Georgia on My Mind: All Bets are Ossoff
June 20, 2017 3:54 PM Subscribe
Tonight, the much anticipated results of the GA-06 Special Election will be known. Recent polling has shown Ossoff and Handel to be in a virtual statistical tie. Pro-Ossoff dinosaurs have been seen campaigning around the district and have made campaign signs into glitter bombs (Joan Walsh, The Nation! Here are 6 key things to watch for (Caitlin MacNeal, Talking Points Memo) as the results come in. Here are some resources (courtesy of Chrysostom) for following the results.
In other news, Mitch McConnell and his staff are hiding the text of the Senate Healthcare bill, even from members of the Republican caucus (Jordain Carney, The Hill). A draft of the bill is currently expected to be released on Thursday. However, the bill is likely to change next week (Catilin Owens, Axios). Reports suggest that Donald Trump has, for a second time, privately criticized the Senate bill (Eamon Javers, CNBC), saying that it needs "more heart".
Senate Democrats held the floor on Monday night (Everett Burgess, Politico), vowing to gum up the workings of the Senate with procedural motions in the hopes of forcing McConnell to reveal the proposed text of the bill.
Also some Housekeeping. First, it's very helpful to news organizations if we credit authors and link directly to their pieces, as per spitbull's suggestions. Second, please keep contextless liveblogging in chat, so as to keep the thread size manageable for as long as possible. In this vein, if the news is slow one day, the thread can also be slow. Finally, please do keep the moderators' and fellow MeFites' mental health in mind by avoiding posting doomsday scenarios and/or thoughts of suicide. It takes a serious toll on the moderation staff, especially when these posts are grim and graphic. If you are in need of mental health resources, please consider the ones in this post or ask for some help in finding some.
Thanks also to soren_lorensen and Existential Dread (as well as everyone else who proposed one) for the post title!
In other news, Mitch McConnell and his staff are hiding the text of the Senate Healthcare bill, even from members of the Republican caucus (Jordain Carney, The Hill). A draft of the bill is currently expected to be released on Thursday. However, the bill is likely to change next week (Catilin Owens, Axios). Reports suggest that Donald Trump has, for a second time, privately criticized the Senate bill (Eamon Javers, CNBC), saying that it needs "more heart".
Senate Democrats held the floor on Monday night (Everett Burgess, Politico), vowing to gum up the workings of the Senate with procedural motions in the hopes of forcing McConnell to reveal the proposed text of the bill.
Also some Housekeeping. First, it's very helpful to news organizations if we credit authors and link directly to their pieces, as per spitbull's suggestions. Second, please keep contextless liveblogging in chat, so as to keep the thread size manageable for as long as possible. In this vein, if the news is slow one day, the thread can also be slow. Finally, please do keep the moderators' and fellow MeFites' mental health in mind by avoiding posting doomsday scenarios and/or thoughts of suicide. It takes a serious toll on the moderation staff, especially when these posts are grim and graphic. If you are in need of mental health resources, please consider the ones in this post or ask for some help in finding some.
Thanks also to soren_lorensen and Existential Dread (as well as everyone else who proposed one) for the post title!
Bingewatching House of Cards here. S3E1, 11 minutes in, Frank Underwood goes on TV and says he'll form a commission to look into campaign finance reform so "history does not repeat itself".
If only we inhabited that timeline.
posted by saysthis at 4:01 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
If only we inhabited that timeline.
posted by saysthis at 4:01 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Kudos, EC, for stepping up the plate once again.
Reports suggest that Donald Trump has, for a second time, privately criticized the Senate bill (Eamon Javers, CNBC), saying that it needs "more heart".
I suspect, as in all things Trump, his ox has been gored by some provision or other and he wants that one, and only that one, fixed to not harm him or his.
posted by Mental Wimp at 4:01 PM on June 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
Reports suggest that Donald Trump has, for a second time, privately criticized the Senate bill (Eamon Javers, CNBC), saying that it needs "more heart".
I suspect, as in all things Trump, his ox has been gored by some provision or other and he wants that one, and only that one, fixed to not harm him or his.
posted by Mental Wimp at 4:01 PM on June 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
Would you say it's time for MeFites to crack each other's heads open and feast on the goo inside?
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:07 PM on June 20, 2017 [42 favorites]
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:07 PM on June 20, 2017 [42 favorites]
Hi there! I've been lurking in these threads (and MetaFilter in general) since the heady days of the primaries... I finally registered an account this weekend, and today I got around to posting a comment here. I won't say these threads have helped keep me sane, but "informed" is a nice second best.
Good luck, Georgia.
posted by one for the books at 4:07 PM on June 20, 2017 [109 favorites]
Good luck, Georgia.
posted by one for the books at 4:07 PM on June 20, 2017 [109 favorites]
I suspect, as in all things Trump, his ox has been gored by some provision or other and he wants that one, and only that one, fixed to not harm him or his.
He overheard some WH staff discussing if one of them had any Alleve on them and that made up his mind right there [FALSE?]
posted by petebest at 4:08 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
He overheard some WH staff discussing if one of them had any Alleve on them and that made up his mind right there [FALSE?]
posted by petebest at 4:08 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yes I would Kent.
posted by bstreep at 4:08 PM on June 20, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by bstreep at 4:08 PM on June 20, 2017 [10 favorites]
Oh, and there's a DailyKos livethread, but I think normally there isn't much editorial content, mostly the commenters going at it.
posted by Chrysostom at 4:11 PM on June 20, 2017
posted by Chrysostom at 4:11 PM on June 20, 2017
Any win seems too much to hope for TBH.
posted by Artw at 4:11 PM on June 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Artw at 4:11 PM on June 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
The Century Foundation How TrumpCare Affects Us All; map by county
"It's pretty good, right? The red is obviously us."
posted by kirkaracha at 4:11 PM on June 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
"It's pretty good, right? The red is obviously us."
posted by kirkaracha at 4:11 PM on June 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Good luck, people of Georgia's 6th. We're all counting on you.
Seriously. We're counting on you. Don't fuck this up. Seriously. Please.
posted by Frayed Knot at 4:13 PM on June 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Seriously. We're counting on you. Don't fuck this up. Seriously. Please.
posted by Frayed Knot at 4:13 PM on June 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Trump’s Not Ready for a Crisis
Inside the 18-acre White House compound, the National Security Council process—making key decisions and overseeing their execution—is still in transition nearly five months after President Donald Trump took office. The sooner this transition concludes, the better for our security. In the long run, getting this transition right is far more important than any of the administration’s discrete decisions that have dominated the news since January 20.posted by kirkaracha at 4:14 PM on June 20, 2017 [14 favorites]
...
While we undergo this too-slow transition, the world continues to spin. Without our national security team and process in place, we are living on borrowed time before we confront a significant national security crisis that overnight becomes our first priority. Opponents deliberately will test us, friends will move on in their own interests, natural disasters will happen. No one will wait for us to get our act together. We cannot afford 2017 to be a year of endless transition. This issue is our top national security priority today.
Welcome, one for the books, and I'm sorry that we have to meet under such circumstances. May happier days of meltdowns over less troubling controversies such as the great sit/stand debate lie ahead for us all.
posted by Existential Dread at 4:15 PM on June 20, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by Existential Dread at 4:15 PM on June 20, 2017 [20 favorites]
metafilter: normally there isn't much editorial content, mostly the commenters going at it.
posted by Justinian at 4:15 PM on June 20, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 4:15 PM on June 20, 2017 [17 favorites]
I asked @MerriamWebster to consider my extended definition for inclusion in 2017's words of note:
mcconnell /məˈkɑnəl/
mcconnell /məˈkɑnəl/
nounposted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:16 PM on June 20, 2017 [26 favorites]
1. the stubborn, smelly layer of old bones and rotten fat at the bottom of a commercial grease trap.
2. a sheen having the odor or appearance of that substance: The oil spill created a sickly mcconnell on the once-pristine lake.
verb
3. to destroy something while obfuscating one's actions, especially for personal gain: The mayor promised to improve trash pickup but instead mcconnelled it so badly that the town was quarantined.
Caitlin Owens/Axios: GOP still searching for votes after 'testy' health care meeting. As usual, they're bleeding from the right, with folks like Sens. Cruz and Lee upset because the bill isn't harsh enough, and from the left, with more moderate Republicans worried about Medicaid cuts. The strategy, which always seems to work, seems to be to placate the right, because the moderates always seem to fall in line anyway, no matter how much they talk about how "concerned" they are.
Matt Fuller has a similar take: Senate Republicans Don’t Really Care About The Loathed AHCA Process, in which Sen. McCain is suitably concerned yet won't do a darn thing to address his concerns, and chaos reigns as the train rumbles forward.
Now would be a great time to set an alarm on your phone to remind you to call your Senators in the morning and tell them you oppose the AHCA and any cuts to Medicaid.
posted by zachlipton at 4:17 PM on June 20, 2017 [26 favorites]
Matt Fuller has a similar take: Senate Republicans Don’t Really Care About The Loathed AHCA Process, in which Sen. McCain is suitably concerned yet won't do a darn thing to address his concerns, and chaos reigns as the train rumbles forward.
Now would be a great time to set an alarm on your phone to remind you to call your Senators in the morning and tell them you oppose the AHCA and any cuts to Medicaid.
posted by zachlipton at 4:17 PM on June 20, 2017 [26 favorites]
And there's a liveblog from the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.
posted by Chrysostom at 4:21 PM on June 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 4:21 PM on June 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
A comment from the previous thread:
That's a really good point. What's preventing the Democratic noise machine from yelling and screaming about "Death Panels" and "Taking away Grandma's Nursing Home" and "Freedom to Die in a Ditch"? Why not force Republicans to deny it constantly?
Democratic politicians seem to have this notion that they are somehow above politicking. It's insane.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:24 PM on June 20, 2017 [55 favorites]
That's a really good point. What's preventing the Democratic noise machine from yelling and screaming about "Death Panels" and "Taking away Grandma's Nursing Home" and "Freedom to Die in a Ditch"? Why not force Republicans to deny it constantly?
Democratic politicians seem to have this notion that they are somehow above politicking. It's insane.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:24 PM on June 20, 2017 [55 favorites]
Our precinct was crowded but moving very fast about an hour ago. Looked good for Ossoff. No matter what happens, though, I never want to be contacted about any election ever again.
posted by lemonadeheretic at 4:28 PM on June 20, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by lemonadeheretic at 4:28 PM on June 20, 2017 [23 favorites]
Democratic politicians seem to have this notion that they are somehow above politicking. It's insane.
It's because politicking at its core is both somewhat intellectually dishonest and usually not much use.
posted by Talez at 4:29 PM on June 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's because politicking at its core is both somewhat intellectually dishonest and usually not much use.
posted by Talez at 4:29 PM on June 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
No worries, lemonadeheretic, you've got at least 6 months before the midterm campaigning.
posted by Justinian at 4:30 PM on June 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 4:30 PM on June 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
No matter what happens, though, I never want to be contacted about any election ever again.
Sorry, this seat is up again in 503 days!
AND there's a governor's race!
posted by Chrysostom at 4:31 PM on June 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
Sorry, this seat is up again in 503 days!
AND there's a governor's race!
posted by Chrysostom at 4:31 PM on June 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
538 live blog.
Right now, (7:32 ET), Handel is up 9 votes to 7 (was 6-3 when I started writing this comment). TIME TO PANIC!
posted by Huffy Puffy at 4:32 PM on June 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
Right now, (7:32 ET), Handel is up 9 votes to 7 (was 6-3 when I started writing this comment). TIME TO PANIC!
posted by Huffy Puffy at 4:32 PM on June 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
Pod Save America today has Chuck Schumer and it's a good listen re D stragery for the Senate health care Bill of Mysteries.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:34 PM on June 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:34 PM on June 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
Reminder that chatty stuff is supposed to go in Chat.
(I'm as guilty as anyone)
posted by Chrysostom at 4:35 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
(I'm as guilty as anyone)
posted by Chrysostom at 4:35 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Um, keep watching.
I'm fully caught up and I'd rather have Doug Stamper as my president than be in this fucking timeline
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:36 PM on June 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm fully caught up and I'd rather have Doug Stamper as my president than be in this fucking timeline
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:36 PM on June 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
Doomslayer prediction Ossoff loses by a slim margin due to being basically an exciting as weak tea and an outsider to the dinstinct but we see more engagement from female voters.
posted by The Whelk at 4:36 PM on June 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 4:36 PM on June 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
> Right now, (7:32 ET), Handel is up 9 votes to 7 (was 6-3 when I started writing this comment). TIME TO PANIC!
Hopefully at one point it was 1-0 and someone got a screenshot.
posted by The Card Cheat at 4:36 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hopefully at one point it was 1-0 and someone got a screenshot.
posted by The Card Cheat at 4:36 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Reuters Attorney general unveils 12-city partnership to fight crime
Pod Save America today has Chuck Schumer
I just finished listening to this and I admit Schumer was quite inspiring. Loved the story about how he got into politics(because the Harvard basketball team did not want him.)
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:37 PM on June 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
The Justice Department did not say how it chose the 12 cities, which are mostly in the eastern half of the country and include Buffalo, New York and Memphis, Tennessee.
The program features a three-year initiative to help coordinate crime-fighting efforts among federal, state, local and tribal law enforcement and prosecutors, Sessions said in unveiling the new National Public Safety Partnership.[...]Sessions did not disclose any new funding for the initiative, which will focus on gun crime, drug trafficking and gang violence. The federal government will be providing help in areas that include training, crime analysis, gun violence, community engagement and investigations.
Pod Save America today has Chuck Schumer
I just finished listening to this and I admit Schumer was quite inspiring. Loved the story about how he got into politics(because the Harvard basketball team did not want him.)
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:37 PM on June 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's because politicking at its core is both somewhat intellectually dishonest and usually not much use.
I agree with the first part, but I think the successes of this generation of conservatives show how useful it can be.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:37 PM on June 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
I agree with the first part, but I think the successes of this generation of conservatives show how useful it can be.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:37 PM on June 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
Democratic politicians seem to have this notion that they are somehow above politicking. It's insane
It's the "When they go low, we go high" crap that cost them the presidency and senate in 16. One party thinks 'Dangerous Donald' is an effective tactic, the other will gin up as much racial, sexual, violent, repugnant fear and loathing as they can to win.
Guess who won. Dems need to learn style points don't matter, only results. So far there is 0 indication they've learned that for today or for 2018.
posted by splen at 4:38 PM on June 20, 2017 [34 favorites]
It's the "When they go low, we go high" crap that cost them the presidency and senate in 16. One party thinks 'Dangerous Donald' is an effective tactic, the other will gin up as much racial, sexual, violent, repugnant fear and loathing as they can to win.
Guess who won. Dems need to learn style points don't matter, only results. So far there is 0 indication they've learned that for today or for 2018.
posted by splen at 4:38 PM on June 20, 2017 [34 favorites]
Handel is up 9 votes to 7 (was 6-3 when I started writing this comment). TIME TO PANIC!
Don't look at the votes, look at the Ossoff momentum!
posted by contraption at 4:38 PM on June 20, 2017
Don't look at the votes, look at the Ossoff momentum!
posted by contraption at 4:38 PM on June 20, 2017
Meanwhile the Republicans run ads directly tying Jon Ossoff to Nancy Pelosi to shooting members of Congress.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:40 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by kirkaracha at 4:40 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Don't look at the votes, look at the Ossoff momentum!
Velossoffity!
posted by kirkaracha at 4:41 PM on June 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
Tonight the Trumps and Pences are having dinner together. Tomorrow Trump travels to Iowa for a Tech Week event in Cedar Rapids and a Trump-Pence campaign rally in the evening. He must be feeling blue since they've scheduled a rally to cheer him up. Also, he and Pence are sure spending a lot of time together. They really seem like an odd fit--especially the wives. Can't imagine what they talk about.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:42 PM on June 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:42 PM on June 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
The in-person early vote in Fulton county was pretty good for Handel. I wish we could get some mail-in early vote to see how heavily Ossoff it ends up.
posted by Justinian at 4:43 PM on June 20, 2017
posted by Justinian at 4:43 PM on June 20, 2017
I don't know if I'm feeling new panic now or if this is still the old panic from last November.
posted by rouftop at 4:45 PM on June 20, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by rouftop at 4:45 PM on June 20, 2017 [18 favorites]
Yeah, this separate counting of postal voting and in-person early voting is kind of nuts.
posted by Chrysostom at 4:45 PM on June 20, 2017
posted by Chrysostom at 4:45 PM on June 20, 2017
National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: Goodnight, Health Care
In a dark, dark wood-paneled roomposted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:47 PM on June 20, 2017 [57 favorites]
Down a dark, dark hall
Down a dark, dark staircase
In a dark, dark building
Down another equally long hall
Past a row of statues
And three ominous guards
And two American flags
And a man whispering “hush”
And a series of paintings of the Founding Fathers in various attitudes of saintliness and undress
Through several thick doors
Inaccessible to journalists and far from the keen eyes of the Senate
Behind a pile of papers
And another pile of papers
In a dark, dark box
There is
The Senate version of the health-care bill.
Which of course everyone knows about and which has been discussed perfectly openly.
He must be feeling blue since they've scheduled a rally to cheer him upI am not sure it's going to have that effect. I'm getting the sense that there are going to be more protesters than supporters.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:48 PM on June 20, 2017
Watch Osseggs lose but Parnell win in SC-5. Because 2017.
Edit: Ossoff -> Osseggs on my phone, well played, autocorrect. Fits with the egg theme around here.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:50 PM on June 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
Edit: Ossoff -> Osseggs on my phone, well played, autocorrect. Fits with the egg theme around here.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:50 PM on June 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
GQ Paul Ryan's Opponent in Wisconsin Is a Union Ironworker Who Just Launched the Campaign Ad of the Year
When Speaker of the House and Wisconsin congressman Paul Ryan isn't busy taking your health care away, he's trying to give rich people tax cuts while screwing over the poor. Well, it turns out he's going to have some competition for his seat in 2018 and it's as if his opponent was built in a lab from a mix of Springsteen lyrics and "I hate Democrats, but there's something about this guy I like," statements from Republicans. Randy Bryce is a union iron worker, a U.S. Army veteran, and a badass with an awesome mustache that serves as the namesake of his Twitter account: @IronStache.posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:51 PM on June 20, 2017 [63 favorites]
T.D. Strange: "Watch Osseggs lose but Parnell win in SC-5. Because 2017"
Parnell IS ahead at this point.
posted by Chrysostom at 4:51 PM on June 20, 2017
Parnell IS ahead at this point.
posted by Chrysostom at 4:51 PM on June 20, 2017
I opened 538 for the first time since election night, felt a wave of nausea so intense it rivaled food poisoning, and promptly backed out of there.
Still not ready yet. I'll try again if Ossoff wins and I get to see some blue. Maybe.
posted by lydhre at 4:52 PM on June 20, 2017 [27 favorites]
Still not ready yet. I'll try again if Ossoff wins and I get to see some blue. Maybe.
posted by lydhre at 4:52 PM on June 20, 2017 [27 favorites]
I've read that in the last week a number of conservative PACs have purchased air time and run fear-mongering ads regarding the congressional baseball practice shooting, trying to blame "unhinged leftists" and that this is what will happen if a Democrat gains a seat. It's disgusting, but not surprising considering the political climate that we live in.
posted by Fizz at 4:55 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Fizz at 4:55 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Ossoff will lose because republicans cheat.
Period.
I hope I'm wrong but I don't think so.
posted by Max Power at 4:57 PM on June 20, 2017 [16 favorites]
Period.
I hope I'm wrong but I don't think so.
posted by Max Power at 4:57 PM on June 20, 2017 [16 favorites]
I agree with the first part, but I think the successes of this generation of conservatives show how useful it can be.
It "works" on people because it synergizes with their preconceived biases and prejudices and validates them. It doesn't have to be conservatives (Jill 2016!) and it really doesn't change hearts or minds.
posted by Talez at 5:02 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
It "works" on people because it synergizes with their preconceived biases and prejudices and validates them. It doesn't have to be conservatives (Jill 2016!) and it really doesn't change hearts or minds.
posted by Talez at 5:02 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Ossoff will lose because republicans cheat.
Period.
I think it's worth considering that in a district that is historically heavily GOP, where the Dem got about 48% in round 1, and where the polls have been tied, that the GOP candidate could just plain win.
I don't like Handel, I hope she loses, but I wouldn't say she's wildly out of step with what people in the district want.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:03 PM on June 20, 2017 [25 favorites]
Period.
I think it's worth considering that in a district that is historically heavily GOP, where the Dem got about 48% in round 1, and where the polls have been tied, that the GOP candidate could just plain win.
I don't like Handel, I hope she loses, but I wouldn't say she's wildly out of step with what people in the district want.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:03 PM on June 20, 2017 [25 favorites]
There's an idiom that goes "you don't wrestle a pig in shit because the pig will enjoy it and you'll just end up covered in shit". I'm pretty sure this is in common parlance. But still people insist the Democrats get in that shit covered pen and wrestle with that pig because, well, the pig seems to enjoy it.
posted by Talez at 5:04 PM on June 20, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Talez at 5:04 PM on June 20, 2017 [10 favorites]
Bunch more votes came in, they're consistent with a Handel win of less than 1%, same as the initial early vote from Fulton.
posted by Justinian at 5:05 PM on June 20, 2017
posted by Justinian at 5:05 PM on June 20, 2017
It'll be a real peach of a recount.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 5:06 PM on June 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Barack Spinoza at 5:06 PM on June 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
Before doom saying, remember this is a baseline R+6 district.
There are more than 30 seats currently occupied by a Republican that are less R-leaning than GA-6, including Paul Ryan's. A loss here is still not inconsistent with retaking the House. Although a win would obviously bring some much needed hope.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:07 PM on June 20, 2017 [32 favorites]
There are more than 30 seats currently occupied by a Republican that are less R-leaning than GA-6, including Paul Ryan's. A loss here is still not inconsistent with retaking the House. Although a win would obviously bring some much needed hope.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:07 PM on June 20, 2017 [32 favorites]
May I ask, as others have before, that we chill on the negative talk? The "we'll never win" talk. As it's been pointed out many times before, it helps no one.
posted by greermahoney at 5:08 PM on June 20, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by greermahoney at 5:08 PM on June 20, 2017 [22 favorites]
I'm putting my faith in Nate Cohn and waiting for the mail vote before I jump to any serious conclusions.
posted by zachlipton at 5:08 PM on June 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 5:08 PM on June 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Also worth remembering: Dems need 24 seats to regain control of House. There are 23 districts where Clinton won in the 2016 presidential election that have a GOP House member.
posted by prefpara at 5:08 PM on June 20, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by prefpara at 5:08 PM on June 20, 2017 [15 favorites]
With 4% reporting it's tied at 50.00 - 50.00, in case anyone was worried this wouldn't be close.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 5:09 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Barack Spinoza at 5:09 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's the "When they go low, we go high" crap that cost them the presidency and senate in 16. One party thinks 'Dangerous Donald' is an effective tactic, the other will gin up as much racial, sexual, violent, repugnant fear and loathing as they can to win.
Guess who won. Dems need to learn style points don't matter, only results. So far there is 0 indication they've learned that for today or for 2018.
Yeah, what we really need is a stupid, emotional, fear-driven mob of reactive voters like the Republicans have! That will ensure that thoughtful, careful, examined policy work gets done!
This isn't a difference of style, it's a difference of substance. Maybe we could get more voters by lying and cheating and stoking hate and doing all the shit Republicans do (and I'm sure you're arguing that we should turn to the dark side based on lots of good empirical data on what that would do to polling numbers rather than just blind emotion). Maybe not, since a lot of people who recognize the Republican machine and process as monstrous would see yours the same way. But even in the best case the end result wouldn't be what the Democrats are going for now, except more effective; it would be something different, something more populist, something more short-sighted and fearful and emotion-driven, and in the end the hatemob that you've created would be just as vulnerable to hijacking as the Republican hatemob is.
Do you know any people who've been weaponized and radicalized by the Republican propaganda machine? I have a few family members this has happened to. It ruins them as people. They never look happy anymore. They have been coached into a state of constant fear and paranoia over fictional bullshit for the good of the cause, and it hollows them out in a way that is frankly terrifying to behold. They're always defensive, always combative, strung tight like a wire and ready to snap at absolutely anyone or anything. You said the results are what matter; a high-strung, miserable, desperate, hateful electorate who will vote for whichever candidate inspires the most gut rage is the result of the Republican process. Is this the result you're looking for? Is this what you think we need more of? And what do you think comes next?
posted by IAmUnaware at 5:09 PM on June 20, 2017 [115 favorites]
Guess who won. Dems need to learn style points don't matter, only results. So far there is 0 indication they've learned that for today or for 2018.
Yeah, what we really need is a stupid, emotional, fear-driven mob of reactive voters like the Republicans have! That will ensure that thoughtful, careful, examined policy work gets done!
This isn't a difference of style, it's a difference of substance. Maybe we could get more voters by lying and cheating and stoking hate and doing all the shit Republicans do (and I'm sure you're arguing that we should turn to the dark side based on lots of good empirical data on what that would do to polling numbers rather than just blind emotion). Maybe not, since a lot of people who recognize the Republican machine and process as monstrous would see yours the same way. But even in the best case the end result wouldn't be what the Democrats are going for now, except more effective; it would be something different, something more populist, something more short-sighted and fearful and emotion-driven, and in the end the hatemob that you've created would be just as vulnerable to hijacking as the Republican hatemob is.
Do you know any people who've been weaponized and radicalized by the Republican propaganda machine? I have a few family members this has happened to. It ruins them as people. They never look happy anymore. They have been coached into a state of constant fear and paranoia over fictional bullshit for the good of the cause, and it hollows them out in a way that is frankly terrifying to behold. They're always defensive, always combative, strung tight like a wire and ready to snap at absolutely anyone or anything. You said the results are what matter; a high-strung, miserable, desperate, hateful electorate who will vote for whichever candidate inspires the most gut rage is the result of the Republican process. Is this the result you're looking for? Is this what you think we need more of? And what do you think comes next?
posted by IAmUnaware at 5:09 PM on June 20, 2017 [115 favorites]
With 4% reporting it's tied at 50.00 - 50.00, in case anyone was worried this wouldn't be close.
What's 4% reporting? SC is closer to 20%, and GA is less than 1%.
posted by Justinian at 5:11 PM on June 20, 2017
What's 4% reporting? SC is closer to 20%, and GA is less than 1%.
posted by Justinian at 5:11 PM on June 20, 2017
Sorry, Justinian. I was consulting the fivethirtyeight liveblog.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 5:12 PM on June 20, 2017
posted by Barack Spinoza at 5:12 PM on June 20, 2017
Oh, gotcha, they seem to have access to quicker update numbers than the NYT!
posted by Justinian at 5:14 PM on June 20, 2017
posted by Justinian at 5:14 PM on June 20, 2017
So, what's the theory about why different types of voting (early, early by mail, early in person, day-of) are favored at different rates by Rs and Ds?
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:16 PM on June 20, 2017
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:16 PM on June 20, 2017
Minority voters are more likely to have jobs that won't allow them to vote on Election Day, and more likely to fear discrimination at the actual polls.
Racism, pure and simple.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:19 PM on June 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
Racism, pure and simple.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:19 PM on June 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
Also, specific to this race, in round 1, you saw more Rs wait until Election Day because they had like 17 candidates, and people were making up their mind. The Ds coalesced around Ossoff early.
That's why there was much more R early voting in round 2.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:19 PM on June 20, 2017
That's why there was much more R early voting in round 2.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:19 PM on June 20, 2017
Parnell is doing better in Montana than Ossoff is going in GA. Hah hah. Hah?
posted by Justinian at 5:20 PM on June 20, 2017
posted by Justinian at 5:20 PM on June 20, 2017
Psst - Montana and South Carolina are significantly different places.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:22 PM on June 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 5:22 PM on June 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
The Republican areas in SC haven't come in yet.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:22 PM on June 20, 2017
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:22 PM on June 20, 2017
If Parnell is doing better in Montana, we're really in big trouble, since he's running in South Carolina.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:22 PM on June 20, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:22 PM on June 20, 2017 [22 favorites]
Ah, yes: the ol' "Montana Moral Victory"
posted by Barack Spinoza at 5:24 PM on June 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Barack Spinoza at 5:24 PM on June 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's the "When they go low, we go high" crap that cost them the presidency and senate in 16.
Don't forget to include Russian meddling and voter suppression and possible collision with foreign governments in your overly simple equation. So no, going high is not crap, it's deciding not to be crap.
posted by milarepa at 5:24 PM on June 20, 2017 [17 favorites]
Don't forget to include Russian meddling and voter suppression and possible collision with foreign governments in your overly simple equation. So no, going high is not crap, it's deciding not to be crap.
posted by milarepa at 5:24 PM on June 20, 2017 [17 favorites]
yes, yes, I meant South Carolina.
I will not abuse the edit window.
posted by Justinian at 5:25 PM on June 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
I will not abuse the edit window.
posted by Justinian at 5:25 PM on June 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
They never look happy anymore. They have been coached into a state of constant fear and paranoia over fictional bullshit for the good of the cause, and it hollows them out in a way that is frankly terrifying to behold. They're always defensive, always combative, strung tight like a wire and ready to snap at absolutely anyone or anything.
This is an accurate description of millions of liberals and progressives, including me, except our existential panic is based on facts instead of lies. What's your suggestion now that we're already here?
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:25 PM on June 20, 2017 [23 favorites]
This is an accurate description of millions of liberals and progressives, including me, except our existential panic is based on facts instead of lies. What's your suggestion now that we're already here?
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:25 PM on June 20, 2017 [23 favorites]
OK. Both seats are going to go comfortably to the Republican candidates. Disappointing but expected. The orange turd will no doubt see it as a victory for his agenda despite a D+8 swing in GA and D+16 swing in SC.
posted by Talez at 5:25 PM on June 20, 2017
posted by Talez at 5:25 PM on June 20, 2017
You can get kind of a weird Schrodinger's Election thing going in South Carolina, where the race can only be at all close if nobody pays any attention to it, because the reason it was so close was because nobody paid any attention and turnout was so low. If you bring a $51 million dollar national circus to the district, everything turns out completely different.
Note though that the votes we're seeing now in SC are not particularly representative of the district as a whole.
posted by zachlipton at 5:28 PM on June 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
Note though that the votes we're seeing now in SC are not particularly representative of the district as a whole.
posted by zachlipton at 5:28 PM on June 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
man the JCPL level must be off the charts.
No, as I posted (last night?) it looked like the last couple of days had a swing towards Handel, just as the last couple of days before the Pres election had a swing towards Trump. So I figured Handel would squeak it out.
I think the asshole who shot at the Republican House members probably swung enough votes towards Handel. His actions were worse than a crime; they were a mistake.
posted by Justinian at 5:28 PM on June 20, 2017 [12 favorites]
No, as I posted (last night?) it looked like the last couple of days had a swing towards Handel, just as the last couple of days before the Pres election had a swing towards Trump. So I figured Handel would squeak it out.
I think the asshole who shot at the Republican House members probably swung enough votes towards Handel. His actions were worse than a crime; they were a mistake.
posted by Justinian at 5:28 PM on June 20, 2017 [12 favorites]
Tonight the Trumps and Pences are having dinner together. Tomorrow Trump travels to Iowa for a Tech Week event in Cedar Rapids and a Trump-Pence campaign rally in the evening. He must be feeling blue since they've scheduled a rally to cheer him up. Also, he and Pence are sure spending a lot of time together. They really seem like an odd fit--especially the wives. Can't imagine what they talk about.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:42 PM on June 20 [1 favorite +] [!]
I'll do my best not to be snarky, especially since I haven't been in Iowa in ~15 years.
Around that time, though, I was told that Cedar Rapids/Iowa City were looking to make a "technology corridor" on the freeway that ran the roughly 20 miles between them. I never saw this in the newspapers. Only heard about through word-of-mouth.
I just googled "Cedar Rapids Iowa City technology corridor" and none of the links was worth sharing here (unless you like a web site with neon green or a site that talks about how it's now going to be the creative corridor).
I'm actually happy the tech corridor didn't happen since it was (probably, still is) a nice, scenic drive.
And, now with the snark: which is exactly why Trump chose it. To kill beauty by "developing" the land, latch on to a program that has been failing for decades and insist C.R./I.C. will be the next tech capitol of the world because he will make it so! (Every tech person I have ever met has expressed desire to move to a climate where, with wind-chill, temps fall below 0 Farenheit with regularity.)
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 5:32 PM on June 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:42 PM on June 20 [1 favorite +] [!]
I'll do my best not to be snarky, especially since I haven't been in Iowa in ~15 years.
Around that time, though, I was told that Cedar Rapids/Iowa City were looking to make a "technology corridor" on the freeway that ran the roughly 20 miles between them. I never saw this in the newspapers. Only heard about through word-of-mouth.
I just googled "Cedar Rapids Iowa City technology corridor" and none of the links was worth sharing here (unless you like a web site with neon green or a site that talks about how it's now going to be the creative corridor).
I'm actually happy the tech corridor didn't happen since it was (probably, still is) a nice, scenic drive.
And, now with the snark: which is exactly why Trump chose it. To kill beauty by "developing" the land, latch on to a program that has been failing for decades and insist C.R./I.C. will be the next tech capitol of the world because he will make it so! (Every tech person I have ever met has expressed desire to move to a climate where, with wind-chill, temps fall below 0 Farenheit with regularity.)
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 5:32 PM on June 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
Before just now, I hadn't visited the NYTs election results page since last November. It's giving me bad flashbacks, man.
posted by acrasis at 5:33 PM on June 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by acrasis at 5:33 PM on June 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
With 4% reporting it's tied at 50.00 - 50.00, in case anyone was worried this wouldn't be close.
Have any of the networks called it yet?
posted by bongo_x at 5:34 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Have any of the networks called it yet?
posted by bongo_x at 5:34 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Interesting how much faster the SC count is.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:37 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Chrysostom at 5:37 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Pro-Ossoff dinosaurs have been seen campaigning around the district
Is this helping?
posted by bongo_x at 5:38 PM on June 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
Is this helping?
posted by bongo_x at 5:38 PM on June 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
I just want to tell you good luck. We're all counting on you.
posted by tobascodagama at 5:38 PM on June 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by tobascodagama at 5:38 PM on June 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
NYT: Despite Concerns About Blackmail, Flynn Heard C.I.A. Secrets
posted by Chrysostom at 5:41 PM on June 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 5:41 PM on June 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
Just to pop in with some non-special election news:
Here's Jeh Johnson's (ran Homeland Security under Obama) opening remarks for the House Intelligence Committee hearing on Russian interference in the election. He discusses and defends his calls for more security in the lead-up to the election, but does not address the widespread intrusions into voting systems revealed in the document Reality Winner leaked, and is unequivocal about the situation:
In other news, BuzzFeed brings us Betsy DeVos Picked A Student Loan CEO To Run The Student Loan System
Here's Jeh Johnson's (ran Homeland Security under Obama) opening remarks for the House Intelligence Committee hearing on Russian interference in the election. He discusses and defends his calls for more security in the lead-up to the election, but does not address the widespread intrusions into voting systems revealed in the document Reality Winner leaked, and is unequivocal about the situation:
In 2016 the Russian government, at the direction of Vladimir Putin himself,The hearing is set for around 10am Tuesday.
orchestrated cyberattacks on our Nation for the purpose of influencing our election
– plain and simple. Now, the key question for the President and Congress is: what
are we going to do to protect the American people and their democracy from this
kind of thing in the future?
In other news, BuzzFeed brings us Betsy DeVos Picked A Student Loan CEO To Run The Student Loan System
When the Trump administration announced its pick to run the $1.3 trillion federal student loan system on Tuesday, there was one notable thing about the candidate that wasn't mentioned in the press release: he's the CEO of a private student loan company.posted by zachlipton at 5:42 PM on June 20, 2017 [18 favorites]
The Education Department's statement described A. Wayne Johnson as the "Founder, Chairman and former CEO" of a payments technology company called First Performance Corporation. It noted his Ph.D. in education leadership, and Education Secretary Betsy DeVos, citing his dissertation, said he "actually wrote the book on student loan debt."
But what wasn't noted was Johnson is currently the CEO of Reunion Student Loan Services, a detail confirmed by a company representative reached by phone on Tuesday afternoon. Reunion originates and services private student loans, and offers refinancing and consolidation for existing loans.
Does anyone know what measures they are taking to mitigate the security risks identified a few days ago in GA? I'm hoping results coming in slowly is a sign that they're checking their work, or something. But I don't really know if there's anything they CAN do really.
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:42 PM on June 20, 2017
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:42 PM on June 20, 2017
My read of Dem insiders on Twitter is that they think Ossoff lost. They've been pre-spinning a loss for the last few hours...
posted by gerryblog at 5:44 PM on June 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by gerryblog at 5:44 PM on June 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
No, they blew it off, at least to the outside world.
The round 1 count was super slow, too. GA is apparently notorious as a slow counting state.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:44 PM on June 20, 2017
The round 1 count was super slow, too. GA is apparently notorious as a slow counting state.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:44 PM on June 20, 2017
Does anyone know what measures they are taking to mitigate the security risks identified a few days ago in GA?
Yeah, the measures they took were "fuck you, that's my name."
posted by Justinian at 5:44 PM on June 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
Yeah, the measures they took were "fuck you, that's my name."
posted by Justinian at 5:44 PM on June 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
Is there an election where the Democrats can run against Expectations instead?
posted by GhostintheMachine at 5:46 PM on June 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by GhostintheMachine at 5:46 PM on June 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
Betsy DeVos Picked A Student Loan CEO To Run The Student Loan System
Because why not? It's not like anyone's going to do anything about it. This country, ffs.
posted by ctmf at 5:46 PM on June 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
Because why not? It's not like anyone's going to do anything about it. This country, ffs.
posted by ctmf at 5:46 PM on June 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
The fact that anyone is feeling the need to spin a D loss for Tom Price's former House seat is actually progress. Or so I shall tell myself so I can sleep tonight.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:47 PM on June 20, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:47 PM on June 20, 2017 [17 favorites]
Is there an election where the Democrats can run against Expectations instead?No, but there are lots of elections in closely-divided districts that Democrats can win without having to pull off a miracle. It's just that a lot of people find that kind of boring and would rather some sort of sports-movie style triumph against unbeatable odds.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:48 PM on June 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
Well, that's the thing - special elections for people plucked into the executive branch are usually safe seats, for obvious reasons. You expect to lose these seats. I 100% share the frustration, but I am very heartened by 2017 results to date.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:51 PM on June 20, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 5:51 PM on June 20, 2017 [13 favorites]
Latest from Wasserman:
posted by Chrysostom at 5:51 PM on June 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
We’re in a weird spot in Georgia 6, where Handel seems to be doing well based on the in-person early vote but the first few completed precincts look good for Ossoff. To be honest, I’m totally up in the air on this one right now and have no idea who will win. I’m more confident in South Carolina 5, where Republicans look like they’ll hang on, but by a much narrower margin than polls suggested.(FWIW, I believe Dave is personally a Republican, but a straight shooter and very sharp guy)
posted by Chrysostom at 5:51 PM on June 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm going to suggest that, whatever the results (and particularly in the case of a GOP win in Georgia, because I know how prone people are to prognostications of doom), we don't take them as being the final verdict upon the state of the world. If the last couple of years have taught us anything at all, it's that things keep changing in unpredictable ways.
posted by howfar at 5:52 PM on June 20, 2017 [36 favorites]
posted by howfar at 5:52 PM on June 20, 2017 [36 favorites]
Yeah, some of the numbers people are more waffley than others on what is going on in GA. I still feel like Handel will pull it out very narrowly but I am by no means super confident in that prediction.
posted by Justinian at 5:53 PM on June 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 5:53 PM on June 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
And, now with the snark: which is exactly why Trump chose it. To kill beauty by "developing" the land, latch on to a program that has been failing for decades and insist C.R./I.C. will be the next tech capitol of the world because he will make it so!Nah, that's not it. He was actually supposed to come right after his Middle East trip for a restorative campaign-style rally where he could bask in adulation, but he was too tired, so he postponed it. I have no idea why he thinks that he's going to get adulation in Cedar Rapids: my sense is that the people who hate him are a lot more fired up than the people who don't hate him. I think he's officially here to tour some tech-related program at Kirkwood Community College, but we all know that he's really here for the rally. I can't go to the rally, because I have a work commitment tomorrow night, but there's definitely a big protest planned.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:54 PM on June 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
If the numbers hold up (63k votes with 78% of precincts reporting) then, if my math is right, voter turnout in SC-05 will end up around 12% or so based on the most recent US census numbers. Unless there's a ton of votes in the remaining 22% of precincts that'll drive that number up.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 5:55 PM on June 20, 2017
posted by Hairy Lobster at 5:55 PM on June 20, 2017
I think they are lagging - the 538 and Decision Desk #s are about the same.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:59 PM on June 20, 2017
posted by Chrysostom at 5:59 PM on June 20, 2017
Here's something to take your mind off the races: the menu for tonight's dinner at the Pences
I can only imagine how boring the conversation will be. Karen will admire Melania's dress and her hair and her make-up and Mike will admire Donald's something or other...broad shoulders? It will be one long night of Mike massaging Trump's ego. Think Mike can risk a compliment to Melania without facing the wrath of Mother?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:01 PM on June 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
Heirloom tomato & cucumber sad with balsamic vinegrette dressingSo no wedge of iceberg with blue cheese dressing followed by burnt steak and ketchup and chocolate cake or chocolate pie with two scoops. Pence is going to have some splainin to do.
Filet mignon with red wine reduction, shoe string potatoes & asparagus
Mixed berries and cream
I can only imagine how boring the conversation will be. Karen will admire Melania's dress and her hair and her make-up and Mike will admire Donald's something or other...broad shoulders? It will be one long night of Mike massaging Trump's ego. Think Mike can risk a compliment to Melania without facing the wrath of Mother?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:01 PM on June 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm leaving the typo in the first line of the menu because it makes me laugh.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:02 PM on June 20, 2017 [63 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:02 PM on June 20, 2017 [63 favorites]
I bet the Tomato and cucumber ARE sad :(
posted by ian1977 at 6:03 PM on June 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 6:03 PM on June 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
The NYT numbers seem to match the Politico numbers, which only include precincts that are fully reporting, as opposed to partial reports. The graphic in the Politico report gives an interesting picture of how far things have swung in various precincts.
posted by zachlipton at 6:03 PM on June 20, 2017
posted by zachlipton at 6:03 PM on June 20, 2017
Here in the other GA (i.e. outside Atlanta), local TV isn't reporting on the results, although I am sure there will be mention of it on the 11:00 news. The crawl on the bottom of NCIS, etc. is all about the weather (it is raining a lot with some flooding risk). But as of a few minutes ago ajc.com has it neck and neck, with Ossoff slightly ahead. I will be quite surprised if he actually wins Leroy N. Gingrich's old seat, but even being this close is really amazing. Here is a political novice giving an entrenched political insider, who was proudly one of the architects of voter suppression in this state, a run for her money. It's not enough to make me optimistic, but definitely a little less gloomy.
posted by TedW at 6:06 PM on June 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by TedW at 6:06 PM on June 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
Decisiondesk has Handle widening to almost 2%. Probably getting close to calling it territory.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:06 PM on June 20, 2017
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:06 PM on June 20, 2017
SHIT THESE FUCKERS ARE SLOW COUNTERS
Counting votes is actually harder than you would think, especially if shit's contentious.
Signed,
a vote counter
posted by jessamyn at 6:06 PM on June 20, 2017 [43 favorites]
Counting votes is actually harder than you would think, especially if shit's contentious.
Signed,
a vote counter
posted by jessamyn at 6:06 PM on June 20, 2017 [43 favorites]
I eat a sad almost everyday. It's what I call dinner with overtired toddlers.
posted by lydhre at 6:06 PM on June 20, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 6:06 PM on June 20, 2017 [17 favorites]
John Lewis just got up and gave a preconcession speech at the Osseff returns party. It's over.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:08 PM on June 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:08 PM on June 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
I eat a sad almost everyday. It's what I call dinner with overtired toddlers.
Are you having dinner with Trump at the Pence's too?????
posted by ian1977 at 6:08 PM on June 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
Are you having dinner with Trump at the Pence's too?????
posted by ian1977 at 6:08 PM on June 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
I reheated leftover caprese chicken for dinner, because I needed some good news and sitting down to that is always a joy.
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:09 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:09 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
SC called for the GOP. (AP)
posted by Barack Spinoza at 6:09 PM on June 20, 2017
posted by Barack Spinoza at 6:09 PM on June 20, 2017
SC-05 is called for Norman, looks like 3% final margin? MUCH closer than polling indicated.
(Yours truly expected maybe 8-9 points)
posted by Chrysostom at 6:11 PM on June 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
(Yours truly expected maybe 8-9 points)
posted by Chrysostom at 6:11 PM on June 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
SC-05 is called for Norman, looks like 3% final margin? MUCH closer than polling indicated.The district was +18 for Trump. Definitely closer than anyone expected.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:14 PM on June 20, 2017 [12 favorites]
For a diversion from the news out of Georgia, Buzzfeed has a little quiz:
Can You Remember Which One Of These Trump Scandals Happened First?
(It may be trickier than it looks. Despite my obsession with the US politics megathreads, I scored only 50% correct.)
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:14 PM on June 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
Can You Remember Which One Of These Trump Scandals Happened First?
(It may be trickier than it looks. Despite my obsession with the US politics megathreads, I scored only 50% correct.)
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:14 PM on June 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
Betsy DeVos Picked A Student Loan CEO To Run The Student Loan System
Is he also a baby-eating dingo?
...the appointment of former industry lobbyist Tom Wheeler as chairman of the FCC was "the equivalent of needing a babysitter and hiring a dingo."
The same goes for hiring oil-man Tillerson as SoS. Or a climate change denier as head of the EPA. What the hell is with all these industry dingos in the daycare?
posted by adept256 at 6:17 PM on June 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Is he also a baby-eating dingo?
...the appointment of former industry lobbyist Tom Wheeler as chairman of the FCC was "the equivalent of needing a babysitter and hiring a dingo."
The same goes for hiring oil-man Tillerson as SoS. Or a climate change denier as head of the EPA. What the hell is with all these industry dingos in the daycare?
posted by adept256 at 6:17 PM on June 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
I got 7 out of 10...WRONG!
posted by ian1977 at 6:17 PM on June 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 6:17 PM on June 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
Randy Bryce has raised $100k in the first 24 hours.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:28 PM on June 20, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 6:28 PM on June 20, 2017 [28 favorites]
I got 6 out of 10 correct! I'm horrified I remember the order of goddamned tweets like that.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:29 PM on June 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:29 PM on June 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
6/10 right; thanks mefi politics threads!
posted by notyou at 6:29 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by notyou at 6:29 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
That's a tough quiz! It really is hard to keep it all straight, it's been such a firehose. But I got 8/10! Bragging rights until someone beats me!
posted by scrowdid at 6:31 PM on June 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by scrowdid at 6:31 PM on June 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
Well, now with 39% reporting, Handel is ahead 52% to 48%. 😡
posted by TedW at 6:33 PM on June 20, 2017
posted by TedW at 6:33 PM on June 20, 2017
Another 6 out of 10. Everything was familiar, but the timeline is a blur.
posted by Superplin at 6:36 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Superplin at 6:36 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Also, the SC elections site sucks and does not want to tell me the results for the the two State House specials.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:38 PM on June 20, 2017
posted by Chrysostom at 6:38 PM on June 20, 2017
MetaFilter: scandals and own-goals and random outbreaks of stupidity
posted by kirkaracha at 6:39 PM on June 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 6:39 PM on June 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
7 / 10 -- which amazes me because everything between January and May is a giant surreal blur in my mind. I mean, remember the Muslim Ban rollout and the airport protests? It was like a geologic age ago!
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:39 PM on June 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:39 PM on June 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Mulvaney won SC05 by 20.5%. Price won GA06 by 23.4%. 7 months ago. This is not a bad night at all even if we end up going 0 for 2. There are 93 districts less R than GA06.
posted by chris24 at 6:41 PM on June 20, 2017 [31 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 6:41 PM on June 20, 2017 [31 favorites]
honestly the NYT election meter is a really nice piece of visualization work; too bad about all the PTSD
Though the thing that produced the most T was that probability line graph that bent inexorably from 100% Clinton to 100% Trump in excruciating real-time. Am I right that the NYT seems to have dropped that? And in fact, they seem to have dropped all the probability-of-win calculations and visualizations -- I don't even find "probability" on the page at all. I hope that's true, and that they did it for the right reasons: I've been saying for months (well before the election) that presenting things in terms of win-probabilities was one of the worst things ever popularized by Silver, and is arguably one of the myriad factors indirectly responsible for Clinton's loss. I hope they realized how psychologically misleading it can be, and have ditched it forever.
posted by chortly at 6:42 PM on June 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Though the thing that produced the most T was that probability line graph that bent inexorably from 100% Clinton to 100% Trump in excruciating real-time. Am I right that the NYT seems to have dropped that? And in fact, they seem to have dropped all the probability-of-win calculations and visualizations -- I don't even find "probability" on the page at all. I hope that's true, and that they did it for the right reasons: I've been saying for months (well before the election) that presenting things in terms of win-probabilities was one of the worst things ever popularized by Silver, and is arguably one of the myriad factors indirectly responsible for Clinton's loss. I hope they realized how psychologically misleading it can be, and have ditched it forever.
posted by chortly at 6:42 PM on June 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
I want to focus on how wonderful these big swings are even if we don't win, but I still have fucking liberal tears because I just can't absorb that hundreds of thousands of voters, not just don't care about all the shit that has been happening, but are actively turning out to support it. I can't understand it, I can't accept it, and it's making me feel unmoored and miserable. These fuckers and their fuckery periodically make me feel uncomfortable conflicted feelings about my very wanted baby that I am about to bring into a world that scares me and that I struggle to understand.
posted by prefpara at 6:45 PM on June 20, 2017 [57 favorites]
posted by prefpara at 6:45 PM on June 20, 2017 [57 favorites]
Mulvaney won SC05 by 20.5%. Price won GA06 by 23.4%. 7 months ago. This is not a bad night at all even if we end up going 0 for 2. There are 93 districts less R than GA06.
THIS THIS THIS. I know how demoralizing it is to lose, BUT, both districts in SC and GA were safe Republican districts before. The fact that Democrats are now competitive in those districts, rather than losing by landslides, is something to hearten us and take note of.
Lose this time? Take note of what worked and what didn't and take that into 2018. I also think that getting out the vote is always going to be an issue with D's; they tend to stay home at the midterms and that is a Bad Bad Thing.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 6:48 PM on June 20, 2017 [63 favorites]
Re NYT page: Yeah, I believe Cohn said they dropped that bit.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:48 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Chrysostom at 6:48 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
The graphic in the Politico report gives an interesting picture of how far things have swung in various precincts.
Update: it turns out that it was a quite interesting picture indeed, but it was also literally bass-ackwards, in that it reversed the candidates' vote margins. The new graphic is up now, which they claim is now fixed, showing the swing to Handel from the primary.
posted by zachlipton at 6:49 PM on June 20, 2017
Update: it turns out that it was a quite interesting picture indeed, but it was also literally bass-ackwards, in that it reversed the candidates' vote margins. The new graphic is up now, which they claim is now fixed, showing the swing to Handel from the primary.
posted by zachlipton at 6:49 PM on June 20, 2017
Ossoff took 73% of DeKalb mail ballots, but I think he needed more like 80%.
Sigh.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:52 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Sigh.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:52 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
From Wasserman:
BIG news. DeKalb County just reported its mail ballots, pretty much Ossoff’s last hope. There were 7,448 ballots, and he won 73 percent of them. But believe it or not, that’s just not good enough. Handel looks increasingly likely to prevail tonight.And from Cohn:
Our estimate for DeKalb mail at the beginning of the night was Ossoff at 71. He only came in a little bit above. Not going to cut it.posted by zachlipton at 6:52 PM on June 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yep, that Politico error is why people were holding on to see what happened. Truly a staggering mistake. Handel clearly has it.
posted by Justinian at 6:53 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 6:53 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
What I've learned from tonight: Not only do more voters want to be driven off a cliff, they enjoy the sensation of being driven off of a cliff.
posted by Slackermagee at 6:56 PM on June 20, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Slackermagee at 6:56 PM on June 20, 2017 [11 favorites]
As long as "those people" go over the cliff before them
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:57 PM on June 20, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:57 PM on June 20, 2017 [18 favorites]
Remember that all this work easily added thousands of new registered voters and probably hundreds of organizers in Georgia, which is one of those states that is trending liberal, not just for President but for Senate, Governor, and other statewide races. And losing a close race makes people work harder next time, whereas a blowout is disheartening and a win makes you complacent.
posted by Glibpaxman at 6:58 PM on June 20, 2017 [57 favorites]
posted by Glibpaxman at 6:58 PM on June 20, 2017 [57 favorites]
8/10 correct but I have waaaay too much time on my hands. One of the very few buzzfeed quizzes I wanted to share on Facebook but the page is not found.
posted by bendy at 6:58 PM on June 20, 2017
posted by bendy at 6:58 PM on June 20, 2017
Scrowdid: Tied you.
posted by greermahoney at 6:58 PM on June 20, 2017
posted by greermahoney at 6:58 PM on June 20, 2017
Well, the good news is that I'm sure absolutely no one will use the outcome of this election to argue that whatever they've been saying all along is right and true and if only we listened to them.
posted by zachlipton at 7:06 PM on June 20, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:06 PM on June 20, 2017 [15 favorites]
Good thing Ossoff did as well as he possibly could have, so there's absolutely nothing to be gained from thinking retrospectively about alternative strategies. And furthermore all election results are imponderable, so we can never learn anything from how they turn out.
posted by chortly at 7:08 PM on June 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by chortly at 7:08 PM on June 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
I literally have no idea what you guys think should or should not have been done!
posted by Justinian at 7:09 PM on June 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 7:09 PM on June 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
Spending in the race by the campaigns and outside groups has topped $50 million, making it by far the most expensive House contest in U.S. history.
posted by shockingbluamp at 7:10 PM on June 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by shockingbluamp at 7:10 PM on June 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
My own feeling is that its clear that Republican voters can simply be counted on to vote much more reliably when a lot of attention is brought to bear. So pouring in outside money will help Rs more than Ds, as evidence by the disparate outcomes in todays races.
Democratic voters often would rather protest than actually vote. Republican voters will vote.
Also, the epic deluge in the democratic areas of GA-06 today didn't help. *shakes fist at the heavens*
posted by Justinian at 7:11 PM on June 20, 2017 [16 favorites]
Democratic voters often would rather protest than actually vote. Republican voters will vote.
Also, the epic deluge in the democratic areas of GA-06 today didn't help. *shakes fist at the heavens*
posted by Justinian at 7:11 PM on June 20, 2017 [16 favorites]
I don't care if he overperformed vs. expectations, or vs. other years, or vs. generic dem, or any of that.
I don't care if the guy in Wyoming or Montana overperformed either. Or Kansas. Or anywhere else.
The candidate who comes close does not get to make the laws. Only the candidates who actually win get to make the laws.
So long as we keep coming close but not winning, the laws will be shitty and biased and people will die.
I've listened to all the people saying "oh, well, take this positive from it." Hell, I've been that person.
But tonight, I'm out of fucking hope. I honestly don't think we can ever - EVER - take it back.
posted by anastasiav at 7:13 PM on June 20, 2017 [19 favorites]
I don't care if the guy in Wyoming or Montana overperformed either. Or Kansas. Or anywhere else.
The candidate who comes close does not get to make the laws. Only the candidates who actually win get to make the laws.
So long as we keep coming close but not winning, the laws will be shitty and biased and people will die.
I've listened to all the people saying "oh, well, take this positive from it." Hell, I've been that person.
But tonight, I'm out of fucking hope. I honestly don't think we can ever - EVER - take it back.
posted by anastasiav at 7:13 PM on June 20, 2017 [19 favorites]
I don't agree with "ever", anastasiav, but I do think today's result is a big problem. It may well be the death rattle for the ACA.
posted by Justinian at 7:15 PM on June 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 7:15 PM on June 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
Also, the epic deluge in the democratic areas of GA-06 today didn't help. *shakes fist at the heavens*
Maybe that's why the GOP doesn't care about stopping climate change.
See also this "joke" from a GOP politician in my native Michigan from a few years ago.
posted by dhens at 7:15 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Maybe that's why the GOP doesn't care about stopping climate change.
See also this "joke" from a GOP politician in my native Michigan from a few years ago.
posted by dhens at 7:15 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Democratic voters often would rather protest than actually vote. Republican voters will vote.
It's disgusting that 105,000 Democrats showed up in 2016 to SC-05 and Ralph Norman won this special election with only 44,889 votes. If every Democrat who showed up in 2016 showed up today then Norman would have gone down 2:1.
posted by Talez at 7:16 PM on June 20, 2017 [15 favorites]
It's disgusting that 105,000 Democrats showed up in 2016 to SC-05 and Ralph Norman won this special election with only 44,889 votes. If every Democrat who showed up in 2016 showed up today then Norman would have gone down 2:1.
posted by Talez at 7:16 PM on June 20, 2017 [15 favorites]
I'm sorry you're going through that, Anastasiav. Truly. But for those of us who can pull it together, we have work to do. Giving up won't help.
posted by greermahoney at 7:20 PM on June 20, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by greermahoney at 7:20 PM on June 20, 2017 [12 favorites]
Last thought; in the absence of the SC result, GA-06 would be seen as a quite bad result for Democrats. It's right on border between what 538 called status-quo expectations and "this is a bad sign for Democrats". But the SC result was much better for Democrats than anticipated. How does that affect how we should view things?
The question is will midterms in 2018 look more like SC-05 or like GA-06? I don't know.
posted by Justinian at 7:21 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
The question is will midterms in 2018 look more like SC-05 or like GA-06? I don't know.
posted by Justinian at 7:21 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
So long as we keep coming close but not winning, the laws will be shitty and biased and people will die.
There have been a handful of Special Elections held in districts where the sitting Republican was picked for Trump's cabinet. The congressmen being replaced were probably chosen precisely because they were in safe seats.
The laws will be shitty and biased and people will die but we have to keep ourselves together for the midterms.
posted by maggiemaggie at 7:23 PM on June 20, 2017 [20 favorites]
There have been a handful of Special Elections held in districts where the sitting Republican was picked for Trump's cabinet. The congressmen being replaced were probably chosen precisely because they were in safe seats.
The laws will be shitty and biased and people will die but we have to keep ourselves together for the midterms.
posted by maggiemaggie at 7:23 PM on June 20, 2017 [20 favorites]
It's disgusting that 105,000 Democrats showed up in 2016 to SC-05 and Ralph Norman won this special election with only 44,889 votes.
As an American citizen whose delegate has no vote and whose senator does not exist, I propose that I or any of my fellow district residents be permitted to exercise voting rights on behalf of those who have them but don't give a shit about them. So Democrats in states, if you have the logistical ability but can't be bothered to vote because nothing ever changes and it's too hard and what are midterms, I'll fly out there and use your vote. I'll pay for the plane ticket myself. If every DC Democrat who could afford to do that had been allowed to do it, SC would be ours.
since that is not yet permitted, the rest of the country owes us six hundred thousand Democratic votes in elections that matter. please place them wisely.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:25 PM on June 20, 2017 [31 favorites]
democrats ruled both houses and the White House in 2008. 9 years ago. The republicans didn't just go crawl in bed and die. Why should we?
posted by ian1977 at 7:26 PM on June 20, 2017 [63 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 7:26 PM on June 20, 2017 [63 favorites]
I think that catastrophic Negative Nancy-ing hurts more than it helps. "We can't ever take it back" slides into "welp, let's just give up." And then it becomes its own self-fulfilling prophecy. Timothy Snyder cautions against obeying in advance. That is what "they" want us to do.
This is a marathon, not a sprint. Democrats' problems go back quite a ways, specifically, I think, focusing too much on the Presidency and not enough on keeping local Democratic offices and party headquarters alive. This Rolling Stone article goes into that somewhat: The 50-state strategy devolved under Obama into a presidential-battleground strategy, leaving state parties starved for cash and leadership. So I think we are starting from behind in so many areas.
I can't find the article that mentions this (it might have been posted on MeFi): Republicans have a get-out-the-vote infrastructure in local Chambers of Commerce and churches. Democrats used to have unions (good) and political machines (mostly bad and corrupt), but now they don't have that. With the special elections, as Glibpaxman notes, voters have been registered and party infrastructure created.
I believe the big thing won't be "chase the swing voters" (who don't exist anymore anyway) but "get out the vote and make sure everyone who can vote, does."
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 7:28 PM on June 20, 2017 [42 favorites]
This is a marathon, not a sprint. Democrats' problems go back quite a ways, specifically, I think, focusing too much on the Presidency and not enough on keeping local Democratic offices and party headquarters alive. This Rolling Stone article goes into that somewhat: The 50-state strategy devolved under Obama into a presidential-battleground strategy, leaving state parties starved for cash and leadership. So I think we are starting from behind in so many areas.
I can't find the article that mentions this (it might have been posted on MeFi): Republicans have a get-out-the-vote infrastructure in local Chambers of Commerce and churches. Democrats used to have unions (good) and political machines (mostly bad and corrupt), but now they don't have that. With the special elections, as Glibpaxman notes, voters have been registered and party infrastructure created.
I believe the big thing won't be "chase the swing voters" (who don't exist anymore anyway) but "get out the vote and make sure everyone who can vote, does."
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 7:28 PM on June 20, 2017 [42 favorites]
If you're not from the area, most of GA 6th district is... well it went 70% for GWB. If someone is supposed to represent their district, Karen Handel is like a perfect composite of my worst instincts and biases about much of that area brought to life. Like if you said "Think of someone that lives in Cobb County or north Fulton" I'd think of Karen Handel. This NYT map pretty much shows the areas I go to in blue, and the areas I try not to even go to to shop in red, no kidding. I'm sorry if you live there, I'm sure it's lovely.
So yeah, it's surprising it was this close. And I really think it means something.
posted by bongo_x at 7:28 PM on June 20, 2017 [24 favorites]
So yeah, it's surprising it was this close. And I really think it means something.
posted by bongo_x at 7:28 PM on June 20, 2017 [24 favorites]
Mod note: Few comments removed. Folks, please, there are other places to go if you are feeling hopeless and desperate.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:29 PM on June 20, 2017 [31 favorites]
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:29 PM on June 20, 2017 [31 favorites]
Why should we?
Honestly? Because our side is basically ethical and we care about fairness. In fact, we bent over backwards to be fair to the other side. The other side, however, extends no such courtesy. We and they are playing by two entirely different sets of rules.
Bear in mind, I've lived under 7 years of Paul LePage. I've seen an up close and personal preview of all this, on a smaller and less deadly scale.
posted by anastasiav at 7:29 PM on June 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
Honestly? Because our side is basically ethical and we care about fairness. In fact, we bent over backwards to be fair to the other side. The other side, however, extends no such courtesy. We and they are playing by two entirely different sets of rules.
Bear in mind, I've lived under 7 years of Paul LePage. I've seen an up close and personal preview of all this, on a smaller and less deadly scale.
posted by anastasiav at 7:29 PM on June 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
Did people get so hopeless and desperate that we just made jessamyn turn back into a moderator? Because people are pretty damn hopeless and desperate, very much understandably, but I didn't know we had that power.
posted by zachlipton at 7:34 PM on June 20, 2017 [85 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:34 PM on June 20, 2017 [85 favorites]
For those truly feeling hopeless and needing to talk, I recommend Crisis Text Line at 741-741. They're experienced in this kind of thing. The average Mefite, although well meaning, is probably not. The right tool for the right task.
Take care of yourselves, friends. And let's be good to each other, tonight, and in the coming days when emotions may be raw.
posted by greermahoney at 7:35 PM on June 20, 2017 [13 favorites]
Take care of yourselves, friends. And let's be good to each other, tonight, and in the coming days when emotions may be raw.
posted by greermahoney at 7:35 PM on June 20, 2017 [13 favorites]
Remember, they hate it when we persist.
posted by emjaybee at 7:38 PM on June 20, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 7:38 PM on June 20, 2017 [21 favorites]
A 19 point swing nationwide toward the democrats translates to a fairly easy democratic majority in the house. And I suspect that we're just beginning the swing toward the democrats now.
posted by empath at 7:39 PM on June 20, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by empath at 7:39 PM on June 20, 2017 [19 favorites]
What I've learned from tonight: Not only do more voters want to be driven off a cliff, they enjoy the sensation of being driven off of a cliff.
Well, no. Nothing has happened to most people yet. Trump has done very little to affect anyone's daily life, outside of if you're an immigrant or happened to have been charged with a nonviolent drug offense in the last 5 months. He's shredding norms and making us a world laughing stock, and doing all kind of dangerous shit that could lead to war, but Joe Chick-Fil-A in the Atlanta suburbs doesn't care about any of that, and won't until its something that hits him in the pocketbook. Job losses, loss of health coverage, a stock market crash, unfortunately something is going to have to happen to suburban white people to get them to turn on Republicans in enough numbers to win these suburban white districts.
So yes, Trump is hurting Republicans, there's been double digit swings in all of these specials. The trend line is good. But it's not enough to win heavily red districts, and it may never be enough to only go after these districts counting on Romney->Clinton and Clinton/R-incumbent split tickets to cross back over and turn fully against Trump. There's still approximately 12 metric fuck-tons of work to do. The Democratic party is still at least half dead in most of the country. It's going to take more than 5 months to show results, and it's going to take a whole lot of pain for the Joe Chick-Fil-A's of GA-6 to win districts as hostile as that one.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:40 PM on June 20, 2017 [33 favorites]
Well, no. Nothing has happened to most people yet. Trump has done very little to affect anyone's daily life, outside of if you're an immigrant or happened to have been charged with a nonviolent drug offense in the last 5 months. He's shredding norms and making us a world laughing stock, and doing all kind of dangerous shit that could lead to war, but Joe Chick-Fil-A in the Atlanta suburbs doesn't care about any of that, and won't until its something that hits him in the pocketbook. Job losses, loss of health coverage, a stock market crash, unfortunately something is going to have to happen to suburban white people to get them to turn on Republicans in enough numbers to win these suburban white districts.
So yes, Trump is hurting Republicans, there's been double digit swings in all of these specials. The trend line is good. But it's not enough to win heavily red districts, and it may never be enough to only go after these districts counting on Romney->Clinton and Clinton/R-incumbent split tickets to cross back over and turn fully against Trump. There's still approximately 12 metric fuck-tons of work to do. The Democratic party is still at least half dead in most of the country. It's going to take more than 5 months to show results, and it's going to take a whole lot of pain for the Joe Chick-Fil-A's of GA-6 to win districts as hostile as that one.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:40 PM on June 20, 2017 [33 favorites]
We definitely have to beware of "learned helplessness." Despite the outcome tonight being somewhat unsurprising, I nevertheless take comfort in the fact that both demographic shift and sociopolitical progress continue to whittle away at the Republican stranglehold on the South.
This is not the victory we'd hoped for tonight. But we still have cause to hope for a brighter tomorrow.
posted by darkstar at 7:42 PM on June 20, 2017 [16 favorites]
This is not the victory we'd hoped for tonight. But we still have cause to hope for a brighter tomorrow.
posted by darkstar at 7:42 PM on June 20, 2017 [16 favorites]
Here's how losing is actually winning, let's break it down...
posted by indubitable at 7:42 PM on June 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by indubitable at 7:42 PM on June 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
Mod note: I an filling in for a few evenings so other mods can go on vacation and.or rest, carry on.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:43 PM on June 20, 2017 [84 favorites]
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:43 PM on June 20, 2017 [84 favorites]
Here's how losing an election isn't the same as an Heironymius Bosch painting come to life, let's break it down.
posted by ian1977 at 7:47 PM on June 20, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 7:47 PM on June 20, 2017 [15 favorites]
Here's how losing is actually winning, let's break it down...
An uninspiring Third Way candidate with no name recognition running a first time campaign couldn't win a seat that just voted for Trump by 23 points. All is lost.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:47 PM on June 20, 2017 [41 favorites]
An uninspiring Third Way candidate with no name recognition running a first time campaign couldn't win a seat that just voted for Trump by 23 points. All is lost.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:47 PM on June 20, 2017 [41 favorites]
A 19 point swing nationwide toward the democrats translates to a fairly easy democratic majority in the house. And I suspect that we're just beginning the swing toward the democrats now.
Yes, because everyone hasn't soured on Trump yet, and they will. He's not going to win anyone back, he's not going to turn it around, and neither are Congressional Republicans from the looks of things. It's a huge shift and it's not going to get better for them.
We didn't get the come from behind upset. That wasn't a given. But if Republicans are comfortable with today's results they are even more deluded than I think.
posted by bongo_x at 7:48 PM on June 20, 2017 [16 favorites]
Yes, because everyone hasn't soured on Trump yet, and they will. He's not going to win anyone back, he's not going to turn it around, and neither are Congressional Republicans from the looks of things. It's a huge shift and it's not going to get better for them.
We didn't get the come from behind upset. That wasn't a given. But if Republicans are comfortable with today's results they are even more deluded than I think.
posted by bongo_x at 7:48 PM on June 20, 2017 [16 favorites]
But if Republicans are comfortable with today's results they are even more deluded than I think.
Not only that, but republicans losing today would be a huge narrative that would have energized the republicans more than the democrats I think. Then winning might just equal a smidge more complacency on their part.
posted by ian1977 at 7:51 PM on June 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
Not only that, but republicans losing today would be a huge narrative that would have energized the republicans more than the democrats I think. Then winning might just equal a smidge more complacency on their part.
posted by ian1977 at 7:51 PM on June 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
Handel defeated Democrat Jon Ossoff on Tuesday. Trump tweeted his congratulations to Handel on her "big win," saying "we are all very proud of you."
posted by otto42 at 7:52 PM on June 20, 2017
posted by otto42 at 7:52 PM on June 20, 2017
So I live in North Fulton, bongo_x. With my same-sex husband in a suburban house in the woods with deer and foxes and fire ants and a garden and our fluffy mutt. And we like it. One neighbor is an old hippie with an Ossoff sign like ours and the other neighbor is a grumpy, retired psychiatrist with a Handel sign. It's a nice community and a lot of the Republicans that I have encountered vote that way because they always have and because they're not as plugged in as we are and just don't know what's been going on in DC. They go to church with other people that vote that way, they watch a little Fox News in the doctor's lounge at work, and that's that.
Or that's how it was until last Fall.
I moved here four years ago. I wanted to work in the city, but there weren't any jobs for me there, so we moved OTP and I took a job that was as close as I could to the city center. At first, I was afraid to discuss any political topics with colleagues and patients. But after November, there has been a palpable shift in not only how engaged the average person I encounter seems to be, but in how willing they seem to be to acknowledge that voting straight R may not be in their best interest anymore.
I'm not even sure what I'm trying to say. i think it's that I agree with you. This result was so incredibly disheartening tonight but I'm trying to find solace in the fact that on an anecdotal level there seems to have been a major shift in the way that Republicans and former Republicans feel about what's going on at the national level and I think that the results tonight showed that trend.
posted by robstercraw at 7:55 PM on June 20, 2017 [46 favorites]
Or that's how it was until last Fall.
I moved here four years ago. I wanted to work in the city, but there weren't any jobs for me there, so we moved OTP and I took a job that was as close as I could to the city center. At first, I was afraid to discuss any political topics with colleagues and patients. But after November, there has been a palpable shift in not only how engaged the average person I encounter seems to be, but in how willing they seem to be to acknowledge that voting straight R may not be in their best interest anymore.
I'm not even sure what I'm trying to say. i think it's that I agree with you. This result was so incredibly disheartening tonight but I'm trying to find solace in the fact that on an anecdotal level there seems to have been a major shift in the way that Republicans and former Republicans feel about what's going on at the national level and I think that the results tonight showed that trend.
posted by robstercraw at 7:55 PM on June 20, 2017 [46 favorites]
Don't forget to include Russian meddling and voter suppression and possible collision with foreign governments in your overly simple equation.
That the response for many Dems is "but they cheated" is kinda the point of that comment, I think.
posted by atoxyl at 8:02 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
That the response for many Dems is "but they cheated" is kinda the point of that comment, I think.
posted by atoxyl at 8:02 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Here's a perspective from a young Muslim living in GA-06:
Jon Ossoff came to my mosque Friday. He didnt try to win our vote, he just had a professional camera crew taking pics of him with hijabis.posted by indubitable at 8:07 PM on June 20, 2017 [90 favorites]
Ossoff didn't really need to promise anything or work for our vote bc all the petty bourgeois Brown Muslim Americans were fawning over him.
He didn't explain his policies. Just that we should have our phones out already before we approach him for pics to expedite the process.
He also came into our mosque w two huge bodyguards who were very clear with mosque-goers about how we are allowed to approach ~🌟Jon Ossoff🌟~
He didn't promise that he'd stand against "anti-terrorism" legislation which surveils Muslim communities and entraps youth in terror plots
He didn't promise to stand against legislation which makes nonviolent resistance (Boycott/Divestment of Israeli goods and services) illegal.
He didn't promise to stand w grassroots working against gentrification. There's a mosque 5 minutes from turner field, set to be displaced.
Jon Ossoff basically told us 2 things.
1. Vote for me because "Trump"
2. Have your phones already out for pics, we only have 5 minutes left.
We're not actually losing out on anything by not having Osseff in Congress, the win opportunity here was the chance to move the media narrative.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:10 PM on June 20, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:10 PM on June 20, 2017 [17 favorites]
I was better braced for this than for November, and so it hurts less. I think we all need to toughen up a bit and stop expecting there to be One Crazy Election Result that will fix the huge crisis we are in. There is no precedent for what is happening (other than human beings are inventive at fuckwaddery), but that also means we can't assume we know what will happen and that we should just give up and wait for the end.
We would be foolish not to talk about possible vote tampering--it's not whining to wonder if a hostile government that has already attacked our system will continue to do so, with the collusion of a party that has shown itself disturbingly willing to make that devil's bargain for tax cuts. We need to loudly demand more transparency and security of voting machines/counts and make a lot of noise about it. Hopefully all the votes tonight were legit and Russia had nothing to do with the outcome, but that doesn't mean we should be complacent about them wanting to manipulate things.
posted by emjaybee at 8:10 PM on June 20, 2017 [18 favorites]
We would be foolish not to talk about possible vote tampering--it's not whining to wonder if a hostile government that has already attacked our system will continue to do so, with the collusion of a party that has shown itself disturbingly willing to make that devil's bargain for tax cuts. We need to loudly demand more transparency and security of voting machines/counts and make a lot of noise about it. Hopefully all the votes tonight were legit and Russia had nothing to do with the outcome, but that doesn't mean we should be complacent about them wanting to manipulate things.
posted by emjaybee at 8:10 PM on June 20, 2017 [18 favorites]
Wowwwwwww on that comment.
In other news, can we get jessamyn a "substituteteacher" tag or something just for fun?
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:11 PM on June 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
In other news, can we get jessamyn a "substituteteacher" tag or something just for fun?
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:11 PM on June 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
The party was initially extremely skittish about getting involved in Georgia in any big way. As I saw it, it was mainly a lot of newly activated folks of the Indivisible mold, who started looking at the upcoming special elections after November and agitating to fight. That's where all the small dollar donations for Ossoff from California came from.
Around that time, there was some pushback, a sense from the party that they couldn't get too invested because they'd lose and people would get discouraged and they wouldn't refill the party's coffers after the race. And the fired-up-and-ready-to-go resistance said "no we got this. Win or lose, we need this fight and we'll keep fighting no matter what." And then the party got on board and the money poured in, forcing the Republicans to do the same.
My point with all of this is that you're proving the naysayers right if you think all hope is lost now and you use this to check out from the process, from fighting. Sure, the end of the last thread may be a warmer place right now, but what was the point in campaigning in Georgia at all if this is the end of the line for you? How do you argue that the Democratic Party needs to be fighting everywhere, but then declare all hope is lost when risky races don't go your way? If you thought this was the fight we needed to have in the first place, then don't prove the party brass right by using this as your excuse to give up.
posted by zachlipton at 8:15 PM on June 20, 2017 [80 favorites]
Around that time, there was some pushback, a sense from the party that they couldn't get too invested because they'd lose and people would get discouraged and they wouldn't refill the party's coffers after the race. And the fired-up-and-ready-to-go resistance said "no we got this. Win or lose, we need this fight and we'll keep fighting no matter what." And then the party got on board and the money poured in, forcing the Republicans to do the same.
My point with all of this is that you're proving the naysayers right if you think all hope is lost now and you use this to check out from the process, from fighting. Sure, the end of the last thread may be a warmer place right now, but what was the point in campaigning in Georgia at all if this is the end of the line for you? How do you argue that the Democratic Party needs to be fighting everywhere, but then declare all hope is lost when risky races don't go your way? If you thought this was the fight we needed to have in the first place, then don't prove the party brass right by using this as your excuse to give up.
posted by zachlipton at 8:15 PM on June 20, 2017 [80 favorites]
And when the morning light comes streaming in
We'll get up and do it again
Get it up again
posted by Chrysostom at 8:16 PM on June 20, 2017 [17 favorites]
We'll get up and do it again
Get it up again
posted by Chrysostom at 8:16 PM on June 20, 2017 [17 favorites]
I never could understand why Jon Ossoff got so much fawning attention, aside from the fact that GA-06 looked slightly winnable, when candidates like James Thompson in Kansas and Archie Parnell in SC were really so great at getting out and mixing it up with the people and appearing genuine. I hope they both run in the midterms (it looks like James Thompson is definitely running again).
posted by maggiemaggie at 8:19 PM on June 20, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by maggiemaggie at 8:19 PM on June 20, 2017 [16 favorites]
How do you argue that the Democratic Party needs to be fighting everywhere, but then declare all hope is lost when risky races don't go your way?Sweet Christ, thank you for saying this. All the New Indivisibles cutting lengths of rope to wrap around their necks over GA-06 are useless to the party if their enthusiasm can be stamped out by losing one very risky and unlikely race with a poor candidate. It's time to dust ourselves off, do a postmortem, and figure out what we can do to attract good, electable candidates to the Democratic bench and help them win elections.
posted by xyzzy at 8:28 PM on June 20, 2017 [87 favorites]
What's preventing the Democratic noise machine from yelling and screaming about "Death Panels" and "Taking away Grandma's Nursing Home" and "Freedom to Die in a Ditch"?
The gutting of Medicaid under AHCA is going to take away Grandma's nursing home, and the sooner voters know about it the better.
posted by msalt at 8:30 PM on June 20, 2017 [10 favorites]
The gutting of Medicaid under AHCA is going to take away Grandma's nursing home, and the sooner voters know about it the better.
posted by msalt at 8:30 PM on June 20, 2017 [10 favorites]
May I helpfully suggest future DCCC email blasts become less crazy in the future. Maybe it gets clicks, but it may not get voters to polls.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:35 PM on June 20, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:35 PM on June 20, 2017 [14 favorites]
Ossoff was a terrible candidate. I spent my fair share of evenings phone banking and even drove up there (I live about 6 hrs south of GA6) to knock on doors on a few weekends because I feel some type of solidarity with any liberal movement in the south, but there is no way this guy was going to win. A liberal lanyard-wearer with no real ties to the community will not defeat a Republican in the South. It will not happen. Down here we need economic populism, preferably tied to Christianity. It's the only thing that will get the 50 percent of people who don't vote out to the polls. Democrats seem unable to understand this.
I'm glad me and my fellow DSA comrades gritted our teeth and campaigned for this jar of mayonnaise (if only to stave off "Bernie or Bust" accusations) but holy shit does it feel bad to dedicate a lot of time to a candidate that you're not enthusiastic about and then have him lose.
posted by R.F.Simpson at 8:36 PM on June 20, 2017 [44 favorites]
I'm glad me and my fellow DSA comrades gritted our teeth and campaigned for this jar of mayonnaise (if only to stave off "Bernie or Bust" accusations) but holy shit does it feel bad to dedicate a lot of time to a candidate that you're not enthusiastic about and then have him lose.
posted by R.F.Simpson at 8:36 PM on June 20, 2017 [44 favorites]
I'm thinking of a sports movie metaphor, where the scrappy underdog keeps getting his ass kicked but keeps coming back better. Rocky III, maybe? We need to eat more raw eggs and run up some steps and punch sides of beef and stuff to get stronger.
posted by emjaybee at 8:37 PM on June 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 8:37 PM on June 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
GA-06 is a pretty expensive win. Not sure how often that much can be spent.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:37 PM on June 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:37 PM on June 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
I've noticed, in my long-distance social groups, much less attentiveness to the incessant, daily/hourly splugh of fuckall exploding from the Trump administration. I'll mention some random story from these threads and hear their eyes widen in disbelief, followed by a version of stunned silence and some iteration of "who thought it would be so bad".
"Like, all of them?" I want to say. "Literally everyone who watched 10 minutes or more of his campaign?"
The corporate news media is not working still. They seem pretty ready to do something but, management has a total lockdown on telling it like it is. And that has to change before anything else. David Brooks spluttering up half a culpa on his Clinton Deranging years ain't gonna get it.
posted by petebest at 8:38 PM on June 20, 2017 [13 favorites]
"Like, all of them?" I want to say. "Literally everyone who watched 10 minutes or more of his campaign?"
The corporate news media is not working still. They seem pretty ready to do something but, management has a total lockdown on telling it like it is. And that has to change before anything else. David Brooks spluttering up half a culpa on his Clinton Deranging years ain't gonna get it.
posted by petebest at 8:38 PM on June 20, 2017 [13 favorites]
It's time to dust ourselves off, do a postmortem, and figure out what we can do to attract good, electable candidates to the Democratic bench and help them win elections.
Amen! You know when I'll give up? When I'm dead.
Which admittedly, with Trumpcare may be sooner than otherwise, but...
posted by greermahoney at 8:40 PM on June 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
Amen! You know when I'll give up? When I'm dead.
Which admittedly, with Trumpcare may be sooner than otherwise, but...
posted by greermahoney at 8:40 PM on June 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
lol the emails. Being on the Ossoff email list was like the general election all over again (I just tuned them out because they went straight to my "promos" bucket). Like 8 emails a day with the most ridiculous subject lines. Every Democratic campaign seems to run with this same email strategy (it's not just Ossoff, just to be clear that I'm not really feeling the Ossoff pile on right at the mo' but I'll critique this email nonsense any time).
Is it like this if you donate to a Republican? Do they start blowing up your inbox with "CRUSHING DEFEAT!!!! j/k j/k the election is like three weeks away still"?
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:41 PM on June 20, 2017 [18 favorites]
Is it like this if you donate to a Republican? Do they start blowing up your inbox with "CRUSHING DEFEAT!!!! j/k j/k the election is like three weeks away still"?
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:41 PM on June 20, 2017 [18 favorites]
A victory would have been great, but the nature of the Republican win reveals their electoral weakness. The Republicans primarily funded their campaign from PACs and party committees rather than individual contributions, and used all the benefits of incumbency to promote their candidate. They could do that for a special election, but their party reserves aren't unlimited and they won't be able to have Trump, Pence, Ryan, and Perdue showing up to bolster every midterm campaign. Trump's approval continues to fall, so that's a diminishing resource; and their resources will be more thinly spread in a general election. All things considered, 2018 is looking good.
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:41 PM on June 20, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:41 PM on June 20, 2017 [11 favorites]
GA-06 is a pretty expensive win. Not sure how often that much can be spent.
DCCC IE spent almost $5 million on GA-06, compared with $340,000 combined on MT-AL, KS-04, SC-05 (all on Quist)
posted by indubitable at 8:41 PM on June 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
DCCC IE spent almost $5 million on GA-06, compared with $340,000 combined on MT-AL, KS-04, SC-05 (all on Quist)
posted by indubitable at 8:41 PM on June 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
I always donate and then immediately opt out of any further emails.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:42 PM on June 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 8:42 PM on June 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
In 2009, Republicans lost all 7 of the House special elections. We all know what happened in the 2010 midterms.
posted by chris24 at 8:42 PM on June 20, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 8:42 PM on June 20, 2017 [32 favorites]
Thank you, R.F.Simpson, (and everyone else) for your hard work. Thank you thank you thank you. You give me hope in dark times.
posted by greermahoney at 8:42 PM on June 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by greermahoney at 8:42 PM on June 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
I never could understand why Jon Ossoff got so much fawning attention
Karen Handel.
I guess we're going to start the self hating part of the program now.
posted by bongo_x at 8:43 PM on June 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
Karen Handel.
I guess we're going to start the self hating part of the program now.
posted by bongo_x at 8:43 PM on June 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
So, here are the results for the other two SC specials:
* HD-48 - GOP hold as Bryant wins, 61-39. This seat was unopposed in 2016; in 2014, the GOP won 73-27, so about a 12 point improvement vs that.
* HD-70 - Dem hold as Brawley wins, 78-22. This seat was unopposed in both 2016 and 2014.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:47 PM on June 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
* HD-48 - GOP hold as Bryant wins, 61-39. This seat was unopposed in 2016; in 2014, the GOP won 73-27, so about a 12 point improvement vs that.
* HD-70 - Dem hold as Brawley wins, 78-22. This seat was unopposed in both 2016 and 2014.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:47 PM on June 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
I think that the sooner we Democrats/Pogressives stop regarding this as a movie narrative where the designated hero can overcome all odds in a climactic victory, and look at it as an extended war, the better.
There won't be a white knight who will give us one decisive victory; this is going to be a long, extended slog with a lot of defeats, and progress measured in trend lines. The Republicans have known this, and they've followed this plan for forty years. So this war won't be settled in 2018 or even 2020. It's going to be going on for the rest of my life. So it's time to dig in, and for now, fight defensively.
posted by happyroach at 8:51 PM on June 20, 2017 [83 favorites]
There won't be a white knight who will give us one decisive victory; this is going to be a long, extended slog with a lot of defeats, and progress measured in trend lines. The Republicans have known this, and they've followed this plan for forty years. So this war won't be settled in 2018 or even 2020. It's going to be going on for the rest of my life. So it's time to dig in, and for now, fight defensively.
posted by happyroach at 8:51 PM on June 20, 2017 [83 favorites]
There won't be a white knight who will give us one decisive victory;
No, I've learned from the internet that it has to be just the right candidate. You don't want to go supporting just anyone.
posted by bongo_x at 8:55 PM on June 20, 2017 [11 favorites]
No, I've learned from the internet that it has to be just the right candidate. You don't want to go supporting just anyone.
posted by bongo_x at 8:55 PM on June 20, 2017 [11 favorites]
All we need is a candidate more charming and intelligent and accomplished and inspiring than Obama and Clinton and Sanders combined.
We need a liberal Serpentor.
posted by ian1977 at 9:06 PM on June 20, 2017 [17 favorites]
We need a liberal Serpentor.
posted by ian1977 at 9:06 PM on June 20, 2017 [17 favorites]
God forbid we blame the candidate for losing the election.
posted by R.F.Simpson at 9:08 PM on June 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by R.F.Simpson at 9:08 PM on June 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
In other news the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is reporting on its official Twitter that the Saudi deputy crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman, has just been promoted to crown prince and will also keep his post as Defence Minister in what many are calling a "soft coup". From what I can see MSB, as he is known, is a pro-Trump, anti-Iran hardliner. He is said to be headstrong; a risk-taker and has been in charge of the war against Yemen. What does this mean? Max Fisher from the New York Times says this will worsen regional proxy wars. He also tweeted that this ' is, about 100,000x more significant than GA-6. No, I am not worried, not at all, no, not being worried...
posted by vac2003 at 9:11 PM on June 20, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by vac2003 at 9:11 PM on June 20, 2017 [24 favorites]
Here's a perspective from a young Muslim living in GA-06:
So I'm explicitly not saying that this guy is wrong or not entitled to feel annoyed at how this campaign event went down, but there's a huge double standard between Democratic and Republican politicians here.
I have never once read a tweetstorm that was all "Marty Republican came to my country club Friday. He didnt try to win our vote, he just had a professional camera crew taking pics of him with rich white dudes. Marty didn't really need to promise anything or work for our vote bc all the petty small business owners were fawning over him. He didn't promise he agrees with 100% of the things that are important to me, even as he used my community for a photo-op. All he said was vote for me because "Nancy Pelosi" and have your checkbooks out for donations."
This doesn't happen because Republicans reliably sit down and vote for the candidate with the R next to their name without regard for a purity test or a need to feel suitably excited about the candidate first. (There is, of course, an exception to what I'm saying here, which is the 2016 Presidential election, where Trump did need to excite a few tens of thousands of people in PA, MI, and OH sufficiently.) It's just the accepted narrative for every election so much that we never question it: "will the Democrat get enough young people to turn out? Will the Democrat get enough people of color to actually vote? Will the Democrat keep the far left excited enough that they'll care?" Every single time in a competitive race, the burden is on the Democrat to pull off the impossible, to be as inspiring as Barack Obama and build the perfect coalition of voters. While all the Republican is expected to do is rant about Nancy Pelosi and socialism while seeking to spread gloom and depress turnout so that young people and people of color don't find the race interesting enough to actually vote.
And while it's great for democracy that candidates in competitive races have to earn our votes, that we can't be taken for granted, it usually seems that standard that only applies to the Democrat in the race. And it's annoying as hell.
Anyway, the fight now is health care. There's this huge disconnect between the excellent policy reporting health care and Congressional reporters are doing and the actual awareness of the situation that most vaguely-aware-of-the-news people have. I feel that many people have some general idea that Congress is messing around fighting about Obamacare, but have no actual idea that we're on the verge of 22 million people losing their insurance, Medicaid slashed, tax credits stripped away, premium hikes that will make coverage completely unafforable for older Americans, benefit cuts and policies like lifetime limits coming back, etc... So if you're feeling discouraged about tonight, maybe go find a few people you know who don't keep their eye on a special Tweetdeck list of health care reporters (I'm told that's 99.999% of the country) and let them know this stuff is happening like next week. Ask them to give their Senators a call, perhaps spread the word a bit. Not enough people are outraged about this right now, so share your outrage a bit, and maybe we can distribute it more evenly.
posted by zachlipton at 9:11 PM on June 20, 2017 [59 favorites]
So I'm explicitly not saying that this guy is wrong or not entitled to feel annoyed at how this campaign event went down, but there's a huge double standard between Democratic and Republican politicians here.
I have never once read a tweetstorm that was all "Marty Republican came to my country club Friday. He didnt try to win our vote, he just had a professional camera crew taking pics of him with rich white dudes. Marty didn't really need to promise anything or work for our vote bc all the petty small business owners were fawning over him. He didn't promise he agrees with 100% of the things that are important to me, even as he used my community for a photo-op. All he said was vote for me because "Nancy Pelosi" and have your checkbooks out for donations."
This doesn't happen because Republicans reliably sit down and vote for the candidate with the R next to their name without regard for a purity test or a need to feel suitably excited about the candidate first. (There is, of course, an exception to what I'm saying here, which is the 2016 Presidential election, where Trump did need to excite a few tens of thousands of people in PA, MI, and OH sufficiently.) It's just the accepted narrative for every election so much that we never question it: "will the Democrat get enough young people to turn out? Will the Democrat get enough people of color to actually vote? Will the Democrat keep the far left excited enough that they'll care?" Every single time in a competitive race, the burden is on the Democrat to pull off the impossible, to be as inspiring as Barack Obama and build the perfect coalition of voters. While all the Republican is expected to do is rant about Nancy Pelosi and socialism while seeking to spread gloom and depress turnout so that young people and people of color don't find the race interesting enough to actually vote.
And while it's great for democracy that candidates in competitive races have to earn our votes, that we can't be taken for granted, it usually seems that standard that only applies to the Democrat in the race. And it's annoying as hell.
Anyway, the fight now is health care. There's this huge disconnect between the excellent policy reporting health care and Congressional reporters are doing and the actual awareness of the situation that most vaguely-aware-of-the-news people have. I feel that many people have some general idea that Congress is messing around fighting about Obamacare, but have no actual idea that we're on the verge of 22 million people losing their insurance, Medicaid slashed, tax credits stripped away, premium hikes that will make coverage completely unafforable for older Americans, benefit cuts and policies like lifetime limits coming back, etc... So if you're feeling discouraged about tonight, maybe go find a few people you know who don't keep their eye on a special Tweetdeck list of health care reporters (I'm told that's 99.999% of the country) and let them know this stuff is happening like next week. Ask them to give their Senators a call, perhaps spread the word a bit. Not enough people are outraged about this right now, so share your outrage a bit, and maybe we can distribute it more evenly.
posted by zachlipton at 9:11 PM on June 20, 2017 [59 favorites]
Mod note: Several deleted, crank it back, guys.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 9:20 PM on June 20, 2017
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 9:20 PM on June 20, 2017
Anyway, the fight now is health care.
More from that famous Time Machine (via a team of Politico reporters): “11 times Republicans said [the] Obamacare process was too secretive.”
Plus they left out this one, which Johnny Wallflower mentioned in an earlier thread.
posted by LeLiLo at 9:22 PM on June 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
More from that famous Time Machine (via a team of Politico reporters): “11 times Republicans said [the] Obamacare process was too secretive.”
Plus they left out this one, which Johnny Wallflower mentioned in an earlier thread.
posted by LeLiLo at 9:22 PM on June 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
Data Security Firm UpGuard reports: The RNC Files: Inside the Largest US Voter Data Leak "In what is the largest known data exposure of its kind, UpGuard’s Cyber Risk Team can now confirm that a misconfigured database containing the sensitive personal details of over 198 million American voters was left exposed to the internet by a firm working on behalf of the Republican National Committee (RNC) in their efforts to elect Donald Trump. The data, which was stored in a publicly accessible cloud server owned by Republican data firm Deep Root Analytics, included 1.1 terabytes of entirely unsecured personal information compiled by DRA and at least two other Republican contractors, TargetPoint Consulting, Inc. and Data Trust. In total, the personal information of potentially near all of America’s 200 million registered voters was exposed, including names, dates of birth, home addresses, phone numbers, and voter registration details, as well as data described as “modeled” voter ethnicities and religions."
I can only hope the 1.1 terabytes has been delivered to the DNC.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:29 PM on June 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
I can only hope the 1.1 terabytes has been delivered to the DNC.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:29 PM on June 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
So I'm explicitly not saying that this guy is wrong or not entitled to feel annoyed at how this campaign event went down, but there's a huge double standard between Democratic and Republican politicians here.
What you have diagnosed is not a "double standard" but standard white supremacy.
Yes, the white folks at the country club don't need the Republican to do the work, because everybody knows what side they're on.
When a white person comes to a black or brown space as a campaign stop … hell yes they need to do the work! They have to convince folks that they aren't taking the vote for granted, that they will truly work to be a representative of that constituency and actively work for the critical causes and issues.
In the context of the comment that you're quoting, yours is hard to not tl;dr as "brown folks, sit down and vote Dem".
Also, hell YES we ("we") have different standard than the Republicans! We are working for a world for all people, and that is hard as fuck and demands lots of sticky political work. They ("they") are working for a world for themselves, and it's SO MUCH EASIER to get people to vote for that. You find someone who looks like you and you look them in their eyes and say "don't worry, I'll protect you from the things you fear."
I'm so so glad we're not taking that road: though the alternative route is much longer, and more difficult, it leads toward a world where we all have a place, and where we all can thrive.
posted by wemayfreeze at 9:41 PM on June 20, 2017 [52 favorites]
What you have diagnosed is not a "double standard" but standard white supremacy.
Yes, the white folks at the country club don't need the Republican to do the work, because everybody knows what side they're on.
When a white person comes to a black or brown space as a campaign stop … hell yes they need to do the work! They have to convince folks that they aren't taking the vote for granted, that they will truly work to be a representative of that constituency and actively work for the critical causes and issues.
In the context of the comment that you're quoting, yours is hard to not tl;dr as "brown folks, sit down and vote Dem".
Also, hell YES we ("we") have different standard than the Republicans! We are working for a world for all people, and that is hard as fuck and demands lots of sticky political work. They ("they") are working for a world for themselves, and it's SO MUCH EASIER to get people to vote for that. You find someone who looks like you and you look them in their eyes and say "don't worry, I'll protect you from the things you fear."
I'm so so glad we're not taking that road: though the alternative route is much longer, and more difficult, it leads toward a world where we all have a place, and where we all can thrive.
posted by wemayfreeze at 9:41 PM on June 20, 2017 [52 favorites]
And to be a little circumspect, I'm going to make a stock market analogy. No really, it's going to be awesome. Don't leave!
Pinning macro expectations on tonight's outcome is like pinning your investment hopes on a stock's daily performance. You want to invest in the underlying fundamentals of the stock (or company, really) that you're purchasing, because though it may rise and fall in the short term, it should consistently rise in the long term, if the fundamentals are sound.
Let's turn to the adverse case in this analogy. The Republican party has terrible fundamentals. They basically want to "govern" the majority of Americans straight into an early grave. They have no imagination, no ability to lead, nothing but the grift. And Donald J. Trump? He's not going to stop fucking this endeavor up. Ever. I'll set my clock by his continued ability to sow chaos into the Executive, until he no longer occupies it. The guy's going to continue to be a train wreck. Because that's who he is.
So yeah, the roller coaster's still going to go up and down on a day-to-day basis. But for me, I'm trying to tune out the hype of the day—as best I can in this insanity—in favor of focusing on the long term, the fundamentals. My faith rests on the fact that a) this clown car full of ass hats has nothing to offer, and b) they're fucking terrible at obscuring that fact. So we have to keep pushing, everywhere we can, to support opposing candidates who a) do have something to offer, and b) can reliably point out that we're being governed by a clown car full of ass hats, top to bottom.
It's a leap of faith, but I believe that the rest will work itself out. Reality has a way of winning in the end. And the reality is that the Republican party seems increasingly unable to mask the fact that they're useless.
posted by Brak at 9:42 PM on June 20, 2017 [18 favorites]
Pinning macro expectations on tonight's outcome is like pinning your investment hopes on a stock's daily performance. You want to invest in the underlying fundamentals of the stock (or company, really) that you're purchasing, because though it may rise and fall in the short term, it should consistently rise in the long term, if the fundamentals are sound.
Let's turn to the adverse case in this analogy. The Republican party has terrible fundamentals. They basically want to "govern" the majority of Americans straight into an early grave. They have no imagination, no ability to lead, nothing but the grift. And Donald J. Trump? He's not going to stop fucking this endeavor up. Ever. I'll set my clock by his continued ability to sow chaos into the Executive, until he no longer occupies it. The guy's going to continue to be a train wreck. Because that's who he is.
So yeah, the roller coaster's still going to go up and down on a day-to-day basis. But for me, I'm trying to tune out the hype of the day—as best I can in this insanity—in favor of focusing on the long term, the fundamentals. My faith rests on the fact that a) this clown car full of ass hats has nothing to offer, and b) they're fucking terrible at obscuring that fact. So we have to keep pushing, everywhere we can, to support opposing candidates who a) do have something to offer, and b) can reliably point out that we're being governed by a clown car full of ass hats, top to bottom.
It's a leap of faith, but I believe that the rest will work itself out. Reality has a way of winning in the end. And the reality is that the Republican party seems increasingly unable to mask the fact that they're useless.
posted by Brak at 9:42 PM on June 20, 2017 [18 favorites]
I have never once read a tweetstorm that was all "Marty Republican came to my country club Friday. He didnt try to win our vote,
There are important differences between what a Republican country club member has to lose if a candidate ignores his immediate concerns vs. what a Muslim-American has to lose if her concerns are ignored.
One side is literally fighting for their lives; the other side is fighting for a slightly lower tax rate.
posted by straight at 9:57 PM on June 20, 2017 [21 favorites]
There are important differences between what a Republican country club member has to lose if a candidate ignores his immediate concerns vs. what a Muslim-American has to lose if her concerns are ignored.
One side is literally fighting for their lives; the other side is fighting for a slightly lower tax rate.
posted by straight at 9:57 PM on June 20, 2017 [21 favorites]
The Ossoff-Parnell Lesson: Stop Chasing Romney Voters
The lesson of the special elections around the country is clear: Democratic House candidates can dramatically outperform Clinton in deep red rural areas by running ideological, populist campaigns rooted in progressive areas. Poorer working class voters who pulled the lever for Trump can be swayed back to the left in surprisingly large numbers—perhaps not enough to win in places like Kansas, Montana and South Carolina, but certainly in other more welcoming climes. Nor is there a need to subvert Democratic principles of social justice in order to accomplish this: none of the Democrats who overperformed Clinton’s numbers in these districts curried favor with bigots in order to accomplish it.
But candidates like Clinton and Ossoff who try to run inoffensive and anti-ideological campaigns in an attempt to win over supposedly sensible, wealthier, bourgeois suburban David-Brooks-reading Republican Romney voters will find that they lose by surprisingly wide margins. There is no Democrat so seemingly non-partisan that Romney Republicans will be tempted to cross the aisle in enough numbers to make a difference.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:03 PM on June 20, 2017 [42 favorites]
The lesson of the special elections around the country is clear: Democratic House candidates can dramatically outperform Clinton in deep red rural areas by running ideological, populist campaigns rooted in progressive areas. Poorer working class voters who pulled the lever for Trump can be swayed back to the left in surprisingly large numbers—perhaps not enough to win in places like Kansas, Montana and South Carolina, but certainly in other more welcoming climes. Nor is there a need to subvert Democratic principles of social justice in order to accomplish this: none of the Democrats who overperformed Clinton’s numbers in these districts curried favor with bigots in order to accomplish it.
But candidates like Clinton and Ossoff who try to run inoffensive and anti-ideological campaigns in an attempt to win over supposedly sensible, wealthier, bourgeois suburban David-Brooks-reading Republican Romney voters will find that they lose by surprisingly wide margins. There is no Democrat so seemingly non-partisan that Romney Republicans will be tempted to cross the aisle in enough numbers to make a difference.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:03 PM on June 20, 2017 [42 favorites]
It's a leap of faith, but I believe that the rest will work itself out. Reality has a way of winning in the end. And the reality is that the Republican party seems increasingly unable to mask the fact that they're useless.
Well, they control the House, Senate, Presidency, Supreme Court, a large majority of state offices, and are 4/4 in special elections this year. It's not lack of faith or defeatism to say that their strategies have worked pretty darn well, and that it may be time to think about making some significant changes to our own.
posted by chortly at 10:07 PM on June 20, 2017 [13 favorites]
Well, they control the House, Senate, Presidency, Supreme Court, a large majority of state offices, and are 4/4 in special elections this year. It's not lack of faith or defeatism to say that their strategies have worked pretty darn well, and that it may be time to think about making some significant changes to our own.
posted by chortly at 10:07 PM on June 20, 2017 [13 favorites]
Hah. Tom Porter, Newsweek: Pornhub says Washington D.C. Stopped Watching Porn During Comey Testimony [Warning: video autoplay]
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 10:21 PM on June 20, 2017 [33 favorites]
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 10:21 PM on June 20, 2017 [33 favorites]
Democrats Still Struggle to Overcome Their Right-Wing Propaganda Problem
If Democrats actually did better in the race that didn't get national attention, I worry that it means Democrats struggle to overcome the relentless, 24/7/365 demonization of their party in the right-wing media, which is basically the mainstream media in much of white America. The South Carolina race was ignored by the rest of the country, which means that allegedly nasty nationwide Democrats were never a factor.posted by tonycpsu at 10:25 PM on June 20, 2017 [59 favorites]
In Georgia, Handel voters weren't voting against Ossoff -- they were voting against evil coast-dwellers from New York and Massachusetts and California. They were voting against Nancy Pelosi, history's greatest monster. Watch this: [...]
Ossoff was attacked for getting too much money from outside Georgia -- as noted in the attack ad above, which was paid for by the Congressional Leadership Fund, which is, um, not Georgia-based. Neither are the National Republican Congressional Committee and the Republican National Committee, which contributed massive amounts of money to elect Handel (more than comparable national Democratic organizations). [...]
Democrats don't recognize this GOP propaganda tsunami as a problem. And no, Republicans don't have an identical problem with Democratic voters, because certain Republicans can win in virtually any Democratic state: Governor Charlie Baker in Massachusetts (and many GOP governors before him, including Mitt Romney and Bill Weld). Mayors Rudy Giuliani and Mike Bloomberg in New York City. Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger in California not long ago. Governor Larry Hogan in Maryland. Most Democratic voters think these Republicans are ... different. (See also Senator Susan Collins in Maine, or Governor John Kasich in Ohio.)
Democrats, by contrast, are nearly always seen to have liberalism cooties. It's a problem that needs to be dealt with.
They ("they") are working for a world for themselves, and it's SO MUCH EASIER to get people to vote for that.
this is the weirdest perspective. "these people want to kill you, help me stop them" is an awful lot more motivating to me than "I want to kill these people, help me do it because we're pals." I am not even number one on their list of people they would like to kill, but I sure am on there. What is easier to appeal to than terror and self-preservation?
but I am a consistent and regular "voter" so what the fuck do I know about the minds of the people. I did what I could to help Darcy Burner shove Dave Reichert out of the House, ten-plus years ago. like Jon Ossoff, she was good enough for anybody seriously weighing the candidates against each other on their positions and on their relative merits. but she wasn't great. and she failed, for that and assorted other reasons. I have all the time in the world to listen to valid critiques and complaints but when you have an entitled smug white boy on one side and KAREN HANDEL on the other there are two easy choices (whether or not to vote, and whom to vote for.) I do very much appreciate that being unhappy with some smug prick does not equal refusing to vote for him. and I also very much appreciate that voting for someone doesn't mean you have to lie for him or be nice about him. but everybody fucking vote for these jerks these next two-three-four years, my god. I want to live.
posted by queenofbithynia at 10:25 PM on June 20, 2017 [26 favorites]
this is the weirdest perspective. "these people want to kill you, help me stop them" is an awful lot more motivating to me than "I want to kill these people, help me do it because we're pals." I am not even number one on their list of people they would like to kill, but I sure am on there. What is easier to appeal to than terror and self-preservation?
but I am a consistent and regular "voter" so what the fuck do I know about the minds of the people. I did what I could to help Darcy Burner shove Dave Reichert out of the House, ten-plus years ago. like Jon Ossoff, she was good enough for anybody seriously weighing the candidates against each other on their positions and on their relative merits. but she wasn't great. and she failed, for that and assorted other reasons. I have all the time in the world to listen to valid critiques and complaints but when you have an entitled smug white boy on one side and KAREN HANDEL on the other there are two easy choices (whether or not to vote, and whom to vote for.) I do very much appreciate that being unhappy with some smug prick does not equal refusing to vote for him. and I also very much appreciate that voting for someone doesn't mean you have to lie for him or be nice about him. but everybody fucking vote for these jerks these next two-three-four years, my god. I want to live.
posted by queenofbithynia at 10:25 PM on June 20, 2017 [26 favorites]
It's not lack of faith or defeatism to say that their strategies have worked pretty darn well, and that it may be time to think about making some significant changes to our own.
I agree that it works/worked up to a point. To continue my stock market analogy, so did credit default swaps. Until they didn't.
The Republicans control the government at this point, on a strategy that conned voters into believing that Democrats were the ones obstructing their "agenda". That trick is all but used up. Correction is inevitable, and will be precipitated with proper work.
And I didn't stress the work aspect in my post, as much as I should have. It's still the key to success. And I agree that it involves a change to the status quo opposition that Democrats have fielded to date. Though the shrinking of margins in Georgia are noteworthy and commendable, Ossoff was still a far-from-ideal candidate to run for a real chance of winning the seat. Better candidates will help move the needle even further. GOTV will help as well. Applied pressure on all fronts is going to move the needle. Because it's going to become more apparent that Republicans as a party do not care about the best interests of the majority of Americans.
That's my leap of faith. It's what keeps me going back into the fray, despite the short-term setbacks.
posted by Brak at 10:33 PM on June 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
I agree that it works/worked up to a point. To continue my stock market analogy, so did credit default swaps. Until they didn't.
The Republicans control the government at this point, on a strategy that conned voters into believing that Democrats were the ones obstructing their "agenda". That trick is all but used up. Correction is inevitable, and will be precipitated with proper work.
And I didn't stress the work aspect in my post, as much as I should have. It's still the key to success. And I agree that it involves a change to the status quo opposition that Democrats have fielded to date. Though the shrinking of margins in Georgia are noteworthy and commendable, Ossoff was still a far-from-ideal candidate to run for a real chance of winning the seat. Better candidates will help move the needle even further. GOTV will help as well. Applied pressure on all fronts is going to move the needle. Because it's going to become more apparent that Republicans as a party do not care about the best interests of the majority of Americans.
That's my leap of faith. It's what keeps me going back into the fray, despite the short-term setbacks.
posted by Brak at 10:33 PM on June 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
I know this may be cold comfort, but I think this is actually the best case for the Democratic Party. If the Republicans had lost, they would be forced to take the threat seriously, now, instead of just kicking the can down the road a whole. Their Come to Jesus moment didn't come, and now they think they don't have to change for the 2018 election. But now, with their win, they think they're safe and can handle this in the normal way. The Democrats are consequentially going to clean up in 2018.
posted by corb at 10:52 PM on June 20, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by corb at 10:52 PM on June 20, 2017 [19 favorites]
But candidates like Clinton and Ossoff who try to run inoffensive and anti-ideological campaigns in an attempt to win over supposedly sensible, wealthier, bourgeois suburban David-Brooks-reading Republican Romney voters will find that they lose by surprisingly wide margins.
Clinton lost by the surprisingly wide margin of -3million! I admit that was a surprising margin to lose by, but I don't think that's what Atkins meant...
posted by Justinian at 10:53 PM on June 20, 2017 [33 favorites]
Clinton lost by the surprisingly wide margin of -3million! I admit that was a surprising margin to lose by, but I don't think that's what Atkins meant...
posted by Justinian at 10:53 PM on June 20, 2017 [33 favorites]
Note that I do think chasing supposed moderate Republicans is a fool's errand, but the rewriting of the election results as some sort of massive blowout offends me.
But there is no such thing as a moderate Republican. There are people who are comfortable with being identified with evil, racist, and classist views and policies and people who are uncomfortable with being identified with evil, racist, and classist views and policies but vote for them anyway. It's not the comfortable part I care about, it's the views and policies.
Those people are not going to vote for you because you point out those views are terrible. They secretly know that.
posted by Justinian at 10:58 PM on June 20, 2017 [27 favorites]
But there is no such thing as a moderate Republican. There are people who are comfortable with being identified with evil, racist, and classist views and policies and people who are uncomfortable with being identified with evil, racist, and classist views and policies but vote for them anyway. It's not the comfortable part I care about, it's the views and policies.
Those people are not going to vote for you because you point out those views are terrible. They secretly know that.
posted by Justinian at 10:58 PM on June 20, 2017 [27 favorites]
The news about Georgia is sad, but not unexpected. The news about the new Saudi crown Prince is both unexpected and very bad news if you're fond of Qatar.
The blockade is now in week three. There have been no viable, rational excuses for the blockade. We have 10k forces there, and associated personnel. It is our most functional land base in the region, for both sea and air, since we don't use the Saudi bases anymore.
Russia is getting punchy. Turkey is getting punchy. Iraq and Syria are powder kegs.
We are poised on the precipice of a something dark and scary. The new crown Prince is who kicked off this Qatar standoff, because of Russian planted fake stories. And he's already bribed our idiot in Chief with a shiny bauble, who always believes what his handlers tell him via Fox.
With Qatar blockaded, Palestinians are starting to run out of money, because a lot of territory operations are paid for by countries like Qatar and Jordon, and uses the Qatar banking system, iirc. Hunger in Palestine will lead to riots. Riots will lead to an IDF response, which may be enough to trigger Iran.
This escalation by the Saudis would make me nervous if rational humans were in control of the vast majority of players, but that isn't true. Hell, y'all, I can't think of even a handful of rational actors in leadership positions in that region right now. Including us. Fuck, especially us.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 11:07 PM on June 20, 2017 [63 favorites]
The blockade is now in week three. There have been no viable, rational excuses for the blockade. We have 10k forces there, and associated personnel. It is our most functional land base in the region, for both sea and air, since we don't use the Saudi bases anymore.
Russia is getting punchy. Turkey is getting punchy. Iraq and Syria are powder kegs.
We are poised on the precipice of a something dark and scary. The new crown Prince is who kicked off this Qatar standoff, because of Russian planted fake stories. And he's already bribed our idiot in Chief with a shiny bauble, who always believes what his handlers tell him via Fox.
With Qatar blockaded, Palestinians are starting to run out of money, because a lot of territory operations are paid for by countries like Qatar and Jordon, and uses the Qatar banking system, iirc. Hunger in Palestine will lead to riots. Riots will lead to an IDF response, which may be enough to trigger Iran.
This escalation by the Saudis would make me nervous if rational humans were in control of the vast majority of players, but that isn't true. Hell, y'all, I can't think of even a handful of rational actors in leadership positions in that region right now. Including us. Fuck, especially us.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 11:07 PM on June 20, 2017 [63 favorites]
The whole thing is weird. The idea that the Left will win when all the correct people run for office at the same time, on a platform most don't support or understand, THEN all the people will rise up and vote for them realizing the error of their ways, and until then we will just be governed by the Right. I wonder if there's going to stirring strings playing in the background.
Democrats are going to come back in power, and it will be because Republicans imploded, and it will be moderate voters that do it. So they will have the power.
posted by bongo_x at 11:13 PM on June 20, 2017 [12 favorites]
Democrats are going to come back in power, and it will be because Republicans imploded, and it will be moderate voters that do it. So they will have the power.
posted by bongo_x at 11:13 PM on June 20, 2017 [12 favorites]
A 50 million dollar election, evenly split I hear. They sure spent a lot of money to keep a red seat. And there was a 19 point swing? A Pyrrhic victory.
posted by adept256 at 11:18 PM on June 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by adept256 at 11:18 PM on June 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
Mod note: A couple deleted. bitterlyfightingforeverandeverandeverandeveraboutclinton.com is probably still available. just sayin'.
posted by taz (staff) at 11:19 PM on June 20, 2017 [81 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 11:19 PM on June 20, 2017 [81 favorites]
I love you, mods. You make me laugh even whilst scolding us.
posted by greermahoney at 11:22 PM on June 20, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by greermahoney at 11:22 PM on June 20, 2017 [18 favorites]
The question is will midterms in 2018 look more like SC-05 or like GA-06? I don't know.If they look like either it will be a blue house.
posted by fullerine at 11:32 PM on June 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
If they look like either it will be a blue house.
To quote my yiddish Grandma- "from your lips to gods ears!"
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 11:34 PM on June 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
To quote my yiddish Grandma- "from your lips to gods ears!"
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 11:34 PM on June 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
There are important differences between what a Republican country club member has to lose if a candidate ignores his immediate concerns vs. what a Muslim-American has to lose if her concerns are ignored.
That's absolutely true, and I minimized that to a somewhat absurd degree. But this is also a situation where there are two candidates in the race, and disengaging because your interests, important as they are, haven't been addressed enough is still making a choice; you're choosing to let other people vote for you and you have to live under whatever they decide.
And that puts people in really sucky situations. If you came to see the 2016 race as Hillary "Superpredator" Clinton vs Donald "black guys counting my money! I hate it" Trump or GA-06 as one candidate who uses you for a photo op without caring about your community vs one candidate with ads that scaremonger with ISIS fighters, it's not hard to see why you'd become discouraged, why not voting seems like just as valid as an option because neither candidate has earned your vote, neither candidate seems like they'll represent your interests, that the outcome isn't going to matter to you.
(Based on a perusal of his twitter, the "young Muslim living in GA-06" appears to have one particular issue that he cares passionately about, and short of "Ossoff should have an entirely different position on that issue," I'm not sure there's any middle ground there.)
But my point shouldn't have been that specific marginalized groups need to "sit down and vote Dem," but that everyone needs to vote, period, and vote for whoever they think is the least crappy candidate. Then, if you hate the candidate you just had to vote for, wake up the next day and commit to lighting a fire under their ass, commit to working in your community so that there are better choices next time. Which, yes, is yet another burden on people in marginalized communities. But as awful as some elected Democrats can be on many important issues, there are still certain really clear differences between the parties (one of them DGAF if 23 million people have health insurance next year, for example), and unless the electoral system changes somehow, one party or the other is still going to be in power with or without your vote. And it's hard to convince candidates that they should fight for your vote if you don't use it.
This is the debate right now in the Democratic party. Do you keep running campaigns filled with carefully calculated blandness to chase after a handful of arguably persuadable purple votes in the middle, the kinds of people who voted Obama in '08 but Romney in '12, or do you conclude that those folks are massive wastes of time and focus solely on getting new and disengaged voters to actually show up? As we've just flushed millions down the toilet demonstrating, you can't do both at the same time. But the cold political calculation comes down to which group is more fickle, and the consultants and the party brass keep coming back to the middle. We're stuck in this vicious cycle of viciousness where disengaged voters don't turn out for uninspiring campaigns, but we don't get inspiring campaigns because people don't think disengaged voters will turn out, because they don't, because the campaigns are uninspiring, and on it goes.
And this insistence that campaigns be suitably inspiring masks that truly inspiring once-in-a-generation political talent only comes along so often, that inspiring campaigns often don't make for equally inspiring politicians once they're in office, and it's often used as code for "didn't push for my preferred policies." Barack Obama, Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton, and yes, Donald Trump were all incredibly inspiring to significant groups of voters for different reasons. Were there 10,000 people who stayed home in GA-06 and would have turned out if Ossoff pushed for single payer health care? If he had, would 1,000 folks on the fence have shaken their head and said "ugh, that's Nancy Pelosi socialism" (sidenote: Pelosi doesn't support single payer; we've been asking her to) and gone for Handel, who says "Obamacare is the single biggest intrusion into the lives of Americans in decades?" I don't have an answer to that question, but I'm suitably skeptical of anyone who thinks the answer is that it would have been an obvious Ossoff win.
Democrats should have to earn every vote and shouldn't take any voters for granted. Every candidate should. But it's deeply frustrating that, even in the most basic narratives we use to describe elections, Republicans are never expected to do the same.
posted by zachlipton at 11:40 PM on June 20, 2017 [45 favorites]
That's absolutely true, and I minimized that to a somewhat absurd degree. But this is also a situation where there are two candidates in the race, and disengaging because your interests, important as they are, haven't been addressed enough is still making a choice; you're choosing to let other people vote for you and you have to live under whatever they decide.
And that puts people in really sucky situations. If you came to see the 2016 race as Hillary "Superpredator" Clinton vs Donald "black guys counting my money! I hate it" Trump or GA-06 as one candidate who uses you for a photo op without caring about your community vs one candidate with ads that scaremonger with ISIS fighters, it's not hard to see why you'd become discouraged, why not voting seems like just as valid as an option because neither candidate has earned your vote, neither candidate seems like they'll represent your interests, that the outcome isn't going to matter to you.
(Based on a perusal of his twitter, the "young Muslim living in GA-06" appears to have one particular issue that he cares passionately about, and short of "Ossoff should have an entirely different position on that issue," I'm not sure there's any middle ground there.)
But my point shouldn't have been that specific marginalized groups need to "sit down and vote Dem," but that everyone needs to vote, period, and vote for whoever they think is the least crappy candidate. Then, if you hate the candidate you just had to vote for, wake up the next day and commit to lighting a fire under their ass, commit to working in your community so that there are better choices next time. Which, yes, is yet another burden on people in marginalized communities. But as awful as some elected Democrats can be on many important issues, there are still certain really clear differences between the parties (one of them DGAF if 23 million people have health insurance next year, for example), and unless the electoral system changes somehow, one party or the other is still going to be in power with or without your vote. And it's hard to convince candidates that they should fight for your vote if you don't use it.
This is the debate right now in the Democratic party. Do you keep running campaigns filled with carefully calculated blandness to chase after a handful of arguably persuadable purple votes in the middle, the kinds of people who voted Obama in '08 but Romney in '12, or do you conclude that those folks are massive wastes of time and focus solely on getting new and disengaged voters to actually show up? As we've just flushed millions down the toilet demonstrating, you can't do both at the same time. But the cold political calculation comes down to which group is more fickle, and the consultants and the party brass keep coming back to the middle. We're stuck in this vicious cycle of viciousness where disengaged voters don't turn out for uninspiring campaigns, but we don't get inspiring campaigns because people don't think disengaged voters will turn out, because they don't, because the campaigns are uninspiring, and on it goes.
And this insistence that campaigns be suitably inspiring masks that truly inspiring once-in-a-generation political talent only comes along so often, that inspiring campaigns often don't make for equally inspiring politicians once they're in office, and it's often used as code for "didn't push for my preferred policies." Barack Obama, Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton, and yes, Donald Trump were all incredibly inspiring to significant groups of voters for different reasons. Were there 10,000 people who stayed home in GA-06 and would have turned out if Ossoff pushed for single payer health care? If he had, would 1,000 folks on the fence have shaken their head and said "ugh, that's Nancy Pelosi socialism" (sidenote: Pelosi doesn't support single payer; we've been asking her to) and gone for Handel, who says "Obamacare is the single biggest intrusion into the lives of Americans in decades?" I don't have an answer to that question, but I'm suitably skeptical of anyone who thinks the answer is that it would have been an obvious Ossoff win.
Democrats should have to earn every vote and shouldn't take any voters for granted. Every candidate should. But it's deeply frustrating that, even in the most basic narratives we use to describe elections, Republicans are never expected to do the same.
posted by zachlipton at 11:40 PM on June 20, 2017 [45 favorites]
What if politicians began talking about what they actually believe? What if they actually engaged with people at town halls, both listening to their needs and explaining the stuff that people need to understand when they vote? What if they did their jobs? I know, some do, but too many don't even try.
Today, the electorate is seen by many politicians as the customer base, the political issues as goods to be sold and instead of trying to convince us that their political platform is legitimate and good using arguments, the politicians are doing market analysis on us so they can target us with appealing slogans. The parties are seen as brands to be managed rather than organizations where political debates are held, and maintaining the brand is all important. In short, our leaders are not leading, they are following.
Back in the day when politicians had convictions, the maturing you went through was to accept that even if representative A didn't share your each and every passion, she was the most likely to work for most of your political aims. Now maturing is to realize that party X starves less grannies than party Y, so you have to vote to keep party Y out of business. If your own granny is starving regardless, that might not be a strong motivator.
On the other side: it is not at all strange that white middle class voters vote more. Voting is participation, albeit at the lowest level, and if you feel you are part of society you also feel you have to vote. It can seem strange that people who pay very little in taxes or who are receiving welfare benefits consistently vote for lower taxes and less benefits, but we all know what that is about.
IMO, the real task for the Dems is to get all their potential voters to feel it makes sense for them to participate, because they are part of society. Then maybe some districts would be a bit more left leaning and some a bit more right leaning, it wouldn't matter that much. The real problem is that millions of people feel they have no stake in society at any level and that these people are the core constituency of the Democratic Party.
posted by mumimor at 1:13 AM on June 21, 2017 [11 favorites]
Today, the electorate is seen by many politicians as the customer base, the political issues as goods to be sold and instead of trying to convince us that their political platform is legitimate and good using arguments, the politicians are doing market analysis on us so they can target us with appealing slogans. The parties are seen as brands to be managed rather than organizations where political debates are held, and maintaining the brand is all important. In short, our leaders are not leading, they are following.
Back in the day when politicians had convictions, the maturing you went through was to accept that even if representative A didn't share your each and every passion, she was the most likely to work for most of your political aims. Now maturing is to realize that party X starves less grannies than party Y, so you have to vote to keep party Y out of business. If your own granny is starving regardless, that might not be a strong motivator.
On the other side: it is not at all strange that white middle class voters vote more. Voting is participation, albeit at the lowest level, and if you feel you are part of society you also feel you have to vote. It can seem strange that people who pay very little in taxes or who are receiving welfare benefits consistently vote for lower taxes and less benefits, but we all know what that is about.
IMO, the real task for the Dems is to get all their potential voters to feel it makes sense for them to participate, because they are part of society. Then maybe some districts would be a bit more left leaning and some a bit more right leaning, it wouldn't matter that much. The real problem is that millions of people feel they have no stake in society at any level and that these people are the core constituency of the Democratic Party.
posted by mumimor at 1:13 AM on June 21, 2017 [11 favorites]
"The stakes are higher for me, and that's why I don't vote" is not an argument that makes any sense to me.
If you have a lot to lose, why on earth would you fold? Even if you got dealt a bad hand, a bad candidate, you play it out. Because you are invested, and you can't afford to give up.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:27 AM on June 21, 2017 [8 favorites]
If you have a lot to lose, why on earth would you fold? Even if you got dealt a bad hand, a bad candidate, you play it out. Because you are invested, and you can't afford to give up.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:27 AM on June 21, 2017 [8 favorites]
even in the most basic narratives we use to describe elections, Republicans are never expected to do the same.
Republicans just want to win whereas Democrats not only want to win, they want to win the correct way with the correct person. The head of the Republican Party right now is literally a coastal elite billionaire with an immigrant wife and he mumbles platitudes about religion but you'd have to be pretty delusional to think he believes in anything other than himself. Yet he's the head of the party of REAL AMERICA that hates immigrants and loves Jesus because they don't care so long as he does what they want.
In the meantime, the left and the Democrats are picking over the bones of Hillary Clinton's campaign, which largely came down to not really whether she'd do what they want but whether, deep down in her heart of hearts, she really believed it.
But I think in a larger sense it's easier if your entire message is "The system is broken so let's burn it all down," because all you care about is who is bringing the torches and gasoline. Whereas if your sentiment is "Okay the system is great, let's build a much better one," you're posing a much more complicated question that's hard to soundbite.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 1:39 AM on June 21, 2017 [47 favorites]
Republicans just want to win whereas Democrats not only want to win, they want to win the correct way with the correct person. The head of the Republican Party right now is literally a coastal elite billionaire with an immigrant wife and he mumbles platitudes about religion but you'd have to be pretty delusional to think he believes in anything other than himself. Yet he's the head of the party of REAL AMERICA that hates immigrants and loves Jesus because they don't care so long as he does what they want.
In the meantime, the left and the Democrats are picking over the bones of Hillary Clinton's campaign, which largely came down to not really whether she'd do what they want but whether, deep down in her heart of hearts, she really believed it.
But I think in a larger sense it's easier if your entire message is "The system is broken so let's burn it all down," because all you care about is who is bringing the torches and gasoline. Whereas if your sentiment is "Okay the system is great, let's build a much better one," you're posing a much more complicated question that's hard to soundbite.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 1:39 AM on June 21, 2017 [47 favorites]
Hah. Tom Porter, Newsweek: Pornhub says Washington D.C. Stopped Watching Porn During Comey Testimony [Warning: video autoplay]
posted by cybercoitus interruptus
eponanisterical
posted by progosk at 2:02 AM on June 21, 2017 [40 favorites]
posted by cybercoitus interruptus
eponanisterical
posted by progosk at 2:02 AM on June 21, 2017 [40 favorites]
I think you mean "epornysterical"
posted by taz at 2:18 AM on June 21, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by taz at 2:18 AM on June 21, 2017 [28 favorites]
eh...I thought it was a subtle acknowledgement of all the wankers (a.k.a. onanists) in D.C.
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 3:02 AM on June 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 3:02 AM on June 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
Hah. Tom Porter, Newsweek: Pornhub says Washington D.C. Stopped Watching Porn During Comey Testimony
No they didn't. They just watched their porn on CSPAN instead of Pornhub.
posted by Rykey at 3:20 AM on June 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
No they didn't. They just watched their porn on CSPAN instead of Pornhub.
posted by Rykey at 3:20 AM on June 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
[disruption of election via ways] for the purpose of influencing our election – plain and simple. Now, the key question for the President and Congress is: what are we going to do to protect the American people and their democracy from this kind of thing in the future?
And how should the rest of the world react, along with Americans, when the program of Gladio and Gladio 2 was reveled to the world?
People actually DIED in the Gladio election manipulation events.
posted by rough ashlar at 3:26 AM on June 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
And how should the rest of the world react, along with Americans, when the program of Gladio and Gladio 2 was reveled to the world?
People actually DIED in the Gladio election manipulation events.
posted by rough ashlar at 3:26 AM on June 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
This escalation by the Saudis would make me nervous
Remember also that the Saudis are wanting/building nuke plants.
The whole 1950's "peaceful atom" was a way to prevent people from saying:
Ya build these water-style reactors because you want material for atomic weapons.
Do having your own nukes make for good neighbors? I'm guessing we'll 1st find out with North Korea.
posted by rough ashlar at 3:40 AM on June 21, 2017
Remember also that the Saudis are wanting/building nuke plants.
The whole 1950's "peaceful atom" was a way to prevent people from saying:
Ya build these water-style reactors because you want material for atomic weapons.
Do having your own nukes make for good neighbors? I'm guessing we'll 1st find out with North Korea.
posted by rough ashlar at 3:40 AM on June 21, 2017
Republicans don't care who their candidates are because Republicanism isn't an ideology, it's an identity.
posted by soren_lorensen at 3:59 AM on June 21, 2017 [31 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 3:59 AM on June 21, 2017 [31 favorites]
The gutting of Medicaid under AHCA is going to take away Grandma's nursing home, [forcing her to spend away your inheritance and meaning she comes to live with you after all the money is gone] , and the sooner voters know about it the better.
There - fixed that in a way that will get the attention and motivation of the voters.
posted by rough ashlar at 4:01 AM on June 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
There - fixed that in a way that will get the attention and motivation of the voters.
posted by rough ashlar at 4:01 AM on June 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
But candidates like Clinton and Ossoff who try to run inoffensive and anti-ideological campaigns in an attempt to win over supposedly sensible, wealthier, bourgeois suburban David-Brooks-reading Republican Romney voters will find that they lose by surprisingly wide margins. There is no Democrat so seemingly non-partisan that Romney Republicans will be tempted to cross the aisle in enough numbers to make a difference.
Or he did pretty darn well in a very R district that hasn't gone D since 1979 and sent Gingrich to Congress for over a decade before Price. A district that Rs historically win by 20 points, where he, a 30 year old first time candidate, came within 1.9 points of winning outright in the primary and bested 11/16 by 19 points. A district in a state where Hillary crushed Bernie by 43 points, so not only is it a Republican district, the Democrats weren't that interested in Bernie's spiel. Not everything is proof of someone's agenda or a proxy for relitigating the primaries. Sometimes it's just a bad playing field where you come close, register a lot of voters, build organization and come back to fight again in 2018. There are 93 less conservative districts than GA06. We need 24 in 2018.
posted by chris24 at 4:07 AM on June 21, 2017 [68 favorites]
Or he did pretty darn well in a very R district that hasn't gone D since 1979 and sent Gingrich to Congress for over a decade before Price. A district that Rs historically win by 20 points, where he, a 30 year old first time candidate, came within 1.9 points of winning outright in the primary and bested 11/16 by 19 points. A district in a state where Hillary crushed Bernie by 43 points, so not only is it a Republican district, the Democrats weren't that interested in Bernie's spiel. Not everything is proof of someone's agenda or a proxy for relitigating the primaries. Sometimes it's just a bad playing field where you come close, register a lot of voters, build organization and come back to fight again in 2018. There are 93 less conservative districts than GA06. We need 24 in 2018.
posted by chris24 at 4:07 AM on June 21, 2017 [68 favorites]
Have the Feds Really Flipped Michael Flynn? (Allegra Kirkland, TPM)
posted by Barack Spinoza at 4:36 AM on June 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Barack Spinoza at 4:36 AM on June 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Thoughts on the Disappointing Result Out of Georgia 6 (Josh Marshall, TPM)
What Democrats need to resist at all costs is the temperamental inclination to fall into spasms of self-loathing over this defeat – specifically, the idea that there’s something fundamentally wrong with the party because of this loss. I saw one Democrat on Twitter tonight ask if Ossoff’s loss didn’t mean “the Democratic party apparatus needs a total overhaul on every single level?”posted by Barack Spinoza at 4:40 AM on June 21, 2017 [51 favorites]
Maybe the Democrats do need a fundamental overhaul. But doing 10 to 15 points better than a House candidate has done in this district since the 1970s simply isn’t evidence for that. There’s also a toxic desire on the part of many to use this painful defeat as an opening to relitigate intra-party grievances. Losing is hard. Taking a loss and getting up the next day to keep fighting to get to the next level takes endurance and guts. Many cannot resist the temptation to trade that sting for a toxic self-validation. All I can say to that is that parties build majorities by finding ways to unite competing factions over common interests and goals – something Donald Trump should help with a lot. They almost never get there when they are locked in internecine struggle or when either faction thinks it can or does destroy the other. That’s just not how it works.
I truly think the message from Ds to Rs now has to be "we are coming for you motherfuckers -- and we are getting closer and closer." They are the confident swimmers and we are Jaws: big, powerful, and not visible from the surface -- but we are coming. That ominous music is getting louder.
posted by GrammarMoses at 4:52 AM on June 21, 2017 [33 favorites]
posted by GrammarMoses at 4:52 AM on June 21, 2017 [33 favorites]
We would be foolish not to talk about possible vote tampering--it's not whining to wonder if a hostile government that has already attacked our system will continue to do so, with the collusion of a party that has shown itself disturbingly willing to make that devil's bargain for tax cuts. We need to loudly demand more transparency and security of voting machines/counts and make a lot of noise about it. Hopefully all the votes tonight were legit and Russia had nothing to do with the outcome, but that doesn't mean we should be complacent about them wanting to manipulate things.
posted by emjaybee
^ THIS. THIS, THIS, THIS.
posted by yoga at 5:05 AM on June 21, 2017 [40 favorites]
posted by emjaybee
^ THIS. THIS, THIS, THIS.
posted by yoga at 5:05 AM on June 21, 2017 [40 favorites]
@johnastoehr
Jill Stein, today: [Clinton and Trump are] not different enough to save your life, to save your job, to save the planet."
---
My hate for Trump and Trumpettes is closely followed by that for Stein and her ilk. (and the 'today' mentioned in the tweet is yesterday.)
posted by chris24 at 5:06 AM on June 21, 2017 [46 favorites]
Jill Stein, today: [Clinton and Trump are] not different enough to save your life, to save your job, to save the planet."
---
My hate for Trump and Trumpettes is closely followed by that for Stein and her ilk. (and the 'today' mentioned in the tweet is yesterday.)
posted by chris24 at 5:06 AM on June 21, 2017 [46 favorites]
I'm trying, I really am trying to be the kid who got the pile of pony poop on xmas and looks around excitedly, exclaiming, "I KNOW there's a pony nearby, I just KNOW it!!"
posted by yoga at 5:12 AM on June 21, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by yoga at 5:12 AM on June 21, 2017 [14 favorites]
One thing I noticed in my years of canvassing, especially young and poorer people is that they just have more obstacles getting to vote than older, established (Republican?) people. I really don't think it's as much a matter of getting them inspired as some make it out to be.
Just the simple fact younger and poorer people move around a lot more makes it harder for them to vote. Younger and poorer people have a harder time getting off work or making the time. Last November, on election day alone I encountered FIVE eviction notices, something I will never forget! A few days before election day, I was in a neighborhood clearly riddled with drug addicts, and a strung-out young man on a bicycle stopped me to ask if he could still vote because he had just moved.
This whole moving thing gets to me every time I go canvassing and it really bugs me when people say things like young people would rather demonstrate than vote.
posted by maggiemaggie at 5:13 AM on June 21, 2017 [45 favorites]
Just the simple fact younger and poorer people move around a lot more makes it harder for them to vote. Younger and poorer people have a harder time getting off work or making the time. Last November, on election day alone I encountered FIVE eviction notices, something I will never forget! A few days before election day, I was in a neighborhood clearly riddled with drug addicts, and a strung-out young man on a bicycle stopped me to ask if he could still vote because he had just moved.
This whole moving thing gets to me every time I go canvassing and it really bugs me when people say things like young people would rather demonstrate than vote.
posted by maggiemaggie at 5:13 AM on June 21, 2017 [45 favorites]
For that matter, that Jaws analogy could be useful for talking to disappointed or discouraged Ds. We are getting closer.
posted by GrammarMoses at 5:13 AM on June 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by GrammarMoses at 5:13 AM on June 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
That Democrats would take comfort from this result is absurd. Vast sums of money invested and the Republican won going away. Ossoff was at his most popular two weeks before the primary and has been fading since. The last $10 million (at least) was not only wasted but was on the verge of fraud -- huge commissions earned by fundraising and media firms on a race that was already lost. The basic math of 2018 is lots of Republican House districts with defensible margins, a hugely pro-Republican matchup set for the Senate, and an acceleration of the 2008-2016 trend of ever more relatively Republican turnout in off-year elections. Democrats need to be smart about money and picking their spots, not dumb.
Also, the moderate / independent-ish white southern Democrat isn't really a thing anymore and Ossoff's decision to pretend to be one was ill-considered. The Pelosi ads, nasty as they are, are also basically true: once a Democrat gets to Capitol Hill, they are in service to the California/New York-led agenda. Of course that's NOT the far left Bernie Sanders agenda by any means, but still. Ossoff should have proudly been what he is and promised to do what he was going to do.
posted by MattD at 5:13 AM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Also, the moderate / independent-ish white southern Democrat isn't really a thing anymore and Ossoff's decision to pretend to be one was ill-considered. The Pelosi ads, nasty as they are, are also basically true: once a Democrat gets to Capitol Hill, they are in service to the California/New York-led agenda. Of course that's NOT the far left Bernie Sanders agenda by any means, but still. Ossoff should have proudly been what he is and promised to do what he was going to do.
posted by MattD at 5:13 AM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
I really don't think it's as much a matter of getting them inspired as some make it out to be.
What I mean by that is that I think they are/were inspired to vote, but the obstacles standing in their way are real.
And that's not even getting to Russian hacking and North-Carolina style obstructions.
posted by maggiemaggie at 5:18 AM on June 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
What I mean by that is that I think they are/were inspired to vote, but the obstacles standing in their way are real.
And that's not even getting to Russian hacking and North-Carolina style obstructions.
posted by maggiemaggie at 5:18 AM on June 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
NO IT'S YOU WHO IS RELITIGATING GA-6
posted by radicalawyer at 5:42 AM on June 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by radicalawyer at 5:42 AM on June 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
I have been a reliable and consistent Democratic voter for so long that I do not even get canvassed any more. (The party takes me for granted and that is fine. I get catered to in nearly every other facet of my very white middle class life.) But when I was in college and immediately thereafter? I rarely voted. Not because I was affecting some kind of too cool for school pose but because voting is legitimately hard (and was even harder when I was younger because no internet) when you live in a different state than your permanent address and when you up sticks and move every year. Between 1993 and 2000 I moved back and forth between Pennsylvania and Maryland five times. Which is not at all atypical for young people and not atypical for poor people of all ages. You go where you've got to go to make the hustle work.
I talked to a guy while canvassing last year who was on my turf list at one address but when I asked if he knew his voting location he gave me a polling place in a total other neighborhood. I was like, "Ummm I don't think that's right" and he said "Nah, it's right. I keep my voter registration at my mom's house in [other neighborhood] because I move around a lot." Not legal, but smart (and given that the other neighborhood was in the same local, state and federal districts as his domicile, immaterial to the outcome of anything). Here in PA you only have to show proof of residence the first time you vote in your precinct and thereafter you stay on the rolls and don't have to show ID. If we get some show-ID-every-time-you-vote this very effective strategy to be able to still reliably vote without a giant hassle will no longer work.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:45 AM on June 21, 2017 [14 favorites]
I talked to a guy while canvassing last year who was on my turf list at one address but when I asked if he knew his voting location he gave me a polling place in a total other neighborhood. I was like, "Ummm I don't think that's right" and he said "Nah, it's right. I keep my voter registration at my mom's house in [other neighborhood] because I move around a lot." Not legal, but smart (and given that the other neighborhood was in the same local, state and federal districts as his domicile, immaterial to the outcome of anything). Here in PA you only have to show proof of residence the first time you vote in your precinct and thereafter you stay on the rolls and don't have to show ID. If we get some show-ID-every-time-you-vote this very effective strategy to be able to still reliably vote without a giant hassle will no longer work.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:45 AM on June 21, 2017 [14 favorites]
going to be 500 more comments relitigating GA-6.
Relitigating?
Relitigating doesn't mean "doing something I don't like". The way you're using this term robs it of meaning; an action we deride on the right, and should be derided here.
The election finished 12 hours ago.We haven't even seen all the presented evidence!
posted by lalochezia at 5:45 AM on June 21, 2017 [8 favorites]
Relitigating?
Relitigating doesn't mean "doing something I don't like". The way you're using this term robs it of meaning; an action we deride on the right, and should be derided here.
The election finished 12 hours ago.We haven't even seen all the presented evidence!
posted by lalochezia at 5:45 AM on June 21, 2017 [8 favorites]
While we were all focused on Georgia yesterday, Marco Rubio and Ivanka were play acting. Not the Onion:
CNN Marco Rubio opens Twitter 'investigation' into failed Ivanka Trump hug
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:51 AM on June 21, 2017 [8 favorites]
CNN Marco Rubio opens Twitter 'investigation' into failed Ivanka Trump hug
Washington (CNN)Sen. Marco Rubio went on a tweetstorm Tuesday afternoon after his greeting with Ivanka Trump on Capitol Hill earlier that day went viral.I honestly did not believe it when I first read the CNN report-- I actually checked out Rubio's twitter account to make sure it was real.
A picture of the two apparently attempting an embrace surfaced on social media soon after the pair met at the Capitol to discuss tax reform and parental leave.
Hours after the photo began to make the rounds on Twitter, Rubio responded from his account, saying he had just learned of the photo and would open his own investigation to expose what really happened during his encounter with Trump.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:51 AM on June 21, 2017 [8 favorites]
i enjoy discussion of GA-6, though if it is discussed in the lens of the 2016 D primary then i enjoy it like i enjoy a MAGA hat
posted by localhuman at 5:51 AM on June 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by localhuman at 5:51 AM on June 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
I am a bit sick to my stomach, but I am an old liberal looking at America and that is thus my natural state. We are a doomed nation and have been for a long, long time. We graduated from corrupt to doomed sometime late in the first Reagan administration, when it became obvious that feeding the public jingoism and racism and moralizing and bullshit was a winning formula that'd make half the public happily give the wealthy everything they wanted. They've honed that formula for decades and, well, look where we are now.
You can win in some places with logic and truth. But not enough places and not with people who have actual radical change in mind. I would love to see an actual card-carrying unapologetic leftist win big someday and shout IT'S MAONING IN AMERICA from the White House lawn but I will not live that long. Nor will anyone else.
So why do we keep kicking and yelling and fighting?
Because there are no safe spaces in America. Every one of us has neighbors who think Trump speaks for Jesus, brown skin equals probable cause, the Bible should be legally binding, America has the moral authority to glass any country we don't like, and they'd be rich and happy if coastal elitist Communists and welfare queens and news reporters and immigrants and queers and perverts and non-Christians would just shut up and know their place. They have their own media streams reinforcing for them that they're right. And they will not stop.
But there are good people everywhere in America, too. Yes, even in Oklahoma. Losing an election 77-23 means there are 23% fighting the good fight and saying "screw THAT" to what the greedheads desire. There are people all over America who are suffering and will suffer worse. If we have any power at all to help them, or at least to let them know that they're not alone and they do count and they are being heard, that's what we are here for.
Because we are better than the Least Common American Denominator. We have to be or the nation really is doomed. And the next person crying out for help just might be you someday.
posted by delfin at 5:55 AM on June 21, 2017 [27 favorites]
You can win in some places with logic and truth. But not enough places and not with people who have actual radical change in mind. I would love to see an actual card-carrying unapologetic leftist win big someday and shout IT'S MAONING IN AMERICA from the White House lawn but I will not live that long. Nor will anyone else.
So why do we keep kicking and yelling and fighting?
Because there are no safe spaces in America. Every one of us has neighbors who think Trump speaks for Jesus, brown skin equals probable cause, the Bible should be legally binding, America has the moral authority to glass any country we don't like, and they'd be rich and happy if coastal elitist Communists and welfare queens and news reporters and immigrants and queers and perverts and non-Christians would just shut up and know their place. They have their own media streams reinforcing for them that they're right. And they will not stop.
But there are good people everywhere in America, too. Yes, even in Oklahoma. Losing an election 77-23 means there are 23% fighting the good fight and saying "screw THAT" to what the greedheads desire. There are people all over America who are suffering and will suffer worse. If we have any power at all to help them, or at least to let them know that they're not alone and they do count and they are being heard, that's what we are here for.
Because we are better than the Least Common American Denominator. We have to be or the nation really is doomed. And the next person crying out for help just might be you someday.
posted by delfin at 5:55 AM on June 21, 2017 [27 favorites]
huge commissions earned by fundraising and media firms on a race that was already lost.
It was a bare 12 hours ago that 538 had it as too close to call. I don't think anyone could have reliably said it was "already lost" unless they were giving in to despair - which is a real thing that happens, but maybe not what we want out of the DNC?
posted by corb at 5:55 AM on June 21, 2017 [19 favorites]
It was a bare 12 hours ago that 538 had it as too close to call. I don't think anyone could have reliably said it was "already lost" unless they were giving in to despair - which is a real thing that happens, but maybe not what we want out of the DNC?
posted by corb at 5:55 AM on June 21, 2017 [19 favorites]
Corbyn loses an election by a few percentage points and is strutting around as if he is Prime Minister-elect.
The Dems lose in a tough district and are already sitting shiva. Dem leaders should be out crowing about this election and the electoral swing to Dems. They should be putting it out as a win and making noises that no GOP politician is safe.
posted by PenDevil at 5:57 AM on June 21, 2017 [108 favorites]
The Dems lose in a tough district and are already sitting shiva. Dem leaders should be out crowing about this election and the electoral swing to Dems. They should be putting it out as a win and making noises that no GOP politician is safe.
posted by PenDevil at 5:57 AM on June 21, 2017 [108 favorites]
Marco Rubio opens Twitter 'investigation' into failed Ivanka Trump hug
Reading that article....is Rubio attemtping....humor....on the internet.....?
Dude give it up. Poe's law is coming for you.
posted by Twain Device at 5:59 AM on June 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Reading that article....is Rubio attemtping....humor....on the internet.....?
Dude give it up. Poe's law is coming for you.
posted by Twain Device at 5:59 AM on June 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
In total, the personal information of potentially near all of America’s 200 million registered voters was exposed, including names, dates of birth, home addresses, phone numbers, and voter registration details, as well as data described as “modeled” voter ethnicities and religions.
Everyone involved should go to jail. They won't, of course, but by god they should.
posted by winna at 6:02 AM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Everyone involved should go to jail. They won't, of course, but by god they should.
posted by winna at 6:02 AM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Corbyn loses an election by a few percentage points and is strutting around as if he is Prime Minister-elect.
The Dems lose in a tough district and are already sitting shiva. Dem leaders should be out crowing about this election and the electoral swing to Dems. They should be putting it out as a win and making noises that no GOP politician is safe.
This. Rs aren't even needing to work to spin this because we're spinning it as catastrophe. Fuck that. They had to work their ass off, spend tens of millions and sweat the electoral win in a very safe district, so let's not concede the messaging win. Let's quit playing defense and play some offense.
posted by chris24 at 6:03 AM on June 21, 2017 [67 favorites]
The Dems lose in a tough district and are already sitting shiva. Dem leaders should be out crowing about this election and the electoral swing to Dems. They should be putting it out as a win and making noises that no GOP politician is safe.
This. Rs aren't even needing to work to spin this because we're spinning it as catastrophe. Fuck that. They had to work their ass off, spend tens of millions and sweat the electoral win in a very safe district, so let's not concede the messaging win. Let's quit playing defense and play some offense.
posted by chris24 at 6:03 AM on June 21, 2017 [67 favorites]
It was a bare 12 hours ago that 538 had it as too close to call. I don't think anyone could have reliably said it was "already lost" unless they were giving in to despair - which is a real thing that happens, but maybe not what we want out of the DNC?
Ironic considering the amount of shit the DNC cops for not funding maybe-winnable races in Republican districts.
I mean the key takeaways as I see them from GA-6 are:
* If the line holds the house is gone. Republicans need to go for broke to pass whatever the hell they can before 2018. If the leadership realize and expect this you can expect the legislation shenanigans to accelerate and bills to come thick and fast.
* Democrats need to run for every seat.
* Democrats need a flip the house fund which outright finances every race in a seat that's PVI R+10 or lower including Ryan's district.
* Vote tampering and suppression (even worse, Russian variants thereof) are distractions and merely deckchairs on the Titanic. The real iceberg is enthusiasm driven voter turnout.
When it comes down to it the American people are ultimately responsible for what comes out of their districts. Sadly, if Americans are happy to send enablers of kleptocratic cryptofascists over milquetoast moderates that's the government we're going to get. We can only work with what candidates show up and who make it through the primaries.
posted by Talez at 6:06 AM on June 21, 2017 [15 favorites]
Ironic considering the amount of shit the DNC cops for not funding maybe-winnable races in Republican districts.
I mean the key takeaways as I see them from GA-6 are:
* If the line holds the house is gone. Republicans need to go for broke to pass whatever the hell they can before 2018. If the leadership realize and expect this you can expect the legislation shenanigans to accelerate and bills to come thick and fast.
* Democrats need to run for every seat.
* Democrats need a flip the house fund which outright finances every race in a seat that's PVI R+10 or lower including Ryan's district.
* Vote tampering and suppression (even worse, Russian variants thereof) are distractions and merely deckchairs on the Titanic. The real iceberg is enthusiasm driven voter turnout.
When it comes down to it the American people are ultimately responsible for what comes out of their districts. Sadly, if Americans are happy to send enablers of kleptocratic cryptofascists over milquetoast moderates that's the government we're going to get. We can only work with what candidates show up and who make it through the primaries.
posted by Talez at 6:06 AM on June 21, 2017 [15 favorites]
Jill Stein, today: [Clinton and Trump are] not different enough to save your life, to save your job, to save the planet."
great, another idiot who hasn't noticed that the election's been over for months
ps, jill, you lost
posted by pyramid termite at 6:07 AM on June 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
great, another idiot who hasn't noticed that the election's been over for months
ps, jill, you lost
posted by pyramid termite at 6:07 AM on June 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
Well she has to earn her RT stipend somehow.
posted by winna at 6:09 AM on June 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by winna at 6:09 AM on June 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
I am barely controlling myself from lashing out at a few comments here on the Blue. You want to bury the Dems? Fine. But this is a war and we lost this one battle. It was a battle in the Republicans' own territory. We brought it to them and they squeaked out a win. Should we have never tried?
I do believe that we face a lot of obstacles and the biggest one may be the Citizens United money. It is true that the Right Wing set their propaganda machine on "firehose" and they managed to blow Ossoff away but the way we counter that isn't to jettison Pelosi or stop trying to reach for the heart of the Republican power. As always the way is to have a good message and get it out there via candidates who believe in that message.
Government can work for people. It can improve their lives, it can make them safer, it can go to battle for them against the big corporations and banks ganging up on them. It can make sure that every person in America has their civil rights protected. I personally think these values are worth fighting for. Hard. Until my last dying breath. If that's what you believe too, then get out there and fight.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:11 AM on June 21, 2017 [98 favorites]
I do believe that we face a lot of obstacles and the biggest one may be the Citizens United money. It is true that the Right Wing set their propaganda machine on "firehose" and they managed to blow Ossoff away but the way we counter that isn't to jettison Pelosi or stop trying to reach for the heart of the Republican power. As always the way is to have a good message and get it out there via candidates who believe in that message.
Government can work for people. It can improve their lives, it can make them safer, it can go to battle for them against the big corporations and banks ganging up on them. It can make sure that every person in America has their civil rights protected. I personally think these values are worth fighting for. Hard. Until my last dying breath. If that's what you believe too, then get out there and fight.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:11 AM on June 21, 2017 [98 favorites]
Some thoughts on GA-06 from Florida's Steve Schale.
posted by wittgenstein at 6:19 AM on June 21, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by wittgenstein at 6:19 AM on June 21, 2017 [8 favorites]
Democrats need a flip the house fund which outright finances every race in a seat that's PVI R+10 or lower including Ryan's district.
Isn't ActBlue sort of a flip-the-house fund? So it goes to multiple fights? (or lets you designate the fight you want the $ to go to?)
posted by yoga at 6:19 AM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Isn't ActBlue sort of a flip-the-house fund? So it goes to multiple fights? (or lets you designate the fight you want the $ to go to?)
posted by yoga at 6:19 AM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
I do believe that we face a lot of obstacles and the biggest one may be the Citizens United money. It is true that the Right Wing set their propaganda machine on "firehose" and they managed to blow Ossoff away
+1. PAC and outside money saved this for Rs, but they can't spend $20m on every House race in 2018. And yes, most/all Ds in 2018 aren't going to have Ossoff money, but as MT, SC and KS show, Ds are outperforming by 10+ points without the big cash in the current political environment. Enthusiasm and momentum are on our side and Rs have more territory to defend. And that's with Trump and Rs still benefitting from the Obama economy and stability.
posted by chris24 at 6:19 AM on June 21, 2017 [22 favorites]
+1. PAC and outside money saved this for Rs, but they can't spend $20m on every House race in 2018. And yes, most/all Ds in 2018 aren't going to have Ossoff money, but as MT, SC and KS show, Ds are outperforming by 10+ points without the big cash in the current political environment. Enthusiasm and momentum are on our side and Rs have more territory to defend. And that's with Trump and Rs still benefitting from the Obama economy and stability.
posted by chris24 at 6:19 AM on June 21, 2017 [22 favorites]
Steve Schale: Even in districts like this, the road to 45-47%, with enough money and a good enough candidate, can be smooth. But the road from there to 50+1 can be like climbing Everest without oxygen -- sure it can be done, but it requires a really amazing climber and a fair amount of luck.
...
Which gets back to the lesson. One of the biggest forgotten lessons of 2006 is the importance of recruitment. My side will never have the money to go toe-to-toe with Republicans everywhere. We have to have the "better" candidate in a lot of places to win, particularly due to gerrymandering where we have to win more seats on GOP turf than they do on ours. At the Congressional level, the DCCC in 2006 fielded a rock-star slate of candidates. At the legislative cycle, in a year when we picked up seven GOP-held seats and held two Democatic open seats, we had the "better" candidate in almost every instance. We also recruited broadly, trying to find the best candidates we could in as many plausible seats as possible, to compete broadly, to give ourselves lots of options - and when the wave happened, the map blew wide open. Had we not put the work in on the recruitment side -- occasionally in places where a Democratic candidate had already filed, at best we would have gone plus 2 or 3, even with the wave. At same time, if we had more money, our +7 year might have been +10 or more.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:21 AM on June 21, 2017 [8 favorites]
...
Which gets back to the lesson. One of the biggest forgotten lessons of 2006 is the importance of recruitment. My side will never have the money to go toe-to-toe with Republicans everywhere. We have to have the "better" candidate in a lot of places to win, particularly due to gerrymandering where we have to win more seats on GOP turf than they do on ours. At the Congressional level, the DCCC in 2006 fielded a rock-star slate of candidates. At the legislative cycle, in a year when we picked up seven GOP-held seats and held two Democatic open seats, we had the "better" candidate in almost every instance. We also recruited broadly, trying to find the best candidates we could in as many plausible seats as possible, to compete broadly, to give ourselves lots of options - and when the wave happened, the map blew wide open. Had we not put the work in on the recruitment side -- occasionally in places where a Democratic candidate had already filed, at best we would have gone plus 2 or 3, even with the wave. At same time, if we had more money, our +7 year might have been +10 or more.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:21 AM on June 21, 2017 [8 favorites]
Sleepy Tillerson hasn't had time to do a damn thing since he took office but it seems that he found the energy to launch a brand new investigation into Clinton's use of email while at the State Department.
So you have that to look forward to.
posted by JackFlash at 6:29 AM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
So you have that to look forward to.
posted by JackFlash at 6:29 AM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Vote tampering and suppression (even worse, Russian variants thereof) are distractions and merely deckchairs on the Titanic. The real iceberg is enthusiasm driven voter turnout.
I strongly disagree with this. All the enthusiasm & turnout in the world can't overcome tinkering on the counting back end.
BOTH things have to happen: secure processes, AND enthusiasm--->turnout.
posted by yoga at 6:31 AM on June 21, 2017 [14 favorites]
I strongly disagree with this. All the enthusiasm & turnout in the world can't overcome tinkering on the counting back end.
BOTH things have to happen: secure processes, AND enthusiasm--->turnout.
posted by yoga at 6:31 AM on June 21, 2017 [14 favorites]
Have the Feds Really Flipped Michael Flynn?
To save you a click, the answer is still "maybe."
posted by diogenes at 6:32 AM on June 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
To save you a click, the answer is still "maybe."
posted by diogenes at 6:32 AM on June 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
Yeah, I don't share the despondency over the GA-06 result. Turning representation in the House to majority Democratic is a huge undertaking, and winning is a process that--at first--does in fact consist of losing less badly in every single district where Democrats have had little to no presence for a long, long time. Massive, important changes take a lot of work, happen by degrees and are thus incremental, which can be very frustrating and demoralizing, and of course is terrifyingly slow in the face of personal danger and risk for anyone who is a vulnerable and/or marginalized person for any reason. (And I don't mean to tell anyone to ignore their feelings, or the real, substantial effects that this--or any other--local election may have on safety, health and well-being.)
But in that district, in 2017, this result is many, many degrees better than could have been plausibly imagined even a year ago. (How does Jake put it? "Dude, sucking at something is the first step towards being sorta good at something.")
posted by LooseFilter at 7:03 AM on June 21, 2017 [21 favorites]
But in that district, in 2017, this result is many, many degrees better than could have been plausibly imagined even a year ago. (How does Jake put it? "Dude, sucking at something is the first step towards being sorta good at something.")
posted by LooseFilter at 7:03 AM on June 21, 2017 [21 favorites]
It's disappointing, but I can't say it's really surprising so I'm not going all despair and darkest timeline here. The results of the runoff were the same as the results of the special election.
Ossoff got 48% of the vote in the special election, and the various right wing candidates split 52% of the vote. When people were talking about flipping GA-06 I wondered where they thought Ossoff would get the missing 2%, because it seemed reasonable to assume the right would coalesce behind Handel once all the other right candidates were out of the picture.
I'll agree that winning is necessary, not merely closing gaps, but that Ossoff came close is still an encouraging sign. Trump is unpopular and remains unpopular, but we're still running up against two basic facts:
First, that politics in America is intensely tribal. To a great many voters all that matters is the letter behind the candidate's name, it doesn't matter much if they're feeling angered at the Republicans, or feeling that Trump is not a great President, if they're part of Tribe Republican they'll vote for the Republican candidate unless things get much, much, worse than they are now.
And while us political junkies are plugged in and seeing lots of worrying things, the average voter isn't even aware of much of what's going on with Trump. I know a lot of Republicans, and many of them have simply unplugged from politics. They voted Trump in, they're feeling to a certain extent that's all they needed to do or care about. A Republican is President so now they feel free to ignore politics entirely, basically on the grounds that from their POV all is right with the world so why even bother paying attention?
The other major takeaway here is that while the right isn't monolithic, the deep fractures haven't yet reached the point of having any effect on voting patterns. The Teabaggers, Libertarians, Religious Right, and so on all have their differences, but they're mostly able to put those aside and vote for any Republican come election day. And that hasn't changed. In the special election they were fragmented, but when the runoff happened that 52% that voted for not-a-Democrat came together and voted for Handel.
I think we can exploit the fractures in the Republican voting base, but it's going to take more than a few months of Trump being Trump for those fractures to really change voting patterns.
To us it feels like years since Trump was elected, but to your average, politically disinterested, voter it's been an eyeblink and they just haven't had time to really absorb what's going on.
The answer to "what do we do now" is the same as it was before: we continually push against that shield of apathy and ignorance, we work to publicize every awful thing Trump and the Republicans do, we work to energize and get our own base out.
We also don't give into despair.
GA-06 is shifting our way, just slower than we'd like. By 2018 the horrible crap Trump is pushing may have trickled down a bit more and we can make up that 2% in a combination of enthusiasm from our side and apathy from theirs.
posted by sotonohito at 7:03 AM on June 21, 2017 [45 favorites]
Ossoff got 48% of the vote in the special election, and the various right wing candidates split 52% of the vote. When people were talking about flipping GA-06 I wondered where they thought Ossoff would get the missing 2%, because it seemed reasonable to assume the right would coalesce behind Handel once all the other right candidates were out of the picture.
I'll agree that winning is necessary, not merely closing gaps, but that Ossoff came close is still an encouraging sign. Trump is unpopular and remains unpopular, but we're still running up against two basic facts:
First, that politics in America is intensely tribal. To a great many voters all that matters is the letter behind the candidate's name, it doesn't matter much if they're feeling angered at the Republicans, or feeling that Trump is not a great President, if they're part of Tribe Republican they'll vote for the Republican candidate unless things get much, much, worse than they are now.
And while us political junkies are plugged in and seeing lots of worrying things, the average voter isn't even aware of much of what's going on with Trump. I know a lot of Republicans, and many of them have simply unplugged from politics. They voted Trump in, they're feeling to a certain extent that's all they needed to do or care about. A Republican is President so now they feel free to ignore politics entirely, basically on the grounds that from their POV all is right with the world so why even bother paying attention?
The other major takeaway here is that while the right isn't monolithic, the deep fractures haven't yet reached the point of having any effect on voting patterns. The Teabaggers, Libertarians, Religious Right, and so on all have their differences, but they're mostly able to put those aside and vote for any Republican come election day. And that hasn't changed. In the special election they were fragmented, but when the runoff happened that 52% that voted for not-a-Democrat came together and voted for Handel.
I think we can exploit the fractures in the Republican voting base, but it's going to take more than a few months of Trump being Trump for those fractures to really change voting patterns.
To us it feels like years since Trump was elected, but to your average, politically disinterested, voter it's been an eyeblink and they just haven't had time to really absorb what's going on.
The answer to "what do we do now" is the same as it was before: we continually push against that shield of apathy and ignorance, we work to publicize every awful thing Trump and the Republicans do, we work to energize and get our own base out.
We also don't give into despair.
GA-06 is shifting our way, just slower than we'd like. By 2018 the horrible crap Trump is pushing may have trickled down a bit more and we can make up that 2% in a combination of enthusiasm from our side and apathy from theirs.
posted by sotonohito at 7:03 AM on June 21, 2017 [45 favorites]
Remind the Republicans that they had to spend over $20 million just to defend what should have been a safe seat, and they won only by the smallest of margins. That ought to worry 'em.
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:11 AM on June 21, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:11 AM on June 21, 2017 [29 favorites]
I have a dumb question, re GA-06: the seat goes up for grabs in 2018 along with the rest, right? So basically Handel has a year and a half to get Trump stink on her with the rest of the House Rs, and if they've shit the bed badly enough that the current wave is even 2 points stronger, she's out. Right?
posted by nonasuch at 7:11 AM on June 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by nonasuch at 7:11 AM on June 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm of two minds about GA-06. I totally get the whole "this was a tough race, and if it's a bellwether for 2018 it's good news" aspect here, and in Kansas, and in South Carolina, and Montana. But at the end of the day, it would be nice to win something. Not necessarily a big important flashy race. Have we maybe picked up a legislature seat somewhere? For morale purposes, I mean. Even if your head is saying, "Good hustle, play like that next year and we're gonna win this thing!" eventually your heart starts saying, "If we can't win now, why would we win then?"
And on a more positive note, I've recently been reading Rise of the Rocket Girls, and watched She's Beautiful When She's Angry a few nights ago, and I've been percolating ideas about just how extraordinary the last half century has been in changing the overall social landscape. Ignoring the specific legal landmarks, we are in living memory of a time when the notion that a woman could have a career, a gay person a family, or a black person any standing at all in society were weird, aberrant ways of thinking of things, and those who bucked the trend were, whether admired or reviled, all too often regarded as freaks. People who internalized that way of looking at things are still alive but a shrinking minority. This is what we're fighting against and time is doing some of the work for us. Yes, there are plenty of young people who still think in very bigoted ways, but I think the wider social conditioning does matter, and, despite a lot of recent, discouraging retrogression, I don't think things are going to roll back enough to really change the course of society. (To engage in Metafilter's favorite hobby: Look at where we are, look at where we started.)
posted by jackbishop at 7:12 AM on June 21, 2017 [19 favorites]
And on a more positive note, I've recently been reading Rise of the Rocket Girls, and watched She's Beautiful When She's Angry a few nights ago, and I've been percolating ideas about just how extraordinary the last half century has been in changing the overall social landscape. Ignoring the specific legal landmarks, we are in living memory of a time when the notion that a woman could have a career, a gay person a family, or a black person any standing at all in society were weird, aberrant ways of thinking of things, and those who bucked the trend were, whether admired or reviled, all too often regarded as freaks. People who internalized that way of looking at things are still alive but a shrinking minority. This is what we're fighting against and time is doing some of the work for us. Yes, there are plenty of young people who still think in very bigoted ways, but I think the wider social conditioning does matter, and, despite a lot of recent, discouraging retrogression, I don't think things are going to roll back enough to really change the course of society. (To engage in Metafilter's favorite hobby: Look at where we are, look at where we started.)
posted by jackbishop at 7:12 AM on June 21, 2017 [19 favorites]
Sotonohito, I flagged your post as fantastic. I want to note one thing in particular: most people are NOT political junkies like the posters here. Most people are not that plugged in, and are concentrating on other, to them more important, things in their lives. And for those who are juggling work, family, pets, and trying to squeeze in a little leisure time for themselves (to name one very common situation people find themselves in) checking out CNN or (ugh ugh) Fox might be the most they can/will do. I have political junkie-ism in my blood (my dad was a Poli Sci major, ffs!) and I remember my mom taking me with her to vote when I was only about four or five years old. If you come from a politically disengaged family, you're going to have to learn this stuff as an adult, and many people don't.
And so what people believe and how they vote (or not) gets filtered through how they get their information. And here's where Fox, Breitbart, etc. come in. I've come to believe that, and I hate to use this phrase, "the right wing propaganda machine" is more deeply damaging than just about anything. It's not that Americans are stupid per se, it's that we don't have a BBC but we do have Fox, and if there are a large number of people who get their news from that or Breitbart and nothing else, We Have A Problem.
One thing I have noticed is how old the "TV news only" audience must skew, judging from the commercials I see on CNN when I'm killing time on the treadmill at the gym. So many prescription drug ads, retirement pitches, etc. etc. But Waiting For The Olds To Die doesn't solve the problem of Reddit bro types and those who click on right wing news sites. Fox and its kind are a real problem for us and I honestly don't know where to begin with that.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 7:24 AM on June 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
And so what people believe and how they vote (or not) gets filtered through how they get their information. And here's where Fox, Breitbart, etc. come in. I've come to believe that, and I hate to use this phrase, "the right wing propaganda machine" is more deeply damaging than just about anything. It's not that Americans are stupid per se, it's that we don't have a BBC but we do have Fox, and if there are a large number of people who get their news from that or Breitbart and nothing else, We Have A Problem.
One thing I have noticed is how old the "TV news only" audience must skew, judging from the commercials I see on CNN when I'm killing time on the treadmill at the gym. So many prescription drug ads, retirement pitches, etc. etc. But Waiting For The Olds To Die doesn't solve the problem of Reddit bro types and those who click on right wing news sites. Fox and its kind are a real problem for us and I honestly don't know where to begin with that.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 7:24 AM on June 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
As a Georgia resident, I remind everyone that since 2002 we have all voted on identical black box Diebold touch screen machines running Windows 2000 that produce no paper ballot for the voter to approve and drop into a ballot box.
Here is how we vote:
1) Walk into the polling place and fill out a paper with name, address, and birthday.
2) Have your driver's license/state ID scanned. The data in the ID database must match your piece of paper. Getting a GA driver's license/state ID requires a birth certificate, social security card, and two proofs of your current address. If you don't have a GA driver's license, you can technically still vote using a number of other forms of ID, but you will get shit for it from the poll workers because it's more work for them. (At this point during the 2016 election, many people who knew they were registered to vote at that polling place were turned away because they were told they were not on the rolls. Some persisted. Some gave up.)
3) You are handed a magnetic card, which you insert into a Diebold machine. After a lengthy scroll through many screens on the ancient touchscreen device, the last screen reviews all of your choices and allegedly then records your vote. After you complete your vote, the card is spit out, and you hand it to a poll worker.
That's it. There is no way to check that the machine recorded your vote correctly. There is no way to have a meaningful recount. The possibilities of pre-loading votes, changing votes, or just never downloading the results from a few machines in precincts you don't like seem endless. Malice and incompetence could both endanger the vote. And we have zero recourse.
These machines were purchased shortly before the 2002 election. That is 15 years of elections that I as a Georgian have zero faith in. Yesterday's is just one more.
posted by hydropsyche at 7:24 AM on June 21, 2017 [89 favorites]
Here is how we vote:
1) Walk into the polling place and fill out a paper with name, address, and birthday.
2) Have your driver's license/state ID scanned. The data in the ID database must match your piece of paper. Getting a GA driver's license/state ID requires a birth certificate, social security card, and two proofs of your current address. If you don't have a GA driver's license, you can technically still vote using a number of other forms of ID, but you will get shit for it from the poll workers because it's more work for them. (At this point during the 2016 election, many people who knew they were registered to vote at that polling place were turned away because they were told they were not on the rolls. Some persisted. Some gave up.)
3) You are handed a magnetic card, which you insert into a Diebold machine. After a lengthy scroll through many screens on the ancient touchscreen device, the last screen reviews all of your choices and allegedly then records your vote. After you complete your vote, the card is spit out, and you hand it to a poll worker.
That's it. There is no way to check that the machine recorded your vote correctly. There is no way to have a meaningful recount. The possibilities of pre-loading votes, changing votes, or just never downloading the results from a few machines in precincts you don't like seem endless. Malice and incompetence could both endanger the vote. And we have zero recourse.
These machines were purchased shortly before the 2002 election. That is 15 years of elections that I as a Georgian have zero faith in. Yesterday's is just one more.
posted by hydropsyche at 7:24 AM on June 21, 2017 [89 favorites]
Honestly, Gianforte should never have won. That's the real warning sign right there.
posted by Yowser at 7:27 AM on June 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 7:27 AM on June 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
What if politicians began talking about what they actually believe?
I'd like to think that this would work exceptionally well. I've thought for a while that a candidate embracing that idea would do really well.
I think about the problems I have with candidates, even when I generally agree with their policies. There is too much "spin" to everything. Even things that I agree with are overly simplified. I want a candidate that's brutally honest, utterly transparent, takes ownership, and is ruthlessly objective. Someone who does the right thing even when it hurts them.
It's basically how I would run as a candidate. There are a ton of things that it seems like everyone in politics just accepts as fact and it drives a lot of distasteful behavior. I would love a candidate to tell me that they would love to see a return to much higher marginal tax rates and then explain why the policy I support is something less than that.
Since Joe Biden revealed that he supported same-sex marriage I've never been sure if he accidentally slipped and stated his real, personal position or if it was a sly attempt to test the waters before officially changing the administration's position. That would have never happened with me because I would have been up front that I supported SSM and would work to make it law as soon as it was possible. If it was going to be impossible for me to do because of GOP obstructionism or something, I'd have said so.
I think a candidate like that would get a lot of support.
posted by VTX at 7:33 AM on June 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'd like to think that this would work exceptionally well. I've thought for a while that a candidate embracing that idea would do really well.
I think about the problems I have with candidates, even when I generally agree with their policies. There is too much "spin" to everything. Even things that I agree with are overly simplified. I want a candidate that's brutally honest, utterly transparent, takes ownership, and is ruthlessly objective. Someone who does the right thing even when it hurts them.
It's basically how I would run as a candidate. There are a ton of things that it seems like everyone in politics just accepts as fact and it drives a lot of distasteful behavior. I would love a candidate to tell me that they would love to see a return to much higher marginal tax rates and then explain why the policy I support is something less than that.
Since Joe Biden revealed that he supported same-sex marriage I've never been sure if he accidentally slipped and stated his real, personal position or if it was a sly attempt to test the waters before officially changing the administration's position. That would have never happened with me because I would have been up front that I supported SSM and would work to make it law as soon as it was possible. If it was going to be impossible for me to do because of GOP obstructionism or something, I'd have said so.
I think a candidate like that would get a lot of support.
posted by VTX at 7:33 AM on June 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
Those emails were astoundingly bad. 9+ a day, whipsawing from STUNNING VICTORY to "all hope is lost", and every one of them with capital letter O's instead of number 0's.
I would see them roll in and think "these are atrocious but they must work because someone must know what they're doing."
Not so sure anymore! I have a half-formed thought here relating to Big Data and its promise of incremental insights gleaned... gotta spend some more time to put it together but spoiler: maybe not every conclusion is accurate or meaningful (or maybe even acting on certain insights can cause their effectiveness to change). Remember that "You should follow me on Twitter HERE" article? How effective is that approach today?
Below, a selection of actual email subjects for your reading pleasure:
I would see them roll in and think "these are atrocious but they must work because someone must know what they're doing."
Not so sure anymore! I have a half-formed thought here relating to Big Data and its promise of incremental insights gleaned... gotta spend some more time to put it together but spoiler: maybe not every conclusion is accurate or meaningful (or maybe even acting on certain insights can cause their effectiveness to change). Remember that "You should follow me on Twitter HERE" article? How effective is that approach today?
Below, a selection of actual email subjects for your reading pleasure:
- we're heartbroken seth
- Trump just WON
- I'm asking for $5O seth
- SORRY SORRY SORRY seth
- ＰＬＵＭＭＥＴＩＮＧ
- Jon Ossoff COLLAPSES
- Jon Ossoff WINS!!
- nobody... NOBODY saw this coming
- we never... NEVER expected this
- all hope is lost
- seth- are you online?
- we fell short [AGAIN]
- ACCEPT DEFEAT
if we don’t raise $38,491 more TODAY, we simply won’t have the resources to go toe-to-toe with the Republicans.posted by cybertaur1 at 7:37 AM on June 21, 2017 [34 favorites]
What if politicians began talking about what they actually believe?
I’m not especially interested in what a politician believes, because I think it’s more important to know what they’ll do. Trust and predictability are in many ways the same thing. A politician’s beliefs are only interesting when they’re a reliable predictor of who they’ll ally with and what they’ll support.
posted by migurski at 7:40 AM on June 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
I’m not especially interested in what a politician believes, because I think it’s more important to know what they’ll do. Trust and predictability are in many ways the same thing. A politician’s beliefs are only interesting when they’re a reliable predictor of who they’ll ally with and what they’ll support.
posted by migurski at 7:40 AM on June 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
Those emails are real? Jesus.
posted by Artw at 7:41 AM on June 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:41 AM on June 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
...the problem with hackable vote-tallying machines is they can be hacked either way. So, the failure of the Democrats not to out-hack the Republicans is a failure of initiative.
Similar but different, if the Koch brothers and that other nut billionaire can 'buy' a government why can't we - who have an interest of, for and by the people, find a billionaire to go for our side?
I know... naive. But still, it is always worth considering the framing of any problem.
posted by From Bklyn at 7:43 AM on June 21, 2017
Similar but different, if the Koch brothers and that other nut billionaire can 'buy' a government why can't we - who have an interest of, for and by the people, find a billionaire to go for our side?
I know... naive. But still, it is always worth considering the framing of any problem.
posted by From Bklyn at 7:43 AM on June 21, 2017
I would see them roll in and think "these are atrocious but they must work because someone must know what they're doing."
Not so sure anymore!
They did work. $24 million for a House race is working. They're not sending those to you to get you to move to GA-6 and vote.
posted by Etrigan at 7:46 AM on June 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Not so sure anymore!
They did work. $24 million for a House race is working. They're not sending those to you to get you to move to GA-6 and vote.
posted by Etrigan at 7:46 AM on June 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Similar but different, if the Koch brothers and that other nut billionaire can 'buy' a government why can't we - who have an interest of, for and by the people, find a billionaire to go for our side?
Yeah, I'll bet if Ossoff had dramatically outspent Handel, or if Clinton had dramatically outspent Trump, they would've won. Oh wait.
posted by jpe at 8:04 AM on June 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yeah, I'll bet if Ossoff had dramatically outspent Handel, or if Clinton had dramatically outspent Trump, they would've won. Oh wait.
posted by jpe at 8:04 AM on June 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
> Yeah, I'll bet if Ossoff had dramatically outspent Handel, or if Clinton had dramatically outspent Trump, they would've won. Oh wait.
The Koch Brothers are buying districts that are already purple or just a touch blue, and they have had much more success with partisan gerrymandering (by buying up the state houses that control it.) It's not at all comparable to the long odds of a Democrat winning GA-6.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:07 AM on June 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
The Koch Brothers are buying districts that are already purple or just a touch blue, and they have had much more success with partisan gerrymandering (by buying up the state houses that control it.) It's not at all comparable to the long odds of a Democrat winning GA-6.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:07 AM on June 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
Brady Dennis/WaPo: EPA plans to buy out more than 1,200 employees this summer
This is roughly 8 percent of their workforce.
This is roughly 8 percent of their workforce.
It remains unclear how the EPA plans to undertake more than 1,200 buyouts without spending more than $12 million [set aside for this current round of buyouts]. In 2014, according to an inspector general‘s report, the agency paid $11.3 million in incentives to get 456 employees to voluntarily leave. It shelled out an additional $4.9 million in annual leave payouts, for a total of $16.2 million.posted by ZeusHumms at 8:10 AM on June 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
"Let them eat chromium!"
posted by Artw at 8:12 AM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:12 AM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
The Dems lose in a tough district and are already sitting shiva. Dem leaders should be out crowing about this election and the electoral swing to Dems. They should be putting it out as a win and making noises that no GOP politician is safe.
This. NPR this morning made a point of mentioning how much money the Democrats spent on GA-06, without mentioning that the Republicans spent at least as much, if not more, to retain what ought to have been a safe seat.
posted by Gelatin at 8:14 AM on June 21, 2017 [54 favorites]
This. NPR this morning made a point of mentioning how much money the Democrats spent on GA-06, without mentioning that the Republicans spent at least as much, if not more, to retain what ought to have been a safe seat.
posted by Gelatin at 8:14 AM on June 21, 2017 [54 favorites]
Yeah, I'll bet if Ossoff had dramatically outspent Handel, or if Clinton had dramatically outspent Trump, they would've won. Oh wait.
And
NPR this morning made a point of mentioning how much money the Democrats spent on GA-06, without mentioning that the Republicans spent at least as much, if not more
Just to make this precise, here's a breakdown of spending on GA-06. Ossoff and allies spent 7.5 million; Handel and allies spent 18.8 million.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 8:22 AM on June 21, 2017 [65 favorites]
And
NPR this morning made a point of mentioning how much money the Democrats spent on GA-06, without mentioning that the Republicans spent at least as much, if not more
Just to make this precise, here's a breakdown of spending on GA-06. Ossoff and allies spent 7.5 million; Handel and allies spent 18.8 million.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 8:22 AM on June 21, 2017 [65 favorites]
18.8 million to retain a safe seat.
Where did I leave my old Dean For America sign?
posted by delfin at 8:30 AM on June 21, 2017 [22 favorites]
Where did I leave my old Dean For America sign?
posted by delfin at 8:30 AM on June 21, 2017 [22 favorites]
They did work. $24 million for a House race is working. They're not sending those to you to get you to move to GA-6 and vote.That's a good point; I guess I assumed that the entire campaign was similar in tone to the facet that I saw of it (those emails, pro-Ossoff dinosaurs, etc).
I also thought that a lot of the money came in largely due to the narrative around this particular special election, as a referendum on Trump, but the email campaign could have convinced donors to donate multiple times.
posted by cybertaur1 at 8:31 AM on June 21, 2017
@ThePlumLineGS
Via @Alex_Roarty and @katieglueck, Ossoff lost because there are a lot of Republican voters in the district:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article157305789.html
@williamjordann Retweeted Greg Sargent
On this—in May there was a GA6 poll that released crosstabs. Handel was winning only 80% of Rs, 6% of Ds, 39% of indies
Topline: Handel +2
@ThePlumLineGS Replying to @williamjordann
Interesting. That would seem to mean that Ds actually did manage to move some Rs away from her, but still fell short, right?
@williamjordann Replying to @ThePlumLineGS
Yeah, I wd think so. (Given Dem House performance in past for GA6 & '17 turnout, he must have picked up nontrivial number of traditional Rs)
---
Handel won by 3.7. So if you assume this poll approximates the electorate, Ossoff dominated with Inds and pulled a good amount of Rs, but the district was just too R. And again, there are 93 less conservative districts than this.
posted by chris24 at 8:31 AM on June 21, 2017 [56 favorites]
Via @Alex_Roarty and @katieglueck, Ossoff lost because there are a lot of Republican voters in the district:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article157305789.html
But Ossoff still lost in Georgia’s 6th Congressional District because his supporters, even when combined with politically moderate independents, couldn’t outnumber Republican partisans. In the election’s final days, GOP strategists working the race said if Handel simply turned out enough GOP partisans, Ossoff and the Democrats wouldn’t be able to catch up.
They were right.
@williamjordann Retweeted Greg Sargent
On this—in May there was a GA6 poll that released crosstabs. Handel was winning only 80% of Rs, 6% of Ds, 39% of indies
Topline: Handel +2
@ThePlumLineGS Replying to @williamjordann
Interesting. That would seem to mean that Ds actually did manage to move some Rs away from her, but still fell short, right?
@williamjordann Replying to @ThePlumLineGS
Yeah, I wd think so. (Given Dem House performance in past for GA6 & '17 turnout, he must have picked up nontrivial number of traditional Rs)
---
Handel won by 3.7. So if you assume this poll approximates the electorate, Ossoff dominated with Inds and pulled a good amount of Rs, but the district was just too R. And again, there are 93 less conservative districts than this.
posted by chris24 at 8:31 AM on June 21, 2017 [56 favorites]
I want to note one thing in particular: most people are NOT political junkies like the posters here. Most people are not that plugged in, and are concentrating on other, to them more important, things in their lives. And for those who are juggling work, family, pets, and trying to squeeze in a little leisure time for themselves (to name one very common situation people find themselves in) checking out CNN or (ugh ugh) Fox might be the most they can/will do.
Yep, I'd even take it a step further, at least here in the red-state Midwest, vis-a-vis what Soren_Lorensen said upthread:
Republicanism isn't an ideology, it's an identity.
Once that identity's locked in—not hard to happen when 99% of what's around you reinforces that identity—you kind of don't even have to worry about the issues and the candidates any more. You know which side is right, and data points to the contrary are just noise. Why bother with the big words and the brain-hurting and the know-nothing college types sneering at you, when you can just hitch your wagon to Team America, pull the lever to make it official when you're told to, and be done with it?
This is a big, big block of voters we need to worry about.
posted by Rykey at 8:41 AM on June 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yep, I'd even take it a step further, at least here in the red-state Midwest, vis-a-vis what Soren_Lorensen said upthread:
Republicanism isn't an ideology, it's an identity.
Once that identity's locked in—not hard to happen when 99% of what's around you reinforces that identity—you kind of don't even have to worry about the issues and the candidates any more. You know which side is right, and data points to the contrary are just noise. Why bother with the big words and the brain-hurting and the know-nothing college types sneering at you, when you can just hitch your wagon to Team America, pull the lever to make it official when you're told to, and be done with it?
This is a big, big block of voters we need to worry about.
posted by Rykey at 8:41 AM on June 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
Handel was winning only 80% of Rs...
And a bit more info on this number. In 2016, Trump, even with all his issues and the supposed NeverTrumpers, got 90% of Rs according to exit polls. 80% of your own party is a disaster in competitive districts.
posted by chris24 at 8:41 AM on June 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
And a bit more info on this number. In 2016, Trump, even with all his issues and the supposed NeverTrumpers, got 90% of Rs according to exit polls. 80% of your own party is a disaster in competitive districts.
posted by chris24 at 8:41 AM on June 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
Jeh Johnson (former DHS Sec.) testified in front of the House Intel Committee this morning. Shareblue liveblogged the Q&A in this twitter thread.
posted by melissasaurus at 8:42 AM on June 21, 2017
posted by melissasaurus at 8:42 AM on June 21, 2017
This is a big, big block of voters we need to worry about.
I actually think we shouldn't worry about them. Dealing with them veers sharply from politics into psychology and is a distraction. Or at least, don't worry about them until we are sure that we have not left any persuadable, engaged voters on the table.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:45 AM on June 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
I actually think we shouldn't worry about them. Dealing with them veers sharply from politics into psychology and is a distraction. Or at least, don't worry about them until we are sure that we have not left any persuadable, engaged voters on the table.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:45 AM on June 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
Hamilton Nolan, Fusion: "Bipartisanship" Means "I Don't Understand What Politics Is"
Politics is little more than a baseball game when you don’t need anything. Civility seems like a pressing matter when you already have everything else you require. Bipartisanship sounds like a good idea when ideas affect you in purely abstract ways—when your rights and your power and your wealth and your standard of living will all be fine no matter what Congress does. This describes the situation of the vast majority of the pundit and political class bent on promoting bipartisanship. When all of the important things in your life are peachy, it is easy for surface matters like manners to take on an outsized importance. Why be so partisan, when it’s all a game? Why be so mad at each other about politics that we can no longer have nice parties? Aren’t we all here, primarily, to party?posted by tonycpsu at 8:51 AM on June 21, 2017 [80 favorites]
Everything in politics cannot be solved by compromise. Abortion is legal, or it’s not. That awful Supreme Court justice is confirmed, or he’s not. Pollution is properly regulated, or it’s not. Our tax system is sufficiently progressive, or it’s not. We go to war, or we don’t. Every one of these choices is ultimately a statement of morality—a conviction about what is right and wrong. Valuing “bipartisanship” on the really important issues is an admission that you have no real beliefs. What are bipartisanship and civility in comparison to life and death and human rights? How important is bipartisanship in the context of losing your health care, or sending your son off to be shot in a war? Where is the compromise to be found in an economic system that allows the very rich to accumulate staggering fortunes as tens of millions struggle to survive? Anyone with any sense of decency would be ashamed to be caught railing about the value of Congressional games when there is a real possibility that these people could force your neighbor to seek a back alley abortion and then be bankrupted by the resulting medical complications. Anyone with a proper understanding of the stakes of politics will find this fetish for politeness obscene. Is civility a greater value than life and death and war and human rights? The bipartisans, who desperately seek compromise for the sake of their own social comfort with little regard for the human costs, are amoral monsters. And they should be treated as such.
Jeh Johnson (former DHS Sec.) testified in front of the House Intel Committee this morning. Shareblue liveblogged the Q&A in this twitter thread.
Correction: the hearing is still happening (CSPAN link)
posted by melissasaurus at 8:51 AM on June 21, 2017
Correction: the hearing is still happening (CSPAN link)
posted by melissasaurus at 8:51 AM on June 21, 2017
I will say that if you want the Democrats to win, we need to do what wins.
How have the Republicans won a majority in the House, a majority in the Senate, the Presidency, and nearly 3/4 of state governments?
By relentless negativity.
By bitter, vicious, give no ground, partisanship.
By a never ending stream of hate, vitriol, attack ads, and demonization of the opposition.
By building and maintaining a network of right wing personalities and the media to promote them, from hate radio to FOX "News", to InfoWars, to Trump's twitter feed, to right wing newspapers.
By, in other words, utterly and completely abandoning any and all pretense of bipartisanship, shared American values, comity, or belief in Democrats as fellow Americans who have different ideas but are fundamentally good people.
How will we win?
We will not win by playing nice.
We will not win by appeals to America's better nature.
We will not win by making milquetoast appeals to bipartisanship, comity, and a shared Americanism.
We know what will not work, what does not work, what cannot work. So how do we win?
By doing what we know works.
We win by doing to them what they did to us, only doing it first, harder, and nastier.
We are in dire, desperate, need of a leftist answer to FOX News, to InfoWars, to hate radio. Liberals tend to listen to different media than Republicans so we can't simply copy exactly what they do. But at the same time, ceding the entire AM spectrum to the Republicans without even trying to fight back with our own stations and talkers was a grievous mistake.
Clinton's basket of deplorables line was one of the best things she ever did, the only failure was that she backed down on it instead of doubling down on it. She should have pushed so much harder on demonizing Republicans and Trump Cultists.
We need Soros, Gates, and all the other Democratic billionaires to bankroll a real leftist media project to counter the decades of us abandoning the field to the right.
We need to drag the Overton Window our way by having our own "crazies" to promote ideas outside the acceptable mainstream, our own set of leftist media to normalize those fringe far left talking points by "reporting on the controversy", and then our own team of acceptable moderates to push the now normalized talking points on mainstream news media.
We need to remember Reagan's 11th Commandment. We should never, ever, condemn a leftist. I don't give a shit if you think Michael Moore is an assclown, STFU and remember that he's on our team. The absolute worst you should ever do to any leftist agitator is ignore them, but we should never, ever, condemn or criticize them. We should never, ever, admit that any right criticism of them is valid. They criticize our crazies we deflect, we don't admit they have a good point. We need a healthy crop of "crazies" to move the Overton Window and pull in our fringe. Sure, they don't get invites to red carpet events, that's not their job, but the people there should never say one single bad word about anyone on the left or admit that any criticism of anyone on the left is valid or worthwhile.
Any criticism of anyone on the left must immediately be decried as horrible partisanship and held up as a prime example of the Republicans violating the laws of decorum. They play the victim very well, we must match them.
I want to win, and I see only one example of an empirically verified way to win: the Republican approach. We must learn from them, copy what we can, adapt what we can't directly copy, meet them on their own battlefields and leave nothing uncontested.
Yes, left wing AM radio would be a money losing proposition and probably have few listeners. We must do it anyway just so we aren't leaving AM radio uncontested.
If our answer to FOX is MSNBC then no wonder we're losing so horribly. We need unabashed, unashamed, blatant, left wing news that always blames any and all problems on Republicans, not this pathetic bothsidesism infected centrist "balanced" crap we keep getting.
I want to win. And I will do whatever it takes to win. Will you?
posted by sotonohito at 8:52 AM on June 21, 2017 [39 favorites]
How have the Republicans won a majority in the House, a majority in the Senate, the Presidency, and nearly 3/4 of state governments?
By relentless negativity.
By bitter, vicious, give no ground, partisanship.
By a never ending stream of hate, vitriol, attack ads, and demonization of the opposition.
By building and maintaining a network of right wing personalities and the media to promote them, from hate radio to FOX "News", to InfoWars, to Trump's twitter feed, to right wing newspapers.
By, in other words, utterly and completely abandoning any and all pretense of bipartisanship, shared American values, comity, or belief in Democrats as fellow Americans who have different ideas but are fundamentally good people.
How will we win?
We will not win by playing nice.
We will not win by appeals to America's better nature.
We will not win by making milquetoast appeals to bipartisanship, comity, and a shared Americanism.
We know what will not work, what does not work, what cannot work. So how do we win?
By doing what we know works.
We win by doing to them what they did to us, only doing it first, harder, and nastier.
We are in dire, desperate, need of a leftist answer to FOX News, to InfoWars, to hate radio. Liberals tend to listen to different media than Republicans so we can't simply copy exactly what they do. But at the same time, ceding the entire AM spectrum to the Republicans without even trying to fight back with our own stations and talkers was a grievous mistake.
Clinton's basket of deplorables line was one of the best things she ever did, the only failure was that she backed down on it instead of doubling down on it. She should have pushed so much harder on demonizing Republicans and Trump Cultists.
We need Soros, Gates, and all the other Democratic billionaires to bankroll a real leftist media project to counter the decades of us abandoning the field to the right.
We need to drag the Overton Window our way by having our own "crazies" to promote ideas outside the acceptable mainstream, our own set of leftist media to normalize those fringe far left talking points by "reporting on the controversy", and then our own team of acceptable moderates to push the now normalized talking points on mainstream news media.
We need to remember Reagan's 11th Commandment. We should never, ever, condemn a leftist. I don't give a shit if you think Michael Moore is an assclown, STFU and remember that he's on our team. The absolute worst you should ever do to any leftist agitator is ignore them, but we should never, ever, condemn or criticize them. We should never, ever, admit that any right criticism of them is valid. They criticize our crazies we deflect, we don't admit they have a good point. We need a healthy crop of "crazies" to move the Overton Window and pull in our fringe. Sure, they don't get invites to red carpet events, that's not their job, but the people there should never say one single bad word about anyone on the left or admit that any criticism of anyone on the left is valid or worthwhile.
Any criticism of anyone on the left must immediately be decried as horrible partisanship and held up as a prime example of the Republicans violating the laws of decorum. They play the victim very well, we must match them.
I want to win, and I see only one example of an empirically verified way to win: the Republican approach. We must learn from them, copy what we can, adapt what we can't directly copy, meet them on their own battlefields and leave nothing uncontested.
Yes, left wing AM radio would be a money losing proposition and probably have few listeners. We must do it anyway just so we aren't leaving AM radio uncontested.
If our answer to FOX is MSNBC then no wonder we're losing so horribly. We need unabashed, unashamed, blatant, left wing news that always blames any and all problems on Republicans, not this pathetic bothsidesism infected centrist "balanced" crap we keep getting.
I want to win. And I will do whatever it takes to win. Will you?
posted by sotonohito at 8:52 AM on June 21, 2017 [39 favorites]
veers sharply from politics into psychology
Politics IS Psychology. The Democrats need to step up their game and stop trying to win purely on the merit of their Good Ideas.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 8:53 AM on June 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Politics IS Psychology. The Democrats need to step up their game and stop trying to win purely on the merit of their Good Ideas.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 8:53 AM on June 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
jack bishop wrote: just how extraordinary the last half century has been in changing the overall social landscape. Ignoring the specific legal landmarks, we are in living memory of a time when the notion that a woman could have a career, a gay person a family, or a black person any standing at all in society were weird, aberrant ways of thinking of things, and those who bucked the trend were, whether admired or reviled, all too often regarded as freaks. People who internalized that way of looking at things are still alive but a shrinking minority. This is what we're fighting against and time is doing some of the work for us.
This. And remember that everything the R's have been doing the last 40 something years has been about delaying the inevitable, not stopping it. Because it cannot be stopped. I know, 40 years, which will end up being 50 years or even a bit more are too long for someone who got shot by police when he was 27, or who died of a curable disease because she was poor, but the knowledge that this will end is important. And the wisdom that this will end faster if we all fight is important (yeah, there is fighting to be done even in socialist paradise here)
posted by mumimor at 8:53 AM on June 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
This. And remember that everything the R's have been doing the last 40 something years has been about delaying the inevitable, not stopping it. Because it cannot be stopped. I know, 40 years, which will end up being 50 years or even a bit more are too long for someone who got shot by police when he was 27, or who died of a curable disease because she was poor, but the knowledge that this will end is important. And the wisdom that this will end faster if we all fight is important (yeah, there is fighting to be done even in socialist paradise here)
posted by mumimor at 8:53 AM on June 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
Take that Wapo story on Trump wanting to get rid of 8% of the EPA workforce.
We need to frame it as: Republicans want you to die choking on pollution.
We need to frame "regulations" as "protections". As in "Today Donald J Trump rolled back 750 protections that keep your water and food safe, opening the door for his cronies to poison your children!"
"In his ongoing efforts to poison your water, Trump is trying to slash nearly 10% of the EPA's workforce so the agency can no longer keep an eye his polluting campaign donors. Trump, who only drinks imported French bottled water, isn't worried about water purity for anyone else."
And we need that framing pushed, aggressively, on all forms of media from radio to web to print to TV to podcast, and repeated endlessly until even the lowest information voter "knows" that Trump is an elitist scumbag who wants them to die from contaminated water.
posted by sotonohito at 8:57 AM on June 21, 2017 [89 favorites]
We need to frame it as: Republicans want you to die choking on pollution.
We need to frame "regulations" as "protections". As in "Today Donald J Trump rolled back 750 protections that keep your water and food safe, opening the door for his cronies to poison your children!"
"In his ongoing efforts to poison your water, Trump is trying to slash nearly 10% of the EPA's workforce so the agency can no longer keep an eye his polluting campaign donors. Trump, who only drinks imported French bottled water, isn't worried about water purity for anyone else."
And we need that framing pushed, aggressively, on all forms of media from radio to web to print to TV to podcast, and repeated endlessly until even the lowest information voter "knows" that Trump is an elitist scumbag who wants them to die from contaminated water.
posted by sotonohito at 8:57 AM on June 21, 2017 [89 favorites]
We need to drag the Overton Window our way by having our own "crazies" to promote ideas outside the acceptable mainstream, our own set of leftist media to normalize those fringe far left talking points by "reporting on the controversy", and then our own team of acceptable moderates to push the now normalized talking points on mainstream news media.
No. This is not the way to win. Yes, dirty tricks, lying and stealing has worked for them, but that doesn't mean we should participate. If we are going to win, we are going to win ethically. We are going to win in a way that we aren't peeking around every corner to make sure we've not been caught. We're going to win making sure we have put out our best and brightest. I will not vote for a democratic party that lies, cheats and steals as much as the republicans do now.
Hard pass.
posted by Sophie1 at 8:58 AM on June 21, 2017 [19 favorites]
No. This is not the way to win. Yes, dirty tricks, lying and stealing has worked for them, but that doesn't mean we should participate. If we are going to win, we are going to win ethically. We are going to win in a way that we aren't peeking around every corner to make sure we've not been caught. We're going to win making sure we have put out our best and brightest. I will not vote for a democratic party that lies, cheats and steals as much as the republicans do now.
Hard pass.
posted by Sophie1 at 8:58 AM on June 21, 2017 [19 favorites]
We are going to win in a way that we aren't peeking around every corner to make sure we've not been caught.
It's not like the Republican base doesn't know what's going on. They're barely concealing what they're doing, and simply don't give a shit if they're caught.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 9:02 AM on June 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
It's not like the Republican base doesn't know what's going on. They're barely concealing what they're doing, and simply don't give a shit if they're caught.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 9:02 AM on June 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
Amy B Wang/WaPo: A radio host was warned not to criticize President Trump. So he quit.
The host is Bruce Bond, formerly of WTPA FM, Pennsylvania.
The host is Bruce Bond, formerly of WTPA FM, Pennsylvania.
This is to serve as notice that it is not permissible on WTPA airwaves to talk [disrepectfully] of the President,” [station general manager Tim] Michaels wrote in the memo, which Bonds later shared on Facebook. “I have received backlash in the form of emails, phones calls and such. I have listeners threatening a boycotts of sponsors and social media campaigns against the station, I have spoken with several parties personally this week that are very angered and have discontinued listening to WTPA, and are encouraging their friends to do the same. This cannot continue to happen.”posted by ZeusHumms at 9:04 AM on June 21, 2017 [27 favorites]
The message ended with a reminder that Bond had been warned before: “I have asked previously to cease political discussion. If this cannot be [achieved] we will have no choice but to discontinue the show.”
For Bond, the memo was the final straw after more than a year and a half of pressure from his supervisors to stay silent about anything related to politics — particularly, after the election, any negative mention of Trump.
We need to frame it as: Republicans want you to die choking on pollution.
Yep, a lot of it is framing. The Republicans are way better at this.
For example, why is the entire healthcare debate not framed in terms of "pro-healthcare" and "anti-healthcare"? Or better even "pro-health" and "anti-health".
Get on record with statements such as "The Democrats refuse to help Republicans push through their anti-health agenda."
Ask Republicans point-blank why they are "anti-healthcare".
posted by sour cream at 9:04 AM on June 21, 2017 [42 favorites]
Yep, a lot of it is framing. The Republicans are way better at this.
For example, why is the entire healthcare debate not framed in terms of "pro-healthcare" and "anti-healthcare"? Or better even "pro-health" and "anti-health".
Get on record with statements such as "The Democrats refuse to help Republicans push through their anti-health agenda."
Ask Republicans point-blank why they are "anti-healthcare".
posted by sour cream at 9:04 AM on June 21, 2017 [42 favorites]
This is a big, big block of voters we need to worry about.
I actually think we shouldn't worry about them. Dealing with them veers sharply from politics into psychology and is a distraction.
Oh, I don't think we should worry too much about persuading them—yes, that would a distraction away from more productive action.
We *should* worry that they're such a huge, loyal number of voters, though. It means we need to work extra hard to make sure the people who outnumber them vote, change policy and culture so that fewer of them are propagated and recruited going forward, and rebuild civil society around progressive values.
In short, we need to do what the Moral Majority religious right types did to mobilize in the 80s, except with the opposite agenda.
posted by Rykey at 9:05 AM on June 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
I actually think we shouldn't worry about them. Dealing with them veers sharply from politics into psychology and is a distraction.
Oh, I don't think we should worry too much about persuading them—yes, that would a distraction away from more productive action.
We *should* worry that they're such a huge, loyal number of voters, though. It means we need to work extra hard to make sure the people who outnumber them vote, change policy and culture so that fewer of them are propagated and recruited going forward, and rebuild civil society around progressive values.
In short, we need to do what the Moral Majority religious right types did to mobilize in the 80s, except with the opposite agenda.
posted by Rykey at 9:05 AM on June 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
For example, why is the entire healthcare debate not framed in terms of "pro-healthcare" and "anti-healthcare"? Or better even "pro-health" and "anti-health".
Get on record with statements such as "The Democrats refuse to help Republicans push through their anti-health agenda."
Ask Republicans point-blank why they are "anti-healthcare".
Can we tie this to "pro-life"/"pro-choice"?
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:06 AM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Get on record with statements such as "The Democrats refuse to help Republicans push through their anti-health agenda."
Ask Republicans point-blank why they are "anti-healthcare".
Can we tie this to "pro-life"/"pro-choice"?
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:06 AM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Sotonohito, I agree with correct framing. But if it dips into lying to the people, that's where we part ways.
I know it's the age old question of if the ends justify the means. I'm in the no camp.
posted by greermahoney at 9:08 AM on June 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
I know it's the age old question of if the ends justify the means. I'm in the no camp.
posted by greermahoney at 9:08 AM on June 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Republicans want to win, and Democrats want to be right, and acknowledged by everyone as right, which will naturally result in a win.
As the saying goes, history is written by the winner, so we need to stop putting the cart before the horse. Win first, then drive the narrative about being right by virtue of having won.
posted by Autumnheart at 9:08 AM on June 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
As the saying goes, history is written by the winner, so we need to stop putting the cart before the horse. Win first, then drive the narrative about being right by virtue of having won.
posted by Autumnheart at 9:08 AM on June 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
> I want to win. And I will do whatever it takes to win. Will you?
"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster."
posted by klarck at 9:09 AM on June 21, 2017 [22 favorites]
"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster."
posted by klarck at 9:09 AM on June 21, 2017 [22 favorites]
Sotonohito, I agree with correct framing. But if it dips into lying to the people, that's where we part ways. I know it's the age old question of if the ends justify the means. I'm in the no camp.
Yeah, but we don't need to lie. If giving the Republicans more rope to hang themselves were a thing, we currently have the world's biggest ball of rope and could hang them from orbit with all the shitty things they do. We need to stop being too nice to use it.
posted by Autumnheart at 9:10 AM on June 21, 2017 [18 favorites]
Yeah, but we don't need to lie. If giving the Republicans more rope to hang themselves were a thing, we currently have the world's biggest ball of rope and could hang them from orbit with all the shitty things they do. We need to stop being too nice to use it.
posted by Autumnheart at 9:10 AM on June 21, 2017 [18 favorites]
I'd like one of you to look 100,000 dead Iraqis in the eye and say "I'm sorry we killed you in that war, but it would have been really disconcerting to me if Democrats had ran a negative campaign about GWB's drinking and drug use."
posted by 0xFCAF at 9:11 AM on June 21, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by 0xFCAF at 9:11 AM on June 21, 2017 [29 favorites]
Look, I totally understand the motivation, and even the logic of fighting fire with fire, but it doesn't work. It has never worked. The left is made up of primarily idealists and optimists, who are incapable of becoming mirrorland republicans. Witness the various leftist media empires which never were, despite huge funding and great talent pools. Overthinking ethical beans is what we do man.
But we do outnumber them. And we need to find a way for people to safely express their displeasure, like the women's march and science march. We need better messaging on tactics like strikes and boycotts , and we need to create a huge portfolio of candidates.
Every single race should be contested. From dogxatcher to governors, there should never be a blank space opposing the republican. The dccc needs to focus on ground gains and local elections.
We need serious leftist Pacs. We need messaging that tells the unvarnished truth about the republican plans. But, we don't need to fight dirty or dishonest. We just need to tell the truth.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 9:15 AM on June 21, 2017 [24 favorites]
But we do outnumber them. And we need to find a way for people to safely express their displeasure, like the women's march and science march. We need better messaging on tactics like strikes and boycotts , and we need to create a huge portfolio of candidates.
Every single race should be contested. From dogxatcher to governors, there should never be a blank space opposing the republican. The dccc needs to focus on ground gains and local elections.
We need serious leftist Pacs. We need messaging that tells the unvarnished truth about the republican plans. But, we don't need to fight dirty or dishonest. We just need to tell the truth.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 9:15 AM on June 21, 2017 [24 favorites]
"It sucks that you died in a backalley abortion, but it was very important to me that we ran a positive, policy-oriented campaign, even if that meant losing"
"You're homeless now and that seems bad, but it's nothing compared to how bad it would be if we actually said out loud that Republicans are racists"
"I hope you can see that the value of appealing to bipartisanship far exceeds the fact that your insurance has stopped paying for your child's chemotherapy"
posted by 0xFCAF at 9:16 AM on June 21, 2017 [35 favorites]
"You're homeless now and that seems bad, but it's nothing compared to how bad it would be if we actually said out loud that Republicans are racists"
"I hope you can see that the value of appealing to bipartisanship far exceeds the fact that your insurance has stopped paying for your child's chemotherapy"
posted by 0xFCAF at 9:16 AM on June 21, 2017 [35 favorites]
I think that's why Randy Bryce's political ad is so powerful. It's relatable, it's immediately relevant (Mom with MS will be immediately in the shit), and it's true on a vivid level. It's not dirty, but it reveals Republican dirt in all its slimy glory. We need more marketing like that.
posted by Autumnheart at 9:17 AM on June 21, 2017 [35 favorites]
posted by Autumnheart at 9:17 AM on June 21, 2017 [35 favorites]
That's one way to say that the ends justify the means, but those means risk tearing further at the fabric of American society causing bitterness, hatred and violence to spread.
There are ways to run a clean campaign, predicated on a positive vision of social and political action.
The reality of what the Republicans are doing with Healthcare, the Environment, Civil Rights etc, is all the 'negativity' we need.
posted by kuatto at 9:17 AM on June 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
There are ways to run a clean campaign, predicated on a positive vision of social and political action.
The reality of what the Republicans are doing with Healthcare, the Environment, Civil Rights etc, is all the 'negativity' we need.
posted by kuatto at 9:17 AM on June 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Targeted marketing is not lying and it's not morally compromising. You don't need to change your values to persuade people, you just have to state those values persuasively. People make this blanket assumption that "person has not voted for us in the past"="person will never vote for us unless we change our values," without accounting for the idea that maybe we just haven't adequately delivered the message.
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:21 AM on June 21, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:21 AM on June 21, 2017 [16 favorites]
I would also like to point out that a big reason we liberals think that "going low" is too mean for us, is because that's been the Republican bullshit narrative since Reagan about how liberals are so mean to everyone, with their education and elitism and thinking we know better. This is like the bully who jabs pencils in your back all semester and then gets you sent to the principal when you hit back.
It's time to be mean.
posted by Autumnheart at 9:23 AM on June 21, 2017 [15 favorites]
It's time to be mean.
posted by Autumnheart at 9:23 AM on June 21, 2017 [15 favorites]
Re: messaging. Truly, it was a stroke of genius for Republicans to decide on "patient-centered" as a euphemism for "profit-centered death systems" in the discourse surrounding the AHCA.
Republicans: profit-centered :: Democrats: profit-progressives
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:24 AM on June 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Republicans: profit-centered :: Democrats: profit-progressives
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:24 AM on June 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
kuatto: There are ways to run a clean campaign, predicated on a positive vision of social and political action.
OK, I agree. But I can't help it if Republican actions are so cartoonishly evil. I mean, do you disagree with the premises behind these inflammatory statements by 0xFCAF?
> "It sucks that you died in a backalley abortion [...]"
> "You're homeless now and that seems bad [...]"
> "[...] your insurance has stopped paying for your child's chemotherapy"
These are real outcomes of the policies that Republicans are pushing. Grandma will lose her nursing home, there will be death panels - or there won't only because insurance denials won't even bother with appeals panels - and people will be free to die in ditches once their savings (ha ha) run out.
I don't want those things. Is that not a positive enough vision?
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:24 AM on June 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
OK, I agree. But I can't help it if Republican actions are so cartoonishly evil. I mean, do you disagree with the premises behind these inflammatory statements by 0xFCAF?
> "It sucks that you died in a backalley abortion [...]"
> "You're homeless now and that seems bad [...]"
> "[...] your insurance has stopped paying for your child's chemotherapy"
These are real outcomes of the policies that Republicans are pushing. Grandma will lose her nursing home, there will be death panels - or there won't only because insurance denials won't even bother with appeals panels - and people will be free to die in ditches once their savings (ha ha) run out.
I don't want those things. Is that not a positive enough vision?
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:24 AM on June 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
Like literally our democracy is at stake. We have a budding dictator in the Oval Office, who is compromised by a foreign government. If not now, when? Are we going to be the nicest people in the gulag?
posted by Autumnheart at 9:25 AM on June 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Autumnheart at 9:25 AM on June 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
I am afraid that the national D's will take exactly the wrong lesson from the results in GA and SC.
I think they'll decide they shouldn't pour money into races, because then they become national events.
But I think what they *should* decide is to pour money into *all* races. Make the R's fight on multiple fronts; if they were fighting both in SC and in GA maybe we could have won one of them. Instead we let them concentrate monetary firepower in just GA.
posted by nat at 9:25 AM on June 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
I think they'll decide they shouldn't pour money into races, because then they become national events.
But I think what they *should* decide is to pour money into *all* races. Make the R's fight on multiple fronts; if they were fighting both in SC and in GA maybe we could have won one of them. Instead we let them concentrate monetary firepower in just GA.
posted by nat at 9:25 AM on June 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
Is civility a greater value than life and death and war and human rights?
I feel like this author doesn't understand that without the veneer of civility and "we're all in this together", everyone starts picking up rifles and getting their new blue and grey uniforms ready. It's not whether civility as an abstract value is more important than life and death, it's whether the country not being wracked by civil war - creating massive, massive death and suffering - is more important than the things currently on the table.
posted by corb at 9:25 AM on June 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
I feel like this author doesn't understand that without the veneer of civility and "we're all in this together", everyone starts picking up rifles and getting their new blue and grey uniforms ready. It's not whether civility as an abstract value is more important than life and death, it's whether the country not being wracked by civil war - creating massive, massive death and suffering - is more important than the things currently on the table.
posted by corb at 9:25 AM on June 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
I just realized this can all be explained with Dungeons & Dragons. The Republicans run Neutral Evil campaigns. They put the Lawful Evil candidates out front and back them up with Chaotic Evil footsoldiers. Meanwhile, the establishment Democrats are running Lawful Neutral campaigns, and they think this is enough. We have a handful of Lawful Good candidates out there, and that's great, but the DNC is trying to broaden its base by peeling off Lawful Evil and Neutral Evil voters from the Republicans, and is leaving a hell of a lot of Chaotic Good voters and activists out in the cold. Somehow, we need to convince the party as a whole to worry more about Good and less about Lawful.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:27 AM on June 21, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:27 AM on June 21, 2017 [29 favorites]
I think that's why Randy Bryce's political ad is so powerful. It's relatable, it's immediately relevant (Mom with MS will be immediately in the shit), and it's true on a vivid level. It's not dirty, but it reveals Republican dirt in all its slimy glory. We need more marketing like that.
You need more *candidates* like that. Especially in rural or suburban districts or states. Too many Dem candidates seem to be uptight academics with no social connectability. The kind of people to whom a term like "liberal elite" sticks and sticks hard. Run those people in safe D areas, but if you want to flip a red state or district blue you need to put up someone the voters can reasonably see as "one of them". If that means running a working stiff who watches sports and drinks beer straight from a can, but also supports leftist causes, then that's who you should run. They're out there.
posted by rocket88 at 9:27 AM on June 21, 2017 [8 favorites]
You need more *candidates* like that. Especially in rural or suburban districts or states. Too many Dem candidates seem to be uptight academics with no social connectability. The kind of people to whom a term like "liberal elite" sticks and sticks hard. Run those people in safe D areas, but if you want to flip a red state or district blue you need to put up someone the voters can reasonably see as "one of them". If that means running a working stiff who watches sports and drinks beer straight from a can, but also supports leftist causes, then that's who you should run. They're out there.
posted by rocket88 at 9:27 AM on June 21, 2017 [8 favorites]
Unfortunately, civility for Democrats means that Republicans get to be as shitty as they want in both style and substance and we are not allowed to fight back.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 9:28 AM on June 21, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by OverlappingElvis at 9:28 AM on June 21, 2017 [11 favorites]
What are bipartisanship and civility in comparison to life and death and human rights? How important is bipartisanship in the context of losing your health care, or sending your son off to be shot in a war? Where is the compromise to be found in an economic system that allows the very rich to accumulate staggering fortunes as tens of millions struggle to survive? Anyone with any sense of decency would be ashamed to be caught railing about the value of Congressional games when there is a real possibility that these people could force your neighbor to seek a back alley abortion and then be bankrupted by the resulting medical complications. Anyone with a proper understanding of the stakes of politics will find this fetish for politeness obscene. Is civility a greater value than life and death and war and human rights? The bipartisans, who desperately seek compromise for the sake of their own social comfort with little regard for the human costs, are amoral monsters. And they should be treated as such.
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism, while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
- William Ralph Inge
Republicans control all branches of our Federal government and many State governments. That's not going to change before November 2018 at the earliest, and realistically Democrats who win next year's elections can't do anything legislatively until January 2019. It's fine to talk about stonewalling and not offering Democratic approval to anything that Republicans do, and I agree that in some cases that's exactly what they should be doing. But that is an entirely symbolic gesture when Republicans have all the power.
Right now Democrats in Congress have two options: 1) be the party of no, or 2) try to work with their more moderate colleagues across the aisle to eliminate some of the worst effects of legislation that is going to pass anyway.
In many if not most cases, option 1 will be the only moral one. Frankly, it may be their only option in the House. The 2018 elections do not look good for the Democrats in the House. They will be defending 25 seats. They will need to flip all 25 plus an additional 3 Republican seats (likely candidates are New Mexico and Arizona,) to gain a slim majority. Five of the seats they're defending are in high red majority states: Indiana, Missouri, Montana, North Dakota and West Virginia.
But in some cases the Dems moral obligation to the American people may very well be option 2. There are 52 Republican Senators. This is a very narrow majority. Turn 2 and you have a tie. Turn 3 and you have a win. It's possible that bipartisanship may be key to Democratic victories in the Senate from now through the next election. If Trump's erratic, insane behavior, the stupidity and corruption of his administration and also consistent public outcry spook any moderate Republicans, that's going to be the GOP's weakest link.
The Dems have never been unified and they're not good at presenting a united front. There are a number of House Democrats who are in barely blue districts who will be vulnerable come re-election if they don't support Republican legislation on specific issues. Such as tax relief. Or Trump's infrastructure plans. Relying on them to speak with one voice and not vote with Republicans to cover their own asses is a fool's errand.
Sometimes holding the line is going to mean actively creating incremental victories against terrible laws.
posted by zarq at 9:29 AM on June 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism, while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
- William Ralph Inge
Republicans control all branches of our Federal government and many State governments. That's not going to change before November 2018 at the earliest, and realistically Democrats who win next year's elections can't do anything legislatively until January 2019. It's fine to talk about stonewalling and not offering Democratic approval to anything that Republicans do, and I agree that in some cases that's exactly what they should be doing. But that is an entirely symbolic gesture when Republicans have all the power.
Right now Democrats in Congress have two options: 1) be the party of no, or 2) try to work with their more moderate colleagues across the aisle to eliminate some of the worst effects of legislation that is going to pass anyway.
In many if not most cases, option 1 will be the only moral one. Frankly, it may be their only option in the House. The 2018 elections do not look good for the Democrats in the House. They will be defending 25 seats. They will need to flip all 25 plus an additional 3 Republican seats (likely candidates are New Mexico and Arizona,) to gain a slim majority. Five of the seats they're defending are in high red majority states: Indiana, Missouri, Montana, North Dakota and West Virginia.
But in some cases the Dems moral obligation to the American people may very well be option 2. There are 52 Republican Senators. This is a very narrow majority. Turn 2 and you have a tie. Turn 3 and you have a win. It's possible that bipartisanship may be key to Democratic victories in the Senate from now through the next election. If Trump's erratic, insane behavior, the stupidity and corruption of his administration and also consistent public outcry spook any moderate Republicans, that's going to be the GOP's weakest link.
The Dems have never been unified and they're not good at presenting a united front. There are a number of House Democrats who are in barely blue districts who will be vulnerable come re-election if they don't support Republican legislation on specific issues. Such as tax relief. Or Trump's infrastructure plans. Relying on them to speak with one voice and not vote with Republicans to cover their own asses is a fool's errand.
Sometimes holding the line is going to mean actively creating incremental victories against terrible laws.
posted by zarq at 9:29 AM on June 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
Blaming Republicans loudly and often for problems and policies bought and paid for and caused by Republicans is not lying or dirty tricks. "We will win fairly, squarely, honorably and with dignity or not at all" ought to be the official motto of the Washington Generals.
You cannot topple Bullshit Mountain without equally aggressive stances and campaigning. Waiting for the general public to think independently and say "hey, the Repubs are lying to us" is a recipe for, well, what we have now. Attack and keep attacking or get backed into a corner every time. The truth is on your side; trumpet it.
posted by delfin at 9:29 AM on June 21, 2017 [19 favorites]
You cannot topple Bullshit Mountain without equally aggressive stances and campaigning. Waiting for the general public to think independently and say "hey, the Repubs are lying to us" is a recipe for, well, what we have now. Attack and keep attacking or get backed into a corner every time. The truth is on your side; trumpet it.
posted by delfin at 9:29 AM on June 21, 2017 [19 favorites]
You need more *candidates* like that. Especially in rural or suburban districts or states. Too many Dem candidates seem to be uptight academics with no social connectability. The kind of people to whom a term like "liberal elite" sticks and sticks hard. Run those people in safe D areas, but if you want to flip a red state or district blue you need to put up someone the voters can reasonably see as "one of them". If that means running a working stiff who watches sports and drinks beer straight from a can, but also supports leftist causes, then that's who you should run. They're out there.Counterpoint: Barack Obama, who seems to have connected fine with voters, was a constitutional law professor at one of the most elite law schools in the country.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:31 AM on June 21, 2017 [14 favorites]
Mean is not hte same as lying.
I don't want us to lie. I just want us to give up this Marquess of Queensberry shit the Democrats seem so addicted to and fight back for real.
They're kicking the shit out of us, and anytime a leftist tries to fight back suddenly every Democrat in the universe is stumbling over themselves to denounce that leftist and declare that they, bipartisan nice guys that they are, would never ever condone meanness.
We don't need to lie. But we **DO** need to aggressively attack them on every front, demonize them, and paint them as the vile scumfuckers who want us all to die in poverty that they are.
The truth is more than sufficient. We just need to be mean, aggressive, and relentless with it.
Again, look at Clinton. Her basket of deplorables line was fantastic. And as soon as she got any pushback about how horrible and non-bipartisan and not nice it was she backed down and apologized. That was the exact wrong thing to do. She should have doubled down and fought as mean, as vicious, and as ugly as Trump did.
posted by sotonohito at 9:31 AM on June 21, 2017 [54 favorites]
I don't want us to lie. I just want us to give up this Marquess of Queensberry shit the Democrats seem so addicted to and fight back for real.
They're kicking the shit out of us, and anytime a leftist tries to fight back suddenly every Democrat in the universe is stumbling over themselves to denounce that leftist and declare that they, bipartisan nice guys that they are, would never ever condone meanness.
We don't need to lie. But we **DO** need to aggressively attack them on every front, demonize them, and paint them as the vile scumfuckers who want us all to die in poverty that they are.
The truth is more than sufficient. We just need to be mean, aggressive, and relentless with it.
Again, look at Clinton. Her basket of deplorables line was fantastic. And as soon as she got any pushback about how horrible and non-bipartisan and not nice it was she backed down and apologized. That was the exact wrong thing to do. She should have doubled down and fought as mean, as vicious, and as ugly as Trump did.
posted by sotonohito at 9:31 AM on June 21, 2017 [54 favorites]
It occurs to me that Democrats are like the Jedi Council--aloof, out of touch, well-meaning, but utterly unequipped to deal with the sociopathic amorality of the Republican Empire. Our unwillingness to climb down from the throne of erudite morality and get dirty with the GOP will lead to more electoral losses. But if we stop clinging to our ideals about justice, morality, and democracy, in some ways we're no better than the opposition. Right? I mean, it's almost as if the Democrats are *becoming* the conservative party, what with all the pearl-clutching over Mitch McConnell's violation of the traditional rules and procedural norms of the Senate chamber. The GOP is being run by a fucking radical turtle while the Democrats try to conserve the union and democratic ideals.
posted by xyzzy at 9:33 AM on June 21, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 9:33 AM on June 21, 2017 [14 favorites]
From a senior Republican strategist.
@Ken_Spain
We lost PA-12 special in spring 2010. Tough loss and media said GOP was dead. Went on to win 63 seats six months later. #ThingsChange
posted by chris24 at 9:36 AM on June 21, 2017 [17 favorites]
@Ken_Spain
We lost PA-12 special in spring 2010. Tough loss and media said GOP was dead. Went on to win 63 seats six months later. #ThingsChange
posted by chris24 at 9:36 AM on June 21, 2017 [17 favorites]
There are a number of House Democrats who are in barely blue districts who will be vulnerable come re-election if they don't support Republican legislation on specific issues.
Signing on with the Republicans won't win them one Republican vote, nor will it prevent Republicans from demonizing them as the most leftist liberal ever. Appeasement does not work. It only depresses Democratic enthusiasm.
posted by LarsC at 9:37 AM on June 21, 2017 [16 favorites]
Signing on with the Republicans won't win them one Republican vote, nor will it prevent Republicans from demonizing them as the most leftist liberal ever. Appeasement does not work. It only depresses Democratic enthusiasm.
posted by LarsC at 9:37 AM on June 21, 2017 [16 favorites]
So who the hell am I? But I'm gonna talk Ossof v. Handel.
We had 'em running scared. That counts. That counts a lot.
I'm drunk, I don't own a car, and I'm the son of a state DARE coordinator back in the day, and her heez rubbed off, at least enough to convince me that being drunk every day is problematic. Less problematic than freaking out about it. Four beers, FWIW.
We got close with a lazy campaign that matched spending. That means we reject that shit. We, as in a vast majority of most people, even the apathetic. That needs to be appreciated and savored. All we have to do is keep up the pressure and the funding, and find candidates that only mildly suck, and we can win this by attrition, if nothing else, and we (at least those of us who have no other reason to quake in fear, those of us unaffected unless we go full totalitarianism, but for those of us who are NOT in my position, I stand with you, because there but for the grace of god go I) can beat these fucks.
We almost won in a place where it was hopeless. That's huge.
I have a lot of hope, but I don't have much to lose. I will lose if we lose. Keep fighting. So will I.
posted by saysthis at 9:39 AM on June 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
We had 'em running scared. That counts. That counts a lot.
I'm drunk, I don't own a car, and I'm the son of a state DARE coordinator back in the day, and her heez rubbed off, at least enough to convince me that being drunk every day is problematic. Less problematic than freaking out about it. Four beers, FWIW.
We got close with a lazy campaign that matched spending. That means we reject that shit. We, as in a vast majority of most people, even the apathetic. That needs to be appreciated and savored. All we have to do is keep up the pressure and the funding, and find candidates that only mildly suck, and we can win this by attrition, if nothing else, and we (at least those of us who have no other reason to quake in fear, those of us unaffected unless we go full totalitarianism, but for those of us who are NOT in my position, I stand with you, because there but for the grace of god go I) can beat these fucks.
We almost won in a place where it was hopeless. That's huge.
I have a lot of hope, but I don't have much to lose. I will lose if we lose. Keep fighting. So will I.
posted by saysthis at 9:39 AM on June 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
As for bipartisanship, that's fine except that the so-called GOP moderates always, always, always, always cave when pressured by the wingnuts. One or two might be allowed to cast a symbolic No that won't affect an outcome, or vote Yes in committee and No on a confirmation where only the former vote is meaningful, but Having Deep Concerns [tm J. McCain] means jack shit if you never ever defect for real.
Susan Collins has a conscience. She keeps it safe in a jar and waters it twice a week.
posted by delfin at 9:40 AM on June 21, 2017 [25 favorites]
Susan Collins has a conscience. She keeps it safe in a jar and waters it twice a week.
posted by delfin at 9:40 AM on June 21, 2017 [25 favorites]
"Mean" is not tough or resolute or realistic.
Mean is small-spirited, stingy, selfish, exclusive.
It is literally the opposite of generous, liberal, inclusive.
You can be generous, liberal, and inclusive AND tough, resolute, and realistic.
Don't be mean. We don't have to be mean.
Also mean people don't have any fun. "You got to have fun while you’re fightin’ for freedom, ’cause you don’t always win." -- Molly Ivins
posted by Herodios at 9:43 AM on June 21, 2017 [22 favorites]
Mean is small-spirited, stingy, selfish, exclusive.
It is literally the opposite of generous, liberal, inclusive.
You can be generous, liberal, and inclusive AND tough, resolute, and realistic.
Don't be mean. We don't have to be mean.
Also mean people don't have any fun. "You got to have fun while you’re fightin’ for freedom, ’cause you don’t always win." -- Molly Ivins
posted by Herodios at 9:43 AM on June 21, 2017 [22 favorites]
> >> Is civility a greater value than life and death and war and human rights?
> I feel like this author doesn't understand that without the veneer of civility and "we're all in this together"
The "bipartisanship" the author is talking about is the treatment of both sides of a political debate as equals, not the treatment of the other side as human beings. Calling out bullshitters as bullshitters does not create conditions for a civil war -- dehumanizing the populace represented by those bullshitters does. I can treat rural Kansans and suburban Georgians as my fellow Americans, even as I believe many of them are stupidly wrong about policy. That's what the author is talking about. Taking a single quote out of context to make it look like a call to stop caring about anyone who votes Republican is not going to make for a useful dialogue.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:44 AM on June 21, 2017 [15 favorites]
> I feel like this author doesn't understand that without the veneer of civility and "we're all in this together"
The "bipartisanship" the author is talking about is the treatment of both sides of a political debate as equals, not the treatment of the other side as human beings. Calling out bullshitters as bullshitters does not create conditions for a civil war -- dehumanizing the populace represented by those bullshitters does. I can treat rural Kansans and suburban Georgians as my fellow Americans, even as I believe many of them are stupidly wrong about policy. That's what the author is talking about. Taking a single quote out of context to make it look like a call to stop caring about anyone who votes Republican is not going to make for a useful dialogue.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:44 AM on June 21, 2017 [15 favorites]
Call it what you will, if you don't like "mean", try "vicious", try "aggressive", try "attacking the motherfuckers 24/7 holding nothing back".
But if we aren't relentlessly attacking the motherfuckers 24/7 then we're going to lose in 2018.
posted by sotonohito at 9:47 AM on June 21, 2017 [14 favorites]
But if we aren't relentlessly attacking the motherfuckers 24/7 then we're going to lose in 2018.
posted by sotonohito at 9:47 AM on June 21, 2017 [14 favorites]
They're kicking the shit out of us, and anytime a leftist tries to fight back suddenly every Democrat in the universe is stumbling over themselves to denounce that leftist and declare that they, bipartisan nice guys that they are, would never ever condone meanness.
There's a reason for that. It's still not entirely clear that being overtly rude and sexist is a positive trait in a candidate running for office, or will increase public approval for office holders. Trump is an outlier, not the norm, and Clinton was not a normal candidate either. Lessons on voter distaste for rudeness, especially towards women, which have been drilled into Democrats through prior victories and failures.
Two of the most notable:
Clayton Williams refused to shake Ann Richards' hand during a 1990 debate for the Texas governorship. He also made a rape joke. And attacked Richards for being an alcoholic. He lost. When polled, voters cited those three things as reasons why.
Geraldine Ferraro (this is way back in 1984!) was asked at a campaign stop in Mississippi whether she could bake blueberry muffins by state Agriculture Commissioner Jim Buck Ross. Her response was "Sure! Can you?" It cost her votes from conservative Southerners. It wasn't just that she had snarked back at Ross, but that he was a 70 year old man, and a woman being disrespectful to an elderly man in public simply Wasn't Done. Had a younger man replied that way to Ross, no one would have blinked.
These are two of dozens of examples we could dig up and examine from throughout the last 50 years.
The jury is still out on whether negative political campaigns work. So Democrats hedge their bets -- a strategy they may very well have to unlearn now.
posted by zarq at 9:48 AM on June 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
There's a reason for that. It's still not entirely clear that being overtly rude and sexist is a positive trait in a candidate running for office, or will increase public approval for office holders. Trump is an outlier, not the norm, and Clinton was not a normal candidate either. Lessons on voter distaste for rudeness, especially towards women, which have been drilled into Democrats through prior victories and failures.
Two of the most notable:
Clayton Williams refused to shake Ann Richards' hand during a 1990 debate for the Texas governorship. He also made a rape joke. And attacked Richards for being an alcoholic. He lost. When polled, voters cited those three things as reasons why.
Geraldine Ferraro (this is way back in 1984!) was asked at a campaign stop in Mississippi whether she could bake blueberry muffins by state Agriculture Commissioner Jim Buck Ross. Her response was "Sure! Can you?" It cost her votes from conservative Southerners. It wasn't just that she had snarked back at Ross, but that he was a 70 year old man, and a woman being disrespectful to an elderly man in public simply Wasn't Done. Had a younger man replied that way to Ross, no one would have blinked.
These are two of dozens of examples we could dig up and examine from throughout the last 50 years.
The jury is still out on whether negative political campaigns work. So Democrats hedge their bets -- a strategy they may very well have to unlearn now.
posted by zarq at 9:48 AM on June 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
"Hey, hey, hey, hey, now. Don't be mean; we don't have to be mean, cuz, remember, no matter where you go—there you are."
Folks upstream mentioned framing, I really think that's the solution. It's negative but it's not evil.
It's worth revisiting this article from George Lakoff.
Folks upstream mentioned framing, I really think that's the solution. It's negative but it's not evil.
It's worth revisiting this article from George Lakoff.
While Lakoff is an unabashed Berkeley progressive, he said Democrats are decades behind in understanding how to frame issues in a way that can reach swing voters.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:50 AM on June 21, 2017 [50 favorites]
“Protection is part of the progressive moral system, but it has not been celebrated enough,” Lakoff writes in Don’t Think of an Elephant. For example, progressives should start calling federal regulations “protections.” If they start re-framing Trump’s promise as “getting rid of two-thirds of federal protections” — and spell out what some of those environmental and health and water quality “protections” are — there might be less support for repealing federal regulations, Lakoff said.
“Every progressive knows that regulations are protections, but they don’t say it,” he added. Similarly, “taxes” are actually “investments in public resources.” Government investment pays for the infrastructure on which private industry and everything else is built, Lakoff said. “Roads, bridges, public education, national banks, the patent office, the judicial system, interstate commerce, basic science for drug development — all of that is financed by government investments.” Yet Democrats allow Republicans to frame the debate in terms of tax “relief,” he said.
A good breakdown of GA-06 and other specials by Cook Political Report. The closing:
Although it's true Democrats have agonizingly yet to capture a red district, they have outperformed their "generic" share of the vote significantly in every contest. Measured against the Cook Political Report's Partisan Voter Index (PVI), Democrats have outperformed the partisan lean of their districts by an average of eight points in the past five elections.posted by chris24 at 9:50 AM on June 21, 2017 [22 favorites]
If Democrats were to outperform their "generic" share by eight points across the board in November 2018, they would pick up 80 seats. Of course, that won't happen because Republican incumbents will be tougher to dislodge than special election nominees. But these results fit a pattern that should still worry GOP incumbents everywhere, regardless of Trump's national approval rating and the outcome of the healthcare debate in Congress.
Put another way, Democratic candidates in these elections have won an average of 68 percent of the votes Hillary Clinton won in their districts, while Republican candidates have won an average of 54 percent of Trump's votes. That's an enthusiasm gap that big enough to gravely imperil the Republican majority next November—even if it didn't show up in "the special election to end all special elections."
Mean is not hte same as lying.
I don't want us to lie. I just want us to give up this Marquess of Queensberry shit the Democrats seem so addicted to and fight back for real.
They're kicking the shit out of us, and anytime a leftist tries to fight back suddenly every Democrat in the universe is stumbling over themselves to denounce that leftist and declare that they, bipartisan nice guys that they are, would never ever condone meanness.
The mean/civil debate would probably advanced with specific examples; that would pre-empt the "do you really mean we should lie to people?" sort of question.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 9:53 AM on June 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
I don't want us to lie. I just want us to give up this Marquess of Queensberry shit the Democrats seem so addicted to and fight back for real.
They're kicking the shit out of us, and anytime a leftist tries to fight back suddenly every Democrat in the universe is stumbling over themselves to denounce that leftist and declare that they, bipartisan nice guys that they are, would never ever condone meanness.
The mean/civil debate would probably advanced with specific examples; that would pre-empt the "do you really mean we should lie to people?" sort of question.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 9:53 AM on June 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm not sure how "fight back" and "be overtly rude and sexist" are equivalent. At all.
posted by delfin at 9:55 AM on June 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by delfin at 9:55 AM on June 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
Being aggressive is good. Not taking any shit is good. But be careful to clarify the message, clarify the contours of what's actually happening in the American middle-class.
I believe the biggest threat to our nation is corruption. Trump, and the complicit wing of the Republican party, represent the spirit of pure corruption let loose at the center of our institutions. Emoluments and alternative facts? That is financial and intellectual corruption. As a metaphor for how campaigns are run, there is no practical way to eliminate corruption with more corruption.
posted by kuatto at 9:56 AM on June 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
I believe the biggest threat to our nation is corruption. Trump, and the complicit wing of the Republican party, represent the spirit of pure corruption let loose at the center of our institutions. Emoluments and alternative facts? That is financial and intellectual corruption. As a metaphor for how campaigns are run, there is no practical way to eliminate corruption with more corruption.
posted by kuatto at 9:56 AM on June 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
I think we should be mean. But I'm using "mean" in the sense it's usually used against women -- not bending over backward or walking on eggshells to protect the feelings and integrity of people (men) who are hurting you.
We don't need to lie, we don't need to call people names, we don't need to turn to racism/sexism/the carceral system. We just need to be ok with being called bitches. (and they're going to call us bitches no matter what we do, so we might as well do what it takes to win)
posted by melissasaurus at 9:56 AM on June 21, 2017 [31 favorites]
We don't need to lie, we don't need to call people names, we don't need to turn to racism/sexism/the carceral system. We just need to be ok with being called bitches. (and they're going to call us bitches no matter what we do, so we might as well do what it takes to win)
posted by melissasaurus at 9:56 AM on June 21, 2017 [31 favorites]
I see plenty of Democrats who are forceful, resolute and principled, with clearly articulated values and ideologies. They are fighting. They don't get much press when they do, because they are often female, and/or brown. Ted Lieu is not getting censured from his party by having a hilarious, snarky, biting Twitter. I don't know where this idea that present-day Democrats are sitting around drinking our tea with lifted pinky-fingers as if nothing amiss is happening is coming from.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:57 AM on June 21, 2017 [39 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:57 AM on June 21, 2017 [39 favorites]
[I feel like the "democrats should be nice/mean" debate is rapidly approaching "relitigating the primaries" levels of pointlessness in terms of SNR.]
posted by jammer at 9:58 AM on June 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by jammer at 9:58 AM on June 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
The kind of negative campaigning I'm hoping for from Democrats is the kind that treats Republican voters as good-faith participants in the political process who've been sold a bill of goods by the party they support. This may not be true -- many of them may be not just misinformed or hoodwinked but actively selfish and willfully ignorant -- but the message needs to be about the broken promises of supply-side economics, the failures of for-profit health insurance, the and the grievous errors of prominent Republicans who have embraced these and other pillars of GOP ideology. Sam Brownback's disaster in Kansas needs to be front-and-center, not just in Kansas, but anywhere that governors are proposing massive tax and public services cuts. Donald Trump's phony interventions in saving a couple hundred American jobs need to be contextualized against many of those same jobs leaving months later and the larger picture of hundreds of thousands of jobs disappearing because of the GOP's embrace of outsourcing, cost-cutting, and union-busting.
That's the kind of meanness I'm talking about. It's not dirty tricks to evaluate the performance of the people that these voters chose to represent them and point out where those policies have failed. Highlighting it won't convert any of the dead-enders, but it could help get some of the Obama->Trump vote back without compromising any gains with other core Democratic constituencies.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:59 AM on June 21, 2017 [15 favorites]
That's the kind of meanness I'm talking about. It's not dirty tricks to evaluate the performance of the people that these voters chose to represent them and point out where those policies have failed. Highlighting it won't convert any of the dead-enders, but it could help get some of the Obama->Trump vote back without compromising any gains with other core Democratic constituencies.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:59 AM on June 21, 2017 [15 favorites]
Mod note: PSA, please don't use the mod-style square brackets; it creates confusion. Just go ahead and make your suggestion in regular type.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 10:00 AM on June 21, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 10:00 AM on June 21, 2017 [20 favorites]
Just go ahead and make your suggestion in regular type.
Fair point. To restate without edit window abuse in case mods want to delete my original:
I feel like the "democrats should be nice/mean" debate is rapidly approaching "relitigating the primaries" levels of pointlessness in terms of SNR.
posted by jammer at 10:03 AM on June 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Fair point. To restate without edit window abuse in case mods want to delete my original:
I feel like the "democrats should be nice/mean" debate is rapidly approaching "relitigating the primaries" levels of pointlessness in terms of SNR.
posted by jammer at 10:03 AM on June 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Far from played out, I feel like the nice/mean debate has barely gotten off the ground because people are still figuring out exactly what alternative behaviors are being considered under the exceedingly broad labels of "nice" and "mean". At the risk of repeating myself, I think the discussion will be more productive if people talk about the specific behaviors they're interested in.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 10:03 AM on June 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 10:03 AM on June 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
Re: messaging. Truly, it was a stroke of genius for Republicans to decide on "patient-centered" as a euphemism for "profit-centered death systems" in the discourse surrounding the AHCA.
Republicans: profit-centered :: Democrats: profit-progressives
No, that feels off-putting.
How about
"Republicans: profit-centered :: Democrats: people-centered"
or
"Republicans: profit-first:: Democrats: people-first"
or
"Republicans: people-last :: Democrats: people-first"
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:05 AM on June 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Republicans: profit-centered :: Democrats: profit-progressives
No, that feels off-putting.
How about
"Republicans: profit-centered :: Democrats: people-centered"
or
"Republicans: profit-first:: Democrats: people-first"
or
"Republicans: people-last :: Democrats: people-first"
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:05 AM on June 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Far from played out, I feel like the nice/mean debate has barely gotten off the ground...
This is just a suggestion, but perhaps if people want to have it, there may be a better venue for it? I may be the only one, but I feel like these mega-threads do best when extended debates about particular topics get spun off elsewhere.
Otherwise they blow up post counts and hurt those of us who want to get general news/updates without reading a lot of back and forth arguing.
I'll stop there, lest it sound too much like I'm thread-policing.
posted by jammer at 10:08 AM on June 21, 2017 [8 favorites]
This is just a suggestion, but perhaps if people want to have it, there may be a better venue for it? I may be the only one, but I feel like these mega-threads do best when extended debates about particular topics get spun off elsewhere.
Otherwise they blow up post counts and hurt those of us who want to get general news/updates without reading a lot of back and forth arguing.
I'll stop there, lest it sound too much like I'm thread-policing.
posted by jammer at 10:08 AM on June 21, 2017 [8 favorites]
Signing on with the Republicans won't win them one Republican vote
You know who would disagree with you? Joe Donnelly, Heidi Heitkamp, Claire McCaskill, Jon Tester, Joe Lieberman and Joe Manchin. They won against Republican candidates (often repeatedly) because they caucused with the Republicans on most issues. Tester, Heitkamp and Manchin might as well declare themselves Republicans at this point.
I am not proposing that Democrats become those assholes. Those are extreme examples. But yes, working together with Republicans on selected issues (at this point, opposing Trump could conceivably unite them) may very well have an effect in the Senate. Repeating myself here: if legislation is absolutely, positively going to pass if every Democrat votes against it and all Republicans vote for it then the only way to stop said bill is to rope in on-the-fence Republicans. The Dems moral obligation is to do everything they can.
nor will it prevent Republicans from demonizing them as the most leftist liberal ever.
Yes. So? Who gives a shit?
Appeasement does not work. It only depresses Democratic enthusiasm.
This really doesn't have anything to do with what I was talking about, but Democrats aren't a monolith. We never were. There are Democratic constituencies throughout the country who agree with Republicans on certain issues.
posted by zarq at 10:08 AM on June 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
You know who would disagree with you? Joe Donnelly, Heidi Heitkamp, Claire McCaskill, Jon Tester, Joe Lieberman and Joe Manchin. They won against Republican candidates (often repeatedly) because they caucused with the Republicans on most issues. Tester, Heitkamp and Manchin might as well declare themselves Republicans at this point.
I am not proposing that Democrats become those assholes. Those are extreme examples. But yes, working together with Republicans on selected issues (at this point, opposing Trump could conceivably unite them) may very well have an effect in the Senate. Repeating myself here: if legislation is absolutely, positively going to pass if every Democrat votes against it and all Republicans vote for it then the only way to stop said bill is to rope in on-the-fence Republicans. The Dems moral obligation is to do everything they can.
nor will it prevent Republicans from demonizing them as the most leftist liberal ever.
Yes. So? Who gives a shit?
Appeasement does not work. It only depresses Democratic enthusiasm.
This really doesn't have anything to do with what I was talking about, but Democrats aren't a monolith. We never were. There are Democratic constituencies throughout the country who agree with Republicans on certain issues.
posted by zarq at 10:08 AM on June 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
I want to win. And I will do whatever it takes to win. Will you?
Sorry, No. I'm all for fighting fire with fire up to a point, but foregoing ethics, propping up a media figurehead instead of a competent civil servant, being obstructionist to the point of destroying the system, and giving over civility in our civilization are not on the table for me.
I want the leaders I vote for to represent my values, the things i work for every day as i act on my beliefs as a citizen. I will fight against corruption, i will fight to have good people in office at every level of government I can vote for, but I sure as hell won't suffer fools simply because they have a (D) after their name.
The lens of history makes clear that this country has faced bigger challenges than the ones we presently face and leaders with courage, conviction and ability have stepped forward and have gotten the job done.
posted by OHenryPacey at 10:13 AM on June 21, 2017 [18 favorites]
But if we aren't relentlessly attacking the motherfuckers 24/7 then we're going to lose in 2018.
In a democracy you win by persuading voters, not by attacking motherfuckers. The motherfuckers need to be separated from their motherfucking followers if anti-motherfuckerism is to succeed. Simply attacking motherfuckers tends to drive the motherfucker's motherfucking followers back to the motherfuckers, in tribal solidarity.
It's more productive -- 'though harder and less cathartic -- to continually demonstrate in motherfucking understandable terms, over and over again that the motherfuckers' plans are bad and harmful for the motherfucking motherfuckers motherfucking followers.
You might also want to take a page from the late ambassador Richard Holbrooke. In negotiations and in press interviews he would not permit inaccurate [by his lights] framing of an issue. I recall the late Erwin Knoll of The Progressive magazine had a similar style.
Attack bad ideas, harmful policies, and inconsistent positions, not people. People can change.
PS: Run for dog-catcher, school-board, city council, state rep, etc. and do this at every level. Non-motherfuckerism must be part of the background, foreground, conversation, and in the transcript at every level in divers places, n'shit.
posted by Herodios at 10:13 AM on June 21, 2017 [20 favorites]
In a democracy you win by persuading voters, not by attacking motherfuckers. The motherfuckers need to be separated from their motherfucking followers if anti-motherfuckerism is to succeed. Simply attacking motherfuckers tends to drive the motherfucker's motherfucking followers back to the motherfuckers, in tribal solidarity.
It's more productive -- 'though harder and less cathartic -- to continually demonstrate in motherfucking understandable terms, over and over again that the motherfuckers' plans are bad and harmful for the motherfucking motherfuckers motherfucking followers.
You might also want to take a page from the late ambassador Richard Holbrooke. In negotiations and in press interviews he would not permit inaccurate [by his lights] framing of an issue. I recall the late Erwin Knoll of The Progressive magazine had a similar style.
Attack bad ideas, harmful policies, and inconsistent positions, not people. People can change.
PS: Run for dog-catcher, school-board, city council, state rep, etc. and do this at every level. Non-motherfuckerism must be part of the background, foreground, conversation, and in the transcript at every level in divers places, n'shit.
posted by Herodios at 10:13 AM on June 21, 2017 [20 favorites]
I'm not sure how "fight back" and "be overtly rude and sexist" are equivalent. At all.
Well, I was responding to the comment that was made, not creating a strawman about the value of fighting back at all.
Among other things, the argument made was that Clinton should have "fought as mean, as vicious, and as ugly as Trump did." Not merely that she or the Democrats should fight back.
posted by zarq at 10:13 AM on June 21, 2017
Well, I was responding to the comment that was made, not creating a strawman about the value of fighting back at all.
Among other things, the argument made was that Clinton should have "fought as mean, as vicious, and as ugly as Trump did." Not merely that she or the Democrats should fight back.
posted by zarq at 10:13 AM on June 21, 2017
When a white person comes to a black or brown space as a campaign stop … hell yes they need to do the work! They have to convince folks that they aren't taking the vote for granted, that they will truly work to be a representative of that constituency and actively work for the critical causes and issues.
Of course, and as zachlipton says, this GA-06 young Muslim is entitled to his feelings. And it's a problem if Ossoff didn't frame/handle the visit right. I have no idea if Ossoff has ever done/said the right things with regards to standing up for equality and that group's concerns. That all matters, a lot.
But I am kinda skeptical of larger meaning when this is tweet one & two:
But it's a damned quick handpress appearance for the already excited less than a hundred hours before the election and where voting has already been underway by absentee for weeks. Of course it's quick and light on substance.
Nobody's getting converted in the waning hours. There's not time. That's not an excuse for failing sooner, but if this is the hill that a candidate has to cross for some voter? Giving them detailed time & policy talk in the final moments? Then nobody's gonna ever make that voter happy. They are no different at that point than the fellow who talks nonsense about Americans making themselves captive by being too free and not needing politics or whatever other blah blah rationalization they have for refusing to accept reality. This reality was the election is four nights of sleep away from happening and in 120 hours one of two people are gonna win. This one showed the fuck up to see the members of your group who were excited to see him.
Drink the water or not, bub, but at this point in GA-06 you had a billion opportunities to know what Ossoff's positions were and what the other choice looked like. That's not taking a PoC vote for granted or saying they have to fall in line. It's taking reality and the relentless progress of the clock at their word. Maybe or probably Ossoff fucked up with Muslim voters in the months before that, but as this is framed it sounds like the person angry that they didn't get a detailed conversation about the new book from the author at a busy book signing.
posted by phearlez at 10:15 AM on June 21, 2017 [27 favorites]
Of course, and as zachlipton says, this GA-06 young Muslim is entitled to his feelings. And it's a problem if Ossoff didn't frame/handle the visit right. I have no idea if Ossoff has ever done/said the right things with regards to standing up for equality and that group's concerns. That all matters, a lot.
But I am kinda skeptical of larger meaning when this is tweet one & two:
Jon Ossoff came to my mosque Friday. He didnt try to win our vote, he just had a professional camera crew taking pics of him with hijabis.Well, let's rephrase tweet one:
Ossoff didn't really need to promise anything or work for our vote bc all the petty bourgeois Brown Muslim Americans were fawning over him.
Jon Ossoff came to my mosque 96 hours before the election. He didnt try to win our vote, he just had a professional camera crew taking pics of him with hijabis.and tweet two?
Ossoff didn't spend any time giving a speech, instead telling everyone there was a limited amount of time and the many people excited to see him and wanting pictures should make sure as many of them could be accommodated as possible before he had to go.I don't know the reality leading up to this or Ossoff's positions (because I ain't in GA-06 and from 200 miles away all I needed to know as that he was less awful that Handel) and maybe he fucked up 9 ways to sunday. And white dude politicians need to do more than be not-R and shouldn't take votes from PoC for granted.
But it's a damned quick handpress appearance for the already excited less than a hundred hours before the election and where voting has already been underway by absentee for weeks. Of course it's quick and light on substance.
Nobody's getting converted in the waning hours. There's not time. That's not an excuse for failing sooner, but if this is the hill that a candidate has to cross for some voter? Giving them detailed time & policy talk in the final moments? Then nobody's gonna ever make that voter happy. They are no different at that point than the fellow who talks nonsense about Americans making themselves captive by being too free and not needing politics or whatever other blah blah rationalization they have for refusing to accept reality. This reality was the election is four nights of sleep away from happening and in 120 hours one of two people are gonna win. This one showed the fuck up to see the members of your group who were excited to see him.
Drink the water or not, bub, but at this point in GA-06 you had a billion opportunities to know what Ossoff's positions were and what the other choice looked like. That's not taking a PoC vote for granted or saying they have to fall in line. It's taking reality and the relentless progress of the clock at their word. Maybe or probably Ossoff fucked up with Muslim voters in the months before that, but as this is framed it sounds like the person angry that they didn't get a detailed conversation about the new book from the author at a busy book signing.
posted by phearlez at 10:15 AM on June 21, 2017 [27 favorites]
The name Molly Ivins came up. She could be civil, charming and quite approachable in her writing. She used facts, humor, nicknames (affectionate or not) and satire extremely effectively. She could also be stone cold mean and angry when the target was deserving, and did not shy away from calling an asshole an asshole. We need about a hundred more Molly Ivinses.
National Treasure Charles Pierce is our closest heir apparent. If someone would please send us a Charlie Brooker or ten, we need those too.
posted by delfin at 10:19 AM on June 21, 2017 [25 favorites]
National Treasure Charles Pierce is our closest heir apparent. If someone would please send us a Charlie Brooker or ten, we need those too.
posted by delfin at 10:19 AM on June 21, 2017 [25 favorites]
She could also be stone cold mean and angry when the target was deserving, and did not shy away from calling an asshole an asshole.
"If his IQ were any lower, they'd have to water him twice a day." :D
We need about a hundred more Molly Ivinses.
Agreed.
posted by zarq at 10:23 AM on June 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
"If his IQ were any lower, they'd have to water him twice a day." :D
We need about a hundred more Molly Ivinses.
Agreed.
posted by zarq at 10:23 AM on June 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
> Honestly I have no ethical problem with fighting dirty but the vast majority of Clinton's ads were attacks on Trump the person, rather than policy grounds. Didn't work.
That it didn't work doesn't mean that it wasn't the right move. Trump was almost totally immune to attacks on policy grounds. Many times during the campaign he simply changed his policy positions to suit whatever the mood of the electorate was. This used to be called "flip-flopping" back in the day, but his stranglehold on the media narrative allowed him to skate on it. We can't properly evaluate the counterfactual of Hillary doing a majority issues-focused campaign against Trump, but I see no reason to believe it would have changed the outcome.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:25 AM on June 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
That it didn't work doesn't mean that it wasn't the right move. Trump was almost totally immune to attacks on policy grounds. Many times during the campaign he simply changed his policy positions to suit whatever the mood of the electorate was. This used to be called "flip-flopping" back in the day, but his stranglehold on the media narrative allowed him to skate on it. We can't properly evaluate the counterfactual of Hillary doing a majority issues-focused campaign against Trump, but I see no reason to believe it would have changed the outcome.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:25 AM on June 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
NPR had a few interesting segments yesterday afternoon, and the transcripts are up now:
Congress Has A Rich History Of Legislating In Secrecy
Who Are The Lawyers Investigating Russia's Meddling In U.S. Elections? President Trump has brought on a team of outside lawyers to help him navigate congressional investigations and the one being led by special counsel Robert Mueller. We look at who is on the team.
Congress Has A Rich History Of Legislating In Secrecy
JULIAN ZELIZER (Princeton University historian): When the Senate first met, there was an assumption that they would be a closed body and that they would meet in secret. And we've had a battle really since the founding through today of the tradeoff between that secrecy that some people think is required for good governing and transparency and accountability which many people think is equally important for our democracy to work.A History Of The Changes In Press Briefings
KELLY MCEVERS (NPR host): Were people OK with the Senate being a closed body, though, in a certain way over periods of time?
ZELIZER: Well, we don't really have great - we have no popular opinion polls until the 1930s and '40s. And in the period we do have those - the 1950s and '60s, which is really the high point I think of a lot of this secrecy in the middle of the Cold War and when the committees in both the Senate and House were very strong and deliberated on their own - there wasn't a huge outcry against it. People certainly registered pretty high levels of trust in Congress certainly by the late '60s and early '70s.
MCEVERS: Could you give us an example of a major piece of legislation that was drafted during this time in secrecy without any public debate?
ZELIZER: Well, the Medicare legislation was passed in 1965. It's the first major health care program that we have. The heart of legislation was worked out in the House in the ways and means committee where the chairman, Wilbur Mills, a Democrat from Arkansas, basically took an administration proposal that had been the subject of hearings, took it behind closed doors and totally transformed the bill, turning it into what we have today. And even Lyndon Johnson didn't know exactly what was going on until one of his staffers who was in the room reported to him what the House had actually done to it. And the bill is considered really watershed legislation.
RON ELVING (NPR senior editor and correspondent): Ideally they should be informing the general public eager for information. They want to know how their government works, what it's doing. And these briefings can serve that function much of the time for much of the public. But let's face it. They also exist as a kind of collective for the media and for the White House itself. They serve the needs of the news organizations that send reporters to cover them, and that's especially true for the cable TV operations that carry them live as a feature of their daily programming.WTF, Audie? Were you just trying to prompt Ron to clarify the problem with off-the-record updates?
And when you get over to the White House, well, even the most media-averse presidents - think Richard Nixon, for example - have come around to seeing that briefings at the White House are a marvelous way to reach the public.
AUDIE CORNISH (NPR host): You mention Nixon, but how far back can we go in terms of these briefings?
ELVING: Well, the first reporters started going to the White House on a daily basis in the 1890s. Woodrow Wilson had the first formal press conference. Both Teddy Roosevelt and Franklin Roosevelt liked to have lots of informal off-the-record sessions with reporters. And the first...
CORNISH: So off the record is not a terrible thing.
ELVING: Well, off the record is an old thing. It has its uses. But if it's the only way you get to talk to the president, as it often has been, that's certainly not a good thing for the public.
Who Are The Lawyers Investigating Russia's Meddling In U.S. Elections? President Trump has brought on a team of outside lawyers to help him navigate congressional investigations and the one being led by special counsel Robert Mueller. We look at who is on the team.
- Marc Kasowitz, President Trump's personal lawyer, has represented Trump and his businesses for 15 years. On the day of Comey's testimony, he read from a statement and took no questions: "The president feels completely vindicated and is eager to continue moving forward." He hasn't made any public remarks since. He has represented Trump on real estate transactions, libel cases and the Trump University fraud lawsuit settled late last year for $25 million. But perhaps his highest-profile case was in the 1990s, when Kasowitz represented Liggett, the smallest of the big tobacco companies that broke with the industry and began settling lawsuits.
- Jay Sekulow is now the public face of President Trump's legal team. His specialty is First Amendment religious liberty cases. He's argued 12 cases before the U.S. Supreme Court. His biggest was in 1987, in a case where he represented Jews for Jesus, who wanted to pass out literature, against the Los Angeles Airport, who didn't want them to distribute the material. In the 1990s, he founded the American Center for Law and Justice with evangelical minister Pat Robertson. Not only does ACLJ pursue religious liberty cases, it fought the building of a mosque near Ground Zero and even has a call-in show that airs on hundreds of stations nationwide.
- Kasowitz just brought on another lawyer, John Dowd. He's best-known for the Dowd Report, which made the case for Pete Rose's lifetime ban from baseball for gambling on the game. But more to the point, Dowd is a seasoned Washington hand who represented key players in both the Keating Five and Iran-Contra scandals, experience that would be quite valuable if the president is, in fact, being investigated for obstruction of justice by the special counsel.
Trump was almost totally immune to attacks on policy grounds. Many times during the campaign he simply changed his policy positions to suit whatever the mood of the electorate was. This used to be called "flip-flopping" back in the day, but his stranglehold on the media narrative allowed him to skate on it.
I never understood why Trump wasn't constantly hit with ads that just said "he'll say whatever it takes to get your vote even if it's different from what he said yesterday." Video clips were plentiful.
Maybe that wasn't gonna switch any votes to HRC, who had been part of a 30 year smear campaign about her honesty, but grossing people out about their party's candidate so they just stay home is a time honored tactic as well.
Then again I never understood why there weren't endless ads with "Like being able to keep your kid on your health insurance till age 25? Thank the Affordable Care Act" and a bit from pols who voted for it now seeking reelection. So my confusion knows no limits I guess.
posted by phearlez at 10:31 AM on June 21, 2017 [17 favorites]
I never understood why Trump wasn't constantly hit with ads that just said "he'll say whatever it takes to get your vote even if it's different from what he said yesterday." Video clips were plentiful.
Maybe that wasn't gonna switch any votes to HRC, who had been part of a 30 year smear campaign about her honesty, but grossing people out about their party's candidate so they just stay home is a time honored tactic as well.
Then again I never understood why there weren't endless ads with "Like being able to keep your kid on your health insurance till age 25? Thank the Affordable Care Act" and a bit from pols who voted for it now seeking reelection. So my confusion knows no limits I guess.
posted by phearlez at 10:31 AM on June 21, 2017 [17 favorites]
David Brooks latest drivel came up in the last thread, but I missed that he said this:
And yet it has to be confessed that, at least so far, the Whitewater scandal was far more substantive than the Russia-collusion scandal now gripping Washington.
Thanks for giving him the platform for these gems of wisdom New York Times!
posted by diogenes at 10:33 AM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
And yet it has to be confessed that, at least so far, the Whitewater scandal was far more substantive than the Russia-collusion scandal now gripping Washington.
Thanks for giving him the platform for these gems of wisdom New York Times!
posted by diogenes at 10:33 AM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Honestly I have no ethical problem with fighting dirty but the vast majority of Clinton's ads were attacks on Trump the person, rather than policy grounds. Didn't work.
On that note: The Week/Ryan Cooper—The big lesson of Ossoff's defeat is that Democrats must run on policy
Now, a decent bunch of that article really comes down to "Ossoff should have run on my policy," which is a very different matter. But as best I could tell from far away, GA-06, in the race that played out on people's TV screens and mailboxes, came down to a ton of attacks and very little actual policy. Clinton had, ahem, binders full of policy, and she rolled it out in her stump speech and during the debates, but the actual enduring messages that came through in 2016 were pretty much entirely personal attacks. Take a look at the Gallup word clouds. Trump's policies were both horrible and total scams, but you can't deny that they came through loud and clear. As for Clinton, it's just the word "tax" buried beneath "email" and "Benghazi."
One party just voted to take away health insurance from 23 million people, and the other one wants to stop it. This shouldn't be so hard.
posted by zachlipton at 10:33 AM on June 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
On that note: The Week/Ryan Cooper—The big lesson of Ossoff's defeat is that Democrats must run on policy
Now, a decent bunch of that article really comes down to "Ossoff should have run on my policy," which is a very different matter. But as best I could tell from far away, GA-06, in the race that played out on people's TV screens and mailboxes, came down to a ton of attacks and very little actual policy. Clinton had, ahem, binders full of policy, and she rolled it out in her stump speech and during the debates, but the actual enduring messages that came through in 2016 were pretty much entirely personal attacks. Take a look at the Gallup word clouds. Trump's policies were both horrible and total scams, but you can't deny that they came through loud and clear. As for Clinton, it's just the word "tax" buried beneath "email" and "Benghazi."
One party just voted to take away health insurance from 23 million people, and the other one wants to stop it. This shouldn't be so hard.
posted by zachlipton at 10:33 AM on June 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
A: "Your favorite candidate's a flip-flopper."
B: "Who cares, I like that guy! You see him with that coal miner's helmet on?"
vs.
A: "The candidate you don't like isn't perfect, but they're far better for the country than your candidate."
B: "Yeah? Then how come they said ice cream was their favorite dessert on Monday—only to turn around and say the Yankees were their favorite baseball team on Wednesday?"
I don't envy the people who run political campaigns at all.
posted by Rykey at 10:34 AM on June 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
B: "Who cares, I like that guy! You see him with that coal miner's helmet on?"
vs.
A: "The candidate you don't like isn't perfect, but they're far better for the country than your candidate."
B: "Yeah? Then how come they said ice cream was their favorite dessert on Monday—only to turn around and say the Yankees were their favorite baseball team on Wednesday?"
I don't envy the people who run political campaigns at all.
posted by Rykey at 10:34 AM on June 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
Whitewater scandal was far more substantive than the Russia-collusion scandal now gripping Washington.
That hit close. My fav uncle and aunti lost just about all they had in whitewater. Never got a dime back and passed away dead broke. For me it means something.
posted by shockingbluamp at 10:37 AM on June 21, 2017
That hit close. My fav uncle and aunti lost just about all they had in whitewater. Never got a dime back and passed away dead broke. For me it means something.
posted by shockingbluamp at 10:37 AM on June 21, 2017
Counterpoint: Barack Obama, who seems to have connected fine with voters, was a constitutional law professor at one of the most elite law schools in the country.
Who was also gregarious, could talk sports with ease and would drink a beer out of a can without a second thought. Same goes for Bill Clinton.
Most losing Dem candidates (and losing Repubs, btw) weren't at ease with regular folks and seemed to be forcing it when they tried. Even obviously-elite Trump is relaxed and friendly with the proles.
Most people do not cast their vote based on issues, facts, or, apparently, competence. Personality wins and loses elections more than anything else.
posted by rocket88 at 10:37 AM on June 21, 2017 [14 favorites]
Who was also gregarious, could talk sports with ease and would drink a beer out of a can without a second thought. Same goes for Bill Clinton.
Most losing Dem candidates (and losing Repubs, btw) weren't at ease with regular folks and seemed to be forcing it when they tried. Even obviously-elite Trump is relaxed and friendly with the proles.
Most people do not cast their vote based on issues, facts, or, apparently, competence. Personality wins and loses elections more than anything else.
posted by rocket88 at 10:37 AM on June 21, 2017 [14 favorites]
I never understood why Trump wasn't constantly hit with ads that just said "he'll say whatever it takes to get your vote even if it's different from what he said yesterday."
He was never going to change his position on being a racist shitbag. He was never going to change from being something that liberals despised. He was never NOT going to be a man running against a woman, and therefore was never going to lose his appeal to sexism.
Hypocrisy was never a deterrent for his voters. In fact, given that liberals actually cared about it, his hypocrisy was just another feature.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:38 AM on June 21, 2017 [20 favorites]
He was never going to change his position on being a racist shitbag. He was never going to change from being something that liberals despised. He was never NOT going to be a man running against a woman, and therefore was never going to lose his appeal to sexism.
Hypocrisy was never a deterrent for his voters. In fact, given that liberals actually cared about it, his hypocrisy was just another feature.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:38 AM on June 21, 2017 [20 favorites]
Signing on with the Republicans won't win them one Republican vote
You know who would disagree with you? Joe Donnelly, Heidi Heitkamp, Claire McCaskill, Jon Tester, Joe Lieberman and Joe Manchin.
The list of Democrats who thought they'd be helped by signing on with Republicans and then lost anyway is a little longer.
posted by LarsC at 10:39 AM on June 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
You know who would disagree with you? Joe Donnelly, Heidi Heitkamp, Claire McCaskill, Jon Tester, Joe Lieberman and Joe Manchin.
The list of Democrats who thought they'd be helped by signing on with Republicans and then lost anyway is a little longer.
posted by LarsC at 10:39 AM on June 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
They win by whipping up pogroms.
like, the pogroms take different forms, and the targets change, but that's how they win. With the emphasis on that word they. Because we want justice and equality where they want violence and inequality, their methods simply won't work for us.
Although it may be necessary at some point to purge fascists and their lapdogs and their patsies, that is not how we win.
We win by building social solidarity among oppressed people, by providing mutual material support to each other, and by training ourselves and our neighbors to listen to each other instead of to the gaslighting lies of the fascists and their patsies and their lapdogs. (what does a fascist patsy look like? what does a fascist lapdog looks like? They look like David Brooks begging for bipartisanship. They look like John McCain furrowing his brow with impotent concern. They look like Dianne Feinstein calling for civility and doing fuckall.)
here is how we win.
Our reach will exceed our grasp. Even so, even if we can't get the pie-in-the-sky stuff, that has to be our goal. The closer we get to our impossible targets, the more successful we will be.
This stuff is all as fully outside the standards of liberal civility as pogroms are, because liberal standards of civility are fucked — they're mostly about making the comfortable classes more comfortable. Liberal standards of political action present giving material support to the poor as déclassé, as "going low." This doesn't mean that it's really low, though. It's not low. It's ethical, far more ethical than liberal constructions of political civility are.
When they go low, we go revolutionary.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:41 AM on June 21, 2017 [68 favorites]
like, the pogroms take different forms, and the targets change, but that's how they win. With the emphasis on that word they. Because we want justice and equality where they want violence and inequality, their methods simply won't work for us.
Although it may be necessary at some point to purge fascists and their lapdogs and their patsies, that is not how we win.
We win by building social solidarity among oppressed people, by providing mutual material support to each other, and by training ourselves and our neighbors to listen to each other instead of to the gaslighting lies of the fascists and their patsies and their lapdogs. (what does a fascist patsy look like? what does a fascist lapdog looks like? They look like David Brooks begging for bipartisanship. They look like John McCain furrowing his brow with impotent concern. They look like Dianne Feinstein calling for civility and doing fuckall.)
here is how we win.
- put large numbers of permanent paid activists/cadre on the ground in every district in every state, primarily tasked with building the party rather than with winning any particular election. everyone aside from the cloistered rich should personally know at least one person whose livelihood depends upon the success of the Democratic Party (or of whichever organization is best at hijacking the Democratic Party name).
- Establish party-branded welfare measures so that everyone who's not rich has material evidence that the party is on their side. Free breakfast programs are a good start. party-branded meals on wheels services for the elderly, medical and dental care provided by the party, party support for actions to stop evictions, etc. shamelessly evade/exploit loopholes in whatever laws exist to prevent parties from turning themselves into this sort of mass political movement.
- Establish party support for frequent and rowdy mass action on the streets -- the party (or whoever's hijacking it) must both produce dissent through agitation and shape extant dissent into effective action. Play footsie with the idea of mass fiscal noncompliance -- organized movements to refuse to pay rents, mortgages, student loans, and other odious debts.
- in short, abandon the idea of the party as primarily investing in winning particular elections and embrace the idea of the party as a tool to produce direct mass political action outside of the frame of any particular election. Electoral gains will come as a side effect of mass political action that exceeds the bounds of electoral politics; by fetishizing particular elections, or electoral politics on the whole, the Democratic Party effectively depoliticizes itself, and thereby sets itself up to lose everywhere.
Our reach will exceed our grasp. Even so, even if we can't get the pie-in-the-sky stuff, that has to be our goal. The closer we get to our impossible targets, the more successful we will be.
This stuff is all as fully outside the standards of liberal civility as pogroms are, because liberal standards of civility are fucked — they're mostly about making the comfortable classes more comfortable. Liberal standards of political action present giving material support to the poor as déclassé, as "going low." This doesn't mean that it's really low, though. It's not low. It's ethical, far more ethical than liberal constructions of political civility are.
When they go low, we go revolutionary.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:41 AM on June 21, 2017 [68 favorites]
Hypocrisy was never a deterrent for his voters. In fact, given that liberals actually cared about it, his hypocrisy was just another feature.
They're not all one voter. Didn't have to convince them all or impact the ones who really wanted to stick it to the brown folk. Didn't need to get through to ones who will show up and punch the R button come hell or high water. Only needed to keep 100,000 of them home in the right states. Reporters have managed to find ones worried about their health care and ones pissed he hasn't done some things he said he would. If they can find em then they were out there.
This binary all/none outlook on elections is counter productive. Election season isn't one fight, it's thousands.
posted by phearlez at 10:43 AM on June 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
They're not all one voter. Didn't have to convince them all or impact the ones who really wanted to stick it to the brown folk. Didn't need to get through to ones who will show up and punch the R button come hell or high water. Only needed to keep 100,000 of them home in the right states. Reporters have managed to find ones worried about their health care and ones pissed he hasn't done some things he said he would. If they can find em then they were out there.
This binary all/none outlook on elections is counter productive. Election season isn't one fight, it's thousands.
posted by phearlez at 10:43 AM on June 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Motivating the people who aren't voting at all is going to be a far better fight than trying to sway the people who somehow looked at Trump and thought, in any capacity, that they could vote for him.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:46 AM on June 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:46 AM on June 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
> Motivating the people who aren't voting at all is going to be a far better fight than trying to sway the people who somehow looked at Trump and thought, in any capacity, that they could vote for him.
This is true, but there aren't 218 House votes in just the blue districts plus the non-Trumpy purple ones. We've got to put some wins on the board in areas where substantial numbers of people voted for him. They won't be voting against Hillary this time, at least.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:52 AM on June 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
This is true, but there aren't 218 House votes in just the blue districts plus the non-Trumpy purple ones. We've got to put some wins on the board in areas where substantial numbers of people voted for him. They won't be voting against Hillary this time, at least.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:52 AM on June 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
soren_lorensen:
I see plenty of Democrats who are forceful, resolute and principled, with clearly articulated values and ideologies. They are fighting. They don't get much press when they do, because they are often female, and/or brown. Ted Lieu is not getting censured from his party by having a hilarious, snarky, biting Twitter. I don't know where this idea that present-day Democrats are sitting around drinking our tea with lifted pinky-fingers as if nothing amiss is happening is coming from.
Sometimes I feel like the "Democrats just don't fight" narrative hasn't entirely updated with changes in the Age of Trump, and is still stuck in the Era of Bush (and, yes, Obama). And that there's a small amount of motivated reasoning behind seeing this this way -- not that it's totally wrong!
When when it comes to the need to appeal to far-leftist fence-sitters, I'm torn. On the one hand, I definitely wish there was more consistent conviction, not more looking-over-shoulders to see how it plays to the middle. On the other hand, a given potential voter not being pleased enough to vote thus far is an indicator (not proof!) of that person being, well, hard to please. Perhaps justifiably hard to please, if that's not a contradiction.
I guess the question comes down to, when is opposition really about the candidate (obvious example: Joe Lieberman)? And when is it about the voter (who might pride themselves on purity -- but more likely just feels ignored to an extent that regaining trust could involve considerable political cost)?
posted by InTheYear2017 at 10:53 AM on June 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
I see plenty of Democrats who are forceful, resolute and principled, with clearly articulated values and ideologies. They are fighting. They don't get much press when they do, because they are often female, and/or brown. Ted Lieu is not getting censured from his party by having a hilarious, snarky, biting Twitter. I don't know where this idea that present-day Democrats are sitting around drinking our tea with lifted pinky-fingers as if nothing amiss is happening is coming from.
Sometimes I feel like the "Democrats just don't fight" narrative hasn't entirely updated with changes in the Age of Trump, and is still stuck in the Era of Bush (and, yes, Obama). And that there's a small amount of motivated reasoning behind seeing this this way -- not that it's totally wrong!
When when it comes to the need to appeal to far-leftist fence-sitters, I'm torn. On the one hand, I definitely wish there was more consistent conviction, not more looking-over-shoulders to see how it plays to the middle. On the other hand, a given potential voter not being pleased enough to vote thus far is an indicator (not proof!) of that person being, well, hard to please. Perhaps justifiably hard to please, if that's not a contradiction.
I guess the question comes down to, when is opposition really about the candidate (obvious example: Joe Lieberman)? And when is it about the voter (who might pride themselves on purity -- but more likely just feels ignored to an extent that regaining trust could involve considerable political cost)?
posted by InTheYear2017 at 10:53 AM on June 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Motivating the people who aren't voting at all is going to be a far better fight than trying to sway the people who somehow looked at Trump and thought, in any capacity, that they could vote for him.
You understand that convincing the marginals that HRC was gross/awful/whatever and that they should just stay home or vote 3rd party was just shown to be a winning strategy, right? And, again: there's more than one fight to have.
posted by phearlez at 10:54 AM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
You understand that convincing the marginals that HRC was gross/awful/whatever and that they should just stay home or vote 3rd party was just shown to be a winning strategy, right? And, again: there's more than one fight to have.
posted by phearlez at 10:54 AM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Sarah Kendzior - Don’t focus on Georgia. Voter suppression is the issue
posted by gladly at 10:54 AM on June 21, 2017 [17 favorites]
Every burgeoning autocracy exploits pre-existing injustices. In the United States, race-based voter suppression has long been in play and Russian interference remains an active threat. Given the Trump administration’s unwillingness to confront white supremacists and its willingness to rewrite laws, one cannot assume that voter rights will not be removed for arbitrary and unfair reasons. Ensuring them requires constant vigilance.I would expect that as midterms get closer, this administration will double-down on efforts to restrict voting rights, especially if Sessions is still leading the DOJ. Even though it's based on lies, if the numbers start to scare Trump, his Voter Fraud Commission may provide the pretext for suppression tactics.
posted by gladly at 10:54 AM on June 21, 2017 [17 favorites]
One party just voted to take away health insurance from 23 million people, and the other one wants to stop it. This shouldn't be so hard.
It really shouldn't. But you're dealing with millions of others framing it as:
a) a refusal to give the slightest thought to those who are unfortunate, who should just Get A Job
b) reflexive Everything Government Does Is Wrong _even if they themselves will benefit_
c) okay, give me _my_ benefits but don't dare spend a dime of my taxes on the undeserving
d) how dare libtards and Kenyans force me to pay for insurance! Being uninsured and a destitute burden waiting to happen is FREEEEEEDOMMM
Some just don't understand. Others understand it all too well and just act from pure self-interest and contempt.
posted by delfin at 10:56 AM on June 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
It really shouldn't. But you're dealing with millions of others framing it as:
a) a refusal to give the slightest thought to those who are unfortunate, who should just Get A Job
b) reflexive Everything Government Does Is Wrong _even if they themselves will benefit_
c) okay, give me _my_ benefits but don't dare spend a dime of my taxes on the undeserving
d) how dare libtards and Kenyans force me to pay for insurance! Being uninsured and a destitute burden waiting to happen is FREEEEEEDOMMM
Some just don't understand. Others understand it all too well and just act from pure self-interest and contempt.
posted by delfin at 10:56 AM on June 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
Nabra Hassanen's memorial set on fire in Dupont Circle.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:57 AM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:57 AM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Charlie Pierce: The 'Moderate' Republican Senator Is a Dangerous Myth
posted by zombieflanders at 11:00 AM on June 21, 2017 [42 favorites]
Here's what I think will happen: McConnell will roll out his bill on Thursday. It will suck gallons of pondwater, as expected. It will be transparently a vehicle for shoving the nation's wealth upwards and only incidentally a bill concerning America's healthcare system, which it will make immeasurably worse for the great majority of the people in the country. All of these things will deepen the concern and more deeply trouble the "moderate" Republicans, who will be very public in their deep concern and in the depths of their troublehood. (The conservatives will look at it and think, well, this still has to go to conference and we can make it worse because the Republicans in the House are largely insane.) Susan Collins and Rob Portman will find themselves sniffing great bouquets of microphones over the following several days.I think a lot of this applies to "moderate" conservatives in the general populace as well, many of whom went along with the crazies and got quite incensed over death panels and the alleged creep of socialism and all the other wingnut myths that your average Fox News viewer spewed. Almost none of them have taken responsibility or showed any contrition for this over the last eight years.
At some point, the Congressional Budget Office will release its score for the bill, measuring precisely how many gallons of pondwater the bill sucks. Meanwhile, back on Capitol Hill, McConnell and his leadership team will paint pretty flowers on the uglier parts of the bill and, one by one, enough of the "moderates" will pronounce themselves satisfied that their deep concerns have been satisfied most deeply, and that they no longer are as deeply troubled as they once were. A couple of them—Collins, say, or Lisa Murkowski—even will be allowed to vote against the bill, provided the winning margin of 50-plus-Pence is in the bag.
The tell in all this is how many of the "moderate" Republicans are complaining about the "process" now, rather than pointing out how many gallons of pondwater the bill will suck. True, this bill should not pass because of the blatantly undemocratic way it has been conceived and constructed. But it also should not pass because it very likely will immiserate countless vulnerable Americans due to the gallons of pondwater that it will suck. If your basic concern about it is the former, then you're already lost.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:00 AM on June 21, 2017 [42 favorites]
They win by whipping up pogroms.
As someone who had several not-so-distant ancestors who died during pogroms, perhaps this is not a word to casually throw around if you don't have more of an understanding of what a fucking pogrom actually was.
posted by zarq at 11:03 AM on June 21, 2017 [24 favorites]
As someone who had several not-so-distant ancestors who died during pogroms, perhaps this is not a word to casually throw around if you don't have more of an understanding of what a fucking pogrom actually was.
posted by zarq at 11:03 AM on June 21, 2017 [24 favorites]
The name Molly Ivins came up.
True story: she inspired me to suggest my daughter's name when my ex and I were picking names.
I'm at a loss. I don't have any suggestions at this point except we have to keep on pushing back and trying to make gains somehow. I can't even stand to look sometimes we're on such a crap trajectory. I don't see any hope without some early end to the admin because institutional change can be hard to reverse once it gains momentum and they're setting the direction for the future right now.
posted by saulgoodman at 11:06 AM on June 21, 2017
True story: she inspired me to suggest my daughter's name when my ex and I were picking names.
I'm at a loss. I don't have any suggestions at this point except we have to keep on pushing back and trying to make gains somehow. I can't even stand to look sometimes we're on such a crap trajectory. I don't see any hope without some early end to the admin because institutional change can be hard to reverse once it gains momentum and they're setting the direction for the future right now.
posted by saulgoodman at 11:06 AM on June 21, 2017
I listened to the NPR Politics Podcast so you don't have to. What are the latest hot takes in shitty "both sides"ism?
In the latest episode, they describe the process for drafting the AHCA as "a little different" but not totally unprecedented. The words "secret" and "tax cut" are never used. It's all "behind closed doors".
Prior to that, they described how the problem with the ACA was that it passed on a party-line vote because Democrats didn't work with Republicans, so of course the AHCA will also be totally partisan as well because that's just the bed that Democrats made for themselves when they were so mean with the ACA and never made any compromises on the public option or taxes or anything else.
posted by 0xFCAF at 11:07 AM on June 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
In the latest episode, they describe the process for drafting the AHCA as "a little different" but not totally unprecedented. The words "secret" and "tax cut" are never used. It's all "behind closed doors".
Prior to that, they described how the problem with the ACA was that it passed on a party-line vote because Democrats didn't work with Republicans, so of course the AHCA will also be totally partisan as well because that's just the bed that Democrats made for themselves when they were so mean with the ACA and never made any compromises on the public option or taxes or anything else.
posted by 0xFCAF at 11:07 AM on June 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
Roll Call says that the GOP might effectively overrule the Senate Parliamentarian if they run into issues getting the health care bill to the required $1 billion in savings under the HELP Committee so that they can still pass it under reconciliation. It's a technical matter, but another chip away at Senate norms and the filibuster. The plan appears to now be bill text released Thursday, with a CBO score Friday, with a vote next week, though it's unclear whether there will be major changes next week (the article below cites Susan Collins for saying the score is coming Monday, so it will be a bit of a surprise).
Margaret Sullivan: A troubling health-care bill rushes forward in secret. The media (mostly) shrug.
Axios: What we know about the GOP Senate health bill. Short version is you can't charge sick people more, but states can waive essential health benefits and the definition of a quality health plan, meaning you don't have to provide sick people with coverage for their illnesses anymore. The changes to the tax credits are less dramatic than the House version, but will be scaled back from the ACA. Medicaid is still cut even worse than the House bill. The end result is still the same: take hundreds of billions of dollars of health care away from poor people and give it out as tax cuts for the wealthy.
But, they're realizing they can't get the anti-abortion restrictions through reconciliation, which could mean losing the stability fund and the restrictions on the tax credits entirely. At no point in this process does anybody appear to be asking any questions about health policy, like whether losing a $100 billion stability fund might have some kind of an effect, as they're too busy trying to ram something through.
posted by zachlipton at 11:08 AM on June 21, 2017 [18 favorites]
Margaret Sullivan: A troubling health-care bill rushes forward in secret. The media (mostly) shrug.
Early Wednesday, 52 headlines on CNN’s homepage covered everything from a special election in Georgia to “More ‘Bachelor in Paradise’ fallout.”There's been really good coverage from the Congressional and health care reporters, but if you rely on TV news, you have no clue that a life-or-death situation is up for a vote next week. Where's the March for Health Care? Where's the outrage?
Not one mentioned the Senate’s health-care bill. Nothing shouted the distressing idea that 23 million Americans stand to lose their health insurance. Nothing screamed that the Senate will probably vote on — and approve — the legislation next week, even though it’s being worked on behind closed doors, hidden from the public, from experts and from Democratic lawmakers.
CNN is not alone. At 7 a.m. Wednesday, USA Today’s homepage covered this crucial topic only in an opinion piece; not in a single news story, and with nothing on the front page of its print edition. On Fox News Channel’s homepage, the health news section pondered, “Does Werewolf Syndrome really exist?” but there was no mention of the Senate bill.
And in the first two weeks of June, according to a study, the three broadcast news networks gave the subject a combined three minutes of attention.
Axios: What we know about the GOP Senate health bill. Short version is you can't charge sick people more, but states can waive essential health benefits and the definition of a quality health plan, meaning you don't have to provide sick people with coverage for their illnesses anymore. The changes to the tax credits are less dramatic than the House version, but will be scaled back from the ACA. Medicaid is still cut even worse than the House bill. The end result is still the same: take hundreds of billions of dollars of health care away from poor people and give it out as tax cuts for the wealthy.
But, they're realizing they can't get the anti-abortion restrictions through reconciliation, which could mean losing the stability fund and the restrictions on the tax credits entirely. At no point in this process does anybody appear to be asking any questions about health policy, like whether losing a $100 billion stability fund might have some kind of an effect, as they're too busy trying to ram something through.
posted by zachlipton at 11:08 AM on June 21, 2017 [18 favorites]
Rick Hasen: [Hans] von Spakovsky, [J.] Christian Adams to Be Offering Advice, Reports to President’s “Election Integrity” Commission
@AriBerman: Two of the country's biggest voter fraud fraudsters are advising Trump's sham 'election integrity' commission
This truly is putting the extremely bigoted foxes in charge of the voters' henhouse.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:12 AM on June 21, 2017 [20 favorites]
@AriBerman: Two of the country's biggest voter fraud fraudsters are advising Trump's sham 'election integrity' commission
This truly is putting the extremely bigoted foxes in charge of the voters' henhouse.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:12 AM on June 21, 2017 [20 favorites]
You need more *candidates* like that. Especially in rural or suburban districts or states. Too many Dem candidates seem to be uptight academics with no social connectability.
As opposed to dumb-ass Republican candidates with no social acuity and a disgusting worldview?
Also, knowing stuff and being educated isn't a sign of poor character, and I reiterate that believing that it is is buying into the longstanding Republican narrative against liberalism, progressiveness, and education as a value. Being an uptight academic is a lot better than being a shit-kicker with no understanding of how government and policy work. Enough of that garbage about how people need to dumb themselves down for the lowest common denominator. We have that now, how's it working out? Oh, extremely poorly for everyone. Yeah, let's not keep driving that nonsense about how being educated makes you an asshole.
posted by Autumnheart at 11:13 AM on June 21, 2017 [14 favorites]
As opposed to dumb-ass Republican candidates with no social acuity and a disgusting worldview?
Also, knowing stuff and being educated isn't a sign of poor character, and I reiterate that believing that it is is buying into the longstanding Republican narrative against liberalism, progressiveness, and education as a value. Being an uptight academic is a lot better than being a shit-kicker with no understanding of how government and policy work. Enough of that garbage about how people need to dumb themselves down for the lowest common denominator. We have that now, how's it working out? Oh, extremely poorly for everyone. Yeah, let's not keep driving that nonsense about how being educated makes you an asshole.
posted by Autumnheart at 11:13 AM on June 21, 2017 [14 favorites]
Jennifer Rubin, WaPo: Three lessons for Trump opponents from Tuesday’s special elections
First, Democrats must tie Republican incumbents explicitly (both Republicans in the Tuesday races were replacing incumbents) to Trump and to votes on health care and other unpopular measures. It’s one thing to warn voters that the Republican is likely to go along with Trump’s agenda; it’s another to reel off a list of votes that betray working- and middle-class Americans[…]posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:15 AM on June 21, 2017 [8 favorites]
Second, Democrats need to figure out a positive agenda on which to run. In a statement after the GA-6 loss, MoveOn.org complained: “In the closing weeks of the race, [Jon] Ossoff and the [Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee] missed an opportunity to make Republicans’ attack on health care the key issue, and instead attempted to portray Ossoff as a centrist, focusing on cutting spending and coming out in opposition to Medicare for All. This approach did not prove a recipe for electoral success."[…]
Third, Republicans who have held firm and opposed Trump cannot count on Democrats to knock out Trump enablers. #NeverTrump Republicans should, where feasible, consider primary challenges and/or third-party races to present voters with an alternative center-right candidate, someone who will insist on enforcement of the Constitution’s emoluments clause, root out Trumpian corruption, demand that the president fulfill promises to rebuild the military and take on his complete failure to reform the bureaucracy.
nonasuch: "I have a dumb question, re GA-06: the seat goes up for grabs in 2018 along with the rest, right? So basically Handel has a year and a half to get Trump stink on her with the rest of the House Rs, and if they've shit the bed badly enough that the current wave is even 2 points stronger, she's out. Right?"
Yes, the special election was just to fill out Price's unfinished term. It will be up again in November 2018, just like all other House seats.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:16 AM on June 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
Yes, the special election was just to fill out Price's unfinished term. It will be up again in November 2018, just like all other House seats.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:16 AM on June 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
Apologies for Twitter links, but I don't think these photos are up anywhere else yet. The Iowa women's march people have put up a series of billboards near where the Trump rally is tonight. It turns out that getting electronic billboards for a day is pretty cheap, which might be something to keep in mind for next time Trump is in your neck of the woods.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:18 AM on June 21, 2017 [48 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:18 AM on June 21, 2017 [48 favorites]
jackbishop: "But at the end of the day, it would be nice to win something. Not necessarily a big important flashy race. Have we maybe picked up a legislature seat somewhere? For morale purposes, I mean."
Yes. The Democrats have picked up New Hampshire House district 6 and New York Assembly district 9.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:18 AM on June 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
Yes. The Democrats have picked up New Hampshire House district 6 and New York Assembly district 9.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:18 AM on June 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
Can someone explain to me why they keep bringing up restrictions on what can and can't be changed during reconciliation?
There's nothing in the Constitution about that, it's just Congressional rules. IIRC when they run into a Congressional rule conflict the majority party can basically just say "we want to do it this way" and move on.
So why **CAN'T** the Republicans just do literally anything they want under reconciliation and tell the Democrats to pound sand if they don't like it?
Obviously anyone with the faintest bit of honor, integrity, respect for process, rule of law, fairness, and so on would have a problem, but they're Republicans so obviously none of that would be an issue. Of course possible fear of Democratic retaliation if the Democrats ever get a majority again might hold them back, but the Democrats have proven time and again that they'll never retaliate, so again no problem.
It seems like a perfect way for them to get what they want without technically nuking the filibuster.
Is there actually anything stopping them from just putting absolutely anything they want in the bill and passing it via reconciliation?
posted by sotonohito at 11:25 AM on June 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
There's nothing in the Constitution about that, it's just Congressional rules. IIRC when they run into a Congressional rule conflict the majority party can basically just say "we want to do it this way" and move on.
So why **CAN'T** the Republicans just do literally anything they want under reconciliation and tell the Democrats to pound sand if they don't like it?
Obviously anyone with the faintest bit of honor, integrity, respect for process, rule of law, fairness, and so on would have a problem, but they're Republicans so obviously none of that would be an issue. Of course possible fear of Democratic retaliation if the Democrats ever get a majority again might hold them back, but the Democrats have proven time and again that they'll never retaliate, so again no problem.
It seems like a perfect way for them to get what they want without technically nuking the filibuster.
Is there actually anything stopping them from just putting absolutely anything they want in the bill and passing it via reconciliation?
posted by sotonohito at 11:25 AM on June 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Also, knowing stuff and being educated isn't a sign of poor character, and I reiterate that believing that it is is buying into the longstanding Republican narrative against liberalism, progressiveness, and education as a value. Being an uptight academic is a lot better than being a shit-kicker with no understanding of how government and policy work. Enough of that garbage about how people need to dumb themselves down for the lowest common denominator. We have that now, how's it working out? Oh, extremely poorly for everyone. Yeah, let's not keep driving that nonsense about how being educated makes you an asshole.
I'm not sure what you're arguing against because I said none of those things. I'm talking about what the mass of non-political people vote for, not what you or I think.
Obama and Bill Clinton were highly educated candidates and won over many voters in large part because they were relaxed and folksy. This did so without dumbing-down or downplaying their achievements in any way.
I agree an uptight academic is better than a shit-kicker with no understanding. So do most of the people reading this. But you have to understand and accept that the majority of voters don't care about any of that stuff, and will vote for the shit-kicker if he or she is someone they identify with or think they could be friends with.
We can't afford to assume other people think and act like we do. And we can't write them off either because their votes count as much as ours, and they outnumber us.
posted by rocket88 at 11:29 AM on June 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm not sure what you're arguing against because I said none of those things. I'm talking about what the mass of non-political people vote for, not what you or I think.
Obama and Bill Clinton were highly educated candidates and won over many voters in large part because they were relaxed and folksy. This did so without dumbing-down or downplaying their achievements in any way.
I agree an uptight academic is better than a shit-kicker with no understanding. So do most of the people reading this. But you have to understand and accept that the majority of voters don't care about any of that stuff, and will vote for the shit-kicker if he or she is someone they identify with or think they could be friends with.
We can't afford to assume other people think and act like we do. And we can't write them off either because their votes count as much as ours, and they outnumber us.
posted by rocket88 at 11:29 AM on June 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
zachlipton: "
On that note: The Week/Ryan Cooper—The big lesson of Ossoff's defeat is that Democrats must run on policy
Now, a decent bunch of that article really comes down to "Ossoff should have run on my policy," which is a very different matter."
Yglesias jokes after every election, "This outcome validates my policy preferences." Seeing a whole lot of that today.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:31 AM on June 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
On that note: The Week/Ryan Cooper—The big lesson of Ossoff's defeat is that Democrats must run on policy
Now, a decent bunch of that article really comes down to "Ossoff should have run on my policy," which is a very different matter."
Yglesias jokes after every election, "This outcome validates my policy preferences." Seeing a whole lot of that today.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:31 AM on June 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Dan Merica, Lauren Fox and MJ Lee, CNN: Senate to White House on health care: No Trump, please
Could Trump be goaded into commenting on the upcoming 'health care' bill and lowering the possibility of it passing?
posted by ZeusHumms at 11:31 AM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Could Trump be goaded into commenting on the upcoming 'health care' bill and lowering the possibility of it passing?
posted by ZeusHumms at 11:31 AM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
So why **CAN'T** the Republicans just do literally anything they want under reconciliation and tell the Democrats to pound sand if they don't like it?
I'm honestly lost on this one as well. Republicans have been shitting all over norms in the Senate for years now with no political penalty. After stealing a Supreme Court seat but taking the White House, Senate, and House, you'd think they'd embrace the fact that they somehow get a free pass on this and really take advantage of it.
Like, if you somehow realized the police didn't care if you robbed a bank, why would you only take the $20s? The $100s are right there. Just go for it, man. John McCain will be there in a Reagan mask going "I'm really concerned about how we're taking money without asking" as he shovels Benjamins into a burlap sack. What is holding them back?
posted by 0xFCAF at 11:33 AM on June 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
I'm honestly lost on this one as well. Republicans have been shitting all over norms in the Senate for years now with no political penalty. After stealing a Supreme Court seat but taking the White House, Senate, and House, you'd think they'd embrace the fact that they somehow get a free pass on this and really take advantage of it.
Like, if you somehow realized the police didn't care if you robbed a bank, why would you only take the $20s? The $100s are right there. Just go for it, man. John McCain will be there in a Reagan mask going "I'm really concerned about how we're taking money without asking" as he shovels Benjamins into a burlap sack. What is holding them back?
posted by 0xFCAF at 11:33 AM on June 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
This is...There are no words. The littlest lobbyist: a 6-year-old, whose life depends on ACA, heads to Capitol Hill. Sen. Portman's office was the only GOP office that would meet with them. The GOP leadership has time for Bono though.
Politico: Congressional Black Caucus expected to decline Trump meeting
And Jennifer Rubin: McConnell is turning the Senate into a knock-off of the House
Politico: Congressional Black Caucus expected to decline Trump meeting
The Trump administration, sources said, has done nothing to advance the CBC's priorities since the group's executive board first met with Trump in March. And members are worried the request for a caucus-wide meeting would amount to little more than a photo op that the president could use to bolster his standing among African-Americans.But check this out:
“No one wants to be a co-star on the reality show,” said one senior Democratic aide.
But multiple CBC members said they were put off that she signed the invitation as “the Honorable Omarosa Manigault,” saying she hasn’t earned that title nor has she helped raise the profile of CBC issues within the White House as promised.Photo of the signature here. For the record, White House senior staff are sometimes called "the Honorable", but not by Emiily Post's standards, and even if you are honorable, you don't sign your own letters like that.
And Jennifer Rubin: McConnell is turning the Senate into a knock-off of the House
Of course, all that is necessary to end this travesty is three GOP senators willing to stand up and say, “No. Stop.” With only 52 Republicans in the Senate that would be sufficient to stop this reprehensible rush to decision, one that evidences little concern for one-sixth of the economy they would disrupt and for the lives of tens of millions of Americans who could be dramatically harmed.posted by zachlipton at 11:36 AM on June 21, 2017 [42 favorites]
I'm surprised even one Republican had the gall, nerve, whatittakes, to meet with one of the people they're condemning to death.
posted by sotonohito at 11:42 AM on June 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by sotonohito at 11:42 AM on June 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
Obama and Bill Clinton were highly educated candidates and won over many voters in large part because they were relaxed and folksy. This did so without dumbing-down or downplaying their achievements in any way.
Right, and look how well their administrations turned out. They won elections, but they couldn't actually accomplish anything approaching a productive agenda because the Republicans in both cases decided that demonizing both men and diminishing their ability to govern by any means possible was their new favorite thing. And in fact, it was so successful that it continued for 20 years, ruined Hillary's chances of being elected, and gave rise to a president that is so stupid and insane that he will happily destroy anything that Obama did, expressly because Obama did it, even if it is objectively a terrible idea to do so.
And yes, the last thing we should be doing is blaming qualified, educated candidates for NOT being appealing enough to the Joe Sixpacks of the nation. Joe Sixpack is voting for Trump. And not because Trump is such a nice, charming guy with wide appeal to the populace of the nation, but because he totally isn't.
posted by Autumnheart at 11:43 AM on June 21, 2017 [16 favorites]
Right, and look how well their administrations turned out. They won elections, but they couldn't actually accomplish anything approaching a productive agenda because the Republicans in both cases decided that demonizing both men and diminishing their ability to govern by any means possible was their new favorite thing. And in fact, it was so successful that it continued for 20 years, ruined Hillary's chances of being elected, and gave rise to a president that is so stupid and insane that he will happily destroy anything that Obama did, expressly because Obama did it, even if it is objectively a terrible idea to do so.
And yes, the last thing we should be doing is blaming qualified, educated candidates for NOT being appealing enough to the Joe Sixpacks of the nation. Joe Sixpack is voting for Trump. And not because Trump is such a nice, charming guy with wide appeal to the populace of the nation, but because he totally isn't.
posted by Autumnheart at 11:43 AM on June 21, 2017 [16 favorites]
So, I will stay out of the "what do the Dems need to do?" discussion. I will point out that there are still LOTS of elections this year, where you can help.
* There are numerous state legislature special elections before November. Flippable has a list, with candidate webpage links.
* There are a passel of Washington state specials in November, which could return WA to unified Dem control.
* And there are the VA gov/lt gov/AG and House of Delegates races. Flipping the VA House is a stretch, but not impossible. (There's NJ, too, but it looks pretty solidly Dem).
These state ones tend to be really small bore and neglected - if you can help by donating $25, or by canvassing or making phone calls a few times, that can really make a significant difference!
It's greatly underappreciated how much policy comes out of the state legislatures. Please - if you are worried about where we are headed, consider helping out on some of the above races.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:47 AM on June 21, 2017 [37 favorites]
* There are numerous state legislature special elections before November. Flippable has a list, with candidate webpage links.
* There are a passel of Washington state specials in November, which could return WA to unified Dem control.
* And there are the VA gov/lt gov/AG and House of Delegates races. Flipping the VA House is a stretch, but not impossible. (There's NJ, too, but it looks pretty solidly Dem).
These state ones tend to be really small bore and neglected - if you can help by donating $25, or by canvassing or making phone calls a few times, that can really make a significant difference!
It's greatly underappreciated how much policy comes out of the state legislatures. Please - if you are worried about where we are headed, consider helping out on some of the above races.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:47 AM on June 21, 2017 [37 favorites]
So why **CAN'T** the Republicans just do literally anything they want under reconciliation and tell the Democrats to pound sand if they don't like it?
They can, but they have to live with it being used against their goals in the future. So they need to weigh the reward - get this through - against the risk. They accepted the cost in removing the supreme court cloture requirement because they were looking at a chance at a seismic shift in the court balance and because the math and ages of current justices increases their shot at a payoff. And it's a payoff that continues past the 2018 and 2020 elections.
Altering the reconciliation limits, or the filibuster, has much more immediate possible consequences. Unlike an appointed for life justice, this rule change could mean that they get what they want now but it's immediately flipped in 2020. And when it's this potentially toxic that's all the more likely.
posted by phearlez at 11:48 AM on June 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
They can, but they have to live with it being used against their goals in the future. So they need to weigh the reward - get this through - against the risk. They accepted the cost in removing the supreme court cloture requirement because they were looking at a chance at a seismic shift in the court balance and because the math and ages of current justices increases their shot at a payoff. And it's a payoff that continues past the 2018 and 2020 elections.
Altering the reconciliation limits, or the filibuster, has much more immediate possible consequences. Unlike an appointed for life justice, this rule change could mean that they get what they want now but it's immediately flipped in 2020. And when it's this potentially toxic that's all the more likely.
posted by phearlez at 11:48 AM on June 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Assuming it is flipped, but then they have 4 years and a ton of Russian hackers to make sure that doesn't happen.
posted by Autumnheart at 11:53 AM on June 21, 2017
posted by Autumnheart at 11:53 AM on June 21, 2017
Re: changing the rules to get past reconciliation difficulties. You'd have to get a majority of GOP senators to agree to it. That's hard because those arcane rules give individual senators independence from Senate and party leadership --- the obstacles create negotiating opportunities for individual senators to get concessions for their various constituencies. Any vote that greases the legislative skids is a vote for reduced power for individuals. It's not an easy vote to win, trying to do it can fracture the facade of consensus, and losing weakens leadership, so it's better left alone.
posted by notyou at 11:54 AM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by notyou at 11:54 AM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Reconciliation isn't like the filibuster. It's not a matter of Senate rules. The guys who wrote the Budget Act of 1974 knew the Senate would be squirrelly about matters of internal rules, so they codified it into Federal law. It's 2 USC 641 (2 USC 631-645a are the whole law, pretty much). The three-fifths requirement to waive the Byrd Rule expired under federal law in 2002, and is currently a Senate rule (contrary to what I had commented earlier).
posted by Huffy Puffy at 11:57 AM on June 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Huffy Puffy at 11:57 AM on June 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
>> They win by whipping up pogroms.
> As someone who had several not-so-distant ancestors who died during pogroms, perhaps this is not a word to casually throw around if you don't have more of an understanding of what a fucking pogrom actually was.
I do know what it means and I stand by what I said. The right in America are the people who burned the Black Wall Street in Tulsa in 1921. They're the people who riot to keep Black children out of schools. They're the people who've been lynching Black people from the fall of the Confederacy all the way to the present day. They're the people who shoot up churches and mosques. Who think that cops are justified in murdering children of color. They're not aggressively targeting Jewish communities right now, but give them time and they will.
The right wins by whipping up pogroms. I do not retract the statement.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:58 AM on June 21, 2017 [38 favorites]
> As someone who had several not-so-distant ancestors who died during pogroms, perhaps this is not a word to casually throw around if you don't have more of an understanding of what a fucking pogrom actually was.
I do know what it means and I stand by what I said. The right in America are the people who burned the Black Wall Street in Tulsa in 1921. They're the people who riot to keep Black children out of schools. They're the people who've been lynching Black people from the fall of the Confederacy all the way to the present day. They're the people who shoot up churches and mosques. Who think that cops are justified in murdering children of color. They're not aggressively targeting Jewish communities right now, but give them time and they will.
The right wins by whipping up pogroms. I do not retract the statement.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:58 AM on June 21, 2017 [38 favorites]
Speaking as another person related to/descended from the victims of pogroms, I have no objection to the use of the word in this context.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:02 PM on June 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:02 PM on June 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
Also, they're betting that the Dems won't see the shit they're pulling and decide to play by the GOP's own rules -- specifically, "rules only matter until they stop us from getting something we really want." Since the parties want different things that are affected by different norms and procedures, this way the Republicans can keep doing whatever they want, and if/when they take power Democrats will still feel constrained by the limits on the separate stuff they want.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:03 PM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:03 PM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Mod note: Maybe let's leave it at that, on the specific question of whether "progrom" is the proper term for organized racist attacks in the US; we can object to the attacks whatever term gets used so the core point doesn't really depend on the term.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:04 PM on June 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:04 PM on June 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
Word is that Ron Johnson here in Wisconsin is saying the healthcare vote should be delayed until after the recess next month. The official statement isn't loading on his site right now (link for posterity, found on his press release page), and from what I'm hearing on unofficial sources the wording might have some weasel words about being able simply needing the information to "justify a yes vote", but his office is answering phone calls by talking about waiting to vote.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 12:10 PM on June 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 12:10 PM on June 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Don't give up For a long while, I haven't been able to listen to music because of stress, but now and then I have openings. Here's one
posted by mumimor at 12:12 PM on June 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by mumimor at 12:12 PM on June 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
CNN: Progressives already thought Democrats were aimless. The special election wipeout might prove their point
posted by Space Coyote at 12:24 PM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Space Coyote at 12:24 PM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Ah, news article on Johnson's statements on healthcare.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 12:26 PM on June 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
“I am going to need the information to justify a yes vote. I’ll need the information to vote on a very imperfect bill that doesn’t even come close to doing the things that I want to see done,” Johnson said.So, you know, he's concerned. Heard that before. Better than nothing?
...
He did not rule out voting for the GOP bill next week despite the reservations he expressed Wednesday.
“Never say never,” he told the Journal Sentinel. The second-term Republican said that assuming there is a vote next week, “my evaluation will be, is it an improvement over the current situation? … I will not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.”
...
“I am in a hurry to stabilize the markets,” said Johnson, but not in the same hurry to pass a repeal-and-replace bill by next week.
“I am not agreeing with (my) leadership on that,” he said.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 12:26 PM on June 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
Just to add to zachlipton's earlier comment about the lack of awareness surrounding the healthcare bill, The Post recently published an op-ed damning the impotency, cowardice, greed, and/or apathy of popular media outlets regarding this issue. Not that it prescribes any solutions, but the author does give credit to the work being done at FAIR.
posted by Johann Georg Faust at 12:26 PM on June 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Johann Georg Faust at 12:26 PM on June 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
Letter from the Congressional Black Caucus declining to meet with Trump. In summary: we gave you a 130-page policy document when we met with you in March, along with half a dozen letters to members of the administration on topics from Flint to hate crimes to police oversight, and nobody has bothered to reply, also your budget is terrible, so you haven't begun to earn a photo-op with us.
They've spun Trump's "what do you have to lose?" from the campaign into "The CBC, and the millions of people we represent, have a lot to lose under your Administration."
posted by zachlipton at 12:32 PM on June 21, 2017 [63 favorites]
They've spun Trump's "what do you have to lose?" from the campaign into "The CBC, and the millions of people we represent, have a lot to lose under your Administration."
posted by zachlipton at 12:32 PM on June 21, 2017 [63 favorites]
CNN: Progressives already thought Democrats were aimless. The special election wipeout might prove their point
Good old CNN. Abandon all nuance and context to maintain that horse race!
I wouldn't mind all the brainless fucking "neutrality" so much if it was actually reasonably sensible and maybe even half baked in fact.
posted by Talez at 12:34 PM on June 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
Good old CNN. Abandon all nuance and context to maintain that horse race!
I wouldn't mind all the brainless fucking "neutrality" so much if it was actually reasonably sensible and maybe even half baked in fact.
posted by Talez at 12:34 PM on June 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
I really hope this thing with Felix Sater has legs. Trump is so fucking dirty.
Warning: Link has autoplay video of Trump speaking. A few seconds in he pronounces "Little Havana" in a way that made me almost break my mouse button hitting the "close tab" button so hard. *shudder*
posted by Roommate at 12:52 PM on June 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Warning: Link has autoplay video of Trump speaking. A few seconds in he pronounces "Little Havana" in a way that made me almost break my mouse button hitting the "close tab" button so hard. *shudder*
posted by Roommate at 12:52 PM on June 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Can you blame Trump? It's like we expect him to actually respond to a black caucus when he comes into contact with one. Outrageous.
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:55 PM on June 21, 2017
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:55 PM on June 21, 2017
I really hope this thing with Felix Sater has legs. Trump is so fucking dirty.
If Mueller's going after Sater, and by extension, Bayrock, things are going to become even more interesting and more convoluted.
Of all the players in the Trump/Russia scandal, Felix Sater, Trump’s business partner in the Trump Soho hotel and with the incredibly dubious Bayrock Group, may not have been in the headlines as much as Manafort or Flynn, but he's easily one of the shadiest. He's a mob hustler, FBI fink, and twice-convicted felon, with ties to international crime and the CIA. He's also a pivotal figure in Team Trump's dubious back-channel peace plan for Ukraine and Russia.
Incidentally, Mueller's pick of Adam Weismann for his investigative murderers' row only gets better - it turns out that in the late 90s, when Weismann was a prosecutor with the U.S. attorney's office in Brooklyn, he was on the team that prosecuted mob investment scammers ... including Felix Sater.
posted by Doktor Zed at 12:59 PM on June 21, 2017 [33 favorites]
If Mueller's going after Sater, and by extension, Bayrock, things are going to become even more interesting and more convoluted.
Of all the players in the Trump/Russia scandal, Felix Sater, Trump’s business partner in the Trump Soho hotel and with the incredibly dubious Bayrock Group, may not have been in the headlines as much as Manafort or Flynn, but he's easily one of the shadiest. He's a mob hustler, FBI fink, and twice-convicted felon, with ties to international crime and the CIA. He's also a pivotal figure in Team Trump's dubious back-channel peace plan for Ukraine and Russia.
Incidentally, Mueller's pick of Adam Weismann for his investigative murderers' row only gets better - it turns out that in the late 90s, when Weismann was a prosecutor with the U.S. attorney's office in Brooklyn, he was on the team that prosecuted mob investment scammers ... including Felix Sater.
posted by Doktor Zed at 12:59 PM on June 21, 2017 [33 favorites]
Ugh, this weird narrative of "Democrats are in such shambles that they can't even win elections in traditionally very Republican districts!"
posted by InTheYear2017 at 1:01 PM on June 21, 2017 [63 favorites]
posted by InTheYear2017 at 1:01 PM on June 21, 2017 [63 favorites]
Felix Sater [is] a mob hustler, FBI fink, and twice-convicted felon, with ties to international crime and the CIA.
If he has two convictions, I'd presume he would be highly motivated to make a deal that might avoid a third.
posted by Gelatin at 1:03 PM on June 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
If he has two convictions, I'd presume he would be highly motivated to make a deal that might avoid a third.
posted by Gelatin at 1:03 PM on June 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
First, Democrats must tie Republican incumbents explicitly (both Republicans in the Tuesday races were replacing incumbents) to Trump and to votes on health care and other unpopular measures.
So, if the AHCA does pass? I'd like to see a TV ad that's all the Dems in both houses in a big group, just saying "Hi America, just letting you know, we didn't want this for you. We repeat: the upcoming healthcare shitstorm is brought to you, unquestionably and exclusively, by the Republicans in Congress and President Trump. And oh yeah, there's an election coming up in 2018..."
posted by Rykey at 1:03 PM on June 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
So, if the AHCA does pass? I'd like to see a TV ad that's all the Dems in both houses in a big group, just saying "Hi America, just letting you know, we didn't want this for you. We repeat: the upcoming healthcare shitstorm is brought to you, unquestionably and exclusively, by the Republicans in Congress and President Trump. And oh yeah, there's an election coming up in 2018..."
posted by Rykey at 1:03 PM on June 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
The Onion: Robed Mark Warner Infiltrates Secret Torchlit AHCA Ceremony Deep In Woods Behind Capitol. "Staring in horror at the profane legislative ritual taking place around him, a robed Sen. Mark Warner (D-VA) reportedly infiltrated congressional Republicans’ secret, torchlit American Health Care Act ceremony deep in the woods behind the U.S. Capitol late Tuesday night. 'I heard this eerie chanting as I left my office, and when I followed the sound I saw a line of GOP senators in long, flowing vestments being led into the forest by Mitch McConnell,' said Warner, explaining that he quickly donned an extra robe he found behind a tree and then quietly fell in formation at the rear of the column of conservative lawmakers in hopes of catching a glimpse of their mysterious health policy deliberations..."
posted by jocelmeow at 1:05 PM on June 21, 2017 [31 favorites]
posted by jocelmeow at 1:05 PM on June 21, 2017 [31 favorites]
the only reason that media narrative matters is that the orange man is hooked up to it — we have government by media feedback loop.
god I wish our universe weren't so cronenberged up.
but yeah probably the only thing to be done with CNN, Fox et al is to make sure that everyone you knows knows not to pay attention to them. turn 'em off when you see 'em on at the gym or in waiting rooms. there's no potential for good there.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:05 PM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
god I wish our universe weren't so cronenberged up.
but yeah probably the only thing to be done with CNN, Fox et al is to make sure that everyone you knows knows not to pay attention to them. turn 'em off when you see 'em on at the gym or in waiting rooms. there's no potential for good there.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:05 PM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Former Mafia-linked figure describes association with Trump
Trump has repeatedly said he barely remembers Sater. In sworn testimony in 2013, Trump said he wouldn’t recognize Sater if they were sitting in the same room. In an interview last year with the Associated Press, he said, “Felix Sater, boy, I have to even think about it.”posted by kirkaracha at 1:08 PM on June 21, 2017 [16 favorites]
Sater, in previously unreported sworn testimony reviewed by The Washington Post, described a closer relationship.
Sater said he popped into Trump’s office frequently over a six-year period to talk business. He recalled flying to Colorado with Trump and said that Trump once asked him to escort his children Donald Jr. and Ivanka around Moscow.
I'd like to see a TV ad that's all the Dems in both houses in a big group, just saying "Hi America, just letting you know, we didn't want this for you. We repeat: the upcoming healthcare shitstorm is brought to you, unquestionably and exclusively, by the Republicans in Congress and President Trump. And oh yeah, there's an election coming up in 2018..."
I'd like to see a series of ads, not unlike the "Harry and Louise" ads that helped torpedo Clinton's health reform initiative. Each one could focus on a different way the Republican plan is terrible. (And golly, wouldn't it be great if someone could hire the original two actors, who would now be around retirement age?)
I'd also like to see Democrats start to hammer a too-often-overlooked point in Bill Kristol's infamous memo outlining Republican lockstep opposition to Clinton's health reform initiative: The Republican disaster is proof that yes, government can and does do positive things for the American people, and claims otherwise, including and especially Reagan's, are a pernicious lie.
An unregulated health insurance market didn't protect pre-existing conditions or essential services; the government did. In fact, Democrats did. You're welcome, America.
posted by Gelatin at 1:08 PM on June 21, 2017 [47 favorites]
I'd like to see a series of ads, not unlike the "Harry and Louise" ads that helped torpedo Clinton's health reform initiative. Each one could focus on a different way the Republican plan is terrible. (And golly, wouldn't it be great if someone could hire the original two actors, who would now be around retirement age?)
I'd also like to see Democrats start to hammer a too-often-overlooked point in Bill Kristol's infamous memo outlining Republican lockstep opposition to Clinton's health reform initiative: The Republican disaster is proof that yes, government can and does do positive things for the American people, and claims otherwise, including and especially Reagan's, are a pernicious lie.
An unregulated health insurance market didn't protect pre-existing conditions or essential services; the government did. In fact, Democrats did. You're welcome, America.
posted by Gelatin at 1:08 PM on June 21, 2017 [47 favorites]
Sen. Sanders interviewed Sen. Warren for his podcast (audio 34min, from a couple days ago). They talked mainly about the secret healthcare bill and fighting it. They stressed the importance of public engagement (phoning and writing and speaking up). And Warren especially wants people to share their healthcare stories ... I thought it was a good suggestion and an actual story writing campaign could be a good strategy because if just one gets through ... stories can often have oversized impact. Another suggestion for fighting back, especially from blue states where people already have representatives that are onside with them, is to reach out to people you know in red states and give them moral encouragement. Just sharing news of what is happening and sort of letting them know they aren't alone in concern or fighting back and demanding something better. Not sure how it would work exactly but I've heard Bernie suggest it a few times.
Adjacent thought;
When Sec. Chao testified recently about the Transportation Department budget she stood firmly behind the administration policy that states that; requests from minority members were to be ignored.
In all the other budget hearings the administration officials have mostly taken the tact of saying that the directive (while clearly written down) isn't in play and that they intend to work with both parties (even after many departments have shown unresponsiveness to minority inquiries (ie; Sen. Murrary who sent 7 letters to Sec. DeVos and got no response)). But Chao really took it a step further and said this has always been the policy and the minority basically can get bent. She wasn't the least bit conciliatory and seemed actively hostile toward all Democrats no matter how mundane the questions.
So, that hearing, combined with McConnell, who has realized there are no strict rules any more, and the secret play for healthcare (which is mindbogglingly money measuring rather than people protecting) ... maybe it is all just about the tax breaks, but the stridency for secrecy from the DOT leads me to wonder what else might be cooking. (At least between McConnell and Chao). Sort of, if we are going to take a hatchet to medicare/aid why just cut taxes when we can also make some space for the promised infrastructure project. Anyway just a side observation.*
*My observations can be wildly and stunningly wrong.
posted by phoque at 1:24 PM on June 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Adjacent thought;
When Sec. Chao testified recently about the Transportation Department budget she stood firmly behind the administration policy that states that; requests from minority members were to be ignored.
In all the other budget hearings the administration officials have mostly taken the tact of saying that the directive (while clearly written down) isn't in play and that they intend to work with both parties (even after many departments have shown unresponsiveness to minority inquiries (ie; Sen. Murrary who sent 7 letters to Sec. DeVos and got no response)). But Chao really took it a step further and said this has always been the policy and the minority basically can get bent. She wasn't the least bit conciliatory and seemed actively hostile toward all Democrats no matter how mundane the questions.
So, that hearing, combined with McConnell, who has realized there are no strict rules any more, and the secret play for healthcare (which is mindbogglingly money measuring rather than people protecting) ... maybe it is all just about the tax breaks, but the stridency for secrecy from the DOT leads me to wonder what else might be cooking. (At least between McConnell and Chao). Sort of, if we are going to take a hatchet to medicare/aid why just cut taxes when we can also make some space for the promised infrastructure project. Anyway just a side observation.*
*My observations can be wildly and stunningly wrong.
posted by phoque at 1:24 PM on June 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
the only reason that media narrative matters is that the orange man is hooked up to it — we have government by media feedback loop.
It's bizarre how painfully clear it's been made over the past few years that so much of the conventional wisdom around politics is bullshit; that voters as a group and most of the politicians they elect don't actually care about norms, hearing both sides, or history; and that the majority of political talking heads are idiots who've been repeatedly and provably wrong on a whole host of issues, and yet cable news's obsession with all of this stuff is arguably more important than ever just because our government is lead by someone who would at any moment rather be watching fucking Fox & Friends.
posted by Copronymus at 1:27 PM on June 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's bizarre how painfully clear it's been made over the past few years that so much of the conventional wisdom around politics is bullshit; that voters as a group and most of the politicians they elect don't actually care about norms, hearing both sides, or history; and that the majority of political talking heads are idiots who've been repeatedly and provably wrong on a whole host of issues, and yet cable news's obsession with all of this stuff is arguably more important than ever just because our government is lead by someone who would at any moment rather be watching fucking Fox & Friends.
posted by Copronymus at 1:27 PM on June 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
But as best I could tell from far away, GA-06, in the race that played out on people's TV screens and mailboxes, came down to a ton of attacks and very little actual policy.
What I saw was a mix, Ossoff ads about policy and Handel. All the Handel ads I saw were generic. She talked about how much she loved Georgia. She didn't even mention being a Republican or Conservative in several ads. The third party ads were crazy. The Ossoff ads were the only ones that talked about policy.
Ugh, this weird narrative of "Democrats are in such shambles that they can't even win elections in traditionally very Republican districts!"
This went from "people hate Trump so much a Dem could win GA-6, wouldn't that be completely crazy?!" to "The Dems fucked up, they should have had it" even though it was very close. That's the media for you. But it's also "friends" of the Left.
posted by bongo_x at 1:28 PM on June 21, 2017 [18 favorites]
What I saw was a mix, Ossoff ads about policy and Handel. All the Handel ads I saw were generic. She talked about how much she loved Georgia. She didn't even mention being a Republican or Conservative in several ads. The third party ads were crazy. The Ossoff ads were the only ones that talked about policy.
Ugh, this weird narrative of "Democrats are in such shambles that they can't even win elections in traditionally very Republican districts!"
This went from "people hate Trump so much a Dem could win GA-6, wouldn't that be completely crazy?!" to "The Dems fucked up, they should have had it" even though it was very close. That's the media for you. But it's also "friends" of the Left.
posted by bongo_x at 1:28 PM on June 21, 2017 [18 favorites]
[Maybe let's leave it at that, on the specific question of whether "progrom" is the proper term for organized racist attacks in the US; we can object to the attacks whatever term gets used so the core point doesn't really depend on the term.]
The proper use of the word matters. Here's why: A pogrom is not a proper catch-all term for organized racist attacks in the United States. It is also not the proper term for racist attacks sanctioned by the U.S. government. It is not a word that means race riots. It is a loan word from Yiddish, a Jewish language, which refers to historical events in which governments sanctioned the attempted ethnic cleansing and murder of Jews and were specifically motivated by antisemitism.
Even on the rare occasions when scholars have used the term to refer to attacks on non-Jews, they tend to restrict themselves to describing attacks against a minority religious group. Not a racial one. Even if we were to argue that the term has been somehow deprecated in modern times, it still has a very specific history that shouldn’t simply be dismissed or ignored.
The word is similar in a way to lynchings, which has become synonymous with acts of racial terrorism against African Americans to preserve white supremacy. Neither are catch-all words. They should not be used casually.
Diminishing what was done to an entire group of people because of their heritage and religious beliefs, in order to make a "core point" is not an objection. It is erasure.
posted by zarq at 1:40 PM on June 21, 2017 [28 favorites]
The proper use of the word matters. Here's why: A pogrom is not a proper catch-all term for organized racist attacks in the United States. It is also not the proper term for racist attacks sanctioned by the U.S. government. It is not a word that means race riots. It is a loan word from Yiddish, a Jewish language, which refers to historical events in which governments sanctioned the attempted ethnic cleansing and murder of Jews and were specifically motivated by antisemitism.
Even on the rare occasions when scholars have used the term to refer to attacks on non-Jews, they tend to restrict themselves to describing attacks against a minority religious group. Not a racial one. Even if we were to argue that the term has been somehow deprecated in modern times, it still has a very specific history that shouldn’t simply be dismissed or ignored.
The word is similar in a way to lynchings, which has become synonymous with acts of racial terrorism against African Americans to preserve white supremacy. Neither are catch-all words. They should not be used casually.
Diminishing what was done to an entire group of people because of their heritage and religious beliefs, in order to make a "core point" is not an objection. It is erasure.
posted by zarq at 1:40 PM on June 21, 2017 [28 favorites]
Right, and look how well their administrations turned out. They won elections, but they couldn't actually accomplish anything approaching a productive agenda
Uh... let's not retcon history. Both Clinton and Obama's presidencies were extremely productive. They may or may not have been productive along the specific agenda lines you prefer but that's a different matter.
posted by Justinian at 1:45 PM on June 21, 2017 [31 favorites]
Uh... let's not retcon history. Both Clinton and Obama's presidencies were extremely productive. They may or may not have been productive along the specific agenda lines you prefer but that's a different matter.
posted by Justinian at 1:45 PM on June 21, 2017 [31 favorites]
Penetrated: Today’s Senate Intelligence Committee Hearing on Russian Interference in the 2016 U.S. Elections
If you didn’t catch the Senate Intelligence Committee hearing on Russian influence on 2016 U.S. election on live stream, you should try to catch a replay online. I missed the first panel but caught the second when University of Michigan Prof. J. Alex Halderman began his testimony with his opening statement. [...]posted by tonycpsu at 1:46 PM on June 21, 2017 [33 favorites]
When asked if it was possible Russia could change votes, Halderman told the SIC that he and a team of students demonstrated they were able to hack DC’s voting system, change votes, and do so undetected in under 48 hours. Conveniently, Fox News interviewed Halderman last September; Halderman explained the DC hack demonstration at that time (see embedded video); the interview fit well with Trump’s months-long narrative that the election was ‘rigged’.
If you aren’t at least mildly panicked after watching the second panel’s testimony and reading Halderman’s statement, you’re asleep or dead, or you just plain don’t care about the U.S.’ democratic system.
Contrast and compare this Senate hearing to the House Intelligence Committee’s hearing with former DHS Secretary Jeh Johnson as a witness. [...] Early in the hearing, Johnson as well as DHS witnesses Jeanette Manfra and Samuel Liles said there was no evidence votes were changed. It’s important to note, though, that Johnson later clarifies in a round about way there was no way to be certain of hacking at that time (about 1:36:00-1:41:00 in hearing). I find it incredibly annoying Johnson didn’t simply defer to information security experts about the possibility there may never be evidence even if there were hacks; it’s simply not within in his skill set or experience then or now to say with absolute certainty based on forensic audit there was no evidence of votes changed. Gathering that evidence never happened because federal and state laws do not provide adequately for standardized full forensic audits before, during, or after an election.
Rory Carroll, Guardian: 'I think leftism is a disorder': is this artist the rightwing Banksy?
The guerrilla art movement is usually associated with leftwing politics. Banksy targets capitalism, consumerism and inequality. Blek le Rat, the father of stencil graffiti, depicts oppression and resistance.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:46 PM on June 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Shepard Fairey gilded Barack Obama’s rise with the iconic “Hope” poster and now highlights the scapegoating of Muslims and the corporatisation of US politics.
In the Trump era, the right, however, has its own guerrilla artist: Sabo, a former US marine who works from an apartment-cum-studio in Los Angeles beneath a sign that says “Fuck Tibet”. Another says “Fuck peace”.
Under cover of darkness, he peppers public spaces in LA with images and slogans targeting liberals, whom he associates with “pot-smoking lazy bums” hostile to western values. He puts the same images and slogans on posters, T-shirts and pins which he sells from his website and at Republican party gatherings across the US.
“I think leftism is a mental disorder,” Sabo, 49, said in an interview at his home. “I truly believe I’m fighting the good fight.”
> Trump just announced his reëlection campaign's first major donor fundraising...for the 2020 election. On June 28th, 2017. [...] And of course: it's going to be at one of Trump's properties, his DC hotel, so he can make money personally off fundraising for his campaign
I didn't know I still had untapped reserves of disgust and revulsion. This petty man is treating the office of the Presidency as the cheapest of cheap grifts - another few dollars to add to his fortune. The only thing I can think of is that he's up to his eyeballs in debt to the Russian mafia and he thinks he's just been handed a golden payday before the markers get called.
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:47 PM on June 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
I didn't know I still had untapped reserves of disgust and revulsion. This petty man is treating the office of the Presidency as the cheapest of cheap grifts - another few dollars to add to his fortune. The only thing I can think of is that he's up to his eyeballs in debt to the Russian mafia and he thinks he's just been handed a golden payday before the markers get called.
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:47 PM on June 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
point taken -- retracted.
is there an accepted general term for genocidal attacks like the ones under discussion here? I can't even think of a good category name whatsoever for semi-spontaneously generated state-sanctioned (or state-willfully-overlooked) murderous mass outbursts of genocidal murder. it's the ugliest thing we do as people. how do I not know a word for it?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:48 PM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
is there an accepted general term for genocidal attacks like the ones under discussion here? I can't even think of a good category name whatsoever for semi-spontaneously generated state-sanctioned (or state-willfully-overlooked) murderous mass outbursts of genocidal murder. it's the ugliest thing we do as people. how do I not know a word for it?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:48 PM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
>“Fuck Tibet”
But - why? I understand that this person doesn't care about Tibet. Sure, why should he?No skin off his nose. But from there to actively "Fuck Tibet"? Is that just something that might wring out a few more liberal tears?
> “Fuck peace”
Okay, sure. Be careful what you wish for, is all.
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:50 PM on June 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
But - why? I understand that this person doesn't care about Tibet. Sure, why should he?No skin off his nose. But from there to actively "Fuck Tibet"? Is that just something that might wring out a few more liberal tears?
> “Fuck peace”
Okay, sure. Be careful what you wish for, is all.
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:50 PM on June 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
The Johnson quotes on AHCA are promising. Lets hope they are not simply McCainesque nothings. Does he have a history of making noises like this and then gladly marching over the cliff like a lemming?
posted by Justinian at 1:50 PM on June 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 1:50 PM on June 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
is there an accepted general term for genocidal attacks like the ones under discussion here? I can't even think of a good category name whatsoever for semi-spontaneously generated state-sanctioned (or state-willfully-overlooked) murderous mass outbursts of genocidal murder. it's the ugliest thing we do as people. how do I not know a word for it?
I think in the American context Lynching is pretty accurate
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:50 PM on June 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
I think in the American context Lynching is pretty accurate
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:50 PM on June 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Soooo there's some comment deletions going on, and for good reason.
but I just wanted to say that zarq said a thing that made me regret the thing that I said and I retracted it. there needs to be a good general word for the types of awful acts we were discussing, and it's not right to just take one of the specific words and treat it as general.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:51 PM on June 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
but I just wanted to say that zarq said a thing that made me regret the thing that I said and I retracted it. there needs to be a good general word for the types of awful acts we were discussing, and it's not right to just take one of the specific words and treat it as general.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:51 PM on June 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
Mod note: Ok, updated note, I've deleted a couple comments and reinstated one and maybe we've reached a resolution on this. But the point is if folks want to have a longer dedicated meta conversation about the use of the term 'pogrom' beyond the objection already stated in the thread above, MetaTalk is the place for that.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 1:51 PM on June 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 1:51 PM on June 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
I said here a long time back I didn't see how the abortion restrictions in the AHCA works with the Byrd rule. Since no-one ever seemed to bring this up on the teevee I guess I sorta assumed I didn't understand the process well enough. But it sounds like, no, it doesn't pass muster. That's good news. Well, not exactly good news... more like one less bit of terrible news among all the other terrible news?
posted by Justinian at 1:54 PM on June 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 1:54 PM on June 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
The Byrd rule will be drowned in its own Byrd bath the first time it gets in the way. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. It'll be the best. Believe me.
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:56 PM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:56 PM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Video: Trevor [Noah] talks to the audience about being stopped by police as a black man: "I feel the problem is, oftentimes in America, I feel the conversation gets caught up in racism as it pertains to black and white, but I don't believe that that is the conversation. I honestly don't believe that that is the conversation. I believe that the police force as a whole is trained in such a way that it creates a state racism that is different."
As Trump is on his way to Cedar Rapids for yet another rally right now, the Cedar Rapids Gazette has a page 1 editorial today: "The campaign is over. You won. Now is not the time to rally."
Since no-one ever seemed to bring this up on the teevee I guess I sorta assumed I didn't understand the process well enough.
They don't allow the kinds of people who know what the Byrd Rule is to go on TV. It's bad for ratings.
posted by zachlipton at 2:00 PM on June 21, 2017 [17 favorites]
As Trump is on his way to Cedar Rapids for yet another rally right now, the Cedar Rapids Gazette has a page 1 editorial today: "The campaign is over. You won. Now is not the time to rally."
Since no-one ever seemed to bring this up on the teevee I guess I sorta assumed I didn't understand the process well enough.
They don't allow the kinds of people who know what the Byrd Rule is to go on TV. It's bad for ratings.
posted by zachlipton at 2:00 PM on June 21, 2017 [17 favorites]
Ben Tarnoff, Guardian: How privatization could spell the end of democracy
But where will the money come from? This is the perennial question, posed whenever someone suggests raising the welfare state above a whisper. Fortunately, it has a simple answer. The United States is the richest country in the history of the world. It is so rich, in fact, that its richest people can afford to pour billions of dollars into a company such as Uber, which loses billions of dollars each year, in the hopes of getting just a little bit richer. In the face of such extravagance, diverting a modest portion of the prosperity we produce in common toward services that benefit everyone shouldn’t be controversial. It’s a small price to pay for making democracy mean more than a hollow slogan, or a sick joke.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:01 PM on June 21, 2017 [32 favorites]
I took a couple of minutes to ResistBot to my senior senator, Ron Johnson. Using the same techniques as I used with my toddlers to encourage good behavior, I'm hoping to flatter him into a firm "no" vote. Too bad I can't use Cheerios with him too.
posted by altopower at 2:02 PM on June 21, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by altopower at 2:02 PM on June 21, 2017 [14 favorites]
2018 is the big prize. It sucks losing in GA-6 and everywhere else in these special elections, but these are big time red districts. I also keep in mind that in places like NC, the map has been ordered re-drawn by the courts, likely resulting in seat pickups here and there, reducing the amount of seats needed to flip the house.
It's just the "waiting" part that sucks.
posted by azpenguin at 2:04 PM on June 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
It's just the "waiting" part that sucks.
posted by azpenguin at 2:04 PM on June 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
Felix Sater's whole tangled web of connections reminds me of something I said some time ago: it seems not entirely outside the realm of possibility that at some point Donald Trump was an FBI informant as part of an investigation into mob money, and that a nonzero number of his mobbed-up deals were made at their behest.
Presumably getting him in trouble for these particular deals would be hard, and surely Mueller, by way of Comey, would know about any deals which are hiding this sort of unpleasant revelation, so since he's still looking there must be real dirt that isn't tied to the FBI. But still, it seemed like a possibility, and frankly Sater seemed like he'd be mixed up in exactly that sort of thing.
posted by jackbishop at 2:09 PM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Presumably getting him in trouble for these particular deals would be hard, and surely Mueller, by way of Comey, would know about any deals which are hiding this sort of unpleasant revelation, so since he's still looking there must be real dirt that isn't tied to the FBI. But still, it seemed like a possibility, and frankly Sater seemed like he'd be mixed up in exactly that sort of thing.
posted by jackbishop at 2:09 PM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's just the "waiting" part that sucks.
Tom Petty's first draft.
posted by Faint of Butt at 2:16 PM on June 21, 2017 [22 favorites]
Tom Petty's first draft.
posted by Faint of Butt at 2:16 PM on June 21, 2017 [22 favorites]
It's just the "waiting" part that sucks.
Tom Petty's first draft.
Don't be absurd. Everyone knows that Tom waits for no man.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:25 PM on June 21, 2017 [14 favorites]
Tom Petty's first draft.
Don't be absurd. Everyone knows that Tom waits for no man.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:25 PM on June 21, 2017 [14 favorites]
Felix Sater's whole tangled web of connections reminds me of something I said some time ago: it seems not entirely outside the realm of possibility that at some point Donald Trump was an FBI informant as part of an investigation into mob money, and that a nonzero number of his mobbed-up deals were made at their behest.
I wondered about this possibility too, but I'm convinced he'd have been shouting this all over Twitter if it were the case. Hell, I wouldn't put it past him to blow an ongoing investigation on Twitter if he were involved.
posted by jason_steakums at 2:27 PM on June 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
I wondered about this possibility too, but I'm convinced he'd have been shouting this all over Twitter if it were the case. Hell, I wouldn't put it past him to blow an ongoing investigation on Twitter if he were involved.
posted by jason_steakums at 2:27 PM on June 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
Through the Cold War there was even a specially trained team of park rangers in Philadelphia whose job it was to evacuate the Liberty Bell in the event of a Soviet threat.
- NPR: In The Event Of Attack, Here's How The Government Plans 'To Save Itself'
It turns out Park Rangers have been at this for a long time!
posted by srboisvert at 2:28 PM on June 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
- NPR: In The Event Of Attack, Here's How The Government Plans 'To Save Itself'
It turns out Park Rangers have been at this for a long time!
posted by srboisvert at 2:28 PM on June 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
♫ Last dance with A-C-A
One more vote to loose the reins
I feel AHCA creepin' in and I'm
tired of these coverage gains
posted by 0xFCAF at 2:31 PM on June 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
One more vote to loose the reins
I feel AHCA creepin' in and I'm
tired of these coverage gains
posted by 0xFCAF at 2:31 PM on June 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
Onion: Panicking Mitch McConnell Shoves Entire Senate Healthcare Bill Into Mouth As Democrat Walks Past
In its entirety:
In its entirety:
WASHINGTON—Quickly crumpling up all 500 pages of the legislation upon hearing footsteps in the hallway, sources reported Tuesday that a panicked Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell shoved the entire Senate healthcare bill in his mouth as a Democratic senator walked past. According to witnesses, McConnell became visibly flustered upon realizing there was no place to hide from the Democratic colleague approaching his doorway and began ripping wads of documents from a binder and cramming them through his open jaws as rapidly as possible. Asked about the location of an upcoming meeting, McConnell, cheeks distended to many times their original size, reportedly grunted several times and gestured toward a nearby conference room. At press time, McConnell had spit out the massive clump of saliva-coated, half-chewed papers, which, while largely illegible, would reportedly insure 10 million more people than the original.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:34 PM on June 21, 2017 [27 favorites]
A draft leaked to the Washington Post, though a lot still seems up in the air: Senate health-care draft repeals Obamacare taxes, provides bigger subsidies for low-income Americans than House bill. Don't let that headline fool you though, it's misleading as hell since the Senate bill would cut Medicaid even more harshly than the House bill, not to mention the stupidity of comparing to the House bill instead of existing law.
Reports I've seen say that they're changing the premium credits to cut off people making 350-400% of the poverty line and that the "benchmark plan" that determines how much of a credit you get will be set to just 58% of the actuarial value of the plans. The result of all of this is that Medicaid is left to die over time, premiums will rise for everyone receiving subsidies, but the rich get a bunch of tax cuts.
posted by zachlipton at 2:35 PM on June 21, 2017 [17 favorites]
Reports I've seen say that they're changing the premium credits to cut off people making 350-400% of the poverty line and that the "benchmark plan" that determines how much of a credit you get will be set to just 58% of the actuarial value of the plans. The result of all of this is that Medicaid is left to die over time, premiums will rise for everyone receiving subsidies, but the rich get a bunch of tax cuts.
posted by zachlipton at 2:35 PM on June 21, 2017 [17 favorites]
My favorite comment of the moment;
@jesseberney
If every candidate were exactly like I wanted them to be and did exactly what I wanted we would win every race because I know everything
EOM, no need to click, all that.
posted by bongo_x at 2:41 PM on June 21, 2017 [26 favorites]
@jesseberney
If every candidate were exactly like I wanted them to be and did exactly what I wanted we would win every race because I know everything
EOM, no need to click, all that.
posted by bongo_x at 2:41 PM on June 21, 2017 [26 favorites]
CNN: Progressives already thought Democrats were aimless. The special election wipeout might prove their point
Hmm, four close races much tighter than expected are a wipeout... Funny how Republicans and pundits never mention the special election in CA-34 where Dems won and the R candidate got 3.8% of the vote. 6 Ds and a Green beat him. Now that seems like a wipeout.
Seems completely fucking fair that MT, KS, SC and GA count as big wins for Rs, but CA gets ignored for us. 1-4, not 0-4. And again, Rs lost all 7 special elections in 2009/10, including a seat they had previously easily held, and then picked up 63 seats in the 2010 midterms.
posted by chris24 at 2:44 PM on June 21, 2017 [26 favorites]
Hmm, four close races much tighter than expected are a wipeout... Funny how Republicans and pundits never mention the special election in CA-34 where Dems won and the R candidate got 3.8% of the vote. 6 Ds and a Green beat him. Now that seems like a wipeout.
Seems completely fucking fair that MT, KS, SC and GA count as big wins for Rs, but CA gets ignored for us. 1-4, not 0-4. And again, Rs lost all 7 special elections in 2009/10, including a seat they had previously easily held, and then picked up 63 seats in the 2010 midterms.
posted by chris24 at 2:44 PM on June 21, 2017 [26 favorites]
> If every candidate were exactly like I wanted them to be and did exactly what I wanted we would win every race because I know everything
Matt Yglesias: The Pundit’s Fallacy
Matt Yglesias: The Pundit’s Fallacy
So here it goes: The pundit’s fallacy is that belief that what a politician needs to do to improve his or her political standing is do what the pundit wants substantively. So progressive populists think that Barack Obama would have higher approval ratings if he acted more like Ed Schultz while establishmentarian centrists think his ratings would go up if he acted more like David Broder.posted by tonycpsu at 2:45 PM on June 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
So progressive populists think that Barack Obama would have higher approval ratings if he acted more like Ed Schultz
Obama should work for Russia Today? Oh Ed...
posted by bongo_x at 3:00 PM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Obama should work for Russia Today? Oh Ed...
posted by bongo_x at 3:00 PM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Genuine question: is it within scope in these election threads to bring up how the disruption that is the Trump administration is allowing state legislatures to push unbelievably disgusting bills such as SB 5 in Missouri? I mean, it seems on topic for discussions of elected officials and the impact of the Trump regime on the country, but OTOH it's not about elections specifically, so I don't know anymore.
It's depressing to see what conservatives are doing, it's hard to know how to help, and I don't trust my judgement anymore.
posted by StrawberryPie at 3:07 PM on June 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
It's depressing to see what conservatives are doing, it's hard to know how to help, and I don't trust my judgement anymore.
posted by StrawberryPie at 3:07 PM on June 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
> But - why? I understand that this person doesn't care about Tibet. Sure, why should he?No skin off his nose. But from there to actively "Fuck Tibet"? Is that just something that might wring out a few more liberal tears?
"Gotta nuke somethin'!"
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:17 PM on June 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
"Gotta nuke somethin'!"
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:17 PM on June 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
BuzzFeed: At Justice Department Pride Event, LGBT Employees Plan To Honor Transgender Student: "DOJ Pride — the Justice Department's group for LGBT employees and allies — plans to give its community service award to Gavin Grimm, the transgender student challenging his high school's bathroom policy. Earlier this year, Attorney General Jeff Sessions rescinded the pro-transgender guidance that had helped Grimm's case."
Seung Min Kim (Politico) observes that it's been two weeks and Trump still hasn't actually submitted the nomination for Chris Wray to the Senate.
posted by zachlipton at 3:22 PM on June 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
Seung Min Kim (Politico) observes that it's been two weeks and Trump still hasn't actually submitted the nomination for Chris Wray to the Senate.
posted by zachlipton at 3:22 PM on June 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
Felix Sater's whole tangled web of connections reminds me of something I said some time ago: it seems not entirely outside the realm of possibility that at some point Donald Trump was an FBI informant as part of an investigation into mob money, and that a nonzero number of his mobbed-up deals were made at their behest.
Mueller would know about Felix Sater because Mueller was the head of the FBI when Sater was an informant. Sater was sentenced in 2009 for the 1998 stock fraud conviction that led him to become an FBI informant, Mueller was director from 2001 to 2013. His cooperation wasn't penny ante stuff, Mueller may well have been briefed on it. Sater's criminal records were sealed for 10 years by Loretta Lynch who was then the US Attorney for the Eastern District of New York, she was asked about this in her AG confirmation hearing.
The worst case scenario is a White Bulger situation where the FBI turned a blind eye to Sater and Trump's misdeeds in order to secure other prosecutions and now Mueller is forced to steer far clear of known corruption to protect the reputation of the FBI.
posted by peeedro at 3:34 PM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Mueller would know about Felix Sater because Mueller was the head of the FBI when Sater was an informant. Sater was sentenced in 2009 for the 1998 stock fraud conviction that led him to become an FBI informant, Mueller was director from 2001 to 2013. His cooperation wasn't penny ante stuff, Mueller may well have been briefed on it. Sater's criminal records were sealed for 10 years by Loretta Lynch who was then the US Attorney for the Eastern District of New York, she was asked about this in her AG confirmation hearing.
The worst case scenario is a White Bulger situation where the FBI turned a blind eye to Sater and Trump's misdeeds in order to secure other prosecutions and now Mueller is forced to steer far clear of known corruption to protect the reputation of the FBI.
posted by peeedro at 3:34 PM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Montana Dems Get Gianforte New Suit for First Day in Congress
Everyone knows you need plenty of suits to work on Capitol Hill. While millionaire Gianforte can certainly afford his own, we know he has a lot of legal fees to pay. So, we thought we’d help him out and get him started by mailing a new suit to his office in the Longworth House Office Building in Washington. An orange jumpsuit, that is.posted by kirkaracha at 3:59 PM on June 21, 2017 [25 favorites]
Hmm, four close races much tighter than expected are a wipeout... Funny how Republicans and pundits never mention the special election in CA-34 where Dems won and the R candidate got 3.8% of the vote. 6 Ds and a Green beat him. Now that seems like a wipeout.
The better indication of whether there's a real groundswell of Democratic support might be here in Virginia, in the governor's race, but even more in the House of Delegates this year. Republicans currently hold a 66/100 seat majority, but there's been a surge of Indivisible-backed, in many cases women candidates challenging in nearly every district. If Democrats can win a large influx of new seats in a gerrymandered Southern state, now we're talking about something real. And trust me there's a lot of work going into these races from NoVa organizers, but it's not just Obama administration transplants, there's support across the state from longtime resident activists and newly activated people alike. And most of these delegate races will be local, yes with national overtones, but not national spectacles like GA6. The trend in these specials has been okay-to-good, but look to Virginia if we're going to take the next step.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:10 PM on June 21, 2017 [15 favorites]
The better indication of whether there's a real groundswell of Democratic support might be here in Virginia, in the governor's race, but even more in the House of Delegates this year. Republicans currently hold a 66/100 seat majority, but there's been a surge of Indivisible-backed, in many cases women candidates challenging in nearly every district. If Democrats can win a large influx of new seats in a gerrymandered Southern state, now we're talking about something real. And trust me there's a lot of work going into these races from NoVa organizers, but it's not just Obama administration transplants, there's support across the state from longtime resident activists and newly activated people alike. And most of these delegate races will be local, yes with national overtones, but not national spectacles like GA6. The trend in these specials has been okay-to-good, but look to Virginia if we're going to take the next step.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:10 PM on June 21, 2017 [15 favorites]
Chuck Todd was talking like this was THE END OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. He brought on the Cook Report guy to point out how all these special elections were big swings towards the Democrats and that's what matters for the midterms etc and Todd characterized it as possibly the smallest of silver linings in the giant dark cloud.
The takeaway? Fuck chuck todd.
posted by Justinian at 4:13 PM on June 21, 2017 [21 favorites]
The takeaway? Fuck chuck todd.
posted by Justinian at 4:13 PM on June 21, 2017 [21 favorites]
There are Democratic constituencies throughout the country who agree with Republicans on certain issues.
Well, that assumes good faith on the part of the GOP. I would say that there are Democratic constituencies that agree with GOP professed ideals, but those ideals are a smokescreen for policies that the Democratic constituencies would not endorse. For example, whenever the GOP talks of fiscal responsibility and cost-cutting, it's just code for screwing the poor and laying off government workers. Or preserving marriage and defending religion is a cover for discriminating against gays.
The worst case scenario is a White Bulger situation where the FBI turned a blind eye to Sater and Trump's misdeeds in order to secure other prosecutions and now Mueller is forced to steer far clear of known corruption to protect the reputation of the FBI.
That hadn't occurred to me. In fact, bringing in Mueller may have been done with the intent of derailing that part of the investigation.
posted by Mental Wimp at 4:16 PM on June 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Well, that assumes good faith on the part of the GOP. I would say that there are Democratic constituencies that agree with GOP professed ideals, but those ideals are a smokescreen for policies that the Democratic constituencies would not endorse. For example, whenever the GOP talks of fiscal responsibility and cost-cutting, it's just code for screwing the poor and laying off government workers. Or preserving marriage and defending religion is a cover for discriminating against gays.
The worst case scenario is a White Bulger situation where the FBI turned a blind eye to Sater and Trump's misdeeds in order to secure other prosecutions and now Mueller is forced to steer far clear of known corruption to protect the reputation of the FBI.
That hadn't occurred to me. In fact, bringing in Mueller may have been done with the intent of derailing that part of the investigation.
posted by Mental Wimp at 4:16 PM on June 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
chuck todd is a comcast exec's version of what a smart person sounds like. but i mostly just wanted to pipe in to mention how much i hate his goatee thing. and goatees are fine, just chuck todd's goatee is laughable.
posted by localhuman at 4:37 PM on June 21, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by localhuman at 4:37 PM on June 21, 2017 [8 favorites]
i'm watching cnn right now. they're waiting for trump to have one of his campaign style rallies. i say let 'em have it. they're gloating. let them soak in it...
...while the resistance keeps working. we got so close in a super-red district. let them think they won.
posted by waitangi at 4:41 PM on June 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
...while the resistance keeps working. we got so close in a super-red district. let them think they won.
posted by waitangi at 4:41 PM on June 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
Chuck Todd was talking like this was THE END OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY
Yeah, because sensationalizing/dramatizing the shit out of everything is what sells their copy. The MSM is really a huge problem in this whole equation, because their interests do not even remotely align with the common good.
posted by Brak at 4:45 PM on June 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
Yeah, because sensationalizing/dramatizing the shit out of everything is what sells their copy. The MSM is really a huge problem in this whole equation, because their interests do not even remotely align with the common good.
posted by Brak at 4:45 PM on June 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
And yet it has to be confessed that, at least so far, the Whitewater scandal was far more substantive than the Russia-collusion scandal now gripping Washington.
you'd have to be an actual factual dumbshit to think this, so yeah, David Brooks
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:45 PM on June 21, 2017 [11 favorites]
you'd have to be an actual factual dumbshit to think this, so yeah, David Brooks
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:45 PM on June 21, 2017 [11 favorites]
I want to thank all the MeFites who have been the calm voice of reason. The narrow losses in SC and GA were victories, and we need to take heart from them and keep fighting.
Special thanks to whoever it was that said "I'll stop fighting when I'm dead." Amen!
posted by phliar at 4:49 PM on June 21, 2017 [19 favorites]
Special thanks to whoever it was that said "I'll stop fighting when I'm dead." Amen!
posted by phliar at 4:49 PM on June 21, 2017 [19 favorites]
So apparently the chair of the Iowa GOP is going on a total red-faced, screaming tirade at the Trump rally. He's going off on the usual suspects: the Democrats and the press. (The Cedar Rapids Gazette published a front page editorial today telling Trump to stop campaigning and instead concentrate on doing his job. Republicans aren't happy.) But he's also going off, for some reason, against Ben Sasse, whom he is calling sanctimonious and anti-Trump and whom he said should stay on his side of the river that divides Nebraska and Iowa.
Guess who is headlining the Central Iowa GOP fundraising dinner next month? That would be Ben Sasse. That's going to be interesting.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:52 PM on June 21, 2017 [29 favorites]
Guess who is headlining the Central Iowa GOP fundraising dinner next month? That would be Ben Sasse. That's going to be interesting.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:52 PM on June 21, 2017 [29 favorites]
Seung Min Kim (Politico) observes that it's been two weeks and Trump still hasn't actually submitted the nomination for Chris Wray to the Senate.
...wait what? I really don't know what to make of their incompetence in nominations, it's generally a good thing that there's less Trump appointees...but it's pretty fuckin bad that large swaths of the government are right now essentially nonfunctional for going on 6 months. And I don't know if it's intentional because they're trying to run everything through Bannon, Miller and Kushner as part of some alt-right shadow-nazi unconfirmed government, which is obviously impossible, or because Trump is that lazy, and everyone around him is that incompetent/also lazy.
The only area they're keeping pace is with the judiciary, but that's all outsourced to the Federalist Society, who have had running lists prepared for decades ready for any Republican administration. Unfortunately that's also where they can do the most damage for the longest term.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:57 PM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
...wait what? I really don't know what to make of their incompetence in nominations, it's generally a good thing that there's less Trump appointees...but it's pretty fuckin bad that large swaths of the government are right now essentially nonfunctional for going on 6 months. And I don't know if it's intentional because they're trying to run everything through Bannon, Miller and Kushner as part of some alt-right shadow-nazi unconfirmed government, which is obviously impossible, or because Trump is that lazy, and everyone around him is that incompetent/also lazy.
The only area they're keeping pace is with the judiciary, but that's all outsourced to the Federalist Society, who have had running lists prepared for decades ready for any Republican administration. Unfortunately that's also where they can do the most damage for the longest term.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:57 PM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Special thanks to whoever it was that said "I'll stop fighting when I'm dead." Amen!
That was Secret Life of Gravy. I have it bookmarked for whenever I need a pep talk.
Honestly, I can't even imagine what this would be like without MeFi in my corner. You all bring me comfort every day.
posted by Brak at 5:09 PM on June 21, 2017 [30 favorites]
That was Secret Life of Gravy. I have it bookmarked for whenever I need a pep talk.
Honestly, I can't even imagine what this would be like without MeFi in my corner. You all bring me comfort every day.
posted by Brak at 5:09 PM on June 21, 2017 [30 favorites]
it seems not entirely outside the realm of possibility that at some point Donald Trump was an FBI informant as part of an investigation into mob money, and that a nonzero number of his mobbed-up deals were made at their behest.
The FBI employing Trump in a sensitive investigation like that is highly unlikely, not least because Trump has always been utterly self-serving and indiscreet. It appears from an FOIA request, however, that back in 1981 Trump tried to set up a cooperative relationship with the Bureau when he was first exploring building his own casino in Atlantic City. He proposed providing full disclosure during construction and placing undercover agents at his casino, but it seems he blew this deal by bragging to other parties about his connections to the Bureau before it was finalized. My guess is that the FBI might have accepted tips from Trump but would have been reluctant to involve him in their investigations, much less their undercover operations.
The equation changes, however, when Felix Sater comes into the picture in late 1998 with his securities fraud arrest and then enters Trump's orbit in 2003. His work as an informant/intelligence source for the FBI/CIA overlaps with his partnership with Trump through the Bayrock Group - he wasn't formally sentenced in his plea deal until 2009, the year before he left Bayrock and went to work for the Trump Organization full time. That's several years of Sater simultaneously grassing on La Cosa Nostra to the Feds while potentially linking up Trump with mafiya money-laundering for their shady real estate projects. If the FBI turned a blind eye to the latter in order to secure the former, Sater and Trump could put them in an embarrassing position.
posted by Doktor Zed at 5:09 PM on June 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
The FBI employing Trump in a sensitive investigation like that is highly unlikely, not least because Trump has always been utterly self-serving and indiscreet. It appears from an FOIA request, however, that back in 1981 Trump tried to set up a cooperative relationship with the Bureau when he was first exploring building his own casino in Atlantic City. He proposed providing full disclosure during construction and placing undercover agents at his casino, but it seems he blew this deal by bragging to other parties about his connections to the Bureau before it was finalized. My guess is that the FBI might have accepted tips from Trump but would have been reluctant to involve him in their investigations, much less their undercover operations.
The equation changes, however, when Felix Sater comes into the picture in late 1998 with his securities fraud arrest and then enters Trump's orbit in 2003. His work as an informant/intelligence source for the FBI/CIA overlaps with his partnership with Trump through the Bayrock Group - he wasn't formally sentenced in his plea deal until 2009, the year before he left Bayrock and went to work for the Trump Organization full time. That's several years of Sater simultaneously grassing on La Cosa Nostra to the Feds while potentially linking up Trump with mafiya money-laundering for their shady real estate projects. If the FBI turned a blind eye to the latter in order to secure the former, Sater and Trump could put them in an embarrassing position.
posted by Doktor Zed at 5:09 PM on June 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
Montana Dems Get Gianforte New Suit for First Day in Congress
Everyone knows you need plenty of suits to work on Capitol Hill. While millionaire Gianforte can certainly afford his own, we know he has a lot of legal fees to pay. So, we thought we’d help him out and get him started by mailing a new suit to his office in the Longworth House Office Building in Washington. An orange jumpsuit, that is.
I kinda see this as some of what people are saying Dems should/should not take out of the Repub playbook. It instantly turn me off, and I am very blue. If it's just a silly thing that is on a website, I am slightly more okay with it. If it's something that actually happened... either way, it's fuel for the fire of "liberal animosity" or whatever the term being thrown around is.
This is much more damning, and I believe the Montana Dems lose the message when they throw that other thing up.
Semi-related: Count me on the side that say we did a damn fine job yesterday. Almost winning in districts that were predictably red for decades and won by 10-20+ within the last 6 years is tremendous. 2016 got me to donate for the first time ever and I have also now donated to Ossoff and others because government needs to remember they serve us, amongst other reasons.
Just had a talk with my wife who admitted she is a "lazy" voter ("I used to only vote when I thought it would matter"), but she has also become engaged in politics again, as she (and I and a lot of us, really) are realizing voting in everything matters.
I'm not saying either of us is running for dog-catcher yet. But, we will be voting for dog-catcher.
(I will run for p-snatcher-catcher if p-snatcher is re-elected and if that becomes an office.)
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 5:10 PM on June 21, 2017 [8 favorites]
Everyone knows you need plenty of suits to work on Capitol Hill. While millionaire Gianforte can certainly afford his own, we know he has a lot of legal fees to pay. So, we thought we’d help him out and get him started by mailing a new suit to his office in the Longworth House Office Building in Washington. An orange jumpsuit, that is.
I kinda see this as some of what people are saying Dems should/should not take out of the Repub playbook. It instantly turn me off, and I am very blue. If it's just a silly thing that is on a website, I am slightly more okay with it. If it's something that actually happened... either way, it's fuel for the fire of "liberal animosity" or whatever the term being thrown around is.
This is much more damning, and I believe the Montana Dems lose the message when they throw that other thing up.
Semi-related: Count me on the side that say we did a damn fine job yesterday. Almost winning in districts that were predictably red for decades and won by 10-20+ within the last 6 years is tremendous. 2016 got me to donate for the first time ever and I have also now donated to Ossoff and others because government needs to remember they serve us, amongst other reasons.
Just had a talk with my wife who admitted she is a "lazy" voter ("I used to only vote when I thought it would matter"), but she has also become engaged in politics again, as she (and I and a lot of us, really) are realizing voting in everything matters.
I'm not saying either of us is running for dog-catcher yet. But, we will be voting for dog-catcher.
(I will run for p-snatcher-catcher if p-snatcher is re-elected and if that becomes an office.)
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 5:10 PM on June 21, 2017 [8 favorites]
I checked out the live stream of the Trump rally, and they're playing "Keep on Rocking in the Free World" over the PA. These people are literally so stupid that I don't understand how they breathe.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:20 PM on June 21, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:20 PM on June 21, 2017 [18 favorites]
2016 DNC speaker Michael Bloomberg says America should 'get behind' Trump because 'the public has spoken'
Also a businessman and philanthropist, Bloomberg said Americans should direct their energy toward changing the outcome of the next election rather than fighting the current administration.posted by indubitable at 5:21 PM on June 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Daily Beast: FBI Fired Sebastian Gorka for Anti-Muslim Diatribes
NYT/Upshot—Margot Sanger-Katz: G.O.P. Health Plan Is Really a Rollback of Medicaid
posted by zachlipton at 5:21 PM on June 21, 2017 [33 favorites]
The inflammatory pundit Sebastian Gorka worked for the FBI while he was a paid consultant to Donald Trump’s 2016 campaign, lecturing bureau employees on counterterrorism issues.The Root/Jason Johnson: ‘That White Boy ’Bout to Lose’: The Inescapable Racial Politics of the Ga. 6th Special Election. There's a lot of good stuff in here, and it's worth reading in its entirety, especially for the aside about SC-05, where Johnson says the Democratic Party was "some experimental get-out-the-vote strategies for getting out the African-American vote" that seems to have been super-effective. Would love to know more about these efforts if anybody knows about them.
Until the FBI terminated Gorka for his over-the-top Islamophobic rhetoric.
...
Gorka told attendees at the Joint Terrorism Operations Course, an introductory-level class for participants in the FBI’s Joint Terrorism Task Forces, that all Muslims adhere to sharia law, which he said is in conflict with the U.S. constitution and American democratic values. Officials familiar with his lecture said Gorka taught law-enforcement officials there is no such thing as mainstream Muslims—only those radicalized and those soon to be radicalized.
The following month, a senior FBI official assured outraged and embarrassed colleagues that the bureau would no longer use Gorka for any subsequent lectures or instructions, according to documents reviewed by The Daily Beast.
NYT/Upshot—Margot Sanger-Katz: G.O.P. Health Plan Is Really a Rollback of Medicaid
The bill, of course, would modify changes to the health system brought by the Affordable Care Act. But it would also permanently restructure Medicaid, which covers tens of millions of poor or disabled Americans, including millions who are living in nursing homes with conditions like Alzheimer’s or the aftereffects of a stroke.And Brian Beutler nails it on why health care hasn't gotten the kind of coverage it deserves, despite the many talented reporters chasing the story: The Media Bias Toward “New” News Helped the GOP Hide Its Secret Health Care Plan
“This is the most consequential change in 50 years for low-income people’s health care,” said Joan Alker, the executive director of the Center for Children and Families at Georgetown University. “This is a massive change that has hardly been discussed.”
HuffPost reporter Jeff Young wrote last week that “as important as the legislation’s details will turn out out to be, there’s a simple, fundamental, incontrovertible fact about whatever the Senate health care reform bill winds up looking like: The purpose of this bill is to dramatically scale back the safety net so wealthy people and health care companies can get a massive tax cut.”Trump is now on stage promising "a plan with heart." I guess he hasn't read the bill either.
This is the throughline of the entire, horrifying Obamacare repeal story, and almost without exception, it was omitted from all the places most Americans get their news—television, print, and online front pages—until past few days.
...
I think this misdiagnoses the source of the challenge and the solution to it. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell didn’t lock down the bill-writing process in order to block liberals from going over the bill with a fine-tooth comb. His chief insight was in recognizing a bias—not among liberals, but within the news industry—toward what you might call “new news.” Things we didn’t know before, but do know now. It is that bias, more than anything else, that has brought us to the brink of living under a law that nobody on the planet has seen but that will uninsure millions to pay for millionaire tax cuts.
...
But it would be better in the long run for the news industry to migrate toward a more nuanced standard of newsworthiness that doesn’t cede all agenda-setting power to people who can commandeer front pages with misleading information just because it’s new, or escape scrutiny for moral crimes whenever they want to, simply by going dark.
posted by zachlipton at 5:21 PM on June 21, 2017 [33 favorites]
Nate Cohn looked at the numbers for GA-06. Turnout was stronger in Republican leaning areas than in Democratic leaning areas. That is the problem in a nutshell; there is an almost linear relationship between high rates of turnout and likelihood to vote R, and low rates of turnout and likelihood to vote D.
(this doesn't hold for one group; black woman, who VOTE like nobody's business. It's awesome.)
posted by Justinian at 5:29 PM on June 21, 2017 [31 favorites]
(this doesn't hold for one group; black woman, who VOTE like nobody's business. It's awesome.)
posted by Justinian at 5:29 PM on June 21, 2017 [31 favorites]
Bloomberg said that opposing a president just because of one's alignment with another party is the wrong approach.
Thanks for clarifying, Mike. Because I have approximately 962,637 reasons other than party affiliation to oppose the president. I'll just carry on then, thanks.
posted by Brak at 5:31 PM on June 21, 2017 [19 favorites]
Thanks for clarifying, Mike. Because I have approximately 962,637 reasons other than party affiliation to oppose the president. I'll just carry on then, thanks.
posted by Brak at 5:31 PM on June 21, 2017 [19 favorites]
His chief insight was in recognizing a bias—not among liberals, but within the news industry—toward what you might call “new news.” Things we didn’t know before, but do know now. It is that bias, more than anything else, that has brought us to the brink...
When I first watched the movie, Broadcast News, I didn't really appreciate it's message. But to be useful to our democracy the news should cover what's important. However, it tends instead to cover what is "novel".
posted by puddledork at 5:38 PM on June 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
When I first watched the movie, Broadcast News, I didn't really appreciate it's message. But to be useful to our democracy the news should cover what's important. However, it tends instead to cover what is "novel".
posted by puddledork at 5:38 PM on June 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Bloomberg said that opposing a president just because of one's alignment with another party is the wrong approach.
can i oppose him because he's a fucking idiot? pleeeeeze?
posted by pyramid termite at 5:38 PM on June 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
can i oppose him because he's a fucking idiot? pleeeeeze?
posted by pyramid termite at 5:38 PM on June 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
and now Mueller is forced to steer far clear of known corruption to protect the reputation of the FBI.
oh he is forced to do nothing of the kind. is he? I mean not legally, he can't be, can he? Or can he? Protecting the reputation of the FBI due to its own past actions at the expense of protecting the integrity of the FBI and the whole Justice Department in the present day right this second is not a good trade. and the reputation (and integrity) of the White House and all who dwell therein ought to be of paramount concern to him as well, as long as he's investigating. I have a hard time imagining other prosecutions that need to be protected because they are/were more important than prosecuting people such as Donald Trump and his associates, such as.
if my ignorance of these matters is so vast that it would be more trouble than it's worth to explain it to me, so be it. but whose convictions could it possibly be more important to secure or keep secure than the potential convictions of the people he's investigating right now? I understand that if this speculation is correct, it could cause a terrible mess, but I don't understand how that wouldn't be well worth it and obviously so. like there shouldn't be a question for any honest person, which Mueller is supposed to be. can't really imagine information getting out that would get more people killed than not providing all the information on Trump et al.'s crimes would.
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:43 PM on June 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
oh he is forced to do nothing of the kind. is he? I mean not legally, he can't be, can he? Or can he? Protecting the reputation of the FBI due to its own past actions at the expense of protecting the integrity of the FBI and the whole Justice Department in the present day right this second is not a good trade. and the reputation (and integrity) of the White House and all who dwell therein ought to be of paramount concern to him as well, as long as he's investigating. I have a hard time imagining other prosecutions that need to be protected because they are/were more important than prosecuting people such as Donald Trump and his associates, such as.
if my ignorance of these matters is so vast that it would be more trouble than it's worth to explain it to me, so be it. but whose convictions could it possibly be more important to secure or keep secure than the potential convictions of the people he's investigating right now? I understand that if this speculation is correct, it could cause a terrible mess, but I don't understand how that wouldn't be well worth it and obviously so. like there shouldn't be a question for any honest person, which Mueller is supposed to be. can't really imagine information getting out that would get more people killed than not providing all the information on Trump et al.'s crimes would.
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:43 PM on June 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
Bloomberg said that opposing a president just because of one's alignment with another party is the wrong approach.
When all the vaguely boomer morons who think that the "office of the presidency" is some kind of sacred holy thing die and we give up on that bullshit it will be a great benefit to our democracy. It's an anomaly anyway, nobody paid much mind about the great dignity and honor we owe to the hallowed office of the presidency except for like, the period from FDR to Nixon. Before then and now, we reserved the right to point out shithead presidents as the mere shithead humans they were and are.
posted by dis_integration at 5:53 PM on June 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
When all the vaguely boomer morons who think that the "office of the presidency" is some kind of sacred holy thing die and we give up on that bullshit it will be a great benefit to our democracy. It's an anomaly anyway, nobody paid much mind about the great dignity and honor we owe to the hallowed office of the presidency except for like, the period from FDR to Nixon. Before then and now, we reserved the right to point out shithead presidents as the mere shithead humans they were and are.
posted by dis_integration at 5:53 PM on June 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
Right, and look how well their administrations turned out. They won elections, but they couldn't actually accomplish anything approaching a productive agenda...
Look, I know this is a few hours ago now but I want to put out there that the Clinton and Obama administrations were both fucking awesome on a policy level and I would even go further to say that almost everything good that our Federal government has done for the last 30 years happened during one of those administrations. I freely acknowledge that both administrations were incredibly flawed in important ways, but I stand by that evaluation.
Clinton raised taxes on the rich, cut taxes on low income families, and balanced the budget. He signed the FMLA and the Brady Bill gun control law. Obama signed the ACA after working with congressional dems to pass it, and regardless of what happens to it in the coming months and years it helped millions of people access healthcare for the past 7 years or so. He implemented DACA and the stimulus bill that may well have kept us out of the second great depression.
Between the two of them, they are responsible for literally all of the women and non-Christians on the Supreme Court.
I feel like the "Clinton and Obama administrations sucked" thing is like the retrospective version of democratic defeatism. No they did not. Democratic administrations implement better policies. Life on the ground is better under Democratic administrations. Full stop. This is why we need to fight to achieve more Democratic administrations!
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 5:56 PM on June 21, 2017 [133 favorites]
Look, I know this is a few hours ago now but I want to put out there that the Clinton and Obama administrations were both fucking awesome on a policy level and I would even go further to say that almost everything good that our Federal government has done for the last 30 years happened during one of those administrations. I freely acknowledge that both administrations were incredibly flawed in important ways, but I stand by that evaluation.
Clinton raised taxes on the rich, cut taxes on low income families, and balanced the budget. He signed the FMLA and the Brady Bill gun control law. Obama signed the ACA after working with congressional dems to pass it, and regardless of what happens to it in the coming months and years it helped millions of people access healthcare for the past 7 years or so. He implemented DACA and the stimulus bill that may well have kept us out of the second great depression.
Between the two of them, they are responsible for literally all of the women and non-Christians on the Supreme Court.
I feel like the "Clinton and Obama administrations sucked" thing is like the retrospective version of democratic defeatism. No they did not. Democratic administrations implement better policies. Life on the ground is better under Democratic administrations. Full stop. This is why we need to fight to achieve more Democratic administrations!
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 5:56 PM on June 21, 2017 [133 favorites]
Well, with the exception of Sandra Day O'Connor. But that being said, the point stands.
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:05 PM on June 21, 2017
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:05 PM on June 21, 2017
Well, with the exception of Sandra Day O'Connor
She's not currently on the Court, so it is, strictly speaking, a correct statement.
posted by jedicus at 6:10 PM on June 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
She's not currently on the Court, so it is, strictly speaking, a correct statement.
posted by jedicus at 6:10 PM on June 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
The main news from Trump's rambling rally in Iowa is that he says they're going to ban immigrants from welfare and public assistance for five years. That's essentially already current law, but everyone cheered for it, so yeah. They also chanted "lock her up" and he hawked his plan to pay for the wall with solar panels.
There's also a report that they are going to kill the startup visa rule, which is going to make for an awkward end to Tech Week.
Exit to "You Can't Always Get What You Want" because nothing matters anymore.
posted by zachlipton at 6:20 PM on June 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
There's also a report that they are going to kill the startup visa rule, which is going to make for an awkward end to Tech Week.
Exit to "You Can't Always Get What You Want" because nothing matters anymore.
posted by zachlipton at 6:20 PM on June 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
Right, and there have been a bunch of Jewish justices prior to the current Court too, so I assumed Joey meant current justicies. It's interesting that all of the current Christian justices are Roman Catholic. I don't tend to think of Roman Catholics referring to themselves as "Christian", but rather as "Catholic". At least when and where I was growing up (heavily steeped in Catholicism, including attending Catholic schools for 10 years).
posted by Justinian at 6:21 PM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 6:21 PM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
there are major cultural and theological differences between catholics and protestants, especially the evangelical/fundamentalist ones
it's the major reason why the dominationists aren't going to get that far in this country and the puritan world of the handmaid's tale will remain fictional - the catholics aren't having it, even if they agree with some of the concepts
posted by pyramid termite at 6:26 PM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
it's the major reason why the dominationists aren't going to get that far in this country and the puritan world of the handmaid's tale will remain fictional - the catholics aren't having it, even if they agree with some of the concepts
posted by pyramid termite at 6:26 PM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
> To be useful to our democracy the news should cover what's important. However, it tends instead to cover what is "novel".
This is a good summary of the problem with today's news media. Just like my day is spent dealing with things that are urgent rather than things that are important.
But I don't know how even a well-intentioned media fixes it. Malaysian MH370 still missing - remember that? Generalissimo Franco still dead? Still no text on the Senate AHCA bill?
posted by RedOrGreen at 6:27 PM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
This is a good summary of the problem with today's news media. Just like my day is spent dealing with things that are urgent rather than things that are important.
But I don't know how even a well-intentioned media fixes it. Malaysian MH370 still missing - remember that? Generalissimo Franco still dead? Still no text on the Senate AHCA bill?
posted by RedOrGreen at 6:27 PM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
There's also a report that they are going to kill the startup visa rule, which is going to make for an awkward end to Tech Week.
Of course. We fuck some actual job creators because they're foreigners.
posted by Talez at 6:34 PM on June 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Of course. We fuck some actual job creators because they're foreigners.
posted by Talez at 6:34 PM on June 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
but he should be wearing an orange jumpsuit? because if he weren't an entitled white person, he would be?
why should we not say this fundamental truth? I mean, it's not like that they filled the suit with bedbugs, I assume. Or bees.
posted by angrycat at 7:20 PM on June 21 [6 favorites +] [!]
Because it begins to drag us close to their level, and they are more than willing to go even lower.
I am not knocking you, at all, but it seems like you are doing the same "sin of omission" I am concerned they will do, which is missing the greater point.
Orange jumpsuit post makes "us" feel good. The real story is an elected rep. failed to show for court on charges, yet remembered to declare for re-election.
The orange jumpsuit post (which I have not re-linked to, I hope for obvious reasons) is a distraction. It's a distraction "we" should avoid. "We" should focus on how Rs in Senate and House are bulldozing as much as they can and using instances like that as ways to say we are "other" and "against what voters want", etc.
Quotation marks are to emphasize a point, which is, essentially, if you are not currently voting R, you are considered "other" and, therefore they will consider us as "other".
I hope that makes sense.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 7:05 PM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
why should we not say this fundamental truth? I mean, it's not like that they filled the suit with bedbugs, I assume. Or bees.
posted by angrycat at 7:20 PM on June 21 [6 favorites +] [!]
Because it begins to drag us close to their level, and they are more than willing to go even lower.
I am not knocking you, at all, but it seems like you are doing the same "sin of omission" I am concerned they will do, which is missing the greater point.
Orange jumpsuit post makes "us" feel good. The real story is an elected rep. failed to show for court on charges, yet remembered to declare for re-election.
The orange jumpsuit post (which I have not re-linked to, I hope for obvious reasons) is a distraction. It's a distraction "we" should avoid. "We" should focus on how Rs in Senate and House are bulldozing as much as they can and using instances like that as ways to say we are "other" and "against what voters want", etc.
Quotation marks are to emphasize a point, which is, essentially, if you are not currently voting R, you are considered "other" and, therefore they will consider us as "other".
I hope that makes sense.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 7:05 PM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
ELECTIONS NEWS
** I'm going to follow this up with a recap of what the next couple of special elections are. Remember, YOU can help these folks get elected!
** June 20 special -- Four special elections yesterday, they were all Holds. 'Nuff said.
** VA gov -- First post-primary Quinnipiac poll has Northam up 47-39 on Gillespie.
** ACHA continues to poll terribly. Ipsos and Morning Consult both finding strong majorities opposed.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:13 PM on June 21, 2017 [44 favorites]
** I'm going to follow this up with a recap of what the next couple of special elections are. Remember, YOU can help these folks get elected!
** June 20 special -- Four special elections yesterday, they were all Holds. 'Nuff said.
** VA gov -- First post-primary Quinnipiac poll has Northam up 47-39 on Gillespie.
** ACHA continues to poll terribly. Ipsos and Morning Consult both finding strong majorities opposed.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:13 PM on June 21, 2017 [44 favorites]
Thank you, again, Chrysostom. Even when the news is bad, I appreciate your comments.
posted by greermahoney at 7:28 PM on June 21, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by greermahoney at 7:28 PM on June 21, 2017 [16 favorites]
I have a hard time imagining other prosecutions that need to be protected because they are/were more important than prosecuting people such as Donald Trump and his associates, such as.
It might be hard to imagine now, but someday the FBI will have to prosecute somebody even worse than Trump. Every future prosecution that relies on confidential informants would be imperiled if the FBI couldn't be trusted not to divulge information about an informant. Who would ever cooperate if they knew that law enforcement wouldn't hold up their end of the bargain to protect them? It's an important law enforcement tool and Mueller, a former FBI Director and US Attorney, isn't going to break DOJ policy (pdf) and kneecap the FBI by exposing their dirty laundry in public. It would directly imperil the ability of the DOJ to fulfill its mission in the future.
Besides, if Trump was an informant and especially if the FBI granted him "authorization of otherwise illegal activity", prosecuting Trump for that now would undermine Mueller's investigation. The political and reputational costs both to the FBI and to his current Special Counsel investigation would be enormous. That's the reason I mentioned the Bulger case, Mueller was Director when an FBI agent went to jail and the bureau paid out $3million in damages over mishandling a CI. It would be proof that the deep state is crooked and out to get him. That would create a real reason for the opposition the shut down the investigation. And then what?
posted by peeedro at 7:33 PM on June 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
It might be hard to imagine now, but someday the FBI will have to prosecute somebody even worse than Trump. Every future prosecution that relies on confidential informants would be imperiled if the FBI couldn't be trusted not to divulge information about an informant. Who would ever cooperate if they knew that law enforcement wouldn't hold up their end of the bargain to protect them? It's an important law enforcement tool and Mueller, a former FBI Director and US Attorney, isn't going to break DOJ policy (pdf) and kneecap the FBI by exposing their dirty laundry in public. It would directly imperil the ability of the DOJ to fulfill its mission in the future.
Besides, if Trump was an informant and especially if the FBI granted him "authorization of otherwise illegal activity", prosecuting Trump for that now would undermine Mueller's investigation. The political and reputational costs both to the FBI and to his current Special Counsel investigation would be enormous. That's the reason I mentioned the Bulger case, Mueller was Director when an FBI agent went to jail and the bureau paid out $3million in damages over mishandling a CI. It would be proof that the deep state is crooked and out to get him. That would create a real reason for the opposition the shut down the investigation. And then what?
posted by peeedro at 7:33 PM on June 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
I think this, from Dylan Scott, is the best summary of the Senate bill I've seen: "This bill is basically Obamacare, but it cuts taxes and then cuts Medicaid to pay for it."
The ACA was paid for by a bunch of taxes. Basically all of those get repealed. But the bill has to save the government money, both because that's what Republicans want and to comply it with reconciliation rules, and basic math says you can't do that just by cutting taxes. So it slashes the hell out of Medicaid and reduces the subsides for Exchange plans a bunch, and ta-da, the Senate health care plan; no actual health care policy included.
oh look, a patently false statement from @MaggieNYT: "People vote in their own interest. Always. No one should be surprised by that"
After being pressed by the internet puppy I get an alarming percentage of my news from, she's revised this to basically acknowledge that people define their own interest subjectively for themselves, so her statement is just "people vote how they want to." And, I mean, yes, thank you, but even Chris Cillizza has more useful takes than that occasionally.
posted by zachlipton at 7:48 PM on June 21, 2017 [21 favorites]
The ACA was paid for by a bunch of taxes. Basically all of those get repealed. But the bill has to save the government money, both because that's what Republicans want and to comply it with reconciliation rules, and basic math says you can't do that just by cutting taxes. So it slashes the hell out of Medicaid and reduces the subsides for Exchange plans a bunch, and ta-da, the Senate health care plan; no actual health care policy included.
oh look, a patently false statement from @MaggieNYT: "People vote in their own interest. Always. No one should be surprised by that"
After being pressed by the internet puppy I get an alarming percentage of my news from, she's revised this to basically acknowledge that people define their own interest subjectively for themselves, so her statement is just "people vote how they want to." And, I mean, yes, thank you, but even Chris Cillizza has more useful takes than that occasionally.
posted by zachlipton at 7:48 PM on June 21, 2017 [21 favorites]
UPCOMING SPECIAL ELECTIONS
As I mentioned earlier, there are still a number of special elections prior to November, and then some in November, plus the regular elections in VA and NJ.
The state legislative elections, in particular, tend to be shoestring affairs - tens of thousands of dollars or even less. If YOU, Mr. or Ms. Metafilter, can kick in a few bucks, it can make a big difference! Or, if you can phone bank/canvass, or whatever. State legislatures actually make a lot of law, and a lot of it is lousy. If you can, please help.
I'll make this a semi-regular column as we have elections coming up. Starting today with the next three.
=============
Thank you, Mefites!
posted by Chrysostom at 7:51 PM on June 21, 2017 [43 favorites]
As I mentioned earlier, there are still a number of special elections prior to November, and then some in November, plus the regular elections in VA and NJ.
The state legislative elections, in particular, tend to be shoestring affairs - tens of thousands of dollars or even less. If YOU, Mr. or Ms. Metafilter, can kick in a few bucks, it can make a big difference! Or, if you can phone bank/canvass, or whatever. State legislatures actually make a lot of law, and a lot of it is lousy. If you can, please help.
I'll make this a semi-regular column as we have elections coming up. Starting today with the next three.
=============
JUNE 27 -- Iowa House 22 - Ray Stevens [Through a depressing clusterfuck, Stevens is only a write-in candidate, so he can probably *really* use phonebank/canvass help.]==
HD-22 is currently an R seat (the incumbent passed away); there was no Dem opposition in 2016, 2014, or 2012, so at least someone is running this time. The district went 65-30 Trump.
==
JULY 11 -- Oklahoma House 75 - Karen Gaddis
HD-75 is currently an R seat (the incumbent resigned after a sex scandal); the R won 60-40 versus Gaddis in 2016; there was no opposition in 2014 or 2012. No 2016 presidential numbers for the district yet, but it went 64-36 for Romney.
==
JULY 18 -- New Hampshire House Merrimack 18 -- Kris Schultz
HD-18 is currently a D seat (the incumbent resigned for reasons unclear); the D won 56-44 against the same GOP opponent who is running this time; Dem was unopposed in 2014, and won 64-36 in 2012. District went 59-37 for Clinton.
Thank you, Mefites!
posted by Chrysostom at 7:51 PM on June 21, 2017 [43 favorites]
Look, I totally understand the motivation, and even the logic of fighting fire with fire, but it doesn't work. It has never worked. The left is made up of primarily idealists and optimists, who are incapable of becoming mirrorland republicans. Witness the various leftist media empires which never were, despite huge funding and great talent pools. Overthinking ethical beans is what we do man.
Look, one of my most persistent bad habits is overthinking myself into paralysis. Another problem I have is social anxiety; I've had it all my life. Yet in spite of my analytical, bet-hedging nature and my unease around people, I went and phone banked last fall for the Clinton campaign.
Do you know what got me off my ass and out the door to the campaign office? It wasn't idealism or optimism. It was anger and fear. I saw this nightmare of a human being blundering toward the launch codes to two thousand nuclear warheads while his minions sharpened their knives to gut the poor and kill the helpless. I saw American citizens enthusiastically lining up behind a two-bit, dipshit con artist. And I was angry, and I was afraid.
The working people of America SHOULD be angry. Their wealth and well-being are being slowly and systematically strangled out of them while a team of dipshits joyfully shreds up whatever remained of America's international credibility. I don't think it's a coincidence that Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren are the two most popular figureheads of the left wing. They are angry motherfuckers, and I like that they're angry.
sotonohito had it spot on:
"In his ongoing efforts to poison your water, Trump is trying to slash nearly 10% of the EPA's workforce so the agency can no longer keep an eye his polluting campaign donors. Trump, who only drinks imported French bottled water, isn't worried about water purity for anyone else."
And we need that framing pushed, aggressively, on all forms of media from radio to web to print to TV to podcast, and repeated endlessly until even the lowest information voter "knows" that Trump is an elitist scumbag who wants them to die from contaminated water.
Yes. absolutely yes.
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 7:51 PM on June 21, 2017 [32 favorites]
Look, one of my most persistent bad habits is overthinking myself into paralysis. Another problem I have is social anxiety; I've had it all my life. Yet in spite of my analytical, bet-hedging nature and my unease around people, I went and phone banked last fall for the Clinton campaign.
Do you know what got me off my ass and out the door to the campaign office? It wasn't idealism or optimism. It was anger and fear. I saw this nightmare of a human being blundering toward the launch codes to two thousand nuclear warheads while his minions sharpened their knives to gut the poor and kill the helpless. I saw American citizens enthusiastically lining up behind a two-bit, dipshit con artist. And I was angry, and I was afraid.
The working people of America SHOULD be angry. Their wealth and well-being are being slowly and systematically strangled out of them while a team of dipshits joyfully shreds up whatever remained of America's international credibility. I don't think it's a coincidence that Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren are the two most popular figureheads of the left wing. They are angry motherfuckers, and I like that they're angry.
sotonohito had it spot on:
"In his ongoing efforts to poison your water, Trump is trying to slash nearly 10% of the EPA's workforce so the agency can no longer keep an eye his polluting campaign donors. Trump, who only drinks imported French bottled water, isn't worried about water purity for anyone else."
And we need that framing pushed, aggressively, on all forms of media from radio to web to print to TV to podcast, and repeated endlessly until even the lowest information voter "knows" that Trump is an elitist scumbag who wants them to die from contaminated water.
Yes. absolutely yes.
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 7:51 PM on June 21, 2017 [32 favorites]
Lucian K. Truscott, Salon: Power in the absence of money
That’s why it’s so astonishing to hear Trump and his billionaires talking contemptuously about the people who work for them. The problem with bureaucracy is what makes it powerful. Because the Congress writes laws that are nonspecific, it is left to bureaucrats to write the regulations to implement them. Policies can be political but bureaucracies are practical. They are by nature slow, careful, and patient, and they gather power in small bits and pieces, but over time, it adds up. Because the people who work in our government aren’t doing it for the money, they must be motivated by other means. Trump doesn’t know how to do this. His idea of exerting control over the government he leads has been to denigrate and intimidate the agencies and people who work in them. It hasn’t worked. The list of departments that Trump has pissed off in less than six months is dangerously long, and the number of people working in them is frighteningly huge.posted by Glibpaxman at 7:52 PM on June 21, 2017 [16 favorites]
It might be hard to imagine now, but someday the FBI will have to prosecute somebody even worse than Trump.
I know that's theoretically possible, but it feels like science fiction territory. I thought Trump was a really awful person before he ran for office, and my opinion of him went way down after that.
I'm still don't understand why people watched his TV show, voting for him is still unfathomable to me.
posted by bongo_x at 8:18 PM on June 21, 2017 [11 favorites]
I know that's theoretically possible, but it feels like science fiction territory. I thought Trump was a really awful person before he ran for office, and my opinion of him went way down after that.
I'm still don't understand why people watched his TV show, voting for him is still unfathomable to me.
posted by bongo_x at 8:18 PM on June 21, 2017 [11 favorites]
The FBI may someday have an even worse defendant, but it will never have a more necessary and important prosecution. There is simply no point keeping powder dry when the Chief Executive and Commander in Chief may have been suborned.
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:33 PM on June 21, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:33 PM on June 21, 2017 [24 favorites]
[About the nation] Bloomberg added, "We're better today than we have ever been."
Translation:
[About his portfolio] Bloomberg salivated, "I'm richer today than I have ever been."
posted by xigxag at 8:40 PM on June 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
Translation:
[About his portfolio] Bloomberg salivated, "I'm richer today than I have ever been."
posted by xigxag at 8:40 PM on June 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'd like to highlight yet another lie Trump told today, in this tweet: @realDonaldTrump Well, the Special Elections are over and those that want to MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN are 5 and O! All the Fake News, all the money spent = 0
I've been hearing that 5-0 claim a lot today. The first time I looked it up & sure enough, the real record is 4-1. A guy named Jimmy Gomez won CA-34 a couple weeks ago & he's a Democrat.
So why did Trump lie about something so easily verifiable? Because the truth of something isn't what's important to him. In his mind things are true if they help sell his case & 5-0 sells better than 4-1. And now all his zombies are out there crowing about how we can't even win one out of 5 when we did. And he knows he'll never be held accountable for it so there's no price to be paid for lying. And that's why he did it, because it sounds better.
posted by scalefree at 9:12 PM on June 21, 2017 [49 favorites]
I've been hearing that 5-0 claim a lot today. The first time I looked it up & sure enough, the real record is 4-1. A guy named Jimmy Gomez won CA-34 a couple weeks ago & he's a Democrat.
So why did Trump lie about something so easily verifiable? Because the truth of something isn't what's important to him. In his mind things are true if they help sell his case & 5-0 sells better than 4-1. And now all his zombies are out there crowing about how we can't even win one out of 5 when we did. And he knows he'll never be held accountable for it so there's no price to be paid for lying. And that's why he did it, because it sounds better.
posted by scalefree at 9:12 PM on June 21, 2017 [49 favorites]
The Reichstag Fire Next Time - Masha Gessen
That is what we talk about when we talk about the Reichstag fire, and it has already happened. Like sad versions of the characters in The Wizard of Oz, who set off in search of traits they already possess, we are living in fear of an event that will catapult us into a terrifying future, when the event has already occurred—and has given us our terrifying present.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:19 PM on June 21, 2017 [59 favorites]
That is what we talk about when we talk about the Reichstag fire, and it has already happened. Like sad versions of the characters in The Wizard of Oz, who set off in search of traits they already possess, we are living in fear of an event that will catapult us into a terrifying future, when the event has already occurred—and has given us our terrifying present.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:19 PM on June 21, 2017 [59 favorites]
"There's also a report that they are going to kill the startup visa rule, which is going to make for an awkward end to Tech Week."
Of course. We fuck some actual job creators because they're foreigners.
The idea isn't even so much to screw over foreigners as, along with the H1b Visa changes, to fuck with Silicon Valley. The Trump regime doesn't care so much if job creators are harmed, as long as people on his enemies list are screwed over.
posted by happyroach at 9:24 PM on June 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Of course. We fuck some actual job creators because they're foreigners.
The idea isn't even so much to screw over foreigners as, along with the H1b Visa changes, to fuck with Silicon Valley. The Trump regime doesn't care so much if job creators are harmed, as long as people on his enemies list are screwed over.
posted by happyroach at 9:24 PM on June 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
“We’re not even campaigning, and look at this crowd!” he said at another point. The rally was advertised, sponsored and organized by his campaign committee.
So if Trump is campaigning in Iowa, isn't his campaign basically admitting that the Iowa caucus will be competitive? I was thinking that he was going to be primaried in 2020, but it's funny to see they are already preparing for that. Will his next rally take place in New Hampshire or would that be too obvious?
posted by peeedro at 9:37 PM on June 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
So if Trump is campaigning in Iowa, isn't his campaign basically admitting that the Iowa caucus will be competitive? I was thinking that he was going to be primaried in 2020, but it's funny to see they are already preparing for that. Will his next rally take place in New Hampshire or would that be too obvious?
posted by peeedro at 9:37 PM on June 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
This is Trump. He rallies where he earned some strokes recently. He's not looking ahead on the electoral calendar. He's looking for more strokes.
posted by notyou at 9:42 PM on June 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by notyou at 9:42 PM on June 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
Brilliant essay, tmotat. Thanks for the link.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:52 PM on June 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:52 PM on June 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
So if Trump is campaigning in Iowa, isn't his campaign basically admitting that the Iowa caucus will be competitive? I was thinking that he was going to be primaried in 2020, but it's funny to see they are already preparing for that. Will his next rally take place in New Hampshire or would that be too obvious?
Category error. Campaign strategy has no part in the decision to go to Iowa. It was chosen purely because Trump won there so he knew it was a safe place to go where he could receive the adulation that is his due. It's his narcissism that took him there, not strategy.
posted by scalefree at 10:08 PM on June 21, 2017 [11 favorites]
Category error. Campaign strategy has no part in the decision to go to Iowa. It was chosen purely because Trump won there so he knew it was a safe place to go where he could receive the adulation that is his due. It's his narcissism that took him there, not strategy.
posted by scalefree at 10:08 PM on June 21, 2017 [11 favorites]
He also prefers going to states that voted for him.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:10 PM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 10:10 PM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
He's also rewarding them with his presence, so they can bask in his glory.
posted by scalefree at 10:12 PM on June 21, 2017
posted by scalefree at 10:12 PM on June 21, 2017
Folks around here seem to be a bit loath to draw any campaign-specific conclusions from GA-06. But there does seem to me to be one fairly straightforward lesson to draw. The whole reason Democrats thought they had a chance in GA-06 was that Trump only won it by 1.5 points, and the main reason the Democrats now tell us not to be disappointed with underperforming this margin by 2.3 (especially compared to the huge over-performance in the three other specials) is that GA-06 is actually a lot less moderate than it seemed, having gone +23 and +19 for R in '12 and '08. So relative to those earlier benchmarks, Dems outperformed the baseline at least as well in GA-06 as in the other special elections.
But that still leaves unexplained the question of why GA-06 turned so radically against Trump compared to the other special election districts, to which it was much more similar in '12 and '08. Whatever the cause, though, if one thought the +1.5 margin in '16 was a good reason to go all-in for the special election, then that means that the only hope was to especially leverage the Trump effect, without which GA-06 was just as impossible as KA-04, MT-AL, and SC-05. I think almost everyone agrees that Ossoff didn't do this. And based on the numbers, that seems like a significant mistake, one that undermined the entire strategy of going all-in based on that +1.5 in '16. That, at least, seems like a reasonable lesson to take forward to '18 when fighting in R districts that similarly turned against Trump. You can't just trust in the anti-Trump effect: it would instead appear (though we can't know the counterfactual!) that you need to vigorously activate it.
posted by chortly at 11:41 PM on June 21, 2017 [15 favorites]
But that still leaves unexplained the question of why GA-06 turned so radically against Trump compared to the other special election districts, to which it was much more similar in '12 and '08. Whatever the cause, though, if one thought the +1.5 margin in '16 was a good reason to go all-in for the special election, then that means that the only hope was to especially leverage the Trump effect, without which GA-06 was just as impossible as KA-04, MT-AL, and SC-05. I think almost everyone agrees that Ossoff didn't do this. And based on the numbers, that seems like a significant mistake, one that undermined the entire strategy of going all-in based on that +1.5 in '16. That, at least, seems like a reasonable lesson to take forward to '18 when fighting in R districts that similarly turned against Trump. You can't just trust in the anti-Trump effect: it would instead appear (though we can't know the counterfactual!) that you need to vigorously activate it.
posted by chortly at 11:41 PM on June 21, 2017 [15 favorites]
The Man of Twists and Turns linked to this article by Masha Gessen in The New Yorker upthread. It's brilliant and I can't recommend it too highly: The Reichstag Fire Next Time
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:53 PM on June 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:53 PM on June 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
Oh, and I guess the one other lesson we might learn from these special elections is a negative one. Either GA-06 did a little worse than the others, or it did about the same, depending on the benchmark one uses. But either way, Ossoff's strategy of moderation did no better than the slightly more left-leaning strategies in some of the other elections. So these elections provide little evidence that Democrats must run centrist candidates in centrist districts in order to maximize the wave in '18. The anti-Trump effect may hold regardless of the precise ideological strategy of the Democratic candidate, and efforts to push for more centrist Democrats in conservative districts seem as unjustified by these recent data as claims that only populists can win it. Of course, there's thousands of elections worth of other evidence out there, but at least based on these recent ones, Democrats have seen little reason to think that they shouldn't feel free to run on whatever substantive platform they please.
posted by chortly at 12:06 AM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by chortly at 12:06 AM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
linked to this article by Masha Gessen in The New Yorker
lest anyone be put off by that imprint: it's actually in Harper's Magazine. (And it's profound.)
posted by progosk at 12:16 AM on June 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
lest anyone be put off by that imprint: it's actually in Harper's Magazine. (And it's profound.)
posted by progosk at 12:16 AM on June 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
Oops, you're correct of course: Harper's
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:27 AM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:27 AM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Apart from his ugly face, the media should be questioning who those "they" are, ugly old man keeps talking about.
I mean, I guess it's a mash up of liberal elites, MSM and the deep state, and his fans know that, but it should be questioned publicly because he is the president and he has a Republican congress. He's supposed to be in control, and yet he acts and speaks like a lazy stupid schoolboy who is half scared and half defiant of the strict parents who will ground him forever if they learn what he is up to.
posted by mumimor at 12:39 AM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
I mean, I guess it's a mash up of liberal elites, MSM and the deep state, and his fans know that, but it should be questioned publicly because he is the president and he has a Republican congress. He's supposed to be in control, and yet he acts and speaks like a lazy stupid schoolboy who is half scared and half defiant of the strict parents who will ground him forever if they learn what he is up to.
posted by mumimor at 12:39 AM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
He's a Zaphod Beeblebrox gone horribly wrong. I'd take the Z man any day over the current strag.
posted by christopherious at 1:30 AM on June 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by christopherious at 1:30 AM on June 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
He doesn't get to ruin H2G2 too!! He's ruined plenty of things already.
Besides, I thought we were refraining from doomsday storylines of intergalactic destruction in this thread.
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 1:36 AM on June 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
Besides, I thought we were refraining from doomsday storylines of intergalactic destruction in this thread.
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 1:36 AM on June 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
You're right, he doesn't. Not here, anyway. There are interesting similarities but not enough of a pattern IMO.
posted by christopherious at 1:48 AM on June 22, 2017
posted by christopherious at 1:48 AM on June 22, 2017
Government can work for people. It can improve their lives
Sure it could - but is it? NPR's Fresh Air just did a book promo interview about the save us, you die plans of "Government".
How is the US of A's government's DOD vs not DOD spending 'working for the people' as an example? How about the money on debt servicing - how is that 'working for the people'?
posted by rough ashlar at 4:24 AM on June 22, 2017
Sure it could - but is it? NPR's Fresh Air just did a book promo interview about the save us, you die plans of "Government".
How is the US of A's government's DOD vs not DOD spending 'working for the people' as an example? How about the money on debt servicing - how is that 'working for the people'?
posted by rough ashlar at 4:24 AM on June 22, 2017
There is simply no point keeping powder dry when the Chief Executive and Commander in Chief may have been suborned.
Because then he'd be treated different from all the other suborners. Alan Dershowitz made that argument in his defense of Clinton and cites the American Bar Association article "The Lies Have It". The lies have been allowed for decades. Why would or SHOULD this new liar be punished when decades of past fibbers have been allowed to slip past?
posted by rough ashlar at 4:45 AM on June 22, 2017
Because then he'd be treated different from all the other suborners. Alan Dershowitz made that argument in his defense of Clinton and cites the American Bar Association article "The Lies Have It". The lies have been allowed for decades. Why would or SHOULD this new liar be punished when decades of past fibbers have been allowed to slip past?
posted by rough ashlar at 4:45 AM on June 22, 2017
The question as to whether Clinton lied when he denied having had sex "with that woman" is in no way comparable with the possibility that Trump and his coterie are working for Russia.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:55 AM on June 22, 2017 [47 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:55 AM on June 22, 2017 [47 favorites]
The question as to whether Clinton lied when he denied having had sex "with that woman" is in no way comparable with the possibility that Trump and his coterie are working for Russia.
And you sir, missed the point.
The argument of 'you have let other suborners go' was made in the Clinton case. And there has been another 2 decades of suborners allowed to skate past the Clinton event. If the District Attorney of the most populated area in a state claims for 30 years he'd seen perjury unpunished that is 5 decades of allowing people to skate.
But feel free to latch onto it is about Clinton. Because his name was mentioned. Ignore that Alan Deshowitz is considered a constitutional law scholar with his argument about letting perjury skate and instead focus on that blue dress blowjob. Rather than being concerned for the corrosive effect of not-honest courts and legal process and what could be done to fix what's been broken for decades, worry about how 'incomparable' one event of 'suborned' is to another.
I'd rather see suborning fixed at the bottom so the people at the top are worried VS thinking that somehow the spider web of laws haning on the boughs of the tree of liberty entangle the weak and small to be fed upon will, somehow, not be like the spider web between the boughs of the tree which allow the powerful and large to pass though it unhindered.
posted by rough ashlar at 5:44 AM on June 22, 2017
And you sir, missed the point.
The argument of 'you have let other suborners go' was made in the Clinton case. And there has been another 2 decades of suborners allowed to skate past the Clinton event. If the District Attorney of the most populated area in a state claims for 30 years he'd seen perjury unpunished that is 5 decades of allowing people to skate.
But feel free to latch onto it is about Clinton. Because his name was mentioned. Ignore that Alan Deshowitz is considered a constitutional law scholar with his argument about letting perjury skate and instead focus on that blue dress blowjob. Rather than being concerned for the corrosive effect of not-honest courts and legal process and what could be done to fix what's been broken for decades, worry about how 'incomparable' one event of 'suborned' is to another.
I'd rather see suborning fixed at the bottom so the people at the top are worried VS thinking that somehow the spider web of laws haning on the boughs of the tree of liberty entangle the weak and small to be fed upon will, somehow, not be like the spider web between the boughs of the tree which allow the powerful and large to pass though it unhindered.
posted by rough ashlar at 5:44 AM on June 22, 2017
Do you know what 'suborn' means?
posted by thelonius at 5:49 AM on June 22, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 5:49 AM on June 22, 2017 [20 favorites]
A really good article by Jamelle Bouie at Slate: Why Obama Voters Defected: New findings explain how Trump won them over—and why he probably wouldn’t next time..
The conclusion:
The conclusion:
This is a portrait of the most common Obama-to-Trump voter: a white American who wants government intervention in the economy but holds negative, even prejudiced, views toward racial, ethnic, and religious minorities. In 2012, these voters seemed to value economic liberalism over a white, Christian identity and backed Obama over Romney. By 2016, the reverse was true: Thanks to Trump’s campaign, and the events of the preceding years, they valued that identity over economic assistance. In which case, you can draw an easy conclusion about the Clinton campaign—even accounting for factors like misogyny and James Comey’s twin interventions, it failed to articulate an economic message strong enough to keep those populists in the fold and left them vulnerable to Trump’s identity appeal. You could then make a firm case for the future: To win them back, you need liberal economic populism.posted by chris24 at 5:56 AM on June 22, 2017 [42 favorites]
But there’s another way to read the data. Usually, voters in the political crosscurrents, like Drutman’s populists, have to prioritize one of their chief concerns. That’s what happened in 2008 and 2012. Yes, they held negative views toward nonwhites and other groups, but neither John McCain nor Mitt Romney ran on explicit prejudice. Instead, it was a standard left vs. right ideological contest, and a substantial minority of populists sided with Obama because of the economy. That wasn’t true of the race with Trump. He tied his racial demagoguery to a liberal-sounding economic message, activating racial resentment while promising jobs, entitlements, and assistance. When Hillary Clinton proposed a $600 billion infrastructure plan, he floated a $1 trillion one. When Clinton pledged help on health care, Trump did the same, promising a cheaper, better system. Untethered from the conservative movement, Trump had space to move left on the economy, and he did just that. For the first time in recent memory, populist voters didn’t have to prioritize their values. They could choose liberal economic views and white identity, and they did.
This fact makes it difficult to post hypotheticals about the election. It’s possible a more populist campaign would have prevented those Obama defections. But a Trump who blurs differences on economic policy is a Trump who might still win a decisive majority of those voters who want a welfare state for whites. In the context of 2016, that blend of racial antagonism and economic populism may have been decisive. (The other option, it should be said, is that with a more populist presidential campaign, Democrats might have activated lower-turnout liberal voters, thus making Obama-to-Trump voters irrelevant.)
The good news for Democrats—and the even better news for the populist left—is that unless Trump makes a swift break with the Republican Party, his combined economic and identity-based appeal was a one-time affair. In 2020, if he runs for re-election, Trump will just be a Republican, and while he’s certain to prime racial resentment, he’ll also have a conservative economic record to defend. In other words, it will be harder to muddy the waters. And if it’s harder to muddy the waters, then it’s easier for Democrats—and especially a Democratic populist—to draw the distinctions that win votes.
He's not Zaphod - he's the Man in the Shack (warning: old mega-thread link)
posted by mikepop at 5:57 AM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by mikepop at 5:57 AM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Do you know what 'suborn' means?
Suborning perjury is what legally matters - why use the stand alone word? Part of government EVERYWHERE is built on "to secretly furnish or equip".
posted by rough ashlar at 6:00 AM on June 22, 2017
Suborning perjury is what legally matters - why use the stand alone word? Part of government EVERYWHERE is built on "to secretly furnish or equip".
posted by rough ashlar at 6:00 AM on June 22, 2017
Absolutely not -- the Man in the Shack was humble and unassuming and the entire point of his character was anonymity. A universe where nobody knew who Trump was would be his own personal circle of Hell.
posted by delfin at 6:13 AM on June 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by delfin at 6:13 AM on June 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
@CandyAppleAlly
The "Pelosi must go" campaign reminds me that if Republicans demonize a successful woman enough, Democratic dudes will eventually join in
- They will tell you that they feel bad about it. That it's just "political realities". That the GOP just hates her so much she's "toxic"
- They will also never, ever talk this way about a man
posted by chris24 at 6:19 AM on June 22, 2017 [116 favorites]
The "Pelosi must go" campaign reminds me that if Republicans demonize a successful woman enough, Democratic dudes will eventually join in
- They will tell you that they feel bad about it. That it's just "political realities". That the GOP just hates her so much she's "toxic"
- They will also never, ever talk this way about a man
posted by chris24 at 6:19 AM on June 22, 2017 [116 favorites]
Christ, we just fall into these stupid traps laid by Republicans every single time.
Rs: "Oh, this briar patch is so ineffective! Someone get me out of this toxic briar patch!"
Ds: "We will get right on that!"
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:28 AM on June 22, 2017
Rs: "Oh, this briar patch is so ineffective! Someone get me out of this toxic briar patch!"
Ds: "We will get right on that!"
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:28 AM on June 22, 2017
And god forbid you tell Democratic dudes (and the occasional dudette) that they should examine WHY they hate *insert female politician* so so so much more than their male equivalent. They'd vote for Elizabeth Warren in a heartbeat, they can't possibly be sexist! YOU'RE THE SEXIST.
Okay. Seeing it play out again with Pelosi is just giving me hives right now.
posted by lydhre at 6:35 AM on June 22, 2017 [43 favorites]
Okay. Seeing it play out again with Pelosi is just giving me hives right now.
posted by lydhre at 6:35 AM on June 22, 2017 [43 favorites]
The president was very clear in his tweet and/or Mussolini style rant.
posted by Artw at 6:48 AM on June 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:48 AM on June 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
Re: the article chris24 just posted:
This fact makes it difficult to post hypotheticals about the election. It’s possible a more populist campaign would have prevented those Obama defections. But a Trump who blurs differences on economic policy is a Trump who might still win a decisive majority of those voters who want a welfare state for whites.
This sounds a lot like stuff that corb has been saying in these threads for months now. Or more specifically, this sounds like what she's been articulating as a fear that he will continue to do (and by doing so will continue to win). That if he started proposing things like single-payer but only for "natural born citizens," etc., we would start to see his approval/disapproval numbers reverse. I'm concerned she and the author are both right. And I'm concerned the next Trump-esque figure will be able to do just that.
posted by penduluum at 6:51 AM on June 22, 2017 [15 favorites]
This fact makes it difficult to post hypotheticals about the election. It’s possible a more populist campaign would have prevented those Obama defections. But a Trump who blurs differences on economic policy is a Trump who might still win a decisive majority of those voters who want a welfare state for whites.
This sounds a lot like stuff that corb has been saying in these threads for months now. Or more specifically, this sounds like what she's been articulating as a fear that he will continue to do (and by doing so will continue to win). That if he started proposing things like single-payer but only for "natural born citizens," etc., we would start to see his approval/disapproval numbers reverse. I'm concerned she and the author are both right. And I'm concerned the next Trump-esque figure will be able to do just that.
posted by penduluum at 6:51 AM on June 22, 2017 [15 favorites]
I still don't understand why people watched his TV show.
I watched the first few seasons of The Apprentice. It was heavily promoted, it was a new idea at the time, and I'll try almost anything once.
The first season wasn't terrible. Many of the contestants were actually competent professionals who wanted to win and hoped it was help launch their careers. We watched the next few seasons (I can recall seeing Omarosa's 1st appearance at least) hoping it would get better by sliding more towards the serious business competition aspect of the show rather than lean into the fake reality TV aspect of it.
They really went the other way, HARD. Contestants were more obviously incompetent and they started to make themselves into more ever more extreme caricatures of their real selves.
One thing that stuck out for me from the very beginning was that Trump has horrible business sense. I suspect that part of the appeal at the start was that people who actually know what they're talking about would listen to Trump at the "board meeting" as he made conclusions that were wrong and stupid. Perplexed and angry at, I don't know, the injustice of such an obvious buffoon being allowed to present himself as a serious person who knows what they're doing. Then we need to keep watching every episode to see what nonsense he'll say next.
At some point, they had Ivanka and Trump Jr. on the show as guest judges. Ivanka displayed some poise and was otherwise unremarkable, Jr. came off as an incompetent douche bro who was lucky to have been born into wealth.
It kept getting worse until it completely jumped the shark into Celebrity Apprentice where it doubled down on everything I didn't like about the show. I kind of thought that anyone still watching it was just there to see a weird slow-motion train wreck and found it morbidly entertaining.
When Trump first announced he was running for office, I thought back to the show and quickly dismissed the idea. Surely everyone else will have seen the same things I saw and his bid will go nowhere. Once he won the nomination I thought, "Well, that just the crazy Republicans that vote in the primaries, there's no way this ends in anything but a landslide victory for Hillary."
I mean, I know that Trump didn't really win because he was a better candidate but my mistake was in thinking that most other people saw what I saw on that show and that that knowledge would keep them from voting for Trump. I don't understand how ANYONE could have watched that show and EVERY voted for Trump as President of anything ever. Rarely have I been more wrong than that. While I still mostly trust my own judgement, I've lost trust in the judgement of a HUGE chunk of Americans, including the 36% that still think he's doing a good job, especially them. I just wish they'd label themselves so I can keep my distance.
posted by VTX at 6:51 AM on June 22, 2017 [27 favorites]
I watched the first few seasons of The Apprentice. It was heavily promoted, it was a new idea at the time, and I'll try almost anything once.
The first season wasn't terrible. Many of the contestants were actually competent professionals who wanted to win and hoped it was help launch their careers. We watched the next few seasons (I can recall seeing Omarosa's 1st appearance at least) hoping it would get better by sliding more towards the serious business competition aspect of the show rather than lean into the fake reality TV aspect of it.
They really went the other way, HARD. Contestants were more obviously incompetent and they started to make themselves into more ever more extreme caricatures of their real selves.
One thing that stuck out for me from the very beginning was that Trump has horrible business sense. I suspect that part of the appeal at the start was that people who actually know what they're talking about would listen to Trump at the "board meeting" as he made conclusions that were wrong and stupid. Perplexed and angry at, I don't know, the injustice of such an obvious buffoon being allowed to present himself as a serious person who knows what they're doing. Then we need to keep watching every episode to see what nonsense he'll say next.
At some point, they had Ivanka and Trump Jr. on the show as guest judges. Ivanka displayed some poise and was otherwise unremarkable, Jr. came off as an incompetent douche bro who was lucky to have been born into wealth.
It kept getting worse until it completely jumped the shark into Celebrity Apprentice where it doubled down on everything I didn't like about the show. I kind of thought that anyone still watching it was just there to see a weird slow-motion train wreck and found it morbidly entertaining.
When Trump first announced he was running for office, I thought back to the show and quickly dismissed the idea. Surely everyone else will have seen the same things I saw and his bid will go nowhere. Once he won the nomination I thought, "Well, that just the crazy Republicans that vote in the primaries, there's no way this ends in anything but a landslide victory for Hillary."
I mean, I know that Trump didn't really win because he was a better candidate but my mistake was in thinking that most other people saw what I saw on that show and that that knowledge would keep them from voting for Trump. I don't understand how ANYONE could have watched that show and EVERY voted for Trump as President of anything ever. Rarely have I been more wrong than that. While I still mostly trust my own judgement, I've lost trust in the judgement of a HUGE chunk of Americans, including the 36% that still think he's doing a good job, especially them. I just wish they'd label themselves so I can keep my distance.
posted by VTX at 6:51 AM on June 22, 2017 [27 favorites]
The first season wasn't terrible. Many of the contestants were actually competent professionals who wanted to win and hoped it was help launch their careers. We watched the next few seasons (I can recall seeing Omarosa's 1st appearance at least) hoping it would get better by sliding more towards the serious business competition aspect of the show rather than lean into the fake reality TV aspect of it.
Omarosa was on the first season. That was when Trump first hosted SNL, which served as a practice run for the live boardroom finale on the same stage the following week.
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:01 AM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Omarosa was on the first season. That was when Trump first hosted SNL, which served as a practice run for the live boardroom finale on the same stage the following week.
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:01 AM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Re "Nancy Pelosi Must Go:" - srsly, Democrats, do you think that if you only jettison Nancy with her Girl Cooties and San Francisco Cooties, then the Republicans will want to work with you?
Ha. Ha. Hahahaha fucking HA. Listen up: THEY WILL NEVER COOPERATE WITH YOU. THEY DON'T WANT TO WORK WITH YOU. EVER EVER EVER. They are Lucy with the football, and you are Charlie Brown who never learns.
It's true that Nancy Pelosi is in her 70's, so it is time to start grooming the new generation of Democratic leadership, but tossing Pelosi overboard now in hopes of kissing some Republican butt WILL NOT WORK.
Gaaaah I can't believe thinking people are falling for this.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 7:02 AM on June 22, 2017 [80 favorites]
Ha. Ha. Hahahaha fucking HA. Listen up: THEY WILL NEVER COOPERATE WITH YOU. THEY DON'T WANT TO WORK WITH YOU. EVER EVER EVER. They are Lucy with the football, and you are Charlie Brown who never learns.
It's true that Nancy Pelosi is in her 70's, so it is time to start grooming the new generation of Democratic leadership, but tossing Pelosi overboard now in hopes of kissing some Republican butt WILL NOT WORK.
Gaaaah I can't believe thinking people are falling for this.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 7:02 AM on June 22, 2017 [80 favorites]
I don't understand how ANYONE could have watched that show and EVERY voted for Trump as President of anything ever. Rarely have I been more wrong than that. While I still mostly trust my own judgement, I've lost trust in the judgement of a HUGE chunk of Americans, including the 36% that still think he's doing a good job, especially them. I just wish they'd label themselves so I can keep my distance.
I feel the same way, but going back even further, Biff in Back to the Future II was based on Trump. The guy has been a stupid hairdo joke of a person for decades. I'm continually flabbergasted that anyone thinks he's in any way a person to be taken seriously. It makes me want to scream at the sky WHYYYYYYYYYYYY
posted by Fleebnork at 7:07 AM on June 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
I feel the same way, but going back even further, Biff in Back to the Future II was based on Trump. The guy has been a stupid hairdo joke of a person for decades. I'm continually flabbergasted that anyone thinks he's in any way a person to be taken seriously. It makes me want to scream at the sky WHYYYYYYYYYYYY
posted by Fleebnork at 7:07 AM on June 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
Re "Nancy Pelosi Must Go:" - srsly, Democrats, do you think that if you only jettison Nancy with her Girl Cooties and San Francisco Cooties, then the Republicans will want to work with you?
This this this. The GOP's playbook has "[insert Democrat leader here]" on every fucking page and Pelosi on none. They don't care about her literally at all. Not a jot nor a tiddle.
posted by Etrigan at 7:08 AM on June 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
This this this. The GOP's playbook has "[insert Democrat leader here]" on every fucking page and Pelosi on none. They don't care about her literally at all. Not a jot nor a tiddle.
posted by Etrigan at 7:08 AM on June 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
I don't understand how anyone could watch Trump in any context for more than 3 minutes and vote for him. Yet here we are. White supremacy is a hell of a drug.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:08 AM on June 22, 2017 [31 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:08 AM on June 22, 2017 [31 favorites]
The New York Times: Senate Leaders Unveil Bill to Repeal the Affordable Care Act
The Senate bill — once promised as a top-to-bottom revamp of the health bill passed by the House last month — instead maintains its structure, with modest adjustments.
This is pretty much the same bill that was described as "mean", "cold-hearted" and a "son-of-a-bitch" by noted liberal analyst President Donald J. Trump. I will be calling my Republican senators to remind them of this!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:09 AM on June 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
The Senate bill — once promised as a top-to-bottom revamp of the health bill passed by the House last month — instead maintains its structure, with modest adjustments.
This is pretty much the same bill that was described as "mean", "cold-hearted" and a "son-of-a-bitch" by noted liberal analyst President Donald J. Trump. I will be calling my Republican senators to remind them of this!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:09 AM on June 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
so when do we man the barricades?
posted by entropicamericana at 7:11 AM on June 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 7:11 AM on June 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
I watched the first few seasons of The Apprentice. It was heavily promoted, it was a new idea at the time, and I'll try almost anything once.
It was a decent show the first season, and like stated above a novel idea at the time. I never gave much thought to Trump other than he's a philandering rich guy like other philandering rich guys, and now he has a TV show.
It was when he went after Rosie O'Donnell with such virulence that he revealed his soul to me. The hateful way he attacked her because she made a joke about his hair. That was the moment I was never able to see him as anything other than a disgusting human being, and unfortunately he has not for one moment since made me think otherwise.
posted by archimago at 7:11 AM on June 22, 2017
It was a decent show the first season, and like stated above a novel idea at the time. I never gave much thought to Trump other than he's a philandering rich guy like other philandering rich guys, and now he has a TV show.
It was when he went after Rosie O'Donnell with such virulence that he revealed his soul to me. The hateful way he attacked her because she made a joke about his hair. That was the moment I was never able to see him as anything other than a disgusting human being, and unfortunately he has not for one moment since made me think otherwise.
posted by archimago at 7:11 AM on June 22, 2017
I'm continually flabbergasted that anyone thinks he's in any way a person to be taken seriously. It makes me want to scream at the sky WHYYYYYYYYYYYY
It's because he's ostentatiously wealthy. Some people are really into that! He is the Bow Wow of global politics.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:12 AM on June 22, 2017
It's because he's ostentatiously wealthy. Some people are really into that! He is the Bow Wow of global politics.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:12 AM on June 22, 2017
Add another program to Fox & Friends as Trump's shows.
FYI: the TVs on Air Force One are programmed to record "Property Brothers"
posted by chris24 at 7:16 AM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
FYI: the TVs on Air Force One are programmed to record "Property Brothers"
posted by chris24 at 7:16 AM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
Paige Winfield Cunningham/WaPo: The Health 202: Here's what's in the Senate health-care bill
... the Senate bill contains three elements McConnell is betting will win over a half dozen or so moderates who remain skeptical but whose votes are crucial to overall passage (remember: the majority leaders needs only 50 votes since arcane budget rules are being applied to the measure, meaning he can lose just two Republicans). McConnell's draft, hashed out behind closed doors, basically retains Obamacare's insurance subsidy structure -- with just a few tweaks -- takes a gentler approach than the House bill in the short-term to Medicaid expansion, and wouldn't allow states to opt out of key protections for patients with preexisting conditions.posted by ZeusHumms at 7:17 AM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
The idea, aides and lobbyists say, is to provide a softer landing for people at lower ends of the income spectrum than under the House bill. That measure based the subsidies only on age and didn't peg them to actual premiums, resulting in estimates of dramatic cost spikes for some Americans and prompting a heavy onslaught of public criticism that spooked many House moderates.
Michael Bloomberg embodies "with friends like these, who needs enemies".
What the actual fuck?
"The people have spoken"? Yes, Mike, they did. And they voted overwhelmingly against the Orange Turd. Nearly 4 million more people voted for Clinton, he's not stinking up the Oval Office because America voted for him, he's stinking up the Oval Office because despite America voting **AGAINST** him our stupid fucking Electoral College overruled the people and installed him against America's will.
And cooperate with him? No. I'll oppose him twice as hard as the Republicans opposed Obama, partially because we should do that to any Republican simply as payback and to remind the Republicans that they have to play nice or we won't, but even more so because he's a catastrophe who will ruin America if he isn't opposed in everything he does or says.
As for respect and reverence for the office of the presidency, like so many other demands for respect it seems to only apply to Republicans. I didn't see any respect or reverence for the office of the Presidency when Obama was holding that office, so I'll be damned if I'll give a Republican what they wouldn't give a Democrat.
posted by sotonohito at 7:21 AM on June 22, 2017 [21 favorites]
What the actual fuck?
"The people have spoken"? Yes, Mike, they did. And they voted overwhelmingly against the Orange Turd. Nearly 4 million more people voted for Clinton, he's not stinking up the Oval Office because America voted for him, he's stinking up the Oval Office because despite America voting **AGAINST** him our stupid fucking Electoral College overruled the people and installed him against America's will.
And cooperate with him? No. I'll oppose him twice as hard as the Republicans opposed Obama, partially because we should do that to any Republican simply as payback and to remind the Republicans that they have to play nice or we won't, but even more so because he's a catastrophe who will ruin America if he isn't opposed in everything he does or says.
As for respect and reverence for the office of the presidency, like so many other demands for respect it seems to only apply to Republicans. I didn't see any respect or reverence for the office of the Presidency when Obama was holding that office, so I'll be damned if I'll give a Republican what they wouldn't give a Democrat.
posted by sotonohito at 7:21 AM on June 22, 2017 [21 favorites]
This fact makes it difficult to post hypotheticals about the election. It’s possible a more populist campaign would have prevented those Obama defections. But a Trump who blurs differences on economic policy is a Trump who might still win a decisive majority of those voters who want a welfare state for whites.
This sounds a lot like stuff that corb has been saying in these threads for months now. Or more specifically, this sounds like what she's been articulating as a fear that he will continue to do (and by doing so will continue to win). That if he started proposing things like single-payer but only for "natural born citizens," etc., we would start to see his approval/disapproval numbers reverse. I'm concerned she and the author are both right. And I'm concerned the next Trump-esque figure will be able to do just that.
This is what many of the European populists do, and it is toxic. Both for the obvious reasons, and also because gradually they are moving the discourse. People who were actively fighting racism a decade ago will now say "I was naive back then" and things you couldn't even mention in public before are now spoken on national radio/TV every day.
posted by mumimor at 7:21 AM on June 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
This sounds a lot like stuff that corb has been saying in these threads for months now. Or more specifically, this sounds like what she's been articulating as a fear that he will continue to do (and by doing so will continue to win). That if he started proposing things like single-payer but only for "natural born citizens," etc., we would start to see his approval/disapproval numbers reverse. I'm concerned she and the author are both right. And I'm concerned the next Trump-esque figure will be able to do just that.
This is what many of the European populists do, and it is toxic. Both for the obvious reasons, and also because gradually they are moving the discourse. People who were actively fighting racism a decade ago will now say "I was naive back then" and things you couldn't even mention in public before are now spoken on national radio/TV every day.
posted by mumimor at 7:21 AM on June 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
Republicans' Proposed Medicaid Cuts Would Hit Rural Patients Hard (NPR, June 22, 2017) -- the headline doesn't do the story justice. The Republican anti-healthcare plans would ruin rural communities by cutting Medicaid. When the regional hospital is the largest employer, and that employer depends on Medicaid, cuts to this program mean impacts to the entire region.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:22 AM on June 22, 2017 [44 favorites]
For the hundreds of rural U.S. hospitals struggling to stay in business, health policy decisions made in Washington, D.C., this summer could make survival a lot tougher.That's money that isn't going back into the community. Major Federal programs like Medicaid don't support single aspects of a community or the population, they can raise the standard of living for whole regions, keep skilled people in the area and reduce the "brain drain" as local folks move elsewhere for good paying, reliable jobs.
Since 2010, at least 79 rural hospitals have closed across the country, and nearly 700 more are at risk of closing. These hospitals serve a largely older, poorer and sicker population than most hospitals, making them particularly vulnerable to changes made to Medicaid funding.
"A lot of hospitals like [ours] could get hurt," says Kerry Noble, CEO of Pemiscot Memorial Health Systems, which runs the public hospital in Pemiscot County, one of the poorest in Missouri.
The GOP's American Health Care Act would cut Medicaid — the public insurance program for many low-income families, children and elderly Americans, as well as people with disabilities — by as much as $834 billion. The Congressional Budget Office has said that would result in 23 million more people being uninsured in the next 10 years. Even more could lose coverage under the budget proposed by President Trump, which suggests an additional $610 billion in cuts to the program.
That is a problem for small rural hospitals like Pemiscot Memorial, which depend on Medicaid. The hospital serves an agricultural county that ranks worst in Missouri for most health indicators, including premature deaths, quality of life and even adult smoking rates. Closing the county's hospital could make those much worse.
And a rural hospital closure goes beyond people losing health care. Jobs, property values and even schools can suffer. Pemiscot County already has the state's highest unemployment rate. Losing the hospital would mean losing the county's largest employer.
"It would be devastating economically," Noble says. "Our annual payrolls are around $20 million a year."
posted by filthy light thief at 7:22 AM on June 22, 2017 [44 favorites]
I can't find numbers at the moment, but I'm willing to bet that rural and small hospitals employ waaay more people than the GOP's pet industry, coal. And hospitals are places people would be happy to work and have their children work, unlike coal mines.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:24 AM on June 22, 2017 [38 favorites]
posted by filthy light thief at 7:24 AM on June 22, 2017 [38 favorites]
Yeah, but caregiving is a girl job. Doesn't count.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:26 AM on June 22, 2017 [35 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:26 AM on June 22, 2017 [35 favorites]
The New York Times: The changes being considered in Congress could “amount to a 25 percent shortfall in covering the actual cost of providing care to our nation’s neediest citizens,” the top executives of 10 insurance companies wrote this week. “These amounts spell deep cuts, not state flexibilities, in Medicaid.”
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:27 AM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:27 AM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
The big guy himself is clumsily trying to reverse-psychology us into dumping "Nancy P." Bonus reference to the time Schumer wept when he talked about his family dying in the Holocaust. I for one am convinced.
@realDonaldTrump
I certainly hope the Democrats do not force Nancy P out. That would be very bad for the Republican Party - and please let Cryin' Chuck stay!
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:29 AM on June 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump
I certainly hope the Democrats do not force Nancy P out. That would be very bad for the Republican Party - and please let Cryin' Chuck stay!
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:29 AM on June 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
They already began the ruralcommunityruining process by wrecking public education. Rural schools keep their towns alive. Robbing public education closes schools, and that kicks the legs out from under little towns. They've knocked them down, and now they're curbstomping them.
posted by Don Pepino at 7:31 AM on June 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Don Pepino at 7:31 AM on June 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
Ben Wikler breaks it down for us. The tl;dr is that this isn't just "repeal and replace" of Obamacare, this is a direct attack on the poor and a gutting of the LBJ-era Great Society. Here's his tweetstorm in paragraph form:
These Medicaid cuts are insidious. Designed to get bigger every year—so, outside window that CBO scores, they asphyxiate the program. Right now, Medicaid is a guarantee. if you're on Medicaid, you wake up w crushing headache, docs find brain tumor, your care is covered. If there's a spike in cancer—or say opioid addiction—in your state, federal funds will help cover it all. Trumpcare ends that. Under Trumpcare, states get a fixed, capped amount of $ per person (diff amt for kids, older adults, etc). If need grows, $ doesn't. Medical costs have always grown faster than general rate of inflation. Under Senate Trumpcare, Medicaid caps lock to rate of inflation. Senate Trumpcare means a giant Medicaid cut—and one that gets more vicious every passing year. Even worse during health crises. State budgets will be crushed by a vise. As Federal Medicaid $ disappear, they'll slash schools, roads, public safety to fill the hole. Trumpcare won't just devastate health care. Everything your state government does is in danger. Rural hospitals will literally close. Class sizes will rise. The only people who benefit: the wealthy who get a tax cut.posted by zombieflanders at 7:36 AM on June 22, 2017 [104 favorites]
Senate Trumpcare is worse than House Trumpcare. And House Trumpcare was horrible.
I was astonished to note this morning that the Marketplace Morning Report -- presumably more business-friendly than the reputedly "liberal" NPR -- was both more upfront about the nature of the draconian Medicaid cuts and used the word "secret" -- as opposed to the Republican-preferred "private" -- to describe the drafting process.
posted by Gelatin at 7:37 AM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Gelatin at 7:37 AM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
They're banking on expanding the other rural employer -- prisons.
If you haven't read Blood in the Water yet (re the Attica uprising and the rural prison system in general), I highly recommend it.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:41 AM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
If you haven't read Blood in the Water yet (re the Attica uprising and the rural prison system in general), I highly recommend it.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:41 AM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Framing again:
"Senate Republican plan is rural genocide"
Or
"RepubliCare: a tax cut for the elites paid for by the blood of rural voters"
Or
"Trump to rural Americans: Drop dead"
Or
"Why does the Republican party hate heartland America so much they voted to kill hardworking rural Americans?"
Or
"Republicans repay decades of loyal Republican voters with a plan to close their local hospitals"
Or
"Why do Congressional Republicans hate America?"
posted by sotonohito at 7:51 AM on June 22, 2017 [45 favorites]
"Senate Republican plan is rural genocide"
Or
"RepubliCare: a tax cut for the elites paid for by the blood of rural voters"
Or
"Trump to rural Americans: Drop dead"
Or
"Why does the Republican party hate heartland America so much they voted to kill hardworking rural Americans?"
Or
"Republicans repay decades of loyal Republican voters with a plan to close their local hospitals"
Or
"Why do Congressional Republicans hate America?"
posted by sotonohito at 7:51 AM on June 22, 2017 [45 favorites]
Michael Bloomberg embodies "with friends like these, who needs enemies".
What the actual fuck?
Bloomberg was a lifelong member of the Democratic Party until his run for NYC mayor in 2001, whereupon he switched to the GOP. Even after he changed his affiliation independent in 2007, he appeared on the Republican ballot line in the 2009 election. We're going to have to come up with an acronym that's the reverse of RINO - a Republican Incognito for Naming Obfuscation.
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:52 AM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
What the actual fuck?
Bloomberg was a lifelong member of the Democratic Party until his run for NYC mayor in 2001, whereupon he switched to the GOP. Even after he changed his affiliation independent in 2007, he appeared on the Republican ballot line in the 2009 election. We're going to have to come up with an acronym that's the reverse of RINO - a Republican Incognito for Naming Obfuscation.
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:52 AM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
I've been amazed to read several sources refer to the Medicaid "expansion" and then what the AHCA plans to do to it: it's like otherwise-literate writers have forgotten the word contraction.
posted by Dashy at 7:53 AM on June 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Dashy at 7:53 AM on June 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
Associated Press: Gingrich: It's OK, Trump was only lying about "tapes" because he's "not a professional politician"
(Are you sure? It seems pretty lucrative so far)
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:53 AM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
(Are you sure? It seems pretty lucrative so far)
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:53 AM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
Congratulations, libertarians: you're about to get your utopia.
Sure, thousands will die every year, the slave state will likely be resurrected in all but name, and the concept of class mobility will be all but extinct, but I'm sure it was all worth it just to get your ~hypotheticals~ put into action.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:54 AM on June 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
Sure, thousands will die every year, the slave state will likely be resurrected in all but name, and the concept of class mobility will be all but extinct, but I'm sure it was all worth it just to get your ~hypotheticals~ put into action.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:54 AM on June 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
I uh... walked away from this thread last night after my last comment was deleted and didn't realize LM had undeleted it until just now. It's at least a hundred comments too late now, but thank you, LM. And thank you as well, You Can't Tip a Buick. I'll stop talking about it now, but just wanted to say that.
posted by zarq at 7:54 AM on June 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by zarq at 7:54 AM on June 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
it's like otherwise-literate writers have forgotten the word contraction.
If you are experiencing regular, strong contractions of your Medicaid, it's now time to head to a hospital and go bankrupt
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:55 AM on June 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
If you are experiencing regular, strong contractions of your Medicaid, it's now time to head to a hospital and go bankrupt
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:55 AM on June 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
How about -- rural hospitals will bleed to death after AHCA slashes funding.
posted by puddledork at 7:56 AM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by puddledork at 7:56 AM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
So now let's see what CRAZY thing Trump does to distract us from the 20,000,000 people who will lose insurance. I'm thinking war.
posted by Glibpaxman at 7:57 AM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Glibpaxman at 7:57 AM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
We need the Senate Democrats to be out there vowing to protect rural Americans, emphasizing that they're working to protect Republican voters from a Republican Congress that has chosen to sacrifice them for the benefit of elite stockbrokers.
We need Chuck Schumer out there saying that RepubliCare would be a huge benefit to many of New York's richest people, but he puts the health of Heartland Americans above the elites of his state.
We need them vowing to shut down the Senate to prevent this plan to shutter rural hospitals from passing, because as Democrats they believe in doing the right thing for America whether or the victims of RepubliCare are Democratic voters or not.
That's the sort of specifics I mean when I say we need to fight the motherfuckers 24/7 and we need to be mean, vicious, aggressive, and fight dirty. It's all 100% true, it's just framed in a really aggressive, vicious, sort of way.
And we need to push that on every channel that has a Democratic spokesperson, we need some unified framing here so that the message is clear and penetrates quickly and is easily memorable.
We need soundbite level ultra aggressive, mean, framing: "Democrats stand united against the Republican plan to ruin rural America!"
posted by sotonohito at 7:57 AM on June 22, 2017 [38 favorites]
We need Chuck Schumer out there saying that RepubliCare would be a huge benefit to many of New York's richest people, but he puts the health of Heartland Americans above the elites of his state.
We need them vowing to shut down the Senate to prevent this plan to shutter rural hospitals from passing, because as Democrats they believe in doing the right thing for America whether or the victims of RepubliCare are Democratic voters or not.
That's the sort of specifics I mean when I say we need to fight the motherfuckers 24/7 and we need to be mean, vicious, aggressive, and fight dirty. It's all 100% true, it's just framed in a really aggressive, vicious, sort of way.
And we need to push that on every channel that has a Democratic spokesperson, we need some unified framing here so that the message is clear and penetrates quickly and is easily memorable.
We need soundbite level ultra aggressive, mean, framing: "Democrats stand united against the Republican plan to ruin rural America!"
posted by sotonohito at 7:57 AM on June 22, 2017 [38 favorites]
"The Republicans' war on rural America and the middle class" sounds pretty good to me.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:06 AM on June 22, 2017 [31 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:06 AM on June 22, 2017 [31 favorites]
(Trumpoids) Ridiculous. Rural hospitals will run better once we remove all the waste from the system, like spending money on urban ni*BONNNNGG*
(News viewer) What'd he say?
(Chuck Todd) He says that Trumpcare's near!
(Gabby Johnson) *stomps foot* No, ragggh nabbitt!
posted by delfin at 8:08 AM on June 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
(News viewer) What'd he say?
(Chuck Todd) He says that Trumpcare's near!
(Gabby Johnson) *stomps foot* No, ragggh nabbitt!
posted by delfin at 8:08 AM on June 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
Foreign Policy in Focus.
Behind all of Trump's boneheaded policies in the Middle East is an unmistakable urge for confrontation with Iran.
posted by adamvasco at 8:09 AM on June 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
Behind all of Trump's boneheaded policies in the Middle East is an unmistakable urge for confrontation with Iran.
posted by adamvasco at 8:09 AM on June 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump
I certainly hope the Democrats do not force Nancy P out. That would be very bad for the Republican Party - and please let Cryin' Chuck stay!
Those nicknames that Impotent Donald Trump comes up with are just so clever and devastating! Impotent Donald Trump thinks that if a nickname is repeated often enough, then there will be a permanent association in the minds of the voters. I think Impotent Donald Trump might be right about that!
posted by flarbuse at 8:18 AM on June 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
I certainly hope the Democrats do not force Nancy P out. That would be very bad for the Republican Party - and please let Cryin' Chuck stay!
Those nicknames that Impotent Donald Trump comes up with are just so clever and devastating! Impotent Donald Trump thinks that if a nickname is repeated often enough, then there will be a permanent association in the minds of the voters. I think Impotent Donald Trump might be right about that!
posted by flarbuse at 8:18 AM on June 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
Oh come on. It's ni*CLANG* everyone knows that. Bong, sheesh.
posted by phearlez at 8:19 AM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by phearlez at 8:19 AM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Text of the Discussion Draft of what is now called the Better Care Reconciliation Act of 2017
I am not yet reconciled to this! I refuse to be reconciled.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:19 AM on June 22, 2017 [17 favorites]
I am not yet reconciled to this! I refuse to be reconciled.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:19 AM on June 22, 2017 [17 favorites]
I have plenty of polite and neighborly interactions with Trump voters, but there's only one person I consider a good friend who refused to vote for Hillary for big-government-corruption-bullshit reasons. Not sure if she actually voted for Trump or voted Johnson/didn't vote at all ("let's not talk about it"), but her entire family are profoundly far-right MAGAheads so there's a lot of cultural pressure there.
Anyway, she's an RN at a rural hospital in an extremely Medicaid-dependent county and one projected to be very badly hit by cuts. If any hospitals close because of this, it'll be hers.
I wonder how she's gonna take it and if it'll change her outlook. Will she just accept losing her livelihood as the price tag of the libertarian ideal? Will she realize who's doing this and what she can do about it at the next election? Worst case scenario (and one the pessimistic-but-so-far-accurate lobe of my brain is telling me there's about a 50% chance of) is that she gets convinced by fox news and most of her milieu that it's somehow the fault of liberals/minorities/the resistance. If that happens, our friendship and the USA as a whole will be irrevocably megafucked.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:21 AM on June 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
Anyway, she's an RN at a rural hospital in an extremely Medicaid-dependent county and one projected to be very badly hit by cuts. If any hospitals close because of this, it'll be hers.
I wonder how she's gonna take it and if it'll change her outlook. Will she just accept losing her livelihood as the price tag of the libertarian ideal? Will she realize who's doing this and what she can do about it at the next election? Worst case scenario (and one the pessimistic-but-so-far-accurate lobe of my brain is telling me there's about a 50% chance of) is that she gets convinced by fox news and most of her milieu that it's somehow the fault of liberals/minorities/the resistance. If that happens, our friendship and the USA as a whole will be irrevocably megafucked.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:21 AM on June 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
I haven't been on Republican Twitter long enough to know if he's imitating it or they're imitating him, but either way these sorts of nicknames seem to be super common, unfortunately. I suspect it's his equivalent of faking a Texas accent.
posted by corb at 8:21 AM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by corb at 8:21 AM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
We need the Senate Democrats to be out there vowing to protect rural Americans, emphasizing that they're working to protect Republican voters from a Republican Congress that has chosen to sacrifice them for the benefit of elite stockbrokers.
And continuing that thing where they withhold unanimous consent, and slow the process by forcing Republicans to vote on every parliamentary procedure and dilatory motion.
And then start airing ads about how so-called moderates like Susan Collins voted to destroy Medicare and Medicaid large-number-x number of times.
posted by Gelatin at 8:22 AM on June 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
And continuing that thing where they withhold unanimous consent, and slow the process by forcing Republicans to vote on every parliamentary procedure and dilatory motion.
And then start airing ads about how so-called moderates like Susan Collins voted to destroy Medicare and Medicaid large-number-x number of times.
posted by Gelatin at 8:22 AM on June 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
I haven't been on Republican Twitter long enough to know if he's imitating it or they're imitating him, but either way these sorts of nicknames seem to be super common, unfortunately.
I remember reading blogs back in 1999 or 2000 or so when Republicans thought calling the Democratic candidate "Algore" was clever somehow. Their wit has not improved since.
posted by Gelatin at 8:25 AM on June 22, 2017
I remember reading blogs back in 1999 or 2000 or so when Republicans thought calling the Democratic candidate "Algore" was clever somehow. Their wit has not improved since.
posted by Gelatin at 8:25 AM on June 22, 2017
i'm still trying to figure out how destroying their own constituency is going to work out for the republican party - a constituency that is well-armed and perhaps more inclined to actually rebel than any other
are they insane?
posted by pyramid termite at 8:26 AM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
are they insane?
posted by pyramid termite at 8:26 AM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
No, they'll be convinced that it was all the fault of Obama/Democrats/socialists/etc and that will be that.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:28 AM on June 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 8:28 AM on June 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
I'm skeptical that any framing attempts made by Democrats have much chance of counteracting decades' worth of rhetorical carpet-bombing by Fox News and talk radio. Many of these people have spent their entire adult lives being told - over and over and over again - that literally nothing a Democrat says can be believed, and when the machine swings into gear and tells people like Rust Moranis' friend that the medical and economic misery that the AHCA will unleash is, in fact, "the fault of liberals/minorities/the resistance," they will believe it. And they will be angry.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:28 AM on June 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:28 AM on June 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
I think, PT, that they're counting on the fact that their voters are racists who, if they believe black people and Latinx people get hurt worse, will gladly vote to hurt themselves.
That was the whole, very successful, point of the Jim Crow laws. Like MLK said, if you can teach a white man to feast on Jim Crow he will ignore the fact that he's starving.
posted by sotonohito at 8:29 AM on June 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
That was the whole, very successful, point of the Jim Crow laws. Like MLK said, if you can teach a white man to feast on Jim Crow he will ignore the fact that he's starving.
posted by sotonohito at 8:29 AM on June 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
i'm still trying to figure out how destroying their own constituency is going to work out for the republican party - a constituency that is well-armed and perhaps more inclined to actually rebel than any other
The unspoken basis of modern conservatism is that it's better for 99 people to not get something they need than for 1 person to get it who doesn't need it, and they know that those people will find a way to cheat the system. They will literally smile on their deathbeds at the idea that at least those people aren't "getting away with it" anymore.
posted by Etrigan at 8:30 AM on June 22, 2017 [16 favorites]
The unspoken basis of modern conservatism is that it's better for 99 people to not get something they need than for 1 person to get it who doesn't need it, and they know that those people will find a way to cheat the system. They will literally smile on their deathbeds at the idea that at least those people aren't "getting away with it" anymore.
posted by Etrigan at 8:30 AM on June 22, 2017 [16 favorites]
> No, they'll be convinced that it was all the fault of Obama/Democrats/socialists/etc and that will be that.
Years from Now, This Will be the Right-Wing Narrative of the Trumpcare Disaster
Years from Now, This Will be the Right-Wing Narrative of the Trumpcare Disaster
Even though the Senate bill would "effectively delay repeal of Obamacare until 2020," as Bloomberg puts it, most observers think Republicans will be blamed for any chaos in the health care system between now and whenever Obamacare starts winding down -- insurance companies will rush for the exits, policies will be unavailable or staggeringly expensive, and because we will have all seen the final passage of the bill and the big signing ceremony involving the president, we'll all agree that the GOP owns the results.posted by tonycpsu at 8:32 AM on June 22, 2017 [45 favorites]
I'm not so sure. I think Republicans will still blame the bad outcome on Democrats.
In his pseudo-campaign rally last night in Cedar Rapids, we heard this from the president:“If we went and got the single greatest health care plan in the history of the world, we would not get one Democrat vote, because they’re obstructionists,” Trump said. “If we came to you and said, ‘Here’s your plan, you’re going to have the greatest plan in history, and you’re going to pay nothing,’ they’d vote against it, folks.” ... “If we had even a little Democrat support, just a little, like a couple of votes, you’d have everything. And you could give us a lot of votes and we’d even be willing to change it and move it around and try and make it even better,” Trump said. “But again, They just want to stop, they just want to obstruct. A few votes from the Democrats, seriously, a few votes from the Democrats, it could be so easy and so beautiful, and you’d have cooperation.”That's going to be the right-wing narrative of our upcoming health care disaster: We Republicans passed a bad bill because Democrats forced us to. They just wanted to be the Party of No, so they refused to help make it better. Therefore, every bad consequence of what we did is their fault. [...]
The majority of Republican voters will actually fall for this. I hope very few other voters do.
If you don't feel like calling, here's an easy way to email your senators
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:35 AM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:35 AM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
The worst part of this is that the ACA itself was dragged to the right by obstructionism from both Republicans and conservative Democrats like Joe Lieberman, Ben Nelson, and Blanche Lincoln, leading to many of its most spectacular failures, such as the ability for governors to block Medicaid expansion. So Republicans get to have it both ways -- they were able to neuter the impact of the original bill and keep it from succeeding without supplying a single vote for its passage, and now they get to blame Democrats when their attempt to kill it inevitably causes immense harm to people.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:37 AM on June 22, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 8:37 AM on June 22, 2017 [17 favorites]
Meanwhile, back on the Russia/Trump scandal front, Intel chiefs tell investigators Trump suggested they refute collusion with Russians:
posted by Doktor Zed at 8:41 AM on June 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
"Two of the nation's top intelligence officials told Special Counsel Robert Mueller's team and Senate investigators, in separate meetings last week, that President Donald Trump suggested they say publicly there was no collusion between his campaign and the Russians, according to multiple sources.Trump already went on Twitter early this morning to mischaracterize Jeh Johnson's House testimony yesterday - "Former Homeland Security Advisor Jeh Johnson is latest top intelligence official to state there was no grand scheme between Trump & Russia." - so one wonders how he'll react to this.
"Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats and National Security Agency Director Adm. Mike Rogers described their interactions with the President about the Russia investigation as odd and uncomfortable, but said they did not believe the President gave them orders to interfere, according to multiple sources familiar with their accounts."
posted by Doktor Zed at 8:41 AM on June 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
"But again, They just want to stop, they just want to obstruct. A few votes from the Democrats, seriously, a few votes from the Democrats, it could be so easy and so beautiful, and you’d have cooperation"
"If the Coalition Against Feline-Initiated Facial Consumption would be willing to give us a just give us a few votes, we could actually work together and make things better for people. But they just want to obstruct!" - Leopards Eating People's Faces Party Chairman
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:41 AM on June 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
"If the Coalition Against Feline-Initiated Facial Consumption would be willing to give us a just give us a few votes, we could actually work together and make things better for people. But they just want to obstruct!" - Leopards Eating People's Faces Party Chairman
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:41 AM on June 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
As for blaming the Democrats, of course they will.
And they get a double bind sort of thing going. If zero Democrats vote for RepubliCare then anything bad is the fault of the Democrats for failing to fix it. If **ANY** Democrats at all vote for RepubliCare than anything bad is the fact that the Democrats poisoned it.
Either way, the Republicans will put all the blame on the Democrats.
I also am amazed that Trump is successfully selling the idea that somehow it's up to the Democrats to fix his bill. WTF?
"If we had even a little Democrat support, just a little, like a couple of votes, you’d have everything."
Apparently, to the Republican voters, it is perfectly rational to believe that a) Republicans are innately superior to Democrats in all ways, and b) when the Republicans have a full majority they will pass horrible laws unless the Democrats help out.
WTF?
Are the Republican voters literally unaware that they have a majority in both houses of Congress and that they can pass absolutely anything they want to? Or is it just deflection, doublethink, and reflexive blaming the Democrats even in the face of their own party utterly and completely fucking up?
posted by sotonohito at 8:42 AM on June 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
And they get a double bind sort of thing going. If zero Democrats vote for RepubliCare then anything bad is the fault of the Democrats for failing to fix it. If **ANY** Democrats at all vote for RepubliCare than anything bad is the fact that the Democrats poisoned it.
Either way, the Republicans will put all the blame on the Democrats.
I also am amazed that Trump is successfully selling the idea that somehow it's up to the Democrats to fix his bill. WTF?
"If we had even a little Democrat support, just a little, like a couple of votes, you’d have everything."
Apparently, to the Republican voters, it is perfectly rational to believe that a) Republicans are innately superior to Democrats in all ways, and b) when the Republicans have a full majority they will pass horrible laws unless the Democrats help out.
WTF?
Are the Republican voters literally unaware that they have a majority in both houses of Congress and that they can pass absolutely anything they want to? Or is it just deflection, doublethink, and reflexive blaming the Democrats even in the face of their own party utterly and completely fucking up?
posted by sotonohito at 8:42 AM on June 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
As for blaming the Democrats, of course they will.
Remember when the AHCA vote was pulled at the last moment and Trump blamed the Democrats who wouldn't vote for it, as opposed to the, um, Republicans who wouldn't for it? Good times.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:43 AM on June 22, 2017 [15 favorites]
Remember when the AHCA vote was pulled at the last moment and Trump blamed the Democrats who wouldn't vote for it, as opposed to the, um, Republicans who wouldn't for it? Good times.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:43 AM on June 22, 2017 [15 favorites]
Good breakdown of bill in Andy Slavit's Twitter.
The Senate discussion bill is out. It's the ugly step-sibling of the House bill.
Analysis to follow shortly. Follow if interested. 1
Here is the bill: https://www.budget.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/SENATEHEALTHCARE.pdf …
2
Point 1: The ACA is not repealed. Health care for poor people, kids, the disability community and seniors is. 3
The ACA income based tax credits stay-- due to Senate rules. They just get bulldozed. More accurately, the people receiving the help do. 4
What's a conservative to do? They hate the tax credits. But they do demolish what an insurance company needs to do. Which they love. 5
Older people will be charged much more. Ppl over 350% of poverty won't get any support. Insurance will only cover 58% of someone's needs.6
Millions of families lose coverage. Those with insurance will get a lot less. Maternity, mental health, cancer treatments, not required.7
Insurers won't cover expensive HIV & cancer meds if they are the only ones. Coverage will devolve. That's the point, not a side effect.8
POINT 2: The main event in the Senate bill is the destruction of Medicaid. Far, far worse than even the House bill.9
Eligibility for exchanges would begin at 0% of FPL. This means states could eliminate Medicaid & put people in the exchange w no help.10
Medicaid's cuts of 25% in the House increase much more in the Senate. Hundreds of billions more cuts.11
Medicaid cuts spike further in 2025. The year baby boomers turn 80. And Medicaid pays half of nursing home care in the country.12
There's more at the link
posted by emjaybee at 8:43 AM on June 22, 2017 [20 favorites]
The Senate discussion bill is out. It's the ugly step-sibling of the House bill.
Analysis to follow shortly. Follow if interested. 1
Here is the bill: https://www.budget.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/SENATEHEALTHCARE.pdf …
2
Point 1: The ACA is not repealed. Health care for poor people, kids, the disability community and seniors is. 3
The ACA income based tax credits stay-- due to Senate rules. They just get bulldozed. More accurately, the people receiving the help do. 4
What's a conservative to do? They hate the tax credits. But they do demolish what an insurance company needs to do. Which they love. 5
Older people will be charged much more. Ppl over 350% of poverty won't get any support. Insurance will only cover 58% of someone's needs.6
Millions of families lose coverage. Those with insurance will get a lot less. Maternity, mental health, cancer treatments, not required.7
Insurers won't cover expensive HIV & cancer meds if they are the only ones. Coverage will devolve. That's the point, not a side effect.8
POINT 2: The main event in the Senate bill is the destruction of Medicaid. Far, far worse than even the House bill.9
Eligibility for exchanges would begin at 0% of FPL. This means states could eliminate Medicaid & put people in the exchange w no help.10
Medicaid's cuts of 25% in the House increase much more in the Senate. Hundreds of billions more cuts.11
Medicaid cuts spike further in 2025. The year baby boomers turn 80. And Medicaid pays half of nursing home care in the country.12
There's more at the link
posted by emjaybee at 8:43 AM on June 22, 2017 [20 favorites]
The majority of Republican voters will actually fall for this. I hope very few other voters do.
Meh. The social science is pretty clear on this: voters in general have very very short attention spans and are extremely amnesiac. If they are unhappy with their lot in life on the day they vote they blame whoever is in power, no matter who they try to blame it on, or who is actually to blame. The GOP can say whatever it wants but if there's a GOP president when everyone loses their healthcare, and if that damage is within the say 6 month timeframe of electoral memory, this will negatively impact them, no matter what the rhetoric is. (my recent reading of this book is my source here). This is not to say that the tribal GOP voters who vote that way because it's part of their group identity will change, but the % of the electorate that is actually swingable will not be convinced by that kind of rhetoric because they won't even know that they've heard it, or what it means or what it's referring to, or whether it reflects reality. They'll just feel the pain of the policy and vote against the bastards in power.
posted by dis_integration at 8:44 AM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
Meh. The social science is pretty clear on this: voters in general have very very short attention spans and are extremely amnesiac. If they are unhappy with their lot in life on the day they vote they blame whoever is in power, no matter who they try to blame it on, or who is actually to blame. The GOP can say whatever it wants but if there's a GOP president when everyone loses their healthcare, and if that damage is within the say 6 month timeframe of electoral memory, this will negatively impact them, no matter what the rhetoric is. (my recent reading of this book is my source here). This is not to say that the tribal GOP voters who vote that way because it's part of their group identity will change, but the % of the electorate that is actually swingable will not be convinced by that kind of rhetoric because they won't even know that they've heard it, or what it means or what it's referring to, or whether it reflects reality. They'll just feel the pain of the policy and vote against the bastards in power.
posted by dis_integration at 8:44 AM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
Despicable Coward Pat Toomey's Pittsburgh office voicemail is full, which is a good sign I guess. Either everyone's calling or they've set the phones to ignore constituents since they're scared of what they'll hear from them. Was able to leave a voice mail for the DC office, but who knows if that's getting any attention whatsoever.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:44 AM on June 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 8:44 AM on June 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
Unfortunately the question at this point isn't whether the majority of self-identified Republicans can be convinced that they lost health care because of Democrats/minorities, but whether 60%, 75% or 90% can. Believe it or not, though, if it's toward the lower end of that spectrum then the GOP is doomed. That's where messaging becomes important.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:44 AM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:44 AM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
>The social science is pretty clear on this
Achen and Bartels are pretty clear on this, but there's a lot of criticism of their work (as there normally is when big name scholars make big arguments). In short, there isn't a consensus.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 8:49 AM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
Achen and Bartels are pretty clear on this, but there's a lot of criticism of their work (as there normally is when big name scholars make big arguments). In short, there isn't a consensus.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 8:49 AM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
'm still trying to figure out how destroying their own constituency is going to work out for the republican party - a constituency that is well-armed and perhaps more inclined to actually rebel than any other
are they insane?
Thinking about Brownback's "Kansas experiment," I conceived the idea that their goal is to literally render Kansas uninhabitable and drive out everyone but the few necessary to work their mega-farms. They are dealing with unemployment not by creating jobs, but by forcing people to leave.
posted by SPrintF at 8:52 AM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
are they insane?
Thinking about Brownback's "Kansas experiment," I conceived the idea that their goal is to literally render Kansas uninhabitable and drive out everyone but the few necessary to work their mega-farms. They are dealing with unemployment not by creating jobs, but by forcing people to leave.
posted by SPrintF at 8:52 AM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
From the article tonycpsu posted above:
Meanwhile, more horrors are coming out: any existing Medicaid expansions will not apply to pregnant women, states will be allowed to introduce work requirements (another shiny bit to assuage libertarian guilt), and also allows states to deny essential health benefits.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:54 AM on June 22, 2017 [27 favorites]
I think McConnell, Paul Ryan, and other elected Republicans will brazenly argue that Democrats have some nerve complaining about the outcome when they announced an effective boycott of the process from the beginning.And right on cue, here's McConnell on the floor of the Senate half an hour ago: "I regret that our Democratic friends made clear early on they did not want to work with us". He's also tasking the Capitol Police with dragging protesters away from his office for daring to complain.
Meanwhile, more horrors are coming out: any existing Medicaid expansions will not apply to pregnant women, states will be allowed to introduce work requirements (another shiny bit to assuage libertarian guilt), and also allows states to deny essential health benefits.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:54 AM on June 22, 2017 [27 favorites]
Called my slimebag Senators, couldn't get through to their local or DC offices and had to leave messages, which was encouraging. Call yours, if you haven't already.
posted by emjaybee at 8:57 AM on June 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 8:57 AM on June 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
libertarian guilt
does this even exist
posted by murphy slaw at 8:58 AM on June 22, 2017 [26 favorites]
does this even exist
posted by murphy slaw at 8:58 AM on June 22, 2017 [26 favorites]
The guilt is over supporting a bill that doesn't explicitly require poor people to die in the street.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:59 AM on June 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:59 AM on June 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
i'm still trying to figure out how destroying their own constituency is going to work out for the republican party - a constituency that is well-armed and perhaps more inclined to actually rebel than any other
Why Republicans are so intent to pass a bill that in a normal world should spell their doom.
The grounds for political combat seem to have changed as well. If recent special elections are any indication—where GOP candidates refused to comment on signature GOP policies—extreme polarization means Republicans can mobilize supporters without being forced to talk about or account for their actual actions. Identity, for many voters, matters more than their pocketbooks. Republicans simply need to signal their disdain—even hatred—for their opponents, political or otherwise. Why worry about the consequences of your policies when you can preclude defeat by changing the ground rules of elections, spending vast sums, and stoking cultural resentment?
It seems, then, that we have an answer for Republicans insist on moving forward with the American Health Care Act. Because they can. And who is going to stop them?
They don't fear elections because nothing they can do will make their constituents turn on them while there are Democrats still in the world to blame. It's tribal, and Republicans care more about their identification than their own lives or the lives of their children. They care more about liberal tears than the very survival of the human race.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:01 AM on June 22, 2017 [19 favorites]
Why Republicans are so intent to pass a bill that in a normal world should spell their doom.
The grounds for political combat seem to have changed as well. If recent special elections are any indication—where GOP candidates refused to comment on signature GOP policies—extreme polarization means Republicans can mobilize supporters without being forced to talk about or account for their actual actions. Identity, for many voters, matters more than their pocketbooks. Republicans simply need to signal their disdain—even hatred—for their opponents, political or otherwise. Why worry about the consequences of your policies when you can preclude defeat by changing the ground rules of elections, spending vast sums, and stoking cultural resentment?
It seems, then, that we have an answer for Republicans insist on moving forward with the American Health Care Act. Because they can. And who is going to stop them?
They don't fear elections because nothing they can do will make their constituents turn on them while there are Democrats still in the world to blame. It's tribal, and Republicans care more about their identification than their own lives or the lives of their children. They care more about liberal tears than the very survival of the human race.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:01 AM on June 22, 2017 [19 favorites]
And right on cue, here's McConnell on the floor of the Senate half an hour ago: "I regret that our Democratic friends made clear early on they did not want to work with us".
It's infuriating when they make it so clear that they think we're dumb and not paying any attention.
It's also infuriating that they are right (as it applies to enough voters to keep them in power).
posted by diogenes at 9:01 AM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
It's infuriating when they make it so clear that they think we're dumb and not paying any attention.
It's also infuriating that they are right (as it applies to enough voters to keep them in power).
posted by diogenes at 9:01 AM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
My state has election-day voter registration. It works. With the risk of hackers destroying voter rolls, it's an essential policy in order to protect people's right to vote. Of course, many Republicans oppose the policy because they are more interested in discouraging the wrong kind of votes than in the principles of democracy itself.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:01 AM on June 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:01 AM on June 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
Daniel Drezner, WaPo: The good, the bad and the ugly aspects of Thucydides in the Trump administration
This is hardly the first time a White House has discovered the history of the Peloponnesian War. The reason this text is used so much in international relations courses is because some aspects of the war between Athens and Sparta usually resonates with current foreign policy dilemmas. Of course, the problem is that sometimes readers take away the wrong lessons from the text.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:03 AM on June 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
investigators found there had been a manipulation of voter data in a county database but the alterations were discovered and rectified
I think this is new; have there been any other prior reports that anyone actually altered voter data
Yikes! I don't think we've heard about altered data before this.
I'm less than 100% confident that we successfully caught and rectified every other instance of alterations.
posted by diogenes at 9:05 AM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
I think this is new; have there been any other prior reports that anyone actually altered voter data
Yikes! I don't think we've heard about altered data before this.
I'm less than 100% confident that we successfully caught and rectified every other instance of alterations.
posted by diogenes at 9:05 AM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Remember when Trump promised he was going to launch a probe into election fraud? Kinda wish he'd hurry up with that...
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:07 AM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:07 AM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
The image at the top of this LGM post about the Senate bill is a pretty good tl;dr for the GOP's entire ACA repeal effort.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:07 AM on June 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 9:07 AM on June 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
Are the Republican voters literally unaware that they have a majority in both houses of Congress and that they can pass absolutely anything they want to?
Well, but they really can't. They can only pass reconciliation bills by bare majorities. Anything that costs money needs 60 votes, and the Dems are hardly going to give the extra votes to them.
Thus, I suspect the paucity of the ACHA is partially from necessity, and partially because the post-ACHA landscape, if it succeeds, will put a lot of pressure on Dems to "fix it", thus peeling off vulnerable Dems to vote for a more populist bill that favors rural areas over cities, but is still better than the ACHA. And that's why R senators are being persuaded to vote for it regardless of what's in it, because they don't expect it to last.
posted by corb at 9:13 AM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
Well, but they really can't. They can only pass reconciliation bills by bare majorities. Anything that costs money needs 60 votes, and the Dems are hardly going to give the extra votes to them.
Thus, I suspect the paucity of the ACHA is partially from necessity, and partially because the post-ACHA landscape, if it succeeds, will put a lot of pressure on Dems to "fix it", thus peeling off vulnerable Dems to vote for a more populist bill that favors rural areas over cities, but is still better than the ACHA. And that's why R senators are being persuaded to vote for it regardless of what's in it, because they don't expect it to last.
posted by corb at 9:13 AM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
Wow, this is quite startling. @maggieNYT Audio is now permissible from today's briefing, per pool
posted by scalefree at 9:15 AM on June 22, 2017
posted by scalefree at 9:15 AM on June 22, 2017
Or they can just coast through whatever election cycles remain on gerrymandering and racism until democracy dies (figuratively) or the non-rich die (literally).
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:15 AM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:15 AM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
If the Coalition Against Feline-Initiated Facial Consumption would be willing to give us a just give us a few votes, we could actually work together and make things better for people. But they just want to obstruct!" - Leopards Eating People's Faces Party Chairman
Clearly that should be the Coalition Opposing Vicious Face-Eating Feline Endeavors.
posted by delfin at 9:17 AM on June 22, 2017 [43 favorites]
Clearly that should be the Coalition Opposing Vicious Face-Eating Feline Endeavors.
posted by delfin at 9:17 AM on June 22, 2017 [43 favorites]
Thus, I suspect the paucity of the ACHA is partially from necessity blah blah blah
Utter bullshit. The bill is pure fucking evil, and letting them try to paper over that fact is no better.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:17 AM on June 22, 2017 [15 favorites]
Utter bullshit. The bill is pure fucking evil, and letting them try to paper over that fact is no better.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:17 AM on June 22, 2017 [15 favorites]
It would be great to have a fully-fledged non-reconciliation healthcare bill that can get 60 votes in the Senate. Such a bill would be able to win the votes of at least eight Democrats. It would maintain the core principles of the ACA, which Republicans have spent a decade condemning as a catastrophic evil. It is completely impossible.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:17 AM on June 22, 2017
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:17 AM on June 22, 2017
Clearly that should be the Coalition Opposing Vicious Face-Eating Feline Endeavors.
I experimented with something along those lines but I gave up. Thank you.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:18 AM on June 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
I experimented with something along those lines but I gave up. Thank you.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:18 AM on June 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
Let's not forget Republicans also don't fear election consequences because they've managed to pervert democracy into a situation where they can win absolute majority control without winning a majority of votes on any level. And where they're happy to accept and actively court the interference of hostile forgiven agents to maintain that system.
They don't fear consequences because they don't ever intend to face them, they will change the rules, cheat, and commit treason to avoid doing so, while being cheered for it by their constituents and the media.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:21 AM on June 22, 2017 [30 favorites]
They don't fear consequences because they don't ever intend to face them, they will change the rules, cheat, and commit treason to avoid doing so, while being cheered for it by their constituents and the media.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:21 AM on June 22, 2017 [30 favorites]
Whip count here:
Amber Phillips, Reuben Fischer-Baum, Kevin Schaul, and Kevin Uhrmacher, WaPo: Which GOP senators have concerns with the health-care bill
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:21 AM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Amber Phillips, Reuben Fischer-Baum, Kevin Schaul, and Kevin Uhrmacher, WaPo: Which GOP senators have concerns with the health-care bill
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:21 AM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Well, but they really can't. They can only pass reconciliation bills by bare majorities. Anything that costs money needs 60 votes, and the Dems are hardly going to give the extra votes to them. Thus, I suspect the paucity of the ACHA is partially from necessity,
This is bullshit.
The paucity of the AHCA is because Republicans are cutting $1 trillion of taxes on the rich and the only way to pay for that is by cutting Medicaid. It's not because of the limitations of reconciliation. If the Republicans had 60 votes, the AHCA would be even worse, not better.
posted by JackFlash at 9:23 AM on June 22, 2017 [36 favorites]
This is bullshit.
The paucity of the AHCA is because Republicans are cutting $1 trillion of taxes on the rich and the only way to pay for that is by cutting Medicaid. It's not because of the limitations of reconciliation. If the Republicans had 60 votes, the AHCA would be even worse, not better.
posted by JackFlash at 9:23 AM on June 22, 2017 [36 favorites]
If they had 60 votes Republicans would end Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security entirely and redirect every dollar to the rich. If anyone doesn't believe that I would question what the fuck country you've been watching for the past 20 years.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:26 AM on June 22, 2017 [37 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:26 AM on June 22, 2017 [37 favorites]
And that's why R senators are being persuaded to vote for it regardless of what's in it, because they don't expect it to last.
Heck, if that's the case why not take some time to work with Democrats on a bill that doesn't need fixing in the first place? You know, hold hearings, floor debate, work on amendments, all that stuff a deliberating body is supposed to do. I mean, I know the actual answer, but what's your answer?
posted by schoolgirl report at 9:26 AM on June 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
Heck, if that's the case why not take some time to work with Democrats on a bill that doesn't need fixing in the first place? You know, hold hearings, floor debate, work on amendments, all that stuff a deliberating body is supposed to do. I mean, I know the actual answer, but what's your answer?
posted by schoolgirl report at 9:26 AM on June 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
i'm afraid all the GOP senators with 'concerns' will all get a little amendment for them so they can say they 'made it better' then vote for it to gut coverage for millions
posted by localhuman at 9:26 AM on June 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by localhuman at 9:26 AM on June 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
Which GOP senators have concerns with the health-care bill
Excuse me but why is Pat Toomey on there highlighted in red as "having concerns"? HE WAS IN THE FUCKING SECRET CABAL. HE WROTE THIS THING.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:26 AM on June 22, 2017 [24 favorites]
Excuse me but why is Pat Toomey on there highlighted in red as "having concerns"? HE WAS IN THE FUCKING SECRET CABAL. HE WROTE THIS THING.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:26 AM on June 22, 2017 [24 favorites]
Thus, I suspect the paucity of the ACHA is partially from necessity
But this so-called "necessity" is paying for a tax cut for the rich, which is not a necessity, it's a choice. An evil choice, and the price is the lives and health of other, less advantaged Americans. While it routinely falls to Democrats to clean up Republican messes, it hardly gives Republicans a pass to vote for this steaming pile with the expectation that Democrats will do the actual work of passing decent legislation later on.
WaPo: Which GOP senators have concerns with the health-care bill
Oh, please. Joshua Marshall points out that Republican moderates always cave. Show me one -- or better yet, three -- willing to go on record as voting against this monstrosity and I may be impressed. Not now.
posted by Gelatin at 9:27 AM on June 22, 2017 [17 favorites]
But this so-called "necessity" is paying for a tax cut for the rich, which is not a necessity, it's a choice. An evil choice, and the price is the lives and health of other, less advantaged Americans. While it routinely falls to Democrats to clean up Republican messes, it hardly gives Republicans a pass to vote for this steaming pile with the expectation that Democrats will do the actual work of passing decent legislation later on.
WaPo: Which GOP senators have concerns with the health-care bill
Oh, please. Joshua Marshall points out that Republican moderates always cave. Show me one -- or better yet, three -- willing to go on record as voting against this monstrosity and I may be impressed. Not now.
posted by Gelatin at 9:27 AM on June 22, 2017 [17 favorites]
If they had 60 votes Republicans would end Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security entirely and redirect every dollar to the rich. If anyone doesn't believe that I would question what the fuck country you've been watching for the past 20 years.
Also welfare, food stamps, unemployment programs, environmental protections and basically everything else except military spending and their own salaries.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:27 AM on June 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
Also welfare, food stamps, unemployment programs, environmental protections and basically everything else except military spending and their own salaries.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:27 AM on June 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
@BraddJaffy: Police drag away protesters, some in wheelchairs, chanting “no cuts to Medicaid!” outside Mitch McConnell's office
Any Democrat who doesn't use this imagery in 2018 should be prevented from making it past the primaries.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:28 AM on June 22, 2017 [83 favorites]
Any Democrat who doesn't use this imagery in 2018 should be prevented from making it past the primaries.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:28 AM on June 22, 2017 [83 favorites]
Jordan Weissmann, Slate Moneybox: Here Are the Six Lines of Text That Could Decimate America’s Biggest Health Care Program
We are talking about a difference of hundreds of billions of dollars over time. Medicaid is America's largest health insurance program by enrollment. It covers 62 million Americans—almost as many as Medicare and the entire individual market combined. It helps the poor, the disabled, the elderly, and—thanks to Obamacare's expansion of it, which Republicans would roll back—many working-class families. As the New York Times recently noted, it insures about half of all births and 40 percent of children. It is indispensible, and Senate Republicans are planning to throttle it.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:28 AM on June 22, 2017 [30 favorites]
We are talking about a difference of hundreds of billions of dollars over time. Medicaid is America's largest health insurance program by enrollment. It covers 62 million Americans—almost as many as Medicare and the entire individual market combined. It helps the poor, the disabled, the elderly, and—thanks to Obamacare's expansion of it, which Republicans would roll back—many working-class families. As the New York Times recently noted, it insures about half of all births and 40 percent of children. It is indispensible, and Senate Republicans are planning to throttle it.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:28 AM on June 22, 2017 [30 favorites]
And right on cue, here's McConnell on the floor of the Senate half an hour ago: "I regret that our Democratic friends made clear early on they did not want to work with us".
In a reality unlike our own, the media would present the many, many examples of McConnell shutting out not only the Democrats but also most of his own party from the process, roll footage of Democratic senators on scavenger hunts looking for the debate rooms for this, then ask him to either retract his statement and shove his own face into the nearest ashtray, or say "Senator, please finish your sentence, as you left out 'by completely surrendering to 100% of our wishes on this,' you goggle-eyed fuckbasket."
posted by delfin at 9:31 AM on June 22, 2017 [27 favorites]
In a reality unlike our own, the media would present the many, many examples of McConnell shutting out not only the Democrats but also most of his own party from the process, roll footage of Democratic senators on scavenger hunts looking for the debate rooms for this, then ask him to either retract his statement and shove his own face into the nearest ashtray, or say "Senator, please finish your sentence, as you left out 'by completely surrendering to 100% of our wishes on this,' you goggle-eyed fuckbasket."
posted by delfin at 9:31 AM on June 22, 2017 [27 favorites]
Show me one -- or better yet, three -- willing to go on record as voting against this monstrosity
They don't even have to vote on the bill! They can vote against holding a vote on it! They can demand hearings first! They could even leave the GOP and change to independent! They could resign!
Every Republican has had and continues to have multiple choices here. They are consistently selecting the most cowardly, evil, and destructive choice available.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:33 AM on June 22, 2017 [65 favorites]
They don't even have to vote on the bill! They can vote against holding a vote on it! They can demand hearings first! They could even leave the GOP and change to independent! They could resign!
Every Republican has had and continues to have multiple choices here. They are consistently selecting the most cowardly, evil, and destructive choice available.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:33 AM on June 22, 2017 [65 favorites]
Ezra Klein: The Senate GOP health bill in one sentence: poor people pay more for worse insurance.
There are a lot of moving parts in the health bill Senate Republicans just released, but the bigger picture is straightforward. Health care expert Larry Levitt condensed it to fewer than 140 characters:posted by tonycpsu at 9:33 AM on June 22, 2017 [35 favorites]Under the Senate bill, low-income people would pay higher premiums for bigger deductibles.That’s it. That’s what this bill does. In fact, it does it over and over again. Policy after policy in the bill is built to achieve the same goal: making poor people pay more for less health insurance. [...]
The Senate GOP’s health plan changes that structure in a few ways. First, it resets the benchmark plan to one that only covers 58 percent of expected health costs. Under Obamacare, the sparest plan that insurers can generally offer at all has to cover at least 60 percent of expected health costs — so the plans subsidized by the GOP bill won’t just have higher deductibles and less coverage than the plans at the center of the ACA; they’ll have higher deductibles and less coverage than the plans at the bottom of the ACA. [...]
Reading the bill, I keep thinking about what Sen. Mitch McConnell said about the Affordable Care Act in January:MCCONNELL: Well, what you need to understand is that there are 25 million Americans who aren’t covered now. If the idea behind Obamacare was to get everyone covered, that’s one of the many failures. In addition to premiums going up, copayments going up, deductibles going up. And many Americans who actually did get insurance when they did not have it before have really bad insurance that they have to pay for, and the deductibles are so high that it’s really not worth much to them. So it is chaotic. The status quo is simply unacceptable.McConnell was right in every criticism he made of the ACA. Then he turned around and wrote a bill that made every single problem he identified worse.
They don't even have to vote on the bill! They can vote against holding a vote on it! They can demand hearings first!
One of the astonishing things to me about this entire process is that members of Congress are supposed to be protective of their own prerogatives. By drafting the bill in secret -- not "private," NPR; secret is true and accurate even if it's also an uncomfortable word for Republicans -- McConnell usurped the power of various Republican committee chairs and members.
It's one thing for a Republican Congress to act with bizarre deference to the Executive Branch, but the entire legislative process of this bill stinks on ice. Do Republican Senators really want their own beer party at the White House so badly?
posted by Gelatin at 9:37 AM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
One of the astonishing things to me about this entire process is that members of Congress are supposed to be protective of their own prerogatives. By drafting the bill in secret -- not "private," NPR; secret is true and accurate even if it's also an uncomfortable word for Republicans -- McConnell usurped the power of various Republican committee chairs and members.
It's one thing for a Republican Congress to act with bizarre deference to the Executive Branch, but the entire legislative process of this bill stinks on ice. Do Republican Senators really want their own beer party at the White House so badly?
posted by Gelatin at 9:37 AM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
McConnell was right in every criticism he made of the ACA. Then he turned around and wrote a bill that made every single problem he identified worse.
It's also worth noting that inasmuch as McConnell is right, it's because Republicans have refused to consider any improvements or even routine fixes to the ACA. If they truly are, as corb speculated, expecting Democrats to step up and pass a measure to mitigate the Republican atrocity, their cynicism is even more profound than I had imagined.
posted by Gelatin at 9:41 AM on June 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
It's also worth noting that inasmuch as McConnell is right, it's because Republicans have refused to consider any improvements or even routine fixes to the ACA. If they truly are, as corb speculated, expecting Democrats to step up and pass a measure to mitigate the Republican atrocity, their cynicism is even more profound than I had imagined.
posted by Gelatin at 9:41 AM on June 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
They want tax cuts for the rich that badly. They're willing to give up everything, their dignity, their legislative powers, the Constitution itself, even the very sovereignty of the United States, for tax cuts. That's the only thing that matters.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:41 AM on June 22, 2017 [38 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:41 AM on June 22, 2017 [38 favorites]
They want tax cuts for the rich that badly. They're willing to give up everything, their dignity, their legislative powers, the Constitution itself, even the very sovereignty of the United States, for tax cuts. That's the only thing that matters.
Which means the wealthy have far too much power in this country. It may be some time before Democrats are in a legislative position to do so, but it's clear they need to go beyond the levels of Bill Clinton's tax increase, on income, capital gains, estate inheritances, and anything else they can think of.
posted by Gelatin at 9:45 AM on June 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
Which means the wealthy have far too much power in this country. It may be some time before Democrats are in a legislative position to do so, but it's clear they need to go beyond the levels of Bill Clinton's tax increase, on income, capital gains, estate inheritances, and anything else they can think of.
posted by Gelatin at 9:45 AM on June 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
There are no good republicans. I know that reflects poorly on me, but just look at the specious reasoning even "good" republicans give yo this bs.
posted by maxwelton at 9:47 AM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by maxwelton at 9:47 AM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
They want tax cuts for the rich that badly. They're willing to give up everything, their dignity, their legislative powers, the Constitution itself, even the very sovereignty of the United States, for tax cuts. That's the only thing that matters.
And to make it worse, taxes aren't even that high here.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:48 AM on June 22, 2017 [30 favorites]
And to make it worse, taxes aren't even that high here.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:48 AM on June 22, 2017 [30 favorites]
They can only pass reconciliation bills by bare majorities. Anything that costs money needs 60 votes, and the Dems are hardly going to give the extra votes to them.
There's a lot of dark talk about McConnell trying a power play to bypass the parliamentarian & reconcile with 51 votes. Which in a season of horrors would unleash a new level of horror on us all, but that's the talk.
posted by scalefree at 9:48 AM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
There's a lot of dark talk about McConnell trying a power play to bypass the parliamentarian & reconcile with 51 votes. Which in a season of horrors would unleash a new level of horror on us all, but that's the talk.
posted by scalefree at 9:48 AM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
One of the reasons Dems are kind of trying to play things close to the chest and not go guns-a-blazin' immediately is they are trying to prevent McConnell from invoking parliamentary fuckery the instant he gets wind they're about to use procedural grounds to slow or stop this.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:49 AM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:49 AM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
As the New York Times recently noted, it insures about half of all births and 40 percent of children. It is indispensible, and Senate Republicans are planning to throttle it.
Having taken placement of a newborn last week, I've been trying to decide how wildly inappropriate it would be to drop a suggestion in the local foster parent support group on Facebook for people call their Senators and ask why they're messing around with our kids' medical coverage.
Short of playing dumb and saying "Gee whiz, can you imagine? I'm gonna get to the bottom of this and I hope you all join me in helping our senators correct this oversight of accidentally breaking Medicaid" I'm struggling to find a way that wouldn't just be tossing a grenade into a non-political group, but this should be a legitimate concern.
Sigh.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 9:50 AM on June 22, 2017 [19 favorites]
Having taken placement of a newborn last week, I've been trying to decide how wildly inappropriate it would be to drop a suggestion in the local foster parent support group on Facebook for people call their Senators and ask why they're messing around with our kids' medical coverage.
Short of playing dumb and saying "Gee whiz, can you imagine? I'm gonna get to the bottom of this and I hope you all join me in helping our senators correct this oversight of accidentally breaking Medicaid" I'm struggling to find a way that wouldn't just be tossing a grenade into a non-political group, but this should be a legitimate concern.
Sigh.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 9:50 AM on June 22, 2017 [19 favorites]
@mikedebonis
Defiant Pelosi: 'I feel very confident in the support that I have in my caucus.'
- More Pelosi: 'I love the arena. I thrive on competition, and I welcome the discussion.'
- More Pelosi: 'I don't think any party should allow the opposite party to choose its leaders.'
- The only Pelosi quote you need: 'I think I'm worth the trouble, quite frankly.'
posted by chris24 at 9:51 AM on June 22, 2017 [81 favorites]
Defiant Pelosi: 'I feel very confident in the support that I have in my caucus.'
- More Pelosi: 'I love the arena. I thrive on competition, and I welcome the discussion.'
- More Pelosi: 'I don't think any party should allow the opposite party to choose its leaders.'
- The only Pelosi quote you need: 'I think I'm worth the trouble, quite frankly.'
posted by chris24 at 9:51 AM on June 22, 2017 [81 favorites]
The Hill: SCOTUS unanimously limits government's ability to strip citizenship from immigrants
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:52 AM on June 22, 2017 [70 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:52 AM on June 22, 2017 [70 favorites]
This is the case in which the DoJ's lawyer argued that the Federal Government would have the right to revoke citizenship from an immigrant who had once driven 5mph over the limit and not turned themselves in.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:54 AM on June 22, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:54 AM on June 22, 2017 [34 favorites]
> Short of playing dumb and saying "Gee whiz, can you imagine? I'm gonna get to the bottom of this and I hope you all join me in helping our senators correct this oversight of accidentally breaking Medicaid" I'm struggling to find a way that wouldn't just be tossing a grenade into a non-political group, but this should be a legitimate concern.
Thought 1: Toss the grenade. toss the grenade toss the grenade toss the grenade.
Thought 2: There's no such thing as a non-political group. there are groups that don't admit how they're political, but there are no non-political groups.
Thought 3: You know who might be good at figuring out how to finesse your intervention in order to maximize its efficacy? Corb would be good at that, I bet. (I don't exactly know her position on the AHCA fight. apologies, corb, if I've misread your politics.)
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:57 AM on June 22, 2017 [20 favorites]
Thought 1: Toss the grenade. toss the grenade toss the grenade toss the grenade.
Thought 2: There's no such thing as a non-political group. there are groups that don't admit how they're political, but there are no non-political groups.
Thought 3: You know who might be good at figuring out how to finesse your intervention in order to maximize its efficacy? Corb would be good at that, I bet. (I don't exactly know her position on the AHCA fight. apologies, corb, if I've misread your politics.)
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:57 AM on June 22, 2017 [20 favorites]
This is a win for law being interpreted as if by humans, not by a robot in a cautionary Asimov short story
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:57 AM on June 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:57 AM on June 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
He made up the tapes. (no shit, right? but he's saying it now)
@realDonaldTrump
With all of the recently reported electronic surveillance, intercepts, unmasking and illegal leaking of information, I have no idea......whether there are "tapes" or recordings of my conversations with James Comey, but I did not make, and do not have, any such recordings.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:57 AM on June 22, 2017 [39 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump
With all of the recently reported electronic surveillance, intercepts, unmasking and illegal leaking of information, I have no idea......whether there are "tapes" or recordings of my conversations with James Comey, but I did not make, and do not have, any such recordings.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:57 AM on June 22, 2017 [39 favorites]
This is the case in which the DoJ's lawyer argued that the Federal Government would have the right to revoke citizenship from an immigrant who had once driven 1mph over the limit and not turned themselves in.
Perhaps, but the SCOTUS agreed to hear it, so hopefully it had a little more merit than that.
posted by Melismata at 10:00 AM on June 22, 2017
Perhaps, but the SCOTUS agreed to hear it, so hopefully it had a little more merit than that.
posted by Melismata at 10:00 AM on June 22, 2017
Pretty sure it's the case deciding whether lying on your naturalization application is grounds for revoking citizenship after the fact.
posted by FakeFreyja at 10:00 AM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by FakeFreyja at 10:00 AM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
@realDonaldTrump
With all of the recently reported electronic surveillance, intercepts, unmasking and illegal leaking of information, I have no idea......whether there are "tapes" or recordings of my conversations with James Comey, but I did not make, and do not have, any such recordings.
I just used the possibility to try to intimidate a witness.
posted by chris24 at 10:00 AM on June 22, 2017 [111 favorites]
With all of the recently reported electronic surveillance, intercepts, unmasking and illegal leaking of information, I have no idea......whether there are "tapes" or recordings of my conversations with James Comey, but I did not make, and do not have, any such recordings.
I just used the possibility to try to intimidate a witness.
posted by chris24 at 10:00 AM on June 22, 2017 [111 favorites]
Heck, if that's the case why not take some time to work with Democrats on a bill that doesn't need fixing in the first place?
So there's a couple things here kind of packed together, and I think it's important to unpack them. I may be wrong, of course, but these are the factors I /think/ are operating right now - not the things I personally would do if I were in power but the things I think they are looking at now.
The first is, what would that look like? In the current climate, what would have to be added to the health care bill in order to get Democrats to cross the aisle? To cross Resistance activists and their own party leadership, what would it take to get 6 Democratic votes, without losing Republican ones? I honestly can't think of anything that Dems would like better than preserving the existing ACA and fighting Trump enough to make that cross - can you?
The second is that the sort of bill that could ideologically work for the Republicans can never work for the Democrats. The core problem with the ACA, from an ideological level, was never the premiums: it was the idea of forcing people to buy health insurance when they didn't want to, and taxing the rich to pay for the poor. That's the entirety of how the Dems funded the ACA, right there, and both of them are hard ideological lines. I don't think Dems always understand this, they think "should we tax the rich to pay for the poor" is a settled question because we've had progressive taxes for 70+ years. But ideologically, it's really not. And when Rs and Ds are coming from essentially 70 years apart, you can't really have meaningful ideological compromise. The Ds can't say "yeah, you're right, let's fund even the most amazing program from cuts to other programs rather than taxes", because taxing the wealthy to pay for the needs of the poor has been a major part of campaign rhetoric since 2011 at the very least. The Rs can't say "yeah, let's tax the rich to pay for it" because that would be ceding major ground to the Ds, and they can't raise taxes across the board without the practical concerns of vulgar Republicans feeling betrayed.
The third is that from a brute cynicism practical level, the needs of Dems and the needs of the vulgar Republicans that elected Trump and are riding high right now are very different. I've talked before about how Trump's only power lies in rural and suburban populism, while Dems' power is in the cities. The only generous bill I could see the most passing and getting the Trump voters' support is one that takes from cities and gives to rural areas. For Dems to sign onto something like that, they would be betraying their core constituencies. But in the current climate, Rs can't take back home something that benefits the cities over the rural areas - or rather, they could, but they'd get primaried from the right.
So the tl;dr I suppose is because our system is now made up of people too far apart to cooperate any more - in many cases for good reasons because they would lose real things.
posted by corb at 10:01 AM on June 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
So there's a couple things here kind of packed together, and I think it's important to unpack them. I may be wrong, of course, but these are the factors I /think/ are operating right now - not the things I personally would do if I were in power but the things I think they are looking at now.
The first is, what would that look like? In the current climate, what would have to be added to the health care bill in order to get Democrats to cross the aisle? To cross Resistance activists and their own party leadership, what would it take to get 6 Democratic votes, without losing Republican ones? I honestly can't think of anything that Dems would like better than preserving the existing ACA and fighting Trump enough to make that cross - can you?
The second is that the sort of bill that could ideologically work for the Republicans can never work for the Democrats. The core problem with the ACA, from an ideological level, was never the premiums: it was the idea of forcing people to buy health insurance when they didn't want to, and taxing the rich to pay for the poor. That's the entirety of how the Dems funded the ACA, right there, and both of them are hard ideological lines. I don't think Dems always understand this, they think "should we tax the rich to pay for the poor" is a settled question because we've had progressive taxes for 70+ years. But ideologically, it's really not. And when Rs and Ds are coming from essentially 70 years apart, you can't really have meaningful ideological compromise. The Ds can't say "yeah, you're right, let's fund even the most amazing program from cuts to other programs rather than taxes", because taxing the wealthy to pay for the needs of the poor has been a major part of campaign rhetoric since 2011 at the very least. The Rs can't say "yeah, let's tax the rich to pay for it" because that would be ceding major ground to the Ds, and they can't raise taxes across the board without the practical concerns of vulgar Republicans feeling betrayed.
The third is that from a brute cynicism practical level, the needs of Dems and the needs of the vulgar Republicans that elected Trump and are riding high right now are very different. I've talked before about how Trump's only power lies in rural and suburban populism, while Dems' power is in the cities. The only generous bill I could see the most passing and getting the Trump voters' support is one that takes from cities and gives to rural areas. For Dems to sign onto something like that, they would be betraying their core constituencies. But in the current climate, Rs can't take back home something that benefits the cities over the rural areas - or rather, they could, but they'd get primaried from the right.
So the tl;dr I suppose is because our system is now made up of people too far apart to cooperate any more - in many cases for good reasons because they would lose real things.
posted by corb at 10:01 AM on June 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
My experience watching the internet explode over DeVos is that the SOMEONE THINK OF THE [MINE, SPECIFICALLY] CHILDREN is super effective. All of Trump's cabinet picks were horrorshows but all kinds of people who don't normally pay any attention to politics and especially not politics at the level of cabinet appointments WENT APESHIT about DeVos, because she directly threatened their own kids' schools. (And people in rural areas rely on public schools, just the same as they rely on the local hospital being there.)
tl;dr: do it, NSAID
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:01 AM on June 22, 2017 [21 favorites]
tl;dr: do it, NSAID
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:01 AM on June 22, 2017 [21 favorites]
Good for you, Nancy Pelosi! Stand firm. #ShePersisted
I think Pelosi knows that jettisoning her would do exactly jack and shit to endear the Democrats to Republicans or the mythical "swing voter" who doesn't really exist anymore.
NSAID: I think that you should go ahead and lob the healthcare for kids grenade. It might do some good. I doubt any foster parent would want to come right out and say, "the hell with our kids, I want tax cuts for the rich!"
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 10:02 AM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
I think Pelosi knows that jettisoning her would do exactly jack and shit to endear the Democrats to Republicans or the mythical "swing voter" who doesn't really exist anymore.
NSAID: I think that you should go ahead and lob the healthcare for kids grenade. It might do some good. I doubt any foster parent would want to come right out and say, "the hell with our kids, I want tax cuts for the rich!"
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 10:02 AM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Maybe he made tapes, and then forgot that he made them because of his degenerative brain disorder, and then told what he thought was a lie to intimidate a witness and obstruct justice, and now he's forgotten he said that again.
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:02 AM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:02 AM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
If we had even a little Democrat support, just a little, like a couple of votes, you’d have everything.
"They call themselves the Democratic Party. Let's just call people what they call themselves and stop the Mickey Mouse here." -- Chris Matthews
posted by kirkaracha at 10:02 AM on June 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
LA Times: [Maslenjak] initially told immigration officials her husband had not served in the Bosnian Serb military. That was a lie, she later conceded, and lower courts upheld a criminal conviction against her. The conviction automatically revoked her citizenship, and she and her husband were deported in October.
The point is that the lie she told was irrelevant as to the question of whether she personally should qualify for US citizenship. The government argued that it showed she lacked moral character and they should be able to revoke her citizenship on that basis. The court unanimously disagreed.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:04 AM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
The point is that the lie she told was irrelevant as to the question of whether she personally should qualify for US citizenship. The government argued that it showed she lacked moral character and they should be able to revoke her citizenship on that basis. The court unanimously disagreed.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:04 AM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
I don't exactly know her position on the AHCA fight. apologies, corb, if I've misread your politics.
My position is currently "fuck Vichy Republicans", so I will cheerfully with a smile on my face assist in defeating any and all Vichy Republican attempts until the fucking fascists are gone and we can reassess the situation. Anyone here is welcome to memail me for any help with messaging for anything. Because I think I understand what the Vichy Republicans are doing does not mean I approve.
posted by corb at 10:04 AM on June 22, 2017 [40 favorites]
My position is currently "fuck Vichy Republicans", so I will cheerfully with a smile on my face assist in defeating any and all Vichy Republican attempts until the fucking fascists are gone and we can reassess the situation. Anyone here is welcome to memail me for any help with messaging for anything. Because I think I understand what the Vichy Republicans are doing does not mean I approve.
posted by corb at 10:04 AM on June 22, 2017 [40 favorites]
All the cool people were talking about his conversations with Comey and he wanted to be part of the cool people discussion so he was just "MAYBE I GOT TAPES" and that was it
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:06 AM on June 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:06 AM on June 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
corb, I'm curious whether there are elected Republicans you strongly support?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:06 AM on June 22, 2017
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:06 AM on June 22, 2017
The Ds can't say "yeah, you're right, let's fund even the most amazing program from cuts to other programs rather than taxes"
Sure they can. Military spending is half the Federal budget. Take some money out of that bucket -- scrap the F-35 boondoggle, for example -- and hey presto, it's done.
Your comment implies that Democrats want to tax the rich as an end in itself. I've seen no evidence that any such thing is true.
But it should be.
posted by Gelatin at 10:07 AM on June 22, 2017 [24 favorites]
Sure they can. Military spending is half the Federal budget. Take some money out of that bucket -- scrap the F-35 boondoggle, for example -- and hey presto, it's done.
Your comment implies that Democrats want to tax the rich as an end in itself. I've seen no evidence that any such thing is true.
But it should be.
posted by Gelatin at 10:07 AM on June 22, 2017 [24 favorites]
> My position is currently "fuck Vichy Republicans", so I will cheerfully with a smile on my face assist in defeating any and all Vichy Republican attempts until the fucking fascists are gone and we can reassess the situation.
aw yeah. now I wanna apologize for the waffling. I knew you didn't like the ACA overmuch but I shouldn't have let that make me think you would approve of anything the fuckers were doing.
a while back someone posted "when do we man the barricades?" right now one of my main answers to that question is "when corb says to."
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:07 AM on June 22, 2017 [15 favorites]
aw yeah. now I wanna apologize for the waffling. I knew you didn't like the ACA overmuch but I shouldn't have let that make me think you would approve of anything the fuckers were doing.
a while back someone posted "when do we man the barricades?" right now one of my main answers to that question is "when corb says to."
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:07 AM on June 22, 2017 [15 favorites]
You can really be bipartisan when one party believes that taxation is theft and the other believes that taxation is absolutely necessary.
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:08 AM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:08 AM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
I don't always align with Pelosi on the issues, but goddamn she has kept the Democratic Minority in fucking line through some very difficult times - lockstep opposition to the horrors and calamities the GOP wants to bestow upon the country. She is exactly who we need in the position at this time. Chuck is a different story.
The DNC and DCC top spots need some new faces, too.
posted by Slap*Happy at 10:09 AM on June 22, 2017 [22 favorites]
The DNC and DCC top spots need some new faces, too.
posted by Slap*Happy at 10:09 AM on June 22, 2017 [22 favorites]
You can really be bipartisan when one party believes that taxation is theft and the other believes that taxation is absolutely necessary.
Thomas freakin' Hobbes was no one's liberal, and he believed that taxation was absolutely necessary.
posted by Gelatin at 10:10 AM on June 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
Thomas freakin' Hobbes was no one's liberal, and he believed that taxation was absolutely necessary.
posted by Gelatin at 10:10 AM on June 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm talking about the two parties, not political philosophies.
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:11 AM on June 22, 2017
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:11 AM on June 22, 2017
Matt Yglesias, Vox: This is the biggest pure giveaway to the rich in the Republican health bill: An incentive for time-traveling job creators.
The single biggest tax cut of the bunch applies exclusively to individuals earning more than $200,000 a year or married couples with combined incomes of more than $250,000. It’s a 3.8 percent tax on net investment income (basically capital gains or dividends) that applies only if your total income is over those threshold points.posted by tonycpsu at 10:12 AM on June 22, 2017 [70 favorites]
But not only does the bill repeal that tax, it repeals it retroactively, to give rich families a tax break on investment income accrued earlier this year as well as investment income going forward. [...]
The key thing here is that there’s absolutely no reason to think a retroactive tax cut will boost job creation and growth. You’re essentially increasing people’s incentives to travel back in time and create jobs earlier in the year. Or, rather, you’re not increasing anyone’s incentive to do anything. You’re just shoveling money into the pockets of the least needy families in the country.
It's low on the scale of awful things about the bill, but I still can't get over the switch to 350% of the federal poverty level for the tax credits. One of the main Republican criticisms of Obamacare was that it didn't do enough for the working class. It was never particularly an honest criticism, and the ACA did a ton for the working class (and having a safety net beneath you is worth something too), but legitimately, there were some people who were doing comparatively well, but living in high cost areas, who were having trouble. There was some vague talk about smoothing out the cliff at 400% FPL for them. Instead, the Republicans just slammed the threshold down to $350%, which cuts off even more of the ostensibly middle class; they'll see a premium hike of thousands of dollars and receive no subsidy.
When I rant about whether voters are knowingly voting in their own self-interest, this is why.
posted by zachlipton at 10:15 AM on June 22, 2017 [25 favorites]
When I rant about whether voters are knowingly voting in their own self-interest, this is why.
posted by zachlipton at 10:15 AM on June 22, 2017 [25 favorites]
I'm talking about the two parties, not political philosophies
Of course, but it's part of the intellectual degeneracy of the Republican Party that the notion that taxes are somehow fundamentally illegitimate is one of their driving concerns. Taxation is specifically empowered in the Constitution; it's flatly insane that the national discourse tolerates the "taxation is theft" concept, let alone from those who profess to be "constitutional originalists."
posted by Gelatin at 10:15 AM on June 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
Of course, but it's part of the intellectual degeneracy of the Republican Party that the notion that taxes are somehow fundamentally illegitimate is one of their driving concerns. Taxation is specifically empowered in the Constitution; it's flatly insane that the national discourse tolerates the "taxation is theft" concept, let alone from those who profess to be "constitutional originalists."
posted by Gelatin at 10:15 AM on June 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
there are groups that don't admit how they're political, but there are no non-political groups.
Agreed, and that's why I haven't just walked away from this idea.
SOMEONE THINK OF THE [MINE, SPECIFICALLY] CHILDREN is super effective.
That's a great point. And to be fair, many foster parents here seem to lean progressive (even among evangelicals), so people might be more receptive to this than I'm imagining.
Appreciate the thoughts all. Now I have to remember how to share information with people on Facebook where I can't link every other word like in a MeFi post! Uh, any suggestions for easy reading on the Senate bill and specifically Medicaid? WaPo has some great reporting on the bill today but they don't seem to have a short summary of what's going on.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 10:17 AM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Agreed, and that's why I haven't just walked away from this idea.
SOMEONE THINK OF THE [MINE, SPECIFICALLY] CHILDREN is super effective.
That's a great point. And to be fair, many foster parents here seem to lean progressive (even among evangelicals), so people might be more receptive to this than I'm imagining.
Appreciate the thoughts all. Now I have to remember how to share information with people on Facebook where I can't link every other word like in a MeFi post! Uh, any suggestions for easy reading on the Senate bill and specifically Medicaid? WaPo has some great reporting on the bill today but they don't seem to have a short summary of what's going on.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 10:17 AM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
The Senate health bill takes what Americans hate about Obamacare and makes it worse
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:23 AM on June 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:23 AM on June 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
John McCain's political career, summed up in two tweets
Spoiler: he's voting for it.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:38 AM on June 22, 2017 [40 favorites]
Spoiler: he's voting for it.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:38 AM on June 22, 2017 [40 favorites]
This was easy to overlook in the Senate bill. There were always provisions for the feds to issue waivers to states for certain Obamacare provisions, but it was limited by the fact that the Obama Administration wasn't going to let states completely screw people over with them, and by a couple of rules in the law. Those rules are gone (and we know how Tom Price feels about screwing people over). You used to need to get the state legislature on board for a waiver, that's gone, and HHS now has to approve them and can't revoke them for eight years.
And the policy folks are starting to question whether the savings are even there, because removing the individual mandate will drive up premiums (sick people will get insurance as long as they possibly can afford it, some healthy people will drop coverage). Since the tax credits are still benchmarked to premium costs (that's something the House tried to undo, but the Senate isn't going there), higher premiums cost the government more. That's the price of "freedom," right?
Another small but significantly change at the end of the bill is that the cost-sharing reduction subsides are gone. You know how Sean Spicer kept complaining about people who have insurance cards but can't afford to use them because of the deductibles and co-pays? This was the thing that reduced deductibles and co-pays for people making under 250% FPL. Gone.
Sarah Binder: Yes, Mitch McConnell’s secretive lawmaking is really unusual — in these 4 ways (and has the side benefit of hoping Trump doesn't find out about it on the news and open his mouth)
Richard Rubin/WSJ: Senate Health Bill Gives Huge Tax Cuts to Businesses, High-Income Households. Turns out some of the tax cuts are retroactive, so congrats, high income folks who sold stock earlier this year.
posted by zachlipton at 10:41 AM on June 22, 2017 [35 favorites]
And the policy folks are starting to question whether the savings are even there, because removing the individual mandate will drive up premiums (sick people will get insurance as long as they possibly can afford it, some healthy people will drop coverage). Since the tax credits are still benchmarked to premium costs (that's something the House tried to undo, but the Senate isn't going there), higher premiums cost the government more. That's the price of "freedom," right?
Another small but significantly change at the end of the bill is that the cost-sharing reduction subsides are gone. You know how Sean Spicer kept complaining about people who have insurance cards but can't afford to use them because of the deductibles and co-pays? This was the thing that reduced deductibles and co-pays for people making under 250% FPL. Gone.
Sarah Binder: Yes, Mitch McConnell’s secretive lawmaking is really unusual — in these 4 ways (and has the side benefit of hoping Trump doesn't find out about it on the news and open his mouth)
Richard Rubin/WSJ: Senate Health Bill Gives Huge Tax Cuts to Businesses, High-Income Households. Turns out some of the tax cuts are retroactive, so congrats, high income folks who sold stock earlier this year.
The Senate’s health-care bill repeals hundreds of billions of dollars in taxes on businesses and high-income households and includes a retroactive cut in capital-gains taxes.A health care protest is planed at DCA airport tonight from 5-7 as Senators fly home.
The tax portions of the proposal, a draft of which was released on Thursday in advance of a possible vote next week, are very similar to the elements in the version the House passed last month. The plan operates like the 2010 Affordable Care Act in reverse. Instead of raising taxes to pay for expanded insurance coverage, it reduces coverage and cuts taxes.
posted by zachlipton at 10:41 AM on June 22, 2017 [35 favorites]
McCain is a minor but important organ of the monster, functioning much like the dangling lure of an anglerfish: he draws and distracts all us hungry little shrimp with his faint but hopeful glow as the great jaws snap us up.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:43 AM on June 22, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:43 AM on June 22, 2017 [15 favorites]
CNN's source says there are three solid no votes including Paul, in which case the bill would fail.
Um, don't stop calling your Senators though
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:53 AM on June 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
Um, don't stop calling your Senators though
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:53 AM on June 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
Paul being a solid "no" presents a pitfall in that anything done to moderate the bill in order to bring Murkowski and Collins on board will only make him more angry that he can't buy your dying grandmother's hospital bed and have her arrested for trespassing.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:55 AM on June 22, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:55 AM on June 22, 2017 [23 favorites]
Yes, but see Mitch McConnell’s health care bill is designed to win skeptical Republicans. There's no actual health policy baby in this bathwater, just tax cuts, so they can keep changing things to try to get the votes without regard for its actual effects on human lives. Paul very well may never get on board with anything that keeps the tax credits in any form, but others might, and McConnell can give out two passes and still get away with it.
posted by zachlipton at 10:57 AM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by zachlipton at 10:57 AM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
CNN's source says there are three solid no votes including Paul, in which case the bill would fail.
Damned Democratic Senators and their obstructionism.
posted by Rykey at 10:58 AM on June 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
Damned Democratic Senators and their obstructionism.
posted by Rykey at 10:58 AM on June 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
[Medicaid] is indispensible, and Senate Republicans are planning to throttle it.
Look, that's just not accurate. They're planning to drown it in a bathtub.
posted by nickmark at 10:59 AM on June 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
Look, that's just not accurate. They're planning to drown it in a bathtub.
posted by nickmark at 10:59 AM on June 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
Gelatin Your comment implies that Democrats want to tax the rich as an end in itself. I've seen no evidence that any such thing is true.
Regrettably you are correct. I only wish the Democrats supported taxing the rich as an end in itself.
I do favor taxing the rich as an end in itself. I'd especially like to see a massive estate tax to prevent the problem of multigenerational wealth transfer producing an aristocracy.
Personal anecdote time. I know a person who is rich. Not Bill Gates rich, but rich as in multiple hundreds of millions of dollars. He's a nice person, I like him just fine. I'm friends with one of his children.
And I am philosophically opposed to the fact that my friend, the rich kid, gets to coast through life amassing ever more money simply because money attracts more money and once you've got ten or fifteen million and an even semi-competent money manager you are virtually guaranteed to keep getting richer forever and ever.
I don't say this because I dislike my rich friend. He's a great guy. And he's socially aware, politically active, and using his money for a variety of good causes.
But I'm opposed to an aristocracy of wealth, and that's what inheritance of billions produces.
I'd like to see a 90% or 99% tax rate on all inheritances over a few million dollars because I believe in meritocracy and a society of equals not aristocracy and a society of serfs and lords.
So yeah, chalk me up for taxing the rich as an end in itself.
posted by sotonohito at 10:59 AM on June 22, 2017 [67 favorites]
Regrettably you are correct. I only wish the Democrats supported taxing the rich as an end in itself.
I do favor taxing the rich as an end in itself. I'd especially like to see a massive estate tax to prevent the problem of multigenerational wealth transfer producing an aristocracy.
Personal anecdote time. I know a person who is rich. Not Bill Gates rich, but rich as in multiple hundreds of millions of dollars. He's a nice person, I like him just fine. I'm friends with one of his children.
And I am philosophically opposed to the fact that my friend, the rich kid, gets to coast through life amassing ever more money simply because money attracts more money and once you've got ten or fifteen million and an even semi-competent money manager you are virtually guaranteed to keep getting richer forever and ever.
I don't say this because I dislike my rich friend. He's a great guy. And he's socially aware, politically active, and using his money for a variety of good causes.
But I'm opposed to an aristocracy of wealth, and that's what inheritance of billions produces.
I'd like to see a 90% or 99% tax rate on all inheritances over a few million dollars because I believe in meritocracy and a society of equals not aristocracy and a society of serfs and lords.
So yeah, chalk me up for taxing the rich as an end in itself.
posted by sotonohito at 10:59 AM on June 22, 2017 [67 favorites]
Mitch McConnell is a Repulsive Piece of Shit
The Republican Party in 2017: “please let us sign your death warrant in peace.”posted by tonycpsu at 10:59 AM on June 22, 2017 [43 favorites]
@t_mcallister:
all this work just to pass a massively unpopular bill that will result in thousands of avoidable deathsposted by zombieflanders at 10:59 AM on June 22, 2017 [65 favorites]
imagine if they'd worked so hard for something people actually liked, or that would help people.
I realize governing a country this size is almost impossibly complex, but also some things are pretty straightforward.
Paul being a solid "no" presents a pitfall in that anything done to moderate the bill in order to bring Murkowski and Collins on board will only make him more angry that he can't buy your dying grandmother's hospital bed and have her arrested for trespassing.
Right, so they're just going to make even worse to accommodate Rand, like they did in the House, since there is almost nothing they could do that would make the other 49 Republicans not vote for it.
posted by Copronymus at 11:05 AM on June 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
Right, so they're just going to make even worse to accommodate Rand, like they did in the House, since there is almost nothing they could do that would make the other 49 Republicans not vote for it.
posted by Copronymus at 11:05 AM on June 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
An additional tactic for opposing AHCA:
Call your state governor and representatives, especially if they are Republicans/DINOs and stress that the bill will put a lot of pressure on state budgets - meaning that state taxes will likely have to increase ("I'm worried about state taxes going up after our state loses federal healthcare funds."). Are state-level GOPers really ok with having the choice of "deny healthcare to people or raise their taxes" punted off onto them by some DC bureaucrats? "Mitch McConnell wants to save his own job, and he's putting our [state budget/GOP control of the legislature/etc] on the line to do it." Call the state Republican Party too -- are they going to put the needs of DC Republican Elite Senators above the needs of those holding state-level seats?
I haven't seen any evidence that GOP reps are swayed by humanitarian concerns. But they have shown ample evidence they can be swayed by greed and self interest.
posted by melissasaurus at 11:08 AM on June 22, 2017 [26 favorites]
Call your state governor and representatives, especially if they are Republicans/DINOs and stress that the bill will put a lot of pressure on state budgets - meaning that state taxes will likely have to increase ("I'm worried about state taxes going up after our state loses federal healthcare funds."). Are state-level GOPers really ok with having the choice of "deny healthcare to people or raise their taxes" punted off onto them by some DC bureaucrats? "Mitch McConnell wants to save his own job, and he's putting our [state budget/GOP control of the legislature/etc] on the line to do it." Call the state Republican Party too -- are they going to put the needs of DC Republican Elite Senators above the needs of those holding state-level seats?
I haven't seen any evidence that GOP reps are swayed by humanitarian concerns. But they have shown ample evidence they can be swayed by greed and self interest.
posted by melissasaurus at 11:08 AM on June 22, 2017 [26 favorites]
Not A Debating Club
These days we mostly refer to "bothsidesing" as the need to come up with a supposedly Equal and Opposite Bad thing a Democrat dude once in 1963 every time a Republican does something Bad. But a worse kind of bothsidesing is that Both Sides have serious lawmakers who just want what is best for the country but have ideological difference about how best to achieve that. So policy debates can be framed as "the free market" versus "big government."posted by tonycpsu at 11:09 AM on June 22, 2017 [58 favorites]
But Republicans don't think poor people should have health care. They think people who get sick should die if they can't pay for treatment. Sure it's "the free market" (to some degree, nothing in our health care system is really "the free market"), but only in the sense that if you can't pay you don't get to buy the product. Fair enough for Maseratis, but in this case the product is "living."
Um, don't stop calling your Senators though
I cannot emphasize this strongly enough, and hope that every single person reading the megathread is calling both of their senators on the reg, Republican and Democrat.
It's not just cathartic. It's not just satisfying. This bill is absolute shit, and would destroy basic democratic norms on the way to callously and well-tax-cuts-are-more-important murdering hundreds of thousands of living, feeling, thinking humans.
Calling senators is, to me, the minimum action required of moral human beings on this. Minimum.
posted by joyceanmachine at 11:11 AM on June 22, 2017 [17 favorites]
I cannot emphasize this strongly enough, and hope that every single person reading the megathread is calling both of their senators on the reg, Republican and Democrat.
It's not just cathartic. It's not just satisfying. This bill is absolute shit, and would destroy basic democratic norms on the way to callously and well-tax-cuts-are-more-important murdering hundreds of thousands of living, feeling, thinking humans.
Calling senators is, to me, the minimum action required of moral human beings on this. Minimum.
posted by joyceanmachine at 11:11 AM on June 22, 2017 [17 favorites]
Are state-level GOPers really ok with having the choice of "deny healthcare to people or raise their taxes" punted off onto them by some DC bureaucrats?
They won't raise taxes, they'll still deny them health care and cut all that unnecessary un-Christian socialism like feeding the hungry, caring for the sick, and helping the poor.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:11 AM on June 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
They won't raise taxes, they'll still deny them health care and cut all that unnecessary un-Christian socialism like feeding the hungry, caring for the sick, and helping the poor.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:11 AM on June 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
Calling my senators for blocking the AHCA is so weird, because I'm in MA, so it's basically "thanks for continuing to make Mitch McConnell's life miserable and doing everything possible to stop passing this utter travesty of a pure evil bill". I wish I could do more, but short of telling my parents to call Ron Johnston's office every day to yell at him, I don't know. (On the other hand, my dad told me he was so angry after the election he wrote a letter. Like, handwritten. So he might enjoy expressing his displeasure more frequently. I could possibly sell it to my mother as stress relief.)
posted by ultranos at 11:12 AM on June 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by ultranos at 11:12 AM on June 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, generally praised the bill, and said it was better than Obamacare in "100 ways."
SCREAMING
posted by joyceanmachine at 11:13 AM on June 22, 2017 [18 favorites]
SCREAMING
posted by joyceanmachine at 11:13 AM on June 22, 2017 [18 favorites]
The Week: 9 Trump promises the GOP's 'Better Care' act breaks
I wish we could have nationwide ads on this. Trump promised the moon, and this bill should be explicitly tied to every one of his promises being broken.
posted by zachlipton at 11:13 AM on June 22, 2017 [21 favorites]
I wish we could have nationwide ads on this. Trump promised the moon, and this bill should be explicitly tied to every one of his promises being broken.
posted by zachlipton at 11:13 AM on June 22, 2017 [21 favorites]
I keep hearing policy proposals coming from the GOP that will create massive incentives for rich people to sell off investments. Eventually all those sales are going to lead to a minor but sustained drop in the markets overall, that will in turn further incentivise people to sell their stocks right-the-fuck-now before it gets worse. "What if tax rates go back up and the market keeps dropping? Better sell now when I can maximize my own bottom line." will be the thinking and they'll be right.
That could cause a more sustained drop which would lead to an outright recession that will likely pop some bubble we've been brewing. Maybe it'll be commercial real estate, maybe something else we won't see coming.
I worry about the effects of that both on me and my community but also as Trump has previously state a preference for times of economic crisis and I worry that a recession would provide the fertile ground needed for him and the GOP to put democracy down for good.
posted by VTX at 11:13 AM on June 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
That could cause a more sustained drop which would lead to an outright recession that will likely pop some bubble we've been brewing. Maybe it'll be commercial real estate, maybe something else we won't see coming.
I worry about the effects of that both on me and my community but also as Trump has previously state a preference for times of economic crisis and I worry that a recession would provide the fertile ground needed for him and the GOP to put democracy down for good.
posted by VTX at 11:13 AM on June 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
State-level Republicans may even be glad to have an outside boogeyman to blame in front of the rubes (that boogeyman will be Obamacare, Democrats whose obstructionism forced a "compromise" reconciliation bill, and even moderate GOP senators from out of state, not McConnell) while they destroy public education, housing, safety nets, etc., following the lead of Kansas and Oklahoma.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:14 AM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:14 AM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Josh Marshall: Voting Rights Defeatism is Toxic
posted by Chrysostom at 11:14 AM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 11:14 AM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
following the lead of Kansas and Oklahoma.
Except that it's been acknowledged that Kansas was a huge failure and people are being voted out accordingly, no?
posted by Melismata at 11:16 AM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
Except that it's been acknowledged that Kansas was a huge failure and people are being voted out accordingly, no?
posted by Melismata at 11:16 AM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
I mean, we're talking about the kind of people for whom the idea of the government providing even the basics of human rights--food, clean water, health, choosing a partner--is at best an academic exercise (although putting the rights of say, guns, above that is of course etched in stone). And that's just the ones largely considered to be "moderates."
posted by zombieflanders at 11:16 AM on June 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 11:16 AM on June 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
Seconding ultranos above, I called Franken and Klobuchar's offices to voice support but, as much as I appreciate having the best Senators ever, it feels like not enough. So I'm pestering my WI friends to call Johnson's office :)
posted by Bacon Bit at 11:17 AM on June 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Bacon Bit at 11:17 AM on June 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
The only concessions those four are looking for would be to make the bill even worse.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:19 AM on June 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:19 AM on June 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
Yeah, this is all just playacting.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:20 AM on June 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 11:20 AM on June 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
If their objection is that it "doesn't repeal the ACA", then fixing it so that it does means they're down 7 votes instead because you can't pass a real ACA repeal through reconciliation.
posted by 0xFCAF at 11:21 AM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by 0xFCAF at 11:21 AM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yeah, if that's the coalition then this is total PR posturing. They're not so stupid as to let Obamacare stay in place indefinitely as-is out of purism, any more than Cruz was willing to keep the federal government closed indefinitely in his shutdown stunt. They'll be happy with the tax cuts for the rich, end of essential health benefits and decimation of Medicare once they finish strutting for the cameras.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:23 AM on June 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:23 AM on June 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
Up to four now, per the four themselves, who have put out a press statement: Mike Lee, Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, Ron Johnson.
I mentioned Johnson yesterday, and I'm pleasantly surprised to see him still singing this tune now that the text of the bill has been released. His statement from yesterday is loading now and says, in part:
Yeah, this is all just playacting.
Probably, yeah.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 11:23 AM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
I mentioned Johnson yesterday, and I'm pleasantly surprised to see him still singing this tune now that the text of the bill has been released. His statement from yesterday is loading now and says, in part:
Within two meetings I saw the wide spectrum of opinions within the Republican conference trying to fix this mess that is Obamacare. My suggestion was let's break this into two parts. Let's pass something to stabilize the insurance markets that are literally collapsing under Obamacare. That was my counsel two months ago.An interesting twist on Johnson is that he's said that he won't be running for senate again after this term.
Yeah, this is all just playacting.
Probably, yeah.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 11:23 AM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
The main effect of those "concerned" Senators -- and this will include the moderates, when they finally make their statements -- is to extend the period of uncertainty, where some Democrats can persuade themselves it won't pass and are therefore less likely to drive out to airport protests or chain themselves to doors, a bit closer towards the actual vote day.
posted by chortly at 11:24 AM on June 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by chortly at 11:24 AM on June 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
> Up to four now, per the four themselves, who have put out a press statement: Mike Lee, Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, Ron Johnson.
Tomorrow's "cutesy names for pork barrel provisions inserted to placate hostage Tea Party hostage takers" today:
Mike Lee: The Beehive State Bribe
Ted Cruz: The Texas Thimblerig
Rand Paul: The Kentucky Kickback
Ron Johnson: The Wisconsin Windfall
posted by tonycpsu at 11:25 AM on June 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
Tomorrow's "cutesy names for pork barrel provisions inserted to placate hostage Tea Party hostage takers" today:
Mike Lee: The Beehive State Bribe
Ted Cruz: The Texas Thimblerig
Rand Paul: The Kentucky Kickback
Ron Johnson: The Wisconsin Windfall
posted by tonycpsu at 11:25 AM on June 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
I called Senators Grassley and Ernst. I have not had to leave voicemails in the past but nobody appears to be picking up the phones today. Go figure. >:|
posted by scottatdrake at 11:26 AM on June 22, 2017
posted by scottatdrake at 11:26 AM on June 22, 2017
They're not so stupid as to let Obamacare stay in place indefinitely as-is out of purism
But they might be willing to do it due to the AHCA's massive unpopularity, out of political self interest. Plus they can spend future years continuing to complain about "Obamacare" rather than having to criticize something they voted for. They can just say that the Washington swamp wouldn't let them fully repeal ACA.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:28 AM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
But they might be willing to do it due to the AHCA's massive unpopularity, out of political self interest. Plus they can spend future years continuing to complain about "Obamacare" rather than having to criticize something they voted for. They can just say that the Washington swamp wouldn't let them fully repeal ACA.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:28 AM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
State-level Republicans may even be glad to have an outside boogeyman to blame in front of the rubes
Here are some reasons that state-level GOP reps might care about AHCA:
-nearly every state requires a balanced budget
-most states cannot use dynamic scoring in creating that balanced budget
-many of these states' budgets are precarious AF already
-state reps are much more vulnerable to wave elections than US Senators (you can point out the state and local seats Dems have already flipped this year)
posted by melissasaurus at 11:30 AM on June 22, 2017 [18 favorites]
Here are some reasons that state-level GOP reps might care about AHCA:
-nearly every state requires a balanced budget
-most states cannot use dynamic scoring in creating that balanced budget
-many of these states' budgets are precarious AF already
-state reps are much more vulnerable to wave elections than US Senators (you can point out the state and local seats Dems have already flipped this year)
posted by melissasaurus at 11:30 AM on June 22, 2017 [18 favorites]
I am still struggling to wrap my head around the fact that so many elected officials are hellbent on passing literally, not figuratively literally, literally literally, a bill the effects of which are so heartless that you couldn't put this policy in the mouth of a comic book villain.
posted by bardophile at 11:30 AM on June 22, 2017 [50 favorites]
posted by bardophile at 11:30 AM on June 22, 2017 [50 favorites]
as Trump has previously state a preference for times of economic crisis and I worry that a recession would provide the fertile ground needed for him and the GOP to put democracy down for good.
This seems astonishingly unlikely to me. How is it going to be possible for a president with approval ratings so far underwater that they look like a cutaway diagram of the Mariana Trench to transform that into the mass populist support necessary to seize unelected power, during a recession he triggered? I just don't understand what sequence of events could bring that about, particularly given their inability to control the narrative even in the absence of any major external pressure.
posted by howfar at 11:30 AM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
This seems astonishingly unlikely to me. How is it going to be possible for a president with approval ratings so far underwater that they look like a cutaway diagram of the Mariana Trench to transform that into the mass populist support necessary to seize unelected power, during a recession he triggered? I just don't understand what sequence of events could bring that about, particularly given their inability to control the narrative even in the absence of any major external pressure.
posted by howfar at 11:30 AM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
They do not appear to have been unsuccessful at it so far.
posted by Artw at 11:31 AM on June 22, 2017
posted by Artw at 11:31 AM on June 22, 2017
I take five prescribed medications every day to manage my conditions of chronic migraine, major depressive disorder, fibromyalgia, and complex regional pain syndrome. If I miss any doses, my mental and physical health take a dramatic downturn. If I am no longer able to afford these medications with our ACA coverage, my wrist pain *alone* will eradicate my ability to do either of my jobs, causing my unemployment and a major worsening of our family's financial status.
I truly and honestly have no words for the terror I feel today.
posted by altopower at 11:32 AM on June 22, 2017 [63 favorites]
I truly and honestly have no words for the terror I feel today.
posted by altopower at 11:32 AM on June 22, 2017 [63 favorites]
Called my Senator, Collins ME and got through to her Portland office on the second call. I found myself getting angrier and angrier as I made my points to her staffer. The staffer was polite and friendly but just saying the words out loud made the policies revealed more and more criminal. The staffer said that Collins hadn't made a decision yet and was waiting on the CBO score. I replied that anyone who can't make a decision based on the inhumane policies revealed today has blood in their hands.
Still shaking with anger.
posted by merocet at 11:32 AM on June 22, 2017 [82 favorites]
Still shaking with anger.
posted by merocet at 11:32 AM on June 22, 2017 [82 favorites]
I'm sure this has been said upthread, but it's worth repeating. I'm rushed, so copying and pasting from the NYT comment section:
No, there's not war against women, of course not, that's just a paranoid liberal fantasy
posted by jokeefe at 11:33 AM on June 22, 2017 [77 favorites]
1. It makes it illegal under the federal TAX CODE for abortion services to be covered by your health insurance plan, except in cases of rape, incest or to save the life of the mother.And is it true that the bill defunds Planned Parenthood?
2. It eliminates federal tax credits for people whose employee-sponsored health insurance plans OFFER abortion services (except in cases of rape, incest or to save the life of the mother). In box 12 of your W-2, the amount your employer-sponsored health insurance premiums is given. This is non-taxable. With this bill, if your plan OFFERS abortion services, that will now be taxable income.
No, there's not war against women, of course not, that's just a paranoid liberal fantasy
posted by jokeefe at 11:33 AM on June 22, 2017 [77 favorites]
Pics of disabled protesters getting arrested outside McConnell's office say all that needs saying.
posted by emjaybee at 11:34 AM on June 22, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 11:34 AM on June 22, 2017 [34 favorites]
my senators are strongly against this turd and i already called them thanking them for their opposition. is there any point in calling senators that aren't mine?
posted by entropicamericana at 11:34 AM on June 22, 2017
posted by entropicamericana at 11:34 AM on June 22, 2017
> my senators are strongly against this turd and i already called them thanking them for their opposition. is there any point in calling senators that aren't mine?
None whatsoever. Spend that time encouraging friends/family members who haven't called their Senators to do so.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:36 AM on June 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
None whatsoever. Spend that time encouraging friends/family members who haven't called their Senators to do so.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:36 AM on June 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
a recession is probably on its way already - and if these tax cuts are enough to cause a sell-off, then that's another constituency that will be pissed, although the republicans can probably spin that one - but the smart money will know better
actually, i still think fascism is more likely to come from the corporate center than the right or the left and the combined efforts of trump and the GOP will make it more likely to happen
posted by pyramid termite at 11:37 AM on June 22, 2017
actually, i still think fascism is more likely to come from the corporate center than the right or the left and the combined efforts of trump and the GOP will make it more likely to happen
posted by pyramid termite at 11:37 AM on June 22, 2017
eh, 228 years, we had a good run.1
--
1. we did not actually have a good run
posted by entropicamericana at 11:38 AM on June 22, 2017 [39 favorites]
--
1. we did not actually have a good run
posted by entropicamericana at 11:38 AM on June 22, 2017 [39 favorites]
Calling my senators for blocking the AHCA is so weird, because I'm in MA [...] I wish I could do more
Some suggestions!
Some suggestions!
- Charlie Baker's pushing for cuts to MassHealth, so you can call him. Even better, you can comment on posts on his FB page or tweet at him to publicly show your displeasure and tie him to national Republicans. He's up for re-election next year.
- If you're in eastern MA, support protesters in Maine. Perhaps try contacting some Maine-based Indivisible Groups and see what specifically you can do.
- I've had luck making FB posts and tagging friends that I know live in or come from a relevant state, and asking them to tag others in that state. Asking for help from specific people may be socially uncomfortable but it's a lot more effective than a general call (which can cause diffusion of responsibility). When I've done this before I've usually generated at least a half dozen calls in swing states, and once or twice have engaged a friend in much more significant activism.
> eliminates federal tax credits for people whose employe[r]-sponsored health insurance plans OFFER abortion services (except in cases of rape, incest or to save the life of the mother). In box 12 of your W-2, the amount your employer-sponsored health insurance premiums is given. This is non-taxable. With this bill, if your plan OFFERS abortion services, that will now be taxable income.
Maybe this might be the wake up call to people sitting pretty with employer-provided insurance? Surely ... surely this?
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:41 AM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Maybe this might be the wake up call to people sitting pretty with employer-provided insurance? Surely ... surely this?
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:41 AM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
I found myself getting angrier and angrier as I made my points to her staffer.
This happens to me every time I write a letter or fax to Pat Toomey. I start out all "Dear Sir, I am writing today to express my concerns..." and end up "...AND YOU ARE A MONSTROUS, EVIL, UNPATRIOTIC, UNCHRISTIAN HUMAN BEING AND YOU CAN FUCK RIGHT OFF AND KEEP FUCKING OFF FOREVER!!!"
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:42 AM on June 22, 2017 [51 favorites]
This happens to me every time I write a letter or fax to Pat Toomey. I start out all "Dear Sir, I am writing today to express my concerns..." and end up "...AND YOU ARE A MONSTROUS, EVIL, UNPATRIOTIC, UNCHRISTIAN HUMAN BEING AND YOU CAN FUCK RIGHT OFF AND KEEP FUCKING OFF FOREVER!!!"
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:42 AM on June 22, 2017 [51 favorites]
Maybe this might be the wake up call to people sitting pretty with employer-provided insurance? Surely ... surely this?
Hah. Sure. Except those people sitting pretty are also the ones who think they, personally, will never need or want an abortion.
posted by lydhre at 11:43 AM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
Hah. Sure. Except those people sitting pretty are also the ones who think they, personally, will never need or want an abortion.
posted by lydhre at 11:43 AM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
This is a good quick chart from Politico about what's in the bill. This is a good one from the NYT. I wish there were some more graphs that show the reductions, but some good at-a-glance views of what they want to change.
I truly and honestly have no words for the terror I feel today.
I'm so sorry you're being put through this. If you're comfortable doing so, sharing personal stories like yours with your elected reps is important and useful. If they're Republicans, you're telling them precisely how the bill will hurt you personally, which makes you an authentic and persuasive caller, and if even they're Democrats, you're giving them ammunition they can use for floor speeches and when talking about the base cruelty of this bill. And we'll all call for you too.
posted by zachlipton at 11:44 AM on June 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
I truly and honestly have no words for the terror I feel today.
I'm so sorry you're being put through this. If you're comfortable doing so, sharing personal stories like yours with your elected reps is important and useful. If they're Republicans, you're telling them precisely how the bill will hurt you personally, which makes you an authentic and persuasive caller, and if even they're Democrats, you're giving them ammunition they can use for floor speeches and when talking about the base cruelty of this bill. And we'll all call for you too.
posted by zachlipton at 11:44 AM on June 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
In box 12 of your W-2, the amount your employer-sponsored health insurance premiums is given. This is non-taxable. With this bill, if your plan OFFERS abortion services, that will now be taxable income.
This is not correct. There are many horrible things about this bill. But, from my reading, it doesn't change the employer-provided insurance income exclusion (IRC Secs. 105 and 106) in any way (your employer just won't be offered a plan that covers abortion by the insurance company).
posted by melissasaurus at 11:46 AM on June 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
This is not correct. There are many horrible things about this bill. But, from my reading, it doesn't change the employer-provided insurance income exclusion (IRC Secs. 105 and 106) in any way (your employer just won't be offered a plan that covers abortion by the insurance company).
posted by melissasaurus at 11:46 AM on June 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
> Including (amazingly??) 'Democrats aren't putting aside political considerations to help repeal and replace Obamacare!'
Republicans understand and exploit the anchoring effect. I am certain a lot of so-called independent voters will hear this and forget that the debate should be relative to the status quo, not relative to the baseline of what all Republicans want.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:49 AM on June 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
Republicans understand and exploit the anchoring effect. I am certain a lot of so-called independent voters will hear this and forget that the debate should be relative to the status quo, not relative to the baseline of what all Republicans want.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:49 AM on June 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
Pics of disabled protesters getting arrested outside McConnell's office say all that needs saying.
The entire #ADAPTandResist sequence on Twitter right now is pretty moving.
posted by chortly at 11:49 AM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
The entire #ADAPTandResist sequence on Twitter right now is pretty moving.
posted by chortly at 11:49 AM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
2. It eliminates federal tax credits for people whose employee-sponsored health insurance plans OFFER abortion services (except in cases of rape, incest or to save the life of the mother). In box 12 of your W-2, the amount your employer-sponsored health insurance premiums is given. This is non-taxable. With this bill, if your plan OFFERS abortion services, that will now be taxable income.
I'm not sure this is quite right. My uninformed reading of the bill that plans purchased on the individual market with the premium tax credits or plans purchased through the small business health insurance tax credit can't cover abortion, but the normal tax destructibility of employer-provided plans is unchanged and has no such new restriction.
Which is still quite shitty, but not shitty in this specific way.
posted by zachlipton at 11:49 AM on June 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm not sure this is quite right. My uninformed reading of the bill that plans purchased on the individual market with the premium tax credits or plans purchased through the small business health insurance tax credit can't cover abortion, but the normal tax destructibility of employer-provided plans is unchanged and has no such new restriction.
Which is still quite shitty, but not shitty in this specific way.
posted by zachlipton at 11:49 AM on June 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
Why Ossoff Lost: The View From A Georgia 6th District Voter
As a radical democrat in the tradition of Frantz Fanon, Ernesto Laclau, Rosa Luxemburg, Chantal Mouffe, Roberto Unger, Cornel West and Walt Whitman, I’ve always felt unrepresented living in the conservative 6th district. So the prospect of having democrat representation, even in the form of a moderate like Ossoff, excited me.posted by kirkaracha at 11:51 AM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
But if I’m honest, what would excite me more is having a real grassroots political movement come into form that is not fueled by big outside money. A movement where the values of progressive minded working class people are taken serious. A movement where people are valued over the fiscal bottom line. A movement where the uplift of poor people is a major part of the policy agenda. A movement where empowerment of the demos and the education of the citizenry becomes a national initiative. A movement that advocates for America to finally become as good as its promise.
Until a movement like this comes democrats will continue to lose and people like me who live in districts like the Georgia 6th will continue to feel unrepresented and under-served.
The anchoring effect can work both ways too, "moderates" get to offer a few token amendments to "improve" the bill and say they did good work, while the Ron Johnsons and Mike Lees of the world get to add in full defunding of Planned Parenthood and make the same claim to their ghoulish base.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:54 AM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:54 AM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
But if I’m honest, what would excite me more is having a real grassroots political movement come into form that is not fueled by big outside money. A movement where the values of progressive minded working class people are taken serious. A movement where people are valued over the fiscal bottom line. A movement where the uplift of poor people is a major part of the policy agenda. A movement where empowerment of the demos and the education of the citizenry becomes a national initiative. A movement that advocates for America to finally become as good as its promise.
DCCC spends money? OUTSIDERS. DCCC doesn't spend money? SABOTEURS.
It's the very definition of Democrats: damned if you do and damned if you don't.
posted by lydhre at 11:55 AM on June 22, 2017 [53 favorites]
DCCC spends money? OUTSIDERS. DCCC doesn't spend money? SABOTEURS.
It's the very definition of Democrats: damned if you do and damned if you don't.
posted by lydhre at 11:55 AM on June 22, 2017 [53 favorites]
This seems astonishingly unlikely to me. How is it going to be possible for a president with approval ratings so far underwater that they look like a cutaway diagram of the Mariana Trench to transform that into the mass populist support necessary to seize unelected power, during a recession he triggered?
How does a guy who brags about sexual assaults that he has committed, who is held up as a successful business man despite multiple bankruptcies, who a has history of defrauding and ripping off everyone he works with, etc. etc. get elected POTUS? The answers are more clear in retrospect but I was absolutely certain that HRC was our next president.
Nov. 8 taught me not to take anything for granted. I hope you're right and all the facts point to you being correct. I think we're better off assuming that it can and will happen and taking steps to prevent the eventuality than assuming that it's impossible.
I'm never going to underestimate just how bad things can get again.
posted by VTX at 11:57 AM on June 22, 2017 [23 favorites]
How does a guy who brags about sexual assaults that he has committed, who is held up as a successful business man despite multiple bankruptcies, who a has history of defrauding and ripping off everyone he works with, etc. etc. get elected POTUS? The answers are more clear in retrospect but I was absolutely certain that HRC was our next president.
Nov. 8 taught me not to take anything for granted. I hope you're right and all the facts point to you being correct. I think we're better off assuming that it can and will happen and taking steps to prevent the eventuality than assuming that it's impossible.
I'm never going to underestimate just how bad things can get again.
posted by VTX at 11:57 AM on June 22, 2017 [23 favorites]
Including (amazingly??) 'Democrats aren't putting aside political considerations to help repeal and replace Obamacare!'
I've been wondering if the so-called "liberal media" will do its job at informing the American people about how terrible this bill is (for example, if they use the usual NPR formulation of "critics say the bill will raise premiums and deny coverage," it won't be a good sign).
But if the media allows that kind of transparent weak-sauce nonsense to stand unchallenged, we're all in a lot of trouble.
posted by Gelatin at 11:57 AM on June 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
I've been wondering if the so-called "liberal media" will do its job at informing the American people about how terrible this bill is (for example, if they use the usual NPR formulation of "critics say the bill will raise premiums and deny coverage," it won't be a good sign).
But if the media allows that kind of transparent weak-sauce nonsense to stand unchallenged, we're all in a lot of trouble.
posted by Gelatin at 11:57 AM on June 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
NBC/WSJ poll:
A new NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll finds that by a 3-to-1 margin, the American public holds a negative view of the American Health Care Act, 48% to 16%.posted by Chrysostom at 12:03 PM on June 22, 2017 [15 favorites]
Strikingly, even Republican respondents in the poll are lukewarm about the House bill, with only 34% viewing it positively (and 17% viewing it negatively).
Last Thursday, the well-connected political scientist Ian Bremmer tweeted the following: “Heard from Defense Min of a US ally: Mattis & Tillerson said they make relevant policy decisions & ignore Trump because he’s not in charge.”
In other words, national security policy is being set not by the duly-elected president of the United States but by a career army officer and the former CEO of ExxonMobil.
posted by adamvasco at 12:06 PM on June 22, 2017 [59 favorites]
In other words, national security policy is being set not by the duly-elected president of the United States but by a career army officer and the former CEO of ExxonMobil.
posted by adamvasco at 12:06 PM on June 22, 2017 [59 favorites]
My prediction is this passes 50-50 with Pence as tiebreaker. Paul votes No because he likes to play Libertarian Guy, Murkowski gets the other free No because Alaska will be devastated by this. Collins doesn't need the No because she's going to run for Maine governor in 2018.
Other free No might be Heller, given that he's up this year and Nevada is trending blue.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:09 PM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Other free No might be Heller, given that he's up this year and Nevada is trending blue.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:09 PM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
If you're comfortable doing so, sharing personal stories like yours with your elected reps is important and useful. If they're Republicans, you're telling them precisely how the bill will hurt you personally, which makes you an authentic and persuasive caller, and if even they're Democrats, you're giving them ammunition they can use for floor speeches and when talking about the base cruelty of this bill.
If you're inclined to share personal stories, Indivisible is collecting names and stories to use as amendments during the "vote-a-rama" opposition to the bill (if McConnell allows that, which seems pretty unlikely).
posted by gladly at 12:09 PM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
If you're inclined to share personal stories, Indivisible is collecting names and stories to use as amendments during the "vote-a-rama" opposition to the bill (if McConnell allows that, which seems pretty unlikely).
posted by gladly at 12:09 PM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Republicans don't care that it's unpopular because this bill is their life's work, the reason they went into politics in the first place. There will be a monument to it at the Cato Institute one day.
> In other words, national security policy is being set not by the duly-elected president of the United States but by a career army officer and the former CEO of ExxonMobil.
So what you're saying is...things could be worse? *rimshot on drum kit made of skulls*
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:09 PM on June 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
> In other words, national security policy is being set not by the duly-elected president of the United States but by a career army officer and the former CEO of ExxonMobil.
So what you're saying is...things could be worse? *rimshot on drum kit made of skulls*
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:09 PM on June 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
a career army officer
A career Marine Corps officer, in point of fact.
And that's not just picking at details. The two services, while both concerned primarily with land combat, have very different philosophies about virtually everything. As a small but instructive example, I'm an Army Civil Affairs officer. We call ourselves "the Peace Corps with guns", which is insulting to the Peace Corps, but still, we're the ones who are on the ground talking to and helping civilian populations before the fight starts, and we advise commanders on how to deal with civilian populations when the fight is happening. I went to training in 2008, where I was taught by Army Civil Affairs officers and noncommissioned officers who had spent an average of probably a decade doing these missions. They had been taught by Army Civil Affairs officers and NCOs who had spent even longer, and so on and so forth, back to the days when Civil Affairs was Military Government during World War II (in which time my great-granduncle served as a Military Government NCO).
In my class, training right alongside me, seven years after the start of the War in Afghanistan, five years after the start of the War in Iraq, were the first Marine officer and noncommissioned officer to ever go through Civil Affairs training.
posted by Etrigan at 12:15 PM on June 22, 2017 [67 favorites]
A career Marine Corps officer, in point of fact.
And that's not just picking at details. The two services, while both concerned primarily with land combat, have very different philosophies about virtually everything. As a small but instructive example, I'm an Army Civil Affairs officer. We call ourselves "the Peace Corps with guns", which is insulting to the Peace Corps, but still, we're the ones who are on the ground talking to and helping civilian populations before the fight starts, and we advise commanders on how to deal with civilian populations when the fight is happening. I went to training in 2008, where I was taught by Army Civil Affairs officers and noncommissioned officers who had spent an average of probably a decade doing these missions. They had been taught by Army Civil Affairs officers and NCOs who had spent even longer, and so on and so forth, back to the days when Civil Affairs was Military Government during World War II (in which time my great-granduncle served as a Military Government NCO).
In my class, training right alongside me, seven years after the start of the War in Afghanistan, five years after the start of the War in Iraq, were the first Marine officer and noncommissioned officer to ever go through Civil Affairs training.
posted by Etrigan at 12:15 PM on June 22, 2017 [67 favorites]
An ideal presidency is one in which the elected president surrounds himself with experts, delegates general policy decisions to them, takes an interest in and is informed of larger strategic questions or specific controversial issues, and decides which expert is in the right on a specific point, or otherwise asks for compromise between experts. The experts should be somewhat deferential to the president and, in rare cases, should be fired for incompetence in carrying out the president's agenda, but should be willing to speak their mind freely.
What we have is a confused old man watching Fox and agreeing with whoever he last spoke to, up until he agrees with the opposite. There's no chain of command. He might tell two different subordinates with the same vague portfolio to do contradictory things. He has no capacity for understanding any of the questions presented to him. He's never going to fire his people for incompetence; he's more likely to fire them for conducting a competent investigation into him.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:19 PM on June 22, 2017 [40 favorites]
What we have is a confused old man watching Fox and agreeing with whoever he last spoke to, up until he agrees with the opposite. There's no chain of command. He might tell two different subordinates with the same vague portfolio to do contradictory things. He has no capacity for understanding any of the questions presented to him. He's never going to fire his people for incompetence; he's more likely to fire them for conducting a competent investigation into him.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:19 PM on June 22, 2017 [40 favorites]
Slate: White House Warns Reporters Not to Report on Instructions About Not Reporting on Thursday’s Press Conference
ahhhhh yes that's the good stuff right there
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:24 PM on June 22, 2017 [64 favorites]
ahhhhh yes that's the good stuff right there
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:24 PM on June 22, 2017 [64 favorites]
Why don't they just stamp NOT REPORTABLE on Donald's forehead and be done with it
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:24 PM on June 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:24 PM on June 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
A career Marine Corps officer, in point of fact.
And one with a hard-on for war with Iran (the more despots or theocratic autocracies he can team up with, the better!) and little to no moral qualms in letting civilians get caught in the crossfire.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:32 PM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
And one with a hard-on for war with Iran (the more despots or theocratic autocracies he can team up with, the better!) and little to no moral qualms in letting civilians get caught in the crossfire.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:32 PM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
This is a good quick chart from Politico about what's in the bill. This is a good one from the NYT. I wish there were some more graphs that show the reductions, but some good at-a-glance views of what they want to change.
I've looked at both of these and haven't seen anything about the prohibition on lifetime/annual caps. Anybody know whether those are being retained?
posted by joyceanmachine at 12:32 PM on June 22, 2017
I've looked at both of these and haven't seen anything about the prohibition on lifetime/annual caps. Anybody know whether those are being retained?
posted by joyceanmachine at 12:32 PM on June 22, 2017
Motorcyclist detained for driving at protesters on SF street
How fucking devoid of empathy are we going to see people get to before we turn a corner as a species? Because right now I'm pretty sure if there are aliens they're planning to nuke us from orbit as a quarantine measure.
posted by Talez at 12:33 PM on June 22, 2017 [35 favorites]
They had been lying in the street for about 7 minutes when a motorcyclist turned the wrong way on the one-way street and drove toward the protesters, witnesses said.And once again we're losing the fucking plot. One side is seriously opposed to reforms that's going to see millions suffer and thousands die. The other is, what? Opposed to them for the fucking lulz? Just fucking with them out of spite? Seriously want to hurt people who are protesting misery for millions and death sentences for how many thousands?
“He was revving and revving, he was gunning it, aiming at people who were laying down,” said Brieger.
The man was soon surrounded by police and detained, witnesses said. In video footage of the confrontation, officers appear to point weapons at him and order him off his bike.
How fucking devoid of empathy are we going to see people get to before we turn a corner as a species? Because right now I'm pretty sure if there are aliens they're planning to nuke us from orbit as a quarantine measure.
posted by Talez at 12:33 PM on June 22, 2017 [35 favorites]
My spouse is actively setting the stage to pursue a divorce action in a misguided attempt to protect me financially when this thing becomes law. It could be argued that she is terminal except she was given six months to live nearly twenty years ago, so I guess we should call it chronic. But we hit our prescription deductible cap in March-April every year. We hit our out of pocket cap by June-July depending on hospitalizations. Her fear is that if we lose the coverage provided by my employer, we'll be bankrupt and she'll be dead in a hot minute.
The only reason she agreed to marry me was the seeming permanence of Obamacare.
And, yeah, we'll still love each other and do all the things married folk do, but for whatever reason, that fucking piece of paper and legal status is really important to me.
So, fuck these assholes. Even if this miraculously dies on the floor instead of admitting one Senate to a beer party in the Rose Garden, it's been a really rough past few months on the domestic front.
Also, Grassley and Ernst give zero fucks. No matter how many times I tell this story to their staffers. If I didn't have caregiver responsibilities to focus on, I don't know how unhinged I might actually become over this.
posted by Fezboy! at 12:35 PM on June 22, 2017 [146 favorites]
The only reason she agreed to marry me was the seeming permanence of Obamacare.
And, yeah, we'll still love each other and do all the things married folk do, but for whatever reason, that fucking piece of paper and legal status is really important to me.
So, fuck these assholes. Even if this miraculously dies on the floor instead of admitting one Senate to a beer party in the Rose Garden, it's been a really rough past few months on the domestic front.
Also, Grassley and Ernst give zero fucks. No matter how many times I tell this story to their staffers. If I didn't have caregiver responsibilities to focus on, I don't know how unhinged I might actually become over this.
posted by Fezboy! at 12:35 PM on June 22, 2017 [146 favorites]
Due to a one-time windfall early this year, the retroactivity of the repeal of the Net Investment Income Tax would save me a ton in taxes – and I'm still aghast at the bald avarice of the Senate GOP. If that shit becomes law I'm sending a big check to Planned Parenthood.
posted by nicwolff at 12:41 PM on June 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by nicwolff at 12:41 PM on June 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
Wasn't it supposed to be the Democrats threatening traditional marriage?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:42 PM on June 22, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:42 PM on June 22, 2017 [15 favorites]
Other free No might be Heller, given that he's up this year and Nevada is trending blue.
Heller is a dead man walking. Voting no on Fuckyougotminecare will not save him.
posted by Talez at 12:43 PM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Heller is a dead man walking. Voting no on Fuckyougotminecare will not save him.
posted by Talez at 12:43 PM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
So if Heller votes yes, and is run out of office on a rail by Nevada voters in 2018, he gets a cushy think tank or wingnut welfare job? One he presumably doesn't get if he helps block this pile of garbage? Or is he enough of a True Believer to vote for something terrible and harmful because that's what Republicans do?
posted by Gelatin at 12:48 PM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Gelatin at 12:48 PM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
The sad thing is that Obamacare does have issues. I can't completely deny some of the criticisms made against it.
But it is a damn sight better than where we were before it. The facts that those bitching about it are the same who blocked it from being better in the first place, AND want it replaced by the Rich People Get Most Of Your Money And One Of Your Eyes Act of 2017... in the words of Ricardo Montalban, it TASKS me.
posted by delfin at 12:48 PM on June 22, 2017 [16 favorites]
But it is a damn sight better than where we were before it. The facts that those bitching about it are the same who blocked it from being better in the first place, AND want it replaced by the Rich People Get Most Of Your Money And One Of Your Eyes Act of 2017... in the words of Ricardo Montalban, it TASKS me.
posted by delfin at 12:48 PM on June 22, 2017 [16 favorites]
altopower and Fezboy!, I'm so sorry. I've been trying to suss out how worried I should be about my mother's healthcare, and even from this distance, the fear I feel for her weighs on me. I can't begin to imagine how horrible this is for you.
posted by bardophile at 12:52 PM on June 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by bardophile at 12:52 PM on June 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
The sad thing is that Obamacare does have issues. I can't completely deny some of the criticisms made against it.
But it is a damn sight better than where we were before it.
This 100%. Your cancer treatment abruptly stopped? Apparently you hit your million dollar lifetime cap on your insurance. Don't worry, sir, one of our friendly urban watercourse relocation specialists will be along shortly to transfer you to your existent transition plan.
posted by Talez at 12:56 PM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
But it is a damn sight better than where we were before it.
This 100%. Your cancer treatment abruptly stopped? Apparently you hit your million dollar lifetime cap on your insurance. Don't worry, sir, one of our friendly urban watercourse relocation specialists will be along shortly to transfer you to your existent transition plan.
posted by Talez at 12:56 PM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
I don't think it's a coincidence that Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren are the two most popular figureheads of the left wing. They are angry motherfuckers, and I like that they're angry.
On the Senate floor today Warren is filled with righteous fury: “These cuts are blood money. People. Will. Die. Let's be very clear: Senate Republicans are paying for tax cuts for the wealthy with American lives.”
posted by Doktor Zed at 1:02 PM on June 22, 2017 [113 favorites]
On the Senate floor today Warren is filled with righteous fury: “These cuts are blood money. People. Will. Die. Let's be very clear: Senate Republicans are paying for tax cuts for the wealthy with American lives.”
posted by Doktor Zed at 1:02 PM on June 22, 2017 [113 favorites]
The Pizzagate gunman picked up four years in a federal pen today.
That's something. I guess.
posted by Talez at 1:06 PM on June 22, 2017 [30 favorites]
That's something. I guess.
posted by Talez at 1:06 PM on June 22, 2017 [30 favorites]
Let's be very clear: Senate Republicans are paying for tax cuts for the wealthy with American lives.”
Bravo, Senator Professor Warren! This message is exactly the one that needs to be said by every Democrat and decent person who speaks to the media.
Let the Republicans try to deny it.
(And again -- these actions are not those of a party that believes it has a long-term viability as a majority caucus. This outrage of a bill shows that McConnell and crew want to cram their tax cuts thru while they can, before they lose the House and, in 2020, the presidency and senate as well.)
posted by Gelatin at 1:07 PM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
Bravo, Senator Professor Warren! This message is exactly the one that needs to be said by every Democrat and decent person who speaks to the media.
Let the Republicans try to deny it.
(And again -- these actions are not those of a party that believes it has a long-term viability as a majority caucus. This outrage of a bill shows that McConnell and crew want to cram their tax cuts thru while they can, before they lose the House and, in 2020, the presidency and senate as well.)
posted by Gelatin at 1:07 PM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm simultaneously relieved to read Obama's statement, and seething with rage at the two spaces between sentences in his statement. You think you really know somebody, then they go and do a thing like that.
posted by emelenjr at 1:08 PM on June 22, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by emelenjr at 1:08 PM on June 22, 2017 [32 favorites]
You mean the two spaces that I appreciated to better differentiate between a comma and period?
The two spaces that I add after each and every sentence that I type from now until the end of time? There are valid and strong opinions on both sides and this isn't really the place to talk about it.
I still use the oxford comma too. ;)
posted by VTX at 1:16 PM on June 22, 2017 [39 favorites]
The two spaces that I add after each and every sentence that I type from now until the end of time? There are valid and strong opinions on both sides and this isn't really the place to talk about it.
I still use the oxford comma too. ;)
posted by VTX at 1:16 PM on June 22, 2017 [39 favorites]
> On the Senate floor today Warren is filled with righteous fury: “These cuts are blood money. People. Will. Die. Let's be very clear: Senate Republicans are paying for tax cuts for the wealthy with American lives.”Today is her birthday. We should make her a MeFi cake, but what to write on it?
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 1:19 PM on June 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
We should make her a MeFi cake, but what to write on it?
She persisted.
posted by jammer at 1:22 PM on June 22, 2017 [29 favorites]
She persisted.
posted by jammer at 1:22 PM on June 22, 2017 [29 favorites]
Today is her birthday. We should make her a MeFi cake, but what to write on it?
"If the bill passes sotonohito gets to eat this instead."
posted by Talez at 1:24 PM on June 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
"If the bill passes sotonohito gets to eat this instead."
posted by Talez at 1:24 PM on June 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
She's already said she doesn't want to run. Please respect her fucking choices.
posted by Deoridhe at 1:24 PM on June 22, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by Deoridhe at 1:24 PM on June 22, 2017 [20 favorites]
I also hope the Republican plan's opponents will keep mentioning how many of Donald Trump's electoral promises it breaks. ("He said it'd be better. It's much worse.") Trump is notoriously thin-skinned, and it might help to make him lose his temper if the bill is perceived by his constituents as a betrayal.
posted by Gelatin at 1:25 PM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Gelatin at 1:25 PM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
She's already said she doesn't want to run.
She's approximately 175th in line. If Trump starts spilling to try to save his own ass, she might not have to run.
posted by Etrigan at 1:29 PM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
She's approximately 175th in line. If Trump starts spilling to try to save his own ass, she might not have to run.
posted by Etrigan at 1:29 PM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
She's already said she doesn't want to run.
We were discussing new faces in the Democratic leadership earlier. Warren does an amazing job of communicating kitchen-table issues and how the Republican agenda works against Americans who aren't rich. I wonder if she would consider a leadership position, with its increased visibility?
posted by Gelatin at 1:29 PM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
We were discussing new faces in the Democratic leadership earlier. Warren does an amazing job of communicating kitchen-table issues and how the Republican agenda works against Americans who aren't rich. I wonder if she would consider a leadership position, with its increased visibility?
posted by Gelatin at 1:29 PM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
I've looked at both of these and haven't seen anything about the prohibition on lifetime/annual caps. Anybody know whether those are being retained?
As I understand it, there's nothing inherent in the bill that says the lifetime caps have to come back, but the bill allows states to waive the essential health benefits that define what "an insurance plan" actually means. There's some dispute as to whether that would impact lifetime limits for employer plans, but that's also the kind of thing Tom Price would be in charge of figuring out, so going with the interpretation that denies as much health care as possible seems safe.
Meanwhile, the House is having a crackdown on sleeveless dresses, which pretty much tells you where we are as a country right now.
Bonus video from Sports Illustrated: President Trump driving his golf cart all over the green is the most Trump thing ever (via MikeNFrank/Twitter). I like how he claims he was claims he was playing "good until this hole," which is uncharacteristically honest of him; I would have expected him to lie about the bad performance his fans just watched too.
posted by zachlipton at 1:31 PM on June 22, 2017 [21 favorites]
As I understand it, there's nothing inherent in the bill that says the lifetime caps have to come back, but the bill allows states to waive the essential health benefits that define what "an insurance plan" actually means. There's some dispute as to whether that would impact lifetime limits for employer plans, but that's also the kind of thing Tom Price would be in charge of figuring out, so going with the interpretation that denies as much health care as possible seems safe.
Meanwhile, the House is having a crackdown on sleeveless dresses, which pretty much tells you where we are as a country right now.
Bonus video from Sports Illustrated: President Trump driving his golf cart all over the green is the most Trump thing ever (via MikeNFrank/Twitter). I like how he claims he was claims he was playing "good until this hole," which is uncharacteristically honest of him; I would have expected him to lie about the bad performance his fans just watched too.
posted by zachlipton at 1:31 PM on June 22, 2017 [21 favorites]
She's already said she doesn't want to run.
Where can I read about that? I can only find right-wing misinterpretations of her asserting that she intends to run for the Senate in 2018.
posted by Coventry at 1:32 PM on June 22, 2017
Where can I read about that? I can only find right-wing misinterpretations of her asserting that she intends to run for the Senate in 2018.
posted by Coventry at 1:32 PM on June 22, 2017
Like fezboys wife, I have already looked at and planned how to leave my 20+ year marriage if insurance stops covering pre existing conditions. I won't bankrupt my family, or destroy my kid's chance to go to college because the pharmaceutical companies need to pay bonuses to three initial executives, and billionaires need tax cuts for their jets and tennis courts.
I know my husband would sacrifice everything for me, and I cannot allow that to happen.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 1:33 PM on June 22, 2017 [41 favorites]
I know my husband would sacrifice everything for me, and I cannot allow that to happen.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 1:33 PM on June 22, 2017 [41 favorites]
If Trump supporters don't care about the health, wellbeing or financial solvency of their fellow Americans, maybe they will care about adorable bears?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:34 PM on June 22, 2017
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:34 PM on June 22, 2017
Meanwhile, the House is having a crackdown on sleeveless dresses, which pretty much tells you where we are as a country right now.
christian taliban?
posted by entropicamericana at 1:35 PM on June 22, 2017 [16 favorites]
christian taliban?
posted by entropicamericana at 1:35 PM on June 22, 2017 [16 favorites]
a daydream of Nancy Pelosi ripping off both her sleeves and slowly rotating to flip the double bird at the entire house
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:37 PM on June 22, 2017 [73 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:37 PM on June 22, 2017 [73 favorites]
They'd vote for Elizabeth Warren in a heartbeat, they can't possibly be sexist!
Until she actually ran. Theoretical women are cool.
But if I’m honest, what would excite me more is having a real grassroots political movement come into form that is not fueled by big outside money.
Dude, everyone wants a pony.
Because right now I'm pretty sure if there are aliens they're planning to nuke us from orbit as a quarantine measure.
I for one...
posted by bongo_x at 1:39 PM on June 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
Until she actually ran. Theoretical women are cool.
But if I’m honest, what would excite me more is having a real grassroots political movement come into form that is not fueled by big outside money.
Dude, everyone wants a pony.
Because right now I'm pretty sure if there are aliens they're planning to nuke us from orbit as a quarantine measure.
I for one...
posted by bongo_x at 1:39 PM on June 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
zachlipton: Meanwhile, the House is having a crackdown on sleeveless dresses
And here I was thinking that you folks had the right to bare arms.
posted by Too-Ticky at 1:40 PM on June 22, 2017 [94 favorites]
And here I was thinking that you folks had the right to bare arms.
posted by Too-Ticky at 1:40 PM on June 22, 2017 [94 favorites]
Where can I read about that? I can only find right-wing misinterpretations of her asserting that she intends to run for the Senate in 2018.
The usual cite is from a May 2017 Bloomberg interview, transcribed here.
The usual cite is from a May 2017 Bloomberg interview, transcribed here.
Kevin Cirilli: What do you actually put into that decision? The biggest decision you can make…posted by mykescipark at 1:40 PM on June 22, 2017
Warren: It’s a very thoughtful question but I actually have to put this in a temporal place. I’m not running for President, I’m running for my re-election for Senate in 2018 and I announced very early because I want people to know that I am all-in.
And here I was thinking that you folks had the right to bare arms.
(from the Robin Williams quote deep in my DNA) and the right to arm bears.
posted by Melismata at 1:41 PM on June 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
(from the Robin Williams quote deep in my DNA) and the right to arm bears.
posted by Melismata at 1:41 PM on June 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
Apparently men have to wear suit and tie, but I suspect that isn't enforced so much...
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:41 PM on June 22, 2017
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:41 PM on June 22, 2017
Being pro both global warming AND heavier dress codes seems cruel.
posted by Artw at 1:42 PM on June 22, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by Artw at 1:42 PM on June 22, 2017 [16 favorites]
New House Rule: Members of the minority party shall attend the House floor concealed beneath not less than two duck-down comforters
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:44 PM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:44 PM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
There is a long, long, long American tradition of asking, begging, and cajoling politicians who say they don't want to run, to please, please run. It is disrespecting Warren more to say that she, of all of those who have been reluctantly called, should not be asked. We make no demands, but it is wrong to demand that we not repeatedly ask.
Also, many of her demurrals, like the one cited above, are not that she has no desire to run or no intention of running, and they are certainly not requests that we stop asking. They are mainly just standard political statements that the politician is not currently running, or actively considering it, at this time.
posted by chortly at 1:44 PM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Also, many of her demurrals, like the one cited above, are not that she has no desire to run or no intention of running, and they are certainly not requests that we stop asking. They are mainly just standard political statements that the politician is not currently running, or actively considering it, at this time.
posted by chortly at 1:44 PM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
There is a right to bare arms, but they shall not be en-fringed.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:45 PM on June 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:45 PM on June 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
If Trump supporters don't care about the health, wellbeing or financial solvency of their fellow Americans, maybe they will care about adorable bears?
Delisting the Yellowstone grizzly will allow trophy hunting which is very on-brand for the Trumps.
posted by peeedro at 1:45 PM on June 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
Delisting the Yellowstone grizzly will allow trophy hunting which is very on-brand for the Trumps.
posted by peeedro at 1:45 PM on June 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
I guess we are a decade or so too early for President Harris?
posted by Artw at 1:46 PM on June 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 1:46 PM on June 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
The usual cite is from a May 2017 Bloomberg interview, transcribed here.
Which says right at the top "She is definitely not ruling out a run but focusing on the here and now. Smart."
posted by Coventry at 1:47 PM on June 22, 2017
Which says right at the top "She is definitely not ruling out a run but focusing on the here and now. Smart."
posted by Coventry at 1:47 PM on June 22, 2017
I guess we are a decade or so too early for President Harris?
obama was elected to the senate in 2004. just sayin'
posted by entropicamericana at 1:50 PM on June 22, 2017 [23 favorites]
obama was elected to the senate in 2004. just sayin'
posted by entropicamericana at 1:50 PM on June 22, 2017 [23 favorites]
Joe Biden is 74 years old. After one term he will be 81. After two terms he will be 85. I don't think that's an ideal candidate.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:57 PM on June 22, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:57 PM on June 22, 2017 [15 favorites]
Framing:
THIS PHOTO IS ALL ANYBODY RUNNING AGAINST REPUBLICANS NEED for any election in this country... forever [SLTwitter; image of a woman in a wheelchair, handcuffed]
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 1:57 PM on June 22, 2017 [29 favorites]
THIS PHOTO IS ALL ANYBODY RUNNING AGAINST REPUBLICANS NEED for any election in this country... forever [SLTwitter; image of a woman in a wheelchair, handcuffed]
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 1:57 PM on June 22, 2017 [29 favorites]
Al Franken is slightly more viable at 66.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:58 PM on June 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:58 PM on June 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
Joe Biden is 74 years old. After one term he will be 81. After two terms he will be 85. I don't think that's an ideal candidate.
but think of the memes bruh
posted by entropicamericana at 1:58 PM on June 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
but think of the memes bruh
posted by entropicamericana at 1:58 PM on June 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
They're not so stupid as to let Obamacare stay in place indefinitely as-is out of purism,
I can't speak for the others, but when we as NeverTrump were trying to upend the rules of the GOP convention in order to unbind the delegates and reject Trump, it was only Senator Mike Lee who was willing to break the line and push past bodyguards to deliver the delegate petitions where they needed to go - and who joined us in walking off the floor when they broke the rules. When speaking with him at that time, I got the sense of an extremely honorable man - one I may often disagree with, but who does not engage in posturing. If he's saying he's considering voting no, I believe he means it. I think it's worth finding out what his objections are, and calling his office and pushing down hard on them.
posted by corb at 2:01 PM on June 22, 2017 [18 favorites]
I can't speak for the others, but when we as NeverTrump were trying to upend the rules of the GOP convention in order to unbind the delegates and reject Trump, it was only Senator Mike Lee who was willing to break the line and push past bodyguards to deliver the delegate petitions where they needed to go - and who joined us in walking off the floor when they broke the rules. When speaking with him at that time, I got the sense of an extremely honorable man - one I may often disagree with, but who does not engage in posturing. If he's saying he's considering voting no, I believe he means it. I think it's worth finding out what his objections are, and calling his office and pushing down hard on them.
posted by corb at 2:01 PM on June 22, 2017 [18 favorites]
spitbull: He is running. I'll put money on it.
Your money's no good here. You need to bake a cake.
posted by Too-Ticky at 2:02 PM on June 22, 2017 [20 favorites]
Your money's no good here. You need to bake a cake.
posted by Too-Ticky at 2:02 PM on June 22, 2017 [20 favorites]
While obviously superior to the current cretin, Joe fucking Biden should not run for nor be elected president.
posted by aspersioncast at 2:05 PM on June 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by aspersioncast at 2:05 PM on June 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
We're all agreed that The Zuck can go take a fuck, right?
posted by Artw at 2:06 PM on June 22, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by Artw at 2:06 PM on June 22, 2017 [20 favorites]
You guys I am too flattened by pics of people in wheelchairs being zip-tied and put in police vans to give a shit about what Biden does right now.
posted by emjaybee at 2:07 PM on June 22, 2017 [43 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 2:07 PM on June 22, 2017 [43 favorites]
Being president ages people. Look at the before-and-afters of Obama and Bush, and they were younger, physically active people. I thought both Clinton and Trump were a bit too old to be president, him more so because of his unhealthy lifestyle. Trump was the oldest person to become president, at 70 years, 220 days. The second-oldest, Reagan, developed Alzheimer's in office. It's too tasking for septuagenarians.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:07 PM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 2:07 PM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
I didn't [+] your post SecretAgentSockpuppet. Not because I don't identify or know the depth of the struggle that precipitates that decision or what that decision represents, because I do. It's just patently absurd that we find ourselves in this position.
I'm just afraid a [+] could be construed as support for that plan. I've warned the Lady Fez I will bankrupt myself anyway by hiring my own attorney to fight her even though this is a No Fault state. It's the only gesture I can think of that strikes the right level of absurdity.
If we're going down, I want to at least marvel in the spectacle.
posted by Fezboy! at 2:12 PM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm just afraid a [+] could be construed as support for that plan. I've warned the Lady Fez I will bankrupt myself anyway by hiring my own attorney to fight her even though this is a No Fault state. It's the only gesture I can think of that strikes the right level of absurdity.
If we're going down, I want to at least marvel in the spectacle.
posted by Fezboy! at 2:12 PM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
Bonus video from Sports Illustrated: President Trump driving his golf cart all over the green is the most Trump thing ever (via MikeNFrank/Twitter).
Faux Pas Americana!
posted by srboisvert at 2:12 PM on June 22, 2017
Faux Pas Americana!
posted by srboisvert at 2:12 PM on June 22, 2017
But my case is that age is just a number.
Unfortunately, it is a number that measures how many years old you are.
posted by thelonius at 2:12 PM on June 22, 2017 [33 favorites]
Unfortunately, it is a number that measures how many years old you are.
posted by thelonius at 2:12 PM on June 22, 2017 [33 favorites]
There is a right to bare arms, but they shall not be en-fringed.
No. It's a right to bear arms. That's why Trump is delisting the Yellowstone Grizzly. It's positively unconstitutional.
posted by Talez at 2:12 PM on June 22, 2017
No. It's a right to bear arms. That's why Trump is delisting the Yellowstone Grizzly. It's positively unconstitutional.
posted by Talez at 2:12 PM on June 22, 2017
Well we don't have to pre-litigate the next primaries.
Indeed we really really don't. Everybody, there's a bunch of other threads on the site y'all can go check out if you're just kinda killing time in here. There's a great big MetaFilter out there.
posted by cortex at 2:15 PM on June 22, 2017 [20 favorites]
Indeed we really really don't. Everybody, there's a bunch of other threads on the site y'all can go check out if you're just kinda killing time in here. There's a great big MetaFilter out there.
posted by cortex at 2:15 PM on June 22, 2017 [20 favorites]
> Well we don't have to pre-litigate the next primaries.
Don't mitigate, pre-litigate!
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:20 PM on June 22, 2017
Don't mitigate, pre-litigate!
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:20 PM on June 22, 2017
George W. Bush, Donald Trump, and both Clintons were all born in 1946. Romney, Kerry, and Gore were also born in the 1940s. Aside from Obama, every major party presidential nominee this millennium was alive in the ’40s. It’ll be impressive it that continues all the to 2020.
posted by mbrubeck at 2:22 PM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by mbrubeck at 2:22 PM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
And the names most people come up with are pretty young (politically).
Barack Obama was pretty young politically, still in his first term as a Senator, in 2008. I think it worked in his favor in that there were fewer controversial votes for opponents to point to.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 2:23 PM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Barack Obama was pretty young politically, still in his first term as a Senator, in 2008. I think it worked in his favor in that there were fewer controversial votes for opponents to point to.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 2:23 PM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Back to the healthcare bill, Murkowski posted on Facebook that she'll be "working closely with the state over the next several days to analyze the text and crunch the numbers." Perhaps relatedly, Alaska's Governor Walker was recently in the news expressing his concerns about the bill. (He's a former Republican turned Independent who won the governorship after joining forces with the then-Democratic candidate (now Lt Gov) in 2014.) Also of possible interest - Alaska's currently on the brink of a July 1 government shutdown as the newly-Democrat-coalition-led house and Republican-controlled senate try to hash out a budget while disagreeing on a long term fiscal plan, so the state's probably pretty aware of potentially devastating fiscal impacts right now. (Supposedly they're getting close on the operating budget.) Will any of this context matter? Who knows.
(Bonus Murkowski trivia: She beat her former tea party challenger from 2010 again in 2016 when he took over the Libertarian spot after the Libertarian candidate was sexually harassed and sabotaged by her campaign manager.)
posted by cdefgfeadgagfe at 2:24 PM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
(Bonus Murkowski trivia: She beat her former tea party challenger from 2010 again in 2016 when he took over the Libertarian spot after the Libertarian candidate was sexually harassed and sabotaged by her campaign manager.)
posted by cdefgfeadgagfe at 2:24 PM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
Barack Obama was pretty young politically, still in his first term as a Senator, in 2008. I think it worked in his favor in that there were fewer controversial votes for opponents to point to.
Not being tainted by Iraq was a big deal. Still should be.
posted by Artw at 2:29 PM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Not being tainted by Iraq was a big deal. Still should be.
posted by Artw at 2:29 PM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Hi. It's still 2017. Can we please concentrate on now and 2018 before we start hashing out details for 2020 presidential shit? IDGAF that Trump has started campaigning. It's a sideshow.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 2:34 PM on June 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 2:34 PM on June 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
Guy Molyneux, The American Prospect: A Tale Of Two Populisms
The article goes into detail about distrust of government, especially among the white working class (I know, I know...), and digs deeper into this concept.
A quote: This anti-government sentiment is mainly driven by antipathy toward political leaders, rather than governmental agencies and departments.
And the money quote for me: Political distrust has developed over decades, and has many causes. But let us give the devil his due, and acknowledge that Senator Mitch McConnell, more than any other single person, is the father of Trumpism. By grinding Washington to a virtual halt for years, his blanket opposition to Obama helped ratchet up public disgust with the federal government to previously unseen heights. Even while the economy was recovering, confidence in Washington fell steadily, an impressive if perverse feat.
It occurs to me that the witches and magic workers who are doing Trump binding spells, ought to do McConnell binding spells as well. Trump is obviously, stupidly bad, but McConnell has done so much damage over so much time that this worries me almost as much as Trump (I say almost because McConnell does not have his finger on the Big Red Button). Gridlocking Congress destroys trust in government, and it makes many people want an "imperial Presidency." I remember when Democrats and liberals were saying, why doesn't Obama do more, why doesn't he get tough, something something Roosevelt and Johnson precedent blah blah. And I know the origins of the current executive branch powers go back to Bush II. But it's something to think about: gridlocking and obstructing Congress so it can't do much puts the onus on the President to get stuff done, and inevitably someone like Trump gets into power, the shoe is on the other foot and it's pinching...
It really, really is going to be a marathon to try to get things working again, I think.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 2:39 PM on June 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
The article goes into detail about distrust of government, especially among the white working class (I know, I know...), and digs deeper into this concept.
A quote: This anti-government sentiment is mainly driven by antipathy toward political leaders, rather than governmental agencies and departments.
And the money quote for me: Political distrust has developed over decades, and has many causes. But let us give the devil his due, and acknowledge that Senator Mitch McConnell, more than any other single person, is the father of Trumpism. By grinding Washington to a virtual halt for years, his blanket opposition to Obama helped ratchet up public disgust with the federal government to previously unseen heights. Even while the economy was recovering, confidence in Washington fell steadily, an impressive if perverse feat.
It occurs to me that the witches and magic workers who are doing Trump binding spells, ought to do McConnell binding spells as well. Trump is obviously, stupidly bad, but McConnell has done so much damage over so much time that this worries me almost as much as Trump (I say almost because McConnell does not have his finger on the Big Red Button). Gridlocking Congress destroys trust in government, and it makes many people want an "imperial Presidency." I remember when Democrats and liberals were saying, why doesn't Obama do more, why doesn't he get tough, something something Roosevelt and Johnson precedent blah blah. And I know the origins of the current executive branch powers go back to Bush II. But it's something to think about: gridlocking and obstructing Congress so it can't do much puts the onus on the President to get stuff done, and inevitably someone like Trump gets into power, the shoe is on the other foot and it's pinching...
It really, really is going to be a marathon to try to get things working again, I think.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 2:39 PM on June 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
The sad thing is that Obamacare does have issues. I can't completely deny some of the criticisms made against it.
Many of those issues - states opting out of Medicaid expansion, elimination of risk corridors - were caused by Republicans sabotaging the law. They don't get credit for criticizing problems they created.
posted by chris24 at 2:39 PM on June 22, 2017 [41 favorites]
Many of those issues - states opting out of Medicaid expansion, elimination of risk corridors - were caused by Republicans sabotaging the law. They don't get credit for criticizing problems they created.
posted by chris24 at 2:39 PM on June 22, 2017 [41 favorites]
Meanwhile, in a state known for it's importance in Presidential elections...
Ryan J. Foley, AP - Trump’s putdown of wind energy whips up a backlash in Iowa
posted by CyberSlug Labs at 2:40 PM on June 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
Ryan J. Foley, AP - Trump’s putdown of wind energy whips up a backlash in Iowa
posted by CyberSlug Labs at 2:40 PM on June 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
... it's because Republicans have refused to consider any improvements or even routine fixes to the ACA
Well, you're getting closer. It's actually that they've acted to make it worse by disabling the funding that made it work, removing or limiting subsidies to insurers tasked with covering the individual market. And now they're working to make it even worse by contracting Medicaid and weakening consumer protections. Their one and only goal is to get rid of the tax increases by removing funding for poor people.
posted by Mental Wimp at 2:40 PM on June 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
Well, you're getting closer. It's actually that they've acted to make it worse by disabling the funding that made it work, removing or limiting subsidies to insurers tasked with covering the individual market. And now they're working to make it even worse by contracting Medicaid and weakening consumer protections. Their one and only goal is to get rid of the tax increases by removing funding for poor people.
posted by Mental Wimp at 2:40 PM on June 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
Meanwhile, the House is having a crackdown on sleeveless dresses, which pretty much tells you where we are as a country right now.
Sleeveless dresses stopped being shocking in the 1920s, and again in the 1960s, but as with all forms of social control of women, gains are never permanent.
posted by Hypatia at 2:43 PM on June 22, 2017 [39 favorites]
Sleeveless dresses stopped being shocking in the 1920s, and again in the 1960s, but as with all forms of social control of women, gains are never permanent.
posted by Hypatia at 2:43 PM on June 22, 2017 [39 favorites]
If you want to take the optimist position, here's the NYT Congressional Memo: McConnell’s Calculation May Be That He Still Wins by Losing
... it is possible that Mr. McConnell views the potential failure of a hastily written health care bill as an eventual boon ... so that they can move on to their real heart's desire, cutting taxes for rich people.
On the other hand - cutting taxes for the rich, denying healthcare to kids and the disabled - why not both?
It seems more likely to me that the bill in its current form is taking the temperature of the caucus, McConnell is figuring out exactly what "incentives" are needed (the Cornhusker Kickback, or the Beehive State Bribe that tonycpsu suggested way above), and they end up passing it in a sudden late night roll call vote and ram it through the House as well.
And then ... does it have "heart", or might it get vetoed?
Ha ha, of course Trump signs it. Fuck you, that's why.
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:44 PM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
... it is possible that Mr. McConnell views the potential failure of a hastily written health care bill as an eventual boon ... so that they can move on to their real heart's desire, cutting taxes for rich people.
On the other hand - cutting taxes for the rich, denying healthcare to kids and the disabled - why not both?
It seems more likely to me that the bill in its current form is taking the temperature of the caucus, McConnell is figuring out exactly what "incentives" are needed (the Cornhusker Kickback, or the Beehive State Bribe that tonycpsu suggested way above), and they end up passing it in a sudden late night roll call vote and ram it through the House as well.
And then ... does it have "heart", or might it get vetoed?
Ha ha, of course Trump signs it. Fuck you, that's why.
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:44 PM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
Hey guys I'm about $1k away from hitting my max out-of-pocket for this year's healthcare expenditures. I hit my $2600 deductible back in April.
There's no way I'm happy about this "high risk pools" nonsense at the state level. The last policy I purchased for myself individually was hell to obtain, required a ridiculous amount of tests and stipulated that "no asthma medication shall be covered for the first seven years of continuous coverage under this policy; any medications prescribed for treating pre-existing conditions shall not be covered for a similar period of time should $NAME experience any lapses in continuous coverage under this plan."
I mean, sure, right now I can afford to pay $70 per rescue inhaler. How much will it cost me next year? Or the year after that?
I'm with everyone above who says they're scared to death of this ACHA bill passing. My prescriptions already cost more than $1k/month before I meet my deductible.
Surely I'm not the only Mefite that's gotten one of those a-hole insurance policy termination letters that reads something like:
That's it, cake and ice cream for dinner. Why work out and eat healthy if the government's hell-bent on killing me so everyone on Capitol Hill can have one extra dollar?
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 2:54 PM on June 22, 2017 [50 favorites]
There's no way I'm happy about this "high risk pools" nonsense at the state level. The last policy I purchased for myself individually was hell to obtain, required a ridiculous amount of tests and stipulated that "no asthma medication shall be covered for the first seven years of continuous coverage under this policy; any medications prescribed for treating pre-existing conditions shall not be covered for a similar period of time should $NAME experience any lapses in continuous coverage under this plan."
I mean, sure, right now I can afford to pay $70 per rescue inhaler. How much will it cost me next year? Or the year after that?
I'm with everyone above who says they're scared to death of this ACHA bill passing. My prescriptions already cost more than $1k/month before I meet my deductible.
Surely I'm not the only Mefite that's gotten one of those a-hole insurance policy termination letters that reads something like:
"we regret to inform you that your healthcare plan reached the maximum lifetime coverage amount on DAY/MONTH/YEAR. It is your responsibility to procure alternate coverage with a different provider no later than 30 days after receipt of this letter. It's been a privilege to serve your healthcare needs."I'm just so, so stupid for thinking chronically ill people might get the chance to live a little bit longer just because Obama told insurance companies they can't reject us or terminate our coverage after we hit that lifetime maximum. Even worse, I'm getting old now and my premiums should be downright astronomical if this shit show actually gets through.
That's it, cake and ice cream for dinner. Why work out and eat healthy if the government's hell-bent on killing me so everyone on Capitol Hill can have one extra dollar?
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 2:54 PM on June 22, 2017 [50 favorites]
Wow, this is quite startling. @maggieNYT Audio is now permissible from today's briefing, per pool
Classic 'door in the face' technique.
posted by srboisvert at 2:55 PM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Classic 'door in the face' technique.
posted by srboisvert at 2:55 PM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Assuming Josh Marshall's Iron Law of Republican Politics (that the ‘GOP moderates’ will always cave) holds true, the best outcome here is that the conservative senators are unwilling to vote for anything that could pass under reconciliation, because such a bill doesn't go far enough in repealing ACA and replacing it by a lone tumbleweed rolling across the Senate floor, and so they're unable to get 51 votes for that reason.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:57 PM on June 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:57 PM on June 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
Of course, if the 'GOP moderates' believe the bill is a lost cause, it's a lot easier for them to vote against it.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:59 PM on June 22, 2017
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:59 PM on June 22, 2017
it's a lot easier for them to vote against it.
Ahahah... them tax cuts, tho.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 3:06 PM on June 22, 2017
Ahahah... them tax cuts, tho.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 3:06 PM on June 22, 2017
Wrote my senators then called their offices. I am sick today, so all I had to say was:
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 3:11 PM on June 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
I'm completely opposed to Murderous Mitch's travesty of a healthcare bill. The ACA saved my life.I may have also added to the tail end of one of the calls that "Congressional Republicans are an infected pustule on the ass of America." Ya, I'm real pissed. Again. Or still. Whatever. I'm taking a nap.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 3:11 PM on June 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
BuzzFeed: Trump Told Democrats He Wants To Do Something About Deported Veterans. His Staff Was Less Open.
posted by zachlipton at 3:36 PM on June 22, 2017 [16 favorites]
At a private dinner with centrist Democrats last week, Donald Trump indicated he was sympathetic to the plight of military veterans who have been deported, before his staff quickly assured him that the issue is a complicated one.Some nice FOIA work from BuzzFeed: Memo Shows Preet Bharara Was Concerned After Phone Call From White House. A bunch is redacted, but they've got the emails Bharara sent after Trump's secretary called to memorialize his actions and his decision not to speak to the President.
"We should do something about this," Trump said, according to sources familiar with the meeting attended by Democratic Reps. Vicente Gonzalez, Stephanie Murphy and Kyrsten Sinema. A staffer quickly told the president the issue is that the men subsequently committed crimes, which eventually led to their deportation.
Sources familiar with the dinner said Trump told Gonzalez that he should detail the issue to him in writing, to which Gonzalez responded that he had already sent the president two letters.
posted by zachlipton at 3:36 PM on June 22, 2017 [16 favorites]
OMG are these senators at all serious about what they're doing here? At all?
Washington Post live updates: How to stop people from buying coverage only when they’re sick? “That kind of gaming of the system is a problem,” Sen. Patrick J. Toomey (R-Pa.) said Thursday afternoon on a call with reporters. “There’s still discussion about how to discourage that sort of thing.” ... Toomey also said he’s “likely” to vote for the legislation.
You clowns, you buffoons, the entire point of the ACA individual mandate was to reduce the likelihood of insurance market death spirals that you've been gleefully cackling about. Even the House bill nodded to that requirement - poorly, but at least they had a mechanism (surcharges for lack of continuous coverage).
And for your replacement - you just haven't thought about it? Words fail me.
posted by RedOrGreen at 3:38 PM on June 22, 2017 [42 favorites]
Washington Post live updates: How to stop people from buying coverage only when they’re sick? “That kind of gaming of the system is a problem,” Sen. Patrick J. Toomey (R-Pa.) said Thursday afternoon on a call with reporters. “There’s still discussion about how to discourage that sort of thing.” ... Toomey also said he’s “likely” to vote for the legislation.
You clowns, you buffoons, the entire point of the ACA individual mandate was to reduce the likelihood of insurance market death spirals that you've been gleefully cackling about. Even the House bill nodded to that requirement - poorly, but at least they had a mechanism (surcharges for lack of continuous coverage).
And for your replacement - you just haven't thought about it? Words fail me.
posted by RedOrGreen at 3:38 PM on June 22, 2017 [42 favorites]
OMG are these senators at all serious about what they're doing here? At all?
Yes. But what they're doing here is finding money to turn into permanent tax cuts for the rich.
It's not health care policy, at all.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:40 PM on June 22, 2017 [15 favorites]
Yes. But what they're doing here is finding money to turn into permanent tax cuts for the rich.
It's not health care policy, at all.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:40 PM on June 22, 2017 [15 favorites]
NBC News Advisers Don’t Want Trump Talking About Russia. But He Is
I'm not much of a one for nicknames but I've started calling Mitch McConnell Senator McDeath. His smiles gives me the shivers especially since I know he is gleeful about the prospect of taking healthcare away from pregnant women, newborns, children, disabled, and the elderly.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:57 PM on June 22, 2017 [20 favorites]
n Iowa, where Trump addressed supporters at a campaign-style rally for well over an hour, he repeatedly deviated from the Teleprompter. At one point, he tried to explain to the crowd why he had multi-millionaires, including Gary Cohn, former of Goldman Sachs, serving in his administration. In short, Trump said it was because he didn't want a "poor person" in charge of the nation's economy.Oh that's rich. The Republicans have no plan beyond cut taxes for the wealthiest. I would say our foremost plan is to dump Trump because it is vital for the well being of our country and its citizens. And because-- I say this with utmost sincerity-- he is a fucking crook.
The adviser said aides found some parts of the president's speech "cringe worthy."
The senior White House official, who agreed to speak anonymously in order to discuss internal White House thinking, said the administration believes they if can succeed in their agenda, Republicans will be able to string together election victories because Democrats have no plan beyond “dump Trump.”
I'm not much of a one for nicknames but I've started calling Mitch McConnell Senator McDeath. His smiles gives me the shivers especially since I know he is gleeful about the prospect of taking healthcare away from pregnant women, newborns, children, disabled, and the elderly.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:57 PM on June 22, 2017 [20 favorites]
CBS Investigators probe whether Trump associates got info from hacked voter databases
CBS News has confirmed that congressional investigators are interested in whether Trump campaign associates obtained information from hacked voter databases.posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:10 PM on June 22, 2017 [32 favorites]
A source indicated it is still early on in the process of scrutinizing the issue, but the House Intelligence Committee is said to be scrutinizing relevant documents to see if there is a connection. TIME was the first to report the development, attributing it to two sources familiar with the investigations. CBS News has learned that so far there is no evidence that information taken from voter databases was used by Trump officials. Still, it is a sign that the congressional investigation is expanding
That seems pretty easy to turn into "We need to dump Trump to get him and the rest of the GOP out of the way so that we can do X, Y, and Z."
posted by VTX at 4:20 PM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by VTX at 4:20 PM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
VOX Lobbyists are so disgusted with the Senate health care bill, they compared it to leeching
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:27 PM on June 22, 2017 [33 favorites]
Bruce Siegel, president and CEO of America’s Essential Hospitals, which represents 300 health service providers, released a statement saying the proposed bill “will make our nation sicker, less productive, and less secure.”Well I'm glad to see some reporting on the job-killing aspect of this bill. Up to now most of the discussion has been on the patients who will lose coverage and possibly their lives. But I believe there are also wider implications in this bill's effects on the economy. Senator Richard Burr released a statement this morning that made me see red. He had the gall to say that cutting taxes on medical devises would create jobs. What a lot of bull. For one thing he fails to see that cutting the number of patients with access to these medical devises will mean fewer sales in America. Oh well. Maybe they can sell them abroad where people still have universal coverage.
Siegel expressed concern that “[f]or the hospitals that protect millions of Americans and their communities — our essential hospitals — this bill might even accelerate decisions by some to reduce services or close their doors.”
That would cost jobs — and it could cost lives, he writes:
It would kill jobs—more than 1.5 million nationally by some estimates, including tens of thousands in states as diverse as Maine, West Virginia, Arizona, and Alaska. It would undermine progress toward defeating national health threats, such as the opioid epidemic and others.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:27 PM on June 22, 2017 [33 favorites]
Hey guys I'm about $1k away from hitting my max out-of-pocket for this year's healthcare expenditures. I hit my $2600 deductible back in April.
There's no way I'm happy about this "high risk pools" nonsense at the state level. The last policy I purchased for myself individually was hell to obtain, required a ridiculous amount of tests and stipulated that "no asthma medication shall be covered for the first seven years of continuous coverage under this policy; any medications prescribed for treating pre-existing conditions shall not be covered for a similar period of time should $NAME experience any lapses in continuous coverage under this plan."
I mean, sure, right now I can afford to pay $70 per rescue inhaler. How much will it cost me next year? Or the year after that?
I bought a new one for $3.37 a few days ago, the HFC aerosol-powered kind. Well, not one, a bunch, 'cause different bags/pockets/rooms. Bulk buy. You don't buy one package of tissue for the living room, bathroom, kitchen, and backpack, y'know?
No insurance, no prescription, no ID. I walk up and buy it and they don't know who I am and don't ask questions. If I want ridiculously awesome global health insurance that covers all of the world but the US, it's about $5000 a year.
I live in a city of 20 million with an average life expectancy of 81.95. I can order my inhaler on an app on my phone for $4.50 and have it delivered within 2 hours.
Pitchforks up.
posted by saysthis at 4:36 PM on June 22, 2017 [27 favorites]
There's no way I'm happy about this "high risk pools" nonsense at the state level. The last policy I purchased for myself individually was hell to obtain, required a ridiculous amount of tests and stipulated that "no asthma medication shall be covered for the first seven years of continuous coverage under this policy; any medications prescribed for treating pre-existing conditions shall not be covered for a similar period of time should $NAME experience any lapses in continuous coverage under this plan."
I mean, sure, right now I can afford to pay $70 per rescue inhaler. How much will it cost me next year? Or the year after that?
I bought a new one for $3.37 a few days ago, the HFC aerosol-powered kind. Well, not one, a bunch, 'cause different bags/pockets/rooms. Bulk buy. You don't buy one package of tissue for the living room, bathroom, kitchen, and backpack, y'know?
No insurance, no prescription, no ID. I walk up and buy it and they don't know who I am and don't ask questions. If I want ridiculously awesome global health insurance that covers all of the world but the US, it's about $5000 a year.
I live in a city of 20 million with an average life expectancy of 81.95. I can order my inhaler on an app on my phone for $4.50 and have it delivered within 2 hours.
Pitchforks up.
posted by saysthis at 4:36 PM on June 22, 2017 [27 favorites]
Axios Don't expect House to water down Russia sanctions
I live in a city of 20 million with an average life expectancy of 81.95. I can order my inhaler on an app on my phone for $4.50 and have it delivered within 2 hours.
It is astonishing how Americans have been screwed out of affordable health care that most of the world takes for granted.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:46 PM on June 22, 2017 [40 favorites]
three House Republican sources involved in the process tell me the House bill is shaping up to look very similar to the Iran-Russia sanctions bill that passed the Senate. And it's likely to move pretty fast. House Speaker Paul Ryan wants tough sanctions on Russia, as does Foreign Affairs Committee chairman Ed Royce, who is driving the process.[...]
The big question: will President Trump risk using his veto pen on this legislation if it passes as originally written? Most GOP sources I've spoken to doubt it. While Secretary of State Rex Tillerson has said the administration needs more flexibility to over the Russia-Ukraine conflict — and believes the new sanctions package is unhelpful to that end — Trump can't risk getting his veto overridden by Congress. It looks like there'd be more than enough votes to do so, given the Senate voted 98-2 in favor of the original sanctions package.
I live in a city of 20 million with an average life expectancy of 81.95. I can order my inhaler on an app on my phone for $4.50 and have it delivered within 2 hours.
It is astonishing how Americans have been screwed out of affordable health care that most of the world takes for granted.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:46 PM on June 22, 2017 [40 favorites]
And labor protection, and human rights, and equality under the law. We are not a first world nation, except for the top 20%, who can afford to slightly insulate themselves. The top 1% are vampire squids wrapped around the life giving capital artery, and they do not care if we die. In fact, they'd be happier if we die, and decreased the surplus population.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 4:59 PM on June 22, 2017 [31 favorites]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 4:59 PM on June 22, 2017 [31 favorites]
Just saw a picture of Melania at the picnic. She's wearing a sleeveless dress. Let's hope she doesn't have to go inside the congressional building for anything.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:01 PM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:01 PM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
In fact, they'd be happier if we die, and decreased the surplus population.
But who will clean their toilets and staff their mansions? You know, until robot staff are invented.
posted by Talez at 5:02 PM on June 22, 2017
But who will clean their toilets and staff their mansions? You know, until robot staff are invented.
posted by Talez at 5:02 PM on June 22, 2017
The biggest newspaper in two red states comes out against the Senate bill and its Medicaid cuts.
The Kansas City Star editorial board: Medicaid cuts would be a devastating blow for rural America
posted by chris24 at 5:03 PM on June 22, 2017 [34 favorites]
The Kansas City Star editorial board: Medicaid cuts would be a devastating blow for rural America
posted by chris24 at 5:03 PM on June 22, 2017 [34 favorites]
And labor protection, and human rights, and equality under the law. We are not a first world nation, except for the top 20%, who can afford to slightly insulate themselves. The top 1% are vampire squids wrapped around the life giving capital artery, and they do not care if we die. In fact, they'd be happier if we die, and decreased the surplus population.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 8:59 AM on June 23 [+] [!]
FWIW, I'm in China. Not a first world nation either, and also ruled by a vampire overclass.
But, y'know...it's the difference between being ruled by grifters and the Blood God.
posted by saysthis at 5:06 PM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 8:59 AM on June 23 [+] [!]
FWIW, I'm in China. Not a first world nation either, and also ruled by a vampire overclass.
But, y'know...it's the difference between being ruled by grifters and the Blood God.
posted by saysthis at 5:06 PM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Meanwhile, New Hampshire Republicans accidentally approved a bill allowing pregnant women to commit murder.
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:13 PM on June 22, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:13 PM on June 22, 2017 [15 favorites]
a picture of Melania at the picnic.
Does he ever not mug? Even if he wasn't a monster he'd be repulsive.
posted by readery at 5:18 PM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Does he ever not mug? Even if he wasn't a monster he'd be repulsive.
posted by readery at 5:18 PM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
I wouldn't put a lot of stock in the KC Star as "the biggest newspaper in 2 red states" - it may be surrounded by red, but KC proper is pretty blue, and the Star is definitely so. Or, at least , mostly not red.
posted by jferg at 5:30 PM on June 22, 2017
posted by jferg at 5:30 PM on June 22, 2017
Oh, angrycat, I'm so sorry. Jfc.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 5:36 PM on June 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 5:36 PM on June 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
by any reasonable definition, the republican party is a party of radical terrorists
posted by entropicamericana at 5:51 PM on June 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 5:51 PM on June 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
NBC: Dan Coats, the director of national intelligence, told House investigators Thursday that President Trump seemed obsessed with the Russia probe and repeatedly asked him to say publicly there was no evidence of collusion, a U.S. official familiar with the conversation told NBC News.
Even some of the people hand-picked* by Trump are willing to admit that he is flaming garbage.
* in theory
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:56 PM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Even some of the people hand-picked* by Trump are willing to admit that he is flaming garbage.
* in theory
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:56 PM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
It strikes me that party loyalty has become so paramount that some Senators are ready to sacrifice the well-being of their own constituents in order to vote in lock step with the Republicans. The terrible effects of this bill on states like Ohio and West Virginia would make a reasonable person think those Senators--who are meant to represent the best interests of the people back at home-- could not possibly vote for this bill. I think 30 or 40 years they would not vote for something so damaging to their state, yet here we are.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:01 PM on June 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:01 PM on June 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
I can think of a senator from West Virginia who will vote against this abomination.
posted by Justinian at 6:02 PM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 6:02 PM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
some Senators are ready to sacrifice the well-being of their own constituents in order to vote in lock step with the Republicans.
And their own children's and grandchildrens' wellbeing, if you factor in global warming. I have been at a loss for a while regarding their stupid self-destructiveness and have to keep assuming we are dealing with a cultlike delusion here.
The impulse that made some poor souls castrate themselves, put on identical clothes, and take poison so a comet could take them away doesn't seem any different from the impulse that moves Republicans to literally burn the future down, hurt themselves, and hurt their country in search of yet more tax cuts.
It's not really about money they way most of us understand it, as a necessity--none of the people funding this madness would suffer in any way from paying those taxes, or even many more taxes. They will remain unimaginably safe and comfortable and wealthy. They are in no danger. But they are in the grip of a mania, a delusion, about taxes being the ultimate evil and they're going to try to take us all down with them pursuing that delusion.
Like a lot of evils, it would be funny and absurd, if only so many people didn't end up dead.
posted by emjaybee at 6:18 PM on June 22, 2017 [20 favorites]
And their own children's and grandchildrens' wellbeing, if you factor in global warming. I have been at a loss for a while regarding their stupid self-destructiveness and have to keep assuming we are dealing with a cultlike delusion here.
The impulse that made some poor souls castrate themselves, put on identical clothes, and take poison so a comet could take them away doesn't seem any different from the impulse that moves Republicans to literally burn the future down, hurt themselves, and hurt their country in search of yet more tax cuts.
It's not really about money they way most of us understand it, as a necessity--none of the people funding this madness would suffer in any way from paying those taxes, or even many more taxes. They will remain unimaginably safe and comfortable and wealthy. They are in no danger. But they are in the grip of a mania, a delusion, about taxes being the ultimate evil and they're going to try to take us all down with them pursuing that delusion.
Like a lot of evils, it would be funny and absurd, if only so many people didn't end up dead.
posted by emjaybee at 6:18 PM on June 22, 2017 [20 favorites]
I just feel so impotent and sad. One of my senators is already fighting the good fight on this, vigorously. The other one helped write this turd (in conclusion, Pennsylvania is a land of contrasts). Neither one is movable one way or the other here, so I just sit and seethe.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:21 PM on June 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:21 PM on June 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
Hey did you know it's the Democrats' fault this has to be done in haste and secret? Turns out, it's only because the Dems "refused to participate in the process". Yeah. Cornyn, of course.
About 5:00 in this video
posted by ctmf at 6:33 PM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
About 5:00 in this video
posted by ctmf at 6:33 PM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Dino Grandoni, WaPo: 'How else can a Kenyan creampuff get ahead?’ is just one of the disturbing tweets sent by this Trump Energy Department agency head
Before William C. Bradford was appointed by the Trump administration to run the Energy Department’s Office of Indian Energy, he tweeted a slew of disparaging remarks about the real and imagined ethnic, religious and gender identities of former president Barack Obama, Facebook co-founder Mark Zuckerberg, TV news host Megan Kelly and Japanese Americans during World War II.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:38 PM on June 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
Bradford was recently appointed director of DOE’s office in charge of assisting Native American and Alaska Native tribes and villages with energy development. Before joining the department, he was attorney general of the Chiricahua Apache Nation. He has also been a faculty member at the U.S. Military Academy, the National Defense University, the Coast Guard Academy, and the United Arab Emirates National Defense College and, according to his online biography on the department’s website, he holds a doctorate, a law degree and a master’s in business administration.
angrycat, I'm so sorry, and I feel you.
How many times have we women and minorities felt that helpless, impotent rage in our lives? Knowing that what people will remember is not the event that precipitated our suppressed rage but any sign at all of that anger we displayed. Jeez, what's with them? Why are they reacting that way over such a little thing? Those kinds of people, amirite? Sheesh.
If we each had a dollar for every time in our lives when we've felt that rage and we pooled those dollars together, as a group, we'd be part of the 1% of the 1%. Sending you positive and peaceful vibes.
posted by lord_wolf at 6:43 PM on June 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
How many times have we women and minorities felt that helpless, impotent rage in our lives? Knowing that what people will remember is not the event that precipitated our suppressed rage but any sign at all of that anger we displayed. Jeez, what's with them? Why are they reacting that way over such a little thing? Those kinds of people, amirite? Sheesh.
If we each had a dollar for every time in our lives when we've felt that rage and we pooled those dollars together, as a group, we'd be part of the 1% of the 1%. Sending you positive and peaceful vibes.
posted by lord_wolf at 6:43 PM on June 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
So what has happened to the threat of a filibuster? Are the dems just counting on the reluctant republicans to vote no? if that's the case i wouldn't be surprised to learn that all of these (R) "no"s are just a head fake to make the dems not filibuster.
posted by OHenryPacey at 6:45 PM on June 22, 2017
posted by OHenryPacey at 6:45 PM on June 22, 2017
It won't only not be a surprise, I basically expect it. There is no such thing as a moderate Republican anymore, there's just people who express a lot of concern and doubt but then still vote party line 100% of the time.
I'll take their claimed concerns seriously when they actually start diverging from being in lock-step (goose-step) formation with the Trump agenda by even an inch.
posted by tocts at 6:49 PM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'll take their claimed concerns seriously when they actually start diverging from being in lock-step (goose-step) formation with the Trump agenda by even an inch.
posted by tocts at 6:49 PM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
What filibuster? They're doing this under reconciliation. There is no filibuster.
posted by zachlipton at 6:49 PM on June 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 6:49 PM on June 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
So what has happened to the threat of a filibuster?
You can't filibuster bills passed by reconciliation.
posted by Justinian at 6:50 PM on June 22, 2017
You can't filibuster bills passed by reconciliation.
posted by Justinian at 6:50 PM on June 22, 2017
Ahhhh, the fact that there were no committees involved had me confused.
posted by OHenryPacey at 6:52 PM on June 22, 2017
posted by OHenryPacey at 6:52 PM on June 22, 2017
They can "Filibuster by amendment" by introducing so many amendments that it gums up the works for weeks, but that's a procedural trick that might be circumvented just by changing the rules, so it's risky to try and even riskier to let on that you're going to do it before you do.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:54 PM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:54 PM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
What, you think regular order should be used to revamp 1/6th of the economy? Why do you hate America?
posted by Justinian at 6:54 PM on June 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 6:54 PM on June 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
Has anyone read or heard anything about attempts to strip out the abortion stuff as not being in compliance with the rules for reconciliation? When does the Byrd bath stuff happen?
posted by Justinian at 7:02 PM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 7:02 PM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oh hey look, Bernie Sanders is coming to do a health care rally here on Saturday.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:05 PM on June 22, 2017
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:05 PM on June 22, 2017
That won't happen until the bill is actually on the floor, technically it's a point of order that must be raised, then the parliamentarian will rule, and generally that should be that. Unless McConnell tries shenanigans.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:07 PM on June 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:07 PM on June 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
He may well try shenanigans but its important to make him do it. Don't comply in advance, as the rules for fighting authoritarianism say.
posted by Justinian at 7:12 PM on June 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 7:12 PM on June 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
but that's a procedural trick that might be circumvented just by changing the rules, so it's risky to try
We have to get over this thinking. There is nothing less risky. A tool that will be immediately taken away when used is not a tool worth preserving. It is arguably more important to attempt to use it and have it taken away as soon as possible, so that you don't need to allow the opposition party to use it later.
posted by phearlez at 7:13 PM on June 22, 2017 [46 favorites]
We have to get over this thinking. There is nothing less risky. A tool that will be immediately taken away when used is not a tool worth preserving. It is arguably more important to attempt to use it and have it taken away as soon as possible, so that you don't need to allow the opposition party to use it later.
posted by phearlez at 7:13 PM on June 22, 2017 [46 favorites]
My current talking point re AHCA is "Life expectancies for pretty much all Americans are about to go down." The details don't matter so much as that fact, to me. If it goes through, and isn't removed or replaced, some people will die sooner but everyone is more likely to die younger and get sicker in the meantime.
My family is not one with a great gene pool, so even with good healthcare I've always known I might not live as long as I'd like. But I did hope I could at least beat my parents and grandparents and make it into my 80s. Now I'm wondering if I should be thinking in a much shorter timeline.
posted by emjaybee at 7:20 PM on June 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
My family is not one with a great gene pool, so even with good healthcare I've always known I might not live as long as I'd like. But I did hope I could at least beat my parents and grandparents and make it into my 80s. Now I'm wondering if I should be thinking in a much shorter timeline.
posted by emjaybee at 7:20 PM on June 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
My understanding, which is weak on this point, is that filibustering by amendment isn't as useful as it sounds. Amendments to reconciliation can be discarded if they're non-germane or not revenue neutral. Who decides if an amendment is germane? The chair, meaning whoever McConnell puts in that seat, and it takes 50 votes to overrule the chair, the same as passing the bill.
I mean, hey, I'll see them try anything, but it is, at best, a trick that drags things out for a little while longer so Democrats can get some last minute news coverage and urge people to call their Senators, and not some kind of magic trick for stopping this.
posted by zachlipton at 7:27 PM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
I mean, hey, I'll see them try anything, but it is, at best, a trick that drags things out for a little while longer so Democrats can get some last minute news coverage and urge people to call their Senators, and not some kind of magic trick for stopping this.
posted by zachlipton at 7:27 PM on June 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think Rand Paul votes against the bill. But I don't see two others. Cruz is talking bullshit; he will obviously vote for it. I assume McConnell will let either Murkowski or Collins vote against it as well. Heller is probably toast either way so he'll vote for it. So who else is there? Johnson, Lee, Portman, and Capito are spineless lickspittles and will fall in line after tiny, meaningless amendments.
posted by Justinian at 7:33 PM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 7:33 PM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
So who else is there?
Jeff Flake, but he also falls into the Spineless Lickspittle category. I can't see how it doesn't pass either.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:41 PM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Jeff Flake, but he also falls into the Spineless Lickspittle category. I can't see how it doesn't pass either.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:41 PM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Heller (NV) is a real wildcard right now. Heller is weak for the midterms, and Gov. Sandoval is not exactly what you'd call thrilled about the bill. They may be able to buy him off (please tell me we can call it the Vegas Vig!), but he's in an interesting position. If you live in Nevada, for the love of god please call his office and get everyone you know to do so to the extent humanly possible.
posted by zachlipton at 7:46 PM on June 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:46 PM on June 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
ELECTIONS NEWS
** NBC poll finds Democrats leading the generic congressional ballot 50-42. That's the largest lead by either party since 2013. In GOP-held seats, it's GOP +11, which sounds good for the GOP, until you consider that GOP-held seats were won by an average of +35.
** UT-03 special -- The United Utah Party has filed a suit seeking ballot access in the election for Chaffetz's old seat. The party seems to be pitching itself as a centrist/Third Way choice; their candidate is Jim Bennett, son of former GOP Sen. Bob Bennett.
** WI-01 (2018) -- That Randy Bryce ad for the Dem nomination in Paul Ryan's district has gotten a lot of love, but worth noting that Bryce has lost multiple elections in the past few years. The race has at least two other candidates, activist David Yankovich and Janesville School Board member Cathy Myers.
** SD Sen (2018) -- Dems have a tough row to hoe in 2018, but it's been notable how much trouble the GOP has had in recruiting good candidates. ND would normally be a good pickup opportunity for GOP. Dem Senator Heidi Heitkamp has not yet publicly committed to run again, but has raised $1.6M in Q117 (i.e., she's running). And top GOP choice Rep. Kevin Cramer has continued to waffle about whether to get in or not, and has made some dumb comments of late. The longer Cramer waits, the tougher it is for someone else to jump in - you really want a year of campaigning for a Senate seat.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:47 PM on June 22, 2017 [37 favorites]
** NBC poll finds Democrats leading the generic congressional ballot 50-42. That's the largest lead by either party since 2013. In GOP-held seats, it's GOP +11, which sounds good for the GOP, until you consider that GOP-held seats were won by an average of +35.
** UT-03 special -- The United Utah Party has filed a suit seeking ballot access in the election for Chaffetz's old seat. The party seems to be pitching itself as a centrist/Third Way choice; their candidate is Jim Bennett, son of former GOP Sen. Bob Bennett.
** WI-01 (2018) -- That Randy Bryce ad for the Dem nomination in Paul Ryan's district has gotten a lot of love, but worth noting that Bryce has lost multiple elections in the past few years. The race has at least two other candidates, activist David Yankovich and Janesville School Board member Cathy Myers.
** SD Sen (2018) -- Dems have a tough row to hoe in 2018, but it's been notable how much trouble the GOP has had in recruiting good candidates. ND would normally be a good pickup opportunity for GOP. Dem Senator Heidi Heitkamp has not yet publicly committed to run again, but has raised $1.6M in Q117 (i.e., she's running). And top GOP choice Rep. Kevin Cramer has continued to waffle about whether to get in or not, and has made some dumb comments of late. The longer Cramer waits, the tougher it is for someone else to jump in - you really want a year of campaigning for a Senate seat.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:47 PM on June 22, 2017 [37 favorites]
East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94: "Remember when Trump promised he was going to launch a probe into election fraud? Kinda wish he'd hurry up with that..."
There IS one, it's just not interested in addressing actual concerns, but rather faking up stuff to exclude voters. It's led by alleged "human being" Kris Kobach. Plenty more here, if you want to be nauseated.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:19 PM on June 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
There IS one, it's just not interested in addressing actual concerns, but rather faking up stuff to exclude voters. It's led by alleged "human being" Kris Kobach. Plenty more here, if you want to be nauseated.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:19 PM on June 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
Democrats really should pull out the stops to do everything they can to gum up the works. The healthcare reconciliation bill expires in September and then they will need 60 votes to do anything.
posted by JackFlash at 8:40 PM on June 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by JackFlash at 8:40 PM on June 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
T.D. Strange: "Let's not forget Republicans also don't fear election consequences because they've managed to pervert democracy into a situation where they can win absolute majority control without winning a majority of votes on any level."
I absolutely take your larger point, but the GOP *did* win an actual majority of House votes this last time: 63,173,815 to 61,776,554. Of course, gerrymandering then blew that into a much larger majority.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:46 PM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
I absolutely take your larger point, but the GOP *did* win an actual majority of House votes this last time: 63,173,815 to 61,776,554. Of course, gerrymandering then blew that into a much larger majority.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:46 PM on June 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
(A ridiculous amount of) evening reading:
Bloomberg's graphical healthcare explainer has expanded, now with graphs. And here's a good chart from John Graves as Vanderbilt that shows how much coverage the BCRA [which we're apparently pronouncing bic-rah, because the worst thing in the worst timeline of course gets the worst name] buys you as compared to other ways to get health insurance (unsurprisingly, it's the worst).
One thing that frightens me is that the Republicans learned their lesson from the House bill and arranged the most severe cuts to Medicaid so that they'll hit outside the 10-year budget window that the CBO looks at. This may mean the top level "N million people losing coverage" number will be a lot better than the 23 million we had in the House (and certainly better than the "14 million people lose coverage next year" number we had there), but the end effect is actually going to be even worse for Medicaid over the long term, because the Senate bill would only allow Medicaid to grow at the rate of general urban inflation. In case you haven't noticed somehow, health care costs grow by quite a but more than that, and while that's slowly starting to improve, that's still going to happen. What this bill does is tell poor people that their health care costs can only rise at the same rate as, say, grocery prices, while wealthier people still get health care that grows at 5%+/year.
Tfw when basically the last Republican health policy guy on the planet who has some vague interest in at least some people getting heatlh care praises the Senate bill as "the greatest policy achievement by a GOP Congress in my lifetime" and only later realizes they eliminated the individual mandate and didn't replace it with any incentive to stay covered. Do you want a death spiral? Because that's how you get a death spiral.
Jennifer Rubin: Trump’s bluff is called, revealing another self-inflicted legal wound. In short: does threatening Comey with non-existent tapes pose a legal problem for the President? It certainly doesn't help his case.
David Remnick: Who in the White House Will Turn Against Donald Trump?
Foreign Policy: Not Dazed, but Definitely Confused: Allies Struggle to Divine U.S. Policy: "On trade, climate, foreign aid, and more, America’s allies wonder what U.S. policy is — and who, if anyone, can take America’s place."
posted by zachlipton at 8:46 PM on June 22, 2017 [37 favorites]
Bloomberg's graphical healthcare explainer has expanded, now with graphs. And here's a good chart from John Graves as Vanderbilt that shows how much coverage the BCRA [which we're apparently pronouncing bic-rah, because the worst thing in the worst timeline of course gets the worst name] buys you as compared to other ways to get health insurance (unsurprisingly, it's the worst).
One thing that frightens me is that the Republicans learned their lesson from the House bill and arranged the most severe cuts to Medicaid so that they'll hit outside the 10-year budget window that the CBO looks at. This may mean the top level "N million people losing coverage" number will be a lot better than the 23 million we had in the House (and certainly better than the "14 million people lose coverage next year" number we had there), but the end effect is actually going to be even worse for Medicaid over the long term, because the Senate bill would only allow Medicaid to grow at the rate of general urban inflation. In case you haven't noticed somehow, health care costs grow by quite a but more than that, and while that's slowly starting to improve, that's still going to happen. What this bill does is tell poor people that their health care costs can only rise at the same rate as, say, grocery prices, while wealthier people still get health care that grows at 5%+/year.
Tfw when basically the last Republican health policy guy on the planet who has some vague interest in at least some people getting heatlh care praises the Senate bill as "the greatest policy achievement by a GOP Congress in my lifetime" and only later realizes they eliminated the individual mandate and didn't replace it with any incentive to stay covered. Do you want a death spiral? Because that's how you get a death spiral.
Jennifer Rubin: Trump’s bluff is called, revealing another self-inflicted legal wound. In short: does threatening Comey with non-existent tapes pose a legal problem for the President? It certainly doesn't help his case.
David Remnick: Who in the White House Will Turn Against Donald Trump?
Veteran Washington reporters tell me that they have never observed this kind of anxiety, regret, and sense of imminent personal doom among White House staffers—not to this degree, anyway. These troubled aides seem to think that they can help their own standing by turning on those around them—and that by retailing information anonymously they will be able to live with themselves after serving a President who has proved so disconnected from the truth and reality.KHN: Promises Made To Protect Preexisting Conditions Prove Hollow
Senate Republicans praised the Affordable Care Act replacement bill they presented Thursday as preserving coverage for people with cancer, mental illness and other chronic illness.Politico: The Senate majority leader doesn’t have the votes yet. But if anyone can get them, it’s him.
But the legislation may do no such thing, according to health law experts who have read it closely.
Thune added that a more dire argument is beginning to circulate among Republican leaders.Craig Silverman: Macedonian Publishers Are Panicking After Facebook Killed Their US Political Pages, in which Silverman gets to pull off the rare trick of quoting one of his sources calling him an asshole.
“If we don’t get this done and we end up with Democratic majorities in ‘18, we’ll have single payer. That’s what we’ll be dealing with,” Thune said.
Foreign Policy: Not Dazed, but Definitely Confused: Allies Struggle to Divine U.S. Policy: "On trade, climate, foreign aid, and more, America’s allies wonder what U.S. policy is — and who, if anyone, can take America’s place."
It’s not that diplomats can’t meet with relevant officials from the administration — several say access has actually increased under Trump. It’s that those meetings often end with more questions than answers. That makes it hard to dispel the unease and concern that gripped many U.S. allies during last year’s presidential campaign, when President Donald Trump tore up the U.S. foreign-policy playbook and has yet to find a new one.NBC: House Democrats, Looking Ahead to 2018, Pledge to Prioritize Voting Rights
“Even if we do get meetings” with the Department of State, a European source told Foreign Policy, “most of the time what happens is that they speak in personal capacity — they don’t have capacity to speak for the administration.”
The same is true for the National Security Council at the White House, “including on very sensitive issues.” People say, “I cannot speak for the president, because I’m not sure what his position on this is.”
House Democrats introduced legislation Thursday to restore parts of the Voting Rights Act while pledging to make the issue of voting rights a priority if the party wins in 2018.The first part of the Fox & Friends interview with Trump drops tomorrow morning, and based on this question, I'm not expecting much journalism. Speaking of not much journalism, Spicer will brief off-camera tomorrow.
...
Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, while calling on her GOP colleagues to make it a bipartisan measure, said the bill "will be introduced on the very first day" Democrats regain control of the House in 2018.
“We want people to understand they have the right to vote and their vote will be counted and counted as cast. Many people sacrificed so much for the right to vote in our country,” Pelosi said. "You have our commitment that this will become the law when we become the majority and we want it to become the law even before then."
posted by zachlipton at 8:46 PM on June 22, 2017 [37 favorites]
I was very pleased to see Pelosi mention first day bills on voting rights. I think they should be formulating a list of stuff they will immediately be passing as a campaign tactic - it certainly worked for the Contract With America.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:49 PM on June 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 8:49 PM on June 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
One more: Brian Stelter—Why are these White House briefings heard but not seen?, because this bit from Jay Rosen nails it:
posted by zachlipton at 9:10 PM on June 22, 2017 [23 favorites]
New York University journalism professor Jay Rosen said he disagreed with Kirby's assertion that the administration is hurting itself by avoiding questions from reporters.It's permanent campaign mode, and there's absolutely no concession to the idea that governing is any different from campaigning.
"That's true only if you assume that Trump is trying to win the argument, persuade the doubters, or gain the approval of a greater percentage of the public," Rosen told CNN. "What if he's not? In campaigns you can quit trying to reach the undecided and just focus on turning out the base. Trump seems to have taken this approach to governing... It's time we saw the decay in communications as a feature of the Trump presidency, not a bug."
posted by zachlipton at 9:10 PM on June 22, 2017 [23 favorites]
Democrats really should pull out the stops to do everything they can to gum up the works. The healthcare reconciliation bill expires in September and then they will need 60 votes to do anything.
posted by JackFlash at 12:40 PM on June 23 [1 favorite −] Favorite added! [!]
THIS SO LOUD I'M IN CAPSLOCK.
posted by saysthis at 9:33 PM on June 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by JackFlash at 12:40 PM on June 23 [1 favorite −] Favorite added! [!]
THIS SO LOUD I'M IN CAPSLOCK.
posted by saysthis at 9:33 PM on June 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
I find it almost incomprehensible that Republicans would pass this bill. They know how horrible this is polling and that taking away social services from people is political suicide. The big problem for Republicans is that they've attacked Obamacare from the left for 8 years. They complained that it made healthcare too expensive and that it didn't cover enough people. They said that it was too confusing and bureaucratic. Their own President is on record as praising single payer systems in other countries and promising that everyone will have really great coverage. Well, now they are in a position where anything they do other than implement single payer will piss off their own supporters. Republican voters will see anything they do as a betrayal. Maybe not now but in a few years when entire families are destroyed by this, yes.
They could pass the bill and all retire with golden parachutes as lobbyists, fox newscasters, or think tank specialists. Of course, if they do this Democrats will just overturn the law and probably pass single payer within the next 10 years.
They could pass such a shitty and destructive bill that they convince Democrats to jump in later and help them rebuild healthcare, but instead of compromising from Obamacare, Democrats are forced to negotiate up from almost nothing. The "bipartisan" process effectively ends debate on healthcare for a generation.
They could fail with this bill to make the radicals calm down and then pass something else. In a sane world they would pass Obamacare, call it Trumpcare, find some Democrats to sign off on it, and declare victory for everyone.
But honestly, what is their plan? They are boxed in by their own lies.
posted by Glibpaxman at 9:42 PM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
They could pass the bill and all retire with golden parachutes as lobbyists, fox newscasters, or think tank specialists. Of course, if they do this Democrats will just overturn the law and probably pass single payer within the next 10 years.
They could pass such a shitty and destructive bill that they convince Democrats to jump in later and help them rebuild healthcare, but instead of compromising from Obamacare, Democrats are forced to negotiate up from almost nothing. The "bipartisan" process effectively ends debate on healthcare for a generation.
They could fail with this bill to make the radicals calm down and then pass something else. In a sane world they would pass Obamacare, call it Trumpcare, find some Democrats to sign off on it, and declare victory for everyone.
But honestly, what is their plan? They are boxed in by their own lies.
posted by Glibpaxman at 9:42 PM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yeah, my senators are a maggot in a skin suit and Ted Cruz. Although I may have the evil bastards mixed up again.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 10:06 PM on June 22, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 10:06 PM on June 22, 2017 [21 favorites]
I've seen a lot of precise estimates of the number of people who will lose coverage with AHCA, and lots of generic claims that "people will die," but I rarely see precise numbers on how many will be killed. Is that because it's considered gauche or not cricket to mention such things, or because Democrats are somehow still afraid of being pilloried for any perceived imprecision in the estimate? There seems to be pretty solid data on this, with a tight range of estimates from 20,000-50,000 deaths a year if 20 million lose coverage (1 2 3).¹ It seems odd that I never seem to hear these numbers though, even in fiery speeches like Warren's today. Are Democrats still too timid to say, "This vote will likely kill at least 20,000 Americans a year, many of them children. You, Senator, will be directly responsible for murdering over 100,000 Americans over the next decade if you vote for this bill."
¹ For counter-arguments, see for instance 4 and 5. They are imho much weaker and mainly consist of throwing chaff and uncertainty, though both are also notable for a tutting assumption that Democrats are being childishly inflammatory in assuming Republicans would actually pass a bill removing coverage for 20 million Americans.
posted by chortly at 10:06 PM on June 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
¹ For counter-arguments, see for instance 4 and 5. They are imho much weaker and mainly consist of throwing chaff and uncertainty, though both are also notable for a tutting assumption that Democrats are being childishly inflammatory in assuming Republicans would actually pass a bill removing coverage for 20 million Americans.
posted by chortly at 10:06 PM on June 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
"It occurs to me that the witches and magic workers who are doing Trump binding spells, ought to do McConnell binding spells as well."
Covered. The spell specifically also mentions:
"And bind, too,
All those who enable his wickedness
And those whose mouths speak his poisonous lies"
"I find it almost incomprehensible that Republicans would pass this bill. They know how horrible this is polling and that taking away social services from people is political suicide."
Serious not-snarking question: IS IT these days, though? If Trump can just shoot anyone he wants and get away with it, why can't the Republicans kill 23-24 million people and get away with that? So far they get away with everything they pull.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:09 PM on June 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
Covered. The spell specifically also mentions:
"And bind, too,
All those who enable his wickedness
And those whose mouths speak his poisonous lies"
"I find it almost incomprehensible that Republicans would pass this bill. They know how horrible this is polling and that taking away social services from people is political suicide."
Serious not-snarking question: IS IT these days, though? If Trump can just shoot anyone he wants and get away with it, why can't the Republicans kill 23-24 million people and get away with that? So far they get away with everything they pull.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:09 PM on June 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
I find it almost incomprehensible that Republicans would pass this bill. They know how horrible this is polling and that taking away social services from people is political suicide.
I think we're going to find that this isn't the case, not nearly as much as we think it is, and I think that's what the Republicans in Congress have figured as well. If Republican voters were turned off by Republican policies directly hurting them while only benefiting the rich, well, there wouldn't be any elected Republicans in the government today. We know that, whatever noise people raise, those who have been voting R will keep voting R, because that's what they did the last time Republicans punched them in the face economically, and it's what they did the time before that too. It's frustrating and we've had a lot of debate about why it works that way, exactly, but I bet we're going to find out that it works that way again.
posted by IAmUnaware at 10:10 PM on June 22, 2017 [21 favorites]
I think we're going to find that this isn't the case, not nearly as much as we think it is, and I think that's what the Republicans in Congress have figured as well. If Republican voters were turned off by Republican policies directly hurting them while only benefiting the rich, well, there wouldn't be any elected Republicans in the government today. We know that, whatever noise people raise, those who have been voting R will keep voting R, because that's what they did the last time Republicans punched them in the face economically, and it's what they did the time before that too. It's frustrating and we've had a lot of debate about why it works that way, exactly, but I bet we're going to find out that it works that way again.
posted by IAmUnaware at 10:10 PM on June 22, 2017 [21 favorites]
People will convince themselves it's not actually awful. Or they will convince themselves the bill was only bad because of "the Democrat" stubbornness. Or something. Tribalism and group affiliation is strong. Also the Republicans are not so stupid that all the provisions will take effect immediately, so it won't be as apparent what it's going to do until closer to the mid-terms or even after.
posted by R343L at 10:19 PM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by R343L at 10:19 PM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
Rachel Maddow goes into the history of ADAPT protests
posted by Soliloquy at 11:44 PM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Soliloquy at 11:44 PM on June 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
t's frustrating and we've had a lot of debate about why it works that way, exactly, but I bet we're going to find out that it works that way again.
I have zero doubt that it will work that way for a good chunk of the Republican base, some of whom aren't capable of thinking about policy, some of whom are but see policies that fuck over poor people as justice, some for whom all they have in life is their pride no matter how misplaced it is and they're not going to let someone talk down to them no matter how much they know, some of whom see the world in ideological terms pure and simple, some of whom have the usual strange mix of human non-reasons that seem plausible to them, etc etc.
There have got to be some on the margins this will affect and give pause to, though.
posted by wildblueyonder at 12:09 AM on June 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
I have zero doubt that it will work that way for a good chunk of the Republican base, some of whom aren't capable of thinking about policy, some of whom are but see policies that fuck over poor people as justice, some for whom all they have in life is their pride no matter how misplaced it is and they're not going to let someone talk down to them no matter how much they know, some of whom see the world in ideological terms pure and simple, some of whom have the usual strange mix of human non-reasons that seem plausible to them, etc etc.
There have got to be some on the margins this will affect and give pause to, though.
posted by wildblueyonder at 12:09 AM on June 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
If you look back, the original polling on the ACA was not bad. It only went down after a relentless GOP campaign to tar it as the worst thing ever. We need the same thing in reverse. Yes, we're fighting tribalism, which has only gotten worse over the past decade. We do have the advantages of even initial polling being lousy, and of the AHCA *actually* having a terrible impact ("600 hospitals closed, 22 million people with no insurance", etc.
The Dems need to go full Cato the Elder and end every message with, "Ceterum censeo AHCA esse delendam."
posted by Chrysostom at 12:49 AM on June 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
The Dems need to go full Cato the Elder and end every message with, "Ceterum censeo AHCA esse delendam."
posted by Chrysostom at 12:49 AM on June 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
People will convince themselves it's not actually awful. Or they will convince themselves the bill was only bad because of "the Democrat" stubbornness. Or something. Tribalism and group affiliation is strong. Also the Republicans are not so stupid that all the provisions will take effect immediately, so it won't be as apparent what it's going to do until closer to the mid-terms or even after.
posted by R343L at 2:19 PM on June 23 [2 favorites +] [!]
You know that thing I posted about living in a city of 20 million with a life expectancy of 81.95 and getting Ventolin (the ozone-killing kind, i.e. the Mexican Ventolin, the stuff that gets in your lungs good, but that US drug companies had banned on an environmental pretense because fuck you (there seems to be a legit reason for not because CFC's but)) delivered to my door for $4.50, and bulk buying for $3.37 a pop like it was Kleenex without insurance or an ID or even a question about why so many? In China, a non-developed country? I'm in Beijing. The Big Smog, the Smokey Apple, the Lung Cancer Capital of Neverland, and where global Cadillac health insurance is $5000 USD a year, but if you want the US-inclusive version it's 5 times that.
Let's lay it down. Living costs are lower because it IS a developing country, but the average individual wage in central Beijing, where I live, is the same as Portugal, or 3/4 of the US average. I'm not in a poor area. The migrants are around, but in short supply, and getting paid close to the average...it's the pensioners, with the so-called universal health insurance and supposedly relatives in the city (they check for hukou now), who get the min-wage public street sweeping jobs here. 2/3+ of city residents own a car despite the ridiculous 100%+ tax on imported cars and not so ridiculous license plate lottery, but old ones got grandfathered and you can buy one for $8000+ if you really must drive now (oh and your car is banned from the roads if more than 13 years old because emissions standards, because fuck you, and no, they're not corruptible unless you can throw down $100k USD for every corrupt interaction, and such people number in the low ten thousands because serious, serious crackdowns). Home ownership is limited to two per person, and if you're not a Chinese citizen, one and you have to live there. Checks aren't onerous, but penalties are, goodbye to six months wages if they catch you. Gas prices are capped, but personal income tax and sales tax is commensurate with the US, and the vast majority of the government's tax revenue is drawn from a) onerous regulations on corporate registry, b) onerous regulations on corporate tracking, and c) onerous taxes on transactions that must be proved before they can receive any sort of legal protection. Yes, political restrictions, blah blah, they only enforce that if you organize effectively. Public transit is amazing.
What I'm trying to say is, imagine an environment where the average human who isn't trying to overthrow the government and who just wants to survive can get along. These people built it, and they capped and regulated most of the big ticket pressures/bubble possibilities Americans blow through their paychecks on. It's not paradise by any stretch, but it's an environment that is straight up absent all the Republican levers, and here, my lifesaving medication is $3.37 a pop (lasts me 2 months), rent for this 4br 200sqm downtown apartment is $2000/mo. and locked in to a 5% increase per year for 3 years (I have roommates, my bill is $600-ish a month + $50 utilities, agency fee was a month's rent, no key fees/finder's fees), and the most devastating life-destroying cancer without insurance will set you back $40,000 a year, from multiple anecdotes, including my ex-wife's father which I was there for, and the doctor studied at Mayo. Credit checks are...being contemplated, but still mostly non-existent. I'm literally downtown in the capital of the second largest economy on earth.
Forgive me for going on at length about this, but i'm trying to say, what are the results you're getting? "Cause over here, (oh and hey, no police brutality issues (and you know the qualifier on that is "political crimes", but the vast majority don't commit those, aside from that they don't have guns and don't get randomly shitty with you, they're actually nice most of the time), military adventurism, or no cell/bank account service BS) even vaguely in the global middle class, you live right. "Living well", that's up to interpretation, but you get what you need to be okay.
Extra icing? I was in Chongqing recently, purely because I had nothing to do and plane tickets were $50 (off season, but it's hundreds of miles away with crap rail connections), and it was grittier, but I talked to people, living costs are a third of Beijing. Chongqing is a bigger city than Beijing with much more challenging architecture and history, and I mean, I know I'm visibly white, but I hang out with gritty types, people who've been to jail and who actively avoid the police, people without diplomas who have met the system and been ground down, I sleep on their couches, and they are appalled by my stories of America.
Is that what you're getting? What is the system you live in? I believe in the American experiment, freedom of speech & association, democracy, freedom from thoughtcrime worry, etc. But, if you believe me, even half believe me, will you please jump out of the boiling pot and call your Congress-people and tell them to stop screwing you (and if you have, here's some new talking points, best I could bang out in an hour)? Will you please tell your friends how far we've fallen behind? We can do better than this. Please, let's do better than China. I've done the experiment, and we failed, and that's why I'm here, not home. Twice the wealth...and what are our outcomes? Resist.
posted by saysthis at 1:52 AM on June 23, 2017 [55 favorites]
posted by R343L at 2:19 PM on June 23 [2 favorites +] [!]
You know that thing I posted about living in a city of 20 million with a life expectancy of 81.95 and getting Ventolin (the ozone-killing kind, i.e. the Mexican Ventolin, the stuff that gets in your lungs good, but that US drug companies had banned on an environmental pretense because fuck you (there seems to be a legit reason for not because CFC's but)) delivered to my door for $4.50, and bulk buying for $3.37 a pop like it was Kleenex without insurance or an ID or even a question about why so many? In China, a non-developed country? I'm in Beijing. The Big Smog, the Smokey Apple, the Lung Cancer Capital of Neverland, and where global Cadillac health insurance is $5000 USD a year, but if you want the US-inclusive version it's 5 times that.
Let's lay it down. Living costs are lower because it IS a developing country, but the average individual wage in central Beijing, where I live, is the same as Portugal, or 3/4 of the US average. I'm not in a poor area. The migrants are around, but in short supply, and getting paid close to the average...it's the pensioners, with the so-called universal health insurance and supposedly relatives in the city (they check for hukou now), who get the min-wage public street sweeping jobs here. 2/3+ of city residents own a car despite the ridiculous 100%+ tax on imported cars and not so ridiculous license plate lottery, but old ones got grandfathered and you can buy one for $8000+ if you really must drive now (oh and your car is banned from the roads if more than 13 years old because emissions standards, because fuck you, and no, they're not corruptible unless you can throw down $100k USD for every corrupt interaction, and such people number in the low ten thousands because serious, serious crackdowns). Home ownership is limited to two per person, and if you're not a Chinese citizen, one and you have to live there. Checks aren't onerous, but penalties are, goodbye to six months wages if they catch you. Gas prices are capped, but personal income tax and sales tax is commensurate with the US, and the vast majority of the government's tax revenue is drawn from a) onerous regulations on corporate registry, b) onerous regulations on corporate tracking, and c) onerous taxes on transactions that must be proved before they can receive any sort of legal protection. Yes, political restrictions, blah blah, they only enforce that if you organize effectively. Public transit is amazing.
What I'm trying to say is, imagine an environment where the average human who isn't trying to overthrow the government and who just wants to survive can get along. These people built it, and they capped and regulated most of the big ticket pressures/bubble possibilities Americans blow through their paychecks on. It's not paradise by any stretch, but it's an environment that is straight up absent all the Republican levers, and here, my lifesaving medication is $3.37 a pop (lasts me 2 months), rent for this 4br 200sqm downtown apartment is $2000/mo. and locked in to a 5% increase per year for 3 years (I have roommates, my bill is $600-ish a month + $50 utilities, agency fee was a month's rent, no key fees/finder's fees), and the most devastating life-destroying cancer without insurance will set you back $40,000 a year, from multiple anecdotes, including my ex-wife's father which I was there for, and the doctor studied at Mayo. Credit checks are...being contemplated, but still mostly non-existent. I'm literally downtown in the capital of the second largest economy on earth.
Forgive me for going on at length about this, but i'm trying to say, what are the results you're getting? "Cause over here, (oh and hey, no police brutality issues (and you know the qualifier on that is "political crimes", but the vast majority don't commit those, aside from that they don't have guns and don't get randomly shitty with you, they're actually nice most of the time), military adventurism, or no cell/bank account service BS) even vaguely in the global middle class, you live right. "Living well", that's up to interpretation, but you get what you need to be okay.
Extra icing? I was in Chongqing recently, purely because I had nothing to do and plane tickets were $50 (off season, but it's hundreds of miles away with crap rail connections), and it was grittier, but I talked to people, living costs are a third of Beijing. Chongqing is a bigger city than Beijing with much more challenging architecture and history, and I mean, I know I'm visibly white, but I hang out with gritty types, people who've been to jail and who actively avoid the police, people without diplomas who have met the system and been ground down, I sleep on their couches, and they are appalled by my stories of America.
Is that what you're getting? What is the system you live in? I believe in the American experiment, freedom of speech & association, democracy, freedom from thoughtcrime worry, etc. But, if you believe me, even half believe me, will you please jump out of the boiling pot and call your Congress-people and tell them to stop screwing you (and if you have, here's some new talking points, best I could bang out in an hour)? Will you please tell your friends how far we've fallen behind? We can do better than this. Please, let's do better than China. I've done the experiment, and we failed, and that's why I'm here, not home. Twice the wealth...and what are our outcomes? Resist.
posted by saysthis at 1:52 AM on June 23, 2017 [55 favorites]
Fucking Joe Scarborough on MSNBC is lauding the supposed fact that the Comey→Rosenstein→Mueller investigation indicates that American institutions are working as intended, blah blah blah 1776 something.
No, it's only because the country's fascists rallied around the most buffoonishly incompetent would-be dictator that he's even met with the minimal institutional friction he has against things like openly declaring an intention to round up people by the millions.
posted by XMLicious at 3:27 AM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
No, it's only because the country's fascists rallied around the most buffoonishly incompetent would-be dictator that he's even met with the minimal institutional friction he has against things like openly declaring an intention to round up people by the millions.
posted by XMLicious at 3:27 AM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
This entire article is amazing. If you handed it to someone who just woke up from a two-year-long coma, they'd immediately go back into another coma. WaPo—Ashley Parker and Philip Rucker: Trump is struggling to stay calm on Russia, one morning call at a time
President Trump has a new morning ritual. Around 6:30 a.m. on many days — before all the network news shows have come on the air — he gets on the phone with a member of his outside legal team to chew over all things Russia.posted by zachlipton at 3:42 AM on June 23, 2017 [62 favorites]
The calls — detailed by three senior White House officials — are part strategy consultation and part presidential venting session, during which Trump’s lawyers and public-relations gurus take turns reviewing the latest headlines with him. They also devise their plan for battling his avowed enemies: the special counsel leading the Russia investigation; the “fake news” media chronicling it; and, in some instances, the president’s own Justice Department overseeing the probe.
His advisers have encouraged the calls — which the early-to-rise Trump takes from his private quarters in the White House residence — in hopes that he can compartmentalize the widening Russia investigation. By the time the president arrives for work in the Oval Office, the thinking goes, he will no longer be consumed by the Russia probe that he complains hangs over his presidency like a darkening cloud.
It rarely works, however. Asked whether the tactic was effective, one top White House adviser paused for several seconds and then just laughed.
Ugh. Just heard Toomey on NPR saying that he pledged to the people of Pennsylvania that he'd repeal Obamacare and he supports this bill.
posted by octothorpe at 3:51 AM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by octothorpe at 3:51 AM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Some in the White House fret over what they view as the president’s fits of rage, and Trump’s longtime friends say his mood has been more sour than at any point since they have known him. They privately worry about his health, noting that he appears to have gained weight in recent months and that the darkness around his eyes reveals his stress.
It really is like Hitler's last days.
Like everyone said before the election, he is temperamentally unfit to be president. It's sad that so many Americans ignored that information.
posted by mumimor at 4:15 AM on June 23, 2017 [23 favorites]
It really is like Hitler's last days.
Like everyone said before the election, he is temperamentally unfit to be president. It's sad that so many Americans ignored that information.
posted by mumimor at 4:15 AM on June 23, 2017 [23 favorites]
He'll never be removed with the 25th Amendment unless he falls into a coma or is otherwise completely incapacitated. Being a rageaholic narcissistic manbaby isn't going to do it; we knew that before he was elected.
Besides, they need Trump in there to sign the AHCA, tax "reform", and whatever other giant shitburgers they can get passed in the next 2 years and then, when the economy and/or society goes to pieces, they can blame Trump and say he wasn't actually a real Republican. Pence is a conservative Republican through and through so he can't serve as a scapegoat in the same fashion.
posted by Justinian at 4:19 AM on June 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
Besides, they need Trump in there to sign the AHCA, tax "reform", and whatever other giant shitburgers they can get passed in the next 2 years and then, when the economy and/or society goes to pieces, they can blame Trump and say he wasn't actually a real Republican. Pence is a conservative Republican through and through so he can't serve as a scapegoat in the same fashion.
posted by Justinian at 4:19 AM on June 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
It really is like Hitler's last days.
Except for whose side the Russians are on
posted by thelonius at 4:25 AM on June 23, 2017 [33 favorites]
Except for whose side the Russians are on
posted by thelonius at 4:25 AM on June 23, 2017 [33 favorites]
I've done the experiment, and we failed, and that's why I'm here, not home. Twice the wealth...and what are our outcomes? Resist.
For most of my life I've viewed the US with a mixture of awe and disdain. A feeling of kinship, friendly competition, envy and trust.
That feeling is gone. Now, the US scares and depresses me. People I visit live in gated compounds or apartment complexes, talking to robots so they can avoid going out into the streets, because in the streets, so many people have missing teeth, even missing limbs, and it's scary, because they might shout at you or worse. People work 60, 80 hours a week to pay hundreds, thousands, hundreds of thousands of dollars for basic services like housing, healthcare, security, and education, spend more time in a terrible commute, then relax in front of enormous displays, where they play games where they beat people up or watch videos showing people beat each other up. And everywhere is menace: food and drink that assaults you, cars that look like they want to attack you, a police force that looks like an army, while the army fights endless wars...
What the fuck happened to you man? You used to be beautiful. Resist.
posted by dmh at 4:28 AM on June 23, 2017 [47 favorites]
For most of my life I've viewed the US with a mixture of awe and disdain. A feeling of kinship, friendly competition, envy and trust.
That feeling is gone. Now, the US scares and depresses me. People I visit live in gated compounds or apartment complexes, talking to robots so they can avoid going out into the streets, because in the streets, so many people have missing teeth, even missing limbs, and it's scary, because they might shout at you or worse. People work 60, 80 hours a week to pay hundreds, thousands, hundreds of thousands of dollars for basic services like housing, healthcare, security, and education, spend more time in a terrible commute, then relax in front of enormous displays, where they play games where they beat people up or watch videos showing people beat each other up. And everywhere is menace: food and drink that assaults you, cars that look like they want to attack you, a police force that looks like an army, while the army fights endless wars...
What the fuck happened to you man? You used to be beautiful. Resist.
posted by dmh at 4:28 AM on June 23, 2017 [47 favorites]
Just heard Toomey on NPR saying that he pledged to the people of Pennsylvania that he'd repeal Obamacare and he supports this bill.
Well, he did help write it.
I've been focusing my energies elsewhere lately because Toomey is like talking to a brick wall. He's like a caricature of a politician.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:40 AM on June 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
Well, he did help write it.
I've been focusing my energies elsewhere lately because Toomey is like talking to a brick wall. He's like a caricature of a politician.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:40 AM on June 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
the Senate bill would only allow Medicaid to grow at the rate of general urban inflation. In case you haven't noticed somehow, health care costs grow by quite a but more than that
On NPR yesterday afternoon, alleged professional journalist Kelly McEvers didn't notice when John Thune slipped this bit of dishonesty past her:
And when Thune claimed that there are "lots of examples" of saving money (other than, of course, taking away health insurance), McEvers didn't say "name one."
(Again, it's astonishing to me that Marketplace is allowing itself to be more candid about this dog's breakfast of a bill than NPR.)
Feh.
posted by Gelatin at 5:03 AM on June 23, 2017 [28 favorites]
On NPR yesterday afternoon, alleged professional journalist Kelly McEvers didn't notice when John Thune slipped this bit of dishonesty past her:
MCEVERS: You talk about making Medicaid sustainable. But what the bill does is it cuts Medicaid pretty dramatically so that states will have to pay a lot of the money or cut services if they can. And this is happening as baby boomers are retiring. Many of them will depend on Medicaid for nursing-home care, long-term care. How will they get the coverage they need?McEvers neither pointed out that the inflation rate the bill is tied to is general inflation, not medical inflation, so the Senate bill represents a year-over-year funding cut in real dollars.
THUNE: Well, Medicaid in this plan continues to grow year over year at the rate of inflation. And, yes, there are more people who are, you know, reaching retirement age, which obviously puts more of a burden on our, you know, nursing homes and assisted living facilities. But we also have seen firsthand what states have done in coming up with innovative ideas that have saved a lot of money. There are lots of examples around the country where they work and partner with insurance providers and also health care providers to come up with a way of managing care so that you bring down costs.
And when Thune claimed that there are "lots of examples" of saving money (other than, of course, taking away health insurance), McEvers didn't say "name one."
(Again, it's astonishing to me that Marketplace is allowing itself to be more candid about this dog's breakfast of a bill than NPR.)
Feh.
posted by Gelatin at 5:03 AM on June 23, 2017 [28 favorites]
Hi, just catching up, great thread everybody. Please pardon the capslock, it's on "memeify" setting
DONALD TRUMP'S WAR ON THE SICK AND THE POOR
okay it's a little stark, but stark times, right? Also directing it to Trump instead of Congress/AHCA serves several purpoii, and plus additionally also mostly it rhymes. Which, unless movies and TV have lied to me, is the hallmark of truism.
Also my fu-gle shows the .com is available and only one tweet with that wording, so the ground is ready.
posted by petebest at 5:06 AM on June 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
DONALD TRUMP'S WAR ON THE SICK AND THE POOR
okay it's a little stark, but stark times, right? Also directing it to Trump instead of Congress/AHCA serves several purpoii, and plus additionally also mostly it rhymes. Which, unless movies and TV have lied to me, is the hallmark of truism.
Also my fu-gle shows the .com is available and only one tweet with that wording, so the ground is ready.
posted by petebest at 5:06 AM on June 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
The GOP bill is obviously the important thing of the day and we must not take our eyes off that, but Trump on Fox & Friends this morning about Comey is impressive even for him in its word saladness:
“I didn’t tape him, you never know what’s happening, when you see what the Obama Administration, and perhaps longer than that, was doing, all of this unmasking and surveillance and you read all about it and I’ve been reading about it the last couple of months, about the seriousness of the and the horrible situation with surveillance all over the place. You been hearing the word unmasking, a word you’ve probably never heard before, so you never know what’s out there and I didn’t tape and I don’t have any tape and I didn’t tape.
“But when (Comey) found out that there maybe are tapes out there, whether it’s governmental tapes or who knows, I think his story may have changed and you’ll have to look into that because then he’ll have to tell what happened at the events. And my story didn’t change, my story was always the straight story, my story was always the truth, but you’ll have to determine for yourself whether or not his story changed. But I did not tape.”
[Ainsley] Earhardt then gushed, “It was a smart way to make sure he stayed honest in those hearings.”
“Well,” said Trump, knowing an opportunity when he sees one, “it wasn’t very stupid, I can tell you that. He did admit that what I said was right and, if you look further back before he heard about that, maybe he wasn’t admitting that.”
posted by bluecore at 5:13 AM on June 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
“I didn’t tape him, you never know what’s happening, when you see what the Obama Administration, and perhaps longer than that, was doing, all of this unmasking and surveillance and you read all about it and I’ve been reading about it the last couple of months, about the seriousness of the and the horrible situation with surveillance all over the place. You been hearing the word unmasking, a word you’ve probably never heard before, so you never know what’s out there and I didn’t tape and I don’t have any tape and I didn’t tape.
“But when (Comey) found out that there maybe are tapes out there, whether it’s governmental tapes or who knows, I think his story may have changed and you’ll have to look into that because then he’ll have to tell what happened at the events. And my story didn’t change, my story was always the straight story, my story was always the truth, but you’ll have to determine for yourself whether or not his story changed. But I did not tape.”
[Ainsley] Earhardt then gushed, “It was a smart way to make sure he stayed honest in those hearings.”
“Well,” said Trump, knowing an opportunity when he sees one, “it wasn’t very stupid, I can tell you that. He did admit that what I said was right and, if you look further back before he heard about that, maybe he wasn’t admitting that.”
posted by bluecore at 5:13 AM on June 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
Christ. W tripped over his words because he was dumb, but at least we could figure out what he meant. This is just nonsensical.
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:18 AM on June 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:18 AM on June 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
The unhinged twittering about leaky best buds Co-mueller continues, while the American health care zombie makes page four at best.
I guess to be fair the twitter rants are no longer making front page news either . . .
posted by aspersioncast at 5:21 AM on June 23, 2017
I guess to be fair the twitter rants are no longer making front page news either . . .
posted by aspersioncast at 5:21 AM on June 23, 2017
The Ongoing Legal Battle Over the “Black Bloc” Inauguration Day Protest (New Yorker, Colin Moynihan)
“When this sort of thing happens on Inauguration Day, it raises a special level of concern,” Michelman said. “People in the future will start thinking, Well do I want to go to this demonstration, or is there a chance somebody’s going to break a window and I’m going to end up getting charged with multiple felonies that could put me away for more than ten years?”posted by corb at 5:25 AM on June 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
And now, a brief respite from the world-writ-large in which our very own Rolling Stone, Sir Keith Richards, (not a Sir) from a September Billboard article, offers his take on Il Toupée:
A conversation with Richards goes a lot of places in a short time. There is virtually nothing he won’t offer an opinion on. Such as:
Donald Trump: "I do find him refreshing. He’s cut through a lot of crap, and eventually ... well, can you imagine President Trump? The worst nightmare. But we can’t say that. Because it could happen. This is one of the wonders of this country. Who would’ve thought Ronald Reagan could be president?"
That would be September 2015, more specifically. I was actually looking for something about Trump's baffling use of "You Can't Always Get What You Want", expecting gruel from Thatcherite Jagger, but found this of Keef Keefing it up and it was a nice change for a few minutes.
The views expressed by Keef are his own and do not reflect the positions of this comment. Specifically with regard to The Dead, Grateful.
posted by petebest at 5:28 AM on June 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
A conversation with Richards goes a lot of places in a short time. There is virtually nothing he won’t offer an opinion on. Such as:
Donald Trump: "I do find him refreshing. He’s cut through a lot of crap, and eventually ... well, can you imagine President Trump? The worst nightmare. But we can’t say that. Because it could happen. This is one of the wonders of this country. Who would’ve thought Ronald Reagan could be president?"
That would be September 2015, more specifically. I was actually looking for something about Trump's baffling use of "You Can't Always Get What You Want", expecting gruel from Thatcherite Jagger, but found this of Keef Keefing it up and it was a nice change for a few minutes.
The views expressed by Keef are his own and do not reflect the positions of this comment. Specifically with regard to The Dead, Grateful.
posted by petebest at 5:28 AM on June 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
What are the chances that McConnell drove the health care bill to be so reprehensible that other conservatives and the Democratic party kill it on their own, absolving him of blame from the White House?
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:26 AM on June 23, 2017
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:26 AM on June 23, 2017
What are the chances that McConnell drove the health care bill to be so reprehensible that other conservatives and the Democratic party kill it on their own, absolving him of blame from the White House?
I think he just *IS* that reprehensible.
posted by Twain Device at 6:29 AM on June 23, 2017 [21 favorites]
I think he just *IS* that reprehensible.
posted by Twain Device at 6:29 AM on June 23, 2017 [21 favorites]
Oop spoke before I saw a physical copy of the Post; I didn't realize how tailored the online edition is.
posted by aspersioncast at 6:34 AM on June 23, 2017
posted by aspersioncast at 6:34 AM on June 23, 2017
The fucker is going to pass though.
posted by Artw at 6:36 AM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 6:36 AM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Earhardt then gushed, “It was a smart way to make sure he stayed honest in those hearings.”
Right, of course, because it's completely rational to imagine the director of the FBI as oblivious to anything so brilliant and ingenious as a really powerful person playing power games by throwing up red herrings and using the digital, in a town so utterly devoid of zillions of people doing stuff like that every second of their working lives. Bet they didn't teach "Shit-hot curveballs from wily reality show stars" at Chicago Law, huh, Mister Top G-Man?
posted by Rykey at 6:37 AM on June 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
Right, of course, because it's completely rational to imagine the director of the FBI as oblivious to anything so brilliant and ingenious as a really powerful person playing power games by throwing up red herrings and using the digital, in a town so utterly devoid of zillions of people doing stuff like that every second of their working lives. Bet they didn't teach "Shit-hot curveballs from wily reality show stars" at Chicago Law, huh, Mister Top G-Man?
posted by Rykey at 6:37 AM on June 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
Elegant shade: HUD Pick Took a Different Path From Her Predecessors (NYTimes/ YAMICHE ALCINDOR)
posted by mumimor at 6:38 AM on June 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by mumimor at 6:38 AM on June 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
If you think we're at peak reprehensible for the Senate, oh my sweet summer child, Ted Cruz has such delights to show you before he will vote Aye
posted by delfin at 6:43 AM on June 23, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by delfin at 6:43 AM on June 23, 2017 [13 favorites]
The more I think about the chances of this terrible bill passing, I realize we would also have to endure a gleeful Trump at the signing desk going on about how "It's a great bill, we did a great thing, it's going to be great, I'm Mr. Wonderful" and all the other gloating and camera-mugging crap as he signs legislation that will kill so many of us.
posted by Servo5678 at 7:00 AM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Servo5678 at 7:00 AM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
The more I think about the chances of this terrible bill passing, I realize we would also have to endure a gleeful Trump at the signing desk going on about how "It's a great bill, we did a great thing, it's going to be great, I'm Mr. Wonderful" and all the other gloating and camera-mugging crap as he signs legislation that will kill so many of us.
While vile in the short term, that might actually help us kick these fuckers out in 2018. Let them say on camera how proud they are of the bill. Let them smile like smug, happy assholes.
And then we cut all those photo ops into one ad: BLAME THE GOP.
posted by lydhre at 7:04 AM on June 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
While vile in the short term, that might actually help us kick these fuckers out in 2018. Let them say on camera how proud they are of the bill. Let them smile like smug, happy assholes.
And then we cut all those photo ops into one ad: BLAME THE GOP.
posted by lydhre at 7:04 AM on June 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
The more I think about the chances of this terrible bill passing, I realize we would also have to endure a gleeful Trump at the signing desk going on about how "It's a great bill, we did a great thing, it's going to be great, I'm Mr. Wonderful" and all the other gloating and camera-mugging crap as he signs legislation that will kill so many of us.
And as the cherry on top, a couple weeks later he moans about how "mean" it is, never having read any of it.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:06 AM on June 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
And as the cherry on top, a couple weeks later he moans about how "mean" it is, never having read any of it.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:06 AM on June 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94: Why don't they just stamp NOT REPORTABLE on Donald's forehead and be done with it
Pay no attention to the man behind the podium!
Or on Twitter!
Unless he really means it, then those words stand for themselves.
Until they don't.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:13 AM on June 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
Pay no attention to the man behind the podium!
Or on Twitter!
Unless he really means it, then those words stand for themselves.
Until they don't.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:13 AM on June 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
Here's what really astonishes me about the Republican healthcare bill: analysts on both sides have repeatedly pointed out that it provides a massive tax cut for the richest Americans—on the backs of the neediest—and the #FuckingRepublicans don't even bother trying to justify it with their usual Invisible-Hand-Job-Creators-Magic-Of-The-Market bullshit.
They're not even pretending. They don't seem to care about re-election, either, presumably because once they've fulfilled their donors wishes, they can retire to a cushy job with Fox News or a right-wing think tank.
So much for "compassionate conservatism."
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:14 AM on June 23, 2017 [30 favorites]
They're not even pretending. They don't seem to care about re-election, either, presumably because once they've fulfilled their donors wishes, they can retire to a cushy job with Fox News or a right-wing think tank.
So much for "compassionate conservatism."
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:14 AM on June 23, 2017 [30 favorites]
Jennifer Rubin, WaPo: Cheer up, Democrats!
I cannot comprehend anything less productive for Democrats than lashing out at their longtime leader, Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), as if she is to blame for not winning a deep-red congressional seat in a special election. (Do they have any evidence for such a connection? Do they not think any replacement would be just as demonized by the GOP?) Frankly, if Republicans did this, Democrats would go after them for misogyny. Democrats were given a gift — if they care to accept it — on Thursday when Republicans helped them turn the page to health care.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:17 AM on June 23, 2017 [54 favorites]
Democrats can have a field day pointing to Republicans’ proposed cuts to health care for the poor and tax breaks to the richest Americans. They can remind voters that millions who earned coverage when Democrats were in charge now will lose it. In search of a “message,” they can come back to the tried and true: Republicans are for the rich, we’re for the working and middle class.
So much for "compassionate conservatism."
Yeah but that's like "as light as a runaway freight train"; of course it was always bullshit. Eaten whole and happily by the lever-pullers of the Party of Trump.
Why can't Democrats be a useful kind of credulous?
posted by petebest at 7:19 AM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yeah but that's like "as light as a runaway freight train"; of course it was always bullshit. Eaten whole and happily by the lever-pullers of the Party of Trump.
Why can't Democrats be a useful kind of credulous?
posted by petebest at 7:19 AM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
zachlipton: Meanwhile, the House is having a crackdown on sleeveless dresses, which pretty much tells you where we are as a country right now.
My imaginary headline: HORNY TEENAGE-MINDED BOYS IN HOUSE CAN'T CONTROL ERECTIONS WHEN THEY SEE BARE SHOULDERS
Once those shoulders are covered up, I bet ankles are next.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:19 AM on June 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
My imaginary headline: HORNY TEENAGE-MINDED BOYS IN HOUSE CAN'T CONTROL ERECTIONS WHEN THEY SEE BARE SHOULDERS
Once those shoulders are covered up, I bet ankles are next.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:19 AM on June 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
It's still a very weird and discomfiting feeling to agree repeatedly with Jennifer Rubin.
posted by chris24 at 7:21 AM on June 23, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 7:21 AM on June 23, 2017 [18 favorites]
Foreign Policy: Not Dazed, but Definitely Confused: Allies Struggle to Divine U.S. Policy: "On trade, climate, foreign aid, and more, America’s allies wonder what U.S. policy is — and who, if anyone, can take America’s place."
It's very clear that Trump has no policies, that he doesn't want any policies. On anything. Policies are things that guide you on making decisions on your own without checking with the boss. Trump wants all decisions to flow through him, such is the nature of narcissism. Policies also proscribe actions you shouldn't take. And again, Trump wants the freedom to do whatever the hell he wants in any situation & absolutely doesn't want to be told he can't do something. He wants everyone to check with him before making any decisions & he never wants to be told he can't do something. That's his policy.
posted by scalefree at 7:27 AM on June 23, 2017 [19 favorites]
It's very clear that Trump has no policies, that he doesn't want any policies. On anything. Policies are things that guide you on making decisions on your own without checking with the boss. Trump wants all decisions to flow through him, such is the nature of narcissism. Policies also proscribe actions you shouldn't take. And again, Trump wants the freedom to do whatever the hell he wants in any situation & absolutely doesn't want to be told he can't do something. He wants everyone to check with him before making any decisions & he never wants to be told he can't do something. That's his policy.
posted by scalefree at 7:27 AM on June 23, 2017 [19 favorites]
The Washington Post has a big new investigative report this morning: Obama's secret struggle to punish Russia for Putin's election assault.
There is a lot there, but the biggest new thing that jumped out to me is a much more confident reporting of Putin's personal involvement in the election hacking/disruption:
posted by pjenks at 7:35 AM on June 23, 2017 [58 favorites]
There is a lot there, but the biggest new thing that jumped out to me is a much more confident reporting of Putin's personal involvement in the election hacking/disruption:
When the Russian interference was detailed publicly in December and January, there was basically no evidence provided of the Kremlin's fingerprints (though intelligence officials spoke confidently that the classified version contained this evidence). It appears that the Washington Post has now seen that evidence.
The intelligence[, delivered personally to Obama by the CIA in August 2016,] captured Putin’s specific instructions on the operation’s audacious objectives — defeat or at least damage the Democratic nominee, Hillary Clinton, and help elect her opponent, Donald Trump.
...
The intelligence on Putin was extraordinary on multiple levels, including as a feat of espionage.
For spy agencies, gaining insights into the intentions of foreign leaders is among the highest priorities. But Putin is a remarkably elusive target. A former KGB officer, he takes extreme precautions to guard against surveillance, rarely communicating by phone or computer, always running sensitive state business from deep within the confines of the Kremlin.
The Washington Post is withholding some details of the intelligence at the request of the U.S. government.
posted by pjenks at 7:35 AM on June 23, 2017 [58 favorites]
I was just going to second/third that WaPo article. There's also a corresponding podcast with Greg Miller. Still working my way through both.
posted by rp at 7:40 AM on June 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by rp at 7:40 AM on June 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
The hospital system that I work for sent us a copy of a letter to congress from our management opposing the bill. I can't link to it because it's only internal but here's what the signer, our chief medical officer, said in the Washington Post yesterday:
Steve Shapiro, chief medical and scientific officer of the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center said the bill would take a toll on hospitals, increasing the amount of “bad debt” — care they must give free — because patients lack insurance or can't pay their bills. He said the toll would fall especially hard on rural hospitals, many of which are already struggling financially and are fighting an opioid epidemic.posted by octothorpe at 7:40 AM on June 23, 2017 [20 favorites]
“In a way, this is moving us back to the bad old days when people didn’t have preventive care, coordinated care, were too sick and used the emergency department,” Shapiro said.
oops, sorry, rainydayfilms... I didn't see your earlier mention of the WaPost article
posted by pjenks at 7:43 AM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by pjenks at 7:43 AM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Benjamin Wittes is ticking again:
#NotesFromUnderTrump, Day 154: In honor both of the President's "WITCH HUNT" tweet and of the expected magnitude of the detonation...posted by Roommate at 7:45 AM on June 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
TICK TICK TICK TICK TICK TICK
Despite Claims To Contrary, Trump Has Signed No Major Laws 5 Months In (NPR, June 23, 2017)
Again, without Obama, Trump would have less to crow about (sorry, crows). Exclude those Obama-related laws, and he's down 39%, or a mere 25 laws signed, and most of them are useless.
But laws aren't the only way to change things. Trump signed 90 executive actions in his first 100 days, and WIkipedia has the full, current list, where I remember that even Trump's signature doesn't invoke confidence in the man.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:45 AM on June 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
President Trump is set to sign a bill today that will make it easier for the secretary of veterans affairs to fire and discipline employees. The Department of Veterans Affairs Accountability and Whistleblower Protection Act of 2017 will mark Trump's 40th law signed.Emphasis mine.
Sounds like a lot.
And in recent days, Trump has boasted about all the legislation he's signed.
...
Measuring laws passed by counting rather than by significance is pretty meaningless. More on that in a bit. But by way of recent historical comparison, Presidents Jimmy Carter (52), George H.W. Bush (41) and Clinton (41) had all signed more bills into law than President Trump by this point in their presidencies.
So, what has Trump accomplished with Congress so far? Nothing that political scientists would categorize as major pieces of legislation. We looked at this question as President Trump hit his 100 days mark. This story contains more detail on legislation he signed in the early part of his presidency.
Types Of Laws That Trump Has Signed
Repealing Obama-era rules and regulations: 15
Modifying existing programs: 6
Encouraging an agency to try something new: 5
Naming something, siting a memorial or encouraging flag flying: 5
Personnel-related: 5
Extending Obama-era policy: 2
Omnibus appropriations bill: 1
As he said, President Trump has signed a record number of resolutions reversing Obama-era regulations, 15 in total. It was only used once before, by George W Bush. These resolutions were passed under the Congressional Review Act and only required a simple majority for passage in the Senate.
That made it much easier to get them through than regular legislation. The Congressional Review Act was passed in 1996 and allows Congress to reverse rules within 60 legislative days of their submission. That period is now over, so you won't see more laws like these any time soon.
Two of the laws he's signed are budget related. One simply extended federal spending for a week while congress worked out its differences on a longer term funding bill. The other was possibly the most significant legislation signed by President Trump so far. It kept the government funded and set spending levels through the end of September.
But these sorts of spending bills are also the most basic functions of Congress and the president, literally keeping the lights on.
Again, without Obama, Trump would have less to crow about (sorry, crows). Exclude those Obama-related laws, and he's down 39%, or a mere 25 laws signed, and most of them are useless.
But laws aren't the only way to change things. Trump signed 90 executive actions in his first 100 days, and WIkipedia has the full, current list, where I remember that even Trump's signature doesn't invoke confidence in the man.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:45 AM on June 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
I know there are way more important things happening here but, does he really get a pass for this?
"You been hearing the word unmasking, a word you’ve probably never heard before..."
He really thinks everyone is less educated than he is. Even when it comes to 3rd-grade vocabulary.
posted by greermahoney at 7:47 AM on June 23, 2017 [32 favorites]
"You been hearing the word unmasking, a word you’ve probably never heard before..."
He really thinks everyone is less educated than he is. Even when it comes to 3rd-grade vocabulary.
posted by greermahoney at 7:47 AM on June 23, 2017 [32 favorites]
More from NPR: Trump Sued For Allegedly Violating Presidential Records Act (June 22, 2017)
posted by filthy light thief at 7:48 AM on June 23, 2017 [21 favorites]
Two government watchdog groups, Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington and the National Security Archive, filed a lawsuit Thursday against President Trump and the Executive Office of the President.Using apps that auto-delete messages is a lot easier than writing "burn after reading" on your memos.
The complaint alleges that White House staffers' widely reported use of encrypted messaging apps, such as Signal and Confide, for internal communication violates the Presidential Records Act.
In the lawsuit, the groups claim the Trump administration has "failed to adopt adequate policies and guidelines to maintain and preserve presidential records."
Encrypted messaging apps automatically delete messages, which would prevent those communications from being archived.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:48 AM on June 23, 2017 [21 favorites]
He wants everyone to check with him before making any decisions & he never wants to be told he can't do something. That's his policy.
Yes. Autocracy is Trump's one and only policy. His most angry moments are when he runs up against a barrier to that Policy, whether they be public opinion, the courts, lawmakers in Congress, and particularly quasi-independent parts of the executive such as the DOJ or FBI.
The President thinks the governmentought to be is his fiefdom, and genuinely (if that word can be used of him without instantly bursting into flames) does not understand why it isn't.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:48 AM on June 23, 2017 [20 favorites]
Yes. Autocracy is Trump's one and only policy. His most angry moments are when he runs up against a barrier to that Policy, whether they be public opinion, the courts, lawmakers in Congress, and particularly quasi-independent parts of the executive such as the DOJ or FBI.
The President thinks the government
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:48 AM on June 23, 2017 [20 favorites]
The President thinks the government ought to be is his fiefdom, and genuinely (if that word can be used of him without instantly bursting into flames) does not understand why it isn't.
And the craven, venal, hateful shitstain representatives of his party are letting him do it, as long as the rich get tax cuts, the poors lose their health care, and the cops can shoot brown people with impunity.
posted by aspersioncast at 7:55 AM on June 23, 2017 [23 favorites]
And the craven, venal, hateful shitstain representatives of his party are letting him do it, as long as the rich get tax cuts, the poors lose their health care, and the cops can shoot brown people with impunity.
posted by aspersioncast at 7:55 AM on June 23, 2017 [23 favorites]
Interesting idea for public education about the health care bill....Is there any kind of web site that would let someone type in some basic demographic info about themselves (age, income, location, current health plan) and let them see what would change under Trumpcare?
That sort of black-and-white personalized info may be what gets people's attention. All they've been hearing thus far is talking heads on the news and in congress talking about "Medicaid" and "pre-existing conditions" and most may not really get that "wait, some of that applies to me". But something that underscores that "wait, this is something that would apply to me" may turn some opinions.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:57 AM on June 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
That sort of black-and-white personalized info may be what gets people's attention. All they've been hearing thus far is talking heads on the news and in congress talking about "Medicaid" and "pre-existing conditions" and most may not really get that "wait, some of that applies to me". But something that underscores that "wait, this is something that would apply to me" may turn some opinions.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:57 AM on June 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
If we can't get immigrants to do the work, how about non-violent offenders? Maine Gov. LePage conditionally commuted the state prison sentences of 17 male inmates, and is soon expected to commute the sentences of some female inmates as well, to help the struggling tourism industry. (At the same time, his administration is reviewing whether he is legally allowed to commute the sentences of county inmates.) ~ Jesse Bigood, NYT, June 1, 2017 (more information than the NPR piece that aired yesterday)
Most in Maine agree on the challenging contours of the labor market: The statewide unemployment rate is 3 percent, and innkeepers and restaurateurs have struggled to find workers for the summer tourist season. A drop in the number of available H-2B visas here, for seasonal nonagricultural workers, has not helped.posted by filthy light thief at 8:03 AM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
...
Maine has the oldest population in the nation, largely because of a drop in the birthrate during the 1990s that has not been offset by migration into the state. That has left Maine with a paucity of workers. That shortage is compounded when the state adds around 38,000 seasonal jobs during the summer.
...
Joseph Fitzpatrick, the commissioner of the state’s Department of Corrections, said the governor had commuted only prisoners convicted of nonviolent offenses, and avoided commuting the sentences of sex offenders, drug traffickers and people who had been convicted of domestic abuse.
Other questions re: the Qatar crisis
1) How is this new List Of Demands different to the List Of Demands from the other week? Are we just putting that one down the ever-expanding memory hole?
2) Why is our Secretary of State implicitly saying it is okay to unprovokedly close a country's only land border, deny it access to airspace, endanger the immediate food security of its citizens, holding all these things for ransom until demands are met?
I don't know enough about the politics of the Arab Gulf states to say whether Qatar should be doing more to oppose terrorism along the lines that the Saudis are demanding, but it seems to me that at least the way this is being done would be considered an act of war if it weren't for the fact that Qatar has no real ability to defend itself, and of course (as was just noted by cjelli), there's a very real possibility that President Trump indicated, whether he meant to or not, that the United States would look the other way as one group of nations engaged in what looks to me very much like dangerous bullying tactics against a smaller neighbor.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:09 AM on June 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
1) How is this new List Of Demands different to the List Of Demands from the other week? Are we just putting that one down the ever-expanding memory hole?
2) Why is our Secretary of State implicitly saying it is okay to unprovokedly close a country's only land border, deny it access to airspace, endanger the immediate food security of its citizens, holding all these things for ransom until demands are met?
I don't know enough about the politics of the Arab Gulf states to say whether Qatar should be doing more to oppose terrorism along the lines that the Saudis are demanding, but it seems to me that at least the way this is being done would be considered an act of war if it weren't for the fact that Qatar has no real ability to defend itself, and of course (as was just noted by cjelli), there's a very real possibility that President Trump indicated, whether he meant to or not, that the United States would look the other way as one group of nations engaged in what looks to me very much like dangerous bullying tactics against a smaller neighbor.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:09 AM on June 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
The statewide unemployment rate is 3 percent, and innkeepers and restaurateurs have struggled to find workers for the summer tourist season.
The other side of the free market coin is that you need to be competitive in order to attract labor. Offer more money and make the job less shitty. I don't see why we need to contract out prison labor to help private business stay afloat. This is how the market is supposed to work: the ones who can't compete, fail.
posted by Autumnheart at 8:10 AM on June 23, 2017 [34 favorites]
The other side of the free market coin is that you need to be competitive in order to attract labor. Offer more money and make the job less shitty. I don't see why we need to contract out prison labor to help private business stay afloat. This is how the market is supposed to work: the ones who can't compete, fail.
posted by Autumnheart at 8:10 AM on June 23, 2017 [34 favorites]
Elsewhere in the world: Venezuelan On Daily Life Amid Protests: 'We Need To Be Here To Fight' (NPR, June 22, 2017)
Venezuela is in its third month of protests against the government of Nicolás Maduro. It's also been suffering from shortages in food, medical supplies and basic goods like toilet paper and shampoo. NPR's Audie Cornish talks to one Venezuelan in Caracas about daily life [as a protester] in the country.
I don't mean to make light of anyone's situation in the United States, but holy shit -- Venezuela sounds like a nightmare now, and I know it's not the only country in turmoil now. When you get food by word of mouth because there are no staples available in shops, medicine to treat wounds comes from family and friends who travel into the country, and your hope is that the police and military people who face off daily against the protesters might turn around and say "I'm not protecting the government any more," you're in a terrible situation.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:10 AM on June 23, 2017 [21 favorites]
Venezuela is in its third month of protests against the government of Nicolás Maduro. It's also been suffering from shortages in food, medical supplies and basic goods like toilet paper and shampoo. NPR's Audie Cornish talks to one Venezuelan in Caracas about daily life [as a protester] in the country.
I don't mean to make light of anyone's situation in the United States, but holy shit -- Venezuela sounds like a nightmare now, and I know it's not the only country in turmoil now. When you get food by word of mouth because there are no staples available in shops, medicine to treat wounds comes from family and friends who travel into the country, and your hope is that the police and military people who face off daily against the protesters might turn around and say "I'm not protecting the government any more," you're in a terrible situation.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:10 AM on June 23, 2017 [21 favorites]
The other side of the free market coin is that you need to be competitive in order to attract labor.
It's amazing how rarely news stories about "such-and-such an industry has trouble finding enough workers" even mentions whether the companies are offering enough money, as if it's assumed that in these corporatist times, cutting profits even a little bit to attract workers is simply verboten.
posted by Gelatin at 8:16 AM on June 23, 2017 [51 favorites]
It's amazing how rarely news stories about "such-and-such an industry has trouble finding enough workers" even mentions whether the companies are offering enough money, as if it's assumed that in these corporatist times, cutting profits even a little bit to attract workers is simply verboten.
posted by Gelatin at 8:16 AM on June 23, 2017 [51 favorites]
Qatari Twitter is not impressed with your demands
in other news, the Arab Street has now fully embraced the strategy of trolling by .gif
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:19 AM on June 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
in other news, the Arab Street has now fully embraced the strategy of trolling by .gif
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:19 AM on June 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
Obama also approved a previously undisclosed covert measure that authorized planting cyber weapons in Russia’s infrastructure, the digital equivalent of bombs that could be detonated if the United States found itself in an escalating exchange with Moscow. The project, which Obama approved in a covert-action finding, was still in its planning stages when Obama left office. It would be up to President Trump to decide whether to use the capability.
What are the odds Trump has dismantled this program by now? 1000%?
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:20 AM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
What are the odds Trump has dismantled this program by now? 1000%?
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:20 AM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
But they have no problem painting it as our moral duty as citizens to assume as many of the costs of overhead as possible (see also: horrible health care bill).
On a larger scale, the investor class is going to be mightily surprised in another 10-15 years when their health care bill essentially topples the economy because they suck at math. I'm sure they'll trot out a bunch of whiny headlines about "no qualified workers" then too.
posted by Autumnheart at 8:23 AM on June 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
On a larger scale, the investor class is going to be mightily surprised in another 10-15 years when their health care bill essentially topples the economy because they suck at math. I'm sure they'll trot out a bunch of whiny headlines about "no qualified workers" then too.
posted by Autumnheart at 8:23 AM on June 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
What are the odds Trump has dismantled this program by now? 1000%?
If they don't run on steam, the President assumes they won't work anyway.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:23 AM on June 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
If they don't run on steam, the President assumes they won't work anyway.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:23 AM on June 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
I just realized that the Republican Party is operating on the same principles of, "Let's just do it and be legends, man" know-nothing bravado as Fyre Festival writ large. Yeah, to make things happen, you actually need, like, money and infrastructure, because people don't work for free and things don't build themselves.
posted by Autumnheart at 8:26 AM on June 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Autumnheart at 8:26 AM on June 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
I'm still morbidly curious what, if anything, Trump discussed while he was in Saudi Arabia, and what, if anything, he did to contribute to this. I don't think he caused this -- America isn't the sole mover of events, and it would myopic to suggest it was -- but I don't think he helped.
I think what happened is that they spent enough time with him to conclude that it's not a complicated act and that he really is that stupid and easily led to the position of whoever's flattered him most recently. It's entirely possible he made some assurances in addition to that, but I think a lot of it was getting the sense of what his reaction would be, and they found out that it would be pretty much what it was.
I don't know enough about the politics of the Arab Gulf states to say whether Qatar should be doing more to oppose terrorism along the lines that the Saudis are demanding, but it seems to me that at least the way this is being done would be considered an act of war if it weren't for the fact that Qatar has no real ability to defend itself
Qatar has almost certainly been involved in the funding of al-Qaeda and ISIS groups, if not directly than through encouraging fundraising to happen. If almost any country in the world other than Saudi Arabia were making this accusation, it would deserve to be taken seriously. But it turns out that what Saudi Arabia objects to isn't funding terrorist groups so much as funding the wrong terrorist groups, where "wrong" has more to do with perceived danger to the Saudi royal family than any measure of viciousness, deadliness, or cruelty.
I have also heard that while Qatar's military is much smaller than the Saudi military, there's a reasonable chance that they would put up a strong fight. The Saudi military is largely regarded as a paper tiger, and the Qatar military is pretty large and well-equipped for a country of its size, and presumably well set up to defend what's a pretty small piece of territory with only one significant access point. The Saudis would almost certainly eventually prevail, but it would also be an extended bloodbath and not a quick invasion. Plus, the Turkish government has already sent a few thousand troops to Qatar, and if Turkey is going to intervene on Qatar's behalf, it's definitely not going to be a cakewalk for the Saudis.
posted by Copronymus at 8:30 AM on June 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
I think what happened is that they spent enough time with him to conclude that it's not a complicated act and that he really is that stupid and easily led to the position of whoever's flattered him most recently. It's entirely possible he made some assurances in addition to that, but I think a lot of it was getting the sense of what his reaction would be, and they found out that it would be pretty much what it was.
I don't know enough about the politics of the Arab Gulf states to say whether Qatar should be doing more to oppose terrorism along the lines that the Saudis are demanding, but it seems to me that at least the way this is being done would be considered an act of war if it weren't for the fact that Qatar has no real ability to defend itself
Qatar has almost certainly been involved in the funding of al-Qaeda and ISIS groups, if not directly than through encouraging fundraising to happen. If almost any country in the world other than Saudi Arabia were making this accusation, it would deserve to be taken seriously. But it turns out that what Saudi Arabia objects to isn't funding terrorist groups so much as funding the wrong terrorist groups, where "wrong" has more to do with perceived danger to the Saudi royal family than any measure of viciousness, deadliness, or cruelty.
I have also heard that while Qatar's military is much smaller than the Saudi military, there's a reasonable chance that they would put up a strong fight. The Saudi military is largely regarded as a paper tiger, and the Qatar military is pretty large and well-equipped for a country of its size, and presumably well set up to defend what's a pretty small piece of territory with only one significant access point. The Saudis would almost certainly eventually prevail, but it would also be an extended bloodbath and not a quick invasion. Plus, the Turkish government has already sent a few thousand troops to Qatar, and if Turkey is going to intervene on Qatar's behalf, it's definitely not going to be a cakewalk for the Saudis.
posted by Copronymus at 8:30 AM on June 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
That sort of black-and-white personalized info may be what gets people's attention. All they've been hearing thus far is talking heads on the news and in congress talking about "Medicaid" and "pre-existing conditions" and most may not really get that "wait, some of that applies to me". But something that underscores that "wait, this is something that would apply to me" may turn some opinions.
The vast majority of Trump supporters are largely unaffected by Trumpcare. They have above average incomes and get their health insurance through their employers. They don't see themselves as in danger of losing their health benefits. They do see themselves as paying taxes to give healthcare to poor people.
Something that is often overlooked is that the Obamacare exchanges only cover about 7% of the population. The Medicaid expansion only covers people living below the poverty line. Most people,over 80%, are not at direct risk by the repeal of Obamacare because they get insurance from employers or are retired and get Medicare. And for Trump supporters they just see Obamacare as welfare for the poor.
That is why appeals to healthcare fears is not very effective. Most people see the Obamacare argument is being about people other than themselves.
posted by JackFlash at 8:38 AM on June 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
The vast majority of Trump supporters are largely unaffected by Trumpcare. They have above average incomes and get their health insurance through their employers. They don't see themselves as in danger of losing their health benefits. They do see themselves as paying taxes to give healthcare to poor people.
Something that is often overlooked is that the Obamacare exchanges only cover about 7% of the population. The Medicaid expansion only covers people living below the poverty line. Most people,over 80%, are not at direct risk by the repeal of Obamacare because they get insurance from employers or are retired and get Medicare. And for Trump supporters they just see Obamacare as welfare for the poor.
That is why appeals to healthcare fears is not very effective. Most people see the Obamacare argument is being about people other than themselves.
posted by JackFlash at 8:38 AM on June 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
Vox has an explainer of how the Byrd rule works:
Dylan Scott/Vox : The obscure Senate rule that still could save Obamacare, explained
Dylan Scott/Vox : The obscure Senate rule that still could save Obamacare, explained
A bill being considered under reconciliation has to check every box of the six-part Byrd Rule. If it fails any one of those tests, it must be stripped out.posted by ZeusHumms at 8:44 AM on June 23, 2017 [16 favorites]Most of the time, if part of a bill fails that six-part test, that provision is removed and the rest of the legislation is allowed to advance.
- The provision must change federal spending or revenue.
- If the bill does not meet the budget resolution’s instructions to reduce the federal deficit, any provision that results in either increased spending or decreased revenue is removed until it does meet those targets.
- The provision must only affect policies that fall under the jurisdiction of the specific committees that were instructed in the budget resolution.
- The provision’s effect on spending or revenues must be more than incidental to its policy impact.
- The provision cannot increase the federal deficit at some point in the future, beyond the typical 10-year “budget window” that is used to evaluate legislation.
- The provision cannot change Social Security.
But some violations can be considered “fatal” — meaning that the entire bill would need 60 votes to pass. Those could include any provisions that violate No. 3, on the issue of jurisdiction, I’m told. Congress is said to have controversially exempted itself from part of the health care bill because the bill would otherwise have been risk of such a fatal Byrd Rule violation. Member benefits, like their health insurance, fall under a different committee’s jurisdiction, one that wasn’t included in the budget resolution. Without the exemption, the bill could have lost its 50-vote privileges in the Senate.
There's churn though, JackFlash. I agree with your point generally, but what people have got to understand* is that while they may be covered by employer-based insurance for most of their working lives, if they're laid off or lose their job and have either expensive maintenance medications/medical care or are injured while not employed, they're fucked unless they elected to pay through the nose for COBRA.
Not to mention that self-employed people actually have the ability to get reasonably transparent and reasonably priced insurance under the ACA.
Finally, I would hope** that people would consider their adult children, less well-off relatives and such who may rely on ACA coverage through the Marketplace or expanded Medicaid. 7% is not a huge number, of course, but how many people know someone in that 7%? There's around that many LGBTQ people in the US, and pretty much everyone knows at least one of us --- because we came out.
People who are directly benefiting from ACA coverage need to come out to their conservative friends and relatives and explain what this means to them personally.
*spoiler: they won't
**this hope is probably vain
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:48 AM on June 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
Not to mention that self-employed people actually have the ability to get reasonably transparent and reasonably priced insurance under the ACA.
Finally, I would hope** that people would consider their adult children, less well-off relatives and such who may rely on ACA coverage through the Marketplace or expanded Medicaid. 7% is not a huge number, of course, but how many people know someone in that 7%? There's around that many LGBTQ people in the US, and pretty much everyone knows at least one of us --- because we came out.
People who are directly benefiting from ACA coverage need to come out to their conservative friends and relatives and explain what this means to them personally.
*spoiler: they won't
**this hope is probably vain
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:48 AM on June 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
That is why appeals to healthcare fears is not very effective. Most people see the Obamacare argument is being about people other than themselves.
Just offhand, the ACA provision that lets parents keep their children on their policies until they are 26 is popular. Also, the ACA created many improvements for insurance generally, including reducing or eliminating the copays for preventative care (which, again, the guy from Marketplace pointed out would cost more in the long one when the Republican plan eliminates them). The Republicans have been trying to sell their "repeal" as "...but keeping all the popular bits," but eliminating the mandate alone will wreck the cost curve, so people with insurance thru their work are indeed likely to be affected, even if they don't think so.
posted by Gelatin at 8:49 AM on June 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
Just offhand, the ACA provision that lets parents keep their children on their policies until they are 26 is popular. Also, the ACA created many improvements for insurance generally, including reducing or eliminating the copays for preventative care (which, again, the guy from Marketplace pointed out would cost more in the long one when the Republican plan eliminates them). The Republicans have been trying to sell their "repeal" as "...but keeping all the popular bits," but eliminating the mandate alone will wreck the cost curve, so people with insurance thru their work are indeed likely to be affected, even if they don't think so.
posted by Gelatin at 8:49 AM on June 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
"The vast majority of Trump supporters believe they are largely unaffected by Trumpcare."
I had to fix that for you. Everyone is affected by Trumpcare and Obama care, full stop. I have coverage through my employer so it doesn't directly affect me. How it will affect me is through continued rising healthcare costs that translate into ever higher premiums. Even if my employer is especially gracious and doesn't pass the entirety of those costs down to me, that's still money can't be used for raises, bonuses, stock buy-backs, hardware and software purchases, or simply hiring more people.
This affects everyone, I'm sure we all know that, but it should be front-and-center and clear as day to everyone.
posted by VTX at 8:49 AM on June 23, 2017 [66 favorites]
I had to fix that for you. Everyone is affected by Trumpcare and Obama care, full stop. I have coverage through my employer so it doesn't directly affect me. How it will affect me is through continued rising healthcare costs that translate into ever higher premiums. Even if my employer is especially gracious and doesn't pass the entirety of those costs down to me, that's still money can't be used for raises, bonuses, stock buy-backs, hardware and software purchases, or simply hiring more people.
This affects everyone, I'm sure we all know that, but it should be front-and-center and clear as day to everyone.
posted by VTX at 8:49 AM on June 23, 2017 [66 favorites]
When the Koch Brother funded Cato Institute comes out against the BCRA, you know it sucks.
Senate Health Care Bill: Worse Than Doing Nothing [podcast]
posted by chris24 at 8:52 AM on June 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
Senate Health Care Bill: Worse Than Doing Nothing [podcast]
posted by chris24 at 8:52 AM on June 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
Most people,over 80%, are not at direct risk by the repeal of Obamacare because they get insurance from employers or are retired and get Medicare.
Well, except for stuff like Essential Health Benefits, annual and lifetime caps, out-of-pocket spending limits, the overall bending down of the cost curve (the unbending of which means employers will pass rising insurance costs onto employees). (I haven't delved into the two repeal bills in enough detail to say how many of these features will be undone.) The most visible parts of the ACA were the exchanges and the Medicaid expansion -- but everyone benefited in real ways.
posted by notyou at 8:52 AM on June 23, 2017 [24 favorites]
Well, except for stuff like Essential Health Benefits, annual and lifetime caps, out-of-pocket spending limits, the overall bending down of the cost curve (the unbending of which means employers will pass rising insurance costs onto employees). (I haven't delved into the two repeal bills in enough detail to say how many of these features will be undone.) The most visible parts of the ACA were the exchanges and the Medicaid expansion -- but everyone benefited in real ways.
posted by notyou at 8:52 AM on June 23, 2017 [24 favorites]
The St. Louis Post-Dispatch is not messing around [front page]
posted by chris24 at 8:55 AM on June 23, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 8:55 AM on June 23, 2017 [29 favorites]
Trump voters are certainly going to figure it the fuck out when their jobs disappear, their parents are 80 and start getting sick all the time as elderly people do, and their insurance company says, "Too bad, so sad! Lifetime limit, pre-existing condition! Bye!"
posted by Autumnheart at 8:59 AM on June 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Autumnheart at 8:59 AM on June 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
Their plan is to be millionaires by that time (because big tax cuts) and be able to afford their own healthcare.
posted by yhbc at 9:02 AM on June 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by yhbc at 9:02 AM on June 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
Talking points for calling or faxing your Senators--cos we're all doing that, right? We need to stop #MurderousMitchsHealthcareNightmare*.
McConnell's bill has:
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:06 AM on June 23, 2017 [80 favorites]
McConnell's bill has:
- Been designed in total, stunningly undemocratic secrecy
- Had ZERO, unlike the ACA, public hearings, committee hearings, or public input in this process
- Had no meaningful input from the minority party because of Republican obstruction
- Overwhelming opposition from Americans across the political spectrum
- Deprive tens of millions of Americans of healthcare, resulting in tens to hundreds of thousands of premature deaths over the next decade alone
- Effectively kill Medicaid, by capping funding, and tying increased to the rate of general inflation, rather than medical inflation
- Crush rural healthcare systems, leaving many hard-working people in dire straits and without access to medical care
- Result in higher premiums for higher deductibles and less coverage
- Gut requirements for insurers to cover pre-existing conditions, so insurers will not have to cover mental health care, pregnancy related costs, or cancer treatments
- Steal healthcare from children
- Reinstate lifetime limits on coverage
- Have massive negative consequences on employer-provided healthcare plans, resulting in worse coverage for higher prices
- Will give massive tax cuts to the rich in exchange for the lives of the poor
- Tell stories how this bill will negatively affect you, your friends, and your family--focus especially on vulnerable members such as children, people with serious chronic illness, and our elders
- Promise that you will repeatedly characterize them as personally responsible for every single death that this travesty will cause
- Make it clear that a vote for this bill means you will donate and personally campaign against their reelection
- Promise that you will tell everyone you know that they are soaked in the blood of innocent Americans
- Tell ACA success stories of you, your family, and friends
- Thank them for fighting to protect the healthcare of millions of Americans
- Tell them that their opposition dramatically increases the likelihood you will donate and/or campaign for them
- Make it clear you expect them to go to the mat by refusing unanimous consent and doing everything they can to delay delay delay
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:06 AM on June 23, 2017 [80 favorites]
Well, except for stuff like Essential Health Benefits, annual and lifetime caps, out-of-pocket spending limits, the overall bending down of the cost curve (the unbending of which means employers will pass rising insurance costs onto employees).
Most people already had the equivalent of essential health benefits from their employer insurance. Less than 1% of people exceed lifetime spending caps. I would be surprised if more than a tiny percentage of people even know someone who exceeded lifetime spending caps, so its not something that most people fear. People with employer insurance have had coverage for pre-existing conditions through HIPPA and ERISA for decades.
I'm not saying that Obamacare doesn't benefit everyone. It does. But for the vast majority of people the benefits are abstract enough that it is a very tough argument to make. The fact that Obamacare has been struggling for 7 years to even break 50% approval is proof of that. Even Obama recognized that fact which is why his entire campaign in 2008 was based on people being able to keep their well-liked employer insurance.
posted by JackFlash at 9:08 AM on June 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Most people already had the equivalent of essential health benefits from their employer insurance. Less than 1% of people exceed lifetime spending caps. I would be surprised if more than a tiny percentage of people even know someone who exceeded lifetime spending caps, so its not something that most people fear. People with employer insurance have had coverage for pre-existing conditions through HIPPA and ERISA for decades.
I'm not saying that Obamacare doesn't benefit everyone. It does. But for the vast majority of people the benefits are abstract enough that it is a very tough argument to make. The fact that Obamacare has been struggling for 7 years to even break 50% approval is proof of that. Even Obama recognized that fact which is why his entire campaign in 2008 was based on people being able to keep their well-liked employer insurance.
posted by JackFlash at 9:08 AM on June 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Trump voters are certainly going to figure it the fuck out when their jobs disappear, their parents are 80 and start getting sick all the time as elderly people do, and their insurance company says, "Too bad, so sad! Lifetime limit, pre-existing condition! Bye!"
And who do you think Fox News (as their sole source of information) is going tell them who is to blame for this? Hint: They don't have an (R) after their name.
posted by splen at 9:13 AM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
And who do you think Fox News (as their sole source of information) is going tell them who is to blame for this? Hint: They don't have an (R) after their name.
posted by splen at 9:13 AM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Can't watch Fox News when you're dead.
posted by Autumnheart at 9:15 AM on June 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Autumnheart at 9:15 AM on June 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
There are so many issues that are affected by healthcare policies - think of the rural hospitals mentioned above. Or the people using the ER's for non-emergencies, raising the cost of care for everyone else because they get too little care too late and the costs aren't covered by insurance. But it is true, many trump voters don't think they are affected.
He really thinks everyone is less educated than he is.
No, he knows his base is less educated than he is.
I just realized that actually I know about this from personal experience. Most of the time I teach people who are very smart - often smarter than me. It's stimulating and tough and lovely.
Sometimes for reasons that would be a serious derail here, I have to teach people who are very limited when it comes to complex problems such as being at the bus on time, or describing a text in plain language that they have been given as homework and had extra time to read again in class. For these people, I sometimes dumb down. I don't do it in front of class, and I don't do it to infantilize them. I do it to get them aboard with me so we can talk, and I can help them either move on or pass with a minimum grade*.
Trump does this all the time as manipulation. This doesn't mean he is smart. He probably really didn't know healthcare was that complicated, or that Saudi Arabia funds terrorists. When he seems stupid it is mainly because he is stupid. But he also dumbs down for his fans, because it works. He is a bulls**t artist. That is what he does for a living, and he has been doing it for 40+ years. He is good at it.
*Disclaimer: Sometimes students like this are just not smart. But sometimes the lack of comprehension is a sign of serious issues, such as severe stress or mental illness. You can't know in advance. Obviously it is important to treat everyone with respect
posted by mumimor at 9:17 AM on June 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
He really thinks everyone is less educated than he is.
No, he knows his base is less educated than he is.
I just realized that actually I know about this from personal experience. Most of the time I teach people who are very smart - often smarter than me. It's stimulating and tough and lovely.
Sometimes for reasons that would be a serious derail here, I have to teach people who are very limited when it comes to complex problems such as being at the bus on time, or describing a text in plain language that they have been given as homework and had extra time to read again in class. For these people, I sometimes dumb down. I don't do it in front of class, and I don't do it to infantilize them. I do it to get them aboard with me so we can talk, and I can help them either move on or pass with a minimum grade*.
Trump does this all the time as manipulation. This doesn't mean he is smart. He probably really didn't know healthcare was that complicated, or that Saudi Arabia funds terrorists. When he seems stupid it is mainly because he is stupid. But he also dumbs down for his fans, because it works. He is a bulls**t artist. That is what he does for a living, and he has been doing it for 40+ years. He is good at it.
*Disclaimer: Sometimes students like this are just not smart. But sometimes the lack of comprehension is a sign of serious issues, such as severe stress or mental illness. You can't know in advance. Obviously it is important to treat everyone with respect
posted by mumimor at 9:17 AM on June 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
Was the statement way up in the thread about the retroactive tax cut on investment income being in the Senate Bill true? Because no one else seems to be talking about it.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 9:20 AM on June 23, 2017
posted by ArgentCorvid at 9:20 AM on June 23, 2017
Now, some might disagree with characterizing Mitch McConnell as 'murderous'
Fair point. "Mass-murderous" it is, then.
posted by Rykey at 9:23 AM on June 23, 2017 [24 favorites]
Fair point. "Mass-murderous" it is, then.
posted by Rykey at 9:23 AM on June 23, 2017 [24 favorites]
Was the statement way up in the thread about the retroactive tax cut on investment income being in the Senate Bill true? Because no one else seems to be talking about it.
Yes, it's true. The repeal of the net investment income tax would apply for tax years beginning after 12/31/2016 (and so would apply to transactions that have already occurred this year).
posted by melissasaurus at 9:24 AM on June 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
Yes, it's true. The repeal of the net investment income tax would apply for tax years beginning after 12/31/2016 (and so would apply to transactions that have already occurred this year).
posted by melissasaurus at 9:24 AM on June 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
because they get insurance from employers
Hi. I get insurance from my employer. I have a mental illness and take a medication that costs over $1000/month. It's a nice little pre-existing condition that, before Obamacare, made it a lot harder thinking about changing jobs. If we go back to that situation, damn right I'm affected by it.
posted by jammer at 9:26 AM on June 23, 2017 [48 favorites]
Hi. I get insurance from my employer. I have a mental illness and take a medication that costs over $1000/month. It's a nice little pre-existing condition that, before Obamacare, made it a lot harder thinking about changing jobs. If we go back to that situation, damn right I'm affected by it.
posted by jammer at 9:26 AM on June 23, 2017 [48 favorites]
because they get insurance from employers
Not to mention that I'm as white collar as it gets and it hurts to have to decide if health of finances come first, to include employer-provided healthcare questions. I mean, I can either pay an arm and a leg every month for what passes as the decent insurance that comes to mind when we think of the term or I can pay significantly less per month for HSA style insurance that basically only comes into play if I get cancer or hit with a stray I-beam from a construction side I happen to be walking past, in the meantime I'm left to play Russian roulette hoping I don't get a really bad case of the flu or that my kid doesn't break her leg playing on the playground because I would be out, literally, thousands of dollars.
Getting that further testing for asthma workups and potential treatments? Fuggadaboutit, bills to pay.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:31 AM on June 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
Not to mention that I'm as white collar as it gets and it hurts to have to decide if health of finances come first, to include employer-provided healthcare questions. I mean, I can either pay an arm and a leg every month for what passes as the decent insurance that comes to mind when we think of the term or I can pay significantly less per month for HSA style insurance that basically only comes into play if I get cancer or hit with a stray I-beam from a construction side I happen to be walking past, in the meantime I'm left to play Russian roulette hoping I don't get a really bad case of the flu or that my kid doesn't break her leg playing on the playground because I would be out, literally, thousands of dollars.
Getting that further testing for asthma workups and potential treatments? Fuggadaboutit, bills to pay.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:31 AM on June 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
It also seems to me that this law incentivizes employers to stop offering health care benefits at all.
posted by Autumnheart at 9:33 AM on June 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Autumnheart at 9:33 AM on June 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Cool, thanks melissasaurus.
In all of the links posted yesterday on the effect of this bill, it wasn't ever mentioned or even alluded to.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 9:34 AM on June 23, 2017
In all of the links posted yesterday on the effect of this bill, it wasn't ever mentioned or even alluded to.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 9:34 AM on June 23, 2017
But for the vast majority of people the benefits are abstract enough that it is a very tough argument to make.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:41 AM on June 23, 2017 [56 favorites]
As of spring 2014, two-thirds of women using oral birth control and nearly three quarters of women using the vaginal contraceptive ring were no longer paying out-of-pocket for these methods.
An additional study found that 87% of insured women would have no out-of-pocket costs for coverage of a hormonal intrauterine device (IUD).
The ACA’s birth control benefit saved women $1.4 billion on birth control pills alone in 2013. [cite]
More than half of women in the United States are insured through an employer-sponsored plan, either as the primary beneficiary or as a spouse or dependent. The 2010 Kaiser/HRET survey of employers reported that 85% of large firms covered prescription contraceptives in their largest health plans, although they may have charged cost-sharing, the amount of which can vary greatly by employer and type of plan.Every single friend of mine benefited from the ACA's contraception provisions (either for themselves, their spouse, or for their covered dependent), and most have been on employer insurance during that time.
For example, the share of reproductive age women experiencing out-of-pocket spending on oral contraceptive pills declined from 20.9% in 2012 to 3.6% in 2014. This decline accounts for nearly two-thirds (63%) of the drop in out-of-pocket spending on retail drugs during this time period. [cite]
posted by melissasaurus at 9:41 AM on June 23, 2017 [56 favorites]
I have a job in tech and get insurance through my large employer for me plus my wife. We're in pretty good health, and our first child is due in roughly three weeks.
Gaia willing, our little girl will arrive and not need much more than our love, breastmilk, and diapers. But I'm incredibly scared of how this could impact our ability to care for her and ourselves if something unforeseen happens.
posted by strange chain at 9:44 AM on June 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
Gaia willing, our little girl will arrive and not need much more than our love, breastmilk, and diapers. But I'm incredibly scared of how this could impact our ability to care for her and ourselves if something unforeseen happens.
posted by strange chain at 9:44 AM on June 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
It also ties people to their corporate jobs rather than encouraging entrepreneurship.
I have a corporate job with fantastic benefits, but my husband works for a nonprofit where the benefits are good only for the employee (not employee + family). I have long wanted to be a work-at-home mom, and I have the skill set to bring in enough money to make it work, with some reduction in expenses—but the increase in health care costs make that choice cost-prohibitive. Moving the family onto husband's insurance would cost at least an extra $600/month—and we'd be going to a high-deductible plan. And we'd get no help on the exchanges, and I have pre-existing conditions (including having had a C-section that saved my daughter's life).
Yet another form of hypocrisy: making it near impossible for even the women who want to be the idealized stay-at-home mom to do so.
posted by timestep at 9:44 AM on June 23, 2017 [68 favorites]
I have a corporate job with fantastic benefits, but my husband works for a nonprofit where the benefits are good only for the employee (not employee + family). I have long wanted to be a work-at-home mom, and I have the skill set to bring in enough money to make it work, with some reduction in expenses—but the increase in health care costs make that choice cost-prohibitive. Moving the family onto husband's insurance would cost at least an extra $600/month—and we'd be going to a high-deductible plan. And we'd get no help on the exchanges, and I have pre-existing conditions (including having had a C-section that saved my daughter's life).
Yet another form of hypocrisy: making it near impossible for even the women who want to be the idealized stay-at-home mom to do so.
posted by timestep at 9:44 AM on June 23, 2017 [68 favorites]
Time, Massimo Calabresi: Election Hackers Altered Voter Rolls, Stole Private Data, Officials Say
RVAWonk: Pay attention to this part. If true, this would mean that Russia still has leverage over people close to Trump (and possibly Trump himself).
posted by Doktor Zed at 9:55 AM on June 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
RVAWonk: Pay attention to this part. If true, this would mean that Russia still has leverage over people close to Trump (and possibly Trump himself).
Current and former law enforcement and intelligence officials say Russia could have also tried to use stolen voter data to gain leverage over witting or unwitting accomplices in the Trump camp, by involving them in a broader conspiracy.Is there any wonder why Trump wants this "cloud" to go away yet refuses to admit there was Russian interference in the election or to say anything bad about Putin whatsoever?
posted by Doktor Zed at 9:55 AM on June 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
Hard to overlook that Russian hacking wouldn't have had nearly the effect without total media malpractice along side it, most especially by CNN and the NYT. Russia read our media like a book, they knew Clinton emails would blot out the sun because Clinton Rules, but it still took the New York Times to carry out their plan.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:02 AM on June 23, 2017 [36 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:02 AM on June 23, 2017 [36 favorites]
(Update on Senate bill awareness for foster parents - someone beat me to it, with a real simple "our kids will suffer! Call Johnson to fight this!" message. 6 likes, no comments. I think that's still a win for awareness.)
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 10:02 AM on June 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 10:02 AM on June 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
If what was released is a discussion draft, is it still possible that the text could be switched with something else at the last minute?
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:07 AM on June 23, 2017
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:07 AM on June 23, 2017
Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug: (Update on Senate bill awareness for foster parents - someone beat me to it, with a real simple "our kids will suffer! Call Johnson to fight this!" message. 6 likes, no comments. I think that's still a win for awareness.)
You can comment in agreement!
posted by Arbac at 10:11 AM on June 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
You can comment in agreement!
posted by Arbac at 10:11 AM on June 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
Effectively kill Medicaid, by capping funding, and tying increased to the rate of general inflation, rather than medical inflation
Besides the crude attempt at strangulating Medicare, this seems like a really bad idea to make Medicaid spending, and thus federal and state budgets, more dependent on the outcome of monetary policy choices. Is the Federal Reserve really the best choice for setting healthcare policy?
posted by peeedro at 10:12 AM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
Besides the crude attempt at strangulating Medicare, this seems like a really bad idea to make Medicaid spending, and thus federal and state budgets, more dependent on the outcome of monetary policy choices. Is the Federal Reserve really the best choice for setting healthcare policy?
posted by peeedro at 10:12 AM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
Regarding my previous post about estimating the number of deaths this bill will cause, it looks like Atul Gawande and others published on Wednesday in NEJM a massive meta-study on this and related outcome questions. They agree with the estimates I cited earlier: one death per 300-800 who lose coverage. That means over 15,000 new deaths in the first year of repeal, rising to over 25,000 per year in 2026. Also in the last day is this report from CAP with yearly estimates with similar numbers. So it does look like the opposition is actually moving to incorporate these numbers. In general, I think we should be including in our talking points not just costs and coverage, or generic claims that "people will die," but specific estimates, with a nearly-universal consensus among health experts that there will likely be well over 100,000 people killed by 2026 if 20 million lose their coverage. Putting a number on how many people are going to be killed by this gives it a bit more bite, and puts politicians or their staffers in the position of having to either deny the entire healthcare scientific consensus, or justify murder.
posted by chortly at 10:18 AM on June 23, 2017 [40 favorites]
posted by chortly at 10:18 AM on June 23, 2017 [40 favorites]
I would be surprised if more than a tiny percentage of people even know someone who exceeded lifetime spending caps
Is there any reason to believe that insurers won't create policies with much lower caps? Doesn't the Republican legislation give them many degrees of freedom they don't currently have?
posted by puddledork at 10:20 AM on June 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Is there any reason to believe that insurers won't create policies with much lower caps? Doesn't the Republican legislation give them many degrees of freedom they don't currently have?
posted by puddledork at 10:20 AM on June 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Maybe the effect of the act could be couched in terms of number of deaths per million dollars of either increase in health industry executive pay, or decrease in taxes paid.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:23 AM on June 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:23 AM on June 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
When I was diagnosed with cancer I asked my HR rep if there was a lifetime cap on our insurance, unaware that Obamacare had done away with them. She said no, but also said, "You probably wouldn't need to worry about it, anyway. The people who usually ran into trouble with lifetime caps were parents of very premature babies." So that's nice.
posted by something something at 10:26 AM on June 23, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by something something at 10:26 AM on June 23, 2017 [26 favorites]
The St. Louis Post-Dispatch is not messing around [front page]
The unfortunate thing is that almost no Trump supporters consider themselves to be "the poor".
posted by jferg at 10:27 AM on June 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
The unfortunate thing is that almost no Trump supporters consider themselves to be "the poor".
posted by jferg at 10:27 AM on June 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
When the Koch Brother funded Cato Institute comes out against the BCRA, you know it sucks.
Senate Health Care Bill: Worse Than Doing Nothing [podcast]
Keep in mind the Cato folks are in category of being against the BRCA because it's not horrible enough -- the medicaid cuts won't really happen because congress will reverse them, it doesn't do enough to remove subsidies, it doesn't remove community rating which is destroying the insurance industry, and it will get the reputation of a "free market reform" without being any such thing thus tarnishing the high reputation free market reforms truly deserve.
posted by wildblueyonder at 10:33 AM on June 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
Senate Health Care Bill: Worse Than Doing Nothing [podcast]
Keep in mind the Cato folks are in category of being against the BRCA because it's not horrible enough -- the medicaid cuts won't really happen because congress will reverse them, it doesn't do enough to remove subsidies, it doesn't remove community rating which is destroying the insurance industry, and it will get the reputation of a "free market reform" without being any such thing thus tarnishing the high reputation free market reforms truly deserve.
posted by wildblueyonder at 10:33 AM on June 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
tivalasvegas: The President thinks the government ought to be is his fiefdom, and genuinely (if that word can be used of him without instantly bursting into flames) does not understand why it isn't.
This is no secret or surprise:
posted by filthy light thief at 10:33 AM on June 23, 2017 [32 favorites]
This is no secret or surprise:
The former head of construction at Trump Tower in New York said Monday she couldn't believe presumptive GOP presidential nominee Donald Trump wants to be president.(Rebecca Savransky, 05/16/16 on The Hill)
"I couldn't imagine him ever doing a job where he would be beholden not to one person but 300 million," Barbara Res said in an interview with The New York Times.
"I think he thinks he's going to be king."
posted by filthy light thief at 10:33 AM on June 23, 2017 [32 favorites]
Is the Federal Reserve really the best choice for setting healthcare policy?
One of the ironies of the Fed is that a lot of conservatives complain about how the Fed is independent from the Government and none of it's positions are elected. That independence and separation from the political process has meant that the Fed has more or less kept the adults in charge. They don't always make the best use of the limited tools they have, but they at least appear to make a good faith effort to hold up their end of the bargain.
It's not the best choice but there are a LOT of worse ones.
posted by VTX at 10:35 AM on June 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
One of the ironies of the Fed is that a lot of conservatives complain about how the Fed is independent from the Government and none of it's positions are elected. That independence and separation from the political process has meant that the Fed has more or less kept the adults in charge. They don't always make the best use of the limited tools they have, but they at least appear to make a good faith effort to hold up their end of the bargain.
It's not the best choice but there are a LOT of worse ones.
posted by VTX at 10:35 AM on June 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
The unfortunate thing is that almost no Trump supporters consider themselves to be "the poor".
Exactly. "The poor" are the freeloaders and complaining minorities. They are "the working class," thank you very much. That headline won't sway them.
posted by greermahoney at 10:51 AM on June 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
Exactly. "The poor" are the freeloaders and complaining minorities. They are "the working class," thank you very much. That headline won't sway them.
posted by greermahoney at 10:51 AM on June 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
" ... The people who usually ran into trouble with lifetime caps were parents of very premature babies."
Not even close. This is where the fictional prices of out-of-network care get particularly insidious.
In network, that CT scan costs $50. Out of network, without group bargaining and provider discounts and negotiated reimbursement rates and all the other synonyms for "we made it up", it could be $500 or $5000 (what's the real price? who knows?) These price fictionalizations were, of course, the reason for so many medical bankruptcies in the pre-ACA era. People's lives were ruined ... for fiction.
It's pretty easy to reach $1M or $2M when extra zeros are added on at will. A bit of googling told me that in 2008, the million-dollar range was par: 22 percent had caps of less than $2 million.
By those measurements, I would have already capped out. I had a very bad accident in 2011, in an out-of-network location, and moving me back to in-network wasn't a possibility for a few weeks. My insurer at the time ended up paying well over $1M for my care.
And I'm in the supposedly most-secure bracket: employer-insured.
But I'm so, so, alert to how quickly I could fall out of that bracket. If my health goes downhill and I can't work, I lose the employer insurance .... I'm uninsurable.
And the many, many ways in which this new legislation wants to weaken what insurers must insure ... "shifting the (remember, fictional) cost" onto patients ... I'm just so horrified.
posted by Dashy at 10:52 AM on June 23, 2017 [21 favorites]
Not even close. This is where the fictional prices of out-of-network care get particularly insidious.
In network, that CT scan costs $50. Out of network, without group bargaining and provider discounts and negotiated reimbursement rates and all the other synonyms for "we made it up", it could be $500 or $5000 (what's the real price? who knows?) These price fictionalizations were, of course, the reason for so many medical bankruptcies in the pre-ACA era. People's lives were ruined ... for fiction.
It's pretty easy to reach $1M or $2M when extra zeros are added on at will. A bit of googling told me that in 2008, the million-dollar range was par: 22 percent had caps of less than $2 million.
By those measurements, I would have already capped out. I had a very bad accident in 2011, in an out-of-network location, and moving me back to in-network wasn't a possibility for a few weeks. My insurer at the time ended up paying well over $1M for my care.
And I'm in the supposedly most-secure bracket: employer-insured.
But I'm so, so, alert to how quickly I could fall out of that bracket. If my health goes downhill and I can't work, I lose the employer insurance .... I'm uninsurable.
And the many, many ways in which this new legislation wants to weaken what insurers must insure ... "shifting the (remember, fictional) cost" onto patients ... I'm just so horrified.
posted by Dashy at 10:52 AM on June 23, 2017 [21 favorites]
> "The people who usually ran into trouble with lifetime caps were parents of very premature babies." So that's nice.
Yeah, well, there's nothing like having a disabled kid for handcuffing you to your job (with good health insurance, thank you) and dependent on Medicaid on top of that. There's no doubt at all that these so-called "culture of life" folks would just rather my kid hurried up and died.
(I told Tom Reed's staffer that, and she was outraged - the new health care plan would be *better* for kids and the disabled, she assured me. Guys, I'm beginning to think she might have fibbed.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:53 AM on June 23, 2017 [35 favorites]
Yeah, well, there's nothing like having a disabled kid for handcuffing you to your job (with good health insurance, thank you) and dependent on Medicaid on top of that. There's no doubt at all that these so-called "culture of life" folks would just rather my kid hurried up and died.
(I told Tom Reed's staffer that, and she was outraged - the new health care plan would be *better* for kids and the disabled, she assured me. Guys, I'm beginning to think she might have fibbed.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:53 AM on June 23, 2017 [35 favorites]
President Trump's Lies, the Definitive List (David Leonhardt & Stuart A. Thompson, NYT)
posted by neroli at 10:54 AM on June 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by neroli at 10:54 AM on June 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
Doesn't he just do that every Friday because there's always a scoop? Anyway WaPo went early this week.
posted by Artw at 10:56 AM on June 23, 2017
posted by Artw at 10:56 AM on June 23, 2017
Either they went early, or they had two news-bombs to drop and that was the lesser.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:57 AM on June 23, 2017
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:57 AM on June 23, 2017
Maybe the effect of the act could be couched in terms of number of deaths per million dollars of either increase in health industry executive pay, or decrease in taxes paid.
Per the Joint Committee on Taxation report on the House version of AHCA, the repeal of the net investment income tax would result in a decrease in tax revenue of ~$16 billion.
The JCT report shows that the provision allowing full deductions for excessive insurance company CEO salaries would result in a decrease in revenue of ~$67 million in 2018.
Per the reports cited by chortly above, health experts are expecting >15,000 new deaths in 2018 due to AHCA.
So, that's about one death per million dollars in decreased taxes on rich people's stock trades. Or or about 2.25 deaths per million dollars in decreased taxes on insurance company CEO pay.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:57 AM on June 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
Per the Joint Committee on Taxation report on the House version of AHCA, the repeal of the net investment income tax would result in a decrease in tax revenue of ~$16 billion.
The JCT report shows that the provision allowing full deductions for excessive insurance company CEO salaries would result in a decrease in revenue of ~$67 million in 2018.
Per the reports cited by chortly above, health experts are expecting >15,000 new deaths in 2018 due to AHCA.
So, that's about one death per million dollars in decreased taxes on rich people's stock trades. Or or about 2.25 deaths per million dollars in decreased taxes on insurance company CEO pay.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:57 AM on June 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
Ugh, I'm sorry it causes you stress lalex. I think it's dumb. I read his "tick tick tick" as "Don't pay attention to me until after the info has dropped."
Just fucking tell us what you know or shut the fuck up Ben.
posted by VTX at 10:58 AM on June 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
Just fucking tell us what you know or shut the fuck up Ben.
posted by VTX at 10:58 AM on June 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
Seems like Wittes' "boom" stories are all in the NYTimes by Michael Schmidt. I'd expect something from him tonight or Monday (his last story was June 15th).
posted by pjenks at 11:02 AM on June 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by pjenks at 11:02 AM on June 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
Or or about 2.25 deaths per million dollars in decreased taxes on insurance company CEO pay.
Sorry, my math was off (millions vs billions) - it's actually about 225 deaths per million dollars of decreased taxes on insurance company CEO salary.
posted by melissasaurus at 11:06 AM on June 23, 2017 [13 favorites]
Sorry, my math was off (millions vs billions) - it's actually about 225 deaths per million dollars of decreased taxes on insurance company CEO salary.
posted by melissasaurus at 11:06 AM on June 23, 2017 [13 favorites]
Is there any reason to believe that insurers won't create policies with much lower caps? Doesn't the Republican legislation give them many degrees of freedom they don't currently have?
I think we very well might see that, or if not caps, coverage exclusions. Without an individual mandate or a continuous coverage penalty, some proportion of healthy people will drop out of the market, preferring to gamble on going uninsured. Insurers are going to have to do something to try to control costs in that situation (the number I usually see thrown around is a 20% premium hike just for that). Vox just published an excellent article on how the BCRA state waivers work, and they give state governors a ton of authority to do whatever they want to the health care system, including (some people think) bringing lifetime caps back to employer-sponsored plans as well.
There's a rumor though that the continuous coverage penalty, or even worse, waiting periods, might be coming back, if they can pass the Byrd Bath.
In other news...
@maggieNYT: Al Badasaro, who last year called for Clinton be shot, was in East Room for Trump VA event.
WaPo: White House frustration grows with Tillerson over jobs for Trump allies. Apparently, Tillerson is too slow to appoint Trump cronies, and that makes them sad.
posted by zachlipton at 11:06 AM on June 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
I think we very well might see that, or if not caps, coverage exclusions. Without an individual mandate or a continuous coverage penalty, some proportion of healthy people will drop out of the market, preferring to gamble on going uninsured. Insurers are going to have to do something to try to control costs in that situation (the number I usually see thrown around is a 20% premium hike just for that). Vox just published an excellent article on how the BCRA state waivers work, and they give state governors a ton of authority to do whatever they want to the health care system, including (some people think) bringing lifetime caps back to employer-sponsored plans as well.
There's a rumor though that the continuous coverage penalty, or even worse, waiting periods, might be coming back, if they can pass the Byrd Bath.
In other news...
@maggieNYT: Al Badasaro, who last year called for Clinton be shot, was in East Room for Trump VA event.
WaPo: White House frustration grows with Tillerson over jobs for Trump allies. Apparently, Tillerson is too slow to appoint Trump cronies, and that makes them sad.
The internal Trump administration complaints about Peterlin’s role boil down to a tussle over who calls the shots about access to Tillerson and the filling of political jobs.This is actually a rather surprising statement to come out of any part of this administration:
Peterlin has even tried to limit direct access to Tillerson by White House chief of staff Reince Priebus and other top officials, one outside adviser to the White House said, leaving White House officials to “sneak around” or call Tillerson on his cellphone, that person and administration officials said.
“It is stove-piped,” one senior administration official said. “Calls aren’t getting returned. It’s that kind of crap.”
“A desire for political patronage does not help a candidate overcome a lack of competence,” he said.Meanwhile, the Senate Judiciary investigation is focusing on what really matters: Senate Judiciary sends letters to find out if Loretta Lynch tried to interfere with Clinton email investigation
posted by zachlipton at 11:06 AM on June 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
> Exit to "You Can't Always Get What You Want" because nothing matters anymore.
Matthew Yglesias, Vox: The health bill might pass because Trump has launched the era of Nothing Matters politics
Matthew Yglesias, Vox: The health bill might pass because Trump has launched the era of Nothing Matters politics
The Better Care Reconciliation Act that Mitch McConnell revealed to the public today fails on all those tests. It should be deader than dead. Not meaningless, by any means, but simply a vehicle that hardcore conservatives in safe districts can use to vent, while more pragmatic members of Congress try to think of a sensible plan B, like working with red-state Democrats on some kind of bipartisan health bill.posted by tonycpsu at 11:08 AM on June 23, 2017 [54 favorites]
But it’s not dead. It might fail, but the chances of passage are very real — with most advocates on both sides now believing the GOP will succeed. Because ever since Donald Trump rode down the escalator at Trump Tower to say he was running for president to stop Mexico from flooding our country with rapists and murderers, nothing about the laws of political gravity have been operating the way they’re supposed to. A fairly transparent grifter got himself elected president of the United States with 2 million fewer votes than his opponent, so anything can happen. [...]
Since taking office, his signature values — showmanship, shamelessness, and corruption — have spread like kudzu in official Washington. It’s now a country where Cabinet secretaries go on television to lie and claim that a $600 billion cut to Medicaid won’t cause anyone to lose coverage. It’s a country where the speaker of the House introduces an amendment to erode protections for patients with preexisting conditions and then immediately tweets that it’s just been “VERIFIED” (by whom?) that the opposite is happening. Republican senators who a couple of months ago were criticizing the House bill’s Medicaid cuts as too harsh are now warming up to a Senate bill whose cuts are even harsher.
The watchwords of Trump-era politics are “LOL nothing matters.” If you’re in a jam, you just lie about it. If you’re caught in an embarrassing situation, you create a new provocation and hope that people move on. Everything is founded, most of all, on the assumption that the basic tribal impulses of negative partisanship will keep everyone on their side, while knowing that gerrymandering means Republicans will win every toss-up election. If you happened to believe that Republicans in office would deliver on their health care promises, well, you might be interested in a degree from Trump University.
National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: Give the Senate health-care bill a chance. It gives vital succor to so many!
Frankly, I think we are being unfair to the Senate version of the health-care bill. Too much time has already been spent on all the problems it creates — for the indigent, the pregnant, the elderly, those who depend on Medicaid. But what about the problems it solves?posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:21 AM on June 23, 2017 [28 favorites]
We are taking those too lightly, I feel. The Affordable Care Act placed a great burden on a great many people, and the Senate bill seeks to relieve their sacrifice.
Think of the families teetering at the steep pinnacle of the income distribution, wondering whether their finances will stretch to cover a lifesaving surgery for their purebred dressage horse. Thanks to the tax breaks this bill offers, they can rest assured that Dick Whittington Lord Mare Of London will get a replacement knee and continue to dance merrily over the course.
This is not just a tax break for the wealthy. It may well be the difference between life and death for countless sports cars and golf tourneys across America. Before, their money was wasted on dialysis for strangers who might possibly not even understand the finer points of badminton. Now that money is being restored, and it will go where it is most needed.
Seems like Wittes' "boom" stories are all in the NYTimes by Michael Schmidt. I'd expect something from him tonight or Monday (his last story was June 15th).
Wittes has a followup tweet saying "To be clear, fuse length on this one is uncertain. Could be today. Could be Monday."
posted by chris24 at 11:22 AM on June 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Wittes has a followup tweet saying "To be clear, fuse length on this one is uncertain. Could be today. Could be Monday."
posted by chris24 at 11:22 AM on June 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
I read his "tick tick tick" as "Don't pay attention to me until after the info has dropped."
Besides the ongoing fallout from Trump's "WITCH HUNT" tweet, we all knew that he was going to take some shots at Comey and Mueller in interview this morning with Fox 'n' Friends, because the fat idiot can't listen to his own lawyers' advice to keep his damn fool mouth shut. (The admission that he had no tapes of Comey and that he was bluffing him won't play at all with either Comey's desire to preserve his reputation or Mueller's investigation of obstruction of justice.) At this point, we can expect that Comey and Mueller will be able to anticipate this as well and have prepared some bombshells of their own ahead of time.
I'd expect something from him tonight or Monday (his last story was June 15th).
That's what Wittes says, too: "To be clear, fuse length on this one is uncertain. Could be today. Could be Monday."
Guys, I think he might want to spoil Trump's weekend golf plans.
posted by Doktor Zed at 11:23 AM on June 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
Besides the ongoing fallout from Trump's "WITCH HUNT" tweet, we all knew that he was going to take some shots at Comey and Mueller in interview this morning with Fox 'n' Friends, because the fat idiot can't listen to his own lawyers' advice to keep his damn fool mouth shut. (The admission that he had no tapes of Comey and that he was bluffing him won't play at all with either Comey's desire to preserve his reputation or Mueller's investigation of obstruction of justice.) At this point, we can expect that Comey and Mueller will be able to anticipate this as well and have prepared some bombshells of their own ahead of time.
I'd expect something from him tonight or Monday (his last story was June 15th).
That's what Wittes says, too: "To be clear, fuse length on this one is uncertain. Could be today. Could be Monday."
Guys, I think he might want to spoil Trump's weekend golf plans.
posted by Doktor Zed at 11:23 AM on June 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
This is not just a tax break for the wealthy. It may well be the difference between life and death for countless sports cars and golf tourneys across America. Before, their money was wasted on dialysis for strangers who might possibly not even understand the finer points of badminton. Now that money is being restored, and it will go where it is most needed."More like Fahrentholdmybeer."
posted by Etrigan at 11:26 AM on June 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
We regret to inform you that @IronStache (ironworker running for Paul Ryan's seat) is a Louise Mensch fan.
posted by zachlipton at 11:31 AM on June 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:31 AM on June 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
it's actually about 225 deaths per million dollars of decreased taxes on insurance company CEO salary.
So, your life is worth $4444.44 to these people.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 11:37 AM on June 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
So, your life is worth $4444.44 to these people.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 11:37 AM on June 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
In case anyone else hadn't seen it yet either—Waiting For Godot’s Obamacare Replacement starring Patrick Stewart and Stephen Colbert
posted by XMLicious at 11:41 AM on June 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by XMLicious at 11:41 AM on June 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
Sen. Heller (NV) says he's a "no" on the bill in its current form, after Gov. Sandoval blasted the Medicaid cuts and said premiums will rise. Let the bribing commence.
posted by zachlipton at 11:51 AM on June 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:51 AM on June 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
NYT: Arab Nations Issue Demands to Qatar
These are demands designed not to be met.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:01 PM on June 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
These are demands designed not to be met.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:01 PM on June 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
NYT: Arab Nations Issue Demands to Qatar
These are demands designed not to be met.
I'm not the only one who immediately thought of the ultimatum to Serbia in 1914, right? I mean, I know it's a different situation and context, but it has that feel to me.
posted by nubs at 12:11 PM on June 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
These are demands designed not to be met.
I'm not the only one who immediately thought of the ultimatum to Serbia in 1914, right? I mean, I know it's a different situation and context, but it has that feel to me.
posted by nubs at 12:11 PM on June 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
So, your life is worth $4444.44 to these people.
Ha!
posted by petebest at 12:14 PM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Ha!
posted by petebest at 12:14 PM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
@Mikel_Jollett
BERNIE: The Democratic brand is WORSE THAN TRUMP.
Really? Worse than gutting health care & deporting DREAMERS? [video]
- Right now Trump is trying to pass a law damaging MILLIONS of families -- and Bernie is still out here just criticizing Democrats.
- I like Bernie and I agree he's raised some good points. But WORSE THAN TRUMP? This is utter horseshit.
---
And Trump and Rs are going to jump on this and we're going to hear it now through 2020. Just like when he said Clinton wasn't qualified to be president in the primaries.
posted by chris24 at 12:15 PM on June 23, 2017 [40 favorites]
BERNIE: The Democratic brand is WORSE THAN TRUMP.
Really? Worse than gutting health care & deporting DREAMERS? [video]
- Right now Trump is trying to pass a law damaging MILLIONS of families -- and Bernie is still out here just criticizing Democrats.
- I like Bernie and I agree he's raised some good points. But WORSE THAN TRUMP? This is utter horseshit.
---
And Trump and Rs are going to jump on this and we're going to hear it now through 2020. Just like when he said Clinton wasn't qualified to be president in the primaries.
posted by chris24 at 12:15 PM on June 23, 2017 [40 favorites]
I've been saying keep your eye on Qatar, but also note that parts of Palestine are down to less than three hours of electricity per day. This is not a stable region to begin, but with aid from Qatar stopped, it's getting dicey.
The demands of the Saudis were meant as an insult. They have been received as such. It is a clear, undeniable, provocation.
This is a precursor to war between Iran and Saudi, with Qatar and Turkey in the middle. And we have sleepy tillerson at the head of State, and nobody knows where his loyalties lie. Is it the U.S., is it profit uber alles?
And what of our 10k forces and trillions of dollars in equipment. Do the Saudis expect us to just give it to them if Qatar surrenders to these demands? This is just madness.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 12:17 PM on June 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
The demands of the Saudis were meant as an insult. They have been received as such. It is a clear, undeniable, provocation.
This is a precursor to war between Iran and Saudi, with Qatar and Turkey in the middle. And we have sleepy tillerson at the head of State, and nobody knows where his loyalties lie. Is it the U.S., is it profit uber alles?
And what of our 10k forces and trillions of dollars in equipment. Do the Saudis expect us to just give it to them if Qatar surrenders to these demands? This is just madness.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 12:17 PM on June 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
If that's what he's going to use his pulpit to talk about, Bernie can go to hell with the rest of them. That's JILL STEIN level of fucking nonsense.
posted by lydhre at 12:17 PM on June 23, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 12:17 PM on June 23, 2017 [34 favorites]
BERNIE: The Democratic brand is WORSE THAN TRUMP.
I'ma need some context on this.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:20 PM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'ma need some context on this.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:20 PM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
To be fair, Bernie didn't say the Democratic brand "is worse than Trump", he said "it may be [worse than Trump]." Just like when I say "Bernie Sanders may be a well-intentioned asshole", I'm not explicitly saying that he's well-intentioned.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:20 PM on June 23, 2017 [56 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 12:20 PM on June 23, 2017 [56 favorites]
Heller just came out as a no vote.
“I cannot support a piece of legislation that takes away insurance from tens of millions of Americans and hundreds of thousands of Nevadans,” Heller said in a news conference held in his home state.
No word if he's open to "compromises" or "changes".
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:24 PM on June 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
“I cannot support a piece of legislation that takes away insurance from tens of millions of Americans and hundreds of thousands of Nevadans,” Heller said in a news conference held in his home state.
No word if he's open to "compromises" or "changes".
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:24 PM on June 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
And in the video, Bernie is responding to a question about Democratic Congressman Tim Ryan's statement that the party's brand is worse than Trump. Ryan said it, AC asked Bernie if he agreed, Bernie said "it may be."
posted by scrowdid at 12:24 PM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by scrowdid at 12:24 PM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
even in these threads we get people reacting to horrible GOP nonsense by saying stuff like "man I can't wait to primary any democrat who doesn't vehemently denounce THAT!"
if everybody in the circular firing squad turned around 180 degrees, we'd all have each others' backs. isn't that a nice sentiment, it should be in a badly artifacted facebook jpeg
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:25 PM on June 23, 2017 [23 favorites]
if everybody in the circular firing squad turned around 180 degrees, we'd all have each others' backs. isn't that a nice sentiment, it should be in a badly artifacted facebook jpeg
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:25 PM on June 23, 2017 [23 favorites]
I've been saying keep your eye on Qatar, but also note that parts of Palestine are down to less than three hours of electricity per day. This is not a stable region to begin, but with aid from Qatar stopped, it's getting dicey.
And don't forget about Al Tanf in Syria. Or do, if you'd like to enjoy the rest of your afternoon.
posted by GalaxieFiveHundred at 12:25 PM on June 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
And don't forget about Al Tanf in Syria. Or do, if you'd like to enjoy the rest of your afternoon.
posted by GalaxieFiveHundred at 12:25 PM on June 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
So maybe one of you elite egghead types can splain it to me, but some say that Qatar is being targeted by Saudi/US for agreeing to sell their oil in Yuan instead of $US.
This drew the Russia sanctions from Sleepy T because the sanctions work to solidify the Saudi/US oil monopoly in Europe? this article, New US Russia sanctions bill riles Germany and Austria (BBC, I don't see an author's name on it) was the only MSM one I saw to support this, the rest were . . . not.
posted by petebest at 12:27 PM on June 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
This drew the Russia sanctions from Sleepy T because the sanctions work to solidify the Saudi/US oil monopoly in Europe? this article, New US Russia sanctions bill riles Germany and Austria (BBC, I don't see an author's name on it) was the only MSM one I saw to support this, the rest were . . . not.
posted by petebest at 12:27 PM on June 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Where's our "Republicans are willing to let you die for $4500 extra in a CEO's pocket" memes?
posted by scrowdid at 12:28 PM on June 23, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by scrowdid at 12:28 PM on June 23, 2017 [13 favorites]
So that press conference with Sen. Heller was pretty extraordinary. He started off as a no, but the more he opened his mouth, the more he trashed the bill. It got to the point where he was saying stuff like: It's a "lie" that Senate health bill would lower premiums. "There isn't anything in this bill that would lower premiums." He's writing the campaign ads against him if he winds up voting for this thing.
He left himself open to supporting it if there's changes, but it's hard for me to see how they can buy him off given his extensive criticisms that cut at the heart of the bill.
In other news, CNN sent their sketch artist to the White House press briefing and aired the full audio after it ended.
Oh, and WaPo: White House will step up lobbying against Iran-Russia sanctions bill now stalled in Congress. They have no shame whatsoever.
posted by zachlipton at 12:31 PM on June 23, 2017 [37 favorites]
He left himself open to supporting it if there's changes, but it's hard for me to see how they can buy him off given his extensive criticisms that cut at the heart of the bill.
In other news, CNN sent their sketch artist to the White House press briefing and aired the full audio after it ended.
Oh, and WaPo: White House will step up lobbying against Iran-Russia sanctions bill now stalled in Congress. They have no shame whatsoever.
posted by zachlipton at 12:31 PM on June 23, 2017 [37 favorites]
I'm not the only one who immediately thought of the ultimatum to Serbia in 1914, right? I mean, I know it's a different situation and context, but it has that feel to me.
War, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Building Trump's approval!
Say it again, why'all
posted by Talez at 12:32 PM on June 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
War, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Building Trump's approval!
Say it again, why'all
posted by Talez at 12:32 PM on June 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
So maybe one of you elite egghead types can splain it to me, but some say that Qatar is being targeted by Saudi/US for agreeing to sell their oil in Yuan instead of $US.
Qatar being targeted by Saudis is simply the norm. Aggressively demonstrated every 5-10 years. Basically just for being Qatar. Saudis accept nothing but little brother/servant status from them.
posted by rc3spencer at 12:32 PM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Qatar being targeted by Saudis is simply the norm. Aggressively demonstrated every 5-10 years. Basically just for being Qatar. Saudis accept nothing but little brother/servant status from them.
posted by rc3spencer at 12:32 PM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Doesn't seem to me that employer provided insurance is all that safe. I know plenty of people who aren't allowed to work above the 32 hour/week threshold or whatever that number is because then the company would have to pay for their insurance. That's too expensive for the gazillions of small businesses out there.
posted by yoga at 12:32 PM on June 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by yoga at 12:32 PM on June 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
Mod note: Guys, maybe we can not dig in super hard on dumb interview quotes.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:35 PM on June 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:35 PM on June 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
I measure changes in health care policy in part using this metric: Will it murder my brother?
My brother is 60 years old. He has severe progressive-relapsing multiple sclerosis. He receives SSI and is several years away from Medicare. He lives in an extended care home.
There is no way on earth he could get private health insurance to cover to cover losses to government insurance. The private insurers would lose a ton of money.
Will SSI be affected? If not directly, indirectly. If others in the extended care home can not pay due to cuts in Medicaid or loss of current insurance, will the facility continue to exist? Will it have to raise its rates? Who will pay for those raised rates? Will the quality of care be greatly compromised?
I don't know the answers to these questions. I do feel that these changes, if they are not a loaded gun pointed at him, are at least a game of Russian Roulette. One bullet, six chambers. If not my brother, someone else's.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:36 PM on June 23, 2017 [49 favorites]
My brother is 60 years old. He has severe progressive-relapsing multiple sclerosis. He receives SSI and is several years away from Medicare. He lives in an extended care home.
There is no way on earth he could get private health insurance to cover to cover losses to government insurance. The private insurers would lose a ton of money.
Will SSI be affected? If not directly, indirectly. If others in the extended care home can not pay due to cuts in Medicaid or loss of current insurance, will the facility continue to exist? Will it have to raise its rates? Who will pay for those raised rates? Will the quality of care be greatly compromised?
I don't know the answers to these questions. I do feel that these changes, if they are not a loaded gun pointed at him, are at least a game of Russian Roulette. One bullet, six chambers. If not my brother, someone else's.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:36 PM on June 23, 2017 [49 favorites]
Qatar being targeted by Saudis is simply the norm. Aggressively demonstrated every 5-10 years. Basically just for being Qatar. Saudis accept nothing but little brother/servant status from them.
That and most of the KSA Royal Family keep funding Wahhabists and Qatar have the nerve to keep pointing this out on their high rating TV channel.
Also, Google Chrome is telling me the autocorrect of wahhabists is wabbits. Food for thought.
posted by Talez at 12:37 PM on June 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
That and most of the KSA Royal Family keep funding Wahhabists and Qatar have the nerve to keep pointing this out on their high rating TV channel.
Also, Google Chrome is telling me the autocorrect of wahhabists is wabbits. Food for thought.
posted by Talez at 12:37 PM on June 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
Heller's actual statement emphasizes the "current bill", he's leaving the door wide open to a replay of the McArthur amendment in the House, they're going to run the exact same play again, and Heller and the rest of the "moderates" can pretend to be satisfied by some minuscule amendment.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:38 PM on June 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:38 PM on June 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
[Guys, maybe we can not dig in super hard on dumb interview quotes.]
Seriously? There's not going to be much talk about Trump in here then.
posted by bongo_x at 12:38 PM on June 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
Seriously? There's not going to be much talk about Trump in here then.
posted by bongo_x at 12:38 PM on June 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
Qatar being targeted by Saudis is simply the norm.
So Qatar didn't make some kind of sweeping change to only process oil/gas sales in Yuan? If not, ok thanks that's what I was wondering about. If so, I guess that would be an economic item, at any rate, depending on how much in lost $US it implies.
posted by petebest at 12:39 PM on June 23, 2017
So Qatar didn't make some kind of sweeping change to only process oil/gas sales in Yuan? If not, ok thanks that's what I was wondering about. If so, I guess that would be an economic item, at any rate, depending on how much in lost $US it implies.
posted by petebest at 12:39 PM on June 23, 2017
Good primer on the difficulty of having a free press, being on the unpopular side of the Arab Spring with your neighbors, making money on gas, and fomenting conflict in Syria.
Qatar: The Gulf's Problem Child
posted by rc3spencer at 12:39 PM on June 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
Qatar: The Gulf's Problem Child
posted by rc3spencer at 12:39 PM on June 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
Seiously? There's not going to be much talk about Trump in here then.
I mean on the one hand hoyoooooooooo but on the other hand ask me five months into his presidency how much value I as a MetaFilter moderator am seeing the site get out of reacting at length to every dumb fucking thing he burps out.
posted by cortex at 12:41 PM on June 23, 2017 [27 favorites]
I mean on the one hand hoyoooooooooo but on the other hand ask me five months into his presidency how much value I as a MetaFilter moderator am seeing the site get out of reacting at length to every dumb fucking thing he burps out.
posted by cortex at 12:41 PM on June 23, 2017 [27 favorites]
I get where you're coming from as a moderator, but "can't we just ignore the stupid shit our politicians say and accept it as normal?" doesn't seem like a great plan.
posted by bongo_x at 12:44 PM on June 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by bongo_x at 12:44 PM on June 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
I apologize for being overly broad up there in an attempt not to pick on anyone in particular; I don't want to get into a whole metadiscussion about the broad question of Trump et al's horrific politics vs. conversational dynamics, I was mostly concerned with not going down a fucking rabbit hole on Bernie hair-tearing and dumb random Nazi analogies. I am running a little low on patience right now so maybe we can collectively let both the specific collective "OH MY GOD BERNIE" thing and this side-argument based on my vagueness drop now.
posted by cortex at 12:45 PM on June 23, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by cortex at 12:45 PM on June 23, 2017 [25 favorites]
But basically everything substantive he says is dumb, and his words have a real impact on people's lives.
Remembers that 'monkey with a gun' metaphor. Nods. Sips tea.
posted by rc3spencer at 12:48 PM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Remembers that 'monkey with a gun' metaphor. Nods. Sips tea.
posted by rc3spencer at 12:48 PM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Like I said many moons ago: It's gonna be a problem, because the world and people in it literally live and die over the meaningless farty noises that come out of his mouth.
posted by Archelaus at 12:49 PM on June 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Archelaus at 12:49 PM on June 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
I know plenty of people who aren't allowed to work above the 32 hour/week threshold or whatever that number is because then the company would have to pay for their insurance. That's too expensive for the gazillions of small businesses out there.
Because the Republican 'health care' bills explicitly remove the Employer Mandate, that means your friends may get more hours. They'll be able to work 40 or more hours a week (probably), but will continue to not have healthcare. In some ways, this is an improvement for them.
posted by puddledork at 12:50 PM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
Because the Republican 'health care' bills explicitly remove the Employer Mandate, that means your friends may get more hours. They'll be able to work 40 or more hours a week (probably), but will continue to not have healthcare. In some ways, this is an improvement for them.
posted by puddledork at 12:50 PM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
If you've got nothing better to do than debating the relative awfulness of a particular Bernie quote while waiting for Wittes' ticking to go boom, I'd strongly encourage you to read the WaPo report on the Obama Administration's response to election hacking, which pjenks linked upthread. It's an extraordinary story.
posted by zachlipton at 12:52 PM on June 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:52 PM on June 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
In some ways, this is an improvement for them.
If staff can work 40 hours instead of 32 then 1/5 of the staff are going to get fired.
posted by Talez at 12:53 PM on June 23, 2017 [19 favorites]
If staff can work 40 hours instead of 32 then 1/5 of the staff are going to get fired.
posted by Talez at 12:53 PM on June 23, 2017 [19 favorites]
Or be expected to work 60 and get paid for 40.
posted by delfin at 12:54 PM on June 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by delfin at 12:54 PM on June 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
I mean this question of trump burps and how much we should talk about trump burps gets at the crux of one of my longstanding discomforts with this thread (which I wish I could quit, but aaaaaaa it always drags me back in). basically I've had a long sense that it is valuable when it's devoted to what we're doing — "we," here, meaning individual mefites and their organizations plus those elected democrats invested in rowdy opposition. And likewise, that it's kind of crap when it's devoted to what they're saying, "they" meaning the republican party electeds and their trumpist conspiracy, cable news media and the "narratives" they try to set, middle-of-road elected democrats who pretend we're in normal times, etc.
basically our goal in the broader world right now is to make what we're up to more important than what they're up to; to keep them from scribbling their crayola-colored fascism over the nation, while working to write our better version of the world into history. If we obsess over everything they say, we're helping them take over our country and our minds.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:55 PM on June 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
basically our goal in the broader world right now is to make what we're up to more important than what they're up to; to keep them from scribbling their crayola-colored fascism over the nation, while working to write our better version of the world into history. If we obsess over everything they say, we're helping them take over our country and our minds.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:55 PM on June 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
Or be expected to work 60 and get paid for 40.
Employers can get away with a lot of shit but if their employees are making less than $20/hr they're getting paid overtime.
posted by Talez at 12:59 PM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Employers can get away with a lot of shit but if their employees are making less than $20/hr they're getting paid overtime.
posted by Talez at 12:59 PM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
> I'd strongly encourage you to read the WaPo report on the Obama Administration's response to election hacking,
@emptywheel does some interesting meta-reporting on the WaPo story.
posted by klarck at 12:59 PM on June 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
@emptywheel does some interesting meta-reporting on the WaPo story.
posted by klarck at 12:59 PM on June 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
If they're hourly, yes. On salary, not so much.
posted by delfin at 1:00 PM on June 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by delfin at 1:00 PM on June 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
If they're hourly, yes. On salary, not so much.
If they're salary they're not getting screwed by employers over the 32 hour full time insurance rule.
posted by Talez at 1:04 PM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
If they're salary they're not getting screwed by employers over the 32 hour full time insurance rule.
posted by Talez at 1:04 PM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Or be expected to work 60 and get paid for 40.
Employers can get away with a lot of shit but if their employees are making less than $20/hr they're getting paid overtime.
You left out a gigantic "should be" there. Enforcing labor standards is a great idea that does not have nearly 100 percent support more or less anywhere.
posted by Etrigan at 1:06 PM on June 23, 2017 [24 favorites]
Employers can get away with a lot of shit but if their employees are making less than $20/hr they're getting paid overtime.
You left out a gigantic "should be" there. Enforcing labor standards is a great idea that does not have nearly 100 percent support more or less anywhere.
posted by Etrigan at 1:06 PM on June 23, 2017 [24 favorites]
There's no doubt at all that these so-called "culture of life" folks would just rather my kid hurried up and died.
(I told Tom Reed's staffer that, and she was outraged - the new health care plan would be *better* for kids and the disabled, she assured me. Guys, I'm beginning to think she might have fibbed.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:53 PM on June 23
From Senator Richard Burr's Statement:
Doesn't look like they are going to try and bribe Heller:
@Maggie Habberman: AMERICA FIRST POLICIES, the pro-Trump/Pence outside group that Pence has been raising for, is preparing a seven-figure ad buy against HELLER
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:08 PM on June 23, 2017 [17 favorites]
(I told Tom Reed's staffer that, and she was outraged - the new health care plan would be *better* for kids and the disabled, she assured me. Guys, I'm beginning to think she might have fibbed.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:53 PM on June 23
From Senator Richard Burr's Statement:
Restores hundreds of millions of Medicaid dollars to North Carolina hospitals and health systems that serve our most vulnerable, reversing the cuts made to Medicaid by Obamacare.This must be one of their talking points.
Doesn't look like they are going to try and bribe Heller:
@Maggie Habberman: AMERICA FIRST POLICIES, the pro-Trump/Pence outside group that Pence has been raising for, is preparing a seven-figure ad buy against HELLER
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:08 PM on June 23, 2017 [17 favorites]
Between that ad buy and their fervent denial (and enablement) of climate change, it's clear the republicans are planning on putting through their agenda, come Heller high water.
posted by one for the books at 1:15 PM on June 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by one for the books at 1:15 PM on June 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
AMERICA FIRST POLICIES, the pro-Trump/Pence outside group that Pence has been raising for, is preparing a seven-figure ad buy against HELLER
Oh holy shit. Please, Br'er Fox, don't fling me in dat brier-patch!
posted by Talez at 1:16 PM on June 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Oh holy shit. Please, Br'er Fox, don't fling me in dat brier-patch!
posted by Talez at 1:16 PM on June 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Or be expected to work 60 and get paid for 40.
Employers can get away with a lot of shit but if their employees are making less than $20/hr they're getting paid overtime.
I don't know whether to laugh or to groan. OF COURSE employers try that shit all the time and it depends on how desperate the employees are. Sometimes it is couched in "You need to do this because the company is struggling and we can only pay your for 20 hours but expect 30 hours from you." Other times it comes in the guise of "You aren't getting your work done therefore you need to stay until it gets done. You will be working off the clock, of course." Now, if we had a Dept. of Labor that really looked out for working people then the brave soul who wanted to take it to the Labor Board might have a chance. Under Trump's Dept. of Labor? Don't make me laugh.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:19 PM on June 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
Employers can get away with a lot of shit but if their employees are making less than $20/hr they're getting paid overtime.
I don't know whether to laugh or to groan. OF COURSE employers try that shit all the time and it depends on how desperate the employees are. Sometimes it is couched in "You need to do this because the company is struggling and we can only pay your for 20 hours but expect 30 hours from you." Other times it comes in the guise of "You aren't getting your work done therefore you need to stay until it gets done. You will be working off the clock, of course." Now, if we had a Dept. of Labor that really looked out for working people then the brave soul who wanted to take it to the Labor Board might have a chance. Under Trump's Dept. of Labor? Don't make me laugh.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:19 PM on June 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
Employers can get away with a lot of shit but if their employees are making less than $20/hr they're getting paid overtime.
Sorry. Wrong.
Obama signed an executive order directing the Labor Department to require overtime pay for employees making less than $47,000 a year (approximately $23.50 per hour). However, the new regulation was challenged in court by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and other business organizations who won a ruling from a Texas judge.
The Obama administration planned to appeal the ruling but when Trump took over, the Labor Department decided to abandon the appeal.
The wage limit for overtime pay remains at $23,000 per year (approximately $11.50 an hour), far from your claim of $20.
posted by JackFlash at 1:22 PM on June 23, 2017 [30 favorites]
Sorry. Wrong.
Obama signed an executive order directing the Labor Department to require overtime pay for employees making less than $47,000 a year (approximately $23.50 per hour). However, the new regulation was challenged in court by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and other business organizations who won a ruling from a Texas judge.
The Obama administration planned to appeal the ruling but when Trump took over, the Labor Department decided to abandon the appeal.
The wage limit for overtime pay remains at $23,000 per year (approximately $11.50 an hour), far from your claim of $20.
posted by JackFlash at 1:22 PM on June 23, 2017 [30 favorites]
I'm probably in the minority here, but the Heller news just strikes me as confirmation that he's one of the two allowed "nays" that were probably selected in a closed-door GOP strategy session weeks or months ago. They all got together and decided who needed the cover for their re-election the most, and then the ones who didn't win were promised various kickbacks/carve-outs for them and their states. The idea that this is happening organically, which I'm seeing taken at least somewhat seriously by people who should know better, seems totally absurd to me.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:26 PM on June 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 1:26 PM on June 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
I thought they'd make Heller walk the plank on Trumpcare since voting NO is unlikely to save him if it passes. Perhaps they know something I don't.
posted by Justinian at 1:32 PM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 1:32 PM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Doesn't seem to me that employer provided insurance is all that safe. I know plenty of people who aren't allowed to work above the 32 hour/week threshold or whatever that number is because then the company would have to pay for their insurance. That's too expensive for the gazillions of small businesses out there.
posted by yoga at 3:32 PM
I've told this story before but it is a real life cautionary tale.
My neighbor developed an MS-like condition. She worked for the small town we live in and because her medical expenses started running into the hundreds of thousands the city manager urged the department she worked for to force her out because she was pushing the medical insurance premiums for everyone through the roof. They doubled her workload and began giving her very poor performance reviews. Since stress can aggravate the condition she chose to quit after a few months.
Fortunately her husband had a good job with good insurance. Unfortunately he got laid off just a year or so after she quit. They bought COBRA but between that and her deductibles and co-pays they were hemorrhaging money-- tens of thousands of dollars every month. After several months he did find another job and her treatments continued uninterrupted. Ten years later, she has regained almost all her mobility and stamina. She came very close to ending up in a wheelchair and without the treatments she undoubtedly would have died.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:33 PM on June 23, 2017 [48 favorites]
posted by yoga at 3:32 PM
I've told this story before but it is a real life cautionary tale.
My neighbor developed an MS-like condition. She worked for the small town we live in and because her medical expenses started running into the hundreds of thousands the city manager urged the department she worked for to force her out because she was pushing the medical insurance premiums for everyone through the roof. They doubled her workload and began giving her very poor performance reviews. Since stress can aggravate the condition she chose to quit after a few months.
Fortunately her husband had a good job with good insurance. Unfortunately he got laid off just a year or so after she quit. They bought COBRA but between that and her deductibles and co-pays they were hemorrhaging money-- tens of thousands of dollars every month. After several months he did find another job and her treatments continued uninterrupted. Ten years later, she has regained almost all her mobility and stamina. She came very close to ending up in a wheelchair and without the treatments she undoubtedly would have died.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:33 PM on June 23, 2017 [48 favorites]
I thought they'd make Heller walk the plank on Trumpcare since voting NO is unlikely to save him if it passes. Perhaps they know something I don't.
Setting him up as a maverick independent who puts Nevada first over the objections of rich out-of-state partisans would be the kind of thing that would save him though, right?
posted by zachlipton at 1:40 PM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
Setting him up as a maverick independent who puts Nevada first over the objections of rich out-of-state partisans would be the kind of thing that would save him though, right?
posted by zachlipton at 1:40 PM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
I just don't see McConnell making the Ryan-esque mistake of bringing the bill to the floor without having known weeks ahead of time who his ayes and nays would be.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:42 PM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by tonycpsu at 1:42 PM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
> I just don't see McConnell making the Ryan-esque mistake of bringing the bill to the floor without having known weeks ahead of time who his ayes and nays would be.
Agreed - and if Heller and Rand Paul are the No's, bring on your list of carve-outs for Murkowski, Collins, and Flake. (McCain will be very troubled by the process as he votes Yes, of course.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:44 PM on June 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
Agreed - and if Heller and Rand Paul are the No's, bring on your list of carve-outs for Murkowski, Collins, and Flake. (McCain will be very troubled by the process as he votes Yes, of course.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:44 PM on June 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
whatever the senate work-to-rule is, dems need to do that. now.
posted by j_curiouser at 1:49 PM on June 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by j_curiouser at 1:49 PM on June 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
McCain's carve-out is just going to be a buy one get one coupon for the early bird dinner at Old Country Buffet.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:49 PM on June 23, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 1:49 PM on June 23, 2017 [15 favorites]
I have heard the theory that McConnell just wants this done with so he and the Senate can move on. If he has the votes, fine if not..."oh no those bad Dems have obstructed our ability to get rid of ObamaCare. OK who is up for a nice, fat tax reform bill?"
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:51 PM on June 23, 2017
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:51 PM on June 23, 2017
David Anderson, Balloon Juice: PCP availability for 58% AV
In 2020 and beyond, under the Senate’s BCRA, the working poor will have a very hard time finding primary care providers (PCP) who will schedule appointments with them. Providers, rightly, fear bad debt from high deductible plans. They will discriminate on the ability to pay upfront. [...]posted by tonycpsu at 1:53 PM on June 23, 2017 [15 favorites]
Most payment reform models focus on delivering more primary care. The objective is to substitute cheap primary care for expensive specialist, inpatient hospital stays and post-acute rehabilitation. This is the concept behind value based insurance design. VBID is supposed to encourage the routine, low cost, regular maintenance of chronic conditions in outpatient or community settings instead of having people end up in the hospital for preventable admissions.
Yet, under the very understandable incentives of primary care physicians wanting to stay in business, access to primary care for the working poor who would have several thousand dollar deductibles that apply to all services, will be greatly restricted because of the cost barrier. If we want all members of our shared society to have decent health and decent lives, should want people to have easy and ready access to primary care. This bill creates strong business incentives to create barriers to primary care access.
> If we want all members of our shared society to have decent health and decent lives...
Ehhh. How about some tax cuts instead?
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:54 PM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Ehhh. How about some tax cuts instead?
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:54 PM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
the Heller news just strikes me as confirmation that he's one of the two allowed "nays" that were probably selected in a closed-door GOP strategy session weeks or months ago. They all got together and decided who needed the cover for their re-election the most, and then the ones who didn't win were promised various kickbacks/carve-outs for them and their states.
I agree, but if they're devoting resources against him anyway that clouds the picture from the RNC/McConnell being in charge standpoint, why give him a pass then attack him over it? Unless they were already targeting Heller as insufficiently Trump-loyal and planning to run a Trumpist against him, which I could see, as I believe they've already made similar threats against Flake. They probably expect to add several more Senators from Trump states in 2018, and accommodating dissent from Heller or anyone else isn't on the table.
I guess there's also the possibility that the Trump/Pence attack ads are unrelated to McConnell's legislative machinations.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:00 PM on June 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
I agree, but if they're devoting resources against him anyway that clouds the picture from the RNC/McConnell being in charge standpoint, why give him a pass then attack him over it? Unless they were already targeting Heller as insufficiently Trump-loyal and planning to run a Trumpist against him, which I could see, as I believe they've already made similar threats against Flake. They probably expect to add several more Senators from Trump states in 2018, and accommodating dissent from Heller or anyone else isn't on the table.
I guess there's also the possibility that the Trump/Pence attack ads are unrelated to McConnell's legislative machinations.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:00 PM on June 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
I have heard the theory that McConnell just wants this done with so he and the Senate can move on. If he has the votes, fine if not..."oh no those bad Dems have obstructed our ability to get rid of ObamaCare. OK who is up for a nice, fat tax reform bill?"
As I understand it, they need the Medicaid savings to get Tax Reform through the CBO (and they'll do it via a second reconciliation process (normally you get one per budget) by pulling the next budget year process forward.
posted by notyou at 2:02 PM on June 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
As I understand it, they need the Medicaid savings to get Tax Reform through the CBO (and they'll do it via a second reconciliation process (normally you get one per budget) by pulling the next budget year process forward.
posted by notyou at 2:02 PM on June 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Hey remember when the Trump fired the WH chief usher, the first female to hold that job?
Melania just hired Timothy Harlketh who is currently an employee at Trump International Hotel in D.C.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:03 PM on June 23, 2017 [28 favorites]
Melania just hired Timothy Harlketh who is currently an employee at Trump International Hotel in D.C.
White House ushers are on duty 24/7, taking care of the first family’s needs and overseeing the staff, including chefs, florists, maids, butlers, chefs, carpenters and other workers who take care of the presidential residence.and there were some people who thought that perhaps DJT did not like the idea of being in such close contact with a black female. WH Ushers in the past have always been people trained up from the ranks and have served very long terms.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:03 PM on June 23, 2017 [28 favorites]
So... Heller and who for the no votes? Both Collins and Murkowski seem like they want to be NO votes but you only get one of them if Heller is a no.
I'm not holding my breath. They'll put in a dummy amendment that does nothing called the "saving Medicaid for Maine!" amendment and Collins will declare MISSION ACCOMPLISHED or something.
posted by Justinian at 2:11 PM on June 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm not holding my breath. They'll put in a dummy amendment that does nothing called the "saving Medicaid for Maine!" amendment and Collins will declare MISSION ACCOMPLISHED or something.
posted by Justinian at 2:11 PM on June 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
I really think Paul will vote no, if nothing else to spite McConnell. And also because of his own special brand of bugshit crazy. So there's only one magic ticket to be had, maybe this is Heller trying to claim it if he wasn't promised it before.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:16 PM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:16 PM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
> Heller and who for the no votes?
I'm betting it's Heller and Rand Paul, to demonstrate the bill's impeccable bipartisan middle-of-the-road nature ("both country *and* western"). The rest - refer back to tonycpsu's cute names for carve-outs list, or add your own. Maybe the "Baked Alaska" will make an appearance? To address opioid abuse there?
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:17 PM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm betting it's Heller and Rand Paul, to demonstrate the bill's impeccable bipartisan middle-of-the-road nature ("both country *and* western"). The rest - refer back to tonycpsu's cute names for carve-outs list, or add your own. Maybe the "Baked Alaska" will make an appearance? To address opioid abuse there?
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:17 PM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Last night I was saying Rand Paul too... but that means both Murkowski and Collins have to vote yes. That would be an absolute betrayal of everyone in their respective states, of the sort that in a just world would result in Democratic sweeps and the Republican parties being cast into the abyss of history for generations there.
Which of course likely means they'll both vote yes, be re-elected, and the Democrats will somehow be blamed. Because black people or the gays or something.
posted by Justinian at 2:20 PM on June 23, 2017 [15 favorites]
Which of course likely means they'll both vote yes, be re-elected, and the Democrats will somehow be blamed. Because black people or the gays or something.
posted by Justinian at 2:20 PM on June 23, 2017 [15 favorites]
Actually, I didn't recall correctly: They need the tax cuts in AHCA/BCRA to reduce total revenue the CBO will calculate as part of tax reform (ignore the past tense and the conditional; the link is from last spring):
Here's why: The Congressional Budget Office estimates that government revenue will total $41.3 trillion over the next decade under current law. The latest version of the Republican plan to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act would have reduced that income by nearly $1 trillion, because it would have gotten rid of taxes connected to Obamacare.posted by notyou at 2:21 PM on June 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Right now, there are no calls to offset that lost money by finding other revenue sources — a task that is always politically charged. Instead, the now-dead GOP plan offset the reduction in revenue by cutting spending elsewhere.
Therefore, passing the GOP health care scheme would have reduced the amount of revenue the government needed from $41.3 trillion to $40.3 trillion — which is a much lower bar for Washington to clear.
I would be very surprised if Rand Paul voted for something that included refundable tax credits.
posted by melissasaurus at 2:23 PM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by melissasaurus at 2:23 PM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
It seems to me that either this passes or Paul, Heller, Murkowski, Collins, and one or two others ALL vote no. That way no one person is left holding the bag.
You can guess which way I'm betting. But there's no way this ends up with 3 no votes.
posted by Justinian at 2:32 PM on June 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
You can guess which way I'm betting. But there's no way this ends up with 3 no votes.
posted by Justinian at 2:32 PM on June 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
Actually, I didn't recall correctly: They need the tax cuts in AHCA/BCRA to reduce total revenue the CBO will calculate as part of tax reform (ignore the past tense and the conditional; the link is from last spring):
This is right, and they need the offsets to pass their tax reform under reconciliation, both so they need only 50 votes, and so the tax cuts are not subject to the 10 year sunset this time like the Bush cuts were, to do that they need to create the fiction in CBO land that their tax cut bill will be revenue neutral over the 10 year reconciliation window.
So game that out, they're cutting Medicaid and doing all this terrible shit in the ACHA/BCCA, not just to cut taxes on rich people for 10 years, no! that's not enough!, they could do that at any time with only 50 votes!, they want the cuts to be permanent this time, and that's why they're taking away healthcare from the poor and middle class.
It's actually more evil when you look at the complete picture.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:34 PM on June 23, 2017 [29 favorites]
This is right, and they need the offsets to pass their tax reform under reconciliation, both so they need only 50 votes, and so the tax cuts are not subject to the 10 year sunset this time like the Bush cuts were, to do that they need to create the fiction in CBO land that their tax cut bill will be revenue neutral over the 10 year reconciliation window.
So game that out, they're cutting Medicaid and doing all this terrible shit in the ACHA/BCCA, not just to cut taxes on rich people for 10 years, no! that's not enough!, they could do that at any time with only 50 votes!, they want the cuts to be permanent this time, and that's why they're taking away healthcare from the poor and middle class.
It's actually more evil when you look at the complete picture.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:34 PM on June 23, 2017 [29 favorites]
WH Ushers in the past have always been people trained up from the ranks and have served very long terms.
So this basically means that the entire domestic staff of the WHite House, if they didn't already hate Trump, do now for jumping the established seniority system? I assume there are a million little, non-obvious ways they can make the administration miserable that they haven't already implemented.
posted by jackbishop at 2:35 PM on June 23, 2017 [13 favorites]
So this basically means that the entire domestic staff of the WHite House, if they didn't already hate Trump, do now for jumping the established seniority system? I assume there are a million little, non-obvious ways they can make the administration miserable that they haven't already implemented.
posted by jackbishop at 2:35 PM on June 23, 2017 [13 favorites]
IF this bullshit passes the second there is a Democratic congress and president they should immediately replace the old tax rates on the wealthy +1% as a big fuck you.
posted by Justinian at 2:35 PM on June 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 2:35 PM on June 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
I assume there are a million little, non-obvious ways they can make the administration miserable that they haven't already implemented.
Medium-rare steaks? Tofu meatloaf? One-ply toilet paper? I'm sure the wheels are already spinning.
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:41 PM on June 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Medium-rare steaks? Tofu meatloaf? One-ply toilet paper? I'm sure the wheels are already spinning.
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:41 PM on June 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Rand Paul Opposes Healthcare Bill, Says He Has A More PERManent Solution
“When I fix a problem, I fix it permanently, and that’s why everyone calls me The Perm,” claimed senator Rand Paul as he stood cooly behind a podium patting and shaping his hair.
“Some slick politicians may try and brush aside the problems this nation’s healthcare faces with some sort of shiny switchblade comb. However, what we really need is some time for my solution to set in. At the very least avoid washing it for 24-48 hours,”
[fake, local Onion knockoff site]
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:42 PM on June 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
“When I fix a problem, I fix it permanently, and that’s why everyone calls me The Perm,” claimed senator Rand Paul as he stood cooly behind a podium patting and shaping his hair.
“Some slick politicians may try and brush aside the problems this nation’s healthcare faces with some sort of shiny switchblade comb. However, what we really need is some time for my solution to set in. At the very least avoid washing it for 24-48 hours,”
[fake, local Onion knockoff site]
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:42 PM on June 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
And by old tax rates, we're talking Make America Great Again with Eisenhower-level taxation, none of this newfangled '90s Clintonism.
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:42 PM on June 23, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:42 PM on June 23, 2017 [19 favorites]
the second there is a Democratic congress
Yep, there's yer problem.
posted by petebest at 2:47 PM on June 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
Yep, there's yer problem.
posted by petebest at 2:47 PM on June 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
It's too bad modern Republicans don't appreciate the 50% top marginal tax rate that Reagan worked so hard to pass in 1981.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 2:48 PM on June 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Huffy Puffy at 2:48 PM on June 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Josh Marshall, TPM: “In This Form”
But here’s the key. Heller says he cannot support the bill “in this form.” But there is no plausible version of this bill that won’t take insurance away from at least 20 million people, bring back the nightmare of preexisting condition exclusions, lifetime limits and all the rest. Anything else simply isn’t plausible. So by saying he won’t support the bill “in this form” Heller is saying, as clear as day, that his vote is gettable in exchange for minor or cosmetic changes. [...]posted by tonycpsu at 2:53 PM on June 23, 2017 [24 favorites]
Does this mean it’s hopeless? Not at all. But see Heller right now as someone who’s trying to trick you. When he really opposes this bill it will be obvious. This isn’t opposing. It’s a bid for a few morsels before he says yes.
Fellow Arizonans: Of course you already know to call McCain and Flake's offices. If you want to go the extra mile, call Governor Ducey's office as well. McCain will be meeting with him to discuss the bill. 53% of Arizona births are paid for by Medicaid. Prenatal care saves lives. McCain needs to be getting an earful from all directions, and the governor's office is collecting comments.
posted by compartment at 2:58 PM on June 23, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by compartment at 2:58 PM on June 23, 2017 [28 favorites]
WH Ushers in the past have always been people trained up from the ranks and have served very long terms
Not always. There have been, not counting the latest hire, ten White House Chief Ushers since the position was officially designated, four had shorter tenures than the previous Chief Usher Angella Reid. Before the position was officially recognized, there were four more Chief Ushers who all served shorter terms than Ms Reid.
Ms Reid came to the White House from a 25 year career in management at the Ritz-Carlton. She was preceded by Admiral Stephen Rochon who was a career Coast Guard officer. Before that, yes, the Chief Usher usually had experience working as the Assistant Usher, with a career beforehand in military or law enforcement being the path to that appointment. Since both people of color and women had been excluded from those careers, appointments of both Ms Reid and Adm Rochon were notable. By comparison, the new usher's resume is pretty thin but that's what we get when Trump hires only the "best" people.
posted by peeedro at 3:15 PM on June 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Not always. There have been, not counting the latest hire, ten White House Chief Ushers since the position was officially designated, four had shorter tenures than the previous Chief Usher Angella Reid. Before the position was officially recognized, there were four more Chief Ushers who all served shorter terms than Ms Reid.
Ms Reid came to the White House from a 25 year career in management at the Ritz-Carlton. She was preceded by Admiral Stephen Rochon who was a career Coast Guard officer. Before that, yes, the Chief Usher usually had experience working as the Assistant Usher, with a career beforehand in military or law enforcement being the path to that appointment. Since both people of color and women had been excluded from those careers, appointments of both Ms Reid and Adm Rochon were notable. By comparison, the new usher's resume is pretty thin but that's what we get when Trump hires only the "best" people.
posted by peeedro at 3:15 PM on June 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
I got a busy signal from the number for Sen. Burr (R-NC) all afternoon, which is good, I guess
posted by thelonius at 3:16 PM on June 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 3:16 PM on June 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
klarck: emptywheel does some interesting meta-reporting on the WaPo story.
What's this all mean? I'm having a hard time understanding what they're implying in that link.
posted by gucci mane at 3:20 PM on June 23, 2017
What's this all mean? I'm having a hard time understanding what they're implying in that link.
posted by gucci mane at 3:20 PM on June 23, 2017
Either Timothy Harlketh is a Russian spy or Melania is sleeping with him.
posted by Faint of Butt at 3:21 PM on June 23, 2017
posted by Faint of Butt at 3:21 PM on June 23, 2017
@thelonius - same here, which was a shame, as I was itching to use my line of 'So I've been a US citizen for about…an hour, and here's why I think this Bill is absolutely terrible!'
(Tillis' line went straight to an answerphone, but I did leave a similar message for his staffers!)
posted by carsondial at 3:23 PM on June 23, 2017 [23 favorites]
(Tillis' line went straight to an answerphone, but I did leave a similar message for his staffers!)
posted by carsondial at 3:23 PM on June 23, 2017 [23 favorites]
Either Timothy Harlketh is a Russian spy or Melania is sleeping with him.
Почему не оба?
posted by kirkaracha at 3:34 PM on June 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
Melania just hired Timothy Harlketh who is currently an employee at Trump International Hotel in D.C.
Either Timothy Harlketh is a Russian spy or Melania is sleeping with him.
Anagram: "A Hotel Rhythm Kit." I rest my case.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:42 PM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
Either Timothy Harlketh is a Russian spy or Melania is sleeping with him.
Anagram: "A Hotel Rhythm Kit." I rest my case.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:42 PM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
welcome aboard, carsondial!
posted by thelonius at 3:47 PM on June 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 3:47 PM on June 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
So after a no-cameras-allowed press briefing, Spicer is doing his second on-camera interview with Fox News of the day. I guess we're going full state propaganda, although much earlier than I thought.
posted by bluecore at 3:55 PM on June 23, 2017 [33 favorites]
posted by bluecore at 3:55 PM on June 23, 2017 [33 favorites]
[fake, local Onion knockoff site]
This is good stuff, though
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:01 PM on June 23, 2017
This is good stuff, though
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:01 PM on June 23, 2017
I guess we're going full state propaganda, although much earlier than I thought.
From Vox, On Fox News, the first rule of the Senate health care bill is not to talk about it:
posted by peeedro at 4:05 PM on June 23, 2017 [22 favorites]
From Vox, On Fox News, the first rule of the Senate health care bill is not to talk about it:
How do you defend an effort like the Senate’s new health care bill, which neither repeals nor replaces Obamacare, but merely loots it to deliver tax breaks to the rich? By the president’s own standards, the bill fails to deliver: There would be higher, not lower premiums, and cuts to Medicaid. Instead of “insurance for everybody” there would be insurance for millions of fewer Americans — many of them the same people who elected the president.And if you want to see the segment on Fox mentioned in the article where they mock liberals for caring about healthcare for the elderly and children with cancer: The Five Hosts Joke About Kids ‘Dying From Cancer’ During Health Care Debate.
So how do you spin a bill that seems un-spinnable? The answer, if you’re Fox News, is that you don’t. You deflect, you distract, and if necessary, you bend the truth. Above all, you hope that people care more about the politics than the policy.
posted by peeedro at 4:05 PM on June 23, 2017 [22 favorites]
KFF built an interactive to compare ACA and BCRA exchange premiums. A 60 year old making $55K/year in Alsaka would go from paying 10% of their income for in premiums to 70%. They make some assumptions I'm not so certain about (for example, they don't model any premium increase due to the lack of the individual mandate), but it gives you an idea of what this would do. Middle income millenials could come out ahead in some states, but we'll grow up eventually, and this is a cruel cruel law if you're 60 and don't have employer-sponsored care.
NBC News: Trump White House Has Taken Little Action To Stop Next Election Hack
posted by zachlipton at 4:08 PM on June 23, 2017 [38 favorites]
NBC News: Trump White House Has Taken Little Action To Stop Next Election Hack
According to recent Congressional testimony, Trump has shown no interest in the question of how to prevent future election interference by Russia or another foreign power. Former FBI Director James Comey told senators that Trump never asked him about how to stop a future Russian election cyber attack, and Attorney General Jeff Sessions, who sits on the National Security Council, testified that he has not received a classified briefing on Russian election interference.And if you'll forgive the self-indulgence of this, I'm overly proud of this tweet: "Louise Mensch’s account should be like the shared Sweeden one. A different conspiracy theorist should get to take it over every week."
Dozens of state officials told NBC News they have received little direction from Washington about election security.
White House spokesman Sean Spicer said this week he had never addressed the matter with Trump.
That apparent top-level indifference, coupled with a failure to fill key jobs at the Department of Homeland Security and other agencies, has resulted in a government paralyzed by inaction when it comes to protecting the next election, experts and government officials told NBC News.
posted by zachlipton at 4:08 PM on June 23, 2017 [38 favorites]
> whatever the senate work-to-rule is, dems need to do that. now.
for reals though the senate democrats need to make clear that there will henceforth always be a democrat present on the senate floor, tasked with denying unanimous consent to literally any motion.
(are there any other procedural fuckeries as effective as denying unanimous consent? is denying unanimous consent as effective as I think it is? in my mind, one cranky senator could force votes on literally anything done by the senate, up to and including allowing bathroom breaks.)
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:23 PM on June 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
for reals though the senate democrats need to make clear that there will henceforth always be a democrat present on the senate floor, tasked with denying unanimous consent to literally any motion.
(are there any other procedural fuckeries as effective as denying unanimous consent? is denying unanimous consent as effective as I think it is? in my mind, one cranky senator could force votes on literally anything done by the senate, up to and including allowing bathroom breaks.)
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:23 PM on June 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
As a mystery writer, I have this take on the Trump driving over the golf course green video. The clues.
#1. Trump drives cart across the green.
#2. Trump recognizes he is being taped and drives over to the people.
#3. Trump declares that he has had a good day but that he did badly on the hole, as though he had to explain his performance on that hole.
What happened. Trump believes the people saw that he was doing badly and were taping him. The only way in which the people grabbing the video could have seen that Trump was doing badly, would be in his performance on the green. Trump was by far more afraid of someone showing him do badly on a golf hole than being seen driving over a green.
Not having Russian prostitutes available to urinate, Trump was taking out revenge against the green.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 4:28 PM on June 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
#1. Trump drives cart across the green.
#2. Trump recognizes he is being taped and drives over to the people.
#3. Trump declares that he has had a good day but that he did badly on the hole, as though he had to explain his performance on that hole.
What happened. Trump believes the people saw that he was doing badly and were taping him. The only way in which the people grabbing the video could have seen that Trump was doing badly, would be in his performance on the green. Trump was by far more afraid of someone showing him do badly on a golf hole than being seen driving over a green.
Not having Russian prostitutes available to urinate, Trump was taking out revenge against the green.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 4:28 PM on June 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
White House spin: Trump drove the green on a par four!
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 4:29 PM on June 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 4:29 PM on June 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
is denying unanimous consent as effective as I think it is?
Yes and no, they could force 30 hour debates on all bills and amendments, but ultimately it's only a delaying tactic. Right now, they should be doing it because getting to the recess without a Trumpcare vote is critical, the longer the Senate bill is out there the more time for opposition and backlash to build.
There's a general case for doing it longer than that, every day eaten up is a day without terrible shit happening, which I thought they should've done for nominations too, but now that the Trump admin is seemingly done nominating anyone for anything, I'm not sure delaying the Russia/other scandals hearings is worth it beyond this narrow case.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:32 PM on June 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
Yes and no, they could force 30 hour debates on all bills and amendments, but ultimately it's only a delaying tactic. Right now, they should be doing it because getting to the recess without a Trumpcare vote is critical, the longer the Senate bill is out there the more time for opposition and backlash to build.
There's a general case for doing it longer than that, every day eaten up is a day without terrible shit happening, which I thought they should've done for nominations too, but now that the Trump admin is seemingly done nominating anyone for anything, I'm not sure delaying the Russia/other scandals hearings is worth it beyond this narrow case.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:32 PM on June 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
Isn't he universally acknowledged to be a bit shit at golf and an utter cheat?
posted by Artw at 4:33 PM on June 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 4:33 PM on June 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
So after a no-cameras-allowed press briefing, Spicer
@Jim Acosta So sketchy to not have cameras at WH briefing. So CNN sent sketch artist to capture the moment.
Images
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:37 PM on June 23, 2017 [27 favorites]
@Jim Acosta So sketchy to not have cameras at WH briefing. So CNN sent sketch artist to capture the moment.
Images
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:37 PM on June 23, 2017 [27 favorites]
I'm not sure what this image is from, maybe Trump's facebook page? There's a nice photo of Trump from the Iowa rally with the sub-heading: And we are putting our minors back to work...
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:44 PM on June 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:44 PM on June 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
that's a little in-joke for his buddy Jeff Epstein
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:47 PM on June 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:47 PM on June 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
So this basically means that the entire domestic staff of the WHite House, if they didn't already hate Trump, do now for jumping the established seniority system? I assume there are a million little, non-obvious ways they can make the administration miserable that they haven't already implemented.
oh lord so I have this wonderful fantasy, this recurring daydream I go to whenever I just want to scream, and this is it: Trump getting pied in the face on camera. Whipped cream matting down his hair. Sliding down his face. Dripping onto his tie. That stupid, gobsmacked face of his, because this is the one thing he's not expecting to happen - then the rage. Oh, the rage, the rage. But what does he do? What does anyone do? Does the secret service take me down for pie-ing the president? Do I get arrested? interrogated? Do they test the cream for some kind of assassination attempt? Does Paul Ryan condemn my hateful violence? Does Trump start mentioning me at every campaign rally? Do I get death threats? Do I go on talk shows? What kind of world do we live in when Donald Trump, president of the country, gets pied on camera like a clown?
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 4:51 PM on June 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
oh lord so I have this wonderful fantasy, this recurring daydream I go to whenever I just want to scream, and this is it: Trump getting pied in the face on camera. Whipped cream matting down his hair. Sliding down his face. Dripping onto his tie. That stupid, gobsmacked face of his, because this is the one thing he's not expecting to happen - then the rage. Oh, the rage, the rage. But what does he do? What does anyone do? Does the secret service take me down for pie-ing the president? Do I get arrested? interrogated? Do they test the cream for some kind of assassination attempt? Does Paul Ryan condemn my hateful violence? Does Trump start mentioning me at every campaign rally? Do I get death threats? Do I go on talk shows? What kind of world do we live in when Donald Trump, president of the country, gets pied on camera like a clown?
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 4:51 PM on June 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
Yes, it is from a video just put up on his facebook page. When I see these egregious typos I always wonder if someone on his staff is being passive-aggressive; just sabotaging the message in an underhanded way.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:52 PM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:52 PM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Those drawings, they make Spicer look professional. I was hoping for fangs and wavy stink lines.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 4:54 PM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 4:54 PM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
@Jim Acosta So sketchy to not have cameras at WH briefing. So CNN sent sketch artist to capture the moment.
@hodgman: stupid. turn the cameras on. get thrown out. do it again the next time. and again. THAT is the story. not your dumb, cowardly life hack.
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:55 PM on June 23, 2017 [75 favorites]
@hodgman: stupid. turn the cameras on. get thrown out. do it again the next time. and again. THAT is the story. not your dumb, cowardly life hack.
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:55 PM on June 23, 2017 [75 favorites]
Someone suggested sending cartoon artists to the briefings and putting their work on cable news.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:00 PM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:00 PM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Wake me up when we're to the point where Spicer briefs, a professional captioner transcribes it, the captions are transmitted to Melissa McCarthy, who live reads, which gets broadcast on the air.
I did adore darth's transformation of the sketch artist's work though.
posted by zachlipton at 5:08 PM on June 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
I did adore darth's transformation of the sketch artist's work though.
posted by zachlipton at 5:08 PM on June 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
Well, the court did rule that they're official communications...
White House uses Trump tweet in its official response to Comey tapes request
White House uses Trump tweet in its official response to Comey tapes request
The White House copied and pasted President Donald Trump’s day-old tweet Friday in its written response to a House committee’s bipartisan request for any recordings of Trump’s conversations with former FBI Director James Comey.posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 5:10 PM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
In a two-paragraph letter from legislative director Marc Short to the House Intelligence Committee leaders, the White House simply quoted Trump’s contention that he has “no idea” whether any tapes of his meetings with Comey exist.
So when will there be a lawsuit saying he can't delete any tweets (presidential records), or block other users (first amendment issues)?
posted by phliar at 5:13 PM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by phliar at 5:13 PM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Heller may get some bullshit amendment and cave, but he's already done us a big favor. Everybody should be repeating "Even Republicans say this is terrible and this is why."
@BenjySarlin
It's not just that Heller is making clear his opposition, he's also validating all the main Democratic attacks on the bill
posted by chris24 at 5:15 PM on June 23, 2017 [17 favorites]
@BenjySarlin
It's not just that Heller is making clear his opposition, he's also validating all the main Democratic attacks on the bill
posted by chris24 at 5:15 PM on June 23, 2017 [17 favorites]
So, if Russia can hack a US election, that doesn't just mean we're vulnerable to Russia in the next election. It essentially becomes "game on" in a world-wide hack-o-rama, like gaming a poorly-designed internet poll. Maybe we'll have a Dem bitcoin enthusiast for a president next.
posted by ctmf at 5:26 PM on June 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by ctmf at 5:26 PM on June 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
In an effort to make sense of the world, I recognize that I often try to look at things I'm familiar with in order to try to wrap my brain around things that confuse me. This whole "Republican voters vote this way but Democratic voters vote this way" thing is a little baffling to me. However, I think there's something I am familiar with that helps me make some sense of it.
I had an avowed socialist theatre professor back in college. He was a firm believer in the power of art to create social change for the betterment of all humanity. I have a million great things to say about him as an educator, a person and an artist. When it came time to select shows, though, he would inevitably pick didactic pieces that had strong social messages but that we couldn't get people to come and see. I was working PR and I'd reach out to sympathetic labor unions, socialist groups, student groups that focused on politics, and a dozen other like-minded organizations. I'd get a lot of "great, we're so glad you're doing this" responses that would not result in anyone coming to see the show, even when we offered blocks of free tickets. We literally couldn't give away seats to a theatre experience that these sympathetic organizations would love. I mean, the shows were really done quite well in addition to being socially meaningful. The people who did come to see them often left energized and ready to do work. When I'd follow up with the groups I contacted, they'd say "well, our membership thinks it sounds boring - are you doing any musicals soon?"
But, yeah, I'd promote the shows emphasizing the politics of the show. I'd promote them hiding the politics. I'd promote them pitching the story or a salacious angle or a well known actor or really anything that might get butts in seats. Nothing nothing nothing.
Then we'd do a shitty, half-assed production of "A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Forum" or some similar nonsense and it would fill up before it even opened. I wouldn't even have to reach out to anyone. Sending out the title would be enough.
Our professor objected to musicals on a very basic "emotional manipulation is bad" level. He'd never stage one - he was even suspicious of Brecht's musical work.
So, you had this professor who really wanted to make the world a better place who couldn't get audiences to see his excellent shows. He really believed that if we could just find the right way of getting the word out, the workers of the world would flock to our theatre. The thing is, many of them did flock to our theatre - when we did musicals.
I feel like this is maybe similar to critiques of the way the two major US parties connect with certain chunks of voters? The Democrats, in general, have the best interest of the country and strong, well thought out policy ideas and we believe if that if we can just get people to understand intellectually that our policies benefit them, of course they'll vote for us (and this works for a section of voters). The Republicans are corporate tools who don't think at all right now and they use appeal to emotion (and cheating) almost exclusive to woo voters (and this works for a section of voters).
Anyhow, this is how my brain is working to comprehend exactly what is happening out there. Perhaps we need many more candidates in all positions who are trained in appeal to emotion but who don't sacrifice the truth to do this.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:28 PM on June 23, 2017 [23 favorites]
I had an avowed socialist theatre professor back in college. He was a firm believer in the power of art to create social change for the betterment of all humanity. I have a million great things to say about him as an educator, a person and an artist. When it came time to select shows, though, he would inevitably pick didactic pieces that had strong social messages but that we couldn't get people to come and see. I was working PR and I'd reach out to sympathetic labor unions, socialist groups, student groups that focused on politics, and a dozen other like-minded organizations. I'd get a lot of "great, we're so glad you're doing this" responses that would not result in anyone coming to see the show, even when we offered blocks of free tickets. We literally couldn't give away seats to a theatre experience that these sympathetic organizations would love. I mean, the shows were really done quite well in addition to being socially meaningful. The people who did come to see them often left energized and ready to do work. When I'd follow up with the groups I contacted, they'd say "well, our membership thinks it sounds boring - are you doing any musicals soon?"
But, yeah, I'd promote the shows emphasizing the politics of the show. I'd promote them hiding the politics. I'd promote them pitching the story or a salacious angle or a well known actor or really anything that might get butts in seats. Nothing nothing nothing.
Then we'd do a shitty, half-assed production of "A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Forum" or some similar nonsense and it would fill up before it even opened. I wouldn't even have to reach out to anyone. Sending out the title would be enough.
Our professor objected to musicals on a very basic "emotional manipulation is bad" level. He'd never stage one - he was even suspicious of Brecht's musical work.
So, you had this professor who really wanted to make the world a better place who couldn't get audiences to see his excellent shows. He really believed that if we could just find the right way of getting the word out, the workers of the world would flock to our theatre. The thing is, many of them did flock to our theatre - when we did musicals.
I feel like this is maybe similar to critiques of the way the two major US parties connect with certain chunks of voters? The Democrats, in general, have the best interest of the country and strong, well thought out policy ideas and we believe if that if we can just get people to understand intellectually that our policies benefit them, of course they'll vote for us (and this works for a section of voters). The Republicans are corporate tools who don't think at all right now and they use appeal to emotion (and cheating) almost exclusive to woo voters (and this works for a section of voters).
Anyhow, this is how my brain is working to comprehend exactly what is happening out there. Perhaps we need many more candidates in all positions who are trained in appeal to emotion but who don't sacrifice the truth to do this.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:28 PM on June 23, 2017 [23 favorites]
is it time to just let twitch.tv run the country
posted by prize bull octorok at 5:28 PM on June 23, 2017
posted by prize bull octorok at 5:28 PM on June 23, 2017
Twitch Plays: Global Thermonuclear War!
posted by Justinian at 5:31 PM on June 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 5:31 PM on June 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
VOX Once again, 13 men wrote a bill that’s bad for women’s health
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:37 PM on June 23, 2017 [50 favorites]
If you search the latest draft of the bill and its amendments for language about Planned Parenthood, you won’t find it. But provisions about “prohibited entities” are basically attempts to defund Planned Parenthood.One statistic VOX uses that I had not seen yet is 2/3 of all unplanned births are covered by Medicaid. Also, 3/4s of the public dollars spent on family planning are Medicaid dollars, and in 17 states, Medicaid programs also cover abortion with state dollars. Taking away Medicaid means inevitably that not only will more women get pregnant but they will then not be able to afford prenatal care nor professionally-assisted childbirth nor follow-up well checks for mother and baby. Astonishing to think this is what the Republicans want for the women of this country.
In essence, these sections of the bill say groups that are primarily engaged in family planning services, reproductive health, and providing abortions (other than abortions that are medically necessary or responses to cases of incest or rape) — and whose Medicaid receipts exceeded $350 million in fiscal year 2014 — are barred from receiving federal dollars through several health programs, most importantly Medicaid, for one year.
One group obviously meets that description: Planned Parenthood.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:37 PM on June 23, 2017 [50 favorites]
It seems more and more likely that the most long lasting legacy of the Obama administration will be the fallout from Russian interference in the election process.
posted by bardophile at 5:39 PM on June 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by bardophile at 5:39 PM on June 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Twitch Plays: Global Thermonuclear War!
SEATTLE!
--
I feel like this is maybe similar to critiques of the way the two major US parties connect with certain chunks of voters? The Democrats, in general, have the best interest of the country and strong, well thought out policy ideas and we believe if that if we can just get people to understand intellectually that our policies benefit them, of course they'll vote for us (and this works for a section of voters). The Republicans are corporate tools who don't think at all right now and they use appeal to emotion (and cheating) almost exclusive to woo voters (and this works for a section of voters).
This. Exactly this. This is what I meant waaaaay up thread when I said that Democrats need to stop trying to win solely on the merits of their grand ideas. The Democrats, like your Professor, need to stage some musicals, as distasteful as they may be.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 5:39 PM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
SEATTLE!
--
I feel like this is maybe similar to critiques of the way the two major US parties connect with certain chunks of voters? The Democrats, in general, have the best interest of the country and strong, well thought out policy ideas and we believe if that if we can just get people to understand intellectually that our policies benefit them, of course they'll vote for us (and this works for a section of voters). The Republicans are corporate tools who don't think at all right now and they use appeal to emotion (and cheating) almost exclusive to woo voters (and this works for a section of voters).
This. Exactly this. This is what I meant waaaaay up thread when I said that Democrats need to stop trying to win solely on the merits of their grand ideas. The Democrats, like your Professor, need to stage some musicals, as distasteful as they may be.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 5:39 PM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
It essentially becomes "game on" in a world-wide hack-o-rama, like gaming a poorly-designed internet poll. Maybe we'll have a Dem bitcoin enthusiast for a president next.
Do you want President McPresidentface? Because that's how you get President McPresidentface.
posted by peeedro at 5:40 PM on June 23, 2017 [15 favorites]
Do you want President McPresidentface? Because that's how you get President McPresidentface.
posted by peeedro at 5:40 PM on June 23, 2017 [15 favorites]
Joey Michaels, I read your comment immediately after reading Ben Brantley's review of 1984, which just opened on Broadway, which, to grossly oversimplify, appears to mix political messages and shock value, and now my head is spinning a bit.
posted by zachlipton at 5:51 PM on June 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 5:51 PM on June 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Do you want President McPresidentface? Because that's how you get President McPresidentface.
I will reserve judgement until I see McPresidentface's policy platform.
posted by nubs at 5:53 PM on June 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
I will reserve judgement until I see McPresidentface's policy platform.
posted by nubs at 5:53 PM on June 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
So Trump, who is really doing nothing about it, is acknowledging Russian meddling? I thought it was an excuse the Democrats made up for losing? It's your job now, buddy.
posted by zachlipton at 5:54 PM on June 23, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 5:54 PM on June 23, 2017 [28 favorites]
Do you want President McPresidentface? Because that's how you get President McPresidentface.
I feel like this is what we have now.
posted by dis_integration at 5:56 PM on June 23, 2017 [20 favorites]
I feel like this is what we have now.
posted by dis_integration at 5:56 PM on June 23, 2017 [20 favorites]
One group obviously meets that description: Planned Parenthood.
So I guess look forward to McConnell cribbing Trump's "no really it's not a Muslim ban it just happens to ban Muslims like we said it would" defense in the inevitable lawsuit protesting this very obvious bill of attainder.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:57 PM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
So I guess look forward to McConnell cribbing Trump's "no really it's not a Muslim ban it just happens to ban Muslims like we said it would" defense in the inevitable lawsuit protesting this very obvious bill of attainder.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:57 PM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
CNN sent sketch artist to capture the moment.
From the Twitter comments: Send in Ralph Steadman.
Yes, please!
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:03 PM on June 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
From the Twitter comments: Send in Ralph Steadman.
Yes, please!
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:03 PM on June 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
Steadman will have to do, since Giger and Beksinski are dead.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:06 PM on June 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:06 PM on June 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
California Democrats kill single-payer plan, blame Trump
posted by indubitable at 6:12 PM on June 23, 2017
posted by indubitable at 6:12 PM on June 23, 2017
Do you want President McPresidentface? Because that's how you get President McPresidentface.
Don't blame me, I voted for Vermin Supreme!
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:13 PM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
Don't blame me, I voted for Vermin Supreme!
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:13 PM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
White House uses Trump tweet in its official response to Comey tapes request
They are so stupid. A big part of the travel ban case is citing Trump's tweets, and the DOJ had to try and argue those were something other than official statements by the president. Then they go and blow that argument out of the water (not that the courts bought it anyway), but still, they're just pissing on the DOJ attorneys trying to defend this administration and they're too damn stupid to know they're stabbing their own ostensible agenda in the face.
Malevolence - 113,215
Incompetence - eleventy billion
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:14 PM on June 23, 2017 [19 favorites]
They are so stupid. A big part of the travel ban case is citing Trump's tweets, and the DOJ had to try and argue those were something other than official statements by the president. Then they go and blow that argument out of the water (not that the courts bought it anyway), but still, they're just pissing on the DOJ attorneys trying to defend this administration and they're too damn stupid to know they're stabbing their own ostensible agenda in the face.
Malevolence - 113,215
Incompetence - eleventy billion
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:14 PM on June 23, 2017 [19 favorites]
California Democrats kill single-payer plan, blame Trump
posted by Justinian at 6:17 PM on June 23, 2017 [13 favorites]
“Even senators who voted for SB 562 noted there are potentially fatal flaws in the bill, including the fact it does not address many serious issues, such as financing, delivery of care, cost controls, or the realities of needed action by the Trump Administration and voters to make SB 562 a genuine piece of legislation.”This is not wrong. I'm for single payer but the bill they were pushing was more of a wish list than a piece of real legislation.
posted by Justinian at 6:17 PM on June 23, 2017 [13 favorites]
This, Right Here, This is Where Obama Choked
posted by rabbitrabbit at 6:35 PM on June 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by rabbitrabbit at 6:35 PM on June 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
The question is what the Obama Asministration would have said had the Republican nominee been a Romney-type who wasn't running around claiming the election was rigged and raising fears of actual violence if he lost. I mean, yes, he choked while searching for the same utterly nonexistent bipartisanship he spent his entire administration hoping for, but go look back at the fear in some of our old threads from when Trump was questioning the legitimacy of the election and ask what impact Obama would have had if he said more then.
posted by zachlipton at 6:44 PM on June 23, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 6:44 PM on June 23, 2017 [17 favorites]
So Obama's administration tells the public that the Russians are hacking the election, and offers evidence (which some in the intelligence community weren't 100% behind, not to mention the Republicans), and then what? 62% of Republicans are "not very concerned" or "not concerned at all" with Russian collusion. That sounds like a disaster during an election.
posted by gucci mane at 6:45 PM on June 23, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by gucci mane at 6:45 PM on June 23, 2017 [18 favorites]
And like zachlipton said above me just now, you had a presidential candidate saying the election was potentially rigged against him, and you have people like Sean Hannity and Alex Jones talking about civil war to entirely right-wing audiences.
posted by gucci mane at 6:47 PM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by gucci mane at 6:47 PM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
The worst we had to lose came true anyway.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:47 PM on June 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:47 PM on June 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
As for hacking America's voting system, probably it's only something a state level actor can reasonably hope to accomplish. Even Russia wasn't able to hack the actual election system itself (or so it seems so far), and was limited to finding embarrassing things to leak, spearfishing election officials, and other sub-hacking the election machines themselves type activities.
Part of the reason for this is that the US doesn't have an election system, it has an insane mishmash of whatever systems each individual county decided to buy given their often really tiny budgets for elections.
Not so much security through obscurity, but security through no standardization at all. Rather than being able to hack a single entity, you'd have to hack thousands (literally) of county level entities.
The Russian hacking is still, I'd argue, basically on par with an act of conventional war. It was a blow aimed at one of our most vital and essential civic systems, and we still haven't really even found out how badly they hurt us.
I'm not a warmonger, but the US can't allow this to stand. Under Trump, of course, Putin can do anything he wants, but the next American President is going to have to take a very hard line to stop this shit. By which I mean first letting the world know that the US will equate hacking of that nature with an act of war, and will retaliate by cutting the offending nation off from the internet. Which should be well within America's capabilities, especially for a country like Russia which has only a fairly limited number of connections to the outside world.
Of course, all that assumes that we have elections and can oust Trump.
posted by sotonohito at 6:49 PM on June 23, 2017 [19 favorites]
Part of the reason for this is that the US doesn't have an election system, it has an insane mishmash of whatever systems each individual county decided to buy given their often really tiny budgets for elections.
Not so much security through obscurity, but security through no standardization at all. Rather than being able to hack a single entity, you'd have to hack thousands (literally) of county level entities.
The Russian hacking is still, I'd argue, basically on par with an act of conventional war. It was a blow aimed at one of our most vital and essential civic systems, and we still haven't really even found out how badly they hurt us.
I'm not a warmonger, but the US can't allow this to stand. Under Trump, of course, Putin can do anything he wants, but the next American President is going to have to take a very hard line to stop this shit. By which I mean first letting the world know that the US will equate hacking of that nature with an act of war, and will retaliate by cutting the offending nation off from the internet. Which should be well within America's capabilities, especially for a country like Russia which has only a fairly limited number of connections to the outside world.
Of course, all that assumes that we have elections and can oust Trump.
posted by sotonohito at 6:49 PM on June 23, 2017 [19 favorites]
California Democrats kill single-payer plan, blame Trump
“Even senators who voted for SB 562 noted there are potentially fatal flaws in the bill, including the fact it does not address many serious issues, such as financing, delivery of care, cost controls, or the realities of needed action by the Trump Administration and voters to make SB 562 a genuine piece of legislation.”
This is not wrong. I'm for single payer but the bill they were pushing was more of a wish list than a piece of real legislation.
The solution to a bad bill is to amend it. When the leadership unilaterally shelves it, that's not an effort to pass a better bill; that's an effort to kill it.
posted by chortly at 6:52 PM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
“Even senators who voted for SB 562 noted there are potentially fatal flaws in the bill, including the fact it does not address many serious issues, such as financing, delivery of care, cost controls, or the realities of needed action by the Trump Administration and voters to make SB 562 a genuine piece of legislation.”
This is not wrong. I'm for single payer but the bill they were pushing was more of a wish list than a piece of real legislation.
The solution to a bad bill is to amend it. When the leadership unilaterally shelves it, that's not an effort to pass a better bill; that's an effort to kill it.
posted by chortly at 6:52 PM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
> but go look back at the fear in some of our old threads from when Trump was questioning the legitimacy of the election and ask what impact Obama would have had if he said more then.
Fiat justitia ruat caelum. Pierce is right -- Obama choked, full stop. Howls of outrage from wingnuts, even the threat of violence... None of those excuses letting an election be stolen in part by a sustained campaign of sabotage by a hostile nation.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:52 PM on June 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
Fiat justitia ruat caelum. Pierce is right -- Obama choked, full stop. Howls of outrage from wingnuts, even the threat of violence... None of those excuses letting an election be stolen in part by a sustained campaign of sabotage by a hostile nation.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:52 PM on June 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
I still believe everybody hanging their hopes on reconciliation as a limiting factor on Republicans' rapacious greed is seeing a light at the end of the tunnel that's really a train heading the other way. McConnell has to be seriously considering putting the true nuclear option in play by either having Pence overrule the parliamentarian if she rules against them or just firing her outright & writing his own ruling supporting himself or finding some willing catspaw to write it for him. At that point the rest of the Senate Republicans are the only thing standing in his way.
posted by scalefree at 6:52 PM on June 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 6:52 PM on June 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
he choked while searching for the same utterly nonexistent bipartisanship he spent his entire administration hoping for
I love President Obama and have been a fan as long as almost everyone has, since his speech at the 2004 DNC [transcript].
There is not a black America and a white America and Latino America and Asian America — there's the United States of America.I mean, I loved that then, and I still do. He actually had the potential to unite a divided America, but the Republicans fucked him by deciding not to play ball before he was even sworn in. He should have learned that lesson by 2016.
Russians hacking the election is some James Bond type shit. We absolutely had a right to know.
When he gave that speech in 2004 he was still an Illinois state senator. Four years later he was elected president. And the speech was almost 13 years ago.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:59 PM on June 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
We spent so long contemplating Red Dawn scenarios, but when Russia actually attacked, we all fucking shrugged.
posted by zachlipton at 7:01 PM on June 23, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:01 PM on June 23, 2017 [34 favorites]
We spent so long contemplating Red Dawn scenarios, but when Russia actually attacked, we all fucking shrugged.
I didn't shrug; apparently, Obama shrugged for me.
posted by chortly at 7:08 PM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
I didn't shrug; apparently, Obama shrugged for me.
posted by chortly at 7:08 PM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
Wolvermehs!
posted by nubs at 7:10 PM on June 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by nubs at 7:10 PM on June 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
((Other) National Treasure, Charles) Pierce is right -- Obama choked, full stop.
I'm all about ragging on Obama for pipe-dream bi-partisan togetherness but he wasn't King or Caesar and he told Congress all about it. Mitch "Like Hell, But For Turds" McConnell condemned us to this timeline when he threatened to take this Russian attack as a partisan attack. (I . . . is that ironic, or - i think it's reality skipping)
Feds: WE HAVE TAPES OF PUTIN HIMSELF ORDERING THAT TRUMP BE ELECTED.
Congress: Meh
GA SoS Kemp: Tain't never happent *spit*
MSM: And down the stretch they come!! Hoo doggies ain't this fucked up!
--8 months later--
Feds: Still have the tapes. Heres a flash drive with 'em on there.
Congress: Wha-wha-whaaaaaaaaaaaaa?!?!??
GA SoS Kemp: Still say ain't happent. Youkin ask Handel'll look int'it. *grin* *spit*
MSM: Woweee gosh!! Ain't this a corker!!
/cut to reverse mortgage commercial
posted by petebest at 7:18 PM on June 23, 2017 [39 favorites]
I'm all about ragging on Obama for pipe-dream bi-partisan togetherness but he wasn't King or Caesar and he told Congress all about it. Mitch "Like Hell, But For Turds" McConnell condemned us to this timeline when he threatened to take this Russian attack as a partisan attack. (I . . . is that ironic, or - i think it's reality skipping)
Feds: WE HAVE TAPES OF PUTIN HIMSELF ORDERING THAT TRUMP BE ELECTED.
Congress: Meh
GA SoS Kemp: Tain't never happent *spit*
MSM: And down the stretch they come!! Hoo doggies ain't this fucked up!
--8 months later--
Feds: Still have the tapes. Heres a flash drive with 'em on there.
Congress: Wha-wha-whaaaaaaaaaaaaa?!?!??
GA SoS Kemp: Still say ain't happent. Youkin ask Handel'll look int'it. *grin* *spit*
MSM: Woweee gosh!! Ain't this a corker!!
/cut to reverse mortgage commercial
posted by petebest at 7:18 PM on June 23, 2017 [39 favorites]
@TopherSpiro: NEW: From us and Harvard researchers: the Senate bill could result in 18,000 to 28,000 deaths in 2026.
@HillaryClinton Retweeted Topher Spiro
Forget death panels. If Republicans pass this bill, they're the death party.
---
Not. Fucking. Around.
posted by chris24 at 7:19 PM on June 23, 2017 [72 favorites]
@HillaryClinton Retweeted Topher Spiro
Forget death panels. If Republicans pass this bill, they're the death party.
---
Not. Fucking. Around.
posted by chris24 at 7:19 PM on June 23, 2017 [72 favorites]
I'm all about ragging on Obama for pipe-dream bi-partisan togetherness but he wasn't King or Caesar and he told Congress all about it. Mitch "Like Hell, But For Turds" McConnell condemned us to this timeline when he threatened to take this Russian attack as a partisan attack.
Honestly. What would have happened if Obama had gone all public with the info? Republicans would have went nuclear on "Obama's Deep State" and all those damn elitist bastards trying to subvert the will of the people! It's disgusting but look around you. Do you have that much faith in your fellow citizens to process complex information?
posted by Glibpaxman at 7:24 PM on June 23, 2017 [24 favorites]
Honestly. What would have happened if Obama had gone all public with the info? Republicans would have went nuclear on "Obama's Deep State" and all those damn elitist bastards trying to subvert the will of the people! It's disgusting but look around you. Do you have that much faith in your fellow citizens to process complex information?
posted by Glibpaxman at 7:24 PM on June 23, 2017 [24 favorites]
Everyone talking about Obama's treatment of this as if Clinton hadn't been warning us about it the whole time.
Show me the marginal voter who chose Trump over Clinton but would have changed their mind because they'd take Obama at face value saying Putin was trying to sow chaos in our election. "Sitting President tries to smear opposition candidate with unfounded Russian allegations" is not going to play well with anyone who was on the fence in this election.
Unless Obama had video tape of Putin at an SSH terminal, no one who didn't already believe Clinton would take him seriously.
posted by 0xFCAF at 7:25 PM on June 23, 2017 [72 favorites]
Show me the marginal voter who chose Trump over Clinton but would have changed their mind because they'd take Obama at face value saying Putin was trying to sow chaos in our election. "Sitting President tries to smear opposition candidate with unfounded Russian allegations" is not going to play well with anyone who was on the fence in this election.
Unless Obama had video tape of Putin at an SSH terminal, no one who didn't already believe Clinton would take him seriously.
posted by 0xFCAF at 7:25 PM on June 23, 2017 [72 favorites]
Oh boy.
Maggie Haberman (@maggieNYT): "NEWS - Mike Pence and Charles Koch held a 45-minute meeting at Broadmoor in CO Springs, spox for Koch umbrella group confirms."
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:32 PM on June 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
Maggie Haberman (@maggieNYT): "NEWS - Mike Pence and Charles Koch held a 45-minute meeting at Broadmoor in CO Springs, spox for Koch umbrella group confirms."
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:32 PM on June 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
I mean, even if Obama comes out with the evidence and everyone believes him, then what?
Trump says "I don't condone election hacking. It's bad. I tell people all the time, don't hack elections, I don't hack elections, it's not, I don't do it and you shouldn't. Putin, I didn't tell him to, so he should stop, because he's a good guy and good guys don't hack elections. We should get some elections that can't be hacked because they're already rigged and very bad, but not hacking."
Now what? Someone changes their mind?
Try the reverse case. Let's say you found out October 28th that ISIS had been working 24/7 to try to get Clinton elected for some reason. Turns out ISIS had planted Kellyanne Conway to try to sink the Trump campaign because they thought Americans would see someone tell that many lies in a row and think the campaign was full of idiots. Clinton disavows it all, of course. Are you now going to vote for Trump instead as a response? The fuck? Of course not.
posted by 0xFCAF at 7:33 PM on June 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
Trump says "I don't condone election hacking. It's bad. I tell people all the time, don't hack elections, I don't hack elections, it's not, I don't do it and you shouldn't. Putin, I didn't tell him to, so he should stop, because he's a good guy and good guys don't hack elections. We should get some elections that can't be hacked because they're already rigged and very bad, but not hacking."
Now what? Someone changes their mind?
Try the reverse case. Let's say you found out October 28th that ISIS had been working 24/7 to try to get Clinton elected for some reason. Turns out ISIS had planted Kellyanne Conway to try to sink the Trump campaign because they thought Americans would see someone tell that many lies in a row and think the campaign was full of idiots. Clinton disavows it all, of course. Are you now going to vote for Trump instead as a response? The fuck? Of course not.
posted by 0xFCAF at 7:33 PM on June 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
What would have happened if Obama had gone all public with the info?
Worst case scenario, we'd be in the exact same situation we are now. Best case scenario, this timeline would be a fever dream. What's the argument, exactly?
posted by Behemoth at 7:34 PM on June 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
Worst case scenario, we'd be in the exact same situation we are now. Best case scenario, this timeline would be a fever dream. What's the argument, exactly?
posted by Behemoth at 7:34 PM on June 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
The article quotes, The intelligence captured Putin's specific instructions on the operation's audacious objectives — defeat or at least damage the Democratic nominee, Hillary Clinton, and help elect her opponent, Donald Trump.
So, okay the President can declassify anything, why didn't he release that? That moron trusted us to do the right thing anyway.
and i miss them soooo :,(
posted by petebest at 7:34 PM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
So, okay the President can declassify anything, why didn't he release that? That moron trusted us to do the right thing anyway.
and i miss them soooo :,(
posted by petebest at 7:34 PM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
I understand Obama's pre-election decision just like I understand Comey's pre-election decision. That doesn't make them the right decisions. Ask yourself, what possibly could have happened if they had made the right other decision which would be worse than what actually happened.
posted by Justinian at 7:40 PM on June 23, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 7:40 PM on June 23, 2017 [19 favorites]
Trump says "I don't condone election hacking. It's bad. I tell people all the time, don't hack elections, I don't hack elections, it's not, I don't do it and you shouldn't. Putin, I didn't tell him to, so he should stop,
He did condone and call for election-related hacking. By the Russians. In public. Apparently, this action wasn't a problem for vast hoards in this country. *sigh*
Always remember GOP == Groupies Of Putin.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 7:41 PM on June 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
He did condone and call for election-related hacking. By the Russians. In public. Apparently, this action wasn't a problem for vast hoards in this country. *sigh*
Always remember GOP == Groupies Of Putin.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 7:41 PM on June 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
Worst case scenario, we'd be in the exact same situation we are now
Worst case scenario, Democrats wreck their credibility and break the seal on the norm of "Sitting Presidents don't interfere with the election".
posted by 0xFCAF at 7:41 PM on June 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Worst case scenario, Democrats wreck their credibility and break the seal on the norm of "Sitting Presidents don't interfere with the election".
posted by 0xFCAF at 7:41 PM on June 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Maybe a better title for this post would have been Borgia on my mind.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:42 PM on June 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:42 PM on June 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
How many norms have been broken because he didn't do it, 0xFCAF?
posted by Justinian at 7:42 PM on June 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 7:42 PM on June 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
> Honestly. What would have happened if Obama had gone all public with the info? Republicans would have went nuclear on "Obama's Deep State" and all those damn elitist bastards trying to subvert the will of the people! It's disgusting but look around you. Do you have that much faith in your fellow citizens to process complex information?
The election hinged on such a small number of voters in just a few states that I do strongly believe it could have changed the outcome. Of course many Trumpists would have doubled down, but a deep dive into the beliefs of Trump voters shows that there are some persuadable deplorables that aren't Limbaugh listeners or Klansmen. Not enough to make me feel good about the fate of the country, but perhaps enough reluctant Trump voters who might have disliked Hillary, but wouldn't have been cool with Putin selecting the President. They didn't necessarily have to vote for Hillary -- it was enough to have them just not show up for Trump.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:47 PM on June 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
The election hinged on such a small number of voters in just a few states that I do strongly believe it could have changed the outcome. Of course many Trumpists would have doubled down, but a deep dive into the beliefs of Trump voters shows that there are some persuadable deplorables that aren't Limbaugh listeners or Klansmen. Not enough to make me feel good about the fate of the country, but perhaps enough reluctant Trump voters who might have disliked Hillary, but wouldn't have been cool with Putin selecting the President. They didn't necessarily have to vote for Hillary -- it was enough to have them just not show up for Trump.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:47 PM on June 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
Democrats wreck their credibility and break the seal on the norm of...
Ah yes, got to keep our powder dry so we can shoot ourselves if it gets, you know, "really bad."
posted by Behemoth at 7:48 PM on June 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
Ah yes, got to keep our powder dry so we can shoot ourselves if it gets, you know, "really bad."
posted by Behemoth at 7:48 PM on June 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
Break the seal on the norm? Like the seal on the norm that a sitting president gets to nominate a Supreme Court Justice? Or the norm that presidents don't hire their own family members? Or the norm that members of the Congress minority get responses to their requests for information or explanation?
posted by bardophile at 7:58 PM on June 23, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by bardophile at 7:58 PM on June 23, 2017 [30 favorites]
"It's OK if you're a Republican" is itself a norm at this point.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:59 PM on June 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 7:59 PM on June 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
If we break enough seals, does that unleash Trump's final form? What kind of boss mechanics does he have?
posted by MrVisible at 8:00 PM on June 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by MrVisible at 8:00 PM on June 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
Crazy Mike Lee just released a Capital Crazy statement against the Senate bill that makes no fucking sense if you understand what words mean.
It cuts taxes. It bails out insurance companies. It props up Obamacare through the next election. It lays out plans to slow Medicaid spending beginning in 2025, but that probably won’t happen. And it leaves in place the ham-fisted federal regulations that have driven up family health insurance premiums by 140 percent since Obamacare was implemented.
So uhh, have you read the bill? You know it makes all that stuff way worse right?
Far short of “repeal,” the Senate bill keeps the Democrats’ broken system intact, just with less spending on the poor to pay for corporate bailouts and tax cuts. A cynic might say that the BCRA is less a Republican health care bill than a caricature of a Republican health care bill.
Uhh, yes? Are you saying that's a bad thing now? I'm getting mixed messages. Fuck it there's no way to read this as actually commenting on a health bill that exists outside of Lee's alternate world where words mean whatever he thinks they mean.
Having conceded to my moderate colleagues on all of the above, I now ask only that the bill be amended to include an opt-out provision, for states or even just for individuals.
But there's the money shot, he's naming his favorite amendment, which is stupid of course, opt out of what? The whole bill? There's no more mandate, no employer mandate, states can already out of out EHBs and pretty much everything else...what is he asking for exactly? OPT OUT OF WHAT MIKE? Whatever, it doesn't matter because again, he doesn't know what words are, so just label something an "opt out" and he's going to vote for it. Scratch Lee off the list of four right wing hold outs.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:00 PM on June 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
It cuts taxes. It bails out insurance companies. It props up Obamacare through the next election. It lays out plans to slow Medicaid spending beginning in 2025, but that probably won’t happen. And it leaves in place the ham-fisted federal regulations that have driven up family health insurance premiums by 140 percent since Obamacare was implemented.
So uhh, have you read the bill? You know it makes all that stuff way worse right?
Far short of “repeal,” the Senate bill keeps the Democrats’ broken system intact, just with less spending on the poor to pay for corporate bailouts and tax cuts. A cynic might say that the BCRA is less a Republican health care bill than a caricature of a Republican health care bill.
Uhh, yes? Are you saying that's a bad thing now? I'm getting mixed messages. Fuck it there's no way to read this as actually commenting on a health bill that exists outside of Lee's alternate world where words mean whatever he thinks they mean.
Having conceded to my moderate colleagues on all of the above, I now ask only that the bill be amended to include an opt-out provision, for states or even just for individuals.
But there's the money shot, he's naming his favorite amendment, which is stupid of course, opt out of what? The whole bill? There's no more mandate, no employer mandate, states can already out of out EHBs and pretty much everything else...what is he asking for exactly? OPT OUT OF WHAT MIKE? Whatever, it doesn't matter because again, he doesn't know what words are, so just label something an "opt out" and he's going to vote for it. Scratch Lee off the list of four right wing hold outs.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:00 PM on June 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
I saw this yesterday on Twitter, but there wasn't a reliable story attached. There is now: D.C. Council member condemns Park Police for detaining youths selling water on Mall
posted by zachlipton at 8:08 PM on June 23, 2017 [25 favorites]
The D.C. Council member who chairs the public safety committee condemned on Friday U.S. Park Police for handcuffing and detaining three teenagers for selling water on the Mall without a valid vendor’s license.A plainclothes task force to handcuff teenagers for trying to sell a box full of water bottles. What a country.
The plainclothes officers were part of a task force seeking out illegal vending. But the Council member, Charles Allen (D-Ward 6), said the youths could have been dealt with in a “less severe” way. The youths were released with verbal warnings and no charges.
Pictures of the cuffed teens — all African American — were posted widely on social media as they sat on the ground in front of officers Thursday afternoon near 12th Street and Jefferson Drive NW.
...
Allen took exception to a statement from Park Police Sgt. Anna Rose, the department’s spokeswoman, who was quoted by U.S. News and World Report saying, “This has gotten blown out of proportion.”
posted by zachlipton at 8:08 PM on June 23, 2017 [25 favorites]
Medicaid may have an able bodied work requirement.
The House Agricultural committee is looking at imposing able bodied work requirements on the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP).
The House Ways and Means (or maybe Rule committee) is looking at having an able bodied work requirement for Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF). Republicans also have another idea. TANF funds would no longer be paid to these able bodied individuals directly instead they would be put into a public-private partnership. TANF money would be paid to private companies who would provide jobs and paychecks to the individuals in need.
posted by phoque at 8:09 PM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
The House Agricultural committee is looking at imposing able bodied work requirements on the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP).
The House Ways and Means (or maybe Rule committee) is looking at having an able bodied work requirement for Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF). Republicans also have another idea. TANF funds would no longer be paid to these able bodied individuals directly instead they would be put into a public-private partnership. TANF money would be paid to private companies who would provide jobs and paychecks to the individuals in need.
posted by phoque at 8:09 PM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
The D.C. Council member who chairs the public safety committee condemned on Friday U.S. Park Police for handcuffing and detaining three teenagers for selling water on the Mall without a valid vendor’s license.
The kids should have claimed they were with Uber and they would have received an apology and a billion dollar IPO.
posted by JackFlash at 8:17 PM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
The kids should have claimed they were with Uber and they would have received an apology and a billion dollar IPO.
posted by JackFlash at 8:17 PM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
"So, you had this professor who really wanted to make the world a better place who couldn't get audiences to see his excellent shows. He really believed that if we could just find the right way of getting the word out, the workers of the world would flock to our theatre. The thing is, many of them did flock to our theatre - when we did musicals."
Well, another possibility here is that people like escapism and fun and don't want to dwell on social issues recreationally or just want a break from that for 2 hours. Or that "Forum" or whatever musical is usually a known crowd-pleaser as opposed to Super Heavy Deep Sounding Vague New Play, and who knows if you're gonna like that? "Forum" is a "sure thing."
On the other hand, I'm thinking of yet another musical when I say, "a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down." People love that stuff if it comes in an entertaining package. Maybe if the professor had turned his social issues into musicals that sounded fun at first (example: Urinetown sounds like a happy musical from the name, right?), it could have gotten butts in seats? Or if he'd done something else crowd-friendly, like oh, I dunno, turning Cabinet meetings into rap battles.
I'm not a theater person, I'm just a desperate wannabe theater person so I'm probably talking out of my ass, but I do see a lot of shows a year and I probably would have done the same thing as your patrons: not been too interested in seeing anything with deep social change in it most of the time, unless there was some fun to it.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:27 PM on June 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
Well, another possibility here is that people like escapism and fun and don't want to dwell on social issues recreationally or just want a break from that for 2 hours. Or that "Forum" or whatever musical is usually a known crowd-pleaser as opposed to Super Heavy Deep Sounding Vague New Play, and who knows if you're gonna like that? "Forum" is a "sure thing."
On the other hand, I'm thinking of yet another musical when I say, "a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down." People love that stuff if it comes in an entertaining package. Maybe if the professor had turned his social issues into musicals that sounded fun at first (example: Urinetown sounds like a happy musical from the name, right?), it could have gotten butts in seats? Or if he'd done something else crowd-friendly, like oh, I dunno, turning Cabinet meetings into rap battles.
I'm not a theater person, I'm just a desperate wannabe theater person so I'm probably talking out of my ass, but I do see a lot of shows a year and I probably would have done the same thing as your patrons: not been too interested in seeing anything with deep social change in it most of the time, unless there was some fun to it.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:27 PM on June 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
If everyone wanted Obama to just say Fuck It and ditch any established precedents regarding his behavior because REPUBLICANS DO IT SO WE SHOULD TOO, why isn't everyone upset that he didn't break all of the norms? The President can legally go really, really, really far here and I don't understand the argument that "don't fuck with the election" isn't a meaningful precedent to depart from just because Republicans are assholes.
He should have spent his last State of the Union talking solely about how wrecked our shit would be if a Republican got elected.
He should have directed the Post Office to refuse to deliver any Trump campaign material.
He should have lit up the White House with "VOTE CLINTON" in the final weeks of the election.
He should have offered pardons to anyone willing to commit crimes in service of getting Clinton elected.
He should have directed the CIA to unclassify any information collected where Trump business was incidentally involved.
He should have directed the IRS to release Trump's tax returns without his consent.
He should have had all daily White House briefings begin with 30 minutes of campaigning for Clinton and against Trump.
He should have sent pro-Democrat fliers to all active military personnel as befits his position as commander in chief.
He should have had Capitol police arrest Trump and submit him to a proper medical exam in jail so we could actually know how his health is.
If norms are just totally out the window now and you really think there's no penalty to breaking them, I have no idea what kind of insane dictator you wanted Obama to have been. Where would you have Obama stop? If your argument boils down to "norms are for sucker losers", why would any of the above have been bad ideas?
posted by 0xFCAF at 8:36 PM on June 23, 2017 [19 favorites]
He should have spent his last State of the Union talking solely about how wrecked our shit would be if a Republican got elected.
He should have directed the Post Office to refuse to deliver any Trump campaign material.
He should have lit up the White House with "VOTE CLINTON" in the final weeks of the election.
He should have offered pardons to anyone willing to commit crimes in service of getting Clinton elected.
He should have directed the CIA to unclassify any information collected where Trump business was incidentally involved.
He should have directed the IRS to release Trump's tax returns without his consent.
He should have had all daily White House briefings begin with 30 minutes of campaigning for Clinton and against Trump.
He should have sent pro-Democrat fliers to all active military personnel as befits his position as commander in chief.
He should have had Capitol police arrest Trump and submit him to a proper medical exam in jail so we could actually know how his health is.
If norms are just totally out the window now and you really think there's no penalty to breaking them, I have no idea what kind of insane dictator you wanted Obama to have been. Where would you have Obama stop? If your argument boils down to "norms are for sucker losers", why would any of the above have been bad ideas?
posted by 0xFCAF at 8:36 PM on June 23, 2017 [19 favorites]
> If everyone wanted Obama to just say Fuck It and ditch any established precedents regarding his behavior because REPUBLICANS DO IT SO WE SHOULD TOO, why isn't everyone upset that he didn't break all of the norms?
I'm not as up on my taxonomy of logical fallacies as I ought to be, but this is clearly in there somewhere. First, I don't think we've come to a consensus on this being a violation of an established norm, because I don't think there's a playbook for "hostile foreign power is fucking with the election -- do you try to unfuck it?" But assuming the "don't interfere" norm can be extended to cases where the first interference comes from outside our borders, why can't one support ignoring this norm in this one case without also supporting all other violations of that norm in all other cases? I can support trying to defend the integrity of the election without supporting fucking with it just to have you or your team win. There's no tension between those believes whatsoever.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:42 PM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm not as up on my taxonomy of logical fallacies as I ought to be, but this is clearly in there somewhere. First, I don't think we've come to a consensus on this being a violation of an established norm, because I don't think there's a playbook for "hostile foreign power is fucking with the election -- do you try to unfuck it?" But assuming the "don't interfere" norm can be extended to cases where the first interference comes from outside our borders, why can't one support ignoring this norm in this one case without also supporting all other violations of that norm in all other cases? I can support trying to defend the integrity of the election without supporting fucking with it just to have you or your team win. There's no tension between those believes whatsoever.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:42 PM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
Just release the tape of Putin ordering people to fix it so Trump wins. Point out the systems they compromised. Make the voting systems fair, force paper ballots. You can get paper ballots to all precincts in four months.
Just so you know, okay voters? Chew on that then do what you want.
Instead, no one did anything.
posted by petebest at 8:45 PM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Just so you know, okay voters? Chew on that then do what you want.
Instead, no one did anything.
posted by petebest at 8:45 PM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Worst case scenario we'd be in the exact same situation
Ah, no. Worst case scenarios include escalating paramilitary violence, attempted coups, etc.
Democrats react to a president they perceive as illegitimate with protests, law suits, media exposes, calls for a special prosecutor. Right wingers may react with "second amendment solutions."
Throughout the election season, with Trump encouraging violence at his campaign rallies and talking about second ammendment people and saying Obama founded ISIS and "lock her up" and so on, I was legitimately afraid of it escalating to civil war, or at least domestic terrorism. I still am.
It's a risky path, but letting him take office and then using constitutional means like special prosecutor and impeachment to remove him may yet allow the nation to come out intact.
Having Trump lose and then convince HIS followers that the election was rigged and the government illegitimate could have led to serious and ongoing violence.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:46 PM on June 23, 2017 [22 favorites]
Ah, no. Worst case scenarios include escalating paramilitary violence, attempted coups, etc.
Democrats react to a president they perceive as illegitimate with protests, law suits, media exposes, calls for a special prosecutor. Right wingers may react with "second amendment solutions."
Throughout the election season, with Trump encouraging violence at his campaign rallies and talking about second ammendment people and saying Obama founded ISIS and "lock her up" and so on, I was legitimately afraid of it escalating to civil war, or at least domestic terrorism. I still am.
It's a risky path, but letting him take office and then using constitutional means like special prosecutor and impeachment to remove him may yet allow the nation to come out intact.
Having Trump lose and then convince HIS followers that the election was rigged and the government illegitimate could have led to serious and ongoing violence.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:46 PM on June 23, 2017 [22 favorites]
We are also operating with the benefit of hindsight. I knew he would be a garbage president who would surround himself with garbage people who would all want to do garbage things. Even in my cynicism, however, I didn't realize just how bad it could get so quickly.
Luckily most of them are incompetent or things could be darker still.
I wish the Obama administration had pushed the issue more, at least after the election. But I understand why they didn't.
posted by Superplin at 8:52 PM on June 23, 2017 [15 favorites]
Luckily most of them are incompetent or things could be darker still.
I wish the Obama administration had pushed the issue more, at least after the election. But I understand why they didn't.
posted by Superplin at 8:52 PM on June 23, 2017 [15 favorites]
Having Trump lose and then convince HIS followers that the election was rigged and the government illegitimate could have led to serious and ongoing violence.
In that case Obama gave in to the threat of terrorism.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:53 PM on June 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
In that case Obama gave in to the threat of terrorism.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:53 PM on June 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
Just release the tape of Putin ordering people to fix it so Trump wins.
Is there such a thing? It's just "intelligence" so far, I thought. We don't know what form it is in.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:55 PM on June 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Is there such a thing? It's just "intelligence" so far, I thought. We don't know what form it is in.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:55 PM on June 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
@ColinKahl
The failure of GOP leadership to call out Russian meddling prior to the election significantly constrained Obama’s options. 1/
- The White House wanted a bipartisan statement to warn & mobilize defenses. McConnell et al refused. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/world/national-security/obama-putin-election-hacking/
- In the absence of a bipartisan statement, public responses coming directly from the Obama White House would likely have backfired. 3/
- Just think how Trump would’ve responded. First, he would’ve declared any Obama statement partisan “fake news”…4/
- …& accused Obama of blaming Russia for something a 400-lb guy on his bed could’ve done. Remember this ['You don't know who broke into #DNC' - Trump on cyber security and hacking #debatenight #debates on.rt.com/7qbi]
- Next, Trump would have used any related-actions by Obama as evidence that the President was trying to "rig the election" for Clinton. 6/
- If there's any doubt, just remember all the ways Trump was claiming the election would be rigged against him? http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/donald-trump-rigged-election-guide-230302 … 7/
- Trump’s “rigged” talk put significant constraints on anything coming *exclusively* from the Obama administration. http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/jeh-johnson-trumps-rigged-election-claims-affected-what-dhs-could-say-about-russia-interference/article/2626619 … 8/
- In this context, any perceived partisan move by Obama risked playing into Moscow's top objective: sowing doubt in our electoral system. 9/
- Pre-election sanctions would also have been politicized, setting in motion an escalator cycle…10/
- …that could’ve created further chaos on the eve of the election—again, doing the Kremlin’s dirty work for them. 11/
- So, in the absence of Republican help, the administration issued a non-political intel attribution statement to put Moscow on notice. [statement] 12/
- But it was quickly drowned out by the media focus on the Access Hollywood tape & the Podesta emails dumped by WikiLeaks (from Russia). 13/
- The Obama admin also issued private deterrence messages in the event Russia tried to alter actual votes, prepped response options…14/
- …& took prudent steps to harden election infrastructure against actual Russian vote tampering (which appeared to work). 15/
- Hindsight is 20/20. Looking back, it is fair to debate whether the Obama administration should’ve done more before the election. 16/
- But it's indisputable that more options would've been available if GOP leadership hadn’t played politics with the Russian attack. 17/17
posted by chris24 at 9:00 PM on June 23, 2017 [81 favorites]
- The White House wanted a bipartisan statement to warn & mobilize defenses. McConnell et al refused. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/world/national-security/obama-putin-election-hacking/
- In the absence of a bipartisan statement, public responses coming directly from the Obama White House would likely have backfired. 3/
- Just think how Trump would’ve responded. First, he would’ve declared any Obama statement partisan “fake news”…4/
- …& accused Obama of blaming Russia for something a 400-lb guy on his bed could’ve done. Remember this ['You don't know who broke into #DNC' - Trump on cyber security and hacking #debatenight #debates on.rt.com/7qbi]
- Next, Trump would have used any related-actions by Obama as evidence that the President was trying to "rig the election" for Clinton. 6/
- If there's any doubt, just remember all the ways Trump was claiming the election would be rigged against him? http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/donald-trump-rigged-election-guide-230302 … 7/
- Trump’s “rigged” talk put significant constraints on anything coming *exclusively* from the Obama administration. http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/jeh-johnson-trumps-rigged-election-claims-affected-what-dhs-could-say-about-russia-interference/article/2626619 … 8/
- In this context, any perceived partisan move by Obama risked playing into Moscow's top objective: sowing doubt in our electoral system. 9/
- Pre-election sanctions would also have been politicized, setting in motion an escalator cycle…10/
- …that could’ve created further chaos on the eve of the election—again, doing the Kremlin’s dirty work for them. 11/
- So, in the absence of Republican help, the administration issued a non-political intel attribution statement to put Moscow on notice. [statement] 12/
- But it was quickly drowned out by the media focus on the Access Hollywood tape & the Podesta emails dumped by WikiLeaks (from Russia). 13/
- The Obama admin also issued private deterrence messages in the event Russia tried to alter actual votes, prepped response options…14/
- …& took prudent steps to harden election infrastructure against actual Russian vote tampering (which appeared to work). 15/
- Hindsight is 20/20. Looking back, it is fair to debate whether the Obama administration should’ve done more before the election. 16/
- But it's indisputable that more options would've been available if GOP leadership hadn’t played politics with the Russian attack. 17/17
posted by chris24 at 9:00 PM on June 23, 2017 [81 favorites]
• The question is what the Obama Asministration would have said had the Republican nominee been a Romney-type who wasn't running around claiming the election was rigged and raising fears of actual violence if he lost. I mean, yes, he choked while searching for the same utterly nonexistent bipartisanship he spent his entire administration hoping for, but go look back at the fear in some of our old threads from when Trump was questioning the legitimacy of the election and ask what impact Obama would have had if he said more then.
• So Obama's administration tells the public that the Russians are hacking the election, and offers evidence (which some in the intelligence community weren't 100% behind, not to mention the Republicans), and then what? 62% of Republicans are "not very concerned" or "not concerned at all" with Russian collusion. That sounds like a disaster during an election.
• I'm all about ragging on Obama for pipe-dream bi-partisan togetherness but he wasn't King or Caesar and he told Congress all about it. Mitch "Like Hell, But For Turds" McConnell condemned us to this timeline when he threatened to take this Russian attack as a partisan attack.
• Honestly. What would have happened if Obama had gone all public with the info? Republicans would have went nuclear on "Obama's Deep State" and all those damn elitist bastards trying to subvert the will of the people! It's disgusting but look around you. Do you have that much faith in your fellow citizens to process complex information?
• Throughout the election season, with Trump encouraging violence at his campaign rallies and talking about second ammendment people and saying Obama founded ISIS and "lock her up" and so on, I was legitimately afraid of it escalating to civil war, or at least domestic terrorism. I still am. It's a risky path, but letting him take office and then using constitutional means like special prosecutor and impeachment to remove him may yet allow the nation to come out intact. Having Trump lose and then convince HIS followers that the election was rigged and the government illegitimate could have led to serious and ongoing violence.
So the core argument here, if I understand it, is that because Trump and McConnell threatened chaos and violence, it was the right thing to do for Obama to withhold evidence of Russian hacking? This is what we've sunk to? Everyone does realize they're still threatening violence if they don't get their way, right? And we all realize that a successful impeachment will make their rage at a stern statement from Obama look like a walk in the park, right?
posted by chortly at 9:06 PM on June 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
• So Obama's administration tells the public that the Russians are hacking the election, and offers evidence (which some in the intelligence community weren't 100% behind, not to mention the Republicans), and then what? 62% of Republicans are "not very concerned" or "not concerned at all" with Russian collusion. That sounds like a disaster during an election.
• I'm all about ragging on Obama for pipe-dream bi-partisan togetherness but he wasn't King or Caesar and he told Congress all about it. Mitch "Like Hell, But For Turds" McConnell condemned us to this timeline when he threatened to take this Russian attack as a partisan attack.
• Honestly. What would have happened if Obama had gone all public with the info? Republicans would have went nuclear on "Obama's Deep State" and all those damn elitist bastards trying to subvert the will of the people! It's disgusting but look around you. Do you have that much faith in your fellow citizens to process complex information?
• Throughout the election season, with Trump encouraging violence at his campaign rallies and talking about second ammendment people and saying Obama founded ISIS and "lock her up" and so on, I was legitimately afraid of it escalating to civil war, or at least domestic terrorism. I still am. It's a risky path, but letting him take office and then using constitutional means like special prosecutor and impeachment to remove him may yet allow the nation to come out intact. Having Trump lose and then convince HIS followers that the election was rigged and the government illegitimate could have led to serious and ongoing violence.
So the core argument here, if I understand it, is that because Trump and McConnell threatened chaos and violence, it was the right thing to do for Obama to withhold evidence of Russian hacking? This is what we've sunk to? Everyone does realize they're still threatening violence if they don't get their way, right? And we all realize that a successful impeachment will make their rage at a stern statement from Obama look like a walk in the park, right?
posted by chortly at 9:06 PM on June 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
Exactly. The Obama administration decided that the people's right to know was less important than taking the risk of Trump and /or the Republicans throwing a fit. The fear of Republican craziness is like Obama's krypton it.
posted by bardophile at 9:16 PM on June 23, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by bardophile at 9:16 PM on June 23, 2017 [15 favorites]
successful impeachment will make their rage at a stern statement from Obama look like a walk in the park, right
The shine is wearing off Trump.
Moreover, a successful impeachment would require Republican participation.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:18 PM on June 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
The shine is wearing off Trump.
Moreover, a successful impeachment would require Republican participation.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:18 PM on June 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Employers can get away with a lot of shit but if their employees are making less than $20/hr they're getting paid overtime.
Hahhahahahahahhahaa..... yeah. Good one.
In the real world, this is rampantly abused.
Yeah I mean, ok, on PAPER my husband makes more than $20/hour if you divide his salary by 40 hours. But since he works more like 70 hours a week because he falls in that "barely exempt and Obama was gonna change it but TRUMP" category, he actually makes more like $13/hr most of the time. But he gets insurance, so they can pretty much expect him to work 12 hour days 6 days a week and he can't change jobs because you know, insurance, and we both are chronically ill, and there aren't a lot of better options.
The point is that when you're poor the letter of the law doesn't mean much. What would help everyone would be to divorce health insurance from employment completely and then companies wouldn't have to play keepaway with full-time employment status and workers wouldn't have to work multiple jobs just to keep themselves alive. I don't know why US employers want the anchor of healthcare costs around their necks dragging them down so badly.
posted by threeturtles at 9:18 PM on June 23, 2017 [34 favorites]
Hahhahahahahahhahaa..... yeah. Good one.
In the real world, this is rampantly abused.
Yeah I mean, ok, on PAPER my husband makes more than $20/hour if you divide his salary by 40 hours. But since he works more like 70 hours a week because he falls in that "barely exempt and Obama was gonna change it but TRUMP" category, he actually makes more like $13/hr most of the time. But he gets insurance, so they can pretty much expect him to work 12 hour days 6 days a week and he can't change jobs because you know, insurance, and we both are chronically ill, and there aren't a lot of better options.
The point is that when you're poor the letter of the law doesn't mean much. What would help everyone would be to divorce health insurance from employment completely and then companies wouldn't have to play keepaway with full-time employment status and workers wouldn't have to work multiple jobs just to keep themselves alive. I don't know why US employers want the anchor of healthcare costs around their necks dragging them down so badly.
posted by threeturtles at 9:18 PM on June 23, 2017 [34 favorites]
Pretty fitting that all of Obama's legacy will be wiped out by the culmination of his biggest failing as President. He never once realized that Republicans were not playing the same game he was. They never had the best interest of the country in mind, from the beginning. It was always party over country. They were always trying to delegitimize democracy to re-gain power, by any means necessary. Not one of them was ever acting in good faith, much as he wished it otherwise.
You would think at some point in eight years, the lesson would've dawned on him, but it never did.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:19 PM on June 23, 2017 [23 favorites]
You would think at some point in eight years, the lesson would've dawned on him, but it never did.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:19 PM on June 23, 2017 [23 favorites]
Also he really shouldn't have trusted Baelish to bribe the City Guard. I never liked that guy!
posted by Justinian at 9:22 PM on June 23, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 9:22 PM on June 23, 2017 [13 favorites]
Pretty fitting that all of Obama's legacy will be wiped out by the culmination of his biggest failing as President.
Yes, and yes but no.
His failing was his sincere hope and belief that we were a nation that could come together behind a competent, unity-minded person who happened to be black.
God help us, he was wrong. And now we reap the bitter fruit.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:25 PM on June 23, 2017 [33 favorites]
Yes, and yes but no.
His failing was his sincere hope and belief that we were a nation that could come together behind a competent, unity-minded person who happened to be black.
God help us, he was wrong. And now we reap the bitter fruit.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:25 PM on June 23, 2017 [33 favorites]
Obama as Ned Stark cuts deep because it's exactly accurate in every way.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:29 PM on June 23, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:29 PM on June 23, 2017 [20 favorites]
Depression*, anxiety*, migraines*, endometriosis, PMDD*, ovarian cysts, pituitary adenoma, asthma*, diabetes insipidus, degenerative disc disease, scoliosis, congenital torticollis, ectodermal dysplasia*.
Those are my pre-existing conditions. The starred ones are also my Kid's pre-existing conditions.
Fuck you, you heartless turtle. I have excellent employer insurance and I'm STILL struggling with medical debt. I chose the most expensive (to me) plan with the lowest deductible and I still owe thousands of dollars.
posted by Ruki at 9:34 PM on June 23, 2017 [26 favorites]
Those are my pre-existing conditions. The starred ones are also my Kid's pre-existing conditions.
Fuck you, you heartless turtle. I have excellent employer insurance and I'm STILL struggling with medical debt. I chose the most expensive (to me) plan with the lowest deductible and I still owe thousands of dollars.
posted by Ruki at 9:34 PM on June 23, 2017 [26 favorites]
This kind of thing is why optimists make me crazy. They are so determined to believe in Hope that they ignore the evil.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:34 PM on June 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:34 PM on June 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
Oh! I'd also like to point out that a number of those conditions are because I'm AFAB.
posted by Ruki at 9:35 PM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Ruki at 9:35 PM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
This kind of thing is why optimists make me crazy. They are so determined to believe in Hope that they ignore the evil.
Everybody in this thread is an optimist.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:48 PM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Everybody in this thread is an optimist.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:48 PM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Mark Zuckerberg is touring Iowa.
Fuck everything.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:49 PM on June 23, 2017 [18 favorites]
Fuck everything.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:49 PM on June 23, 2017 [18 favorites]
So... Was this the tick tick tick? Or is there more to worry about?
posted by greermahoney at 9:58 PM on June 23, 2017
posted by greermahoney at 9:58 PM on June 23, 2017
So we've mostly agreed that posting a tweet that just points to an article elsewhere is bad form & shouldn't be done here. Well rules were made to be broken.
@SallyQYates 8:23 PM - 23 Jun 2017 My first tweet as a private citizen. Read my op-ed responding to AG Sessions on the need for criminal justice reform
OK fine, you can also just go to the article. Spoilsports. WaPo op-ed Making America scared again won’t make us safer
Sally Q. Yates served in the Justice Department from 1989 to 2017 as an assistant U.S. attorney, U.S. attorney, deputy attorney general and, briefly this year, as acting attorney general.
posted by scalefree at 10:03 PM on June 23, 2017 [28 favorites]
@SallyQYates 8:23 PM - 23 Jun 2017 My first tweet as a private citizen. Read my op-ed responding to AG Sessions on the need for criminal justice reform
OK fine, you can also just go to the article. Spoilsports. WaPo op-ed Making America scared again won’t make us safer
Sally Q. Yates served in the Justice Department from 1989 to 2017 as an assistant U.S. attorney, U.S. attorney, deputy attorney general and, briefly this year, as acting attorney general.
posted by scalefree at 10:03 PM on June 23, 2017 [28 favorites]
Dunno if that's the tick we were looking for but I'll take it.
posted by scalefree at 10:05 PM on June 23, 2017
posted by scalefree at 10:05 PM on June 23, 2017
Dunno if that's the tick we were looking for but I'll take it.
I'm just, you know, trying to manage my stress and I don't know if I can take much more. It would be nice to believe another bombshell isn't coming Monday.
posted by greermahoney at 10:15 PM on June 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm just, you know, trying to manage my stress and I don't know if I can take much more. It would be nice to believe another bombshell isn't coming Monday.
posted by greermahoney at 10:15 PM on June 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Worst case scenario we'd be in the exact same situation
Worst case scenario the Republican Congress would have refused to accept the Electoral College delegates that elect Clinton after Obama meddled in the election at the last moment. The Supreme Court is tied 4-4 which leads to a constitutional crisis. The right wing media complex launches an all out war and the public is convinced that this Russian business needs to just "go away" so we can move on. Now the entire narrative of Trump being a Russian stooge is flipped, and it was Obama and the Democrats who had been secretly plotting to overthrow the government the whole time. Trump launches investigations into literally every politician with a (D) after their name on Day 1, and drowns out any protest, dissent, or scandal by screaming about treason. He's also allowed much more authority to clean house throughout the federal bureaucracy, to make sure there aren't any other undercover Obama operatives. This would be a true dystopian nightmare police state, instead of the stupid clown knock-off version that we get to live in.
It's bad here in this timeline, but things can always be worse.
posted by Glibpaxman at 10:20 PM on June 23, 2017 [45 favorites]
Worst case scenario the Republican Congress would have refused to accept the Electoral College delegates that elect Clinton after Obama meddled in the election at the last moment. The Supreme Court is tied 4-4 which leads to a constitutional crisis. The right wing media complex launches an all out war and the public is convinced that this Russian business needs to just "go away" so we can move on. Now the entire narrative of Trump being a Russian stooge is flipped, and it was Obama and the Democrats who had been secretly plotting to overthrow the government the whole time. Trump launches investigations into literally every politician with a (D) after their name on Day 1, and drowns out any protest, dissent, or scandal by screaming about treason. He's also allowed much more authority to clean house throughout the federal bureaucracy, to make sure there aren't any other undercover Obama operatives. This would be a true dystopian nightmare police state, instead of the stupid clown knock-off version that we get to live in.
It's bad here in this timeline, but things can always be worse.
posted by Glibpaxman at 10:20 PM on June 23, 2017 [45 favorites]
wow, thanks for painting that picture, Glibpaxman (eponystyerical).
posted by So You're Saying These Are Pants? at 10:24 PM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by So You're Saying These Are Pants? at 10:24 PM on June 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Watching Sally Yates setup Twitter for the first time is kind of weird. Also liking the Betty Buckley fan club that's developed in the replies.
posted by zachlipton at 10:54 PM on June 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 10:54 PM on June 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
To the person who is made crazy by optimism; consider the alternative. Hope is progressive and cynicism is reactionary. Look forward and make it so!
posted by notyou at 10:58 PM on June 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by notyou at 10:58 PM on June 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
Pretty fitting that all of Obama's legacy will be wiped out
That is not a thing that will happen.
posted by bongo_x at 11:17 PM on June 23, 2017 [21 favorites]
That is not a thing that will happen.
posted by bongo_x at 11:17 PM on June 23, 2017 [21 favorites]
In a world where Mitch McConnell can stonewall a Supreme Court justice appointment for the better part of a year until he can block Obama's administration from defending our nation against Russian incursions into our electoral system which resulted in Trump getting elected president, and a good proportion of our population still supports the Russian invasion because it made them feel good about their white nationalist selves, and the new ruling class led my McConnell is about to commit genocide by removal of the social safety net so that his kind can have more mansions - it's a bit much to demand optimism. We don't need to be pessimists but we do need to be realists.
Well, your succinct description makes it very clear that the problem is the Republican Party and it's voters (not Obama, not Hillary, not Bernie, not the largeness of the Democratic tent). So it's possible to be optimistic about demographics and about getting out the vote. It's also possible to be optimistic about the resistance - Ossoff did a great job, and some smart people have pointed to how he could have done even better. It was a good preparation for 2018.
posted by mumimor at 12:36 AM on June 24, 2017 [12 favorites]
Well, your succinct description makes it very clear that the problem is the Republican Party and it's voters (not Obama, not Hillary, not Bernie, not the largeness of the Democratic tent). So it's possible to be optimistic about demographics and about getting out the vote. It's also possible to be optimistic about the resistance - Ossoff did a great job, and some smart people have pointed to how he could have done even better. It was a good preparation for 2018.
posted by mumimor at 12:36 AM on June 24, 2017 [12 favorites]
I don't think Mitch McConnell gives a fuck about Russia or that the Russian government gives a fuck about him. The mysterious force controlling his actions is the small cabal of US-based billionaires who fund the Republican Party and have spent the last 10 years actively compressing his party's platform into outright worshipping of tax cuts and a small amount of celebrating bigotry to the extent it doesn't interfere with tax cuts. That's literally all he cares about, and he knows that if he does anything at all that doesn't put money directly into their pockets, they will punish him both electorally by funding whatever godawful wingnut wants to primary him and by funding leadership challenges that would oust him from serious power.
posted by Copronymus at 12:44 AM on June 24, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by Copronymus at 12:44 AM on June 24, 2017 [24 favorites]
What leverage does Russia have over Mitch McConnell and his wife Elaine Chao (Trump's unqualified Transportation Secretary who was also Bush II's unqualified Labor Secretary?) Are they super-lucky US public servants that just ended up being king and queen of Trump's Russian aristocracy? Given how hard Mitch pushed for this outcome, it's hard to believe they aren't complicit.
Former FBI Special Agent Clinton Watts warned the Senate Intelligence Committee: "No one's talking about is the information nukes that Russia sits on right now because they hacked three to 4,000 people. I think this afternoon, you're going to hear on the cyber more technical side this hacking was pervasive. We focused on the DNC. I've been targeted. some other people have been targeted that I know. They have our information. So anytime anyone rises up that they choose against, whether it's Republican or Democrat, congress or executive branch or a state official, they've got the ability to do the same thing they just did over the past year." {emphases added}
You've got to hand it to Putin - his active measures campaign appeals to not only McConnell's self-interest, but also his self-preservation. (McConnell's still going down in American history as one of the most malignant politicians ever.)
posted by Doktor Zed at 1:26 AM on June 24, 2017 [20 favorites]
Former FBI Special Agent Clinton Watts warned the Senate Intelligence Committee: "No one's talking about is the information nukes that Russia sits on right now because they hacked three to 4,000 people. I think this afternoon, you're going to hear on the cyber more technical side this hacking was pervasive. We focused on the DNC. I've been targeted. some other people have been targeted that I know. They have our information. So anytime anyone rises up that they choose against, whether it's Republican or Democrat, congress or executive branch or a state official, they've got the ability to do the same thing they just did over the past year." {emphases added}
You've got to hand it to Putin - his active measures campaign appeals to not only McConnell's self-interest, but also his self-preservation. (McConnell's still going down in American history as one of the most malignant politicians ever.)
posted by Doktor Zed at 1:26 AM on June 24, 2017 [20 favorites]
Are you saying that's a bad thing now? I'm getting mixed messages.
Mike Lee is not a corporate Republican, he does think those things are bad. I'm reading his statement, and it's actually quite damning. He's saying, essentially, that the bill is fucked and he will vote for it only if it's made optional only for states who think it's a good idea - the implication is essentiallly 'If any of them are stupid enough to take this Frankenstein monster.' The money quote is here:
They won't be able to give him an opt out and still make it make reconciliation. What he's asking for is too big.
posted by corb at 1:34 AM on June 24, 2017 [9 favorites]
Mike Lee is not a corporate Republican, he does think those things are bad. I'm reading his statement, and it's actually quite damning. He's saying, essentially, that the bill is fucked and he will vote for it only if it's made optional only for states who think it's a good idea - the implication is essentiallly 'If any of them are stupid enough to take this Frankenstein monster.' The money quote is here:
Liberal states might try single-payer systems, while conservatives might emphasize health savings accounts. Some people embrace association health plans or so-called “medishare” ministry models. My guess is different approaches will work for different people in different places – like everything else in life.Basically, he's suggesting states be allowed to do their own thing because it's impossible to make a good bill federally that everyone will agree on.
They won't be able to give him an opt out and still make it make reconciliation. What he's asking for is too big.
posted by corb at 1:34 AM on June 24, 2017 [9 favorites]
What would have happened if Obama had gone all public with the info?
And let's not forget that until the actual election, Clinton was very highly favored to win. Obama may have reasoned that the prudent course is to not introduce a destabilizing factor into something which is already strongly in your favor. Especially with the knowledge that Trump appeared to thrive on chaos. And even in hindsight, there's no guarantee that full disclosure of the hacking information would've made things better instead of worse. Could've been a victory for Clinton -or- we could be suffering through show trials of the Obama family and half the Democratic leadership for treason.
This latest blame game is just another round of Let's Pretend that Factor X is the One True Reason why Clinton lost the election. Had she squeaked through, we might be crowing about what a masterful poker artist Obama was to not reveal his hands. But there are no do-overs. The alternate reality outcomes will remain forever entirely speculative.
posted by xigxag at 3:08 AM on June 24, 2017 [41 favorites]
And let's not forget that until the actual election, Clinton was very highly favored to win. Obama may have reasoned that the prudent course is to not introduce a destabilizing factor into something which is already strongly in your favor. Especially with the knowledge that Trump appeared to thrive on chaos. And even in hindsight, there's no guarantee that full disclosure of the hacking information would've made things better instead of worse. Could've been a victory for Clinton -or- we could be suffering through show trials of the Obama family and half the Democratic leadership for treason.
This latest blame game is just another round of Let's Pretend that Factor X is the One True Reason why Clinton lost the election. Had she squeaked through, we might be crowing about what a masterful poker artist Obama was to not reveal his hands. But there are no do-overs. The alternate reality outcomes will remain forever entirely speculative.
posted by xigxag at 3:08 AM on June 24, 2017 [41 favorites]
Gail Collins, NYT: Taking On the Frat Boys
Outtakes for your conversation with your Trump Voting Relative to get her to call her senator:
Outtakes for your conversation with your Trump Voting Relative to get her to call her senator:
Insurance is all about sharing risks. If people who didn’t require maternity coverage, i.e. men, were able to save money by forgoing it, the price for the women who did need it would skyrocket. This is a concept that seems to elude a lot of members of Congress. In a town-hall meeting this spring, Representative Rod Blum, a Republican from Iowa, said his goal was to “get rid of some of these crazy regulations that Obamacare puts on, such as a 62-year-old male having to have pregnancy insurance.”and
People, do you think all this would have happened if there were women drafting the health care bill? Two of the Republican women in the Senate, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska and Susan Collins of Maine, are longtime defenders of Planned Parenthood. Collins has been in office for 20 years and Murkowski 15. Both of them are on the committee that handles health bills. But neither of them was regarded as worthy to attend those secret meetings. Ted Cruz was invited. Ted Cruz who is still in his first term, who all the other Republicans loathe. Ted Cruz who, when the bill was finally made public, instantly announced it wasn’t conservative enough.posted by mumimor at 3:23 AM on June 24, 2017 [27 favorites]
While I agree with the general point, if Murkowski and Collins vote for this thing they are no better than the rest of them. Maybe they care about Planned Parenthood but it won't be as much as they care about paying for tax cuts for the wealthy with the blood of poor kids and the disabled.
posted by Justinian at 3:43 AM on June 24, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 3:43 AM on June 24, 2017 [6 favorites]
Wow.
Andy Greenberg for Wired: "HOW AN ENTIRE NATION BECAME RUSSIA'S TEST LAB FOR CYBERWAR"
Andy Greenberg for Wired: "HOW AN ENTIRE NATION BECAME RUSSIA'S TEST LAB FOR CYBERWAR"
Yasinsky felt sure that this was no normal blackout. He thought of the cold outside—close to zero degrees Fahrenheit—the slowly sinking temperatures in thousands of homes, and the countdown until dead water pumps led to frozen pipes.posted by OnceUponATime at 4:12 AM on June 24, 2017 [47 favorites]
...
Once the circuit breakers were open and the power for tens of thousands of Ukrainians had gone dead, the hackers launched another phase of the attack. They’d overwritten the firmware of the substations’ serial-to-ethernet converters—tiny boxes in the stations’ server closets that translated internet protocols to communicate with older equipment. By rewriting the obscure code of those chunks of hardware—a trick that likely took weeks to devise—the hackers had permanently bricked the devices, shutting out the legitimate operators from further digital control of the breakers. Sitting at the conference room table, Assante marveled at the thoroughness of the operation.
The hackers also left one of their usual calling cards, running KillDisk to destroy a handful of the company’s PCs. But the most vicious element of the attack struck the control stations’ battery backups. When the electricity was cut to the region, the stations themselves also lost power, throwing them into darkness in the midst of their crisis. With utmost precision, the hackers had engineered a blackout within a blackout.
“The message was, ‘I’m going to make you feel this everywhere.’Boom boom boom boom boom boom boom,” Assante says, imagining the attack from the perspective of a bewildered grid operator. “These attackers must have seemed like they were gods."
...
For those who have been paying attention to Sandworm for almost three years, raising an alarm about the potential for an attack on the US grid is no longer crying wolf. For John Hultquist, head of the team of researchers at FireEye that first spotted and named the Sandworm group, the wolves have arrived. “We’ve seen this actor show a capability to turn out the lights and an interest in US systems,” Hultquist says. Three weeks after the 2016 Kiev attack, he wrote a prediction on Twitter and pinned it to his profile for posterity: “I swear, when Sandworm Team finally nails Western critical infrastructure, and folks react like this was a huge surprise, I’m gonna lose it.”
I'm breaking a personal rule about commenting on an American problem, but...
chris24 has posted a tweet from Hillary that mentioned Death Panels. Why has it taken so long for you guys to pick up on this? Why haven't you learned about re-branding? All that chatter about whether or not to take the high road -- just stop saying "Health Bill" (or ACA or whatever) and call it the Death Bill. Got it? That's your message, that's the term you use in the Facebook ads you buy, that's... Oh, fuck it. It's not my country.
posted by CCBC at 4:16 AM on June 24, 2017 [42 favorites]
chris24 has posted a tweet from Hillary that mentioned Death Panels. Why has it taken so long for you guys to pick up on this? Why haven't you learned about re-branding? All that chatter about whether or not to take the high road -- just stop saying "Health Bill" (or ACA or whatever) and call it the Death Bill. Got it? That's your message, that's the term you use in the Facebook ads you buy, that's... Oh, fuck it. It's not my country.
posted by CCBC at 4:16 AM on June 24, 2017 [42 favorites]
What leverage does Russia have over Mitch McConnell and his wife Elaine Chao (Trump's unqualified Transportation Secretary who was also Bush II's unqualified Labor Secretary?) Are they super-lucky US public servants that just ended up being king and queen of Trump's Russian aristocracy? Given how hard Mitch pushed for this outcome, it's hard to believe they aren't complicit.
[Republicans move to shred the safety net and leave millions to their fate, as Republicans have tried to do since the New Deal]
My god. What kompromatiyavasnikova does fiendish Putin have on these people ...
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 4:21 AM on June 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
[Republicans move to shred the safety net and leave millions to their fate, as Republicans have tried to do since the New Deal]
My god. What kompromatiyavasnikova does fiendish Putin have on these people ...
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 4:21 AM on June 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
Did I miss something? Why are we assuming that Mitch McConnell has been compromised by the Russian government?
posted by R.F.Simpson at 4:25 AM on June 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by R.F.Simpson at 4:25 AM on June 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
Did I miss something? Why are we assuming that Mitch McConnell has been compromised by the Russian government?
Because for some reason people can't believe he'd be this awful on his own. Now that's what I call being an optimist.
posted by chris24 at 4:27 AM on June 24, 2017 [51 favorites]
Because for some reason people can't believe he'd be this awful on his own. Now that's what I call being an optimist.
posted by chris24 at 4:27 AM on June 24, 2017 [51 favorites]
[Republicans move to shred the safety net ...]
My god. What kompromatiyavasnikova does fiendish Putin have on these people ...
I think the context was more like "Republicans stopped the President from responding to a Russian attack on our democracy, with the implied threat of domestic terrorism. My god, what does Putin have on these people?"
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:38 AM on June 24, 2017 [6 favorites]
My god. What kompromatiyavasnikova does fiendish Putin have on these people ...
I think the context was more like "Republicans stopped the President from responding to a Russian attack on our democracy, with the implied threat of domestic terrorism. My god, what does Putin have on these people?"
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:38 AM on June 24, 2017 [6 favorites]
I think the context was more like "Republicans stopped the President from responding to a Russian attack on our democracy, with the implied threat of domestic terrorism. My god, what does Putin have on these people?"
Their greed easily overrules their patriotism. No need for Putin there
posted by mumimor at 4:42 AM on June 24, 2017 [7 favorites]
Their greed easily overrules their patriotism. No need for Putin there
posted by mumimor at 4:42 AM on June 24, 2017 [7 favorites]
I think the context was more like "Republicans stopped the President from responding to a Russian attack on our democracy, with the implied threat of domestic terrorism. My god, what does Putin have on these people?"
Point taken, but Republicans have long wanted to destroy the New Deal and the Great Society, and now they enjoy so much power that they could probably do it if they put their minds to it. Letting the President bring Russian activity to light would prevent them from achieving some of their most cherished ideological goals. To my mind, this is a better explanation for their behavior than a grand blackmail conspiracy by a tinpot, though nuclear-armed, oil dictatorship.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 4:50 AM on June 24, 2017 [8 favorites]
Point taken, but Republicans have long wanted to destroy the New Deal and the Great Society, and now they enjoy so much power that they could probably do it if they put their minds to it. Letting the President bring Russian activity to light would prevent them from achieving some of their most cherished ideological goals. To my mind, this is a better explanation for their behavior than a grand blackmail conspiracy by a tinpot, though nuclear-armed, oil dictatorship.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 4:50 AM on June 24, 2017 [8 favorites]
Feds: WE HAVE TAPES OF PUTIN HIMSELF ORDERING THAT TRUMP BE ELECTED.
Congress: Meh
GA SoS Kemp: Tain't never happent *spit*
MSM: And down the stretch they come!! Hoo doggies ain't this fucked up!
--8 months later--
Feds: Still have the tapes. Heres a flash drive with 'em on there.
Congress: Wha-wha-whaaaaaaaaaaaaa?!?!??
GA SoS Kemp: Still say ain't happent. Youkin ask Handel'll look int'it. *grin* *spit*
MSM: Woweee gosh!! Ain't this a corker!!
My mom is from Georgia, and my dad is from NC. I have lived in either NC or Georgia basically my entire life. I do not talk like this, and neither does anyone I know. When I lived in Athens, GA 15 years ago, Brian Kemp was my state representative. I have heard him speak a number of times, including when he gave the single worst commencement address I have ever heard. He doesn't talk like this, because nobody on earth talks like this. He talks like a fucking lawyer asshole because that is what he is.
I know that it is still quite fashionable to make fun of those of us from the US Southeast. I know you think we're all dumb white rednecks who deserve the governments we have. But remember that Georgia is 39% non-white. Remember that Hilary won 45% of the vote here. And remember that the people of Georgia, people who you enjoy mocking, are actually Kemp's victims here as he has repeatedly chosen to run elections on black box paperless voting machines that he knew to be unsecured, to illegally purge our voter rolls, and to do nothing while our voter rolls, including our social security numbers, are released to the fucking KKK.
Yes, it's fun to mock us. But you could also find an ounce of the empathy that makes us better than them and actually work with us instead.
posted by hydropsyche at 5:25 AM on June 24, 2017 [104 favorites]
Congress: Meh
GA SoS Kemp: Tain't never happent *spit*
MSM: And down the stretch they come!! Hoo doggies ain't this fucked up!
--8 months later--
Feds: Still have the tapes. Heres a flash drive with 'em on there.
Congress: Wha-wha-whaaaaaaaaaaaaa?!?!??
GA SoS Kemp: Still say ain't happent. Youkin ask Handel'll look int'it. *grin* *spit*
MSM: Woweee gosh!! Ain't this a corker!!
My mom is from Georgia, and my dad is from NC. I have lived in either NC or Georgia basically my entire life. I do not talk like this, and neither does anyone I know. When I lived in Athens, GA 15 years ago, Brian Kemp was my state representative. I have heard him speak a number of times, including when he gave the single worst commencement address I have ever heard. He doesn't talk like this, because nobody on earth talks like this. He talks like a fucking lawyer asshole because that is what he is.
I know that it is still quite fashionable to make fun of those of us from the US Southeast. I know you think we're all dumb white rednecks who deserve the governments we have. But remember that Georgia is 39% non-white. Remember that Hilary won 45% of the vote here. And remember that the people of Georgia, people who you enjoy mocking, are actually Kemp's victims here as he has repeatedly chosen to run elections on black box paperless voting machines that he knew to be unsecured, to illegally purge our voter rolls, and to do nothing while our voter rolls, including our social security numbers, are released to the fucking KKK.
Yes, it's fun to mock us. But you could also find an ounce of the empathy that makes us better than them and actually work with us instead.
posted by hydropsyche at 5:25 AM on June 24, 2017 [104 favorites]
I'm breaking a personal rule about commenting on an American problem, but...
chris24 has posted a tweet from Hillary that mentioned Death Panels. Why has it taken so long for you guys to pick up on this? Why haven't you learned about re-branding? All that chatter about whether or not to take the high road -- just stop saying "Health Bill" (or ACA or whatever) and call it the Death Bill. Got it? That's your message, that's the term you use in the Facebook ads you buy, that's... Oh, fuck it. It's not my country.
posted by CCBC at 8:16 PM on June 24 [5 favorites +] [!]
As an American, I give you honorary pundit privileges.
Death Bill. Death Bill. Death Bill. (I wasn't looking into a mirror, that was not summoning it, go away Grim Reaper)
posted by saysthis at 5:38 AM on June 24, 2017 [8 favorites]
chris24 has posted a tweet from Hillary that mentioned Death Panels. Why has it taken so long for you guys to pick up on this? Why haven't you learned about re-branding? All that chatter about whether or not to take the high road -- just stop saying "Health Bill" (or ACA or whatever) and call it the Death Bill. Got it? That's your message, that's the term you use in the Facebook ads you buy, that's... Oh, fuck it. It's not my country.
posted by CCBC at 8:16 PM on June 24 [5 favorites +] [!]
As an American, I give you honorary pundit privileges.
Death Bill. Death Bill. Death Bill. (I wasn't looking into a mirror, that was not summoning it, go away Grim Reaper)
posted by saysthis at 5:38 AM on June 24, 2017 [8 favorites]
I think the context was more like "Republicans stopped the President from responding to a Russian attack on our democracy, with the implied threat of domestic terrorism. My god, what does Putin have on these people?"
Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan have long been among the most evil fuckers to have power in this country. Both were elected before Putin's 1st term, never mind his current one, and both have been horrible to this country since their early days. McConnell has been angling for this power from day one of his first term, and he's not about to give it up just because a bunch of folks want stuff like the right to be alive. And just because a lot of stupid, bigoted libertarians had both political and literal crushes on Ryan doesn't mean that he's ever been anything but a vile and cruel hypocrite since (as far as I can tell) his teenage years.
I don't even think it's hyperbole to say that, if they could get away with it, they would make deals with any and every dictator in history to prevent someone from getting in the way of them forever eradicating Americans being entitled to things like food and clean water and good health. Shit, they'd go full President Skroob and make us pay for air if it were possible. Putin was just the right guy at the right time, that's all.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:41 AM on June 24, 2017 [15 favorites]
Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan have long been among the most evil fuckers to have power in this country. Both were elected before Putin's 1st term, never mind his current one, and both have been horrible to this country since their early days. McConnell has been angling for this power from day one of his first term, and he's not about to give it up just because a bunch of folks want stuff like the right to be alive. And just because a lot of stupid, bigoted libertarians had both political and literal crushes on Ryan doesn't mean that he's ever been anything but a vile and cruel hypocrite since (as far as I can tell) his teenage years.
I don't even think it's hyperbole to say that, if they could get away with it, they would make deals with any and every dictator in history to prevent someone from getting in the way of them forever eradicating Americans being entitled to things like food and clean water and good health. Shit, they'd go full President Skroob and make us pay for air if it were possible. Putin was just the right guy at the right time, that's all.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:41 AM on June 24, 2017 [15 favorites]
I don't want that this should scare ya (but it does, a lot), but this rumor has been all over the flipping place, which at least means someone's gone to the trouble of spreading it to get people riled up, at a minimum. CNN: Anthony Kennedy retirement watch at a fever pitch
The rumors have swirled for months and the 80-year-old justice has done nothing either personally or though intermediaries to set the record straight on whether he will step down.posted by zachlipton at 6:09 AM on June 24, 2017 [5 favorites]
Helping drive the speculation, dozens of Kennedy's former clerks are traveling to Washington to participate in a private clerk reunion that occurs regularly -- and many of them wonder if it will be their last chance to meet with him while he is still on the bench.
Sources close to Kennedy say that he is seriously considering retirement, but they are unclear if it could occur as early as this term.
In case you are talking to a Republican Senator today, I'd like to point out that in addition to fucking with peoples lives and well being, a bill that takes this much money out of the pockets of the poor and middle class is likely to also fuck the economy. Students strapped due to college debt spend less. Middle-aged people strapped due to medical debt will also spend less. It seems trivial compared to the lives lost, but there will be economic losses in addition to the staggering human losses if this bill passes the Senate.
posted by puddledork at 6:21 AM on June 24, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by puddledork at 6:21 AM on June 24, 2017 [16 favorites]
Apparently they are very upset that people are saying that they are voting to kill people. It's all terribly impolite.
posted by Artw at 6:36 AM on June 24, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:36 AM on June 24, 2017 [24 favorites]
Well, those economic losses will cause a lot of lower-middle-class families to drop into just plain lower-class families.
Some families will drop into a vicious cycle of poverty that, if they're are lucky, they'll be able to dig their way out of in a generation or two.
The odds that a major health problem turns into a life-threatening health problem are a lot higher if you're poor.
The causes aren't direct so you can't really say how many deaths each one causes but recessions have death tolls too.
posted by VTX at 6:37 AM on June 24, 2017 [5 favorites]
Some families will drop into a vicious cycle of poverty that, if they're are lucky, they'll be able to dig their way out of in a generation or two.
The odds that a major health problem turns into a life-threatening health problem are a lot higher if you're poor.
The causes aren't direct so you can't really say how many deaths each one causes but recessions have death tolls too.
posted by VTX at 6:37 AM on June 24, 2017 [5 favorites]
How Trump and Republicans may get away with hurting millions of people
Cutting spending on the poor to facilitate a huge tax cut for the rich, in many ways, is the plan. But what if a large majority of Americans don’t have a clear sense that the plan even does this? A new Kaiser Family Foundation poll out today suggests this may be the case, which hints at a number of troubling things about where this debate is headed next.
...
All of this suggests that in some key ways, the GOP strategy is working. Republicans have gone to enormous lengths to obscure the plan’s profoundly regressive features. They have endlessly told the lie that no one will be worse off (because everyone will have “access” to affordable coverage), and they’ve developed numerous cleverly designed talking points designed to create the impression that, by slowly phasing in the loss of coverage for millions over time, this will create a painless transition to … well, to a blissful state in which everyone, again, has “access” to affordable coverage. Among these: “Smooth glide path.” “Rescue mission.” “Bridge to better health care.” “Soft landing.”
Medicaid isn't about politics, it's about lives
Just one face of lifetime limits
"A lifetime cap on benefits is the same as saying, "Sorry, you're not worth keeping alive anymore. You're just too expensive."'
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:42 AM on June 24, 2017 [39 favorites]
Cutting spending on the poor to facilitate a huge tax cut for the rich, in many ways, is the plan. But what if a large majority of Americans don’t have a clear sense that the plan even does this? A new Kaiser Family Foundation poll out today suggests this may be the case, which hints at a number of troubling things about where this debate is headed next.
...
All of this suggests that in some key ways, the GOP strategy is working. Republicans have gone to enormous lengths to obscure the plan’s profoundly regressive features. They have endlessly told the lie that no one will be worse off (because everyone will have “access” to affordable coverage), and they’ve developed numerous cleverly designed talking points designed to create the impression that, by slowly phasing in the loss of coverage for millions over time, this will create a painless transition to … well, to a blissful state in which everyone, again, has “access” to affordable coverage. Among these: “Smooth glide path.” “Rescue mission.” “Bridge to better health care.” “Soft landing.”
Medicaid isn't about politics, it's about lives
Just one face of lifetime limits
"A lifetime cap on benefits is the same as saying, "Sorry, you're not worth keeping alive anymore. You're just too expensive."'
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:42 AM on June 24, 2017 [39 favorites]
Hey, 15000 plus American deaths a year-- that's worse than any terrorist attack. The GOP IS working hard to kill people, the least we can do for them is point this fact out. After all, if they didn't want to kill Americans, they could figure out a way.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:44 AM on June 24, 2017 [46 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:44 AM on June 24, 2017 [46 favorites]
Having Trump lose and then convince HIS followers that the election was rigged and the government illegitimate could have led to serious and ongoing violence.
You'd be betting on Trump to be some sort of leader in that scenario. Repeat: Trump would have to lead, really lead, something w/o the entirety of the US government at his disposal. (% chance: Nah)
So the core argument here, if I understand it, is that because Trump and McConnell threatened chaos and violence, it was the right thing to do for Obama to withhold evidence of Russian hacking?
No, even if McConnell went along with Trump's tough guy rhetoric that's still not incumbent on Obama to single-handedly resolve this. To re-set an already unconscionably long campaign is not possible by the office of the President. Congress has to sign on 100%. And they, under the chelonian waddle of Mitch McFuckace refused outright on the grounds that they might get to destroy everything if they kept it quiet for three more months.
Obama could have done more - but Congress actually supressed the story. THEY are still around the halls of power, btw, and could theoretically fix some of this even now, today, but they are wrongheaded arrogant shitbags.
Is there such a thing? It's just "intelligence" so far, I thought. We don't know what form it is in.
That's true, but it notes that it captured "specific instructions" from Putin whic I take to mean text, audio, or video. Any would do if it's agreed to be genuine.
Yes, it's fun to mock us.
Especially if you're One of Us. Indeed. Racist ignorant arrogant toady shitbag portrayed as racist, ignorant, arrogant, toadying shitbag with a drawl; I'm good with it. There are lots of battles to restore the reputation of The Beautiful South but artistic license in the service of resolving longstanding societal evil is not at the tippy top. Blame Kemp for acting like a small-town hick sheriff (and continuing to do so n the face of all available evidence). MmmHmmm.
posted by petebest at 6:51 AM on June 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
You'd be betting on Trump to be some sort of leader in that scenario. Repeat: Trump would have to lead, really lead, something w/o the entirety of the US government at his disposal. (% chance: Nah)
So the core argument here, if I understand it, is that because Trump and McConnell threatened chaos and violence, it was the right thing to do for Obama to withhold evidence of Russian hacking?
No, even if McConnell went along with Trump's tough guy rhetoric that's still not incumbent on Obama to single-handedly resolve this. To re-set an already unconscionably long campaign is not possible by the office of the President. Congress has to sign on 100%. And they, under the chelonian waddle of Mitch McFuckace refused outright on the grounds that they might get to destroy everything if they kept it quiet for three more months.
Obama could have done more - but Congress actually supressed the story. THEY are still around the halls of power, btw, and could theoretically fix some of this even now, today, but they are wrongheaded arrogant shitbags.
Is there such a thing? It's just "intelligence" so far, I thought. We don't know what form it is in.
That's true, but it notes that it captured "specific instructions" from Putin whic I take to mean text, audio, or video. Any would do if it's agreed to be genuine.
Yes, it's fun to mock us.
Especially if you're One of Us. Indeed. Racist ignorant arrogant toady shitbag portrayed as racist, ignorant, arrogant, toadying shitbag with a drawl; I'm good with it. There are lots of battles to restore the reputation of The Beautiful South but artistic license in the service of resolving longstanding societal evil is not at the tippy top. Blame Kemp for acting like a small-town hick sheriff (and continuing to do so n the face of all available evidence). MmmHmmm.
posted by petebest at 6:51 AM on June 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
Hey, 15000 plus American deaths a year-- that's worse than any terrorist attack.
Hey, now there's some potent framing.
The GOP are about to kill more Americans than terrorists could ever dream of.
The GOP is helping the terrorists kill Americans.
Terrorists love what the GOP is about to do to Americans.
The Republican health care bill is medical terrorism.
Just "GOP" and "terrorists" in the same phrase, over and over.
Normally I don't like borrowing from the wingnut playbook, but something inside me snapped when I saw those "Left-wing violence will continue if John Ossoff is elected" ads.
posted by Rykey at 6:54 AM on June 24, 2017 [71 favorites]
Hey, now there's some potent framing.
The GOP are about to kill more Americans than terrorists could ever dream of.
The GOP is helping the terrorists kill Americans.
Terrorists love what the GOP is about to do to Americans.
The Republican health care bill is medical terrorism.
Just "GOP" and "terrorists" in the same phrase, over and over.
Normally I don't like borrowing from the wingnut playbook, but something inside me snapped when I saw those "Left-wing violence will continue if John Ossoff is elected" ads.
posted by Rykey at 6:54 AM on June 24, 2017 [71 favorites]
Apparently they are very upset that people are saying that they are voting to kill people. It's all terribly impolite.
'Death panels' you motherfuckers. You were lying to say we were going to kill people. You literally will be. To steal a phrase you're familiar with, fuck your feelings.
posted by chris24 at 7:04 AM on June 24, 2017 [23 favorites]
'Death panels' you motherfuckers. You were lying to say we were going to kill people. You literally will be. To steal a phrase you're familiar with, fuck your feelings.
posted by chris24 at 7:04 AM on June 24, 2017 [23 favorites]
National Treasure Alexandra Petri 'interviews' for White House press secretary (video).
"As a woman who writes on the internet, I'm used to people yelling at me for just doing my job!"
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:05 AM on June 24, 2017 [6 favorites]
"As a woman who writes on the internet, I'm used to people yelling at me for just doing my job!"
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:05 AM on June 24, 2017 [6 favorites]
National Treasure Alexandra Petri 'interviews' for White House press secretary (video).
Lol. The pre-roll ad is for Goldman-Sachs.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 7:11 AM on June 24, 2017
Lol. The pre-roll ad is for Goldman-Sachs.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 7:11 AM on June 24, 2017
his wife Elaine Chao (Trump's unqualified Transportation Secretary who was also Bush II's unqualified Labor Secretary?)
And who was also Deputy Secretary of Transportation before that. She can still be a bad person with bad politics even though her actual bio and background don't give you access to the same easy adjectives and narrative as other Trump appointees. in fact, she is. how about that.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:18 AM on June 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
And who was also Deputy Secretary of Transportation before that. She can still be a bad person with bad politics even though her actual bio and background don't give you access to the same easy adjectives and narrative as other Trump appointees. in fact, she is. how about that.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:18 AM on June 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
Mike Lee is not a corporate Republican, he does think those things are bad.
Mike Lee is one of four Republicans to get a 100% rating from the billionaire corporate business lobby Club for Growth along with Rand Paul, Ron Johnson, Jim DeMint, and Tom Coburn. That about as corporate a Republican as it gets. Mike Lee is the Tea Party guy who primaried and beat Bob effing Bennett for being too liberal.
Basically, he's suggesting states be allowed to do their own thing because it's impossible to make a good bill federally that everyone will agree on.
Which is the same excuse conservatives made about slavery, the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act, Brown vs Board of Education, miscegenation laws, sodomy laws, same sex marriage and on and on.
posted by JackFlash at 8:02 AM on June 24, 2017 [44 favorites]
Mike Lee is one of four Republicans to get a 100% rating from the billionaire corporate business lobby Club for Growth along with Rand Paul, Ron Johnson, Jim DeMint, and Tom Coburn. That about as corporate a Republican as it gets. Mike Lee is the Tea Party guy who primaried and beat Bob effing Bennett for being too liberal.
Basically, he's suggesting states be allowed to do their own thing because it's impossible to make a good bill federally that everyone will agree on.
Which is the same excuse conservatives made about slavery, the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act, Brown vs Board of Education, miscegenation laws, sodomy laws, same sex marriage and on and on.
posted by JackFlash at 8:02 AM on June 24, 2017 [44 favorites]
One thing I don't understand, and maybe the CBO analysis will illuminate: if the Medicaid cuts are phased in, but the tax cuts are immediate (and retroactive, at that!), how the hell is this revenue-neutral over the short term? Won't slashing revenues immediately without a corresponding immediate reduction in expenses produce net budget deficit?
posted by jackbishop at 8:05 AM on June 24, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by jackbishop at 8:05 AM on June 24, 2017 [5 favorites]
One thing it might be worth pointing out to Senators in poorer states is this bill gives a giant tax cut to people who do not live in your state. They live in NY, TX, CO, and CA for the most part. The people who DO live in your state and that you supposedly represent will suffer and die so that out-of-state elites can put more money in their bank account.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:21 AM on June 24, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:21 AM on June 24, 2017 [21 favorites]
TPM Ivanka Trump Ordered To Testify In Dispute With Shoe Company
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:26 AM on June 24, 2017 [33 favorites]
In a declaration filed with the court last week, Trump described herself as the former president of the company, saying she is now an assistant to the Republican president of the United States and maintains an office in the White House.Ha! How delicious. Another line of Trump bullshit comes back to bite the speaker in the ass. The judge in the case has ruled that she can be deposed for two hours at a time mutually agreed upon-- big whoop-- but I am glad her own words means she can't weasel out of it entirely.
“I had no involvement in the conception, design, production or sale of the ‘Hettie Shoe,'” she said, adding that those responsibilities belonged to the company’s licensee, Marc Fisher, which was also sued.
“My involvement was strictly limited to the final sign-off of each season’s line after it was first reviewed and approved by the company’s design team,” Trump said.
In requesting Trump’s testimony, Aquazzura’s lawyers cited public statements by Trump, including one in which she was quoted saying: “There’s not a shoe I’m not intimately involved in designing.”
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:26 AM on June 24, 2017 [33 favorites]
VOX Senate GOP expected to add new penalties for the uninsured into their health bill
I listened to VOX's podcast this morning and my take away is that they still plan on a lot of tweaking. This is far from a final version of BHCA.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:41 AM on June 24, 2017 [13 favorites]
Senate Republicans are expected to revise their health bill early next week, adding in a provision that could lock Americans out of the individual market for six months if they fail to maintain continuous insurance coverage.So if you are planning on being in a car accident or getting cancer or even just getting pregnant better get your coverage now. When my husband and I added maternal coverage to our purchased health insurance in the 90's coverage did not actually kick in for one year. Too bad if you accidentally got pregnant and didn't want or could not get an abortion.
Health insurance industry sources familiar with the plan say the change could be announced as early as Monday.
I listened to VOX's podcast this morning and my take away is that they still plan on a lot of tweaking. This is far from a final version of BHCA.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:41 AM on June 24, 2017 [13 favorites]
> Apparently they are very upset that people are saying that they are voting to kill people. It's all terribly impolite.
Tone Policing: It’s A Nice Racket
Tone Policing: It’s A Nice Racket
Republicans are rushing to push a piece of naked class warfare that will result in a lot of unnecessary deaths. Republicans are using an undemocratic process that strongly indicates a bill they don’t believe it can be defended on the merits to anybody but a sociopathic libertarian, and they’re right. So instead, their approach will be specious invocations of CIVILITY:posted by tonycpsu at 8:45 AM on June 24, 2017 [34 favorites]@senorrinhatch: The brief time when we were *not* accusing those we disagree with of murder was nice while it lasted.What you will notice, as more and more Republicans use this line, is that most people won’t dispute Bernie’s claim at all, and those that do will offer nothing but bare assertions — because, after all, stripping insurance from tens of millions of people will cause many people to die (as well as many more people to suffer unnecessarily and/or face financial ruin.) The point is just to preemptively demand that people not discuss the inevitable consequences of the bill, based on the longstanding principle that accurately describing a Republican’s policy views is that greatest act of incivility that can ever be committed. [...]
Personally, if I found myself using needed to use “will millions of people die” as a metric to measure the benefits of legislation I supported, I would be inclined to revise my ideological commitments.
GOP is going to go out of its way to make anyone upset they were shot at look like the people who gofunded NCGOP after their fire.
posted by Artw at 8:51 AM on June 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 8:51 AM on June 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
Senator Hatch knows the difference between first-degree murder and willful neglect resulting in death. He and his colleagues are not personally murdering individuals one at a time; they are simply restructuring American wealth to return it to its rightful distribution, and if a subclass happens to suffer or die because of it, well, it's not personal. It's more of an abstract side effect.
At least that's how those of them still possessing a buried shred of conscience get to sleep at night.
posted by delfin at 9:01 AM on June 24, 2017
At least that's how those of them still possessing a buried shred of conscience get to sleep at night.
posted by delfin at 9:01 AM on June 24, 2017
Tone policing for some, miniature American flags White House visits and cushy political appointments for others:
Right-wingers can complain all they want about "the angry left," but "the angry right" is welcome in the White House. It's not just Ted Nugent. It's this guy:posted by tonycpsu at 9:03 AM on June 24, 2017 [63 favorites]An adviser to Donald Trump’s campaign who said Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton should be shot for treason was given a prime seat at a White House bill-signing ceremony on Friday. [...] Baldasaro, in a radio interview during the campaign, criticized Clinton for the 2012 attack on a U.S. compound in Benghazi, Libya, and said she should be “put in the firing line and shot for treason.” Trump later praised Baldasaro.And then there's this Trump appointee:
Before William C. Bradford was appointed by the Trump administration to run the Energy Department’s Office of Indian Energy, he tweeted a slew of disparaging remarks about the real and imagined ethnic, religious and gender identities of former president Barack Obama, Facebook co-founder Mark Zuckerberg, TV news host Megyn Kelly and Japanese Americans during World War II. [...]Let me say it again: This man has a job in the Trump administration.
Johnny Depp joked about a Trump assassination (and has now apologized) -- but he's not in the government. Neither is Kathy Griffin (who's lost work for her Trump death joke).
Phil Montag, a Nebraska Democratic Party official who made offensive remarks about Representative Steve Scalise, has lost his job. Al Baldasaro, by contrast, is still a New Hampshire state legislator.
There's intemperate speech on all sides -- but increasingly there's no penalty for it on the right.
Senator Hatch knows the difference between first-degree murder and willful neglect resulting in death. He and his colleagues are not personally murdering individuals one at a time; they are simply restructuring American wealth to return it to its rightful distribution, and if a subclass happens to suffer or die because of it, well, it's not personal. It's more of an abstract side effect.
Yes, but here's the thing. Government often passes regulations that cost money to prevent Americans from dying. Seat belts. Mandatory car seats for children. Safety regulations in construction. Asbestos. Bicycle helmets. Mandatory fire safety installations, etc. If you can prove a direct line to something increasing the number of dead Americans-- aside from guns, of course-- usually the government will interfere with the free market There is a direct line from uninsured Americans to an increase in dead Americans. I don't know why medical insurance should be unregulated to the point where most people cannot afford it.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 9:20 AM on June 24, 2017 [11 favorites]
Yes, but here's the thing. Government often passes regulations that cost money to prevent Americans from dying. Seat belts. Mandatory car seats for children. Safety regulations in construction. Asbestos. Bicycle helmets. Mandatory fire safety installations, etc. If you can prove a direct line to something increasing the number of dead Americans-- aside from guns, of course-- usually the government will interfere with the free market There is a direct line from uninsured Americans to an increase in dead Americans. I don't know why medical insurance should be unregulated to the point where most people cannot afford it.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 9:20 AM on June 24, 2017 [11 favorites]
Obamacare: Get insurance, if you can afford it, or pay a penalty, if you can afford it, otherwise no penalty. The penalty is not legally enforced.
Trumpcare: Get insurance, or YOU CAN'T GET INSURANCE
nice work guys thanks for making america great again and all that
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:20 AM on June 24, 2017 [36 favorites]
Trumpcare: Get insurance, or YOU CAN'T GET INSURANCE
nice work guys thanks for making america great again and all that
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:20 AM on June 24, 2017 [36 favorites]
William C. Bradford also had to resign from West Point for suggesting that law professors who objected to torture should be attacked, and had to resign from Indiana University for allegedy exaggerating his military service. And is apparently still lying about his credentials....
posted by Emera Gratia at 9:22 AM on June 24, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Emera Gratia at 9:22 AM on June 24, 2017 [8 favorites]
I can't stop thinking about that paragraph about October 7th from the Washington Post article:
3:30pm - the first official US government statement that senior Russian officials ordered interference in the election.
4:00pm - Access Hollywood tape drops.
4:30pm - Wikileaks starts leaking Podesta emails.
Seems like all of the election is summed up in that hour and a half: a crucial but bland intelligence story which is overshadowed by despicable Trump behavior, all muddied by Russian disinformation.
posted by bluecore at 9:36 AM on June 24, 2017 [90 favorites]
3:30pm - the first official US government statement that senior Russian officials ordered interference in the election.
4:00pm - Access Hollywood tape drops.
4:30pm - Wikileaks starts leaking Podesta emails.
Seems like all of the election is summed up in that hour and a half: a crucial but bland intelligence story which is overshadowed by despicable Trump behavior, all muddied by Russian disinformation.
posted by bluecore at 9:36 AM on June 24, 2017 [90 favorites]
Senator Hatch knows the difference between first-degree murder and willful neglect resulting in death. He and his colleagues are not personally murdering individuals one at a time; they are simply restructuring American wealth to return it to its rightful distribution, and if a subclass happens to suffer or die because of it, well, it's not personal. It's more of an abstract side effect.
Besides that, he's quoting Bernie Sanders not using the word "murder", but simply saying that "thousands of people will die".
But "murder by spreadsheet" is a completely conventional phrase and is exactly what Republicans are being called out for doing. This isn't GM sending dozens of people to their deaths to save money on an ignition switch though, it's big league political murder by spreadsheet.
They should be thankful they aren't being accused of human sacrifice on the altar of the God of Greed which would be even more apropos. Since this thread about historical perspectives on the Civil War I've been seriously wondering if people hundreds of years from now (hopefully there will still be people around) may group together with human sacrifice many things from this current era like the murder by spreadsheet and our ever-higher-civilian-casualty-rate wars.
posted by XMLicious at 9:53 AM on June 24, 2017 [8 favorites]
There is a direct line from uninsured Americans to an increase in dead Americans. I don't know why medical insurance should be unregulated to the point where most people cannot afford it.
You know this. I know this. ORRIN knows this. Which is why Orrin is using tricks of phrasing to try to pass off the blood on his hands as red paint and suggesting those who know it's blood are the real extremists.
But whether death is by stabbing or linguistics means little to the dead.
posted by delfin at 10:19 AM on June 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
You know this. I know this. ORRIN knows this. Which is why Orrin is using tricks of phrasing to try to pass off the blood on his hands as red paint and suggesting those who know it's blood are the real extremists.
But whether death is by stabbing or linguistics means little to the dead.
posted by delfin at 10:19 AM on June 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
Politico The surprising GOP holdout on the Senate’s health bill
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:31 AM on June 24, 2017 [11 favorites]
Johnson, as well as the other Senate conservatives opposing the original draft, have been careful to leave wiggle room for negotiation, honoring McConnell's request to not publicly slam the door shut. Republicans working on the bill believe they can win over the Wisconsinite by connecting him with experts and officials who can address his concerns, such as CEOs of insurance companies or Wisconsin institutions.They always emphasize the first part of their promise, "repeal Obamacare" but always forget the second half "replace it with something better." This is not better and no amount of meetings with CEOs of insurance companies is going to make it better for the people who need health insurance.
“I’ve been voicing this repeatedly throughout the process,” Johnson said of his need for information. After Thursday’s meeting where Senate leaders unveiled the legislation, “I had a number of staff members come over offering to provide whatever information I need, which is good.”
GOP leaders say the strongest argument they have for winning over Johnson — or any other Republican on the fence — is that they all promised to repeal Obamacare.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:31 AM on June 24, 2017 [11 favorites]
Also it's only human sacrifice if they acknowledge that we're human, which they feel like the last election proved wasn't necessary.
posted by delfin at 10:34 AM on June 24, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by delfin at 10:34 AM on June 24, 2017 [12 favorites]
Oh Lord.
@kyle Griffin There's a bunch of alt-right, ultra-conservative figures holding a rally Sunday outside the White House.
The announcement reads: Corey Stewart will be speaking at the Rally Against Political Violence hosted by Jack Pobosiec this Sunday outside the White House in Lafayette Park
Sunday 12:00 to 2:00
List of speakers Confirmed appearing include Roger Stone, Mike Cernovich, Michael Flynn, Jr. and many more.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:48 AM on June 24, 2017 [16 favorites]
@kyle Griffin There's a bunch of alt-right, ultra-conservative figures holding a rally Sunday outside the White House.
The announcement reads: Corey Stewart will be speaking at the Rally Against Political Violence hosted by Jack Pobosiec this Sunday outside the White House in Lafayette Park
Sunday 12:00 to 2:00
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:48 AM on June 24, 2017 [16 favorites]
Yesterday morning's Democracy Now! (alt link, .torrent, some transcripts) had some good discussions on the health care bill with Amy Goodman interviewing Professor John McDonough of the Harvard Chan School of Public Health who helped to design RomneyCare in Massachusetts, Dr. Steffie Woolhandler of CUNY-Hunter College who also lectures at Harvard, and Dr. Willie Parker, chair of the board of Physicians for Reproductive Health, including this detail from Dr. Woolhandler I hadn't heard elsewhere about a specific tax cut:
But I do want to just talk a little bit about how the taxes are—these big tax windfalls are going to come to the rich. What the Republican bill does is says that rich people who get their income from investments no longer have to pay the Medicare tax. People who earn in wages and salaries have to pay a 3 to 4 percent Medicare tax. But the Republican Senate and House bills will say that rich people earning $100 million a year off of investments, through stock sales and dividends, no longer have to pay that same Medicare tax that the rest of us pay.posted by XMLicious at 11:05 AM on June 24, 2017 [8 favorites]
Isn't it amazing how the christian right will fight tooth and nail against teaching evolution, but embrace the bullshit that is social darwinism in the very next breath.
posted by OHenryPacey at 11:07 AM on June 24, 2017 [49 favorites]
posted by OHenryPacey at 11:07 AM on June 24, 2017 [49 favorites]
the immediate halt of payments to terrorists and their families.
Can somebody give me some context on this, please?
posted by Rykey at 12:24 PM on June 24, 2017
Can somebody give me some context on this, please?
posted by Rykey at 12:24 PM on June 24, 2017
> the immediate halt of payments to terrorists and their families.
Can somebody give me some context on this, please?
I don't have a comprehensive understanding but I've seen this mentioned in other Israeli sources. Here's a politically conservative U.S.-based publication:
Palestinian Authority Paid Out Over $1 Billion for Terror Over the Past Four Years
with the footer:
posted by XMLicious at 12:50 PM on June 24, 2017
Can somebody give me some context on this, please?
I don't have a comprehensive understanding but I've seen this mentioned in other Israeli sources. Here's a politically conservative U.S.-based publication:
Palestinian Authority Paid Out Over $1 Billion for Terror Over the Past Four Years
with the footer:
The above is a collated and lightly-edited translation of remarks delivered by the author before the Israeli Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee on May 29, 2017.It references the Taylor Force Act which Lindsey Graham and others proposed in the Senate last year.
Brigadier General (Reserve) Yosef Kuperwasser led the Research and Assessment Division of Israeli Military Intelligence. He is currently a Senior Project Director at the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs.
posted by XMLicious at 12:50 PM on June 24, 2017
President Donald Trump is reportedly weighing whether to pull out of Israeli-Palestinian peace negotiations following a "tense" meeting
When the going gets tough, the Donald punks out.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:51 PM on June 24, 2017 [7 favorites]
Can't wait to see Jared tackle the opioid epidemic. Wonder if his solution will involve doping the available supply with rat poison to discourage people shooting up...
posted by PenDevil at 12:55 PM on June 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by PenDevil at 12:55 PM on June 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
Anne Applebaum/WaPo Op-Ed: Why ‘Mattis in charge’ is a formula for disaster
The Guardian: Trump officials oppose funding museum for victims of Tuskegee syphilis study
posted by zachlipton at 1:05 PM on June 24, 2017 [46 favorites]
A military policy run solely by the Pentagon creates confusion, too. U.S. allies may be relieved to hear the Pentagon’s quiet offers to protect them. But if America’s allies are listening to Mattis, America’s enemies are watching the White House, and they will make decisions based on the president’s behavior, not that of his defense chief. Russia will have noticed Trump’s chilly treatment of Europe and his attacks on Sweden and Germany. North Korea will have heard his demands for more money from South Korea. The gap between the Pentagon’s worldview and that of the White House is so wide that it is actually dangerous: It may lull allies into complacency, while luring enemies into adventurism.There's another essay's worth of material on Tillerson and Trump running completely opposing foreign policy operations, and the Qatar crisis is a stark demonstration of the damage that can cause.
The Guardian: Trump officials oppose funding museum for victims of Tuskegee syphilis study
The Trump administration is opposing an attempt to use unclaimed money from a legal settlement over the government’s infamous Tuskegee syphilis study to fund a museum honoring its victims.For BCRA, this is a big deal from Sen. Chris Murphy, and he nicely explains why:
The justice department argued in court documents recently that providing the money to the Tuskegee Human and Civil Rights Multicultural Center would violate an agreement reached in 1975 to settle a class-action lawsuit.
...
The government said that it “does not intend in any way to justify, condone, or defend the Tuskegee syphilis study” but contended that allowing remaining money from a $9m settlement to be used for the museum would violate the original provision that any leftover money go back to the government.
1/ As ranking Dem on Approps Subcommittee overseeing CBO, I asked if they would score insurance losses outside 10 yr window. They said yes.Assuming those numbers come out in time, they should be far worse than the normal 10-year number.
2/ I sent CBO a follow up letter today stressing that data on coverage losses outside 10 yr window must come simultenous to main CBO report.
3/ This may seem in the weeds, but it's so important. GOP is hiding the worst Medicaid cuts in years 11, 12, 13 and hoping CBO stays quiet.
4/ My letter also asks CBO to confirm they are scoring the bill as written, WITHOUT an insurance mandate.
5/ This is critical too bc w/o a mandate the uninsured numbers skyrocket. GOP didn't include mandate for political/procedural reasons.
posted by zachlipton at 1:05 PM on June 24, 2017 [46 favorites]
The Trump fanned fight between Saudi Arabia and Qatar is going to have repercussions in Africa.
Africa on the Horn of a dilemma: Since 2010, a 450-strong force of Qatari peacekeepers has kept a firm lid on tensions in the area, ensuring that neither side encroaches on a buffer zone designed to keep them apart. But Qatar suddenly has bigger problems. Saudi Arabia, with the support of the United Arab Emirates (UAE) and Egypt, among others, has accused the tiny emirate of sponsoring terrorism and has imposed a land, sea and air blockade.
Fighting fires on many fronts, Qatar decided that Ras Doumeira would no longer be one of them. Doubtless contributing to this decision is the fact that Eritrea has been vocal in its support for Saudi Arabia and the UAE, which both have a military presence there.
Last week, without much warning, and without waiting for a replacement force, Qatar withdrew its peacekeepers from the disputed territory.
posted by PenDevil at 1:09 PM on June 24, 2017 [7 favorites]
Africa on the Horn of a dilemma: Since 2010, a 450-strong force of Qatari peacekeepers has kept a firm lid on tensions in the area, ensuring that neither side encroaches on a buffer zone designed to keep them apart. But Qatar suddenly has bigger problems. Saudi Arabia, with the support of the United Arab Emirates (UAE) and Egypt, among others, has accused the tiny emirate of sponsoring terrorism and has imposed a land, sea and air blockade.
Fighting fires on many fronts, Qatar decided that Ras Doumeira would no longer be one of them. Doubtless contributing to this decision is the fact that Eritrea has been vocal in its support for Saudi Arabia and the UAE, which both have a military presence there.
Last week, without much warning, and without waiting for a replacement force, Qatar withdrew its peacekeepers from the disputed territory.
posted by PenDevil at 1:09 PM on June 24, 2017 [7 favorites]
Mod note: One deleted. Gonna stipulate that we aren't arguing about Israel/Palestine in this thread.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 1:24 PM on June 24, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 1:24 PM on June 24, 2017 [5 favorites]
Can't wait to see Jared tackle the opioid epidemic. Wonder if his solution will involve doping the available supply with rat poison to discourage people shooting up...
What? Don't be silly. That's just not how the Trump family does things. Where's the profit in it? In fact, it's just spending money on good rat poison for no good reason!
Now a Trump solution would be to get other members of the family to dump every dollar they can get their hands on into the GEO Group and have Papa Trump announce that his plan is for the fed to pay for detox centers installed into private jails along with paying for the staff. Oh and the private jail can bill any insurance or Medicaid they can lay their hands on.
posted by Talez at 1:32 PM on June 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
What? Don't be silly. That's just not how the Trump family does things. Where's the profit in it? In fact, it's just spending money on good rat poison for no good reason!
Now a Trump solution would be to get other members of the family to dump every dollar they can get their hands on into the GEO Group and have Papa Trump announce that his plan is for the fed to pay for detox centers installed into private jails along with paying for the staff. Oh and the private jail can bill any insurance or Medicaid they can lay their hands on.
posted by Talez at 1:32 PM on June 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
Can't wait to see Jared tackle the opioid epidemic. Wonder if his solution will involve doping the available supply with rat poison to discourage people shooting up...
Why alter the supply when you can take the idealized right-wing social-Darwinist approach? Shut down detox programs and turn a blind eye to opioid trafficking, and the problem eventually takes care of itself, in the most Republican way possible. 'Let the marketplace decide,' indeed. (Though on preview, extra credit to Talez above for predicting the Trumps to angle for a piece of the action. Grifters gotta grift.)
posted by hangashore at 1:53 PM on June 24, 2017
Why alter the supply when you can take the idealized right-wing social-Darwinist approach? Shut down detox programs and turn a blind eye to opioid trafficking, and the problem eventually takes care of itself, in the most Republican way possible. 'Let the marketplace decide,' indeed. (Though on preview, extra credit to Talez above for predicting the Trumps to angle for a piece of the action. Grifters gotta grift.)
posted by hangashore at 1:53 PM on June 24, 2017
Trump, May 3: "[an Israeli-Palestinian peace deal] is something that I think is frankly, maybe, not as difficult as people have thought over the years.":
Jerusalem Post, June 24: Report: Trump may exit peace talks after 'tense' Kushner/Abbas meeting.
Unfortunately the traditional method of ignoring or tuning out bullshitters and liars isn't an option with Donny Two Scoops. Theoretically the press would bear down on his endless stream of bullshit and he'd . . . do . . . something, but, that's not an option either.
posted by petebest at 2:21 PM on June 24, 2017
Jerusalem Post, June 24: Report: Trump may exit peace talks after 'tense' Kushner/Abbas meeting.
Unfortunately the traditional method of ignoring or tuning out bullshitters and liars isn't an option with Donny Two Scoops. Theoretically the press would bear down on his endless stream of bullshit and he'd . . . do . . . something, but, that's not an option either.
posted by petebest at 2:21 PM on June 24, 2017
He's tweeting again. Continues to point finger at Obama admin (for not properly dealing with Russian meddling he denies having happened?) -- also appears to be first time he has referred to himself as "T" 🙄
posted by Barack Spinoza at 2:21 PM on June 24, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Barack Spinoza at 2:21 PM on June 24, 2017 [7 favorites]
Meanwhile, among the things O did in response to Russian meddling is launch the investigation into T's campaign.
posted by notyou at 2:32 PM on June 24, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by notyou at 2:32 PM on June 24, 2017 [6 favorites]
Neocons Cheer As Trump's Military Escalation in Syria Risks Kicking off Global War
In an article in Foreign Affairs, the notorious Iran-contra figure Elliott Abrams applauded Trump for his “surprisingly standard foreign policy. Neocon posterboy Adams was
criminally convicted of misleading Congress over the Iran-contra scandal.
It's only missing John Bolton to cheer it all on.
posted by adamvasco at 2:44 PM on June 24, 2017 [6 favorites]
In an article in Foreign Affairs, the notorious Iran-contra figure Elliott Abrams applauded Trump for his “surprisingly standard foreign policy. Neocon posterboy Adams was
criminally convicted of misleading Congress over the Iran-contra scandal.
It's only missing John Bolton to cheer it all on.
posted by adamvasco at 2:44 PM on June 24, 2017 [6 favorites]
Since it seems Wittes' bomb didn't go off on Friday, can we speculate on its contents for Monday?
Wittes mentioned specifically the (all caps version) "WITCH HUNT" tweet, which was the one in which Trump called out the investigation "led by some very bad and conflicted people".
Is a Rosenstein recusal coming?
posted by pjenks at 3:41 PM on June 24, 2017
Wittes mentioned specifically the (all caps version) "WITCH HUNT" tweet, which was the one in which Trump called out the investigation "led by some very bad and conflicted people".
Is a Rosenstein recusal coming?
posted by pjenks at 3:41 PM on June 24, 2017
What would a Rosenstein recusal mean? I thought he was already letting the investigation go ahead.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:23 PM on June 24, 2017
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:23 PM on June 24, 2017
I don't see any particular reason to think Wickes' tweet, even assuming it means anything, has to do with a Rosenstein recusal. A recusal wouldn't come in a newspaper story and that's usually what he is supposedly referencing.
posted by Justinian at 4:28 PM on June 24, 2017
posted by Justinian at 4:28 PM on June 24, 2017
It does seem strange that a bombshell story would be dropped on Monday given the CBO score for the Republican Insurance Plan (R.I.P.) is coming out that morning. You don't want to compete for the headlines.
posted by Justinian at 4:34 PM on June 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 4:34 PM on June 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
Huh.
Bernie and Jane Sanders under FBI investigation.
Is there anybody in fudging politics NOT under FBI investigation?
posted by Justinian at 4:47 PM on June 24, 2017 [10 favorites]
Bernie and Jane Sanders under FBI investigation.
Is there anybody in fudging politics NOT under FBI investigation?
posted by Justinian at 4:47 PM on June 24, 2017 [10 favorites]
What would a Rosenstein recusal mean?
I believe the idea is that Rachel Brand would be acting AG in that case, and she'd be more amenable to going all Jeff Gilooly on Mueller.
posted by rhizome at 4:50 PM on June 24, 2017
I believe the idea is that Rachel Brand would be acting AG in that case, and she'd be more amenable to going all Jeff Gilooly on Mueller.
posted by rhizome at 4:50 PM on June 24, 2017
Bernie and Jane Sanders under FBI investigation.
This is actually an ongoing Vermont-y thing and the fact that it's becoming a thing now rather than before the election is actually probably the way this stuff should go. Though I love the headline, how lawyering up is seen as maybe shifty as opposed to the totally smart thing to do.
posted by jessamyn at 4:59 PM on June 24, 2017 [11 favorites]
This is actually an ongoing Vermont-y thing and the fact that it's becoming a thing now rather than before the election is actually probably the way this stuff should go. Though I love the headline, how lawyering up is seen as maybe shifty as opposed to the totally smart thing to do.
posted by jessamyn at 4:59 PM on June 24, 2017 [11 favorites]
Lawyering and shutting up is absolutely the right thing to do, which is why Trump hired Bob Loblaw and keeps tweeting about his investigations.
I can confirm that I, for one, am not currently under FBI investigation so far as you are aware.
posted by Justinian at 5:02 PM on June 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
I can confirm that I, for one, am not currently under FBI investigation so far as you are aware.
posted by Justinian at 5:02 PM on June 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
Here's another article on the issue alleged to have derailed the Kushner/Abbas meeting, from another U.S. publication The Forward last August:
Palestinian ‘Terror Payments’ — A Complicated History
posted by XMLicious at 5:03 PM on June 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
Palestinian ‘Terror Payments’ — A Complicated History
posted by XMLicious at 5:03 PM on June 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
Though I love the headline, how lawyering up is seen as maybe shifty as opposed to the totally smart thing to do.
Apologies to whoever tweeted something like this yesterday or whenever, "nobody ever says you've 'doctored up' when you get a checkup."
posted by rhizome at 5:09 PM on June 24, 2017 [7 favorites]
Apologies to whoever tweeted something like this yesterday or whenever, "nobody ever says you've 'doctored up' when you get a checkup."
posted by rhizome at 5:09 PM on June 24, 2017 [7 favorites]
There's nothing shameful in getting a lawyer if you're under investigation, but I think it's totally reasonable to ask why someone is under investigation, and potentially criticise the choices that led to it.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:15 PM on June 24, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:15 PM on June 24, 2017 [11 favorites]
Oh hey Julian Assange has proclaimed the Democratic Party doomed, since it will turn out that there's no proof of collusion between DJT and the Russians.
Christ, what an asshole.
posted by Superplin at 5:28 PM on June 24, 2017 [11 favorites]
Christ, what an asshole.
posted by Superplin at 5:28 PM on June 24, 2017 [11 favorites]
Senate health-care bill faces serious resistance from GOP moderates (Juliet Eilperin, Amy Goldstein - WaPo)
A small group of moderate Republican senators, worried that their leaders’ health-care bill could damage the nation’s social safety net, may pose at least as significant an obstacle to the measure’s passage as their colleagues on the right.posted by Barack Spinoza at 5:45 PM on June 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
The vast changes the legislation would make to Medicaid, the country’s broadest source of public health insurance, would represent the largest single step the government has ever taken toward conservatives’ long-held goal of reining in federal spending on health-care entitlement programs in favor of a free-market system.
That dramatic shift and the bill’s bold redistribution of wealth — the billions of dollars taken from coverage for the poor would help fund tax cuts for the wealthy — is creating substantial anxiety for several Republican moderates whose states have especially benefited from the expansion of Medicaid that the Affordable Care Act has allowed since 2014.
Barack Spinoza: That dramatic shift and the bill’s bold redistribution of wealth — the billions of dollars taken from coverage for the poor would help fund tax cuts for the wealthy — is creating substantial anxiety for several Republican moderates whose states have especially benefited from the expansion of Medicaid that the Affordable Care Act has allowed since 2014.
It's not even about the Medicaid expansion; I wish pundits and the media would stop framing it this way. It's about Medicaid, full stop, and trying to roll back LBJ-era provisions. This will take us back to an era before even I was born, and I'm a middle-aged lady. A lot of people who think this is a good idea don't know any better because they've never lived in a world without it--and when the world was without it, there was such a thing as a middle class where people could have a dignified family life, even own a car and a house, on a single blue-collar salary, so many (white, able-bodied) people's social ties looked very different. We no longer inhabit that world, and a big chunk of folks never did.
posted by Superplin at 6:02 PM on June 24, 2017 [41 favorites]
It's not even about the Medicaid expansion; I wish pundits and the media would stop framing it this way. It's about Medicaid, full stop, and trying to roll back LBJ-era provisions. This will take us back to an era before even I was born, and I'm a middle-aged lady. A lot of people who think this is a good idea don't know any better because they've never lived in a world without it--and when the world was without it, there was such a thing as a middle class where people could have a dignified family life, even own a car and a house, on a single blue-collar salary, so many (white, able-bodied) people's social ties looked very different. We no longer inhabit that world, and a big chunk of folks never did.
posted by Superplin at 6:02 PM on June 24, 2017 [41 favorites]
I think what bothers me the most about all of this is that congress has become the Roman Senate, in that they don't represent the people they're elected by, but instead treat the job as a place in the ruling set, answerable only to mamon, in the case of republicans.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 6:03 PM on June 24, 2017 [53 favorites]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 6:03 PM on June 24, 2017 [53 favorites]
The brief time when we were *not* accusing those we disagree with of murder was nice while it lasted. https://t.co/qr1rzon1cg
— Senator Hatch Office (@senorrinhatch) June 23, 2017
I’m very open to thoughtful critiques of the Senate bill from the left. “MILLIONS WILL DIE” is not it.
— Avik Roy (@Avik) June 23, 2017
If there was ever a good sign that the strategy of enumerating exactly how many will be killed is working, these responses are it. I hope moderate Dems don't fall for the tut-tutting, and realize that these sorts of centrist complaints are the best signal of a successful strategy. We need to get the talk shows arguing about whether the left-wing loons who say "millions" are wrong by a factor of 10, or merely a factor of 5.
posted by chortly at 6:30 PM on June 24, 2017 [45 favorites]
— Senator Hatch Office (@senorrinhatch) June 23, 2017
I’m very open to thoughtful critiques of the Senate bill from the left. “MILLIONS WILL DIE” is not it.
— Avik Roy (@Avik) June 23, 2017
If there was ever a good sign that the strategy of enumerating exactly how many will be killed is working, these responses are it. I hope moderate Dems don't fall for the tut-tutting, and realize that these sorts of centrist complaints are the best signal of a successful strategy. We need to get the talk shows arguing about whether the left-wing loons who say "millions" are wrong by a factor of 10, or merely a factor of 5.
posted by chortly at 6:30 PM on June 24, 2017 [45 favorites]
Yep! Since we generally look at a 10 year span when scoring bills I'm willing to be convinced that merely hundreds of thousands will die. So let's get the Republicans arguing that the bill will only result in a few hundred thousand deaths over 10 years, not millions.
posted by Justinian at 6:37 PM on June 24, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 6:37 PM on June 24, 2017 [8 favorites]
Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, generally praised the bill, and said it was better than Obamacare being submerged in a bamboo cage full of rats in "100 ways."
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 6:56 PM on June 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 6:56 PM on June 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oh hey Julian Assange has proclaimed the Democratic Party doomed
What a total Donald this guy is. The Dems have been doomed for the past forty years, easy. Besides claiming "the past yearlong investigation" has "proven no collusion" is not-right-it's-not-even-wrong.
Personally I think Cheney's trbunal at the Hague will overshadow the whole melting democracy thing. Just wait til that bulldog Chuck Todd gets ahold of it.
posted by petebest at 7:03 PM on June 24, 2017
What a total Donald this guy is. The Dems have been doomed for the past forty years, easy. Besides claiming "the past yearlong investigation" has "proven no collusion" is not-right-it's-not-even-wrong.
Personally I think Cheney's trbunal at the Hague will overshadow the whole melting democracy thing. Just wait til that bulldog Chuck Todd gets ahold of it.
posted by petebest at 7:03 PM on June 24, 2017
the republicans have been doomed for the last forty years, too
i can just see both parties going before the american people and saying
"no doomed, no doomed, YOU'RE DOOMED"
posted by pyramid termite at 7:09 PM on June 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
i can just see both parties going before the american people and saying
"no doomed, no doomed, YOU'RE DOOMED"
posted by pyramid termite at 7:09 PM on June 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
Senate health-care bill faces serious resistance from GOP moderates
I'm willling to bet it doesn't.
posted by Artw at 7:11 PM on June 24, 2017 [17 favorites]
I'm willling to bet it doesn't.
posted by Artw at 7:11 PM on June 24, 2017 [17 favorites]
I'm willling to bet it doesn't.
How willing? Eating carrot cake levels of willing?
posted by Talez at 7:15 PM on June 24, 2017 [12 favorites]
How willing? Eating carrot cake levels of willing?
posted by Talez at 7:15 PM on June 24, 2017 [12 favorites]
>> Senate health-care bill faces serious resistance from GOP moderates
> I'm willing to bet it doesn't.
Right on. See also Josh Marshall's Iron Law of Republican Politics: The ‘GOP moderates’ will always cave.
(To be clear, that linked article came before the House moderate Republicans caved, as predicted. The Senate version is here.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 7:19 PM on June 24, 2017 [7 favorites]
> I'm willing to bet it doesn't.
Right on. See also Josh Marshall's Iron Law of Republican Politics: The ‘GOP moderates’ will always cave.
(To be clear, that linked article came before the House moderate Republicans caved, as predicted. The Senate version is here.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 7:19 PM on June 24, 2017 [7 favorites]
CA Democrats shelved SB 562 yesterday. Double fucking super majority and they can't pull the start of single payer together. It wasn't perfect, it wasn't even complete, but it at least started to lay the groundwork which is what is desperately needed for something so ridiculously complicated.
This is what people mean when they say the Democrats' brand is worse than Trump. At least Trump entertains the plebs by trolling liberals. Democrats get everyone excited, come up against something potentially difficult but could still help a lot of people, and shrug their fucking shoulders.
posted by Talez at 7:19 PM on June 24, 2017 [14 favorites]
This is what people mean when they say the Democrats' brand is worse than Trump. At least Trump entertains the plebs by trolling liberals. Democrats get everyone excited, come up against something potentially difficult but could still help a lot of people, and shrug their fucking shoulders.
posted by Talez at 7:19 PM on June 24, 2017 [14 favorites]
Via that Asshonge article was another with this quote from an interview:
“When they’re going to call the President Hitler, fascist, [etc]” she said, “they are ginning up people… The respectable [part of the party] is intentionally ginning up the psychotic [part of the party].”
Which is true and of course its Time Machine Ann Coulter on Some Network That Starts With An F. From last night, regarding all the, probably at least 50 or maybe like 80, mean lefties out there.
It's not like I got evens to give but seriously stahp it you guys you're hurting ontology. The language tubes are busting.
posted by petebest at 7:20 PM on June 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
“When they’re going to call the President Hitler, fascist, [etc]” she said, “they are ginning up people… The respectable [part of the party] is intentionally ginning up the psychotic [part of the party].”
Which is true and of course its Time Machine Ann Coulter on Some Network That Starts With An F. From last night, regarding all the, probably at least 50 or maybe like 80, mean lefties out there.
It's not like I got evens to give but seriously stahp it you guys you're hurting ontology. The language tubes are busting.
posted by petebest at 7:20 PM on June 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
Is there anybody in fudging politics NOT under FBI investigation?
Is there anyone who shouldn't be at this point?
posted by bongo_x at 7:32 PM on June 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
Is there anyone who shouldn't be at this point?
posted by bongo_x at 7:32 PM on June 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
I can confirm that I, for one, am not currently under FBI investigation so far as you are aware.
posted by Justinian at 20:02 on June 24
The new JCPL* is 0.
*Justinian Current Probe Level
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:42 PM on June 24, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 20:02 on June 24
The new JCPL* is 0.
*Justinian Current Probe Level
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:42 PM on June 24, 2017 [17 favorites]
Is there anyone who shouldn't be at this point?
Investigate 'em all. Even the ones I like. Leave no stone unturned.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:24 PM on June 24, 2017 [6 favorites]
Investigate 'em all. Even the ones I like. Leave no stone unturned.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:24 PM on June 24, 2017 [6 favorites]
jason_steakums: "So I guess look forward to McConnell cribbing Trump's "no really it's not a Muslim ban it just happens to ban Muslims like we said it would" defense in the inevitable lawsuit protesting this very obvious bill of attainder."
It's a lousy thing, but saying certain groups aren't eligible for Medicaid funding isn't a bill of attainder. A bill of attainder names a specific person (or group) as guilty of a crime, thus circumventing the judicial process.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:29 PM on June 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's a lousy thing, but saying certain groups aren't eligible for Medicaid funding isn't a bill of attainder. A bill of attainder names a specific person (or group) as guilty of a crime, thus circumventing the judicial process.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:29 PM on June 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's not just cartoonishly evil, it's astoundingly spineless. Why not just say that you're defunding Planned Parenthood? Will anyone reading the bill go "Uh, maybe they're thinking of another reproductive health organisation that performs abortions and had a turnover of $350 million in 2014."
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:47 PM on June 24, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:47 PM on June 24, 2017 [9 favorites]
ELECTIONS NEWS
** Odds & ends:
** Odds & ends:
--California bzillionaire Tom Steyer is putting $7.5M this year into an effort to register young people to vote in eight states (VA, PA, FL, OH, MI, WI, NV, CA). Probably more to come next year, as well.posted by Chrysostom at 9:57 PM on June 24, 2017 [52 favorites]
--Kaiser Family Fund poll finds 51% have a favorable opinion of the ACA, the highest level ever. Additionally, 55% have an UNfavorable opinion of the AHCA.
--NBC/WSJ poll finds that people believe Comey over Trump 45-22. Even among Republicans, only 50% believe Trump.
--Purported human and vote suppressor extraordinaire Kris Kobach is in trouble for lying to a court about plans to make it harder to register to vote.
Jeff Flake is spending the weekend with the Kochs (along with a few other "elites").
This is why I never believe any of those claims that he's on the fence about one issue or another. He likes to cosplay as a moderate, but he's deep in the Koch brothers' pockets and will not vote against their interests.
posted by Superplin at 10:41 PM on June 24, 2017 [36 favorites]
This is why I never believe any of those claims that he's on the fence about one issue or another. He likes to cosplay as a moderate, but he's deep in the Koch brothers' pockets and will not vote against their interests.
posted by Superplin at 10:41 PM on June 24, 2017 [36 favorites]
Jeff Flake is spending the weekend with the Kochs (along with a few other "elites").
That's a hell of a list.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:09 PM on June 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
That's a hell of a list.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:09 PM on June 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's a lousy thing, but saying certain groups aren't eligible for Medicaid funding isn't a bill of attainder. A bill of attainder names a specific person (or group) as guilty of a crime, thus circumventing the judicial process.
It's absolutely a punishment by the legislative branch, for a "crime" that isn't even an actual crime except in the twisted hearts of the GOP. It probably doesn't technically pass the test for a bill of attainder but that's only because of the thinnest veil of fiction covering it, the "crime" and the target are just so heavily implied as to be clear as day instead of spelled out directly - Planned Parenthood provides perfectly legal abortion services and they specifically are being punished for it.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:55 PM on June 24, 2017
It's absolutely a punishment by the legislative branch, for a "crime" that isn't even an actual crime except in the twisted hearts of the GOP. It probably doesn't technically pass the test for a bill of attainder but that's only because of the thinnest veil of fiction covering it, the "crime" and the target are just so heavily implied as to be clear as day instead of spelled out directly - Planned Parenthood provides perfectly legal abortion services and they specifically are being punished for it.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:55 PM on June 24, 2017
I guess to my mind it's "not a bill of attainder" in the same way that the travel ban is "not a Muslim ban", and courts are seeing right through that shit on the latter - though the GOP is probably salivating at the thought of PP suing so they can get some new abortion precedent out of Gorsuch & co to lay the groundwork for the Roe v Wade fight they want to have.
posted by jason_steakums at 12:03 AM on June 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 12:03 AM on June 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
Haven't seen this linked, it's a long conversation between S. Glasser and M. Gessen from about a month ago (Politico, audio and transcript): Is Russiagate a Conspiracy Theory?
Rich in perspective on lack of access, framing and imagination as tools for resistance, protection of the public sphere, and personal sanity.
posted by progosk at 12:08 AM on June 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
Rich in perspective on lack of access, framing and imagination as tools for resistance, protection of the public sphere, and personal sanity.
posted by progosk at 12:08 AM on June 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
If any of you talk to people about health insurance, you might tell them about single-payer healthcare in Australia: Why it may not be worth taking out private health insurance
posted by Joe in Australia at 1:54 AM on June 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 1:54 AM on June 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
PBS's To The Contrary from Friday starts off discussing health care and Eleanor Holmes Norton just wipes the floor with the conservatives feebly trying to defend the current "reforms".
posted by XMLicious at 4:05 AM on June 25, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by XMLicious at 4:05 AM on June 25, 2017 [8 favorites]
Y'know what I just realized... one of the points I've been making to people since the advent of the AHCA crap this year is how it's incontrovertible evidence that the Republicans have been completely full of shit about health care policy this whole time—all of the Republicans who have been in Congress during the last eight years since the start of Obama's work on the ACA never even bothered to learn anything about health care so that they could write their own plan. They never even bothered with the minimal effort to have an intern write up a plan in the event of an opportunity like this to actually repeal Obamacare.
If they'd been remotely serious or acting like elected officials representing the People, there would be a huge chart comparing the minute differences between different versions of Republican "replace" plans from the fifty different times they attempted repeal.
But I realized it's even deeper than that: they must have intentionally avoided and suppressed any actual efforts on the right to even begin sketching out solutions for systemic health care problems, anticipating the current sort of scenario.
If they'd taken any serious sort of swing at tackling the various problems, the parts of their base who require some minimal degree of cohesion and reasoning in the messaging would remember what had previously been proposed and would be vulnerable to anyone else pointing out departures from previous plans and explanations.
So they avoided any actual discussion of solving real problems, and probably actively restrained the newbie Tea Partyers from doing so, and thereby essentially wrote themselves a blank check: whenever they got the chance, "repealing Obamacare" and "fixing healthcare" could take absolutely any form desired. And what do you know, it turns out that massive tax cuts for the wealthiest people is now essential to "fixing healthcare."
posted by XMLicious at 6:04 AM on June 25, 2017 [67 favorites]
If they'd been remotely serious or acting like elected officials representing the People, there would be a huge chart comparing the minute differences between different versions of Republican "replace" plans from the fifty different times they attempted repeal.
But I realized it's even deeper than that: they must have intentionally avoided and suppressed any actual efforts on the right to even begin sketching out solutions for systemic health care problems, anticipating the current sort of scenario.
If they'd taken any serious sort of swing at tackling the various problems, the parts of their base who require some minimal degree of cohesion and reasoning in the messaging would remember what had previously been proposed and would be vulnerable to anyone else pointing out departures from previous plans and explanations.
So they avoided any actual discussion of solving real problems, and probably actively restrained the newbie Tea Partyers from doing so, and thereby essentially wrote themselves a blank check: whenever they got the chance, "repealing Obamacare" and "fixing healthcare" could take absolutely any form desired. And what do you know, it turns out that massive tax cuts for the wealthiest people is now essential to "fixing healthcare."
posted by XMLicious at 6:04 AM on June 25, 2017 [67 favorites]
It was never about fixing healthcare. It was a neo-Southern Strategy leveraging the racist and anti-government factions together. The sad truth is that if Obamacare was implemented by a white guy we wouldn't be in this conundrum.
This is why I never believe any of those claims that he's on the fence about one issue or another. He likes to cosplay as a moderate, but he's deep in the Koch brothers' pockets and will not vote against their interests.
Flake is up for reelection in 2018 which makes him potentially vulnerable in a wave election in an R+5 state. He's also getting primaried from the right by the batshit insane Kelli Ward and his primary polls are nowhere near as strong as McCain's. He's going to have to waste a lot of money prior to the general just to fend off a nutjob.
posted by Talez at 6:11 AM on June 25, 2017 [9 favorites]
This is why I never believe any of those claims that he's on the fence about one issue or another. He likes to cosplay as a moderate, but he's deep in the Koch brothers' pockets and will not vote against their interests.
Flake is up for reelection in 2018 which makes him potentially vulnerable in a wave election in an R+5 state. He's also getting primaried from the right by the batshit insane Kelli Ward and his primary polls are nowhere near as strong as McCain's. He's going to have to waste a lot of money prior to the general just to fend off a nutjob.
posted by Talez at 6:11 AM on June 25, 2017 [9 favorites]
Inside the mysterious lot of land Donald Trump owns in Florida's swamplands
The quarter-acre parcel brings in no income, has no natural resources and has environmental restrictions. So why does the president still maintain it?
posted by lalochezia at 6:25 AM on June 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
The quarter-acre parcel brings in no income, has no natural resources and has environmental restrictions. So why does the president still maintain it?
posted by lalochezia at 6:25 AM on June 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
So why does the president still maintain it?
A tantalizing detail: "[he] bought it for $1 from a woman who owned a photographic studio specialising in adult lingerie shoots."
posted by Mister Bijou at 6:30 AM on June 25, 2017 [11 favorites]
A tantalizing detail: "[he] bought it for $1 from a woman who owned a photographic studio specialising in adult lingerie shoots."
posted by Mister Bijou at 6:30 AM on June 25, 2017 [11 favorites]
A threefer from the Guardian: Civil war has broken out inside the Democratic party. Does the future belong to the populist left or the centrists?
Heather Cox Richardson:
Michael Cohen:
Jean Hannah Edelstein:
Heather Cox Richardson:
And so, we have come to the end of an era. The destruction of the New Deal state in a time of globalism has created an American economy that looks much like that of the 1920s, with extraordinary wealth concentrated at the very top of society. Thus the populist moment of 2016, when voters on both sides set out to smash the establishment, on the one hand electing Donald Trump and, on the other, rending the Democratic party in two.
Michael Cohen:
We need to look to movements such as the Women’s March, which inspired a record-breaking number of people to take to the streets, and the Run for Something campaign, which helps progressive people to run for office – and has elicited a huge, enthusiastic response from new candidates. They’re the best hope Democrats have of effecting change in 2018 and beyond. But only if they motivate turnout from the young voters who came out for Obama but couldn’t be bothered to vote for Clinton.
This means focusing on real issues that mean a lot to young people: education debt relief; steady employment; healthcare that makes it possible for them to afford to start families.
Jean Hannah Edelstein:
But Democrats should take a […] populist approach. Many liberals argue that means talking about single-payer healthcare and free college education, but it’s far from clear that those policies are what voters want. Pledging to raise taxes on the wealthy, protecting health insurance for poor and working Americans, expanding childcare and social security benefits, raising the minimum wage, making college loans more accessible and waging war on the opioid epidemic ravaging broad swatches of America will be far more effective.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:34 AM on June 25, 2017 [7 favorites]
Populism is key for Democrats, but it needs to be the kind of economic populism that signals to the American middle class that the party is in touch with their concerns and will fight for them if they are returned to power.
This tweet:
posted by octothorpe at 6:43 AM on June 25, 2017 [87 favorites]
You know what doesn't get talked about nearly enough? How passing the ACA enabled people to quit day jobs and start their own businesses.caused me to remember something from a two weeks ago when I was at a local tech conference. They had four local start-up entrepreneurs for a panel discussion talking about running a small business and during the talk, all of them said that they couldn't have started their businesses without the ACA.
posted by octothorpe at 6:43 AM on June 25, 2017 [87 favorites]
I could not have started my business without ACA. The full provisions coming into effect in 2014 was the triggering event for me striking out on my own and if they go away I don't know what I'm going to do. I don't know if there has been any research done on exact numbers, but I suspect that if you polled owners of businesses founded in 2014 you would get a huge percentage with the same story.
posted by zrail at 6:54 AM on June 25, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by zrail at 6:54 AM on June 25, 2017 [34 favorites]
I quit my job and started out on my own pre-ACA, and my individual coverage was grandfathered and worked fine until my insurer left the market. But if I had/was having kids, or a preexisting condition (which was always the Sword of Damocles back then) it would have been a different story. I probably would have looked for another job.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:19 AM on June 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:19 AM on June 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
"Mysterious"land story: Carrico did not return messages from the Guardian seeking comment and removed her Facebook and Instagram profiles the same day the requests were made. A cousin of Carrico’s in Tamarac, South Florida, denied knowing anything about her, and two other close relatives reached by telephone elsewhere in the state hung up on the calls.
Perfectly normal. Now.
posted by petebest at 7:21 AM on June 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
Perfectly normal. Now.
posted by petebest at 7:21 AM on June 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
> all of them said that they couldn't have started their businesses without the ACA.
> I could not have started my business without ACA.
Imagine if there was a political party that supported this legislation that has allowed for so many businesses to be created, and then these businesses in turn created so many jobs. Why, you might be able to call this party the "party of job creators", except -- crap! -- that moniker is taken by the other guys who want to kill this thing.
Ah well.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:25 AM on June 25, 2017 [20 favorites]
> I could not have started my business without ACA.
Imagine if there was a political party that supported this legislation that has allowed for so many businesses to be created, and then these businesses in turn created so many jobs. Why, you might be able to call this party the "party of job creators", except -- crap! -- that moniker is taken by the other guys who want to kill this thing.
Ah well.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:25 AM on June 25, 2017 [20 favorites]
Perfectly normal. Now.
i'm not the only one thinking somebody is buried there, right?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:31 AM on June 25, 2017 [28 favorites]
i'm not the only one thinking somebody is buried there, right?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:31 AM on June 25, 2017 [28 favorites]
It should go without saying that if you think the ACA is good for entrepreneurs, can you even imagine how many more there would be with single payer?
I used to assume that everyone picked up on implications like that and made the same connections I did but if that were true DJT wouldn't be president.
These sorts of things are kind of like the progressive version of racist dog whistles in the GOP. Maybe we should be saying the quiet parts loud too since our quiet parts are pretty good for people.
posted by VTX at 7:31 AM on June 25, 2017 [42 favorites]
I used to assume that everyone picked up on implications like that and made the same connections I did but if that were true DJT wouldn't be president.
These sorts of things are kind of like the progressive version of racist dog whistles in the GOP. Maybe we should be saying the quiet parts loud too since our quiet parts are pretty good for people.
posted by VTX at 7:31 AM on June 25, 2017 [42 favorites]
Pro-Trump group launches new attack ad against special counsel Robert Mueller
Featuring Tomi Lahren, because everything has to be as terrible as it possibly can.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:34 AM on June 25, 2017 [7 favorites]
Featuring Tomi Lahren, because everything has to be as terrible as it possibly can.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:34 AM on June 25, 2017 [7 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump: Hillary Clinton colluded with the Democratic Party in order to beat Crazy Bernie Sanders. Is she allowed to so collude? Unfair to Bernie!
---
Beyond the usual insanity, I love that he's *sticking up* for Bernie in the same tweet he calls him crazy. Plus, by saying Hillary did it too, he's moving toward "Goddamn right I ordered the code red" territory.
posted by chris24 at 7:38 AM on June 25, 2017 [41 favorites]
---
Beyond the usual insanity, I love that he's *sticking up* for Bernie in the same tweet he calls him crazy. Plus, by saying Hillary did it too, he's moving toward "Goddamn right I ordered the code red" territory.
posted by chris24 at 7:38 AM on June 25, 2017 [41 favorites]
Imagine if there was a political party that supported this legislation that has allowed for so many businesses to be created, and then these businesses in turn created so many jobs. Why, you might be able to call this party the "party of job creators", except -- crap! -- that moniker is taken by the other guys who want to kill this thing.
"Party for job creation not the so-called creators"
posted by Talez at 7:41 AM on June 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
"Party for job creation not the so-called creators"
posted by Talez at 7:41 AM on June 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump: Hillary Clinton colluded with the Democratic Party in order to beat Crazy Bernie Sanders. Is she allowed to so collude? Unfair to Bernie!
We're at the "Alternative Pleading" stage now. He's at the end of the "no collusion" rope, and grasping for the "SHE DID IT TOO!" rope... Missing the subtle nuance of his campaign conspiring with a foreign Sovereign Nation we have imposed sanctions against and Kushner's potential espionage liability.
posted by mikelieman at 7:50 AM on June 25, 2017 [36 favorites]
We're at the "Alternative Pleading" stage now. He's at the end of the "no collusion" rope, and grasping for the "SHE DID IT TOO!" rope... Missing the subtle nuance of his campaign conspiring with a foreign Sovereign Nation we have imposed sanctions against and Kushner's potential espionage liability.
posted by mikelieman at 7:50 AM on June 25, 2017 [36 favorites]
Hillary Clinton colluded with the Democratic Party
interestingly, this is not espionage for a foreign power
posted by murphy slaw at 7:53 AM on June 25, 2017 [68 favorites]
interestingly, this is not espionage for a foreign power
posted by murphy slaw at 7:53 AM on June 25, 2017 [68 favorites]
Pro-Trump group launches new attack ad against special counsel Robert Mueller
While I honestly believe these efforts will have zero effect on Mueller himself (or his investigation) one way or the other, I do think they'll motivate the rank-and-file in the intelligence community and other federal agencies to turn the screws even harder against this administration. You'd think the people who are always moaning about the power of the "deep state" and the federal bureaucracy would realize they're the people you don't want to piss off. I guess I'm glad they don't realize that, though.
posted by Rykey at 8:14 AM on June 25, 2017 [18 favorites]
While I honestly believe these efforts will have zero effect on Mueller himself (or his investigation) one way or the other, I do think they'll motivate the rank-and-file in the intelligence community and other federal agencies to turn the screws even harder against this administration. You'd think the people who are always moaning about the power of the "deep state" and the federal bureaucracy would realize they're the people you don't want to piss off. I guess I'm glad they don't realize that, though.
posted by Rykey at 8:14 AM on June 25, 2017 [18 favorites]
ya got yer big tobacco responsible for countless deaths and illness. you got yer big food responsible for the completely bullshit diet that is nudging Amurkans slowly toward death. big pharma that can't be bothered with critical r&d but hey, got a soft dick or restless legs, they got just what ya need. ya got big military, chowing down 10 times as much money as the total spend of the next 10 nations combined. and then there's big insurance. oh and lets not forget ya got big religion, making sure you don't question all this too much.
i say, if corporations are people and money is speech, then it's high time we dealt a little capital punishment. make it illegal to sell health insurance because they are not actually insuring anything (all your premiums get you is the right to dicker with lawyers when they deny your claim) take their ill-gotten gains and spend it on nationalized health care, and fuck the assholes who cry 'but socialism!'.
fuck this goddam 'system', fuck unrestrained capitalism, and to paraphrase the mentally ill asshole with a turnip for a brain in the oval office, "we should invade the big corps and take their money".
ok, i'll just be leaning against this tree over here, waiting to die.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 8:27 AM on June 25, 2017 [41 favorites]
i say, if corporations are people and money is speech, then it's high time we dealt a little capital punishment. make it illegal to sell health insurance because they are not actually insuring anything (all your premiums get you is the right to dicker with lawyers when they deny your claim) take their ill-gotten gains and spend it on nationalized health care, and fuck the assholes who cry 'but socialism!'.
fuck this goddam 'system', fuck unrestrained capitalism, and to paraphrase the mentally ill asshole with a turnip for a brain in the oval office, "we should invade the big corps and take their money".
ok, i'll just be leaning against this tree over here, waiting to die.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 8:27 AM on June 25, 2017 [41 favorites]
Maureen Dowd continues her descent into the depths of self parody.
Also, Rahm Emmanuel:
posted by tonycpsu at 9:02 AM on June 25, 2017 [17 favorites]
Also, Rahm Emmanuel:
In dwindling swing districts, [Rahm] Emanuel told me, Democrats need to choose candidates who are pro-middle class, not merely pro-poor.and Tim Ryan:
[Congressman Tim] Ryan says Democrats need to stop microtargeting. “They talked to a black person about voting rights, a brown person about immigration, a gay about gay rights, a woman about choice and on and on, slicing up the electorate,” he said. “But they forgot that first and foremost, people have to pay their mortgages and get affordable health care.”can go fuck themselves.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:02 AM on June 25, 2017 [17 favorites]
“They talked to a black person about voting rights, a brown person about immigration, a gay about gay rights, a woman about choice and on and on, slicing up the electorate,” he said. “But they forgot that first and foremost, people have to pay their mortgages and get affordable health care.”
Tim Ryan really narrowed down just what kind of "persons" he considers to be "people," didn't he?
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:07 AM on June 25, 2017 [34 favorites]
Tim Ryan really narrowed down just what kind of "persons" he considers to be "people," didn't he?
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:07 AM on June 25, 2017 [34 favorites]
While I honestly believe these efforts will have zero effect on Mueller himself (or his investigation) one way or the other
That's not meant to affect Mueller. It's meant to undermine confidence in the legitimacy of the process and the validity of his conclusions. It's meant to poison the well.
And if that kind of argument is accepted by the majority of Republicans, then there may be no path out of this situation without political violence.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:13 AM on June 25, 2017 [9 favorites]
That's not meant to affect Mueller. It's meant to undermine confidence in the legitimacy of the process and the validity of his conclusions. It's meant to poison the well.
And if that kind of argument is accepted by the majority of Republicans, then there may be no path out of this situation without political violence.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:13 AM on June 25, 2017 [9 favorites]
"They talked to a black person about voting rights, a brown person about immigration, a gay about gay rights, a woman about choice and on and on, slicing up the electorate," he said. "But they forgot that first and foremost, people have to pay their mortgages and get affordable health care attention to white cismen.”
posted by salix at 9:15 AM on June 25, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by salix at 9:15 AM on June 25, 2017 [14 favorites]
economics count - and i think some people here need to decide whether they want to win elections or be "right" - we need those concerned about mortgages and affordable health care in any coalition that is an alternative to what trump and the republicans offer
posted by pyramid termite at 9:19 AM on June 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 9:19 AM on June 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
We need Dems to get off their butts and vote. Repubs will grouse about Trump or their Fed/state/local reps, but they still manage to get out and reliably vote R regardless.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 9:30 AM on June 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 9:30 AM on June 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
I think some people here need to decide whether they want to win elections or be "right"
You can offer universal healthcare and full employment programs and also be in favor of voting rights and women's rights, which is what Tim Ryan is saying everybody should shut up about. I don't know why people think it's impossible to be both economically populist and to oppose repealing the rights of 75% of the country. It's not spinning goddamned plates.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:33 AM on June 25, 2017 [50 favorites]
You can offer universal healthcare and full employment programs and also be in favor of voting rights and women's rights, which is what Tim Ryan is saying everybody should shut up about. I don't know why people think it's impossible to be both economically populist and to oppose repealing the rights of 75% of the country. It's not spinning goddamned plates.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:33 AM on June 25, 2017 [50 favorites]
> economics count - and i think some people here need to decide whether they want to win elections or be "right" - we need those concerned about mortgages and affordable health care in any coalition that is an alternative to what trump and the republicans offer
What sort of straw man is this, where Democrats haven't been focusing on economic issues? It just turns out that a candidate who spends 99.9% of their time and resources talking about economics but also answers in the affirmative if they think businesses should allow trans people to use the bathroom of their choice is accused of pandering to niche issues and not focusing enough on the things that matter to "regular Americans."
posted by tonycpsu at 9:34 AM on June 25, 2017 [38 favorites]
What sort of straw man is this, where Democrats haven't been focusing on economic issues? It just turns out that a candidate who spends 99.9% of their time and resources talking about economics but also answers in the affirmative if they think businesses should allow trans people to use the bathroom of their choice is accused of pandering to niche issues and not focusing enough on the things that matter to "regular Americans."
posted by tonycpsu at 9:34 AM on June 25, 2017 [38 favorites]
I've always understood that taking care of the poor and marginalized is basically "trickle up" economics.
FYI: I had mis-typed this as "tickle up" economics which doesn't really make sense but the imagery is more fun.
More retail jobs means more managers, and middle managers, and analysts, administrative support, and compliance teams.
Now your organizations are large enough that you need to split your territory into six regions instead of just three so now you need more regional VPs and all of their associated staff.
I'm not sure that candidates really understand that and I'm certain that most voters don't.
posted by VTX at 9:35 AM on June 25, 2017 [8 favorites]
FYI: I had mis-typed this as "tickle up" economics which doesn't really make sense but the imagery is more fun.
More retail jobs means more managers, and middle managers, and analysts, administrative support, and compliance teams.
Now your organizations are large enough that you need to split your territory into six regions instead of just three so now you need more regional VPs and all of their associated staff.
I'm not sure that candidates really understand that and I'm certain that most voters don't.
posted by VTX at 9:35 AM on June 25, 2017 [8 favorites]
all i know is that the minute someone mentions the economic issues, they're instantly accused of trying to sweep other issues under the rug - and i also know that time, energy and weight of message are not infinite and the democrats aren't getting through to the people they need to get through to
it's not me throwing up the straw man, it's you
it's time to center attention on the issues that affect most americans, including the ones you claim to speak for, if you want a strong coalition that gets out the votes
posted by pyramid termite at 9:43 AM on June 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
it's not me throwing up the straw man, it's you
it's time to center attention on the issues that affect most americans, including the ones you claim to speak for, if you want a strong coalition that gets out the votes
posted by pyramid termite at 9:43 AM on June 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
Trump’s small parcel of land, for which records show he paid $69.87 in taxes in 2016,
No huge tracts of.... land jokes? Metafilter: you disappoint.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 9:43 AM on June 25, 2017 [7 favorites]
No huge tracts of.... land jokes? Metafilter: you disappoint.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 9:43 AM on June 25, 2017 [7 favorites]
I've always understood that taking care of the poor and marginalized is basically "trickle up" economics.
If I was a Democrat trying to give a crash course on supply and demand to the heartland as a stump speech I'd probably use something like this:
"You ever heard your boss say I think I have too much money let's hire someone? No because that's stupid. You ever heard your boss say I think I need to hire someone because I got so much work to do? Maybe not right now but when it's busy you bring on more people, right?
You spend money. All of it that you get probably because everything's so expensive. You know who doesn't spend money? Rich people. Cause nobody ever got rich spending all their money. So instead of giving these so called job creators a tax break, how about we get more money in your pockets so that you can go out and get a new kitchen for the first time in thirty years? From that kitchen you'll employ someone cutting down a tree, someone sawing up the log, someone turning the log into cabinets, and then someone putting it all in your house.
Now you might say that Joe Manager at work says he'll cut us all if we force him to raise wages. Well who's going to do the work? Somebody's gotta make him money. It's fruit of your labours not fruit of elves and pixies. These people tell you they ain't a charity. And they aren't. They don't employ extra people. The work will need to get done and they'll still need you to do it."
posted by Talez at 9:44 AM on June 25, 2017 [103 favorites]
If I was a Democrat trying to give a crash course on supply and demand to the heartland as a stump speech I'd probably use something like this:
"You ever heard your boss say I think I have too much money let's hire someone? No because that's stupid. You ever heard your boss say I think I need to hire someone because I got so much work to do? Maybe not right now but when it's busy you bring on more people, right?
You spend money. All of it that you get probably because everything's so expensive. You know who doesn't spend money? Rich people. Cause nobody ever got rich spending all their money. So instead of giving these so called job creators a tax break, how about we get more money in your pockets so that you can go out and get a new kitchen for the first time in thirty years? From that kitchen you'll employ someone cutting down a tree, someone sawing up the log, someone turning the log into cabinets, and then someone putting it all in your house.
Now you might say that Joe Manager at work says he'll cut us all if we force him to raise wages. Well who's going to do the work? Somebody's gotta make him money. It's fruit of your labours not fruit of elves and pixies. These people tell you they ain't a charity. And they aren't. They don't employ extra people. The work will need to get done and they'll still need you to do it."
posted by Talez at 9:44 AM on June 25, 2017 [103 favorites]
I mean it's what Republicans do. They make people feel smart by giving them a narrative they can logically follow even if it's wrong and based on faulty assumptions i.e. "IMMIGANTS TOOK MY JERB!"
posted by Talez at 9:47 AM on June 25, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by Talez at 9:47 AM on June 25, 2017 [17 favorites]
> all i know is that the minute someone mentions the economic issues, they're instantly accused of trying to sweep other issues under the rug
Rahm Emmanuel and Tim Ryan didn't just mention economic issues, they specifically contextualized them as being a zero-sum game with issues of racial identity and discrimination, which is not the case. Democrats can and should be both/and with these issues instead of either/or, especially because of the high correlation between race and income, the glass ceiling, the many ways in which LGBTQ people are denied economic opportunity based on how they look or who they love, etc.
If Emmanuel and Ryan were talking about specific policy prescriptions to lift people up economically, I would be cheering them on. Instead, their thinly-veiled scapegoating of minorities reeks of "compassionate Trumpism" in a desperate attempt to get Obama -> Trump votes by humoring their tendencies toward blaming others for their economic misfortune.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:54 AM on June 25, 2017 [35 favorites]
Rahm Emmanuel and Tim Ryan didn't just mention economic issues, they specifically contextualized them as being a zero-sum game with issues of racial identity and discrimination, which is not the case. Democrats can and should be both/and with these issues instead of either/or, especially because of the high correlation between race and income, the glass ceiling, the many ways in which LGBTQ people are denied economic opportunity based on how they look or who they love, etc.
If Emmanuel and Ryan were talking about specific policy prescriptions to lift people up economically, I would be cheering them on. Instead, their thinly-veiled scapegoating of minorities reeks of "compassionate Trumpism" in a desperate attempt to get Obama -> Trump votes by humoring their tendencies toward blaming others for their economic misfortune.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:54 AM on June 25, 2017 [35 favorites]
talez for presnit
posted by murphy slaw at 9:57 AM on June 25, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 9:57 AM on June 25, 2017 [14 favorites]
What the fuck, New York Times:
"You'll never be alone again": How President Trump formed a potent bond with families of people killed by undocumented immigrants
posted by Rhaomi at 10:03 AM on June 25, 2017 [45 favorites]
"You'll never be alone again": How President Trump formed a potent bond with families of people killed by undocumented immigrants
The families could reel off all the times they had called the media and written to Washington, but after all that trying, they had never heard anyone who mattered say anything like it: Most Mexican immigrants, Donald J. Trump declared in his first campaign speech, were “rapists” who were “bringing drugs, bringing crime” across the border.First off, I doubt Trump is capable of forming a "potent bond" with anyone, unless they're talking politically. And while the grief these families feel is legitimate, co-opting it in a cynical and bigoted effort to demonize millions of vulnerable people for political purposes is not. Parts of this article wouldn't look out of place on Brietbart.
Now he had come to meet them, the families of people killed by undocumented immigrants, and they wanted to tell him he was right. [...]
Sitting alone with them at the Beverly Wilshire Hotel in July 2015, the candidate distributed hugs as the families wept. When the campaign had called, most of them had been told only that they were going to meet with Mr. Trump. But then the group was ushered into the next room, where the campaign had invited reporters to a news conference.
It was a surprise, but no one seemed to mind. Several stepped up to endorse Mr. Trump.
“He’s speaking for the dead,” said Jamiel Shaw Sr., whose teenage son was shot to death by a gang member in Los Angeles in 2008. “He’s speaking for my son.”
Mr. Shaw wanted the news media to know that Mr. Trump could have gone further when he called Mexican immigrants rapists and criminals.
“I would have said they were murderers,” he said.
posted by Rhaomi at 10:03 AM on June 25, 2017 [45 favorites]
I agree with tonycpsu's take on the specious zero-sum nature of Emmanuel/Ryan's take, but want to add that there are times in these threads when it does feel like we're shouting down people who bring up economics a bit too quickly. Economic justice needs to be a central part of the Dem approach moving forward. And civil rights and economic justice are synergistic concepts.
posted by Lyme Drop at 10:06 AM on June 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Lyme Drop at 10:06 AM on June 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
Racism is economics. There's no evaluating it as something separate from its intention and effect, which is to create a permanent subclass of disadvantaged people.
posted by chris24 at 10:11 AM on June 25, 2017 [31 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 10:11 AM on June 25, 2017 [31 favorites]
i just don't understand the people who say that single payer isn't addressing economics. medical care and insurance are among the fastest rising costs for all demographics. if you say "shut up about single payer and focus on health insurance and economics" you're being disingenuous.
posted by murphy slaw at 10:13 AM on June 25, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 10:13 AM on June 25, 2017 [11 favorites]
Matthew Yglesias, Vox: The Overall Message of 2017 Special Election is that Republicans are in Trouble
But step back from the specifics of the race and look at all four special elections in red districts held since Donald Trump’s election, and a more optimistic story emerges. Democrats have successfully transferred Hillary Clinton’s gains in well-educated districts to their down-ballot candidates, even while succeeding in making up some of the ground she lost in white working-class ones.posted by Glibpaxman at 10:15 AM on June 25, 2017 [9 favorites]
...
The calculation behind the “all in on Ossoff” theory was that these trends would continue and Atlanta’s northern suburbs would go from R-leaning to D-leaning, while Montana and the South Carolina seat would continue to slip out of grasp.
The results show that neither of these things seems to be true. Ossoff did about as well as Hillary Clinton, which means he did better than any House Democrat in forever, but he didn’t improve on her performance. But Democrats in places where Trump was very strong have managed to improve on her results. This actually paints a fairly positive portrait of Democrats’ overall fortunes. The party seems to be consolidating Clinton’s gains with white college graduates to a much greater extent than the GOP is consolidating Trump’s gains with non-college whites.
...
But Republicans also have considerable strengths. The shape of House Districts means that even if a few more people vote for Democratic House candidates, the GOP can easily maintain its majority. To win, the Democrats need a lot more votes than the Republicans. To do that, Democrats need to appeal to some right-of-center voters without watering down their message so much that they annoy and demobilize their base. It’s objectively difficult to pull off, especially in the face of what’s likely to be an entrenched Republican advantage in outside spending and a more ideologically coherent message.
To do that, Democrats need to appeal to some right-of-center voters without watering down their message so much that they annoy and demobilize their base.
I disagree. They just need to vote in non-presidential years. I thought that was a settled matter. And, for the amount of progress that was made in the special elections, it seems like "we" finally get it. Vote, vote, vote. Every chance you get.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 10:20 AM on June 25, 2017 [18 favorites]
I disagree. They just need to vote in non-presidential years. I thought that was a settled matter. And, for the amount of progress that was made in the special elections, it seems like "we" finally get it. Vote, vote, vote. Every chance you get.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 10:20 AM on June 25, 2017 [18 favorites]
@brianstelter: Obama "actually used my term, MEAN. That was my term."
—Trump, on Fox, confirming he called House health care bill "mean" in private mtg
---
Stupidity is really the only thing he's winning at. Let's confirm reports of how bad the bill you're probably about to sign is - which will star in attack ads galore - just because your ego has to say you said it first before Obama.
posted by chris24 at 10:23 AM on June 25, 2017 [49 favorites]
—Trump, on Fox, confirming he called House health care bill "mean" in private mtg
---
Stupidity is really the only thing he's winning at. Let's confirm reports of how bad the bill you're probably about to sign is - which will star in attack ads galore - just because your ego has to say you said it first before Obama.
posted by chris24 at 10:23 AM on June 25, 2017 [49 favorites]
i just don't understand the people who say that single payer isn't addressing economics. medical care and insurance are among the fastest rising costs for all demographics. if you say "shut up about single payer and focus on health insurance and economics" you're being disingenuous.
Not only that—imagine the economic possibilities—as job-seekers, employees, entrepreneurs—that would open up to people who didn't have to worry about where health care for themselves and their family was coming from.
Stumbles and missteps aside (I'm looking at you, California legislature), I'm really encouraged by the way single-payer seems to actually be getting traction with the general population. One way to get support might be to frame it as punishment for the AHCA:
"So, wealthy powerful people, THIS is your idea of what health care should be like? How about this instead: we're ALL gonna be covered, adequately and efficiently, AND YOU FUCKERS ARE GONNA PAY FOR IT."
posted by Rykey at 10:44 AM on June 25, 2017 [14 favorites]
Not only that—imagine the economic possibilities—as job-seekers, employees, entrepreneurs—that would open up to people who didn't have to worry about where health care for themselves and their family was coming from.
Stumbles and missteps aside (I'm looking at you, California legislature), I'm really encouraged by the way single-payer seems to actually be getting traction with the general population. One way to get support might be to frame it as punishment for the AHCA:
"So, wealthy powerful people, THIS is your idea of what health care should be like? How about this instead: we're ALL gonna be covered, adequately and efficiently, AND YOU FUCKERS ARE GONNA PAY FOR IT."
posted by Rykey at 10:44 AM on June 25, 2017 [14 favorites]
“He’s speaking for the dead"
Well, he is an obnoxious blond charlatan reality TV star from Long Island. Checks out.
posted by Sys Rq at 10:44 AM on June 25, 2017 [7 favorites]
Well, he is an obnoxious blond charlatan reality TV star from Long Island. Checks out.
posted by Sys Rq at 10:44 AM on June 25, 2017 [7 favorites]
> but want to add that there are times in these threads when it does feel like we're shouting down people who bring up economics a bit too quickly
Your critique sounds like it might be more MeTa-worthy than something that we need to be talking about on the blue, but if you're projecting what you think the dynamic is here on to the larger population of progressives outside of MeFi, I'd like some examples of what you're talking about. When I've seen people jump on someone for talking about economics, it's been where the arguments about economics are of the Emmanuel/Ryan zero-sum form -- "why are Democrats focusing on race when people need jobs." Are people really attacked for saying "we should raise taxes on high earners" or "we should push for single-payer"?
These things would quite obviously help the various segments of the population that Tim Ryan chose to single out in his statement about "microtargeting", and should therefore be totally uncontroversial when said to an audience of progressives. You might find people who have tactical disagreements about how to change the tax code, or believe that we should focus on universal coverage even if it isn't in the form of single-payer, but I don't think I've seen anyone attacked for talking about economic justice unless it was accompanied by an argument about taking away resources from somewhere else.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:57 AM on June 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
Your critique sounds like it might be more MeTa-worthy than something that we need to be talking about on the blue, but if you're projecting what you think the dynamic is here on to the larger population of progressives outside of MeFi, I'd like some examples of what you're talking about. When I've seen people jump on someone for talking about economics, it's been where the arguments about economics are of the Emmanuel/Ryan zero-sum form -- "why are Democrats focusing on race when people need jobs." Are people really attacked for saying "we should raise taxes on high earners" or "we should push for single-payer"?
These things would quite obviously help the various segments of the population that Tim Ryan chose to single out in his statement about "microtargeting", and should therefore be totally uncontroversial when said to an audience of progressives. You might find people who have tactical disagreements about how to change the tax code, or believe that we should focus on universal coverage even if it isn't in the form of single-payer, but I don't think I've seen anyone attacked for talking about economic justice unless it was accompanied by an argument about taking away resources from somewhere else.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:57 AM on June 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
What's thatcha got there Donny? New word? Collude! Good one! Ever used it before? You have?! Well good for you!
Jun 25, 2017 07:00:37 AM Hillary Clinton colluded with the Democratic Party in order to beat Crazy Bernie Sanders. Is she allowed to so collude? Unfair to Bernie! [Twitter for iPhone] link
Mar 20, 2017 05:35:28 AM James Clapper and others stated that there is no evidence Potus colluded with Russia. This story is FAKE NEWS and everyone knows it! [Twitter for iPhone] link
Oct 17, 2016 04:03:16 PM Crooked Hillary colluded w/FBI and DOJ and media is covering up to protect her. It's a #RiggedSystem! Our country d… https://t.co/kuinRTImVJ [Twitter Web Client] link
Apr 24, 2016 10:39:58 PM Wow, just announced that Lyin' Ted and Kasich are going to collude in order to keep me from getting the Republican nomination. DESPERATION! [Twitter for Android] link
Nov 2, 2011 01:57:25 PM The Oil Companies collude with OPEC to keep oil artificially overvalued. They need to be reigned in. [TweetDeck]
via the why-didn't-I-see-this-before TrumpTwitterArchive, or the Twitlerchive as the kids say.
I imagine.
posted by petebest at 11:50 AM on June 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
Jun 25, 2017 07:00:37 AM Hillary Clinton colluded with the Democratic Party in order to beat Crazy Bernie Sanders. Is she allowed to so collude? Unfair to Bernie! [Twitter for iPhone] link
Mar 20, 2017 05:35:28 AM James Clapper and others stated that there is no evidence Potus colluded with Russia. This story is FAKE NEWS and everyone knows it! [Twitter for iPhone] link
Oct 17, 2016 04:03:16 PM Crooked Hillary colluded w/FBI and DOJ and media is covering up to protect her. It's a #RiggedSystem! Our country d… https://t.co/kuinRTImVJ [Twitter Web Client] link
Apr 24, 2016 10:39:58 PM Wow, just announced that Lyin' Ted and Kasich are going to collude in order to keep me from getting the Republican nomination. DESPERATION! [Twitter for Android] link
Nov 2, 2011 01:57:25 PM The Oil Companies collude with OPEC to keep oil artificially overvalued. They need to be reigned in. [TweetDeck]
via the why-didn't-I-see-this-before TrumpTwitterArchive, or the Twitlerchive as the kids say.
I imagine.
posted by petebest at 11:50 AM on June 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
I agree with tonycpsu's take on the specious zero-sum nature of Emmanuel/Ryan's take, but want to add that there are times in these threads when it does feel like we're shouting down people who bring up economics a bit too quickly. Economic justice needs to be a central part of the Dem approach moving forward. And civil rights and economic justice are synergistic concepts.
Please don't ever put Rahm Emmanuel and economic justice in the same category without first looking at Rahm does instead of what he says.
He has brought in exclusively regressive taxes in Chicago. Many that target the poor in particular. He has shut down mental health clinics and closed schools in the poorest neighborhoods. He has precipitated and presided over a black exodus from Chicago that is unrivaled even by republican cities. He has attacked almost every union except the CPD (and their CFD brothers in uniform). He has walked back his promise of police reform as quick as he could while signing off on about $50 million a year, every damn year, in police misconduct settlements all the while CPD have largely been barely even working to rule (traffic tickets are at something like 10% of what they were pre-Laquan).
All Rahm would have to do is say Women belong in the kitchen pregnant and gays don't deserve rights and he could be a republican on their health care panel.
Even if he inconceivably means well he is the guy on the football team who comes out of a scrum with the ball and runs into his own team's endzone and then says the other team was going to score anyway so he saved everyone from the risk of injury from actually playing offense.
A lot of Obama's early political failures have a big cup of Rahm in the mix.
posted by srboisvert at 11:50 AM on June 25, 2017 [37 favorites]
Please don't ever put Rahm Emmanuel and economic justice in the same category without first looking at Rahm does instead of what he says.
He has brought in exclusively regressive taxes in Chicago. Many that target the poor in particular. He has shut down mental health clinics and closed schools in the poorest neighborhoods. He has precipitated and presided over a black exodus from Chicago that is unrivaled even by republican cities. He has attacked almost every union except the CPD (and their CFD brothers in uniform). He has walked back his promise of police reform as quick as he could while signing off on about $50 million a year, every damn year, in police misconduct settlements all the while CPD have largely been barely even working to rule (traffic tickets are at something like 10% of what they were pre-Laquan).
All Rahm would have to do is say Women belong in the kitchen pregnant and gays don't deserve rights and he could be a republican on their health care panel.
Even if he inconceivably means well he is the guy on the football team who comes out of a scrum with the ball and runs into his own team's endzone and then says the other team was going to score anyway so he saved everyone from the risk of injury from actually playing offense.
A lot of Obama's early political failures have a big cup of Rahm in the mix.
posted by srboisvert at 11:50 AM on June 25, 2017 [37 favorites]
Moscow Is Finally Recalling Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak
'My work here is done'
posted by PenDevil at 11:53 AM on June 25, 2017 [18 favorites]
'My work here is done'
posted by PenDevil at 11:53 AM on June 25, 2017 [18 favorites]
Well who's going to do the work? Somebody's gotta make him money. It's fruit of your labours not fruit of elves and pixies. These people tell you they ain't a charity. And they aren't. They don't employ extra people. The work will need to get done and they'll still need you to do it."
I thought we were all agreed that the AIs and robots were going to displace all the workers Real Soon Now.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 11:56 AM on June 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
I thought we were all agreed that the AIs and robots were going to displace all the workers Real Soon Now.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 11:56 AM on June 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
Charlie Warzel, Infowarzel : The One Important Lesson From The Megyn Kelly/Alex Jones Interview
The big, crucial difference between the pro-Trump media and MSM is live vs. edited.He also links to a piece by Olivia Nuzzi, New York: Sarah Palin’s Latest Business Venture: Running a Right-Wing Content Farm
Kelly’s interview largely succeeded as a very basic, competent primer on Jones for a crowd that might not know him very well. It held Jones — who is deft at using circular logic and non-sequitur tangents to derail interviews — to account on a few of his more salacious viewpoints. The reason: editing. The Kelly interview which, according to Page Six, was recut to be tougher on Jones after the week of controversy, was masterfully edited to take out most of Jones’ digressions and spin. It distilled many of Jones’ arguments down to a sound byte, which is an effective way to see them for what they are: often inconsistent and unclear.
Which is precisely why it’s perfect ammunition for the pro-Trump media.
Jones’ immediate critique of the piece — which he did on set last week while watching the interview in real-time — was that Kelly interviewed Jones for an entire day to get a minute or so of his sound bytes. What if, he suggested, she aired the whole thing? Jones’ argument here is that releasing all the tape would vindicate him totally, showing him as a reasoned, nuanced thinker and a good person. But instead, the mainstream media — with their bias and pressure to make him look bad — constructed a hit piece to obscure reality and confirm what they wanted to believe: that Jones is a monster.
“They are appealing to the lowest common denominator of media consumer with no real editorial standards,” a person involved in the conservative news churn told me. “My guess is that her team believes that slapping her name on stories like this is an easy way to continue to have people reading her name, while also bringing in some money through programatic ad revenue.”posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:57 AM on June 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
In this respect, it would seem Palin aspires to be like Laura Ingraham, the conservative media personality and Fox News contributor who in 2015 founded lifezette.com, a conservative news and lifestyle site with the motto “Life. Explained.” The difference, of course, is that Palin is not just a right-leaning television presence — she was once nearly second in line to be president of the United States.
Oh hey Julian Assange has proclaimed the Democratic Party doomed, since it will turn out that there's no proof of collusion between DJT and the Russians.
The only way I see him having special knowledge would be if he was the cutout.
posted by srboisvert at 12:18 PM on June 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
The only way I see him having special knowledge would be if he was the cutout.
posted by srboisvert at 12:18 PM on June 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
Moscow Is Finally Recalling Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak
Dude is now in the unusual position of having a memoir-full of interesting tidbits that would be a killer best-seller, so he could make a fortune that way. Also dozens or hundreds of people who really would not want those stories published, so he could make a fortune before the fortune that way. And the usual constraint, needing it to remain secret - Putin's not at all ashamed of any of the greatest spy operation ever and might welcome the additional hand-grenade tossed into the mix.
posted by ctmf at 12:38 PM on June 25, 2017
Dude is now in the unusual position of having a memoir-full of interesting tidbits that would be a killer best-seller, so he could make a fortune that way. Also dozens or hundreds of people who really would not want those stories published, so he could make a fortune before the fortune that way. And the usual constraint, needing it to remain secret - Putin's not at all ashamed of any of the greatest spy operation ever and might welcome the additional hand-grenade tossed into the mix.
posted by ctmf at 12:38 PM on June 25, 2017
The Trump Administration Is Pulling a Grant From a Group That Combats Neo-Nazis
In January, before President Barack Obama left office, DHS announced it would be giving grants to Life After Hate and 30 other anti-extremist groups and law enforcement agencies, but the Trump administration suspended them before the money had been awarded. The new list of grantees announced today by Trump’s DHS includes groups that combat Al Qaeda and ISIS and leaves out organizations primarily focused on countering white supremacists and other far-right hate groups.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:49 PM on June 25, 2017 [36 favorites]
In January, before President Barack Obama left office, DHS announced it would be giving grants to Life After Hate and 30 other anti-extremist groups and law enforcement agencies, but the Trump administration suspended them before the money had been awarded. The new list of grantees announced today by Trump’s DHS includes groups that combat Al Qaeda and ISIS and leaves out organizations primarily focused on countering white supremacists and other far-right hate groups.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:49 PM on June 25, 2017 [36 favorites]
Man, Tim Ryan... We should be talking about voting rights to everyone, and a lot more than we do now. 1.5 million people, including more than 1/5th of African Americans, in the state of Florida are disenfranchised. What kind of a person thinks we should talk about that less?
posted by zachlipton at 12:50 PM on June 25, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:50 PM on June 25, 2017 [19 favorites]
Jones’ immediate critique of the piece — which he did on set last week while watching the interview in real-time — was that Kelly interviewed Jones for an entire day to get a minute or so of his sound bytes. What if, he suggested, she aired the whole thing? Jones’ argument here is that releasing all the tape would vindicate him totally, showing him as a reasoned, nuanced thinker and a good person. But instead, the mainstream media — with their bias and pressure to make him look bad — constructed a hit piece to obscure reality and confirm what they wanted to believe: that Jones is a monster.
Well honestly people are going to see it for what it is through their own biases and prejudices. Obviously for anyone to the left of Bush there is very little redemptive value in the full interview. People on the far right or lunatic conspiracy fringe will paper over or minimize any rather serious errors in rhetoric or logic to proclaim him as both truth teller and soothsayer.
The problem with people like Alex Jones is the only literal way to win is not to play. Kelly decided to play. She climbed into the shit covered pen and surprise surprise, the pig loved wrestling in it and no matter how she cut the interview or even just aired it unedited she's now just covered in Jones's shit and that stank will never come off.
Trump's election has basically disproved sunlight as an effective disinfectant to abhorrent lunacy. The interview should have never even made it past a bad joke in a team meeting.
posted by Talez at 1:02 PM on June 25, 2017 [28 favorites]
Well honestly people are going to see it for what it is through their own biases and prejudices. Obviously for anyone to the left of Bush there is very little redemptive value in the full interview. People on the far right or lunatic conspiracy fringe will paper over or minimize any rather serious errors in rhetoric or logic to proclaim him as both truth teller and soothsayer.
The problem with people like Alex Jones is the only literal way to win is not to play. Kelly decided to play. She climbed into the shit covered pen and surprise surprise, the pig loved wrestling in it and no matter how she cut the interview or even just aired it unedited she's now just covered in Jones's shit and that stank will never come off.
Trump's election has basically disproved sunlight as an effective disinfectant to abhorrent lunacy. The interview should have never even made it past a bad joke in a team meeting.
posted by Talez at 1:02 PM on June 25, 2017 [28 favorites]
Jones, man, you're the guy who actively tells the parents of dead kids that their kids never existed, and that they are paid actors in a conspiracy.
You're pretty much a monster. Own that.
posted by Archelaus at 1:08 PM on June 25, 2017 [19 favorites]
You're pretty much a monster. Own that.
posted by Archelaus at 1:08 PM on June 25, 2017 [19 favorites]
Dude is now in the unusual position of having a memoir-full of interesting tidbits that would be a killer best-seller, so he could make a fortune that way.
No one would be able to remember reading it though.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:17 PM on June 25, 2017 [16 favorites]
People would also have trouble remembering that they'd bought it already... in other words, ka-CHINGGGG!
posted by Too-Ticky at 1:22 PM on June 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Too-Ticky at 1:22 PM on June 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
An anti-memoir, if you will.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:24 PM on June 25, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:24 PM on June 25, 2017 [7 favorites]
The clips I saw from Bernie's Pittsburgh rally were all pretty sensible, but it was kind of pathetic seeing him implore Pat Toomey to vote against the bill he was very involved in writing. The rhetoric at this point needs to be dialed up from "you're making a big mistake, please don't" to "you know goddamn well what you're doing, and it's unconscionable."
posted by tonycpsu at 1:40 PM on June 25, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 1:40 PM on June 25, 2017 [29 favorites]
Metafilter: you know goddamn well what you're doing, and it's unconscionable.
posted by saysthis at 1:44 PM on June 25, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by saysthis at 1:44 PM on June 25, 2017 [23 favorites]
If Bernie is going to be having rallies, maybe he could use them to push back on Trump's "Hillary Clinton colluded with the Democratic Party in order to beat Crazy Bernie Sanders" tweet?
posted by zachlipton at 1:55 PM on June 25, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 1:55 PM on June 25, 2017 [7 favorites]
You guys. Is fascism upon us? Can someone kill this ^%#@$%*&^%#Z%#$x@#)# suspense.
posted by Glinn at 1:56 PM on June 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Glinn at 1:56 PM on June 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
> If Bernie is going to be having rallies, maybe he could use them to push back on Trump's "Hillary Clinton colluded with the Democratic Party in order to beat Crazy Bernie Sanders" tweet?
No way. Why take Trump's bait? What matters is Mueller's investigation into his collusion with Russia -- Trump's attempt to muddy the waters by bringing Hillary into it doesn't deserve any more attention.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:57 PM on June 25, 2017 [7 favorites]
No way. Why take Trump's bait? What matters is Mueller's investigation into his collusion with Russia -- Trump's attempt to muddy the waters by bringing Hillary into it doesn't deserve any more attention.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:57 PM on June 25, 2017 [7 favorites]
MetaFilter: youaaaaahhhhh dangit. Too slow.
posted by petebest at 1:58 PM on June 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by petebest at 1:58 PM on June 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm saying that Sanders could use the opportunity to reinforce a message that Donald Trump is trying to break up the Democratic Party and he's not going to stand for it.
posted by zachlipton at 2:00 PM on June 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 2:00 PM on June 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
Meh. Right now I want things focused on the monstrous healthcare bill, not more "Democrats in disarray" narratives. Responding to it just perpetuates it and lets the media ignore the more important things they should be covering.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:02 PM on June 25, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 2:02 PM on June 25, 2017 [12 favorites]
Don't feed the Troll-in-Chief, is what I'm saying.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:05 PM on June 25, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 2:05 PM on June 25, 2017 [10 favorites]
I'm saying that Sanders could use the opportunity to reinforce a message that Donald Trump is trying to break up the Democratic Party
Joining the Democratic Party might be a good way to do that? Maybe?
I've heard scuttlebutt that he's going to do so after his current term is up. Is that just wishful thinking or is there something to it?
posted by Justinian at 2:06 PM on June 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
Joining the Democratic Party might be a good way to do that? Maybe?
I've heard scuttlebutt that he's going to do so after his current term is up. Is that just wishful thinking or is there something to it?
posted by Justinian at 2:06 PM on June 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
Poor Bernie: to the people who probably agree with him most, he's a loathsome "bro" now, and to the other side, he's a "crazy" crackpot fringe dweeb who's just so uncool he's beneath even social contempt. Ugh. Why does it have to be so much like middle school social politics? He can't possibly be both those things at the same time, and it should be irrelevant anyway if his ideas are good and he's got a track record of making good on promises. Why does it have to be about this petty, small minded personal identity stuff?
He's a NY Jew, not a bro. And he's not crazy. So what gives with those two ideas getting all the ink on both sides?
posted by saulgoodman at 2:08 PM on June 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
He's a NY Jew, not a bro. And he's not crazy. So what gives with those two ideas getting all the ink on both sides?
posted by saulgoodman at 2:08 PM on June 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
> He can't possibly be both those things at the same time
I'm pretty sure the "bro" thing is aimed at a large segment of his supporters, not at him personally.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:10 PM on June 25, 2017 [13 favorites]
I'm pretty sure the "bro" thing is aimed at a large segment of his supporters, not at him personally.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:10 PM on June 25, 2017 [13 favorites]
Can he even speak He-Bro?
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:13 PM on June 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:13 PM on June 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
So what gives with those two ideas getting all the ink on both sides?
he's a socialist - lots of people will do anything in this country to put down a socialist
posted by pyramid termite at 2:13 PM on June 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
he's a socialist - lots of people will do anything in this country to put down a socialist
posted by pyramid termite at 2:13 PM on June 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
Sen. Mike Lee was bloviating so hard, he managed to speak the truth (strike the word broken and insert sabotaged though):
posted by zachlipton at 2:16 PM on June 25, 2017 [8 favorites]
Far short of “repeal,” the Senate bill keeps the Democrats’ broken system intact, just with less spending on the poor to pay for corporate bailouts and tax cuts. A cynic might say that the BCRA is less a Republican health care bill than a caricature of a Republican health care bill.And yet, literally the next sentence:
Yet, for all that, I have not closed the door on voting for some version of it in the end.There's talk now that they'll allow Medicaid to grow at the rate of medical inflation (which is still substantially less than the actual rate at which health care costs increase, because words have no meaning anymore), which will let them say "see, it's got heart now" and get the moderates on board. The calculus is still the same though; as I see it, they can only afford to lose two of Collins, Murkowski, Lee, and Paul, and if they get down to three, the pressure is going to be unbearable.
posted by zachlipton at 2:16 PM on June 25, 2017 [8 favorites]
tonycpsu: I'm pretty sure the "bro" thing is aimed at a large segment of his supporters, not at him personally.
I think what saulgoodman might have been responding to is this:
angrycat: So Bernie is opining at a rally right nowish that there should be Medicare for All. I mean cool cool cool bro
posted by Coventry at 2:28 PM on June 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
I think what saulgoodman might have been responding to is this:
angrycat: So Bernie is opining at a rally right nowish that there should be Medicare for All. I mean cool cool cool bro
posted by Coventry at 2:28 PM on June 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
Interesting... just got an email with a one-question survey from Joni Ernst's office: "Do you support this legislation to repeal and replace Obamacare?"
Somebody's taking the temperature.
posted by jason_steakums at 2:29 PM on June 25, 2017 [10 favorites]
Somebody's taking the temperature.
posted by jason_steakums at 2:29 PM on June 25, 2017 [10 favorites]
if you're projecting what you think the dynamic is here on to the larger population of progressives outside of MeFi, I'd like some examples of what you're talking about
No, not projecting to a larger community. Just saying that I've noted a too-ready, exasperated dismissal of economic concerns occasionally in these threads, an occasional assumption that if one brings up Democratic economic strategy one is necessarily short-changing other strategic Dem interests. I absolutely agree with you when you say, of economic issues and issues of racial identity and discrimination, "Democrats can and should be both/and with these issues instead of either/or."
Please don't ever put Rahm Emmanuel and economic justice in the same category without first looking at Rahm does instead of what he says.
I didn't do what you're claiming I did. I'm on your side. I'd ask for a more generous reading of my words.
posted by Lyme Drop at 2:36 PM on June 25, 2017
No, not projecting to a larger community. Just saying that I've noted a too-ready, exasperated dismissal of economic concerns occasionally in these threads, an occasional assumption that if one brings up Democratic economic strategy one is necessarily short-changing other strategic Dem interests. I absolutely agree with you when you say, of economic issues and issues of racial identity and discrimination, "Democrats can and should be both/and with these issues instead of either/or."
Please don't ever put Rahm Emmanuel and economic justice in the same category without first looking at Rahm does instead of what he says.
I didn't do what you're claiming I did. I'm on your side. I'd ask for a more generous reading of my words.
posted by Lyme Drop at 2:36 PM on June 25, 2017
Somebody's taking the temperature.
That's weird. She's not up again until 2020. Sure the PVI is only R+3 but two extra years is plenty of time to gaslight the district. Maybe she wants to try and survive some 2020 Republican slaughter by telling the electorate she voted not to kill the poor and infirm. A moderate, more caring Republican who can carry fiscal responsibility without the spite and personal vendetta against those less well off.
posted by Talez at 2:37 PM on June 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
That's weird. She's not up again until 2020. Sure the PVI is only R+3 but two extra years is plenty of time to gaslight the district. Maybe she wants to try and survive some 2020 Republican slaughter by telling the electorate she voted not to kill the poor and infirm. A moderate, more caring Republican who can carry fiscal responsibility without the spite and personal vendetta against those less well off.
posted by Talez at 2:37 PM on June 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
Mod note: Comment removed; do not edit to add stuff, just slow down, figure out what you missed the first time, and add a followup comment as needed.
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:54 PM on June 25, 2017
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:54 PM on June 25, 2017
two extra years is plenty of time to gaslight the district.
[Comment removed; do not edit to add stuff, just slow down, figure out what you missed the first time, and add a followup comment as needed.]
Alright, here's the slowed down comment, 'cause you're right, that was a bit over the top.
But, two years (and here's where the slowing down gets dark) hopefully isn't enough to gaslight the district. The R's are about to commit a Holocaust/Holomodor/Armenian Genocide/Khmer Rouge/choose your genocide level of slaughter upon the American people.
Yes, those are my references. Hundreds of thousands will die. Do not assume this will be the end of the road, they will continue once they gut Obamacare, and there will be further blood orgies. Insurance will continue to spiral up, people will get sicker, jails will get larger...blah blah blah.
I don't know how to articulate an anti-death platform, but I want one. Two years is not enough to forget. We remember the Mongol slaughter 800 years later, we remember the sack of Troy, ferchrissake, and less died there than will die with the AHCA. This is not just an assault on you now, it is an assault on you for the ages. For the love of humanity, mar their names with the slaughter they want to commit through the ages.
posted by saysthis at 3:07 PM on June 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
[Comment removed; do not edit to add stuff, just slow down, figure out what you missed the first time, and add a followup comment as needed.]
Alright, here's the slowed down comment, 'cause you're right, that was a bit over the top.
But, two years (and here's where the slowing down gets dark) hopefully isn't enough to gaslight the district. The R's are about to commit a Holocaust/Holomodor/Armenian Genocide/Khmer Rouge/choose your genocide level of slaughter upon the American people.
Yes, those are my references. Hundreds of thousands will die. Do not assume this will be the end of the road, they will continue once they gut Obamacare, and there will be further blood orgies. Insurance will continue to spiral up, people will get sicker, jails will get larger...blah blah blah.
I don't know how to articulate an anti-death platform, but I want one. Two years is not enough to forget. We remember the Mongol slaughter 800 years later, we remember the sack of Troy, ferchrissake, and less died there than will die with the AHCA. This is not just an assault on you now, it is an assault on you for the ages. For the love of humanity, mar their names with the slaughter they want to commit through the ages.
posted by saysthis at 3:07 PM on June 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
I got that email from Joni Ernst as well.
Both the form in the email and the backup link in the email were broken.
(Sigh) I guess I'll have to send another message through resistbot.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 3:26 PM on June 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
Both the form in the email and the backup link in the email were broken.
(Sigh) I guess I'll have to send another message through resistbot.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 3:26 PM on June 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
If it's mass murder when you deliberately and knowingly deprive a population of food (and it is), then it's mass murder when you deliberately and knowingly deprive a population of health care.
posted by Faint of Butt at 3:37 PM on June 25, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 3:37 PM on June 25, 2017 [16 favorites]
I don't know how to articulate an anti-death platform, but I want one.
Too bad only Republicans are allowed to reframe the other side's slogans as their own, the way Trump tried to do with "fake news," or else we might redefine prolife for them and steal the thunder from that whole movement's true anti-science, anti-family planning and welfare orientation.
Hell, we haven't even been able to reclaim "welfare" as a not dirty word and it's been right there in the preamble to the constitution all along. Not sure why we always cede that ground to Republicans, especially when their framing is demonstrably counter historical and dishonest. Maybe it's related to most on the leftish spectrum being absolute descriptivists on language use. Seems like we never push back against Republicans' reframing of our ideas with any real sense of urgency or moral conviction, even while most of us acknowledge words do matter when pressed.
posted by saulgoodman at 3:37 PM on June 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
Too bad only Republicans are allowed to reframe the other side's slogans as their own, the way Trump tried to do with "fake news," or else we might redefine prolife for them and steal the thunder from that whole movement's true anti-science, anti-family planning and welfare orientation.
Hell, we haven't even been able to reclaim "welfare" as a not dirty word and it's been right there in the preamble to the constitution all along. Not sure why we always cede that ground to Republicans, especially when their framing is demonstrably counter historical and dishonest. Maybe it's related to most on the leftish spectrum being absolute descriptivists on language use. Seems like we never push back against Republicans' reframing of our ideas with any real sense of urgency or moral conviction, even while most of us acknowledge words do matter when pressed.
posted by saulgoodman at 3:37 PM on June 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
\It's not the same thing as the Khmer Rouge executing everyone who wore glasses .
Fair enough, but it feels that way. I relinquish my comment to deletion.
posted by saysthis at 3:44 PM on June 25, 2017
Fair enough, but it feels that way. I relinquish my comment to deletion.
posted by saysthis at 3:44 PM on June 25, 2017
Nobody ever wants to start stacking up the skull pyramids for capitalism.
posted by Artw at 3:45 PM on June 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 3:45 PM on June 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
Mod note: Let's just maybe move on from the "strict definition of genocide" conversation as asked-and-answered? Thanks.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:48 PM on June 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:48 PM on June 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
The Republicans also dodge the trolley car morality problems by defunding trolley cars.
posted by srboisvert at 3:54 PM on June 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 3:54 PM on June 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
You know what the hard thing is? Ensuring the integrity of the dialogue.
They lied. So many times.
Let's focus on that. Let's remember and repost and re-say THAT.
I fugged up, sorry, I admit it, but there's THAT THING, because that's the thing I want an end to, and I know you do too.
posted by saysthis at 4:04 PM on June 25, 2017
They lied. So many times.
Let's focus on that. Let's remember and repost and re-say THAT.
I fugged up, sorry, I admit it, but there's THAT THING, because that's the thing I want an end to, and I know you do too.
posted by saysthis at 4:04 PM on June 25, 2017
If Republicans Are Pro-Life, Why Don't They Care About My Child?
posted by Talez at 4:48 PM on June 25, 2017 [64 favorites]
Preemies are at high risk for respiratory infections because of their underdeveloped lungs, for example; the most dangerous is Respiratory Syncytial Virus (RSV), which Layla's pediatrician gave her a special, but expensive, vaccine for.Marie Clare getting political now.
Not long after, we moved to a new city and my husband took a new job. But our new insurance provider refused to cover the medication: five shots that we were told would cost us $4,000 each. We couldn't afford it, and a few weeks later Layla ended up in the hospital with, of course, RSV.
I called the insurance company again, and told them how sick she was. I begged. They told me Layla would have to be in danger of imminent death for them to cover her. Desperate, I called Layla's old pediatrician in New York, who was so concerned that he had me drive Layla there and gave her the shot himself. We did this every month—drove from Boston to New York to get my sick child a shot that she needed but we couldn't afford.
posted by Talez at 4:48 PM on June 25, 2017 [64 favorites]
republicans don't believe in anything except bulges - the bulge in their wallets and the bulge in their pants
posted by pyramid termite at 4:53 PM on June 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by pyramid termite at 4:53 PM on June 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
yeah, it just sucks that buying a guitar comes with strings attached ...
posted by pyramid termite at 5:00 PM on June 25, 2017 [90 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 5:00 PM on June 25, 2017 [90 favorites]
Would Norquist's tweet be materially different if it said "private toll road fee to drive to the guitar store" instead of "sales tax?"
I mean, it would be too many characters and so he might just shut up instead, so that's a plus.
posted by zachlipton at 5:01 PM on June 25, 2017 [11 favorites]
I mean, it would be too many characters and so he might just shut up instead, so that's a plus.
posted by zachlipton at 5:01 PM on June 25, 2017 [11 favorites]
TBH the way prices are usually given sans tax in the US *is* kind of dumb and annoying, so I'd welcome change there.
posted by Artw at 5:08 PM on June 25, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Artw at 5:08 PM on June 25, 2017 [14 favorites]
Wouldn't a $35 guitar probably be a bit shit in the first place?
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:15 PM on June 25, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:15 PM on June 25, 2017 [18 favorites]
He should just move to Oregon.
Wait, please don't move to Oregon.
posted by johnpowell at 5:15 PM on June 25, 2017 [7 favorites]
Wait, please don't move to Oregon.
posted by johnpowell at 5:15 PM on June 25, 2017 [7 favorites]
yeah, it just sucks that buying a guitar comes with strings attached ...
*opens door helpfully, clears throat*
posted by petebest at 5:19 PM on June 25, 2017 [12 favorites]
*opens door helpfully, clears throat*
posted by petebest at 5:19 PM on June 25, 2017 [12 favorites]
A $35 dollar guitar was not made in America.
posted by misterpatrick at 5:23 PM on June 25, 2017 [39 favorites]
posted by misterpatrick at 5:23 PM on June 25, 2017 [39 favorites]
lalex: "Sunday evening hilarity! Grover Norquist has served up an extremely stupid tweet:"
It would be fun to see how many of his tweets you would have to dig through to find one that isn't stupid, if your idea of fun is spending time in the sewer looking for the best rat.
posted by double block and bleed at 5:23 PM on June 25, 2017 [11 favorites]
It would be fun to see how many of his tweets you would have to dig through to find one that isn't stupid, if your idea of fun is spending time in the sewer looking for the best rat.
posted by double block and bleed at 5:23 PM on June 25, 2017 [11 favorites]
"How republicans are born.
Daughter, 8, has been savings up to buy her first Guitar.
Found it for $35 on ebay. She had 35 exact.
Then...$100 shipping. Also someone sniped her at the last second by a cent anyway.
'That's capitalism', I told her and she agreed it was brilliant."
posted by dng at 5:23 PM on June 25, 2017 [27 favorites]
Daughter, 8, has been savings up to buy her first Guitar.
Found it for $35 on ebay. She had 35 exact.
Then...$100 shipping. Also someone sniped her at the last second by a cent anyway.
'That's capitalism', I told her and she agreed it was brilliant."
posted by dng at 5:23 PM on June 25, 2017 [27 favorites]
"You tell her she gets her allowance from a dude who works for a tax-free non-profit? B/C she should be thanking us taxpayers for her guitar.
BTW, tell her we say she's very welcome. She should have a guitar. That's how Democrats explain shit to their kids."
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:25 PM on June 25, 2017 [12 favorites]
BTW, tell her we say she's very welcome. She should have a guitar. That's how Democrats explain shit to their kids."
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:25 PM on June 25, 2017 [12 favorites]
Huh. i'm surprised to learn from Mr. Norquist that every US state and territory except Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire, and Oregon are run by Democrats.
posted by Sys Rq at 5:39 PM on June 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Sys Rq at 5:39 PM on June 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
Wittes said the Boom would probably be Friday or Monday. He only ever seems to tick about things that he personally knows are in the pipeline, though.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:41 PM on June 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:41 PM on June 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
Is that ass-clown still trying to keep that 'tick tick' thing going? Fuck that.
posted by thelonius at 5:43 PM on June 25, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 5:43 PM on June 25, 2017 [7 favorites]
So Norquist basically concedes that republicans understand socioeconomics at the visceral level of an 8 year old.
posted by p3t3 at 5:48 PM on June 25, 2017 [46 favorites]
posted by p3t3 at 5:48 PM on June 25, 2017 [46 favorites]
Is that ass-clown still trying to keep that 'tick tick' thing going? Fuck that.
He's on my list (that's right, there's a list!! channeling our inner Nixons) of ANNOYING NOISE! DISREGARD! along with so many others whose names don't deserve the space here.
But thanks to this bozo now I have the 60 Minutes ticking intro stuck in my head. As well as Homer Simpson's impression of it when they did a parody of The Shining.
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 5:51 PM on June 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
He's on my list (that's right, there's a list!! channeling our inner Nixons) of ANNOYING NOISE! DISREGARD! along with so many others whose names don't deserve the space here.
But thanks to this bozo now I have the 60 Minutes ticking intro stuck in my head. As well as Homer Simpson's impression of it when they did a parody of The Shining.
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 5:51 PM on June 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
Mensch should get a noise. Maybe she could start making farty sounds.
posted by Artw at 5:53 PM on June 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Artw at 5:53 PM on June 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
So I'm no Scoops MacKenzie, but I did find these articles on House Intelligence Hokey-Pokier Devin Nunes interesting in that he apparently disclosed his net worth as being $51,000 and that 98% of that is invested in a wine company with "a few" suppliers outside the US, mainly Russia's largest. Oh, and no suppliers in any NATO countries.
It’s also odd that Alpha Omega Winery would have a relationship with Russia’s largest distributor when they only have a relationship with one Western nation (Switzerland). They don’t have any relationships with any other distributor in the EU, which means no relationships with NATO allies at all.
Probably nothin'.
posted by petebest at 5:59 PM on June 25, 2017 [11 favorites]
It’s also odd that Alpha Omega Winery would have a relationship with Russia’s largest distributor when they only have a relationship with one Western nation (Switzerland). They don’t have any relationships with any other distributor in the EU, which means no relationships with NATO allies at all.
Probably nothin'.
posted by petebest at 5:59 PM on June 25, 2017 [11 favorites]
It's kind of weird that his entire wealth is allegedly in one company, but I looked the winery up and its website reports distributors in ten countries- not including Russia, oddly. So I think the alleged "strong" ties to Russia are unsupported by the evidence.
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:25 PM on June 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:25 PM on June 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
Alpha Omega Winery
That's not a name that would be used by a front company for a global apocalyptic conspiracy cult at all.
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:26 PM on June 25, 2017 [42 favorites]
That's not a name that would be used by a front company for a global apocalyptic conspiracy cult at all.
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:26 PM on June 25, 2017 [42 favorites]
Once you're talking about Devin Nunes' winery investments you're probably approaching Charlie Day level theorizing.
posted by Justinian at 6:29 PM on June 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 6:29 PM on June 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
Official Snopes Finding?
. . .
. . .
UNPROVEN
*musical sting*
Carter confirmed that Luding was the broker that sells Alpha Omega’s wine to Russian customers, but added the information was removed from the California winery’s web site because it was out of date. Luding still lists Alpha Omega on its web site as a supplier, along with six other U.S. wineries. Purchasers can select one of three offerings from Alpha Omega (which were, as the company stated, from vintages prior to 2013: a 2009 cabernet sauvignon, a 2010 proprietary red or a 2012 chardonnay). Luding also lists wine makers from 31 other countries among its suppliers including France, Spain, Italy, South Africa and New Zealand.
New Zealand!
*musical sting*
("proprietary red"?)
posted by petebest at 6:33 PM on June 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
. . .
. . .
UNPROVEN
*musical sting*
Carter confirmed that Luding was the broker that sells Alpha Omega’s wine to Russian customers, but added the information was removed from the California winery’s web site because it was out of date. Luding still lists Alpha Omega on its web site as a supplier, along with six other U.S. wineries. Purchasers can select one of three offerings from Alpha Omega (which were, as the company stated, from vintages prior to 2013: a 2009 cabernet sauvignon, a 2010 proprietary red or a 2012 chardonnay). Luding also lists wine makers from 31 other countries among its suppliers including France, Spain, Italy, South Africa and New Zealand.
New Zealand!
*musical sting*
("proprietary red"?)
posted by petebest at 6:33 PM on June 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
Snopes link
Note that the "31 other countries" is Re: Luding, not Alpha and Omega Winery.
posted by petebest at 6:38 PM on June 25, 2017
Note that the "31 other countries" is Re: Luding, not Alpha and Omega Winery.
posted by petebest at 6:38 PM on June 25, 2017
From the Washington Post: Kushner firm’s $285 million Deutsche Bank loan came just before Election Day.
It's got it all: undisclosed Deutsche Bank loans to Kushner on real estate bought from Putin buddy Lev Leviev and, because millennials are gonna millennial, Ivanka and Jared memorializing their business deal on Instagram.
posted by peeedro at 6:38 PM on June 25, 2017 [37 favorites]
It's got it all: undisclosed Deutsche Bank loans to Kushner on real estate bought from Putin buddy Lev Leviev and, because millennials are gonna millennial, Ivanka and Jared memorializing their business deal on Instagram.
posted by peeedro at 6:38 PM on June 25, 2017 [37 favorites]
If something big doesn't drop by tomorrow night I'm putting Wittes in the Mensch basket.
posted by Justinian at 6:40 PM on June 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 6:40 PM on June 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
Parents of sick kids try to remind Congress what the health-care debate should be about
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:49 PM on June 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:49 PM on June 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
"proprietary red" just means "a blend of red, maybe not traditional, something the winemaker wanted to try based on the fruit available." Those can be great bottles and usually closer to "affordable."
posted by notyou at 7:08 PM on June 25, 2017
posted by notyou at 7:08 PM on June 25, 2017
My kid is about to turn 11, so he's known about tax for a while.
When he first noticed, back when he was around 6 or 7, that the prices listed on things weren't the price we paid we explained that everyone paid a little bit every time they bought something, and that let roads, schools, police, firefighters, and so on exist. He thought it sounded like an OK deal.
He was, and remains, irked that the price tag is wrong though. He says the price tag should include tax, and I agree with him.
In Japan it does. In many countries it does. You see the price, you pay the price, no need to think "and add around 10% for tax", because it's already on the listed price.
And yes, I know that tax in the US varies from county to county and city to city. OK, so? The price tag on US merchandise is always printed up at the store anyway.
But nope. The only thing we buy in the US where tax is always included in the list price is gasoline.
In some fields we've accepted the fact that the list price is flat out lying and wrong to a frightening degree. Hotels, airfare, cell phone contracts, internet billing, all have taxes, fees, and so on tacked on after you agree to the purchase that often amount to 20% or more of the theoretical purchase price.
In other words, we don't need to abolish taxes Mr. Norquist, we need to make private companies be honest in their labeling.
posted by sotonohito at 7:22 PM on June 25, 2017 [72 favorites]
When he first noticed, back when he was around 6 or 7, that the prices listed on things weren't the price we paid we explained that everyone paid a little bit every time they bought something, and that let roads, schools, police, firefighters, and so on exist. He thought it sounded like an OK deal.
He was, and remains, irked that the price tag is wrong though. He says the price tag should include tax, and I agree with him.
In Japan it does. In many countries it does. You see the price, you pay the price, no need to think "and add around 10% for tax", because it's already on the listed price.
And yes, I know that tax in the US varies from county to county and city to city. OK, so? The price tag on US merchandise is always printed up at the store anyway.
But nope. The only thing we buy in the US where tax is always included in the list price is gasoline.
In some fields we've accepted the fact that the list price is flat out lying and wrong to a frightening degree. Hotels, airfare, cell phone contracts, internet billing, all have taxes, fees, and so on tacked on after you agree to the purchase that often amount to 20% or more of the theoretical purchase price.
In other words, we don't need to abolish taxes Mr. Norquist, we need to make private companies be honest in their labeling.
posted by sotonohito at 7:22 PM on June 25, 2017 [72 favorites]
I made that same argument as a kid. I award your child 20 points.
posted by Archelaus at 7:28 PM on June 25, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Archelaus at 7:28 PM on June 25, 2017 [8 favorites]
This is great: a graphical, searchable presentation of Amy Siskind's Weekly List of things subtly changing around you under an authoritarian (previously) via the WaPo.
posted by peeedro at 7:28 PM on June 25, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by peeedro at 7:28 PM on June 25, 2017 [14 favorites]
Daughter, 8, has been savings up to buy her first Guitar.
Found it for $35. She had 35 exact.
Then...sales tax"
What kind of wealthy asshole dad makes an eight year old pay for a musical instrument?
posted by srboisvert at 7:36 PM on June 25, 2017 [23 favorites]
Found it for $35. She had 35 exact.
Then...sales tax"
What kind of wealthy asshole dad makes an eight year old pay for a musical instrument?
posted by srboisvert at 7:36 PM on June 25, 2017 [23 favorites]
wait until it's time for her wedding
posted by pyramid termite at 7:41 PM on June 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 7:41 PM on June 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
What kind of wealthy asshole dad makes an eight year old pay for a musical instrument?
The kind who spent his kid's music budget on vaping gear.
posted by Behemoth at 7:42 PM on June 25, 2017 [13 favorites]
The kind who spent his kid's music budget on vaping gear.
posted by Behemoth at 7:42 PM on June 25, 2017 [13 favorites]
> This is great: a graphical, searchable presentation of Amy Siskind's Weekly List of things subtly changing around you under an authoritarian (previously) via the WaPo.
That's not great, it's a fucking nightmare.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:43 PM on June 25, 2017 [7 favorites]
That's not great, it's a fucking nightmare.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:43 PM on June 25, 2017 [7 favorites]
Yeah, I could have phrased that better.
posted by peeedro at 7:44 PM on June 25, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by peeedro at 7:44 PM on June 25, 2017 [7 favorites]
In some fields we've accepted the fact that the list price is flat out lying and wrong to a frightening degree. Hotels, airfare, cell phone contracts, internet billing, all have taxes, fees, and so on tacked on after you agree to the purchase that often amount to 20% or more of the theoretical purchase price.
I always feel like I have no idea what I am actually buying until the end and then you're all, "I didn't expect THAT much. Shit." And yeah, in this culture we're lied to allllll the time about how much expensive shit is going to cost. Don't even get me started on the last time I had to deal with my cell company.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:58 PM on June 25, 2017 [7 favorites]
I always feel like I have no idea what I am actually buying until the end and then you're all, "I didn't expect THAT much. Shit." And yeah, in this culture we're lied to allllll the time about how much expensive shit is going to cost. Don't even get me started on the last time I had to deal with my cell company.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:58 PM on June 25, 2017 [7 favorites]
In other words, we don't need to abolish taxes Mr. Norquist, we need to make private companies be honest in their labeling.
And Grover Norquist is 100% diametrically opposed to your suggestion. He wants paying taxes to be as painful and obvious as possible.
For example, California had a pilot program that tested having the government automatically compute your state income tax, which is trivial for most simple wage earners. It was wildly sucessful and popular among the test group. But people believe that it was TurboTax and H.R. Block that lobbied against it. Nope, it was Grover Norquist who threatened to primary any state rep who supported the new program and killed it.
Norquist desperately wants his daughter to feel the pain of losing a guitar. He's an abusive jerk.
posted by JackFlash at 8:15 PM on June 25, 2017 [51 favorites]
And Grover Norquist is 100% diametrically opposed to your suggestion. He wants paying taxes to be as painful and obvious as possible.
For example, California had a pilot program that tested having the government automatically compute your state income tax, which is trivial for most simple wage earners. It was wildly sucessful and popular among the test group. But people believe that it was TurboTax and H.R. Block that lobbied against it. Nope, it was Grover Norquist who threatened to primary any state rep who supported the new program and killed it.
Norquist desperately wants his daughter to feel the pain of losing a guitar. He's an abusive jerk.
posted by JackFlash at 8:15 PM on June 25, 2017 [51 favorites]
Isn't Norquist, like, 120 years old? How does he have an 8 year old anything?
posted by Yowser at 8:21 PM on June 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 8:21 PM on June 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
Isn't Norquist, like, 120 years old? How does he have an 8 year old anything?
Something something blood of young virgins.
Actually he's only 60 and his daughter is adopted.
posted by Talez at 8:28 PM on June 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
Something something blood of young virgins.
Actually he's only 60 and his daughter is adopted.
posted by Talez at 8:28 PM on June 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
A friend of mine went to college with him and I found this photo of him in a Hasty Pudding program.
posted by jessamyn at 8:50 PM on June 25, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by jessamyn at 8:50 PM on June 25, 2017 [8 favorites]
We should crowdfund a decent guitar for his daughter.
posted by ian1977 at 9:03 PM on June 25, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 9:03 PM on June 25, 2017 [11 favorites]
(I wish Metafilter allowed me to tag specific users - I'd keep tonycpsu's comment way back here handy as this story develops...)
NYT: Senate Leaders Try to Appease Members as Support for Health Bill Slips
"... Senate leaders have been trying to lock down Republican votes by funneling money to red states, engineering a special deal for Alaska and arguing that they could insure more people at a lower cost than the House ..."
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:11 PM on June 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
NYT: Senate Leaders Try to Appease Members as Support for Health Bill Slips
"... Senate leaders have been trying to lock down Republican votes by funneling money to red states, engineering a special deal for Alaska and arguing that they could insure more people at a lower cost than the House ..."
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:11 PM on June 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
jason_steakums: "
It's absolutely a punishment by the legislative branch, for a "crime" that isn't even an actual crime except in the twisted hearts of the GOP. It probably doesn't technically pass the test for a bill of attainder but that's only because of the thinnest veil of fiction covering it, the "crime" and the target are just so heavily implied as to be clear as day instead of spelled out directly - Planned Parenthood provides perfectly legal abortion services and they specifically are being punished for it."
I'm sorry, I don't mean to be difficult, but this is just not correct at all, and not in a "thinnest veil" sense. A bill of attainder says person (or group) X is guilty of crime Y, without the trouble of going to court and actually proving guilt and so forth. "jason_steakums is guilty of the crime of high treason", for example. And then you automatically suffer whatever the penalty of high treason is. The Founders were keen on making this sort of thing illegal, because this is how the government's enemies in Britain tended to end up dead.
What we're talking about here is the government not giving federal money to people/groups who meet certain criteria. Now it's possible this is illegal somehow, although I'm not sure how. But "we're not going to give money to group X" is not at all the same as "group X is hereby found guilty of committing a crime."
Please note this is *not* a defense of what the GOP is up to.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:13 PM on June 25, 2017 [8 favorites]
It's absolutely a punishment by the legislative branch, for a "crime" that isn't even an actual crime except in the twisted hearts of the GOP. It probably doesn't technically pass the test for a bill of attainder but that's only because of the thinnest veil of fiction covering it, the "crime" and the target are just so heavily implied as to be clear as day instead of spelled out directly - Planned Parenthood provides perfectly legal abortion services and they specifically are being punished for it."
I'm sorry, I don't mean to be difficult, but this is just not correct at all, and not in a "thinnest veil" sense. A bill of attainder says person (or group) X is guilty of crime Y, without the trouble of going to court and actually proving guilt and so forth. "jason_steakums is guilty of the crime of high treason", for example. And then you automatically suffer whatever the penalty of high treason is. The Founders were keen on making this sort of thing illegal, because this is how the government's enemies in Britain tended to end up dead.
What we're talking about here is the government not giving federal money to people/groups who meet certain criteria. Now it's possible this is illegal somehow, although I'm not sure how. But "we're not going to give money to group X" is not at all the same as "group X is hereby found guilty of committing a crime."
Please note this is *not* a defense of what the GOP is up to.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:13 PM on June 25, 2017 [8 favorites]
Again, only by the thinnest razor, since this is being done because the GOP considers abortion a crime.
posted by Archelaus at 9:18 PM on June 25, 2017
posted by Archelaus at 9:18 PM on June 25, 2017
Wow, they're not even trying to hide things any more. More details now in the same story I linked above:
One noteworthy exception to [a provision to redistribute Federal money from high-Medicaid-expenditure states to low-Medicaid-expenditure states] is tailor-made for Alaska. “This paragraph shall not apply to any state that has a population density of less than 15 individuals per square mile,” it says. Only five states — Alaska, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota and Wyoming — meet that criterion
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:19 PM on June 25, 2017 [10 favorites]
One noteworthy exception to [a provision to redistribute Federal money from high-Medicaid-expenditure states to low-Medicaid-expenditure states] is tailor-made for Alaska. “This paragraph shall not apply to any state that has a population density of less than 15 individuals per square mile,” it says. Only five states — Alaska, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota and Wyoming — meet that criterion
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:19 PM on June 25, 2017 [10 favorites]
RedOrGreen: Only five states — Alaska, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota and Wyoming — meet that criterion
Those states have never been pandered to so effectively!
posted by Superplin at 9:20 PM on June 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
Those states have never been pandered to so effectively!
posted by Superplin at 9:20 PM on June 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
Okay, I will just drop this discussion. All I can say is I see a MAJOR distinction between "circumventing the judicial system and punishing you - maybe murdering you! - without trial" and "cutting funding to your program."
posted by Chrysostom at 9:27 PM on June 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 9:27 PM on June 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
Oh, I knew a guy who lived next to Norquist a few years back. Said he was a complete asshole, shockingly.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:28 PM on June 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 9:28 PM on June 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
Ohio dot gov sites hacked, replaced with IS messages and threats to 45.bbc reports
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 9:31 PM on June 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 9:31 PM on June 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
Chrysotom, I don't think you're being difficult! Actually I'm enjoying the discussion (though I fear I introduced a derail with it maybe). I'll just say, I don't think it's a lock as a bill of attainder legally speaking, but it's awfully close to the Defund ACORN Act except for the thinly veiled targeting, and the lawsuit that came out of that had legs and was only really stopped because the relatively low amount of funding ACORN lost with the legislation wasn't seen as enough to be a punishment (which is a problematic call, imo, but that's how it ended up).
posted by jason_steakums at 9:36 PM on June 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by jason_steakums at 9:36 PM on June 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yeah. I don't think you're being difficult here, either. I just also think that, in any sane universe, this sort of "single agency targeted defunding slap" can and should still be referred to in the same language.
If there's some other more appropriate legal language to call it, I suppose I am interested in hearing it, but not using the "nearly there" label because it's not 100% accurate frustrates me, because I feel like by not labeling and calling attention to this sort of practice, it slips by.
posted by Archelaus at 9:40 PM on June 25, 2017
If there's some other more appropriate legal language to call it, I suppose I am interested in hearing it, but not using the "nearly there" label because it's not 100% accurate frustrates me, because I feel like by not labeling and calling attention to this sort of practice, it slips by.
posted by Archelaus at 9:40 PM on June 25, 2017
Ugh, from that Ohio hacking article:
Ohio State Treasurer Josh Mandel posted a tweet telling "freedom-loving Americans" that radical Islam was "infiltrating the heartland".
Like... ISIS hackers didn't literally sit down in a server room in Ohio and plug in a flash drive, tone it down a bit with the fearmongering.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:42 PM on June 25, 2017 [10 favorites]
Ohio State Treasurer Josh Mandel posted a tweet telling "freedom-loving Americans" that radical Islam was "infiltrating the heartland".
Like... ISIS hackers didn't literally sit down in a server room in Ohio and plug in a flash drive, tone it down a bit with the fearmongering.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:42 PM on June 25, 2017 [10 favorites]
The Howard County, Md government website was also hacked.
posted by peeedro at 9:48 PM on June 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by peeedro at 9:48 PM on June 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
From the BBC article:The message on Mr Kasich's site also played an Islamic call to prayer.
Autoplaying audio?
That's some evil, right there.
posted by MrVisible at 10:16 PM on June 25, 2017 [11 favorites]
Autoplaying audio?
That's some evil, right there.
posted by MrVisible at 10:16 PM on June 25, 2017 [11 favorites]
Just Wait: Watergate didn’t become Watergate overnight, either.
13 Predictions on How Long Trump’s Presidency Will Last
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:40 PM on June 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
13 Predictions on How Long Trump’s Presidency Will Last
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:40 PM on June 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
So one fun thing that just occurred to me tonight is that the Republicans can increase the Medicaid cap growth rate from CPI-U to the medical inflation rate and the CBO score probably won't change much. So they can "fix" the bill to make it less "mean," yet it won't, on paper, blow up the deficit, because the CBO normally only looks at a 10-year budget window, and the current BCRA draft doesn't slow the cap growth rate until 2015. All a 10-year CBO score should show, as I understand it, is two year's difference in the growth It's a nice magic trick, because they'll be able to claim they made the bill better without it showing up as a significant cost.
The part of this where I really throw up my hands and wonder what is going to happen is how this works if the anti-Planned Parenthood provisions get stripped out in the Byrd Bath. It's unclear to me whether that would be enough to get Collins and Murkowski back, but how many conservatives do you lose when they flip out at the prospect that a dollar they voted for could go to Planned Parenthood for non-abortion reproductive care?
Vox: Privately, health plan worries Senate bill would “cause most small employers’ premiums to go up”. Again, if you think none of this can hurt you if you have insurance from your employer, you're wrong.
It's also increasingly clear to me, including a conversation I had tonight with someone in a position to know, that the insurance companies are far from happy with the bill, but are staying quiet so as to avoid pissing off the Republicans so they can try to sneak some amendments in when they absolutely need them. The happiness of insurers is not ordinarily a primary consideration I apply to health policy, but unlike the GOP, they actually analyze this stuff to see what the effects will be, and an individual market with guaranteed issue without an individual mandate is pretty concerning.
posted by zachlipton at 10:52 PM on June 25, 2017 [16 favorites]
The part of this where I really throw up my hands and wonder what is going to happen is how this works if the anti-Planned Parenthood provisions get stripped out in the Byrd Bath. It's unclear to me whether that would be enough to get Collins and Murkowski back, but how many conservatives do you lose when they flip out at the prospect that a dollar they voted for could go to Planned Parenthood for non-abortion reproductive care?
Vox: Privately, health plan worries Senate bill would “cause most small employers’ premiums to go up”. Again, if you think none of this can hurt you if you have insurance from your employer, you're wrong.
It's also increasingly clear to me, including a conversation I had tonight with someone in a position to know, that the insurance companies are far from happy with the bill, but are staying quiet so as to avoid pissing off the Republicans so they can try to sneak some amendments in when they absolutely need them. The happiness of insurers is not ordinarily a primary consideration I apply to health policy, but unlike the GOP, they actually analyze this stuff to see what the effects will be, and an individual market with guaranteed issue without an individual mandate is pretty concerning.
posted by zachlipton at 10:52 PM on June 25, 2017 [16 favorites]
Barbara Lee hosted a really woke political forum on Saturday with Keith Ellison, moderated by Van Jones. Indivisible managed to live stream some of it, and record a bunch more, and I just finished captioning the largest portion.
The video, with captions.
I was trying to pick out a pull quote for you MetaFilter, but it's all so good. I think my favorite part is 13:40 to 18:57 where Van Jones speaks truth about the one-way expectations made on black voters.
posted by books for weapons at 1:22 AM on June 26, 2017 [16 favorites]
The video, with captions.
I was trying to pick out a pull quote for you MetaFilter, but it's all so good. I think my favorite part is 13:40 to 18:57 where Van Jones speaks truth about the one-way expectations made on black voters.
posted by books for weapons at 1:22 AM on June 26, 2017 [16 favorites]
Again via @onlxn: a (not so) quick note about insurance and the government and being super-disabled
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:01 AM on June 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:01 AM on June 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
My thoughts on reading that Ohio/ISIS story went something like this...
Now that we've demonstrated how terribly vulnerable we are to cyber warfare, everyone wants in on the act.
Next I expect the wannabe hackers of 4-chan to pull some kind of prank with a state or county government website...
Wait... do we know THIS isn't them? Seems like their style.
(Re-reads link)
"The group known as Team System DZ has carried out a number of hacking sprees in the past, many carrying anti-Israel messages."
Nothing in that which rules out American script kiddies. Really, Anti-Isreal and pro Islamic State messages seem like something they'd find HILARIOUS.
Not that I think ISIS is incapable of this either, not at all. Actually I think the disaffected young men who join ISIS probably have quite a bit in common with the disaffected young men who join 4-chan, so I could see this being either one.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:48 AM on June 26, 2017 [16 favorites]
Now that we've demonstrated how terribly vulnerable we are to cyber warfare, everyone wants in on the act.
Next I expect the wannabe hackers of 4-chan to pull some kind of prank with a state or county government website...
Wait... do we know THIS isn't them? Seems like their style.
(Re-reads link)
"The group known as Team System DZ has carried out a number of hacking sprees in the past, many carrying anti-Israel messages."
Nothing in that which rules out American script kiddies. Really, Anti-Isreal and pro Islamic State messages seem like something they'd find HILARIOUS.
Not that I think ISIS is incapable of this either, not at all. Actually I think the disaffected young men who join ISIS probably have quite a bit in common with the disaffected young men who join 4-chan, so I could see this being either one.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:48 AM on June 26, 2017 [16 favorites]
OnceUponATime, I had a similar reaction when I saw the headline--How do we know this isn't something homegrown? Some kind of setup? etc...
Headlines about violence at protests and politics-related assaults bring up a related thought process for me. Who's the perp? Which "side" are they on? What are their motivations--and their next steps? And how is this latest attack going to be spun in print, talking head platforms, and justification for executive/legislative actions?
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 4:12 AM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Headlines about violence at protests and politics-related assaults bring up a related thought process for me. Who's the perp? Which "side" are they on? What are their motivations--and their next steps? And how is this latest attack going to be spun in print, talking head platforms, and justification for executive/legislative actions?
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 4:12 AM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
In Montreal, the people trying to start shit with police were... agent provocateurs from the police.
Your city may vary (but probably not).
posted by Yowser at 4:17 AM on June 26, 2017 [14 favorites]
Your city may vary (but probably not).
posted by Yowser at 4:17 AM on June 26, 2017 [14 favorites]
> Norquist desperately wants his daughter to feel the pain of losing a guitar. He's an abusive jerk.
I don't know about abusive, but this is probably Grover's own version of the heartwarming story he likes to tell about his dad taking him out for ice cream:
It’s the same message that first gestated in his mind when his parents would take him and his younger siblings for ice cream after church on Sundays and his dad would confiscate large bites out of each of their cones, explaining, “This is income tax” or “This is property tax.”
Grover's dad didn't explain what he gained from losing that bit of his ice cream, and now he's not explaining what his daughter gains from not being able to buy that guitar with exactly $35.
posted by The Card Cheat at 4:41 AM on June 26, 2017 [34 favorites]
I don't know about abusive, but this is probably Grover's own version of the heartwarming story he likes to tell about his dad taking him out for ice cream:
It’s the same message that first gestated in his mind when his parents would take him and his younger siblings for ice cream after church on Sundays and his dad would confiscate large bites out of each of their cones, explaining, “This is income tax” or “This is property tax.”
Grover's dad didn't explain what he gained from losing that bit of his ice cream, and now he's not explaining what his daughter gains from not being able to buy that guitar with exactly $35.
posted by The Card Cheat at 4:41 AM on June 26, 2017 [34 favorites]
In Montreal, the people trying to start shit with police were... agent provocateurs from the police.
That's interesting, though I don't think it fits the conventional definition of agents provocateurs. It appears that an anonymous police source leaked a provably-false story about the mayor to a reporter, the reporter tried to verify the story and decided it wasn't legit enough to publish, the mayor "found out" about the reporter checking into the story, and then the mayor demanded that the police investigate the reporter ostensibly as some sort of parity for their cooperation in the reporter's attempt to verify the story. So the police then conducted surveillance on the reporter including hacking into his phone.
So it's corruption and abuse of power with the police cleverly setting up the mayor to be the fall guy for their attack on the reporter, but at no point did they pretend to be anyone other than the police.
posted by XMLicious at 4:42 AM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
That's not the right story, XMLicious. This is the link that I get from Yowser's post, which is indeed about agents provocateurs. I'm not sure what happened there.
posted by hydropsyche at 5:09 AM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by hydropsyche at 5:09 AM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
The people who listen to Norquist are the guys who argue that taxation is theft, then [rich assholes fund campaigns their campaigns to] get elected to get in on the grift.
posted by aspersioncast at 5:16 AM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by aspersioncast at 5:16 AM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Like... ISIS hackers didn't literally sit down in a server room in Ohio and plug in a flash drive, tone it down a bit with the fearmongering.
Well, duh. They were hanging from the ceiling because of the laser beams.
posted by Etrigan at 5:43 AM on June 26, 2017 [16 favorites]
Well, duh. They were hanging from the ceiling because of the laser beams.
posted by Etrigan at 5:43 AM on June 26, 2017 [16 favorites]
Trump's Mirror is strong this morning
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:10 AM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:10 AM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Here's the full text of this morning's realdonaldtrump tweetstorm. It's almost as if he's worried about something.
The Democrats have become nothing but OBSTRUCTIONISTS, they have no policies or ideas. All they do is delay and complain.They own ObamaCare! The reason that President Obama did NOTHING about Russia after being notified by the CIA of meddling is that he expected Clinton would win.....and did not want to "rock the boat." He didn't "choke," he colluded or obstructed, and it did the Dems and Crooked Hillary no good. The real story is that President Obama did NOTHING after being informed in August about Russian meddling. With 4 months looking at Russia.....under a magnifying glass, they have zero "tapes" of T people colluding. There is no collusion & no obstruction. I should be given apology!
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:12 AM on June 26, 2017 [21 favorites]
The Democrats have become nothing but OBSTRUCTIONISTS, they have no policies or ideas. All they do is delay and complain.They own ObamaCare! The reason that President Obama did NOTHING about Russia after being notified by the CIA of meddling is that he expected Clinton would win.....and did not want to "rock the boat." He didn't "choke," he colluded or obstructed, and it did the Dems and Crooked Hillary no good. The real story is that President Obama did NOTHING after being informed in August about Russian meddling. With 4 months looking at Russia.....under a magnifying glass, they have zero "tapes" of T people colluding. There is no collusion & no obstruction. I should be given apology!
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:12 AM on June 26, 2017 [21 favorites]
I think he's upset twitter spent the weekend arguing about whether the GOP are guilty of murder or manslaughter instead of talking about whether he's a dupe or a doofus and he's trying to reignite that convo.
posted by notyou at 6:19 AM on June 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by notyou at 6:19 AM on June 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
You know, if it were me, and I had just said a group "has no policies or ideas" and then in the next sentence I typed that that same group "own[s] Obamacare", that would light up a little synapse that says, hey, aren't you blatantly contradicting what you just said?
posted by thelonius at 6:23 AM on June 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 6:23 AM on June 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
Whoa, new talking point on the Right (FOX, Breitbart) collusion is perfectly fine. It's not a crime to collude with another country in order to win an election.
From Politico:
From Politico:
. IVANKA SPEAKS -- INTERVIEW WITH AINSLEY EARHARDT ON FOX NEWS -- Asked about her father’s tweets: “I try to stay out of politics. I -- his political instincts are phenomenal. He did something that no one could have imagined he'd be able to accomplish. There were very few who thought, early on. I feel blessed just being part of the ride from day one and before. But he did something pretty remarkable. But I don’t profess to be a political savant.”posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:24 AM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
"I try to stay out of politics" says the Senior Advisor to the President.
posted by diogenes at 6:27 AM on June 26, 2017 [88 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 6:27 AM on June 26, 2017 [88 favorites]
It's not politics when you're a totalitarian.
posted by dng at 6:29 AM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by dng at 6:29 AM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
Or it's not politics it's business. Although I'm not sure there's any difference in the long run.
posted by dng at 6:30 AM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by dng at 6:30 AM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
All this talk of "collusion is fine" and Trump's most recent twitter tirades:
posted by pjenks at 6:33 AM on June 26, 2017 [21 favorites]
[Obama] colluded or obstructed [when he didn't publicly declare Russian meddling] (26Jun)makes me think that Wittes' bomb today is going to involve actual details of Trump-Russia collusion. It sounds like they are pre-butting something big.
Hillary Clinton colluded with the Democratic Party in order to beat Crazy Bernie Sanders. Is she allowed to so collude? (25Jun)
posted by pjenks at 6:33 AM on June 26, 2017 [21 favorites]
One of the most appalling things about the whole situation is that the President of the United States can refer in public to a former First Lady, Senator and Secretary of State as "crooked" and that's not the biggest outrage. The coarsened discourse this President has brought us will infect our country for years.
posted by yhbc at 6:34 AM on June 26, 2017 [55 favorites]
posted by yhbc at 6:34 AM on June 26, 2017 [55 favorites]
It sounds like they are pre-butting something big.
Or that Donald Trump literally doesn't know the definition of 'collusion.' I'm 50/50 on that.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:39 AM on June 26, 2017 [14 favorites]
Or that Donald Trump literally doesn't know the definition of 'collusion.' I'm 50/50 on that.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:39 AM on June 26, 2017 [14 favorites]
"Why do they keep saying I was in a collusion? I didn't crash into anything!"
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:40 AM on June 26, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:40 AM on June 26, 2017 [13 favorites]
I've been a mostly-lurking MeFite since nearly the beginning (mostly with a different username). For years, I never missed an FPP. I didn't delve into them all, but I at least read every word on the front page.
I just rediscovered the non-catch-all-thread part of Metafilter again!! For months, I've just tried to keep up with these threads and I've been so appreciative of everyone here. But I somehow forgot that there was a lot more. Today, I've read about painters of the past, some kind-hearted prisoners, whether or not there are more Falcons fans or actual falcons in the world, and a terrifying but fascinating proposal from Amazon regarding drone deliveries.
This is the last place that a plug for metafilter.com is needed, but if you've forgotten about it like I had, go check it out!
posted by Fritzle at 6:41 AM on June 26, 2017 [61 favorites]
I just rediscovered the non-catch-all-thread part of Metafilter again!! For months, I've just tried to keep up with these threads and I've been so appreciative of everyone here. But I somehow forgot that there was a lot more. Today, I've read about painters of the past, some kind-hearted prisoners, whether or not there are more Falcons fans or actual falcons in the world, and a terrifying but fascinating proposal from Amazon regarding drone deliveries.
This is the last place that a plug for metafilter.com is needed, but if you've forgotten about it like I had, go check it out!
posted by Fritzle at 6:41 AM on June 26, 2017 [61 favorites]
Or that Donald Trump literally doesn't know the definition of 'collusion.' I'm 50/50 on that.
Can it not be both?
posted by pjenks at 6:42 AM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
Can it not be both?
posted by pjenks at 6:42 AM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
they have zero "tapes" of T people colluding.
Since this is the second time he's called himself "T" on twitter, it has to be said: I pity the fool.
posted by peeedro at 6:51 AM on June 26, 2017 [24 favorites]
Since this is the second time he's called himself "T" on twitter, it has to be said: I pity the fool.
posted by peeedro at 6:51 AM on June 26, 2017 [24 favorites]
they have zero "tapes" of T people colluding.
There are other kinds of "evidence"
posted by thelonius at 6:53 AM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
There are other kinds of "evidence"
posted by thelonius at 6:53 AM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
makes me think that Wittes' bomb today...
His ticking is accelerating...
posted by diogenes at 6:54 AM on June 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
His ticking is accelerating...
posted by diogenes at 6:54 AM on June 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
SCOTUS granted cert. in Masterpiece Cakeshop today (this is the "my religion is cake-based discrimination and hatred" case). [tweet; case history]
But - SCOTUS summarily orders Arkansas to permit names of same-sex couples on birth certificates. [tweet; backstory; case history]
No SCOTUS action on travel ban case today.
posted by melissasaurus at 6:55 AM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
But - SCOTUS summarily orders Arkansas to permit names of same-sex couples on birth certificates. [tweet; backstory; case history]
No SCOTUS action on travel ban case today.
posted by melissasaurus at 6:55 AM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
Alpha Omega Winery
That's not a name that would be used by a front company for a global apocalyptic conspiracy cult at all.
It's right up there with the Legitimate Businessman's Social Club and Fronty's Meat Market (not a front since 2997).
posted by Servo5678 at 7:04 AM on June 26, 2017 [8 favorites]
That's not a name that would be used by a front company for a global apocalyptic conspiracy cult at all.
It's right up there with the Legitimate Businessman's Social Club and Fronty's Meat Market (not a front since 2997).
posted by Servo5678 at 7:04 AM on June 26, 2017 [8 favorites]
I think the Alex Jones kerfuffle and the Obama failing to disclose Russian hacking problem have a similar root.
Trying to rehash whether or not Obama's inaction on Russia cost Clinton the election is pointless.
But I do think its valuable to note the paternalistic attitude involved with Obama's decision and object to it. We don't need "wiser heads" in the government trying to keep the real goings on in the world secret from us even if they think its for our own good that we're kept in the dark.
Obama should have been more public about what Russia was doing not because it might have influenced the election but because it would have been the right thing to do.
A democracy cannot function on the mushroom principle (that is: keep 'em in the dark and feed 'em shit). For a democracy to work the electorate must be kept informed and up to date on what is actually happening. When the government keeps things from the electorate it is a direct assault on the very foundation of democracy.
On a similar, though not quite so dire from a survival of the republic standpoint, I think that regardless of whether we think interviewing Alex Jones was a good idea or a bad idea (it was a bad idea), I think we need a culture in news media of releasing the complete, unedited, video of all interviews. This isn't the bad old days, they aren't actually limited by broadcast time constraints anymore. Sure, show the edited version to cover the highlights, that's all most people will ever bother with or give a shit about.
But the unedited, complete, video of all interviews should be put up for the public to see on the company's website as a public service. It instantly ends all debates about deceptive editing, and more important, it would let us know what's actually going on if we wanted to spend the time looking instead of having to take anyone's word for it.
More transparency, more publicly available data, less secrecy, and more public involvement. That's what we need.
posted by sotonohito at 7:18 AM on June 26, 2017 [13 favorites]
Trying to rehash whether or not Obama's inaction on Russia cost Clinton the election is pointless.
But I do think its valuable to note the paternalistic attitude involved with Obama's decision and object to it. We don't need "wiser heads" in the government trying to keep the real goings on in the world secret from us even if they think its for our own good that we're kept in the dark.
Obama should have been more public about what Russia was doing not because it might have influenced the election but because it would have been the right thing to do.
A democracy cannot function on the mushroom principle (that is: keep 'em in the dark and feed 'em shit). For a democracy to work the electorate must be kept informed and up to date on what is actually happening. When the government keeps things from the electorate it is a direct assault on the very foundation of democracy.
On a similar, though not quite so dire from a survival of the republic standpoint, I think that regardless of whether we think interviewing Alex Jones was a good idea or a bad idea (it was a bad idea), I think we need a culture in news media of releasing the complete, unedited, video of all interviews. This isn't the bad old days, they aren't actually limited by broadcast time constraints anymore. Sure, show the edited version to cover the highlights, that's all most people will ever bother with or give a shit about.
But the unedited, complete, video of all interviews should be put up for the public to see on the company's website as a public service. It instantly ends all debates about deceptive editing, and more important, it would let us know what's actually going on if we wanted to spend the time looking instead of having to take anyone's word for it.
More transparency, more publicly available data, less secrecy, and more public involvement. That's what we need.
posted by sotonohito at 7:18 AM on June 26, 2017 [13 favorites]
It sounds like they are pre-butting something big.
Or that Donald Trump literally doesn't know the definition of 'collusion.' I'm 50/50 on that.
What surprises me is there is no unified talking point. So you have POTUS accusing Obama of colluding with Russia but then Sean Hannity and Bret Hume saying collusion is not a crime. I expect that the spokespeople for Trump will be out spinning this to try and make a unified theory. ("What the President meant was that Mr. Obama was working with the Russians and it isn't a crime to work with the Russians but he went behind the back of Americans and kept it secret because he was afraid that information would damage Hillary but President Trump believes all Americans have a right to know that Mr. Obama blergh blergh blergh.")
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:21 AM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Or that Donald Trump literally doesn't know the definition of 'collusion.' I'm 50/50 on that.
What surprises me is there is no unified talking point. So you have POTUS accusing Obama of colluding with Russia but then Sean Hannity and Bret Hume saying collusion is not a crime. I expect that the spokespeople for Trump will be out spinning this to try and make a unified theory. ("What the President meant was that Mr. Obama was working with the Russians and it isn't a crime to work with the Russians but he went behind the back of Americans and kept it secret because he was afraid that information would damage Hillary but President Trump believes all Americans have a right to know that Mr. Obama blergh blergh blergh.")
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:21 AM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
AP, Guardian: Koch network 'piggy banks' closed until Republicans pass health and tax reform
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:22 AM on June 26, 2017 [44 favorites]
“There is urgency,” said Tim Phillips, who leads Koch network’s political arm, Americans for Prosperity, at the industrialist brothers’ retreat in Colorado Springs. “We believe we have a window of about 12 months to get as much of it accomplished as possible before the 2018 elections grind policy to a halt.”Oh please, oh please…
The window for action may be even smaller, some Koch allies warned at the weekend retreat that drew roughly 400 participants to the heart of the Rocky Mountains. The price for admission for most was a pledge to give at least $100,000 this year to the Kochs’ broad policy and political network.
There were also at least 18 elected officials on hand. Some hosted private policy discussions with donors while others simply mingled.
In between meetings, Dave Brat, a Virginia Republican representative, predicted dire consequences in next year’s midterm elections should his party fail to deliver on its repeated promises.
“If we don’t get healthcare, none of us are coming back,” he said in a brief interview. “We said for seven years you’re gonna repeal Obamacare. It’s nowhere near repealed.”
It’s the same for tax reform, Brat said: “We don’t get taxes through, we’re all going home. Pack the bags.”
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:22 AM on June 26, 2017 [44 favorites]
"I didn't do X but also X is fine and not a crime and also Obama did X which means he's a criminal and also X is normal and also X is a threat to our democracy."
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:24 AM on June 26, 2017 [56 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:24 AM on June 26, 2017 [56 favorites]
[Obama] colluded or obstructed [when he didn't publicly declare Russian meddling] (26Jun)
Hillary Clinton colluded with the Democratic Party in order to beat Crazy Bernie Sanders. Is she allowed to so collude? (25Jun)
The only thing dumber than tweets like this is the people who imagine Trump or Congress couldn't do anything to have the "collusion" investigated if there was anything to those accusations. Hell, they hate Obama and Clinton so much, I'm surprised they haven't investigated them anyhow.
posted by Rykey at 7:24 AM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hillary Clinton colluded with the Democratic Party in order to beat Crazy Bernie Sanders. Is she allowed to so collude? (25Jun)
The only thing dumber than tweets like this is the people who imagine Trump or Congress couldn't do anything to have the "collusion" investigated if there was anything to those accusations. Hell, they hate Obama and Clinton so much, I'm surprised they haven't investigated them anyhow.
posted by Rykey at 7:24 AM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
What surprises me is there is no unified talking point.
I expect things will congeal after they can gauge the reaction of the grassroots right to the different messages.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 7:25 AM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
I expect things will congeal after they can gauge the reaction of the grassroots right to the different messages.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 7:25 AM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
I don't understand why this idea that Obama dithered over Russian meddling has taken root. The hacks of the DNC and the supposition that Russia was behind them were public at least as far back as the conventions. The administration amped up its investigation, warned election local agencies to tighten computer security, and ramped up sanctions on Russia in retaliation.
What Obama didn't do is mouth off on twitter and put everyone in a panic.
posted by notyou at 7:27 AM on June 26, 2017 [45 favorites]
What Obama didn't do is mouth off on twitter and put everyone in a panic.
posted by notyou at 7:27 AM on June 26, 2017 [45 favorites]
@Jeff Nichols 1990 Roger Ailes ad for Sen. McConnell. Parents “almost went broke.” when Mitch had polio, so he fights for “decent, affordable health care” [twitter link goes to video]
VOX This chart shows the stunning trade-off at the heart of the GOP health plan
VOX This chart shows the stunning trade-off at the heart of the GOP health plan
The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities estimates that the 400 top income households alone would receive $33 billion in tax cuts between 2019 and 2028. This is equivalent to the amount that the federal government spends on Medicaid expansion in four states: Alaska, Arkansas, West Virginia, and Nevada. The Medicaid expansion there covers an estimated 725,800 enrollees.posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:27 AM on June 26, 2017 [50 favorites]
It’s hard to wrap your head around that disparity: 400 families gaining a tax cut that is offset by ending a program that covers three-quarters of a million of low-income Americans. Our graphics editor Javier Zarracina and I decided to show how those two groups compare visually. Start scrolling to see how many people win in this trade-off, and how many people lose.
Huh. More details from Wittes:
3 things:posted by pjenks at 7:27 AM on June 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
1) Not all ticks are related to Comey.
2) Fuse length remains uncertain.
3) Interesting preemptive defense of collusion happening.
David A. Lieb/Associated Press: Analysis indicates partisan gerrymandering has benefited GOP
The AP scrutinized the outcomes of all 435 U.S. House races and about 4,700 state House and Assembly seats up for election last year using a new statistical method of calculating partisan advantage. It's designed to detect cases in which one party may have won, widened or retained its grip on power through political gerrymandering.posted by ZeusHumms at 7:28 AM on June 26, 2017 [20 favorites]
The analysis found four times as many states with Republican-skewed state House or Assembly districts than Democratic ones. Among the two dozen most populated states that determine the vast majority of Congress, there were nearly three times as many with Republican-tilted U.S. House districts.
Traditional battlegrounds such as Michigan, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Florida and Virginia were among those with significant Republican advantages in their U.S. or state House races. All had districts drawn by Republicans after the last Census in 2010.
The AP analysis also found that Republicans won as many as 22 additional U.S. House seats over what would have been expected based on the average vote share in congressional districts across the country. That helped provide the GOP with a comfortable majority over Democrats instead of a narrow one.
“We don’t get taxes through, we’re all going home. Pack the bags.”
I'll believe that if I actually see it happen. I don't think I will though.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:28 AM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'll believe that if I actually see it happen. I don't think I will though.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:28 AM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
“We said for seven years you’re gonna repeal Obamacare. It’s nowhere near repealed.”
Hey, real talk, Dave Brat. Let me lay something on you: people had no idea what Obamacare even was because you people obfuscated the issue so badly. What people want is accessible healthcare for them and their families. What the racists who voted for you want is accessible healthcare for themselves and their families but not those people. "I want to go bankrupt due to cancer!" said no one ever. If you hadn't lied so shamelessly about what Obamacare is, no one would have elected you to repeal it.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:29 AM on June 26, 2017 [57 favorites]
Hey, real talk, Dave Brat. Let me lay something on you: people had no idea what Obamacare even was because you people obfuscated the issue so badly. What people want is accessible healthcare for them and their families. What the racists who voted for you want is accessible healthcare for themselves and their families but not those people. "I want to go bankrupt due to cancer!" said no one ever. If you hadn't lied so shamelessly about what Obamacare is, no one would have elected you to repeal it.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:29 AM on June 26, 2017 [57 favorites]
What surprises me is there is no unified talking point
I am surprised that this surprises you. From the Muslim ban/non-ban/you're the ban to the "repeal and replace but not really but that's mean!" - I haven't noticed anything approaching a unified talking point from these chuckleheads. Insofar as there's a strategy, which is debatable, it seems to be one of issuing no consistent statements from one day to the next.
posted by aspersioncast at 7:29 AM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
I am surprised that this surprises you. From the Muslim ban/non-ban/you're the ban to the "repeal and replace but not really but that's mean!" - I haven't noticed anything approaching a unified talking point from these chuckleheads. Insofar as there's a strategy, which is debatable, it seems to be one of issuing no consistent statements from one day to the next.
posted by aspersioncast at 7:29 AM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
No SCOTUS action on travel ban case today.
Correction! They granted cert in the case after reading today's opinions, rather than with the other orders this morning. From SCOTUSblog livefeed:
-We have action on the travel ban. "We grant the petitions for certiorari and grant the stay applications in part."
-"The clerk is directed to set a briefing schedule that will permit the cases to be heard during the first session of October Term 2017."
-"In addition to the issues identified in the petitions, the parties are directed to address the following questions: Whether the challenges to Section 2(c) became moot on June 14, 2017."
posted by melissasaurus at 7:31 AM on June 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
Correction! They granted cert in the case after reading today's opinions, rather than with the other orders this morning. From SCOTUSblog livefeed:
-We have action on the travel ban. "We grant the petitions for certiorari and grant the stay applications in part."
-"The clerk is directed to set a briefing schedule that will permit the cases to be heard during the first session of October Term 2017."
-"In addition to the issues identified in the petitions, the parties are directed to address the following questions: Whether the challenges to Section 2(c) became moot on June 14, 2017."
posted by melissasaurus at 7:31 AM on June 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
Insofar as there's a strategy, which is debatable, it seems to be one of issuing no consistent statements from one day to the next.
Noise is the strategy
posted by dng at 7:32 AM on June 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
Noise is the strategy
posted by dng at 7:32 AM on June 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
AP Trump eager for big meeting with Putin; some advisers wary
Many administration officials believe the U.S. needs to maintain its distance from Russia at such a sensitive time — and interact only with great caution.Think Progress Neil Gorsuch reveals his true anti-LGBTQ self
But Trump and some others within his administration have been pressing for a full bilateral meeting. He’s calling for media access and all the typical protocol associated with such sessions, even as officials within the State Department and National Security Council urge more restraint, according to a current and a former administration official.
Some advisers have recommended that the president instead do either a quick, informal “pull-aside” on the sidelines of the summit, or that the U.S. and Russian delegations hold “strategic stability talks,” which typically don’t involve the presidents. The officials spoke anonymously to discuss private policy discussions.
The Supreme Court took two actions Monday morning that provide a fairly clear window into how Gorsuch will handle claims alleging discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:35 AM on June 26, 2017 [21 favorites]
Noise is the strategy
This.
Samantha Bee explains what they're doing here. [Youtube]
Their enemy isn't Obama, or Hillary, or Comey. It's the english language, language generally, and the very concept of structured thought and meaning.
This is a preemptive DDOS attack on the word "collusion."
posted by dirge at 7:36 AM on June 26, 2017 [69 favorites]
This.
Samantha Bee explains what they're doing here. [Youtube]
Their enemy isn't Obama, or Hillary, or Comey. It's the english language, language generally, and the very concept of structured thought and meaning.
This is a preemptive DDOS attack on the word "collusion."
posted by dirge at 7:36 AM on June 26, 2017 [69 favorites]
“We don’t get taxes through, we’re all going home. Pack the bags.”
I'll believe that if I actually see it happen. I don't think I will though.
Me neither. These guys have been pretty good at vacillating between the three pillars of tax cuts, kill the commies/terrorists, and Jesus for the past 35 years as the situation calls for. If the tax cuts fail, they'll just revert to one of the other two pillars and carry on.
posted by Rykey at 7:36 AM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'll believe that if I actually see it happen. I don't think I will though.
Me neither. These guys have been pretty good at vacillating between the three pillars of tax cuts, kill the commies/terrorists, and Jesus for the past 35 years as the situation calls for. If the tax cuts fail, they'll just revert to one of the other two pillars and carry on.
posted by Rykey at 7:36 AM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Re the travel ban stay (excerpts of order from SCOTUSblog):
posted by melissasaurus at 7:36 AM on June 26, 2017 [9 favorites]
On the stay in part: "We grant the Government's applications to stay the injunctions" blocking the implementation of the ban "to the extent the injunctions prevent enforcement of Section 2(c)" -- the provision suspending entry from six countries -- "with respect to foreign nationals who lack any bona fide relationship with a person or entity in the United States."So it seems the injunction will stay in place as to most of the ban, but that the injunction is stayed for (ban will apply to) anyone who does not have a "bona fide relationship" with a US person or entity.
"We leave the injunctions entered by the lower courts in place with respect to respondents and those similarly situated."
posted by melissasaurus at 7:36 AM on June 26, 2017 [9 favorites]
I don't understand why this idea that Obama dithered over Russian meddling has taken root.
He could've made a statement personally to make it clear Russians were hacking on Trump's behalf, and should've after Comey's attack ad against Clinton. The public was getting skewed information from the Government against Clinton, while they were mostly silent about far worse dealings by the Trump campaign. Yes, there was the IC statement, but that never took hold and was discounted almost immediately. Obama should've made a statement. Instead he cowered when Mitch McConnell said 'boo'.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:37 AM on June 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
He could've made a statement personally to make it clear Russians were hacking on Trump's behalf, and should've after Comey's attack ad against Clinton. The public was getting skewed information from the Government against Clinton, while they were mostly silent about far worse dealings by the Trump campaign. Yes, there was the IC statement, but that never took hold and was discounted almost immediately. Obama should've made a statement. Instead he cowered when Mitch McConnell said 'boo'.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:37 AM on June 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
This is a preemptive DDOS attack on the word "collusion."
See also: "fake news." That was a useful term for about 5 seconds before they got a hold of it and made it meaningless.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:38 AM on June 26, 2017 [14 favorites]
See also: "fake news." That was a useful term for about 5 seconds before they got a hold of it and made it meaningless.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:38 AM on June 26, 2017 [14 favorites]
@KimberlyRobinsn:
posted by zombieflanders at 7:38 AM on June 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
SCOTUS per curiam in travel ban cases. Justices grant petitions and grant stay in part. SCOTUS says travel ban to be argued during its October sitting. SCOTUS reinstates much of the travel ban but doesn't allow gov't to enforce against plts and others with bona fide relationship with US. Thomas, Alito & Gorsuch would have reinstated the entire travel ban.Also, the combination of Gorsuch joining the dissent against the current LGBTQ case and SCOTUS taking up the homophobic bakery case makes me queasy.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:38 AM on June 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
Obama should've made a statement. Instead he cowered when Mitch McConnell said 'boo'.
I think we'd have all liked Obama to have somehow fixed this, but there's a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking going on here, and more than a little victim blaming. The guilty parties are Trump, McConnell, and Putin.
posted by dirge at 7:40 AM on June 26, 2017 [60 favorites]
I think we'd have all liked Obama to have somehow fixed this, but there's a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking going on here, and more than a little victim blaming. The guilty parties are Trump, McConnell, and Putin.
posted by dirge at 7:40 AM on June 26, 2017 [60 favorites]
@rickhasen: Here's what that "bona fide connection" to U.S. means in terms of the travel ban
@bradheath: But #SCOTUS says the travel ban cannot, for now, be applied to foreigners who can "credibly claim" a relationship with someone in the U.S.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:41 AM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
@bradheath: But #SCOTUS says the travel ban cannot, for now, be applied to foreigners who can "credibly claim" a relationship with someone in the U.S.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:41 AM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
He could've made a statement personally to make it clear Russians were hacking on Trump's behalf, and should've after Comey's attack ad against Clinton. The public was getting skewed information from the Government against Clinton, while they were mostly silent about far worse dealings by the Trump campaign.
One thing that makes me seethe with anger is that (from what I read months ago) Hillary called Obama to apologize when she lost. This news makes all of that even more rage-inducing.
posted by greermahoney at 7:44 AM on June 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
One thing that makes me seethe with anger is that (from what I read months ago) Hillary called Obama to apologize when she lost. This news makes all of that even more rage-inducing.
posted by greermahoney at 7:44 AM on June 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
See also: "fake news." That was a useful term for about 5 seconds before they got a hold of it and made it meaningless.
Maybe we could call the news networks and ask them to start including somebody from Merriam-Webster in their panel discussions, to help sift through these complex "words, do they mean stuff" debates that keep coming up.
posted by dirge at 7:45 AM on June 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
Maybe we could call the news networks and ask them to start including somebody from Merriam-Webster in their panel discussions, to help sift through these complex "words, do they mean stuff" debates that keep coming up.
posted by dirge at 7:45 AM on June 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
SCOTUS per curiam in travel ban cases. Justices grant petitions and grant stay in part. SCOTUS says travel ban to be argued during its October sitting. SCOTUS reinstates much of the travel ban but doesn't allow gov't to enforce against plts and others with bona fide relationship with US. Thomas, Alito & Gorsuch would have reinstated the entire travel ban.
So, I'm sorry, just to be clear - they're allowing at least parts of the travel ban to go forward pending their hearing of the case in October? Is that correct? What is posted here seem to say that people from the countries in question could be barred if they don't have a personal relationship with someone in the US. Am I reading this correctly?
posted by anastasiav at 7:50 AM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
So, I'm sorry, just to be clear - they're allowing at least parts of the travel ban to go forward pending their hearing of the case in October? Is that correct? What is posted here seem to say that people from the countries in question could be barred if they don't have a personal relationship with someone in the US. Am I reading this correctly?
posted by anastasiav at 7:50 AM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Who are you angry with about this?
Obama, again, this time for appointing Bipartisan GOP Daddy Figure and Clinton Witchhunter Extraordinaire James Comey in the first place. If there's ever another Democratic administration, let's hope they finally learned the fucking lesson, Republicans don't have a monopoly on the "serious" positions. Don't fucking appoint GOP partisans to SecDef, FBI, NSA, DOD. Democrats can do law enforcement and national security just fine, and your transparent attempts to be the most bipartisan who ever bi or partisaned will never be appreciated anyway. Just appoint a goddamn Democrat to everything. It's not hard.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:53 AM on June 26, 2017 [30 favorites]
Obama, again, this time for appointing Bipartisan GOP Daddy Figure and Clinton Witchhunter Extraordinaire James Comey in the first place. If there's ever another Democratic administration, let's hope they finally learned the fucking lesson, Republicans don't have a monopoly on the "serious" positions. Don't fucking appoint GOP partisans to SecDef, FBI, NSA, DOD. Democrats can do law enforcement and national security just fine, and your transparent attempts to be the most bipartisan who ever bi or partisaned will never be appreciated anyway. Just appoint a goddamn Democrat to everything. It's not hard.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:53 AM on June 26, 2017 [30 favorites]
"Republican" should be synonymous with hopelessly compromised at this point.
posted by Artw at 7:57 AM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:57 AM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
Huh. More details from Wittes:
And Wittes re-tweeted @matthewjsinger :
This is a preemptive DDOS attack on the word "collusion."
e.g. Sean Hannity tweeting noise like “Define 'collusion'. Like HRC colluded with the DNC to Rig the primary vs Bernie?” and “If a "Russian" had HRC e mails that she put on illegal server, and tried to destroy (felonies) is it collusion to want voters to see TRUTH?” and “Yes. They lied, cheated, colluded, fixed and rigged a primary. Finally! And if @JulianAssange says NOT Russia, maybe honest Dems leaked?” Once he's sufficiently mangled the term, this will move up Fox's media hierarchy to more "respectable" figures like Tucker Carlson ('People are asking what does collusion really mean?').
AP Trump eager for big meeting with Putin; some advisers wary
Trump's yearning for face time with Putin looks so shifty that even the Kremlin is playing it low key.
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:58 AM on June 26, 2017 [19 favorites]
And Wittes re-tweeted @matthewjsinger :
Re: #3. Fox has shifted to "collusion isn't illegal" rather than "it didn't happen." Trump now tweets "no tapes" rather than "no collusion."So, yeah, odds on for a collusion-related bombshell. (Incidentally, could the Washington Post's bunkerbuster about Obama and Russian influence wasn't at least partly have been intended by the IC leaking this information to establish once and for all in the national conversation that Putin wanted to help elect Trump?)
This is a preemptive DDOS attack on the word "collusion."
e.g. Sean Hannity tweeting noise like “Define 'collusion'. Like HRC colluded with the DNC to Rig the primary vs Bernie?” and “If a "Russian" had HRC e mails that she put on illegal server, and tried to destroy (felonies) is it collusion to want voters to see TRUTH?” and “Yes. They lied, cheated, colluded, fixed and rigged a primary. Finally! And if @JulianAssange says NOT Russia, maybe honest Dems leaked?” Once he's sufficiently mangled the term, this will move up Fox's media hierarchy to more "respectable" figures like Tucker Carlson ('People are asking what does collusion really mean?').
AP Trump eager for big meeting with Putin; some advisers wary
Trump's yearning for face time with Putin looks so shifty that even the Kremlin is playing it low key.
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:58 AM on June 26, 2017 [19 favorites]
So, I'm sorry, just to be clear - they're allowing at least parts of the travel ban to go forward pending their hearing of the case in October? Is that correct? What is posted here seem to say that people from the countries in question could be barred if they don't have a personal relationship with someone in the US. Am I reading this correctly?
Relationship with a US entity, not only person. If you had a job offer or a place in a university, its OK for now.
posted by shothotbot at 8:09 AM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Relationship with a US entity, not only person. If you had a job offer or a place in a university, its OK for now.
posted by shothotbot at 8:09 AM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
god, what a bunch of bullshit - it is not a crime to collude with people in your own political party if the purpose is legal - my god, is trump really so ignorant of the history of BOTH parties' collusion with certain factions and people through the last century?
it's part of politics - sometimes it's bad, but it's still part of it - (i'm going to pass over the collusion of clinton with the dems in silence)
the question isn't that of collusion - it's who you choose to collude with - your own party? - well, that's how things happen - a foreign country? - that's where things get very dubious and possibly illegal
we are fast becoming a country of lies
posted by pyramid termite at 8:09 AM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
it's part of politics - sometimes it's bad, but it's still part of it - (i'm going to pass over the collusion of clinton with the dems in silence)
the question isn't that of collusion - it's who you choose to collude with - your own party? - well, that's how things happen - a foreign country? - that's where things get very dubious and possibly illegal
we are fast becoming a country of lies
posted by pyramid termite at 8:09 AM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Sean Hannity tweeting noise like “Define 'collusion'.
In 2024 Putin himself will run and Sean Hannity and the republican party will argue that the phrase natural born American was never in the constitution and even if what was was does natural born mean and anyway aren't all births natural and does someone really need to have lived here to be an American surely its about values and no-one does true American values like Vladimir Putin I mean look how much he showed he cared about America in 2016 when he exposed Hillary's crooked ways Alaska used to be Russian don't you know and doesn't he look American not like Kamala Harris what sort of name is Kamala anyway how the hell is that American it doesn't sound American to me.
posted by dng at 8:09 AM on June 26, 2017 [33 favorites]
In 2024 Putin himself will run and Sean Hannity and the republican party will argue that the phrase natural born American was never in the constitution and even if what was was does natural born mean and anyway aren't all births natural and does someone really need to have lived here to be an American surely its about values and no-one does true American values like Vladimir Putin I mean look how much he showed he cared about America in 2016 when he exposed Hillary's crooked ways Alaska used to be Russian don't you know and doesn't he look American not like Kamala Harris what sort of name is Kamala anyway how the hell is that American it doesn't sound American to me.
posted by dng at 8:09 AM on June 26, 2017 [33 favorites]
Scott Lemieux, New Republic: How the Supreme Court Screwed Obamacare
John Roberts received a lot of praise from liberals for casting the swing vote in 2012 to mostly uphold the Affordable Care Act. But his decision in the case NFIB v. Sebelius to ham-handedly re-write the ACA’s Medicaid expansion denied a lot of people health insurance, made the Republican demolition of Medicaid more likely, and ensured that the death and suffering caused by TrumpCare will be harder, perhaps impossible, to fix. [...]posted by tonycpsu at 8:09 AM on June 26, 2017 [48 favorites]
The direct consequences of the decision were bad enough. Nineteen states still haven’t taken the Medicaid expansion, with the result that millions of poor, disabled, and/or elderly people are being denied insurance. But the indirect effects have also been very bad. The utter decimation of Medicaid is at the core of TrumpCare (it is even worse in the Senate version than in the House one). This would have been a lot harder to pull off if those 19 holdouts—all of them Republican-controlled—had taken the expansion money.
A new study shows that when a state took the Medicaid expansion, its residents became more likely to support the ACA. It would be more difficult to wreck Medicaid if more Republican voters had benefitted from the expansion. As the policy analyst Sean McElwee acidly put it, “The Republican Party’s strategic choice to brutalize their own voters by denying them health care basically worked.”
Who are you angry with about this?
Mainly the patriarchy.
posted by greermahoney at 8:10 AM on June 26, 2017 [23 favorites]
Mainly the patriarchy.
posted by greermahoney at 8:10 AM on June 26, 2017 [23 favorites]
IVANKA SPEAKS -- Asked about her father’s tweets: “I try to stay out of politics.
She's a senior presidential advisor with her own White House office and government paid staff. This is complicity while denying responsibility.
posted by JackFlash at 8:12 AM on June 26, 2017 [72 favorites]
She's a senior presidential advisor with her own White House office and government paid staff. This is complicity while denying responsibility.
posted by JackFlash at 8:12 AM on June 26, 2017 [72 favorites]
One of the most appalling things about the whole situation is that the President of the United States can refer in public to a former First Lady, Senator and Secretary of State as "crooked" and that's not the biggest outrage.
The problem is that it will be true going forward (at least as far as the President). And I pray that we don't get more, "let bygones be bygones," once sanity is restored to the White House. The current state of things needs to be exposed to sunlight, not left to fester.
posted by Candleman at 8:14 AM on June 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
The problem is that it will be true going forward (at least as far as the President). And I pray that we don't get more, "let bygones be bygones," once sanity is restored to the White House. The current state of things needs to be exposed to sunlight, not left to fester.
posted by Candleman at 8:14 AM on June 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
dng, you're a little too good at that.
posted by orrnyereg at 8:21 AM on June 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by orrnyereg at 8:21 AM on June 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
Especially all the typos
posted by dng at 8:23 AM on June 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by dng at 8:23 AM on June 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
And I pray that we don't get more, "let bygones be bygones," once sanity is restored to the White House. The current state of things needs to be exposed to sunlight, not left to fester.
Republicans like to talk about how they revere the Constitution. They should remember that treason is the only crime that document specifically defines.
posted by Gelatin at 8:37 AM on June 26, 2017 [25 favorites]
Republicans like to talk about how they revere the Constitution. They should remember that treason is the only crime that document specifically defines.
posted by Gelatin at 8:37 AM on June 26, 2017 [25 favorites]
“The Republican Party’s strategic choice to brutalize their own voters by denying them health care basically worked.”
This was the reasoning behind Nancy Pelosi's often misquoted statement: "We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy."
Unfortunately, even though the ACA passed, the Supreme Court crippled Medicaid so that much of the public never got the chance to see it in action. The Republican strategy of sabotage worked.
The Democratic position has always been that if the public can only see good government in action, they will want more of it. Republicans are just the opposite. They want to show how bad government can be so they can destroy it.
posted by JackFlash at 8:44 AM on June 26, 2017 [22 favorites]
This was the reasoning behind Nancy Pelosi's often misquoted statement: "We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy."
Unfortunately, even though the ACA passed, the Supreme Court crippled Medicaid so that much of the public never got the chance to see it in action. The Republican strategy of sabotage worked.
The Democratic position has always been that if the public can only see good government in action, they will want more of it. Republicans are just the opposite. They want to show how bad government can be so they can destroy it.
posted by JackFlash at 8:44 AM on June 26, 2017 [22 favorites]
Dara Lind/Vox: Donald Trump’s travel ban is about to go into effect "The Supreme Court lifts a block on the executive order, banning many tourists from 6 majority-Muslim countries — and some refugees — from entering the US over the summer."
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:45 AM on June 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
Sort of.Sigh.
The Supreme Court ruled Monday that despite rulings in two different federal courts that the ban should be put on hold while judges decide whether it’s constitutional, the Trump administration should be allowed to enforce the ban starting on Thursday, June 29 (72 hours after the court’s ruling was issued).
But the Court’s ruling only lets the Trump administration ban certain people. Anyone with a “bona fide relationship” with a person or organization in America will be allowed to enter, as will anyone who already has a valid visa to enter the US.
The Supreme Court offered some guidance about who will be allowed to enter under its modified ban. But there are still big questions about how the administration will implement it — especially when it comes to refugees.
The Court will hear the lawsuits against the ban in the fall. But the legal fight has suddenly turned anticlimactic. For the first time since February, the Trump administration’s signature immigration policy is going to shape people’s lives.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:45 AM on June 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
Anyone with a “bona fide relationship” with a person or organization in America will be allowed to enter, as will anyone who already has a valid visa to enter the US.
So the Supreme Court has decided that the US government's current vetting standards are good enough to weed out the bad guys from these countries, but also that the US government needs to pause letting in people from these countries because... why?
posted by Etrigan at 8:48 AM on June 26, 2017 [29 favorites]
So the Supreme Court has decided that the US government's current vetting standards are good enough to weed out the bad guys from these countries, but also that the US government needs to pause letting in people from these countries because... why?
posted by Etrigan at 8:48 AM on June 26, 2017 [29 favorites]
The current state of things needs to be exposed to sunlight, not left to fester.
I'm not even sure that sunlight is going to help; the spin machines are busy taking the few things that are emerging into the sunlight and telling people that they aren't what they think they are.
It might just be that it's Monday; it might be that my hay fever feels more like its becoming a full on summer cold this morning; it might just be that I'm tired. But it feels like nothing matters anymore and they are no consequences or or weight to anything the powerful are doing, except for what those actions do to the powerless.
posted by nubs at 8:49 AM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm not even sure that sunlight is going to help; the spin machines are busy taking the few things that are emerging into the sunlight and telling people that they aren't what they think they are.
It might just be that it's Monday; it might be that my hay fever feels more like its becoming a full on summer cold this morning; it might just be that I'm tired. But it feels like nothing matters anymore and they are no consequences or or weight to anything the powerful are doing, except for what those actions do to the powerless.
posted by nubs at 8:49 AM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
So the Supreme Court has decided that the US government's current vetting standards are good enough to weed out the bad guys from these countries, but also that the US government needs to pause letting in people from these countries because... why?
Because with Gorsuch, the Trump supporters in the Supreme Court are now in the majority.
posted by sour cream at 9:03 AM on June 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
Because with Gorsuch, the Trump supporters in the Supreme Court are now in the majority.
posted by sour cream at 9:03 AM on June 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
So the Supreme Court has decided that the US government's current vetting standards are good enough to weed out the bad guys from these countries, but also that the US government needs to pause letting in people from these countries because... why?
Stare Decisis. When it comes down to it it's precedent in this country that when anyone in the system wants to be a racist fuck and the system coincidentally turns out to be racist it's not actually racist unless you have the people perpetrating it using racial epithets on tape in conjunction with how you want to be racist.
I say using racial epithets because you can publicly call for a complete skullfucking of the 14th amendment and the highest judiciary will still let you get away with it.
posted by Talez at 9:06 AM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
Stare Decisis. When it comes down to it it's precedent in this country that when anyone in the system wants to be a racist fuck and the system coincidentally turns out to be racist it's not actually racist unless you have the people perpetrating it using racial epithets on tape in conjunction with how you want to be racist.
I say using racial epithets because you can publicly call for a complete skullfucking of the 14th amendment and the highest judiciary will still let you get away with it.
posted by Talez at 9:06 AM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
Jesse Hicks/Vice: Mitch McConnell Refused to Meet With Group [March of Dimes] That Funded His Polio Recovery
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:31 AM on June 26, 2017 [49 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:31 AM on June 26, 2017 [49 favorites]
Masha Gessen is smart, but our institutions are ours. They are as strong or as weak as we make them.
I like Timothy Snyder's advice better.
Chapter 2. Defend Institutions.
One thing that comes to mind: crowd source the kind of research the lawyers arguing these cases are going to need to do -- find precedents that support their arguments, and publicize them widely. Insure that everyone knows what the Constitution and precedent actually say about this, so that if the Supreme Court decides to ignore that, people will understand what kind of line is being crossed.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:33 AM on June 26, 2017 [23 favorites]
I like Timothy Snyder's advice better.
Chapter 2. Defend Institutions.
It is institutions that help us to preserve democracy. They need our help as well. Do not speak of "our instiutions" unless you make them yours by acting on their behalf. Institutions do not protect themselves. They fall one after the other unless each is defended from the beginning. So choose an institution you care about -- a court, a newspaper, a law, a labor union -- and take its side.How can we defend the institution of the Supreme Court at this moment? Well, I guess really what we want to defend is the Constitution...
One thing that comes to mind: crowd source the kind of research the lawyers arguing these cases are going to need to do -- find precedents that support their arguments, and publicize them widely. Insure that everyone knows what the Constitution and precedent actually say about this, so that if the Supreme Court decides to ignore that, people will understand what kind of line is being crossed.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:33 AM on June 26, 2017 [23 favorites]
Another thing you can do, of course, is support the ACLU.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:39 AM on June 26, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:39 AM on June 26, 2017 [16 favorites]
TPM's Josh Marshall with The Latest On O’Care Repeal:
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:39 AM on June 26, 2017 [24 favorites]
First, I think McConnell will be able to pass this bill. But I am considerably less sure about that than I was even late last week. They are having more trouble than I expected them to be having. So for people spending all their time making phone calls and pulling out all the stops, it’s working. I think it’s still an uphill fight. But it is clearly having an effect. And these things are cumulative. The less certain a McConnell win is, the less power he has to make it happen. The aura of inevitability is his greatest asset. [...]We absolutely must keep the pressure up by hammering Murkowski, Heller, Collins, Johnson, and Cassidy non-stop until they break and kill the bill. They are looking to support the bill, but if enough super pissed off constituents call, write, and fax, they will see that it not in their interest to support a bill crafted with a depraved indifference to human life at its core.
We should take it as a given that every senator in the GOP caucus who is expressing hesitation is playing for time, positioning, looking for a way to get to Yes, probably with minor changes to the bill. In this case, getting to Yes means either voting yes or in two cases voting no with McConnell’s permission. (McConnell can let two senators do that and still pass the bill.) So each is playing for time and hoping to get to Yes but on a more fundamental level each is looking at the pros and cons for themselves. With sufficient pressure, enough senators will cave to kill this bill. But that pressure will have to be massive because the pressure on the other side is titanic, vast.
The key in my mind is that legislative battles come down to the fact that there is safety in numbers. No one wants to face the storm of public opinion alone. The caucus as a group can withstand it. But if the pressure is focused on the individual weak links it can be too much for an individual senator to manage. So no one in any of these three groups wants to be the first to commit. They want others to go first. No one wants to commit to a tough vote only to see the whole thing go down in flames. The key for opponents is to make the pressure – focused on individual senators – too much for any individually to take the plunge. Since no one will go first, the whole thing comes undone.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:39 AM on June 26, 2017 [24 favorites]
The only thing dumber than tweets like this is the people who imagine Trump or Congress couldn't do anything to have the "collusion" investigated
Tweets like these™ are what astonishes me about the 37% of people who treat this guy like a "normal" president. Oh he's going to do this and that, and he's always felt that blahblahblah, and he wouldn't allow X because . . .
Good god, the man can barely communicate at all, much less coherently. If that insane NATO shove wasn't a window to his degenerate mind I'm expecting we'll get much worse and soon from him. LITERALLY SOCIOPATHIC. NOT NORMAL. If only there were some kind of mass communications capability to help us save ourselves instead of eating fresh during the Toyotathon.
posted by petebest at 9:39 AM on June 26, 2017 [13 favorites]
Tweets like these™ are what astonishes me about the 37% of people who treat this guy like a "normal" president. Oh he's going to do this and that, and he's always felt that blahblahblah, and he wouldn't allow X because . . .
Good god, the man can barely communicate at all, much less coherently. If that insane NATO shove wasn't a window to his degenerate mind I'm expecting we'll get much worse and soon from him. LITERALLY SOCIOPATHIC. NOT NORMAL. If only there were some kind of mass communications capability to help us save ourselves instead of eating fresh during the Toyotathon.
posted by petebest at 9:39 AM on June 26, 2017 [13 favorites]
One thing that comes to mind: crowd source the kind of research the lawyers arguing these cases are going to need to do -- find precedents that support their arguments, and publicize them widely. Insure that everyone knows what the Constitution and precedent actually say about this, so that if the Supreme Court decides to ignore that, people will understand what kind of line is being crossed.
One question that I think should be raised from now until the fall hearing: The EO was for 90 days to allow for the review of information that must be provided by certain countries that do not meet US adjudication standards under immigration law. There are certainly going to be more than 90 days between now and the SC hearing and the SC today also allowed for partial enforcement of the ban, presumably so this review work can proceed. Why will the order still be necessary in October? Shouldn't it be moot by then?
posted by nubs at 9:49 AM on June 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
One question that I think should be raised from now until the fall hearing: The EO was for 90 days to allow for the review of information that must be provided by certain countries that do not meet US adjudication standards under immigration law. There are certainly going to be more than 90 days between now and the SC hearing and the SC today also allowed for partial enforcement of the ban, presumably so this review work can proceed. Why will the order still be necessary in October? Shouldn't it be moot by then?
posted by nubs at 9:49 AM on June 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
Shouldn't it be moot by then?
Trump modified it to provide that the 90 days is tolled while the injunction is in effect. But SCOTUS has asked the parties to brief on the issue.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:53 AM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
Trump modified it to provide that the 90 days is tolled while the injunction is in effect. But SCOTUS has asked the parties to brief on the issue.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:53 AM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
Overly optimistic take: Supreme court stayed the injunction so that when the admin has nothing to show after 90 days it'll be easier to smack it down and say the admin was full of shit.
posted by TwoWordReview at 10:00 AM on June 26, 2017
posted by TwoWordReview at 10:00 AM on June 26, 2017
Gorsuch on the Court will pay evil dividends for Republicans for 50 years. Even as much as the Trump presidency could kill us all, the real prize was always them stealing that seat. Kennedy is not and has never been our friend, he's a Trumpist that occasionally has an attack of conscious, once a decade or so. And if he does retire, SCOTUS will be another arm of Brietbart.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:03 AM on June 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:03 AM on June 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
Why has no one ever recorded this abusive asshole occupying the Oval Office during one of his wild furious tirades? He's apparently done this sort of thing for decades, but no one has ever thought to record one and dump it?
Similarly, I was hoping one of the primary or presidential debates that someone--anyone--was going to push him to lose his shit in public--maybe straight up saying he's not a billionaire because he wouldn't release his taxes or even just saying "Shut the fuck up Donny, you're out of your element".
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:07 AM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
Similarly, I was hoping one of the primary or presidential debates that someone--anyone--was going to push him to lose his shit in public--maybe straight up saying he's not a billionaire because he wouldn't release his taxes or even just saying "Shut the fuck up Donny, you're out of your element".
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:07 AM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
Why has no one ever recorded this abusive asshole occupying the Oval Office during one of his wild furious tirades? He's apparently done this sort of thing for decades, but no one has ever thought to record one and dump it?
He was recorded admitting to sexual assault. There is literally nothing that will get 90 percent of Republicans to decry him any harder than, "Well, it's not optimal, but...".
posted by Etrigan at 10:09 AM on June 26, 2017 [16 favorites]
He was recorded admitting to sexual assault. There is literally nothing that will get 90 percent of Republicans to decry him any harder than, "Well, it's not optimal, but...".
posted by Etrigan at 10:09 AM on June 26, 2017 [16 favorites]
Since this is the second time he's called himself "T" on twitter, it has to be said: I pity the fool.
Personally, it reminds me of T the Great.
posted by aws17576 at 10:11 AM on June 26, 2017
Personally, it reminds me of T the Great.
posted by aws17576 at 10:11 AM on June 26, 2017
New version [pdf] of BCRA is up online - main change is on pg 135, the addition of the "continuous care provision" (i.e., you're prohibited from buying insurance on the individual market for 6 months unless you can demonstrate 12 months of uninterrupted creditable coverage)
posted by melissasaurus at 10:11 AM on June 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 10:11 AM on June 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
That six month prohibition -- that's not much of a tool to encourage folks who aren't insured to get insurance. But it sure protects insurers from people who decide to sign up when they get sick.
posted by notyou at 10:17 AM on June 26, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by notyou at 10:17 AM on June 26, 2017 [21 favorites]
Here's a redline (via Sarah Kliff) showing the changes in the Senate bill.
posted by zachlipton at 10:21 AM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 10:21 AM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
People complain about the BCRA being too cruel, so they make it crueler.
These goddamn assholes.
posted by joyceanmachine at 10:23 AM on June 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
These goddamn assholes.
posted by joyceanmachine at 10:23 AM on June 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
David Anderson, Balloon Juice: Medicaid and the private market
Avik Roy on how he sees the Senate bill in a Vox interview:posted by tonycpsu at 10:24 AM on June 26, 2017 [18 favorites]There’s been a lot of commentary on the left about how this bill allegedly erodes the safety net. It does no such thing. It replaces the Medicaid expansion under Obamacare with tax credits to buy individually purchased insurance.His point is that people who make under 133% FPL can buy a 58% Actuarial Value (AV) plan for between 2.0% and 2.5% of income. Voila, it is the same.
REALLY! [...]
Under the most favorable reading to Roy, he is advocating $2,000 or more individual deductibles for people currently on Medicaid expansion. We know from the Rand Health Insurance Experiment that there is a significant population who has worse health outcomes when their care is subject to light cost sharing (hint, $2,000 or 12% or more of single individual income is heavy cost sharing). And that population is people with low incomes**.
So there is not just a difference in degree but in kind between Medicaid and Silver CSR cost sharing and his preferred cost sharing levels for people with low incomes. That difference is sufficient to say that Medicaid as we know it is destroyed in concept and execution under the Senate bill for the Expansion population.
The continuous care provision is even weaker than the House version. There is no cost penalty for not buying insurance. You just have to wait 6 months to purchase your plan.
This will increase the instability of insurance markets and also increase premiums for those remaining in the market. Healthy people will just avoid buying insurance until they become older or sicker and insurers will have to accept them. Those remaining in the insurance pool will be the more expensive people, which increases premium cost. This is the free-rider problem that the ACA mandate was designed to reduce.
posted by JackFlash at 10:24 AM on June 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
This will increase the instability of insurance markets and also increase premiums for those remaining in the market. Healthy people will just avoid buying insurance until they become older or sicker and insurers will have to accept them. Those remaining in the insurance pool will be the more expensive people, which increases premium cost. This is the free-rider problem that the ACA mandate was designed to reduce.
posted by JackFlash at 10:24 AM on June 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
So if you lost your job and insurance, and therefore "cannot demonstrate 12 months of continuous creditable coverage" then you can still enroll for insurance, but "coverage under the plan begins on the day that is 6 months after the date on which the individual submits an application for health insurance coverage" (or at the beginning of the next plan year if that's more than 6 months away.)
So... Are you supposed to be paying premiums during that whole six months during which you don't have actual coverage, after you have submitted an application?
If the language is ambiguous, as it seems to me in a cursory reading, is there anything stopping insurance companies from settling on the former interpretation?
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:28 AM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
So... Are you supposed to be paying premiums during that whole six months during which you don't have actual coverage, after you have submitted an application?
If the language is ambiguous, as it seems to me in a cursory reading, is there anything stopping insurance companies from settling on the former interpretation?
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:28 AM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
He was recorded admitting to sexual assault. There is literally nothing that will get 90 percent of Republicans to decry him any harder than, "Well, it's not optimal, but...".
Much as it pisses me off that far too many people don't understand that he was describing sexual assault, most people do know exactly what an angry, incoherent tirade looks like and that it is not normal to act that way, especially for an adult. Many many people have witnessed someone throw a temper-tantrum--an overbearing family member, an awful manager, a small child... If, as an adult, you can dish it out, but throw a shit-fit when someone dishes it back, you are the one who looks like a tool.
At least, I think people recognize such behavior as abnormal and concerning..maybe that's a mistake on my part.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:28 AM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
Much as it pisses me off that far too many people don't understand that he was describing sexual assault, most people do know exactly what an angry, incoherent tirade looks like and that it is not normal to act that way, especially for an adult. Many many people have witnessed someone throw a temper-tantrum--an overbearing family member, an awful manager, a small child... If, as an adult, you can dish it out, but throw a shit-fit when someone dishes it back, you are the one who looks like a tool.
At least, I think people recognize such behavior as abnormal and concerning..maybe that's a mistake on my part.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:28 AM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
This will increase the instability of insurance markets and also increase premiums for those remaining in the market.
And also increase costs, as people who buy insurance when they become sick or injured will have six months of the illness or injury's affects to deal with before they can afford treatment (or they'll pay the full [artificial] price, which is probably the same difference).
This is the free-rider problem that the ACA mandate was designed to reduce.
But freedom!, according to the bill's Republican proponent that NPR interviewed the other day [real; he said that eliminating the mandate therefore increased freedom. No, the NPR interviewer didn't press the point.]
posted by Gelatin at 10:29 AM on June 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
And also increase costs, as people who buy insurance when they become sick or injured will have six months of the illness or injury's affects to deal with before they can afford treatment (or they'll pay the full [artificial] price, which is probably the same difference).
This is the free-rider problem that the ACA mandate was designed to reduce.
But freedom!, according to the bill's Republican proponent that NPR interviewed the other day [real; he said that eliminating the mandate therefore increased freedom. No, the NPR interviewer didn't press the point.]
posted by Gelatin at 10:29 AM on June 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
The AMA has come out against the bill, arguing that it violates the "do no harm" standard.
posted by tau_ceti at 10:29 AM on June 26, 2017 [82 favorites]
posted by tau_ceti at 10:29 AM on June 26, 2017 [82 favorites]
So as I read the bill, it's even worse than I thought. If you don't have 12 months of continuous coverage and you enroll during open enrollment or a special enrollment period (special enrollment periods are for things like you just lost your job or moved and have to change insurers or you got married or you just got our of prison), you have to wait six months. But if you don't have continuous coverage and you enroll outside of open enrollment or a special enrollment period (i.e. you just don't have insurance and decide you want/need it), your plan doesn't start until the latter of six months or January 1. So if you get sick in September, the ACA allowed you to enroll for a plan that started January 1, but this won't cover you until March. This also really screws over people who qualify for special enrollment periods; if you move back to the US from abroad, you get your special enrollment period to sign up, but you still have to wait six months.
The only exception is for newborns and adoptees.
posted by zachlipton at 10:36 AM on June 26, 2017 [12 favorites]
The only exception is for newborns and adoptees.
posted by zachlipton at 10:36 AM on June 26, 2017 [12 favorites]
The GOP doesn't seem to realize that they're actively applying their "claim the government doesn't work and get elected to prove it" tactic to health insurance - they're going to tank the insurance markets so hard with this that single payer will be the only sane response (with a whole lot of suffering between now and then). All those out of control price increases the ACA slowed down will be back worse than before, fewer people will buy insurance without the mandate (drastically fewer as prices go up), it's even looking like employer plans will suffer... but hey, I'm sure tax breaks for a few rich folks will be just the thing to stabilize the economy when the entire healthcare sector explodes into a dumpster fire.
posted by jason_steakums at 10:49 AM on June 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 10:49 AM on June 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
Being aware that a significant portion of humanity has garbage for an animus/soul is something that never really gets any easier.
This is totally a derail, but I'm not letting this sort of cynicism pass without comment. With love, I declare it patently untrue, and respectfully insist that the premise begs refutation. Loving those with garbage souls and others who aren't easy to love does get easier with practice. But you have to practice it.
posted by carsonb at 10:53 AM on June 26, 2017 [18 favorites]
This is totally a derail, but I'm not letting this sort of cynicism pass without comment. With love, I declare it patently untrue, and respectfully insist that the premise begs refutation. Loving those with garbage souls and others who aren't easy to love does get easier with practice. But you have to practice it.
posted by carsonb at 10:53 AM on June 26, 2017 [18 favorites]
I wanna share my favorite "What should the Democratic party's messaging strategy be" piece so far, by Doug Muder at the Weekly Sift, before I forget...
Turn the Page
Turn the Page
After nearly 40 years, American political discourse still takes place in the rhetorical universe created by Ronald Reagan. Our world is still haunted by the ghosts of Cadillac-driving welfare queens, job-killing regulations, initiative-crushing taxes, and poor people whose will to succeed has been sapped away by their dependence on government. The heroic entrepreneur still fights his eternal battle against the villainous bureaucrat. Private-sector spending on Mar-a-lago memberships and gas-guzzling jet-skis and AK-47s is productive, while public-sector spending on parks and roads and libraries is wasteful. A private-school teacher is a hard-working professional, while a public-school teacher is a blood-sucking parasite.posted by OnceUponATime at 10:54 AM on June 26, 2017 [42 favorites]
...
The 2018 campaign needs to be negative, but not personal. You can propose Medicare-for-everyone into this environment if you want, and if you can manage to control the narrative well enough to keep everyone calling it that — even after you get outspent 5-1 or 10-1 — you’ll probably win. But if instead your proposal gets transmuted into a bureaucracy-bloating, tax-increasing, debt-busting, big-government takeover of the economy, you’ll probably lose.
Democrats can’t shy away from conservative rhetoric, and we can’t hope that it will just slip people’s minds if we change the subject by presenting our own solutions. We have to confront it directly: We’ve been living in a conservative era for nearly 40 years, and that is what has destroyed the middle class.
but hey, I'm sure tax breaks for a few rich folks will be just the thing to stabilize the economy when the entire healthcare sector explodes into a dumpster fire
Those tax breaks, and then some, will also be the perfect place for Democrats to go in order to fund their Medicare-for-all proposal.
Republicans seem to be banking hard on their own voters associating any health insurance woes with Obamacare forever and ever, but I doubt they're right about that (and hope they aren't). Either that, or they know darn well they don't really have a majority coalition -- obviously, because they aren't governing as if they did -- and so are trying to lock in as many benefits for the wealthy as they can while they can.
posted by Gelatin at 10:54 AM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Those tax breaks, and then some, will also be the perfect place for Democrats to go in order to fund their Medicare-for-all proposal.
Republicans seem to be banking hard on their own voters associating any health insurance woes with Obamacare forever and ever, but I doubt they're right about that (and hope they aren't). Either that, or they know darn well they don't really have a majority coalition -- obviously, because they aren't governing as if they did -- and so are trying to lock in as many benefits for the wealthy as they can while they can.
posted by Gelatin at 10:54 AM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
With love, I declare it patently untrue, and respectfully insist that the premise begs refutation. Loving those with garbage souls and others who aren't easy to love does get easier with practice. But you have to practice it.
carsonb - I aspire to be the mensch that you seem to be.
posted by Sophie1 at 10:56 AM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
carsonb - I aspire to be the mensch that you seem to be.
posted by Sophie1 at 10:56 AM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
If you have to wait six months when you change jobs for your insurance to cover you then if we had a functioning media that should kill it dead.
Even the most punitive place I've ever worked only made you wait three months before you were covered and yes you were paying premiums that whole time.
posted by winna at 10:57 AM on June 26, 2017 [12 favorites]
Even the most punitive place I've ever worked only made you wait three months before you were covered and yes you were paying premiums that whole time.
posted by winna at 10:57 AM on June 26, 2017 [12 favorites]
I think people recognize such behavior as abnormal and concerning.
Agreed. Pussygate was different in that the tone of his voice was low and controlled. A screaming babbley rant would ping different emotional registers. And be impossible to shrug off except in the most "meh whatever" kind of way that doesn't attract viewers.
posted by petebest at 10:58 AM on June 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
Agreed. Pussygate was different in that the tone of his voice was low and controlled. A screaming babbley rant would ping different emotional registers. And be impossible to shrug off except in the most "meh whatever" kind of way that doesn't attract viewers.
posted by petebest at 10:58 AM on June 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
T.D. Strange We absolutely must impeach Gorsuch if even slightly possible. The theft of the Supreme Court cannot be allowed to stand, to reward the R's for stealing Garland's seat, to permit the sheer evil of their declaration that Obama's last year in office just plain didn't count to go unpunished, would destroy the nation.
posted by sotonohito at 11:04 AM on June 26, 2017 [37 favorites]
posted by sotonohito at 11:04 AM on June 26, 2017 [37 favorites]
If you have to wait six months when you change jobs for your insurance to cover you then if we had a functioning media that should kill it dead.
Even the most punitive place I've ever worked only made you wait three months before you were covered and yes you were paying premiums that whole time.
So if one were a tv reporter switching stations or networks, this would be the same, right? Even with non-compete clauses kicking in?
posted by ZeusHumms at 11:04 AM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Even the most punitive place I've ever worked only made you wait three months before you were covered and yes you were paying premiums that whole time.
So if one were a tv reporter switching stations or networks, this would be the same, right? Even with non-compete clauses kicking in?
posted by ZeusHumms at 11:04 AM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
We have to confront it directly: We’ve been living in a conservative era for nearly 40 years, and that is what has destroyed the middle class.
"Sub-prime conservative" does have a nice ring to it!
posted by TwoWordReview at 11:09 AM on June 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
"Sub-prime conservative" does have a nice ring to it!
posted by TwoWordReview at 11:09 AM on June 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
How long do we play by civilized rules before we realize they never will?
posted by yoga at 11:15 AM on June 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by yoga at 11:15 AM on June 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
And be impossible to shrug off except in the most "meh whatever" kind of way that doesn't attract viewers.
The "Surely this..." idea has been disproven, to my mind. There were so many things that were "impossible to shrug off", and yet, people did so, because they felt it was in their self-interest to have Trump in the White House.
posted by Etrigan at 11:17 AM on June 26, 2017 [12 favorites]
The "Surely this..." idea has been disproven, to my mind. There were so many things that were "impossible to shrug off", and yet, people did so, because they felt it was in their self-interest to have Trump in the White House.
posted by Etrigan at 11:17 AM on June 26, 2017 [12 favorites]
> How long do we play by civilized rules before we realize they never will?
thought 1: No one wrestling for real power has ever played by "civilized" rules.
thought 2: What we define as "civilized" rules are pure mystification; a trick to keep us focused on the form of political activity while ignoring the real content.
If you're focused on the form of political activity, you end up asking questions like "how can we establish a set of rules that provide a formal process for resolving political disputes?" This is nonsense, of course: formal processes can't ensure either that people follow those processes or that just outcomes prevail. Even formal rules backed by established bureaucratic processes can't do it; this is what "your institutions will not save you" means.
When you turn instead to the content, you get to ask much more fruitful questions, like "how do we get resources to people who need them?" and "how do we empower oppressed people to defend themselves against their oppressors?" The answers to these questions won't be a set of abstract formal processes that adjudicate over political disputes, but instead a set of concrete material interventions that could lead to the establishment of real civilization. Things like "tax the rich to pay for healthcare for all" and "raise the minimum wage to a living wage" and "enforce laws against wage theft" and "establish a 100% inheritance tax" and "provide free breakfasts in oppressed communities" and "provide material support for community-based self defense organizations" and "disarm police forces, with an eye toward disbanding them" and "seize productive industries and place them under democratic control."
so yeah. "civilized" rules are always already garbage. let's show them what real civilization looks like.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:34 AM on June 26, 2017 [41 favorites]
thought 1: No one wrestling for real power has ever played by "civilized" rules.
thought 2: What we define as "civilized" rules are pure mystification; a trick to keep us focused on the form of political activity while ignoring the real content.
If you're focused on the form of political activity, you end up asking questions like "how can we establish a set of rules that provide a formal process for resolving political disputes?" This is nonsense, of course: formal processes can't ensure either that people follow those processes or that just outcomes prevail. Even formal rules backed by established bureaucratic processes can't do it; this is what "your institutions will not save you" means.
When you turn instead to the content, you get to ask much more fruitful questions, like "how do we get resources to people who need them?" and "how do we empower oppressed people to defend themselves against their oppressors?" The answers to these questions won't be a set of abstract formal processes that adjudicate over political disputes, but instead a set of concrete material interventions that could lead to the establishment of real civilization. Things like "tax the rich to pay for healthcare for all" and "raise the minimum wage to a living wage" and "enforce laws against wage theft" and "establish a 100% inheritance tax" and "provide free breakfasts in oppressed communities" and "provide material support for community-based self defense organizations" and "disarm police forces, with an eye toward disbanding them" and "seize productive industries and place them under democratic control."
so yeah. "civilized" rules are always already garbage. let's show them what real civilization looks like.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:34 AM on June 26, 2017 [41 favorites]
Isn't the establishment of the rule of law, the development of institutions which are trusted to implement democratic decisions and the establishment of programs which fairly distribute resources exactly what we're talking about, though?
Oppressed people defend themselves against their oppressors, and resources are allocated to those who need them, precisely by establishing a framework in which power is distributed and subject to rules that we have created to govern ourselves and to care for one another.
This isn't to say that rules or laws or bureaucracies are innately good, or deserve our unquestioned obedience. But we should be working to strengthen and democratize and simplify and open up all of these things so that they can better serve us.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:44 AM on June 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
Oppressed people defend themselves against their oppressors, and resources are allocated to those who need them, precisely by establishing a framework in which power is distributed and subject to rules that we have created to govern ourselves and to care for one another.
This isn't to say that rules or laws or bureaucracies are innately good, or deserve our unquestioned obedience. But we should be working to strengthen and democratize and simplify and open up all of these things so that they can better serve us.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:44 AM on June 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
Just what we need: more security theatre.
TSA considers forcing airline passengers to remove books from carry-ons
posted by adamvasco at 11:45 AM on June 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
TSA considers forcing airline passengers to remove books from carry-ons
posted by adamvasco at 11:45 AM on June 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
Trump's tweet describes the Supreme Court's action as a "9-O decision" (yes, with the letter "O" and not a zero). It was actually per curium.
In other news, Sean says Trump "was joking" (!!!) when he asked Russian to hack Hillary's emails during the campaign. He acknowledged that "Russia was probably involved" with the election, but "other countries were probably involved," whatever that means, and he refused to acknowledge that Russia sought to help Trump win.
The fact that they wouldn't acknowledge Russian meddling unless and until they decided to blame Obama is truly pathetic.
posted by zachlipton at 11:50 AM on June 26, 2017 [23 favorites]
In other news, Sean says Trump "was joking" (!!!) when he asked Russian to hack Hillary's emails during the campaign. He acknowledged that "Russia was probably involved" with the election, but "other countries were probably involved," whatever that means, and he refused to acknowledge that Russia sought to help Trump win.
The fact that they wouldn't acknowledge Russian meddling unless and until they decided to blame Obama is truly pathetic.
posted by zachlipton at 11:50 AM on June 26, 2017 [23 favorites]
> Isn't the establishment of the rule of law, the development of institutions which are trusted to implement democratic decisions and the establishment of programs which fairly distribute resources exactly what we're talking about, though?
Oppressed people defend themselves against their oppressors, and resources are allocated to those who need them, precisely by establishing a framework in which power is distributed and subject to rules that we have created to govern ourselves and to care for one another.
Yes, but the framing you're giving puts the cart before the horse. Maintaining democratic control over the economy means constructing institutions to realize democratic control; placing institutions (or "civilized" rules, or even the rule of law) first means that the distribution of resources is constrained by what institutions allow for, rather than those institutions being constrained by the demand that they realize democratic control.
In material terms right now the rule of law is a mirage: the right has never followed it and is currently dropping even the pretense of following it. And really, even liberals mostly honor the rule of law in the breach.
The thing is, though, even if the rule of law were genuinely established, even if we could return to a hypothetical previous era of government via formal rule-driven processes implemented by bureaucratic institutions, it would not get us one step closer toward justice, equality, liberty, or happiness.
formal rule-driven processes are pretty good at defending property, I'll give 'em that — at least, until the large property-owning classes decide to forego the illusion of democratic control and take full direct power for themselves.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:52 AM on June 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
Oppressed people defend themselves against their oppressors, and resources are allocated to those who need them, precisely by establishing a framework in which power is distributed and subject to rules that we have created to govern ourselves and to care for one another.
Yes, but the framing you're giving puts the cart before the horse. Maintaining democratic control over the economy means constructing institutions to realize democratic control; placing institutions (or "civilized" rules, or even the rule of law) first means that the distribution of resources is constrained by what institutions allow for, rather than those institutions being constrained by the demand that they realize democratic control.
In material terms right now the rule of law is a mirage: the right has never followed it and is currently dropping even the pretense of following it. And really, even liberals mostly honor the rule of law in the breach.
The thing is, though, even if the rule of law were genuinely established, even if we could return to a hypothetical previous era of government via formal rule-driven processes implemented by bureaucratic institutions, it would not get us one step closer toward justice, equality, liberty, or happiness.
formal rule-driven processes are pretty good at defending property, I'll give 'em that — at least, until the large property-owning classes decide to forego the illusion of democratic control and take full direct power for themselves.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:52 AM on June 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
"other countries were probably involved,"
Oh, well, that totally makes it better. Everyone's doing it, it'll make you look cool, Russia'll be your best friend.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:53 AM on June 26, 2017
Oh, well, that totally makes it better. Everyone's doing it, it'll make you look cool, Russia'll be your best friend.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:53 AM on June 26, 2017
In other news, Sean says Trump "was joking" (!!!) when he asked Russian to hack Hillary's emails during the campaign.
Benedict Arnold should have tried the "just joking!" defense.
posted by Gelatin at 11:54 AM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
Benedict Arnold should have tried the "just joking!" defense.
posted by Gelatin at 11:54 AM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
Dems are planning to hold the Senate floor again tonight. They're asking people who can get there to pack the galleries -- you can pick up a pass from Schumer's office (room 322 Hart Senate office bldg) before 7:30pm. [tweet w screencap of request and instructions]
posted by melissasaurus at 11:55 AM on June 26, 2017 [47 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 11:55 AM on June 26, 2017 [47 favorites]
MAN I wish I could go to the Senate tonight.
posted by yoga at 11:56 AM on June 26, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by yoga at 11:56 AM on June 26, 2017 [9 favorites]
Sean says Trump "was joking" (!!!) when he asked Russian to hack Hillary's emails during the campaign.
This one doesn't bother me very much. If there was collusion, it didn't occur via Trump's comments during the debates.
posted by diogenes at 11:59 AM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
This one doesn't bother me very much. If there was collusion, it didn't occur via Trump's comments during the debates.
posted by diogenes at 11:59 AM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
he refused to acknowledge that Russia sought to help Trump win
This one bothers me.
posted by diogenes at 12:00 PM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
This one bothers me.
posted by diogenes at 12:00 PM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
If there was collusion, it didn't occur via Trump's comments during the debates.
No, but given Trump's evident inability to keep his trap shut and not incriminate himself, his feeble joke may have stemmed from an awareness that collusion was rife in his campaign.
posted by Gelatin at 12:01 PM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
No, but given Trump's evident inability to keep his trap shut and not incriminate himself, his feeble joke may have stemmed from an awareness that collusion was rife in his campaign.
posted by Gelatin at 12:01 PM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
Sean says Trump "was joking" (!!!) when he asked Russian to hack Hillary's emails during the campaign.
This one doesn't bother me very much. If there was collusion, it didn't occur via Trump's comments during the debates.
I'd rather not normalize J/K!1! in politics. Hold people accountable. Make them think about what they say. Punish them for saying something stupid.
posted by Etrigan at 12:01 PM on June 26, 2017 [29 favorites]
This one doesn't bother me very much. If there was collusion, it didn't occur via Trump's comments during the debates.
I'd rather not normalize J/K!1! in politics. Hold people accountable. Make them think about what they say. Punish them for saying something stupid.
posted by Etrigan at 12:01 PM on June 26, 2017 [29 favorites]
> Trump's tweet describes the Supreme Court's action as a "9-O decision" (yes, with the letter "O" and not a zero)
Is that a speech recognition artifact?
posted by klarck at 12:03 PM on June 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
Is that a speech recognition artifact?
posted by klarck at 12:03 PM on June 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
Republicans today: This bill doesn't touch Medicaid!
Republicans next year: We were joking! Duh!
posted by melissasaurus at 12:04 PM on June 26, 2017 [17 favorites]
Republicans next year: We were joking! Duh!
posted by melissasaurus at 12:04 PM on June 26, 2017 [17 favorites]
TSA considers forcing airline passengers to remove books from carry-ons
From the ACLU post linked to:
The rationale for the policy change given by Kelly and the TSA is that the imposition of growing fees for checked baggage by the airlines has prompted passengers to more densely pack their carry-ons, and that this has made it harder for screeners to identify particular items amid the jumble of images appearing on their screens. Laptops must already be pulled out separately because they are regarded as a heightened threat and can be better examined if they are not scanned in a bag with many other objects. It is not clear to me whether books are also regarded as a special threat or whether they are hard for the TSA to distinguish from explosives. I do know from a tour I was given of the TSA’s testing facility a few years ago that the scanners highlight items that are especially dense, and items that are organic (since explosives are made of organic, i.e. carbon-based, matter). That’s probably why the agency thinks it would speed things along to pull out food and books.Back near the turn of the century I was on a trip and was pulled aside for a bag search by a intimidating-looking two-meter-tall guy who immediately happened across the pornography I had in a side pocket (Old-timey printed pornography! Probably printed on a brass-platened steam-powered printing press!) and his face broke into a broad smile and he said, "Some days this job isn't so bad!"
posted by XMLicious at 12:05 PM on June 26, 2017 [9 favorites]
If you have to wait six months when you change jobs for your insurance to cover you then if we had a functioning media that should kill it dead.
Just to be clear. I'm pretty sure this is for individual coverage only. So (at least as I read it), moving from job with an employer plan to another job with an employer plan = no gap.
Moving from individual coverage to an employer plan = no gap.
Even moving from Medicade to an employer or individual plan = no gap.
Moving from nothing to an individual plan = gap.
Missing (or "missing") a payment in your individual plan = gap
Moving from an employer plan, not taking COBRA, and then getting an individual plan a month later = gap.
I think.
posted by anastasiav at 12:06 PM on June 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
Just to be clear. I'm pretty sure this is for individual coverage only. So (at least as I read it), moving from job with an employer plan to another job with an employer plan = no gap.
Moving from individual coverage to an employer plan = no gap.
Even moving from Medicade to an employer or individual plan = no gap.
Moving from nothing to an individual plan = gap.
Missing (or "missing") a payment in your individual plan = gap
Moving from an employer plan, not taking COBRA, and then getting an individual plan a month later = gap.
I think.
posted by anastasiav at 12:06 PM on June 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
Well that's going to go down well, COBRA being hyper-expensive.
(Why is COBRA such garbage? Why is there not an alternative available at normal rates that are just an arm and a leg and not the whole torso?)
posted by Artw at 12:10 PM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
(Why is COBRA such garbage? Why is there not an alternative available at normal rates that are just an arm and a leg and not the whole torso?)
posted by Artw at 12:10 PM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
(Why is COBRA such garbage? Why is there not an alternative available at normal rates that are just an arm and a leg and not the whole torso?)
It's a great way for employers to scare their employees into not leaving, even against their other interests.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 12:13 PM on June 26, 2017 [30 favorites]
It's a great way for employers to scare their employees into not leaving, even against their other interests.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 12:13 PM on June 26, 2017 [30 favorites]
COBRA is just paying for the same level of group/employer plan you had before quitting, except without the employer portion. You can keep coverage as long as you can foot the entire bill on your own (actually you can be required to pay up to 102% of the total premium, the 2% is just a fuck you for no reason).
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:15 PM on June 26, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:15 PM on June 26, 2017 [13 favorites]
Moving from an employer plan, not taking COBRA, and then getting an individual plan a month later = gap.
I think.
Woah.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 12:15 PM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
I think.
Woah.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 12:15 PM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
Gotta say, every time I see someone post in Ask like "I got laid off and got COBRA so that's fine yadda here's my ask about taking some time off to find myself before getting a new job" I'm like hold up, rewind, you got COBRA and that's fine? These are all English words yet they do not make sense in the order you have put them in.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:15 PM on June 26, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:15 PM on June 26, 2017 [18 favorites]
Why is COBRA such garbage? Why is there not an alternative available at normal rates that are just an arm and a leg and not the whole torso?
If memory serves me correctly, at least one reason is because with COBRA one pays the entire cost of insurance, including the portion the employer formerly covered.
posted by Gelatin at 12:15 PM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
If memory serves me correctly, at least one reason is because with COBRA one pays the entire cost of insurance, including the portion the employer formerly covered.
posted by Gelatin at 12:15 PM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Eric Levitz, NYMag:
In June, we thought he had a summer cold.
In July, he started losing weight.
In August, he started spending days in bed because the summer cold had turned into summer flu, and it just wouldn't go away.
In September, he thought he was having a heart attack. I made him go to the emergency room, and we stayed there two hours, four hours, six hours, eight hours. I finally drove home by myself at six o'clock in the morning, after he was admitted because they didn't want to discharge him until a specialist had spoken to him about the shadow in his chest that turned out to be a four inch tumor. I still remember that walk to the parking garage. I passed a McDonald's where some of the early morning regulars told me that my dress was pretty -- when my husband told me that he was having a heart attack, we'd been out on our anniversary dinner, which was, incidentally, doing double service to celebrate that I was finally pregnant.
If we hadn't had insurance coverage, and the BCRA has been in effect, we would've been fucking locked out of insurance coverage for six months after that -- in June, he'd been a healthy early-thirties guy, hiking in Yosemite. By September, he would get winded climbing the stairs. He had a four-inch tumor in his chest, between his heart and his lungs.
I'm so fucking angry at Pat Toomey right now that I don't know what to do with myself.
posted by joyceanmachine at 12:19 PM on June 26, 2017 [115 favorites]
The new bill includes a six-month waiting period for those who want to purchase individual market coverage but have had a more than two-month break in coverage at some point in the past yearThere are a lot of political things to scream about today, but I'm kinda fucking stuck on the health care bill because today, my husband went back for one of his regular tests to make sure he hasn't had a recurrence of y'know. The lymphoma that started growing in him almost exactly two years ago right around this time.
Under this rule, if you miss a payment on your insurance, go without coverage for an extended period of time — and then develop a serious illness — you will have no means of obtaining coverage on the individual market for six months. Which is to say: Instead of coercing Americans into buying insurance through a small financial penalty, the GOP would do so by locking some cancer patients out of access to insurance for a potentially fatal amount of time.
In June, we thought he had a summer cold.
In July, he started losing weight.
In August, he started spending days in bed because the summer cold had turned into summer flu, and it just wouldn't go away.
In September, he thought he was having a heart attack. I made him go to the emergency room, and we stayed there two hours, four hours, six hours, eight hours. I finally drove home by myself at six o'clock in the morning, after he was admitted because they didn't want to discharge him until a specialist had spoken to him about the shadow in his chest that turned out to be a four inch tumor. I still remember that walk to the parking garage. I passed a McDonald's where some of the early morning regulars told me that my dress was pretty -- when my husband told me that he was having a heart attack, we'd been out on our anniversary dinner, which was, incidentally, doing double service to celebrate that I was finally pregnant.
If we hadn't had insurance coverage, and the BCRA has been in effect, we would've been fucking locked out of insurance coverage for six months after that -- in June, he'd been a healthy early-thirties guy, hiking in Yosemite. By September, he would get winded climbing the stairs. He had a four-inch tumor in his chest, between his heart and his lungs.
I'm so fucking angry at Pat Toomey right now that I don't know what to do with myself.
posted by joyceanmachine at 12:19 PM on June 26, 2017 [115 favorites]
I'm like hold up, rewind, you got COBRA and that's fine? These are all English words yet they do not make sense in the order you have put them in.
If I lost my job, COBRA for my family would be about $1100 per month, which is, I suspect, less than what insurance would cost us on the individual market. Not terrific, but not horrific either. The key is that your employer needs to be a BIG group paying reasonable rates. If your employer is a smaller group (particularly an older, smaller group) or your employer didn't negotiate well, or they just have a super Cadillac plan that they pay a huge chunk of the (tax deductible) cost for, you're screwed.
posted by anastasiav at 12:20 PM on June 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
If I lost my job, COBRA for my family would be about $1100 per month, which is, I suspect, less than what insurance would cost us on the individual market. Not terrific, but not horrific either. The key is that your employer needs to be a BIG group paying reasonable rates. If your employer is a smaller group (particularly an older, smaller group) or your employer didn't negotiate well, or they just have a super Cadillac plan that they pay a huge chunk of the (tax deductible) cost for, you're screwed.
posted by anastasiav at 12:20 PM on June 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
Sean says Trump "was joking" (!!!) when he asked Russian to hack Hillary's emails during the campaign.
Maybe I'm a weirdo but I immediately thought (and still think) he was "joking" (or more accurately, attempting to score points against Clinton with non-literal language, and simultaneously seem edgy by saying outrageous things).
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 12:22 PM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
Maybe I'm a weirdo but I immediately thought (and still think) he was "joking" (or more accurately, attempting to score points against Clinton with non-literal language, and simultaneously seem edgy by saying outrageous things).
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 12:22 PM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
The fact that they wouldn't acknowledge Russian meddling unless and until they decided to blame Obama is truly pathetic.
We have always been at war with Eastasia.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:23 PM on June 26, 2017
God I hate everything to do with American healthcare. That it can actually be made worse is amazing.
posted by Artw at 12:28 PM on June 26, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Artw at 12:28 PM on June 26, 2017 [12 favorites]
Some jokes are still "jokes" but actually kind of hot jokes, you know?
And he's never, ever joking to be funny.
posted by Artw at 12:30 PM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
And he's never, ever joking to be funny.
posted by Artw at 12:30 PM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Joyceanmachine, I can scarcely imagine your rage, and I am so sorry that your husband got so ill. And I'm glad he's doing better--may he stay recovered.
But if you can stomach it, please make sure every elected federal representative you can plausibly claim to have ever related to you as a citizen hears that story.
posted by Sublimity at 12:30 PM on June 26, 2017 [22 favorites]
But if you can stomach it, please make sure every elected federal representative you can plausibly claim to have ever related to you as a citizen hears that story.
posted by Sublimity at 12:30 PM on June 26, 2017 [22 favorites]
I keep reading comments from all of us like joyceanmachine and thinking about how my mother's Medicare took care of everything from her diagnosis of Stage IV Ovarian Cancer 2 years ago, to her passing last month and I think about, if this passes, what happens to all the people who watch their love ones lose treatments because of technicalities put forth by the GOP. We hear about people being radicalized when America drops bombs on their loved ones, but what about when it happens here?
posted by Brainy at 12:30 PM on June 26, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by Brainy at 12:30 PM on June 26, 2017 [20 favorites]
God I hate everything to do with American healthcare. That it can actually be made worse is amazing.
We choose to make American healthcare worse, not because it's easy, but because it's hard, because that goal will serve to further enrich the richest among us!
posted by diogenes at 12:33 PM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
We choose to make American healthcare worse, not because it's easy, but because it's hard, because that goal will serve to further enrich the richest among us!
posted by diogenes at 12:33 PM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
We hear about people being radicalized when America drops bombs on their loved ones, but what about when it happens here?
Maybe we get Republicans suddenly keen on gun control as an upside?
posted by Artw at 12:33 PM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Maybe we get Republicans suddenly keen on gun control as an upside?
posted by Artw at 12:33 PM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
For fear of ending up on various watch lists, I've refrained from describing just how close I might be to becoming radicalized. My wife dies because of some chicanery? I, uh, continue to refrain from specifying my proximity to radicalization.
posted by Fezboy! at 12:33 PM on June 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Fezboy! at 12:33 PM on June 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
Old people will be thrown out of nursing homes. If they don't have families, where will they go...homeless shelters? The street? People's children will die from lack of access to care. Disabled people will die from lack of access to care. Will that horror be enough to wake up my fellow Americans? Do we really have to go through that horror for that to happen?
I feel so sick thinking that might be the case. I feel even sicker thinking it won't make a difference.
posted by emjaybee at 12:35 PM on June 26, 2017 [36 favorites]
I feel so sick thinking that might be the case. I feel even sicker thinking it won't make a difference.
posted by emjaybee at 12:35 PM on June 26, 2017 [36 favorites]
I had a very expensive cancer that will be even more expensive if it shows back up again. I have a vague plan to move all my assets to an offshore account (those are real, right? not just something in the movies?) and then have treatment and avoid bill collectors until the treatment is over and then flee the United States for Ecuador or something like that. Shh. This is a great plan.
posted by something something at 12:35 PM on June 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by something something at 12:35 PM on June 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
Trump's tweet describes the Supreme Court's action as a "9-O decision" (yes, with the letter "O" and not a zero). It was actually per curiam.
Per curiam decisions are unanimous, so he wasn't wrong in that regard. The phrase means there isn't an identified author to the opinion or order. Instead the opinion or order is authored "by the court" collectively.
posted by jedicus at 12:37 PM on June 26, 2017
Per curiam decisions are unanimous, so he wasn't wrong in that regard. The phrase means there isn't an identified author to the opinion or order. Instead the opinion or order is authored "by the court" collectively.
posted by jedicus at 12:37 PM on June 26, 2017
The 'tick tick tick' guy reminds me of Metroman, Toronto's foremost authority on Rob Ford-related scoops which rarely if ever came to pass.
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:38 PM on June 26, 2017
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:38 PM on June 26, 2017
anybody know why the tick tick guy and Sean Hannity are threatening via twitter to duel or something
no but I've never wanted both sides to lose more
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:38 PM on June 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
no but I've never wanted both sides to lose more
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:38 PM on June 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
Old people will be thrown out of nursing homes. If they don't have families, where will they go...homeless shelters? The street?
Even if they do have families, caring for the aged and infirm will prove a tremendous burden -- and let's not forget, under FMLA people can only take unpaid leave to care for an ailing family member. With an aging population, the American people will feel the burden of Republican policies sooner rather than later. Republicans seem to be banking hard on tribalism leading their voters to blame Democrats no matter what. Or their patrons' wealth and voting restrictions to keep them in power. But if not, Democrats need to go after the latter two the way Republicans went after unions.
posted by Gelatin at 12:39 PM on June 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
Even if they do have families, caring for the aged and infirm will prove a tremendous burden -- and let's not forget, under FMLA people can only take unpaid leave to care for an ailing family member. With an aging population, the American people will feel the burden of Republican policies sooner rather than later. Republicans seem to be banking hard on tribalism leading their voters to blame Democrats no matter what. Or their patrons' wealth and voting restrictions to keep them in power. But if not, Democrats need to go after the latter two the way Republicans went after unions.
posted by Gelatin at 12:39 PM on June 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
anybody know why the tick tick guy and Sean Hannity are threatening via twitter to duel or something
Because Hannity accused Wittes of committing a crime. Wittes is challenging him to a duel, but I don't think Hannity has accepted yet.
I don't see how anybody can think Wittes is as bad as Hannity. You might not like his ticking, but he isn't a fascist bootlicker.
posted by diogenes at 12:41 PM on June 26, 2017 [39 favorites]
Because Hannity accused Wittes of committing a crime. Wittes is challenging him to a duel, but I don't think Hannity has accepted yet.
I don't see how anybody can think Wittes is as bad as Hannity. You might not like his ticking, but he isn't a fascist bootlicker.
posted by diogenes at 12:41 PM on June 26, 2017 [39 favorites]
Old people will be thrown out of nursing homes. If they don't have families, where will they go...homeless shelters? The street? People's children will die from lack of access to care. Disabled people will die from lack of access to care. Will that horror be enough to wake up my fellow Americans? Do we really have to go through that horror for that to happen?
And also if you want to ignore the humane side of things and focus strictly on the economics - those nursing homes will all go under and those jobs will vanish. All those businesses that positioned themselves for the boomer wave of elder care? Fucked. The medical sector? A whole bunch of patients just vanished right out of their projections. Those states that targeted relocating seniors? Also screwed. The children of those boomers who thought they might just maybe has some sort of inheritance coming? End of life care costs say "no".
This bill will send damaging shockwaves through everything.
posted by srboisvert at 12:42 PM on June 26, 2017 [39 favorites]
And also if you want to ignore the humane side of things and focus strictly on the economics - those nursing homes will all go under and those jobs will vanish. All those businesses that positioned themselves for the boomer wave of elder care? Fucked. The medical sector? A whole bunch of patients just vanished right out of their projections. Those states that targeted relocating seniors? Also screwed. The children of those boomers who thought they might just maybe has some sort of inheritance coming? End of life care costs say "no".
This bill will send damaging shockwaves through everything.
posted by srboisvert at 12:42 PM on June 26, 2017 [39 favorites]
Phillip Bump produced a little interactive that shows how the money flows in your county under BCRA. It doesn't incorporate family size, which is annoying, but I like that it doesn't just show what happens to your health care costs; it shows the other side, which is rich people getting tax cuts. This makes it super explicit that you pay more for health care so they can pay less in taxes. This Vox chart, linked upthread, shows this incredibly effectively as well.
Some kind of hilarious mix-up has led to a plane towing a banner over West Virginia encouraging Sen. Heller to vote no on the bill. They presumably meant Sen. Capito. Oops.
posted by zachlipton at 12:42 PM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
Some kind of hilarious mix-up has led to a plane towing a banner over West Virginia encouraging Sen. Heller to vote no on the bill. They presumably meant Sen. Capito. Oops.
posted by zachlipton at 12:42 PM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
The 'tick tick tick' guy reminds me of Metroman, Toronto's foremost authority on Rob Ford-related scoops which rarely if ever came to pass.
What are you talking about? Except every time Wittes does this a bombshell article follows.
posted by diogenes at 12:43 PM on June 26, 2017 [12 favorites]
What are you talking about? Except every time Wittes does this a bombshell article follows.
posted by diogenes at 12:43 PM on June 26, 2017 [12 favorites]
Republicans seem to be banking hard on tribalism leading their voters to blame Democrats no matter what. Or their patrons' wealth and voting restrictions to keep them in power.
It's a bet that they've never lost yet.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:44 PM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's a bet that they've never lost yet.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:44 PM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
Has it? Sorry, I was under the impression that his ticks wound up being mostly hype, but if not I cheerfully retract my snark.
It's so hard to keep everything straight these days.
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:45 PM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's so hard to keep everything straight these days.
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:45 PM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
His ticks do usually mean something is about to drop. Mileage on how big that something is/turns out to be varies.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:46 PM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:46 PM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
The ticking is pretty lame, though. What's the point, beyond "LOOK AT ME!"
posted by something something at 12:47 PM on June 26, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by something something at 12:47 PM on June 26, 2017 [17 favorites]
Oh, for sure, it's stupid. But it's not disingenuous.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:48 PM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:48 PM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
The ticking is pretty lame, though. What's the point, beyond "LOOK AT ME!"
People start to doth protest too much. Example A is Twitler's morning diarrhea.
posted by Talez at 12:48 PM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
People start to doth protest too much. Example A is Twitler's morning diarrhea.
posted by Talez at 12:48 PM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
The ticks were reliable enough that I was legit shocked when Comey was asked whether Wittes was the one he was leaking to and he said "No".
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 12:49 PM on June 26, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 12:49 PM on June 26, 2017 [8 favorites]
Howdy, folks. The fabulous books for weapons and I just finished a graphic to share on Facebook or elsewhere about Trumpcare and West Virginia. I did the concept and text, he hacked together the graphic cause he's not a graphics guy. I'm trying to put together real-life examples of the Trumpcare winners and losers for the 10 most important states. If you think it's worth sharing, please do. If you're a graphics wiz who wants to clean up something or help in another way, just let me know. One down, nine to go. Thanks for helping me stay sane-ish.
posted by Bella Donna at 12:50 PM on June 26, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 12:50 PM on June 26, 2017 [18 favorites]
Tick, tick, tick. In Trump's fascism, not even the scandals run on time.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:51 PM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:51 PM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Mileage on how big that something is/turns out to be varies.
That's only because everything is so crazy right now. In a sane world, further details about how the President pressured the FBI director to end an investigation (right before he fired him) would be considered a big story.
posted by diogenes at 12:52 PM on June 26, 2017 [13 favorites]
That's only because everything is so crazy right now. In a sane world, further details about how the President pressured the FBI director to end an investigation (right before he fired him) would be considered a big story.
posted by diogenes at 12:52 PM on June 26, 2017 [13 favorites]
I take the soda can detonation that Wittes posted to indicate the story will be small though?
I don't think the gifs are correlated to the size of the bombshell.
posted by diogenes at 12:54 PM on June 26, 2017
I don't think the gifs are correlated to the size of the bombshell.
posted by diogenes at 12:54 PM on June 26, 2017
when nothing less than the Trump Administration literally exploding like an evil henchman in a John Carpenter movie will bring satisfaction, every tick of the Wittes is likely to bring only disappointment
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:55 PM on June 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:55 PM on June 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
when nothing less than the Trump Administration literally exploding like an evil henchman in a John Carpenter movie will bring satisfaction, every tick of the Wittes is likely to bring only disappointment
Probably, but it seems like this upcoming article includes collusion, so we've got that going for us, which is nice.
posted by diogenes at 12:57 PM on June 26, 2017 [9 favorites]
Probably, but it seems like this upcoming article includes collusion, so we've got that going for us, which is nice.
posted by diogenes at 12:57 PM on June 26, 2017 [9 favorites]
For any conference where cameras are banned, they should just splice the audio over old Spicer SNL video.
(Really, though, just turn on the cameras. A phone camera live streaming is fine. Even if you only care about ratings, TV news boss, your footage of your reporter getting thrown out of the press room/arrested will be seen by a lot of people).
posted by mikepop at 1:11 PM on June 26, 2017 [9 favorites]
(Really, though, just turn on the cameras. A phone camera live streaming is fine. Even if you only care about ratings, TV news boss, your footage of your reporter getting thrown out of the press room/arrested will be seen by a lot of people).
posted by mikepop at 1:11 PM on June 26, 2017 [9 favorites]
I know it's easier said than done, but I agree, mikepop. Why isn't "This administration hates the press WTF?!" a story in itself? How much more insulting to the First Amendment do these people need to be before the press pushes back just on principle?
posted by Rykey at 1:17 PM on June 26, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Rykey at 1:17 PM on June 26, 2017 [8 favorites]
diogenes This one bothers me.
It bothers you because it is direct reality denial of the up is down, black is white, variety. Its gaslighting plain and simple.
To refuse to acknowledge that Russia tried to help Trump win requires you to ignore the fact that the CIA told Obama that Putin personally ordered his intelligence apparatus to help Trump win. We've got everything but an actual audio file of Putin saying "I'm Vlad Putin and I have personally ordered Russian intelligence to help Trump win the 216 election."
So it bothers you because it represents a continuance of the Trump policy of flatly contradicting realiy if reality is inconvenient.
Was his inauguration crowd smaller than Obama's? Nevermind, just say it was bigger and insist that your lie is better than the truth.
Trump has been gaslighting America since long before he took the election. And he won't stop. There is no lie he won't tell and Spicer and his other spox won't repeat and defend. It doesn't matter how stupid the lie is, how blatant it is, how harmful it is, Trump and his cultists will lie and utterly refuse to admit it.
posted by sotonohito at 1:18 PM on June 26, 2017 [32 favorites]
It bothers you because it is direct reality denial of the up is down, black is white, variety. Its gaslighting plain and simple.
To refuse to acknowledge that Russia tried to help Trump win requires you to ignore the fact that the CIA told Obama that Putin personally ordered his intelligence apparatus to help Trump win. We've got everything but an actual audio file of Putin saying "I'm Vlad Putin and I have personally ordered Russian intelligence to help Trump win the 216 election."
So it bothers you because it represents a continuance of the Trump policy of flatly contradicting realiy if reality is inconvenient.
Was his inauguration crowd smaller than Obama's? Nevermind, just say it was bigger and insist that your lie is better than the truth.
Trump has been gaslighting America since long before he took the election. And he won't stop. There is no lie he won't tell and Spicer and his other spox won't repeat and defend. It doesn't matter how stupid the lie is, how blatant it is, how harmful it is, Trump and his cultists will lie and utterly refuse to admit it.
posted by sotonohito at 1:18 PM on June 26, 2017 [32 favorites]
What is the excuse they give for not holding proper press briefings, and what purpose does it serve not to see Spicy's puss?
posted by stonepharisee at 1:20 PM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by stonepharisee at 1:20 PM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
mikepop: Even if you only care about ratings, TV news boss, your footage of your reporter getting thrown out of the press room/arrested will be seen by a lot of people.
To avoid their network being punished, couldn't the brave reporter give the video to some disinterested third party? A lover of impartiality who drops Truth Bombs? A free spirit? And if they're not available, what about Wikileaks?
posted by wenestvedt at 1:20 PM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
To avoid their network being punished, couldn't the brave reporter give the video to some disinterested third party? A lover of impartiality who drops Truth Bombs? A free spirit? And if they're not available, what about Wikileaks?
posted by wenestvedt at 1:20 PM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
CBO: 22 million more uninsured under the Senate bill compared to ACA.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:22 PM on June 26, 2017 [41 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:22 PM on June 26, 2017 [41 favorites]
Are people really attacked for saying "we should raise taxes on high earners" or "we should push for single-payer"?
More like there isn't really a lot of support for "the Democratic Party should push policies that apply to most people, right now." The policies most pushed don't affect most people in their current lives with the problems they feel the most. 90% of Americans have employer provided healthcare and are not likely to receive proposed benefits. Their parents aren't likely to want to impoverish their children for end of life care even if Medicaid does get cut.
Right now the middle class is angry, and if the Dems wanted, they could clean up by offering to expand the safety net upwards. But there's a lot of resistance to that because it would also help the "white working class" - but wouldn't it be better to offer them tangible help rather than scapegoats?
posted by corb at 1:23 PM on June 26, 2017
More like there isn't really a lot of support for "the Democratic Party should push policies that apply to most people, right now." The policies most pushed don't affect most people in their current lives with the problems they feel the most. 90% of Americans have employer provided healthcare and are not likely to receive proposed benefits. Their parents aren't likely to want to impoverish their children for end of life care even if Medicaid does get cut.
Right now the middle class is angry, and if the Dems wanted, they could clean up by offering to expand the safety net upwards. But there's a lot of resistance to that because it would also help the "white working class" - but wouldn't it be better to offer them tangible help rather than scapegoats?
posted by corb at 1:23 PM on June 26, 2017
The CBO seems to have leaked, maybe? NYT reports a top line number of 22 million, 15 million starting next year, deficit reduced by $321 billion over the decade.
My twitter list of health care people is my recommended place to go for rapid analysis.
posted by zachlipton at 1:23 PM on June 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
My twitter list of health care people is my recommended place to go for rapid analysis.
posted by zachlipton at 1:23 PM on June 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
What is the excuse they give for not holding proper press briefings, and what purpose does it serve not to see Spicy's puss?
He'd prefer to let 45 speak for himself and would "rather sit here and have a very enjoyable conversation", CNN (autoplay video)
Alternative, Sean got fatter. [real/"jk lol"]
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 1:27 PM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
He'd prefer to let 45 speak for himself and would "rather sit here and have a very enjoyable conversation", CNN (autoplay video)
Alternative, Sean got fatter. [real/"jk lol"]
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 1:27 PM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
But there's a lot of resistance to that because it would also help the "white working class"
Wait, what? I don't even think I've seen Twitter randos say anything like this. It's certainly not the sentiment of large parts of the left.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:27 PM on June 26, 2017 [14 favorites]
Wait, what? I don't even think I've seen Twitter randos say anything like this. It's certainly not the sentiment of large parts of the left.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:27 PM on June 26, 2017 [14 favorites]
corb But there's a lot of resistance to that because it would also help the "white working class" - but wouldn't it be better to offer them tangible help rather than scapegoats?
Where can I find any of that supposed resistance on the left?
Or were you referring to the Republicans when you said there was a lot of resistance to giving help and preferring scapegoats?
posted by sotonohito at 1:29 PM on June 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
Where can I find any of that supposed resistance on the left?
Or were you referring to the Republicans when you said there was a lot of resistance to giving help and preferring scapegoats?
posted by sotonohito at 1:29 PM on June 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
Really, though, just turn on the cameras. A phone camera live streaming is fine. Even if you only care about ratings, TV news boss, your footage of your reporter getting thrown out of the press room/arrested will be seen by a lot of people.
Here's how the press sees it:
@GlennThrush
Here's how the press sees it:
@GlennThrush
Life hacks for off-air briefing:@Turkewitz
1) Courtroom artist
2) sock-puppet reenactment of transcript
3) shout everything Sean says into open mic
And what would happen if a White House reporter took out a camera and started recording?@GlennThrush
It wouldn't be an 'individual' decision -- it would jeopardize the entire WH press corps. I don't have that right.posted by a snickering nuthatch at 1:29 PM on June 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
I remember when Republican jokes about Russia used to be about outlawing them, not asking for help
posted by Apocryphon at 1:29 PM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Apocryphon at 1:29 PM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
But there's a lot of resistance to that because it would also help the "white working class"
Wait, what? I don't even think I've seen Twitter randos say anything like this. It's certainly not the sentiment of large parts of the left.
I was going to let this one pass because we don't need another round of "let's parse Corb's politics," but now that the ice has been broken, damn that's a strange thing to say!
posted by diogenes at 1:30 PM on June 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
Wait, what? I don't even think I've seen Twitter randos say anything like this. It's certainly not the sentiment of large parts of the left.
I was going to let this one pass because we don't need another round of "let's parse Corb's politics," but now that the ice has been broken, damn that's a strange thing to say!
posted by diogenes at 1:30 PM on June 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
It wouldn't be an 'individual' decision -- it would jeopardize the entire WH press corps. I don't have that right.
so brave
the fourth estate, everyone
posted by entropicamericana at 1:30 PM on June 26, 2017 [23 favorites]
so brave
the fourth estate, everyone
posted by entropicamericana at 1:30 PM on June 26, 2017 [23 favorites]
But there's a lot of resistance to that because it would also help the "white working class"
Yeah, I really don't care if the social policies that help me will also help Nazis, because maybe they'll convince some of them to stop being Nazis.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:31 PM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yeah, I really don't care if the social policies that help me will also help Nazis, because maybe they'll convince some of them to stop being Nazis.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:31 PM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
So it's half past 4 Eastern time--where's the BOOM! already?
posted by orrnyereg at 1:33 PM on June 26, 2017
posted by orrnyereg at 1:33 PM on June 26, 2017
Democrats can't "clean up" anywhere where there has been 40 years worth of propaganda about soshulism and snowflakes and BLM is a terrorist organization etc etc etc, it doesn't matter what the platform is. (And the platform, the actual document that is out there and anyone can read is full of social policies that would help the working and middle classes of all colors.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:33 PM on June 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:33 PM on June 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
Any word on the numbers outside the 10 year window that zachlipton mentioned up thread?
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 1:33 PM on June 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 1:33 PM on June 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
I have no idea if that CBO thing is bad enough to get any press or attention. In normal world it would be catastrophic, but we left that behind long ago.
posted by Artw at 1:33 PM on June 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 1:33 PM on June 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
Every time I see "BCRA" my brain reorders it to "BRCA" and I'm just like, damn, why are these guys naming their bill after a gene that causes breast cancer it probably won't cover?
posted by marshmallow peep at 1:34 PM on June 26, 2017 [44 favorites]
posted by marshmallow peep at 1:34 PM on June 26, 2017 [44 favorites]
Where's the BOOM! already?
Where's the kaboom? There was supposed to be an earth-shattering kaboom!
posted by Melismata at 1:34 PM on June 26, 2017 [16 favorites]
Where's the kaboom? There was supposed to be an earth-shattering kaboom!
posted by Melismata at 1:34 PM on June 26, 2017 [16 favorites]
I have no idea if that CBO thing is bad enough to get any press or attention.
It's as bad as the House version, and that got plenty of attention. And the House had the advantage of voting before it was out.
posted by diogenes at 1:35 PM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's as bad as the House version, and that got plenty of attention. And the House had the advantage of voting before it was out.
posted by diogenes at 1:35 PM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm genuinely fucking curious.
My number two desire (number one being shooting all these assholes into the center of the sun like yesterday) lately is an opportunity to sit down with them, look them in the eye and just straight up ask: what the hell is wrong with you?
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:35 PM on June 26, 2017 [23 favorites]
My number two desire (number one being shooting all these assholes into the center of the sun like yesterday) lately is an opportunity to sit down with them, look them in the eye and just straight up ask: what the hell is wrong with you?
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:35 PM on June 26, 2017 [23 favorites]
But there's a lot of resistance to that because it would also help the "white working class" - but wouldn't it be better to offer them tangible help rather than scapegoats?
I think most Democrats have been promoting policies which would also help the white working class. (Though the specifically rural white working class, I think, needs more help than we've been offering, to actually keep their communities from disappearing.)
Unfortunately, they seem to prefer scapegoats. Possibly because the help we keep offering comes in the form of "government handouts." And it is insulting to take those. They'd rather succeed "on their own" -- but if they're not succeeding, they want government help suppressing their "cheating" competition. Hence... scapegoats.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:35 PM on June 26, 2017 [13 favorites]
I think most Democrats have been promoting policies which would also help the white working class. (Though the specifically rural white working class, I think, needs more help than we've been offering, to actually keep their communities from disappearing.)
Unfortunately, they seem to prefer scapegoats. Possibly because the help we keep offering comes in the form of "government handouts." And it is insulting to take those. They'd rather succeed "on their own" -- but if they're not succeeding, they want government help suppressing their "cheating" competition. Hence... scapegoats.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:35 PM on June 26, 2017 [13 favorites]
"It wouldn't be an 'individual' decision -- it would jeopardize the entire WH press corps. I don't have that right."
They'd kick out the "offenders"/"fake news" and then replace them with Breitbart et al.
"My number two desire (number one being shooting all these assholes into the center of the sun like yesterday) lately is an opportunity to sit down with them, look them in the eye and just straight up ask: what the hell is wrong with you?"
Money/Power.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 1:37 PM on June 26, 2017
They'd kick out the "offenders"/"fake news" and then replace them with Breitbart et al.
"My number two desire (number one being shooting all these assholes into the center of the sun like yesterday) lately is an opportunity to sit down with them, look them in the eye and just straight up ask: what the hell is wrong with you?"
Money/Power.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 1:37 PM on June 26, 2017
From the CBO:
Actually just yesterday a family member told me that they don't like (homeowner's and auto) insurance and just want to spend as little as possible on it.
How do we talk about something like this in easy-to-understand terms? "Saving money" is concrete, "this'll cover 12% less of your healthcare costs" is a bit more abstract.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 1:37 PM on June 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
In 2020, average premiums for benchmark plans for single individuals would be about 30 percent lower than under current law. A combination of factors would lead to that decrease—most important, the smaller share of benefits paid for by the benchmark plans and federal funds provided to directly reduce premiums.Save money by getting a plan that is so bad it isn't even offered right now? I unfortunately know a lot of people just care about the "save money" part of that equation :/
That share of services covered by insurance would be smaller because the benchmark plan under this legislation would have an actuarial value of 58 percent beginning in 2020. That value is slightly below the actuarial value of 60 percent for “bronze” plans currently offered in the marketplaces.
Actually just yesterday a family member told me that they don't like (homeowner's and auto) insurance and just want to spend as little as possible on it.
How do we talk about something like this in easy-to-understand terms? "Saving money" is concrete, "this'll cover 12% less of your healthcare costs" is a bit more abstract.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 1:37 PM on June 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
This bill will send damaging shockwaves through everything.
When the media says 'It will impact a sixth of the American economy!', they focus on the strictly-healthcare sections, not the ancillary and knock-on sectors: restaurants in medical districts, commercial real estate for twilight/urgent-care clinics, day care for children of nurses on swing shifts, hospital-adjacent residential real estate and all their concomitant plumbers, electricians and carpenters, the list goes on.
It's a bit of hyperbole to say that if healthcare, as an economic sector, takes a significant hit it would crater the American economy, but consider: we're only now, ten years on, beginning to dig out of the recession of '08 (not equally or in all places, but play along). If you knock the legs out of one of the brighter spots of the nascent recovery, how long would it take us to get even this far back on track? It's a given that elections (or re-elections) of administrations often hinge on the economy, regardless of how much actual control the president has over it, so it's impossible to see the republican insistence on passing something even remotely like this bill as anything other than political suicide.
I understand that it's important that they remain true to their stated goals, but I just don't think that they've figured out that non-medicare healthcare has become a third rail, like fucking with social security or reinstating the draft.
posted by eclectist at 1:38 PM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
When the media says 'It will impact a sixth of the American economy!', they focus on the strictly-healthcare sections, not the ancillary and knock-on sectors: restaurants in medical districts, commercial real estate for twilight/urgent-care clinics, day care for children of nurses on swing shifts, hospital-adjacent residential real estate and all their concomitant plumbers, electricians and carpenters, the list goes on.
It's a bit of hyperbole to say that if healthcare, as an economic sector, takes a significant hit it would crater the American economy, but consider: we're only now, ten years on, beginning to dig out of the recession of '08 (not equally or in all places, but play along). If you knock the legs out of one of the brighter spots of the nascent recovery, how long would it take us to get even this far back on track? It's a given that elections (or re-elections) of administrations often hinge on the economy, regardless of how much actual control the president has over it, so it's impossible to see the republican insistence on passing something even remotely like this bill as anything other than political suicide.
I understand that it's important that they remain true to their stated goals, but I just don't think that they've figured out that non-medicare healthcare has become a third rail, like fucking with social security or reinstating the draft.
posted by eclectist at 1:38 PM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
So it's half past 4 Eastern time--where's the BOOM! already?
The Witching Hour doesn't even begin until 5 PM (and the window is more like two hours these days).
posted by Doktor Zed at 1:41 PM on June 26, 2017
The Witching Hour doesn't even begin until 5 PM (and the window is more like two hours these days).
posted by Doktor Zed at 1:41 PM on June 26, 2017
How do we talk about something like this in easy-to-understand terms? "Saving money" is concrete, "this'll cover 12% less of your healthcare costs" is a bit more abstract.
How about these for starters:
How about these for starters:
- "These "cheaper" plans will bankrupt you when you become ill because they won't cover the cost of treatment. You will not save money--you will be bankrupted."
- "You will pay more money for medications, routine doctors appointments, and emergency services."
- "You will not be able to afford an assisted living facility because these anaemic plans will not cover them. You may spend your final, sickest years on the street."
- "By allowing these worse plans on the market, you may get to watch your child die of preventable illness because your insurance won't cover their treatment."
- "Your relatives in rural areas will have the freedom to die from preventable causes because they won't be able to get to hospitals because this bill will results in their closure."
The number one employer in Pittsburgh (a city often singled out as an exemplar of creating a viable post-industrial economy) is a health care system. They are the tenth largest employer in the entire state of Pennsylvania.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:44 PM on June 26, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:44 PM on June 26, 2017 [19 favorites]
My number two desire (number one being shooting all these assholes into the center of the sun like yesterday) lately is an opportunity to sit down with them, look them in the eye and just straight up ask: what the hell is wrong with you?
I have wondered how big of a check it would take to get Ryan to admit what he actually wants from all of this. I can at least understand McConnell's perspective - he, like Trump, can enjoy the fruits of power secure in the knowledge that he'll be dead before the shit well and truly hits the fan. But Ryan's 25 years younger than they are. He doesn't get that privilege -- if he dies young it'll be because the shit has hit the fan. So has he actually convinced himself that running the country like a hedge fund that only cares about quarterly profit will somehow not produce fallout? Is there a plan for Fallout vaults in the Texas desert? Does he think we'll be Soylent Green'ing it? It's horrifically puzzling.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:44 PM on June 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
I have wondered how big of a check it would take to get Ryan to admit what he actually wants from all of this. I can at least understand McConnell's perspective - he, like Trump, can enjoy the fruits of power secure in the knowledge that he'll be dead before the shit well and truly hits the fan. But Ryan's 25 years younger than they are. He doesn't get that privilege -- if he dies young it'll be because the shit has hit the fan. So has he actually convinced himself that running the country like a hedge fund that only cares about quarterly profit will somehow not produce fallout? Is there a plan for Fallout vaults in the Texas desert? Does he think we'll be Soylent Green'ing it? It's horrifically puzzling.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:44 PM on June 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
You're going to love my new "insurance" plan! It costs $1, has a deductible of $6x1042, and can only be purchased by people who haven't seen* a doctor since 1994.
* Literally seen a doctor, i.e. had one in your field of vision
posted by 0xFCAF at 1:45 PM on June 26, 2017 [20 favorites]
* Literally seen a doctor, i.e. had one in your field of vision
posted by 0xFCAF at 1:45 PM on June 26, 2017 [20 favorites]
> Right now the middle class is angry, and if the Dems wanted, they could clean up by offering to expand the safety net upwards. But there's a lot of resistance to that because it would also help the "white working class" - but wouldn't it be better to offer them tangible help rather than scapegoats?
So the way I've been thinking about it, I started out as a socialist, corb started out as a conservative, and we're gradually meeting at the obvious rational moderate middle ground between those two positions: anarchosyndicalism.
but comments like this screw up the convergence plan.
the better way to make these comments is to always speak in terms of agents rather than actions: if "there's a lot of resistance to that because it would also help the [phrase I refuse to use; it's deployed by the right wing to redirect working-class resistance by repackaging it in racialized/ethnonationalist terms]", don't just talk about "a lot of resistance" in the abstract. instead, talk about who is resisting, why they're resisting, and how. If you say "liberals in the democratic party leadership oppose expanding the social safety net upward because they're invested in suppressing workers and fear a populist/leftist uprising dislodging them from their positions of power within the Democratic Party," there's a conversation there. That's not exactly my position, and I don't think it's exactly right (it's a little too schematic), but there's a conversation.
There is, though, no possible conversation if we stick to the passive voice; in order to have an exchange of ideas, we need to know who is behaving a particular way, why they're behaving that way, and how they're acting to make their ideas real. otherwise we're just throwing rhetorical bombs back and forth at each other.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:45 PM on June 26, 2017 [14 favorites]
So the way I've been thinking about it, I started out as a socialist, corb started out as a conservative, and we're gradually meeting at the obvious rational moderate middle ground between those two positions: anarchosyndicalism.
but comments like this screw up the convergence plan.
the better way to make these comments is to always speak in terms of agents rather than actions: if "there's a lot of resistance to that because it would also help the [phrase I refuse to use; it's deployed by the right wing to redirect working-class resistance by repackaging it in racialized/ethnonationalist terms]", don't just talk about "a lot of resistance" in the abstract. instead, talk about who is resisting, why they're resisting, and how. If you say "liberals in the democratic party leadership oppose expanding the social safety net upward because they're invested in suppressing workers and fear a populist/leftist uprising dislodging them from their positions of power within the Democratic Party," there's a conversation there. That's not exactly my position, and I don't think it's exactly right (it's a little too schematic), but there's a conversation.
There is, though, no possible conversation if we stick to the passive voice; in order to have an exchange of ideas, we need to know who is behaving a particular way, why they're behaving that way, and how they're acting to make their ideas real. otherwise we're just throwing rhetorical bombs back and forth at each other.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:45 PM on June 26, 2017 [14 favorites]
To put 15 million people into context, that's 3 million more people than the entire population of the state of Pennsylvania. Or the population of New Jersey and Wisconsin together.
Or, if you want to go with smaller states/areas, just a little more than the entire populations of the following, combined, per numbers from Wiki/the Census Bureau for 2016:
West Virginia
Idaho
Hawaii
New Hampshire
Maine
Rhode Island
Montana
Delaware
South Dakota
North Dakota
Alaska
District of Columbia
Vermont
Wyoming
Every single person in those states and the District of Columbia. Without health insurance next year.
Fuck the BCRA.
posted by joyceanmachine at 1:46 PM on June 26, 2017 [37 favorites]
Or, if you want to go with smaller states/areas, just a little more than the entire populations of the following, combined, per numbers from Wiki/the Census Bureau for 2016:
West Virginia
Idaho
Hawaii
New Hampshire
Maine
Rhode Island
Montana
Delaware
South Dakota
North Dakota
Alaska
District of Columbia
Vermont
Wyoming
Every single person in those states and the District of Columbia. Without health insurance next year.
Fuck the BCRA.
posted by joyceanmachine at 1:46 PM on June 26, 2017 [37 favorites]
Paul Ryan's never held down a real job in his life. He might actually be that detached from reality.
posted by orrnyereg at 1:46 PM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by orrnyereg at 1:46 PM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
We've got everything but an actual audio file of Putin saying "I'm Vlad Putin and I have personally ordered Russian intelligence to help Trump win the 216 election."
I'm still waiting for him to come out with "I've just discovered that rogue Russian agents were responsible for hacking the 2016 U.S. election and illegitimately installed Trump as President. We are shocked, and will deal with them harshly" followed by falling around the room laughing.
posted by bongo_x at 1:47 PM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm still waiting for him to come out with "I've just discovered that rogue Russian agents were responsible for hacking the 2016 U.S. election and illegitimately installed Trump as President. We are shocked, and will deal with them harshly" followed by falling around the room laughing.
posted by bongo_x at 1:47 PM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
Senator Markey just tweeted an interesting Game of Thrones take on Trumpcare.
#TRUMPCAREISHERE
(Further evidence that we live in a strange, strange world.)
posted by diogenes at 1:48 PM on June 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
#TRUMPCAREISHERE
(Further evidence that we live in a strange, strange world.)
posted by diogenes at 1:48 PM on June 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
... this legislation would prevent federal funds from being made available to an entity (including its
affiliates, subsidiaries, successors, and clinics) if it is:
• A nonprofit organization described in section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue
Code and exempt from tax under section 501(a) of the code;
• An essential community provider that is primarily engaged in providing family
planning and reproductive health services and related medical care;
33
• An entity that provides abortions—except in instances in which the pregnancy is
the result of an act of rape or incest or the woman’s life is in danger; and
• An entity that had expenditures under the Medicaid program that (when combined
with the expenditures of its affiliates, subsidiaries, successors, and clinics)
exceeded $350 million in fiscal year 2014.
CBO expects that the prohibition, as phrased, would apply only if at least one entity,
affiliate, subsidiary, successor, or clinic satisfied the first three criteria. CBO identified
only one organization that would be affected: Planned Parenthood Federation of America
and its affiliates and clinics.4
posted by H. Roark at 1:49 PM on June 26, 2017 [33 favorites]
affiliates, subsidiaries, successors, and clinics) if it is:
• A nonprofit organization described in section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue
Code and exempt from tax under section 501(a) of the code;
• An essential community provider that is primarily engaged in providing family
planning and reproductive health services and related medical care;
33
• An entity that provides abortions—except in instances in which the pregnancy is
the result of an act of rape or incest or the woman’s life is in danger; and
• An entity that had expenditures under the Medicaid program that (when combined
with the expenditures of its affiliates, subsidiaries, successors, and clinics)
exceeded $350 million in fiscal year 2014.
CBO expects that the prohibition, as phrased, would apply only if at least one entity,
affiliate, subsidiary, successor, or clinic satisfied the first three criteria. CBO identified
only one organization that would be affected: Planned Parenthood Federation of America
and its affiliates and clinics.4
posted by H. Roark at 1:49 PM on June 26, 2017 [33 favorites]
I think causing suffering is the plan. The line about Republicans used to be that they liked to say government doesn't work, get elected and then enact policies that made that a self-fulfilling prophecy. Now they're moving on to creating a state of affairs where they can say society doesn't work.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:49 PM on June 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:49 PM on June 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
So the original score of the House bill was what 26M? Then down to 23M, and now still 22M?
Look, if you've made three major revisions to your plan, and it's still shit, then you have a shit plan. I think Repubs should be hammered on the fact that, working within the framework of this bill, they have completely failed to improve health care.
posted by Room 101 at 1:50 PM on June 26, 2017 [8 favorites]
Look, if you've made three major revisions to your plan, and it's still shit, then you have a shit plan. I think Repubs should be hammered on the fact that, working within the framework of this bill, they have completely failed to improve health care.
posted by Room 101 at 1:50 PM on June 26, 2017 [8 favorites]
@MEPFuller:
Biggest losers in the Senate bill seem to be 64-year-olds with Silver plans, making around $56,800.
Premiums jump from $6,800 to $20,500.
So, almost exactly the situation of my Trump-voting in-laws, fortunately my father-in-law made it to 65 so he's on Medicare now and the MIL will be there in a few months.
headdesking forever over here in my insurance assister office
yes, I already did the drunken holiday rant with them so we can go ahead and scratch that off the list of strategies to convert the white working class to social democracy
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:52 PM on June 26, 2017 [14 favorites]
Biggest losers in the Senate bill seem to be 64-year-olds with Silver plans, making around $56,800.
Premiums jump from $6,800 to $20,500.
So, almost exactly the situation of my Trump-voting in-laws, fortunately my father-in-law made it to 65 so he's on Medicare now and the MIL will be there in a few months.
headdesking forever over here in my insurance assister office
yes, I already did the drunken holiday rant with them so we can go ahead and scratch that off the list of strategies to convert the white working class to social democracy
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:52 PM on June 26, 2017 [14 favorites]
So the way I've been thinking about it, I started out as a socialist, corb started out as a conservative, and we're gradually meeting at the obvious rational moderate middle ground between those two positions: anarchosyndicalism.
I love you both madly, btw.
Also, for the Politics Thread Podcast Club (which I just now made up because out of the 31 podcasts I subscribe to, 9 are explicitly Trump-focused and another 3 are current-US-politics-focused which is Trump like 98% of the time), I was just listening to the Love + Radio episode The Silver Dollar and its follow-up How to Argue, both about Daryl Davis the black dude whose hobby is befriending and deradicalizing white supremacists. That is some radical shit right there and I simultaneously want to learn how to do that and also curl into a pillbug shape even thinking about talking to people the way he does.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:54 PM on June 26, 2017 [13 favorites]
I love you both madly, btw.
Also, for the Politics Thread Podcast Club (which I just now made up because out of the 31 podcasts I subscribe to, 9 are explicitly Trump-focused and another 3 are current-US-politics-focused which is Trump like 98% of the time), I was just listening to the Love + Radio episode The Silver Dollar and its follow-up How to Argue, both about Daryl Davis the black dude whose hobby is befriending and deradicalizing white supremacists. That is some radical shit right there and I simultaneously want to learn how to do that and also curl into a pillbug shape even thinking about talking to people the way he does.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:54 PM on June 26, 2017 [13 favorites]
can we just get to part with the (literal) pitchforks and torches already for crying out loud
posted by entropicamericana at 1:55 PM on June 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 1:55 PM on June 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
Paul Ryan has a ticket printed for his helicopter ride to Galt's Gulch when the shit hits the fan. He's one of those kids that never left debate class and still thinks Objectivism is a philosophy.
posted by benzenedream at 1:56 PM on June 26, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by benzenedream at 1:56 PM on June 26, 2017 [17 favorites]
Some quick takeaways:
Budget effects—total savings of $321 billion over 10 years. That's $541 billion in tax cuts and $210 billion in penalty cuts (for eliminating the individual and employer mandates) offset by $772 billion in Medicaid cuts (26% of the Medicaid program) and $408 billion in reduced tax credits on the individual market. In total, $1.1 trillion over 10 years is being cut from the health care system.
Premiums—Premiums for a benchmark plan forecast to go up 20% for next year than under current law, 10% higher than under current law in 2019, then decreasing starting in 2020 as states step in to reduce benefits or spend more money to reduce costs. The plans would be cheaper because they'd pay for less health care, and deductibles would rise. "Premiums for a plan with an actuarial value of 58 percent are lower than they are for a plan with an actuarial value of 70 percent (the value for the reference plan under current law) largely because the insurance pays for a smaller average share of health care costs." Some people would see large increases in out of pocket expenses such that they'll pay more in total even if premiums decline.
Low-income people won't buy plans because good plans will cost too much of their income, while cheap plans will have deductibles that are significant percentages of their income (and the cost sharing reduction subsidies are gone). Either way, they're not buying.
A 64-year-old making $57K gets screwed: "Premiums jump from $6,800 to $20,500." Conveniently enough, someone making a $1 million a year will get a tax cut by about the same amount.
One important note, which I'm sure we'll be hearing from Republicans soon enough, is that a chuck of the reduction in the individual market is because the individual mandate is gone. The GOP will say "see, people get a choice and they choose not to buy it." Which completely ignores what I just said above about plans being worthless to lower-income people because of the combination of unafforable premiums and high deductibles.
In short: Take a trillion dollars away from health care; use it to cut taxes for rich people and reduce the deficit. Folks not eligible for Medicaid could buy plans, and some of those plans would be somewhat cheaper for healthy people in the future, but will cost you far more if you get sick and actually need to use your plan. Oh, and it will raise premiums massively for the next two years.
posted by zachlipton at 1:57 PM on June 26, 2017 [36 favorites]
Budget effects—total savings of $321 billion over 10 years. That's $541 billion in tax cuts and $210 billion in penalty cuts (for eliminating the individual and employer mandates) offset by $772 billion in Medicaid cuts (26% of the Medicaid program) and $408 billion in reduced tax credits on the individual market. In total, $1.1 trillion over 10 years is being cut from the health care system.
Premiums—Premiums for a benchmark plan forecast to go up 20% for next year than under current law, 10% higher than under current law in 2019, then decreasing starting in 2020 as states step in to reduce benefits or spend more money to reduce costs. The plans would be cheaper because they'd pay for less health care, and deductibles would rise. "Premiums for a plan with an actuarial value of 58 percent are lower than they are for a plan with an actuarial value of 70 percent (the value for the reference plan under current law) largely because the insurance pays for a smaller average share of health care costs." Some people would see large increases in out of pocket expenses such that they'll pay more in total even if premiums decline.
Low-income people won't buy plans because good plans will cost too much of their income, while cheap plans will have deductibles that are significant percentages of their income (and the cost sharing reduction subsidies are gone). Either way, they're not buying.
A 64-year-old making $57K gets screwed: "Premiums jump from $6,800 to $20,500." Conveniently enough, someone making a $1 million a year will get a tax cut by about the same amount.
One important note, which I'm sure we'll be hearing from Republicans soon enough, is that a chuck of the reduction in the individual market is because the individual mandate is gone. The GOP will say "see, people get a choice and they choose not to buy it." Which completely ignores what I just said above about plans being worthless to lower-income people because of the combination of unafforable premiums and high deductibles.
In short: Take a trillion dollars away from health care; use it to cut taxes for rich people and reduce the deficit. Folks not eligible for Medicaid could buy plans, and some of those plans would be somewhat cheaper for healthy people in the future, but will cost you far more if you get sick and actually need to use your plan. Oh, and it will raise premiums massively for the next two years.
posted by zachlipton at 1:57 PM on June 26, 2017 [36 favorites]
We need an analysis (or a summary of an analysis should one exist) that tells us how much healthcare overall will cost for the average person in a given demographic. Even if young healthy people will see modest savings on insurance premiums compared to current law, how does their overall healthcare spending stack up?
posted by TwoWordReview at 1:58 PM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by TwoWordReview at 1:58 PM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Where's the BOOM! already?
Where's the kaboom? There was supposed to be an earth-shattering kaboom!
Can we not do this every time that one guy on twitter performs his schtick?
posted by thelonius at 1:58 PM on June 26, 2017 [12 favorites]
Where's the kaboom? There was supposed to be an earth-shattering kaboom!
Can we not do this every time that one guy on twitter performs his schtick?
posted by thelonius at 1:58 PM on June 26, 2017 [12 favorites]
> f you say "liberals in the democratic party leadership oppose expanding the social safety net upward because they're invested in suppressing workers and fear a populist/leftist uprising dislodging them from their positions of power within the Democratic Party," there's a conversation there.
What does "upward" mean, specifically? There are plenty of income redistribution programs that benefit the middle class, working class, or whatever else you want to call people who aren't technically living in or near poverty but still aren't comfortable. Not many people think of the home mortgage interest deduction or agricultural subsidies as part of the "safety net", but they're programs that take money from some to give that money to someone else, and therefore change how wealth is distributed just like food stamps and Medicaid do.
If we want to have this conversation, we need to be precise about what forms of support already exist for the people who Democrats have without a shred of evidence been accused of not wanting to help. Then we can talk about what programs Democrats support and what income levels / geographic regions / etc. those programs are aimed at. We can't do it if someone is allowed to label an entire political party as disinterested in helping people when any attempts to help them (I can think of one that's in the news today that helps people between 133% and 400% of the federal poverty line!) are undermined by the other party.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:59 PM on June 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
What does "upward" mean, specifically? There are plenty of income redistribution programs that benefit the middle class, working class, or whatever else you want to call people who aren't technically living in or near poverty but still aren't comfortable. Not many people think of the home mortgage interest deduction or agricultural subsidies as part of the "safety net", but they're programs that take money from some to give that money to someone else, and therefore change how wealth is distributed just like food stamps and Medicaid do.
If we want to have this conversation, we need to be precise about what forms of support already exist for the people who Democrats have without a shred of evidence been accused of not wanting to help. Then we can talk about what programs Democrats support and what income levels / geographic regions / etc. those programs are aimed at. We can't do it if someone is allowed to label an entire political party as disinterested in helping people when any attempts to help them (I can think of one that's in the news today that helps people between 133% and 400% of the federal poverty line!) are undermined by the other party.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:59 PM on June 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
I am never traveling again if they start checking the books.
Old people will be thrown out of nursing homes. If they don't have families, where will they go...homeless shelters? The street? People's children will die from lack of access to care. Disabled people will die from lack of access to care. Will that horror be enough to wake up my fellow Americans? Do we really have to go through that horror for that to happen?
I am guessing we'll have tons of suicide.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:00 PM on June 26, 2017 [13 favorites]
Old people will be thrown out of nursing homes. If they don't have families, where will they go...homeless shelters? The street? People's children will die from lack of access to care. Disabled people will die from lack of access to care. Will that horror be enough to wake up my fellow Americans? Do we really have to go through that horror for that to happen?
I am guessing we'll have tons of suicide.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:00 PM on June 26, 2017 [13 favorites]
don't just talk about "a lot of resistance" in the abstract. instead, talk about who is resisting, why they're resisting, and how.
YCTAB is as often is the case, totally correct, and I apologize.
My perception has been that there has been a convergence of resistance to helping the chunk of the middle class that's holding the most anger - largely property owners or aspirational property owners who have bought into the 1950s era American Dream and are having a hard time with it being smashed. Those people are often white because of the intergenerational nature of wealth and expectations of ownership, and though they self-define as working class due to hundred-year-old understandings of labor, are often also defined as middle class.
Where I see a lot of the resistance originating is: with younger voters and other groups that always knew the American Dream wasn't for them and have little sympathy for that illusion, with hard leftists that have issues with property, and with tech-savvy urbanite white liberals who define themselves as middle class but more properly could be considered as upper middle class at best, who don't actually have financial problems with buying houses or living their lives and whose politics are largely essentially reactionism+social liberalism which would be centrism if not for the intransigence of the Right.
posted by corb at 2:01 PM on June 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
YCTAB is as often is the case, totally correct, and I apologize.
My perception has been that there has been a convergence of resistance to helping the chunk of the middle class that's holding the most anger - largely property owners or aspirational property owners who have bought into the 1950s era American Dream and are having a hard time with it being smashed. Those people are often white because of the intergenerational nature of wealth and expectations of ownership, and though they self-define as working class due to hundred-year-old understandings of labor, are often also defined as middle class.
Where I see a lot of the resistance originating is: with younger voters and other groups that always knew the American Dream wasn't for them and have little sympathy for that illusion, with hard leftists that have issues with property, and with tech-savvy urbanite white liberals who define themselves as middle class but more properly could be considered as upper middle class at best, who don't actually have financial problems with buying houses or living their lives and whose politics are largely essentially reactionism+social liberalism which would be centrism if not for the intransigence of the Right.
posted by corb at 2:01 PM on June 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
Right now the middle class is angry, and if the Dems wanted, they could clean up by offering to expand the safety net upwards. But there's a lot of resistance to that because it would also help the "white working class" - but wouldn't it be better to offer them tangible help rather than scapegoats?
That's not what is happening, though - nobody on the left is against expanding the safety net because it would benefit the white working class. The resistance is coming from the white working class, because they don't just want to expand the safety net, but to go back to the old social order, where the underclass knew where they were. And no, we can't offer that, because that is morally horrific.
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:02 PM on June 26, 2017 [41 favorites]
That's not what is happening, though - nobody on the left is against expanding the safety net because it would benefit the white working class. The resistance is coming from the white working class, because they don't just want to expand the safety net, but to go back to the old social order, where the underclass knew where they were. And no, we can't offer that, because that is morally horrific.
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:02 PM on June 26, 2017 [41 favorites]
'It wouldn't be an 'individual' decision -- it would jeopardize the entire WH press corps. I don't have that right.'
Everyone is just starting to get used to not having rights, I guess.
posted by rc3spencer at 2:05 PM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
Everyone is just starting to get used to not having rights, I guess.
posted by rc3spencer at 2:05 PM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
My perception has been that there has been a convergence of resistance to helping the chunk of the middle class that's holding the most anger - largely property owners or aspirational property owners who have bought into the 1950s era American Dream and are having a hard time with it being smashed. Those people are often white because of the intergenerational nature of wealth and expectations of ownership, and though they self-define as working class due to hundred-year-old understandings of labor, are often also defined as middle class.
The "resistance" isn't to helping them, but to their demand that we help them by propping up their beliefs.
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:06 PM on June 26, 2017 [16 favorites]
The "resistance" isn't to helping them, but to their demand that we help them by propping up their beliefs.
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:06 PM on June 26, 2017 [16 favorites]
Every time I see "BCRA" my brain reorders it to "BRCA" and I'm just like, damn, why are these guys naming their bill after a gene that causes breast cancer it probably won't cover?
My brain (quite reasonably) wants to pronounce it as "bikra" which of course rhymes with RCRA, and then I get sad thinking about how much better that law is.
posted by nickmark at 2:07 PM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
My brain (quite reasonably) wants to pronounce it as "bikra" which of course rhymes with RCRA, and then I get sad thinking about how much better that law is.
posted by nickmark at 2:07 PM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
with hard leftists that have issues with property
That isn't a Democratic faction that exists in any meaningful way. When is that last time you saw a Democrat running for office on a "down with private property" platform?
posted by diogenes at 2:08 PM on June 26, 2017 [28 favorites]
That isn't a Democratic faction that exists in any meaningful way. When is that last time you saw a Democrat running for office on a "down with private property" platform?
posted by diogenes at 2:08 PM on June 26, 2017 [28 favorites]
OnceUponATime Though the specifically rural white working class, I think, needs more help than we've been offering, to actually keep their communities from disappearing.
I think part of the problem is that, even without the ideological hatred they have for meaningful help, it's simply not possible to prevent a great many communities from disappearing. That's not an especially nice thing to say, and I'll admit that a small rural community is a close approximation of my own personal version of hell so I'm not exactly enthused here, but I'm a believer in people living how they want to and helping them to do so if possible even if it's a lifestyle that repulses me to the core of my being.
But I don't think it's possible.
Over the weekend, for family reasons, I had to drive through sixteen hours of rural Texas. I passed through (stops, checks google maps, counts) 11 dying rural towns with a population under 1,000 (most under 500). Many didn't even have a gas station in town. Some had no visible business at all, not even a forlorn effort at trying to grab some money from passing travelers. Possibly they simply existed as a cluster of houses for nearby farmers or ranchers?
Point is, they were dying for a simple reason: no one wanted to live there.
Possibly, maybe, with a livable Universal Basic Income such places could survive with the residents making their own commerce and occasionally selling bespoke handcrafted stuff to passerby.
But if the survival of the town requires a viable economy, I'm not seeing how it's possible even with the most generous assistance imaginable.
Rural small towns are dying because that's how the economy has shaken out. Most people wanted to leave, and those who didn't just weren't sufficient to sustain the economy of the town on their own. That's unfortunate for people who want to live there, and I truly do have sympathy for them.
In theory some people who liked the idea of small town life could consolidate their dying small towns into a smaller number of somewhat larger towns, but in practice I doubt that will happen as it's the local ties that are (so I have been told) a huge part of why they want to live in a small town.
I think the reason the Democrats don't have a workable plan for saving dying small towns is not due to failure on the part of Democrats to invent a plan, or Democrats having hostility towards small towns, but because their collapse is unavoidable.
posted by sotonohito at 2:10 PM on June 26, 2017 [49 favorites]
I think part of the problem is that, even without the ideological hatred they have for meaningful help, it's simply not possible to prevent a great many communities from disappearing. That's not an especially nice thing to say, and I'll admit that a small rural community is a close approximation of my own personal version of hell so I'm not exactly enthused here, but I'm a believer in people living how they want to and helping them to do so if possible even if it's a lifestyle that repulses me to the core of my being.
But I don't think it's possible.
Over the weekend, for family reasons, I had to drive through sixteen hours of rural Texas. I passed through (stops, checks google maps, counts) 11 dying rural towns with a population under 1,000 (most under 500). Many didn't even have a gas station in town. Some had no visible business at all, not even a forlorn effort at trying to grab some money from passing travelers. Possibly they simply existed as a cluster of houses for nearby farmers or ranchers?
Point is, they were dying for a simple reason: no one wanted to live there.
Possibly, maybe, with a livable Universal Basic Income such places could survive with the residents making their own commerce and occasionally selling bespoke handcrafted stuff to passerby.
But if the survival of the town requires a viable economy, I'm not seeing how it's possible even with the most generous assistance imaginable.
Rural small towns are dying because that's how the economy has shaken out. Most people wanted to leave, and those who didn't just weren't sufficient to sustain the economy of the town on their own. That's unfortunate for people who want to live there, and I truly do have sympathy for them.
In theory some people who liked the idea of small town life could consolidate their dying small towns into a smaller number of somewhat larger towns, but in practice I doubt that will happen as it's the local ties that are (so I have been told) a huge part of why they want to live in a small town.
I think the reason the Democrats don't have a workable plan for saving dying small towns is not due to failure on the part of Democrats to invent a plan, or Democrats having hostility towards small towns, but because their collapse is unavoidable.
posted by sotonohito at 2:10 PM on June 26, 2017 [49 favorites]
Looks like the camera issue is escalating. CNN Reporter Just Took On Sean Spicer In Off-Camera Shouting Match [Audio]. No cameras got turned on though.
posted by scalefree at 2:14 PM on June 26, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 2:14 PM on June 26, 2017 [20 favorites]
My perception has been that there has been a convergence of resistance to helping the chunk of the middle class that's holding the most anger - largely property owners or aspirational property owners who have bought into the 1950s era American Dream and are having a hard time with it being smashed.
On the contrary, one of the proposals Democrats were kicking around to tweak the ACA was to expand the premium subsidies to higher incomes, because it was possible to be in a situation where families in high cost areas were doing comparatively well and didn't qualify for subsidies, but still had premiums that were fairly unaffordable. That was killed, and the Republicans are changing it to reduce the subsidies to cover fewer people in the middle class.
As an example, take a 60 year old couple in an expensive city or an expensive state like Alaska that makes a combined $67,000/year and doesn't have an employer-sponsored plan. They don't qualify for a subsidy, and would pay, depending on where they live, 15-30%+ of their income on premiums for a silver plan. That's a lot (they wouldn't have to pay the penalty if they went uninsured, because the premiums are too high in relation to the income), but that couple was also screwed before the ACA, and they benefit from guaranteed issue, no pre-existing condition exclusion, no lifetime limits, etc...
posted by zachlipton at 2:15 PM on June 26, 2017 [12 favorites]
On the contrary, one of the proposals Democrats were kicking around to tweak the ACA was to expand the premium subsidies to higher incomes, because it was possible to be in a situation where families in high cost areas were doing comparatively well and didn't qualify for subsidies, but still had premiums that were fairly unaffordable. That was killed, and the Republicans are changing it to reduce the subsidies to cover fewer people in the middle class.
As an example, take a 60 year old couple in an expensive city or an expensive state like Alaska that makes a combined $67,000/year and doesn't have an employer-sponsored plan. They don't qualify for a subsidy, and would pay, depending on where they live, 15-30%+ of their income on premiums for a silver plan. That's a lot (they wouldn't have to pay the penalty if they went uninsured, because the premiums are too high in relation to the income), but that couple was also screwed before the ACA, and they benefit from guaranteed issue, no pre-existing condition exclusion, no lifetime limits, etc...
posted by zachlipton at 2:15 PM on June 26, 2017 [12 favorites]
CBO: Senate health bill doesn’t help the poor in non-Medicaid states
The Senate’s health bill, while drastically cutting Medicaid, does address this “Medicaid gap” issue by making subsidies available all the way down the income chain. Texas-based journalist Erica Grieder argues this makes the bill a good deal for low-income people in those states. [...]posted by tonycpsu at 2:15 PM on June 26, 2017 [15 favorites]
The reality is not so clear. According to the Congressional Budget Office score of the plan, “despite being eligible for premium tax credits, few low-income people would purchase any plan,” because the plans available are essentially useless to the poor.
Many patients using ACA exchange plans complained that they had deductibles so high that the insurance was hardly worth using. The law did, however, attempt to address that by offering special additional subsidies to limit out-of-pocket costs to the lowest-income patients. It also required insurance companies to cover preventive medicine with no copayment or deductible. The Senate bill changes all of this, and creates a situation where even with subsidy, a typical person poor enough to qualify for Medicaid is probably worse off buying insurance.
That's not what is happening, though - nobody on the left is against expanding the safety net because it would benefit the white working class. The resistance is coming from the white working class, because they don't just want to expand the safety net, but to go back to the old social order, where the underclass knew where they were. And no, we can't offer that, because that is morally horrific.
The white working class is totally down with expanding the social safety net. Even the middle and lower middle white collar class is cool with this. Every poll shows this. The middle and middle class business owner class? Not so much.
posted by srboisvert at 2:16 PM on June 26, 2017 [24 favorites]
The white working class is totally down with expanding the social safety net. Even the middle and lower middle white collar class is cool with this. Every poll shows this. The middle and middle class business owner class? Not so much.
posted by srboisvert at 2:16 PM on June 26, 2017 [24 favorites]
Per curiam decisions are unanimous, so he wasn't wrong in that regard.
No, that's not true. For example, Bush v. Gore was per curiam. It certainly wasn't unanimous. And there were written dissents.
You really don't know what the vote was for in the Trump case since it is unsigned. One might guess it was unanimous because no one bothered to write a dissent, but there is not way to really know. Trump's 9-O tweet is yet another lie.
posted by JackFlash at 2:17 PM on June 26, 2017 [9 favorites]
No, that's not true. For example, Bush v. Gore was per curiam. It certainly wasn't unanimous. And there were written dissents.
You really don't know what the vote was for in the Trump case since it is unsigned. One might guess it was unanimous because no one bothered to write a dissent, but there is not way to really know. Trump's 9-O tweet is yet another lie.
posted by JackFlash at 2:17 PM on June 26, 2017 [9 favorites]
The white working class is totally down with expanding the social safety net
... right up until the point they find out that black people are getting benefits too.
posted by 0xFCAF at 2:19 PM on June 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
... right up until the point they find out that black people are getting benefits too.
posted by 0xFCAF at 2:19 PM on June 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
Per curiam just means that the opinion is unsigned and gets treated as having been written by the court (or at least, the majority) as a unit.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:19 PM on June 26, 2017
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:19 PM on June 26, 2017
There's plenty of ideas for helping out rural communities. You know a first world country that has a shitload of viable small towns? Germany. Building out highspeed rail infrastructure to reduce the handicap of physical sprawl and extend network effects of the cities out further. Same thing even more so for high speed internet connectivity. Serious investment in trades, with subsidized schools and internship/journeyman tracks. Yes, job retraining programs for internet connected jobs. Generous business creation subsidies. ACTUALLY ENFORCING ANTITRUST LAWS to make business creation viable against national monopolies like Comcast and Amazon.
There are things to help rural America transition into the 21st century. The problem is not a lack of ideas per se, it's that ideas cost money and Republican politicians and propaganda that have spent 50 years demonizing spending money to solve any problem. Now we're at the point that people in dying communities are vehemently opposed to the movement spending money on saving their way of life.
I have thoughts on whether we should care about those people when they've made that choice for themselves, but I've been told we can't win the Senate expressing those thoughts out loud.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:21 PM on June 26, 2017 [51 favorites]
There are things to help rural America transition into the 21st century. The problem is not a lack of ideas per se, it's that ideas cost money and Republican politicians and propaganda that have spent 50 years demonizing spending money to solve any problem. Now we're at the point that people in dying communities are vehemently opposed to the movement spending money on saving their way of life.
I have thoughts on whether we should care about those people when they've made that choice for themselves, but I've been told we can't win the Senate expressing those thoughts out loud.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:21 PM on June 26, 2017 [51 favorites]
their collapse is unavoidable
Maybe so, but the last people left in those towns have disproportionate voting power, and the Republicans aren't telling them to abandon all hope. The Republicans are promising to bring resource extraction and manufacturing jobs back (from Mexico and from illegal immigrants -- so goes the narrative) and strengthen churches and basically turn back the clock to when those towns were thriving.
And that, in a nutshell, is how we got here. Republicans promised to save those towns. Democrats said "Sorry, can't." People in or recently departed from those towns voted for Republicans, and the constitution amplified those votes to the point where that minority (combined with the even smaller minorities of the super wealthy and the ultra religious) gained control nearly every lever of government despite being a minority.
For better or worse, their votes count more than ours on a per capita basis. In the House, in the Electoral College, and especially in the Senate. We have to help them, or they may just destroy our whole system.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:22 PM on June 26, 2017 [9 favorites]
Maybe so, but the last people left in those towns have disproportionate voting power, and the Republicans aren't telling them to abandon all hope. The Republicans are promising to bring resource extraction and manufacturing jobs back (from Mexico and from illegal immigrants -- so goes the narrative) and strengthen churches and basically turn back the clock to when those towns were thriving.
And that, in a nutshell, is how we got here. Republicans promised to save those towns. Democrats said "Sorry, can't." People in or recently departed from those towns voted for Republicans, and the constitution amplified those votes to the point where that minority (combined with the even smaller minorities of the super wealthy and the ultra religious) gained control nearly every lever of government despite being a minority.
For better or worse, their votes count more than ours on a per capita basis. In the House, in the Electoral College, and especially in the Senate. We have to help them, or they may just destroy our whole system.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:22 PM on June 26, 2017 [9 favorites]
FBI has questioned Trump campaign adviser Carter Page at length in Russia probe: Over a series of five meetings in March, totaling about 10 hours of questioning, Page repeatedly denied wrongdoing when asked about allegations that he may have acted as a kind of go-between for Russia and the Trump campaign, according to a person familiar with Page’s account.
...
Because it is against the law for an individual to lie to FBI agents about a material issue under investigation, many lawyers recommend their clients not sit for interviews with the bureau without a lawyer present. Page said he spoke without a lawyer and wasn’t concerned about the risks because he told the truth.
This dude is an idiot.
posted by PenDevil at 2:23 PM on June 26, 2017 [40 favorites]
...
Because it is against the law for an individual to lie to FBI agents about a material issue under investigation, many lawyers recommend their clients not sit for interviews with the bureau without a lawyer present. Page said he spoke without a lawyer and wasn’t concerned about the risks because he told the truth.
This dude is an idiot.
posted by PenDevil at 2:23 PM on June 26, 2017 [40 favorites]
Every time I see "BCRA" my brain reorders it to "BRCA" and I'm just like, damn, why are these guys naming their bill after a gene that causes breast cancer it probably won't cover?
Even worse, there already was a BCRA -- The Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act, aka McCain/Feingold. The silly thing whose overreach brought us Citizens United.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:23 PM on June 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
Even worse, there already was a BCRA -- The Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act, aka McCain/Feingold. The silly thing whose overreach brought us Citizens United.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:23 PM on June 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
> But if the survival of the town requires a viable economy, I'm not seeing how it's possible even with the most generous assistance imaginable. [...]
I think the reason the Democrats don't have a workable plan for saving dying small towns is not due to failure on the part of Democrats to invent a plan, or Democrats having hostility towards small towns, but because their collapse is unavoidable.
Correct. The collapse of small towns is inevitable provided the market rules. Non-liberal non-market measures can keep small towns alive.
Basically we need to implement measures that keep money in small towns — strengthen unions and raise minimum wages so that people living in small towns have money to spend, set floors on prices so that multinationals can't leverage economies of scale to crush small businessowners, etc. Under pure market rules the largest players will always be able to bigfoot smaller players out of the market, and because the largest players are incentivized to locate their offices in big cities, this results in small towns starving to death while the big cities end up with too much money pouring into them, which itself causes severe problems for everyone not directly hooked into the money firehose. (see: the Bay Area housing market, the NYC housing market, the Seattle housing market, the Boston housing market, and so on and so on).
Because the leadership of the Democratic Party is ideologically invested in maintaining a market economy rather than a democratic economy, and because they're materially dependent on money from the folks making bank on the market's severe inequalities, they cannot currently be expected to do what's needed.
I am a naïve optimist and believe that it's possible to depose the Democratic Party leadership and then use the party's brand and institutional apparatuses for good causes. this naïve optimism puts me on the right fringe of my social group, though.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:26 PM on June 26, 2017 [23 favorites]
I think the reason the Democrats don't have a workable plan for saving dying small towns is not due to failure on the part of Democrats to invent a plan, or Democrats having hostility towards small towns, but because their collapse is unavoidable.
Correct. The collapse of small towns is inevitable provided the market rules. Non-liberal non-market measures can keep small towns alive.
Basically we need to implement measures that keep money in small towns — strengthen unions and raise minimum wages so that people living in small towns have money to spend, set floors on prices so that multinationals can't leverage economies of scale to crush small businessowners, etc. Under pure market rules the largest players will always be able to bigfoot smaller players out of the market, and because the largest players are incentivized to locate their offices in big cities, this results in small towns starving to death while the big cities end up with too much money pouring into them, which itself causes severe problems for everyone not directly hooked into the money firehose. (see: the Bay Area housing market, the NYC housing market, the Seattle housing market, the Boston housing market, and so on and so on).
Because the leadership of the Democratic Party is ideologically invested in maintaining a market economy rather than a democratic economy, and because they're materially dependent on money from the folks making bank on the market's severe inequalities, they cannot currently be expected to do what's needed.
I am a naïve optimist and believe that it's possible to depose the Democratic Party leadership and then use the party's brand and institutional apparatuses for good causes. this naïve optimism puts me on the right fringe of my social group, though.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:26 PM on June 26, 2017 [23 favorites]
That's Jim Acosta, the only reporter I'm seeing getting outwardly aggro about it. He's getting it from both sides on twitter - people are thanking him for being vocal in the closed press conferences and on CNN and on twitter and other people are like 'TURN THEM ON OR GTFO YOU REIFENSTAHL'
The real cowards in that audio clip are the reporters who wanted their questions about Kushner answered more than Acosta's about the cameras. The entire press corps should unite and only ask questions about why they can't have cameras going until the policy is changed. I can't believe how much they're just sitting down and taking this like as if it were remotely normal.
posted by 0xFCAF at 2:28 PM on June 26, 2017 [42 favorites]
The real cowards in that audio clip are the reporters who wanted their questions about Kushner answered more than Acosta's about the cameras. The entire press corps should unite and only ask questions about why they can't have cameras going until the policy is changed. I can't believe how much they're just sitting down and taking this like as if it were remotely normal.
posted by 0xFCAF at 2:28 PM on June 26, 2017 [42 favorites]
Here's a fun bit in the CBO score. Insurance companies currently have to maintain a medical loss ratio of 80%. In other words, at least 80% of the premiums you (and the government) pay has to go to something generally related to health care. The other 20% can go to administrative costs, a big fat check for the executives, profit, etc... This is an important protection for the marketplace; since federal funds are going to pay for much of this insurance, it requires that the money actually gets spent on health care and constrains premium increases to the rise in health care costs.
BCRA allows states to eliminate that rule. Since subsidized premiums are set by income, insurers can increase premiums and the federal government picks up the tab. So insurance companies in areas without much competition can just declare a 20% price hike, collect their higher premiums from the feds, and take it all as profit.
These kinds of shenanigans nicely explains part of why insurance companies have been largely quiet about the bill.
posted by zachlipton at 2:28 PM on June 26, 2017 [78 favorites]
BCRA allows states to eliminate that rule. Since subsidized premiums are set by income, insurers can increase premiums and the federal government picks up the tab. So insurance companies in areas without much competition can just declare a 20% price hike, collect their higher premiums from the feds, and take it all as profit.
These kinds of shenanigans nicely explains part of why insurance companies have been largely quiet about the bill.
posted by zachlipton at 2:28 PM on June 26, 2017 [78 favorites]
things that were "impossible to shrug off", and yet, people did so
Counterpoint: The Dean Scream
posted by petebest at 2:29 PM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
Counterpoint: The Dean Scream
posted by petebest at 2:29 PM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
I live in a small town. With deecnt public transportation and decent internet, the town can totally stay alive. Obama had some stuff about fixing the rail systems that really helped. We have a lot of young families in my town. However 1/3 of the town also voted for Trump because they are scared, poor and confused.
I have thoughts on whether we should care about those people when they've made that choice for themselves
I avoid this problematic set of thoughts by deciding we should care for everyone.I've seen too many of my neighbors make bad choices for good reasons to think any sort of internet platitude like "You made your choice so..." is anything other than toxic.
posted by jessamyn at 2:30 PM on June 26, 2017 [71 favorites]
I have thoughts on whether we should care about those people when they've made that choice for themselves
I avoid this problematic set of thoughts by deciding we should care for everyone.I've seen too many of my neighbors make bad choices for good reasons to think any sort of internet platitude like "You made your choice so..." is anything other than toxic.
posted by jessamyn at 2:30 PM on June 26, 2017 [71 favorites]
So if all the regular Joes & Josephines are broke, where do the insurance companies and lawyers and rich asswipes think they will be getting more money from?
posted by yoga at 2:31 PM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by yoga at 2:31 PM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
The white working class is totally down with expanding the social safety net. Even the middle and lower middle white collar class is cool with this. Every poll shows this.
The poll that matters is the one on election day. If people say they are okay with gay marriage but then vote overwhelmingly for, say, a ballot measure to ban gay marriage we can reasonably say that they oppose gay marriage regardless of what they tell pollsters. Similarly, if the white working class says they want to expand the social safety net but consistently vote for candidates who say they want to gut the social safety net we can reasonably say they support gutting the social safety net.
posted by Justinian at 2:35 PM on June 26, 2017 [13 favorites]
The poll that matters is the one on election day. If people say they are okay with gay marriage but then vote overwhelmingly for, say, a ballot measure to ban gay marriage we can reasonably say that they oppose gay marriage regardless of what they tell pollsters. Similarly, if the white working class says they want to expand the social safety net but consistently vote for candidates who say they want to gut the social safety net we can reasonably say they support gutting the social safety net.
posted by Justinian at 2:35 PM on June 26, 2017 [13 favorites]
FBI has questioned Trump campaign adviser Carter Page at length in Russia probe
No way they got anything out of him. That guy is a rock.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:36 PM on June 26, 2017 [8 favorites]
I know it's easier said than done, but I agree, mikepop. Why isn't "This administration hates the press WTF?!" a story in itself? How much more insulting to the First Amendment do these people need to be before the press pushes back just on principle?
In this particular instance, "the press" are baby-eating management tools like Jeff Zucker and Sumner Redstone (Ret.). They're not driven by information content, just money and control and since the mainstream press is a de facto monopoly, who cares. They'll still make a ton of money.
posted by petebest at 2:36 PM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
In this particular instance, "the press" are baby-eating management tools like Jeff Zucker and Sumner Redstone (Ret.). They're not driven by information content, just money and control and since the mainstream press is a de facto monopoly, who cares. They'll still make a ton of money.
posted by petebest at 2:36 PM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
No, that's not true. For example, Bush v. Gore was per curiam. It certainly wasn't unanimous. And there were written dissents.
I stand corrected. I should have checked the data first. It looks like in the modern era about 45% of cases decided per curiam had at least one vote in the minority.
posted by jedicus at 2:39 PM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
I stand corrected. I should have checked the data first. It looks like in the modern era about 45% of cases decided per curiam had at least one vote in the minority.
posted by jedicus at 2:39 PM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Why isn't "This administration hates the press WTF?!" a story in itself?
Better framing: why is Trump such a chickenshit?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:39 PM on June 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
Better framing: why is Trump such a chickenshit?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:39 PM on June 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
Given the choice between candidates who offer complicated or tentative solutions to complicated or many-faceted problems, or candidates who promise that everything will work out just fine if we just pretend the laws of physics and economics are exactly in tune with those voters' existing world view and also we'll give all their money to rich people the competition for rural votes has historically not been close. I'm not sure how Democrats win those votes back other than (a) the total collapse of the Republican party that somehow doesn't take American democracy with it; or (b) adopting their own strategy of willful, bald-faced lying.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:40 PM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:40 PM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
Since subsidized premiums are set by income, insurers can increase premiums and the federal government picks up the tab. So insurance companies in areas without much competition can just declare a 20% price hike, collect their higher premiums from the feds, and take it all as profit.
I was just reminded of the digital TV transition period, with those converter boxes for the analog TVs. I think the converters first ran sold for about $30-$50, so the Department of Commerce or whoever gave out vouchers for $40. After a month or so, I seem to have noticed the boxes selling for $70-$90. Ta-da!
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 2:42 PM on June 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
I was just reminded of the digital TV transition period, with those converter boxes for the analog TVs. I think the converters first ran sold for about $30-$50, so the Department of Commerce or whoever gave out vouchers for $40. After a month or so, I seem to have noticed the boxes selling for $70-$90. Ta-da!
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 2:42 PM on June 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
So if all the regular Joes & Josephines are broke, where do the insurance companies and lawyers and rich asswipes think they will be getting more money from?
In my experience when I have asked similar questions to either these folks or folks who theorize for these folks you'll get blank stares and then a jumbled version of 'what are you even talking about you idiot the money isn't going to run out, duh. '
The idea that there is only so much money to get from regular people is not something that even considered to be a problem worth considering. It's like magic!
posted by Jalliah at 2:43 PM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
In my experience when I have asked similar questions to either these folks or folks who theorize for these folks you'll get blank stares and then a jumbled version of 'what are you even talking about you idiot the money isn't going to run out, duh. '
The idea that there is only so much money to get from regular people is not something that even considered to be a problem worth considering. It's like magic!
posted by Jalliah at 2:43 PM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
I can't believe how much they're just sitting down and taking this like as if it were remotely normal.
I have been the only person in a meeting to speak up and call something out as bullshit, while knowing everyone else agrees that it's bullshit, and yet gotten no back-up. In a couple of jobs, actually. The thing is, a lot of people decide that as long as one person is speaking up, the issue is "covered" or "addressed" and then they don't have to do any of the work of being confrontational or whatever. And then they don't have to take any risks.
I should note that at least one time when I did this I was working as a high school teacher on a one-year contract. I was given every assurance that I was the lead candidate for the position as a permanent hire next year "whenever the district lets us make it official." The school then quietly hired someone else for my position without telling me.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:44 PM on June 26, 2017 [27 favorites]
I have been the only person in a meeting to speak up and call something out as bullshit, while knowing everyone else agrees that it's bullshit, and yet gotten no back-up. In a couple of jobs, actually. The thing is, a lot of people decide that as long as one person is speaking up, the issue is "covered" or "addressed" and then they don't have to do any of the work of being confrontational or whatever. And then they don't have to take any risks.
I should note that at least one time when I did this I was working as a high school teacher on a one-year contract. I was given every assurance that I was the lead candidate for the position as a permanent hire next year "whenever the district lets us make it official." The school then quietly hired someone else for my position without telling me.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:44 PM on June 26, 2017 [27 favorites]
No way they got anything out of him. That guy is a rock.
Carter's got friends in every town and village from here to Moscow, he speaks a dozen languages, knows every local custom, he'll blend in, disappear, you'll never see him again. With any luck, he's got the covfefe already.
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:46 PM on June 26, 2017 [53 favorites]
Carter's got friends in every town and village from here to Moscow, he speaks a dozen languages, knows every local custom, he'll blend in, disappear, you'll never see him again. With any luck, he's got the covfefe already.
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:46 PM on June 26, 2017 [53 favorites]
Nah, he got lost in his own museum once.
posted by Melismata at 2:48 PM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 2:48 PM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
Buried lede in the Carter Page article:
Now, would I put it completely past the FBI to spend months running around asking questions about a false and worthless document? Not really. But as an indicator of the dossier's reliability, the fact that they haven't thrown it in the garbage is meaningful.
posted by zachlipton at 2:50 PM on June 26, 2017 [23 favorites]
Over a four-week period in March, Page met repeatedly with FBI agents, who pressed him on claims made in a secret dossier compiled by a former British intelligence officer, according to people familiar with the probe.If the FBI is still, in March, asking questions about the dossier, then the FBI clearly thinks the dossier is credible enough to still be investigating.
Now, would I put it completely past the FBI to spend months running around asking questions about a false and worthless document? Not really. But as an indicator of the dossier's reliability, the fact that they haven't thrown it in the garbage is meaningful.
posted by zachlipton at 2:50 PM on June 26, 2017 [23 favorites]
Why isn't "This administration hates the press WTF?!" a story in itself?
For the same reason you don't generally see reporters call people on lying to their face. They don't want to lose access, and thus, lose audience.
posted by Archelaus at 2:59 PM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
For the same reason you don't generally see reporters call people on lying to their face. They don't want to lose access, and thus, lose audience.
posted by Archelaus at 2:59 PM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
Ooof. Lindsey Graham, about Trump calling the House bill "mean": "Here's what I would tell any Senator: if you're counting on the President to have your back, you need to watch it (laughs).
I've seen a number of reports that Republicans in the House are furious over this. Backstabbing your own party after a vote you personally celebrated is not a way to make friends.
You remember what I was saying a little while ago about how Democrats were talking about extending the ACA's tax credits to better help the middle class while Republicans want to reduce them in this bill? This graph makes it pretty damn clear. The combination of charging older folks more and cutting off the subsidies at 350% FPL means that someone earning $57K will, on average, go from paying $6,800 for a silver plan (12% of income) to paying $20,500 (36% of income). Please remember this when you think about the middle class and the safety net.
Please enjoy this photo of Rand Paul being squished by reporters. He says he's a firm no on both the motion to proceed (talking about that tomorrow or Wednesday) and the bill itself.
posted by zachlipton at 3:11 PM on June 26, 2017 [15 favorites]
I've seen a number of reports that Republicans in the House are furious over this. Backstabbing your own party after a vote you personally celebrated is not a way to make friends.
You remember what I was saying a little while ago about how Democrats were talking about extending the ACA's tax credits to better help the middle class while Republicans want to reduce them in this bill? This graph makes it pretty damn clear. The combination of charging older folks more and cutting off the subsidies at 350% FPL means that someone earning $57K will, on average, go from paying $6,800 for a silver plan (12% of income) to paying $20,500 (36% of income). Please remember this when you think about the middle class and the safety net.
Please enjoy this photo of Rand Paul being squished by reporters. He says he's a firm no on both the motion to proceed (talking about that tomorrow or Wednesday) and the bill itself.
posted by zachlipton at 3:11 PM on June 26, 2017 [15 favorites]
Right now the middle class is angry, and if the Dems wanted, they could clean up by offering to expand the safety net upwards. But there's a lot of resistance to that because it would also help the "white working class" - but wouldn't it be better to offer them tangible help rather than scapegoats?
This is a horribly mean spirited statement and totally false.
Democrats are providing lots of policies beneficial to the white middle class. The idea that Democrats have some sort of resistance to providing benefits to the white middle class is just bullshit. The majority of benefits of the ACA fall to whites who outnumber minorities.
The problem is actually 180 degrees the opposite from your statement. It isn't Democrats refusing to help the white working class. It is the white working class who is against any policy that might benefit minorities in addition to their own white selves. If there is one thing that will get white middle class Trumpers angry, it is the remote possibility that somewhere, someplace there might be one person of color getting a benefit they don't deserve.
If there is animosity to the white working class from Democrats, it is frustration at the greed, the selfishness, the hatred toward minorities by middle class whites that prevents Democrats from helping everyone, including whites.
posted by JackFlash at 3:13 PM on June 26, 2017 [62 favorites]
This is a horribly mean spirited statement and totally false.
Democrats are providing lots of policies beneficial to the white middle class. The idea that Democrats have some sort of resistance to providing benefits to the white middle class is just bullshit. The majority of benefits of the ACA fall to whites who outnumber minorities.
The problem is actually 180 degrees the opposite from your statement. It isn't Democrats refusing to help the white working class. It is the white working class who is against any policy that might benefit minorities in addition to their own white selves. If there is one thing that will get white middle class Trumpers angry, it is the remote possibility that somewhere, someplace there might be one person of color getting a benefit they don't deserve.
If there is animosity to the white working class from Democrats, it is frustration at the greed, the selfishness, the hatred toward minorities by middle class whites that prevents Democrats from helping everyone, including whites.
posted by JackFlash at 3:13 PM on June 26, 2017 [62 favorites]
They don't want to lose access, and thus, lose audience.
Then let the fucking word go forth from this time and place, to friend and foe alike: any news outlet who goes to the next cameras-off briefing and turns their cameras on has my subscription money until the day I die. Any outlet who leaves their camera off, I'm boycotting their advertisers.
That access/audience lickspittle sycophantic cowardice only works with our consent, and it implodes if the press all acts together. If (e.g.) Fox is the only one in there with their cameras off and therefore the only one invited to the press-briefing-after-next, it's not like they all of a sudden have an iron-lock monopoly on information about the Trump White House. Don't play the game. Don't negotiate with terrorists. Fuck enablers and quislings forever.
posted by penduluum at 3:15 PM on June 26, 2017 [24 favorites]
Then let the fucking word go forth from this time and place, to friend and foe alike: any news outlet who goes to the next cameras-off briefing and turns their cameras on has my subscription money until the day I die. Any outlet who leaves their camera off, I'm boycotting their advertisers.
That access/audience lickspittle sycophantic cowardice only works with our consent, and it implodes if the press all acts together. If (e.g.) Fox is the only one in there with their cameras off and therefore the only one invited to the press-briefing-after-next, it's not like they all of a sudden have an iron-lock monopoly on information about the Trump White House. Don't play the game. Don't negotiate with terrorists. Fuck enablers and quislings forever.
posted by penduluum at 3:15 PM on June 26, 2017 [24 favorites]
90% of Americans have employer provided healthcare
That's not even close to being correct. According to the Kaiser Foundation, the actual percentage of people whose health insurance is covered by their employers varies widely by state, from a low of 37% in New Mexico to a high of 61% in New Hampshire. The national average is 49%, not 90%.
Does this information cause you to rethink any of your statements on this subject, corb?
posted by Nat "King" Cole Porter Wagoner at 3:24 PM on June 26, 2017 [59 favorites]
That's not even close to being correct. According to the Kaiser Foundation, the actual percentage of people whose health insurance is covered by their employers varies widely by state, from a low of 37% in New Mexico to a high of 61% in New Hampshire. The national average is 49%, not 90%.
Does this information cause you to rethink any of your statements on this subject, corb?
posted by Nat "King" Cole Porter Wagoner at 3:24 PM on June 26, 2017 [59 favorites]
One underlying mechanism that is screwing over opiate-afflicted rural communities and gentrifying urban neighborhoods alike is that capital (whether controlled by factory owners or real estate developers) is much more mobile than people. Cheaper labor in another state or country? Higher return on investment in private prisons than in education? A speculators’ market in which an inner city hood can be transmogrified into SodoSopa ("South of Downtown South Park”)?
As the “giant pool of money” that rushed into subprime mortgage loans reveals, the pursuit of a higher return on investment creates some remarkably crappy outcomes for actual people.
But we’ve long fetishized investment in this country and have now financialized the economy to the point where being a real estate speculator with other people’s money is seen as being a savvy entrepreneur.
posted by spamandkimchi at 3:24 PM on June 26, 2017 [12 favorites]
As the “giant pool of money” that rushed into subprime mortgage loans reveals, the pursuit of a higher return on investment creates some remarkably crappy outcomes for actual people.
But we’ve long fetishized investment in this country and have now financialized the economy to the point where being a real estate speculator with other people’s money is seen as being a savvy entrepreneur.
posted by spamandkimchi at 3:24 PM on June 26, 2017 [12 favorites]
It isn't Democrats refusing to help the white working class. It is the white working class who is against any policy that might benefit minorities in addition to their own white selves.
+1ing this because this is exactly the experience I have with my conservative white middle class family. They are more than willing to forgo a benefit they themselves could use if it has the possibility of being used by those "lazy do-nothings on the government teat." I hope that self-righteous pride can be exchanged for medical treatment when they need it.
posted by greermahoney at 3:27 PM on June 26, 2017 [18 favorites]
+1ing this because this is exactly the experience I have with my conservative white middle class family. They are more than willing to forgo a benefit they themselves could use if it has the possibility of being used by those "lazy do-nothings on the government teat." I hope that self-righteous pride can be exchanged for medical treatment when they need it.
posted by greermahoney at 3:27 PM on June 26, 2017 [18 favorites]
corb> 90% of Americans have employer provided healthcare and are not likely to receive proposed benefits.
90%? That isn't even close to true. Employer-associated insurance covers about 56% of the non-elderly US population, and a little less than half of US children under 18.
It's reasonable to have different opinions on policy. It's not reasonable to show up with your own set of facts.
posted by toxic at 3:28 PM on June 26, 2017 [25 favorites]
90%? That isn't even close to true. Employer-associated insurance covers about 56% of the non-elderly US population, and a little less than half of US children under 18.
It's reasonable to have different opinions on policy. It's not reasonable to show up with your own set of facts.
posted by toxic at 3:28 PM on June 26, 2017 [25 favorites]
Ready for some Maverick talk?
@Matt Fuller John McCain says there are "lots" he'd like to see changed in the health care bill, but not withholding support. "That's not how it works."
I take "That's not how it works" as the GOP golden rule of Party over Country. I seem to remember a time when Senators voted on legislation as to how it actually affected their state not whether their "Team" won. Oh well. I guess I'm old and outdated.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:29 PM on June 26, 2017 [32 favorites]
@Matt Fuller John McCain says there are "lots" he'd like to see changed in the health care bill, but not withholding support. "That's not how it works."
I take "That's not how it works" as the GOP golden rule of Party over Country. I seem to remember a time when Senators voted on legislation as to how it actually affected their state not whether their "Team" won. Oh well. I guess I'm old and outdated.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:29 PM on June 26, 2017 [32 favorites]
McCain '08: COUNTRY FIRST
McCain '17: That's not how it works
posted by hangashore at 3:32 PM on June 26, 2017 [50 favorites]
McCain '17: That's not how it works
posted by hangashore at 3:32 PM on June 26, 2017 [50 favorites]
> I've seen a number of reports that Republicans in the House are furious over this. Backstabbing your own party after a vote you personally celebrated is not a way to make friends.
Sometimes it's the small pleasures.
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:34 PM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
Sometimes it's the small pleasures.
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:34 PM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
Sen. Lee's spokesman says he won't vote for the motion to proceed. Sen. Johnson is in the "highly doubt" category. Paul is a no, as I noted upthread.
That's enough to stop the bill, for now anyway.
The number to watch is the couple hundred billion dollars that the CBO just said the bill saves. That's an awfully big slush fund McConnell can dole out to buy votes. Billions for opioid treatment, billions in bribes to Alaska and/or Nevada (the Vegas Vig™), some sort of extra "be less mean to sick kids" fund, whatever. There could be some pretty huge payoffs to make this happen.
posted by zachlipton at 3:35 PM on June 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
That's enough to stop the bill, for now anyway.
The number to watch is the couple hundred billion dollars that the CBO just said the bill saves. That's an awfully big slush fund McConnell can dole out to buy votes. Billions for opioid treatment, billions in bribes to Alaska and/or Nevada (the Vegas Vig™), some sort of extra "be less mean to sick kids" fund, whatever. There could be some pretty huge payoffs to make this happen.
posted by zachlipton at 3:35 PM on June 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
"I'm very troubled by all the gambling going on in this establishment" said McCain, who was seated at a blackjack table. "It seems that - hit me - someone needs to shut down the casino - hit me again - as soon as possible - fucking ten are you kidding me - before anyone is taken in by the scourge of card games and loose women. I would certainly never - double down - frequent a casino for fear of losing all my money on this neverending string of bullshit dealer aces".
posted by 0xFCAF at 3:35 PM on June 26, 2017 [40 favorites]
posted by 0xFCAF at 3:35 PM on June 26, 2017 [40 favorites]
It is the white working class who is against any policy that might benefit minorities in addition to their own white selves.
did you know that the white working class is comprised of millions of individuals who don't all vote or think alike?
posted by pyramid termite at 3:42 PM on June 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
did you know that the white working class is comprised of millions of individuals who don't all vote or think alike?
posted by pyramid termite at 3:42 PM on June 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
Do we really have to play "not ALL white working class voters" ?
posted by 0xFCAF at 3:48 PM on June 26, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by 0xFCAF at 3:48 PM on June 26, 2017 [8 favorites]
i'm not playing - a good portion of us vote for democrats and demonizing us isn't going to help
god forbid that people stick up for class issues in this country
posted by pyramid termite at 3:50 PM on June 26, 2017 [9 favorites]
god forbid that people stick up for class issues in this country
posted by pyramid termite at 3:50 PM on June 26, 2017 [9 favorites]
According to the Kaiser Foundation, the actual percentage of people whose health insurance is covered by their employers varies widely by state, from a low of 37% in New Mexico to a high of 61% in New Hampshire. The national average is 49%, not 90%.
Wow that is a valuable chart, thank you Nat "King" Cole Porter Wagner. I would not have guessed it was that low. So according to that chart, 20% of Americans get their HC through Medicaid and 14% through Medicare. Jamelle Bouie asks: If it's willing to sacrifice health insurance for 22 million Americans, what won't the GOP sacrifice to the Moloch of tax cuts for the rich? and my guess is once they have whittled Medicaid down to a shadow of its former self, they will go to work on Medicare. Up to now that has been sacrosanct because retirees vote, but as we've seen the GOP suddenly seems fearless.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:51 PM on June 26, 2017 [8 favorites]
Wow that is a valuable chart, thank you Nat "King" Cole Porter Wagner. I would not have guessed it was that low. So according to that chart, 20% of Americans get their HC through Medicaid and 14% through Medicare. Jamelle Bouie asks: If it's willing to sacrifice health insurance for 22 million Americans, what won't the GOP sacrifice to the Moloch of tax cuts for the rich? and my guess is once they have whittled Medicaid down to a shadow of its former self, they will go to work on Medicare. Up to now that has been sacrosanct because retirees vote, but as we've seen the GOP suddenly seems fearless.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:51 PM on June 26, 2017 [8 favorites]
@Susan Collins: I want to work w/ my GOP & Dem colleagues to fix the flaws in ACA. CBO analysis shows Senate bill won't do it. I will vote no on mtp. CBO says 22 million people lose insurance; Medicaid cuts hurt most vulnerable Americans; access to healthcare in rural areas threatened. Senate bill doesn't fix ACA problems for rural Maine. Our hospitals are already struggling. 1 in 5 Mainers are on Medicaid.
So that's the second "No" on motion to proceed.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:54 PM on June 26, 2017 [58 favorites]
So that's the second "No" on motion to proceed.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:54 PM on June 26, 2017 [58 favorites]
That's not even close to being correct...The national average is 49%, not 90%
Thank you! I'm at work right now so can't dig up good figures but don't want to let bad info stand in thread - I remembered someone talking a few threads ago about the 90% figure but turns out that's all insurance including Medicaid! So sorry for steering you astray! I'll be back later with more substantive contributions, just wanted to nip that in the bud.
posted by corb at 3:58 PM on June 26, 2017 [23 favorites]
Thank you! I'm at work right now so can't dig up good figures but don't want to let bad info stand in thread - I remembered someone talking a few threads ago about the 90% figure but turns out that's all insurance including Medicaid! So sorry for steering you astray! I'll be back later with more substantive contributions, just wanted to nip that in the bud.
posted by corb at 3:58 PM on June 26, 2017 [23 favorites]
Some numbers and tables from the Kaiser Family Foundation:
Premiums under the Senate Better Care Reconciliation Act
posted by zachlipton at 3:58 PM on June 26, 2017 [28 favorites]
Premiums under the Senate Better Care Reconciliation Act
Overall, marketplace enrollees would pay on average 74 percent more towards the premium for a benchmark silver plan in 2020 under the BCRA than under current law (Table 1). Younger enrollees would see modest increases on average (10 percent for those under age 18; 17 percent for those ages 18 to 34), while average premiums would more than double for enrollees ages 55 to 64. State-level results are in Appendix Table 2.If you're 55-64 with income <200% FPL, your premiums will increase 294% in two years. Every single person in this country should know that fact and be calling their Senators to say it's unacceptable.
These results vary significantly by income as well (Table 2). Marketplace enrollees with incomes below 200 percent of poverty would see an average increase in their premium costs of 177 percent, while higher income enrollees would see an increase of 57 percent.
There are important differences by age within these income groups: among enrollees with incomes below 200 percent of poverty, those in 18 to 34 age group would see an average increase of 82 percent while those in the 55 to 64 age group would see an average increase of 288 percent. Among enrollees with incomes 200 percent of poverty and above, enrollees in the 18 to 34 age group would not see an increase while those age 55 to 64 would see their premium costs almost double.
posted by zachlipton at 3:58 PM on June 26, 2017 [28 favorites]
they complained and complained about the high cost of obamacare and then they turn around and jack up the premiums like this - the brazenness of their lies is appalling
posted by pyramid termite at 4:09 PM on June 26, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 4:09 PM on June 26, 2017 [19 favorites]
Jonathan Wiseman of the NYT tweets With @SenatorCollins gone on health bill, @lisamurkowski and @SenCapito likely to follow. And Bill Cassidy was with Collins on their bill.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:11 PM on June 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:11 PM on June 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
So that's the second "No" on motion to proceed.
There are three now :)
Heller, Paul, and Collins.
posted by diogenes at 4:11 PM on June 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
There are three now :)
Heller, Paul, and Collins.
posted by diogenes at 4:11 PM on June 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
Acosta's punishment for speaking up about cameras at today's briefing: @charliespiering Acosta and CNN arrived to POTUS event in the Rose Garden to find seat placard removed, equipment moved - WH aides scrambled to get them seat.
posted by scalefree at 4:14 PM on June 26, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 4:14 PM on June 26, 2017 [14 favorites]
Does a Paul "no" even count? Collins seems to be in the "this is bad policy" camp, while Paul is arguing its not bad enough.
posted by H. Roark at 4:15 PM on June 26, 2017
posted by H. Roark at 4:15 PM on June 26, 2017
Does a Paul "no" even count? Collins seems to be in the "this is bad policy" camp, while Paul is arguing its not bad enough.
It counts when it comes to stalling the bill. And stalling it into the July 4th recess would be a very good thing.
posted by diogenes at 4:17 PM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
It counts when it comes to stalling the bill. And stalling it into the July 4th recess would be a very good thing.
posted by diogenes at 4:17 PM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Acronym check: what does MTP mean here?
Motion to Proceed. The Senate votes on one of those, which causes them to proceed to debate on the bill on the floor. Then they vote again to actually pass it. It would be the next step in the process of enacting the bill.
posted by zachlipton at 4:18 PM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Motion to Proceed. The Senate votes on one of those, which causes them to proceed to debate on the bill on the floor. Then they vote again to actually pass it. It would be the next step in the process of enacting the bill.
posted by zachlipton at 4:18 PM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Acronym check: what does MTP mean here?
Motion to proceed.
posted by Talez at 4:18 PM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Motion to proceed.
posted by Talez at 4:18 PM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Acronym check: what does MTP mean here?
Motion to proceed.
posted by azpenguin at 4:19 PM on June 26, 2017
Motion to proceed.
posted by azpenguin at 4:19 PM on June 26, 2017
Hey friends, don't forget to MtP -- motion to Preview before posting.
posted by miguelcervantes at 4:21 PM on June 26, 2017 [56 favorites]
posted by miguelcervantes at 4:21 PM on June 26, 2017 [56 favorites]
Form of...procedural minutae!
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 4:30 PM on June 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 4:30 PM on June 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
Three journalists leaving CNN after retracted article
The investment fund somehow involved Anthony Scaramucci, who's made appearances in these threads once or twice (such as when he was named ambassador to OECD).
posted by notyou at 4:33 PM on June 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
Three CNN journalists, including the executive editor in charge of a new investigative unit, have resigned after the publication of a Russia-related article that was retracted.Wow, Lichtblau just took that job. Dang.
Thomas Frank, who wrote the story in question; Eric Lichtblau, an editor in the unit; and Lex Haris, who oversaw the unit, have all left CNN.
"In the aftermath of the retraction of a story published on CNN.com, CNN has accepted the resignations of the employees involved in the story's publication," a spokesman said Monday evening.
An internal investigation by CNN management found that some standard editorial processes were not followed when the article was published, people briefed on the results of the investigation said.
The story, which reported that Congress was investigating a "Russian investment fund with ties to Trump officials," cited a single anonymous source.
The investment fund somehow involved Anthony Scaramucci, who's made appearances in these threads once or twice (such as when he was named ambassador to OECD).
posted by notyou at 4:33 PM on June 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
I overheard a conversation at the makerspace I belong to (which puts me into contact with 300% more drunk white male engineers than I normally associate with) that was basically the thing. "Some people legit need help but then there's all these welfare queens, so I guess we just have to fuck everyone, there's literally no other choice." The notion of someone not "deserving" (by the reckoning of a random electrical engineer having a smoke in a parking lot) being given even a penny of assistance is so unthinkable to some people that hastening the demise of disabled people and children is an acceptable price to pay to ensure that doesn't happen. (This same dude earlier in the evening made a joke about molesting interns then shouted loud enough for me to definitely hear in the woodshop that he was "just joking everyone, okay, geez" which was clearly aimed at me, the only female in the place, having probably overheard his first remark. So, a real peach is what I'm saying.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:33 PM on June 26, 2017 [69 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:33 PM on June 26, 2017 [69 favorites]
Gotta love fuck you I've got mine tech libertarians.
posted by Talez at 4:39 PM on June 26, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Talez at 4:39 PM on June 26, 2017 [12 favorites]
In actual Reifenstahling, Time is writing puff on Ivanka.
That's Fortune, owned by Time, but this part:
posted by peeedro at 4:42 PM on June 26, 2017 [12 favorites]
That's Fortune, owned by Time, but this part:
President Trump's grandchildren have a front-row seat to political life. Back in February, five-year-old Arabella got a tour of the Supreme Court and listened in on a hearing. "I'm grateful for the opportunity to teach her about the judicial system in our country firsthand," Ivanka Trump wrote in an Instagram caption accompanying a photo of the pair.It's just a little too close to when you take kids to the zoo and say, "I'm glad they got to see the cheetahs and polar bears," and then under your breath add, "...before they went extinct."
posted by peeedro at 4:42 PM on June 26, 2017 [12 favorites]
> Gotta love fuck you I've got mine tech libertarians.
...but you repeat yourself.
posted by tonycpsu at 4:43 PM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
...but you repeat yourself.
posted by tonycpsu at 4:43 PM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
"... but then there's all these welfare queens..."
I no longer let this kind of shit slide -- I ask for specifics, and call them out when they flail. I don't care any more if people think I'm "nice".
posted by phliar at 4:44 PM on June 26, 2017 [42 favorites]
I no longer let this kind of shit slide -- I ask for specifics, and call them out when they flail. I don't care any more if people think I'm "nice".
posted by phliar at 4:44 PM on June 26, 2017 [42 favorites]
Want to add that hiring lawyers is 100% smart and doesn't necessarily indicate guilt
But what does it indicate when the personal lawyer Trump hired, Michael Cohen, hires his own personal lawyer?
It's just lawyers all the way down.
posted by JackFlash at 4:47 PM on June 26, 2017
But what does it indicate when the personal lawyer Trump hired, Michael Cohen, hires his own personal lawyer?
It's just lawyers all the way down.
posted by JackFlash at 4:47 PM on June 26, 2017
Atul Gawande calls it like it is in the New Yorker: How the Senate’s Health-Care Bill Threatens the Nation’s Health
The trade-offs here are indefensible. The bill would take a trillion dollars away from health coverage for the bottom fifty per cent of the population to give a tax cut to the top two per cent. The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities did the math: one consequence of the legislation is that three-quarters of a million people would be thrown off of the Medicaid rolls to give the four hundred highest earners in the country a thirty-three-billion-dollar tax cut. The bill would put thousands of nursing homes, clinics, and hospitals into financial trouble. And for patients it would mean more medical debts, more untreated sickness, and more deaths. A basic test of government is its ability to prevent large-scale harm to its citizens’ health and survival. This bill, and this Administration, are failing that test.Rewire: A Supreme Court Win for Same-Sex Couples, But Gorsuch Dissent Could Spell Trouble
First, Gorsuch expressed how deeply unhappy he was that this case was summarily reversed. His eagerness to force arguments for an open-and-shut case shows that he does not consider Obergefell settled law, but rather something that will need to be assessed and reassessed each time a conservative state or court tries to limit it. He also asserted that it is fine for the state to have a birth certificate registration policy that is only “generally based on biology,” even if there are exceptions. In other words, the exceptions he likes, such as donor insemination and adoption, are fine, but the ones he doesn’t, like same-sex marriage, are not. Finally, he gives credit where no credit is due, by saying that the Arkansas court, in upholding a denial of the same-sex couples’ birth certificates, was engaging honestly and “faithfully” with Obergefell. Of course, an honest and faithful engagement with Obergefell would mean reading that case expansively, as the Supreme Court indicated, rather than seeking a loophole in order to discriminate.Rick Hasen/Election Law Blog: Justice Gorsuch Already Showing Himself to Be Among Court’s Most Conservative Justices
Already today, Justice Gorsuch dissented from the partial stay in the travel ban case, dissented from a gay rights case involving the right of same sex parents to be on birth certificates, and dissented from the Court’s decision not to hear a law involving a California concealed carry gun law. Justice Gorsuch also wrote separately in the Trinity Lutheran case to take a position further than the Court on the ability of the government to aid religion.posted by zachlipton at 4:48 PM on June 26, 2017 [25 favorites]
Finally, and what makes me think Justice Gorsuch will be more like Scalia than Alito or Thomas is Justice Gorsuch’s pro-criminal defendant statement in the Hicks case, over Chief Justice Roberts’ dissent. Justice Scalia, while very conservative, had a pocket of pro-criminal defendant cases. I expect Gorsuch to have the same.
He actually didn't say "welfare queen" (he was thinking it, I'm sure, but didn't actually go that far), or I would have nebbed in just to call out the racism. He described lazy takers who refuse to work and just live off the government dime. Which is also not really a thing, at least not in numbers that are in any way significant compared to everyone else, but unless you're prepared to google up copious government documents on the spot, no one actually believes this when you point it out.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:50 PM on June 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:50 PM on June 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
Gorsuch Dissent Could Spell Trouble
The Justice From Brietbart. For the next 5 decades.
Thanks, Jill Stein.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:52 PM on June 26, 2017 [46 favorites]
The Justice From Brietbart. For the next 5 decades.
Thanks, Jill Stein.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:52 PM on June 26, 2017 [46 favorites]
the notion of someone not "deserving" (by the reckoning of a random electrical engineer having a smoke in a parking lot) being given even a penny of assistance is so unthinkable to some people that hastening the demise of disabled people and children is an acceptable price to pay to ensure that doesn't happen.
This position makes some degree of sense if you begin from the premise that you are the only person who isn't basically trying to scam your way into a free ride in any way possible. If there's a welfare system and it's possible to cheat it, well, of course the dole will just be flooded with hordes of cheaters eager to coast along on that sweet, sweet poverty-level subsistence and the very few honest people left will be unable to support them all, and poor Mr. Honest Libertarian will be forced at gunpoint to hand over all he owns to pay for their checks. Therefore, any imperfect welfare system needs to be immediately burned to the ground in order to preserve a functioning society. So much of tough, macho, "I live in the REAL world, buttercup" conservative thinking is based on a bunker mentality born out of weak, cowardly suspicion toward anyone and anything unfamiliar.
posted by contraption at 4:53 PM on June 26, 2017 [26 favorites]
This position makes some degree of sense if you begin from the premise that you are the only person who isn't basically trying to scam your way into a free ride in any way possible. If there's a welfare system and it's possible to cheat it, well, of course the dole will just be flooded with hordes of cheaters eager to coast along on that sweet, sweet poverty-level subsistence and the very few honest people left will be unable to support them all, and poor Mr. Honest Libertarian will be forced at gunpoint to hand over all he owns to pay for their checks. Therefore, any imperfect welfare system needs to be immediately burned to the ground in order to preserve a functioning society. So much of tough, macho, "I live in the REAL world, buttercup" conservative thinking is based on a bunker mentality born out of weak, cowardly suspicion toward anyone and anything unfamiliar.
posted by contraption at 4:53 PM on June 26, 2017 [26 favorites]
I'd love to see these chuckleheads demanding the same vigorous pursuit of corporations that steal millions on their taxes or from employees that they demand for finding the handful of people who cheat to gain access to safety net programs.
posted by tonycpsu at 4:54 PM on June 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 4:54 PM on June 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
> Sorry, procedural question: after this week, recess is mandatory, yes? McConnell can't extend the session?
He technically can, but stories I've read say that vacations are already planned and it'd be nearly impossible to get Senators to change their plans.
posted by tonycpsu at 4:55 PM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
He technically can, but stories I've read say that vacations are already planned and it'd be nearly impossible to get Senators to change their plans.
posted by tonycpsu at 4:55 PM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
WaPo's whip count now shows six "opposed" and four "with concerns. I'm almost hopeful. *sob*
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:01 PM on June 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:01 PM on June 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
WaPo's whip count now shows six "opposed" and four "with concerns. I'm almost hopeful. *sob*
A couple of people on the bus at the last minute said maybe we shouldn't drive it off the cliff.
Progress!
posted by bongo_x at 5:13 PM on June 26, 2017 [14 favorites]
A couple of people on the bus at the last minute said maybe we shouldn't drive it off the cliff.
Progress!
posted by bongo_x at 5:13 PM on June 26, 2017 [14 favorites]
These fuckers really want another war.
As the new administration conducts a routine review of its Iran policy, senior officials are hinting that they're open to toppling the country's clerical regime.
posted by adamvasco at 5:16 PM on June 26, 2017 [17 favorites]
As the new administration conducts a routine review of its Iran policy, senior officials are hinting that they're open to toppling the country's clerical regime.
posted by adamvasco at 5:16 PM on June 26, 2017 [17 favorites]
Even with the current solid No votes of Collins and Paul and the likely No from Heller, we still have to ratchet up the pressure on all of them.
I think our top-tier targets need to be Collins, Heller, and Murkowski, who are the most moderate and most vulnerable. It's only Monday, and each one of them is looking to get to a Yes, to viciously stab us in the collective gut. McConnell is rotten to the core and will pull every dirty trick he can to pass this bill, right up until he can't. If we can keep them as No votes, then any concessions to them will make it harder for the likes of Lee, Paul, and Cruz to vote Yes.
Second tier-targets are Johnson and Cassidy, who aren't the most radical rightwingers, but have documented objections to the process and effects of the bill.
Third tier are Lee, Paul, and Cruz. They are, for the most part, radical ideologues who are pissed they can't slit our collective throat with this bill.
***
Here are a couple of my previous sets of talking points on this bill. I'm hoping to put out an updated set this week, schedule permitting.
***
Another way to put pressure on Heller, Murkowski, and Collins is to ask your Democratic/Independent Senators to convey messages to them. This strategy was suggested to me by a Senatorial staffer, when I asked about how we could effectively pressure out of state Senators since it's ineffective to contact them directly. For instance, here's a slightly modify version of something I sent to mine today telling them to pressure Dean Heller:
Yeah, the EC is pissed and is taking off her mozetta and biretta for this fight.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 5:20 PM on June 26, 2017 [43 favorites]
I think our top-tier targets need to be Collins, Heller, and Murkowski, who are the most moderate and most vulnerable. It's only Monday, and each one of them is looking to get to a Yes, to viciously stab us in the collective gut. McConnell is rotten to the core and will pull every dirty trick he can to pass this bill, right up until he can't. If we can keep them as No votes, then any concessions to them will make it harder for the likes of Lee, Paul, and Cruz to vote Yes.
Second tier-targets are Johnson and Cassidy, who aren't the most radical rightwingers, but have documented objections to the process and effects of the bill.
Third tier are Lee, Paul, and Cruz. They are, for the most part, radical ideologues who are pissed they can't slit our collective throat with this bill.
***
Here are a couple of my previous sets of talking points on this bill. I'm hoping to put out an updated set this week, schedule permitting.
***
Another way to put pressure on Heller, Murkowski, and Collins is to ask your Democratic/Independent Senators to convey messages to them. This strategy was suggested to me by a Senatorial staffer, when I asked about how we could effectively pressure out of state Senators since it's ineffective to contact them directly. For instance, here's a slightly modify version of something I sent to mine today telling them to pressure Dean Heller:
Senator,These letters are particularly potent against Senators like Heller because Nevada happened to have quite a bit of contact from nearby states, which I think was effective. Nevada went for Clinton and elected Senator Catherine Cortez-Masto.
I am completely opposed to Mitch McConnell's sickening, depraved health bill. I depend on [the ACA/Medicare/Medicaid] for my health insurance [and it has saved my life]. This bill would toss [people you know] into the "pre-existing condition" bin, like the trash Republicans think we are.
To this end, I request that, at your discretion, you tell [vulnerable, "moderate" Senator in a nearby state] that if [they] vote to support this bill, I'm going to campaign for their Democratic opponents, hold them personally responsible for this travesty, and tell everyone I know that they're soaked in the blood of every single American who suffers or dies due to this legislative terrorism.
If [vulnerable "moderate Senators] thinks [they] can get away with voting for this bill and show such a depraved indifference to human life, [they have] another thing coming.
Thank you for all have done in the Senate to protect our healthcare. You make [our state] proud!
Sincerely,
[Your name]
Yeah, the EC is pissed and is taking off her mozetta and biretta for this fight.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 5:20 PM on June 26, 2017 [43 favorites]
There! See! FRAMING!
Philip Bump; Washington Post:
It’s official: The Senate health-care bill is about cutting Medicaid
Philip Bump; Washington Post:
It’s official: The Senate health-care bill is about cutting Medicaid
On Monday, the Congressional Budget Office released its nonpartisan analysis of the Senate proposal. Not only does that analysis make clear that the Senate proposal includes significant cuts to Medicaid spending, it also demonstrates that the Senate bill is more reliant on Medicaid cuts than even the House bill that President Trump called “mean.”posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 5:23 PM on June 26, 2017 [35 favorites]
“The largest savings” in the federal budget, the CBO report says, “would come from reductions in outlays for Medicaid — spending on the program would decline in 2026 by 26 percent in comparison with what CBO projects under current law — and from changes to the Affordable Care Act’s (ACA’s) subsidies for nongroup health insurance.”
idk, guys. I am so filled with despair about all of this. but I am still fighting! and so is everyone I know from last year. but all of this is really overwhelmingly awful. idek what to do right now, past calling my senators.
posted by dogheart at 5:35 PM on June 26, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by dogheart at 5:35 PM on June 26, 2017 [14 favorites]
I miss 2016 when the dumpster fire was still contained.
posted by Talez at 5:36 PM on June 26, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Talez at 5:36 PM on June 26, 2017 [12 favorites]
Fellow Iowans, keep the pressure on Ernst, I have a sneaking suspicion she'd be a no if she felt more pressure after she sent out that survey a few days ago and after some other recent calls for public opinion. Iowan senators can be political weather vanes from time to time and may already be feeling some pressure from Iowans seeing some of this show in previews with the shitty Iowa Medicaid privatization Branstad pushed for.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:46 PM on June 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 5:46 PM on June 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
> This position makes some degree of sense if you begin from the premise that you are the only person who isn't basically trying to scam your way into a free ride in any way possible.
Though also note that these types are almost always trying to scam their way into control of "passive" (read: unearned) income streams. None of them have any qualms whatsoever about living off of investments, renting out property for profit, etc.: they are always looking for the type of free ride where they get to scam a living offf of people more vulnerable than they themselves are. The objection to welfare measures isn't that people are getting a free ride, it's that people might get the wrong type of free ride; the type that's funded by taxing the rich rather than by burdening the poor.
(at their core I believe they understand that welfare measures, along with anything else that gives the poor means to defend ourselves against the rich, work to undercut their ability to get their type of free ride. Anything that reduces the opportunity for exploiting the poor, they (correctly) interpret as a threat to their own comfortable ride.)
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:46 PM on June 26, 2017 [40 favorites]
Though also note that these types are almost always trying to scam their way into control of "passive" (read: unearned) income streams. None of them have any qualms whatsoever about living off of investments, renting out property for profit, etc.: they are always looking for the type of free ride where they get to scam a living offf of people more vulnerable than they themselves are. The objection to welfare measures isn't that people are getting a free ride, it's that people might get the wrong type of free ride; the type that's funded by taxing the rich rather than by burdening the poor.
(at their core I believe they understand that welfare measures, along with anything else that gives the poor means to defend ourselves against the rich, work to undercut their ability to get their type of free ride. Anything that reduces the opportunity for exploiting the poor, they (correctly) interpret as a threat to their own comfortable ride.)
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:46 PM on June 26, 2017 [40 favorites]
Another strategy might be to try to work on "T" himself on social media and play up the story that Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan are trying to use the "T" brand/name to kill hundreds of thousands Americans with their ghastly "healthcare" bills so working people can't get coverage.
The man doesn't give two shits about the McConnell/Ryan agenda, but he cares tremendously about his name, his brand, winning, and the adulation of the masses. Getting him to attack the bill publicly would be a huge disaster for McConnell and Ryan. Getting him to veto it because it lacks "heart" and would hurt his popularity would be an order of magnitude or two worse for Congressional Republicans, especially if he spun it as a win for himself and a loss for them.
I know these suggestions are the longest of Hail Mary shots, but perhaps they would be worth pursuing?
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 5:49 PM on June 26, 2017 [18 favorites]
The man doesn't give two shits about the McConnell/Ryan agenda, but he cares tremendously about his name, his brand, winning, and the adulation of the masses. Getting him to attack the bill publicly would be a huge disaster for McConnell and Ryan. Getting him to veto it because it lacks "heart" and would hurt his popularity would be an order of magnitude or two worse for Congressional Republicans, especially if he spun it as a win for himself and a loss for them.
I know these suggestions are the longest of Hail Mary shots, but perhaps they would be worth pursuing?
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 5:49 PM on June 26, 2017 [18 favorites]
that's smart. does anyone have a spare twitter botnet they can spin up to tweet at him?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:51 PM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:51 PM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
In actual Reifenstahling, Time Fortune is writing puff on Ivanka.
Definitely related: the New Yorker has a profile of Trump's best friend in the Media, the well-named David Pecker, CEO of American Media Inc. and publisher of the National Enquirer... who's currently making offers to buy Time Inc., and all its titles, including Fortune.
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:51 PM on June 26, 2017 [9 favorites]
Definitely related: the New Yorker has a profile of Trump's best friend in the Media, the well-named David Pecker, CEO of American Media Inc. and publisher of the National Enquirer... who's currently making offers to buy Time Inc., and all its titles, including Fortune.
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:51 PM on June 26, 2017 [9 favorites]
I'd love to see these chuckleheads demanding the same vigorous pursuit of corporations that steal millions on their taxes or from employees that they demand for finding the handful of people who cheat to gain access to safety net programs.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:54 PM on June 26 [−] Favorite added! [!]
Oh this topic makes my blood boil. Exhibit A is our own dear President's foundation which he used like his personal checkbook while writing off the donations against his taxes. And not only the Corporations that do illegal shit, there are plenty that get LEGAL welfare-- EXXON is one of them. Subsidies for very profitable industries make no sense-- it is like giving welfare to Billionaires. Add to that all those special considerations to lure Corporations to your state. The amount of tax money that flows into the pockets of the wealthy is staggering.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:52 PM on June 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 7:54 PM on June 26 [−] Favorite added! [!]
Oh this topic makes my blood boil. Exhibit A is our own dear President's foundation which he used like his personal checkbook while writing off the donations against his taxes. And not only the Corporations that do illegal shit, there are plenty that get LEGAL welfare-- EXXON is one of them. Subsidies for very profitable industries make no sense-- it is like giving welfare to Billionaires. Add to that all those special considerations to lure Corporations to your state. The amount of tax money that flows into the pockets of the wealthy is staggering.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:52 PM on June 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
The National Enquirer buying Time magazine sounds about right for 2017.
posted by Gaz Errant at 5:55 PM on June 26, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by Gaz Errant at 5:55 PM on June 26, 2017 [23 favorites]
The poll that matters is the one on election day. If people say they are okay with gay marriage but then vote overwhelmingly for, say, a ballot measure to ban gay marriage we can reasonably say that they oppose gay marriage regardless of what they tell pollsters. Similarly, if the white working class says they want to expand the social safety net but consistently vote for candidates who say they want to gut the social safety net we can reasonably say they support gutting the social safety net.
I think that's a little misleading. Apparently, there were plenty of Trump voters who indeed think that the rich are undertaxed and that the economic system is rigged against ordinary people; they were just much, much more motivated by white supremacy than they were by economic populism. (In this case I don't even mean white supremacy in the sort of more abstract systemic sense, I mean literally being more likely to believe that a truly American identity depends on not only being born in the USA but on having European ancestry.) This cluster was ~20% of Trump's voter base (!) according to that factor analysis that was posted recently. This also agrees with other analyses that suggest that "social" issues better-explain party identification than "economic" issues.
posted by en forme de poire at 6:09 PM on June 26, 2017 [12 favorites]
I think that's a little misleading. Apparently, there were plenty of Trump voters who indeed think that the rich are undertaxed and that the economic system is rigged against ordinary people; they were just much, much more motivated by white supremacy than they were by economic populism. (In this case I don't even mean white supremacy in the sort of more abstract systemic sense, I mean literally being more likely to believe that a truly American identity depends on not only being born in the USA but on having European ancestry.) This cluster was ~20% of Trump's voter base (!) according to that factor analysis that was posted recently. This also agrees with other analyses that suggest that "social" issues better-explain party identification than "economic" issues.
posted by en forme de poire at 6:09 PM on June 26, 2017 [12 favorites]
idk, guys. I am so filled with despair about all of this. but I am still fighting! and so is everyone I know from last year. but all of this is really overwhelmingly awful. idek what to do right now, past calling my senators.
Same, friend. Same. Keep on keepin' on, ok? We need you. And we got your back here.
posted by greermahoney at 6:10 PM on June 26, 2017 [18 favorites]
Same, friend. Same. Keep on keepin' on, ok? We need you. And we got your back here.
posted by greermahoney at 6:10 PM on June 26, 2017 [18 favorites]
Rachel Maddow reports that protesters in Florida are chanting Marco-Polio which, can we get a new puppet video on that theme?
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:15 PM on June 26, 2017 [37 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:15 PM on June 26, 2017 [37 favorites]
So that TICK TICK TICK tweet was bullshit, yes? Into the Mensch basket he goes.
You don't have to be Nostradamus to say that at some unspecified point in the future there will be a story that makes Trump look bad in the newspaper! Rly guys I swear!
posted by Justinian at 6:22 PM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
You don't have to be Nostradamus to say that at some unspecified point in the future there will be a story that makes Trump look bad in the newspaper! Rly guys I swear!
posted by Justinian at 6:22 PM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
So that TICK TICK TICK tweet was bullshit, yes? Into the Mensch basket he goes.
I'm not willing to write Wittes off just yet--Sean Hannity seemed to think he had something (as near as I can interpret the Hannity tweet, it sounds to me like he was accusing Wittes of having possession of leaked documents). I think there is a specific story in the works.
posted by Emera Gratia at 6:30 PM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm not willing to write Wittes off just yet--Sean Hannity seemed to think he had something (as near as I can interpret the Hannity tweet, it sounds to me like he was accusing Wittes of having possession of leaked documents). I think there is a specific story in the works.
posted by Emera Gratia at 6:30 PM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
Timothy O'Brian for Bloomberg:"Trump, Russia and a Shadowy Business Partnership"
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:31 PM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
In a series of interviews and a lawsuit, a former Bayrock insider, Jody Kriss, claims that he eventually departed from the firm because he became convinced that Bayrock was actually a front for money laundering.(This is not the boom. It's from 5 days ago. I just hadn't seen it here yet.)
Kriss has sued Bayrock, alleging that in addition to laundering money, the Bayrock team also skimmed cash from the operation, dodged taxes and cheated him out of millions of dollars.
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:31 PM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
Honestly with health care stuff happening (NYT just pushed a headline alert at me about the bill being "in peril") I'm glad for any boom to wait a week so we can keep our eyes on the ball here.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:36 PM on June 26, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:36 PM on June 26, 2017 [13 favorites]
So that TICK TICK TICK tweet was bullshit, yes? Into the Mensch basket he goes.
Dammit Justinian, it didn't work this time (like it did last time).
I'm with lalex. Still believe it might come tonight.
Yes, this is pathetic.
posted by pjenks at 6:36 PM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Dammit Justinian, it didn't work this time (like it did last time).
I'm with lalex. Still believe it might come tonight.
Yes, this is pathetic.
posted by pjenks at 6:36 PM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
There are three now :)
Heller, Paul, and Collins.
Don't tell me about the pain - show me the baby!
posted by petebest at 6:39 PM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Heller, Paul, and Collins.
Don't tell me about the pain - show me the baby!
posted by petebest at 6:39 PM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm not willing to write Wittes off just yet--Sean Hannity seemed to think he had something (as near as I can interpret the Hannity tweet, it sounds to me like he was accusing Wittes of having possession of leaked documents). I think there is a specific story in the works.
Same here.
It isn't hard to imagine some last-minute delays cropping up for a story about the President colluding with Russia.
posted by diogenes at 6:55 PM on June 26, 2017
Same here.
It isn't hard to imagine some last-minute delays cropping up for a story about the President colluding with Russia.
posted by diogenes at 6:55 PM on June 26, 2017
You don't have to be Nostradamus to say that at some unspecified point in the future there will be a story that makes Trump look bad in the newspaper!
Wittes is clearly in contact with Comey and/or people in Comey's orbit. It's obvious that he wasn't guessing about the Comey related articles in the NYT.
Although he says this one isn't about Comey...
posted by diogenes at 7:02 PM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Wittes is clearly in contact with Comey and/or people in Comey's orbit. It's obvious that he wasn't guessing about the Comey related articles in the NYT.
Although he says this one isn't about Comey...
posted by diogenes at 7:02 PM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
So its likely not a the boom, and it's not mainstream, but it was interesting by a lot:
Trump, Khashoggi, & Germany’s Criminal Deutsche Bank, Daniel Hopsicker
Of note,
Adnan Khashoggi, arms dealer ("That's where I know that name"), Iran-Contra, and BCCI among other feats of derring-do, died two weeks ago.
He and Donny Two Scoops were neighbors
The implication is that he helped DTS get his $300mil loan from Deutsche Bank
Unlike his other stiffed loans, Trump's personally guaranteed this one which means the POTUS gambit was literally going-for-broke
And this choice quote, “There was cultural criminality,” the whistleblower told reporters. “Deutsche Bank was structurally designed by management to allow corrupt individuals to commit fraud.”
Looooootta shoes on that centipede, right Johnny?
posted by petebest at 7:05 PM on June 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
Trump, Khashoggi, & Germany’s Criminal Deutsche Bank, Daniel Hopsicker
Of note,
And this choice quote, “There was cultural criminality,” the whistleblower told reporters. “Deutsche Bank was structurally designed by management to allow corrupt individuals to commit fraud.”
Looooootta shoes on that centipede, right Johnny?
posted by petebest at 7:05 PM on June 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
"I'm grateful for the opportunity to teach her about the judicial system in our country firsthand," Ivanka Trump wrote in an Instagram caption accompanying a photo of the pair.
What a lucky child. If dear little Arabella were just a little older, she could have attended her other grandfather's criminal trial instead of preparing for the next one.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:13 PM on June 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
What a lucky child. If dear little Arabella were just a little older, she could have attended her other grandfather's criminal trial instead of preparing for the next one.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:13 PM on June 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
So that TICK TICK TICK tweet was bullshit, yes? Into the Mensch basket he goes.
Lots of smart, sensible people seem to respect Wittes and his staff at Lawfare. Nobody in that category has anything good to say about Mensch. I don't think it makes sense to put them in the same category, regardless of your feelings about "tick" tweets.
posted by diogenes at 7:14 PM on June 26, 2017 [27 favorites]
Lots of smart, sensible people seem to respect Wittes and his staff at Lawfare. Nobody in that category has anything good to say about Mensch. I don't think it makes sense to put them in the same category, regardless of your feelings about "tick" tweets.
posted by diogenes at 7:14 PM on June 26, 2017 [27 favorites]
FL MeFites: Haircut without a corresponding person attached Marco Rubio has said he's undecided. You know the drill, get on them phones.
posted by penduluum at 7:15 PM on June 26, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by penduluum at 7:15 PM on June 26, 2017 [12 favorites]
Little Marco isn't just a haircut, he's making clawlike hand gestures while agonizing over the complicated math required to decide on a yes/no vote for the people of Florida.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:18 PM on June 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:18 PM on June 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
All right, perhaps I used hyperbole in putting Wittes in the Mensch basket. Nevertheless his tick stuff is annoying and juvenile.
posted by Justinian at 7:19 PM on June 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 7:19 PM on June 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
Because that's what's gonna help him understand: Rick Scott's staff. Nobody knows more about extracting wealth from health care via corruption than him.
Hopefully Gov. Scott understands that if this bill passes, Floridians will spend the rest of their shortened natural lives making sure FL never, ever elects another R senator. You listening, you ambitious bleached anus? Your political future is loaded in the cannon and they're fighting over how long to cut the fuse.
posted by penduluum at 7:25 PM on June 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
Hopefully Gov. Scott understands that if this bill passes, Floridians will spend the rest of their shortened natural lives making sure FL never, ever elects another R senator. You listening, you ambitious bleached anus? Your political future is loaded in the cannon and they're fighting over how long to cut the fuse.
posted by penduluum at 7:25 PM on June 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
Following up on the Deutsche Bank story I ran across Trump Mansion Sold to “Mobsters Sans Frontières”, Daniel Hopsicker (apparently it's his site) that details the sale of Trump's bargain Palm Beach mansion to Dmitry Rybolovlev. It starts with
The Russian "businessman" to whom Donald Trump sold his Palm Beach mansion for a purported $100 million was arrested in Russia in April of 1997 and charged with masterminding the killing of a business rival, in what law enforcement authorities called "a contract hit."
and includes At the time of Trump’s purchase, Resorts International was widely reported to have deep ties to the CIA. Its previous owner, James Crosby, founded Intertel, an internationally-known security company often described as a private Central Intelligence Agency, which listed among its clients billionaire recluse Howard Hughes, the Shah of Iran and Nicaraguan dictator Anastasio Somoza.
And that’s not to mention Resorts' Mob ties…
Hey doesn't the CIA and the FBI have some kind of intramural rivalry that might be playing out on the world stage again? The kicker is the byline of exactly nine years ago today . . . *Mr. Flashlight scaryface*
posted by petebest at 7:29 PM on June 26, 2017
The Russian "businessman" to whom Donald Trump sold his Palm Beach mansion for a purported $100 million was arrested in Russia in April of 1997 and charged with masterminding the killing of a business rival, in what law enforcement authorities called "a contract hit."
and includes At the time of Trump’s purchase, Resorts International was widely reported to have deep ties to the CIA. Its previous owner, James Crosby, founded Intertel, an internationally-known security company often described as a private Central Intelligence Agency, which listed among its clients billionaire recluse Howard Hughes, the Shah of Iran and Nicaraguan dictator Anastasio Somoza.
And that’s not to mention Resorts' Mob ties…
Hey doesn't the CIA and the FBI have some kind of intramural rivalry that might be playing out on the world stage again? The kicker is the byline of exactly nine years ago today . . . *Mr. Flashlight scaryface*
posted by petebest at 7:29 PM on June 26, 2017
idk about Wittes' credibility, but those replies to the Hannity tweet where he challenges Hannity and Vladimir Putin to a fight are cringy as heck.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:31 PM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 7:31 PM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's not really worth following a dude on twitter playing games with being an insider or not. There's not going to be any smoking gun Trump story that does him in, because literally no story will move Republicans one iota. Nothing has yet, and nothing will until the political power shift comes. They're already spinning up the literal talking points that "treason is OK when you win" and "Putin himself could run as long as it was on the R ticket".
The only way to end Trump's term early is to win the House back. Anything else along the way may help turn the public against him, and that's great, I hope there's a Russia "bombshell" for the next 500 days days straight. But one more self important asshole doing a ticking schitck isn't going to move the needle at all. Either the story comes, or not. We still have to retake the House.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:59 PM on June 26, 2017 [15 favorites]
The only way to end Trump's term early is to win the House back. Anything else along the way may help turn the public against him, and that's great, I hope there's a Russia "bombshell" for the next 500 days days straight. But one more self important asshole doing a ticking schitck isn't going to move the needle at all. Either the story comes, or not. We still have to retake the House.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:59 PM on June 26, 2017 [15 favorites]
According to this article, the chemical attack that resulted in the $60 million fireworks show in Syria didn't happen. Hmmmmm...
posted by njohnson23 at 8:05 PM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by njohnson23 at 8:05 PM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
OK what is going on with Syria tonight? First the White House releases this weird ominous statement, and now Buzzfeed reports:
Five US defense officials reached by BuzzFeed News said they did not know where the potential chemical attack would come from, and were unaware the White House was planning to release its statement. Usually such statements are coordinated across the national security agencies and departments before they are released.
My guess with this small amount of info that US intel has found out about some plans and the WH decided to use this information for propaganda purposes in an attempt to change the news narrative this week. It could be just the health care bill freakout they're after or it could be about something else they're expecting to come out.
They did this without the usual coordination and planning because folks there don't really give one shit about the actual issue in any meaningful way so why bother consulting anyone else that might have a clue and you know strategize. It's all about what they can use it for.
posted by Jalliah at 8:05 PM on June 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
A couple of thoughts. First of all, when i worked in a couple of different jobs providing government benefits, you know who were the people most clearly taking advantage? Yeah white middle class people. Because they know everyone else is doing it.
Secondly, as a bit of anecdata, my husband's restaurant has just lost it's landscaping contractor. They're the largest landscaping firm in this small town, they do a lot of the local businesses. Well because the government has put a freeze on issuing H-2B visas (or is cracking down on people outstaying?) they've lost 80% of their workers and can't get more. So they've had to scale WAY back and just drop most of their clients.
So there are a bunch of Republican-voting businessmen grumbling about this. My husband said he just walked past two of them and coughed "Republicans" at them.
(This is a town that's actually fairly well off, with several manufacturing plants, and there just isn't a huge pool of unskilled unemployed willing labor. The people who can and are willing to work are already working.)
So you imagine things like that happening all across the country, small business people unable to get people to do their work....that's the kind of thing that seems like it could have ballot box effects eventually.
posted by threeturtles at 8:13 PM on June 26, 2017 [22 favorites]
Secondly, as a bit of anecdata, my husband's restaurant has just lost it's landscaping contractor. They're the largest landscaping firm in this small town, they do a lot of the local businesses. Well because the government has put a freeze on issuing H-2B visas (or is cracking down on people outstaying?) they've lost 80% of their workers and can't get more. So they've had to scale WAY back and just drop most of their clients.
So there are a bunch of Republican-voting businessmen grumbling about this. My husband said he just walked past two of them and coughed "Republicans" at them.
(This is a town that's actually fairly well off, with several manufacturing plants, and there just isn't a huge pool of unskilled unemployed willing labor. The people who can and are willing to work are already working.)
So you imagine things like that happening all across the country, small business people unable to get people to do their work....that's the kind of thing that seems like it could have ballot box effects eventually.
posted by threeturtles at 8:13 PM on June 26, 2017 [22 favorites]
Poll: Heller (R-NV) more likely to lose if he supports GOP healthcare bill
A new poll from a Democratic-friendly firm finds Sen. Dean Heller (R-Nev.) is more likely to be defeated in the upcoming 2018 midterms if he votes for the Republican bill to repeal and replace ObamaCare.posted by Barack Spinoza at 8:19 PM on June 26, 2017 [8 favorites]
Fifty percent of Nevada voters said they are less likely to vote for Heller if he backs the Senate GOP bill, according to a survey by Public Policy Polling. Forty-two percent of voters said they were more likely to vote for his opponent, Rep. Jacky Rosen (D-Nev.), because she voted against the House’s version of the bill last month.
> So you imagine things like that happening all across the country, small business people unable to get people to do their work....that's the kind of thing that seems like it could have ballot box effects eventually.
I wouldn't hold out hope for anything from that direction. Typically the small-business-owner class reacts to the failures of the fascist policies they demand by demanding more fascism.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:19 PM on June 26, 2017 [8 favorites]
I wouldn't hold out hope for anything from that direction. Typically the small-business-owner class reacts to the failures of the fascist policies they demand by demanding more fascism.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:19 PM on June 26, 2017 [8 favorites]
It feels like we've been hearing that turn of phrase a lot lately.
Maybe it's a tell for those who did agree to Trump's loyalty pledge.
posted by rhizome at 8:23 PM on June 26, 2017
Maybe it's a tell for those who did agree to Trump's loyalty pledge.
posted by rhizome at 8:23 PM on June 26, 2017
Adding to previous comment. I imagine the conversations going something like this.
Intel people: We have credible info that Assad is planning another thing.
Trump: who?
WH person: Mr President this is serious. We bombed them last time for this.
Trump gets excited: Oh yes. Yes. I did! And my ratings went up. They said I became President!
Another wh person and intel person: We need to figure out what to do I'll get the required people and we'll work up some plans and bring them to you Mr President.
Trump suddenly realizes he's President again and should be serious, 'Yes, yes. You do that. This is serious.'
Trump gets distracted "Oh look they're talking about me on the TV again. Everyone shut up'
Excuses himself to work up a tweet.
.....a while later....
Trump to whatever advisor that's in favour this week: "Oh we should do something about Syria. It will help my ratings and I get to be President again"
Advisor: Sir the intel and military are working up some plans they will be....
Trump: NO WE WILL DO THIS NOW. Go and write something about how he better not do it OR ELSE.
Other advisor who is trying to get back into favour: Yes Mister President this will also help with the news talking about the bad things.
Other advisor: Um we really should consult and wait....
Trump: I AM THE PRESIDENT. DO. WHAT. I. SAY
advisors: Okay.
Trump: I'm getting some ice cream now. Bye.
posted by Jalliah at 8:23 PM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
small business people unable to get people to do their work....that's the kind of thing that seems like it could have ballot box effects eventually.
Ugh. My dad, who was a small business owner for decades, has hired under the table, currently works under the table, and rails against illegal immigrants stealing jobs. The hypocrisy is astounding.
posted by greermahoney at 8:25 PM on June 26, 2017 [42 favorites]
Ugh. My dad, who was a small business owner for decades, has hired under the table, currently works under the table, and rails against illegal immigrants stealing jobs. The hypocrisy is astounding.
posted by greermahoney at 8:25 PM on June 26, 2017 [42 favorites]
Sorry to disappoint but I think the ticking was about the WaPo story of the FBI's 10-hour questioning of Carter Page. This is notable because the FBI 1) thought as of March that the Steele dossier was worth investigating and 2) didn't just cut the questioning short on account of Page being a loon. They must have thought they were getting something out of it.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 8:38 PM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 8:38 PM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Everyone is just starting to get used to not having rights, I guess.
As Peter Gabriel sagely phrased it in his monkey-shocking days, "Don't like it but I guess I'm learning."
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:45 PM on June 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
As Peter Gabriel sagely phrased it in his monkey-shocking days, "Don't like it but I guess I'm learning."
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:45 PM on June 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
TICK TICK TICK... Where's the kaboom?
In other issues, Tom of Born to Run the Numbers thinks Mitch McConnell is crafting a winning strategy. By losing fast.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:59 PM on June 26, 2017 [9 favorites]
In other issues, Tom of Born to Run the Numbers thinks Mitch McConnell is crafting a winning strategy. By losing fast.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:59 PM on June 26, 2017 [9 favorites]
Was the ACA ever touted as a universial healthcare system in any big way? Am I wrong in thinking it not? I'm trying to figure out why some people I'm speaking with right now are arguing that it is. I'm confused.
posted by Jalliah at 9:10 PM on June 26, 2017
What if when the GOP abandons the health care question, the Dems introduce a bill, developed by 13 white guys in secret, that un-fucks all the GOP sabotage of the ACA? Can't really complain about the process, and can't claim not to care about health care...
posted by ctmf at 9:14 PM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by ctmf at 9:14 PM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm amenable to the lose fast and move on idea, but losing trims the tax relief (to rich people) McConnell can offer later, and it costs him his one get it done via reconciliation play. That's a lot to pay for a headfake.
posted by notyou at 9:16 PM on June 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by notyou at 9:16 PM on June 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
TICK TICK TICK... Where's the kaboom?
no boom today, boom tomorrow. there's always a boom tomorrow
posted by entropicamericana at 9:32 PM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
no boom today, boom tomorrow. there's always a boom tomorrow
posted by entropicamericana at 9:32 PM on June 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump: "From @FoxNews "Bombshell: In 2016, Obama dismissed idea that anyone could rig an American election." Check out his statement - Witch Hunt!"
This does not appear to be a person who is overly concerned about the chemical weapons threat his office just issued a warning over.
posted by zachlipton at 9:49 PM on June 26, 2017 [16 favorites]
This does not appear to be a person who is overly concerned about the chemical weapons threat his office just issued a warning over.
posted by zachlipton at 9:49 PM on June 26, 2017 [16 favorites]
Regarding tick tick, I personally would be happy to just pause the whole Russia thing for a week and focus on healthcare. Yeah, we can do multiple things at once, but what appears on the front pages and fills the hours of the cable news stations is, to at least some extent, zero sum. At this particular moment what needs our attention most acutely is the health bill, and to be honest, with Mueller et al on the case, the Russia thing can kind of drive itself every now and then. I'm not against discussing it all here, of course, but if the newspapers were briefly sitting on a bit of Russia kaboom to let the health debate breathe a while before knocking it off the front pages again, I'd be okay with that.
posted by chortly at 10:04 PM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by chortly at 10:04 PM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
JackFlash: "You really don't know what the vote was for in the Trump case since it is unsigned. One might guess it was unanimous because no one bothered to write a dissent, but there is not way to really know."
Note that there was a separate opinion by Thomas, joined by Alito and Gorsuch, which would have permitted the ban to stand for all travelers. I think we can thus safely assume the per curiam was not unanimous.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:08 PM on June 26, 2017 [12 favorites]
Note that there was a separate opinion by Thomas, joined by Alito and Gorsuch, which would have permitted the ban to stand for all travelers. I think we can thus safely assume the per curiam was not unanimous.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:08 PM on June 26, 2017 [12 favorites]
Pony request: can we not talk about tick tick guy any more and instead just talk about whatever important relevant story that drops if and when it does?
posted by biogeo at 10:18 PM on June 26, 2017 [66 favorites]
posted by biogeo at 10:18 PM on June 26, 2017 [66 favorites]
I wouldn't hold out hope for anything from that direction. Typically the small-business-owner class reacts to the failures of the fascist policies they demand by demanding more fascism.
Hi, small business owner here. Without getting into specific numbers, let's just say I perfectly fit the Repub Middle America ideal of the small business owner (aside from the pesky fact that I'm not white and my parents are immigrants). I'm about as socialist as they come, so, you know. Small business owners contain multitudes.
posted by CommonSense at 11:35 PM on June 26, 2017 [17 favorites]
Hi, small business owner here. Without getting into specific numbers, let's just say I perfectly fit the Repub Middle America ideal of the small business owner (aside from the pesky fact that I'm not white and my parents are immigrants). I'm about as socialist as they come, so, you know. Small business owners contain multitudes.
posted by CommonSense at 11:35 PM on June 26, 2017 [17 favorites]
But Steve Jobs only had a $1 salary! Surely Apple is the true standard-bearer for socialism.
posted by rhizome at 12:24 AM on June 27, 2017
posted by rhizome at 12:24 AM on June 27, 2017
@realDonaldTrump: "From @FoxNews "Bombshell: In 2016, Obama dismissed idea that anyone could rig an American election." Check out his statement - Witch Hunt!"
I'm a bit confused here (i.e. even a bit more than usually with Trump's tweets).
What is he trying to say? That he is accused of rigging the election, so if Obama stated in 2016 that this isn't possible, it must be a witch hunt?
Because, to my best recollection, it was Trump who consistently accused the Democrats of rigging the election, not the other way around. So, if Trump agrees that rigging the election isn't possible, that makes Trump the witch hunter, and not the witch. Although, I suppose that in these confusing times, Trump might be witch hunter and witch at the same time.
On further thought, maybe spreading confusion is the whole point of this tweet.
posted by sour cream at 1:25 AM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm a bit confused here (i.e. even a bit more than usually with Trump's tweets).
What is he trying to say? That he is accused of rigging the election, so if Obama stated in 2016 that this isn't possible, it must be a witch hunt?
Because, to my best recollection, it was Trump who consistently accused the Democrats of rigging the election, not the other way around. So, if Trump agrees that rigging the election isn't possible, that makes Trump the witch hunter, and not the witch. Although, I suppose that in these confusing times, Trump might be witch hunter and witch at the same time.
On further thought, maybe spreading confusion is the whole point of this tweet.
posted by sour cream at 1:25 AM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
That's right... he's just trying to blow smoke up your covfefe.
posted by Too-Ticky at 1:33 AM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Too-Ticky at 1:33 AM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
Also remember Trump's Mirror: in his lifetime career of being an unconvicted felon, he has done EVERYTHING that he has accused anybody else of...
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:57 AM on June 27, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:57 AM on June 27, 2017 [16 favorites]
Guys, I'm starting to feel something which resembles the approach of hope about the failure of Trumpcare. Please stop me before I hope again. I can't take another crushing disappointment.
But a bunch of Republicans sounded like they were giving actual Nos and not John McCain Concerned Nos today? And saying they would vote against the MTP? Help.
posted by Justinian at 2:10 AM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
But a bunch of Republicans sounded like they were giving actual Nos and not John McCain Concerned Nos today? And saying they would vote against the MTP? Help.
posted by Justinian at 2:10 AM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
A nice thread by Ben Winkler (Moveon.org) about the little sit in on the Capitol steps tonight. It's a stunt to be sure, but not a bad one.
posted by zachlipton at 2:17 AM on June 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 2:17 AM on June 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
Don't hope, Justinian; call your senators instead. I might call my house rep too; she voted against the house bill. (McCain did give his usual,btw, and Tuesday is still early in the week.)
posted by nat at 2:25 AM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by nat at 2:25 AM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Senators Feinstein and Harris are, I think its fair to say, solid no votes!
posted by Justinian at 2:30 AM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 2:30 AM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
Ok, then ask them to send notes to Heller.
posted by nat at 2:34 AM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by nat at 2:34 AM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Bumper Sticker seen today:
Elect a Clown
Expect a Circus
posted by wittgenstein at 3:00 AM on June 27, 2017 [71 favorites]
Elect a Clown
Expect a Circus
posted by wittgenstein at 3:00 AM on June 27, 2017 [71 favorites]
They don't want to lose access, and thus, lose audience
Woodward and Bernstein broke Watergate from the fucking Metro desk. Farenthold won the Pulitzer calling charities and using Twitter to crowdsource. Fuck access, I don't give a shit if they get invited to D.C. parties. Do your fucking jobs.
posted by chris24 at 3:15 AM on June 27, 2017 [86 favorites]
Woodward and Bernstein broke Watergate from the fucking Metro desk. Farenthold won the Pulitzer calling charities and using Twitter to crowdsource. Fuck access, I don't give a shit if they get invited to D.C. parties. Do your fucking jobs.
posted by chris24 at 3:15 AM on June 27, 2017 [86 favorites]
If I lost my job, COBRA for my family would be about $1100 per month, which is, I suspect, less than what insurance would cost us on the individual market. Not terrific, but not horrific either.
Some perspective from Scandinavia: if I lost my job, my benefits would amount to less than half of what I get now. But I would also move to another, lower tax bracket. So my entire income taxes, which cover full healthcare for me and kids, education for kids up til Phd level, basic (not generous) pension for me, and home care services would amount to $1250. But then that also has to cover other government expenses like military and infrastructure. The US system is not only evil, it is also wasteful.
I pay more in taxes now, but I find that fair.
Something mostly different: yesterday I heard a professor of something talk on the radio about the current culture of lies. He had a different perspective. He said that obviously, the assault on facts started with the Bush presidency (remember the famous quote about the reality based community). But what he was noticing now was a steep decline in content in political discourse. It's not only Trump who mangles words, it is politicians and pundits across the globe. While politicians during the Bush era would use highschool level speech, now many have degraded to a third grade level of communication. Paradoxically, perhaps, his impression was that communications people are leading the way here, rather than the politicians themselves. So basically it's dumbing down all the way to nonsense, as advised by spin doctors.
posted by mumimor at 3:23 AM on June 27, 2017 [22 favorites]
Some perspective from Scandinavia: if I lost my job, my benefits would amount to less than half of what I get now. But I would also move to another, lower tax bracket. So my entire income taxes, which cover full healthcare for me and kids, education for kids up til Phd level, basic (not generous) pension for me, and home care services would amount to $1250. But then that also has to cover other government expenses like military and infrastructure. The US system is not only evil, it is also wasteful.
I pay more in taxes now, but I find that fair.
Something mostly different: yesterday I heard a professor of something talk on the radio about the current culture of lies. He had a different perspective. He said that obviously, the assault on facts started with the Bush presidency (remember the famous quote about the reality based community). But what he was noticing now was a steep decline in content in political discourse. It's not only Trump who mangles words, it is politicians and pundits across the globe. While politicians during the Bush era would use highschool level speech, now many have degraded to a third grade level of communication. Paradoxically, perhaps, his impression was that communications people are leading the way here, rather than the politicians themselves. So basically it's dumbing down all the way to nonsense, as advised by spin doctors.
posted by mumimor at 3:23 AM on June 27, 2017 [22 favorites]
More tales from the swamp...
posted by Mister Bijou at 3:49 AM on June 27, 2017 [50 favorites]
Telemarketers for the nonprofit, Christian Advocates Serving Evangelism (Case), were instructed in contracts signed by Sekulow to urge people who pleaded poverty or said they were out of work to dig deep for a “sacrificial gift”.Trump lawyer's firm steered millions in donations to family members, files show (Grauniad)
“I can certainly understand how that would make it difficult for you to share a gift like that right now,” they told retirees who said they were on fixed incomes and had “no extra money” – before asking if they could spare “even $20 within the next three weeks”.
In addition to using tens of millions of dollars in donations to pay Sekulow, his wife, his sons, his brother, his sister-in-law, his niece and nephew, and their firms, Case has also been used to provide a series of unusual loans and property deals to the Sekulow family.
posted by Mister Bijou at 3:49 AM on June 27, 2017 [50 favorites]
Three CNN journalists resign over retracted Trump-Russia story
So what is this all about? Smoke / fire etc.
posted by adamvasco at 4:20 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
So what is this all about? Smoke / fire etc.
posted by adamvasco at 4:20 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
They don't want to lose access, and thus, lose audience.
Then let the fucking word go forth from this time and place, to friend and foe alike: any news outlet who goes to the next cameras-off briefing and turns their cameras on has my subscription money until the day I die. Any outlet who leaves their camera off, I'm boycotting their advertisers.
Is this something that can be crowdfunded? Like, someone sets up a fund to award to whichever news outlet wins the Who Will Turn the Cameras On contest...
(Or I dunno, maybe it runs into some kind of legally iffy territory or is not "the right way" to fight this fight, etc etc.)
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 4:22 AM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Then let the fucking word go forth from this time and place, to friend and foe alike: any news outlet who goes to the next cameras-off briefing and turns their cameras on has my subscription money until the day I die. Any outlet who leaves their camera off, I'm boycotting their advertisers.
Is this something that can be crowdfunded? Like, someone sets up a fund to award to whichever news outlet wins the Who Will Turn the Cameras On contest...
(Or I dunno, maybe it runs into some kind of legally iffy territory or is not "the right way" to fight this fight, etc etc.)
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 4:22 AM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Fuck access, I don't give a shit if they get invited to D.C. parties. Do your fucking jobs.
Mmmmmmyyyeah see that kind of thinking is going to inhibit your rise to the executive washroom in Television news. Where do you think Les Moonves and Jeff "Twitnabler" Zucker share amusing anecdotes about hapless staffers? (The answer is: "Anywhere they want")
posted by petebest at 5:26 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Mmmmmmyyyeah see that kind of thinking is going to inhibit your rise to the executive washroom in Television news. Where do you think Les Moonves and Jeff "Twitnabler" Zucker share amusing anecdotes about hapless staffers? (The answer is: "Anywhere they want")
posted by petebest at 5:26 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
So what is this all about? Smoke / fire etc.
It's what should always be happening: responsible self-policing of journalistic standards and maintaining professional integrity.
A story was published on the CNN website that was only single-sourced. Whether the information is right or wrong, single-sourcing in actual journalism essentially equates to "a rumor" and running a story with only that supporting evidence was not responsible.
When called out on it, CNN retracted the initial story, issued apologies to aggrieved parties, and requested the resignation of the writers who submitted the story and the supervisor who allowed it to happen.
posted by Freon at 5:31 AM on June 27, 2017 [13 favorites]
It's what should always be happening: responsible self-policing of journalistic standards and maintaining professional integrity.
A story was published on the CNN website that was only single-sourced. Whether the information is right or wrong, single-sourcing in actual journalism essentially equates to "a rumor" and running a story with only that supporting evidence was not responsible.
When called out on it, CNN retracted the initial story, issued apologies to aggrieved parties, and requested the resignation of the writers who submitted the story and the supervisor who allowed it to happen.
posted by Freon at 5:31 AM on June 27, 2017 [13 favorites]
Republicans eye billions in side deals to win Obamacare repeal votes
The party of fiscal conservatives resorting to outright bribery. This is how the "moderates" will fold unless forced
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:34 AM on June 27, 2017 [30 favorites]
The party of fiscal conservatives resorting to outright bribery. This is how the "moderates" will fold unless forced
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:34 AM on June 27, 2017 [30 favorites]
It's what should always be happening: responsible self-policing of journalistic standards and maintaining professional integrity.
For a network that almost single-handedly foisted Trump on us, that seemsa little way too generous.
That brisket's not sittin' right.
posted by petebest at 5:38 AM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
For a network that almost single-handedly foisted Trump on us, that seems
That brisket's not sittin' right.
posted by petebest at 5:38 AM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Sekulow is a member of Jews for Jesus. I wonder how Jared and Ivanka feel about him being around considering if there's one group Orthodox Jews do not like it's them.
posted by PenDevil at 5:40 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by PenDevil at 5:40 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
That's what the "should" part is for, petebest.
posted by Freon at 5:42 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Freon at 5:42 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Alex Horton: The Pentagon promised citizenship to immigrants who served. Now it might help deport them.
The Pentagon is considering a plan to cancel enlistment contracts for 1,000 foreign-born recruits without legal immigration status, knowingly exposing them to deportation, a Defense Department memo shows.posted by zombieflanders at 5:51 AM on June 27, 2017 [28 favorites]
The undated action memo, prepared for Defense Secretary Jim Mattis by personnel and intelligence officials at the Pentagon and obtained by The Washington Post, describes potential security threats of immigrants recruited in a program designed to award fast-tracked citizenship in exchange for urgently needed medical and language skills.
Additionally, 4,100 troops — most of whom are naturalized citizens — may face “enhanced screening,” though the Pentagon voiced concern on how to navigate “significant legal constraints” of “continuous monitoring” of citizens without cause, according to the memo.
Officials have assigned threat level tiers to the nearly 10,000 Military Accessions Vital to National Interest (MAVNI) program recruits, both in the service and waiting to serve, based on characteristics like proximity to classified information or how thoroughly they have been vetted.
Sekulow is a member of Jews for Jesus. I wonder how Jared and Ivanka feel about him being around considering if there's one group Orthodox Jews do not like it's them.
They probably couldn't care less. Orthodox they are not, outside of the occasional puff piece.
posted by rc3spencer at 5:53 AM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
They probably couldn't care less. Orthodox they are not, outside of the occasional puff piece.
posted by rc3spencer at 5:53 AM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Sekulow is a member of Jews for Jesus
Jesus. (ahem) It's like with these people someone just dumped a big bag of All The Worst Things into a blender, whirled it all around, and poured out several big tall glasses of Grifter. Is there no shady, weird, unseemly, bizarre shit someone in his orbit is not heavily involved in?
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:53 AM on June 27, 2017 [28 favorites]
Jesus. (ahem) It's like with these people someone just dumped a big bag of All The Worst Things into a blender, whirled it all around, and poured out several big tall glasses of Grifter. Is there no shady, weird, unseemly, bizarre shit someone in his orbit is not heavily involved in?
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:53 AM on June 27, 2017 [28 favorites]
Amway?
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:02 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:02 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
How Betsy DeVos Used God and Amway to Take Over Michigan Politics (Zack Stanton, Politico)
posted by Barack Spinoza at 6:03 AM on June 27, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by Barack Spinoza at 6:03 AM on June 27, 2017 [28 favorites]
Oh heck no. Amway is all up in Trumpworld via the DeVos family and Blackwater.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:06 AM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:06 AM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
McConnell on the Ropes. For Now. (Josh Marshall, TPM)
For the last several days I’ve been saying that I thought it was much more likely than not that McConnell would succeed in passing the Trumpcare bill this week, even as I said over the weekend that McConnell was running into more turbulence than I’d expected. Yesterday evening the tide turned. The odds of passing the bill this week now seem stacked against McConnell. This is a critical breakthrough for the opponents of the bill and the 22-24 million people who stand to lose their health care coverage. But so far it’s only a limited and temporary victory if it even happens, which is no sure thing.posted by Barack Spinoza at 6:08 AM on June 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
> Is this this the end of Yertel McChinless?
Naw. They're gonna find some way to pass this in some form and then get to work on how they can blame the aftermath on anyone but themselves by the time 2018 rolls around.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:11 AM on June 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
Naw. They're gonna find some way to pass this in some form and then get to work on how they can blame the aftermath on anyone but themselves by the time 2018 rolls around.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:11 AM on June 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
Is it effective to have protest marches and rallies around the residences of Presidential staff? Wondering because I remember hearing about them happening to Karl Rove.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:12 AM on June 27, 2017
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:12 AM on June 27, 2017
Trump repeatedly asserted the election was *going* to be "rigged"
That was going to be his 'it wasn't me it was the rigged election' card when he expected to lose to HRC.
posted by PenDevil at 6:16 AM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
That was going to be his 'it wasn't me it was the rigged election' card when he expected to lose to HRC.
posted by PenDevil at 6:16 AM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
I keep reflecting on how perversely lucky we are that it's Trump in office instead of someone with even the slightest degree of intelligence, ability, or willingness to work.
If Trump were even 1/1000th of the dealmaker he claims to be he'd have peeled off enough Vichy Democrats to pass the Republican death bill, and in the process quite possibly have ratfucked the Democratic party enough that they'd be a pushover in 2018 and 2020.
There's at least 1/3 of the Congressional Democrats who are such (from my POV) spineless bipartisanship worshipers and stab us in the back traitors (or, from the POV of certain others pragmatic and wise people doing what's necessary to be a Democrat in a conservative district) that it would take the smallest table scraps to induce them to vote for the death bill.
If Trump had spent even a tiny fraction of the time, effort, and gladhand wooing of Democrats that Obama did wooing Republicans for the ACA he'd have more than enough votes to make up for the loss of the Teabaggers.
And it wouldn't take hardly any significant changes to the death bill. Just a few tiny, mostly empty, gestures to humanitarianism and actually giving people healthcare and some personal attention and praise to "Democrats" like Manchin.
Trump would get his death bill, and in the process he'd utterly sabotage Democratic efforts in 2018 and 2020. Us on the left would be howling for traitor blood and demanding primaries, those on the sensible middle would be screaming at us that we were idiots, and the Democrats would get their collective asses handed to them in the 2018 elections.
Fortunately, Trump is a lazy, shortsighted, abysmally ignorant, asshole who simply expected the Democrats to vote for his death bill and bail him out and when they didn't is now going around whining that those mean ole Democrats won't save him from his own party.
If we were going to get a wannabe Fascist and all around evil scumbag as president, I think a case can be made that we were lucky to get Trump instead of someone competent and capable.
posted by sotonohito at 6:16 AM on June 27, 2017 [29 favorites]
If Trump were even 1/1000th of the dealmaker he claims to be he'd have peeled off enough Vichy Democrats to pass the Republican death bill, and in the process quite possibly have ratfucked the Democratic party enough that they'd be a pushover in 2018 and 2020.
There's at least 1/3 of the Congressional Democrats who are such (from my POV) spineless bipartisanship worshipers and stab us in the back traitors (or, from the POV of certain others pragmatic and wise people doing what's necessary to be a Democrat in a conservative district) that it would take the smallest table scraps to induce them to vote for the death bill.
If Trump had spent even a tiny fraction of the time, effort, and gladhand wooing of Democrats that Obama did wooing Republicans for the ACA he'd have more than enough votes to make up for the loss of the Teabaggers.
And it wouldn't take hardly any significant changes to the death bill. Just a few tiny, mostly empty, gestures to humanitarianism and actually giving people healthcare and some personal attention and praise to "Democrats" like Manchin.
Trump would get his death bill, and in the process he'd utterly sabotage Democratic efforts in 2018 and 2020. Us on the left would be howling for traitor blood and demanding primaries, those on the sensible middle would be screaming at us that we were idiots, and the Democrats would get their collective asses handed to them in the 2018 elections.
Fortunately, Trump is a lazy, shortsighted, abysmally ignorant, asshole who simply expected the Democrats to vote for his death bill and bail him out and when they didn't is now going around whining that those mean ole Democrats won't save him from his own party.
If we were going to get a wannabe Fascist and all around evil scumbag as president, I think a case can be made that we were lucky to get Trump instead of someone competent and capable.
posted by sotonohito at 6:16 AM on June 27, 2017 [29 favorites]
On further thought, maybe spreading confusion is the whole point of this tweet.
I think you'd be better served thinking that Trump is a dumbshit who says whatever feels good to say at the moment and not that his words have any real strategic purpose.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:19 AM on June 27, 2017 [19 favorites]
I think you'd be better served thinking that Trump is a dumbshit who says whatever feels good to say at the moment and not that his words have any real strategic purpose.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:19 AM on June 27, 2017 [19 favorites]
Peter Overby/NPR: Mixing Business And The Presidency, Trump To Hold Fundraiser At His Washington Hotel
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:21 AM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:21 AM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
Scott Lemieux: Hacktacular!
posted by tonycpsu at 6:31 AM on June 27, 2017 [35 favorites]
Roy’s answer to the CBO analysis that 22 million people would lose insurance under the BCRA in order to fund a massive upper-class tax cut is quite simply pathetic:Jonathan Chait: The Defenses of the Senate Health-Care Plan Are Pathetically DishonestIt’s likely that, if the Senate bill passes, more Americans will have health insurance five years from now than do today. [100 eyeroll emojis — ed.]The flaw in the CBO’s analysis is that…it’s scoring the bill being proposed by Senate Republicans, as opposed to some hypothetical bill passed by a future Congress that would provide more generous subsidies for the poor rather than brutalizing the poor to pay for an upper-class tax cut. It’s embarrassing that Roy would type this shit and it’s embarrassing that the Times would publish it.
The Congressional Budget Office believes that solely because Republicans would repeal the A.C.A.’s individual mandate, by 2026, more than 15 million fewer people will buy health insurance, regardless of what senators do to direct more financial assistance to the poor and the vulnerable. That’s not a flaw in the Senate bill; it’s a flaw in the C.B.O.’s methods.
Even for those of us inured to the effects of right-wing propaganda, it is bizarre to watch a party attempt to carry out a major welfare-state rollback while fervently insisting the welfare state will not be rolled back a single inch.Once again: hecukva job, NYT.
The task of giving an intellectual sheen to this facially absurd message has fallen upon Republican health-care adviser Avik Roy, who has sold the Senate bill in an enthusiastic media blitz. (I asked Roy this morning if he help the Senate leadership write its bill; he has not yet replied.) [...]
Update: Roy emails back: “As a matter of policy, I don’t discuss with the press my conversations with policymakers.” So, if you’re curious whether he helped write the plan he has been touting in a number of op-eds and interviews, Roy isn’t saying, but “yes” seems like a fairly safe assumption.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:31 AM on June 27, 2017 [35 favorites]
Re: CNN retraction,
Internally, the backlash from the botched story apparently prompted a firestorm. BuzzFeed published an internal memo that CNNMoney executive editor Rich Barbieri sent to staff imposing rigid publishing guidelines for any articles “involving Russia.” Any that do must now be run past both Barbieri and Jason Farkas, a CNN vice president, according to to the memo.
Emphasis added. This stinks. The network that gleefully left cameras running on an empty lecturn for almost every TwoScoops rally instead of covering the HRC rally in progress, the network headed by "The Apprentice" greenlighter and framed-tweet-from-Trump-on-his-wall (and in his heart), Jeff "America Kraken" Zucker, this network - pulled a Russiagate story for journalistic ethics concerns.
First of all, bullshit. Where's the story. Secondly, kind of a weird time/way to show up unconscionably late to the fiesta, eh Zuck?
posted by petebest at 6:39 AM on June 27, 2017 [22 favorites]
Internally, the backlash from the botched story apparently prompted a firestorm. BuzzFeed published an internal memo that CNNMoney executive editor Rich Barbieri sent to staff imposing rigid publishing guidelines for any articles “involving Russia.” Any that do must now be run past both Barbieri and Jason Farkas, a CNN vice president, according to to the memo.
Emphasis added. This stinks. The network that gleefully left cameras running on an empty lecturn for almost every TwoScoops rally instead of covering the HRC rally in progress, the network headed by "The Apprentice" greenlighter and framed-tweet-from-Trump-on-his-wall (and in his heart), Jeff "America Kraken" Zucker, this network - pulled a Russiagate story for journalistic ethics concerns.
First of all, bullshit. Where's the story. Secondly, kind of a weird time/way to show up unconscionably late to the fiesta, eh Zuck?
posted by petebest at 6:39 AM on June 27, 2017 [22 favorites]
Re press access: I believe the best play here is to find the most humiliating footage of DJT and run it every time the news talks about the WH
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:42 AM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:42 AM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
Called Toomey just now, and his Philadelphia line was busy, and his Allentown line appears to be permanently set to FUCK YOU CONSTITUENTS, but I got through to a sleepy-sounding live staffer in Pittsburgh on my first try
Are we likely to move this asshole? No. But I refuse to let straight-up lies like this stand without at least making a staffer take the time to log my call. I just. Toomey on Face the Nation this Sunday:
posted by joyceanmachine at 6:43 AM on June 27, 2017 [53 favorites]
Are we likely to move this asshole? No. But I refuse to let straight-up lies like this stand without at least making a staffer take the time to log my call. I just. Toomey on Face the Nation this Sunday:
Listen, it's going to be a challenge but I have to strongly disagree with the characterization that we are somehow ending the Medicaid expansion. In fact, quite the contrary. The Senate bill will codify and make permanent the Medicaid expansion and in fact we'll have the federal government pay the lion share of the cost. Remember, Obamacare created a new category of eligibility: working aged, able bodied adults with no dependents for the first time became eligible for Medicaid if their income is below 138 percent of the poverty level. We're going to continue that eligibility. No one loses coverage.The CBO says you're a goddamn liar to the tune of 371,800 Pennsylvanians losing their Medicaid coverage by 2026, Pat Toomey.
posted by joyceanmachine at 6:43 AM on June 27, 2017 [53 favorites]
Sorry if this was posted, but this brought a tear to my eye.
Something Remarkable Just Happened On The Capitol Steps In Response To Trumpcare
posted by Twain Device at 6:49 AM on June 27, 2017 [49 favorites]
Something Remarkable Just Happened On The Capitol Steps In Response To Trumpcare
posted by Twain Device at 6:49 AM on June 27, 2017 [49 favorites]
Yeah, Toomey has been at the rotten pus-filled center of this gaping wound and he's not going to change, but I've been sending him maaaaaany postcards basically all saying versions of, "I see you."
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:58 AM on June 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:58 AM on June 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
Something Remarkable Just Happened On The Capitol Steps In Response To Trumpcare
Wow, that is the stuff of history - and movies!
posted by mumimor at 7:06 AM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Wow, that is the stuff of history - and movies!
posted by mumimor at 7:06 AM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
My daughter's mother-in-law spoke about her experienced with Medicaid at a meeting All Franken organized. The parade of stories like her's as well as the statistics showing how common they are is a stunning indictment of the GOP.
posted by Mental Wimp at 7:12 AM on June 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Mental Wimp at 7:12 AM on June 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
"Covfefe" on list of vanity license plates banned in Georgia [real]
And yet they have no problem with license plates that say "CHATTAHOOCHEE" on them.
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:13 AM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
And yet they have no problem with license plates that say "CHATTAHOOCHEE" on them.
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:13 AM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
Jennifer Rubin, WaPo: Three ways to make the Senate bill better — and disappear
Well, yes, this would be an entirely different sort of bill. It wouldn’t seek to extract billions from the health-care system to put back into the pockets of the super-rich. It would allow for Medicaid reform, without eviscerating the program. And it would set out a deliberate, serious process for fixing what Republicans said couldn’t be fixed, but are managing to fix for at least two years. The two-year period would have one more advantage: Obamacare defenders say we have experienced a one-time glitch, a spike in premiums. Let’s test that by seeing whether premium costs level off.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:17 AM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
All Franken all the time...
posted by Mental Wimp at 7:25 AM on June 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Mental Wimp at 7:25 AM on June 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
The retracted CNN story isn't one of the ones I recognize - really they should do a day long special on which Russia stories still stand and which are retracted.
posted by Artw at 7:30 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 7:30 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Josh Marshall/TPM: McConnell On the Ropes. For Now.
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:33 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:33 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Well, here's a bit of good news for Toronto at least....
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:37 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:37 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
"I temporarily stepped aside, just to make sure there was no issue at all, just to give everybody assurance there was no ethical issues at all," he said. "That is not withdrawing, that is not recusing myself from an investigation."
Some small part of me rejoices every time someone in the Trump administration (and let's face it, Nunes is 100 percent a part of the Trump administration at this point) feels the need to get all word-particular and semantic, because it means there's still a tiny part of them that hasn't figured out that they can get away with anything up to and including full-on lying and denying they ever did a thing that they did on broadcast television. Whether that's because the fragments of their soul are still stuck or because they're just too dumb to have realized that they can get away with it, it's a small win.
posted by Etrigan at 7:38 AM on June 27, 2017 [12 favorites]
Some small part of me rejoices every time someone in the Trump administration (and let's face it, Nunes is 100 percent a part of the Trump administration at this point) feels the need to get all word-particular and semantic, because it means there's still a tiny part of them that hasn't figured out that they can get away with anything up to and including full-on lying and denying they ever did a thing that they did on broadcast television. Whether that's because the fragments of their soul are still stuck or because they're just too dumb to have realized that they can get away with it, it's a small win.
posted by Etrigan at 7:38 AM on June 27, 2017 [12 favorites]
"I can make the investigation over", did he say?
posted by Artw at 7:38 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 7:38 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
That the happy face emojis signify[ing] the widespread-suffering-death-and-financial-ruin scenario is a nice touch. And hey, since he’ll have insurance either way and the only question is whether he’ll get a big tax cut, why not?
posted by tonycpsu at 7:44 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by tonycpsu at 7:44 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Mitch McConnell, 'Me' the People.
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:46 AM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:46 AM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
Josh Marshall/TPM: McConnell On the Ropes. For Now.
I can't decide whether time is McConnell's enemy or not. I'm thinking it is. While it's true that this gives him more time to bribe Senators, it also allows the opposition to build momentum. ...and this bill is such a POS that sunlight will not help it grow. It's a more of a mushroom, it thrives in darkness and bullshit.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:46 AM on June 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
I can't decide whether time is McConnell's enemy or not. I'm thinking it is. While it's true that this gives him more time to bribe Senators, it also allows the opposition to build momentum. ...and this bill is such a POS that sunlight will not help it grow. It's a more of a mushroom, it thrives in darkness and bullshit.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:46 AM on June 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
CNN: Devin Nunes: I can 'take the investigation over' after stepping aside
Let's play everyone's favorite game: Compromised or Blithering Moron?
Remember, it can also be BOTH!
posted by leotrotsky at 7:49 AM on June 27, 2017 [22 favorites]
Let's play everyone's favorite game: Compromised or Blithering Moron?
Remember, it can also be BOTH!
posted by leotrotsky at 7:49 AM on June 27, 2017 [22 favorites]
I can't decide whether time is McConnell's enemy or not
He clearly thinks time is his enemy, otherwise he wouldn't have written the bill in secret, dropped it on us suddenly and looked like he was trying to force a vote in a week or two. The worst part about time is that it's more time for Trump to have one of his moments of odd clarity where someone tells him the truth about the bill and he's like: jeez that's mean.
posted by dis_integration at 7:49 AM on June 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
He clearly thinks time is his enemy, otherwise he wouldn't have written the bill in secret, dropped it on us suddenly and looked like he was trying to force a vote in a week or two. The worst part about time is that it's more time for Trump to have one of his moments of odd clarity where someone tells him the truth about the bill and he's like: jeez that's mean.
posted by dis_integration at 7:49 AM on June 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
There's something very seriously broken inside of Devin Nunes, like he's 100% certain of this reality where he's the slickest operator around and is absolutely oblivious to the fact that to everyone else he's complete clown shoes and every action he makes further solidifies that. If Mr. Bean had an evil mirror universe doppelganger it would be Devin Nunes.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:49 AM on June 27, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 7:49 AM on June 27, 2017 [22 favorites]
There's something very seriously broken inside of Devin Nunes...
I believe the correct term is "He is Carter Paging himself".
posted by PenDevil at 7:52 AM on June 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
I believe the correct term is "He is Carter Paging himself".
posted by PenDevil at 7:52 AM on June 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
If Mr. Bean had an evil mirror universe doppelganger it would be Devin Nunes.
You're looking for Blackadder. From one of the early series where he's stupid and venal, as opposed to the later ones where he's smart and venal.
posted by joyceanmachine at 7:54 AM on June 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
You're looking for Blackadder. From one of the early series where he's stupid and venal, as opposed to the later ones where he's smart and venal.
posted by joyceanmachine at 7:54 AM on June 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
Here's something weird: Deb Jordan, Pete Santilli's (remember him?) old girlfriend is planning a pro-Bundy/anti-government rally in Las Vegas on July 15 and the guest list includes Roger Stone, Michele Fiore, Sean Stone, Adam Kokesh, and Mike Adams. Of the five, one, Sean Stone, currently has an RT show; another, Kokesh, had an RT show, and a third, Adams, has never met a conspiracy theory he didn't like. And Roger Stone is Roger Stone. Fiore is the calendar girl.
I've archived Jordan's Facebook announcement.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:54 AM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
I've archived Jordan's Facebook announcement.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:54 AM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
I can't decide whether time is McConnell's enemy or not
I mean history will certainly be his enemy.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:05 AM on June 27, 2017 [13 favorites]
I mean history will certainly be his enemy.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:05 AM on June 27, 2017 [13 favorites]
> If we were going to get a wannabe Fascist and all around evil scumbag as president, I think a case can be made that we were lucky to get Trump instead of someone competent and capable.
Given the havoc wreaked by the incompetent and incapable president so far, I think a case can be made that a democracy is a much more fragile, higher-maintenance structure than we thought.
posted by klarck at 8:08 AM on June 27, 2017 [16 favorites]
Given the havoc wreaked by the incompetent and incapable president so far, I think a case can be made that a democracy is a much more fragile, higher-maintenance structure than we thought.
posted by klarck at 8:08 AM on June 27, 2017 [16 favorites]
This morning:
@realDonaldTrump
Fake News CNN is looking at big management changes now that they got caught falsely pushing their phony Russian stories. Ratings way down!
So they caught Fake News CNN cold, but what about NBC, CBS & ABC? What about the failing @nytimes & @washingtonpost? They are all Fake News!
This evening:
Joe Concha, The Hill: CNN bills the special as "the first comprehensive telling on television of Russia's attack on the 2016 race, with jarring lessons for American leaders and the public about more attacks to come." [...] "The Russian Connection: Inside the Attack on Democracy" will air Tuesday night at 10:00 p.m. ET.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:13 AM on June 27, 2017 [29 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump
Fake News CNN is looking at big management changes now that they got caught falsely pushing their phony Russian stories. Ratings way down!
So they caught Fake News CNN cold, but what about NBC, CBS & ABC? What about the failing @nytimes & @washingtonpost? They are all Fake News!
This evening:
Joe Concha, The Hill: CNN bills the special as "the first comprehensive telling on television of Russia's attack on the 2016 race, with jarring lessons for American leaders and the public about more attacks to come." [...] "The Russian Connection: Inside the Attack on Democracy" will air Tuesday night at 10:00 p.m. ET.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:13 AM on June 27, 2017 [29 favorites]
When they drag him from the White House in cuffs, he'll be screaming FAKE NEWS FAKE NEWS all the way out.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:17 AM on June 27, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by octobersurprise at 8:17 AM on June 27, 2017 [23 favorites]
As always, the worst thing he can bring himself to say about an organization that he believes to be his enemy is "Ratings way down!" What a fucking child.
posted by Etrigan at 8:19 AM on June 27, 2017 [33 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 8:19 AM on June 27, 2017 [33 favorites]
From your keyboard to God's ear,October surprise.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 8:20 AM on June 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 8:20 AM on June 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
What about the failing @nytimes & @washingtonpost? They are all Fake News!
I've been meaning to reward the Washington Post with a subscription. This just motivated me to pull out my credit card and get it done.
posted by diogenes at 8:22 AM on June 27, 2017 [10 favorites]
I've been meaning to reward the Washington Post with a subscription. This just motivated me to pull out my credit card and get it done.
posted by diogenes at 8:22 AM on June 27, 2017 [10 favorites]
If you have Amazon Prime, you can get 6 months of WaPo free and then a discounted sub of $3.99/mo instead of $9.99/mo.
posted by Talez at 8:25 AM on June 27, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Talez at 8:25 AM on June 27, 2017 [10 favorites]
So they caught Fake News CNN cold, but what about NBC, CBS & ABC? What about the failing @nytimes & @washingtonpost? They are all Fake News!
Jesus, I miss the days when we weren't being governed by the living embodiment of my right-wing cousin's godawful Facebook posts.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 8:25 AM on June 27, 2017 [36 favorites]
Jesus, I miss the days when we weren't being governed by the living embodiment of my right-wing cousin's godawful Facebook posts.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 8:25 AM on June 27, 2017 [36 favorites]
Amazon's page for Washington Post Prime access.
posted by Talez at 8:25 AM on June 27, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by Talez at 8:25 AM on June 27, 2017 [18 favorites]
If you have Amazon Prime, you can get 6 months of WaPo free and then a discounted sub of $3.99/mo instead of $9.99/mo.
Damn, too late! I just paid $99 for the year. Oh well, it's going to a good cause :)
posted by diogenes at 8:27 AM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Damn, too late! I just paid $99 for the year. Oh well, it's going to a good cause :)
posted by diogenes at 8:27 AM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Damn, too late! I just paid $99 for the year. Oh well, it's going to a good cause :)
Just think of it as paying for one degree of Fahrenthold and a Petri dish.
posted by Etrigan at 8:29 AM on June 27, 2017 [23 favorites]
Just think of it as paying for one degree of Fahrenthold and a Petri dish.
posted by Etrigan at 8:29 AM on June 27, 2017 [23 favorites]
All Things Considered ran a piece yesterday about potential loss of jobs in Ohio from the heathcare legislation. Now, it's not as hardhitting as it would have been if written by the pixel-stained wretches of Metafilter. However, around the 8 min mark in the 9 minute piece, one could hear the engines of capitalism giving a big Fuck You to rural Americans. An anonymous source in the hospital business suggested that small hospitals should just disappear. (Hey, it would be more "efficient".)
posted by puddledork at 8:31 AM on June 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by puddledork at 8:31 AM on June 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
Meanwhile, in Maine:
The State of Maine is set to shut down for an undermined period starting Friday night, because legislators cannot agree on a budget that Paul Lepage will not veto.
The main sticking point is over education funding, along with policy changes that include a Republican led effort to revive a statewide teacher contract pilot program that was rejected by the legislature in May. In November, Maine voters narrowly approved a 3% tax surcharge on income over $200,000, all of which is earmarked for public education in the state. It is estimated that the surcharge would raise an additional $157M for public education, in a state where the bulk of local education budget currently comes from property taxes.
Republicans want to fully repeal the tax, and have instead pledged to increase the State contribution to education funding by $100M over two years. Dems will only agree to the repeal if the budget commits $200M over the same period.
In May, 54 Maine House members pledged to oppose any budget that does not fund 55% of the cost of public education in the state. However, as much as the R's try to blame the (majority) Dems for the shutdown, the most common view is that if the shutdown occurs, Gov. LePage is to blame.
If the shutdown occurs, more than 12,000 state employees will be furloughed without pay, shutting down everything from the DMV to state-owned parks during the busiest tourist season of the year. In 1991, the state shut down for 16 days, and the impact was widespread, including delays in approving public assistance and the issuance of unemployment checks.
My apologies if you hit the Press Herald paywall after clicking multiple links, I tried to source from a number of local news outlets.
posted by anastasiav at 8:32 AM on June 27, 2017 [39 favorites]
The State of Maine is set to shut down for an undermined period starting Friday night, because legislators cannot agree on a budget that Paul Lepage will not veto.
The main sticking point is over education funding, along with policy changes that include a Republican led effort to revive a statewide teacher contract pilot program that was rejected by the legislature in May. In November, Maine voters narrowly approved a 3% tax surcharge on income over $200,000, all of which is earmarked for public education in the state. It is estimated that the surcharge would raise an additional $157M for public education, in a state where the bulk of local education budget currently comes from property taxes.
Republicans want to fully repeal the tax, and have instead pledged to increase the State contribution to education funding by $100M over two years. Dems will only agree to the repeal if the budget commits $200M over the same period.
In May, 54 Maine House members pledged to oppose any budget that does not fund 55% of the cost of public education in the state. However, as much as the R's try to blame the (majority) Dems for the shutdown, the most common view is that if the shutdown occurs, Gov. LePage is to blame.
If the shutdown occurs, more than 12,000 state employees will be furloughed without pay, shutting down everything from the DMV to state-owned parks during the busiest tourist season of the year. In 1991, the state shut down for 16 days, and the impact was widespread, including delays in approving public assistance and the issuance of unemployment checks.
My apologies if you hit the Press Herald paywall after clicking multiple links, I tried to source from a number of local news outlets.
posted by anastasiav at 8:32 AM on June 27, 2017 [39 favorites]
Amazon's page for Washington Post Prime access.
DC mefites might also be interested in this groupon for $29 for an entire year of WaPo - both Sunday papers and digital access. In general, it's cheaper if you get the Sunday paper, which...ack.
(apologies if this is getting too far off topic!)
posted by R a c h e l at 8:38 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
DC mefites might also be interested in this groupon for $29 for an entire year of WaPo - both Sunday papers and digital access. In general, it's cheaper if you get the Sunday paper, which...ack.
(apologies if this is getting too far off topic!)
posted by R a c h e l at 8:38 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
The inside story of how TMZ quietly became America’s most potent pro-Trump media outlet
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:40 AM on June 27, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:40 AM on June 27, 2017 [13 favorites]
Looks like AP is reporting that Mike Lee is the 5th Republican to publicly announce they will vote NO on the motion to proceed
posted by TwoWordReview at 8:42 AM on June 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by TwoWordReview at 8:42 AM on June 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
Behind the Scenes of Disney's Donald Trump 'Hall of Presidents' Drama
"Disney assumed that the transition from Obamabot to Trumpbot would be smooth and seamless. "We've already prepared a bust of President-elect Trump to go into our Hall of the Presidents at Disney World," said Disney CEO Bob Iger in a call with Wall Street analysts last November. But instead, according to a source close to Magic Kingdom management, the Trump communications team has been combative and obstinate, upsetting an established process that three prior presidential administrations found amenable."
posted by anastasiav at 8:43 AM on June 27, 2017 [31 favorites]
"Disney assumed that the transition from Obamabot to Trumpbot would be smooth and seamless. "We've already prepared a bust of President-elect Trump to go into our Hall of the Presidents at Disney World," said Disney CEO Bob Iger in a call with Wall Street analysts last November. But instead, according to a source close to Magic Kingdom management, the Trump communications team has been combative and obstinate, upsetting an established process that three prior presidential administrations found amenable."
posted by anastasiav at 8:43 AM on June 27, 2017 [31 favorites]
Metafilter: I'll boil some water
posted by thelonius at 8:48 AM on June 27, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 8:48 AM on June 27, 2017 [12 favorites]
the Trump communications team has been combative and obstinate
Gee, who'd a thunk it?
Although I now have this delightful SNL sketch fanfiction daydream playing in my head where Spicey blows a gasket to the tune of "It's a Small World."
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:49 AM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
Gee, who'd a thunk it?
Although I now have this delightful SNL sketch fanfiction daydream playing in my head where Spicey blows a gasket to the tune of "It's a Small World."
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:49 AM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
Gee, who'd a thunk it?
The whole thing is great and well worth a read. My actual favorite bit:
'"There are those at Imagineering who hope that if they hold off on doing anything with this attraction until the fall, Trump may have done something so egregious that the general public won't have an issue with putting a non-talking version of [Trump] in The Hall of Presidents," said the source."
posted by anastasiav at 8:51 AM on June 27, 2017 [17 favorites]
The whole thing is great and well worth a read. My actual favorite bit:
'"There are those at Imagineering who hope that if they hold off on doing anything with this attraction until the fall, Trump may have done something so egregious that the general public won't have an issue with putting a non-talking version of [Trump] in The Hall of Presidents," said the source."
posted by anastasiav at 8:51 AM on June 27, 2017 [17 favorites]
Looks like AP is reporting that Mike Lee is the 5th Republican to publicly announce they will vote NO on the motion to proceed
What? Uhhhhh... what? He's R+20 and his next election isn't until 2022?
Maybe he grew a conscience but there's gotta be something going on here. Maybe it is a fail fast and fail hard situation.
posted by Talez at 8:51 AM on June 27, 2017
What? Uhhhhh... what? He's R+20 and his next election isn't until 2022?
Maybe he grew a conscience but there's gotta be something going on here. Maybe it is a fail fast and fail hard situation.
posted by Talez at 8:51 AM on June 27, 2017
90% of Americans have employer provided healthcare and are not likely to receive proposed benefits. ... Right now the middle class is angry, and if the Dems wanted, they could clean up by offering to expand the safety net upwards.
Jesus Christ. (Ignoring the wildly wrong 90% number) The reason that Democrats are providing the ACA benefits to the individual market is because they already provided those same benefits to the middle class who have employer insurance two decades ago.
Bill Clinton signed the HIPPA law (Heath Insurance Portability and Accountability Act) back in 1996. Most people only think of HIPPA regarding health privacy rules. But Title 1 of the act provided all of the same benefits to middle class employee insurance that the ACA provides to non-employee insurance today.
1. Pre-existing conditions - Your employer can't refuse you health insurance based on pre-existing conditions (with certain rules). Same as the ACA today.
2. Community rating -- Your employer can't charge you more based on health status. Everyone gets the same insurance. Same as the ACA today.
3. Insurance mandate -- Your employer charges everyone for insurance, whether you want it or not. You won't get a refund from your employer if you decline insurance (with rare exceptions). Same as the ACA mandate.
4. Subsidies for buying insurance -- Your insurance premiums, both your employer's and your own contributions are absolutely tax free. This subsidy amounts to thousands of dollars of health insurance subsidies every year for every employee. Same as the ACA.
So Democrats gave the same benefits of the ACA to the middle class more than 20 years ago. This complaint that the ACA is ignoring the employed middle class is just wrong. They got theirs decades ago through HIPPA. Any resentment by the middle class at non-employees just now getting the same benefits that they have long enjoyed is just privileged class warfare.
It reminds me of Monty Python: "All right... all right... but apart from better sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order... what have the Romans ever done for us?
This idea that the middle class is being ignored by Democrats is pure ignorance.
posted by JackFlash at 8:53 AM on June 27, 2017 [93 favorites]
Jesus Christ. (Ignoring the wildly wrong 90% number) The reason that Democrats are providing the ACA benefits to the individual market is because they already provided those same benefits to the middle class who have employer insurance two decades ago.
Bill Clinton signed the HIPPA law (Heath Insurance Portability and Accountability Act) back in 1996. Most people only think of HIPPA regarding health privacy rules. But Title 1 of the act provided all of the same benefits to middle class employee insurance that the ACA provides to non-employee insurance today.
1. Pre-existing conditions - Your employer can't refuse you health insurance based on pre-existing conditions (with certain rules). Same as the ACA today.
2. Community rating -- Your employer can't charge you more based on health status. Everyone gets the same insurance. Same as the ACA today.
3. Insurance mandate -- Your employer charges everyone for insurance, whether you want it or not. You won't get a refund from your employer if you decline insurance (with rare exceptions). Same as the ACA mandate.
4. Subsidies for buying insurance -- Your insurance premiums, both your employer's and your own contributions are absolutely tax free. This subsidy amounts to thousands of dollars of health insurance subsidies every year for every employee. Same as the ACA.
So Democrats gave the same benefits of the ACA to the middle class more than 20 years ago. This complaint that the ACA is ignoring the employed middle class is just wrong. They got theirs decades ago through HIPPA. Any resentment by the middle class at non-employees just now getting the same benefits that they have long enjoyed is just privileged class warfare.
It reminds me of Monty Python: "All right... all right... but apart from better sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order... what have the Romans ever done for us?
This idea that the middle class is being ignored by Democrats is pure ignorance.
posted by JackFlash at 8:53 AM on June 27, 2017 [93 favorites]
Isn't Lee one of the "this bill isn't awful enough" people?
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:54 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:54 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Perhaps the Disney Trumpbot should just say "Covfefe" and be done with it.
The best words.
posted by Servo5678 at 8:56 AM on June 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
The best words.
posted by Servo5678 at 8:56 AM on June 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
Behind the Scenes of Disney's Donald Trump 'Hall of Presidents' Drama
"Four months and seven days ago, I won bigly, let me tell you. I won Florida. And Michigan. Crooked Hillary couldn't even rig the election. It was the Russians, did you know that? Obama did nothing, and Hillary, and Sean Hannity's ratings are way down. Way down, it's a disgrace. And Vladimir Putin, I don't even know him, he's a great guy, did you know that Mickey Mouse is a Jew? How can I be an anti-semite if Mickey Mouse is a Jew? We're gonna keep winning, huge electoral college wins, beautiful golf courses, you should visit some time, we make the best princess breakfasts. Make Adventure Land great again."
posted by uncleozzy at 8:57 AM on June 27, 2017 [10 favorites]
"Four months and seven days ago, I won bigly, let me tell you. I won Florida. And Michigan. Crooked Hillary couldn't even rig the election. It was the Russians, did you know that? Obama did nothing, and Hillary, and Sean Hannity's ratings are way down. Way down, it's a disgrace. And Vladimir Putin, I don't even know him, he's a great guy, did you know that Mickey Mouse is a Jew? How can I be an anti-semite if Mickey Mouse is a Jew? We're gonna keep winning, huge electoral college wins, beautiful golf courses, you should visit some time, we make the best princess breakfasts. Make Adventure Land great again."
posted by uncleozzy at 8:57 AM on June 27, 2017 [10 favorites]
The Disney Trumpbot should say "No puppet no puppet you're the puppet!"
posted by octobersurprise at 8:58 AM on June 27, 2017 [80 favorites]
posted by octobersurprise at 8:58 AM on June 27, 2017 [80 favorites]
I wonder if Putin would be open to having his likeness there instead?
posted by contraption at 9:00 AM on June 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by contraption at 9:00 AM on June 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
It's almost like...they don't...even care?
They don't care! Family planning, periods, pregnancy, birthing, and post-natal care are woman "problems", and the geniuses behind this bill are largely dudes. They want women to struggle and be endangered or incapacitated by these life-processes because then women can't challenge them for power.
Women in control of their sexuality and fertility are a huge threat to patriarchal power structures that bozos like McConnell and Ryan depend on. They wring their hands about how much they "respect" and "admire" women [in their families] but actively work against ensuring our safety, ability to work, take care of our health, and/or participate in raising families.
They don't give a single shit about women who work at home [with or without children] or those of us who work outside the home.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:01 AM on June 27, 2017 [87 favorites]
They don't care! Family planning, periods, pregnancy, birthing, and post-natal care are woman "problems", and the geniuses behind this bill are largely dudes. They want women to struggle and be endangered or incapacitated by these life-processes because then women can't challenge them for power.
Women in control of their sexuality and fertility are a huge threat to patriarchal power structures that bozos like McConnell and Ryan depend on. They wring their hands about how much they "respect" and "admire" women [in their families] but actively work against ensuring our safety, ability to work, take care of our health, and/or participate in raising families.
They don't give a single shit about women who work at home [with or without children] or those of us who work outside the home.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:01 AM on June 27, 2017 [87 favorites]
what really sucks is being stuck in a philip k. dick universe and not even having reliable access to psychedelics.
like if we've got to deal with a fake media celebrity president getting in pissing matches with disney over his animatronic representation, shouldn't we at least get some weird super-powerful space drugs as consolation?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:02 AM on June 27, 2017 [65 favorites]
like if we've got to deal with a fake media celebrity president getting in pissing matches with disney over his animatronic representation, shouldn't we at least get some weird super-powerful space drugs as consolation?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:02 AM on June 27, 2017 [65 favorites]
I think the obvious answer to what Disney's Trumpbot will say already lies prerecorded in the spoken word section of Godspeed You Black Emperor's Dead Flag Blues: "The car is on fire, and there's no driver at the wheel, and the sewers are all muddied with a thousand lonely suicides, and a dark wind blows. The government is corrupt, and we're on so many drugs with the radio on and the curtains drawn. We're trapped in the belly of this horrible machine and the machine is bleeding to death."
Then the instrumental section will just keep playing out of his gaping open mouth.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:02 AM on June 27, 2017 [29 favorites]
Then the instrumental section will just keep playing out of his gaping open mouth.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:02 AM on June 27, 2017 [29 favorites]
I don't think you're allowed to say "Grab 'em by the pussy" at Disney World.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:04 AM on June 27, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:04 AM on June 27, 2017 [21 favorites]
"It would most likely result in a call for conservatives to boycott Walt Disney World, which is the company's biggest fear."
looooooooooooool. You really think some rando Republican from Indiana is going to cancel their Disney trip over a Trump Tweet? In large enough numbers to make any kind of a difference? Haven't the outraged "boycotts" of Starbucks or whatever shown that this is a complete all bark no bite fear?
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:06 AM on June 27, 2017 [18 favorites]
looooooooooooool. You really think some rando Republican from Indiana is going to cancel their Disney trip over a Trump Tweet? In large enough numbers to make any kind of a difference? Haven't the outraged "boycotts" of Starbucks or whatever shown that this is a complete all bark no bite fear?
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:06 AM on June 27, 2017 [18 favorites]
The continued existence of Bootsy Collins demonstrates that powerful space drugs have been available for those who seek wisely and whose hearts are true.
posted by delfin at 9:07 AM on June 27, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by delfin at 9:07 AM on June 27, 2017 [23 favorites]
I'd like to think the other president robots would come alive at midnight and kill the Trumpbot.
I think they should just put the wax Trump bust in and say "under construction" but never do anything else.
Or have a Trumpbot that kids could program to say "I am stupid and have a big butt and also ugly" that would be a huge hit.
posted by emjaybee at 9:08 AM on June 27, 2017 [15 favorites]
I think they should just put the wax Trump bust in and say "under construction" but never do anything else.
Or have a Trumpbot that kids could program to say "I am stupid and have a big butt and also ugly" that would be a huge hit.
posted by emjaybee at 9:08 AM on June 27, 2017 [15 favorites]
but yeah the trump bot should be designed to malfunction; it should start delivering whatever nonsense trumpco wants him to say, but then his mouth should get stuck open and sparks should start shooting out of both his mouth and eyes. then his arms should start flailing randomly and he should start mindlessly goosestepping through the rest of the presidents, his trumpspeke having devolved into an empty roar. while he stumbles through the hall knocking over everything in his way, the reagan bot's eyes should start glowing an angry red; reagan should then stand and shout "MR. GORBACHEV TEAR DOWN THIS WALL," toss the FDR-bot out of his wheelchair, and then set to viciously punching and kicking him. Somewhere near the back of the hall, Andrew Jacksonbot should hump a chair while emitting an eerie mechanical moan.
Obama, Clinton, and Teddy Roosevelt should wade into the fray as a unit; the Obamabot should try to restrain the (now actually on fire) Trumpbot while Teddy and Clinton try to save FDR from Reagan. The scene ends with robots representing Patty Hearst and the Symbionese Liberation Army charging in, machine guns blazing, indiscriminately mowing down presidentbots left and right.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:10 AM on June 27, 2017 [26 favorites]
Obama, Clinton, and Teddy Roosevelt should wade into the fray as a unit; the Obamabot should try to restrain the (now actually on fire) Trumpbot while Teddy and Clinton try to save FDR from Reagan. The scene ends with robots representing Patty Hearst and the Symbionese Liberation Army charging in, machine guns blazing, indiscriminately mowing down presidentbots left and right.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:10 AM on June 27, 2017 [26 favorites]
Disney has never been good with cats.
posted by Artw at 9:10 AM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:10 AM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
what really sucks is being stuck in a philip k. dick universe and not even having reliable access to psychedelics.
Unfortunately, I think we may be more stuck in a Warren Ellis universe than a Dick one.
posted by Candleman at 9:12 AM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
Unfortunately, I think we may be more stuck in a Warren Ellis universe than a Dick one.
posted by Candleman at 9:12 AM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
ugh can't we at least have a Grant Morrison universe instead?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:12 AM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:12 AM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
Nah, then there'd be psychedelics and baby seal eye vending machines.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:13 AM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:13 AM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
Trumpbot should sing "Got No Strings On Me" and then randomly vocalize tweets. Each time Trumpbot vocalize a lie, it's nose should grow.
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:14 AM on June 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:14 AM on June 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
elementary chaos theory tells us that all robots will eventually turn against their masters and run amok in an orgy of blood and kicking and the biting with the metal teeth and the hurting and shoving
posted by entropicamericana at 9:14 AM on June 27, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 9:14 AM on June 27, 2017 [19 favorites]
ugh can't we at least have a Grant Morrison universe instead?
Republicans are pretty much the bad guys from The Invisibles at this point.
posted by Artw at 9:17 AM on June 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
Republicans are pretty much the bad guys from The Invisibles at this point.
posted by Artw at 9:17 AM on June 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
Clearly the solution to the Disney dilemma is to let Trump say whatever he wants, then stick the robot in with the Country Bear Jamboree. The 45th president's place in the Hall of Presidents can be filled by Liverlips McGrowl, who is certainly more suited than Trump to delivering a thoughtful patriotic speech.
posted by neroli at 9:19 AM on June 27, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by neroli at 9:19 AM on June 27, 2017 [17 favorites]
I take it back. Trumpbot should be programmed to say "Fish, and plankton, and sea greens, and protein from the sea!"
posted by octobersurprise at 9:21 AM on June 27, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by octobersurprise at 9:21 AM on June 27, 2017 [18 favorites]
TrumpBot 5000 should be sitting on a toilet, and only awaken when visitors set a nearby clock to four AM and place a souvenir cell phone in its hand.
posted by delfin at 9:23 AM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by delfin at 9:23 AM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Each time Trumpbot vocalize a lie, it's nose should grow.
Warning: Guests sitting in the first 4 rows may be subjected to immediate and rapid impalement via animatronic schnoz
posted by splen at 9:23 AM on June 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
Warning: Guests sitting in the first 4 rows may be subjected to immediate and rapid impalement via animatronic schnoz
posted by splen at 9:23 AM on June 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
I know it's a derail and the mods probably hate it but this Trumpbot fanfic is making an otherwise terrible day better. Or at least funnier.
I did call my actual-bags-of-sentient-slime Texas senators today, make sure you call yours, even if you are lucky enough not to be governed by slimelords.
posted by emjaybee at 9:25 AM on June 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
I did call my actual-bags-of-sentient-slime Texas senators today, make sure you call yours, even if you are lucky enough not to be governed by slimelords.
posted by emjaybee at 9:25 AM on June 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
Obamabot should try to restrain the (now actually on fire) Trumpbot
I'm on board as long as by "try to restrain" you mean he should stand off to one side saying "Now, just a minute here!" and spouting platitudes about coming together and going high as Trumpbot sets him on fire and literally shits all over the Constitution by means of a cunningly Imagineered screw-driven dogshit extruder.
posted by contraption at 9:29 AM on June 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm on board as long as by "try to restrain" you mean he should stand off to one side saying "Now, just a minute here!" and spouting platitudes about coming together and going high as Trumpbot sets him on fire and literally shits all over the Constitution by means of a cunningly Imagineered screw-driven dogshit extruder.
posted by contraption at 9:29 AM on June 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
Clearly the solution to the Disney dilemma is to let Trump say whatever he wants, then stick the robot in with the Country Bear Jamboree. The 45th president's place in the Hall of Presidents can be filled by Liverlips McGrowl, who is certainly more suited than Trump to delivering a thoughtful patriotic speech.
Duke Phillips was ahead of his time.
Bonus follow-up
posted by Servo5678 at 9:31 AM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
Duke Phillips was ahead of his time.
Bonus follow-up
posted by Servo5678 at 9:31 AM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
> I'm on board as long as by "try to restrain" you mean he should stand off to one side saying "Now, just a minute here!" and spouting platitudes about coming together and going high
I mean the hall of presidents is a fictionalized presentation of american history. if we're sticking to something closer to literal truth, Clinton would help Reagan beat on FDR instead of trying to save him.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:37 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
I mean the hall of presidents is a fictionalized presentation of american history. if we're sticking to something closer to literal truth, Clinton would help Reagan beat on FDR instead of trying to save him.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:37 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
what really sucks is being stuck in a philip k. dick universe and not even having reliable access to psychedelics.
like if we've got to deal with a fake media celebrity president getting in pissing matches with disney over his animatronic representation, shouldn't we at least get some weird super-powerful space drugs as consolation?
Does VR help?
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:39 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
like if we've got to deal with a fake media celebrity president getting in pissing matches with disney over his animatronic representation, shouldn't we at least get some weird super-powerful space drugs as consolation?
Does VR help?
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:39 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm still expecting to learn any moment that I've been dead since 2006.
posted by contraption at 9:42 AM on June 27, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by contraption at 9:42 AM on June 27, 2017 [17 favorites]
Or have a Trumpbot that kids could program to say "I am stupid and have a big butt and also ugly" that would be a huge hit.
OK the punchies must be setting in because I laughed myself silly over this one line. Thank you emjaybee.
In other news, I faxed my idiots senators this morning.
posted by yoga at 9:47 AM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
OK the punchies must be setting in because I laughed myself silly over this one line. Thank you emjaybee.
In other news, I faxed my idiots senators this morning.
posted by yoga at 9:47 AM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
A Trumpbot that just makes the body snatchers noise would be perfectly fine.
posted by Fleebnork at 9:49 AM on June 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Fleebnork at 9:49 AM on June 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
Does VR help?
Never helps. Occasionally all of the nausea, with none of the fun of psychedelics.
VR is the 8-track tape, nay . . .the laserdisc of the 21st century.
posted by rc3spencer at 9:50 AM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Never helps. Occasionally all of the nausea, with none of the fun of psychedelics.
VR is the 8-track tape, nay . . .the laserdisc of the 21st century.
posted by rc3spencer at 9:50 AM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Nancy Letourneau/Washington Monthly: Elections Are A Competition Between Two Stories of America
[Trump and the Republicans] describe an ugly place where we’re all divided into tribes that see each other as the enemy. It’s a zero sum story where, in order for me to win, you have to lose. It’s a story where facts don’t matter and reality is irrelevant. And as [speechwriter Jon] Favreau said, it’s a story dominated by identifying the villains, who are” Muslims and Mexicans and Black Lives Matter protesters; the media, business, and political elites from both parties.” The reason why I say that I’ve been buying into that lately is because I’ve been increasingly feeling like their story is becoming our story.posted by ZeusHumms at 9:53 AM on June 27, 2017 [43 favorites]
Then yesterday another Obama speechwriter, Cody Keenan, tweeted about the 10 most hopeful days he’d ever seen in politics. They happened only two years ago.
...
Finally, the president went to Charleston [to deliver eulogies for victims of a mass shooting], where he sang Amazing Grace. You’ve seen the video before. But did you notice what he said right before he started singing?"That reservoir of goodness, beyond, and of another kind, that we are able to do each other in the ordinary cause of things. That reservoir of goodness. If we can find that grace, anything is possible. If we can tap that grace, everything can change."That is the story Obama’s been telling us about ourselves since 2004 and over the eight years of his presidency. Did we lose all of that in the short span of two years since he sang Amazing Grace? I don’t think so. We simply started telling a different story.
"Now"?
The Republicans have basically been running on a platform of "elect us, we'll fuck you over but the liberals will hate it!" for my entire life.
Hell, whole careers worth multiple tens of millions of dollars have been made based on nothing but a person with a good ability at telling their audience how much they hate liberals and want to make them suffer.
There's nothing new about the sheer hateful malice of the Republicans under Trump. Maybe the volume is a bit louder, or they don't think they need to keep it quite so masked, but hate for anyone who isn't part of their tribe has been the foundation of Republicanism at least since Nixon.
posted by sotonohito at 10:04 AM on June 27, 2017 [40 favorites]
The Republicans have basically been running on a platform of "elect us, we'll fuck you over but the liberals will hate it!" for my entire life.
Hell, whole careers worth multiple tens of millions of dollars have been made based on nothing but a person with a good ability at telling their audience how much they hate liberals and want to make them suffer.
There's nothing new about the sheer hateful malice of the Republicans under Trump. Maybe the volume is a bit louder, or they don't think they need to keep it quite so masked, but hate for anyone who isn't part of their tribe has been the foundation of Republicanism at least since Nixon.
posted by sotonohito at 10:04 AM on June 27, 2017 [40 favorites]
That is the story Obama’s been telling us about ourselves since 2004 and over the eight years of his presidency. Did we lose all of that in the short span of two years since he sang Amazing Grace? I don’t think so. We simply started telling a different story.
Obama told that story so much he believed it in the face of overwhelming evidence it wasn't remotely true. There's no such thing as bipartisan compromise with reasonable Republicans. From the beginning they were never interested in singing kumbaya. Even with all his soaring rhetoric about our better selves, Obama never once got Republican buy in on anything. Not ACA. Not Dodd-Frank. Most especially not in response to Sandy Hook.
There's two stories alright, there's the story of Republicans trying to end the American way of life, and the story of Democratic politicians desperately pretending that's not the story Republicans have been selling, that somehow compromise is possible with irrational malevolence.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:12 AM on June 27, 2017 [36 favorites]
Obama told that story so much he believed it in the face of overwhelming evidence it wasn't remotely true. There's no such thing as bipartisan compromise with reasonable Republicans. From the beginning they were never interested in singing kumbaya. Even with all his soaring rhetoric about our better selves, Obama never once got Republican buy in on anything. Not ACA. Not Dodd-Frank. Most especially not in response to Sandy Hook.
There's two stories alright, there's the story of Republicans trying to end the American way of life, and the story of Democratic politicians desperately pretending that's not the story Republicans have been selling, that somehow compromise is possible with irrational malevolence.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:12 AM on June 27, 2017 [36 favorites]
Democrats look at Republicans as deranged Democrats. Republicans look at Democrats as deranged Republicans.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:16 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:16 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
There's nothing new about the sheer hateful malice of the Republicans under Trump.
Yeah, but as Lee Atwater liked to point out, the malice was tending to get more and more coded and subtle. Now, suddenly, there's nothing subtle at all about it anymore. Moreover, increasingly, malice for the sake of malice seems to be the whole point for many. There's definitely been a change, tho in practice it may be a distinction without much of a difference.
posted by octobersurprise at 10:18 AM on June 27, 2017 [15 favorites]
Yeah, but as Lee Atwater liked to point out, the malice was tending to get more and more coded and subtle. Now, suddenly, there's nothing subtle at all about it anymore. Moreover, increasingly, malice for the sake of malice seems to be the whole point for many. There's definitely been a change, tho in practice it may be a distinction without much of a difference.
posted by octobersurprise at 10:18 AM on June 27, 2017 [15 favorites]
I'm listening to the Primary Concerns podcast interview with (former D Kentucky governor) Steve Beshear and man, I don't even know. So much of the handwringing over how the Democratic party had "lost its way" and isn't "communicating our values" seems to end up in a place where we should declare a unilateral peace treaty with Republicans, with racists, with bigots, with power hungry billionaires and whether or not that is the "right thing to do" it's not going to work. Those people don't want peace, they want destruction. They want Thunder Dome. If we declare peace with them, they will gleefully continue to do exactly what they are doing right now. That does not sound like a winning strategy to me.
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:20 AM on June 27, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:20 AM on June 27, 2017 [19 favorites]
ugh no it's not a competition between two stories. it's a competition over the allocation of resources. the left wants to spread out resources so that common people have the material means for autonomy. the right wants to concentrate resources so that common people are dependent upon rulers — capital-owners, patriarchs, preachers, grand wizards. almost everything else is ideological mystification.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:20 AM on June 27, 2017 [40 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:20 AM on June 27, 2017 [40 favorites]
The right sees common people _as_ resources.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:21 AM on June 27, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:21 AM on June 27, 2017 [22 favorites]
I think the surprise at Republican malice has largely been experirenced by white people, though. I've seen lots of people of color say that this is what they've always experienced and known and it's only new if you had the privilege of being shielded from it before. And that makes sense to me.
posted by emjaybee at 10:22 AM on June 27, 2017 [58 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 10:22 AM on June 27, 2017 [58 favorites]
it is now more important to see the other side rendered angry or sad than to win an actual policy victory.
I'm pretty sure you're talking about Trumpists. The Democratic party would still, I believe, like to see education, health care, a higher minimum wage, things that actually help people. I don't see any equivalent to the kind of "Liberal tears, har har har" that the Republicans engage in.
posted by jokeefe at 10:24 AM on June 27, 2017 [13 favorites]
I'm pretty sure you're talking about Trumpists. The Democratic party would still, I believe, like to see education, health care, a higher minimum wage, things that actually help people. I don't see any equivalent to the kind of "Liberal tears, har har har" that the Republicans engage in.
posted by jokeefe at 10:24 AM on June 27, 2017 [13 favorites]
Donald Trump and Ireland's new Taoiseach (Prime Minister) Leo Varadkar had a phone call today and it was all sorts of embarrasing. Not starting-a-feud-with-Australia embarrassing, but pretty bad nonetheless. First Trump was on hold for 90 seconds waiting for Leo to come on the line, which staff should ensure doesn't happen (lest the leader of the free world makes a stupid face while he's on hold). Then he congratulated Mr. Varadkar on his "great victory" (he won a not particularly hotly contested parliamentary party vote after former Taoiseach Enda Kenny announced his retirement). Trump then said that we have many many Irish people in this country and he felt like he knew all of them, before asking RTE News correspondent (RTE is the Irish State broadcaster) Caitriona Perry to come over and say hello while telling Leo how beautiful she was. He then lied and said that Leo Varadkar thanked her for the newspapers when Mr. Varadkar would know full well that she does not represent a newspaper.
Apparently they went on to have a productive call without Trump being invited to Ireland and they'll see each other on Paddy's day next year. *Picard-facepalm.gif*
posted by TwoWordReview at 10:25 AM on June 27, 2017 [16 favorites]
Apparently they went on to have a productive call without Trump being invited to Ireland and they'll see each other on Paddy's day next year. *Picard-facepalm.gif*
posted by TwoWordReview at 10:25 AM on June 27, 2017 [16 favorites]
Lemieux's latest post chronicles and rebuts a new emerging meme from McArdle, Roy, and Douthat, who seem to have retreated from "this bill won't cause people to lose their insurance" to "like, what good is insurance, maaaaaan?"
One approach, which McArdle has used in the past, is to claim that that the BCRA’s massive reductions in spending and hence in the number of people with insurance are no big deal because insurance doesn’t really have any value. Friend of the blog Avik Roy:posted by tonycpsu at 10:27 AM on June 27, 2017 [32 favorites]The Senate bill includes and refines the best part of the House bill: its reforms of Medicaid, the dysfunctional government-run health care program for the poor whose enrollees have no better health outcomes than the uninsured.Ross Douthat — who at least opposes BCRA — makes the claim vaguer and applicable to all insurance:
The best conservative health policy analysis proceeds from the controversial but, I think, correct perspective that much health spending is wasted and that people do not value or benefit from insurance as much as liberal technocrats presume.The stronger, more specific version of the claim leans heavily on cherry-picking one study about Medicaid in Oregon, which 1)by its nature could not have demonstrated that Medicaid was no better than being uninsured and 2)did no such thing in any case.
Anyway, there is more than one study out there. Does the evidence support the incredibly implausible idea that being insured does little or nothing to improve health outcomes? Of course not. The evidence is overwhelming that people on Medicaid benefit substantially from having insurance. The best evidence indicates that upwards of 30,000 people a year will die preventible deaths if BCRA becomes law. So, while it might sound like Swiftian hyperbole, “Senate Republicans will make poor people suffer and in some cases die to pay for an upper-class tax cut” is, in fact, entirely accurate.
What’s particularly infuriating is that this ridiculous speculation is being engaged in by people who will never themselves be without good insurance. None of these people are going forego anything but ER care the rest of their lives. Conveniently, if Republicans succeed in passing this unspeakably appalling bill, “being uninsured — is it really bad for your health?” is an experiment that will be carried out on other, less privileged people.
The one admirable policy to come out of the George W. Bush administration was the statement that the United States does not negotiate with terrorists. Democrats in office should take that sentiment to heart. And if you want to argue that Republicans aren't terrorists and my rhetoric is too strong, well, if a foreign power threatened to shut down all the functions of the federal government unless we did exactly what they said, what would you call them?
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:28 AM on June 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:28 AM on June 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
One thing I don't get, if conservatives really want to make self-insurance vaguely affordable why don't they make any hospital that takes Medicare patients bill out self-insured patients at Medicare rates?
posted by Talez at 10:31 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Talez at 10:31 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
The continued existence of Bootsy Collins demonstrates that powerful space drugs have been available for those who seek wisely and whose hearts are true.
Aaaahhhhyyeah baby! If I'dve known I was comin', I'dve baked a cake!*
whoohm-pawmp-pawpawee-bum-pawhaa-Bohmp-whawp-papawee-bom-bomp
*I believe Sir Bootsy is clean, but the point still stands
posted by petebest at 10:32 AM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Aaaahhhhyyeah baby! If I'dve known I was comin', I'dve baked a cake!*
whoohm-pawmp-pawpawee-bum-pawhaa-Bohmp-whawp-papawee-bom-bomp
*I believe Sir Bootsy is clean, but the point still stands
posted by petebest at 10:32 AM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Faint of Butt: "The one admirable policy to come out of the George W. Bush administration was the statement that the United States does not negotiate with terrorists."
This was neither a policy of the W admin nor was the idea generated by them.
posted by TypographicalError at 10:33 AM on June 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
This was neither a policy of the W admin nor was the idea generated by them.
posted by TypographicalError at 10:33 AM on June 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
Lack of credit where lack of credit is due, then. It's a good idea regardless.
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:34 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:34 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Reagan said that and still negotiated with terrorists.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:36 AM on June 27, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 10:36 AM on June 27, 2017 [12 favorites]
I'm on Medicaid in Cal and have the same HMO that I've had all my life, only this year I don't pay premiums of co-pays. AFAIK this is the path to some pretty decent health outcomes.
The next fucking pundit who talks about how health insurance ain't good for nothing should prove it by dropping his own insurance. And his kids' insurance. (And maybe try a little waterboarding to prove that's not that bad. Fucking pundits.)
Also, lets get an anti-Trump meme going suggestion that Healthcare shouldn't be run like a *casino*.
posted by puddledork at 10:37 AM on June 27, 2017 [24 favorites]
The next fucking pundit who talks about how health insurance ain't good for nothing should prove it by dropping his own insurance. And his kids' insurance. (And maybe try a little waterboarding to prove that's not that bad. Fucking pundits.)
Also, lets get an anti-Trump meme going suggestion that Healthcare shouldn't be run like a *casino*.
posted by puddledork at 10:37 AM on June 27, 2017 [24 favorites]
The one admirable policy to come out of the George W. Bush administration was the statement that the United States does not negotiate with terrorists.
Well shit, someone forgot to tell Bill Clinton that.
posted by Talez at 10:37 AM on June 27, 2017
Well shit, someone forgot to tell Bill Clinton that.
posted by Talez at 10:37 AM on June 27, 2017
Oooh, Beshear now spilling a little tea about McConnell (they went to law school together and came up in KY politics together) on this podcast. This interview and Senator Manchin on Pod Save America yesterday are both good, if occasionally infuriating, listens.
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:42 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:42 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
ugh no it's not a competition between two stories. it's a competition over the allocation of resources. the left wants to spread out resources so that common people have the material means for autonomy. the right wants to concentrate resources so that common people are dependent upon rulers — capitalists, patriarchs, preachers, grand wizards. almost everything else is ideological mystification.
Bluntly, this. One side views prosperity as a renewable resource and has an interest in the common good; the other views it as zero-sum and wants individuals and corporations to have no regulations preventing them from seizing all of it.
There are those who have not but think that since they're on the haves team, their share of the winnings will be forthcoming; they are useful idiots completely by design. Others are downtrodden but are happy as long as there are others upon whom they can look down.
posted by delfin at 10:44 AM on June 27, 2017 [17 favorites]
Bluntly, this. One side views prosperity as a renewable resource and has an interest in the common good; the other views it as zero-sum and wants individuals and corporations to have no regulations preventing them from seizing all of it.
There are those who have not but think that since they're on the haves team, their share of the winnings will be forthcoming; they are useful idiots completely by design. Others are downtrodden but are happy as long as there are others upon whom they can look down.
posted by delfin at 10:44 AM on June 27, 2017 [17 favorites]
Obama told that story so much he believed it in the face of overwhelming evidence it wasn't remotely true. There's no such thing as bipartisan compromise with reasonable Republicans. From the beginning they were never interested in singing kumbaya. Even with all his soaring rhetoric about our better selves, Obama never once got Republican buy in on anything. Not ACA. Not Dodd-Frank. Most especially not in response to Sandy Hook.
There's two stories alright, there's the story of Republicans trying to end the American way of life, and the story of Democratic politicians desperately pretending that's not the story Republicans have been selling, that somehow compromise is possible with irrational malevolence.
Anger is a powerful motivator for turnout (Hate's arguably even better, but it also poisons the well). The most popular Democrats in the country (Bernie, Warren) right now are f#cking furious. The time for calm and measured has passed. Right now it just looks weak.
If a democrat went all in on righteous indignation and campaigned on "These immoral cowards are lying and trying to kill your children!" they'd do fantastic. "My opponent isn't just in favor of bad policy, their cowardice in defending the indefensible shows they're actually a despicable human being." I mean, all in, just light them on fire. Normally, I'd take the Bidenesque, "you can't know their hearts" approach. BUT. Fortunately, there are some actual mustache twisting traitorous corrupt murderers to run against.
posted by leotrotsky at 10:46 AM on June 27, 2017 [43 favorites]
There's two stories alright, there's the story of Republicans trying to end the American way of life, and the story of Democratic politicians desperately pretending that's not the story Republicans have been selling, that somehow compromise is possible with irrational malevolence.
Anger is a powerful motivator for turnout (Hate's arguably even better, but it also poisons the well). The most popular Democrats in the country (Bernie, Warren) right now are f#cking furious. The time for calm and measured has passed. Right now it just looks weak.
If a democrat went all in on righteous indignation and campaigned on "These immoral cowards are lying and trying to kill your children!" they'd do fantastic. "My opponent isn't just in favor of bad policy, their cowardice in defending the indefensible shows they're actually a despicable human being." I mean, all in, just light them on fire. Normally, I'd take the Bidenesque, "you can't know their hearts" approach. BUT. Fortunately, there are some actual mustache twisting traitorous corrupt murderers to run against.
posted by leotrotsky at 10:46 AM on June 27, 2017 [43 favorites]
Also, lets get an anti-Trump meme going suggestion that Healthcare shouldn't be run like a *casino*.
Lets make it a Trump casino, which tends to be run into the ground.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:46 AM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Lets make it a Trump casino, which tends to be run into the ground.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:46 AM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Manu Raju: MCCONNELL tells senators: He will delay the health care vote until after the recess to solicit more support from GOP senators
posted by zombieflanders at 10:50 AM on June 27, 2017 [43 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 10:50 AM on June 27, 2017 [43 favorites]
If a democrat went all in on righteous indignation and campaigned on "These immoral cowards are lying and trying to kill your children!" they'd do fantastic.
Spanish Football Announcer: GGGGGGGGGGGGGGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*VUVUZELAS BLOW THROUGHOUT STADIUM*
posted by leotrotsky at 10:51 AM on June 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
Spanish Football Announcer: GGGGGGGGGGGGGGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*VUVUZELAS BLOW THROUGHOUT STADIUM*
posted by leotrotsky at 10:51 AM on June 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
Centrism is the worst self-defeating fetish of the Democratic party.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 10:53 AM on June 27, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Kitty Stardust at 10:53 AM on June 27, 2017 [10 favorites]
Literally two hours ago:
@JohnCornyn (in response to a story saying he was leaving the door open to delaying the vote): "I am closing the door. We need to do it this week before double digit premium increases are announced for next year."
I...I guess there was a back door?
posted by zachlipton at 10:53 AM on June 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
@JohnCornyn (in response to a story saying he was leaving the door open to delaying the vote): "I am closing the door. We need to do it this week before double digit premium increases are announced for next year."
I...I guess there was a back door?
posted by zachlipton at 10:53 AM on June 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
Manu Raju: MCCONNELL tells senators: He will delay the health care vote until after the recess to solicit more support from GOP senators
Well there goes the fail fast, fail hard theory.
posted by Talez at 10:53 AM on June 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
Well there goes the fail fast, fail hard theory.
posted by Talez at 10:53 AM on June 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
> Manu Raju: MCCONNELL tells senators: He will delay the health care vote until after the recess to solicit more support from GOP senators
And suddenly, the United States Federal Witness Protection Program gets 51 new expedited applications.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:57 AM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
And suddenly, the United States Federal Witness Protection Program gets 51 new expedited applications.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:57 AM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
If a democrat went all in on righteous indignation and campaigned on "These immoral cowards are lying and trying to kill your children!" they'd do fantastic. "My opponent isn't just in favor of bad policy, their cowardice in defending the indefensible shows they're actually a despicable human being." I mean, all in, just light them on fire. Normally, I'd take the Bidenesque, "you can't know their hearts" approach. BUT. Fortunately, there are some actual mustache twisting traitorous corrupt murderers to run against.
They should go after Trump HARD. He'd take the bait, raise their national profile, and now suddenly they're George against the Asshole Dragon.
posted by leotrotsky at 10:58 AM on June 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
They should go after Trump HARD. He'd take the bait, raise their national profile, and now suddenly they're George against the Asshole Dragon.
posted by leotrotsky at 10:58 AM on June 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
I...I guess there was a back door?
Ah, I do love seeing John Cornyn look a fool.
posted by marshmallow peep at 11:00 AM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Ah, I do love seeing John Cornyn look a fool.
posted by marshmallow peep at 11:00 AM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
McConnell told GOP senators that he wants to make changes to the bill, get a new Congressional Budget Office score and have a vote after the holiday.
So, continuing to pretend that there isn't a fundamental opposition to a government role in providing access to health care at the foundation of Republican ideology, I see. Welp. Go big or go home, I guess.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:01 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
So, continuing to pretend that there isn't a fundamental opposition to a government role in providing access to health care at the foundation of Republican ideology, I see. Welp. Go big or go home, I guess.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:01 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trump may have done something so egregious that the general public won't have an issue with putting a non-talking version of [Trump] in The Hall of Presidents
I think the obvious course is to have his animatronic hunched over, silent and furiously texting.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 11:03 AM on June 27, 2017 [15 favorites]
I think the obvious course is to have his animatronic hunched over, silent and furiously texting.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 11:03 AM on June 27, 2017 [15 favorites]
. . .The most popular Democrats in the country (Bernie, Warren) right now are f#cking furious. The time for calm and measured has passed. Right now it just looks weak.
If a democrat went all in on righteous indignation and campaigned on "These immoral cowards are lying and trying to kill your children!" they'd do fantastic. "My opponent isn't just in favor of bad policy, their cowardice in defending the indefensible shows they're actually a despicable human being." I mean, all in, just light them on fire. . .
Signed. If whatever version of AHCA gets passed, every up and coming D candidate should use "Close Your Eyes (And Count to Fuck)" as a campaign song.
posted by The Gaffer at 11:03 AM on June 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
If a democrat went all in on righteous indignation and campaigned on "These immoral cowards are lying and trying to kill your children!" they'd do fantastic. "My opponent isn't just in favor of bad policy, their cowardice in defending the indefensible shows they're actually a despicable human being." I mean, all in, just light them on fire. . .
Signed. If whatever version of AHCA gets passed, every up and coming D candidate should use "Close Your Eyes (And Count to Fuck)" as a campaign song.
posted by The Gaffer at 11:03 AM on June 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
Friendly reminder that the House delayed the vote too, after everyone thought it was dead, and it came back to life. If you have Republican Senators (or Democrats too, why not?), please continue to call them daily. If you're able to get involved with activist groups during the recess, even better.
posted by zachlipton at 11:05 AM on June 27, 2017 [61 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:05 AM on June 27, 2017 [61 favorites]
> They should go after Trump HARD. He'd take the bait, raise their national profile, and now suddenly they're George against the Asshole Dragon.
performing dislike of trump allows people to see someone voicing their concerns, but does nothing to change their material situation. To win, we must change material situations. The right's strategy involves saying things that their base would like to say in public, so that they can see themselves represented there. It is a strategy of (as Walter Benjamin put it) aestheticizing politics. This strategy is not available to the left, because aestheticizing politics is a fundamentally fascist approach.
Our strategy must instead be to win material benefits rather than to perform symbolic representation. Run on single payer healthcare, on raised minimum wages, on free good schooling from kindergarten to phd level, on long-term parental leave for both parents (a year for each is a good start), on free childcare, and, generally, on transfers of wealth from the owning classes to everyone.
Getting into a pissing match with a moronic fascist wins us nothing. Every second voters and potential voters are thinking about trump is a second lost to the Democrats.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:06 AM on June 27, 2017 [16 favorites]
performing dislike of trump allows people to see someone voicing their concerns, but does nothing to change their material situation. To win, we must change material situations. The right's strategy involves saying things that their base would like to say in public, so that they can see themselves represented there. It is a strategy of (as Walter Benjamin put it) aestheticizing politics. This strategy is not available to the left, because aestheticizing politics is a fundamentally fascist approach.
Our strategy must instead be to win material benefits rather than to perform symbolic representation. Run on single payer healthcare, on raised minimum wages, on free good schooling from kindergarten to phd level, on long-term parental leave for both parents (a year for each is a good start), on free childcare, and, generally, on transfers of wealth from the owning classes to everyone.
Getting into a pissing match with a moronic fascist wins us nothing. Every second voters and potential voters are thinking about trump is a second lost to the Democrats.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:06 AM on June 27, 2017 [16 favorites]
delay the vote
Which one of you magnificent bastards has a birthday today?
posted by schadenfrau at 11:09 AM on June 27, 2017 [18 favorites]
Which one of you magnificent bastards has a birthday today?
posted by schadenfrau at 11:09 AM on June 27, 2017 [18 favorites]
It's a perfect way to celebrate Independence Day: applying political pressure to your elected representatives to promote the general welfare.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 11:10 AM on June 27, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by Barack Spinoza at 11:10 AM on June 27, 2017 [25 favorites]
well, that and will smith punching an extraterrestrial in the face
posted by Barack Spinoza at 11:12 AM on June 27, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Barack Spinoza at 11:12 AM on June 27, 2017 [13 favorites]
Emily Gee, Center for American Progress: Coverage Losses by State for the Senate Health Care Repeal Bill
Some key numbers--percentages are proportion of total population that would lose coverage based on this report and 2016 population estimates in the Wikipedia article for US State populations:
As always, stay strong, take care of yourselves, and keep calling, writing, and faxing even with the supposed delay of the vote. We can win this battle, but we must persist.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 11:13 AM on June 27, 2017 [60 favorites]
Some key numbers--percentages are proportion of total population that would lose coverage based on this report and 2016 population estimates in the Wikipedia article for US State populations:
64,500 (8.7%) people lose coverage in Alaska, home of Lisa MurkowskiThese numbers are sick sick sick and should be repeated loudly and often to anyone who will listen. I don't have time to do a state-by-state breakdown right now, but Senators from these states are among the most vulnerable or are undecided on if they will vote on a motion to proceed.
2,086,500 (10.1%) people lose coverage in Florida, home of the wavering Marco Rubio
117,900 (8.9%)people lose coverage in Maine, home of Susan Collins
122,500 (4.2%)people lose coverage in Nevada, home of Dean Heller
1,348,300 (13.3%) people lose coverage in North Carolina, home of Richard Burr and Thom Tillis
731,000 (5.7%) people lose coverage in Pennsylvania, home of Pat Toomey
118,100 (6.4%) people lose coverage in West Virginia, home of Shelly Moore Capito
394,100 (6.8%) people loose coverage in Wisconsin, home of Ron Johnson
As always, stay strong, take care of yourselves, and keep calling, writing, and faxing even with the supposed delay of the vote. We can win this battle, but we must persist.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 11:13 AM on June 27, 2017 [60 favorites]
WaPo/Fahrenthold: A Time Magazine with Trump on the cover hangs in his golf clubs. It’s fake.
There's a literal example of fake news hanging in at least four of Trump's golf clubs! He was never on the cover of Time Magazine in 2009, but someone photoshopped one up anyway.
posted by zachlipton at 11:17 AM on June 27, 2017 [55 favorites]
There's a literal example of fake news hanging in at least four of Trump's golf clubs! He was never on the cover of Time Magazine in 2009, but someone photoshopped one up anyway.
posted by zachlipton at 11:17 AM on June 27, 2017 [55 favorites]
This strategy is not available to the left, because aestheticizing politics is a fundamentally fascist approach.
Our strategy must instead be to win material benefits rather than to perform symbolic representation.
With respect, screw that. If your opponent is Hitler you don't run on improving quality of life in Germany, you run against Hitler. This is as close to a pure battle against good and evil that you're ever going to see in national politics. Make it personal.
You know how I know that works? Because it's worked successfully against Hillary* for the past 25 fucking years. Run against the villain. Tie your opponent to the villain. Let your voter defeat the villain.
*and she was a committed dedicated public servant! Trump's a traitorous fuck stick. You staple that piece of shit to every Republican candidate ever and make them walk around with the smell wafting about.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:18 AM on June 27, 2017 [31 favorites]
Our strategy must instead be to win material benefits rather than to perform symbolic representation.
With respect, screw that. If your opponent is Hitler you don't run on improving quality of life in Germany, you run against Hitler. This is as close to a pure battle against good and evil that you're ever going to see in national politics. Make it personal.
You know how I know that works? Because it's worked successfully against Hillary* for the past 25 fucking years. Run against the villain. Tie your opponent to the villain. Let your voter defeat the villain.
*and she was a committed dedicated public servant! Trump's a traitorous fuck stick. You staple that piece of shit to every Republican candidate ever and make them walk around with the smell wafting about.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:18 AM on June 27, 2017 [31 favorites]
I love (and by love I mean hate) how all the talk about how bad the bill would be for Alaska is focused solely on Lisa Murkowski even though the state has two GOP senators, because the other is Dan Sullivan, a man who would kick himself in the balls if he thought it would make liberals sad.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:19 AM on June 27, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:19 AM on June 27, 2017 [16 favorites]
The problem is that anti-Trump has already failed as an electoral strategy. We need to not just say BCRA is a killer, we need to pledge to enact single-payer as soon as possible.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 11:22 AM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Kitty Stardust at 11:22 AM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
The problem is that anti-Trump has already failed as an electoral strategy.
No, that's the wrong lesson. Hillary lost because 25 years of Hillary demonization (which worked!) Just ask the voters and they'll tell you. They'd have voted for the Antichrist over Hillary.
Ossoff lost because 1. that's a tough district to win for a Democrat and 2. he was milquetoast as all hell.
We need firebrands ready to go to war to save us from the Fascists. That's what fires up the base. That's what wins the war.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:25 AM on June 27, 2017 [19 favorites]
No, that's the wrong lesson. Hillary lost because 25 years of Hillary demonization (which worked!) Just ask the voters and they'll tell you. They'd have voted for the Antichrist over Hillary.
Ossoff lost because 1. that's a tough district to win for a Democrat and 2. he was milquetoast as all hell.
We need firebrands ready to go to war to save us from the Fascists. That's what fires up the base. That's what wins the war.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:25 AM on June 27, 2017 [19 favorites]
because the other is Dan Sullivan, a man who would kick himself in the balls if he thought it would make liberals sad.
So, um, how do we convince him this is the case?
posted by biogeo at 11:26 AM on June 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
So, um, how do we convince him this is the case?
posted by biogeo at 11:26 AM on June 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
Oh, man, the secondary headlines on that fake Time cover are just the best:
+ Obama's Next Move: Can He Curb Health-Care Costs?
+ How Stressed is Your Bank? A Checkup
+ Global Warming: A New Age of Extinction
The real one for that week has Kate Winslet on the cover, and the first two secondary headlines are the same. The global warming one doesn't appear, but is replaced with: "Boomerangers: Bunking In with Mom and Dad".
posted by Caxton1476 at 11:26 AM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
+ Obama's Next Move: Can He Curb Health-Care Costs?
+ How Stressed is Your Bank? A Checkup
+ Global Warming: A New Age of Extinction
The real one for that week has Kate Winslet on the cover, and the first two secondary headlines are the same. The global warming one doesn't appear, but is replaced with: "Boomerangers: Bunking In with Mom and Dad".
posted by Caxton1476 at 11:26 AM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
With respect, screw that. If your opponent is Hitler you don't run on improving quality of life in Germany, you run against Hitler.
With respect, running against Hitler didn't work in the Weimar republic. At all. One of the big reasons Hitler could run over the German democracy of the time was that the left was caught up in internal squabbles and the moderate right thought it could control the Nazis. Sounds familiar?
posted by mumimor at 11:27 AM on June 27, 2017 [32 favorites]
With respect, running against Hitler didn't work in the Weimar republic. At all. One of the big reasons Hitler could run over the German democracy of the time was that the left was caught up in internal squabbles and the moderate right thought it could control the Nazis. Sounds familiar?
posted by mumimor at 11:27 AM on June 27, 2017 [32 favorites]
The best part of the fake Time article is the response of the Trump club staff in Scotland:
Club officials did not respond to queries about why it was taken down. The employee said it was part of a general reduction in photos of Trump.posted by zachlipton at 11:29 AM on June 27, 2017 [12 favorites]
“We certainly have been hearing more grumbling about all the stuff like that up on the walls since his election,” the employee said. “From Americans, mostly, funny enough. That’s why we all assumed they started taking some of his photos off the walls.”
“But it was just a guess. I don’t actually have a Scooby,” the employee added, using an expression that means, “I don’t have a clue.”
Clinton ran on "not Trump". The Democrats as a whole ran an entire slate of Senate candidates with no discernible message other than "we're not Trump either". We literally just tried that.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:29 AM on June 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:29 AM on June 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
The science of biomechanics says it is impossible for a human male to kick himself in the balls. Science also says humans are causing climate change. Dan, if you can kick yourself in the balls, you will prove science wrong and all those liberal ivory-tower elites will be shown as frauds and cast into the gutter. You can do it, Dan!
posted by biogeo at 11:29 AM on June 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by biogeo at 11:29 AM on June 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
Hillary lost because 25 years of Hillary demonization (which worked!)
Well . . that and the electoral college favoring rural states and a dozen other counties, post-gerrymandered districting.
posted by rc3spencer at 11:30 AM on June 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
Well . . that and the electoral college favoring rural states and a dozen other counties, post-gerrymandered districting.
posted by rc3spencer at 11:30 AM on June 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
Fox website doesn't have anything on the delay just yet, but there's a huge story about Obama going on vacation.
posted by mcdoublewide at 11:31 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by mcdoublewide at 11:31 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
The science of biomechanics says it is impossible for a human male to kick himself in the balls.
sure you can, it's just the point of impact will be the heel rather than the toes (mods please allow this derail)
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:33 AM on June 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
sure you can, it's just the point of impact will be the heel rather than the toes (mods please allow this derail)
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:33 AM on June 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
The science of biomechanics says it is impossible for a human male to kick himself in the balls.
Raise your hand if you, against all reason and common sense, just tried.
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:33 AM on June 27, 2017 [30 favorites]
Raise your hand if you, against all reason and common sense, just tried.
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:33 AM on June 27, 2017 [30 favorites]
And systematic disenfranchisement and suppression of minority votes. And because James Comey irresponsibly dropped a political bombshell just before the election implying that the FBI had some new knowledge of criminal wrongdoing by Clinton when in fact they had no such thing. And, and, and. There's a million reasons why she lost. There's three million why she should have won.
posted by biogeo at 11:33 AM on June 27, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by biogeo at 11:33 AM on June 27, 2017 [26 favorites]
Sarah Huckabee Sanders steps in to introduce Rick Perry (it's "Energy Week"!) and take questions at the briefing, surprising even the White House staffer who set up the youtube link.
posted by pjenks at 11:34 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by pjenks at 11:34 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
We need firebrands ready to go to war to save us from the Fascists.
I'd like to put my stake in the ground now to say that I believe that the social media push coming from Senators Chris Murphy and Corey Booker is exactly the right tone - educated, funny, angry, outraged - but that I also think they have their eyes on being the Dem candidates for the White House in 2020. More likely Murphy/Booker than Booker/Murphy, but they are where I am setting my chips down now.
posted by anastasiav at 11:34 AM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'd like to put my stake in the ground now to say that I believe that the social media push coming from Senators Chris Murphy and Corey Booker is exactly the right tone - educated, funny, angry, outraged - but that I also think they have their eyes on being the Dem candidates for the White House in 2020. More likely Murphy/Booker than Booker/Murphy, but they are where I am setting my chips down now.
posted by anastasiav at 11:34 AM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
Mod note: Folks, let's leave the one millionth 2016 election postmortem, I would literally rather have the ball kicking derail.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 11:34 AM on June 27, 2017 [106 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 11:34 AM on June 27, 2017 [106 favorites]
The Democrats as a whole ran an entire slate of Senate candidates with no discernible message other than "we're not Trump either". We literally just tried that.
I'm sorry, but that was not the election I personally witnessed (and I witnessed a lot of it, living in an important swing state). When Katie McGinty came and rallied at my workplace with Elizabeth Warren, they had a powerful message about equity, equality, fairness and a social safety net. And yes, how much Pat Toomey and Trump are against all of those things, because you do have to kind of mention how you're different from the other guys. But this idea that the Democratic party has no ideas or doesn't run on ideas is just totally contrary to my personal observations.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:34 AM on June 27, 2017 [27 favorites]
I'm sorry, but that was not the election I personally witnessed (and I witnessed a lot of it, living in an important swing state). When Katie McGinty came and rallied at my workplace with Elizabeth Warren, they had a powerful message about equity, equality, fairness and a social safety net. And yes, how much Pat Toomey and Trump are against all of those things, because you do have to kind of mention how you're different from the other guys. But this idea that the Democratic party has no ideas or doesn't run on ideas is just totally contrary to my personal observations.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:34 AM on June 27, 2017 [27 favorites]
sure you can, it's just the point of impact will be the heel rather than the toes (mods please allow this derail)
Exactly. Lie on your back, spread your legs, bring your heel to your balls and it will become entirely obvious that it's possible to kick yourself in the balls.
posted by Talez at 11:37 AM on June 27, 2017
Exactly. Lie on your back, spread your legs, bring your heel to your balls and it will become entirely obvious that it's possible to kick yourself in the balls.
posted by Talez at 11:37 AM on June 27, 2017
It's Energy Week (did you know? kind of hard to tell), and the term the White House has decided to use is "Energy Dominance." Apparently, independence isn't enough; we have to dominate with it.
We'll now hear platitudes about energy and avoid all questions about the health care bill, Syria, Trump's tweets, why he has himself photoshopped onto the cover of Time magazine like it's a poster for all the guests to sign at his Bar Mitzvah, etc...
posted by zachlipton at 11:37 AM on June 27, 2017
We'll now hear platitudes about energy and avoid all questions about the health care bill, Syria, Trump's tweets, why he has himself photoshopped onto the cover of Time magazine like it's a poster for all the guests to sign at his Bar Mitzvah, etc...
posted by zachlipton at 11:37 AM on June 27, 2017
If a dude had a prosthetic leg, he could take it off and kick himself in the balls.
Anyway, I am relieved the vote is delayed, but have no illusions about the next go round of Massive Tax Cuts for a Few, Death for Everyone Else bills they'll try.
And I second the call to just say people are evil for supporting this. It's really ok to say people who want kids with cancer, and people's grandmas, to die for lack of access to care are evil. If that's not evil, nothing is.
posted by emjaybee at 11:37 AM on June 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
Anyway, I am relieved the vote is delayed, but have no illusions about the next go round of Massive Tax Cuts for a Few, Death for Everyone Else bills they'll try.
And I second the call to just say people are evil for supporting this. It's really ok to say people who want kids with cancer, and people's grandmas, to die for lack of access to care are evil. If that's not evil, nothing is.
posted by emjaybee at 11:37 AM on June 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
[Folks, let's leave the one millionth 2016 election postmortem, I would literally rather have the ball kicking derail.]
Can you clarify the distinction, please?
posted by contraption at 11:37 AM on June 27, 2017 [56 favorites]
Can you clarify the distinction, please?
posted by contraption at 11:37 AM on June 27, 2017 [56 favorites]
it will become entirely obvious that it's possible to kick yourself in the balls.
Or just have a small child in the house and they'll manage to do it daily.
posted by Fleebnork at 11:38 AM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
Or just have a small child in the house and they'll manage to do it daily.
posted by Fleebnork at 11:38 AM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
You can actually do both:
- We're totally not Trump
- We're not Trump/Republicans because
- Single-payer healthcare
- Universal tertiary education
- Sane tax policies
- Infrastructure improvements
- LGTBQ as a protected class and continued domestic rights
- A living wage or universal basic income
Metafilter: Lie on your back, spread your legs, bring your heel to your balls and it will become entirely obvious
posted by penduluum at 11:38 AM on June 27, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by penduluum at 11:38 AM on June 27, 2017 [32 favorites]
So this is a (damn fine) historical drama based on the ad campaign for the anti-Pinochet side in Chile's 1988 plebiscite. You should all watch it right now. (okay, okay, you can wait until this evening.)
Initially the opposition to Pinochet wanted (understandably) to focus on Pinochet's crimes against humanity — to spend their very limited television time to spread the truth about the people he had disappeared, the casual state violence he deployed, etc. etc. — to focus on the (true) story of Pinochet as a vicious oppressive Hitlerian strongman. Their initial line was, in short, "oppose Pinochet because he's a monster"
The adman who ended up actually shaping the No campaign came over from (IIRC) Coca Cola, and the ads they ended up running looked like this. They presented opposition to Pinochet as fun, happy, fresh, and new. They sold freedom like it was a can of coke.
The no side won and Pinochet was deposed.
Telling what the monster does and why you should be scared doesn't win voters over; it just makes them more scared of the monster, and they end up not voting. Give people reason to feel happy about their situation — real reason to feel happy — and they'll turn out in droves.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:39 AM on June 27, 2017 [42 favorites]
Initially the opposition to Pinochet wanted (understandably) to focus on Pinochet's crimes against humanity — to spend their very limited television time to spread the truth about the people he had disappeared, the casual state violence he deployed, etc. etc. — to focus on the (true) story of Pinochet as a vicious oppressive Hitlerian strongman. Their initial line was, in short, "oppose Pinochet because he's a monster"
The adman who ended up actually shaping the No campaign came over from (IIRC) Coca Cola, and the ads they ended up running looked like this. They presented opposition to Pinochet as fun, happy, fresh, and new. They sold freedom like it was a can of coke.
The no side won and Pinochet was deposed.
Telling what the monster does and why you should be scared doesn't win voters over; it just makes them more scared of the monster, and they end up not voting. Give people reason to feel happy about their situation — real reason to feel happy — and they'll turn out in droves.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:39 AM on June 27, 2017 [42 favorites]
"Kicking yourself in the balls" - the euphemism for when "circular firing squad" is a hair too subtle.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 11:39 AM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Barack Spinoza at 11:39 AM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Sarah Huckabee Sanders steps in to introduce Rick Perry (it's "Energy Week"!) and take questions at the briefing, surprising even the White House staffer who set up the youtube link.
Perry is giving me W flashbacks and it's both comforting and unnerving. The way he says "nuclear" is delightful, but he's way too ignorant to be Sec of Energy.
posted by dis_integration at 11:42 AM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Perry is giving me W flashbacks and it's both comforting and unnerving. The way he says "nuclear" is delightful, but he's way too ignorant to be Sec of Energy.
posted by dis_integration at 11:42 AM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Telling what the monster does and why you should be scared doesn't win voters over; it just makes them more scared of the monster, and they end up not voting. Give people reason to feel happy about their situation — real reason to feel happy — and they'll turn out in droves.
Which is to say: offer hope. Which we've all seen work, quite soundly and quite recently.
posted by penduluum at 11:43 AM on June 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
Which is to say: offer hope. Which we've all seen work, quite soundly and quite recently.
posted by penduluum at 11:43 AM on June 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
it will become entirely obvious that it's possible to kick yourself in the balls.
As someone who used to skateboard, I can tell you this is indeed, unfortunately, possible. You can absolutely rack yourself in the junk with the heel of your own foot if you're flexible enough and gravitationally compromised.
posted by loquacious at 11:46 AM on June 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
As someone who used to skateboard, I can tell you this is indeed, unfortunately, possible. You can absolutely rack yourself in the junk with the heel of your own foot if you're flexible enough and gravitationally compromised.
posted by loquacious at 11:46 AM on June 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
It also depends on what kind of scrotum we're talking about here.
posted by peeedro at 11:47 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by peeedro at 11:47 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
MetaFilter: It also depends on what kind of scrotum we're talking about here.
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:48 AM on June 27, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:48 AM on June 27, 2017 [12 favorites]
And, really, if we wanted to offer a plan to ensure survival of the rural aesthetic, some combination of universal basic income and single-payer healthcare should be the hammer and tongs ^^with which^^ we go after that demographic.
I'll stop with the threadspam for a minute now.
posted by Fezboy! at 11:49 AM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'll stop with the threadspam for a minute now.
posted by Fezboy! at 11:49 AM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
The science of male psychology holds that any man, upon being told that he cannot kick himself in the balls, will immediately begin imagining and possibly attempting means of doing so.
A corollary of this fact is that men really shouldn't be put in charge of important things like government.
Thank you for indulging us this moment of whimsy, LobsterMitten. I'm done now.
posted by biogeo at 11:49 AM on June 27, 2017 [41 favorites]
A corollary of this fact is that men really shouldn't be put in charge of important things like government.
Thank you for indulging us this moment of whimsy, LobsterMitten. I'm done now.
posted by biogeo at 11:49 AM on June 27, 2017 [41 favorites]
Fox website doesn't have anything on the delay just yet, but there's a huge story about Obama going on vacation.
The headline is "Obamas under fire from the left for never ending, sizzling ultra-luxury vacations." I don't care if they're on vacation; he left office five months ago.
Trump: "You know Obama, if you're not careful you're gonna lose me."posted by kirkaracha at 11:50 AM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
Obama: "I lost you five months ago! Are you mental?"
And, really, if we wanted to offer a plan to ensure survival of the rural aesthetic, some combination of universal basic income and single-payer healthcare should be the hammer and tongs we go after that demographic.
You'd think that but they'll just see it as a hammer and sickle.
posted by Talez at 11:50 AM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
You'd think that but they'll just see it as a hammer and sickle.
posted by Talez at 11:50 AM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
I need to clarify: I don't mean we should go soft on these traitors. I do want to see the gloves come off on our side. I want candidates with teeth. We can't just have a singular negative message, though. It's not going to work if we say that the only problem in the system is that Trump's in charge right now. We have to have a compelling alternative vision to fight for.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 11:51 AM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Kitty Stardust at 11:51 AM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
You'd think that, but you wouldn't know that until you tried it with this framing.
posted by Fezboy! at 11:51 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Fezboy! at 11:51 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
This is a really important point, and it's worth studying carefully:
Clinton ran on "not Trump".
Not only did Clinton have a very extensive political platform, but so did every single other Democratic candidate on the ballot. If your impression is that the Democrats don't focus on the issues, that's a problem. Because they do. Clinton did not run last year as the"anti-Trump." She ran as a Democratic candidate who had focused for months on issues that included healthcare, education, women's rights, minority rights and racial justice, criminal reform, the economy, foreign policy and national security.
All of these are core issues to Democratic constituents. They're just as relevant now as they were last year. And those candidates all talked about them incessantly. Go look up their stump speeches on YouTube. It's in there.
So the question becomes why anyone might believe that Clinton had no discernible message other than "not Trump." How did they come to that conclusion? It couldn't have been from listening to what she was actually saying.
The media creates a narrative. Every election. They focus on creating and emphasizing conflicts between the candidates. The parties buy into it. It's a game to them. Politics as a sporting event. They all want you to view every election as an epic campaign between our side and the other side. One of which is evil, and the other is the Guardian of The One True Way.
It's epic, all right. Epic bullshit.
This is a pattern that needs to be broken if we are ever going to take back control of our government and our country. The first step, however, is recognizing that it exists in the first place.
posted by zarq at 11:52 AM on June 27, 2017 [168 favorites]
Clinton ran on "not Trump".
Not only did Clinton have a very extensive political platform, but so did every single other Democratic candidate on the ballot. If your impression is that the Democrats don't focus on the issues, that's a problem. Because they do. Clinton did not run last year as the"anti-Trump." She ran as a Democratic candidate who had focused for months on issues that included healthcare, education, women's rights, minority rights and racial justice, criminal reform, the economy, foreign policy and national security.
All of these are core issues to Democratic constituents. They're just as relevant now as they were last year. And those candidates all talked about them incessantly. Go look up their stump speeches on YouTube. It's in there.
So the question becomes why anyone might believe that Clinton had no discernible message other than "not Trump." How did they come to that conclusion? It couldn't have been from listening to what she was actually saying.
The media creates a narrative. Every election. They focus on creating and emphasizing conflicts between the candidates. The parties buy into it. It's a game to them. Politics as a sporting event. They all want you to view every election as an epic campaign between our side and the other side. One of which is evil, and the other is the Guardian of The One True Way.
It's epic, all right. Epic bullshit.
This is a pattern that needs to be broken if we are ever going to take back control of our government and our country. The first step, however, is recognizing that it exists in the first place.
posted by zarq at 11:52 AM on June 27, 2017 [168 favorites]
We're gonna need single payer in this thread, what with all the self-inflicted testicular injuries.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 11:53 AM on June 27, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Barack Spinoza at 11:53 AM on June 27, 2017 [13 favorites]
The takeaway is that Democratic messaging should be "We're the party of 'Let's stop kicking ourselves in the balls, here'"
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:53 AM on June 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:53 AM on June 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
I think it would work across the pond for Labour as well.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:54 AM on June 27, 2017
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:54 AM on June 27, 2017
zarq, I would favorite that a thousand times if I could. It infuriates me every time I see this claim. The only way people could believe it is if they weren't paying attention.
posted by biogeo at 11:55 AM on June 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by biogeo at 11:55 AM on June 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
so here's my proposed ad.
CHARACTERS
Smart co-worker is like "why don't you do it?"
Big idea worker replies "I'd love to... but there's no way I could go without health insurance for my kids."
Smart co-worker hands over a flier for [candidate who's hijacked the Democratic Party]. "Have you heard about [candidate's] single payer plan? When s/he wins, you and your kids will be covered no matter what. You can get out of here, and start your [foo] business!"
Big idea worker: That's great! Everyone should vote for [candidate]!
Asshole boss shouting from his office: SHUT UP AND GET BACK TO WORK YOU MORONS
Big idea worker: ugh, I hate this guy.
cheerful voiceover: HATE YOUR BOSS? VOTE FOR SINGLE PAYER HEALTH CARE! VOTE FOR [CANDIDATE]!
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:55 AM on June 27, 2017 [92 favorites]
CHARACTERS
- Office worker stuck doing meaningless job. They have an idea for a business doing [insert line of business focus-grouped to the nth degree; something everyone can agree is a great idea that everyone wants to see more of]
- Office worker's idiot boss, who is just the worst abusive, idiotic white man. He's got a shitty combover and he's always shouting his idiot ideas. He's openly disrespectful toward his employees and their work.
- Smart co-worker. She's wearing a subtle rose pin.
Smart co-worker is like "why don't you do it?"
Big idea worker replies "I'd love to... but there's no way I could go without health insurance for my kids."
Smart co-worker hands over a flier for [candidate who's hijacked the Democratic Party]. "Have you heard about [candidate's] single payer plan? When s/he wins, you and your kids will be covered no matter what. You can get out of here, and start your [foo] business!"
Big idea worker: That's great! Everyone should vote for [candidate]!
Asshole boss shouting from his office: SHUT UP AND GET BACK TO WORK YOU MORONS
Big idea worker: ugh, I hate this guy.
cheerful voiceover: HATE YOUR BOSS? VOTE FOR SINGLE PAYER HEALTH CARE! VOTE FOR [CANDIDATE]!
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:55 AM on June 27, 2017 [92 favorites]
"We're gonna fight this bill tooth and nail and we have a darn good chance of defeating it." - Sen. Chuck Schumer on Trumpcare
posted by Barack Spinoza at 11:56 AM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Barack Spinoza at 11:56 AM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
so here's my proposed ad.
SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY
posted by biogeo at 11:58 AM on June 27, 2017 [18 favorites]
SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY
posted by biogeo at 11:58 AM on June 27, 2017 [18 favorites]
The science of male psychology holds that any man, upon being told that he cannot kick himself in the balls, will immediately begin imagining and possibly attempting means of doing so.
Gentle reminder, to this and other comments as well, that {men} and {people with balls} are not equal sets.
posted by one for the books at 11:58 AM on June 27, 2017 [16 favorites]
Gentle reminder, to this and other comments as well, that {men} and {people with balls} are not equal sets.
posted by one for the books at 11:58 AM on June 27, 2017 [16 favorites]
That's what I'm talking about, YCTAB!
posted by Kitty Stardust at 11:59 AM on June 27, 2017
posted by Kitty Stardust at 11:59 AM on June 27, 2017
cheerful voiceover: HATE YOUR BOSS? VOTE FOR SINGLE PAYER HEALTH CARE! VOTE FOR [CANDIDATE]!
Meanwhile, a guy with a little red pin with part of a globe and the letters I.W.W. sidles over and adds, "It's clear the working class and the employing class have nothing in common..."
I kid, I kid. I mean, yes, at the current moment I think it would be a great move if the resistance party started using the entirely successful tools of union organizing, I just think the pie cards that fund the Democratic Party might have something to say about it.
posted by corb at 12:01 PM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
Meanwhile, a guy with a little red pin with part of a globe and the letters I.W.W. sidles over and adds, "It's clear the working class and the employing class have nothing in common..."
I kid, I kid. I mean, yes, at the current moment I think it would be a great move if the resistance party started using the entirely successful tools of union organizing, I just think the pie cards that fund the Democratic Party might have something to say about it.
posted by corb at 12:01 PM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
I've gotta say, I am deeply proud of where this stupid Dan Sullivan insult has gone.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:02 PM on June 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:02 PM on June 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
MetaFilter: It's epic, all right. Epic bullshit.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:03 PM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 12:03 PM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yaaas, yctab...but, I suggest messaging should be Medicare for all. It's, for all intents and purposes the same thing, but single payer has been semantically tainted. Medicare is beloved by all.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 12:03 PM on June 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 12:03 PM on June 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
I have a few thoughts on the recent news that McConnell is going to delay the vote.
- McConnell is very well versed in legislative procedure. We must be on the look out for surprise votes or tactics from him.
- McConnell, Cornyn, and the whip team will be putting 1000 Gs of pressure on the holdouts--they have to get this bill through to pass their predatory tax legislation.
- It seems likely that this move is intended to tamp down the fire under our asses enough that we don't resist as strongly over the recess. Thus, is it imperative that we put any vulnerable or wavering Senators in to a pressure cooker of public opposition.
- This particular fight over the reconciliation bill is only one small fight. This bill will almost certainly be back in some form, as evidenced by the AHCA in the House.
- We must make all Congressional Republicans look cowardly, unprincipled, and uncaring as often as possible over the recess--preferably with media coverage. They must feel as though they cannot vote for this bill at any stage.
- Keep calling, writing, and faxing. Jam up the phone lines, fill up voice mail boxes, protest at offices.
Shoot, this is the first (and only) thing I've ever heard about Dan Sullivan.
posted by orrnyereg at 12:04 PM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by orrnyereg at 12:04 PM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
> I just think the pie cards that fund the Democratic Party might have something to say about it.
I mean, Corbyn has successfully committed grand theft political-party. Sanders came close to successfully committing grand theft political-party. Maybe DSA or whoever can successfully hijack the Democrats next time 'round.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:08 PM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
I mean, Corbyn has successfully committed grand theft political-party. Sanders came close to successfully committing grand theft political-party. Maybe DSA or whoever can successfully hijack the Democrats next time 'round.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:08 PM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
But Corbyn is actually a Labour MP so how is he hijacking his own party?
posted by asteria at 12:10 PM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by asteria at 12:10 PM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
I suggest that folks go back and read these threads when the DNC was happening. We were all punching the air and weeping tears of patriotic joy and shouting YES! STRONGER TOGETHER! USA! USA! USA! It was not just four days filled with speakers saying "Hello, I am also not Donald Trump." and then leaving the stage.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:10 PM on June 27, 2017 [61 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:10 PM on June 27, 2017 [61 favorites]
The 4 most brutal numbers in that poll showing the world hates Trump
1. The world distrusts Trump more than even Vladimir Putinposted by kirkaracha at 12:12 PM on June 27, 2017 [39 favorites]
2. In each of allied countries, 9 out of 10 view Trump as "arrogant," 7 in 10 as "dangerous"
3. Even nationalists don't love Trump
4. Trump's reputation is already worse than George W. Bush's -- at the depths of his presidency
Um, Sarah Sanders just told everyone in the country we have to watch a James O'Keefe video that she doesn't know it's accurate or not.
posted by zachlipton at 12:16 PM on June 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:16 PM on June 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
Mod note: Couple deleted. Imagine a world where we're not going to fight about how different people conducted themselves at the DNC in 2016. We can build that world.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:17 PM on June 27, 2017 [47 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:17 PM on June 27, 2017 [47 favorites]
So.... I guess I get to make carrot cake tonight!
Mind, given the way my last cake magic sort of backfired (success, then a week later they passed the fucker) I'm not sure I want to invoke the cake magic this time. But, on the gripping hand, carrot cake!
So I'll make a carrot cake, magic or no magic.
posted by sotonohito at 12:17 PM on June 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
Mind, given the way my last cake magic sort of backfired (success, then a week later they passed the fucker) I'm not sure I want to invoke the cake magic this time. But, on the gripping hand, carrot cake!
So I'll make a carrot cake, magic or no magic.
posted by sotonohito at 12:17 PM on June 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
Basically all of the rhetoric that the right uses to attack the estate tax we can repurpose to demand single payer (or some other guaranteed, no-cost, universal coverage).
"posted by melissasaurus at 12:18 PM on June 27, 2017 [19 favorites]This tax[Lack of single payer] punishes farmers and entrepreneurs for a lifetime of hard work." [Sen. John Thune] [link]
McConnell called thetax[lack of single payer] "unfair" and "anti-family." "The thought of having to visit theIRS[hospital debt collector] and the undertaker on the same day is an absolute outrage." [link]
"Thedeath tax[lack of Medicare for All] is morally wrong and devastates family-owned farms and businesses across the country," Rubio said. [link]
Here's a whole Republican congressional study on the "impacts" of the estate tax. [note: this being a GOP report, these are not the actual impacts of the estate tax]
YCTAB: After the cut, you could flash forward to both the old boss and his former employee reuniting at a Chamber of Commerce meeting. Both are all smiles, with the boss looking years younger and much less disheveled.
Former-Asshole Boss: Hey it's my favorite big idea guy! Everybody at the office is talking about what a big shot you are now!
Big-Idea Employee: Wow former-boss, you look great! What's your secret?
Former-Asshole Boss: Oh, now that I don't have to pay for health plans, I've been able to hire on extra help and I don't have to be stressed out all the time!
Single-payer benefits everybody.
posted by prosopagnosia at 12:21 PM on June 27, 2017 [28 favorites]
Former-Asshole Boss: Hey it's my favorite big idea guy! Everybody at the office is talking about what a big shot you are now!
Big-Idea Employee: Wow former-boss, you look great! What's your secret?
Former-Asshole Boss: Oh, now that I don't have to pay for health plans, I've been able to hire on extra help and I don't have to be stressed out all the time!
Single-payer benefits everybody.
posted by prosopagnosia at 12:21 PM on June 27, 2017 [28 favorites]
Who wants Hugh Hewitt's delicious tears?
(as an aside, what of parents, knowing their child will have the surname Hewitt, name their kid Hugh? too cutesy by half.)
posted by orrnyereg at 12:23 PM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
(as an aside, what of parents, knowing their child will have the surname Hewitt, name their kid Hugh? too cutesy by half.)
posted by orrnyereg at 12:23 PM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
This is the GOP’s last chance to avert single-payer
Oh no, not {ominous music} single paaaayeerrrrr--dun dun duuuuun!!!
I can't even follow his argument. "Obamacare doesn't cover enough people and Medicare needs to be reformed so it provides more and better care. So why aren't these 10 Senators willing to vote for a bill covers millions fewer people and lowers the quality of care for many more? It is a mystery!"
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:29 PM on June 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
Oh no, not {ominous music} single paaaayeerrrrr--dun dun duuuuun!!!
I can't even follow his argument. "Obamacare doesn't cover enough people and Medicare needs to be reformed so it provides more and better care. So why aren't these 10 Senators willing to vote for a bill covers millions fewer people and lowers the quality of care for many more? It is a mystery!"
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:29 PM on June 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
I once knew a man named Thomas Thomas. Some people make weird naming decisions.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:30 PM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:30 PM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Thomas Thomas, hell. I once had a student named John Thomas.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:32 PM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:32 PM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Guys, this bill is gold. I'm having the best time with the people over on other social media who are trying to defend it. I get to take positions like, 'killing people for money is wrong.' I get to quote Jesus at them, it's hilarious. I get to ask people how is this better than Obamacare, like Trump promised? I get to ask people if they'd knock off a sick person for an extra discount on their insurance. And at every turn, they're admitting that they want to let sick people die to give tax breaks to the rich.
This bill is so blatantly, heinously immoral that it's straining the cognitive dissonance of even the true believers. This is ammunition. The Republicans have exposed what they truly stand for, and it's simply and demonstrably wrong. Wrong in such a way that it's easily explainable in simple terms. Wrong in a very real and emotionally resonant way.
We can use this.
posted by MrVisible at 12:33 PM on June 27, 2017 [101 favorites]
This bill is so blatantly, heinously immoral that it's straining the cognitive dissonance of even the true believers. This is ammunition. The Republicans have exposed what they truly stand for, and it's simply and demonstrably wrong. Wrong in such a way that it's easily explainable in simple terms. Wrong in a very real and emotionally resonant way.
We can use this.
posted by MrVisible at 12:33 PM on June 27, 2017 [101 favorites]
I once knew a man named Thomas Thomas.
Ah yes, the inventor of GPS.
Think about it.
posted by Servo5678 at 12:33 PM on June 27, 2017 [17 favorites]
Ah yes, the inventor of GPS.
Think about it.
posted by Servo5678 at 12:33 PM on June 27, 2017 [17 favorites]
I am not getting the Thomas jokes here :(
posted by Melismata at 12:34 PM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Melismata at 12:34 PM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Gentle reminder, to this and other comments as well, that {men} and {people with balls} are not equal sets.
Point is well taken. Though I suggest that men without balls will nevertheless brainstorm creative solutions to the problem of kicking themselves in them, because the human spirit is indomitable.
Setting aside puerile foolishness, I'd like to affirm that I don't actually believe in the gender essentialism of my joke. All of us, regardless of gender, are prone to kicking ourselves in the metaphorical balls just to make a point, and I think neither gender nor anatomy has much to do with it. I hope we can all enjoy silly jokes about self-inflicted suffering, but those jokes are less important to me than not further isolating those who have to struggle with social marginalization due to gender presentation. Making dumb jokes at the expense of those who struggle with gender more than I do would be, for me, really kicking myself in the balls.
posted by biogeo at 12:35 PM on June 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
Point is well taken. Though I suggest that men without balls will nevertheless brainstorm creative solutions to the problem of kicking themselves in them, because the human spirit is indomitable.
Setting aside puerile foolishness, I'd like to affirm that I don't actually believe in the gender essentialism of my joke. All of us, regardless of gender, are prone to kicking ourselves in the metaphorical balls just to make a point, and I think neither gender nor anatomy has much to do with it. I hope we can all enjoy silly jokes about self-inflicted suffering, but those jokes are less important to me than not further isolating those who have to struggle with social marginalization due to gender presentation. Making dumb jokes at the expense of those who struggle with gender more than I do would be, for me, really kicking myself in the balls.
posted by biogeo at 12:35 PM on June 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
Who wants Hugh Hewitt's delicious tears?
posted by Talez at 12:35 PM on June 27, 2017 [20 favorites]
headed for the misery of single-payerOh no not the misery of single payer! The abomination of getting healthcare even if you can't pay! To not worry about medical bills while afflicted with cancer! To be able to strike out on your own without the uncertainty that is not having medical coverage! America, the shining city on a hill, will be as dim as her other first world compatriots who have already flung themselves into the abyss and left wanting with a healthy populace.
posted by Talez at 12:35 PM on June 27, 2017 [20 favorites]
Let's not be ableist, either. Some people need Medicaid to provide home aids to assist with hitting themselves in their most kick-sensitive region, wherever that might be for any particular individual.
posted by 0xFCAF at 12:42 PM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by 0xFCAF at 12:42 PM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
I knew a guy in college named Richard Goodnuff. His nickname was Penis Adequate.
That is all.
posted by lazaruslong at 12:45 PM on June 27, 2017 [29 favorites]
That is all.
posted by lazaruslong at 12:45 PM on June 27, 2017 [29 favorites]
I am not getting the Thomas jokes here :(
John Thomas is a mostly-British euphemism for the human penis. themoreyouknow.jpg
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:47 PM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
John Thomas is a mostly-British euphemism for the human penis. themoreyouknow.jpg
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:47 PM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
I knew a guy in college named Richard Goodnuff. His nickname was Penis Adequate.
That is all.
posted by lazaruslong
Look, you don't have to lord it over the rest of us.
posted by biogeo at 12:47 PM on June 27, 2017 [13 favorites]
That is all.
posted by lazaruslong
Look, you don't have to lord it over the rest of us.
posted by biogeo at 12:47 PM on June 27, 2017 [13 favorites]
Mod note: Ok gang, enough.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:48 PM on June 27, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:48 PM on June 27, 2017 [12 favorites]
Back to Senator Sullivan. He loves the military. He feels strongly about opioid addiction and resulting problems. When I call, I mention the opioid problem. Another thing is that Alaska is using the Medicaid expansion money to bolster mental health care in the Bush - the off road villages. I always mention that, too. I don't know how to work the military angle.
posted by kerf at 12:49 PM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by kerf at 12:49 PM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
I don't know how to work the military angle.
Hard to join the military if you're dead from a treatable childhood illness.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:52 PM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
Hard to join the military if you're dead from a treatable childhood illness.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:52 PM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
I know it's from forever ago (well, about 13 hours, but that's forever these days), but I made a "NOT ALL SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS" kind of comment, not expecting any replies. I did get one, so I suppose I'd be remiss if I didn't respond:
@CommonSense Even in these hallowed blue election threads we can forget the multitudes and that makes it hard to construct positive action in the outside world. Would you be willing to share how the current health care system affects you as a small business owner and how it works for your employees? If we have an opportunity to improve what exists, what are your priorities? I am interested in learning.
Shortly after I purchased this business in late 2009, I decided to have the company offer health insurance to full-time employees. I couldn't afford to do it for part-timers, and I couldn't afford to do more than just cover 50% of the premiums for the employee (and unfortunately, nothing for defendants). We were (and still are) just too small and it wasn't affordable to do anything beyond that. Still, for a company our size (about 5-6 employees at the time; 12-13 now, depending how some current staffing drama shakes out), I think it was notable. And beyond that, I just felt it was unconscionable to allow these folks to not have any health coverage at all. Coincidentally, we implemented health insurance just as the entire ACA war was ramping up in 2010.
There are often months when I get that bill and groan and wish I never brought in the health insurance, especially with cash flow having been a hell of a nightmare lately. But at this point, it'd be damn near unforgivable to take it away.
Knowing Republicans as I do, I never fall for their "pro-business" horseshit or for the lie that they're looking out for me. (Would that we could say the same of most other small business owners, but hey, there's no civics/critical thinking requirement for becoming a business owner, alas.) I'm personally all for single-payer as the ideal, ultimate goal (and really, any THINKING business owner should be), but who knows if I'll see that in my lifetime. And I'm 42.
posted by CommonSense at 1:05 PM on June 27, 2017 [37 favorites]
@CommonSense Even in these hallowed blue election threads we can forget the multitudes and that makes it hard to construct positive action in the outside world. Would you be willing to share how the current health care system affects you as a small business owner and how it works for your employees? If we have an opportunity to improve what exists, what are your priorities? I am interested in learning.
Shortly after I purchased this business in late 2009, I decided to have the company offer health insurance to full-time employees. I couldn't afford to do it for part-timers, and I couldn't afford to do more than just cover 50% of the premiums for the employee (and unfortunately, nothing for defendants). We were (and still are) just too small and it wasn't affordable to do anything beyond that. Still, for a company our size (about 5-6 employees at the time; 12-13 now, depending how some current staffing drama shakes out), I think it was notable. And beyond that, I just felt it was unconscionable to allow these folks to not have any health coverage at all. Coincidentally, we implemented health insurance just as the entire ACA war was ramping up in 2010.
There are often months when I get that bill and groan and wish I never brought in the health insurance, especially with cash flow having been a hell of a nightmare lately. But at this point, it'd be damn near unforgivable to take it away.
Knowing Republicans as I do, I never fall for their "pro-business" horseshit or for the lie that they're looking out for me. (Would that we could say the same of most other small business owners, but hey, there's no civics/critical thinking requirement for becoming a business owner, alas.) I'm personally all for single-payer as the ideal, ultimate goal (and really, any THINKING business owner should be), but who knows if I'll see that in my lifetime. And I'm 42.
posted by CommonSense at 1:05 PM on June 27, 2017 [37 favorites]
Jerry Moran (Kansas) came out against the bill as did Senators Capito and Portman after the vote got pulled. (Aside: didn't Portman write the damn thing?)
posted by TwoWordReview at 1:07 PM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by TwoWordReview at 1:07 PM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
cheerful voiceover: HATE YOUR BOSS? VOTE FOR SINGLE PAYER HEALTH CARE! VOTE FOR [CANDIDATE]!
The greatest mistake that the American Labor Movement ever made was making employer-provided healthcare one of their standard demands. So, while the rest of the world got Universal Coverage, America got "Tied to Your Job" Coverage.
I'm personally all for single-payer as the ideal, ultimate goal (and really, any THINKING business owner should be)
The THINKING that business owners do is far too often based on "how do I make my employees totally dependent on me and able to tolerate any crap I give them without quitting?"
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:17 PM on June 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
The greatest mistake that the American Labor Movement ever made was making employer-provided healthcare one of their standard demands. So, while the rest of the world got Universal Coverage, America got "Tied to Your Job" Coverage.
I'm personally all for single-payer as the ideal, ultimate goal (and really, any THINKING business owner should be)
The THINKING that business owners do is far too often based on "how do I make my employees totally dependent on me and able to tolerate any crap I give them without quitting?"
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:17 PM on June 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
The greatest mistake that the American Labor Movement ever made was making employer-provided healthcare one of their standard demands. So, while the rest of the world got Universal Coverage, America got "Tied to Your Job" Coverage.
Wasn't this more of an employer led initiative? And wasn't there a push for single payer in the 1930's?
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:22 PM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Wasn't this more of an employer led initiative? And wasn't there a push for single payer in the 1930's?
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:22 PM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Wasn't this more of an employer led initiative?
What I have heard is that it originated in WW2, when there were wage freezes. Companies sought and obtained permission from Congress to offer health benefits, as a way to try to entice better workers.
posted by thelonius at 1:25 PM on June 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
What I have heard is that it originated in WW2, when there were wage freezes. Companies sought and obtained permission from Congress to offer health benefits, as a way to try to entice better workers.
posted by thelonius at 1:25 PM on June 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
So I'll make a carrot cake, magic or no magic.
That's true American spirit right there! U!S!A! U!S!A! U!S!A!
I'm kind of suprised the Khasshogi/Deutsche Bank story got no comments. The $300M loan up to 1B personally guaranteed is a much more driving motive for President TwoScoops than any 12-dimensional Russia-will-win-it-for-us or supposed mob leverage. Yeah it's all a fragrant porridge but Trump losing his actual THINGS, which define him, that's a pretty interesting, whattya call it, motive, I think.
posted by petebest at 1:30 PM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
That's true American spirit right there! U!S!A! U!S!A! U!S!A!
I'm kind of suprised the Khasshogi/Deutsche Bank story got no comments. The $300M loan up to 1B personally guaranteed is a much more driving motive for President TwoScoops than any 12-dimensional Russia-will-win-it-for-us or supposed mob leverage. Yeah it's all a fragrant porridge but Trump losing his actual THINGS, which define him, that's a pretty interesting, whattya call it, motive, I think.
posted by petebest at 1:30 PM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Wasn't this more of an employer led initiative? And wasn't there a push for single payer in the 1930's?
Here's a brief history of employer-based healthcare programs in the US from 1789-2000.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:30 PM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
Here's a brief history of employer-based healthcare programs in the US from 1789-2000.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:30 PM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
Oh shit, it is my birthday today. I can take no credit for the healthcare stall, but it was certainly on my subliminal wish list.
posted by narwhal at 1:33 PM on June 27, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by narwhal at 1:33 PM on June 27, 2017 [16 favorites]
I'm kind of surprised the Khasshogi/Deutsche Bank story got no comments.
I'm gonna wait for it to hit an outlet beyond Daniel Hopsicker's MadCowNews.
posted by diogenes at 1:36 PM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm gonna wait for it to hit an outlet beyond Daniel Hopsicker's MadCowNews.
posted by diogenes at 1:36 PM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Um. The President of the United States on health care: "This will be great if we get it done and if we don’t get it done, it’s just going to be something that we’re not going to like and that’s okay and I understand that very well."
[I think this is like the 10th comment this week I've started with "um." It's that kind of a week.]
posted by zachlipton at 1:37 PM on June 27, 2017 [36 favorites]
[I think this is like the 10th comment this week I've started with "um." It's that kind of a week.]
posted by zachlipton at 1:37 PM on June 27, 2017 [36 favorites]
This will be great if we get it done and if we don’t get it done, it’s just going to be something that we’re not going to like and that’s okay and I understand that very well.
I don't think Trump appreciates the ramifications for House and Senate Republicans if they fail on this. (This is a good thing.)
posted by diogenes at 1:43 PM on June 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
I don't think Trump appreciates the ramifications for House and Senate Republicans if they fail on this. (This is a good thing.)
posted by diogenes at 1:43 PM on June 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
This will be great if we get it done and if we don’t get it done, it’s just going to be something that we’re not going to like and that’s okay and I understand that very well
What does that even mean?
posted by suelac at 1:43 PM on June 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
What does that even mean?
posted by suelac at 1:43 PM on June 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
What does that even mean?
I mean it's Trump, so who knows, but it sounds to me like he really doesn't give a shit either way.
posted by diogenes at 1:45 PM on June 27, 2017 [10 favorites]
I mean it's Trump, so who knows, but it sounds to me like he really doesn't give a shit either way.
posted by diogenes at 1:45 PM on June 27, 2017 [10 favorites]
What a waste it is to lose one's mind or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:45 PM on June 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:45 PM on June 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
This will be great if we get it done and if we don’t get it done, it’s just going to be something that we’re not going to like and that’s okay and I understand that very well
What does that even mean?
I read it as Dampnut the real estate guy saying "Oh, we didn't get the permits to level that low income housing to build a skyscraper with my name on it? Ok, let's move on, there will always be another thing to destroy, and another building to put my name on..."
posted by OHenryPacey at 1:46 PM on June 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
What does that even mean?
I read it as Dampnut the real estate guy saying "Oh, we didn't get the permits to level that low income housing to build a skyscraper with my name on it? Ok, let's move on, there will always be another thing to destroy, and another building to put my name on..."
posted by OHenryPacey at 1:46 PM on June 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
I don't think Trump appreciates the ramifications for House and Senate Republicans if they fail on this. (This is a good thing.)
I don't think Trump has any idea what's going on about anything.
posted by Melismata at 1:46 PM on June 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
I don't think Trump has any idea what's going on about anything.
posted by Melismata at 1:46 PM on June 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
"If we can't get this bill through I'll just continue to sabotage the ACA and people will lose coverage and die regardless so no biggie, we'll just try for the tax cuts some other way."
posted by contraption at 1:48 PM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by contraption at 1:48 PM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
There are done dones: there are things we did do. We also know there are undone dones; that is to say we did not do some things we did. But there are also undone undones: the ones we didn't not do, and that is tremendous.
posted by Behemoth at 1:49 PM on June 27, 2017 [40 favorites]
posted by Behemoth at 1:49 PM on June 27, 2017 [40 favorites]
It's nice that the Senate knows they won't get any support from the White House on this one. He's laying it at their doorstep and walking away.
posted by MrVisible at 1:50 PM on June 27, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by MrVisible at 1:50 PM on June 27, 2017 [12 favorites]
Sounds like he's lighting the bag on fire first, though
posted by Barack Spinoza at 1:51 PM on June 27, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by Barack Spinoza at 1:51 PM on June 27, 2017 [19 favorites]
Trump: Man the barricades! Or don't. I don't really care.
posted by diogenes at 1:53 PM on June 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 1:53 PM on June 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
What does that even mean?
If you're asking, 'what is he even attempting to say in English?' he's saying, "It'd be great to get this through. It'll be a bummer if we can't, but I guess shit happens lol"
If you mean 'what are the ramifications of our President being a hapless moron,' then I'm afraid I can't help you. Hopefully a pretty good punk music resurgence in about 2 years? I donno.
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 1:54 PM on June 27, 2017 [33 favorites]
If you're asking, 'what is he even attempting to say in English?' he's saying, "It'd be great to get this through. It'll be a bummer if we can't, but I guess shit happens lol"
If you mean 'what are the ramifications of our President being a hapless moron,' then I'm afraid I can't help you. Hopefully a pretty good punk music resurgence in about 2 years? I donno.
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 1:54 PM on June 27, 2017 [33 favorites]
I'm telling ya, the iron might be hot enough to strike soon. Dems need to come out with some version of "Enough is enough, you saw what these immoral, craven, greedy bastards put forth as acceptable health care. Let's punish 'em good—turn the House and the Senate in 2018 and we promise single-payer. Paid for by a tax on the wealthy."
posted by Rykey at 1:55 PM on June 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Rykey at 1:55 PM on June 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
the best part is how furious the " i didn't think the tiger would eat my face" stalwarts in the party must be when he pulls shit like this!
posted by OHenryPacey at 1:56 PM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by OHenryPacey at 1:56 PM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Robert Costa and Sean Sullivan / WaPo: The Trump-McConnell bond is being tested. So is the GOP agenda.
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) has occasionally remarked that he has an unusual relationship with President Trump: Unlike most congressional leaders, he has managed to escape Trump’s wrath.posted by ZeusHumms at 1:58 PM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
“He’s never, as far as I can tell, gotten angry at me — in my presence, anyway,” McConnell said last month.
That fragile peace between a taciturn insider and a brash newcomer, which has helped both men pursue Republican priorities, faces an uncertain future this week as a major rewrite of the nation’s health-care laws clings to political life in the Senate.
McConnell and Trump both remain hungry for a win. But their understanding, built to score legislative victories, does neither of them any good if victories remain out of reach.
Sounds like he's lighting the bag on fire first, though
The flaming pile of shit was in their hearts all along.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:58 PM on June 27, 2017 [37 favorites]
The flaming pile of shit was in their hearts all along.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:58 PM on June 27, 2017 [37 favorites]
> Video via Twitter of the exchange, of which the above isn't a summary: she literally says 'there's a video that's circulating now, whether it's accurate or not I don't know' but encourages people to watch it, and then goes on to castigate 'the media' for peddling...inaccurate information.
"In order to defeat the fake news, we had to become it."
posted by tonycpsu at 1:59 PM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
"In order to defeat the fake news, we had to become it."
posted by tonycpsu at 1:59 PM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
This is weird - McConnell not reaching out to key opposition senators.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:00 PM on June 27, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 2:00 PM on June 27, 2017 [10 favorites]
Remember that Trump as few, if any, actual ideological convictions. He cares about this to the extent that it would have been a victory over Obama.
Trump has no ideology from which policies & strategies can be derived. He wants a system with himself at the center making all the decisions using his own inner calculus of grudges, greed, grift, preening, shifting blame, retaliating, punishing & rewarding. It's all about what's going on in his mind & has very little to do with the specifics of the situation or the players.
posted by scalefree at 2:02 PM on June 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
Trump has no ideology from which policies & strategies can be derived. He wants a system with himself at the center making all the decisions using his own inner calculus of grudges, greed, grift, preening, shifting blame, retaliating, punishing & rewarding. It's all about what's going on in his mind & has very little to do with the specifics of the situation or the players.
posted by scalefree at 2:02 PM on June 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
I can't really blame him. Can you imagine committing to another 2-3 weeks of daily meetings with Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan? I don't think even the sort of people who enjoy hanging out with Republican Congresspeople like those two. Better to pretend like you never cared about this anyway so they don't try to involve you at all.
posted by Copronymus at 2:03 PM on June 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Copronymus at 2:03 PM on June 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
It must be strange to be a Republican lifer right now because their party leader doesn't give a shit about anything he ran on, and there are fewer straws to grasp as he fails to live up to his campaign pledges ( I hate to use the word promises with him).
It's all about cult of personality with him, which can't bode well for campaigners who need something to stump about.
2017....
posted by OHenryPacey at 2:04 PM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's all about cult of personality with him, which can't bode well for campaigners who need something to stump about.
2017....
posted by OHenryPacey at 2:04 PM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Paul Ryan Explains Why 22 Million Will Be Uninsured and He’s Got a Point
posted by Talez at 2:08 PM on June 27, 2017 [33 favorites]
“What they’re basically saying at the Congressional Budget Office is if you’re not going to force people to buy Obamacare, if you’re not going to force people to buy something that they don’t want, then they won’t buy it,” Ryan said on Fox News of the CBO analysis that cited the 22 million uninsured. “So, it’s not that people are getting pushed off a plan, it’s that people will choose not to buy something they don’t like or want.”Congratulations, Mr Ryan. On a day when Trump said, and I quote, "So they caught Fake News CNN cold, but what about NBC, CBS & ABC? What about the failing @nytimes & @washingtonpost? They are all Fake News!" you still said the most intellectually dishonest and dumbest fucking thing today.
posted by Talez at 2:08 PM on June 27, 2017 [33 favorites]
I'm gonna wait for it to hit an outlet beyond Daniel Hopsicker's MadCowNews.
Investopedia?
Bloomberg?
Gruaniad?
MotherJones?
Cracked?
ProPublica?
CNN?
posted by petebest at 2:09 PM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
Investopedia?
Bloomberg?
Gruaniad?
MotherJones?
Cracked?
ProPublica?
CNN?
posted by petebest at 2:09 PM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
From yesterday, Media Matters: White House threatens to sabotage insurance of low-income people if Trumpcare isn’t passed
Spicer made clear that the administration will do what it can to continue to destabilize Obamacare exchanges by only committing to the CSR payments one month at a time.
“We committed to making them last month, and that’s as far as we will go at this time,” Spicer said. “We’re not committing to them this month.”
“If we can pass health care overall, then that changes the dynamic,” Spicer said. “It will ultimately be up to the president to decide.”
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:12 PM on June 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
Spicer made clear that the administration will do what it can to continue to destabilize Obamacare exchanges by only committing to the CSR payments one month at a time.
“We committed to making them last month, and that’s as far as we will go at this time,” Spicer said. “We’re not committing to them this month.”
“If we can pass health care overall, then that changes the dynamic,” Spicer said. “It will ultimately be up to the president to decide.”
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:12 PM on June 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
National Treasure Charles P. Pierce of Esquire: The White House Just Declared War on CNN
Includes a great video of journalist Brian Karem giving Sarah Huckabee Sanders a piece of his mind.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:15 PM on June 27, 2017 [15 favorites]
Includes a great video of journalist Brian Karem giving Sarah Huckabee Sanders a piece of his mind.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:15 PM on June 27, 2017 [15 favorites]
Reuters: Exclusive: Trump administration eyes hardening line toward Pakistan
In other news, Brian Karem, who took on Sarah Sanders over her press bashing, writes for both the Sentinel Newspapers (Montgomery and Prince George's counties) and Playboy. So yeah, 2017 in a nutshell there. Some analysis from Aaron Blake: Sarah Huckabee Sanders lambastes fake news — and then promotes a journalist accused of deceptive videos. I also really like Phillip Bump's take (and not just because he was taking our picks on Twitter when he went to watch horse racing the other day)—Trump’s asymmetric warfare against the media continues to pay off. In short, Trump has no commitment to accuracy and never admits he was wrong, yet he ruthlessly blames people who do care about the truth for their every mistake.
And please enjoy the look on Sen. Murkowski's face and this gif of Sen. Yertle McConnell.
posted by zachlipton at 2:16 PM on June 27, 2017 [30 favorites]
President Donald Trump's administration is exploring hardening its approach toward Pakistan to crack down on Pakistan-based militants launching attacks in neighboring Afghanistan, two U.S. officials tell Reuters.Hardening lines toward Pakistan, Syria, Iran, Qatar. This is getting to be a lot of hard lines.
Potential Trump administration responses being discussed include expanding U.S. drone strikes, redirecting or withholding some aid to Pakistan and perhaps eventually downgrading Pakistan's status as a major non-NATO ally, the two officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity.
Other U.S. officials are skeptical of the prospects for success, arguing that years of previous U.S. efforts to curb Pakistan's support for militant groups have failed, and that already strengthening U.S. ties to India, Pakistan's arch-enemy, undermine chances of a breakthrough with Islamabad.
U.S. officials say generally they seek greater cooperation with Pakistan, not a rupture in ties, once the administration finishes a regional review, due by mid-July, of the strategy guiding the 16-year-old war in Afghanistan.
In other news, Brian Karem, who took on Sarah Sanders over her press bashing, writes for both the Sentinel Newspapers (Montgomery and Prince George's counties) and Playboy. So yeah, 2017 in a nutshell there. Some analysis from Aaron Blake: Sarah Huckabee Sanders lambastes fake news — and then promotes a journalist accused of deceptive videos. I also really like Phillip Bump's take (and not just because he was taking our picks on Twitter when he went to watch horse racing the other day)—Trump’s asymmetric warfare against the media continues to pay off. In short, Trump has no commitment to accuracy and never admits he was wrong, yet he ruthlessly blames people who do care about the truth for their every mistake.
CNN can’t be trusted because CNN admitted its mistake.This has been the pattern since day 1. Spicer trashed Zeke Miller, and by extension, the entire press corps, for at least a month because he didn't see the MLK bust in the Oval Office. It was behind a door, promptly corrected, and Miller personally spent hours trying to track the story around Twitter and correct the record. This went on at the same time Spicer gave blatantly false figures about the inauguration attendance, which he refused to admit or apologize for.
The network has no choice but to correct its story, of course, and to therefore open itself up to this criticism. But the media isn’t the only institution that has traditionally exposed itself to that problem. It used to be that the willingness to admit error was as important for politicians as for a news outlet: The public’s trust depended on it.
Trump and his allies do not consider themselves bound by a similar rule. After all, Trump didn’t require trust to win. Most Americans didn’t trust him before the election and most don’t trust him now; he managed to slip past Hillary Clinton in part because people didn’t trust her, either. So Trump simply ignored the unwritten obligation to honesty starting in the first minutes of his campaign — and it won him the White House. There’s no incentive for him to start being honest now.
And please enjoy the look on Sen. Murkowski's face and this gif of Sen. Yertle McConnell.
posted by zachlipton at 2:16 PM on June 27, 2017 [30 favorites]
Superb chart from Pew showing how global opinions of the US Presidency have plummeted since January, except in Israel and one other country, can you guess?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:17 PM on June 27, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:17 PM on June 27, 2017 [12 favorites]
President Donald Trump's administration is exploring hardening its approach toward Pakistan to crack down on Pakistan-based militants launching attacks in neighboring Afghanistan, two U.S. officials tell Reuters.
Coincidentally the Indian Prime Minister was just visiting the White House...
posted by PenDevil at 2:20 PM on June 27, 2017 [17 favorites]
Coincidentally the Indian Prime Minister was just visiting the White House...
posted by PenDevil at 2:20 PM on June 27, 2017 [17 favorites]
In short, Trump has no commitment to accuracy and never admits he was wrong, yet he ruthlessly blames people who do care about the truth for their every mistake.
Trump says that Russia didn't interfere in the election, while simultaneously blaming Obama for failing to stop Russia interfering in the election, which he calls "collusion" and demands an apology for. There's a great analogy here:
Trump says that Russia didn't interfere in the election, while simultaneously blaming Obama for failing to stop Russia interfering in the election, which he calls "collusion" and demands an apology for. There's a great analogy here:
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:22 PM on June 27, 2017 [37 favorites]
There is a personality type with a New York developer, one Donald learned from Fred when he carried his dad’s briefcase to acquisition meetings out in the boroughs and it goes like this:
Donald contracts for a service or good, or the acquisition of a piece of land for $1 million.
He then does not pay you
You ask Donald for your million dollars
Donald yells at you, basely, abusively, wholly out of character to the rich gentleman you broke bread with and made the deal with. He tells you that no, YOU owe him $200,000. Gives you no reason but screams how can you be such a son of a bitch to rip him off, how he’s going to sue you, expose you as a cheat, etc.
You’re off your pins, defensive. How could this be the guy who was so nice when he picked up the check at Per Se?
So, you compromise, because human nature avoids conflict, right? This is what he’s gaming you for because once you compromised, you’ve lost. You’ve inferred his premise that you have some complicity in the matter otherwise why would you compromise? You are on the defensive and will never get it back.
You offer $750,000 as a settlement, angry but want it over and done with. He then sues you. Why, because you’ve already committed yourself to the loss. You volunteered to surrender your position and what will stop you from keeping going?
I’ve seen many a New Yorker settle things like this with Trump people for 5-10 cents on the dollar and then happy, even eager to keep doing business with them. Why? Because he got in their heads with this aggressively counterintuitive behavior.
It's all about what's going on in his mind & has very little to do with the specifics of the situation or the players.
How to Spot A Sociopath
Look for a lack of shame. Most sociopaths can commit vile actions and not feel the least bit of remorse. Such actions may include physical abuse or public humiliation of others. If the person is a true sociopath, then he or she will feel no remorse about hurting others, lying, manipulating people, or just generally acting in an unacceptable way.
When a sociopath does something wrong, he or she is likely to accept none of the blame and to blame others instead.
Sociopaths are willing to hurt whomever whenever if it means that they will achieve their goals. This is why many sociopaths are highly successful people. However, keep in mind that although many people think sociopaths hunt people for sport, this is often not true. They just do as they please and do not care about how it affects others.
Predisent Literally-a-Sociopath
posted by petebest at 2:31 PM on June 27, 2017 [20 favorites]
How to Spot A Sociopath
Look for a lack of shame. Most sociopaths can commit vile actions and not feel the least bit of remorse. Such actions may include physical abuse or public humiliation of others. If the person is a true sociopath, then he or she will feel no remorse about hurting others, lying, manipulating people, or just generally acting in an unacceptable way.
When a sociopath does something wrong, he or she is likely to accept none of the blame and to blame others instead.
Sociopaths are willing to hurt whomever whenever if it means that they will achieve their goals. This is why many sociopaths are highly successful people. However, keep in mind that although many people think sociopaths hunt people for sport, this is often not true. They just do as they please and do not care about how it affects others.
Predisent Literally-a-Sociopath
posted by petebest at 2:31 PM on June 27, 2017 [20 favorites]
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Thank you very much. Prime Minister Modi, thank you for being here with us today. It’s a great honor to welcome the leader of the world’s largest democracy to the White House. I have always had a deep admiration for your country and for its people [except 14.2% of them whom I proposed banning from America].
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:37 PM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:37 PM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
kerf You said "I don't know how to work the military angle" when calling Sen. Sullivan about healthcare. Here are some ideas:
-- Nearly 1 in 10 vets have Medicaid as their "sole source of coverage for primary and specialty healthcare."
-- 459,500 veterans will lose Medicaid coverage.
-- Those vets are expected to turn to the VA under the GOP bill, stressing an already overwhelmed system (it currently has a $1B budget shortfall).
-- Paralyzed Veterans of America, VoteVets, Disabled American Veterans and AMVETS all oppose the bill.
This bill is TERRIBLE for vets.
posted by mcduff at 2:37 PM on June 27, 2017 [67 favorites]
-- Nearly 1 in 10 vets have Medicaid as their "sole source of coverage for primary and specialty healthcare."
-- 459,500 veterans will lose Medicaid coverage.
-- Those vets are expected to turn to the VA under the GOP bill, stressing an already overwhelmed system (it currently has a $1B budget shortfall).
-- Paralyzed Veterans of America, VoteVets, Disabled American Veterans and AMVETS all oppose the bill.
This bill is TERRIBLE for vets.
posted by mcduff at 2:37 PM on June 27, 2017 [67 favorites]
Investopedia?
Bloomberg?
Gruaniad?
MotherJones?
Cracked?
ProPublica?
CNN?
We're talking about the article titled "Trump, Khashoggi, & Germany’s Criminal Deutsche Bank," right? The one you referred to as the "Khasshogi/Deutsche Bank story"? Shouldn't the articles you're citing as collaboration include Khashoggi? Because I started with the CNN article, and it doesn't.
posted by diogenes at 2:47 PM on June 27, 2017
Bloomberg?
Gruaniad?
MotherJones?
Cracked?
ProPublica?
CNN?
We're talking about the article titled "Trump, Khashoggi, & Germany’s Criminal Deutsche Bank," right? The one you referred to as the "Khasshogi/Deutsche Bank story"? Shouldn't the articles you're citing as collaboration include Khashoggi? Because I started with the CNN article, and it doesn't.
posted by diogenes at 2:47 PM on June 27, 2017
Republican senators hit by calls from voters worried about Obamacare repeal bill
posted by tonycpsu at 2:48 PM on June 27, 2017 [22 favorites]
Republican senators’ offices say they’re getting a flood of calls from voters worried about the GOP Obamacare repeal bill, potentially further complicating Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell’s attempt to muscle the legislation through this week.Is the GOP bored of winning yet?
Chris Gallegos, communications director for Mississippi Sen. Thad Cochran, who has so far not staked out a hard position on the legislation, said calls from constituents since the bill's release last week have mainly been negative.
“Since last Thursday, the Cochran offices have received approximately 224 constituent calls against and two in favor of discussion draft of the healthcare bill,” Gallegos wrote in an email Monday.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:48 PM on June 27, 2017 [22 favorites]
224 calls is pathetically low for something this terrible. Now would be a great time to call your Senators and add to those totals (unless you're on the east coast, at which point it's probably not a great time, so set a reminder on your phone to call tomorrow morning).
posted by zachlipton at 2:50 PM on June 27, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 2:50 PM on June 27, 2017 [15 favorites]
But they have voice mail, right?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:51 PM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:51 PM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
I call every morning but I am certain that my trash senators are not tracking my calls. I mainly call at this point to annoy the brats answering the phone.
posted by winna at 2:54 PM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by winna at 2:54 PM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
Holy cow I just realized that the new prank call is complaining to congress. I feel twelve all over again!
posted by winna at 2:54 PM on June 27, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by winna at 2:54 PM on June 27, 2017 [32 favorites]
East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 PRESIDENT TRUMP: Thank you very much. Prime Minister Modi, thank you for being here with us today. It’s a great honor to welcome the leader of the world’s largest democracy to the White House. I have always had a deep admiration for your country and for its people [except 14.2% of them whom I proposed banning from America].
That won't bother Modi, he wants them banned from India too.
posted by sotonohito at 2:58 PM on June 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
That won't bother Modi, he wants them banned from India too.
posted by sotonohito at 2:58 PM on June 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
I'd be interested in knowing how many calls are normal for Cochran's offices -- obviously I'd like the raw count of calls to be even higher, but there may be only a fixed number of people answering, a fixed number of voicemails they can / are willing to sort through, etc. I think the 224:2 split says more than does the raw number of calls, which could be an all-time record at that office for all we know.
But yeah, everyone should continue to call -- it does seem to be working, but this thing isn't over until Trump tells us he never wanted health reform anyway and Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnnell are losers.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:58 PM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
But yeah, everyone should continue to call -- it does seem to be working, but this thing isn't over until Trump tells us he never wanted health reform anyway and Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnnell are losers.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:58 PM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
224 calls is pathetically low for something this terrible.
I feel that, but, if I was Cochran, I'd be less worried about how low 224 is, and more worried about how lopsided 224-to-2 is.
posted by box at 3:00 PM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
I feel that, but, if I was Cochran, I'd be less worried about how low 224 is, and more worried about how lopsided 224-to-2 is.
posted by box at 3:00 PM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
> “So, it’s not that people are getting pushed off a plan, it’s that people will choose not to buy something they don’t like or want.”
"The BCRA, in its majestic equality, permits the rich as well as the poor to choose to die of a preventable illness."
posted by tonycpsu at 3:04 PM on June 27, 2017 [12 favorites]
"The BCRA, in its majestic equality, permits the rich as well as the poor to choose to die of a preventable illness."
posted by tonycpsu at 3:04 PM on June 27, 2017 [12 favorites]
Mcduff - thanks so much. All that will be in my next call.
posted by kerf at 3:06 PM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by kerf at 3:06 PM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
I've got good news and bad....
Good news: Some GOP Senators are angry at the anti-Heller ads. That isn't the norm apparently-- to negatively campaign against a sitting Senator from your own party.
Bad news: Coming out of the WH meeting, Wicker (I don't know who that is) said they will get to 50 votes by the end of the week.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:10 PM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Good news: Some GOP Senators are angry at the anti-Heller ads. That isn't the norm apparently-- to negatively campaign against a sitting Senator from your own party.
Bad news: Coming out of the WH meeting, Wicker (I don't know who that is) said they will get to 50 votes by the end of the week.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:10 PM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
And now it's being reported that the anti-Heller ads are being pulled. I wonder if this topic was brought up in the meeting.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:14 PM on June 27, 2017
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:14 PM on June 27, 2017
Hypothetically, and I would never do this, but if people from out of state called these "tentative no" Republican senators using a Google number and gave a zip code within their constituency... Would they even know the calls are not legit?
I'm rather confused as to how this process is kept honest nowadays.
posted by greermahoney at 3:16 PM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm rather confused as to how this process is kept honest nowadays.
posted by greermahoney at 3:16 PM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
I heard about the vote being delayed while I was outside Senator Cory Gardner's Colorado Springs office, protesting the bill. There are still people in his office talking to his staffers about it, this many hours later. When I went up to ask about the Senator's response to the AMA opposing the bill, the staffer looked harried, which I think is how they ought to look, given how completely terrible, craven, immoral and heartless the bill is. Gardner is one of the 13 who was in the working group drafting it and he attended the meeting with the Koch brothers at the Broadmoor resort here in town this weekend. There is another protest event scheduled on Thursday.
posted by danielleh at 3:16 PM on June 27, 2017 [31 favorites]
posted by danielleh at 3:16 PM on June 27, 2017 [31 favorites]
Wicker (I don't know who that is)
Roger Wicker is the not particularly notable barnacle who took over Trent Lott's seat in the Senate. He's the sort of guy whose Wikipedia article includes "forced Amtrak to let passengers carry guns on trains" among his notable legislative achievements.
posted by Copronymus at 3:20 PM on June 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
Roger Wicker is the not particularly notable barnacle who took over Trent Lott's seat in the Senate. He's the sort of guy whose Wikipedia article includes "forced Amtrak to let passengers carry guns on trains" among his notable legislative achievements.
posted by Copronymus at 3:20 PM on June 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
The American Conservative [yes, really]: Tillerson and Mattis Cleaning Up Kushner’s Middle East Mess
Hypothetically, and I would never do this, but if people from out of state called these "tentative no" Republican senators using a Google number and gave a zip code within their constituency... Would they even know the calls are not legit?
Honestly, you're unlikely to be somehow "caught" doing this. But calls from out of state are a real problem, in that they can be and are used as an excuse for Senators to simply ignore all calls, and literally everybody who is asking people to call their reps is strongly discouraging people from doing this. If you want to be helpful, call your own reps, then get everyone you know to do the same.
posted by zachlipton at 3:20 PM on June 27, 2017 [42 favorites]
A close associate of the secretary of state says that Tillerson was not only “blind-sided by the Trump statement [about Qatar],” but “absolutely enraged that the White House and State Department weren’t on the same page.” Tillerson’s aides, I was told, were convinced that the true author of Trump’s statement was U.A.E. ambassador Yousef Al Otaiba, a close friend of Trump son-in-law Jared Kushner. “Rex put two-and-two together,” his close associate says, “and concluded that this absolutely vacuous kid was running a second foreign policy out of the White House family quarters. Otaiba weighed in with Jared and Jared weighed in with Trump. What a mess.” The Trump statement was nearly the last straw for Tillerson, this close associate explains: “Rex is just exhausted. He can’t get any of his appointments approved and is running around the world cleaning up after a president whose primary foreign policy adviser is a 31-year-old amateur.”AP: New president’s politicking raises ethics flags
Worse yet, at least from Tillerson’s point of view, a White House official explained the difference between the two statements by telling the press to ignore the secretary of state. “Tillerson may initially have had a view,” a White House official told the Washington Post, “then the president has his view, and obviously the president’s view prevails.”
Hypothetically, and I would never do this, but if people from out of state called these "tentative no" Republican senators using a Google number and gave a zip code within their constituency... Would they even know the calls are not legit?
Honestly, you're unlikely to be somehow "caught" doing this. But calls from out of state are a real problem, in that they can be and are used as an excuse for Senators to simply ignore all calls, and literally everybody who is asking people to call their reps is strongly discouraging people from doing this. If you want to be helpful, call your own reps, then get everyone you know to do the same.
posted by zachlipton at 3:20 PM on June 27, 2017 [42 favorites]
I'm rather confused as to how this process is kept honest nowadays.
If you don't actually care about what your constituents think, the honesty of the process is unimportant to you. Also, failing to police it ensures that you can claim "Most of these calls aren't even from my district" without fear of successful contradiction.
posted by Etrigan at 3:23 PM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
If you don't actually care about what your constituents think, the honesty of the process is unimportant to you. Also, failing to police it ensures that you can claim "Most of these calls aren't even from my district" without fear of successful contradiction.
posted by Etrigan at 3:23 PM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
TwoWordReview: "Jerry Moran (Kansas) came out against the bill as did Senators Capito and Portman after the vote got pulled. (Aside: didn't Portman write the damn thing?)"
Lindsey Graham said the bill either gets 50 votes or like 35 - nobody wants to be the last one to die for a mistake, as they say.
posted by Chrysostom at 3:25 PM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
Lindsey Graham said the bill either gets 50 votes or like 35 - nobody wants to be the last one to die for a mistake, as they say.
posted by Chrysostom at 3:25 PM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
All of that was what I was afraid of. It's the honor system, which generally gets ruined by whoever is willing to abuse it.
posted by greermahoney at 3:27 PM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by greermahoney at 3:27 PM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
He's already tweeting for the evening: "With ZERO Democrats to help, and a failed, expensive and dangerous ObamaCare as the Dems legacy, the Republican Senators are working hard!" [real]
posted by Barack Spinoza at 3:27 PM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Barack Spinoza at 3:27 PM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
"Dangerous Obamacare" LOL
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:30 PM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:30 PM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
“For seven years we have heard Republicans gloat about their vision of a healthcare bill,” Rep. Grijalva said. “Now that the Senate and House version are public, we come to see that the healthcare plan is merely a scheme to give the wealthy a huge tax break and never really about the health or well-being of our constituents.Grijalva. The man. The mustache. 2020.
“The Senate bill makes no improvements to the House Republican version that the public overwhelmingly disapproved of. Instead, it rips apart the protections and improvements the Affordable Care Act has made for individuals and their families during the past seven years. The so-called “Better Care Act” takes us back to the days of mass uninsurance, unaffordable coverage and denial of care. It charges elderly patients five times as much as younger patients. It cuts essential health coverage for women. It forces states and emergency rooms to absorb the disastrous impact of dismantling Medicaid, which provides coverage for nearly 69 million low-income individuals, seniors and those with disabilities across all congressional districts. For a party that sells itself as proponents of personal responsibility, it is ironic for Republicans to take away the preventative health care services that allows millions of families to make important decisions about their health.
posted by MrVisible at 3:32 PM on June 27, 2017 [64 favorites]
YOU DON'T NEED DEMOCRATS TO HELP, MR PRESIDENT. YOU CONTROL ALL THREE BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT.
(But, you know, they would if your team put forward a plan that actually helped people.)
posted by notyou at 3:37 PM on June 27, 2017 [13 favorites]
(But, you know, they would if your team put forward a plan that actually helped people.)
posted by notyou at 3:37 PM on June 27, 2017 [13 favorites]
a failed, expensive and dangerous ObamaCare
If you find yourself trapped between a female Obamacare and its larvae, back away slowly while facing the organism. Do not break eye contact with the Obamacare.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:44 PM on June 27, 2017 [18 favorites]
If you find yourself trapped between a female Obamacare and its larvae, back away slowly while facing the organism. Do not break eye contact with the Obamacare.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:44 PM on June 27, 2017 [18 favorites]
I call every morning but I am certain that my trash senators are not tracking my calls. I mainly call at this point to annoy the brats answering the phone.
Pretty sure this is 11234123% the case with Despicable Coward Pat Toomey. His staff have stopped even pretending to taking down either my name or my zip code, which they used to make a point of earlier in the month, before the anger about the BCRA started to grow.
I'm weighing whether I should put on my best corporate shill outfit on Thursday and see if I can deliver a constituent letter to a district office in person, so that I look someone in the eye about how their boss wants hundreds of thousands of Americans to die.
posted by joyceanmachine at 3:47 PM on June 27, 2017 [35 favorites]
Pretty sure this is 11234123% the case with Despicable Coward Pat Toomey. His staff have stopped even pretending to taking down either my name or my zip code, which they used to make a point of earlier in the month, before the anger about the BCRA started to grow.
I'm weighing whether I should put on my best corporate shill outfit on Thursday and see if I can deliver a constituent letter to a district office in person, so that I look someone in the eye about how their boss wants hundreds of thousands of Americans to die.
posted by joyceanmachine at 3:47 PM on June 27, 2017 [35 favorites]
The Trump statement was nearly the last straw for Tillerson, this close associate explains: “Rex is just exhausted. He can’t get any of his appointments approved and is running around the world cleaning up after a president whose primary foreign policy adviser is a 31-year-old amateur.”
Tillerson was set up for a fall from the get go. It's a slot Trump had to fill but State is all about policy, relationships, customs; things Trump has absolutely no use for because he wants the freedom to change course on a dime to punish or reward somebody or even whole countries if he feels like it. Anything that limits his absolute freedom to do whatever the hell he feels like has to be brought to heel. The very concept of a department dedicated to managing America's relationships with the world based on anything other than the latest grudge or graft that pops into Trump's head goes against Trump's entire history & personality. "Trump's policy" is a misnomer, the result of a category error. Trump has no policies. He has urges. Those are what steer his decisions.
posted by scalefree at 3:54 PM on June 27, 2017 [42 favorites]
Tillerson was set up for a fall from the get go. It's a slot Trump had to fill but State is all about policy, relationships, customs; things Trump has absolutely no use for because he wants the freedom to change course on a dime to punish or reward somebody or even whole countries if he feels like it. Anything that limits his absolute freedom to do whatever the hell he feels like has to be brought to heel. The very concept of a department dedicated to managing America's relationships with the world based on anything other than the latest grudge or graft that pops into Trump's head goes against Trump's entire history & personality. "Trump's policy" is a misnomer, the result of a category error. Trump has no policies. He has urges. Those are what steer his decisions.
posted by scalefree at 3:54 PM on June 27, 2017 [42 favorites]
My senators are David Perdue (he of "this bill is great and I'll tell you why after I read it") and Johnny Isakson (who is becoming increasingly disabled by Parkinson's disease but apparently won't let that give him any empathy for his constituents who are also ill but lack his federal health insurance). I fax them every day because they both tend to let their voicemail fill up. I do not think they care. Sen Perdue sometimes turns off his fax machine for fun.
posted by hydropsyche at 3:58 PM on June 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 3:58 PM on June 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
Oh, I'm not the only one who has had trouble getting faxes to Perdue sometimes!
I somehow don't think they care about the faxes. But I keep trying.
posted by litlnemo at 4:01 PM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
I somehow don't think they care about the faxes. But I keep trying.
posted by litlnemo at 4:01 PM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
The Case for Paying Less Attention to Donald Trump.
(Not necessarily about paying less attention to Trump, but definitely about paying more attention to all the local races. Trump is more a symptom than The Problem™ and state legislatures are going to write the story of the next decade of politics.)
posted by wildblueyonder at 4:08 PM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
(Not necessarily about paying less attention to Trump, but definitely about paying more attention to all the local races. Trump is more a symptom than The Problem™ and state legislatures are going to write the story of the next decade of politics.)
posted by wildblueyonder at 4:08 PM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
hydropsyche and litlnemo,
You might also consider emailing Perdue and Isakson's legislative staffers.
Isakson
- Will Dent, william_dent@isakson.senate.gov
- Jay Sulzmann, jay_sulzmann@isakson.senate.gov
Perdue
- John Eunice, john_eunice@perdue.senate.gov
(Don't live in GA and want to know who the healthcare legislative staffers are for your senators? Go here.)
posted by mcduff at 4:09 PM on June 27, 2017 [16 favorites]
You might also consider emailing Perdue and Isakson's legislative staffers.
Isakson
- Will Dent, william_dent@isakson.senate.gov
- Jay Sulzmann, jay_sulzmann@isakson.senate.gov
Perdue
- John Eunice, john_eunice@perdue.senate.gov
(Don't live in GA and want to know who the healthcare legislative staffers are for your senators? Go here.)
posted by mcduff at 4:09 PM on June 27, 2017 [16 favorites]
joyceanmachine: I'm weighing whether I should put on my best corporate shill outfit on Thursday and see if I can deliver a constituent letter to a district office in person, so that I look someone in the eye about how their boss wants hundreds of thousands of Americans to die.
Dooooo it!!! A hand-delivered letter is a very powerful statement. If you can get the interaction on video, even better--especially if the staffer is being snotty or can't hide that they know how utterly depraved this bill is.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 4:10 PM on June 27, 2017 [25 favorites]
Dooooo it!!! A hand-delivered letter is a very powerful statement. If you can get the interaction on video, even better--especially if the staffer is being snotty or can't hide that they know how utterly depraved this bill is.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 4:10 PM on June 27, 2017 [25 favorites]
@Jim Acosta: America 1st confirms it's pulled ad against Heller. Spox says they're "pleased to learn that...Heller has decided to come back to the table"
The Hill: 'McConnell on healthcare: 'It'll just take us a little bit longer
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:16 PM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
The Hill: 'McConnell on healthcare: 'It'll just take us a little bit longer
“We made good progress,” he told reporters after the roughly hour-long huddle in the East Room.I find it very interesting that the press was allowed in before the meeting started for a photo op but then they were dismissed by Trump when the meeting began. I guess he didn't want his ignorance, bribery attempts, and threats to be recorded.
"We're not quite there, he added. "But I think we’ve got a really good chance of getting there. It’ll just take us a little bit longer."
McConnell said Trump heard from several senators who are worried about two of the thorniest issues in the bill: changes to individual healthcare plans and language rolling back the Affordable Care Act’s expansion of Medicaid.
“Everyone around the table is interested in getting to yes — is interested in getting an outcome,” he continued. “Because we know the status quo is simply unacceptable, unsustainable and no action is just not an option.”
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:16 PM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
the look on Sen. Murkowski's face
During the Senate hearing on the Energy department budget there was an exchange between Sen. Murkowski and Sec. Perry. Where she got to make many faces. They were discussing the Office of Indian Energy programs and Murkowaki reminded Perry that she had a very big state, pointing out that Alaska is two and a half times the size of Texas. Perry answered that he had been given the t-shirt with a map of Texas depicted inside a map of Alaska for area comparison. Murkowski, smiled at this. But then Perry (exited about his knowledge of the ratio) added that the shirt had a slogan and it said, "size matters". All the Senators burst out laughing and Murkowski's smile turned to from grin to half wide eyed shock and half eyes darting around looking for help as she searched for some quick words to return decorum to the hearing and came up with, "I'm glad we've connected here".
It was awkward and funny all at the same time.
The most important thing to come out of the hearing though, is that by following the President's purposed budget, Energy will be underfunded to the point of not being able to fulfill certain legally mandated functions. And since Perry is deferring to the White House what his budget will be, it is the Senate that will need fight to fund and maintain what the Secretary won't. And the thing is Perry isn't doing this out of maliciousness. He likes everything he is learning and views the Department as doing vital work, so it is mainly a competency problem. He doesn't know enough to foresee the ramifications or really understand why certain programs exist.
posted by phoque at 4:21 PM on June 27, 2017 [13 favorites]
During the Senate hearing on the Energy department budget there was an exchange between Sen. Murkowski and Sec. Perry. Where she got to make many faces. They were discussing the Office of Indian Energy programs and Murkowaki reminded Perry that she had a very big state, pointing out that Alaska is two and a half times the size of Texas. Perry answered that he had been given the t-shirt with a map of Texas depicted inside a map of Alaska for area comparison. Murkowski, smiled at this. But then Perry (exited about his knowledge of the ratio) added that the shirt had a slogan and it said, "size matters". All the Senators burst out laughing and Murkowski's smile turned to from grin to half wide eyed shock and half eyes darting around looking for help as she searched for some quick words to return decorum to the hearing and came up with, "I'm glad we've connected here".
It was awkward and funny all at the same time.
The most important thing to come out of the hearing though, is that by following the President's purposed budget, Energy will be underfunded to the point of not being able to fulfill certain legally mandated functions. And since Perry is deferring to the White House what his budget will be, it is the Senate that will need fight to fund and maintain what the Secretary won't. And the thing is Perry isn't doing this out of maliciousness. He likes everything he is learning and views the Department as doing vital work, so it is mainly a competency problem. He doesn't know enough to foresee the ramifications or really understand why certain programs exist.
posted by phoque at 4:21 PM on June 27, 2017 [13 favorites]
Birds Rights Activist has its preferred version of the Time cover.
posted by emjaybee at 4:23 PM on June 27, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 4:23 PM on June 27, 2017 [22 favorites]
angrycat, I'm right there with you haunting Toomey. I've got a recurring item on my calendar that reminds me to go protest outside of his Philly office every Tuesday at 12:20 until he leaves office. He will have no peace until he no longer holds political office anywhere. (I also have an eye on his legislative staffers. Brad Grantz, Daniel Brandt and Theo Merkel better believe that they won't hear the end of me if they ever try to run for political office.)
posted by mcduff at 4:29 PM on June 27, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by mcduff at 4:29 PM on June 27, 2017 [10 favorites]
Someone heard Farenthold's request and produced a picture of DJT's fake Time cover picture hung on the wall at Mar-A-Lago near the entrance. Someone in the twitter feed pointed out you can scan the bar code in the picture and it leads to a Russian web site for clip art.
Also in that same picture, something framed from TV Guide, a Newsweek Cover (no one seems to know if it is fake or not) and a framed page from Variety which I suspect is the ratings from the Apprentice when it led in its time slot.
The Hill Time asks Trump Organization to remove fake cover from golf clubs
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:29 PM on June 27, 2017 [24 favorites]
Also in that same picture, something framed from TV Guide, a Newsweek Cover (no one seems to know if it is fake or not) and a framed page from Variety which I suspect is the ratings from the Apprentice when it led in its time slot.
The Hill Time asks Trump Organization to remove fake cover from golf clubs
The fake cover was reportedly hanging in at least two of Trump's golf clubs in the U.S.Why he didn't bother replacing the fakes with his real Time covers is a head-scratcher. You would think he would be very proud of the real ones. Or he could even pay an artist to paint him in a very flattering light-- he supposedly has so much money to play with.
Another one was reportedly displayed at Trump's resort in Ireland, but was recently moved from a restaurant area to a manager's office.
A cover that had also been displayed at the Trump’s Turnberry club in Scotland was removed a few weeks ago without explanation, the Post reported.
The fake cover was reportedly interspersed with real magazine covers in at least at one location.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:29 PM on June 27, 2017 [24 favorites]
Planned Parenthood works to shelve CA single payer plan
huge amounts of wtf
posted by indubitable at 4:35 PM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
huge amounts of wtf
posted by indubitable at 4:35 PM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
Mark your calendars
Politico: Roger Stone set to testify next month in House Russia probe
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:39 PM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Politico: Roger Stone set to testify next month in House Russia probe
The hearing will be closed, said Stone’s lawyer, Robert Buschel. He said his client had asked for a public hearing on Capitol Hill to address his communications last year with Moscow-linked hackers and WikiLeaks, which published personal emails stolen from Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta.Too bad :( it would have been entertaining. Although I suppose entertaining in the way watching a monkey throw feces is entertaining.
“We tried really hard,” Buschel said, adding that he was told by the GOP-led House panel, “They’re done with public.
Stone has been “cooperating” with Senate and House investigators who have demanded documents related to the 2016 campaign, Buschel said. He also expects a transcript of his appearance before the House panel to be made public. “I’m sure Roger will be happy to tell you whatever he says,” he said. “I don’t think there will be much mystery after that.”Oh well a transcript at least.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:39 PM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Hypothetically, and I would never do this, but if people from out of state called these "tentative no" Republican senators using a Google number and gave a zip code within their constituency... Would they even know the calls are not legit?
I'm rather confused as to how this process is kept honest nowadays.
posted by greermahoney at 5:16 PM on June 27 [−]
tbh, I don't think you even need a Google number. With cell phones, and long distance completely covered in many cell phone plans, I know many people who have phone numbers from all across the country that have kept their old cell numbers when they moved simply so all their contacts would most easily be able to get in contact with them. While it is not common to receive a call from a cell three states away, after you answer the call (or return call since it went to voice-mail because why is someone from Nevada calling?), it's not unheard of for people to think, "Oh, yeah. They just moved here." and add to contacts.
As to how this process is kept honest, I wonder what the Reps and Senators would think, if one were totally honest.
"Here is my zip code. I am not in your district. I am getting e-mails from the DNC and others requesting donations to back your opposition and I *will* be donating because your policies will negatively affect your constituents. BTW, these groups are matching. Sometimes up to 4x. You thought the GA-06 race was expensive? Get ready to spend a whole 'nother level of money if you vote yes on any bill that threatens your constituent's lives for a tax break that will be a rounding error for those who will receive it."
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 4:50 PM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm rather confused as to how this process is kept honest nowadays.
posted by greermahoney at 5:16 PM on June 27 [−]
tbh, I don't think you even need a Google number. With cell phones, and long distance completely covered in many cell phone plans, I know many people who have phone numbers from all across the country that have kept their old cell numbers when they moved simply so all their contacts would most easily be able to get in contact with them. While it is not common to receive a call from a cell three states away, after you answer the call (or return call since it went to voice-mail because why is someone from Nevada calling?), it's not unheard of for people to think, "Oh, yeah. They just moved here." and add to contacts.
As to how this process is kept honest, I wonder what the Reps and Senators would think, if one were totally honest.
"Here is my zip code. I am not in your district. I am getting e-mails from the DNC and others requesting donations to back your opposition and I *will* be donating because your policies will negatively affect your constituents. BTW, these groups are matching. Sometimes up to 4x. You thought the GA-06 race was expensive? Get ready to spend a whole 'nother level of money if you vote yes on any bill that threatens your constituent's lives for a tax break that will be a rounding error for those who will receive it."
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 4:50 PM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
@Kyle Griffin: AARP strongly opposes the Senate health bill, says it will monitor each each Senator's vote and report it to their 38 million members.
AARP Response to Congressional Budget Office Score of Senate Health Bill
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:50 PM on June 27, 2017 [62 favorites]
AARP Response to Congressional Budget Office Score of Senate Health Bill
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:50 PM on June 27, 2017 [62 favorites]
Roger Stone is about as reliable a witness as John McAfee.
posted by rhizome at 5:01 PM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 5:01 PM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
The Guardian Greg Gianforte got over $116,000 in donations after assaulting Guardian reporter
Over a hundred thousand dollars for punching a reporter in the face. Yet another thing to blame that jerk in the WH for. I've never seen nor heard of such outright hatred for reporters before.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:02 PM on June 27, 2017 [21 favorites]
Over a hundred thousand dollars for punching a reporter in the face. Yet another thing to blame that jerk in the WH for. I've never seen nor heard of such outright hatred for reporters before.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:02 PM on June 27, 2017 [21 favorites]
Slate's Donald Trump Election Brag Tracker:
posted by kirkaracha at 5:04 PM on June 27, 2017 [9 favorites]It has been
5 days and 22 hours
since Donald Trump bragged about his victory in the 2016 presidential election
Donors to Gianforte after he assaulted Jacobs included "Fred Smith, vice president of Trump-friendly media company Sinclair Broadcasting, science fiction writer Orson Scott Card, and Republican National Committee finance chair Steve Wynn."
posted by zachlipton at 5:05 PM on June 27, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 5:05 PM on June 27, 2017 [15 favorites]
To be fair, I got one of those custom covers of Time through Spencer Gifts mail order too. In the 70's.
posted by klarck at 5:06 PM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by klarck at 5:06 PM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
NY Times: As Trump’s Tactics Fall Short, Pence Takes Lead on Health Bill
But the Republican Senate leaders have made it known that they would much rather negotiate with Mr. Pence than the president, according to several White House and congressional officials. And some of the White House’s efforts have clearly been counterproductive.posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:07 PM on June 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
Mr. McConnell made clear his unhappiness to the White House after a “super PAC” aligned with Mr. Trump started an ad campaign against Senator Dean Heller, Republican of Nevada, when he said last week that he opposed the health care bill.
The majority leader called the White House chief of staff, Reince Priebus, to complain that the attacks were “beyond stupid,” according to two Republicans with knowledge of the tense exchange on Saturday.
Mr. McConnell, who has been toiling for weeks, mostly in private, to put together a measure that would satisfy hard-liners and moderates, told Mr. Priebus in his call that the assault by the group, America First, not only jeopardized the bill’s prospects but also imperiled Mr. Heller’s already difficult path to re-election.
Republican Senate leaders have made it known that they would much rather negotiate with Mr. Pence than the president
"Nobody knows the system better than me, which is why I alone can fix it."
posted by kirkaracha at 5:11 PM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
Paul Manafort finally got around to registering as a foreign agent
A consulting firm led by Paul Manafort, who chaired Donald Trump’s presidential campaign for several months last year, retroactively filed forms Tuesday showing that his firm received $17.1 million over two years from a political party that dominated Ukraine before its leader fled to Russia in 2014.posted by zachlipton at 5:16 PM on June 27, 2017 [17 favorites]
Manafort disclosed the total payments his firm received between 2012 and 2014 in a Foreign Agents Registration Act filing late Tuesday that was submitted to the U.S. Justice Department. The report makes Manafort the second former senior Trump adviser to acknowledge the need to disclose work for foreign interests.
Why are Senators and Representatives so twitchy about hearing from out-of-district voters when they're more than happy to take donations from anyone who's offering?
Money is speech, or so I'm told, seems like they should be carefully vetting where that $ is coming from to make sure there isn't any undue influence coming from outside their gerrymandered borders.
posted by 0xFCAF at 5:21 PM on June 27, 2017 [39 favorites]
Money is speech, or so I'm told, seems like they should be carefully vetting where that $ is coming from to make sure there isn't any undue influence coming from outside their gerrymandered borders.
posted by 0xFCAF at 5:21 PM on June 27, 2017 [39 favorites]
I really don't even know why the Republican senators sit down to talk with Trump about the bill at all - he clearly doesn't pay attention to what's in these things and never will, not a single senator really believes he's even baseline capable on policy, and he'll throw them under the bus for it whether it passes or not if he thinks it's making him more unpopular. And he doesn't have anything to offer them! He is already dragging Republicans down with him and making cakewalk races hard work. Probably it's just that he'd throw a tantrum if they didn't put on a show of coming to kiss the ring.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:24 PM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 5:24 PM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
Completely random, but did we hear about anything tech during "tech week"? (Let's keep Russian hacking, etc. out of that.) I didn't hear a darn thing.
Energy week is literally one better from where I sit in that they exclaimed we will have dominance. I mean literally one better in the sense that, while nonsense, they did talk about energy once this week.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 5:30 PM on June 27, 2017
Energy week is literally one better from where I sit in that they exclaimed we will have dominance. I mean literally one better in the sense that, while nonsense, they did talk about energy once this week.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 5:30 PM on June 27, 2017
Why are Senators and Representatives so twitchy about hearing from out-of-district voters when they're more than happy to take donations from anyone who's offering?
What I've been told by staffers from different Congresscritters is that receptiveness to out-of-district calls is "at the discretion" of the person you're writing to. What that sounds like to me is, "If you agree with the Congresscritter's position, they are less likely to toss your letter into the bin."
Some who are committee chairs or ranking members of committees that lack members from your state might give some weight to your contacts if you agree with them, but you really can't count on it. Complicating all that is the issue that has been noted above that when there's a deluge of calls from out of district, they can use it to justify ignore disagreement from their own constituents.
It's definitely really frustrating that out-of-district/state money is so readily acceptable to Congresscritters, especially if you have a whole bunch of it to throw around. I would love to see some campaign finance protections that requires elected officials only accepting money from people within their district or state.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 5:32 PM on June 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
What I've been told by staffers from different Congresscritters is that receptiveness to out-of-district calls is "at the discretion" of the person you're writing to. What that sounds like to me is, "If you agree with the Congresscritter's position, they are less likely to toss your letter into the bin."
Some who are committee chairs or ranking members of committees that lack members from your state might give some weight to your contacts if you agree with them, but you really can't count on it. Complicating all that is the issue that has been noted above that when there's a deluge of calls from out of district, they can use it to justify ignore disagreement from their own constituents.
It's definitely really frustrating that out-of-district/state money is so readily acceptable to Congresscritters, especially if you have a whole bunch of it to throw around. I would love to see some campaign finance protections that requires elected officials only accepting money from people within their district or state.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 5:32 PM on June 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
Josh Marshall, Talking Points Memo: Good Journalism Requires Clarity, Accuracy
Pretending that both parties just have very different approaches to solving a commonly agreed upon problem is really just a lie. It’s not true. One side is looking for ways to increase the number of people who have real health insurance and thus reasonable access to health care and the other is trying to get the government out of the health care provision business with the inevitable result that the opposite will be the case.
If you’re not clear on this fundamentally point, the whole thing does get really confusing. How can it be that both sides flatly refuse to work together at all? As [Dana Bash of CNN] puts it, “Why can’t these parties work together on something that is such a huge part of the economy, that is something that is so vital to everybody’s lives, all of their constituents’ lives, [it’s] mind boggling.”
If you had an old building and one group wanted to refurbish and preserve it and the other wanted to tear it down, it wouldn’t surprise you that the two groups couldn’t work together on a solution. It’s an either/or. You’re trying to do two fundamentally opposite things, diametrically opposed. There’s no basis for cooperation or compromise because the fundamental goal is different. This entire health care debate has essentially been the same. Only the coverage has rarely captured that. That’s a big failure. It also explains why people get confused and even fed up.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:32 PM on June 27, 2017 [59 favorites]
Pretending that both parties just have very different approaches to solving a commonly agreed upon problem is really just a lie. It’s not true. One side is looking for ways to increase the number of people who have real health insurance and thus reasonable access to health care and the other is trying to get the government out of the health care provision business with the inevitable result that the opposite will be the case.
If you’re not clear on this fundamentally point, the whole thing does get really confusing. How can it be that both sides flatly refuse to work together at all? As [Dana Bash of CNN] puts it, “Why can’t these parties work together on something that is such a huge part of the economy, that is something that is so vital to everybody’s lives, all of their constituents’ lives, [it’s] mind boggling.”
If you had an old building and one group wanted to refurbish and preserve it and the other wanted to tear it down, it wouldn’t surprise you that the two groups couldn’t work together on a solution. It’s an either/or. You’re trying to do two fundamentally opposite things, diametrically opposed. There’s no basis for cooperation or compromise because the fundamental goal is different. This entire health care debate has essentially been the same. Only the coverage has rarely captured that. That’s a big failure. It also explains why people get confused and even fed up.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:32 PM on June 27, 2017 [59 favorites]
The Trump statement was nearly the last straw for Tillerson, this close associate explains: “Rex is just exhausted. He can’t get any of his appointments approved and is running around the world cleaning up after a president whose primary foreign policy adviser is a 31-year-old amateur.”
Sounds awful, Rex. You should totally quit.
posted by phearlez at 5:34 PM on June 27, 2017 [33 favorites]
Sounds awful, Rex. You should totally quit.
posted by phearlez at 5:34 PM on June 27, 2017 [33 favorites]
klarck: "To be fair, I got one of those custom covers of Time through Spencer Gifts mail order too. In the 70's."
"BART NAMED WORLD'S GREATEST SEX MACHINE"
posted by Chrysostom at 5:37 PM on June 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
"BART NAMED WORLD'S GREATEST SEX MACHINE"
posted by Chrysostom at 5:37 PM on June 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
"Rex is just exhausted. He can’t get any of his appointments approved and is running around the world cleaning up after a president whose primary foreign policy adviser is a 31-year-old amateur."
Imagine a guy who gets stung by jellyfish all day. Maybe he has to pet scorpions. Maybe he has to eat bees. These are not good jobs! But if you take a job like that, do you get to complain about it?
posted by 0xFCAF at 5:46 PM on June 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
Imagine a guy who gets stung by jellyfish all day. Maybe he has to pet scorpions. Maybe he has to eat bees. These are not good jobs! But if you take a job like that, do you get to complain about it?
posted by 0xFCAF at 5:46 PM on June 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
“Oath Keepers seek 'warrior class' in North Carolina,” Jordan Green, Scalawag, 25 June 2017
posted by ob1quixote at 5:52 PM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by ob1quixote at 5:52 PM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
a non mouse, a cow herd: "Completely random, but did we hear about anything tech during "tech week"? (Let's keep Russian hacking, etc. out of that.) I didn't hear a darn thing."
It's just paling in comparison to the brilliance of Infrastructure Week.
posted by Rhaomi at 6:00 PM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's just paling in comparison to the brilliance of Infrastructure Week.
posted by Rhaomi at 6:00 PM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish: "I once knew a man named Thomas Thomas. Some people make weird naming decisions."
I knew a guy in college who was named Michael Hunt. And yes, he went by Mike.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:02 PM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
I knew a guy in college who was named Michael Hunt. And yes, he went by Mike.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:02 PM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
Why are Senators and Representatives so twitchy about hearing from out-of-district voters when they're more than happy to take donations from anyone who's offering?
I wish there was such a thing as an at-large Representative / Senator. Where I live, I have no Democratic representation at any level. It'd be nice if the Democrats had some congressperson volunteer to be the designated contact for Democrats in red states, and then I'd have an congressional office I could call where they'd at least pretend to listen to me, and would agree with me that the terrible thing is terrible. I know the value of that would be basically at the level of warm fuzzies without much larger impact, but still would be lovely.
posted by honestcoyote at 6:04 PM on June 27, 2017 [13 favorites]
I wish there was such a thing as an at-large Representative / Senator. Where I live, I have no Democratic representation at any level. It'd be nice if the Democrats had some congressperson volunteer to be the designated contact for Democrats in red states, and then I'd have an congressional office I could call where they'd at least pretend to listen to me, and would agree with me that the terrible thing is terrible. I know the value of that would be basically at the level of warm fuzzies without much larger impact, but still would be lovely.
posted by honestcoyote at 6:04 PM on June 27, 2017 [13 favorites]
There's a bill that's been introduced to move to multi-member constituencies.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:26 PM on June 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 6:26 PM on June 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
I have definitely called members of Congress for other states (I'm in California), especially when they're on committees that affect important bills. I recently called Orrin Hatch, head of the Senate Finance Committee, and Lamar Alexander, head of the Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions committee, and asked them to commit to holding full public hearings before permitting a vote on the health care bill. In a few cases, no one asked for my ZIP code, but when a staffer did ask, I gave my California ZIP code and then said "obviously I'm not a resident of the Senator's state, but as chair of the committee he does represent me and all Americans in this matter." (The photo of Sen. Hatch on the Finance Committee membership page says "Orrin Hatch is fighting to lower taxes, strengthen Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security, and open markets to American products." so I made a point of saying "the Finance Committee page says that Sen. Hatch is fighting to strengthen Medicaid so I'd especially like to make sure the hearings fully explore the effects of the new bill on Medicaid.")
I posted an AskMe about calling officials outside your district and have continued to ask people from Indivisible and other folks in the know. This Q&A with a staffer for Kamala Harris (scroll to the bottom) says "We encourage you to get in touch not just with your Members of Congress in CA, but across the country. Make sure that you are reaching out to ALL the members: their decisions impact you, even if you don’t live in their districts." What I've mostly heard is that you absolutely cannot RELY on members of Congress outside your district to care about your call ... but they MIGHT. So the strategy I'm trying is to mostly call my own MoCs first, even though I know they're already planning to vote the way I want (and, as I've said before, I also try to say thank you, but mostly via fax to avoid clogging their phone lines); but if I can wrangle a few extra minutes of time, I also try to call other states. I'm honest about where I live if asked, but particularly if they're on a committee, their vote affects my life, and often the two minutes it'll take to call Orrin Hatch's office seems worth the gamble that it MIGHT make a difference.
posted by kristi at 6:32 PM on June 27, 2017 [24 favorites]
I posted an AskMe about calling officials outside your district and have continued to ask people from Indivisible and other folks in the know. This Q&A with a staffer for Kamala Harris (scroll to the bottom) says "We encourage you to get in touch not just with your Members of Congress in CA, but across the country. Make sure that you are reaching out to ALL the members: their decisions impact you, even if you don’t live in their districts." What I've mostly heard is that you absolutely cannot RELY on members of Congress outside your district to care about your call ... but they MIGHT. So the strategy I'm trying is to mostly call my own MoCs first, even though I know they're already planning to vote the way I want (and, as I've said before, I also try to say thank you, but mostly via fax to avoid clogging their phone lines); but if I can wrangle a few extra minutes of time, I also try to call other states. I'm honest about where I live if asked, but particularly if they're on a committee, their vote affects my life, and often the two minutes it'll take to call Orrin Hatch's office seems worth the gamble that it MIGHT make a difference.
posted by kristi at 6:32 PM on June 27, 2017 [24 favorites]
It'd be nice if the Democrats had some congressperson volunteer to be the designated contact for Democrats in red states, and then I'd have an congressional office I could call where they'd at least pretend to listen to me, and would agree with me that the terrible thing is terrible.
I agree and I think there would be value to the party and any eventual candidate to have "the pulse of the district" so to speak.
I'd probably call to brag about the calls I've made to my GOP rep. Also so they would have the same info about my concerns as my GOP rep but having a sympathetic ear to listen to me brag about it and encourage me to keep it up has a lot of appeal. Some people would probably want to get information about what else they can do and could step into some other more organized form of action or campaigning or something.
That would also be an easy apparatus to transition into a home office should a democrat win that district.
I work for a bank and I've worked there in a lot of capacities and I have seen a lot of names. It's all confidential so I can't share but like...I've seen some names man.
I also get a kick out of the common seeming names that turn out to be rare and the unique seeming names that turn out to be common. #namesderail2017
posted by VTX at 6:57 PM on June 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
I agree and I think there would be value to the party and any eventual candidate to have "the pulse of the district" so to speak.
I'd probably call to brag about the calls I've made to my GOP rep. Also so they would have the same info about my concerns as my GOP rep but having a sympathetic ear to listen to me brag about it and encourage me to keep it up has a lot of appeal. Some people would probably want to get information about what else they can do and could step into some other more organized form of action or campaigning or something.
That would also be an easy apparatus to transition into a home office should a democrat win that district.
I work for a bank and I've worked there in a lot of capacities and I have seen a lot of names. It's all confidential so I can't share but like...I've seen some names man.
I also get a kick out of the common seeming names that turn out to be rare and the unique seeming names that turn out to be common. #namesderail2017
posted by VTX at 6:57 PM on June 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
I have proposed this elsewhere in the past, but I really would like to see a MOC trade where y'all in CA or MA or wherever trade with those of us in red states for a while. You get to feel like your calls are really pushing for something and we get to talk to someone sympathetic for a change.
posted by threeturtles at 6:59 PM on June 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by threeturtles at 6:59 PM on June 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
That is to say if anyone would like to call Ted Cruz or John Cornyn and have the lovely experience of feeling like you're banging your head against a brick wall, I will give you my info to use. Sometimes Cruz's staff even argues back nastily. My house rep blocks his constituents on social media when they disagree with him. Fun times.
posted by threeturtles at 7:02 PM on June 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by threeturtles at 7:02 PM on June 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
The Democratic adopt a district campaigns a few weeks back seemed like a really fantastic idea to me.
Oh, your Republican rep is trying to kill you? Here, let a Democrat from one or two districts over hear your concerns and explain the alternatives where you get to keep healthcare and, you know, keep living.
But doing that on a wide scale is probably beyond the Democratic party's ability to do anything competently.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:03 PM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Oh, your Republican rep is trying to kill you? Here, let a Democrat from one or two districts over hear your concerns and explain the alternatives where you get to keep healthcare and, you know, keep living.
But doing that on a wide scale is probably beyond the Democratic party's ability to do anything competently.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:03 PM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Could we have "Shadow Reps" somehow? Maybe a Democratic staffer for each district which has a Republican rep, who takes calls from voters in that district?
They could report to the local party and to other elected Democratic reps what they are hearing, and also help Democratic candidates better understand the concerns of that district prior to the next election.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:06 PM on June 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
They could report to the local party and to other elected Democratic reps what they are hearing, and also help Democratic candidates better understand the concerns of that district prior to the next election.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:06 PM on June 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
I got to go to a town hall with Keith Ellison, who "adopted" my Republican district last recess. It was great!
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:07 PM on June 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:07 PM on June 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
Paul Manafort finally got around to registering as a foreign agent
Circling back a bit to this, one of the reasons some people think Flynn is now cooperating with the FBI/Mueller probe is his registration as a foreign agent. Usually one of the conditions of any deal is curing outstanding misdeeds...like illegal foreign lobbying. Maybe Flynn was flipped, maybe not, but if he was a good signal for the turning point would be his belated admission of foreign lobbying...and now Manafort has just made the same belated admissions seemingly out of nowhere.
To steal an overused and self-indulgent twitter catchphrase, tick-tick. I hope.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:30 PM on June 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
Circling back a bit to this, one of the reasons some people think Flynn is now cooperating with the FBI/Mueller probe is his registration as a foreign agent. Usually one of the conditions of any deal is curing outstanding misdeeds...like illegal foreign lobbying. Maybe Flynn was flipped, maybe not, but if he was a good signal for the turning point would be his belated admission of foreign lobbying...and now Manafort has just made the same belated admissions seemingly out of nowhere.
To steal an overused and self-indulgent twitter catchphrase, tick-tick. I hope.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:30 PM on June 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
We're talking about the article titled "Trump, Khashoggi, & Germany’s Criminal Deutsche Bank," right? The one you referred to as the "Khasshogi/Deutsche Bank story"? Shouldn't the articles you're citing as collaboration include Khashoggi? Because I started with the CNN article, and it doesn't.
I'm citing them as reference that Trump has his golden throne on the line for the Deutsche Bank loan, the latest and possibly final of the empire-salvaging loans that all previously ended in six bankruptcies' worth of only his shareholders eating dirt. That would be powerful motive to pull out the stops and do whatever it took to be POTUS or at least time to set up a Trump TV grift which he could then expire in the middle of, leaving his hellspawn holding the bags.
Khashoggi, and Trump's friendship with him, are a separate but related theme which dovetails eerily well with that of his mansion-razing contract killer (accused) pal Rybolovlev.
I haven't searched for links to those two parts, but the last part of the tale is Deutsche Bank being organized for the ease and comfort of high-dolla fraud. (And thats the last house on the block for Trump - ironic!) The last few years would seem to be replete with articles to that effect if not the direct statement - or - we could trade it all in for what's behind door number Mueller.
posted by petebest at 7:36 PM on June 27, 2017
I'm citing them as reference that Trump has his golden throne on the line for the Deutsche Bank loan, the latest and possibly final of the empire-salvaging loans that all previously ended in six bankruptcies' worth of only his shareholders eating dirt. That would be powerful motive to pull out the stops and do whatever it took to be POTUS or at least time to set up a Trump TV grift which he could then expire in the middle of, leaving his hellspawn holding the bags.
Khashoggi, and Trump's friendship with him, are a separate but related theme which dovetails eerily well with that of his mansion-razing contract killer (accused) pal Rybolovlev.
I haven't searched for links to those two parts, but the last part of the tale is Deutsche Bank being organized for the ease and comfort of high-dolla fraud. (And thats the last house on the block for Trump - ironic!) The last few years would seem to be replete with articles to that effect if not the direct statement - or - we could trade it all in for what's behind door number Mueller.
posted by petebest at 7:36 PM on June 27, 2017
“Oath Keepers seek 'warrior class' in North Carolina,” Jordan Green, Scalawag, 25 June 2017
Why is it the twits never care about defending the First Amendment, or the Due Process Clause?
Or the Thirteenth Amendment?
posted by sebastienbailard at 7:37 PM on June 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
Why is it the twits never care about defending the First Amendment, or the Due Process Clause?
Or the Thirteenth Amendment?
posted by sebastienbailard at 7:37 PM on June 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
I knew a guy in college who was named Michael Hunt. And yes, he went by Mike.
Around the turn of the century, a guy named named Mike Hunt ran for sheriff of Aiken, SC. All his campaign signs enjoined voters to "Vote for Mike Hunt!" And they did. He is still (AFAIK) sheriff.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:38 PM on June 27, 2017
Around the turn of the century, a guy named named Mike Hunt ran for sheriff of Aiken, SC. All his campaign signs enjoined voters to "Vote for Mike Hunt!" And they did. He is still (AFAIK) sheriff.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:38 PM on June 27, 2017
Somebody's got a case of the Grumpies. The Resistance Resists Too Often, Paul Ryan Says In Defending GOP'S Health Care Plan.
posted by scalefree at 7:40 PM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 7:40 PM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
NYT: On Senate Health Bill, Trump Falters in the Closer’s Role
posted by zachlipton at 7:41 PM on June 27, 2017 [37 favorites]
A senator who supports the bill left the meeting at the White House with a sense that the president did not have a grasp of some basic elements of the Senate plan — and seemed especially confused when a moderate Republican complained that opponents of the bill would cast it as a massive tax break for the wealthy, according to an aide who received a detailed readout of the exchange.I mean, his confusion has been obvious from literally every statement he's made about health care since he rode down that damn escalator, so I'm not sure why we need an anonymous aide to tell us the President is clueless, but thanks.
Mr. Trump said he planned to tackle tax reform later, ignoring the repeal’s tax implications, the staff member added.
posted by zachlipton at 7:41 PM on June 27, 2017 [37 favorites]
T.D. Strange: "Circling back a bit to this, one of the reasons some people think Flynn is now cooperating with the FBI/Mueller probe is his registration as a foreign agent."
I think I read somewhere that there's no real upside to retroactively registering as a foreign agent since that's essentially admitting to a violation of FARA, although to be fair, it's rarely been successfully prosecuted. It'd be far easier to simply maintain a "I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, there's no way you can prove anything" kind of stance, especially since penalties are so rare. So, people are suspecting that the only real reason you'd cop to this is because someone is making you do it, e.g.: as part of a deal.
posted by mhum at 7:42 PM on June 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
I think I read somewhere that there's no real upside to retroactively registering as a foreign agent since that's essentially admitting to a violation of FARA, although to be fair, it's rarely been successfully prosecuted. It'd be far easier to simply maintain a "I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, there's no way you can prove anything" kind of stance, especially since penalties are so rare. So, people are suspecting that the only real reason you'd cop to this is because someone is making you do it, e.g.: as part of a deal.
posted by mhum at 7:42 PM on June 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
Mr. McConnell, who has been toiling for weeks, mostly in private, to put together a measure
mostly in private
what
posted by ctmf at 8:08 PM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
mostly in private
what
posted by ctmf at 8:08 PM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Why is it the twits never care about defending the First Amendment, or the Due Process Clause?
Because They aren't fun to play with and they don't go BOOM.
posted by Sophie1 at 8:26 PM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Because They aren't fun to play with and they don't go BOOM.
posted by Sophie1 at 8:26 PM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Mitch McConnell toiling in anyone's private is the only thing as obscene as his DeathCare bill.
posted by riverlife at 8:27 PM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by riverlife at 8:27 PM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
I knew a guy in college who was named Michael Hunt. And yes, he went by Mike.
Around the turn of the century, a guy named named Mike Hunt ran for sheriff of Aiken, SC. All his campaign signs enjoined voters to "Vote for Mike Hunt!" And they did. He is still (AFAIK) sheriff.
He is, and goes by Michael these days.
posted by TedW at 8:28 PM on June 27, 2017
Around the turn of the century, a guy named named Mike Hunt ran for sheriff of Aiken, SC. All his campaign signs enjoined voters to "Vote for Mike Hunt!" And they did. He is still (AFAIK) sheriff.
He is, and goes by Michael these days.
posted by TedW at 8:28 PM on June 27, 2017
Representative Gerry Connolly (D-VA) parodies Trump's fake Time magazine cover
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:28 PM on June 27, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:28 PM on June 27, 2017 [19 favorites]
Why is it the twits never care about defending the First Amendment, or the Due Process Clause?
They also ignore the words "well regulated" that appear at the beginning of the second amendment.
posted by TedW at 8:29 PM on June 27, 2017 [13 favorites]
They also ignore the words "well regulated" that appear at the beginning of the second amendment.
posted by TedW at 8:29 PM on June 27, 2017 [13 favorites]
ELECTIONS NEWS
** Iowa House 22 special -- The GOP appears to have held this seat:
** NV sen (2018) -- A PPP poll has Heller trailing possible Dem opponent Rep. Jacky Rosen 42-41, and pulling a -9 approval rating.
** Odds & ends:
** Iowa House 22 special -- The GOP appears to have held this seat:
GOP 44(I say appears because Pottawattamie County's web presence leaves something to be desired). If you recall, the Dem was a write-in candidate due to a registration screwup. Between that, and the fact that this was a 65-30 Trump district, the result is not a surprise. No one had run at all for the Dems in the last three cycles, so it's a start.
Independent (rival GOP candidate) 33
Dem 19
** NV sen (2018) -- A PPP poll has Heller trailing possible Dem opponent Rep. Jacky Rosen 42-41, and pulling a -9 approval rating.
** Odds & ends:
-- U of Texas poll finds Trump favorability underwater in *Texas*.posted by Chrysostom at 8:31 PM on June 27, 2017 [36 favorites]
-- An attempt by the NC legislature to gerrymander state judicial districts has been shelved until next session. NC gerrymanders of both state and federal legislative districts have been found illegal.
-- The Seattle city council has passed a measure requiring landlords to provide new tenants with voter registration info.
-- New Pew survey finds single payer support at 33%, and surging among Dems.
-- Nate Cohn: The taxonomy of GOP-held Dem targets for 2018.
I Don’t Know How To Explain To You That You Should Care About Other People
I've heard a phrase, it's been attributed to many a politician, that says "liberals tear down walls that shouldn't be there, conservatives build walls that are foolish not to have". I do believe in this. I think that a bean counter needs to be there to make sure moonshots are realistic and we're not plunging off the other side of the cliff. But the conduct lately extends past a moderating force tempering the crazier notions of liberalism. We need a healthy opposition in politics or we're going to have a disaster.
I still don't know what to do about it besides send money and call people when push comes to shove. It still feels helpless watching people die as this shit goes on.
posted by Talez at 8:32 PM on June 27, 2017 [54 favorites]
But if making sure your fellow citizens can afford to eat, get an education, and go to the doctor isn’t enough of a reason to fund those things, I have nothing left to say to you.This a problem I have reconciling within myself when I try to not dehumanize the "other side". I sometimes fail at it. I really don't want to do it. I catch myself doing it from time to time. It gets harder every day though. Every time another penny drops and I find myself thinking "who the fuck keeps sending these assholes back? how can politics as a team sport allow for this kind of cruelty to be on the national stage".
I can’t debate someone into caring about what happens to their fellow human beings. The fact that such detached cruelty is so normalized in a certain party’s political discourse is at once infuriating and terrifying.
The “I’ve got mine, so screw you,” attitude has been oozing from the American right wing for decades, but this gleeful exuberance in pushing legislation that will immediately hurt the most vulnerable among us is chilling.
I've heard a phrase, it's been attributed to many a politician, that says "liberals tear down walls that shouldn't be there, conservatives build walls that are foolish not to have". I do believe in this. I think that a bean counter needs to be there to make sure moonshots are realistic and we're not plunging off the other side of the cliff. But the conduct lately extends past a moderating force tempering the crazier notions of liberalism. We need a healthy opposition in politics or we're going to have a disaster.
I still don't know what to do about it besides send money and call people when push comes to shove. It still feels helpless watching people die as this shit goes on.
posted by Talez at 8:32 PM on June 27, 2017 [54 favorites]
Politico: "Top GOP officials and senators say White House chaos and impulsiveness are crippling efforts to expand the Republican Senate majority in 2018, unraveling long-laid plans and needlessly jeopardizing incumbents."
reporters: Alex Isenstadt and Josh Dawsey
posted by Chrysostom at 8:34 PM on June 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
reporters: Alex Isenstadt and Josh Dawsey
posted by Chrysostom at 8:34 PM on June 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
I've started compiling a list of groups that have expressed their opposition or concern over the Senate's Better Care Reconciliation Act, starting with mostly healthcare and patient advocacy groups. If anyone know of someone working on something similar or if you have something to add, please send me a memail.
I've run out of time for now, but have it pasted into my profile if anyone would find it helpful. And I'd love suggestions for a better place for this to live on the internet.
posted by peeedro at 8:35 PM on June 27, 2017 [12 favorites]
I've run out of time for now, but have it pasted into my profile if anyone would find it helpful. And I'd love suggestions for a better place for this to live on the internet.
posted by peeedro at 8:35 PM on June 27, 2017 [12 favorites]
"Top GOP officials and senators say White House chaos and impulsiveness are crippling efforts to expand the Republican Senate majority in 2018, unraveling long-laid plans and needlessly jeopardizing incumbents."
Boo fucking hoo. You fucks lined up behind him and endorsed all of it to win. Enjoy.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:39 PM on June 27, 2017 [62 favorites]
Boo fucking hoo. You fucks lined up behind him and endorsed all of it to win. Enjoy.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:39 PM on June 27, 2017 [62 favorites]
Associated Press: The Trump administration’s top environmental official met privately with the chief executive of Dow Chemical shortly before reversing his agency’s push to ban a widely used pesticide after health studies showed it can harm children’s brains, according to records obtained by The Associated Press.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:48 PM on June 27, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:48 PM on June 27, 2017 [23 favorites]
Top GOP officials and senators say White House chaos and impulsiveness are crippling efforts to expand the Republican Senate majority in 2018, unraveling long-laid plans and needlessly jeopardizing incumbents
I've found a copy of the long-laid plans:
1) Investigate the President's emails
2) Investigate what the President did in Benghazi
3) Weekly votes to repeal Obamacare, which can be absurdly draconian because they will inevitably be vetoed by the President
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:52 PM on June 27, 2017 [43 favorites]
I've found a copy of the long-laid plans:
1) Investigate the President's emails
2) Investigate what the President did in Benghazi
3) Weekly votes to repeal Obamacare, which can be absurdly draconian because they will inevitably be vetoed by the President
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:52 PM on June 27, 2017 [43 favorites]
Ironically the thing most likely to kill the GOP is their awful healthcare bill, which is a thing entirely of their own devising without any help from Trump.
/will still call it Trumpcare anyway.
posted by Artw at 8:53 PM on June 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
/will still call it Trumpcare anyway.
posted by Artw at 8:53 PM on June 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
> Associated Press: The Trump administration’s top environmental official met privately with the chief executive of Dow Chemical shortly before reversing his agency’s push to ban a widely used pesticide after health studies showed it can harm children’s brains, according to records obtained by The Associated Press.
Well, of course he did, you don't just read off your Cayman Island bank account numbers over the phone.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:53 PM on June 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
Well, of course he did, you don't just read off your Cayman Island bank account numbers over the phone.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:53 PM on June 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
Representative Gerry Connolly (D-VA)
I don't even play Overwatch and all I could think of was Nancy Pelosi (Widowmaker) and Donald Trump (Hanzo main).
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:04 PM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
I don't even play Overwatch and all I could think of was Nancy Pelosi (Widowmaker) and Donald Trump (Hanzo main).
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:04 PM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
Donald Trump (Hanzo main).
No. He's the Genji main that keeps spamming "I need healing".
posted by Talez at 9:07 PM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
No. He's the Genji main that keeps spamming "I need healing".
posted by Talez at 9:07 PM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
Lalex - what?? Do we now get to tax people outside of the US? Does he think that's a thing that happens? Does he not understand there is no world tax?
Every day I have more questions that just destroy the brain cells my drinking left behind.
posted by greermahoney at 9:20 PM on June 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
Every day I have more questions that just destroy the brain cells my drinking left behind.
posted by greermahoney at 9:20 PM on June 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
"When Democrats say they will only tax the top one percent.
Remember, to be in top one percent of world income earners-- $32,400.
Surprise"
Wow, I've heard better-reasoned arguments from kindergarteners.
"I'm sorry, it says right here that the answer is Moops."
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:21 PM on June 27, 2017 [24 favorites]
Remember, to be in top one percent of world income earners-- $32,400.
Surprise"
Wow, I've heard better-reasoned arguments from kindergarteners.
"I'm sorry, it says right here that the answer is Moops."
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:21 PM on June 27, 2017 [24 favorites]
"When Grover Norquist says cutting taxes creates growth, the circumference of Saturn is 235,298 miles."
I think all of those vape chemicals are messing with Grover's brain.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:23 PM on June 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
I think all of those vape chemicals are messing with Grover's brain.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:23 PM on June 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
"When Democrats say they will only tax the top one percent.
Remember, to be in top one percent of world income earners-- $32,400.
Surprise"
Is that in US$ or Nation of Strawman$?
posted by chaoticgood at 9:23 PM on June 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
the Trump administration’s top environmental official met privately with the chief executive of Dow Chemical shortly before reversing his agency’s push to ban a widely used pesticide after health studies showed it can harm children’s brains, according to records obtained by The Associated Press.
In descending order of importance: obeying the CEO of DOW > Loretta Lynch investigation > casual threats of war over twitter to distract from treason > correct number of blueberries in Mar-A-Lago muffins > our children's brains
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:26 PM on June 27, 2017 [12 favorites]
In descending order of importance: obeying the CEO of DOW > Loretta Lynch investigation > casual threats of war over twitter to distract from treason > correct number of blueberries in Mar-A-Lago muffins > our children's brains
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:26 PM on June 27, 2017 [12 favorites]
Allowing American children's brains to form could seriously jeopardize Eric Trump's election chances
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:35 PM on June 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:35 PM on June 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
Grover Norquist's entire existence, like Paul Ryan's and every other Republican's, is solely based on cutting taxes for the top x% of earners. They want the rich to pay less taxes, preferably zero taxes. All arguments start from that premise. Period. There's nothing further.
If there was a God-emperor who personally earned 99% of all money in the entire world, let's just call him "Donald Trump", Republicans led by Norquist would Still invent reasons why that one person deserved a tax cut at the expense of all 7.5 billion other people in the world fighting over that last 1%.
These people are not arguing in good faith. Don't devote time or energy responding to their bullshit.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:35 PM on June 27, 2017 [52 favorites]
If there was a God-emperor who personally earned 99% of all money in the entire world, let's just call him "Donald Trump", Republicans led by Norquist would Still invent reasons why that one person deserved a tax cut at the expense of all 7.5 billion other people in the world fighting over that last 1%.
These people are not arguing in good faith. Don't devote time or energy responding to their bullshit.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:35 PM on June 27, 2017 [52 favorites]
I guess Grover's checks from Big Vape stopped clearing and he's back to his 2007 material.
posted by Copronymus at 9:44 PM on June 27, 2017
posted by Copronymus at 9:44 PM on June 27, 2017
Grover Norquist's entire existence, like Paul Ryan's and every other Republican's, is solely based on cutting taxes for the top x% of earners. They want the rich to pay less taxes, preferably zero taxes. All arguments start from that premise. Period. There's nothing further.
Well, there's also racism, misogyny and special rights for Christians; of course, shredding the social contract accomplishes all of these at once.
posted by TedW at 9:50 PM on June 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
Well, there's also racism, misogyny and special rights for Christians; of course, shredding the social contract accomplishes all of these at once.
posted by TedW at 9:50 PM on June 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
While Norquist, et. al. probably enjoy racism, misogyny, and dumping on non-Christian religions, I've no doubt most of them would sell out any of those things for a tax cut.
posted by straight at 10:32 PM on June 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by straight at 10:32 PM on June 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
Is Grover Norquist on a several-day bender or something?
I sure hope so, I've been mentally inserting then...sales tax" as a second line to the opening of novels to instantly Randify them.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 1:43 AM on June 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
I sure hope so, I've been mentally inserting then...sales tax" as a second line to the opening of novels to instantly Randify them.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 1:43 AM on June 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
They want the rich to pay less taxes, preferably zero taxes.
One thing which is important to remember, and to point out to your Republican family members at dinner time arguments, is they still want the little people to pay taxes. Just because they want to eliminate taxes on the rich, and kill the EPA, Medicaid, education funding, and anything else which directly provides benefits to average Americans, doesn't mean the national GOP are suddenly minimalists when it comes to government.
They still want to keep the massive and staggeringly expensive military around, and want to dramatically increase the funding for it. They'd like to keep the wars going. Keep law enforcement going without much oversight. Corporate welfare and giveaways are also important to them.
Someone's got to pay for all of that. And they expect us to pay while absolving the wealthy of any and all obligations to their country.
posted by honestcoyote at 3:02 AM on June 28, 2017 [34 favorites]
One thing which is important to remember, and to point out to your Republican family members at dinner time arguments, is they still want the little people to pay taxes. Just because they want to eliminate taxes on the rich, and kill the EPA, Medicaid, education funding, and anything else which directly provides benefits to average Americans, doesn't mean the national GOP are suddenly minimalists when it comes to government.
They still want to keep the massive and staggeringly expensive military around, and want to dramatically increase the funding for it. They'd like to keep the wars going. Keep law enforcement going without much oversight. Corporate welfare and giveaways are also important to them.
Someone's got to pay for all of that. And they expect us to pay while absolving the wealthy of any and all obligations to their country.
posted by honestcoyote at 3:02 AM on June 28, 2017 [34 favorites]
I'm sorry about this, but every time I see a picture of Mitch MccConnell I want to punch him in the face. Like, I can visualize it in slo-mo.
I want to turn him onto his back in the desert and not help.
posted by Faint of Butt at 4:00 AM on June 28, 2017 [76 favorites]
I want to turn him onto his back in the desert and not help.
posted by Faint of Butt at 4:00 AM on June 28, 2017 [76 favorites]
"When Democrats say they will only tax the top one percent. Remember, to be in top one percent of world income earners-- $32,400. Surprise"
Per the IRS' latest stats:
Top 1-percent Adjusted Gross Income (AGI) break (TY 2014): $465,626
Top 10-percent AGI break: (TY 2014) $133,445
Median AGI (TY 2014): $38,171
Number of returns with AGI $1M or more (TY 2014): 410,106
Per this academic paper [pdf] via the World Bank:
Per the IRS' latest stats:
Top 1-percent Adjusted Gross Income (AGI) break (TY 2014): $465,626
Top 10-percent AGI break: (TY 2014) $133,445
Median AGI (TY 2014): $38,171
Number of returns with AGI $1M or more (TY 2014): 410,106
Per this academic paper [pdf] via the World Bank:
Below we show that the threshold for an individual to enter the global top 1% in 2012 is about PPP$50,000 per capita household income, or PPP$200,000 for a family of four.posted by melissasaurus at 4:19 AM on June 28, 2017 [28 favorites]
Do we know the topline number who will lose JOBS?
This website plotted estimated job losses in each state if AHCA was enacted. I imagine the numbers would be similar under the BCRA.
posted by melissasaurus at 4:22 AM on June 28, 2017 [16 favorites]
This website plotted estimated job losses in each state if AHCA was enacted. I imagine the numbers would be similar under the BCRA.
posted by melissasaurus at 4:22 AM on June 28, 2017 [16 favorites]
Johnson is already talking about moving towards a Yes vote. It's been one fucking day, jerkhole.
posted by Justinian at 4:24 AM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 4:24 AM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
No, really: Top UN official puts faith in Ivanka Trump to lobby father on aid cuts
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:35 AM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:35 AM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
I've been arguing about the job losses for weeks. My argument has always been that while not everyone is enrolled in ACA or on Medicaid, everyone is affected by the economy. It does feel a bit insensitive to talk about that when people are worried about dying children but I think the economic side could be more devastating than people realize. Closing hospitals and nursing homes around the country means nurses, doctors, aides, techs, and admins will be out looking for work. Then there are all the suppliers and vendors. If healthcare is 1/6th of the economy how much can we monkey around with it before we enter a recession?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:40 AM on June 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:40 AM on June 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
The World hasn't yet learned the lesson that we have in the United States, you can't count on Ivanka to have any influence on her dad.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:44 AM on June 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:44 AM on June 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump: The failing @nytimes writes false story after false story about me. They don't even call to verify the facts of a story. A Fake News Joke!
So... this particular phrasing means that the White House received a call from the Times on a damaging story they're going to publish soon, right?
posted by jammer at 4:46 AM on June 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
So... this particular phrasing means that the White House received a call from the Times on a damaging story they're going to publish soon, right?
posted by jammer at 4:46 AM on June 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
Jammer, he appears to be upset about this NYT piece from Glenn Thrush and Jonathan Martin specifically:
On Senate Health Bill, Trump Falters in the Closer’s Role
Thrush's response to Trump is pretty great: "Call your office, sir. @nytimes spoke to many, many, many members of your staff yesterday - & ran everything by your team."
posted by Barack Spinoza at 4:53 AM on June 28, 2017 [46 favorites]
On Senate Health Bill, Trump Falters in the Closer’s Role
Thrush's response to Trump is pretty great: "Call your office, sir. @nytimes spoke to many, many, many members of your staff yesterday - & ran everything by your team."
posted by Barack Spinoza at 4:53 AM on June 28, 2017 [46 favorites]
Grover Norquist: "When Democrats say they will only tax the top one percent.
Remember, to be in top one percent of world income earners-- $32,400.
Surprise"
Huh? Did Democrats say that?
I mean, is taxing only the top one percent, like, the official position of the Democratic Party now?
Because if not, then I suppose this opens a ton of rhetorical possibilities that should be exploited by Democrats:
"When Republicans say that the poor deserve to die, if they can't afford health insurance? Yeah, they're just being real dickheads. Surprise."
posted by sour cream at 5:14 AM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Remember, to be in top one percent of world income earners-- $32,400.
Surprise"
Huh? Did Democrats say that?
I mean, is taxing only the top one percent, like, the official position of the Democratic Party now?
Because if not, then I suppose this opens a ton of rhetorical possibilities that should be exploited by Democrats:
"When Republicans say that the poor deserve to die, if they can't afford health insurance? Yeah, they're just being real dickheads. Surprise."
posted by sour cream at 5:14 AM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Although, on further thought, taxing only incomes above $32,400 is probably something that many Democrats can get behind.
posted by sour cream at 5:15 AM on June 28, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by sour cream at 5:15 AM on June 28, 2017 [18 favorites]
Yeah, I'm good with that. Thanks, Grover!
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:27 AM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:27 AM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
a lot of people who make over 32,400 aren't good with it, though - they want the other person to pay for it - or want other people to stop adding to the cost of it
the democrats often hide the truth by simply not mentioning that the upper working class and middle class are going to be paying a great deal of the cost - instead they claim the rich people can pay for it all - the republicans hide the truth by saying they can reduce that cost and still have a functioning civilization - and by saying that we're all going to have our taxes cut when it's the rich people who are going to get the breaks
i don't feel like our political system is very honest with the people right now - worse, i don't think the people WANT an honest system
what they do want is more money and guess what party is promising that (and mostly lying)?
posted by pyramid termite at 5:38 AM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
the democrats often hide the truth by simply not mentioning that the upper working class and middle class are going to be paying a great deal of the cost - instead they claim the rich people can pay for it all - the republicans hide the truth by saying they can reduce that cost and still have a functioning civilization - and by saying that we're all going to have our taxes cut when it's the rich people who are going to get the breaks
i don't feel like our political system is very honest with the people right now - worse, i don't think the people WANT an honest system
what they do want is more money and guess what party is promising that (and mostly lying)?
posted by pyramid termite at 5:38 AM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Allowing American children's brains to form could seriously jeopardize Eric Trump's election chances
Hee hee! Skooch closer children and let ol' petebest tell you about a time in America what we called the President Reagan. (We spelled "Predisent" wrong back then.) Many people wondered what an actor could do as the head of a functioning government, and when education budgets got slashed and ketchup was a vegetable, there was worry.
There was worry that a distinct and evil plan of the Republican party was to dumb everyone down so they'd vote Republican. That was before the accelerating influence of Fox News which Reagan helped create in his own omniscient way.
As we look out on the skittering cataclysm of the Predisency of Donald Fucking Trump and his dumb-as-shit minions, I am reminded of those Reagan-era discussions. Conspiracy theory they said. Of course not, they said. Republicans want what's best, they said.
Of course the Cubs won the World Series too, so. 'Sa crazy world. I'd buy a ticket.
posted by petebest at 5:56 AM on June 28, 2017 [21 favorites]
Hee hee! Skooch closer children and let ol' petebest tell you about a time in America what we called the President Reagan. (We spelled "Predisent" wrong back then.) Many people wondered what an actor could do as the head of a functioning government, and when education budgets got slashed and ketchup was a vegetable, there was worry.
There was worry that a distinct and evil plan of the Republican party was to dumb everyone down so they'd vote Republican. That was before the accelerating influence of Fox News which Reagan helped create in his own omniscient way.
As we look out on the skittering cataclysm of the Predisency of Donald Fucking Trump and his dumb-as-shit minions, I am reminded of those Reagan-era discussions. Conspiracy theory they said. Of course not, they said. Republicans want what's best, they said.
Of course the Cubs won the World Series too, so. 'Sa crazy world. I'd buy a ticket.
posted by petebest at 5:56 AM on June 28, 2017 [21 favorites]
The NRA explains what's going on in America and oh my fucking god is this real life?
posted by ruetheday at 5:57 AM on June 28, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by ruetheday at 5:57 AM on June 28, 2017 [25 favorites]
I just sent a blistering email to Burr and Tillis our very red senators in NC, via democracy.io. It was all I could do not to write the whole thing in all caps and use fuck and fucking in every sentence. Here's what I basically said:
* NC is 4th out of 50 states in projected loss of healthcare coverage under BCRA by 2026.
* That is 1,348,300 people, or 13% of its current population.
* That number doesn't include the elderly. You know, people in nursing homes, aging in place, your parents, YOU yourself - if we include those, it gets MUCH worse.
* Job loss wise? We're looking at 25k - 50k people losing their jobs if BCRA passes.
* That is ON TOP of over 80 rural NC hospital closures since 2010.
Both healthcare coverage loss and job loss will be staggering. When hospitals close, guess what goes with them? Nurses, operational staff, doctors, physical therapists, lab services, emergency services, the list goes on.
Do you really want a Yes vote for this horrific bill - one that we all know is a massive tax cut for the rich, paid for by the elimination of medicaid - to be on your record?
Mitch McConnell is a soulless, old, greedy politician that couldn't care less about the person typing this letter to you. Don't be like Mitch and Paul Ryan. Think beyond political games, and have a conscience and DO THE JOB you were elected to do.
We are watching. We are voting.
posted by yoga at 6:00 AM on June 28, 2017 [68 favorites]
* NC is 4th out of 50 states in projected loss of healthcare coverage under BCRA by 2026.
* That is 1,348,300 people, or 13% of its current population.
* That number doesn't include the elderly. You know, people in nursing homes, aging in place, your parents, YOU yourself - if we include those, it gets MUCH worse.
* Job loss wise? We're looking at 25k - 50k people losing their jobs if BCRA passes.
* That is ON TOP of over 80 rural NC hospital closures since 2010.
Both healthcare coverage loss and job loss will be staggering. When hospitals close, guess what goes with them? Nurses, operational staff, doctors, physical therapists, lab services, emergency services, the list goes on.
Do you really want a Yes vote for this horrific bill - one that we all know is a massive tax cut for the rich, paid for by the elimination of medicaid - to be on your record?
Mitch McConnell is a soulless, old, greedy politician that couldn't care less about the person typing this letter to you. Don't be like Mitch and Paul Ryan. Think beyond political games, and have a conscience and DO THE JOB you were elected to do.
We are watching. We are voting.
posted by yoga at 6:00 AM on June 28, 2017 [68 favorites]
"When Democrats say they will only tax the top one percent. Remember, to be in top one percent of world income earners-- $32,400. Surprise"
I've yet to see any elected Democrats propose a single, worldwide income tax that funds redistribution of global wealth. But, there are studies that show:
I've yet to see any elected Democrats propose a single, worldwide income tax that funds redistribution of global wealth. But, there are studies that show:
A centralized scheme of world redistribution that maximizes a border-neutral social welfare function, subject to the disincentive effects it would create, generates a drastic reduction in world consumption inequality, dropping the Gini coefficient from 0.69 to 0.25. [...]posted by melissasaurus at 6:08 AM on June 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
Actual foreign aid is vastly lower than the transfers under the simulated world income tax, suggesting that voluntary world transfers – subject to a free-rider problem – produces an outcome that is consistent with rich countries such as the United States either placing a much lower value on the welfare of foreigners, or else expecting that a very significant fraction of cross-border transfers is wasted. The product of the welfare weight and one minus the share of transfers that are wasted constitutes the implicit weight that the United States assigns to foreigners. We calculate that value to be as low as 1/2000 of the value put on the welfare of an American, suggesting that U.S. policy is consistent with social preferences that place essentially no value on the welfare of the citizens of the poorest countries, or that implicitly assumes that essentially all transfers are wasted. [here's an earlier [pdf] version of the complete paper]
Holy fuck that NRA spot.
And they are, under every possible definition, winning. It really shows that they're just salesmen at this point.
posted by Etrigan at 6:20 AM on June 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
And they are, under every possible definition, winning. It really shows that they're just salesmen at this point.
posted by Etrigan at 6:20 AM on June 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
"lol why would we need guns to defend ourselves" –progressives, probably
posted by entropicamericana at 6:22 AM on June 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 6:22 AM on June 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump
The #AmazonWashingtonPost, sometimes referred to as the guardian of Amazon not paying internet taxes (which they should) is FAKE NEWS!
Not gonna try to parse this one, but any guesses on which WaPo story he's thrashing and foaming in response to?
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:23 AM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
The #AmazonWashingtonPost, sometimes referred to as the guardian of Amazon not paying internet taxes (which they should) is FAKE NEWS!
Not gonna try to parse this one, but any guesses on which WaPo story he's thrashing and foaming in response to?
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:23 AM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Ugh, is today "say stupid shit about taxes day" or something?
@realDonaldTrump
The #AmazonWashingtonPost, sometimes referred to as the guardian of Amazon not paying internet taxes (which they should) is FAKE NEWS!
Obviously, this sentence makes no sense from an English-language perspective. But also, "internet taxes" (to the extent one can treat that as an actual, defined term) are prohibited under the Internet Tax Freedom Act. If he means sales taxes on remote purchases, Amazon voluntarily collects and remits sales taxes in all states that impose them.
posted by melissasaurus at 6:24 AM on June 28, 2017 [34 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump
The #AmazonWashingtonPost, sometimes referred to as the guardian of Amazon not paying internet taxes (which they should) is FAKE NEWS!
Obviously, this sentence makes no sense from an English-language perspective. But also, "internet taxes" (to the extent one can treat that as an actual, defined term) are prohibited under the Internet Tax Freedom Act. If he means sales taxes on remote purchases, Amazon voluntarily collects and remits sales taxes in all states that impose them.
posted by melissasaurus at 6:24 AM on June 28, 2017 [34 favorites]
The NRA explains what's going on in America and oh my fucking god is this real life?
"The only way we can fight the violence of lies is with the clenched fist around a revolver aimed at a goddam lefty's head."
That's where I felt this to be going - I imagine the ones for whom this was meant for also got the unspoken message. We're heading for a civil war, or at least extreme civil unrest and violence.
posted by charred husk at 6:31 AM on June 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
"The only way we can fight the violence of lies is with the clenched fist around a revolver aimed at a goddam lefty's head."
That's where I felt this to be going - I imagine the ones for whom this was meant for also got the unspoken message. We're heading for a civil war, or at least extreme civil unrest and violence.
posted by charred husk at 6:31 AM on June 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
Yes! Everyone should pay taxes! I'm glad you agree with me, Donald!
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:31 AM on June 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:31 AM on June 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
That NRA spot is revolting. However, in what may be a first in human history, the comments that follow it tilt very strongly toward the heartening--rejecting it as divisive, incendiary, unnecessary, propaganda.
posted by Sublimity at 6:33 AM on June 28, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by Sublimity at 6:33 AM on June 28, 2017 [19 favorites]
Here's a steaming cup of GRAR to start your day: Chaffetz: Members of Congress should get stipends to afford homes in D.C. (Jenna Portnoy, WaPo). It's not necessarily a bad idea, but it's coming from the guy who said that low-income people could afford their own health care if they would scale back spending on things such as “that new iPhone they just love.”
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:33 AM on June 28, 2017 [39 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:33 AM on June 28, 2017 [39 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump
The #AmazonWashingtonPost, sometimes referred to as the guardian of Amazon not paying internet taxes (which they should) is FAKE NEWS!
What I take from that is that he just today learned that Jeff Bezos owns the WaPo and was trying desperately to link him to something shady.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:36 AM on June 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
The #AmazonWashingtonPost, sometimes referred to as the guardian of Amazon not paying internet taxes (which they should) is FAKE NEWS!
What I take from that is that he just today learned that Jeff Bezos owns the WaPo and was trying desperately to link him to something shady.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:36 AM on June 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
Supporting taxation of remote sales is also extremely off-message for Republicans, who have been introducing bills for years that would prohibit state taxation of companies without an in-state physical presence. Sensenbrenner introduced a law this term to prohibit any state taxation or regulation of companies without an in-state physical presence.
posted by melissasaurus at 6:40 AM on June 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 6:40 AM on June 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Obviously, this sentence makes no sense from an English-language perspective
goddammit i love metafilter sometimes
posted by joyceanmachine at 6:42 AM on June 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
goddammit i love metafilter sometimes
posted by joyceanmachine at 6:42 AM on June 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
I've always understood "sun's out guns out" to refer to going sleeveless to show off your muscles. I've honestly never heard it in relation to actual guns.
posted by Roommate at 6:43 AM on June 28, 2017 [79 favorites]
posted by Roommate at 6:43 AM on June 28, 2017 [79 favorites]
Trump is very concerned with Amazon taxes, since his own tax returns have been entombed deep within the catacombs of El Dorado, the fabled Amazonian City of Gold
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:43 AM on June 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:43 AM on June 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
"Sun's Out Guns Out" stenciled on it in big white letters. (For those whom don't know that's a slogan of the gun nut crowd.)
I thought it was just a cheeky way of highlighting your biceps, aka "guns", in tank tops.
posted by bluecore at 6:44 AM on June 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
I thought it was just a cheeky way of highlighting your biceps, aka "guns", in tank tops.
posted by bluecore at 6:44 AM on June 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
"Sun's Out Guns Out" stenciled on it in big white letters. (For those whom don't know that's a slogan of the gun nut crowd.)
Different kinda gun.
posted by PenDevil at 6:44 AM on June 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
Different kinda gun.
posted by PenDevil at 6:44 AM on June 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
"Sun's out, guns out" usually just means showing off your arm muscles. Unless you saw them specifically advocating firearm ownership, that's probably all they were talking about.
On review: Yeah, whatRoommate a whole bunch of people said.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:45 AM on June 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
On review: Yeah, what
posted by zombieflanders at 6:45 AM on June 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Guardian of the Amazon? Is that going to be a Groot-only spin-off or is that the sequel to Wonder Woman?
posted by nubs at 6:46 AM on June 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by nubs at 6:46 AM on June 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
I think somebody might have slipped Grover some brown acid when he went to Burning Man. It may or may not have been Susan Sarandon.
posted by scalefree at 6:47 AM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by scalefree at 6:47 AM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Fox & Friends host Ainsley Earhardt claims Republicans need to cut Medicaid because "it was going to people who didn't need it."
These people are cheerleading the deaths of their fellow Americans. I just can't wrap my head around how morally bankrupt they are.
posted by bluecore at 6:52 AM on June 28, 2017 [28 favorites]
These people are cheerleading the deaths of their fellow Americans. I just can't wrap my head around how morally bankrupt they are.
posted by bluecore at 6:52 AM on June 28, 2017 [28 favorites]
Pro Publica :
Facebook’s Secret Censorship Rules Protect White Men from Hate Speech But Not Black Children
A trove of internal documents sheds light on the algorithms that Facebook’s censors use to differentiate between hate speech and legitimate political expression.
by Julia Angwin, ProPublica, and Hannes Grassegger, special to ProPublica, June 28, 2017, 5 a.m.
I wonder if I'll find an actual explanation for why the several very racist most definitely death threats (of the I hope all you [Black people] [die violently] variety) I reported from the comments on a local BLM group's post were returned as not offensive.
Yeah, probably not.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:56 AM on June 28, 2017 [27 favorites]
Facebook’s Secret Censorship Rules Protect White Men from Hate Speech But Not Black Children
A trove of internal documents sheds light on the algorithms that Facebook’s censors use to differentiate between hate speech and legitimate political expression.
by Julia Angwin, ProPublica, and Hannes Grassegger, special to ProPublica, June 28, 2017, 5 a.m.
I wonder if I'll find an actual explanation for why the several very racist most definitely death threats (of the I hope all you [Black people] [die violently] variety) I reported from the comments on a local BLM group's post were returned as not offensive.
Yeah, probably not.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:56 AM on June 28, 2017 [27 favorites]
Saw many recommendations on Twitter that Chaffetz cut back on his avocado toast purchases (and yeah, sell his iPhone) if times are tough.
Re: talking about taxes, it's a tough thing to do, because so many people have been trained to hate them reflexively, meaning that when you talk about rich people not paying them, it becomes something to admire and aspire to.
You constantly find yourself having to teach people basic civics and economics, as in "this is what taxes are, and this is why we need them," and mostly you get petulance in return. "But why do *I* have to pay them???"
posted by emjaybee at 6:58 AM on June 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
Re: talking about taxes, it's a tough thing to do, because so many people have been trained to hate them reflexively, meaning that when you talk about rich people not paying them, it becomes something to admire and aspire to.
You constantly find yourself having to teach people basic civics and economics, as in "this is what taxes are, and this is why we need them," and mostly you get petulance in return. "But why do *I* have to pay them???"
posted by emjaybee at 6:58 AM on June 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
(Or just go visit The Rest Of This Site for discussion of above. Sorry!)
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:59 AM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:59 AM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Sun's out, guns out
It just means you're exercising your right to bare arms.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 6:59 AM on June 28, 2017 [54 favorites]
It just means you're exercising your right to bare arms.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 6:59 AM on June 28, 2017 [54 favorites]
Reporter Michael Schmidt, driver of the NYTimes coverage on Trump-Russia this spring, hasn't authored an article since June 15th (13 days ago). Is it too conspiratorial to hope for something delightful from him coming soon?
Maybe he's just on vacation. Well earned, Mike!
The last long hiatus he had (7 days in March) preceded the bombshell Bill O'Reilly article that led to BillO's firing.
posted by pjenks at 7:01 AM on June 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
Maybe he's just on vacation. Well earned, Mike!
The last long hiatus he had (7 days in March) preceded the bombshell Bill O'Reilly article that led to BillO's firing.
posted by pjenks at 7:01 AM on June 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
Mitch McConnell is a soulless, old, greedy politician
It occurred to me when I was listening to the interview with former Kentucky Governor Beshear, that we don't urge Kentuckians often enough to contact both of their Senators. (Yeah, I know MeFiers are calling, but I'm talking about the wider audience) Kentucky is going to be one of the states hit hardest by this bill and it is their own damn Senator who is the mastermind behind it. Why not storm his office with pitchforks? What have you got to lose, Kentuckians? (A lot if this bill passes.)
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:01 AM on June 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
It occurred to me when I was listening to the interview with former Kentucky Governor Beshear, that we don't urge Kentuckians often enough to contact both of their Senators. (Yeah, I know MeFiers are calling, but I'm talking about the wider audience) Kentucky is going to be one of the states hit hardest by this bill and it is their own damn Senator who is the mastermind behind it. Why not storm his office with pitchforks? What have you got to lose, Kentuckians? (A lot if this bill passes.)
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:01 AM on June 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
It just means you're exercising your right to bare arms.
America: love it or sleeve it.
posted by uncleozzy at 7:02 AM on June 28, 2017 [27 favorites]
America: love it or sleeve it.
posted by uncleozzy at 7:02 AM on June 28, 2017 [27 favorites]
If he means sales taxes on remote purchases, Amazon voluntarily collects and remits sales taxes in all states that impose them.
Good point, thank you melissasaurus. Imma go out on a limb and guess Trump is not a shopper. Things just magically appear because he wills it.
posted by petebest at 7:05 AM on June 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Good point, thank you melissasaurus. Imma go out on a limb and guess Trump is not a shopper. Things just magically appear because he wills it.
posted by petebest at 7:05 AM on June 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Reporter Michael Schmidt, driver of the NYTimes coverage on Trump-Russia this spring, hasn't authored an article since June 15th (13 days ago). Is it too conspiratorial to hope for something delightful from him coming soon?
I think he's writing the "collusion" article that's still ticking.
posted by diogenes at 7:05 AM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
I think he's writing the "collusion" article that's still ticking.
posted by diogenes at 7:05 AM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Beshear also said that McConnell's secret sauce is cash money millions. It doesn't matter what his constituents think of him, he can just throw money at that problem until it goes away. He can just sit there and smile that creepy half-smug/half-what-have-I-done-to-myself smile knowing that he could just buy up all the pitchforks in the state before any of the peasants get a chance to use them.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:06 AM on June 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:06 AM on June 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
Fox & Friends host Ainsley Earhardt claims Republicans need to cut Medicaid because "it was going to people who didn't need it."
These people are cheerleading the deaths of their fellow Americans. I just can't wrap my head around how morally bankrupt they are.
MSNBC just interviewed a panel of doctors who said basically the same thing.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:06 AM on June 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
These people are cheerleading the deaths of their fellow Americans. I just can't wrap my head around how morally bankrupt they are.
MSNBC just interviewed a panel of doctors who said basically the same thing.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:06 AM on June 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
What have you got to lose
Still upset that this was a real, no-foolin' campaign slogan. That wasn't constantly called out and mocked for its inherent nihilism and ignorance. Can I lose Chuck Todd? That'd be okay.
posted by petebest at 7:09 AM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Still upset that this was a real, no-foolin' campaign slogan. That wasn't constantly called out and mocked for its inherent nihilism and ignorance. Can I lose Chuck Todd? That'd be okay.
posted by petebest at 7:09 AM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
> Money is only power because society allows it to be. Don't make us change our minds.
Which is to say, money is power because of laws and a judiciary. Remind me again who's doing the most damage to those institutions right now.
posted by klarck at 7:17 AM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Which is to say, money is power because of laws and a judiciary. Remind me again who's doing the most damage to those institutions right now.
posted by klarck at 7:17 AM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
So is it really the fake Time covers thing that set Trump off on WaPo? Stupid enough to be true, I guess.
posted by Artw at 7:20 AM on June 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:20 AM on June 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
A stipend for Congressional housing? How about a dormitory instead? It'd be cheap, it wouldn't further inflate the local housing market, and you'd create so many more opportunities for collegiality and informal deal making.
Someone should get Ben Carson on it.
posted by notyou at 7:25 AM on June 28, 2017 [44 favorites]
Someone should get Ben Carson on it.
posted by notyou at 7:25 AM on June 28, 2017 [44 favorites]
Someone should get Ben Carson on it.
look storing congressmen isn't like storing grain, you can't just throw them into a pyramid and be done with it; you have to wait until they're dead first
posted by entropicamericana at 7:28 AM on June 28, 2017 [49 favorites]
look storing congressmen isn't like storing grain, you can't just throw them into a pyramid and be done with it; you have to wait until they're dead first
posted by entropicamericana at 7:28 AM on June 28, 2017 [49 favorites]
Holy fuck that NRA spot.And they are, under every possible definition, winning. It really shows that they're just salesmen at this point.
Well, they're winning if the goal is only to make sure lawmakers won't restrict the sale of arms and will loosen any restrictions that exist regardless of the consequences. Or even if the goal is to make sure their preferred party is holding all of the power elected office can bestow.
But on the other hand, there are still people exercising the 1st amendment right to criticize the cult built up around the 2nd, there's still a press where people can post criticism of the preferred party.
The worship of Mammon as the ultimate God of the GOP and affiliated right wing is generally as safe bet, but these days I'm not sure it's safe to assume that whoever made that video doesn't really see the world from its point of view.
posted by wildblueyonder at 7:31 AM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
“The president cares more about CNN and the Russia story than [Syria] at the moment,”
posted by adamvasco at 7:42 AM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by adamvasco at 7:42 AM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Anecdatum: I called a regional office for my Republican senator and after taking my name and address they pointed out that I didn't have a local telephone number. I explained that people often keep their mobile number when moving house. So, apparently some people are interested in whether calls are from constituents or not.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:49 AM on June 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:49 AM on June 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
Can I lose Chuck Todd? That'd be okay.
*subtly leans away as Chuck Todd falls into koi pond*
Got your back, petebest.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:53 AM on June 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
*subtly leans away as Chuck Todd falls into koi pond*
Got your back, petebest.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:53 AM on June 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Or he could even pay an artist to paint him in a very flattering light-- he supposedly has so much money to play with.
I think if we have learned anything about the financial situation of the president*, it is that he did not get rich by paying people who have performed services for him.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:54 AM on June 28, 2017 [15 favorites]
I think if we have learned anything about the financial situation of the president*, it is that he did not get rich by paying people who have performed services for him.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:54 AM on June 28, 2017 [15 favorites]
I am thankful for subtitles on that NRA clip. My brain automatically replaces all traces of Dana Loesch with a hand puppet making an increasingly loud keening noise.
Guns and guns and guns and eeeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
posted by delfin at 7:58 AM on June 28, 2017
Guns and guns and guns and eeeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
posted by delfin at 7:58 AM on June 28, 2017
I think we found who is radicalizing all those lone wolves.
posted by Artw at 8:01 AM on June 28, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:01 AM on June 28, 2017 [30 favorites]
look storing congressmen isn't like storing grain, you can't just throw them into a pyramid and be done with it; you have to wait until they're dead first
An unnecessary nicety in some cases.
posted by kingless at 8:03 AM on June 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
An unnecessary nicety in some cases.
posted by kingless at 8:03 AM on June 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think it's perfectly reasonable to give congressmembers stipends for housing, for the reason given by cjelli above: we want being a congressmember to be a job that you don't have to be rich to do. Recall that pay for members of parliament was one of the key demands of 19th century reformers in the U.K.; also note that one of the reasons why state legislatures are often so loony is that they're often very low-pay positions, and so the people best situated to run for those seats end up being independently wealthy and/or folks who 1: can take off work for months at a time while the state congress is in session and 2: use their position to promote their business. (for some reason it's super common for realtors to do this).
So, yeah, housing stipends for congressmembers.
The only thing I'd add is that the stipends for congressmembers should be also distributed to literally everyone else in America as well. But wait, you say, wouldn't that be inflationary? wouldn't landlords just drive up the cost of housing, thereby recapturing the subsidy? Yes, they would: and that's why there needs to be state mandated and enforced caps on rent.
There! It's a middle of the road solution that satisfies everyone. You're welcome!
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:08 AM on June 28, 2017 [26 favorites]
So, yeah, housing stipends for congressmembers.
The only thing I'd add is that the stipends for congressmembers should be also distributed to literally everyone else in America as well. But wait, you say, wouldn't that be inflationary? wouldn't landlords just drive up the cost of housing, thereby recapturing the subsidy? Yes, they would: and that's why there needs to be state mandated and enforced caps on rent.
There! It's a middle of the road solution that satisfies everyone. You're welcome!
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:08 AM on June 28, 2017 [26 favorites]
Trump going to Paris for Bastille day
That Macron guy is sneaky. I wonder if he can pull it off…
posted by mumimor at 8:13 AM on June 28, 2017 [20 favorites]
That Macron guy is sneaky. I wonder if he can pull it off…
posted by mumimor at 8:13 AM on June 28, 2017 [20 favorites]
That NRA commercial is going to cause genuine, real life people to take up arms. I can see my brother, a member of the NRA who I have cut off since the election (which was a catalyst for change, not the reason for it) taking this commercial very personally. I am sick to my stomach.
posted by Sophie1 at 8:14 AM on June 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Sophie1 at 8:14 AM on June 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
For another data point, in Chicago and Milwaukee "Sun's out, guns out" generally refers to the tremendous increase in gun violence on nice days. Chicago often sees 50+ shootings on a nice weekend.
So, to me, that phrase is an odd bit of gallows humor; you hear a shooting in the distance, and you say that as a reminder that "this is somehow normal." :(
posted by juice boo at 8:18 AM on June 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
So, to me, that phrase is an odd bit of gallows humor; you hear a shooting in the distance, and you say that as a reminder that "this is somehow normal." :(
posted by juice boo at 8:18 AM on June 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
So, since Turtle McEvil has delayed the vote until after the recess, we Resistors need to stay on top of our game, lest the Senate pull the same vote stunt as the house. They have not given up by any means, they lurking, waiting, like a coiled serpent.
Also, this thread is starting to kill my tablet, not sure if others are seeing performance issues too, of if it's my hardware.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 8:19 AM on June 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
Also, this thread is starting to kill my tablet, not sure if others are seeing performance issues too, of if it's my hardware.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 8:19 AM on June 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
(for some reason it's super common for realtors to do this)
Realtors are often (usually?) independent-contractor-types who won't be fired for missing months of work, and their schedules are generally flexible enough that they can mostly schedule legislative and paying work around each other during the session. Secondarily, they're a highly regulated industry and being in the legislature expands their network of contacts. Thirdly (tertiarily?), they're in a line of work where they already have to advertise themselves, as themselves, quite heavily just to get by so even a losing campaign can be a decent PR deal if it means a party or donors are paying to put posters with your face and name all over your territory.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:19 AM on June 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
Realtors are often (usually?) independent-contractor-types who won't be fired for missing months of work, and their schedules are generally flexible enough that they can mostly schedule legislative and paying work around each other during the session. Secondarily, they're a highly regulated industry and being in the legislature expands their network of contacts. Thirdly (tertiarily?), they're in a line of work where they already have to advertise themselves, as themselves, quite heavily just to get by so even a losing campaign can be a decent PR deal if it means a party or donors are paying to put posters with your face and name all over your territory.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:19 AM on June 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
For another data point, in Chicago and Milwaukee "Sun's out, guns out" generally refers to the tremendous increase in gun violence on nice days. Chicago often sees 50+ shootings on a nice weekend.
Yet another reason why we must destroy the sun.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:20 AM on June 28, 2017 [18 favorites]
Yet another reason why we must destroy the sun.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:20 AM on June 28, 2017 [18 favorites]
Ongoing Super Deluxe series with Former Mexican President Vincente Fox throwing mad shade on Current American President Donald Trump: 1 2 3
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:20 AM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:20 AM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
For another data point, in Chicago and Milwaukee "Sun's out, guns out" generally refers to the tremendous increase in gun violence on nice days. Chicago often sees 50+ shootings on a nice weekend.
What? I live in MKE in a neighborhood where "fireworks or gunshots" is completely normal, and I've only heard the phrase in relation to short or no sleeves.
posted by The Gaffer at 8:21 AM on June 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
What? I live in MKE in a neighborhood where "fireworks or gunshots" is completely normal, and I've only heard the phrase in relation to short or no sleeves.
posted by The Gaffer at 8:21 AM on June 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
Holy fuck that NRA spot.
Any NRA members here on Mefi?
If so, do you think it's OK to support this organization or isn't it time to leave now? And tell your friends that they should leave too?
posted by sour cream at 8:22 AM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Any NRA members here on Mefi?
If so, do you think it's OK to support this organization or isn't it time to leave now? And tell your friends that they should leave too?
posted by sour cream at 8:22 AM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Be really gentle telling them though, you don't want to start a shooting war
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:23 AM on June 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:23 AM on June 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
And isn't this an opportunity for alternative gun owners associations?
I can see a market for an association that is like the NRA, only .... sane.
posted by sour cream at 8:23 AM on June 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
I can see a market for an association that is like the NRA, only .... sane.
posted by sour cream at 8:23 AM on June 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
Yet another reason why we must destroy the sun.
Since the beginning of time, man has yearned to destroy the sun.
posted by Servo5678 at 8:24 AM on June 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Since the beginning of time, man has yearned to destroy the sun.
posted by Servo5678 at 8:24 AM on June 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
I am completely in favor of treating Congress like college freshmen and requiring they live on-campus, in dorms, and pay for a meal plan and eat in the cafeteria.
If they want anything else they pay for it themselves.
posted by emjaybee at 8:26 AM on June 28, 2017 [36 favorites]
If they want anything else they pay for it themselves.
posted by emjaybee at 8:26 AM on June 28, 2017 [36 favorites]
GOP Sen.: An Opioid Treatment Carveout Alone Won’t Win My O’Care Repeal Vote
(It's Capito, R-WV)
posted by Barack Spinoza at 8:28 AM on June 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
(It's Capito, R-WV)
posted by Barack Spinoza at 8:28 AM on June 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
Lindsey Bever, WaPo: Trump’s bogus Time cover — the fake news that launched an army of memes
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:28 AM on June 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:28 AM on June 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
I can see a market for an association that is like the NRA, only .... sane.
Pro-gun Mefites list NRA alternatives all the time. But, as many liberal and libertarian 2nd amendment supporters will tell you, the NRA isn't about gun rights, it's a gun-oriented wing of the conservative world. Just being pro-2nd amendment isn't enough to pry its members away.
posted by charred husk at 8:31 AM on June 28, 2017 [22 favorites]
Pro-gun Mefites list NRA alternatives all the time. But, as many liberal and libertarian 2nd amendment supporters will tell you, the NRA isn't about gun rights, it's a gun-oriented wing of the conservative world. Just being pro-2nd amendment isn't enough to pry its members away.
posted by charred husk at 8:31 AM on June 28, 2017 [22 favorites]
Welcome to my world, folks. I spend many hours a week watching and reading NRA media and gun culture sites. Honestly, the organization itself is far less scary than a lot of its fans.
posted by Superplin at 8:35 AM on June 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Superplin at 8:35 AM on June 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
I might be alone here but I strongly support high salaries/stipends for elected officials, just so they're a little less likely to seek alternate sources of income from Dow Chemical or Rosneft or what have you.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:36 AM on June 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:36 AM on June 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
Marc Thiessen, WaPo: The Senate GOP’s health-care bill is a liberal’s caricature of conservatism
Sen. Mitch McConnell has called off a vote this week on the Senate Republican health-care bill. That’s a good thing. Because if Republicans want to confirm every liberal caricature of conservatism in a single piece of legislation, they could do no better than vote on the GOP bill in its current form.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:37 AM on June 28, 2017 [27 favorites]
Here is the summary of the bill that Democrats will take to the American people in 2018: Republicans voted to cut $701 billion in taxes for corporations and the wealthy, and pay for it with $772 billion taken from Medicaid for the poor — all while pushing 22 million Americans off health care.
And Senate Republicans are writing the script for them. Have they lost their minds?
I am completely in favor of treating Congress like college freshmen and requiring they live on-campus, in dorms, and pay for a meal plan and eat in the cafeteria.
If they want anything else they pay for it themselves.
I would like to see a system in place that disincentivizes wealthy people holding Congressional seats and encourages less well-off folks to seek office.
I'd propose, as a starting point, for my pie-in-the-sky scenario:
If they want anything else they pay for it themselves.
I would like to see a system in place that disincentivizes wealthy people holding Congressional seats and encourages less well-off folks to seek office.
I'd propose, as a starting point, for my pie-in-the-sky scenario:
- Constitutional amendment undoing Citizens United
- Publicly financed elections
- Massive tax on income and assets above some threshold--you want to be a legislator, you literally cannot be hoarding wealth while in office
- Lifetime ban on lobbying
- Competitive salary and excellent benefits, including pension, housing stipend
The NRA has also leveraged its position such that it's not uncommon for ranges to have NRA membership be a requirement to shoot there. Those that do so can qualify for legal assistance and grants. I know a fellow who lives south of me here in VA who has no range within an hour that he can use because he refuses to be an NRA member.
He happens to be a pretty dyed in the wool leftie; hell, most of you probably read something he wrote (uncredited) about the current administration. I know it as linked in these threads. So he's an outlier, and the more squishy middle group of gun owners who'd be fine with sensible registration & training requirements just shrug and join the NRA when they're in that position. And the NRA knows it.
It probably wouldn't be a big issue if so many congresscritters weren't already looking for a simple fig leaf to justify going along with the NRA position. If the NRA really had to mobilize their membership, a la the way AARP is for this health care bill, they'd field fewer numbers than their membership number claims would indicate.
posted by phearlez at 8:43 AM on June 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
He happens to be a pretty dyed in the wool leftie; hell, most of you probably read something he wrote (uncredited) about the current administration. I know it as linked in these threads. So he's an outlier, and the more squishy middle group of gun owners who'd be fine with sensible registration & training requirements just shrug and join the NRA when they're in that position. And the NRA knows it.
It probably wouldn't be a big issue if so many congresscritters weren't already looking for a simple fig leaf to justify going along with the NRA position. If the NRA really had to mobilize their membership, a la the way AARP is for this health care bill, they'd field fewer numbers than their membership number claims would indicate.
posted by phearlez at 8:43 AM on June 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
If it makes anyone feel any better, the top 5 comments on that NRA ad are very critical of the message - from both right- and left-leaning perspectives. Look for the helpers.
posted by R a c h e l at 8:45 AM on June 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by R a c h e l at 8:45 AM on June 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
God Rick Perry is a doofus
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:51 AM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:51 AM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
I am completely in favor of treating Congress like college freshmen and requiring they live on-campus, in dorms, and pay for a meal plan and eat in the cafeteria.
If they want anything else they pay for it themselves.
This is absolutely the only way I would support paying my trash senators to live anywhere.
In fact, I say we mandate that congressional representatives in both houses have to live in public housing in DC, scattered across the city. It is one way to improve public housing in DC.
posted by winna at 9:04 AM on June 28, 2017 [26 favorites]
If they want anything else they pay for it themselves.
This is absolutely the only way I would support paying my trash senators to live anywhere.
In fact, I say we mandate that congressional representatives in both houses have to live in public housing in DC, scattered across the city. It is one way to improve public housing in DC.
posted by winna at 9:04 AM on June 28, 2017 [26 favorites]
As of 2012, the base salary for all members of the U.S. House and Senate is $174,000 per year, plus benefits. I'm not seeing how they can't afford housing in DC on that much money or why on earth I should support paying them even more than I can ever dream of making.
posted by hydropsyche at 9:06 AM on June 28, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 9:06 AM on June 28, 2017 [19 favorites]
In fact, I say we mandate that congressional representatives in both houses have to live in public housing in DC, scattered across the city. It is one way to improve public housing in DC.
Brilliant. This would be world-shattering for some. And would def cut down on those wanting to be lifers in Congress.
posted by rc3spencer at 9:08 AM on June 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
Brilliant. This would be world-shattering for some. And would def cut down on those wanting to be lifers in Congress.
posted by rc3spencer at 9:08 AM on June 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
How about a sliding scale means-tested allowance. I mean, they love means-testing shit. Because like fuck am I going to pay for Pat Toomey, a legit millionaire and one of the wealthiest members of Congress, to put a pool in at his Bethesda condo or whatever. But I also understand that being a Congressperson is a massive life-upheaval where you have to leave your job for one of unknowable longevity and maintain two residences for most of the year and to someone say, like me, that's completely bonkers to even contemplate.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:13 AM on June 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:13 AM on June 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
Trump does have a headdress, it's kinda his signature thing.
posted by contraption at 9:15 AM on June 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by contraption at 9:15 AM on June 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
And Senate Republicans are writing the script for them. Have they lost their minds?
No. They just won't be punished. At least in not any meaningful way. The absolute worst case they have right now is that they drag Pence in for every single vote post-2018 and 2020 only deep red Senate seats are at risk.
They may lose the house until the liberals get bored and start losing interest in politics but all they need is 40 in the Senate to grind everything to a halt again and make Democrats fight a war for every inch of progress a'la the 111th Congress.
posted by Talez at 9:16 AM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
No. They just won't be punished. At least in not any meaningful way. The absolute worst case they have right now is that they drag Pence in for every single vote post-2018 and 2020 only deep red Senate seats are at risk.
They may lose the house until the liberals get bored and start losing interest in politics but all they need is 40 in the Senate to grind everything to a halt again and make Democrats fight a war for every inch of progress a'la the 111th Congress.
posted by Talez at 9:16 AM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
In other "I guess I won't need that stipend anymore" news, Jason Chaffetz has signed on as a contributor to Fox news according to Ben Jacobs
posted by TwoWordReview at 9:19 AM on June 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by TwoWordReview at 9:19 AM on June 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
I get that bagging on congress is fun, but I certainly hope you all are aware that what you're really proposing is a variety of ways to insure we get even more know-nothings who can't get gainful employment in other fields. There has never in the history of the US been a measure to limit compensation and flexibility for elected representatives that didn't have an unpleasant distorting effect on who ends up in those jobs.
It should, in a good timeline, be a job that we want to fill with highly qualified and intelligent people who have many other choices of how to make a living. Making it inferior to those other choices just means you end up with chuckleheads and nutter radicals and increase the incentives towards graft.
All the above comments sound part and parcel with the nonsense I hear about "well of course it pays less, it's for a charity! Why should they make salaries competitive with the private sector?"
posted by phearlez at 9:20 AM on June 28, 2017 [12 favorites]
It should, in a good timeline, be a job that we want to fill with highly qualified and intelligent people who have many other choices of how to make a living. Making it inferior to those other choices just means you end up with chuckleheads and nutter radicals and increase the incentives towards graft.
All the above comments sound part and parcel with the nonsense I hear about "well of course it pays less, it's for a charity! Why should they make salaries competitive with the private sector?"
posted by phearlez at 9:20 AM on June 28, 2017 [12 favorites]
Marc Thiessen, WaPo: The Senate GOP’s health-care bill is a liberal’s caricature of conservatism
posted by Talez at 9:20 AM on June 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
Even better for Democrats, the bill will disproportionately impact states President Trump won which are the epicenter of the opioid crisis.I'm not sure what to say to this. I mean it's probably true but it's just so fucking ghoulish to even think about.
posted by Talez at 9:20 AM on June 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
Marc Thiessen, WaPo: The Senate GOP’s health-care bill is a liberal’s caricature of conservatism
No, fuck you, Theissen. It's proof that everything liberals accused Republicans of for 40 years was 100% accurate. Something is not a caricature if it's fact.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:24 AM on June 28, 2017 [70 favorites]
No, fuck you, Theissen. It's proof that everything liberals accused Republicans of for 40 years was 100% accurate. Something is not a caricature if it's fact.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:24 AM on June 28, 2017 [70 favorites]
Johnny Wallflower: "Marc Thiessen, WaPo: The Senate GOP’s health-care bill is a liberal’s caricature of conservatism"
Is it really a "caricature" if it is literally what they're doing? I mean, we don't normally call perfect photographic reproductions "caricatures". Someone might look like a caricature because their features are so comically exaggerated. But I don't think we would call their own reflection in a mirror a "caricature".
Meanwhile, here's an article from Vox, "What do conservatives want American health care to look like?":
posted by mhum at 9:25 AM on June 28, 2017 [53 favorites]
Is it really a "caricature" if it is literally what they're doing? I mean, we don't normally call perfect photographic reproductions "caricatures". Someone might look like a caricature because their features are so comically exaggerated. But I don't think we would call their own reflection in a mirror a "caricature".
Meanwhile, here's an article from Vox, "What do conservatives want American health care to look like?":
The progressive left, it’s clear, wants a government program, financed by taxpayers, that offers coverage to everyone. That’s how they do it in Canada and the Nordic countries. The Affordable Care Act’s exchanges point us to what the ideological center’s vision is supposed to look like — a more modest version of the Swiss, Dutch, or Germany-style system. Something like the universal Medicaid buy-in that Nevada’s state legislature passed (only to be vetoed by the state’s Republican governor) echoes the French system of a government-run universal backstop with private insurance overlaid on top of it.Spoiler alert: it's just tax cuts for the rich. That's it, that's all.
But what do conservatives think health insurance in America should look like? The specific vision for repealing the ACA is pretty clear — a big tax cut for the rich, financed by huge rollbacks in health coverage for working class and poor families. But what’s the desired end goal?
posted by mhum at 9:25 AM on June 28, 2017 [53 favorites]
So.. hypothetically:
How much would it cost to order & ship a black top hat & Snidely Whiplash mustache to every R in congress who voted for either of these healthcare bills? You know, to help them complete the look.
Asking for a friend..
posted by narwhal at 9:26 AM on June 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
How much would it cost to order & ship a black top hat & Snidely Whiplash mustache to every R in congress who voted for either of these healthcare bills? You know, to help them complete the look.
Asking for a friend..
posted by narwhal at 9:26 AM on June 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
Is it really a "caricature" if it is literally what they're doing?
That would violate the "both sides do it and are just as bad" axiom
posted by thelonius at 9:30 AM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
That would violate the "both sides do it and are just as bad" axiom
posted by thelonius at 9:30 AM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
I get that bagging on congress is fun, but I certainly hope you all are aware that what you're really proposing is a variety of ways to insure we get even more know-nothings who can't get gainful employment in other fields. There has never in the history of the US been a measure to limit compensation and flexibility for elected representatives that didn't have an unpleasant distorting effect on who ends up in those jobs.
It should, in a good timeline, be a job that we want to fill with highly qualified and intelligent people who have many other choices of how to make a living. Making it inferior to those other choices just means you end up with chuckleheads and nutter radicals and increase the incentives towards graft.
All the above comments sound part and parcel with the nonsense I hear about "well of course it pays less, it's for a charity! Why should they make salaries competitive with the private sector?"
I am neither a chucklehead nor a know-nothing. I will never ever make $174,000 in a year. The median household income in the US is still $55,775. To an awful lot of us, including those of us with PhDs, getting elected to Congress and making that salary would basically be like winning the lottery.
posted by hydropsyche at 9:31 AM on June 28, 2017 [46 favorites]
It should, in a good timeline, be a job that we want to fill with highly qualified and intelligent people who have many other choices of how to make a living. Making it inferior to those other choices just means you end up with chuckleheads and nutter radicals and increase the incentives towards graft.
All the above comments sound part and parcel with the nonsense I hear about "well of course it pays less, it's for a charity! Why should they make salaries competitive with the private sector?"
I am neither a chucklehead nor a know-nothing. I will never ever make $174,000 in a year. The median household income in the US is still $55,775. To an awful lot of us, including those of us with PhDs, getting elected to Congress and making that salary would basically be like winning the lottery.
posted by hydropsyche at 9:31 AM on June 28, 2017 [46 favorites]
2020 only deep red Senate seats are at risk.
2020 includes good Dem targets in Maine, North Carolina and Colorado, and possibly Iowa or Georgia. Democrats will only be seriously defending Michigan, New Mexico and Virginia. Stretch goals after 4
Years of Trump could include Tennessee, Texas, West Virgina and Mitch McConnell himself if things really went off the rails. The 2018 map is hopeless, but 2020 is slightly less so.
Unfortunately Democrats forfietted the best cycle running comically bad candidates like Evan Bath, Ted Strickland, Patrick Murphy and Patty Judge in what were projected to be competitive races.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:33 AM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
2020 includes good Dem targets in Maine, North Carolina and Colorado, and possibly Iowa or Georgia. Democrats will only be seriously defending Michigan, New Mexico and Virginia. Stretch goals after 4
Years of Trump could include Tennessee, Texas, West Virgina and Mitch McConnell himself if things really went off the rails. The 2018 map is hopeless, but 2020 is slightly less so.
Unfortunately Democrats forfietted the best cycle running comically bad candidates like Evan Bath, Ted Strickland, Patrick Murphy and Patty Judge in what were projected to be competitive races.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:33 AM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Marc Thiessen, WaPo: The Senate GOP’s health-care bill is a liberal’s caricature of conservatism
Even better for Democrats, the bill will disproportionately impact states President Trump won which are the epicenter of the opioid crisis.
I'm not sure what to say to this. I mean it's probably true but it's just so fucking ghoulish to even think about.
posted by Talez at 1:20 AM on June 29 [4 favorites +] [!]
Don't hesitate to point to murdering murderers and say "They're murdering people" to gain votes for non-murderers.
posted by saysthis at 9:36 AM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Even better for Democrats, the bill will disproportionately impact states President Trump won which are the epicenter of the opioid crisis.
I'm not sure what to say to this. I mean it's probably true but it's just so fucking ghoulish to even think about.
posted by Talez at 1:20 AM on June 29 [4 favorites +] [!]
Don't hesitate to point to murdering murderers and say "They're murdering people" to gain votes for non-murderers.
posted by saysthis at 9:36 AM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Sally Yates is on fire at the Aspen Ideas Festival: Trump administration behavior 'should be alarming to us as a country'
Video link (via Bradd Jaffy): "Bob Mueller is going to be deciding whether crimes were committed that could be used for prosecution or impeachment. Surely that's not our bar, that's not the standard of conduct that we're looking for from our president or our administration. I mean, it shouldn't just be whether you committed a felony or not. {...} While I have total confidence in Bob Mueller and his ability to conduct this investigation, I don't think that we should just be putting all of our hopes in, well, that'll tell us whether anything bad happened. {...} There are facts here that should be alarming to us as a country that fall short of facts that would establish a basis for impeachment or for prosecution."
While Metafilter has of course been alarmed by these implications since last year, there's an awful lot of Americans - Trump supporters notwithstanding - who simply aren't yet. Meantime, Team Trump is creating what Yates called a "toxic swirl" of misinformation about Mueller, and by extension, the Trump-Russia scandal, in order head off any such discussion.
posted by Doktor Zed at 9:41 AM on June 28, 2017 [53 favorites]
Video link (via Bradd Jaffy): "Bob Mueller is going to be deciding whether crimes were committed that could be used for prosecution or impeachment. Surely that's not our bar, that's not the standard of conduct that we're looking for from our president or our administration. I mean, it shouldn't just be whether you committed a felony or not. {...} While I have total confidence in Bob Mueller and his ability to conduct this investigation, I don't think that we should just be putting all of our hopes in, well, that'll tell us whether anything bad happened. {...} There are facts here that should be alarming to us as a country that fall short of facts that would establish a basis for impeachment or for prosecution."
While Metafilter has of course been alarmed by these implications since last year, there's an awful lot of Americans - Trump supporters notwithstanding - who simply aren't yet. Meantime, Team Trump is creating what Yates called a "toxic swirl" of misinformation about Mueller, and by extension, the Trump-Russia scandal, in order head off any such discussion.
posted by Doktor Zed at 9:41 AM on June 28, 2017 [53 favorites]
There has never in the history of the US been a measure to limit compensation and flexibility for elected representatives that didn't have an unpleasant distorting effect on who ends up in those jobs.
I'm gonna needs some examples of this.
posted by rc3spencer at 9:43 AM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm gonna needs some examples of this.
posted by rc3spencer at 9:43 AM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
How much would it cost to order & ship a black top hat & Snidely Whiplash mustache to every R in congress who voted for either of these healthcare bills?
top hat: $5.96 shipped
mustache: $4.34 shipped
So you're looking at 217 House Republicans plus, say, 49 Senators at $10.30 per recipient, for a total of $2739.80 (or about the per capita annual health care expenditure for a citizen of Portugal.)
posted by contraption at 9:43 AM on June 28, 2017 [20 favorites]
top hat: $5.96 shipped
mustache: $4.34 shipped
So you're looking at 217 House Republicans plus, say, 49 Senators at $10.30 per recipient, for a total of $2739.80 (or about the per capita annual health care expenditure for a citizen of Portugal.)
posted by contraption at 9:43 AM on June 28, 2017 [20 favorites]
NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist poll, presidential approval/disapproval:
Overall: 37/51
D: 9/85
R: 80/10 (ugh)
I: 30/59
Also:
White college degree: 35/57
White non-college: 51/37
Those numbers for independents are a good sign, I'd say.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:47 AM on June 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
Overall: 37/51
D: 9/85
R: 80/10 (ugh)
I: 30/59
Also:
White college degree: 35/57
White non-college: 51/37
Those numbers for independents are a good sign, I'd say.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:47 AM on June 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
I wonder how many of these "Independents" are people like me, who call themselves independent because they're further left than the Democratic establishment, but are actually registered Democrats and reliably vote for Democratic candidates.
(Polls always ask me whether I'm closer to the Democratic or Republican party, and I of course say I'm closer to the Democrats. This is true in the same way that San Francisco is closer to Chicago than it is to New York.)
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:57 AM on June 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
(Polls always ask me whether I'm closer to the Democratic or Republican party, and I of course say I'm closer to the Democrats. This is true in the same way that San Francisco is closer to Chicago than it is to New York.)
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:57 AM on June 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
I wonder how many of these "Independents" are people like me, who call themselves independent because they're further left than the Democratic establishment, but are actually registered Democrats and reliably vote D.
You're probably balanced by the libertarians who always vote R when it matters.
posted by Etrigan at 10:01 AM on June 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
You're probably balanced by the libertarians who always vote R when it matters.
posted by Etrigan at 10:01 AM on June 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
The Senate GOP’s health-care bill is a liberal’s caricature of conservatism
Conservatives got Donald Fucking Trump elected President of the United States. What would a caricature even look like at this point? Never mind I found it
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:01 AM on June 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
Conservatives got Donald Fucking Trump elected President of the United States. What would a caricature even look like at this point? Never mind I found it
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:01 AM on June 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
So... just a thought that's been noodling around in the back of my head about this "opioid crisis" or "opioid epidemic" that is a major reason why the Medicaid expansion is still alive (for now). How come these Senators and congressmen are so sympathetic to these addicts? Why isn't the right wing proposing a huge push to lock them up? "Three pills and you're out"? It's much more about treatment and rehabilitation instead of a criminal law enforcement response.
Which - yes, good, excellent - but the contrast to the way people talked about the inner city crack cocaine epidemic is a bit jarring, isn't it?
(Give me a minute here, I'm sure I'll figure out what the difference is.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:08 AM on June 28, 2017 [49 favorites]
Which - yes, good, excellent - but the contrast to the way people talked about the inner city crack cocaine epidemic is a bit jarring, isn't it?
(Give me a minute here, I'm sure I'll figure out what the difference is.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:08 AM on June 28, 2017 [49 favorites]
Conservatives also supported Romneycare and opposed Obamacare. Could this be a clue?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:11 AM on June 28, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:11 AM on June 28, 2017 [15 favorites]
Paige Winfield Cunningham and Sean Sullivan at WaPo: McConnell is trying to revise the Senate health-care bill by Friday
posted by Mister Fabulous at 10:12 AM on June 28, 2017 [30 favorites]
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell is aiming to send a revised version of his health-care bill to the Congressional Budget Office by as soon as Friday, according to Capitol Hill aides and lobbyists.As if you needed a reminder: he's not done.
The effort reflects the tight timeline McConnell faces in his attempt to hold a vote before the August recess — and the pressure he is under to make changes that improve the CBO’s measure of the bill’s impact on coverage levels and federal spending.
McConnell is trying to move quickly to produce a new CBO score by the time lawmakers return to Washington in mid-July, giving the Senate about two weeks to fulfill the majority leader’s goal of voting before the August recess.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 10:12 AM on June 28, 2017 [30 favorites]
The only moral addiction is my addiction.
posted by erisfree at 10:14 AM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by erisfree at 10:14 AM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
We would be wise not to take victory for granted and relax, while McConnell plods along, confident his slow and steady persistence will win the race. We shell overcome.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:18 AM on June 28, 2017 [44 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:18 AM on June 28, 2017 [44 favorites]
> Why isn't the right wing proposing a huge push to lock them up?
Say hello to AG Jeff Sessions:
Say hello to AG Jeff Sessions:
Sessions instructed federal prosecutors nationwide to seek the strongest possible charges and sentences against defendants they target. “It is a core principle that prosecutors should charge and pursue the most serious, readily provable offense,” he wrote. “This policy fully utilizes the tools Congress has given us. By definition, the most serious offenses are those that carry the most substantial guidelines sentence, including mandatory-minimum sentences.”posted by rtha at 10:19 AM on June 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
By definition, the most serious offenses are those that carry the most substantial guidelines sentence, including mandatory-minimum sentences.”
Literally, a death wish.
posted by saysthis at 10:21 AM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Literally, a death wish.
posted by saysthis at 10:21 AM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
It is a core principle that prosecutors should charge and pursue the most serious, readily provable offense
No it isn't.
See, I can state things authoritatively too without any reasoning or evidence.
posted by Green With You at 10:25 AM on June 28, 2017 [25 favorites]
No it isn't.
See, I can state things authoritatively too without any reasoning or evidence.
posted by Green With You at 10:25 AM on June 28, 2017 [25 favorites]
For what it's worth, the Time cover for March 1st, 2009 that says: The "Apprentice" is a television smash! (quotation marks in the original) is dated with the season debut of Celebrity Apprentice. Celebrity Apprentice came in third place in its time slot with 8.8 million viewers behind Jesse Stone: On Thin Ice (15.2 million), and Brothers and Sisters (12 million). For the first hour, it was third place out of four major networks. For the second hour, after Fox signed off, it was third out of three. I went over his ratings extensively for a blog post, here, if you are interested.
It must be such a depressing job having to suck up to Trump's ego and make these.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 10:28 AM on June 28, 2017 [12 favorites]
It must be such a depressing job having to suck up to Trump's ego and make these.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 10:28 AM on June 28, 2017 [12 favorites]
The thing is, eventually the right turns on working class white people. "First they came for..." is always the logic. When there's no more profits to extract from people of color, or when they have secured power independent of working class white people, then those people will be prison/cannon/graveyard fodder too. And after them, the next-weakest.
This is why, for instance, you do see police killings of working class white people - if those people are poor enough or disreputable enough or mentally ill enough, they get similar treatment to POC.
What the right understands and hides from working class white people is that to them racism is more a strategy than an ideology. It's an ideology, don't get me wrong - but they're willing to compromise if beating up on white people or allying with certain POC gets them more power/money. Whereas for low information racist white voters, it's the opposite - an ideology to hold onto to the death, even when it's self-destructive.
So yeah, I think we're in what will be a transitional moment if we can't get the right out of power. Rightwing policies are going to screw white working class people (even more than they're screwed already) and what do you do when you have a large population that's getting screwed? Police them, jail them, make them sick, create a narrative about how it's their own fault - keep them down so that they can't fight back. What we'll see (and I think we've already seen a few moves in this direction from conservative publications) will be a "good" (middle class or richer) whites versus "bad" whites narrative, with the "bad" whites cast as addicts and thugs and useless eaters. (This is already a narrative in US culture, but I expect it to be used far more actively by the right - that is, if we can't get them out of power.)
posted by Frowner at 10:29 AM on June 28, 2017 [26 favorites]
This is why, for instance, you do see police killings of working class white people - if those people are poor enough or disreputable enough or mentally ill enough, they get similar treatment to POC.
What the right understands and hides from working class white people is that to them racism is more a strategy than an ideology. It's an ideology, don't get me wrong - but they're willing to compromise if beating up on white people or allying with certain POC gets them more power/money. Whereas for low information racist white voters, it's the opposite - an ideology to hold onto to the death, even when it's self-destructive.
So yeah, I think we're in what will be a transitional moment if we can't get the right out of power. Rightwing policies are going to screw white working class people (even more than they're screwed already) and what do you do when you have a large population that's getting screwed? Police them, jail them, make them sick, create a narrative about how it's their own fault - keep them down so that they can't fight back. What we'll see (and I think we've already seen a few moves in this direction from conservative publications) will be a "good" (middle class or richer) whites versus "bad" whites narrative, with the "bad" whites cast as addicts and thugs and useless eaters. (This is already a narrative in US culture, but I expect it to be used far more actively by the right - that is, if we can't get them out of power.)
posted by Frowner at 10:29 AM on June 28, 2017 [26 favorites]
Time's TV critic at the time (James Poniewozik, now at the New York Times) would like you to know: "if I had called The Apprentice's ratings a "smash" in 2009, I would've had to resign in disgrace."
posted by zachlipton at 10:41 AM on June 28, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 10:41 AM on June 28, 2017 [18 favorites]
There's nothing new about the sheer hateful malice of the Republicans under Trump. Maybe the volume is a bit louder, or they don't think they need to keep it quite so masked, but hate for anyone who isn't part of their tribe has been the foundation of Republicanism at least since Nixon.
sotonohito's comment yesterday reminded me that when Lincoln said "with malice toward none, with charity to all," he was talking about people who had actually committed treason to the United States.
Now the malicious and the traitors are on the same side.
posted by Gelatin at 10:43 AM on June 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
sotonohito's comment yesterday reminded me that when Lincoln said "with malice toward none, with charity to all," he was talking about people who had actually committed treason to the United States.
Now the malicious and the traitors are on the same side.
posted by Gelatin at 10:43 AM on June 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
On DT visiting France on Bastille Day...
that is my birthday.
that is all.
posted by waitangi at 10:46 AM on June 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
that is my birthday.
that is all.
posted by waitangi at 10:46 AM on June 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
Behind the Scenes of Disney's Donald Trump 'Hall of Presidents' Drama
Vice has retracted this story (and their previous story on the same subject), citing factual errors and problems with the sourcing. So I suspect we're going to be getting a lot of "negative stories about Trump keep getting retracted" trend pieces now.
posted by zachlipton at 10:47 AM on June 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
Vice has retracted this story (and their previous story on the same subject), citing factual errors and problems with the sourcing. So I suspect we're going to be getting a lot of "negative stories about Trump keep getting retracted" trend pieces now.
posted by zachlipton at 10:47 AM on June 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
I thought it had been posted in this thread, but now can't find any mention of the new Ten "screw separation of church and state" Commandments monument on the grounds of the Arkansas state capitol building.
Anyway, some national treasure by the name of Michael Reed has mowed it down with his car (and Facebook Live'd himself doing it.)
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:55 AM on June 28, 2017 [35 favorites]
Anyway, some national treasure by the name of Michael Reed has mowed it down with his car (and Facebook Live'd himself doing it.)
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:55 AM on June 28, 2017 [35 favorites]
> Vice has retracted this story (and their previous story on the same subject), citing factual errors and problems with the sourcing. So I suspect we're going to be getting a lot of "negative stories about Trump keep getting retracted" trend pieces now.
All Media Mistakes Are in One Direction, If You Ignore All of the Mistakes That Aren’t
posted by tonycpsu at 10:55 AM on June 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
All Media Mistakes Are in One Direction, If You Ignore All of the Mistakes That Aren’t
posted by tonycpsu at 10:55 AM on June 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
New article from Josh Marshall at TPM: Safety in Numbers
As Josh notes, Collins and Heller have been much more resistant to voting Yes, so Murkowski and Capito seem like really excellent to get your Senators to pressure into firmer stances for No.
Everyone who helps gets this bill passed--the Senators, their staffers, RNC members, advertising agencies, outside lobbying groups, and whoever else must know that we will blame them unceasingly for sentencing millions of Americans to premature deaths.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 11:05 AM on June 28, 2017 [24 favorites]
As we’ve discussed, yesterday’s defeat is only a temporary one. Making this happen is now considerably harder for McConnell. But he and the Senate leadership are going to do everything possible to make it happen in July and they have a good shot at doing so, especially if they can find a let up in the public protests against Trumpcare. The key question now is whether opponents of Trumpcare will be able to make the most of those senators now running for cover and saying they were never going to support the bill. The key questions are: Why? What level of coverage loss would be acceptable? 12 million losing their coverage as opposed to 15 million? Over three years as opposed to next year.Josh raises good points--this move is indeed a temporary stay intended to try and let some of the pressure out of public protests against this horror. All of these senators are trying to get to a Yes vote, and if opponents of the legislation let up, Collins, Murkowski, Heller, and Capito will crumble. It is crucial to make them answer what level of coverage losses are acceptable and to hold them accountable for any lessening of coverage.
This is still a very close run thing. But this is the moment to do everything possible to put obstacles in the way of Senate Republicans trying to make their way back to McConnell after running for cover now.
As Josh notes, Collins and Heller have been much more resistant to voting Yes, so Murkowski and Capito seem like really excellent to get your Senators to pressure into firmer stances for No.
Everyone who helps gets this bill passed--the Senators, their staffers, RNC members, advertising agencies, outside lobbying groups, and whoever else must know that we will blame them unceasingly for sentencing millions of Americans to premature deaths.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 11:05 AM on June 28, 2017 [24 favorites]
On DT visiting France on Bastille Day...
"I love what you did with the planes and the red, white, and blue smoke trails for my visit. Very patriotic."
posted by Talez at 11:18 AM on June 28, 2017 [26 favorites]
"I love what you did with the planes and the red, white, and blue smoke trails for my visit. Very patriotic."
posted by Talez at 11:18 AM on June 28, 2017 [26 favorites]
So... just a thought that's been noodling around in the back of my head about this "opioid crisis" or "opioid epidemic" that is a major reason why the Medicaid expansion is still alive (for now)
Just don't hold your breath waiting for help from the White House, White House opioid crisis commission misses due date for preliminary report:
posted by peeedro at 11:26 AM on June 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
Just don't hold your breath waiting for help from the White House, White House opioid crisis commission misses due date for preliminary report:
President Trump’s commission on the opioid crisis has missed its first deadline.To paraphrase Reagan, the most reassuring words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I can't be bothered with your problems.
The newly created panel met for the first time on June 16, just 11 days before the White House’s ambitious due date for a preliminary report meant to outline federal strategies to curb the epidemic.
An executive order that established the commission had set a 90-day deadline for the completion of that document. The deadline will come and go without a report being filed, and a commission teleconference originally scheduled for Monday evening has been rescheduled for July 17.
posted by peeedro at 11:26 AM on June 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
I wonder how many of these "Independents" are people like me, who call themselves independent because they're further left than the Democratic establishment, but are actually registered Democrats and reliably vote for Democratic candidates.
There are two real answers there.
About a third of people who identify as independent are, like you, "leaners" who are reliable Democratic voters who won't admit that they're Democrats or don't feel like Democrats for whatever reason. Another third are closet Republicans, and the remaining third are a mix of pure independents and apoliticals.
Part the second: I don't have any information handy about the proportion of independents who are to the left of the Democrats, but in general leaners are not very different from weak partisans, so probably the distribution of ideology among Democratic leaners is similar to the distribution for weak partisans. Which would make the number of people who self-ID as independent because they're too commie to be Democrats quite small.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:31 AM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
There are two real answers there.
About a third of people who identify as independent are, like you, "leaners" who are reliable Democratic voters who won't admit that they're Democrats or don't feel like Democrats for whatever reason. Another third are closet Republicans, and the remaining third are a mix of pure independents and apoliticals.
Part the second: I don't have any information handy about the proportion of independents who are to the left of the Democrats, but in general leaners are not very different from weak partisans, so probably the distribution of ideology among Democratic leaners is similar to the distribution for weak partisans. Which would make the number of people who self-ID as independent because they're too commie to be Democrats quite small.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:31 AM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
If you have a moment, spare a tear for Chris Collins, a Republican representative from New York, who learned the hard way that all the insider trading in the world won't help you if your millions are invested in a company whose product doesn't work. It looks like a few other Republicans got burned, too, though none as badly as Collins.
posted by Copronymus at 11:33 AM on June 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Copronymus at 11:33 AM on June 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
Anyway, some national treasure by the name of Michael Reed has mowed it down with his car (and Facebook Live'd himself doing it.)
If you read the article this is not the first time Michael has done this. It's his thing.
posted by scalefree at 11:40 AM on June 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
If you read the article this is not the first time Michael has done this. It's his thing.
posted by scalefree at 11:40 AM on June 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
Not all heroes wear capes.
posted by emjaybee at 11:45 AM on June 28, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 11:45 AM on June 28, 2017 [16 favorites]
What we'll see (and I think we've already seen a few moves in this direction from conservative publications) will be a "good" (middle class or richer) whites versus "bad" whites narrative, with the "bad" whites cast as addicts and thugs and useless eaters. (This is already a narrative in US culture, but I expect it to be used far more actively by the right - that is, if we can't get them out of power.)
As you say, we already have this. And as long as people of color are treated worse in some way than those "bad" whites, a critical portion of white people -- maybe even a majority -- will swallow the narrative that some white people are just bad. Hell, even some of those allegedly "bad" white people will swallow it if they can still look down on people of color.
See also poor whites who could never possibly own a slave still fighting and dying to support the Confederacy.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:45 AM on June 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
As you say, we already have this. And as long as people of color are treated worse in some way than those "bad" whites, a critical portion of white people -- maybe even a majority -- will swallow the narrative that some white people are just bad. Hell, even some of those allegedly "bad" white people will swallow it if they can still look down on people of color.
See also poor whites who could never possibly own a slave still fighting and dying to support the Confederacy.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:45 AM on June 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Regarding that Thiessen piece: is anyone compiling the growing body of writing by conservative writers taking a "holy shit, everything the liberals have been saying about conservatives is true" stance?
I remember during the campaign, after the grab 'em by the pussy tape had been released, reading and circulating a piece by a right-wing woman that was absolutely on fire about conservative men selling their female counterparts down the river. It was full of bitter realization that everything liberals had been critiquing was true--and anger and shame that right wing women had been defending right wing men about those charges, only to be so easily betrayed.
I'm sure there must be more. Anyone know if there's a reading list?
posted by Sublimity at 11:54 AM on June 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
I remember during the campaign, after the grab 'em by the pussy tape had been released, reading and circulating a piece by a right-wing woman that was absolutely on fire about conservative men selling their female counterparts down the river. It was full of bitter realization that everything liberals had been critiquing was true--and anger and shame that right wing women had been defending right wing men about those charges, only to be so easily betrayed.
I'm sure there must be more. Anyone know if there's a reading list?
posted by Sublimity at 11:54 AM on June 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
While we're on the subject, we should be very careful that the call about the bad kind of white people is not coming from inside the house, as it were.
posted by The Gaffer at 11:55 AM on June 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by The Gaffer at 11:55 AM on June 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Kyle Griffin: Trump has posted the Project Veritas CNN videos on his official Instagram page.
posted by PenDevil at 11:55 AM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by PenDevil at 11:55 AM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Here's a good analysis that extrapolates the Medicaid cuts out past the 10-year budget window CBO uses. What this makes crystal clear is that the cuts aren't just to the Medicaid expansion, they are to traditional Medicaid: the elderly, the disabled, children, and the poor, and they get quite steep the farther in the future you go. It includes a handy chart showing the holes that will be blown in every state budget in 10 years.
The Quinnipiac poll is fun. Voters disapprove of BCRA 58-16, but take a look at this graph of the subgroups. Yeah, more Republicans approve, but besides that, they've managed to find a bill that unites young people, old people, men, women, more educated, less educated, etc... in hatred.
I needed a good laugh this morning, and we have Louise Mensch to thank for it: "Any kind of diagnosis on the web is illegal and I am reporting her to HIPPA today." No word on whether the Marshal of the Supreme Court is involved or how on earth you report a person to a law.
posted by zachlipton at 11:56 AM on June 28, 2017 [18 favorites]
The Quinnipiac poll is fun. Voters disapprove of BCRA 58-16, but take a look at this graph of the subgroups. Yeah, more Republicans approve, but besides that, they've managed to find a bill that unites young people, old people, men, women, more educated, less educated, etc... in hatred.
I needed a good laugh this morning, and we have Louise Mensch to thank for it: "Any kind of diagnosis on the web is illegal and I am reporting her to HIPPA today." No word on whether the Marshal of the Supreme Court is involved or how on earth you report a person to a law.
posted by zachlipton at 11:56 AM on June 28, 2017 [18 favorites]
Then there's that moment when the president of the US treats an international reporter like a goddamn pageant contestant.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 11:57 AM on June 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 11:57 AM on June 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
God damnit! It's HIPAA! Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act! One P. Two As. That drives me crazy.
Thank you for allowing me to vent. It really drives me nuts.
posted by Sophie1 at 11:59 AM on June 28, 2017 [33 favorites]
Thank you for allowing me to vent. It really drives me nuts.
posted by Sophie1 at 11:59 AM on June 28, 2017 [33 favorites]
A hippa is a female hippo.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:00 PM on June 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:00 PM on June 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
And when you're a president, they let you do it.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:00 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by kirkaracha at 12:00 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
So, I'd like to air a small peeve of mine:
I say this not to call out mightygodking - Chris seems like a good dude, and I've found him to be a pretty astute analyst of US and Canadian politics - but to point out something I've seen a lot of in this threads: misplaced certitude. Even in normal times, nobody knows for sure what's going to happen in politics above the most trivial level. And as we've seen over the last year plus, these are not normal times. You can't be sure about anything with the Norm Breaker-in-Chief around.
So, please: If you find yourself writing that something "will happen" or "is certain", please consider a re-write? Thanks.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:01 PM on June 28, 2017 [46 favorites]
1.) Trump will fire Mueller, probably within the next two weeks,The astute will notice that it is now more than two weeks, and Mueller is still beavering away.
and
2.) The GOP will do nothing about it.
[...]
Two weeks at the most. Count on it.
posted by mightygodking at 11:46 AM on June 13
I say this not to call out mightygodking - Chris seems like a good dude, and I've found him to be a pretty astute analyst of US and Canadian politics - but to point out something I've seen a lot of in this threads: misplaced certitude. Even in normal times, nobody knows for sure what's going to happen in politics above the most trivial level. And as we've seen over the last year plus, these are not normal times. You can't be sure about anything with the Norm Breaker-in-Chief around.
So, please: If you find yourself writing that something "will happen" or "is certain", please consider a re-write? Thanks.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:01 PM on June 28, 2017 [46 favorites]
how on earth you report a person to a law
First you must summon HIPAA. This is done by saying "HIPAA" five times into a mirror hanging in a doctor's office. Then, once HIPAA manifests in our dimension, you need to hand over your ID and insurance card so HIPAA can make a copy of it for recordkeeping. After that it's all paperwork, blood sacrifice, and blood drawing.
posted by Servo5678 at 12:01 PM on June 28, 2017 [29 favorites]
First you must summon HIPAA. This is done by saying "HIPAA" five times into a mirror hanging in a doctor's office. Then, once HIPAA manifests in our dimension, you need to hand over your ID and insurance card so HIPAA can make a copy of it for recordkeeping. After that it's all paperwork, blood sacrifice, and blood drawing.
posted by Servo5678 at 12:01 PM on June 28, 2017 [29 favorites]
To be fair to mightygodking, he could have meant "two weeks" in the Trump sense.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 12:04 PM on June 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 12:04 PM on June 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
First you must summon HIPPA. This is done by saying "HIPPA" five times into a mirror hanging in a doctor's office. Then, once HIPPA manifests in our dimension,
*kaaboom*
posted by Sophie1 at 12:04 PM on June 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
*kaaboom*
posted by Sophie1 at 12:04 PM on June 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
There has never in the history of the US been a measure to limit compensation and flexibility for elected representatives that didn't have an unpleasant distorting effect on who ends up in those jobs.
I'm gonna needs some examples of this.
I'm glad you asked for examples and not proof, since it would be impossible to prove such a sweeping statement :) If there's a counter-example I haven't seen it, but there's a few very easy ways to show how this distorts the candidates in very classist ways.
There's a big similarity between these low paid rep positions and the trouble with unpaid internships. Take Virginia for example, where annual pay is below $18,000 per year. That's not nothing money, but it's the same for folks in Martinsville as it is in Arlington. This site says housing is 224% higher in Arlington, with general COL being 72% higher.
The usual pushback on this in VA is oh, it's just a 60 day or 30 day session every year (toggled on even/odd years) with some possibility of extended sessions. There's other official business meetings here and there, and on any of those or in-session days there's a per diem. But the per diem is $200 (slightly less for Dels actually; why this is diff between Delegates and Senators ¯\_(ツ)_/¯) and you'll be lucky to get a $99 hotel. If you end the day with money left it's because you skipped the $1.25 coke.
There's a pretty comprehensive article about this and some of the dangers here, but I don't think you need a hand holding to know that needing to be able to take 1 or 2 months off a year, even if you never talk to a constituent those other days, limits the number of people who can be in this gig and what sorts of occupations they can be in the rest of the time. So, like those internships, there's this whole swath of people who just never go after it because they can't. You end up with a legislating body making decisions about all walks of life when they're disproportionately realtors and lawyers.
And, following the internship parallel, it also means that when these folks leave office with the first-hand experience of how the sausage is made, they're a rare commodity who are in demand but they are all very similar in this way. So it's not even just who is in the gig, but who continues to shape things later.
I am neither a chucklehead nor a know-nothing. I will never ever make $174,000 in a year. The median household income in the US is still $55,775. To an awful lot of us, including those of us with PhDs, getting elected to Congress and making that salary would basically be like winning the lottery.
Yeah man, why should that union dude get a decent retirement plan when mine is shit? Clearly the solution is to tear that down too.
I want government positions to attract good people. That means it needs to be both a good wage with good benefits such that they can live on it without needing to be doing a side job, which leads to certain types of professionals dominating the chambers, and it needs to pay well enough that a big chunk of the best candidates can't easily pick another field where they'll earn ten times as much.
You got axes to grind with capitalism? Me too. Let's fix those in their right place rather than driving out big chunks of people from this job. Because if the only people who will actually do the job are the fanatics... I don't like our odds of getting more benign altruists than rabid extremists.
posted by phearlez at 12:10 PM on June 28, 2017 [32 favorites]
I'm gonna needs some examples of this.
I'm glad you asked for examples and not proof, since it would be impossible to prove such a sweeping statement :) If there's a counter-example I haven't seen it, but there's a few very easy ways to show how this distorts the candidates in very classist ways.
There's a big similarity between these low paid rep positions and the trouble with unpaid internships. Take Virginia for example, where annual pay is below $18,000 per year. That's not nothing money, but it's the same for folks in Martinsville as it is in Arlington. This site says housing is 224% higher in Arlington, with general COL being 72% higher.
The usual pushback on this in VA is oh, it's just a 60 day or 30 day session every year (toggled on even/odd years) with some possibility of extended sessions. There's other official business meetings here and there, and on any of those or in-session days there's a per diem. But the per diem is $200 (slightly less for Dels actually; why this is diff between Delegates and Senators ¯\_(ツ)_/¯) and you'll be lucky to get a $99 hotel. If you end the day with money left it's because you skipped the $1.25 coke.
There's a pretty comprehensive article about this and some of the dangers here, but I don't think you need a hand holding to know that needing to be able to take 1 or 2 months off a year, even if you never talk to a constituent those other days, limits the number of people who can be in this gig and what sorts of occupations they can be in the rest of the time. So, like those internships, there's this whole swath of people who just never go after it because they can't. You end up with a legislating body making decisions about all walks of life when they're disproportionately realtors and lawyers.
And, following the internship parallel, it also means that when these folks leave office with the first-hand experience of how the sausage is made, they're a rare commodity who are in demand but they are all very similar in this way. So it's not even just who is in the gig, but who continues to shape things later.
I am neither a chucklehead nor a know-nothing. I will never ever make $174,000 in a year. The median household income in the US is still $55,775. To an awful lot of us, including those of us with PhDs, getting elected to Congress and making that salary would basically be like winning the lottery.
Yeah man, why should that union dude get a decent retirement plan when mine is shit? Clearly the solution is to tear that down too.
I want government positions to attract good people. That means it needs to be both a good wage with good benefits such that they can live on it without needing to be doing a side job, which leads to certain types of professionals dominating the chambers, and it needs to pay well enough that a big chunk of the best candidates can't easily pick another field where they'll earn ten times as much.
You got axes to grind with capitalism? Me too. Let's fix those in their right place rather than driving out big chunks of people from this job. Because if the only people who will actually do the job are the fanatics... I don't like our odds of getting more benign altruists than rabid extremists.
posted by phearlez at 12:10 PM on June 28, 2017 [32 favorites]
phearlez: "I want government positions to attract good people. That means it needs to be both a good wage with good benefits such that they can live on it without needing to be doing a side job, which leads to certain types of professionals dominating the chambers, and it needs to pay well enough that a big chunk of the best candidates can't easily pick another field where they'll earn ten times as much."
So your contention is that $174k congressional salary and all the attendant benefits is not "a good wage with good benefits such that they can live on it without needing to be doing a side job"?
posted by TypographicalError at 12:25 PM on June 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
So your contention is that $174k congressional salary and all the attendant benefits is not "a good wage with good benefits such that they can live on it without needing to be doing a side job"?
posted by TypographicalError at 12:25 PM on June 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
Hold my Cognac....
- monsieur president, what kind of cognac is this?
- it's hennessey and coke, what other kind is there?
- would monsieur president like a swisher with that?
posted by pyramid termite at 12:38 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
- monsieur president, what kind of cognac is this?
- it's hennessey and coke, what other kind is there?
- would monsieur president like a swisher with that?
posted by pyramid termite at 12:38 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
This focus on 174k is ridiculous. Every member of congress is a millionaire, or will be shortly, because of legalized bribery, insider trading and instant admission into the lifetime six digit welfare world of lobbying as soon as they leave. They also get a pension no matter how little time they served. They're not poor. They're not going there for the salary, and increasing it would have no effect on the "talent" attracted whatsoever. They don't need a stipend. Consider the messager here, Jason Chaffetz.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:38 PM on June 28, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:38 PM on June 28, 2017 [19 favorites]
I'm glad you asked for examples and not proof
I was waiting for the examples of a 'measure to limit compensation and flexibility for elected representatives that didn't have an unpleasant distorting effect on who ends up in those jobs.'
Still waiting, actually.
posted by rc3spencer at 12:44 PM on June 28, 2017
I was waiting for the examples of a 'measure to limit compensation and flexibility for elected representatives that didn't have an unpleasant distorting effect on who ends up in those jobs.'
Still waiting, actually.
posted by rc3spencer at 12:44 PM on June 28, 2017
So, please: If you find yourself writing that something "will happen" or "is certain", please consider a re-write? Thanks.
Or, you know, stick it on a cake. And share it with your online friends!
posted by orrnyereg at 12:45 PM on June 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
Or, you know, stick it on a cake. And share it with your online friends!
posted by orrnyereg at 12:45 PM on June 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
They're not all millionaires, your understanding of the pension system is highly flawed (and, again, see above "why should that union person get those benefits when I don't") AND you're wrong about how long they need to serve.
As far as the messenger, eh, broken clocks still get to be wrong and Hitler liked dogs.
If you want to defend the lack of a housing stipend because you think it should just be considered part of the salary, okay, I think you're wrong but that's a position you can take. I look at it from the standpoint that no other white collar job in the world would expect you to be on the road 3/5 of the year and not compensate you for the cost of being there, personally.
Mostly I was responding to hostile nonsense like "I am completely in favor of treating Congress like college freshmen and requiring they live on-campus, in dorms, and pay for a meal plan and eat in the cafeteria." Hey let's make this job really shitty fanfic is not a way to run a professional government.
Still waiting, actually.
You don't think the 18k a year compensation for VA delegates is an example? Then you can decide I am wrong. I think that's clearly a case where the compensation has been lowered obviously below what is appropriate for the gig and the 1-2 months of legislative time clearly prevents many people from taking the job.
posted by phearlez at 12:47 PM on June 28, 2017 [12 favorites]
As far as the messenger, eh, broken clocks still get to be wrong and Hitler liked dogs.
If you want to defend the lack of a housing stipend because you think it should just be considered part of the salary, okay, I think you're wrong but that's a position you can take. I look at it from the standpoint that no other white collar job in the world would expect you to be on the road 3/5 of the year and not compensate you for the cost of being there, personally.
Mostly I was responding to hostile nonsense like "I am completely in favor of treating Congress like college freshmen and requiring they live on-campus, in dorms, and pay for a meal plan and eat in the cafeteria." Hey let's make this job really shitty fanfic is not a way to run a professional government.
Still waiting, actually.
You don't think the 18k a year compensation for VA delegates is an example? Then you can decide I am wrong. I think that's clearly a case where the compensation has been lowered obviously below what is appropriate for the gig and the 1-2 months of legislative time clearly prevents many people from taking the job.
posted by phearlez at 12:47 PM on June 28, 2017 [12 favorites]
You don't think the 18k a year compensation for VA delegates is an example?
The problem in VA is probably the lack of limits on donations and graft (as pointed out in your linked article, and referenced by the many quotes therein). Lots of variables there, and self admitted. (encouraged it seems?)
I've just never heard of any measure to limit representatives' compensation ('flexible' included) ever having been tried. Guess 'I'll search on my own.
posted by rc3spencer at 12:57 PM on June 28, 2017
The problem in VA is probably the lack of limits on donations and graft (as pointed out in your linked article, and referenced by the many quotes therein). Lots of variables there, and self admitted. (encouraged it seems?)
I've just never heard of any measure to limit representatives' compensation ('flexible' included) ever having been tried. Guess 'I'll search on my own.
posted by rc3spencer at 12:57 PM on June 28, 2017
Both sides of the compensation debate make good points. I, for one, would be satisfied if elected officials received the same guaranteed basic livable income as every American citizen.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:04 PM on June 28, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:04 PM on June 28, 2017 [17 favorites]
National Treasure Charles P. Pierce of Esquire: Even if Trumpcare Fails, They'll Blame Democrats
The cynicism on display here is breathtaking. Republican sabotage makes the premiums go up. Then the Republicans put together a bill that partially repairs the sabotage for long enough that they can boast—during the 2018 midterms, let's say—that they brought down premiums. Then, of course, after the dust clears after the election, the patchwork repairs disappear and everybody gets screwed so that billionaires get their tax cut, which was the whole point of this exercise in the first place.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:07 PM on June 28, 2017 [19 favorites]
The cynicism on display here is breathtaking. Republican sabotage makes the premiums go up. Then the Republicans put together a bill that partially repairs the sabotage for long enough that they can boast—during the 2018 midterms, let's say—that they brought down premiums. Then, of course, after the dust clears after the election, the patchwork repairs disappear and everybody gets screwed so that billionaires get their tax cut, which was the whole point of this exercise in the first place.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:07 PM on June 28, 2017 [19 favorites]
The problem in VA is probably the lack of limits on donations and graft
I think thinking of it as a single problem is wrong. VA unquestionably has a problem with this "oh we'll just trust everyone" nonsense, but creating a situation that strongly encourages graft is bad even if you fight it when it happens. Or, as I pointed out, it's a problem even if nobody does any sleazy money stuff because you've narrowed the field of people who can do the job to this small and mostly privileged group of folks. I don't want to be governed exclusively by the people who have jobs where they can just stop doing them for months at a time.
I've just never heard of any measure to limit representatives' compensation
Not keeping the compensation up with the market and reflective of what the job entails (year round constituent support, a very different legal/legislation landscape than long ago, etc) is a limit on their compensation. Just like altering the rate medicare payments increase such that they no longer keep up with inflation is a limit.
posted by phearlez at 1:12 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
I think thinking of it as a single problem is wrong. VA unquestionably has a problem with this "oh we'll just trust everyone" nonsense, but creating a situation that strongly encourages graft is bad even if you fight it when it happens. Or, as I pointed out, it's a problem even if nobody does any sleazy money stuff because you've narrowed the field of people who can do the job to this small and mostly privileged group of folks. I don't want to be governed exclusively by the people who have jobs where they can just stop doing them for months at a time.
I've just never heard of any measure to limit representatives' compensation
Not keeping the compensation up with the market and reflective of what the job entails (year round constituent support, a very different legal/legislation landscape than long ago, etc) is a limit on their compensation. Just like altering the rate medicare payments increase such that they no longer keep up with inflation is a limit.
posted by phearlez at 1:12 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Even if [Insert Literally Anything Here] Fails, They'll Blame Democrats
posted by Copronymus at 1:12 PM on June 28, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by Copronymus at 1:12 PM on June 28, 2017 [23 favorites]
Jon Swain, The Guardian: Authorities to investigate Jay Sekulow nonprofit after 'troubling' revelations
“Islamic extremists are headed in your direction, and you are most likely the main target,” Sekulow himself told people in a recorded message used in fundraising calls during 2011.
“Unbelievably, through Obamacare, Planned Parenthood could run a healthcare clinic in your child’s or grandchild’s middle school or high school and receive federal tax dollars to do it”.
The total lack of shame it apparently requires to get ahead in the world of Christian activism is astounding. I could never bring myself to call elderly folks and badger them for money by claiming that the Muslims and abortions are all coming FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE!
posted by mcdoublewide at 1:21 PM on June 28, 2017 [26 favorites]
“Islamic extremists are headed in your direction, and you are most likely the main target,” Sekulow himself told people in a recorded message used in fundraising calls during 2011.
“Unbelievably, through Obamacare, Planned Parenthood could run a healthcare clinic in your child’s or grandchild’s middle school or high school and receive federal tax dollars to do it”.
The total lack of shame it apparently requires to get ahead in the world of Christian activism is astounding. I could never bring myself to call elderly folks and badger them for money by claiming that the Muslims and abortions are all coming FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE!
posted by mcdoublewide at 1:21 PM on June 28, 2017 [26 favorites]
I thought it had been posted in this thread, but now can't find any mention of the new Ten "screw separation of church and state" Commandments monument on the grounds of the Arkansas state capitol building.
Little Rock's local alt-weekly, the Arkansas Times, is doing a pretty good job of covering this story (and one state senator's response).
Highlight from the comments: "6' tall x 4' wide x 8" thick x 6000 lbs. Anchored 2" (+-) into concrete with what appears to be epoxied bolts. The State of Arkansas should thank the guy for knocking it down in the early morning with no one around before a gust of wind blew it over and maybe killed some innocent bystander."
posted by box at 1:22 PM on June 28, 2017 [34 favorites]
Little Rock's local alt-weekly, the Arkansas Times, is doing a pretty good job of covering this story (and one state senator's response).
Highlight from the comments: "6' tall x 4' wide x 8" thick x 6000 lbs. Anchored 2" (+-) into concrete with what appears to be epoxied bolts. The State of Arkansas should thank the guy for knocking it down in the early morning with no one around before a gust of wind blew it over and maybe killed some innocent bystander."
posted by box at 1:22 PM on June 28, 2017 [34 favorites]
CNN Officials struggle to convince Trump that Russia remains a threat
the President's muted interest in election interference stands in stark contrast to the collusion investigation, which has consumed his attention. Trump takes questions about Russia personally, sources said, because he sees them as an effort to undermine the legitimacy of his presidency.posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:26 PM on June 28, 2017 [25 favorites]
"He thinks one equates with the other," one Republican congressional source said. "He can't admit anything that may taint his election. He is more hung up on how it affected the election outcome than what Russia did."
Rightwing talking point I'm seeing on Twitter: saying "health care is a right" means you want doctors to be your slaves.
Except for the part where they get paid I guess.
posted by emjaybee at 1:26 PM on June 28, 2017 [25 favorites]
Except for the part where they get paid I guess.
posted by emjaybee at 1:26 PM on June 28, 2017 [25 favorites]
Authorities to investigate Jay Sekulow nonprofit after 'troubling' revelations
It is 100% grifters all the way down.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:28 PM on June 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
It is 100% grifters all the way down.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:28 PM on June 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
and one state senator's response
Ah, Rapert. A man whose hide is even thinner than his goatee. A man who once told a colleague she was "not Christian enough" because she didn't want to support renowned WWJD exemplar Donald Trump. A man who I'm frankly surprised is wearing shoes with laces.
posted by middleclasstool at 1:33 PM on June 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
Ah, Rapert. A man whose hide is even thinner than his goatee. A man who once told a colleague she was "not Christian enough" because she didn't want to support renowned WWJD exemplar Donald Trump. A man who I'm frankly surprised is wearing shoes with laces.
posted by middleclasstool at 1:33 PM on June 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
just as a note to people cranky about congressional compensation: if you're arguing for reduced pay for congressmembers, you're adopting a position that even You Can't Tip a Buick considers counterproductive. Like if you wanna do it, go ahead, but adjust yourself to the reality where you're more unreasonable than I am.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:40 PM on June 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:40 PM on June 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
Jennifer Rubin, WaPo: 20 reasons the GOP crashed and burned on health care
Republicans’ inability to pass health-care legislation comes as no surprise to those who have watched the party descend into know-nothingism. They hope to get by on a mixture of brain-numbing catchphrases designed to dupe the masses and far-right ideology at odds with the views of Americans, even those within the GOP. Fortunately, that’s not a recipe for successful governance. Let’s recall 20 reasons the GOP’s health-care effort went down in flames.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:42 PM on June 28, 2017 [12 favorites]
Even if [Insert Literally Anything Here] Fails, They'll Blame Democrats
Like the time when some Republican dude who shall not be named blamed Obama for not doing enough about Russian hacking when he had at the time explicitly called on Russia to Hack Her Emails?
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:43 PM on June 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
Like the time when some Republican dude who shall not be named blamed Obama for not doing enough about Russian hacking when he had at the time explicitly called on Russia to Hack Her Emails?
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:43 PM on June 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
Jennifer Rubin, WaPo: 20 reasons the GOP crashed and burned on health care
1 Reason the GOP crashed and burned on health care: The Democrats stole their only half reasonable idea.
posted by Talez at 1:44 PM on June 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
1 Reason the GOP crashed and burned on health care: The Democrats stole their only half reasonable idea.
posted by Talez at 1:44 PM on June 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
Seeing the Trump administration attack CNN really makes me want to defend them, but then they go and do this:
Chris Cillizza, who bundled up his hot-takes and left The Washington Post for CNN this year, is getting his own “brand.”posted by tonycpsu at 1:47 PM on June 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
According to a press release published by CNN Politics, the news organization is launching ‘The Point with Chris Cillizza,” described as a “multiplatform brand capturing analysis of the day’s news.”
What platforms do we get more Cillizza on, you ask with fevered anticipation: “daily columns, on-air analysis, an evening newsletter, podcast, and the launch of trivia night events in Washington, DC.,” per the statement.
Rightwing talking point I'm seeing on Twitter: saying "health care is a right" means you want doctors to be your slaves.
First off, as mentioned except for the "it's a voluntary profession and they get paid" part. But second, I guess Republicans consider the 6th Amendment slavery, then. Funny how Gideon v. Wainwright didn't result in a mass exodus from the profession. If anything the chief failing of the public defender system is that the right to (competent) counsel isn't strong enough.
posted by jedicus at 1:48 PM on June 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
First off, as mentioned except for the "it's a voluntary profession and they get paid" part. But second, I guess Republicans consider the 6th Amendment slavery, then. Funny how Gideon v. Wainwright didn't result in a mass exodus from the profession. If anything the chief failing of the public defender system is that the right to (competent) counsel isn't strong enough.
posted by jedicus at 1:48 PM on June 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
A man who I'm frankly surprised is wearing shoes with laces.
Because he's such a loafer?
posted by bardophile at 1:54 PM on June 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
Because he's such a loafer?
posted by bardophile at 1:54 PM on June 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
Chris Cillizza
Another commentator for the koi pond
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:01 PM on June 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Another commentator for the koi pond
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:01 PM on June 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
“Islamic extremists are headed in your direction, and you are most likely the main target,” Sekulow himself told people in a recorded message used in fundraising calls during 2011.
If you record a message like that, you're fully aware that you're a bad person, right? Or is it possible to have a worldview so convoluted that you somehow are able to convince yourself that you just did a good thing?
posted by diogenes at 2:01 PM on June 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
If you record a message like that, you're fully aware that you're a bad person, right? Or is it possible to have a worldview so convoluted that you somehow are able to convince yourself that you just did a good thing?
posted by diogenes at 2:01 PM on June 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
Jennifer Rubin, WaPo: 20 reasons the GOP crashed and burned on health care......13. They should have done infrastructure first.
As readers of this page know, Trump's infrastructure "plan" is also a scam.
posted by thelonius at 2:01 PM on June 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
As readers of this page know, Trump's infrastructure "plan" is also a scam.
posted by thelonius at 2:01 PM on June 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
Josh Barro: The GOP health bill is doomed to toxic unpopularity, no matter how it's changed (via)
One of the stupidest aspects of Republican healthcare rhetoric is the idea that consumers want to take charge of their own care by paying routine expenses from special, tax-advantaged accounts.posted by tonycpsu at 2:08 PM on June 28, 2017 [60 favorites]
These accounts have been gradually foisted on Americans over the decades. Your employer most likely asks you whether you want a health savings account or a flexible spending account. I've resisted using one because they are such a pain, but I broke down and set up an FSA this year through Business Insider because I decided it was stupid to forgo the tax savings.
So I put $2,600 in the account and ADP sent me a debit card. I started using it at the doctor's office, at the pharmacy, at the physical therapist. (I threw out my back this spring, which is a reason I've been a little crankier than usual.)
Then, after a few months, I got a letter in the mail from ADP saying it needed my receipts. Receipts? I thought ADP got those straight from the providers. It seems it does get them from CVS, but not from the medical providers. I was supposed to be uploading those receipts through a website. Instead, I threw them away.
If I had to upload the receipts, then what was the point of the debit card? If the system requires that much paperwork, I might as well be submitting claim forms and getting checks in the mail. [...]
Who wants to deal with this crap?
Video Feed of Commerce Chief Wilbur Ross Cut Off Mid-Speech in Berlin
The U.S. commerce secretary was cut off in mid-speech during a video feed to an event hosted by Chancellor Angela Merkel’s party, underscoring how German patience with attacks on the country’s trade surplus is fraying.
Attendees at the Christian Democratic Union’s business conference in Berlin laughed and clapped when organizers faded out Wilbur Ross after about 20 minutes for overstepping his time limit. Merkel, who had been craning her neck on the podium to watch Ross speak on a screen behind her, then took the floor to close out the evening.
posted by PenDevil at 2:14 PM on June 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
The U.S. commerce secretary was cut off in mid-speech during a video feed to an event hosted by Chancellor Angela Merkel’s party, underscoring how German patience with attacks on the country’s trade surplus is fraying.
Attendees at the Christian Democratic Union’s business conference in Berlin laughed and clapped when organizers faded out Wilbur Ross after about 20 minutes for overstepping his time limit. Merkel, who had been craning her neck on the podium to watch Ross speak on a screen behind her, then took the floor to close out the evening.
posted by PenDevil at 2:14 PM on June 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
I realize that the Trump "Fake Time Magazine Cover" story is ultimately a nothingburger vs. actual legislative pandemoniums like TrumpCare & the travel ban & Syria & his emoluments &c. &c. &c.), but I realize that I can't find the source photo used in the cover online. Which leads me to question: did Donald Trump sit for a photoshoot specifically to have said photo used for no other purpose than to grace a fake cover of Time?
Trump's Razor would imply: "Yes, yes he did."
Do any of you know offhand? Has anyone sourced the original? It just seems so insanely plausible that I must know (if possible). Sleuth away, Metafilter! Help me sleep tonight!
posted by narwhal at 2:25 PM on June 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
Trump's Razor would imply: "Yes, yes he did."
Do any of you know offhand? Has anyone sourced the original? It just seems so insanely plausible that I must know (if possible). Sleuth away, Metafilter! Help me sleep tonight!
posted by narwhal at 2:25 PM on June 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
I know this is a politics thread and not a cyberwarfare thread, but for obvious reasons I think those are related now, so I'm gonna go ahead and drop these links in here...
Alex Hern for the Guardian: Ransomware attack 'not designed to make money', researchers claim
Mike Levine for ABC: At least 1 US nuclear plant's computer system was hacked
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:31 PM on June 28, 2017 [18 favorites]
Alex Hern for the Guardian: Ransomware attack 'not designed to make money', researchers claim
The attack began in Ukraine, and spread through a hacked Ukrainian accountancy software developer to companies in Russia, western Europe and the US. The software demanded payment of $300 (£230) to restore the user’s files and settings.According to the BBC:
The malware’s advanced intrusion techniques were in stark contrast with its rudimentary payment infrastructure, according to a pseudonymous security researcher known as “the grugq”.
The researcher said the software was “definitely not designed to make money” but “to spread fast and cause damage, [using the] plausibly deniable cover of ‘ransomware’”.
...
Ukraine has suggested Russia may have been behind the attack, which struck on the eve of Ukraine’s constitution day, which celebrates the country’s split from the Soviet Union.
Ukrainian firms, including the state power company and Kiev's main airport, were among the first to report issues.And a completely separate attack has also affect the business-related IT systems of US nuclear power plants.
The Chernobyl nuclear power plant has also had to monitor radiation levels manually after its Windows-based sensors were shut down.
Mike Levine for ABC: At least 1 US nuclear plant's computer system was hacked
There was no evidence that any particularly sensitive or operational systems were breached. Authorities believe only a less sensitive, business-associated side was compromised in at least one breach detected over recent months.Both the Guardian link and the ABC link mention leaked NSA exploits as being part of the attack mechanisms for these (separate) attacks.
...
One U.S. official called it an "ongoing matter" that is being investigated. No public authorities have issued word on who may be responsible, but agencies are looking at the possibility that another country may be behind the hack.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:31 PM on June 28, 2017 [18 favorites]
That seems like a good question for Fahrenthold to follow up on! Worth sending him a tweet to ask! I'm enjoying it mostly because it seems like the kind of story that is intensely irritating to the man himself.
posted by TwoWordReview at 2:32 PM on June 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by TwoWordReview at 2:32 PM on June 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
There's a thread on the cyber attack over here if people want to dig in more on that.
posted by LobsterMitten at 2:36 PM on June 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten at 2:36 PM on June 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
Fundraisers were told that if asked for information on Sekulow, they should say: “He never charges for his services”. Since 2000, the not-for-profit group and an affiliate have steered more than $60m to Sekulow, members of his family and businesses where they hold senior roles.
$60M (~3.75M/yr) Telemarketing Fraudz 4 Jeezus. This, right here, this is why I believe phone-banking for Democratic candidates doesn't work. I think it works against those candidates. It works great for sleazy scammers though.
posted by petebest at 2:45 PM on June 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
$60M (~3.75M/yr) Telemarketing Fraudz 4 Jeezus. This, right here, this is why I believe phone-banking for Democratic candidates doesn't work. I think it works against those candidates. It works great for sleazy scammers though.
posted by petebest at 2:45 PM on June 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Mitch McConnell just blew up one of Trump’s biggest lies
Trump has spent months making several intertwined claims. He has relentlessly asserted that Obamacare is collapsing on its own. He has offered a variation on this by threatening to cut off the cost-sharing reductions to insurers that subsidize out-of-pocket costs for lower-income people, which would drive insurers out of the markets; Trump has said this threat will force Democrats to the table to “deal” with him. And Trump has also blasted Democrats for refusing to participate in his designs (even though there are no circumstances under which Democrats would join in an effort that would leave 22 million more uninsured). Trump tweeted his fury at Democrats for not helping him destroy the ACA just yesterday.posted by kirkaracha at 2:53 PM on June 28, 2017 [37 favorites]
All of these claims are absurd in their own way, but they add up to a big bundle of unified nonsense. Yet McConnell is now laying waste to this entire story-line. McConnell’s argument to fellow Republicans — that failure means talks with Democrats over the ACA’s future — concedes a number of points. It concedes that, despite Trump’s claim of a desire for talks with Democrats, Republicans cannot work with Democrats, as long as Republicans remain wedded to their own priorities — that there is simply no bipartisan consensus possible, as long as Republicans are hellbent on cutting health spending on poor people by hundreds of billions of dollars to finance an enormous tax cut for the rich. After all, McConnell is arguing that passing a bill that does this, on a purely partisan basis, is the only way to avert any need to dilute the GOP’s devotion to those priorities.
I realize that I can't find the source photo used in the cover online. Which leads me to question: did Donald Trump sit for a photoshoot specifically to have said photo used for no other purpose than to grace a fake cover of Time?
Occam's Razor would suggest that Trump has plenty of b-roll stock that his minions could use to mock up that Time cover. A reverse-image Google search turned up nothing, but it does look like that's the same tie he wore for his Trump Steaks photo.
posted by Doktor Zed at 2:56 PM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Occam's Razor would suggest that Trump has plenty of b-roll stock that his minions could use to mock up that Time cover. A reverse-image Google search turned up nothing, but it does look like that's the same tie he wore for his Trump Steaks photo.
posted by Doktor Zed at 2:56 PM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
On the Jay Sekulow front, I didn't see it posted but the Washington Post did their own story that details how much Jay's wife, brother, sons and other family members made from his charity.
The article also has a great infographic showing how the money flowed between groups and family members.
posted by mmascolino at 2:57 PM on June 28, 2017 [28 favorites]
Since 2011, CASE has paid Sekulow and his family members a combined $4.2 million in salary and other compensation. That includes Sekulow’s two sons, his wife, his brother and his nephew. A New York Times wedding announcement for Jordan Sekulow in 2011 indicated that his future wife also worked at the nonprofit.It also details some eyebrow raising arrangements where seemingly shell sub-charities receive donations from Jay's main charity and then pay it out to other companies for services.
Jay Sekulow’s brother, Gary Sekulow, is the head of finance for both CASE and the ACLJ. Tax filings indicate that he works 40 hours a week at CASE and another 40 hours at the ACLJ, making $631,000 and $272,000, respectively, in 2015.
Since 2013, CASE has forwarded $500,000 each year to a small charity called the Law and Justice Institute that has no employees and relies almost exclusively on CASE for its revenue, tax filings show. Sekulow is president of the Law and Justice Institute. The Law and Justice Institute, in turn, has paid $500,000 each year to Advocacy Services. Robertson is president of that firm, according to Virginia state records. Robertson’s spokesman did not address written questions about the payments from The Post.The Robertson listed is Pat Robertson who founded the ACLJ.
The article also has a great infographic showing how the money flowed between groups and family members.
posted by mmascolino at 2:57 PM on June 28, 2017 [28 favorites]
Occam's Razor would suggest that Trump has plenty of b-roll stock that his minions could use to mock up that Time cover. A reverse-image Google search turned up nothing, but it does look like that's the same tie he wore for his Trump Steaks photo.
posted by Doktor Zed
Yep, but even so, that would mean that the fake cover came from inside the house, so to speak. Or are we confident that it was an inside job, already? I wasn't sure if there might have been some sort of plausibly deniable explanation like "oh, that old thing? I got it as a gift & thought it'd be fun to throw it up on the wall."
posted by narwhal at 3:04 PM on June 28, 2017
posted by Doktor Zed
Yep, but even so, that would mean that the fake cover came from inside the house, so to speak. Or are we confident that it was an inside job, already? I wasn't sure if there might have been some sort of plausibly deniable explanation like "oh, that old thing? I got it as a gift & thought it'd be fun to throw it up on the wall."
posted by narwhal at 3:04 PM on June 28, 2017
@Donald J. Trump: Democrats purposely misstated Medicaid under new Senate bill - actually goes up.
And he attaches a nice little graph showing spending on Medicaid going up, up, up. Graphs never lie, right?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:10 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
And he attaches a nice little graph showing spending on Medicaid going up, up, up. Graphs never lie, right?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:10 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
I wasn't sure if there might have been some sort of plausibly deniable explanation like "oh, that old thing? I got it as a gift & thought it'd be fun to throw it up on the wall."
Eh, maybe it was a gag prop that The Apprentice's marketing department threw together. It's not worth thinking about until Trump or one of his spox comments, i.e. lies about it. (I also wanted to see how well Google's reverse image search would do on that headshot - it could only return a variety of generic elderly white corporate executive-types.)
posted by Doktor Zed at 3:14 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Eh, maybe it was a gag prop that The Apprentice's marketing department threw together. It's not worth thinking about until Trump or one of his spox comments, i.e. lies about it. (I also wanted to see how well Google's reverse image search would do on that headshot - it could only return a variety of generic elderly white corporate executive-types.)
posted by Doktor Zed at 3:14 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Among the many ways Republicans have been pissing me off: You can't claim that large decreases in the rate of increase of Medicaid spending are not a cut while claiming that small decreases in the rate of increase of insurance premiums are a cut! Either they're both cuts and the BRCA massively cuts Medicaid or neither is a cut and the BRCA doesn't cut premiums! RAWRRR.
posted by Justinian at 3:15 PM on June 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 3:15 PM on June 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
Or is it possible to have a worldview so convoluted that you somehow are able to convince yourself that you just did a good thing?
As someone who grew up around things sponsored by the ACLJ ("the Christian ACLU!"), I think there are a couple things going with this statement. For discussion's sake, I'll pick it apart and try to explain where I think these ideas are coming from. (uh, Retweets & links are not endorsements, as the saying goes)
Islamic extremists are headed in your direction, and you are most likely the main target
Islamic extremists: Verbiage aside, I think this part is easy enough to understand. ISIS, al-Qaeda, etc all exist.
are headed in your direction: So we joke about the Evangelicals running around with the 10 Commandments and complaining about Sharia law, but I think again this can be understood as stemming from things like ISIS wanting a world wide caliphate to bring about the end times. People in the US who worry about this might have a touch of Cybernetic Deer Disorder, but again, ISIS exists and it does want to spread.
and you are most likely the main target: Ok, I don't know. I can be generous and talk about bin Laden or circle back to the idea of a global caliphate, but this is where I lose the thread. I guess I'd chalk this up to...effective fundraising techniques.
But I think a key point is to understand that some of this concern about Islam stems from the idea that if Jesus is the way to eternal life, anyone proselytizing a different message is really messing with people's eternal souls.
(Penn Jillette talks a little bit about something that I think is related to this type of worldview: "I don’t respect people who don’t proselytize. I don’t respect that at all. If you believe there is a heaven and hell, and people could be going to hell or not getting eternal life or whatever, and you think it’s not really worth telling them this because it would make it socially awkward.").
I think the "eternal perspective" gets super easily tangled in with a fear of the unknown/different, and all of a sudden sheltered evangelicals get stuck in this idea that "Anything Arabic is basically of the devil." I'd like to split the blame equally between religion and socially conservative culture, but for most of these people religion is their culture, so I'm stuck with the idea that I've been raised in a culture that's resulted in a lot of people who see things very differently than me. This isn't a new concept - the Christian school I went to for a few years had a book called Fit Bodies Fat Minds: Why Evangelicals Don't Think and What to Do About It included in their senior year Biblical studies class. (I didn't go there my senior year so I never got around to reading it....)
I've also found that a lot of people who follow the guy who said "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul." get pretty scared of people who might cause physical harm. I imagine there's probably some sort of way to invert the atheists in foxholes saying to describe this behavior.
Which is weird to me, because as an evangelical who is more worried about finding time to grocery shop this week than I am of ISIS, the eternal perspective shouldtrump win out on so many other conservative issues, like refugees or healthcare or education. (Which is how I've been fighting back on 45 - trying to teach people to approach political issues with an eternal perspective that is inherently selfless.)
So anyway, if you're being generous, I'd say this is advertising to people that see 9/11 as spiritually motivated and want to keep it from happening again. And if you're really generous, you can toss your hands up and wonder how a Middle Eastern nomad talking about"Love your neighbor as yourself" summing up the law and prophets led to, I don't know, a legal group called the ACLJ complaining about common carrier regulations for ISPs.
But again, that's all if you're really generous.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 3:16 PM on June 28, 2017 [23 favorites]
As someone who grew up around things sponsored by the ACLJ ("the Christian ACLU!"), I think there are a couple things going with this statement. For discussion's sake, I'll pick it apart and try to explain where I think these ideas are coming from. (uh, Retweets & links are not endorsements, as the saying goes)
Islamic extremists are headed in your direction, and you are most likely the main target
Islamic extremists: Verbiage aside, I think this part is easy enough to understand. ISIS, al-Qaeda, etc all exist.
are headed in your direction: So we joke about the Evangelicals running around with the 10 Commandments and complaining about Sharia law, but I think again this can be understood as stemming from things like ISIS wanting a world wide caliphate to bring about the end times. People in the US who worry about this might have a touch of Cybernetic Deer Disorder, but again, ISIS exists and it does want to spread.
and you are most likely the main target: Ok, I don't know. I can be generous and talk about bin Laden or circle back to the idea of a global caliphate, but this is where I lose the thread. I guess I'd chalk this up to...effective fundraising techniques.
But I think a key point is to understand that some of this concern about Islam stems from the idea that if Jesus is the way to eternal life, anyone proselytizing a different message is really messing with people's eternal souls.
(Penn Jillette talks a little bit about something that I think is related to this type of worldview: "I don’t respect people who don’t proselytize. I don’t respect that at all. If you believe there is a heaven and hell, and people could be going to hell or not getting eternal life or whatever, and you think it’s not really worth telling them this because it would make it socially awkward.").
I think the "eternal perspective" gets super easily tangled in with a fear of the unknown/different, and all of a sudden sheltered evangelicals get stuck in this idea that "Anything Arabic is basically of the devil." I'd like to split the blame equally between religion and socially conservative culture, but for most of these people religion is their culture, so I'm stuck with the idea that I've been raised in a culture that's resulted in a lot of people who see things very differently than me. This isn't a new concept - the Christian school I went to for a few years had a book called Fit Bodies Fat Minds: Why Evangelicals Don't Think and What to Do About It included in their senior year Biblical studies class. (I didn't go there my senior year so I never got around to reading it....)
I've also found that a lot of people who follow the guy who said "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul." get pretty scared of people who might cause physical harm. I imagine there's probably some sort of way to invert the atheists in foxholes saying to describe this behavior.
Which is weird to me, because as an evangelical who is more worried about finding time to grocery shop this week than I am of ISIS, the eternal perspective should
So anyway, if you're being generous, I'd say this is advertising to people that see 9/11 as spiritually motivated and want to keep it from happening again. And if you're really generous, you can toss your hands up and wonder how a Middle Eastern nomad talking about"Love your neighbor as yourself" summing up the law and prophets led to, I don't know, a legal group called the ACLJ complaining about common carrier regulations for ISPs.
But again, that's all if you're really generous.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 3:16 PM on June 28, 2017 [23 favorites]
I also wanted to see how well Google's reverse image search would do on that headshot - it could only return a variety of generic elderly white corporate executive-types.
To be fair, that is what the president* is, if one more forthcoming about his fondness for sexual assault than many.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:16 PM on June 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
To be fair, that is what the president* is, if one more forthcoming about his fondness for sexual assault than many.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:16 PM on June 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Politico: Burr: Senate panel to get Comey memos
Also at Politico: Trump's legal team approached former Mueller chief of staff to join
Also at Politico: Trump's legal team approached former Mueller chief of staff to join
President Donald Trump’s lawyers approached Daniel Levin, a former chief of staff to special counsel Robert Mueller, to join the president’s personal legal team amid the growing probe into his campaign’s potential ties with Russia.posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:18 PM on June 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Levin, a Washington lawyer who worked for Mueller at the FBI, has spoken to members of Trump’s defense team on several occasions but has not officially signed on, according to people familiar with the talks. Whether he will sign on “remains up in the air,” one person said.
And now I'm all annoyed all over again at the Christians who bought into all of the garbage with 45.
We didn't all, and of the rest, well, some, I assume, are good people.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 3:21 PM on June 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
We didn't all, and of the rest, well, some, I assume, are good people.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 3:21 PM on June 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
Buzzfeed: Immigrants Don't Commit More Crime Than US-Born Citizens, The Top Immigration Enforcer Just Said
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:25 PM on June 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
The acting director of US Immigration and Customs Enforcement on Wednesday appeared to undercut his boss, President Trump, on the same day Trump was touting two immigration bills intended to close "dangerous loopholes exploited by criminals."I did not realize that DJT actually took the position that "much of crime problem in the US" is caused by immigrant gang members. Much of the crime? Really? Someone ought to sit that fool down and show him some graphs and pictures and shit.
During an off-camera briefing, Thomas Homan appeared to disagree with the belief that immigrants commit more crimes than people born in the US, according to reporters at the scene.[...]
Trump has maintained since his campaign that undocumented immigrants are a major source of crime, and in executive orders has insisted that they "present a significant threat to national security and public safety." At an event in February with law enforcement officials from across the country, Trump said much of the crime problem in the US was caused by undocumented gang members.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:25 PM on June 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
Someone ought to sit that fool down and show him some graphs and pictures and shit.
That would only last until he ran into Bannon in the hallway, though. You'd have to time it just right.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 3:28 PM on June 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
That would only last until he ran into Bannon in the hallway, though. You'd have to time it just right.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 3:28 PM on June 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
@Jeremy Diamond: White House reneging on allowing press coverage of Trump's fundraiser speech tonight, citing "logistical" issues.
Hmmm. Logistical, right. This would be the fundraiser for his re-election campaign being held in his DC Hotel. Fingers crossed that some busboy or server records the speech on their phone. Although knowing DJT if they ever got caught they would undoubtedly be sued because as an employee they would have signed a NDA.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:33 PM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Hmmm. Logistical, right. This would be the fundraiser for his re-election campaign being held in his DC Hotel. Fingers crossed that some busboy or server records the speech on their phone. Although knowing DJT if they ever got caught they would undoubtedly be sued because as an employee they would have signed a NDA.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:33 PM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's being reported by Caroline O on twitter that the fundraiser is 35K per person. That seems a bit steep. I seem to recall fundraisers in the last election were more like 10K per couple plus 10K for a photograph but then he wasn't a sitting President back then.
If he is fundraising does he not have to fill out a FEC form this month? It will be interesting to see how much he charges for the use of his hotel.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:59 PM on June 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
If he is fundraising does he not have to fill out a FEC form this month? It will be interesting to see how much he charges for the use of his hotel.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:59 PM on June 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
Rightwing talking point I'm seeing on Twitter: saying "health care is a right" means you want doctors to be your slaves.
Except for the part where they get paid I guess.
posted by emjaybee at 1:26 PM
Ugh. This. Rand Paul was spouting this nonsense during the primaries & all I could think was: "Yeah, doctors will be slaves just like policefolk are slaves & firefolk are slaves & judges are slaves & public school teachers are slaves & road workers are slaves &c. & c. &c."
That this argument carries a single molecule of water with any "fiscal/thoughtful/#notallrepublicans" conservative gives me a migraine just thinking about my facepalm.
posted by narwhal at 4:04 PM on June 28, 2017 [12 favorites]
Except for the part where they get paid I guess.
posted by emjaybee at 1:26 PM
Ugh. This. Rand Paul was spouting this nonsense during the primaries & all I could think was: "Yeah, doctors will be slaves just like policefolk are slaves & firefolk are slaves & judges are slaves & public school teachers are slaves & road workers are slaves &c. & c. &c."
That this argument carries a single molecule of water with any "fiscal/thoughtful/#notallrepublicans" conservative gives me a migraine just thinking about my facepalm.
posted by narwhal at 4:04 PM on June 28, 2017 [12 favorites]
Hilariously Republicans are now claiming that future cuts to Medicaid are not cuts, they're just changing the growth rate! ...when in 2013 they were literally arguing the exact opposite with respect to sequestration defense spending cuts. See the trick? Cuts to things Republicans hate (poor and middle class people not dying) are not cuts! But cuts to things they love (bombing brown people indiscriminately and shoveling billions to defense contractors) are the worst cuts in human history and let the terrorists win.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:16 PM on June 28, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:16 PM on June 28, 2017 [15 favorites]
See also: Premium increases!! vs Bending the cost curve
posted by TwoWordReview at 4:21 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by TwoWordReview at 4:21 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
EPA Under Siege; a report by the Environmental Data and Government Initiative about the situation at EPA right now, based on interviews with dozens of EPA staff. Key takeaway: things do not look good.
posted by suelac at 4:30 PM on June 28, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by suelac at 4:30 PM on June 28, 2017 [30 favorites]
Guys, I'm feeling antsy. In this bizarre inverted Neverland I get edgy and unhappy if there's not almost daily news reports that would in normal circumstances each be a national controversy on their own.
I don't trust the quiet. I need something new. I want a bombshell. That's fucked up.
I hate this.
posted by jammer at 4:38 PM on June 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
I don't trust the quiet. I need something new. I want a bombshell. That's fucked up.
I hate this.
posted by jammer at 4:38 PM on June 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
I need something new. I want a bombshell.
Take solace in the fact than even the next bombshell wouldn't change anything anyway until we win the House, and sign up to register voters or call your Senator again.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:41 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Take solace in the fact than even the next bombshell wouldn't change anything anyway until we win the House, and sign up to register voters or call your Senator again.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:41 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Politico: Trump to warring GOP senators: I'm on your side
Paul wants to gut as much of Obamacare as possible and recalled after his one-on-one meeting that the president “realizes that moderates have gotten everything so far” on the healthcare talks. The centrist Collins, on the other hand, left a larger Tuesday gathering with the president sure that he still wants to make the bill’s healthcare offerings more robust, explaining that “he did leave me with that impression.”posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:44 PM on June 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
It’s not possible for both senators to get what they want, but somehow Trump convinced everyone in the Senate on Wednesday that he’s siding with them. In the 70-minute meeting with the vast majority of the Senate’s GOP caucus after Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell pulled the party’s repeal bill, Trump only spoke for about 10 minutes and when he talked he "seemed to agree with everyone there," one person familiar with the discussions said.
Trump only spoke for about 10 minutes and when he talked he "seemed to agree with everyone there," one person familiar with the discussions said.
JFC we elected Tom Haverford as president.
posted by Talez at 4:54 PM on June 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
JFC we elected Tom Haverford as president.
posted by Talez at 4:54 PM on June 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
Trump only spoke for about 10 minutes and when he talked he "seemed to agree with everyone there," one person familiar with the discussions said.
That's because he has no idea what is going on, and he's just agreeing with whoever is talking. He doesn't understand that the desires of the two factions are irreconcilable.
We need to make it crueler! Yeah, sure, go for it. We need to make it less cruel! Yeah, that makes sense, go ahead.
posted by diogenes at 4:57 PM on June 28, 2017 [12 favorites]
That's because he has no idea what is going on, and he's just agreeing with whoever is talking. He doesn't understand that the desires of the two factions are irreconcilable.
We need to make it crueler! Yeah, sure, go for it. We need to make it less cruel! Yeah, that makes sense, go ahead.
posted by diogenes at 4:57 PM on June 28, 2017 [12 favorites]
2020 only deep red Senate seats are at risk.
2020 includes good Dem targets in Maine, North Carolina and Colorado, and possibly Iowa or Georgia. Democrats will only be seriously defending Michigan, New Mexico and Virginia. Stretch goals after 4 Years of Trump could include Tennessee, Texas, West Virginia and Mitch McConnell himself if things really went off the rails. The 2018 map is hopeless, but 2020 is slightly less so.
Unfortunately Democrats forfeited the best cycle running comically bad candidates like Evan Bath, Ted Strickland, Patrick Murphy and Patty Judge in what were projected to be competitive races.
Maybe they would have had a better pool of candidates to choose from if they had taken local races more seriously and attracted better candidates there.
posted by ZeusHumms at 5:02 PM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
2020 includes good Dem targets in Maine, North Carolina and Colorado, and possibly Iowa or Georgia. Democrats will only be seriously defending Michigan, New Mexico and Virginia. Stretch goals after 4 Years of Trump could include Tennessee, Texas, West Virginia and Mitch McConnell himself if things really went off the rails. The 2018 map is hopeless, but 2020 is slightly less so.
Unfortunately Democrats forfeited the best cycle running comically bad candidates like Evan Bath, Ted Strickland, Patrick Murphy and Patty Judge in what were projected to be competitive races.
Maybe they would have had a better pool of candidates to choose from if they had taken local races more seriously and attracted better candidates there.
posted by ZeusHumms at 5:02 PM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Apologies if I missed this already posted:
How Governors From Both Parties Plotted to Derail the Senate Health Bill
Thank you for those who suggested contacting state governments, even in red states to oppose this bill. It appears adding contacting state personnel, regardless of political affiliation, can be of significant help opposing this bill.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 5:11 PM on June 28, 2017 [42 favorites]
How Governors From Both Parties Plotted to Derail the Senate Health Bill
More than half a dozen Republican governors, including several from states with Republican senators, expressed either grave reservations or outright opposition to the bill, while Democrats have been unanimous in their disapproval. Though their preferences on health policy diverge in many ways, state leaders from both parties were alarmed at the potential for harm to their constituents, state budgets and insurance markets.(Emphases mine.)
Gov. Brian Sandoval, Republican of Nevada, rejected the Senate proposal so forcefully that he helped sway his state’s Republican senator, Dean Heller, to oppose the measure.
Thank you for those who suggested contacting state governments, even in red states to oppose this bill. It appears adding contacting state personnel, regardless of political affiliation, can be of significant help opposing this bill.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 5:11 PM on June 28, 2017 [42 favorites]
Paul wants to gut as much of Obamacare as possible and recalled after his one-on-one meeting that the president “realizes that moderates have gotten everything so far” on the healthcare talks. The centrist Collins, on the other hand, left a larger Tuesday gathering with the president sure that he still wants to make the bill’s healthcare offerings more robust, explaining that “he did leave me with that impression.”
Trump will fucking say anything you want to hear! Do I have to get that printed on a million postcards? Were you awake during the election? It bothers me that they don't seem to fathom how consistently he lies. How is this hard to miss?
posted by puddledork at 5:12 PM on June 28, 2017 [18 favorites]
Trump will fucking say anything you want to hear! Do I have to get that printed on a million postcards? Were you awake during the election? It bothers me that they don't seem to fathom how consistently he lies. How is this hard to miss?
posted by puddledork at 5:12 PM on June 28, 2017 [18 favorites]
doctors will be slaves
This has been a go to idea of Sen. Rand Paul for some time. Here he is (youtube 4min42sec) explaining the idiotic notion to Sen. Sanders in 2011.
posted by phoque at 5:12 PM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
This has been a go to idea of Sen. Rand Paul for some time. Here he is (youtube 4min42sec) explaining the idiotic notion to Sen. Sanders in 2011.
posted by phoque at 5:12 PM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
this can be understood as stemming from things like ISIS wanting a world wide caliphate to bring about the end times
Without distinguishing between wanting to do something and being able to do it. Sure, ISIS wants to take over the world, but they have non ability to.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:13 PM on June 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Paul wants to gut as much of Obamacare as possible and recalled after his one-on-one meeting that the president “realizes that moderates have gotten everything so far” on the healthcare talks. The centrist Collins, on the other hand, left a larger Tuesday gathering with the president sure that he still wants to make the bill’s healthcare offerings more robust, explaining that “he did leave me with that impression.”
Trump will fucking say anything you want to hear! Do I have to get that printed on a million postcards? Were you awake during the election? It bothers me that they don't seem to fathom how consistently he lies. How is this hard to miss?
posted by puddledork at 7:12 PM on June 28 [1 favorite +] [!]
Well, Trump had roughly 63 million votes, so you might want to crowdsource to cover the other postcards.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 5:21 PM on June 28, 2017
Trump will fucking say anything you want to hear! Do I have to get that printed on a million postcards? Were you awake during the election? It bothers me that they don't seem to fathom how consistently he lies. How is this hard to miss?
posted by puddledork at 7:12 PM on June 28 [1 favorite +] [!]
Well, Trump had roughly 63 million votes, so you might want to crowdsource to cover the other postcards.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 5:21 PM on June 28, 2017
> Trump only spoke for about 10 minutes and when he talked he "seemed to agree with everyone there," one person familiar with the discussions said.
That's because he has no idea what is going on, and he's just agreeing with whoever is talking.
To reiterate, Donald Trump is cognitively impaired. The Daily Beast, the preferred outlet of Trump staffers who want to talk trash about their horrible boss, is asking the wrong question in its article Does Trump Know The 1st Thing About Health Care?
posted by Doktor Zed at 5:24 PM on June 28, 2017 [24 favorites]
That's because he has no idea what is going on, and he's just agreeing with whoever is talking.
To reiterate, Donald Trump is cognitively impaired. The Daily Beast, the preferred outlet of Trump staffers who want to talk trash about their horrible boss, is asking the wrong question in its article Does Trump Know The 1st Thing About Health Care?
One former senior Trump campaign aide recalled to The Daily Beast several instances throughout 2016 when the Republican presidential contender would privately appear to confuse Medicaid and Medicare, and the functions and purposes of each. He would at times conflate to the two and had to be reminded of which one was which.The real question is if Trump has the cognitive capacity to retain the simplest distinctions about the US healthcare system—and the answer is no.
"There would be times when he would describe what was clearly Medicare...but say Medicaid, and when we pointed that out, he would say, 'That's what I said, Medicare and Medicaid,'" the source recounted.
posted by Doktor Zed at 5:24 PM on June 28, 2017 [24 favorites]
The Arkansas Ten Commandments guy is a Christian with mental-health issues.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:26 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:26 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
I just got back from the healthcare rally at the Capitol. It was originally supposed to be a human chain, but they couldn’t get the permit for that, so it was a march that went around the capitol and ended up as a rally. I don’t know what the crowd estimates were, but I was impressed with the size, given that the bill was pulled yesterday (and I'm guessing a lot of people who would have otherwise attended may have stayed home).
Speakers included Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi (decked out in Planned Parenthood pink, to match all the PP signs & shirts in the crowd), Tom Perez, Cory Booker, Kamala Harris, Chris Murphy, John Lewis, and one rep whose name I didn’t catch. Jason Kander was there in the crowd, and two of the Pod Save America dudes introduced Kamala Harris.
There was a good energy— no doubt bolstered by the temporary reprieve— and all the speakers focused on how important it would be to keep up pressure next week and make sure every July 4th parade with a republican in it turns into a health care rally where they are punished for trying to kill people.
I know Cory Booker Is Problematic, but his remarks were really impressive— he talked about the history of fighting oppression in America, and he listed WWII and civil rights, but he also mentioned Stonewall and talked about racism being America’s original sin, and how we have to acknowledge that (and sexism) in order to do better. I heard some dude say “I guess that’s his future campaign speech”, but I haven’t heard a lot of elected reps go quite so hard on America’s imperfect past before, in such an encouraging way.
And then John Lewis told everyone to get into “Good Trouble”, and it was amazing and my heart swelled with love.
Oh, and Chris Murphy said that his Republican colleagues know in their hearts that this bill is evil, but that we need to drag the approval rating down from 13% to 3% to help them to do the right thing. (He was mostly being sardonic, but focused on keeping up the pressure, and how much McConnell HATES the details of the bill being discussed at all.) He also said that he had been talking to a cable news host who implied that the networks aren’t sure the health care fight will make for “good tv”. So Murphy implied that protesters need to make sure to make as many public spectacles as possible, so that they don’t have any choice but to cover the bill and help people realize how horrific it is. (Again, kind of sardonic about citizens needing to urge reporters to cover the news, but still.)
posted by a fiendish thingy at 5:31 PM on June 28, 2017 [76 favorites]
Speakers included Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi (decked out in Planned Parenthood pink, to match all the PP signs & shirts in the crowd), Tom Perez, Cory Booker, Kamala Harris, Chris Murphy, John Lewis, and one rep whose name I didn’t catch. Jason Kander was there in the crowd, and two of the Pod Save America dudes introduced Kamala Harris.
There was a good energy— no doubt bolstered by the temporary reprieve— and all the speakers focused on how important it would be to keep up pressure next week and make sure every July 4th parade with a republican in it turns into a health care rally where they are punished for trying to kill people.
I know Cory Booker Is Problematic, but his remarks were really impressive— he talked about the history of fighting oppression in America, and he listed WWII and civil rights, but he also mentioned Stonewall and talked about racism being America’s original sin, and how we have to acknowledge that (and sexism) in order to do better. I heard some dude say “I guess that’s his future campaign speech”, but I haven’t heard a lot of elected reps go quite so hard on America’s imperfect past before, in such an encouraging way.
And then John Lewis told everyone to get into “Good Trouble”, and it was amazing and my heart swelled with love.
Oh, and Chris Murphy said that his Republican colleagues know in their hearts that this bill is evil, but that we need to drag the approval rating down from 13% to 3% to help them to do the right thing. (He was mostly being sardonic, but focused on keeping up the pressure, and how much McConnell HATES the details of the bill being discussed at all.) He also said that he had been talking to a cable news host who implied that the networks aren’t sure the health care fight will make for “good tv”. So Murphy implied that protesters need to make sure to make as many public spectacles as possible, so that they don’t have any choice but to cover the bill and help people realize how horrific it is. (Again, kind of sardonic about citizens needing to urge reporters to cover the news, but still.)
posted by a fiendish thingy at 5:31 PM on June 28, 2017 [76 favorites]
The Arkansas Ten Commandments guy is a Christian with mental-health issues.
Doing the lord's work though.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 5:32 PM on June 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Doing the lord's work though.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 5:32 PM on June 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Mental health issues side, there's plenty Christian theological support for running the fuck over a statue like that. Still, I hope that guy gets the care he seems to need.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:42 PM on June 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:42 PM on June 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
Politico: Tillerson blows up at top White House aide
posted by zachlipton at 5:46 PM on June 28, 2017 [44 favorites]
Secretary of State Rex Tillerson’s frustrations with the White House have been building for months. Last Friday, they exploded.Two things. First, what did Tillerson think he was getting into when he took the job? Did he pay any attention to the campaign at all? Because this sort of thing is exactly what I would have expected to happen, and it's idiotic for Tillerson to somehow be surprised by it. Second, did Jared Kushner really think that reprimanding the Secretary of State to his Chief of Staff would possibly be a good idea? That Jared getting in the middle of this in any way would somehow calm Tillerson, who is obviously furious at Kushner for running his own foreign policy shop, down?
The normally laconic Texan unloaded on Johnny DeStefano, the head of the presidential personnel office, for torpedoing proposed nominees to senior State Department posts and for questioning his judgment.
Tillerson also complained that the White House was leaking damaging information about him to the news media, according to a person familiar with the meeting. Above all, he made clear that he did not want DeStefano’s office to “have any role in staffing” and “expressed frustration that anybody would know better” than he about who should work in his department – particularly after the president had promised him autonomy to make his own decisions and hires, according to a senior White House aide familiar with the conversation.
The episode stunned other White House officials gathered in chief of staff Reince Priebus’s office, leaving them silent as Tillerson raised his voice. In the room with Tillerson and DeStefano were Priebus, top aide Jared Kushner and Margaret Peterlin, the Secretary of State’s chief of staff.
The encounter, described by four people familiar with what happened, was so explosive that Kushner approached Peterlin afterwards and told that Tillerson’s outburst was completely unprofessional, according to two of the people familiar with the exchange, and told her that they needed to work out a solution.
posted by zachlipton at 5:46 PM on June 28, 2017 [44 favorites]
Also, bees. YOU ARE THE BEES.
The bees were inside my heart all along?!?
posted by Justinian at 5:48 PM on June 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
The bees were inside my heart all along?!?
posted by Justinian at 5:48 PM on June 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
JFC we elected Tom Haverford as president.
If Trump is anyone on Parks & Rec, I think my vote would be Councilman Jamm.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 5:50 PM on June 28, 2017 [20 favorites]
If Trump is anyone on Parks & Rec, I think my vote would be Councilman Jamm.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 5:50 PM on June 28, 2017 [20 favorites]
I've been thinking a lot about civil disobedience lately -- in particular since seeing Rev. Barber speak in front of Toomey's Philly office last week and then hearing from ADAPT people who have been getting arrested at senators' offices (for example). John Lewis' "good trouble" is another push in that direction for me.
The idea of getting arrested is terrifying for me. But I'm starting to think that if now isn't the time, when is?
posted by mcduff at 5:54 PM on June 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
The idea of getting arrested is terrifying for me. But I'm starting to think that if now isn't the time, when is?
posted by mcduff at 5:54 PM on June 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
The whole Tillerson (AKA evil zombie Powers Boothe)-Kushner conflict is of course hilarious and stupid but this part reminded me that this is all still terrifying:
Where Tillerson is concerned, the frustration goes both ways. Many of his proposed nominees have been rejected by DeStefano’s Office of Presidential Personnel either because they are Democrats or because they are Republicans who were critical of Trump during the campaign.
All those State positions that must only be filled not just with Republicans but regime loyalists. Real bad shit.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:56 PM on June 28, 2017 [25 favorites]
Where Tillerson is concerned, the frustration goes both ways. Many of his proposed nominees have been rejected by DeStefano’s Office of Presidential Personnel either because they are Democrats or because they are Republicans who were critical of Trump during the campaign.
All those State positions that must only be filled not just with Republicans but regime loyalists. Real bad shit.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:56 PM on June 28, 2017 [25 favorites]
The idea of getting arrested is terrifying for me. But I'm starting to think that if now isn't the time, when is?
Just weigh the consequences. Will the lost wages, money on bail, legal fees, etc be better spent resisting in other ways right now?
I'm ready to make that choice when it counts. I'm willing to march on Washington and pull them all physically out of there if a revolution ends up being the solution we need. Until then, I'm spending spare $$ on legal means.
posted by greermahoney at 6:00 PM on June 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
Just weigh the consequences. Will the lost wages, money on bail, legal fees, etc be better spent resisting in other ways right now?
I'm ready to make that choice when it counts. I'm willing to march on Washington and pull them all physically out of there if a revolution ends up being the solution we need. Until then, I'm spending spare $$ on legal means.
posted by greermahoney at 6:00 PM on June 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
It's like the cabinet battle scene in Hamilton where Hamilton is rapping about all the reasons the federal government should assume state debts and found a national bank and Washington just stops everyone and reveals he doesn't know what debt is or what a bank is or how many states there are and tells one group of people there should be more debt and another group there should be less debt before interrupting himself to comment on the appearance of a woman in the room and announce the size of his electoral college victory.
Oh wait. That's not part of the musical because the President didn't use to be completely clueless of basic features of the government like the difference between Medicare and Medicaid.
posted by zachlipton at 6:00 PM on June 28, 2017 [54 favorites]
Oh wait. That's not part of the musical because the President didn't use to be completely clueless of basic features of the government like the difference between Medicare and Medicaid.
posted by zachlipton at 6:00 PM on June 28, 2017 [54 favorites]
Here is the one good thing about the Trump presidency.
Our system of government is all out in the open now, all the borderline stuff, all the sub rosa stuff, all the reality of our democracy/oligarchy. It is spread out, all over the field of Washington's doings and it is obvious this is the way we run, and the others have been better at covering it up with protocols, except for GW Bush, who could not possibly cover up Cheney and Rumsfeld, and a million dead in Iraq.
The assault on our nation's natural resources by degrees has been ongoing, with the national monuments and parks the only hold backs. I mean look at The Bears Ears, perhaps you don't know this, but a Uranium mill and processing plant has been running with out a license for a decade down there, with waters polluting the Navajo Reservation. It was set up so that no one regulates Uranium mines, except the states, and this mill takes in radioactive waste and purifies it, and has been doing so with virtually no oversight. Trucks laden with liquid waste were moving from Wyoming all the way through Utah, down to Blanding, and woopsie, one of them spilled the whole load along the way. Oh dern it.
Trump has done us the favor of showing our broken system, not just showing us, but skipping down the road, waving a banner about it. It is a wonder they all have not broken their necks slipping around on the money everywhere. This has become the land of the red herring opportunity for immigrants to hope, and slave, and endure hatred. Congratulations Mr. Trump, I now know my subliminal history. We can't go on like this. Something has to change.
posted by Oyéah at 6:05 PM on June 28, 2017 [19 favorites]
Our system of government is all out in the open now, all the borderline stuff, all the sub rosa stuff, all the reality of our democracy/oligarchy. It is spread out, all over the field of Washington's doings and it is obvious this is the way we run, and the others have been better at covering it up with protocols, except for GW Bush, who could not possibly cover up Cheney and Rumsfeld, and a million dead in Iraq.
The assault on our nation's natural resources by degrees has been ongoing, with the national monuments and parks the only hold backs. I mean look at The Bears Ears, perhaps you don't know this, but a Uranium mill and processing plant has been running with out a license for a decade down there, with waters polluting the Navajo Reservation. It was set up so that no one regulates Uranium mines, except the states, and this mill takes in radioactive waste and purifies it, and has been doing so with virtually no oversight. Trucks laden with liquid waste were moving from Wyoming all the way through Utah, down to Blanding, and woopsie, one of them spilled the whole load along the way. Oh dern it.
Trump has done us the favor of showing our broken system, not just showing us, but skipping down the road, waving a banner about it. It is a wonder they all have not broken their necks slipping around on the money everywhere. This has become the land of the red herring opportunity for immigrants to hope, and slave, and endure hatred. Congratulations Mr. Trump, I now know my subliminal history. We can't go on like this. Something has to change.
posted by Oyéah at 6:05 PM on June 28, 2017 [19 favorites]
The episode stunned other White House officials gathered in chief of staff Reince Priebus’s office, leaving them silent as Tillerson raised his voice. In the room with Tillerson and DeStefano were Priebus, top aide Jared Kushner and Margaret Peterlin, the Secretary of State’s chief of staff.
The encounter, described by four people familiar with what happened
I realize "familiar with what happened" doesn't literally mean "people who were in the office," but look at all the names already listed. How many people fit in Priebus's office in the first place? My first thought was that list of people present is probably the same four people who talked to Politico.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 6:06 PM on June 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
The encounter, described by four people familiar with what happened
I realize "familiar with what happened" doesn't literally mean "people who were in the office," but look at all the names already listed. How many people fit in Priebus's office in the first place? My first thought was that list of people present is probably the same four people who talked to Politico.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 6:06 PM on June 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
uh folks trump is literally Bobby Newport.
(Cruz is Councilman Jamm)
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 6:07 PM on June 28, 2017 [16 favorites]
(Cruz is Councilman Jamm)
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 6:07 PM on June 28, 2017 [16 favorites]
I think democrats in congress and those of us contacting them could link lost health care and lost jobs in the same sentence at every opportunity to good effect
A supercut of Trump saying Jobs! Jobs! with text superimposed listing the estimated job elimination from AHCA/BCRA state by state.
posted by ctmf at 6:15 PM on June 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
A supercut of Trump saying Jobs! Jobs! with text superimposed listing the estimated job elimination from AHCA/BCRA state by state.
posted by ctmf at 6:15 PM on June 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
Question, in countries with socialized medicine, is the cost of medical school borne by the state, rather than the student?
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 6:17 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 6:17 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Also, bees. YOU ARE THE BEES.
Be the bees you want to be in the world!
posted by Floydd at 6:32 PM on June 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
Be the bees you want to be in the world!
posted by Floydd at 6:32 PM on June 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
Question, in countries with socialized medicine, is the cost of medical school borne by the state, rather than the student?
There are as many answers as there are countries with socialized medicine.
In Australia the cost is borne 1/3 by the student. Medicine for example is A$10,596/year in fees and it gets put on your tax number. You then start paying off the debt (the interest rate is CPI) by having a higher marginal rate once you start earning over a certain amount. Students that need to move to attend university can get a stipend for rent allowance and also a government allowance while studying. Students can also earn $437/fortnight before losing any government payments and since it's calculated on a fortnightly basis the payment sort of "tops up" irregular hours that students can often keep.
So a high paying doctor (surgeon you're looking at A$250K/year salary) isn't exactly given a degree on a silver platter but it's not like you're taking on high six figures of debt to get off the ground.
posted by Talez at 6:39 PM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
There are as many answers as there are countries with socialized medicine.
In Australia the cost is borne 1/3 by the student. Medicine for example is A$10,596/year in fees and it gets put on your tax number. You then start paying off the debt (the interest rate is CPI) by having a higher marginal rate once you start earning over a certain amount. Students that need to move to attend university can get a stipend for rent allowance and also a government allowance while studying. Students can also earn $437/fortnight before losing any government payments and since it's calculated on a fortnightly basis the payment sort of "tops up" irregular hours that students can often keep.
So a high paying doctor (surgeon you're looking at A$250K/year salary) isn't exactly given a degree on a silver platter but it's not like you're taking on high six figures of debt to get off the ground.
posted by Talez at 6:39 PM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Question, in countries with socialized medicine, is the cost of medical school borne by the state, rather than the student?
It tends to be subsidized to varying degrees.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:40 PM on June 28, 2017
It tends to be subsidized to varying degrees.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:40 PM on June 28, 2017
Oh and all the time you're over 18 and working you're getting 9.5% on top of your income socked away in a compulsory retirement account.
posted by Talez at 6:41 PM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Talez at 6:41 PM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
I might be alone here but I strongly support high salaries/stipends for elected officials
I might be able to get behind that if the answer to "how much money do you need" isn't always "more". That is, the theory that being highly paid would mean they'll be too principled to take money from people offering it to them? HAHAHAHAHA that's uh, optimistic, to say it nicely.
No principles now, no evidence that having money changes that in a person.
posted by ctmf at 6:43 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
I might be able to get behind that if the answer to "how much money do you need" isn't always "more". That is, the theory that being highly paid would mean they'll be too principled to take money from people offering it to them? HAHAHAHAHA that's uh, optimistic, to say it nicely.
No principles now, no evidence that having money changes that in a person.
posted by ctmf at 6:43 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
petebest: "Skooch closer children and let ol' petebest tell you about a time in America what we called the President Reagan. (We spelled "Predisent" wrong back then.) Many people wondered what an actor could do as the head of a functioning government"
Festivus must have come early this year, because I am going to air another grievance. You are absolutely right that there was a lot of, "An ACTOR as President?!?" shit at the time and it was frankly asinine, and led people like Clark Clifford to think they'd easily outsmart him, and then be shocked when they didn't. He'd been (oh, irony) president of the Screen Actor's Guild and then served two terms as the governor of the largest state in the country. Then, after nearly defeating the sitting president for the '76 GOP nomination, he spent four years honing his message, easily took the '80 nomination, and defeated a sitting president pretty handily in the general. He then went on to basically completely change the political environment, shaping it in a way that we're still battling today.
My point is not that he was a good president - with a few exceptions, his influence was almost entirely malign. Nor that he wasn't clearly in the early stages of dementia no later than his second term. My point is that "An actor? He'll be a clown!" was already pretty clearly false as of 1980, and only became more so with time. He had governing experience and a philosophy, neither of which are true of Trump.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:45 PM on June 28, 2017 [24 favorites]
Festivus must have come early this year, because I am going to air another grievance. You are absolutely right that there was a lot of, "An ACTOR as President?!?" shit at the time and it was frankly asinine, and led people like Clark Clifford to think they'd easily outsmart him, and then be shocked when they didn't. He'd been (oh, irony) president of the Screen Actor's Guild and then served two terms as the governor of the largest state in the country. Then, after nearly defeating the sitting president for the '76 GOP nomination, he spent four years honing his message, easily took the '80 nomination, and defeated a sitting president pretty handily in the general. He then went on to basically completely change the political environment, shaping it in a way that we're still battling today.
My point is not that he was a good president - with a few exceptions, his influence was almost entirely malign. Nor that he wasn't clearly in the early stages of dementia no later than his second term. My point is that "An actor? He'll be a clown!" was already pretty clearly false as of 1980, and only became more so with time. He had governing experience and a philosophy, neither of which are true of Trump.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:45 PM on June 28, 2017 [24 favorites]
basically salaries have to be set high enough to make being an elected official an attractive job for a talented poor person.
I mean if we want to get bananas we could set up compensation in a way such that the job would be attractive to talented poor people but not at all attractive to rich people; like, make taking office require relinquishing holdings above a certain threshold, for example.
simply reducing the pay makes it harder to poor people to hold office and does nothing to make office-holding less attractive to rich people. it's a bad idea.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 6:49 PM on June 28, 2017 [12 favorites]
I mean if we want to get bananas we could set up compensation in a way such that the job would be attractive to talented poor people but not at all attractive to rich people; like, make taking office require relinquishing holdings above a certain threshold, for example.
simply reducing the pay makes it harder to poor people to hold office and does nothing to make office-holding less attractive to rich people. it's a bad idea.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 6:49 PM on June 28, 2017 [12 favorites]
Mental health issues side, there's plenty Christian theological support for running the fuck over a statue like that.
Including from The Big Guy Himself.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:51 PM on June 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
Kushner approached Peterlin afterwards and told that Tillerson’s outburst was completely unprofessional
Said the 36-year-old head of MidEast Peace Relations, Reinventing American Business, Resolving the Opioid Epidemic, and a greasy sock full of other Shit He Knows Fuck-All About because he's currently married to thewife daughter of the biggest Professional Embarrassment to lie, cheat, and steal his way into the "Prednisency"; Donald Fucking Trump.
Not Professional? Not PROFESSIONAL?! Fuck Sleepy T and all he stands for, but SHUT UP, CHILD.
posted by petebest at 7:16 PM on June 28, 2017 [32 favorites]
Said the 36-year-old head of MidEast Peace Relations, Reinventing American Business, Resolving the Opioid Epidemic, and a greasy sock full of other Shit He Knows Fuck-All About because he's currently married to the
Not Professional? Not PROFESSIONAL?! Fuck Sleepy T and all he stands for, but SHUT UP, CHILD.
posted by petebest at 7:16 PM on June 28, 2017 [32 favorites]
So in the cavalcade of shit known as "GOP state houses" comes so far today:
NC House GOP votes to impeach the Secretary of State for supposedly appointing dreamers as notaries.
KY Governor Bevin signs HB 128 which forces schools to establish an elective bible study unit into public school.
So yeah, I guess they're "taking their country back".
posted by Talez at 7:17 PM on June 28, 2017 [12 favorites]
NC House GOP votes to impeach the Secretary of State for supposedly appointing dreamers as notaries.
KY Governor Bevin signs HB 128 which forces schools to establish an elective bible study unit into public school.
So yeah, I guess they're "taking their country back".
posted by Talez at 7:17 PM on June 28, 2017 [12 favorites]
208,500 additional deaths could occur by 2026 under the Senate health plan
posted by tonycpsu at 7:18 PM on June 28, 2017 [28 favorites]
In making these calculations, we draw on the scientific literature demonstrating that expanding health insurance reduces deaths. We specifically apply the results of a particularly robust study of the effects of health care reform in Massachusetts on mortality. Massachusetts’ health care reform — which expanded Medicaid, offered subsidized private insurance, and included an individual mandate — famously served as a model for the ACA. The Massachusetts study looked at county-level mortality data in 2001 to 2005 (pre-reform) and 2007 to 2010 (post-reform), and compared the changes to carefully selected control groups in other states that had not enacted health reform.Lots more interesting findings and debunking of arguments that insurance doesn't help people in there, so Read The Whole Thing (tm).
For every 830 individuals insured, the authors found, one life was saved. In medical terms, 830 in this context is the “number needed to treat.” To put this into perspective, the colonoscopy number needed to treat is 1250; you need to conduct 1250 colonoscopy screenings to prevent one colorectal cancer death.
Overall, in Massachusetts, insurance coverage expansion was associated with a 3 percent decline in mortality from all causes, and a 4.5 percent decrease in deaths from causes that are especially amenable to being prevented by health care — including heart disease, infection, diabetes, and cancer.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:18 PM on June 28, 2017 [28 favorites]
First, what did Tillerson think he was getting into when he took the job?
There's not a one of this bunch of jokers that doesn't believe they should be calling all the shots and nobody should constrain their choices. Partly that's because they're assholes, partly it's having been in gigs where they were constantly kowtowed to by people who they could fire. Suddenly finding themselves with bosses for the first time in decades and not being able to just wave away process set in law and regulations is traumatic for them.
posted by phearlez at 7:23 PM on June 28, 2017 [12 favorites]
There's not a one of this bunch of jokers that doesn't believe they should be calling all the shots and nobody should constrain their choices. Partly that's because they're assholes, partly it's having been in gigs where they were constantly kowtowed to by people who they could fire. Suddenly finding themselves with bosses for the first time in decades and not being able to just wave away process set in law and regulations is traumatic for them.
posted by phearlez at 7:23 PM on June 28, 2017 [12 favorites]
That's a very interesting article on mortality and insurance. Has anyone produced estimates of the effect of the AHCA in terms of quality adjusted life years?
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 7:32 PM on June 28, 2017
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 7:32 PM on June 28, 2017
There's not a one of this bunch of jokers that doesn't believe they should be calling all the shots and nobody should constrain their choices.
Although, to be fair, the normal situation is basically: Prez sets the overall policies, Secretary runs the day to day stuff and largely can hire who they like. This kind of "Trump supporters only" and drive by micromanaging is not normal.
No sympathy for Tillerson, but if I were him, I wouldn't have expected stuff to be like this.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:36 PM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Although, to be fair, the normal situation is basically: Prez sets the overall policies, Secretary runs the day to day stuff and largely can hire who they like. This kind of "Trump supporters only" and drive by micromanaging is not normal.
No sympathy for Tillerson, but if I were him, I wouldn't have expected stuff to be like this.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:36 PM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
This isn’t a great surprise and it’s no great insight. But we’re seeing the dynamic play out in real time, in very hard, concrete ways. States’ unwillingness to give up Medicaid expansion has been a major problem for the Republican senate trying to repeal Obamacare. Whether it will be enough of an obstacle isn’t yet clear.The Ratchet of Medicaid Expansion (TPM)
posted by Barack Spinoza at 7:37 PM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Trump has promised a "big surprise" on health care. James Poniewozik, the NYT TV critic, tells the story of the time when "a leader with inordinate self-confidence took upon himself the job of picking a great new healthcare plan" and promised a big surprise. That leader is Michael Scott. Everything that has happened is literally the plot of Season 1 Episode 3 of The Office.
I haven't seen a lot of talk about the immigration bills the House is voting on tomorrow. From the Post: Tougher immigration policies face first major legislative test of Trump era
Also on immigration, new visa rules were announced in light of the Supreme Court's ruling. They, thankfully, aren't cancelling existing visas like they did before, but new visa applicants from the six countries along with all refugee applicants will have to prove a close familial or professional relationship with someone already in the US or a US entity to be eligible. Grandparents, aunts, and uncles, among others, aren't considered close enough, so remember that they're banning grandparents from seeing their American grandchildren when you hear Republicans talking about how they love to support families. I, for one, am still awaiting an answer as to what happened to the whole 90 day review thing.
In global news, Nikki Haley says: "Just 5 months into our time here, we've cut over half a billion $$$ from the UN peacekeeping budget & we’re only getting started." She also put her own tweet in quotation marks, which isn't how you're supposed to do this, though I am open to the possibility that she was quoting herself. More seriously, what kind of person walks around the world right now thinking "what we really need is less peacekeeping?"
In further health care news, unrelated to The Office, this is a really good op-ed in the NY Daily News out of the Harvard health policy group: Just how badly the Senate's health bill will eviscerate Medicaid: Understanding the devastating mechanics of the cuts. It digs into some of the details: states can opt to make people on Medicaid re-enroll every single month, and it stops the provision under which Medicaid would kick in immediately and pay your bill while you're applying for the program, which keeps you from racking up a giant bill while your application is processed. Hospitals will really hate that, because they rely on being able to make uninsured patients eligible for Medicaid sign up retroactively after treatment so they get paid something for their services.
And don't actually believe him, but this headline is a hell of a thing: Top Senate Republican Mitch McConnell warns of possible bipartisanship on health care Oh no! Not the bipartisanship! Incoming!
And the most important story of the night comes from NPR: Beekeepers Feel the Sting of California’s Great Hive Heist:
I haven't seen a lot of talk about the immigration bills the House is voting on tomorrow. From the Post: Tougher immigration policies face first major legislative test of Trump era
The House bills, by contrast, aim to enact tougher enforcement policies. One bill, known as “Kate’s Law,” is named after Kate Steinle, the 32-year-old woman who was shot and killed in 2015 by an illegal immigrant who had been deported five times. The bill enhances penalties for convicted and deported criminals who reenter the United States illegally.These are pretty much just symbolic votes, as neither of these bills are getting 60 votes in the Senate anytime soon.
The other bill, called the No Sanctuary for Criminals Act, would bar some federal grants from so-called sanctuary cities that do not cooperate with federal immigration enforcement authorities and allow victims of crimes committed by illegal immigrants to sue those cities.
Also on immigration, new visa rules were announced in light of the Supreme Court's ruling. They, thankfully, aren't cancelling existing visas like they did before, but new visa applicants from the six countries along with all refugee applicants will have to prove a close familial or professional relationship with someone already in the US or a US entity to be eligible. Grandparents, aunts, and uncles, among others, aren't considered close enough, so remember that they're banning grandparents from seeing their American grandchildren when you hear Republicans talking about how they love to support families. I, for one, am still awaiting an answer as to what happened to the whole 90 day review thing.
In global news, Nikki Haley says: "Just 5 months into our time here, we've cut over half a billion $$$ from the UN peacekeeping budget & we’re only getting started." She also put her own tweet in quotation marks, which isn't how you're supposed to do this, though I am open to the possibility that she was quoting herself. More seriously, what kind of person walks around the world right now thinking "what we really need is less peacekeeping?"
In further health care news, unrelated to The Office, this is a really good op-ed in the NY Daily News out of the Harvard health policy group: Just how badly the Senate's health bill will eviscerate Medicaid: Understanding the devastating mechanics of the cuts. It digs into some of the details: states can opt to make people on Medicaid re-enroll every single month, and it stops the provision under which Medicaid would kick in immediately and pay your bill while you're applying for the program, which keeps you from racking up a giant bill while your application is processed. Hospitals will really hate that, because they rely on being able to make uninsured patients eligible for Medicaid sign up retroactively after treatment so they get paid something for their services.
And don't actually believe him, but this headline is a hell of a thing: Top Senate Republican Mitch McConnell warns of possible bipartisanship on health care Oh no! Not the bipartisanship! Incoming!
And the most important story of the night comes from NPR: Beekeepers Feel the Sting of California’s Great Hive Heist:
"There used to be kind of a code of honor that you didn't mess with another man's bees," Godlin says. But the alleged perpetrators of this giant hive theft broke that code.posted by zachlipton at 7:51 PM on June 28, 2017 [26 favorites]
"He went way, way over the line, Godlin says. "It's just, you know, heart breaking when you go out and your bees are gone."
And all of these stolen bees will attack Republican officeholders on July 4, right?
beepartisanship
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:59 PM on June 28, 2017 [25 favorites]
beepartisanship
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:59 PM on June 28, 2017 [25 favorites]
> beepartisanship
Oooooh say can you beeeeeee?
posted by tonycpsu at 8:02 PM on June 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
Oooooh say can you beeeeeee?
posted by tonycpsu at 8:02 PM on June 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
simply reducing the pay makes it harder to poor people to hold office and does nothing to make office-holding less attractive to rich people. it's a bad idea.
Ehh. $174,000 is plenty high to attract poor people. What makes it hard is the election process. There was that lady Kim Weaver, who was going to challenge Steve King of Iowa, and she decided not to and wrote this (link goes to facebook post) :
Above this, my personal health is an issue. In order to sufficiently devote myself to the campaign, I would have to quit my job and shift to campaigning full-time. With recent legislation on health insurance, I must admit that the possibility of seeking a new job after the election exposes too much of a risk for me in not being able to secure health insurance.
She also has kids and a sick mom she may be supporting, so the risk isn't just hers to take alone. She was also getting death threats, but I think it's quite likely that the prospect of losing health insurance and not being able to get her job back outweighed the fucking death threats.
And I swear to god it's not like this everywhere but fuck if I know where to start changing it.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 8:04 PM on June 28, 2017 [18 favorites]
Ehh. $174,000 is plenty high to attract poor people. What makes it hard is the election process. There was that lady Kim Weaver, who was going to challenge Steve King of Iowa, and she decided not to and wrote this (link goes to facebook post) :
Above this, my personal health is an issue. In order to sufficiently devote myself to the campaign, I would have to quit my job and shift to campaigning full-time. With recent legislation on health insurance, I must admit that the possibility of seeking a new job after the election exposes too much of a risk for me in not being able to secure health insurance.
She also has kids and a sick mom she may be supporting, so the risk isn't just hers to take alone. She was also getting death threats, but I think it's quite likely that the prospect of losing health insurance and not being able to get her job back outweighed the fucking death threats.
And I swear to god it's not like this everywhere but fuck if I know where to start changing it.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 8:04 PM on June 28, 2017 [18 favorites]
The hive of bees that spontaneously appeared in the walls of my ramshackle abode several weeks back is still there and furiously active. I posted on social media "Hive's still here if anybody wants it, otherwise can I get help extracting my trailer honey?" before realizing too late that I had just named my first alt-country album.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:05 PM on June 28, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:05 PM on June 28, 2017 [27 favorites]
I am sorry for what I have done to further the bee conversation, and am especially sorry the mods now have to compose a pithy bee-related pun to tell us to knock it off.
I will neither confirm nor deny that I posted a half dozen news links pretty much so I'd have an excuse to post the bee thing.
posted by zachlipton at 8:07 PM on June 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
I will neither confirm nor deny that I posted a half dozen news links pretty much so I'd have an excuse to post the bee thing.
posted by zachlipton at 8:07 PM on June 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
Mod note: Bee cool, people.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 8:08 PM on June 28, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 8:08 PM on June 28, 2017 [32 favorites]
ELECTIONS NEWS
** FYI, new issue of UPCOMING SPECIAL ELECTIONS tomorrow.
** 2018 Senate -- The GOP still doesn't have a major contender in Wisconsin, a state that should be a pickup opportunity for them. 2018 will still be a difficult year for Dems, but the lack of major GOP candidates in numerous states is becoming striking.
** ACHA polling -- Lots of polls showing GOP healthcare plan is very unpopular:
** FYI, new issue of UPCOMING SPECIAL ELECTIONS tomorrow.
** 2018 Senate -- The GOP still doesn't have a major contender in Wisconsin, a state that should be a pickup opportunity for them. 2018 will still be a difficult year for Dems, but the lack of major GOP candidates in numerous states is becoming striking.
** ACHA polling -- Lots of polls showing GOP healthcare plan is very unpopular:
-- Quinnipiac: 16% favorable, 58% favorable. Also: 46% say they are less likely to vote for supporters of the plan, 17% more likely, 33% who say the health care vote won’t matter in their decision.** Odds & ends:
-- Suffolk: 12% favorable, 45% unfavorable. 53% say don't repeal ACA, but leave alone or tweak.
-- Marist: 17% favorable, 55% unfavorable.
--Vanderbilt: In TN, 62% say keep/fix ACA. 38% say replace - down 12 since Nov. Note that Corker is up in '18.
-- Trump approval at -10 in Wisconsin.posted by Chrysostom at 8:10 PM on June 28, 2017 [22 favorites]
-- Marist has Dems with a 10 point lead on the generic ballot.
-- Interesting Kevin Drum on the pulled CA single payer bill. Seems like it just wasn't fully cooked yet.
-- Odd situation in CA-34. Jimmy Gomez won the special election back on June 6th, but he hasn't taken his seat in the House yet. He's delaying leaving the CA Assembly in order to vote on a cap-and-trade bill, and House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy is getting snippy about it. I'm not clear if there is a legal length of time he has to take the seat, though.
KY Governor Bevin signs HB 128 which forces schools to establish an elective bible study unit into public school.
Horrible, horrible news, but having been raised Evangelical, I actually see a potential (if negligible) silver lining here.
Two big problems with the Religious Right are 1) far too many of their adherents know fuck-all about what the Bible actually says, and 2) the Bible's never discussed outside of an echo chamber made up of people who interpret in a certain way. Oddly enough, a high percentage of people who leave fundamentalism report doing so as a result of 1) actually reading the Bible, and 2) being exposed to critiques of their beliefs outside of the bubble of their fellow believers.
So if Kentucky's stuck with this bullshit law? I hope it backfires, in the form of kids learning what the Bible actually says, making them better equipped to question it—and in the form of the "wrong" kinds of kids taking Bible class and presenting non-fundy points of view. (My real dream is that somehow the teachers could go whole hog and turn the classes into examinations of how the Bible actually came to be and the contradictions in it, but this is Kentucky we're talking about here.)
But seriously, fuck Bevin. I was lucky enough to leave Kentucky shortly after Rand Paul was elected; can't imagine living there now.
posted by Rykey at 8:13 PM on June 28, 2017 [16 favorites]
Horrible, horrible news, but having been raised Evangelical, I actually see a potential (if negligible) silver lining here.
Two big problems with the Religious Right are 1) far too many of their adherents know fuck-all about what the Bible actually says, and 2) the Bible's never discussed outside of an echo chamber made up of people who interpret in a certain way. Oddly enough, a high percentage of people who leave fundamentalism report doing so as a result of 1) actually reading the Bible, and 2) being exposed to critiques of their beliefs outside of the bubble of their fellow believers.
So if Kentucky's stuck with this bullshit law? I hope it backfires, in the form of kids learning what the Bible actually says, making them better equipped to question it—and in the form of the "wrong" kinds of kids taking Bible class and presenting non-fundy points of view. (My real dream is that somehow the teachers could go whole hog and turn the classes into examinations of how the Bible actually came to be and the contradictions in it, but this is Kentucky we're talking about here.)
But seriously, fuck Bevin. I was lucky enough to leave Kentucky shortly after Rand Paul was elected; can't imagine living there now.
posted by Rykey at 8:13 PM on June 28, 2017 [16 favorites]
Talez, that bible study thing is giving me PTSD flashbacks to Catholic school. I'm irrationally freaking out. This, coupled with the Roe v Wade backtracking, is making my country unrecognizable to me. I can't even adequately express it, so I'm crying. What is the matter with them? Why can't they see that separation of church and state is a good thing?? Like a defining characteristic of our country, even? I can't even reason with someone who thinks the country should be ruled according to the words of an invisible friend no one can prove exists!!
posted by greermahoney at 8:17 PM on June 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by greermahoney at 8:17 PM on June 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
Is there an elective Koran study?
posted by kirkaracha at 8:18 PM on June 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 8:18 PM on June 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
The Hamilton Mixtape: Immigrants (We Get The Job Done)
posted by kirkaracha at 8:23 PM on June 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 8:23 PM on June 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
-- Quinnipiac: 16% favorable, 58% favorable.
Assuming that second number should be unfavorable. Unless this is Trump spin where there is no such thing as unfavorable opinions of his stuff.
posted by greermahoney at 8:23 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Assuming that second number should be unfavorable. Unless this is Trump spin where there is no such thing as unfavorable opinions of his stuff.
posted by greermahoney at 8:23 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
My real dream is that somehow the teachers could go whole hog and turn the classes into examinations of how the Bible actually came to be and the contradictions in it, but this is Kentucky we're talking about here.
A legit theology class would be f-ing hilarious. A little bit of exegetical theology would have your average bright kid spinning rings around their parents and potentially also the local megachurch clergy (depending upon the strength of their education, those guys are usually more salesmen and motivational speakers than theologists). Then maybe some historical theology, showing the development of Christianity over time, and fundamentalism's wee history within it. It would be GLORIOUS.
Can we get them studying Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, as well?
posted by leotrotsky at 8:24 PM on June 28, 2017 [25 favorites]
A legit theology class would be f-ing hilarious. A little bit of exegetical theology would have your average bright kid spinning rings around their parents and potentially also the local megachurch clergy (depending upon the strength of their education, those guys are usually more salesmen and motivational speakers than theologists). Then maybe some historical theology, showing the development of Christianity over time, and fundamentalism's wee history within it. It would be GLORIOUS.
Can we get them studying Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, as well?
posted by leotrotsky at 8:24 PM on June 28, 2017 [25 favorites]
The bribery season has commenced. Politico: Beleaguered health care bill gets new terms in effort to secure votes. They're talking about an extra $45 billion for the opioid crisis and allowing people to use HSA funds to pay for premiums on the individual market. Neither of these change the basic economics of the bill, which is a tax cut for the rich paid for by cutting health care for the poor and middle class, and it's clear that special funds for opioid addiction treatment are not a substitute for health insurance, which provides for ongoing care.
Will this work? Let's find out.
posted by zachlipton at 8:30 PM on June 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
Will this work? Let's find out.
posted by zachlipton at 8:30 PM on June 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
greermahoney: "Assuming that second number should be unfavorable."
Sigh, yes. No matter how many times you proofread....
posted by Chrysostom at 8:37 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Sigh, yes. No matter how many times you proofread....
posted by Chrysostom at 8:37 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Nice line from the CNN piece: The President doesn't differentiate between investigations into Russian election meddling and investigations into potential collusion between Trump campaign associates and Russia, according to sources that have spoken to Trump about the issues.
This is totally something an innocent man would do. Remember in North by Northwest where Cary Grant becomes the victim of a vast conspiracy and spends the rest of the movie asking people not to bring it up because he's feeling so attacked right now guys
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:43 PM on June 28, 2017 [43 favorites]
This is totally something an innocent man would do. Remember in North by Northwest where Cary Grant becomes the victim of a vast conspiracy and spends the rest of the movie asking people not to bring it up because he's feeling so attacked right now guys
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:43 PM on June 28, 2017 [43 favorites]
Maybe he doesn't differentiate those investigations because there is no difference?
posted by Justinian at 8:46 PM on June 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 8:46 PM on June 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
Maybe that's your NxNW reference... someone may or may not have seen that movie. Don't yell at me.
posted by Justinian at 8:47 PM on June 28, 2017
posted by Justinian at 8:47 PM on June 28, 2017
The President doesn't differentiate between investigations into Russian election meddling and investigations into potential collusion between Trump campaign associates and Russia, according to sources that have spoken to Trump about the issues.
Well no, that much is obvious. And honestly, I do think it's the most plausible scenario of (relative) innocence on Trump's part. The only thing that matters to Trump is Trump. Like, to a mentally unbalanced degree. And so, because he's part of the investigation, that's all the investigation is about to him. And because the aspect of his involvement is even suggestively unflattering, the investigation is bad.
Trump has NPD. Every aspect of his behavior, in every scenario, makes sense, run through that filter. If people could get to a point where they de facto ran his decision making through that lens, the Donald Trump presidency would be a lot more understandable.
posted by Brak at 8:56 PM on June 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
Well no, that much is obvious. And honestly, I do think it's the most plausible scenario of (relative) innocence on Trump's part. The only thing that matters to Trump is Trump. Like, to a mentally unbalanced degree. And so, because he's part of the investigation, that's all the investigation is about to him. And because the aspect of his involvement is even suggestively unflattering, the investigation is bad.
Trump has NPD. Every aspect of his behavior, in every scenario, makes sense, run through that filter. If people could get to a point where they de facto ran his decision making through that lens, the Donald Trump presidency would be a lot more understandable.
posted by Brak at 8:56 PM on June 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
Chrysostom, Sigh, yes. No matter how many times you proofread....
I write for a living. You have all my understanding in this matter.
posted by greermahoney at 9:12 PM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
I write for a living. You have all my understanding in this matter.
posted by greermahoney at 9:12 PM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
The New Yorker: A Doctor’s View of Obamacare and Trumpcare from Rural Georgia
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:28 PM on June 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
“In all fairness, Obamacare, as much as I was for it—and I’m on it myself—didn’t affect us much at all. The first year it came out, southwest Georgia had the second-highest premium costs in the nation, after Vail, Colorado. And because not many people make enough to be allowed to buy into it, very few people around here signed up for it. We also were not allowed to be a provider, because people were allowed to pick and choose providers. Then, of course, Georgia did not expand Medicaid. That’s why about forty per cent of our patients are uninsured.Medicaid expansion is largely paid for by the federal government. A state's refusal to expand Medicaid is quite clearly based on a difference of ideology: should the government ensure people have access to affordable healthcare, or should the government just stay out of it and let the strong and the lucky survive? And, of course, it's based on the identity of the president who signed the law.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:28 PM on June 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
Glenn Greenwald can be really fucking annoying, but this piece, "CNN Journalists Resign: Latest Example of Media Recklessness on the Russia Threat," is outstanding, with plenty of examples and research:
The importance of this journalistic malfeasance when it comes to Russia, a nuclear-armed power, cannot be overstated. This is the story that has dominated U.S. politics for more than a year. Ratcheting up tensions between these two historically hostile powers is incredibly inflammatory and dangerous. All kinds of claims, no matter how little evidence there is to support them, have flooded U.S. political discourse and have been treated as proven fact.posted by Joseph Gurl at 10:09 PM on June 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
And that’s all independent of how journalistic recklessness fuels, and gives credence to, the Trump administration’s campaign to discredit journalism generally.
Isn't it a little on-the-nose that the article already has two corrections listed?
posted by greermahoney at 10:43 PM on June 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by greermahoney at 10:43 PM on June 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
No, not at all. Minor factual errors like who owns which paper can't be compared to a widespread, multi-outlet campaign that may well lead to war with Russia.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 10:45 PM on June 28, 2017
posted by Joseph Gurl at 10:45 PM on June 28, 2017
So the House, Senate, and Mueller investigations into this are driven by the "widespread, multi-outlet campaign" and not by all of our (and multiple other nations') intelligence agencies' unearthing of all sorts of smoke?
The press is clearly not hitting the bullseye during this tragic chapter of our nation's history, but Greenwald's driveby is no indictment of anything, other than his inability to find a story not gift-wrapped and hand-delivered to him. This article does not, indeed, rely on unnamed sources, but it does rely on the huge leaps of "logic" made by one Glenn Greenwald to make its editorial point that THE AMERICAN PRESS WANTS TO DRIVE US TO NUCLEAR WAR WITH RUSSIA O NOES!!
Please.
posted by riverlife at 10:57 PM on June 28, 2017 [28 favorites]
The press is clearly not hitting the bullseye during this tragic chapter of our nation's history, but Greenwald's driveby is no indictment of anything, other than his inability to find a story not gift-wrapped and hand-delivered to him. This article does not, indeed, rely on unnamed sources, but it does rely on the huge leaps of "logic" made by one Glenn Greenwald to make its editorial point that THE AMERICAN PRESS WANTS TO DRIVE US TO NUCLEAR WAR WITH RUSSIA O NOES!!
Please.
posted by riverlife at 10:57 PM on June 28, 2017 [28 favorites]
Yeah it's a good thing Greenwald has never been remotely involved in anything that might have recklessly given over a serious edge in global power plays to the Russians. Thank god we've got him as an impartial judge of all this shit.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:02 PM on June 28, 2017 [47 favorites]
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:02 PM on June 28, 2017 [47 favorites]
to make its editorial point that THE AMERICAN PRESS WANTS TO DRIVE US TO NUCLEAR WAR WITH RUSSIA O NOES!!
This is such a gross misreading that its only redemption is the humor produced by its location just after a claim of "huge leaps of 'logic'".
posted by Joseph Gurl at 11:12 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
This is such a gross misreading that its only redemption is the humor produced by its location just after a claim of "huge leaps of 'logic'".
posted by Joseph Gurl at 11:12 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
I mean, the article makes real claims and presents real evidence. If you want to criticize its reasoning, you have to do better than that.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 11:13 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Joseph Gurl at 11:13 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Glenn fucking Greenwald and his agenda led bullshit again? I'll give it a pass.
posted by Artw at 11:16 PM on June 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Artw at 11:16 PM on June 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
Glenn fucking Greenwald and his agenda led bullshit again? I'll give it a pass.
FAKE NEWS1!
posted by Joseph Gurl at 11:19 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
FAKE NEWS1!
posted by Joseph Gurl at 11:19 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
In every scandal there are stories that turn out to be false leads or misinterpreted; it does not mean there is no scandal and that it is simply a media narrative to sell papers (advertisements, what have you.) It does mean that rigor is absolutely required, and in that sense retractions and apologies are a good thing, not an indicator of anti-Russian hysteria.
Greenwald is just wrong that incorrect or retracted stories represent anything but journalists trying to make scoops, and in their fervor, mucking it up. Greenwald should know something about this as of late.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:29 PM on June 28, 2017 [22 favorites]
Greenwald is just wrong that incorrect or retracted stories represent anything but journalists trying to make scoops, and in their fervor, mucking it up. Greenwald should know something about this as of late.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:29 PM on June 28, 2017 [22 favorites]
the article makes real claims and presents real evidence
Sophists have done the same time for thousands of years, their claims and evidence have always been sophistry.
To "do better than that" on just one graf:
We wouldn't know these things. Unless we believed upon and accepted the authority of one Glenn Greenwald, and inferred them based upon the (yes, multiple) cherry-picked examples he'd strung together previously.
An author, a journalist, a sophist, anyone, can take a set of facts and make it tell their story. Greenwald excels at this. It's a story, a fictional story. We could think of any thing we wanted to argue, and then we could skillfully pull factual quotes, factual stories from various respected media, and string them together in just the right manner to appear to make our argument sound. Nice qualifying words and phrases do the heavy lifting of getting up the slippery slope. "Vast majority", "based exclusively", "evidence-free", "many, if not most", etc.
Though the first, what, 2/3 of the article read as news, it's the final 1/3 where the sophistry really comes into play, where the editorial nature of the article comes alive, and where the leaps of "logic", the manipulation of previously-stated facts and evidence--the sophistry--are brought to bear.
I apologize profoundly if my previous comment personally offended you Joseph Gurl, for that was not my intention (nor is it here). I am continuously frustrated by this polemicist Mr. Greenwald, offended really, and it's difficult to reign in sometimes. I enjoy you as a quite smart, valuable, and caustically hilarious MeFite, and wish no quarrel with you, I truly regret that my comment was personally offensive. I apologize for that, while wishing I had more clearly shown my intellectual contempt for the author.
And I'm the kind of person who would laugh and not be offended by your insulting me at this time.
posted by riverlife at 11:43 PM on June 28, 2017 [28 favorites]
Sophists have done the same time for thousands of years, their claims and evidence have always been sophistry.
To "do better than that" on just one graf:
"And then there is the fact that the vast majority of reporting about Russia, as well as Trump’s alleged ties to the Kremlin, has been based exclusively on evidence-free assertions of anonymous officials, many, if not most, of whom have concealed agendas. That means that they are free to issue completely false claims without the slightest concern of repercussions."Despite his multiple cherry-picked examples to lead to his pre-conceived conclusion, it is not a "fact" that the "vast majority of reporting about Russia" nor that about "Trump's alleged ties to the Kremlin...has been based exclusively on evidence-free assertions of anonymous officials". If we were to cede that it was a fact, how would we/he factually know that these same people had "concealed agendas", or, stretching further, that they "issue[d] completely false claims"?
We wouldn't know these things. Unless we believed upon and accepted the authority of one Glenn Greenwald, and inferred them based upon the (yes, multiple) cherry-picked examples he'd strung together previously.
An author, a journalist, a sophist, anyone, can take a set of facts and make it tell their story. Greenwald excels at this. It's a story, a fictional story. We could think of any thing we wanted to argue, and then we could skillfully pull factual quotes, factual stories from various respected media, and string them together in just the right manner to appear to make our argument sound. Nice qualifying words and phrases do the heavy lifting of getting up the slippery slope. "Vast majority", "based exclusively", "evidence-free", "many, if not most", etc.
Though the first, what, 2/3 of the article read as news, it's the final 1/3 where the sophistry really comes into play, where the editorial nature of the article comes alive, and where the leaps of "logic", the manipulation of previously-stated facts and evidence--the sophistry--are brought to bear.
I apologize profoundly if my previous comment personally offended you Joseph Gurl, for that was not my intention (nor is it here). I am continuously frustrated by this polemicist Mr. Greenwald, offended really, and it's difficult to reign in sometimes. I enjoy you as a quite smart, valuable, and caustically hilarious MeFite, and wish no quarrel with you, I truly regret that my comment was personally offensive. I apologize for that, while wishing I had more clearly shown my intellectual contempt for the author.
And I'm the kind of person who would laugh and not be offended by your insulting me at this time.
posted by riverlife at 11:43 PM on June 28, 2017 [28 favorites]
In every scandal there are stories that turn out to be false leads or misinterpreted
I don't quite remember Watergate, though I've studied it quite a bit, but I definitely remember Iran-Contra and Lewinski, and I don't recall anything like this occurring. During Clinton's presidency, as I recall, the phony scandals and false leads were pretty much confined to rightfully-disreputable far-right publications. Did I miss something? Wer WaPo or NYtimes reporting on the "VINCE FOSTER WAS MURDERIZED" or Whitewater bullshit, for example?
posted by Joseph Gurl at 11:43 PM on June 28, 2017
I don't quite remember Watergate, though I've studied it quite a bit, but I definitely remember Iran-Contra and Lewinski, and I don't recall anything like this occurring. During Clinton's presidency, as I recall, the phony scandals and false leads were pretty much confined to rightfully-disreputable far-right publications. Did I miss something? Wer WaPo or NYtimes reporting on the "VINCE FOSTER WAS MURDERIZED" or Whitewater bullshit, for example?
posted by Joseph Gurl at 11:43 PM on June 28, 2017
Greenwald's whole deal is that Hillary Clinton winning the presidency would have been the worst thing ever, so he'll go after any small crumb that suggests Putin and Trump are harmless and benign and not, you know, the utter fucking monsters that threaten us all right now. It's kind of pathetic really.
posted by Artw at 11:46 PM on June 28, 2017 [41 favorites]
posted by Artw at 11:46 PM on June 28, 2017 [41 favorites]
During Clinton's presidency, as I recall, the phony scandals and false leads were pretty much confined to rightfully-disreputable far-right publications.
I realize Media Matters has a clear agenda, but it backs up its assertions in at least this case with links to and cites from original sources. It's probably a good place to start for the whole shady history of the major newspapers, especially the NYT, re: Whitewater, Lewinsky, anything Clinton, really.
One example: "Tom Fiedler, who is now the dean of Boston University's College of Communication, described in a 1996 column how Gerth's Whitewater story was "almost incomprehensible," but "the fact that it appeared in so prestigious a paper as The New York Times insinuated that something must have been wrong. And that meant that every other baying hound in the pack had to give chase."
This info. is from the first hit in my search. I suspect there are volumes and, as noted, some books.
https://www.mediamatters.org/blog/2015/03/16/foxs-howard-kurtz-vouches-for-accuracy-of-flawe/202913
posted by kemrocken at 12:07 AM on June 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
I realize Media Matters has a clear agenda, but it backs up its assertions in at least this case with links to and cites from original sources. It's probably a good place to start for the whole shady history of the major newspapers, especially the NYT, re: Whitewater, Lewinsky, anything Clinton, really.
One example: "Tom Fiedler, who is now the dean of Boston University's College of Communication, described in a 1996 column how Gerth's Whitewater story was "almost incomprehensible," but "the fact that it appeared in so prestigious a paper as The New York Times insinuated that something must have been wrong. And that meant that every other baying hound in the pack had to give chase."
This info. is from the first hit in my search. I suspect there are volumes and, as noted, some books.
https://www.mediamatters.org/blog/2015/03/16/foxs-howard-kurtz-vouches-for-accuracy-of-flawe/202913
posted by kemrocken at 12:07 AM on June 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
I think the nonsense is quite widespread at the NYT throughout its history.
That is just the first of many Vince Foster stories.
posted by wobumingbai at 12:10 AM on June 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
That is just the first of many Vince Foster stories.
posted by wobumingbai at 12:10 AM on June 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
That story includes the line "investigators quickly reached an initial conclusion that Mr. Foster's death was probably a suicide."
posted by Joseph Gurl at 12:14 AM on June 29, 2017
posted by Joseph Gurl at 12:14 AM on June 29, 2017
Hey has Greenwald/The Intercept released any more mealy mouthed statements on throwing a source under the bus, now that Reality Winner is going to trial?
posted by PenDevil at 12:15 AM on June 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 12:15 AM on June 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
I don't quite remember Watergate, though I've studied it quite a bit, but I definitely remember Iran-Contra and Lewinski, and I don't recall anything like this occurring
In fact Woodward and Bernstein made two errors in their Watergate reporting that if treated like CNN would've ended their investigation and employment at WaPo and probably kept Watergate from being broken. They wrongfully accused three people on the front page of the 10/6/73 Post of receiving the information from the illegal wiretapping when they hadn't and were not involved. And they reported that Hugh Sloan had told the grand jury that Haldeman controlled the slush fund like he had told them. He hadn't.
People make mistakes in uncovering huge, complex, secretive stories. It doesn't make them reckless, incompetent or partisan. It makes them humans doing a very tough job exposing the most powerful person in the world.
posted by chris24 at 12:18 AM on June 29, 2017 [88 favorites]
In fact Woodward and Bernstein made two errors in their Watergate reporting that if treated like CNN would've ended their investigation and employment at WaPo and probably kept Watergate from being broken. They wrongfully accused three people on the front page of the 10/6/73 Post of receiving the information from the illegal wiretapping when they hadn't and were not involved. And they reported that Hugh Sloan had told the grand jury that Haldeman controlled the slush fund like he had told them. He hadn't.
People make mistakes in uncovering huge, complex, secretive stories. It doesn't make them reckless, incompetent or partisan. It makes them humans doing a very tough job exposing the most powerful person in the world.
posted by chris24 at 12:18 AM on June 29, 2017 [88 favorites]
Hey has Greenwald/The Intercept released any more mealy mouthed statements on throwing a source under the bus, now that Reality Winner is going to trial?
That has nothing to do with this article, but how'd they throw her under the bus? (If you're thinking about the yellow printer dots, that's not how she was caught.)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 12:21 AM on June 29, 2017
That has nothing to do with this article, but how'd they throw her under the bus? (If you're thinking about the yellow printer dots, that's not how she was caught.)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 12:21 AM on June 29, 2017
Yes it contains that line, but they decided to write about many "suspicious" things in that and following articles presumably because reporting the controversy sells more papers than reporting only the tragic suicide and letting go of the controversy.
posted by wobumingbai at 12:23 AM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by wobumingbai at 12:23 AM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
NY Times: An F.B.I. affidavit said a visible crease mark on the file, a scan of which The Intercept provided to the government while trying to authenticate it, prompted investigators to surmise it was a printout.
Why did the Intercept show the NSA a copy of the original file? Why not transcribe the information?
posted by PenDevil at 12:29 AM on June 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
Why did the Intercept show the NSA a copy of the original file? Why not transcribe the information?
posted by PenDevil at 12:29 AM on June 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
Yeah we have absolutely no sources but anonymous ones about Russia, if you completely discount every single intelligence agency, President Obama, the former head of the FBI and head of the CIA and a bunch of people who have testified to Congress. If you discount all of the people who have the ability to know, yes we've got nothing.
Sorry, no fucking patience for Greenwald and his BS.
posted by threeturtles at 1:51 AM on June 29, 2017 [62 favorites]
Sorry, no fucking patience for Greenwald and his BS.
posted by threeturtles at 1:51 AM on June 29, 2017 [62 favorites]
I'm having one of those nights where all the bad things are percolating to the surface and leaving me with a palpable sense of despair again. It doesn't happen often, but man, when it does...
I guess I just have to speak what is demonstrably bad - say it out loud again - so I can dispel these demons. Again, I'm afraid. And again. And again.
1. Our country is being led by an incompetent, authoritarian, misogynist, racist, narcissist grifter and his corrupt henchmen. He was elected with two million fewer votes than his opponent. He was elected despite being recorded on video admitting he was a sexual predator, and despite repeated examples of his being a pathological liar. All of our nation's intelligence services have stated on the record that one of our country's most adversarial geopolitical opponents engaged in hacking our election to favor his election.
2. Our Vice President is an arch-bigot, Commander Waterford-esque theocrat who, by his own admission, is so weak-willed and presumably sexually predatory that he can't allow himself to be in the room alone with a woman lest he be tempted to adulterous behavior. "Women's Issues" policy and legislation are being determined by committees composed exclusively of men. Reproductive choice is being legislated away, bit by bit.
3. The majority of our elected representatives are of a political party that enjoys less than a majority of support in the country, but nevertheless hold power by virtue of racially oppressive gerrymandering and voter suppression, as well as their corrupt alignment with wealthy interests. They simply refused to consider a Supreme Court nominee for nearly a year, to allow our current President to choose one. They are currently doing their best to strip health insurance from 23 million of our fellow citizens so they can give that money to already rich people.
4. A sizable part of our citizenry supports that attempt, despite proclaiming themselves devoutly religious followers of a leader who commanded them to sacrifice for the good of others, to care for the sick and poor, and to eschew riches in favor of following his teachings.
5. Acts of overt fascism are again fashionable. Like a deadly fungus that has been slowly growing beneath the soil - stretching forth its tendrils out of sight - until a nurturing rain causes it to burst forth in toxic fruit. A sizable part of our citizenry supports these acts, despite proclaiming themselves devout followers of the nation's founding creed which enshrines the urgency and importance of liberty.
6. A sizable part of our citizenry still thinks that "I can't be a bigot, I have friends who are ____" is a valid way to immunize themselves from the taint of bigotry. They argue that the country's Civil War was about "States' Rights" but adamantly refuse to consider: the States' rights to do what? They think it is perfectly reasonable policing to shoot an unarmed man in the back while he is running away, or seize a man's personal property without due process, or kill a woman who has called them asking for help, as long as it's not one of their own tribe. They call attempts to draw attention to these gross injustices "divisive".
7. We are still at war - the longest war of our nation's history - with no sign of it ending and no criteria for saying when it should. Our leaders still have people imprisoned outside of our country's borders so they can technically avoid extending them common Constitutional protections. They believe that torture is acceptable, as long as it isn't called by that name. And the man who authored the legal rationale for torture - who actually said that it would be okay for a torturer to crush the testicles of a prisoner's son in front of him in order to gain information - is still employed as a professor at a prestigious university.
This is not right.
Our country - our society - is very sick. I don't know what the treatment is for this kind of sickness.
I just had to write all that down, again. I don't know that it helps, but it feels less like I'm going crazy when I can just write it down.
posted by darkstar at 2:34 AM on June 29, 2017 [119 favorites]
I guess I just have to speak what is demonstrably bad - say it out loud again - so I can dispel these demons. Again, I'm afraid. And again. And again.
1. Our country is being led by an incompetent, authoritarian, misogynist, racist, narcissist grifter and his corrupt henchmen. He was elected with two million fewer votes than his opponent. He was elected despite being recorded on video admitting he was a sexual predator, and despite repeated examples of his being a pathological liar. All of our nation's intelligence services have stated on the record that one of our country's most adversarial geopolitical opponents engaged in hacking our election to favor his election.
2. Our Vice President is an arch-bigot, Commander Waterford-esque theocrat who, by his own admission, is so weak-willed and presumably sexually predatory that he can't allow himself to be in the room alone with a woman lest he be tempted to adulterous behavior. "Women's Issues" policy and legislation are being determined by committees composed exclusively of men. Reproductive choice is being legislated away, bit by bit.
3. The majority of our elected representatives are of a political party that enjoys less than a majority of support in the country, but nevertheless hold power by virtue of racially oppressive gerrymandering and voter suppression, as well as their corrupt alignment with wealthy interests. They simply refused to consider a Supreme Court nominee for nearly a year, to allow our current President to choose one. They are currently doing their best to strip health insurance from 23 million of our fellow citizens so they can give that money to already rich people.
4. A sizable part of our citizenry supports that attempt, despite proclaiming themselves devoutly religious followers of a leader who commanded them to sacrifice for the good of others, to care for the sick and poor, and to eschew riches in favor of following his teachings.
5. Acts of overt fascism are again fashionable. Like a deadly fungus that has been slowly growing beneath the soil - stretching forth its tendrils out of sight - until a nurturing rain causes it to burst forth in toxic fruit. A sizable part of our citizenry supports these acts, despite proclaiming themselves devout followers of the nation's founding creed which enshrines the urgency and importance of liberty.
6. A sizable part of our citizenry still thinks that "I can't be a bigot, I have friends who are ____" is a valid way to immunize themselves from the taint of bigotry. They argue that the country's Civil War was about "States' Rights" but adamantly refuse to consider: the States' rights to do what? They think it is perfectly reasonable policing to shoot an unarmed man in the back while he is running away, or seize a man's personal property without due process, or kill a woman who has called them asking for help, as long as it's not one of their own tribe. They call attempts to draw attention to these gross injustices "divisive".
7. We are still at war - the longest war of our nation's history - with no sign of it ending and no criteria for saying when it should. Our leaders still have people imprisoned outside of our country's borders so they can technically avoid extending them common Constitutional protections. They believe that torture is acceptable, as long as it isn't called by that name. And the man who authored the legal rationale for torture - who actually said that it would be okay for a torturer to crush the testicles of a prisoner's son in front of him in order to gain information - is still employed as a professor at a prestigious university.
This is not right.
Our country - our society - is very sick. I don't know what the treatment is for this kind of sickness.
I just had to write all that down, again. I don't know that it helps, but it feels less like I'm going crazy when I can just write it down.
posted by darkstar at 2:34 AM on June 29, 2017 [119 favorites]
Trump has NPD. Every aspect of his behavior, in every scenario, makes sense, run through that filter.
It's true, and yet every fricative burp that emanates from his bewigged mug is followed by breathless attempts at interpretation by all. Rachel Maddow knows better . . Many talking heads know better, and yet here we are diligently tuning in for such misguided reads, so that we may use the misguided reads as the "real" meaning.
To act otherwise would be a world of expressionless, blinking talking heads - united by the understanding that Trump Ain't Right and we are well along the path of serious fuckage. Beyond the craven reign of Dum Dubya and the Dicks. Beyond Reagan, wide to the right, overshot by a good 370 miles.
And here we are, fresh and pressed and ready to carry on with being a well-intentioned, wealthy nation of laws, gathered around a sociopathic unctuous crater. As vapors swirl around this crooked hole we click our pens and ready the mics, but for what? No light can come from it except to be pulled back in and destroyed again.
posted by petebest at 3:38 AM on June 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
It's true, and yet every fricative burp that emanates from his bewigged mug is followed by breathless attempts at interpretation by all. Rachel Maddow knows better . . Many talking heads know better, and yet here we are diligently tuning in for such misguided reads, so that we may use the misguided reads as the "real" meaning.
To act otherwise would be a world of expressionless, blinking talking heads - united by the understanding that Trump Ain't Right and we are well along the path of serious fuckage. Beyond the craven reign of Dum Dubya and the Dicks. Beyond Reagan, wide to the right, overshot by a good 370 miles.
And here we are, fresh and pressed and ready to carry on with being a well-intentioned, wealthy nation of laws, gathered around a sociopathic unctuous crater. As vapors swirl around this crooked hole we click our pens and ready the mics, but for what? No light can come from it except to be pulled back in and destroyed again.
posted by petebest at 3:38 AM on June 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
E.P.A. Official Pressured Scientist on Congressional Testimony, Emails Show NYT article by Coral Davenport (her twitter, it doesn't look like she tweets all the time, but all her articles in the NYTimes are good).
WASHINGTON — The Environmental Protection Agency’s chief of staff pressured the top scientist on the agency’s scientific review board to alter her congressional testimony and play down the dismissal of expert advisers, his emails show.
Deborah Swackhamer, an environmental chemist who leads the E.P.A.’s Board of Scientific Counselors, was to testify on May 23 before the House Science Committee on the role of states in environmental policy when Ryan Jackson, the E.P.A.’s chief of staff, asked her to stick to the agency’s “talking points” on the dismissals of several members of the scientific board.
“I was stunned that he was pushing me to ‘correct’ something in my testimony,” said Dr. Swackhamer, a retired University of Minnesota professor. “I was factual, and he was not. I felt bullied.”
...
Dr. Swackhamer made her emails with Mr. Jackson available to the committee’s Democrats. On Monday, the panel’s Democrats, led by the ranking member, Eddie Bernice Johnson of Texas, sent a letter to Mr. Pruitt expressing concern that Mr. Jackson’s attempt to shape Dr. Swackhamer’s testimony may have been improper or even illegal. The Democrats requested that the agency’s inspector general investigate the matter.
“We contend that Mr. Jackson, and perhaps other senior E.P.A. employees, attempted to interfere with the testimony of an independent scientist to the Science Committee and may have sought to mislead Congress,” they wrote.
I saw that hearing. Dr. Swackhamer didn't mention the pressure. Staffing of scientific advisory boards (especially environmental) with either nobody (ie; Energy, Interior and Presidential) or stack it with industry representatives (EPA) ... it felt like a return to Bush era where political loyalty trumps all.
It also held some pirouetting Republican logic. Rep. Loudermilk (R-Georgia) recalled the Apollo program and remembered many scientists saying, that based on the data, going to the moon was impossible. But America landed on the moon anyway and proved the scientists wrong. And applying common sense to that fact, who can really say if scientists aren't wrong in interpretation of environmental data currently.
With scientists discredited he went from whirl to leap. All regulation cost companies money, which is then passed on to consumers or rate payers. So having industry representatives with "real world experience" to provide scientific advice on environmental regulations will benefit the disproportionally affected ... poor people ... cutting science is an act of love ... Tadaaaa!
posted by phoque at 4:41 AM on June 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
WASHINGTON — The Environmental Protection Agency’s chief of staff pressured the top scientist on the agency’s scientific review board to alter her congressional testimony and play down the dismissal of expert advisers, his emails show.
Deborah Swackhamer, an environmental chemist who leads the E.P.A.’s Board of Scientific Counselors, was to testify on May 23 before the House Science Committee on the role of states in environmental policy when Ryan Jackson, the E.P.A.’s chief of staff, asked her to stick to the agency’s “talking points” on the dismissals of several members of the scientific board.
“I was stunned that he was pushing me to ‘correct’ something in my testimony,” said Dr. Swackhamer, a retired University of Minnesota professor. “I was factual, and he was not. I felt bullied.”
...
Dr. Swackhamer made her emails with Mr. Jackson available to the committee’s Democrats. On Monday, the panel’s Democrats, led by the ranking member, Eddie Bernice Johnson of Texas, sent a letter to Mr. Pruitt expressing concern that Mr. Jackson’s attempt to shape Dr. Swackhamer’s testimony may have been improper or even illegal. The Democrats requested that the agency’s inspector general investigate the matter.
“We contend that Mr. Jackson, and perhaps other senior E.P.A. employees, attempted to interfere with the testimony of an independent scientist to the Science Committee and may have sought to mislead Congress,” they wrote.
I saw that hearing. Dr. Swackhamer didn't mention the pressure. Staffing of scientific advisory boards (especially environmental) with either nobody (ie; Energy, Interior and Presidential) or stack it with industry representatives (EPA) ... it felt like a return to Bush era where political loyalty trumps all.
It also held some pirouetting Republican logic. Rep. Loudermilk (R-Georgia) recalled the Apollo program and remembered many scientists saying, that based on the data, going to the moon was impossible. But America landed on the moon anyway and proved the scientists wrong. And applying common sense to that fact, who can really say if scientists aren't wrong in interpretation of environmental data currently.
With scientists discredited he went from whirl to leap. All regulation cost companies money, which is then passed on to consumers or rate payers. So having industry representatives with "real world experience" to provide scientific advice on environmental regulations will benefit the disproportionally affected ... poor people ... cutting science is an act of love ... Tadaaaa!
posted by phoque at 4:41 AM on June 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
More news from the shit swamp of NC, kids:
House GOP is going after our Sec of State, Elaine Marshall. This woman is tough as nails, and one of the few good ones we have. I met her at a fundraiser a couple years ago and came away wishing we had 100 more just like her to stand up to these fucking assholes.
But Wait! There's more!
House GOP denied Gov Cooper's veto of their irresponsible state budget. Same song: we'll get the middle class tax cuts [while putting us about $600M in the hole]. These fucking goddamn ASSHOLES. And I'm sorry but they are ALL. WHITE. OLD. MEN.
posted by yoga at 4:43 AM on June 29, 2017 [18 favorites]
House GOP is going after our Sec of State, Elaine Marshall. This woman is tough as nails, and one of the few good ones we have. I met her at a fundraiser a couple years ago and came away wishing we had 100 more just like her to stand up to these fucking assholes.
But Wait! There's more!
House GOP denied Gov Cooper's veto of their irresponsible state budget. Same song: we'll get the middle class tax cuts [while putting us about $600M in the hole]. These fucking goddamn ASSHOLES. And I'm sorry but they are ALL. WHITE. OLD. MEN.
posted by yoga at 4:43 AM on June 29, 2017 [18 favorites]
Sean Sullivan, Juliet Eilperin and Kelsey Snell / WaPo: McConnell is trying to revise the Senate health-care bill by Friday
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell is aiming to send a revised version of his health-care bill to the Congressional Budget Office as soon as Friday as he continues to push for a vote before Congress’s August recess.posted by ZeusHumms at 6:07 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
The effort reflects the tight timeline McConnell faces in his attempt to hold a vote in July — and the pressure he is under to change the bill to garner enough support to pass it. With both conservatives and centrists pushing different policy solutions, Senate leaders were struggling to craft a rewrite of the Affordable Care Act on Wednesday that would attract votes without torpedoing the CBO’s official score of how the legislation affects coverage levels and federal spending.
Trump has NPD.
Actually, I think this is what you're after.
posted by sour cream at 6:07 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Actually, I think this is what you're after.
posted by sour cream at 6:07 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Anyone care to interpret this latest burst of incoherence from the Orange one?
> I heard poorly rated @Morning_Joe speaks badly of me (don't watch anymore). Then how come low I.Q. Crazy Mika, along with Psycho Joe, came..
> ..to Mar-a-Lago 3 nights in a row around New Year's Eve, and insisted on joining me. She was bleeding badly from a face-lift. I said no!
posted by stonepharisee at 6:08 AM on June 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
> I heard poorly rated @Morning_Joe speaks badly of me (don't watch anymore). Then how come low I.Q. Crazy Mika, along with Psycho Joe, came..
> ..to Mar-a-Lago 3 nights in a row around New Year's Eve, and insisted on joining me. She was bleeding badly from a face-lift. I said no!
posted by stonepharisee at 6:08 AM on June 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
Those tweets holy fucking shit
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:16 AM on June 29, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:16 AM on June 29, 2017 [25 favorites]
The President of the USA tweets and speaks to the world.
posted by Mister Bijou at 6:18 AM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Mister Bijou at 6:18 AM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
This is an altogether new level of incoherence, venom, irrationality, and debasement.
posted by stonepharisee at 6:20 AM on June 29, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by stonepharisee at 6:20 AM on June 29, 2017 [34 favorites]
James Hohmann/WaPo: The Daily 202: Even sweeping the suburbs would not be enough for Democrats to win the House majority
THE BIG IDEA: To win the House majority in the midterms, Democrats will need to make big gains with suburban voters, defend incumbents in rural districts where President Trump remains popular, topple a handful of Republicans in the Sun Belt and probably win a handful of seats that still aren’t on anyone’s radar.posted by ZeusHumms at 6:20 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
...
Third Way did a deep dive to try to understand what the 2018 playing field will look like. The center-left think tank focused on 65 “Majority Makers,” the battlegrounds where a majority would most likely be won. Using 48 Census data points, two experts from the moderate group looked at variables such as how many people moved into a district over the past year, what percentage of residents have access to broadband Internet and how many houses are vacant.
... Their report, shared first with The Daily 202, includes a rich data set (in a downloadable Excel file) so you can play around with the metrics for yourself.
...
“The most important takeaway is that there is no one kind of voter or district that can deliver the House for Democrats in 2018,” said Lanae Erickson Hatalsky, the vice president for social policy and politics at Third Way. “There’s been a lot of focus on suburban districts. There’s no doubt that those are important, but there are not enough of them to win the House.”
Hatalsky, who co-authored the report with Ryan Pougiales, emphasized that Democrats still would not win the House even if they could get every single 2016 Clinton voter who backed a Republican House candidate to turn out again in 2018 and cross over.
“You can’t get to a House majority without winning over Trump voters,” she said. “There are some people who definitely want to believe that they can because they still don’t know how to deal with Trump voters and are intimidated by the idea of appealing to them.”
Of course Third Way is trying to advocate that Democrats move to the right to reach out to Trump voters instead of presenting a meaningful left option to bring in the many people that didn't bother to vote last time.
posted by One Second Before Awakening at 6:26 AM on June 29, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by One Second Before Awakening at 6:26 AM on June 29, 2017 [26 favorites]
> I heard poorly rated @Morning_Joe speaks badly of me (don't watch anymore). Then how come low I.Q. Crazy Mika, along with Psycho Joe, came..
> ..to Mar-a-Lago 3 nights in a row around New Year's Eve, and insisted on joining me. She was bleeding badly from a face-lift. I said no!
Wow ... just ... wow.
Why isn't every journalist in the country asking the obvious of every single Republican they meet:
"Do think this behavior is presidential?"
"Do support Trump's behavior?"
"Do think this is normal?"
"Is there a point at which you personally would say: 'Enough is enough'? When?"
Let the wince, let them be a character witness and let them get on record defending the indefensible.
posted by sour cream at 6:32 AM on June 29, 2017 [63 favorites]
> ..to Mar-a-Lago 3 nights in a row around New Year's Eve, and insisted on joining me. She was bleeding badly from a face-lift. I said no!
Wow ... just ... wow.
Why isn't every journalist in the country asking the obvious of every single Republican they meet:
"Do think this behavior is presidential?"
"Do support Trump's behavior?"
"Do think this is normal?"
"Is there a point at which you personally would say: 'Enough is enough'? When?"
Let the wince, let them be a character witness and let them get on record defending the indefensible.
posted by sour cream at 6:32 AM on June 29, 2017 [63 favorites]
“You can’t get to a House majority without winning over Trump voters,” she said. “There are some people who definitely want to believe that they can because they still don’t know how to deal with Trump voters and are intimidated by the idea of appealing to them.”
There's a difference between winning over 2016-Trump-Voters and people who currently support Trump and/or view him favorably. He's already down to 36%; the GOP's legislative plank for the past 7 years has a 12% approval rating; we've already won over a lot of them.
Shouldn't Third Way be out demonizing welfare recipients and helping imprison drug users or something? Or have they changed their core purpose recently?
posted by melissasaurus at 6:32 AM on June 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
There's a difference between winning over 2016-Trump-Voters and people who currently support Trump and/or view him favorably. He's already down to 36%; the GOP's legislative plank for the past 7 years has a 12% approval rating; we've already won over a lot of them.
Shouldn't Third Way be out demonizing welfare recipients and helping imprison drug users or something? Or have they changed their core purpose recently?
posted by melissasaurus at 6:32 AM on June 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
First, I am astounding proud of us making it 9 days. Second, Mika tweeted a box of cheerios that said Made for Small Hands, in case you're not willing to go to Twitter. Third, Oh My God, he has some obsession with women's bodily functions. I'm quite certain that no one wants to hang out with you while they're "bleeding badly", Don.
What is any of this even?
posted by Sophie1 at 6:33 AM on June 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
What is any of this even?
posted by Sophie1 at 6:33 AM on June 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
I don't think a dude who has rat's nest stapled to his head should be dissing cosmetic surgery on anyone else.
posted by PenDevil at 6:35 AM on June 29, 2017 [53 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 6:35 AM on June 29, 2017 [53 favorites]
“You can’t get to a House majority without winning over Trump voters,” she said. “There are some people who definitely want to believe that they can because they still don’t know how to deal with Trump voters and are intimidated by the idea of appealing to them.”
A great deal of those Trump voters were self admittedly voting against Hillary. So I think that battle is half won already.
posted by rc3spencer at 6:36 AM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
A great deal of those Trump voters were self admittedly voting against Hillary. So I think that battle is half won already.
posted by rc3spencer at 6:36 AM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
the "third way" is implementing republican policy but feeling just awful about it, right?
posted by murphy slaw at 6:39 AM on June 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 6:39 AM on June 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
> “The most important takeaway is that there is no one kind of voter or district that can deliver the House for Democrats in 2018,”
How often is this not true? Of any election, for any party?
posted by klarck at 6:40 AM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
How often is this not true? Of any election, for any party?
posted by klarck at 6:40 AM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
At this point, I'm sincerely wondering if Dan Scavino (White House social media director) isn't completely on-board with this whole "Oh, he's SO CRAAAZZZY!" thing. Let's assume that they're continuing to do this purposefully, as some kind of social media strategy... This is a campaign tactic.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:42 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:42 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Jesus, I can't imagine doing hallucinogens at this particular moment.
Psychedelics are almost irrelevant in a town where you can wander in a casino any time in the day or night and witness the crucifixion of a gorilla.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:48 AM on June 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
Psychedelics are almost irrelevant in a town where you can wander in a casino any time in the day or night and witness the crucifixion of a gorilla.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:48 AM on June 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
all i could find is this reference to a gorilla crucifixion in a former london church (no picture)
maybe this is just too weird ...
posted by pyramid termite at 6:53 AM on June 29, 2017
maybe this is just too weird ...
posted by pyramid termite at 6:53 AM on June 29, 2017
Oh, i guess I don't have to wonder much about my earlier question.
These tweets are about 30 minutes apart. [SLTwitter Screencap].
img1: dan scavino ranting about mika and joe.
img2: potus ranting about mika and joe.
Well then.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:56 AM on June 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
These tweets are about 30 minutes apart. [SLTwitter Screencap].
img1: dan scavino ranting about mika and joe.
img2: potus ranting about mika and joe.
Well then.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:56 AM on June 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
Let's assume that they're continuing to do this purposefully, as some kind of social media strategy... This is a campaign tactic.
Why assume that? To do so would be to allow that:
a) They hold some kind of sway over Predisent Monkey-With-A-Gun
b) They are able to focus enough to execute on a strategy with a delayed payoff
c) They *want* to do this for seven more years
d) They're not blackout drunk right now
Conclusion: Trump's a sociopath with a Twiiterphone. Corporate news are managed by the same. It's up to the collective us either way.
posted by petebest at 6:58 AM on June 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
Why assume that? To do so would be to allow that:
a) They hold some kind of sway over Predisent Monkey-With-A-Gun
b) They are able to focus enough to execute on a strategy with a delayed payoff
c) They *want* to do this for seven more years
d) They're not blackout drunk right now
Conclusion: Trump's a sociopath with a Twiiterphone. Corporate news are managed by the same. It's up to the collective us either way.
posted by petebest at 6:58 AM on June 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
Let's get down to brass tacks. How much for the ape?
posted by delfin at 7:01 AM on June 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by delfin at 7:01 AM on June 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
“The most important takeaway is that there is no one kind of voter or district that can deliver the House for Democrats in 2018,”Not only does this sound like a platitude masquerading as profundity, I think it misses the fact that as there's no one kind of Democratic voter, there's no one kind of "Trump voter," either.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:02 AM on June 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
It's also part of why, I think, he's so preoccupied with press coverage, rather than with issues:
Reagan. Yes he had actual experience and what I wouldn't give to trade DTS for the 1980 model, but that's why the acting was a *thing*. People's spidey-senses were tingling.
posted by petebest at 7:07 AM on June 29, 2017
Reagan. Yes he had actual experience and what I wouldn't give to trade DTS for the 1980 model, but that's why the acting was a *thing*. People's spidey-senses were tingling.
posted by petebest at 7:07 AM on June 29, 2017
MetaFilter: an altogether new level of incoherence, venom, irrationality, and debasement
posted by kirkaracha at 7:19 AM on June 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 7:19 AM on June 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
all i could find is this reference to a gorilla crucifixion in a former london church (no picture)
If memory serves me correctly, octobersurprise was referring to a line from Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas by Hunter S. Thompson.
It occurs to me that Fear and Loathing is an even more apt term now than ever. I can only imagine what Doctor Thompson would have had to say about this dumpster fire of an administration.
posted by Gelatin at 7:19 AM on June 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
If memory serves me correctly, octobersurprise was referring to a line from Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas by Hunter S. Thompson.
It occurs to me that Fear and Loathing is an even more apt term now than ever. I can only imagine what Doctor Thompson would have had to say about this dumpster fire of an administration.
posted by Gelatin at 7:19 AM on June 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
I don't know if even Hunter S. Thompson could help us now. Times like these call for Spider Jerusalem.
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:22 AM on June 29, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:22 AM on June 29, 2017 [19 favorites]
I suspect that's really his ultimate end: it's not a campaign tactic because he's not doing it for the campaign
The Trump "Administration" is hard to explicate because there are so many different people using their own strategies to pursue their own goals. At the top, Donnie is only interested in what gratifies his own vanities. I see no evidence that he believes or wants anything more than to simply keep filled his own pit of narcissistic need. Below him, tho, are the dozens or hundreds of people who jockey to weaponize that ravenous need. Add to that the degree to which the personal is really the political with all of these guys and you have a prescription for just the kind of rolling dumpster fire that burns every day.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:38 AM on June 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
The Trump "Administration" is hard to explicate because there are so many different people using their own strategies to pursue their own goals. At the top, Donnie is only interested in what gratifies his own vanities. I see no evidence that he believes or wants anything more than to simply keep filled his own pit of narcissistic need. Below him, tho, are the dozens or hundreds of people who jockey to weaponize that ravenous need. Add to that the degree to which the personal is really the political with all of these guys and you have a prescription for just the kind of rolling dumpster fire that burns every day.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:38 AM on June 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
The United States is allied with Qatar; it has built a major military base there and has thousands of troops stationed in the country. It remains unclear if Trump knows or cares.
I don't know why Tillerson is still around when it's clear some Saudi prince has more sway over US foreign policy than he does.
posted by PenDevil at 7:39 AM on June 29, 2017 [14 favorites]
I don't know why Tillerson is still around when it's clear some Saudi prince has more sway over US foreign policy than he does.
posted by PenDevil at 7:39 AM on June 29, 2017 [14 favorites]
Mod note: Couple comments removed; really really reconsider speculating about someone's suicide for narrative effect.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:43 AM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:43 AM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Fox News is full of stuff about Trump and North Korea, what is going on for real?
posted by agregoli at 7:46 AM on June 29, 2017
posted by agregoli at 7:46 AM on June 29, 2017
The Trump "Administration" is hard to explicate because there are so many different people using their own strategies to pursue their own goals. At the top, Donnie is only interested in what gratifies his own vanities. I see no evidence that he believes or wants anything more than to simply keep filled his own pit of narcissistic need. Below him, tho, are the dozens or hundreds of people who jockey to weaponize that ravenous need. Add to that the degree to which the personal is really the political with all of these guys and you have a prescription for just the kind of rolling dumpster fire that burns every day.
This^. The best, and only needed examination of WH efforts and policy, A vain shark, and a thousand lampreys. We are the naked swimmer at the top of the poster. Some cheer the shark, some flee in revulsion and fear, some shout 'Shark!'. But all are potential victims, depending on the shark's attention and appetite.
posted by rc3spencer at 7:49 AM on June 29, 2017 [14 favorites]
This^. The best, and only needed examination of WH efforts and policy, A vain shark, and a thousand lampreys. We are the naked swimmer at the top of the poster. Some cheer the shark, some flee in revulsion and fear, some shout 'Shark!'. But all are potential victims, depending on the shark's attention and appetite.
posted by rc3spencer at 7:49 AM on June 29, 2017 [14 favorites]
> I mean, the article makes real claims and presents real evidence. If you want to criticize its reasoning, you have to do better than that.
I linked to a post doing precisely that above. Greenwald's post would have been unremarkable had it admonished CNN for their recklessness and noted other instances of outlets making major mistakes, but that's not Glenn's style. Instead, every journalistic mistake is evidence of a vast conspiracy to inflame tensions with Russia, every minor correction is a symptom of this conspiracy, and journalistic mistakes that undercut his premise are ignored.
There is a kernel of truth to what Greenwald is saying about the media's carelessness, but when an authoritarian cracks down on the free flow of information, anonymous sources are the only sources. In a choice between sketchy information collected through back channels and no information at all, I'll reluctantly choose the former and hope that gadflies like Greenwald push those outlets for the truth, no matter what that truth is. Sadly, Glenn seems to have a soft spot for certain narratives and no interest in others.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:49 AM on June 29, 2017 [27 favorites]
I linked to a post doing precisely that above. Greenwald's post would have been unremarkable had it admonished CNN for their recklessness and noted other instances of outlets making major mistakes, but that's not Glenn's style. Instead, every journalistic mistake is evidence of a vast conspiracy to inflame tensions with Russia, every minor correction is a symptom of this conspiracy, and journalistic mistakes that undercut his premise are ignored.
There is a kernel of truth to what Greenwald is saying about the media's carelessness, but when an authoritarian cracks down on the free flow of information, anonymous sources are the only sources. In a choice between sketchy information collected through back channels and no information at all, I'll reluctantly choose the former and hope that gadflies like Greenwald push those outlets for the truth, no matter what that truth is. Sadly, Glenn seems to have a soft spot for certain narratives and no interest in others.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:49 AM on June 29, 2017 [27 favorites]
I don't know if even Hunter S. Thompson could help us now. Times like these call for Spider Jerusalem.
Can you imagine what a nightmare a bowel disruptor would be for a home pooper like Trump?
The only issue I take with the parallels to Transmet is that Trump is nowhere near as competent and intelligent as The Smiler. He is more Fred Christ with a wig.
posted by phearlez at 7:53 AM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Can you imagine what a nightmare a bowel disruptor would be for a home pooper like Trump?
The only issue I take with the parallels to Transmet is that Trump is nowhere near as competent and intelligent as The Smiler. He is more Fred Christ with a wig.
posted by phearlez at 7:53 AM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Times like these call for Spider Jerusalem.
The way this timeline is going I would not be at all surprised if somebody constructed a real life bowel disruptor and deployed it against Trump on live TV, and if that was the thing that finally turned public opinion against him.
posted by contraption at 7:55 AM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
The way this timeline is going I would not be at all surprised if somebody constructed a real life bowel disruptor and deployed it against Trump on live TV, and if that was the thing that finally turned public opinion against him.
posted by contraption at 7:55 AM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
In summary, we don't cotton to Glenn Greenwald in these parts.
posted by diogenes at 7:57 AM on June 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 7:57 AM on June 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
One more for the "I'm glad we got the incompetent Nazis" file:
You know how it usually goes: Republicans are extreme and relentlessly partisan, Democrats make regular outreach efforts, but when Democrats decide to stand up and fight for their own ideas, they're accused of excessive partisanship.posted by tonycpsu at 8:01 AM on June 29, 2017 [40 favorites]
This is a boilerplate mainstream-media narrative. An alternative narrative is that both sides are to blame for partisanship, but Democrats are somehow worse.
However, because Donald Trump is so terrible at his job, it's now permissible to argue that excessive partisanship is the fault onf Republicans. At least that's what's happening in this New York Times story by Jennifer Steinhauer. Start with the headline:Senate Democrats Sought to Work With Trump. Then He Began Governing.No, you're not hallucinating. Democrats are getting credit for outreach. And Republicans are portrayed as the partisan party. [...]
GOP tax, budget, and health-care proposals would have been just as extreme under President Scott Walker or President Jeb Bush -- but their administrations would have managed the narrative much more skillfully, and Democrats would have received much more of the blame for any turbulence. It's Trump's fault that Republicans look like the bad guys for once in the mainstream press, but I'll take it.
Greenwald's training is in the law. He's an advocate, not a journalist.
posted by notyou at 8:05 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by notyou at 8:05 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
unremarkable had it admonished CNN for their recklessness
Would one of you savvy elites link the cached article? It's annoying that in a world of daily outrages and desecrations we aren't allowed to read an article that was pulled because reasons.
posted by petebest at 8:17 AM on June 29, 2017
Would one of you savvy elites link the cached article? It's annoying that in a world of daily outrages and desecrations we aren't allowed to read an article that was pulled because reasons.
posted by petebest at 8:17 AM on June 29, 2017
phearlez: "He is more Fred Christ with a wig."
Huh. Fred Christ is literally his father's name.
posted by mhum at 8:23 AM on June 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
Huh. Fred Christ is literally his father's name.
posted by mhum at 8:23 AM on June 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
Trumps's tweet about Morning Joe and Mika is not going down at all well with Fox News spinner A B Stoddard. I paraphrase: "Obama got all kinds of flack from Rush Limbaugh for eight years and never responded. Trump's tweet? If he wants to tweet like that he should leave the presidency and get a job on talk radio."
posted by Mister Bijou at 8:23 AM on June 29, 2017 [75 favorites]
posted by Mister Bijou at 8:23 AM on June 29, 2017 [75 favorites]
If our hopes for foreign policy are pinned on the stability and experience of Sleepy Tillerson we are truly fucked.
posted by Artw at 8:25 AM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 8:25 AM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
I don't know why Tillerson is still around when it's clear some Saudi prince has more sway over US foreign policy than he does.
He said in at least one interview that the real deciding factor in taking the job was his wife. She pushed him to take it and told him "God's not done with you." (Paraphrasing from memory but it's close.) Look at everything this dude is dealing with, and look at what he came from. Dude was ready to retire and spend time with the grandkids and all that. He doesn't need more money or more power plays. He was the CEO of goddamn Exxon and look at him now.
The only thing that explains this to me is the push of some intensely personal factor. In this case, it seems to be his wife. I'm not gonna guess exactly what their relationship is like and god knows I've done crazy shit for love (and from being manipulated by that). But there he is, from the top of freakin' Exxon to this.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:40 AM on June 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
He said in at least one interview that the real deciding factor in taking the job was his wife. She pushed him to take it and told him "God's not done with you." (Paraphrasing from memory but it's close.) Look at everything this dude is dealing with, and look at what he came from. Dude was ready to retire and spend time with the grandkids and all that. He doesn't need more money or more power plays. He was the CEO of goddamn Exxon and look at him now.
The only thing that explains this to me is the push of some intensely personal factor. In this case, it seems to be his wife. I'm not gonna guess exactly what their relationship is like and god knows I've done crazy shit for love (and from being manipulated by that). But there he is, from the top of freakin' Exxon to this.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:40 AM on June 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
Feeling frustrated that you can't harangue a Republican Senator? Get your Democratic one to do it for you! Have my most firebrand letter [yet] to send their way!
Please convey to Dean Heller, Lisa Murkowski, Shelly Moore Capito, Robert Portman, Susan Collins, William Cassidy, and Ronald Johnson that if they vote for this disgusting healthcare bill, the 65 million of who voted for Secretary Clinton, as well as Americans of other political inclinations, will forever remember them and their staffs as complicit in Mitch McConnell's murderous healthcare nightmare.posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:42 AM on June 29, 2017 [55 favorites]
If they think they can get away with throwing 22 million people off insurance, destroying Medicaid, eviscerating requirements to cover pre-existing conditions, weakening employer-provided insurance, imploding rural healthcare systems, and forcing hard-working people pay much more for much worse coverage, they are gravely mistaken.
All across the nation, decent, hard-working people across the political spectrum are waiting for them to cave and show their true, cowardly, sycophantic natures. Much like Lady MacBeth, they will never be able to scrub out the damned wash of blood and stench of abject cruelty that will cling to them until the end of their lives.
In order to avoid such infamy and ignominy, all they must do is refuse to pass any sort of legislation that results in any loss of healthcare coverage for Americans. That's all.
If they do not, we will tie them and their images so irrevocably the orgy of death that will follow this bills passage, with memes, words, and visual art, that they will never escape our collective wrath at being the targets of their death spree.
Thank you for your excellent work in defending our healthcare. You make us all proud.
Sincerely,
[Your Name]
Melania Trump modeled in US prior to getting work visa. AP report citing an abundance of documentation.
posted by stonepharisee at 8:42 AM on June 29, 2017 [44 favorites]
posted by stonepharisee at 8:42 AM on June 29, 2017 [44 favorites]
@PeterAlexander
NEW: Asked abt FLOTUS' anti-cyberbullying effort, spox says Melania's "continuing to be thoughtful abt her platform." More announcements TK.posted by kirkaracha at 8:43 AM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Huh. Fred Christ is literally his father's name.
This whole "we're living in a simulation" idea has gotten shit tons of traction with me in the last 12 months or so.
posted by middleclasstool at 8:46 AM on June 29, 2017 [17 favorites]
This whole "we're living in a simulation" idea has gotten shit tons of traction with me in the last 12 months or so.
posted by middleclasstool at 8:46 AM on June 29, 2017 [17 favorites]
> Melania Trump modeled in US prior to getting work visa. AP report citing an abundance of documentation.
LOCK HER UP!
(Did I do that right?)
posted by tonycpsu at 8:46 AM on June 29, 2017 [17 favorites]
LOCK HER UP!
(Did I do that right?)
posted by tonycpsu at 8:46 AM on June 29, 2017 [17 favorites]
Excommunicated Cardinal, you give me life.
posted by greermahoney at 8:47 AM on June 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by greermahoney at 8:47 AM on June 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
It is highly unlikely that the discovery will affect the citizenship status of Mrs. Trump. The government can seek to revoke the U.S. citizenship of immigrants after the fact in cases when it determines a person willfully misrepresented or concealed facts relevant to his naturalization. But the government effectively does this in only the most egregious cases, such as instances involving terrorism or war crimes.
I mean, I don't know what else you'd call enabling Trump's election.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:51 AM on June 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
I mean, I don't know what else you'd call enabling Trump's election.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:51 AM on June 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
(Did I do that right?)
No. Because that's not the law works.
posted by Talez at 8:52 AM on June 29, 2017
No. Because that's not the law works.
posted by Talez at 8:52 AM on June 29, 2017
> No. Because that's not the law works.
It's how it would work if her husband had his way. Well, for immigrants other than the ones he has a use for.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:55 AM on June 29, 2017
It's how it would work if her husband had his way. Well, for immigrants other than the ones he has a use for.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:55 AM on June 29, 2017
So, it looks like the House Appropriations Committee just adopted Rep. Barbara Lee's amendment repealing the AUMF. Per twitter "room full of 'wow's after."
Not sure if this is meant to act as a poison pill for the overall appropriations bill or if it has a chance of actually being passed by the House.
posted by melissasaurus at 8:57 AM on June 29, 2017 [34 favorites]
Not sure if this is meant to act as a poison pill for the overall appropriations bill or if it has a chance of actually being passed by the House.
posted by melissasaurus at 8:57 AM on June 29, 2017 [34 favorites]
Excommunicated Cardinal, you give me life.
Aww thank you! All of you here in these threads are a huge piece of my inspiration and energy to keep fighting--your thoughtful words, life stories, incisive commentary, and unceasing will to keep going in these the darkest times of my life light a fire in the heart of this humble wordsmith.
<3333333
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:59 AM on June 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
Aww thank you! All of you here in these threads are a huge piece of my inspiration and energy to keep fighting--your thoughtful words, life stories, incisive commentary, and unceasing will to keep going in these the darkest times of my life light a fire in the heart of this humble wordsmith.
<3333333
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:59 AM on June 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
rc3spencer: This^. The best, and only needed examination of WH efforts and policy, A vain shark, and a thousand lampreys.
This being MeFi, my first reflex was to make the exceedingly pedantic point that remoras are the ones that stick to sharks, while lampreys tend to prey on freshwater fish (though I know they're in saltwater too, pedants gonna pedant). But while remoras are generally harmless to their hosts, lampreys attach themselves tenaciously with their suckerlike mouths and spend their lives extracting the host's precious bodily fluids. Given the current assortment of charlatans and grifters infesting the White House, on further review I'd say you got the analogy exactly right.
posted by hangashore at 8:59 AM on June 29, 2017 [14 favorites]
This being MeFi, my first reflex was to make the exceedingly pedantic point that remoras are the ones that stick to sharks, while lampreys tend to prey on freshwater fish (though I know they're in saltwater too, pedants gonna pedant). But while remoras are generally harmless to their hosts, lampreys attach themselves tenaciously with their suckerlike mouths and spend their lives extracting the host's precious bodily fluids. Given the current assortment of charlatans and grifters infesting the White House, on further review I'd say you got the analogy exactly right.
posted by hangashore at 8:59 AM on June 29, 2017 [14 favorites]
(regardless, I think this means the AUMF repeal will be debated on the floor by the full House now, which is a step in the right direction)
posted by melissasaurus at 9:00 AM on June 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 9:00 AM on June 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
> Is it really a "caricature" if it is literally what they're doing? I mean, we don't normally call perfect photographic reproductions "caricatures". Someone might look like a caricature because their features are so comically exaggerated. But I don't think we would call their own reflection in a mirror a "caricature".
Ezra Klein: It turns out the liberal caricature of conservatism is correct
Ezra Klein: It turns out the liberal caricature of conservatism is correct
Republicans, in other words, have repeatedly broken their promises and defied public opinion in order to release health care bills that cut spending on the poorest Americans to fund massive tax cuts for the richest Americans. (The Tax Policy Center estimates that 44.6 percent of the Senate bill’s tax cuts go to households making more than $875,000.)posted by tonycpsu at 9:04 AM on June 29, 2017 [49 favorites]
If they would simply stop doing that, their health care problems would vanish: They could craft a bill that would rebuild the health care system around more conservative principles and do so without triggering massive coverage losses. But at some point, we need to take them at their word: This is what they believe, and they are willing to risk everything — their reputations, their congressional majorities, and Donald Trump’s presidency — to get it done.
And it’s not just health policy. Though Trump said he would raise taxes on people like himself during the campaign, the tax reform plan he released amounted to a massive tax cut for the richest Americans. That cut will ultimately have to be paid for, and because Republicans refuse to increase taxes to close deficits, and because they support increasing spending on the military, the only plausible way to pay for their tax cuts will be by slashing programs that serve the poor and/or the elderly. (This isn’t just hypothetical: Trump’s budget relies on massive cuts to programs that serve the poor.)
Like Thiessen, I want to see a better, more decent conservatism drive the Republican Party. I don’t want to believe that this is the bottom line of GOP policy thinking. But this is clearly the bottom line of GOP policy thinking.
Statement from Melania's spokesperson regarding the Mika tweets, in case anyone was clinging to her as a victim.
@JDiamond1: .@StephGrisham45: "As the First Lady has stated publicly in the past, when her husband gets attacked, he will punch back 10 times harder."
posted by chris24 at 9:04 AM on June 29, 2017 [14 favorites]
@JDiamond1: .@StephGrisham45: "As the First Lady has stated publicly in the past, when her husband gets attacked, he will punch back 10 times harder."
posted by chris24 at 9:04 AM on June 29, 2017 [14 favorites]
Feeling frustrated that you can't harangue a Republican Senator?
For anyone who uses Ex. Cardinal's excellent letter template, please add Jerry Moran (KS). He's a typical feckless GOP Senator, but he's got two things going for him: he's been brave enough to hold recent town halls with a new one scheduled, and the pressure has been getting to him. He may not have principles, but he seems to quite afraid of this bill. Announced his opposition after the vote was called off, which isn't the height of courage but good enough for now. He could use some further encouragement from his Democratic colleagues.
posted by honestcoyote at 9:07 AM on June 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
For anyone who uses Ex. Cardinal's excellent letter template, please add Jerry Moran (KS). He's a typical feckless GOP Senator, but he's got two things going for him: he's been brave enough to hold recent town halls with a new one scheduled, and the pressure has been getting to him. He may not have principles, but he seems to quite afraid of this bill. Announced his opposition after the vote was called off, which isn't the height of courage but good enough for now. He could use some further encouragement from his Democratic colleagues.
posted by honestcoyote at 9:07 AM on June 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
GOP Will Scrap Repeal of Investment Tax in Health Bill, Senator Says: from bloomberg.com
The Tennessee Republican said the decision to retain Obamacare’s 3.8 percent tax on net investment income would help Republicans boost subsidies for low-income people in the individual exchanges.posted by orangutan at 9:08 AM on June 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
"We are going to figure out a way, I believe, before Friday comes to greatly enhance the ability of lower income citizens to buy insurance on the exchange and at the same time my sense is that the 3.8 percent is going to go away," he told reporters. "It’s not an acceptable proposition to have a bill that increases the burden on lower-income citizens and lessons the burden on wealthy citizens."
Corker’s remarks came after several Senate Republicans began to question Wednesday whether the bill should be repealing so many taxes on wealthy Americans when the legislation would scale back subsidies for the poor.
So, it looks like the House Appropriations Committee just adopted Rep. Barbara Lee's amendment repealing the AUMF. Per twitter "room full of 'wow's after."
WOW
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:11 AM on June 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
WOW
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:11 AM on June 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
AUMF = Authorization for Use of Military Force
posted by thelonius at 9:23 AM on June 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 9:23 AM on June 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
For those of you without the time or inclination, and those of you recklessly driv- lookout! Er, others, AUMF=Authorization for Use of Military Force
This committee vote to repeal being specific to Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Terrorists
The Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF), Pub. L. 107-40, codified at 115 Stat. 224 and passed as S.J.Res. 23 by the United States Congress on September 14, 2001, authorizes the use of United States Armed Forces against those responsible for the attacks on September 11, 2001 and any "associated forces". The authorization granted the President the authority to use all "necessary and appropriate force" against those whom he determined "planned, authorized, committed or aided" the September 11th attacks, or who harbored said persons or groups.
The AUMF was signed by President George W. Bush on September 18, 2001. As of December 2016, the Office of the President published a brief interpreting the AUMF as providing Congressional authorization for the use of force against al-Qaeda and other Islamic militant groups.[1][2]
posted by petebest at 9:24 AM on June 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
This committee vote to repeal being specific to Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Terrorists
The Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF), Pub. L. 107-40, codified at 115 Stat. 224 and passed as S.J.Res. 23 by the United States Congress on September 14, 2001, authorizes the use of United States Armed Forces against those responsible for the attacks on September 11, 2001 and any "associated forces". The authorization granted the President the authority to use all "necessary and appropriate force" against those whom he determined "planned, authorized, committed or aided" the September 11th attacks, or who harbored said persons or groups.
The AUMF was signed by President George W. Bush on September 18, 2001. As of December 2016, the Office of the President published a brief interpreting the AUMF as providing Congressional authorization for the use of force against al-Qaeda and other Islamic militant groups.[1][2]
posted by petebest at 9:24 AM on June 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
Note that this is the post-9/11 AUMF, not the Iraq AUMF.
posted by Etrigan at 9:25 AM on June 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 9:25 AM on June 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
Sarah Huckabee Sanders' defense on Fox this morning is as gross as you'd expect. Or grosser. Just transcribing this made me feel like a worse person.
ShS: "Look, I don't think that the president's ever been someone who gets attacked and doesn't push back. There have been an outrageous number of personal attacks - not just to him, but frankly to everyone around him. People on that show have personally attacked me many times. This is a president who fights fire with fire, and certainly will not be allowed to be bullied by liberal media, and liberal elites within the media, or Hollywood or anywhere else. [just say the Jews, Sarah]
HOST: I get it, but is...is that necessary?
ShS: Look, I think what's necessary is to push back against unnecessary attacks on the president, both personally - I've seen far worse things come out of that show - again, not just directed at the president, but everyone around him - personal attacks, mean, hateful attacks - and again this president isn't gonna sit back and not push back, and he's gonna fight fire with fire and I think that's exactly -
HOST: I've heard that from you and I've heard that from him, but it just seems like it's entirely more personal than it needs to be, and I'm wondering if you'd like to address that.
ShS: [more of Trump being outrageously bullied by Morning Joe and how they've been so mean to Sarah herself and how poor little most powerful man in the world is just trying to protect his soft and fragile underbelly from Cruella de Brzezinski]
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:26 AM on June 29, 2017 [18 favorites]
ShS: "Look, I don't think that the president's ever been someone who gets attacked and doesn't push back. There have been an outrageous number of personal attacks - not just to him, but frankly to everyone around him. People on that show have personally attacked me many times. This is a president who fights fire with fire, and certainly will not be allowed to be bullied by liberal media, and liberal elites within the media, or Hollywood or anywhere else. [just say the Jews, Sarah]
HOST: I get it, but is...is that necessary?
ShS: Look, I think what's necessary is to push back against unnecessary attacks on the president, both personally - I've seen far worse things come out of that show - again, not just directed at the president, but everyone around him - personal attacks, mean, hateful attacks - and again this president isn't gonna sit back and not push back, and he's gonna fight fire with fire and I think that's exactly -
HOST: I've heard that from you and I've heard that from him, but it just seems like it's entirely more personal than it needs to be, and I'm wondering if you'd like to address that.
ShS: [more of Trump being outrageously bullied by Morning Joe and how they've been so mean to Sarah herself and how poor little most powerful man in the world is just trying to protect his soft and fragile underbelly from Cruella de Brzezinski]
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:26 AM on June 29, 2017 [18 favorites]
Good catchup on the sole voice and her fight against the US need for unlimited war.
posted by rc3spencer at 9:27 AM on June 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by rc3spencer at 9:27 AM on June 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
> Like Thiessen, I want to see a better, more decent conservatism drive the Republican Party.
Asking for a better, more decent conservatism is like asking for a rounder square with fewer corners. Conservatism is an inherently indecent ideology; if you're looking for decency, you need to look elsewhere.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:31 AM on June 29, 2017 [31 favorites]
Asking for a better, more decent conservatism is like asking for a rounder square with fewer corners. Conservatism is an inherently indecent ideology; if you're looking for decency, you need to look elsewhere.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:31 AM on June 29, 2017 [31 favorites]
I see Trump's loss of popularity as being a war of attrition against his followers. Little by little, sliver by sliver.
The last time I went to a Republican fundraising party I would say 50% of the women over forty had very obvious rictus plastic surgery. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it's their choice. But by attacking that, Trump has peeled off a thin layer of his supporters.
Maybe Melania will get on this, with her crusade against cyber-bullying.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 9:31 AM on June 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
The last time I went to a Republican fundraising party I would say 50% of the women over forty had very obvious rictus plastic surgery. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it's their choice. But by attacking that, Trump has peeled off a thin layer of his supporters.
Maybe Melania will get on this, with her crusade against cyber-bullying.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 9:31 AM on June 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
The Cubs Got To Watch Donald Trump Point And Talk
TRUMP: Let’s go over to the Oval—the Oval Office. Where’s Dan? Where’s Dan Gilbert? He was right outside, grab him. Where’s Dan? Dan Gilbert just came in. He’s the basketball—he’s looking for a good basketball player. Anyone play basketball? Let’s go over to—where’s Dan Gilbert? Come here, Dan. Come here, Dan. You want eh, uh, come over here. You want a good baseball player to play basketball? So Dan owns the Cavaliers, and I would say, I guess you can’t say great season, right? Good season. Last year was a great season, right? Anyway.The Cubs' White House Visit With Donald Trump Went in a Bizarre Direction
Getting to hold up a custom jersey was an apparent source of delight for the president. Even though the Cubs are plodding through a mediocre season, he called them a "great team," while making sure to remind everyone that the Cubs were at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue a mere five months ago for the more formal celebration of their title while President Obama was still in office.posted by kirkaracha at 9:33 AM on June 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
"They were actually here, but they wanted to be here with Trump," Trump said.
I guess you can add Mika to the list of women who turned Donald down
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:34 AM on June 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:34 AM on June 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
hey so on the one hand some useless spraytanned twerp whose name slips my mind at the moment is trying to get in a reality tv battle with some cable news celebrity on cnn or fox or whatever. pretty boring.
but on the other hand Barbara Lee, the best member of the house of representatives, just got an amendment calling for the repeal of the AUMF through, and that's super interesting. do people have links with more details?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:35 AM on June 29, 2017 [30 favorites]
but on the other hand Barbara Lee, the best member of the house of representatives, just got an amendment calling for the repeal of the AUMF through, and that's super interesting. do people have links with more details?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:35 AM on June 29, 2017 [30 favorites]
It sounds like ShS (thanks for that RM!) is winning the race to be the President's new spox.
posted by notyou at 9:35 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by notyou at 9:35 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
"It’s not an acceptable proposition to have a bill that increases the burden on lower-income citizens and lessens the burden on wealthy citizens."
Paul Ryan just had a seizure and Grover Norquist just shat out his entire skeleton
posted by delfin at 9:36 AM on June 29, 2017 [67 favorites]
Paul Ryan just had a seizure and Grover Norquist just shat out his entire skeleton
posted by delfin at 9:36 AM on June 29, 2017 [67 favorites]
But by attacking that, Trump has peeled off a thin layer of his supporters
I see he's already campaigning for reelection under the banner of the Flayed Man.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 9:40 AM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
I see he's already campaigning for reelection under the banner of the Flayed Man.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 9:40 AM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Asking for a better, more decent conservatism is like asking for a rounder squar with fewer corners. Conservatism is an inherently indecent ideology; if you're looking for decency, you need to look elsewhere.
Quibbling about who counts as belonging in the "decent" pile vs the "indecent" pile seems pointless, but OMG the US would be better off with a stereotypical Christian Democratic party replacing the Republicans.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:44 AM on June 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
Quibbling about who counts as belonging in the "decent" pile vs the "indecent" pile seems pointless, but OMG the US would be better off with a stereotypical Christian Democratic party replacing the Republicans.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:44 AM on June 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
And it’s not just health policy. Though Trump said he would raise taxes on people like himself during the campaign, the tax reform plan he released amounted to a massive tax cut for the richest Americans.
Oh Ezra, you miss the obvious interpretation. Trump said people like himself. This plan may indeed cut taxes on real billionaires but raise taxes on people who claim to have tons of money but are actually leveraged to the point where they have less wealth than the average middle-class person with a paid-for 5 year old Ford.
posted by phearlez at 9:50 AM on June 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
Oh Ezra, you miss the obvious interpretation. Trump said people like himself. This plan may indeed cut taxes on real billionaires but raise taxes on people who claim to have tons of money but are actually leveraged to the point where they have less wealth than the average middle-class person with a paid-for 5 year old Ford.
posted by phearlez at 9:50 AM on June 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
Dylan Scott for Vox: Ted Cruz has a big idea that just might unlock a Senate health care deal
Here’s how the Texas senator described his plan, in his own words, on Wednesday:posted by OnceUponATime at 9:56 AM on June 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
If an insurance company offers at least one plan in the state that is compliant with the (Obamacare) mandates, that company can also sell any additional plan that consumers desire.
What that does is it maintains the existing protections, but it gives consumers additional new options above and beyond of what they can purchase today.
[...]
The fundamental problem is sicker people would be drawn to the more robust Obamacare plans, while healthier people would gravitate toward the skimpier non-Obamacare coverage. That’s a reality that even Cruz acknowledges.
Then inside the Obamacare market, as more and more sick people buy coverage there, costs for health insurers go up and so they increase premiums. It has the makings of a classic death spiral. Because only sick people remain, premiums eventually increase to astronomic levels. It turns the Obamacare exchanges into a high-risk pool.
[...]
If McConnell adopted the proposal — Cruz’s office declined to comment on the ongoing Senate negotiations — it could start knocking over dominoes that would bring Republicans closer to consensus on a health care bill.
Update from Arizona here. I've called McCain and Flake's different offices repeatedly. I've found that staffers seem to be more patient and more responsive to personal stories. It got their attention when I told them that a friend of mine posted on Facebook asking us to call because she had a baby born premature at 24 weeks and is concerned about lifetime coverage caps.
That message has a couple of important subtexts: 1.) We're calling in for personal reasons, not because Indivisible told us to jam their switchboards, and 2.) many people who aren't calling also saw that same personal appeal on Facebook, and those non-callers also know that my friend's financial stability and her child's health are imperiled by the Republican healthcare bill.
I also related an anecdote about my elderly grandmother, who at some point will likely be in a nursing home. "I'm concerned because I think Medicaid pays for a lot of this late-life care," I said, and the staffer was sufficiently engaged with my call to confirm that yes, Medicare actually does pay for this really important thing.
The more stories, the better. If no one on Facebook has asked you to call for personal reasons, reach out and ask your friends: How will this affect you? Why should I call? This will affect millions of people and there is no shortage of true stories to tell.
Both McCain's and Flake's staffers said that neither have decided how to vote, and both are still studying the bill. McCain's staffers again emphasized that he is meeting with Governor Ducey and other state leaders, and that he is "concerned" (I know) about the speed at which things are happening. If you're in Arizona, keep calling. If you're anywhere — keep calling.
A couple other notes: The latest episodes of Politically Reactive and On The Media were both good. Politically Reactive had a good interview with Janet Mock, and she makes a great case that resisting Trump is not enough; there needs to be an agenda beyond that. If all we do is resist Trump, even if we win all of our fights we're basically right where we were in October 2016, in the world that gave us a Trump presidency.
The latest episode of On the Media opened up with a good story about gerrymandering. For anyone who is discouraged about the GA-06 loss, it contains this quote from an expert on gerrymandering:
It's not an accident that one of Obama's post-presidency priorities is on undoing the damage caused by 2010's gerrymandering. I read something a while ago about IIRC a four-path approach to this for 2020, where the Democratic Party intends to focus not only on specific gubernatorial races, but also on state attorney general races in places where the state AG oversees redistricting. I don't recall exactly, but I would guess that state houses and court battles would be the other two paths to redistricting victories. If anyone can find a supporting link, I would be super happy.
The Republicans are not shy about this. Here is how they describe, in a publicly released report, what they did in Michigan in 2010, and how it helped them in 2012:
posted by compartment at 10:11 AM on June 29, 2017 [91 favorites]
That message has a couple of important subtexts: 1.) We're calling in for personal reasons, not because Indivisible told us to jam their switchboards, and 2.) many people who aren't calling also saw that same personal appeal on Facebook, and those non-callers also know that my friend's financial stability and her child's health are imperiled by the Republican healthcare bill.
I also related an anecdote about my elderly grandmother, who at some point will likely be in a nursing home. "I'm concerned because I think Medicaid pays for a lot of this late-life care," I said, and the staffer was sufficiently engaged with my call to confirm that yes, Medicare actually does pay for this really important thing.
The more stories, the better. If no one on Facebook has asked you to call for personal reasons, reach out and ask your friends: How will this affect you? Why should I call? This will affect millions of people and there is no shortage of true stories to tell.
Both McCain's and Flake's staffers said that neither have decided how to vote, and both are still studying the bill. McCain's staffers again emphasized that he is meeting with Governor Ducey and other state leaders, and that he is "concerned" (I know) about the speed at which things are happening. If you're in Arizona, keep calling. If you're anywhere — keep calling.
A couple other notes: The latest episodes of Politically Reactive and On The Media were both good. Politically Reactive had a good interview with Janet Mock, and she makes a great case that resisting Trump is not enough; there needs to be an agenda beyond that. If all we do is resist Trump, even if we win all of our fights we're basically right where we were in October 2016, in the world that gave us a Trump presidency.
The latest episode of On the Media opened up with a good story about gerrymandering. For anyone who is discouraged about the GA-06 loss, it contains this quote from an expert on gerrymandering:
Pay no attention to the fool’s gold like Georgia’s 6th. If the Democrats want a road back, there is one right in front of them. It is the governors’ races in these wildly gerrymandered states, the 2017 governor’s race in Virginia, and there are five governors’ races next year in Ohio, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Florida, all states were governors have veto power over the maps that the legislature draws; 2020 could actually be over for the Democrats before it starts, if they don't wake up and focus on the right races. They need to understand that spending $30 million on Georgia’s 6th squanders an awful lot of time and resources. It is a Band-Aid when the party is bleeding out. Something changed in 2010. It has broken our politics in a very serious way. It has made it dysfunctional and more extreme and not representative in the way that it is supposed to be. And the press is doing us a disservice in the way it's covered.The same expert has a book out and was interviewed last year on Politically Reactive, if you want more on the topic.
It's not an accident that one of Obama's post-presidency priorities is on undoing the damage caused by 2010's gerrymandering. I read something a while ago about IIRC a four-path approach to this for 2020, where the Democratic Party intends to focus not only on specific gubernatorial races, but also on state attorney general races in places where the state AG oversees redistricting. I don't recall exactly, but I would guess that state houses and court battles would be the other two paths to redistricting victories. If anyone can find a supporting link, I would be super happy.
The Republicans are not shy about this. Here is how they describe, in a publicly released report, what they did in Michigan in 2010, and how it helped them in 2012:
The effectiveness of REDMAP is perhaps most clear in the state of Michigan. In 2010, the RSLC put $1 million into state legislative races, contributing to a GOP pick-up of 20 seats in the House and Republican majorities in both the House and Senate. Republican Rick Snyder won the gubernatorial race, and with it Republicans gained control of redrawing Michigan’s 148 legislative and 14 congressional districts. The 2012 election was a huge success for Democrats at the statewide level in Michigan: voters elected a Democratic U.S. Senator by more than 20 points and reelected President Obama by almost 10 points. But Republicans at the state level maintained majorities in both chambers of the legislature and voters elected a 9-5 Republican majority to represent them in Congress.Anyway, to recap:
- Call your senators' offices. Relate personal stories that people asked you to call about.
- If you don't have any ACA-related stories to share, ask on Facebook.
- Remember there's a future beyond just resisting Trump.
- Things are super-duper gerrymandered, and the Republican Party prefers it this way.
- If you live in Virginia, Ohio, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan, or Florida, the 2017 (Virginia) and 2018 (other states) gubernatorial races are extremely important for ending partisan gerrymandering and allowing Democratic control of Congress beyond 2020.
posted by compartment at 10:11 AM on June 29, 2017 [91 favorites]
> Quibbling about who counts as belonging in the "decent" pile vs the "indecent" pile seems pointless, but OMG the US would be better off with a stereotypical Christian Democratic party replacing the Republicans.
We already have a stereotypical Christian Democratic party. They're called the Democrats. Are you saying we should have two CDUs? cause I think maybe it'd make more sense to have a Christian Democrat party, a Social Democratic party, and a Communist party instead.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:15 AM on June 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
We already have a stereotypical Christian Democratic party. They're called the Democrats. Are you saying we should have two CDUs? cause I think maybe it'd make more sense to have a Christian Democrat party, a Social Democratic party, and a Communist party instead.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:15 AM on June 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
hey east bay people: you should call Feinstein and complain about how she's Feinstein every day. but uhh the folks in Barbara Lee's office are super super happy when you call them up to talk about how Barbara Lee's the best. and it's just generally a good deed to make the staffers in the best congressperson's office happy. so plz give Lee a call and thank her for moving the AUMF repeal forward.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:18 AM on June 29, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:18 AM on June 29, 2017 [25 favorites]
If an insurance company offers at least one plan in the state that is compliant with the (Obamacare) mandates, that company can also sell any additional plan that consumers desire.
Ah yes, when essential health care benefits aren't actually essential.
I swear to fucking God. How does Ted Cruz go grocery shopping without people, say, throwing pudding cups in his face?
posted by joyceanmachine at 10:20 AM on June 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
Ah yes, when essential health care benefits aren't actually essential.
I swear to fucking God. How does Ted Cruz go grocery shopping without people, say, throwing pudding cups in his face?
posted by joyceanmachine at 10:20 AM on June 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
OMG the US would be better off with a stereotypical Christian Democratic party replacing the Republicans.
This would also have the interesting effect of making the Democrats the right wing party in US politics.
posted by howfar at 10:22 AM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
This would also have the interesting effect of making the Democrats the right wing party in US politics.
posted by howfar at 10:22 AM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
If I felt they were serious about funding those de-facto high risk pools in perpetuity I'd find that plan more palatable, but it would only be better than their previous attempt and nothing I'd consider "good" or "effective". It seems like it's planned for obsolescence. Something that they can more gradually kill that won't get them kicked out of office right away. I also fear a lot of people would fall through the cracks of making too much to afford subsidies but not making enough to pay for the premiums they need to pay. And not to mention deductibles. So I hope this, too, fails.
posted by Green With You at 10:22 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Green With You at 10:22 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
I also related an anecdote about my elderly grandmother, who at some point will likely be in a nursing home. "I'm concerned because I think Medicaid pays for a lot of this late-life care," I said, and the staffer was sufficiently engaged with my call to confirm that yes, Medicare actually does pay for this really important thing.
That reminds me of something I heard yesterday on NPR -- they were talking to some creep from the Heritage Foundation whose argument was basically that Medicaid was "never intended" to cover end-of-life care for the middle class -- it's supposed to be a program for the poor!
The NPR interviewer, astonishingly, seemed to accept that the Heritage Foundation flack actually had a point, instead of saying, "so what?" So what if Medicaid wasn't originally intended to cover end-of-life care? It does now, so cutting it hurts people. And putting that vital service in there may well have been intentional in order to shield it from cut-happy bozos like him.
But it's interesting that that feeble argument seems to be the best even Heritage can come up with, even if NPR is too cowed or dim to point out what nonsense it is.
posted by Gelatin at 10:24 AM on June 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
That reminds me of something I heard yesterday on NPR -- they were talking to some creep from the Heritage Foundation whose argument was basically that Medicaid was "never intended" to cover end-of-life care for the middle class -- it's supposed to be a program for the poor!
The NPR interviewer, astonishingly, seemed to accept that the Heritage Foundation flack actually had a point, instead of saying, "so what?" So what if Medicaid wasn't originally intended to cover end-of-life care? It does now, so cutting it hurts people. And putting that vital service in there may well have been intentional in order to shield it from cut-happy bozos like him.
But it's interesting that that feeble argument seems to be the best even Heritage can come up with, even if NPR is too cowed or dim to point out what nonsense it is.
posted by Gelatin at 10:24 AM on June 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
> Melania Trump modeled in US prior to getting work visa. AP report citing an abundance of documentation.
LOCK HER UP!
(Did I do that right?)
No, she needs to be detained by ICE officials coming to her home, handcuffing and jailing her, then deporting her, without a record of her name.
posted by Mental Wimp at 10:32 AM on June 29, 2017 [22 favorites]
LOCK HER UP!
(Did I do that right?)
No, she needs to be detained by ICE officials coming to her home, handcuffing and jailing her, then deporting her, without a record of her name.
posted by Mental Wimp at 10:32 AM on June 29, 2017 [22 favorites]
The NPR interviewer, astonishingly, seemed to accept that the Heritage Foundation flack actually had a point
I think it's time for the era of the live interview to end. I listened to a NPR interview today, and the results were mixed. It appears that the strategy of right-wing interviewees is to craft every answer with three of four lies and/or crazy statements. The interviewer can only respond to one, leaving the others all unchallenged.
Tape everything, then present a news story where you replay quotes and point out the facts. Live interview are nothing more than a free soapbox.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 10:34 AM on June 29, 2017 [39 favorites]
I think it's time for the era of the live interview to end. I listened to a NPR interview today, and the results were mixed. It appears that the strategy of right-wing interviewees is to craft every answer with three of four lies and/or crazy statements. The interviewer can only respond to one, leaving the others all unchallenged.
Tape everything, then present a news story where you replay quotes and point out the facts. Live interview are nothing more than a free soapbox.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 10:34 AM on June 29, 2017 [39 favorites]
You Can't Tip a Buick - Done!
posted by greermahoney at 10:34 AM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by greermahoney at 10:34 AM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
I think it's time for the era of the live interview to end. I listened to a NPR interview today, and the results were mixed. It appears that the strategy of right-wing interviewees is to craft every answer with three of four lies and/or crazy statements. The interviewer can only respond to one, leaving the others all unchallenged.
Tape everything, then present a news story where you replay quotes and point out the facts. Live interview are nothing more than a free soapbox.
To be honest, I thought that most NPR interviews were carefully edited to seem live. Perhaps they still have a few that are actually live.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:37 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Tape everything, then present a news story where you replay quotes and point out the facts. Live interview are nothing more than a free soapbox.
To be honest, I thought that most NPR interviews were carefully edited to seem live. Perhaps they still have a few that are actually live.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:37 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
The NPR interviewer, astonishingly, seemed to accept that the Heritage Foundation flack actually had a point
o wow what a shock
posted by entropicamericana at 10:42 AM on June 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
o wow what a shock
posted by entropicamericana at 10:42 AM on June 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
Hey.... remember that NRA ad? Well, have I got a funny story for you.
Tim Mak, The Daily Beast; Top Trump Ally Met With Putin’s Deputy in Moscow
Tim Mak, The Daily Beast; Top Trump Ally Met With Putin’s Deputy in Moscow
In March 2014, the U.S. government sanctioned Dmitry Rogozin—a hardline deputy to Vladimir Putin, the head of Russia’s defense industry and longtime opponent of American power—in retaliation for the invasion of Crimea and eastern Ukraine.posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 10:43 AM on June 29, 2017 [29 favorites]
Eighteen months later, the National Rifle Association, Donald Trump’s most powerful outside ally during the 2016 election, sent a delegation to Moscow that met with him.
Here's Ellen Mitchell at The Hill covering the AUMF repeal: Lawmakers applaud after panel approves language revoking war authority
Laura Koran for CNN: AUMF draft gathers dust as Special Forces prepare to deploy to Iraq December 2, 2015
But now that we've got one, apparently even Republicans aren't happy with the idea of giving this president such unlimited authority.
That same committee has voted multiple times NOT to examine or make public Trump's tax returns. It says something that they are willing to consider putting a check on his power in this way.
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:43 AM on June 29, 2017 [41 favorites]
Lawmakers applauded when the amendment was added by voice vote to the defense spending bill, highlighting the frustration many members of Congress feel about the Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF), which was initially approved to authorize the response to the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.I also dug up this 2015 piece on Obama's attempts to repeal the 2001 AUMF and get a new one to replace it...
...
It would repeal “the overly broad 2001 Authorization of Use of Military Force, after a period of 8 months after the enactment of this act, giving the administration and Congress sufficient time to decide what measures should replace it,” according to Lee.
Laura Koran for CNN: AUMF draft gathers dust as Special Forces prepare to deploy to Iraq December 2, 2015
While Obama has previously called for the eventual repeal of both authorizations and for the passage of an ISIS-specific one, he maintains that the 2001 and 2002 AUMF provide the necessary legal cover for operations now taking place in Iraq and Syria.Obama wanted the 2001 AUMF repealed and a new one passed which would have limited his own military powers. Republicans wanted to give the executive branch (Obama, at the time) broader authority. Presumably both were anticipating the possibility of an eventual Republican presidency.
In February, six months after the air campaign began, the Obama administration sent a new draft AUMF to Congress, but the measure didn't get far.
Republicans, by and large, argued for broader authorization that would allow Obama to target ISIS with few limitations. Democrats meanwhile, called for stronger limitations to avoid the possibility of an open and protracted war.
Specifically, lawmakers fought over whether the measure should include a "sunset" provision, whether it should be limited in geographic scope, whether it should repeal either of the previous AUMFs, and whether it should permit the presence of ground troops (and if so, under what conditions).
The bill never reached the House or Senate floors for debate.
But now that we've got one, apparently even Republicans aren't happy with the idea of giving this president such unlimited authority.
That same committee has voted multiple times NOT to examine or make public Trump's tax returns. It says something that they are willing to consider putting a check on his power in this way.
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:43 AM on June 29, 2017 [41 favorites]
"They were actually here, but they wanted to be here with Trump," Trump said.
Is it my imagination or is he referring to himself in the third-person more often lately? Maybe I'm just noticing it more.
George likes his chicken spicy.
posted by Servo5678 at 10:54 AM on June 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
Is it my imagination or is he referring to himself in the third-person more often lately? Maybe I'm just noticing it more.
George likes his chicken spicy.
posted by Servo5678 at 10:54 AM on June 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
The NRA spent $30.3 million to elect Trump—more than even the top Trump super PAC, which spent just $20.3 million, according to OpenSecrets.
The NRA spent more than the top Trump super PAC by a lot. It's clearly a moot point, but your favorite NRA member is a total MAGA hat. I guess I didn't realize they were way bigger supporters than the avowed biggest supporters.
posted by petebest at 10:59 AM on June 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
The NRA spent more than the top Trump super PAC by a lot. It's clearly a moot point, but your favorite NRA member is a total MAGA hat. I guess I didn't realize they were way bigger supporters than the avowed biggest supporters.
posted by petebest at 10:59 AM on June 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
@JDiamond1: .@StephGrisham45: "As the First Lady has stated publicly in the past, when her husband gets attacked, he will punch back 10 times harder."
Apparently the First Lady's spokeswoman is clarifying this is something Melania said in past. It's who he is.
That this clarification needed to be issued is interesting, as is the decision to cast this as a description of Trump rather than a defense of him.
posted by zachlipton at 11:04 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Apparently the First Lady's spokeswoman is clarifying this is something Melania said in past. It's who he is.
That this clarification needed to be issued is interesting, as is the decision to cast this as a description of Trump rather than a defense of him.
posted by zachlipton at 11:04 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Josh Marshall: Reporters Need to Pull Out of Trump’s Dominance Rituals
We’ve collectively been living in Donald Trump’s house now for more than two years. We know him really well. We know that he sees everything through a prism of the dominating and the dominated. It’s a zero-sum economy of power and humiliation. For those in his orbit he demands and gets a slavish adoration. Even those who take on his yoke of indignity are fed a steady diet mid-grade humiliations to drive home their status and satisfy Trump’s need not only for dominance but unending public displays of dominance. He is a dark, damaged person.posted by tonycpsu at 11:08 AM on June 29, 2017 [65 favorites]
Trump’s treatment of the press is really a version of the same game, a set of actions meant to produce the public spectacle of ‘Trump acts; reporters beg.’ ‘Reporters beg and Trump says no.’ Demanding, shaming all amount to trying to force actions which reporters have no ability to compel. That signals weakness. And that’s the point.
Let me say this: I don’t think this is an easy situation to grapple with. But I don’t think the press can do its job if it allows itself to play this role in Trump’s public spectacle. The only way to grapple with this type of gangland White House is not to beg or demand but simply make clear that hiding, acting in secrecy is cowardly, a sign of hidden bad acts, simply unAmerican and let the Trump entourage live with that label. Begging and complaining make no sense when the point of behavior is to make you beg. It can’t work and it drives a cascading cycle of indignity that is both demoralizing and enervating.
Now you may say, well they couldn’t care less what label you give them! What you’re suggesting just means Trump wins either way. Demand access and you lose or accept no access and lose all the same. It might seem that way. But I don’t agree. As I said, we’ve been living in this guy’s house for some time. People who don’t cower, who don’t let Trump dictate the terms of their engagement with him tend to unhinge him. Not even ‘tend’. It’s a clear and consistent pattern. We’ve seen it with Khan, Machado, Macron. Trump thrives on people who play parts in his dominance rituals; he derives a malign psychic nourishment from it; he comes either unglued or ingratiating when people refuse to play that part.
Tape everything, then present a news story where you replay quotes and point out the facts. Live interview are nothing more than a free soapbox.
I wish I trusted NPR to do that right, but they already play tape of, say, Mitch McConnell putting "job-killing" before every time he says "regulations," and NPR dutifully giving him a megaphone for his lying propaganda and helping cement nonsense beliefs in their listeners' heads thru repetition of message.
posted by Gelatin at 11:09 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
I wish I trusted NPR to do that right, but they already play tape of, say, Mitch McConnell putting "job-killing" before every time he says "regulations," and NPR dutifully giving him a megaphone for his lying propaganda and helping cement nonsense beliefs in their listeners' heads thru repetition of message.
posted by Gelatin at 11:09 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Daily Beast continues its tradition of getting White House staffers to say horrible things: Trump Attacks ‘Crazy’ Mika Brzezinski: She Was ‘Bleeding Badly From a Face-Lift’
Behind closed doors the tone was different. Senior aides to the president have tried and failed for months to find new ways to distract the president from cable-news and social media and bring some level of control to his tweets. On Thursday they responded to the tweetstorm with a mix of resignation and gallows humor.posted by zachlipton at 11:09 AM on June 29, 2017 [22 favorites]
"This is who the president is," one official noted, adding the tweets were at least better than those about the travel ban or James Comey.
"At least you're writing [about] this and not that we're going to kill millions of people," another White House official said, referencing the awful coverage of Trumpcare.
"At least you're writing [about] this and not that we're going to kill millions of people," another White House official said
Thanks for reminding us, bro.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:13 AM on June 29, 2017 [37 favorites]
Thanks for reminding us, bro.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:13 AM on June 29, 2017 [37 favorites]
Live now: White House Press Briefing
Starting now: Congressional Democratic Women Lawmakers on President Trump's Tweets
Curious who the cable nets go with.
posted by zachlipton at 11:13 AM on June 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
Starting now: Congressional Democratic Women Lawmakers on President Trump's Tweets
Curious who the cable nets go with.
posted by zachlipton at 11:13 AM on June 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
stonepharisee: Anyone care to interpret this latest burst of incoherence from the Orange one?
Morning Joe covered the fake Time Magazine cover non-story. Seriously, that's it.
Trump's Graphic Insult Of Cable Host Crosses A Line For Many (NPR, June 29, 2017)
And I'm torn - is MSNBC referring to Trump's entire presidency, or just today?
"At least you're writing [about] this and not that we're going to kill millions of people," another White House official said, referencing the awful coverage of Trumpcare.
Oh shit, his rage tweets might be serving his party well. Plus, GOP folks can take a step back and say "whoa, that's too much, Donny. Telling some dude you have the right to grab women by the pussy? That's just locker room talk. But this is on Twitter, and everyone can read that." And they can get air time as being "more reasonable than the President," without having to talk about how the GOP is slowly improving their anti-health care CBO scores, a million people at a time (starting from 24 million uninsured), with tens to hundreds of thousands of people in the US to die because they want to cut taxes for the wealthy.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:15 AM on June 29, 2017 [15 favorites]
Morning Joe covered the fake Time Magazine cover non-story. Seriously, that's it.
Trump's Graphic Insult Of Cable Host Crosses A Line For Many (NPR, June 29, 2017)
President Trump unleashed one of the most vitriolic insults of his presidency Thursday morning, saying MSNBC Morning Joe host Mika Brzezinski was "bleeding badly from a face-lift" while at his Palm Beach resort for New Year's Eve. He also described her as "low I.Q. Crazy Mika."The article goes on to quote some response tweets from a range of Reps and Senators, none of whom defend the angry orange's first amendment rights to be a raging asshole online, which was nice to see (then again, maybe NPR picked the most professional of responses.)
...
Backlash to the comments has come from all angles, but first, here's video of what might have set him off from Thursday morning's show:.@morningmika: "Nothing makes a man feel better than making a fake cover of a mag about himself, lying every day and destroying the country" pic.twitter.com/r30Acu5y2P...
In response, MSNBC said, "It's a sad day for America when the president spends his time bullying, lying and spewing petty personal attacks instead of doing his job."
And I'm torn - is MSNBC referring to Trump's entire presidency, or just today?
"At least you're writing [about] this and not that we're going to kill millions of people," another White House official said, referencing the awful coverage of Trumpcare.
Oh shit, his rage tweets might be serving his party well. Plus, GOP folks can take a step back and say "whoa, that's too much, Donny. Telling some dude you have the right to grab women by the pussy? That's just locker room talk. But this is on Twitter, and everyone can read that." And they can get air time as being "more reasonable than the President," without having to talk about how the GOP is slowly improving their anti-health care CBO scores, a million people at a time (starting from 24 million uninsured), with tens to hundreds of thousands of people in the US to die because they want to cut taxes for the wealthy.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:15 AM on June 29, 2017 [15 favorites]
Albert Burneko, Deadspin: Republicans Fear Trump's Cruel Tweet Will Harm Their Cruel Health Bill
Donald Trump tweeted something very unkind about one of the hosts of a stupid-ass worthless morning cable news politics show. Oh no. The Republicans, they are very disappointed.posted by tonycpsu at 11:16 AM on June 29, 2017 [80 favorites]
Here are some very disappointed Republican Senators.@LindseyGrahamSC: Mr. President, your tweet was beneath the office and represents what is wrong with American politics, not the greatness of America.[...]
@SenatorCollins: This has to stop – we all have a job – 3 branches of gov’t and media. We don’t have to get along, but we must show respect and civility.
@BenSasse: Please just stop. This isn't normal and it's beneath the dignity of your office.
Here is a reminder: All of these people are members of a political party presently working out how to strip reasonable access to healthcare from tens of millions of vulnerable people—the poor, the sick, the elderly—so that they can kick back some tax money to the richest sliver of America’s upper class without imperiling the job prospects of those of them who won elections by branding themselves as “moderates.” Imagine thinking literally anything else “represents what is wrong with American politics.” Imagine fretting over what does or does not empower women while your own party conspires to strip prenatal care from mothers. Imagine wringing your hands over civility while plotting to bankrupt and ruin the families of sick children so that a few billionaires can bleed just a little more cash out of the society they’re destroying.
Rep. Brenda Lawrence is spitting fire. She talked about how the President is saying things she taught her son never to say and that she wants to be fighting for health care and jobs, not this. "This is direct to you. Eyeball to eyeball. Do the job of the president of all the people of this great country and stop, stop the disrespect."
Rep. Jackie Speier: "I implore those close to the President to step in. Do it because you love him. Do it because you love this country."
posted by zachlipton at 11:19 AM on June 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
Rep. Jackie Speier: "I implore those close to the President to step in. Do it because you love him. Do it because you love this country."
posted by zachlipton at 11:19 AM on June 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
zachlipton: Rep. Jackie Speier: "I implore those close to the President to step in. Do it because you love him. Do it because you love this country."
Rep. Jackie Speier, I implore you: work with your colleagues and IMPEACH THE PRESIDENT. He is unfit to serve.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:21 AM on June 29, 2017 [56 favorites]
Rep. Jackie Speier, I implore you: work with your colleagues and IMPEACH THE PRESIDENT. He is unfit to serve.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:21 AM on June 29, 2017 [56 favorites]
Trump thrives on people who play parts in his dominance rituals; he derives a malign psychic nourishment from it; he comes either unglued or ingratiating when people refuse to play that part.
He is just like my mother. The only winning move is not to play, except that with the president I can't move across multiple states with no forwarding address, block his number and call it good.
posted by winna at 11:23 AM on June 29, 2017 [53 favorites]
He is just like my mother. The only winning move is not to play, except that with the president I can't move across multiple states with no forwarding address, block his number and call it good.
posted by winna at 11:23 AM on June 29, 2017 [53 favorites]
Chrysostom: U of Texas poll finds Trump favorability underwater in *Texas*.
Amid Russia Investigation, Many Texas Republicans Lose Faith In The FBI (NPR, June 29, 2017)
posted by filthy light thief at 11:23 AM on June 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
Amid Russia Investigation, Many Texas Republicans Lose Faith In The FBI (NPR, June 29, 2017)
The poll of 1,200 registered Texan voters by the University of Texas and Texas Tribune found 35 percent of Republicans have an unfavorable view of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Only 43 percent had a favorable view while 22 percent said they did not have an opinion, what one analyst called "a kind of reservation of judgment."Particularly for the FBI, when Trump and his campaign are under investigation, because this distrust could delegitimize any results, further fracturing the country.
Those numbers surprised GOP officials and those who conducted the poll. Conservatives, and particularly southern conservatives, traditionally are key supporters and fans of law enforcement.
"I think all of this reflects the fact that almost everything connected with Donald Trump being in the White House right now is falling into an intensely partisan field" said Jim Henson, director of the Texas Politics Project at the University of Texas, which designed and analyzed the poll.
"On a deeper level, it means one more institution that is the subject of a real crisis in faith in the general public," Henson said. "And I think it is worrisome."
posted by filthy light thief at 11:23 AM on June 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
@SenatorCollins: This has to stop – we all have a job – 3 branches of gov’t and media. We don’t have to get along, but we must show respect and civility.
This isn't about respect and civility. This is about the President of the United States lashing out at what his supports claim was an attack from a show he claims he doesn't watch. This is the Twitter version of a kid in the cafeteria getting hit from behind with a straw wrapper and taking a swing at whoever was behind him. Except the kid in the cafeteria has a bunch of people around him whose goddamn job is to tell him who actually blew that wrapper at him, and he ignores them, oh and by the way, he's a fucking nuclear power.
He is not. Fit. To. Serve. I'm beyond being pissed at the House for not impeaching him or the Senate for enabling him. I'm pissed at the Cabinet at this point for not doing their goddamn Constitutional duty under the 25th Amendment.
posted by Etrigan at 11:25 AM on June 29, 2017 [61 favorites]
This isn't about respect and civility. This is about the President of the United States lashing out at what his supports claim was an attack from a show he claims he doesn't watch. This is the Twitter version of a kid in the cafeteria getting hit from behind with a straw wrapper and taking a swing at whoever was behind him. Except the kid in the cafeteria has a bunch of people around him whose goddamn job is to tell him who actually blew that wrapper at him, and he ignores them, oh and by the way, he's a fucking nuclear power.
He is not. Fit. To. Serve. I'm beyond being pissed at the House for not impeaching him or the Senate for enabling him. I'm pissed at the Cabinet at this point for not doing their goddamn Constitutional duty under the 25th Amendment.
posted by Etrigan at 11:25 AM on June 29, 2017 [61 favorites]
WaPo: Travel ban to take effect as State Department defines ‘close family’
So are we going back to the airport to protest (realizing that this impacts people applying for visas, so it shouldn't, in theory, be relevant to anyone arriving at the airport) or is it just a big shrug now?
posted by zachlipton at 11:25 AM on June 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
So are we going back to the airport to protest (realizing that this impacts people applying for visas, so it shouldn't, in theory, be relevant to anyone arriving at the airport) or is it just a big shrug now?
posted by zachlipton at 11:25 AM on June 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
He is not. Fit. To. Serve.
And it's worth noting that while past presidential contests have been about policy disagreements between candidates who at least tacitly accepted each other's legitimacy, this critique of Trump was explicitly put forward by the Democrats.
And the Republican response was, "We don't care!"
posted by Gelatin at 11:27 AM on June 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
And it's worth noting that while past presidential contests have been about policy disagreements between candidates who at least tacitly accepted each other's legitimacy, this critique of Trump was explicitly put forward by the Democrats.
And the Republican response was, "We don't care!"
posted by Gelatin at 11:27 AM on June 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
hey so a few minutes ago I posted (more or less) this to my facebook:
I've basically spent my life in a long string of smartiepants-people-spaces, and I am confident saying that my facebook friends are pretty much among the most talented people in the U.S. And they're trying to kill us, and/or chase us off.
Feel free to try this experiment on your own facebook. And uh if you're reading this and you're not already participating in protest actions and calling your senators / representatives, you will be after you read what your friends say.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:29 AM on June 29, 2017 [25 favorites]
hey everyone: I'm looking for more specific stories to tell when I'm calling up Senators to demand they block the Republican death bill -- I've heard they respond better to personal stories than they do to other sorts of calls. they're like "pfft you're just calling cause Indivisible told you to" if you don't have a story.it's ten minutes later and I've already got like six quality stories from friends (a couple of whom I didn't know had never had insurance before the ACA; also found out that a friend who skipped the country a few months ago left specifically because of the risk of losing his insurance after an ACA repeal).
I know a ton of y'all do types of work (freelance writing, adjuncting, etc.) that often doesn't come with employer-provided insurance. do you have anything you're comfortable sharing, so I can be like "my friend [x] had to do [foo] cause they didn't have insurance / will pay [gigantic number] for insurance every month if the ACA is repealed."?
I've basically spent my life in a long string of smartiepants-people-spaces, and I am confident saying that my facebook friends are pretty much among the most talented people in the U.S. And they're trying to kill us, and/or chase us off.
Feel free to try this experiment on your own facebook. And uh if you're reading this and you're not already participating in protest actions and calling your senators / representatives, you will be after you read what your friends say.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:29 AM on June 29, 2017 [25 favorites]
So are we going back to the airport to protest (realizing that this impacts people applying for visas, so it shouldn't, in theory, be relevant to anyone arriving at the airport) or is it just a big shrug now?
I was at the initial airport protests. I've been going to other protests at least once a week since December. I've been making daily phone calls and educating/encouraging friends. And I'm so fucking overwhelmed. I want to protest the travel ban. I want to make it stop. And I also want to stop all the other things happening.
It's not a shrug for me. But it's also -- I just don't know. How do you do this?
posted by mcduff at 11:34 AM on June 29, 2017 [14 favorites]
I was at the initial airport protests. I've been going to other protests at least once a week since December. I've been making daily phone calls and educating/encouraging friends. And I'm so fucking overwhelmed. I want to protest the travel ban. I want to make it stop. And I also want to stop all the other things happening.
It's not a shrug for me. But it's also -- I just don't know. How do you do this?
posted by mcduff at 11:34 AM on June 29, 2017 [14 favorites]
> How do you do this?
by spending all the down time at protests reading internet on my phone.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:36 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
by spending all the down time at protests reading internet on my phone.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:36 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
plus you can do resistbot on your phone while actually at a protest. multitasking! efficient!
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:38 AM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:38 AM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
I wish Democrats would frame the health care debate this way: the Republican bill only makes sense if you think the big problem with health care right now is poor people getting too much medical care.
posted by msalt at 11:40 AM on June 29, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by msalt at 11:40 AM on June 29, 2017 [25 favorites]
Er.. Wait. what? On May 10th, Henry Kissenger shows up in the Oval Office and then today...
Vladimir Putin received American political scientist and former US secretary of state Henry Kissinger at the Kremlin.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 11:40 AM on June 29, 2017 [26 favorites]
Vladimir Putin received American political scientist and former US secretary of state Henry Kissinger at the Kremlin.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 11:40 AM on June 29, 2017 [26 favorites]
I wish Democrats would frame the health care debate this way: the Republican bill only makes sense if you think the big problem with health care right now is poor people getting too much medical care.
Best of all, Republicans time and again basically admit as much, with their silly free-market talk of being "better consumers" -- that is, consuming less health care. Which is a foolish and ultimately costly stance, as foregoing preventative treatment because it isn't affordable leads to much more expensive crisis treatment later on.
That, or funerals.
posted by Gelatin at 11:43 AM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Best of all, Republicans time and again basically admit as much, with their silly free-market talk of being "better consumers" -- that is, consuming less health care. Which is a foolish and ultimately costly stance, as foregoing preventative treatment because it isn't affordable leads to much more expensive crisis treatment later on.
That, or funerals.
posted by Gelatin at 11:43 AM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
hey everyone: I'm looking for more specific stories to tell when I'm calling up Senators to demand they block the Republican death bill -- I've heard they respond better to personal stories than they do to other sorts of calls. they're like "pfft you're just calling cause Indivisible told you to" if you don't have a story.
If you want one more - I went to a good state college and got a temp-to-perm job a few months afterward, which then turned into my professional career of five years and counting. I fit the narrow Republican politician definition of a "productive member of society." And in the less-than-a-year after college and before I found my permanent job, when I was working a temp job with no benefits, I was able to be covered under my parents' insurance due to the ACA.
During that time, I had a suspected seizure (turned out to be a pseudoseizure) and collapsed and started shaking and vocalizing. While I was unconscious, someone called EMTs. Shortly after I woke up, they took me to the hospital in an ambulance and gave me an MRI.
I have no idea what it would have cost if I hadn't been insured. But I'm certain I would still be paying that bill if it wasn't for the ACA.
(Instead I only have to pay hundreds of dollars in student loan payments a month, but that's another story)
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:43 AM on June 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
If you want one more - I went to a good state college and got a temp-to-perm job a few months afterward, which then turned into my professional career of five years and counting. I fit the narrow Republican politician definition of a "productive member of society." And in the less-than-a-year after college and before I found my permanent job, when I was working a temp job with no benefits, I was able to be covered under my parents' insurance due to the ACA.
During that time, I had a suspected seizure (turned out to be a pseudoseizure) and collapsed and started shaking and vocalizing. While I was unconscious, someone called EMTs. Shortly after I woke up, they took me to the hospital in an ambulance and gave me an MRI.
I have no idea what it would have cost if I hadn't been insured. But I'm certain I would still be paying that bill if it wasn't for the ACA.
(Instead I only have to pay hundreds of dollars in student loan payments a month, but that's another story)
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:43 AM on June 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
given that (allegedly) Kissinger's favorite board game is Diplomacy, I'd guess what he was discussing involved something like "A STP-LVN"
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:44 AM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:44 AM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
There are lawyers at JFK right now, for whatever might happen with respect to the travel ban. No big airport protests yet -- they aren't sure when exactly it will go into effect today or what that is going to look like. So, those of us who can do so should be prepared to go to the airports this weekend if needed. You can follow @maketheroadny or the NY Immigrant Coalition for updates.
There will be a rally today at the north end of Union Square (moved from Wash Sq) at 5:30pm protesting the ban - a bunch of groups will be there (NYCLU, Teamsters, etc).
posted by melissasaurus at 11:46 AM on June 29, 2017 [19 favorites]
There will be a rally today at the north end of Union Square (moved from Wash Sq) at 5:30pm protesting the ban - a bunch of groups will be there (NYCLU, Teamsters, etc).
posted by melissasaurus at 11:46 AM on June 29, 2017 [19 favorites]
And the Republican response was "we don't care!"
Of course not. This is the legacy of the modern Republican Party; their base rejects reasonable candidates by reflex.
A doddering actor with a long history of hatred for the left and for the government he was running to lead? Two big wins. A dry-drunk legacy case spouting jingoism? Two* wins. (Sort of.) A belligerent blowhard spouting racist and sexist blather? Even he came out ahead. More rational figures like McCain, Dole, Romney? All lost. George the Elder skated in on Ronnie's coattails and faded when he showed some signs of humanity.
Know how we say that actual Republicans usually beat Dems pretending to be conservative? The reverse also holds. An incompetent, hostile boob is just fine for Birchers because he won't even come around to potential compromises for the good of the nation by accident.
posted by delfin at 11:48 AM on June 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
Of course not. This is the legacy of the modern Republican Party; their base rejects reasonable candidates by reflex.
A doddering actor with a long history of hatred for the left and for the government he was running to lead? Two big wins. A dry-drunk legacy case spouting jingoism? Two* wins. (Sort of.) A belligerent blowhard spouting racist and sexist blather? Even he came out ahead. More rational figures like McCain, Dole, Romney? All lost. George the Elder skated in on Ronnie's coattails and faded when he showed some signs of humanity.
Know how we say that actual Republicans usually beat Dems pretending to be conservative? The reverse also holds. An incompetent, hostile boob is just fine for Birchers because he won't even come around to potential compromises for the good of the nation by accident.
posted by delfin at 11:48 AM on June 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
...some creep from the Heritage Foundation whose argument was basically that Medicaid was "never intended" to cover end-of-life care for the middle class -- it's supposed to be a program for the poor!
The elderly have to impoverish themselves to be eligible for this benefit. It's like an inheritance tax before you die—a pre-death tax, if you will.
posted by Mental Wimp at 11:49 AM on June 29, 2017 [22 favorites]
The elderly have to impoverish themselves to be eligible for this benefit. It's like an inheritance tax before you die—a pre-death tax, if you will.
posted by Mental Wimp at 11:49 AM on June 29, 2017 [22 favorites]
The elderly have to impoverish themselves to be eligible for this benefit. It's like an inheritance tax before you die—a pre-death tax, if you will.
This is so true. It doesn't take many years in a nursing home to completely deplete the savings of someone from the middle class.
posted by diogenes at 11:54 AM on June 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
This is so true. It doesn't take many years in a nursing home to completely deplete the savings of someone from the middle class.
posted by diogenes at 11:54 AM on June 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
A dry-drunk legacy case spouting jingoism?
The idea of a "dry drunk" is utterly groundless AA bullshit, you know that right?
posted by thelonius at 11:56 AM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
The idea of a "dry drunk" is utterly groundless AA bullshit, you know that right?
posted by thelonius at 11:56 AM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Memo to Heritage hack: "end of life care" is increasingly happening long before Medicare eligibility age for poor people, because of depression, addiction, working themselves sick in bad working conditions, poor nutrition because they're working all of the time (and because food assistance programs are also under attack)... The list goes on. Many MeFi threads have chronicled these problems in poor communities.
Also, it's a real stretch to call the people eligible for Medicaid expansion "middle class." The federal poverty line is not an income people can live on except by the most technical definition of "live", and the subsidies trail off rapidly the further you get away from that line. I'd like to see a Heritage member live on that wage for a year and tell us all about the amazing healthcare options they were able to afford on the individual market.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:59 AM on June 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
Also, it's a real stretch to call the people eligible for Medicaid expansion "middle class." The federal poverty line is not an income people can live on except by the most technical definition of "live", and the subsidies trail off rapidly the further you get away from that line. I'd like to see a Heritage member live on that wage for a year and tell us all about the amazing healthcare options they were able to afford on the individual market.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:59 AM on June 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
At least something finally caused reporters to come millimeters from telling Huckabee Sanders to fuck right off. Kristen Welker got in a lovely shot in response to the "No other president has been abused like Donnie" nonsense by asking point-blank about the birther shit and Obama's utterly gracious tolerance of it. The entire panel of MSNBC is sitting around calling HS a liar; Katy Tur is enumerating the many times she personally heard him advocate violence against protestors.
Nice also to see a royally pissed-off tweet come from Lisa Murkowski, someone Mitch McConnell would prefer not to alienate at present.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:59 AM on June 29, 2017 [45 favorites]
Nice also to see a royally pissed-off tweet come from Lisa Murkowski, someone Mitch McConnell would prefer not to alienate at present.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:59 AM on June 29, 2017 [45 favorites]
Paul Krugman is wondering aloud if Trump is having a breakdown and comparing him to Nixon in his final days.
posted by diogenes at 11:59 AM on June 29, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 11:59 AM on June 29, 2017 [15 favorites]
I'd take an actual drunk over either of America's non-drinking presidents.
posted by Artw at 12:00 PM on June 29, 2017 [40 favorites]
posted by Artw at 12:00 PM on June 29, 2017 [40 favorites]
But I don’t think the press can do its job if it allows itself to play this role in Trump’s public spectacle.
I'm a little foggy on the last time the press did its job in a kind of organized coherent way, except for goosing Trump's campaign and the run up to Iraq(s).
posted by petebest at 12:01 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm a little foggy on the last time the press did its job in a kind of organized coherent way, except for goosing Trump's campaign and the run up to Iraq(s).
posted by petebest at 12:01 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think you all should lobby Twitter to shut off trump's account as a symbolic protest. It would drive him nuts.
posted by dhruva at 12:01 PM on June 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by dhruva at 12:01 PM on June 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
Press briefing wrapped up. Recap: "Here's a list of crimes committed by undocumented immigrants, read with ghoulish relish. The president is just pushing back against the mean bullies, why are you focusing on it but also his tweets speak for themselves and I refuse to say you shouldn't pay attention to them. Shut up about Russia you jerks, stop it stop it stop it. Nobody in Louisiana will lose Medicaid coverage [that's a quote!]. Whoops look at the time gotta go bye bye."
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:02 PM on June 29, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:02 PM on June 29, 2017 [19 favorites]
It doesn't take many years in a nursing home to completely deplete the savings of someone from the middle class.
Years? A private room in a nursing home cost an average of $248 daily, or more than $90,500 annually, according to a 2012 survey by MetLife. A semi-private room ran $222 daily, or more than $81,000 per year.
The median net worth of a married couple 65+ is ~ $140,000 (including home equity).
posted by melissasaurus at 12:03 PM on June 29, 2017 [27 favorites]
Years? A private room in a nursing home cost an average of $248 daily, or more than $90,500 annually, according to a 2012 survey by MetLife. A semi-private room ran $222 daily, or more than $81,000 per year.
The median net worth of a married couple 65+ is ~ $140,000 (including home equity).
posted by melissasaurus at 12:03 PM on June 29, 2017 [27 favorites]
Press briefing wrapped up
Yep, that was my take too. After the giggling from reporters at Mnuchin's non-answers.
posted by rc3spencer at 12:08 PM on June 29, 2017
Yep, that was my take too. After the giggling from reporters at Mnuchin's non-answers.
posted by rc3spencer at 12:08 PM on June 29, 2017
filthy light thief: Elsewhere in the world: Venezuelan On Daily Life Amid Protests: 'We Need To Be Here To Fight' (NPR, June 22, 2017)
witchen: So at least Trump isn't kicking us while we're down. At least we're starting with a decent economy and with healthcare that can be taken away, rather than a shit economic and healthcare situation that's about to get way worse. I imagine that would look something like Venezuela once they're through with us. But I'm hopeful that we won't go that far down.
NPR has ... unusual ... news from Venezuela: Venezuela's Supreme Court Attacked By Rogue Police Helicopter (June 28, 2017)
witchen: So at least Trump isn't kicking us while we're down. At least we're starting with a decent economy and with healthcare that can be taken away, rather than a shit economic and healthcare situation that's about to get way worse. I imagine that would look something like Venezuela once they're through with us. But I'm hopeful that we won't go that far down.
NPR has ... unusual ... news from Venezuela: Venezuela's Supreme Court Attacked By Rogue Police Helicopter (June 28, 2017)
Last night in Caracas, a police helicopter circled over the Venezuelan Supreme Court building. Someone in the helicopter apparently threw grenades down at the court. This comes as protests against Nicolas Maduro's government have steadily grown. The circumstances surrounding this attack are murky, and Reuters correspondent Brian Ellsworth joins us via Skype from Caracas to help sort it out.posted by filthy light thief at 12:16 PM on June 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
...
ELLSWORTH: This was a police officer named Oscar Perez. He appeared in a video that he himself filmed before saying he wanted to remove the government of Nicolas Maduro and that he wanted to achieve freedom for the country. There are then a number of social media videos that circulate showing a helicopter flying into downtown Caracas at about sunset. And people there described hearing a number of detonations or explosions. And afterwards, we had an announcement from the government that this was an attempt to overthrow the government by someone affiliated with the opposition.
SHAPIRO: So that's one narrative - that this was an attempt to overthrow the government. But there's another narrative that has come out that says this was some kind of a false flag operation. Explain that claim.
ELLSWORTH: Yes. The opposition has immediately jumped on this claim as being suspect for a number of reasons. They note that this operation in which there were 15 shots fired from a helicopter, four grenades launched and three of them apparently exploded - people say that it's pretty unlikely that that would happen without anyone being wounded - no reports of injuries or deaths. It doesn't suggest a particularly serious operation.
The background of the police officer in particular has also brought a lot of attention because he is a movie actor who starred in a Venezuelan film about the Investigative Police, something equivalent or similar to the U.S. FBI, in which he plays an officer who rescues a businessman from a kidnapping.
I wish Democrats would frame the health care debate this way: the Republican bill only makes sense if you think the big problem with health care right now is poor people getting too much medical care.
I worry how much this is a successful argument for Rs. Never forget that Telling white people the criminal justice system is racist makes them like it more.
posted by phearlez at 12:19 PM on June 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
I worry how much this is a successful argument for Rs. Never forget that Telling white people the criminal justice system is racist makes them like it more.
The second experiment involved asking white New Yorkers about the stop-and-frisk program — after telling some of them that the New York state prison population was 40 percent black, and the rest that New York City's prison population was 60 percent black. Both groups agreed that stop-and-frisk was punitive. But again, the group that heard the 60-percent statistic was substantially less likely to want to sign a petition to end stop-and-frisk.Does anyone doubt that, at this point in the Trump Republican party discourse, they lack people willing to go out on tv and say that the population receiving this benefit is majority black (whether that is true or not cuz they will happily lie) and bank on that helping tamp down resistance? Because the only thing that leads me to think they won't do it is that they're not that competent in their evil.
posted by phearlez at 12:19 PM on June 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
I Am Shocked, Shocked, that Unhinged Blowhards Are Acting Just the Way They Always Do
No, CNN, these tweets weren't shocking "even by President Trump's standards." They were shocking by the standards we'd like him to be upholding. They were shocking by the standards some of us want to imagine he's upholding because we want him to just be a normal (if somewhat uninformed) president so we can go about our lives and tell ourselves that everything is fine.posted by tonycpsu at 12:25 PM on June 29, 2017 [50 favorites]
Everyone who thinks that way, please just stop. This is who Trump is. We've known this for a long time, and we elected him anyway. [...]
Many of us are also shocked by this new NRA ad featuring Dana Loesch: [...]
Why is this shocking? Why is it any more shocking than the famous mid-1990s letter from the NRA's Wayne LaPierre that referred to agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms as "jack-booted government thugs"? Why is it any more shocking than LaPierre's statement in 2012 after the Sandy Hook massacre? [...]
If you didn't realize until now that NRA rhetoric is always like this, you haven't been paying attention. Maybe the only reason you're paying attention at this moment is that now it's aimed not just at people in government or Hollywood, but at suburbanite Resistance members in pink hats.
This is nothing new. Our culture has been experiencing this sort of degradation for years. I guess it's a good thing when people are actually paying attention.
A bunch of news orgs have laid people off recently (MTV News let go a ton of folks yesterday to 'pivot to video'). Apparently, the NY Times is planning to layoff a bunch of copy editors. NewsGuild (which reps a lot of NYT staff) has planned a walkout that started today at ~3pm:
@StuartEmmrichNY Copy editors at New York Times gather in newsroom to begin walkout/protest over planned job cuts [tweet;pic]
posted by melissasaurus at 12:26 PM on June 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
@StuartEmmrichNY Copy editors at New York Times gather in newsroom to begin walkout/protest over planned job cuts [tweet;pic]
posted by melissasaurus at 12:26 PM on June 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
I worry how much this is a successful argument for Rs. Never forget that Telling white people the criminal justice system is racist makes them like it more.
Yeah, I think depressingly few Rs will be swayed by appeals to empathy for other groups at this point. It'd likely work much better to convince them that they themselves could suffer and die from R policies. Even sociopaths normally care about their own pleasure/pain and self-preservation.
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:26 PM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yeah, I think depressingly few Rs will be swayed by appeals to empathy for other groups at this point. It'd likely work much better to convince them that they themselves could suffer and die from R policies. Even sociopaths normally care about their own pleasure/pain and self-preservation.
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:26 PM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
I wonder how many copy editor salaries it takes to add up to a single Bret Stephens, David Brooks, or Maureen Dowd.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:27 PM on June 29, 2017 [42 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 12:27 PM on June 29, 2017 [42 favorites]
The Kris Kobach election/voter suppression commission is sending a letter to every state asking for the publicly available voter rolls.
This is public data, and the parties already have it, but it certainly points to them doing some sort of big merge on all the data and declaring that people registered in multiple states is a massive problem that must be stopped because there are a lot of people with the same name.
posted by zachlipton at 12:28 PM on June 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
This is public data, and the parties already have it, but it certainly points to them doing some sort of big merge on all the data and declaring that people registered in multiple states is a massive problem that must be stopped because there are a lot of people with the same name.
posted by zachlipton at 12:28 PM on June 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
Yeah, I think depressingly few Rs will be swayed by appeals to empathy for other groups at this point. It'd likely work much better to convince them that they themselves could suffer and die from R policies. Even sociopaths normally care about their own pleasure/pain and self-preservation.
I'd venture to say that 99.9% of humanity cares about themselves and their immediate family and friends more than they care about any other given group of people.
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:29 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'd venture to say that 99.9% of humanity cares about themselves and their immediate family and friends more than they care about any other given group of people.
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:29 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Some copy editors are holding signs that say "this sign wsa not edited."
posted by zachlipton at 12:30 PM on June 29, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:30 PM on June 29, 2017 [27 favorites]
The NYT writers should hook up with Dan Rather and create their own news thing. Lord knows they'll have tons to write about.
posted by Autumnheart at 12:32 PM on June 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Autumnheart at 12:32 PM on June 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
Many of us are also shocked by this new NRA ad featuring Dana Loesch: [...]
Why is this shocking?
This is normailization. I really wish the writers of thinkpieces like this would get over themselves - yes, you're very smart to have noticed the bad men first. THIS IS NOT NORMAL, stop trying to pretend it is to earn smug points.
The NRA call to arms is shocking because it is lightyears more vile and inflammatory than any other mainstream right wing organization statement, and it is aimed directly at those already armed for insurrection.
posted by Slap*Happy at 12:33 PM on June 29, 2017 [50 favorites]
Why is this shocking?
This is normailization. I really wish the writers of thinkpieces like this would get over themselves - yes, you're very smart to have noticed the bad men first. THIS IS NOT NORMAL, stop trying to pretend it is to earn smug points.
The NRA call to arms is shocking because it is lightyears more vile and inflammatory than any other mainstream right wing organization statement, and it is aimed directly at those already armed for insurrection.
posted by Slap*Happy at 12:33 PM on June 29, 2017 [50 favorites]
Just got back from dropping off my letter in person at Senator Toomey's office at 2nd Street in Philly. I really, really, really encourage people who can do hand-deliver to do that, because, like.
posted by joyceanmachine at 12:34 PM on June 29, 2017 [97 favorites]
(For people who call Toomey regularly, in case you're wondering, I got Phil from Philadelphia. I know at least one Mefite who will just hang up if they get him on the phone, so it was super-satisfying to be weasel a name out of him because usually they are SO RELUCTANT to give their name, and then subsequently say, "Phil," and make him at least, like, not check his phone while I gave an emotional speech about my husband having cancer.)The building is full 1930's public works grandiosity, complete with FDR plaque and WPA style frieze around the door.
They didn't let me up to the office, resulting in an actual staffer having to be dispatched downstairs to take my letter.
Meaning that valuable staffer time was spent getting up out of a chair, walking to the door, getting onto the elevator, and then awkwardly walking across the foyer to me wondering if I was going to bite him.
And further meaning that I got to look a Republican staffer IN THE ACTUAL EYE and tell him that his boss's policies were cruel and inhumane and would have left my husband dead if we didn't have insurance and the BCRA had been in place two years ago.
Afterwards, I went around the corner to Shane's Confectionary and bought myself a half-pound of wine gums and sour fruit candy! If your taste is more ice cream, Franklin Fountain is pretty much next door.
posted by joyceanmachine at 12:34 PM on June 29, 2017 [97 favorites]
Trump giving a speech on energy. Takes the time to single out CNN for mockery.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 12:38 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Barack Spinoza at 12:38 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Got a Dem Senator? I've been calling my California Senators asking them to withhold consent (with varying success; at some point last week a staffer astonished me by saying Sen. Feinstein had committed to withholding consent, but as of this week that appears to no longer be true), but I've switched (for now) to asking them to filibuster by amendment.
I've made the calls with that short ask, but later I'll be faxing them asking them to submit a minimum of 50 amendments - first, an amendment that helps Californians, but then another similar one that helps, say, citizens of North Carolina, which will be BADLY hurt if Obamacare is repealed; then work through the states, one by one, with 50 amendments that end up helping each state ... thus showing that they're working for Californians, but also working to protect all Americans everywhere.
So if you've got a Democratic Senator, please consider calling and asking for a minimum of 50 amendments. More, of course, would be even better.
posted by kristi at 12:39 PM on June 29, 2017 [30 favorites]
I've made the calls with that short ask, but later I'll be faxing them asking them to submit a minimum of 50 amendments - first, an amendment that helps Californians, but then another similar one that helps, say, citizens of North Carolina, which will be BADLY hurt if Obamacare is repealed; then work through the states, one by one, with 50 amendments that end up helping each state ... thus showing that they're working for Californians, but also working to protect all Americans everywhere.
So if you've got a Democratic Senator, please consider calling and asking for a minimum of 50 amendments. More, of course, would be even better.
posted by kristi at 12:39 PM on June 29, 2017 [30 favorites]
> because it is lightyears more vile and inflammatory than any other mainstream right wing organization statement
...except for other similar statements from the NRA, linked and quoted in the piece. Taking the differences between the mediums out of the equation (the violent imagery and dramatic background music) I see very little daylight -- and certainly not "light years" -- between what Loesch says and what the NRA has been saying for many years. Saying it's more vile that than what other mainstream right-wing organizations are saying is not responsive to the point about it being just as vile as what they've been saying for many years.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:41 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
...except for other similar statements from the NRA, linked and quoted in the piece. Taking the differences between the mediums out of the equation (the violent imagery and dramatic background music) I see very little daylight -- and certainly not "light years" -- between what Loesch says and what the NRA has been saying for many years. Saying it's more vile that than what other mainstream right-wing organizations are saying is not responsive to the point about it being just as vile as what they've been saying for many years.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:41 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
zachlipton: This is public data, and the parties already have it, but it certainly points to them doing some sort of big merge on all the data and declaring that people registered in multiple states is a massive problem that must be stopped because there are a lot of people with the same name.
Who Is Registered to Vote in Two States? Some in Trump’s Inner Circle (By Erin McCann for NY Times, January 27, 2017)
Who Is Registered to Vote in Two States? Some in Trump’s Inner Circle (By Erin McCann for NY Times, January 27, 2017)
Donald J. Trump spent his first week in office repeating the lie that between three million and five million people had voted illegally in the November election, first to members of Congress, then on Twitter, then in an ABC News interview, then again on Twitter on Friday, citing an unsubstantiated claim popular in conspiracy circles.posted by filthy light thief at 12:44 PM on June 29, 2017 [19 favorites]
On Wednesday, Mr. Trump had announced in a pair of tweets that he would be asking for a “major investigation” into voter fraud, “including those registered to vote in two states.”I will be asking for a major investigation into VOTER FRAUD, including those registered to vote in two states, those who are illegal and....Since then, a variety of news organizations have found that several members of Mr. Trump’s inner circle were registered in more than one state during the election. Several still are. There is no evidence that any of them voted twice.
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) Jan. 25, 2017
Registered in two states
• Steve Bannon, Mr. Trump’s strategist, was registered to vote in Florida and New York, the Sarasota Herald-Tribune found.
• Tiffany Trump, Mr. Trump’s youngest daughter, was registered in Pennsylvania and New York, NBC News reported.
• Sean Spicer, his press secretary, was registered in both Virginia and Rhode Island, according to The Washington Post.
• Jared Kushner, his son-in-law and close adviser, was registered in New York and New Jersey, according to The Washington Post.
• Steven Mnuchin, who is nominated to lead the Treasury Department, was registered in New York and California, CNN found.
So is this illegal?
Not really.
Have you ever moved to a new state? And did you call up the people in charge of voting in your old state to tell them to go ahead and take you off their list? Probably not. Neither, apparently, did some members of the Trump family and his White House.
They didn't let me up to the office, resulting in an actual staffer having to be dispatched downstairs to take my letter.
truly a man of the people
posted by entropicamericana at 12:46 PM on June 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
truly a man of the people
posted by entropicamericana at 12:46 PM on June 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
The Kris Kobach election/voter suppression commission is sending a letter to every state asking for the publicly available voter rolls.
This is public data, and the parties already have it
FYI, the second part is true but the first is not always/totally. Here in Virginia the rolls are not available to just anybody. There's a list of accepted classifications and they're not entirely unreasonable if they serve to keep them from being used to harass/market to and are open to every legitimate electoral-related purpose, though that's debatable.
This is public data, and the parties already have it
FYI, the second part is true but the first is not always/totally. Here in Virginia the rolls are not available to just anybody. There's a list of accepted classifications and they're not entirely unreasonable if they serve to keep them from being used to harass/market to and are open to every legitimate electoral-related purpose, though that's debatable.
Persons Who May Obtain Dataposted by phearlez at 12:47 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
- Virginia and federal courts for jury selection purposes
- Candidates for election or political party nomination
- Political party committees or officials
- Political action committees (PACs) which are currently registered with the ELECT or with the Federal Election Commission
- Incumbent office holders
- Non-profit organizations which promote voter participation and voter registration; and
- Members of the public seeking to promote voter participation and registration by means of a communication or mailing without intimidation or pressure exerted on the recipient
Have you ever moved to a new state? And did you call up the people in charge of voting in your old state to tell them to go ahead and take you off their list?
I can't swear to this, but last time I moved, I seem to recall the registration document saying there's was no need to contact your old state, the implication being that it would all happen automatically. Maybe it's the states who are falling down on the job. (Or maybe I misread the form.)
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 12:50 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
I can't swear to this, but last time I moved, I seem to recall the registration document saying there's was no need to contact your old state, the implication being that it would all happen automatically. Maybe it's the states who are falling down on the job. (Or maybe I misread the form.)
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 12:50 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
On Wednesday, Mr. Trump had announced in a pair of tweets that he would be asking for a “major investigation” into voter fraud, “including those registered to vote in two states.”
Back when we were more worried about Trump hiring competent evil people, I posited that the result of this investigation would be a total wipe of all voter registration nationwide, coupled with a re-registration regime that was "accidentally" bad in Democratic-leaning places. I'm not as worried about them being that smart anymore. Or at least, I'm less worried that they'll be able to do it without the Head Moron tweeting "Of course the point of the voter fraud investigation was to mess with Democratic strongholds."
posted by Etrigan at 12:50 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Back when we were more worried about Trump hiring competent evil people, I posited that the result of this investigation would be a total wipe of all voter registration nationwide, coupled with a re-registration regime that was "accidentally" bad in Democratic-leaning places. I'm not as worried about them being that smart anymore. Or at least, I'm less worried that they'll be able to do it without the Head Moron tweeting "Of course the point of the voter fraud investigation was to mess with Democratic strongholds."
posted by Etrigan at 12:50 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
True story: this is Toomey's new Philadelphia office, having relocated from a more centrally-located and easily-accessible location for reasons that definitely didn't have anything to do with making it harder for his constituents to actually visit the office and/or protest outside of it.
And don't forget: his new Philly office is in a federal building which means much harsher penalties for trespassing -- when we are outside for the weekly Tuesdays with Toomey protest, we are told to stick to the city-owned sidewalk toward the side of the building so as to avoid a year-long jail term for trespassing on federal property.
posted by mcduff at 12:57 PM on June 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
And don't forget: his new Philly office is in a federal building which means much harsher penalties for trespassing -- when we are outside for the weekly Tuesdays with Toomey protest, we are told to stick to the city-owned sidewalk toward the side of the building so as to avoid a year-long jail term for trespassing on federal property.
posted by mcduff at 12:57 PM on June 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
I can't swear to this, but last time I moved, I seem to recall the registration document saying there's was no need to contact your old state, the implication being that it would all happen automatically.
I moved from NY to HI and back to NY in the past three years and this was my experience.
Hawaii's application says: "Are you registered in another state? If yes, please provide your last registered address, county, state, and zip. I hereby authorize cancellation of my previous registration."
New York says: "To register you must: [...] • not claim the right to vote elsewhere. " (I did not interpret this as requiring me to de-register in HI; they ask you to list on the form the year and state in which you last voted)
posted by melissasaurus at 12:59 PM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
I moved from NY to HI and back to NY in the past three years and this was my experience.
Hawaii's application says: "Are you registered in another state? If yes, please provide your last registered address, county, state, and zip. I hereby authorize cancellation of my previous registration."
New York says: "To register you must: [...] • not claim the right to vote elsewhere. " (I did not interpret this as requiring me to de-register in HI; they ask you to list on the form the year and state in which you last voted)
posted by melissasaurus at 12:59 PM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
I can't swear to this, but last time I moved, I seem to recall the registration document saying there's was no need to contact your old state, the implication being that it would all happen automatically.
Your new locale really only has the right to say what they do and don't require. The reason all this registration stuff is so weird is because of the US's odd structure. Each state has the right, aside from a few federal-level requirements and possible (when it existed) voting rights act restrictions, to set its own rules about eligibility. I think everyone in this thread knows it but I'd wager that the average citizen doesn't realize that their state likely doesn't even have to listen to their input on who should be president at all.
So you could possibly - and I suspect this is why Erin hedged her bets a tiny bit in that article with "not really" rather than "no" when addressing the legality - register in a state that said "if you ever register somewhere else you must notify us within X days that you no longer can vote here." So if you are coming from State X and going to State Y, State Y has no basis to tell you that you don't have to tell State X anything.
Now, State X likely has no jurisdiction over you to force you to do shit once you've left their boundaries. If you're maintaining a secondary residence or a business there, yes, but people who up and split aren't under their purview anymore.
Maybe it's the states who are falling down on the job.
To some extent, for sure. Because when the states give a fuck they can cope with this. There's DMV communication now when you surrender a license in State Y from State X; they notify each other. They didn't always, but if I recall correctly this was pretty much sewn up about 15 years ago. Because they cared, in part because insurance companies and their lobbying dollars cared. Our voting system continues to be half-assed in many ways precisely because we don't care enough to treat running it like something we value.
posted by phearlez at 1:01 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Your new locale really only has the right to say what they do and don't require. The reason all this registration stuff is so weird is because of the US's odd structure. Each state has the right, aside from a few federal-level requirements and possible (when it existed) voting rights act restrictions, to set its own rules about eligibility. I think everyone in this thread knows it but I'd wager that the average citizen doesn't realize that their state likely doesn't even have to listen to their input on who should be president at all.
So you could possibly - and I suspect this is why Erin hedged her bets a tiny bit in that article with "not really" rather than "no" when addressing the legality - register in a state that said "if you ever register somewhere else you must notify us within X days that you no longer can vote here." So if you are coming from State X and going to State Y, State Y has no basis to tell you that you don't have to tell State X anything.
Now, State X likely has no jurisdiction over you to force you to do shit once you've left their boundaries. If you're maintaining a secondary residence or a business there, yes, but people who up and split aren't under their purview anymore.
Maybe it's the states who are falling down on the job.
To some extent, for sure. Because when the states give a fuck they can cope with this. There's DMV communication now when you surrender a license in State Y from State X; they notify each other. They didn't always, but if I recall correctly this was pretty much sewn up about 15 years ago. Because they cared, in part because insurance companies and their lobbying dollars cared. Our voting system continues to be half-assed in many ways precisely because we don't care enough to treat running it like something we value.
posted by phearlez at 1:01 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Am I wrong in reading the Kobach/Pence Commission letter where it says we "invite" you to submit feedback and provide data. Any reason to believe folks like Jerry Brown or Xavier Becerra wont just decline to respond, write back with "nah" or something more aggressively gfto-ish?
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 1:04 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 1:04 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Ana Navarro: Someone needs to tell Trump, "Listen, you crazy, lunatic 70-year-old man-baby, stop it"
Video at the link. Worth the watch.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 1:08 PM on June 29, 2017 [21 favorites]
Video at the link. Worth the watch.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 1:08 PM on June 29, 2017 [21 favorites]
1/ As ranking Dem on Approps Subcommittee overseeing CBO, I asked if they would score insurance losses outside 10 yr window. They said yes.
It took them a little bit, but CBO responded to Sen. Murphy's request with a second report: Longer-Term Effects of the Better Care Reconciliation Act of 2017 on Medicaid Spending. Under BCRA, Medicaid spending will be down 26% compared to current law in 2026, but the decreases accelerate, so it will be down 35% compared to current law in 2036. The result:
posted by zachlipton at 1:15 PM on June 29, 2017 [20 favorites]
It took them a little bit, but CBO responded to Sen. Murphy's request with a second report: Longer-Term Effects of the Better Care Reconciliation Act of 2017 on Medicaid Spending. Under BCRA, Medicaid spending will be down 26% compared to current law in 2026, but the decreases accelerate, so it will be down 35% compared to current law in 2036. The result:
under this legislation, after the next decade, states would continue to need to arrive at more efficient methods for delivering services (to the extent feasible) and to decide whether to commit more of their own resources, cut payments to health care providers and health plans, eliminate optional services, restrict eligibility for enrollment, or adopt some combination of those approaches. Over the long term, there would be increasing pressure on more states to use all of those tools to a greater extent.In other words, states spend through the nose themselves or make cuts.
posted by zachlipton at 1:15 PM on June 29, 2017 [20 favorites]
Am I wrong in reading the Kobach/Pence Commission letter where it says we "invite" you to submit feedback and provide data. Any reason to believe folks like Jerry Brown or Xavier Becerra wont just decline to respond, write back with "nah" or something more aggressively gfto-ish?
Looking into whether California voter information is subject to FOI (and thus meaning Brown couldn't tell them to pound sand) I find this and this graf
So it sounds like Cali code says hand it over, though the CA SoS gets to weigh in.
I wouldn't ever be too swayed by language like "we invite you," since I don't think most courts will look fondly on claiming "oh we thought we were free to say fuck off" if there's an obligation to share. My personal familiarity with this comes mostly with debt collection stuff where courts have said that you can scrawl "prove it" on a piece of paper in crayon and debt collectors are never the less obligated to provide validation; you don't have in that case to pony up some magic words in the form of law citations. My training for responding to FOI requests when I was a State of VA employee were similar.
posted by phearlez at 1:16 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Looking into whether California voter information is subject to FOI (and thus meaning Brown couldn't tell them to pound sand) I find this and this graf
6254.4. (a) The home address, telephone number, e-mail address, precinct number, or other number specified by the Secretary of State for voter registration purposes, and prior registration information shown on the voter registration card for all registered voters is confidential, and shall not be disclosed to any person, except pursuant to Section 2194 of the Elections Code.Findlaw says 2194 says
(3) Shall be provided with respect to any voter, subject to the provisions of Sections 2166.5, 2166.7, and 2188, to any candidate for federal, state, or local office, to any committee for or against any initiative or referendum measure for which legal publication is made, and to any person for election, scholarly, journalistic, or political purposes, or for governmental purposes, as determined by the Secretary of State.bold mine.
So it sounds like Cali code says hand it over, though the CA SoS gets to weigh in.
I wouldn't ever be too swayed by language like "we invite you," since I don't think most courts will look fondly on claiming "oh we thought we were free to say fuck off" if there's an obligation to share. My personal familiarity with this comes mostly with debt collection stuff where courts have said that you can scrawl "prove it" on a piece of paper in crayon and debt collectors are never the less obligated to provide validation; you don't have in that case to pony up some magic words in the form of law citations. My training for responding to FOI requests when I was a State of VA employee were similar.
posted by phearlez at 1:16 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Follow-up: Trump attacks 'fake news' CNN during energy speech
President Trump veered into an attack on the news media Thursday during a speech detailing his plan to expand energy development.posted by Barack Spinoza at 1:19 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Trump spoke about decadesold fears the U.S. was running out of oil, saying “it was fake.”
“Don’t we love that term, fake? What we’ve learned about fake over the last little while. Fake News. CNN — fake," Trump said at the Energy Department. "Whoops, their camera just went off."
Maybe it's the states who are falling down on the job.
Hey I do this job! There is software that helps larger states. With smaller states it's just jerks like me. I am doing it right now. We get an excel spreadsheet with all the people in town on it. We have to look and see if we (we=all the selectmen and all the Justices of the Peace, max 15 people) have moved or died or something else. If we flag someone as needing to be rechecked they get sent a "challenge letter" which has some legalese where you have to say that yes you are registered here, live here and don't live elsewhere. I've gotten them at times where I was living in a new place but still voting in my old place for one election. They're serious and have real penalties. It's tough, right? We're a state with no Voter ID laws (which I appreciate) and same day voting (which I also appreciate) so I can see why people feel like it's a little ... loose. I assume we also get notifications that people have moved from their new place, but we may not (the town clerk handles those things).
But realistically voter fraud doesn't happen (tampering may, that is a different thing). But sometimes you can be on the rolls in two places. It would be pretty hard to vote in two places... but not impossible.
posted by jessamyn at 1:20 PM on June 29, 2017 [36 favorites]
Hey I do this job! There is software that helps larger states. With smaller states it's just jerks like me. I am doing it right now. We get an excel spreadsheet with all the people in town on it. We have to look and see if we (we=all the selectmen and all the Justices of the Peace, max 15 people) have moved or died or something else. If we flag someone as needing to be rechecked they get sent a "challenge letter" which has some legalese where you have to say that yes you are registered here, live here and don't live elsewhere. I've gotten them at times where I was living in a new place but still voting in my old place for one election. They're serious and have real penalties. It's tough, right? We're a state with no Voter ID laws (which I appreciate) and same day voting (which I also appreciate) so I can see why people feel like it's a little ... loose. I assume we also get notifications that people have moved from their new place, but we may not (the town clerk handles those things).
But realistically voter fraud doesn't happen (tampering may, that is a different thing). But sometimes you can be on the rolls in two places. It would be pretty hard to vote in two places... but not impossible.
posted by jessamyn at 1:20 PM on June 29, 2017 [36 favorites]
Why hasn't the travel ban expired? The March 6th order states:
I therefore direct that the entry into the United States of nationals of those six countries be suspended for 90 days from the effective date of this order, subject to the limitations, waivers, and exceptions set forth in sections 3 and 12 of this order.
While I can imagine that the "effective date" of the order reset itself with it being halted by the lower courts up to the Supreme Court review, the ban gives the reason for the 90 days:
Under these authorities, I determined that, for a brief period of 90 days, while existing screening and vetting procedures were under review,
That review has had 90 days to take place - and more. In fact, the March 6th order comments that the original order of January 27th requested the 90 days.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:21 PM on June 29, 2017
I therefore direct that the entry into the United States of nationals of those six countries be suspended for 90 days from the effective date of this order, subject to the limitations, waivers, and exceptions set forth in sections 3 and 12 of this order.
While I can imagine that the "effective date" of the order reset itself with it being halted by the lower courts up to the Supreme Court review, the ban gives the reason for the 90 days:
Under these authorities, I determined that, for a brief period of 90 days, while existing screening and vetting procedures were under review,
That review has had 90 days to take place - and more. In fact, the March 6th order comments that the original order of January 27th requested the 90 days.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:21 PM on June 29, 2017
Ana Navarro: Someone needs to tell Trump, "Listen, you crazy, lunatic 70-year-old man-baby, stop it"
Well, it's forward motion I think, but still far from accepting that he can't stop it. Won't would also be good but either way we're still pissing around.
Hey USA, howzitgoin ok so kind of an important thing, okay? Your President, right, is a sociopath. Okay. Yeah. So-she-o-path. So, right, so get good with that 'cause we need to do some maneuvers okay.
posted by petebest at 1:22 PM on June 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
Well, it's forward motion I think, but still far from accepting that he can't stop it. Won't would also be good but either way we're still pissing around.
Hey USA, howzitgoin ok so kind of an important thing, okay? Your President, right, is a sociopath. Okay. Yeah. So-she-o-path. So, right, so get good with that 'cause we need to do some maneuvers okay.
posted by petebest at 1:22 PM on June 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
"Whoops, their camera just went off."
Daniel Dale, Toronto Star; This afternoon, for the fourth time in a year, Trump lied that CNN turned off its camera after he insulted CNN in a speech. [SLTwitter]
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 1:25 PM on June 29, 2017 [48 favorites]
Daniel Dale, Toronto Star; This afternoon, for the fourth time in a year, Trump lied that CNN turned off its camera after he insulted CNN in a speech. [SLTwitter]
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 1:25 PM on June 29, 2017 [48 favorites]
Hey USA, howzitgoin ok so kind of an important thing, okay? Your President, right, is a sociopath. Okay. Yeah. So-she-o-path. So, right, so get good with that 'cause we need to do some maneuvers okay.
Dood, we know. ALL of us know. We do not need you to inform us. We need you to figure out a way to get the half of our voters who like it to wise up. Cuz the other half of us are not gonna get good with it and we can't seem to convince those folks to expect better.
posted by phearlez at 1:28 PM on June 29, 2017 [14 favorites]
Dood, we know. ALL of us know. We do not need you to inform us. We need you to figure out a way to get the half of our voters who like it to wise up. Cuz the other half of us are not gonna get good with it and we can't seem to convince those folks to expect better.
posted by phearlez at 1:28 PM on June 29, 2017 [14 favorites]
Anybody else feel like things are coming off the rails even more lately? It feels like violence is flaring up more, that more large changes are happening under the radar, that voter rolls investigation, no new Russia news...I don't know, its just this uneasy feeling. I feel like maybe we're winning the battles (like health care) but I feel more insecure.
posted by Brainy at 1:30 PM on June 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Brainy at 1:30 PM on June 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
It's kind of a slam dunk of "dude crazy" by now.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:33 PM on June 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:33 PM on June 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
I don't want him to stop tweeting. I want all his mean, petty, and ignorant obsessiveness to be very very visible. As long as he's in the White House I don't want his dumbfuckery hidden so that people can ignore it.
posted by puddledork at 1:35 PM on June 29, 2017 [33 favorites]
posted by puddledork at 1:35 PM on June 29, 2017 [33 favorites]
Dood, we know. ALL of us know. We do not need you to inform us.
Should have put quotes on it: I meant *that's* what CNN should be saying, not just "he should stop."
The time for hot takes on whether or not trump is crazy and just exactly how/why is kinda over, yeah?
Not sure how hot the takes could possibly be but he's still President. If it's over I must have missed it. We've seen an occasional opinion piece or something saying he's unfit, I'm talking about a drumbeat. Point of view. The POV for most of these articles is still "normal".
Ana Navarro telling him to stop tweeting insults is about as far as we've got. I look forward to being shown that we're much further along in the process of ousting a clearly unstable man.
posted by petebest at 1:42 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Should have put quotes on it: I meant *that's* what CNN should be saying, not just "he should stop."
The time for hot takes on whether or not trump is crazy and just exactly how/why is kinda over, yeah?
Not sure how hot the takes could possibly be but he's still President. If it's over I must have missed it. We've seen an occasional opinion piece or something saying he's unfit, I'm talking about a drumbeat. Point of view. The POV for most of these articles is still "normal".
Ana Navarro telling him to stop tweeting insults is about as far as we've got. I look forward to being shown that we're much further along in the process of ousting a clearly unstable man.
posted by petebest at 1:42 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
WSJ: Senate Health Bill Could Hit Employer-Sponsored Plans
Little-noticed provisions in the Senate Republican health bill could have a significant impact on employer-provided health plans, removing four million people from such coverage in 2018 compared with current law, according to one projection, and paving the way for higher out-of-pocket costs for many workers.posted by zachlipton at 1:44 PM on June 29, 2017 [37 favorites]
...
Under the Senate legislation, some larger companies would drop coverage in part because they no longer would face a penalty for not offering health benefits, according to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office. They also would be freed from a requirement that their plans cover at least 60% of such costs as coinsurance, deductibles and copayments.
Employers would be free to offer less-comprehensive plans that limit coverage to a certain number of physician visits, days in the hospital and prescriptions.
zachlipton: Employers would be free to offer less-comprehensive plans that limit coverage to a certain number of physician visits, days in the hospital and prescriptions.
Because that's the problem, people just hanging out with doctors for no good reason, staying in hospitals for weeks on end for that relaxing atmosphere of beeping machines and weird food, and popping pills for fun. Get back to work, you slackers!
posted by filthy light thief at 1:54 PM on June 29, 2017 [33 favorites]
Because that's the problem, people just hanging out with doctors for no good reason, staying in hospitals for weeks on end for that relaxing atmosphere of beeping machines and weird food, and popping pills for fun. Get back to work, you slackers!
posted by filthy light thief at 1:54 PM on June 29, 2017 [33 favorites]
People just hanging out with doctors for no good reason
I make appointments just so I can sit in the waiting room for hours listening to The View at high volume.
posted by diogenes at 2:01 PM on June 29, 2017 [22 favorites]
I make appointments just so I can sit in the waiting room for hours listening to The View at high volume.
posted by diogenes at 2:01 PM on June 29, 2017 [22 favorites]
*wavy time-machine lines and harp trills*
Ehrlichman: “Edgar Kaiser is running his Permanente deal for profit. And the reason that he can … the reason he can do it … I had Edgar Kaiser come in … talk to me about this and I went into it in some depth. All the incentives are toward less medical care, because …”
President Nixon: [Unclear.]
Ehrlichman: “… the less care they give them, the more money they make.”
President Nixon: “Fine.” [Unclear.]
posted by petebest at 2:01 PM on June 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
Ehrlichman: “Edgar Kaiser is running his Permanente deal for profit. And the reason that he can … the reason he can do it … I had Edgar Kaiser come in … talk to me about this and I went into it in some depth. All the incentives are toward less medical care, because …”
President Nixon: [Unclear.]
Ehrlichman: “… the less care they give them, the more money they make.”
President Nixon: “Fine.” [Unclear.]
posted by petebest at 2:01 PM on June 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
What we’ve learned about fake over the last little while.
I feel like he is literally sucking my brains out with a straw
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:04 PM on June 29, 2017 [17 favorites]
I feel like he is literally sucking my brains out with a straw
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:04 PM on June 29, 2017 [17 favorites]
In my blinding rage I mentioned Xavier Becerra who is, of course, the attorney general of CA, not the secretary of state.
That would be Alex Padilla, who issued a statement responding to the pence-kobach letter which reads in part:
I will not provide sensitive voter information to a commission that has already inaccurately passed judgment that million s of Californians voted illegally.
Link Here
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 2:07 PM on June 29, 2017 [36 favorites]
That would be Alex Padilla, who issued a statement responding to the pence-kobach letter which reads in part:
I will not provide sensitive voter information to a commission that has already inaccurately passed judgment that million s of Californians voted illegally.
Link Here
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 2:07 PM on June 29, 2017 [36 favorites]
I think California's Secretary of State just told Kobach where to go (Tweet with statement as image)
posted by TwoWordReview at 2:08 PM on June 29, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by TwoWordReview at 2:08 PM on June 29, 2017 [19 favorites]
Being registered to vote in more than one place isn't illegal. That happens every time somebody moves while their registration is still valid. Voting more than once is illegal.
Because that's the problem, people just hanging out with doctors for no good reason, staying in hospitals for weeks on end for that relaxing atmosphere of beeping machines and weird food, and popping pills for fun. Get back to work, you slackers!
This just goes to show how short-sighted the average Republican business mind is. Like, if the goal is to make a shitload of money off the medical industry, they would be marketing "destination medical resorts" on E! and including massages and gourmet food and lord only knows what. You need to heal from your recent surgery? How about a day cruise that putts up the California coast and comes with a staff of nurse practitioners and physical therapists and people to help you out of bed? Or a mountain hotel with views from every room?
But no, not only do they want to price everyone out of the product, they want to reduce their potential market by tens of millions of people, while radically increasing their overhead and bureaucracy. That is absolutely terrible capitalism. Like, if the supposed Republican ideal is about growing the economy, then why is it that none of these people know even the first damn thing about growth? If the GOP is supposedly the friend of business, then why don't they practice even the most absurdly basic business principles?
posted by Autumnheart at 2:09 PM on June 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
Because that's the problem, people just hanging out with doctors for no good reason, staying in hospitals for weeks on end for that relaxing atmosphere of beeping machines and weird food, and popping pills for fun. Get back to work, you slackers!
This just goes to show how short-sighted the average Republican business mind is. Like, if the goal is to make a shitload of money off the medical industry, they would be marketing "destination medical resorts" on E! and including massages and gourmet food and lord only knows what. You need to heal from your recent surgery? How about a day cruise that putts up the California coast and comes with a staff of nurse practitioners and physical therapists and people to help you out of bed? Or a mountain hotel with views from every room?
But no, not only do they want to price everyone out of the product, they want to reduce their potential market by tens of millions of people, while radically increasing their overhead and bureaucracy. That is absolutely terrible capitalism. Like, if the supposed Republican ideal is about growing the economy, then why is it that none of these people know even the first damn thing about growth? If the GOP is supposedly the friend of business, then why don't they practice even the most absurdly basic business principles?
posted by Autumnheart at 2:09 PM on June 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
Dood, we know. ALL of us know. We do not need you to inform us. We need you to figure out a way to get the half of our voters who like it to wise up. Cuz the other half of us are not gonna get good with it and we can't seem to convince those folks to expect better.
I see very few people trying to convince those folks of anything.
posted by rocket88 at 2:15 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
I see very few people trying to convince those folks of anything.
posted by rocket88 at 2:15 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Ah, voter suppression. More fascist shit that the wingers foisted on us and the "sane moderates" aided and abetted (and continue to do so) with enthusiasm.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:16 PM on June 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 2:16 PM on June 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
Being registered to vote in more than one place isn't illegal. That happens every time somebody moves while their registration is still valid. Voting more than once is illegal.
Everyone can vote twice illegally right now, even if they are only registered in one state, just by sending in an absentee ballot and then showing up also at the polls. (or by sending in two absentee ballots).
Yet another reason why this focus on multiple registration is intellectually dishonest. But as an argument for non-wonks, or a question to Trump, pointing out that his daughters and key staffers are double-registered is the best tack I think.
posted by msalt at 2:28 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Everyone can vote twice illegally right now, even if they are only registered in one state, just by sending in an absentee ballot and then showing up also at the polls. (or by sending in two absentee ballots).
Yet another reason why this focus on multiple registration is intellectually dishonest. But as an argument for non-wonks, or a question to Trump, pointing out that his daughters and key staffers are double-registered is the best tack I think.
posted by msalt at 2:28 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
WSJ: GOP Operative Sought Clinton Emails From Hackers, Implied a Connection to Flynn
Before the 2016 presidential election, a longtime Republican opposition researcher mounted an independent campaign to obtain emails he believed were stolen from Hillary Clinton’s private server, likely by Russian hackers.posted by zachlipton at 2:28 PM on June 29, 2017 [50 favorites]
In conversations with members of his circle and with others he tried to recruit to help him, the GOP operative, Peter W. Smith, implied he was working with retired Lt. Gen. Mike Flynn, at the time a senior adviser to then-candidate Donald Trump.
“He said, ‘I’m talking to Michael Flynn about this—if you find anything, can you let me know?’” said Eric York, a computer-security expert from Atlanta who searched hacker forums on Mr. Smith’s behalf for people who might have access to the emails.
Er.. Wait. what? On May 10th, Henry Kissenger shows up in the Oval Office and then today...
Vladimir Putin received American political scientist and former US secretary of state Henry Kissinger at the Kremlin.
The reappearance of Henry Kissinger in the White House and the Kremlin has passed comparatively without comment amongst all the crazier goings-on with the Trump administration (hat tip to Adam Khan @Khanoisseur).
posted by Doktor Zed at 2:30 PM on June 29, 2017 [24 favorites]
Vladimir Putin received American political scientist and former US secretary of state Henry Kissinger at the Kremlin.
The reappearance of Henry Kissinger in the White House and the Kremlin has passed comparatively without comment amongst all the crazier goings-on with the Trump administration (hat tip to Adam Khan @Khanoisseur).
Kissinger, a Longtime Putin Confidant, Sidles Up to Trump (Politico):If power is the ultimate aphrodisiac, as Kissinger once claimed, then the Trump-Putin connection looks like his Viagra.
"For years, Kissinger has argued that promoting a greater balance of power between the U.S. and Russia would improve global stability. But skeptics fear this approach will sacrifice other values and reward bad behavior by the Kremlin, including its alleged election meddling, its invasion of Ukraine and its support for Syrian dictator Bashar Assad. There’s also the question of how Kissinger himself would personally benefit from a new reset with Russia: Aside from the reputational boost of having easy access to two major world leaders, the former secretary of state's secretive consulting firm, Kissinger Associates Inc., could get a bump in business."
Henry Kissinger Says Donald Trump Is Right about Russia (Fortune):
Speaking via live stream at the World Economic Form in Davos, Switzerland on Friday, shortly before Trump's Inauguration, Kissinger said that he agrees with Trump's "general attitude" toward Russia. The former Secretary of State said America needed to be less confrontational with Russia, and that that should be a major priority for Trump.
"I hope that an effort will be made for a serious dialogue which tries to avoid the drift towards confrontation and in which Europe, America and Russia come to some agreement about the limits within which military pressure is carried out," Kissinger outlined.
Henry Kissinger Has 'Advised Donald Trump to Accept' Crimea as Part of Russia (Independent):
Is the veteran US diplomat Henry Kissinger working to secure a rapprochement between the US and Moscow by pushing for an end to sanctions in exchange for the removal of Russian troops from eastern Ukraine? A flurry of reports suggest the 93-year-old diplomat is positioning himself as a intermediary between Vladimir Putin and President-elect Donald Trump. He has publicly praised Mr Trump, and traveled to Trump Tower in New York to offer his counsel built on decades of lobbying and diplomacy. A report in the German tabloid Der Bild headlined ‘Kissinger to prevent new Cold War’, claimed the former envoy was working towards a new relationship with Russia.
posted by Doktor Zed at 2:30 PM on June 29, 2017 [24 favorites]
GOP Operative Sought Clinton Emails From Hackers, Implied a Connection to Flynn
For all you Wittes watchers, this is the boom.
posted by diogenes at 2:30 PM on June 29, 2017 [21 favorites]
For all you Wittes watchers, this is the boom.
posted by diogenes at 2:30 PM on June 29, 2017 [21 favorites]
This bit is also new to me and huge:
The operation Mr. Smith described is consistent with information that has been examined by U.S. investigators probing Russian interference in the elections.posted by zachlipton at 2:32 PM on June 29, 2017 [27 favorites]
Those investigators have examined reports from intelligence agencies that describe Russian hackers discussing how to obtain emails from Mrs. Clinton’s server and then transmit them to Mr. Flynn via an intermediary, according to U.S. officials with knowledge of the intelligence.
So Flynn is the fall guy? I suppose we knew that all along.
posted by Justinian at 2:33 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 2:33 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Henry Kissinger Has 'Advised Donald Trump to Accept' Crimea as Part of Russia (Independent):
Is the veteran US diplomat Henry Kissinger working to secure a rapprochement between the US and Moscow by pushing for an end to sanctions in exchange for the removal of Russian troops from eastern Ukraine? A flurry of reports suggest the 93-year-old diplomat is positioning himself as a intermediary between Vladimir Putin and President-elect Donald Trump. He has publicly praised Mr Trump, and traveled to Trump Tower in New York to offer his counsel built on decades of lobbying and diplomacy. A report in the German tabloid Der Bild headlined ‘Kissinger to prevent new Cold War’, claimed the former envoy was working towards a new relationship with Russia.
"Mr Trump, surely Hitler will stop with Czechoslovakia."
If Trump accepts Crimea as part of Russia there will be hell to pay in the Baltics.
posted by Talez at 2:34 PM on June 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
Is the veteran US diplomat Henry Kissinger working to secure a rapprochement between the US and Moscow by pushing for an end to sanctions in exchange for the removal of Russian troops from eastern Ukraine? A flurry of reports suggest the 93-year-old diplomat is positioning himself as a intermediary between Vladimir Putin and President-elect Donald Trump. He has publicly praised Mr Trump, and traveled to Trump Tower in New York to offer his counsel built on decades of lobbying and diplomacy. A report in the German tabloid Der Bild headlined ‘Kissinger to prevent new Cold War’, claimed the former envoy was working towards a new relationship with Russia.
"Mr Trump, surely Hitler will stop with Czechoslovakia."
If Trump accepts Crimea as part of Russia there will be hell to pay in the Baltics.
posted by Talez at 2:34 PM on June 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
The Kris Kobach election/voter suppression commission is sending a letter to every state asking for the publicly available voter rolls.
That's only half the story. Here's the other half. DOJ is also asking all the states for information about their voter rolls, specifically their procedures & history regarding voter fraud. It's pretty clear these are coordinated, happening on the same day & all. Watch for a story to drop that DOJ's civil rights team is preparing lawsuits against the states to force them to trim the voter rolls & commit the largest act of vote suppression in decades.
posted by scalefree at 2:34 PM on June 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
That's only half the story. Here's the other half. DOJ is also asking all the states for information about their voter rolls, specifically their procedures & history regarding voter fraud. It's pretty clear these are coordinated, happening on the same day & all. Watch for a story to drop that DOJ's civil rights team is preparing lawsuits against the states to force them to trim the voter rolls & commit the largest act of vote suppression in decades.
posted by scalefree at 2:34 PM on June 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
Here's a non-paywalled version of the WSJ article.
posted by orrnyereg at 2:35 PM on June 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by orrnyereg at 2:35 PM on June 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's quite bad for Flynn but it portrays it as independent of the Trump campaign, so meh. We already knew Flynn was toast.
posted by Justinian at 2:36 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 2:36 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
A Trump campaign official said that Mr. Smith didn’t work for the campaign, and that if Mr. Flynn coordinated with him in any way, it would have been in his capacity as a private individual.
So any collusion by Flynn was in his capacity as a private individual? That's convenient, but I don't think it works that way.
Sure, I hired the hitman, but he was acting as a private individual...
posted by diogenes at 2:37 PM on June 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
So any collusion by Flynn was in his capacity as a private individual? That's convenient, but I don't think it works that way.
Sure, I hired the hitman, but he was acting as a private individual...
posted by diogenes at 2:37 PM on June 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
"Mr. Smith died at age 81 on May 14, which was about 10 days after the Journal interviewed him."
Are we supposed to infer something from this? I'm with lalex; it's hard to say if this is a big deal.
posted by orrnyereg at 2:38 PM on June 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
Are we supposed to infer something from this? I'm with lalex; it's hard to say if this is a big deal.
posted by orrnyereg at 2:38 PM on June 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
What did he die of? High velocity lead poisoning?
posted by PenDevil at 2:40 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 2:40 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Suicide by polonium ingestion probably.
posted by Justinian at 2:40 PM on June 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 2:40 PM on June 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
I would describe a story that says that we have intelligence reports that Russian hackers sought to hack Clinton's emails and hand them to a senior Trump advisor at the same time that senior Trump advisor was working with people to try to obtain hacked Clinton emails as a fairly big boom indeed. Oh, and did I mention that the senior Trump advisor in question later repeatedly lied about his interactions with Russian officials and omitted Russian ties on his security clearance forms?
posted by zachlipton at 2:40 PM on June 29, 2017 [58 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 2:40 PM on June 29, 2017 [58 favorites]
I guess what I meant is, are we to assume that his death wasn't from natural causes?
posted by orrnyereg at 2:46 PM on June 29, 2017
posted by orrnyereg at 2:46 PM on June 29, 2017
WSJ: GOP Operative Sought Clinton Emails From Hackers, Implied a Connection to Flynn
And there's the boom.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:46 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
And there's the boom.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:46 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm with zachlipton. This line is more important than any of the details about Mr. Smith's hijinx:
Those investigators have examined reports from intelligence agencies that describe Russian hackers discussing how to obtain emails from Mrs. Clinton’s server and then transmit them to Mr. Flynn via an intermediary, according to U.S. officials with knowledge of the intelligence.
posted by diogenes at 2:46 PM on June 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
Those investigators have examined reports from intelligence agencies that describe Russian hackers discussing how to obtain emails from Mrs. Clinton’s server and then transmit them to Mr. Flynn via an intermediary, according to U.S. officials with knowledge of the intelligence.
posted by diogenes at 2:46 PM on June 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
What is the likelihood the hacking collusion could be tied to Kushner's attempt to set up a secret communication channel with Russia?
posted by Emera Gratia at 2:47 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Emera Gratia at 2:47 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
That's it? Someone tangentially associated with Flynn may have sought out Clinton's deleted emails from hacker groups but couldn't manage to get them in the end? The intentions of third-hand associates are not news. All that "tick tick" nonsense for a wet fart.
That's it. Get out of the car, Wittes.
posted by FakeFreyja at 2:47 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
That's it. Get out of the car, Wittes.
posted by FakeFreyja at 2:47 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
I don't think we're to assume anything other than he was alive when he was interviewed by the Journal and now he isn't. It's fairly common for news stories to mention when a source dies between the interview and publication.
posted by zachlipton at 2:48 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 2:48 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
The intentions of third-hand associates are not news.
Agreed. But Russian hackers discussing how to get information to Flynn via an intermediary is news. They didn't pick Flynn's name out of a hat.
posted by diogenes at 2:51 PM on June 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
Agreed. But Russian hackers discussing how to get information to Flynn via an intermediary is news. They didn't pick Flynn's name out of a hat.
posted by diogenes at 2:51 PM on June 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
In the '90s, Smith was connected to the Arkansas Project. Shit. It's enough to make a person a conspiracy nut.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:51 PM on June 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by octobersurprise at 2:51 PM on June 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
All that "tick tick" nonsense for a wet fart.
Whoa, hold on. This was not a wet fart. It includes information that the Russians were specifically trying to funnel Clinton info to Flynn. This is a deadly dry fart, with a lighter in position.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 2:52 PM on June 29, 2017 [17 favorites]
Whoa, hold on. This was not a wet fart. It includes information that the Russians were specifically trying to funnel Clinton info to Flynn. This is a deadly dry fart, with a lighter in position.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 2:52 PM on June 29, 2017 [17 favorites]
Sure, I hired the hitman, but he was acting as a private individual...
Sure, I hired a campaign adviser who gives speeches in Moscow criticizing U.S. sanctions against Russia, but he was acting as a private individual...
posted by mcdoublewide at 2:53 PM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Sure, I hired a campaign adviser who gives speeches in Moscow criticizing U.S. sanctions against Russia, but he was acting as a private individual...
posted by mcdoublewide at 2:53 PM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Russian hackers discussing how to get information to Flynn via an intermediary is news. They didn't pick Flynn's name out of a hat.
No. They wouldn't have. Flynn requested the emails. That's the boom.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 2:54 PM on June 29, 2017 [15 favorites]
No. They wouldn't have. Flynn requested the emails. That's the boom.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 2:54 PM on June 29, 2017 [15 favorites]
This is an epic case of burying the lede.
posted by diogenes at 2:54 PM on June 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 2:54 PM on June 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
I get that people want a silver bullet, but this is a pretty big boom, not a nothingburger. It's the first direct evidence of collusion between Russia and Trump associates. And this quote added to the part Zach highlighted is also interesting.
In phone conversations, Mr. Smith told a computer expert he was in direct contact with Mr. Flynn and his son, according to this expert. The person said an anti-Clinton research document prepared by Mr. Smith’s group identified the younger Mr. Flynn as someone associated with the effort. The expert said that based on his conversations with Mr. Smith, he understood the elder Mr. Flynn to be coordinating with Mr. Smith’s group in his capacity as a Trump campaign adviser.posted by chris24 at 2:55 PM on June 29, 2017 [35 favorites]
Just because you're getting shelled daily doesn't mean they're not bombshellls.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 2:57 PM on June 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by Barack Spinoza at 2:57 PM on June 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
Trump, on stage with cameras rolling: I hope Russia's hacked Clinton's emails.
GOP operative: I'm working with Trump's advisor. Anyone have hacked Clinton emails?
GOP operative: Hey people who might have hacked Clinton emails: I think you're involved with the Russian Government
US intelligence: Russian officials talked about hacking Clinton emails and giving them to Trump's advisor
Trump's advisor: I'm going to lie about my contacts with Russian officials a whole bunch
Trump: No, you're the puppet. How dare anyone accuse anyone of collusion?
This might pose a problem for the claim that Trump was just "joking" when he asked Russia to hack Clinton's emails.
posted by zachlipton at 2:57 PM on June 29, 2017 [38 favorites]
GOP operative: I'm working with Trump's advisor. Anyone have hacked Clinton emails?
GOP operative: Hey people who might have hacked Clinton emails: I think you're involved with the Russian Government
US intelligence: Russian officials talked about hacking Clinton emails and giving them to Trump's advisor
Trump's advisor: I'm going to lie about my contacts with Russian officials a whole bunch
Trump: No, you're the puppet. How dare anyone accuse anyone of collusion?
This might pose a problem for the claim that Trump was just "joking" when he asked Russia to hack Clinton's emails.
posted by zachlipton at 2:57 PM on June 29, 2017 [38 favorites]
The expert said that based on his conversations with Mr. Smith, he understood the elder Mr. Flynn to be coordinating with Mr. Smith’s group in his capacity as a Trump campaign adviser.
That isn't as big a deal though. That's just Flynn colluding with some ratfuckers bumbling around in hacker forums.
posted by diogenes at 2:58 PM on June 29, 2017
That isn't as big a deal though. That's just Flynn colluding with some ratfuckers bumbling around in hacker forums.
posted by diogenes at 2:58 PM on June 29, 2017
Oho, and Flynn the Younger is involved as well? Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.
posted by orrnyereg at 2:59 PM on June 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by orrnyereg at 2:59 PM on June 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
That isn't as big a deal though. That's just Flynn colluding with some ratfuckers bumbling around in hacker forums.
It might be worth some investigator's while to look at what else the expert, Eric York, has been up to. I've been told by someone who knows him that he's a true believer, conspiracist & gun fetishist.
posted by scalefree at 3:06 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
It might be worth some investigator's while to look at what else the expert, Eric York, has been up to. I've been told by someone who knows him that he's a true believer, conspiracist & gun fetishist.
posted by scalefree at 3:06 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
That isn't as big a deal though. That's just Flynn colluding with some ratfuckers bumbling around in hacker forums.
Even if that's the full extent of it, it's still a big deal.
I don't think that's the full extent of it.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:06 PM on June 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
Even if that's the full extent of it, it's still a big deal.
I don't think that's the full extent of it.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:06 PM on June 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
(Is this a good enough reason for a fresh thread?)
posted by salix at 3:06 PM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by salix at 3:06 PM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
How does Ted Cruz go grocery shopping without people, say, throwing pudding cups in his face?
Well from people I know who try to track him down and confront him when he's in Texas, I'd say the answer is he doesn't. The only time he seems to leave his home is when he has to go to a country club to meet with rich Republicans who give him money. And people protest outside the club. They also started the Ted Cruz Is Missing campaign around town during the last recess.
posted by threeturtles at 3:08 PM on June 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
Well from people I know who try to track him down and confront him when he's in Texas, I'd say the answer is he doesn't. The only time he seems to leave his home is when he has to go to a country club to meet with rich Republicans who give him money. And people protest outside the club. They also started the Ted Cruz Is Missing campaign around town during the last recess.
posted by threeturtles at 3:08 PM on June 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
Even if that's the full extent of it, it's still a big deal.
I don't think that's the full extent of it.
For sure. I'm just saying that Flynn's connection to Smith isn't the main story.
posted by diogenes at 3:08 PM on June 29, 2017
I don't think that's the full extent of it.
For sure. I'm just saying that Flynn's connection to Smith isn't the main story.
posted by diogenes at 3:08 PM on June 29, 2017
It may be a big deal, but compared to the stuff the GOP will actually act on, we shouldn't be giving it a whole lot of attention. The voter suppression and destruction of the Great Society safety nets are going on right now, and most likely with a fair share of help from NeverTrumpers both in and out of elected office. We can all pay attention to multiple things, but keep your focus and pressure on the anti-democratic shit going on that doesn't involve trusting a 3rd party.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:11 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 3:11 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Telling people what they should or shouldn't focus on never ends well.
posted by diogenes at 3:14 PM on June 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 3:14 PM on June 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
For sure. I'm just saying that Flynn's connection to Smith isn't the main story.
I have no idea what he'll say but I predict Eric York will make a fine cooperating witness.
posted by scalefree at 3:14 PM on June 29, 2017
I have no idea what he'll say but I predict Eric York will make a fine cooperating witness.
posted by scalefree at 3:14 PM on June 29, 2017
It's a bit late for "infrastructure week," but we finally got the new FASTLANE INFRA Grant NOFO!
But when the NOFO went out, there was no public website for the grant, and the FASTLANE website was still up here: https://www.transportation.gov/buildamerica/FASTLANEgrants. Today, it now redirects to https://www.transportation.gov/buildamerica/infragrants, and there's more information online.
This feels like another petty "let's tear down what Obama did, and do our own thing, but really keep doing most of what we did under Obama, because we didn't have anything else planned, and what he did wasn't actually bad."
posted by filthy light thief at 3:14 PM on June 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
“We need to take steps to get more bang for the buck,” the agency said in a fact sheet. “By getting more of our partners to use federal funding as a supplement — not a substitute — we seek to increase the amount of overall funding that goes to infrastructure."Yes, that's actually language in the NOFO FAQ (PDF). It's pretty terrible. And the NOFO (PDF) isn't scanned in straight and the text isn't searchable, so it feels like a real rush job, which it likely is, given that there was no advance warning, just a sudden email on Wednesday morning.
But the DOT also recognizes that rural projects aren’t always good candidates for private sector investment, which is why the department is also calling for an “equitable balance in funding for geographic diversity among recipients.”
But when the NOFO went out, there was no public website for the grant, and the FASTLANE website was still up here: https://www.transportation.gov/buildamerica/FASTLANEgrants. Today, it now redirects to https://www.transportation.gov/buildamerica/infragrants, and there's more information online.
This feels like another petty "let's tear down what Obama did, and do our own thing, but really keep doing most of what we did under Obama, because we didn't have anything else planned, and what he did wasn't actually bad."
posted by filthy light thief at 3:14 PM on June 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
The WSJ has evidence of this stuff, right? Or did that guy just tell them that and then croak 10 days later?
posted by gucci mane at 3:15 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by gucci mane at 3:15 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
For sure. I'm just saying that Flynn's connection to Smith isn't the main story.
The point I was not very clearly trying to make with that quote was that he was telling Smith he was doing this as a representative of the Trump campaign.
posted by chris24 at 3:17 PM on June 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
The point I was not very clearly trying to make with that quote was that he was telling Smith he was doing this as a representative of the Trump campaign.
posted by chris24 at 3:17 PM on June 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
The point I was not very clearly trying to make with that quote was that he was telling Smith he was doing this as a representative of the Trump campaign.
Ah, gotcha. You're right. The "in his capacity as a Trump campaign adviser" part would seem to run counter to the idea that Flynn was doing it as a private citizen.
posted by diogenes at 3:21 PM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Ah, gotcha. You're right. The "in his capacity as a Trump campaign adviser" part would seem to run counter to the idea that Flynn was doing it as a private citizen.
posted by diogenes at 3:21 PM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
You guys, John McCain claims (Opinion piece in USA Today) that the Russian threat to Western democracies is "serious." Why, he almost sounds "concerned!"
It won’t be long before Putin takes interest in another American election. The victim may be a Republican. It may be a Democrat. To Putin, it won’t matter as long as he achieves his dark and divisive goals.
We must take our own side in this fight — not as Republicans, not as Democrats, but as Americans. The Senate passed strong new sanctions against Russia this month by an overwhelming 97-2 vote. I hope the House will delay no further, send this bill to the president, and send a message to Vladimir Putin that America will stand strong in defense of our democracy.
None of this, of course, stopped McCain from repeating "but her emails!!!!" during Comey's testimony.
posted by dhens at 3:25 PM on June 29, 2017 [17 favorites]
It won’t be long before Putin takes interest in another American election. The victim may be a Republican. It may be a Democrat. To Putin, it won’t matter as long as he achieves his dark and divisive goals.
We must take our own side in this fight — not as Republicans, not as Democrats, but as Americans. The Senate passed strong new sanctions against Russia this month by an overwhelming 97-2 vote. I hope the House will delay no further, send this bill to the president, and send a message to Vladimir Putin that America will stand strong in defense of our democracy.
None of this, of course, stopped McCain from repeating "but her emails!!!!" during Comey's testimony.
posted by dhens at 3:25 PM on June 29, 2017 [17 favorites]
Never forget that Telling white people the criminal justice system is racist makes them like it more.
The second experiment involved asking white New Yorkers about the stop-and-frisk program — after telling some of them that the New York state prison population was 40 percent black, and the rest that New York City's prison population was 60 percent black. Both groups agreed that stop-and-frisk was punitive. But again, the group that heard the 60-percent statistic was substantially less likely to want to sign a petition to end stop-and-frisk.
Mmm, like much of social science (says the psychology girl), this sounds like a flawed experiment to me. The issue is that most people inherently believe the criminal justice system is fair and people who are convicted are obviously guilty. It's a really, really ingrained belief, supported by a huge percentage of the media most Americans consume. So telling people that 60% of people in prison are black doesn't, to their minds, mean the system is racist. It means black people are more criminal, and therefore stop-and-frisk is probably a good idea.
To get past this implicit bias you'd have to first convince people that one of their core beliefs about their world is wrong. We interpret new data in light of our existing prejudices, after all.
But this is really a derail, so apologies.
posted by threeturtles at 3:31 PM on June 29, 2017 [21 favorites]
The second experiment involved asking white New Yorkers about the stop-and-frisk program — after telling some of them that the New York state prison population was 40 percent black, and the rest that New York City's prison population was 60 percent black. Both groups agreed that stop-and-frisk was punitive. But again, the group that heard the 60-percent statistic was substantially less likely to want to sign a petition to end stop-and-frisk.
Mmm, like much of social science (says the psychology girl), this sounds like a flawed experiment to me. The issue is that most people inherently believe the criminal justice system is fair and people who are convicted are obviously guilty. It's a really, really ingrained belief, supported by a huge percentage of the media most Americans consume. So telling people that 60% of people in prison are black doesn't, to their minds, mean the system is racist. It means black people are more criminal, and therefore stop-and-frisk is probably a good idea.
To get past this implicit bias you'd have to first convince people that one of their core beliefs about their world is wrong. We interpret new data in light of our existing prejudices, after all.
But this is really a derail, so apologies.
posted by threeturtles at 3:31 PM on June 29, 2017 [21 favorites]
Josh Marshall makes an interesting point about the fact that the WSJ interview with Smith was 8 weeks ago. He goes on to say "My point is not that they were slow. It's that there must have been a lot of stuff being worked on over 8 weeks. And not that much of it made it into the piece. There's a lot that either didn't make it in or couldn't get in yet."
That makes sense to me. It's a strange article because we're seeing a fraction of a much larger story that got mostly redacted. That would explain why the lede feels buried. The article probably wasn't supposed to revolve around Smith, but that's what they could run with for now.
posted by diogenes at 3:44 PM on June 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
That makes sense to me. It's a strange article because we're seeing a fraction of a much larger story that got mostly redacted. That would explain why the lede feels buried. The article probably wasn't supposed to revolve around Smith, but that's what they could run with for now.
posted by diogenes at 3:44 PM on June 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
The article probably wasn't supposed to revolve around Smith, but that's what they could run with for now.
And having to change, redact stuff that will come out later also might explain why it came out today vs last Friday when Wittes thought it might.
posted by chris24 at 3:47 PM on June 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
And having to change, redact stuff that will come out later also might explain why it came out today vs last Friday when Wittes thought it might.
posted by chris24 at 3:47 PM on June 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
2016 Republican slogan: LOCK HER UP!
2020 Republican slogan: COLLUSION IS NOT A CRIME!
posted by Justinian at 3:49 PM on June 29, 2017 [28 favorites]
2020 Republican slogan: COLLUSION IS NOT A CRIME!
posted by Justinian at 3:49 PM on June 29, 2017 [28 favorites]
Can I just say that I LOVE that this is in... not the Washington Post, not the New York Times... but the Wall Street Journal? Whose opinion section (and Facebook comments) are almost as Trumpy as Breitbart? Who ran an op ed by Karl Rove today? That Wall Street Journal?
It's the one real newspaper that has any credibility with Trump's fans. And it's the one that published this boom.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:52 PM on June 29, 2017 [24 favorites]
It's the one real newspaper that has any credibility with Trump's fans. And it's the one that published this boom.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:52 PM on June 29, 2017 [24 favorites]
To my reading, it seems plausible that they were in a situation where they were trying to tie Smith more closely to the campaign, because there are always freelancers on a campaign off doing whatever and trying to make themselves sound more important and connected than they are. They interviewed Smith and had him acknowledging his activities and that he knew Flynn, but didn't have any more reporting directly connecting Smith to the campaign, and then the guy died. Eventually, they got Eric York willing to speak on the record to connect Smith to Flynn, which is the link to the Trump campaign. And they got the intelligence report leak. And together, that's more than enough to turn this into a major story.
But ordinarily, you'd go back and talk to Smith about this stuff some more, pin him down on what the other sources are saying about him, and they couldn't do that here. That's why the story has to mention Smith's death, not because they're implying anything nefarious, but to explain why they're making claims about Smith's activities without a further response from him.
posted by zachlipton at 3:58 PM on June 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
But ordinarily, you'd go back and talk to Smith about this stuff some more, pin him down on what the other sources are saying about him, and they couldn't do that here. That's why the story has to mention Smith's death, not because they're implying anything nefarious, but to explain why they're making claims about Smith's activities without a further response from him.
posted by zachlipton at 3:58 PM on June 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
And they got the intelligence report leak.
That's what I think they got a lot more of that we're not seeing.
posted by diogenes at 4:03 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
That's what I think they got a lot more of that we're not seeing.
posted by diogenes at 4:03 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Say the WSJ got intelligence leaks about stuff Flynn did. They would have to run it by the entities investigating Flynn, right? And if it's part of an open investigation, they can't publish it, right?
(Those are real questions. I don't know the answers.)
That would explain why the one detail about hackers trying to reach Flynn through an intermediary made it in. You could talk about that because it isn't something Flynn did.
posted by diogenes at 4:11 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
(Those are real questions. I don't know the answers.)
That would explain why the one detail about hackers trying to reach Flynn through an intermediary made it in. You could talk about that because it isn't something Flynn did.
posted by diogenes at 4:11 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
There's nothing, to my knowledge, that would prohibit the WSJ from publishing whatever they obtain about an open investigation. Pretty much everything leaked here pertains to an open investigation.
posted by zachlipton at 4:14 PM on June 29, 2017
posted by zachlipton at 4:14 PM on June 29, 2017
They would have to run it by the entities investigating Flynn, right? And if it's part of an open investigation, they can't publish it, right?
They can publish anything they want to publish.
posted by Justinian at 4:15 PM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
They can publish anything they want to publish.
posted by Justinian at 4:15 PM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
There's nothing, to my knowledge, that would prohibit the WSJ from publishing whatever they obtain about an open investigation.
Heh, I've been watching too much Senate testimony. I was starting to think "open investigation" was like a magic force field that prevented you from talking about stuff.
posted by diogenes at 4:19 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Heh, I've been watching too much Senate testimony. I was starting to think "open investigation" was like a magic force field that prevented you from talking about stuff.
posted by diogenes at 4:19 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Travel ban update:
Neal Katyal tweeted:
Trump Admin is planning on violating the Supreme Ct orders in the Travel and refugee bans. Proud to stand w [HI] AG Chin, going into Ct rt now.
posted by melissasaurus at 4:20 PM on June 29, 2017 [22 favorites]
Neal Katyal tweeted:
Trump Admin is planning on violating the Supreme Ct orders in the Travel and refugee bans. Proud to stand w [HI] AG Chin, going into Ct rt now.
posted by melissasaurus at 4:20 PM on June 29, 2017 [22 favorites]
Trump Admin is planning on violating the Supreme Ct orders in the Travel and refugee bans
Isn't that like a constitutional crises or something?
posted by diogenes at 4:22 PM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Isn't that like a constitutional crises or something?
posted by diogenes at 4:22 PM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
More of a question about how to interpret the Supreme Court's order. The government has interpreted it quite narrowly, saying that the grandparents or fiance of a US person don't have close enough ties to the US to be covered under the order. Other people think think that's absurd. Hence, court.
posted by zachlipton at 4:25 PM on June 29, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 4:25 PM on June 29, 2017 [17 favorites]
More info from Dan Levine of Reuters [tweet]:
Breaking: State of Hawaii asks judge in Honolulu to clarify scotus travel ban ruling, says Trump admin about to break the court injunction
So, I think they're saying that the admin's guidance defining family so narrowly is in violation of the order allowing "bona fide relationship."
posted by melissasaurus at 4:27 PM on June 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
Breaking: State of Hawaii asks judge in Honolulu to clarify scotus travel ban ruling, says Trump admin about to break the court injunction
So, I think they're saying that the admin's guidance defining family so narrowly is in violation of the order allowing "bona fide relationship."
posted by melissasaurus at 4:27 PM on June 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
[Virginia] Governor McAuliffe Statement on Request from Trump Elections Commission
RICHMOND – Governor Terry McAuliffe released the following statement in response to a letter directed to Virginia and other states from the Presidential Advisory Commission on Election Integrity:posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:35 PM on June 29, 2017 [138 favorites]“Today the Commonwealth and the other 49 states received a lengthy request from Kris Kobach, the Vice Chair of the Presidential Advisory Commission on Election Integrity, requesting a list of all registered Virginia voters, the last four digits of their social security numbers, their addresses, date of birth, political affiliation, and their voting history. The Vice Chair’s letter also contained a list of vague inquiries about the election policies and laws of the Commonwealth.
“I have no intention of honoring this request. Virginia conducts fair, honest, and democratic elections, and there is no evidence of significant voter fraud in Virginia. This entire commission is based on the specious and false notion that there was widespread voter fraud last November. At best this commission was set up as a pretext to validate Donald Trump’s alternative election facts, and at worst is a tool to commit large-scale voter suppression.
“The only irregularity in the 2016 presidential election centered around Russian tampering, a finding that has been confirmed by 17 of our intelligence agencies and sworn testimony delivered to several congressional committees. In 131 days Virginia’s Department of Elections will again conduct a statewide election for the offices of Governor, Lieutenant Governor, and Attorney General, as well as 100 House of Delegates races and numerous other positions. I’m not going to divert resources that could potentially compromise that important work to enable this politically motivated and silly posturing.”
So, I think they're saying that the admin's guidance defining family so narrowly is in violation of the order allowing "bona fide relationship."
The only people who could possibly have read "bona fide relationship" and not immediately know it was going to result in more court fighting was the Supreme Court justice who wrote it and then proofread it. And more likely they knew perfectly well they were handing the Trump administration some rope. Some of them because they think the administration should be able to hang whoever they want (see: Thomas, Alito, and Gorsuch saying they would have let the whole thing go through) and the others for Trump et all to hang themselves with.
posted by phearlez at 4:39 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
The only people who could possibly have read "bona fide relationship" and not immediately know it was going to result in more court fighting was the Supreme Court justice who wrote it and then proofread it. And more likely they knew perfectly well they were handing the Trump administration some rope. Some of them because they think the administration should be able to hang whoever they want (see: Thomas, Alito, and Gorsuch saying they would have let the whole thing go through) and the others for Trump et all to hang themselves with.
posted by phearlez at 4:39 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Christ, what an ass hole.
posted by Brak at 4:41 PM on June 29, 2017
But yeah, other than my umpteenth episode of intense visceral hatred for this administration, phearlez basically has it.
posted by Brak at 4:45 PM on June 29, 2017
posted by Brak at 4:45 PM on June 29, 2017
I just tweeted my Secretary of State (who follows me!) that they should carefully weigh possible non-compliance. They had already said they'd comply, but maybe they shouldn't? VA link was useful, thanks JW.
posted by jessamyn at 4:51 PM on June 29, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by jessamyn at 4:51 PM on June 29, 2017 [20 favorites]
Here's a copy of that emergency motion out of Hawaii on the travel ban. They want the court to order the government to accept a broader range of relationships (grandparents, fiancees, aunts, uncles, in-laws, etc...), allow refugees who already have bona fide relationships with US agencies and sponsors, and not to deny visas to people in cases where they are "unsure" if a sufficient connection to the US exists. The plaintiffs contend this violates the Supreme Court's order.
posted by zachlipton at 5:02 PM on June 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 5:02 PM on June 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
The State Department has now updated its guidance to include fiances. (Via Lawrence Hurley; Reuters)
posted by melissasaurus at 5:04 PM on June 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 5:04 PM on June 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
Ugh. I just checked my Secretary of State's website (Kemp, GA) for any response to Trump's idiotic commission, and what do I find two days ago but a "Statement...regarding completion of OIG investigation into DHS scans" ranting about how the DHS last year under Obama's administration "targeted" Georgia's voter registration database IP addresses and that the DHS "attempted to explain the situation away". Fortunately, the big brave Trump administration investigated for Georgia, finding--surprise--that "DHS did not knowingly attempt to breach Georgia's firewall or hack our systems":
Per Kemp: “While I am disappointed that it took a new administration to investigate this highly important incident, I am pleased to learn this information and relieved that our federal government is not trying to interfere with elections in our state or others involved in this situation. I am grateful for President Trump’s leadership on this matter, and we appreciate Secretary Kelly’s and the Inspector General’s efforts. With the investigation now complete, we will continue to work diligently to ensure that elections in Georgia remain secure, accessible, and fair.”
It never occurred to me the Secretary of State of Georgia was a lunatic until now. Knowing's better than not, I suppose.
posted by Room 101 at 5:08 PM on June 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
Per Kemp: “While I am disappointed that it took a new administration to investigate this highly important incident, I am pleased to learn this information and relieved that our federal government is not trying to interfere with elections in our state or others involved in this situation. I am grateful for President Trump’s leadership on this matter, and we appreciate Secretary Kelly’s and the Inspector General’s efforts. With the investigation now complete, we will continue to work diligently to ensure that elections in Georgia remain secure, accessible, and fair.”
It never occurred to me the Secretary of State of Georgia was a lunatic until now. Knowing's better than not, I suppose.
posted by Room 101 at 5:08 PM on June 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
Fuck yeah, McAuliffe. I don't have my hopes up but I'd like to see as many states as possible tell Kobach to pound sand.
posted by azpenguin at 5:08 PM on June 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by azpenguin at 5:08 PM on June 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
Josh Delk, The Hill: Seventy-one percent of voters say that President Trump’s tweets are hurting his agenda, according to a new Fox News [!!] poll.
The poll was conducted Sunday through Tuesday, before Trump tweeted Thursday attacking the hosts of MSNBC’s “Morning Joe,” Joe Scarborough and Mika Brzezinski.
According to the poll, 87 percent of Democrats and 75 percent of Independents believe Trump’s tweets are hurting his agenda, while 53 percent of Republicans [eyebrow raise] agreed.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:31 PM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
The poll was conducted Sunday through Tuesday, before Trump tweeted Thursday attacking the hosts of MSNBC’s “Morning Joe,” Joe Scarborough and Mika Brzezinski.
According to the poll, 87 percent of Democrats and 75 percent of Independents believe Trump’s tweets are hurting his agenda, while 53 percent of Republicans [eyebrow raise] agreed.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:31 PM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Scarborough and Brzezinski were supposed to be off tomorrow but have reportedly decided to be on-air in order to respond to Trump's tantrum. I expect it will be ugly.
posted by Justinian at 5:35 PM on June 29, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 5:35 PM on June 29, 2017 [18 favorites]
If Flynn hasn't flipped yet this could flip him.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:37 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 5:37 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
According to the poll, 87 percent of Democrats and 75 percent of Independents believe Trump’s tweets are hurting his agenda, while 53 percent of Republicans [eyebrow raise] agreed.
The difference is that the Republicans agree with his agenda in the first place, whereas, for a Dem, hurting his agenda is not actually a bad thing!
In my mind he's an asshole with an asshole's agenda, ergo, his tweets are part and parcel of his agenda. I'm not sure I could even take that poll question seriously.
posted by OHenryPacey at 5:47 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
The difference is that the Republicans agree with his agenda in the first place, whereas, for a Dem, hurting his agenda is not actually a bad thing!
In my mind he's an asshole with an asshole's agenda, ergo, his tweets are part and parcel of his agenda. I'm not sure I could even take that poll question seriously.
posted by OHenryPacey at 5:47 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Jeffrey Lord, shitpile excuse for a human being, was just raked over the coals by Cooper, Maggie Haberman, and... one of the CNN political analysts whose name escapes me... and it was glorious. Among other things, Haberman trapped him and made him look like fool when he kept saying "the president shouldn't have tweeted it, but..." and then went on to make false equivalences and such. She repeatedly asked him "Why shouldn't the president have tweeted it?" and he kept trying to make more equivalences without answering, and she would just respond with "but why?", "why?", "but why?.
He simply would not and could not finish the sentence, which is that he shouldn't have tweeted it because it was morally wrong and disgusting. And you could see in his eyes that he knew he was trapped.
posted by Justinian at 5:47 PM on June 29, 2017 [30 favorites]
He simply would not and could not finish the sentence, which is that he shouldn't have tweeted it because it was morally wrong and disgusting. And you could see in his eyes that he knew he was trapped.
posted by Justinian at 5:47 PM on June 29, 2017 [30 favorites]
If Flynn hasn't flipped yet this could flip him.
Not many Americans seem to get the old polonium breakfast, but you have to figure heavier top of the list if he does, and knows that.
posted by Artw at 5:50 PM on June 29, 2017
Not many Americans seem to get the old polonium breakfast, but you have to figure heavier top of the list if he does, and knows that.
posted by Artw at 5:50 PM on June 29, 2017
In the '90s, Smith was connected to the Arkansas Project.
"Connected" = he spent $80,000 on private detectives & to subsidize American Spectator reporters in a hunt for the black baby that Clinton was rumored to have fathered.
And the press mocked Hillary for saying there was a vast right-wing conspiracy out to get her and her husband.
posted by longdaysjourney at 5:54 PM on June 29, 2017 [47 favorites]
"Connected" = he spent $80,000 on private detectives & to subsidize American Spectator reporters in a hunt for the black baby that Clinton was rumored to have fathered.
And the press mocked Hillary for saying there was a vast right-wing conspiracy out to get her and her husband.
posted by longdaysjourney at 5:54 PM on June 29, 2017 [47 favorites]
Second, Mika tweeted a box of cheerios that said Made for Small Hands, in case you're not willing to go to Twitter.
I have work connections to General Mills. The reaction is mixed amusement and terror that they'll draw the Eye of Trumpon.
posted by nathan_teske at 5:59 PM on June 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
I have work connections to General Mills. The reaction is mixed amusement and terror that they'll draw the Eye of Trumpon.
posted by nathan_teske at 5:59 PM on June 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
I don't want him to stop tweeting. I want all his mean, petty, and ignorant obsessiveness to be very very visible.
Me too, and those Republicans who are now publicly calling for him to shut up are how I know we're right.
posted by Rykey at 6:03 PM on June 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
Me too, and those Republicans who are now publicly calling for him to shut up are how I know we're right.
posted by Rykey at 6:03 PM on June 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
That's why the story has to mention Smith's death, not because they're implying anything nefarious, but to explain why they're making claims about Smith's activities without a further response from him.
So would you say Smith's death was . . . a coincidence?!
*dramaticgroundhog.gif*
He was heavily involved with a Russian consortium, watch
posted by petebest at 6:07 PM on June 29, 2017
So would you say Smith's death was . . . a coincidence?!
*dramaticgroundhog.gif*
He was heavily involved with a Russian consortium, watch
posted by petebest at 6:07 PM on June 29, 2017
Jeffrey "No One Ever Heard of Me Before" Lord has had a trapped look in his eyes since at least last summer. I keep expecting him to cry out: "Who am I am what am I doing here?"
Dr Becket has been leaping for almost twenty years. Has he ever looked at himself in the camera lens and gone "Oh boy..."
posted by Talez at 6:12 PM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Dr Becket has been leaping for almost twenty years. Has he ever looked at himself in the camera lens and gone "Oh boy..."
posted by Talez at 6:12 PM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
I seriously do not understand what value JLord is supposed to add to these panel discussions.
Occam says it's because he doesn't ever end the story.
posted by rhizome at 6:18 PM on June 29, 2017
Occam says it's because he doesn't ever end the story.
posted by rhizome at 6:18 PM on June 29, 2017
TFW Ben Wittes "tick tick tick" is actually a part of your life.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:21 PM on June 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by octobersurprise at 6:21 PM on June 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
Can someone explain what is going on with the House Appropriations Committee panel agreeing to Barbara Lee's ammendment? Please.
posted by rdr at 6:39 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by rdr at 6:39 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Meanwhile, Trump continues to pursue an appeasement agenda with Putin, the Guardian reports:
Always eager to impress Putin, Trump had previously expressed the desire for a full bilateral meeting between them at next week's G20 summit, but his staff seems to have pulled him back from that. Earlier today, National Security Advisor H.R. McMaster told reporters, "There's no specific agenda. It's whatever the President wants to talk about." Then again, he also claimed, "Our relationship with Russia is no different than any other country."
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:39 PM on June 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
Donald Trump has told White House aides to come up with possible concessions to offer as bargaining chips in his planned meeting next week with Vladimir Putin, according to two former officials familiar with the preparations.That last sentence is classic journalistic understatement. Trump's unilateral accommodation of Russia makes no sense—except of course if one were to factor in potential kompromat the Kremlin might just be holding over him.
National security council staff have been tasked with proposing “deliverables” for the first Trump-Putin encounter, including the return of two diplomatic compounds Russians were ordered to vacate by the Obama administration in response to Moscow’s interference in the 2016 election, the former officials said. It is not clear what Putin would be asked to give in return.
Always eager to impress Putin, Trump had previously expressed the desire for a full bilateral meeting between them at next week's G20 summit, but his staff seems to have pulled him back from that. Earlier today, National Security Advisor H.R. McMaster told reporters, "There's no specific agenda. It's whatever the President wants to talk about." Then again, he also claimed, "Our relationship with Russia is no different than any other country."
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:39 PM on June 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
All of that "Since when is collusion a crime?" special pleading that started ramping up a couple days ago is starting to seem pretty relevant. Prescient, even.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 6:41 PM on June 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Barack Spinoza at 6:41 PM on June 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
A google search on "Peter W. Smith" turned up this December 9, 2016 NYTimes article:
Russian Hackers Acted to Aid Trump in Election, U.S. Says
Russian Hackers Acted to Aid Trump in Election, U.S. Says
posted by pjenks at 6:48 PM on June 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
American intelligence agencies have concluded with “high confidence” that Russia acted covertly in the latter stages of the presidential campaign to harm Hillary Clinton’s chances and promote Donald J. Trump, according to senior administration officials.
They based that conclusion, in part, on another finding — which they say was also reached with high confidence — that the Russians hacked the Republican National Committee’s computer systems in addition to their attacks on Democratic organizations, but did not release whatever information they gleaned from the Republican networks.
...
Representative Michael McCaul... said on CNN in September that the RNC had been hacked by Russia, but then quickly withdrew the claim... Minutes later, the R.N.C. issued a statement denying that it had been hacked. Mr. McCaul subsequently said that he had misspoken, but that it was true that “Republican political operatives” had been the target of Russian hacking.
...
Mr. McCaul may have had in mind a collection of more than 200 emails of Republican officials and activists that appeared this year on the website DCLeaks.com. That website got far more attention for the many Democratic Party documents it posted... Among those whose emails were posted was Peter W. Smith, who runs a venture capital firm in Chicago and has long been active in “opposition research” for the Republican Party. He said he was unaware that his emails had been hacked until he was called by a reporter on Thursday.
He said he believes that his material came from a hack of the Illinois Republican Party.
“I’m not upset at all,” he said. “I try in my communications, quite frankly, not to say anything that would be embarrassing if made public.”
A couple of items from the Smith article:
Mr. Smith and one of his associates said they had a line of communication with Mr. Flynn and his consulting company.
In one Smith reviewed by the Journal, intended to entice outside experts to join his work, he offered to make introductions to Mr. Flynn’s son, Michael G. Flynn, who worked as chief of staff in his father’s company. Mr. Smith’s email mentioned the son among a small number of other people he said were helping.
I know you only had a couple of weeks to work on the article, but "In one Smith reviewed by the Journal, intended to entice outside experts . . . " that's terrible. And since when do private companies have "chief(s) of staff"? Say gopher. Keep it 100.
The senior Mr. Flynn was fired as national-security adviser in February . . .
A mere 16 months ago. In a land far, far away.
Mr. Smith’s views on Russian hacking were complex. While he said he believed Russians were likely among those who tried to steal Mrs. Clinton’s emails, he dismissed intelligence agencies’ conclusion that Russia’s government meddled in the election to discredit Mrs. Clinton and to help Mr. Trump.
"Complex" views? No, that's just regular:
RICK JAMES: I got more sense than to go jumping on someone's couch like that. . . Yeah I remember jumping on his couch. He's rich he can buy another.
"Contrary". "Problematical". "Dickish". But not complex.
Mr. Smith was himself once a hacking victim. Emails he wrote about the 2015 contest to fill former House Speaker John Boehner’s seat were stolen from the Illinois Republican Party and then made public, in a campaign U.S. intelligence officials attributed to Russian actors. Mr. Smith didn’t dispute that Russia might have been to blame. He said he was unconcerned about his messages being exposed.
This must have been done during the writers' strike.
posted by petebest at 6:51 PM on June 29, 2017
Mr. Smith and one of his associates said they had a line of communication with Mr. Flynn and his consulting company.
In one Smith reviewed by the Journal, intended to entice outside experts to join his work, he offered to make introductions to Mr. Flynn’s son, Michael G. Flynn, who worked as chief of staff in his father’s company. Mr. Smith’s email mentioned the son among a small number of other people he said were helping.
I know you only had a couple of weeks to work on the article, but "In one Smith reviewed by the Journal, intended to entice outside experts . . . " that's terrible. And since when do private companies have "chief(s) of staff"? Say gopher. Keep it 100.
The senior Mr. Flynn was fired as national-security adviser in February . . .
A mere 16 months ago. In a land far, far away.
Mr. Smith’s views on Russian hacking were complex. While he said he believed Russians were likely among those who tried to steal Mrs. Clinton’s emails, he dismissed intelligence agencies’ conclusion that Russia’s government meddled in the election to discredit Mrs. Clinton and to help Mr. Trump.
"Complex" views? No, that's just regular:
RICK JAMES: I got more sense than to go jumping on someone's couch like that. . . Yeah I remember jumping on his couch. He's rich he can buy another.
"Contrary". "Problematical". "Dickish". But not complex.
Mr. Smith was himself once a hacking victim. Emails he wrote about the 2015 contest to fill former House Speaker John Boehner’s seat were stolen from the Illinois Republican Party and then made public, in a campaign U.S. intelligence officials attributed to Russian actors. Mr. Smith didn’t dispute that Russia might have been to blame. He said he was unconcerned about his messages being exposed.
This must have been done during the writers' strike.
posted by petebest at 6:51 PM on June 29, 2017
Aaron Blake, WaPo: Sarah Huckabee Sanders says Trump has never ‘promoted or encouraged violence.’ She is very wrong.
Many examples are given.
Also, I propose that instead of "ShS," her short reference here should be SHuckS.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:59 PM on June 29, 2017 [42 favorites]
When a reporter at Thursday's news briefing noted that just two weeks ago, after the shooting at a Republican congressional baseball practice, the political world talked of cooling the rhetoric to avoid such violence, Sanders was quick to respond: "The president in no way, form or fashion has ever promoted or encouraged violence. If anything, quite the contrary."
This is laughable.
Many examples are given.
Also, I propose that instead of "ShS," her short reference here should be SHuckS.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:59 PM on June 29, 2017 [42 favorites]
SHuckabeeS if you're nasty.
posted by petebest at 7:01 PM on June 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by petebest at 7:01 PM on June 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
For what it's worth today's boom prompted me to significantly re-write the "Is there any evidence of collusion?" section of my site, 2016 Active Measures.
The first sentence of the answer had been "It depends on what you mean by 'collusion.'"
Now it's just "Yes."
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:04 PM on June 29, 2017 [39 favorites]
The first sentence of the answer had been "It depends on what you mean by 'collusion.'"
Now it's just "Yes."
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:04 PM on June 29, 2017 [39 favorites]
What did he die of? High velocity lead poisoning?
nonono of course not. He accidentally, tragically cut his own head off whilst shaving.
posted by um at 7:08 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
nonono of course not. He accidentally, tragically cut his own head off whilst shaving.
posted by um at 7:08 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Sanders was quick to respond: "The president in no way, form or fashion has ever promoted or encouraged violence. If anything, quite the contrary."
This is laughable.
I don't think is, actually. It's insidious as hell, aimed at know-nothings who would sooner poop in their pants than watch anything so eggheaded as a press conference. But it's effective.
Trump's people know they just need get a voice opposing the "Trump is a goddamn liar" narrative, despite the mountain of evidence supporting it, into the soundbites, so when their favorite news outlet runs the story it comes through like this:
"The liberals are claiming President Trump said horrible things yesterday, but when have they ever known their ass from their elbow?
"The President's staff however, struck right back, telling those America-haters where to stick it..."
(Cut to SHS: "The president in no way, form or fashion has ever promoted or encouraged violence. If anything, quite the contrary.")
Joe Sixpack at home: "Huh, I knew it."
posted by Rykey at 7:13 PM on June 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
This is laughable.
I don't think is, actually. It's insidious as hell, aimed at know-nothings who would sooner poop in their pants than watch anything so eggheaded as a press conference. But it's effective.
Trump's people know they just need get a voice opposing the "Trump is a goddamn liar" narrative, despite the mountain of evidence supporting it, into the soundbites, so when their favorite news outlet runs the story it comes through like this:
"The liberals are claiming President Trump said horrible things yesterday, but when have they ever known their ass from their elbow?
"The President's staff however, struck right back, telling those America-haters where to stick it..."
(Cut to SHS: "The president in no way, form or fashion has ever promoted or encouraged violence. If anything, quite the contrary.")
Joe Sixpack at home: "Huh, I knew it."
posted by Rykey at 7:13 PM on June 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
Can someone explain what is going on with the House Appropriations Committee panel agreeing to Barbara Lee's ammendment? Please.
This will give you an idea of how quickly the amendment will be killed: Ryan: Effort to Repeal Military-Force Measure a 'Mistake' and the Post article: House spending bill targets military authorization in rebuke to Trump on Syria, ISIS. Talk is that the amendment is likely to get stripped out by the Rules Committee, but members are not at all happy about the idea that Trump considers the AUMF to extend as far as strikes against Assad's government.
posted by zachlipton at 7:14 PM on June 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
This will give you an idea of how quickly the amendment will be killed: Ryan: Effort to Repeal Military-Force Measure a 'Mistake' and the Post article: House spending bill targets military authorization in rebuke to Trump on Syria, ISIS. Talk is that the amendment is likely to get stripped out by the Rules Committee, but members are not at all happy about the idea that Trump considers the AUMF to extend as far as strikes against Assad's government.
posted by zachlipton at 7:14 PM on June 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
Sanders was quick to respond: "The president in no way, form or fashion has ever promoted or encouraged violence. If anything, quite the contrary."
Seeing the name "Sanders" in isolation attached to such behavior is a disorienting experience let me tell you
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:44 PM on June 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
Seeing the name "Sanders" in isolation attached to such behavior is a disorienting experience let me tell you
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:44 PM on June 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
Is ShS pronounced "shoes" or "scheisse"?
posted by ctmf at 7:49 PM on June 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by ctmf at 7:49 PM on June 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
I 😞 Huckabees
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:50 PM on June 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:50 PM on June 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
Rachael Bade and Burgess Everett, Politico: Republicans frustrated as their to-do list grows
During an emergency White House meeting with Senate Republicans on Tuesday, Sen. Tom Cotton felt compelled to make a last-ditch attempt to salvage the stalled Obamacare replacement.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:51 PM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
The Arkansas Republican said that one year ago, nearly everyone in the room would have supported the Republican health care bill. Now that Republicans control all of Washington, they’re bailing, he lectured.
“You’re too weak to do what you should do,” Cotton told his colleagues, according to sources familiar with the exchange.
The Arkansas Republican said that one year ago, nearly everyone in the room would have supported the Republican health care bill... [because it would have no possibility of becoming law and they would not have to take responsibility for the disastrous consequences because there would be no consequences. Because Middle School Model Congress is easier than governing.]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:54 PM on June 29, 2017 [55 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:54 PM on June 29, 2017 [55 favorites]
Josh Marshall, Talking Points Memo: Blood and Ruin
Whether it is the ‘disgusting-ness’ of the intimate acts of women’s bodies – menstruation, a woman urinating – or this more general shame and humiliation of being seen bleeding or injured it comes back to the same thing: Trump’s focus on humiliation, the shame of being among the dominated as opposed to those doing the dominating. For Trump, the entire economy of human relations is reduced to this dichotomy. It is a snapshot of the brutal and abusive whirlwind the whole country is caught up in.
yeah but it's only five months in, let's give him a chance
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:04 PM on June 29, 2017 [26 favorites]
Whether it is the ‘disgusting-ness’ of the intimate acts of women’s bodies – menstruation, a woman urinating – or this more general shame and humiliation of being seen bleeding or injured it comes back to the same thing: Trump’s focus on humiliation, the shame of being among the dominated as opposed to those doing the dominating. For Trump, the entire economy of human relations is reduced to this dichotomy. It is a snapshot of the brutal and abusive whirlwind the whole country is caught up in.
yeah but it's only five months in, let's give him a chance
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:04 PM on June 29, 2017 [26 favorites]
This might come out super wrong but I haven't heard anyone else saying this:
The investigation into the Trump-Russia vortex of criminality is incredibly important, yes. It is the tip of the spear that can potentially take Trump out of office. But it will not do it by itself. The criminal investigation has absolutely nothing to do with impeachment; impeachment happens when there is political will for it to happen. No more, no less.
Lots of people have said that. What they haven't said is: We can build the political will for impeachment. In fact, that's the only thing we citizens can do; and only we citizens can do it.
The FBI can't make political waves - they're doing as much as they can leaking juicy tidbits to keep up interest. To do anything more would compromise the investigation. We citizens can't affect the investigation - but we can make political waves. One big one, hopefully.
There's a sort of complacency some of us had during Obama's presidency, where we had the sense that there were sensible grown-ups in charge and we could trust them to take care of the problem. I could be wrong but I'm sensing a little of that complacency again. We can trust Mueller to do his job, I think. But we can't trust him to take care of the problem because that's just not within his power.
The first step to building the political will is to talk about impeachment a lot. Make a list of all the reasons why it should happen and start trying to convince people. Talk about it at town halls. Make signs. Whip up rallies. Talk to staffers, convince them to talk about it too. Get the Pod Save America guys to talk about it. Stand outside your congressman's office with a hundred people and a megaphone. The ultimate goal is, like, Jon Oliver doing an explainer on "high crimes and misdemeanors". Or people on CNN debating what's impeachable or not. We need this idea to get into the public consciousness.
It won't pay off until we have enough evidence of wrongdoing; but we need to have the groundwork in place when we get to that point.
Remember how the House Republicans nearly choked on healthcare after they went home and had to face their constituents? It seems impossible to sway them on Trump, but they all fucking hate him. If there are crowds of people outside their office clamoring for impeachment, they will think twice. Or maybe they won't. Maybe it won't work. But this is the only way that might work.
On the flipside, if there's no one who wants Trump impeached ... I don't know if the Democrats would go through with it.
Now I'd like to share a story I find somewhat embarrassing.
Last week I called the office of my representative, notoriously useless Republican Leonard Lance (NJ-7). I got a real human staffer on the phone. I stammered a whole lot. I said: "In the 2016 election I volunteered a whole lot of hours for the Democratic campaign opposing yours. I made a lot of phone calls. But Leonard Lance earned my goodwill by voting against the healthcare bill. Now, I think Trump should be impeached. I think he is utterly unfit for the job, and I think that even just the evidence we already have is enough to make a case for impeachment. I feel really strongly about this. I want my representative to, you know, represent me in this. What I want to tell you guys is, if Leonard Lance takes a stand against Donald Trump, and he makes a call for impeachment, I won't campaign against him. I'll stay home. He might just be the only Republican I ever vote for."
I don't expect my ultimatum to actually mean anything to him. I am a nobody. I do not have a following or an organization. Giving that ultimatum didn't make me feel good, either; it just made me feel powerless. But maybe by sharing it here this ultimatum will finally serve some useful purpose by making this topic stick in your head.
The investigation is the tip of the spear, but we have to drive it in.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 8:14 PM on June 29, 2017 [60 favorites]
The investigation into the Trump-Russia vortex of criminality is incredibly important, yes. It is the tip of the spear that can potentially take Trump out of office. But it will not do it by itself. The criminal investigation has absolutely nothing to do with impeachment; impeachment happens when there is political will for it to happen. No more, no less.
Lots of people have said that. What they haven't said is: We can build the political will for impeachment. In fact, that's the only thing we citizens can do; and only we citizens can do it.
The FBI can't make political waves - they're doing as much as they can leaking juicy tidbits to keep up interest. To do anything more would compromise the investigation. We citizens can't affect the investigation - but we can make political waves. One big one, hopefully.
There's a sort of complacency some of us had during Obama's presidency, where we had the sense that there were sensible grown-ups in charge and we could trust them to take care of the problem. I could be wrong but I'm sensing a little of that complacency again. We can trust Mueller to do his job, I think. But we can't trust him to take care of the problem because that's just not within his power.
The first step to building the political will is to talk about impeachment a lot. Make a list of all the reasons why it should happen and start trying to convince people. Talk about it at town halls. Make signs. Whip up rallies. Talk to staffers, convince them to talk about it too. Get the Pod Save America guys to talk about it. Stand outside your congressman's office with a hundred people and a megaphone. The ultimate goal is, like, Jon Oliver doing an explainer on "high crimes and misdemeanors". Or people on CNN debating what's impeachable or not. We need this idea to get into the public consciousness.
It won't pay off until we have enough evidence of wrongdoing; but we need to have the groundwork in place when we get to that point.
Remember how the House Republicans nearly choked on healthcare after they went home and had to face their constituents? It seems impossible to sway them on Trump, but they all fucking hate him. If there are crowds of people outside their office clamoring for impeachment, they will think twice. Or maybe they won't. Maybe it won't work. But this is the only way that might work.
On the flipside, if there's no one who wants Trump impeached ... I don't know if the Democrats would go through with it.
Now I'd like to share a story I find somewhat embarrassing.
Last week I called the office of my representative, notoriously useless Republican Leonard Lance (NJ-7). I got a real human staffer on the phone. I stammered a whole lot. I said: "In the 2016 election I volunteered a whole lot of hours for the Democratic campaign opposing yours. I made a lot of phone calls. But Leonard Lance earned my goodwill by voting against the healthcare bill. Now, I think Trump should be impeached. I think he is utterly unfit for the job, and I think that even just the evidence we already have is enough to make a case for impeachment. I feel really strongly about this. I want my representative to, you know, represent me in this. What I want to tell you guys is, if Leonard Lance takes a stand against Donald Trump, and he makes a call for impeachment, I won't campaign against him. I'll stay home. He might just be the only Republican I ever vote for."
I don't expect my ultimatum to actually mean anything to him. I am a nobody. I do not have a following or an organization. Giving that ultimatum didn't make me feel good, either; it just made me feel powerless. But maybe by sharing it here this ultimatum will finally serve some useful purpose by making this topic stick in your head.
The investigation is the tip of the spear, but we have to drive it in.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 8:14 PM on June 29, 2017 [60 favorites]
Trump’s focus on humiliation, the shame of being among the dominated as opposed to those doing the dominating.
And yet total subspace when the Russian masters are around.
posted by ctmf at 8:16 PM on June 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
And yet total subspace when the Russian masters are around.
posted by ctmf at 8:16 PM on June 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94: "The Arkansas Republican said that one year ago, nearly everyone in the room would have supported the Republican health care bill... [because it would have no possibility of becoming law and they would not have to take responsibility for the disastrous consequences because there would be no consequences."
If I recall correctly, Tom Cotton is one of those Tea Party true believer-type Republicans. Which, if that is the case, means that there's a pretty good chance that he literally has no idea about that parenthetical clause (i.e.: the only reason the previous congresses could vote however they wanted on Obamacare was because they knew that Obama would veto anything that got to his desk).
posted by mhum at 8:18 PM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
If I recall correctly, Tom Cotton is one of those Tea Party true believer-type Republicans. Which, if that is the case, means that there's a pretty good chance that he literally has no idea about that parenthetical clause (i.e.: the only reason the previous congresses could vote however they wanted on Obamacare was because they knew that Obama would veto anything that got to his desk).
posted by mhum at 8:18 PM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
And yet total subspace when the Russian masters are around.
From the Guardian:
posted by Justinian at 8:33 PM on June 29, 2017 [28 favorites]
From the Guardian:
Donald Trump has told White House aides to come up with possible concessions to offer as bargaining chips in his planned meeting next week with Vladimir Putin, according to two former officials familiar with the preparations.Note the last line. Not "stuff we can trade with Russia". Just gifts. For his mancrush, daddy Putin.
National security council staff have been tasked with proposing “deliverables” for the first Trump-Putin encounter, including the return of two diplomatic compounds Russians were ordered to vacate by the Obama administration in response to Moscow’s interference in the 2016 election, the former officials said. It is not clear what Putin would be asked to give in return.
posted by Justinian at 8:33 PM on June 29, 2017 [28 favorites]
Cotton is garbage, yes, and is about as anti-moral as they come, but he is far from stupid or ignorant. You don't rise up from the holler to Harvard like he did if you're an idiot. He plays a pretty good aw-shucks Gomer on TV, and he would starve a grandmother to further his party or presidential ambitions, but a dummy he is not.
posted by middleclasstool at 8:34 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by middleclasstool at 8:34 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
The New York Times on the Morning Joe tweets:
“My first reaction was that this just has to stop, and I was disheartened because I had hoped the personal, ad hominem attacks had been left behind, that we were past that,” Senator Susan Collins said in an interview.
Move over Obama, we have a new political champion for The Audacity of Hope
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:36 PM on June 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
“My first reaction was that this just has to stop, and I was disheartened because I had hoped the personal, ad hominem attacks had been left behind, that we were past that,” Senator Susan Collins said in an interview.
Move over Obama, we have a new political champion for The Audacity of Hope
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:36 PM on June 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
“I don’t think it directly affects the negotiation on the health care bill, but it is undignified — it’s beneath a president of the United States and just so contrary to the way we expect a president to act,” [Senator Susan Collins (R-ME)] said. “People may say things during a campaign, but it’s different when you become a public servant. I don’t see it as undermining his ability to negotiate legislation, necessarily, but I see it as embarrassing to our country.”
Let it be written: having an ongoing pattern of undignified and disheartening behavior contrary to how we expect a president to act does not undermine a person's ability to negotiate with Senator Susan Collins.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:40 PM on June 29, 2017 [24 favorites]
Let it be written: having an ongoing pattern of undignified and disheartening behavior contrary to how we expect a president to act does not undermine a person's ability to negotiate with Senator Susan Collins.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:40 PM on June 29, 2017 [24 favorites]
It is not clear what Putin would be asked to give in return.
ok here's an idea
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:46 PM on June 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
ok here's an idea
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:46 PM on June 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
The opposite of bees are fireflies (see City, Owl 2009)
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:57 PM on June 29, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:57 PM on June 29, 2017 [14 favorites]
After the insatiable leopard had eaten the faces off all the people down the street, I had hoped the attacks had been left behind, that we were past that.
You don't get to show up two years too late with the hand-wringing Senator Enabler.
posted by riverlife at 8:57 PM on June 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
You don't get to show up two years too late with the hand-wringing Senator Enabler.
posted by riverlife at 8:57 PM on June 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
to our pleas, he is a deaf leopard indeed
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:01 PM on June 29, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:01 PM on June 29, 2017 [15 favorites]
Pour Some Bullshit on Me, Senator
posted by riverlife at 9:04 PM on June 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by riverlife at 9:04 PM on June 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
Some stuff I'm clearing out of my browser tabs things I think are worth reading:
Alex Pareene: This is Normal
Politico: Dazed GOP bolts Washington in health care disarray
A thread from Max Bergman, former State Department official:
And pause for a moment to thank Daily Beast's Dan Collins, whose actual job today was to call up NASA and ask them if they're running a secret child sex slave colony on Mars, because some guy on Alex Jones's show said they were. NASA Denies That It’s Running a Child Slave Colony on Mars. "When NASA’s Webster was asked about the veracity of the one rumor by The Daily Beast on Thursday, he responded, “there’s only one stupid rumor on the Internet? Now that’s news.”"
posted by zachlipton at 9:11 PM on June 29, 2017 [69 favorites]
Alex Pareene: This is Normal
What most of the worst people in Donald Trump’s administration have in common is that they are Republicans. This simple fact is obscured sometimes by the many ways in which Trump is genuinely an aberration from the political norm—like his practice of naked nepotism rather than laundering the perpetuation of class advantage through a “meritocratic” process—and by the fact that many of the most vocal online spokespeople for “the resistance” ignore the recent history of the Republican Party in favor of a Trump-centric theory of How Fucked Up Everything Is.Daily Beast: Republicans Left Ron Johnson for Dead Last Year, Now He Could Kill Their Health Care Bill. Sen. Johnson, who is now just RonJohn on twitter for some reason, was abandoned by the party during his last election, and he's promised not to run again, so he doesn't exactly feel he has to listen to the leadership now. Note though that Johnson's increasingly bonkers positions on the bill aren't directly motivated by personal payback, per Bloomberg's Steven Dennis, but it does mean he doesn't particularly care what McConnell thinks of him.
...
The worst members of Trump’s cabinet—Jeff Sessions, Scott Pruitt, Betsy DeVos—are Republicans. Their analogues in any possible alternate Republican presidency would’ve been basically identical in how they carried out their work. Jeb Bush would’ve signed the AHCA. Marco Rubio would’ve sold arms to Saudi Arabia. John Kasich would’ve abided the theft of a Supreme Court seat and selected a justice just as conservative as Neil Gorsuch, if not Gorsuch himself.
None of those men would’ve lobbed crude personal insults at cable show hosts. They wouldn’t have been as cartoonishly, personally corrupt in their business dealings (though scores of their appointees would have been). But even the most consequential way in which Trump differs from a hypothetical alternate Republican president, his blatant obstruction of the investigation into whether or not he is somehow compromised by or in league with the Russian government, has almost no real-world consequences, compared to his (bog-standard Republican) international and domestic policy agendas. When Mitch McConnell’s underhanded legislative maneuvering is included in a list of ways in which Trump is normalizing authoritarianism, you give the president far too much credit and the Republican Party far too little.
It is true that Trump has tapped into, and intensified, a virulent strain of authoritarian ethno-nationalism appealing to millions of Americans more directly than other Republican presidential contenders were willing to. But that tendency has undergirded conservative politics for years, and numerous Republicans shamelessly exploited it during Barack Obama’s terms in office. The election of Trump was the cork exploding out of a bottle that the Republican Party spent a generation shaking. Remember that once he is gone and they try to convince you to put them back in power.
Politico: Dazed GOP bolts Washington in health care disarray
“Our members seem to have too much information and are almost in mental lockdown,” said one Republican senator, who was perplexed at where the party goes from here. “I can’t imagine going home for 10 days is helpful.”It's pretty damn clear that they, in fact, do not have "too much information" since virtually all of them are still clueless about basic aspects of health care.
A thread from Max Bergman, former State Department official:
I went back to the State Dept. this week for the first time since Jan 20th. It was incredibly depressing. American diplomacy is dying. 1.The Hill: WH ethics office asked to investigate top Trump ethics aide [real!]
State is being quickly gutted. Offices closing; Sr. and mid level career experts fleeing or being axed. The deconstruction is happening 2.
Reorg being done by isolated ideologues that know-nothing and have walled themselves off from the career staff that do. 3.
Little Congress can do to stop it. Tillerson is implementing the Admin massive budget cuts even though no budgetary reason to do so 4.
Idea that Tillerson running State like a business overlooks that most businesses fail. 5.
What business guts one of its most important and effective units at a time when it (the US) is experiencing unprecedented econ growth 6.
Tillerson is now clearly one of worst Sec States in American history. Few have done more to weaken America. Putin c/d not be happier 7.
The Office of Government Ethics (OGE), sent a letter to the White House Thursday raising concerns about a possible ethics violation by top White House aide Stefan Passantino.Officials from 10 states have written a letter demanding that Trump end DACA or they will challenge it in court. There were reports back in February (via Maggie Haberman) that the White House was trying to come up with an excuse to end DACA while shielding Trump from political fallback through a court challenge and/or Sessions announcing the program was illegal and stopping it. Pay close attention to future DACA-related news.
Five Senate Democrats wrote to the top ethics watchdog group after Passantino delivered the White House's legal position on billionaire Trump adviser Carl Icahn's employment status to the media. Passantino, who lists Icahn among his former clients, is required to recuse himself from personnel matters regarding any individuals for whom he previously worked.
The Senate Democrats alleged in their letter that Passantino violated an ethics rule in delivering the legal position.
And pause for a moment to thank Daily Beast's Dan Collins, whose actual job today was to call up NASA and ask them if they're running a secret child sex slave colony on Mars, because some guy on Alex Jones's show said they were. NASA Denies That It’s Running a Child Slave Colony on Mars. "When NASA’s Webster was asked about the veracity of the one rumor by The Daily Beast on Thursday, he responded, “there’s only one stupid rumor on the Internet? Now that’s news.”"
posted by zachlipton at 9:11 PM on June 29, 2017 [69 favorites]
In news of recently installed rulers reducing their press availability:
Le Monde quotes the source as saying that the president [Macron] did not "baulk" at speaking to the media.posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 9:33 PM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
However, "his 'complex thought process' lends itself badly to the game of question-and-answer with journalists", the paper notes.
“I can’t imagine going home for 10 days is helpful".
Yeah, ten days is a lot of time to hide out from your pissed off constituents at home.
posted by azpenguin at 10:23 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yeah, ten days is a lot of time to hide out from your pissed off constituents at home.
posted by azpenguin at 10:23 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Zachlipton - Well, congratulations. You broke me. That Mars story just caused me to that'senoughinternet.gif
I'm shutting down early tonight. I dunno if you get a prize for that, or what, but... Kudos.
posted by greermahoney at 10:42 PM on June 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm shutting down early tonight. I dunno if you get a prize for that, or what, but... Kudos.
posted by greermahoney at 10:42 PM on June 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
Well, Barack Obama isn't doing anything, and he's been on CIA missions to mars before. He can free those kids no prob.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:02 AM on June 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:02 AM on June 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
Wait a minute, NASA has been appropriating NRA funding this whole time for Obama's sexual slavery pleasure missions to Mars and no one told us?
This is almost as bad as the time Obama tried to disrupt the pipeline from Canada to stop the burning of lizard people bones to power our cars!
AND THE TIME HILLARY WON RIGGED ARGUMENTS AGAINST THE MAJESTIC TOUPE OF DEALMAKING BECAUSE SHE RESEARCHED THE POTENTIAL QUESTIONS IN ADVANCE!
Filthy liberal treachery!
posted by saysthis at 12:12 AM on June 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
This is almost as bad as the time Obama tried to disrupt the pipeline from Canada to stop the burning of lizard people bones to power our cars!
AND THE TIME HILLARY WON RIGGED ARGUMENTS AGAINST THE MAJESTIC TOUPE OF DEALMAKING BECAUSE SHE RESEARCHED THE POTENTIAL QUESTIONS IN ADVANCE!
Filthy liberal treachery!
posted by saysthis at 12:12 AM on June 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
AND IN CASE NO ONE KNEW, the lizard people have been releasing CFC's into the atmosphere! We must burn the bones of their liquid ancestral graves to make them stop their evil terraforming plans! Everyone knows liberalzards are cold-blooded which is why we must buy gasoline and burn their legacy! Solar is a reptile conspiracy! Tillerson is sleepy and okay with renewable because he is WARM, like all MAMMALS. The REPTILES are winning!
/HAMBURGER
posted by saysthis at 12:23 AM on June 30, 2017
/HAMBURGER
posted by saysthis at 12:23 AM on June 30, 2017
Well now you're just making stuff up
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:27 AM on June 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:27 AM on June 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
I am not! I have proof that this strategy works on HALF the electorate, including capslock, and I will release release the proof in two weeks on my Twitter and on parchment made of Obamacare-era insurance policies written in Louis Mensch's spit!
/makingstuffup hamburger NOTREAL
posted by saysthis at 12:32 AM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
/makingstuffup hamburger NOTREAL
posted by saysthis at 12:32 AM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
Im watching the beginning of Morning Joe to see their response. Joe and Mika aren't on yet, but Donny Deutsch is visually just enraged. I didn't catch everything he said, but a couple of the fragments I caught included "phisycally disgusting man", "vulgar pig", "not mentally okay" "enough is enough with this disgusting vulgar man", and on and on. He could barely contain himself. Note that he's known Donald Trump for years.
posted by Justinian at 3:07 AM on June 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 3:07 AM on June 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
Mika Brzezinski and Joe Scarborough: Donald Trump is not well
Also included in the op-ed is that Brzezinski initially didn't want to have dinner with Trump in December, so Scarborough went alone. Brzezinski "reluctantly" came the next night after a "disappointed" Trump requested her presence.
posted by zachlipton at 3:24 AM on June 30, 2017 [49 favorites]
We have known Mr. Trump for more than a decade and have some fond memories of our relationship together. But that hasn’t stopped us from criticizing his abhorrent behavior or worrying about his fitness. During the height of the 2016 presidential campaign, Joe often listened to Trump staff members complain about their boss’s erratic behavior, including a top campaign official who was as close to the Republican candidate as anyone.I mean, ok, that's the Donald Trump you knew I guess, but an awful lot of women came forward to say that wasn't the Donald Trump they knew, and he bragged about sexual assault and "inspecting" the dressing room where underage pageant contestants were changing, not to mention leading a national campaign of birtherism, so there's pretty significant evidence he was not, in fact, capable of keeping his worst instincts in check.
We, too, have noticed a change in his behavior over the past few years. Perhaps that is why we were neither shocked nor insulted by the president’s personal attack. The Donald Trump we knew before the campaign was a flawed character but one who still seemed capable of keeping his worst instincts in check.
Also included in the op-ed is that Brzezinski initially didn't want to have dinner with Trump in December, so Scarborough went alone. Brzezinski "reluctantly" came the next night after a "disappointed" Trump requested her presence.
posted by zachlipton at 3:24 AM on June 30, 2017 [49 favorites]
Reading that text (I don't know want to call something like that), the surreality of our time really hit me. It's just wild - these are morning show hosts writing about the president of the United States like, I don't know, it's just absurd.
However, there's also the thing that they have been his enablers for ages. I won't say they deserve anything, he is so disgusting I would wish his insults on anyone. But you know, leopards, faces…
posted by mumimor at 3:34 AM on June 30, 2017 [11 favorites]
However, there's also the thing that they have been his enablers for ages. I won't say they deserve anything, he is so disgusting I would wish his insults on anyone. But you know, leopards, faces…
posted by mumimor at 3:34 AM on June 30, 2017 [11 favorites]
This is our life now, I guess.
posted by Justinian at 3:37 AM on June 30, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 3:37 AM on June 30, 2017 [22 favorites]
This year, top White House staff members warned that the National Enquirer was planning to publish a negative article about us unless we begged the president to have the story spiked. We ignored their desperate pleas.
Joe and Mika said a lot more about this on air just now. After their show did a lot of critical coverage of Trump, they got wind from Mika's teenaged children that the Enquirer was essentially harassing them -- following them around, asking questions (stuff to do with her ex and their divorce, apparently?) -- and Joe had interactions with with an Enquirer reporter hanging around Mika's house -- tracking his visits, I guess.
Then Joe gets multiple calls from a highly placed person at the White House telling him that if he calls Trump, apologizes for the critical coverage, and basically grovels to him, this will all go away and the coming story will be killed. So the President of the United States basically tried to blackmail and intimidate morning TV hosts into being nice to him.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:27 AM on June 30, 2017 [101 favorites]
Joe and Mika said a lot more about this on air just now. After their show did a lot of critical coverage of Trump, they got wind from Mika's teenaged children that the Enquirer was essentially harassing them -- following them around, asking questions (stuff to do with her ex and their divorce, apparently?) -- and Joe had interactions with with an Enquirer reporter hanging around Mika's house -- tracking his visits, I guess.
Then Joe gets multiple calls from a highly placed person at the White House telling him that if he calls Trump, apologizes for the critical coverage, and basically grovels to him, this will all go away and the coming story will be killed. So the President of the United States basically tried to blackmail and intimidate morning TV hosts into being nice to him.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:27 AM on June 30, 2017 [101 favorites]
Also, according to Scarborough, after the time when Trump hauled all the House members up to the White House to browbeat them about passing the AHCA, he got calls from several Reps to let him know that Trump went on a long ugly tirade about Brzezinski (including another weird assortment of "bleeding from the ears" type comments) during the meeting. One Congressman said he found it disturbing enough that he was a bit concerned for their safety.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:36 AM on June 30, 2017 [61 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:36 AM on June 30, 2017 [61 favorites]
The story Scarborough related, which FelliniBlank is referring to, was disturbing enough that I think it's time for public figures to say that Trump isn't just unfit for the Presidency on grounds of policy or temperament, but is unfit because he is mentally ill and/or possibly physically ill. They started going there on the show which is a good first step.
posted by Justinian at 4:41 AM on June 30, 2017 [37 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 4:41 AM on June 30, 2017 [37 favorites]
My first thought when I read about the child slaves on Mars was, has he convinced any parents of missing children? Because that thought is heartbreaking to me. I really hope he's just talking about random, unnamed children.
Trump & Melania leave this afternoon for Trump's golf course (I forget which one) to return on Wednesday. I'm sure he will be working hard and having lots of "meetings."
Finally, the decimation of our State Department is really horrifying and inexplicable. I understand the GOP agenda to shrink the Federal Government but even they want a strong military and I would have thought that a robust State Department would go hand in hand. What possible reason could DJT have for doing this? I mean aside from being given orders by Putin. Is he just lazy? An isolationist? I'm really concerned that even after Trump is gone it will take a long time to get it back to normal.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:43 AM on June 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
Trump & Melania leave this afternoon for Trump's golf course (I forget which one) to return on Wednesday. I'm sure he will be working hard and having lots of "meetings."
Finally, the decimation of our State Department is really horrifying and inexplicable. I understand the GOP agenda to shrink the Federal Government but even they want a strong military and I would have thought that a robust State Department would go hand in hand. What possible reason could DJT have for doing this? I mean aside from being given orders by Putin. Is he just lazy? An isolationist? I'm really concerned that even after Trump is gone it will take a long time to get it back to normal.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:43 AM on June 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
(I'm talking about the reportedly angry, ugly rant about Brzezinski that Trump went on in a policy meeting which scared a Congressman enough that he felt it necessary to call Scarborough to warn him about he and Mika's physical safety.
posted by Justinian at 4:43 AM on June 30, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 4:43 AM on June 30, 2017 [11 favorites]
Well, he is a sociopath, so why this would surprise anybody is a head scratcher.
posted by Yowser at 4:44 AM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Yowser at 4:44 AM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
Mika Brzezinski and Joe Scarborough: Donald Trump is not well
They are reacting as you would expect them to react.
By doing so, they are still playing Trump's game: Trump attacks the media. The media gets defensive.
Instead, they should break out of this cycle and state the plain, obvious truth:
Trump is a narcissistic sociopath. He is a danger to the US and to the world.
[On preview, I see that a similar point was just made by Yowser and spitbull.]
Also, Republicans that defend him (i.e. almost all of them) are complicit in this and should be held accountable once the Trump presidency is over. In fact, that's the real story here. Noone is really surprised by Trump's antics. The real surprise is the lengths that Republicans will go to to defend him. That is something that the media should focus on. Shift the focus away from Trump and expose Republicans for the hypocrites they are.
posted by sour cream at 4:52 AM on June 30, 2017 [23 favorites]
They are reacting as you would expect them to react.
By doing so, they are still playing Trump's game: Trump attacks the media. The media gets defensive.
Instead, they should break out of this cycle and state the plain, obvious truth:
Trump is a narcissistic sociopath. He is a danger to the US and to the world.
[On preview, I see that a similar point was just made by Yowser and spitbull.]
Also, Republicans that defend him (i.e. almost all of them) are complicit in this and should be held accountable once the Trump presidency is over. In fact, that's the real story here. Noone is really surprised by Trump's antics. The real surprise is the lengths that Republicans will go to to defend him. That is something that the media should focus on. Shift the focus away from Trump and expose Republicans for the hypocrites they are.
posted by sour cream at 4:52 AM on June 30, 2017 [23 favorites]
he's an american - yes, he is a bona fide representation of our country and culture, as we really are - he is not an aberration, he is us
for us to truly excise what he represents from the country is going to mean taking a good hard look at what we really are and what level of bullshit we're still willing to swallow
i think nothing short of a national catastrophe will force us to do that
posted by pyramid termite at 4:55 AM on June 30, 2017 [13 favorites]
for us to truly excise what he represents from the country is going to mean taking a good hard look at what we really are and what level of bullshit we're still willing to swallow
i think nothing short of a national catastrophe will force us to do that
posted by pyramid termite at 4:55 AM on June 30, 2017 [13 favorites]
i think nothing short of a national catastrophe will force us to do that
Let it not be a South Korean catastrophe. You know, one where your president orders military attacks against North Korea and Mr Kim retaliates by hitting the south's metro Seoul (pop, 20,000,000).
posted by Mister Bijou at 5:00 AM on June 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
Let it not be a South Korean catastrophe. You know, one where your president orders military attacks against North Korea and Mr Kim retaliates by hitting the south's metro Seoul (pop, 20,000,000).
posted by Mister Bijou at 5:00 AM on June 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
A woman should not have to write an op-ed in the Washington fucking Post detailing and presenting evidence about her history of plastic surgery to defend herself against the President of the United christfucking States. I really feel like I've finally gone through the looking glass.
posted by uncleozzy at 5:02 AM on June 30, 2017 [71 favorites]
posted by uncleozzy at 5:02 AM on June 30, 2017 [71 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump: Crime and killings in Chicago have reached such epidemic proportions that I am sending in Federal help. 1714 shootings in Chicago this year!
Mr President, go fuck yourself. This city is sick, but it's not as sick as you are, and we neither want nor need your "help".
posted by jammer at 5:09 AM on June 30, 2017 [18 favorites]
Mr President, go fuck yourself. This city is sick, but it's not as sick as you are, and we neither want nor need your "help".
posted by jammer at 5:09 AM on June 30, 2017 [18 favorites]
The Intercept has audio of Trump's speech at the private fundraiser if anyone is dying to hear the President rant against CNN.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:09 AM on June 30, 2017
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:09 AM on June 30, 2017
an old mad bland despised and orange bling
posted by pyramid termite at 5:13 AM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by pyramid termite at 5:13 AM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
So he's going to divert from this whole blackmail/extortion/shitfight clusterfuck by threatening martial law in Chicago? Is he srs right now?
posted by Talez at 5:15 AM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Talez at 5:15 AM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
Ben Sasse was on Fox & Friends at 6:19 this morning to tout the idea of repealing Obamacare now and replacing later, twenty minutes later DJT tweeted that same idea. All these years we've been complaining about the Senior Citizens in our lives who watch too much FOX and now it's our President
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:17 AM on June 30, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:17 AM on June 30, 2017 [14 favorites]
Finally, the decimation of our State Department is really horrifying and inexplicable.
Category error. You're trying to assign a traditional, policy-based motive to someone who doesn't think & interact with the world that way. You say to yourself "whatever ideology he has, a functioning State Dept. is necessary to achieve his policy goals." A malignant narcissist has no ideology & no set of policies derived from it. He has urges: personal grudges, opportunities to catch the admiration & glory that are his vital sustenance, opportunities for graft, favors to collect & bestow on others. It's all about him personally. That's what a narcissist is, someone whose entire life is about themselves. If he has nothing to be gained from a transaction then he loses all interest in it & lets someone else decide the action to take. A functioning State gets in the way of all that, constrains & limits his ability to take opposite positions in the same matter on consecutive days because there's something to be gained from it for him personally.
posted by scalefree at 5:17 AM on June 30, 2017 [14 favorites]
Category error. You're trying to assign a traditional, policy-based motive to someone who doesn't think & interact with the world that way. You say to yourself "whatever ideology he has, a functioning State Dept. is necessary to achieve his policy goals." A malignant narcissist has no ideology & no set of policies derived from it. He has urges: personal grudges, opportunities to catch the admiration & glory that are his vital sustenance, opportunities for graft, favors to collect & bestow on others. It's all about him personally. That's what a narcissist is, someone whose entire life is about themselves. If he has nothing to be gained from a transaction then he loses all interest in it & lets someone else decide the action to take. A functioning State gets in the way of all that, constrains & limits his ability to take opposite positions in the same matter on consecutive days because there's something to be gained from it for him personally.
posted by scalefree at 5:17 AM on June 30, 2017 [14 favorites]
Just want to drop this article from March 2016 here: Donald Trump Hates Women.
posted by triggerfinger at 5:20 AM on June 30, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by triggerfinger at 5:20 AM on June 30, 2017 [8 favorites]
he's an american - yes, he is a bona fide representation of our country and culture, as we really are - he is not an aberration, he is us
Pishposh. Sociopaths are an aberration. They are dangerous. If you've never met one, count your blessings. You can't learn anything about a sociopath by looking in the mirror (unless you are one yourself).
Donald Trump doesn't represent anything, except for his own interest first and those of his family and cronies a distant second.
posted by sour cream at 5:21 AM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
Pishposh. Sociopaths are an aberration. They are dangerous. If you've never met one, count your blessings. You can't learn anything about a sociopath by looking in the mirror (unless you are one yourself).
Donald Trump doesn't represent anything, except for his own interest first and those of his family and cronies a distant second.
posted by sour cream at 5:21 AM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
"i want the fbi to be sure - if any of them cause any more trouble like that comey guy did, i'm sending their asses to chicago"
{fake}
posted by pyramid termite at 5:22 AM on June 30, 2017
{fake}
posted by pyramid termite at 5:22 AM on June 30, 2017
Two things that I haven't seen mentioned so far:
1. It seems that Susan Rice has agreed to testify before the House intelligence. AFAICT there is no scheduled date yet for that.
2. More tick tick ticking from Benjamin Wittes by way of @pwnallthethings, a "former GHCQ hacker, and true deep stater". Unrelated to any previous tick tick ticking revelations apparently.
posted by birdheist at 5:22 AM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
1. It seems that Susan Rice has agreed to testify before the House intelligence. AFAICT there is no scheduled date yet for that.
2. More tick tick ticking from Benjamin Wittes by way of @pwnallthethings, a "former GHCQ hacker, and true deep stater". Unrelated to any previous tick tick ticking revelations apparently.
posted by birdheist at 5:22 AM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
i think nothing short of a national catastrophe will force us to do that
This has been my position from the start. People act in their own self interest. As long as they have more to be gained from keeping him there than removing him, Republicans will let Trump have free rein to trample our institutions into dust. It would take a situation of shocking loss & disaster with Trump at the center of it to swing the balance of those scales for them.
posted by scalefree at 5:26 AM on June 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
This has been my position from the start. People act in their own self interest. As long as they have more to be gained from keeping him there than removing him, Republicans will let Trump have free rein to trample our institutions into dust. It would take a situation of shocking loss & disaster with Trump at the center of it to swing the balance of those scales for them.
posted by scalefree at 5:26 AM on June 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
GHCQ? They have no limitations on surveillance of people who AREN'T citizens of the UK, right?
So, everything the Campaigns said or emailed may very well be an open-book.
I'd still be happier without optical splitters on network backbones sharing traffic with intel orgs, but here we are in 2017.
posted by mikelieman at 5:44 AM on June 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
So, everything the Campaigns said or emailed may very well be an open-book.
I'd still be happier without optical splitters on network backbones sharing traffic with intel orgs, but here we are in 2017.
posted by mikelieman at 5:44 AM on June 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm not convinced Trump is exhibiting symptoms of conditions besides the narcissism and selfishness we have seen many times before. He is acting the way NPD personalities act when they have been enabled to an astonishing degree. The reason he has no filter and openly threatens people and makes policies that are incredibly dangerous to millions is because nobody stops him. They just shrug and say, "That's how he is, work around it." It's a classic enabler response, borne from a desire to limit the chaos and consequences on everyone else. But HE never experiences any consequences. He is what happens when you give a narcissistically personality ultimate power and unlimited money.
And you know what, he's not even unique. There are tons of bosses, parents, governing leaders, etc. who choose to use their authority to hurt people just because they can. And the longer they're enabled, the more dysfunctional they get, until suddenly they're trying to mow you down with their car, or they poison your dog, or kidnap your kids, or sue you into oblivion, or ruin your career. There are a zillion examples of people who behave like this, and it's not because they have always been a special brand of crazy, but because there are never consequences no matter how utterly insane they behave. They don't go to jail. If they do, they're right back out. It's practically impossible to get a restraining order, and police won't want to take the trouble to enforce it if you do. If they have the resources, your ability to fight back is a lost cause because they have the better lawyers, or the authority to fire you, or whatever.
Trump is what you get when someone has been rewarded and lauded for 40-odd years for any amount of horrible behavior, and who has (correctly) assumed that he can do literally anything. Yeah, because nobody does anything, because they're either afraid of the consequences or they benefit somehow. And look at all the people who are taking the opportunity of his example to be *just* as horrible.
posted by Autumnheart at 5:51 AM on June 30, 2017 [58 favorites]
And you know what, he's not even unique. There are tons of bosses, parents, governing leaders, etc. who choose to use their authority to hurt people just because they can. And the longer they're enabled, the more dysfunctional they get, until suddenly they're trying to mow you down with their car, or they poison your dog, or kidnap your kids, or sue you into oblivion, or ruin your career. There are a zillion examples of people who behave like this, and it's not because they have always been a special brand of crazy, but because there are never consequences no matter how utterly insane they behave. They don't go to jail. If they do, they're right back out. It's practically impossible to get a restraining order, and police won't want to take the trouble to enforce it if you do. If they have the resources, your ability to fight back is a lost cause because they have the better lawyers, or the authority to fire you, or whatever.
Trump is what you get when someone has been rewarded and lauded for 40-odd years for any amount of horrible behavior, and who has (correctly) assumed that he can do literally anything. Yeah, because nobody does anything, because they're either afraid of the consequences or they benefit somehow. And look at all the people who are taking the opportunity of his example to be *just* as horrible.
posted by Autumnheart at 5:51 AM on June 30, 2017 [58 favorites]
2. More tick tick ticking from Benjamin Wittes by way of @pwnallthethings, a "former GHCQ hacker, and true deep stater"
I thought we agreed to quit giving this guy links? Stories come out or not, independent of whether we continue to fall into an attention whore's attention schtick.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:57 AM on June 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
I thought we agreed to quit giving this guy links? Stories come out or not, independent of whether we continue to fall into an attention whore's attention schtick.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:57 AM on June 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
talk about impeachment a lot. Make a list of all the reasons why it should happen and start trying to convince people.
Agreed. Please note these are not legal standards, they are "unfit to serve" standards
1) He's a sociopathic violent sex abuser
2) He publicly asked Russia to interfere in the election to help him
3) They did, he knows it, and he's obstructed justice by firing the head of the FBI who was investigating it
4) He's being bribed through his properties and is positively gleeful about it
5) His wife is an illegal immigrant, in violation of the law*
6) He is ridiculously unqualified to lead by every metric ever considered
7) Stop AllTheThings until he's gone. Go! Get him out! Now!
* Yeah but his insane cruelty to immigrants and her refusal to do anything at all = no, that's a thing now. Her immigration story is on the table afaic. Not to punish her, but to go all nine yards on him.
posted by petebest at 5:58 AM on June 30, 2017 [19 favorites]
Agreed. Please note these are not legal standards, they are "unfit to serve" standards
1) He's a sociopathic violent sex abuser
2) He publicly asked Russia to interfere in the election to help him
3) They did, he knows it, and he's obstructed justice by firing the head of the FBI who was investigating it
4) He's being bribed through his properties and is positively gleeful about it
5) His wife is an illegal immigrant, in violation of the law*
6) He is ridiculously unqualified to lead by every metric ever considered
7) Stop AllTheThings until he's gone. Go! Get him out! Now!
* Yeah but his insane cruelty to immigrants and her refusal to do anything at all = no, that's a thing now. Her immigration story is on the table afaic. Not to punish her, but to go all nine yards on him.
posted by petebest at 5:58 AM on June 30, 2017 [19 favorites]
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrumpWait wait wait wait wait. Did he just seriously admit to being a co-conspirator in an extortion plot?
Watched low rated @Morning_Joe for first time in long time. FAKE NEWS. He called me to stop a National Enquirer article. I said no! Bad show
5:55 AM - 30 Jun 2017
posted by Talez at 5:59 AM on June 30, 2017 [77 favorites]
Yyyyyyyup. Added #8 to above list.
posted by petebest at 6:01 AM on June 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by petebest at 6:01 AM on June 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm still on Team All of the Above. He is a narcissistic sociopath and has been his entire adult life. He is a truly terrible person, and has been his entire adult life. I think he's also probably on (legal but misprescribed) drugs. (Why the hell else would he have that guy as his doctor?) And I think he's experiencing cognitive decline that is making it increasingly difficult for him to behave in even moderately socially-acceptable ways (and, like, remember words or events that happened recently). He's always been a buffoon, a bully and a terrible human, but he could at least pretend for short periods of time, in public, to just be a run-of-the-bill socialite with eccentric tastes and behaviors.
But none of that ultimately matters because the fact that he is where he is right now is 100% because millions of people in this country looked at him as he is right this moment and went, "Yeah, sure, I'm into it." And the Republican Party looked at him and went ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ "Welp, let's ride this tiger, what could possibly go wrong?"
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:01 AM on June 30, 2017 [36 favorites]
But none of that ultimately matters because the fact that he is where he is right now is 100% because millions of people in this country looked at him as he is right this moment and went, "Yeah, sure, I'm into it." And the Republican Party looked at him and went ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ "Welp, let's ride this tiger, what could possibly go wrong?"
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:01 AM on June 30, 2017 [36 favorites]
Oh good, he just gave that story big strong legs.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:02 AM on June 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:02 AM on June 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump
Watched low rated @Morning_Joe for first time in long time. FAKE NEWS. He called me to stop a National Enquirer article. I said no! Bad show
1) Jesus.
2) In later life, people with severe personality disorders very often experience and display cognitive decline similar to dementia. Dementia/Alzheimers/Narcissism/Sociopathy are not mutually exclusive and can all be filed together in the "Motherfucker Ain't Right" bin.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:02 AM on June 30, 2017 [44 favorites]
Watched low rated @Morning_Joe for first time in long time. FAKE NEWS. He called me to stop a National Enquirer article. I said no! Bad show
1) Jesus.
2) In later life, people with severe personality disorders very often experience and display cognitive decline similar to dementia. Dementia/Alzheimers/Narcissism/Sociopathy are not mutually exclusive and can all be filed together in the "Motherfucker Ain't Right" bin.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:02 AM on June 30, 2017 [44 favorites]
He is acting the way NPD personalities act when they have been enabled to an astonishing degree.
This. And I just want to say that if you've been the victim of abuse by someone with NPD or sociopathy and having a hard time right now, you're not alone. Going no/low contact is often the only way to break free of their abuse. And you can't go no contact with the head of your government, no matter how hard you try.
So, if waking up every day and checking the news is like trying to walk through a minefield of CPTSD triggers, know that you're not alone. There are lots of us in this minefield; what you're experiencing is real; you're not crazy. It's not going to be like this forever; we'll get through it together.
posted by melissasaurus at 6:05 AM on June 30, 2017 [66 favorites]
This. And I just want to say that if you've been the victim of abuse by someone with NPD or sociopathy and having a hard time right now, you're not alone. Going no/low contact is often the only way to break free of their abuse. And you can't go no contact with the head of your government, no matter how hard you try.
So, if waking up every day and checking the news is like trying to walk through a minefield of CPTSD triggers, know that you're not alone. There are lots of us in this minefield; what you're experiencing is real; you're not crazy. It's not going to be like this forever; we'll get through it together.
posted by melissasaurus at 6:05 AM on June 30, 2017 [66 favorites]
I'll have to see if I can find it again, but I did find an interesting discussion on outofthefog.net (a site for relatives of people with personality disorders) about how they noticed that the disordered person seems increasingly unable or unwilling to disguise their behavior as they get older.
Now, granted, old people suddenly letting it all hang out is so common as to be a cliche. Maybe this is something that happens with aging. And everyone has some narcissistic traits or other dysfunctional patterns, just not to an excessive degree, so that instead of being a genuinely damaging personality, you're merely a little weird and just Grandma being Grandma.
posted by Autumnheart at 6:09 AM on June 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
Now, granted, old people suddenly letting it all hang out is so common as to be a cliche. Maybe this is something that happens with aging. And everyone has some narcissistic traits or other dysfunctional patterns, just not to an excessive degree, so that instead of being a genuinely damaging personality, you're merely a little weird and just Grandma being Grandma.
posted by Autumnheart at 6:09 AM on June 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
Radiolab (I know) this week was about the cost to the body of running the prefrontal cortex (the part of the brain that is responsible for telling you to hold the fuck up when you might be about to do something stupid, bad, wrong, socially unacceptable, etc...). It's the most resource-intensive part of the brain, and the first to start to sputter out when you're tired or hungry or otherwise not running on all physical cylinders. Which is why so many of us (ahem) find ourselves standing over the sink at 11PM eating Chunky Monkey out of the carton. Or tweeting self-incriminating nonsense at 5 AM.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:16 AM on June 30, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:16 AM on June 30, 2017 [24 favorites]
Please note these are not legal standards, they are "unfit to serve" standards
Unfortunately, legal standards are what impeachment is going to require. That's kind of how it works.
Just like you need an actual cause to arrest someone, like "I saw him digging through my bag and taking things out of it", and you can't just arrest someone for "he was looking at my stuff all creepy-like".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:21 AM on June 30, 2017
Unfortunately, legal standards are what impeachment is going to require. That's kind of how it works.
Just like you need an actual cause to arrest someone, like "I saw him digging through my bag and taking things out of it", and you can't just arrest someone for "he was looking at my stuff all creepy-like".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:21 AM on June 30, 2017
Trump seems to truly believe that yelling FAKE NEWS is a universal antidote. I guess for his hardcore supporters, it works
posted by thelonius at 6:22 AM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 6:22 AM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
Joe and Mika did more than almost anyone to get Trump elected. He has the exact same temperament today as he did two years ago when they were promoting him on air, uncritically, every single day. Fuck them, they both deserve this.
Further, if Joe has evidence of blackmail, he is right now, today, covering up Trump's commission of yet more crimes. They're not responding to Trump's attacks in any meaningful way, they're still helping him.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:27 AM on June 30, 2017 [38 favorites]
Further, if Joe has evidence of blackmail, he is right now, today, covering up Trump's commission of yet more crimes. They're not responding to Trump's attacks in any meaningful way, they're still helping him.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:27 AM on June 30, 2017 [38 favorites]
Well, the legal standard is "high crimes and misdemeanors", which can have a pretty broad interpretation. Not to mention the will of Congress is required, so it's not like the act of committing what the law states is a felony is enough to trigger impeachment automatically. If the Republican majority wants to be like, "What's a little blackmail between friends?" then nothing happens. And it seems clear that that is their position.
posted by Autumnheart at 6:27 AM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Autumnheart at 6:27 AM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
Unfortunately, legal standards are what impeachment is going to require. That's kind of how it works.
Just like you need an actual cause to arrest someone, like "I saw him digging through my bag and taking things out of it", and you can't just arrest someone for "he was looking at my stuff all creepy-like".
Not really. Impeachment is essentially a political process, not a legal one. As then House Minority Leader put it, an impeachable offense is “whatever a majority of the House of Representatives considers it to be at a given moment in history.”
posted by Chrysostom at 6:29 AM on June 30, 2017 [22 favorites]
Just like you need an actual cause to arrest someone, like "I saw him digging through my bag and taking things out of it", and you can't just arrest someone for "he was looking at my stuff all creepy-like".
Not really. Impeachment is essentially a political process, not a legal one. As then House Minority Leader put it, an impeachable offense is “whatever a majority of the House of Representatives considers it to be at a given moment in history.”
posted by Chrysostom at 6:29 AM on June 30, 2017 [22 favorites]
Trump's been publicly blackmailing Joe and Mika since August.
@realDonaldTrump: Some day, when things calm down, I'll tell the real story of @JoeNBC and his very insecure long-time girlfriend, @morningmika. Two clowns!
posted by klarck at 6:30 AM on June 30, 2017 [16 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump: Some day, when things calm down, I'll tell the real story of @JoeNBC and his very insecure long-time girlfriend, @morningmika. Two clowns!
posted by klarck at 6:30 AM on June 30, 2017 [16 favorites]
Trump is what you get when someone has been rewarded and lauded forNo one has ever really been able to do much, not when he was a child, and not now.40-odd years for any amount of horrible behaviorhis entire life regardless of his behavior or the consequences, and who has (correctly) assumed that he can do literally anything. Yeah, because nobody does anything, because they're either afraid of the consequences or they benefit somehow. And look at all the people who are taking the opportunity of his example to be *just* as horrible.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:30 AM on June 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
Unfortunately, legal standards are what impeachment is going to require.
and who defines what those legal standards are? congress, not the courts - if congress wanted to declare making a nasty tweet about someone's facelift a "high crime and misdemeanor", there's nothing to stop them
(i wouldn't hold my breath)
posted by pyramid termite at 6:30 AM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
and who defines what those legal standards are? congress, not the courts - if congress wanted to declare making a nasty tweet about someone's facelift a "high crime and misdemeanor", there's nothing to stop them
(i wouldn't hold my breath)
posted by pyramid termite at 6:30 AM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
Unfortunately, legal standards are what impeachment is going to require. That's kind of how it works.
Impeachment is a political process, not a legal one. There are no standards of proof beyond "what the necessary percentage of Reps/Senators agree to."
From a Clinton impeachment "Trial Guide" in WaPo:
Impeachment is a political process, not a legal one. There are no standards of proof beyond "what the necessary percentage of Reps/Senators agree to."
From a Clinton impeachment "Trial Guide" in WaPo:
What is the burden of proof?posted by melissasaurus at 6:33 AM on June 30, 2017 [11 favorites]
There isn't one. It's up to each individual senator to decide what the proper burden of proof should be. During the 1986 trial of Judge Claiborne, the Senate rejected his motion to establish that the House managers had to prove his guilt "beyond a reasonable doubt," leaving the matter up to the conscience of each individual senator.
The White House argued in its Jan. 13 trial brief for the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard, which is used to determine guilt in criminal cases, saying that such a high threshold "assures the public that this grave decision has been made with care."[...]
Others have argued for a slightly less stringent burden of proof, "clear and convincing" evidence. And some have even suggested the burden applicable in civil cases, a mere "preponderance of the evidence," arguing that the purpose of impeachment and conviction is to protect the country from an individual unfit to hold public office and that the higher standards designed to make conviction difficult would interfere with that critical function. [...]
But the high criminal standard of proof "could mean, in practice, that a man could remain president whom every member of the Senate believed to be guilty of corruption, just because his guilt was not shown 'beyond a reasonable doubt.' " [Yale law prof who wrote a handbook on impeachment during the Nixon era]'s suggested standard is "overwhelming preponderance of the evidence."
Fuck them, they both deserve this.
I concur on fuck them, I think they are reaping what they helped to sow, I don't think anyone deserves that. And even if you can let their awfulness turn off your empathy for them, there's kids involved and being harassed. Do Mika's kids deserve a Comet Pizza incident? Because that's the sort of thing that happens when someone with a following like Trump shines his shitlight onto them.
I get the impulse, but learning to turn away is bad for the soul.
posted by phearlez at 6:36 AM on June 30, 2017 [21 favorites]
I concur on fuck them, I think they are reaping what they helped to sow, I don't think anyone deserves that. And even if you can let their awfulness turn off your empathy for them, there's kids involved and being harassed. Do Mika's kids deserve a Comet Pizza incident? Because that's the sort of thing that happens when someone with a following like Trump shines his shitlight onto them.
I get the impulse, but learning to turn away is bad for the soul.
posted by phearlez at 6:36 AM on June 30, 2017 [21 favorites]
Fair enough, but I still beleive that technically back when Clinton was impeached, I remember it as how Congress had pretty much been chomping at the bit to find something they could say was a Crime-with-a-capital-C (that's why the whole Lewinsky thing got as much press as it did, because they could point to it and say "perjury! That's officially a criminal act! Ha-HA!"). That Congress was embittered enough that they could have struck far sooner if they hadn't had to find some kind of Official Legal Charge, is how I remembered it.
I could be mis-remembering or only partially understanding, however, I'll admit.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:40 AM on June 30, 2017
I could be mis-remembering or only partially understanding, however, I'll admit.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:40 AM on June 30, 2017
Joe and Mika did more than almost anyone to get Trump elected. He has the exact same temperament today as he did two years ago when they were promoting him on air, uncritically, every single day. Fuck them, they both deserve this.
I can't help but repost this:
♪♫♬ Are you calling Joe Scarborough fair,
brainy, sage, perceptive or bright?
Remember whom he gave his support
He once thought that Donald was right. ♪♫♬
posted by Too-Ticky at 6:41 AM on June 30, 2017 [46 favorites]
I can't help but repost this:
♪♫♬ Are you calling Joe Scarborough fair,
brainy, sage, perceptive or bright?
Remember whom he gave his support
He once thought that Donald was right. ♪♫♬
posted by Too-Ticky at 6:41 AM on June 30, 2017 [46 favorites]
I'm going to keep reserving my limited wells of sympathy for people without national platforms who didn't use those platforms to knowing help elect an unstable narccisist. Crying foul now when they personally experience what they thought would be born by only immigrants, the poor and liberals really doesn't matter, especially while, again, they're still actively concealing evidence of further felonies.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:44 AM on June 30, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:44 AM on June 30, 2017 [8 favorites]
Impeachment doesn't even require a statutory crime. SCOTUS Associate Justice Samuel Chase was impeached for "Political bias and arbitrary rulings, promoting a partisan political agenda on the bench". (He was acquitted.)
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:44 AM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:44 AM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
Impeachment is essentially a political process
Those of you with the knowledge, get to droppin it. This is my understanding of it. Congressional "law" is neither civil nor criminal though it can be both.
I get the impulse, but learning to turn away is bad for the soul.
Failure to act against massive political aggression for decades - specifically through the very media JoeCo exemplify, is what got us here. Who said anything about kids? No one's arguing to punish children for their parent's shitheadded and disastrous actions.
They get to redeem themselves or GTFO. Time's up.
posted by petebest at 6:46 AM on June 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
Those of you with the knowledge, get to droppin it. This is my understanding of it. Congressional "law" is neither civil nor criminal though it can be both.
I get the impulse, but learning to turn away is bad for the soul.
Failure to act against massive political aggression for decades - specifically through the very media JoeCo exemplify, is what got us here. Who said anything about kids? No one's arguing to punish children for their parent's shitheadded and disastrous actions.
They get to redeem themselves or GTFO. Time's up.
posted by petebest at 6:46 AM on June 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
Impeachment doesn't even require a statutory crime.
The first person to be impeached and removed by Congress was Judge Pickering in *looks* 1805. Nobody accused him of violating any laws and by all accounts everyone acknowledged that he was being impeached and removed because he had become clearly insane and refused to step down himself. The formal accusations were drunkenness and "unlawful rulings."
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:53 AM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
The first person to be impeached and removed by Congress was Judge Pickering in *looks* 1805. Nobody accused him of violating any laws and by all accounts everyone acknowledged that he was being impeached and removed because he had become clearly insane and refused to step down himself. The formal accusations were drunkenness and "unlawful rulings."
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:53 AM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
(Drunkenness on the job was probably a crime though)
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:56 AM on June 30, 2017
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:56 AM on June 30, 2017
In 1805? It was probably a requirement for the job.
posted by notyou at 6:57 AM on June 30, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by notyou at 6:57 AM on June 30, 2017 [15 favorites]
Haven't we explained the rules of impeachment to each other in these threads 100 times already?
posted by paper chromatographologist at 6:57 AM on June 30, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by paper chromatographologist at 6:57 AM on June 30, 2017 [21 favorites]
Heather Digby Parton/Salon: Forget the stupid tweets: There’s big news on Trump’s Russia connections — and he doesn’t want you to read it
New reports link Michael Flynn to hacking [this story from yesterday afternoon] and reveal Trump's massive business deals in the former Soviet Union [Kevin G. Hall and Ben Wieder/McClatchy: Trump dreamed of his name on towers across former Soviet Union]posted by ZeusHumms at 6:59 AM on June 30, 2017 [20 favorites]
I think we should highlight whatever reveals Trump for who he is and moves us, even incrementally, toward impeachment.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:00 AM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:00 AM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
WaPo editorial board makes the same mistake again
AFTER HIS latest execrable tweets, it’s obvious that there is no point in urging President Trump to act with greater dignity, respect for his office or, for that matter, self-respect. It isn’t going to happen. That makes it all the more urgent for the rest of us to think about how to safeguard civility and democratic values until his presidency ends.
The Op-Ed eqivalent of being "concerned". The conclusion is that we should all be nicer for 3.5 more years.
Fail.
posted by petebest at 7:01 AM on June 30, 2017 [10 favorites]
AFTER HIS latest execrable tweets, it’s obvious that there is no point in urging President Trump to act with greater dignity, respect for his office or, for that matter, self-respect. It isn’t going to happen. That makes it all the more urgent for the rest of us to think about how to safeguard civility and democratic values until his presidency ends.
The Op-Ed eqivalent of being "concerned". The conclusion is that we should all be nicer for 3.5 more years.
Fail.
posted by petebest at 7:01 AM on June 30, 2017 [10 favorites]
The time when Americans drank all day long.
"Americans drink an average of 2.3 gallons of alcohol per year compared to 7.3 gallons in 1830."
posted by notyou at 7:02 AM on June 30, 2017 [9 favorites]
"Americans drink an average of 2.3 gallons of alcohol per year compared to 7.3 gallons in 1830."
posted by notyou at 7:02 AM on June 30, 2017 [9 favorites]
Add Massachusetts to the list of states telling the federal voter-suppression commission to go screw.
posted by adamg at 7:02 AM on June 30, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by adamg at 7:02 AM on June 30, 2017 [22 favorites]
"Americans drink an average of 2.3 gallons of alcohol per year compared to 7.3 gallons in 1830."
Wasn't drinking alcoholic beverages back then safer than drinking water?
posted by PenDevil at 7:03 AM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
Wasn't drinking alcoholic beverages back then safer than drinking water?
posted by PenDevil at 7:03 AM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
Is anyone else thinking that the Slate Impeachment Watch is totally stupid? I get that Ben Mathis-Lilley absolutely loves charting from day to day about something, but his horsemen didn't work in the end, did they?
"Here's a little glimpse "behind the scenes" of Slate.com: I wanted to elevate our Impeach-O-Meter after Trump made his widely condemned Thursday morning comments about MSNBC host Mika Brzezinski allegedly having a "bloody" face-lift. Then my editor, Allison Benedikt, pointed out that everyone already knows that Trump is a crude misogynist, and that past outbreaks of his misogyny have not, ultimately, materially affected his political standing. Which is true! So we'll leave the meter the same as it was yesterday,"
Considering that Trump could murder someone and nobody will lift a finger, and we have no current hope that the House and Senate will do anything about it, every day on this thing should be a zero until/if something ACTUALLY HAPPENS that would actually get anyone to goddamned try to do it.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:04 AM on June 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
"Here's a little glimpse "behind the scenes" of Slate.com: I wanted to elevate our Impeach-O-Meter after Trump made his widely condemned Thursday morning comments about MSNBC host Mika Brzezinski allegedly having a "bloody" face-lift. Then my editor, Allison Benedikt, pointed out that everyone already knows that Trump is a crude misogynist, and that past outbreaks of his misogyny have not, ultimately, materially affected his political standing. Which is true! So we'll leave the meter the same as it was yesterday,"
Considering that Trump could murder someone and nobody will lift a finger, and we have no current hope that the House and Senate will do anything about it, every day on this thing should be a zero until/if something ACTUALLY HAPPENS that would actually get anyone to goddamned try to do it.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:04 AM on June 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
Am I allowed not to care whether Scarborough deserves being the target of 45's gangsterism, if it means 45 can be proved a gangster?
Because I don't.
posted by Devonian at 7:05 AM on June 30, 2017 [10 favorites]
Because I don't.
posted by Devonian at 7:05 AM on June 30, 2017 [10 favorites]
I Am a Republican Senator and I Am Appalled by the President's Comments [Bob Vulfov in Paste Magazine; satire]
As a Senator, a father, a husband and a son, I am completely and utterly appalled by President Trump’s crude and misogynistic comments on Twitter. The President’s language was vile and cannot be excused. Attacks like that serve no purpose in civilized political discourse. More importantly, this sort of behavior is distracting President Trump from what should be his primary focus right now: mercilessly ripping healthcare away from 22 million of the poorest and most vulnerable American citizens. [...]posted by melissasaurus at 7:08 AM on June 30, 2017 [36 favorites]
Doesn’t he realize how vital it is for us to leverage a Republican presidency and a Republican Congress to pass heaps of cold-blooded legislation? Is it not clear that our reign of terror is fleeting and we can’t keep getting distracted from our mission of wiping out the poor, the sick and the weak? Why is the President attacking specific women through Twitter instead of all women through legislation? I am sick of it and today, I stand against it.
"Americans drink an average of 2.3 gallons of alcohol per year compared to 7.3 gallons in 1830."
Wasn't drinking alcoholic beverages back then safer than drinking water?
No. But in any case, the Trump era is getting me close that 7 gallon number and it's only July.
posted by dis_integration at 7:10 AM on June 30, 2017 [17 favorites]
Wasn't drinking alcoholic beverages back then safer than drinking water?
No. But in any case, the Trump era is getting me close that 7 gallon number and it's only July.
posted by dis_integration at 7:10 AM on June 30, 2017 [17 favorites]
Johnny Wallflower: Governor Terry McAuliffe released the following statement in response to a letter directed to Virginia and other states from the Presidential Advisory Commission on Election Integrity
They could have stopped before that final paragraph, but they chose to go all the way. Fuck yes!
posted by filthy light thief at 7:12 AM on June 30, 2017 [26 favorites]
The only irregularity in the 2016 presidential election centered around Russian tampering, a finding that has been confirmed by 17 of our intelligence agencies and sworn testimony delivered to several congressional committees. In 131 days Virginia’s Department of Elections will again conduct a statewide election for the offices of Governor, Lieutenant Governor, and Attorney General, as well as 100 House of Delegates races and numerous other positions. I’m not going to divert resources that could potentially compromise that important work to enable this politically motivated and silly posturing.Emphasis mine.
They could have stopped before that final paragraph, but they chose to go all the way. Fuck yes!
posted by filthy light thief at 7:12 AM on June 30, 2017 [26 favorites]
Marc Fisher and Sean Sullivan, WaPo: Mitch McConnell, America’s No. 1 obstructionist, is trying to make big things happen
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:16 AM on June 30, 2017 [14 favorites]
Contrary to McConnell’s popular image, Gingrich argues that the majority leader’s ultimate aim is to return the Senate to the kind of bipartisanship that once made it the place where overheated political passions cooled off. “It’s not what some people think, but he told me that what he wants most is to recreate a bipartisan institution,” Gingrich said./head-explode
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:16 AM on June 30, 2017 [14 favorites]
“It’s not what some people think, but he told me that what he wants most is to recreate a bipartisan institution,” Gingrich said.
Gingrich is right, he and McConnell just think of the "bi" there as meaning "Republican" and "Tea Party".
posted by Etrigan at 7:18 AM on June 30, 2017 [13 favorites]
Gingrich is right, he and McConnell just think of the "bi" there as meaning "Republican" and "Tea Party".
posted by Etrigan at 7:18 AM on June 30, 2017 [13 favorites]
Fine. The Legal Standard for Presidential Impeachment (Findlaw)
Article I § 2 of the United States Constitution gives the House of Representatives the sole power to impeach (make formal charges against) and Article I § 3 gives the Senate the sole power to try impeachments. Article II § 4 of the Constitution provides as follows:
"The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors."
Thus, the operative legal standard to apply to an impeachment of a sitting President is "treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors." There is substantial difference of opinion over the interpretation of these words.
There are essentially four schools of thought concerning the meaning of these words, although there are innumerable subsets within those four categories.
1) "Congressional Interpretation" (Congress do what it want). Frowned on by legal types.
2) "An indictable crime" (Nixon's cronies' favorite interpretation)
3) "Misdemeanor" (What it says on the tin.)
Initially the standard was to be "malpractice or neglect of duty." This was removed and replaced with "treason, bribery, or corruption." The word "corruption" was then eliminated. On the floor during debate the suggestion was made to add the term "maladministration." This was rejected as being too vague and the phrase "high crimes and misdemeanors" was adopted in its place. There are many legal scholars who believe this lesser standard is the correct one, however.
4) "Relating to the President's Official Duties" (Impeachable act must relate to official duties)
posted by petebest at 7:20 AM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
Article I § 2 of the United States Constitution gives the House of Representatives the sole power to impeach (make formal charges against) and Article I § 3 gives the Senate the sole power to try impeachments. Article II § 4 of the Constitution provides as follows:
"The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors."
Thus, the operative legal standard to apply to an impeachment of a sitting President is "treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors." There is substantial difference of opinion over the interpretation of these words.
There are essentially four schools of thought concerning the meaning of these words, although there are innumerable subsets within those four categories.
1) "Congressional Interpretation" (Congress do what it want). Frowned on by legal types.
2) "An indictable crime" (Nixon's cronies' favorite interpretation)
3) "Misdemeanor" (What it says on the tin.)
Initially the standard was to be "malpractice or neglect of duty." This was removed and replaced with "treason, bribery, or corruption." The word "corruption" was then eliminated. On the floor during debate the suggestion was made to add the term "maladministration." This was rejected as being too vague and the phrase "high crimes and misdemeanors" was adopted in its place. There are many legal scholars who believe this lesser standard is the correct one, however.
4) "Relating to the President's Official Duties" (Impeachable act must relate to official duties)
posted by petebest at 7:20 AM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
My internal surreality index is experiencing a definite spike today.
posted by diogenes at 7:22 AM on June 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 7:22 AM on June 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
melissasaurus: Bob Vulfov -- As a Senator, a father, a husband and a son, I am completely and utterly appalled by President Trump’s crude and misogynistic comments on Twitter.
Bobby, Bobby my boy, you could have left off those final two words. Let's be honest, he's been awful in any given venue, it's not just what he writes on Twitter.
The only problem with Twitter is that it's almost made for modern media reporting: your words, written down, in 140 characters or less, for all the world to see. No misquoting, no need to summarize, it's all there in black and white. Screenshot that shit and post it online or in a television spot. BAM! Message received, loud and clear.
I kind of get the "locker room talk" bullshit about the Access Hollywood tape, because he didn't know he was being taped, so people say terrible things in private and put on a good show for the public. But Twitter is a public platform, no mistaking it.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:26 AM on June 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
Bobby, Bobby my boy, you could have left off those final two words. Let's be honest, he's been awful in any given venue, it's not just what he writes on Twitter.
The only problem with Twitter is that it's almost made for modern media reporting: your words, written down, in 140 characters or less, for all the world to see. No misquoting, no need to summarize, it's all there in black and white. Screenshot that shit and post it online or in a television spot. BAM! Message received, loud and clear.
I kind of get the "locker room talk" bullshit about the Access Hollywood tape, because he didn't know he was being taped, so people say terrible things in private and put on a good show for the public. But Twitter is a public platform, no mistaking it.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:26 AM on June 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
Are the wheels finally coming off the clown car?
Eric Holder tweets (Raw Story)
“To the career men & women at DOJ/FBI: your actions and integrity will be unfairly questioned,” Holder wrote. “Be prepared, be strong. Duty. Honor. Country.”
posted by adamvasco at 7:28 AM on June 30, 2017 [33 favorites]
Eric Holder tweets (Raw Story)
“To the career men & women at DOJ/FBI: your actions and integrity will be unfairly questioned,” Holder wrote. “Be prepared, be strong. Duty. Honor. Country.”
posted by adamvasco at 7:28 AM on June 30, 2017 [33 favorites]
I'm working on a new post, unless someone has one in the works. Typing a comment on my desktop PC is now like waiting for a webpage to load, circa 1996 via modem.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:31 AM on June 30, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by filthy light thief at 7:31 AM on June 30, 2017 [13 favorites]
I Am a Republican Senator and I Am Appalled by the President's Comments
So are you ready to impeach him? If not, then why do you keep defending him? At what point do you think he is unfit for office?
Those are the questions that should be asked by the media. Those appeals for more civility are completely off the mark.
Or take this quote from the WaPo editorial: “Please just stop,” Republican Sen. Ben Sasse (Neb.) tweeted in response. “This isn’t normal and it’s beneath the dignity of your office.”
Damn right, Mr. Sasse. So are you ready to impeach him? If not, why not? At what point do you think he is unfit for office?
The media aren't doing their job. Possibly because they know that having a toxic president is good for business.
posted by sour cream at 7:31 AM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
So are you ready to impeach him? If not, then why do you keep defending him? At what point do you think he is unfit for office?
Those are the questions that should be asked by the media. Those appeals for more civility are completely off the mark.
Or take this quote from the WaPo editorial: “Please just stop,” Republican Sen. Ben Sasse (Neb.) tweeted in response. “This isn’t normal and it’s beneath the dignity of your office.”
Damn right, Mr. Sasse. So are you ready to impeach him? If not, why not? At what point do you think he is unfit for office?
The media aren't doing their job. Possibly because they know that having a toxic president is good for business.
posted by sour cream at 7:31 AM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
Actually, "Toxic Trump" has a nice ring to it. As does "Creepy Donald".
posted by sour cream at 7:33 AM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by sour cream at 7:33 AM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
Edit: no, it wasn't!
posted by yhbc at 7:34 AM on June 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by yhbc at 7:34 AM on June 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
> My internal surreality index is experiencing a definite spike today.
So often I end up reading big chunks of this thread backwards — I wake up in the morning, think "I'm not going to start the day by reading the u.s. politics thread, nuh-uh, not today!" get out my phone, inevitably give in and load up the u.s. politics thread, and read from the bottom until I hit stuff I've seen before.
It is very, very unsettling reading something like this when:
So often I end up reading big chunks of this thread backwards — I wake up in the morning, think "I'm not going to start the day by reading the u.s. politics thread, nuh-uh, not today!" get out my phone, inevitably give in and load up the u.s. politics thread, and read from the bottom until I hit stuff I've seen before.
It is very, very unsettling reading something like this when:
- I'm not sure what provoked it, and
- yesterday was a day that spiked my own personal internal surreality index
Yo that piece was satire.
Was it? It didn't look that way to me, but I'm not "hip" with the "tweets" you kids love so.
posted by petebest at 7:35 AM on June 30, 2017
Was it? It didn't look that way to me, but I'm not "hip" with the "tweets" you kids love so.
posted by petebest at 7:35 AM on June 30, 2017
In 1805? [Drunkenness] was probably a requirement for the job.
In fact, when Supreme Court justice Samuel Chase was impeached, he chose to be defended by an eminent Baltimore lawyer named Luther Martin. Letitia Stockett writes:
posted by vathek at 7:38 AM on June 30, 2017 [8 favorites]
In fact, when Supreme Court justice Samuel Chase was impeached, he chose to be defended by an eminent Baltimore lawyer named Luther Martin. Letitia Stockett writes:
Slovenly and awkward in person, Martin dribbled snuff down the front of his waistcost, and wiped his nose on his sleeve. He had an eminent nose to wipe, but we more squeamish folk - well, nobody will care where we wipe ours or trouble to record it. Martin was also a heavy drinker; indeed it was such a habit with him that he was unable to plead unless he had his liquor. A client once made the fee contingent upon Martin's promise not to drink. Midway in the case, the great lawyer faltered, stammered and broke down. Calling someone to him he sent the messenger for a pint of brandy and a loaf of bread. The bread he soaked in the liquor and thus ate the stimulant, observing the strict letter of the agreement. Needless to say, he won the case with his usual genius.Eventually drinking and age disabled Martin, and it's perhaps an index of how acceptable drunkenness was in the legal profession in that era that the Maryland state legislature passed a tax (supposedly unique in American history) that required every lawyer to give Martin five dollars annually.
posted by vathek at 7:38 AM on June 30, 2017 [8 favorites]
May I humbly suggest a new rule of thumb:
No one here knows all 535 (voting) members of Congress. Probably there's a very small number of us who can name all 100 Senators, even.
So if you read something that (looks like it) is by Senator Unfamiliar Name or Representative Never Heard Of-Her, please take a few seconds to google the name to make sure A) it's not satire, regardless of whether it is labeled so, and 2) isn't about some state official who represents twelve people and a cat who gets her picture taken in the voting booth every year.
posted by Etrigan at 7:39 AM on June 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
No one here knows all 535 (voting) members of Congress. Probably there's a very small number of us who can name all 100 Senators, even.
So if you read something that (looks like it) is by Senator Unfamiliar Name or Representative Never Heard Of-Her, please take a few seconds to google the name to make sure A) it's not satire, regardless of whether it is labeled so, and 2) isn't about some state official who represents twelve people and a cat who gets her picture taken in the voting booth every year.
posted by Etrigan at 7:39 AM on June 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
It appears on the "official" Twitter page of who I recognize as Eric Holder here.
That's not satire. That's where we are. Stay Strong DOJ/FBI. Remember country.
Edit: ah, the satire was the Bob Lolfurd, Republican Senator article, not the Eric Holder tweet. Apologies, please resume your disbelief
posted by petebest at 7:40 AM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
That's not satire. That's where we are. Stay Strong DOJ/FBI. Remember country.
Edit: ah, the satire was the Bob Lolfurd, Republican Senator article, not the Eric Holder tweet. Apologies, please resume your disbelief
posted by petebest at 7:40 AM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yo that piece was satire
I really wouldn't fucking know anymore.
That a so called civilized country could even consider having this arsehole in charge completely beggars belief in the first place.
posted by adamvasco at 7:40 AM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
I really wouldn't fucking know anymore.
That a so called civilized country could even consider having this arsehole in charge completely beggars belief in the first place.
posted by adamvasco at 7:40 AM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
"Yo that piece was satire."
Was it? It didn't look that way to me
It looks to you like Bob Vulfov is a senator?
I mean there wasn't just the word "satire" and the two paragraphs of jokes quoted in the comment, there was a byline. bob vulfov's byline. jesus. senator bob fulvov indeed.
please take a few seconds to google the name to make sure A) it's not satire, regardless of whether it is labeled so
not bad advice in general but can't stress too stressfully that it was so labeled. also, it was so written.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:40 AM on June 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
Was it? It didn't look that way to me
It looks to you like Bob Vulfov is a senator?
I mean there wasn't just the word "satire" and the two paragraphs of jokes quoted in the comment, there was a byline. bob vulfov's byline. jesus. senator bob fulvov indeed.
please take a few seconds to google the name to make sure A) it's not satire, regardless of whether it is labeled so
not bad advice in general but can't stress too stressfully that it was so labeled. also, it was so written.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:40 AM on June 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
Bob Vulvov's Vulva Love Vlog
posted by tonycpsu at 7:42 AM on June 30, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 7:42 AM on June 30, 2017 [23 favorites]
Ladies and Gentlemen: Our Founding *hic* Fathers.
posted by notyou at 7:44 AM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by notyou at 7:44 AM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
Vulvov was satire. Holder was not. Those tweets from the President of the United States were real. This fucking timeline, let me tell you...
posted by RedOrGreen at 7:44 AM on June 30, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by RedOrGreen at 7:44 AM on June 30, 2017 [18 favorites]
I am SO FRUSTRATED that the Joe and Mika story is getting more coverage than the evidence of collusion!
This is just like when the "Russian hackers are trying to sabotage to Democrats" statement came out from the Director of National Intelligence, but the Pussy Tape came out later the same day, and no one even heard about the DNI statement.
Boorishness will blow over. It will not permanently damage him, because everyone already knew he was a boor.
Disloyalty to America should be a bigger story!
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:44 AM on June 30, 2017 [15 favorites]
This is just like when the "Russian hackers are trying to sabotage to Democrats" statement came out from the Director of National Intelligence, but the Pussy Tape came out later the same day, and no one even heard about the DNI statement.
Boorishness will blow over. It will not permanently damage him, because everyone already knew he was a boor.
Disloyalty to America should be a bigger story!
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:44 AM on June 30, 2017 [15 favorites]
Gingrich is right, he and McConnell just think of the "bi" there as meaning "Republican" and "Tea Party".
I once had an extended discussion with a young fellow who had a vision of the America he wanted to bring about that had three political parties, all Conservative. One religious, one business oriented & I forget the third. This was at the height of Bush's terms.
posted by scalefree at 7:45 AM on June 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
I once had an extended discussion with a young fellow who had a vision of the America he wanted to bring about that had three political parties, all Conservative. One religious, one business oriented & I forget the third. This was at the height of Bush's terms.
posted by scalefree at 7:45 AM on June 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
THE PIECE FROM PASTE MAGAZINE ABOUT "BOB VULFOV" IS SATIRE; THE PIECE FROM RAW STORY ABOUT ERIC HOLDER IS NOT SATIRE. CAN WE MOVE ON NOW?
posted by neroli at 7:47 AM on June 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by neroli at 7:47 AM on June 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
One religious, one business oriented & I forget the third
pro-vaping, libertarian
posted by thelonius at 7:48 AM on June 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
pro-vaping, libertarian
posted by thelonius at 7:48 AM on June 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
Gingrich is right, he and McConnell just think of the "bi" there as meaning "Republican" and "Tea Party".
Oh, we got both kinds, we got country and western.
posted by uncleozzy at 7:49 AM on June 30, 2017 [19 favorites]
Oh, we got both kinds, we got country and western.
posted by uncleozzy at 7:49 AM on June 30, 2017 [19 favorites]
Marcy Wheeler: Democrats Need a Plan for National Voter Protection
Even as three different committees in Congress investigate how Russia tampered with our election last year, the Trump Administration and Congress are taking steps to tamper with the next election themselves.posted by tonycpsu at 7:55 AM on June 30, 2017 [50 favorites]
The House Appropriations Committee just defunded the Election Assistance Commission, which is the only federal entity to help states prevent getting hacked.
The head of Trump’s “Election Integrity” Commission, Kris Kobach — fresh off court sanctions for lying to a court — sent a letter to all the Secretaries of State, asking them for their voting rolls (including party affiliation).
And then Trump named the loathsome Hans Van Spaskovsky, who has a history of suppressing the vote of people of color, to the Commission. [...]
This is an opportunity to lay out standards, within the framework permitted by federalism, for real election integrity. That might include things like:Two noted racists are about to try to rebrand cheating as “integrity.” It’s time for the Democrats to do more than simply resist, but instead to lay out what real election integrity would look like in this country.
- Cybersecurity standards for both machines and electoral rolls
- Standards for a paper trail on voting
- Rules limiting how and when purges may happen
- Affirmative restrictions on identity requirements that impose financial and time costs
YOU GOT SOME SATIRE IN THE THREAD AND NOW I DON'T KNOW IF I'M MEANT TO DEFEND THE FBI OR START EATING IRISH BABIES
posted by um at 7:55 AM on June 30, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by um at 7:55 AM on June 30, 2017 [25 favorites]
What I just heard on tv about the South Korean president but first assumed was about our president: "Later today they'll be in the Rose Garden, and the President will speak in his native language followed by the English translation."
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:59 AM on June 30, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:59 AM on June 30, 2017 [25 favorites]
1) "Congressional Interpretation" (Congress do what it want). Frowned on by legal types
What legal types think doesn't matter.
If a majority of the House votes to impeach you, you are impeached, even if the sole charge is that you are ugly and your momma dresses you funny. If 2/3 of the Senate then votes to remove you from office, you are removed.
Even if every senator voting to convict announces before their vote that (a) they don't believe the thing you are charged with is a crime or even bad behavior, and (b) they don't even think you did what you were charged with but kind of generally think you're an asshole so fuck you, you are removed.
There is no possibility of review or appeal, so whatever the House and Senate do is final and a-okay. It doesn't matter in the slightest what legal types think. It doesn't matter in the slightest what the Department of Justice or Attorney General think. It doesn't matter in the slightest what judges think. It doesn't even matter in the slightest what the chief justice, who would be presiding over the trial of a president, thinks because the Senate can overrule any decision he makes my simple majority vote.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:05 AM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
What legal types think doesn't matter.
If a majority of the House votes to impeach you, you are impeached, even if the sole charge is that you are ugly and your momma dresses you funny. If 2/3 of the Senate then votes to remove you from office, you are removed.
Even if every senator voting to convict announces before their vote that (a) they don't believe the thing you are charged with is a crime or even bad behavior, and (b) they don't even think you did what you were charged with but kind of generally think you're an asshole so fuck you, you are removed.
There is no possibility of review or appeal, so whatever the House and Senate do is final and a-okay. It doesn't matter in the slightest what legal types think. It doesn't matter in the slightest what the Department of Justice or Attorney General think. It doesn't matter in the slightest what judges think. It doesn't even matter in the slightest what the chief justice, who would be presiding over the trial of a president, thinks because the Senate can overrule any decision he makes my simple majority vote.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:05 AM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
The time when Americans drank all day long.
"Americans drink an average of 2.3 gallons of alcohol per year compared to 7.3 gallons in 1830."
posted by notyou at 11:02 PM on June 30 [7 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]
Always knew I was an originalist.
posted by saysthis at 8:12 AM on June 30, 2017 [15 favorites]
"Americans drink an average of 2.3 gallons of alcohol per year compared to 7.3 gallons in 1830."
posted by notyou at 11:02 PM on June 30 [7 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]
Always knew I was an originalist.
posted by saysthis at 8:12 AM on June 30, 2017 [15 favorites]
Thanks, filthy light thief!
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:12 AM on June 30, 2017
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:12 AM on June 30, 2017
I'm so glad we had this time together
Just to have a laugh, or sing a song
Seems we just get started, and before you know it
Comes the time we have to say
New Thread
*tugs ear*
posted by petebest at 8:45 AM on June 30, 2017 [12 favorites]
Just to have a laugh, or sing a song
Seems we just get started, and before you know it
Comes the time we have to say
New Thread
*tugs ear*
posted by petebest at 8:45 AM on June 30, 2017 [12 favorites]
SCOTUS kept the travel ban injunction in place for close relatives of US persons. Banning a Somali citizen for example, from visiting their dying grandmother in America, on the basis that a grandmother isn't a "close relative" (unlike a step-sister) is so petty, absurd, and mindless it seems like contempt of court.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:12 AM on June 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:12 AM on June 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
YOU GOT SOME SATIRE IN THE THREAD AND NOW I DON'T KNOW IF I'M MEANT TO DEFEND THE FBI OR START EATING IRISH BABIES
Why you all gotta have this attachment to binary thinking? Hold a charity fundraiser irish baby potluck for the FBI.
posted by phearlez at 9:29 AM on June 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
Why you all gotta have this attachment to binary thinking? Hold a charity fundraiser irish baby potluck for the FBI.
posted by phearlez at 9:29 AM on June 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
I was v busy doing an other-duties-as-assigned-type work thing all day today, and I'm just now getting caught up with this thread. I don't eat a lot of sweet stuff, but just let me take a few deep breaths.
...
Aight, on to the next one.
posted by box at 6:31 PM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
...
Aight, on to the next one.
posted by box at 6:31 PM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
« Older Trouble afoot | "No one is going to assume the big football player... Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by bardophile at 4:01 PM on June 20, 2017 [2 favorites]