and subsequently being arrested on the convention floor after crashing it, but last year she also subsequently published Kingdom of the Unjust: Behind the U.S.-Saudi Connection.
posted by XMLicious at 9:11 AM on May 22, 2017 [6 favorites]

Clarence Thomas is presumably "normally I could be convinced this was harmless, but there are Nazis with tiki torches in the streets so fuck that noise."

You cannot possibly be presenting this with a straight face.

The other thing about Thomas is that he's a true believer in originalism (unlike Scalia, who dropped it with ease to get the ruling he wanted). That makes his opinions more likely to reach completely insane conclusions, but be intellectually consistent.

Yes. Clarence Fucking Thomas did not "get woke" or have an attack of the NeverTrumps. He's true believer in a demented intellectual framework that sometimes leads him to unexpected conclusions.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:11 AM on May 22, 2017 [21 favorites]

The other thing about Thomas is that he's a true believer in originalism (unlike Scalia, who dropped it with ease to get the ruling he wanted). That makes his opinions more likely to reach completely insane conclusions, but be more intellectually consistent.

So in other words, it's not that he's woke but that, unlike a mainstream Republicans, Thomas is willing to accept that sometimes the law requires things he doesn't personally like, such as striking down racism that operates under color of law.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:11 AM on May 22, 2017 [5 favorites]

Anyone else wonder if Trump's failure will be so colossal that he'll eventually pass into legend, like Midas, Tantallus, Pyrrhus, Ponzi, Boss Tweed, Huey Long, etc?

I'm wondering if it will reach the level where anyone else with that last name changes it, rather than be shamed by association.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:13 AM on May 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

The Case for Impeaching Trump -- and Fast (Vox)
posted by Barack Spinoza at 9:13 AM on May 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

zachlipton: There's been some sort of weird clusterfuck where they were supposed to go to the "center for moderate Islam," but diverted to the hotel instead, and now Tillerson is holding a press conference with the Saudi Foreign Minister without American press present.

Secretary of State Rex Tillerson briefed the media in Saudi Arabia on Sunday without members of the American press in attendance. (CNN Money/Media, May 22, 2017)

Tillerson held the press conference with the Saudi foreign minister, Adel bin Ahmed Al-Jubeir, but it appeared that only foreign reporters were present. Journalists from the United States were left scrambling to figure out what happened.

The State Department later apologized, adding that it couldn't notify the press in time.
...
Reporters later found a feed of the event that they used to transcribe Tillerson's remarks. The secretary spoke about President Trump's speech to the Muslim world on Sunday.

FFS, this is 2017: of course reporters will find a way to get information from a press briefing where they weren't invited. This is the internet era, any public meeting with US officials will be recorded and likely streamed somewhere. I'm not sure if this is amateur hour, disregard/disdain for the US media, or something else.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:13 AM on May 22, 2017 [31 favorites]

Yeah, but even if they got the transcript, they couldn't ask anything. Tillerson would call that a win, I suspect.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:16 AM on May 22, 2017 [12 favorites]

WaPo Daily 202: Trump hypocrisy continues at home and abroad

The issue here is that Trump scored political points on each of [the topics he criticized other politicians on]. Now he has shifted in dramatic ways without even nodding to the changes. Meanwhile, many of his supporters who expressed outrage when Obama was president are silent.

posted by ZeusHumms at 9:16 AM on May 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

Good point - just like Trump saying he could replace press briefings with printed statements.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:17 AM on May 22, 2017

The Case for Impeaching Trump -- and Fast

i really wish the media would stop pretending that there's anyone who actually needs to be convinced on impeachment. you can call your democratic rep all day long and they still won't have the votes, and until republican support for trump collapses completely, calling your republican rep isn't going to do a damn thing.

nobody needs to be convinced that there's a case to be made for impeachment. republicans need to be convinced that going along with impeachment isn't political suicide.

and i'm not even sure that it isn't.
posted by murphy slaw at 9:28 AM on May 22, 2017 [14 favorites]

Anyone else wonder if Trump's failure will be so colossal that he'll eventually pass into legend, like Midas, Tantallus, Pyrrhus, Ponzi, Boss Tweed, Huey Long, etc?

Only to half of the US population. The other half will legendarilize his martyrdom.
posted by delfin at 9:31 AM on May 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

i really wish the media would stop pretending

This.
posted by Melismata at 9:31 AM on May 22, 2017 [6 favorites]

>>nobody needs to be convinced that there's a case to be made for impeachment. republicans need to be convinced that going along with impeachment isn't political suicide. and i'm not even sure that it isn't.

This is the part that gets overlooked. Any rational person can see that there are grounds for impeachment - clearly. However, 30-40% approval ratings are really 55-60% approval ratings in deeply red House districts tempered with 15-20% ratings in purply-blue ones. For enough representatives that would be needed for impeachment, it would be political suicide and that's why it won't happen unless the Dems take the house or Trump commits crimes so egregious that even the 55-60%ers cannot ignore it anymore.
posted by splen at 9:33 AM on May 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

Guys, Trump is so fucking STUPID. From Vox:

'Here’s what just happened: Donald Trump and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu were about to leave a scheduled press availability — the room was already filled with noisy chatter. Trump and Netanyahu are called back for one last handshake photo. The press gaggle, as it always does, continues to shout out questions, even though it seemed the time for answers has ended. Netanyahu calls out, “Intelligence cooperation is terrific!”

Then Trump offers up his own off-script pronouncement. “Just so you understand,” he says, quieting the press, “just so you understand — I never mentioned the word or the name Israel in conversation. Never mentioned it.” As he’s talking, a clearly horrified Netanyahu’s eyes dart everywhere.

“They are all saying I did,” Trump continues, unaware. “Never mentioned the word Israel.”'

posted by xyzzy at 9:34 AM on May 22, 2017 [127 favorites]

Donald Trump: own-goaler.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 9:39 AM on May 22, 2017 [10 favorites]

Trump is an asshole. (Link goes to a video where he offers his hand to Melania and then swipes it away.)

She flicks his hand away. She's done that once or twice before in public. Interesting that she's the one stopping the hand-hold, because he's the one who doesn't like shaking hands and is a reported germaphobe.

It could be nerves. Could be something else. She seems quite uncomfortable around him and they don't seem to like each other much. She hasn't ever seemed comfortable in her role as First Lady. She looks tense in appearances and sounds nervous when she has to give speeches. Publicly, he doesn't show any respect to her except as a trophy he can brag about.

Sharp contrast: The Obamas were wonderfully affectionate and loving to one another. The Bushes (George and Laura) genuinely love and respect each other. And whatever kind of private relationship Bill and Hillary Clinton may have, in public they show love and affection as well.
posted by zarq at 9:39 AM on May 22, 2017 [6 favorites]

He's so fucking stupid he doesn't even realize how stupid he is. This is horrifying. What else has he fucked up out of sight of the press because he lacks the intellectual capability to understand what just happened?
posted by yasaman at 9:40 AM on May 22, 2017 [50 favorites]

It'd be kind of cute if he didn't have the power of life or death over billions of people.
posted by Coventry at 9:41 AM on May 22, 2017 [14 favorites]

For enough representatives that would be needed for impeachment, it would be political suicide and that's why it won't happen unless the Dems take the house or Trump commits crimes so egregious that even the 55-60%ers cannot ignore it anymore.

it's not enough to impeach him, you've got to convict him, too

the more i see of how the republican party and it's leaders are acting, the more i wonder what it would take - i think it still might be possible - but i get the impression that republicans would rather have a senile fool as president than admit they'd actually elected a senile fool as president by mistake
posted by pyramid termite at 9:42 AM on May 22, 2017 [6 favorites]

“They are all saying I did,” Trump continues, unaware. “Never mentioned the word Israel.”'

Basil: Listen, don't mention the war! I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it all right. [returns to the Germans] So! It's all forgotten now, and let's hear no more about it. So, that's two egg mayonnaise, a prawn Goebbels, a Hermann Goering, and four Colditz salads.
posted by jaduncan at 9:42 AM on May 22, 2017 [49 favorites]

if trump was nixon: "the democrats are only angry about those burglars i hired because i won. if mcgovern had won you'd never hear about it again. they need to get over it."
posted by murphy slaw at 9:43 AM on May 22, 2017 [7 favorites]

Donald Trump: own-goaler.

Own-gaoler, let's hope.
posted by EarBucket at 9:46 AM on May 22, 2017 [40 favorites]

“They are all saying I did,” Trump continues, unaware. “Never mentioned the word Israel.”'

Trump followed up with "So that's another story you got wrong." [real]

StephenColbertFacepalm.gif.
posted by zarq at 9:49 AM on May 22, 2017 [19 favorites]

How is it that no one at the White House has thought to fit the President with a shock collar yet?
posted by zarq at 9:52 AM on May 22, 2017 [19 favorites]

because he'd find a way to set it off and shove his head up everyone's ass he could
posted by pyramid termite at 9:55 AM on May 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

Gosh. Isn't it a coincidence that a rapid deterioration of the US-Israel relationship would be a really bad thing for just about everybody except Russia?
posted by schmod at 9:57 AM on May 22, 2017 [16 favorites]

It's like the root cause of Trump fatigue. He is monumentally stupid that he doesn't even know he's stupid. What's worse, he thinks he's very smart. The kind of mental gymnastics required for him to convince himself that he's just as smart as the smart people explaining things that he can't understand have to be mind blowing.

To consider the depth of his idiocy one must consider the emotional labor that would be required to convince him that the thing he just said was stupid. That requires convincing him that he's dumb, that other people are smart and smarter than him...by a LOT, that they're not putting on an act to seem elitist because they don't like him but that they're actually just smart. And it just keeps going and going until it's a massive multi-year effort.

It would require such a massive investment of emotional labor that even considering the scope of that undertaking saps one's energy*.

*Oh good I reminded myself of Trump's stupid position on exercise and energy and now thinking about THAT bit of idiocy just after the latest one is going to make me so tired that I pass o...
posted by VTX at 9:58 AM on May 22, 2017 [12 favorites]

They're looping the Trump, Tillerson, and Wilbur Ross sword dance footage

Looks like Trump had trouble getting his sword up. Not much of a swordsman.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:01 AM on May 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

Anyone else wonder if Trump's failure will be so colossal that he'll eventually pass into legend, like Midas, Tantallus, Pyrrhus, Ponzi, Boss Tweed, Huey Long, etc?
You mean reverse King Midas in that everything he touches turns to shit.
posted by adamvasco at 10:03 AM on May 22, 2017

The man with the minus touch.
posted by valetta at 10:04 AM on May 22, 2017 [62 favorites]

Oh good I reminded myself of Trump's stupid position on exercise and energy

you see, trump tries not to think too hard because you only have a fixed-size battery of good ideas and you don't want to waste them on something unimportant like international relations
posted by murphy slaw at 10:04 AM on May 22, 2017 [17 favorites]

For those of you playing along at home...

It has been _0_ days since the last Trump disaster.
We now return you to our regularly scheduled, GrimDark Time Line...
posted by PROD_TPSL at 10:05 AM on May 22, 2017 [22 favorites]

Gosh. Isn't it a coincidence that a rapid deterioration of the US-Israel relationship would be a really bad thing for just about everybody except Russia?

This falls squarely on Bibi's head. He's spent the last eight years sabotaging the relationship out of a short-sighted attempt to build his own power base. He's been willing to partner with anti-Semites, Dominionists, and fellow autocratic thugs, but he just now seems to realize that may not have been the best idea. It's pretty fucked up that at least one entire nation will suffer the consequences.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:07 AM on May 22, 2017 [23 favorites]

President Trump and Israeli Prime Minister Dinner Remarks (live feed, LOLs.)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:15 AM on May 22, 2017

No, running the Executive Branch is a team effort, but being President of the United States is the responsibility of exactly one person. That's because we have two centuries of precedent and government-building that have made it possible for one person to do all the things we've assigned (in law and in custom) to the President. Trump and his people have decided that many of those things are dumb, and that many of the things that have previously been kept off the President's desk are too important to leave to other people, and the result is that the Presidency -- that set of tasks that we have determined to be so important to the Republic that we can only trust them to the person for whom (sort of) most of us voted (indirectly) for -- is now a team effort.

I think we mostly are argue-agreeing here, but I think you're asserting team effort/not team effort when you're really describing team effort let by someone competent and with an ability to discern what should and should not be delegated/team effort "led" by bozo with control and trust issues and who shirks things such that they fall to other folks on the team or not at all. "Being President" in the last century - or arguably forever - has always involved being the public mouthpiece for decisions made in a back room with most of the work done by others and steered/vetoed by one person. The problem with Trump isn't the team, it's the shitty/non-existance guidance and supervision. There's no doubt in my mind that there were plenty of times where Obama laid out a general philosophical position and others went off and did everything, only returning with a brief and a course of action which he then assessed before going out and selling/delivering it. I'd wager good money that things were brought to him as initiatives in an area he'd never asked anyone to do anything on, ready to deploy, because the staff knew what his principles and priorities where and they'd come up with a way to advance that in some area.

So I feel like complaining about the team aspect here makes it sound like that middle is the issue here, but that has always been thus. The issue is that Trump has no philosophy beyond me me me, the others who do everything are an infighting bunch of C-grade people, and that they return with a course of action he doesn't bother to pay attention to even so much as to determine if he likes it. See earlier "I don't even read these executive orders before I sign em" shit. If they were really a team at least they'd be operating somewhat cohesively/consistently.

So yeah, I think it sends an awful message when the President can't lay out a schedule of appearance and stick to it. Sending a representative at the last minute says something about how important he thinks something is. But the fact that it's Ivanka, eh, her operating as a mouthpiece is like 5% of the awful to me. I think it's her being an unconfirmed person actually steering the ship and setting the policies that's the real problem. It's Trump being disinterested/stupid and not setting the course that's the problem that keeps me up nights.
posted by phearlez at 10:20 AM on May 22, 2017 [5 favorites]

Have fun with your war in Iran, Americans. (fake... so far)
posted by Yowser at 10:21 AM on May 22, 2017

Is someone making a new thread? The MF servers must be groaning.
posted by Coventry at 10:24 AM on May 22, 2017

New thread? (not as comprehensive as some but hopefully good enough)
posted by murphy slaw at 10:25 AM on May 22, 2017 [25 favorites]

Re SCOTUS, Clarence Thomas, and gerrymandering:

I'm not familiar with the details of the electoral maps at issue in this ruling, but, historically, R's have often gerrymandered in the south in ways that increase minority representation in Congress. This counter-intuitive result arises for two reasons. First, by giving D's and minority voters a supermajority in a few districts, R's can give themselves a narrower majority in a much larger number of districts. Second, this strategy has previously earned R's some cover for their true motives, both in court and in minority communities that have good reason to feel ambivalent about the outcome.
posted by aws17576 at 10:25 AM on May 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

New thread from murphy slaw
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:25 AM on May 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

Thanks, murphy slaw!
posted by Coventry at 10:26 AM on May 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

Clarence Thomas is presumably "normally I could be convinced this was harmless, but there are Nazis with tiki torches in the streets so fuck that noise."

This seems profoundly unlikely.
posted by Artw at 10:27 AM on May 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

On Israeli-Palestinian peace process: "It isn't easy. I've heard it's one of the toughest deals of all." [real]
posted by Behemoth at 10:28 AM on May 22, 2017 [12 favorites]

This seems profoundly unlikely.

Maybe, but in Virginia v. Black Thomas spoke out from the bench, calling cross burning "a symbol of white supremacy and a tool for the intimidation and harassment". The symbolism of the nazi tiki party was probably not lost on him.
posted by peeedro at 10:46 AM on May 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

I think this column has a pretty good description of Thomas's view towards racism. He's of the colorblind = not-racism school (one of the reasons conservatives love him), and basically hates anything that looks like it's enforcing a quota or singling specific races out. So he's anti-affirmative action, skeptical of the whole concept of implicit bias, but also recognizes racism in its most explicit forms, like burning crosses and Confederate flags.

I don't doubt he's been shook by the tiki-torch Nazis and rise of obvious anti-Black hate crimes. But I don't know if this decision is totally out of line with his other opinions. Like, in the case of North Carolina's district it's almost hilariously obvious how district lines explicitly targeted Black communities, to the point it probably rose to Thomas's "now it's racist" minimum standard.
posted by Anonymous at 1:02 PM on May 22, 2017

« Older The Muse Within | The Unpopular Opinion: Prometheus edition Newer »

This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments

It has been _0_ days since the last Trump disaster May 17, 2017 9:53 AM Subscribe

Tags

Share

It has been _0_ days since the last Trump disaster
May 17, 2017 9:53 AM Subscribe