The frogurt is also cursed.
August 11, 2017 12:41 PM Subscribe
While Trump continues to ratchet up threats with North Korea, the military is not actually "fully in place" for such a conflict.
After Putin expels 755 U.S. diplomats and technical personnel, , the U.S. President expresses gratitude.
Meanwhile, Special Prosecutor Mueller's investigation, having already targeted the short-tenured National Security Advisor General Flynn, has also conducted a nighttime raid on the home of former Trump Campaign Director Paul Manafort and subpoenaed his bank records. Many speculate that Flynn and Manafort are just the first to be broken in an investigation that could lead to bigger fish.
A new thread, and a new drawing, this time of creepy dead eyed administration hack Stephen Miller.
Please feel free to share, download, what have you.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 12:45 PM on August 11, 2017 [70 favorites]
Please feel free to share, download, what have you.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 12:45 PM on August 11, 2017 [70 favorites]
There's an end to all of this, I'm sure. But at what cost?
posted by tommasz at 12:48 PM on August 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by tommasz at 12:48 PM on August 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
The best line from the SNL summer update: "Well, it’s been a crazy year these past few weeks."
posted by Melismata at 12:49 PM on August 11, 2017 [127 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 12:49 PM on August 11, 2017 [127 favorites]
The home page of the Washington Post has a graphic with sort of heatmaps around major US cities and a headline "Want to get away? Here’s how far you can get if you leave America’s largest cities at rush hour." I was totally thinking it was going to be how far you can get if NK launches a missile strike.
posted by snofoam at 12:50 PM on August 11, 2017 [35 favorites]
posted by snofoam at 12:50 PM on August 11, 2017 [35 favorites]
This is thread #124 about Potus45.
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:51 PM on August 11, 2017 [37 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:51 PM on August 11, 2017 [37 favorites]
I would really like to have a lovely scoop o'clock today. It's my birthday (are we still doing birthdays in these threads?), and while obviously I would like INDICTMENTS FOR ALL, or perhaps, a job quietly shuffling papers in Bob Mueller's office, I understand those are unlikely at this current juncture. So any other hideously damaging to the Trump administration scoops that are not about our imminent nuclear demise would be A+ b-day presents.
Anyway, I also spent a few minutes yesterday dreamily contemplating the raid on Paul Manafort's house, which is preferable to imagining any varieties of nuclear annihilation, or burning with anger about just who we have put in charge of the goddamn nuclear arsenal. Would recommend this really quite exquisite investigative imagine over contemplating your own mortality and/or the incalculable enormity of nuclear warfare.
posted by yasaman at 12:51 PM on August 11, 2017 [23 favorites]
Anyway, I also spent a few minutes yesterday dreamily contemplating the raid on Paul Manafort's house, which is preferable to imagining any varieties of nuclear annihilation, or burning with anger about just who we have put in charge of the goddamn nuclear arsenal. Would recommend this really quite exquisite investigative imagine over contemplating your own mortality and/or the incalculable enormity of nuclear warfare.
posted by yasaman at 12:51 PM on August 11, 2017 [23 favorites]
This is thread #124 about Potus45.
Current evens count: -37,534.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:53 PM on August 11, 2017 [51 favorites]
Current evens count: -37,534.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:53 PM on August 11, 2017 [51 favorites]
"Well, it’s been a crazy year these past few weeks."
It certainly feels like I'm aging at the rate of a year every week.
"Yeah, he's an old boy. Only 35 human years, but in Trump years he's pushing a hundred."
"At least he's had a good run."
"Not for the past 15 Trump years he hasn't."
posted by Behemoth at 12:59 PM on August 11, 2017 [44 favorites]
It certainly feels like I'm aging at the rate of a year every week.
"Yeah, he's an old boy. Only 35 human years, but in Trump years he's pushing a hundred."
"At least he's had a good run."
"Not for the past 15 Trump years he hasn't."
posted by Behemoth at 12:59 PM on August 11, 2017 [44 favorites]
The home page of the Washington Post has a graphic with sort of heatmaps around major US cities and a headline "Want to get away?
The Tampa Bay Times had a similar story this morning. Except it was a heat map of how many of us will die in a nuclear strike in CentCom/ SoCom.
Happy Friday everyone!
posted by photoslob at 1:00 PM on August 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
The Tampa Bay Times had a similar story this morning. Except it was a heat map of how many of us will die in a nuclear strike in CentCom/ SoCom.
Happy Friday everyone!
posted by photoslob at 1:00 PM on August 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
The Reagan era in general was permeated with fear of a nuclear war. Western pop culture was fairly obsessive about it, with movies and other media focused on the topic. It didn't really end until the end of the Cold War.
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:00 PM on August 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:00 PM on August 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
Hard to say, witchen. The previous presidents who dealt with nuclear war (Kennedy, Reagan) actually knew what they were doing as politicians and cared about serving their country. And, it was before the internet. Personally, I think that the internet is fueling a lot of artificial fear about someone who's just a stupid blowhard and isn't being taken seriously by any world leaders anywhere.
posted by Melismata at 1:05 PM on August 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 1:05 PM on August 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
From the previous thread: On Thursday, NRA spokeswoman Dana Loesch sent out a tweet storm explaining why the NRA didn’t stand up for Castile, saying it was because Castile was in the possession of “a controlled substance” and a firearm when he was pulled over.
“Which is illegal. Stop lying,” she tweeted.
Rep. Kathleen Rice (D-NY) retweeted Loesch’s statement, asking if Castile had been a white man, would the NRA have stayed silent on the matter.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:49 PM
Thank you! You just cleared up something that was confusing the hell out of me. I was the person Dana responded to about Philando Castile. At one point someone linked to an article about Kathleen Rice accusing her of something, something (long legal petition) but also seemed to be accusing me of being Kathleen Rice. I could not for the life figure out where the name Rice was coming from or why they thought I was her.
I woke up to over a 1000 mentions on my twitter feed and had to block any mentions with the word NRA, gun, Castile, or @DLoesch.
Also from the previous post the story about Rep. Buddy Rich wanting to stop funding to test rape kits (the same guy who wanted to snatch a knot in Lisa Mulkowski's ass) reminds me of Putin using sick orphans as a bargaining chip to get what he wants. In this case not only is the congressman using raped women as a bargaining chip, he would be insuring that rapists stay on the street to rape again. Nice. Classy.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:05 PM on August 11, 2017 [71 favorites]
“Which is illegal. Stop lying,” she tweeted.
Rep. Kathleen Rice (D-NY) retweeted Loesch’s statement, asking if Castile had been a white man, would the NRA have stayed silent on the matter.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:49 PM
Thank you! You just cleared up something that was confusing the hell out of me. I was the person Dana responded to about Philando Castile. At one point someone linked to an article about Kathleen Rice accusing her of something, something (long legal petition) but also seemed to be accusing me of being Kathleen Rice. I could not for the life figure out where the name Rice was coming from or why they thought I was her.
I woke up to over a 1000 mentions on my twitter feed and had to block any mentions with the word NRA, gun, Castile, or @DLoesch.
Also from the previous post the story about Rep. Buddy Rich wanting to stop funding to test rape kits (the same guy who wanted to snatch a knot in Lisa Mulkowski's ass) reminds me of Putin using sick orphans as a bargaining chip to get what he wants. In this case not only is the congressman using raped women as a bargaining chip, he would be insuring that rapists stay on the street to rape again. Nice. Classy.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:05 PM on August 11, 2017 [71 favorites]
I really hope the Mueller investigation doesn't end up taking down a lot of little fish and maybe one or two bigger sacrificial lambs while Trump and his inner circle get away.
posted by Sangermaine at 1:05 PM on August 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Sangermaine at 1:05 PM on August 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
I knew Trump was underqualified in every possible way, and that he'd be more inclined to hire sycophants and cronies than the best people for the job, despite his crowing. What does surprise me is that not a single Trump-whisperer has emerged. Is there no one who has his ear to even warn off the most disastrous turns of phrase?
Like, I'd think someone could appeal to his rapacious greed with regard to North Korea. Just explain that NK's missiles are largely pointed at Seoul, and there's a big ol' cluster of Trump condos in Seoul and Busan.
Or distract him, perhaps. Steer him by his desperate need for approval, and point out that the American people don't care about North Korea. "Sir, they need to know about jobs. Tell them how we're bringing jobs back to the Rust Belt!" If he's tweeting about coal and Morning Joe, he's not tweeting warmongering.
Yeah, he watches a lot of Fox News, but there has to be some sway back and forth. Threaten the folks over at Fox even: "Look, here's what you say about issues X, Y, and Z. Cross us on this, and you're not getting any interviews for a month. Play nice, and it's good for all of us!"
Is this stuff so hard? Is he really such a fucking wildcard that he can't even be steered? Or are intelligent people so unwilling to work with him that he's only got idiots and fanatics willing to try to steer that ship?
posted by explosion at 1:06 PM on August 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
Like, I'd think someone could appeal to his rapacious greed with regard to North Korea. Just explain that NK's missiles are largely pointed at Seoul, and there's a big ol' cluster of Trump condos in Seoul and Busan.
Or distract him, perhaps. Steer him by his desperate need for approval, and point out that the American people don't care about North Korea. "Sir, they need to know about jobs. Tell them how we're bringing jobs back to the Rust Belt!" If he's tweeting about coal and Morning Joe, he's not tweeting warmongering.
Yeah, he watches a lot of Fox News, but there has to be some sway back and forth. Threaten the folks over at Fox even: "Look, here's what you say about issues X, Y, and Z. Cross us on this, and you're not getting any interviews for a month. Play nice, and it's good for all of us!"
Is this stuff so hard? Is he really such a fucking wildcard that he can't even be steered? Or are intelligent people so unwilling to work with him that he's only got idiots and fanatics willing to try to steer that ship?
posted by explosion at 1:06 PM on August 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
The people in Seoul are not fully in place for Trump's diversionary war either.
posted by Bee'sWing at 1:06 PM on August 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Bee'sWing at 1:06 PM on August 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
I take a short nap and wake up to breaking news Trump dick-waving what-the-fuckery?
The forget is also cursed.
That's bad. It's all bad
posted by Room 641-A at 1:09 PM on August 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
The forget is also cursed.
That's bad. It's all bad
posted by Room 641-A at 1:09 PM on August 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
the last time I remember nukes in the zeitgeist to a great degree was during the Pakistan/India standoff in 2002.
I feel like all this nuke hype is going to lead to the real tragedy, conventional war on the peninsula.
posted by angrycat at 1:09 PM on August 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
I feel like all this nuke hype is going to lead to the real tragedy, conventional war on the peninsula.
posted by angrycat at 1:09 PM on August 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Is there no one who has his ear to even warn off the most disastrous turns of phrase?
Apparently he's not consulting anyone when he makes these statements. He's just saying whatever happens to come to mind at any moment.
It's okay, though. God's OK with U.S. bombing North Korea.
posted by Sangermaine at 1:09 PM on August 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Apparently he's not consulting anyone when he makes these statements. He's just saying whatever happens to come to mind at any moment.
It's okay, though. God's OK with U.S. bombing North Korea.
posted by Sangermaine at 1:09 PM on August 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Pop Culture Note: Thread title is an awesome shoutout to the classic Simpsons episode Treehouse of Horror III (Season 4, Episode 5), specifically the last story, "Dial 'Z' for Zombies".
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:11 PM on August 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:11 PM on August 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
I just got back from my lunch break and another guy at the nearby burger joint was watching some video on the history of nuclear bombs playing loudly on his phone. All I wanted was a meal. All I wanted was to get away from the threat of annihilation for half an hour. But apparently this is life now.
posted by downtohisturtles at 1:11 PM on August 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by downtohisturtles at 1:11 PM on August 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
Meanwhile, Special Prosecutor Mueller's investigation, having already targeted the short-tenured National Security Advisor General Flynn, has also conducted a nighttime raid on the home of former Trump Campaign Director Paul Manafort and subpoenaed his bank records.
One would think that after Trump warned Mueller not to go after his own financial dealings that Trump might have learned not to make easily called bluffs, but here we are.
It's also useful to remember, as several pointed out last thread, that a subpoena is one thing, but for a search warrant, one has to convince a judge that there is probable cause to believe that evidence of a crime exists.
posted by Gelatin at 1:11 PM on August 11, 2017 [18 favorites]
One would think that after Trump warned Mueller not to go after his own financial dealings that Trump might have learned not to make easily called bluffs, but here we are.
It's also useful to remember, as several pointed out last thread, that a subpoena is one thing, but for a search warrant, one has to convince a judge that there is probable cause to believe that evidence of a crime exists.
posted by Gelatin at 1:11 PM on August 11, 2017 [18 favorites]
The Tampa Bay Times had a similar story this morning. Except it was a heat map of how many of us will die in a nuclear strike in CentCom/ SoCom.
I am enough of a jerkbag that all I can see is that they misspelled "radius" as "radias." Twice.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:11 PM on August 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
I am enough of a jerkbag that all I can see is that they misspelled "radius" as "radias." Twice.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:11 PM on August 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Pop Culture Note
Addendum to which being that I think we are all implicitly Homer, asking if we can go now.
posted by cortex at 1:12 PM on August 11, 2017 [31 favorites]
Addendum to which being that I think we are all implicitly Homer, asking if we can go now.
posted by cortex at 1:12 PM on August 11, 2017 [31 favorites]
I think Trump's goal is to goad North Korea into acting. Then the U.S. will move with relative impunity.
This is from the days before the 2003 war with Iraq.
Quoting bits of the book Hubris by Michael Isikoff and David Corn as presented here.
It also envisioned staging a phony incident that could be used to start a war. A small group of Iraqi exiles would be flown into Iraq by helicopter to seize an isolated military base near the Saudi border. They then would take to the airwaves and announce a coup was under way. If Saddam responded by flying troops south, his aircraft would be shot down by U.S. fighter planes patrolling the no-fly zones ...
Also from the above link, this time referring to an NYT article.
During a private two-hour meeting in the Oval Office on Jan. 31, 2003, he [Bush, Jr.] made clear to Prime Minister Tony Blair of Britain that he was determined to invade Iraq without the second resolution, or even if international arms inspectors failed to find unconventional weapons. . .
Mr. Bush talked about several ways to provoke a confrontation. . .
Trump's next step will not be to launch a nuclear weapon. It will be to goad North Korea into making an irrevocable action perhaps by staging an incident.
I wonder if there is a way to call that out in advance. Maybe someone could write a good article in how wars are staged: blowing up the Gulf of Tonkin incident (which was probably nothing), blowing up the Maine, lying about the Lusitania (which was not a staged incident). . .
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:13 PM on August 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
This is from the days before the 2003 war with Iraq.
Quoting bits of the book Hubris by Michael Isikoff and David Corn as presented here.
It also envisioned staging a phony incident that could be used to start a war. A small group of Iraqi exiles would be flown into Iraq by helicopter to seize an isolated military base near the Saudi border. They then would take to the airwaves and announce a coup was under way. If Saddam responded by flying troops south, his aircraft would be shot down by U.S. fighter planes patrolling the no-fly zones ...
Also from the above link, this time referring to an NYT article.
During a private two-hour meeting in the Oval Office on Jan. 31, 2003, he [Bush, Jr.] made clear to Prime Minister Tony Blair of Britain that he was determined to invade Iraq without the second resolution, or even if international arms inspectors failed to find unconventional weapons. . .
Mr. Bush talked about several ways to provoke a confrontation. . .
Trump's next step will not be to launch a nuclear weapon. It will be to goad North Korea into making an irrevocable action perhaps by staging an incident.
I wonder if there is a way to call that out in advance. Maybe someone could write a good article in how wars are staged: blowing up the Gulf of Tonkin incident (which was probably nothing), blowing up the Maine, lying about the Lusitania (which was not a staged incident). . .
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:13 PM on August 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
Yes, Muellergiving better be way awesomer than Fitzmas.
posted by frecklefaerie at 1:14 PM on August 11, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by frecklefaerie at 1:14 PM on August 11, 2017 [22 favorites]
Someone needs to slip Trump a fake phone that can't send out tweets, it just makes him think it does. He wouldn't know the difference and it would improve our situation immensely.
posted by Sangermaine at 1:14 PM on August 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Sangermaine at 1:14 PM on August 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
Psst! Hey, future Atom Eyes:
Remember how blissfully naïve and innocent we were when we made this comment a few days back? Can you believe all the crazy shit that's gone down since then—what an absolutely electrifying rollercoaster of emotions it's been?
Look at us: sitting there at our desk, posting our silly little comment, dumb as a clam, with no idea whatsoever of the bizarre, mind-bending shit that's about to go down. Man, what a strange ride it's been, eh pardner?
Well, I guess present me will catch up with you in about a week or so and we can maybe split a six-pack and compare notes. Until then, keep on rockin' in the free world, baby!
posted by Atom Eyes at 1:15 PM on August 11, 2017 [31 favorites]
Remember how blissfully naïve and innocent we were when we made this comment a few days back? Can you believe all the crazy shit that's gone down since then—what an absolutely electrifying rollercoaster of emotions it's been?
Look at us: sitting there at our desk, posting our silly little comment, dumb as a clam, with no idea whatsoever of the bizarre, mind-bending shit that's about to go down. Man, what a strange ride it's been, eh pardner?
Well, I guess present me will catch up with you in about a week or so and we can maybe split a six-pack and compare notes. Until then, keep on rockin' in the free world, baby!
posted by Atom Eyes at 1:15 PM on August 11, 2017 [31 favorites]
I loved that little bit about the WSJ trying to figure out what the markets would do in the event of a nuclear war. Well, what they'd probably do is cease to exist entirely.
posted by azpenguin at 1:15 PM on August 11, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by azpenguin at 1:15 PM on August 11, 2017 [28 favorites]
Update from Emergent US Left : Now that the convention is very much over, some wrap ups and thinkpieces have emerged!
Meet the young Socialists of Color leading the revolution
Are the Socialists Here To Ruin Everything?
Four Days with the Emerging Left
posted by The Whelk at 1:16 PM on August 11, 2017 [26 favorites]
Meet the young Socialists of Color leading the revolution
Are the Socialists Here To Ruin Everything?
Four Days with the Emerging Left
posted by The Whelk at 1:16 PM on August 11, 2017 [26 favorites]
Mueller is way too savvy to release anything on an August Friday afternoon. I wouldn't wait up.
posted by praemunire at 1:17 PM on August 11, 2017
posted by praemunire at 1:17 PM on August 11, 2017
The effect of one nuclear bomb on the US economy is probably equivalent to one hurricane.
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:18 PM on August 11, 2017
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:18 PM on August 11, 2017
Treehouse of Horror III (Season 4, Episode 5), specifically the last story, "Dial 'Z' for Zombies".
I will fight to the death in support of the hypothesis "Season 04 was the BEST season"
posted by mikelieman at 1:18 PM on August 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
I will fight to the death in support of the hypothesis "Season 04 was the BEST season"
posted by mikelieman at 1:18 PM on August 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Mueller is way too savvy to release anything on an August Friday afternoon. I wouldn't wait up.
Muller-mas comes in September!
posted by mikelieman at 1:19 PM on August 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Muller-mas comes in September!
posted by mikelieman at 1:19 PM on August 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
The effect of one nuclear bomb on the US economy is probably equivalent to one hurricane.
You are misinformed about nuclear bombs.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 1:19 PM on August 11, 2017 [94 favorites]
You are misinformed about nuclear bombs.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 1:19 PM on August 11, 2017 [94 favorites]
American Bridge @American_Bridge
.@SenDeanHeller is "pleased" with the defeat of the Senate's health care bill ... but he voted for it in the first place #nvsen
(video of news interview at tweet)
posted by Room 641-A at 1:19 PM on August 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
.@SenDeanHeller is "pleased" with the defeat of the Senate's health care bill ... but he voted for it in the first place #nvsen
(video of news interview at tweet)
posted by Room 641-A at 1:19 PM on August 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
So bear with me here, because I don't want to seem like a Trump apologist. And I agree that "thanking" Putin for lowering the payroll costs is both stupid and unbelievably ignorant. But I wonder if this is one context in which the usual cry of "He never criticizes Putin" is just slightly off base? Does it seem possible to you that he is not actually defending Putin, but is trying to play off a "you can't hurt me nyah nyah" attitude toward him?
posted by janey47 at 1:20 PM on August 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by janey47 at 1:20 PM on August 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Someone needs to slip Trump a fake phone that can't send out tweets
When I was on DelphiForums 15+ years ago, one of their moderator tools was the "bozo" setting: persons designated as "bozo" could post, and see their own posts, but none of the general users could see them, only moderators.
It was a tremendously useful forum tool - a "bozo" didn't have any indication that it was done, unless they logged out to check if their posts were appearing. (DelphiForums were public view.) So bozos would continue to post trolling comments in threads, and gradually be disappointed that nobody was taking the bait, and wander off.
Twitter needs to bozo the president.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:20 PM on August 11, 2017 [155 favorites]
When I was on DelphiForums 15+ years ago, one of their moderator tools was the "bozo" setting: persons designated as "bozo" could post, and see their own posts, but none of the general users could see them, only moderators.
It was a tremendously useful forum tool - a "bozo" didn't have any indication that it was done, unless they logged out to check if their posts were appearing. (DelphiForums were public view.) So bozos would continue to post trolling comments in threads, and gradually be disappointed that nobody was taking the bait, and wander off.
Twitter needs to bozo the president.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:20 PM on August 11, 2017 [155 favorites]
Treehouse of Horror III (Season 4, Episode 5), specifically the last story, "Dial 'Z' for Zombies".
I will fight to the death in support of the hypothesis "Season 04 was the BEST season"
Original air date: October 29, 1992
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:21 PM on August 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
I will fight to the death in support of the hypothesis "Season 04 was the BEST season"
Original air date: October 29, 1992
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:21 PM on August 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Um...Nah, it's a reference to the first one "Clown Without Pity"
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 1:22 PM on August 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 1:22 PM on August 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
Re: "bozo," it's called "shadow banning" or "stealth banning" now, and yeah, if they could keep some bots able to view the President to reply so that he didn't realize immediately that something is wrong, what a glorious solution.
Then again, Twitter has made it very very clear they have an anti-moderation policy. They punish people for being harassed.
posted by explosion at 1:23 PM on August 11, 2017 [20 favorites]
Then again, Twitter has made it very very clear they have an anti-moderation policy. They punish people for being harassed.
posted by explosion at 1:23 PM on August 11, 2017 [20 favorites]
Um...Nah, it's a reference to the first one "Clown Without Pity"
D'oh!
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:23 PM on August 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
D'oh!
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:23 PM on August 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
I think contemporary terminology for the bozo setting is "shadowban."
I recall ten million threads ago people coming up with the idea of providing a fake twitter environment for 45 — he sees his tweets, he sees (automatically generated) responses to the tweets, he thinks the world can see his tweets, no one can see his tweets. IIRC this conversation then moved toward discussing the construction of a fake oval office, the hiring of former fox news anchors to produce fake television to show him, and in general the potemkinization (or phildickification) of 45's entire environment.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:24 PM on August 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
I recall ten million threads ago people coming up with the idea of providing a fake twitter environment for 45 — he sees his tweets, he sees (automatically generated) responses to the tweets, he thinks the world can see his tweets, no one can see his tweets. IIRC this conversation then moved toward discussing the construction of a fake oval office, the hiring of former fox news anchors to produce fake television to show him, and in general the potemkinization (or phildickification) of 45's entire environment.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:24 PM on August 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
The effect of one nuclear bomb on the US economy is probably equivalent to one hurricane.
The children of women who were pregnant in New Orleans during Katrina are not being born with cancer. The buildings that are standing are not going to be toxic to inhabit for the next few generations. The gardens that were flattened are not now too toxic to grow food for humans to eat.
There is absolutely no amount of hurricane damage that is comparable to even one nuclear bomb. The main threat is not the firestorm and body count; it's the generations-to-centuries of invisible poison.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:25 PM on August 11, 2017 [74 favorites]
The children of women who were pregnant in New Orleans during Katrina are not being born with cancer. The buildings that are standing are not going to be toxic to inhabit for the next few generations. The gardens that were flattened are not now too toxic to grow food for humans to eat.
There is absolutely no amount of hurricane damage that is comparable to even one nuclear bomb. The main threat is not the firestorm and body count; it's the generations-to-centuries of invisible poison.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:25 PM on August 11, 2017 [74 favorites]
YCTAB, that seems like an awful lot of work. Wouldn't be easier to just impeach him instead? /s
posted by Melismata at 1:26 PM on August 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 1:26 PM on August 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
I've been shocked, since the election, at learning how little even educated, engaged acquaintances younger than, say, late 30s know about nuclear war and nuclear weapons. I've spoken personally with three people who had never heard of MAD, and thought that nuclear ordnance was just kind of bigger and worser than non-nuclear ordnance.
This scares the shit out of me, when I extrapolate from that--do we have entire, voting demographics who don't really see the big deal?
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 1:26 PM on August 11, 2017 [64 favorites]
This scares the shit out of me, when I extrapolate from that--do we have entire, voting demographics who don't really see the big deal?
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 1:26 PM on August 11, 2017 [64 favorites]
Also, when a hurricane makes landfall there's no risk that it will lead to the rest of the world launching their own hurricanes at each other until everywhere on Earth is a windstorm.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:26 PM on August 11, 2017 [73 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:26 PM on August 11, 2017 [73 favorites]
He's apparently still using that old-ass Android that every security service on the planet no doubt has access to. Can't someone just uninstall Twitter and install some bozo setting Twitter clone app?
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:27 PM on August 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:27 PM on August 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
That's bad
but you get your choice of topping!
posted by entropicamericana at 1:27 PM on August 11, 2017 [21 favorites]
but you get your choice of topping!
posted by entropicamericana at 1:27 PM on August 11, 2017 [21 favorites]
The effect of one nuclear bomb on the US economy is probably equivalent to one hurricane.
At altitude for the best EMP over the US of A? Sure, you keep thinking the above.
posted by rough ashlar at 1:28 PM on August 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
At altitude for the best EMP over the US of A? Sure, you keep thinking the above.
posted by rough ashlar at 1:28 PM on August 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
I've been shocked, since the election, at learning how little even educated, engaged acquaintances younger than, say, late 30s know about nuclear war and nuclear weapons. I've spoken personally with three people who had never heard of MAD, and thought that nuclear ordnance was just kind of bigger and worser than non-nuclear ordnance.
Seriously?!
Well, that just totally adds to my sense of existential despair, so thanks, I guess.
posted by infinitywaltz at 1:28 PM on August 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Seriously?!
Well, that just totally adds to my sense of existential despair, so thanks, I guess.
posted by infinitywaltz at 1:28 PM on August 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Thanks for the new thread.
The Cold War is a natural point of reference for the present moment, but it's an imperfect one. In those times, you had two adversarial superpowers, each with thousands of nukes (and the ability to deliver them) – enough firepower to literally annihilate each other. And, although leaders on both sides were hardly angels, at least they were rational. No one wanted a nuclear war. Mutually assured destruction is a fucked-up doctrine, but it's a doctrine that's motivated by a sincere desire to avoid said destruction.
The present moment is not that.
In the present moment, you have one superpower, and one dysfunctional backwater of a nation who might be able to deliver one or two nukes before getting pulverized into the sea (and they know this). And instead of rational actors, you have two dudes with profound personality disorders, both doing their best to escalate the situation. They're two drunk assholes at a bar waving knives at each other, and we're all caught in the middle hoping we don't get stabbed.
I don't fear DPRK. I fear Trump. I fear that he'll launch a pre-emptive strike (with nuclear or conventional weapons), and who knows what the fuck happens then. DPRK has nukes and nothing to lose. Maybe they'll lob one at Seoul or Tokyo. Maybe they'll manage to get one to New York.
Even if nukes don't come into play, how will the rest of the world react to a brazenly pre-emptive war launched by a leader as distrusted as Trump – and in defiance of long-standing allies? We could easily end up in a shooting war with China, with the rest of the world saying "welp, good luck with that".
And, any kind of war will give cover for Russia to continue their campaign to erode American democracy, while we're all (understandably) preoccupied with the threat of atomic armageddon.
And no matter what happens, you're looking at tens of thousands of South Korean civilian casualties.
All of this for one profoundly damaged man's fragile fucking ego. I'm often disappointed to realize that we'll never know exactly what happened to this guy to turn him into such a colossal piece of dogshit. Two years in, and I'm still amazed by what a brittle, petty, spiteful, self-obsessed sack of failure he is.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 1:28 PM on August 11, 2017 [134 favorites]
The Cold War is a natural point of reference for the present moment, but it's an imperfect one. In those times, you had two adversarial superpowers, each with thousands of nukes (and the ability to deliver them) – enough firepower to literally annihilate each other. And, although leaders on both sides were hardly angels, at least they were rational. No one wanted a nuclear war. Mutually assured destruction is a fucked-up doctrine, but it's a doctrine that's motivated by a sincere desire to avoid said destruction.
The present moment is not that.
In the present moment, you have one superpower, and one dysfunctional backwater of a nation who might be able to deliver one or two nukes before getting pulverized into the sea (and they know this). And instead of rational actors, you have two dudes with profound personality disorders, both doing their best to escalate the situation. They're two drunk assholes at a bar waving knives at each other, and we're all caught in the middle hoping we don't get stabbed.
I don't fear DPRK. I fear Trump. I fear that he'll launch a pre-emptive strike (with nuclear or conventional weapons), and who knows what the fuck happens then. DPRK has nukes and nothing to lose. Maybe they'll lob one at Seoul or Tokyo. Maybe they'll manage to get one to New York.
Even if nukes don't come into play, how will the rest of the world react to a brazenly pre-emptive war launched by a leader as distrusted as Trump – and in defiance of long-standing allies? We could easily end up in a shooting war with China, with the rest of the world saying "welp, good luck with that".
And, any kind of war will give cover for Russia to continue their campaign to erode American democracy, while we're all (understandably) preoccupied with the threat of atomic armageddon.
And no matter what happens, you're looking at tens of thousands of South Korean civilian casualties.
All of this for one profoundly damaged man's fragile fucking ego. I'm often disappointed to realize that we'll never know exactly what happened to this guy to turn him into such a colossal piece of dogshit. Two years in, and I'm still amazed by what a brittle, petty, spiteful, self-obsessed sack of failure he is.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 1:28 PM on August 11, 2017 [134 favorites]
Drew Magary wrote a pretty convincing dystopian book called "The Postmortal" that envisions a world in which the cure for aging is discovered. So people have two ages: Their actual calendar age, and their "cure age", the age at which the aging process was halted. The narrator has a cure age of 29. Even when he's in his 60s, he is biologically 29.
The Trump administration's mere existence feels like the opposite of that. My calendar age is 42, but just seven months in, I feel like my Trump age is 45.
posted by middleclasstool at 1:29 PM on August 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
The Trump administration's mere existence feels like the opposite of that. My calendar age is 42, but just seven months in, I feel like my Trump age is 45.
posted by middleclasstool at 1:29 PM on August 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
Does it seem possible to you that he is not actually defending Putin, but is trying to play off a "you can't hurt me nyah nyah" attitude toward him?
I was actually thinking this was the likely explanation yesterday afternoon - it's an attempt to taunt and show how little the action hurts. However, it might sound good in Trump's brain, but from the outside it looks like:
-he's defending/siding with Putin;
-he doesn't care about the staff impacted by the move (and I know they are all part of State and still have jobs, but there's a callousness in his attitude towards their well-being)
And even if you do think it's Trump posturing with a taunt, it's an incredibly weak taunt to make because it allows Putin to up the stakes by either of these responses: "you liked it? Well, here's some more then!" i.e., kicking more people out or "that didn't hurt? Let me find something that will."
posted by nubs at 1:29 PM on August 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
I was actually thinking this was the likely explanation yesterday afternoon - it's an attempt to taunt and show how little the action hurts. However, it might sound good in Trump's brain, but from the outside it looks like:
-he's defending/siding with Putin;
-he doesn't care about the staff impacted by the move (and I know they are all part of State and still have jobs, but there's a callousness in his attitude towards their well-being)
And even if you do think it's Trump posturing with a taunt, it's an incredibly weak taunt to make because it allows Putin to up the stakes by either of these responses: "you liked it? Well, here's some more then!" i.e., kicking more people out or "that didn't hurt? Let me find something that will."
posted by nubs at 1:29 PM on August 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
What does surprise me is that not a single Trump-whisperer has emerged.
Trump has been rich enough his whole life to have never heard the word "no". If someone says that to him, he fires them and hires someone who won't. Until, eventually, they do, and then the cycle repeats.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 1:30 PM on August 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Trump has been rich enough his whole life to have never heard the word "no". If someone says that to him, he fires them and hires someone who won't. Until, eventually, they do, and then the cycle repeats.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 1:30 PM on August 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
The effect of one nuclear bomb on the US economy is probably equivalent to one hurricane.
What would the economic effect be of investors worldwide learning that, hey, sometimes American cities seem to disappear suddenly, that doesn't seem to happen to Zurich so often
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:31 PM on August 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
What would the economic effect be of investors worldwide learning that, hey, sometimes American cities seem to disappear suddenly, that doesn't seem to happen to Zurich so often
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:31 PM on August 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
A NK bomb will not be forthcoming or will Do very little.
A US bomb is more likely and will kill a lot of people, and will lead to conventional war.
Conventional war will kill millions, of course, in north and South Korea.
So the chances of a horrifying outcome are unnervingly high, but probably it won't be the US directly affected so pretending like it will be comes off a bit weird.
Unless China gets involved, then we're all fucked.
Also nukes being normalised is letting a big genie out of a bottle.
posted by Artw at 1:32 PM on August 11, 2017 [58 favorites]
A US bomb is more likely and will kill a lot of people, and will lead to conventional war.
Conventional war will kill millions, of course, in north and South Korea.
So the chances of a horrifying outcome are unnervingly high, but probably it won't be the US directly affected so pretending like it will be comes off a bit weird.
Unless China gets involved, then we're all fucked.
Also nukes being normalised is letting a big genie out of a bottle.
posted by Artw at 1:32 PM on August 11, 2017 [58 favorites]
Let me rephrase myself this way: how many nuclear warhead detonations would it take to stop the US economically and politically? Where would they have to be?
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:32 PM on August 11, 2017
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:32 PM on August 11, 2017
how will the rest of the world react to a brazenly pre-emptive war launched
How much has the world cared enough to provide a reaction to the expending of munitions of the US of A so far?
posted by rough ashlar at 1:33 PM on August 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
How much has the world cared enough to provide a reaction to the expending of munitions of the US of A so far?
posted by rough ashlar at 1:33 PM on August 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
The children of women who were pregnant in New Orleans during Katrina are not being born with cancer. The buildings that are standing are not going to be toxic to inhabit for the next few generations. The gardens that were flattened are not now too toxic to grow food for humans to eat.
Well, but you could say the same about Hiroshima and Nagasaki; despite all of the deaths from the blast itself and acute radiation poisoning, the survivors were able to resettle and rebuild immediately. As horrible as the effects of nuclear weapons are, they are almost entirely short-term.
posted by teraflop at 1:35 PM on August 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
Well, but you could say the same about Hiroshima and Nagasaki; despite all of the deaths from the blast itself and acute radiation poisoning, the survivors were able to resettle and rebuild immediately. As horrible as the effects of nuclear weapons are, they are almost entirely short-term.
posted by teraflop at 1:35 PM on August 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
BREAKING NEWS: Mike Pence's Website Not Actually Hacked, but Esquire reported this Funny or Die parody site as a real hack a couple of hours ago when it was actually [fake]
posted by infinitewindow at 1:35 PM on August 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by infinitewindow at 1:35 PM on August 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Perhaps now would be a good time for the UN or some other grouping of nations to place economic sanctions on the United States for warmongering?
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:35 PM on August 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:35 PM on August 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
I'm having trouble expressing how wrongheaded it is to believe that the effect of a nuclear weapon on an American city would be roughly equivalent to one hurricane.
posted by Justinian at 1:36 PM on August 11, 2017 [63 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 1:36 PM on August 11, 2017 [63 favorites]
From previous thread:
(Emphasis mime)
I want to thank Room 641-A for all their past outstanding contributions to this site, and this latest in particular. I know I for one will be including a parenthetical emphasis mime in my mind to all future [real] events reported here, to drive home the tragicomic weight of each item. Thanks!!
Wish there was a parenthetical emphasis mime emoji.
posted by riverlife at 1:37 PM on August 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
(Emphasis mime)
I want to thank Room 641-A for all their past outstanding contributions to this site, and this latest in particular. I know I for one will be including a parenthetical emphasis mime in my mind to all future [real] events reported here, to drive home the tragicomic weight of each item. Thanks!!
Wish there was a parenthetical emphasis mime emoji.
posted by riverlife at 1:37 PM on August 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
As horrible as the effects of nuclear weapons are, they are almost entirely short-term.
That really depends on the specific nature of the nuclear weapon being used.
posted by dilaudid at 1:38 PM on August 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
That really depends on the specific nature of the nuclear weapon being used.
posted by dilaudid at 1:38 PM on August 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
It's worth noting that most of the commentary about North Korea nuking America is working toward the Trump regime's ends. The expert belief is that there is actually little to no threat from North Korean nukes to any US territory.
But it does fit into the Trump regime's narrative of crisis. "We need to attack now, the preparing to launch nukes at us! "
So remember that when you make Cuban Missile Crisis comparisons, or post blast rings superimposed over cities.
posted by happyroach at 1:38 PM on August 11, 2017 [26 favorites]
But it does fit into the Trump regime's narrative of crisis. "We need to attack now, the preparing to launch nukes at us! "
So remember that when you make Cuban Missile Crisis comparisons, or post blast rings superimposed over cities.
posted by happyroach at 1:38 PM on August 11, 2017 [26 favorites]
As horrible as the effects of nuclear weapons are, they are almost entirely short-term.
I need to do a bit more digging into this question, but I think it's instructive both to look at how quickly Hiroshima and Nagasaki recovered from the blasts and subsequent radiation, and to recognize that today's nuclear weapons are probably about as different from those bombs as white phosphorus is from a Revolutionary War cannonball.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:40 PM on August 11, 2017 [43 favorites]
I need to do a bit more digging into this question, but I think it's instructive both to look at how quickly Hiroshima and Nagasaki recovered from the blasts and subsequent radiation, and to recognize that today's nuclear weapons are probably about as different from those bombs as white phosphorus is from a Revolutionary War cannonball.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:40 PM on August 11, 2017 [43 favorites]
So nuclear war is bad and intentionally detonating nuclear weapons in inhabited areas is bad, but
The buildings that are standing are not going to be toxic to inhabit for the next few generations.
You know people actually live in the blast zones of Hiroshima and Nagasaki? And have done for decades?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:40 PM on August 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
The buildings that are standing are not going to be toxic to inhabit for the next few generations.
You know people actually live in the blast zones of Hiroshima and Nagasaki? And have done for decades?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:40 PM on August 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm having trouble expressing how wrongheaded it is to believe that the effect of a nuclear weapon on an American city would be roughly equivalent to one hurricane.
Fair enough. Even one such weapon used in anger is one too many, with wide ranging, long lasting and devastating effects.
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:40 PM on August 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Fair enough. Even one such weapon used in anger is one too many, with wide ranging, long lasting and devastating effects.
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:40 PM on August 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
"Fallout only lasts months not centuries" is not a good reason for nuclear war.
posted by Talez at 1:41 PM on August 11, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by Talez at 1:41 PM on August 11, 2017 [25 favorites]
That really depends on the specific nature of the nuclear weapon being used.
True. Also, death is pretty permanent.
Here's a handy app based on the google maps api where you can play around testing the effects of various types and sizes of nuclear explosions on American cities! Fun for the whole family.
A small 7-10kt weapon of the sort NK can produce airbursting over Los Angeles would instantly kill on the order of 70,000 and injure another few hundred thousand. The eventual deaths from radiation would add to the total.
posted by Justinian at 1:43 PM on August 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
True. Also, death is pretty permanent.
Here's a handy app based on the google maps api where you can play around testing the effects of various types and sizes of nuclear explosions on American cities! Fun for the whole family.
A small 7-10kt weapon of the sort NK can produce airbursting over Los Angeles would instantly kill on the order of 70,000 and injure another few hundred thousand. The eventual deaths from radiation would add to the total.
posted by Justinian at 1:43 PM on August 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
Always remember: the Republicans in Congress could end this farce at any time. Bill Clinton lied in a minor way about sexual relations and they impeached him. Donald Trump's done all this and has not so far done anything worthy of impeachment in their eyes.
This needs to be the death knell for all Republican influence. Anyone supporting them should be considered automatically suspect, either as a shill, a tool, or just willfully ignorant.
posted by JHarris at 1:44 PM on August 11, 2017 [139 favorites]
This needs to be the death knell for all Republican influence. Anyone supporting them should be considered automatically suspect, either as a shill, a tool, or just willfully ignorant.
posted by JHarris at 1:44 PM on August 11, 2017 [139 favorites]
how many nuclear warhead detonations would it take to stop the US economically and politically? Where would they have to be?
Damn few. It's more a case of "how many are available?"
One in DC when congress is in session; destroy the effective chain of command. One in NY to take out the stock exchange & east coast news industry. One in Mountain View to take out Silicon Valley - if Google goes down, the entire world's communications are disrupted. One in LA to kill the rest of the news & entertainment industry. Those last three have the advantage of taking out huge transit cities as well. (Mountain View isn't SF; a bomb that took out MV wouldn't directly destroy SF's shipping... but the surrounding chaos should work fine for that. Otherwise, throw a few conventional bombs at SF to take out shipping and the entire bay area's transit nexus.)
After that, target major airport cities & non-duplicated industries until you run out of bombs.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:45 PM on August 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Damn few. It's more a case of "how many are available?"
One in DC when congress is in session; destroy the effective chain of command. One in NY to take out the stock exchange & east coast news industry. One in Mountain View to take out Silicon Valley - if Google goes down, the entire world's communications are disrupted. One in LA to kill the rest of the news & entertainment industry. Those last three have the advantage of taking out huge transit cities as well. (Mountain View isn't SF; a bomb that took out MV wouldn't directly destroy SF's shipping... but the surrounding chaos should work fine for that. Otherwise, throw a few conventional bombs at SF to take out shipping and the entire bay area's transit nexus.)
After that, target major airport cities & non-duplicated industries until you run out of bombs.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:45 PM on August 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
It also envisioned staging a phony incident that could be used to start a war. A small group of Iraqi exiles would be flown into Iraq by helicopter to seize an isolated military base near the Saudi border.
When Nazi Germany wanted an excuse to invade Poland in 1939, they sent some guys dressed in Polish uniforms (and the bodies of concentration camp prisoners wearing Polish uniforms that they'd killed) to stage attacks on German buildings along the border. The plan's name? Operation Himmler.
I don't think we should be copying the Nazis.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:46 PM on August 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
My brother the career Foreign Service diplomat is incredibly upset about Trump's so-called joke thanking Putin for kicking diplomats out. Those people are hardworking idealists who sacrifice a considerable amount to represent the USA, and the casual remark was deeply hurtful.
It's almost as if he could handle everything else before this, but this took the cake.
posted by Peach at 1:46 PM on August 11, 2017 [102 favorites]
It's almost as if he could handle everything else before this, but this took the cake.
posted by Peach at 1:46 PM on August 11, 2017 [102 favorites]
Always remember: the Republicans in Congress could end this farce at any time. Bill Clinton lied in a minor way about sexual relations and they impeached him. Donald Trump's done all this and has not so far done anything worthy of impeachment in their eyes.
It feels a little like a giant game of chicken between Trump and McConnell.
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:47 PM on August 11, 2017
It feels a little like a giant game of chicken between Trump and McConnell.
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:47 PM on August 11, 2017
Let me rephrase myself this way: how many nuclear warhead detonations would it take to stop the US economically and politically? Where would they have to be?
There are so many variables. What kind of bomb, how well does it work, at what altitude (or depth) does it explode, etc.
posted by Bee'sWing at 1:48 PM on August 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
There are so many variables. What kind of bomb, how well does it work, at what altitude (or depth) does it explode, etc.
posted by Bee'sWing at 1:48 PM on August 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Didn't our government make up a bunch of bullshit in order to justify a war rather recently?
I mean, that Pandora's Box already been opened.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:49 PM on August 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
I mean, that Pandora's Box already been opened.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:49 PM on August 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
how many nuclear warhead detonations would it take to stop the US economically and politically? Where would they have to be?
9/11 pulled us to the right for 15 years and counting. I don't see how our democracy survives even a single strike, given this environment. Even if it's outside the U.S.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 1:49 PM on August 11, 2017 [48 favorites]
9/11 pulled us to the right for 15 years and counting. I don't see how our democracy survives even a single strike, given this environment. Even if it's outside the U.S.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 1:49 PM on August 11, 2017 [48 favorites]
Happyroach: It's worth noting that most of the commentary about North Korea nuking America is working toward the Trump regime's ends. The expert belief is that there is actually little to no threat from North Korean nukes to any US territory.
But it does fit into the Trump regime's narrative of crisis. "We need to attack now, the preparing to launch nukes at us! "
I think this is a very good point and easy to forget. Seeping Baby Man* is now about as popular as norovirus outside his hardcore base. And he's been losing so much that we're all getting tired of losing - no ACA repeal, protests against banning trans people from military service, protests against Muslim bans, sanctuary cities being openly defiant, Jerry Brown, Jay Inslee and other blue-state governors keeping the Paris climate pact despite what the feds think or do, and Robert Mueller zeroing in on Trump's associates. (When a well-off white guy gets a no-knock search warrant, you KNOW he had to do something wrong.)
So what is there to do for Seeping Baby Man to do but gin up an Enemy and a Righteous War to make himself look good and maybe even boost his popularity a bit? It worked for Dubya, until it didn't.
*courtesy of this FPP
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 1:49 PM on August 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
But it does fit into the Trump regime's narrative of crisis. "We need to attack now, the preparing to launch nukes at us! "
I think this is a very good point and easy to forget. Seeping Baby Man* is now about as popular as norovirus outside his hardcore base. And he's been losing so much that we're all getting tired of losing - no ACA repeal, protests against banning trans people from military service, protests against Muslim bans, sanctuary cities being openly defiant, Jerry Brown, Jay Inslee and other blue-state governors keeping the Paris climate pact despite what the feds think or do, and Robert Mueller zeroing in on Trump's associates. (When a well-off white guy gets a no-knock search warrant, you KNOW he had to do something wrong.)
So what is there to do for Seeping Baby Man to do but gin up an Enemy and a Righteous War to make himself look good and maybe even boost his popularity a bit? It worked for Dubya, until it didn't.
*courtesy of this FPP
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 1:49 PM on August 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
Mod note: I know nuclear weapons are a thing and some very dumb powerful people have been implicitly chatting them up lately but (a) we've had a bunch of discussion about cold war flashbacks and nuke speculation in the previous thread and (b) aren't gonna benefit from further elaborate nuclear apocalypse speculation in here. Please consider not making that a recurring line of chatter.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:49 PM on August 11, 2017 [44 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:49 PM on August 11, 2017 [44 favorites]
You know people actually live in the blast zones of Hiroshima and Nagasaki? And have done for decades?
The populations of Hiroshima and Nagasaki now have among the highest rates of liver cancer in the world.
Not all toxins are quick.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:50 PM on August 11, 2017 [36 favorites]
The populations of Hiroshima and Nagasaki now have among the highest rates of liver cancer in the world.
Not all toxins are quick.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:50 PM on August 11, 2017 [36 favorites]
I don't think a strike would have the same galvanizing and unifying effect that 9/11 did. This government is already hated by at least half the population and distrusted by a good chunk more, with a solid minority of fervent nihilists supporting it.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:51 PM on August 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:51 PM on August 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
He's apparently still using that old-ass Android that every security service on the planet no doubt has access to.
Do we know he's the one making all the tweets? It would be kind of funny (not funny) if he only occasionally uses twitter and someone is MITM-ing the whole thing.
posted by ctmf at 1:52 PM on August 11, 2017
Do we know he's the one making all the tweets? It would be kind of funny (not funny) if he only occasionally uses twitter and someone is MITM-ing the whole thing.
posted by ctmf at 1:52 PM on August 11, 2017
Trump has been rich enough his whole life to have never heard the word "no". If someone says that to him, he fires them and hires someone who won't. Until, eventually, they do, and then the cycle repeats.
I honestly don't think this is the case. The Washington Post article about his childhood makes that clear, I think. I mean, I'm sure that being wealthy didn't help curb his sadistic tendencies, but from early on he was a) a little sadist and b) completely comfortable with rejecting corrections as to what he claimed was reality.
His dad tried to sort of beat it out of him by sending him to military school, but it seems like that experience, while brutal, refined his defining personality traits.
And there's some weird shit going on where he seems like he's either demented and/or on coke, and I don't know what's going on there. But I think wealth enabled him to shit on people throughout his life and led him to where he was today, a failed businessman/reality TV star/POTUS.
It's like if he was poor he'd have stuck to abusing his kids/lovers/people at the local bar, but oh well.
posted by angrycat at 1:54 PM on August 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
I honestly don't think this is the case. The Washington Post article about his childhood makes that clear, I think. I mean, I'm sure that being wealthy didn't help curb his sadistic tendencies, but from early on he was a) a little sadist and b) completely comfortable with rejecting corrections as to what he claimed was reality.
His dad tried to sort of beat it out of him by sending him to military school, but it seems like that experience, while brutal, refined his defining personality traits.
And there's some weird shit going on where he seems like he's either demented and/or on coke, and I don't know what's going on there. But I think wealth enabled him to shit on people throughout his life and led him to where he was today, a failed businessman/reality TV star/POTUS.
It's like if he was poor he'd have stuck to abusing his kids/lovers/people at the local bar, but oh well.
posted by angrycat at 1:54 PM on August 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
And no matter what happens, you're looking at tens of thousands of South Korean civilian casualties.
I linked OPLAN 5027 just two threads ago, so: the NK artillery currently trained on Seoul alone would account for half a million South Korean civilians and 50K US troops in the first several hours. With 12,000 emplacements to target there is no pre-emptive strike strategy that significantly reduces that estimate.
today's nuclear weapons are probably about as different from those bombs as white phosphorus is from a Revolutionary War cannonball.
This is true for the US, not NK. To date NK has tested mostly gun-style weapons along the lines of Little Boy. Their 30KT yield test was probably their first successful implosion weapon. They're a long, long way off from Tellar-Ulam devices or anything remotely comparable.
On preview, just saw Cortex asking for us to tamp down on this aspect, so: for further reading, Ctrl-F BringerTom's comments in the past couple threads, and the recent non-#potus45 NK nuclear thread.
posted by Ryvar at 1:56 PM on August 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
I linked OPLAN 5027 just two threads ago, so: the NK artillery currently trained on Seoul alone would account for half a million South Korean civilians and 50K US troops in the first several hours. With 12,000 emplacements to target there is no pre-emptive strike strategy that significantly reduces that estimate.
today's nuclear weapons are probably about as different from those bombs as white phosphorus is from a Revolutionary War cannonball.
This is true for the US, not NK. To date NK has tested mostly gun-style weapons along the lines of Little Boy. Their 30KT yield test was probably their first successful implosion weapon. They're a long, long way off from Tellar-Ulam devices or anything remotely comparable.
On preview, just saw Cortex asking for us to tamp down on this aspect, so: for further reading, Ctrl-F BringerTom's comments in the past couple threads, and the recent non-#potus45 NK nuclear thread.
posted by Ryvar at 1:56 PM on August 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
It's really hard to tell them apart
They both look like characters that could be played by Mike Myers under several inches of rubber prosthetics.
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:58 PM on August 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
They both look like characters that could be played by Mike Myers under several inches of rubber prosthetics.
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:58 PM on August 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Wish there was a parenthetical emphasis mime emoji.
:] :[
Senators and Congressional critters won't answer phones? Fax them daily.
Dear [name]:posted by tilde at 1:59 PM on August 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
1. Impeach
2. Resign
3. Write your book
4: Profit!
Sincerely,
[name]
Tammy Duckworth was on Late Night and noted that essentially Trump is trying to match crazy with crazy against a guy who executed his own uncle with an anti-aircraft gun.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:59 PM on August 11, 2017 [108 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:59 PM on August 11, 2017 [108 favorites]
I'm sure there will be stories on this when it's over, but Omarosa Manigault is speaking at the National Association of Black Journalists, and it doesn't sound like it's going great. She said "I fight on the front lines every day" to groans from the audience, some have turned their backs on her and others have walked out, the conference organizer and the moderator got into an argument about what the panel is there for, Omarosa walked off the stage, now it's over.
I hope there's footage of all this.
posted by zachlipton at 2:01 PM on August 11, 2017 [51 favorites]
I hope there's footage of all this.
posted by zachlipton at 2:01 PM on August 11, 2017 [51 favorites]
The question of whether North Korea's nuclear capability is being exaggerated or not is essentially irrelevant to the case for war. Nobody doubts that North Korea is working towards developing a nuclear ICBM. Nobody doubts that North Korea is capable of decimating Seoul and its many US citizens today using conventional weapons. The question is, are we willing to accept the likely annihilation of Seoul in exchange for preventing North Korea from developing a nuclear ICBM, and are we willing to do this while the US Commander-in-Chief is a highly confused narcissistic racist con-artist with the leadership skills of the mean kid from Toy Story?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:01 PM on August 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:01 PM on August 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
Tammy Duckworth was on Late Night and noted that essentially Trump is trying to match crazy with crazy against a guy who executed his own uncle with an anti-aircraft gun.
This is both absolutely true and extraordinarily scary... because I'm not 100% convinced Trump wouldn't win.
posted by Justinian at 2:02 PM on August 11, 2017
This is both absolutely true and extraordinarily scary... because I'm not 100% convinced Trump wouldn't win.
posted by Justinian at 2:02 PM on August 11, 2017
Who remembers this?
And then this?
Feels chillingly relevant.
posted by exlotuseater at 2:02 PM on August 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
And then this?
Feels chillingly relevant.
posted by exlotuseater at 2:02 PM on August 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
I really hope the Mueller investigation doesn't end up taking down a lot of little fish and maybe one or two bigger sacrificial lambs while Trump and his inner circle get away.
I remain (very cautiously) optimistic about Mueller's investigation. He scored a conviction against John Gotti. His team includes experts in investigating, thwarting, and prosecuting exactly the sort of mobster tactics deployed by the campaign and administration. And they are all seasoned professionals obviously not in this for the money (several took pay cuts to join the team). All this commitment and experience is being brought to bear against incompetent criminals loyal only to themselves whose legal defense teams will bail at the first sign of blowback and/or uncertain bill payment.
I need a tiny sliver of hope right now, and since news of the Manafort raid broke, this is the one I have chosen: That Mueller and his team will catch and flip smaller targets until they have enough to bring down the bigger ones. That they will be canny enough and disciplined enough to let the big targets think the heat is off their backs, to imagine that the bus under which they threw their lieutenants is not coming around the corner for another pass. That by the time they spring the trap, it will be too late for any would-be Teflon Dons to wriggle out.
This process will be slower than any of us would like, but what little I've seen so far gives me hope.
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 2:03 PM on August 11, 2017 [27 favorites]
I remain (very cautiously) optimistic about Mueller's investigation. He scored a conviction against John Gotti. His team includes experts in investigating, thwarting, and prosecuting exactly the sort of mobster tactics deployed by the campaign and administration. And they are all seasoned professionals obviously not in this for the money (several took pay cuts to join the team). All this commitment and experience is being brought to bear against incompetent criminals loyal only to themselves whose legal defense teams will bail at the first sign of blowback and/or uncertain bill payment.
I need a tiny sliver of hope right now, and since news of the Manafort raid broke, this is the one I have chosen: That Mueller and his team will catch and flip smaller targets until they have enough to bring down the bigger ones. That they will be canny enough and disciplined enough to let the big targets think the heat is off their backs, to imagine that the bus under which they threw their lieutenants is not coming around the corner for another pass. That by the time they spring the trap, it will be too late for any would-be Teflon Dons to wriggle out.
This process will be slower than any of us would like, but what little I've seen so far gives me hope.
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 2:03 PM on August 11, 2017 [27 favorites]
It worked for Dubya, until it didn't.
The big difference here will be Dubya was reacting to us being suddenly attacked on the homeland. His jump in popularity was because we were attacked, and it then immediately started falling.
Went from low 50s to 90, then fell back to high 50s, then Iraq when he just went up to 70, then fell again to 50 and we captured Saddam and he went up to like 63 percent, and then just kept falling until he ended up around 32 percent approval rating when he left.
If Trump decided to preemptively strike, the math is completely different. 1) his approval rating is already deeply underwater, 2) we would not be surprise attacked, instead we would be seen as the aggressor by basically every nation, 3) if Trump attacks with nukes, the insane death and destruction would be extremely shocking which would also keep any popularity gains down. If NK attacks first, he'll still be blamed for goading it on. It's just seems like such an asinine strategy.
It's just an incredibly stupid strategy if they think they're gonna have a Bush-like blossoming if they go to war.
posted by tittergrrl at 2:04 PM on August 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
The big difference here will be Dubya was reacting to us being suddenly attacked on the homeland. His jump in popularity was because we were attacked, and it then immediately started falling.
Went from low 50s to 90, then fell back to high 50s, then Iraq when he just went up to 70, then fell again to 50 and we captured Saddam and he went up to like 63 percent, and then just kept falling until he ended up around 32 percent approval rating when he left.
If Trump decided to preemptively strike, the math is completely different. 1) his approval rating is already deeply underwater, 2) we would not be surprise attacked, instead we would be seen as the aggressor by basically every nation, 3) if Trump attacks with nukes, the insane death and destruction would be extremely shocking which would also keep any popularity gains down. If NK attacks first, he'll still be blamed for goading it on. It's just seems like such an asinine strategy.
It's just an incredibly stupid strategy if they think they're gonna have a Bush-like blossoming if they go to war.
posted by tittergrrl at 2:04 PM on August 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
Well folks, it's after 5pm Eastern so I guess we can call it a wrap on Nuclear Crisis week
that's how this works, right?
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:05 PM on August 11, 2017 [33 favorites]
that's how this works, right?
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:05 PM on August 11, 2017 [33 favorites]
This administration has made some mistakes but scheduling Nuclear Crisis Week is definitely one of them
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:10 PM on August 11, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:10 PM on August 11, 2017 [27 favorites]
None of us should be surprised at this point by Cheeto's fathomless ignorance and incompetence, but the "military is not actually fully in place" link is truly astounding.
The President of the United States neither understands nor cares that intercontinental war is a vastly complex undertaking which requires months of planning, preparation, and logistics (preferably in consultation with, y'know, the military). And yet here he is, threatening action that our military is not in a position to deliver. You have to wonder how much goodwill this is costing him among the brass – and among the troops who will be sent into battle with their pants down if Trump decides to make good on his threats.
The danger of a nuclear strike on American soil – even if it's a small bomb – isn't just the casualties and economic damage. The fallout that terrifies me in that scenario isn't radioactive; it's political. Because I can think of no more perfect way to convince the electorate to rally behind and hand unchecked power to Trump. Because once nuclear weapons are in play, it fundamentally alters the strategic calculations of every country on Earth. Because as tense as the American political situation already is, Cleveland being vaporized by a nuke could send us into a downward spiral of panic, recrimination, and rash actions.
I'll stop catastrophizing now, but consider that 9/11 killed just 3,000 people, and destroyed a handful of buildings. Now consider what a single nuke can do.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 2:12 PM on August 11, 2017 [26 favorites]
The President of the United States neither understands nor cares that intercontinental war is a vastly complex undertaking which requires months of planning, preparation, and logistics (preferably in consultation with, y'know, the military). And yet here he is, threatening action that our military is not in a position to deliver. You have to wonder how much goodwill this is costing him among the brass – and among the troops who will be sent into battle with their pants down if Trump decides to make good on his threats.
The danger of a nuclear strike on American soil – even if it's a small bomb – isn't just the casualties and economic damage. The fallout that terrifies me in that scenario isn't radioactive; it's political. Because I can think of no more perfect way to convince the electorate to rally behind and hand unchecked power to Trump. Because once nuclear weapons are in play, it fundamentally alters the strategic calculations of every country on Earth. Because as tense as the American political situation already is, Cleveland being vaporized by a nuke could send us into a downward spiral of panic, recrimination, and rash actions.
I'll stop catastrophizing now, but consider that 9/11 killed just 3,000 people, and destroyed a handful of buildings. Now consider what a single nuke can do.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 2:12 PM on August 11, 2017 [26 favorites]
In the interest of further calming down runaway speculation, I highly recommend this Mattis interview for anybody who missed it.
The man is far too bloodthirsty in general for anybody calling themselves a liberal, let alone a pacifist, true - you don't earn the nickname "Mad Dog" for statesmanlike behavior. But he's also deeply intelligent, well-read on military history, and not the kind of person that kicks off World War III deliberately or by accident. Given how Congress and most of the establishment Republicans feel about Trump, I'm not sure whether attempting to force Mattis's hand with threats of firing would result in expedited impeachment, 25th amendment removal, or just a plain old-fashioned coup, but it's not "D) None of the above."
I'm not suggesting it's a good thing to be relying on our generals, but yougo to prevent war with the Secretary of Defense you have, not the one you might want or wish to have at a later time.
posted by Ryvar at 2:15 PM on August 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
The man is far too bloodthirsty in general for anybody calling themselves a liberal, let alone a pacifist, true - you don't earn the nickname "Mad Dog" for statesmanlike behavior. But he's also deeply intelligent, well-read on military history, and not the kind of person that kicks off World War III deliberately or by accident. Given how Congress and most of the establishment Republicans feel about Trump, I'm not sure whether attempting to force Mattis's hand with threats of firing would result in expedited impeachment, 25th amendment removal, or just a plain old-fashioned coup, but it's not "D) None of the above."
I'm not suggesting it's a good thing to be relying on our generals, but you
posted by Ryvar at 2:15 PM on August 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
Well folks, it's after 5pm Eastern so I guess we can call it a wrap on Nuclear Crisis week
So much of the late day breaking news comes out around five or six o'clock PST, so there's still time.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:20 PM on August 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
So much of the late day breaking news comes out around five or six o'clock PST, so there's still time.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:20 PM on August 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: Americans can sleep well at night
And here I am trying to go to sleep. Maybe a glass of warm milk (from the local milk people?) … no this is no good, I am thinking about the President again.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:22 PM on August 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
Maybe I’d better walk around the room a little before I try to fall asleep. (There are fires raging in the Arctic Circle.) Maybe I’ll drink some water. Maybe I’ll lie awake alternating between wondering whether the faint noise coming from just down the hall is an intruder, breathing heavily, and whether the alert currently flashing on my phone is the announcement that the Trump administration has finally, after careful thought and deliberation, gotten rid of Los Angeles.
I spend most evenings doing my best impression of Lady Macbeth (the walking around panicking part, not the urging my spouse to murder people part).
ErisLordFredom: Damn few. It's more a case of "how many are available?"
Mountain View shutting down doesn't shut down the internet. Heck, it doesn't even shut down Google. They have data centers all over the world hooked together with the largest known non-governmental private network in the world. It would definitely slow down the pace of development and recovery but things would keep chugging along nicely for quite awhile. You have to remember that the Internet was designed from the beginning to sustain nuclear attacks. The basic protocols are incredibly robust in the face of failure, so as long as there's *some* path between points A and B packets will get through.
Your point about shipping hubs is interesting but SF is not that important of a port anymore. Now, if something were to simultaneously shut down the ports of Long Beach, Los Angeles, and New York/New Jersey, that would effectively stop international trade for the continental US.
posted by zrail at 2:24 PM on August 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
Mountain View shutting down doesn't shut down the internet. Heck, it doesn't even shut down Google. They have data centers all over the world hooked together with the largest known non-governmental private network in the world. It would definitely slow down the pace of development and recovery but things would keep chugging along nicely for quite awhile. You have to remember that the Internet was designed from the beginning to sustain nuclear attacks. The basic protocols are incredibly robust in the face of failure, so as long as there's *some* path between points A and B packets will get through.
Your point about shipping hubs is interesting but SF is not that important of a port anymore. Now, if something were to simultaneously shut down the ports of Long Beach, Los Angeles, and New York/New Jersey, that would effectively stop international trade for the continental US.
posted by zrail at 2:24 PM on August 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
The frustrating thing is that Tump's administration seem to be trying to calm things down, but he keeps saying dangerous, dumbass things. After the "fire and fury" thing Tillerson and the rest tried to calm things down, but then Trump just says something worse. If he would just shut the fuck up it seems like the adults can work through this crisis, but he won't.
This remains relevant:
This remains relevant:
WaPo: The president shat himself.posted by Sangermaine at 2:24 PM on August 11, 2017 [144 favorites]
White House: The president would never shit himself.
Trump: I SHAT MYSELF ON PURPOSE
Every. Fucking. Day.
Well folks, it's after 5pm Eastern so I guess we can call it a wrap on Nuclear Crisis week
It is, however, 6am Pyongyang time, so, y'know, Kim Jong-Un's alarm is probably going off right now, and he's probably about to open up CNN on his iPad and see the latest crazy Trump rant. Oh lord save us all from these maniacs.
posted by dis_integration at 2:25 PM on August 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
It is, however, 6am Pyongyang time, so, y'know, Kim Jong-Un's alarm is probably going off right now, and he's probably about to open up CNN on his iPad and see the latest crazy Trump rant. Oh lord save us all from these maniacs.
posted by dis_integration at 2:25 PM on August 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
If (big, big if) Trump uses a nuclear weapon against a country that has not attcked us, then I hope he is tried in The Hague for crimes against humanity. Would that be possible because I will do whatever I can to make sure that happens.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:25 PM on August 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:25 PM on August 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
So Omarosa was just booed off stage at a panel at the NABJ conference. The panel was called "Black and Blue: Raising our Sons, Protecting Our Communities." Apparently some thought she was qualified to participate because her dad and brother were both killed. Asked to explain or defend Trumps policies she demurred, told Ed Gordon he was being "aggressive" (rip,irony) and refused to disclose "confidential convos" she had with the president. To diffuse the tension they put on a video, which unfortunately was of the president giving his law and order speech about paddy wagons and roughing suspects up. Shit got weirder from there and I cant wait/am horrified to read the non-twitter descriptions of this scene.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 2:27 PM on August 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 2:27 PM on August 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
Would that be possible because I will do whatever I can to make sure that happens.
The US is not a participant of the International Criminal Court, so no it's not possible. Clinton signed the Rome Statute but it never got submitted to the Senate for ratification.
posted by zrail at 2:30 PM on August 11, 2017
The US is not a participant of the International Criminal Court, so no it's not possible. Clinton signed the Rome Statute but it never got submitted to the Senate for ratification.
posted by zrail at 2:30 PM on August 11, 2017
TRUMPDOYOUWANNASEEMYNEWCHAINSAWANDHOCKEYMASK?
posted by rhizome at 2:32 PM on August 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by rhizome at 2:32 PM on August 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
I hope Jong-Un isn't the type to be cranky just after he wakes up.
Is it too much to hope/dread that Kim Jong-un gets a Twitter account?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:32 PM on August 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Is it too much to hope/dread that Kim Jong-un gets a Twitter account?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:32 PM on August 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Isn't a huge thing with the NABJ Omarosa insanity is that they asked somebody from the DOJ to rep the Trump admin and so Trump sends the one of two black people in his orbit, not somebody from the DOJ, and also an insane person?
I guess Ben Carson was busy.
posted by angrycat at 2:33 PM on August 11, 2017 [18 favorites]
I guess Ben Carson was busy.
posted by angrycat at 2:33 PM on August 11, 2017 [18 favorites]
Steve Bannon Said He Learned to Fear Muslims When He Visited Pakistan. Except He Was Probably in Hong Kong.
[Intercept, but Peter Haas hasn't shown any of their pro-Putin taint that I can tell]
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:36 PM on August 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
[Intercept, but Peter Haas hasn't shown any of their pro-Putin taint that I can tell]
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:36 PM on August 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
Well folks, it's after 5pm Eastern so I guess we can call it a wrap on Nuclear Crisis week
In Trump's world, this would have been called something like Nuclear Safety Week, or World Peace Week, or some such.
posted by dirigibleman at 2:37 PM on August 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
In Trump's world, this would have been called something like Nuclear Safety Week, or World Peace Week, or some such.
posted by dirigibleman at 2:37 PM on August 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Here's some video from Omarosa's NABJ panel (starts during the video for about a minute). The moderator (Ed Gordon, who stepped in at the last minute after others pulled out) tells her she's not going to be able to railroad this and that she doesn't get to come here as a representative of the White House expecting to not answer questions about Trump. She wants people to "get to learn about me" and wants to talk about her personal story instead of being asked about Trump. Gordon keeps pressing her on what she told Trump after he declared the police should assault suspects, and she continues to refuse to answer.
Here's another clip (and part 2) that shows how heated this got.
posted by zachlipton at 2:37 PM on August 11, 2017 [25 favorites]
Here's another clip (and part 2) that shows how heated this got.
posted by zachlipton at 2:37 PM on August 11, 2017 [25 favorites]
I will fight to the death in support of the hypothesis "Season 04 was the BEST season"
Treehouse of Horror V: Time and Punishment
It's the best version of Ray Bradbury's A Sound of Thunder ever created.
Season 6, Episode 6. Air date: October 30, 1994
posted by zarq at 2:39 PM on August 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
Treehouse of Horror V: Time and Punishment
It's the best version of Ray Bradbury's A Sound of Thunder ever created.
Season 6, Episode 6. Air date: October 30, 1994
posted by zarq at 2:39 PM on August 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
i like dan carlin. if you like him, or think you might, here is 6 hours of 'wtf nuclear weapons are fucked up and bullshit': The Destroyer of Worlds.
posted by j_curiouser at 2:39 PM on August 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by j_curiouser at 2:39 PM on August 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
So this idea is back. Bloomberg, Manchin Is Said to Emerge as Possible Pick for Energy Department
Some White House and Republican officials are exploring the idea of putting West Virginia Democratic Senator Joe Manchin in charge of the Energy Department, according to four people familiar with the discussions, a move that could boost President Donald Trump’s stalled legislative agenda.posted by zachlipton at 2:42 PM on August 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
If Manchin were offered and accepted the position, that would allow West Virginia’s Governor Jim Justice -- a newly minted Republican -- to appoint a GOP successor and bring the party a vote closer in the Senate to being able to repeal Obamacare. The idea is in the early stages of consideration, and it’s unclear whether it has support within the administration, according to the people, who described the conversations under condition of anonymity.
A spokesman for Manchin declined to say whether the senator would take the Energy secretary job -- currently held by former Texas Governor Rick Perry -- if offered.
“Senator Manchin has not had any recent conversations with the Administration about the Secretary of Energy position. He remains committed to serving the people of West Virginia,” said Jonathan Kott.
Manchin, who faces a tough re-election battle in 2018, was considered for the post after Trump won election in November. His nomination fell through in part because Trump wouldn’t assure him he could pick his own staff, according to two people familiar with the staff selections, who described them on condition of anonymity.
Caddyshack III: Bunker Mentality
The gang of golf-course employees must persuade the vacationing President not to initiate nuclear war, with hilarious results
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:43 PM on August 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
The gang of golf-course employees must persuade the vacationing President not to initiate nuclear war, with hilarious results
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:43 PM on August 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
Omarosa is one of Trump's most aggressive flying monkeys, stirring up trouble & conflict wherever she goes. This is clearly what she wanted to happen.
posted by scalefree at 2:49 PM on August 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 2:49 PM on August 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
This is getting really weird: 'Sonic attack': Canadian diplomat in Cuba also suffered hearing damage
Happy Friday: For better or worse, here is Al Franken and Tom Davis as scary-good Mick Jagger and Keith Richards, ca.1983. Senate hearings will never be the same.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:52 PM on August 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
Happy Friday: For better or worse, here is Al Franken and Tom Davis as scary-good Mick Jagger and Keith Richards, ca.1983. Senate hearings will never be the same.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:52 PM on August 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
I've been shocked, since the election, at learning how little even educated, engaged acquaintances younger than, say, late 30s know about nuclear war and nuclear weapons.
I think part of it is that we haven't been exposed to the information about nuclear weapons except in vague ways.
There is a reel that plays in my head when nuclear bombs come up. But it's not the usual mushroom cloud photos. It's video of on-the-ground carnage and destruction. I won't link here because it is possible derail though it's nonfiction and relevant absolutely atrocious nightmare fodder. Footage of the victims of Hiroshima. Burnt limbs, fused eyelids, and on and on.
I think back to a tour of a building that used to be in either Hiroshima or Nagasaki. (The building had been relocated to an outdoor museum of historic buildings.) In the stairway there is a faint shadow, the shadow of someone who was literally vaporized when the bomb hit.
I remember watching a show/documentary where the film crew visits an American high school discussion about Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The students are pretty much unanimous about "the bomb was a good thing"...Until the film crew asks how much they know about what the effects look like. They bring in an album of photos of the aftermath and the injuries to the victims (I can't even describe them here because it is so horrific). Students start crying, and the opinions are much more mixed in the discussion afterwards.
Photographs and videos have a way of engaging people in a way that talk doesn't. You can grow up hearing lectures, rhetoric, war survivor stories, history docs etc but it's the imagery that most vividly sears into your memory. You can argue about nuclear war in terms of economic impact and philosophical justifications and so on, but sometimes it's seeing what it looked like--and what it would look like if it were to happen to YOU--that persuades people. Pic/video also fits in more easily with tweet-sized attention spans. So maybe more of us need to see this stuff to decide whether this is a good idea.
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 2:54 PM on August 11, 2017 [26 favorites]
I think part of it is that we haven't been exposed to the information about nuclear weapons except in vague ways.
There is a reel that plays in my head when nuclear bombs come up. But it's not the usual mushroom cloud photos. It's video of on-the-ground carnage and destruction. I won't link here because it is possible derail though it's nonfiction and relevant absolutely atrocious nightmare fodder. Footage of the victims of Hiroshima. Burnt limbs, fused eyelids, and on and on.
I think back to a tour of a building that used to be in either Hiroshima or Nagasaki. (The building had been relocated to an outdoor museum of historic buildings.) In the stairway there is a faint shadow, the shadow of someone who was literally vaporized when the bomb hit.
I remember watching a show/documentary where the film crew visits an American high school discussion about Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The students are pretty much unanimous about "the bomb was a good thing"...Until the film crew asks how much they know about what the effects look like. They bring in an album of photos of the aftermath and the injuries to the victims (I can't even describe them here because it is so horrific). Students start crying, and the opinions are much more mixed in the discussion afterwards.
Photographs and videos have a way of engaging people in a way that talk doesn't. You can grow up hearing lectures, rhetoric, war survivor stories, history docs etc but it's the imagery that most vividly sears into your memory. You can argue about nuclear war in terms of economic impact and philosophical justifications and so on, but sometimes it's seeing what it looked like--and what it would look like if it were to happen to YOU--that persuades people. Pic/video also fits in more easily with tweet-sized attention spans. So maybe more of us need to see this stuff to decide whether this is a good idea.
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 2:54 PM on August 11, 2017 [26 favorites]
Tammy Duckworth was on Late Night and noted that essentially Trump is trying to match crazy with crazy against a guy who executed his own uncle with an anti-aircraft gun.
Trump only blocked the healthcare for his infant nephew w cerebral palsy, who would have died without it, but had the bad luck to be related to Trump and in the way on some of Older Trump's inheritance in the late 90s.
So NK anti-uncle crazy v good old fashioned US anti-nephew pettiness.
posted by rc3spencer at 2:59 PM on August 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
Trump only blocked the healthcare for his infant nephew w cerebral palsy, who would have died without it, but had the bad luck to be related to Trump and in the way on some of Older Trump's inheritance in the late 90s.
So NK anti-uncle crazy v good old fashioned US anti-nephew pettiness.
posted by rc3spencer at 2:59 PM on August 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
The effect of one nuclear bomb on the US economy is probably equivalent to one hurricane.
there's no predicting the psychological effect, though - sockin'inthefreeworld just talked about the horrific documentaries that exist that they don't want to link to or describe - but what happens when the whole world is seeing similar scenes on live tv?
what happens if a considerable portion of the population panics and decides to evacuate the cities and those in surrounding areas decide they don't want them to?
what happens if instead of unifying the people behind their government, people decide to protest a government they believe is about to kill everyone?
even if it was just confined to korea, the effects of this worldwide are impossible to predict, but the world will never be the same even if ww3 is avoided
posted by pyramid termite at 3:01 PM on August 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
there's no predicting the psychological effect, though - sockin'inthefreeworld just talked about the horrific documentaries that exist that they don't want to link to or describe - but what happens when the whole world is seeing similar scenes on live tv?
what happens if a considerable portion of the population panics and decides to evacuate the cities and those in surrounding areas decide they don't want them to?
what happens if instead of unifying the people behind their government, people decide to protest a government they believe is about to kill everyone?
even if it was just confined to korea, the effects of this worldwide are impossible to predict, but the world will never be the same even if ww3 is avoided
posted by pyramid termite at 3:01 PM on August 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
Manchin Is Said to Emerge as Possible Pick for Energy Department
Unlike Rick Perry, I'm guessing Manchin is smart enough to know that the Energy Department has almost nothing to do with coal. That's primarily the Department of Interior's job.
posted by JackFlash at 3:02 PM on August 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Unlike Rick Perry, I'm guessing Manchin is smart enough to know that the Energy Department has almost nothing to do with coal. That's primarily the Department of Interior's job.
posted by JackFlash at 3:02 PM on August 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oh, the Energy Department supposedly does "Clean Coal" research, but that has turned out to be a big nothing.
posted by JackFlash at 3:05 PM on August 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by JackFlash at 3:05 PM on August 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yeah. Nothing Manchin has done has given the particular impression he wants to trade being in charge of nuclear weapon-related stuff for allowing Republicans to cut Medicaid.
posted by zachlipton at 3:07 PM on August 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 3:07 PM on August 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Also, Trump would just instantly fire Manchin anyway, given that firing people is his only effective tool of statecraft.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 3:10 PM on August 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by J.K. Seazer at 3:10 PM on August 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Tillerson, Trump, and Nicki Haley are on a stage and Trump is talking. When someone asks a question, she looks engaged. When Trump starts talking, the look on her face changes to "I've made a huge mistake."
posted by Room 641-A at 3:10 PM on August 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 3:10 PM on August 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
This is the moment that Trump really became president.
This is the moment he's craved ever since the idea of running occurred to him.
posted by davebush at 3:10 PM on August 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
This is the moment he's craved ever since the idea of running occurred to him.
posted by davebush at 3:10 PM on August 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
I've been shocked, since the election, at learning how little even educated, engaged acquaintances younger than, say, late 30s know about nuclear war and nuclear weapons.
FUCKING millennials. alright kids, quit snapchatting your participation trophies for a minute and listen up, Uncle pbo is gonna Gen-Xplain nuclear bombs to you in terms you can understand
[slices avocado in half]
alright so the pit represents the primary stage, containing the fission bomb that sets off the secondary explosion
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:10 PM on August 11, 2017 [121 favorites]
FUCKING millennials. alright kids, quit snapchatting your participation trophies for a minute and listen up, Uncle pbo is gonna Gen-Xplain nuclear bombs to you in terms you can understand
[slices avocado in half]
alright so the pit represents the primary stage, containing the fission bomb that sets off the secondary explosion
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:10 PM on August 11, 2017 [121 favorites]
@lesleyclark: "I'm not going to rule out a military option," Trump says of Venezuela. "We have many options, including military options."
He also knows that "Venezuela is not very far away."
He says, while also threatening "big big trouble in North Korea" if "anything happens to Guam" and boasting "I'm not sure that anybody's done what we've done in a 6-month period."
posted by zachlipton at 3:10 PM on August 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
He also knows that "Venezuela is not very far away."
He says, while also threatening "big big trouble in North Korea" if "anything happens to Guam" and boasting "I'm not sure that anybody's done what we've done in a 6-month period."
posted by zachlipton at 3:10 PM on August 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
Our best hope may be if Hulu decides to do a remake of Threads.
Sincerely, Poochie Goring
posted by asteria at 3:14 PM on August 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
Sincerely, Poochie Goring
posted by asteria at 3:14 PM on August 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
Remote Diagnoses: The national security establishment versus the “madmen” (N+1)
English-speaking analysts are prone to understanding the behavior of the DPRK through the lens of Richard Nixon’s “madman theory,” a strategy the President adopted in 1969 as he sought an advantageous end to the Vietnam War. Following the theories of the Cold War economist Thomas Schelling, Nixon adopted an approach called Giant Lance, aiming to convince the Soviet Union that an American nuclear strike on Moscow or Hanoi was imminent. By demonstrating that his behavior was not subject to ordinary rational calculation, Nixon hoped to achieve a superior bargaining position: “I call it the Madman Theory, Bob. I want the North Vietnamese to believe that I’ve reached the point that I might do anything to stop the war,” he told H. R. Haldeman. But the Soviets were not fooled: it was not easy to convince them that a world leader would truly be willing to act beyond material motivations and constraints.2posted by Joseph Gurl at 3:17 PM on August 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
Instead it is American foreign policy doctrine that continues to divide the world into rational actors, typically NATO countries, and irrational ones, typically not long for this world: Saddam Hussein, Muammar Gaddafi, the Kims. In this worldview it is not a set of threats or behaviors that makes a leader a madman—it is the determination to maintain independence from American empire, often through the pursuit of nuclear weapons. In such a framework it is always the advocates of continual pressure, threats, and sanctions that appear the most rational, for they are the ones that maintain vigilance against uncontrollable madmen.
"I'm not going to rule out a military option," Trump says of [LITERALLY EVERY COUNTRY]. "We have many options, including military options."
Christ I didn't even realize Venezuela was on his radar, why are we talking about military options against Venezuela? He's opening up his bullshit on too many fronts.
posted by jason_steakums at 3:19 PM on August 11, 2017 [25 favorites]
Christ I didn't even realize Venezuela was on his radar, why are we talking about military options against Venezuela? He's opening up his bullshit on too many fronts.
posted by jason_steakums at 3:19 PM on August 11, 2017 [25 favorites]
An excellent point has been raised in these threads several times previously that what Trump and his supporters/enablers are fundamentally doing is subjecting the rest of us (in the United States and across the world) to an ongoing, escalating background level of trauma, to the kind of built-in traumatic psychological state a family that has an abusive/sociopathic/narcissistic parent running it endures/suffers from over time.
For this reason I have begun calling him President Donald Trauma, and I think it's become more than appropriate for that to become his monicker--heck, I'm saying officially, right now. Not so much with the Trumo, nor Trimp, [], etc. (perfectly reasonable, cromulent diminutions), but: Trauma. It's what he comes from, it's what he traffics in, and it's what he causes everyone and everything with which he comes into even indirect contact. Perhaps we've allowed his ascent because he's a projection of part of the overall American unconsciousness (or even human unconsciousness), generations of trauma pushed/pulled into consciousness so to be consciously dealt with. Perhaps we've needed to have the archetypical embodiment of wealth, privilege, Christendom (per Kierkegaard), and patriarchy in order to properly understand and surmount them, or perhaps he is simply a giant malignant lumbering narcasshole who figured out how to hack democracy with one weird trick. (Maybe he's something else entirely--theses on what he is/represents will after all likely fill generations of university history departments' future archives--yes I'm an optimist, I use the word 'future'.) In any case, he is decidedly President Trauma.
Calling him what he is, what he does, will I hope more quickly help us in one manner or another discern consciously how we can and will productively move forward. Past Trauma. Past Put-on. Past allowing our vast selves to be "led" by repugnant, trauma-inducing, nihilistic fear and death lovers. Impeach Trauma!
posted by riverlife at 3:20 PM on August 11, 2017 [36 favorites]
For this reason I have begun calling him President Donald Trauma, and I think it's become more than appropriate for that to become his monicker--heck, I'm saying officially, right now. Not so much with the Trumo, nor Trimp, [], etc. (perfectly reasonable, cromulent diminutions), but: Trauma. It's what he comes from, it's what he traffics in, and it's what he causes everyone and everything with which he comes into even indirect contact. Perhaps we've allowed his ascent because he's a projection of part of the overall American unconsciousness (or even human unconsciousness), generations of trauma pushed/pulled into consciousness so to be consciously dealt with. Perhaps we've needed to have the archetypical embodiment of wealth, privilege, Christendom (per Kierkegaard), and patriarchy in order to properly understand and surmount them, or perhaps he is simply a giant malignant lumbering narcasshole who figured out how to hack democracy with one weird trick. (Maybe he's something else entirely--theses on what he is/represents will after all likely fill generations of university history departments' future archives--yes I'm an optimist, I use the word 'future'.) In any case, he is decidedly President Trauma.
Calling him what he is, what he does, will I hope more quickly help us in one manner or another discern consciously how we can and will productively move forward. Past Trauma. Past Put-on. Past allowing our vast selves to be "led" by repugnant, trauma-inducing, nihilistic fear and death lovers. Impeach Trauma!
posted by riverlife at 3:20 PM on August 11, 2017 [36 favorites]
The look on Nikki Haley's face in this video...
posted by zachlipton at 3:21 PM on August 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 3:21 PM on August 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
alright so the pit represents the primary stage, containing the fission bomb that sets off the secondary explosion
Actually, if you look at a diagram of a Teller-Ulam H-bomb, it more closely resembles a Hitachi Magic Wand vibrator. The ball-shaped head is the atomic trigger, and the handle is the fusion-boosted-fission secondary. There's a little gap between them because the radiant energy from the fission trigger has to compress and fully react the secondary before the hydrodynamic blast wave from the primary arrives and blows it apart. {insert orgasm joke here}
And after Cortex's plea, that's as nuclear as I'll get for awhile. Except that yeah, if you manage to hit a city with one (a nontrivial task from half way around the world) then even a small nuke will kill more people than any US-landing hurricane ever has.
posted by Bringer Tom at 3:22 PM on August 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
Actually, if you look at a diagram of a Teller-Ulam H-bomb, it more closely resembles a Hitachi Magic Wand vibrator. The ball-shaped head is the atomic trigger, and the handle is the fusion-boosted-fission secondary. There's a little gap between them because the radiant energy from the fission trigger has to compress and fully react the secondary before the hydrodynamic blast wave from the primary arrives and blows it apart. {insert orgasm joke here}
And after Cortex's plea, that's as nuclear as I'll get for awhile. Except that yeah, if you manage to hit a city with one (a nontrivial task from half way around the world) then even a small nuke will kill more people than any US-landing hurricane ever has.
posted by Bringer Tom at 3:22 PM on August 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
"I'm not going to rule out a military option," Trump says of breakfast.
"I'm not going to rule out a military option," Trump says of the concept of shame.
"I'm not going to rule out a military option," Trump says of that chair over in the corner.
posted by jason_steakums at 3:26 PM on August 11, 2017 [34 favorites]
"I'm not going to rule out a military option," Trump says of the concept of shame.
"I'm not going to rule out a military option," Trump says of that chair over in the corner.
posted by jason_steakums at 3:26 PM on August 11, 2017 [34 favorites]
Uh, I think you mean Teller-Ulam "back massager"
posted by Molesome at 3:28 PM on August 11, 2017 [31 favorites]
posted by Molesome at 3:28 PM on August 11, 2017 [31 favorites]
Venezuela's our neighbor?
posted by kirkaracha at 3:30 PM on August 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by kirkaracha at 3:30 PM on August 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
"Madman Theory" seems wildly flawed. If your opponent isn't rational, what incentive is there for you to supplicate them? For all you know, they might take a shot at you no matter what.
posted by The Notorious SRD at 3:31 PM on August 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by The Notorious SRD at 3:31 PM on August 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
Is this stuff so hard? Is he really such a fucking wildcard that he can't even be steered? Or are intelligent people so unwilling to work with him that he's only got idiots and fanatics willing to try to steer that ship?
He can't be steered. You don't really believe that level of obstinacy and stupidity is possible, at least not past a certain professional level, but I used to work for someone like this. You'd come in one day and Boss had fixed on some random new idea and you had to replan your whole day around it. There were intelligent people on our team, but even the best manipulator could only steer Boss so much, and anyway intelligence only means so much when it's being applied to some dead-end vanity project.
I think Pogo_Fuzzybut and angrycat are both correct: Little Donny Two-Scoops was a sadistic reality-denying scumbag from the jump, but the minute he had enough money to do so he built a world in which nobody could tell him "No" ever again and lived in it until he forgot it was a theme park instead of an actual kingdom. I think that's one reason the presidency irks him so much. People have started telling him "no" again, at a time in his life when he had lost any ability he may have had to pretend to inhabit a reality with other subjective actors (like Senators voting against the AHCA), and especially not right after he'd spent a year basking in the adulation of his Main Street parades (to continue the theme park metaphor). And now a bunch of assholes who were supposed to scurry around doing his bidding aren't, and all those actual and implied Nos threaten the giant fragile ego edifice he's built around himself, as a Big Tough Guy Who Makes Offers You Can't Refuse, and the giant fragile ego edifice must be protected at all costs.
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 3:33 PM on August 11, 2017 [53 favorites]
He can't be steered. You don't really believe that level of obstinacy and stupidity is possible, at least not past a certain professional level, but I used to work for someone like this. You'd come in one day and Boss had fixed on some random new idea and you had to replan your whole day around it. There were intelligent people on our team, but even the best manipulator could only steer Boss so much, and anyway intelligence only means so much when it's being applied to some dead-end vanity project.
I think Pogo_Fuzzybut and angrycat are both correct: Little Donny Two-Scoops was a sadistic reality-denying scumbag from the jump, but the minute he had enough money to do so he built a world in which nobody could tell him "No" ever again and lived in it until he forgot it was a theme park instead of an actual kingdom. I think that's one reason the presidency irks him so much. People have started telling him "no" again, at a time in his life when he had lost any ability he may have had to pretend to inhabit a reality with other subjective actors (like Senators voting against the AHCA), and especially not right after he'd spent a year basking in the adulation of his Main Street parades (to continue the theme park metaphor). And now a bunch of assholes who were supposed to scurry around doing his bidding aren't, and all those actual and implied Nos threaten the giant fragile ego edifice he's built around himself, as a Big Tough Guy Who Makes Offers You Can't Refuse, and the giant fragile ego edifice must be protected at all costs.
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 3:33 PM on August 11, 2017 [53 favorites]
Metafilter: a theme park instead of an actual kingdom
posted by Bringer Tom at 3:36 PM on August 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Bringer Tom at 3:36 PM on August 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
Sorry, have we discussed the reports that China has said that "It Will Stay Neutral If US Acts in Self-Defense Following DPRK First Strike, Will Go to War With US If US Strikes First"
I don't know whether I feel relieved or terrified
I don't know anything anymore
posted by prefpara at 3:36 PM on August 11, 2017 [40 favorites]
I don't know whether I feel relieved or terrified
I don't know anything anymore
posted by prefpara at 3:36 PM on August 11, 2017 [40 favorites]
China wins most sane, least warlike. Unfortunately....
posted by Artw at 3:40 PM on August 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Artw at 3:40 PM on August 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
All I wanted was a meal. All I wanted was to get away from the threat of annihilation for half an hour. But apparently this is life now.
Okay, this feeling right here? Every Gen-X'er you know was going through that in high school, constantly. We're all sitting here like "*sigh* here we go again."
I don't fear DPRK. I fear Trump.
I think this is where we all are, frankly....
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:42 PM on August 11, 2017 [28 favorites]
Okay, this feeling right here? Every Gen-X'er you know was going through that in high school, constantly. We're all sitting here like "*sigh* here we go again."
I don't fear DPRK. I fear Trump.
I think this is where we all are, frankly....
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:42 PM on August 11, 2017 [28 favorites]
The look on Nikki Haley's face in this video...
Add Amb. Haley to the list of people who can't hide their bewilderment and unease while Trump or one of his remoras is revealing the depths of their ignorance, incompetence, and malice. Is there a supercut of showing eg, the WH press corps, Buzz Aldrin, Haley, etc?
Donny is not only out of his element, he's out of the fucking periodic table altogether.
posted by lord_wolf at 3:42 PM on August 11, 2017 [50 favorites]
Add Amb. Haley to the list of people who can't hide their bewilderment and unease while Trump or one of his remoras is revealing the depths of their ignorance, incompetence, and malice. Is there a supercut of showing eg, the WH press corps, Buzz Aldrin, Haley, etc?
Donny is not only out of his element, he's out of the fucking periodic table altogether.
posted by lord_wolf at 3:42 PM on August 11, 2017 [50 favorites]
I don't fear DPRK. I fear Trump.
As a long-term resident of Seoul, the perennial target of enough conventional weapons to kill everyone I know and love, I agree with this. The DPRK is not a threat. Not a threat at all.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 3:44 PM on August 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
As a long-term resident of Seoul, the perennial target of enough conventional weapons to kill everyone I know and love, I agree with this. The DPRK is not a threat. Not a threat at all.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 3:44 PM on August 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
In this worldview it is not a set of threats or behaviors that makes a leader a madman—it is the determination to maintain independence from American empire, often through the pursuit of nuclear weapons.
So true, but I'm pretty sure that's not the only common and certainly not the most obvious shared feature of the leaders the US/Europe typically labels "madmen."
The North Korea situation is nervewracking and stressful, especially for the youngs who weren't around during the Cold War, for which this is all very foreign. And obviously Trump's involvement and the irresponsible news coverage doesn't help any. Plus, y'know, nukes are scary.
But it's also a good idea to interrogate where the outsized fear response to this in some quarters is coming from. Because as cjelli points out upthread, the reality is:
Nobody really seems to worry that the most of the other known/suspected nuke-equipped or potentially nuke-having countries are going to suddenly lose their shit and use them, only North Korea, Iran, Pakistan, and India. That's not a coincidence.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:44 PM on August 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
So true, but I'm pretty sure that's not the only common and certainly not the most obvious shared feature of the leaders the US/Europe typically labels "madmen."
The North Korea situation is nervewracking and stressful, especially for the youngs who weren't around during the Cold War, for which this is all very foreign. And obviously Trump's involvement and the irresponsible news coverage doesn't help any. Plus, y'know, nukes are scary.
But it's also a good idea to interrogate where the outsized fear response to this in some quarters is coming from. Because as cjelli points out upthread, the reality is:
politically, North Korea has NO REASON to ACTUALLY USE nuclear weapons. The only reason some other state would have to use nuclear weapons is if the US uses them first.Kim Jong-un is neither stupid nor suicidal. In terms of how he has handled his country's nuclear program, there is no real evidence to think he's not a rational actor roughly comparable to a bunch of other autocratic assholes, just a ton of political rhetoric based largely on a host of pernicious racist/Orientalist tropes and biases that influence Americans' perceptions.
Nobody really seems to worry that the most of the other known/suspected nuke-equipped or potentially nuke-having countries are going to suddenly lose their shit and use them, only North Korea, Iran, Pakistan, and India. That's not a coincidence.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:44 PM on August 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
"I'm not going to rule out a military option," Trump says of [LITERALLY EVERY COUNTRY]. "We have many options, including military options."See, I thought he meant "we're as close to rioting in the streets as in Venezuela, so I'd better get the constitution rewritten ASAP ..." Gah.
Christ I didn't even realize Venezuela was on his radar, why are we talking about military options against Venezuela? He's opening up his bullshit on too many fronts.
posted by tilde at 3:45 PM on August 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
In that NBC News clip, Nikki Haley looks like someone sitting at a kitchen table staring at a monkey's paw while hearing footsteps dragging up towards the front door.
posted by hanov3r at 3:45 PM on August 11, 2017 [38 favorites]
posted by hanov3r at 3:45 PM on August 11, 2017 [38 favorites]
Kim Jong-un is neither stupid nor suicidal. In terms of how he has handled his country's nuclear program, there is no real evidence to think he's not a rational actor roughly comparable to a bunch of other autocratic assholes, just a ton of political rhetoric based largely on a host of pernicious racist/Orientalist tropes and biases that influence Americans' perceptions.
Yep, and the acquisition of nukes is evidence of that rationality, as my link (hopefully) makes clear.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 3:45 PM on August 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yep, and the acquisition of nukes is evidence of that rationality, as my link (hopefully) makes clear.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 3:45 PM on August 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
"scientists discover new element - named trumpium in honor of our president - tests indicate that it is orange and prone to refuse to interact with anything constructively" (fake)
posted by pyramid termite at 3:46 PM on August 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 3:46 PM on August 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
Christ I didn't even realize Venezuela was on his radar, why are we talking about military options against Venezuela?
Maduro called him the weakest US president in 100 years. (link in Spanish, couldn't find the quote in an English outlet)
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 3:48 PM on August 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
Maduro called him the weakest US president in 100 years. (link in Spanish, couldn't find the quote in an English outlet)
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 3:48 PM on August 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
North Korea, Venezuela, whatever it takes.
Nostradumbass in 2012.
@realDonaldTrump
Polls are starting to look really bad for Obama. Looks like he'll have to start a war or major conflict to win. Don't put it past him!
posted by chris24 at 3:50 PM on August 11, 2017 [18 favorites]
Nostradumbass in 2012.
@realDonaldTrump
Polls are starting to look really bad for Obama. Looks like he'll have to start a war or major conflict to win. Don't put it past him!
posted by chris24 at 3:50 PM on August 11, 2017 [18 favorites]
"scientists discover new element - named trumpium in honor of our president - tests indicate that it is orange and prone to refuse to interact with anything constructively"
And as related upthread, it's so far out of its element it's off the periodic table entirely.
posted by Bringer Tom at 3:52 PM on August 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
And as related upthread, it's so far out of its element it's off the periodic table entirely.
posted by Bringer Tom at 3:52 PM on August 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
@Laura Litvan Trump still going after McConnell, just told reporters he should have taken away committee chairmanships of GOP senators who voted 'no'
The novice to politics is trying to tell the old turtle how to do his job-- that ought to go over very well.
@ Mark Knoller Asked if VP Pence might run for pres in 2020, "I don't think so," said Pres Trump. Calls Pence a "good ally" and "a good friend of mine."
I'm surprised at how restrained this answer is. I would have expected a much more agressive answer from Trump, possibly even a threat, "He better not, if he knows what's good for him. I'll beat the pants off of him."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:01 PM on August 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
The novice to politics is trying to tell the old turtle how to do his job-- that ought to go over very well.
@ Mark Knoller Asked if VP Pence might run for pres in 2020, "I don't think so," said Pres Trump. Calls Pence a "good ally" and "a good friend of mine."
I'm surprised at how restrained this answer is. I would have expected a much more agressive answer from Trump, possibly even a threat, "He better not, if he knows what's good for him. I'll beat the pants off of him."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:01 PM on August 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
Hah, wow I forgot the President makes all the Senate committee assignments.
posted by rhizome at 4:03 PM on August 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 4:03 PM on August 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
If you want to get away from thinking about war, this week's episode of No One Knows Anything podcast was a very good interview with the Co-founder of Sleeping Giants, the group that works to get companies to pull their ads from Breitbart.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:12 PM on August 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:12 PM on August 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
i like dan carlin. if you like him, or think you might, here is 6 hours of 'wtf nuclear weapons are fucked up and bullshit': The Destroyer of Worlds.
Warning, after I listened to this, I became permanently convinced we are all doomed to die in a nuclear apocalypse. And that was months ago. It's excellent, but NOT something to consume if you're trying to calm down.
Also I forgot to do a birthday wish, but it IS my birthday and some late breaking scoop would be nice to distract from the feeling like it might be my LAST. At least my husband is bringing cake.
posted by threeturtles at 4:12 PM on August 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
Warning, after I listened to this, I became permanently convinced we are all doomed to die in a nuclear apocalypse. And that was months ago. It's excellent, but NOT something to consume if you're trying to calm down.
Also I forgot to do a birthday wish, but it IS my birthday and some late breaking scoop would be nice to distract from the feeling like it might be my LAST. At least my husband is bringing cake.
posted by threeturtles at 4:12 PM on August 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
Thing is, Trump has always relished the idea of having nuclear weapons at his disposal, and now he's got them.
As Robert Kelly retweeted earlier today, Trump has spent his entire career making empty threats. Based on past behaviour I think it's unlikely he will follow through on these threats, especially given that he's already saying things that are visibly untrue.
As for the North Korean president, Kelly also points out that his family have been rational enough to stay in power for quite some time (that is really not easy at all) and it would be completely contrary to his self-interest to take actions that would lead directly to South Korea getting nuked.
I mean I personally think Trump would enjoy nuking people, insofar as the concept is real to him. You don't spend decades longing to have that kind of power unless you at least fantasize about using it. However, that doesn't mean he will actually go that far.
I acknowledge that it's a bit different from threatening to sue people and not doing so. Presumably, he didn't carry out threats to sue because he thought he might not win. I mean, if Trump himself thought he could personally escape the effects of a nuclear war he might well go through with it, but I'm pretty sure that even he is not that stupid. You don't get to this point in life without being fairly good at self-preservation.
posted by tel3path at 4:14 PM on August 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
As Robert Kelly retweeted earlier today, Trump has spent his entire career making empty threats. Based on past behaviour I think it's unlikely he will follow through on these threats, especially given that he's already saying things that are visibly untrue.
As for the North Korean president, Kelly also points out that his family have been rational enough to stay in power for quite some time (that is really not easy at all) and it would be completely contrary to his self-interest to take actions that would lead directly to South Korea getting nuked.
I mean I personally think Trump would enjoy nuking people, insofar as the concept is real to him. You don't spend decades longing to have that kind of power unless you at least fantasize about using it. However, that doesn't mean he will actually go that far.
I acknowledge that it's a bit different from threatening to sue people and not doing so. Presumably, he didn't carry out threats to sue because he thought he might not win. I mean, if Trump himself thought he could personally escape the effects of a nuclear war he might well go through with it, but I'm pretty sure that even he is not that stupid. You don't get to this point in life without being fairly good at self-preservation.
posted by tel3path at 4:14 PM on August 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
If you want to stop thinking about the horrors of war and distract yourself with the horrors of the economy (or just get some knowledge to refute people who parrot DJT's claim that the economy is doing well), This Jacobin podcast with host Suzi Weissman and UCLA's Robert Brenner is outstanding.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:16 PM on August 11, 2017
posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:16 PM on August 11, 2017
If you'd like to learn some things about North Korea from a real expert, I highly recommend Bruce Cumings' North Korea.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:19 PM on August 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:19 PM on August 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Some good news:
Daily Beast Mueller’s Targets Face Financial Strain
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:20 PM on August 11, 2017 [25 favorites]
Daily Beast Mueller’s Targets Face Financial Strain
the parting of ways with WilmerHale was also in part because Manafort’s finances are increasingly strained, according to sources familiar with the situation.Trying not to take glee in their misfortunes (because if they were innocent this would be a terrible thing) but it feels good that they are being punished already.
“Paul Manafort’s resolve is limitless, but his resources are not,” said a person close to Manafort.
Manafort isn’t the only person facing financial challenges because of the legal costs of responding to Mueller’s probe. Michael Flynn, the retired general and deposed National Security Adviser, is struggling mightily with his mounting legal bills, according to a source familiar with his situation. The expenses has put his family’s finances under significant duress, the source said, and it’s expected he will soon create a legal defense fund to keep from going bankrupt.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:20 PM on August 11, 2017 [25 favorites]
And I was about to say this: the real targets of these threats are Americans and of course, by extension, the world.
Abusers want you thinking about them *all the time* and what better way to get and hold people's attention than the threat of total annihilation of all life on Earth?
Oh and Robert E. Kelly just tweeted that there won't be a war. Robert E Kelly knows everything. Or at least, something, which puts him infinity percent ahead of his President.
posted by tel3path at 4:21 PM on August 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Abusers want you thinking about them *all the time* and what better way to get and hold people's attention than the threat of total annihilation of all life on Earth?
Oh and Robert E. Kelly just tweeted that there won't be a war. Robert E Kelly knows everything. Or at least, something, which puts him infinity percent ahead of his President.
posted by tel3path at 4:21 PM on August 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Trying not to take glee in their misfortunes (because if they were innocent this would be a terrible thing) but it feels good that they are being punished already.
Nobody on the Death Star is innocent.
posted by Justinian at 4:22 PM on August 11, 2017 [18 favorites]
Nobody on the Death Star is innocent.
posted by Justinian at 4:22 PM on August 11, 2017 [18 favorites]
If there is a micro-thin silver lining to Trump's constant distractability, it's that if he's focusing on Venezuela for the next few days, he's going to lose his momentum on NK because it isn't interesting to him.
posted by Autumnheart at 4:23 PM on August 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Autumnheart at 4:23 PM on August 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
One of my big worries about Trump making these idiotic improvised statements is that they're not being vetted AT ALL through diplomatic or intelligence experts in terms of how they will translate both linguistically and culturally in North Korea. That is really, really reckless.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:24 PM on August 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:24 PM on August 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
I think Trump might be interested in intervening in Venezuela because it allows him to swing his dick around in an oil-rich country, try to get to be popular as a "war president," plus there's no risk of nuclear retaliation.
posted by dhens at 4:26 PM on August 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by dhens at 4:26 PM on August 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
A small 7-10kt weapon of the sort NK can produce...
It's more a case of "how many are available?"
"North Korea’s Nuke Program Is Way More Sophisticated Than You Think." I was surprised that current estimates put their stockpile at 60 weapons. Worse, they seem to have successfully miniaturized them for missile launch; their early testing was failing apparently not because they were incompetent but because they were starting with relatively advanced designs. NK claimed it had thermonuclear capability in Jan. 2016 (disputed).
This is much worse than I'd thought until recently. The probability that they've got a working ICBM with a ~10kt warhead is higher than 1% at this point, which ought to be enough to deter a rational world leader.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 4:27 PM on August 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's more a case of "how many are available?"
"North Korea’s Nuke Program Is Way More Sophisticated Than You Think." I was surprised that current estimates put their stockpile at 60 weapons. Worse, they seem to have successfully miniaturized them for missile launch; their early testing was failing apparently not because they were incompetent but because they were starting with relatively advanced designs. NK claimed it had thermonuclear capability in Jan. 2016 (disputed).
This is much worse than I'd thought until recently. The probability that they've got a working ICBM with a ~10kt warhead is higher than 1% at this point, which ought to be enough to deter a rational world leader.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 4:27 PM on August 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
That's not worse; it's better. The more the DPRK is actually a potential nuclear threat to the United States, the less likely the US will start a fucking war that will kill me and all the people I know and love.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:29 PM on August 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:29 PM on August 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
@Laura Litvan Trump still going after McConnell, just told reporters he should have taken away committee chairmanships of GOP senators who voted 'no'
Hah, wow I forgot the President makes all the Senate committee assignments.
I think that's a misread of that tweet. That tweet is saying that Trump was saying McConnell should have taken away committee chairmanships.
posted by Green With You at 4:36 PM on August 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Hah, wow I forgot the President makes all the Senate committee assignments.
I think that's a misread of that tweet. That tweet is saying that Trump was saying McConnell should have taken away committee chairmanships.
posted by Green With You at 4:36 PM on August 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think that's a misread of that tweet. That tweet is saying that Trump was saying McConnell should have taken away committee chairmanships.
I'm pretty sure rhizome was making a joke because of course the President doesn't make the committee assignments, the Senate Leader does.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:39 PM on August 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
WaPo droppo:
The General Services Administration removed Trump hotel data from its website. You can read it here. (Jonathan O'Connell, WaPo)
The General Services Administration removed Trump hotel data from its website. You can read it here. (Jonathan O'Connell, WaPo)
The documents show the hotel’s financial performance in February, March and April of this year, as well as year-to-date totals, offering far more information about the hotel’s operations than previous disclosures. Up until Thursday, the GSA had only posted heavily redacted versions of the “monthly statement certificates” providing no financial information.posted by Room 641-A at 4:43 PM on August 11, 2017 [37 favorites]
This time, the certificates for February, March and April were almost completely free of redaction, allowing anyone to see the company’s budgeted and actual financial performance for every segment of the hotel (rooms, food/beverage, spa and parking, for instance) along with an analysis of how it is faring against competitors. [...]
Critics of the lease deal immediately wondered if the White House had intervened to have the documents removed. Dixon said no such thing happened. “The White House was not involved,” she wrote. President Trump and his daughter and senior adviser, Ivanka Trump, have resigned from the family business and pledged to remove themselves from its operations.
The Washington Post decided to publish the documents, which it downloaded before they were removed. They are below.
Trying not to take glee in their misfortunes (because if they were innocent this would be a terrible thing)
everybody who put time, effort, labor, and persuasion into getting this idiot sack of shit elected president can go live in a refrigerator box under a highway overpass for the rest of their lives for all I care, whether or not they intentionally sold their country out to Vladimir fucking Putin.
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:45 PM on August 11, 2017 [49 favorites]
everybody who put time, effort, labor, and persuasion into getting this idiot sack of shit elected president can go live in a refrigerator box under a highway overpass for the rest of their lives for all I care, whether or not they intentionally sold their country out to Vladimir fucking Putin.
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:45 PM on August 11, 2017 [49 favorites]
Oddly enough (though apologies if it was posted in the previous threads) I'm actually finding some solace through Clickhole, especially Master Diplomat: Pundits Have Noted Similarities Between Trump’s N. Korea Statements And JFK’s Iconic ‘Prepare To Be Radioactive Skeletons, Motherfuckers’ Speech That De-escalated The Cuban Missile Crisis
I can't say why exactly, I think it's mostly just having something more insane than reality at hand.
posted by AirExplosive at 4:46 PM on August 11, 2017 [21 favorites]
I can't say why exactly, I think it's mostly just having something more insane than reality at hand.
posted by AirExplosive at 4:46 PM on August 11, 2017 [21 favorites]
The more the DPRK is actually a potential nuclear threat to the United States, the less likely the US will start a fucking war that will kill me and all the people I know and love.
Have your calculations taken into account the fact that our president is Donald Trump?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:50 PM on August 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
Have your calculations taken into account the fact that our president is Donald Trump?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:50 PM on August 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
"North Korea’s Nuke Program Is Way More Sophisticated Than You Think."
This link is broken, but most of the conclusions you seem to draw from it are obviously wrong. DPRK does not have truly miniaturized nukes, and if it does have a few half-heartedly miniaturized nukes (there is truly a range between the missile-undeliverable Fat Man and the 1-foot-across fission trigger of a modern H-bomb) it only has a few of them because where is the tritium coming from to build them? And oh yeah they're harder to build than actual H-bombs.
The possibility that they have an ICBM capable of delivering a warhead of any type to the continental USA is zero percent, because they can't do re-entry. They have also shown no skill at navigation/targeting. They haven't even the basis for starting on triggering at the right altitude on a suborbital ballistic approach. I also absolutely don't believe that they have a nuclear bomb of any capacity that weighs less than a few thousand pounds, which means yeah they could hit Seoul but then they can pound the crap out of Seoul with conventional artillery. They might be able to hit some random point on mainland Japan in a fit of suicidal rage. Guam? Good luck with that. It would be quite a demonstration if they pulled it off, and I'd have to eat a few words. Not stocking up on crow seasoning sauce at the moment though.
posted by Bringer Tom at 4:53 PM on August 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
This link is broken, but most of the conclusions you seem to draw from it are obviously wrong. DPRK does not have truly miniaturized nukes, and if it does have a few half-heartedly miniaturized nukes (there is truly a range between the missile-undeliverable Fat Man and the 1-foot-across fission trigger of a modern H-bomb) it only has a few of them because where is the tritium coming from to build them? And oh yeah they're harder to build than actual H-bombs.
The possibility that they have an ICBM capable of delivering a warhead of any type to the continental USA is zero percent, because they can't do re-entry. They have also shown no skill at navigation/targeting. They haven't even the basis for starting on triggering at the right altitude on a suborbital ballistic approach. I also absolutely don't believe that they have a nuclear bomb of any capacity that weighs less than a few thousand pounds, which means yeah they could hit Seoul but then they can pound the crap out of Seoul with conventional artillery. They might be able to hit some random point on mainland Japan in a fit of suicidal rage. Guam? Good luck with that. It would be quite a demonstration if they pulled it off, and I'd have to eat a few words. Not stocking up on crow seasoning sauce at the moment though.
posted by Bringer Tom at 4:53 PM on August 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
@barbarastarrcnn: DOD spox says its not invading #Venezuala "Any insinuations by the Maduro regime that we are planning an invasion are baseless."
Well oiled machine.
posted by zachlipton at 4:53 PM on August 11, 2017 [22 favorites]
Well oiled machine.
posted by zachlipton at 4:53 PM on August 11, 2017 [22 favorites]
NOT INVADERING #Venezuala ...
But #Venezuela had better watch it's smart mouth.
posted by tilde at 4:56 PM on August 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
But #Venezuela had better watch it's smart mouth.
posted by tilde at 4:56 PM on August 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
This link is broken
My apologies: North Korea’s Nuke Program Is Way More Sophisticated Than You Think
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 4:59 PM on August 11, 2017
My apologies: North Korea’s Nuke Program Is Way More Sophisticated Than You Think
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 4:59 PM on August 11, 2017
The effect of one nuclear bomb on the US economy is probably equivalent to one hurricane.
what a callous and fucked up thing to say! If only because one these things is an act of nature and/or God, the other a man made and engineered cataclysm.
posted by philip-random at 5:00 PM on August 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
what a callous and fucked up thing to say! If only because one these things is an act of nature and/or God, the other a man made and engineered cataclysm.
posted by philip-random at 5:00 PM on August 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
"Uncle pbo is gonna Gen-Xplain..."
How do I get this podcast?
posted by eckeric at 5:01 PM on August 11, 2017 [29 favorites]
How do I get this podcast?
posted by eckeric at 5:01 PM on August 11, 2017 [29 favorites]
Have your calculations taken into account the fact that our president is Donald Trump?
Yeah
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:04 PM on August 11, 2017
Yeah
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:04 PM on August 11, 2017
But #Venezuela had better watch it's smart mouth
During this whole episode Trump has been talking like apocalypse dad, not a president. It's been particularly striking, I think. He's going to start WWIII because he's working out his father issues.
One more word out of you and it's up to your room!
posted by Room 641-A at 5:16 PM on August 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
During this whole episode Trump has been talking like apocalypse dad, not a president. It's been particularly striking, I think. He's going to start WWIII because he's working out his father issues.
One more word out of you and it's up to your room!
posted by Room 641-A at 5:16 PM on August 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
God save us from Republicans with daddy issues.
posted by Autumnheart at 5:22 PM on August 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by Autumnheart at 5:22 PM on August 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
For this evening's entertainment, please enjoy this ongoing thread of National Treasure at a wine and painting class responding to Mike Pence's portrait.
posted by zachlipton at 5:22 PM on August 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 5:22 PM on August 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
Uncle pbo is gonna Gen-Xplain
I wish to subscribe and/or contribute to your newsletter/podcast/webthingy
posted by nubs at 5:22 PM on August 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
I wish to subscribe and/or contribute to your newsletter/podcast/webthingy
posted by nubs at 5:22 PM on August 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
And of course, Trump is still making noises about reneging on the Iran agreement that they are living up to, as part of his comprehensive Fuck You Obama program. If he does dump it, or if he even keeps bloviating to that effect, why would Kim or anyone else ever consider any sort of non-proliferation deal with the US again after such a massive display of bad faith?
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:23 PM on August 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:23 PM on August 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
Any insinuations by the Maduro regime that we are planning an invasion are baseless.
Ok what about insinuations from Trump tho
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:23 PM on August 11, 2017 [17 favorites]
Ok what about insinuations from Trump tho
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:23 PM on August 11, 2017 [17 favorites]
God save us from Republicans with daddy issues.
Rich guys--should you ever somehow happen across this--help us all out and hug your fucking sons once in a while, would you?
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:25 PM on August 11, 2017 [34 favorites]
Rich guys--should you ever somehow happen across this--help us all out and hug your fucking sons once in a while, would you?
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:25 PM on August 11, 2017 [34 favorites]
That, of course, should have said National Treasure Alexandra Petri. She's not so treasured so as to have transcended a name, yet, nor is she Nicholas Cage.
posted by zachlipton at 5:31 PM on August 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 5:31 PM on August 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
North Korea’s “not quite” ICBM from the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists. I'm sure that you'll all be relieved to hear that they probably can't quite hit the United States... yet.
posted by Krulth at 5:31 PM on August 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Krulth at 5:31 PM on August 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
For this evening's entertainment, please enjoy this ongoing thread of National Treasure at a wine and painting class responding to Mike Pence's portrait.
I thought it was getting a bit wide in the seat so I suggested she turn it into a portrait of Trump.
I was listening to Can He Do That (this week's episode is Can a President order a Nuclear Strike?) and learned an interesting tidbit. When Nixon resigned he got on the plane to California as President and was to land as private citizen. He expected to fly with the nuclear football but the bureaucracy arranged for it to go to the VP Ford instead. The historian did not say who made the call but Nixon was obviously not in charge. Somebody made the decision he was not to be trusted with that power on his way out.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:32 PM on August 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
I thought it was getting a bit wide in the seat so I suggested she turn it into a portrait of Trump.
I was listening to Can He Do That (this week's episode is Can a President order a Nuclear Strike?) and learned an interesting tidbit. When Nixon resigned he got on the plane to California as President and was to land as private citizen. He expected to fly with the nuclear football but the bureaucracy arranged for it to go to the VP Ford instead. The historian did not say who made the call but Nixon was obviously not in charge. Somebody made the decision he was not to be trusted with that power on his way out.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:32 PM on August 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
Secret Life of Gravy: "the parting of ways with WilmerHale was also in part because Manafort’s finances are increasingly strained, according to sources familiar with the situation."
Interesting. This theory hangs together well with a few other plot points: 1) I posted in the previous megathread about how Manafort likely got caught up with his failson-in-law's real estate investment schemes and had to mortgage a bunch of properties, indicating a possible cash crunch, and 2) in Josh Marshall's close read of the announcement that Manafort is switching legal representation, he notes that the announcement says that Manafort is "in the process" of retaining another firm, indicating that he hadn't yet retained Miller & Chevalier before dropping and/or getting dropped by Wilmer Hale, suggesting a less-than-orderly transition.
Here's another weird thing. Remember back when Manafort retroactively registered as a foreign agent back in June and some people were speculating that this might have been a sign that he was co-operating with the feds since one thing they sometimes make people do is go back and repair various defects in their record. Well, given the no-knock, pre-dawn FBI raid on his house, where does that theory go? Was he never a co-operating witness? If so, then why did he retroactively register? Was he co-operating but then the Feds said "nah, this dude's playing us," and then flipped back on him? Whatever the case, I'm pretty confident in speculating that life sucks pretty bad right now for Paul Manafort. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.
posted by mhum at 5:33 PM on August 11, 2017 [17 favorites]
Interesting. This theory hangs together well with a few other plot points: 1) I posted in the previous megathread about how Manafort likely got caught up with his failson-in-law's real estate investment schemes and had to mortgage a bunch of properties, indicating a possible cash crunch, and 2) in Josh Marshall's close read of the announcement that Manafort is switching legal representation, he notes that the announcement says that Manafort is "in the process" of retaining another firm, indicating that he hadn't yet retained Miller & Chevalier before dropping and/or getting dropped by Wilmer Hale, suggesting a less-than-orderly transition.
Here's another weird thing. Remember back when Manafort retroactively registered as a foreign agent back in June and some people were speculating that this might have been a sign that he was co-operating with the feds since one thing they sometimes make people do is go back and repair various defects in their record. Well, given the no-knock, pre-dawn FBI raid on his house, where does that theory go? Was he never a co-operating witness? If so, then why did he retroactively register? Was he co-operating but then the Feds said "nah, this dude's playing us," and then flipped back on him? Whatever the case, I'm pretty confident in speculating that life sucks pretty bad right now for Paul Manafort. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.
posted by mhum at 5:33 PM on August 11, 2017 [17 favorites]
I'm sure that you'll all be relieved to hear that they probably can't quite hit the United States... yet.
so it falls short and hits in coastal British Columbia somewhere?
posted by philip-random at 5:42 PM on August 11, 2017
so it falls short and hits in coastal British Columbia somewhere?
posted by philip-random at 5:42 PM on August 11, 2017
Things are bad, and David Frum makes them worse
The warhawks who drove the Republicans rightward in the early 2000s likely bear more responsibility for Donald Trump’s ascendancy than all the Russian hackers and “fake news” websites put together, but liberals are more than willing to let them off the hook if they provide limp critiques of their own party as penance. Naturally, many of them are doing just that. The neocons’ strategic retreat from the smoldering wreckage they created was a clever gambit, in many ways reminiscent of a classic insurance scam. Like an insurance scam, it can be wildly successful when carried out with adequate skill and commitment — and no one is more committed than David Frum, the George W. Bush speechwriter who introduced America to the “axis of evil.”posted by the man of twists and turns at 5:44 PM on August 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
GOP-led Senate panel wants White House responses on Kushner's security clearance (Manu Naju, CNN)
(CNN)The Senate Judiciary Committee is calling on the White House to provide new details about President Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner's security clearance application, including whether he could be trusted with sensitive information after he initially failed to disclose meetings with Russian officials.posted by Room 641-A at 5:48 PM on August 11, 2017 [31 favorites]
The committee, led by Republican Chairman Chuck Grassley of Iowa, sent a letter in June to the White House and the FBI asking for a detailed list of questions about Kushner's security clearance form, which he has had to amend multiple times because of his initial failure to disclose meetings with foreign officials. In response, Kushner's outside attorney sent the panel a letter, but the White House has not yet responded to the panel's queries despite a July 6 deadline set by a bipartisan group of senators.
The committee's spokesman, George Hartmann, told CNN Friday that the response from Kushner's attorney does not satisfy the panel's request for information from the White House.
(Facebook was the only link I could find for this, sorry) The Betsy Riot resistance in Lincoln, NB:
Who shall ensure that white nationalist politicians face no unpleasantness as they fuck the country? . . . The Lincoln Journal Star has stepped forward to champion polite behavior. Last week, the editors published . . . an editorial that fingerwags the resistance movement for being too unkind to the people literally trying to kill them. . . . So the Nebraska Betsies drew up their own paper, offering news of the day with actual quotes from this embarrassment of an editorial underlined, as well as examples from history that the paper would have fainted over. They distributed the paper around Lincoln and stood in front of the newspaper offices handing it to employees. We include here a shot of the full page as well as zoomed-in photos of the individual stories.posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 5:48 PM on August 11, 2017 [28 favorites]
Christ I didn't even realize Venezuela was on his radar, why are we talking about military options against Venezuela?
We're ready to bomb/strike/invade North Korea if they threaten us (except we're totally not ready at all). We're also ready to bomb/strike/invade Venezuela if, uh...if they fall so deep into chaos they can't threaten us and aren't even thinking about us?
Maduro called him the weakest US president in 100 years.
Truth hurts.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:51 PM on August 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
We're ready to bomb/strike/invade North Korea if they threaten us (except we're totally not ready at all). We're also ready to bomb/strike/invade Venezuela if, uh...if they fall so deep into chaos they can't threaten us and aren't even thinking about us?
Maduro called him the weakest US president in 100 years.
Truth hurts.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:51 PM on August 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
What the ever loving fuck. Texas strikes again!
groop speak BREAKING: Texas House Passes Bill To Make Women Buy ‘Rape Insurance’
groop speak BREAKING: Texas House Passes Bill To Make Women Buy ‘Rape Insurance’
Texas, has just passed a bill in the House of Representatives that will essentially force women to buy rape insurance if they seek to have an abortion.They frame it as rape insurance but this would also mean buying suplemental coverage to get an abortion to save your life
Critics of the bill are calling it especially cruel and a detriment to women’s health in general. If put into law, the bill will take effect as soon as Dec. 1 and force women to buy supplemental plans if they wish to have abortions, even if induced by rape.
Considering the Senate has already passed a very similar measure, and Governor Greg Abbott has already come out publicly showing his support, it’s only a matter of time before the bill gets signed.
Currently, 10 other states ban private insurance plans from covering abortions. Texas is about to be added to that list.posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:58 PM on August 11, 2017 [33 favorites]
Rex has a score to settle with Maduro, and Rubio thinks Venezuelan Americans can help him politically. They've both been agitating about this for awhile.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:00 PM on August 11, 2017
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:00 PM on August 11, 2017
We're ready to bomb/strike/invade North Korea if they threaten us (except we're totally not ready at all). We're also ready to bomb/strike/invade Venezuela if, uh...if they fall so deep into chaos they can't threaten us and aren't even thinking about us?
And Iran, and Syria, and for like five minutes waaay back there eons ago shortly after Trump got into office, China too. He'll probably burn through the countries we have rocky relationships with and start threatening allies by year's end. Except Russia, of course.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:03 PM on August 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
And Iran, and Syria, and for like five minutes waaay back there eons ago shortly after Trump got into office, China too. He'll probably burn through the countries we have rocky relationships with and start threatening allies by year's end. Except Russia, of course.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:03 PM on August 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
What does surprise me is that not a single Trump-whisperer has emerged. Is there no one who has his ear to even warn off the most disastrous turns of phrase?
Ivanka tries, supposedly. However, in my experience you can't really tame crazy, even if you're the child he wishes he could uh, date, and theoretically you have the most leverage of anyone. It just isn't much. Truly, nobody can "tame" this beast because the beast listens to no one but the snarling in his heart.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:15 PM on August 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Ivanka tries, supposedly. However, in my experience you can't really tame crazy, even if you're the child he wishes he could uh, date, and theoretically you have the most leverage of anyone. It just isn't much. Truly, nobody can "tame" this beast because the beast listens to no one but the snarling in his heart.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:15 PM on August 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Maduro called him the weakest US president in 100 years.
For those who don't want to do the math, Woodrow Wilson had his stroke 98 years ago.
posted by Etrigan at 6:18 PM on August 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
For those who don't want to do the math, Woodrow Wilson had his stroke 98 years ago.
posted by Etrigan at 6:18 PM on August 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
In case anyone is wondering how the CREW crew's emoluments case is progressing, oral arguments start October 18th.
posted by triggerfinger at 6:20 PM on August 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by triggerfinger at 6:20 PM on August 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
Congressional Investigators Want to Question Trump's Longtime Secretary, Rhona Graff, In Russia Probe
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:28 PM on August 11, 2017 [43 favorites]
Congressional investigators want to question President Donald Trump’s longtime personal secretary as part of their ongoing probe into a controversial meeting between Trump campaign officials and a Russian lawyer promising dirt on Hillary Clinton, ABC News has learned.[...]Meredith better lawyer up.
"I can also send this info to your father via Rhona," Goldstone wrote Donald Jr. in the email, "but it is ultra sensitive so wanted to send to you first."[...]
According to sources familiar with Trump's habits, Graff would often receive emails on his behalf and print them out for his review. If Trump felt the need to respond he would write on the print out -- typically with a Sharpie pen -- and hand it back to Graff so should could scan the message and send it on electronically.
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:28 PM on August 11, 2017 [43 favorites]
NPR Mueller Turns Up The Heat With Unusual Search Warrant In Russia Probe
the special counsel investigating Russian interference in last year's presidential election is moving with unusual speed and assertiveness, according to half a dozen legal experts following the probe.[...]In any case, the Justice Department frequently deploys tough tactics with a larger goal in mind: securing the cooperation of insiders who can guide authorities through a complex investigation and help deliver bigger targets.posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:30 PM on August 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
"I call it 'climbing the ladder,' " Jeffress said. "It happens in every corporate investigation," where investigators question clerks and assistants, and then move up to vice presidents and higher-level executives.
Down memory lane - and I really hope that this is not the last thread: MetaFilter in the Ruins (Plus The original 2003 thread). (Hat tip: Rhaomi)
posted by growabrain at 6:49 PM on August 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by growabrain at 6:49 PM on August 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
North Korea’s “not quite” ICBM from the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists. I'm sure that you'll all be relieved to hear that they probably can't quite hit the United States... yet. posted by Krulth at 8:31 PM on August 11 [2 favorites +] [!]
Actual title: "... Can't hit the lower 48". Sorry Guam, Northern Mariana Islands, American Samoa, Alaska, Hawaii; you know we love you too.
posted by achrise at 6:56 PM on August 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Actual title: "... Can't hit the lower 48". Sorry Guam, Northern Mariana Islands, American Samoa, Alaska, Hawaii; you know we love you too.
posted by achrise at 6:56 PM on August 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
So Trump's strategy is to hold off on totally provoking North Korea to fire its nukes until they can reach California, one state that he'd love to write off, right? (Because the NRA sick joke about Sacramento/Guam is totally official policy, right?).
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:02 PM on August 11, 2017
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:02 PM on August 11, 2017
Is this stuff so hard? Is he really such a fucking wildcard that he can't even be steered?
Yes, if the multiple professional psychiatrists organisations who have broken with many years of adherence to professional ethical guidelines against diagnosing public figures in absentia to say that, yes, Trump shows worryingly blatant and typical symptoms of malignant narcissism are right, then yes, it's exactly that hard and he really legitimately is that much of an unpredictable, self-aggrandizing wild card. That's all baked right into the disorder and it's a morbid one that can't be treated.
posted by saulgoodman at 7:15 PM on August 11, 2017 [31 favorites]
Yes, if the multiple professional psychiatrists organisations who have broken with many years of adherence to professional ethical guidelines against diagnosing public figures in absentia to say that, yes, Trump shows worryingly blatant and typical symptoms of malignant narcissism are right, then yes, it's exactly that hard and he really legitimately is that much of an unpredictable, self-aggrandizing wild card. That's all baked right into the disorder and it's a morbid one that can't be treated.
posted by saulgoodman at 7:15 PM on August 11, 2017 [31 favorites]
NYT, Coral Davenport and Eric Lipton, Scott Pruitt Is Carrying Out His E.P.A. Agenda in Secret, Critics Say
The Hill, Jessie Hellmann, Abrupt Trump cuts to teen pregnancy program surprise groups
Max Boot, Foreign Policy: Fox News Has Completed Its Transformation Into Trump TV
posted by zachlipton at 7:17 PM on August 11, 2017 [39 favorites]
When career employees of the Environmental Protection Agency are summoned to a meeting with the agency’s administrator, Scott Pruitt, at agency headquarters, they no longer can count on easy access to the floor where his office is, according to interviews with employees of the federal agency.NYT, Peter Baker, Combative Trump Pulls His Punches for One Man: Putin
Doors to the floor are now frequently locked, and employees have to have an escort to gain entrance.
Some employees say they are also told to leave behind their cellphones when they meet with Mr. Pruitt, and are sometimes told not to take notes.
Mr. Pruitt, according to the employees, who requested anonymity out of fear of losing their jobs, often makes important phone calls from other offices rather than use the phone in his office, and he is accompanied, even at E.P.A. headquarters, by armed guards, the first head of the agency to ever request round-the-clock security.
The roster of villains in President Trump’s world is legion. The list of people he has been willing, even eager, to publicly attack includes not just Mitch McConnell, his latest target, but Jeff Sessions, Chuck Schumer, Paul D. Ryan, John McCain, Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton and Barack Obama.A good summary of Omarosa Manigault's NABJ panel from BuzzFeed. Apparently, Manigault was going to appear alone with a moderator, but they changed it at the last minute to be with a panel including Valerie Castile, the mother of Philando Castile, and Sandra Sterling, the aunt of Alton Sterling. The Root had reporters in the room, and their wrap-up of tweets is useful: Omarosa Made an Appearance at NABJ and That Shit Did Not Go Over Well
And don’t forget James B. Comey, Robert S. Mueller III, Andrew G. McCabe, Rod J. Rosenstein, John D. Podesta, Nancy Pelosi, Lisa Murkowski, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Rosie O’Donnell, Meryl Streep, the mayor of London and the cast of “Saturday Night Live.” The countries he has assailed include not just North Korea and Iran but also Germany, Canada, Mexico, China and Sweden.
But for all of that feistiness, for all of those verbal and online fisticuffs, there is one person who is definitely not on Mr. Trump’s target list: President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia.
The Hill, Jessie Hellmann, Abrupt Trump cuts to teen pregnancy program surprise groups
The Trump administration has abruptly cut short grant programs aimed at ending teen pregnancy, leaving the institutions that receive the funds scrambling for answers.Mother Jones: New York Becomes First City to Guarantee Lawyers to Tenants Facing Eviction
An office within the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) notified 81 institutions across the U.S. that the five-year grants they were awarded would end two years sooner than planned.
The Teen Pregnancy Prevention Program (TPPP), a national program created in 2010 under former President Barack Obama, funds organizations working to reduce and prevent teen pregnancy, with a focus on reaching populations with the greatest need.
But HHS informed the recipients in their annual grant award letters that programs would end next year rather than in 2020, a cut of about $200 million over two years.
Max Boot, Foreign Policy: Fox News Has Completed Its Transformation Into Trump TV
While other networks are covering Trump’s myriad setbacks and scandals, Fox presents an alternative reality in which the bumbling president is close to infallible (except when he splits with fellow populist Jeff Sessions), his critics are “snowflakes,” and the biggest threat facing America is, depending on the day of the week, either the Hillary Clinton email scandal, “the war on Christmas,” or “political correctness.” It’s all too reminiscent of the Soviet-era TV stations that ran stories about record grain harvests even as grocery shelves were bare.And finally, here's Petri's finished product for the Pence portrait. I looked into the tentacle situation.
Bill O’Reilly’s 8 p.m. time slot has been taken by Tucker Carlson, a smirking preppy with a perpetual look of befuddlement on his face as if he had just misplaced his bowtie. He is even more unpleasant than his blowhard predecessor, as I discovered when I appeared on his show July 12. It was, as I later wrote, like having “a barrel of raw sewage dumped on my head.”
posted by zachlipton at 7:17 PM on August 11, 2017 [39 favorites]
Um, does the NRA know how close Sacramento is to California's Trump country?
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 7:19 PM on August 11, 2017
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 7:19 PM on August 11, 2017
Oops, one more, from Politico: Kelly considers further shuffling of West Wing staff, officials say:
posted by zachlipton at 7:24 PM on August 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
White House chief of staff John Kelly spent this week in Bedminster, N.J., pondering changes in the West Wing, according to four White House officials.Also in there: "Trade restrictions on China that Bannon heavily worked on are expected to be announced Monday, a sign of his continued influence." Because Friday wasn't busy enough threatening two shooting wars, we need a trade war on Monday too?
Kelly summoned aides to President Donald Trump’s golf club there to ask about their portfolios and make suggestions on how to make the West Wing communicate better and get more done, while giving people clear responsibilities and then holding them accountable. The role of chief strategist Steve Bannon has come under particular scrutiny in several conversations, particularly because he has a large staff, including an outside public relations expert, but no specific duties.
In a number of daily meetings, Kelly generated a list of concerns, including aides without clear portfolios, decisions that aren’t made with proper vetting and internal fights — particularly a sustained campaign against national security adviser H.R. McMaster. He has met with top aides, including the president’s son-in-law Jared Kushner, about making changes, the four officials say. In some of the encounters, he has suggested that people should be more concerned with the president’s agenda and less concerned with their own.
...
The increased chatter has raised eyebrows inside the White House about Bannon's future. The chief strategist has stayed in Washington while many of the senior aides have been in New Jersey. Aides in Bedminster and in Washington say they fear Bannon is spreading damaging information about his colleagues.
...
“General Kelly has done a fantastic job,” Trump said. “‘Chief,’ I call him, ‘Chief.’ He’s a respected man, he’s a four-star general from the Marines, and he carries himself like a four-star from the Marines.”
posted by zachlipton at 7:24 PM on August 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
From zachlipton's NYT Putin article:
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 7:34 PM on August 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
Some foreign policy scholars said that even if there was nothing untoward betwee the Trump campaign and Russia, the presdient and his team may be soft-pedaling criticism of Mr. Putin in hopes of striking a grand bargain on Syria and the Islamic State.This reeks of nth-dimensional chess wishful thinking. Putin is his dad, a volatile benefactor who must be talked up to friends and protected from inquiry lest his gifts be supplanted by punishment. Deliver us from daddy issues indeed.
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 7:34 PM on August 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
Oh, and on Joe Heim's twitter, you can follow ~150 white supremacists marching with (tiki) torches at UVA chanting "blood and soil," with more expected in Charlottesville tomorrow.
This is straight up nazi shit.
posted by zachlipton at 7:36 PM on August 11, 2017 [29 favorites]
This is straight up nazi shit.
posted by zachlipton at 7:36 PM on August 11, 2017 [29 favorites]
Trump speaks with Guam’s governor in extremely candid phone call (WLWT-5)
Calvo said, “With all the criticism that’s going on over there from a guy that’s being targeted, we need a president like you.”posted by Room 641-A at 7:37 PM on August 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Trump praised the military, bashed an “obstructionist Congress” and told Calvo how tourism would be boosted for Guam without spending money.
“You’ve become extremely famous,” Trump said. “All over the world they’re talking about Guam.”
2017: "This is straight up nazi shit."
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:38 PM on August 11, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:38 PM on August 11, 2017 [26 favorites]
The myth and the proof of the individual.
7.some billion individuals on this world who can't do a damn thing for change.
One single individual controlling it.
posted by Evilspork at 7:41 PM on August 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
7.some billion individuals on this world who can't do a damn thing for change.
One single individual controlling it.
posted by Evilspork at 7:41 PM on August 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
“You’ve become extremely famous,” Trump said. “All over the world they’re talking about Guam.”
oh my fucking god that's all that matters to him.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:41 PM on August 11, 2017 [68 favorites]
oh my fucking god that's all that matters to him.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:41 PM on August 11, 2017 [68 favorites]
Calvo has to be all "WTF is this shit," and when Guam can dunk on the US, you know it's bad.
posted by rhizome at 7:42 PM on August 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by rhizome at 7:42 PM on August 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hang on, did Trump just say that Guam is going to be a tourist destination because it's theoretically being targeted by NK war heads!?
Sometimes I can't seem to grok the level of madness that 2017 has become because it's just too vast and then something like this slaps me in the face.
posted by gofargogo at 7:42 PM on August 11, 2017 [37 favorites]
Sometimes I can't seem to grok the level of madness that 2017 has become because it's just too vast and then something like this slaps me in the face.
posted by gofargogo at 7:42 PM on August 11, 2017 [37 favorites]
I choose all my holiday destinations in hope of nuclear annihilation!
posted by chiquitita at 7:43 PM on August 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by chiquitita at 7:43 PM on August 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
Max Boot, Foreign Policy: Fox News Has Completed Its Transformation Into Trump TV
This is the most surprising/disappointing media development, considering what I've heard about the feelings of Rupert Murdoch AND his two sons (apparently much better than Trump's sons) and the loss of key Trumpsters Roger (R.I.P.) Ailes and Bill (ORLY?) O'Reilly. Carlson isn't a hard-core Trumpeter, but he appears to be "just following orders" like the airheads feeding talking points on Fox and Friends. And I haven't heard much more from Token Journalist Shep Smith in the last week since he made serious headlines...
“You’ve become extremely famous,” Trump said. “All over the world they’re talking about Guam.”
oh my fucking god that's all that matters to him.
I've heard that the big message of the last chapter of his "Art of the Deal" book is "bad publicity is better than no publicity", and it HAS been the way he's led his life... quite successfully.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:45 PM on August 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
This is the most surprising/disappointing media development, considering what I've heard about the feelings of Rupert Murdoch AND his two sons (apparently much better than Trump's sons) and the loss of key Trumpsters Roger (R.I.P.) Ailes and Bill (ORLY?) O'Reilly. Carlson isn't a hard-core Trumpeter, but he appears to be "just following orders" like the airheads feeding talking points on Fox and Friends. And I haven't heard much more from Token Journalist Shep Smith in the last week since he made serious headlines...
“You’ve become extremely famous,” Trump said. “All over the world they’re talking about Guam.”
oh my fucking god that's all that matters to him.
I've heard that the big message of the last chapter of his "Art of the Deal" book is "bad publicity is better than no publicity", and it HAS been the way he's led his life... quite successfully.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:45 PM on August 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
I kind of want to see them try to actually burn something down with those tiki torches. They're equally likely to set themselves on fire as a building.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:51 PM on August 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:51 PM on August 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Here's the video (facebook link) of Trump's call with the Governor of Guam and here's the transcript of him talking about tourism:
Did Gov. Calvo check with anyone before recording his call with the President and posting it on Facebook?
posted by zachlipton at 7:53 PM on August 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
I have to say Eddie, you're going to become extremely famous. All over the world they're talking about Guam and they're talking about you. And your tourism, I can say this, your tourism is going to go up like tenfold with the expenditure of no money so I congratulate you. It looks beautiful, you know I'm watching...it's such a big story in the news it just looks like a beautiful place.All he does is watch stuff on TV, even Guam. It looks like Trump reads the New York Post (Guam sees apocalyptic threat as new tourism opportunity) and not USA Today (North Korean threats already affecting Guam tourism).
Did Gov. Calvo check with anyone before recording his call with the President and posting it on Facebook?
posted by zachlipton at 7:53 PM on August 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Also realize UVA students are not on campus yet. That's why there's no resistance in these photos. They're marching around an empty campus, not taking this clown show to west Baltimore.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:53 PM on August 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:53 PM on August 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
In case it wasn't obvious that "conservative" is code for "raving sociopath," a few of the quotes in this NYT story ("‘We’ve Had Enough’: Conservatives Relish the ‘Fury’ in Trump’s Talk") should make it nauseatingly clear. For example, witness what these ostensible specimens of the human race emit from their face-holes:
posted by informavore at 7:54 PM on August 11, 2017 [48 favorites]
“It doesn’t concern me,” said Zach Lozier, who was tucking into a barbecue dinner with his family Thursday at the Morgan County Fair in Brush, Colo. “We live in the safest part of the whole country.”I guess tell me again about how we should keep an open mind and try to reach out to the misunderstood Trump voters, no matter what sort of gutless murderous bluster they spew. Christ, this country.
[...]
“He needs to step all over that little twerp,” said John Stout, 71, who sat with three retired friends over coffee at the Sinclair gas station in Wiggins, Colo., on Thursday. The other men nodded in agreement. “If it had been me up there,” Mr. Stout continued, “I’d have done it a lot quicker.”
Mr. Stout said he did not fear for his safety, and hoped that Mr. Trump would take action to “take out” the North Korean leader’s nuclear abilities.
“Hell yes,” he said. “And they can pinpoint it to where they are not killing a lot of innocent people. That will be the big goal there.”
posted by informavore at 7:54 PM on August 11, 2017 [48 favorites]
That reminds me. I didn't see this:
Airbnb Cancels Accounts Linked to White Nationalist Rally in Charlottesville (Jonah Engle Bromwich, NYT)
posted by Room 641-A at 8:00 PM on August 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
Airbnb Cancels Accounts Linked to White Nationalist Rally in Charlottesville (Jonah Engle Bromwich, NYT)
Airbnb has canceled a number of accounts and bookings associated with the Unite the Right Free Speech Rally, which “seeks to affirm the right of Southerners and white people to organize for their interests,” according to an event description on Facebook.Would Manchin take the Cabinetnjob? He knows what's at stake.
Airbnb confirmed that it had canceled the accounts of some users who were involved with the event, citing the company’s request that its users sign a commitment to “accept people regardless of their race, religion, national origin, ethnicity, disability, sex, gender identity, sexual orientation, or age.”
A thread on The Daily Stormer, a neo-Nazi news website, that showed that some of the site’s users had planned their stays on Airbnb — and were preparing to hold parties at their rentals after the event — was flagged to the company, prompting an investigation.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:00 PM on August 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
Stephen Miller or "Eric Putin?" Dude sure looks like a Russian agent straight out of Central Casting.
posted by wierdo at 8:09 PM on August 11, 2017
posted by wierdo at 8:09 PM on August 11, 2017
“If it had been me up there,” Mr. Stout continued, “I’d have done it a lot quicker.”
"And I would have totally banged Betty Stuckerson too if it'd been me taking her to the prom instead of Harry," Stout proclaimed. "And then it would have been me running the new Jiffy Lube and not him!"
A single tear fell into his rapidly cooling coffee.
posted by downtohisturtles at 8:10 PM on August 11, 2017 [28 favorites]
"And I would have totally banged Betty Stuckerson too if it'd been me taking her to the prom instead of Harry," Stout proclaimed. "And then it would have been me running the new Jiffy Lube and not him!"
A single tear fell into his rapidly cooling coffee.
posted by downtohisturtles at 8:10 PM on August 11, 2017 [28 favorites]
This is only tangentially related to #potus45, but it might be helpful to women and minorities speaking out publicly against Trump in online spaces:
Teen Vogue | We Need to Talk about Online Harassment | Lauren Duca
At the end of the article she has some resources for those wishing to take action or support visible (and vulnerable) women activists.
posted by xyzzy at 8:12 PM on August 11, 2017 [21 favorites]
Teen Vogue | We Need to Talk about Online Harassment | Lauren Duca
At the end of the article she has some resources for those wishing to take action or support visible (and vulnerable) women activists.
posted by xyzzy at 8:12 PM on August 11, 2017 [21 favorites]
“If it had been me up there,” Mr. Stout continued, “I’d have done it a lot quicker.”
They hate us for our freedom, dontcha know.
posted by Rykey at 8:13 PM on August 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
They hate us for our freedom, dontcha know.
posted by Rykey at 8:13 PM on August 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
odinsdream: that is fucked. just horrible.
posted by Golem XIV at 8:20 PM on August 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Golem XIV at 8:20 PM on August 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's why they voted for him and still love his shtick: he's the patron saint of all proudly pig-ignorant, mindlessly aggro, big-talking bozos and their enablers everywhere -- city, suburb, and smalltown, at every class stratum, in every walk of life.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:25 PM on August 11, 2017 [42 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:25 PM on August 11, 2017 [42 favorites]
Trump refused to accept a phone call from Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro.
This is fine.
posted by Superplin at 8:27 PM on August 11, 2017 [22 favorites]
This is fine.
posted by Superplin at 8:27 PM on August 11, 2017 [22 favorites]
I witnessed something last year that I keep coming back to when talking about Trump voters. The Target near me is an urban one so the store is up top and underneath is the parking garage. I was there with my son when three motorcycles rolled in. LOUD ones, the ones that have been specifically souped up to be as ear-splitting as possible. They came into this enclosed, concrete space with a lot of kids on a Sunday and proceeded to very much on purpose rev their engines needlessly for a solid minute in between parking (IN THE HANDICAPPED SPOTS WITH NO DISPLAYED TAGS) and turning their bikes off. Children were screaming and crying and holding their ears. My own son was inconsolable. I was fucking FURIOUS. Even though we were actually about to leave, I marched right back into the store and told the security guard what had happened (spoiler: he didn't give a shit or pretend to give a shit) and I also left them a note on one of their bikes saying "Congratulations, you are assholes." Even though I knew they'd love to be called an asshole.
Anyway, those people took delight in making kids cry and taking parking away from disabled people. And then went fucking shopping at Target because I guess assholes need tube socks. They are out there in great numbers, those people who enjoy hurting other people. Maybe they don't enjoy it enough to do something overt that might bring some actual punishment, but they're absolutely out there to do banal evil shit or enable someone else to do actual evil shit if it will hurt anyone but themselves. It's the only way these people know how to leave a mark on the world: cause distress, piss people off, hurt, offend. They're too cowardly to get in real trouble, but they're happy to deputize Donald Trump to fuck up the world for them. And they rely on the rest of us being powerless, or being too polite or afraid to say anything or to endlessly give them the benefit of the doubt. I'm kind of all done with that.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:27 PM on August 11, 2017 [103 favorites]
Anyway, those people took delight in making kids cry and taking parking away from disabled people. And then went fucking shopping at Target because I guess assholes need tube socks. They are out there in great numbers, those people who enjoy hurting other people. Maybe they don't enjoy it enough to do something overt that might bring some actual punishment, but they're absolutely out there to do banal evil shit or enable someone else to do actual evil shit if it will hurt anyone but themselves. It's the only way these people know how to leave a mark on the world: cause distress, piss people off, hurt, offend. They're too cowardly to get in real trouble, but they're happy to deputize Donald Trump to fuck up the world for them. And they rely on the rest of us being powerless, or being too polite or afraid to say anything or to endlessly give them the benefit of the doubt. I'm kind of all done with that.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:27 PM on August 11, 2017 [103 favorites]
I think I saw a link in one of these threads to an article with a timeline of various administration scandals (particularly Russia-related) lined up against Trump doing or tweeting something insane. Am I imagining this? Because I feel like it is relevant to this situation.
It would be craven enough if he was just tweeting or talking--but he has the temperament to actually do terrible things in an effort to distract everyone.
posted by Anonymous at 8:38 PM on August 11, 2017
It would be craven enough if he was just tweeting or talking--but he has the temperament to actually do terrible things in an effort to distract everyone.
posted by Anonymous at 8:38 PM on August 11, 2017
prefpara: Sorry, have we discussed the reports that China has said that "It Will Stay Neutral If US Acts in Self-Defense Following DPRK First Strike, Will Go to War With US If US Strikes First"
I don't know whether I feel relieved or terrified
Artw: China wins most sane, least warlike. Unfortunately....
Experts agree: China is the adult in the room, and is trying to wind down the two idiot children who keep taunting each other:
In other words, you can feel relieved.
And another mark for "don't sweat (yet)": Despite Trump's Escalating Rhetoric, Little Evidence Of War Preparations (NPR, Aug. 11, 2017) -- in short, the U.S. aircraft carrier USS Ronald Reagan just ended a three-month deployment in the region and returned to its port in Japan, and no one has sent evacuation notices to U.S. citizens in South Korea, assuming the people in positions to do this are 1) informed from their directors to send such notices, and 2) that those positions are even filled at this time.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:48 PM on August 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
I don't know whether I feel relieved or terrified
Artw: China wins most sane, least warlike. Unfortunately....
Experts agree: China is the adult in the room, and is trying to wind down the two idiot children who keep taunting each other:
So I think by saying that, the Global Times, the Chinese newspaper, is trying to do two things. One is to show the international community that we, China, is taking actions. And on the other hand, China also wants to send a warning to North Korea that if you continue your provocation, there might be a day that we are not going to come to your rescue.Yun Sun, senior associate with the East Asia Program at the Stimson Center in Washington, D.C., on NPR today.
In other words, you can feel relieved.
And another mark for "don't sweat (yet)": Despite Trump's Escalating Rhetoric, Little Evidence Of War Preparations (NPR, Aug. 11, 2017) -- in short, the U.S. aircraft carrier USS Ronald Reagan just ended a three-month deployment in the region and returned to its port in Japan, and no one has sent evacuation notices to U.S. citizens in South Korea, assuming the people in positions to do this are 1) informed from their directors to send such notices, and 2) that those positions are even filled at this time.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:48 PM on August 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
More thoughts from NPR stories today: after hearing that Trump has talked a lot about law enforcement getting more resources to address the opioid emergency in the U.S., it made me think: maybe police will have to consider focusing on opioid related crimes or detaining immigrants, and opt to focus on the issue that is actually killing people.
Fuckin' 2017, when I hope the police are too busy dealing with a public health crisis to focus on their racist tendencies.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:53 PM on August 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Fuckin' 2017, when I hope the police are too busy dealing with a public health crisis to focus on their racist tendencies.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:53 PM on August 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yes, there was a woman reporter tonight on Washington Week in Review who pointed out that none of the military in the region are on high alert, dependents are not being evacuated, not even the ones stationed in Guam.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 9:02 PM on August 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by TWinbrook8 at 9:02 PM on August 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Yes, there was a woman reporter tonight on Washington Week in Review who pointed out that none of the military in the region are on high alert, dependents are not being evacuated, not even the ones stationed in Guam.
Can confirm, wife's sister is a military spouse, with 4 month old, stationed on Guam.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:04 PM on August 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
Can confirm, wife's sister is a military spouse, with 4 month old, stationed on Guam.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:04 PM on August 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
And another mark for "don't sweat (yet)": Despite Trump's Escalating Rhetoric, Little Evidence Of War Preparations
What I'm worried about almost as much as the nukes is that he'll be all WAR IS DECLARED without any preparation, minimal deployments in the area and forces busy elsewhere, no wartime logistics planned out, no approval from Congress or backing from the Pentagon... and everyone will trip over themselves trying to make it happen just to make the stupid baby happy.
Although, I give even odds in that situation that everyone will try to pretend it never happened.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:06 PM on August 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
What I'm worried about almost as much as the nukes is that he'll be all WAR IS DECLARED without any preparation, minimal deployments in the area and forces busy elsewhere, no wartime logistics planned out, no approval from Congress or backing from the Pentagon... and everyone will trip over themselves trying to make it happen just to make the stupid baby happy.
Although, I give even odds in that situation that everyone will try to pretend it never happened.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:06 PM on August 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
Isn't the whole problem that this isn't a thing he's preparing for? It's not a strategy, he's either going to give the order to fire out of the blue, or he's going to keep saying insane shit until he scares Kim Jong Un enough to fire first. There may not be any preparation for shit hitting the fan before it does in fact hit the fan.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:09 PM on August 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:09 PM on August 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
Looks like Roger has chosen a side in the Bannon-McMaster battle.
@RogerJStoneJr:
A friend I had dinner with in dc ran into @StevenKBannon on the street - mistook him for a homeless bum #CheifStrategistNot
posted by chris24 at 9:10 PM on August 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
@RogerJStoneJr:
A friend I had dinner with in dc ran into @StevenKBannon on the street - mistook him for a homeless bum #CheifStrategistNot
posted by chris24 at 9:10 PM on August 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
“You’ve become extremely famous,” Trump said. “All over the world they’re talking about Guam.”
And now we know how he'll handle calls to mayors and governors of places hit by natural disasters. Or the victims of the next mass shooting.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:18 PM on August 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
And now we know how he'll handle calls to mayors and governors of places hit by natural disasters. Or the victims of the next mass shooting.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:18 PM on August 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
He...made a "not" joke in...a hashtag...that he misspelled?
"God's Not Dead" was the first idiotic email forward to become a movie. Is he the first racist uncle Facebook post to become a real boy?
posted by middleclasstool at 9:18 PM on August 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
"God's Not Dead" was the first idiotic email forward to become a movie. Is he the first racist uncle Facebook post to become a real boy?
posted by middleclasstool at 9:18 PM on August 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
2017: pick a side, Roger Stone or Steve Bannon
PBO: fuck you die in a fire
2017: we might, ha ha! we all might.
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:20 PM on August 11, 2017 [34 favorites]
PBO: fuck you die in a fire
2017: we might, ha ha! we all might.
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:20 PM on August 11, 2017 [34 favorites]
My suspicion is that the state of emergency declaration is the simple first step to major repression.
posted by anadem at 9:25 PM on August 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by anadem at 9:25 PM on August 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
and everyone will trip over themselves trying to make it happen just to make the stupid baby happy.
Please, enough with the insults to babies. Babies bring joy to the world.
posted by CommonSense at 9:26 PM on August 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
Please, enough with the insults to babies. Babies bring joy to the world.
posted by CommonSense at 9:26 PM on August 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
Tom Perriello: For those dismissing this alt-right racist hate as fringe, remember neo-confederate CoreyStewart just got half Repub primary vote for VA Gov
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:26 PM on August 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:26 PM on August 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
Did anyone punch Richard Spencer at this one? It seems like it's about time.
posted by Justinian at 9:27 PM on August 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 9:27 PM on August 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
There weren't enough counter protesters around in the middle of summer break. The few people on campus looked severely outnumbered. Tomorrow was the day advertised for counter protests, but all the KKK people are out of town, they showed up early tonight.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:30 PM on August 11, 2017
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:30 PM on August 11, 2017
[edit window abuse, sorry]
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:37 PM on August 11, 2017
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:37 PM on August 11, 2017
I'm heartsick at this. Thousands of miles away from Charlottesville, I don't know what to do. I can't imagine being a PoC and living there. I don't even recognize my country anymore. (And I know that's incredibly privileged. To many, this is par for the American course. I've just been blind.)
posted by greermahoney at 9:38 PM on August 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by greermahoney at 9:38 PM on August 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Same. It's my hometown. I'm used to genteel, polite Southern racism, not this literal torch-bearing, violent Klan stuff. And the "polite" shit was bad enough. Heartsick, indeed. Appalled. Disturbed.
posted by gingerbeer at 9:52 PM on August 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by gingerbeer at 9:52 PM on August 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
I seriously hope that there's an influencer of Kim Jong Un who can convince him that "Donnie's really stupid and crazy, just jolly him on and not actually cross the letter of the lines that he's spouting off. You'll look like a strong leader, especially if you act like one!"
(imagine Un vs Donnie trying to look the most "statesmanly.")
If NK was serious about playing, they'd do everything to violate the spiritual definition of Donnie's impotent little temper tantrum "ultimatums" but stay within (an ever more maleable) legal bits of international law. Keep Donnie's support staff floundering, goad him into making more unforced errors.
Oops. Guess NK has been doing a decent rookie job. Jebus, Donnie is giving NK a free diplomacy lesson with not a lot of consequences for mistakes.
posted by porpoise at 10:03 PM on August 11, 2017
(imagine Un vs Donnie trying to look the most "statesmanly.")
If NK was serious about playing, they'd do everything to violate the spiritual definition of Donnie's impotent little temper tantrum "ultimatums" but stay within (an ever more maleable) legal bits of international law. Keep Donnie's support staff floundering, goad him into making more unforced errors.
Oops. Guess NK has been doing a decent rookie job. Jebus, Donnie is giving NK a free diplomacy lesson with not a lot of consequences for mistakes.
posted by porpoise at 10:03 PM on August 11, 2017
(I hope the mods will forgive me this off-topic comment, but I wanted to reply to soren_lorensen's story of witnessing handicapped parking abuse and not being able to get the authorities to do anything about it. If such a situation happens again, you can use the Parking Mobility app to report it without confronting the offender. Even if they don't get a ticket, you'll be collecting important data on just how bad the problem is for disabled people.)
posted by Soliloquy at 10:10 PM on August 11, 2017 [54 favorites]
posted by Soliloquy at 10:10 PM on August 11, 2017 [54 favorites]
Why are the Nazis having a luau
posted by miyabo at 10:16 PM on August 11, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by miyabo at 10:16 PM on August 11, 2017 [21 favorites]
imagine Un
(His family name is Kim and his given name is Jong Un. Calling him "Un" is like calling me "Seph").
posted by Joseph Gurl at 10:17 PM on August 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
(His family name is Kim and his given name is Jong Un. Calling him "Un" is like calling me "Seph").
posted by Joseph Gurl at 10:17 PM on August 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
Bill Maher's new rules tonight about the republican party turning into a party of troll was very powerful - Starts at 49:30 #leninparty
posted by growabrain at 10:17 PM on August 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by growabrain at 10:17 PM on August 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
The nazis like their marches to be mosquito-free, apparently.
posted by zachlipton at 10:18 PM on August 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 10:18 PM on August 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
The Prime Minister of Australia reaffirmed that we would honour the ANZUS treaty if the United States is attacked. Of course we will! His phrasing couldn't have been worse though. First he said we'd stand "shoulder to shoulder" with the Americans, which is fine. Then he said we are "joined at the hip".
Joined at the hip ... to Donald Trump. There's an image that will never leave you. I'm still shaking, I may never sleep again.
posted by adept256 at 10:19 PM on August 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Joined at the hip ... to Donald Trump. There's an image that will never leave you. I'm still shaking, I may never sleep again.
posted by adept256 at 10:19 PM on August 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Japanese tourism is big on Guam. Guam is sometimes referred to as Japan's Hawaii. In addition to big wedding parties there's golf and it's where Japanese can have their "American Experience". The indoor gun ranges offer the opportunity to fire handguns and even fully automatic rifles. They do a brisk business. Maybe the tRump could be convinced to visit the American military members stationed on Guam - a nice long stay to visit all of the golf courses. That would put him closer to North Korea, maybe to have him feel the potential reality of the harsh threats he's made.
The CNMI is nearby with even more fine golf courses. The island of Tinian is not far. tRump could see where the USS Indianapolis delivered it's secret cargo and where that cargo was loaded onto the B-29s that delivered it to Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
posted by X4ster at 10:24 PM on August 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
The CNMI is nearby with even more fine golf courses. The island of Tinian is not far. tRump could see where the USS Indianapolis delivered it's secret cargo and where that cargo was loaded onto the B-29s that delivered it to Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
posted by X4ster at 10:24 PM on August 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Bringer Tom: " if you manage to hit a city with one (a nontrivial task from half way around the world) then even a small nuke will kill more people than any US-landing hurricane ever has."
Hurricanes in the US average less than 50 deaths per year. If you can actually hit what you target, say over the pits at the Indianapolis 500 (300,000 attendees), you are going to exceed the total number of Americans ever killed by a hurricane by several orders of magnitude.
Room 641-A: "Trump praised the military, bashed an “obstructionist Congress” and told Calvo how tourism would be boosted for Guam without spending money.
“You’ve become extremely famous,” Trump said. “All over the world they’re talking about Guam.”"
Come to Guam; you probably won't be incinerated in a nuclear conflagration and if you are we might totally have your back.
posted by Mitheral at 10:37 PM on August 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Hurricanes in the US average less than 50 deaths per year. If you can actually hit what you target, say over the pits at the Indianapolis 500 (300,000 attendees), you are going to exceed the total number of Americans ever killed by a hurricane by several orders of magnitude.
Room 641-A: "Trump praised the military, bashed an “obstructionist Congress” and told Calvo how tourism would be boosted for Guam without spending money.
“You’ve become extremely famous,” Trump said. “All over the world they’re talking about Guam.”"
Come to Guam; you probably won't be incinerated in a nuclear conflagration and if you are we might totally have your back.
posted by Mitheral at 10:37 PM on August 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
where Japanese can have their "American Experience".
Holy hell those prices are ungodly high compared to shooting sports in the US. That's like going to a driving range and paying 3 bucks a swing or double digit dollars for gasoline to drive a Camry or something.
posted by RolandOfEld at 10:38 PM on August 11, 2017
Holy hell those prices are ungodly high compared to shooting sports in the US. That's like going to a driving range and paying 3 bucks a swing or double digit dollars for gasoline to drive a Camry or something.
posted by RolandOfEld at 10:38 PM on August 11, 2017
> Calling him "Un" is like calling me "Seph"
Yeah, seph, I'm also calling President of the United Stated Donald John Trump "Donnie."
posted by porpoise at 10:39 PM on August 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
Yeah, seph, I'm also calling President of the United Stated Donald John Trump "Donnie."
posted by porpoise at 10:39 PM on August 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
The Charlottesville Daily Progress going with the headline "FIRE AND FURY" for the white supremacists is a bold step.
posted by zachlipton at 10:44 PM on August 11, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 10:44 PM on August 11, 2017 [20 favorites]
Too fast! It's all going too fast! Oh god! I'm gonna barf! Someone stop this thing! Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease!
posted by From Bklyn at 10:58 PM on August 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by From Bklyn at 10:58 PM on August 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
#CheifStrategistNotWhen you misspell your sick burns.
posted by xyzzy at 11:04 PM on August 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Two impeach editorials.
Daily Beast: Joy-Ann Reid: Remove Trump From Office Before He Removes Us from Earth
Daily Beast: Joy-Ann Reid: Remove Trump From Office Before He Removes Us from Earth
At what point do the American people have a right to ask if this man, who a minority of our fellow citizens handed power, is emotionally fit to wield it? At what point is it fair to inquire as to the health of the president’s mind? At what point is it just to ask about his fundamental fitness to be president, and to demand that his fellow leaders, charged with the proper functioning of the federal government on behalf of all Americans, and not just their hardened, shrunken base, make an inquiry as well?New Republic: Brian Beutler: Republicans, Remove This Madman From Power
The right’s embrace of Flight 93 thinking has accelerated this generational logic, but only as it applies to the policy end of removing Trump from office. It was overwhelmingly old people who handed Trump the power to end all life on the planet, against the overwhelming wishes of people who will inherit it from them. Young people don’t simply regard Trump as a less-than-ideal steward of their futures, but as a poison forced upon them by elders who have disclaimed any responsibility for bequeathing their offspring a bright and kind and healthy civic life. In exchange for this darkened future, Trump’s enablers were promised everything from lower taxes (financed by cutting health care for younger people) to culture war to a nonspecific assault on the political establishment.posted by xyzzy at 11:20 PM on August 11, 2017 [47 favorites]
“General Kelly has done a fantastic job,” Trump said. “‘Chief,’ I call him, ‘Chief.’ He’s a respected man, he’s a four-star general from the Marines, and he carries himself like a four-star from the Marines.”
If my experience with Marine officers is any indication, you can probably hear Kelly grinding his teeth on the other side of the White House everytime Trump calls him "Chief."
Nevertheless: Wednesday I re-watched THREADS. Yesterday I listened to the 15-part radio adaptation of A Canticle for Liebowitz. And this morning I inexplicably found myself modeling surface and air bursts of various kilotonnage, plotting the maximum size weapon that could be dropped on Luke Air Force Base while not shattering the windows in my house, and cross-referencing that against the possible weapons in the Russian, Chinese and North Korean arsenals. Given favorable wind patterns, only one detonation, and a device less than 300kt, I might be able to survive the initial event, though about 120,000 Phoenicians would not be so lucky.
It has not been a cheery few days, is what I'm saying.
But then I went to my D&D game this evening, which just happened to be the final episode of The Curse of Strahd, in which a superb gaming experience over several months culminated tonight in the ancient vampire's unexpected redemption. And somehow, as we were laying the former villain to rest, and hallowing his crypt, things started looking up.
I may actually sleep well tonight.
posted by darkstar at 12:16 AM on August 12, 2017 [20 favorites]
If my experience with Marine officers is any indication, you can probably hear Kelly grinding his teeth on the other side of the White House everytime Trump calls him "Chief."
Nevertheless: Wednesday I re-watched THREADS. Yesterday I listened to the 15-part radio adaptation of A Canticle for Liebowitz. And this morning I inexplicably found myself modeling surface and air bursts of various kilotonnage, plotting the maximum size weapon that could be dropped on Luke Air Force Base while not shattering the windows in my house, and cross-referencing that against the possible weapons in the Russian, Chinese and North Korean arsenals. Given favorable wind patterns, only one detonation, and a device less than 300kt, I might be able to survive the initial event, though about 120,000 Phoenicians would not be so lucky.
It has not been a cheery few days, is what I'm saying.
But then I went to my D&D game this evening, which just happened to be the final episode of The Curse of Strahd, in which a superb gaming experience over several months culminated tonight in the ancient vampire's unexpected redemption. And somehow, as we were laying the former villain to rest, and hallowing his crypt, things started looking up.
I may actually sleep well tonight.
posted by darkstar at 12:16 AM on August 12, 2017 [20 favorites]
If Trump felt the need to respond he would write on the print out -- typically with a Sharpie pen -- and hand it back to Graff so should could scan the message and send it on electronically.
Nobody seems to have commented on this. This is one step above a fucking crayon.
posted by rifflesby at 1:08 AM on August 12, 2017 [21 favorites]
Nobody seems to have commented on this. This is one step above a fucking crayon.
posted by rifflesby at 1:08 AM on August 12, 2017 [21 favorites]
In that Nazi video, when the student recognizes Officer Krumpke or whoever he was, that moment where the student says something to the effect of 'you hit my ex's car' and says it in this sort of funny wow what a small world voice and then the student connects his past observations of the cop with the cops' current behavior and it's not funny or cute at all.
posted by angrycat at 1:16 AM on August 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 1:16 AM on August 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Re: Manaforte and Flynn's personal financial issues.
When you can't pay for your children's school and mortgage and legal representation is when you flip and become assets to the prosecutors.
posted by mikelieman at 1:42 AM on August 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
When you can't pay for your children's school and mortgage and legal representation is when you flip and become assets to the prosecutors.
posted by mikelieman at 1:42 AM on August 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
Maybe we can turn this around to something fun. In English, we can call Donald "Donnie". In some contexts, that would be a friendly nickname. In reference to the President, it's almost always meant in an insulting way.
I'm curious if Korean has similar rules for creating diminutive names: friendly when referring to a friend or a child, but disrespectful in most other contexts. If this is possible, what would Kim Jong Un's diminutive be?
posted by honestcoyote at 2:50 AM on August 12, 2017
I'm curious if Korean has similar rules for creating diminutive names: friendly when referring to a friend or a child, but disrespectful in most other contexts. If this is possible, what would Kim Jong Un's diminutive be?
posted by honestcoyote at 2:50 AM on August 12, 2017
Yeah, if Korean is anything like Japanese (and, to my understanding, the two are VERY similar grammatically) the only diminutives are friendly and endearing, and you demonstrate lack of respect for calling someone simply by their name, with no honorifics attached.
Also, it’s worth noting that as bad a look as sarcasm already is, English sarcasm translates especially poorly into other languages.
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:00 AM on August 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Also, it’s worth noting that as bad a look as sarcasm already is, English sarcasm translates especially poorly into other languages.
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:00 AM on August 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Sorry, I don't mean to derail, but does this mean it's ok to just keep referring to him as Kim Jong-Un? Is that essentially the same as always calling 45 "Donald Trump?"
posted by xyzzy at 3:25 AM on August 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by xyzzy at 3:25 AM on August 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Republicans won't impeach Trump.
Heframed me for armed robbery might end our civilization, but man, I'm aching for that upper class tax cut."
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:35 AM on August 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
He
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:35 AM on August 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
The Nazis are in the open and proud.
In case anyone hasn't watched this video of events in Charlottesville posted by Emily Gorcenski, it's important to see.
posted by XMLicious at 4:22 AM on August 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
so people are working on identifying all the nazi marchers and posting the information on a website with high PageRank for all eternity, right? RIGHT?
posted by entropicamericana at 4:38 AM on August 12, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 4:38 AM on August 12, 2017 [23 favorites]
For anyone else who stream captured Emily Gorcenski's video, I found that I needed to offset the audio by +2350ms to get it to line up.
posted by XMLicious at 4:47 AM on August 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by XMLicious at 4:47 AM on August 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
This Kim Jong-Un name thing is an irritating digression. But maybe I'm irritable because I just spent a whole conversation coaching my mother on American English pronunciation and was reminded of the lack of cultural reciprocity. She tries really hard to pronounce a vowel that doesn't exist in her native language, even when she can't use her name here because Americans can't be bothered to read or spell it.
So I'm with the other commenters who will see a deviation from the "official" reported name as an example of the following: typo/carelessness, ignorance, cultural insensitivity, or poor attempt to be clever that in fact exposes a lack of bona fide critique of the person or issues (e.g., how conspiracy theorists think they're being clever with puns by misspelling Hillary's name but they're just exposing their nuttiness).
We're better than that. What the heck is so hard about saying Kim Jong-Un? There's plenty to criticize about North Korea (or any other country, really) without getting caught up with its leader's name.
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 4:48 AM on August 12, 2017 [44 favorites]
So I'm with the other commenters who will see a deviation from the "official" reported name as an example of the following: typo/carelessness, ignorance, cultural insensitivity, or poor attempt to be clever that in fact exposes a lack of bona fide critique of the person or issues (e.g., how conspiracy theorists think they're being clever with puns by misspelling Hillary's name but they're just exposing their nuttiness).
We're better than that. What the heck is so hard about saying Kim Jong-Un? There's plenty to criticize about North Korea (or any other country, really) without getting caught up with its leader's name.
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 4:48 AM on August 12, 2017 [44 favorites]
I'm still confused as to how/when reliably racist americans became 'nazis', 'alt-right', 'nationalists', etc. The Southern Strategy has been a necessary and recognized GOP mechanism since 64, it's how they stay viable in any national election. By locking up around 100 dog-whistled electoral college votes out of the gate.
posted by rc3spencer at 4:51 AM on August 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by rc3spencer at 4:51 AM on August 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm still confused as to how/when reliably racist americans became 'nazis', 'alt-right', 'nationalists', etc.
When they stopped dogwhistling and started lighting torches.
Bug torches, but still.
posted by chris24 at 4:58 AM on August 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
When they stopped dogwhistling and started lighting torches.
Bug torches, but still.
posted by chris24 at 4:58 AM on August 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
When they stopped dogwhistling and started lighting torches.
Perlstein's histories of the modern conservative era are littered with HUNDREDS of events like these, torches included. And blood, and murder, and convention delegates. Really nothing new here except the new labels.
posted by rc3spencer at 5:02 AM on August 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Perlstein's histories of the modern conservative era are littered with HUNDREDS of events like these, torches included. And blood, and murder, and convention delegates. Really nothing new here except the new labels.
posted by rc3spencer at 5:02 AM on August 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Really nothing new here except the new labels.
(and a not-really-elected dictator who ran on banning muslims and calling mexicans rapists and whose government officially no longer investigates right-wing extremism)
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:08 AM on August 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
(and a not-really-elected dictator who ran on banning muslims and calling mexicans rapists and whose government officially no longer investigates right-wing extremism)
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:08 AM on August 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
-- typically with a Sharpie pen -- .
Nobody seems to have commented on this. This is one step above a fucking crayon.
ಠ_ಠ
ಠ_ಠ
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
sharpies4lyf
posted by Room 641-A at 5:10 AM on August 12, 2017 [21 favorites]
Nobody seems to have commented on this. This is one step above a fucking crayon.
ಠ_ಠ
ಠ_ಠ
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
sharpies4lyf
posted by Room 641-A at 5:10 AM on August 12, 2017 [21 favorites]
When they stopped dogwhistling and started lighting torches.
Perlstein's histories of the modern conservative era are littered with HUNDREDS of events like these, torches included. And blood, and murder, and convention delegates. Really nothing new here except the new labels.
My "they" wasn't referring to the racists marching, it was referring the Republican Party. Who have moved from Atwaterian code and plausible deniability to overt appeals to nationalism/racism and embracing/inclusion of neo-nazis and fascism. Subtext has been made text. The mask has come off.
White nationalism is nothing new, a major party being overtly so is.
posted by chris24 at 5:12 AM on August 12, 2017 [18 favorites]
Perlstein's histories of the modern conservative era are littered with HUNDREDS of events like these, torches included. And blood, and murder, and convention delegates. Really nothing new here except the new labels.
My "they" wasn't referring to the racists marching, it was referring the Republican Party. Who have moved from Atwaterian code and plausible deniability to overt appeals to nationalism/racism and embracing/inclusion of neo-nazis and fascism. Subtext has been made text. The mask has come off.
White nationalism is nothing new, a major party being overtly so is.
posted by chris24 at 5:12 AM on August 12, 2017 [18 favorites]
Obviously, this isn't something Trump has given any thought, but there is a huge difference between the US being attacked by NK and the US attacking NK in that the NATO article 5 doesn't apply when the US is the attacker. For the Iraq war, Bush managed to establish the so-called Coalition of the willing, through arm-twisting and bribery and because some leaders were idiots and sycophants. It didn't help much because there was no strategic sense in that coalition. I can't see any nation supporting any aggressive war Trump might suggest. A couple of Trump-years ago (weeks in standard time), I thought maybe some Gulf-states and Israel would support a war against Iran, but at this point I think even they have realized that teaming up with Trump would spell disaster.
And even the strongest military in the world cannot wage war without relevant allies. They need supplies and intelligence from allies and even the dumbest general has learnt this from early on — this is the real lesson from those failed attempts on Russia by Napoleon and Hitler, now supplemented with lessons from endless wars in Iraq and Afghanistan where the relevant allies are unreliable (How did anyone think they could trust Pakistan to be a US ally in Afghanistan, that is so crazy it would be a joke if it didn't get people killed). It doesn't really help if Poland is an ally in Iraq, since Poland knows absolutely nothing about Iraq and is not able to supply US forces with necessary resources, and the Saudis are another unreliable ally.
So, Trump tells "his generals" to bomb North Korea, Iran, Venezuela, whatever. Generals spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to not do it without engaging in an actual coup. This is why he tweets. In cabinet and NSC meetings, he is met by some level of reason.
posted by mumimor at 5:17 AM on August 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
And even the strongest military in the world cannot wage war without relevant allies. They need supplies and intelligence from allies and even the dumbest general has learnt this from early on — this is the real lesson from those failed attempts on Russia by Napoleon and Hitler, now supplemented with lessons from endless wars in Iraq and Afghanistan where the relevant allies are unreliable (How did anyone think they could trust Pakistan to be a US ally in Afghanistan, that is so crazy it would be a joke if it didn't get people killed). It doesn't really help if Poland is an ally in Iraq, since Poland knows absolutely nothing about Iraq and is not able to supply US forces with necessary resources, and the Saudis are another unreliable ally.
So, Trump tells "his generals" to bomb North Korea, Iran, Venezuela, whatever. Generals spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to not do it without engaging in an actual coup. This is why he tweets. In cabinet and NSC meetings, he is met by some level of reason.
posted by mumimor at 5:17 AM on August 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
In case anyone hasn't watched this video of events in Charlottesville posted by Emily Gorcenski, it's important to see.
You just know one of them works at Cost Plus World Market for a staff discount on those Tiki torches.
Also, I know it's an old joke, but why are the people who call for maintaining "genetic purity" always look like the people who have had bleach poured into their own gene pool.
posted by Talez at 5:19 AM on August 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
You just know one of them works at Cost Plus World Market for a staff discount on those Tiki torches.
Also, I know it's an old joke, but why are the people who call for maintaining "genetic purity" always look like the people who have had bleach poured into their own gene pool.
posted by Talez at 5:19 AM on August 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
@HeerJeet
If these guys are worried that they'll be replaced by another race, they shouldn't have a movement that is 99% male.
posted by chris24 at 5:22 AM on August 12, 2017 [95 favorites]
If these guys are worried that they'll be replaced by another race, they shouldn't have a movement that is 99% male.
posted by chris24 at 5:22 AM on August 12, 2017 [95 favorites]
In case anyone is wondering, various twitter types have been screenshotting people's faces from the video to preserve their images for posterity. The video is dark and disturbing, but Emily did provide a few moments of levity when she specifically tried to capture video of Nazis failing to navigate what appears to be a moderate hill. I've gone up those stairs and it's a lot steeper than it looks.
posted by xyzzy at 5:25 AM on August 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 5:25 AM on August 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
The ADL's Hate Symbols Database may be a useful reference for the images and video of Charlottesville.
posted by XMLicious at 5:25 AM on August 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by XMLicious at 5:25 AM on August 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Sorry, I don't mean to derail, but does this mean it's ok to just keep referring to him as Kim Jong-Un? Is that essentially the same as always calling 45 "Donald Trump?"
I'm not sure I understand the exact question but here's my general approach: think of convention/protocol, accuracy, and clarity. Basically, what would reporters do?
We usually refer to world leaders by surname (and maybe title). For Kim Jong-un, using the full name avoids confusion about which Kim we're discussing; it's not just Jong-un because of convention. It's not entirely equivalent to always using full-name "Donald Trump" because we don't need his full name to understand whom exactly we're discussing, the linguistic/cultural context or satirical intent, etc.
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 5:28 AM on August 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm not sure I understand the exact question but here's my general approach: think of convention/protocol, accuracy, and clarity. Basically, what would reporters do?
We usually refer to world leaders by surname (and maybe title). For Kim Jong-un, using the full name avoids confusion about which Kim we're discussing; it's not just Jong-un because of convention. It's not entirely equivalent to always using full-name "Donald Trump" because we don't need his full name to understand whom exactly we're discussing, the linguistic/cultural context or satirical intent, etc.
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 5:28 AM on August 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Mod note: I think we have addressed the Kim Jong-un name situation pretty fully at this point, and while not every single member who isn't aware will have read every single comment, and we can't expect that no one will ever make these mistakes again going forward, we can probably let it rest for the moment.
posted by taz (staff) at 5:32 AM on August 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 5:32 AM on August 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
@HeerJeet
If these guys are worried that they'll be replaced by another race, they shouldn't have a movement that is 99% male.
I mean, yeah, but coming from Jeet "the Google manifesto is respectable free speech" Heer, this somehow rankles.
posted by schadenfrau at 5:43 AM on August 12, 2017 [16 favorites]
If these guys are worried that they'll be replaced by another race, they shouldn't have a movement that is 99% male.
I mean, yeah, but coming from Jeet "the Google manifesto is respectable free speech" Heer, this somehow rankles.
posted by schadenfrau at 5:43 AM on August 12, 2017 [16 favorites]
As it happens, Sharpie makes a pretty great ultra-fine-tip pen and it's one of my faves for writing in my planner. As with well-done steak, we don't need to insult all the people who have tiny everyday preferences in common with that man.
posted by Andrhia at 5:43 AM on August 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Andrhia at 5:43 AM on August 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
I mean, yeah, but coming from Jeet "the Google manifesto is respectable free speech" Heer, this somehow rankles.
The I wouldn't read this article where the ACLU is urging Cville to allow nazis to use Emancipation Park for a white pride rally.
posted by Talez at 5:52 AM on August 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
The I wouldn't read this article where the ACLU is urging Cville to allow nazis to use Emancipation Park for a white pride rally.
posted by Talez at 5:52 AM on August 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
I mean, yeah, but coming from Jeet "the Google manifesto is respectable free speech" Heer, this somehow rankles.I was inexplicably annoyed, too, and then I realized that it's because he should have understood that the KKK goes out to rally with mosquito torches while "their" women are expected to stay home and read aloud.
posted by xyzzy at 5:55 AM on August 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
If Trump decided to preemptively strike ... It's just an incredibly stupid strategy
USS Liberty, Bologina Train Bombing, Sinking of the Lusitania, Remember the Maine, Saddam and Yellowcake*, even the start of WWII for America all have things stated at the start and packaged by the leaders and the media that reported them that, upon the ability to know more challenge the narrative given at the start of the event. Heck, it might be possible if the American public had been able to have been offered the things known now back then with the same passion and repetition as the original narrative perhaps history would have had a different outcome.
In the world of today - look at CNN narrative of Sherelle Smith as an example of what happened VS what was reported.
Decided on narratives, packaging them up, repetition of the narrative, and presenting them to the public is how advertising works. I would not put much faith in the ability of my fellow man to somehow sort out what is incredibly stupid.
(*Think about it - in the media environment of today the Metafilter discussion on yellowcake back in the day, would it not have been called "fake news" by the people who claimed it was totes real?)
posted by rough ashlar at 6:00 AM on August 12, 2017
USS Liberty, Bologina Train Bombing, Sinking of the Lusitania, Remember the Maine, Saddam and Yellowcake*, even the start of WWII for America all have things stated at the start and packaged by the leaders and the media that reported them that, upon the ability to know more challenge the narrative given at the start of the event. Heck, it might be possible if the American public had been able to have been offered the things known now back then with the same passion and repetition as the original narrative perhaps history would have had a different outcome.
In the world of today - look at CNN narrative of Sherelle Smith as an example of what happened VS what was reported.
Decided on narratives, packaging them up, repetition of the narrative, and presenting them to the public is how advertising works. I would not put much faith in the ability of my fellow man to somehow sort out what is incredibly stupid.
(*Think about it - in the media environment of today the Metafilter discussion on yellowcake back in the day, would it not have been called "fake news" by the people who claimed it was totes real?)
posted by rough ashlar at 6:00 AM on August 12, 2017
(*Think about it - in the media environment of today the Metafilter discussion on yellowcake back in the day, would it not have been called "fake news" by the people who claimed it was totes real?)
Well I don't know about "back in the day" because we never had a big yellowcake thread. But we didn't call the media's toeing of the administration line "fake news", we just called it "bullshit". Because that's what it was, bullshit.
posted by Talez at 6:11 AM on August 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Well I don't know about "back in the day" because we never had a big yellowcake thread. But we didn't call the media's toeing of the administration line "fake news", we just called it "bullshit". Because that's what it was, bullshit.
posted by Talez at 6:11 AM on August 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
An interesting twist to that nut-job NSC memo, which has been mostly overlooked:
NSC memo exposes ties between Trump Jr. and the White House
Despite having no security clearance, the president's son reportedly ended up receiving a National Security memo. (Melanie Schmitz, Think Progress)
NSC memo exposes ties between Trump Jr. and the White House
Despite having no security clearance, the president's son reportedly ended up receiving a National Security memo. (Melanie Schmitz, Think Progress)
According to two sources who spoke with the outlet, Trump Jr. was one of the people who received the emailed memo, despite not having the proper security clearance or any official position in the Trump administration that would warrant such a transmission. (It wasn’t exactly clear whether Higgins had intended to include him on the list of recipients.) Trump Jr. later passed the message to his father, who reportedly “gushed over it.”posted by Room 641-A at 6:11 AM on August 12, 2017 [26 favorites]
Aside from the obvious security issues surrounding a non-NSC staffer being privy to internal communications, the fact that Trump Jr. then relayed the message to his father flies in the face of the president’s earlier promises to keep his business ties and White House duties separate.
Re: Charlottesville counterprotest
Charlottesville Grants 2 Permits for Counterprotests of Unite the Right Rally, NBC29, 8/9/17 (article contains link to organizers' Facebook page)
e.g. @letsgomathias
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 6:18 AM on August 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
Charlottesville Grants 2 Permits for Counterprotests of Unite the Right Rally, NBC29, 8/9/17 (article contains link to organizers' Facebook page)
The Peoples Action for Racial Justice (PURJ) will now hold demonstrations in both McGuffey and Justice Parks from 9 a.m. to 7 p.m. this Saturday.The counterprotests have started. People are tweeting videos this morning. #Charlottesville #counterprotest
e.g. @letsgomathias
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 6:18 AM on August 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO END THIS SHITSTORM?? I just...I mean...I can't...WTF is going to happen to everyone?? This is not sustainable.
Last week I noted that 45's behavior is scarily reminiscent of my Grandma's when she was sundowning with Alzheimer's; but this shit is getting worse and worse and worse.
I envision that assclown POTUS and he has a band of idiots surrounding him and they all take turns trying to distract him by waving shiny things in his face. So he's sitting there is a big ole chair staring at Fox News and has his phone clamped between his tiny little hands and he's got some "rational" adults thinking, "Stop talking about Hilary and about leaks," and so they say:
The Boy Scouts loved you!
Russia did us a favor by expelling diplomats!
Hey, look here, North Korea!
Stop looking at North Korea!!
Pretty Ivanka is going to open a store in your NYC tower!
No, no, NOT North Korea! Look at the pretty girl again!!
Look, look, look! Ivanka is going on a trade tour!!
Stop looking at North Korea!! Fire and fury is BAD!
Look what you did good!! Guam is famous and didn't spend an advertising penny!
No, no, no, wait; Venezuela! They're our neighbor!!
I literally cannot imagine the absolute clusterfuck that is the White House advisory staff. Sanders saying with a completely straight face that he was being sarcastic when discussing diplomatic expulsion. Tillerson having to rationally discuss a NUCLEAR FUCKING WAR scenario.
What is it going to take to get rid of him??
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 6:18 AM on August 12, 2017 [28 favorites]
Last week I noted that 45's behavior is scarily reminiscent of my Grandma's when she was sundowning with Alzheimer's; but this shit is getting worse and worse and worse.
I envision that assclown POTUS and he has a band of idiots surrounding him and they all take turns trying to distract him by waving shiny things in his face. So he's sitting there is a big ole chair staring at Fox News and has his phone clamped between his tiny little hands and he's got some "rational" adults thinking, "Stop talking about Hilary and about leaks," and so they say:
The Boy Scouts loved you!
Russia did us a favor by expelling diplomats!
Hey, look here, North Korea!
Stop looking at North Korea!!
Pretty Ivanka is going to open a store in your NYC tower!
No, no, NOT North Korea! Look at the pretty girl again!!
Look, look, look! Ivanka is going on a trade tour!!
Stop looking at North Korea!! Fire and fury is BAD!
Look what you did good!! Guam is famous and didn't spend an advertising penny!
No, no, no, wait; Venezuela! They're our neighbor!!
I literally cannot imagine the absolute clusterfuck that is the White House advisory staff. Sanders saying with a completely straight face that he was being sarcastic when discussing diplomatic expulsion. Tillerson having to rationally discuss a NUCLEAR FUCKING WAR scenario.
What is it going to take to get rid of him??
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 6:18 AM on August 12, 2017 [28 favorites]
In addition to the general Anti-Racism fund
This popular thread lists charities and organizations in Charlottesville that could use some funding against Nazis
And the Charlottesville DSA (@CVilleDSA) has on the street coverage of the counter marches and religious services as well as many good links livestream here
posted by The Whelk at 6:19 AM on August 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
This popular thread lists charities and organizations in Charlottesville that could use some funding against Nazis
And the Charlottesville DSA (@CVilleDSA) has on the street coverage of the counter marches and religious services as well as many good links livestream here
posted by The Whelk at 6:19 AM on August 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
I mean, yeah, but coming from Jeet "the Google manifesto is respectable free speech" Heer, this somehow rankles.
I agree and was the person who posted that he had done so, but he has tweeted and recommended a couple rebuttals/takedowns of the article. So not sure if he's just showing alternative views or had a change of heart. He hasn't explicitly commented on or retracted his tweetstorm.
posted by chris24 at 6:23 AM on August 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
I agree and was the person who posted that he had done so, but he has tweeted and recommended a couple rebuttals/takedowns of the article. So not sure if he's just showing alternative views or had a change of heart. He hasn't explicitly commented on or retracted his tweetstorm.
posted by chris24 at 6:23 AM on August 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
“You’ve become extremely famous,” Trump said. “All over the world they’re talking about Guam.”
oh my fucking god that's all that matters to him.
I curate an almost daily news stream for developing economies and suddenly, a few days ago, Guam started showing up in the news searches BEFORE this thing of north korea showed up in MSM.
Just an observation.
posted by infini at 6:25 AM on August 12, 2017 [16 favorites]
oh my fucking god that's all that matters to him.
I curate an almost daily news stream for developing economies and suddenly, a few days ago, Guam started showing up in the news searches BEFORE this thing of north korea showed up in MSM.
Just an observation.
posted by infini at 6:25 AM on August 12, 2017 [16 favorites]
Poll: Most Canadians love single-payer healthcare except Alan, the single payer
posted by Meatbomb at 6:28 AM on August 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Meatbomb at 6:28 AM on August 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
Mitheral: Hurricanes in the US average less than 50 deaths per year. If you can actually hit what you target, say over the pits at the Indianapolis 500 (300,000 attendees), you are going to exceed the total number of Americans ever killed by a hurricane by several orders of magnitude.
This is definitely true, but it just casually tosses that "if you can hit what you target" thing in as if it's a coda. It's actually a very hard problem. Hitting a target the size of a stadium from 6,000 miles away is something the US can only barely do, and we've been using Tinian as a test target from Vandenburg since the 1950's. There is some debate as to whether even we could hit targets in the USSR where the trajectory is polar rather than east-west, since we've never tested one in that direction and the physics are a bit different. NK's one test of a missile powerful enough to theoretically reach the US showed no evidence of being aimed very much at all, and broke up on re-entry. I would be surprised if they could hit Los Angeles, much less a sporting event venue.
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:29 AM on August 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
This is definitely true, but it just casually tosses that "if you can hit what you target" thing in as if it's a coda. It's actually a very hard problem. Hitting a target the size of a stadium from 6,000 miles away is something the US can only barely do, and we've been using Tinian as a test target from Vandenburg since the 1950's. There is some debate as to whether even we could hit targets in the USSR where the trajectory is polar rather than east-west, since we've never tested one in that direction and the physics are a bit different. NK's one test of a missile powerful enough to theoretically reach the US showed no evidence of being aimed very much at all, and broke up on re-entry. I would be surprised if they could hit Los Angeles, much less a sporting event venue.
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:29 AM on August 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
The counterprotests have started. People are tweeting videos this morning. #Charlottesville #counterprotest
e.g. @letsgomathias
My favorite part of clicking that link is the video thumbnail looks like only a handful of people. Then the video starts, and pans left to show people as far as you can see. Then pans right, and ditto. I have no doubt the counter protests will faaar outnumber the tiki torch nazis this morning. With almost zero notice.
posted by Roommate at 6:32 AM on August 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
e.g. @letsgomathias
My favorite part of clicking that link is the video thumbnail looks like only a handful of people. Then the video starts, and pans left to show people as far as you can see. Then pans right, and ditto. I have no doubt the counter protests will faaar outnumber the tiki torch nazis this morning. With almost zero notice.
posted by Roommate at 6:32 AM on August 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
I hope so, but from my 15,000km perspective the Nazi marches seem to be getting bigger and more organised.
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:35 AM on August 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:35 AM on August 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
At least some Christians are still... Christians.
Christianity Today: The Use of Nuclear Weapons Is Inherently Evil
And in that vein...
@johnpavlovitz
If your God is cool with nuking an entire country but not with two guys marrying—you might consider exchanging that God.
posted by chris24 at 6:37 AM on August 12, 2017 [78 favorites]
Christianity Today: The Use of Nuclear Weapons Is Inherently Evil
And in that vein...
@johnpavlovitz
If your God is cool with nuking an entire country but not with two guys marrying—you might consider exchanging that God.
posted by chris24 at 6:37 AM on August 12, 2017 [78 favorites]
How long does it take to modify a miniaturized nuke into a salted/maximum-fallout weapon? In that case, accuracy seems like less of an issue; "in the general vicinity of the jet stream" may be good enough.
posted by XMLicious at 6:40 AM on August 12, 2017
posted by XMLicious at 6:40 AM on August 12, 2017
Ask MeFi: How do I rewind & start my Saturday with some cartoons instead of tiki nazis and a crushing sense of dread
posted by salix at 6:49 AM on August 12, 2017 [31 favorites]
posted by salix at 6:49 AM on August 12, 2017 [31 favorites]
I have no doubt the counter protests will faaar outnumber the tiki torch nazis this morning. With almost zero notice.
I am trying to charge up my hope-meter by watching clips of the Vice Mayor's speech, that wall of interfaith counterprotesters facing a smattering of pathetic dudes in camo with semi-automatic rifles*, the veritable rainbow of ethnicities/genders/ages/backgrounds/etc vs the creepy drab monochrome of the white supremacists...
*Are those things loaded?! No, right? But 2017...
I really really hope for minimum violence today.
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 6:50 AM on August 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
I am trying to charge up my hope-meter by watching clips of the Vice Mayor's speech, that wall of interfaith counterprotesters facing a smattering of pathetic dudes in camo with semi-automatic rifles*, the veritable rainbow of ethnicities/genders/ages/backgrounds/etc vs the creepy drab monochrome of the white supremacists...
*Are those things loaded?! No, right? But 2017...
I really really hope for minimum violence today.
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 6:50 AM on August 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Errhh. Latest 3 tweets from Christopher Mathias (HuffPo):
Not even 10am and the first physical fight has broken out.
Chants of "From the Midwest to the south, punch a Nazi in the mouth." Safe to say antifa is here
Now antifa and militia groups trading barbs
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 6:54 AM on August 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
Not even 10am and the first physical fight has broken out.
Chants of "From the Midwest to the south, punch a Nazi in the mouth." Safe to say antifa is here
Now antifa and militia groups trading barbs
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 6:54 AM on August 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
@johnpavlovitz
If your God is cool with nuking an entire country but not with two guys marrying—you might consider exchanging that God.
Uh, the problem has never been with God.
A friend of mine went to a "Christian" high school. A friend of his had premarital sex and got pregnant. Because she didn't believe in abortion, she decided to keep it. The school expelled her for "setting a bad example."
Here's a girl who decided to actually walk the walk regarding her beliefs, and they decided to punish her for it. I guaran-fucking-tee you that there were other girls at that school who made discreet appointments at the doctor under similar circumstances.
It is so contrary to the teachings of Christ that I almost cannot fathom the cognitive dissonance necessary to reach that decision. Have they ever actually read the New Testament? Or the concept of forgiveness? I wonder if they're even aware that one of Christ's most beloved of followers was a prostitute?
How is it that the least Christ-like among us most visibly carry the public banner of Christianity?
posted by leotrotsky at 6:58 AM on August 12, 2017 [40 favorites]
If your God is cool with nuking an entire country but not with two guys marrying—you might consider exchanging that God.
Uh, the problem has never been with God.
A friend of mine went to a "Christian" high school. A friend of his had premarital sex and got pregnant. Because she didn't believe in abortion, she decided to keep it. The school expelled her for "setting a bad example."
Here's a girl who decided to actually walk the walk regarding her beliefs, and they decided to punish her for it. I guaran-fucking-tee you that there were other girls at that school who made discreet appointments at the doctor under similar circumstances.
It is so contrary to the teachings of Christ that I almost cannot fathom the cognitive dissonance necessary to reach that decision. Have they ever actually read the New Testament? Or the concept of forgiveness? I wonder if they're even aware that one of Christ's most beloved of followers was a prostitute?
How is it that the least Christ-like among us most visibly carry the public banner of Christianity?
posted by leotrotsky at 6:58 AM on August 12, 2017 [40 favorites]
So is this nuclear dick waiving all just a sham to play to the base?
posted by adamvasco at 7:04 AM on August 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by adamvasco at 7:04 AM on August 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
"Mr President, how will the administration respond to the situation in San Marino?"
"Obviously there's a lot going on in San Marino, I'm very familiar with the problems. if San Marino thinks it can make threats to the United States they are going to face Real Ultimate Power, and I do mean Real Ultimate Power, and I would even say punishment. It's not punishment; it's gunishment. The world will look at San Marino and puke its guts out and then slurp up the vomit and puke it out a second time, because that's what America is all about. Next question." [FAKE]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:05 AM on August 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
"Obviously there's a lot going on in San Marino, I'm very familiar with the problems. if San Marino thinks it can make threats to the United States they are going to face Real Ultimate Power, and I do mean Real Ultimate Power, and I would even say punishment. It's not punishment; it's gunishment. The world will look at San Marino and puke its guts out and then slurp up the vomit and puke it out a second time, because that's what America is all about. Next question." [FAKE]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:05 AM on August 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
*Are those things loaded?! No, right? But 2017...
They probably have a full magazine but no round in the chamber. Police should be checking every one of their weapons to make sure they're legal under VA law (no more than 20 round magazines) but they probably won't.
posted by Talez at 7:05 AM on August 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
They probably have a full magazine but no round in the chamber. Police should be checking every one of their weapons to make sure they're legal under VA law (no more than 20 round magazines) but they probably won't.
posted by Talez at 7:05 AM on August 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Ask MeFi: How do I rewind & start my Saturday with some cartoons instead of tiki nazis and a crushing sense of dread
If you get Disney XD, they appear to be showing Ducktales all day.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:06 AM on August 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
If you get Disney XD, they appear to be showing Ducktales all day.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:06 AM on August 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Mathias has also been tweeting in every possible thread he can find that antifa counter-protesters threatened to beat him up while he asked for photographs as they recovered from pepper spray/physical assault.
Joe in Australia: You (and others, I dunno) may be interested in this Medium article I am reading about the rise of extremism in the US.
Joe in Australia: You (and others, I dunno) may be interested in this Medium article I am reading about the rise of extremism in the US.
Perhaps most troubling are the group dynamics at work here, which are indicative of an identity movement’s spiral towards violent extremism. Though the groups that will coalesce in Charlottesville represent a spectrum of far-right viewpoints, they all share a common goal: Redefining the boundaries of the American identity — i.e., what it means to be a “real” American, and who gets to be included in that group.posted by xyzzy at 7:07 AM on August 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
This process involves several steps, the first of which is framing the identity of the “in-group” (those deemed to be “real” Americans) as inseparable from the derogation of an “out-group” (those who aren’t included in an increasingly narrow construction of American identity). The groups that make up the Unite the Right rally have differing perspectives on exactly where to draw the line separating the in-group from the out-group. The definition of the out-group is flexible and may include Muslims, immigrants, Jews, African Americans, liberals, feminists, and more. This so-called “fluidity of groups” often accompanies the transition to extremism.
How long does it take to modify a miniaturized nuke into a salted/maximum-fallout weapon?
It's not as simple as it sounds. Ground bursting any ordinary nuke will toss up a lot of radioactive crap, as the US learned in some of the postwar tests. For fallout without using the environment to provide material, the smaller and more miniaturized the bomb the less matter it has to contribute to the fallout cloud, so simply hitting the jet stream doesn't do much.
The best radiological weapon for killing a lot of people in a short period of time is your ordinary Teller-Ulam H-bomb. The fallout from the second stage uranium tamper, most of the mass of the bomb, is very intensely radioactive, but has a relatively short half-life so you can wait it out in a shelter. The theory behind cobalt bombs is that instead of using the neutron flux to fission U238 you use it to turn natural Co59 to intensely radioactive Co60. This pretty much requires redesigning the second stage, since cobalt is a much lighter tamper material than uranium. Since Co60 has a half-life of 5 years or so, waiting it out in a shelter is impractical, and while it's not quite as radioactive as fission products it's quite radioactive enough to kill you in a short time. But if there is only one bomb, it's practical to just run from the hot zone and come back in fifteen or twenty years.
Anyway, while I am worrying about whether NK has weapons like this, I will finish converting my Ford Focus into a space shuttle. Even money says I succeed first.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:11 AM on August 12, 2017 [20 favorites]
It's not as simple as it sounds. Ground bursting any ordinary nuke will toss up a lot of radioactive crap, as the US learned in some of the postwar tests. For fallout without using the environment to provide material, the smaller and more miniaturized the bomb the less matter it has to contribute to the fallout cloud, so simply hitting the jet stream doesn't do much.
The best radiological weapon for killing a lot of people in a short period of time is your ordinary Teller-Ulam H-bomb. The fallout from the second stage uranium tamper, most of the mass of the bomb, is very intensely radioactive, but has a relatively short half-life so you can wait it out in a shelter. The theory behind cobalt bombs is that instead of using the neutron flux to fission U238 you use it to turn natural Co59 to intensely radioactive Co60. This pretty much requires redesigning the second stage, since cobalt is a much lighter tamper material than uranium. Since Co60 has a half-life of 5 years or so, waiting it out in a shelter is impractical, and while it's not quite as radioactive as fission products it's quite radioactive enough to kill you in a short time. But if there is only one bomb, it's practical to just run from the hot zone and come back in fifteen or twenty years.
Anyway, while I am worrying about whether NK has weapons like this, I will finish converting my Ford Focus into a space shuttle. Even money says I succeed first.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:11 AM on August 12, 2017 [20 favorites]
Thing is, Trump has always relished the idea of having nuclear weapons at his disposal, and now he's got them.
Wait a second. Or perhaps longer than a flash of light. Is there some actual proof of this claim that can be shown before the wave of heat arrives?
My memory is he called 'em terrible at points in the past. At one point he agreed with Hillary that they are a problem. In fact , worse than global warming.
The problem is Trump is all over the map and from a 'what is truth' with him is like nailing down jello.
But what CAN be pointed at is:
"The biggest problem this world has today is not President [Barack] Obama with global warming, which is inconceivable, this is what he's saying. The biggest problem we have is nuclear - nuclear proliferation and having some maniac, having some madman go out and get a nuclear weapon. That's in my opinion, that is the single biggest problem that our country faces."
And the follow up to that, as it exists is:
Hey, is Donald a madman who has gone out and gotten a nuke or 2 by getting a public office that has 'em?
posted by rough ashlar at 7:14 AM on August 12, 2017
Wait a second. Or perhaps longer than a flash of light. Is there some actual proof of this claim that can be shown before the wave of heat arrives?
My memory is he called 'em terrible at points in the past. At one point he agreed with Hillary that they are a problem. In fact , worse than global warming.
The problem is Trump is all over the map and from a 'what is truth' with him is like nailing down jello.
But what CAN be pointed at is:
"The biggest problem this world has today is not President [Barack] Obama with global warming, which is inconceivable, this is what he's saying. The biggest problem we have is nuclear - nuclear proliferation and having some maniac, having some madman go out and get a nuclear weapon. That's in my opinion, that is the single biggest problem that our country faces."
And the follow up to that, as it exists is:
Hey, is Donald a madman who has gone out and gotten a nuke or 2 by getting a public office that has 'em?
posted by rough ashlar at 7:14 AM on August 12, 2017
So is this nuclear dick waiving all just a sham to play to the base?
...Phrasing?
Also: dick waiving? like you forego or relinquish it somehow? (I'm finding this more amusing than it should be.)
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 7:15 AM on August 12, 2017 [23 favorites]
...Phrasing?
Also: dick waiving? like you forego or relinquish it somehow? (I'm finding this more amusing than it should be.)
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 7:15 AM on August 12, 2017 [23 favorites]
I hope so, but from my 15,000km perspective the Nazi marches seem to be getting bigger and more organised.
One overhead view from last night of the Tiki Dancers was a little encouraging. They managed to make a complete round of the statue but the torches didn't overflow the square around it. And this is with a lot of publicity and people bussed in from all over. This movement is loud, obnoxious, and evil, but it's not bringing in the masses. And as others have said, the counter-protesters will outnumber them.
From the Midwest to the south, punch a Nazi in the mouth.
Thank you for that. Completely brightened my morning.
posted by honestcoyote at 7:18 AM on August 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
One overhead view from last night of the Tiki Dancers was a little encouraging. They managed to make a complete round of the statue but the torches didn't overflow the square around it. And this is with a lot of publicity and people bussed in from all over. This movement is loud, obnoxious, and evil, but it's not bringing in the masses. And as others have said, the counter-protesters will outnumber them.
From the Midwest to the south, punch a Nazi in the mouth.
Thank you for that. Completely brightened my morning.
posted by honestcoyote at 7:18 AM on August 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
I understand you can also use gold/198Au instead of cobalt. Trump would love that, gold bombs.
posted by XMLicious at 7:19 AM on August 12, 2017
posted by XMLicious at 7:19 AM on August 12, 2017
Hey, is Donald a madman who has gone out and gotten a nuke or 2 by getting a public office that has 'em?
I've been avoiding analyzing the NK Nukes because why use an ICBM when you can smuggle them in using a cargo container, but this thing where DJT is either a Russian Asset with nukes, or insane person with nukes (Why not both?).
It's too early to be drinking, but hey, it's 2017, and here we are.
posted by mikelieman at 7:20 AM on August 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
I've been avoiding analyzing the NK Nukes because why use an ICBM when you can smuggle them in using a cargo container, but this thing where DJT is either a Russian Asset with nukes, or insane person with nukes (Why not both?).
It's too early to be drinking, but hey, it's 2017, and here we are.
posted by mikelieman at 7:20 AM on August 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Thing is, Trump has always relished the idea of having nuclear weapons at his disposal, and now he's got them.
Wait a second. Or perhaps longer than a flash of light. Is there some actual proof of this claim that can be shown before the wave of heat arrives?
While relished is maybe not the best word, he has been fixated on them for decades and recently talked about why can't we just use them. In addition to the recent threats of using them.
MoJo: Trump Has Been Thinking About Nuclear War for Decades. Here’s Why That’s Scary.
MoJo: Does Donald Trump Believe Nuclear War Is Inevitable?
the Hill: Scarborough: Trump asked adviser why US can't use nuclear weapons
posted by chris24 at 7:21 AM on August 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
Wait a second. Or perhaps longer than a flash of light. Is there some actual proof of this claim that can be shown before the wave of heat arrives?
While relished is maybe not the best word, he has been fixated on them for decades and recently talked about why can't we just use them. In addition to the recent threats of using them.
MoJo: Trump Has Been Thinking About Nuclear War for Decades. Here’s Why That’s Scary.
MoJo: Does Donald Trump Believe Nuclear War Is Inevitable?
the Hill: Scarborough: Trump asked adviser why US can't use nuclear weapons
posted by chris24 at 7:21 AM on August 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
As near as I can make out, Trump's personal goals have consistently been -- and I think I have the order right --
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:21 AM on August 12, 2017 [29 favorites]
- Bask in the adoration of admirers
- Make money
- Terrify and punish his enemies
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:21 AM on August 12, 2017 [29 favorites]
Here's the meaty bit from the article linked by adamvasco above:
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 7:23 AM on August 12, 2017 [18 favorites]
So now we have confirmation that Trump and Kim aren’t merely hurling threats at each other out of context; they’ve been communicating the entire time.Based on this tweet from the AP: BREAKING: APNewsBreak: Senior US diplomat has engaged in back-channel diplomacy with NKorea for several months; contacts ongoing.
This means, in effect, that Trump and Kim both know to ignore each other’s public posturing. They’re relying instead on that backchannel for whatever they’re actually saying to each other.
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 7:23 AM on August 12, 2017 [18 favorites]
Trump would love that, gold bombs.
It would be right in character, for sure. Use something expensive when something cheap will be just as effective and then declare bankruptcy. I'd say he would then only need a white cat to complete his transformation into a Bond villain, but there is that thing on top of his head...
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:25 AM on August 12, 2017
It would be right in character, for sure. Use something expensive when something cheap will be just as effective and then declare bankruptcy. I'd say he would then only need a white cat to complete his transformation into a Bond villain, but there is that thing on top of his head...
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:25 AM on August 12, 2017
Trump Has Been Thinking About Nuclear War for Decades. Here’s Why That’s Scary.
I'm not sure why that required anyone spelling out why that's scary. 'I don't know what's wrong with a US president masturbating to Armageddon. We all have our vices. I mean, I really like Snickers bars.'
posted by A Terrible Llama at 7:25 AM on August 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
I'm not sure why that required anyone spelling out why that's scary. 'I don't know what's wrong with a US president masturbating to Armageddon. We all have our vices. I mean, I really like Snickers bars.'
posted by A Terrible Llama at 7:25 AM on August 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
This means, in effect, that Trump and Kim both know to ignore each other’s public posturing. They’re relying instead on that backchannel for whatever they’re actually saying to each other.
Remember how Obama using a backchannel to negotiate the Iran deal was the worst thing ever?
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:44 AM on August 12, 2017 [22 favorites]
Remember how Obama using a backchannel to negotiate the Iran deal was the worst thing ever?
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:44 AM on August 12, 2017 [22 favorites]
In re the nazis: anti-nazi protesters need a diversity of tactics, because we won't be able to win by punching every time.
My thought is that marching a few hundred tiki torch nazis around an empty campus is pretty stupid except for the images it generates - it's mainly about images that can be shared on the internet.
And also, if we can punch to win decisively, it's good to have images of our side punching - but images of our side getting beat down are bad, and images of exciting fights are also bad, because it attracts the "fighting is fun" demographic among young white men.
So I feel like alternate tactics need to be developed that will destroy the image-making power of the nazis.
My immediate thought is that you can fuck up a protest with a small number of people if you have a brass band and enough people to defend it if they link arms and stay tight (we have left wing brass here, which brought it to mind). So, for instance, you mess up image-making if people are marching around....followed by tuba. Or followed by "The Worms Crawl In". There's risk to that, because a violent surge would overwhelm smaller numbers, but even there "nazis beat up bassoonist" is not as photogenic as "nazis slug it out with antifa".
I really think that noise and music are possible weapons when we don't have numbers, and I think it's important to remember that an otherwise low-purpose event like the march round an empty campus exists to create images.
posted by Frowner at 8:04 AM on August 12, 2017 [71 favorites]
My thought is that marching a few hundred tiki torch nazis around an empty campus is pretty stupid except for the images it generates - it's mainly about images that can be shared on the internet.
And also, if we can punch to win decisively, it's good to have images of our side punching - but images of our side getting beat down are bad, and images of exciting fights are also bad, because it attracts the "fighting is fun" demographic among young white men.
So I feel like alternate tactics need to be developed that will destroy the image-making power of the nazis.
My immediate thought is that you can fuck up a protest with a small number of people if you have a brass band and enough people to defend it if they link arms and stay tight (we have left wing brass here, which brought it to mind). So, for instance, you mess up image-making if people are marching around....followed by tuba. Or followed by "The Worms Crawl In". There's risk to that, because a violent surge would overwhelm smaller numbers, but even there "nazis beat up bassoonist" is not as photogenic as "nazis slug it out with antifa".
I really think that noise and music are possible weapons when we don't have numbers, and I think it's important to remember that an otherwise low-purpose event like the march round an empty campus exists to create images.
posted by Frowner at 8:04 AM on August 12, 2017 [71 favorites]
I'd gladly let all sides protest, and look as dumb/cool/awful/whatever as they want. As long as that statue comes down. Progress.
posted by rc3spencer at 8:12 AM on August 12, 2017
posted by rc3spencer at 8:12 AM on August 12, 2017
Sockin'inthefreeworld: AP: BREAKING: Senior US diplomat has engaged in back-channel diplomacy with NKorea for several months; contacts ongoing.
I have a hard time believing this is true until we get confirmation from other sources and reports of progress. Until then it feels like either damage control from the administration ("We're not crazy, we swear!"), an attempt to justify a war in advance ("Look, we tried talking, but the time for talking is over, the bombers are in the air"), or the media's constant need to try to rationalize his crazy actions as some kind of 4D chess rather than confront the existential threat facing our nation.
Since there always seem to be various factions fighting in the administration, there's also the chance someone sane got him to agree to an attempt at diplomacy in a meeting ("Sure, whatever") and he's completely forgotten it's happening. Even if they manage to hammer out a deal, I could still see him abandoning it at the last second because someone else gets in his ear about how it's a bad deal that makes him look weak or Fox & Friends pushes for war that morning. Don't forget that in the calculation - North Korea has to look at the Paris Accord and Trump's attempts to not honor the Iran deal and wonder if they can even trust his word. Also: if Trump was really, truly committed to diplomacy he would've nominated a FUCKING AMBASSADOR TO SOUTH KOREA.
posted by bluecore at 8:17 AM on August 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
I have a hard time believing this is true until we get confirmation from other sources and reports of progress. Until then it feels like either damage control from the administration ("We're not crazy, we swear!"), an attempt to justify a war in advance ("Look, we tried talking, but the time for talking is over, the bombers are in the air"), or the media's constant need to try to rationalize his crazy actions as some kind of 4D chess rather than confront the existential threat facing our nation.
Since there always seem to be various factions fighting in the administration, there's also the chance someone sane got him to agree to an attempt at diplomacy in a meeting ("Sure, whatever") and he's completely forgotten it's happening. Even if they manage to hammer out a deal, I could still see him abandoning it at the last second because someone else gets in his ear about how it's a bad deal that makes him look weak or Fox & Friends pushes for war that morning. Don't forget that in the calculation - North Korea has to look at the Paris Accord and Trump's attempts to not honor the Iran deal and wonder if they can even trust his word. Also: if Trump was really, truly committed to diplomacy he would've nominated a FUCKING AMBASSADOR TO SOUTH KOREA.
posted by bluecore at 8:17 AM on August 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
This means, in effect, that Trump and Kim both know to ignore each other’s public posturing. They’re relying instead on that backchannel for whatever they’re actually saying to each other.
Told you they're DMing while shouting in public. It's all a frikken adulation and profit puppet show for DJT
posted by tilde at 8:18 AM on August 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
So what I'm hearing about Charlottesville is that the protest was scheduled for today. The one last night was unannounced and unpermitted, which is why the counter-protesters were outnumbered. I also heard there were 1000 alright assholes and 5000 counterprotesters.
Just thinking of SHS responding to a question about this makes me stabby. If I had a plasma torch I'd go cut down the statue.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:23 AM on August 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Just thinking of SHS responding to a question about this makes me stabby. If I had a plasma torch I'd go cut down the statue.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:23 AM on August 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trump would absolutely start a shooting war as part of his puppet show, because he is incompetent.
posted by Artw at 8:25 AM on August 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:25 AM on August 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
it's mainly about images that can be shared on the internetIf my twitter feed is any indication, that propaganda war has already begun. They've created "compare/contrast" images of "BLM protests" with the tiki trot, highlighting images of destroyed property and injured protesters from riots contrasted against pretty tiki lights surrounding a founding father who was also a slave owner. It's gross.
posted by xyzzy at 8:25 AM on August 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
I've been cycling through the twitter feeds and that SURJ Facebook streaming link from above. Now more fights (no articles yet but #charlottesville has a bunch of videos), lots of pepper spray or mace (see e.g. SURJ stream), tasers (Mathias twitter)...
about 10 minutes ago:
Charlottesville City Hall twitter: Local emergency declared
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 8:30 AM on August 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
about 10 minutes ago:
Charlottesville City Hall twitter: Local emergency declared
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 8:30 AM on August 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Alt-right watcher JJ MacNab (of the Bundy stand-off and Oregon occupation fame) has a Charlottesville twitter list going.
And it's useful to compare the images on that list, with white supremacists openly carrying riot shields, armor and weapons with no police contact; to the unarmed Ferguson protesters immediately confronted by militarized response from riot police.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:35 AM on August 12, 2017 [47 favorites]
And it's useful to compare the images on that list, with white supremacists openly carrying riot shields, armor and weapons with no police contact; to the unarmed Ferguson protesters immediately confronted by militarized response from riot police.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:35 AM on August 12, 2017 [47 favorites]
Most of the Right-Wing Media Seems Embarrassed by the Charlottesville Neo-Nazis
You might assume this is huge news in right-wing media. It isn't, at least so far. It's nowhere on Breitbart's front page (though the front page does feature stories such as "Starbucks Attracts Refugees with Latent TB"). Daily Caller? Nothing. Infowars? Nothing, although Infowars and its news spinoff Newswars both feature an AP story about the League of the South's perpetual calls for Southern secession.posted by tonycpsu at 8:36 AM on August 12, 2017 [28 favorites]
Below the top block of stories (about North Korea), Fox News has the front-page headline "VIRGINIA ON GUARD: White Nationalist Rally Prompts Safety Precautions." The story, which is fairly neutral, focuses on today's planned protests (and Governor Terry McAuliffe's call for everyone to stay away from the protest site); there are a couple of paragraphs about what happened last night. At Drudge the demonstration is a sidebar (Venezuela is Drudge's top story), and Drudge also features the secession story, which is above the story about last night's demonstration.
Maybe it's early yet -- none of these folks are serious 24/7 newsgatherers. Maybe they haven't lined up their talking points yet. (How do we blame this on liberals?)
But they're not jumping on the story. They seem rather embarrassed by it.
Understandably, I think -- it gives the game away. They've spent so much time telling us that liberal accusations of racism are hype that they don't want to expose evidence that they're not hype. They've put so much effort into telling us that defenders of Confederate monuments wish only to preserve "heritage" and "history" that they inevitably want to downplay a demonstration that links support of Confederate monuments to white nationalism.
Richard Painter, just now: I will call for the impeachment of the president if he doesn't fire Sebastian Gorka, Steve Bannon, and all the other fascists immediately.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:37 AM on August 12, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 8:37 AM on August 12, 2017 [21 favorites]
Nobody seems to have commented on this. This is one step above a fucking crayon.
I dare you to graduate your infant from crayon to Sharpie. It will be glorious and probably go viral on the internets.
posted by srboisvert at 8:42 AM on August 12, 2017 [19 favorites]
I dare you to graduate your infant from crayon to Sharpie. It will be glorious and probably go viral on the internets.
posted by srboisvert at 8:42 AM on August 12, 2017 [19 favorites]
I like the mockery in his statement.
@senorrinhatch
Their tiki torches may be fueled by citronella but their ideas are fueled by hate, & have no place in civil society.
posted by chris24 at 8:45 AM on August 12, 2017 [34 favorites]
@senorrinhatch
Their tiki torches may be fueled by citronella but their ideas are fueled by hate, & have no place in civil society.
posted by chris24 at 8:45 AM on August 12, 2017 [34 favorites]
Baked Alaska just took pepper spray. He's rolling on the ground and wailing and not acting like an alpha. The fact that a small part of me feels bad for him means that my human empathy hasn't been completely destroyed by this new dark age, I guess?
Also: gathering's declared an unlawful assembly as per the cops on the live feed. That's all folks.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:45 AM on August 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
Also: gathering's declared an unlawful assembly as per the cops on the live feed. That's all folks.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:45 AM on August 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
Also: if Trump was really, truly committed to diplomacy he would've nominated a FUCKING AMBASSADOR TO SOUTH KOREA.
Just think for a moment about who would he appoint. Denis Rodman is my optimistic guess but I think Charles Manson is more likely. Not doing anything is probably the very best thing the Donald could do.
posted by srboisvert at 8:47 AM on August 12, 2017
Just think for a moment about who would he appoint. Denis Rodman is my optimistic guess but I think Charles Manson is more likely. Not doing anything is probably the very best thing the Donald could do.
posted by srboisvert at 8:47 AM on August 12, 2017
Y'all, I am as troubled by the NK dynamics as all of you. But I also keep thinking: Trump lobbed the trans ban in the military on the very same day the Muller's team sprung a surprise raid on Manafort. Trump is now posturing in an even more outrageous, "can't look away" fashion--even though, as other reports provide context that US military in Guam is not on alert, dependents are not being evacuated, other diplomatic channels to NK are and have been open, etc, etc.
Yes, the big war dance he's doing matters and is wrong and it stupid dick-waving gamesmanship.
I'm holding out hope that it's also another panicked smokescreen arising from a move by the Mueller team that we'll learn about in a month or so.
posted by Sublimity at 8:48 AM on August 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
Yes, the big war dance he's doing matters and is wrong and it stupid dick-waving gamesmanship.
I'm holding out hope that it's also another panicked smokescreen arising from a move by the Mueller team that we'll learn about in a month or so.
posted by Sublimity at 8:48 AM on August 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
Along the lines of what Frowner said, when the EDL showed up to demonstrate in Liverpool, counter protestors had a PA, which they used to blast Yakety Sax at them, as they were basically run out of town. It was very effective .
posted by skybluepink at 8:50 AM on August 12, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by skybluepink at 8:50 AM on August 12, 2017 [32 favorites]
The rally in cville has apparently been declared an unlawful gathering. Still guessing the cops aren't going to do jack nor shit.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:50 AM on August 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by schadenfrau at 8:50 AM on August 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Still guessing the cops aren't going to do jack nor shit.
They're clearing the park, lots of Nazis walking away, without arrest, to parts unknown. Seems like a great plan to turn them loose on the town right now. It's still early.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:54 AM on August 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
They're clearing the park, lots of Nazis walking away, without arrest, to parts unknown. Seems like a great plan to turn them loose on the town right now. It's still early.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:54 AM on August 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
The rally in cville has apparently been declared an unlawful gathering. Still guessing the cops aren't going to do jack nor shit
Arrest counter-protesters?
posted by Room 641-A at 8:54 AM on August 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
Arrest counter-protesters?
posted by Room 641-A at 8:54 AM on August 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
The rally was scheduled to start at noon.
A lot of people have left but a lot of people are still there (there's a photo of Nazis facing off with or pushing back on a line of riot police)
ACLU et al reporting on twitter that police are bringing in tank/armored vehicle
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 9:02 AM on August 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
A lot of people have left but a lot of people are still there (there's a photo of Nazis facing off with or pushing back on a line of riot police)
ACLU et al reporting on twitter that police are bringing in tank/armored vehicle
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 9:02 AM on August 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Chinese president speaks with Trump and urges calm over North Korea
Xi Jinping says all sides should avoid rhetoric
Trump’s ‘locked and loaded’ tweet earns rebuke from Angela Merkel (today's Guardian)
It seems no one really knows what is going on or what to do about it while Trump is being obnoxious and ignorant. Trump administration in a nutshell.
posted by mumimor at 9:05 AM on August 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Xi Jinping says all sides should avoid rhetoric
Trump’s ‘locked and loaded’ tweet earns rebuke from Angela Merkel (today's Guardian)
It seems no one really knows what is going on or what to do about it while Trump is being obnoxious and ignorant. Trump administration in a nutshell.
posted by mumimor at 9:05 AM on August 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
I've been scrolling through twitter, because I don't care about my mental health? Anyway, I expected to be completely horrified by all the video, and I am. But that's not my only reaction. My first reaction is "they look fucking ridiculous."
We're all trained on videos with fairly high production values, especially for anything action-related. We have really high expectations for what "looks cool," and anything else tends to look kind of...silly? So I find myself weirdly pleased that amateur fascist theatrics might not play in the modern age. These people are all about their toxic masculinity and their pride. Looking ridiculous unmans them. Live video is not their friend.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:06 AM on August 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
We're all trained on videos with fairly high production values, especially for anything action-related. We have really high expectations for what "looks cool," and anything else tends to look kind of...silly? So I find myself weirdly pleased that amateur fascist theatrics might not play in the modern age. These people are all about their toxic masculinity and their pride. Looking ridiculous unmans them. Live video is not their friend.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:06 AM on August 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
@JuliusGoat
Imagine if these people ever faced actual oppression.
- Nobody is trying to legislate away their right to marry. Nobody is trying to make them buy insurance to pay for 'male health care.'
- The law never: Enslaved their great-grandparents, Robbed their grandparents, Imprisoned their parents, Shot them when unarmed
- There is no massive effort at the state and local level to disenfranchise them of the vote.
- There is no history of centuries of bad science devoted to 'proving' their intellectual inferiority.
- There is no travel ban on them because of their religion. There is no danger for them when they carry dangerous weaponry publicly.
- Their churches were never burned. Their lawns never decorated with burning crosses. Their ancestors never hung from trees
- Their mothers aren't being torn away by ICE troopers and sent away forever. They won't be forced to leave the only country they ever knew.
- The president has not set up a hotline to report crime committed at their hands.
- They are chanting 'we will not be replaced.' Replaced as ... what? I'll tell you.
- Replaced as the only voice in public discussions. Replaced as the only bodies in the public arena. Replaced as the only life that matters.
- THIS is 'white people' oppression: We used to be the only voice. Now we hold the only microphone.
- THIS is 'white man' oppression: We face criticism now. We were free from it, because others feared the consequences.
- THIS is 'oppression' of white Christians in this country: Christmas used to be the only holiday acknowledged, now it's not.
- I would so love to see these people get all the oppression they insist they receive, just for a year. Just to see.
- Give them a world where you ACTUALLY can't say Christmas. A world where the name "Geoff" on a resume puts it in the trash.
- Give them a world where they suddenly get a 20% pay cut, and then 70 women every day tell them to smile more.
- Give them a world where their polo shirt makes people nervous, so they're kicked off the flight from Pittsburgh to Indianapolis.
- Give them a world where they inherited nothing but a very real understanding of what oppression really fucking is.
- Give them a world where if they pulled up on a campus with torches lit and started throwing hands, the cops would punch their eyes out.
- Put THAT in your Tiki torches and light it, you sorry Nazi bitches. Good morning, by the way, how is everybody.
posted by chris24 at 9:11 AM on August 12, 2017 [219 favorites]
Imagine if these people ever faced actual oppression.
- Nobody is trying to legislate away their right to marry. Nobody is trying to make them buy insurance to pay for 'male health care.'
- The law never: Enslaved their great-grandparents, Robbed their grandparents, Imprisoned their parents, Shot them when unarmed
- There is no massive effort at the state and local level to disenfranchise them of the vote.
- There is no history of centuries of bad science devoted to 'proving' their intellectual inferiority.
- There is no travel ban on them because of their religion. There is no danger for them when they carry dangerous weaponry publicly.
- Their churches were never burned. Their lawns never decorated with burning crosses. Their ancestors never hung from trees
- Their mothers aren't being torn away by ICE troopers and sent away forever. They won't be forced to leave the only country they ever knew.
- The president has not set up a hotline to report crime committed at their hands.
- They are chanting 'we will not be replaced.' Replaced as ... what? I'll tell you.
- Replaced as the only voice in public discussions. Replaced as the only bodies in the public arena. Replaced as the only life that matters.
- THIS is 'white people' oppression: We used to be the only voice. Now we hold the only microphone.
- THIS is 'white man' oppression: We face criticism now. We were free from it, because others feared the consequences.
- THIS is 'oppression' of white Christians in this country: Christmas used to be the only holiday acknowledged, now it's not.
- I would so love to see these people get all the oppression they insist they receive, just for a year. Just to see.
- Give them a world where you ACTUALLY can't say Christmas. A world where the name "Geoff" on a resume puts it in the trash.
- Give them a world where they suddenly get a 20% pay cut, and then 70 women every day tell them to smile more.
- Give them a world where their polo shirt makes people nervous, so they're kicked off the flight from Pittsburgh to Indianapolis.
- Give them a world where they inherited nothing but a very real understanding of what oppression really fucking is.
- Give them a world where if they pulled up on a campus with torches lit and started throwing hands, the cops would punch their eyes out.
- Put THAT in your Tiki torches and light it, you sorry Nazi bitches. Good morning, by the way, how is everybody.
posted by chris24 at 9:11 AM on August 12, 2017 [219 favorites]
Trump: Madman theory 2.0, this time minus the theory.
posted by runcifex at 9:13 AM on August 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by runcifex at 9:13 AM on August 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm watching a FB live stream of a Nazi protester called Andrew, going by the name Black Rebel. He got pepper sprayed earlier and is out for revenge. Carrying a baseball bat and a wooden shield. Roaming now looking for antifa stragglers. I would not want to meet these creeps. JFC.
posted by stonepharisee at 9:19 AM on August 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by stonepharisee at 9:19 AM on August 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Trump: Too crazy for Boys Town, too much of a boy for Crazy Town
posted by kirkaracha at 9:22 AM on August 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 9:22 AM on August 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Definitely not over. All the Nazis who left just moved to another park.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:23 AM on August 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:23 AM on August 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Jesus Christ, it's amazing to me how much these people expect to be insulated from consequences. I mean...I can't...like what? They fully expect to be able to livestream their hunt for humans to beat with a goddamn baseball bat, in the middle of the goddamn day, and just have that be fine?
WHAT MUST THAT BE LIKE.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:23 AM on August 12, 2017 [39 favorites]
WHAT MUST THAT BE LIKE.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:23 AM on August 12, 2017 [39 favorites]
They fully expect to be able to livestream their hunt for humans to beat with a goddamn baseball bat, in the middle of the goddamn day, and just have that be fine?
Hey now, have some sympathy for the oppressed white man.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:25 AM on August 12, 2017
Hey now, have some sympathy for the oppressed white man.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:25 AM on August 12, 2017
ACLU of Virginia reports that, after original park cleared, crowds are moving down the street to Justice Park. Counterprotesters are already there.
Someone else on twitter was reporting violent fights among those dispersing from first park site; an especially violent one (involving guns) in a parking garage.
AP tweet: Virginia governor declares state of emergency in response to white nationalist rally.
HuffPo article with live updates (by Andy Campbell and Christopher Mathias): White Supremacists Show Up To A City That Didn’t Want Them, Chant ‘Blood And Soil’
(Anyone else have a good aggregate link?)
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 9:25 AM on August 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Someone else on twitter was reporting violent fights among those dispersing from first park site; an especially violent one (involving guns) in a parking garage.
AP tweet: Virginia governor declares state of emergency in response to white nationalist rally.
HuffPo article with live updates (by Andy Campbell and Christopher Mathias): White Supremacists Show Up To A City That Didn’t Want Them, Chant ‘Blood And Soil’
(Anyone else have a good aggregate link?)
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 9:25 AM on August 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Honestly, the fact of the rally is one thing. But seeing the level of violence and bullshit that the police are willing to tolerate from the right is, to me, much more frightening.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:26 AM on August 12, 2017 [41 favorites]
posted by schadenfrau at 9:26 AM on August 12, 2017 [41 favorites]
What's with the damn Tiki Torch thing anyway? Seems like a weird little bit of cultural signaling for a bunch of idiotic racial/cultural puritans. Seems bizarrely lacking in self awareness, like how Ted Nugent doesn't have any gratitude or appreciation for the black musical traditions that created an audience to appreciate his hack blues-derivative lead guitar work and make him the accomplished, successful ubermensch he is today in his own imagination.
posted by saulgoodman at 9:26 AM on August 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by saulgoodman at 9:26 AM on August 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
My brain is also having a really hard time reconciling how ridiculous these people look with how scary their actions are. It's like watching the Star Wars Kid do something violent.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:28 AM on August 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by schadenfrau at 9:28 AM on August 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
Fascism Has Already Come To America - "It is impossible to read about the post-Reconstruction, pre–Jim Crow era without alarms going off in your head. The complete capitulation to segregation and Jim Crow was caused by the collapse of the institutions restraining it: Southern populism, Southern conservatism, and Northern liberalism. As Woodward wrote, "The South’s adoption of extreme racism was due not so much to a conversion as it was to a relaxation of the opposition. All the elements of fear, jealousy, proscription, hatred, and fanaticism had long been present ... What enabled them to rise to dominance was not so much cleverness or ingenuity as it was a general weakening and discrediting of the numerous forces that had hitherto kept them in check.""
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:28 AM on August 12, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:28 AM on August 12, 2017 [25 favorites]
My brain is also having a really hard time reconciling how ridiculous these people look with how scary their actions are. It's like watching the Star Wars Kid do something violent.
I mean Himmler was kinda the original Star Wars Kid. Dude was a mega-nerd failed chicken farmer who tried to telepathically communicate with mystical gnomes.
Also: looks like the second nazi congregation is being dispersed by the cops.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:31 AM on August 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
I mean Himmler was kinda the original Star Wars Kid. Dude was a mega-nerd failed chicken farmer who tried to telepathically communicate with mystical gnomes.
Also: looks like the second nazi congregation is being dispersed by the cops.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:31 AM on August 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
@GOPChairwoman
The hate & bigotry on display in #charlottesville is dangerous & cowardly.
- Free speech may give them the right to do this but also empowers us to unite to loudly speak out against it.
@EWErickson
Since all people are created in the image of God, there can be no superior race. All are equal at birth. White supremacy is against God.
@SpeakerRyan
The views fueling the spectacle in Charlottesville are repugnant. Let it only serve to unite Americans against this kind of vile bigotry.
@EdWGillespie
My statement on the events in Charlottesville https://edforvirginia.com/2017/08/12/gillespie-statement-events-charlottesville/
---
Nothing from the fascist-in-chief.
posted by chris24 at 9:35 AM on August 12, 2017 [17 favorites]
The hate & bigotry on display in #charlottesville is dangerous & cowardly.
- Free speech may give them the right to do this but also empowers us to unite to loudly speak out against it.
@EWErickson
Since all people are created in the image of God, there can be no superior race. All are equal at birth. White supremacy is against God.
@SpeakerRyan
The views fueling the spectacle in Charlottesville are repugnant. Let it only serve to unite Americans against this kind of vile bigotry.
@EdWGillespie
My statement on the events in Charlottesville https://edforvirginia.com/2017/08/12/gillespie-statement-events-charlottesville/
---
Nothing from the fascist-in-chief.
posted by chris24 at 9:35 AM on August 12, 2017 [17 favorites]
I mean Himmler was kinda the original Star Wars Kid
And the rest of them were into a bunch of adolescent occult insanity, right?
I suppose, yeah. The ones who make it hard to be afraid of them are the ones who don't get knocked down. But I wonder if Hitler et al would have gained critical political mass if the public could see all of their ridiculousness.
Not something you want to test, obviously, but imma take my silver linings where I can find them. Dudes look silly.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:36 AM on August 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
And the rest of them were into a bunch of adolescent occult insanity, right?
I suppose, yeah. The ones who make it hard to be afraid of them are the ones who don't get knocked down. But I wonder if Hitler et al would have gained critical political mass if the public could see all of their ridiculousness.
Not something you want to test, obviously, but imma take my silver linings where I can find them. Dudes look silly.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:36 AM on August 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
@GOPChairwoman
@EWErickson
@SpeakerRyan
@EdWGillespie
Shorter GOP officials: "Stop giving away the game! You're not supposed to be so open about it, it's much more effective to enact racist policies in Congress".
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:41 AM on August 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
@EWErickson
@SpeakerRyan
@EdWGillespie
Shorter GOP officials: "Stop giving away the game! You're not supposed to be so open about it, it's much more effective to enact racist policies in Congress".
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:41 AM on August 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
NYT: Mueller Is Said to Be in Talks With White House About Interviewing Officials
In a sign that the investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election will remain a continuing distraction for the White House, the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, is in talks with the West Wing about interviewing current and former senior administration officials, including the recently ousted White House chief of staff, Reince Priebus, according to three people briefed on the discussions.posted by chris24 at 9:41 AM on August 12, 2017 [21 favorites]
Mr. Mueller has asked the White House about specific meetings, who attended them and whether there are any notes, transcripts or documents about them, two of the people said. Among the matters Mr. Mueller wants to ask the officials about is President Trump’s decision in May to fire the F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, the two people said.
That line of questioning will be important as Mr. Mueller continues to investigate whether Mr. Trump obstructed justice in the dismissal of Mr. Comey.
Re: music being used to effectively counter the nazis protesting - I have a counterprotest wish list going on Amazon, that consists of a mouth harp, slide whistle, siren whistle, wood block, and triangle - I don't think it would take an exceptional amount of talent for people to put this to excellent use, it would just be a matter of effective timing, and it's all relatively inexpensive.
posted by MysticMCJ at 9:43 AM on August 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by MysticMCJ at 9:43 AM on August 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
What's with the damn Tiki Torch thing anyway? Seems like a weird little bit of cultural signaling for a bunch of idiotic racial/cultural puritans.
For 95% of the public, "tiki torches" are simply "the torches you put in your back yard around your deck". The word "tiki" most likely doesn't mean anything to them, it's just a name, like "loveseat" or "fruit bowl". "Tiki" is just what those things are called.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:43 AM on August 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
For 95% of the public, "tiki torches" are simply "the torches you put in your back yard around your deck". The word "tiki" most likely doesn't mean anything to them, it's just a name, like "loveseat" or "fruit bowl". "Tiki" is just what those things are called.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:43 AM on August 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
What's with the damn Tiki Torch thing anyway? Seems like a weird little bit of cultural signaling for a bunch of idiotic racial/cultural puritans.
Because to make a nazi torchlight parade you need torches, and most of them wouldn't know how to make one without burning their face and arms off, and decorative tiki torches are like 10 bucks at walmart?
posted by lmfsilva at 9:43 AM on August 12, 2017 [36 favorites]
Because to make a nazi torchlight parade you need torches, and most of them wouldn't know how to make one without burning their face and arms off, and decorative tiki torches are like 10 bucks at walmart?
posted by lmfsilva at 9:43 AM on August 12, 2017 [36 favorites]
Cheers in Charlottesville as police arrest Richard Spencer.
posted by stonepharisee at 9:47 AM on August 12, 2017 [69 favorites]
posted by stonepharisee at 9:47 AM on August 12, 2017 [69 favorites]
That was the intent all along, wasn't it. Make himself a martyr.
posted by yesster at 9:49 AM on August 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by yesster at 9:49 AM on August 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Tom Perriello is on the ground and still winning twitter: "Favorite moment so far- two white supremacists with wooden shields & swords lept in terror as gay black man offered them a bottle of water."
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:53 AM on August 12, 2017 [80 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:53 AM on August 12, 2017 [80 favorites]
That was the intent all along, wasn't it. Make himself a martyr.
There's really no win that's a pure win with these fuckers. They love being martyrs for a cause and they love being visible assholes, so if you arrest them or protest them you are giving them what they want. But they also want to be open white supremacists, so if you just let them do that, you're also giving them what they want. But anything that leads to Richard Spencer experiencing physical discomfort is at least a partial victory.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:53 AM on August 12, 2017 [21 favorites]
It doesn't matter. Fascism is a movement based on imaginary white grievance. "Martyring" them by creating consequences doesn't make them more right or more extreme. There is literally zero reason not to.
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:53 AM on August 12, 2017 [42 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:53 AM on August 12, 2017 [42 favorites]
The consensus among the nazi livestreamers is that they greatly outnumbered the antifa scum and were on the verge of total victory when the police forced them to disperse. Blame is all on the cops. Can't overstate how hopeful this is as a developing dynamic: the more antagonism between them and the police, the less chance they have of ever wielding state-sanctioned violence on a local level.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:53 AM on August 12, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:53 AM on August 12, 2017 [34 favorites]
Nothing from the fascist-in-chief.
I saw a Melania tweet on TV. She's against hate but for free speech. Why she's the spokesperson IDK.
posted by puddledork at 9:54 AM on August 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
I saw a Melania tweet on TV. She's against hate but for free speech. Why she's the spokesperson IDK.
posted by puddledork at 9:54 AM on August 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
I saw a Melania tweet on TV. She's against hate but for free speech. Why she's the spokesperson IDK.
Yes, just saw that she tweeted this:
@FLOTUS
Our country encourages freedom of speech, but let's communicate w/o hate in our hearts. No good comes from violence. #Charlottesville
And Cory Gardner, R senator from CO.
@SenCoryGardner
The hate being spewed in Virginia has no place in this country. It's deeply disturbing and un-American.
posted by chris24 at 9:58 AM on August 12, 2017
Yes, just saw that she tweeted this:
@FLOTUS
Our country encourages freedom of speech, but let's communicate w/o hate in our hearts. No good comes from violence. #Charlottesville
And Cory Gardner, R senator from CO.
@SenCoryGardner
The hate being spewed in Virginia has no place in this country. It's deeply disturbing and un-American.
posted by chris24 at 9:58 AM on August 12, 2017
That's not a statement, that's a nothing. They are pro Nazi.
posted by Artw at 9:59 AM on August 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:59 AM on August 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
@FLOTUS
Our country encourages freedom of speech, but let's communicate w/o hate in our hearts. No good comes from violence. #Charlottesville
Well that's some vapid bothsides bullshit. "Hey, can't we all just get along, even when there's a group of people out there who think you should be rounded up into cams and executed? I mean, come on guys. Guys? Guys, come on."
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:00 AM on August 12, 2017 [28 favorites]
Our country encourages freedom of speech, but let's communicate w/o hate in our hearts. No good comes from violence. #Charlottesville
Well that's some vapid bothsides bullshit. "Hey, can't we all just get along, even when there's a group of people out there who think you should be rounded up into cams and executed? I mean, come on guys. Guys? Guys, come on."
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:00 AM on August 12, 2017 [28 favorites]
@FLOTUS
Our country encourages freedom of speech, but let's communicate w/o hate in our hearts. No good comes from violence. #Charlottesville
Tell it to your fucking husband, Melania. He promotes this shit, he revved up and emboldened these assholes.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:01 AM on August 12, 2017 [41 favorites]
Our country encourages freedom of speech, but let's communicate w/o hate in our hearts. No good comes from violence. #Charlottesville
Tell it to your fucking husband, Melania. He promotes this shit, he revved up and emboldened these assholes.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:01 AM on August 12, 2017 [41 favorites]
National Treasure John Dingell doing a statement right.
@JohnDingell
I signed up to fight Nazis 73 years ago and I'll do it again if I have to.
Hatred, bigotry, & fascism should have no place in this country.
posted by chris24 at 10:02 AM on August 12, 2017 [104 favorites]
@JohnDingell
I signed up to fight Nazis 73 years ago and I'll do it again if I have to.
Hatred, bigotry, & fascism should have no place in this country.
posted by chris24 at 10:02 AM on August 12, 2017 [104 favorites]
As per a couple of live streams I watched, the Nazis kept all of their wives and kids away from the scene but decided that macing a student in a wheelchair was an okay move. I don't know how you have (protect the vulnerable) alongside (mace an obviously vulnerable person) unless I don't know you don't think the other side has less equal human status or something.
posted by angrycat at 10:08 AM on August 12, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 10:08 AM on August 12, 2017 [16 favorites]
Favorite moment so far- two white supremacists with wooden shields & swords lept in terror as gay black man offered them a bottle of water."
Ohhhhhhh yeah .... I offered a "not-Obama" protester a sealed water bottle from the middle of a sealed 24 pack I was Carrying. He actually said something about not being able to trust it ... shoulda laughed at him but I thought he was a lone crazy guy
posted by tilde at 10:14 AM on August 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
(there's a FPP up about Charlottesville now)
posted by yesster at 10:16 AM on August 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by yesster at 10:16 AM on August 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Take your business elsewhere, Nazi scum.
Gotta love C'ville.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:16 AM on August 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
Gotta love C'ville.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:16 AM on August 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
Oh look, someone finally made him tweet a noncommittal statement "We ALL must be united & condemn all that hate stands for. There is no place for this kind of violence in America. Lets come together as one!"
Why won't he say the words "radical white supremacists"?
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:27 AM on August 12, 2017 [42 favorites]
Why won't he say the words "radical white supremacists"?
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:27 AM on August 12, 2017 [42 favorites]
I suppose, yeah. The ones who make it hard to be afraid of them are the ones who don't get knocked down. But I wonder if Hitler et al would have gained critical political mass if the public could see all of their ridiculousness.
The Adventures of Superman, presented by Kellogg's Pep Cereal:
posted by BS Artisan at 10:27 AM on August 12, 2017 [35 favorites]
The Adventures of Superman, presented by Kellogg's Pep Cereal:
On June 10, 1946, a Superman plotline began bearing the title “Clan of the Fiery Cross.” The episodes were broadcast daily, so the 16th and final episode appeared on June 25. In the story, Jimmy Olsen is managing a baseball team, but when he replaces his top pitcher with a more talented newcomer, the sorehead kid who has lost his slot ends up in the clutches of the “Clan of the Fiery Cross,” who volunteer to intimidate the “insufficiently American” star pitcher with burning crosses and the like. Jimmy Olsen (of course) takes the issue to Clark Kent, and in short order the Man of Steel is taking on the men in white hoods.Previously, previously-er, previously-est
Over the course of about two weeks, the shows exposed many of the KKK’s most guarded secrets, including code words and rituals. The Klan relied a great deal on an inscrutable air of menace and mystery, and the Superman serial stripped the Klan of that mystique utterly. Almost overnight, the Klan’s recruitment efforts began drying up completely. Source
posted by BS Artisan at 10:27 AM on August 12, 2017 [35 favorites]
Oh look, someone finally made him tweet a noncommittal statement "We ALL must be united & condemn all that hate stands for. There is no place for this kind of violence in America. Lets come together as one!"
Except probably he didn't
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 10:40 AM on August 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Except probably he didn't
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 10:40 AM on August 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
So sometime in the past week, someone here mentioned that they've modified "donald Trump" into something...else. "Don't [something] [something]", maybe?
Anyone recall this? I was laughing so hard but evidently forgot to favorite it.
posted by notsnot at 10:46 AM on August 12, 2017
Anyone recall this? I was laughing so hard but evidently forgot to favorite it.
posted by notsnot at 10:46 AM on August 12, 2017
Except probably he didn't
While I agree Scavino or somebody probably tweeted this, the iPhone vs Android thing has kinda lost it's predictive power. Both the "locked and loaded" and "Helpfully we will never have to use this power" tweets came from iPhone as did "Mitch get back to work and repeal Obamacare" and all the other Mitch attacks.
posted by chris24 at 10:47 AM on August 12, 2017
While I agree Scavino or somebody probably tweeted this, the iPhone vs Android thing has kinda lost it's predictive power. Both the "locked and loaded" and "Helpfully we will never have to use this power" tweets came from iPhone as did "Mitch get back to work and repeal Obamacare" and all the other Mitch attacks.
posted by chris24 at 10:47 AM on August 12, 2017
Dumb Old Chump?
posted by Tobu at 10:48 AM on August 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Tobu at 10:48 AM on August 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Oh look, someone finally made him tweet a noncommittal statement "We ALL must be united & condemn all that hate stands for. There is no place for this kind of violence in America. Lets come together as one!"
No way Donald Trump came up with three complete, coherent sentences in a row.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:52 AM on August 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
No way Donald Trump came up with three complete, coherent sentences in a row.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:52 AM on August 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Hearing that a car just drove into protestors.
posted by Artw at 10:57 AM on August 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:57 AM on August 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Accidental Renaissance painting style.
Clicked through for the cackling demons, was sorely disappointed
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:57 AM on August 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Clicked through for the cackling demons, was sorely disappointed
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:57 AM on August 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
NBC: "People on the scene say multiple injuries reported after 2 vehicles struck a small crowd of people standing on 4th St near Timberlake Drugs"
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:58 AM on August 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:58 AM on August 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Mod note: Noting again that there is now a dedicated thread for the Charlottesville situation. Not that it's unrelated to the larger everything, but to the extent that there's smaller updates vs. big picture stuff the smaller stuff would be better tracked over there rather than this thread.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:10 AM on August 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:10 AM on August 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
That's been my argument re: tiki. They're doing racism wrong. They're doing attention whoring right. So right, they're winning and there's no good damn response yet from anyone other than paid TV commentators.
Anti-racism doesn't get the airtime racism does. Anti-racist stalwarts don't get a social moral blessing, but Gorka and Bannon get security clearances. While we have our heroes, they aren't recognized in the way those who are taking a jackhammer to what's left to our national connective tissue. I find it so hard to feel optimistic for this country, save for the daily acts of common good between everyday people.
/rant /been years since I've posted a rant, hello again.
posted by moonbird at 11:24 AM on August 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Anti-racism doesn't get the airtime racism does. Anti-racist stalwarts don't get a social moral blessing, but Gorka and Bannon get security clearances. While we have our heroes, they aren't recognized in the way those who are taking a jackhammer to what's left to our national connective tissue. I find it so hard to feel optimistic for this country, save for the daily acts of common good between everyday people.
/rant /been years since I've posted a rant, hello again.
posted by moonbird at 11:24 AM on August 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
The Culture Wars Have Come to Silicon Valley
“What does it do to somebody when they feel like they literally can’t express themselves?”
White-hot trash from the New York Times while literal fascists and nazis are swarming Charlottesville. The "culture war" has been ongoing, this is just one of the few times rich white men have been hit. "Why can't I say women are inferior in the workplace on the workplace bulletin board? Wahhhh." Um, maybe because that makes you a garbage person, and people don't like working with garbage persons, what with the workplace being an environment that should foster teamwork rather than whiny victimy bullshit and telling your colleagues they are genetically inferior. #FailingNewYorkTimes
posted by Cookiebastard at 11:38 AM on August 12, 2017 [37 favorites]
“What does it do to somebody when they feel like they literally can’t express themselves?”
White-hot trash from the New York Times while literal fascists and nazis are swarming Charlottesville. The "culture war" has been ongoing, this is just one of the few times rich white men have been hit. "Why can't I say women are inferior in the workplace on the workplace bulletin board? Wahhhh." Um, maybe because that makes you a garbage person, and people don't like working with garbage persons, what with the workplace being an environment that should foster teamwork rather than whiny victimy bullshit and telling your colleagues they are genetically inferior. #FailingNewYorkTimes
posted by Cookiebastard at 11:38 AM on August 12, 2017 [37 favorites]
How can things keep getting worse.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 11:45 AM on August 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by A Terrible Llama at 11:45 AM on August 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
How can things keep getting worse.
I learned a long time ago to never ask that question. You're pretty much guaranteed to get an answer.
posted by azpenguin at 11:55 AM on August 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
I learned a long time ago to never ask that question. You're pretty much guaranteed to get an answer.
posted by azpenguin at 11:55 AM on August 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
Why won't he say the words "radical white supremacists"?
Because those words don't make any sense! Radicals are Muslims, not white people.
posted by flabdablet at 11:57 AM on August 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Because those words don't make any sense! Radicals are Muslims, not white people.
posted by flabdablet at 11:57 AM on August 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
I learned a long time ago to never ask that question. You're pretty much guaranteed to get an answer.
I didn't have high expectations for daily life or even life in general, I just never expected to get the answer multiple times every day.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 12:02 PM on August 12, 2017
I didn't have high expectations for daily life or even life in general, I just never expected to get the answer multiple times every day.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 12:02 PM on August 12, 2017
@ThePlumLineGS (WaPo)
THREAD:
1) This new NYT report suggests Mueller is very focused on Trump obstruction: [two screenshots] - NYT: Mueller Is Said to Seek Interviews With West Wing in Russia Case
2) First shows Mueller is recreating facts leading up to Comey firing. He may want to know more about Sessions/Rosenstein/Trump meeting.
3) I wrote about that meeting here: http://wapo.st/2wSnmMT One Q: Whether Trump deliberately sought Rosenstein memo as cover for firing.
4) The second of those screencaps makes two points. The first is that Comey warned Priebus against WH-FBI discussions of ongoing probe.
5) But *after* that warning, Trump told Comey to drop probe into Flynn. NYT says it's unclear if Priebus relayed Comey's warning to Trump.
6) But it's hard to imagine Priebus would *not* have conveyed such a warning from FBI director. Mueller seems to want to know either way.
7) If Priebus did convey that warning, that would blow apart GOP line that Trump overstepped with Comey b/c he was just "learning the rules"
8) Second point in second screen cap is that Priebus may have direct knowledge of meeting in which Trump demanded Comey drop Flynn probe.
9) Prosecutors want Priebus to verify key details re that meeting. In background: Trump himself confirmed he fired Comey b/c of Russia probe
10) The key is that every one of these data points may add to a *pattern,* which prosecutors seek to establish in obstruction cases. FIN
posted by chris24 at 12:03 PM on August 12, 2017 [24 favorites]
THREAD:
1) This new NYT report suggests Mueller is very focused on Trump obstruction: [two screenshots] - NYT: Mueller Is Said to Seek Interviews With West Wing in Russia Case
2) First shows Mueller is recreating facts leading up to Comey firing. He may want to know more about Sessions/Rosenstein/Trump meeting.
3) I wrote about that meeting here: http://wapo.st/2wSnmMT One Q: Whether Trump deliberately sought Rosenstein memo as cover for firing.
4) The second of those screencaps makes two points. The first is that Comey warned Priebus against WH-FBI discussions of ongoing probe.
5) But *after* that warning, Trump told Comey to drop probe into Flynn. NYT says it's unclear if Priebus relayed Comey's warning to Trump.
6) But it's hard to imagine Priebus would *not* have conveyed such a warning from FBI director. Mueller seems to want to know either way.
7) If Priebus did convey that warning, that would blow apart GOP line that Trump overstepped with Comey b/c he was just "learning the rules"
8) Second point in second screen cap is that Priebus may have direct knowledge of meeting in which Trump demanded Comey drop Flynn probe.
9) Prosecutors want Priebus to verify key details re that meeting. In background: Trump himself confirmed he fired Comey b/c of Russia probe
10) The key is that every one of these data points may add to a *pattern,* which prosecutors seek to establish in obstruction cases. FIN
posted by chris24 at 12:03 PM on August 12, 2017 [24 favorites]
@DrDavidDuke retweeting @realDonaldTrump: I would recommend you take a good look in the mirror & remember it was White Americans who put you in the presidency, not radical leftists.
White Supremacists say the President of the United States is beholden to them. Thank about that.
posted by zachlipton at 12:08 PM on August 12, 2017 [86 favorites]
White Supremacists say the President of the United States is beholden to them. Thank about that.
posted by zachlipton at 12:08 PM on August 12, 2017 [86 favorites]
NEWSWEEK EXCLUSIVE: NORTH KOREAN MISSILE CLAIMS ARE ‘A HOAX’ Warning: annoying autoplay
posted by mumimor at 12:08 PM on August 12, 2017
posted by mumimor at 12:08 PM on August 12, 2017
That looks like the same thing as "North Korea’s “not quite” ICBM from the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists," from yesterday, if you're getting deja vu.
Live streaming link for Trump's VA bill signing, if you want to see if he says anything besides "Charlottesville sad!"
posted by zachlipton at 12:16 PM on August 12, 2017
Live streaming link for Trump's VA bill signing, if you want to see if he says anything besides "Charlottesville sad!"
posted by zachlipton at 12:16 PM on August 12, 2017
White Supremacists say the President of the United States is beholden to them. Thank about that.
So there's two pee pee tapes?
posted by peeedro at 12:18 PM on August 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
So there's two pee pee tapes?
posted by peeedro at 12:18 PM on August 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
It's just piss all the way down, at this point.
posted by lydhre at 12:26 PM on August 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 12:26 PM on August 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
Live streaming link yt for Trump's VA bill signing
This was originally scheduled for 12:00, and on TV they've had box in the corner since at least 11:55. There are five or six veterans on the stage, including an elderly man who looks to be around 75. They have been standing there over 30 minutes.
posted by Room 641-A at 12:30 PM on August 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
This was originally scheduled for 12:00, and on TV they've had box in the corner since at least 11:55. There are five or six veterans on the stage, including an elderly man who looks to be around 75. They have been standing there over 30 minutes.
posted by Room 641-A at 12:30 PM on August 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Trump, on stage, calls the veterans "fellas." The first veteran in line is a woman.
posted by Room 641-A at 12:36 PM on August 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 12:36 PM on August 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
"...on many sides..."
posted by bird internet at 12:36 PM on August 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by bird internet at 12:36 PM on August 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
Did he just walk off and forget to sign the bill and had to come back and make a lame excuse about a change in location for the signing?
posted by chris24 at 12:45 PM on August 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 12:45 PM on August 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
Yes, and then he refused to respond to pleas for him to renounce the support of white nationalists.
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:49 PM on August 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:49 PM on August 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
That was a dog whistle shitshow.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 12:51 PM on August 12, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by Barack Spinoza at 12:51 PM on August 12, 2017 [18 favorites]
My fave part is him checking his watch about 30 seconds in. Real old man-I-can't-quite-see check on the watch.
He also has managed to really perfect the dementia-where-am-I-again? pause for dramatic effect.
( oh yeah I was supposed to sign something?)
posted by rc3spencer at 12:56 PM on August 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
He also has managed to really perfect the dementia-where-am-I-again? pause for dramatic effect.
( oh yeah I was supposed to sign something?)
posted by rc3spencer at 12:56 PM on August 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
"seeks to affirm the right of Southerners "
you ain't no southerner, bub
posted by eustatic at 1:00 PM on August 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
you ain't no southerner, bub
posted by eustatic at 1:00 PM on August 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
@LarrySabato:
A favorite JFK quote: "The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.'
posted by chris24 at 1:01 PM on August 12, 2017 [54 favorites]
A favorite JFK quote: "The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.'
posted by chris24 at 1:01 PM on August 12, 2017 [54 favorites]
"The Nazis are in the open and proud." so people are working on identifying all the nazi marchers and posting the information on a website with high PageRank for all eternity, right? RIGHT?
Dropping dox on from the pictures to demonstrate how inexpensive the automated surveillance state is will get its own high page rank over time. Or a slot as a speaker at Defcon I bet.
posted by rough ashlar at 1:09 PM on August 12, 2017
Dropping dox on from the pictures to demonstrate how inexpensive the automated surveillance state is will get its own high page rank over time. Or a slot as a speaker at Defcon I bet.
posted by rough ashlar at 1:09 PM on August 12, 2017
With everything else going on today that's so awful I was able to have a laugh at the classic Trump moment where he pats himself on the back for being bipartisan while not actually being bipartisan. He won't acknowledge the democrats that helped pass the bill he's signing, then takes credit for acknowledging them.
Trump: I want to thank congressman Phil Roe, Senator Johnny Isakson -- they, two people have been working so hard -- Senator Dean Heller for their dedicated efforts to get this bill through congress. Was very very tough for reasons that I guess I understand but it was not easy. And I'll tell you that Phil and Johnny and Dean worked very very hard to get it through. And by the way I can also say others, [turns to VA Secretary Shulkin] and even some democrats. Want to say their names? Go ahead say their names.
Shulkin: [approaches mic] Senator Tester and Representative Walz were key in getting this done, Mr President.
Trump: See? I can do it.
posted by peeedro at 1:16 PM on August 12, 2017 [18 favorites]
Trump: I want to thank congressman Phil Roe, Senator Johnny Isakson -- they, two people have been working so hard -- Senator Dean Heller for their dedicated efforts to get this bill through congress. Was very very tough for reasons that I guess I understand but it was not easy. And I'll tell you that Phil and Johnny and Dean worked very very hard to get it through. And by the way I can also say others, [turns to VA Secretary Shulkin] and even some democrats. Want to say their names? Go ahead say their names.
Shulkin: [approaches mic] Senator Tester and Representative Walz were key in getting this done, Mr President.
Trump: See? I can do it.
posted by peeedro at 1:16 PM on August 12, 2017 [18 favorites]
"The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.'
In Dante, they endlessly chase after banners, pursued by clouds of stinging insects, iirc.
posted by thelonius at 1:20 PM on August 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
In Dante, they endlessly chase after banners, pursued by clouds of stinging insects, iirc.
posted by thelonius at 1:20 PM on August 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
Just a heads-up for anybody with HBO: Memory of Justice, a *long* and incredible documentary about Nuremburg and the nature of man's descent into violence and savagery (esp. the French in Algeria and the US, later, in Vietnam) is up on HBO docs. Also, if you've got Amazon Prime, you can get a free week of Amazon Channels which comes with HBO documentaries.
The NYRB just had a really excellent piece on the movie, maybe check that out if you're interested.
What with Charlottesville and, well, everything, might be worth a watch.
Edit: Here's a preview, too.
posted by TheProfessor at 1:50 PM on August 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
The NYRB just had a really excellent piece on the movie, maybe check that out if you're interested.
What with Charlottesville and, well, everything, might be worth a watch.
Edit: Here's a preview, too.
posted by TheProfessor at 1:50 PM on August 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
I wonder how much of the regalia the neo-confederates bring to their events was bought by Moscow.
posted by ocschwar at 2:02 PM on August 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by ocschwar at 2:02 PM on August 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Zero.
posted by The Whelk at 2:05 PM on August 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by The Whelk at 2:05 PM on August 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
First they came for those that wore Punisher tshirts, and I said nothing, for I do not shop at hot topic...
posted by ian1977 at 2:07 PM on August 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 2:07 PM on August 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
you mess up image-making if people are marching around....followed by tuba. Or followed by "The Worms Crawl In".
My wife has told me of a certain park in Omaha, circa 2000, that had fallen into disrepute. Drug dealing and correlated activities were common. You know the type. One day the problem was being discussed at a meeting of the local neighborhood association. A woman spoke up and said she'd go sit in that park and knit, as a deterrent. A few others thought that was a good idea, so they made a thing of it. They simply walked in...and took their park back. And it was so successful, more joined in. So long as they were there, nobody wanted to deal drugs under the watchful eye of knitting grannies.
It's a different situation, but it could certainly be adapted to planned protests.
posted by perspicio at 2:07 PM on August 12, 2017 [54 favorites]
My wife has told me of a certain park in Omaha, circa 2000, that had fallen into disrepute. Drug dealing and correlated activities were common. You know the type. One day the problem was being discussed at a meeting of the local neighborhood association. A woman spoke up and said she'd go sit in that park and knit, as a deterrent. A few others thought that was a good idea, so they made a thing of it. They simply walked in...and took their park back. And it was so successful, more joined in. So long as they were there, nobody wanted to deal drugs under the watchful eye of knitting grannies.
It's a different situation, but it could certainly be adapted to planned protests.
posted by perspicio at 2:07 PM on August 12, 2017 [54 favorites]
This is us. This is what America is. We don't get to let ourselves off the hook for this by blaming another country.
posted by zachlipton at 2:07 PM on August 12, 2017 [47 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 2:07 PM on August 12, 2017 [47 favorites]
Trump: See? I can do it
Yeah, he just demonstrated that he, personally, could not do it.
Besides, bragging that "yes I can NOT be an asshole to some of the people who helped get this done" is like a three-year-old bragging to mommy about how they made a big boom-boom in the potty, only the toddler has an excuse.
posted by darkstar at 2:28 PM on August 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
Yeah, he just demonstrated that he, personally, could not do it.
Besides, bragging that "yes I can NOT be an asshole to some of the people who helped get this done" is like a three-year-old bragging to mommy about how they made a big boom-boom in the potty, only the toddler has an excuse.
posted by darkstar at 2:28 PM on August 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
Mod note: A few deleted. Hi folks, I'm just coming to this now but let's take the Charlottesville stuff over to the thread about Charlottesville please.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 3:16 PM on August 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 3:16 PM on August 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
This is us. This is what America is. We don't get to let ourselves off the hook for this by blaming another country.
posted by zachlipton at 2:07 PM on August 12 [18 favorites +] [!]
Richard Spencer has been supported by the family cotton plantation in northern Louisiana. Which is no doubt subsidized by the US Farm Bill.
posted by eustatic at 3:20 PM on August 12, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 2:07 PM on August 12 [18 favorites +] [!]
Richard Spencer has been supported by the family cotton plantation in northern Louisiana. Which is no doubt subsidized by the US Farm Bill.
posted by eustatic at 3:20 PM on August 12, 2017 [16 favorites]
Axios, Jonathan Swan: Trump suspects Bannon of leaking, putting job in jeopardy
posted by zachlipton at 3:27 PM on August 12, 2017 [33 favorites]
President Trump has told close associates that he believes Steve Bannon is behind damaging leaks about White House colleagues, putting the chief strategist's job in fresh jeopardy, sources close to the president tell me.Of course, we've heard this song and dance entirely too many times before, but the anti-Bannon reports seem to have reached a new intensity over the last few days, with a couple of reports saying that Trump is upset over how much credit Joshua Green's "Devil's Bargain" gives Bannon for the election.
Trump has told associates he's fed up with what he sees as self-promotion by Bannon, who did not join the core team this week at the president's golf club in Bedminster, N.J.
Bannon's time with Trump has diminished since the new chief of staff, retired Marine Gen. John Kelly, took over and imposed discipline on the circus around the Oval Office.
Bannon declined to comment.
posted by zachlipton at 3:27 PM on August 12, 2017 [33 favorites]
President Trump has told close associates that he believes Steve Bannon is behind damaging leaks about White House colleagues
I think I pulled something with the severity of my involuntary feigned surprise reaction. Gosh, Donnie, could it really be Bannon? The guy holed up in his own little circle of cretins with no real job description and his own press office and a rolodex that's like 90% Nazi trolls who disseminate coordinated shit stirring? Man, if only literally everyone else had figured this out last fall during the transition, maybe somebody could have warned you.
Somewhere, Reince Priebus cries into his drink. Nobody feels sorry for him.
posted by jason_steakums at 4:16 PM on August 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
I think I pulled something with the severity of my involuntary feigned surprise reaction. Gosh, Donnie, could it really be Bannon? The guy holed up in his own little circle of cretins with no real job description and his own press office and a rolodex that's like 90% Nazi trolls who disseminate coordinated shit stirring? Man, if only literally everyone else had figured this out last fall during the transition, maybe somebody could have warned you.
Somewhere, Reince Priebus cries into his drink. Nobody feels sorry for him.
posted by jason_steakums at 4:16 PM on August 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
I feel sorry for his drink.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:27 PM on August 12, 2017 [38 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:27 PM on August 12, 2017 [38 favorites]
President Trump has told close associates that he believes Steve Bannon is behind damaging leaks about White House colleagues
Ya think? Him and Jared Kushner, too. Who does he think is leaking inside information from his inner circle, the valet?
I can't wait until Sessions is shat upon enough to stop giving fucks and present evidence to Trump of both of these guys' leaking. Better yet, he just starts prosecuting them -- as Trump has demanded -- without saying anything first. Protected from retaliation, ironically, by Mueller's obstruction of justice investigation.
posted by msalt at 4:30 PM on August 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Ya think? Him and Jared Kushner, too. Who does he think is leaking inside information from his inner circle, the valet?
I can't wait until Sessions is shat upon enough to stop giving fucks and present evidence to Trump of both of these guys' leaking. Better yet, he just starts prosecuting them -- as Trump has demanded -- without saying anything first. Protected from retaliation, ironically, by Mueller's obstruction of justice investigation.
posted by msalt at 4:30 PM on August 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
President Trump has told close associates that he believes Steve Bannon is behind damaging leaks about White House colleagues, putting the chief strategist's job in fresh jeopardy, sources close to the president tell me.
Bannon is of course the leak for this very information.
posted by srboisvert at 4:38 PM on August 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Bannon is of course the leak for this very information.
posted by srboisvert at 4:38 PM on August 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Scaramucci euphemism level 10,000
posted by DoctorFedora at 4:59 PM on August 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by DoctorFedora at 4:59 PM on August 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
Did someone get thrown under the ouroborus?
posted by thelonius at 5:00 PM on August 12, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 5:00 PM on August 12, 2017 [21 favorites]
"if I didn't know any better I'd think that angry garbage bag full of gin and a skeleton we hired to weaponize the press might be leaking damaging info to reporters for his own gain..."
posted by jason_steakums at 5:06 PM on August 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 5:06 PM on August 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
John Marshall points out the obvious:
Over the course of the afternoon, a number of Republicans have condemned the marchers. Some actually condemned Trump for failing to do so. Late this afternoon, former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee tweeted a generic but clear condemnation of the white supremacist protestors. It made me think, “Even Mike Huckabee, one of the awfullest people in public life, today can manage this.”posted by peeedro at 5:15 PM on August 12, 2017 [100 favorites]
But that reminded me of the fact that the white supremacists and nazis have actually long been something of a gift to politicians who are if not racists themselves then entirely indifferent to racism as a political force in American society. By making themselves the public face of ‘racism’, these morons create an easy enemy to pivot off of. Those politicians get to pay lip service to the notional anti-racist public consensus by denouncing racism in its most avowed and buffoonish form. As I said, in political terms, it’s less an obligation than a gift, an out. After all, who can’t denounce jerks running around with swastikas on their arms or chanting “white power”?
Who can’t? Well, Donald Trump can’t.
NYT: Police and Protesters Mobilize for Trump’s Return to His Own Home
The group is involved in the planning of two protests, one focused on health care and set for Sunday evening outside Trump Tower and an antiwar march on Monday that will begin at the New York Public Library at Bryant Park and end at Trump International Hotel.posted by zachlipton at 5:46 PM on August 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
Those are just a few of the demonstrations that have begun to take shape around New York since Mr. Trump’s plans were announced this week. Also planned are a gathering for “peace and sanity” at Grand Army Plaza in Brooklyn on Sunday morning, and the inflation of a giant, Trump-shaped rat by a Chelsea art gallery. The rat is to be positioned at a not-yet-disclosed location on Monday.
...
The Police Department has estimated that the cost of protecting Mr. Trump when he is in New York is around $308,000 per day. His wife, Melania, and his son Barron continued to live in Trump Tower during the school year, and the cost to protect their home was between $127,000 to $146,000 a day, according to the police.
The police urged people to avoid the area around Trump Tower during Mr. Trump’s visit, when numerous streets will be closed around one of the city’s busiest thoroughfares. Starting at midnight on Sunday, 58th and 55th Streets will be shut to traffic from Madison Avenue to Sixth Avenue, and there will be restricted access for certain vehicles on 56th Street between Fifth and Sixth Avenues, according to the police. Fifth Avenue will remain open to southbound traffic, with some restrictions at certain points during the president’s stay. Along Fifth and Madison Avenues, the police will perform random inspections at vehicle checkpoints.
There's something different about this terrorist attack that makes the President reluctant to describe it as a terrorist attack, but I can't quite put mein finger on it... 🤔
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:56 PM on August 12, 2017 [42 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:56 PM on August 12, 2017 [42 favorites]
I have to wonder if today's events could bring Senators on both sides of the aisle together and revive Bowles-Simpson. [parody account]
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:57 PM on August 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:57 PM on August 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Thing is, Trump has always relished the idea of having nuclear weapons at his disposal, and now he's got them.
Feel free to delete if this is too deraily, but when I read this I suddenly flashed back several years ago to a gripping game of Battlestar Galactica. For those unfamiliar with the game, it traffics in suspicion and tension as one or possibly two of the players will be Cylons working to defeat the humans while the humans are trying to avoid this defeat and simultaneously trying to work out who among them is the enemy. As well, the Galactica has a very limited supply of nuclear weapons, good for last-ditch efforts to defend against waves of attackers.
In this particular game, Admiral Adama had wound up in the brig due to the maneuvering by the Cylons. While in the brig, a character can do very little, naturally. During Adams's stint in the brig, the two Cylons came to light, and all our best efforts to get Adama out were vetoed by the player playing Tigh because in his words, "No, I have the nukes! I am in command!" He was human; he knew Adama was human; he knew without Adama's contributions, the humans were fighting an uphill battle against the Cylons, but to the very end he fought it. And I mean to the very end: the humans were defeated and the entire human race was wiped out, all because one guy wanted to control the nukes.
Annoying when it happens in a board game; terrifying when it happens IRL.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:19 PM on August 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
Feel free to delete if this is too deraily, but when I read this I suddenly flashed back several years ago to a gripping game of Battlestar Galactica. For those unfamiliar with the game, it traffics in suspicion and tension as one or possibly two of the players will be Cylons working to defeat the humans while the humans are trying to avoid this defeat and simultaneously trying to work out who among them is the enemy. As well, the Galactica has a very limited supply of nuclear weapons, good for last-ditch efforts to defend against waves of attackers.
In this particular game, Admiral Adama had wound up in the brig due to the maneuvering by the Cylons. While in the brig, a character can do very little, naturally. During Adams's stint in the brig, the two Cylons came to light, and all our best efforts to get Adama out were vetoed by the player playing Tigh because in his words, "No, I have the nukes! I am in command!" He was human; he knew Adama was human; he knew without Adama's contributions, the humans were fighting an uphill battle against the Cylons, but to the very end he fought it. And I mean to the very end: the humans were defeated and the entire human race was wiped out, all because one guy wanted to control the nukes.
Annoying when it happens in a board game; terrifying when it happens IRL.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:19 PM on August 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
Yes, but Donald Trump was always known to be a Cylon... '70s version.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:26 PM on August 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:26 PM on August 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Especially terrifying when the guy in real life is a fucking asshole with no loyalty to anyone but himself and also dementia.
hey hey hey... be fair.
he's loyal to putin
posted by entropicamericana at 6:28 PM on August 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
hey hey hey... be fair.
he's loyal to putin
posted by entropicamericana at 6:28 PM on August 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Yeah but on the actual series, wasn't Tigh a Cylon?
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:28 PM on August 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:28 PM on August 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
Since I'm bringing back old-timey insults for treasonous dirt bags, here's one just for someone of wealth hailing from NYC.
Donald Trump is a fucking copperhead. After today, there is no doubt. He conspiring with the fucking Confederates against our Nation.
posted by Slap*Happy at 6:30 PM on August 12, 2017 [24 favorites]
Donald Trump is a fucking copperhead. After today, there is no doubt. He conspiring with the fucking Confederates against our Nation.
posted by Slap*Happy at 6:30 PM on August 12, 2017 [24 favorites]
@maggieserota
Everything happening now is a dumber version of an event preceding it:posted by ZeusHumms at 6:31 PM on August 12, 2017 [90 favorites]
Stupid Watergate
Dumb Cuban Missile Crisis
Dipshit Third Reich
Trump: "We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence, on many sides. On many sides."
All Lives Batter
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:42 PM on August 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
All Lives Batter
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:42 PM on August 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Here's a comment I posted in the thread about Charlottesville, but I think has relevance here.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 7:30 PM on August 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
There need to be many, many pointed questions for elected Republicans like Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, Marco Rubio, Jeff Flake, and anyone who supported Donald the White Nationalist last year. I want to know whether they think the institutional Republican party bear any responsibility for attracting shitflies like David Duke and Richard Spencer to their banner. I want to know what it was in their platform that made those Neo-Nazi copraphages feel so at home in the Republican party. If they don't understand the role that they, the so-called leaders of the Republican party, played in the growth of domestic, radical, white supremacist action within the United States, then their condemnations aren't really worth much more than used toilet paper.I think trying to play both sides of the 'white nationalist radical (y/n)?' game could be made to seriously backfire on the Republicans in power. A substantial portion of their base are the Disturbed Deplorables, so condemning them may be alienating, especially if The Jackass really gets on their case about it. Similarly, anyone who is opposed to Neo-Nazis and has any sense of history understands how these invertebrates have enabled their radical base for years. Let's make the stench of Duke, Trump, and Spencer stick to the likes of Ryan, McConnell, Rubio, et al. until their are drummed out of the government.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 7:30 PM on August 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
I've been a state of exhausted heartache at the shitstream of the last couple of days (...following a pretty terrible year-or-so), but I was delighted and re-energized by reading a transcript of Elizabeth Warren's speech at Netroots Nation today. (Link is to Vox. Not a huge fan of author Jeff Stein's framing.)
posted by Anoplura at 8:19 PM on August 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by Anoplura at 8:19 PM on August 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
Important HuffPost article from a couple of days ago: Trump's agencies are learning to
ignore their boss
Brinkley said Trump’s presidency has close parallels with the Nixon era. Now, like then, career public servants and military leaders appear to be siding with the law and the Constitution against Trump’s impulses.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:34 PM on August 12, 2017 [18 favorites]
ignore their boss
Brinkley said Trump’s presidency has close parallels with the Nixon era. Now, like then, career public servants and military leaders appear to be siding with the law and the Constitution against Trump’s impulses.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:34 PM on August 12, 2017 [18 favorites]
Watching the news today... I am just done, 100% DONE, with anyone who still calls themself a Republican. I realize that I need to be professional and work with some in a professional capacity, but I want mutual defriending and excision from personal lives beyond that. What happened today was disgusting and there is a complete moral vacuum beyond some tepid tweets from the party that has brought us to this.
posted by TwoStride at 9:07 PM on August 12, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by TwoStride at 9:07 PM on August 12, 2017 [26 favorites]
So far, the reports about Trump looking to ditch Priebus turned out to be right, and reports about very intense arguments between Trump and Sessions (back before public attacks) were almost certainly right; so the news about Bannon being on the outs seems very plausible to me. Bannon is backed by Mercer, who reportedly convinced him to stay last time around.
..I've never seen a machine so oiled..
posted by rainy at 9:35 PM on August 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
..I've never seen a machine so oiled..
posted by rainy at 9:35 PM on August 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
A well oily machination.
posted by biogeo at 9:53 PM on August 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by biogeo at 9:53 PM on August 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think any leaks or rumors from within the White House need to be heavily discounted. We know already that the President himself leaks inside gossip.
posted by notyou at 10:05 PM on August 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by notyou at 10:05 PM on August 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
What did he leak before?
posted by rainy at 10:44 PM on August 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by rainy at 10:44 PM on August 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Pee
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 11:04 PM on August 12, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 11:04 PM on August 12, 2017 [24 favorites]
"Failing USA can't handle greatness. Sad! Big changes coming for private citizens who still want to #MAGA! Stay tuned for more after resignat. covfefe"
posted by growabrain at 11:46 PM on August 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by growabrain at 11:46 PM on August 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
*individual meme-posters on social media, the DNC, really anyone with any sense at this point
Good luck with the DNC, they are basically the This is Fine dog on this.
posted by Artw at 12:52 AM on August 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
Good luck with the DNC, they are basically the This is Fine dog on this.
posted by Artw at 12:52 AM on August 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
Does anyone have a link to the protest march starting at Bryant Park on Monday or any more information? I was planning to be there around midday with my young nephew, do I need to make alternate plans?
posted by TWinbrook8 at 5:02 AM on August 13, 2017
posted by TWinbrook8 at 5:02 AM on August 13, 2017
Idk. Keith Ellison has been tweeting up a storm this am, linking to Intercept articles about right wing terrorism, a video the us military made to help citizens recognize and respond to facism in 1947, and retweeting the #ImpeachTrump, #FireBannon, #FireGorka, and #FireMiller stuff that Painter started yesterday. Doesn't seem thisisfine.jpg to me.
posted by xyzzy at 5:04 AM on August 13, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 5:04 AM on August 13, 2017 [17 favorites]
Less than 24 hours ago, I wrote, WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO END THIS SHITSTORM?? I just...I mean...I can't...WTF is going to happen to everyone?? This is not sustainable.
Then Charlottesville happened and our MOTHERFUCKING PRESIDENT'S REACTIONS ARE:
"We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence, on many sides. On many sides. It's been going on for a long time in our country. Not Donald Trump, not Barack Obama. This has been going on for a long, long time..."
REMEMBER, IT'S NOT ABOUT HIM. HE DIDN'T DO THIS. Even an ardent Trump supporter is going to question many sides. What the hell could he mean by many sides? Nazis went out and attacked people--I mean, that's the only thing to condemn right now. But then Trump talked about kids should be able to go outside and play (WTF?!) and wrapped up his remarks with:
"We have record -- just absolute record employment. We have unemployment, the lowest it's been in almost 17 years. We have companies pouring into our country. Foxconn and car companies, and so many others, they're coming back to our country. We're renegotiating trade deals to make them great for our country and great for the American worker. We have so many incredible things happening in our country. So when I watch Charlottesville, to me it's very, very sad."
I'm actually scared to see what he does today to shift the news and it makes me more and more ready to pack my bags and go to Canada and I wish I was kidding but I'm not anymore.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 5:07 AM on August 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
Then Charlottesville happened and our MOTHERFUCKING PRESIDENT'S REACTIONS ARE:
"We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence, on many sides. On many sides. It's been going on for a long time in our country. Not Donald Trump, not Barack Obama. This has been going on for a long, long time..."
REMEMBER, IT'S NOT ABOUT HIM. HE DIDN'T DO THIS. Even an ardent Trump supporter is going to question many sides. What the hell could he mean by many sides? Nazis went out and attacked people--I mean, that's the only thing to condemn right now. But then Trump talked about kids should be able to go outside and play (WTF?!) and wrapped up his remarks with:
"We have record -- just absolute record employment. We have unemployment, the lowest it's been in almost 17 years. We have companies pouring into our country. Foxconn and car companies, and so many others, they're coming back to our country. We're renegotiating trade deals to make them great for our country and great for the American worker. We have so many incredible things happening in our country. So when I watch Charlottesville, to me it's very, very sad."
I'm actually scared to see what he does today to shift the news and it makes me more and more ready to pack my bags and go to Canada and I wish I was kidding but I'm not anymore.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 5:07 AM on August 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
In case anyone was wondering, he was LYING about the unemployment rate:
In June 2017, the national unemployment rate for Americans 16 and over was 4.4%, according to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. This number is among the lowest since 2007, but not since 17 years ago. In July 2000, the unemployment rate was 4%, according to the BLS.
But where did Potus get this erroneous information? Breitbart News.
He was also lying about companies coming back to the USA because of him. That's not actually happening.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 5:12 AM on August 13, 2017 [33 favorites]
In June 2017, the national unemployment rate for Americans 16 and over was 4.4%, according to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. This number is among the lowest since 2007, but not since 17 years ago. In July 2000, the unemployment rate was 4%, according to the BLS.
But where did Potus get this erroneous information? Breitbart News.
He was also lying about companies coming back to the USA because of him. That's not actually happening.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 5:12 AM on August 13, 2017 [33 favorites]
yes I said yes I will Yes: I'm actually scared to see what he does today to shift the news and it makes me more and more ready to pack my bags and go to Canada and I wish I was kidding but I'm not anymore.
We're setting up refugee camps for refugee claimants coming in from the U.S. You can't come in at an official border crossing, though. You have to cross at a place like Roxham Road in Quebec.
posted by clawsoon at 5:16 AM on August 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
We're setting up refugee camps for refugee claimants coming in from the U.S. You can't come in at an official border crossing, though. You have to cross at a place like Roxham Road in Quebec.
posted by clawsoon at 5:16 AM on August 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Many thanks to Anoplura for posting the link to Elizabeth Warren's speech at Netroots nation.
The only thing I would change about that fabulous speech, is replacing this:
We’re going to keep Planned Parenthood open, and we’re going to make sure women have access to safe, legal abortions.
with this:
We’re going to keep Planned Parenthood open, and we’re going to make sure women are never again forced to give birth if they choose not to.
posted by yoga at 5:52 AM on August 13, 2017 [20 favorites]
The only thing I would change about that fabulous speech, is replacing this:
We’re going to keep Planned Parenthood open, and we’re going to make sure women have access to safe, legal abortions.
with this:
We’re going to keep Planned Parenthood open, and we’re going to make sure women are never again forced to give birth if they choose not to.
posted by yoga at 5:52 AM on August 13, 2017 [20 favorites]
Took to google and found this helpful link:Take Action NYC re protests' times and locations.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 5:53 AM on August 13, 2017
posted by TWinbrook8 at 5:53 AM on August 13, 2017
Sublimity: " But I also keep thinking: Trump lobbed the trans ban in the military on the very same day the Muller's team sprung a surprise raid on Manafort. "
I wouldn't read to much into the timing. Trump could have picked practically any day for his trans ban and there would probably be a 50/50 chance _something_ significantly bad for him was also happening. Practically a certainty if you include the day before and after.
posted by Mitheral at 6:25 AM on August 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
I wouldn't read to much into the timing. Trump could have picked practically any day for his trans ban and there would probably be a 50/50 chance _something_ significantly bad for him was also happening. Practically a certainty if you include the day before and after.
posted by Mitheral at 6:25 AM on August 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
It is fun watching the ACLU getting dragged thanks to the Virginia chapter bravely standing up for the rights of people who want to take those rights away from others. It's particularly fun watching people defend the ACLU as defending the Constitution, not (just) Nazis.
Yeah, it's a document that explicitly condones and enables violence, and proclaims liberty and justice for all despite its authors owning slaves who apparently did not see that contradiction. When civil liberties and the Constitution differ, as it often does, the ACLU is perfectly willing to throw civil liberty away.
posted by Merus at 6:45 AM on August 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yeah, it's a document that explicitly condones and enables violence, and proclaims liberty and justice for all despite its authors owning slaves who apparently did not see that contradiction. When civil liberties and the Constitution differ, as it often does, the ACLU is perfectly willing to throw civil liberty away.
posted by Merus at 6:45 AM on August 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
White House plotters working to 'eject' Donald Trump, says former communications chief Anthony Scaramucci
Currently the entirety of the article is:
posted by Buntix at 6:46 AM on August 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Currently the entirety of the article is:
Donald Trump's former communications director Anthony Scaramucci, who the President fired last month, has said people inside the White House are working to "eject" Mr Trump, according to BBC.Take with as much salt as you can safely spare...
More to follow...
posted by Buntix at 6:46 AM on August 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Anthony who?
posted by Room 641-A at 7:01 AM on August 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 7:01 AM on August 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
What did he leak before?
He talks to members of the press regularly and occasionally those comments make it into the news, sourced to anonymous "White House official" or "senior White House official". Here's an unmasking of one such time (Independent): Donald Trump appears to be his own anonymous source after attacking media for bad practice
posted by notyou at 7:09 AM on August 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
He talks to members of the press regularly and occasionally those comments make it into the news, sourced to anonymous "White House official" or "senior White House official". Here's an unmasking of one such time (Independent): Donald Trump appears to be his own anonymous source after attacking media for bad practice
posted by notyou at 7:09 AM on August 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
The leaking is nothing new:
Donald Trump masqueraded as publicist to brag about himself
posted by Room 641-A at 7:28 AM on August 13, 2017 [25 favorites]
Donald Trump masqueraded as publicist to brag about himself
The voice is instantly familiar; the tone, confident, even cocky; the cadence, distinctly Trumpian. The man on the phone vigorously defending Donald Trump says he’s a media spokesman named John Miller, but then he says, “I’m sort of new here,” and “I’m somebody that he knows and I think somebody that he trusts and likes” and even “I’m going to do this a little, part time, and then, yeah, go on with my life.”Sad, sad, little man.
A recording obtained by The Washington Post captures what New York reporters and editors who covered Trump’s early career experienced in the 1970s, ’80s and ’90s: calls from Trump’s Manhattan office that resulted in conversations with “John Miller” or “John Barron” — public-relations men who sound precisely like Trump himself — who indeed are Trump, masquerading as an unusually helpful and boastful advocate for himself, according to the journalists and several of Trump’s top aides.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:28 AM on August 13, 2017 [25 favorites]
From back when the U.S. government was against Nazis.
@OmanReagan
1947 anti-fascist video made by US military to teach citizens how to avoid falling for people like Trump is relevant again.
VIDEO
posted by chris24 at 8:01 AM on August 13, 2017 [29 favorites]
@OmanReagan
1947 anti-fascist video made by US military to teach citizens how to avoid falling for people like Trump is relevant again.
VIDEO
posted by chris24 at 8:01 AM on August 13, 2017 [29 favorites]
@OmanReagan
1947 anti-fascist video made by US military to teach citizens how to avoid falling for people like Trump is relevant again.
The scary thing is that people refuse to acknowledge their prejudice even when it's pointed out so it makes it more difficult for them to self-recognize them being used like this. Like when dipshit Peter Cvjetanovic says "I care for all people".
posted by Talez at 8:11 AM on August 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
1947 anti-fascist video made by US military to teach citizens how to avoid falling for people like Trump is relevant again.
The scary thing is that people refuse to acknowledge their prejudice even when it's pointed out so it makes it more difficult for them to self-recognize them being used like this. Like when dipshit Peter Cvjetanovic says "I care for all people".
posted by Talez at 8:11 AM on August 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
At least one person at the rally worked at Top Dog Hot Dogs, a hot dog stand in Berkeley with a completely insane white supremacist blog on their web site. To be fair, they fired him when the pictures started circulating. But still... white supremacist hot dog stand in Berkeley....
posted by miyabo at 8:25 AM on August 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by miyabo at 8:25 AM on August 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
Sad, sad, little man.
Even this week I said to a friend I might have a fuckload of insecurities, but if we listed all of Donnies insecurities behind the braggadocio we could fill at least two volumes. He's a needy old fuck who deep down knows the only reason he's not watching Fox in his sweaty underwear on a run-down NYC flat is all the money daddy left to him, and needs every sycophant to tell him how great he is and make up as much bullshit on his prowess and how everyone respects him, because once that illusion is gone, there's nothing left.
He had hoped being elected would make him "presidential" and cement that illusion, but he though this would be the usual swindle he could pull with minimal work. Instead of being the big man with the big recognition he always wanted to be, he's being exposed as a big phony, and what everyone should be concerned is what he'll do to keep the mask from falling off.
posted by lmfsilva at 8:32 AM on August 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
Even this week I said to a friend I might have a fuckload of insecurities, but if we listed all of Donnies insecurities behind the braggadocio we could fill at least two volumes. He's a needy old fuck who deep down knows the only reason he's not watching Fox in his sweaty underwear on a run-down NYC flat is all the money daddy left to him, and needs every sycophant to tell him how great he is and make up as much bullshit on his prowess and how everyone respects him, because once that illusion is gone, there's nothing left.
He had hoped being elected would make him "presidential" and cement that illusion, but he though this would be the usual swindle he could pull with minimal work. Instead of being the big man with the big recognition he always wanted to be, he's being exposed as a big phony, and what everyone should be concerned is what he'll do to keep the mask from falling off.
posted by lmfsilva at 8:32 AM on August 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
White House doubles down on Trump’s Charlottesville comments, ignores calls to directly confront white supremacy
(Jenna Johnson and Karoun Demirjian, WaPo)
posted by Barack Spinoza at 8:38 AM on August 13, 2017 [15 favorites]
(Jenna Johnson and Karoun Demirjian, WaPo)
posted by Barack Spinoza at 8:38 AM on August 13, 2017 [15 favorites]
things 2017 has ruined for me:
the federal government
top dog
posted by murphy slaw at 8:43 AM on August 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
the federal government
top dog
posted by murphy slaw at 8:43 AM on August 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
"Trump comments were good, He didn't attack us. When asked to condemn, he just walked out of the room. Really, really good. God bless him."
posted by flabdablet at 8:44 AM on August 13, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 8:44 AM on August 13, 2017 [23 favorites]
When I see Trump and his bluster I think of "Brush With Greatness," the episode of The Simpsons where Marge starts painting again. When she paints Mr. Burns, the Trump of Springfield, she shocks everyone by painting the Burns that she sees. Sad!
posted by Room 641-A at 8:47 AM on August 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 8:47 AM on August 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
White House doubles down on Trump’s Charlottesville comments, ignores calls to directly confront white supremacy
The shitty statement that didn't do anything mentioned in this link? Well...
@JessicaHuseman
The WH just put out a statement saying "of course" Trump condemns white supremacists and "nephew-Nazi" groups (?). It is unsigned.
posted by chris24 at 9:01 AM on August 13, 2017 [13 favorites]
The shitty statement that didn't do anything mentioned in this link? Well...
@JessicaHuseman
The WH just put out a statement saying "of course" Trump condemns white supremacists and "nephew-Nazi" groups (?). It is unsigned.
posted by chris24 at 9:01 AM on August 13, 2017 [13 favorites]
Is there a link to the original statement?
posted by Room 641-A at 9:09 AM on August 13, 2017
posted by Room 641-A at 9:09 AM on August 13, 2017
Tom Bossert (DHS) is on Tapper right now insisting on "both sides" and refusing to even say "neo-nazi" or "white supremacist" or to condemn or assign any blame to racism/white nationalism. This is chilling.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:20 AM on August 13, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:20 AM on August 13, 2017 [16 favorites]
Is there a link to the original statement?
Not that I can find besides the CNN screenshot, but here Ali Vitale says she deleted her earlier tweet that contained the typo.
@alivitali
Deleted last tweet bc of corrected version sent by pool. New WH statement on #Charlottesville says POTUS condemns white supremacists, KKK.
---
Good to know the WH is banging out statements on a smartphone and sending them out unvetted.
posted by chris24 at 9:23 AM on August 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
Not that I can find besides the CNN screenshot, but here Ali Vitale says she deleted her earlier tweet that contained the typo.
@alivitali
Deleted last tweet bc of corrected version sent by pool. New WH statement on #Charlottesville says POTUS condemns white supremacists, KKK.
---
Good to know the WH is banging out statements on a smartphone and sending them out unvetted.
posted by chris24 at 9:23 AM on August 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
New WH statement on #Charlottesville says POTUS condemns white supremacists, KKK.
That's not what it says. It says he condemns "all forms of violence" which "of course includes" [but is not limited to] fucking Nazis "and other extremist groups" -- like for instance, anti-racist counterprotestors.
It's actually even worse than the shit Trump said yesterday.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:28 AM on August 13, 2017 [28 favorites]
That's not what it says. It says he condemns "all forms of violence" which "of course includes" [but is not limited to] fucking Nazis "and other extremist groups" -- like for instance, anti-racist counterprotestors.
It's actually even worse than the shit Trump said yesterday.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:28 AM on August 13, 2017 [28 favorites]
Berkeley is like a weird magnet for Nazi types trying to make a point about "free speech". I'd be suprised if it wasn't full to the gills with idiots who washed up their trying to make the news, failed and then just hung around being a nuisance.
posted by Artw at 9:29 AM on August 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:29 AM on August 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
Esme Cribb/TPM Livewire: Adviser [homeland security adviser Tom Bossert]: Trump Didn’t Want To ‘Dignify’ White Supremacy By Condemning It
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:36 AM on August 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:36 AM on August 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
I think Orwell would recognize the attempt to equivocate dignify and condemn.
posted by rc3spencer at 9:40 AM on August 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by rc3spencer at 9:40 AM on August 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
but if we listed all of Donnies insecurities behind the braggadocio we could fill at least two volumes
That's really *not* how NPD works. If that diagnosis is correct, Trump doesn't personally experience insecurity at all. That's the whole nature of the disorder. He can't ever consciously experience or process emotions related to feelings of self doubt and insecurity, he projects them onto everyone else and can't understand he's the problem. Don't think he feels any of that as insecurity consciously for a minute or that tactics designed to make him feel insecure or doubt himself will work because they won't. They'll just push him further into feeling righteous and unfairly under attack, but not in a way that makes him behave less confident or self conflicted. The opposite. He'll behave more confidently and more certainly the more you'd expect a normal person in the same situation to start choking and tripping themselves up. He'll trip himself up in different ways, but not the ways we'd normally associate with a loss of confidence or bargain basement insecurity.
posted by saulgoodman at 9:42 AM on August 13, 2017 [16 favorites]
That's really *not* how NPD works. If that diagnosis is correct, Trump doesn't personally experience insecurity at all. That's the whole nature of the disorder. He can't ever consciously experience or process emotions related to feelings of self doubt and insecurity, he projects them onto everyone else and can't understand he's the problem. Don't think he feels any of that as insecurity consciously for a minute or that tactics designed to make him feel insecure or doubt himself will work because they won't. They'll just push him further into feeling righteous and unfairly under attack, but not in a way that makes him behave less confident or self conflicted. The opposite. He'll behave more confidently and more certainly the more you'd expect a normal person in the same situation to start choking and tripping themselves up. He'll trip himself up in different ways, but not the ways we'd normally associate with a loss of confidence or bargain basement insecurity.
posted by saulgoodman at 9:42 AM on August 13, 2017 [16 favorites]
That's not what it says.
Sorry, I just posted the tweet text to answer Room-641's question about there definitely being a prior version with the nephew-Nazi mistake. The tweet has the full statement attached as an image. The tweet text was just her rough summary of what she attached.
posted by chris24 at 9:44 AM on August 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Sorry, I just posted the tweet text to answer Room-641's question about there definitely being a prior version with the nephew-Nazi mistake. The tweet has the full statement attached as an image. The tweet text was just her rough summary of what she attached.
posted by chris24 at 9:44 AM on August 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Adviser [homeland security adviser Tom Bossert]: Trump Didn’t Want To ‘Dignify’ White Supremacy By Condemning It
But he dignifies Muslim extremist terrorism every single chance he can get. (And when he can't, he makes something up.)
posted by greermahoney at 10:11 AM on August 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
But he dignifies Muslim extremist terrorism every single chance he can get. (And when he can't, he makes something up.)
posted by greermahoney at 10:11 AM on August 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
MSNBC anchor to Howard Dean: Do you think the President is racist, or is he just pandering to the racists who voted for him because he's afraid to lose their support?
Dean: That IS racist.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:13 AM on August 13, 2017 [140 favorites]
Dean: That IS racist.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:13 AM on August 13, 2017 [140 favorites]
Sorry, I just posted the tweet text to answer Room-641's question about there definitely being a prior version with the nephew-Nazi mistake. The tweet has the full statement attached as an image. The tweet text was just her rough summary of what she attached.
Sorry also. I wasn't taking issue with your quoting of the summary tweet. I was taking issue with the tweet summary that distorted the meaning of the original text to make it seem like it was directly condemning white supremacy when it was overtly weaseling out of doing that.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:19 AM on August 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Sorry also. I wasn't taking issue with your quoting of the summary tweet. I was taking issue with the tweet summary that distorted the meaning of the original text to make it seem like it was directly condemning white supremacy when it was overtly weaseling out of doing that.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:19 AM on August 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
“I’m Not The Angry Racist They See In That Photo”
‘You’re making me out like some kind of monster at a racist rally!” we sometimes hear people say. Well, you were just photographed frothing from the mouth and chanting white power and nazi slogans at a racist rally. So I’m going to figure that’s probably you.posted by kirkaracha at 10:38 AM on August 13, 2017 [33 favorites]
Trump Didn’t Want To ‘Dignify’ White Supremacy By Condemning It
Really? Does he want to dignify all the other stuff he's constantly condemning by name?
posted by Rykey at 10:45 AM on August 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Really? Does he want to dignify all the other stuff he's constantly condemning by name?
posted by Rykey at 10:45 AM on August 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
I've been worried about the danger of misidentifying people as Nazis since the outing started online. The effects spread fast, and the corrections never get as much attention as the original mistake -- which tends to live on over the Internet. I haven't seen the people making the effort talk about their methods; it'd be a little different for me if it was WaPo or some other news outlet.
So far I'm pretty pleased to have seen the identifications bear out. I hope it continues. I worry for people who might be wrongly tarred because of a facial resemblance, but I'm 100% on board with bringing public wrath down on any of these assholes who actually participated in those rallies. Fuck those guys.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:45 AM on August 13, 2017 [15 favorites]
So far I'm pretty pleased to have seen the identifications bear out. I hope it continues. I worry for people who might be wrongly tarred because of a facial resemblance, but I'm 100% on board with bringing public wrath down on any of these assholes who actually participated in those rallies. Fuck those guys.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:45 AM on August 13, 2017 [15 favorites]
Christ, I'm so relieved to hear Dean say that pandering to racists IS racism.
posted by xyzzy at 11:18 AM on August 13, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 11:18 AM on August 13, 2017 [24 favorites]
occasional reminder that dean's campaign was torpedoed because he kind of had a funny yell once and people said he was unhinged
posted by entropicamericana at 11:24 AM on August 13, 2017 [55 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 11:24 AM on August 13, 2017 [55 favorites]
Hard to remember the America where a "Yee-argh!" could derail a campaign.
posted by octothorpe at 11:34 AM on August 13, 2017 [47 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 11:34 AM on August 13, 2017 [47 favorites]
Hard to remember the America where a "Yee-argh!" could derail a campaign.
I think that America only applied to the Democrats and still exists: a Yee-argh wouldn't have derailed W in 2004 and we basically just went through it again with But Her Yee-argh.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:40 AM on August 13, 2017 [30 favorites]
I think that America only applied to the Democrats and still exists: a Yee-argh wouldn't have derailed W in 2004 and we basically just went through it again with But Her Yee-argh.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:40 AM on August 13, 2017 [30 favorites]
I am all about naming and shaming people who are Nazis, Confederates, and otherwise show up in public participating in hate rallies, but I'm really uncomfortably with the mirroring of the right-wing "this person has a foreign-sounding name so they're not Amurican" ideology. I know it's probably trying to call attention to the right's hypocrisy and all, but it skirts a little too close to hipster racism for me. There are plenty of reasons to hate this college kid without going after his name and using that as a basis for speculation of his status.
posted by TwoStride at 11:43 AM on August 13, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by TwoStride at 11:43 AM on August 13, 2017 [27 favorites]
Trump Joins the Neo-Confederates (Ed Kilgore, NYMag)
posted by Barack Spinoza at 11:45 AM on August 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Barack Spinoza at 11:45 AM on August 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
A bit more on Scaramucci's interview on This Week this morning: Scaramucci: Bannon's 'toleration' of white nationalism is 'inexcusable'
posted by zachlipton at 11:58 AM on August 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
“I’ve never sat down with Steve Bannon and said, ‘Hey are you a white nationalist or a white supremacist?’ But I think the toleration of it by Steve Bannon is inexcusable,” Scaramucci said.He also thinks Lizza didn't misquote him, but was "mischaracterizing" him. Whatever, man.
...
Speaking with ABC News Chief Anchor George Stephanopoulos on "This Week" this morning, Scaramucci criticized the influence of the website Breitbart and Steve Bannon, who was the executive chairman of Breitbart before joining the Trump campaign and later the administration, saying that there's "this sort of 'Bannon-bart' influence" in the White House that he thinks "is a snag on the president."
When asked by Stephanopoulos if that influence stemmed from Bannon, Scaramucci said, "I think the president knows what he's going to do with Steve Bannon."
"Let's leave it up to the president. It's his decision, but at the end of the day, the president has a very good idea of who the leakers are inside the White House. The president has a very good idea of the people who are undermining his agenda that are serving their own interests," Scaramucci added.
Asked if that included Bannon, Scaramucci said "well yeah," before saying, "I would prefer to let the president make the decisions the president needs to make."
...
“If the president really wants to execute the legislative agenda that I think is so promising for the American people, the lower middle-class people and the middle-class people, then he has to move away from that 'Bannon-bart' nonsense,” he said.
“That whole thing is nonsensical. It’s not serving the president’s interests. He's got to move more into the mainstream. He's got to be more into where the moderates are and the independents … that love the president, so if he does that he'll have a very successful legislative agenda,” he said.
posted by zachlipton at 11:58 AM on August 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
A bit more on Scaramucci's interview on This Week this morning: Scaramucci: Bannon's 'toleration' of white nationalism is 'inexcusable'
I really am looking forward to the point where the (far-too) White House goes full-on Lord of the Flies/Battle Royale and they're all hilariously tripping over petards in their eagerness to betray their erstwhile brethren.
posted by Buntix at 12:08 PM on August 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
I really am looking forward to the point where the (far-too) White House goes full-on Lord of the Flies/Battle Royale and they're all hilariously tripping over petards in their eagerness to betray their erstwhile brethren.
posted by Buntix at 12:08 PM on August 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
I love how The Mooch is shitcanned from his job as WH comms director and yet somehow still gets invited by the media onto national news shows as a spokesperson for the Trump administration. The sooner he's consigned to the dustheap of irrelevant forgotten nobodies, the better.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:15 PM on August 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:15 PM on August 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
Ted Lieu endorses John Chaing for Governor.
posted by Room 641-A at 12:15 PM on August 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Room 641-A at 12:15 PM on August 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
I think Orwell would recognize the attempt to equivocate dignify and condemn.
Ole George went to fight actual fascists with physical force. He also pointed out how the word years ago was more of a swear word than an actual definition.
And In this quote I'm guessing he'd have damning words for Trump with the recognition of what he is, were Eric Blair alive today.
“People worship power in the form in which they are able to understand it. A twelve-year-old boy worships Jack Dempsey. An adolescent in a Glasgow slum worships Al Capone. An aspiring pupil at a business college worships Lord Nuffield. A New Statesman reader worships Stalin. There is a difference in intellectual maturity, but none in moral outlook”
posted by rough ashlar at 12:21 PM on August 13, 2017 [32 favorites]
Ole George went to fight actual fascists with physical force. He also pointed out how the word years ago was more of a swear word than an actual definition.
And In this quote I'm guessing he'd have damning words for Trump with the recognition of what he is, were Eric Blair alive today.
“People worship power in the form in which they are able to understand it. A twelve-year-old boy worships Jack Dempsey. An adolescent in a Glasgow slum worships Al Capone. An aspiring pupil at a business college worships Lord Nuffield. A New Statesman reader worships Stalin. There is a difference in intellectual maturity, but none in moral outlook”
posted by rough ashlar at 12:21 PM on August 13, 2017 [32 favorites]
Heller says he doesn't know the kid.
A) Republicans are going to have a fun time trying to distance themselves from these assholes because in a lot of cases, these assholes are all over mainstream Republican orgs. and events. One of the Tiki Nazis is the president of his campus College Republicans club, and candidates LOVE to hang out with those student groups. They aggressively recruit campaign volunteers from the same demographics the Young Preppy Racist groups do.
B) Hey, Dean Heller: if the shit you do and the shit you say and the shit you and your party stand for is the type of shit that makes neo-Nazis want to get a picture with you, it may be time to ask, "Are we the baddies?" about yourself and the GOP.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:36 PM on August 13, 2017 [50 favorites]
A) Republicans are going to have a fun time trying to distance themselves from these assholes because in a lot of cases, these assholes are all over mainstream Republican orgs. and events. One of the Tiki Nazis is the president of his campus College Republicans club, and candidates LOVE to hang out with those student groups. They aggressively recruit campaign volunteers from the same demographics the Young Preppy Racist groups do.
B) Hey, Dean Heller: if the shit you do and the shit you say and the shit you and your party stand for is the type of shit that makes neo-Nazis want to get a picture with you, it may be time to ask, "Are we the baddies?" about yourself and the GOP.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:36 PM on August 13, 2017 [50 favorites]
Hey, Dean Heller: if the shit you do and the shit you say and the shit you and your party stand for is the type of shit that makes neo-Nazis want to get a picture with you, it may be time to ask, "Are we the baddies?" about yourself and the GOP.
Yes. This. Republicans - you broke it, you own it. If you're palling around with Nazis and other white supremacists in order to get votes and/or advance your agenda, you can't clutch your pearls and act shocked, shocked! when they go on a rampage.
Broke. Own.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 1:02 PM on August 13, 2017 [21 favorites]
Yes. This. Republicans - you broke it, you own it. If you're palling around with Nazis and other white supremacists in order to get votes and/or advance your agenda, you can't clutch your pearls and act shocked, shocked! when they go on a rampage.
Broke. Own.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 1:02 PM on August 13, 2017 [21 favorites]
One of the Tiki Nazis is the president of his campus College Republicans club
More than one, I believe! Well, a president and a former president.
posted by Justinian at 1:02 PM on August 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
More than one, I believe! Well, a president and a former president.
posted by Justinian at 1:02 PM on August 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
I am having a hell of time keeping Dean Heller and Dean Vernon Wormer separate in my mind.
posted by srboisvert at 1:17 PM on August 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 1:17 PM on August 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
Freebie question for reporters to ask Republicans who try to distance themselves from Nazis:
"You've said you don't know or condone [white nationalist], but it's clear that he has supported you as a politician. What is it about your political positions that white nationalists find so attractive?"
posted by biogeo at 1:31 PM on August 13, 2017 [55 favorites]
"You've said you don't know or condone [white nationalist], but it's clear that he has supported you as a politician. What is it about your political positions that white nationalists find so attractive?"
posted by biogeo at 1:31 PM on August 13, 2017 [55 favorites]
"You've said you don't know or condone [white nationalist], but it's clear that he has supported you as a politician. What is it about your political positions that white nationalists find so attractive?"Nah, that just gives them a free out to redirect the conversation to economic policies or other talking points where they are better positioned to keep peddling their bullshit. We've had enough rounds of the "economic anxiety" excuse already, thanks..
Personally I've been thinking maybe it's time to re-visit the "Basket of Deplorables" phrase and hang it around the neck of every mealy-mouthed non-condemner the administration trots out to try to spin this, e.g. "during the election the president was frequently criticized for courting 'deplorable' supporters and refusing to distance himself from so-called alt-right figures, many of whom he has appointed to his administration. Is there any connection between the president and the deplorable behavior we've seen in Charlottesville?"
posted by Nerd of the North at 1:37 PM on August 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
A bit more on Scaramucci's interview on This Week this morning: Scaramucci: Bannon's 'toleration' of white nationalism is 'inexcusable'
Man. Maybe I should put some of the money I'm not sending the ACLU anymore toward The Mooch's coke fund.
posted by Artw at 1:45 PM on August 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
Man. Maybe I should put some of the money I'm not sending the ACLU anymore toward The Mooch's coke fund.
posted by Artw at 1:45 PM on August 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
Personally I've been thinking maybe it's time to re-visit the "Basket of Deplorables" phrase
Fuck no.
She should have called them nazis now and we should call them nazis now. No more cutesy language, it just gives them a get out.
posted by Artw at 1:46 PM on August 13, 2017 [23 favorites]
Fuck no.
She should have called them nazis now and we should call them nazis now. No more cutesy language, it just gives them a get out.
posted by Artw at 1:46 PM on August 13, 2017 [23 favorites]
Calling them Nazis is perfectly reasonable. They wear and display Nazi symbols. They give the Nazi salute. They seem to adhere to at least some of the Nazi political platform. How are they not Nazis?
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 1:49 PM on August 13, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 1:49 PM on August 13, 2017 [19 favorites]
It was entirely reasonable to call them that then.
We'll all pay the price of the compulsion of the media and dems to pull their punches in 2016.
posted by Artw at 2:02 PM on August 13, 2017
We'll all pay the price of the compulsion of the media and dems to pull their punches in 2016.
posted by Artw at 2:02 PM on August 13, 2017
A bit more on Scaramucci's interview on This Week this morning: Scaramucci: Bannon's 'toleration' of white nationalism is 'inexcusable'
Not gonna link cuz fuck Breitbart, but Bannon & Co didn't take it well. They published a 2,000 word screed slamming him and defending Trump's response to the attacks.
The Scaramucci Show Continues: Anthony Blows Whatever Was Left of his Credibility With Trump’s Base
posted by chris24 at 2:18 PM on August 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
Not gonna link cuz fuck Breitbart, but Bannon & Co didn't take it well. They published a 2,000 word screed slamming him and defending Trump's response to the attacks.
The Scaramucci Show Continues: Anthony Blows Whatever Was Left of his Credibility With Trump’s Base
posted by chris24 at 2:18 PM on August 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
as opposed to steve bannon, who blows himself
posted by entropicamericana at 2:20 PM on August 13, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 2:20 PM on August 13, 2017 [26 favorites]
How are they not Nazis?
Because they are not a member of the American Nazi Party? (Is that still a party? By God, yes! No link provided because I don't care enough to lean what is the real party VS a parody.)
posted by rough ashlar at 2:21 PM on August 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Because they are not a member of the American Nazi Party? (Is that still a party? By God, yes! No link provided because I don't care enough to lean what is the real party VS a parody.)
posted by rough ashlar at 2:21 PM on August 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
(far-too) White House
Ben Jennings on Donald Trump and Charlottesville – cartoon
posted by walrus at 2:25 PM on August 13, 2017 [16 favorites]
Ben Jennings on Donald Trump and Charlottesville – cartoon
posted by walrus at 2:25 PM on August 13, 2017 [16 favorites]
The Scaramucci Show Continues: Anthony Blows . . .
Phrasing.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:30 PM on August 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Phrasing.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:30 PM on August 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Ben Jennings on Donald Trump and Charlottesville – cartoon
Well the WH is undergoing renovations right now.
posted by rhizome at 2:33 PM on August 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Well the WH is undergoing renovations right now.
posted by rhizome at 2:33 PM on August 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Such circumstances nurture statesmanship – or disclose its absence. Even by his own tawdry standards, Donald Trump’s response to these disturbances has been breathtakingly feeble.
...
Compare and contrast the splendid outrage of Virginia’s governor, Terry McAuliffe, who did not hesitate to distinguish between right and wrong. “You are not patriots,” he said. “You came here today to hurt people and that is not patriotic … My message is clear: we are stronger than you. You will not succeed. There is no place for you here and there is no place for you in America.”
...
to the shame of the presidency, it is a southern governor who calls for decency, while the commander-in-chief prevaricates
posted by walrus at 2:35 PM on August 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
...
Compare and contrast the splendid outrage of Virginia’s governor, Terry McAuliffe, who did not hesitate to distinguish between right and wrong. “You are not patriots,” he said. “You came here today to hurt people and that is not patriotic … My message is clear: we are stronger than you. You will not succeed. There is no place for you here and there is no place for you in America.”
...
to the shame of the presidency, it is a southern governor who calls for decency, while the commander-in-chief prevaricates
posted by walrus at 2:35 PM on August 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
Mod note: A few comments removed, seriously cut it out with the I Randomly Hope They Get Deported thing.
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:41 PM on August 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:41 PM on August 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
In addition to his asinine and offensive comments regarding Charlottesville, Bossert had this to say with Jake Tapper this morning.
VIDEO: White House Homeland Security Adviser Tom Bossert tells Jake Tapper that the President has not drawn a red line on North Korea and has "wisely avoided them."
Umm...
January: Trump's North Korea red line could come back to haunt him
2 weeks ago: Has North Korea Already Passed Trump's Red Line?
5 days ago. Trump just set his own, uncrossable 'red line' — and North Korea crossed it instantly
4 days ago. Graham: Trump has drawn a red line with North Korea
3 days ago. Is Trump shifting his red line on North Korea?
He's had multiple red lines *this week*.
posted by chris24 at 2:41 PM on August 13, 2017 [21 favorites]
VIDEO: White House Homeland Security Adviser Tom Bossert tells Jake Tapper that the President has not drawn a red line on North Korea and has "wisely avoided them."
Umm...
January: Trump's North Korea red line could come back to haunt him
2 weeks ago: Has North Korea Already Passed Trump's Red Line?
5 days ago. Trump just set his own, uncrossable 'red line' — and North Korea crossed it instantly
4 days ago. Graham: Trump has drawn a red line with North Korea
3 days ago. Is Trump shifting his red line on North Korea?
He's had multiple red lines *this week*.
posted by chris24 at 2:41 PM on August 13, 2017 [21 favorites]
As Indiana Jones once said, Nazis ... I hate those guys.
posted by Bringer Tom at 3:22 PM on August 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Bringer Tom at 3:22 PM on August 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
There were some particularly alarming North Korea comments from McMaster this morning. He went on ABC and said that North Korea cannot be deterred:
While you can argue about exactly how rationally North Korea acts and responds to pressures and events, where the hell do you go if the position of the national security advisor is that North Korea won't follow any normal theory of deterrence? The options, as far as I'm aware of them, are basically deterrence or an incredibly horrific, brutal war.
And as Jeffrey Lewis responds: "It is interesting that we only discuss whether the DPRK can be deterred when we are also discussing whether we can be."
The Times has more on that angle in Trump Threats Are Wild Card in Showdown With North Korea, and it's terrifying:
STEPHANOPOULOS: But your predecessor Susan Rice wrote this week that the U.S. could tolerate nuclear weapons in North Korea the same way we tolerated nuclear weapons in the Soviet Union far more during the Cold War. Is she right?[it was VX, not Sarin]
MCMASTER: No, she’s not right. And I think the reason she’s not right is that the classical deterrence theory, how does that apply to a regime like the regime in North Korea? A regime that engages in unspeakable brutality against its own people? A regime that poses a continuous threat to the its neighbors in the region and now may pose a threat, direct threat, to the United States with weapons of mass destruction? A regime that imprisons and murders anyone who seems to oppose that regime, including members of his own family, using sarin nerve gase (sic) -- gas in a public airport?
While you can argue about exactly how rationally North Korea acts and responds to pressures and events, where the hell do you go if the position of the national security advisor is that North Korea won't follow any normal theory of deterrence? The options, as far as I'm aware of them, are basically deterrence or an incredibly horrific, brutal war.
And as Jeffrey Lewis responds: "It is interesting that we only discuss whether the DPRK can be deterred when we are also discussing whether we can be."
The Times has more on that angle in Trump Threats Are Wild Card in Showdown With North Korea, and it's terrifying:
In this case, Mr. Trump has told people around him that he thinks Kim Jong-un, the unpredictable North Korean leader, will ultimately be prodded to cut a deal, and that the bluntness of his language is intended to create a crisis that drives him to negotiate before North Korea perfects a nuclear-tipped missile capable of striking the American mainland.posted by zachlipton at 3:22 PM on August 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
...
Even some of the president’s own advisers have quietly asked each other in recent days if Mr. Trump’s bellicosity toward North Korea is part of some thought-out strategy that they have not been told about or what they suspect is just more on-the-fly instinct. But some aides have found themselves surprised at other moments when Mr. Trump has done something unexpected and seemingly random, only to explain his thinking afterward in a way that indicated more calculation than they had thought.
Aides do know that after a lifetime in the real estate business, Mr. Trump starts a negotiation with an extreme position intended to ensure that the other side meets him not just in the middle but closer to his side. While he has little experience in translating that into international diplomacy, Mr. Trump has shown that he is not so wedded to any particular position on almost any issue, meaning he might be more likely to accept a compromise that would seem unthinkable judging by the stark language he uses at the start.
A regime that engages in unspeakable brutality against its own people? A regime that poses a continuous threat to the its neighbors in the region and now may pose a threat, direct threat, to the United States with weapons of mass destruction? A regime that imprisons and murders anyone who seems to oppose that regime, including members of his own family, using sarin nerve gase (sic) -- gas in a public airport?
I believe each and every one of these charges against North Korea, during the 70's and 80's applied to the USSR.
posted by mikelieman at 3:26 PM on August 13, 2017 [15 favorites]
I believe each and every one of these charges against North Korea, during the 70's and 80's applied to the USSR.
posted by mikelieman at 3:26 PM on August 13, 2017 [15 favorites]
I believe each and every one of these charges against North Korea, during the 70's and 80's applied to the USSR.
yeah, but the face of soviet leadership then had the same skin tone and round eyes as the face of the american leadership, then and now.
Okay, then how about Maoist China?
posted by chris24 at 3:39 PM on August 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
yeah, but the face of soviet leadership then had the same skin tone and round eyes as the face of the american leadership, then and now.
Okay, then how about Maoist China?
posted by chris24 at 3:39 PM on August 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
We've now entered the Cernovich and Alex Jones claim that McMaster has a drinking problem phase of the smear campaign, along with the "is Bannon behind it?" counterattack.
Remember how Kelly was supposed to be making the place run smoother. Well oiled machine.
posted by zachlipton at 3:48 PM on August 13, 2017 [16 favorites]
Remember how Kelly was supposed to be making the place run smoother. Well oiled machine.
posted by zachlipton at 3:48 PM on August 13, 2017 [16 favorites]
Please get your terms straight, zachlipton. It's "fine-tuned machine." sheesh
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:52 PM on August 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:52 PM on August 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
Please get your terms straight, zachlipton. It's "fine-tuned machine." sheesh
Well there's the problem. Pour too much oil in a fine tuned machine and you gum it up.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:57 PM on August 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
Well there's the problem. Pour too much oil in a fine tuned machine and you gum it up.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:57 PM on August 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
Okay, then how about Maoist China?
lil' buddy jared and his fam are busy trying to scam them. ain't nobody in the trump regime doing that to lil' kim.
Meaning in the 60s and 70s, China was a nuclear state killing millions of its own people in the Cultural Revolution, expanding its influence militarily and trying to dominate the region, and basically fighting a proxy war with us in Vietnam and yet we were able to not go to actual, much less nuclear war with them.
This idea that a nuclear North Korea is uniquely evil or dangerous and thus undeterable is ahistorical and nothing but a pretext for a Wag the Dog war for Trump.
posted by chris24 at 4:08 PM on August 13, 2017 [37 favorites]
lil' buddy jared and his fam are busy trying to scam them. ain't nobody in the trump regime doing that to lil' kim.
Meaning in the 60s and 70s, China was a nuclear state killing millions of its own people in the Cultural Revolution, expanding its influence militarily and trying to dominate the region, and basically fighting a proxy war with us in Vietnam and yet we were able to not go to actual, much less nuclear war with them.
This idea that a nuclear North Korea is uniquely evil or dangerous and thus undeterable is ahistorical and nothing but a pretext for a Wag the Dog war for Trump.
posted by chris24 at 4:08 PM on August 13, 2017 [37 favorites]
I realize that there are lots of posters and lots of comments from nattering nabobs, but I would like to point out that I don't need to be lectured on North Korea.
I wasn't trying to lecture you. I was explaining my comment that I thought you misinterpreted. mikelieman commented that McMaster's excuses about North Korea could just as easily be used against the USSR. You said that them being white made the difference. So I raised the example of China under Mao. You replied by referring to current Trump-China interactions. So I clarified what I meant by my comment.
posted by chris24 at 4:32 PM on August 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
I wasn't trying to lecture you. I was explaining my comment that I thought you misinterpreted. mikelieman commented that McMaster's excuses about North Korea could just as easily be used against the USSR. You said that them being white made the difference. So I raised the example of China under Mao. You replied by referring to current Trump-China interactions. So I clarified what I meant by my comment.
posted by chris24 at 4:32 PM on August 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
Politico, Josh Dawsey, Trump aides predicting 'brutal' September
posted by zachlipton at 8:37 PM on August 13, 2017 [20 favorites]
Inside President Donald Trump’s White House, no one seems to be looking forward to September.The debt ceiling and the fact the government shuts down September 30th are live grenades, and the White House can't make up its mind what it even wants, let alone health care, rewriting the tax code, and who knows what else.
Senior officials have described the coming month as "brutal," “bad” or “really tough” because of the confluence of complicated issues — but they also say it’s pivotal to getting the presidency back on course.
Aides hope to have a better blueprint for how the president wants to proceed on a series of thorny issues — the nation’s debt ceiling, the 2018 federal budget, tax reform, infrastructure spending and perhaps another stab at repealing Obamacare — after a series of meetings in New York this week.
Their goal is to partially temper Trump’s expectations, hammer out some compromises and get a competing band of aides on the same page. The month has taken on outsize importance among some top aides and outside advisers, who view it as key to getting the presidency on a better track.
...
Trump, who is impatient, wants it all done immediately, said people close to the president — and he has ratcheted up pressure on aides in recent weeks, even though he doesn't always engage with the substance of issues.
What makes the month harder is that many of the fights are in Congress, where the president and his team have little control.
posted by zachlipton at 8:37 PM on August 13, 2017 [20 favorites]
but they also say it’s pivotal to getting the presidency back on course.
"back" on course?
posted by jason_steakums at 8:41 PM on August 13, 2017 [52 favorites]
"back" on course?
posted by jason_steakums at 8:41 PM on August 13, 2017 [52 favorites]
Every frigging month is bad for them!
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:02 PM on August 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:02 PM on August 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
The NY Daily News has a nice "welcome back to NYC" cover for Don.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:10 PM on August 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:10 PM on August 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
PR pro-tip: Try to avoid situations where your name and Hitler's are on a newspaper front page together.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:13 PM on August 13, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:13 PM on August 13, 2017 [16 favorites]
So, I've given this a lot of thought and I need to ask: Who and how do I petition to change the name and punchline of The Aristocrats into Making America Great Again?
posted by ckape at 9:23 PM on August 13, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by ckape at 9:23 PM on August 13, 2017 [23 favorites]
I'm pointing out that they're being selected because Trump is a racist. His regime is racist. Pretty much everything about it is racist.
Was the public relations (used to be called Propaganda until the word Propaganda developed its own emotional baggage and became in the west what "the others" used.) effort used to try an justify the "police action" for the Korean conflict motivated by racism?
Because the policy and language decisions used then to take what actions used to be called a war and "market" them are echoing today in the Trumpery on the topic. Propaganda principles of repetition over time is what I'm seeing. And Dear Leader LOVES 'public relations'. An old attage about how it is easier to con a con man comes to mind. And he's of an age where the past marketing efforts to him no longer have whatever filters make the older folks "gullible" and targets for propaganda.
As for the regime and its -ism's:
Dear Leader didn't form this out of a vacuum, he has been handed this thing. This thing and its underlings, mid level functionaries, and low level enforcers will all be there after he's gone plus whatever new layers he's able to lay down. Other than a wholesale shutdown and removal of everyone - what's an actual plan to be rid of the people in the thing we'll call a regime who are what we'll call racists? A purity test? If there is no plan to change the layers below a change at the top isn't gonna do much beyond rearrange the deck chairs on the Lusitania.
(and a thank you to the poster who linked to http://www.dancarlin.com/hardcore-history-59-the-destroyer-of-worlds/ the other day. Great content. )
posted by rough ashlar at 9:40 PM on August 13, 2017
Was the public relations (used to be called Propaganda until the word Propaganda developed its own emotional baggage and became in the west what "the others" used.) effort used to try an justify the "police action" for the Korean conflict motivated by racism?
Because the policy and language decisions used then to take what actions used to be called a war and "market" them are echoing today in the Trumpery on the topic. Propaganda principles of repetition over time is what I'm seeing. And Dear Leader LOVES 'public relations'. An old attage about how it is easier to con a con man comes to mind. And he's of an age where the past marketing efforts to him no longer have whatever filters make the older folks "gullible" and targets for propaganda.
As for the regime and its -ism's:
Dear Leader didn't form this out of a vacuum, he has been handed this thing. This thing and its underlings, mid level functionaries, and low level enforcers will all be there after he's gone plus whatever new layers he's able to lay down. Other than a wholesale shutdown and removal of everyone - what's an actual plan to be rid of the people in the thing we'll call a regime who are what we'll call racists? A purity test? If there is no plan to change the layers below a change at the top isn't gonna do much beyond rearrange the deck chairs on the Lusitania.
(and a thank you to the poster who linked to http://www.dancarlin.com/hardcore-history-59-the-destroyer-of-worlds/ the other day. Great content. )
posted by rough ashlar at 9:40 PM on August 13, 2017
The debt ceiling and the fact the government shuts down September 30th are live grenades
Humans are creatures of habit. The habit and what Dear Leader knows about unserviceable debt loads is you take the shutdown operation to bankruptcy.
Toss the grenade to the Bankruptcy Court and let the creditors absorb the shrapnel - it is what they signed up for after all.
Would'a made for an interesting topic for the debates this live grenade.
posted by rough ashlar at 9:45 PM on August 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Humans are creatures of habit. The habit and what Dear Leader knows about unserviceable debt loads is you take the shutdown operation to bankruptcy.
Toss the grenade to the Bankruptcy Court and let the creditors absorb the shrapnel - it is what they signed up for after all.
Would'a made for an interesting topic for the debates this live grenade.
posted by rough ashlar at 9:45 PM on August 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
@DineshDSouza:
SET YOUR ALARM: I'll be on @foxandfriends at 7.15 am tomorrow to unravel the media's whole #Charlottesville narrative
@allahpundit: (HotAir) retweeted Dinesh D'Souza
Seriously, Kelly needs to hide Trump’s phone tonight
---
It may seem like snark but the seriously is actually serious. Dinesh has a new book on how Democrats are the true motivation and source behind Hitler's tactics and genocide. And since my Trumpette racist mom retweets most of his tweets, I have the joy of seeing his nutjob rants. So not surprising that a Republican fears Trump watching his favorite show tomorrow morn and tweeting something wildly offensive and historically incoherent.
posted by chris24 at 9:57 PM on August 13, 2017 [14 favorites]
SET YOUR ALARM: I'll be on @foxandfriends at 7.15 am tomorrow to unravel the media's whole #Charlottesville narrative
@allahpundit: (HotAir) retweeted Dinesh D'Souza
Seriously, Kelly needs to hide Trump’s phone tonight
---
It may seem like snark but the seriously is actually serious. Dinesh has a new book on how Democrats are the true motivation and source behind Hitler's tactics and genocide. And since my Trumpette racist mom retweets most of his tweets, I have the joy of seeing his nutjob rants. So not surprising that a Republican fears Trump watching his favorite show tomorrow morn and tweeting something wildly offensive and historically incoherent.
posted by chris24 at 9:57 PM on August 13, 2017 [14 favorites]
So, can Congress get the Treasury to mint a trillion-dollar coin, or is that something that has to come from the Executive branch? Just asking now to get it out of the way before September.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 9:59 PM on August 13, 2017
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 9:59 PM on August 13, 2017
that cernovich's name is still appearing in the news in any capacity is the clearest sign that the last two years is just my brain's attempt to build a narrative from random memories and sense input as i lay dying of a massive cerebral hemorrhage on the cold linoleum of the bathroom floor
posted by murphy slaw at 10:00 PM on August 13, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 10:00 PM on August 13, 2017 [32 favorites]
Congress doesn't need to get the Treasury to mint a trillion-dollar coin. Congress can just raise the debit limit. The trillion-dollar coin thing is a (pretty stupid) idea for the Executive taking unilateral action if Congress doesn't.
And there's no bankruptcy court if the US defaults on the national debt. There's the IMF, I guess, but their response is going to be basically how the parable of the man by the river ends: god at the gates of St. Peter asking "what the hell are you doing here?"
Default is not an option.
posted by zachlipton at 10:06 PM on August 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
And there's no bankruptcy court if the US defaults on the national debt. There's the IMF, I guess, but their response is going to be basically how the parable of the man by the river ends: god at the gates of St. Peter asking "what the hell are you doing here?"
Default is not an option.
posted by zachlipton at 10:06 PM on August 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Eh, the US never actually declared war on North Korea; additionally, it was considered a "police action" because the war was actually fought under the banner of the UN--the USSR was boycotting the UN Security Council at the time over the PRC/ROC issue, which prevented them from vetoing the resolution.
And that history podcast posted by a different member of The Blue and cited above goes into it in with the lens of the use of nuclear weapons. But used the actual historical events VS this Trump-level summary that hits an actual truth and hides it in a repackaging tying to poorly market it better.
Truman - yea, sending troops, a blockade, and this stuff that sure would be called a war yup.
Reporter - not a war?
Truman - nope. Will of the UN or something, hand wave, hand wave
Reporter - spits it back out and says So its a police action?
Truman - Yea that's the ticket! Police Action. See now, no need for nukes! Cuz its not a war and the police don't have nukes! Say, wanna better looking hat?
(And yes, can't Trump *ALSO* be a Dear Leader?)
posted by rough ashlar at 10:14 PM on August 13, 2017
And that history podcast posted by a different member of The Blue and cited above goes into it in with the lens of the use of nuclear weapons. But used the actual historical events VS this Trump-level summary that hits an actual truth and hides it in a repackaging tying to poorly market it better.
Truman - yea, sending troops, a blockade, and this stuff that sure would be called a war yup.
Reporter - not a war?
Truman - nope. Will of the UN or something, hand wave, hand wave
Reporter - spits it back out and says So its a police action?
Truman - Yea that's the ticket! Police Action. See now, no need for nukes! Cuz its not a war and the police don't have nukes! Say, wanna better looking hat?
(And yes, can't Trump *ALSO* be a Dear Leader?)
posted by rough ashlar at 10:14 PM on August 13, 2017
They wear and display Nazi symbols. They give the Nazi salute. They seem to adhere to at least some of the Nazi political platform. How are they not Nazis?
First you're trying to convince me that it's white people not Muslims that are the radical extremists and now you're saying that the alt right defenders of free speech are some kind of Socialists!!!! What kind of crazy left is right, black is white echo chamber is this place?
</trumpbase>
posted by flabdablet at 10:36 PM on August 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
First you're trying to convince me that it's white people not Muslims that are the radical extremists and now you're saying that the alt right defenders of free speech are some kind of Socialists!!!! What kind of crazy left is right, black is white echo chamber is this place?
</trumpbase>
posted by flabdablet at 10:36 PM on August 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
John Oliver, Last Week Tonight: North Korea, featuring a surprise musical guest (which will be spoiled if you read the YouTube description or pay attention).
From the show before the main segment: "Nazis are a lot like cats. If they like you, it's probably because you're feeding them."
posted by zachlipton at 11:39 PM on August 13, 2017 [29 favorites]
From the show before the main segment: "Nazis are a lot like cats. If they like you, it's probably because you're feeding them."
posted by zachlipton at 11:39 PM on August 13, 2017 [29 favorites]
Americans once carpet-bombed North Korea. It's time to remember that past (Bruce Cumings, The Guardian)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 12:23 AM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Joseph Gurl at 12:23 AM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Mod note: One deleted. Let's not continue on with the "speaking in the voice of bigoted Trump supporter" commentary, which invariably wanders into offensive stuff that wouldn't be okay to post otherwise. I totally get that it's meant to be a sort of satire, but the "ironic racism (etc.)" thing is fraught, and we've been asking folks not to do that for a while.
posted by taz (staff) at 2:40 AM on August 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 2:40 AM on August 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
Fuck linking to the Daily Caller, but here's a chunk of the article. I love when awful people go full End-of-Reservoir-Dogs.
Daily Caller: EXCLUSIVE: Former Trump Adviser Says He Will ‘Blow’ McMaster, Drudge ‘The F**k Out’ If Bannon Is Ousted
Daily Caller: EXCLUSIVE: Former Trump Adviser Says He Will ‘Blow’ McMaster, Drudge ‘The F**k Out’ If Bannon Is Ousted
Sam Nunberg, a former political adviser to Donald Trump, warned Sunday of dire consequences for National Security Adviser H.R. McMaster and Matt Drudge if White House chief strategist Steve Bannon is pushed out of the West Wing.posted by chris24 at 4:42 AM on August 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
“If Steve is fired by the White House and a bunch of generals take over the White House there will be hell to pay,” Nunberg, a longtime Trump aide who left the presidential campaign in August 2015, told The Daily Caller in an exclusive interview. His comments came after an Axios report that claimed Bannon’s job is in jeopardy due to damaging leaks against McMaster and anger over a recent book touting Bannon’s role on the Trump presidential campaign.
Nunberg told TheDC that he was “very perturbed” by the Axios story and tied in Bannon’s reported downfall to the Drudge Report, which continues to link to stories that are negative to the White House chief strategist.
“Matt should go back into his hobble hole in Miami and listen to techno,” the former Trump campaign adviser said. “Matt should understand that people like me can blow him the fook up. F-o-o-k, Conor McGregor. Blow him the fook up [sic].” (Nunberg was referencing Irish MMA fighter Conor McGregor, who pronounces “fuck” as “fook.”)
Drudge has not made it known why he doesn’t favor Bannon on his site. However, he has previously suspected Bannon of leaking in to an email reviewed by TheDC, and he is known to link to articles that paint reported Bannon foe Jared Kushner in a positive light.
“Matt should understand there will be serious fucking consequences if he continues this jihad against Steve Bannon,” Nunberg told TheDC. “I was somebody with [Trump] for four and half fucking years who understood and came up with a formula to win…Matt Drudge is somebody who wants web traffic.”
He added, “I’ll get conservative radio to talk about how Matt Drudge pushed out Steve Bannon so McMaster can control the White House.”
Dinesh has a new book on how Democrats are the true motivation and source behind Hitler's tactics and genocide.Everyone has known for decades (at least, I hope they do, I learned this in school) that Hitler and his enablers were greatly inspired by the American eugenics movement that swept through progressive, sincerely leftist/socialist intellectuals in the early part of the century. If that's Dinesh's big fat reveal, I'll forgive anyone who yawns.
posted by xyzzy at 5:04 AM on August 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
If that's Dinesh's big fat reveal, I'll forgive anyone who yawns.
It's that and that Democrats are the real fascists. From the overview of The Big Lie:
posted by chris24 at 5:13 AM on August 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
It's that and that Democrats are the real fascists. From the overview of The Big Lie:
What is "the big lie" of the Democratic Party? That conservatives—and President Donald Trump in particular—are fascists. Nazis, even. In a typical comment, MSNBC host Rachel Maddow says the Trump era is reminiscent of "what it was like when Hitler first became chancellor."So basically, I'm not the puppet, you're the puppet.
But in fact, this audacious lie is a complete inversion of the truth. Yes, there is a fascist threat in America—but that threat is from the Left and the Democratic Party. The Democratic left has an ideology virtually identical with fascism and routinely borrows tactics of intimidation and political terror from the Nazi Brownshirts.
To cover up their insidious fascist agenda, Democrats loudly accuse President Trump and other Republicans of being Nazis—an obvious lie, considering the GOP has been fighting the Democrats over slavery, genocide, racism and fascism from the beginning.
Now, finally, Dinesh D'Souza explodes the Left's big lie. He expertly exonerates President Trump and his supporters, then uncovers the Democratic Left's long, cozy relationship with Nazism: how the racist and genocidal acts of early Democrats inspired Adolf Hitler's campaign of death; how fascist philosophers influenced the great 20th century lions of the American Left; and how today's anti-free speech, anti-capitalist, anti-religious liberty, pro-violence Democratic Party is a frightening simulacrum of the Nazi Party.
posted by chris24 at 5:13 AM on August 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
He added, “I’ll get conservative radio to talk about how Matt Drudge pushed out Steve Bannon so McMaster can control the White House.”
Popcorn, please...
posted by Mental Wimp at 5:16 AM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Popcorn, please...
posted by Mental Wimp at 5:16 AM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Former Trump Adviser Says He Will ‘Blow’ McMaster
sweet jesus, what is it with these people
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:18 AM on August 14, 2017 [29 favorites]
sweet jesus, what is it with these people
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:18 AM on August 14, 2017 [29 favorites]
and how today's anti-free speech, anti-capitalist, anti-religious liberty, pro-violence Democratic Party is a frightening simulacrum of the Nazi Party.
TRANSLATION - "why settle for a simulacrum of the nazi party when you can have the REAL THING?"
posted by pyramid termite at 5:18 AM on August 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
TRANSLATION - "why settle for a simulacrum of the nazi party when you can have the REAL THING?"
posted by pyramid termite at 5:18 AM on August 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
I would appreciate it if everyone here gave Dinesh the respect he deserves and call him by his correct title of 'convicted felon Dinseh D'Souza'
posted by PenDevil at 5:19 AM on August 14, 2017 [60 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 5:19 AM on August 14, 2017 [60 favorites]
Let's mock convicted felon Dinesh D'Souza a bit. Yesterday he tweeted a pic of what looks at first glance like huge stacks of his new book for sale.
@DineshDSouza
This argument is more relevant than ever as the media left tries to use #Charlottesville to promote its Big Lies about fascism & Nazism [PIC]
Except it was obvious that he had just gone there and put a bunch of his books on top of already existing stacks of other books.
@dandrezner Retweeted Dinesh D'Souza
Let me get this straight: you went to a Costco and put your book on top of stacks of other books so it would look more popular?
And then later:
@dandrezner Retweeted Daniel Drezner
I'm not gonna lie: I'm pretty pleased that this tweet generated more traffic than @DineshDSouza's original tweet.
6 times more likes and retweets.
posted by chris24 at 5:28 AM on August 14, 2017 [33 favorites]
@DineshDSouza
This argument is more relevant than ever as the media left tries to use #Charlottesville to promote its Big Lies about fascism & Nazism [PIC]
Except it was obvious that he had just gone there and put a bunch of his books on top of already existing stacks of other books.
@dandrezner Retweeted Dinesh D'Souza
Let me get this straight: you went to a Costco and put your book on top of stacks of other books so it would look more popular?
And then later:
@dandrezner Retweeted Daniel Drezner
I'm not gonna lie: I'm pretty pleased that this tweet generated more traffic than @DineshDSouza's original tweet.
6 times more likes and retweets.
posted by chris24 at 5:28 AM on August 14, 2017 [33 favorites]
You guys inspired me to look up Dinesh D'Souza, since I know he is someone my mom likes and I wasn't sure how hebcibnected to the alt right... I found this amazing Vanity Fair profile.
He dated Ann Coulter AND Laura Ingrahm?
He cheated on his wife after accepting a job at a Christian college?
He got himself a worse sentence for that felony campaign finance law violation by publicly insisting during sentencing he was being persecuted for his political opinions... while his lawyer was trying to argue that he was remorseful of his crimes?
Oh, and he wrote this stuff in a book...
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:36 AM on August 14, 2017 [53 favorites]
He dated Ann Coulter AND Laura Ingrahm?
He cheated on his wife after accepting a job at a Christian college?
He got himself a worse sentence for that felony campaign finance law violation by publicly insisting during sentencing he was being persecuted for his political opinions... while his lawyer was trying to argue that he was remorseful of his crimes?
Oh, and he wrote this stuff in a book...
Education, he pushed his argument further, in 1995, with The End of Racism. His being brown himself, he believed, put him in a privileged position to comment on race and would inoculate him against criticism. Among his assertions: slavery in this country was not actually based on race. That if we’re going to discuss America owing blacks reparations for slavery, then what do blacks owe America for the abolition of slavery? He riffed on “widely different personalities” developed during slavery—“the playful Sambo, the sullen ‘field nigger,’ the dependable Mammy, the sly and inscrutable trickster”—that, he claimed, were “still recognizable.” It was another best-seller, but this time the press denounced it as insensitive. Sullivan, who had planned to run an excerpt in The New Republic, declined to publish it. Eventually, recalls Sullivan, “in the office, he was called by his nickname, ‘Distort Denewsa.’ ” Glenn Loury and Bob Woodson, two African-American colleagues at A.E.I., resigned in protest. As Loury wrote, “It violated the canons of civility and commonality.”This is one of the leading intellectual lights of the conservative movement, I'm told.
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:36 AM on August 14, 2017 [53 favorites]
Fun story about convicted felon Dinseh D'Souza, my wife works our local last remaining vestage of a national bookseller chain that rhymes with Darns & Woble. They have to stock all the new releases, but some rightwing garbage humans get special treatment in the 10th most liberal county in America, including convicted felon Dinseh D'Souza. They put out exactly one copy of his screeds and shitty Hilary bashing movies, and when that one sells, it's not restocked. If someone asks to buy it, and they have some right wing regulars that will religiously buy every new release on the wingnut welfare circuit, they tell them, "oh, it must be out, let me check in the back for you" and return with exactly one copy to sell to that sad fuck that specifically sought it out and asked to buy a garbage book by convicted felon Dinseh D'Souza in person.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:47 AM on August 14, 2017 [54 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:47 AM on August 14, 2017 [54 favorites]
Glenn Loury and Bob Woodson, two African-American colleagues at A.E.I., resigned in protest. As Loury wrote, “It violated the canons of civility and commonality.”
Good lord! When Glenn Loury finds your racist swill offensive you must really have crossed the line.
posted by rdr at 5:51 AM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Good lord! When Glenn Loury finds your racist swill offensive you must really have crossed the line.
posted by rdr at 5:51 AM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
This argument is more relevant than ever as the media left tries to use #Charlottesville to promote its Big Lies about fascism & Nazism
Let me get this straight: you went to a Costco and put your book on top of stacks of other books so it would look more popular?
Even if he did not do that, a pic of a big stack of your books in a discount retailer, with remaindered price stickers on them? #authorbragfail
posted by thelonius at 5:59 AM on August 14, 2017 [14 favorites]
Let me get this straight: you went to a Costco and put your book on top of stacks of other books so it would look more popular?
Even if he did not do that, a pic of a big stack of your books in a discount retailer, with remaindered price stickers on them? #authorbragfail
posted by thelonius at 5:59 AM on August 14, 2017 [14 favorites]
Is that the authorial equivalent of direct to DVD?
posted by C'est la D.C. at 6:15 AM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by C'est la D.C. at 6:15 AM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
When Jeff fucking Sessions thinks you're being too racist...
@NorahODonnell:
Does the President today need to specifically condemn neo-Nazis and white supremacists?
AG Sessions: "Absolutely." on @CBSThisMorning
VIDEO
posted by chris24 at 6:31 AM on August 14, 2017 [13 favorites]
@NorahODonnell:
Does the President today need to specifically condemn neo-Nazis and white supremacists?
AG Sessions: "Absolutely." on @CBSThisMorning
VIDEO
posted by chris24 at 6:31 AM on August 14, 2017 [13 favorites]
He cheated on his wife after accepting a job at a Christian college?
He got himself a worse sentence for that felony campaign finance law violation by publicly insisting during sentencing he was being persecuted for his political opinions... while his lawyer was trying to argue that he was remorseful of his crimes?
Republicans: Party of white supremacists, criminals, and libertines. "The only moral divorce is MY divorce!*" Family values, my pinko commie behind.
White evangelicals as a bloc (I'm not talking about individual Christians) have no actual values beyond white supremacy and the "prosperity gospel" (which the historical Jesus denounced).
*note: I don't think divorce is wrong or immoral! I just hate "family values" hypocrisy.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 6:34 AM on August 14, 2017 [13 favorites]
He got himself a worse sentence for that felony campaign finance law violation by publicly insisting during sentencing he was being persecuted for his political opinions... while his lawyer was trying to argue that he was remorseful of his crimes?
Republicans: Party of white supremacists, criminals, and libertines. "The only moral divorce is MY divorce!*" Family values, my pinko commie behind.
White evangelicals as a bloc (I'm not talking about individual Christians) have no actual values beyond white supremacy and the "prosperity gospel" (which the historical Jesus denounced).
*note: I don't think divorce is wrong or immoral! I just hate "family values" hypocrisy.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 6:34 AM on August 14, 2017 [13 favorites]
Putting all your books on top of the other books makes it look like no one wants them, not like they're more popular.
posted by yoga at 6:36 AM on August 14, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by yoga at 6:36 AM on August 14, 2017 [13 favorites]
Dirty Dean Heller is still trying to repeal the ACA. Andy Slavitt:
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:47 AM on August 14, 2017 [28 favorites]
- The last vote was aiming 2 get a bill into Conference where Graham-Cassidy-Heller (GCH) were hoping their bill would come out final bill. This is a good paper which shows that GCH would have virtually identical impact to all repeal bills. But....GCH has 1 major Trumpcare difference:
a welfare program for states that didn't expand Medicaid (Rs only) & who meet set up criteria. The punchline of Graham-Cassidy-Heller is not "block grants"-- it's a redistribution scheme of welfare payments to red states. Here's how: GCH takes billions in Medicaid $ & "redistributes" it w a formula to specific states. Financed by massive blue state cuts. GCH aims to get 25 governors to endorse. How? Payment sweeteners. Why 25 states? = 50 Senators. To the winner go the spoils.. Because only "winners" would vote 4 it, ignores 60 vote plea from McCain 2 save Senate. It's quite cynical. It's divisive. It may work. GCH caps Medicaid, deeply cuts care, ends expansion, leads 2 higher costs 4 low income. But gives a payday* 2 states that didn't expand. Payday is short term. Cuts are so deep that in [longer] term all states lose out. Graham, Cassidy, Heller is the most significant threat 2 repeal ACA. Trump is bullying the Senate to take it up. 25 gov plan is the way👇
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:47 AM on August 14, 2017 [28 favorites]
Does anyone else use the Quartz app? I just found out it has a Trump Snooze feature, which will reduce Trump related news items to only honest-to-Pete emergencies (or so they say). I'm giving it a try, be nice to reduce the non-essential Trump background radiation. :)
posted by hilaryjade at 6:50 AM on August 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by hilaryjade at 6:50 AM on August 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
How is this app defining emergencies?
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:51 AM on August 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:51 AM on August 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
One of my siblings who lives in the belt buckle of the bible belt met us at a midway point for lunch over the weekend. All the voting age people in her family went Trump.
Hubby says, yeah my newest idea is to restart the rail line that runs from Charleston to the NC mountains & have all the little towns coordinate festivals & people could just take the train up to go whitewater rafting & hiking for the day - I'm SURE there's Federal money for parks like that! He is writing to the mayors of all said little towns on the rail route.
I told my sane sibling (I have 3 and 1 is sane. the other 2 are not) about the exchange & that I wanted to say, not anymore since YOUR idiot president has defunded the parks, moron. Sane sibling said, you should've said that!
Later mrs. yoga and I said, that would've been a waste of breath. Because it would've devolved into political debating, which then would take a turn for religion, as it always does, when they bump up against reality logic.
posted by yoga at 6:56 AM on August 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
Hubby says, yeah my newest idea is to restart the rail line that runs from Charleston to the NC mountains & have all the little towns coordinate festivals & people could just take the train up to go whitewater rafting & hiking for the day - I'm SURE there's Federal money for parks like that! He is writing to the mayors of all said little towns on the rail route.
I told my sane sibling (I have 3 and 1 is sane. the other 2 are not) about the exchange & that I wanted to say, not anymore since YOUR idiot president has defunded the parks, moron. Sane sibling said, you should've said that!
Later mrs. yoga and I said, that would've been a waste of breath. Because it would've devolved into political debating, which then would take a turn for religion, as it always does, when they bump up against reality logic.
posted by yoga at 6:56 AM on August 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
not anymore since YOUR idiot president has defunded the parks, moron
Also: trains = liberals love trains = no go
posted by thelonius at 7:00 AM on August 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
Also: trains = liberals love trains = no go
posted by thelonius at 7:00 AM on August 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
>@NorahODonnell:
Does the President today need to specifically condemn neo-Nazis and white supremacists?
AG Sessions: "Absolutely." on @CBSThisMorning
Not nearly as clear as that one word summary suggests. Sessions says Trump was clear yesterday and will/might repeat that today.
posted by stonepharisee at 7:03 AM on August 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
Does the President today need to specifically condemn neo-Nazis and white supremacists?
AG Sessions: "Absolutely." on @CBSThisMorning
Not nearly as clear as that one word summary suggests. Sessions says Trump was clear yesterday and will/might repeat that today.
posted by stonepharisee at 7:03 AM on August 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
Merck CEO Kenneth Frazier resigned from the President's Manufacturing Council, saying, "America's leaders must honor our fundamental values by clearly rejecting expressions of hatred, bigotry and group supremacy."
Presidential response: attacks Frazier on Twitter, saying Frazier's resignation will give him "more time to LOWER RIPOFF DRUG PRICES!"
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 7:22 AM on August 14, 2017 [13 favorites]
Presidential response: attacks Frazier on Twitter, saying Frazier's resignation will give him "more time to LOWER RIPOFF DRUG PRICES!"
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 7:22 AM on August 14, 2017 [13 favorites]
Trump HHS Severs Key Partnerships For Obamacare Outreach
Both representatives of the former partner groups and former HHS officials say the relationships with gig economy companies, youth organizations, churches, women’s groups, and African American and Latino civil rights non-profits were critical to keeping Obamacare’s markets functioning, and their termination is a clear example of sabotage.
They're going to sabotage the ACA in every way possible.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:36 AM on August 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
Both representatives of the former partner groups and former HHS officials say the relationships with gig economy companies, youth organizations, churches, women’s groups, and African American and Latino civil rights non-profits were critical to keeping Obamacare’s markets functioning, and their termination is a clear example of sabotage.
They're going to sabotage the ACA in every way possible.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:36 AM on August 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
How is this app defining emergencies?
On a case by case basis.
posted by zarq at 7:41 AM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
On a case by case basis.
Seward said that Quartz had heard from many readers — and, of course, its own team had experienced — that Trump news can feel “relentless and a little draining.” Quartz sends out about six notifications through its app on the average day. Non-Trump-related political news can’t be snoozed — and, in addition, Quartz editors retain the discretion to send through really important Trump-related news if warranted even if the snooze is on. When I asked for examples of what might come through — I was curious, in particular, about the Comey “nut job” revelations of last week — Seward said it would really be handled case by case and that, when testing the snooze feature earlier this year, the team chose, for example, to send through Trump’s statement about the bombing of Syria.
“There are certainly news stories that feel like they rise to a clear bar of importance, regardless of being about Trump,” he said.
posted by zarq at 7:41 AM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Also: trains = liberals love trains = no go
This is too real. Conservatives fucking hate trains for reasons that are not at all clear to me. Some of it, like the MARTA hatred in suburban Atlanta, is racism. But the rest of it is just a mystery. They shut down the Florida high speed rail project (this makes me mad especially because it would've been done by now if Jeb hadn't killed it) because "taxes!!!" (i.e., fuck liberals), but they have no compunction about spending billions on constant road building. There's nothing conservative or liberal about trains, they're just a mode of transpo but damn do conservatives hate trains. It makes no sense to me except that their ideology gets its momentum from the lobbies for resource extraction industries.
posted by dis_integration at 7:42 AM on August 14, 2017 [58 favorites]
This is too real. Conservatives fucking hate trains for reasons that are not at all clear to me. Some of it, like the MARTA hatred in suburban Atlanta, is racism. But the rest of it is just a mystery. They shut down the Florida high speed rail project (this makes me mad especially because it would've been done by now if Jeb hadn't killed it) because "taxes!!!" (i.e., fuck liberals), but they have no compunction about spending billions on constant road building. There's nothing conservative or liberal about trains, they're just a mode of transpo but damn do conservatives hate trains. It makes no sense to me except that their ideology gets its momentum from the lobbies for resource extraction industries.
posted by dis_integration at 7:42 AM on August 14, 2017 [58 favorites]
Jesus, I just read about Trump doubling down and blaming someone for stepping down from a council because of his stance on Charlottesville, but not blaming the Nazis.
If you have dual citizenship, get the fuck out. Don't think about it, do it.
posted by Yowser at 7:44 AM on August 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
If you have dual citizenship, get the fuck out. Don't think about it, do it.
posted by Yowser at 7:44 AM on August 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
Ken Frazier is black, apropo of nothing.
Protect yourself.
posted by Yowser at 7:47 AM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Protect yourself.
posted by Yowser at 7:47 AM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Also it's real hard to drive a train into a crowd of people you hate
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:52 AM on August 14, 2017 [40 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:52 AM on August 14, 2017 [40 favorites]
The funny thing about trains as a political flashpoint is that (a) I thought trains were a big libertarian thing, for reasons related somehow to Ayn Rand's love of the damn things (of course, they would never support a public rails project, mind), and (b) trains seem like they totally should be attractive to the same sort of retrogressive conservative masculinity that goes into raptures about coal mines and hammertruck factories; although there too I guess passenger trains and light rail are kind of less manly.
posted by jackbishop at 8:00 AM on August 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by jackbishop at 8:00 AM on August 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
Conservatives fucking hate trains for reasons that are not at all clear to me.
It's taxes.
In my tender youth, there was a guy in my home town who was a member of the John Birch Society who would show up at each and every town meeting, and regardless of the issue being debated, he would publically declare that he was opposed to it because whatever it was would be increasing government involvement in private enterprise, and that this was not what Thomas Jefferson intended when he founded this great nation. (Often in those exact words.)
In the late 80s/early 90s, Amtrak pointed out to the town that its "Montrealer" train went right through the town, and asked if we wanted a stop there. There was a rudimentary platform already there and everything. And at the town meeting we had to discuss this - sure enough, there was that guy arguing that Amtrak was a government inroad into private enterprise, which would lead to increased taxes and therefore we should say "no" because this was not as Thomas Jefferson intended things when he wrote the Constitution, by God! (The town ignored him and said "yes," but the station only lasted for 3 years because the only trains came through at midnight and at 3 am.)
It's taxes.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:02 AM on August 14, 2017 [13 favorites]
It's taxes.
In my tender youth, there was a guy in my home town who was a member of the John Birch Society who would show up at each and every town meeting, and regardless of the issue being debated, he would publically declare that he was opposed to it because whatever it was would be increasing government involvement in private enterprise, and that this was not what Thomas Jefferson intended when he founded this great nation. (Often in those exact words.)
In the late 80s/early 90s, Amtrak pointed out to the town that its "Montrealer" train went right through the town, and asked if we wanted a stop there. There was a rudimentary platform already there and everything. And at the town meeting we had to discuss this - sure enough, there was that guy arguing that Amtrak was a government inroad into private enterprise, which would lead to increased taxes and therefore we should say "no" because this was not as Thomas Jefferson intended things when he wrote the Constitution, by God! (The town ignored him and said "yes," but the station only lasted for 3 years because the only trains came through at midnight and at 3 am.)
It's taxes.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:02 AM on August 14, 2017 [13 favorites]
Also, railways are labour intensive natural monopolies, which tend to be breeding grounds for unionism. Thatcher hated them for the same reason.
posted by acb at 8:07 AM on August 14, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by acb at 8:07 AM on August 14, 2017 [28 favorites]
Also it turns out that Nazis are actually rubbish at making trains run on time.
posted by Artw at 8:10 AM on August 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:10 AM on August 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
There's a bunch of people who absolutely fetishize automobiles as totems of freedom and independence and strength and agency. And that's not entirely baseless- an old friend of mine learned to drive at 32 once she finally got her epilepsy meds sorted, and she would rhapsodize about being able to go places outside her home other than on foot or in buses. The problem with the car fetishists is that for a lot of them it goes beyond "cars let me do things I couldn't otherwise do" and into "my car is an extension of my mastery over the world".
IDK, I don't have the time or the organization to be as clear about my thoughts on this as I'd like.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:14 AM on August 14, 2017 [13 favorites]
IDK, I don't have the time or the organization to be as clear about my thoughts on this as I'd like.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:14 AM on August 14, 2017 [13 favorites]
b) trains seem like they totally should be attractive to the same sort of retrogressive conservative masculinity that goes into raptures about coal mines and hammertruck factories; although there too I guess passenger trains and light rail are kind of less manly.
The mentality behind this treats technology and infrastructure as status markers rather than for their underlying purpose.
To these people, since infrastructure is a status marker for the nation, not for themselves, it's unimportant, and so is the actual purpose of our roads and trains (carrying people from A to B).
This is also why they will happily pay for an over-blinged military that can't actually win wars. The F-35 and our ill-designed navy are this era's equivalent of Queen Elizabeth's Pocket Pistol (a cannon you can see in the cafeteria at Dover Castle. The thing packed an enormous punch but was too unwieldy to use in combat, so it was always a prestige weaon.)
posted by ocschwar at 8:19 AM on August 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
The mentality behind this treats technology and infrastructure as status markers rather than for their underlying purpose.
To these people, since infrastructure is a status marker for the nation, not for themselves, it's unimportant, and so is the actual purpose of our roads and trains (carrying people from A to B).
This is also why they will happily pay for an over-blinged military that can't actually win wars. The F-35 and our ill-designed navy are this era's equivalent of Queen Elizabeth's Pocket Pistol (a cannon you can see in the cafeteria at Dover Castle. The thing packed an enormous punch but was too unwieldy to use in combat, so it was always a prestige weaon.)
posted by ocschwar at 8:19 AM on August 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
The train thing was basically an excuse for Blackshirts to attack the civil service, to intimidate them from political activity, iirc
where "attack" = beat up and force to drink castor oil, not say mean things about
posted by thelonius at 8:20 AM on August 14, 2017
where "attack" = beat up and force to drink castor oil, not say mean things about
posted by thelonius at 8:20 AM on August 14, 2017
(I mean the Fascist "make the trains run on time" thing)
posted by thelonius at 8:22 AM on August 14, 2017
posted by thelonius at 8:22 AM on August 14, 2017
There are many, many reasons why trains are better than cars. They're far safer. Especially for cyclists and pedestrians. They're usually much faster, especially if you're traveling long distances. They use less energy and cause way less pollution. But trains cost the government a lot more than cars. Culturally, conservatives value individuality, yes. But the primary argument conservatives raise against trains is basic economics and neither environmental nor cultural.
Randal O'Toole is a Cato Institute fellow and self described "rail nut" who is usually quoted when conservatives want to attack federal train subsidies. His essays like to make comparisons between the federal cost per passenger spent on highways, compared to the cost per passengers on trains. (Amtrak is heavily subsidized by the government.)
This argument doesn't take into account any of the factors I mentioned above, nor the fact that passengers help subsidize their own travel costs by buying tickets. Often to a greater extent than tolls and taxes pay for roads. But the toll/ticket differences don't offset the overall cost differences.
posted by zarq at 8:23 AM on August 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
Randal O'Toole is a Cato Institute fellow and self described "rail nut" who is usually quoted when conservatives want to attack federal train subsidies. His essays like to make comparisons between the federal cost per passenger spent on highways, compared to the cost per passengers on trains. (Amtrak is heavily subsidized by the government.)
This argument doesn't take into account any of the factors I mentioned above, nor the fact that passengers help subsidize their own travel costs by buying tickets. Often to a greater extent than tolls and taxes pay for roads. But the toll/ticket differences don't offset the overall cost differences.
posted by zarq at 8:23 AM on August 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
Conservatives fucking hate trains for reasons that are not at all clear to me.
Trains were terrific when they created Robber Barons. Now, not so much.
posted by Mental Wimp at 8:31 AM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Trains were terrific when they created Robber Barons. Now, not so much.
posted by Mental Wimp at 8:31 AM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
They're usually much faster
Train service from Pittsburgh to Washington DC--a four-hour drive--takes 8 hours. The train to Philly is slightly better, at 1.5x the time it takes to drive it. (And both services leave at ass-o'clock in the morning.) It makes me weep because I LOVE TRAINS. They've priced out track improvements to make the Philadelphia route less slow but the best they can do is an improvement of like 20 minutes at the price of actual billions of dollars.
Living in the mountains sure is pretty, but sucks for vehicles that can only handle a 3% grade.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:31 AM on August 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
Train service from Pittsburgh to Washington DC--a four-hour drive--takes 8 hours. The train to Philly is slightly better, at 1.5x the time it takes to drive it. (And both services leave at ass-o'clock in the morning.) It makes me weep because I LOVE TRAINS. They've priced out track improvements to make the Philadelphia route less slow but the best they can do is an improvement of like 20 minutes at the price of actual billions of dollars.
Living in the mountains sure is pretty, but sucks for vehicles that can only handle a 3% grade.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:31 AM on August 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
trains cost the government a lot more than car
no they don't, they just look like it when you ignore oil subsidies, manufacturer bailouts, highway construction and maintenance, etc (not to mention other hidden costs like sprawl, pollution, obesity, heart disease)
posted by entropicamericana at 8:34 AM on August 14, 2017 [41 favorites]
no they don't, they just look like it when you ignore oil subsidies, manufacturer bailouts, highway construction and maintenance, etc (not to mention other hidden costs like sprawl, pollution, obesity, heart disease)
posted by entropicamericana at 8:34 AM on August 14, 2017 [41 favorites]
Yeah, cars are overall cheaper and have far more independence. Check out the awesome Maine Narrow Gauge Train Museum in Portland; according to them, the narrow gauge allowed them to go more places like the mountains, where people could vacation and escape the heat; * but, as soon as the car was invented, boom, they were done.
* accidentally typed hate. Hmmm.
posted by Melismata at 8:36 AM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
* accidentally typed hate. Hmmm.
posted by Melismata at 8:36 AM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Josh Marshall: Don't Be a Chump
The problem with the continued begging, ‘why won’t he denounce, why won’t he denounce’ is that at some point, maybe later today, President Trump will go before a podium and read off through gritted teeth a pro-forma denunciation of Nazis and it will seem to a lot of people like it means something when it doesn’t. He’s already made crystal clear where he stands here. The question is how we individually and as a country are going to deal with that fact, not how many more mulligans we’re going to give him. His neo-nazi supporters are truly over the moon that he’s steadfastly refusing to criticize them, even in the face of withering criticism and derision. They get the message. They’re ecstatic. Everyone who doesn’t see this, see that it is intentional, is getting played for chumps.posted by tonycpsu at 8:49 AM on August 14, 2017 [64 favorites]
don't buy into the myth
posted by entropicamericana at 8:39 AM on August 14 [+] [!]
That synopsis points out a hidden, but large cost to cars: traffic control. Think of the infrastructure costs and labor that goes into all that. On top, think of the cost of additional police to monitor traffic laws and (ugh!) parking regulations. You'd think the diversion of policing resources into speed traps and meter monitors would disgust the conservatives who rail about taxes and crime, but to them ideology is much more important than philosophy these days.
posted by Mental Wimp at 8:49 AM on August 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 8:39 AM on August 14 [+] [!]
That synopsis points out a hidden, but large cost to cars: traffic control. Think of the infrastructure costs and labor that goes into all that. On top, think of the cost of additional police to monitor traffic laws and (ugh!) parking regulations. You'd think the diversion of policing resources into speed traps and meter monitors would disgust the conservatives who rail about taxes and crime, but to them ideology is much more important than philosophy these days.
posted by Mental Wimp at 8:49 AM on August 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
Railing about rails is a derail.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:51 AM on August 14, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:51 AM on August 14, 2017 [27 favorites]
Well, we haven't been well-trained.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:53 AM on August 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:53 AM on August 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
This argument doesn't take into account any of the factors I mentioned above, nor the fact that passengers help subsidize their own travel costs by buying tickets. Often to a greater extent than tolls and taxes pay for roads. But the toll/ticket differences don't offset the overall cost differences.
The great economic drivers of America -- the large cities -- work because of trains. A giant number of people need to be spit into the downtown skyscrapers of New York, Boston, San Francisco, Chicago, and leave for the suburbs every evening. This happens because of trains. The streets literally cannot handle the situation if everyone drives their own car.
posted by Hypatia at 8:54 AM on August 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
The great economic drivers of America -- the large cities -- work because of trains. A giant number of people need to be spit into the downtown skyscrapers of New York, Boston, San Francisco, Chicago, and leave for the suburbs every evening. This happens because of trains. The streets literally cannot handle the situation if everyone drives their own car.
posted by Hypatia at 8:54 AM on August 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
Getting side-tracked again.
posted by Melismata at 8:54 AM on August 14, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 8:54 AM on August 14, 2017 [20 favorites]
This is too real. Conservatives fucking hate trains for reasons that are not at all clear to me
Trains are socialism in vehicle form. They assume a common direction and destination for everyone in it, and don't really allow for anyone to get there any faster than anyone else, regardless of how much richer or more deserving they are. Plus, you dont't even decide when they go! And they keep running even if you personally aren't using them. The worst sort of big-government nanny statism.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 8:55 AM on August 14, 2017 [43 favorites]
Trains are socialism in vehicle form. They assume a common direction and destination for everyone in it, and don't really allow for anyone to get there any faster than anyone else, regardless of how much richer or more deserving they are. Plus, you dont't even decide when they go! And they keep running even if you personally aren't using them. The worst sort of big-government nanny statism.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 8:55 AM on August 14, 2017 [43 favorites]
oil subsidies
Digging into the exact cost differences on this would probably be difficult. Most rail systems whose locomotives run on electricity (and not diesel) either draw power from existing power utilities or have generators that supply their needs. However, that electricity is often created with natural gas (also wind turbines and in some increasingly rare cases, crude oil.) The natural gas used is typically methane. But it's literally taken decades for electric companies to switch away from petroleum/crude-oil to produce power.
Discussing this aspect of rail transport and infrastructure can get very complicated, very quickly. There are large upfront costs to establishing an electrified infrastructure. Once it's up and running, oil-related costs are probably much lower. Transporting liquefied natural gas requires either a pipeline coupled with storage tanks or use of the petroleum infrastructure (trucks as well as storage tanks.)
We can't simply say that oil subsidies don't affect trains. We can assume it's a lot less of an impact, but it's still there.
Meanwhile, because nothing in life is as simple as it ought to be, natural gas power plants emit a lot more methane than one might expect, and methane is a greenhouse gas.
posted by zarq at 8:58 AM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Digging into the exact cost differences on this would probably be difficult. Most rail systems whose locomotives run on electricity (and not diesel) either draw power from existing power utilities or have generators that supply their needs. However, that electricity is often created with natural gas (also wind turbines and in some increasingly rare cases, crude oil.) The natural gas used is typically methane. But it's literally taken decades for electric companies to switch away from petroleum/crude-oil to produce power.
Discussing this aspect of rail transport and infrastructure can get very complicated, very quickly. There are large upfront costs to establishing an electrified infrastructure. Once it's up and running, oil-related costs are probably much lower. Transporting liquefied natural gas requires either a pipeline coupled with storage tanks or use of the petroleum infrastructure (trucks as well as storage tanks.)
We can't simply say that oil subsidies don't affect trains. We can assume it's a lot less of an impact, but it's still there.
Meanwhile, because nothing in life is as simple as it ought to be, natural gas power plants emit a lot more methane than one might expect, and methane is a greenhouse gas.
posted by zarq at 8:58 AM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
I know we are all just letting off steam, but you guys, we really gotta choo-choo-choose our battles here.
posted by ian1977 at 9:01 AM on August 14, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 9:01 AM on August 14, 2017 [19 favorites]
Richard W. Painter @RWPUSA
Jealous of Kellyanne for 15 years and eager for attention. As Delta Airlines would say, the GOP has you in a middle seat in Row 28.
Ann Coulter @AnnCoulter
Ann Coulter demands University of Minnesota fire Richard Painter over Charlottesville.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:03 AM on August 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
Jealous of Kellyanne for 15 years and eager for attention. As Delta Airlines would say, the GOP has you in a middle seat in Row 28.
Ann Coulter @AnnCoulter
Ann Coulter demands University of Minnesota fire Richard Painter over Charlottesville.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:03 AM on August 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
Conservatives fucking hate trains for reasons that are not at all clear to me.
George Will made the conservative case quite clear:
"The real reason for progressives’ passion for trains is their goal of diminishing Americans’ individualism in order to make them more amenable to collectivism. To progressives, the best thing about railroads is that people riding them are not in automobiles, which are subversive of the deference on which progressivism depends. Automobiles go hither and yon, wherever and whenever the driver desires, without timetables. Automobiles encourage people to think they—unsupervised, untutored, and unscripted—are masters of their fates. The automobile encourages people in delusions of adequacy, which make them resistant to government by experts who know what choices people should make."
So, the simple answer to your question of why conservatives hate trains: Trains are socialism.
posted by JackFlash at 9:07 AM on August 14, 2017 [26 favorites]
George Will made the conservative case quite clear:
"The real reason for progressives’ passion for trains is their goal of diminishing Americans’ individualism in order to make them more amenable to collectivism. To progressives, the best thing about railroads is that people riding them are not in automobiles, which are subversive of the deference on which progressivism depends. Automobiles go hither and yon, wherever and whenever the driver desires, without timetables. Automobiles encourage people to think they—unsupervised, untutored, and unscripted—are masters of their fates. The automobile encourages people in delusions of adequacy, which make them resistant to government by experts who know what choices people should make."
So, the simple answer to your question of why conservatives hate trains: Trains are socialism.
posted by JackFlash at 9:07 AM on August 14, 2017 [26 favorites]
Man, they must hate airplanes, then.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:09 AM on August 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:09 AM on August 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
Trains are socialism in vehicle form.
🎶 They're two, they're four, they're six, they're eight!
Shunting trucks and hauling freight,
Red, not green nor brown nor blue:
They are the socialist menace (who knew???)
All with the same role to play
At Tidmouth Sheds or far away:
Capitalist swine will flee, afraid
Of Thomas and his comrades!
posted by the quidnunc kid at 9:11 AM on August 14, 2017 [29 favorites]
🎶 They're two, they're four, they're six, they're eight!
Shunting trucks and hauling freight,
Red, not green nor brown nor blue:
They are the socialist menace (who knew???)
All with the same role to play
At Tidmouth Sheds or far away:
Capitalist swine will flee, afraid
Of Thomas and his comrades!
posted by the quidnunc kid at 9:11 AM on August 14, 2017 [29 favorites]
Nah, airplanes had pretty women on them they could (get fired for not wearing makeup and) gawk at.
posted by Melismata at 9:12 AM on August 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 9:12 AM on August 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
"The real reason for progressives’ passion for trains is their goal of diminishing Americans’ individualism in order to make them more amenable to collectivism. To progressives, the best thing about railroads is that people riding them are not in automobiles, which are subversive of the deference on which progressivism depends.
Put another way: trains remind you you live in a society, and not in a transportable bubble tailored to your own preferences and needs.
posted by Rykey at 9:13 AM on August 14, 2017 [48 favorites]
Put another way: trains remind you you live in a society, and not in a transportable bubble tailored to your own preferences and needs.
posted by Rykey at 9:13 AM on August 14, 2017 [48 favorites]
Is that what the kids are calling it these days?
You're completely right about what I'm getting at but my thoughts aren't sufficiently in order to overtly go there.
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:13 AM on August 14, 2017
You're completely right about what I'm getting at but my thoughts aren't sufficiently in order to overtly go there.
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:13 AM on August 14, 2017
The right wing's transportation preferences definitely reveal an authoritarian motive:
1. They prefer people need a license from their government just to leave their homes and fetch milk.
2. They prefer that long distance travel require the use of seat belts. (I like to use kinkier innuendo when pointing this part out.)
posted by ocschwar at 9:19 AM on August 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
1. They prefer people need a license from their government just to leave their homes and fetch milk.
2. They prefer that long distance travel require the use of seat belts. (I like to use kinkier innuendo when pointing this part out.)
posted by ocschwar at 9:19 AM on August 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
>@NorahODonnell:
Does the President today need to specifically condemn neo-Nazis and white supremacists?
AG Sessions: "Absolutely." on @CBSThisMorning
Not nearly as clear as that one word summary suggests. Sessions says Trump was clear yesterday and will/might repeat that today.
Everyday he should be asked "Are you a white supremacist today?"
posted by srboisvert at 9:19 AM on August 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Does the President today need to specifically condemn neo-Nazis and white supremacists?
AG Sessions: "Absolutely." on @CBSThisMorning
Not nearly as clear as that one word summary suggests. Sessions says Trump was clear yesterday and will/might repeat that today.
Everyday he should be asked "Are you a white supremacist today?"
posted by srboisvert at 9:19 AM on August 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
(BTW that Will quote sounds so much like my dad lol. IS YOUR WASHROOM BREEDING COLLECTIVISTS?)
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:24 AM on August 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:24 AM on August 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
The real reason for progressives’ passion for trains is their goal of diminishing Americans’ individualism in order to make them more amenable to collectivism.
...
The right wing's transportation preferences definitely reveal an authoritarian motive:
Both of these ideas are utterly bizarre.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 9:32 AM on August 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
...
The right wing's transportation preferences definitely reveal an authoritarian motive:
Both of these ideas are utterly bizarre.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 9:32 AM on August 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
eager for attention; I think eager is even more of a creepy word than moist.
posted by Oyéah at 9:35 AM on August 14, 2017
posted by Oyéah at 9:35 AM on August 14, 2017
George Will made the conservative case quite clear:
Hmmm, now I know a fraction of the pain of a 2017 Onion writer.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 9:36 AM on August 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
Hmmm, now I know a fraction of the pain of a 2017 Onion writer.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 9:36 AM on August 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
Oh yeah, and cars play into the class system. Whereas trains don't play into the most expensive mode to transport my golden ass, system.
posted by Oyéah at 9:38 AM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 9:38 AM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
The problem with the car fetishists is that for a lot of them it goes beyond "cars let me do things I couldn't otherwise do" and into "my car is an extension of my mastery over the world".
With the caveat that I live in a city on a tropical island and I recognize many human beings have winter or constant rain or live places where they're miles from anywhere...
In the last five years, I've started walking everywhere I can. This was initially primarily for health reasons but has turned into a freedom issue. I don't need to sit in traffic or look for parking or pay for gas. I can opt to ride the bus or use the new bike share. I've gotten to know my town more closely and intimately than I've ever known it before. I feel more personally invested in my community and know more about what's going on than my divining friends.
I've felt the same way taking trains on the mainland. On a train, you're part of humanity and seeing this at eye level. You don't need to worry about keeping your eye on the road so you can see the farms and forests and teeming masses. Planes put you above everyone and cars don't allow you to pay attention to the scenery if you're the driver.
Cars have some advantages (like when you want to bring home 10 months worth of toilet paper from the store) but making it easier to get from place to place without one opens up the world for millions of people. I think this is the real reason the right hates trains - it allows every single group of "those" people to potentially get to their geography more easily. Purchasing a car and paying for gas is an economic barrier to free travel. Cars are freedom for those that can afford them and cash pits for people who need them but can't afford them.
Anyhow, cheap travel is an equaliser that often makes you bond with your fellow humans and we can't have that. Bikes, trains and pedestrian safety are all things they hate. Socialism indeed.
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:43 AM on August 14, 2017 [44 favorites]
With the caveat that I live in a city on a tropical island and I recognize many human beings have winter or constant rain or live places where they're miles from anywhere...
In the last five years, I've started walking everywhere I can. This was initially primarily for health reasons but has turned into a freedom issue. I don't need to sit in traffic or look for parking or pay for gas. I can opt to ride the bus or use the new bike share. I've gotten to know my town more closely and intimately than I've ever known it before. I feel more personally invested in my community and know more about what's going on than my divining friends.
I've felt the same way taking trains on the mainland. On a train, you're part of humanity and seeing this at eye level. You don't need to worry about keeping your eye on the road so you can see the farms and forests and teeming masses. Planes put you above everyone and cars don't allow you to pay attention to the scenery if you're the driver.
Cars have some advantages (like when you want to bring home 10 months worth of toilet paper from the store) but making it easier to get from place to place without one opens up the world for millions of people. I think this is the real reason the right hates trains - it allows every single group of "those" people to potentially get to their geography more easily. Purchasing a car and paying for gas is an economic barrier to free travel. Cars are freedom for those that can afford them and cash pits for people who need them but can't afford them.
Anyhow, cheap travel is an equaliser that often makes you bond with your fellow humans and we can't have that. Bikes, trains and pedestrian safety are all things they hate. Socialism indeed.
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:43 AM on August 14, 2017 [44 favorites]
Trump is speaking again on Charlottesville. Racism solved!
[defeated emoji]
posted by prefpara at 9:44 AM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
[defeated emoji]
posted by prefpara at 9:44 AM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm trying to gauge how long this train of thought is going to be.
posted by bardophile at 9:49 AM on August 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by bardophile at 9:49 AM on August 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
Whereas trains don't play into the most expensive mode to transport my golden ass
I might be misreading this, but AMTRAK trains are expensive. One of my BFFs is afraid to fly and the train is always more expensive than flying.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:49 AM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
I might be misreading this, but AMTRAK trains are expensive. One of my BFFs is afraid to fly and the train is always more expensive than flying.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:49 AM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
‘You will have to shovel our bodies into the oven, too’: Father of Charlottesville neo-Nazi disowns him
posted by prefpara at 9:50 AM on August 14, 2017 [54 favorites]
posted by prefpara at 9:50 AM on August 14, 2017 [54 favorites]
I usually can't watch Trump but I did watch a clip of him this morning saying those words that he really didn't want to say. The inside must be really bad considering that he was finally convinced he had too. You could tell he was forced and it was oddly satisfying. Guess I'm at a point of taking what little I can get.
posted by Jalliah at 10:07 AM on August 14, 2017
Trump this morning: "Racism is evil – and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including KKK, Neo-Nazis, White Supremacists, and other hate groups are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans. We are a nation founded on the truth that all of us are created equal. We are equal in the eyes of our Creator. We are equal under the law. And we are equal under the Constitution. Those who spread violence in the name of bigotry strike at the very core of America."
posted by christopherious at 10:07 AM on August 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by christopherious at 10:07 AM on August 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
After days of pressure, U.S. President admits racism is bad.
posted by AndrewInDC at 10:07 AM on August 14, 2017 [109 favorites]
posted by AndrewInDC at 10:07 AM on August 14, 2017 [109 favorites]
but AMTRAK trains are expensive
You will have to be more specific on routes. Round trip AMTRAK fare NYC to DC is $100. Air fare is $150.
AMTRAK carries you from city center to city center. For air, add cost and time of travel to and from outlying airports.
posted by JackFlash at 10:08 AM on August 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
You will have to be more specific on routes. Round trip AMTRAK fare NYC to DC is $100. Air fare is $150.
AMTRAK carries you from city center to city center. For air, add cost and time of travel to and from outlying airports.
posted by JackFlash at 10:08 AM on August 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
You could tell he was forced and it was oddly satisfying. Guess I'm at a point of taking what little I can get.
Yep. He's already revealed/confirmed what and who he is. This doesn't change that. What it does is demonstrate our ability to still enforce norms, even against the highest position in the land.
posted by chris24 at 10:15 AM on August 14, 2017 [26 favorites]
Yep. He's already revealed/confirmed what and who he is. This doesn't change that. What it does is demonstrate our ability to still enforce norms, even against the highest position in the land.
posted by chris24 at 10:15 AM on August 14, 2017 [26 favorites]
For what it's worth, Trump is at his lowest approval rating ever in Gallup's daily poll today. Down to 34%. C'mon, we can get to 27% surely! Or lower, even!
posted by yasaman at 10:15 AM on August 14, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by yasaman at 10:15 AM on August 14, 2017 [20 favorites]
For what it's worth, Trump is at his lowest approval rating ever in Gallup's daily poll today. Down to 34%.
And this is with only one of the days in the 3 day rolling average being post-NaziGate.
posted by chris24 at 10:18 AM on August 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
And this is with only one of the days in the 3 day rolling average being post-NaziGate.
posted by chris24 at 10:18 AM on August 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Turns out we've lowered the bar so low that the President of the United States saying racism is evil is literally worthy of a breaking news alert.
posted by zachlipton at 10:18 AM on August 14, 2017 [63 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 10:18 AM on August 14, 2017 [63 favorites]
Yep. He's already revealed/confirmed what and who he is. This doesn't change that. What it does is demonstrate our ability to still enforce norms, even against the highest position in the land.
Yeah. If the so-called "alt-right" was really winning, Trump wouldn't have to say another word.
Of course, his grudging capitulation also shows how badly the so-called "liberal media" has failed to enforce so many other norms with him.
posted by Gelatin at 10:19 AM on August 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yeah. If the so-called "alt-right" was really winning, Trump wouldn't have to say another word.
Of course, his grudging capitulation also shows how badly the so-called "liberal media" has failed to enforce so many other norms with him.
posted by Gelatin at 10:19 AM on August 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
About Those Pictures
while it is largely unfair to impute guilt by association to particular GOP officeholders who stood for a few moments for a photo, it is quite fair to see these as examples that neo-nazi and white supremacist activists commonly organize within and are welcomed within the GOP.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:22 AM on August 14, 2017 [24 favorites]
while it is largely unfair to impute guilt by association to particular GOP officeholders who stood for a few moments for a photo, it is quite fair to see these as examples that neo-nazi and white supremacist activists commonly organize within and are welcomed within the GOP.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:22 AM on August 14, 2017 [24 favorites]
Turns out we've lowered the bar so low that the President of the United States saying racism is evil is literally worthy of a breaking news alert.
Was there a reverse angle camera to show whether his fingers were crossed?
posted by JackFlash at 10:22 AM on August 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
Was there a reverse angle camera to show whether his fingers were crossed?
posted by JackFlash at 10:22 AM on August 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
I more or less wrote this on Twitter just now but - I don't care if he really believes what he just said or read from his script. I care that the online Nazis hate what he just said and won't be quite so emboldened (some damage has already been done from the non-response). I care that the average Joe Republican who wasn't really paying attention and didn't hear a condemnation, and may have assumed that the 'both sides' were to blame narrative was true, and may have assumed that these weren't really nazis and that's just the leftist media being hyperbolic, can now hear their President condemn the white nationalists and racists who were to blame. I care that the pressure on the administration is having an effect and I care that we keep it up.
posted by TwoWordReview at 10:25 AM on August 14, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by TwoWordReview at 10:25 AM on August 14, 2017 [20 favorites]
I care about the fact that he may have just cut five to ten percent off his approval ratings by making Nazis and white supremacists mad at him. (I know, you'll say more than that, but some will hang with him, believing it was just a wink.)
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 10:44 AM on August 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 10:44 AM on August 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Anyhow, cheap travel is an equaliser that often makes you bond with your fellow humans and we can't have that. Bikes, trains and pedestrian safety are all things they hate. Socialism indeed.
Retired political cartoonist Chuck Asay was a master of "you're just supposed to understand that this thing I've drawn is bad without me telling you", and he'd always draw people on bikes to indicate that a particular panel took place in a world where the government had destroyed human freedom.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:45 AM on August 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
Retired political cartoonist Chuck Asay was a master of "you're just supposed to understand that this thing I've drawn is bad without me telling you", and he'd always draw people on bikes to indicate that a particular panel took place in a world where the government had destroyed human freedom.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:45 AM on August 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
I understand the urge to look for silver linings here, but if the alt-right isn't winning, they're sure as shit not losing. Torch-carrying white supremacists were necessary but not sufficient for Trump to win -- he was carried across the finish line by the casual bigotry of so-called "Average Joe Republicans" who could look past the scapegoating and demonization as long as it would give them a tax cut.
All today's statement reflects is that Trump believes he can have it both ways, and I see no reason to believe that he's wrong. He checks the "racism bad" box, the so-called "average Joes" hear what they want to hear, and the Republican coalition continues to march in lockstep. As for how it will be received by the Nazis, well, I think the Daily Stormer post that was going around yesterday takes care of that -- they know he's just doing what he has to do, and they seem fine with a little bit of messaging discipline as long as they know they can trust their guy. And they do.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:47 AM on August 14, 2017 [27 favorites]
All today's statement reflects is that Trump believes he can have it both ways, and I see no reason to believe that he's wrong. He checks the "racism bad" box, the so-called "average Joes" hear what they want to hear, and the Republican coalition continues to march in lockstep. As for how it will be received by the Nazis, well, I think the Daily Stormer post that was going around yesterday takes care of that -- they know he's just doing what he has to do, and they seem fine with a little bit of messaging discipline as long as they know they can trust their guy. And they do.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:47 AM on August 14, 2017 [27 favorites]
One step forward, one step back on the whole "racism is evil" thing: Fox News–Trump 'seriously considering' a pardon for ex-Sheriff Joe Arpaio.
The weirdest part is that the story is attributed to "a conversation with Fox News at his club in Bedminster, N.J." It's unclear who was in this conversation or why or whether they plan to do any actual reporting on it or WTF Fox News?
posted by zachlipton at 10:49 AM on August 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
The weirdest part is that the story is attributed to "a conversation with Fox News at his club in Bedminster, N.J." It's unclear who was in this conversation or why or whether they plan to do any actual reporting on it or WTF Fox News?
posted by zachlipton at 10:49 AM on August 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
I wish I could be a fly on the wall when some poor staffer has to tell Trump that pardons don't work on contempt of court.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:51 AM on August 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:51 AM on August 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
I care that the online Nazis hate what he just said and won't be quite so emboldened (some damage has already been done from the non-response).
If I thought this was true, I'd agree with you. But I suspect the reaction from the Nazis is more like, "Meh, he just said that because They forced him to so they could placate the normies." Like the rest of us, they know what he really thinks.
On preview, totally agree with tonycpsu.
posted by holborne at 10:52 AM on August 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
If I thought this was true, I'd agree with you. But I suspect the reaction from the Nazis is more like, "Meh, he just said that because They forced him to so they could placate the normies." Like the rest of us, they know what he really thinks.
On preview, totally agree with tonycpsu.
posted by holborne at 10:52 AM on August 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
It looks like the President can pardon criminal contempt, which is what Arpaio was convicted of. Civil contempt is a different matter, to say nothing of the contempt many of us have for him in our hearts.
posted by zachlipton at 10:56 AM on August 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 10:56 AM on August 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
After days of pressure, U.S. President admits racism is bad.
After days of pressure, U.S. President looks around in bewilderment and says yet again, "why is everybody picking on me? All I want to do is bask in the glory of the prize, I didn't know it would be this hard."
posted by Melismata at 10:58 AM on August 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
After days of pressure, U.S. President looks around in bewilderment and says yet again, "why is everybody picking on me? All I want to do is bask in the glory of the prize, I didn't know it would be this hard."
posted by Melismata at 10:58 AM on August 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
From WaPo's Daily 202: Evidence of climate change abounds amid extreme weather in the Pacific Northwest, specifically, this:
“Local officials across the United States worry that it is becoming more difficult to secure help from FEMA for all sorts of natural disasters. Since January, members of Congress and state officials have protested initial FEMA denials following a tornado outbreak in Louisiana, flooding in North Carolina, and snowstorms in Pennsylvania and Oregon. … The Trump administration has been hinting that it might limit federal spending on disaster relief and preparation, and FEMA is considering whether to draft regulations to shift more responsibility for rebuilding to the states.”posted by ZeusHumms at 10:58 AM on August 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
Was Arpaio's conviction in federal court? I thought pardons didn't work on state court convictions.
posted by msalt at 11:04 AM on August 14, 2017
posted by msalt at 11:04 AM on August 14, 2017
I don't think it's coincidence that the story about the Arpaio pardon is coming out (reported by Fox News -- imagine that) at more or less the exact same time as Trump's statement "condemning" white supremacists. The Arpaio thing is pure chum for the base.
posted by holborne at 11:04 AM on August 14, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by holborne at 11:04 AM on August 14, 2017 [19 favorites]
Anyhow, cheap travel is an equaliser that often makes you bond with your fellow humans and we can't have that. Bikes, trains and pedestrian safety are all things they hate. Socialism indeed.
Also - the building of the highway system was extremely racist: Top infrastructure official explains how America used highways to destroy black neighborhoods:
posted by melissasaurus at 11:05 AM on August 14, 2017 [22 favorites]
Also - the building of the highway system was extremely racist: Top infrastructure official explains how America used highways to destroy black neighborhoods:
In the first 20 years of the federal interstate system alone, Foxx said, highway construction displaced 475,000 families and over a million Americans. Most of them were low-income people of color in urban cores.Robert Moses did the same in NYC:
As the Department of Transportation dealt with its own obstacles, Moses gained enough power to charge ahead in building 13 expressways throughout the five boroughs. The impact that they had on the surrounding neighborhoods was swift, and occasionally devastating; the Cross Bronx Expressway, for example, cut off low-income and immigrant communities and devastated property values for residents in those areas.Maybe the train-haters just like destroying black communities (one of the few consistent positions right-wing folks seem to hold). They certainly aren't doing anything to demonstrate that's not the case.
posted by melissasaurus at 11:05 AM on August 14, 2017 [22 favorites]
Was Arpaio's conviction in federal court? I thought pardons didn't work on state court convictions.
Indeed. The conviction was in the United States District Court for the District of Arizona.
posted by holborne at 11:06 AM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Indeed. The conviction was in the United States District Court for the District of Arizona.
posted by holborne at 11:06 AM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
FEMA is considering whether to draft regulations to shift more responsibility for rebuilding to the states
This statement could not be uttered with a straight face by anyone even remotely familiar with how the current disaster recovery programs are run. Its already an almost entirely state-run system where all the feds do is provide the money and tell you all the ways you didn't spend it correctly (after the fact, when it comes to figuring out how to structure compliant programs up front they are of basically no help).
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 11:10 AM on August 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
This statement could not be uttered with a straight face by anyone even remotely familiar with how the current disaster recovery programs are run. Its already an almost entirely state-run system where all the feds do is provide the money and tell you all the ways you didn't spend it correctly (after the fact, when it comes to figuring out how to structure compliant programs up front they are of basically no help).
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 11:10 AM on August 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
Just a reminder that, given three official chances, Donald Trump could not find any of his own words to defend his daughter, son-in-law, and grandchildren.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:10 AM on August 14, 2017 [33 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 11:10 AM on August 14, 2017 [33 favorites]
So basically, in order to be allowed to condemn the Nazis, even insincerely, to avoid getting branded a "race traitor" with the violence directed against him that implies, Trump had to exchange a white supremacist prisoner to buy the Nazis off. It's like we're in the middle of a secret internal war with an enemy whose name we dare not speak. Ugh.
posted by saulgoodman at 11:20 AM on August 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by saulgoodman at 11:20 AM on August 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
Its already an almost entirely state-run system where all the feds do is provide the money
That would be the "responsibility" they want to shift to the states.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:20 AM on August 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
That would be the "responsibility" they want to shift to the states.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:20 AM on August 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
NYT: How a Conservative TV Giant Is Ridding Itself of Regulation. A detailed look at how the chairman of Sinclair Broadcasting has worked with FCC Chair Ajit Pai to ease media ownership restrictions.
posted by zachlipton at 11:25 AM on August 14, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:25 AM on August 14, 2017 [19 favorites]
I'm kind of enjoying the irony that all of David Duke's plastic surgery and botox prevents any show of anger.
(That's good.)
posted by Room 641-A at 11:26 AM on August 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
(That's good.)
posted by Room 641-A at 11:26 AM on August 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
All today's statement reflects is that Trump believes he can have it both ways, and I see no reason to believe that he's wrong. He checks the "racism bad" box, the so-called "average Joes" hear what they want to hear, and the Republican coalition continues to march in lockstep.
Not only "average Joes," but also dishonest apologists like David Brooks. I would like to be pleasantly surprised this Friday by a full-throated condemnation on NPR of Trump's embrace of racism by Brooks (or even by Dionne, for that matter), but I am not expecting it.
posted by Gelatin at 11:38 AM on August 14, 2017
Not only "average Joes," but also dishonest apologists like David Brooks. I would like to be pleasantly surprised this Friday by a full-throated condemnation on NPR of Trump's embrace of racism by Brooks (or even by Dionne, for that matter), but I am not expecting it.
posted by Gelatin at 11:38 AM on August 14, 2017
The Trump administration is giving insurance companies an extra three weeks to decide whether to offer insurance plans through the Affordable Care Act markets, and how much to charge, while a White House spokesman says Trump is "working with his staff and his Cabinet to consider the issues raised by the CSR payments" -- like if he will support continuing to pay what he has called "bailouts." (NPR, Aug. 14, 2017)
posted by filthy light thief at 11:50 AM on August 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by filthy light thief at 11:50 AM on August 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm kind of enjoying the irony that all of David Duke's plastic surgery and botox prevents any show of anger.
He's (amazingly) the less-funny Carrot Top.
posted by rc3spencer at 11:50 AM on August 14, 2017
He's (amazingly) the less-funny Carrot Top.
posted by rc3spencer at 11:50 AM on August 14, 2017
Another impact to climate change science: the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. Headquartered in Geneva, under the aegis of the United Nations, operates on a $4.3 million dollar annual budget, of which the U.S. paid almost $2 million -- but that ended Trump. To be fair, the GOP has been trying to not pay this in the past, but now they actually can stop paying for this. (Nick Stockton for Wired, Aug. 11, 2017)
IPCC has some savings, but this still this could be really bad for the panel. (Also, I'm not sure if that's really a $4.3 million budget, or how much was given for this project, per this weirdly formatted Climate Change News article from May 12, 2017.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:05 PM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
IPCC has some savings, but this still this could be really bad for the panel. (Also, I'm not sure if that's really a $4.3 million budget, or how much was given for this project, per this weirdly formatted Climate Change News article from May 12, 2017.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:05 PM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Let's Kickstart that panel and get some real money in there.
posted by Autumnheart at 12:06 PM on August 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Autumnheart at 12:06 PM on August 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
Matthew Yglesias, Vox: The Trump Tango is tiresome and pointless — A half-hearted disavowal way too late is something we’ve seen before.
There are certainly subjects on which the dictum “better late than never” applies. And a president who actually came around on the issue of white nationalism would, indeed, be preferable to one who stubbornly stuck to his guns.posted by tonycpsu at 12:10 PM on August 14, 2017 [27 favorites]
But the Trump Tango never involves an apology, a change of heart, or even a good-faith effort to pretend to be sorry.
Rather than remorse, it offers his allies and supporters an excuse. It would be untenable, for example, for the CEOs of consumer-facing companies to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with a president who refuses to condemn white supremacists no matter how hungry they are for corporate tax cuts. By issuing a statement — no matter how late, reluctant, or obviously fake — Trump gives corporate America the excuse it needs to pretend to believe him. [...]
The instinct to criticize Trump for late or inadequate responses is, on some level, pointless and self-defeating. He’s proven time and again that, given enough focus, he’s perfectly willing to execute the tango. But pressing him to do it only serves to let his collaborators off the hook. Rich, powerful septuagenarians who’ve defied the conventional wisdom and succeeded don’t change, and it’s time to stop waiting for Donald Trump.
NYT Dealbook: Merck’s C.E.O. Took a Stand. What About Other Executives?
posted by zachlipton at 12:20 PM on August 14, 2017 [76 favorites]
When I asked one chief executive Monday morning why he had remained publicly silent, he told me: “Just look at what he did to Ken. I’m not sticking my head up.” Which, of course, is the reason he said I could not quote him by name.These people run multi-billion dollar companies and they're terrified of a damm tweet from a guy with a 34% approval rating.
posted by zachlipton at 12:20 PM on August 14, 2017 [76 favorites]
...and in what could be considered interesting timing, before Trump specifically shamed Nazis, his team aired a re-election ad that focuses upon Trump's enemies who don't want him to succeed.
It's mind-blowing that he while he later says Americans need to learn to love one another, he approves an ad discussing his ENEMIES. His American enemies who won't let him do his job.
That not ONE SINGLE PERSON IN THE TRUMPWORLD thought, "This may not be the best time to be divisive," is staggering. And of course, the idiocy of running re-election ads EIGHT MONTHS INTO HIS PRESIDENCY.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 12:25 PM on August 14, 2017 [25 favorites]
It's mind-blowing that he while he later says Americans need to learn to love one another, he approves an ad discussing his ENEMIES. His American enemies who won't let him do his job.
That not ONE SINGLE PERSON IN THE TRUMPWORLD thought, "This may not be the best time to be divisive," is staggering. And of course, the idiocy of running re-election ads EIGHT MONTHS INTO HIS PRESIDENCY.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 12:25 PM on August 14, 2017 [25 favorites]
These people run multi-billion dollar companies and they're terrified of a damm tweet from a guy with a 34% approval rating.
Well, yeah. Duh. That's how it works.
posted by Melismata at 12:25 PM on August 14, 2017
Well, yeah. Duh. That's how it works.
posted by Melismata at 12:25 PM on August 14, 2017
Just look at what he did to Ken. I’m not sticking my head up.
Just look what he did to Ken? What the fuck was so bad about what he did to Ken? A mean Tweet that was widely derided and will have precisely zero real-world effect on the guy's bottom line, personal wealth, or anything else? That's what this other guy is afraid of? Lord Jesus, I fucking hate people sometimes.
posted by holborne at 12:29 PM on August 14, 2017 [57 favorites]
Just look what he did to Ken? What the fuck was so bad about what he did to Ken? A mean Tweet that was widely derided and will have precisely zero real-world effect on the guy's bottom line, personal wealth, or anything else? That's what this other guy is afraid of? Lord Jesus, I fucking hate people sometimes.
posted by holborne at 12:29 PM on August 14, 2017 [57 favorites]
“Just look at what he did to Ken. I’m not sticking my head up.”
What do you mean 'what he did to Ken?' Merck's stock is up half a percent today so far. I don't think he 'did' much of anything. The Trump administration has only been effective at harming already vulnerable groups, not billion dollar corporations. If that CEO thinks Trump is going to convince the Republicans to support Medicare negotiating prescription drug prices then he's as stupid as he is cowardly.
posted by jedicus at 12:30 PM on August 14, 2017 [28 favorites]
What do you mean 'what he did to Ken?' Merck's stock is up half a percent today so far. I don't think he 'did' much of anything. The Trump administration has only been effective at harming already vulnerable groups, not billion dollar corporations. If that CEO thinks Trump is going to convince the Republicans to support Medicare negotiating prescription drug prices then he's as stupid as he is cowardly.
posted by jedicus at 12:30 PM on August 14, 2017 [28 favorites]
Doxxed White Supremacist Caught Red-Handed With Torch at Charlottesville Wants to Put That Genie Back in the Bottle
posted by kirkaracha at 1:12 PM on August 14, 2017 [26 favorites]
“I did not expect the photo to be shared as much as it was,” Cvjetanovic said. “I understand the photo has a very negative connotation. But I hope that the people sharing the photo are willing to listen that I’m not the angry racist they see in that photo.”An excellent way to keep people from thinking you're a racist Nazi fuck is to not act like a racist Nazi fuck.
Cvjetanovic then referenced the 14 words, an infamous neo-Nazi motto, while continuing to insist he’s not “hateful.”
posted by kirkaracha at 1:12 PM on August 14, 2017 [26 favorites]
NYT Dealbook: Merck’s C.E.O. Took a Stand. What About Other Executives?
When I asked one chief executive Monday morning why he had remained publicly silent, he told me: “Just look at what he did to Ken. I’m not sticking my head up.” Which, of course, is the reason he said I could not quote him by name.
These people run multi-billion dollar companies and they're terrified of a damm tweet from a guy with a 34% approval rating.
They're terrified that he can lash out at them on twitter and it'll result in problems from his army of assclowns. Or more indirectly, if he's sufficiently angry with them that it stays in his mind past five minutes, that he'll use government machinery to harm their organization.
I honestly was wondering this morning how long until we see this chain of events:
posted by phearlez at 1:12 PM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
When I asked one chief executive Monday morning why he had remained publicly silent, he told me: “Just look at what he did to Ken. I’m not sticking my head up.” Which, of course, is the reason he said I could not quote him by name.
These people run multi-billion dollar companies and they're terrified of a damm tweet from a guy with a 34% approval rating.
They're terrified that he can lash out at them on twitter and it'll result in problems from his army of assclowns. Or more indirectly, if he's sufficiently angry with them that it stays in his mind past five minutes, that he'll use government machinery to harm their organization.
I honestly was wondering this morning how long until we see this chain of events:
- CEO defies Trump
- Trump lashes out and harms the business
- Board of Directors removes CEO as a result
posted by phearlez at 1:12 PM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
If that CEO thinks Trump is going to convince the Republicans to support Medicare negotiating prescription drug prices then he's as stupid as he is cowardly.
Not only that, but these CEOs are not in any danger, physical or otherwise. Sticking your head up for what, exactly? A sharp rebuke from Twitter? These cowards are never going to want for material or survival needs many lifetimes over. They could end participation in public life right this instant and would still be better off than 99% of the world, and that's not even what's being asked of them. It's just to show the tiniest bit of integrity, which is apparently just... too... scawy!
posted by orbit-3 at 1:17 PM on August 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
Not only that, but these CEOs are not in any danger, physical or otherwise. Sticking your head up for what, exactly? A sharp rebuke from Twitter? These cowards are never going to want for material or survival needs many lifetimes over. They could end participation in public life right this instant and would still be better off than 99% of the world, and that's not even what's being asked of them. It's just to show the tiniest bit of integrity, which is apparently just... too... scawy!
posted by orbit-3 at 1:17 PM on August 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
An excellent way to keep people from thinking you're a racist Nazi fuck is to not act like a racist Nazi fuck.
It's been established that part of their strategy is to get media attention, and use it to amplify their core message. The idea is to attract new adherents, who hear stuff like
Also, I could be totally wrong on this, but is it "doxxing" if you are in public as a rally? Isn't doxxing revealing someone's online anonymous persona?
posted by cell divide at 1:21 PM on August 14, 2017 [21 favorites]
It's been established that part of their strategy is to get media attention, and use it to amplify their core message. The idea is to attract new adherents, who hear stuff like
“As a white nationalist, I care for all people,” Cvjetanovic said. “We all deserve a future for our children and for our culture. White nationalists aren’t all hateful; we just want to preserve what we have.”and think it sounds reasonable, or at least better than "Kill all the _______", which is the real message. The media is falling into a trap by allowing these people to be quoted and sound reasonable.
Also, I could be totally wrong on this, but is it "doxxing" if you are in public as a rally? Isn't doxxing revealing someone's online anonymous persona?
posted by cell divide at 1:21 PM on August 14, 2017 [21 favorites]
The media is falling into a trap
THIS THIS THIS everywhere all the time
posted by Melismata at 1:22 PM on August 14, 2017 [14 favorites]
THIS THIS THIS everywhere all the time
posted by Melismata at 1:22 PM on August 14, 2017 [14 favorites]
Still catching up with that thread, and it's a bit of a derail, but I knew a couple different dudes, neither white, who worked at different branches of Top Dog back in the day.
They weren't publicly insane at that point; I remember vague grumblings but they were generally regarded as an ok place to work, although the late night rush at the one just off Telegraph was pretty crazy.
posted by aspersioncast at 1:24 PM on August 14, 2017
They weren't publicly insane at that point; I remember vague grumblings but they were generally regarded as an ok place to work, although the late night rush at the one just off Telegraph was pretty crazy.
posted by aspersioncast at 1:24 PM on August 14, 2017
The media is falling into a trap by allowing these people to be quoted and sound reasonable.
Indeed, they're giving Richard Spencer the honor of a press conference at this very moment. Why? He's not lacking for ways to communicate. The press doesn't have to show up at his command.
posted by zachlipton at 1:26 PM on August 14, 2017 [20 favorites]
Indeed, they're giving Richard Spencer the honor of a press conference at this very moment. Why? He's not lacking for ways to communicate. The press doesn't have to show up at his command.
posted by zachlipton at 1:26 PM on August 14, 2017 [20 favorites]
It's been established that part of their strategy is to get media attention, and use it to amplify their core message. The idea is to attract new adherents, who hear stuff like
“As a white nationalist, I care for all people,” Cvjetanovic said. “We all deserve a future for our children and for our culture. White nationalists aren’t all hateful; we just want to preserve what we have.”
Given how rabid otherwise sensible-seeming folks can get about the question of privilege? This is not the stupidest tack for them to take. If you refuse to accept that some of the things they "have" are unjust then you are primed to believe they are actually being deprived something they should get to keep.
posted by phearlez at 1:30 PM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
“As a white nationalist, I care for all people,” Cvjetanovic said. “We all deserve a future for our children and for our culture. White nationalists aren’t all hateful; we just want to preserve what we have.”
Given how rabid otherwise sensible-seeming folks can get about the question of privilege? This is not the stupidest tack for them to take. If you refuse to accept that some of the things they "have" are unjust then you are primed to believe they are actually being deprived something they should get to keep.
posted by phearlez at 1:30 PM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
The answer to CEO timidity is to scare them even more. It's hard to do that if you're not a psychopathic president, but easier if there are a lot of you. Bur I wouldn't waste much time trying, unless you have a good idea on how to actually hit their bottom line.
'Acting with integrity' is bred out of most CEOs by the time they get to that position, assuming it was ever part of their modus operandi in the first place - which, given that they've played the game so well so far, is doubtful. If you want to judge the level to which these people are capable of shame, look at their pay.
which means I am now feeling increased respect for a lawyer who's CEO of a pharmaceutical giant. 2017, you scamp.
posted by Devonian at 1:33 PM on August 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
'Acting with integrity' is bred out of most CEOs by the time they get to that position, assuming it was ever part of their modus operandi in the first place - which, given that they've played the game so well so far, is doubtful. If you want to judge the level to which these people are capable of shame, look at their pay.
which means I am now feeling increased respect for a lawyer who's CEO of a pharmaceutical giant. 2017, you scamp.
posted by Devonian at 1:33 PM on August 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
“As a white nationalist, I care for all people,” Cvjetanovic said. “We all deserve a future for our children and for our culture. White nationalists aren’t all hateful; we just want to preserve what we have.”
Yes, you do. You want to preserve a system where you are privileged over everyone else; where your children's future is secure, but the future for everyone else is precarious; where your culture is the only one we see - as has been the case for hundreds of years. Of course you want to preserve it.
This statement is infuriating in its insularity, smugness, and un-examined privilege.
posted by nubs at 1:33 PM on August 14, 2017 [22 favorites]
Yes, you do. You want to preserve a system where you are privileged over everyone else; where your children's future is secure, but the future for everyone else is precarious; where your culture is the only one we see - as has been the case for hundreds of years. Of course you want to preserve it.
This statement is infuriating in its insularity, smugness, and un-examined privilege.
posted by nubs at 1:33 PM on August 14, 2017 [22 favorites]
“As a white nationalist, I care for all people,” Cvjetanovic said.
And yet your comrades just ran a bunch of people over in a car. Fuck you buddy, we see you.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:36 PM on August 14, 2017 [16 favorites]
And yet your comrades just ran a bunch of people over in a car. Fuck you buddy, we see you.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:36 PM on August 14, 2017 [16 favorites]
“As a white nationalist, I care for all people,” Cvjetanovic said. “We all deserve a future for our children and for our culture. White nationalists aren’t all hateful; we just want to preserve what we have.”
Says the guy who if alive in Hitler's Germany would have been sent to the gas chambers as an Untermensch.
People are so fucking stupid.
posted by Talez at 1:37 PM on August 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
Says the guy who if alive in Hitler's Germany would have been sent to the gas chambers as an Untermensch.
People are so fucking stupid.
posted by Talez at 1:37 PM on August 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
Also, I could be totally wrong on this, but is it "doxxing" if you are in public as a rally? Isn't doxxing revealing someone's online anonymous persona?
Like "trolling," "doxxing" is used by different people to mean somewhat different things. There's no universally agreed upon definition.
It is obfuscatory to say "Doxxing [implying one definition] is always bad. Therefore it is wrong to doxx [implying a different definition] this person." The obfuscation may be accidental or intentional.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 1:45 PM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Like "trolling," "doxxing" is used by different people to mean somewhat different things. There's no universally agreed upon definition.
It is obfuscatory to say "Doxxing [implying one definition] is always bad. Therefore it is wrong to doxx [implying a different definition] this person." The obfuscation may be accidental or intentional.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 1:45 PM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
"White nationalists aren't hateful" seems to have gained very little traction this weekend, thankfully.
posted by Artw at 1:52 PM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 1:52 PM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Man, they must hate airplanes, then.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:09 AM on August 14 [7 favorites +]
I can't speak about American conservatives, but apparently Canadian ones have a super-duper hatred for planes. And an even worse opinion of aerospace.
I can say that because I just happened to read a screed today from the Canadian Taxpayers Federation explaining exactly those positions. Apparently both industries are a giant boondoggle that sucks government money faster than a parched traveller at a desert waterhole. Actually, they call it a "giant pyramid scheme."
So, yeah, if trains are bad, planes are worse.
posted by sardonyx at 1:55 PM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:09 AM on August 14 [7 favorites +]
I can't speak about American conservatives, but apparently Canadian ones have a super-duper hatred for planes. And an even worse opinion of aerospace.
I can say that because I just happened to read a screed today from the Canadian Taxpayers Federation explaining exactly those positions. Apparently both industries are a giant boondoggle that sucks government money faster than a parched traveller at a desert waterhole. Actually, they call it a "giant pyramid scheme."
So, yeah, if trains are bad, planes are worse.
posted by sardonyx at 1:55 PM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
This is not the stupidest tack for them to take.
Not the stupidest, perhaps, but pretty bad.
posted by rhizome at 1:58 PM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Not the stupidest, perhaps, but pretty bad.
posted by rhizome at 1:58 PM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
There's nothing remotely about that inconsistent with the "the duty of the company is to the shareholders" statement that is used to defend all sorts of egregious shit. Can anyone here claim with a straight face that they can't imagine one of those sorts saying they can't afford to alienate 37% of the population?
Oh, I would LOVE to see a Board of Directors of a publicly traded company try to remove a CEO because he stood up against white supremacy. I would LOVE to see that. Business judgment rule notwithstanding, the annual meeting that year would be...quite something.
posted by holborne at 2:02 PM on August 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
Oh, I would LOVE to see a Board of Directors of a publicly traded company try to remove a CEO because he stood up against white supremacy. I would LOVE to see that. Business judgment rule notwithstanding, the annual meeting that year would be...quite something.
posted by holborne at 2:02 PM on August 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
It's strange seeing Nora Reed on Twitter. Wave if you see this from the Twitterverse.
(Also, fuck you pay her Gizmodo)
posted by Yowser at 2:07 PM on August 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
(Also, fuck you pay her Gizmodo)
posted by Yowser at 2:07 PM on August 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
Yes, you do. You want to preserve a system where you are privileged over everyone else; where your children's future is secure, but the future for everyone else is precarious; where your culture is the only one we see - as has been the case for hundreds of years. Of course you want to preserve it.
A dear friend posted a picture of a slice of pie on her Facebook with the caption, "Rights are not a pie!" I wish I could get this across to everyone. White supremacists feel that rights and privileges are a pie and they want that whole pie for themselves.
I wish I could wave a magic wand and banish zero-sum thinking from everyone's brain.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 2:07 PM on August 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
A dear friend posted a picture of a slice of pie on her Facebook with the caption, "Rights are not a pie!" I wish I could get this across to everyone. White supremacists feel that rights and privileges are a pie and they want that whole pie for themselves.
I wish I could wave a magic wand and banish zero-sum thinking from everyone's brain.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 2:07 PM on August 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
So, yeah, if trains are bad, planes are worse.
Trains, Planes,and not Automobiles
posted by nubs at 2:11 PM on August 14, 2017
Trains, Planes,
posted by nubs at 2:11 PM on August 14, 2017
I mean, pay them. (shit)
posted by Yowser at 2:13 PM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Yowser at 2:13 PM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Steinmetz detained in Israel in money-laundering probe.
posted by cell divide at 2:13 PM on August 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
It was the second time Steinmetz had been detained by Israeli authorities since December, when he was placed under house arrest as part of a corruption probe involving mining deals in the African nation of Guinea.Relevant here possibly, because Steinmetz and Kushner families have been linked in many business deals, although the Kushners contend they have only worked with the nephew of the Steinmetz who has been detained today.
Besides the Guinea investigation, the Israeli billionaire was charged in Romania last year with forming an organised criminal group and money laundering in a property-related case that cost the state $145 million.
posted by cell divide at 2:13 PM on August 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
have a super-duper hatred for planes. And an even worse opinion of aerospace.
I can say that because I just happened to read a screed today from the Canadian Taxpayers Federation explaining exactly those positions. Apparently both industries are a giant boondoggle that sucks government money faster than a parched traveller at a desert waterhole. Actually, they call it a "giant pyramid scheme."
Let me guess: they hate Bombardier?
posted by ocschwar at 2:22 PM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
I can say that because I just happened to read a screed today from the Canadian Taxpayers Federation explaining exactly those positions. Apparently both industries are a giant boondoggle that sucks government money faster than a parched traveller at a desert waterhole. Actually, they call it a "giant pyramid scheme."
Let me guess: they hate Bombardier?
posted by ocschwar at 2:22 PM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Maybe the train-haters just like destroying black communities (one of the few consistent positions right-wing folks seem to hold). They certainly aren't doing anything to demonstrate that's not the case.
Trains are constrained by physics. They can only tolerate so much curvature and so much slope. That in turn means Newtonian mechanics decides who gets eminent-domained, while with highways, you can snake around and pick your victims.
posted by ocschwar at 2:37 PM on August 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
Trains are constrained by physics. They can only tolerate so much curvature and so much slope. That in turn means Newtonian mechanics decides who gets eminent-domained, while with highways, you can snake around and pick your victims.
posted by ocschwar at 2:37 PM on August 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
"White nationalists aren't hateful" seems to have gained very little traction this weekend, thankfully."
#notallnazis
posted by horsewithnoname at 2:38 PM on August 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
#notallnazis
posted by horsewithnoname at 2:38 PM on August 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Relevant here possibly, because Steinmetz and Kushner families have been linked in many business deals, although the Kushners contend they have only worked with the nephew of the Steinmetz who has been detained today.
To listen to my Israeli friends, there's nothing but dodgy dealings among the families who happen to own most of the land in the country. it's an 'Everyone knows' that if any of them got properly investigated, the whole fabric would fall apart in short order.
posted by Devonian at 2:38 PM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
To listen to my Israeli friends, there's nothing but dodgy dealings among the families who happen to own most of the land in the country. it's an 'Everyone knows' that if any of them got properly investigated, the whole fabric would fall apart in short order.
posted by Devonian at 2:38 PM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Let me guess: they hate Bombardier?
posted by ocschwar at 2:22 PM on August 14
You guessed it. They go on for five paragraphs about Bombardier. Here's just a sample: "if Bombardier sold brooms instead of airplanes, the market would have put it out of its misery decades ago."
I'd agree that they hate everything French, but this started out taking a shot at the Winnipeg-based Centre for Aerospace Technology and Training, so apparently they're upset about western investment too.
posted by sardonyx at 2:44 PM on August 14, 2017
posted by ocschwar at 2:22 PM on August 14
You guessed it. They go on for five paragraphs about Bombardier. Here's just a sample: "if Bombardier sold brooms instead of airplanes, the market would have put it out of its misery decades ago."
I'd agree that they hate everything French, but this started out taking a shot at the Winnipeg-based Centre for Aerospace Technology and Training, so apparently they're upset about western investment too.
posted by sardonyx at 2:44 PM on August 14, 2017
I'd agree that they hate everything French, but this started out taking a shot at the Winnipeg-based Centre for Aerospace Technology and Training, so apparently they're upset about western investment too.
In my experience, the Canadian Taxpayer's Federation has yet to meet any use of money by the government that they approve of. I'm not sure why the media bothers going to them for quotes on any topic, because they are predictable, boring, and actually add very little of value to any conversation about taxation or budgets.
posted by nubs at 2:49 PM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
In my experience, the Canadian Taxpayer's Federation has yet to meet any use of money by the government that they approve of. I'm not sure why the media bothers going to them for quotes on any topic, because they are predictable, boring, and actually add very little of value to any conversation about taxation or budgets.
posted by nubs at 2:49 PM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
SCOOP-O-CLOCK! WaPo, Tom Hamburger, Carol D. Leonnig and Rosalind S. Helderman: Trump campaign emails show aide’s repeated efforts to set up Russia meetings
posted by zachlipton at 2:50 PM on August 14, 2017 [60 favorites]
Three days after Donald Trump named his campaign foreign policy team in March 2016, the youngest of the new advisers sent an email to seven campaign officials with the subject line: “Meeting with Russian Leadership - Including Putin.”They were trying to meet with Putin in March? Before he even had the nomination? And at least some of these guys were smart enough to see a problem here?
The adviser, George Papadopoulos, offered to set up “a meeting between us and the Russian leadership to discuss US-Russia ties under President Trump,” telling them his Russian contacts welcomed the opportunity, according to internal campaign emails read to The Washington Post.
The proposal sent a ripple of concern through campaign headquarters in Trump Tower. Campaign co-chairman Sam Clovis wrote that he thought NATO allies should be consulted before any plans were made. Another Trump adviser, retired Navy Rear Adm. Charles Kubic, cited legal concerns, including a possible violation of U.S. sanctions against Russia and of the Logan Act, which prohibits U.S. citizens from unauthorized negotiation with foreign governments.
But Papadopoulos, a campaign volunteer with scant foreign policy experience, persisted. Between March and September, the self-described energy consultant sent at least a half-dozen requests for Trump, as he turned from primary candidate to party nominee, or for members of his team to meet with Russian officials. Among those to express concern about the effort was then-campaign chairman Paul Manafort, who rejected in May 2016 a proposal from Papadopoulos for Trump to do so.
The exchanges are among more than 20,000 pages of documents the Trump campaign turned over to congressional committees this month after review by White House and defense lawyers. The selection of Papadopoulos’s emails were read to The Post by a person with access to them. Two other people with access to the emails confirmed the general tone of the exchanges and some specific passages within them.
posted by zachlipton at 2:50 PM on August 14, 2017 [60 favorites]
They're fine with investment as long as it's in Alberta.
Hell, they were fine with Alberta burning up billions of dollars and giving away the tar sands to American companies, as long as a Conservative party does it.
posted by Yowser at 2:51 PM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Hell, they were fine with Alberta burning up billions of dollars and giving away the tar sands to American companies, as long as a Conservative party does it.
posted by Yowser at 2:51 PM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
That's my take on them as well, nubs. Normally, I just ignore them. (I really should unsubscribe from their email list, especially as I never signed up to receive email from them in the first place.) Ninety-nine times out of one-hundred I just hit delete without reading their rants, but this one caught my eye because the topic was original (at least it was for them).
posted by sardonyx at 2:53 PM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by sardonyx at 2:53 PM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Three days after Donald Trump named his campaign foreign policy team in March 2016, the youngest of the new advisers sent an email to seven campaign officials with the subject line: “Meeting with Russian Leadership - Including Putin.”
George Papadopoulos is an "energy consultant". Coughrosneftcough.
Serious question: was Trump paying him, or was he another one of Trump's guys who were ostensibly working for free?
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:58 PM on August 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
Among those to express concern about the effort was then-campaign chairman Paul Manafort, who rejected in May 2016 a proposal from Papadopoulos for Trump to do so.
Imagine being Paul Manafort, and this shady shit is what you do for a living, what you've done your entire adult life, and all these Trump-hanger-ons are like, "Hey Paul! I've got some ideas about the ollusion-cay! I put them in writing in a mass e-mail!"
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:59 PM on August 14, 2017 [56 favorites]
Imagine being Paul Manafort, and this shady shit is what you do for a living, what you've done your entire adult life, and all these Trump-hanger-ons are like, "Hey Paul! I've got some ideas about the ollusion-cay! I put them in writing in a mass e-mail!"
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:59 PM on August 14, 2017 [56 favorites]
The story calls him a "campaign volunteer."
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:59 PM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:59 PM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
George Papadopoulos is an "energy consultant"
And now they've ruined Webster.
posted by mcdoublewide at 3:03 PM on August 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
And now they've ruined Webster.
posted by mcdoublewide at 3:03 PM on August 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
NYT, Haberman and Thrush, Bannon in Limbo as Trump Faces Growing Calls for the Strategist’s Ouster
posted by zachlipton at 3:04 PM on August 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
Rupert Murdoch has repeatedly urged President Trump to fire him. Anthony Scaramucci, the president’s former communications director, thrashed him on television as a white nationalist. Lt. Gen. H. R. McMaster, the national security adviser, refused to even say he could work with him.Adelson has come out in favor of McMaster, disavowing a campaign against him that Adelson himself is funding. Of course, Pelosi called for Bannon to go today, which might have just been the one thing that keeps Bannon around, lest anyone think Trump is doing what Democrats want him to.
For months, Mr. Trump has considered ousting Stephen K. Bannon, the White House chief strategist and relentless nationalist who ran the Breitbart website and called it a “platform for the alt-right.” Mr. Trump has now relegated Mr. Bannon to a kind of internal exile, and has not met face-to-face for more than a week with a man who was once a fixture in the Oval Office, according to aides and friends of the president.
So far, Mr. Trump has not been able to follow through — a product of his dislike of confrontation, the bonds of foxhole friendship forged during the 2016 presidential campaign and concerns about what mischief Mr. Bannon might do once he leaves the protective custody of the West Wing.
posted by zachlipton at 3:04 PM on August 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
Papadopoulos was the Trump advisor who had his stint in the Model UN in his linkedin profile.
posted by peeedro at 3:04 PM on August 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by peeedro at 3:04 PM on August 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
Yowser, not to be all "cite", I would love to see that if you have it; I live in Alberta, and I don't recall any such stuff from the CTF. It might be that what their spokesperson says varies by province to province, which wouldn't surprise me.
The amusing thing out here for the moment with the CTF is that the finance critic of the Wildrose/UCP party - and former Alberta CTF spokesperson himself - Derek Fildebrandt was exposed last week for renting out his government subsidized apartment in Edmonton on Airbnb; essentially, personally profiting off of something the government was already paying him for. And today, questions are emerging about him apparently double-dipping for meal expenses. The CTF has been very quiet about these revelations, surprisingly. Anyways, my fruede it is schaden.
/end canadian politics derail
posted by nubs at 3:05 PM on August 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
The amusing thing out here for the moment with the CTF is that the finance critic of the Wildrose/UCP party - and former Alberta CTF spokesperson himself - Derek Fildebrandt was exposed last week for renting out his government subsidized apartment in Edmonton on Airbnb; essentially, personally profiting off of something the government was already paying him for. And today, questions are emerging about him apparently double-dipping for meal expenses. The CTF has been very quiet about these revelations, surprisingly. Anyways, my fruede it is schaden.
/end canadian politics derail
posted by nubs at 3:05 PM on August 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
'Acting with integrity' is bred out of most CEOs by the time they get to that position, assuming it was ever part of their modus operandi in the first place...
Ms Wimp and I were just discussing that one of the pernicious effects of high CEO compensation, especially when it is tied to stock performance, is creating an extremely powerful incentive to take ethical and financial shortcuts. Most people could live for their lifetimes on what a CEO can make in a year. There is absolutely no strong motivation to look any further into the future than the next quarter or at most the next year if you can make $20-30M this year by jacking the stock price. Especially true when the SEC/DoJ levy fines that are much lower than the the take for financial crimes.
posted by Mental Wimp at 3:07 PM on August 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
Ms Wimp and I were just discussing that one of the pernicious effects of high CEO compensation, especially when it is tied to stock performance, is creating an extremely powerful incentive to take ethical and financial shortcuts. Most people could live for their lifetimes on what a CEO can make in a year. There is absolutely no strong motivation to look any further into the future than the next quarter or at most the next year if you can make $20-30M this year by jacking the stock price. Especially true when the SEC/DoJ levy fines that are much lower than the the take for financial crimes.
posted by Mental Wimp at 3:07 PM on August 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
Wait, wait, wait. I didn't read far enough before I posted that. WTF is this?
Top administration officials like to joke that working for Mr. Trump is like toiling in the court of Henry VIII. Mick Mulvaney, the president’s budget director, recently handed out copies of the play “A Man for all Seasons,” about the last years of Sir Thomas More, Henry’s religiously zealous chancellor, who was executed for failing to fulfill his monarch’s directive to get him a divorce from Anne Boleyn. Mr. Bannon read it, according to a person familiar with the situation, and was amused when an associate compared him to More.posted by zachlipton at 3:13 PM on August 14, 2017 [22 favorites]
Yeah, I don't really think Steve Bannon is a latter-day St Thomas More....
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:20 PM on August 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:20 PM on August 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
Perhaps a latter-day version of Monty Python's Dennis Moore. "He steals from the poor... and gives to the rich..."
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:22 PM on August 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:22 PM on August 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
He takes an absolutist stance on not having principles.
posted by Artw at 3:24 PM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 3:24 PM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Sounds like Kim Jong-un was feeling marginalized so he has announced that he has reviewed the plans for firing missiles near Guam and has been watching the foolish and stupid moves of the Yankees.
Waiting on a response from Trump Don-un
posted by Justinian at 3:26 PM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Waiting on a response from Trump Don-un
posted by Justinian at 3:26 PM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
A key passage from zachlipton's link to the new WaPo school:
However, in spite of Manafort's spokesman saying that these emails show that the higher ups were concerned about the legal ramifications of DJT meeting with Russian governmental agents, there's still plenty of fire there. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to conclude that Manafort's presence at Junior's meeting with Veselnitskaya suggests an openness to working with the Russian government but also awareness that DJT could not be directly implicated. I think there's much more in the campaign and financial records of the major players to suggest untoward/collusionary links to Russia, even if more evidence surfaces that lower-level associates failed at setting up meetings between DJT and the Russian government.
We haven't even gotten into Flynn's repeated contacts with and payments from the Russian Federation, Session's undisclosed meetings with Kislyak, and Kushner's shady-ass attempt to set up a secret procedure to communicate with Moscow using Russian infrastructure.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 3:30 PM on August 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
Steven L. Hall, who retired from the CIA in 2015 after 30 years of managing the agency’s Russia operations, said when told by The Post about the emails: “The bottom line is that there’s no doubt in my mind that the Russian government was casting a wide net when they were looking at the American election. I think they were doing very basic intelligence work: Who’s out there? Who’s willing to play ball? And how can we use them?”This assessment seems quite reasonable--an adversary like the government of the Russian Federation would want as many hooks in the meat as possible to use as leverage/kompromat later. Apparently, though, they found someone in George Papadopolous whom even the shady clowns of the Trump campaign looked at and said, "Okay, this is too stupid even for us".
However, in spite of Manafort's spokesman saying that these emails show that the higher ups were concerned about the legal ramifications of DJT meeting with Russian governmental agents, there's still plenty of fire there. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to conclude that Manafort's presence at Junior's meeting with Veselnitskaya suggests an openness to working with the Russian government but also awareness that DJT could not be directly implicated. I think there's much more in the campaign and financial records of the major players to suggest untoward/collusionary links to Russia, even if more evidence surfaces that lower-level associates failed at setting up meetings between DJT and the Russian government.
We haven't even gotten into Flynn's repeated contacts with and payments from the Russian Federation, Session's undisclosed meetings with Kislyak, and Kushner's shady-ass attempt to set up a secret procedure to communicate with Moscow using Russian infrastructure.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 3:30 PM on August 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
I'm not sure if this has been reported before (searched the thread and didn't find it) but The Hill is reporting that the Justice Department is requesting information from Dreamhost on 1.3 million visitors to disruptj20.com. Dreamhost is fighting it.
posted by WidgetAlley at 3:30 PM on August 14, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by WidgetAlley at 3:30 PM on August 14, 2017 [21 favorites]
There are certainly ways in which Bannon may be closer to Thomas More than anyone would like to see...
(Contrast the characterization in A Man for All Seasons with More's portrayal in Wolf Hall...)
posted by suelac at 3:31 PM on August 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
(Contrast the characterization in A Man for All Seasons with More's portrayal in Wolf Hall...)
posted by suelac at 3:31 PM on August 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
The joy of Bannon's putative ouster is twofold - the thought of him getting the boot in a humiliating and personally damaging way, only to cause maximum trouble for 45 afterwards, is entirely to my taste. But the thought of him clinging doggedly on in there, effectively isolated and acting as a distraction and a chaotic attractor, is also quite pleasing.
The whole sorry squirming mass of maggots should be cleansed with fire, obvs. but dysfunction is acting as a brake on some of the terrible things that could be happening, and I choose to celebrate that aspect of this historical administration. Or hysterical maladministration.
posted by Devonian at 3:37 PM on August 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
The whole sorry squirming mass of maggots should be cleansed with fire, obvs. but dysfunction is acting as a brake on some of the terrible things that could be happening, and I choose to celebrate that aspect of this historical administration. Or hysterical maladministration.
posted by Devonian at 3:37 PM on August 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
We've been here before.
posted by Artw at 3:39 PM on August 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Artw at 3:39 PM on August 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrumpThe President of the United States of America, everybody.
Made additional remarks on Charlottesville and realize once again that the #Fake News Media will never be satisfied...truly bad people!
3:29 PM - 14 Aug 2017
posted by Talez at 3:40 PM on August 14, 2017 [71 favorites]
The joy of Bannon's putative ouster is twofold - the thought of him getting the boot in a humiliating and personally damaging way, only to cause maximum trouble for 45 afterwards, is entirely to my taste. But the thought of him clinging doggedly on in there, effectively isolated and acting as a distraction and a chaotic attractor, is also quite pleasing.
Imagine the rumors (and resultant raging tweetstorms) were he to meet with Mueller after his ouster.
posted by Existential Dread at 3:41 PM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Imagine the rumors (and resultant raging tweetstorms) were he to meet with Mueller after his ouster.
posted by Existential Dread at 3:41 PM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
My question is what changed? There were a bunch of people who seemingly knew what was up and were putting the breaks on Russian contacts early on, and then a few months later the highest officials in the campaign are having the "adoption" meeting? In a lot of ways, this is worse, because it indicates the campaign knew full well what they were getting into.
The other not-so-subtle point is that at least two of the five people Trump named to his foreign policy team (Page and Papadopoulos) were apparently up to their ass in Russian contacts.
Anyway, we have a Trump tweet: "Made additional remarks on Charlottesville and realize once again that the #Fake News Media will never be satisfied...truly bad people!" That's basically straight up "fine, I sad the Nazis are evil like you told me to and you people still aren't satisfied," further undercutting (as if that could be possible) the sincerity of his message. Or as Ashley Feinberg puts it: "what was even the point of saying nazis are bad if you’re not going to praise me"
posted by zachlipton at 3:42 PM on August 14, 2017 [37 favorites]
The other not-so-subtle point is that at least two of the five people Trump named to his foreign policy team (Page and Papadopoulos) were apparently up to their ass in Russian contacts.
Anyway, we have a Trump tweet: "Made additional remarks on Charlottesville and realize once again that the #Fake News Media will never be satisfied...truly bad people!" That's basically straight up "fine, I sad the Nazis are evil like you told me to and you people still aren't satisfied," further undercutting (as if that could be possible) the sincerity of his message. Or as Ashley Feinberg puts it: "what was even the point of saying nazis are bad if you’re not going to praise me"
posted by zachlipton at 3:42 PM on August 14, 2017 [37 favorites]
We've been here before.
Indeed, Bannon is the hognose snake of the Executive Branch: you're sure he's dead, but look away from him for one second and he slithers back into the undergrowth.
"If this threat display fails to deter a would-be predator, Steve Bannons often roll onto their backs and play dead, going so far as to emit a foul musk and fecal matter from their cloaca and let their tongues hang out of their mouth, sometimes accompanied by small droplets of blood. If they are rolled upright while in this state, they will often roll back as if insisting they really are dead. It has been observed that the Bannon, while appearing to be dead, will still watch the threat that caused the death pose. The Steve will 'resurrect' sooner if the threat is looking away from it than if the threat is looking at it."
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:45 PM on August 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
Indeed, Bannon is the hognose snake of the Executive Branch: you're sure he's dead, but look away from him for one second and he slithers back into the undergrowth.
"If this threat display fails to deter a would-be predator, Steve Bannons often roll onto their backs and play dead, going so far as to emit a foul musk and fecal matter from their cloaca and let their tongues hang out of their mouth, sometimes accompanied by small droplets of blood. If they are rolled upright while in this state, they will often roll back as if insisting they really are dead. It has been observed that the Bannon, while appearing to be dead, will still watch the threat that caused the death pose. The Steve will 'resurrect' sooner if the threat is looking away from it than if the threat is looking at it."
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:45 PM on August 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
trump: SNOWFLAKE MILLENNIALS
also trump: i just did literally the absolute minimum and only after much criticism WHY ARENT YOU SATISFIED
posted by entropicamericana at 3:47 PM on August 14, 2017 [20 favorites]
also trump: i just did literally the absolute minimum and only after much criticism WHY ARENT YOU SATISFIED
posted by entropicamericana at 3:47 PM on August 14, 2017 [20 favorites]
Truly, 45 has less class than this place...
posted by Devonian at 3:51 PM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Devonian at 3:51 PM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Truly, 45 has less class than this place...
45 is just like school in July!
posted by Talez at 3:53 PM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
45 is just like school in July!
posted by Talez at 3:53 PM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
My question is what changed? There were a bunch of people who seemingly knew what was up and were putting the breaks on Russian contacts early on, and then a few months later the highest officials in the campaign are having the "adoption" meeting? In a lot of ways, this is worse, because it indicates the campaign knew full well what they were getting into.
Maybe nothing changed--the collusion was already in the works, but this guy said the quiet parts too loud in the wrong place. Michael Flynn was along in this enterprise since very early on. Manafort has had long standing ties to violent despots, Russian puppets, and the post-Soviet Criminal underworld. Similarly, Trump, his lawyer Michael Cohen, and associate Felix Sater have been involved with shady Russian money going back at least a decade.
As you say, though, more worrisome is the idea that something did change--as in true blackmail of campaign officials and/or the candidate--that drew in Trump, Manafort, Sessions, and Kushner. My bet would be direct evidence of financial crimes, money laundering, etc. Less likely would be things like the pee tape or child sexual abuse.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 3:55 PM on August 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Maybe nothing changed--the collusion was already in the works, but this guy said the quiet parts too loud in the wrong place. Michael Flynn was along in this enterprise since very early on. Manafort has had long standing ties to violent despots, Russian puppets, and the post-Soviet Criminal underworld. Similarly, Trump, his lawyer Michael Cohen, and associate Felix Sater have been involved with shady Russian money going back at least a decade.
As you say, though, more worrisome is the idea that something did change--as in true blackmail of campaign officials and/or the candidate--that drew in Trump, Manafort, Sessions, and Kushner. My bet would be direct evidence of financial crimes, money laundering, etc. Less likely would be things like the pee tape or child sexual abuse.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 3:55 PM on August 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
the play “A Man for all Seasons,” about the last years of Sir Thomas More, Henry’s religiously zealous chancellor, who was executed for failing to fulfill his monarch’s directive to get him a divorce from Anne Boleyn.
Are these people (reporter and/or source; I can't tell) fucking illiterate? Henry did not direct More or anyone to get him a divorce/annulment from Anne Boleyn; he directed him to secure an annulment to his marriage to Catherine of Aragon so he could marry Anne Boleyn. Whom he semi-promptly executed so he could marry Jane Seymour.
ALSO, More was not executed over the divorce; he was executed for refusing to take the Oath of Supremacy acknowledging Henry as the head of the Church. Jesus Christ, this is like basic entry-level British history you could learn from watching fucking PBS.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:59 PM on August 14, 2017 [59 favorites]
Are these people (reporter and/or source; I can't tell) fucking illiterate? Henry did not direct More or anyone to get him a divorce/annulment from Anne Boleyn; he directed him to secure an annulment to his marriage to Catherine of Aragon so he could marry Anne Boleyn. Whom he semi-promptly executed so he could marry Jane Seymour.
ALSO, More was not executed over the divorce; he was executed for refusing to take the Oath of Supremacy acknowledging Henry as the head of the Church. Jesus Christ, this is like basic entry-level British history you could learn from watching fucking PBS.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:59 PM on August 14, 2017 [59 favorites]
David Duke @DrDavidDuke
It's amazing to see how the media is able to bully the President of the United States into going along with their FAKE NEWS narrative.
10:31 AM · Aug 14, 2017
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
Made additional remarks on Charlottesville and realize once again that the #Fake News Media will never be satisfied...truly bad people!
3:29 PM - 14 Aug 2017
posted by Room 641-A at 4:00 PM on August 14, 2017 [30 favorites]
It's amazing to see how the media is able to bully the President of the United States into going along with their FAKE NEWS narrative.
10:31 AM · Aug 14, 2017
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
Made additional remarks on Charlottesville and realize once again that the #Fake News Media will never be satisfied...truly bad people!
3:29 PM - 14 Aug 2017
posted by Room 641-A at 4:00 PM on August 14, 2017 [30 favorites]
So glad to see Trump admit that he only said "racism is bad" to satisfy his critics.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:04 PM on August 14, 2017 [47 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:04 PM on August 14, 2017 [47 favorites]
There are certainly ways in which Bannon may be closer to Thomas More than anyone would like to see...
Beware presentism, though.
(In other words, I have higher standards for a 21st century developed semi-democratic country than I do for the fucking courtiers of Henry Tudor.)
But more to the point, St Thomas More was willing to die for his belief that the King was wrong. I don't think the weaselfascist Bannon has that much courage.
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:04 PM on August 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Beware presentism, though.
(In other words, I have higher standards for a 21st century developed semi-democratic country than I do for the fucking courtiers of Henry Tudor.)
But more to the point, St Thomas More was willing to die for his belief that the King was wrong. I don't think the weaselfascist Bannon has that much courage.
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:04 PM on August 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
The Times seems to have edited the article to more accurately Mooresplain, though without a correction:
Top administration officials like to joke that working for Mr. Trump is like toiling in the court of Henry VIII. Mick Mulvaney, the president’s budget director, recently handed out copies of the play “A Man for all Seasons,” about the last years of Sir Thomas More, Henry’s chancellor, who was executed for failing to endorse Henry’s split with Rome. Mr. Bannon read it, according to a person familiar with the situation, and was amused when an associate compared him to More.posted by zachlipton at 4:22 PM on August 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
The Times seems to have edited the article to more accurately Mooresplain, though without a correction:
Whew, that somewhat restores my faith in (belated) proofreading and fact-checking.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:29 PM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Whew, that somewhat restores my faith in (belated) proofreading and fact-checking.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:29 PM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
. . . she said, omitting the period at the end of the sentence.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:30 PM on August 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:30 PM on August 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
don't worry, FelliniBlank, all the cool kids are doing that anymore
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:36 PM on August 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:36 PM on August 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
It's an Oxford period
posted by Room 641-A at 4:37 PM on August 14, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 4:37 PM on August 14, 2017 [25 favorites]
what's a period
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:41 PM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:41 PM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
twenty pixels same as in etc
posted by cortex at 4:42 PM on August 14, 2017 [52 favorites]
posted by cortex at 4:42 PM on August 14, 2017 [52 favorites]
the spaces between your periods is troubling. see a doctor.
posted by waitangi at 4:47 PM on August 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by waitangi at 4:47 PM on August 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
Wherein his own team says he can't be remotely presidential, and in fact most likely can't be not actively harmful.
Daily Beast: Trump Not Planning on Charlottesville Trip; ‘Why The Hell Would We Do That?’ Aides Say
Daily Beast: Trump Not Planning on Charlottesville Trip; ‘Why The Hell Would We Do That?’ Aides Say
Though presidents are often hypersensitive towards appearing to be on top of national crises, it is not entirely surprising that the president is currently passing on a trip to Charlottesville. On Monday, Trump finally, and specifically, called out white supremacists and white nationalists in prepared remarks from the White House, after days of brutal, bipartisan criticism for his initial, response that chided “many sides.” Two senior Trump aides, speaking on the condition of anonymity in order to speak freely, had earlier told The Daily Beast that there was no serious sign that West Wing staffers were even exploring a Charlottesville visit at this point.posted by chris24 at 5:09 PM on August 14, 2017 [51 favorites]
“Why the hell would we do that?” one White House official bluntly said, stating that whatever the president did in Charlottesville at this stage would be “used against” him by critics and media voices. The official also conceded that it was unlikely that this president would be able to deliver rousing, healing oratory that is demanded in such a dire situation. Trump, the fear went, could potentially worsen matters by being there.
I could watch this statue come down all day.
Has the Confederacy finally lost the war for real? (probably not)
posted by uncleozzy at 5:13 PM on August 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
Has the Confederacy finally lost the war for real? (probably not)
posted by uncleozzy at 5:13 PM on August 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
Angry protesters all around Trump Tower tonight.
In the Charlottesville thread about how this damages 45's support. I've thought on it more and I think a good parallel is, this is Trump's Kent State. People who were, to this point, not into politics or outraged and disgusted by this administration will feel this, and maybe get a little active.
This bit from the wikipedia about the aftermath of Kent State stood out to me: Just five days after the shootings, 100,000 people demonstrated in Washington, D.C., against the war and the killing of unarmed student protesters. Ray Price, Nixon's chief speechwriter from 1969 to 1974, recalled the Washington demonstrations saying, "The city was an armed camp. The mobs were smashing windows, slashing tires, dragging parked cars into intersections, even throwing bedsprings off overpasses into the traffic down below. This was the quote, student protest. That's not student protest, that's civil war."[10] Not only was Nixon taken to Camp David for two days for his own protection, but Charles Colson (Counsel to President Nixon from 1969 to 1973) stated that the military was called up to protect the administration from the angry students; he recalled that "The 82nd Airborne was in the basement of the executive office building, so I went down just to talk to some of the guys and walk among them, and they're lying on the floor leaning on their packs and their helmets and their cartridge belts and their rifles cocked and you're thinking, 'This can't be the United States of America. This is not the greatest free democracy in the world. This is a nation at war with itself.'"[10]
President Nixon and his administration's public reaction to the shootings was perceived by many in the anti-war movement as callous. Then National Security Advisor Henry Kissinger said the president was "pretending indifference". Stanley Karnow noted in his Vietnam: A History that "The [Nixon] administration initially reacted to this event with wanton insensitivity. Nixon's press secretary, Ron Ziegler, whose statements were carefully programmed, referred to the deaths as a reminder that 'when dissent turns to violence, it invites tragedy.'" Three days before the shootings, Nixon had talked of "bums" who were antiwar protestors on United States campuses,[47] to which the father of Allison Krause stated on national TV "My child was not a bum."[48]
He just opened a whole new spigot of disgust, and it isn't about policy. This shows the nation just how petty and small minded and fucked in the head he is, and people who up to now didn't care might start to care.
posted by vrakatar at 5:15 PM on August 14, 2017 [21 favorites]
In the Charlottesville thread about how this damages 45's support. I've thought on it more and I think a good parallel is, this is Trump's Kent State. People who were, to this point, not into politics or outraged and disgusted by this administration will feel this, and maybe get a little active.
This bit from the wikipedia about the aftermath of Kent State stood out to me: Just five days after the shootings, 100,000 people demonstrated in Washington, D.C., against the war and the killing of unarmed student protesters. Ray Price, Nixon's chief speechwriter from 1969 to 1974, recalled the Washington demonstrations saying, "The city was an armed camp. The mobs were smashing windows, slashing tires, dragging parked cars into intersections, even throwing bedsprings off overpasses into the traffic down below. This was the quote, student protest. That's not student protest, that's civil war."[10] Not only was Nixon taken to Camp David for two days for his own protection, but Charles Colson (Counsel to President Nixon from 1969 to 1973) stated that the military was called up to protect the administration from the angry students; he recalled that "The 82nd Airborne was in the basement of the executive office building, so I went down just to talk to some of the guys and walk among them, and they're lying on the floor leaning on their packs and their helmets and their cartridge belts and their rifles cocked and you're thinking, 'This can't be the United States of America. This is not the greatest free democracy in the world. This is a nation at war with itself.'"[10]
President Nixon and his administration's public reaction to the shootings was perceived by many in the anti-war movement as callous. Then National Security Advisor Henry Kissinger said the president was "pretending indifference". Stanley Karnow noted in his Vietnam: A History that "The [Nixon] administration initially reacted to this event with wanton insensitivity. Nixon's press secretary, Ron Ziegler, whose statements were carefully programmed, referred to the deaths as a reminder that 'when dissent turns to violence, it invites tragedy.'" Three days before the shootings, Nixon had talked of "bums" who were antiwar protestors on United States campuses,[47] to which the father of Allison Krause stated on national TV "My child was not a bum."[48]
He just opened a whole new spigot of disgust, and it isn't about policy. This shows the nation just how petty and small minded and fucked in the head he is, and people who up to now didn't care might start to care.
posted by vrakatar at 5:15 PM on August 14, 2017 [21 favorites]
Also it turns out that Nazis are actually rubbish at making trains run on time.
That's because it was the Italian fascists that made them run on time.
And if ya listen to Micheal Rupert they also made sure their fascism was the blending of government and corporate power.
Ron Howard's now raspy voiceover: It's still not true.
posted by rough ashlar at 5:18 PM on August 14, 2017
That's because it was the Italian fascists that made them run on time.
And if ya listen to Micheal Rupert they also made sure their fascism was the blending of government and corporate power.
Ron Howard's now raspy voiceover: It's still not true.
posted by rough ashlar at 5:18 PM on August 14, 2017
@thomaswatkins (AFP)
Mattis just stopped by Pentagon newsroom and suggested #transgender military ban not a done deal
posted by chris24 at 5:25 PM on August 14, 2017 [23 favorites]
Mattis just stopped by Pentagon newsroom and suggested #transgender military ban not a done deal
posted by chris24 at 5:25 PM on August 14, 2017 [23 favorites]
Under Armour's CEO has stepped down from the American Manufacturing Council. (Single link to Under Armour's twitter, but that's where Kevin Plank's statement is.)
posted by yasaman at 5:25 PM on August 14, 2017 [37 favorites]
posted by yasaman at 5:25 PM on August 14, 2017 [37 favorites]
the spaces between your periods is troubling. see a doctor.
It's probably menopause.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:25 PM on August 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
It's probably menopause.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:25 PM on August 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
Josh Barro: There is a large portion of Trump's white voter base that's really offended by the idea they are associated with white nationalists or overt racists — even if, at the same time, appeals to white resentment are a part of what draws them to Trump.
These are the sort of people who make a lot of statements that start "I'm not racist, but..."
They really didn't like it when Hillary Clinton called them deplorable, because when they insist they're not racist, they mean it. They know they're not racist because their idea of a racist is a torch-wielding white power protester, which they're not.
So when a bunch of white power protesters made a big spectacle of themselves, and then one of them killed a woman and injured more than a dozen other people, and then Trump gave an equivocal statement that seemed to validate their support of him anyway, this was embarrassing for Trump's other white backers.
First it was Clinton; now it's Trump himself, lumping them in with the deplorables.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:26 PM on August 14, 2017 [22 favorites]
These are the sort of people who make a lot of statements that start "I'm not racist, but..."
They really didn't like it when Hillary Clinton called them deplorable, because when they insist they're not racist, they mean it. They know they're not racist because their idea of a racist is a torch-wielding white power protester, which they're not.
So when a bunch of white power protesters made a big spectacle of themselves, and then one of them killed a woman and injured more than a dozen other people, and then Trump gave an equivocal statement that seemed to validate their support of him anyway, this was embarrassing for Trump's other white backers.
First it was Clinton; now it's Trump himself, lumping them in with the deplorables.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:26 PM on August 14, 2017 [22 favorites]
OK I was being *very* tongue in cheek about the Canadian Taxpayers Foundation having a pro-Alberta Conservatives bias. I have no evidence that they actually have any bias other than towards drowning the country in the bath water (I think that's how the analogy goes?) My apologies.
posted by Yowser at 5:28 PM on August 14, 2017
posted by Yowser at 5:28 PM on August 14, 2017
For the second time in a little over a month, somebody has used a rock to smash one of the panels in Boston's Holocaust Memorial. The memorial consists of six glass towers with the panes etched with numbers representing Shoah victims - and it sits in one of the most heavily traveled parts of the city.
posted by adamg at 5:36 PM on August 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by adamg at 5:36 PM on August 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Under Armour's CEO has stepped down from the American Manufacturing Council.
Trump attacked the black CEO of Merck in 54 minutes when he dropped from the Council. And then again three hours ago. We are now up to one hour and 25 minutes since the white CEO of Under Armour made his statement resigning and no attack from Dear Leader.
posted by chris24 at 5:39 PM on August 14, 2017 [22 favorites]
Trump attacked the black CEO of Merck in 54 minutes when he dropped from the Council. And then again three hours ago. We are now up to one hour and 25 minutes since the white CEO of Under Armour made his statement resigning and no attack from Dear Leader.
posted by chris24 at 5:39 PM on August 14, 2017 [22 favorites]
will no one rid us of this turbulent drunk
yes i know that's a different henry and a different thomas but screw you, i do what i want
posted by murphy slaw at 5:41 PM on August 14, 2017 [18 favorites]
yes i know that's a different henry and a different thomas but screw you, i do what i want
posted by murphy slaw at 5:41 PM on August 14, 2017 [18 favorites]
That's because it was the Italian fascists that made them run on time.
Also untrue.
posted by ckape at 5:43 PM on August 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
Also untrue.
posted by ckape at 5:43 PM on August 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
Oh damnit, in my comment above I meant to say " I made a comment in the Charlottesville thread about how this damages 45's support."
Sorry. I blame the beer.
posted by vrakatar at 5:48 PM on August 14, 2017
Sorry. I blame the beer.
posted by vrakatar at 5:48 PM on August 14, 2017
NYT, Haberman and Thrush, Bannon in Limbo as Trump Faces Growing Calls for the Strategist’s Ouster
posted by chris24 at 5:50 PM on August 14, 2017 [33 favorites]
Despite being marginalized, Mr. Bannon consulted with the president repeatedly over the weekend as Mr. Trump struggled to respond to the neo-Nazi rally in Charlottesville, Va. In general, Mr. Bannon has cautioned the president not to criticize far-right activists too severely for fear of antagonizing a small but energetic part of his base.You don't say...
But what once endeared him to the president has now become a major liability. After the president waited two days to blame white supremacists for the violence in Charlottesville, there is new pressure from Mr. Trump’s critics to dismiss Mr. Bannon.
“I don’t think that White House has a chance of functioning properly as long as there’s a resident lunatic fringe,” said Mark Salter, a longtime adviser to Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona. At best, he said, Mr. Bannon seems willing to “tolerate something that’s intolerable” in Mr. Trump’s base.
posted by chris24 at 5:50 PM on August 14, 2017 [33 favorites]
Re: Tudor renaissance and apocryphal historical quotes
And when the time comes, once we've survived the chaos, stand under an oak tree and pronounce: A DOJ factum est illud et est Muellerbile in oculis nostris.
apologies for any Latin-bungling; it's been a while since my semester of Latin
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 5:59 PM on August 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
And when the time comes, once we've survived the chaos, stand under an oak tree and pronounce: A DOJ factum est illud et est Muellerbile in oculis nostris.
apologies for any Latin-bungling; it's been a while since my semester of Latin
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 5:59 PM on August 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Live feed (cnn) from the NYC protest, audio cut cuz f-bombs I think.
posted by vrakatar at 6:24 PM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by vrakatar at 6:24 PM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Sorry. I blame the beer.
Never blame the beer.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:24 PM on August 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
Just out on the Daily Beast.
Paul Manafort Sought $850 Million Deal With Putin Ally and Alleged Gangster
Paul Manafort Sought $850 Million Deal With Putin Ally and Alleged Gangster
Paul Manafort partnered on an $850 million New York real estate deal with an ally of Vladimir Putin and a Ukrainian moneyman whom the Justice Department recently described as an “organized crime member.”posted by chris24 at 6:38 PM on August 14, 2017 [23 favorites]
That’s according a 2008 memo written by Rick Gates, Manafort’s business partner and fellow alumnus of Donald Trump’s presidential campaign. In it, Gates enthused about finalizing with the financing necessary to acquire New York’s louche Drake Hotel.
Two former federal prosecutors told The Daily Beast that the hotel deal was likely to be an item of focus for Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s inquiry into ties between Trump associates and the Kremlin.
---
Firtash’s alliance with Manafort to acquire the Drake has been reported before. But far less attention has gone to the involvement of another party: Oleg Deripaska, one of the wealthiest men in Russia—and a longtime Putin associate. In 2006, according to the Associated Press, Deripaska signed a $10 million annual contract with Manafort for what Manafort pitched as political and economic efforts inside the U.S. to “greatly benefit the Putin Government.”
But Manafort was more than Deripaska’s political operative. They were business partners, as well. “When Paul met with Mr. D last month he told Paul to lock in the other financing elements and then come back to him for the final piece of investment,” Gates wrote to two longtime business associates of Deripaska, Anton Vishnevsky and Andrey Zagorskiy, on July 1, 2008.
According to ex-prosecutors, a business relationship between a Kremlin-tied oligarch, an accused gangster and the manager of Donald Trump’s campaign is the sort of arrangement currently occupying Mueller’s time.
And Maddow just talked about this very long read in The New Yorker by Adam Davidson. He will be on her show tomorrow.
Trump’s Business of Corruption
What secrets will Mueller find when he investigates the President’s foreign deals?
Drip drip dripdripdrip.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:03 PM on August 14, 2017 [25 favorites]
Trump’s Business of Corruption
What secrets will Mueller find when he investigates the President’s foreign deals?
Drip drip dripdripdrip.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:03 PM on August 14, 2017 [25 favorites]
Jesus Christ, today feels like we're getting the same number of major Trump scandals coming out as the first 5 months of his presidency put together! I literally cannot keep up.
posted by azuresunday at 7:06 PM on August 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by azuresunday at 7:06 PM on August 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
TINY FINGERS TINY HEART chant the protesters
posted by vrakatar at 7:16 PM on August 14, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by vrakatar at 7:16 PM on August 14, 2017 [18 favorites]
Outside Trump Tower in NYC as the president arrives. Protesters are here to meet him (Facebook Live - WaPo)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:21 PM on August 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:21 PM on August 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
Trump attacked the black CEO of Merck in 54 minutes when he dropped from the Council. And then again three hours ago. We are now up to one hour and 25 minutes since the white CEO of Under Armour made his statement resigning and no attack from Dear Leader.
Probably scared by the word Armour.
posted by srboisvert at 7:22 PM on August 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
Probably scared by the word Armour.
posted by srboisvert at 7:22 PM on August 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
Intel said Monday that CEO Brian Krzanich was leaving President Trump's American Manufacturing Council, the latest executive to distance himself from the president following the weekend's events in Virginia. (CNBC is reporting this, too, but don't have a full story up yet.)
posted by maudlin at 7:42 PM on August 14, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by maudlin at 7:42 PM on August 14, 2017 [34 favorites]
Statement from the Intel blog:
By Brian Krzanich, Chief Executive Officerposted by maudlin at 7:45 PM on August 14, 2017 [35 favorites]
Earlier today, I tendered my resignation from the American Manufacturing Council. I resigned to call attention to the serious harm our divided political climate is causing to critical issues, including the serious need to address the decline of American manufacturing. Politics and political agendas have sidelined the important mission of rebuilding America’s manufacturing base.
I have already made clear my abhorrence at the recent hate-spawned violence in Charlottesville, and earlier today I called on all leaders to condemn the white supremacists and their ilk who marched and committed violence. I resigned because I want to make progress, while many in Washington seem more concerned with attacking anyone who disagrees with them. We should honor – not attack – those who have stood up for equality and other cherished American values. I hope this will change, and I remain willing to serve when it does.
I am not a politician. I am an engineer who has spent most of his career working in factories that manufacture the world’s most advanced devices. Yet, it is clear even to me that nearly every issue is now politicized to the point where significant progress is impossible. Promoting American manufacturing should not be a political issue.
My request—my plea—to everyone involved in our political system is this: set scoring political points aside and focus on what is best for the nation as a whole. The current environment must change, or else our nation will become a shadow of what it once was and what it still can and should be.
*slow clap* from former Intel employee
posted by rodeoclown at 7:57 PM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by rodeoclown at 7:57 PM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Pretty weaksauce statement, though.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 7:59 PM on August 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by escape from the potato planet at 7:59 PM on August 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
A white supremacist killed a girl in Charlottesville.
Fox topics today have included:
- Obama and BLM
- Wright
- Sharia Law
- Farrakhan(!)
2007 called and wants its racist dogwhistles back
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:00 PM on August 14, 2017 [55 favorites]
Fox topics today have included:
- Obama and BLM
- Wright
- Sharia Law
- Farrakhan(!)
2007 called and wants its racist dogwhistles back
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:00 PM on August 14, 2017 [55 favorites]
My request—my plea—to everyone involved in our political system
Ah, yes, Many Sides.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:07 PM on August 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
Ah, yes, Many Sides.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:07 PM on August 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
Pretty weaksauce statement, though.
Yeah, it's pretty much "both sides need to come together". But he's white and circumspect, so he may escape his own personal attack on Twitter in a few hours. Same with the Armour CEO, who didn't, despite the headlines, say anything concrete about Trump or Charlottesville: “Under Armour engages in innovation and sports, not politics. ..." Ken Frazier of Merck was the only one to speak plainly and clearly.
posted by maudlin at 8:09 PM on August 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yeah, it's pretty much "both sides need to come together". But he's white and circumspect, so he may escape his own personal attack on Twitter in a few hours. Same with the Armour CEO, who didn't, despite the headlines, say anything concrete about Trump or Charlottesville: “Under Armour engages in innovation and sports, not politics. ..." Ken Frazier of Merck was the only one to speak plainly and clearly.
posted by maudlin at 8:09 PM on August 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
WaPo -- Analysis: On Twitter, Trump Accuses Blacks of Racism Three Times As Often As Whites
And the whites he accuses of racism include Hillary Clinton, Elizabeth Warren, and David Letterman.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:17 PM on August 14, 2017 [48 favorites]
And the whites he accuses of racism include Hillary Clinton, Elizabeth Warren, and David Letterman.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:17 PM on August 14, 2017 [48 favorites]
We are getting to a point where the criminal, insane nature of this prez and his cadre is actually paralyzing the entire executive branch. Maybe federal employees could stage a walkout, or issue a statement of no confidence, or resign en mass? Is there any case where presidential employees resigned in coordinated protest?
posted by vrakatar at 8:21 PM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by vrakatar at 8:21 PM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
> We are getting to a point where the criminal, insane nature of this prez and his cadre is actually paralyzing the entire executive branch. Maybe federal employees could stage a walkout, or issue a statement of no confidence, or resign en mass?
I think it's in our best interest to keep as many employees as possible from the pre-Trump era. Civil servants aren't always in a good position to push back on bad policy set by POTUS, but the "deep state" doesn't just include the intelligence community. We've seen glimpses of federal employees trying to resist Trump from folks at the National Parks Serivice, the EPA, The State Department, and many others. I can't blame any of them from deciding they can no longer in good conscience participate, but I do think that any positives associated with a mass resignation would be outweighed by the loss of their experience, and likely replacement by employees more friendly to the Trump agenda.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:34 PM on August 14, 2017 [26 favorites]
I think it's in our best interest to keep as many employees as possible from the pre-Trump era. Civil servants aren't always in a good position to push back on bad policy set by POTUS, but the "deep state" doesn't just include the intelligence community. We've seen glimpses of federal employees trying to resist Trump from folks at the National Parks Serivice, the EPA, The State Department, and many others. I can't blame any of them from deciding they can no longer in good conscience participate, but I do think that any positives associated with a mass resignation would be outweighed by the loss of their experience, and likely replacement by employees more friendly to the Trump agenda.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:34 PM on August 14, 2017 [26 favorites]
North Korea backs off Guam missile threat: report (The Hill)
... nobody tell Trump!
seriously, don't tell him
posted by Barack Spinoza at 8:34 PM on August 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
... nobody tell Trump!
seriously, don't tell him
posted by Barack Spinoza at 8:34 PM on August 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
So these just happened:
Donald J. Trump Retweeted
Jack Posobiec 🇺🇸
Jack Posobiec 🇺🇸 @JackPosobiec
Meanwhile: 39 shootings in Chicago this weekend, 9 deaths. No national media outrage. Why is that?
Donald J. Trump
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
Feels good to be home after seven months, but the White House is very special, there is no place like it... and the U.S. is really my home!
8:06 PM · Aug 14, 201
The US is really his home??
posted by Room 641-A at 8:36 PM on August 14, 2017 [27 favorites]
Donald J. Trump Retweeted
Jack Posobiec 🇺🇸
Jack Posobiec 🇺🇸 @JackPosobiec
Meanwhile: 39 shootings in Chicago this weekend, 9 deaths. No national media outrage. Why is that?
Donald J. Trump
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
Feels good to be home after seven months, but the White House is very special, there is no place like it... and the U.S. is really my home!
8:06 PM · Aug 14, 201
The US is really his home??
posted by Room 641-A at 8:36 PM on August 14, 2017 [27 favorites]
No way he wrote that one himself.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 8:38 PM on August 14, 2017
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 8:38 PM on August 14, 2017
He called the White House a dump 4 days ago and spent tonight watching birther throwbacks on FOX.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:39 PM on August 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:39 PM on August 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Holy Shit.
He retweeted another one too
Donald J. Trump Retweeted
Seth Morton 🇺🇸 @FiIibuster 5h5 hours ago
More
Replying to @realDonaldTrump
We have a President that is putting the security and prosperity of America first. Thank you, President Trump! #MAGA 🇺🇸
posted by Yowser at 8:42 PM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
He retweeted another one too
Donald J. Trump Retweeted
Seth Morton 🇺🇸 @FiIibuster 5h5 hours ago
More
Replying to @realDonaldTrump
We have a President that is putting the security and prosperity of America first. Thank you, President Trump! #MAGA 🇺🇸
posted by Yowser at 8:42 PM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
The US is really his home??
Ok now I kinda want to see his birth certificate.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:44 PM on August 14, 2017 [26 favorites]
Ok now I kinda want to see his birth certificate.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:44 PM on August 14, 2017 [26 favorites]
Donald J. Trump Retweeted
Jack Posobiec 🇺🇸
Jack Posobiec 🇺🇸 @JackPosobiec
Meanwhile: 39 shootings in Chicago this weekend, 9 deaths. No national media outrage. Why is that?
Here's a pic of Posobiec hanging out with Richard Spencer at the RNC.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:46 PM on August 14, 2017 [26 favorites]
Jack Posobiec 🇺🇸
Jack Posobiec 🇺🇸 @JackPosobiec
Meanwhile: 39 shootings in Chicago this weekend, 9 deaths. No national media outrage. Why is that?
Here's a pic of Posobiec hanging out with Richard Spencer at the RNC.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:46 PM on August 14, 2017 [26 favorites]
The US is really his home??
Birther bat-signal, no?
posted by Barack Spinoza at 8:47 PM on August 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
Birther bat-signal, no?
posted by Barack Spinoza at 8:47 PM on August 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
Jack Posobiec is an alt-reicher who pushed PizzaGate and Seth Rich conspiracies, showed up at Trump Tower with a Rape Melania sign to try to get it blamed on Ds, interrupted Shakespeare in the Park, and hung out with Richard Spencer at the RNC.
posted by chris24 at 8:48 PM on August 14, 2017 [39 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 8:48 PM on August 14, 2017 [39 favorites]
Jack Posobiec was the alt-right fuck that showed up with a false flag sign reading "rape Melania" for the inauguration Deploraball.
Just retweeted by the President himself.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:48 PM on August 14, 2017 [36 favorites]
Just retweeted by the President himself.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:48 PM on August 14, 2017 [36 favorites]
Jack Posobiec was also an employee of coughnotnazidontsuemeezracough Canadian organization Rebel Media (I feel like a broken drum at this point)
posted by Yowser at 8:55 PM on August 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 8:55 PM on August 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Scaramucci comes out to the sounds of Bohemian Rhapsody and boos: "I'll pretend those are mooches and not boos, Stephen"
Colbert keeps pressing him on why Trump "choked" when it was time to condemn white supremacists. When Scaramucci says Trump did it today, Colbert says "Two days later: does he order his spine on Amazon.com?"
The audience is not loving this guy one bit.
posted by zachlipton at 8:59 PM on August 14, 2017 [53 favorites]
Colbert keeps pressing him on why Trump "choked" when it was time to condemn white supremacists. When Scaramucci says Trump did it today, Colbert says "Two days later: does he order his spine on Amazon.com?"
The audience is not loving this guy one bit.
posted by zachlipton at 8:59 PM on August 14, 2017 [53 favorites]
Birther bat-signal, no?
Yep. You can either read it as a metaphorical homage to this country, or a slander on Obama. I know what I think.
posted by chris24 at 9:04 PM on August 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yep. You can either read it as a metaphorical homage to this country, or a slander on Obama. I know what I think.
posted by chris24 at 9:04 PM on August 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Posobiec is also the guy who marched into Comet Pizza with a video camera to "investigate," wandering into a child's birthday party in the back room. He was made to leave with the assistance of the police.
posted by zachlipton at 9:06 PM on August 14, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 9:06 PM on August 14, 2017 [18 favorites]
So let's recap today:
1 totally grudging, unwilling "racism, not good"
vs.
1 labeling of media as "bad people"
1 personal attack on African American CEO, no comment on white CEOs
1 possible pardon of vicious racist criminal
1 retweet of white supremacist nutjob
1 "Chicago is terrible" comment
1 birther reference
Did I miss anything?
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:13 PM on August 14, 2017 [35 favorites]
1 totally grudging, unwilling "racism, not good"
vs.
1 labeling of media as "bad people"
1 personal attack on African American CEO, no comment on white CEOs
1 possible pardon of vicious racist criminal
1 retweet of white supremacist nutjob
1 "Chicago is terrible" comment
1 birther reference
Did I miss anything?
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:13 PM on August 14, 2017 [35 favorites]
I think there were 2 retweets of white supremacist nutjobs.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:16 PM on August 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:16 PM on August 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
The Scramucci interview will presumably be on an internet near you soon enough, but I'd say the main takeaway was him saying that he doesn't think Bannon is a white supremacist, "but I don't like the toleration of it" from the White House.
I can't tell if the guy is angling his way for another political job or is just trying to salvage some semblance of his reputation so he can work in hedge funds again.
posted by zachlipton at 9:17 PM on August 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
I can't tell if the guy is angling his way for another political job or is just trying to salvage some semblance of his reputation so he can work in hedge funds again.
posted by zachlipton at 9:17 PM on August 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Did I miss anything?
- Emails detailing his foreign policy team trying to arrange meetings with Russians all the way up to Putin.
- Manafort linked to $850m deal and ongoing multi-million dollar annual payments with Russian oligarch close to Putin and Russian mobster.
posted by chris24 at 9:19 PM on August 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
- Emails detailing his foreign policy team trying to arrange meetings with Russians all the way up to Putin.
- Manafort linked to $850m deal and ongoing multi-million dollar annual payments with Russian oligarch close to Putin and Russian mobster.
posted by chris24 at 9:19 PM on August 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
The US is really his home??
I think he means it belongs to him, he owns it.
posted by scalefree at 9:20 PM on August 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
I think he means it belongs to him, he owns it.
posted by scalefree at 9:20 PM on August 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
So the Posobiec RT is the "don't worry, I'm still your guy" wink to the nazi assholes after the forced denunciation right
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:21 PM on August 14, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:21 PM on August 14, 2017 [29 favorites]
"toleration of" white supremacy is white supremacy. And we're to believe Mooch would've ousted Bannon if he had lasted more than 11 days? If you believe that I have 15 trillion $ of mortgage backed credit default swaps to sell you.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:24 PM on August 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:24 PM on August 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
@djrothkopf: We need to come to grips with the fact that Trump doesn't just play to the fringe or exploit the fringe he is part of the fringe.
This is bugging me, because it's stupid: of course we should have come to grips with this a long time ago, like when he started promoting birtherism perhaps. But replace trump with "the President of the United States" and, yea, it really is something we need to come to grips with. We knew who the man was already, but coming to terms with the fact that this is what the office is now, that's somehow still, inexplicably, a punch to the gut.
It's worth noting, Trump knows how to be proud of what he says and his on-camera performances. He knows how to boast about them. That he's retweeting Posobiec but not tweeting out video of him condemning Nazis says everything.
posted by zachlipton at 9:25 PM on August 14, 2017 [41 favorites]
This is bugging me, because it's stupid: of course we should have come to grips with this a long time ago, like when he started promoting birtherism perhaps. But replace trump with "the President of the United States" and, yea, it really is something we need to come to grips with. We knew who the man was already, but coming to terms with the fact that this is what the office is now, that's somehow still, inexplicably, a punch to the gut.
It's worth noting, Trump knows how to be proud of what he says and his on-camera performances. He knows how to boast about them. That he's retweeting Posobiec but not tweeting out video of him condemning Nazis says everything.
posted by zachlipton at 9:25 PM on August 14, 2017 [41 favorites]
1 possible pardon of vicious racist criminal
What?
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:28 PM on August 14, 2017
What?
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:28 PM on August 14, 2017
So let's recap today:
Did I miss anything?
- one day's worth of security detail costs (in NYC: $308,000) (there was a WaPo facebook stream earlier of his return to NYC and avoiding protesters)
1 possible pardon of vicious racist criminal
What?
He's considering pardoning Arpaio (see upthread).
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 9:32 PM on August 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Did I miss anything?
- one day's worth of security detail costs (in NYC: $308,000) (there was a WaPo facebook stream earlier of his return to NYC and avoiding protesters)
1 possible pardon of vicious racist criminal
What?
He's considering pardoning Arpaio (see upthread).
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 9:32 PM on August 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
He called the White House a dump 4 days ago
That was 4 days ago?!
$#*%.
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 9:35 PM on August 14, 2017 [37 favorites]
That was 4 days ago?!
$#*%.
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 9:35 PM on August 14, 2017 [37 favorites]
That was 4 days ago?!
Well, that's 36 Trumpdays, or the equivalent of 3 Scaramuccis.
posted by mmoncur at 9:43 PM on August 14, 2017 [34 favorites]
Well, that's 36 Trumpdays, or the equivalent of 3 Scaramuccis.
posted by mmoncur at 9:43 PM on August 14, 2017 [34 favorites]
He called the White House a dump 4 days ago
That was 4 days ago?!
$#*%.
The internet suggests that it was a couple of weeks ago but I honestly had a moment of confused panic.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 9:44 PM on August 14, 2017 [18 favorites]
That was 4 days ago?!
$#*%.
The internet suggests that it was a couple of weeks ago but I honestly had a moment of confused panic.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 9:44 PM on August 14, 2017 [18 favorites]
He called the White House a dump 4 days ago
Wait, that's not true. That's impossible.
Dear God.
posted by Yowser at 9:51 PM on August 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Wait, that's not true. That's impossible.
Dear God.
posted by Yowser at 9:51 PM on August 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
We need to come to grips with the fact that Trump doesn't just play to the fringe or exploit the fringe he is part of the fringe.
I feel like we all came to that understanding a year or more ago and everyone else only just seems to be catching up for some weird reason.
Still, maybe the whole thing where trump or the GOP can do weird nazi shit and everyone acts like it just isn't happening has ended? I hope? I mean, i wouldn't want to call it an "upside" as such given the horrors of the last few days but it feels like some corner has been turned, in terms of peoples ability to perceive the threat at least.
posted by Artw at 9:55 PM on August 14, 2017 [13 favorites]
I feel like we all came to that understanding a year or more ago and everyone else only just seems to be catching up for some weird reason.
Still, maybe the whole thing where trump or the GOP can do weird nazi shit and everyone acts like it just isn't happening has ended? I hope? I mean, i wouldn't want to call it an "upside" as such given the horrors of the last few days but it feels like some corner has been turned, in terms of peoples ability to perceive the threat at least.
posted by Artw at 9:55 PM on August 14, 2017 [13 favorites]
Still, maybe the whole thing where trump or the GOP can do weird nazi shit and everyone acts like it just isn't happening has ended?
Like Laura Ingraham's nazi salute at the Republican National Convention.
Totally white washed away.
posted by yesster at 10:08 PM on August 14, 2017 [21 favorites]
Like Laura Ingraham's nazi salute at the Republican National Convention.
Totally white washed away.
posted by yesster at 10:08 PM on August 14, 2017 [21 favorites]
Still, maybe the whole thing where trump or the GOP can do weird nazi shit and everyone acts like it just isn't happening has ended? I hope? I mean, i wouldn't want to call it an "upside" as such given the horrors of the last few days but it feels like some corner has been turned, in terms of peoples ability to perceive the threat at least.
One of the fun things about this era is finally being able to tell your closeted Nazi acquaintances that they're fucking Nazis.
"You. The things you believe. You did that. Answer for yourself or get out of my sight."
posted by saysthis at 10:09 PM on August 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
One of the fun things about this era is finally being able to tell your closeted Nazi acquaintances that they're fucking Nazis.
"You. The things you believe. You did that. Answer for yourself or get out of my sight."
posted by saysthis at 10:09 PM on August 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
Totally white washed away.
That was seriously fucking nuts. It was so blatant and there were even people here denying it. I felt like I was in a PKD novel or something.
posted by Artw at 10:11 PM on August 14, 2017 [30 favorites]
That was seriously fucking nuts. It was so blatant and there were even people here denying it. I felt like I was in a PKD novel or something.
posted by Artw at 10:11 PM on August 14, 2017 [30 favorites]
Camilla: You, sir, should unmask.
Stranger: Indeed?
Cassilda: Indeed, it's time. We have all laid aside disguise but you.
Stranger: I wear no mask.
Camilla: (Terrified, aside to Cassilda.) No mask? No mask!
posted by Artw at 10:14 PM on August 14, 2017 [14 favorites]
Stranger: Indeed?
Cassilda: Indeed, it's time. We have all laid aside disguise but you.
Stranger: I wear no mask.
Camilla: (Terrified, aside to Cassilda.) No mask? No mask!
posted by Artw at 10:14 PM on August 14, 2017 [14 favorites]
Mask on
Fuck it, mask off
Mask on
Fuck it, mask off
- Future
But seriously, do we know if any of the "mainstream" GOP are having any kind of self-reckoning here? I mean, McCain and Ryan and even Cruz (who barely counts as mainstream but whatevs) put out some alright statements, contrasting with Trump's. But does anyone know if this is anything more than just empty words? Are any of the mainstream GOP realizing just exactly how okay their colleagues are with racism? Or is there really no way through there?
posted by mhum at 10:20 PM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Fuck it, mask off
Mask on
Fuck it, mask off
- Future
But seriously, do we know if any of the "mainstream" GOP are having any kind of self-reckoning here? I mean, McCain and Ryan and even Cruz (who barely counts as mainstream but whatevs) put out some alright statements, contrasting with Trump's. But does anyone know if this is anything more than just empty words? Are any of the mainstream GOP realizing just exactly how okay their colleagues are with racism? Or is there really no way through there?
posted by mhum at 10:20 PM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
So it turns out Jack Posobiec is an *active* Naval Officer.
Just in case anyone was worried about Nazis infiltrating your army's command structure or anything.
posted by Yowser at 11:12 PM on August 14, 2017 [32 favorites]
Just in case anyone was worried about Nazis infiltrating your army's command structure or anything.
posted by Yowser at 11:12 PM on August 14, 2017 [32 favorites]
The current environment must change, or else our nation will become a shadow of what it once was and what it still can and should be.
#MadeAmericaGoAway
posted by flabdablet at 11:16 PM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
#MadeAmericaGoAway
posted by flabdablet at 11:16 PM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
So it turns out Jack Posobiec is an *active* Naval Officer.
How would the "rape Melania" thing NOT be a dishonorable discharge???? HOW??
posted by greermahoney at 11:22 PM on August 14, 2017 [61 favorites]
How would the "rape Melania" thing NOT be a dishonorable discharge???? HOW??
posted by greermahoney at 11:22 PM on August 14, 2017 [61 favorites]
That's what a lot of navy types are trying to figure out right now. Turns out what he's been up to might not be strictly speaking, shall we say "conventional" for a naval officer, and it's just now that anyone actually cared who's actually in the navy.
(He has security clearance and is an intel officer, just in case your nightmares of Nazi infiltration aren't intense enough)
posted by Yowser at 11:43 PM on August 14, 2017 [36 favorites]
(He has security clearance and is an intel officer, just in case your nightmares of Nazi infiltration aren't intense enough)
posted by Yowser at 11:43 PM on August 14, 2017 [36 favorites]
Just in case you're wondering HOW?? , so are they...
posted by Yowser at 11:45 PM on August 14, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 11:45 PM on August 14, 2017 [16 favorites]
The King in Orange is equally insanity-inducing for an entirely different list of reasons.
posted by Archelaus at 1:44 AM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Archelaus at 1:44 AM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
Just in case you're wondering HOW??
In addition to that, I'm wondering HOW?? many other officers in the military share Posobiec's views, but are not stupid enough to be all over the internet with them?
Trying not to be paranoid... Trying not to be paranoid...
posted by Rykey at 3:29 AM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
In addition to that, I'm wondering HOW?? many other officers in the military share Posobiec's views, but are not stupid enough to be all over the internet with them?
Trying not to be paranoid... Trying not to be paranoid...
posted by Rykey at 3:29 AM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
So it turns out Jack Posobiec is an *active* Naval Officer.
No, he is a serving Naval Reserve officer. Just like Sean Spicer. (And a few MeFites, wink wink.) He is able to make political statements on his own time as long as he does not claim to be representing the Navy when he does so.
posted by Etrigan at 3:58 AM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
No, he is a serving Naval Reserve officer. Just like Sean Spicer. (And a few MeFites, wink wink.) He is able to make political statements on his own time as long as he does not claim to be representing the Navy when he does so.
posted by Etrigan at 3:58 AM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
But seriously, do we know if any of the "mainstream" GOP are having any kind of self-reckoning here? I mean, McCain and Ryan and even Cruz (who barely counts as mainstream but whatevs) put out some alright statements, contrasting with Trump's. But does anyone know if this is anything more than just empty words? Are any of the mainstream GOP realizing just exactly how okay their colleagues are with racism? Or is there really no way through there?
Well, Brooks wrote a column. I don't know what he means by modesty (he promises a follow-up), but to be fair, he does finally look the beast in the eye. He takes the first step, but fails to recognize that the Republicans depend on manipulating the far right and the crazy Christians for votes, and there is no "modest" way out of that until they dramatically change their politics. Which they won't, because they are beholden to freakishly evil billionaires.
From the article:
Well, Brooks wrote a column. I don't know what he means by modesty (he promises a follow-up), but to be fair, he does finally look the beast in the eye. He takes the first step, but fails to recognize that the Republicans depend on manipulating the far right and the crazy Christians for votes, and there is no "modest" way out of that until they dramatically change their politics. Which they won't, because they are beholden to freakishly evil billionaires.
From the article:
Trump gave people a quick pass out of anxiety. Everything could be blamed on foreigners, the idiotic elites. The problems are clear, and the answers are easy. He has loosed a certain style of thinking. The true link between the Trump administration and those pathetic loons in Charlottesville is not just bigotry, but also conspiracy mongering.posted by mumimor at 4:04 AM on August 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
In the White House you have pseudo-intellectuals like Steve Bannon who think the world is secretly controlled by the “deep state.” You have memos like the one written by the recently fired Rich Higgins, positing a massive worldwide conspiracy involving the A.C.L.U., the Muslim Brotherhood, the United Nations and global Marxism. The alt-right, which has emerged in support of the Trump administration, is marked by the same conspiratorial epistemology. It provides explanations for complex events that allow its followers to avoid anxiety. The leaders of the alt-right claim to possess superior understanding that pierces through the myths that blind common mortals.
The world is secretly controlled by the globalists. The Sandy Hook school shooting never happened. There’s a child abuse ring run by Clintonites out of a pizzeria in Northwest D.C. All the ambiguities of life can be explained by pointing to the malevolent webs of secret power that only you — you precious, superior few — can see and understand.
From here it’s a short leap to those losers in Charlottesville. If the alt-right thinks the globalists secretly and malevolently control society, the neo-Nazis go back to the original version and believe that a conspiracy of Jewish bankers does. For them, tribalism is not only a way to feel some vestige of pride in their own lonely selves, it’s also an explanatory tool. The world can be a bewildering place, but not if you see it as a righteous war between whites and blacks, between straights and gays. The neo-Nazis are not the first group to discover that war is a force that can give an empty life meaning, even a race war.
The age of anxiety inevitably leads to an age of fanaticism, as people seek crude palliatives for the dizziness of freedom. I’m beginning to think the whole depressing spectacle of this moment — the Trump presidency and beyond — is caused by a breakdown of intellectual virtue, a breakdown in America’s ability to face evidence objectively, to pay due respect to reality, to deal with complex and unpleasant truths. The intellectual virtues may seem elitist, but once a country tolerates dishonesty, incuriosity and intellectual laziness, then everything else falls apart.
But who is the audience for people like David Brooks these days? Doesn't he primarily function as the NYT's token right-winger?
The GOP has been almost completely taken over by conspiracists and extremists. The whole Weekly Standard flavor of American conservatism just seems laughably anachronistic today - a bunch of fogies talking about a landscape that hasn't existed for a long, long time. I'd love to be wrong, but it seems like the time to address this cancer in their party was, oh, at least twenty years ago.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 4:32 AM on August 15, 2017 [29 favorites]
The GOP has been almost completely taken over by conspiracists and extremists. The whole Weekly Standard flavor of American conservatism just seems laughably anachronistic today - a bunch of fogies talking about a landscape that hasn't existed for a long, long time. I'd love to be wrong, but it seems like the time to address this cancer in their party was, oh, at least twenty years ago.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 4:32 AM on August 15, 2017 [29 favorites]
Weird. Trump just retweeted what I can only assume was a Russian bot and then deleted the retweet. Guess someone noticed the bot's pinned tweet was an insanely offensive meme about Islam.
posted by Room 101 at 4:39 AM on August 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Room 101 at 4:39 AM on August 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
From above: WaPo -- Analysis: On Twitter, Trump Accuses Blacks of Racism Three Times As Often As Whites.
I just wanted to point out that I scooped The Washington Post on this.
At the time I wrote this, those whom Trump called racist were black, Jewish, or female. Letterman (whom I did not include) was said to have made a racist remark.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 4:43 AM on August 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
I just wanted to point out that I scooped The Washington Post on this.
At the time I wrote this, those whom Trump called racist were black, Jewish, or female. Letterman (whom I did not include) was said to have made a racist remark.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 4:43 AM on August 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
Slate has a late night monologue roundup (with transcripts; this is not something you'd need a TV to understand); even Fallon came out swinging.
posted by uncleozzy at 4:48 AM on August 15, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by uncleozzy at 4:48 AM on August 15, 2017 [18 favorites]
Presidential. (And now deleted)
@kylegriffin1: (MSNBC)
Trump RT'd this pic showing a CNN journalist hit by a train days after a white nationalist ran his car into activists, killed Heather Heyer.
IMAGE
posted by chris24 at 4:51 AM on August 15, 2017 [36 favorites]
@kylegriffin1: (MSNBC)
Trump RT'd this pic showing a CNN journalist hit by a train days after a white nationalist ran his car into activists, killed Heather Heyer.
IMAGE
posted by chris24 at 4:51 AM on August 15, 2017 [36 favorites]
For the second time in a little over a month, somebody has used a rock to smash one of the panels in Boston's Holocaust Memorial
An actual Night of Broken Glass is a little too on-the-nose, 2017.
posted by zombieflanders at 4:56 AM on August 15, 2017 [27 favorites]
An actual Night of Broken Glass is a little too on-the-nose, 2017.
posted by zombieflanders at 4:56 AM on August 15, 2017 [27 favorites]
Doesn't he primarily function as the NYT's token right-winger?
Ross Douthat.
Bret Stephens.
posted by zarq at 5:05 AM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Ross Douthat.
Bret Stephens.
posted by zarq at 5:05 AM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
I believe Brooks holds the Murray Chair in the NYT's storied Race Science department.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:16 AM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:16 AM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
And the man has nukes.
@ditzkoff: (NYT)
since last night the president has RT'd
- a conspiracy theorist
- trump train hitting CNN (deleted)
- critic calling him a fascist (unRT'd)
[Screenshots]
posted by chris24 at 5:22 AM on August 15, 2017 [15 favorites]
@ditzkoff: (NYT)
since last night the president has RT'd
- a conspiracy theorist
- trump train hitting CNN (deleted)
- critic calling him a fascist (unRT'd)
[Screenshots]
posted by chris24 at 5:22 AM on August 15, 2017 [15 favorites]
The Latest: Trump asked to fire 3 White House staffers (AP)
Pete Souza lands a punch.
Birther bat-signal, no?
That was my first thought, but it's so stupid. He never accused Obama of not living in the US; the US was obviously his home. Or he meant the White House and got confused. It makes no sen-- oh. Never mind.posted by Room 641-A at 5:38 AM on August 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
The leaders of four minority House caucus groups have written a letter to President Donald Trump calling for the removal of White House staff aides Steve Bannon, Stephen Miller and Sebastian GorkaNo cash for hate, say mainstream crowdfunding firms (Reuters/Raw Story)
Pete Souza lands a punch.
Birther bat-signal, no?
That was my first thought, but it's so stupid. He never accused Obama of not living in the US; the US was obviously his home. Or he meant the White House and got confused. It makes no sen-- oh. Never mind.posted by Room 641-A at 5:38 AM on August 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
It looks like the President can pardon criminal contempt, which is what Arpaio was convicted of.
DOJ PARDON INFORMATION AND INSTRUCTIONS
3. Five-year waiting period required
Under the Department's rules governing petitions for executive clemency, 28 C.F.R. §§ 1.1 et seq., an applicant must satisfy a minimum waiting period of five years before he becomes eligible to apply for a presidential pardon of his federal conviction. The waiting period, which is designed to afford the petitioner a reasonable period of time in which to demonstrate an ability to lead a responsible, productive and law-abiding life, begins on the date of the petitioner's release from confinement. Alternatively, if the conviction resulted in a sentence that did not include any form of confinement, including community or home confinement, the waiting period begins on the date of sentencing. In addition, the petitioner should have fully satisfied the penalty imposed, including all probation, parole, or supervised release before applying for clemency. Moreover, the waiting period begins upon release from confinement for your most recent conviction, whether or not this is the offense for which pardon is sought. You may make a written request for a waiver of this requirement. However, waiver of any portion of the waiting period is rarely granted and then only in the most exceptional circumstances. In order to request a waiver, you must complete the pardon application form and submit it with a cover letter explaining why you believe the waiting period should be waived in your case.
(Emphasis mine)
posted by Room 641-A at 5:57 AM on August 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
DOJ PARDON INFORMATION AND INSTRUCTIONS
3. Five-year waiting period required
Under the Department's rules governing petitions for executive clemency, 28 C.F.R. §§ 1.1 et seq., an applicant must satisfy a minimum waiting period of five years before he becomes eligible to apply for a presidential pardon of his federal conviction. The waiting period, which is designed to afford the petitioner a reasonable period of time in which to demonstrate an ability to lead a responsible, productive and law-abiding life, begins on the date of the petitioner's release from confinement. Alternatively, if the conviction resulted in a sentence that did not include any form of confinement, including community or home confinement, the waiting period begins on the date of sentencing. In addition, the petitioner should have fully satisfied the penalty imposed, including all probation, parole, or supervised release before applying for clemency. Moreover, the waiting period begins upon release from confinement for your most recent conviction, whether or not this is the offense for which pardon is sought. You may make a written request for a waiver of this requirement. However, waiver of any portion of the waiting period is rarely granted and then only in the most exceptional circumstances. In order to request a waiver, you must complete the pardon application form and submit it with a cover letter explaining why you believe the waiting period should be waived in your case.
(Emphasis mine)
posted by Room 641-A at 5:57 AM on August 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
DOJ demands identifying information of visitors to anti-Trump website
posted by nubs at 5:57 AM on August 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by nubs at 5:57 AM on August 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
That was my first thought, but it's so stupid.
...and?
posted by thelonius at 6:01 AM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
...and?
posted by thelonius at 6:01 AM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Going fast now isn't it.
US government demands details on all visitors to anti-Trump protest website, whilest there is The Dangerous Politicization of the Military.
The FBI has been quietly investigating White Supremecist infiltration of Law enforcement.
As far back as 2012 Reuters was reporting U.S. Army battling racists within its own ranks.
posted by adamvasco at 6:06 AM on August 15, 2017 [25 favorites]
US government demands details on all visitors to anti-Trump protest website, whilest there is The Dangerous Politicization of the Military.
The FBI has been quietly investigating White Supremecist infiltration of Law enforcement.
As far back as 2012 Reuters was reporting U.S. Army battling racists within its own ranks.
posted by adamvasco at 6:06 AM on August 15, 2017 [25 favorites]
That's if Arpaio applies for clemency. But why should such a Great American have to formally apply?
posted by delfin at 6:07 AM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by delfin at 6:07 AM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
DOJ demands identifying information of visitors to anti-Trump website
Dreamhost might not be the best web host, but they're pretty cheap, and they're standing up to this nonsense, so good on them.
posted by uncleozzy at 6:12 AM on August 15, 2017 [17 favorites]
Dreamhost might not be the best web host, but they're pretty cheap, and they're standing up to this nonsense, so good on them.
posted by uncleozzy at 6:12 AM on August 15, 2017 [17 favorites]
DOJ demands identifying information of visitors to anti-Trump website
This includes “names, addresses, telephone numbers and other identifiers, e-mail addresses, business information, the length of service (including start date), means and source of payment for services (including any credit card or bank account number), and information about any domain name registration.”
posted by Room 641-A at 6:18 AM on August 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
This includes “names, addresses, telephone numbers and other identifiers, e-mail addresses, business information, the length of service (including start date), means and source of payment for services (including any credit card or bank account number), and information about any domain name registration.”
posted by Room 641-A at 6:18 AM on August 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
Rules Governing Petitions for Executive Clemency
Standards for Consideration of Clemency Petitions
As Delfin points out, those are the DOJ's rules for people who are asking for pardon/commutation. There are no such limits on the power the constitution extends to the president.
from James Pfiffner, Professor of Public Policy at George Mason University:
Standards for Consideration of Clemency Petitions
As Delfin points out, those are the DOJ's rules for people who are asking for pardon/commutation. There are no such limits on the power the constitution extends to the president.
The President...shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.At absolute best there might be processing limits/guidance for what happens after he grants, but even then I suspect that the Supreme Court would (rightly, sadly) say that such stuff is irrelevant - a person is pardoned the moment the President signs the paper.
from James Pfiffner, Professor of Public Policy at George Mason University:
The scope of the pardon power remains quite broad, almost plenary. As Justice Stephen Field wrote in Ex parte Garland (1867), "If granted before conviction, it prevents any of the penalties and disabilities consequent upon conviction from attaching [thereto]; if granted after conviction, it removes the penalties and disabilities, and restores him to all his civil rights; it makes him, as it were, a new man, and gives him a new credit and capacity....A pardon reaches both the punishment prescribed for the offence and the guilt of the offender....so that in the eye of the law the offender is as innocent as if he had never committed the offence." A pardon is valid whether accepted or not, because its purposes are primarily public. It is an official act. According to United States v. Klein (1871), Congress cannot limit the President's grant of an amnesty or pardon, but it can grant other or further amnesties itself. Though pardons have been litigated, the Court has consistently refused to limit the President's discretion.posted by phearlez at 6:21 AM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Dreamhosts's Opposition Motion is great reading.
posted by mikelieman at 6:25 AM on August 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by mikelieman at 6:25 AM on August 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
Well, he probably would have ignored those guideline anyway. Asshole.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:39 AM on August 15, 2017
posted by Room 641-A at 6:39 AM on August 15, 2017
Someone could probably make a post about this.
A Top Lawyer Asks Supreme Court To Hear A Major Death Penalty Case
In a new filing, Neal Katyal is asking the high court to consider Arizona’s death penalty law — and whether the death penalty itself is unconstitutional (Chris Geidner, BuzzFeed News)
A Top Lawyer Asks Supreme Court To Hear A Major Death Penalty Case
In a new filing, Neal Katyal is asking the high court to consider Arizona’s death penalty law — and whether the death penalty itself is unconstitutional (Chris Geidner, BuzzFeed News)
WASHINGTON — One of the country’s top lawyers is asking the Supreme Court to take up a case that could reshape — or even end — the death penalty in America.posted by Room 641-A at 7:00 AM on August 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
The aggressive filing comes as the Supreme Court is already set to hear a high-profile series of cases.
An Arizona death row inmate, Abel Daniel Hidalgo, has been arguing for the past three years that the state’s death penalty law is unconstitutional because it doesn’t do enough to narrow who is eligible for the death penalty, among those convicted of murder.
Earlier this year, Neal Katyal, best known these days for serving as the lead lawyer for Hawaii’s challenge to President Trump’s travel ban, agreed to serve as Hidalgo’s lawyer at the Supreme Court.
For me (and I imagine a few of you were ahead of me on the learning curve), I've just come to the realization that Trump is a white supremacist.
Before that I would have said he is a racist - and I still held on to the possibility that he is just evil and using race to divide people while not personally racist.
But now, all of the recent events say to me, he doesn't just use white supremacists: he is one. I suspect his father with a KKK perspective raised him that way.
It is somewhat the same with his intelligence. I would have said eight months ago that he says stupid things. And now I fully believe he is just stupid and seemingly incapable of being smart. (Seminal moments: the digital catapults and the transcript of his talk with the Australian prime minister)
Remember when there was the notion that maybe Trump would be a wild card in terms of conservative / liberal? All of his choices have been reactionary.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:06 AM on August 15, 2017 [59 favorites]
Before that I would have said he is a racist - and I still held on to the possibility that he is just evil and using race to divide people while not personally racist.
But now, all of the recent events say to me, he doesn't just use white supremacists: he is one. I suspect his father with a KKK perspective raised him that way.
It is somewhat the same with his intelligence. I would have said eight months ago that he says stupid things. And now I fully believe he is just stupid and seemingly incapable of being smart. (Seminal moments: the digital catapults and the transcript of his talk with the Australian prime minister)
Remember when there was the notion that maybe Trump would be a wild card in terms of conservative / liberal? All of his choices have been reactionary.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:06 AM on August 15, 2017 [59 favorites]
I’m beginning to think the whole depressing spectacle of this moment — the Trump presidency and beyond — is caused by a breakdown of intellectual virtue, a breakdown in America’s ability to face evidence objectively, to pay due respect to reality, to deal with complex and unpleasant truths. The intellectual virtues may seem elitist, but once a country tolerates dishonesty, incuriosity and intellectual laziness, then everything else falls apart.
It's a sign that there is no heaven and all the demons are here that David Brooks wrote this without the words themselves squealing in protest at the injustice of David Brooks accusing America of tolerating people like David Brooks.
The fact that his publisher put that in the paper without so much as an editorial note is somehow even worse.
posted by Merus at 7:18 AM on August 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
It's a sign that there is no heaven and all the demons are here that David Brooks wrote this without the words themselves squealing in protest at the injustice of David Brooks accusing America of tolerating people like David Brooks.
The fact that his publisher put that in the paper without so much as an editorial note is somehow even worse.
posted by Merus at 7:18 AM on August 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
I’m beginning to think the whole depressing spectacle of this moment — the Trump presidency and beyond — is caused by a breakdown of intellectual virtue, a breakdown in America’s ability to face evidence objectively, to pay due respect to reality, to deal with complex and unpleasant truths. The intellectual virtues may seem elitist, but once a country tolerates dishonesty, incuriosity and intellectual laziness, then everything else falls apart.
With due respect to our broader-minded Christian friends, I think this started with our desire to be patient with and inclusive of fundamentalists whose views flew in the face of facts, science, and measurable data. We "respected their beliefs" by letting them "have their own facts" and that particular breed of stupid spread through conservatism like kudzu on an abandoned Mississippi gas station.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:21 AM on August 15, 2017 [48 favorites]
With due respect to our broader-minded Christian friends, I think this started with our desire to be patient with and inclusive of fundamentalists whose views flew in the face of facts, science, and measurable data. We "respected their beliefs" by letting them "have their own facts" and that particular breed of stupid spread through conservatism like kudzu on an abandoned Mississippi gas station.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:21 AM on August 15, 2017 [48 favorites]
Trump's father raised him on "racehorse theory." Racehorse theory is identical to eugenics. Which is why I am not surprised that he retweeted that Trump Train photo. The originator of that image calls Wolf Blitzer "CNN's Zionist Agent." That's pretty much all you need to know about the kind of people who impress DJT. If I didn't already know racists who have blended families I would be shocked, but now I just accept that people can compartmentalize just about anything if it protects them from discomfort.
I feel like I live in a vat of cortisol.
posted by xyzzy at 7:24 AM on August 15, 2017 [63 favorites]
I feel like I live in a vat of cortisol.
posted by xyzzy at 7:24 AM on August 15, 2017 [63 favorites]
The middle-of-the-road media outlets are partly to blame for this last week too, as their insistence to treat whether Trump is racist as a matter open to interpretation gives latitude to the worst fucking people.
Is he racist? Well, he says racist things, does racist things, has been sued for racism, is the son of a Klansman, got to office by promising racist policies, is working with racists to enact said racist policies, is overwhelmingly seen as racist by people of color, and is constantly congratulated by self-proclaimed racists for how fucking good he is at racism.
I don't think you need an ace investigative team to crack this particular fucking story, CNN. Say the fucking word.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:25 AM on August 15, 2017 [149 favorites]
Is he racist? Well, he says racist things, does racist things, has been sued for racism, is the son of a Klansman, got to office by promising racist policies, is working with racists to enact said racist policies, is overwhelmingly seen as racist by people of color, and is constantly congratulated by self-proclaimed racists for how fucking good he is at racism.
I don't think you need an ace investigative team to crack this particular fucking story, CNN. Say the fucking word.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:25 AM on August 15, 2017 [149 favorites]
> But now, all of the recent events say to me, he doesn't just use white supremacists: he is one. I suspect his father with a KKK perspective raised him that way.
I have been wondering how much evidence of his involvement with orgs like the KKK is going to come out in the wash. And whether things like his ad about the Central Park Five, and involvement with the Birther movement were him acting as in the role of the legitimate-businessman-wing of far right mafia families.
There's certainly a fair amount of evidence that he's reading various far right sites/commentators, including for e.g. re-posting a smug pepe meme (doing the OK sign that may or may not be a white power hand gesture [it started out as an "ironic" troll, but seems to be in genuine use now] { I looked it up because apparently Trump was making it during his eventual disavowel of the KKK/Nazis }).
There's also his obsession with his superior German genes.
posted by Buntix at 7:31 AM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
I have been wondering how much evidence of his involvement with orgs like the KKK is going to come out in the wash. And whether things like his ad about the Central Park Five, and involvement with the Birther movement were him acting as in the role of the legitimate-businessman-wing of far right mafia families.
There's certainly a fair amount of evidence that he's reading various far right sites/commentators, including for e.g. re-posting a smug pepe meme (doing the OK sign that may or may not be a white power hand gesture [it started out as an "ironic" troll, but seems to be in genuine use now] { I looked it up because apparently Trump was making it during his eventual disavowel of the KKK/Nazis }).
There's also his obsession with his superior German genes.
posted by Buntix at 7:31 AM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
sometimes I feel like we're all being punished by some God thing who is all, want to see what happens when you elect a racist demagogue, here you go, and we get a year of this and wake up on the morning of 11/8, cold and sweaty
posted by angrycat at 7:32 AM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 7:32 AM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
Sebastian Gorka's wife apparently was the animating force behind the decision to withdraw Life After Hate's $400,000 grant from Obama. According to the co-founder, Life After Hate is one of two major organizations that work on race hatred in America. The other is the FBI.
And in case anyone is still hoping that Kelly might be one of the good guys:
posted by xyzzy at 7:58 AM on August 15, 2017 [38 favorites]
And in case anyone is still hoping that Kelly might be one of the good guys:
Once Trump entered the White House in January, the office of then-DHS Secretary John Kelly ordered a full review of the Countering Violent Extremism program. Kelly’s office wanted to re-vet the groups receiving a portion of the $10 million Congress had appropriated for the program — even though DHS had already publicly announced the grant recipients.So. There's that.
posted by xyzzy at 7:58 AM on August 15, 2017 [38 favorites]
Kelly may be one of the adults, but he's definitely not one of the good guys.
posted by TwoWordReview at 8:12 AM on August 15, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by TwoWordReview at 8:12 AM on August 15, 2017 [19 favorites]
sometimes I feel like we're all being punished by some God thing who is all, want to see what happens when you elect a racist demagogue, here you go, and we get a year of this and wake up on the morning of 11/8, cold and sweaty
Days before the election I had a conversation about the stupid wall and how there was no way he was going to be able to start building his stupid wall after being sworn in. Moot anyways I said cause Hillary is likely going to win. But hey in my dream world I could 'save game', see what happens when he's elected and how he isn't going to be building the stupid wall, see how big of a fuck up he is and then after six months just reload and get on with real life. Ha ha
I am haunted by this.
posted by Jalliah at 8:15 AM on August 15, 2017 [18 favorites]
Days before the election I had a conversation about the stupid wall and how there was no way he was going to be able to start building his stupid wall after being sworn in. Moot anyways I said cause Hillary is likely going to win. But hey in my dream world I could 'save game', see what happens when he's elected and how he isn't going to be building the stupid wall, see how big of a fuck up he is and then after six months just reload and get on with real life. Ha ha
I am haunted by this.
posted by Jalliah at 8:15 AM on August 15, 2017 [18 favorites]
So it turns out Jack Posobiec is an *active* Naval Officer.
No, he is a serving Naval Reserve officer. Just like Sean Spicer. (And a few MeFites, wink wink.) He is able to make political statements on his own time as long as he does not claim to be representing the Navy when he does so.
Still defies understanding how he hasn't been thrown the fuck out, though. Being caught in public wearing a shirt advocating rape--of anyone, much less the first lady--ought to be a one-way ticket to "conduct unbecoming."
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:15 AM on August 15, 2017 [23 favorites]
No, he is a serving Naval Reserve officer. Just like Sean Spicer. (And a few MeFites, wink wink.) He is able to make political statements on his own time as long as he does not claim to be representing the Navy when he does so.
Still defies understanding how he hasn't been thrown the fuck out, though. Being caught in public wearing a shirt advocating rape--of anyone, much less the first lady--ought to be a one-way ticket to "conduct unbecoming."
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:15 AM on August 15, 2017 [23 favorites]
I think maybe a certain amount of mythologizing around the military may have given rise to unrealistic expectations.
posted by Artw at 8:22 AM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:22 AM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
If they say that calling for someone to be raped IOKIYAC, then does that mean that American conservatism now guides itself by the same moral compass as villages in the mountainous Taliban-ruled hinterland of Pakistan?
posted by acb at 8:25 AM on August 15, 2017
posted by acb at 8:25 AM on August 15, 2017
The bigger implication of all the alt-right re-tweets, which kills me the media doesn't directly focus on, is why is trump seeing them in the first place? I think at first it was (barely) plausible that he was searching for positive tweets about himself, or someone showed him a tweet he enjoyed (think back to the excuses after the hilary-star of david spectacle). But this has been going on for well over a year. Literally impossible to state that he is randomly seeing these tweets, it is blatantly clear that his twitter feed is made up of alt-right trolls.
So, the media is clear about calling out the alt-right for what it is. Racist, backwards, wrong etc. No leniency or shades of grey like other conservative movements (tea party), the alt right is entirely racist and in the wrong.
Trump consistently retweets things from the alt-right.
Trump claims that he is not a racist.
We need these dots clearly connected to show the logical fallacy at play here. It is disgusting he is getting away with these continued winks and nods because they are exactly that, not official statements open to more intense scrunity. Every white supremacist and neo-nazi 100% gets what trump is doing with these re-tweets. It was bad enough after the fake apology yesterday, which I'm sure many on the alt-right already saw as the "forced statement" that it was. But then he immediately goes around and throws some more red meat on the KKK grill? Directly contradicting what he said yesterday?
25th amendment NOW.
posted by andruwjones26 at 8:25 AM on August 15, 2017 [38 favorites]
So, the media is clear about calling out the alt-right for what it is. Racist, backwards, wrong etc. No leniency or shades of grey like other conservative movements (tea party), the alt right is entirely racist and in the wrong.
Trump consistently retweets things from the alt-right.
Trump claims that he is not a racist.
We need these dots clearly connected to show the logical fallacy at play here. It is disgusting he is getting away with these continued winks and nods because they are exactly that, not official statements open to more intense scrunity. Every white supremacist and neo-nazi 100% gets what trump is doing with these re-tweets. It was bad enough after the fake apology yesterday, which I'm sure many on the alt-right already saw as the "forced statement" that it was. But then he immediately goes around and throws some more red meat on the KKK grill? Directly contradicting what he said yesterday?
25th amendment NOW.
posted by andruwjones26 at 8:25 AM on August 15, 2017 [38 favorites]
I think maybe a certain amount of mythologizing around the military may have given rise to unrealistic expectations.
Egypt and Pakistan nod their heads in recognition of this problem.
posted by rc3spencer at 8:26 AM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Egypt and Pakistan nod their heads in recognition of this problem.
posted by rc3spencer at 8:26 AM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
I think maybe a certain amount of mythologizing around the military may have given rise to unrealistic expectations.
It's not so much that as the fact I've seen people thrown out on their ass for far less. But mileage always varies and I don't know who is in this asshole's chain of command. Probably a whole lot of other people the Navy could do well without, too.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:41 AM on August 15, 2017
It's not so much that as the fact I've seen people thrown out on their ass for far less. But mileage always varies and I don't know who is in this asshole's chain of command. Probably a whole lot of other people the Navy could do well without, too.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:41 AM on August 15, 2017
I was just reading that twitter thread, and after following some of the comment rabbit hole discovered that the AFL-CIO is "re-evaluating" their presence on the CEO council.
posted by xyzzy at 8:44 AM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 8:44 AM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Trump on David Duke (who he "does not know about") then and now (NBC News)
Hallie Jackson (MSNBC) So why is Trump [doing thing]?
Michael Steel (Former RNC Chair): Who the hell knows?
posted by Room 641-A at 8:47 AM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Hallie Jackson (MSNBC) So why is Trump [doing thing]?
Michael Steel (Former RNC Chair): Who the hell knows?
posted by Room 641-A at 8:47 AM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Another CEO resignation from the council
Between this and the thread-tweet above, finally feeling optimistic about the direction this week is heading
posted by andruwjones26 at 8:50 AM on August 15, 2017 [24 favorites]
Between this and the thread-tweet above, finally feeling optimistic about the direction this week is heading
posted by andruwjones26 at 8:50 AM on August 15, 2017 [24 favorites]
I'd really love to see everyone drop out. Boeing's CEO in particular, though given how dependent they are on government contracts I can't imagine him leaving unless he and Lockheed's CEO decided to drop out together.
What a great thing that would be. Not something to realistically expect, but I can dream.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:53 AM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
What a great thing that would be. Not something to realistically expect, but I can dream.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:53 AM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'd really love to see everyone drop out.
I saw a useful comment on Twitter last night: You do not want to be the last CEO on Trump's manufacturing council.
posted by suelac at 8:55 AM on August 15, 2017 [73 favorites]
I saw a useful comment on Twitter last night: You do not want to be the last CEO on Trump's manufacturing council.
posted by suelac at 8:55 AM on August 15, 2017 [73 favorites]
Turns out Scott Paul dropped out 16 minutes after Trump called the other pullouts "grandstanders" on Twitter.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:56 AM on August 15, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:56 AM on August 15, 2017 [18 favorites]
Everyone will not drop out, but I am excited that this most recent announcement happened less than 30 minutes after the president* got on twitter to bully the rest of them into staying and brag about how many more people were ready to join up for every CEO that steps down. Its the start of business culture realizing that the word of the white house doesn't mean shit anymore (as will be evidenced by the fact that the replacements will be slow to come and of a decidedly lower caliber than the 'big names' they are replacing).
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 8:57 AM on August 15, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 8:57 AM on August 15, 2017 [24 favorites]
Given the ineffectiveness of the administration, was this council actually going to get anything done? Could these guys leaving set up their own council and advise the Senate instead?
posted by like_neon at 9:03 AM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by like_neon at 9:03 AM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Discord shut down the altright.com discord server (link is to twitter announcement) as well as accounts associated with the CVille white supremacist protests.
posted by xyzzy at 9:07 AM on August 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 9:07 AM on August 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
The CSPAN Trump Tower lobbycam is back up.
Took a peek and am re-reminded of an observation Ian Hilsop made on Have I Got News For You - he was remarking on that famous photo of Trump with Nigel Farage and described Trump Towers' decor style as "Late Qaddafi".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:08 AM on August 15, 2017 [17 favorites]
Took a peek and am re-reminded of an observation Ian Hilsop made on Have I Got News For You - he was remarking on that famous photo of Trump with Nigel Farage and described Trump Towers' decor style as "Late Qaddafi".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:08 AM on August 15, 2017 [17 favorites]
well, donnie, we could argue all day whether you were legitimately elected to be our leader
it's getting to the point where it doesn't matter
you can't be our leader if so many people won't follow you - not just me - people you recruited and actually placed faith in are quitting you
posted by pyramid termite at 9:10 AM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
it's getting to the point where it doesn't matter
you can't be our leader if so many people won't follow you - not just me - people you recruited and actually placed faith in are quitting you
posted by pyramid termite at 9:10 AM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
In case you thought GOP "moderates" were sane.
@GovernorPataki:
Kid Rock is exactly the kind of candidate the GOP needs right now. #KidRockForSenate @KidRock
http://loudwire.com/kid-rock-senate-run-nod-of-support-republican-super-pac/
posted by chris24 at 9:10 AM on August 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
@GovernorPataki:
Kid Rock is exactly the kind of candidate the GOP needs right now. #KidRockForSenate @KidRock
http://loudwire.com/kid-rock-senate-run-nod-of-support-republican-super-pac/
posted by chris24 at 9:10 AM on August 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
Thank you @realDonaldTrump for calling to Love thy neighbor, value equality, & calling evil by name.
Marc Benioff of Salesforce with a seemingly high praise response to Trump's limp late and ludicrous call out to "criticize" the fascists.
posted by njohnson23 at 9:10 AM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Marc Benioff of Salesforce with a seemingly high praise response to Trump's limp late and ludicrous call out to "criticize" the fascists.
posted by njohnson23 at 9:10 AM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
I always knew enterprise software was against us.
posted by Artw at 9:14 AM on August 15, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:14 AM on August 15, 2017 [30 favorites]
Marc Benioff of Salesforce with a seemingly high praise response to Trump's limp late and ludicrous call out to "criticize" the fascists
As if I needed another reason to hate that company, after watching what they're doing to the San Francisco skyline...
posted by suelac at 9:14 AM on August 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
As if I needed another reason to hate that company, after watching what they're doing to the San Francisco skyline...
posted by suelac at 9:14 AM on August 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
LOL
Pence "not aware" of any Russian collusion with Trump campaign (Emily Tillet, CBS News)
Texas size big government regulates insurance to circumvent the constitution and impose zealots' views on everyone?
Pence "not aware" of any Russian collusion with Trump campaign (Emily Tillet, CBS News)
Vice President Mike Pence says he "never witnessed" any evidence of collusion between the Russian government and Trump campaign officials during the 2016 campaign, and reaffirmed his commitment to cooperating with the special counsel's investigation into Russian election interference and possible Russian ties to the Trump organization.Deadly rally accelerates removal of Confederate statues (Jesse J. Holland, AP)
During his visit to a Christian mission in Cartagena, Colombia on Monday, Pence told reporters "during all of my experience on the campaign, I never witnessed any evidence of collusion or any of the allegations, I'm not aware of that ever having occurred."
In Gainesville, Florida, workers hired by the Daughters of the Confederacy chipped away at a Confederate soldier’s statue, loaded it quietly on a truck and drove away with little fanfare.Richard W. Painter @RWPUSA
In Baltimore, Mayor Catherine Pugh said she’s ready to tear down all of her city’s Confederate statues, and the city council voted to have them destroyed. San Antonio lawmakers are looking ahead to removing a statue that many people wrongly assumed represented a famed Texas leader who died at the Alamo.
Texas size big government regulates insurance to circumvent the constitution and impose zealots' views on everyone?
Texas Measure Would Restrict Insurance Coverage For Abortionsposted by Room 641-A at 9:18 AM on August 15, 2017 [17 favorites]
npr.org
Business Insider has a list of who has left and who has said they will stay on the council. The AFL-CIO has a rep on the council, and a suspect it's a tough decision for them. I'm sure they'd love to bail, but they'd lose any input into policy decisions made there.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 9:22 AM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 9:22 AM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
12) So the question for activists is: how long can you go? How much can you escalate pressure? If company thinks you won't stop, it'll fold.
Whether or not that happens truly depends on the company. Some companies will pay attention. Some won't. There will also be CEOs who feel that taking a stand is more important than pressure from their customers. We've seen this a bit recently from overtly Christian company owners and CEOs like Dan Cathy of Chick-fil-A.
posted by zarq at 9:23 AM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Whether or not that happens truly depends on the company. Some companies will pay attention. Some won't. There will also be CEOs who feel that taking a stand is more important than pressure from their customers. We've seen this a bit recently from overtly Christian company owners and CEOs like Dan Cathy of Chick-fil-A.
posted by zarq at 9:23 AM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Thank you @realDonaldTrump for calling to Love thy neighbor, value equality, & calling evil by name.
Marc Benioff of Salesforce with a seemingly high praise response to Trump's limp late and ludicrous call out to "criticize" the fascists.
Welp that just made a decision easier. I will not be recommending salesforce to a client. It was on a shortlist. I know their general political and social stances so this wont be an issue.
Will also make sure to send a message to Salesforce and let them know they lost some business.
posted by Jalliah at 9:23 AM on August 15, 2017 [49 favorites]
Sorry. I realized after I clicked post that it sounds like I'm pouring cold water on the idea that activism can be effective. More often than not, putting pressure on a company or a show's advertisers does work. It's a good tactic.
But it's not a slam dunk that even a tremendous amount of pressure will shift a company's course.
posted by zarq at 9:25 AM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
But it's not a slam dunk that even a tremendous amount of pressure will shift a company's course.
posted by zarq at 9:25 AM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Thank you @realDonaldTrump for calling to Love thy neighbor, value equality, & calling evil by name.
< /sarcasm>
R-right?
posted by xigxag at 9:31 AM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Lie down with dogs, wake up with rabies.
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:40 AM on August 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:40 AM on August 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
And every one of the policies that comes out of that group will favor rich, white men a d a few rich, white women.
There is no tempering Trump.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:44 AM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
There is no tempering Trump.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:44 AM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
Personally, I don't think any CEOs should have to leave a council that is not actively engaged in furthering white supremacy.
Good news! These councils are actively engaged in furthering white supremacy by supporting a white supremacist administration and the white supremacist policies the administration proposes. Therefore, leaving said councils is critical.
posted by Existential Dread at 9:45 AM on August 15, 2017 [70 favorites]
Good news! These councils are actively engaged in furthering white supremacy by supporting a white supremacist administration and the white supremacist policies the administration proposes. Therefore, leaving said councils is critical.
posted by Existential Dread at 9:45 AM on August 15, 2017 [70 favorites]
Personally, I don't think any CEOs should have to leave a council that is not actively engaged in furthering white supremacy. There are certainly still issues between industry and government that need attention. They could stay on, and condemn racism, and hopefully condemn Trump, and I'd be fine with that.
You can't influence Trump, you only validate him.
Rejection is the best option.
posted by chris24 at 9:46 AM on August 15, 2017 [59 favorites]
You can't influence Trump, you only validate him.
Rejection is the best option.
posted by chris24 at 9:46 AM on August 15, 2017 [59 favorites]
They could stay on, and condemn racism, and hopefully condemn Trump, and I'd be fine with that.Those who've resigned have specifically stated that it's impossible to complete important work in an environment of chaos and inequality. They're basically saying that there's no point in putting up a building while the one next door is burning down.
posted by xyzzy at 9:50 AM on August 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
They could stay on, and condemn racism, and hopefully condemn Trump, and I'd be fine with that.
Like how they can also pray for people, keep them in their thoughts, and spread positivity?
Has *anyone* been successful at influencing Trump to show a modicum of sanity or dignity? How could anyone in this council expect to have that type of influence on him when anyone who has tried to in the past has been publicly vilified by Trump himself?
posted by like_neon at 9:54 AM on August 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
Like how they can also pray for people, keep them in their thoughts, and spread positivity?
Has *anyone* been successful at influencing Trump to show a modicum of sanity or dignity? How could anyone in this council expect to have that type of influence on him when anyone who has tried to in the past has been publicly vilified by Trump himself?
posted by like_neon at 9:54 AM on August 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
Another Nazi Got Fired (Drew Salisbury, Death and Taxes)
A Ridgeville, South Carolina, white supremacist who was photographed standing next to accused murderer James Alex Fields Jr. at Saturday’s neo-Nazi rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, has been fired from his job. As of Monday afternoon, Nigel Krofta was no longer employed at Limehouse and Sons Construction, where he worked as a welder, after the company received a barrage of criticism from local residents.Bay Area sheriff’s department retweeted a Richard Spencer video, calls it ‘accidental’ (Tim Donnally, Death and Taxes)
It is starting to become apparent that Twitter dot com may be a terrible thing. We’re forced to watch the president of the United States fumble around on it every day in between picking petty personal battles. And we’re also forced to determine whether a sheriff’s office in California retweeting of a white supremacist video was “accidental” or some coded message, because both seem totally feasible these days!posted by Room 641-A at 10:01 AM on August 15, 2017 [24 favorites]
> There are certainly still issues between industry and government that need attention.
Between industry and *this* government, though? Trump's greatest contribution to American manufacturing since becoming President was "saving" a few jobs at a Carrier plant for a few months until the next round of layoffs. He's engaging in open warfare with his own party's leaders in Congress, and has no viable path to getting anything done unless it satisfies the most right-wing members of his party. How is this council worth preserving when it's already been shown that CEOs leaving it is having an impact?
posted by tonycpsu at 10:03 AM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
Between industry and *this* government, though? Trump's greatest contribution to American manufacturing since becoming President was "saving" a few jobs at a Carrier plant for a few months until the next round of layoffs. He's engaging in open warfare with his own party's leaders in Congress, and has no viable path to getting anything done unless it satisfies the most right-wing members of his party. How is this council worth preserving when it's already been shown that CEOs leaving it is having an impact?
posted by tonycpsu at 10:03 AM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
In re Charlottesville: Why weren't there police cars blocking the streets?
posted by ZenMasterThis at 10:10 AM on August 15, 2017
posted by ZenMasterThis at 10:10 AM on August 15, 2017
Hello, old friend. The CSPAN Trump Tower lobbycam is back up.
I started watching this, and thought "why am I watching this," and then on cue they rolled out a podium.
posted by theodolite at 10:14 AM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
I started watching this, and thought "why am I watching this," and then on cue they rolled out a podium.
posted by theodolite at 10:14 AM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
It is starting to become apparent that Twitter dot com may be a terrible thing.
Opus has the right idea.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:18 AM on August 15, 2017 [15 favorites]
Opus has the right idea.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:18 AM on August 15, 2017 [15 favorites]
James Hohmann with Breanne Deppisch and Joanie Greve/Washington Post's Daily 202 column:
Trump acts like the president of the Red States of America
Trump acts like the president of the Red States of America
THE BIG IDEA: Donald Trump often behaves, first and foremost, as if he is the president of the states and people who voted for him.posted by ZeusHumms at 10:23 AM on August 15, 2017 [60 favorites]
That’s at odds with the American tradition, and it’s problematic as a governing philosophy — especially in a moment of crisis. Trump’s initially tone-deaf response to Charlottesville underscores why.
Animated by grievance and congenitally disinclined to extend olive branches, Trump lashes out at his “enemies” — his 2020 reelection campaign even used that word in a commercial released on Sunday — while remaining reticent to explicitly call out his fans — no matter how odious, extreme or violent.
...
“One of the difficult but primary duties of the modern presidency is to speak for the nation in times of tragedy,” Michael Gerson, a speechwriter for George W. Bush, wrote in a column this weekend. “It falls to the president to express something of the nation’s soul — grief for the lost, sympathy for the suffering, moral clarity in the midst of confusion, confidence in the unknowable purposes of God. Not every president does this equally well. But none have been incapable. Until Donald Trump.
“The president is confident that his lazy musings are equal to history. They are not,” Gerson continues. “Trump could offer no context for this latest conflict. No inspiring ideals from the author of the Declaration of Independence, who called Charlottesville home. No healing words from the president who was killed by a white supremacist. By his flat, foolish utterance, Trump proved once again that he has no place in the company of these leaders.”
Trump acts like the president of the Red States of America
He is. Trump and the entire Republican party have made it explicitly clear that they have no intention or desire to even hear Democratic voters or elected politician speak. much less work with them on policy. They did not allow a single Democratic congressman to read the Trumpcare bills. They allowed no amendments. They have said they will follow the same plan with tax "reform". Their entire agenda is solely dedicated to undoing everything that Obama approved of, or even looks or sounds vaguely liberal. The changed the very rules of the Senate to steal a Supreme Court seat from a democratic President with no Democratic votes. Their propaganda arms in hate radio and FOX News daily declare Democrats and Liberals enemies of America. Trump has not set foot in a blue state since his election, outside of properties he owns.
Republicans are already waging a cold civil war against Blue states.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:29 AM on August 15, 2017 [110 favorites]
He is. Trump and the entire Republican party have made it explicitly clear that they have no intention or desire to even hear Democratic voters or elected politician speak. much less work with them on policy. They did not allow a single Democratic congressman to read the Trumpcare bills. They allowed no amendments. They have said they will follow the same plan with tax "reform". Their entire agenda is solely dedicated to undoing everything that Obama approved of, or even looks or sounds vaguely liberal. The changed the very rules of the Senate to steal a Supreme Court seat from a democratic President with no Democratic votes. Their propaganda arms in hate radio and FOX News daily declare Democrats and Liberals enemies of America. Trump has not set foot in a blue state since his election, outside of properties he owns.
Republicans are already waging a cold civil war against Blue states.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:29 AM on August 15, 2017 [110 favorites]
Lie down with dogs, wake up with rabies.
Rabies like skunks have?
posted by rough ashlar at 10:30 AM on August 15, 2017
Rabies like skunks have?
posted by rough ashlar at 10:30 AM on August 15, 2017
Pretty easy to not accidentally retweet nazis if you don't follow any nazis.
posted by Artw at 10:31 AM on August 15, 2017 [62 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:31 AM on August 15, 2017 [62 favorites]
I have tiny hands
Mr. President?
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:40 AM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
Mr. President?
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:40 AM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
Let's not make lazy bullshit lying denials out to be more than it is by calling it gaslighting.
posted by phearlez at 10:43 AM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by phearlez at 10:43 AM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
but they'd lose any input into policy decisions made there.
You think any policy decisions are made there? Plausible, maybe. That room represents a lot of money. On the other hand, Trump.
posted by ctmf at 10:52 AM on August 15, 2017
You think any policy decisions are made there? Plausible, maybe. That room represents a lot of money. On the other hand, Trump.
posted by ctmf at 10:52 AM on August 15, 2017
A little background on statues of Confederate generals. Most famous Confederate generals were active-duty officers in the United States Army that violated their oath of office to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic." You know, traitors.
Robert E. Lee, Jeb Stuart, James Longstreet, George Pickett, Albert Sidney Johnston, A.P. Hill, Richard Ewell, Joseph Johnston, Kirby Smith, John Bell Hood, Barnard Bee, Lewis Armistead, and Porter Alexander were all active-duty officers in the US Army who resigned their commissions to fight against the United States. About 300 other active-duty army or navy officers also resigned and joined the Confederacy.
Stonewall Jackson, Braxton Bragg, P.G.T. Beauregard, and Jubal Early were all US Army veterans.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:52 AM on August 15, 2017 [23 favorites]
Robert E. Lee, Jeb Stuart, James Longstreet, George Pickett, Albert Sidney Johnston, A.P. Hill, Richard Ewell, Joseph Johnston, Kirby Smith, John Bell Hood, Barnard Bee, Lewis Armistead, and Porter Alexander were all active-duty officers in the US Army who resigned their commissions to fight against the United States. About 300 other active-duty army or navy officers also resigned and joined the Confederacy.
Stonewall Jackson, Braxton Bragg, P.G.T. Beauregard, and Jubal Early were all US Army veterans.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:52 AM on August 15, 2017 [23 favorites]
And here I thought Jubal Early was an operative for the Alliance.
posted by Autumnheart at 10:59 AM on August 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Autumnheart at 10:59 AM on August 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
Yes, and a raging, unrepentant Confederate asshole.
Also, a fairly sweet horse my dad named.
posted by teleri025 at 11:04 AM on August 15, 2017
Also, a fairly sweet horse my dad named.
posted by teleri025 at 11:04 AM on August 15, 2017
That's what gets me. You have to search for Nazis to follow to accidentally retweet them. I have tiny hands and thick thumbs and I've managed to a) not retweet a Nazi b) never see Nazi stuff since *I DON'T FOLLOW THEM*. This feels like gaslighting.
Trump gets a daily propaganda document of people praising him & agreeing with him on the subjects of the day. That's going to strongly correlate with Nazis & racists through self-selection. What's important is their agreement & praise to bolster Trump. What's not important is anything that would disqualify them from inclusion in the daily propaganda document because then there would be less praise.
posted by scalefree at 11:13 AM on August 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
Trump gets a daily propaganda document of people praising him & agreeing with him on the subjects of the day. That's going to strongly correlate with Nazis & racists through self-selection. What's important is their agreement & praise to bolster Trump. What's not important is anything that would disqualify them from inclusion in the daily propaganda document because then there would be less praise.
posted by scalefree at 11:13 AM on August 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
This is interesting: a twitter feed curated by CNN politics that follows only the accounts followed by trump.
In other words, now you can see exactly what he's seeing anytime he browses his twitter feed. (Hint: it's mostly FoxNews propaganda. )
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:20 AM on August 15, 2017 [42 favorites]
In other words, now you can see exactly what he's seeing anytime he browses his twitter feed. (Hint: it's mostly FoxNews propaganda. )
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:20 AM on August 15, 2017 [42 favorites]
They did not allow a single Democratic congressman to read the Trumpcare bills. They allowed no amendments. They have said they will follow the same plan with tax "reform".
Getting ready to pivot back to the Trump tax cuts. The last proposal I heard would double the standard deduction, but eliminate the deductability of state and local taxes. People in mostly blue states / coastal states tend to have the highest property taxes and there's a similar correlation for higher state income taxes. Democrats and their neighbors will get gouged, if that's the proposal that passes. (OK, dems who own houses and itemize.)
posted by puddledork at 11:21 AM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
Getting ready to pivot back to the Trump tax cuts. The last proposal I heard would double the standard deduction, but eliminate the deductability of state and local taxes. People in mostly blue states / coastal states tend to have the highest property taxes and there's a similar correlation for higher state income taxes. Democrats and their neighbors will get gouged, if that's the proposal that passes. (OK, dems who own houses and itemize.)
posted by puddledork at 11:21 AM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
National Review Calls for Removal of Confederate Monuments
“The monuments should go. Some of them simply should be trashed; others transmitted to museums, battlefields and cemeteries. The heroism and losses of Confederate soldiers should be commemorated, but not in everyday public spaces where the monuments are flashpoints in poisonous racial contention, with white nationalists often mustering in their defense,” editor Rich Lowry wrote in a piece published Tuesday.posted by kirkaracha at 11:22 AM on August 15, 2017 [18 favorites]
...
“For supporters of the Confederate monuments, removing them from parks and avenues will be a blow against their heritage and historical memory. But the statues have often been part of an effort to whitewash the Confederacy,” Lowry said. “And it’s one thing for a statue to be merely a resting place for pigeons; it’s another for it to be a fighting cause for neo-Nazis.”
DOJ demands identifying information of visitors to anti-Trump website
posted by nubs at 5:57 AM on August 15 [11 favorites +] [!]
I was wondering when they were going to make the fascism official...
posted by Mental Wimp at 11:25 AM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by nubs at 5:57 AM on August 15 [11 favorites +] [!]
I was wondering when they were going to make the fascism official...
posted by Mental Wimp at 11:25 AM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
There's an explanation of the Alameda County Sheriff's office retweet fiasco up at LA Times. The willingness of Sgt. Kelly who did the retweeting to be named and explain what happened is, I suppose, laudable. He seems to have fucked up even more in the process of undoing the retweet, which I find sort of hilarious:
Kelly said he tried to un-retweet Spencer but instead only muted it so it didn’t show up on his screen, but remained there for everyone else to see. He had to call the department’s IT team to take down the retweet, he said.posted by yasaman at 11:27 AM on August 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
People in mostly blue states / coastal states tend to have the highest property taxes and there's a similar correlation for higher state income taxes. Democrats and their neighbors will get gouged, if that's the proposal that passes. (OK, dems who own houses and itemize.)
1) Landlords pass the cost of their property taxes on to renters. So renters contribute to property taxes too.
2) I suspect that an intended effect of this is to cause people to create political pressure to lower state and local taxes (since they would no longer be deductions.) If that happens, of course, schools are going to suffer badly. That's what most of that property tax money is going to pay for.
I called my blue state Republican Rep and told him the people who elected him are NOT going to appreciate the tax increase if he votes for this.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:27 AM on August 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
1) Landlords pass the cost of their property taxes on to renters. So renters contribute to property taxes too.
2) I suspect that an intended effect of this is to cause people to create political pressure to lower state and local taxes (since they would no longer be deductions.) If that happens, of course, schools are going to suffer badly. That's what most of that property tax money is going to pay for.
I called my blue state Republican Rep and told him the people who elected him are NOT going to appreciate the tax increase if he votes for this.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:27 AM on August 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
That's inaccurate -- it's actually twice a day.
Thanks for the callout, I was unsure on that point. What's needed now is a FOIA suit to get ahold of these twice-daily influences on Trump.
posted by scalefree at 11:33 AM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Thanks for the callout, I was unsure on that point. What's needed now is a FOIA suit to get ahold of these twice-daily influences on Trump.
posted by scalefree at 11:33 AM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
What's needed now is a FOIA suit to get ahold of these twice-daily influences on Trump.
The 1st step down that road is asking for them. Has that been done?
posted by rough ashlar at 11:36 AM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
The 1st step down that road is asking for them. Has that been done?
posted by rough ashlar at 11:36 AM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hey National Review - you say: The heroism and losses of Confederate soldiers should be commemorated,
Could you please point me to some places where we have commemorative statues of the folks who have shown heroism & lost against the US in other wars? Do we have some statues of brit soldiers from the revolutionary war? I'll even spot you the rebuilt white house as a memorial to the one that was burned down. Since you think non-public spaces are where they should go it's okay if they're not in the middle of a park or something, so long as they're not in embassies which are legally foreign soil.
I will not accept battlefields unless their signs and verbiage list and discuss the foreign forces and their losses before extolling the american victory.
posted by phearlez at 11:36 AM on August 15, 2017 [22 favorites]
Could you please point me to some places where we have commemorative statues of the folks who have shown heroism & lost against the US in other wars? Do we have some statues of brit soldiers from the revolutionary war? I'll even spot you the rebuilt white house as a memorial to the one that was burned down. Since you think non-public spaces are where they should go it's okay if they're not in the middle of a park or something, so long as they're not in embassies which are legally foreign soil.
I will not accept battlefields unless their signs and verbiage list and discuss the foreign forces and their losses before extolling the american victory.
posted by phearlez at 11:36 AM on August 15, 2017 [22 favorites]
CBO has scored the impact of eliminating the CSR payments for Obamacare: The Effects of Terminating Payments for Cost-Sharing Reductions. They say it will cost the government $194B over 10 years, saving $8B next year but costing $15B in higher premium tax credits. They don't think it will implode the markets, but will lead to weird imbalances, handing a windfall to those who have higher incomes. They actually seem pretty optimistic as to what it would do in the long-term (as I see it, it would amount to the government paying more for more coverage), but see significant problems in the short term as insurers pull out and others massively raise premiums to make up the difference.
There's also no sign that Trump cares about any of these practical implications at all, or remotely understands them, and will simply act out of spite.
posted by zachlipton at 11:42 AM on August 15, 2017 [31 favorites]
There's also no sign that Trump cares about any of these practical implications at all, or remotely understands them, and will simply act out of spite.
posted by zachlipton at 11:42 AM on August 15, 2017 [31 favorites]
What's needed now is a FOIA suit to get ahold of these twice-daily influences on Trump.
I'd bet you a coffee you'll get an exemption (b)(2) claim for "internal documents" if you try to get things like that, maybe a (b)(5) internal/deliberative communications.
BUT if want to try for the glory of it I highly recommend using Muckrock. Doing so would make it available to a lot more people. Even denied requests can be interesting and illustrative to others, like this March request for deleted tweets.
posted by phearlez at 11:43 AM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'd bet you a coffee you'll get an exemption (b)(2) claim for "internal documents" if you try to get things like that, maybe a (b)(5) internal/deliberative communications.
BUT if want to try for the glory of it I highly recommend using Muckrock. Doing so would make it available to a lot more people. Even denied requests can be interesting and illustrative to others, like this March request for deleted tweets.
posted by phearlez at 11:43 AM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
Terminology proposal: instead of calling the opposing sides in the Civil War the Union and the Confederates, say it was the Confederates vs. the Americans.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:44 AM on August 15, 2017 [38 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 11:44 AM on August 15, 2017 [38 favorites]
The White House is exempt from FOIA. And the report I've seen indicated that Trump's twice-daily pleasure files come from the RNC, which isn't part of the government and not subject to FOIA either. Unless some other agency is involved, my gut is that you're out of luck.
posted by zachlipton at 11:46 AM on August 15, 2017
posted by zachlipton at 11:46 AM on August 15, 2017
Maybe Trump could hire a bunch of prostitutes to pee on a copy of the Obamacare bill and that would be enough to end his obsession.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:47 AM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:47 AM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
I'm not sure why a Tennessee Congresswoman is so interested in opening up most of the public domain to oil and gas leasing without any environmental review, but apparently she is. She's probably in the pocket of ALEC or whatever.
The funny thing is that leasing has dropped in recent years because the market has dropped, not because of environmental review. But there's no acknowledgement of that in this proposed legislation.
posted by suelac at 11:56 AM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
The funny thing is that leasing has dropped in recent years because the market has dropped, not because of environmental review. But there's no acknowledgement of that in this proposed legislation.
posted by suelac at 11:56 AM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
@GovernorPataki:
Kid Rock is exactly the kind of candidate the GOP needs right now. #KidRockForSenate @KidRock
http://loudwire.com/kid-rock-senate-run-nod-of-support-republican-super-pac/
posted by chris24 at 9:10 AM on August 15 [10 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]
No, we need President Comacho!
posted by Mental Wimp at 12:07 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
Kid Rock is exactly the kind of candidate the GOP needs right now. #KidRockForSenate @KidRock
http://loudwire.com/kid-rock-senate-run-nod-of-support-republican-super-pac/
posted by chris24 at 9:10 AM on August 15 [10 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]
No, we need President Comacho!
posted by Mental Wimp at 12:07 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
CNN: Obamacare premiums to soar 20% if Trump ends key Obamacare subsidies, CBO says
Trump said he wanted affordable healthcare for all. Will he choose to increases costs by 20% out of spite? Maybe!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:08 PM on August 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
Trump said he wanted affordable healthcare for all. Will he choose to increases costs by 20% out of spite? Maybe!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:08 PM on August 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
The Hill: President Trump is set to repeal an Obama-era order requiring tougher new building standards for government-funded infrastructure projects in flood-prone areas, including those at risk of rising sea levels brought on by climate change.
Someone should point out to Trump that Obama was strongly opposed to resigning office
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:12 PM on August 15, 2017 [30 favorites]
Someone should point out to Trump that Obama was strongly opposed to resigning office
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:12 PM on August 15, 2017 [30 favorites]
Someone should point out to Trump that Obama was strongly opposed to resigning office
I suspect Trump looked at that and decided that as a developer it was more important to build cheap now and get out before the homeowners all got flooded out. He's really ridiculously venal.
posted by suelac at 12:18 PM on August 15, 2017
I suspect Trump looked at that and decided that as a developer it was more important to build cheap now and get out before the homeowners all got flooded out. He's really ridiculously venal.
posted by suelac at 12:18 PM on August 15, 2017
Room 641-A: Pence "not aware" of any Russian collusion with Trump campaign (Emily Tillet, CBS News)
Vice President Mike Pence says he "never witnessed" any evidence of collusion between the Russian government and Trump campaign officials during the 2016 campaign, and reaffirmed his commitment to cooperating with the special counsel's investigation into Russian election interference and possible Russian ties to the Trump organization.
Emphasis mine: that feels like a strategic phrase in case someone finds emails with Pence looped in. And for reference for timelines of events, Trump first tweeted (because, of course) that Pence was his running mate on July 15, 2016 (CNN article, with a pleasantly grumpy looking Pence as the still image in an embedded video segment).
"I, uh, never saw Russian officials colluding with, uh, the Trump campaign," Pence will likely say. "We might have met with some Russians to talk about trade deals or adoption, but I never witnessed any evidence of collusion."
(Also, check the shredders in Pence's office.)
posted by filthy light thief at 12:20 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
Vice President Mike Pence says he "never witnessed" any evidence of collusion between the Russian government and Trump campaign officials during the 2016 campaign, and reaffirmed his commitment to cooperating with the special counsel's investigation into Russian election interference and possible Russian ties to the Trump organization.
Emphasis mine: that feels like a strategic phrase in case someone finds emails with Pence looped in. And for reference for timelines of events, Trump first tweeted (because, of course) that Pence was his running mate on July 15, 2016 (CNN article, with a pleasantly grumpy looking Pence as the still image in an embedded video segment).
"I, uh, never saw Russian officials colluding with, uh, the Trump campaign," Pence will likely say. "We might have met with some Russians to talk about trade deals or adoption, but I never witnessed any evidence of collusion."
(Also, check the shredders in Pence's office.)
posted by filthy light thief at 12:20 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
You have to search for Nazis to follow to accidentally retweet them
Funny thing. I recently searched the hashtag #nazi on twitter (I wasn't looking for nazis to follow and retweet) and it throws up news and then people relevant to that search term before showing tweets that include the tag. For people I got offered the @realDonalTrump account. Their search seems to work quite well.
posted by Elmore at 12:27 PM on August 15, 2017 [19 favorites]
Funny thing. I recently searched the hashtag #nazi on twitter (I wasn't looking for nazis to follow and retweet) and it throws up news and then people relevant to that search term before showing tweets that include the tag. For people I got offered the @realDonalTrump account. Their search seems to work quite well.
posted by Elmore at 12:27 PM on August 15, 2017 [19 favorites]
I'd not mind getting the Nazis (Holocaust denial, blog posts calling Julius Streicher a martyr, etc) out of my historical Google searches.
posted by thelonius at 12:36 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 12:36 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Here are the business leaders who are — and aren’t — officially advising Trump (Tony Romm for Recode, Aug. 15, 2017)
posted by filthy light thief at 12:44 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
For its part, the White House does not maintain an updated, public list of its corporate advisers. But here’s who still assists Trump — and who has left his advisory groups.Of course, why would it? Anyway, 8 are out, and at least 37 others still in. Plenty of companies to boycott and publicly shame.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:44 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
The Hill: President Trump is set to repeal an Obama-era order requiring tougher new building standards for government-funded infrastructure projects in flood-prone areas, including those at risk of rising sea levels brought on by climate change.
It's a shame the Hill article buries at the bottom the comments about how short term this thinking is. Over the course of my growing up in Miami we saw a continuing relaxation on both building standards & inspections and relaxing of building out to the west of the county such that it encroached into the Everglades.
The inevitable result was seen both in the devastation after hurricane Andrew and in issue with flooding in those ill-conceived builds out near and past Krome ave. Whatever positive benefits came to people and the economy from letting those houses go up was far outstripped by the extended impact of the disaster when it finally arrived. As it inevitably was going to.
posted by phearlez at 12:55 PM on August 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
It's a shame the Hill article buries at the bottom the comments about how short term this thinking is. Over the course of my growing up in Miami we saw a continuing relaxation on both building standards & inspections and relaxing of building out to the west of the county such that it encroached into the Everglades.
The inevitable result was seen both in the devastation after hurricane Andrew and in issue with flooding in those ill-conceived builds out near and past Krome ave. Whatever positive benefits came to people and the economy from letting those houses go up was far outstripped by the extended impact of the disaster when it finally arrived. As it inevitably was going to.
posted by phearlez at 12:55 PM on August 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
Turns out wetlands are gonna wetland, who knew
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:57 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:57 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Pence's statement that "I made it very clear I am not aware of any contacts during the time that I was on the campaign between any officials of the Russian government and officials with the campaign" could also reasonably be parsed as:There were contacts between officials of the Russian government and officials with the campaign They happened before Pence joined the campaign (July 15) Pence was aware of them But there were no further contacts after Pence joined.
In which case (assuming some nefarious coordination) the question is whether any additional contact would even have been necessary once a plan was in motion, and whether Pence's knowledge of, and benefiting from, any collusion is enough to get him wrapped up in it.
posted by stopgap at 12:59 PM on August 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
In which case (assuming some nefarious coordination) the question is whether any additional contact would even have been necessary once a plan was in motion, and whether Pence's knowledge of, and benefiting from, any collusion is enough to get him wrapped up in it.
posted by stopgap at 12:59 PM on August 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
I got up at 5:30 this morning to participate in our democracy and attended a live, in-person town-hall with Senator Cory Gardner (R-CO). He's held tons of telephone town-halls but hadn't publicly met face to face w constituents in over a year, before a meeting last week in Durango which was also attended by Gov Hickenlooper and Senator Bennet (D). This was one of 3 he's got planned for today and started at 7:30. Gardner made statements over the weekend telling the president to call evil by its name and denouncing the events in Charlottesville as domestic terrorism by white supremacists. He seems legitimately upset about it, but had nothing other than platitudes about how racism is bad and hard to explain to his kids and offered nothing substantive about what he's doing about it beyond statements. Gardner was asked by a man whose grandfather died in the Holocaust if he (Gardner) believes Trump is fit to serve. Gardner said he does. The crowd was most riled up about health care and he fielded several questions about it. At one point, the moderator, State Senator Bob Gardner (no relation), who represents part of Colorado Springs, tried to insert a prepared question about transportation but Cory decided to let the person whose name had been selected from the box ask their question, which turned out to be another question on health care. His answers were terrible; he doesn't support a single payer system, he doesn't agree with the idea of socialized medicine at all and referenced the Charlie Gard case. I wish I could be more insightful or eloquent about the meeting, but it felt awful and draining to be in a room full of angry people, who are angry for good reasons, and who were shouting over each other (I swear I'm not that "can't we all just listen and be nice and speak politely" person; I must need better defenses, I'm tired and my head still hurts.) and to watch the Senator smile and evade and spout platitudes and generally seem unconcerned about how unpresidential the president is.
More positively, the opposition to Cheyenne Mountain Resort hosting VDARE's national conference in 2018 is gaining traction and media attention.
posted by danielleh at 1:08 PM on August 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
More positively, the opposition to Cheyenne Mountain Resort hosting VDARE's national conference in 2018 is gaining traction and media attention.
posted by danielleh at 1:08 PM on August 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
Trump is now taking questions in the Trump Tower lobby despite staff saying he wouldn't. He's announced "When I make a statement, I like to be correct." That may be the least true thing he's ever said. He's saying the first statement was based just on "what we were seeing" (on TV I guess) and the second statement "was made with knowledge."
And, my god: @maggieNYT: Trump says the mother of the woman killed said "the nicest things about me"
This is worth watching. He's nuts.
posted by zachlipton at 1:10 PM on August 15, 2017 [60 favorites]
And, my god: @maggieNYT: Trump says the mother of the woman killed said "the nicest things about me"
This is worth watching. He's nuts.
posted by zachlipton at 1:10 PM on August 15, 2017 [60 favorites]
Listening to Ill Douche's remarks from Trump Tower -- supposed to be about infrastructure, but so far all questions have been about C'ville and CEOs etc. Certainly not helping him staying on agenda.
posted by AwkwardPause at 1:11 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by AwkwardPause at 1:11 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
What a FUCKING ASSHOLE
posted by yoga at 1:12 PM on August 15, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by yoga at 1:12 PM on August 15, 2017 [34 favorites]
Trump is now doing literal whataboutitsm with "what about the alt-left who came charging at them [the Nazis]?"
This is the lowest low.
posted by zachlipton at 1:13 PM on August 15, 2017 [41 favorites]
This is the lowest low.
posted by zachlipton at 1:13 PM on August 15, 2017 [41 favorites]
> And, my god: @maggieNYT: Trump says the mother of the woman killed said "the nicest things about me"
Sadly, Ron Howard has stopped taking calls from his agent, and is en route to a remote wilderness to live out the rest of his days in solitude.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:14 PM on August 15, 2017 [44 favorites]
Sadly, Ron Howard has stopped taking calls from his agent, and is en route to a remote wilderness to live out the rest of his days in solitude.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:14 PM on August 15, 2017 [44 favorites]
This is worth watching. He's nuts.
Fuck me the man is truly nuts.
posted by Talez at 1:15 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Fuck me the man is truly nuts.
posted by Talez at 1:15 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Trump: "First Robert E. Lee, then Stonewall Jackson. Who next? George Washington?!" [sadly, REAL]
posted by Freon at 1:16 PM on August 15, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by Freon at 1:16 PM on August 15, 2017 [21 favorites]
The mother of the woman actually started a Skype desktop share session just so she could join the President in marveling at his inauguration crowd size
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:17 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:17 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Defending literal nazis.
posted by Talez at 1:17 PM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Talez at 1:17 PM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
This is completely fucking insane.
posted by Gaz Errant at 1:17 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Gaz Errant at 1:17 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Donald Trump is a devout white supremacist because Donald Trump is a devout Donald Trump supremacist and Donald Trump is white.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:17 PM on August 15, 2017 [37 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:17 PM on August 15, 2017 [37 favorites]
He's so fucking unhinged right now.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:18 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 1:18 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
Trump just compared Jefferson and Washington morally to the Confederates. Literally. Not sort of. Not kinda. Straight up.
posted by Justinian at 1:18 PM on August 15, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 1:18 PM on August 15, 2017 [20 favorites]
He just what-abouted George Washington.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:18 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 1:18 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
even after everything that's happened i cannot believe what i am seeing and hearing
posted by prefpara at 1:18 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by prefpara at 1:18 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Mod note: folks, remember it's ok to take the livebloggy stuff over to chat. Long thread is long.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 1:18 PM on August 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 1:18 PM on August 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
That dude ain't right.
posted by AwkwardPause at 1:19 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by AwkwardPause at 1:19 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
i am following along via @ddale8 on twitter and i have such an utter lack of evens that a singularity has formed and is sucking me into its event horizon
posted by entropicamericana at 1:19 PM on August 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 1:19 PM on August 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
"Protesting quietly"
THEY WERE CHANTING "THE JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US!"
posted by Talez at 1:20 PM on August 15, 2017 [56 favorites]
THEY WERE CHANTING "THE JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US!"
posted by Talez at 1:20 PM on August 15, 2017 [56 favorites]
Whoa, that was bizarre.
posted by rc3spencer at 1:23 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by rc3spencer at 1:23 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Well, to be fair, if George Washington isn't a problematic fave I don't know who is.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 1:23 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 1:23 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
"Protesting quietly"
THEY WERE CHANTING "THE JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US!"
I think they said something similar about "LOCK HER UP," which always struck me and being really sick and creepy, and I was puzzled then that the media wasn't doing anything about it, and I'm puzzled now. More than puzzled, of course.
posted by Melismata at 1:23 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
THEY WERE CHANTING "THE JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US!"
I think they said something similar about "LOCK HER UP," which always struck me and being really sick and creepy, and I was puzzled then that the media wasn't doing anything about it, and I'm puzzled now. More than puzzled, of course.
posted by Melismata at 1:23 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Is anyone else shaking after watching that?
posted by run"monty at 1:23 PM on August 15, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by run"monty at 1:23 PM on August 15, 2017 [20 favorites]
This is worth watching. He's nuts.
I like how he rolled out of that elevator with about 100 other people like from a clown car.
posted by mazola at 1:24 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
I like how he rolled out of that elevator with about 100 other people like from a clown car.
posted by mazola at 1:24 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
Hard to keep the Charlottesville thread and this one separate right now. Mostly I'm wondering why I feel any surprise at what Trump is doing.
posted by emjaybee at 1:24 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 1:24 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
Is anyone else shaking after watching that?
Based on the comments of my MeFi associates, I spent the time drinking bourbon and doing a load of laundry.
posted by mikelieman at 1:25 PM on August 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
Based on the comments of my MeFi associates, I spent the time drinking bourbon and doing a load of laundry.
posted by mikelieman at 1:25 PM on August 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
I only tuned in at the end, where a reporter asked him if he planned to visit Charlottesville and he dodged the question by talking about how he owns a house in Charlottesville, a big, beautiful winery. Is there any question he won't twist around to stroking his own ego?
posted by marshmallow peep at 1:25 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by marshmallow peep at 1:25 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
They weren't all Nazis. Some were dyslexic and thought they were going to a Zany rally.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:25 PM on August 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:25 PM on August 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
That's what we have as our president. God help us all.
posted by rewil at 1:25 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by rewil at 1:25 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
John Kelly during the President's Q and A at Trump Tower
It just says everything.
posted by Talez at 1:25 PM on August 15, 2017 [21 favorites]
It just says everything.
posted by Talez at 1:25 PM on August 15, 2017 [21 favorites]
You know guys I'm starting to get the impression the president isn't a very good person.
posted by Justinian at 1:25 PM on August 15, 2017 [43 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 1:25 PM on August 15, 2017 [43 favorites]
Great. Now we get to suffer through god knows how many bullshit tweets from the ASSHOLE in CHIEF because Obama got 2.5 million favorites on his Nelson Mandela quote tweets on Saturday night.
posted by yoga at 1:26 PM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by yoga at 1:26 PM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
I think this is the pivot.
posted by dis_integration at 1:26 PM on August 15, 2017 [71 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 1:26 PM on August 15, 2017 [71 favorites]
this is what it's like to be ruled by a mad, evil king, isn't it.
Not only is Trump himself sickening, but I'm preemptively ill at the thought of how the fucking media will decide to spin this so it's normal and okay and not a source of profound shame and horror.
posted by yasaman at 1:28 PM on August 15, 2017 [48 favorites]
Not only is Trump himself sickening, but I'm preemptively ill at the thought of how the fucking media will decide to spin this so it's normal and okay and not a source of profound shame and horror.
posted by yasaman at 1:28 PM on August 15, 2017 [48 favorites]
25th Amendment.
TWENTY-FIFTH AMENDMENT.
posted by Guy Smiley at 1:29 PM on August 15, 2017 [37 favorites]
TWENTY-FIFTH AMENDMENT.
posted by Guy Smiley at 1:29 PM on August 15, 2017 [37 favorites]
Was the Washington/Jefferson thing on Brietbart or something? I just had someone earlier say something similar about how if the confederate statutes have to come down they should take down the Washington and Jefferson monuments too, since they owned slaves. Clearly. They don't think these things up independently, it all comes from the same hate sources and gets spread to talk radio, Facebook and now the President's mouth.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:29 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:29 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
Maggie Haberman
And now, on Earth 2, Cohn and Chao continue talking about infrastructure with charts.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:29 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
And now, on Earth 2, Cohn and Chao continue talking about infrastructure with charts.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:29 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
That was truly the moment he became Joffrey.
posted by rc3spencer at 1:30 PM on August 15, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by rc3spencer at 1:30 PM on August 15, 2017 [22 favorites]
This is the moment that Trump truly became Grand Wizard
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:30 PM on August 15, 2017 [56 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:30 PM on August 15, 2017 [56 favorites]
That was truly the moment he became Joffrey.
posted by rc3spencer at 1:30 PM on August 15 [1 favorite +] [!]
I thought he went straight to Areys II.
posted by ultranos at 1:33 PM on August 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by rc3spencer at 1:30 PM on August 15 [1 favorite +] [!]
I thought he went straight to Areys II.
posted by ultranos at 1:33 PM on August 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
Curious about how Trump comparing Washington and Jefferson to Confederates lines up to Pat Buchanan's defense of white supremacy today...
(He ends with: “All men are created equal” is an ideological statement. Where is the scientific or historic proof for it?)
Did Trump talk to Buchanan? Did someone read Trump Buchanan's piece?
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:33 PM on August 15, 2017 [18 favorites]
Many Southern towns, including Alexandria, Virginia, have statues of Confederate soldiers looking to the South. Shall we pull them all down? And once all the Southern Civil War monuments are gone, should we go after the statues of the slave owners whom we Americans have heroized?The gist of Pat's op-ed is: "We can't tear down statues of white supremacists. All my heroes are white supremacists! And seriously is America even America anymore if it is not majority white? Nationality is defined by race, surely?"
Gen. George Washington and his subordinate, “Light Horse Harry” Lee, father of Robert E. Lee, were slave owners, as was Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe and Andrew Jackson. Five of our first seven presidents owned slaves, as did James K. Polk, who invaded and annexed the northern half of Mexico, including California.
Jefferson, with his exploitation of Sally Hemings and neglect of their children, presents a particular problem. While he wrote in the Declaration of Independence of his belief that “all men are created equal,” his life and his depiction of Indians in that document belie this.
And Jefferson is both on the face of Mount Rushmore and has a memorial in the U.S. capital.
(He ends with: “All men are created equal” is an ideological statement. Where is the scientific or historic proof for it?)
Did Trump talk to Buchanan? Did someone read Trump Buchanan's piece?
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:33 PM on August 15, 2017 [18 favorites]
If you missed it, you can use this C-SPAN link to watch from the beginning. It starts with infrastructure and the permitting process, including some props (note that there were no members of Congress in this meeting, despite the fact that Congress would have to pass an infrastructure bill) and a rather condescending "Elaine, do you see that?" to Sec. Chao. The questions start at around 6:30; he's reasonably hinged before that.
Fun fact: Trump Winery not the largest winery, not even the largest on the east coast.
And this is just...Um...@markknoller: "I stand by my man - both of them," said @SecElaineChao, asked about Pres Trump's public criticism of her husband, @SenateMajLdr.
posted by zachlipton at 1:33 PM on August 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
Fun fact: Trump Winery not the largest winery, not even the largest on the east coast.
And this is just...Um...@markknoller: "I stand by my man - both of them," said @SecElaineChao, asked about Pres Trump's public criticism of her husband, @SenateMajLdr.
posted by zachlipton at 1:33 PM on August 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
Holy gaslighting batman, he re-read his Saturday statement on Charlottesville omitting the "on many sides" ad-lib in an extended riff about making sure what he says is correct.
posted by peeedro at 1:34 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by peeedro at 1:34 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Many Southern towns, including Alexandria, Virginia, have statues of Confederate soldiers looking to the South. Shall we pull them all down?
Yup. Then melt them down and recycle the metal.
posted by mikelieman at 1:34 PM on August 15, 2017 [16 favorites]
Yup. Then melt them down and recycle the metal.
posted by mikelieman at 1:34 PM on August 15, 2017 [16 favorites]
Trump asked about Steve Bannon: "He came on very late, you know that!"
This is a response to a book claiming that Bannon was instrumental in the election win. This alone is very upsetting to Donald.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:35 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
This is a response to a book claiming that Bannon was instrumental in the election win. This alone is very upsetting to Donald.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:35 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
Yup. Then melt them down and recycle the metal.
Hospital bedpans.
posted by Talez at 1:35 PM on August 15, 2017 [18 favorites]
Hospital bedpans.
posted by Talez at 1:35 PM on August 15, 2017 [18 favorites]
Then melt them down and recycle the metal
Use the metal to build low-income housing for elderly African-Americans.
posted by suelac at 1:36 PM on August 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
Use the metal to build low-income housing for elderly African-Americans.
posted by suelac at 1:36 PM on August 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
we need to erect a statue to pat buchanan so we can tear it down
posted by pyramid termite at 1:37 PM on August 15, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 1:37 PM on August 15, 2017 [18 favorites]
Interesting to me that he wasn't supposed to take questions (or at least, press was told he wouldn't take questions), but someone sent him out there with a piece of paper with text from his Saturday statement so he could quote it.
posted by zachlipton at 1:37 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 1:37 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
However, Trump Whinery is the biggest whinery.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:37 PM on August 15, 2017 [56 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:37 PM on August 15, 2017 [56 favorites]
he's defending the Friday night torch rally
it was a very quiet torch rally and they had permits
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:38 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
it was a very quiet torch rally and they had permits
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:38 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
While we're here let's have a slow clap for all the Vox personalities who coined "alt-left" to describe people in favor of single payer health care. "Alt-left" is the new "fake news", so that's great.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:39 PM on August 15, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:39 PM on August 15, 2017 [30 favorites]
Being forced to do something sure makes him mad. That was a whole bunch of 'fuck you all' pure rage. You wanna know what I think. This is what I really think. Fuck you.
Guy can't fake anything for political expediency. It's horrible but it would be worse if he was able to hide it like a lot of pols can.
posted by Jalliah at 1:39 PM on August 15, 2017 [26 favorites]
Hospital bedpans.
low-income housing for elderly African-Americans.
Use the metal to build bedpans for elderly African-Americans in free hospitals and low-income housing
posted by entropicamericana at 1:39 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
low-income housing for elderly African-Americans.
Use the metal to build bedpans for elderly African-Americans in free hospitals and low-income housing
posted by entropicamericana at 1:39 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
it was a very quiet torch rally and they had permits
Who hasn't screamed anti-Semitic statements during a quiet torch rally?
posted by Talez at 1:39 PM on August 15, 2017 [32 favorites]
Who hasn't screamed anti-Semitic statements during a quiet torch rally?
posted by Talez at 1:39 PM on August 15, 2017 [32 favorites]
Then melt them down and recycle the metal
Memorials commemorating the role of enslaved and indigenous people in creating this country.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 1:40 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
Memorials commemorating the role of enslaved and indigenous people in creating this country.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 1:40 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
When healthcare came up, he very pointedly blamed John McCain and told reporters to ask him. Twice.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:40 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 1:40 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yo, media: which part of "Trump has absolutely no idea what he's doing" don't you understand?
posted by Melismata at 1:41 PM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 1:41 PM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
> While we're here let's have a slow clap for all the Vox personalities who coined "alt-left" to describe people in favor of single payer health care. "Alt-left" is the new "fake news", so that's great.
Huh?
posted by tonycpsu at 1:41 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
Huh?
posted by tonycpsu at 1:41 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm not certain there are enough Confederate monuments in this country to melt into all the stuff you guys want to make, never mind the metallurgical challenges involved.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:42 PM on August 15, 2017
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:42 PM on August 15, 2017
"some people say trump has no idea what he's doing, others call him the orange sun god..." –npr [fake]
posted by entropicamericana at 1:42 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 1:42 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm not certain there are enough Confederate monuments in this country to melt into all the stuff you guys want to make, never mind the metallurgical challenges involved.
Like receiving a gift, it's the thought that counts.
posted by Talez at 1:42 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Like receiving a gift, it's the thought that counts.
posted by Talez at 1:42 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
I am fucking stunned. The president just made a speech OVERTLY stating all the talking points of racist white supremacists.
That whole spiel about how the "alt left" is equally or more to blame, how so many of those lovely young alt-right men just wanted to defend a statue. . . . I am fucking stunned. THIS IS FUCKING APPALLING.
The only specific criticisms he had were of the anti-racists. He has said nothing critical of the white supremacist nazis.
The dogwhistles are gone. They're done. He's openly defending nazis on TV. At length, over and over. and taking their side. He's making their case. You could put this shit side by side with any racist white power speech and find loads of parallels.
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:43 PM on August 15, 2017 [148 favorites]
That whole spiel about how the "alt left" is equally or more to blame, how so many of those lovely young alt-right men just wanted to defend a statue. . . . I am fucking stunned. THIS IS FUCKING APPALLING.
The only specific criticisms he had were of the anti-racists. He has said nothing critical of the white supremacist nazis.
The dogwhistles are gone. They're done. He's openly defending nazis on TV. At length, over and over. and taking their side. He's making their case. You could put this shit side by side with any racist white power speech and find loads of parallels.
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:43 PM on August 15, 2017 [148 favorites]
I'm not certain there are enough Confederate monuments in this country to melt into all the stuff you guys want to make, never mind the metallurgical challenges involved.
There's one way to find out!
posted by notyou at 1:43 PM on August 15, 2017 [22 favorites]
There's one way to find out!
posted by notyou at 1:43 PM on August 15, 2017 [22 favorites]
While we're here let's have a slow clap for all the Vox personalities who coined "alt-left" to describe people in favor of single payer health care.
Vox deserves blame for a lot of things, but the only uses of alt-left I see on the site are two quotes, and I don't see any uses of that term on Klein or Yglesias's twitters.
I don't deny some liberals have used it to hippiepunch, but I don't think very many have.
posted by zachlipton at 1:43 PM on August 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
Vox deserves blame for a lot of things, but the only uses of alt-left I see on the site are two quotes, and I don't see any uses of that term on Klein or Yglesias's twitters.
I don't deny some liberals have used it to hippiepunch, but I don't think very many have.
posted by zachlipton at 1:43 PM on August 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
David Roberts/Vox: Scott Pruitt is dismantling EPA in secret for the same reason the GOP health care bill was secret
The New York Times had a big story (noted above) on Friday about EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt’s propensity to operate in secret. It offers a detailed and damning review of the evidence, but it stops short of drawing the broader conclusion: namely, that the approach of serving industry under cover of secrecy is not idiosyncratic to Pruitt, nor is it distinctively Trumpian. Rather, it is the standard approach of today’s GOP, as reflected in such recent initiatives as the failed health care bill. It is, in fact, the only approach possible to advance an agenda that is unpopular and intellectually indefensible.posted by ZeusHumms at 1:43 PM on August 15, 2017 [53 favorites]
...
... Pruitt is keeping his agenda as hidden as possible for the very same reasons Republicans in Congress tried to keep their recent health care bill a secret: Virtually no one likes it and there’s not a coherent policy case to be made for it.
Interestingly, in the case of the health care bill, GOP radicalism went so far that not even the health care industries and constituencies that fought against Obamacare supported it. Given the chance to enact a longtime policy priority, the GOP went too far and fell on its face. We’re seeing some of that crop up around Pruitt as well.
...
Trump, Pruitt, and today’s GOP are the inevitable outcome of [the process of pulling the conservative base away from the mainstream], which has been unfolding right under our noses. It got bad under Gingrich, worse under the reign of George W. Bush, and utterly out of control under Obama. In health care policy, tax policy, and environmental policy, the intellectual foundation has rotted away. What remains is will to power, the raw impulse to degrade and destroy anything liberals support, and the belief that hesitation or circumspection amounts to treachery.
Of course Pruitt operates in secret, counseled by industry and ideologues, unwilling and unable to engage the broader public. He is a Republican in 2017.
honestly I thought I had lost the capacity to be shocked but here we are
Evergreen post. I think this DAILY.
posted by marshmallow peep at 1:44 PM on August 15, 2017 [22 favorites]
Evergreen post. I think this DAILY.
posted by marshmallow peep at 1:44 PM on August 15, 2017 [22 favorites]
While we're here let's have a slow clap for all the Vox personalities who coined "alt-left" to describe people in favor of single payer health care. "Alt-left" is the new "fake news", so that's great.
And another slow clap for the purists who are already preparing the gulags.
posted by Guy Smiley at 1:45 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
And another slow clap for the purists who are already preparing the gulags.
posted by Guy Smiley at 1:45 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Well, he just gave everyone else on his corporate council any excuse they could possibly need to leave now (as if they didn't have that the day he announced his candidacy).
Half of me thinks John Kelly spent the entire time saying "North Korea, North Korea" in his head. But more than half of me doesn't care. Everyone in this administration with any decency or dignity should resign until Trump has no choice but to resign himself.
Like I say, I can dream.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:45 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Half of me thinks John Kelly spent the entire time saying "North Korea, North Korea" in his head. But more than half of me doesn't care. Everyone in this administration with any decency or dignity should resign until Trump has no choice but to resign himself.
Like I say, I can dream.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:45 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
The president just made a speech OVERTLY stating all the talking points of racist white supremacists.
Trump is now truly the Dunce of the Confederacy.
posted by Kabanos at 1:45 PM on August 15, 2017 [26 favorites]
Trump is now truly the Dunce of the Confederacy.
posted by Kabanos at 1:45 PM on August 15, 2017 [26 favorites]
Many Southern towns, including Alexandria, Virginia, have statues of Confederate soldiers looking to the South. Shall we pull them all down?
Yup. Then melt them down and recycle the metal.
And use those funds to pay the medical bills of those injured fighting Nazis in the streets of Charlottesville.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:45 PM on August 15, 2017
Yup. Then melt them down and recycle the metal.
And use those funds to pay the medical bills of those injured fighting Nazis in the streets of Charlottesville.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:45 PM on August 15, 2017
The President specifically said he was holding back his statements until he was aware of the facts. Now he says that many of the right-wing protesters in Charlottesville were not white supremacists or white nationalists or neo-Nazis but were merely making the very sensible decision to protest the removal of a statue, which could lead to a slippery slope of statue-removal leading up to George Washington. Those, to the President, are the facts. That is the State of the Union.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:46 PM on August 15, 2017 [62 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:46 PM on August 15, 2017 [62 favorites]
Who forgot to put Il Dunce down for his nap today? Jeezus. This is scary. At the same time, I hope this is it - keep the pressure up over this and watch the man implode.
posted by nubs at 1:47 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by nubs at 1:47 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
No need to move the metal. Have local artists render some variation on "Free from the chains" wherever those things used to stand.
I think there was an FPP recently on the dearth of those kinds of monuments in the US and their prevalence elsewhere.
posted by Slackermagee at 1:48 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
I think there was an FPP recently on the dearth of those kinds of monuments in the US and their prevalence elsewhere.
posted by Slackermagee at 1:48 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
"a statue that is very important to them culturally"
posted by yesster at 1:48 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by yesster at 1:48 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
@PhilPlait:
1/4 I have been on Twitter since April 2007. In those 10+ years I have tweeted over 72,000 times.posted by non canadian guy at 1:49 PM on August 15, 2017 [132 favorites]
2/4 In all that time, I have never used strong “curse” words. Not for emphasis, not for a joke. Never.
3/4 So when I tweet this, know full well the import and impact of what I say:
4/4 Donald Trump, the sitting President of the United States, is a piece of shit.
Let's just remember that when he made his vague half-assed remarks on Saturday, racist nazi goons had orgasms of joy over how supportive he was.
This speech today? This is going to get many, many people hurt, killed, and intimidated. Remember the flood of hate crimes immediately after the election? He just made a speech overtly validating these violent dangerous fucks.
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:49 PM on August 15, 2017 [52 favorites]
This speech today? This is going to get many, many people hurt, killed, and intimidated. Remember the flood of hate crimes immediately after the election? He just made a speech overtly validating these violent dangerous fucks.
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:49 PM on August 15, 2017 [52 favorites]
Anyway, good job John Kelly.
posted by PenDevil at 1:49 PM on August 15, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 1:49 PM on August 15, 2017 [30 favorites]
My moment of "holy shit" this morning: Hate Groups' Core Changed Little Over The Years, Ex-FBI Agent Says (NPR, Aug. 15, 2017) -- David Greene talks to former special agent Michael German about how law enforcement and the federal government are countering the current white supremacist movement following the violence in Virginia.
Utilizing the 25th amendment won't be enough to turn this around, but, like removing Confederate statues, it's a damned good start.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:50 PM on August 15, 2017 [106 favorites]
GERMAN: I find it hard to believe that somebody who wasn't racist last year all of a sudden decided it's a good idea to become racist this year. So I think what it is is the change that we've seen is that there has been some state sanctioning of these ideas and of these political goals. And that's...Emphasis mine: STATE. SANCTIONED. VIOLENCE.
GREENE: State sanctioning?
GERMAN: Absolutely.
GREENE: I want to be really careful to understand what you mean by that.
GERMAN: Well, certainly during the Trump campaign, there - you know, what had been a normal sort of dog-whistle appeal to racists and white supremacists and other of these far-right ideologies that it was a normal part of far-right or - not even far-right, right-wing populism, and a lot of conservatives would do it, what Donald Trump did was throw away the dog whistle and pick up a bullhorn and make very clear to these groups that he was going to take anti-Muslim positions, that he was going to take anti-Latino positions, that what - he was going to characterize security issues as protecting his community from other American communities.
GREENE: So you see those messaging, whatever it is, as causing some of these - some of these people to feel like they can come out of the shadows?
GERMAN: Right, it legitimized these views so that many more people could come forward and express them, feeling - and frankly, it did become part of the - our mainstream political discourse. And part of that was the media, right? I mean, Donald Trump didn't put a microphone in a (laughter) - in front of a lot of these people. That was the media putting the microphone in front of people whose viewpoints shouldn't be part of our normal political discourse.
GREENE: So the president has now disavowed these groups. I mean, it took him a couple of days. What more does this administration need to do to make sure it's supporting efforts to stop these hate groups?
GERMAN: Well, that disavowal was very reluctant and late. And the white supremacist groups got the message from that, that this is sanctioned. But more important is that the police in these cases - and Charlottesville isn't the first one. They were two in Berkeley. There was one in Sacramento and in Huntington Beach, Calif. - are policing these protests very differently, where they're allowing violence and these running street battles to happen. And that is - that, again, is a state sanctioning of this kind of violence that gives - that makes them far more dangerous.
Utilizing the 25th amendment won't be enough to turn this around, but, like removing Confederate statues, it's a damned good start.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:50 PM on August 15, 2017 [106 favorites]
Statue removal = bad. Statute removal = good.
posted by Elmore at 1:50 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Elmore at 1:50 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
Can we go back to facing a nuclear holocaust like we were last week? I was actually kinda looking forward to having an end to all this.
posted by Capt. Renault at 1:51 PM on August 15, 2017 [49 favorites]
posted by Capt. Renault at 1:51 PM on August 15, 2017 [49 favorites]
I seriously fucking hope there is one goddamn gigantic scoop o'clock today on this fucking embarrassing, incompetent MORONIC ASSHOLE we have in our WHitehouse.
posted by yoga at 1:52 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by yoga at 1:52 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
just look on the bright side at least he's not running a private email server
posted by entropicamericana at 1:52 PM on August 15, 2017 [86 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 1:52 PM on August 15, 2017 [86 favorites]
Can we go back to facing a nuclear holocaust like we were last week? I was actually kinda looking forward to having an end to all this.
The only silver lining to all this is that it seems to have distracted Trump from ending the world, so, y'know, ymmv.
posted by dis_integration at 1:52 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
The only silver lining to all this is that it seems to have distracted Trump from ending the world, so, y'know, ymmv.
posted by dis_integration at 1:52 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
Best stolen Twitter line: "Worst presidential event since JFK came to Dallas"
posted by Talez at 1:52 PM on August 15, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by Talez at 1:52 PM on August 15, 2017 [20 favorites]
Not All Torch-Wielders
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:53 PM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:53 PM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
There shouldn't be the slightest doubt as to what Trump just did:
@DrDavidDuke: Thank you President Trump for your honesty & courage to tell the truth about #Charlottesville & condemn the leftist terrorists in BLM/Antifa
Short of reciting the 14 words from the podium, he couldn't have handed these people a bigger victory.
posted by zachlipton at 1:53 PM on August 15, 2017 [114 favorites]
@DrDavidDuke: Thank you President Trump for your honesty & courage to tell the truth about #Charlottesville & condemn the leftist terrorists in BLM/Antifa
Short of reciting the 14 words from the podium, he couldn't have handed these people a bigger victory.
posted by zachlipton at 1:53 PM on August 15, 2017 [114 favorites]
It's really just about ethics in statue-removal.
posted by suelac at 1:54 PM on August 15, 2017 [38 favorites]
posted by suelac at 1:54 PM on August 15, 2017 [38 favorites]
So that Q&A made me feel super awesome about the counter-protest against Nazis that I'll be participating in on Saturday. I'm sure they're feeling very chastened and ready to peacefully take the hint that they are not welcome in our city.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:54 PM on August 15, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:54 PM on August 15, 2017 [23 favorites]
Can we go back to facing a nuclear holocaust like we were last week? I was actually kinda looking forward to having an end to all this.
The only silver lining to all this is that it seems to have distracted Trump from ending the world, so, y'know, ymmv.
Zack Beauchamp/Vox: While Trump was distracted, North Korea calmed down. That’s not a coincidence.
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:54 PM on August 15, 2017 [31 favorites]
The only silver lining to all this is that it seems to have distracted Trump from ending the world, so, y'know, ymmv.
Zack Beauchamp/Vox: While Trump was distracted, North Korea calmed down. That’s not a coincidence.
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:54 PM on August 15, 2017 [31 favorites]
I wish I had even the smallest smidgen of faith that this latest bout of insanity will change anything. But it won't, right? We'll all get outraged here and on Twitter but then the gaslighting will really kick in, and the media will happily enable it, Republican politicians will fall in line, and suddenly Charlottesville wasn't a Nazi rally, it was just a group of statue enthusiasts who were cruelly harmed by violent leftists.
There are so many people in this man's thrall, there are so many people who have hollowed themselves out and given pieces of themselves away, and for what? For this piece of shit? For what dregs of power they can snatch and hoard and steal away from everyone else in that festering pit of monsters in an endless battle for influence? The moral depravity is perpetually surprising to me, I don't know why.
posted by yasaman at 1:54 PM on August 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
There are so many people in this man's thrall, there are so many people who have hollowed themselves out and given pieces of themselves away, and for what? For this piece of shit? For what dregs of power they can snatch and hoard and steal away from everyone else in that festering pit of monsters in an endless battle for influence? The moral depravity is perpetually surprising to me, I don't know why.
posted by yasaman at 1:54 PM on August 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
Ah, the sweet innocence of half an hour ago.
posted by Behemoth at 1:55 PM on August 15, 2017 [108 favorites]
posted by Behemoth at 1:55 PM on August 15, 2017 [108 favorites]
The only silver lining to all this is that it seems to have distracted Trump from ending the world, so, y'know, ymmv.
I'm on the opposite side of it. This is the first time I've been genuinely worried Trump will want to rage-nuke North Korea (or someone else) just to show he's a big man and in charge. Like I'm seriously hoping every dude carrying the football is preparing himself to shut down the Commander in Chief.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:56 PM on August 15, 2017
I'm on the opposite side of it. This is the first time I've been genuinely worried Trump will want to rage-nuke North Korea (or someone else) just to show he's a big man and in charge. Like I'm seriously hoping every dude carrying the football is preparing himself to shut down the Commander in Chief.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:56 PM on August 15, 2017
Calling my GOP senators to ask if they agree that the President is unfit for office and should resign
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:56 PM on August 15, 2017 [36 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:56 PM on August 15, 2017 [36 favorites]
Can we go back to facing a nuclear holocaust like we were last week?
Geez, these White House theme weeks are something. I would've thought it would be tough to follow Nuclear Holocaust week without losing some of the energy. But White Supremacy Week is shaping up to be even more... exciting?
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:56 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
Geez, these White House theme weeks are something. I would've thought it would be tough to follow Nuclear Holocaust week without losing some of the energy. But White Supremacy Week is shaping up to be even more... exciting?
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:56 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
If the 25th was invoked would we be able to suspend all his executive orders and signed bill because they were signed by simeone unfit to be president?
Also, Nicole Wallace (who used to work in the GWB White House) looks right into the camera and says,"Who resigns over this? Who? Which one of you will resign over this?"
posted by Room 641-A at 1:58 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
Also, Nicole Wallace (who used to work in the GWB White House) looks right into the camera and says,"Who resigns over this? Who? Which one of you will resign over this?"
posted by Room 641-A at 1:58 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
There are so many people in this man's thrall, there are so many people who have hollowed themselves out and given pieces of themselves away, and for what?
Dignity wraiths.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:59 PM on August 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
Dignity wraiths.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:59 PM on August 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
Calling my GOP senators to ask if they agree that the President is unfit for office and should resign
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94
More people should do this. I've been using the post-Charlottesville clusterfuck to make this case on facebook, forcefully but politely, making it clear in the posts that I'm particularly addressing people who have republicans representing them. No clue if it's helping, but it makes me feel like I'm doing something.
posted by the phlegmatic king at 1:59 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94
More people should do this. I've been using the post-Charlottesville clusterfuck to make this case on facebook, forcefully but politely, making it clear in the posts that I'm particularly addressing people who have republicans representing them. No clue if it's helping, but it makes me feel like I'm doing something.
posted by the phlegmatic king at 1:59 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
I hope people appreciate what a full-blown national crisis this is. White supremacists are pissing themselves with glee right now. This will only get worse.
posted by dry white toast at 2:00 PM on August 15, 2017 [69 favorites]
posted by dry white toast at 2:00 PM on August 15, 2017 [69 favorites]
Is there a transcript of the president's remarks anywhere yet? I'm trying to explain to folks on FB what just happened.
posted by timestep at 2:02 PM on August 15, 2017
posted by timestep at 2:02 PM on August 15, 2017
I hope people appreciate what a full-blown national crisis this is. White supremacists are pissing themselves with glee right now. This will only get worse.
I hope so too. This is not just the usual firehose of awful and crazy.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:03 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
I hope so too. This is not just the usual firehose of awful and crazy.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:03 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Someone should ask him about the annexation of the Sudetenland.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:04 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:04 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Not a transcript, but a lot of the really awful quotes in this WaPo story: Trump again blames both sides in Charlottesville, says some counterprotesters were ‘very, very violent’
posted by tonycpsu at 2:04 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 2:04 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
timestep: the CSPAN link above has an approximate captioning underneath it.
posted by jessamyn at 2:05 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by jessamyn at 2:05 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Is there a transcript of the president's remarks anywhere yet? I'm trying to explain to folks on FB what just happened.
Just send 'em to Daniel Dale's twitter feed. He threaded the whole thing.
posted by dry white toast at 2:05 PM on August 15, 2017
Just send 'em to Daniel Dale's twitter feed. He threaded the whole thing.
posted by dry white toast at 2:05 PM on August 15, 2017
Will someone more artistically inclined than I am turn the A Confederacy of Dunces cover image into a portrait of DJT instead of IJR? Retitled A Dunce of the Confederacy?
posted by emelenjr at 2:05 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by emelenjr at 2:05 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Is there a transcript of the president's remarks anywhere yet? I'm trying to explain to folks on FB what just happened.
People need to watch and hear and see the entire thing as soon as they can. It was an extended angry rant, and it got worse and worse and worse.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:05 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
People need to watch and hear and see the entire thing as soon as they can. It was an extended angry rant, and it got worse and worse and worse.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:05 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
partial transcript here
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:05 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:05 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
I agree. Watch if you can. Reading quotes doesn't do it justice.
posted by zachlipton at 2:07 PM on August 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 2:07 PM on August 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
Politico has a transcript here.
I am stunned and struggling to try to work.
posted by prefpara at 2:08 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
I am stunned and struggling to try to work.
posted by prefpara at 2:08 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
The Politico transcript isn't complete.
posted by christopherious at 2:09 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by christopherious at 2:09 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
MetaFilter: I am stunned and struggling to try to work
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:09 PM on August 15, 2017 [36 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:09 PM on August 15, 2017 [36 favorites]
Looks like Trump went a little off-script.
posted by Talez at 2:09 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Talez at 2:09 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
> Vox deserves blame for a lot of things, but the only uses of alt-left I see on the site are two quotes, and I don't see any uses of that term on Klein or Yglesias's twitters.
And now Atrios is complaining about these unnamed liberals who apparently have been using alt-left to attack leftists. Where is this meme coming from? Of course some assholes are doing it -- is the claim that Trump wouldn't have used it if they weren't? He turned "fake news" around against his enemies in the media -- of course he was going to try to turn "alt-right" around against the left, with or without assholes using it to try to win an argument about tactics.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:10 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
And now Atrios is complaining about these unnamed liberals who apparently have been using alt-left to attack leftists. Where is this meme coming from? Of course some assholes are doing it -- is the claim that Trump wouldn't have used it if they weren't? He turned "fake news" around against his enemies in the media -- of course he was going to try to turn "alt-right" around against the left, with or without assholes using it to try to win an argument about tactics.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:10 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Looks like Trump went a little off-script.
He went precisely on script. That's a quote from what he said on Saturday. He was reading from it while he was defending his statement. He brought that with him so he could do this.
posted by zachlipton at 2:11 PM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
He went precisely on script. That's a quote from what he said on Saturday. He was reading from it while he was defending his statement. He brought that with him so he could do this.
posted by zachlipton at 2:11 PM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
So, how long do we think this will hold the record for the most bananas thing a President has ever said on television? Another week?
The truly remarkable thing is that I have complete certainty we haven't hit rock bottom. Nowhere close.
posted by dry white toast at 2:11 PM on August 15, 2017 [39 favorites]
The truly remarkable thing is that I have complete certainty we haven't hit rock bottom. Nowhere close.
posted by dry white toast at 2:11 PM on August 15, 2017 [39 favorites]
The President has previously made a moral equivalency between the United States and the Russian Federation, in terms of their treatment of dissent. Today he made a more explicit moral equivalency between the United States and the Confederate Rebellion.
I don't want to hear people saying they support this man out of patriotism.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:12 PM on August 15, 2017 [37 favorites]
I don't want to hear people saying they support this man out of patriotism.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:12 PM on August 15, 2017 [37 favorites]
We regret to inform you that Ethernet is now milkshake duck.
@BobMetcalfe: Michael Dell, please remain on President Trump's advisory council. Don't cave to fake pressure from leftist "resistance."
[For context, that was from a couple hours ago, before this press conference]
posted by zachlipton at 2:13 PM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
@BobMetcalfe: Michael Dell, please remain on President Trump's advisory council. Don't cave to fake pressure from leftist "resistance."
[For context, that was from a couple hours ago, before this press conference]
posted by zachlipton at 2:13 PM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
A useful read, from Jacobin: "Burying the lie of the 'Alt-Left"'
posted by standardasparagus at 2:14 PM on August 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by standardasparagus at 2:14 PM on August 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
Metcalfe's been a troll for at least 25 years.
posted by ocschwar at 2:14 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by ocschwar at 2:14 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Dell, along with General Electric, is one of those companies which depends on government contracts while also being a major consumer brand. It will be interesting to see who goes next.
I would suggest that all the defense contractors leave at the same time, so Trump won't be able to effectively punish one of them. That's free advice guys, you're welcome
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:15 PM on August 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
I would suggest that all the defense contractors leave at the same time, so Trump won't be able to effectively punish one of them. That's free advice guys, you're welcome
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:15 PM on August 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
So . . will this continue turning into the Trumpian Kent State moment?
posted by rc3spencer at 2:17 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by rc3spencer at 2:17 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
If the 25th was invoked would we be able to suspend all his executive orders and signed bill because they were signed by simeone unfit to be president?
Acting President Mike Pence would be able to reverse any of Trump's executive orders (or those of any previous president, for that matter), if he so desired.
Not so for bills signed into law, because those are acts of Congress, and can only be undone by Congress (or a court, if it finds the law unconstitutional).
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 2:18 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Acting President Mike Pence would be able to reverse any of Trump's executive orders (or those of any previous president, for that matter), if he so desired.
Not so for bills signed into law, because those are acts of Congress, and can only be undone by Congress (or a court, if it finds the law unconstitutional).
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 2:18 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
yall know that, if fed the term "alt-right," even trump's pea brain is capable of coming up with "alt-left" independently, right? despite what my twitter feed is saying, I don't think liberals 'giving' trump a magic word of power is the worst thing to come out of that press conference
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:18 PM on August 15, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:18 PM on August 15, 2017 [15 favorites]
And now Atrios is complaining about these unnamed liberals who apparently have been using alt-left to attack leftists.
Joy Reid and Sally Albright are two recent culprits in using the term to punch left.
posted by Existential Dread at 2:18 PM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
Joy Reid and Sally Albright are two recent culprits in using the term to punch left.
posted by Existential Dread at 2:18 PM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
I'm not watching (because I value my own sanity), but apparently Fox News is tearing Trump to shreds over what he said.
If and when the Right does actually turn on him, it will be because he made it impossible to pretend their beliefs and policies were fuelled by anything besides racism.
posted by dry white toast at 2:18 PM on August 15, 2017 [17 favorites]
If and when the Right does actually turn on him, it will be because he made it impossible to pretend their beliefs and policies were fuelled by anything besides racism.
posted by dry white toast at 2:18 PM on August 15, 2017 [17 favorites]
I'm not watching (because I value my own sanity), but apparently Fox News is tearing Trump to shreds over what he said.
This lacks the required context of whether it's Shep Smith doing the tearing
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:20 PM on August 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
This lacks the required context of whether it's Shep Smith doing the tearing
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:20 PM on August 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
If and when the Right does actually turn on him, it will be because he made it impossible to pretend their beliefs and policies were fuelled by anything besides racism.
And because (FSM willing) he has made their political project electorally radioactive for at least another generation.
posted by non canadian guy at 2:24 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
And because (FSM willing) he has made their political project electorally radioactive for at least another generation.
posted by non canadian guy at 2:24 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
OH hey we had a whole conversation about the Alt-Left designation in a previous thread and its application to the "left" dudes who are actively misogynistic and/or Russia shills, but whatever, fuck women and who gives a shit about treason right? Yup, when the piece of shit President with a cesspool of a soul co-opts yet another term for his own Orwellian purposes, as he's done many times before and will do again because he is an amoral liar, let's blame the women for speaking up against misogyny in the first place rather than, you know, the Orwellian Nazi piece of shit.
Least surprising turn of events ever. Even here. Perhaps especially here.
Naming the Alt-Left didn't hand 45 a rhetorical weapon; it helped name and define abusers on the left. And 45 will do whatever the fuck he wants because he is the Abuser-In-Chief. Try not to help him do that. We don't need everyone who opposes him to be angels; we need to focus on the fact that he's a FUCKING NAZI.
I mean, Jesus Christ, that women who spoke up against the Alt-Left are your focus right now -- what the fuck is wrong with you?
posted by schadenfrau at 2:25 PM on August 15, 2017 [60 favorites]
Least surprising turn of events ever. Even here. Perhaps especially here.
Naming the Alt-Left didn't hand 45 a rhetorical weapon; it helped name and define abusers on the left. And 45 will do whatever the fuck he wants because he is the Abuser-In-Chief. Try not to help him do that. We don't need everyone who opposes him to be angels; we need to focus on the fact that he's a FUCKING NAZI.
I mean, Jesus Christ, that women who spoke up against the Alt-Left are your focus right now -- what the fuck is wrong with you?
posted by schadenfrau at 2:25 PM on August 15, 2017 [60 favorites]
Imagine being Elaine Chao during that press conference. I wish the camera had been zoomed out a bit so she could be permanently associated with "there were fine people on both sides! they just wanted to defend the leader of a racist rebellion!"
posted by dis_integration at 2:25 PM on August 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 2:25 PM on August 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
Today, Donald Trump managed to perfectly encapsulate thousands and thousands of words that have been written and spoken about the nature of white supremacy over the past few decades in just 25 short minutes.
Very few white supremacists self-identify as such. They talk instead about the preservation of history, they draw false equivalence between those organizing to commit genocide and those who oppose them, they discredit any version of reality that does not comply with their own, and most importantly, they absolutely refuse to engage in anything approaching a nanosecond of reflection and self-criticism.
But in all honesty, they can't do this on their own. White supremacists like Trump are cushioned on all sides by a wide buffer zone of people who consider themselves to be on the right side of history but nonetheless scold the oppressed for being too angry and lecture people to "stop making this about race; we're all Americans". Those opposing fascism burn so much powder trying to convince ostensible allies (whose solidarity is apparently contingent on playing nice and letting the system take care of itself) that they have little energy left to burn on fighting actual fascists.
Trump has illustrated quite clearly exactly how you can buoy white supremacy on the spirit of equivocation. After today, it should be clear that Trump isn't trying just to speak to actual fascists; he's also trying to appeal to this pervasive and ugly distortion of reality that committing violence and defending yourself from violence are the exact same thing. Future generations will judge us by whether we choose to continue to embrace that lie or reject it.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 2:28 PM on August 15, 2017 [94 favorites]
Very few white supremacists self-identify as such. They talk instead about the preservation of history, they draw false equivalence between those organizing to commit genocide and those who oppose them, they discredit any version of reality that does not comply with their own, and most importantly, they absolutely refuse to engage in anything approaching a nanosecond of reflection and self-criticism.
But in all honesty, they can't do this on their own. White supremacists like Trump are cushioned on all sides by a wide buffer zone of people who consider themselves to be on the right side of history but nonetheless scold the oppressed for being too angry and lecture people to "stop making this about race; we're all Americans". Those opposing fascism burn so much powder trying to convince ostensible allies (whose solidarity is apparently contingent on playing nice and letting the system take care of itself) that they have little energy left to burn on fighting actual fascists.
Trump has illustrated quite clearly exactly how you can buoy white supremacy on the spirit of equivocation. After today, it should be clear that Trump isn't trying just to speak to actual fascists; he's also trying to appeal to this pervasive and ugly distortion of reality that committing violence and defending yourself from violence are the exact same thing. Future generations will judge us by whether we choose to continue to embrace that lie or reject it.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 2:28 PM on August 15, 2017 [94 favorites]
apparently Fox News is tearing Trump to shreds over what he said.
presumably he wasn't strident enough?
posted by entropicamericana at 2:29 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
presumably he wasn't strident enough?
posted by entropicamericana at 2:29 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
The one thing that surprises me here is that he's still self-aware enough to know that Nazis are bad. He's defending these guys by claiming some of them aren't Nazis.
He's wrong, of course, and the facts clearly contradict everything he asserts. But he still hasn't gone full fascist: he still won't say that it's ok to be a Nazi.
posted by suelac at 2:31 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
He's wrong, of course, and the facts clearly contradict everything he asserts. But he still hasn't gone full fascist: he still won't say that it's ok to be a Nazi.
posted by suelac at 2:31 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Kyle Griffen has a bunch of individual quotes/moments along with the video on his Twitter feed. Good for context without volume, if that's an issue.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:32 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Room 641-A at 2:32 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Just checking the box, since we all knew this would happen:
Per sources: Ivanka/Jared among those pushing Trump to more forcefully denounce neo-Nazis, KKK and white nationalists over the weekend... (Glenn Thrush tweet - full text)
posted by prefpara at 2:32 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Per sources: Ivanka/Jared among those pushing Trump to more forcefully denounce neo-Nazis, KKK and white nationalists over the weekend... (Glenn Thrush tweet - full text)
posted by prefpara at 2:32 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yeah, somebody pointed out to him that Nazis would gladly kill Ivanka and Jared if given the chance. That may have gotten through to him.
But he doesn't give a fuck about any other aspect of this. And if he could see the Nazis giving Ivanka and Jared a pass, I doubt he'd even denounce them this much.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:33 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
But he doesn't give a fuck about any other aspect of this. And if he could see the Nazis giving Ivanka and Jared a pass, I doubt he'd even denounce them this much.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:33 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
CNN appears to have a full transcript now.
posted by christopherious at 2:34 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by christopherious at 2:34 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Annie Karni (@anniekarni) on twitter: Just noticed the use of "us" in this transcript. "Okay, what about the alt-left that came charging at us."
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 2:34 PM on August 15, 2017 [79 favorites]
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 2:34 PM on August 15, 2017 [79 favorites]
I bet he thinks Ivanka is, you know, not really Jewish.
posted by PenDevil at 2:35 PM on August 15, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 2:35 PM on August 15, 2017 [23 favorites]
Ask your congresscritter to contact Rep. Green and have him amend his articles of impeachment to include Pence.
That should at least put the fire under Pence's ass to get going on the 25th amendment while he still can.
posted by ocschwar at 2:36 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
That should at least put the fire under Pence's ass to get going on the 25th amendment while he still can.
posted by ocschwar at 2:36 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
Okay, what about the alt-left that came charging at us – excuse me – what about the alt-left that came charging at the, as you say, the alt right? Do they have any semblance of guilt?
AT US. AT US. AT. US.
We all know why he made this little "slip of the tongue."
posted by yasaman at 2:36 PM on August 15, 2017 [102 favorites]
AT US. AT US. AT. US.
We all know why he made this little "slip of the tongue."
posted by yasaman at 2:36 PM on August 15, 2017 [102 favorites]
Agreeing that the transcripts don't do it justice. Though it was bad for my composure and I was rocking myself back and forth in my chair by the end of it, I watched the video. It is horrifying. And then I called my reps to ask when they're going to do something about him.
posted by danielleh at 2:36 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by danielleh at 2:36 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
No Trump truly gives a shit about anyone who is not themselves, and I'd include spouses.
posted by Artw at 2:37 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 2:37 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
"In fact, the young woman who I hear is a fantastic young women, and it was on NBC, her mother wrote me and said through, I guess, Twitter, social media, the nicest things and I very much appreciate that." (re: Heather Heyer)
WHAT.
THE.
FUCK.
posted by entropicamericana at 2:37 PM on August 15, 2017 [40 favorites]
WHAT.
THE.
FUCK.
posted by entropicamericana at 2:37 PM on August 15, 2017 [40 favorites]
I just called Senator Toomey's office* to ask when he is going to address the Trump's racist comments. The staffer was so cranky** and stressed. I'm guessing they just got a ton of irate calls since the press conference.
Moral of the story: call your members of congress. Put the heat on them for standing with this "president."
* I can't count the number of times I've said that in the past 7 months.
** For those that call the Philly office regularly, no, it wasn't Phil. It was one of the women who is generally quite pleasant.
posted by mcduff at 2:37 PM on August 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
Moral of the story: call your members of congress. Put the heat on them for standing with this "president."
* I can't count the number of times I've said that in the past 7 months.
** For those that call the Philly office regularly, no, it wasn't Phil. It was one of the women who is generally quite pleasant.
posted by mcduff at 2:37 PM on August 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
so, i guess what donald trump is really saying is that if we've all got good jobs we won't have time to bother each other about things like statues
posted by pyramid termite at 2:39 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 2:39 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
@maggieNYT: We had been told Potus wasn't doing questions. He chose to overrule staff
I love this. He was just so darn tootin' mad that he didn't get enough praise for his lukewarm statement yesterday that he decided fuck it, I'm perfect, only idiots don't know how awesome the thoughts I have are, the lefties were just as bad as the Nazis, let's do this shit. By the way, I've got a house in Charlottesville, you fucks.
posted by dis_integration at 2:40 PM on August 15, 2017 [48 favorites]
I love this. He was just so darn tootin' mad that he didn't get enough praise for his lukewarm statement yesterday that he decided fuck it, I'm perfect, only idiots don't know how awesome the thoughts I have are, the lefties were just as bad as the Nazis, let's do this shit. By the way, I've got a house in Charlottesville, you fucks.
posted by dis_integration at 2:40 PM on August 15, 2017 [48 favorites]
Annie Karni (@anniekarni) on twitter: Just noticed the use of "us" in this transcript. "Okay, what about the alt-left that came charging at us."
The transcript quotes him like that, and you guys know I never ever want to give this guy the benefit of the doubt on anything, but listen to the clip for yourself. I'm not convinced that bit of the transcript is accurate.
posted by zachlipton at 2:41 PM on August 15, 2017 [19 favorites]
The transcript quotes him like that, and you guys know I never ever want to give this guy the benefit of the doubt on anything, but listen to the clip for yourself. I'm not convinced that bit of the transcript is accurate.
posted by zachlipton at 2:41 PM on August 15, 2017 [19 favorites]
I'm watching the press conference and I'm not seeing him say 'at us'
posted by gofargogo at 2:42 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by gofargogo at 2:42 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Anne Frank Center @AnneFrankCenter
Dear @Twitter corporate: He is an accomplice to domestic terrorism. If you can't end @POTUS account, at least end @realDonaldTrump account.
7:12 AM · Aug 15, 2017
posted by Room 641-A at 2:42 PM on August 15, 2017 [94 favorites]
Dear @Twitter corporate: He is an accomplice to domestic terrorism. If you can't end @POTUS account, at least end @realDonaldTrump account.
7:12 AM · Aug 15, 2017
posted by Room 641-A at 2:42 PM on August 15, 2017 [94 favorites]
The other transcript has "them," though I don't have the stomach to listen to any more of the video.
posted by cui bono at 2:42 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by cui bono at 2:42 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm watching the press conference and I'm not seeing him say 'at us'
It seems like "at em".
posted by Talez at 2:45 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
It seems like "at em".
posted by Talez at 2:45 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Just woke up from a nap. Did I miss anything?
...
Holy shit.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 2:45 PM on August 15, 2017 [24 favorites]
...
Holy shit.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 2:45 PM on August 15, 2017 [24 favorites]
Yeah, I listened to it three times and I hear it as "at 'em."
posted by obliviax at 2:46 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by obliviax at 2:46 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
(Still fucking gross.)
posted by obliviax at 2:47 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by obliviax at 2:47 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
I agree that he said "at 'em". Plenty to condemn this man for without the inaccurate transcription.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:47 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:47 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Trump just compared Jefferson and Washington morally to the Confederates. Literally.
After explaining how Jefferson/Washington were British and went against their rulers the next boogieman of The Masons will be brought up and how they also didn't cheerfully follow their leader per THAT oath.
the Orwellian Nazi
Someone go dig up Eric Blair, strap magnets to the corpse, wrap the grave with copper and re-bury to gather the energy from his spinning over those words together.
posted by rough ashlar at 2:49 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
After explaining how Jefferson/Washington were British and went against their rulers the next boogieman of The Masons will be brought up and how they also didn't cheerfully follow their leader per THAT oath.
the Orwellian Nazi
Someone go dig up Eric Blair, strap magnets to the corpse, wrap the grave with copper and re-bury to gather the energy from his spinning over those words together.
posted by rough ashlar at 2:49 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
It hadn't occured to me that the President's very sensible and politically-moderating Jewish family members have not been able to persuade him to convincingly oppose people holding Nazi flags, but yeah that is a thing that is happening
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:49 PM on August 15, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:49 PM on August 15, 2017 [15 favorites]
And now the AFL-CIO is leaving Trump's manufacturing council. Took long enough.
posted by zachlipton at 2:50 PM on August 15, 2017 [90 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 2:50 PM on August 15, 2017 [90 favorites]
The "us" is very much there in spirit.
posted by Artw at 2:51 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 2:51 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
I look forward to seeing how badly Trump's HoP robots get vandalized one day.
posted by obtuser at 2:51 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by obtuser at 2:51 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
If Trump is removed from office he'll metamorphose into the full blown aggrieved leader of a resurgent Nazi MAGA party. I still want him gone asap but it's not going to end this nightmare.
posted by theodolite at 2:51 PM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 2:51 PM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
Ryan, McConnell, and others will "object" and have "concerns" about this, of course. The same sort of objections Robert E. Lee had to slavery.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:52 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:52 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
Richard Trumka of the AFL-CIO: I cannot sit on a council for a President that tolerates bigotry and domestic terrorism; I resign, effective immediately.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:52 PM on August 15, 2017 [68 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:52 PM on August 15, 2017 [68 favorites]
If Trump is removed from office he'll metamorphose into the full blown aggrieved leader of a resurgent Nazi MAGA party.
No, he won't. He'll just go back to looking for other countries to borrow money from so that he can build more golf courses.
posted by Melismata at 2:52 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
No, he won't. He'll just go back to looking for other countries to borrow money from so that he can build more golf courses.
posted by Melismata at 2:52 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yeah it's pretty amazing that some billionaire CEOs were able to bail on Trump before the supposed core of the US labor unions did.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 2:53 PM on August 15, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 2:53 PM on August 15, 2017 [27 favorites]
No, he won't. He'll just go back to looking for other countries to borrow money from so that he can build more golf courses.
He won't find any.
posted by ocschwar at 2:53 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
He won't find any.
posted by ocschwar at 2:53 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm sort of sympathetic for unions wanting to stick around and influence policy and not be victims of a right-wing government, but yeah, there are limits that have been enthusiastically broken.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:55 PM on August 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:55 PM on August 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
You know, it's bad when as of this post WTFJHT can't keep up.
posted by The Power Nap at 2:56 PM on August 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by The Power Nap at 2:56 PM on August 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
It hadn't occured to me that the President's very sensible and politically-moderating Jewish family members have not been able to persuade him to convincingly oppose people holding Nazi flags, but yeah that is a thing that is happening
Don't worry, they told Glenn Thrush at the NYT that they really really tried to get him to denounce Nazis. Like super really tried.
posted by PenDevil at 2:58 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Don't worry, they told Glenn Thrush at the NYT that they really really tried to get him to denounce Nazis. Like super really tried.
posted by PenDevil at 2:58 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm glad the CEOs resigning from the manufacturing council now recognize the guy who spent years pushing the racist birther conspiracy theory, who seems to have picked Ben Carson to be HUD Secretary only because he's black, who spent years calling for the deaths of the Central Park Five, who discriminated against blacks in his housing complexes, who has riled up Nazis across America, might not have totally great opinions on race in America.
This isn't news to anyone who's been paying attention. Maybe they should do some cursory research next time.
posted by 0xFCAF at 2:58 PM on August 15, 2017 [44 favorites]
This isn't news to anyone who's been paying attention. Maybe they should do some cursory research next time.
posted by 0xFCAF at 2:58 PM on August 15, 2017 [44 favorites]
Dell's income is from a market where competition is fierce, and many of their competitors will not be seen as enabling Nazism. But a lot of their revenue also comes from the federal government. But perhaps this president will not be around for so long. This must be an agonizing decision for Michael Dell! My advice is to think about what Hitler would do, and do the opposite.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:58 PM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:58 PM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
I'm sort of sympathetic for unions wanting to stick around and influence policy
If Kelly couldn't stop Trump from getting out in front of cameras and blathering this sort of racist shit, what chance do union leaders have of influencing him on any sort of policy? At all?
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:59 PM on August 15, 2017 [23 favorites]
If Kelly couldn't stop Trump from getting out in front of cameras and blathering this sort of racist shit, what chance do union leaders have of influencing him on any sort of policy? At all?
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:59 PM on August 15, 2017 [23 favorites]
No, he won't. He'll just go back to looking for other countries to borrow money from so that he can build more golf courses.
I think he loves constant cable news coverage of his face and screaming crowds even more than he loves money. But even if you're right, the millions of fascists in this country have tasted power and they're not going to hide anymore.
posted by theodolite at 2:59 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
I think he loves constant cable news coverage of his face and screaming crowds even more than he loves money. But even if you're right, the millions of fascists in this country have tasted power and they're not going to hide anymore.
posted by theodolite at 2:59 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Everyone's been aware Trump is a vile racist. They were just hoping he'd have the sense to keep a lid on it to some degree, and he forced their hand.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 3:00 PM on August 15, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 3:00 PM on August 15, 2017 [15 favorites]
Has any media person ever asked him, "HOW do you check what's a fact? HOW do you check that your sources are credible? Do you check Fox against Breitbart against InfoWars?"
Shine a fucking light on the fact that he is their mouthpiece, for fuck's sake. Who do I need to tweet at to ask this? Maggie Haberman?
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 3:00 PM on August 15, 2017 [18 favorites]
Shine a fucking light on the fact that he is their mouthpiece, for fuck's sake. Who do I need to tweet at to ask this? Maggie Haberman?
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 3:00 PM on August 15, 2017 [18 favorites]
> "He ends with: 'All men are created equal' is an ideological statement. Where is the scientific or historic proof for it?"
Some of us hold that truth to be self-evident, Pat.
posted by kyrademon at 3:00 PM on August 15, 2017 [75 favorites]
Some of us hold that truth to be self-evident, Pat.
posted by kyrademon at 3:00 PM on August 15, 2017 [75 favorites]
Hey here is my list of bad things about Trump before he even became President, it is quite large! Now the list would be somewhat larger than large!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:04 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:04 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
Has any media person ever asked him, "HOW do you check what's a fact? HOW do you check that your sources are credible? Do you check Fox against Breitbart against InfoWars?"
Has any media person ever got to finish a question? EXCUSE ME. Hand gestures. Talks about how bigly he is, you fake news person, and moves on.
posted by Elmore at 3:05 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
Has any media person ever got to finish a question? EXCUSE ME. Hand gestures. Talks about how bigly he is, you fake news person, and moves on.
posted by Elmore at 3:05 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
Trumo: Is it murder? Is it terrorism? Then you get into legal semantics."
Legal semantics? That's...not how it works?
IANAL.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:05 PM on August 15, 2017
Legal semantics? That's...not how it works?
IANAL.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:05 PM on August 15, 2017
Yeah it's pretty amazing that some billionaire CEOs were able to bail on Trump before the supposed core of the US labor unions did.
In the unions' defense, shit has been happening really fast, and mostly over a weekend.
posted by mr_roboto at 3:05 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
In the unions' defense, shit has been happening really fast, and mostly over a weekend.
posted by mr_roboto at 3:05 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
National Treasure Charles P. Pierce of Esquire: Maybe Next Time Stick to the Notes
After the president* took his sojourn into the izonkosphere on Tuesday afternoon, CNN cut back to Tapper, who looked very much like a man who had seen space aliens humping in his jacuzzi. I give him credit for having been able to say anything at all. I sat there in silent awe and petrified wonder for a good two minutes.
All the hinges are gone now. The rails are far behind. The trolley is missing and presumed lost. The president* came down to the lobby of his Manhattan tower, ostensibly to sign an executive order on "infrastructure." He then took questions and we all went on a magic carpet ride through what he really thinks about the events in Charlottesville last weekend. For three days, whatever sensible people remain at Camp Runamuck have been trying to find some way to run damage control on the president*'s initial, ridiculous non-response to those events, whereupon, on Tuesday, the president* stepped up to the mic and blew all that work into tiny bits. Quite simply, the only president* we have lost his shit so badly on live TV that he'll never be able to find it again.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:09 PM on August 15, 2017 [57 favorites]
After the president* took his sojourn into the izonkosphere on Tuesday afternoon, CNN cut back to Tapper, who looked very much like a man who had seen space aliens humping in his jacuzzi. I give him credit for having been able to say anything at all. I sat there in silent awe and petrified wonder for a good two minutes.
All the hinges are gone now. The rails are far behind. The trolley is missing and presumed lost. The president* came down to the lobby of his Manhattan tower, ostensibly to sign an executive order on "infrastructure." He then took questions and we all went on a magic carpet ride through what he really thinks about the events in Charlottesville last weekend. For three days, whatever sensible people remain at Camp Runamuck have been trying to find some way to run damage control on the president*'s initial, ridiculous non-response to those events, whereupon, on Tuesday, the president* stepped up to the mic and blew all that work into tiny bits. Quite simply, the only president* we have lost his shit so badly on live TV that he'll never be able to find it again.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:09 PM on August 15, 2017 [57 favorites]
Has any media person ever got to finish a question? EXCUSE ME. Hand gestures. Talks about how bigly he is, you fake news person, and moves on.
I've fantasized myself about the One Weird Old Question To Destroy Trump but yeah, he treats questions as themes to riff on rather than requests for specific information.
posted by theodolite at 3:10 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
I've fantasized myself about the One Weird Old Question To Destroy Trump but yeah, he treats questions as themes to riff on rather than requests for specific information.
posted by theodolite at 3:10 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
In the unions' defense, shit has been happening really fast, and mostly over a weekend.
Would that last weekend was the only time Trump gave representatives of the working class reason to refuse to cooperate in the first place, let alone sever ties.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 3:11 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Would that last weekend was the only time Trump gave representatives of the working class reason to refuse to cooperate in the first place, let alone sever ties.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 3:11 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm afraid this is going to be the first of many Kent State Moments for the President.
posted by notyou at 3:12 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by notyou at 3:12 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
Journalists aren't willing to humiliate themselves sufficiently to ask him the truly damaging questions. "Mr President, what are your favorite things about the Confederacy?" "Mr President, what are the advantages of having a Caucasian genetic heritage?"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:13 PM on August 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:13 PM on August 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
The other day I joked with Mrs. nushustu that next year the Dems should run w/ the motto "Vote Democrat if for no other reason than we're NOT the Nazi party."
Now it's not even a joke.
posted by nushustu at 3:13 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
Now it's not even a joke.
posted by nushustu at 3:13 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
goddamn, this was broadcast into space and aliens are going to see it
I know that's not an imminent or maybe real concern, but Jesus, the thought makes me want to hide.
posted by angrycat at 3:14 PM on August 15, 2017 [24 favorites]
I know that's not an imminent or maybe real concern, but Jesus, the thought makes me want to hide.
posted by angrycat at 3:14 PM on August 15, 2017 [24 favorites]
This must be an agonizing decision for Michael Dell! My advice is to think about what Hitler would do, and do the opposite.
Hey, say what you like about Michael Dell, but he had some pretty good ideas.
posted by thelonius at 3:15 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Hey, say what you like about Michael Dell, but he had some pretty good ideas.
posted by thelonius at 3:15 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Has any media person ever got to finish a question? EXCUSE ME. Hand gestures. Talks about how bigly he is, you fake news person, and moves on.
Very much this. I'm sure even his sit-down interviews are heavily vetted. This is why most of the great reporting on Trump is happening from behind a desk. Press conferences are pretty much just an opportunity to rustle his jimmies into saying something outrageous, which you can apparently do without really trying.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 3:16 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Very much this. I'm sure even his sit-down interviews are heavily vetted. This is why most of the great reporting on Trump is happening from behind a desk. Press conferences are pretty much just an opportunity to rustle his jimmies into saying something outrageous, which you can apparently do without really trying.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 3:16 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
No, he won't. He'll just go back to looking for other countries to borrow money from so that he can build more golf courses.
Once his grift runs out, his goose is cooked. He's in debt up to his eyeballs to some very nasty people, who will call his debts in. Those propping him up will cut him loose. Metaphorically, he can expect to end up like Mussolini, Ceausescu or Gaddafi, and, on some level, he probably knows it.
And that's the frightening thing: if it's a choice between swinging, alone, from a lamp post on piano wire, or using his supreme executive power to extinguish the failing human race in a big bang (by, say, ordering a massive nuclear strike on his creditors in Moscow, guaranteeing automatic massive retaliation), would Trump really have the humility to choose the former?
posted by acb at 3:17 PM on August 15, 2017 [24 favorites]
Once his grift runs out, his goose is cooked. He's in debt up to his eyeballs to some very nasty people, who will call his debts in. Those propping him up will cut him loose. Metaphorically, he can expect to end up like Mussolini, Ceausescu or Gaddafi, and, on some level, he probably knows it.
And that's the frightening thing: if it's a choice between swinging, alone, from a lamp post on piano wire, or using his supreme executive power to extinguish the failing human race in a big bang (by, say, ordering a massive nuclear strike on his creditors in Moscow, guaranteeing automatic massive retaliation), would Trump really have the humility to choose the former?
posted by acb at 3:17 PM on August 15, 2017 [24 favorites]
Kushner Cos faces lawsuit claiming rent overcharging in New York (Reuters/Raw Story)
posted by Room 641-A at 3:19 PM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
The lawsuit is based on an investigation of the building by Housing Rights Initiative, a tenant-rights advocacy group. The organization’s founder, Aaron Carr, said the Kushner Cos rented units for about $2,500 per month but tenants should have been charged substantially less than that.NBC Breaking: WH officials say Trump went rogue, are "stunned" (<-- not verbatim)
Lucas Ferrara, a lawyer for the plaintiffs, said the building’s rent-stabilized status was easy to ascertain through due diligence. “It is our contention that this private owner either intentionally or indifferently failed to follow the regulations of the rent law,” he said.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:19 PM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
Journalists aren't willing to humiliate themselves sufficiently to ask him the truly damaging questions. "Mr President, what are your favorite things about the Confederacy?"
Someone did repeatedly ask him if he supported the confederacy. He didn't answer.
posted by zachlipton at 3:20 PM on August 15, 2017 [36 favorites]
Someone did repeatedly ask him if he supported the confederacy. He didn't answer.
posted by zachlipton at 3:20 PM on August 15, 2017 [36 favorites]
goddamn, this was broadcast into space and aliens are going to see it
He was following alien logic, so it should make sense to them.
posted by msalt at 3:21 PM on August 15, 2017
He was following alien logic, so it should make sense to them.
posted by msalt at 3:21 PM on August 15, 2017
goddamn, this was broadcast into space and aliens are going to see it
I want to beliebe
posted by Elmore at 3:24 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
I want to beliebe
posted by Elmore at 3:24 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
Kushner Cos faces lawsuit claiming rent overcharging in New York
What this article doesn't mention is that Kushner has also been pulling this shit in Baltimore.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 3:24 PM on August 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
What this article doesn't mention is that Kushner has also been pulling this shit in Baltimore.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 3:24 PM on August 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
Once his grift runs out, his goose is cooked. He's in debt up to his eyeballs to some very nasty people, who will call his debts in. Those propping him up will cut him loose.
He will be useful to any foreign power with an interest in destabilizing the United States as long as long as there is a revanchist neo-Confederate / KKK / neo-Nazi political streak in those same United States. They are not going to touch him.
posted by schadenfrau at 3:24 PM on August 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
He will be useful to any foreign power with an interest in destabilizing the United States as long as long as there is a revanchist neo-Confederate / KKK / neo-Nazi political streak in those same United States. They are not going to touch him.
posted by schadenfrau at 3:24 PM on August 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
Actual quote: "You have some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group -- excuse me, excuse me -- I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."
Who are these very fine far-right protesters? What did they do? They opposed the taking down from a public space of a statue of a man who sought to destroy the United States of America and secure slavery and white supremacy in perpetuity. They protested alongside a man who drove a car into people who opposed this viewpoint. They protested alongside men holding the flag of Nazi Germany. And now, according to the President, the time is right to loudly acclaim the quality of those people. They are Trump's people. They are the finest people. Believe me.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:24 PM on August 15, 2017 [31 favorites]
Who are these very fine far-right protesters? What did they do? They opposed the taking down from a public space of a statue of a man who sought to destroy the United States of America and secure slavery and white supremacy in perpetuity. They protested alongside a man who drove a car into people who opposed this viewpoint. They protested alongside men holding the flag of Nazi Germany. And now, according to the President, the time is right to loudly acclaim the quality of those people. They are Trump's people. They are the finest people. Believe me.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:24 PM on August 15, 2017 [31 favorites]
Dell's income is from a market where competition is fierce, and many of their competitors will not be seen as enabling Nazism.
IBM.
posted by MattWPBS at 3:26 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
IBM.
posted by MattWPBS at 3:26 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
tfw your boss is defending Nazis on live TV
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:26 PM on August 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:26 PM on August 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
Either he resigns or he's complicit, screw his feelings.
posted by Justinian at 3:29 PM on August 15, 2017 [33 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 3:29 PM on August 15, 2017 [33 favorites]
If Trump is removed from office he'll metamorphose into the full blown aggrieved leader of a resurgent Nazi MAGA party. I still want him gone asap but it's not going to end this nightmare.
This nightmare existed well before Trump became President, so yeah, it's not likely going to end after he leaves office. And he's already the leader of the resurgent Nazi/Confederate (let's not lose sight of them in the "punch Nazis" talk) MAGA party.
The Unite the Right rally was a horrible mess and tragedy that brought the racism and white nationalist impulses of the GOP into the national spotlight in a way it hasn't quite been before. It becomes nearly impossible to argue that the confederate flag is not a symbol of racism if the arm holding it up is decorated with a swastika. Certainly there are some who are trying but they're having to double down into bolder and bolder racist rhetoric. Even Jeff Fucking Sessions has had to speak out against it. If it's only lip service now, forcing them to fake it far enough will make it harder for them to turn back.
And it's also becoming more and more obvious that the government is operating independent of President Trump, the laughable strong man. Wildly unpopular. No coherent agenda. A global embarrassment who's stupidity and incompetence threatens more than his strength and power.
posted by AtoBtoA at 3:30 PM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
This nightmare existed well before Trump became President, so yeah, it's not likely going to end after he leaves office. And he's already the leader of the resurgent Nazi/Confederate (let's not lose sight of them in the "punch Nazis" talk) MAGA party.
The Unite the Right rally was a horrible mess and tragedy that brought the racism and white nationalist impulses of the GOP into the national spotlight in a way it hasn't quite been before. It becomes nearly impossible to argue that the confederate flag is not a symbol of racism if the arm holding it up is decorated with a swastika. Certainly there are some who are trying but they're having to double down into bolder and bolder racist rhetoric. Even Jeff Fucking Sessions has had to speak out against it. If it's only lip service now, forcing them to fake it far enough will make it harder for them to turn back.
And it's also becoming more and more obvious that the government is operating independent of President Trump, the laughable strong man. Wildly unpopular. No coherent agenda. A global embarrassment who's stupidity and incompetence threatens more than his strength and power.
posted by AtoBtoA at 3:30 PM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
If Chief of Staff John Kelly cares about his country he will either secure a rapid invocation of the Twenty-Fifth Amendment, or he will resign and loudly protest this presidency from the many platforms that will be afforded to him. There is no third option.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:31 PM on August 15, 2017 [69 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:31 PM on August 15, 2017 [69 favorites]
Terrible realization about his description of the "very fine people" specifically at the torch procession:
Their chosen dress code was intended to mimic his golf ensemble, and it worked. He saw his young self in that footage, and he prizes the image of himself at his prime greater than anything else. There's no better visual impression that they could have made. They've successfully hacked into his psychology better than the GOP ever could.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:32 PM on August 15, 2017 [105 favorites]
Their chosen dress code was intended to mimic his golf ensemble, and it worked. He saw his young self in that footage, and he prizes the image of himself at his prime greater than anything else. There's no better visual impression that they could have made. They've successfully hacked into his psychology better than the GOP ever could.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:32 PM on August 15, 2017 [105 favorites]
At this point, a hard military coup would be preferable to Trump.
posted by Yowser at 3:33 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 3:33 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
The Vice documentary where they sent a reporter behind-the-scenes to talk to the people involved in the march should dispel any sort of narrative about "both sides are at fault". There are literal quotes in there by the white supremacists talking joyfully about killing people and being glad that somebody died in the car attack.
posted by gucci mane at 3:33 PM on August 15, 2017 [41 favorites]
posted by gucci mane at 3:33 PM on August 15, 2017 [41 favorites]
Dentists office report: CSPAN3. Speaker: Guy who wrote a book on the second big battle at Manassas.
posted by tilde at 3:33 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by tilde at 3:33 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Their chosen dress code was intended to mimic his golf ensemble, and it worked.
Amazing, any links to confirm this?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:34 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Amazing, any links to confirm this?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:34 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Howard Dean on MSNBC, cutting through the bullshit again: "This is someone with no moral compass whatsoever, and he's not the real President."
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:34 PM on August 15, 2017 [79 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:34 PM on August 15, 2017 [79 favorites]
Amazing, any links to confirm this?
compare
posted by thelonius at 3:36 PM on August 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
compare
posted by thelonius at 3:36 PM on August 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
At this point, a hard military coup would be preferable to Trump.
No.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 3:37 PM on August 15, 2017 [24 favorites]
No.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 3:37 PM on August 15, 2017 [24 favorites]
For anyone needing a break from U.S. Politics and all things #Potus45, a new Fucking Fuck 3.0 thread has been created over at MetaTalk. If this needs to be removed by a mod, I understand, but just wanted to offer up that space for anyone who needs it.
posted by Fizz at 3:37 PM on August 15, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by Fizz at 3:37 PM on August 15, 2017 [15 favorites]
Trenchant analysis from political journal Wonkette: Donald Trump Literally Just Defended Charlottesville Nazis Because Fuck It We’re Done Here
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:39 PM on August 15, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:39 PM on August 15, 2017 [22 favorites]
DreamHost is fighting DoJ request for 1.3M IP addresses of visitors to anti-Trump protest site (Natasha Lomas, TechCrunch)
Web hosting service DreamHost is fighting a Department of Justice demand to scoop up all the IP addresses of visitors to an anti-Trump website. The website in question, disruptj20.org, organized participants of political protests against the current U.S. administration.posted by Room 641-A at 3:39 PM on August 15, 2017 [16 favorites]
Blogging about its objections to the warrant yesterday, DreamHost’s general counsel describes it as “a highly untargeted demand that chills free association and the right of free speech afforded by the Constitution”.
DreamHost says it has not been able to see the affidavit pertaining to the warrant as those records are sealed. The search warrant can be found here.
Charles Pierce, two days ago: This Is the Bleakest Moment for America in My Lifetime. Anyone who followed the presidential campaign saw this coming.
I can't remember a bleaker time in this country's history. The most perilous moments of the Cold War were frightening but, by and large, we were all in it together. The Vietnam period was angry and divisive but there was a central focus to all the rage, an ill-conceived and immoral foreign adventure that even its most wrathful opponents knew had to end sometime. But the centrifugal forces seem stronger and more mysterious this time. They seem to be coming from too many different directions and they seem to have a number of obscure and distant sources. Our sense of being a self-governing nation is being pulled apart. Our concept of a political commonwealth is unmoored and floating. Nothing is solid. Everything is fluid, and everything ought not to be. Not like this. Not in the 21st century. We settled some things in the last century that should have been settled for good.Today: Maybe Next Time Stick to the Notes. President* Trump lost his shit so badly he may never get it back.
He was bigot-signaling to his vaunted base that he would have been out there with a tiki torch himself. That's why we got all that talk about the very fine Nazis who were patrolling the park on Saturday night along with the Citronella SS, and who were treated so unfairly by the fake news media when they decided to go for throats.posted by homunculus at 3:40 PM on August 15, 2017 [61 favorites]
And that's what takes Tuesday's explosion beyond the realm of simple mockery. There's an audience out there for every lunatic assertion the president* made. We saw it in full flower last Saturday. And he knows it's there, too. He knows that it's the one segment of the American population still guaranteed to give his fragile-if-monumental ego the constant boost that it needs. So he needed to salve all the fee-fees he wounded the other day when somebody dragged him out so he could say right out loud that being a Nazi is a bad thing. This was an angry, heartfelt appeal to his white nationalist base to stick with him, probably because that base is all he has left.
Daily Beast, Asawin Suebsaeng and Andrew Desiderio, ‘Clean-Up on Aisle Trump’: President Reverses Course on Neo-Nazis, Slams the ‘Alt-Left’
Trump often can serve as his own worst enemy. One White House official conceded to The Daily Beast that the Tuesday’s presser was a continuation of a pattern that the president follows, in which he will “extend the shelf life” of a controversy because he, somehow, cannot help himself from talking about it.posted by zachlipton at 3:40 PM on August 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
The president’s first statement on Charlottesville had evoked howls of protest for the equivocation and failure to denunciate the white supremacists responsible for organizing the rally. He tried his hand at clean up on Monday with remarks at the White House that specifically called out Nazism and the KKK only to undo what little good he’d done roughly 24 hours later at Trump Tower.
“It was the president’s decision to do this,” another White House official told The Daily Beast of Trump’s free-wheeling at the press conference. Asked for a mini-review of Trump’s press conference performance, the official would only respond, “clean-up on aisle Trump.”
He was bigot-signaling to his vaunted base that he would have been out there with a tiki torch himself.
That right there. That's the nut. God-fucking-damn-it.
posted by suelac at 3:44 PM on August 15, 2017 [62 favorites]
That right there. That's the nut. God-fucking-damn-it.
posted by suelac at 3:44 PM on August 15, 2017 [62 favorites]
Oh hey. I'm a DreamHost customer. Always been pleased with their service.
posted by Autumnheart at 3:49 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Autumnheart at 3:49 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
How long do you think it'll be before Trump invites a group of these Very Fine clean-cut, history-studying, heritage-preserving young men to the White House? I'm sure he has openings for some interns. Especially those who praise him and vow loyalty.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:52 PM on August 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:52 PM on August 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
Just woke up from a nap. Did I miss anything?
I was dealing with a family illness this afternoon. My first trip online was to Facebook, where a devoted Trumpwatcher journalist friend had written simply "Holy Fuck." as his status.
I then thought, "Wait, 45 has an event today, doesn't he?" so I came over to the blue:
338 new comments, show
Oh yeah.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:53 PM on August 15, 2017 [33 favorites]
I was dealing with a family illness this afternoon. My first trip online was to Facebook, where a devoted Trumpwatcher journalist friend had written simply "Holy Fuck." as his status.
I then thought, "Wait, 45 has an event today, doesn't he?" so I came over to the blue:
338 new comments, show
Oh yeah.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:53 PM on August 15, 2017 [33 favorites]
cernovich just swore off the alt-right in a youtube live, "i didnt realize the movement was racist" i'm .. blown away..
and praising vox day for vox's "intellectual pursuits" .. i.. i got nothing.
posted by xcasex at 3:59 PM on August 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
and praising vox day for vox's "intellectual pursuits" .. i.. i got nothing.
posted by xcasex at 3:59 PM on August 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
So, we're quite literally, as best I can tell, to the point in The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich where I quit reading because it was too disgusting and depressing and, for the sake of comprehensive admission, dense to use my limited leisure time on.
That's where we are right now folks. My efforts to look for and/or be a helper will be redoubled because I fear dark times are ahead, I hope there's enough of them to get us through.
posted by RolandOfEld at 4:01 PM on August 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
That's where we are right now folks. My efforts to look for and/or be a helper will be redoubled because I fear dark times are ahead, I hope there's enough of them to get us through.
posted by RolandOfEld at 4:01 PM on August 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
If I was a very fine person who wanted to peacefully protest the civic decision to remove a historical statue, and I got to the protest and saw that the people agreeing with me were in a sea of Nazi and Confederate flags, I'd say, maybe I should go home and write an email or something
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:01 PM on August 15, 2017 [72 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:01 PM on August 15, 2017 [72 favorites]
Um, did the bot just glitch or did all three of the Trump kids unfollow Marlee Matlin at the same time after she said there aren't "both sides" to this? I mean, that means someone is behind all three accounts at once.
posted by zachlipton at 4:02 PM on August 15, 2017 [42 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 4:02 PM on August 15, 2017 [42 favorites]
"i didnt realize the movement was racist"
I might have just hysterically cackled for a little too long at that.
posted by cui bono at 4:02 PM on August 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
I might have just hysterically cackled for a little too long at that.
posted by cui bono at 4:02 PM on August 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
cernovich just swore off the alt-right in a youtube live, "i didnt realize the movement was racist" i'm .. blown away..
"...actually it's about ethics in private email servers"
posted by PenDevil at 4:04 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
"...actually it's about ethics in private email servers"
posted by PenDevil at 4:04 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
TFW when you get subtweeted by the Commandant of the Marine Corps.
posted by PenDevil at 4:05 PM on August 15, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 4:05 PM on August 15, 2017 [20 favorites]
A reporter needs to ask Trump if the people who were run over were part of the 'alt-left' that he is condemning. Make the guy show all his cards.
posted by srboisvert at 4:06 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 4:06 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Easier explanation is that Matlin blocked all three of them in succession I guess.
posted by zachlipton at 4:09 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 4:09 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
In Charlottesville, the Local Jewish Community Presses On:
On Saturday morning, I stood outside our synagogue with the armed security guard we hired after the police department refused to provide us with an officer during morning services. (Even the police department’s limited promise of an observer near our building was not kept — and note, we did not ask for protection of our property, only our people as they worshipped).posted by grouse at 4:10 PM on August 15, 2017 [64 favorites]
Forty congregants were inside. Here’s what I witnessed during that time.
For half an hour, three men dressed in fatigues and armed with semi-automatic rifles stood across the street from the temple. Had they tried to enter, I don’t know what I could have done to stop them, but I couldn’t take my eyes off them, either. Perhaps the presence of our armed guard deterred them. Perhaps their presence was just a coincidence, and I’m paranoid. I don’t know.
Several times, parades of Nazis passed our building, shouting, “There's the synagogue!” followed by chants of “Seig Heil” and other anti-Semitic language. Some carried flags with swastikas and other Nazi symbols…
Soon, we learned that Nazi websites had posted a call to burn our synagogue.
Whoa whoa whoa, wait a minute here. I just have one question:
Isn't Klansman-in-Chief supposed to be on vacation???
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 4:16 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Isn't Klansman-in-Chief supposed to be on vacation???
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 4:16 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Greetings from vacation 2017. Glad you're not here.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:18 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 4:18 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
I have been a Dreamhost customer for about 14 years now, and happy apart from a couple of bungled (but ultimately forgivable) tech support snafus. It warms my heart to see them fighting that government overreach.
posted by Hot Pastrami! at 4:26 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Hot Pastrami! at 4:26 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
Trump is the head on a huge festering boil. And it's popping.
posted by srboisvert at 4:27 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 4:27 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Do we not explain this stuff to people in grade school or something? I thought we did.
The purpose of a march by, for instance, Nazis or the KKK, is to say to black people, to Jewish people, to gay people, and to anybody else they don't like: "Don't imagine that you are safe. We will cover our faces, and we will come for you at night."
The people marching under those banners have taken them up because their meaning is clearly understood without a lot of additional exposition. They have taken them up because lifting those banners amounts to a mortal threat, a reminder to the rest of us to live in fear.
There is no such thing as a peaceful gathering of Nazis.
"Well, we're not that kind of Nazi, we're the kind that just wants white people to feel good about themselves." Is that so. Well, then you should have called yourselves the White People Feel Good About Themselves Glee Club And Fucking Moose Lodge, because that's not what "Nazis" means.
To try and sell yourself as The Peaceful Nazis Who Everybody Is Picking On For Some Reason is such concentrated horseshit that I'm surprised even Nazis can stand the smell of it as it comes out of their mouths.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 4:40 PM on August 15, 2017 [134 favorites]
The purpose of a march by, for instance, Nazis or the KKK, is to say to black people, to Jewish people, to gay people, and to anybody else they don't like: "Don't imagine that you are safe. We will cover our faces, and we will come for you at night."
The people marching under those banners have taken them up because their meaning is clearly understood without a lot of additional exposition. They have taken them up because lifting those banners amounts to a mortal threat, a reminder to the rest of us to live in fear.
There is no such thing as a peaceful gathering of Nazis.
"Well, we're not that kind of Nazi, we're the kind that just wants white people to feel good about themselves." Is that so. Well, then you should have called yourselves the White People Feel Good About Themselves Glee Club And Fucking Moose Lodge, because that's not what "Nazis" means.
To try and sell yourself as The Peaceful Nazis Who Everybody Is Picking On For Some Reason is such concentrated horseshit that I'm surprised even Nazis can stand the smell of it as it comes out of their mouths.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 4:40 PM on August 15, 2017 [134 favorites]
Others have noticed that the Deplorable children have all unfollowed Marlee Matlin.
Does... does Ivanka not realize she's Jewish? Does she have ANY IDEA what I heard the Nazis say SPECIFICALLY ABOUT HER on their livestreams?
posted by Yowser at 4:40 PM on August 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
Does... does Ivanka not realize she's Jewish? Does she have ANY IDEA what I heard the Nazis say SPECIFICALLY ABOUT HER on their livestreams?
posted by Yowser at 4:40 PM on August 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
From Kyle Cheney and Rachael Bede at Politico:
posted by yasaman at 4:42 PM on August 15, 2017 [22 favorites]
Days after neo-Nazis and white nationalists led a deadly march through Charlottesville — and are beginning to organize again — Republican leaders in Congress appear to be in no hurry to tackle the issue beyond statements of condemnation.No surprise, obviously, but all the Republicans' words are empty and meaningless. They'll never back their condemnations up with action.
Many GOP lawmakers called Saturday’s march and the killing of a 32-year-old woman an act of “domestic terrorism.” And dozens of members took issue Tuesday with President Donald Trump's claim that "both sides" were to blame for violence.
But there was little urgency for congressional action among committee leaders and top GOP brass.
Despite House Democrats' calls for hearings on the rise of white supremacy, the House Judiciary Committee, which oversees the Department of Justice’s handling of domestic terrorism, has no immediate plans to schedule one, aides say. The House Homeland Security Committee is lumping the issue into an annual “global threats” hearing scheduled sometime in September. And while Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) has suggested hearings in the Senate, Judiciary Committee Chairman Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) has no plans to call for one focused on the events in Charlottesville.
GOP leaders, meanwhile, aren’t leaning on their allies to hold public sessions or launch inquiries. Speaker Paul Ryan’s office deferred questions on potential congressional action to Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy and would not say whether the speaker believes action is warranted. McCarthy has been out of the country but intends to discuss the matter with panel chairmen. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell’s office indicated that it’s up to individual committee chairs to set their own hearing schedule.
posted by yasaman at 4:42 PM on August 15, 2017 [22 favorites]
Senator Tillis, Paul Ryan and several other GOP leaders are all condemning White Nationalism without naming Trump. I just this morning wrote a stack of postcards calling for the ouster of the White Supremacists in the WH but I didn't think to name Trump as one of them, my bad. I'll just have to write a whole batch more.
There were so many, many terrible moments during this latest press conference but the part where he praised Heather Heyer's mom for writing him "the nicest letter" and "thanked me." At such a time as this-- when a woman has lost her daughter to Nazi scum by being run down in the streets, DJT views the whole incident as how he might be praised. It is so gross the gorge in my throat is rising even as I type this.
Also I would love to know what his staffers are thinking as they try to distance themselves from this disaster. Do they really seek comfort from us? "Please don't hate me because my boss is a racist dick?" I don't get what they are aiming for.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:45 PM on August 15, 2017 [16 favorites]
There were so many, many terrible moments during this latest press conference but the part where he praised Heather Heyer's mom for writing him "the nicest letter" and "thanked me." At such a time as this-- when a woman has lost her daughter to Nazi scum by being run down in the streets, DJT views the whole incident as how he might be praised. It is so gross the gorge in my throat is rising even as I type this.
Also I would love to know what his staffers are thinking as they try to distance themselves from this disaster. Do they really seek comfort from us? "Please don't hate me because my boss is a racist dick?" I don't get what they are aiming for.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:45 PM on August 15, 2017 [16 favorites]
Holy shit this woman is brave.
Univision Nightly Newscast anchor Ilia Calderón endured racial slurs while trying to interview a KKK leader in North Carolina.
“To me you are a n*gg*r. That’s it,” said Chris Baker of the Loyal White Knights, a KKK chapter in Yanceyville, NC.
She went into the woods and witnessed a cross burning and interviewed them.
posted by emjaybee at 4:48 PM on August 15, 2017 [71 favorites]
Univision Nightly Newscast anchor Ilia Calderón endured racial slurs while trying to interview a KKK leader in North Carolina.
“To me you are a n*gg*r. That’s it,” said Chris Baker of the Loyal White Knights, a KKK chapter in Yanceyville, NC.
She went into the woods and witnessed a cross burning and interviewed them.
posted by emjaybee at 4:48 PM on August 15, 2017 [71 favorites]
Wes Bellamy was just on CNN and is tearing apart a trump apologist (TA). Trump apologist was arguing that the counter protesters were there with bats/guns and were thugs, why would Wes Bellamy excuse that behavior, etc, and eventually circled around to saying
TA: Well, you yourself used to be an "activist" right? You said yourself you "hated white people"? Can't you see yourself having made a mistake like pointing a gun at someone?
WB: Yes, I was an activist, and let me tell you the difference between you an me. I have the graciousness to admit when I've made mistakes. I have worked to be better. I accept ACCOUNTABILITY. You are not looking for the alt-right to have accountability for showing up with AK47s, for trying to send their message of intimidation to specific people. The way you are talking right now is intended to give them an out, and that is the problem. The lack of accountability.
posted by skrozidile at 4:49 PM on August 15, 2017 [52 favorites]
TA: Well, you yourself used to be an "activist" right? You said yourself you "hated white people"? Can't you see yourself having made a mistake like pointing a gun at someone?
WB: Yes, I was an activist, and let me tell you the difference between you an me. I have the graciousness to admit when I've made mistakes. I have worked to be better. I accept ACCOUNTABILITY. You are not looking for the alt-right to have accountability for showing up with AK47s, for trying to send their message of intimidation to specific people. The way you are talking right now is intended to give them an out, and that is the problem. The lack of accountability.
posted by skrozidile at 4:49 PM on August 15, 2017 [52 favorites]
That's exactly the part that got me too, skrozidile, and showed how a real man (or woman) acts and accepts responsibility. The contrast with Trump and the Republican lackey on CNN Was stunning.
posted by Justinian at 4:53 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 4:53 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Once his grift runs out
Another instructive example might be Bernie Madoff. Madoff went to prison because it was the safest place for him to go; he had literally run the world out of safe places to flee by ripping off literally EVERYBODY. It's very obvious Trump is doing business with shady Russian mobsters because they are the only people left who will lend him money. And of course they know he can't pay them back; unlike with Madoff they expect a quid pro quo, which Trump himself may only vaguely understand or care about. But after events like today's, Trump's usefulness diminishes like the evil neighbor boy in Angie Baby. So the question is at what point everyone gets fed up and the knives come out, and as Trump has very appropriately decorated his life in Early Caesar he will utter that last line, "et tu Mooch?"
posted by Bringer Tom at 4:54 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
Another instructive example might be Bernie Madoff. Madoff went to prison because it was the safest place for him to go; he had literally run the world out of safe places to flee by ripping off literally EVERYBODY. It's very obvious Trump is doing business with shady Russian mobsters because they are the only people left who will lend him money. And of course they know he can't pay them back; unlike with Madoff they expect a quid pro quo, which Trump himself may only vaguely understand or care about. But after events like today's, Trump's usefulness diminishes like the evil neighbor boy in Angie Baby. So the question is at what point everyone gets fed up and the knives come out, and as Trump has very appropriately decorated his life in Early Caesar he will utter that last line, "et tu Mooch?"
posted by Bringer Tom at 4:54 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
In the unions' defense, shit has been happening really fast, and mostly over a weekend.
Unions on the whole are pretty democratic, and there's a lot of consultation that has to be made. A planned action may be obvious to everyone in that union, but there's still a process that needs to be gone through before making that decision. That may be less true of a company's CEO and board.
posted by Capt. Renault at 4:56 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
Unions on the whole are pretty democratic, and there's a lot of consultation that has to be made. A planned action may be obvious to everyone in that union, but there's still a process that needs to be gone through before making that decision. That may be less true of a company's CEO and board.
posted by Capt. Renault at 4:56 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
I'm just so fucking sick of seeing things come to pass that I know we were explicitly warned about, by HRC in Reno most of all, but even at the White House goddamn correspondents dinner, by Hasan Minhaj.
posted by Cold Lurkey at 5:06 PM on August 15, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by Cold Lurkey at 5:06 PM on August 15, 2017 [21 favorites]
During Bush II it was the Daily Show & the Colbert Report that helped keep me (somewhat) sane/able to persevere, being able to see that other people were aware of what was going on and speaking out. These potus45 threads are turning into the equivalent for this grotesque Trump shitshow and I want to thank you. This is some real dark shit.
posted by Golem XIV at 5:06 PM on August 15, 2017 [38 favorites]
posted by Golem XIV at 5:06 PM on August 15, 2017 [38 favorites]
He never backs down. He constitutionally is unable. He only gets worse. This will only get worse.
posted by chris24 at 5:07 PM on August 15, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 5:07 PM on August 15, 2017 [28 favorites]
I don't know that there actually is a best outcome for the AL primaries? Roy Moore is perhaps the worst person on the planet, so his getting the Republican nomination would be the worst outcome. There will probably be a Republican runoff. No matter who eventually wins, he will be terrible.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:08 PM on August 15, 2017
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:08 PM on August 15, 2017
Secret Life of Gravy:
Has anyone seen proof that she said these things? More likely, has anyone seen a condemnation from the mother saying that didn't happen at all?
I don't remember exactly in the transcript where that it is, but I want to say at least one of the times it is in response to a reporter asking if he has reached out to the mother to offer condolences. His reply is.... subhuman. Follow-up questions about when he will reach out are completely ignored.
Not that there aren't a ton of questions that should just be asked over and over until he finally answers one, but "that mom that wrote you the nicest letter and thanked you.... Have you said thank you for the words from her? And, oh, by the way, sorry about your daughter?"
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 5:10 PM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
There were so many, many terrible moments during this latest press conference but the part where he praised Heather Heyer's mom for writing him "the nicest letter" and "thanked me." At such a time as this-- when a woman has lost her daughter to Nazi scum by being run down in the streets, DJT views the whole incident as how he might be praised. It is so gross the gorge in my throat is rising even as I type this.Yeah, and without going back through the transcript (once was more than enough), it seemed like he implied that whole "mom reached out to thank me" a couple of other times.
Has anyone seen proof that she said these things? More likely, has anyone seen a condemnation from the mother saying that didn't happen at all?
I don't remember exactly in the transcript where that it is, but I want to say at least one of the times it is in response to a reporter asking if he has reached out to the mother to offer condolences. His reply is.... subhuman. Follow-up questions about when he will reach out are completely ignored.
Not that there aren't a ton of questions that should just be asked over and over until he finally answers one, but "that mom that wrote you the nicest letter and thanked you.... Have you said thank you for the words from her? And, oh, by the way, sorry about your daughter?"
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 5:10 PM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
The AFL-CIO is not going to have the communications/advisory infrastructure that a world-bending American Corporation has, so stuff is going to happen a bit more slowly. Nevertheless, I'd guess that they waited for one or two more exits before jumping so they wouldn't be targeted as "always anti-Trump anyway so who cares."
There's also the problem that Trump almost equaled Reagan's numbers among Union households (although Clinton still carried).
posted by notyou at 5:10 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
There's also the problem that Trump almost equaled Reagan's numbers among Union households (although Clinton still carried).
posted by notyou at 5:10 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
It truly is amazing. Every week he's able to outdo himself.
You know, von Rundstedt and the Germans were just peacefully assembled in Normandy, and I'm sure they had permits to be there as well. But Eisenhower and the rest of the Allies just showed up, looking for a fight, and there was a lot of destruction. Violence on both sides! There wouldn't have been any trouble if the Allies had just stayed away and left the nice Nazis alone.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 5:12 PM on August 15, 2017 [19 favorites]
You know, von Rundstedt and the Germans were just peacefully assembled in Normandy, and I'm sure they had permits to be there as well. But Eisenhower and the rest of the Allies just showed up, looking for a fight, and there was a lot of destruction. Violence on both sides! There wouldn't have been any trouble if the Allies had just stayed away and left the nice Nazis alone.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 5:12 PM on August 15, 2017 [19 favorites]
There's also the problem that Trump almost equaled Reagan's numbers among Union households (although Clinton still carried).
I come from a union family (my dad rose the ranks of the AFL-CIO before leaving for greener pastures, mostly out of disgust with how pro-business, calcified and top-down that org had become) and when I worked the phone banks for Democrat candidates, something like half the people I spoke to were like "you're only calling cuz I'm in the union, well don't waste our time, I'm voting Republican". Which was like, alright, you go ahead and vote for the people working to dismantle everything labor created.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 5:15 PM on August 15, 2017 [27 favorites]
I come from a union family (my dad rose the ranks of the AFL-CIO before leaving for greener pastures, mostly out of disgust with how pro-business, calcified and top-down that org had become) and when I worked the phone banks for Democrat candidates, something like half the people I spoke to were like "you're only calling cuz I'm in the union, well don't waste our time, I'm voting Republican". Which was like, alright, you go ahead and vote for the people working to dismantle everything labor created.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 5:15 PM on August 15, 2017 [27 favorites]
No surprise, obviously, but all the Republicans' words are empty and meaningless. They'll never back their condemnations up with action.
They all need a less overt form of white supremacy to stay in power through voter suppression. They're only making these statements under pressure, they will do nothing further.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:18 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
They all need a less overt form of white supremacy to stay in power through voter suppression. They're only making these statements under pressure, they will do nothing further.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:18 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Never mind. I found where she thanks Trump. I should have Googled first. He's still reading way too much into that quote than he should.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 5:18 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 5:18 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
Charlottesville winery Trump boasted about owning claims no affiliation
A Charlottesville, Va., winery that President Trump boasted about owning Tuesday says they have no affiliation with him.posted by Room 641-A at 5:18 PM on August 15, 2017 [30 favorites]
* TWIST! *
"Trump Winery is a registered trade name of Eric Trump Wine Manufacturing LLC, which is not owned, managed or affiliated with Donald J. Trump, The Trump Organization or any of their affiliates,” the disclaimer reads.
Donald Trump bought the winery in 2011, eventually handing control to his son.
A serious question: what repercussions do you think may occur from these past few days and specifically that news conference? Will this be dropped? Impeachment? Other thoughts?
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 5:20 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 5:20 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
All of the Republicans will condemn Trump's news conference and then nothing will happen.
posted by mmoncur at 5:22 PM on August 15, 2017 [50 favorites]
posted by mmoncur at 5:22 PM on August 15, 2017 [50 favorites]
Most of them won't even condemn Trump's news conference. The GOP leadership has largely stuck to statements that condemn white supremacists without mentioning Trump's name or acknowledging what he said.
posted by zachlipton at 5:24 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 5:24 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
Friend on Facebook.
"Wow, the President of the United States just said that people who oppose Nazis are just as bad as the Nazis themselves...'
And you could make a good argument he said they were worse than the Nazis.
posted by chris24 at 5:25 PM on August 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
"Wow, the President of the United States just said that people who oppose Nazis are just as bad as the Nazis themselves...'
And you could make a good argument he said they were worse than the Nazis.
posted by chris24 at 5:25 PM on August 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
Federal court finds Texas maps discriminate against minorities (The Hill)
posted by Barack Spinoza at 5:26 PM on August 15, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by Barack Spinoza at 5:26 PM on August 15, 2017 [27 favorites]
Van Jones was on the verge of tears on AC. It's really upsetting that someone has to feel like that.
posted by Talez at 5:26 PM on August 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Talez at 5:26 PM on August 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
Has anyone seen proof that she said these things?
There's still basically just the first story where she does dutifully, it would seem, thank him for his weaksauce, mealy-mouthed words. This story [The Hill] is still only about 30 hours old, so it doesn't seem like there's been a lot of normal-times news cycle to process any of this as far as tit-for-tat denials or responses. The Hill has also just confirmed his statement that he himself has not reached out directly to the family. What's really bonkers about his word salad is that he acts like it's all about him when a young woman is dead.
This must be an agonizing decision for Michael Dell!
The Damned, Visconti's roman a clef about the Nazi-enmeshed Krupp steel family's complicitness, may be something that all the remaining advisory council members should be exposed to. It's also one of the few filmic depictions of Nazis killing other Nazis -- the Night of the Long Knives, where the SA was wiped out -- if that sort of thing is your jam. The scenes were so bloody they were excised from most early releases of the film (put it this way: the incest scenes were left in). In contemporary terms it may be a little beyond the pale in its othering of homoeroticism, be warned.
posted by dhartung at 5:27 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
There's still basically just the first story where she does dutifully, it would seem, thank him for his weaksauce, mealy-mouthed words. This story [The Hill] is still only about 30 hours old, so it doesn't seem like there's been a lot of normal-times news cycle to process any of this as far as tit-for-tat denials or responses. The Hill has also just confirmed his statement that he himself has not reached out directly to the family. What's really bonkers about his word salad is that he acts like it's all about him when a young woman is dead.
This must be an agonizing decision for Michael Dell!
The Damned, Visconti's roman a clef about the Nazi-enmeshed Krupp steel family's complicitness, may be something that all the remaining advisory council members should be exposed to. It's also one of the few filmic depictions of Nazis killing other Nazis -- the Night of the Long Knives, where the SA was wiped out -- if that sort of thing is your jam. The scenes were so bloody they were excised from most early releases of the film (put it this way: the incest scenes were left in). In contemporary terms it may be a little beyond the pale in its othering of homoeroticism, be warned.
posted by dhartung at 5:27 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Nothing. No repercussions. Zero. Republicans will say some mildly, vaguely condemnatory things in the hopes that they can ride out this latest horror news cycle and that's it. Like, come on. We have asked this at every single SURELY THIS moment, and every. single. time. the answer has been the same thing. Why are we still waiting for the SURELY THIS moment for the GOP? It will never, ever come, not for any reasons related to human decency or actual morals anyway. They're all Nazis by omission if not commission at this point, I don't fucking care what mealy-mouthed vague statements they put out on Twitter.
It's on us to make repercussions manifest, with our bodies and our votes and our voices.
posted by yasaman at 5:29 PM on August 15, 2017 [34 favorites]
It's on us to make repercussions manifest, with our bodies and our votes and our voices.
posted by yasaman at 5:29 PM on August 15, 2017 [34 favorites]
Trump goes off script, and white supremacists cheer (Politico)
Trump's Tuesday attacks on counter-protesters and defense of Confederate monuments gave white supremacists renewed energy.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 5:29 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trump's Tuesday attacks on counter-protesters and defense of Confederate monuments gave white supremacists renewed energy.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 5:29 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Donnie wasted what little political capital with the travel ban rollout and the health care punt. He's losing his moral capital now (far too late I know, we've all been making predictions I know) and the executive branch is ceasing to function. I'd say the odds are: 60% resignation, perhaps soon. 20% impeachment begins (double your money for followed by resignation), 10% 25th amendment (superdrama!) 10% dies in office.
posted by vrakatar at 5:30 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by vrakatar at 5:30 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
A serious question: what repercussions do you think may occur from these past few days and specifically that news conference? Will this be dropped? Impeachment? Other thoughts?
Concerns. Serious concerns. Tremendous concerns.
Specifically, concerns that this might get in the way of massive tax cuts.
posted by delfin at 5:31 PM on August 15, 2017 [19 favorites]
Concerns. Serious concerns. Tremendous concerns.
Specifically, concerns that this might get in the way of massive tax cuts.
posted by delfin at 5:31 PM on August 15, 2017 [19 favorites]
I am hoping against hope for Trump's repeated "I'm not finished" during the press conference to quickly become deeply ironic.
posted by ckape at 5:37 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by ckape at 5:37 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
Gwen Moore (D-Milwaukee) says Trump is unfit for office, calls for fellow lawmakers to remove him so we can move past "this dark period" in our history,
posted by dhartung at 5:38 PM on August 15, 2017 [55 favorites]
posted by dhartung at 5:38 PM on August 15, 2017 [55 favorites]
So...Infrastructure Week everyone! Maybe someone could tell Trump its supposed to be about filling holes, not digging them?
posted by nubs at 5:39 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by nubs at 5:39 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
The new RNC spokeswoman:
@kayleighmcenany
President @realDonaldTrump once again denounced hate today. The GOP stands behind his message of love and inclusiveness!
posted by chris24 at 5:43 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
@kayleighmcenany
President @realDonaldTrump once again denounced hate today. The GOP stands behind his message of love and inclusiveness!
posted by chris24 at 5:43 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
@kayleighmcenany
President @realDonaldTrump once again denounced hate today. The GOP stands behind his message of love and inclusiveness!
The vertical, single letter at a time, reply (or whatever it's called in Twitter speak), of E-A-T-S-H-I-T really ties the room together.
posted by RolandOfEld at 5:46 PM on August 15, 2017 [18 favorites]
President @realDonaldTrump once again denounced hate today. The GOP stands behind his message of love and inclusiveness!
The vertical, single letter at a time, reply (or whatever it's called in Twitter speak), of E-A-T-S-H-I-T really ties the room together.
posted by RolandOfEld at 5:46 PM on August 15, 2017 [18 favorites]
Seriously unless the people in the streets stand silently and allow the Nazis to beat the shit out of them and kill them there will be calls of "both sides." This is why I wanted documented stories of abuse at the hands of the Nazis, they need to be published and they need to be broadcast until people get it into their fat heads that the Nazis are beating the shit out of people and killing them.
"The Nazis had a permit" should be the last thing that this President ever gets to say.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:48 PM on August 15, 2017 [52 favorites]
"The Nazis had a permit" should be the last thing that this President ever gets to say.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:48 PM on August 15, 2017 [52 favorites]
Here are the WH talking points on We Luv Nazis week.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:50 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:50 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
*This* is literally Fox now: Confederates weren't really that bad. It was legal and besides, all these other people owned slaves.
posted by chris24 at 5:51 PM on August 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 5:51 PM on August 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
The White House Evening Communications Briefing.
When doubling down isn't good enough you have to triple-down by putting "HELL FUCKING YEAH I'M DEFENDING THE NAZIS!" in writing.
posted by Talez at 5:51 PM on August 15, 2017 [18 favorites]
When doubling down isn't good enough you have to triple-down by putting "HELL FUCKING YEAH I'M DEFENDING THE NAZIS!" in writing.
posted by Talez at 5:51 PM on August 15, 2017 [18 favorites]
I still hope 45 rots in office juuuuuust long enough to dig up the roots connecting him and his relatives to the Russian mafia & oligarchy. I hope the booger they pull out is so long and ugly that half the Republican party and all their enablers get pulled out with it, especially Pence and the Kochs, and I hope the results of what they find so horrify the Russian public that it triggers their civic immune system and inspires them to purge their system of rot.
I can dream.
posted by saysthis at 5:53 PM on August 15, 2017 [37 favorites]
I can dream.
posted by saysthis at 5:53 PM on August 15, 2017 [37 favorites]
*This* is literally Fox now: Confederates weren't really that bad. It was legal and besides, all these other people owned slaves.
Defenders of slavery argued that slavery had existed throughout history and was the natural state of mankind. The Greeks had slaves, the Romans had slaves, and the English had slavery until very recently.posted by theodolite at 5:56 PM on August 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
Defenders of slavery noted that in the Bible, Abraham had slaves. They point to the Ten Commandments, noting that "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, ... nor his manservant, nor his maidservant." In the New Testament, Paul returned a runaway slave, Philemon, to his master, and, although slavery was widespread throughout the Roman world, Jesus never spoke out against it.
From National Treasure John Dingell, who enlisted to fight Nazis in 1944.
@JohnDingell
If you refuse to denounce these animals, you stand with them. If your elected officials won't call this what it is, they are unfit to serve.
posted by chris24 at 5:56 PM on August 15, 2017 [89 favorites]
@JohnDingell
If you refuse to denounce these animals, you stand with them. If your elected officials won't call this what it is, they are unfit to serve.
posted by chris24 at 5:56 PM on August 15, 2017 [89 favorites]
JFC are we going to repeal the 13th amendment next? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
posted by Talez at 5:58 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Talez at 5:58 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
"She said the nicest things about me."
“Thank you, President Trump, for those words of comfort and for denouncing those who promote violence and hatred,”
His bar is really low.
posted by greermahoney at 6:00 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
“Thank you, President Trump, for those words of comfort and for denouncing those who promote violence and hatred,”
His bar is really low.
posted by greermahoney at 6:00 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
I do wish that the protesters who show up at these nazi events would just repeatedly sing Amazing Grace while unarmed. It is what I plan to do if the nazis come to my town. I imagine footage of nazis shouting down or spitting on those singing would be fairly powerful.
posted by flarbuse at 6:01 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by flarbuse at 6:01 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm thinking your suggestion is sarcastic? But did you see all the Cville clergy standing together to block the Nazis from marching into the park? It was a impressive.
posted by puddledork at 6:04 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by puddledork at 6:04 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
All part of the Official Celebration of Slavery Day in the middle of We Luv Nazis Week. The white House has a very busy schedule.
I do wish that the protesters who show up at these nazi events would just repeatedly sing Amazing Grace while unarmed. It is what I plan to do if the nazis come to my town. I imagine footage of nazis shouting down or spitting on those singing would be fairly powerful.
From what I've heard there were church members out in the streets with locked arms but I believe they were singing "This Little Light of Mine." The Nazis came for them and the antifa put themselves in between to shield the church people.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:05 PM on August 15, 2017 [30 favorites]
I do wish that the protesters who show up at these nazi events would just repeatedly sing Amazing Grace while unarmed. It is what I plan to do if the nazis come to my town. I imagine footage of nazis shouting down or spitting on those singing would be fairly powerful.
From what I've heard there were church members out in the streets with locked arms but I believe they were singing "This Little Light of Mine." The Nazis came for them and the antifa put themselves in between to shield the church people.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:05 PM on August 15, 2017 [30 favorites]
JFC are we going to repeal the 13th amendment next? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
They're starting with the 15th.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:05 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
They're starting with the 15th.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:05 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
I do wish that the protesters who show up at these nazi events would just repeatedly sing Amazing Grace while unarmed. It is what I plan to do if the nazis come to my town. I imagine footage of nazis shouting down or spitting on those singing would be fairly powerful.
We could literally stand there and let them beat us to death and our corpses would still be called thugs and vandals and extremists and haters. Look at the shit these horrible people said about the Women's March, where nobody raised a hand and nobody got hurt.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:07 PM on August 15, 2017 [101 favorites]
We could literally stand there and let them beat us to death and our corpses would still be called thugs and vandals and extremists and haters. Look at the shit these horrible people said about the Women's March, where nobody raised a hand and nobody got hurt.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:07 PM on August 15, 2017 [101 favorites]
It's only Tuesday of White Supremacy week
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:08 PM on August 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:08 PM on August 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
Mitt Romney: 'No, not the same. One side is racist, bigoted, Nazi. The other opposes racism and bigotry. Morally different universes.'
Hey mitt have you thought about some nazi punching? join us
posted by dis_integration at 6:10 PM on August 15, 2017 [15 favorites]
Hey mitt have you thought about some nazi punching? join us
posted by dis_integration at 6:10 PM on August 15, 2017 [15 favorites]
Fox News, Daily Caller delete posts encouraging people to drive through protests
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:11 PM on August 15, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:11 PM on August 15, 2017 [34 favorites]
Trump's incredible shrinking manufacturing council, in one chart
I'm just going to leave this here: Johnson & Johnson's Facebook Page
posted by grouse at 6:14 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm just going to leave this here: Johnson & Johnson's Facebook Page
posted by grouse at 6:14 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
The Nazis came for them and the antifa put themselves in between to shield the church people.
Part of the reason a lot of the news footage is of scuffles is that the news people typically put themselves where the most "drama" and "action" is, which is where opposing groups meet. And the scuffling at the front does help insulate the non-scuffling people farther back as much as anything can.
Except when roving groups of violent assholes surround an African American man in a parking garage and beat him with sticks. Or when another herd of Nazis heads for an apartment building where people of various races live and do home invasions -- which is where Heather Heyer's group of protesters was walking away from after protecting the residents from those attacks.
But the mainstream media mostly doesn't get footage of that unless they buy it off bloggers and livestreamers since they're up front covering the scuffles, or following white supremacist blowhards to another park to make sure their abhorrent speeches get lots of airplay.
I'm a pudgy arthritic old lady, and if the nazis want to try and overrun my town, Antifa are 500% welcome to stand with and in front of me and scuffle all they want in my defense, thank you very much, and then when the nazis get to me, I will fucking fight them as hard as I can in my shitty feeble way to protect the people behind me.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:19 PM on August 15, 2017 [111 favorites]
Part of the reason a lot of the news footage is of scuffles is that the news people typically put themselves where the most "drama" and "action" is, which is where opposing groups meet. And the scuffling at the front does help insulate the non-scuffling people farther back as much as anything can.
Except when roving groups of violent assholes surround an African American man in a parking garage and beat him with sticks. Or when another herd of Nazis heads for an apartment building where people of various races live and do home invasions -- which is where Heather Heyer's group of protesters was walking away from after protecting the residents from those attacks.
But the mainstream media mostly doesn't get footage of that unless they buy it off bloggers and livestreamers since they're up front covering the scuffles, or following white supremacist blowhards to another park to make sure their abhorrent speeches get lots of airplay.
I'm a pudgy arthritic old lady, and if the nazis want to try and overrun my town, Antifa are 500% welcome to stand with and in front of me and scuffle all they want in my defense, thank you very much, and then when the nazis get to me, I will fucking fight them as hard as I can in my shitty feeble way to protect the people behind me.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:19 PM on August 15, 2017 [111 favorites]
Hey mitt have you thought about some nazi punching? join us
It would be a good look, Mitt. Really accentuate that kinda Bruce Campbell thing you got going on... think about it, Mitt.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:21 PM on August 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
It would be a good look, Mitt. Really accentuate that kinda Bruce Campbell thing you got going on... think about it, Mitt.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:21 PM on August 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
Nazi-Punching Tips:
Guys, don't punch a nazi.
Punch THROUGH a nazi. Follow-through is critical to power *and* good aim on a knockout punch.
posted by emjaybee at 6:25 PM on August 15, 2017 [42 favorites]
Guys, don't punch a nazi.
Punch THROUGH a nazi. Follow-through is critical to power *and* good aim on a knockout punch.
posted by emjaybee at 6:25 PM on August 15, 2017 [42 favorites]
Dear white americans: Now is the time. Go break some shit. Light cars on fire. If this has no reaction from the general populace, when the fascist shits make their next big bet, it will be too late. It works. And even if it doesn't, it sends the message that you won't roll over, that there's a limit. This is a limit if i've ever seen one.
posted by _Synesthesia_ at 6:25 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by _Synesthesia_ at 6:25 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Roy Moore is leading the AL-Sen primary returns but doesn't look like a threat to hit the 50% threshold to avoid a September runoff. Dem. Doug Jones is dominating. If it's Moore-Jones, national Democrats may look at actually spending money in the December 12 special election, because Roy Moore is an insane person.
But I don't see how Roy Moore isn't destined to be the Senator from Alabama replacing Jeff Sessions. Maybe the only person more insane and racist than Jeff Sessions in Alabama, there's no possible way he doesn't win. It's fucking Alabama.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:26 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
But I don't see how Roy Moore isn't destined to be the Senator from Alabama replacing Jeff Sessions. Maybe the only person more insane and racist than Jeff Sessions in Alabama, there's no possible way he doesn't win. It's fucking Alabama.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:26 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
I think if it's a Roy Moore/ Luther Strange runoff, the national Republican party throws everything they have behind Strange, because Moore would not play well in the rest of the country. But sadly, Moore seems to be getting a lot of mileage out of the whole truth-telling-Evangelical-who-scares-the-Establishment thing, so he may end up winning anyway. It's pretty much a lock that whoever wins the Republican nomination will win the seat, although obviously we should still fight it.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:30 PM on August 15, 2017
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:30 PM on August 15, 2017
A serious question: what repercussions do you think may occur from these past few days and specifically that news conference?
the republicans have a choice - reject trump or watch the american people divide, perhaps irrevocably
posted by pyramid termite at 6:32 PM on August 15, 2017
the republicans have a choice - reject trump or watch the american people divide, perhaps irrevocably
posted by pyramid termite at 6:32 PM on August 15, 2017
"Take it down."
A great graphic.
This is the same artist who did those great Der Spiegel covers and the famous Time cover. He is himself an immigrant.
posted by triggerfinger at 6:32 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
A great graphic.
This is the same artist who did those great Der Spiegel covers and the famous Time cover. He is himself an immigrant.
posted by triggerfinger at 6:32 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
NYPost: "The ad promoting Unite the Right rally, which ran on far-right websites all week, did not even mention the statue"
posted by chris24 at 6:33 PM on August 15, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 6:33 PM on August 15, 2017 [32 favorites]
Dear white americans: Now's the time. Go break some shit. Light cars on fire.
I'm kind of against making it harder on your own community members, who are struggling to survive right now. I mean, if you wanna eff up Trump Tower, I ain't gonna cry. But random people's property? Nah.
posted by greermahoney at 6:33 PM on August 15, 2017 [24 favorites]
I'm kind of against making it harder on your own community members, who are struggling to survive right now. I mean, if you wanna eff up Trump Tower, I ain't gonna cry. But random people's property? Nah.
posted by greermahoney at 6:33 PM on August 15, 2017 [24 favorites]
NYTimes: Staff "never expected to hear such a voluble articulation of opinions that POTUS had long expressed in private"
---
But they kept enabling him despite knowing who he was.
posted by chris24 at 6:35 PM on August 15, 2017 [87 favorites]
---
But they kept enabling him despite knowing who he was.
posted by chris24 at 6:35 PM on August 15, 2017 [87 favorites]
Holy shit NYT. You'll be lucky if your building isn't burned to the ground by morning after an admission like that.
posted by Yowser at 6:38 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 6:38 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
From the same article:
posted by zachlipton at 6:39 PM on August 15, 2017 [33 favorites]
But his unifying tone, which his staff characterized as more traditionally presidential, quickly gave way to a more familiar Trump approach. No sooner had he delivered the Monday statement than he began railing privately to his staff about the press. He fumed to aides about how unfairly he was being treated, and expressed sympathy with nonviolent protesters who he said were defending their “heritage,” according to a West Wing official.Funny how firing Priebus doesn't seem to have stopped the leaks one bit. Not funny: the President runs around talking like this to his staff.
He felt he had already given too much ground to his opponents, the official said.
posted by zachlipton at 6:39 PM on August 15, 2017 [33 favorites]
No word in the Trump lexicon is as tread-worn as “unprecedented.” But members of the president’s staff, stunned and disheartened, said they never expected to hear such a voluble articulation of opinions that the president had long expressed in private.
ahahahahahahahahahaha
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:39 PM on August 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
ahahahahahahahahahaha
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:39 PM on August 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
Ehh, I thought you meant the NYT staff. Never Mind.
posted by Yowser at 6:40 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 6:40 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
oh boy i never dreamed that donald trump would express himself in offensive and inappropriate ways, that is so unlike donald trump
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:40 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:40 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yeah, don't riot. Organize and protest in huge numbers. Put pressure on legislators. Stand up where it counts. Resist smart.
posted by vrakatar at 6:40 PM on August 15, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by vrakatar at 6:40 PM on August 15, 2017 [17 favorites]
Let's get these staffers in front of a committee shall we?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:43 PM on August 15, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:43 PM on August 15, 2017 [19 favorites]
I've been responding to every elected official who tweets their outrage that they now need to move beyond social media outrage and take steps to impeach him. Enough is enough, Corey Booker and Elizabeth Warren, etc., talking time is over. They should be pressured to step the f*ck up.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 6:44 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 6:44 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
Apologies if this has been posted already, but this tweetstorm by AltScalesOfJustice is worth reading, IMHO: [THREAD] I'm an executive within DoJ, and have worked for & with Republicans and Democrats, and have had bosses and coworkers that were both
posted by StrawberryPie at 6:45 PM on August 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by StrawberryPie at 6:45 PM on August 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
When was he not bigoted and pro-fascist in public? He's been running his mouth about that shit since he was calling for Obama's birth certificate. He spent his entire campaign denigrating minorities. He hired actual white supremacists for his staff. At what point was it a secret?
posted by Autumnheart at 6:46 PM on August 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Autumnheart at 6:46 PM on August 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
But what can individual senators do? Impeachment proceedings start in the House of Representatives.
posted by mollweide at 6:46 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by mollweide at 6:46 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
@Acosta
GOP leadership source on Trump: "I think his ability to effectively govern is dwindling by the hour."
posted by chris24 at 6:47 PM on August 15, 2017 [23 favorites]
GOP leadership source on Trump: "I think his ability to effectively govern is dwindling by the hour."
posted by chris24 at 6:47 PM on August 15, 2017 [23 favorites]
Any way of confirming AltScalesOfJustice's job position?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:49 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:49 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
I just made the mistake of reading some FB comments on a Buzzfeed article. You guys. What the fuck is happening?
Social media is the fucking devil. It's made everyone feel like they're totally required to comment on shit they don't know anything about. All these people who paid attention to Charlottesville for like 5 minutes and saw a picture of some street fight come across their feed totally contextless are 100% on board with this both sides are hate groups, we should stop being so ~divisive, those nice boys just wanted to celebrate their historical society and they had a permit! So much "I didn't vote for Trump but he's right, you know."
At the organizing meeting I went to tonight it was basically like, confronting these people is a lost cause, let's just concentrate on keeping ourselves and our Black community safe while uplifting Black voices at another location. Which I get and is practical and probably true and I respect their wishes, but I REALLY WANT TO PUNCH A NAZI and then I want to punch the next person who tells me that it's ever wrong to want to punch a nazi.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:49 PM on August 15, 2017 [37 favorites]
Social media is the fucking devil. It's made everyone feel like they're totally required to comment on shit they don't know anything about. All these people who paid attention to Charlottesville for like 5 minutes and saw a picture of some street fight come across their feed totally contextless are 100% on board with this both sides are hate groups, we should stop being so ~divisive, those nice boys just wanted to celebrate their historical society and they had a permit! So much "I didn't vote for Trump but he's right, you know."
At the organizing meeting I went to tonight it was basically like, confronting these people is a lost cause, let's just concentrate on keeping ourselves and our Black community safe while uplifting Black voices at another location. Which I get and is practical and probably true and I respect their wishes, but I REALLY WANT TO PUNCH A NAZI and then I want to punch the next person who tells me that it's ever wrong to want to punch a nazi.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:49 PM on August 15, 2017 [37 favorites]
Same as all the other alt accounts. Probably fake.
posted by Yowser at 6:49 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Yowser at 6:49 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
(and Rogue accounts)
posted by Yowser at 6:50 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Yowser at 6:50 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
But what can individual senators do? Impeachment proceedings start in the House of Representatives.
They need to do more than grar on social media and demonstrate ANY action to remove him. Press conferences calling for resignation, anything more than tweeting. Something to show they hear the majority of Americans.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 6:50 PM on August 15, 2017
They need to do more than grar on social media and demonstrate ANY action to remove him. Press conferences calling for resignation, anything more than tweeting. Something to show they hear the majority of Americans.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 6:50 PM on August 15, 2017
But what can individual senators do?
THEY CAN SAY THAT THE PRESIDENT IS UNFIT FOR OFFICE AND SHOULD RESIGN sorry for shouting
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:50 PM on August 15, 2017 [91 favorites]
THEY CAN SAY THAT THE PRESIDENT IS UNFIT FOR OFFICE AND SHOULD RESIGN sorry for shouting
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:50 PM on August 15, 2017 [91 favorites]
A good story from Kevin Roose, who has been hiding out in Discord chats keeping an eye on these guys: This Was the Alt-Right’s Favorite Chat App. Then Came Charlottesville. The story discussed Discord's change of heart on the issue after last weekend.
He's also got some good tweets expanding on the article:
He's also got some good tweets expanding on the article:
Aside from the disturbing chats, this story was a lesson on how important stable and *good* tech infrastructure is to extremist movementsposted by zachlipton at 6:54 PM on August 15, 2017 [109 favorites]
It's easy to build "alt-right Twitter" for 500 people. It's hard to build one that works across OS's, has 99.9% uptime and 24/7 support.
The alt-right is building its own platforms now, but they're limited to cheap projects that scale easily (alt-Kickstarter, alt-Patreon)
Soon, they're going to exhaust the easy clones. You can't build your own YouTube without Google-sized data centers. You just can't.
Discord was an anomaly, in that it had the resources of a big company, was slick/fast/reliable, *and* tolerated fringe views.
With Discord gone, the alt-right might spin up its own replacement chat client. But it'll be janky, and nowhere near as stable.
More likely, they'll try to go under-radar on Skype or another large platform. But this constant resettling isn't sustainable.
Alt-right leadership is *very* anxious right now. They're realizing that they're nomads, moving from platform to platform as winds change.
Good tech isn't optional for fringe movements -- it's oxygen. And de-platforming could be the single most effective tactic against them.
Point taken. No need to apologize for shouting. We all should be shouting.
posted by mollweide at 6:54 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by mollweide at 6:54 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
National Economic Council Chairman Gary Cohn and Treasury Secretary Steven T. Mnuchin, who are Jewish, stood by uncomfortably as the president exacerbated a controversy that has once engulfed a White House in disarray.
Maybe I'm reading too much into this bit, but do they have background on Mnuchin and Cohn being uncomfortable with this? Certainly a reporter could say that they stood by seeming to be uncomfortable, looking uncomfortable, etc, but to say they were isn't something I'd expect a New York Times writer to do without a source relating how Mnuchin and Cohn felt. I'm sure the nuance would be lost on Trump, but it does seem like it's a possibility that those two or someone close to them talked to the Times about how they really felt. I mean, Mnuchin and Cohn will go right back to working with this horrible administration regardless, so it equates to basically nothing, but I thought it was an interesting bit.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:54 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Maybe I'm reading too much into this bit, but do they have background on Mnuchin and Cohn being uncomfortable with this? Certainly a reporter could say that they stood by seeming to be uncomfortable, looking uncomfortable, etc, but to say they were isn't something I'd expect a New York Times writer to do without a source relating how Mnuchin and Cohn felt. I'm sure the nuance would be lost on Trump, but it does seem like it's a possibility that those two or someone close to them talked to the Times about how they really felt. I mean, Mnuchin and Cohn will go right back to working with this horrible administration regardless, so it equates to basically nothing, but I thought it was an interesting bit.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:54 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
But what can individual senators do? Impeachment proceedings start in the House of Representatives.
And when the prospect of impeachment is raised, people say "Oh, but we still need to get to 67 votes in the Senate," so that is what individual Senators can do: make it obvious that there wil be no weaseling out.
posted by Etrigan at 6:58 PM on August 15, 2017 [23 favorites]
And when the prospect of impeachment is raised, people say "Oh, but we still need to get to 67 votes in the Senate," so that is what individual Senators can do: make it obvious that there wil be no weaseling out.
posted by Etrigan at 6:58 PM on August 15, 2017 [23 favorites]
With Discord gone, the alt-right might spin up its own replacement chat client. But it'll be janky, and nowhere near as stable.
And riddled with security holes for the FBI and antifa eavesdroppers to just waltz right in.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:58 PM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
And riddled with security holes for the FBI and antifa eavesdroppers to just waltz right in.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:58 PM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
i just don't see any way they're going to get the votes to impeach, let alone convict - the republicans will not do it - they would rather divide the american people permanently than admit their president is unsuitable, even if they believe so privately
posted by pyramid termite at 7:02 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 7:02 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
In all fairness, one of the most obvious points of the J & J kid's documentary was that he would eventually stop caring and join the oligarchy like his dad.
posted by Yowser at 7:03 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Yowser at 7:03 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
I disagree termite. Even the most craven will have to get the stink off them, be it russia, racism, or incompetence.
posted by vrakatar at 7:04 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by vrakatar at 7:04 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
those nice boys just wanted to celebrate their historical society and they had a permit!
I heard the President mentioning very nice people who were sad about statue removal and had a permit. (I spit.) He mentioned "they had a permit". Since I've been keeping up with the thread, I thought the Friday night torchlight freak show popped up at the last minute, that they only had a permit for daytime on Saturday. But I haven't heard anyone contradict Trump on that minor detail that in hours of TV viewing. Anyone know? Also, on Saturday the police asked the fascist protesters to move from one park to another and they didn't exactly cooperate. So clearly I'm not getting my facts from the same place as the president.
posted by puddledork at 7:06 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
I heard the President mentioning very nice people who were sad about statue removal and had a permit. (I spit.) He mentioned "they had a permit". Since I've been keeping up with the thread, I thought the Friday night torchlight freak show popped up at the last minute, that they only had a permit for daytime on Saturday. But I haven't heard anyone contradict Trump on that minor detail that in hours of TV viewing. Anyone know? Also, on Saturday the police asked the fascist protesters to move from one park to another and they didn't exactly cooperate. So clearly I'm not getting my facts from the same place as the president.
posted by puddledork at 7:06 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
Any way of confirming AltScalesOfJustice's job position?
I should have stated I have no knowledge whatsoever about who the account holder is. My understanding about the Alt accounts – at least the first ones, like the NPS ones – was that they really were from people inside the agencies. Someone upthread claimed they're probably fake, but I'm not convinced.
Regarding figuring out who they are, well, I guess that would be problematic, as that would break their anonymity, and I for one would absolutely not want that.
(Not sure how my tone is coming across here, but I'm not arguing and not trying to be negative. Just trying to be constructive.)
posted by StrawberryPie at 7:06 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
I should have stated I have no knowledge whatsoever about who the account holder is. My understanding about the Alt accounts – at least the first ones, like the NPS ones – was that they really were from people inside the agencies. Someone upthread claimed they're probably fake, but I'm not convinced.
Regarding figuring out who they are, well, I guess that would be problematic, as that would break their anonymity, and I for one would absolutely not want that.
(Not sure how my tone is coming across here, but I'm not arguing and not trying to be negative. Just trying to be constructive.)
posted by StrawberryPie at 7:06 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
why? as long as they hold power it doesn't matter to them how badly they smell
posted by pyramid termite at 7:06 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by pyramid termite at 7:06 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
But what can individual senators do?
Hold hearings. Place holds on legislation. Vote against literally anything. Senators have a COMICAL amount of individual power. No Republican except John McCain, of all people, has used even the tiniest amount of it against Trump.
They are all Trump. Words mean nothing. They have the power to stop him at any time. They all, every, last, one, specifically choose not to and instead sign on to everything, including his statements today.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:08 PM on August 15, 2017 [46 favorites]
Hold hearings. Place holds on legislation. Vote against literally anything. Senators have a COMICAL amount of individual power. No Republican except John McCain, of all people, has used even the tiniest amount of it against Trump.
They are all Trump. Words mean nothing. They have the power to stop him at any time. They all, every, last, one, specifically choose not to and instead sign on to everything, including his statements today.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:08 PM on August 15, 2017 [46 favorites]
Another option for senators who are uncomfortable with this would be to stop voting for the Trump agenda. A bill with sanctions on Iran and North Korea that Trump wants to start the war he obviously craves passed 98-2. Christopher Wray, Comey's replacement, was confirmed by the Senate 92-5. These things don't have to sail through the Congress, and even one senator has access to procedural roadblocks that can hold things up (and did during the Obama years).
posted by Copronymus at 7:08 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Copronymus at 7:08 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
He felt he had already given too much ground to his opponents, the official said.
His opponents = everyone who isn't a white nationalist.
The White House Evening Communications Briefing.
When doubling down isn't good enough you have to triple-down by putting "HELL FUCKING YEAH I'M DEFENDING THE NAZIS!" in writing.
That is 100% Stephen Miller. He's the most classically authoritarian. Remember his big debut? "The president's authority will not be questioned." He wasn't seen from again in months.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:09 PM on August 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
His opponents = everyone who isn't a white nationalist.
The White House Evening Communications Briefing.
When doubling down isn't good enough you have to triple-down by putting "HELL FUCKING YEAH I'M DEFENDING THE NAZIS!" in writing.
That is 100% Stephen Miller. He's the most classically authoritarian. Remember his big debut? "The president's authority will not be questioned." He wasn't seen from again in months.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:09 PM on August 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
Maybe the institutions can't evict him because the votes aren't there or the inertia is too great; keep up the pressure until the institutions have no choice. At the least, we are seeing unprecedented cracks that have visibly weakened the Presidency and continued pressure will deepen those cracks. Trump never rests and neither should we.
posted by notyou at 7:10 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by notyou at 7:10 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
I've never been so sad to be so right about someone. This was inevitable the moment he was elected. He told us who he was, repeatedly. I'm just so ill and fucking sad.
posted by gatorae at 7:11 PM on August 15, 2017 [57 favorites]
posted by gatorae at 7:11 PM on August 15, 2017 [57 favorites]
It's not about dividing the American people permanently, it's about seizing power permanently.
except they won't be able to control the country - the alt.right will eventually rebel, the left will continue to raise hell and the corporations will eventually get sick of it and assume power one way or another
we may well stop being a democracy, but the current republican crew will not be able to hold on to that kind of power permanently - their bosses will get sick of it
posted by pyramid termite at 7:11 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
except they won't be able to control the country - the alt.right will eventually rebel, the left will continue to raise hell and the corporations will eventually get sick of it and assume power one way or another
we may well stop being a democracy, but the current republican crew will not be able to hold on to that kind of power permanently - their bosses will get sick of it
posted by pyramid termite at 7:11 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
why? as long as they hold power it doesn't matter to them how badly they smell
It matters because this might get so bad they are complicit it how bad it gets, and because they must stand for re-election. I might be being a bit too realpolitik, but the more the people get outraged, the more their reps will have to answer to that outrage.
posted by vrakatar at 7:12 PM on August 15, 2017
It matters because this might get so bad they are complicit it how bad it gets, and because they must stand for re-election. I might be being a bit too realpolitik, but the more the people get outraged, the more their reps will have to answer to that outrage.
posted by vrakatar at 7:12 PM on August 15, 2017
@myqkaplan
TRUMP: Mexicans are bad
TRUMP: Muslims are bad
TRUMP: Media are bad
EVERYONE: what about Nazis
TRUMP: let's not single anyone out
posted by chris24 at 7:14 PM on August 15, 2017 [147 favorites]
TRUMP: Mexicans are bad
TRUMP: Muslims are bad
TRUMP: Media are bad
EVERYONE: what about Nazis
TRUMP: let's not single anyone out
posted by chris24 at 7:14 PM on August 15, 2017 [147 favorites]
Who could have guessed that the guy whose dad was arrested with the KKK, who was sanctioned for housing discrimination against black people, who led the charge that the first black President wasn't a real American, and who bragged on tape about serial sexual assault could be a racist.
(ok the last one isn't racism but... never forget.)
posted by Justinian at 7:15 PM on August 15, 2017 [24 favorites]
(ok the last one isn't racism but... never forget.)
posted by Justinian at 7:15 PM on August 15, 2017 [24 favorites]
except they won't be able to control the country - the alt.right will eventually rebel, the left will continue to raise hell and the corporations will eventually get sick of it and assume power one way or another
No, I think it'd really be more like the alt.right becomes legitimized and militarized and the left gets tanks knocking on their doors, while the corporations move elsewhere with great haste and the economy collapses.
posted by Autumnheart at 7:18 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
No, I think it'd really be more like the alt.right becomes legitimized and militarized and the left gets tanks knocking on their doors, while the corporations move elsewhere with great haste and the economy collapses.
posted by Autumnheart at 7:18 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
ok the last one isn't racism but...
Assholes gonna asshole. It's what they fart.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:20 PM on August 15, 2017
Assholes gonna asshole. It's what they fart.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:20 PM on August 15, 2017
He ran, substantially, by speaking loudly to a hatred that many white supremacists saw as their own; but he was still framing that support as shared opposition -- attacking Obama, not praising David Duke; attacking Mexcians, not praising Caucasians -- and dogwhistled everything else.
On the other hand: he ran on that platform; but now he's governing. There was always a slim chance he might pivot; that he did not truly hold those views. That he would in fact condemn racism; that he would condemn domestic terrorism. He did not.
He did run on those things, of course he did. But he also ran on a lot of other promises, not to cut medicaid and Social Security, bringing back coal and factory jobs, sticking it to China and the rest of the world on trade, he didn't only with with racism, Republicans have run on racism for forever, that's literally the party platform since FDR. Trump mixed the overt racism with promises of a real economic populism that is extremely popular on the ground, and Democrats have gotten away from talking about in concrete and relatable terms. It wasn't one or the other, it was both, and the economic promises were the new thing coming from a Republican.
Trump isn't going to deliver on those economic promises. It was obvious he never was, because Republicans. He lied. It was obvious to us he was lying, but not to ~200k white voters in Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Michigan. Now he's showing the world the only part he was serious about was the racist KKK part, and that's not a winning message without the other.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:20 PM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
On the other hand: he ran on that platform; but now he's governing. There was always a slim chance he might pivot; that he did not truly hold those views. That he would in fact condemn racism; that he would condemn domestic terrorism. He did not.
He did run on those things, of course he did. But he also ran on a lot of other promises, not to cut medicaid and Social Security, bringing back coal and factory jobs, sticking it to China and the rest of the world on trade, he didn't only with with racism, Republicans have run on racism for forever, that's literally the party platform since FDR. Trump mixed the overt racism with promises of a real economic populism that is extremely popular on the ground, and Democrats have gotten away from talking about in concrete and relatable terms. It wasn't one or the other, it was both, and the economic promises were the new thing coming from a Republican.
Trump isn't going to deliver on those economic promises. It was obvious he never was, because Republicans. He lied. It was obvious to us he was lying, but not to ~200k white voters in Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Michigan. Now he's showing the world the only part he was serious about was the racist KKK part, and that's not a winning message without the other.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:20 PM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
@clayaiken
Remember all those times I defended @realDonaldTrump and believed he was not actually racist? Well... I am a f*****g dumbass. #imsorry
posted by chris24 at 7:24 PM on August 15, 2017 [70 favorites]
Remember all those times I defended @realDonaldTrump and believed he was not actually racist? Well... I am a f*****g dumbass. #imsorry
posted by chris24 at 7:24 PM on August 15, 2017 [70 favorites]
while the corporations move elsewhere
Some corporations, like Wal-Mart, need the US market and they need US minorities to shop with them. It's fine for Merck to move all their operations overseas but plenty of corporations either have too much presence here to move quickly or need us vitally as a market. And while the corporations of the 1930's were fine getting on board the Nazi train, they didn't have their predecessors' fine example of how it might all work out. I expect more corporate pushback from this. Not from all of them, but probably from more of them than you might expect.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:25 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
Some corporations, like Wal-Mart, need the US market and they need US minorities to shop with them. It's fine for Merck to move all their operations overseas but plenty of corporations either have too much presence here to move quickly or need us vitally as a market. And while the corporations of the 1930's were fine getting on board the Nazi train, they didn't have their predecessors' fine example of how it might all work out. I expect more corporate pushback from this. Not from all of them, but probably from more of them than you might expect.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:25 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
Stopped Clock Jennifer Rubin, WaPo: What did you expect from Trump?
We should be clear on several points. First, it is morally reprehensible to serve in this White House, supporting a president so utterly unfit to lead a great country. Second, John F. Kelly has utterly failed as chief of staff; the past two weeks have been the worst of Trump’s presidency, many would agree. He can at this point only serve his country by resigning and warning the country that Trump is a cancer on the presidency, to borrow a phrase. Third, Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner have no excuses and get no free passes. They are as responsible as anyone by continuing to enable the president. Finally, Trump apologists have run out of excuses and credibility. He was at the time plainly the more objectionable of the two main party candidates; in refusing to recognize that they did the country great harm. They can make amends by denouncing him and withdrawing all support. In short, Trump’s embrace and verbal defense of neo-Nazis and white nationalists should be disqualifying from public service. All true patriots must do their utmost to get him out of the Oval Office as fast as possible.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:32 PM on August 15, 2017 [74 favorites]
I wonder if journalists ever call their representatives.
posted by rhizome at 7:41 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 7:41 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
He told us who he was, repeatedly.
No matter how he leaves office, I fully expect his last words on the public stage to be 'You knew damn well I was a snake before you took me in.'
posted by yellowbinder at 7:43 PM on August 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
No matter how he leaves office, I fully expect his last words on the public stage to be 'You knew damn well I was a snake before you took me in.'
posted by yellowbinder at 7:43 PM on August 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
lalex: "At 10:07pm tonight this became the most-liked tweet ever"
I just realized something. We all know that Trump is obsessed with tweeting and deeply needy for external validation (e.g.: how he's always claiming the best "ratings" even for things that aren't rated, like speeches). Yet, I don't think I've ever heard him say one thing about retweet or fave/like numbers. I do recall him mentioning his follower counts, though. I'd think this would be a pretty simple concept for him to grasp. I can't help but fantasize that if he ever did find out about this system and how Obama's tweets have been getting higher "ratings" than his that he'd spend all his waking hours trying to craft the perfect viral tweet and then through trial-and-error he'd accidentally turn his Twitter account into @dog_rates or something.
posted by mhum at 7:47 PM on August 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
I just realized something. We all know that Trump is obsessed with tweeting and deeply needy for external validation (e.g.: how he's always claiming the best "ratings" even for things that aren't rated, like speeches). Yet, I don't think I've ever heard him say one thing about retweet or fave/like numbers. I do recall him mentioning his follower counts, though. I'd think this would be a pretty simple concept for him to grasp. I can't help but fantasize that if he ever did find out about this system and how Obama's tweets have been getting higher "ratings" than his that he'd spend all his waking hours trying to craft the perfect viral tweet and then through trial-and-error he'd accidentally turn his Twitter account into @dog_rates or something.
posted by mhum at 7:47 PM on August 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
rhizome: Journalist here, and I don't. It really bothers me, but I feel it's important to refrain from political involvement as a matter of journalistic ethics. To me helping preserve the integrity of the profession is really important, no matter how I feel personally. I also don't give to political causes. I'll be honest, it is really, REALLY hard right now and the journalists I know are engaged in fierce debate over the right way to handle this, especially now that even seemingly benign causes like homelessness or hunger have been politicized.
posted by mynameisluka at 7:47 PM on August 15, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by mynameisluka at 7:47 PM on August 15, 2017 [17 favorites]
No matter how he leaves office, I fully expect his last words on the public stage to be 'You knew damn well I was a snake before you took me in.'
Too honest. It will be "History will show I was the best president. The best. You wait."
posted by greermahoney at 7:48 PM on August 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
Too honest. It will be "History will show I was the best president. The best. You wait."
posted by greermahoney at 7:48 PM on August 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
P.S. I know journalists who do, and a lot depends on their beats/journalistic focus. Just one data point.
posted by mynameisluka at 7:49 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by mynameisluka at 7:49 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Journalist here, and I don't. It really bothers me, but I feel it's important to refrain from political involvement as a matter of journalistic ethics.
Really? Do you not vote either? This is strange to me. I didn't think being a journalist meant giving up your right to an opinion outside the job.
posted by greermahoney at 7:50 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
Really? Do you not vote either? This is strange to me. I didn't think being a journalist meant giving up your right to an opinion outside the job.
posted by greermahoney at 7:50 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
Sorry, should have completed my thought before answering three times: Here's the Society of Professional Journalists' stance on political participation. Different news organizations have different rules, as well.
posted by mynameisluka at 7:50 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by mynameisluka at 7:50 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yeah, as Jennifer Rubin implies, whoever picked "a fortnight or so" in the John Kelly quits pool is probably feeling really good. Dang. This is August when you never roll out a marketing plan!
posted by notyou at 7:52 PM on August 15, 2017
posted by notyou at 7:52 PM on August 15, 2017
R Senator from Kansas.
@JerryMoran
White supremacy, bigotry & racism have absolutely no place in our society & no one - especially POTUS - should ever tolerate it. Full STMT:
posted by chris24 at 7:53 PM on August 15, 2017 [16 favorites]
@JerryMoran
White supremacy, bigotry & racism have absolutely no place in our society & no one - especially POTUS - should ever tolerate it. Full STMT:
posted by chris24 at 7:53 PM on August 15, 2017 [16 favorites]
it's crap. you have all these progressives going into lines of work (public sector, journalism, non-profits) where they are either legally required, ethically required, or just pressured to becoming apolitical and utterly sidelined.
posted by entropicamericana at 7:54 PM on August 15, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 7:54 PM on August 15, 2017 [16 favorites]
Thanks, my name, that link clears up a lot. Wow. That's more strict than I think is necessary. But I'm sure there is good reason.
posted by greermahoney at 7:55 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by greermahoney at 7:55 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Ah yes, the Society of Professional Journalism, the society so ethical that a chapter gives out "awards" to Gamergate harassers every year.
posted by Yowser at 7:58 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 7:58 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
What can senators do about impeachment when impeachment starts in the House? well, if I had a senator I could contact, I would suggest that they might want to call their Representative, same as the rest of us.
or they could walk down the street and have a nice long conversation face to face but phones are fun too.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:58 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
or they could walk down the street and have a nice long conversation face to face but phones are fun too.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:58 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Here's the Society of Professional Journalists' stance on political participation. Different news organizations have different rules, as well.
Which is how you can tell FOX is not a journalist organization, and the "journalists" that work there like Shep Smith and, I guess Brit Hume?, know they are whoring their reputations out as cover for fascist propaganda.
And then there's CNN of course, also not journalism, but there doesn't seem to be anything in the code of ethics against being a war porn death cult.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:58 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
Which is how you can tell FOX is not a journalist organization, and the "journalists" that work there like Shep Smith and, I guess Brit Hume?, know they are whoring their reputations out as cover for fascist propaganda.
And then there's CNN of course, also not journalism, but there doesn't seem to be anything in the code of ethics against being a war porn death cult.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:58 PM on August 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
Correction: August 15, 2017
An earlier version of this article incorrectly reported the vacation location of Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner. The couple was vacationing in Vermont, not Croatia.
posted by theodolite at 8:03 PM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
An earlier version of this article incorrectly reported the vacation location of Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner. The couple was vacationing in Vermont, not Croatia.
posted by theodolite at 8:03 PM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
A handful of journalists make a point of not voting. Jake Tapper says he doesn't vote on any race he covers, and Leonard Downie, Jr didn't vote when he was Executive Editor of the Washington Post (and Keith Olbermann is on that list, though the idea he's preserving non-partisan independence is laughable). Chris Cillizza doesn't vote, a fitting position for our nation's most prominent "both sides" commentator. CJR wrote a good story on whether reporters vote in primaries; voting in primaries is a little more delicate since it requires you to align yourself with a party in many states.
I think it's not a super common position among journalists, but not unheard of.
posted by zachlipton at 8:05 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
I think it's not a super common position among journalists, but not unheard of.
posted by zachlipton at 8:05 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
I think it's ridiculous, myself. If my house is on fire I don't need to refuse to help evacuate in order to accurately report the situation later.
posted by Justinian at 8:08 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 8:08 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yea, I'm sorry I just called Brit Hume a journalist. That was wrong of me and I apologize to the entire profession of journalists. Brit Hume is a fucking monster as bad as Sean Hannity. FOX has exactly one journalist still working there, inexplicably.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:11 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:11 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
not to mention the reporters' parent companies have no problem voting with their dollars
posted by entropicamericana at 8:11 PM on August 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 8:11 PM on August 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
I would think "Vote but disclose who you voted for" should be the standard for journalists. Nobody can be unbiased, but you can disclose your biases and let people take your words accordingly.
posted by mmoncur at 8:14 PM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by mmoncur at 8:14 PM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
I like how he rolled out of that elevator with about 100 other people like from a clown car.
Ever since he was elected, I've fantasized about a simple protest that the press could accomplish by turning off the fake shutter sound emitted by their digital cameras when a picture is taken, without saying a word before doing so. I'm pretty sure the silence would be stunning.
posted by not_that_epiphanius at 8:14 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
Ever since he was elected, I've fantasized about a simple protest that the press could accomplish by turning off the fake shutter sound emitted by their digital cameras when a picture is taken, without saying a word before doing so. I'm pretty sure the silence would be stunning.
posted by not_that_epiphanius at 8:14 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
Takiyah Thompson is facing felony charges but has no apologies to give about pulling down that statue. I hope they decide not to make the felony charge, though. A hero.
posted by emjaybee at 8:14 PM on August 15, 2017 [35 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 8:14 PM on August 15, 2017 [35 favorites]
greermahoney, I vote. I have to draw the line somewhere, and I'm a citizen first.
As far as the house fire analogy goes, I'd trust MY ability to report accurately, but someone might refuse to read my account because I'd been in the fire, or discount my entire publication or profession for that reason. That's my reasoning, at least.
I guess I *could* call my representatives and nobody would be the wiser. But I figure ethics are what you do when nobody is watching.
posted by mynameisluka at 8:14 PM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
As far as the house fire analogy goes, I'd trust MY ability to report accurately, but someone might refuse to read my account because I'd been in the fire, or discount my entire publication or profession for that reason. That's my reasoning, at least.
I guess I *could* call my representatives and nobody would be the wiser. But I figure ethics are what you do when nobody is watching.
posted by mynameisluka at 8:14 PM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
I always voted, when I worked for a newspaper. But we were told by management to refrain from bumper stickers/yard signs/public displays of that sort.
Which I've continued even now, though I've left the field and it's no longer an issue. I'm more worried that my car would get egged or something when I visited my western Kansas hometown.
posted by rewil at 8:17 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Which I've continued even now, though I've left the field and it's no longer an issue. I'm more worried that my car would get egged or something when I visited my western Kansas hometown.
posted by rewil at 8:17 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
the fake shutter sound emitted by their digital cameras
Digital SLRs still have real mirrors and shutters. The sound is mostly the mirror raising and lowering. People who don't turn off the shutter sound on their smartphones are monsters.
posted by dis_integration at 8:25 PM on August 15, 2017 [35 favorites]
Digital SLRs still have real mirrors and shutters. The sound is mostly the mirror raising and lowering. People who don't turn off the shutter sound on their smartphones are monsters.
posted by dis_integration at 8:25 PM on August 15, 2017 [35 favorites]
Always nice to check up on what an old character we don't see very often now is up to. Boston Globe: N.H. neighbors say Corey Lewandowski threatened them in land dispute
Neighbors of President Donald Trump’s former campaign manager Corey Lewandowski say he harassed them in a land dispute and threatened to use his ‘‘political clout’’ to make their lives ‘‘a nightmare.’’posted by zachlipton at 8:27 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
Glenn and Irene Schwartz countersued Lewandowski this month after he filed a $5 million lawsuit in July over access to a pond-front property in Windham, New Hampshire. Lewandowski accused the couple of blocking an easement granted to him so he could reach the tract. Court documents indicate Lewandowski is building a garage at the property.
In the countersuit, the Schwartzes accuse Lewandowski of repeatedly intimidating them, once coming out of his house with a baseball bat and another time yelling on the phone that he would ‘‘use his political connections and clout to shut down all building and work and make your life a nightmare with an expensive and extended lawsuit.’’
My wife is a reporter for one of the city papers here. We've argued about the political participation thing quite a bit. She of course votes and will continue to do so, but since she began covering politics and politics-adjacent stories, she's been extremely hesitant to express any political opinion online, and has said she can't attend political rallies or protests because she could lose her job if the issues she's concerned about and the issues she covers ever intersect. I frankly think the idea of a non-partisan media is nothing more than a shared delusion that people believe in to avoid confronting the inconvenient truth that every source of information has a bias of some sort, and that keeping people from participating in political causes because of who they work for is wrong. But we all have to make compromises to get by in this fucked up world, and right now, she's doing what she's expected to do.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:28 PM on August 15, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 8:28 PM on August 15, 2017 [18 favorites]
I get the feeling that the question of media personnels' participation in politics has been obviated, now that Fox & Friends have had an open channel directly feeding into POTUS45's brain.
posted by runcifex at 8:37 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by runcifex at 8:37 PM on August 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
That's easy to say when you aren't the one trying to maintain professional and personal ethics.
posted by notyou at 8:47 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by notyou at 8:47 PM on August 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
Neutrality is a fine goal for journalists in normal times. I suspect that it increases confidence that reporting is accurate. Though perhaps such increased confidence is unwarranted. But in any event, these are not normal times. The press is being attacked systematically by one side in the political discourse. Why think that neutrality is even permissible, let alone obligatory, in such times? Public confidence is already eroded. Remaining neutral is not going to help.
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 8:48 PM on August 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 8:48 PM on August 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
When semi-billionaire Richard Riordan decided to run for Los Angeles Mayor, I was employed by a company he owned about 30% of. The offices were in the City of Pasadena, but I lived within the L.A. City Limits and could vote for him or any of his opponents. A memo was issued suggesting that "bumper stickers and other political paraphernalia" was not allowed on the company's premises. Yeah, they didn't want a part-owner to drop by and see a row of "NOT YOU" stickers on cars in the parking lot. Yeah, there is no First Amendment at the workplace, and that certainly applies to anybody in the media for whom Your Opinion is not part of Your Act. I wonder how the people working in newsrooms recently acquired by Sinclair Broadcasting feel (I'd guess: shitty).
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:54 PM on August 15, 2017
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:54 PM on August 15, 2017
CNN is still abysmal, but their home page seems to have discarded neutrality over the last 24 hours. Current headline, which is representative: "Trump emboldens the hate-mongers".
Of course, CNN is "fake news" anyway, so fat lot of difference it will make at this point.
I am physically ill over this shit. Didn't get much sleep last night. Drank most of a bottle of wine tonight. Can't go anywhere without eyeing white male faces with suspicion (and I'm white and male).
I'm a lifelong atheist with the tattoo to prove it, and I wish I had a god to pray to right now.
Honestly not sure whether I'd pray for peace and understanding, or for Nazi blood to run in the streets. Maybe some of both.
(Seriously, though: please don't resort to violence. Yet. That would be a mistake.)
posted by escape from the potato planet at 9:02 PM on August 15, 2017 [15 favorites]
Of course, CNN is "fake news" anyway, so fat lot of difference it will make at this point.
I am physically ill over this shit. Didn't get much sleep last night. Drank most of a bottle of wine tonight. Can't go anywhere without eyeing white male faces with suspicion (and I'm white and male).
I'm a lifelong atheist with the tattoo to prove it, and I wish I had a god to pray to right now.
Honestly not sure whether I'd pray for peace and understanding, or for Nazi blood to run in the streets. Maybe some of both.
(Seriously, though: please don't resort to violence. Yet. That would be a mistake.)
posted by escape from the potato planet at 9:02 PM on August 15, 2017 [15 favorites]
Any way of confirming AltScalesOfJustice's job position?
FWIW, @AltScalesOfJust is among the list of Alts and Rogues that Snopes claims to have verified.
FWIW, @AltScalesOfJust is among the list of Alts and Rogues that Snopes claims to have verified.
We have been working to compile a list of verified alt accounts so that we can provide readers a reliable guide....posted by DevilsAdvocate at 9:07 PM on August 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
Some members work with, or within, the government; some work in the fields they represent on Twitter and convey information to and from entities that would otherwise be gagged; still others are part of a trusted support network who do not claim to represent any particular part of the federal government, with the stated goal of disseminating accurate information.
We cannot guarantee everything every account posts is true or direct insider information; however, we can verify that each has a legitimate connection to what they’re posting about....
Our methods for verification are varied: they involve everything from meeting with or speaking to the people behind the accounts and double- and triple-checking their information and IDs, to getting those persons we have already verified to vouch for others, to working with other trusted third parties to verify information. These research methods are specific yet vague by design, as we do not wish to put anybody’s livelihood or reputation at risk.
I wish I had a god to pray to right now.
Someone, somewhere today said they now pray daily to the goddess, Shirley This.
posted by greermahoney at 9:09 PM on August 15, 2017 [54 favorites]
Someone, somewhere today said they now pray daily to the goddess, Shirley This.
posted by greermahoney at 9:09 PM on August 15, 2017 [54 favorites]
their home page seems to have discarded neutrality over the last 24 hours. Current headline, which is representative: "Trump emboldens the hate-mongers"
That's not discarding neutrality, that's reporting a simple truth.
posted by Candleman at 9:12 PM on August 15, 2017 [16 favorites]
That's not discarding neutrality, that's reporting a simple truth.
posted by Candleman at 9:12 PM on August 15, 2017 [16 favorites]
WH aide: Hey, Mr. Trump, want to hear a joke?
Trump: Whatever.
WH aide: Why was 6 afraid of 7?
Trump: I don't know.
WH Aide: Because 7 8 9.
Trump: I bet 6 did something to 5.
posted by perhapses at 9:14 PM on August 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
Trump: Whatever.
WH aide: Why was 6 afraid of 7?
Trump: I don't know.
WH Aide: Because 7 8 9.
Trump: I bet 6 did something to 5.
posted by perhapses at 9:14 PM on August 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
Seems like a good night to bang my self-care drum.
I adore all you wonderful people and want you to take good care of yourselves. You are worthy of respect and love, no matter what any politician says. Please drink some water, get some sleep, turn off your devices if you need, and cut yourself all the slack.
In addition, if you need to talk to someone who will listen to you, validate your feelings, and not judge you, call a crisis center or text 741-741. That's what they're there for.
And be excellent to each other.
posted by greermahoney at 9:16 PM on August 15, 2017 [22 favorites]
I adore all you wonderful people and want you to take good care of yourselves. You are worthy of respect and love, no matter what any politician says. Please drink some water, get some sleep, turn off your devices if you need, and cut yourself all the slack.
In addition, if you need to talk to someone who will listen to you, validate your feelings, and not judge you, call a crisis center or text 741-741. That's what they're there for.
And be excellent to each other.
posted by greermahoney at 9:16 PM on August 15, 2017 [22 favorites]
I was going to leave this comment alone but I'm still fucking livid about it so I'd like to point out a couple of things:
OH hey we had a whole conversation about the Alt-Left designation in a previous thread and its application to the "left" dudes who are actively misogynistic and/or Russia shills, but whatever, fuck women and who gives a shit about treason right? Yup, when the piece of shit President with a cesspool of a soul co-opts yet another term for his own Orwellian purposes, as he's done many times before and will do again because he is an amoral liar, let's blame the women for speaking up against misogyny in the first place rather than, you know, the Orwellian Nazi piece of shit.
(snip)
I mean, Jesus Christ, that women who spoke up against the Alt-Left are your focus right now -- what the fuck is wrong with you?
Hi there. I am a middle-aged woman. I am a lefty. I am an activist. I have been these things for many years now.
I am surrounded by amazing women who are lefties. And activists. And POC who also are (you guessed it) lefties. And activists. And guess what, even white male comrades too! Who are also lefties. Activists.
These people show up and have been showing up and doing the hard fucking front line work with their bodies and time and fearlessness for years now to try and push our country toward a more humane and equitable and empathetic and fair place. These people I'm surrounded by - many of them young people but also a lot of grizzled old-timers who've seen it all and then some- have been working tirelessly to try and hold people in power accountable, to guarantee healthcare, and shelter, and a social safety net for everyone.
Most of these people preferred Sanders in the primary based on his platform and record. This shouldn't be surprising, based on my paragraph above (like, duh) but somehow it is. Somehow it makes anyone who wasn't a fan of where Clinton stood on progressive issues compared to where Sanders stood a misogynist. Or a self-hating woman. And so it goes, despite the fact that most everyone I know, down to the most radical, still voted for Clinton in order to keep the person who was the biggest threat to democracy out of power.
I'll tell you why this whole "Alt-left" discussion is important though. I have never listened to a Chapo Trap House podcast which I guess what that comment referring to? Dudes on the left like that? I dunno. All I know is that I follow lots of kickass leftist women and groups on twitter and I started seeing "Alt-left" to describe them by centrists and liberals pretty early on. These aren't mostly white dudes getting that label btw, over the years I've cultivated a follow list that's primarily POC, but all lefty. I started seeing the phrase "Alt-left" used in social media to describe leftists who were agitating hard in social media and out on the streets for single-payer, prison reform, immigrant rights, solidarity strikes, police reform, BLM, religious freedom, civil rights, etc. et
Maybe, depending on who one follows, the term "Alt-left" is solely used by liberal (but not leftist? odd, that.) women to describe misogynist leftwing jerks. But that's not how I've been seeing it used, from the very beginning, and I've been seeing it against people like me for quite a while now.
Look at any "centrist" "we are all adults" type discussion online. Without fail the term "Alt-left" is used to describe all groups who agitate for something with a socialist or justice platform. The "both sides" has been going on for what feels like a couple years now and that stupid term has been used to smear the left-most everywhere *I* went since it came into usage.
If you don't believe me, take a look right here on metafilter. Go ahead and search for the term right there in the thread before this one. The term Alt-left is was latched on to by centrist liberals almost immediately as a stand in for "lefty wingnuts" . Being upset that bringing the term "Alt-left" into the mainstream meant your average joe who doesn't follow leftist politics all that closely could use that shorthand and assume that people to the left of mainstream democrats were "Alt-left" Nazis just like the right wing "Alt-Right" Nazis.
Really, I can be upset at more than one thing at a time. But right at this moment I'm upset about this constant BS of playbook move asserting that anyone who is a lefty and not a fan of the mainstream democratic party right now is a misogynistic russia shill (?!) . Fuck that noise. There's thousands upon thousands of us out here and we have been, and will be, on the front lines fighting for true democracy and equality.
posted by stagewhisper at 9:18 PM on August 15, 2017 [74 favorites]
OH hey we had a whole conversation about the Alt-Left designation in a previous thread and its application to the "left" dudes who are actively misogynistic and/or Russia shills, but whatever, fuck women and who gives a shit about treason right? Yup, when the piece of shit President with a cesspool of a soul co-opts yet another term for his own Orwellian purposes, as he's done many times before and will do again because he is an amoral liar, let's blame the women for speaking up against misogyny in the first place rather than, you know, the Orwellian Nazi piece of shit.
(snip)
I mean, Jesus Christ, that women who spoke up against the Alt-Left are your focus right now -- what the fuck is wrong with you?
Hi there. I am a middle-aged woman. I am a lefty. I am an activist. I have been these things for many years now.
I am surrounded by amazing women who are lefties. And activists. And POC who also are (you guessed it) lefties. And activists. And guess what, even white male comrades too! Who are also lefties. Activists.
These people show up and have been showing up and doing the hard fucking front line work with their bodies and time and fearlessness for years now to try and push our country toward a more humane and equitable and empathetic and fair place. These people I'm surrounded by - many of them young people but also a lot of grizzled old-timers who've seen it all and then some- have been working tirelessly to try and hold people in power accountable, to guarantee healthcare, and shelter, and a social safety net for everyone.
Most of these people preferred Sanders in the primary based on his platform and record. This shouldn't be surprising, based on my paragraph above (like, duh) but somehow it is. Somehow it makes anyone who wasn't a fan of where Clinton stood on progressive issues compared to where Sanders stood a misogynist. Or a self-hating woman. And so it goes, despite the fact that most everyone I know, down to the most radical, still voted for Clinton in order to keep the person who was the biggest threat to democracy out of power.
I'll tell you why this whole "Alt-left" discussion is important though. I have never listened to a Chapo Trap House podcast which I guess what that comment referring to? Dudes on the left like that? I dunno. All I know is that I follow lots of kickass leftist women and groups on twitter and I started seeing "Alt-left" to describe them by centrists and liberals pretty early on. These aren't mostly white dudes getting that label btw, over the years I've cultivated a follow list that's primarily POC, but all lefty. I started seeing the phrase "Alt-left" used in social media to describe leftists who were agitating hard in social media and out on the streets for single-payer, prison reform, immigrant rights, solidarity strikes, police reform, BLM, religious freedom, civil rights, etc. et
Maybe, depending on who one follows, the term "Alt-left" is solely used by liberal (but not leftist? odd, that.) women to describe misogynist leftwing jerks. But that's not how I've been seeing it used, from the very beginning, and I've been seeing it against people like me for quite a while now.
Look at any "centrist" "we are all adults" type discussion online. Without fail the term "Alt-left" is used to describe all groups who agitate for something with a socialist or justice platform. The "both sides" has been going on for what feels like a couple years now and that stupid term has been used to smear the left-most everywhere *I* went since it came into usage.
If you don't believe me, take a look right here on metafilter. Go ahead and search for the term right there in the thread before this one. The term Alt-left is was latched on to by centrist liberals almost immediately as a stand in for "lefty wingnuts" . Being upset that bringing the term "Alt-left" into the mainstream meant your average joe who doesn't follow leftist politics all that closely could use that shorthand and assume that people to the left of mainstream democrats were "Alt-left" Nazis just like the right wing "Alt-Right" Nazis.
Really, I can be upset at more than one thing at a time. But right at this moment I'm upset about this constant BS of playbook move asserting that anyone who is a lefty and not a fan of the mainstream democratic party right now is a misogynistic russia shill (?!) . Fuck that noise. There's thousands upon thousands of us out here and we have been, and will be, on the front lines fighting for true democracy and equality.
posted by stagewhisper at 9:18 PM on August 15, 2017 [74 favorites]
perhapses, it's because 7 was a registered 6 offender. So of course Trump's gonna symphatize with 7.
posted by azpenguin at 9:19 PM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by azpenguin at 9:19 PM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
> That's easy to say when you aren't the one trying to maintain professional and personal ethics.Certainly, and that's why I say it's a feeling, not an opinion.
Media outlets have already taken sides and they'll go on doing so. I'm speaking of real media, not the fake news industry. When the POTUS bashes the (#failing) free media with #FakeNews tags it's ever more important to maintain high standards. Does that precludes taking a side? The sides are already taken. Maintaining the golden standards of ethical journalism is taking a side. And that side isn't necessarily in contradiction with certain political acts, such as secret-ballot voting. But then of course, "not necessarily in contradiction" doesn't mean it's (necessarily) easy or hazard-free.
Speaking of personal ethics, mine is rather dubious, and if you hold me up to certain standards I support, you'll quickly see a monster. But... I can try?
posted by runcifex at 9:22 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
The Rude Pundit: Seven (or So) Calm Takeaways from Trump's Mad Tantrum in Trump Tower
posted by homunculus at 9:24 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 9:24 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
Put another way: I think a lot of people were operating under the assumption that Trump was a kind of Racist Uncle -- someone who's racist, and who brings that up every Thanksgiving oh gosh, but isn't actively out marching in the streets enacting racist violence; that his was a kind of lazy racism driven by ignorance, rather than an embrace of any particular racist ideology or belief system.
I'm sorry fellow white people, but this sentiment is some fucking white nonsense. Why do we feel the need to split hairs about who is gosh a real racist like those scary Nazis out marching with torches, and who is just sort of mostly racist like our shitty racist Uncle? You know why? Because all of us know tons of white people, many of whom we are close to - our friends, coworkers, family, people we share our living space with - who are fucking racist. And we want to comfort ourselves by distinguishing between the guy at work who says shitty things about "the Mexicans" in his neighborhood, and the goose-stepping morons out in the street. Because then we don't need to do anything. We can just think "Bob at work is an asshole" and carry on with our merry lives. We can still have Thanksgiving with our shitty racist Uncle. We can just roll our eyes when grandma says retrograde shit and think "She's from another generation."
Does someone say racist shit, think racist shit, or do racist shit? Then they are racist. That is the only criteria. That is what racism is. We need to stop continuously atomizing racism to make it okay for the people we care about. It's not okay. Ever. In any context. Even at work. Even at Thanksgiving. Even if it's grandma. White people need to harden the fuck up and start deciding where the line is drawn. Because our need for comfort is literally killing people in America.
posted by supercrayon at 9:26 PM on August 15, 2017 [184 favorites]
I'm sorry fellow white people, but this sentiment is some fucking white nonsense. Why do we feel the need to split hairs about who is gosh a real racist like those scary Nazis out marching with torches, and who is just sort of mostly racist like our shitty racist Uncle? You know why? Because all of us know tons of white people, many of whom we are close to - our friends, coworkers, family, people we share our living space with - who are fucking racist. And we want to comfort ourselves by distinguishing between the guy at work who says shitty things about "the Mexicans" in his neighborhood, and the goose-stepping morons out in the street. Because then we don't need to do anything. We can just think "Bob at work is an asshole" and carry on with our merry lives. We can still have Thanksgiving with our shitty racist Uncle. We can just roll our eyes when grandma says retrograde shit and think "She's from another generation."
Does someone say racist shit, think racist shit, or do racist shit? Then they are racist. That is the only criteria. That is what racism is. We need to stop continuously atomizing racism to make it okay for the people we care about. It's not okay. Ever. In any context. Even at work. Even at Thanksgiving. Even if it's grandma. White people need to harden the fuck up and start deciding where the line is drawn. Because our need for comfort is literally killing people in America.
posted by supercrayon at 9:26 PM on August 15, 2017 [184 favorites]
A message to Kelly:
@michaeljkellyjr:
I PLAY the most loyal C.O.S ever and I can tell you now General, not even Doug Stamper sticks around after that shitshow.
posted by chris24 at 9:33 PM on August 15, 2017 [48 favorites]
@michaeljkellyjr:
I PLAY the most loyal C.O.S ever and I can tell you now General, not even Doug Stamper sticks around after that shitshow.
posted by chris24 at 9:33 PM on August 15, 2017 [48 favorites]
Supercrayon, you'd get all 100 of my favorites if I could.
posted by nakedmolerats at 9:35 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by nakedmolerats at 9:35 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
For what it's worth, Daily Caller says that Hope Hicks will be named White House Communications Director.
This will give noted obnoxious jerk @ComfortablySmug a chance to test a hypothesis (perhaps tongue in cheek) he's been working on since August, that "Hicks is sabotaging the Trump campaign from the inside to save America." I doubt that, but she's proved to be indestructible so far, so seeing her enter a job that destroys everyone it touches would be interesting.
posted by zachlipton at 9:48 PM on August 15, 2017
This will give noted obnoxious jerk @ComfortablySmug a chance to test a hypothesis (perhaps tongue in cheek) he's been working on since August, that "Hicks is sabotaging the Trump campaign from the inside to save America." I doubt that, but she's proved to be indestructible so far, so seeing her enter a job that destroys everyone it touches would be interesting.
posted by zachlipton at 9:48 PM on August 15, 2017
Fuck. Thanksgiving in 2017 is going to somehow be worse than Thanksgiving in 2016.
Fuck Thanksgiving
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:53 PM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
Fuck Thanksgiving
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:53 PM on August 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
We could also talk about the fact that a publication that hired Jason Kessler and just deleted its "you should drive through protesters" article was leaked an exclusive from the White House today.
posted by zachlipton at 9:53 PM on August 15, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 9:53 PM on August 15, 2017 [15 favorites]
This seems much more of a slam dunk against DailyCaller than Gawker was for Theil/Hulkster. I hope Tucker is slumming it as a QVC host by the end of it.
posted by rhizome at 9:56 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by rhizome at 9:56 PM on August 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
The term Alt-left is was latched on to by centrist liberals almost immediately as a stand in for "lefty wingnuts"
Alt-left drives me even more nuts than alt-right. For fuck's sake there are already words for these things, which bugs me as an amateur lexicographer to a tiny degree that isn't close to how mad I am about actual politcs, but still.
The people they're calling alt-leftists are leftists. Liberal isn't the same thing, it's just closer on the horseshoe than conservative or the dreaded reactionary. Anarchists aren't alt-leftists, they're (we're) anarchists.
posted by aspersioncast at 9:59 PM on August 15, 2017 [15 favorites]
Alt-left drives me even more nuts than alt-right. For fuck's sake there are already words for these things, which bugs me as an amateur lexicographer to a tiny degree that isn't close to how mad I am about actual politcs, but still.
The people they're calling alt-leftists are leftists. Liberal isn't the same thing, it's just closer on the horseshoe than conservative or the dreaded reactionary. Anarchists aren't alt-leftists, they're (we're) anarchists.
posted by aspersioncast at 9:59 PM on August 15, 2017 [15 favorites]
This must be an agonizing decision for Michael Dell! My advice is to think about what Hitler would do, and do the opposite.
The not Hitler option would be not to use IBM as a vendor.
Perhaps using MIPS and running NetBSD on it? But then who's gonna buy and use that?
posted by rough ashlar at 10:00 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
The not Hitler option would be not to use IBM as a vendor.
Perhaps using MIPS and running NetBSD on it? But then who's gonna buy and use that?
posted by rough ashlar at 10:00 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm just so angry about today's events that I'm seriously considering blotting out the sun. I'll try to contain myself for a few days and see how it goes
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:45 PM on August 15, 2017 [42 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:45 PM on August 15, 2017 [42 favorites]
Jimmy kimmel's monologue is interesting (it hits its stride closer to 5:30 in). It's not exactly a heartfelt plea nor is it spitting the fire of righteous indignation, but I've never heard the host of a late-night show, someone who just commercially is not supposed to be angering his audience, straight up saying the President needs to go. He eventually proposes making Trump the first King of America, so we can "set him up in a castle, maybe in Florida, lead him to the top, and then lock the door to that castle. Forever." Here's a transcript of the last few minutes if you prefer reading.
Watching it, I was nodding along like, yeah, yeah, you think the President needs to go, that's nice, so do lots of people, but I had to keep reminding myself this isn't a late night host joking about the President, not even one contemptuously mocking the President, but one just outright saying "nope, this guy can't be President anymore." That's pretty incredible.
posted by zachlipton at 10:48 PM on August 15, 2017 [70 favorites]
Watching it, I was nodding along like, yeah, yeah, you think the President needs to go, that's nice, so do lots of people, but I had to keep reminding myself this isn't a late night host joking about the President, not even one contemptuously mocking the President, but one just outright saying "nope, this guy can't be President anymore." That's pretty incredible.
posted by zachlipton at 10:48 PM on August 15, 2017 [70 favorites]
We all see you, so you may as well just stand up and say it out loud: "I fully support the racist policies of our beloved leader. For proof, just look at my voting record." What could it hurt? I mean, aren't you afraid of losing the white supremacist vote? Maybe you could subtly arrange to be photographed at some outdoor events around tiki torches. With the right messaging, I think you've got the racist vote locked up, so let your White flag fly, you.
... is what I'm typing here instead of to my Republican congressman, because I feel like anything I send to him will devolve into just swearing
posted by salix at 11:03 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
... is what I'm typing here instead of to my Republican congressman, because I feel like anything I send to him will devolve into just swearing
posted by salix at 11:03 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
Is Trump sleeping in his very own bed in Trump Tower tonight? Is he going to wake up and think for a glorious moment that it was all a bad dream, before he notices the Secret Service detail and reality comes crashing back in?
posted by contraption at 11:25 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by contraption at 11:25 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Room 101: "Weird. Trump just retweeted what I can only assume was a Russian bot and then deleted the retweet."
Has it ever been officially determined (not that the Cheeto would care but I'd mentally like to add it to his crimes) whether deleting tweets violates the presidential records act (or whatever it's called).
Autumnheart: "And here I thought Jubal Early was an operative for the Alliance."
"Anti Hommage" or bizarre accurate coincidence?
Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane: "Yeah it's pretty amazing that some billionaire CEOs were able to bail on Trump before the supposed core of the US labor unions did."
It's always an antagonizing decision as a union whether to sit at a table where you are being screwed in hope of limiting the screwing or walking away and losing whatever influence you might have had to reduce the depth of the screwing. I'm surprised actually that the AFL-CIO was invited in the first place.
dis_integration: "People who don't turn off the shutter sound on their smartphones are monsters."
Is this actually widely supported by default apps? I thought as an anti upskirting tactic phone cameras all make noise.
posted by Mitheral at 11:38 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
Has it ever been officially determined (not that the Cheeto would care but I'd mentally like to add it to his crimes) whether deleting tweets violates the presidential records act (or whatever it's called).
Autumnheart: "And here I thought Jubal Early was an operative for the Alliance."
"Anti Hommage" or bizarre accurate coincidence?
Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane: "Yeah it's pretty amazing that some billionaire CEOs were able to bail on Trump before the supposed core of the US labor unions did."
It's always an antagonizing decision as a union whether to sit at a table where you are being screwed in hope of limiting the screwing or walking away and losing whatever influence you might have had to reduce the depth of the screwing. I'm surprised actually that the AFL-CIO was invited in the first place.
dis_integration: "People who don't turn off the shutter sound on their smartphones are monsters."
Is this actually widely supported by default apps? I thought as an anti upskirting tactic phone cameras all make noise.
posted by Mitheral at 11:38 PM on August 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
Is this actually widely supported by default apps? I thought as an anti upskirting tactic phone cameras all make noise.This is at least required by law in Japan, but is not in the US to my knowledge, based on the fact that whenever I see friends or family who live in the US, they're always on my case to turn off the shutter sound on my phone despite the fact that I simply cannot.
(Live Photos at least make a much quieter sound, which I absolutely appreciate)
posted by DoctorFedora at 11:46 PM on August 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Hopefully then it sinks in.
Ron Howard Voice: It didn't. (Did I do that right?)
posted by christopherious at 11:56 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Ron Howard Voice: It didn't. (Did I do that right?)
posted by christopherious at 11:56 PM on August 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
all of us know tons of white people, many of whom we are close to - our friends, coworkers, family, people we share our living space with - who are fucking racist. And we want to comfort ourselves by distinguishing between the guy at work who says shitty things about "the Mexicans" in his neighborhood, and the goose-stepping morons out in the street. Because then we don't need to do anything. We can just think "Bob at work is an asshole" and carry on with our merry lives. We can still have Thanksgiving with our shitty racist Uncle. We can just roll our eyes when grandma says retrograde shit and think "She's from another generation."
I don't feel at all comforted by the idea that some racists go as far as goose-stepping demos in support of their contemptible ideology while others do not.
I carry on with my merry life while knowing that Bob at work is an asshole not because I'm comforted by that, but because I know full well that there is nothing - not one thing - I have the power to do that would make Bob less of an asshole.
I do the best I can, which is to run my interactions with Bob and Uncle and Grandma in ways that leave children watching those encounters in no doubt as to which of us is the asshole.
If you know of a more effective method, please do share.
posted by flabdablet at 12:15 AM on August 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
I don't feel at all comforted by the idea that some racists go as far as goose-stepping demos in support of their contemptible ideology while others do not.
I carry on with my merry life while knowing that Bob at work is an asshole not because I'm comforted by that, but because I know full well that there is nothing - not one thing - I have the power to do that would make Bob less of an asshole.
I do the best I can, which is to run my interactions with Bob and Uncle and Grandma in ways that leave children watching those encounters in no doubt as to which of us is the asshole.
If you know of a more effective method, please do share.
posted by flabdablet at 12:15 AM on August 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
Is this actually widely supported by default apps? I thought as an anti upskirting tactic phone cameras all make noise.
This is at least required by law in Japan, but is not in the US to my knowledge, based on the fact that whenever I see friends or family who live in the US, they're always on my case to turn off the shutter sound on my phone despite the fact that I simply cannot.
Huh, I'm running a dev version of the iOS that comes out in the fall, and I can't get my camera to make the shutter sound regardless of what I do. Perhaps we've removed it entirely. But my "country is set to US", so perhaps in Japan the sound still happens.
posted by sideshow at 12:19 AM on August 16, 2017
This is at least required by law in Japan, but is not in the US to my knowledge, based on the fact that whenever I see friends or family who live in the US, they're always on my case to turn off the shutter sound on my phone despite the fact that I simply cannot.
Huh, I'm running a dev version of the iOS that comes out in the fall, and I can't get my camera to make the shutter sound regardless of what I do. Perhaps we've removed it entirely. But my "country is set to US", so perhaps in Japan the sound still happens.
posted by sideshow at 12:19 AM on August 16, 2017
and I can't get my camera to make the shutter sound regardless of what I do.
In the US, it's probably off by default to protect the upskirt photographers. That seems par for the course lately.
posted by greermahoney at 12:29 AM on August 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
In the US, it's probably off by default to protect the upskirt photographers. That seems par for the course lately.
posted by greermahoney at 12:29 AM on August 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
I was appalled by the what went on over the weekend in Charlottesville, and also appalled by Trump's horrendous response to it. So, once again, another drawing, this time of the Baby Monster Trump. This is a way for me to not scream for 9 hours a day, and I find these threads very helpful, especially after seeing the cesspool that is social media these days.
Download, share, what have you, as per usual.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 12:34 AM on August 16, 2017 [30 favorites]
Download, share, what have you, as per usual.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 12:34 AM on August 16, 2017 [30 favorites]
I think the real genius of the Jimmy Kimmel monologue was analogizing voting for Trump to putting up Star Wars wallpaper in the kitchen. It de-escalates the whole 'good job you voted for somebody who will sully everything you hold dear' sentiment that I feel towards Trump voters. Which I know will not win hearts and minds. And still keeps the 'I made a horrible mistake' bit but it's oh gosh oh golly I'm just terrible with wall treatments that should be fixed.
I guess the problem is that impeachment/25th implementation is a little bit tougher than a sort of cute romp with wallpaper.
posted by angrycat at 12:39 AM on August 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
I guess the problem is that impeachment/25th implementation is a little bit tougher than a sort of cute romp with wallpaper.
posted by angrycat at 12:39 AM on August 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
Huh look at that, I no longer care about his tax returns.
We have few chances in life where we can take very clear moral stances. People need to choose now. If they hem and haw with a "we should stay united" they've chosen. This is beyond trying to absolve differences when the difference is between rejecting racism and supporting racism. It's that simple. It is THAT SIMPLE.
posted by like_neon at 12:39 AM on August 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
We have few chances in life where we can take very clear moral stances. People need to choose now. If they hem and haw with a "we should stay united" they've chosen. This is beyond trying to absolve differences when the difference is between rejecting racism and supporting racism. It's that simple. It is THAT SIMPLE.
posted by like_neon at 12:39 AM on August 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
I'm on a private alumni facebook group, where harsh discussion is implicitly but strongly discouraged. And there's one guy, the most voluble right-wing guy, who is a clever and nimble arguer but also clearly and consistently racist (via the usual dogwhistles).
You know, Charles Murray deserves full respect and debate for his pseudoscientific and long-debunked argument that African-Americans are mentally inferior, but Colin Kaepernick is "hateful and divisive" (as was Obama!) because he silently took a knee during the playing of a song.
This week, I was done. Just had to call the guy out on his racism. "Free speech rallies" are fine for Nazis, but a Black guy's understated Nope is hateful? No. You're racist. I'm not gonna dance around this any more, like every body else is. Fuck you.
posted by msalt at 1:08 AM on August 16, 2017 [73 favorites]
You know, Charles Murray deserves full respect and debate for his pseudoscientific and long-debunked argument that African-Americans are mentally inferior, but Colin Kaepernick is "hateful and divisive" (as was Obama!) because he silently took a knee during the playing of a song.
This week, I was done. Just had to call the guy out on his racism. "Free speech rallies" are fine for Nazis, but a Black guy's understated Nope is hateful? No. You're racist. I'm not gonna dance around this any more, like every body else is. Fuck you.
posted by msalt at 1:08 AM on August 16, 2017 [73 favorites]
I no longer care about his tax returns.
He's more likely to get impeached over his tax returns than for channeling Mr. Endicott [sorry if this spoils a 50-year-old movie]. I mean, it's not like I care about them simply out of prurience.
I wish more people understood the value of a pin. Even if "Trump/Russia" goes nowhere, it's already been quite damaging, has prevented bolder action on their part, and has absorbed time and energy the way a SLAPP lawsuit does for small entities. It's been useful even if it doesn't result in a single indictment (which I believe unlikely) or conviction (doubtful given pardon power), let alone impeachment. It's a form of pressure that now has a driver -- Mueller -- wholly outside the whipping winds of public favor, and seems to have no small influence on the Tweeter-in-Chief's habits. There is no one route to this man's undoing, and we must view them all as valuable.
posted by dhartung at 1:27 AM on August 16, 2017 [19 favorites]
He's more likely to get impeached over his tax returns than for channeling Mr. Endicott [sorry if this spoils a 50-year-old movie]. I mean, it's not like I care about them simply out of prurience.
I wish more people understood the value of a pin. Even if "Trump/Russia" goes nowhere, it's already been quite damaging, has prevented bolder action on their part, and has absorbed time and energy the way a SLAPP lawsuit does for small entities. It's been useful even if it doesn't result in a single indictment (which I believe unlikely) or conviction (doubtful given pardon power), let alone impeachment. It's a form of pressure that now has a driver -- Mueller -- wholly outside the whipping winds of public favor, and seems to have no small influence on the Tweeter-in-Chief's habits. There is no one route to this man's undoing, and we must view them all as valuable.
posted by dhartung at 1:27 AM on August 16, 2017 [19 favorites]
I had no idea Trump had tried to move into Australia: Trump's bid for Sydney casino 30 years ago rejected due to 'mafia connections’
Cabinet documents reveal police warned NSW government about approving a 1986-87 plan to build city’s first casino in Darling Harbour
posted by Joe in Australia at 1:32 AM on August 16, 2017 [24 favorites]
Cabinet documents reveal police warned NSW government about approving a 1986-87 plan to build city’s first casino in Darling Harbour
posted by Joe in Australia at 1:32 AM on August 16, 2017 [24 favorites]
Although, as per the Jimmy Kimmel bit, I wonder why he didn't attach some prescription for lawful behavior a la call your congressperson and urge impeachment. Maybe he had to leave it open-ended, but some asshole Fox person is going to call this incitement to riot or something.
posted by angrycat at 1:40 AM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by angrycat at 1:40 AM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
I greatly enjoyed deaf activist, dancer, model, and actor Nyle DiMarco's video tweet, where he uses ASL to communicate his message about Trump. The sign for Trump is amazing.
posted by xyzzy at 2:27 AM on August 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 2:27 AM on August 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
On the good side, Baltimore just removed four Confederate statues last night.
posted by rc3spencer at 3:40 AM on August 16, 2017 [59 favorites]
posted by rc3spencer at 3:40 AM on August 16, 2017 [59 favorites]
He's more likely to get impeached over his tax returns
"high crimes and misdemeanors" is so interesting that we often overlook that it comes after mention of bribery and treason
posted by thelonius at 3:57 AM on August 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
"high crimes and misdemeanors" is so interesting that we often overlook that it comes after mention of bribery and treason
posted by thelonius at 3:57 AM on August 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
Huh look at that, I no longer care about his tax returns.
I do. I care about all of it. Every single wretched thing the man has done, I have seen it all and I remember it all and I will remember it all and it is driving me to do what I can (as I have the energy, which is lacking these days) to bring the man down.
Because they are all of a piece. They are all just the symptoms of the root cause - and that this is a selfish, blinkered, spoilt, petty, vain, boor of a man who was born into privilege and knows only that, and cares only for himself. Every single thing he has done can be traced back to this fact. His taxes? Fuck you, they're his business, he doesn't have to show them to you if he doesn't want to. NAFTA? He knows how to fix it, fuck you. Charlottesville? He is going to say what he wanted to say and he will, dammit. His campaign? He was obviously better than any of the other jerks running and he just had to say so. His business deals? Who the fuck cares whether anyone gets screwed over, he just made a big pile of money.
Every single thing he does indicates he does not care about other people above and beyond questioning what they can do for him. Once he has exploited them he discards them. He has no interest in their motivations, their interests, their very humanity - he doesn't see them as people. He sees his constituency as a resource. He sees America as a toy.
I'm like Arya Stark over here, reciting my List of Signs By Which You Know Him. Everything he does, I add it to the list. And I care about all of it, and remember all of it, because I am on watch for whichever spot finally weakens so that we can get in and take him down.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:21 AM on August 16, 2017 [49 favorites]
I do. I care about all of it. Every single wretched thing the man has done, I have seen it all and I remember it all and I will remember it all and it is driving me to do what I can (as I have the energy, which is lacking these days) to bring the man down.
Because they are all of a piece. They are all just the symptoms of the root cause - and that this is a selfish, blinkered, spoilt, petty, vain, boor of a man who was born into privilege and knows only that, and cares only for himself. Every single thing he has done can be traced back to this fact. His taxes? Fuck you, they're his business, he doesn't have to show them to you if he doesn't want to. NAFTA? He knows how to fix it, fuck you. Charlottesville? He is going to say what he wanted to say and he will, dammit. His campaign? He was obviously better than any of the other jerks running and he just had to say so. His business deals? Who the fuck cares whether anyone gets screwed over, he just made a big pile of money.
Every single thing he does indicates he does not care about other people above and beyond questioning what they can do for him. Once he has exploited them he discards them. He has no interest in their motivations, their interests, their very humanity - he doesn't see them as people. He sees his constituency as a resource. He sees America as a toy.
I'm like Arya Stark over here, reciting my List of Signs By Which You Know Him. Everything he does, I add it to the list. And I care about all of it, and remember all of it, because I am on watch for whichever spot finally weakens so that we can get in and take him down.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:21 AM on August 16, 2017 [49 favorites]
Mod note: A couple deleted. Sorry folks we aren't going to have a knock-down-drag-out about "alt left," which as far as I can tell so far apparently means whatever anyone wants it to mean. These interminable threads WHICH ARE ALREADY BAD ENOUGH exist to discuss 45, the current administration, and events related to that, not to attack each other and tear down our own side(s). We aren't going to be led by the nose here, just because Trump and a bunch of Nazis want to go on about the "alt left." If you really want to do the bloody infighting thing, please find another place for that.
posted by taz (staff) at 4:22 AM on August 16, 2017 [57 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 4:22 AM on August 16, 2017 [57 favorites]
White House memo urges GOP to say Trump was "entirely correct"
posted by Rykey at 4:23 AM on August 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Rykey at 4:23 AM on August 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
Any counter-protester in black bloc costume but armed only with silly string and an attitude to match is AOK by me.
The resurgent hard right is a serious threat and absolutely does need to be treated as such, but that's because of its ability to organize its members into existing positions of power rather than into chanting and goose-stepping down the main street.
Public demonstrations like that are designed to communicate an impression of strength and recruit new sympathizers. If they're confronted head-on by violent counter-protest, then unless the counter-protest is clearly completely overwhelming, it always plays straight into the hands of the demo organizers. The media will always report conflict before anything else and violent conflict before any other kind, so that's all that most people will ever remember, or even find out, about what happened at any given demo.
The kind of mealy-mouthed both-sidesism we've just heard from the mouth of Il Douche always comes out after demonstrations at which any level of actual violence has been perpetrated by counter-protestors, and it never has any other consequence than causing everybody to harden their existing positions.
It's utterly disgusting and it's stupid and it's counterproductive, but railing against it won't change that because it's also 100% inherent in media coverage of demonstrations that attract counter-protestors. The media eye selects for conflict, and you can't have a conflict with less than two sides.
Effective counter-protest must take this into account, regardless of the correctness of its cause. If it fails to do so, all it will actually achieve is increased polarization amongst people already aware of the issues involved. It will do nothing useful to sway the opinion of those less informed; in fact, since at least some of those people will always end up buying in to the yes buts and the what abouts, it has a pretty consistent record of blowing back.
Counter-protest succeeds when it makes the demonstrators look even more ridiculous than they can manage on their own, not when it gives cynical media producers an opportunity to edit selectively for something they can present as evenly matched violence.
posted by flabdablet at 4:52 AM on August 16, 2017 [17 favorites]
The resurgent hard right is a serious threat and absolutely does need to be treated as such, but that's because of its ability to organize its members into existing positions of power rather than into chanting and goose-stepping down the main street.
Public demonstrations like that are designed to communicate an impression of strength and recruit new sympathizers. If they're confronted head-on by violent counter-protest, then unless the counter-protest is clearly completely overwhelming, it always plays straight into the hands of the demo organizers. The media will always report conflict before anything else and violent conflict before any other kind, so that's all that most people will ever remember, or even find out, about what happened at any given demo.
The kind of mealy-mouthed both-sidesism we've just heard from the mouth of Il Douche always comes out after demonstrations at which any level of actual violence has been perpetrated by counter-protestors, and it never has any other consequence than causing everybody to harden their existing positions.
It's utterly disgusting and it's stupid and it's counterproductive, but railing against it won't change that because it's also 100% inherent in media coverage of demonstrations that attract counter-protestors. The media eye selects for conflict, and you can't have a conflict with less than two sides.
Effective counter-protest must take this into account, regardless of the correctness of its cause. If it fails to do so, all it will actually achieve is increased polarization amongst people already aware of the issues involved. It will do nothing useful to sway the opinion of those less informed; in fact, since at least some of those people will always end up buying in to the yes buts and the what abouts, it has a pretty consistent record of blowing back.
Counter-protest succeeds when it makes the demonstrators look even more ridiculous than they can manage on their own, not when it gives cynical media producers an opportunity to edit selectively for something they can present as evenly matched violence.
posted by flabdablet at 4:52 AM on August 16, 2017 [17 favorites]
@baratunde
All this from Trump was not only predictable but actually predicted. None of this is surprising. Not one part.
- But it is depressing, infuriating, and disgusting. America is a complacent nation and a self-deceiving one. Our myth is being stress tested
- We denied our true history for all of our history. We chose avoidance over accountability and now we pay the price.
- The chickens are coming home to roost. And just remember, we could have chosen another path. To honor the slave and not the slaveholder...
- To remember the lynched instead of absolving and promoting the lynch mob. But we flee from history rather that face its hard truth
- We are broken. And afraid. And nowhere near healing. Because we don't know just how broken we are.
- This is bigger than Trump. It's about the environment we built which makes the American lie profitable and politically rewarding.
- You don't get people equating Black Lives Matter with the KKK without a profitable system in place to create that outcome. It's no accident
- You don't get a speaker of the house too mealy-mouthed to oppose explicit racism without a political system in place to crest that outcome
- You don't get an entire political party "smearing" a US president by calling him Muslim and African and paying zero price because of chance
- You don't get armed racist white militias roaming free while a black child playing with a toy gun gets executed by police without PLANNING
- We. Made. Choices. This system isn't destiny. It was DESIGNED THIS WAY. And tolerated by we the people. But we can make different choices
- We must make different choices or surrender to the tragic outcomes of our current system design. But making those choices is hard.
- Because we are now so invested in the lie. To challenge it is to challenge the very heart of America. END OF THREAD (for now)...
posted by chris24 at 4:56 AM on August 16, 2017 [81 favorites]
All this from Trump was not only predictable but actually predicted. None of this is surprising. Not one part.
- But it is depressing, infuriating, and disgusting. America is a complacent nation and a self-deceiving one. Our myth is being stress tested
- We denied our true history for all of our history. We chose avoidance over accountability and now we pay the price.
- The chickens are coming home to roost. And just remember, we could have chosen another path. To honor the slave and not the slaveholder...
- To remember the lynched instead of absolving and promoting the lynch mob. But we flee from history rather that face its hard truth
- We are broken. And afraid. And nowhere near healing. Because we don't know just how broken we are.
- This is bigger than Trump. It's about the environment we built which makes the American lie profitable and politically rewarding.
- You don't get people equating Black Lives Matter with the KKK without a profitable system in place to create that outcome. It's no accident
- You don't get a speaker of the house too mealy-mouthed to oppose explicit racism without a political system in place to crest that outcome
- You don't get an entire political party "smearing" a US president by calling him Muslim and African and paying zero price because of chance
- You don't get armed racist white militias roaming free while a black child playing with a toy gun gets executed by police without PLANNING
- We. Made. Choices. This system isn't destiny. It was DESIGNED THIS WAY. And tolerated by we the people. But we can make different choices
- We must make different choices or surrender to the tragic outcomes of our current system design. But making those choices is hard.
- Because we are now so invested in the lie. To challenge it is to challenge the very heart of America. END OF THREAD (for now)...
posted by chris24 at 4:56 AM on August 16, 2017 [81 favorites]
During the thirties, there were plenty of anti-fascists fighting the fascists in the street. What was missing were peaceful middle-class people ready to stand up for democracy, in the streets and in the voting booths.
What was wrong was conservatives who weren't anti-semites and bigots but who thought they could control the fascists. While I am optimistic about our generation's ability to deal with the situation now, we all really need to mobilize the middle class and to confront the non-fascist conservatives.
posted by mumimor at 5:10 AM on August 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
What was wrong was conservatives who weren't anti-semites and bigots but who thought they could control the fascists. While I am optimistic about our generation's ability to deal with the situation now, we all really need to mobilize the middle class and to confront the non-fascist conservatives.
posted by mumimor at 5:10 AM on August 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
Any counter-protester in black bloc costume but armed only with silly string and an attitude to match is AOK by me.
Effective counter-protest must take this into account, regardless of the correctness of its cause. If it fails to do so, all it will actually achieve is increased polarization amongst people already aware of the issues involved. It will do nothing useful to sway the opinion of those less informed; in fact, since at least some of those people will always end up buying in to the yes buts and the what abouts, it has a pretty consistent record of blowing back.
Counter-protest succeeds when it makes the demonstrators look even more ridiculous than they can manage on their own, not when it gives cynical media producers an opportunity to edit selectively for something they can present as evenly matched violence.
posted by flabdablet at 8:52 PM on August 16 [3 favorites +] [!]
ＴＨＩＳＴＨＩＳＴＨＩＳ
posted by saysthis at 5:10 AM on August 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
Effective counter-protest must take this into account, regardless of the correctness of its cause. If it fails to do so, all it will actually achieve is increased polarization amongst people already aware of the issues involved. It will do nothing useful to sway the opinion of those less informed; in fact, since at least some of those people will always end up buying in to the yes buts and the what abouts, it has a pretty consistent record of blowing back.
Counter-protest succeeds when it makes the demonstrators look even more ridiculous than they can manage on their own, not when it gives cynical media producers an opportunity to edit selectively for something they can present as evenly matched violence.
posted by flabdablet at 8:52 PM on August 16 [3 favorites +] [!]
ＴＨＩＳＴＨＩＳＴＨＩＳ
posted by saysthis at 5:10 AM on August 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
This is depressing me (I mean, everything is depressing me, but this is depressing me at this moment):
@yamiche:
Today feels like the day the Access Hollywood tape came out
Repubs yelling at Trump all over
Then time passed & Repubs went back to Trump
How is THIS TIME different? How can we finally unleash the beast of Shirley This?
posted by like_neon at 5:12 AM on August 16, 2017 [32 favorites]
@yamiche:
Today feels like the day the Access Hollywood tape came out
Repubs yelling at Trump all over
Then time passed & Repubs went back to Trump
How is THIS TIME different? How can we finally unleash the beast of Shirley This?
posted by like_neon at 5:12 AM on August 16, 2017 [32 favorites]
Any counter-protester in black bloc costume but armed only with silly string and an attitude to match is AOK by me.
You know, one thing that changed for me this time around was seeing all those heavily armed protesters laying into unarmed punk and activist kids - people in helmets, with sticks, wearing body armor, hitting people who have nothing to protect their heads or torsos, and a much, much shorter reach.
I've always been more or less on the "let's not bring the impedimenta, we're not good at it and the optics are terrible. And I've been .at the kind of protest where the nazis are seen off, and the kind of protest where I've been beaten about the torso with nightsticks.
I'm not going into that kind of protest without at least a bike helmet on my head and bike lock handy (I bike to protests and usually walk my bike anyway) and I'm definitely going to start eying other protective gear. I mean, I am simply not going to get in a situation where someone is coming at me with a metal pole and a helmet on his head, and I'm standing there in shorts and a t-shirt.
If the cops want to tell everyone that no poles, helmets, masks or shields, etc, are allowed and then enforce it, sure, fine, but if the other side is literally beating people in the head with metal poles, there is zero way that I feel good going in with nothing. They are going to beat someone to death - probably several someones - if this keeps up, and I would prefer it not be me.
Before everyone gets all "I do not like armed antifa", please try to imagine that you personally are getting up one morning knowing that you will be beaten by armed and armored thugs and the police will almost certainly stand idly by.
posted by Frowner at 5:12 AM on August 16, 2017 [63 favorites]
You know, one thing that changed for me this time around was seeing all those heavily armed protesters laying into unarmed punk and activist kids - people in helmets, with sticks, wearing body armor, hitting people who have nothing to protect their heads or torsos, and a much, much shorter reach.
I've always been more or less on the "let's not bring the impedimenta, we're not good at it and the optics are terrible. And I've been .at the kind of protest where the nazis are seen off, and the kind of protest where I've been beaten about the torso with nightsticks.
I'm not going into that kind of protest without at least a bike helmet on my head and bike lock handy (I bike to protests and usually walk my bike anyway) and I'm definitely going to start eying other protective gear. I mean, I am simply not going to get in a situation where someone is coming at me with a metal pole and a helmet on his head, and I'm standing there in shorts and a t-shirt.
If the cops want to tell everyone that no poles, helmets, masks or shields, etc, are allowed and then enforce it, sure, fine, but if the other side is literally beating people in the head with metal poles, there is zero way that I feel good going in with nothing. They are going to beat someone to death - probably several someones - if this keeps up, and I would prefer it not be me.
Before everyone gets all "I do not like armed antifa", please try to imagine that you personally are getting up one morning knowing that you will be beaten by armed and armored thugs and the police will almost certainly stand idly by.
posted by Frowner at 5:12 AM on August 16, 2017 [63 favorites]
we could have chosen another path
The majority of us did.
What is he suggesting we do now? Does this bring anyone into the fold with those of us who acknowledge and are trying to figure out ways to act on all these bullet points? Otherwise he's howling into the void with the rest of us.
"We could have chosen another path" feels like telling someone in a turned over car at the bottom of a ravine that they shoulda turned left back there.
No shit, now can you at least help me out of the wreck?
posted by aspersioncast at 5:15 AM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
The majority of us did.
What is he suggesting we do now? Does this bring anyone into the fold with those of us who acknowledge and are trying to figure out ways to act on all these bullet points? Otherwise he's howling into the void with the rest of us.
"We could have chosen another path" feels like telling someone in a turned over car at the bottom of a ravine that they shoulda turned left back there.
No shit, now can you at least help me out of the wreck?
posted by aspersioncast at 5:15 AM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
ＴＨＩＳＴＨＩＳＴＨＩＳ
posted by saysthis at 8:10 AM on 8/16
eponysterical
posted by chaoticgood at 5:16 AM on August 16, 2017 [79 favorites]
posted by saysthis at 8:10 AM on 8/16
eponysterical
posted by chaoticgood at 5:16 AM on August 16, 2017 [79 favorites]
@hankgreen
1/9 Note: When Trump says that there were lots of "fine people" at the alt-right rally, he means a very specific thing.
2/9 He's saying that there are ways to be a good, thoughtful, patriotic White Supremacist.
3/9 Very few of those people had Nazi flags, most of them just believe that America needs to be protected from non-whites.
4/9 And President Trump is sympathetic to that viewpoint, not only because it helped him win, but because that's what he is.
5/9 President Trump believes that white people and western culture are superior. He is a white supremacist.
6/9 The people who fly the Nazi flags, they're not the scary ones for me. It's the ones who have no idea that they're Nazis.
7/9 Good, thoughtful, patriotic White Supremacists, emboldened by or /created by/ the president pushing a simple message:
8/9 That white people are better, that it's OK to believe that white people are better, and that white people are under attack.
9/9 "Believing those things isn't being a Nazi!" they say, completely unaware that, in fact, that is /exactly/ what being a Nazi is.
posted by chris24 at 5:20 AM on August 16, 2017 [109 favorites]
1/9 Note: When Trump says that there were lots of "fine people" at the alt-right rally, he means a very specific thing.
2/9 He's saying that there are ways to be a good, thoughtful, patriotic White Supremacist.
3/9 Very few of those people had Nazi flags, most of them just believe that America needs to be protected from non-whites.
4/9 And President Trump is sympathetic to that viewpoint, not only because it helped him win, but because that's what he is.
5/9 President Trump believes that white people and western culture are superior. He is a white supremacist.
6/9 The people who fly the Nazi flags, they're not the scary ones for me. It's the ones who have no idea that they're Nazis.
7/9 Good, thoughtful, patriotic White Supremacists, emboldened by or /created by/ the president pushing a simple message:
8/9 That white people are better, that it's OK to believe that white people are better, and that white people are under attack.
9/9 "Believing those things isn't being a Nazi!" they say, completely unaware that, in fact, that is /exactly/ what being a Nazi is.
posted by chris24 at 5:20 AM on August 16, 2017 [109 favorites]
If the cops want to tell everyone that no poles, helmets, masks or shields, etc, are allowed and then enforce it, sure, fine, but if the other side is literally beating people in the head with metal poles, there is zero way that I feel good going in with nothing. They are going to beat someone to death - probably several someones - if this keeps up, and I would prefer it not be me.
I take your point, which serves to remind me yet again of how lucky I feel to live in a country with much less militaristic and somewhat better-run police forces than yours.
posted by flabdablet at 5:25 AM on August 16, 2017
I take your point, which serves to remind me yet again of how lucky I feel to live in a country with much less militaristic and somewhat better-run police forces than yours.
posted by flabdablet at 5:25 AM on August 16, 2017
ＴＨＩＳＴＨＩＳＴＨＩＳ
posted by saysthis at 8:10 AM on 8/16
eponysterical
posted by chaoticgood at 9:16 PM on August 16 [8 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]
Not to clutter up the thread, but every post I make, and this is the first time in more than a decade someone noticed. This is a special day.
posted by saysthis at 5:28 AM on August 16, 2017 [72 favorites]
posted by saysthis at 8:10 AM on 8/16
eponysterical
posted by chaoticgood at 9:16 PM on August 16 [8 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]
Not to clutter up the thread, but every post I make, and this is the first time in more than a decade someone noticed. This is a special day.
posted by saysthis at 5:28 AM on August 16, 2017 [72 favorites]
Any counter-protester in black bloc costume but armed only with silly string and an attitude to match is AOK by me.
Effective counter-protest must take this into account, regardless of the correctness of its cause. If it fails to do so, all it will actually achieve is increased polarization amongst people already aware of the issues involved. It will do nothing useful to sway the opinion of those less informed; in fact, since at least some of those people will always end up buying in to the yes buts and the what abouts, it has a pretty consistent record of blowing back.
Counter-protest succeeds when it makes the demonstrators look even more ridiculous than they can manage on their own, not when it gives cynical media producers an opportunity to edit selectively for something they can present as evenly matched violence.
posted by flabdablet at 8:52 PM on August 16 [3 favorites +] [!]
ＴＨＩＳＴＨＩＳＴＨＩＳ
One group spraying the string, one group making sure the string users gets re-supplied while getting the empties to another group acting as 'janitors' cleaning up the string AND getting trash mid-demonstration. Bonus if the clean up crew is sorting for recycling.
What's the tiki-torch shield and stick crew gonna do? Hit the 'janitors'? Knock over their dustbins?
posted by rough ashlar at 5:31 AM on August 16, 2017
Effective counter-protest must take this into account, regardless of the correctness of its cause. If it fails to do so, all it will actually achieve is increased polarization amongst people already aware of the issues involved. It will do nothing useful to sway the opinion of those less informed; in fact, since at least some of those people will always end up buying in to the yes buts and the what abouts, it has a pretty consistent record of blowing back.
Counter-protest succeeds when it makes the demonstrators look even more ridiculous than they can manage on their own, not when it gives cynical media producers an opportunity to edit selectively for something they can present as evenly matched violence.
posted by flabdablet at 8:52 PM on August 16 [3 favorites +] [!]
ＴＨＩＳＴＨＩＳＴＨＩＳ
One group spraying the string, one group making sure the string users gets re-supplied while getting the empties to another group acting as 'janitors' cleaning up the string AND getting trash mid-demonstration. Bonus if the clean up crew is sorting for recycling.
What's the tiki-torch shield and stick crew gonna do? Hit the 'janitors'? Knock over their dustbins?
posted by rough ashlar at 5:31 AM on August 16, 2017
What's the tiki-torch shield and stick crew gonna do?
They're going to inadvertently start a fire and burn one or more people because Silly String is flammable.
posted by mmoncur at 5:34 AM on August 16, 2017 [16 favorites]
They're going to inadvertently start a fire and burn one or more people because Silly String is flammable.
posted by mmoncur at 5:34 AM on August 16, 2017 [16 favorites]
What's the tiki-torch shield and stick crew gonna do? Hit the 'janitors'? Knock over their dustbins?
If they think that they can get away with it. Then yes they will.
The only thing stopping many of these folks is the threat of being arrested. If the cops step back then anything can happen.
Being filmed and photographed and then identified may be a deterent depending on where the person is in their social and family circle. But if the person circle, family and job are all sympathetic than that won't matter. Getting filmed would be bonus and give cred.
posted by Jalliah at 5:38 AM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
If they think that they can get away with it. Then yes they will.
The only thing stopping many of these folks is the threat of being arrested. If the cops step back then anything can happen.
Being filmed and photographed and then identified may be a deterent depending on where the person is in their social and family circle. But if the person circle, family and job are all sympathetic than that won't matter. Getting filmed would be bonus and give cred.
posted by Jalliah at 5:38 AM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
> What's the tiki-torch shield and stick crew gonna do? Hit the 'janitors'? Knock over their dustbins?
Yes. I mean, one of them rammed his car into a lot of people this past weekend. Of course some number of them would hit people who are cleaning things up and knock over trash cans. They hit a lot of weaponless people in Cville, and the president and much of the media excused them for it or pretended it didn't really happen like we all saw on recordings.
posted by rtha at 5:39 AM on August 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
Yes. I mean, one of them rammed his car into a lot of people this past weekend. Of course some number of them would hit people who are cleaning things up and knock over trash cans. They hit a lot of weaponless people in Cville, and the president and much of the media excused them for it or pretended it didn't really happen like we all saw on recordings.
posted by rtha at 5:39 AM on August 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
Sticks and shields and ninja costumes are really nothing compared to the protests in the 60s and 70s. Once we see cars overturned, buildings burned, rocks through authorities' windows, military gathering in bunkers in DC, improvised roadblocks, general strikes and national walkouts . . THEN we'll just be starting to get back to the power of protest that we've lost since the Nixon era.
posted by rc3spencer at 5:43 AM on August 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by rc3spencer at 5:43 AM on August 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
The media eye selects for conflict, and you can't have a conflict with less than two sides.
It reminds me vividly of the feeling I got as a kid on occasions where a bully would lay into me, I'd fight back in self defense, we'd both get sent to the office, and my parents would just give me the patronizing "it takes two to fight" talk because they didn't want to or weren't equipped to deal with the idea of bullies targeting their kid. Bullshit then and now.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:44 AM on August 16, 2017 [56 favorites]
It reminds me vividly of the feeling I got as a kid on occasions where a bully would lay into me, I'd fight back in self defense, we'd both get sent to the office, and my parents would just give me the patronizing "it takes two to fight" talk because they didn't want to or weren't equipped to deal with the idea of bullies targeting their kid. Bullshit then and now.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:44 AM on August 16, 2017 [56 favorites]
What's the tiki-torch shield and stick crew gonna do? Hit the 'janitors'? Knock over their dustbins?
Start fire, yes, yes
All of those are bad optics. Getting labeled a Nazi turns out to be bad optics. The trash left behind is bad optics. Thwarting the cleaning efforts is gonna be bad optics.
The Silly string is for show. The reaction by some is going to be "making a mess that isn't getting cleaned up". Have a plan in place to answer the negative so you are left with "but they didn't have a permit".
posted by rough ashlar at 5:49 AM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Start fire, yes, yes
All of those are bad optics. Getting labeled a Nazi turns out to be bad optics. The trash left behind is bad optics. Thwarting the cleaning efforts is gonna be bad optics.
The Silly string is for show. The reaction by some is going to be "making a mess that isn't getting cleaned up". Have a plan in place to answer the negative so you are left with "but they didn't have a permit".
posted by rough ashlar at 5:49 AM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
The whole thing is worth reading. A snippet:
Josh Marshall- TPM: The House Is On Fire – Accepting the Truth of the Trump Revolution
Josh Marshall- TPM: The House Is On Fire – Accepting the Truth of the Trump Revolution
There you have it. This is Trump, a man whose deepest political impulses are tied to racial grievance and a desire for revenge, a desire to place the deserving and white back at the top of the racial hierarchy. People get caught up on whether or not people are willing to call Trump a ‘racist’. Of course, he’s a racist. But that doesn’t tell us enough. Lots of people dislike blacks or Jews, don’t want to live near them, etc. But many, likely most with racist attitudes, do not embrace a politics driven by racial grievance. Trump’s politics are about racial grievance. It’s not latent or peripheral but rather central. That’s different and it’s worse. It is one of the few consistent themes in his politics going back many, many years.posted by chris24 at 5:50 AM on August 16, 2017 [63 favorites]
It is worth noting this other passage in the piece: “Mr. Trump prides himself on an unapologetic style he learned from his father, Fred Trump, a New York City housing developer, and Roy Cohn, a combative lawyer who served as an aide to Senator Joseph McCarthy in the 1950s.” Quite true. One might also add though that both men, from profoundly different backgrounds and life experiences, were dyed-in-the-wool racists.
The earlier passage from the Times tells us explicitly what should be clear from watching the consistency of Trump’s public actions. What we saw today is the real Trump. Most of White House ‘comms’ appears to be a matter of keeping this real Trump in check or at least served up in palatable morsels rather than all at once.
“A voluble articulation of opinions that the president had long expressed in private.”
We can infer what stands behind a person’s public statements if we’ve seen them enough, under different pressures and in different contexts. Trump’s repeated expressions of sympathy for racist activists, refusals to denounce racist activists, coddling and appointments of racist activists can only really mean one thing: that he instinctively sympathizes with them and indeed is one. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me 80 million times, I need to seriously consider what the fuck is wrong with me.
Again, there’s no reasonable, alternative explanation.
These are the people Trump is defending.
Charlotte Observer: ‘I'm glad that girl died’ during Virginia protest, says NC KKK leader
Charlotte Observer: ‘I'm glad that girl died’ during Virginia protest, says NC KKK leader
Monday night, Justin Moore, the Grand Dragon for the Loyal White Knights of Ku Klux Klan, said he was glad Heyer died in the attack.posted by chris24 at 5:57 AM on August 16, 2017 [41 favorites]
“I’m sorta glad that them people got hit and I’m glad that girl died,” Moore said in a voicemail to WBTV. “They were a bunch of Communists out there protesting against somebody’s freedom of speech, so it doesn’t bother me that they got hurt at all.”
“I think we’re going to see more stuff like this happening at white nationalist events,” Moore warned.
Haaretz: Netanyahu's Revenge: Silence and Sidestep on Nazis in Charlottesville
In truth, there should be nothing more straightforward for a prime minister of Israel than to condemn Nazism and overt, unvarnished explosions of anti-Semitism wherever and whenever they appear.posted by zombieflanders at 5:57 AM on August 16, 2017 [62 favorites]
But for three solid days, Netanyahu, Mr. Holocaust himself, who has something to say about just about everything, had nothing whatsoever to say about Nazis in Charlottesville. He posted about the death of the world's oldest man, he posted about his "week of works," he compared Israel's economy favorably with that of Venezuela.
And when, at long last, he decided to post something about Charlottesville, he and his staff managed to compose a tweet so mealy-mouthed, that it far surpassed Trump's outrageous original statement for sheer opacity and intentional lack of focus.
"Outraged by expressions of anti-Semitism, neo-Nazism and racism," Netanyahu tweeted, omitting any mention of where, whom, or when his message was directed at. "Everyone should oppose this hatred."
Here is the son of Benzion Netanyahu, who made it his mission to vociferously warn Americans of the dangers posed by the wartime Nazis, the coming of the Holocaust – and the perils posed by turning a blind eye, or speaking in terms too vague to be of any use to anyone.
Here is a man "who likes to say he's the Prime Minister of the Jewish people, not just the State of Israel."
Here is a man who cites the "lessons of the Holocaust" at every opportunity. Here is a man who is graphic and exacting when he says "Never Again" when he talks about Iran, Hizbollah, Hamas, ISIS, Al-Qaida, Palestinian Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini, and Israel's pre-1967 Green Line borders.
But with Nazis marching under the swastika in the heart of an American city, Benjamin Netanyahu can't manage to say Never Again now.
I don't use FB for personal stuff (just groups, but people I friended some people I know from various groups) but just looking at walls this morning... hoo boy. If you didn't believe before that a "nice white person" stance isn't racist, you need to read some of the shit I just saw. I've seen about five instances of threads that start with "Well, I just don't approve of violence on either side, but I'm not a Nazi" and somehow end with that same person saying things like "if Black people were in charge, we'd be in the stone age." I really really should not be surprised and yet every single time I have a split-second moment of "omfg what?"
(Though I did see one instance of white people coming to collect one of theirs that actually ended in an educational moment. So that was good, I guess. But jesus.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:01 AM on August 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
(Though I did see one instance of white people coming to collect one of theirs that actually ended in an educational moment. So that was good, I guess. But jesus.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:01 AM on August 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
twitter in the morning:
Trump praises North Korea for backing off plan to fire missiles toward Guam, Rebecca Morin, Politico
Trump praises North Korea for backing off plan to fire missiles toward Guam, Rebecca Morin, Politico
"Kim Jong Un of North Korea made a very wise and well reasoned decision. The alternative would have been both catastrophic and unacceptable!" the president wrote on Twitter.posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 6:02 AM on August 16, 2017
twitter in the morning:
Trump praises North Korea for backing off plan to fire missiles toward Guam, Rebecca Morin, Politico
"Kim Jong Un of North Korea made a very wise and well reasoned decision. The alternative would have been both catastrophic and unacceptable!" the president wrote on Twitter.
He had help writing that one.
posted by Jalliah at 6:08 AM on August 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
Trump praises North Korea for backing off plan to fire missiles toward Guam, Rebecca Morin, Politico
"Kim Jong Un of North Korea made a very wise and well reasoned decision. The alternative would have been both catastrophic and unacceptable!" the president wrote on Twitter.
He had help writing that one.
posted by Jalliah at 6:08 AM on August 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
I just really hate Tr*mp and everything he stands for. He is fucking up everything and on top of it all he's just so excruciating to listen to. He makes me physically ill.
posted by h00py at 6:09 AM on August 16, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by h00py at 6:09 AM on August 16, 2017 [16 favorites]
Mod note: Folks, I know things are are twisted up altogether, but if you are mostly discussing the events of Charlottesville and directly related, it would be better to post in the dedicated thread so we don't have hundreds of responses to that pushing everything else out of this thread and burying any other news. I understand that's it's not totally clear, but just keep it in mind. Thanks.
posted by taz (staff) at 6:10 AM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 6:10 AM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
Theresa May attacks Donald Trump over refusal to condemn white supremacists
"I absolutely abhor the racism, the hatred and the violence that we have seen portrayed by these groups. I see no equivalence between those who propound fascist views and those who oppose them. I think it is important for all those in positions of responsibility to condemn far right views wherever we hear them."
posted by chris24 at 6:13 AM on August 16, 2017 [14 favorites]
"I absolutely abhor the racism, the hatred and the violence that we have seen portrayed by these groups. I see no equivalence between those who propound fascist views and those who oppose them. I think it is important for all those in positions of responsibility to condemn far right views wherever we hear them."
posted by chris24 at 6:13 AM on August 16, 2017 [14 favorites]
Looks like someone isn't getting that gold carriage state visit....
posted by PenDevil at 6:18 AM on August 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 6:18 AM on August 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
Theresa May attacks Donald Trump over refusal to condemn white supremacists
Wow. And her career goal has always basically been "destroy all human rights".
posted by Artw at 6:20 AM on August 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
Wow. And her career goal has always basically been "destroy all human rights".
posted by Artw at 6:20 AM on August 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
The Army Chief of Staff, General Mark Milley, has joined the Marine Commandant in subtweeting the president.
@ArmyChiefStaff
The Army doesn't tolerate racism, extremism, or hatred in our ranks. It's against our Values and everything we've stood for since 1775.
And if you missed the Marine tweet:
@GenRobertNeller
No place for racial hatred or extremism in @USMC. Our core values of Honor, Courage, and Commitment frame the way Marines live and act.
posted by chris24 at 6:22 AM on August 16, 2017 [46 favorites]
@ArmyChiefStaff
The Army doesn't tolerate racism, extremism, or hatred in our ranks. It's against our Values and everything we've stood for since 1775.
And if you missed the Marine tweet:
@GenRobertNeller
No place for racial hatred or extremism in @USMC. Our core values of Honor, Courage, and Commitment frame the way Marines live and act.
posted by chris24 at 6:22 AM on August 16, 2017 [46 favorites]
Yeah but softly, softly monkey. All this stomping around just blurting out any old shit is totally gauche.
posted by h00py at 6:23 AM on August 16, 2017
posted by h00py at 6:23 AM on August 16, 2017
Theresa May attacks Donald Trump over refusal to condemn white supremacists
She took her time, dithering about it being none of our business, and even now she's careful to avoid saying anything that unequivocally takes him to task. Though, now that we've burned our bridges with the liberal world, it's the best we can afford to do.
posted by acb at 6:26 AM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
She took her time, dithering about it being none of our business, and even now she's careful to avoid saying anything that unequivocally takes him to task. Though, now that we've burned our bridges with the liberal world, it's the best we can afford to do.
posted by acb at 6:26 AM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
This is who they are:
Bloomberg: "While some on the White House staff were alarmed by the fallout from the president’s remarks Tuesday, others said they blamed the media for overblown coverage. A source close to Stephen Bannon, the president’s chief strategist, said he was proud of the president’s performance Tuesday."
@maggieNYT
Trump, meanwhile, was in a very good mood last night post-press conference. Felt liberated after doing what he wanted, per sources
posted by chris24 at 6:34 AM on August 16, 2017 [36 favorites]
Bloomberg: "While some on the White House staff were alarmed by the fallout from the president’s remarks Tuesday, others said they blamed the media for overblown coverage. A source close to Stephen Bannon, the president’s chief strategist, said he was proud of the president’s performance Tuesday."
@maggieNYT
Trump, meanwhile, was in a very good mood last night post-press conference. Felt liberated after doing what he wanted, per sources
posted by chris24 at 6:34 AM on August 16, 2017 [36 favorites]
Well, that's the most important thing.
posted by notyou at 6:37 AM on August 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by notyou at 6:37 AM on August 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
A state visit now would be like having Hitler riding in a carriage through London in 1933. It's not acceptable. I can't help but think it would put the UK in an even worse light regarding the Brexit negotiations, if that is possible.
posted by mumimor at 6:38 AM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by mumimor at 6:38 AM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
That's it! Liberate him!
"The people love you Mr. Trump, and have decided to set you free. Sign here."
posted by quinndexter at 6:40 AM on August 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
"The people love you Mr. Trump, and have decided to set you free. Sign here."
posted by quinndexter at 6:40 AM on August 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
Sociopaths - the lot of them. The media needs to own their responsibility in all this. The GOP needs to own their responsibility in all this. The Dems need to step up and refuse to work with him and work behind the scenes to get the GOP to invoke the 25th amendment.
posted by kokaku at 6:40 AM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by kokaku at 6:40 AM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
Theresa May attacks Donald Trump over refusal to condemn white supremacists
She doesn't call out Trump by name or specifically reference Charlottesville—and she waited until after yesterday's shitshow presented unignorable proof of Trump's extremism. That's pretty weak tea.
Let's see how she addresses renewed calls to cancel Trump's state visit that was rescheduled to next year.
@maggieNYT
Trump, meanwhile, was in a very good mood last night post-press conference. Felt liberated after doing what he wanted, per sources
This is always the pattern: Trump is attacked, suffering narcissistic injury, and lashes out. When everyone is in chaos following his outburst, he receives a certain catharsis from it. This will happen again, and as the stakes get higher, he will become more dangerous.
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:42 AM on August 16, 2017 [63 favorites]
She doesn't call out Trump by name or specifically reference Charlottesville—and she waited until after yesterday's shitshow presented unignorable proof of Trump's extremism. That's pretty weak tea.
Let's see how she addresses renewed calls to cancel Trump's state visit that was rescheduled to next year.
@maggieNYT
Trump, meanwhile, was in a very good mood last night post-press conference. Felt liberated after doing what he wanted, per sources
This is always the pattern: Trump is attacked, suffering narcissistic injury, and lashes out. When everyone is in chaos following his outburst, he receives a certain catharsis from it. This will happen again, and as the stakes get higher, he will become more dangerous.
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:42 AM on August 16, 2017 [63 favorites]
That's easy to say when you aren't the one trying to maintain professional and personal ethics.
The approach in journalism of never expressing an opinion or being visible as a member of society who has opinions about how things should be is by no means a universal one. There are plenty of people who think it's a foolish and counterproductive cause and that there are better ways to be a reliable reporter. The most prominent is probably Jay Rosen and he's been talking about it for fifteen years, calling it the view from nowhere. Anyone here who has ever decried media and government both-sides-isms should consider how supporting this as a journalistic way of being necessitates that. Don't vote or talk about politics or be a human in public is the conjoined twin of both-sides-ism.
From this interview:
The approach in journalism of never expressing an opinion or being visible as a member of society who has opinions about how things should be is by no means a universal one. There are plenty of people who think it's a foolish and counterproductive cause and that there are better ways to be a reliable reporter. The most prominent is probably Jay Rosen and he's been talking about it for fifteen years, calling it the view from nowhere. Anyone here who has ever decried media and government both-sides-isms should consider how supporting this as a journalistic way of being necessitates that. Don't vote or talk about politics or be a human in public is the conjoined twin of both-sides-ism.
From this interview:
In pro journalism, American style, the View from Nowhere is a bid for trust that advertises the viewlessness of the news producer. Frequently it places the journalist between polarized extremes, and calls that neither-nor position “impartial.” Second, it’s a means of defense against a style of criticism that is fully anticipated: charges of bias originating in partisan politics and the two-party system. Third: it’s an attempt to secure a kind of universal legitimacy that is implicitly denied to those who stake out positions or betray a point of view. American journalists have almost a lust for the View from Nowhere because they think it has more authority than any other possible stance.posted by phearlez at 6:42 AM on August 16, 2017 [20 favorites]
The founder and Dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center, everybody:
posted by zombieflanders at 6:43 AM on August 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
On New Day, Rabbi Marvin Hier, Trump's inauguration rabbi, says comments yesterday takes away from some of the good things Trump has doneThe same reporter also noted that Hier told him that one of the "good things" is what's happened with North Korea.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:43 AM on August 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
The emails, postcards, and faxes I sent this morning enabled me to articulate my thoughts clearly but the phone calls were actually the most satisfying because I allowed my anger to show. I barely kept myself under control as I told Burr and Tillis (through their voice mail) that it was past time to get rid of the Nazi sympathizer in the Oval Office. I believe I used the term "get your thumb out of your asses" in order to show my impatience for their lack of action. They can spout off all the words they want but if they continue to show tolerance for the Nazi lovers in the Executive Branch then we, the constituents, must show our extreme displeasure.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:45 AM on August 16, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:45 AM on August 16, 2017 [17 favorites]
Montreal, of all places, just removed a Confederate memorial. Those damn things are everywhere.
posted by fimbulvetr at 6:46 AM on August 16, 2017 [38 favorites]
posted by fimbulvetr at 6:46 AM on August 16, 2017 [38 favorites]
Montreal!!
Somebody please check that we haven't placed a Confederate memorial on the moon.
posted by notyou at 6:53 AM on August 16, 2017 [40 favorites]
Somebody please check that we haven't placed a Confederate memorial on the moon.
posted by notyou at 6:53 AM on August 16, 2017 [40 favorites]
I'm starting to wonder if I don't have a confederate memorial out on the patio or something. Damn things are like mushrooms after rain.
posted by um at 6:56 AM on August 16, 2017 [52 favorites]
posted by um at 6:56 AM on August 16, 2017 [52 favorites]
i would love to have a confederate memorial in my apartment but i'm worried that it might not flush right
posted by pyramid termite at 6:57 AM on August 16, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 6:57 AM on August 16, 2017 [26 favorites]
Sing Or Swim: There is no such thing as a peaceful gathering of Nazis.
"Groups that advocate violence shouldn't be issued permits," said Fraternal Order of Police National President Chuck Canterbury, talking about "neo-Nazis, KKK, and anybody advocating violence." The comment was an indirect response to the question do Trump's comments putting equal blame on Nazis and anti-hate groups make it more difficult and exacerbate tensions at rallies? (NPR, Aug. 16, 2017 - audio only at the moment, transcript to come later today)
This would be an interesting tactic. "You are free to congregate, and you are permitted to openly carry weapons, but you cannot openly carry weapons and congregate, because that does not imply a peaceful gathering." Yeah, we'd get to lawsuits, but I think that giving current tensions, that's not such a hard case to make.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:06 AM on August 16, 2017 [41 favorites]
"Groups that advocate violence shouldn't be issued permits," said Fraternal Order of Police National President Chuck Canterbury, talking about "neo-Nazis, KKK, and anybody advocating violence." The comment was an indirect response to the question do Trump's comments putting equal blame on Nazis and anti-hate groups make it more difficult and exacerbate tensions at rallies? (NPR, Aug. 16, 2017 - audio only at the moment, transcript to come later today)
This would be an interesting tactic. "You are free to congregate, and you are permitted to openly carry weapons, but you cannot openly carry weapons and congregate, because that does not imply a peaceful gathering." Yeah, we'd get to lawsuits, but I think that giving current tensions, that's not such a hard case to make.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:06 AM on August 16, 2017 [41 favorites]
supercrayon: Does someone say racist shit, think racist shit, or do racist shit? Then they are racist. That is the only criteria. That is what racism is. We need to stop continuously atomizing racism to make it okay for the people we care about. It's not okay. Ever. In any context. Even at work. Even at Thanksgiving. Even if it's grandma. White people need to harden the fuck up and start deciding where the line is drawn. Because our need for comfort is literally killing people in America.
"Casual" racism breeds, supports and normalizes violent racism.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:11 AM on August 16, 2017 [22 favorites]
"Casual" racism breeds, supports and normalizes violent racism.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:11 AM on August 16, 2017 [22 favorites]
GDoc: Syllabus for White People to Educate Themselves
posted by zarq at 7:14 AM on August 16, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by zarq at 7:14 AM on August 16, 2017 [14 favorites]
Heartily recommending 13th. "An in-depth look at the prison system in the United States and how it reveals the nation's history of racial inequality". As a non-American with considerable experience of living there, it was an eye-opener to me. I suspect it will be even more enlightening to those who have never encountered de-facto segregation, prisons-for-profit, etc.
posted by stonepharisee at 7:15 AM on August 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by stonepharisee at 7:15 AM on August 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
James Hohmann with Breanne Deppisch and Joanie Greve/WaPo: (emphasis theirs)
The Daily 202: False moral equivalency is not a bug of Trumpism. It’s a feature.
The Daily 202: False moral equivalency is not a bug of Trumpism. It’s a feature.
One of the many ironies in all this is that conservatives have spent decades accusing liberals of believing in the kind of both-sides-ism that Trump now routinely espouses.posted by ZeusHumms at 7:15 AM on August 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
...
“The president’s rhetorical ricochet … seemed almost perfectly designed to highlight some basic truths about Donald Trump,” observes Marc Fisher, who co-authored The Post’s “Trump Revealed” biography last year. “He does not like to be told what to say. He will always find a way to pull the conversation back to himself. And he is preternaturally inclined to dance with the ones who brought him …Trump said Tuesday that Saturday’s confrontation ‘was a horrible day.’ And he made clear again that ‘the driver of the car’ that plowed into pedestrians in Charlottesville ‘is a disgrace to himself, his family and this country.’ But then the president turned to one of his favorite rhetorical tools, using casual language to strip away any definite blame, any clear moral stand, and instead send the message that nothing is certain, that everything is negotiable, that ethics are always situational. ‘You can call it terrorism,’ he said. ‘You can call it murder. You can call it whatever you want.’”
We’ve become sort of numb to Trump’s rhetoric since he rode down the escalator at Trump Tower 26 months ago and declared that Mexican immigrants are rapists, but we cannot lose perspective of just how shocking it is that an American president said what he did yesterday. This is one of the most surreal moments of Trump’s surreal presidency.
...
Doubling down: The White House press office last night distributed these suggested talking points to friendly surrogates: “The President was entirely correct — both sides of the violence in Charlottesville acted inappropriately, and bear some responsibility. ... We should not overlook the facts just because the media finds them inconvenient: From cop killing and violence at political rallies, to shooting at Congressmen at a practice baseball game, extremists on the left have engaged in terrible acts of violence.” (The Atlantic’s Molly Ball posted the full document.)
I keep thinking about this 'both sides' nonsense.
Nevermind the obvious facts of the situation -- there's something deeper that bothers me. It goes back to being a kid, when you would have to resort to some authority figure to settle a dispute about whatever. A teacher, principal, parent. You would say your side, and the other kid would say his side, and then you would both be dismissed by the authority figure saying that 'you're both wrong/silly/whatever', and they would refuse to take one side over the other.
And it was a complete denial of justice. There was no decision. Neither one of you was right and the other wrong, and usually you didn't even get heard.
The authority figure didn't want to get involved, didn't want the mess, so they'd just throw up their hands and declare everybody wrong. But in refusing to decide, they abrogated their own authority. They didn't hold the same power after. They wanted to be in charge but not have to do the work of being in charge.
Maybe there were good reasons for some of that back then, but at the time, the injustice was clear. There was something deeply wrong about that non-resolution.
For Donald to say that 'both sides' did bad things -- it goes right back into that. It denies the facts. It denies justice. It denies an opportunity to be heard. And it's all because the person who has authority doesn't want the mess of actually exercising it.
And that's the end of that person being in charge.
posted by Capt. Renault at 7:26 AM on August 16, 2017 [39 favorites]
Nevermind the obvious facts of the situation -- there's something deeper that bothers me. It goes back to being a kid, when you would have to resort to some authority figure to settle a dispute about whatever. A teacher, principal, parent. You would say your side, and the other kid would say his side, and then you would both be dismissed by the authority figure saying that 'you're both wrong/silly/whatever', and they would refuse to take one side over the other.
And it was a complete denial of justice. There was no decision. Neither one of you was right and the other wrong, and usually you didn't even get heard.
The authority figure didn't want to get involved, didn't want the mess, so they'd just throw up their hands and declare everybody wrong. But in refusing to decide, they abrogated their own authority. They didn't hold the same power after. They wanted to be in charge but not have to do the work of being in charge.
Maybe there were good reasons for some of that back then, but at the time, the injustice was clear. There was something deeply wrong about that non-resolution.
For Donald to say that 'both sides' did bad things -- it goes right back into that. It denies the facts. It denies justice. It denies an opportunity to be heard. And it's all because the person who has authority doesn't want the mess of actually exercising it.
And that's the end of that person being in charge.
posted by Capt. Renault at 7:26 AM on August 16, 2017 [39 favorites]
Rabbi Marvin Hier is a Trump apologist.
The statement the Center issued after Charlottesville included strong condemnations of the alt-right from Hier. But he consistently makes excuses for Trump.
posted by zarq at 7:26 AM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
The statement the Center issued after Charlottesville included strong condemnations of the alt-right from Hier. But he consistently makes excuses for Trump.
posted by zarq at 7:26 AM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
And it's all because the person who has authority doesn't want the mess of actually exercising it.
No.
He's exercising his authority. That much is quite clear.
He has chosen to refuse to condemn actual Nazis. To excuse their hatred. To dismiss their attacks on unarmed Americans. To explain away the murder of an unarmed American by Nazi terrorists.
With the power of the Presidency behind him, Trump is normalizing white nationalism.
posted by zarq at 7:30 AM on August 16, 2017 [28 favorites]
No.
He's exercising his authority. That much is quite clear.
He has chosen to refuse to condemn actual Nazis. To excuse their hatred. To dismiss their attacks on unarmed Americans. To explain away the murder of an unarmed American by Nazi terrorists.
With the power of the Presidency behind him, Trump is normalizing white nationalism.
posted by zarq at 7:30 AM on August 16, 2017 [28 favorites]
And frankly, not a damned thing the man has done in 70+ years indicates he is "mess" averse.
posted by zarq at 7:33 AM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by zarq at 7:33 AM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
Poll: More think Trump supports white nationalism than opposes it (The Hill)
The survey was largely conducted after Trump's comments on Charlottesville Monday but before his defiant press conference Tuesday.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 7:36 AM on August 16, 2017 [13 favorites]
The survey was largely conducted after Trump's comments on Charlottesville Monday but before his defiant press conference Tuesday.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 7:36 AM on August 16, 2017 [13 favorites]
Marcy Wheeler: Senate Judiciary Committee Republicans Have No Excuse for Not Doing Something about White Supremacist Violence
There are 20 members of the Senate Judiciary Committee, 11 Republicans and 9 Democrats. Of the Republicans, eight have made statements at least condemning the violence in Charlottesville, even if Cornyn and Kennedy, among others, are obviously issuing empty condemnations.posted by tonycpsu at 7:40 AM on August 16, 2017 [64 favorites]
If even two of the Republicans who’ve made statements condemning the right wing violence in Charlottesville are serious — or more specifically serious about actions that DOJ must take, as in comments that both Lindsey and Cruz made — then they’ve got the numbers to make it happen.
They’ve got the numbers to force DOJ to refund the Life After Hate program, which white supremacist Seb Gorka’s wife Katherine defunded. They’ve got the numbers to ask Jefferson Beauregard Sessions whether his DOJ will treat this act of terrorism as terrorism. They’ve got the numbers to ask whether FBI ignored warnings of surging white supremacism.
Republicans often complain that there’s nothing they can do about their unmanageable President. This is one case where that’s patently false.
Some friends organized and had a Confederate plaque removed from Hollywood Forever Cemetery last night!
No telling why the fuck there was a confederate plaque gracing the Hollywood Forever Cemetery in the middle of L.A. in the first place, but it's gone now.
posted by Sophie1 at 7:46 AM on August 16, 2017 [37 favorites]
No telling why the fuck there was a confederate plaque gracing the Hollywood Forever Cemetery in the middle of L.A. in the first place, but it's gone now.
posted by Sophie1 at 7:46 AM on August 16, 2017 [37 favorites]
Trump lawyer posts slew of photos of himself with black people — hoping to prove he’s not racist (Brad Reed, Raw Story)
posted by Room 641-A at 7:54 AM on August 16, 2017 [59 favorites]
In the wake of President Trump’s remarks that some “very fine people” attended last week’s white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, Cohen took to Twitter to insist that he is personally not a racist, despite his continued support for the president.I'm running out of shandas.
“As the son of a holocaust survivor, I have no tolerance for racism,” Cohen explained. “Just because I support President Trump doesn’t make me a racist.”
To prove his point, Cohen also posted several photos of himself with black people.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:54 AM on August 16, 2017 [59 favorites]
Funny how not a single one of these Republican statements condemning bigotry, racism, Neo-Nazis and white supremacy ends with "...and therefore, this man is unfit for office". Must be some kind of copy-editing glitch.
posted by Crane Shot at 7:54 AM on August 16, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by Crane Shot at 7:54 AM on August 16, 2017 [21 favorites]
Racism is a power dynamic, it cannot have two sides.
posted by AlexiaSky at 7:58 AM on August 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by AlexiaSky at 7:58 AM on August 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
I'm running out of shandas.
Laughing out loud, Room 641-A. Thank you.
posted by Sophie1 at 7:59 AM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
Laughing out loud, Room 641-A. Thank you.
posted by Sophie1 at 7:59 AM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
As far as I know, there aren't any confederate plaques or memorials here in Pittsburgh. Looks like the Daughters of the Confederacy tried to put a plaque on the site of a prison in my neighborhood that had 118 confederate prisoners during the war but it wasn't erected as far as I know. I might walk around this evening to see if it's there.
posted by octothorpe at 7:59 AM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 7:59 AM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
For Donald to say that 'both sides' did bad things -- it goes right back into that. It denies the facts. It denies justice. It denies an opportunity to be heard. And it's all because the person who has authority doesn't want the mess of actually exercising it.
I've been watching Memory of Justice, on and off, since it was recommended here, and this strikes me as an accurate description of the cowardly 50% (or so) -- not the active, passionate, avowed Nazis, of whom Trump is definitely one, but the people who just went along being effective little cogs in the machine while convincing themselves that the genocide wasn't really their problem. Just following orders. Both sides. Not wanting to get involved.
The avowed, gleeful Nazis are beyond reaching. It's this squishy middle we have to go after.
We have to win the media war for the minds of these people, the one going on right now. Or the cowardly 50% will allow us all to be dragged into hell.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:02 AM on August 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
I've been watching Memory of Justice, on and off, since it was recommended here, and this strikes me as an accurate description of the cowardly 50% (or so) -- not the active, passionate, avowed Nazis, of whom Trump is definitely one, but the people who just went along being effective little cogs in the machine while convincing themselves that the genocide wasn't really their problem. Just following orders. Both sides. Not wanting to get involved.
The avowed, gleeful Nazis are beyond reaching. It's this squishy middle we have to go after.
We have to win the media war for the minds of these people, the one going on right now. Or the cowardly 50% will allow us all to be dragged into hell.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:02 AM on August 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
Donald Trump's Charlottesville Press Conference Has Roots in Fox News and Twitter (Ashley Feinberg for Wired, Aug. 15, 2017)
posted by filthy light thief at 8:06 AM on August 16, 2017 [18 favorites]
Trump notoriously picks up proclamations from either Twitter or his cable news habit, of which Fox News plays a significant role. That Trump's divisive comments Tuesday appear to stem from sources with a national audience suggests that they shouldn’t have come as a complete surprise—and that the white supremacists marching through Virginia this past weekend have far more apologists than one might have assumed.Including citations of Greta Van Susteran, Newt Gingrich, Ann Coulter, the Drudge Report and lots of Fox News. Only the greatest minds.
To help you get a glimpse of how Trump's Nazi-friendly statements formed, here are his more salient points, traced to the likely source.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:06 AM on August 16, 2017 [18 favorites]
Look, the two headed monster was not driving the car. One, white supremacist, male with a history of violence drove a car into a crowd. But the administration is offering Hope, Hicks.
posted by Oyéah at 8:07 AM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 8:07 AM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Not to derail from the very important issue of actual fucking nazis roaming the streets, but...
NAFTA update: Canadian minister of Foreign Affairs - who speaks five languages - forced to negotiate with US government emissary acting on behalf of a POTUS who can hardly speak one:
Freeland delivered her remarks in not only French and English but Spanish.
It's pretty standard for remarks to be given in both English and French by a minister of the sitting government (if they're bilingual) - and it makes sense that she's making the remarks in Spanish since she speaks it as well.
But you can't tell me she's not trolling just a wee bit there.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:13 AM on August 16, 2017 [37 favorites]
NAFTA update: Canadian minister of Foreign Affairs - who speaks five languages - forced to negotiate with US government emissary acting on behalf of a POTUS who can hardly speak one:
Freeland delivered her remarks in not only French and English but Spanish.
It's pretty standard for remarks to be given in both English and French by a minister of the sitting government (if they're bilingual) - and it makes sense that she's making the remarks in Spanish since she speaks it as well.
But you can't tell me she's not trolling just a wee bit there.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:13 AM on August 16, 2017 [37 favorites]
> Trump notoriously picks up proclamations from either Twitter or his cable news habit, of which Fox News plays a significant role.
So let's bribe a couple of staffers to change the channel on Trump's TV to MSNBC and print out a little Fox News icon to glue to the bottom of the screen, and see what happens.
posted by Old Kentucky Shark at 8:14 AM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
So let's bribe a couple of staffers to change the channel on Trump's TV to MSNBC and print out a little Fox News icon to glue to the bottom of the screen, and see what happens.
posted by Old Kentucky Shark at 8:14 AM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
"Where are all my angry, white friends? Why does everyone hate me on TV?"
More angry tweets and proclamations out of the blue, that's what would happen.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:16 AM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
More angry tweets and proclamations out of the blue, that's what would happen.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:16 AM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Talking about the good things that Trump has done, is hyperbole. The one good thing Trump is done, is sleep, whenever he sleeps, he serves the planet and the US. At no other time is he of value to anyone. If you put a meter on what it costs for him to sleep, it would astonish.
posted by Oyéah at 8:16 AM on August 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 8:16 AM on August 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
Trump notoriously picks up proclamations from either Twitter or his cable news habit, of which Fox News plays a significant role.
I would really like to know which clips of clashes from the protests Fox News chose to show. (I'm sure they tried hard to make the counter protesters look bad.) When Trump says "charged in", I imagine that it's based on something visual, although he could be quoting or paraphrasing a commentator. I keep thinking I can counter him with truth and he will vanish in a puff of illogic, but it's not quite happening.
I did see one blonde regular on Fox's the Five condemn Trump's Nazi hugging yesterday. A tiny glimmer of decency. (I don't know the names of all five.)
Most dumb-ass thing I peeked at on Fox yesterday was Tucker Carlson. He indignantly built a lousy moral equivalency between recent events and the 150th anniversary of the surrender at Appamattox at which time he said us evil leftists threatened to desecrate Confederate graves. I had to change the channel.
posted by puddledork at 8:22 AM on August 16, 2017
I would really like to know which clips of clashes from the protests Fox News chose to show. (I'm sure they tried hard to make the counter protesters look bad.) When Trump says "charged in", I imagine that it's based on something visual, although he could be quoting or paraphrasing a commentator. I keep thinking I can counter him with truth and he will vanish in a puff of illogic, but it's not quite happening.
I did see one blonde regular on Fox's the Five condemn Trump's Nazi hugging yesterday. A tiny glimmer of decency. (I don't know the names of all five.)
Most dumb-ass thing I peeked at on Fox yesterday was Tucker Carlson. He indignantly built a lousy moral equivalency between recent events and the 150th anniversary of the surrender at Appamattox at which time he said us evil leftists threatened to desecrate Confederate graves. I had to change the channel.
posted by puddledork at 8:22 AM on August 16, 2017
The one good thing Trump is done, is sleep, whenever he sleeps, he serves the planet and the US. At no other time is he of value to anyone.
...and if his tweeting hours are any indication, he doesn't sleep much.
posted by flabdablet at 8:23 AM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
...and if his tweeting hours are any indication, he doesn't sleep much.
posted by flabdablet at 8:23 AM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
"You are free to congregate, and you are permitted to openly carry weapons, but you cannot openly carry weapons and congregate, because that does not imply a peaceful gathering."
Yes, and this congregation of hooting and hollering people dressed in blood red clothing walking in a line is how my mother got shot.
I do apologize for the filing on birch bark with charcoal but Internet and computers are hard to get in my present location.
/Bambi W Deer/
Filed in ED of WI - Green Bay
posted by rough ashlar at 8:24 AM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yes, and this congregation of hooting and hollering people dressed in blood red clothing walking in a line is how my mother got shot.
I do apologize for the filing on birch bark with charcoal but Internet and computers are hard to get in my present location.
/Bambi W Deer/
Filed in ED of WI - Green Bay
posted by rough ashlar at 8:24 AM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's pretty standard for remarks to be given in both English and French by a minister of the sitting government (if they're bilingual) - and it makes sense that she's making the remarks in Spanish since she speaks it as well.
From the link you give to her government page, Spanish isn't even one of the languages (listed) that she speaks. Impressive.
posted by Laura in Canada at 8:27 AM on August 16, 2017
From the link you give to her government page, Spanish isn't even one of the languages (listed) that she speaks. Impressive.
posted by Laura in Canada at 8:27 AM on August 16, 2017
The Allied forces were pretty violent during WWII. What with all the bombing and such. Someone should ask trump proxies if the Allies were "just as bad" as the nazis then, too.
posted by mabelstreet at 8:31 AM on August 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by mabelstreet at 8:31 AM on August 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
Where are all my angry, white friends? Why does everyone hate me on TV
Hugh Hewitt will be on soon.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:31 AM on August 16, 2017
Hugh Hewitt will be on soon.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:31 AM on August 16, 2017
One bright spot -
The organizers of the "March on Google" have cancelled their plans to demonstrate in nine cities this weekend, claiming that it is in response to "threats from the alt-left". (they were going to demonstrate at each of Googles' locations to protest that dude who got fired for that "women can't code" memo).
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:34 AM on August 16, 2017 [28 favorites]
The organizers of the "March on Google" have cancelled their plans to demonstrate in nine cities this weekend, claiming that it is in response to "threats from the alt-left". (they were going to demonstrate at each of Googles' locations to protest that dude who got fired for that "women can't code" memo).
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:34 AM on August 16, 2017 [28 favorites]
Seems Massachusetts officials legally can't just yank out a Confederate memorial on Georges Island in Boston Harbor (glorifying the 13 rebels who died there during the Civil War; placed there in 1963). But they can at least cover it up (self-link, sorry, I couldn't find any other photos of it in its newly covered state).
posted by adamg at 8:34 AM on August 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by adamg at 8:34 AM on August 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
I would really like to know which clips of clashes from the protests Fox News chose to show. (I'm sure they tried hard to make the counter protesters look bad.)
It's fox news. They covered the leftwing violence during the February protests in Madison, WI which is in Wisconsin. Note the palm trees in the footage.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 8:36 AM on August 16, 2017 [14 favorites]
It's fox news. They covered the leftwing violence during the February protests in Madison, WI which is in Wisconsin. Note the palm trees in the footage.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 8:36 AM on August 16, 2017 [14 favorites]
claiming that it is in response to "threats from the alt-left"
Somehow I think this has more to do with white supremacists realizing they could lose their jobs for outing themselves as white supremacists.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:38 AM on August 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
Somehow I think this has more to do with white supremacists realizing they could lose their jobs for outing themselves as white supremacists.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:38 AM on August 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
It's fox news. They covered the leftwing violence during the February protests in Madison, WI which is in Wisconsin. Note the palm trees in the footage.
Yeah, my first guess was he saw recycled Berkeley footage, which I think Republicans have and will use against Dems in many races. I believe it was mentioned weeks back that similar antifa being violent clips were used in the Georgia 08 race, to prove that all libs are terrible.
posted by puddledork at 8:41 AM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yeah, my first guess was he saw recycled Berkeley footage, which I think Republicans have and will use against Dems in many races. I believe it was mentioned weeks back that similar antifa being violent clips were used in the Georgia 08 race, to prove that all libs are terrible.
posted by puddledork at 8:41 AM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Somehow I think this has more to do with white supremacists realizing they could lose their jobs for outing themselves as white supremacists.
Oh, the "threats from the alt-Left" is BS, obviously. At most, I'd bet that all that happened is some kid sent them a snapchat of himself wearing a Guy Fawkes mask and saying "boogedy boogedy boogedy" or something.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:41 AM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Oh, the "threats from the alt-Left" is BS, obviously. At most, I'd bet that all that happened is some kid sent them a snapchat of himself wearing a Guy Fawkes mask and saying "boogedy boogedy boogedy" or something.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:41 AM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
The Allied forces were pretty violent during WWII. What with all the bombing and such. Someone should ask trump proxies if the Allies were "just as bad" as the nazis then, too.
You know, I'm pretty damn sure they didn't have a permit for June 6, 1944 either.
posted by nubs at 8:42 AM on August 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
You know, I'm pretty damn sure they didn't have a permit for June 6, 1944 either.
posted by nubs at 8:42 AM on August 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
The Allied forces were pretty violent during WWII. What with all the bombing and such. Someone should ask trump proxies if the Allies were "just as bad" as the nazis then, too.
Two other references I've seen being used with some effect are Star Wars and Indiana Jones.
Yeah if only Luke and Leia weren't so damn violent. Just as bad as the Empire.
Damn that Indiana Jones..so violent. Same as the Nazis fer sure.
These type of references are useful because they can jog people out of this 'both sides, violence is all bad' binary using something something familiar and generally agreed upon 'good side'.
posted by Jalliah at 8:42 AM on August 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
Two other references I've seen being used with some effect are Star Wars and Indiana Jones.
Yeah if only Luke and Leia weren't so damn violent. Just as bad as the Empire.
Damn that Indiana Jones..so violent. Same as the Nazis fer sure.
These type of references are useful because they can jog people out of this 'both sides, violence is all bad' binary using something something familiar and generally agreed upon 'good side'.
posted by Jalliah at 8:42 AM on August 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
And it's all because the person who has authority doesn't want the mess of actually exercising it.
Even in the schoolyard, it's often because the person who has authority thinks the person being bullied brought it upon themselves and/or maybe deserves it a little for being so bully-able, and would bully that person themselves if they could get away with it (and sometimes they can).
And the bully always thinks they've won when the authority figure says "you were both wrong" -- because that's usually what the authority figure means. "Both sides" isn't a very subtle dog whistle, but malignant narcissists are children and they behave like schoolyard bullies.
posted by camyram at 8:42 AM on August 16, 2017 [39 favorites]
Even in the schoolyard, it's often because the person who has authority thinks the person being bullied brought it upon themselves and/or maybe deserves it a little for being so bully-able, and would bully that person themselves if they could get away with it (and sometimes they can).
And the bully always thinks they've won when the authority figure says "you were both wrong" -- because that's usually what the authority figure means. "Both sides" isn't a very subtle dog whistle, but malignant narcissists are children and they behave like schoolyard bullies.
posted by camyram at 8:42 AM on August 16, 2017 [39 favorites]
You know, I'm pretty damn sure they didn't have a permit for June 6, 1944 either.
they made a mistake and got one for berlin - then one thing led to another ...
posted by pyramid termite at 8:51 AM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
they made a mistake and got one for berlin - then one thing led to another ...
posted by pyramid termite at 8:51 AM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Like others have pointed out in this thread, more than ever I feel physically sick from the last few days. We've been overwhelmed, fatigued, driven mad from by the relentless barrage of news since 45 took office- but things feel so surreal the last few days that I'm almost positive I have a fever. This nauseating, painful episode is just straight up sickening. All the worst things we've come to believe about this administration have come to pass, and we know it's only going to get worse.
Some part of me wants to believe T knows a big FBI/Russia scoop is going to hit the news in the next day or two, and he's just doing his usual bluster getting in front of things. Because accepting the alternative, that this man truly is what his worst moments show, is just way too hurtful. We've seen the painful festering sore of racism many times in recent years, but never in anyone's worst nightmares could the head of state be espousing such garbage. We know it's going to get worse...yet the only fantasy I can indulge in is that this really is the beginning of the end, and not just one more stop on the elevator ride to hell.
So I hope we all continue to take care of each other and get through this national sickness the best we can. I continue to believe the adults in the room (Mueller et al) are doing everything in their power to get through this properly but efficiently. I believe our last true president when he hoped for a better future, and the parabola of justice will eventually swing upwards again. And even it's foolish, it's better than succumbing to the malaise. Because if that's what the opposition really wants, for us to be sick and powerless (and ultimately die), well FUCK EM. They may have the power now...but most of us will live to see them fall from grace. And when they do, I look forward to our collective sigh of relief.
posted by andruwjones26 at 9:01 AM on August 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
Some part of me wants to believe T knows a big FBI/Russia scoop is going to hit the news in the next day or two, and he's just doing his usual bluster getting in front of things. Because accepting the alternative, that this man truly is what his worst moments show, is just way too hurtful. We've seen the painful festering sore of racism many times in recent years, but never in anyone's worst nightmares could the head of state be espousing such garbage. We know it's going to get worse...yet the only fantasy I can indulge in is that this really is the beginning of the end, and not just one more stop on the elevator ride to hell.
So I hope we all continue to take care of each other and get through this national sickness the best we can. I continue to believe the adults in the room (Mueller et al) are doing everything in their power to get through this properly but efficiently. I believe our last true president when he hoped for a better future, and the parabola of justice will eventually swing upwards again. And even it's foolish, it's better than succumbing to the malaise. Because if that's what the opposition really wants, for us to be sick and powerless (and ultimately die), well FUCK EM. They may have the power now...but most of us will live to see them fall from grace. And when they do, I look forward to our collective sigh of relief.
posted by andruwjones26 at 9:01 AM on August 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
Somehow I think this has more to do with white supremacists realizing they could lose their jobs for outing themselves as white supremacists.
Well, guess what - you broke it, you own it. If more people faced Bad Consequences for holding white supremacist views, there would be fewer of them, or at least fewer out-n-proud types.
And on the topic of violent white supremacists: James Fields accused of domestic violence multiple times. Among other things he beat up and threatened his mother, who is disabled.
Violence and hatred are all of a piece. You pull one thread and it unravels a whole blanket of interconnected prejudices and "isms." Violent, hating people are never violent to just one person one time. It's a pattern in their lives.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 9:05 AM on August 16, 2017 [23 favorites]
Well, guess what - you broke it, you own it. If more people faced Bad Consequences for holding white supremacist views, there would be fewer of them, or at least fewer out-n-proud types.
And on the topic of violent white supremacists: James Fields accused of domestic violence multiple times. Among other things he beat up and threatened his mother, who is disabled.
Violence and hatred are all of a piece. You pull one thread and it unravels a whole blanket of interconnected prejudices and "isms." Violent, hating people are never violent to just one person one time. It's a pattern in their lives.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 9:05 AM on August 16, 2017 [23 favorites]
Yeah if only Luke and Leia weren't so damn violent. Just as bad as the Empire.
Amazingly Nazis actually got upset about this in the run up to Rogue One.
posted by Artw at 9:07 AM on August 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
Amazingly Nazis actually got upset about this in the run up to Rogue One.
posted by Artw at 9:07 AM on August 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
Another 'Sexualized Culture' Investigation At Fish And Wildlife Leads To Firings
Moore, who was the direct supervisor of Gonzalez and Marsh, acknowledged engaging in sexual talk in the workplace, but downplayed it, according to the report, as “’just a group of guys…’ engaging in ‘locker room talk’
I heard this story on the radio this morning and literally shrieked with rage. Will this debasement never stop?
posted by bq at 9:08 AM on August 16, 2017 [29 favorites]
Moore, who was the direct supervisor of Gonzalez and Marsh, acknowledged engaging in sexual talk in the workplace, but downplayed it, according to the report, as “’just a group of guys…’ engaging in ‘locker room talk’
I heard this story on the radio this morning and literally shrieked with rage. Will this debasement never stop?
posted by bq at 9:08 AM on August 16, 2017 [29 favorites]
Outrage roundup:
David Rothkopf, WaPo: President Trump must go
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:15 AM on August 16, 2017 [31 favorites]
David Rothkopf, WaPo: President Trump must go
Donald Trump on Tuesday afternoon gave the most disgusting public performance in the history of the American presidency. Framed by the vulgar excess of the lobby of Trump Tower, the president of the United States shook loose the constraints of his more decent-minded advisers and, speaking from his heart, defended white supremacists and by extension, their credos of hatred. He equated with those thugs the courageous Americans who had gathered to stand up to the racism, anti-Semitism and doctrine of violence that won the cheers and Nazi salutes of the alt-right hordes to whom Trump felt such loyalty.Stopped Clock Jennifer Rubin, WaPo: Republicans, cut the outrage. It’s time to disown Trump.
[…N]ow would be a fine time for formation of a third party, one that can at the end of the Trump presidency repeal and replace the GOP. The Free Republican Party, the Appomattox Republicans (It cannot be said enough: The Confederates were losers) or whatever ex-Republicans in the center-right call themselves can endorse for office defectors from the GOP and reclaim Republicans who have disassociated themselves with the GOP thanks to Trump. Moderate Republican House members of the Tuesday Group, the new Centrist Project (dedicated to backing independent candidates), members of Stand Up Republic (founded by 2016 conservative independent presidential candidate Evan McMullin and his former running mate, Mindy Finn) and others have the chance to stake their claim as the true successors to the party of Lincoln. Those who have wrestled with the question as to whether the GOP could be reformed or whether it should be discarded in light of Trump’s GOP takeover have their answer. If they cannot disgorge him, they must start over.Tom Toles, WaPo: We condemn Intolerance, Neo-Nazis and the Ku Klux Klan.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:15 AM on August 16, 2017 [31 favorites]
And now the Air Force has joined in:
@GenDaveGoldfein
I stand with my fellow service chiefs in saying we're always stronger together-it's who we are as #Airmen [statement]
posted by chris24 at 9:16 AM on August 16, 2017 [62 favorites]
@GenDaveGoldfein
I stand with my fellow service chiefs in saying we're always stronger together-it's who we are as #Airmen [statement]
posted by chris24 at 9:16 AM on August 16, 2017 [62 favorites]
Amazingly Nazis actually got upset about this in the run up to Rogue One.
Yes many did. Pretty telling that they saw themselves being portrayed as 'The Empire' and were pissed at the idea of being seen as the bad guys. They want to be seen as the Rebels and try to convince people that they are on the side of Luke and Han. The good guys. Good luck with that.
posted by Jalliah at 9:19 AM on August 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
Yes many did. Pretty telling that they saw themselves being portrayed as 'The Empire' and were pissed at the idea of being seen as the bad guys. They want to be seen as the Rebels and try to convince people that they are on the side of Luke and Han. The good guys. Good luck with that.
posted by Jalliah at 9:19 AM on August 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
Holy shit, it was weird enough seeing military officials subtweet the President, but one of them dropping his electoral rival's campaign slogan at the same time might just cause an aneurysm.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:19 AM on August 16, 2017 [113 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:19 AM on August 16, 2017 [113 favorites]
They may have the power now...but most of us will live to see them fall from grace. And when they do, I look forward to our collective sigh of relief.
More than that. I want the Trump administration to be the end of the Republican Party. I want the gilt Trump Rope forever tied around their leg. I want this never to be forgotten, that when it came down to it, the Republicans willingly stood behind Donald Fucking Trump in order to get their agenda passed. That they accepted giving this racist bastard his moment in the sun in exchange for the policy changes they wanted. Even if they eventually throw him out, that they've stuck with him this long is damning.
The odor of Trump must forever hang in the air around them, and no other scents they emit must be allowed to cover it up. If conservatives want a party that can play in national politics again, let them build it up from scratch.
posted by JHarris at 9:23 AM on August 16, 2017 [43 favorites]
More than that. I want the Trump administration to be the end of the Republican Party. I want the gilt Trump Rope forever tied around their leg. I want this never to be forgotten, that when it came down to it, the Republicans willingly stood behind Donald Fucking Trump in order to get their agenda passed. That they accepted giving this racist bastard his moment in the sun in exchange for the policy changes they wanted. Even if they eventually throw him out, that they've stuck with him this long is damning.
The odor of Trump must forever hang in the air around them, and no other scents they emit must be allowed to cover it up. If conservatives want a party that can play in national politics again, let them build it up from scratch.
posted by JHarris at 9:23 AM on August 16, 2017 [43 favorites]
Pretty telling that they saw themselves being portrayed as 'The Empire' and were pissed at the idea of being seen as the bad guys.
These guys will twist any media into thinking it's on their side. They run around in Captain America and Punisher shirts, invoking two characters who would destroy them and their cause. What's even more mind-boggling are the ones who think X-Men is about outcasts they can relate to.
Of course, it doesn't help at all that Marvel stuck to its guns on running their "Nazi Captain America" Secret Empire garbage this summer. Now these guys have comic after comic of iconography and branding done just for them by some of the best artists in the business. It doesn't really matter how that story turns out. The whole mess won't be remembered for whatever good guys win ending it has. What will live on is the panels of Cap saying "Hail Hydra" and the pics of Nazi Cap wielding Thor's hammer.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:24 AM on August 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
These guys will twist any media into thinking it's on their side. They run around in Captain America and Punisher shirts, invoking two characters who would destroy them and their cause. What's even more mind-boggling are the ones who think X-Men is about outcasts they can relate to.
Of course, it doesn't help at all that Marvel stuck to its guns on running their "Nazi Captain America" Secret Empire garbage this summer. Now these guys have comic after comic of iconography and branding done just for them by some of the best artists in the business. It doesn't really matter how that story turns out. The whole mess won't be remembered for whatever good guys win ending it has. What will live on is the panels of Cap saying "Hail Hydra" and the pics of Nazi Cap wielding Thor's hammer.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:24 AM on August 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
Lindy West on fire in the NYT:
It is easy to denounce Nazis. Republican lawmakers, if you truly repudiate this march and this violence, then repudiate voter-ID laws. Repudiate gerrymandering. Repudiate police brutality. Repudiate mass incarceration and private prisons. Repudiate the war on drugs. Repudiate the fact that black Americans have still not been compensated for the unpaid forced labor that was foundational to white financial stability. Repudiate gun control obstructionism. Repudiate the Muslim ban. Repudiate the wall. Repudiate anti-abortion legislation. Repudiate abstinence-only education. Repudiate environmental deregulation. Repudiate birtherism. Repudiate homophobia and transphobia. Repudiate your own health care bill, which would have led to the deaths of thousands more people than a Dodge Challenger driven into a crowd. Repudiate your president.
posted by angrycat at 9:25 AM on August 16, 2017 [122 favorites]
It is easy to denounce Nazis. Republican lawmakers, if you truly repudiate this march and this violence, then repudiate voter-ID laws. Repudiate gerrymandering. Repudiate police brutality. Repudiate mass incarceration and private prisons. Repudiate the war on drugs. Repudiate the fact that black Americans have still not been compensated for the unpaid forced labor that was foundational to white financial stability. Repudiate gun control obstructionism. Repudiate the Muslim ban. Repudiate the wall. Repudiate anti-abortion legislation. Repudiate abstinence-only education. Repudiate environmental deregulation. Repudiate birtherism. Repudiate homophobia and transphobia. Repudiate your own health care bill, which would have led to the deaths of thousands more people than a Dodge Challenger driven into a crowd. Repudiate your president.
posted by angrycat at 9:25 AM on August 16, 2017 [122 favorites]
filthy light thief: "This would be an interesting tactic. "You are free to congregate, and you are permitted to openly carry weapons, but you cannot openly carry weapons and congregate, because that does not imply a peaceful gathering." Yeah, we'd get to lawsuits, but I think that giving current tensions, that's not such a hard case to make."
Seems like any permit granting organization that wanted to spike these guys cannon in this way while being constitutionally compliant could make funding by the organizers of overwhelming security (say one congretator:one guard) a condition of the permit. Like the moderator in a nuclear reactor just the presence of non allied people between the nazis would temper the violence.
posted by Mitheral at 9:25 AM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
Seems like any permit granting organization that wanted to spike these guys cannon in this way while being constitutionally compliant could make funding by the organizers of overwhelming security (say one congretator:one guard) a condition of the permit. Like the moderator in a nuclear reactor just the presence of non allied people between the nazis would temper the violence.
posted by Mitheral at 9:25 AM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
EmpressCallipygos: The organizers of the "March on Google" have cancelled their plans to demonstrate in nine cities this weekend, claiming that it is in response to "threats from the alt-left". (they were going to demonstrate at each of Googles' locations to protest that dude who got fired for that "women can't code" memo).
scaryblackdeath: I think this has more to do with white supremacists realizing they could lose their jobs for outing themselves as white supremacists.
I keep thinking back to a piece from Aziz Ansari's SNL monologue, just after Trump took office in January:
posted by filthy light thief at 9:28 AM on August 16, 2017 [48 favorites]
scaryblackdeath: I think this has more to do with white supremacists realizing they could lose their jobs for outing themselves as white supremacists.
I keep thinking back to a piece from Aziz Ansari's SNL monologue, just after Trump took office in January:
I'm talking about these people that, as soon as Trump won, they’re like, “We don’t have to pretend like we’re not racist anymore! We don’t have to pretend anymore! We can be racist again! Whoo!”Please go back to thinking your terrible thoughts by yourself, instead of penning manifestos and marching in the streets and attacking people who scare you. Please, and thank you.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! No, no! If you’re one of these people, please go back to pretending. You’ve got to go back to pretending. I’m so sorry we never thanked you for your service. We never realized how much effort you were putting into the pretending. But you gotta go back to pretending.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:28 AM on August 16, 2017 [48 favorites]
Public pressure works: Cheyenne Mountain Resort cancels white nationalist conference. VDARE is also whining that they've been denied service by PayPal (no link, sorry, but it's on their website and FB page).
posted by danielleh at 9:30 AM on August 16, 2017 [36 favorites]
posted by danielleh at 9:30 AM on August 16, 2017 [36 favorites]
@NatashaBertrand
.@AP says it won't use the term "alt-right" anymore "because it is meant as a euphemism to disguise racist aims."
AP: How to describe extremists who rallied in Charlottesville
posted by chris24 at 9:39 AM on August 16, 2017 [93 favorites]
.@AP says it won't use the term "alt-right" anymore "because it is meant as a euphemism to disguise racist aims."
AP: How to describe extremists who rallied in Charlottesville
posted by chris24 at 9:39 AM on August 16, 2017 [93 favorites]
they've been denied service by PayPal
I'm super happy that PayPal is (finally!) taking a stand against processing payments for hate groups, and it's made all the sweeter because you know that Peter Thiel is just fucking seething
posted by Existential Dread at 9:47 AM on August 16, 2017 [54 favorites]
I'm super happy that PayPal is (finally!) taking a stand against processing payments for hate groups, and it's made all the sweeter because you know that Peter Thiel is just fucking seething
posted by Existential Dread at 9:47 AM on August 16, 2017 [54 favorites]
The Douche Canoe's openly hateful, racist rhetoric and practice completely undercuts his supposed business acumen. A competent businessperson, I would think, would want to appeal to as broad a customer base as possible. Supporting hate groups and discrimination against people of color alienates massive amounts of customers, not just in the United States, but all around the world.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:49 AM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:49 AM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
@NatashaBertrand
.@AP says it won't use the term "alt-right" anymore "because it is meant as a euphemism to disguise racist aims."
FINALLY.
posted by entropicamericana at 9:55 AM on August 16, 2017 [41 favorites]
.@AP says it won't use the term "alt-right" anymore "because it is meant as a euphemism to disguise racist aims."
FINALLY.
posted by entropicamericana at 9:55 AM on August 16, 2017 [41 favorites]
I'm just so angry about today's events that I'm seriously considering blotting out the sun. I'll try to contain myself for a few days and see how it goes
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:45 AM
You could just wait until next Monday.
posted by yoga at 9:58 AM on August 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:45 AM
You could just wait until next Monday.
posted by yoga at 9:58 AM on August 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
YESSSSS, I was so sad I had to boycott my favorite creamy tomato soup.
posted by like_neon at 10:00 AM on August 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by like_neon at 10:00 AM on August 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
Wow, I go out to LUNCH and come back and one council has disbanded and TWO CEO's bail on the other council.
Countdown to enraged Twittler Appearance....
posted by mikelieman at 10:01 AM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Countdown to enraged Twittler Appearance....
posted by mikelieman at 10:01 AM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
You could just wait until next Monday.
thatsthejoke.gif
posted by thelonius at 10:01 AM on August 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
thatsthejoke.gif
posted by thelonius at 10:01 AM on August 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
The Douche Canoe's openly hateful, racist rhetoric and practice completely undercuts his supposed business acumen.
It is astounding to me that someone with so little impulse control can be successful in any arena, even given the privileges Trump has enjoyed his whole life. How is he not in jail? Is this all going to end with a "you can't handle the truth" moment? Because, like Col. Jessep, he clearly wants to say it.
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 10:03 AM on August 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
It is astounding to me that someone with so little impulse control can be successful in any arena, even given the privileges Trump has enjoyed his whole life. How is he not in jail? Is this all going to end with a "you can't handle the truth" moment? Because, like Col. Jessep, he clearly wants to say it.
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 10:03 AM on August 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
CNBC: Campbell CEO resigns from Trump's manufacturing council
SoupNazi
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:04 AM on August 16, 2017 [66 favorites]
Soup
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:04 AM on August 16, 2017 [66 favorites]
I was late to the news of Trump's remarks yesterday. I made up for it by calling all my reps in government, US Senators, US House rep, State Govenor, State Senator, and State rep.
I urged them all to at least speak out against Trump. The more voices raised against him the sooner he will resign or be impeached. I hope.
It has to be clear, we are on the side that is NOT the Nazis!
posted by Gadgetenvy at 10:08 AM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
I urged them all to at least speak out against Trump. The more voices raised against him the sooner he will resign or be impeached. I hope.
It has to be clear, we are on the side that is NOT the Nazis!
posted by Gadgetenvy at 10:08 AM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
yep, just came in here to say that the 3M statement was a barely-there commitment to the personal values of "sustainability, diversity and inclusion"
1 point to Campbell's, .01 points to 3M for at least not sticking around. . .
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 10:09 AM on August 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
1 point to Campbell's, .01 points to 3M for at least not sticking around. . .
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 10:09 AM on August 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm through asking for my reps to speak out. I've been tweeting at them and calling with one simple phrase since yesterday: 25th Amendment. Now.
posted by gofargogo at 10:10 AM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by gofargogo at 10:10 AM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
One of my co-workers just said this, and I laughed harder than I probably should -
"I don't know why I feel this way, but I feel like if you met Trump, he would smell bad."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:10 AM on August 16, 2017 [44 favorites]
"I don't know why I feel this way, but I feel like if you met Trump, he would smell bad."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:10 AM on August 16, 2017 [44 favorites]
The question remains, who will be the last CEO left standing?
posted by Talez at 10:11 AM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Talez at 10:11 AM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
3M ... sticking around.
I mean, it is what they're known for.
posted by bonje at 10:11 AM on August 16, 2017 [28 favorites]
I mean, it is what they're known for.
posted by bonje at 10:11 AM on August 16, 2017 [28 favorites]
.01 points to 3M for at least not sticking around. . .
Did... did you just make an adhesives pun?
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:11 AM on August 16, 2017 [45 favorites]
Did... did you just make an adhesives pun?
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:11 AM on August 16, 2017 [45 favorites]
The Strategic and Policy Forum has disbanded.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 10:12 AM on August 16, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 10:12 AM on August 16, 2017 [18 favorites]
The question remains, who will be the last CEO left standing?
None. I promise you they're going to disband the entire council.
posted by Windigo at 10:13 AM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
None. I promise you they're going to disband the entire council.
posted by Windigo at 10:13 AM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Oh man I predicted the future moments too late!
posted by Windigo at 10:14 AM on August 16, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by Windigo at 10:14 AM on August 16, 2017 [34 favorites]
Michael Dell. He affirmed his commitment to staying yesterday. Although I thought I read that Denise from Campbell's said the same thing and she's changed her tune?
posted by like_neon at 10:14 AM on August 16, 2017
posted by like_neon at 10:14 AM on August 16, 2017
I had dinner with a friend last night and she talked about her wife's mother being an activist in the 1960s and how the mother emphasized picking one issue and just sticking to that.
So today I fired up Resistbot to urge my Congressional delegation (2/3 WOC yay) to remind their Republican colleagues that Love Canal knows no political affiliation and everyone needs clean air and clean water. Pruitt is "reprioritizing" Superfund cleanups, but Trump is savagely cutting the EPA budget so I don't know how Pruitt thinks he's going to get any more sites remediated than are currently being worked on.
I'm worried about everything, but I need to pick my lane, because otherwise I just want to crawl under my desk and cry.
posted by suelac at 10:15 AM on August 16, 2017 [13 favorites]
So today I fired up Resistbot to urge my Congressional delegation (2/3 WOC yay) to remind their Republican colleagues that Love Canal knows no political affiliation and everyone needs clean air and clean water. Pruitt is "reprioritizing" Superfund cleanups, but Trump is savagely cutting the EPA budget so I don't know how Pruitt thinks he's going to get any more sites remediated than are currently being worked on.
I'm worried about everything, but I need to pick my lane, because otherwise I just want to crawl under my desk and cry.
posted by suelac at 10:15 AM on August 16, 2017 [13 favorites]
No, you've still got a valid prediction! My post is about the Strategic and Policy Forum, but the manufacturer's council still has some hangers-on.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 10:15 AM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 10:15 AM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trump just tweeted that HE is the one disbanding the councils.
posted by Brainy at 10:15 AM on August 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Brainy at 10:15 AM on August 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
That guy says a lot of untrue things.
posted by jessamyn at 10:16 AM on August 16, 2017 [79 favorites]
posted by jessamyn at 10:16 AM on August 16, 2017 [79 favorites]
Did... did you just make an adhesives pun?
Why else post it?
posted by Autumnheart at 10:16 AM on August 16, 2017 [131 favorites]
Why else post it?
posted by Autumnheart at 10:16 AM on August 16, 2017 [131 favorites]
Text of the censure resolution.
posted by marshmallow peep at 10:17 AM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by marshmallow peep at 10:17 AM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
Trump just tweeted that HE is the one disbanding the councils.
"YOU CAN'T QUIT! YOU'RE FIRED!" [fake]
posted by Talez at 10:17 AM on August 16, 2017 [24 favorites]
"YOU CAN'T QUIT! YOU'RE FIRED!" [fake]
posted by Talez at 10:17 AM on August 16, 2017 [24 favorites]
Trump just tweeted that HE is the one disbanding the councils.
You're not breaking up with me, *I* am breaking up with *you*.
posted by chris24 at 10:18 AM on August 16, 2017 [23 favorites]
You're not breaking up with me, *I* am breaking up with *you*.
posted by chris24 at 10:18 AM on August 16, 2017 [23 favorites]
Oh my god trump you ninny you're a badly written Saturday-afternoon kid's show villain. From one of those lame shows that came on AFTER the good cartoons.
posted by Windigo at 10:19 AM on August 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Windigo at 10:19 AM on August 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
lol Trump's tweet is the exact reason why someone on or associated with those councils leaked the news of the council disbanding on their own initiative DURING THE CONFERENCE CALL ABOUT IT. Good call, whoever that was.
posted by yasaman at 10:19 AM on August 16, 2017 [51 favorites]
posted by yasaman at 10:19 AM on August 16, 2017 [51 favorites]
Dammit, Talez's version is better.
posted by chris24 at 10:20 AM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 10:20 AM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
Kelly has clearly left the building.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 10:21 AM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 10:21 AM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Andrew E. Kramer and Andew Higgins report on a potentially quite significant story in relation to Russian cyberattacks: In Ukraine, a Malware Expert Who Could Blow the Whistle on Russian Hacking
Due to warmer relations with Kiev, US agencies are more likely to operate with the coöperation of the Ukrainian government, should someone within their borders manufacture cyberweapons and get caught doing so.
In a true administration, this story would be a headliner--really at other times during this regime of hate and stupid.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:23 AM on August 16, 2017 [49 favorites]
Profexer’s posts, already accessible only to a small band of fellow hackers and cybercriminals looking for software tips, blinked out in January — just days after American intelligence agencies publicly identified a program he had written as one tool used in the hacking of the Democratic National Committee.This article is well-worth reading if you're interested about the modus operandi of GRU/KGB advanced persistent cyber threats. Basically, though, it sounds like the Russian government collects and outsources the work of constructing cyberweapons, while organizing and providing money through shady, obscured means.
But while Profexer’s online persona vanished, a flesh-and-blood person has emerged: a fearful man who the Ukrainian police said turned himself in early this year, and has now become a witness for the F.B.I.
“I don’t know what will happen,” he wrote in one of his last messages posted on a restricted-access website before going to the police. “It won’t be pleasant. But I’m still alive.”
It is the first known instance of a living witness emerging from the arid mass of technical detail that has so far shaped the investigation into the D.N.C. hack and the heated debate it has stirred. The Ukrainian police declined to divulge the man’s name or other details, other than that he is living in Ukraine and has not been arrested.
There is no evidence that Profexer worked, at least knowingly, for Russia’s intelligence services, but his malware apparently did. [...]
It does not suggest a compact team of government employees who write all their own code and carry out attacks during office hours in Moscow or St. Petersburg, but rather a far looser enterprise that draws on talent and hacking tools wherever they can be found. [...]
Rather than training, arming and deploying hackers to carry out a specific mission like just another military unit, Fancy Bear and its twin Cozy Bear have operated more as centers for organization and financing; much of the hard work like coding is outsourced to private and often crime-tainted vendors.
Due to warmer relations with Kiev, US agencies are more likely to operate with the coöperation of the Ukrainian government, should someone within their borders manufacture cyberweapons and get caught doing so.
In a true administration, this story would be a headliner--really at other times during this regime of hate and stupid.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:23 AM on August 16, 2017 [49 favorites]
lol what happened to all the great CEO replacements he can get? itsamystery.gif
I kinda wish he would still try so we could see his lame new council of like a regional hardware store manager, a bait shop owner and some rando MLM scammer.
posted by jason_steakums at 10:23 AM on August 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
I kinda wish he would still try so we could see his lame new council of like a regional hardware store manager, a bait shop owner and some rando MLM scammer.
posted by jason_steakums at 10:23 AM on August 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
So, do those CEOs who hadn't jumped yet now wish they had before the council disbanded?
Or do they just get to walk away mostly unscathed?
posted by notyou at 10:27 AM on August 16, 2017
Or do they just get to walk away mostly unscathed?
posted by notyou at 10:27 AM on August 16, 2017
Trump just tweeted that HE is the one disbanding the councils.
@darthvader: Rather than put pressure on the Grand Moffs helming the Death Star, I've decided to blow it up. Thank you all!
posted by schoolgirl report at 10:28 AM on August 16, 2017 [37 favorites]
@darthvader: Rather than put pressure on the Grand Moffs helming the Death Star, I've decided to blow it up. Thank you all!
posted by schoolgirl report at 10:28 AM on August 16, 2017 [37 favorites]
This is... bonkers. How can Trump continue? Legitimacy is draining away by the hour.
posted by notyou at 10:30 AM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by notyou at 10:30 AM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Unfortunately, probably unscathed. He's taken names of who's pro-actively left so he can grandstand about how he'll always remember who betrayed him (that list is getting pretty long), but the cowards who sat it out will scurry under a rock and hope no one will remember.
posted by like_neon at 10:31 AM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by like_neon at 10:31 AM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
> Political theatre, in that it will never make it to a vote, but good and necessary theatre.
Given what's happened since Charlottesville, I think we're in a place where the only acceptable opening offer is articles of impeachment. If that's going nowhere, *maybe* you let them bargain it down to censure, but my concern, were a censure to actually take place (which seems quite unlikely ) is that it would wipe the slate clean from the perspective of the press, and let his GOP enablers off the hook.
If lying about receiving Oval Office fellatio was worthy of beginning impeachment proceedings but aligning yourself with neo-Nazis isn't, the American experiment is pretty much over.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:31 AM on August 16, 2017 [67 favorites]
Given what's happened since Charlottesville, I think we're in a place where the only acceptable opening offer is articles of impeachment. If that's going nowhere, *maybe* you let them bargain it down to censure, but my concern, were a censure to actually take place (which seems quite unlikely ) is that it would wipe the slate clean from the perspective of the press, and let his GOP enablers off the hook.
If lying about receiving Oval Office fellatio was worthy of beginning impeachment proceedings but aligning yourself with neo-Nazis isn't, the American experiment is pretty much over.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:31 AM on August 16, 2017 [67 favorites]
Of course, if this is what takes Trump down, what a waste of goddamn time by the Republicans, he's the same asshole today he was on January 20 and every one of them knew it then.
posted by jason_steakums at 10:33 AM on August 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 10:33 AM on August 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
Or do they just get to walk away mostly unscathed?
Without someone leaking what was said on the call (which might have been all the members basically presenting an ultimatum and then disbanding as a result), I would say they likely get no blame...but they get no credit either, whereas 3M and Campbell's might be able to get some.
posted by nubs at 10:33 AM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Without someone leaking what was said on the call (which might have been all the members basically presenting an ultimatum and then disbanding as a result), I would say they likely get no blame...but they get no credit either, whereas 3M and Campbell's might be able to get some.
posted by nubs at 10:33 AM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Well, it's not over, but we definitely need to try different compounds because this one obviously sucks.
posted by Autumnheart at 10:34 AM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Autumnheart at 10:34 AM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Of course, if this is what takes Trump down, what a waste of goddamn time by the Republicans, he's the same asshole today he was on January 20 when he rode down that fucking escalator two years ago and every one of them knew it then.
FTFY.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:38 AM on August 16, 2017 [27 favorites]
FTFY.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:38 AM on August 16, 2017 [27 favorites]
@darthvader: Rather than put pressure on the Grand Moffs helming the Death Star, I've decided to blow it up. Thank you all!
Not to be that guy (he said, going on to be that guy) but in ANH, Vader worked under Grand Moff Tarkin; he was just another flunky for the Empire. I'm just here to help keep the geek references clean in your politics thread.
posted by nubs at 10:41 AM on August 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
Not to be that guy (he said, going on to be that guy) but in ANH, Vader worked under Grand Moff Tarkin; he was just another flunky for the Empire. I'm just here to help keep the geek references clean in your politics thread.
posted by nubs at 10:41 AM on August 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
I'm confused, are BOTH councils disbanded? And which one is Trump saying he is dumping?
posted by like_neon at 10:44 AM on August 16, 2017
posted by like_neon at 10:44 AM on August 16, 2017
I just emailed a friend of mine in Jerrold Nadler's district and told him about the censure, and asked him to call Nadler's office to ask "why stop there, why not go all the way to impeachment?"
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:44 AM on August 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:44 AM on August 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
I'm about to link to a Fox news clip. I hate to do it but I think it is worth watching. I don't know anything about these two black political analysis but the raw absolute pain in their faces as they discuss Trump's comments is ... I don't have the words. Here is an article in The Hill that contains the video.
posted by mcduff at 10:44 AM on August 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by mcduff at 10:44 AM on August 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
IMHO nothing will happen because they're shit scared of his base. The electoral calculus doesn't change keeping Trump, they can reasonably fight for the House and will still hold the Senate until at least 2022 if not longer. If they rock the boat there's a good chance there will be a fracture in the Republican party that will wreck everything either by running third parties or just staying home out of disgust.
posted by Talez at 10:44 AM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Talez at 10:44 AM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
I just emailed a friend of mine in Jerrold Nadler's district and told him about the censure, and asked him to call Nadler's office to ask "why stop there, why not go all the way to impeachment?"
Nadler's my congressman. I will be making a call.
posted by chris24 at 10:46 AM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
Nadler's my congressman. I will be making a call.
posted by chris24 at 10:46 AM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
I sure as hell can't read what's happening right now, but that's been the last twelve months.
However, a narrative I've seen get some traction on Twitter - as various people try to find new ways to express outrage and get beneath the skin of the only people who can actually do anything about 45 - is 'His place in ignominy is now assured, and there is no doubt how history will see him. Those who stand by him now, and those who fail to exercise their option to remove him, will be tarred with the same brush'.
Which I like. Many politicians, senior ones in particular, get seriously engorged about Leaving Their Footprints In The Sands Of Time (vide Harrison Wintergreen), and shame and disgrace can be quite good at modifying their actions. They rarely think that what they do, however unwholesome, will actually disgrace them, but in this case the narrative is pretty hard to deny.
It won't flip the game, but it's worth adding to the deck.
posted by Devonian at 10:46 AM on August 16, 2017 [32 favorites]
However, a narrative I've seen get some traction on Twitter - as various people try to find new ways to express outrage and get beneath the skin of the only people who can actually do anything about 45 - is 'His place in ignominy is now assured, and there is no doubt how history will see him. Those who stand by him now, and those who fail to exercise their option to remove him, will be tarred with the same brush'.
Which I like. Many politicians, senior ones in particular, get seriously engorged about Leaving Their Footprints In The Sands Of Time (vide Harrison Wintergreen), and shame and disgrace can be quite good at modifying their actions. They rarely think that what they do, however unwholesome, will actually disgrace them, but in this case the narrative is pretty hard to deny.
It won't flip the game, but it's worth adding to the deck.
posted by Devonian at 10:46 AM on August 16, 2017 [32 favorites]
"why stop there, why not go all the way to impeachment?"
Because it's as likely that you'll get a two-thirds vote to convict in a GOP-controlled Senate as it is that Trump will step in front of a microphone and say "Barack Obama is a great American". "Politics is the art of the possible", as someone said.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 10:48 AM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Because it's as likely that you'll get a two-thirds vote to convict in a GOP-controlled Senate as it is that Trump will step in front of a microphone and say "Barack Obama is a great American". "Politics is the art of the possible", as someone said.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 10:48 AM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Is being a fucking Nazi even an impeachable offense?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:59 AM on August 16, 2017
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:59 AM on August 16, 2017
There are still other advisory panels. The tech industry one, Economic advisors, science and technology, all those people should resign too. You can't advise a Nazi administration and not be a Nazi collaborator.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:59 AM on August 16, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:59 AM on August 16, 2017 [30 favorites]
Trump just tweeted that HE is the one disbanding the councils.
Impossible! How will the president maintain control without the bureaucracy?
posted by EarBucket at 11:00 AM on August 16, 2017 [18 favorites]
Impossible! How will the president maintain control without the bureaucracy?
posted by EarBucket at 11:00 AM on August 16, 2017 [18 favorites]
Is being a fucking Nazi even an impeachable offense?
The founding fathers forgot to write that one into the constitution, sorry. Hail Hydra!
posted by Behemoth at 11:02 AM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
The founding fathers forgot to write that one into the constitution, sorry. Hail Hydra!
posted by Behemoth at 11:02 AM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Impossible! How will the president maintain control without the bureaucracy?
Fear will keep the local systems in line…
posted by mazola at 11:04 AM on August 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
Fear will keep the local systems in line…
posted by mazola at 11:04 AM on August 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
An impeachable offense is precisely whatever the Congress decides is an impeachable offense.
posted by Justinian at 11:05 AM on August 16, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 11:05 AM on August 16, 2017 [13 favorites]
The whole thing is worth a read.
Rolling Stone: Republicans Must Tell Trump to Go – Now: History won't judge them kindly if they stand by the president
Rolling Stone: Republicans Must Tell Trump to Go – Now: History won't judge them kindly if they stand by the president
Forget impeachment. Forget Robert Mueller's investigation. Forget Russia. Well, don't forget them, but put them to the side for a moment. Investigations and impeachments and Senate trials take time, and we don't have time any more. The president has to go now, and it's up to his fellow Republicans to get him to leave.posted by chris24 at 11:06 AM on August 16, 2017 [99 favorites]
On Tuesday, the president of the United States said there were good people marching alongside the Ku Klux Klan, neo-Nazis and white supremacists.
We can't have a president who says good people march with Nazis. We just can't. We have so much work to do on race in this country, so many people who need to understand the depth of systemic racism that pervades every aspect of society. We need dialog and understanding, but right now we're in an emergency, and this guy has to go.
It can't just be up to liberals and leftists to make this call anymore. It's not enough for Republicans like Speaker Paul Ryan to issue generic statements denouncing racism. We have a racist president. Every elected official needs to denounce him by name.
But even that doesn't go far enough. It's time, after nearly 30 weeks with him in office stomping on the Constitution and basic human decency, to demand his resignation. Every time we thought there were no more lines for him to cross, he finds a bright red one and leaps over it.
This can't be a partisan issue any more. At some point all but the most extreme Republicans have to be able to recognize a national emergency when they see one. If not now, when? If this president isn't unfit for the office after what he said Tuesday, who would be?
IMHO nothing will happen because they're shit scared of his base. The electoral calculus doesn't change keeping Trump, they can reasonably fight for the House and will still hold the Senate until at least 2022 if not longer. If they rock the boat there's a good chance there will be a fracture in the Republican party that will wreck everything either by running third parties or just staying home out of disgust.
See they just need to have faith in the Democrats to make the most boneheaded move possible and decide that it's safe to split their own party after that, putting us right back at square one. Because I could totally see that happening.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:08 AM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
See they just need to have faith in the Democrats to make the most boneheaded move possible and decide that it's safe to split their own party after that, putting us right back at square one. Because I could totally see that happening.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:08 AM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Fear will keep the local systems in line…
This unusually violent orangutan with advanced dementia and access to the nuclear football is now the ultimate power in the universe.
posted by Behemoth at 11:08 AM on August 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
This unusually violent orangutan with advanced dementia and access to the nuclear football is now the ultimate power in the universe.
posted by Behemoth at 11:08 AM on August 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
Right so that's two councils down. How do we get the other ones to fall apart as well? It actually seems faster to get private corporations to denounce Trump than republicans. So let's do this. People need to see who really stands by the orange fruit loop.
posted by like_neon at 11:10 AM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by like_neon at 11:10 AM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
On Tuesday, the president of the United States said there were good people marching alongside the Ku Klux Klan, neo-Nazis and white supremacists.
Once again the press should follow up.
Please name at least one good person who marched with these KKK, neo-nazis and white supremacists.
Let's see if these good people stand in daylight without starting to sizzle.
posted by srboisvert at 11:13 AM on August 16, 2017 [30 favorites]
Once again the press should follow up.
Please name at least one good person who marched with these KKK, neo-nazis and white supremacists.
Let's see if these good people stand in daylight without starting to sizzle.
posted by srboisvert at 11:13 AM on August 16, 2017 [30 favorites]
The question I want to hear asked is, "If you could have marched, would you?" Because I think he's just dumb enough to forget what answering yes would mean, but not smart enough to say he wouldn't march with his supporters.
posted by Mchelly at 11:20 AM on August 16, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by Mchelly at 11:20 AM on August 16, 2017 [21 favorites]
This unusually violent orangutan with advanced dementia and access to the nuclear football is now the ultimate power in the universe.
Hey now. Orangutans are smart and cool. Don't diss them.
In fact I struggle to think of a non-human creature that deserves to be compared to 45.
Some kind of horrifying body parasite that is transmitted via poop, maybe. Or that fungus that zombifies ants. There seem to be some parallels there for sure.
posted by emjaybee at 11:21 AM on August 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
Hey now. Orangutans are smart and cool. Don't diss them.
In fact I struggle to think of a non-human creature that deserves to be compared to 45.
Some kind of horrifying body parasite that is transmitted via poop, maybe. Or that fungus that zombifies ants. There seem to be some parallels there for sure.
posted by emjaybee at 11:21 AM on August 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
@iSmashFizzle (Ashley Ford, Refinery29)
All the white people who were raised to think talking about race is racist now think BLM is a hate group because it deals with race.
- That's where that "we should all be colorblind' mess will get you. With a bunch of people who think saying 'Black' is verbally violent.
- When they say "We need to unite!" they mean, "YOU need to assimilate!" We make them uncomfortable by being. They think it's violence.
- To them, whether we deal with racism or not is irrelevant. The real question is, why do we have to *talk* about it so much?
- These are people who remain silent publicly to "keep the peace" & privately ask black people for assurance that they're on the right side.
- These are the people who believe the guilt they feel about the oppression of Black folks is something we're doing to them, making them feel.
- Then they resent us for "forcing" them to recognize what's in their own hearts and/or communities. Why couldn't we just be quiet?
- This is how you end up blaming BLM for what happened in Charlottesville. This is how that lie was born. I don't know how fix that.
- I don't know that it's my job to fix that either. The only thing I know for sure is that I have no intention of being quiet. Now or ever.
posted by chris24 at 11:21 AM on August 16, 2017 [82 favorites]
All the white people who were raised to think talking about race is racist now think BLM is a hate group because it deals with race.
- That's where that "we should all be colorblind' mess will get you. With a bunch of people who think saying 'Black' is verbally violent.
- When they say "We need to unite!" they mean, "YOU need to assimilate!" We make them uncomfortable by being. They think it's violence.
- To them, whether we deal with racism or not is irrelevant. The real question is, why do we have to *talk* about it so much?
- These are people who remain silent publicly to "keep the peace" & privately ask black people for assurance that they're on the right side.
- These are the people who believe the guilt they feel about the oppression of Black folks is something we're doing to them, making them feel.
- Then they resent us for "forcing" them to recognize what's in their own hearts and/or communities. Why couldn't we just be quiet?
- This is how you end up blaming BLM for what happened in Charlottesville. This is how that lie was born. I don't know how fix that.
- I don't know that it's my job to fix that either. The only thing I know for sure is that I have no intention of being quiet. Now or ever.
posted by chris24 at 11:21 AM on August 16, 2017 [82 favorites]
> Because it's as likely that you'll get a two-thirds vote to convict in a GOP-controlled Senate as it is that Trump will step in front of a microphone and say "Barack Obama is a great American".
This is false. I have no faith in Republicans doing the right thing for the right reasons, but there is a chance of them doing the right thing for the wrong reasons. Trump is able to do some things via executive orders and cabinet-level policymaking, but his liabilities (low approval rating, inability to work with others, willingness to blast his own party's leaders in a tweet if it helps his image) undermine their agenda. We haven't reached this point yet, but at some point, the uphill battle to get a single Republican to consider shivving Trump could become a race for the exits as they realize their own jobs are in jeopardy, and that the jobs aren't even worth keeping if they don't have a President who can get them their sweet, sweet tax cuts.
Make them say "no" to impeachment -- put as many of them as possible on record saying they stand behind Trump. Every minute they spend defending their decision not to impeach is a minute they can't fight to take away healthcare, destroy public education, or eliminate unions. And maybe at some point one of them pursues their own rational self-interest by wanting to be ahead of the curve on making a change at the top. Without Democrats out there pushing them, that never happens.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:21 AM on August 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
This is false. I have no faith in Republicans doing the right thing for the right reasons, but there is a chance of them doing the right thing for the wrong reasons. Trump is able to do some things via executive orders and cabinet-level policymaking, but his liabilities (low approval rating, inability to work with others, willingness to blast his own party's leaders in a tweet if it helps his image) undermine their agenda. We haven't reached this point yet, but at some point, the uphill battle to get a single Republican to consider shivving Trump could become a race for the exits as they realize their own jobs are in jeopardy, and that the jobs aren't even worth keeping if they don't have a President who can get them their sweet, sweet tax cuts.
Make them say "no" to impeachment -- put as many of them as possible on record saying they stand behind Trump. Every minute they spend defending their decision not to impeach is a minute they can't fight to take away healthcare, destroy public education, or eliminate unions. And maybe at some point one of them pursues their own rational self-interest by wanting to be ahead of the curve on making a change at the top. Without Democrats out there pushing them, that never happens.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:21 AM on August 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
He's taken names of who's pro-actively left so he can grandstand about how he'll always remember who betrayed him (that list is getting pretty long),
I wish I were rich and powerful enough to get on this list. Best I can hope for is being blocked on Twitter.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:23 AM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
I wish I were rich and powerful enough to get on this list. Best I can hope for is being blocked on Twitter.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:23 AM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
chris24: AP: How to describe extremists who rallied in Charlottesville
Related: 'Unite The Right': Charlottesville Rally Represented Collection Of Alt-Right Groups (NPR, Aug. 15, 2017)
like_neon: I'm confused, are BOTH councils disbanded? And which one is Trump saying he is dumping?
Both: Trump Disbands 2 Advisory Councils After String Of Resignations (NPR, Aug. 16, 2017) -- it includes this "official statement":lessful leader on Twitter, but via @realDonaldTrump, not @POTUS, for whatever (nothing) that is worth.
Mind you, there were a LOT of people who hadn't backed out yet, but this rather steady, if not particularly rushed, exodus definitely is shit for morale and public image.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:26 AM on August 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
Related: 'Unite The Right': Charlottesville Rally Represented Collection Of Alt-Right Groups (NPR, Aug. 15, 2017)
like_neon: I'm confused, are BOTH councils disbanded? And which one is Trump saying he is dumping?
Both: Trump Disbands 2 Advisory Councils After String Of Resignations (NPR, Aug. 16, 2017) -- it includes this "official statement":
Rather than putting pressure on the businesspeople of the Manufacturing Council & Strategy & Policy Forum, I am ending both. Thank you all!Our fear
Mind you, there were a LOT of people who hadn't backed out yet, but this rather steady, if not particularly rushed, exodus definitely is shit for morale and public image.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:26 AM on August 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
In fact I struggle to think of a non-human creature that deserves to be compared to 45
The hippopotamus. Violent, unpredictable, and fat, with small extremities relative to its body size.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 11:27 AM on August 16, 2017 [16 favorites]
The hippopotamus. Violent, unpredictable, and fat, with small extremities relative to its body size.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 11:27 AM on August 16, 2017 [16 favorites]
Trump just tweeted that HE is the one disbanding the councils.
Obligatory South Park reference
posted by Major Clanger at 11:28 AM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Obligatory South Park reference
posted by Major Clanger at 11:28 AM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
No, hippos are cute!
posted by agregoli at 11:29 AM on August 16, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by agregoli at 11:29 AM on August 16, 2017 [21 favorites]
He's taken names of who's pro-actively left so he can grandstand about how he'll always remember who betrayed him (that list is getting pretty long),
I wish I were rich and powerful enough to get on this list. Best I can hope for is being blocked on Twitter.
I keep thinking about stuff like this. Some Senator telling McConnell they've had enough, go to hell, and letting their guns blaze. Kelly walking up to Trump during his press conference yesterday like he had something to whisper in his ear, as chiefs of staff do, only to say "Kiss my ass, you're on your own" audibly enough to be picked up by the mic before walking out. And more.
But people who would do such things would never come close enough to Trump's orbit to have those moments in the first place. I keep thinking about the CEOs who dropped out of their candidacies for Secretary of the Army & Navy and others who passed on jobs like heading up the FBI. Whatever their sins, whatever they maybe didn't want uncovered, they saw a president (and a Republican-controlled Congress) that would overlook those problems...and they still had it in them to say, "Nah, I'm out."
Anyone with enough moral sense and fortitude to take a stand against Trump was never dumb enough to get on his train in the first place.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:30 AM on August 16, 2017 [35 favorites]
I wish I were rich and powerful enough to get on this list. Best I can hope for is being blocked on Twitter.
I keep thinking about stuff like this. Some Senator telling McConnell they've had enough, go to hell, and letting their guns blaze. Kelly walking up to Trump during his press conference yesterday like he had something to whisper in his ear, as chiefs of staff do, only to say "Kiss my ass, you're on your own" audibly enough to be picked up by the mic before walking out. And more.
But people who would do such things would never come close enough to Trump's orbit to have those moments in the first place. I keep thinking about the CEOs who dropped out of their candidacies for Secretary of the Army & Navy and others who passed on jobs like heading up the FBI. Whatever their sins, whatever they maybe didn't want uncovered, they saw a president (and a Republican-controlled Congress) that would overlook those problems...and they still had it in them to say, "Nah, I'm out."
Anyone with enough moral sense and fortitude to take a stand against Trump was never dumb enough to get on his train in the first place.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:30 AM on August 16, 2017 [35 favorites]
Thank god Kim Jong Un is an adult
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:33 AM on August 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:33 AM on August 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
In fact I struggle to think of a non-human creature that deserves to be compared to 45
Florida Skunk Ape
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:34 AM on August 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
Florida Skunk Ape
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:34 AM on August 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
BentFranklin: How about marching with the white supremacists dressed like this?
"White Power!"
"White flour!" *throw flour in the air, celebrate!*
"White Power!"
"Wife Power!" -- those clowns are OK by me.
Pseudonymous Cognomen: The hippopotamus. Violent, unpredictable, and fat, with small extremities relative to its body size.
Hippos aren't so much fat as they are really thick-skinned -- "18% of their impressive 1.5 tonne weight is actually skin. Beneath this 5cm (2”) thick hide hippos have a relatively thin layer of fat."
Definitely not very Trumpian there.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:34 AM on August 16, 2017 [30 favorites]
"White Power!"
"White flour!" *throw flour in the air, celebrate!*
"White Power!"
"Wife Power!" -- those clowns are OK by me.
Pseudonymous Cognomen: The hippopotamus. Violent, unpredictable, and fat, with small extremities relative to its body size.
Hippos aren't so much fat as they are really thick-skinned -- "18% of their impressive 1.5 tonne weight is actually skin. Beneath this 5cm (2”) thick hide hippos have a relatively thin layer of fat."
Definitely not very Trumpian there.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:34 AM on August 16, 2017 [30 favorites]
Whoa, I had no idea that hippos have 2" skin. That's crazy.
posted by OmieWise at 11:35 AM on August 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by OmieWise at 11:35 AM on August 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
Wait how do I evaluate the GE CEO's statement on leaving the Manufacturing Council? it calls out the president by name (+) but doesn't directly accuse him of anything more than "being troubling" (-) and makes a blanket statement that "GE has no tolerance for hate, bigotry, racism and the white supremacist extremism that the country witnessed in Charlottesville last weekend) (+), but maybe only half of one) and it came out after the council was disbanded(?)
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 11:35 AM on August 16, 2017
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 11:35 AM on August 16, 2017
I dunno. Presumably one or more of the remaining CEOs was working on their resignation statement when the disbandment announcement came out. They're probably torn between feeling dumb for not doing it before it was too late and feeling relieved that they never had to actually demonstrate any courage.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:38 AM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:38 AM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
No surprise, but what a piece of shit.
TPM: Johnson: Can We Move On From Trump Defending White Supremacists Already
TPM: Johnson: Can We Move On From Trump Defending White Supremacists Already
Sen. Ron Johnson (R-WI) signaled on Wednesday that he’s tired of questions about President Donald Trump’s controversial comments on the violent white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia.posted by chris24 at 11:42 AM on August 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
“You tell me what he needs to say so we can move beyond this,” he told reporters, according to the Cap Times. “He said it once. Again, I’m not going to speak for the President, I speak for myself.”
Johnson continued to express frustration over foreign policy and budgetary issues he said were being ignored in the meantime.
“We can continue to harp on President Trump’s reaction to Charlottesville, but from my standpoint, I’m concentrating on finding areas of agreement and doing everything I can under my committee’s jurisdiction and what I can do to improve the situation,” he said.
Johnson also said he doesn’t see any reason for impeachment. “Is it too early to think about Article 25 and impeachment?” asked one reporter. “On what grounds?” Johnson responded.
We can't have a president who says good people march with Nazis. We just can't.
♫ This is where the party ends ♫
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:44 AM on August 16, 2017 [32 favorites]
♫ This is where the party ends ♫
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:44 AM on August 16, 2017 [32 favorites]
Rolling Stone: Republicans Must Tell Trump to Go – Now: History won't judge them kindly if they stand by the president
From the Tech World:
CloudFlare ejects Daily Stormer.
Twitter ejects Daily Stormer.
YouTube ejects Daily Stormer.
@iSmashFizzle (Ashley Ford, Refinery29)
All the white people who were raised to think talking about race is racist now think BLM is a hate group because it deals with race.
- That's where that "we should all be colorblind' mess will get you. With a bunch of people who think saying 'Black' is verbally violent.
- When they say "We need to unite!" they mean, "YOU need to assimilate!" We make them uncomfortable by being. They think it's violence.
I know it just looks like I took a few choice quotes from the last 20 comments, but that's exactly what I did, and I think that's the story today.
Guys, we've reached a turning point. Not the bottom, but I think it's the "no, we all know, FUCK THIS" point. The mask on polite racism is off. The battle lines are drawn now.
I'm feeling good about that, because have you noticed how many allies we have? We're not gonna lose this...ASSUMING WE DON'T GET COMPLACENT. Pence as lame duck to 2020 plus reinvigorated Congress driven by liberal firebrands we elect in 2018 feels possible today.
DO NOT GIVE UP. Our side has the initiative now. Let's carry it and push it. Keep calling Senators and Reps, stay in the streets, and even though I'm an expat, I'm donate-happy right now, and I'm doubling down.
If we carry our fury through the quiet that follows 45's astonishment at being fucked by people he thought were solid allies, and his final blowout, and the floppy burst of conservative resurgence we'll see after he goes (and he will), we can have a sane society by 2024.
posted by saysthis at 11:46 AM on August 16, 2017 [38 favorites]
From the Tech World:
CloudFlare ejects Daily Stormer.
Twitter ejects Daily Stormer.
YouTube ejects Daily Stormer.
@iSmashFizzle (Ashley Ford, Refinery29)
All the white people who were raised to think talking about race is racist now think BLM is a hate group because it deals with race.
- That's where that "we should all be colorblind' mess will get you. With a bunch of people who think saying 'Black' is verbally violent.
- When they say "We need to unite!" they mean, "YOU need to assimilate!" We make them uncomfortable by being. They think it's violence.
I know it just looks like I took a few choice quotes from the last 20 comments, but that's exactly what I did, and I think that's the story today.
Guys, we've reached a turning point. Not the bottom, but I think it's the "no, we all know, FUCK THIS" point. The mask on polite racism is off. The battle lines are drawn now.
I'm feeling good about that, because have you noticed how many allies we have? We're not gonna lose this...ASSUMING WE DON'T GET COMPLACENT. Pence as lame duck to 2020 plus reinvigorated Congress driven by liberal firebrands we elect in 2018 feels possible today.
DO NOT GIVE UP. Our side has the initiative now. Let's carry it and push it. Keep calling Senators and Reps, stay in the streets, and even though I'm an expat, I'm donate-happy right now, and I'm doubling down.
If we carry our fury through the quiet that follows 45's astonishment at being fucked by people he thought were solid allies, and his final blowout, and the floppy burst of conservative resurgence we'll see after he goes (and he will), we can have a sane society by 2024.
posted by saysthis at 11:46 AM on August 16, 2017 [38 favorites]
Rather than putting pressure on the businesspeople of the Manufacturing Council & Strategy & Policy Forum, I am ending both. Thank you all!
This Trump fellow seems like quite the businessman!
posted by Room 641-A at 11:46 AM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
This Trump fellow seems like quite the businessman!
posted by Room 641-A at 11:46 AM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
Matt Levine, Money Stuff:
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:47 AM on August 16, 2017 [18 favorites]
I have to confess that it seems odd to me to denounce Nazism out of fealty to shareholder value. You can just denounce Nazism because you're not a Nazi! This is a financial newsletter, but I have never assumed that the operations of capital are autonomous and self-executing, or that executives are robots who are programmed to maximize shareholder value to the exclusion of all other considerations. Corporations exist in society, and are not above society's concerns. Businesses operate through human beings, who remain human even in their roles as CEOs. One would hope.
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:47 AM on August 16, 2017 [18 favorites]
I think hippo is a quite apt equivalent. They fling their loud diarrhea stream at everything nearby.
posted by yoga at 11:48 AM on August 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by yoga at 11:48 AM on August 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
More good news, in terms of things not getting worse: Texas Bathroom Bill Stymied Again As Legislature Ends Special Session (NPR, Aug. 16, 2017)
posted by filthy light thief at 11:49 AM on August 16, 2017 [30 favorites]
A special legislative session in Texas drew to a close late Tuesday without passing a bill to limit transgender people's access to bathrooms. The now-dead bill had the support of the state's governor and Senate, but it was opposed by powerful business interests and the Republican House speaker.Another first for 2017: I say "thank goodness for powerful business interests protecting transgender rights"
posted by filthy light thief at 11:49 AM on August 16, 2017 [30 favorites]
Guys, we've reached a turning point. Not the bottom, but I think it's the "no, we all know, FUCK THIS" point.
You go outside, turn around three times, curse and spit.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:49 AM on August 16, 2017 [57 favorites]
You go outside, turn around three times, curse and spit.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:49 AM on August 16, 2017 [57 favorites]
Stop maligning hippos, please. They are animals, their morality is not at play. Trump doesn't need to be compared to anything except past Presidents.
posted by agregoli at 11:49 AM on August 16, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by agregoli at 11:49 AM on August 16, 2017 [14 favorites]
Also swear to eat a cake. That's how it works, right?
posted by emjaybee at 11:50 AM on August 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 11:50 AM on August 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
You go outside, turn around three times, curse and spit.
Guys what if the ritual is also jinxed
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:50 AM on August 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
Guys what if the ritual is also jinxed
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:50 AM on August 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
Also, #dreampolitics, but I want a statue of Heather Heyer up by 2022 somewhere in DC.
posted by saysthis at 11:50 AM on August 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by saysthis at 11:50 AM on August 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
That's bad...
posted by TwoWordReview at 11:51 AM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by TwoWordReview at 11:51 AM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
You go outside, turn around three times, curse and spit.
Listen, I did this a lot in the run-up to the election. It didn't help. I'm starting to think it might be bogus.
Although what if you're supposed to go outside, turn around three times, spit THEN curse?
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:51 AM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Listen, I did this a lot in the run-up to the election. It didn't help. I'm starting to think it might be bogus.
Although what if you're supposed to go outside, turn around three times, spit THEN curse?
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:51 AM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
METAFILTER: sane society by 2024
posted by philip-random at 11:52 AM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by philip-random at 11:52 AM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
For those who are calling up their MOCs to demand impeachment and are being asked "on what grounds?" I'll re-post the list we came up with in previous threads...
- He's is violating the emoluments clause, and as a result is receiving bribes from foreign powers.posted by OnceUponATime at 11:52 AM on August 16, 2017 [61 favorites]
- There is evidence that his campaign colluded with Russia to spread false propaganda, hack into state elections databases, and sabotage his political opponents by stealing and publishing their private communications.
- He's obstructed justice by firing and trying to intimidate the head of the FBI who was investigating Russian activity
- He is undermining our national security by leaking intelligence to Russian agents, refusing to take responsibility for military engagements, and neglecting diplomacy
- He lies constantly and undermines trust in the US government
- He has no understanding of the Constitution and is ridiculously unqualified to lead. As demonstrated by the fact that he cannot tell the difference between the cause Washington fought for and the cause Lee fought for.
Looks like Pence is backing Trump. Shannon Pettypiece writing in Bloomberg, "Pence Says He Stands With Trump in Aftermath of Charlottesville".
posted by papercrane at 11:53 AM on August 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by papercrane at 11:53 AM on August 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
Herring gulls are fascists, through and through. Though which dumb-arse taught dinosaurs to fly...
The person I most wonder about right now is John Kelly, who must surely realise that there's nothing he can do to aid 45 be a real boy. I did enjoy John Kelly's Five Stages Of Grief though.
posted by Devonian at 11:55 AM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
The person I most wonder about right now is John Kelly, who must surely realise that there's nothing he can do to aid 45 be a real boy. I did enjoy John Kelly's Five Stages Of Grief though.
posted by Devonian at 11:55 AM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Last comment from me tonight (I'm a few beers in), but yeah, turn however many times and spit or spit somewhere in the middle, but what if that's the thing that works? If not, the call/email Congresscritters/protest things are things we can do. Don't lose sight of a future that isn't shit. We're America and...we did gay marriage, repairing the ozone, CREATING the Paris Accord, and legalizing weed. That was ALSO us.
Hope is what made that possible. DO NOT GIVE UP!
posted by saysthis at 11:57 AM on August 16, 2017 [19 favorites]
Hope is what made that possible. DO NOT GIVE UP!
posted by saysthis at 11:57 AM on August 16, 2017 [19 favorites]
Ms. DeFarge of Anytown, USA, do you need yarn are you almost finished? Thanks!
posted by riverlife at 12:00 PM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by riverlife at 12:00 PM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
NBC News reports that Jack Posobiec's security clearance has been suspended.
Note this item from three months ago: in his Bloomberg interview, Trump described Bannon's ideology as "alt-left." I don't think the term ever really had any meaning, but it certainly didn't after that point. But if Trump is going to blame the "alt-left" for Charleston, what the heck does it mean if he declares Bannon to be alt-left as well?
As the Rabbinical Council of America (the US's main association of Orthodox rabbis) releases a statement decrying Trump's "failing of moral leadership," and Breitbart blames Gary Cohen and Jared Kushner for CEOs leaving the councils from "institutions full of corporatists and globalists," Michael Shear at the Times checks in on the Jewish members of the administration: Jewish Trump Officials Silent on President’s Defense of Anti-Semitic Protesters.
Margaret Sullivan weighs in against "the view from nowhere": This week should put the nail in the coffin for ‘both sides’ journalism
Daily Beast, Fox’s Abby Huntsman Humiliates Herself as Guests Weep Over ‘Morally Bankrupt’ Trump, in which the Fox and Friends host desperately clings to bothsidesism despite both of her guests coming down quite passionately on one side.
AP: Internal FBI surveys show high support for ex-FBI head Comey. After the White House kept saying how much Comey needed to go because he the FBI rank-and-file didn't trust him anymore, the AP FOIA'd the internal surveys.
BuzzFeed's Monica Mark and Tamerra Griffin do some good reporting on how this all looks from Africa: This Is What Africans Think Of The US After The Racism On View In Charlottesville
Note this item from three months ago: in his Bloomberg interview, Trump described Bannon's ideology as "alt-left." I don't think the term ever really had any meaning, but it certainly didn't after that point. But if Trump is going to blame the "alt-left" for Charleston, what the heck does it mean if he declares Bannon to be alt-left as well?
As the Rabbinical Council of America (the US's main association of Orthodox rabbis) releases a statement decrying Trump's "failing of moral leadership," and Breitbart blames Gary Cohen and Jared Kushner for CEOs leaving the councils from "institutions full of corporatists and globalists," Michael Shear at the Times checks in on the Jewish members of the administration: Jewish Trump Officials Silent on President’s Defense of Anti-Semitic Protesters.
Margaret Sullivan weighs in against "the view from nowhere": This week should put the nail in the coffin for ‘both sides’ journalism
Daily Beast, Fox’s Abby Huntsman Humiliates Herself as Guests Weep Over ‘Morally Bankrupt’ Trump, in which the Fox and Friends host desperately clings to bothsidesism despite both of her guests coming down quite passionately on one side.
AP: Internal FBI surveys show high support for ex-FBI head Comey. After the White House kept saying how much Comey needed to go because he the FBI rank-and-file didn't trust him anymore, the AP FOIA'd the internal surveys.
BuzzFeed's Monica Mark and Tamerra Griffin do some good reporting on how this all looks from Africa: This Is What Africans Think Of The US After The Racism On View In Charlottesville
Even as far afield as Central African Republic, where more than 5,000 have been displaced during almost five years of hate-fueled conflict, Charlottesville was making headlines. In a country that’s barely held itself together during almost five years of violence, Didier Kassaï's cartoons in national newspapers frequently skewer those who’ve risen to power through promoting hate speech.posted by zachlipton at 12:02 PM on August 16, 2017 [73 favorites]
“For so long, the US was a model, and a country that we followed closely,” he said by phone from the CAR’s capital of Bangui, where he said news of Charlottesville had trickled into most homes.
“Since Trump’s arrival, we no longer see it as a dream country. For a country which recently elected a black man to now be in a place reminiscent of an era when the Klu Klux Klan was able to crush African Americans — it’s like the US’s ray of light has gone out on a global stage.”
Hope is what made that possible. DO NOT GIVE UP!
I dig the audacity of your hope. Si se puede.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:04 PM on August 16, 2017 [16 favorites]
I dig the audacity of your hope. Si se puede.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:04 PM on August 16, 2017 [16 favorites]
So I have spent the afternoon calling various representatives with the following script:
Hello, has Representative {Name} tarted drafting articles of impeachment? No? Why not? What are they waiting for? What will cause them to begin impeachment proceedings?
I mostly am just upsetting frontline staff as they fumble for an answer - but at least it will get added to the tally of constituents supporting impeachment.
posted by Suffocating Kitty at 12:07 PM on August 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
Hello, has Representative {Name} tarted drafting articles of impeachment? No? Why not? What are they waiting for? What will cause them to begin impeachment proceedings?
I mostly am just upsetting frontline staff as they fumble for an answer - but at least it will get added to the tally of constituents supporting impeachment.
posted by Suffocating Kitty at 12:07 PM on August 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
Daily Beast, Fox’s Abby Huntsman Humiliates Herself as Guests Weep Over ‘Morally Bankrupt’ Trump, in which the Fox and Friends host desperately clings to bothsidesism despite both of her guests coming down quite passionately on one side.
Warning: really difficult to watch this video. Jesus foxnews, turn yourself off.
posted by dis_integration at 12:07 PM on August 16, 2017 [18 favorites]
Warning: really difficult to watch this video. Jesus foxnews, turn yourself off.
posted by dis_integration at 12:07 PM on August 16, 2017 [18 favorites]
Si se puede.
“Since Trump’s arrival, we no longer see it as a dream country. For a country which recently elected a black man to now be in a place reminiscent of an era when the Klu Klux Klan was able to crush African Americans — it’s like the US’s ray of light has gone out on a global stage.”
OK for real last post but - ^^^^Turn that shit back on. Since Trump. Ain't hard.
posted by saysthis at 12:09 PM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
“Since Trump’s arrival, we no longer see it as a dream country. For a country which recently elected a black man to now be in a place reminiscent of an era when the Klu Klux Klan was able to crush African Americans — it’s like the US’s ray of light has gone out on a global stage.”
OK for real last post but - ^^^^Turn that shit back on. Since Trump. Ain't hard.
posted by saysthis at 12:09 PM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Breaking news headline popped up on my phone:
Trump kills CEO...and I thought, surely this! And then clicked through only to realize the entire headline was:
Trump kills CEO Advisory Councilsposted by zakur at 12:15 PM on August 16, 2017 [22 favorites]
"Pence Says He Stands With Trump in Aftermath of Charlottesville".
Aw, a moral chasm built for two (plus Mother), ain't that sweet?
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:18 PM on August 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
Aw, a moral chasm built for two (plus Mother), ain't that sweet?
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:18 PM on August 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
Report: Queasy Aussies Killed Trump’s Casino Bid Over “Mafia Connections”
Note that this is coming out of a Murdoch operation . . .
posted by waitingtoderail at 12:19 PM on August 16, 2017 [16 favorites]
Note that this is coming out of a Murdoch operation . . .
posted by waitingtoderail at 12:19 PM on August 16, 2017 [16 favorites]
I really think Pence isn't getting out of this unscathed. I think he thinks he is, that he'll be the next GOP President (or at least have a decent shot to be), but he ain't.
posted by OmieWise at 12:20 PM on August 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by OmieWise at 12:20 PM on August 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
From WaPo:
posted by yasaman at 12:21 PM on August 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
Vice President Pence says he is standing by President Trump in the aftermath of deadly violence at a white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, but he declined Wednesday to defend the president’s statement from the day before that “both sides” were to blame.Some real contortionism there from Pence. Obviously this is a moral failure and means he's a Nazi by default, but I'm not surprised that this is the best he can do.
Asked at a news conference whether he agreed with Trump that there were good people among the white supremacist demonstrators, and that there was blame to be had on both sides, Pence largely sidestepped the question.
posted by yasaman at 12:21 PM on August 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
Spicey, Anagram, and the Mooch, in their separate undisclosed locations, are all going, "Hooray for blissful unemployment." Meanwhile, what the fucking fuck is Hope Hicks thinking? Does she need some type of self-harm intervention?
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:22 PM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:22 PM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
Somehow Pence is able to stare adoringly at Trump in every meeting without projectile puking all over the place
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:23 PM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:23 PM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
Note that this is coming out of a Murdoch operation . . .
Murdoch's despised Trump from the start.
posted by Coventry at 12:23 PM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Murdoch's despised Trump from the start.
posted by Coventry at 12:23 PM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
lalex: "@kileykroh: "Did he just defend racists, then promote his winery and leave?"
@ZeeshamAleem: "A 62 character summary of the Trump presidency""
This is a far too charitable reading of what actually went down.
Transcript [real]:
When asked by a reporter, he was unable to recall the location or the nature of the property.
After a reporter hinted that the property was a winery, he jumped on that single fact, despite being unable to provide a single meaningful detail that indicated he had any recollection whatsoever of the property, or the nature of its operation as a winery. All he had were a series of hollow, inaccurate, and inappropriate boasts.
He is a deplorable racist, and he is also clearly unwell. He is both of those things. Either of them alone should be enough to demand his immediate removal from office.
posted by schmod at 12:24 PM on August 16, 2017 [77 favorites]
@ZeeshamAleem: "A 62 character summary of the Trump presidency""
This is a far too charitable reading of what actually went down.
Transcript [real]:
Reporter 3: Do you think you're helping to heal the nation?The president attempted to derail his own press-conference by mentioning that he owns property near the location of a national tragedy.
Trump: I own a house in Charlottesville. Does anyone know I own a house in Charlottesville?
Reporter: Where is it?
Trump: Oh, boy, it's going to be- it's in Charlottesville, you'll see.
Reporter: Is it in the winery or something?
Trump: It's a- it is the winery.
[Reporters shout questions.]
Trump: I mean, I know a lot about Charlottesville. Charlottesville is a great place that's been very badly hurt over the last couple of days. I own- I own actually one of the largest wineries in the United States that's in Charlottesville.
When asked by a reporter, he was unable to recall the location or the nature of the property.
After a reporter hinted that the property was a winery, he jumped on that single fact, despite being unable to provide a single meaningful detail that indicated he had any recollection whatsoever of the property, or the nature of its operation as a winery. All he had were a series of hollow, inaccurate, and inappropriate boasts.
He is a deplorable racist, and he is also clearly unwell. He is both of those things. Either of them alone should be enough to demand his immediate removal from office.
posted by schmod at 12:24 PM on August 16, 2017 [77 favorites]
TPM: [Sen. Ron Johnson (R-WI)]: Can We Move On From Trump Defending White Supremacists Already
Only this: "Dear Mr. Secretary, I hereby resign the Office of President of the United States."
posted by Gelatin at 12:24 PM on August 16, 2017 [63 favorites]
“You tell me what he needs to say so we can move beyond this,” he told reporters, according to the Cap Times.
Only this: "Dear Mr. Secretary, I hereby resign the Office of President of the United States."
posted by Gelatin at 12:24 PM on August 16, 2017 [63 favorites]
To briefly continue the side discussion of Chrystia Freeland:
It's pretty standard for remarks to be given in both English and French by a minister of the sitting government (if they're bilingual) - and it makes sense that she's making the remarks in Spanish since she speaks it as well.
But you can't tell me she's not trolling just a wee bit there.
Her role in Canadian government feels a little like trolling just for her being assigned to it - she was promoted to Foreign Affairs minister 10 days before Trump was inaugurated. She's a former journalist who literally wrote the book on plutocrats, and was personally banned from Russia by Vladimir Putin himself.
Of course back then, you had to pick someone who fought Russia to repudiate Donald Trump. These days, you can just do it by not hiring a Nazi.
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 12:25 PM on August 16, 2017 [22 favorites]
It's pretty standard for remarks to be given in both English and French by a minister of the sitting government (if they're bilingual) - and it makes sense that she's making the remarks in Spanish since she speaks it as well.
But you can't tell me she's not trolling just a wee bit there.
Her role in Canadian government feels a little like trolling just for her being assigned to it - she was promoted to Foreign Affairs minister 10 days before Trump was inaugurated. She's a former journalist who literally wrote the book on plutocrats, and was personally banned from Russia by Vladimir Putin himself.
Of course back then, you had to pick someone who fought Russia to repudiate Donald Trump. These days, you can just do it by not hiring a Nazi.
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 12:25 PM on August 16, 2017 [22 favorites]
I really think Pence isn't getting out of this unscathed. I think he thinks he is, that he'll be the next GOP President (or at least have a decent shot to be), but he ain't.
My feeling is that although Pence may at least have Nazi sympathies he is well aware of the possibility of Trump going down and is doing whatever he can to avoid having Trump direct his ire his direction. He is hedging his bets.
Pence is awful, and not super bright but he does appear to have some clue about how to play politics. Relatively speaking of course.
posted by Jalliah at 12:26 PM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
My feeling is that although Pence may at least have Nazi sympathies he is well aware of the possibility of Trump going down and is doing whatever he can to avoid having Trump direct his ire his direction. He is hedging his bets.
Pence is awful, and not super bright but he does appear to have some clue about how to play politics. Relatively speaking of course.
posted by Jalliah at 12:26 PM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Meanwhile, what the fucking fuck is Hope Hicks thinking?
Maybe she's thinking: Last rat on the ship before it sinks = better book deal afterward.
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:27 PM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Maybe she's thinking: Last rat on the ship before it sinks = better book deal afterward.
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:27 PM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
After a reporter hinted that the property was a winery, he jumped on that single fact, despite being unable to provide a single meaningful detail that indicated he had any recollection whatsoever of the property, or the nature of its operation as a winery. All he had were a series of hollow, inaccurate, and inappropriate boasts.
He doesn't own the winery. Eric does.
posted by waitingtoderail at 12:30 PM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
He doesn't own the winery. Eric does.
posted by waitingtoderail at 12:30 PM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Pence is awful, and not super bright but he does appear to have some clue about how to play politics.
It's perfectly possible for him to play a loyal soldier while still lining up to be the main beneficiary of Donald's downfall. It would probably help him win over a divided party, too, that he was this loyal party man who followed the chosen leader, but when the nation called upon him to shoulder a heavy burden blah blah blah.
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:31 PM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's perfectly possible for him to play a loyal soldier while still lining up to be the main beneficiary of Donald's downfall. It would probably help him win over a divided party, too, that he was this loyal party man who followed the chosen leader, but when the nation called upon him to shoulder a heavy burden blah blah blah.
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:31 PM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Pence is awful, and not super bright but he does appear to have some clue about how to play politics. Relatively speaking of course.
As one might expect of a former right-wing talk radio personality, Pence isn't particularly bright, isn't used to having to deal with anything that isn't of the echo chamber, and vastly overestimates the popularity of his positions. He made a foul mess of the anti-gay legislation he championed as governor of Indiana (nearly losing GenCon, which is sold out this year and bringing tens of thousands of people with money to spend to Indianapolis, in the process), and then tried to pretend it was nothing to do with him.
Like many Republicans, he has the tiger of the crazy base by the tail; perhaps unlike some of them, he probably truly believes. But it's no surprise at all that he doesn't have the moral character to denounce Trump.
posted by Gelatin at 12:33 PM on August 16, 2017 [17 favorites]
As one might expect of a former right-wing talk radio personality, Pence isn't particularly bright, isn't used to having to deal with anything that isn't of the echo chamber, and vastly overestimates the popularity of his positions. He made a foul mess of the anti-gay legislation he championed as governor of Indiana (nearly losing GenCon, which is sold out this year and bringing tens of thousands of people with money to spend to Indianapolis, in the process), and then tried to pretend it was nothing to do with him.
Like many Republicans, he has the tiger of the crazy base by the tail; perhaps unlike some of them, he probably truly believes. But it's no surprise at all that he doesn't have the moral character to denounce Trump.
posted by Gelatin at 12:33 PM on August 16, 2017 [17 favorites]
possibly from The-Onion-predicts-the-future department [fake, for now]
posted by entropicamericana at 12:34 PM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 12:34 PM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
Maybe she's thinking: Last rat on the ship before it sinks = better book deal afterward.
this looks more like a "last rat in the bunker" situation and those don't tend to end with book deals
posted by murphy slaw at 12:39 PM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
this looks more like a "last rat in the bunker" situation and those don't tend to end with book deals
posted by murphy slaw at 12:39 PM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
yellowbinder: No matter how he leaves office, I fully expect his last words on the public stage to be 'You knew damn well I was a snake before you took me in.'
I'm about five hours behind, but I assume you know that Trump says those particular words quite a lot. Trump's Mirror, indeed.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 12:41 PM on August 16, 2017
I'm about five hours behind, but I assume you know that Trump says those particular words quite a lot. Trump's Mirror, indeed.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 12:41 PM on August 16, 2017
Of course, if this is what takes Trump down, what a waste of goddamn time by the Republicans, he's the same asshole today he was on January 20 when he rode down that fucking escalator two years ago and every one of them knew it then. FTFY.
And the same person who the Reform Party ended up not going with AND Pat Buchanan called a Hitler-Lover. Back 17 years ago. (Everyone feel OK about agreeing with Pat?)
Say, what DOES Jesse Ventura have to say on Ol Donnie?
posted by rough ashlar at 12:41 PM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
And the same person who the Reform Party ended up not going with AND Pat Buchanan called a Hitler-Lover. Back 17 years ago. (Everyone feel OK about agreeing with Pat?)
Say, what DOES Jesse Ventura have to say on Ol Donnie?
posted by rough ashlar at 12:41 PM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Meanwhile, what the fucking fuck is Hope Hicks thinking?
The Trump family has taken a shine to her and vice-versa. Though her own family is well connected, she doesn't have the experience to land as easily as other former Trump aids. I think working on Ivanka's account was like her first or second job out of college? She's young and Trumpworld is what she knows. It's easy in that situation to nod and go with it when the boss says "Hey, you're Interim."
I think she'll be on the White House lawn to close up shop when Trump's chopper takes off for the final time, in whatever time and circumstances that is.
posted by AndrewInDC at 12:45 PM on August 16, 2017
The Trump family has taken a shine to her and vice-versa. Though her own family is well connected, she doesn't have the experience to land as easily as other former Trump aids. I think working on Ivanka's account was like her first or second job out of college? She's young and Trumpworld is what she knows. It's easy in that situation to nod and go with it when the boss says "Hey, you're Interim."
I think she'll be on the White House lawn to close up shop when Trump's chopper takes off for the final time, in whatever time and circumstances that is.
posted by AndrewInDC at 12:45 PM on August 16, 2017
One of the people on Mueller's investigation team just left to go back to the FBI.
posted by lazugod at 12:50 PM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by lazugod at 12:50 PM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
That's where that "we should all be colorblind' mess will get you. With a bunch of people who think saying 'Black' is verbally violent.
...
- This is how you end up blaming BLM for what happened in Charlottesville. This is how that lie was born. I don't know how fix that.
- I don't know that it's my job to fix that either. The only thing I know for sure is that I have no intention of being quiet. Now or ever.
You and Jane Elliott both.
posted by flabdablet at 12:51 PM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
...
- This is how you end up blaming BLM for what happened in Charlottesville. This is how that lie was born. I don't know how fix that.
- I don't know that it's my job to fix that either. The only thing I know for sure is that I have no intention of being quiet. Now or ever.
You and Jane Elliott both.
posted by flabdablet at 12:51 PM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Alex Hirsh (creator of Gravity Falls) on Twitter: If anyone felt so inclined to do a drawing of Grunkle Stan punching a Nazi I'd be very cool with that
And the internet responds!
posted by robocop is bleeding at 12:52 PM on August 16, 2017 [22 favorites]
And the internet responds!
posted by robocop is bleeding at 12:52 PM on August 16, 2017 [22 favorites]
Recall filed against Democratic state Sen. Nicole Cannizzaro; third senator targeted in recall efforts [The Nevada Independent]
Democratic State Sen. Nicole Cannizzaro is now the third Southern Nevada lawmaker facing a potential recall in what appears to be a roundabout Republican strategy to secure an elusive majority in the Democrat-controlled Senate before the next legislative session. [...] No Nevada legislator has ever been successfully recalled from office.posted by melissasaurus at 12:55 PM on August 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
Similar petitions were filed last week against Democratic Sen. Joyce Woodhouse and independent Sen. Patricia Farley, who was elected as a Republican but switched party registration and caucused with Democrats during the 2017 legislative session.
One of the signers of the recall petition against Farley, Keystone Corporation chairman and president John Gibson, said last week that he was told that Farley’s vote in favor of a $1.1 billion tax increase during the 2015 legislative session, criminal justice reform efforts and a bill to remove the prevailing wage exemption for construction for schools and the Nevada System of Higher Education were reasons for the recall as outlined to him by Ryan Hamilton, a consultant with j3 Strategies. [...]
A signature-gatherer told one Henderson resident last week that Woodhouse’s support for a “sanctuary city” bill was why she was being recalled. Woodhouse co-sponsored a bill that would have limited the ability of local law enforcement to provide certain immigration information to the federal government and sponsored a bill to bar government entities from sharing certain immigration data with the federal government.
Somehow Pence is able to stare adoringly at Trump in every meeting without projectile puking all over the place
Have you considered that he's not very smart, and that also he's really an asshole?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:00 PM on August 16, 2017 [42 favorites]
Have you considered that he's not very smart, and that also he's really an asshole?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:00 PM on August 16, 2017 [42 favorites]
Montreal, of all places, just removed a Confederate memorial. Those damn things are everywhere.
The building it was on takes up a full city block. In what might or might not have been a sly bit of trolling, the plaque was not at the front entrance on Saint-Catherine, nor at the rear doors on Maisonneuve, nor even on Aylmer but on the west side, on Union.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:00 PM on August 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
The building it was on takes up a full city block. In what might or might not have been a sly bit of trolling, the plaque was not at the front entrance on Saint-Catherine, nor at the rear doors on Maisonneuve, nor even on Aylmer but on the west side, on Union.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:00 PM on August 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
Oh, so the latest tactic is if you don't win in the election, you file a recall against the person who did win? Cool. That sounds fair. /s
posted by Autumnheart at 1:00 PM on August 16, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by Autumnheart at 1:00 PM on August 16, 2017 [18 favorites]
Spicey, Anagram, and the Mooch, in their separate undisclosed locations, are all going, "Hooray for blissful unemployment." Meanwhile, what the fucking fuck is Hope Hicks thinking? Does she need some type of self-harm intervention?
I'm thinking Trump will replace his staff with teenagers as the next step so that they can evade prosecution and publicly testifying.
posted by srboisvert at 1:00 PM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm thinking Trump will replace his staff with teenagers as the next step so that they can evade prosecution and publicly testifying.
posted by srboisvert at 1:00 PM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
In other news, Jeff Sessions gave a speech on sanctuary cities in which he blames Chicago's crime rate on undocumented immigrants. (Twitter thread with text of prepared remarks, Mayor Emanuel's response, and some good pointing out of Sessions' flawed logic)
Unbelievable timing. Jesus, read the room!
posted by marshmallow peep at 1:01 PM on August 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
Unbelievable timing. Jesus, read the room!
posted by marshmallow peep at 1:01 PM on August 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
Most of the Right-Wing Media Seems Embarrassed by the Charlottesville Neo-Nazis
I took a glance at Breitbart today, because I am a glutton for punishment, and I can confirm that they are in 100% desperate blame-shifting mode. Most of their headlines are tu quoque stuff about monuments to racist Democrats and how they should be focusing on people like Woodrow Wilson (which, well, you're late to the party, or you would be if you were remotely sincere) and handwringing about slippery-slope statue removal. They are also attempting to blame the violence on "antifa" (commenters are saying that antifa are really to blame for the car attack because the driver was fleeing them, and that antifa are the real terrorists [lol/sigh/???]). Actual condemnations or even acknowledgements of right-wing violence and neo-Nazis are very thin on the ground.
posted by en forme de poire at 1:01 PM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
I took a glance at Breitbart today, because I am a glutton for punishment, and I can confirm that they are in 100% desperate blame-shifting mode. Most of their headlines are tu quoque stuff about monuments to racist Democrats and how they should be focusing on people like Woodrow Wilson (which, well, you're late to the party, or you would be if you were remotely sincere) and handwringing about slippery-slope statue removal. They are also attempting to blame the violence on "antifa" (commenters are saying that antifa are really to blame for the car attack because the driver was fleeing them, and that antifa are the real terrorists [lol/sigh/???]). Actual condemnations or even acknowledgements of right-wing violence and neo-Nazis are very thin on the ground.
posted by en forme de poire at 1:01 PM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Hippos aren't so much fat as they are really thick-skinned ... Definitely not very Trumpian there.
The essential mystery of Trump is exactly that. Where did anybody that thin-skinned get so much hide?
posted by flabdablet at 1:04 PM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
The essential mystery of Trump is exactly that. Where did anybody that thin-skinned get so much hide?
posted by flabdablet at 1:04 PM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Pence was about to be run out of Indiana, his political career was over until Trump called. Of course he jumped at the chance for a second life, and now he's so close to the Presidency through Trump being unlikely to make it a full term that it must look to him exactly like being chosen by God. When he looks at Trump, he's quite literally seeing a devine miracle.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:08 PM on August 16, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:08 PM on August 16, 2017 [17 favorites]
Pseudonymous Cognomen: The hippopotamus. Violent, unpredictable, and fat, with small extremities relative to its body size.
I memeified that for you.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:10 PM on August 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
I memeified that for you.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:10 PM on August 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
WSJ confirms that Trump's Strategic and Policy Forum decided to disband, its leader, Blackstone CEO Stephen Schwarzman called Trump to inform him, and then Trump tweeted out that he was ending it. It's the ultimate "you're not breaking up with me because I'm breaking up with you."
Also, am I the only one who can't stop thinking of The Simpsons "The PTA Disbands" whenever I hear about the councils disbanding?
posted by zachlipton at 1:10 PM on August 16, 2017 [28 favorites]
Also, am I the only one who can't stop thinking of The Simpsons "The PTA Disbands" whenever I hear about the councils disbanding?
posted by zachlipton at 1:10 PM on August 16, 2017 [28 favorites]
melissasaurus: Recall filed against Democratic state Sen. Nicole Cannizzaro; third senator targeted in recall efforts
Really, I hope this backfires in a big way, and if the recall efforts succeed, they get replaced with more liberal voices.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:14 PM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
Democratic State Sen. Nicole Cannizzaro is now the third Southern Nevada lawmaker facing a potential recall in what appears to be a roundabout Republican strategy to secure an elusive majority in the Democrat-controlled Senate before the next legislative session. [...] No Nevada legislator has ever been successfully recalled from office.So the Nevada GOP thinks that 1) they can succeed where people have failed in the past, and 2) they'll succeed in this time of Trump and the GOP with declining approval ratings? Dems aren't great, but they're on a recent plateau, and both of those polls were last updated in mid-June, and Overtly Racist Trump is not likely to help the GOP at the state level.
Really, I hope this backfires in a big way, and if the recall efforts succeed, they get replaced with more liberal voices.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:14 PM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
Also, am I the only one who can't stop thinking of The Simpsons "The PTA Disbands" whenever I hear about the councils disbanding?
Also, when Edna K is wrestling for the PA mic with Skinner. Skinner gets it and says "This is an emergency announcement. All is well in the school. My authority as principal is total..." before Edna wrestles it back to announce the strike.
posted by history_denier at 1:21 PM on August 16, 2017 [13 favorites]
Also, when Edna K is wrestling for the PA mic with Skinner. Skinner gets it and says "This is an emergency announcement. All is well in the school. My authority as principal is total..." before Edna wrestles it back to announce the strike.
posted by history_denier at 1:21 PM on August 16, 2017 [13 favorites]
It's not clear what sway he has with Trump, but Javier Palomarez, who serves on President Trump's National Diversity Council, wants Bannon out. Palomarez, president and CEO of the U.S. Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, plans to stay on the Diversity Council for now, only to keep a Hispanic person near the White House.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:21 PM on August 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
"If I walk away, if I give up in frustration, the only people who win are the Steve Bannons and Steve Millers of this world," Palomarez told MSNBC's "Morning Joe" program. "They would love to have one less Hispanic with free access to the White House, to the president, to Ivanka Trump and several of the secretaries."Of Bannon, Javier said "This guy is anti everything my association stands for," without saying that Bannon is also a white supremacist. He also doesn't mention Gorka or Stephen Miller, but he can cleanly say Bannon is an isolationist who doesn't understand that isolation would ruin the US economy in numerous ways.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:21 PM on August 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
I'd just like to point out that all three Nevada senators the GOP is targeting for recall are women: Sen. Nicole Cannizzaro, Sen. Joyce Woodhouse and Sen. Patricia Farley.
Coincidence or misogyny, you decide...
posted by syzygy at 1:24 PM on August 16, 2017 [61 favorites]
Coincidence or misogyny, you decide...
posted by syzygy at 1:24 PM on August 16, 2017 [61 favorites]
Just like the only CEO who got personally blasted by Trump is African American. I know how I decided in that case.
posted by OmieWise at 1:27 PM on August 16, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by OmieWise at 1:27 PM on August 16, 2017 [27 favorites]
MetaFilter: Violent, unpredictable, and fat, with small extremities relative to its body size.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:33 PM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 1:33 PM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
cakebet: a member or former member of the administration will use a racial slur on live TV before Halloween.
posted by murphy slaw at 1:34 PM on August 16, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 1:34 PM on August 16, 2017 [24 favorites]
I really think Pence isn't getting out of this unscathed. I think he thinks he is, that he'll be the next GOP President (or at least have a decent shot to be), but he ain't.
Odds are good he becomes president some time before 2020, but he will be damaged by his involvement with this crew (if not facing indictment himself) and has no chance ot getting elected then.
Here's a question: I know that special prosecutors don't generally indict sitting presidents, preferring to issue a report so that Congress may consider impeachment. But is this true for Vice Presidents, too? Or might Mueller rush out an indictment on Pence before a theoretical Trump resignation while he still can?
Agnew was indicted not by the special prosecutor but by a US attorney investigating general corruption in Baltimore, and who was surprised when the VP's name came up.
posted by msalt at 1:52 PM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Odds are good he becomes president some time before 2020, but he will be damaged by his involvement with this crew (if not facing indictment himself) and has no chance ot getting elected then.
Here's a question: I know that special prosecutors don't generally indict sitting presidents, preferring to issue a report so that Congress may consider impeachment. But is this true for Vice Presidents, too? Or might Mueller rush out an indictment on Pence before a theoretical Trump resignation while he still can?
Agnew was indicted not by the special prosecutor but by a US attorney investigating general corruption in Baltimore, and who was surprised when the VP's name came up.
posted by msalt at 1:52 PM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
I expected a readout like this. Julianna Goldman of CBS News:
@juliannagoldman: Source: @realDonaldTrump Strategic & Policy CEO group's original statement didn't say "The President & we are disbanding," simply said "We".
Sources: On today's call, 1 CEO pushed back against the idea of disbanding, but came around, saying it was the right thing to do.
CEO call lasted about 45 mins. At end, CEOs wondered how they got to this point, noting Charlottesville, pulling out of Paris Climate Accord
Also on CEO call, 1 member asked if someone could ask @realDonaldTrump not to lash out at group on Twitter once he was told of decision
Let's just say they were sort of joking...sort of not.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:04 PM on August 16, 2017 [23 favorites]
@juliannagoldman: Source: @realDonaldTrump Strategic & Policy CEO group's original statement didn't say "The President & we are disbanding," simply said "We".
Sources: On today's call, 1 CEO pushed back against the idea of disbanding, but came around, saying it was the right thing to do.
CEO call lasted about 45 mins. At end, CEOs wondered how they got to this point, noting Charlottesville, pulling out of Paris Climate Accord
Also on CEO call, 1 member asked if someone could ask @realDonaldTrump not to lash out at group on Twitter once he was told of decision
Let's just say they were sort of joking...sort of not.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:04 PM on August 16, 2017 [23 favorites]
Sometimes I find myself wanting to dig up a link or a comment from earlier in the thread... So I do "find in page" searches for words like "nuclear" "mafia" "Russia" "white supremacist"...
It always amazes me how many hits I get for search terms like that on threads about US politics. I try to imagine getting ANY hits for those words on US politics discussions prior to 2016. And it feels surreal all over again.
Just pausing once again to marvel at how NOT NORMAL everything is now. (Is there a way to capture this somehow with word clouds?)
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:08 PM on August 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
It always amazes me how many hits I get for search terms like that on threads about US politics. I try to imagine getting ANY hits for those words on US politics discussions prior to 2016. And it feels surreal all over again.
Just pausing once again to marvel at how NOT NORMAL everything is now. (Is there a way to capture this somehow with word clouds?)
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:08 PM on August 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
Trump's Gallup approval is at its lowest level ever (34%, and that was before his Trump Tower meltdown). At the six-month mark he had "the worst approval rating in the last seven decades" (36%).
Has any president ever been reelected with approval numbers this low? Clinton was at 37% in June 1993.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:11 PM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Has any president ever been reelected with approval numbers this low? Clinton was at 37% in June 1993.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:11 PM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
> Pence backs Trump's Charlottesville rhetoric: 'I stand with the president'
posted by Hot Pastrami! at 5:08 PM on August 16 [+] [!] [quote]
Moar like Lukewarm Meatloaf, amirite?
posted by tonycpsu at 2:12 PM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Hot Pastrami! at 5:08 PM on August 16 [+] [!] [quote]
Moar like Lukewarm Meatloaf, amirite?
posted by tonycpsu at 2:12 PM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Wherein Jack Prosobiec attempts a rather pathetic attempt at whataboutism by retweeting an anemic seven person protest at the Lenin statue in Seattle.
posted by Existential Dread at 2:13 PM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Existential Dread at 2:13 PM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
i don't think anyone would stop a slovakian english teacher from buying a junked confederate statue and erecting it in poprad except for maybe fellow slovaks
posted by entropicamericana at 2:20 PM on August 16, 2017
posted by entropicamericana at 2:20 PM on August 16, 2017
In re Mike Pence: I agree that he's got a decent shot of become Prez by default. I think he thinks he'll be in a good position after that, though, that he'll be the GOP's savior. I don't think so.
I'd feel a lot better about the GOP imploding if I didn't feel like Trump is quite likely to destroy the American Experiment before this is all over.
posted by OmieWise at 2:27 PM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'd feel a lot better about the GOP imploding if I didn't feel like Trump is quite likely to destroy the American Experiment before this is all over.
posted by OmieWise at 2:27 PM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Say, what DOES Jesse Ventura have to say on Ol Donnie?
He was a supporter and long-time friend of Trump until about a month after the inauguration. Had editorials like this published: Jesse Ventura: 'I'm Glad to See' Donald Trump Destroy the GOP.
Then the Trump administration instituted a crackdown on weed and Ventura stopped supporting him.
In June, Ventura was hired by Russian media outlet RT and now he appears to support Trump again. Oh, and he says that since we've interfered in foreign elections, it's okay that Russia interfered in ours.
posted by zarq at 2:28 PM on August 16, 2017 [19 favorites]
He was a supporter and long-time friend of Trump until about a month after the inauguration. Had editorials like this published: Jesse Ventura: 'I'm Glad to See' Donald Trump Destroy the GOP.
Then the Trump administration instituted a crackdown on weed and Ventura stopped supporting him.
In June, Ventura was hired by Russian media outlet RT and now he appears to support Trump again. Oh, and he says that since we've interfered in foreign elections, it's okay that Russia interfered in ours.
posted by zarq at 2:28 PM on August 16, 2017 [19 favorites]
@AliVelshi: BREAKING: @CNBC confirms that @realDonaldTrump “Strategic and Policy Forum” (different from Manufacturing Council) has disbanded
@benwikler (MoveOn) Retweeted Ali Velshi
A few quick thoughts on why it matters that CEOs are jumping ship en masse from Trump. 1/
- First, kudos to all the activists around the US and world—especially @ColorOfChange—who've ramped up massive levels of lightning pressure 2/
- and huge thanks to the anonymous folks inside these corporations who've been fighting to get their bosses to do the right thing. Crucial! 3/
- These victories are always preceded by splits within the targets. Goal for outside activism is to empower those on the right side. 4/
- Splitting off the elite of the business world from the Trump administration the same strategy writ large. 5/
- First of all, it's an important tactical victory in the fight for a decent society. Nazism and white supremacy should be absolutely toxic 6/
- It might seem like a no-brainer that these companies would go, but in a world where they'd stayed, that would've sent a poisonous message 7/
- ...telling those who incite violent hatred and reap its rewards that they can still benefit from cover and respectability from biz elites 8/
- Trump's comments created a boiling-point moment where standing by him meant endorsing his claim: "very fine people" marched with torches 9/
- But there's a deeper tectonic shift that these resignations may foreshadow: an end to turning a blind eye by economic establishment 10/
- So far, Trump has been propped up by a Devil's Bargain btw rabid racists, opportunistic partisans, and the wealthy seeking tax cuts 11/
- Businesses justified participation on Trump's councils on economic grounds: a way to advance their corporate interests. 12/
- But if horror & public outrage at Trump's racism is strong enough now to peel huge companies away, that bargain may be falling apart. 13/
- The presence of these corporate titans on Trump's council was reassuring for tax-cut Republicans. That cover is now gone. Riskier for Rs 14/
- Elected Republicans standing with Trump are now naked, exposed, and alone. The public is gone. The business community is gone. What now? 15/
- With corporate America off the Trump train, the Q is why elected Republicans are still hanging off the sides as it heads off a cliff 16/
- It is now time for Congressional Republicans to join Democrats in formally censuring Donald Trump. 17/
- And then, stepping back: once the Republican donor class no longer thinks Trump can deliver its tax cuts, loyalty fades fast. 18/
- Don't want to make any predictions about fate of the Trump presidency. But revolt of a pillar of R power makes it... possibly shorter. 19/
- This is a legitimately big deal. All who took part in pressuring these companies over the last few days/weeks/months should feel proud. /20
posted by chris24 at 2:28 PM on August 16, 2017 [45 favorites]
@benwikler (MoveOn) Retweeted Ali Velshi
A few quick thoughts on why it matters that CEOs are jumping ship en masse from Trump. 1/
- First, kudos to all the activists around the US and world—especially @ColorOfChange—who've ramped up massive levels of lightning pressure 2/
- and huge thanks to the anonymous folks inside these corporations who've been fighting to get their bosses to do the right thing. Crucial! 3/
- These victories are always preceded by splits within the targets. Goal for outside activism is to empower those on the right side. 4/
- Splitting off the elite of the business world from the Trump administration the same strategy writ large. 5/
- First of all, it's an important tactical victory in the fight for a decent society. Nazism and white supremacy should be absolutely toxic 6/
- It might seem like a no-brainer that these companies would go, but in a world where they'd stayed, that would've sent a poisonous message 7/
- ...telling those who incite violent hatred and reap its rewards that they can still benefit from cover and respectability from biz elites 8/
- Trump's comments created a boiling-point moment where standing by him meant endorsing his claim: "very fine people" marched with torches 9/
- But there's a deeper tectonic shift that these resignations may foreshadow: an end to turning a blind eye by economic establishment 10/
- So far, Trump has been propped up by a Devil's Bargain btw rabid racists, opportunistic partisans, and the wealthy seeking tax cuts 11/
- Businesses justified participation on Trump's councils on economic grounds: a way to advance their corporate interests. 12/
- But if horror & public outrage at Trump's racism is strong enough now to peel huge companies away, that bargain may be falling apart. 13/
- The presence of these corporate titans on Trump's council was reassuring for tax-cut Republicans. That cover is now gone. Riskier for Rs 14/
- Elected Republicans standing with Trump are now naked, exposed, and alone. The public is gone. The business community is gone. What now? 15/
- With corporate America off the Trump train, the Q is why elected Republicans are still hanging off the sides as it heads off a cliff 16/
- It is now time for Congressional Republicans to join Democrats in formally censuring Donald Trump. 17/
- And then, stepping back: once the Republican donor class no longer thinks Trump can deliver its tax cuts, loyalty fades fast. 18/
- Don't want to make any predictions about fate of the Trump presidency. But revolt of a pillar of R power makes it... possibly shorter. 19/
- This is a legitimately big deal. All who took part in pressuring these companies over the last few days/weeks/months should feel proud. /20
posted by chris24 at 2:28 PM on August 16, 2017 [45 favorites]
Axios: What Steve Bannon Thinks About Charlottesville
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:33 PM on August 16, 2017 [28 favorites]
Bannon saw Trump's now-infamous Tuesday afternoon press conference not as the lowest point in his presidency, but as a "defining moment," where Trump decided to fully abandon the "globalists" and side with "his people."Can Bannon possibly survive that? I mean, the "globalists" he thinks Trump "abandoned" include his daughter, son-in-law, and three grandchildren.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:33 PM on August 16, 2017 [28 favorites]
- This is a legitimately big deal. All who took part in pressuring these companies over the last few days/weeks/months should feel proud. /20
Seems just as likely that Trump finally went too far and the CEO's noped out.
posted by zarq at 2:35 PM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Seems just as likely that Trump finally went too far and the CEO's noped out.
posted by zarq at 2:35 PM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
I was just alerted to Anderson Cooper's takedown of Trump - unfortunately I can't figure out how to link it here. It's good. But they showed a clip of the attack without warning and now I am so shocked, I can't stop my heart from beating like it happened right here. I have deliberately avoided the footage, and was still outraged by Trump's behaviour yesterday. After having seen what actually happened, I am impressed you guys aren't already in the middle of a civil war. Also, I get why several Republicans and all those CEOs are jumping ship. This isn't exactly Trump shooting someone on 5th Avenue, but it is Trump defending cold-blooded murder in the name of white supremacy. And yes, his base is still with him as he expected, because it was always the racism.
(Another note from far away: it seems really weird that those guys are allowed to carry firearms)
posted by mumimor at 2:40 PM on August 16, 2017 [19 favorites]
(Another note from far away: it seems really weird that those guys are allowed to carry firearms)
posted by mumimor at 2:40 PM on August 16, 2017 [19 favorites]
So Chuck Todd's interviewing Mark Bray. Antifa Meets the Press.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:41 PM on August 16, 2017
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:41 PM on August 16, 2017
Can someone remind me again what the Greatest Generation was great for doing? Oh, I remember!
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:44 PM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:44 PM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
The ‘alt-right’ is just another word for white supremacy, study finds
On average, “alt-right” adherents rated whites (92 points), men (88 points) and Europeans (87 points) the highest of all. They rated women lower, at 83 points. They rated Jews slightly below the figure of a spear-wielding Neanderthal figure, at 73 points. Mexicans came in at 67 points, while blacks came in at 65.posted by tonycpsu at 2:46 PM on August 16, 2017 [27 favorites]
Arabs, Nigerians, and feminists all came in at sub-60 points, close to the half-simian human ancestor in the middle of the chart. Muslims were the group ranked dead last, with 55 points.
In the eyes of the members of the “alt-right” participating in the study, in other words, Muslims are 59 percent as “evolved” as white people.
The ratings done by people who did not identify with the “alt-right” were not anywhere near as segregated. They rated women (93 points) a hair higher than men (92 points). Non-adherents rated Muslims at 83, or 9 points behind their rating for white people. That's still indicative of prejudice, of course, but not anywhere near as much as the 37-point gap between “alt-right” adherents' ratings of Muslims and white people would suggest.
People not identifying with the “alt-right” reserved their harshest judgment for Republicans, who they assessed at 78 points. By contrast, the “alt-right” felt that Democrats rated 60 points.
The ‘alt-right’ is just another word for white supremacy, study finds
No fucking shit, say millions
posted by palomar at 2:47 PM on August 16, 2017 [83 favorites]
No fucking shit, say millions
posted by palomar at 2:47 PM on August 16, 2017 [83 favorites]
After having seen what actually happened, I am impressed you guys aren't already in the middle of a civil war.
How about the beginning of a civil war? Still impressive?
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:47 PM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
How about the beginning of a civil war? Still impressive?
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:47 PM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
On average, “alt-right” adherents rated whites (92 points), men (88 points) and Europeans (87 points) the highest of all. They rated women lower, at 83 points. They rated Jews slightly below the figure of a spear-wielding Neanderthal figure, at 73 points. Mexicans came in at 67 points, while blacks came in at 65.
Buried the lede. The only group rated higher by alt-rights than by others was Republicans.
posted by Mental Wimp at 2:52 PM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Buried the lede. The only group rated higher by alt-rights than by others was Republicans.
posted by Mental Wimp at 2:52 PM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
(Another note from far away: it seems really weird that those guys are allowed to carry firearms)
Let me introduce you to ‘Merika’.
posted by rc3spencer at 2:54 PM on August 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
Let me introduce you to ‘Merika’.
posted by rc3spencer at 2:54 PM on August 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
The current conservative talking point seems to be that if we take down the confederate statues we will be on a slippery slope to taking down all the statues of evil people and then what comes next? Other ways of not being evil?
Their worst case scenario is an outbreak of the most rudimentary level of decency.
posted by srboisvert at 2:59 PM on August 16, 2017 [44 favorites]
Their worst case scenario is an outbreak of the most rudimentary level of decency.
posted by srboisvert at 2:59 PM on August 16, 2017 [44 favorites]
So Chuck Todd's interviewing Mark Bray.
Todd (yeah, I know) did a decent job, considering. I like that MSNBC has made sure to include both "other side" groups Trump et al. demonized by name as part of the conversation today and yesterday, which is another way to demonstrate and dismantle the false equivalence.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:00 PM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Todd (yeah, I know) did a decent job, considering. I like that MSNBC has made sure to include both "other side" groups Trump et al. demonized by name as part of the conversation today and yesterday, which is another way to demonstrate and dismantle the false equivalence.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:00 PM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
You go outside, turn around three times, curse and spit.
I was reminded of this weird MetaFilter spitting curse thing today.
I'm in France at the moment, typing this comment in a house that was taken over by the Nazis during the occupation and used as a barracks.
This morning I was in the bar/tabac in the village buying fags when an item about Trump's pro-Nazi stance came on the telly. An elderly man got up, visibly upset, slowly walked to the door, cleared his throat and angrily spat on the floor outside. The whole place went quiet and awkward as he made his way back to his seat. The landlady turned off the telly, poured a glass of red, set it down in front of the old bloke and gently gave him a little pat on the shoulder. It's a very small village - even has 'petit' in the name - so I'm sure everyone in the bar had an idea of why he reacted like that.
Hardly Trump's greatest crime, I know, but fuck him right in the eye for making that man think of a lost relative, or some other childhood Nazi horror.
posted by jack_mo at 3:02 PM on August 16, 2017 [210 favorites]
I was reminded of this weird MetaFilter spitting curse thing today.
I'm in France at the moment, typing this comment in a house that was taken over by the Nazis during the occupation and used as a barracks.
This morning I was in the bar/tabac in the village buying fags when an item about Trump's pro-Nazi stance came on the telly. An elderly man got up, visibly upset, slowly walked to the door, cleared his throat and angrily spat on the floor outside. The whole place went quiet and awkward as he made his way back to his seat. The landlady turned off the telly, poured a glass of red, set it down in front of the old bloke and gently gave him a little pat on the shoulder. It's a very small village - even has 'petit' in the name - so I'm sure everyone in the bar had an idea of why he reacted like that.
Hardly Trump's greatest crime, I know, but fuck him right in the eye for making that man think of a lost relative, or some other childhood Nazi horror.
posted by jack_mo at 3:02 PM on August 16, 2017 [210 favorites]
How about the beginning of a civil war? Still impressive?
Obviously, things are going to get rough. But what happened the last few days that didn't happen during the sixties' protests is that big business, Republican leaders and military leaders* sided with the resistance against Trump.
* I just love that "stronger together" quote!
posted by mumimor at 3:03 PM on August 16, 2017 [43 favorites]
Obviously, things are going to get rough. But what happened the last few days that didn't happen during the sixties' protests is that big business, Republican leaders and military leaders* sided with the resistance against Trump.
* I just love that "stronger together" quote!
posted by mumimor at 3:03 PM on August 16, 2017 [43 favorites]
Republican leaders' statements mean less than nothing until they call out Trump by name and not just a generic "we condemn white supremacy". Condemning white supremacy is quite literally the least you can do while still claiming to be doing something.
posted by Justinian at 3:08 PM on August 16, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 3:08 PM on August 16, 2017 [16 favorites]
The landlady turned off the telly, poured a glass of red, set it down in front of the old bloke and gently gave him a little pat on the shoulder. It's a very small village - even has 'petit' in the name - so I'm sure everyone in the bar had an idea of why he reacted like that.
Hardly Trump's greatest crime, I know, but fuck him right in the eye for making that man think of a lost relative, or some other childhood Nazi horror.
And now I’m bawling.
posted by rc3spencer at 3:08 PM on August 16, 2017 [13 favorites]
Hardly Trump's greatest crime, I know, but fuck him right in the eye for making that man think of a lost relative, or some other childhood Nazi horror.
And now I’m bawling.
posted by rc3spencer at 3:08 PM on August 16, 2017 [13 favorites]
In June, Ventura was hired by Russian media outlet RT and now he appears to support Trump again. Oh, and he says that since we've interfered in foreign elections, it's okay that Russia interfered in ours.
I don't want to get invested in defending Jesse Ventura, who believes a lot of stuff I think is bad or completely irrational, but I heard him on another podcast recently and didn't come away with the impression that he was pro-Trump at all. I can't get what you linked to play in my browser for whatever reason, but the excerpt in the text has him on the Trump presidency as "I'm against it" and the editorial explicitly does not endorse Trump and only brings up Trump's policies to criticize them. He was also calling Trump a chicken hawk on Twitter just a couple weeks ago. Is there anything else in print where Ventura goes into more depth about his positions vis-a-vis Trump's?
posted by Copronymus at 3:13 PM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
I don't want to get invested in defending Jesse Ventura, who believes a lot of stuff I think is bad or completely irrational, but I heard him on another podcast recently and didn't come away with the impression that he was pro-Trump at all. I can't get what you linked to play in my browser for whatever reason, but the excerpt in the text has him on the Trump presidency as "I'm against it" and the editorial explicitly does not endorse Trump and only brings up Trump's policies to criticize them. He was also calling Trump a chicken hawk on Twitter just a couple weeks ago. Is there anything else in print where Ventura goes into more depth about his positions vis-a-vis Trump's?
posted by Copronymus at 3:13 PM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
When conservatives ask how liberals can revere someone like Jefferson, given his history as a slave owner...
I wish I could make everyone listen to this discussion of the Declaration and the Constitution, and how valuable they are even though we as a country have never fully lived up to those ideals, just as their writers did not fully live up to those ideals.
Khizr Kahn makes me tear up a little. It is so welcome to hear his kind of idealism at this cynical moment in history.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:16 PM on August 16, 2017 [21 favorites]
I wish I could make everyone listen to this discussion of the Declaration and the Constitution, and how valuable they are even though we as a country have never fully lived up to those ideals, just as their writers did not fully live up to those ideals.
Khizr Kahn makes me tear up a little. It is so welcome to hear his kind of idealism at this cynical moment in history.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:16 PM on August 16, 2017 [21 favorites]
Jamie fucking Dimon of all people issued a strong condemnation of Trump to explain why the council broke up.
@kylegriffin1 (MSNBC)
JP Morgan CEO Jamie Dimon: "I strongly disagree with President Trump's reaction to the events that took place in Charlottesville."
@kylegriffin1 (MSNBC)
JP Morgan CEO Jamie Dimon: "I strongly disagree with President Trump's reaction to the events that took place in Charlottesville."
I strongly disagree with President Trump's reaction to the events that took place in Charlottesville over the past several days. Racism, intolerance and violence are always wrong. The equal treatment of all people is one of our nation's bedrock principles. There is no room for equivocation here: the evil on display by these perpetrators of hate should be condemned and has no place in a country that draws strength from our diversity and humanity.posted by chris24 at 3:20 PM on August 16, 2017 [22 favorites]
As a company and for all business in general, it is critical that we help develop rational, intelligent policies to help expand opportunities for all of our citizens. I know that times are tough for many. The lack of economic growth and opportunity has led to deep and understandable frustration among so many Americans. But fanning divisiveness is not the answer. Constructive economic and regulatory policies are not enough and will not matter if we do not address the divisions in our country. It is a leader's role, in business or government, to bring people together, not tear them apart.
Today, the members of the President's Strategic and Policy Forum agreed to disband. The group put out its own statement. But I also wanted you to understand why I personally supported this decision and how strongly I feel about these issues.
I'm very proud of the 250,000 people working here at JPMorgan Chase. I see your values every day - in how you treat your clients, your communities and each other. I am proud to see so many of you leading by example and not losing sight of the core principles which made our country great. I stand with you.
Trump's Advisory Boards:
Strategy & Policy Forum - Trump is a racist. We need to disband.
Manufacturing Council - Trump is a racist. We quit!
Evangelical Council - [crickets]
posted by zakur at 3:24 PM on August 16, 2017 [131 favorites]
Strategy & Policy Forum - Trump is a racist. We need to disband.
Manufacturing Council - Trump is a racist. We quit!
Evangelical Council - [crickets]
posted by zakur at 3:24 PM on August 16, 2017 [131 favorites]
The ‘alt-right’ is just another word for white supremacy, study finds
No fucking shit, say millions
This is an example of a time when data from a study confirms what everyone already knows. The data is still valuable.
posted by soelo at 3:27 PM on August 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
No fucking shit, say millions
This is an example of a time when data from a study confirms what everyone already knows. The data is still valuable.
posted by soelo at 3:27 PM on August 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
This Lawfare article about private military groups hints at some legal tools that can be used against the Neo-Nazis.
posted by suelac at 3:30 PM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by suelac at 3:30 PM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
There. Is. Always. A. Tweet.
5 years ago today.
@realDonaldTrump
One of the hardest jobs in politics must be cleaning up after @JoeBiden gaffes. I feel sorry for his spokespeople.
posted by chris24 at 3:30 PM on August 16, 2017 [53 favorites]
5 years ago today.
@realDonaldTrump
One of the hardest jobs in politics must be cleaning up after @JoeBiden gaffes. I feel sorry for his spokespeople.
posted by chris24 at 3:30 PM on August 16, 2017 [53 favorites]
Trump's disapproval numbers are coming down a little, I assume it's because some white assholes were only disapproving of the President because he hadn't been a racist asshole in too long.
posted by Justinian at 3:33 PM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 3:33 PM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
I have a sad thought that in this world businesses are more accountable (shareholders/customers) than the GOP. Paul Ryan is still a man who had frat party metaphorical circle jerks over how great it would be to cut people's benefits. I can hear him say "What my constituents care about, more than a few ill-advised remarks, is getting rid of job-killing regulations." I mean, we can all hear him say that, right? And somehow it wouldn't matter that much that those fucking regulations are so people can have clean water to drink and so forth. That's the dance he needs to dance: not convince the people who for some reason vote him that he's suddenly grown some humanitarian. All he needs to do is convince his base that he'll not embarrass himself on TV by equating George Washington and Robert E. Lee.
What I see from the GOP is rhetorical distancing from Trump. Maybe they'll do more if it's just a Fire Sale on GOP seats in 2018.
posted by angrycat at 3:33 PM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
What I see from the GOP is rhetorical distancing from Trump. Maybe they'll do more if it's just a Fire Sale on GOP seats in 2018.
posted by angrycat at 3:33 PM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Republican leaders' statements mean less than nothing until they call out Trump by name and not just a generic "we condemn white supremacy".
Which is why, when I called my R-Senator and House Rep this morning, I specifically asked that they do that.
posted by Rykey at 3:33 PM on August 16, 2017
Which is why, when I called my R-Senator and House Rep this morning, I specifically asked that they do that.
posted by Rykey at 3:33 PM on August 16, 2017
Yikes, Michiganders, here we go: MSU (MI State Univ) reviewing [speaking engagement] request from group headed by white supremacist Richard Spencer
Here's the MSU President's Office contact info. Univ has social media too, of course.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:39 PM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
Here's the MSU President's Office contact info. Univ has social media too, of course.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:39 PM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
Usually I really like TPM's editorial content but John Judis really put out an upsetting piece: Is Trump a White Nationalist or Is He Experiencing a Second Childhood?
Judis posits three possible explanations for The Shithead's behaviour: a) That it is all in service of some political strategy of creating some sort of "workers party" based on nationalism, protectionism, and "abandoning political correctness", b) that he is an out-and-out white nationalist/supremacist or c) that he's reverting to childhood.
Judis makes a number of blatantly false claims such as: Trump is not an obvious anti-Semite – think of his Jewish son-in-law and converted daughter. and He has not advanced programs that would be designed to stigmatize or punish blacks.. The first is ridiculous because he sounds himself with anti-Semites like Gorka and Bannon and ran that horrible ad at the end of the campaign. If you hang with anti-Semites, guess what I think of you. The second statement is highly offensive too because so much of his campaign was very anti-Black: the nomination of Sessions, the attempts to reignite the drug war, the noise against cannabis states, the voter disenfranchisement panel, siding with the hate mob in Charlottesville, and so on.
Judis' contention that this grown man may be "reverting to childhood" pisses me off because it's another suggesting that an adult man is a child who doesn't really understand what he's doing, while simultaneously playing into the trope that older people's bigotry is best explained by age.
Although Judis comes to a conclusion that I can agree with--that T is unfit for the office--this is a really facile analysis that basically regurgitates a bunch of bullshit talking points that have the effect of allowing people off the hook of having to recognize that the house is on fire.
I have my own analysis: T is an anti-Semitic white supremacist, who thinks he's a master strategist and that he can govern with only his fanatic mob's approval. He's not a child, but an adult man who cannot take any responsibility for his actions. His age and background do not excuse him from educating himself and challenging/rejecting his own prejudice and bigotry.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 3:42 PM on August 16, 2017 [17 favorites]
Judis posits three possible explanations for The Shithead's behaviour: a) That it is all in service of some political strategy of creating some sort of "workers party" based on nationalism, protectionism, and "abandoning political correctness", b) that he is an out-and-out white nationalist/supremacist or c) that he's reverting to childhood.
Judis makes a number of blatantly false claims such as: Trump is not an obvious anti-Semite – think of his Jewish son-in-law and converted daughter. and He has not advanced programs that would be designed to stigmatize or punish blacks.. The first is ridiculous because he sounds himself with anti-Semites like Gorka and Bannon and ran that horrible ad at the end of the campaign. If you hang with anti-Semites, guess what I think of you. The second statement is highly offensive too because so much of his campaign was very anti-Black: the nomination of Sessions, the attempts to reignite the drug war, the noise against cannabis states, the voter disenfranchisement panel, siding with the hate mob in Charlottesville, and so on.
Judis' contention that this grown man may be "reverting to childhood" pisses me off because it's another suggesting that an adult man is a child who doesn't really understand what he's doing, while simultaneously playing into the trope that older people's bigotry is best explained by age.
Although Judis comes to a conclusion that I can agree with--that T is unfit for the office--this is a really facile analysis that basically regurgitates a bunch of bullshit talking points that have the effect of allowing people off the hook of having to recognize that the house is on fire.
I have my own analysis: T is an anti-Semitic white supremacist, who thinks he's a master strategist and that he can govern with only his fanatic mob's approval. He's not a child, but an adult man who cannot take any responsibility for his actions. His age and background do not excuse him from educating himself and challenging/rejecting his own prejudice and bigotry.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 3:42 PM on August 16, 2017 [17 favorites]
New Republic: Trump’s Fan-Service to His Base Is Tearing America Apart: The president doesn't pretend to represent all citizens—just his most hardcore supporters
A mind-meld has formed between Trump and his base, vividly on display in the raucous rallies where Trump is most at home. The danger of this fusion is that it’s mutually enabling: Trump and his fervid fans will encourage each other to become yet more extreme. As the president is increasingly criticized from outside his base, he’ll increasingly use his passionate fans as a political shield. And as Charlottesville proves, if those fans end up killing someone, the president will defend them. Caught in the closed loop of fan-servicing, Trump is setting the nation on a path toward further radicalization and further violence.posted by chris24 at 3:42 PM on August 16, 2017 [16 favorites]
Wherein Jack Prosobiec attempts a rather pathetic attempt at whataboutism by retweeting an anemic seven person protest at the Lenin statue in Seattle.
Yes, the privately owned Lenin statue that is on private property, which incidentally is for sale. They could hold a gofundme, buy it and get rid of it if they were truly offended by it, which they are not. Whataboutism fail!
posted by Fleebnork at 3:51 PM on August 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
Yes, the privately owned Lenin statue that is on private property, which incidentally is for sale. They could hold a gofundme, buy it and get rid of it if they were truly offended by it, which they are not. Whataboutism fail!
posted by Fleebnork at 3:51 PM on August 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
Judis posits three possible explanations for The Shithead's behaviour: a) That it is all in service of some political strategy of creating some sort of "workers party" based on nationalism, protectionism, and "abandoning political correctness", b) that he is an out-and-out white nationalist/supremacist or c) that he's reverting to childhood.
Judis makes the same category error that most people on all sides make, that Trump does what he does for rational reasons that can be unraveled & understood. He does not. Everything he does is done to satisfy urges, to fill an endless void at the center of his being. He's an addict, always looking to score his next fix as he feels the effects of the last one fading. His drug is praise. That's what it is to be a malignant narcissist.
posted by scalefree at 3:51 PM on August 16, 2017 [31 favorites]
Judis makes the same category error that most people on all sides make, that Trump does what he does for rational reasons that can be unraveled & understood. He does not. Everything he does is done to satisfy urges, to fill an endless void at the center of his being. He's an addict, always looking to score his next fix as he feels the effects of the last one fading. His drug is praise. That's what it is to be a malignant narcissist.
posted by scalefree at 3:51 PM on August 16, 2017 [31 favorites]
Margaret Sullivan weighs in against "the view from nowhere": This week should put the nail in the coffin for ‘both sides’ journalism
This piece is really good. It's something I have long ago considered in the work I do, too. I cover a lot of stories, but my main beat is immigration, in particular regarding asylum seekers and refugees. I have made it very clear on social media and elsewhere that I believe our authorities are incompetent at best when it comes to how we treat people coming to this country to escape imprisonment, torture and death. I'm not the only one covering this beat, but there's something I've noticed among my colleagues when it comes to this question of "objectivity" vs "bias".
A lot of reporters who fancy themselves objective are more concerned about access than telling the truth. You put the director of some immigration office on the front page, that'll get clicks. Put some father and daughter from Afghanistan that no one has ever heard of there, maybe not so much. So a lot of people will defer to the powerful in order to keep having ready access to them. That, I would argue, is what bias really is.
But even putting unconscious bias aside, readers are not naive. They're aware journalists have personal sympathies for different points of view. What matters is whether what you are reporting is in fact verifiable. And what do you know, it turns out people in positions of power tend to hide, obfuscate and fabricate the truth. The powerless tend to be truthful in their grievances, and are desperate to be heard. I say "tend" for a reason; there are naturally exceptions on both sides. But that's all the more reason why a good journalist doesn't just report "X said this"; they will follow through on the veracity of what was said.
Having an opinion in no way, shape or form is mutually exclusive with your ability to report the truth. In Margret Sullivan's words:
Journalists should indeed stand for some things. They should stand for factual reality. For insistence on what actually happened, not revisionism. For getting answers to questions that politicians don’t want to answer. ... The best way to be fair is not to be falsely evenhanded, giving equal weight to unequal sides. It’s to push for the truth, and tell it both accurately and powerfully.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 3:52 PM on August 16, 2017 [44 favorites]
This piece is really good. It's something I have long ago considered in the work I do, too. I cover a lot of stories, but my main beat is immigration, in particular regarding asylum seekers and refugees. I have made it very clear on social media and elsewhere that I believe our authorities are incompetent at best when it comes to how we treat people coming to this country to escape imprisonment, torture and death. I'm not the only one covering this beat, but there's something I've noticed among my colleagues when it comes to this question of "objectivity" vs "bias".
A lot of reporters who fancy themselves objective are more concerned about access than telling the truth. You put the director of some immigration office on the front page, that'll get clicks. Put some father and daughter from Afghanistan that no one has ever heard of there, maybe not so much. So a lot of people will defer to the powerful in order to keep having ready access to them. That, I would argue, is what bias really is.
But even putting unconscious bias aside, readers are not naive. They're aware journalists have personal sympathies for different points of view. What matters is whether what you are reporting is in fact verifiable. And what do you know, it turns out people in positions of power tend to hide, obfuscate and fabricate the truth. The powerless tend to be truthful in their grievances, and are desperate to be heard. I say "tend" for a reason; there are naturally exceptions on both sides. But that's all the more reason why a good journalist doesn't just report "X said this"; they will follow through on the veracity of what was said.
Having an opinion in no way, shape or form is mutually exclusive with your ability to report the truth. In Margret Sullivan's words:
Journalists should indeed stand for some things. They should stand for factual reality. For insistence on what actually happened, not revisionism. For getting answers to questions that politicians don’t want to answer. ... The best way to be fair is not to be falsely evenhanded, giving equal weight to unequal sides. It’s to push for the truth, and tell it both accurately and powerfully.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 3:52 PM on August 16, 2017 [44 favorites]
Literally, I woke up in a bad mood and decided someone shouldn’t be allowed on the Internet. No one should have that power.
Ok. Then let's nationalize your company, along with ATT, Verizon and Google, and/or regulate them all as a public utilities under Title II of the Telecommunications Act.
I'm pretty ok with that too.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:53 PM on August 16, 2017 [77 favorites]
Ok. Then let's nationalize your company, along with ATT, Verizon and Google, and/or regulate them all as a public utilities under Title II of the Telecommunications Act.
I'm pretty ok with that too.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:53 PM on August 16, 2017 [77 favorites]
Yes, the privately owned Lenin statue that is on private property, which incidentally is for sale. They could hold a gofundme, buy it and get rid of it if they were truly offended by it, which they are not. Whataboutism fail!
I'd add that, in a number of decidedly red Facebook groups I'm in, modern commies who caught wind of some drive to remove the Lenin statue either shrugged or were like "oh ok cool where do I sign up".
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 3:55 PM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'd add that, in a number of decidedly red Facebook groups I'm in, modern commies who caught wind of some drive to remove the Lenin statue either shrugged or were like "oh ok cool where do I sign up".
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 3:55 PM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
Wherein Jack Prosobiec attempts a rather pathetic attempt at whataboutism by retweeting an anemic seven person protest at the Lenin statue in Seattle.
It's likely even those pathetic few were paid, he has a history of doing that. Either way it looks bad when you're in danger of being outnumbered by the thing you came to protest.
posted by scalefree at 3:57 PM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's likely even those pathetic few were paid, he has a history of doing that. Either way it looks bad when you're in danger of being outnumbered by the thing you came to protest.
posted by scalefree at 3:57 PM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Are you saying that Lenin's on sale again?
posted by acb at 3:57 PM on August 16, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by acb at 3:57 PM on August 16, 2017 [30 favorites]
>After having seen what actually happened, I am impressed you guys aren't already in the middle of a civil war.
How about the beginning of a civil war? Still impressive?
My best guess as to what's beginning is an American version of The Troubles.
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:01 PM on August 16, 2017 [23 favorites]
How about the beginning of a civil war? Still impressive?
My best guess as to what's beginning is an American version of The Troubles.
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:01 PM on August 16, 2017 [23 favorites]
Then let's nationalize your company, along with ATT, Verizon and Google
Can we add a regulatory framework to reduce the chance that they'll ever randomly spew plaintext of their users' encrypted transmissions again?
posted by Coventry at 4:01 PM on August 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
Can we add a regulatory framework to reduce the chance that they'll ever randomly spew plaintext of their users' encrypted transmissions again?
posted by Coventry at 4:01 PM on August 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
@mmfa
Newt Gingrich: Mayors who take down Confederate statues are just pandering to a black audience
@studentactivism Retweeted Media Matters
Pandering to a white audience is appropriate. Pandering to a black audience is not. Because ... well, you know why.
posted by chris24 at 4:09 PM on August 16, 2017 [59 favorites]
Newt Gingrich: Mayors who take down Confederate statues are just pandering to a black audience
@studentactivism Retweeted Media Matters
Pandering to a white audience is appropriate. Pandering to a black audience is not. Because ... well, you know why.
posted by chris24 at 4:09 PM on August 16, 2017 [59 favorites]
Bannon gave an interview yesterday afternoon to The American Prospect: Steve Bannon, Unrepentant (link is to cached version as the site seems to be down):
posted by zachlipton at 4:09 PM on August 16, 2017 [21 favorites]
“To me,” Bannon said, “the economic war with China is everything. And we have to be maniacally focused on that. If we continue to lose it, we're five years away, I think, ten years at the most, of hitting an inflection point from which we'll never be able to recover.”As far as white supremacists:
Bannon’s plan of attack includes: a complaint under Section 301 of the 1974 Trade Act against Chinese coercion of technology transfers from American corporations doing business there, and follow-up complaints against steel and aluminum dumping. “We’re going to run the tables on these guys. We’ve come to the conclusion that they’re in an economic war and they’re crushing us.”
But what about his internal adversaries, at the departments of State and Defense, who think the United States can enlist Beijing’s aid on the North Korean standoff, and at Treasury and the National Economic Council who don’t want to mess with the trading system?
“Oh, they’re wetting themselves,” he said, explaining that the Section 301 complaint, which was put on hold when the war of threats with North Korea broke out, was shelved only temporarily, and will be revived in three weeks. As for other cabinet departments, Bannon has big plans to marginalize their influence.
“I’m changing out people at East Asian Defense; I’m getting hawks in. I’m getting Susan Thornton [acting head of East Asian and Pacific Affairs] out at State.”
He dismissed the far right as irrelevant and sidestepped his own role in cultivating it: “Ethno-nationalism—it's losers. It's a fringe element. I think the media plays it up too much, and we gotta help crush it, you know, uh, help crush it more.”This is all...kind of weird. I mean, he's calling up a progressive publication to shill for a trade war with China because his enemies inside the administration disagree? Jonathan Swan calls it "[Bannon's] version of Scaramucci's call to Lizza," though it's a lot more family friendly.
“These guys are a collection of clowns,” he added.
From his lips to Trump’s ear.
“The Democrats,” he said, “the longer they talk about identity politics, I got ’em. I want them to talk about racism every day. If the left is focused on race and identity, and we go with economic nationalism, we can crush the Democrats.”
posted by zachlipton at 4:09 PM on August 16, 2017 [21 favorites]
Evangelical Council - [crickets]
John Fea: What Are the Court Evangelicals Saying Today?
posted by MonkeyToes at 4:10 PM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
John Fea: What Are the Court Evangelicals Saying Today?
posted by MonkeyToes at 4:10 PM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
So Trump is coming to Phoenix for another rabble rousing / ego stroke / campaign rally. He is said to be considering pardoning our state's most notorious racist autocrat, the unrepentant criminal ex-Sheriff Joe Arpaio.
Birthers of a feather...
posted by darkstar at 4:10 PM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Birthers of a feather...
posted by darkstar at 4:10 PM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
The National Review is about evenly split between outspoken calling out of Trump and other Republicans for supporting neonazis, and two-sides-ism. But some of the former are encouraging.
Campus Conservatives Gave the Alt-Right a Platform by Elliot Kaufmann revealed something new (to me) and interesting -- Milo Yiannopoulos gives his talks for free. That's appealing to underpopulated campus conservative groups looking to make a splash with little effort, but it should also make those groups suspicious of his motives. Who's funding him? What's his game?
posted by msalt at 4:10 PM on August 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
Campus Conservatives Gave the Alt-Right a Platform by Elliot Kaufmann revealed something new (to me) and interesting -- Milo Yiannopoulos gives his talks for free. That's appealing to underpopulated campus conservative groups looking to make a splash with little effort, but it should also make those groups suspicious of his motives. Who's funding him? What's his game?
posted by msalt at 4:10 PM on August 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
Bannon taking this particular moment to try to remind liberals that he's the only non-military interventionist in the administration is fascinating. Read this interview with Trump calling Bannon the "alt-left" a few months ago in mind.
posted by zachlipton at 4:15 PM on August 16, 2017
posted by zachlipton at 4:15 PM on August 16, 2017
I'm sickened by the use of the word "political" to refer to the genocidal opinions of Nazis. This isn't Cloudflare's CEO shutting down a website that wants the top marginal tax rate to be 18%. They're literally people who want to murder other people because of their race. This isn't a bunch of NIMBYs protesting a zoning board decision; they're literal Nazis. Just grouping that into "politics" is whitewashing, like we can't tell the difference between legitimate policy disagreements and those who advocate for ethnic cleansing.
posted by 0xFCAF at 4:15 PM on August 16, 2017 [55 favorites]
posted by 0xFCAF at 4:15 PM on August 16, 2017 [55 favorites]
modern commies who caught wind of some drive to remove the Lenin statue either shrugged or were like "oh ok cool where do I sign up".
If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:16 PM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:16 PM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
“The Democrats,” he said, “the longer they talk about identity politics, I got ’em. I want them to talk about racism every day. If the left is focused on race and identity, and we go with economic nationalism, we can crush the Democrats.”
Steve Bannon: Class Reductionist.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 4:19 PM on August 16, 2017
Steve Bannon: Class Reductionist.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 4:19 PM on August 16, 2017
the same category error that most people on all sides make, that Trump does what he does for rational reasons that can be unraveled & understood. He does not.
people who are smart enough to write long thinkpieces on current events -- which is not all that smart, but it does take a certain degree of articulacy and linear thought and probably education too -- get into these awful terrible stupid tangles all the time because (I believe) they try to think to themselves, racism is wrong so how could I ever justify it to myself? let me imagine how I could, so that I can better understand the people who already have.
And then in order to do the thought experiment, they get into a complicated string of if-then premise-conclusions that are really hard to follow and sustain, and they just break off at some point and say, it is impossible that a man of Trump's meager intelligence and short attention span could ever have gone through these logical contortions that I myself, an intelligent thinkpiece writer, am having considerable trouble with. SO...(they say)...since it is unimaginable that he has the brainpower to come up with all these misreadings of history and contorted misinterpretations of plain fact -- making false things sound plausible, even to yourself, is pretty hard work! -- he must not have done it and therefore he must not be doing these things out of racism, there must be another explanation like ignorant opportunism or senility or crafty politicking behind it.
and like -- the idiocy of it all -- because that's not how ACTUAL RACISTS develop their worldviews. they don't sit down with a pen and paper and work it out like a crossword puzzle and get very agitated if their words have too many letters in them and it doesn't fit in the boxes quite right. All this crap is only a problem for those pseudo-intellectual racists who, for whatever reason, need to reconcile their bigoted drives with their gratifying self-image as logical, rational thinkers. that's a lot of racists, but it sure isn't all of them. that is not the problem of a donald trump! he doesn't HAVE cognitive dissonance, he doesn't CARE if the things he says add up to a coherent ideology or not, never mind a defensible one. he has instincts and emotions, all of them extremely bad, and he expresses them how he is able. he hates who he says he hates.
and it's all so unnecessary because it's not hard to understand if you've ever hated anybody. I mean any individual, in a regular human way, not whole classes of people you wish dead. once you have the feeling, the feeling creates its own justifications. doesn't matter whether you had a real reason to start it all off once or not; you don't need one. the feeling is the engine. White supremacists, like Trump, have feelings. some may also have thoughts, but they certainly do not need them.
any piecethinker who is bothered by the idea that it just doesn't make sense for Trump to be a real white supremacist for real needs to go give himself a hard slap or a glass of cold water to the face and take hold of himself by the collar and shake himself until he remembers that it doesn't make sense, in that sense, for anybody to be one.
posted by queenofbithynia at 4:23 PM on August 16, 2017 [47 favorites]
“The Democrats,” he said, “the longer they talk about identity politics, I got ’em. I want them to talk about racism every day. If the left is focused on race and identity, and we go with economic nationalism, we can crush the Democrats.”
Translation: White people get frightened when Democrats talk about race and identity and so I'll terrify them with the idea that people who are not white are coming to take their jobs. It worked last time!
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:24 PM on August 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
Translation: White people get frightened when Democrats talk about race and identity and so I'll terrify them with the idea that people who are not white are coming to take their jobs. It worked last time!
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:24 PM on August 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
I don't get the sign in that protest. Lenin is most explicitly not Hitler, given that they are two different people?
Right-wing protesters are often Poe's Law in action. I recall well an Obama-era protester with a sign reading MORE CZARS THAN THE USSR. Okay, let me stop you right there.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:25 PM on August 16, 2017 [17 favorites]
Right-wing protesters are often Poe's Law in action. I recall well an Obama-era protester with a sign reading MORE CZARS THAN THE USSR. Okay, let me stop you right there.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:25 PM on August 16, 2017 [17 favorites]
My best guess as to what's beginning is an American version of The Troubles.
Dear future historians: please do us a courtesy and avoid referring to the coming era of mayhem and terror as The Trumples.
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:29 PM on August 16, 2017 [17 favorites]
Dear future historians: please do us a courtesy and avoid referring to the coming era of mayhem and terror as The Trumples.
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:29 PM on August 16, 2017 [17 favorites]
Not an encouraging read, but interesting.
@drvox
1. A word about this insane press conference. It's a very good time to remember this: Vox: We overanalyze Trump. He is what he appears to be. There is no correct Theory of Trump
2. The normal human way to interpret Trump's words is to take them as reflecting beliefs & intentions -- stable, internal cognitive states.
3. In this case, that would lead to the horrific conclusion that he believes white supremacists & their opponents are morally equivalent ...
4. ... that Confederate monuments are just heritage, that George Washington is morally equivalent to Andrew Jackson, etc. etc.
5. But we must always remember: he does not know anything. He doesn't know the history of the Civil War, or Reconstruction, or...anything.
6. He has no stable, persistent beliefs/opinions about the world -- not about slavery, not about protestors, not about violence, nothing.
7. He is a creature of pure id, pure impulse. What's going on is, he vaguely understands that His People clashed with Their People ...
8. ... and His People are taking all the blame. To accept blame is weakness. So he instinctively avoids it, displacing or spreading blame.
9. This, obviously, not a defense of Trump! If anything, having the cognitive equivalent of a goldfish in office is *worse* ...
10. ...than having someone w/ malign beliefs. An adult w/ malign beliefs wd likely be more sensitive to context & obscure/dogwhistle them.
11. Trump *only* sees dominance/submission, and he must dominate, so in a situation like this he can't *help* himself from defending ...
12. ..."his people," in terms that even a moderately self-aware white supremacist would know better than to use in a nat'l press conference!
13. Again: not a defense of Trump. He's not a white supremacist b/c he's not any kind of "ist." Any "ism" involves a complex, interwoven ...
14. ... set of beliefs & principles. There's no evidence that Trump's brain is capable of containing such a thing, good or bad.
15. He's like a malignant, narcissistic Chauncey Gardner, stumbling through history, being carried by its currents.
16. The fact that he's not a true white supremacist (or any kind of -ist) is not, in my view, a reason for relief or comfort. The opposite!
17. He's at the center of some *extremely* dangerous & volatile historical currents, w/ absolutely no awareness or agency ...
18. ... and no ability to contain, channel, or control them. He doesn't know what's going on -- the bigger picture beyond his gaping ego.
19. That's what this press conference was: a child toying w/ explosives, w/ no sense of context or consequences, just impulses.
20. He will not take blame, apologize, back down, concede error, rise above -- he won't do *anything* that feels to his enormous ego ...
21. ... like weakness or submission, no matter what. Even when he's sitting on top of a powder keg of racial tensions & incipient violence.
22. Even when virtually everyone, in both parties, across the country, is *begging* him to just say the words we all know must be said.
23. Even in a situation where saying the accommodating words would be better for the country, his party, his administration, and HIM.
24. He just can't take in the context, the larger picture. He's literally incapable. He's being attacked; he must defend. That's it.
25. So yeah, the horrific things he's saying at this press conference? They're not some a-ha revelation that he really is, after all ...
26. ... a white supremacist. Rather, they are yet more proof that there is no issue so important, no moral offense so clear ...
27. ...no set of circumstances or tensions so dangerous that they can pull Trump out of the tiny confines of his own terrified, fragile ego.
28. To us, this is serious stuff. To him, it's on the level of a schoolyard nyah-nyah, an opportunity for petty whataboutism ...
29. ... because to him, *literally all of life is on that level*. There is no other level. That's not less scary than intentional evil ...
30. ... it's MORE scary. Trump cannot control himself, even in service of his own interests, much less America's. God help us all. /fin
posted by chris24 at 4:31 PM on August 16, 2017 [104 favorites]
@drvox
1. A word about this insane press conference. It's a very good time to remember this: Vox: We overanalyze Trump. He is what he appears to be. There is no correct Theory of Trump
2. The normal human way to interpret Trump's words is to take them as reflecting beliefs & intentions -- stable, internal cognitive states.
3. In this case, that would lead to the horrific conclusion that he believes white supremacists & their opponents are morally equivalent ...
4. ... that Confederate monuments are just heritage, that George Washington is morally equivalent to Andrew Jackson, etc. etc.
5. But we must always remember: he does not know anything. He doesn't know the history of the Civil War, or Reconstruction, or...anything.
6. He has no stable, persistent beliefs/opinions about the world -- not about slavery, not about protestors, not about violence, nothing.
7. He is a creature of pure id, pure impulse. What's going on is, he vaguely understands that His People clashed with Their People ...
8. ... and His People are taking all the blame. To accept blame is weakness. So he instinctively avoids it, displacing or spreading blame.
9. This, obviously, not a defense of Trump! If anything, having the cognitive equivalent of a goldfish in office is *worse* ...
10. ...than having someone w/ malign beliefs. An adult w/ malign beliefs wd likely be more sensitive to context & obscure/dogwhistle them.
11. Trump *only* sees dominance/submission, and he must dominate, so in a situation like this he can't *help* himself from defending ...
12. ..."his people," in terms that even a moderately self-aware white supremacist would know better than to use in a nat'l press conference!
13. Again: not a defense of Trump. He's not a white supremacist b/c he's not any kind of "ist." Any "ism" involves a complex, interwoven ...
14. ... set of beliefs & principles. There's no evidence that Trump's brain is capable of containing such a thing, good or bad.
15. He's like a malignant, narcissistic Chauncey Gardner, stumbling through history, being carried by its currents.
16. The fact that he's not a true white supremacist (or any kind of -ist) is not, in my view, a reason for relief or comfort. The opposite!
17. He's at the center of some *extremely* dangerous & volatile historical currents, w/ absolutely no awareness or agency ...
18. ... and no ability to contain, channel, or control them. He doesn't know what's going on -- the bigger picture beyond his gaping ego.
19. That's what this press conference was: a child toying w/ explosives, w/ no sense of context or consequences, just impulses.
20. He will not take blame, apologize, back down, concede error, rise above -- he won't do *anything* that feels to his enormous ego ...
21. ... like weakness or submission, no matter what. Even when he's sitting on top of a powder keg of racial tensions & incipient violence.
22. Even when virtually everyone, in both parties, across the country, is *begging* him to just say the words we all know must be said.
23. Even in a situation where saying the accommodating words would be better for the country, his party, his administration, and HIM.
24. He just can't take in the context, the larger picture. He's literally incapable. He's being attacked; he must defend. That's it.
25. So yeah, the horrific things he's saying at this press conference? They're not some a-ha revelation that he really is, after all ...
26. ... a white supremacist. Rather, they are yet more proof that there is no issue so important, no moral offense so clear ...
27. ...no set of circumstances or tensions so dangerous that they can pull Trump out of the tiny confines of his own terrified, fragile ego.
28. To us, this is serious stuff. To him, it's on the level of a schoolyard nyah-nyah, an opportunity for petty whataboutism ...
29. ... because to him, *literally all of life is on that level*. There is no other level. That's not less scary than intentional evil ...
30. ... it's MORE scary. Trump cannot control himself, even in service of his own interests, much less America's. God help us all. /fin
posted by chris24 at 4:31 PM on August 16, 2017 [104 favorites]
Bannon taking this particular moment to try to remind liberals that he's the only non-military interventionist in the administration is fascinating. Read this interview with Trump calling Bannon the "alt-left" a few months ago in mind.
He's smart enough to go where the heat is, which is the progressive movement, but conceited enough to think he's so clever that he can make progressives forget who he is and what he really believes.
posted by jason_steakums at 4:31 PM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
He's smart enough to go where the heat is, which is the progressive movement, but conceited enough to think he's so clever that he can make progressives forget who he is and what he really believes.
posted by jason_steakums at 4:31 PM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Task & Purpose has an interview and story with Jack Posobiec, digging into his military service and his civilian job as an analyst at the Office of Naval Intelligence, until he lost his security clearance after something to do with his use of Twitter.
As a reservist with his security clearance suspended, he now has administrative duties dealing with personnel records. He's also held ancillary duties as a urinalysis officer. Urinalysis officer. Urine. Pee.
posted by zachlipton at 4:33 PM on August 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
As a reservist with his security clearance suspended, he now has administrative duties dealing with personnel records. He's also held ancillary duties as a urinalysis officer. Urinalysis officer. Urine. Pee.
posted by zachlipton at 4:33 PM on August 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
He's also held ancillary duties as a urinalysis officer. Urinalysis officer. Urine. Pee.
we're through the looking glass here peeple
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:35 PM on August 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
we're through the looking glass here peeple
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:35 PM on August 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
The tweetstorm that chris24 posted hits the nail on the head.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 4:36 PM on August 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by escape from the potato planet at 4:36 PM on August 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
“The Democrats,” he said, “the longer they talk about identity politics, I got ’em. I want them to talk about racism every day. If the left is focused on race and identity, and we go with economic nationalism, we can crush the Democrats.”
...but...they're not doing the economic populism. They're not doing jobs, infrastructure, anything. It's the Paul Ryan Granny Starver agenda, at some point you have to deliver the bread and circuses. They've offered no bread, no circus, just overt endorsement of racial terrorism and absurdly draconian spending cuts to programs they explicitly promised not to cut.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:36 PM on August 16, 2017 [26 favorites]
...but...they're not doing the economic populism. They're not doing jobs, infrastructure, anything. It's the Paul Ryan Granny Starver agenda, at some point you have to deliver the bread and circuses. They've offered no bread, no circus, just overt endorsement of racial terrorism and absurdly draconian spending cuts to programs they explicitly promised not to cut.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:36 PM on August 16, 2017 [26 favorites]
Everything he does is done to satisfy urges, to fill an endless void at the center of his being. He's an addict, always looking to score his next fix as he feels the effects of the last one fading. His drug is praise. That's what it is to be a malignant narcissist.
This. And they get meaner and angrier as they age, whether or not they have the dementia that some people theorize/joke 45 has. (Even) less filter, more what they truly are.
posted by camyram at 4:37 PM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
This. And they get meaner and angrier as they age, whether or not they have the dementia that some people theorize/joke 45 has. (Even) less filter, more what they truly are.
posted by camyram at 4:37 PM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
The white supremacists got their permit today for a rally Saturday on Boston Common. At least two major counter-protests are planned.
posted by adamg at 4:38 PM on August 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by adamg at 4:38 PM on August 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
The Bannon interview was interesting because we so seldom read direct quotes from him, or indeed hear too much about what he is doing.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:38 PM on August 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
“I’m changing out people at East Asian Defense; I’m getting hawks in. I’m getting Susan Thornton [acting head of East Asian and Pacific Affairs] out at State.”He makes it sound like he is completely free to hire/fire anyone he wants. I wonder how Tillerson views the situation?
Bannon explained that his strategy is to battle the trade doves inside the administration while building an outside coalition of trade hawks that includes left as well as right. Hence the phone call to me.So why is he talking to a magazine, and a fairly obscure one that DJT for sure does not read? I think he has lost access to Trump at the moment and is feeling frustrated.
“The Democrats,” he said, “the longer they talk about identity politics, I got ’em. I want them to talk about racism every day. If the left is focused on race and identity, and we go with economic nationalism, we can crush the Democrats.”Ah now we come to the part where he is talking about 2020. He thinks he is going to win the same way he won 2016 when HRC spent a lot of time talking about inclusive policies while DJT promised pie in the sky. The problem for Bannon is the pie in the sky will never materialize. The cheaper, better healthcare isn't coming and the better paying jobs for everyone isn't coming. They will try to spin it as "give me 4 more years and this time it will happen, I promise" but DJT is revealing himself to be a major fuck up and the electorate is a little impatient. If he can't deliver with a Republican controlled House & Senate then why would anyone think he can do it at a later date?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:38 PM on August 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
Perry Siein, WaPo: Obama’s administration requested a Bikeshare station at the White House. Trump’s team just had it removed.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:39 PM on August 16, 2017 [78 favorites]
Unlike every other Bikeshare station in the region, this one was not accessible to the public and could only be used by commuters who had access to White House grounds. The Obama administration requested the station in 2010.How fucking petty.
It’s unclear why the White House wanted it removed. The White House didn’t immediately respond to requests for comment.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:39 PM on August 16, 2017 [78 favorites]
The white supremacists got their permit today for a rally Saturday on Boston Common
And the violence that they created gives no one pause? An actual murder and attempted murder of many doesn't automatically mean they can't be allowed to petition for a permit? They should at the very least be forced to pay a very high bond to ensure the peace.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:41 PM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
It’s unclear why the White House wanted it removed.
BODI
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 4:41 PM on August 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
BODI
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 4:41 PM on August 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
My best guess as to what's beginning is an American version of The Troubles.
That's what I'm afraid of too.
posted by Rykey at 4:42 PM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
That's what I'm afraid of too.
posted by Rykey at 4:42 PM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
You can go back in these threads and see I've been worried about a medium term devolution into low level internecine conflict due to racism, polarization, and our anti-democratic electoral systems... sadly I didn't expect the medium term to be so near! This is happening much faster than I thought.
posted by Justinian at 4:45 PM on August 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 4:45 PM on August 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
Obama’s administration requested a Bikeshare station at the White House. Trump’s team just had it removed.
President Ronald Reagan took office in 1981, and one of his first moves was to order the [Carter-installed] solar panels removed.
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:45 PM on August 16, 2017 [48 favorites]
President Ronald Reagan took office in 1981, and one of his first moves was to order the [Carter-installed] solar panels removed.
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:45 PM on August 16, 2017 [48 favorites]
Judis posits three possible explanations for The Shithead's behaviour: a) That it is all in service of some political strategy of creating some sort of "workers party" based on nationalism, protectionism, and "abandoning political correctness", b) that he is an out-and-out white nationalist/supremacist or c) that he's reverting to childhood.
White men: they get to be considered "children" for their whole lives. And let off the hook because "he's just a kid, he doesn't know any better!"
Sheesh. Seeping Baby Man is 70. He's a grandfather, ffs. He may be a demented adult, but he's an adult. He needs to be held accountable like one. Same with any neo-Nazi over the age of 18.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 4:46 PM on August 16, 2017 [40 favorites]
White men: they get to be considered "children" for their whole lives. And let off the hook because "he's just a kid, he doesn't know any better!"
Sheesh. Seeping Baby Man is 70. He's a grandfather, ffs. He may be a demented adult, but he's an adult. He needs to be held accountable like one. Same with any neo-Nazi over the age of 18.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 4:46 PM on August 16, 2017 [40 favorites]
White men get to be considered guileless children up until the moment of death. Black boys get to be considered dangerous men the minute a cop with a gun decides it is so.
posted by Justinian at 4:46 PM on August 16, 2017 [51 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 4:46 PM on August 16, 2017 [51 favorites]
They should at the very least be forced to pay a very high bond to ensure the peace.
This isn't an open-carry state and Boston is a much larger city than Charlottesville with a lot more resources and Boston Police won't take shit from troublemakers. In addition to the front-line officers, they're going to have MBTA buses full of officers and state troopers standing by.
posted by adamg at 4:50 PM on August 16, 2017
This isn't an open-carry state and Boston is a much larger city than Charlottesville with a lot more resources and Boston Police won't take shit from troublemakers. In addition to the front-line officers, they're going to have MBTA buses full of officers and state troopers standing by.
posted by adamg at 4:50 PM on August 16, 2017
In June, Ventura was hired by Russian media outlet RT and now he appears to support Trump again. Oh, and he says that since we've interfered in foreign elections, it's okay that Russia interfered in ours.
I overheard Ventura last week on some show talking up the possibility of running for president in 2020 as the Green Party candidate with noted loon and anti-vaxxer RFK Jr. as his running mate. So, yeah, that's just too fucking perfect.
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 4:51 PM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
I overheard Ventura last week on some show talking up the possibility of running for president in 2020 as the Green Party candidate with noted loon and anti-vaxxer RFK Jr. as his running mate. So, yeah, that's just too fucking perfect.
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 4:51 PM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
He's also held ancillary duties as a urinalysis officer. Urinalysis officer. Urine. Pee.
More than that - he's a pecker checker.
(Urinalysis officers are supposed to watch as the "sample" is, er, delivered, to prevent any funny business with fake samples. Which means watching wangs.)
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:56 PM on August 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
More than that - he's a pecker checker.
(Urinalysis officers are supposed to watch as the "sample" is, er, delivered, to prevent any funny business with fake samples. Which means watching wangs.)
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:56 PM on August 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
This isn't an open-carry state and Boston is a much larger city than Charlottesville with a lot more resources and Boston Police won't take shit from troublemakers. In addition to the front-line officers, they're going to have MBTA buses full of officers and state troopers standing by.When you say troublemakers, are you talking about the white supremacists or the counter-protesters?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:59 PM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
When you say troublemakers, are you talking about the white supremacists or the counter-protesters?
That's what I was thinking.
I'm also worried about any synagogues in the area.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:01 PM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
That's what I was thinking.
I'm also worried about any synagogues in the area.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:01 PM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
WSJ: Trump Set to Roll Back Obama-Era Contraception Rule
posted by zachlipton at 5:02 PM on August 16, 2017 [29 favorites]
The Trump administration is poised to issue a rule unwinding an Obama -era requirement that employee health benefits include contraception, which will spark a fresh round of litigation over an issue that has been before courts for six years.Check a box, deny all your employees birth control coverage because of your religious beliefs. America.
Federal health officials are expected to finalize a regulation that would allow employers with religious or moral objections to birth control to omit coverage for contraception from their workers’ plans, according to two people familiar with its contents. The regulation closely mirrors an earlier, leaked draft, they said.
The Supreme Court has ruled, in a case brought by the arts-and-crafts chain Hobby Lobby, that “closely held” private companies can invoke religious objections to avoid covering contraception.
The Trump administration rule would allow a much broader set of employers to opt out of offering coverage for birth control, making moot a “workaround’’ designed by the Obama administration that allowed women in some cases to obtain coverage even if their employers had declined to offer it directly.
posted by zachlipton at 5:02 PM on August 16, 2017 [29 favorites]
Trump lawyer posts slew of photos of himself with black people — hoping to prove he’s not racist
Several of them are hair & makeup people at CNN apparently.
posted by scalefree at 5:02 PM on August 16, 2017 [18 favorites]
Several of them are hair & makeup people at CNN apparently.
posted by scalefree at 5:02 PM on August 16, 2017 [18 favorites]
Obviously, things are going to get rough.
The bits about the found weapons cache and Rwandan genocide making the rounds show the extra-judicial concerns.
Yet the legal "by the book" things will still go on because unless you are M. Hutchens you won't have anyone watching your court case.
steel and aluminum dumping.
This was an issue during one of the Bushes - I'm guessing Bush the Lesser. The argument revolved around no known modern level of tech or "1st world" economy was in any country that lacked its own ability to produce steel. The article then went into the "mini mills" and said they were not good enough to meet the quantity requirements they felt were needed.
And it seems plenty of congresspeople agreed.
With Virginia coal being "a thing" for Trump and that coal being great for making steel, I hate to say, but Bannon may be right on that item and he'll have support.
posted by rough ashlar at 5:03 PM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
The bits about the found weapons cache and Rwandan genocide making the rounds show the extra-judicial concerns.
Yet the legal "by the book" things will still go on because unless you are M. Hutchens you won't have anyone watching your court case.
steel and aluminum dumping.
This was an issue during one of the Bushes - I'm guessing Bush the Lesser. The argument revolved around no known modern level of tech or "1st world" economy was in any country that lacked its own ability to produce steel. The article then went into the "mini mills" and said they were not good enough to meet the quantity requirements they felt were needed.
And it seems plenty of congresspeople agreed.
With Virginia coal being "a thing" for Trump and that coal being great for making steel, I hate to say, but Bannon may be right on that item and he'll have support.
posted by rough ashlar at 5:03 PM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Trump lawyer posts slew of photos of himself with black people — hoping to prove he’s not racist
@t_b_toro: This looks like a storyboard for Get Out 2.
posted by Roommate at 5:04 PM on August 16, 2017 [18 favorites]
@t_b_toro: This looks like a storyboard for Get Out 2.
posted by Roommate at 5:04 PM on August 16, 2017 [18 favorites]
Several of them are hair & makeup people at CNN apparently.
Other than Don King, they are all people who work at or were on CNN, or people on Trump's payroll. Not even a "I have a black friend" excuse. It's "I have black people I have run into".
posted by chris24 at 5:06 PM on August 16, 2017 [35 favorites]
Other than Don King, they are all people who work at or were on CNN, or people on Trump's payroll. Not even a "I have a black friend" excuse. It's "I have black people I have run into".
posted by chris24 at 5:06 PM on August 16, 2017 [35 favorites]
Phoenix mayor asks Trump to delay his visit, and is, to my mind, quite blunt about saying any pardon of Arpaio will just make everything worse.
posted by yasaman at 5:06 PM on August 16, 2017 [38 favorites]
posted by yasaman at 5:06 PM on August 16, 2017 [38 favorites]
WSJ: Trump Set to Roll Back Obama-Era Contraception Rule
Sources: Trump's Misogyny Resents His White Nationalism Getting All the Attention [fake]
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:09 PM on August 16, 2017 [13 favorites]
Sources: Trump's Misogyny Resents His White Nationalism Getting All the Attention [fake]
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:09 PM on August 16, 2017 [13 favorites]
Some context on rough ashlar's comment above.
Dated January 11 but received in New York at 6:45 p.m. on January 10, the fax from General Romeo Dallaire cited information from "a top-level trainer" for a pro-regime militia group known as the Interahamwe, and warned of an "anti-Tutsi extermination" plot:
Over time, the "genocide fax" became a symbol of the failure of the international community to prevent mass killing in Rwanda. In reply to the fax, U.N. officials rejected Dallaire's request for authority to raid suspected arms caches, and instructed him instead to consult with government leaders tied to the Interahamwe. It was one of several turning points when the United Nations, backed by the United States and other powers, failed to take action that might have prevented the genocide.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:10 PM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
Dated January 11 but received in New York at 6:45 p.m. on January 10, the fax from General Romeo Dallaire cited information from "a top-level trainer" for a pro-regime militia group known as the Interahamwe, and warned of an "anti-Tutsi extermination" plot:
Over time, the "genocide fax" became a symbol of the failure of the international community to prevent mass killing in Rwanda. In reply to the fax, U.N. officials rejected Dallaire's request for authority to raid suspected arms caches, and instructed him instead to consult with government leaders tied to the Interahamwe. It was one of several turning points when the United Nations, backed by the United States and other powers, failed to take action that might have prevented the genocide.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:10 PM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
Honestly, it's hard for me to tell what non-racist policies Bannon has managed to steer Trump into, so I don't see why anyone is supposed to take comfort from the idea he doesn't think we should start a war with North Korea or that he supposedly wants to increase taxes for millionaires.
posted by zachlipton at 5:13 PM on August 16, 2017
posted by zachlipton at 5:13 PM on August 16, 2017
I read that NYT article about Trump's lawyer and the look on my face the whole time actually wound up hurting my jaw, for real.
It's crazy racist uncles all the way down.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:17 PM on August 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
It's crazy racist uncles all the way down.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:17 PM on August 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
Trump lawyer [Cohen] posts slew of photos of himself with black people — hoping to prove he’s not racist
Several of them are hair & makeup people at CNN apparently.
Trump Lawyer [Dowd] Forwards Email Echoing Secessionist Rhetoric
Are they like competing to see who can perform the most jaw-dropping racist tropes in one week? Is this some kind of self-sacrificing "hold my beer" diversionary tactic? Nah, they're probably just that blinkered and dim.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:17 PM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
Several of them are hair & makeup people at CNN apparently.
Trump Lawyer [Dowd] Forwards Email Echoing Secessionist Rhetoric
Are they like competing to see who can perform the most jaw-dropping racist tropes in one week? Is this some kind of self-sacrificing "hold my beer" diversionary tactic? Nah, they're probably just that blinkered and dim.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:17 PM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
Daily Caller says (link is to tweet on purpose) that Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, Charles Johnson, and Julian Assange had a meeting today at the Ecuadorian embassy in London, apparently to discuss if there could be a deal with the White House that brought Assange back to the US.
Just three of the worst people all in one room there...
posted by zachlipton at 5:21 PM on August 16, 2017 [17 favorites]
Just three of the worst people all in one room there...
posted by zachlipton at 5:21 PM on August 16, 2017 [17 favorites]
Are they like competing to see who can perform the most jaw-dropping racist tropes in one week?
Close. I think they're all vying for attention & approval from their master, Darth Stupid. Everything they say has one audience in mind, the Man on the Golden Throne.
posted by scalefree at 5:25 PM on August 16, 2017
Close. I think they're all vying for attention & approval from their master, Darth Stupid. Everything they say has one audience in mind, the Man on the Golden Throne.
posted by scalefree at 5:25 PM on August 16, 2017
Holy moley that Phoenix mayor statement. He's straight-up saying he can't stop the POTUS from renting a venue, because of the Constitution. It's like he's talking about GWAR.
posted by mcdoublewide at 5:28 PM on August 16, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by mcdoublewide at 5:28 PM on August 16, 2017 [28 favorites]
a deal with the White House that brought Assange back to the US.
Uhh . . Back?
posted by rc3spencer at 5:31 PM on August 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
Uhh . . Back?
posted by rc3spencer at 5:31 PM on August 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
Mod note: "I've condemned neo-Nazis. I like Nazis who don't half-ass it, believe me." fake
posted by kirkaracha (staff) at 5:31 PM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha (staff) at 5:31 PM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Uhh . . Back?
Er, good point. To the US, per the story.
posted by zachlipton at 5:33 PM on August 16, 2017
Er, good point. To the US, per the story.
posted by zachlipton at 5:33 PM on August 16, 2017
Anyone know what to make of this?
Pesach 'Pace' Lattin @pacelattin Aug 15
Pesach 'Pace' Lattin @pacelattin Aug 15
Source in WH has told me that Trump Co and Trump as CEO, has been served with subpoenas yesterday by Mueller and he is furious.posted by mikelieman at 5:35 PM on August 16, 2017 [62 favorites]
a deal with the White House that brought Assange back to the US.
As Senior Advisor for Ratfucking? A victory parade? They're not going to prosecute him now, and hasn't Assange allegedly been hiding out from just that probability? It's not clear what Assange is still afraid of with his Russian co-agent in the White House. Unless he was hiding from the rape charges this whole time after all.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:38 PM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
As Senior Advisor for Ratfucking? A victory parade? They're not going to prosecute him now, and hasn't Assange allegedly been hiding out from just that probability? It's not clear what Assange is still afraid of with his Russian co-agent in the White House. Unless he was hiding from the rape charges this whole time after all.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:38 PM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm beginning to wonder if one of the important things about the last week has been the accepted presence of armed militias at these political events. They are there to threaten and prevent counter-protests. How long till the left has guns too? Almost entorely unremarked upon given the other craziness. This is within the government's ability to control but it is hard to imagine it happening.
David Frum at the Atlantic The Chilling Effects of Openly Displayed Firearms
posted by shothotbot at 5:41 PM on August 16, 2017 [22 favorites]
David Frum at the Atlantic The Chilling Effects of Openly Displayed Firearms
posted by shothotbot at 5:41 PM on August 16, 2017 [22 favorites]
Anyone know what to make of this?
This? Well, I can make a hat; I can make a brooch; I can make a pterodactyl!
posted by Celsius1414 at 5:42 PM on August 16, 2017 [40 favorites]
This? Well, I can make a hat; I can make a brooch; I can make a pterodactyl!
posted by Celsius1414 at 5:42 PM on August 16, 2017 [40 favorites]
Robin Wright, The New Yorker: "Is America Headed for a New Kind of Civil War?"
Based on his experience in civil wars on three continents, [national security expert Keith] Mines cited five conditions that support his prediction: entrenched national polarization, with no obvious meeting place for resolution; increasingly divisive press coverage and information flows; weakened institutions, notably Congress and the judiciary; a sellout or abandonment of responsibility by political leadership; and the legitimization of violence as the “in” way to either conduct discourse or solve disputes.posted by tivalasvegas at 5:46 PM on August 16, 2017 [19 favorites]
The Chilling Effects of Openly Displayed Firearms
This is where I pause to consider how differently things would go if you were to switch out the race of the firearm-carrying protestors in the examples in this article.
posted by Rykey at 5:50 PM on August 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
This is where I pause to consider how differently things would go if you were to switch out the race of the firearm-carrying protestors in the examples in this article.
posted by Rykey at 5:50 PM on August 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
This is where I pause to consider how differently things would go if you were to switch out the race of the firearm-carrying protestors in the examples in this article.
We know how that turns out - Republican Saint Reagan, the Republican signs a bill outlawing open carry. Conservatives nod in agreement, because, "those people" shouldn't have guns.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 5:55 PM on August 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
mikelieman: "Anyone know what to make of this?"
Hmmm. At this point anything's possible but I'd like to point out that I haven't seen this picked up anywhere else and it's been almost a day and a half since this tweet. So we should believe that this guy who seems to run a Las Vegas-centric news and/or marketing (?) site has better White House sources than, say, Maggie Haberman or any other major national politics reporter? And frankly, given how leaky this administration is, I don't know how it'd be possible to subpoena Trump himself and not have 100 leaks to every outlet from NYT to WaPo to Daily Beast to Buzzfeed within the hour.
posted by mhum at 5:59 PM on August 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
Hmmm. At this point anything's possible but I'd like to point out that I haven't seen this picked up anywhere else and it's been almost a day and a half since this tweet. So we should believe that this guy who seems to run a Las Vegas-centric news and/or marketing (?) site has better White House sources than, say, Maggie Haberman or any other major national politics reporter? And frankly, given how leaky this administration is, I don't know how it'd be possible to subpoena Trump himself and not have 100 leaks to every outlet from NYT to WaPo to Daily Beast to Buzzfeed within the hour.
posted by mhum at 5:59 PM on August 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
General Kelly's first two weeks are going GREAT (WaPo, Ashley Parker and Robert Costa):
“It’s clear Kelly is having a stabilizing and organizing influence on the White House,” said former House speaker Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.), an informal Trump adviser. But, he added, “He will gradually have an impact on Trump but it won’t be immediate. There are parts of Trump that are almost impossible to manage.”posted by yasaman at 6:00 PM on August 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
Another Republican operative and unofficial White House adviser was more definitive, saying that no matter how respected or talented Kelly may be, his first 2½ weeks on the job demonstrated an essential truth about the Trump White House: The president will act as he so pleases, even despite — and sometimes to spite — the efforts of his aides.
“The Kelly era was a bright, shining interlude between failed attempts to right the Trump presidency and it has now come to a close after a short but glorious run,” the operative said. “Like all people who work for the president, he has since experienced the limits of the president’s promises to cooperate in order to ensure the success of the enterprise.”
This portrait of the White House under Kelly comes from interviews with 17 West Wing aides, informal advisers, Republican lawmakers and Trump confidants, many speaking on the condition of anonymity to offer a more candid assessment.
During Kelly’s short tenure, Trump has startled the world with his bellicose rhetoric on North Korea and attacked Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), further imperiling his stalled legislative agenda.
Nonetheless, Kelly has largely improved staff morale, and implemented a rigor and order that has made West Wing aides feel both more optimistic and less mistrustful of one another, several White House aides said.
"It’s clear Kelly is having a stabilizing and organizing influence on the White House
*spock-like eyebrow raise*
posted by entropicamericana at 6:06 PM on August 16, 2017 [40 favorites]
*spock-like eyebrow raise*
posted by entropicamericana at 6:06 PM on August 16, 2017 [40 favorites]
They're timeline-hoppers who know that in 72\% of universes without Kelly in that role, Trump has actually exploded into a fog of nano-Trumps that will consume Earth in 2^20 doublings.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:10 PM on August 16, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:10 PM on August 16, 2017 [16 favorites]
Trump Lawyer John Dowd Forwards Email Echoing Secessionist Rhetoric
The NYT identifies its originator: "The email’s author, Jerome Almon, runs several websites alleging government conspiracies and arguing that the F.B.I. has been infiltrated by Islamic terrorists. He once unsuccessfully sued the State Department for $900 million over claims of discrimination."
"Uh ... what kind of lawyering is this?" asks Matthew Yglesias. "The kind meant to distract the press from the fact that his client is under federal investigation by bombarding them with bizarre claims," replies Sarah Kendzior.
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:11 PM on August 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
The NYT identifies its originator: "The email’s author, Jerome Almon, runs several websites alleging government conspiracies and arguing that the F.B.I. has been infiltrated by Islamic terrorists. He once unsuccessfully sued the State Department for $900 million over claims of discrimination."
"Uh ... what kind of lawyering is this?" asks Matthew Yglesias. "The kind meant to distract the press from the fact that his client is under federal investigation by bombarding them with bizarre claims," replies Sarah Kendzior.
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:11 PM on August 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
17 West Wing aides, informal advisers, Republican lawmakers and Trump confidants
OK, Kelly has had a rough start, but at least he has the leak situation locked down.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:13 PM on August 16, 2017 [45 favorites]
OK, Kelly has had a rough start, but at least he has the leak situation locked down.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:13 PM on August 16, 2017 [45 favorites]
Smoking gun? Ukraine hacker claims he wrote malware used to hack DNC, turns himself in to FBI.
posted by scalefree at 6:15 PM on August 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 6:15 PM on August 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
“The Kelly era was a bright, shining interlude between failed attempts to right the Trump presidency and it has now come to a close after a short but glorious run”
I realize this is a cliché at this point, but this is how low the bar is now: that something like 15 minutes where we don't hear anything from Trump is a shining and glorious age. He is literally having an impact on spacetime.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 6:18 PM on August 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
I realize this is a cliché at this point, but this is how low the bar is now: that something like 15 minutes where we don't hear anything from Trump is a shining and glorious age. He is literally having an impact on spacetime.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 6:18 PM on August 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
Judis posits three possible explanations for The Shithead's behaviour: a) That it is all in service of some political strategy of creating some sort of "workers party" based on nationalism, protectionism, and "abandoning political correctness", b) that he is an out-and-out white nationalist/supremacist or c) that he's reverting to childhood.
Have all of these "Why does Trump Trump?" writers never met a malignant narcissist before?
Here's how Trump's brain works. From his own point of view.
1. Donald Trump is the smartest, most beautiful, most successful, and most popular person who has ever lived. He is inherently superior to all other humans because he is Trump. He's the best baseball player, the best golfer, the best President.
2. Everyone knows that Donald Trump is superior, and when people claim that he is not, they are deliberately lying in order to insult Trump.
3. Trump's staff are superior to other humans because they work for Trump.
4. Trump's family are superior to other humans because they are an extension of Trump.
5. White males are superior to other humans because they are more Trump-like than others.
6. Because Donald Trump is so important, most things that happen on Earth are fundamentally about him. When people do things -- any things -- they are either trying to help Trump or hurt Trump.
7. Everyone who says bad things about Trump is part of a vast conspiracy to defeat Trump. This conspiracy exists because all people are jealous of Trump.
8. Trump may not know the history of the White Supremacy movement or really understand its talking points, but he knows (a) they voted for him and (b) they agree with Trump that he is superior to at least some other humans, so they are on his side.
9. There is no morality, no right or wrong. There is only Good for Trump and Bad for Trump. White supremacists are Good for Trump. Democrats are Bad for Trump. The media is Bad for Trump. If it turned out that serial killers voted 100% Trump, then Trump would make a speech about how people aren't fair to serial killers. This sounds ridiculous but he's already defended sexual predators and Nazis.
This is why Trump can use the example "I could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and my numbers would still go up." Anyone with a tiny sense of morality or empathy would be repulsed by the idea of shooting someone, would realize that saying that makes him look like a lunatic. Trump has no morality.
Any politician with morality has certain standards they would follow even if it meant losing votes. People like Orrin Hatch and John McCain have condemned Nazis. If they found out that White Supremacists were campaigning for them, voting for them--they'd probably say "I don't want those votes. I don't want that support. Even if I lose." Trump won't say that because he has no morality whatsoever. If something helps Trump win then it is Good for Trump, period.
When Trump says things that sound like even the tiniest hint of morality -- like when he condemned Nazis -- he is invariably reading a statement written by someone else, and he'll usually contradict it when he's confronted without prepared remarks.
10. Trump can't "revert to childhood" because he never left childhood. That's what Narcissism is. All 3-year-olds are narcissists. They don't care about right and wrong, they don't think of anyone but their own family, they are afraid of anyone who is different, and all that matters is whether someone is giving them ice cream or not.
11. Since there is no morality there is also no Truth. Trump will say whatever he wants to, whatever he believes will help him. "I will make all of your dreams come true." He will contradict himself if he wants to. He will call things lies even though they're obviously true. Because there is no Truth or Lies. There is only Words that are Good for Trump and Words that are Bad for Trump.
12. Trump will align himself with anyone who will help him. Republicans, Evangelicals, Nazis, Russians, whatever. He will repeat what they say, do what they tell him to, as long as it sounds like it will be Good for Trump. If they say bad things about Trump, he'll break away and pretend he never allied with them.
13. The best thing anyone can do is say good things about Trump, and the worst thing anyone can do is say bad things about Trump. He's paying a compliment to the Charlottesville victim's mother when he says "She said some very nice things about me" because that is the best thing that anyone can do. Everything else about the situation -- like the family tragedy -- means nothing to Trump.
Sorry for the rant but this has been boiling up in my brain for a long time and it needed to come out. I'm going to go take a shower now.
posted by mmoncur at 6:18 PM on August 16, 2017 [179 favorites]
Have all of these "Why does Trump Trump?" writers never met a malignant narcissist before?
Here's how Trump's brain works. From his own point of view.
1. Donald Trump is the smartest, most beautiful, most successful, and most popular person who has ever lived. He is inherently superior to all other humans because he is Trump. He's the best baseball player, the best golfer, the best President.
2. Everyone knows that Donald Trump is superior, and when people claim that he is not, they are deliberately lying in order to insult Trump.
3. Trump's staff are superior to other humans because they work for Trump.
4. Trump's family are superior to other humans because they are an extension of Trump.
5. White males are superior to other humans because they are more Trump-like than others.
6. Because Donald Trump is so important, most things that happen on Earth are fundamentally about him. When people do things -- any things -- they are either trying to help Trump or hurt Trump.
7. Everyone who says bad things about Trump is part of a vast conspiracy to defeat Trump. This conspiracy exists because all people are jealous of Trump.
8. Trump may not know the history of the White Supremacy movement or really understand its talking points, but he knows (a) they voted for him and (b) they agree with Trump that he is superior to at least some other humans, so they are on his side.
9. There is no morality, no right or wrong. There is only Good for Trump and Bad for Trump. White supremacists are Good for Trump. Democrats are Bad for Trump. The media is Bad for Trump. If it turned out that serial killers voted 100% Trump, then Trump would make a speech about how people aren't fair to serial killers. This sounds ridiculous but he's already defended sexual predators and Nazis.
This is why Trump can use the example "I could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and my numbers would still go up." Anyone with a tiny sense of morality or empathy would be repulsed by the idea of shooting someone, would realize that saying that makes him look like a lunatic. Trump has no morality.
Any politician with morality has certain standards they would follow even if it meant losing votes. People like Orrin Hatch and John McCain have condemned Nazis. If they found out that White Supremacists were campaigning for them, voting for them--they'd probably say "I don't want those votes. I don't want that support. Even if I lose." Trump won't say that because he has no morality whatsoever. If something helps Trump win then it is Good for Trump, period.
When Trump says things that sound like even the tiniest hint of morality -- like when he condemned Nazis -- he is invariably reading a statement written by someone else, and he'll usually contradict it when he's confronted without prepared remarks.
10. Trump can't "revert to childhood" because he never left childhood. That's what Narcissism is. All 3-year-olds are narcissists. They don't care about right and wrong, they don't think of anyone but their own family, they are afraid of anyone who is different, and all that matters is whether someone is giving them ice cream or not.
11. Since there is no morality there is also no Truth. Trump will say whatever he wants to, whatever he believes will help him. "I will make all of your dreams come true." He will contradict himself if he wants to. He will call things lies even though they're obviously true. Because there is no Truth or Lies. There is only Words that are Good for Trump and Words that are Bad for Trump.
12. Trump will align himself with anyone who will help him. Republicans, Evangelicals, Nazis, Russians, whatever. He will repeat what they say, do what they tell him to, as long as it sounds like it will be Good for Trump. If they say bad things about Trump, he'll break away and pretend he never allied with them.
13. The best thing anyone can do is say good things about Trump, and the worst thing anyone can do is say bad things about Trump. He's paying a compliment to the Charlottesville victim's mother when he says "She said some very nice things about me" because that is the best thing that anyone can do. Everything else about the situation -- like the family tragedy -- means nothing to Trump.
Sorry for the rant but this has been boiling up in my brain for a long time and it needed to come out. I'm going to go take a shower now.
posted by mmoncur at 6:18 PM on August 16, 2017 [179 favorites]
From Nate Silver: As Trump’s problems mount, the media’s obsession with Clinton’s email server–literally the most-covered issue of 2016– looks worse & worse.
I think the press coverage of the 2016 campaign will go down in history as a worse performance than their cheerleading leading up to the invasion of Iraq. And that killed hundreds of thousands of people.
posted by Justinian at 6:21 PM on August 16, 2017 [108 favorites]
I think the press coverage of the 2016 campaign will go down in history as a worse performance than their cheerleading leading up to the invasion of Iraq. And that killed hundreds of thousands of people.
posted by Justinian at 6:21 PM on August 16, 2017 [108 favorites]
When you say troublemakers, are you talking about the white supremacists or the counter-protesters?
Very much the Nazis. BPD may not be perfect, but we're no Seattle (the cops at the front line will be dressed in their normal uniforms, not riot gear, for starters).
There's going to be a cordon of cops around the Nazis (I presume at the Parkman Bandstand) so they can throw their little tantrum but not get physically near any of the vastly larger numbers of counter demonstrators. And one of the permit conditions was that they can't bring in any flagpoles or even sticks.
Yes, at a Monday press conference at which he and the mayor expressed their disgust for what happened in Charlottesville and at which they both said they wished the Nazis would just stay out of Boston (but, you know, First Amendment), Commissioner William Evans did also warn he won't tolerate any violence from non-Nazis, either. But based on their actions over the past several years (during Occupy Boston, the cops would shut down roads so protesters could march without getting run over, rather than, oh, corking them on a bridge), well, again, we're not Seattle or most other cities.
posted by adamg at 6:25 PM on August 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
Very much the Nazis. BPD may not be perfect, but we're no Seattle (the cops at the front line will be dressed in their normal uniforms, not riot gear, for starters).
There's going to be a cordon of cops around the Nazis (I presume at the Parkman Bandstand) so they can throw their little tantrum but not get physically near any of the vastly larger numbers of counter demonstrators. And one of the permit conditions was that they can't bring in any flagpoles or even sticks.
Yes, at a Monday press conference at which he and the mayor expressed their disgust for what happened in Charlottesville and at which they both said they wished the Nazis would just stay out of Boston (but, you know, First Amendment), Commissioner William Evans did also warn he won't tolerate any violence from non-Nazis, either. But based on their actions over the past several years (during Occupy Boston, the cops would shut down roads so protesters could march without getting run over, rather than, oh, corking them on a bridge), well, again, we're not Seattle or most other cities.
posted by adamg at 6:25 PM on August 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
When Mike Pence assumes the Presidency, does anyone think that Donald Trump and his neo-nazi horde are going to go quietly into the night? Pence is doomed, and Trump will make his life a living hell. The Republican civil war until now is nothing compared to what a spurned, betrayed, out-of-office, no fucks to give Donald Trump will wage. And if you think Pence can make some kind of "go quietly, earn a pardon" deal, think again. First look at Gerald Ford. Pardoning Nixon destroyed Ford in the polls. Second, do you imagine for one moment that Donald would keep his end of the deal? As soon as the ink is dry on that pardon, Trump would be on twitter screaming "fake news! drain the swamp! make america great again again 2020!"
posted by Glibpaxman at 6:26 PM on August 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Glibpaxman at 6:26 PM on August 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
Smoking gun? Ukraine hacker claims he wrote malware used to hack DNC, turns himself in to FBI.
The virus writer isn't the smoking gun unless he can connect the Trump campaign to knowledge and use of the stolen information. He's a piece of the puzzle, but probably just a blackhat hacker dude who was stealing credit cards until the FSB noticed him, it doesn't seem likely he'd be the link between Russia, who we already know did the hacking, and how the Republicans directed the FSB on how to use the proceeds.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:26 PM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
The virus writer isn't the smoking gun unless he can connect the Trump campaign to knowledge and use of the stolen information. He's a piece of the puzzle, but probably just a blackhat hacker dude who was stealing credit cards until the FSB noticed him, it doesn't seem likely he'd be the link between Russia, who we already know did the hacking, and how the Republicans directed the FSB on how to use the proceeds.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:26 PM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
I realize this is a cliché at this point, but this is how low the bar is now: that something like 15 minutes where we don't hear anything from Trump is a shining and glorious age. He is literally having an impact on spacetime.
I'm pretty sure that comment was dripping with sarcasm and bitterness. That may be projection on my part.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:27 PM on August 16, 2017
I'm pretty sure that comment was dripping with sarcasm and bitterness. That may be projection on my part.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:27 PM on August 16, 2017
@WillieGeist
NEW: Sources close to @JohnKasich tell me, after Charlottesville, there is growing sense of "moral imperative" to primary Trump in 2020.
---
Yo, how about a moral imperative to do something before three years from now?
posted by chris24 at 6:27 PM on August 16, 2017 [127 favorites]
NEW: Sources close to @JohnKasich tell me, after Charlottesville, there is growing sense of "moral imperative" to primary Trump in 2020.
---
Yo, how about a moral imperative to do something before three years from now?
posted by chris24 at 6:27 PM on August 16, 2017 [127 favorites]
Yeah, if they weren't moral imperativing from shit like two years ago, they ain't doing it now either.
posted by Celsius1414 at 6:30 PM on August 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Celsius1414 at 6:30 PM on August 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
Singing in Charlottesville. All arounf UVA they are singing. Watch. It is organizied and beautiful.
posted by vrakatar at 6:34 PM on August 16, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by vrakatar at 6:34 PM on August 16, 2017 [20 favorites]
one of the permit conditions was that they can't bring in any flagpoles or even sticks.
Massachusetts also has strict gun control and no open carry. I'm not saying "We got this" per se--there are many troublesome totally legal things that Nazis can use to stir shit up, I have been paying attention--but just outlinging how I'd expect this to go somewhat differently. I have a family member who works for State Police in MA and she says they haven't started sending out emails about this yet to the best of her knowledge (BPD and State Police have different jurisdiction) but she'll let me know.
posted by jessamyn at 6:35 PM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
Massachusetts also has strict gun control and no open carry. I'm not saying "We got this" per se--there are many troublesome totally legal things that Nazis can use to stir shit up, I have been paying attention--but just outlinging how I'd expect this to go somewhat differently. I have a family member who works for State Police in MA and she says they haven't started sending out emails about this yet to the best of her knowledge (BPD and State Police have different jurisdiction) but she'll let me know.
posted by jessamyn at 6:35 PM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
Trump's removal isn't the end.
Yep: ousting Trump is taking the foot off the accelerator pedal of the car hurtling toward a cliff.
posted by Celsius1414 at 6:35 PM on August 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
Yep: ousting Trump is taking the foot off the accelerator pedal of the car hurtling toward a cliff.
posted by Celsius1414 at 6:35 PM on August 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
A list of companies that support Trump so we can drive them to ruin
All I was looking for.
posted by petebest at 6:43 PM on August 16, 2017 [37 favorites]
All I was looking for.
posted by petebest at 6:43 PM on August 16, 2017 [37 favorites]
vrakatar, watch where? I need to see such things.
posted by Cold Lurkey at 6:46 PM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Cold Lurkey at 6:46 PM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trump is done. Once he steps out of this presidency it is over for him. It is over right now, he just can't fathom it. He is a broken speaker system. The record is going 'round, saying scratch, scratch, scratch, in between bits of martial music from long ago. His dreams have to be out the window, he just can't see the ground coming. Sad thing is the whole rest of the international grifters that comprise his family will go on, but at least it won't be on our nickel, unless they can somehow war profiteer. Imagine that. They have hotels everywhere to run to. Lord.
posted by Oyéah at 6:48 PM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 6:48 PM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
8. Trump may not know the history of the White Supremacy movement or really understand its talking points, but he knows (a) they voted for him and (b) they agree with Trump that he is superior to at least some other humans, so they are on his side.
This is exactly right. Trump defends white supremacists because white supremacists shower him with the adoration that he so desperately craves. When people criticize white supremacists, they are threatening one of the main lifelines that hold Trump's fragile ego together. And that is intolerable to Trump.
I mean, there's zero doubt in my mind that Trump, left to his own devices, would still be a vile racist himself. (There is, after all, a reason that the Nazis flocked to him in the first place.)
But I don't think it even makes sense to talk about what Trump does or doesn't "know". Any given fact may or may not be floating around in his brain somewhere. But his brain doesn't fit facts into the same kind of mental framework as a healthy person's brain.
Most of us are motivated to know things by our natural senses of curiosity and empathy, and to better understand the world so that we might choose more effective strategies to navigate it. The facts that we learn get assembled and reassembled into a web of moral, intellectual, and aesthetic frameworks.
Trump does not do that. His ego is in fight-or-flight mode at all times. Faced with that urgent existential crisis, his brain doesn't even allow his intellect or moral sense to get a word in edgewise. (And, indeed, this situation has prevented those faculties from ever developing in the first place.)
He is a prisoner of his own diseased mind, perpetually reacting in the moment to this ever-present threat to his own psychic integrity - and we're all paying the price for it.
He is, as already mentioned, a vile racist. But he would defend literally *anyone* who praised and adulated him. It just so happens that only horrible people praise and adulate him, because he is horrible.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 6:48 PM on August 16, 2017 [25 favorites]
This is exactly right. Trump defends white supremacists because white supremacists shower him with the adoration that he so desperately craves. When people criticize white supremacists, they are threatening one of the main lifelines that hold Trump's fragile ego together. And that is intolerable to Trump.
I mean, there's zero doubt in my mind that Trump, left to his own devices, would still be a vile racist himself. (There is, after all, a reason that the Nazis flocked to him in the first place.)
But I don't think it even makes sense to talk about what Trump does or doesn't "know". Any given fact may or may not be floating around in his brain somewhere. But his brain doesn't fit facts into the same kind of mental framework as a healthy person's brain.
Most of us are motivated to know things by our natural senses of curiosity and empathy, and to better understand the world so that we might choose more effective strategies to navigate it. The facts that we learn get assembled and reassembled into a web of moral, intellectual, and aesthetic frameworks.
Trump does not do that. His ego is in fight-or-flight mode at all times. Faced with that urgent existential crisis, his brain doesn't even allow his intellect or moral sense to get a word in edgewise. (And, indeed, this situation has prevented those faculties from ever developing in the first place.)
He is a prisoner of his own diseased mind, perpetually reacting in the moment to this ever-present threat to his own psychic integrity - and we're all paying the price for it.
He is, as already mentioned, a vile racist. But he would defend literally *anyone* who praised and adulated him. It just so happens that only horrible people praise and adulate him, because he is horrible.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 6:48 PM on August 16, 2017 [25 favorites]
@bromanconsul
TRUMP: I like the war heroes who didn't get captured.
REPORTER: what about the generals of a failed rebellion
TRUMP: they deserve statues
posted by chris24 at 6:51 PM on August 16, 2017 [82 favorites]
TRUMP: I like the war heroes who didn't get captured.
REPORTER: what about the generals of a failed rebellion
TRUMP: they deserve statues
posted by chris24 at 6:51 PM on August 16, 2017 [82 favorites]
Pro-Trump Rally Now Scheduled at Same Time, Place as Juggalo March on Washington
You know what they say?
Fuck your rebel flag.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:51 PM on August 16, 2017 [37 favorites]
You know what they say?
Fuck your rebel flag.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:51 PM on August 16, 2017 [37 favorites]
Was sitting at a big table alone at a cafe today, working, when two people came in who looked around for something other than a tiny table. So I asked if they'd like me to move. And they were delighted, but checked several times to make sure it was okay and then I moved.
Now, I'm a white lady. These were people of color. One of them exclaimed how kind I was, and I said, "I think we could all use more kindness these days, don't you?" And in short order the male half of the male-female couple brought up Trump and how the Nazi's are coming to Crissy Field in San Francisco and how he will be forced to be there, to protest, when it happens.
And I thought, jeez, I don't want to counter protest because I'm afraid. And then I thought, this middle-aged Black man feels like he has to be there. So I guess I'll go too. Because I can't let PoC carry this burden alone. I need to step up. And then I sheepishly admitted outloud to them that I feel like I should apologise to every single person of color I meet for the shitstorm that America has been and continues to be when it comes to race. And they laughed at that and insisted that was silly (I know), and we agreed that at least the myth of a post-racial US has been discredited. And I left Oakland's Cafe Jejena knowing that I will miss it when I leave the Bay Area, as inevitably I must.
Which is a long-winded way of saying, oh MeFites, thank you for the solace you provide daily.
posted by Bella Donna at 6:52 PM on August 16, 2017 [109 favorites]
Now, I'm a white lady. These were people of color. One of them exclaimed how kind I was, and I said, "I think we could all use more kindness these days, don't you?" And in short order the male half of the male-female couple brought up Trump and how the Nazi's are coming to Crissy Field in San Francisco and how he will be forced to be there, to protest, when it happens.
And I thought, jeez, I don't want to counter protest because I'm afraid. And then I thought, this middle-aged Black man feels like he has to be there. So I guess I'll go too. Because I can't let PoC carry this burden alone. I need to step up. And then I sheepishly admitted outloud to them that I feel like I should apologise to every single person of color I meet for the shitstorm that America has been and continues to be when it comes to race. And they laughed at that and insisted that was silly (I know), and we agreed that at least the myth of a post-racial US has been discredited. And I left Oakland's Cafe Jejena knowing that I will miss it when I leave the Bay Area, as inevitably I must.
Which is a long-winded way of saying, oh MeFites, thank you for the solace you provide daily.
posted by Bella Donna at 6:52 PM on August 16, 2017 [109 favorites]
Seth Meyer's latest Closer Look at how Trump's Press Conference Showed Us Who He Really Is. Seth Meyer is awesome: He helps me stay sane.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 6:52 PM on August 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 6:52 PM on August 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
juggalos v. nazis: no matter who wins, we lose.
j/k go team juggalo
posted by murphy slaw at 6:56 PM on August 16, 2017 [45 favorites]
j/k go team juggalo
posted by murphy slaw at 6:56 PM on August 16, 2017 [45 favorites]
If 2017 contains a livestream of Juggalos brawling with white supremacists on the streets of DC...
My brain will be officially done.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 6:59 PM on August 16, 2017 [44 favorites]
My brain will be officially done.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 6:59 PM on August 16, 2017 [44 favorites]
juggalos v. nazis
ICP needs to monetize this ASAP.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:00 PM on August 16, 2017 [14 favorites]
ICP needs to monetize this ASAP.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:00 PM on August 16, 2017 [14 favorites]
cnn is cutting to the UVA footage, lurky. Perhaps a thousand, organizied by word of mouth. No social media.
posted by vrakatar at 7:01 PM on August 16, 2017
posted by vrakatar at 7:01 PM on August 16, 2017
Jonathan Swan on the fallout from Bannon's extremely odd interview: Steve Bannon thought he wasn't giving an interview
posted by zachlipton at 7:03 PM on August 16, 2017 [39 favorites]
Steve Bannon's White House colleagues can't believe what they're reading tonight — and here's the twist: neither can Bannon.I don't entirely understand this. Either Bannon was hopped up on cocaine or he knew exactly what he was doing when he gave this interview. So why?
The White House chief strategist has told associates he never intended to do an "interview" with an editor at the American Prospect, a left-wing publication.
Bannon has told associates that he admired the author's stance on China, and so called the journalist, Robert Kuttner, on Tuesday, to discuss his piece. Apparently Bannon never thought that the journalist might take his (very newsworthy) comments and turn them into a story. It's Anthony Scaramucci all over again (minus the curse words.)
The result is not good for Bannon, who is already under pressure, with colleagues lined up against him and a president who agrees with him ideologically but tells associates he thinks Bannon is a leaker.
Here's what one of Bannon's colleagues — somebody who's not an enemy of his — told me after reading the piece: "Since Steve apparently enjoys casually undermining U.S. national security, I'll put this in terms he'll understand: This is DEFCON 1-level bad."
posted by zachlipton at 7:03 PM on August 16, 2017 [39 favorites]
>> Steve Bannon thought he wasn't giving an interview (while talking to a journalist on the phone).
> I don't entirely understand this. Either Bannon was hopped up on cocaine or he knew exactly what he was doing when he gave this interview. So why?
Isn't that the very definition of a gaffe, when you accidentally tell the truth? And yeah, maybe the pharmaceuticals helped.
posted by RedOrGreen at 7:06 PM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
> I don't entirely understand this. Either Bannon was hopped up on cocaine or he knew exactly what he was doing when he gave this interview. So why?
Isn't that the very definition of a gaffe, when you accidentally tell the truth? And yeah, maybe the pharmaceuticals helped.
posted by RedOrGreen at 7:06 PM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
steve bannon is occasionally clever, but never forget that he's a moron
posted by murphy slaw at 7:12 PM on August 16, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 7:12 PM on August 16, 2017 [34 favorites]
When I post a comment, my browser helpfully scrolls me back to the top of the thread for a second while it reloads. So I just got a chance to fondly admire comments from those innocent summer days of last week, when we were merely worried about a nuclear exchange between two narcissistic bullies, instead of actual Klansmen marching with torches and Nazis murdering people in the street.
What the actual fuck, 2017?
posted by RedOrGreen at 7:12 PM on August 16, 2017 [41 favorites]
What the actual fuck, 2017?
posted by RedOrGreen at 7:12 PM on August 16, 2017 [41 favorites]
Steve Bannon thought he wasn't giving an interview
It's his Moochie Moment!
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:16 PM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's his Moochie Moment!
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:16 PM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
The ACLU California has just come out and declared that hate speech isn't free speech and I'm all out of evens.
Donate to the SPLC, the ADL, anyone about the ACLU. Y Combinator has destroyed them, as many predicted when they made that particular deal with the devil.
posted by Yowser at 7:17 PM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Donate to the SPLC, the ADL, anyone about the ACLU. Y Combinator has destroyed them, as many predicted when they made that particular deal with the devil.
posted by Yowser at 7:17 PM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
So why?
A variation on Trump's Razor: Bannon isn't entirely stupid. But he has no idea how to play this game. Almost none of them do, and the ones that might have the slightest clue have been fired or marginalized.
posted by honestcoyote at 7:18 PM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
A variation on Trump's Razor: Bannon isn't entirely stupid. But he has no idea how to play this game. Almost none of them do, and the ones that might have the slightest clue have been fired or marginalized.
posted by honestcoyote at 7:18 PM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
The ACLU California has just come out and declared that hate speech isn't free speech and I'm all out of evens.
You have no fucking idea what you're talking about, so please stop doing it.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:19 PM on August 16, 2017 [28 favorites]
You have no fucking idea what you're talking about, so please stop doing it.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:19 PM on August 16, 2017 [28 favorites]
White supremacist violence is not free speech. Straight from the horse's mouth.
posted by Yowser at 7:21 PM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 7:21 PM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
Annnnd he's lost The Federalist.
Donald Trump Needs To Not Be President Yesterday
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:22 PM on August 16, 2017 [22 favorites]
Donald Trump Needs To Not Be President Yesterday
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:22 PM on August 16, 2017 [22 favorites]
White supremacist violence is not free speech. Straight from the horse's mouth.
Yes. That's a good thing. Theyre saying violence is not speech protected by the First Amendment.
I repeat, again, you have no fucking idea what you are talking about on the subject of the ACLU or American law. So please stop polluting these threads with your ignorant reactions.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:24 PM on August 16, 2017 [53 favorites]
Yes. That's a good thing. Theyre saying violence is not speech protected by the First Amendment.
I repeat, again, you have no fucking idea what you are talking about on the subject of the ACLU or American law. So please stop polluting these threads with your ignorant reactions.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:24 PM on August 16, 2017 [53 favorites]
The ACLU is a powerful force for good. When the travel ban happened, they were on the front lines and getting things done.
Free speech for Nazis seems harmless when the Nazis themselves are ridiculous and marginalized. Free speech for Nazis is a soul-searching problem when the Nazis have the ear and goodwill of the President of the country. Who among us would have thought this could ever be the case?
posted by Slothrup at 7:24 PM on August 16, 2017 [23 favorites]
Free speech for Nazis seems harmless when the Nazis themselves are ridiculous and marginalized. Free speech for Nazis is a soul-searching problem when the Nazis have the ear and goodwill of the President of the country. Who among us would have thought this could ever be the case?
posted by Slothrup at 7:24 PM on August 16, 2017 [23 favorites]
So, um, Yowser...exactly what has you so upset in that statement? Hasn't incitement to violence long been recognized as being outside the boundaries of free speech?
posted by escape from the potato planet at 7:24 PM on August 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by escape from the potato planet at 7:24 PM on August 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
From their statement:
If white supremacists march into our towns armed to the teeth and with the intent to harm people, they are not engaging in activity protected by the United States Constitution.
which is exactly what the ACLU VA got all up in a tizzy over, the right to march armed to the teeth into town.
posted by Yowser at 7:25 PM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
If white supremacists march into our towns armed to the teeth and with the intent to harm people, they are not engaging in activity protected by the United States Constitution.
which is exactly what the ACLU VA got all up in a tizzy over, the right to march armed to the teeth into town.
posted by Yowser at 7:25 PM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yowser, I am confused. You make it sound like the ACLU just announced something horrible. Here's part of the statement: "For those who are wondering where we stand – the ACLU of California fully supports the freedom of speech and expression, as well as the freedom to peacefully assemble. We review each request for help on a case-by-case basis, but take the clear position that the First Amendment does not protect people who incite or engage in violence." So what am I missing?
posted by Bella Donna at 7:25 PM on August 16, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 7:25 PM on August 16, 2017 [22 favorites]
I think Yowser thinks its not going far enough? I have no idea. Am also confused.
posted by Justinian at 7:26 PM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 7:26 PM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
And I'm leaving this thread for awhile. Apparently I'm not communicating well. Sorry.
posted by Yowser at 7:27 PM on August 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 7:27 PM on August 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
'There's no military solution [to North Korea's nuclear threats], forget it. Until somebody solves the part of the equation that shows me that ten million people in Seoul don't die in the first 30 minutes from conventional weapons, I don't know what you're talking about, there's no military solution here, they got us."
That's a bizarrely real world assessment, so probably the thing that will actually harm him.
posted by Artw at 7:35 PM on August 16, 2017 [13 favorites]
That's a bizarrely real world assessment, so probably the thing that will actually harm him.
posted by Artw at 7:35 PM on August 16, 2017 [13 favorites]
Can we get back to this Bannon interview because my mind is fucking blown. I have previously said, and I quote, "Bannon is the only one of them that has two brain cells to rub together."
Apparently I was mistaken.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:36 PM on August 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
Apparently I was mistaken.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:36 PM on August 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
(and I mean the fact that he didn't know he was giving an interview, not that he's a terrifying shitbag)
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:37 PM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:37 PM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Um, what? This company is already doing what you want them to do, and the CEO is explicitly calling for more guidance from the government on what content should be allowed. If you're going to start nationalizing companies, why start with this one? And why stop with this one? I'd like to see an argument for nationalizing a company like Cloudflare that wouldn't apply just as well to any internet-based business, including Metafilter.Literally, I woke up in a bad mood and decided someone shouldn’t be allowed on the Internet. No one should have that power.Ok. Then let's nationalize [Cloudflare], along with ATT, Verizon and Google, and/or regulate them all as a public utilities under Title II of the Telecommunications Act.
If you look at the company's blog post on the subject (and you really should), it will be very obvious that they're calling for government to take a greater role in dealing with hate speech in a way that's accountable, transparent, and respects due process. You'll get none of those things if you put all the responsibility on the people whose job is to physically move bits around the internet. We don't want that for the same reason we don't want cops or prison guards in charge of deciding who gets locked up.
Just so we're clear, what we're talking about is censorship. I think we're all in agreement that some level of censorship is warranted with regard to things like hate speech, but let's not talk about it like it's no big deal. It is a big deal. I can't believe I even need to say this, but censorship can very easily turn into a tool of oppression. We cannot afford to normalize censorship to the extent that someone like Trump can shut down the free press just by declaring that the "fake news" media is engaging in hate speech.
As for Title II, from what I understand, it doesn't even apply to a company like Cloudflare because they're not an ISP.
I'm sickened by the use of the word "political" to refer to the genocidal opinions of Nazis.He didn't. Prince used the word "political" in reference to his own opinions.
posted by shponglespore at 7:41 PM on August 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
Either Bannon was hopped up on cocaine or he knew exactly what he was doing when he gave this interview. So why?
It takes some of the heat off of Trump. Throws more chaos grenades into the media coverage. Confuses. Obfuscates. Distracts.
posted by srboisvert at 7:41 PM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
It takes some of the heat off of Trump. Throws more chaos grenades into the media coverage. Confuses. Obfuscates. Distracts.
posted by srboisvert at 7:41 PM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
Apparently Bannon never thought that the journalist might take his (very newsworthy) comments and turn them into a story.
I am completely baffled by this, until I remember that these jokers think everything is essentially performative. Journalists are just making shit up like everyone else, right? It's surprising that they'd do a journalist the respect of talking to them 'off-stage', two blokes in on the joke, and have their words treated as some kind of information.
posted by BS Artisan at 7:42 PM on August 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
I am completely baffled by this, until I remember that these jokers think everything is essentially performative. Journalists are just making shit up like everyone else, right? It's surprising that they'd do a journalist the respect of talking to them 'off-stage', two blokes in on the joke, and have their words treated as some kind of information.
posted by BS Artisan at 7:42 PM on August 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
See, here's the thing, "off the record" is not a right. It's a choice by the reporter to extend a privilege to the subject. And the administration needs that privilege more than the journalists need access. It's how they control the message. It's how they keep infighting inside and out of the public. It's how they tell the story they want to tell, not the actual story. No one in this Administration should ever be afforded that privilege again, for any reason whatsoever, even if they demand it. Journalists need to assert themselves against this administration waging open warfare on democracy, fuck norms and archaic protocols. Kuttner did the Lord's work if he didn't explicitly ask Bannon if it was on the record. It shouldn't matter. The Trump administration should be the end of "off the record" as a thing, and if that makes life harder for future Democratic administrations, well, at least we'll look back in hindsight and appreciate the fact that we have a future Democratic administration.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:42 PM on August 16, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:42 PM on August 16, 2017 [23 favorites]
Oh, two more things I left out of my comment above. First, nationalizing big chunks of internet infrastructure is totally impossible in today's political climate. Second, even if it were possible, it wouldn't help with hate speech. If anything, it would make it harder to suppress, because a government-run service would be bound by the First Amendment.
posted by shponglespore at 7:49 PM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by shponglespore at 7:49 PM on August 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
I have previously said, and I quote, "Bannon is the only one of them that has two brain cells to rub together."
The truth is, these are not very bright guys. And things got out of hand.
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:54 PM on August 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
The truth is, these are not very bright guys. And things got out of hand.
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:54 PM on August 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
If you look at the company's blog post on the subject (and you really should), it will be very obvious that they're calling for government to take a greater role in dealing with hate speech in a way that's accountable, transparent, and respects due process. You'll get none of those things if you put all the responsibility on the people whose job is to physically move bits around the internet. We don't want that for the same reason we don't want cops or prison guards in charge of deciding who gets locked up.
Yes, I read it, and I didn't get that at all. He's calling for a conversation "for all of the [non-governmental] organizations listed" about content restrictions. He's saying they cut off the Nzais, then turning around and apologizing for it. He's complaining about being the one to make that call, as a private company printing money.
First, nationalizing big chunks of internet infrastructure is totally impossible in today's political climate. Second, even if it were possible, it wouldn't help with hate speech. If anything, it would make it harder to suppress, because a government-run service would be bound by the First Amendment.
Yes, obviously. It wasn't a serious policy suggestion, as if we can even entertain such luxuries as serious policy discussions in 2017. We're going to do well to hold on to net neutrality and the open internet itself. Maybe in Obama's 6th term we could talk seriously about what the necessities of digital life in the 21st century really are, and nationalizing the internet backbone services, and Cloudfare is a DNS provider closer to a basic ISP than a regular website like Metafilter, so they would fit in that discussion. But today, the CEO of a private company making a decision and then immediately punting on the consequences rubs me the wrong way.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:02 PM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
Yes, I read it, and I didn't get that at all. He's calling for a conversation "for all of the [non-governmental] organizations listed" about content restrictions. He's saying they cut off the Nzais, then turning around and apologizing for it. He's complaining about being the one to make that call, as a private company printing money.
First, nationalizing big chunks of internet infrastructure is totally impossible in today's political climate. Second, even if it were possible, it wouldn't help with hate speech. If anything, it would make it harder to suppress, because a government-run service would be bound by the First Amendment.
Yes, obviously. It wasn't a serious policy suggestion, as if we can even entertain such luxuries as serious policy discussions in 2017. We're going to do well to hold on to net neutrality and the open internet itself. Maybe in Obama's 6th term we could talk seriously about what the necessities of digital life in the 21st century really are, and nationalizing the internet backbone services, and Cloudfare is a DNS provider closer to a basic ISP than a regular website like Metafilter, so they would fit in that discussion. But today, the CEO of a private company making a decision and then immediately punting on the consequences rubs me the wrong way.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:02 PM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
In Devil's Bargain, Bannon comes across as very intelligent and disciplined. This phone call might have been an error, but it's likely he considered the choice carefully and had a rational basis for it.
posted by Coventry at 8:04 PM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Coventry at 8:04 PM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
If that was the result of careful consideration, then cocaine MUST have been involved...
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:18 PM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:18 PM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Also, let's not forget that rational does not equal reasonable when we're talking about Bannon, a guy who has made it clear he wants to destroy our government. Literally. On the record. Years ago. And it's only August ffs!
posted by Bella Donna at 8:20 PM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 8:20 PM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Politico, Nancy Cook and Josh Dawsey: 'He is stubborn and doesn't realize how bad this is getting’
posted by zachlipton at 8:23 PM on August 16, 2017 [42 favorites]
“In some ways, Trump would rather have people calling him racist than say he backed down the minute he was wrong,” one adviser to the White House said on Wednesday about Charlottesville. “This may turn into the biggest mess of his presidency because he is stubborn and doesn't realize how bad this is getting.”The article says he gets especially mad on Mondays because he has all weekend to consume news and talk to people on the phone before showing up to unload on people.
For Trump, anger serves as a way to manage staff, express his displeasure or simply as an outlet that soothes him. Often, aides and advisers say, he’ll get mad at a specific staffer or broader situation, unload from the Oval Office and then three hours later act as if nothing ever occurred even if others still feel rattled by it. Negative television coverage and lawyers earn particular ire from him.
White House officials and informal advisers say the triggers for his temper are if he thinks someone is lying to him, if he’s caught by surprise, if someone criticizes him, or if someone stops him from trying to do something or seeks to control him.
...
In one stark example, the president’s dislike of being told what to do played a role in his decision to abruptly ban all transgender people from the military: a move opposed by his own defense secretary, James Mattis, and the head of the Coast Guard, who vowed not to honor the president’s decree.
The president had grown tired of White House lawyers telling him what he could and could not do on the ban and numerous other issues such as labor regulations, said one informal White House adviser. While multiple factors were in play with the transgender ban, Trump has grown increasingly frustrated by the lawyers’ calls for further study and caution, so he took it upon himself to tweet out the news of the ban, partly as a reminder to the lawyers who’s in charge, the adviser said.
...
Other notable targets of the president’s frustrations have included national security adviser H.R. McMaster, former chief of staff Reince Priebus and Spicer, who was often on the receiving end of profane criticisms when Trump did not approve of something as innocuous as the chyrons on the TV news shows he watched.
posted by zachlipton at 8:23 PM on August 16, 2017 [42 favorites]
I'm going to make two assumptions. I'm going to assume Bannon wasn't high as a kite and I'm going to assume he did, in fact, understand that when a senior White House official calls up a reporter and says stuff, that reporter will write it down and publish it. Honestly, it would be easier to just say he was out of his mind, but let's assume he wasn't and is just saying he didn't think it was an interview to give himself a fig leaf of cover.
If Bannon knew what he was doing, then I think he was trying to get back to his roots. What Bannon really wants is a kind of nationalistic economic populism. He rejects multiculturalism because it stands in the way. The main purpose of the call was ostensibly to drum up support for a trade war with China. As Josh Marshall puts it:
The problem here is that, of all of Bannon's wild ideas, the only ones that seem to have actually gotten turned into policy are the really racist ones. If Bannon does, in fact, want to raise taxes for millionaires, that's been treated as a joke inside the White House, and it's even more of a joke among a Republican Congress. Bannon is seemingly the only one in the administration with the perfectly rational view that war with North Korea is absolutely not an option. If Bannon has as tenuous a relationship with the President and the rest of the White House as has been reported (and if he's lost Miller and Hahn, who does he have?), there's no reason for him to play by any normal set of rules like not giving random unauthorized interviews to progressive publications. Either he gets what he wants inside the White House or he's forced out and keeps doing exactly what he's doing now from outside. What does he have to lose?
This is a guy who does things for a purpose, but he demonstrably doesn't care how they look. Through that lens, is the interview really that surprising?
posted by zachlipton at 8:26 PM on August 16, 2017 [28 favorites]
If Bannon knew what he was doing, then I think he was trying to get back to his roots. What Bannon really wants is a kind of nationalistic economic populism. He rejects multiculturalism because it stands in the way. The main purpose of the call was ostensibly to drum up support for a trade war with China. As Josh Marshall puts it:
So I read the whole Kuttner piece. My read is Bannon doesn't care. The economic nationalism is his biggest issue. He's trying to build ...Bannon has never viewed his cause as exclusively right-wing one. So much so that Trump previously declared him to be "alt-left", an incredible bit of trolling, because he doesn't hew to Conservative orthodoxy. I think he called up The American Prospect because he wants a trade war, he saw all the Democrats at the DNC chanting "No TPP," and he thinks there's a path there to get what he wants.
2/ a right/left alliance for a trade war with China. Bob's been on this issue for decades. Look, Bannon spent something like a year ...
3/ having Josh Green be his Boswell. He told Josh everything and Josh published everything. Did he give a fuck then? Apparently not.
The problem here is that, of all of Bannon's wild ideas, the only ones that seem to have actually gotten turned into policy are the really racist ones. If Bannon does, in fact, want to raise taxes for millionaires, that's been treated as a joke inside the White House, and it's even more of a joke among a Republican Congress. Bannon is seemingly the only one in the administration with the perfectly rational view that war with North Korea is absolutely not an option. If Bannon has as tenuous a relationship with the President and the rest of the White House as has been reported (and if he's lost Miller and Hahn, who does he have?), there's no reason for him to play by any normal set of rules like not giving random unauthorized interviews to progressive publications. Either he gets what he wants inside the White House or he's forced out and keeps doing exactly what he's doing now from outside. What does he have to lose?
This is a guy who does things for a purpose, but he demonstrably doesn't care how they look. Through that lens, is the interview really that surprising?
posted by zachlipton at 8:26 PM on August 16, 2017 [28 favorites]
If that was the result of careful consideration, then cocaine MUST have been involved...
Bannon's Razor: Postulate not stupidity where cocaine will suffice.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:46 PM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
Bannon's Razor: Postulate not stupidity where cocaine will suffice.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:46 PM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
Daily Caller says (link is to tweet on purpose) that Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, Charles Johnson, and Julian Assange had a meeting today at the Ecuadorian embassy in London, apparently to discuss if there could be a deal with the White House that brought Assange back to the US.
In his capacity as Russia's favorite agent of influence in Congress, Rep. Rohrabacher claimed Assange “emphatically stated that the Russians were not involved in the hacking or disclosure of those emails” and said he “plans to divulge more of what he found directly to President Trump.” Disinformation incoming!
Coincidentally, The NYer has just published a lengthy investigation into/profile of Julian Assange that provides more evidence of Wikileaks's Russian intelligence ties, even if it presents a lot of Assange's exculpatory claims at face value.
posted by Doktor Zed at 8:47 PM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
In his capacity as Russia's favorite agent of influence in Congress, Rep. Rohrabacher claimed Assange “emphatically stated that the Russians were not involved in the hacking or disclosure of those emails” and said he “plans to divulge more of what he found directly to President Trump.” Disinformation incoming!
Coincidentally, The NYer has just published a lengthy investigation into/profile of Julian Assange that provides more evidence of Wikileaks's Russian intelligence ties, even if it presents a lot of Assange's exculpatory claims at face value.
posted by Doktor Zed at 8:47 PM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
In one stark example, the president’s dislike of being told what to do played a role in his decision to abruptly ban all transgender people from the military.
Oh, Mr. Trump, if you think the federal courts slapped you around on the Muslim ban, they are gonna beat you like a rented mule on this one. Not that it's a surprise, but published accounts indicating that he totally capriciously violated the civil rights of millions of people solely as part of a tantrum, with no rationale and, in fact, overtly refusing to wait for data/analysis?
RealGeniusPopcornHouse.gif
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:52 PM on August 16, 2017 [16 favorites]
Oh, Mr. Trump, if you think the federal courts slapped you around on the Muslim ban, they are gonna beat you like a rented mule on this one. Not that it's a surprise, but published accounts indicating that he totally capriciously violated the civil rights of millions of people solely as part of a tantrum, with no rationale and, in fact, overtly refusing to wait for data/analysis?
RealGeniusPopcornHouse.gif
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:52 PM on August 16, 2017 [16 favorites]
Bannon's Razor: Postulate not stupidity where cocaine will suffice.
That's Bannon's Mirror and Razor Blade
posted by ctmf at 9:04 PM on August 16, 2017 [45 favorites]
That's Bannon's Mirror and Razor Blade
posted by ctmf at 9:04 PM on August 16, 2017 [45 favorites]
lol what happened to all the great CEO replacements he can get? itsamystery.gif
I kinda wish he would still try so we could see his lame new council of like a regional hardware store manager, a bait shop owner and some rando MLM scammer.
That's it! He can fill all those vacant appointments by turning the administration into a MLM scheme! The pay is low but you get a bonus for everyone new you sign up! (Also, you have to buy all your own equipment and pay for training materials like, every other week)
posted by ctmf at 9:07 PM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
I kinda wish he would still try so we could see his lame new council of like a regional hardware store manager, a bait shop owner and some rando MLM scammer.
That's it! He can fill all those vacant appointments by turning the administration into a MLM scheme! The pay is low but you get a bonus for everyone new you sign up! (Also, you have to buy all your own equipment and pay for training materials like, every other week)
posted by ctmf at 9:07 PM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
> Bannon, a guy who has made it clear he wants to destroy our government.I think what Bannon said was "to deconstruct", rather than to destroy, because for him mere destruction is not enough.
To destroy a house is to demolish a structure. To deconstruct the concept of "house" is to make it impossible for this thing to be conceived ever again, at least not as we know it.
posted by runcifex at 9:09 PM on August 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
a regional hardware store manager, a bait shop owner and some rando MLM scammer.
Add an avocado farmer and you have one of the better nights of the 2016 Republican National Convention.
posted by peeedro at 9:10 PM on August 16, 2017 [18 favorites]
Add an avocado farmer and you have one of the better nights of the 2016 Republican National Convention.
posted by peeedro at 9:10 PM on August 16, 2017 [18 favorites]
Plus Chachi. Has anyone asked him for a comment lately?
posted by ctmf at 9:11 PM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by ctmf at 9:11 PM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
My rationale for making this decision was simple: the people behind the Daily Stormer are assholes and I’d had enough.
In the version that I'm seeing now, it reads
The tipping point for us making this decision was that the team behind Daily Stormer made the claim that we were secretly supporters of their ideology.
Apparently weev was bragging about getting inside help/cover from CloudFlare employees and that pissed the CEO off.
In the version that I'm seeing now, it reads
The tipping point for us making this decision was that the team behind Daily Stormer made the claim that we were secretly supporters of their ideology.
Apparently weev was bragging about getting inside help/cover from CloudFlare employees and that pissed the CEO off.
In a post, the site’s architect, Andrew Auernheimer, said he had personal relationships with people at Cloudflare, and they had assured him the company would work to protect the site in a variety of ways — including by not turning over data to European courts. Cloudflare has data centers in European countries such as Germany, which have strict hate speech and privacy laws.posted by a snickering nuthatch at 9:14 PM on August 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
Some real contortionism there from Pence. Obviously this is a moral failure and means he's a Nazi by default, but I'm not surprised that this is the best he can do.
He's probably just trying to save his energy for his real passion - crushing the freedoms and rights of women and LGBT people, forever.
posted by triggerfinger at 9:17 PM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
He's probably just trying to save his energy for his real passion - crushing the freedoms and rights of women and LGBT people, forever.
posted by triggerfinger at 9:17 PM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
Literally, I woke up in a bad mood and decided someone shouldn’t be allowed on the Internet. No one should have that power.
Ok. Then let's nationalize your company, along with ATT, Verizon and Google, and/or regulate them all as a public utilities under Title II of the Telecommunications Act.
Maybe we should not do anything like this until we have rational adults in control of our government again? Like I get this is a good idea in principle but at least this week I really do have more faith in corporate CEOs than I have in the current elected government.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:19 PM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
Ok. Then let's nationalize your company, along with ATT, Verizon and Google, and/or regulate them all as a public utilities under Title II of the Telecommunications Act.
Maybe we should not do anything like this until we have rational adults in control of our government again? Like I get this is a good idea in principle but at least this week I really do have more faith in corporate CEOs than I have in the current elected government.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:19 PM on August 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
Bannon's Razor: Postulate not stupidity where cocaine will suffice.
That's Bannon's Mirror and Razor Blade
Bannon and Trump are both the sort of guy who bought high end paraphernalia from those cocaine ads in the seventies
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:21 PM on August 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
That's Bannon's Mirror and Razor Blade
Bannon and Trump are both the sort of guy who bought high end paraphernalia from those cocaine ads in the seventies
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:21 PM on August 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
I'm just thinking WAY, WAY, BACK to when Moochie was the noxious garbage fire of the day.
That was a whole North Korean Missile Crisis and Nazi Uprising ago. Seems like a dim memory, now.
posted by darkstar at 9:22 PM on August 16, 2017 [31 favorites]
That was a whole North Korean Missile Crisis and Nazi Uprising ago. Seems like a dim memory, now.
posted by darkstar at 9:22 PM on August 16, 2017 [31 favorites]
It's bizarre how we can switch from missile crisis to Nazis in less than 24 hours.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:27 PM on August 16, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:27 PM on August 16, 2017 [22 favorites]
I really do have more faith in corporate CEOs than I have in the current elected government.
Good ol' 2017, when I occasionally think "Whew, thank god the capitalists and generals are riding herd on things" [headtilt].
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:28 PM on August 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
Good ol' 2017, when I occasionally think "Whew, thank god the capitalists and generals are riding herd on things" [headtilt].
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:28 PM on August 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
schmod: "After a reporter hinted that the property was a winery, he jumped on that single fact, despite being unable to provide a single meaningful detail that indicated he had any recollection whatsoever of the property, or the nature of its operation as a winery. All he had were a series of hollow, inaccurate, and inappropriate boasts."
And it turns out that he doesn't actually own the Winery, Eric does. Unless Eric only owns it in a nudge-nudge wink-wink manner.
ricochet biscuit: "The building it was on takes up a full city block. In what might or might not have been a sly bit of trolling, the plaque was not at the front entrance on Saint-Catherine, nor at the rear doors on Maisonneuve, nor even on Aylmer but on the west side, on Union."
Probably just situated at the actually street location of the former residence.
Justinian: "I think the press coverage of the 2016 campaign will go down in history as a worse performance than their cheerleading leading up to the invasion of Iraq. And that killed hundreds of thousands of people."
There is still time.
posted by Mitheral at 9:28 PM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
And it turns out that he doesn't actually own the Winery, Eric does. Unless Eric only owns it in a nudge-nudge wink-wink manner.
ricochet biscuit: "The building it was on takes up a full city block. In what might or might not have been a sly bit of trolling, the plaque was not at the front entrance on Saint-Catherine, nor at the rear doors on Maisonneuve, nor even on Aylmer but on the west side, on Union."
Probably just situated at the actually street location of the former residence.
Justinian: "I think the press coverage of the 2016 campaign will go down in history as a worse performance than their cheerleading leading up to the invasion of Iraq. And that killed hundreds of thousands of people."
There is still time.
posted by Mitheral at 9:28 PM on August 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
He absolutely considers his kids his property and is probably more or less right.
posted by Artw at 9:36 PM on August 16, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:36 PM on August 16, 2017 [17 favorites]
Bannon to the NYT:
There's also a certain brilliance to these "oh that wasn't really an interview" interviews. It lets staffers say how they really feel on the record, but when Trump calls them on the carpet for it, they can just blame the lying fake news media and say it wasn't supposed to be on the record. If they get Trump mad enough at the press instead of at them, there are no consequences. I feel like it almost worked for Scaramucci until Kelly had to come in and ruin it for him.
posted by zachlipton at 9:38 PM on August 16, 2017 [21 favorites]
Stephen K. Bannon, the president’s chief strategist, said in an interview that if Democrats want to fight over Confederate monuments and attack Mr. Trump as a bigot, that was a fight the president would win.If he's going down, I think he's decided he's doing it with fireworks.
“President Trump, by asking, ‘Where does this all end’ — Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln — connects with the American people about their history, culture and traditions,” he said.
“The race-identity politics of the left wants to say it’s all racist,” Mr. Bannon added. “Just give me more. Tear down more statues. Say the revolution is coming. I can’t get enough of it.”
There's also a certain brilliance to these "oh that wasn't really an interview" interviews. It lets staffers say how they really feel on the record, but when Trump calls them on the carpet for it, they can just blame the lying fake news media and say it wasn't supposed to be on the record. If they get Trump mad enough at the press instead of at them, there are no consequences. I feel like it almost worked for Scaramucci until Kelly had to come in and ruin it for him.
posted by zachlipton at 9:38 PM on August 16, 2017 [21 favorites]
So, like others, I've been just assuming that when Trump seems to be especially unstable and lashing out, it's because something else has happened behind the scenes that has spooked him. The tweet upthread about CEO Trump being subpoenaed two days ago seems to confirm this. And since Mueller is getting closer and closer as each day goes by, that means that things are only going to get worse before they get better, if this theory is true. The getting worse part is obviously terrifying enough but my genuine uncertainty around the getting better part (after Trump is gone) is what really keeps me up at night.
posted by triggerfinger at 9:38 PM on August 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by triggerfinger at 9:38 PM on August 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
Charlottesville winery Trump boasted about owning claims no affiliation
"We have no connection to Trump, we just really liked the name! Sure he bought the winery in 2011 and named it after himself, but that's just a coincidence and we definitely haven't been trading on his name or anything. Also our GM spoke at last year's Republican Convention, but that's also just a weird coincidence, we don't know the guy" says Trump Winery spokesman.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 9:44 PM on August 16, 2017 [24 favorites]
"We have no connection to Trump, we just really liked the name! Sure he bought the winery in 2011 and named it after himself, but that's just a coincidence and we definitely haven't been trading on his name or anything. Also our GM spoke at last year's Republican Convention, but that's also just a weird coincidence, we don't know the guy" says Trump Winery spokesman.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 9:44 PM on August 16, 2017 [24 favorites]
triggerfinger: "So, like others, I've been just assuming that when Trump seems to be especially unstable and lashing out, it's because something else has happened behind the scenes that has spooked him. The tweet upthread about CEO Trump being subpoenaed two days ago seems to confirm this."
I've said it before but I wouldn't read too much into the timing of events that are effecting the Cheeto and his decisions on unrelated matters. He'd constantly squeezing an entire presidencies worth of controversy, scandal and illegal activity into a single week. His administration is such a shit show and there are so many skeletons being investigated and dragged out of assorted closets that one will always be able to link a bad thing for the Cheeto occurring within a day or two of any lash out. If only from the team Mueller has assembled.
posted by Mitheral at 9:52 PM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
I've said it before but I wouldn't read too much into the timing of events that are effecting the Cheeto and his decisions on unrelated matters. He'd constantly squeezing an entire presidencies worth of controversy, scandal and illegal activity into a single week. His administration is such a shit show and there are so many skeletons being investigated and dragged out of assorted closets that one will always be able to link a bad thing for the Cheeto occurring within a day or two of any lash out. If only from the team Mueller has assembled.
posted by Mitheral at 9:52 PM on August 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
The article says he gets especially mad on Mondays
Great, we've elected Garfield the cat as President. Someone get him a lasagna and distract him.
posted by mmoncur at 10:05 PM on August 16, 2017 [21 favorites]
Great, we've elected Garfield the cat as President. Someone get him a lasagna and distract him.
posted by mmoncur at 10:05 PM on August 16, 2017 [21 favorites]
A short video of the singing of This Little Light of Mine at the candlelight vigil at Charlottesville tonight mentioned upthread. Other songs included This Land Is Your Land and We Shall Overcome.
And for good measure, an unrelated version of This Land Is Your Land with some additional verses and context.
posted by Candleman at 10:06 PM on August 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
And for good measure, an unrelated version of This Land Is Your Land with some additional verses and context.
posted by Candleman at 10:06 PM on August 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
11. Trump *only* sees dominance/submission, and he must dominate, so in a situation like this he can't *help* himself from defending ...
12. ..."his people," in terms that even a moderately self-aware white supremacist would know better than to use in a nat'l press conference!
Even the idea that what he said is "defending his people" goes too far down the path of analysis, it seems to me.
Watch his delivery. When he says "We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence" he's reading from the podium. It could not be clearer that those are words somebody else wrote for him. They are not his words. He's been told that these are words that Being Presidential requires him to say. But they're not his words, so they're not the Best Words. Trump is the President! So who could be better than him at Being Presidential? Ridiculous!
There's clearly supposed to be a full stop after "violence" in the written statement, which does indeed have a certain Presidential cadence and flow (it's this, in fact, which makes it perfectly clear that Trump had nothing to do with crafting it).
Trump cannot wait to lift his eyes from the uncomfortable task of reading somebody else's words and launch into his own, so he turns the written statement into a run-on sentence with "on many sides".
Now he is using his own Best Words. You can tell, because his face flips from expressing grudging compliance to Pious Preacher, and he begins gesturing and repeating himself. He's flipped the switch to vaudeville, and it's I Know Better Than You Fucking Idiot Staffers How To Sound Presidential from that instant forward.
"Not Donald Trump, not Barack Obama". See how Presidential he thinks that is? Not only has he magnanimously deigned to utter the name of his most hated rival for public affection without actually excoriating him, but he's said that awful name right after his own! Obama should feel honored by that, and so should all his supporters!
And on and on the blather train rolls, in characteristic Trump style. When he returns to the prepared statement, he'll read a bit more and then use that as a launching pad for another rally-style riff.
I don't think he said what he said because he thought he had to defend "his people", a motivation suggestive of loyalty and even a whiff of altruism. I think he said it - all of it - for no better reason than a consuming urge to show that he has the Best Words.
All the rest has just been the standard pattern of doubling down when criticized.
posted by flabdablet at 10:27 PM on August 16, 2017 [57 favorites]
12. ..."his people," in terms that even a moderately self-aware white supremacist would know better than to use in a nat'l press conference!
Even the idea that what he said is "defending his people" goes too far down the path of analysis, it seems to me.
Watch his delivery. When he says "We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence" he's reading from the podium. It could not be clearer that those are words somebody else wrote for him. They are not his words. He's been told that these are words that Being Presidential requires him to say. But they're not his words, so they're not the Best Words. Trump is the President! So who could be better than him at Being Presidential? Ridiculous!
There's clearly supposed to be a full stop after "violence" in the written statement, which does indeed have a certain Presidential cadence and flow (it's this, in fact, which makes it perfectly clear that Trump had nothing to do with crafting it).
Trump cannot wait to lift his eyes from the uncomfortable task of reading somebody else's words and launch into his own, so he turns the written statement into a run-on sentence with "on many sides".
Now he is using his own Best Words. You can tell, because his face flips from expressing grudging compliance to Pious Preacher, and he begins gesturing and repeating himself. He's flipped the switch to vaudeville, and it's I Know Better Than You Fucking Idiot Staffers How To Sound Presidential from that instant forward.
"Not Donald Trump, not Barack Obama". See how Presidential he thinks that is? Not only has he magnanimously deigned to utter the name of his most hated rival for public affection without actually excoriating him, but he's said that awful name right after his own! Obama should feel honored by that, and so should all his supporters!
And on and on the blather train rolls, in characteristic Trump style. When he returns to the prepared statement, he'll read a bit more and then use that as a launching pad for another rally-style riff.
I don't think he said what he said because he thought he had to defend "his people", a motivation suggestive of loyalty and even a whiff of altruism. I think he said it - all of it - for no better reason than a consuming urge to show that he has the Best Words.
All the rest has just been the standard pattern of doubling down when criticized.
posted by flabdablet at 10:27 PM on August 16, 2017 [57 favorites]
I really do have more faith in corporate CEOs than I have in the current elected government.
Good ol' 2017, when I occasionally think "Whew, thank god the capitalists and generals are riding herd on things" [headtilt].
At the risk of self-promotion, the ultimate bad guys of my sci-fi novels are the corporate CEOs with unchecked power.
Joke's on me, I guess. Thanks, 2017.
I mean there are the ruthless politicians and the space pirates, too, but I'm really hoping we can get through 2017 without literal space pirates. Not putting any money on it at this point, though.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:46 PM on August 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
Good ol' 2017, when I occasionally think "Whew, thank god the capitalists and generals are riding herd on things" [headtilt].
At the risk of self-promotion, the ultimate bad guys of my sci-fi novels are the corporate CEOs with unchecked power.
Joke's on me, I guess. Thanks, 2017.
I mean there are the ruthless politicians and the space pirates, too, but I'm really hoping we can get through 2017 without literal space pirates. Not putting any money on it at this point, though.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:46 PM on August 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
The article says he gets especially mad on Mondays
(Tell me why) I don't like Mondays
(Tell me why) I don't like Mondays
(Tell me why) I don't like Mondays
I wanna shoot
The fake news down
posted by kirkaracha at 10:55 PM on August 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
At the risk of self-promotion, the ultimate bad guys of my sci-fi novels are the corporate CEOs with unchecked power.
Joke's on me, I guess. Thanks, 2017.
Which reinds me of why your typical cyberpunk evil corporation has always bugged me. Thinking about it, even megacorporations in a regulation-free environment can have checks on them- though not as much as a well-run government. A politician who has no electoral checks, who doesn't need to worry about public opinion, can be a lot more extreme and dangerous.
I mean there are the ruthless politicians and the space pirates, too, but I'm really hoping we can get through 2017 without literal space pirates. Not putting any money on it at this point, though.
There's always Elon Musk. He has a white Persian cat...
posted by happyroach at 11:21 PM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
Joke's on me, I guess. Thanks, 2017.
Which reinds me of why your typical cyberpunk evil corporation has always bugged me. Thinking about it, even megacorporations in a regulation-free environment can have checks on them- though not as much as a well-run government. A politician who has no electoral checks, who doesn't need to worry about public opinion, can be a lot more extreme and dangerous.
I mean there are the ruthless politicians and the space pirates, too, but I'm really hoping we can get through 2017 without literal space pirates. Not putting any money on it at this point, though.
There's always Elon Musk. He has a white Persian cat...
posted by happyroach at 11:21 PM on August 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
“To me,” Bannon said, “the economic war with China is everything. And we have to be maniacally focused on that. If we continue to lose it, we're five years away, I think, ten years at the most, of hitting an inflection point from which we'll never be able to recover.”
Then why FFS did you abandon the TPP, an agreement designed from the ground up to exclude China and increase trade and strengthen our ties with it's neighbours?
Milo Yiannopoulos gives his talks for free. ... Who's funding him?
The Mercers bankroll him.
posted by PenDevil at 11:43 PM on August 16, 2017 [22 favorites]
Then why FFS did you abandon the TPP, an agreement designed from the ground up to exclude China and increase trade and strengthen our ties with it's neighbours?
Milo Yiannopoulos gives his talks for free. ... Who's funding him?
The Mercers bankroll him.
posted by PenDevil at 11:43 PM on August 16, 2017 [22 favorites]
A short video of the singing of This Little Light of Mine at the candlelight vigil at Charlottesville tonight mentioned upthread. Other songs included This Land Is Your Land and We Shall Overcome.
Thank you, that's great. There's a huge difference between a candlelight vigil and a torch-bearing mob.
And for good measure, an unrelated version of This Land Is Your Land with some additional verses and context.
Thank you again, I don't know John McCutcheon but I learned This Land is Your Land from one of those Subversive Elementary School Teachers who played the autoharp and this took me back decades.
One of the verses he sings from the original 1940 lyrics;
Was a great high wall there
trying to stop me
and a great big sign that
said Private Property
and on the other side
it didn't say nothing
That side was made for you and me.
I didn't remember that verse from elementary school (The radical verses are not often performed in schools or official functions) but it was familiar to me because Pete Seeger sang it at president Obama's inauguration.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 11:45 PM on August 16, 2017 [16 favorites]
Thank you, that's great. There's a huge difference between a candlelight vigil and a torch-bearing mob.
And for good measure, an unrelated version of This Land Is Your Land with some additional verses and context.
Thank you again, I don't know John McCutcheon but I learned This Land is Your Land from one of those Subversive Elementary School Teachers who played the autoharp and this took me back decades.
One of the verses he sings from the original 1940 lyrics;
Was a great high wall there
trying to stop me
and a great big sign that
said Private Property
and on the other side
it didn't say nothing
That side was made for you and me.
I didn't remember that verse from elementary school (The radical verses are not often performed in schools or official functions) but it was familiar to me because Pete Seeger sang it at president Obama's inauguration.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 11:45 PM on August 16, 2017 [16 favorites]
In which a Presidential communications director (!) is fired less than two weeks into the job for grossly characterizing another advisor publicly, and then the outlandishly-insulted party's next public move is the equivalent of saying:
"Trying to suck my own cock?!? HOLD MY BEER!!!"
posted by riverlife at 12:01 AM on August 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
"Trying to suck my own cock?!? HOLD MY BEER!!!"
posted by riverlife at 12:01 AM on August 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
Hamed Aleaziz documents the final day in America for Oakland oncology nurse Maria Mendoza-Sanchez, her husband Eusebio, and 12-year old son Jesus as they left for Mexico under a deportation order from ICE, leaving their three daughters, 23, 21, and 16 behind, despite the last minute efforts of immigration lawyers, local protests, leadership at her hospital, and Sen. Feinstein. The family has lived in the US for decades, own their Oakland home, and have raised their kids. They also have no criminal records and were previously granted delays from deportation. They boarded a flight to Mexico late tonight.
As the Washington Post writes:
posted by zachlipton at 12:29 AM on August 17, 2017 [66 favorites]
As the Washington Post writes:
Since January, The Post reported, more than 105,000 immigrants have been deported, 42 percent of whom had no criminal record. During the same period last year, the number was even greater — 121,000 — and the percentage with no criminal history was the same. But many more of those deportees in the Obama administration’s waning years were apprehended at or near the border, then swiftly removed. Now, with border crossings down, the Trump administration makes no such distinctions. Whether an immigrant entered the country last week, last decade or 20 years ago makes little difference.And yet millions of Trump voters still believe he meant it when he said he was getting rid of the "bad hombres."
posted by zachlipton at 12:29 AM on August 17, 2017 [66 favorites]
Having Steve Bannon opine about the lack of military options w/r/t NK is like the cat lady from The Simpsons stopping mid-cat-throw to explain the principles of physics
posted by angrycat at 12:31 AM on August 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 12:31 AM on August 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
Still knows more than Trump in that at least Bannon can probably locate North Korea on a map.
posted by Justinian at 1:01 AM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 1:01 AM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
yeah that's the thing he's really fucking reasonable on the issue of military involvement. it's sort of like the first SNL appearance was this skull thing that came in with dramatic scary music and his line is, "sorry I'm late."
posted by angrycat at 1:12 AM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by angrycat at 1:12 AM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
So the Lenin statue protest was ... pretty underwhelming. (Photo: GeekWire)
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 1:38 AM on August 17, 2017
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 1:38 AM on August 17, 2017
That Grab Your Wallet sheet is great but does anyone know if there is a master list of all the companies on the various White House councils (similar to the ones that were disbanded yesterday), or could they be added to this list somehow? Would quite like to apply pressure for those to fall apart as well.
posted by like_neon at 2:23 AM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by like_neon at 2:23 AM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Folks, I've descended to taunting my odious Republican rep via fax. I offered friendly advice to either call for impeachment or start looking for work somewhere they don't mind hiring Nazi sympathizers. My only regret is that I failed to use the term "collaborators" instead. There's no point anymore in pretending I'm trying to sway his opinion; from now on it will be constant messages from an increasingly dissatisfied employer.
posted by salix at 2:40 AM on August 17, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by salix at 2:40 AM on August 17, 2017 [11 favorites]
Just your regular reminder that any method you use for contacting your representatives is good, but phone calls are reportedly most effective of all. To wit:
"[P]hone calls have to be dealt with when they occur and they can’t be ignored. A large volume of phone calls can be overwhelming for office staffers, but that means that their bosses hear about it.
Which office you target also matters. Members of Congress have offices in DC, but they also have offices in their home district that they represent. Target your letters and phone calls to your local office and you’ll have an easier time getting their attention. And while it should go without saying, only contact your representatives. While there may sometimes be a reason to reach out to certain people who don’t represent you (especially if they’re in a leadership position), it will always be most effective to talk to the person that represents your district."
via this Twitter thread.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 2:47 AM on August 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
"[P]hone calls have to be dealt with when they occur and they can’t be ignored. A large volume of phone calls can be overwhelming for office staffers, but that means that their bosses hear about it.
Which office you target also matters. Members of Congress have offices in DC, but they also have offices in their home district that they represent. Target your letters and phone calls to your local office and you’ll have an easier time getting their attention. And while it should go without saying, only contact your representatives. While there may sometimes be a reason to reach out to certain people who don’t represent you (especially if they’re in a leadership position), it will always be most effective to talk to the person that represents your district."
via this Twitter thread.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 2:47 AM on August 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
One thing about Bannon that always strikes me is his strange vocabulary. Words like 'hegemon' and phrases like 'inflection point' and 'ethno-nationalism' seem so pointed and odd. I'm not anti-intellectual, and I love discovering new words and phrases, but it's as if Bannon is always desperately trying to show everyone he's some kind of deep thinker instead of what he really is - a vile racist millionaire.
posted by Myeral at 3:07 AM on August 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Myeral at 3:07 AM on August 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
Guys, remember that even if Bannon is a bit smarter than the rest of the WH staff, he is still a dumb person pretending to be a smart person. How do I know? Because he imagines it would be a good idea to deconstruct government. And yeah, as pointed out above re. China: Then why FFS did you abandon the TPP, an agreement designed from the ground up to exclude China and increase trade and strengthen our ties with it's neighbours? That weird vocabulary is part of the pretense.
In short, if he did something stupid, it was because he is stupid.
When I'm not scared or depressed, I marvel at how incredibly bad this administration is at everything. Who would have know governing the USA is so difficult? Then I think of the road ahead and I go back to scared and depressed.
posted by mumimor at 3:12 AM on August 17, 2017 [10 favorites]
In short, if he did something stupid, it was because he is stupid.
When I'm not scared or depressed, I marvel at how incredibly bad this administration is at everything. Who would have know governing the USA is so difficult? Then I think of the road ahead and I go back to scared and depressed.
posted by mumimor at 3:12 AM on August 17, 2017 [10 favorites]
One thing about Bannon that always strikes me is his strange vocabulary. Words like 'hegemon' and phrases like 'inflection point' and 'ethno-nationalism' seem so pointed and odd.
I wonder if he's a fan of Orson Scott Card.
posted by like_neon at 3:37 AM on August 17, 2017 [42 favorites]
I wonder if he's a fan of Orson Scott Card.
posted by like_neon at 3:37 AM on August 17, 2017 [42 favorites]
If Bannon knew what he was doing, then I think he was trying to get back to his roots. What Bannon really wants is a kind of nationalistic economic populism. He rejects multiculturalism because it stands in the way.
Who knows if this is a post hoc or post coke rationalization, but...
@yashar (New York mag)
If you're Steve Bannon do you want to resign or get fired by the establishment/globalists? I think we know the answer...
@EliStokols (WSJ) Retweeted Yashar Ali
A Bannon ally just called to say this was the play: draw a line on economic nationalism and see what happens...
posted by chris24 at 4:13 AM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Who knows if this is a post hoc or post coke rationalization, but...
@yashar (New York mag)
If you're Steve Bannon do you want to resign or get fired by the establishment/globalists? I think we know the answer...
@EliStokols (WSJ) Retweeted Yashar Ali
A Bannon ally just called to say this was the play: draw a line on economic nationalism and see what happens...
posted by chris24 at 4:13 AM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
If you're Steve Bannon, you're usually just killing time before opening the next bottle. In those few minutes you'll say anything, cuz hey, you're not drinking yet.
posted by rc3spencer at 4:32 AM on August 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by rc3spencer at 4:32 AM on August 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
Thinking about it, even megacorporations in a regulation-free environment can have checks on them- though not as much as a well-run government.
They can have checks, but megalomania grows easily at the top of a large corporation. Going through my mental files of actual examples in tech (the area I know best), I can think of five times the heads of big companies doing things a Bond villain would do, and not all have been called to account on them.
posted by Devonian at 4:35 AM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
They can have checks, but megalomania grows easily at the top of a large corporation. Going through my mental files of actual examples in tech (the area I know best), I can think of five times the heads of big companies doing things a Bond villain would do, and not all have been called to account on them.
posted by Devonian at 4:35 AM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
I marvel at how incredibly bad this administration is at everything.
TRUMP: Why are you going so slow? And quit hugging the curb.
DRIVER: Enough with the backseat driving. Be grateful I even let you come with us.
TRUMP: It's the chauffeur's day off. Hey, you should have taken a left back there!
DRIVER: Dammit! You wanna drive?!
TRUMP: Nah, I love being driven around by a snail who can't read a map. Sad!
DRIVER: That's it! (pulls car over, gets out) OK, asshole, here ya go.
EVERYONE ELSE: DON'T LET HIM DRIVE!
TRUMP: I alone can drive us to the game, believe me. Everybody says there's nobody who cares more about good driving than me. I won the very famous Indy 500 three years in a row, which you'd know if the fake news did their jobs.
(Trump and the driver switch places. Trump slams on the gas, throwing everyone forward.)
PASSENGER: Whoa, slow down! And open your eyes for fuck's sake!
TRUMP: (Giggling) Me big boy... drive Daddy's car...
OTHERS: WHAT ARE YOU DOING??? Get on the right side of the road! SLOW DOWN!
TRUMP: So it's okay for Hillary to drive on the left, just because she's in England sometimes? So unfair—
EVERYONE: STOP TWEETING AND HIT THE BRAAAAAAAAAAAAKES....
(Car goes over a cliff, crashes in the canyon, and explodes)
posted by Rykey at 4:35 AM on August 17, 2017 [12 favorites]
TRUMP: Why are you going so slow? And quit hugging the curb.
DRIVER: Enough with the backseat driving. Be grateful I even let you come with us.
TRUMP: It's the chauffeur's day off. Hey, you should have taken a left back there!
DRIVER: Dammit! You wanna drive?!
TRUMP: Nah, I love being driven around by a snail who can't read a map. Sad!
DRIVER: That's it! (pulls car over, gets out) OK, asshole, here ya go.
EVERYONE ELSE: DON'T LET HIM DRIVE!
TRUMP: I alone can drive us to the game, believe me. Everybody says there's nobody who cares more about good driving than me. I won the very famous Indy 500 three years in a row, which you'd know if the fake news did their jobs.
(Trump and the driver switch places. Trump slams on the gas, throwing everyone forward.)
PASSENGER: Whoa, slow down! And open your eyes for fuck's sake!
TRUMP: (Giggling) Me big boy... drive Daddy's car...
OTHERS: WHAT ARE YOU DOING??? Get on the right side of the road! SLOW DOWN!
TRUMP: So it's okay for Hillary to drive on the left, just because she's in England sometimes? So unfair—
EVERYONE: STOP TWEETING AND HIT THE BRAAAAAAAAAAAAKES....
(Car goes over a cliff, crashes in the canyon, and explodes)
posted by Rykey at 4:35 AM on August 17, 2017 [12 favorites]
And our Dear Leader was upst 6:30 so he could get a jump on the day by tweeting out condemnations of Jeff Flake & Lindsey Graham, with a side order of Fake News. Can't bring himself to condemn Nazis but Republican Senators sure have become his whipping boy.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:41 AM on August 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:41 AM on August 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
The Trump administration is poised to issue a rule unwinding an Obama -era requirement that employee health benefits include contraception, which will spark a fresh round of litigation over an issue that has been before courts for six years.
One phenomenon I have noticed but not figured out a name for is that every time Trump is under fire for the right for some insanely horrible thing he's done, he throws the conservative religious right what he thinks of as a bone. We saw it before with the transgender ban, and this seems like more of the same - it's a wish-list item of a lot of evangelicals.
But I - god, how do I still have optimism - don't think he can distract from fucking Nazis fighting in the streets even with stuff like that. But then again, I didn't even see this timeline coming, so what do I know.
posted by corb at 4:53 AM on August 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
One phenomenon I have noticed but not figured out a name for is that every time Trump is under fire for the right for some insanely horrible thing he's done, he throws the conservative religious right what he thinks of as a bone. We saw it before with the transgender ban, and this seems like more of the same - it's a wish-list item of a lot of evangelicals.
But I - god, how do I still have optimism - don't think he can distract from fucking Nazis fighting in the streets even with stuff like that. But then again, I didn't even see this timeline coming, so what do I know.
posted by corb at 4:53 AM on August 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
The Trump administration is poised to issue a rule unwinding an Obama -era requirement that employee health benefits include contraception, which will spark a fresh round of litigation over an issue that has been before courts for six years.
<sarcasm>Don't worry, Ivanka is pro-women and will talk some sense into him</sarcasm>
posted by PenDevil at 4:56 AM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
<sarcasm>Don't worry, Ivanka is pro-women and will talk some sense into him</sarcasm>
posted by PenDevil at 4:56 AM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
And our Dear Leader was upst 6:30 so he could get a jump on the day by tweeting out condemnations of Jeff Flake & Lindsey Graham, with a side order of Fake News. Can't bring himself to condemn Nazis but Republican Senators sure have become his whipping boy.
@realDonaldTrump
Great to see that Dr. Kelli Ward is running against Flake Jeff Flake, who is WEAK on borders, crime and a non-factor in Senate. He's toxic!
---
Sitting conservative Republican Senator? Toxic. Nazis? Very fine people.
Oh, and 'toxic', wonder where that came from...
@ddale8 Retweeted Donald J. Trump
Fourteen months ago, Flake called Trump's statements "toxic to the party." So...
---
Ah, the old Rubber - Glue strategem. I'm not toxic, *you're* toxic.
Third graders are more mature.
posted by chris24 at 5:08 AM on August 17, 2017 [12 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump
Great to see that Dr. Kelli Ward is running against Flake Jeff Flake, who is WEAK on borders, crime and a non-factor in Senate. He's toxic!
---
Sitting conservative Republican Senator? Toxic. Nazis? Very fine people.
Oh, and 'toxic', wonder where that came from...
@ddale8 Retweeted Donald J. Trump
Fourteen months ago, Flake called Trump's statements "toxic to the party." So...
---
Ah, the old Rubber - Glue strategem. I'm not toxic, *you're* toxic.
Third graders are more mature.
posted by chris24 at 5:08 AM on August 17, 2017 [12 favorites]
The Economist's latest cover not pulling punches either.
posted by PenDevil at 5:18 AM on August 17, 2017 [50 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 5:18 AM on August 17, 2017 [50 favorites]
The Economist's latest cover not pulling punches either.
TIME is not either.
posted by chris24 at 5:27 AM on August 17, 2017 [21 favorites]
TIME is not either.
posted by chris24 at 5:27 AM on August 17, 2017 [21 favorites]
Dammmnnnn!
posted by OmieWise at 5:29 AM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by OmieWise at 5:29 AM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Can't bring himself to condemn Nazis but Republican Senators sure have become his whipping boy.
This might be fun to bring up for those of you calling R legislators.
posted by ryanrs at 5:33 AM on August 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
This might be fun to bring up for those of you calling R legislators.
posted by ryanrs at 5:33 AM on August 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
BTW, if you haven't read the letter from Ivanka Trump and Kushner's Rabbi, it's really worth a read. There are a lot of ways it could have been written that would have left more room for face-saving and ambiguity. As it stands, it's a pretty stunning indictment of two people who are, by definition, very prominent parishioners. It's hard to see them attending that shul again, although they have no shame, so perhaps.
posted by OmieWise at 5:34 AM on August 17, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by OmieWise at 5:34 AM on August 17, 2017 [11 favorites]
"TRUMP: (Giggling) Me big boy... drive Daddy's car..."
I was with you up until this point. I don't think the man is capable of experiencing gleeful pleasure.
posted by komara at 5:34 AM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
I was with you up until this point. I don't think the man is capable of experiencing gleeful pleasure.
posted by komara at 5:34 AM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump
Great to see that Dr. Kelli Ward is running against Flake Jeff Flake, who is WEAK on borders, crime and a non-factor in Senate. He's toxic!
Oh, and Kelli Ward is the class act who said McCain should resign when he got his cancer diagnosis and that she should be appointed. The. Best. People.
posted by chris24 at 5:43 AM on August 17, 2017 [11 favorites]
Great to see that Dr. Kelli Ward is running against Flake Jeff Flake, who is WEAK on borders, crime and a non-factor in Senate. He's toxic!
Oh, and Kelli Ward is the class act who said McCain should resign when he got his cancer diagnosis and that she should be appointed. The. Best. People.
posted by chris24 at 5:43 AM on August 17, 2017 [11 favorites]
I missed the eyeholes on the megaphone on the Economist cover at first glance.
Damn.
posted by archimago at 5:47 AM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Damn.
posted by archimago at 5:47 AM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
komara: I don't think the man is capable of experiencing gleeful pleasure.
This sure looks like gleeful pleasure to me.
posted by Too-Ticky at 5:47 AM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
This sure looks like gleeful pleasure to me.
posted by Too-Ticky at 5:47 AM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Well, maybe "gleeful" is wrong and "pleasure" is too sunny a word, but he's definitely experiencing something potentially exploitable in Too-Ticky's pic. I think if people just got together and made a slight effort they could pull a Truman Show on him and steer him from truck to bill-signing to battleship to "big meeting with top brass" to Important Campaign Rally and back to truck again all week and then ship him to one of his golf clubs on the weekend without his detecting anything. Hire a TV crew and let them produce all the TV he sees. The bills would be called The Big American Trump Initiative to Power or the Trump Initiative to Power Big America or The Big Initiative to Power Trump's America and other permutations and the text of the bills would be "In order to big Power American initiatives, Trump Big Power America coal steel trade power America" and various permutations. The weekends would grow incrementally longer and the distances between holes on the golf courses incrementally shorter. Bedtime would come a little bit earlier every night.
posted by Don Pepino at 5:49 AM on August 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Don Pepino at 5:49 AM on August 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
omg somebody let the pigeon drive the bus
posted by flabdablet at 5:52 AM on August 17, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 5:52 AM on August 17, 2017 [21 favorites]
A lot of good stuff in here, but this...
NYT: Trump Comments on Race Open Breach With C.E.O.s, Military and G.O.P.
NYT: Trump Comments on Race Open Breach With C.E.O.s, Military and G.O.P.
The president’s top advisers described themselves as stunned, despondent and numb. Several said they were unable to see how Mr. Trump’s presidency would recover, and others expressed doubts about his capacity to do the job.posted by chris24 at 5:55 AM on August 17, 2017 [37 favorites]
“We Just Feel Like We Don’t Belong Here Anymore” [Becca Andrews; Mother Jones]
Since Trump’s election, there has been ample coverage of white people—the rise of white nationalism, the white working class that makes up Trump’s core constituency, the 53 percent of white women who voted him into office. Much less has been written about the people of color who live and work amid the rising tide of white nationalism in rural red states.posted by melissasaurus at 6:00 AM on August 17, 2017 [66 favorites]
BTW, if you haven't read the letter from Ivanka Trump and Kushner's Rabbi, it's really worth a read. There are a lot of ways it could have been written that would have left more room for face-saving and ambiguity. As it stands, it's a pretty stunning indictment of two people who are, by definition, very prominent parishioners. It's hard to see them attending that shul again, although they have no shame, so perhaps.
FWIW, I that's referring to a zachlipton post on the "Unite The Right Descends..." thread.
Here's the twitter link from it.
posted by mikelieman at 6:03 AM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
FWIW, I that's referring to a zachlipton post on the "Unite The Right Descends..." thread.
Here's the twitter link from it.
posted by mikelieman at 6:03 AM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oh, oops, getting threads mixed.
posted by OmieWise at 6:11 AM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by OmieWise at 6:11 AM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
"I saw him up there fooling around at the steering wheel. I guess I just assumed he could drive."
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:13 AM on August 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:13 AM on August 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
Poll: Support for Trump impeachment grows to 40 percent (The Hill)
The poll, done by the Public Religion Research Institute, shows a 10-point jump from the same results in February. It was conducted Aug. 2- 8, before the violent rally in Charlottesville and Trump’s controversial remarks about it this week.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 6:14 AM on August 17, 2017 [32 favorites]
The poll, done by the Public Religion Research Institute, shows a 10-point jump from the same results in February. It was conducted Aug. 2- 8, before the violent rally in Charlottesville and Trump’s controversial remarks about it this week.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 6:14 AM on August 17, 2017 [32 favorites]
Looks like we finally have a percentage for the Deplorables. And Hillary guessed low.
67% of Republicans approve of how he's handled Charlottesville. 68% agree with Trump in blaming both sides.
More details about how this polls and the partisan divide at the link.
posted by chris24 at 6:18 AM on August 17, 2017 [35 favorites]
67% of Republicans approve of how he's handled Charlottesville. 68% agree with Trump in blaming both sides.
More details about how this polls and the partisan divide at the link.
posted by chris24 at 6:18 AM on August 17, 2017 [35 favorites]
67% of Republicans approve of how he's handled Charlottesville. 68% agree with Trump in blaming both sides.
RIP Myth of the Moderate Republican. You won't be missed.
posted by uncleozzy at 6:23 AM on August 17, 2017 [70 favorites]
RIP Myth of the Moderate Republican. You won't be missed.
posted by uncleozzy at 6:23 AM on August 17, 2017 [70 favorites]
That's so unfair. There are lots of good people in that 68%! /s
posted by OmieWise at 6:26 AM on August 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by OmieWise at 6:26 AM on August 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump
Sad to see the history and culture of our great country being ripped apart with the removal of our beautiful statues and monuments. You.....
- ...can't change history, but you can learn from it. Robert E Lee, Stonewall Jackson - who's next, Washington, Jefferson? So foolish! Also...
- ...the beauty that is being taken out of our cities, towns and parks will be greatly missed and never able to be comparably replaced!
---
"History and culture of our great country." Ah, no.. Actually that was the Confederate States of America, not the United States of America. But good to see you claim the rebels. And culture? You mean white culture, white supremacy?
Going full Jefferson Davis.
posted by chris24 at 6:29 AM on August 17, 2017 [50 favorites]
Sad to see the history and culture of our great country being ripped apart with the removal of our beautiful statues and monuments. You.....
- ...can't change history, but you can learn from it. Robert E Lee, Stonewall Jackson - who's next, Washington, Jefferson? So foolish! Also...
- ...the beauty that is being taken out of our cities, towns and parks will be greatly missed and never able to be comparably replaced!
---
"History and culture of our great country." Ah, no.. Actually that was the Confederate States of America, not the United States of America. But good to see you claim the rebels. And culture? You mean white culture, white supremacy?
Going full Jefferson Davis.
posted by chris24 at 6:29 AM on August 17, 2017 [50 favorites]
the beauty that is being taken out of our cities, towns and parks will be greatly missed and never able to be comparably replaced!
"There is no art quite so beautiful as a fountain erected to intimidate black people."
posted by uncleozzy at 6:32 AM on August 17, 2017 [40 favorites]
"There is no art quite so beautiful as a fountain erected to intimidate black people."
posted by uncleozzy at 6:32 AM on August 17, 2017 [40 favorites]
You know what? If this administration really wants to learn from history, they should fully fund the NEH, the Department of Education, the Park Service, and other Federal agencies that promote historical research and education. I am sure they plan to do that immediately.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:34 AM on August 17, 2017 [33 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:34 AM on August 17, 2017 [33 favorites]
"Who's next Washington, Jefferson?"
Let's not get ahead of ourselves; we've still got thousands of Lees and Jacksons to pull down.
Anyway. Interesting/frightening that that's more or less exactly how Bannon expressed it in the NYT interview.
posted by notyou at 6:36 AM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Let's not get ahead of ourselves; we've still got thousands of Lees and Jacksons to pull down.
Anyway. Interesting/frightening that that's more or less exactly how Bannon expressed it in the NYT interview.
posted by notyou at 6:36 AM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
I may be reading too much into the letter from Ivanka and Jared's rabbis, but the ending caught my eye:
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:37 AM on August 17, 2017 [31 favorites]
We pray that our country heeds the voices of tolerance, and stays true to its vision of human rights and civil rights.Those last words refer to the coming Saturday, because one traditional Jewish way to refer to the date is to identify it by the portion of the Torah scheduled for reading on that Sabbath. But the identification seems superfluous here; they don't go anywhere with it. I suspect that they're making a point with that reference, one that's totally deniable but actually pretty harsh. The Torah portion of Re'eh begins at Deuteronomy 11:26, and it starts as follows:
Our message to our community and the world, as we turn toward Shabbat Re'eh...
26 Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but I think the reference is the message, and it's directed at certain members of their audience who need to make a choice about the side they're on.
27 A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day:
28 And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:37 AM on August 17, 2017 [31 favorites]
It is completely factual to refer to the Confederacy, and to the racial and societal abysses that it stood for, as part of the history and culture of America.
It is completely abhorrent to describe it as something worthy of reverence, respect or celebration.
posted by delfin at 6:37 AM on August 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
It is completely abhorrent to describe it as something worthy of reverence, respect or celebration.
posted by delfin at 6:37 AM on August 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
I can't believe no one has left the Republican Party yet. I mean, I can believe it, but - really?? Not even one Rep or Senator or Governor is like "so....I'm gonna be an independent for a while"??? Not a single one????
posted by melissasaurus at 6:38 AM on August 17, 2017 [41 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 6:38 AM on August 17, 2017 [41 favorites]
Remember the 2012 GOP autopsy that said for the longterm survival of the Republican Party, they needed to attract younger voters and minorities? Good times.
@evansiegfried (GOP strategist & author)
Past few years I've tried to bring millennials & minorities into the GOP. I've no idea how to credibly do so after Trump's remarks yesterday
McClatchy: Republicans deeply anxious that Trump is ruining GOP brand
@evansiegfried (GOP strategist & author)
Past few years I've tried to bring millennials & minorities into the GOP. I've no idea how to credibly do so after Trump's remarks yesterday
McClatchy: Republicans deeply anxious that Trump is ruining GOP brand
If Donald Trump’s campaign stomped all over the Republican Party’s 2012 plans to build a more diverse movement, his refusal now to squarely blame white supremacists and neo-Nazis for Charlottesville violence has destroyed those efforts entirely.posted by chris24 at 6:40 AM on August 17, 2017 [30 favorites]
Following defeat in the 2012 election, the Republican National Committee released an “autopsy report” offering recommendations for growing the party and improving its dismal standing with minorities and young people. Trump ignored much of that guidance and won anyway. But after the president this week insisted that there were “very fine people” among those who violently marched at a white supremacist rally, many Republicans fear that Trump is reinforcing the same negative perceptions about the party that they have spent years working to combat.
“Our plan is to reach out and talk to people who haven’t always agreed with us,” said Emmanuel Wilder, a North Carolina-based activist with the Young Republican National Federation. Trump’s comments, he said, make it that much harder. “It’s a major step back. The fact that the head of the party cannot call a spade a spade, it hurts…it’s near impossible for us to try to explain. It’s not really explainable.”
Added a dejected Republican state party chairman, “If he intended that — that’s almost so crazy that it’s sad. And of course, it’s counter to what the Republican Party has been trying to do, and sincerely so by most of us, for years: to let people of all races and backgrounds and socioeconomic circumstances know they have a home in the Republican Party.”
Interviews with a dozen Republican operatives and activists around the country revealed genuine frustration—and for some, disgust—over Trump’s repeated suggestions that there is an equivalence between the neo-Nazis, Ku Klux Klan members and white supremacists who marched in Virginia this weekend, and those who turned out to protest them, even as a woman died after a white supremacist rammed a car into a group of the counter-protesters.
“He is destroying the GOP one day at a time, one reckless statement and action at a time,” said Sally Bradshaw, a longtime adviser to Jeb Bush who co-authored the “autopsy” report and went on to leave the party over Trump. “Why would anyone consider supporting a political party when the leader of the party is anti-Semitic, anti-immigrant, anti-woman, and anti-black? He makes me sick.”
Today is the day he became President.
Of the Confederacy.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:41 AM on August 17, 2017 [52 favorites]
Of the Confederacy.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:41 AM on August 17, 2017 [52 favorites]
Why would Trump or Bannon et al. worry about bringing minorities and women into the GOP? They ran on Make White Penises In Charge Again in 2016, and they won*. With a little tweaking to voter rolls, district boundaries, court makeups, voting machine firmware and maybe a convenient military action or two, they have no doubt that they could do it again without pretending that anyone else matters.
* For varying definitions of "won"
posted by delfin at 6:49 AM on August 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
* For varying definitions of "won"
posted by delfin at 6:49 AM on August 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
The fact that the head of the party cannot call a spade a spade...
I know that a spade is a small shovel and a suit in a deck of playing cards. But, in this case, I would have found a better way to phrase that.
posted by SPrintF at 6:50 AM on August 17, 2017 [24 favorites]
I know that a spade is a small shovel and a suit in a deck of playing cards. But, in this case, I would have found a better way to phrase that.
posted by SPrintF at 6:50 AM on August 17, 2017 [24 favorites]
"I support him more than ever."
It's a cult.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:51 AM on August 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
It's a cult.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:51 AM on August 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
I can't believe no one has left the Republican Party yet.
Why would they? In a 2 party system - why break ranks?
If the system was structured so you could still have a good shot at getting the job AND not have to be beholden to the power structure this Trump situation would not exist.
Interesting that going from a label of neo-Nazi to just Nazi has made a change, but there ya go.
posted by rough ashlar at 6:52 AM on August 17, 2017
Why would they? In a 2 party system - why break ranks?
If the system was structured so you could still have a good shot at getting the job AND not have to be beholden to the power structure this Trump situation would not exist.
Interesting that going from a label of neo-Nazi to just Nazi has made a change, but there ya go.
posted by rough ashlar at 6:52 AM on August 17, 2017
“He is destroying the GOP one day at a time, one reckless statement and action at a time,” said Sally Bradshaw, a longtime adviser to Jeb Bush who co-authored the “autopsy” report and went on to leave the party over Trump. “Why would anyone consider supporting a political party when the leader of the party is anti-Semitic, anti-immigrant, anti-woman, and anti-black? He makes me sick.”
Yes, WHY INDEED? This was your party all along, Republicans who are shocked - SHOCKED - to find racism and sexism are going on in here.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:54 AM on August 17, 2017 [63 favorites]
Yes, WHY INDEED? This was your party all along, Republicans who are shocked - SHOCKED - to find racism and sexism are going on in here.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:54 AM on August 17, 2017 [63 favorites]
Poll: Support for Trump impeachment grows to 40 percent (The Hill)
"There is also a gender divide on impeachment views, with 60 percent of men supporting Trump impeachment compared to 45 percent of women, according to the poll."
I am pretty sure both of those numbers can't be true.
posted by littlegreen at 6:55 AM on August 17, 2017 [10 favorites]
"There is also a gender divide on impeachment views, with 60 percent of men supporting Trump impeachment compared to 45 percent of women, according to the poll."
I am pretty sure both of those numbers can't be true.
posted by littlegreen at 6:55 AM on August 17, 2017 [10 favorites]
Past few years I've tried to bring millennials & minorities into the GOP. I've no idea how to credibly do so after Trump's remarks yesterday
GOP: "Oh well, guess we'll have to destroy democracy once and for all then."
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:57 AM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
GOP: "Oh well, guess we'll have to destroy democracy once and for all then."
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:57 AM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
ACLU of Northern California, Southern California and San Diego and Imperial Counties have broken rank with the ACLU national office saying white supremacy is not free speech.
I know where my next donation is going.
posted by Sophie1 at 6:58 AM on August 17, 2017 [26 favorites]
I know where my next donation is going.
posted by Sophie1 at 6:58 AM on August 17, 2017 [26 favorites]
"All these folks worried about erasing history when the Confederate statues come down will be thrilled to learn about the existence of books."
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 7:00 AM on August 17, 2017 [107 favorites]
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 7:00 AM on August 17, 2017 [107 favorites]
“If he intended that — that’s almost so crazy that it’s sad. And of course, it’s counter to what the Republican Party has been trying to do, and sincerely so by most of us, for years: to let people of all races and backgrounds and socioeconomic circumstances know they have a home in the Republican Party.”
How have they done that, exactly? Gerrymandering and voter registration laws tell a very different story. The hell are they talking about here?
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 7:03 AM on August 17, 2017 [13 favorites]
How have they done that, exactly? Gerrymandering and voter registration laws tell a very different story. The hell are they talking about here?
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 7:03 AM on August 17, 2017 [13 favorites]
only eggheads and communists read books - don't you know anything?
posted by pyramid termite at 7:03 AM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by pyramid termite at 7:03 AM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
I know some NeverTrump intellectual Republican types and the general feeling is that leaving the GOP is abandoning the party to an idiot who isn't even conservative. If they leave the party, there's no chance of ever righting the ship and advancing their policies. I find it hard to believe there's much of a chance of righting the ship if they stay, either, but whatever.
I go back and forth all the time about who is more fucked as a result of the Trump Administration, the Democrats or the GOP. I guess the answer is both, and all of us.
posted by something something at 7:04 AM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
I go back and forth all the time about who is more fucked as a result of the Trump Administration, the Democrats or the GOP. I guess the answer is both, and all of us.
posted by something something at 7:04 AM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
> Today is the day he became President.Wikipedia page of the POTCSA briefly edited to include Trump.
Of the Confederacy.
Was that you, T.D.??
posted by runcifex at 7:05 AM on August 17, 2017 [17 favorites]
Headline:
ACLU of California Statement: White Supremacist Violence is Not Free Speech
Statement:
posted by notyou at 7:05 AM on August 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
ACLU of California Statement: White Supremacist Violence is Not Free Speech
Statement:
Our country’s greatest strengths are the diversity of its people and the principles of equal dignity and inclusion that unite us all. There are troubling events planned in our state in the coming weeks. This is an incredibly painful and difficult time for millions of Californians. For those who are wondering where we stand – the ACLU of California fully supports the freedom of speech and expression, as well as the freedom to peacefully assemble. We review each request for help on a case-by-case basis, but take the clear position that the First Amendment does not protect people who incite or engage in violence. If white supremacists march into our towns armed to the teeth and with the intent to harm people, they are not engaging in activity protected by the United States Constitution. The First Amendment should never be used as a shield or sword to justify violence.Where's the break with the national ACLU?
posted by notyou at 7:05 AM on August 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
melissasaurus: "I can't believe no one has left the Republican Party yet. I mean, I can believe it, but - really?? Not even one Rep or Senator or Governor is like "so....I'm gonna be an independent for a while"??? Not a single one????"
Murkowski is the most inexplicable one of these. She has been thrown under the bus by her own party repeatedly, including a primary defeat (and subsequent successful election in a write-in campaign).
She would do great as an independent. I don't agree with her on many issues, but she's a far better reflection of her constituents' opinions than her party is. It's not at all surprising that she won that election. She doesn't need the GOP, and frankly, that reflects the independent spirit that many Alaskans hold.
posted by schmod at 7:08 AM on August 17, 2017 [14 favorites]
Murkowski is the most inexplicable one of these. She has been thrown under the bus by her own party repeatedly, including a primary defeat (and subsequent successful election in a write-in campaign).
She would do great as an independent. I don't agree with her on many issues, but she's a far better reflection of her constituents' opinions than her party is. It's not at all surprising that she won that election. She doesn't need the GOP, and frankly, that reflects the independent spirit that many Alaskans hold.
posted by schmod at 7:08 AM on August 17, 2017 [14 favorites]
Couldn't the ACLU split the difference and just say
'We believe that all people have the right to free speech no matter how onerous. However, we will not be wasting our resources protecting the free speech rights of white supremacist assholes. Too bad so sad.'
posted by ian1977 at 7:10 AM on August 17, 2017 [12 favorites]
'We believe that all people have the right to free speech no matter how onerous. However, we will not be wasting our resources protecting the free speech rights of white supremacist assholes. Too bad so sad.'
posted by ian1977 at 7:10 AM on August 17, 2017 [12 favorites]
Murkowski is the most inexplicable one of these. She has been thrown under the bus by her own party repeatedly, including a primary defeat (and subsequent successful election in a write-in campaign).
She would do great as an independent. I don't agree with her on many issues, but she's a far better reflection of her constituents' opinions than her party is. It's not at all surprising that she won that election. She doesn't need the GOP, and frankly, that reflects the independent spirit that many Alaskans hold. [emphasis added]
While I get your point, I almost completely disagree with your reading here. Murkowski is the Chairman of the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee. That has huge implications for Alaska. If she left the GOP she would lose that leadership post. There is no way the GOP lets her keep it after she's left the party, even if she says she will continue to caucus with them, in which case, why leave anyway? I would actually be shocked to see her leave the GOP.
posted by OmieWise at 7:16 AM on August 17, 2017 [39 favorites]
She would do great as an independent. I don't agree with her on many issues, but she's a far better reflection of her constituents' opinions than her party is. It's not at all surprising that she won that election. She doesn't need the GOP, and frankly, that reflects the independent spirit that many Alaskans hold. [emphasis added]
While I get your point, I almost completely disagree with your reading here. Murkowski is the Chairman of the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee. That has huge implications for Alaska. If she left the GOP she would lose that leadership post. There is no way the GOP lets her keep it after she's left the party, even if she says she will continue to caucus with them, in which case, why leave anyway? I would actually be shocked to see her leave the GOP.
posted by OmieWise at 7:16 AM on August 17, 2017 [39 favorites]
Was that you, T.D.??
I was (one of the ones) who fixed it.
posted by jessamyn at 7:18 AM on August 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
I was (one of the ones) who fixed it.
posted by jessamyn at 7:18 AM on August 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
I was (one of the ones) who fixed it.
JFC, you're modding here and fixing WikiPenis?
Seriously, take a Dandelion Break for self-care, OK?
posted by mikelieman at 7:22 AM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
JFC, you're modding here and fixing WikiPenis?
Seriously, take a Dandelion Break for self-care, OK?
posted by mikelieman at 7:22 AM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
If there was ever a doubt that Trumpism is a whitelash to the Obama presidency and the progress toward equality for POC, the overt embrace of white supremacy kinda settles it.
posted by chris24 at 7:23 AM on August 17, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 7:23 AM on August 17, 2017 [29 favorites]
The New York Review of Books responds to Trump by taking down the paywall on James M. McPherson's classic essay on the myth of the Lost Cause.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:29 AM on August 17, 2017 [80 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:29 AM on August 17, 2017 [80 favorites]
From the article in chris24's comment above, about the GOP wringing its hands over its "brand":
“Our plan is to reach out and talk to people who haven’t always agreed with us,” said Emmanuel Wilder, a North Carolina-based activist with the Young Republican National Federation. Trump’s comments, he said, make it that much harder. “It’s a major step back. The fact that the head of the party cannot call a spade a spade, it hurts…it’s near impossible for us to try to explain. It’s not really explainable.”
Heya GOP dude. Do you mean a step back to that branding exercise in Neshoba County in 1980?
Objects in mirror may be as racist as they appear.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:35 AM on August 17, 2017 [14 favorites]
“Our plan is to reach out and talk to people who haven’t always agreed with us,” said Emmanuel Wilder, a North Carolina-based activist with the Young Republican National Federation. Trump’s comments, he said, make it that much harder. “It’s a major step back. The fact that the head of the party cannot call a spade a spade, it hurts…it’s near impossible for us to try to explain. It’s not really explainable.”
Heya GOP dude. Do you mean a step back to that branding exercise in Neshoba County in 1980?
Objects in mirror may be as racist as they appear.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:35 AM on August 17, 2017 [14 favorites]
I gotta say, White Supremacy Week has been rolled out way better than Infrastructure Week.
posted by chris24 at 7:38 AM on August 17, 2017 [77 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 7:38 AM on August 17, 2017 [77 favorites]
I gotta say, White Supremacy Week has been rolled out way better than Infrastructure Week.
Every day has been on topic
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:40 AM on August 17, 2017 [50 favorites]
Every day has been on topic
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:40 AM on August 17, 2017 [50 favorites]
> "There is also a gender divide on impeachment views, with 60 percent of men supporting Trump impeachment compared to 45 percent of women, according to the poll."
I am pretty sure both of those numbers can't be true.
Yep. It's 60 percent of men opposed to impeachment compared to 45 percent of women. (link)
posted by nangar at 7:45 AM on August 17, 2017 [19 favorites]
I am pretty sure both of those numbers can't be true.
Yep. It's 60 percent of men opposed to impeachment compared to 45 percent of women. (link)
posted by nangar at 7:45 AM on August 17, 2017 [19 favorites]
Sad to see the history and culture of our great country being ripped apart with the removal of our beautiful statues and monuments
Yes, indeed, losing works of "art" like the Nathan Bedford Forrest statue in Nashville would truly make our landscape poorer.
posted by sgranade at 7:49 AM on August 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
Yes, indeed, losing works of "art" like the Nathan Bedford Forrest statue in Nashville would truly make our landscape poorer.
posted by sgranade at 7:49 AM on August 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
On the other hand, that Nathan Bedford Forrest statue is so bad that it might be serving to ridicule him.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:52 AM on August 17, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:52 AM on August 17, 2017 [13 favorites]
Given the particularly deep structural entrenchment of the two-party system in the US (with not only first-past-the-post voting but also the Electoral College coupled with the power of the executive branch), either the Republican Party will right itself (by purging itself of extremists, by imposing its vision on America in general, or some position between the two) or will go the way of the Whigs and the Anti-Masonic Party, leaving its share of the duopoly to be taken by a new party.
There's a tipping point below which a party has lost so much support that the disintegration becomes irreversible and it falls out of the orbits of power. It may hang around a bit, perhaps becoming the plaything of a few cliques of enthusiasts, but once they get bored of it, at some point, the last person turns the lights out and the organisation is struck off the relevant registers. (This happened to the Australian Democrats a few decades ago; the UK's Liberal Party was saved from this fate by its merger with the Social Democratic Party and continues circling the drain to this day.)
posted by acb at 7:53 AM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
There's a tipping point below which a party has lost so much support that the disintegration becomes irreversible and it falls out of the orbits of power. It may hang around a bit, perhaps becoming the plaything of a few cliques of enthusiasts, but once they get bored of it, at some point, the last person turns the lights out and the organisation is struck off the relevant registers. (This happened to the Australian Democrats a few decades ago; the UK's Liberal Party was saved from this fate by its merger with the Social Democratic Party and continues circling the drain to this day.)
posted by acb at 7:53 AM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
I gotta say, White Supremacy Week has been rolled out way better than Infrastructure Week.
Do we know what next week's theme is yet? Like, are they dialing it back to Casual Racism Week or are they doubling down and its Nazi "Cosplay" Week?
posted by nubs at 7:54 AM on August 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
Do we know what next week's theme is yet? Like, are they dialing it back to Casual Racism Week or are they doubling down and its Nazi "Cosplay" Week?
posted by nubs at 7:54 AM on August 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
@sarahkendzior
Trump seems to need the assurance that massive failing traitorous losers will still be celebrated in the US for some reason 🤔
posted by chris24 at 7:55 AM on August 17, 2017 [148 favorites]
Trump seems to need the assurance that massive failing traitorous losers will still be celebrated in the US for some reason 🤔
posted by chris24 at 7:55 AM on August 17, 2017 [148 favorites]
He ought to be impeached for inciting violence and giving aid and comfort to America's enemies, but America's in some kind of asinine midlife crisis these days so don't count on anybody to do anything responsible if it's too personally or politically painful.
posted by saulgoodman at 7:57 AM on August 17, 2017
posted by saulgoodman at 7:57 AM on August 17, 2017
“We Just Feel Like We Don’t Belong Here Anymore” [Becca Andrews; Mother Jones]
Since Trump’s election, there has been ample coverage of white people—the rise of white nationalism, the white working class that makes up Trump’s core constituency, the 53 percent of white women who voted him into office. Much less has been written about the people of color who live and work amid the rising tide of white nationalism in rural red states.
Turner’s mom, who cleans houses in town for a living, went to work a couple of days after that, and her employer, an older white woman, brought up the results of the recent election. The two had talked politics before—Turner’s mom is a Democrat, and her employer is a Republican. “Well, you might as well come and live with me now,” the employer said. “You gonna be mine eventually.”
Holy hell, even after the events of the past week, I didn't realize that literal re-enslavement was on the table.
posted by GalaxieFiveHundred at 7:57 AM on August 17, 2017 [114 favorites]
Since Trump’s election, there has been ample coverage of white people—the rise of white nationalism, the white working class that makes up Trump’s core constituency, the 53 percent of white women who voted him into office. Much less has been written about the people of color who live and work amid the rising tide of white nationalism in rural red states.
Turner’s mom, who cleans houses in town for a living, went to work a couple of days after that, and her employer, an older white woman, brought up the results of the recent election. The two had talked politics before—Turner’s mom is a Democrat, and her employer is a Republican. “Well, you might as well come and live with me now,” the employer said. “You gonna be mine eventually.”
Holy hell, even after the events of the past week, I didn't realize that literal re-enslavement was on the table.
posted by GalaxieFiveHundred at 7:57 AM on August 17, 2017 [114 favorites]
Yes, indeed, losing works of "art" like the Nathan Bedford Forrest statue in Nashville would truly make our landscape poorer.
I drive past that statue twice a day going to and from work and we all truly hate it. It is despised by everyone on that stretch of highway.
Unfortunately, and with many previous attempts to remove it from planet Earth, it is on private property.
There is currently a revival in the idea to block that ugly PoS from view of the interstate.
posted by Twain Device at 7:59 AM on August 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
I drive past that statue twice a day going to and from work and we all truly hate it. It is despised by everyone on that stretch of highway.
Unfortunately, and with many previous attempts to remove it from planet Earth, it is on private property.
There is currently a revival in the idea to block that ugly PoS from view of the interstate.
posted by Twain Device at 7:59 AM on August 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
I just rewatched Lisa Simpson's epic screed Cesspool on the Potomac from like..25 years ago and it's more relevant than ever. Right on, Lisa.
posted by azuresunday at 8:00 AM on August 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by azuresunday at 8:00 AM on August 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
He ought to be impeached for inciting violence and giving aid and comfort to America's enemies
Yeah, there's really no way to read today's tweets about statues as other than a deliberate attempt to stoke racial animus to please the only reliable constituency he has left and hurt people who don't like him. This is only going to get worse.
posted by chris24 at 8:03 AM on August 17, 2017 [18 favorites]
Yeah, there's really no way to read today's tweets about statues as other than a deliberate attempt to stoke racial animus to please the only reliable constituency he has left and hurt people who don't like him. This is only going to get worse.
posted by chris24 at 8:03 AM on August 17, 2017 [18 favorites]
either the Republican Party will right itself (by purging itself of extremists, by imposing its vision on America in general, or some position between the two) or will go the way of the Whigs and the Anti-Masonic Party, leaving its share of the duopoly to be taken by a new party.
Right now the Republican Party is in the process of dying, but what it's being replaced with is Actual Nazis.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:03 AM on August 17, 2017 [18 favorites]
Right now the Republican Party is in the process of dying, but what it's being replaced with is Actual Nazis.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:03 AM on August 17, 2017 [18 favorites]
If white supremacists march into our towns armed to the teeth and with the intent to harm people, they are not engaging in activity protected by the United States Constitution. The First Amendment should never be used as a shield or sword to justify violence.
I've been thinking on this. I just don't see why nazis and WS should get free speech protections at all. I used to think they should, but I don't anymore. There are no 1A protections for obscenity or threats and chants of "kill all jews" coming from an armed nazi checks both of those boxes. If I can get a ticket for having an obscene bumper sticker, why are these shitbags offered so much protection ?
Fuck that noise.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 8:04 AM on August 17, 2017 [27 favorites]
I've been thinking on this. I just don't see why nazis and WS should get free speech protections at all. I used to think they should, but I don't anymore. There are no 1A protections for obscenity or threats and chants of "kill all jews" coming from an armed nazi checks both of those boxes. If I can get a ticket for having an obscene bumper sticker, why are these shitbags offered so much protection ?
Fuck that noise.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 8:04 AM on August 17, 2017 [27 favorites]
I gotta say, White Supremacy Week has been rolled out way better than Infrastructure Week.
*assumes Lionel Hutz voice*
"Confederate statutes are kinds of infrastructure."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:11 AM on August 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
*assumes Lionel Hutz voice*
"Confederate statutes are kinds of infrastructure."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:11 AM on August 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
I just... I'm from Italy. After WWII we made it a point to remove as many symbols of fascism as we could, up to and including symbols that had been CO-OPTED by the fascists, like the Roman fasces themselves. Everyone manages to remember history anyway.
White supremacists, Nazis and Fascists don't have a right to intimidate minorities and bystanders in the name of history. Fuck your fucking history.
posted by lydhre at 8:11 AM on August 17, 2017 [83 favorites]
White supremacists, Nazis and Fascists don't have a right to intimidate minorities and bystanders in the name of history. Fuck your fucking history.
posted by lydhre at 8:11 AM on August 17, 2017 [83 favorites]
Paradox of Intolerance
The paradox of tolerance, first described by Karl Popper in 1945, is a decision theory paradox. The paradox states that if a society is tolerant without limit, their ability to be tolerant will eventually be seized or destroyed by the intolerant. Popper came to the seemingly paradoxical conclusion that in order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance.posted by chris24 at 8:11 AM on August 17, 2017 [42 favorites]
...
Philosopher Karl Popper defined the paradox in 1945 in The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1.Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.He concluded that we are warranted in refusing to tolerate intolerance: "We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant."
In 1971, philosopher John Rawls concludes in A Theory of Justice that a just society must tolerate the intolerant, for otherwise, the society would then itself be intolerant, and thus unjust. However, Rawls also insists, like Popper, that society has a reasonable right of self-preservation that supersedes the principle of tolerance: "While an intolerant sect does not itself have title to complain of intolerance, its freedom should be restricted only when the tolerant sincerely and with reason believe that their own security and that of the institutions of liberty are in danger."
In a 1997 work, Michael Walzer asked "Should we tolerate the intolerant?" He notes that most minority religious groups who are the beneficiaries of tolerance are themselves intolerant, at least in some respects. In a tolerant regime, such people may learn to tolerate, or at least to behave "as if they possessed this virtue".
Tolerance and freedom of speech
The paradox of tolerance is important in the discussion of what, if any, boundaries are to be set on freedom of speech. Popper asserted that to allow freedom of speech to those who would use it to eliminate the very principle upon which they rely is paradoxical. Rosenfeld states "it seems contradictory to extend freedom of speech to extremists who... if successful, ruthlessly suppress the speech of those with whom they disagree," and points out that the Western European Democracies and the United States have opposite approaches to the question of tolerance of hate speech.
National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: I am in favor of Confederate statues. I am definitely not a pigeon.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:11 AM on August 17, 2017 [44 favorites]
I am a human being like you, a featherless biped with hairs all over my epidermis. And I am not a racist. I don’t know what the word “racism” means. Also, I don’t see color. I perceive light on the ultraviolet spectrum. As everyone here does, I hope. That is how we humans perceive light, I am pretty sure.She also notes that the Onion made a pigeon joke while she was writing that.
Getting rid of these statues would be for the birds, an expression I use in its derogatory sense, as we humans often do.
Like so many of us here, I do not have a racist bone in my body, though if I did that racist bone would definitely be dense and not hollow. I just want to protect my nest egg — NOT a literal egg in a nest, of course, but one of those metaphorical nest eggs we human beings are always so upset about. Economic anxiety? Yes, I have that. That is what I have. My nest egg, again, is metaphorical, not literally on this statue right now, vulnerable and exposed with its white shell open to the elements. KEEP THAT TORCH AWAY from what is definitely not my only genetic legacy, but a beautifully constructed nest that is unaffiliated with me, a human protester.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:11 AM on August 17, 2017 [44 favorites]
“Well, you might as well come and live with me now,” the employer said. “You gonna be mine eventually.”
I had a whole thing typed up about my visceral response to this, but then I realized maybe I shouldn't make this about my white lady horror at the things white people do and say, and have been doing and saying for my entire life, regardless of my own awareness.
I will instead say I've never felt this certainty of purpose before. I will fight these people however I can, and I'll fight the ideas and the feelings that animate them wherever I find them.
I am so fucking sorry.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:19 AM on August 17, 2017 [54 favorites]
I had a whole thing typed up about my visceral response to this, but then I realized maybe I shouldn't make this about my white lady horror at the things white people do and say, and have been doing and saying for my entire life, regardless of my own awareness.
I will instead say I've never felt this certainty of purpose before. I will fight these people however I can, and I'll fight the ideas and the feelings that animate them wherever I find them.
I am so fucking sorry.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:19 AM on August 17, 2017 [54 favorites]
I can't believe no one has left the Republican Party yet. I mean, I can believe it, but - really?? Not even one Rep or Senator or Governor is like "so....I'm gonna be an independent for a while"??? Not a single one????
I know two moderate Republicans who have left the party "in disgust." Makes you wonder--should they fight from within, or without?
posted by Melismata at 8:19 AM on August 17, 2017
I know two moderate Republicans who have left the party "in disgust." Makes you wonder--should they fight from within, or without?
posted by Melismata at 8:19 AM on August 17, 2017
Here are some residents of Durham lining up to turn themselves in to the police for destroying confederate statues.
posted by OmieWise at 8:20 AM on August 17, 2017 [107 favorites]
posted by OmieWise at 8:20 AM on August 17, 2017 [107 favorites]
Here are some residents of Durham lining up to turn themselves in to the police for destroying confederate statues.
Wow. I've only lived in Durham since May but I am so proud of this town.
posted by azuresunday at 8:23 AM on August 17, 2017 [18 favorites]
Wow. I've only lived in Durham since May but I am so proud of this town.
posted by azuresunday at 8:23 AM on August 17, 2017 [18 favorites]
I know I highlighted it when I posted his statue tweets, but I'm still amazed by the "culture" reference. Which he also made in his Tuesday rant.
America is still here. White people are still here. Neither culture has been wiped out or even threatened. The only thing he means is the white supremacist/slave culture of the Confederacy/Deep South. And it's so fucking obvious.
posted by chris24 at 8:37 AM on August 17, 2017 [11 favorites]
America is still here. White people are still here. Neither culture has been wiped out or even threatened. The only thing he means is the white supremacist/slave culture of the Confederacy/Deep South. And it's so fucking obvious.
posted by chris24 at 8:37 AM on August 17, 2017 [11 favorites]
The tolerance paradox also lends itself well to the Kim Davises of the world.
Freedom of expression and of religion are extremely important -- but what happens when your beliefs say that I have no right to my beliefs, and that your beliefs should have force of law? Simply this -- a clear statement that under the law, your beliefs are opt-in, and secondary to your obligations and rights as a citizen. They are not disregarded or punished but neither do they outweigh the equivalent beliefs of the next guy. This is the "your fist-waving rights end where my nose begins" principle.
It follows that hate speech, whatever its target, falls short of the principle of the government's clear interest in maintaining and maximizing individual freedom in that it attempts to bully others' freedoms out of existence to extremes that violate civil rights.
The Roy Moores of the world have an obvious problem with this, as they find it impossible that their beliefs should be subordinate to anything else. They are invited to choke on an ostrich's dick. (Not forced to, mind you. It is simply my invitation.)
posted by delfin at 8:46 AM on August 17, 2017 [10 favorites]
Freedom of expression and of religion are extremely important -- but what happens when your beliefs say that I have no right to my beliefs, and that your beliefs should have force of law? Simply this -- a clear statement that under the law, your beliefs are opt-in, and secondary to your obligations and rights as a citizen. They are not disregarded or punished but neither do they outweigh the equivalent beliefs of the next guy. This is the "your fist-waving rights end where my nose begins" principle.
It follows that hate speech, whatever its target, falls short of the principle of the government's clear interest in maintaining and maximizing individual freedom in that it attempts to bully others' freedoms out of existence to extremes that violate civil rights.
The Roy Moores of the world have an obvious problem with this, as they find it impossible that their beliefs should be subordinate to anything else. They are invited to choke on an ostrich's dick. (Not forced to, mind you. It is simply my invitation.)
posted by delfin at 8:46 AM on August 17, 2017 [10 favorites]
America is still here. White people are still here. Neither culture has been wiped out or even threatened.
Jello and cans of cream-of-mushroom soup are still sold in stores. $80 yoga pants are still for sale. No one feels ashamed that they clap on beats 1 and 3.
posted by thelonius at 8:48 AM on August 17, 2017 [58 favorites]
Jello and cans of cream-of-mushroom soup are still sold in stores. $80 yoga pants are still for sale. No one feels ashamed that they clap on beats 1 and 3.
posted by thelonius at 8:48 AM on August 17, 2017 [58 favorites]
There's tolerance . . and then there's making policy based on delusions. You can't demand NASA to acknowledge a Flat Earth Society's delusions, and you shouldn't allow public forums to be hijacked by delusions about 'race' and 'white people'.
We don't tolerate yelling fire in a theater. Exclaiming the peril of 'white culture' is the same type of crime. It endangers lives with fictions.
posted by rc3spencer at 8:51 AM on August 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
We don't tolerate yelling fire in a theater. Exclaiming the peril of 'white culture' is the same type of crime. It endangers lives with fictions.
posted by rc3spencer at 8:51 AM on August 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
America is still here. White people are still here. Neither culture has been wiped out or even threatened.
Jello and cans of cream-of-mushroom soup are still sold in stores. $80 yoga pants are still for sale. No one feels ashamed that they clap on beats 1 and 3.
Prairie Home Companion has an extremely long half life.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:53 AM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Jello and cans of cream-of-mushroom soup are still sold in stores. $80 yoga pants are still for sale. No one feels ashamed that they clap on beats 1 and 3.
Prairie Home Companion has an extremely long half life.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:53 AM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
angrycat: I have a sad thought that in this world businesses are more accountable (shareholders/customers) than the GOP.
One reason people want government to operate like a business is that businesses can change direction and act quickly, in response to market pressures and real world events.
Government bureaucracy is a slow and arduous process for the most part, and similarly but unrelated, elected officials feel the most pressure to act when they're up for re-election. Both bureaucracy and elected officials are then buffered by the daily chaos of the world, both for good and for ill. Bills often don't become law, and on average take 263.57 days to become law, and even then, many laws "start" at some future date, while ousting a current elected official or getting them to step down has a similar range of time from issue made public to final action. Ralph Shortey, former Republican State Senator in Oklahoma, stepped down a mere 6 days after being charged with soliciting a minor for prostitution and related charges, while the impeachment of Bill Clinton was a lengthy process.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:55 AM on August 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
One reason people want government to operate like a business is that businesses can change direction and act quickly, in response to market pressures and real world events.
Government bureaucracy is a slow and arduous process for the most part, and similarly but unrelated, elected officials feel the most pressure to act when they're up for re-election. Both bureaucracy and elected officials are then buffered by the daily chaos of the world, both for good and for ill. Bills often don't become law, and on average take 263.57 days to become law, and even then, many laws "start" at some future date, while ousting a current elected official or getting them to step down has a similar range of time from issue made public to final action. Ralph Shortey, former Republican State Senator in Oklahoma, stepped down a mere 6 days after being charged with soliciting a minor for prostitution and related charges, while the impeachment of Bill Clinton was a lengthy process.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:55 AM on August 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
The paradox states that if a society is tolerant without limit, their ability to be tolerant will eventually be seized or destroyed by the intolerant.
As a young man I saw this play out on a micro-level all the time, in the form of the guys who exercised dominance in their social groups by virtue of not caring about being thought of as assholes—empowered, of course, by the other guys' not wanting to be thought of as assholes by challenging them.
As a more mature person, I can now see that as cowardice, groupthink, and diffusion of responsibility, so I'm glad to see so many people now are calling the assholes out with regard to racism and tolerating things like Confederate statues. I'm equally outraged at the leadership who refuse to stop the Asshole-in-Chief, though... and something tells me their refusal isn't because they're concerned about being thought of as assholes at all.
posted by Rykey at 8:57 AM on August 17, 2017 [13 favorites]
As a young man I saw this play out on a micro-level all the time, in the form of the guys who exercised dominance in their social groups by virtue of not caring about being thought of as assholes—empowered, of course, by the other guys' not wanting to be thought of as assholes by challenging them.
As a more mature person, I can now see that as cowardice, groupthink, and diffusion of responsibility, so I'm glad to see so many people now are calling the assholes out with regard to racism and tolerating things like Confederate statues. I'm equally outraged at the leadership who refuse to stop the Asshole-in-Chief, though... and something tells me their refusal isn't because they're concerned about being thought of as assholes at all.
posted by Rykey at 8:57 AM on August 17, 2017 [13 favorites]
Interesting. From a Russian journalist.
@Alexey__Kovalev
Morning show on state-owned Vesti FM, pro-Putin pundit absolutely destroys Trump: "complete bastard", "compulsive liar" etc.
- "We pushed ourselves into a corner by whitewashing everything Trump says/does. Now he's openly siding with Nazis, what are we going to do?"
- "Does Trump expect us to just pat him on the back every time, no matter how vile his actions? Does he think Russia is a fascist state?" woah
- This is no ordinary govt pundit, Krasheninnikova is high in Russian propaganda hierarchy. And she's flooring Trump right now live on air.
- On Daily Stormer's incursion into .ru: "This blackshirt scum has no place in Russia. Our country defeated fascism".
- I repeat, this is one of the most popular morning talk shows on Russia's state radio network, all above said by a top pro-govt pundit.
- "How could we be so blind as to believe our own propaganda? It was clear from the start that Trump was extremely dangerous". woah woah
- So, a very high-profile, pro-Putin pundit just said: 1) Trump is a liar, he's is no friend of Russia 2) Nazis, you suck, go away. Well then.
- Okay, just to clarify: it's not an overnight U-Turn for this pundit. But she's v influential so I'd start worrying if I were Trump.
- Let's get smth straight:
1) Above doesn't mean a policy U-Turn bc there's no Trump policy in the first place
2) There are no "pee tapes"
posted by chris24 at 9:02 AM on August 17, 2017 [64 favorites]
@Alexey__Kovalev
Morning show on state-owned Vesti FM, pro-Putin pundit absolutely destroys Trump: "complete bastard", "compulsive liar" etc.
- "We pushed ourselves into a corner by whitewashing everything Trump says/does. Now he's openly siding with Nazis, what are we going to do?"
- "Does Trump expect us to just pat him on the back every time, no matter how vile his actions? Does he think Russia is a fascist state?" woah
- This is no ordinary govt pundit, Krasheninnikova is high in Russian propaganda hierarchy. And she's flooring Trump right now live on air.
- On Daily Stormer's incursion into .ru: "This blackshirt scum has no place in Russia. Our country defeated fascism".
- I repeat, this is one of the most popular morning talk shows on Russia's state radio network, all above said by a top pro-govt pundit.
- "How could we be so blind as to believe our own propaganda? It was clear from the start that Trump was extremely dangerous". woah woah
- So, a very high-profile, pro-Putin pundit just said: 1) Trump is a liar, he's is no friend of Russia 2) Nazis, you suck, go away. Well then.
- Okay, just to clarify: it's not an overnight U-Turn for this pundit. But she's v influential so I'd start worrying if I were Trump.
- Let's get smth straight:
1) Above doesn't mean a policy U-Turn bc there's no Trump policy in the first place
2) There are no "pee tapes"
posted by chris24 at 9:02 AM on August 17, 2017 [64 favorites]
Can't believe nobody's linked to the Yonatan Zunger piece on the paradox of tolerance yet (have they? hard to find things sometimes on these threads):
Tolerance is not a moral preceptposted by cybertaur1 at 9:06 AM on August 17, 2017 [105 favorites]
The title of this essay should disturb you. We have been brought up to believe that tolerating other people is one of the things you do if you’re a nice person — whether we learned this in kindergarten or from Biblical maxims like “love your neighbor as yourself” and “do unto others.”
But if you have ever tried to live your life this way, you will have seen it fail: “Why won’t you tolerate my intolerance?” This comes in all sorts of forms: accepting a person’s actively antisocial behavior because it’s just part of being an accepting group of friends; being told that prejudice against Nazis is the same as prejudice against Black people; watching people try to give “equal time” to a religious (or irreligious) group whose guiding principle is that everyone must join them or else.
Every one of these examples should raise your suspicions that something isn’t right; that tolerance be damned, one of these things is not like the other. But if you were raised with an intense version of “tolerance is a moral requirement,” then you may feel that this is a thought you should fight off.
It isn’t.
Tolerance is not a moral absolute; it is a peace treaty. Tolerance is a social norm because it allows different people to live side-by-side without being at each other’s throats. It means that we accept that people may be different from us, in their customs, in their behavior, in their dress, in their sex lives, and that if this doesn’t directly affect our lives, it is none of our business. But the model of a peace treaty differs from the model of a moral precept in one simple way: the protection of a peace treaty only extends to those willing to abide by its terms. It is an agreement to live in peace, not an agreement to be peaceful no matter the conduct of others. A peace treaty is not a suicide pact.
[...]
Interesting. From a Russian journalist.
Thanks, this is exactly what I was wondering about.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:07 AM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Thanks, this is exactly what I was wondering about.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:07 AM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Also from Kovalev:
If you live in US and want to preserve "Euro culture", you'll have to switch to kilometers, kilograms and centigrades. Sorry, no other way.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 9:09 AM on August 17, 2017 [41 favorites]
If you live in US and want to preserve "Euro culture", you'll have to switch to kilometers, kilograms and centigrades. Sorry, no other way.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 9:09 AM on August 17, 2017 [41 favorites]
America is still here. White people are still here. Neither culture has been wiped out or even threatened
Well yeah but arguably the civil war got started not cause the goverment was going to take away thier slaves but because of the fear they MIGHT (or even just not allow them to expand slavery into new territories)
Reactionary movements in America come from the same place, white people who have some means but are paranoid "those people" are going to take it away - this can even mean fearing possible equality cause it equates to them with losing something. Fascism is largely a middle to upper middle class phenomenon, at least in this country.
So while yes technically it's all still here, America has always remained hostage to white people scared of shadows and things that don't exist yet.
posted by The Whelk at 9:11 AM on August 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
Well yeah but arguably the civil war got started not cause the goverment was going to take away thier slaves but because of the fear they MIGHT (or even just not allow them to expand slavery into new territories)
Reactionary movements in America come from the same place, white people who have some means but are paranoid "those people" are going to take it away - this can even mean fearing possible equality cause it equates to them with losing something. Fascism is largely a middle to upper middle class phenomenon, at least in this country.
So while yes technically it's all still here, America has always remained hostage to white people scared of shadows and things that don't exist yet.
posted by The Whelk at 9:11 AM on August 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
I am way more than tired of opinion pieces awkwardly spread into multiple tweets.
If you're writing more than a couple lines, maybe that shouldn't be your platform of choice?
posted by FakeFreyja at 9:12 AM on August 17, 2017 [17 favorites]
If you're writing more than a couple lines, maybe that shouldn't be your platform of choice?
posted by FakeFreyja at 9:12 AM on August 17, 2017 [17 favorites]
If you're writing more than a couple lines, maybe that shouldn't be your platform of choice?
That's where the audience is.
posted by chris24 at 9:14 AM on August 17, 2017 [21 favorites]
That's where the audience is.
posted by chris24 at 9:14 AM on August 17, 2017 [21 favorites]
you live in US and want to preserve "Euro culture", you'll have to switch to kilometers, kilograms and centigrades. Sorry, no other way.
Couldn't favourite that quickly enough.
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:14 AM on August 17, 2017 [13 favorites]
Couldn't favourite that quickly enough.
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:14 AM on August 17, 2017 [13 favorites]
From the Lost Cause essay linked above (which really is exquisite and worth reading):
One of the questions in an exam administered to prospective citizens by the US Immigration and Naturalization service is: “The Civil War was fought over what important issue?” The right answer is either slavery or states’ rights.
All I can think of is Apu Nahasapeemapetilan and his overly earnest response about economic factors both domestic and international and even the Immigration bureaucrat giving him the test is like "slavery. just say slavery".
posted by saturday_morning at 9:16 AM on August 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
One of the questions in an exam administered to prospective citizens by the US Immigration and Naturalization service is: “The Civil War was fought over what important issue?” The right answer is either slavery or states’ rights.
All I can think of is Apu Nahasapeemapetilan and his overly earnest response about economic factors both domestic and international and even the Immigration bureaucrat giving him the test is like "slavery. just say slavery".
posted by saturday_morning at 9:16 AM on August 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
I am way more than tired of opinion pieces awkwardly spread into multiple tweets.
If you're writing more than a couple lines, maybe that shouldn't be your platform of choice?
I don't like them either and yet I am way more tired of people complaining about authors not delivering things in their publication mechanism of choice. The writers say that's where the audience is and they get more eyeballs/engagement that way. Those who dislike it can just keep walking
posted by phearlez at 9:16 AM on August 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
If you're writing more than a couple lines, maybe that shouldn't be your platform of choice?
I don't like them either and yet I am way more tired of people complaining about authors not delivering things in their publication mechanism of choice. The writers say that's where the audience is and they get more eyeballs/engagement that way. Those who dislike it can just keep walking
posted by phearlez at 9:16 AM on August 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
chris24, thanks for compiling those frequent informative tweetstorms into posts for MeFites like me who cannot handle twitter without devolving into a Skinner rat.
This though:
- Let's get smth straight:
1) Above doesn't mean a policy U-Turn bc there's no Trump policy in the first place
...Really? No Russian Trump policy in the first place? Besides the whole "get him elected" thing?
posted by schadenfrau at 9:17 AM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
This though:
- Let's get smth straight:
1) Above doesn't mean a policy U-Turn bc there's no Trump policy in the first place
...Really? No Russian Trump policy in the first place? Besides the whole "get him elected" thing?
posted by schadenfrau at 9:17 AM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
- Let's get smth straight:
1) Above doesn't mean a policy U-Turn bc there's no Trump policy in the first place
...Really? No Russian Trump policy in the first place? Besides the whole "get him elected" thing?
I take that to mean there was no strategy other than to diminish America, elect someone friendly to Russia. That there was no specific love for Trump as a person/politician beyond the opportunity he offered to do that and certainly no ongoing loyalty.
posted by chris24 at 9:21 AM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
1) Above doesn't mean a policy U-Turn bc there's no Trump policy in the first place
...Really? No Russian Trump policy in the first place? Besides the whole "get him elected" thing?
I take that to mean there was no strategy other than to diminish America, elect someone friendly to Russia. That there was no specific love for Trump as a person/politician beyond the opportunity he offered to do that and certainly no ongoing loyalty.
posted by chris24 at 9:21 AM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
chris24: Interesting. From a Russian journalist.
Short version: we tore out the breaks on this car, filled it with explosives and doused it liberally in gasoline, and now that it's starting to really heat up, we'll bail and let this deathtrap keep rolling down the hill, where it will likely blow up in a community center or grocery store. How could we have realized that we rigged this device for such glorious destruction? Oh noez!
On Daily Stormer's incursion into .ru: "This blackshirt scum has no place in Russia. Our country defeated fascism".
"But we're 100% against the gays, so if they drop the racism, we're back on the same team!"
posted by filthy light thief at 9:22 AM on August 17, 2017 [10 favorites]
Short version: we tore out the breaks on this car, filled it with explosives and doused it liberally in gasoline, and now that it's starting to really heat up, we'll bail and let this deathtrap keep rolling down the hill, where it will likely blow up in a community center or grocery store. How could we have realized that we rigged this device for such glorious destruction? Oh noez!
On Daily Stormer's incursion into .ru: "This blackshirt scum has no place in Russia. Our country defeated fascism".
"But we're 100% against the gays, so if they drop the racism, we're back on the same team!"
posted by filthy light thief at 9:22 AM on August 17, 2017 [10 favorites]
...Really? No Russian Trump policy in the first place? Besides the whole "get him elected" thing?
I took it to mean that there's no clear policy in place right now, because they never actually expected him to win and also he is fucknuts so they have no idea what to actually do with the guy.
posted by saturday_morning at 9:23 AM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
I took it to mean that there's no clear policy in place right now, because they never actually expected him to win and also he is fucknuts so they have no idea what to actually do with the guy.
posted by saturday_morning at 9:23 AM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
there was no specific love for Trump as a person/politician beyond the opportunity he offered and certainly no ongoing loyalty.
I mean, that's not exactly breaking news? We've seen a chorus of people saying that from day one.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 9:23 AM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
I mean, that's not exactly breaking news? We've seen a chorus of people saying that from day one.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 9:23 AM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
BTW, if you haven't read the letter from Ivanka Trump and Kushner's Rabbi, it's really worth a read. There are a lot of ways it could have been written that would have left more room for face-saving and ambiguity. As it stands, it's a pretty stunning indictment of two people who are, by definition, very prominent parishioners. It's hard to see them attending that shul again, although they have no shame, so perhaps.
FWIW, I that's referring to a zachlipton post on the "Unite The Right Descends..." thread.
Here's the twitter link from it.
I don't seen any indictment of Ivanka and Jared in that letter. He's troubled by the president's equivocation. That's not even an indictment of Trump, much less the Kushners.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 9:23 AM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
FWIW, I that's referring to a zachlipton post on the "Unite The Right Descends..." thread.
Here's the twitter link from it.
I don't seen any indictment of Ivanka and Jared in that letter. He's troubled by the president's equivocation. That's not even an indictment of Trump, much less the Kushners.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 9:23 AM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
I mean, that's not exactly breaking news? We've seen a chorus of people saying that from day one.
Oh I agree. Trump was always a tool, literally and figuratively. They'll discard him when it fits their needs.
posted by chris24 at 9:25 AM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oh I agree. Trump was always a tool, literally and figuratively. They'll discard him when it fits their needs.
posted by chris24 at 9:25 AM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
chris24: Above doesn't mean a policy U-Turn bc there's no Trump policy in the first place
While Putin had plenty of reasons to hate Hillary and back Trump, the fact Donny won was still probably a surprise to Putin. Why plan for something that's not going to happen?
posted by filthy light thief at 9:27 AM on August 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
While Putin had plenty of reasons to hate Hillary and back Trump, the fact Donny won was still probably a surprise to Putin. Why plan for something that's not going to happen?
posted by filthy light thief at 9:27 AM on August 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
It's just so perfectly fucking Trump to wax poetic about the irreplaceable artistic beauty of statues that are cheap, shoddy, generic hunks of mass-produced crap.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:28 AM on August 17, 2017 [80 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:28 AM on August 17, 2017 [80 favorites]
...Really? No Russian Trump policy in the first place? Besides the whole "get him elected" thing?
I think that the Russian policy was more "spread chaos and de-legitimize the system" in the first place. They "backed" Trump because from an operational perspective, his campaign was the most destabilizing thing and could be used to discredit Hillary and the election itself; whoever won, the Russian power structure has an American system in turmoil, inclined to eat itself for a few years. Trump may be in thrall to Russian interests due to money laundering/kompromat, but that doesn't mean Russian interests begin and end with Trump in power - from their view, he's a pawn and a means to an end.
This move looks like something big from the perspective of "Trump is a Russian puppet", but is - from my view - in complete keeping with the idea of spreading chaos and de-legitimization; the administration is floundering, under investigation, and the Neo-Nazi situation just keeps adding fuel to the fire. More uncertainty, more destabilization, more turmoil and an American political system that keeps consuming itself rather than focusing on what might be going on in the Russian sphere of influence.
posted by nubs at 9:29 AM on August 17, 2017 [11 favorites]
I think that the Russian policy was more "spread chaos and de-legitimize the system" in the first place. They "backed" Trump because from an operational perspective, his campaign was the most destabilizing thing and could be used to discredit Hillary and the election itself; whoever won, the Russian power structure has an American system in turmoil, inclined to eat itself for a few years. Trump may be in thrall to Russian interests due to money laundering/kompromat, but that doesn't mean Russian interests begin and end with Trump in power - from their view, he's a pawn and a means to an end.
This move looks like something big from the perspective of "Trump is a Russian puppet", but is - from my view - in complete keeping with the idea of spreading chaos and de-legitimization; the administration is floundering, under investigation, and the Neo-Nazi situation just keeps adding fuel to the fire. More uncertainty, more destabilization, more turmoil and an American political system that keeps consuming itself rather than focusing on what might be going on in the Russian sphere of influence.
posted by nubs at 9:29 AM on August 17, 2017 [11 favorites]
zachlipton: Since January, The Post reported, more than 105,000 immigrants have been deported, 42 percent of whom had no criminal record.
Related: They Got Hurt At Work — Then They Got Deported (NPR News Investigation by Michael Grabell and Howard Berkes, Aug. 16, 2017) -- undocumented people are still eligible for workers' compensation insurance, and over the years, nearly all 50 states, including Florida, have given these workers the right to receive workers' comp.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:36 AM on August 17, 2017 [38 favorites]
Related: They Got Hurt At Work — Then They Got Deported (NPR News Investigation by Michael Grabell and Howard Berkes, Aug. 16, 2017) -- undocumented people are still eligible for workers' compensation insurance, and over the years, nearly all 50 states, including Florida, have given these workers the right to receive workers' comp.
But in 2003, Florida's lawmakers added a catch, making it a crime to file a workers' comp claim using false identification. Since then, insurers have avoided paying for injured immigrant workers' lost wages and medical care by repeatedly turning them in to the state.We'll cover our eyes as you work for minimum wage doing jobs that many other people wouldn't do, but if you get injured doing those low-pay, usually very physical job, we'll deport you. Isn't the GOP the party of Christ? Where's the compassion? Oh right, they worship supply side Jesus.
...
In Ohio, Republican lawmakers pushed a bill that would have barred undocumented immigrants from getting workers' comp. It passed the state's House of Representatives before stalling in the Senate in June.
...
To assess the impact of Florida's law on undocumented workers, ProPublica and NPR analyzed 14 years of state insurance fraud data and thousands of pages of court records. We found nearly 800 cases statewide in which employees were arrested under the law, including at least 130 injured workers. An additional 125 workers were arrested after a workplace injury prompted the state to check the personnel records of other employees. Insurers have used the law to deny workers benefits after a litany of serious workplace injuries, from falls off roofs to severe electric shocks. A house painter was rejected after she was impaled on a wooden stake.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:36 AM on August 17, 2017 [38 favorites]
There's apparently been a terrorist attack in Spain, so brace yourselves for Twitter invectives.
posted by lydhre at 9:38 AM on August 17, 2017
posted by lydhre at 9:38 AM on August 17, 2017
A van has gotten on the pavement in Les Rambles in Barcelona. Spanish media have reported 2 dead, ~20 wounded.
posted by sukeban at 9:40 AM on August 17, 2017
posted by sukeban at 9:40 AM on August 17, 2017
More about Jack Posobiec's security clearance:
Jack Posobiec, Pizzagate and Seth Rich Conspiracy Theorist, Has Top Secret Security Clearance (James Laporta, The Daily Beast)
Jack Posobiec, Pizzagate and Seth Rich Conspiracy Theorist, Has Top Secret Security Clearance (James Laporta, The Daily Beast)
Malcolm Nance, a retired Navy senior chief petty officer and former member of the U.S. intelligence community, said Posobiec “and people like him are a danger because these people are literally a fifth column for Russian intelligence. They have weaponized their contributions and conspiracy theories in the culture war.posted by Room 641-A at 9:41 AM on August 17, 2017 [29 favorites]
“How he can hold a Top Secret clearance working actively in the intelligence community as a known factor in the information operations of the alt-right, which is essentially a war on media reality itself, shows that he quite possibly is one of the greatest security dangers to whatever organization he’s working on.”
More bluntly, Nance called Posobiec a “disgrace to the uniform” and said he wants the Navy to “explain how the fuck he still has access to classified information.” (emphasis mine mine mine.)
There are two suspects who have fled the van and apparently taken refuge in a bar near the Boqueria market. The police have located a second van intended for fleeing the scene, and are looking for the suspects. Some twitter sources apart from media are @policia (Spanish police force) and @mossos (Catalan police force, they are giving updates in English too)
I'm mainly going for the updates at El País here, but they are in Spanish.
posted by sukeban at 9:43 AM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm mainly going for the updates at El País here, but they are in Spanish.
posted by sukeban at 9:43 AM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Trump has aligned himself with the greatest hits of White Power defeats - The British Empire, Russia, Nazis and the Confederacy.
He feels most comfortable with losers.
posted by srboisvert at 9:45 AM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
He feels most comfortable with losers.
posted by srboisvert at 9:45 AM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
I don't seen any indictment of Ivanka and Jared in that letter. He's troubled by the president's equivocation. That's not even an indictment of Trump, much less the Kushners.
Here's the context in which I read it:
1) There are lots of ways to write this letter as a general thing that references only Charlottesville, with none of the aftermath.
2) The letter goes out of it's way to basically say that Trump is on the wrong side of history, after pointing out that they don't usually comment on political issues.
3) The language of the letter provides a pointed contrast to the language used by Trump, and does it in a way that makes clear his moral bankruptcy.
4) It doesn't mention I. Trump or Kushner by name, but everyone who reads the letter knows that they, and only they in this congregation, have stood up for the President as being not racist, not anti-Semitic, and a "good" person.
Sure, it doesn't say, "Fuck you and your Father/Father-in-Law," but it also doesn't say "We condemn these actions" full stop. It goes much further than that. It also references the RCA open letter which reads, in part,
There is also this deep reading by Joe in Australia, which I think is quite good.
posted by OmieWise at 9:45 AM on August 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
Here's the context in which I read it:
1) There are lots of ways to write this letter as a general thing that references only Charlottesville, with none of the aftermath.
2) The letter goes out of it's way to basically say that Trump is on the wrong side of history, after pointing out that they don't usually comment on political issues.
3) The language of the letter provides a pointed contrast to the language used by Trump, and does it in a way that makes clear his moral bankruptcy.
4) It doesn't mention I. Trump or Kushner by name, but everyone who reads the letter knows that they, and only they in this congregation, have stood up for the President as being not racist, not anti-Semitic, and a "good" person.
Sure, it doesn't say, "Fuck you and your Father/Father-in-Law," but it also doesn't say "We condemn these actions" full stop. It goes much further than that. It also references the RCA open letter which reads, in part,
While you were on the front line of ugly manifestations of hatred and bigotry that led to death, intimidation, and fear; while there were calls to burn down your synagogue; and while you were eyewitnesses to the worst expressions of intolerance in our society, we were all under attack. When you are threatened, we are all threatened. When you are hurt, we all hurt. Know that you are not alone.I'm not suggesting that it's some huge profile in courage, but I do think it's speaking truth to power, and I doubt that anyone in the congregation is having any trouble parsing it.
We add our voices to yours in condemning these manifestations, supporting those in political and religious leadership denouncing them, and call on all leaders and people of good will and faith to name and reject unequivocally and without qualification the views and actions of White Supremacists, neo-Nazis, the alt-right, and their supporters. We mourn with you the victims of this domestic terrorism: Heather Heyer, Lt. H. Jay Cullen, and trooper-pilot Berke M.M. Bates.
There is also this deep reading by Joe in Australia, which I think is quite good.
posted by OmieWise at 9:45 AM on August 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
I was SOO disappointed in BBCR4 news on this, they ennumerated all the van/car attacks recently and didn't once include Charlottlesville....WTF? Why are we still normalising domestic terrorism?
posted by Wilder at 9:46 AM on August 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Wilder at 9:46 AM on August 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
He feels most comfortable with losers.
It's cause losers are some of the only people that will have him or find him useful.
posted by Jalliah at 9:49 AM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's cause losers are some of the only people that will have him or find him useful.
posted by Jalliah at 9:49 AM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
At least ten people dead in Barcelona.
The mossos confirm that they're thinking of this as a terrorist attack.
posted by sukeban at 9:51 AM on August 17, 2017
The mossos confirm that they're thinking of this as a terrorist attack.
posted by sukeban at 9:51 AM on August 17, 2017
Why did that statue in Durham fall over so easy? Because most of these confederate statutes were the 1920s equivalents of mass produced plastic happy meal toys. Only with more white supremacy.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:52 AM on August 17, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:52 AM on August 17, 2017 [30 favorites]
Christ, at least 13 dead, witness reports that it reached 80km before impacting patients, my heart is with all healthcare professionals seeing this level of trauma, recently a paramedic friend of mine has a scary PTSD flashback about the London stabbings that made me really think of the other longer term victims of these outrageous assaults on humans...
I'm one of the few Irish ppl who speaks catala, and I know so many Irish in Barca..... The Catalanes venerate a previous Lord Mayor of my home town Cork City...who died on Hunger strike during the period of our....disengagement...with the colonial power.... theres' a huge Irish/Catalan connection
getting no responses from phone calls texts so I'm stopping as clearly everyone in their fam group is prob trying to contact them too
posted by Wilder at 9:54 AM on August 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
I'm one of the few Irish ppl who speaks catala, and I know so many Irish in Barca..... The Catalanes venerate a previous Lord Mayor of my home town Cork City...who died on Hunger strike during the period of our....disengagement...with the colonial power.... theres' a huge Irish/Catalan connection
getting no responses from phone calls texts so I'm stopping as clearly everyone in their fam group is prob trying to contact them too
posted by Wilder at 9:54 AM on August 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
Cjelli, most reports I can find are calling it terrorism, though nobody is speculating on who the perpetrators might be yet. I don't think it's necessarily premature to call it an intentional act. (I might be emotional about it, my info is also coming from a very good friend who narrowly missed being there and is now sheltering tourists in his apartment).
posted by lydhre at 9:56 AM on August 17, 2017
posted by lydhre at 9:56 AM on August 17, 2017
67% of Republicans approve of how he's handled Charlottesville. 68% agree with Trump in blaming both sides.
Given that we started at 90% approval of the fucker a year ago, I am happy that we are now down to 67%. That's 33% of the party that's done with the fucker. That matters, because undercutting support is a long-term process. I wish it were much higher than 33%, but I'm still happy it's bigger than it was.
posted by corb at 9:56 AM on August 17, 2017 [17 favorites]
Given that we started at 90% approval of the fucker a year ago, I am happy that we are now down to 67%. That's 33% of the party that's done with the fucker. That matters, because undercutting support is a long-term process. I wish it were much higher than 33%, but I'm still happy it's bigger than it was.
posted by corb at 9:56 AM on August 17, 2017 [17 favorites]
I am happy that we are now down to 67%
That's 67% of the people who still readily identify as Republicans.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 10:03 AM on August 17, 2017 [20 favorites]
That's 67% of the people who still readily identify as Republicans.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 10:03 AM on August 17, 2017 [20 favorites]
...Really? No Russian Trump policy in the first place? Besides the whole "get him elected" thing?
....Wait.
Trump is on the hook to Russian mobsters for loans, right? ....What if they made him President to PUNISH him for not paying up?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:07 AM on August 17, 2017 [20 favorites]
....Wait.
Trump is on the hook to Russian mobsters for loans, right? ....What if they made him President to PUNISH him for not paying up?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:07 AM on August 17, 2017 [20 favorites]
EmpressCallipygos, that sounds like a great premise for a movie. Who is the Russian version of the Coen Brothers?
posted by Rykey at 10:11 AM on August 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Rykey at 10:11 AM on August 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
It's still early and a lot of details aren't known yet, but while the van in Barcelona struck a number of targets, it ended up in front of a Kosher restaurant (and a Turkish restaurant, because this is Barcelona after all).
posted by zachlipton at 10:12 AM on August 17, 2017
posted by zachlipton at 10:12 AM on August 17, 2017
Following defeat in the 2012 election, the Republican National Committee released an “autopsy report” offering recommendations for growing the party and improving its dismal standing with minorities and young people. Trump ignored much of that guidance and won anyway. But after the president this week insisted that there were “very fine people” among those who violently marched at a white supremacist rally, many Republicans fear that Trump is reinforcing the same negative perceptions about the party that they have spent years working to combat.What. A fucking. JOKE. Literally THE ENTIRE GOP ignored the guidance from the autopsy report! That wasn't something new and unique that Trump brought to the table.
“Our plan is to reach out and talk to people who haven’t always agreed with us,” said Emmanuel Wilder, a North Carolina-based activist with the Young Republican National Federation. Trump’s comments, he said, make it that much harder. “It’s a major step back. The fact that the head of the party cannot call a spade a spade, it hurts…it’s near impossible for us to try to explain. It’s not really explainable.”I mean, really? He's actually hurt? Has he met his own party? The same party that has been dogwhistling race issues for decades and not even really trying to hide it since 2008? Does he remember all the Obama/muslim/terrorist/birther/etc things?
Hey GOP, the rot is coming from the inside. This is not something new that started with Trump and it won't go away with him either. Most people who have spent more than five minutes thinking about this realize it, but there are a hell of a lot of people who apparently believe the hype that the GOP is somehow still this party of compassionate conservative or whatever the fuck, including their own members. This is why, as scary as Trump is, Mike Pence or Paul Ryan or whoever is just as scary, because they provide a veneer of respectability and plausible deniability and the GOP will eat that right up. The right wing mediasphere is keeping themselves busy serving up talking points for Trump's misdeeds that are being swallowed whole by the base, no matter how fucking fantastical (Russia's not so bad, Putin is doing us a favor, what about George Washington? etc.) They are enabling people to excuse literally everything he does, no matter how bad.
Most of the GOP will never abandon their own, even when they have to engage in some seriously tortured logic to continue to support them. They would LOVE to have a more establishment type who will provide them an easy air of plausible deniability for their rampaging racism, sexism and homophobia and not make them have to work too hard to try to counter statements and actions that are, by any objective standard, racist, sexist and homophobic. It doesn't matter if Pence was a terrible governor with underwater approval ratings. In Trump-adjusted terms, he's practically Saint Reagan. We underestimate how easily the right wing media can manipulate their consumers to believe anything under the sun, and also how eager the consumers are to swallow it.
When Trump leaves, we'll be left with the same party, with the same beliefs, but it will be much harder to counter or resist them. Because they'll dress up their bigotry and make it look like states rights and Christianity and personal responsibility and patriotism, etc. The same thing they've been doing forever. And the base will roar with approval.
posted by triggerfinger at 10:17 AM on August 17, 2017 [31 favorites]
(and a Turkish restaurant, because this is Barcelona after all).
To be fair, Turkish restaurants are a universal feature of cities.
posted by acb at 10:18 AM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
To be fair, Turkish restaurants are a universal feature of cities.
posted by acb at 10:18 AM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Anthony Zurcher/BBC News: A White House meltdown in the making
While some - like The National Review - have largely remained in the #neverTrump camp, the Federalist had often come to the president's defence. Until now.posted by ZeusHumms at 10:18 AM on August 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
"I don't think Trump is going to resign any time soon," says Robert Tracinski, a senior writer for the website. "But he needs to be left hanging out there all on his own without support from anyone in his party (or from anyone in the right-leaning media). He is a vortex of destruction, and the only way to survive is to get everything we love as far away from him as possible."
- "Does Trump expect us to just pat him on the back every time, no matter how vile his actions? Does he think Russia is a fascist state?"
I mean, it's not not a fascist state
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:21 AM on August 17, 2017 [14 favorites]
I mean, it's not not a fascist state
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:21 AM on August 17, 2017 [14 favorites]
To be fair, Turkish restaurants are a universal feature of cities.
I see from your profile you're in the UK. Here in Baltimore, I'd punch a Nazi for a kebab.
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:23 AM on August 17, 2017 [17 favorites]
I see from your profile you're in the UK. Here in Baltimore, I'd punch a Nazi for a kebab.
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:23 AM on August 17, 2017 [17 favorites]
"But he needs to be left hanging out there all on his own without support from anyone in his party (or from anyone in the right-leaning media). He is a vortex of destruction, and the only way to survive is to get everything we love as far away from him as possible."
Huh. From my perspective, it's important to keep reminding people which feckless fuckers stayed with him until they felt the vortex was too big and then tried to cut their loses.
posted by nubs at 10:25 AM on August 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
Huh. From my perspective, it's important to keep reminding people which feckless fuckers stayed with him until they felt the vortex was too big and then tried to cut their loses.
posted by nubs at 10:25 AM on August 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
> "All these folks worried about erasing history when the Confederate statues come down will be thrilled to learn about the existence of books.
That's a great one-liner, but I think a lot of these folks worried about erasing history when the Confederate statues come down will be appalled to learn about the existence of books.
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:27 AM on August 17, 2017 [27 favorites]
That's a great one-liner, but I think a lot of these folks worried about erasing history when the Confederate statues come down will be appalled to learn about the existence of books.
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:27 AM on August 17, 2017 [27 favorites]
Re "gun accessories explicitly for killing muslims," this may refer to an AR-15 "Crusader" tactical rifle with Bible verses engraved.
posted by stillmoving at 10:27 AM on August 17, 2017
posted by stillmoving at 10:27 AM on August 17, 2017
Huh. From my perspective, it's important to keep reminding people which feckless fuckers stayed with him until they felt the vortex was too big and then tried to cut their loses.
Yeah, this feels incredibly self-serving from a bunch of shitstains that run a nasty, bigoted rag that might as well be considered white supremacist literature itself.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:28 AM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yeah, this feels incredibly self-serving from a bunch of shitstains that run a nasty, bigoted rag that might as well be considered white supremacist literature itself.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:28 AM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
I mean, it's not not a fascist state
This is actually an interesting point, Putins rhetoric casts the West, the EU and US as "the fascists", directly linking the modern EU to Nazi Germany. While of course Putin is the white light and defender of Orthodox Christendom. We could acurately call whatever the Russian governmental form today is fascist, or totalitarian, or a kleptocracy is probably most accurate. But one imagines that Trump openly defending actual Nazis after Putin has all but publicly taken credit for electing him would be problematic for the domestic propaganda.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:28 AM on August 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
This is actually an interesting point, Putins rhetoric casts the West, the EU and US as "the fascists", directly linking the modern EU to Nazi Germany. While of course Putin is the white light and defender of Orthodox Christendom. We could acurately call whatever the Russian governmental form today is fascist, or totalitarian, or a kleptocracy is probably most accurate. But one imagines that Trump openly defending actual Nazis after Putin has all but publicly taken credit for electing him would be problematic for the domestic propaganda.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:28 AM on August 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
Statue repurposing idea (via twitter): Here's what Paraguayans did with a statue of dictator Alfredo Stroessner (1954-89). It's an interesting compromise.
There’s some background on Stroessner and the statue in that twitter feed, but it’s cool to see some wider shots of the statue for fuller head-smushing effect too.
posted by miles per flower at 10:30 AM on August 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
There’s some background on Stroessner and the statue in that twitter feed, but it’s cool to see some wider shots of the statue for fuller head-smushing effect too.
posted by miles per flower at 10:30 AM on August 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
Russia of course backs the shit out of fascism wherever it finds it.
posted by Artw at 10:33 AM on August 17, 2017
posted by Artw at 10:33 AM on August 17, 2017
Matthew Yglesias/Vox: 7 things Republicans could do to check Trump without ditching conservative policy
It’s not that hard, but so far they just haven’t wanted to.posted by ZeusHumms at 10:34 AM on August 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
... The politically worst thing that could happen to a Republican member of Congress who chose to make a substantive effort to rein in Donald Trump’s racism and corruption is that he or she would lose a congressional seat in a primary. The United States of America, fortunately, is not filled with homeless and destitute former members of Congress. On the contrary, members get generous pension benefits and normally enjoy lucrative post-legislative employment opportunities in America’s burgeoning lobbying sector.
AR-15 "Crusader" tactical rifle with Bible verses engraved
/rolls eyes, jack off motion.
posted by Artw at 10:34 AM on August 17, 2017 [26 favorites]
/rolls eyes, jack off motion.
posted by Artw at 10:34 AM on August 17, 2017 [26 favorites]
CNN: Rohrabacher wants to brief Trump on Assange meeting. He told the OC Register that Assange told him Russia had nothing to do with any DNC hacking, but as for details, Rep. Rohrabacher would only say "I have some information to give the president before I give information to anyone else."
Trump's own CIA director previously had this to say about the guy:
Trump's own CIA director previously had this to say about the guy:
"It is time to call out WikiLeaks for what it really is," he said, "a non-state hostile intelligence service often abetted by state actors like Russia. In January of this year, our Intelligence Community determined that Russian military intelligence — the GRU — had used WikiLeaks to release data of U.S. victims that the GRU had obtained through cyber operations against the Democratic National Committee. And the report also found that Russia's primary propaganda outlet, RT, has actively collaborated with WikiLeaks."posted by zachlipton at 10:34 AM on August 17, 2017 [26 favorites]
Philip Bump, WaPo: Now you can see what Donald Trump sees every time he opens Twitter
For all of the work John Kelly has put into his new role as White House chief of staff, instituting new limits on whom President Trump speaks with and what information he sees, Trump has an escape hatch: his phone. Put limits on who can reach Trump at the White House? Fine, but then Trump just calls them from his cell later that night. Limit the data that lands on his desk? Great, until he fires up Twitter and sees whatever he wants to see. (Twitter, Axios reported in May, is the only app on his phone.) […]posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:35 AM on August 17, 2017 [26 favorites]
Users of Twitter will understand, however, that it can be tricky to know what someone else sees when he or she fires up the application. Everyone follows a different group of people, and that colors the information they receive.
To that end, we’ve created @trumps_feed, an account that checks whom Trump follows every five minutes and then retweets any new tweets from them over that period. The net result is a replication of what Trump would see on those occasions that he switches over from the Mentions tab.
TPM's Josh Marshall:
The Bomb Bursts. It Will Keep Happening.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:35 AM on August 17, 2017 [46 favorites]
The Bomb Bursts. It Will Keep Happening.
Everything we are seeing stems almost inevitably from the decisions the country made, collectively, last November. We elected a President driven by white racial grievance. That is the fulcrum and driving force of his politics. It’s no surprise that a big outbreak of white supremacist violence would lead us to a moment like this. We also elected a President who is an abuser and a predator. I’ve analogized him before to an abusive man in an abused household – only his house is now the country, now with all the cumulative exhaustion, warped perceptions and damage that are the common lot of people living with and trapped with violent predators, addicts or people with certain profound mental illnesses.We're living in very dangerous times. Duder needs to be removed from office, full stop. Pence is terrible, but I also trust that he won't immediately destroy everything he can in an orgy of onanistic rage.
As things get worse, as more people turn against him, Trump gets more wild and unbridled.He lashes out more aggressively. There’s no kill switch on this escalating aggression. It only builds. [...]
Trump will clearly, happily destroy the GOP if he feels the party has proven disloyal to him. Given what’s happened, it would be richly deserved. But Trump’s greatest powers are not as head of the GOP but as head of state of the country. He would happily destroy the country too to sate his own anguished feelings of betrayal. Sound hyperbolic? Why would the pattern be any different written on so large a canvass?
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:35 AM on August 17, 2017 [46 favorites]
I am wondering if there has been any news on the Mercer's these days?
posted by yoga at 10:38 AM on August 17, 2017
posted by yoga at 10:38 AM on August 17, 2017
From the BBC link - Carl Berstein a couple of days ago:
1/3) Important Republicans/conservs/Intel-military hi-ups increasingly saying in private that @realDonaldTrump is unfit to be president.
2/3) BC of lack of ethics, competence, ‘temperament/stability.’
(3/3)—Reporters should find out how pervasive such talk may be.
(emphasis mine)
posted by adamvasco at 10:42 AM on August 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
1/3) Important Republicans/conservs/Intel-military hi-ups increasingly saying in private that @realDonaldTrump is unfit to be president.
2/3) BC of lack of ethics, competence, ‘temperament/stability.’
(3/3)—Reporters should find out how pervasive such talk may be.
(emphasis mine)
posted by adamvasco at 10:42 AM on August 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
Re "gun accessories explicitly for killing muslims," this may refer to an AR-15 "Crusader" tactical rifle with Bible verses engraved.
Somehow, incredibly, this is even stupider than I imagined.
posted by Behemoth at 10:42 AM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Somehow, incredibly, this is even stupider than I imagined.
posted by Behemoth at 10:42 AM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Re "gun accessories explicitly for killing muslims," this may refer to an AR-15 "Crusader" tactical rifle with Bible verses engraved.
Hilarious. It's not even engraved, just paint or decals. Nothing actually anti-Muslim about the verse, and any Jihadi would be glad to kill infidels with that sentiment in mind. The font is kinda dogwhistle, though.
From 2010: U.S. Military Weapons Inscribed With Secret 'Jesus' Bible Codes
posted by ActingTheGoat at 10:45 AM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Hilarious. It's not even engraved, just paint or decals. Nothing actually anti-Muslim about the verse, and any Jihadi would be glad to kill infidels with that sentiment in mind. The font is kinda dogwhistle, though.
From 2010: U.S. Military Weapons Inscribed With Secret 'Jesus' Bible Codes
posted by ActingTheGoat at 10:45 AM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
To that end, we’ve created @trumps_feed
Jesus Tap Dancing Christ what a harrowing echo chamber of scrolling hatred.
posted by mcstayinskool at 10:46 AM on August 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
Jesus Tap Dancing Christ what a harrowing echo chamber of scrolling hatred.
posted by mcstayinskool at 10:46 AM on August 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
I am way more than tired of opinion pieces awkwardly spread into multiple tweets.
If you're writing more than a couple lines, maybe that shouldn't be your platform of choice?
...and if you're copying them into a MeFi comment how about you format them into a readable paragraph ffs.
posted by HyperBlue at 10:47 AM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
If you're writing more than a couple lines, maybe that shouldn't be your platform of choice?
...and if you're copying them into a MeFi comment how about you format them into a readable paragraph ffs.
posted by HyperBlue at 10:47 AM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Jesus Rifles
Company offers to stop putting biblical references on military scopes
posted by ActingTheGoat at 10:47 AM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Company offers to stop putting biblical references on military scopes
posted by ActingTheGoat at 10:47 AM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Rep. Steve Cohen (D-TN) to introduce articles of impeachment over Charlottesville.
posted by saturday_morning at 10:54 AM on August 17, 2017 [73 favorites]
posted by saturday_morning at 10:54 AM on August 17, 2017 [73 favorites]
Jesus Tap Dancing Christ what a harrowing echo chamber of scrolling hatred.
even better, that's where he goes for "the facts" about things like last weekend
posted by thelonius at 10:57 AM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
even better, that's where he goes for "the facts" about things like last weekend
posted by thelonius at 10:57 AM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Wow. His racist press conference wasn't even original, or his own thoughts. Just his watching of Fox in the last few days regurgitated.
posted by rc3spencer at 10:58 AM on August 17, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by rc3spencer at 10:58 AM on August 17, 2017 [14 favorites]
Rep. Steve Cohen (D-TN) to introduce articles of impeachment over Charlottesville.
I just said "WHOA!" so loud that people in three neighboring offices just poked their heads out the door to look.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:59 AM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
I just said "WHOA!" so loud that people in three neighboring offices just poked their heads out the door to look.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:59 AM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
> Rep. Steve Cohen (D-TN) to introduce articles of impeachment over Charlottesville.
Now *that's* how you fucking do it, Democrats.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:01 AM on August 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
Now *that's* how you fucking do it, Democrats.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:01 AM on August 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
Articles of impeachment won't mean anything unless they come from a Republican leader like Paul Ryan or Kevin McCarthy.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 11:02 AM on August 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 11:02 AM on August 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
Rep. Steve Cohen (D-TN) to introduce articles of impeachment over Charlottesville.
Meh. Call me back when you've got the R leadership behind it. This is about as effective as *my* introducing articles of impeachment.
(on preview what JpFed said).
posted by dis_integration at 11:03 AM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Meh. Call me back when you've got the R leadership behind it. This is about as effective as *my* introducing articles of impeachment.
(on preview what JpFed said).
posted by dis_integration at 11:03 AM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Two other reps filed articles of impeachment in July. It's an important step, but it's nothing unless it's going somewhere, and as of right now, it's not.
USA Today's call for censure does strike me as a significant occasion. If the voice of the heartland and the nation's airport hotels is comfortable with that, maybe there's the slimmest chance it could happen, maybe.
posted by zachlipton at 11:05 AM on August 17, 2017 [23 favorites]
USA Today's call for censure does strike me as a significant occasion. If the voice of the heartland and the nation's airport hotels is comfortable with that, maybe there's the slimmest chance it could happen, maybe.
posted by zachlipton at 11:05 AM on August 17, 2017 [23 favorites]
Articles of impeachment won't mean anything unless they come from a Republican leader like Paul Ryan or Kevin McCarthy.
Even when nothing comes of it, it means that at least today Cohen is doing a good job representing the people of Memphis.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:06 AM on August 17, 2017 [39 favorites]
Even when nothing comes of it, it means that at least today Cohen is doing a good job representing the people of Memphis.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:06 AM on August 17, 2017 [39 favorites]
Steve Cohen is my congressman, so it's like I get to vicariously try to impeach Trump myself!
posted by Huffy Puffy at 11:08 AM on August 17, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by Huffy Puffy at 11:08 AM on August 17, 2017 [19 favorites]
Seen online:
Dear God,posted by darkstar at 11:09 AM on August 17, 2017 [112 favorites]
If you want us to impeach President Trump, please send us a sign. Like maybe blot out the sun or something. Perhaps in the next week. In a swath from sea to shining sea, just so it's really obvious.
Sincerely,
Americans
I'm glad USA Today said what it said, but as far as it being the "voice of the heartland" and airport hotels, we should remember that basically none of the major papers across the country endorsed Trump. He lost Republican editorial boards in red states. Yet here we are.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:09 AM on August 17, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:09 AM on August 17, 2017 [12 favorites]
Forgive me if this has already been posted (searching for various keywords hasn't turned anything up) but: 2 sisters in Charlottesville sue far-right leaders over car attack
posted by Existential Dread at 11:09 AM on August 17, 2017 [33 favorites]
The suit was filed with the Circuit Court in Charlottesville by Tadrint Washington and her sister Micah Washington, who said they were physically and emotionally injured when a man the police have identified as James Alex Fields Jr., 20, of Ohio, plowed his Dodge Challenger into a throng of people who were protesting the “Unite the Right” rally Saturday. Heather D. Heyer, 32, was killed, and several others were injured.Named in the suit are Richard Spencer, Jason Kessler, and David Duke, among others. The sisters are seeking $3M, and I would guess that this is the first of many. If these assholes won't face charges, then hopefully they will get bankrupted.
posted by Existential Dread at 11:09 AM on August 17, 2017 [33 favorites]
> Articles of impeachment won't mean anything unless they come from a Republican leader like Paul Ryan or Kevin McCarthy.
> Meh. Call me back when you've got the R leadership behind it. This is about as effective as *my* introducing articles of impeachment.
I already responded to this argument above. There are no circumstances under which Republicans would be the ones initiating impeachment. There is a chance, however slight, of giving Republicans who would like this shitshow to go away something to get behind. Every single impeachable offense should get a brand new articles of impeachment.
And, on preview, ROU makes a great point about it signaling to his constituents. I'd add his colleagues to that list as well -- if a Tennessee Democrat can do it (yes, I know his district is bright blue), why can't Democrats in California, New York, and Pennsylvania follow suit? And if they can, why can't Republicans in purple districts at least think about the point at which they'd get on board?
The GOP has cleaned our clocks with this same strategy of constant pressure to push the bounds of acceptable debate. Why can't it work for us?
posted by tonycpsu at 11:10 AM on August 17, 2017 [40 favorites]
> Meh. Call me back when you've got the R leadership behind it. This is about as effective as *my* introducing articles of impeachment.
I already responded to this argument above. There are no circumstances under which Republicans would be the ones initiating impeachment. There is a chance, however slight, of giving Republicans who would like this shitshow to go away something to get behind. Every single impeachable offense should get a brand new articles of impeachment.
And, on preview, ROU makes a great point about it signaling to his constituents. I'd add his colleagues to that list as well -- if a Tennessee Democrat can do it (yes, I know his district is bright blue), why can't Democrats in California, New York, and Pennsylvania follow suit? And if they can, why can't Republicans in purple districts at least think about the point at which they'd get on board?
The GOP has cleaned our clocks with this same strategy of constant pressure to push the bounds of acceptable debate. Why can't it work for us?
posted by tonycpsu at 11:10 AM on August 17, 2017 [40 favorites]
...in 1860 American slaves, as a financial asset, were worth approximately three and a half billion dollars — that's just as property. Three and a half billion dollars was the net worth, roughly, of slaves in 1860. In today's dollars that would be approximately seventy-five billion dollars. In 1860 slaves as an asset were worth more than all of America's manufacturing, all of the railroads, all of the productive capacity of the United States put together. Slaves were the single largest, by far, financial asset of property in the entire American economy. The only thing worth more than the slaves in the American economy of the 1850s was the land itself, and no one can really put a dollar value on all of the land of North America. If you're looking to begin to understand why the South will begin to defend this system, and defend this society, and worry about it shrinking, and worry about a political culture from the North that is really beginning to criticize them, think three and a half billion dollars and the largest financial asset in American society, and what you might even try to compare that to today.-- Yale History Professor David Blight
posted by kirkaracha at 11:15 AM on August 17, 2017 [30 favorites]
This is a really interesting column from BuzzFeed's editor-in-chief Ben Smith about what Steve Bannon is up to, the Democratic Party, and race vs class: Steve Bannon's Fantasy, Donald Trump's Reality : "Squint at Trump and see a class warrior; open your eyes and see race." I'll give you this pullquote, but an excerpt doesn't really do it justice.
Bonus: Sen. Corker (R-TN) about Trump: "He has not demonstrated that he understands what makes this nation great and what it is today." More like this from Republicans please.
posted by zachlipton at 11:17 AM on August 17, 2017 [26 favorites]
Kuttner left his conversation with Bannon wondering about this particular point. “More puzzling is the fact that Bannon would phone a writer and editor of a progressive publication … and assume that a possible convergence of views on China trade might somehow paper over the political and moral chasm on white nationalism,” he said. Bannon might be forgiven by being puzzled that liberals who spent their careers fighting the class war would let a little thing like white nationalism get in their way.That Bannon would choose White Supremacist Week to double down on his "it's really about class, stupid" argument to The American Prospect is fantastically tasteless timing, but it's not an accident. It's what Bannon has always wanted.
But this is where class-based movements in American politics have always washed up. For race has trumped class. And what Bannon used to talk about as a strategy can probably better be seen now as the excuse, explanation, or diagnosis for a presidency that’s failing.
Bonus: Sen. Corker (R-TN) about Trump: "He has not demonstrated that he understands what makes this nation great and what it is today." More like this from Republicans please.
posted by zachlipton at 11:17 AM on August 17, 2017 [26 favorites]
Re: Russia, Trump and Nazism. Bear in mind that Putin was born in the midst of the Nazi blockade of Leningrad. Russians in general have very strong feelings about Nazis, considering the tremendous sacrifice they made to defeat them, but it's a subject very close to Putin's heart. I do not expect he's very pleased with Trump right now.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 11:18 AM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 11:18 AM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
I have only just found out about Peter Serafinowicz doing different drumpf voices in a bunch of videos, but matching exactly his timing. They're amazing! Here's one of the latest, on North Korea.
posted by numaner at 11:24 AM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by numaner at 11:24 AM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
If you think that Putin's anti-fascist feelings even register on the same scale as his desire to destabilize the US and boost his own power, I have a Tsar Bell to sell you.
posted by Behemoth at 11:25 AM on August 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Behemoth at 11:25 AM on August 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
Ugh is that guy STILL doing gay voice over Trump? Fuuuuuuuuuuck that.
posted by yellowbinder at 11:27 AM on August 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by yellowbinder at 11:27 AM on August 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
Re: Russia, Trump and Nazism. Bear in mind that Putin was born in the midst of the Nazi blockade of Leningrad.
Putin was born in 1952.
posted by notyou at 11:27 AM on August 17, 2017 [12 favorites]
Putin was born in 1952.
posted by notyou at 11:27 AM on August 17, 2017 [12 favorites]
I really like Serafinowicz's work in general and I'm sure that that specific schtick would annoy Trump if he were to watch it, but I find the Sassy Trump thing pretty uncomfortable because everything about it that's supposed to play into mocking Trump is just riffing on classic homophobic tropes. No ding on you for the instinct, numaner, because his dubbing work is really really good, but I feel like it's something he's stumbled on here in thinking about who actually will end up consuming the work and what sort of crappy splash damage effects it'll have.
posted by cortex at 11:27 AM on August 17, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by cortex at 11:27 AM on August 17, 2017 [28 favorites]
Barcelona update: the media report that the main suspect has been arrested (a Moroccan guy who had lived in Marseille before living for a while in Ripoll near BCN and to the surprise of nobody had antecedents for DV), and the situation at the restaurant near the Boqueria has been resolved. Casualty count is now 13 dead and over 50 wounded.
If someone has been stranded, Barcelona taxis and Cabify are transporting affected people for free. Turismo de Barcelona has announced that hotels will be offering shelter to tourists who can't access their lodgings.
posted by sukeban at 11:28 AM on August 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
If someone has been stranded, Barcelona taxis and Cabify are transporting affected people for free. Turismo de Barcelona has announced that hotels will be offering shelter to tourists who can't access their lodgings.
posted by sukeban at 11:28 AM on August 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
Putin's a fascist, went out of his way to install a fascist here, and operates a firehose of monetary and propaganda support for any and all fascist causes worldwide. If he's having his people make a fuss about Trump's fascism now it's because he thinks he can get something out of it, not because he objects in any way to Nazxis. If you think he is in any way actually upset by fascism you're living in a dreamworld.
posted by Artw at 11:29 AM on August 17, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by Artw at 11:29 AM on August 17, 2017 [30 favorites]
Here's the FPP about the Barcelona attack(s), sukeban.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:32 AM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 11:32 AM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Putin was born in 1952
Wow, my bad. Don't know wtf I was thinking.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 11:33 AM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Wow, my bad. Don't know wtf I was thinking.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 11:33 AM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Articles of impeachment won't mean anything unless they come from a Republican leader like Paul Ryan or Kevin McCarthy.
They won't mean anything legislatively, but I agree with the others who are saying they're important and meaningful for the country. Introducing AOIs gets the idea spoken aloud and into the larger discussion, shows people the Dems in Congress are willing to walk the walk, signals to people targeted by white supremacists that somebody with power is fighting for them, and boosts the anti-Trump public's resolve to resist and work for change.
On top of all that, it'd just be nice to see a sane idea normalized by being proposed and repeated, and to have an answer in the future when people ask, "Christ, did anybody try to do anything to stop that guy?"
The religious right weren't afraid to be on the losing side for a long time before making big gains, and I'm really ready for the Dems to take a page from their playbook.
posted by Rykey at 11:36 AM on August 17, 2017 [29 favorites]
They won't mean anything legislatively, but I agree with the others who are saying they're important and meaningful for the country. Introducing AOIs gets the idea spoken aloud and into the larger discussion, shows people the Dems in Congress are willing to walk the walk, signals to people targeted by white supremacists that somebody with power is fighting for them, and boosts the anti-Trump public's resolve to resist and work for change.
On top of all that, it'd just be nice to see a sane idea normalized by being proposed and repeated, and to have an answer in the future when people ask, "Christ, did anybody try to do anything to stop that guy?"
The religious right weren't afraid to be on the losing side for a long time before making big gains, and I'm really ready for the Dems to take a page from their playbook.
posted by Rykey at 11:36 AM on August 17, 2017 [29 favorites]
But I'll stand by what I said about Putin and literal Nazis. Putin is a horrible authoritarian undermining the American system, but I guarantee you that he, like any other Russian, is appalled by Nazism for a lot of immediate historical reasons. This isn't fantastical conjecture; it is a deeply engrained part of Russian culture, and it borders on insulting to its people to suggest even someone as repugnant as he is doesn't care about Nazism.
Maybe this sounds like a weird request, to refrain from that implication. It just really hits home for me and I think it's inaccurate and disgusting.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 11:40 AM on August 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
Maybe this sounds like a weird request, to refrain from that implication. It just really hits home for me and I think it's inaccurate and disgusting.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 11:40 AM on August 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
Good thread here by Nate Igor Smith on how the Juggalo March shouldn't be a laughing matter, and should be something those concerned with civil rights should support:
Okay, it’s time to talk about the Juggalo March On Washington. This is a real thing that is happening on September 16th. People are already laughing at it and think the march is a joke but if you care about civil rights you might want to take it seriously. Juggalos are marching on Washington because the FBI classified juggalos as a gang. Anyone who as spent five minutes trying to understand juggalos would see they aren’t a gang. It’s an insane notion. It’s like saying the KISS Army is a gang or Deadheads or anything els. It’s fucking silly as hell. However, this gang classification has serious as impact for juggalos who tend to be poor and undereducated already.posted by zombieflanders at 11:41 AM on August 17, 2017 [150 favorites]
Here are some real life impacts that the juggalo gang classification has had[:] People have lost their jobs because of juggalo tattoos. They have lost custody battles. People have been dishonorably discharged from the military for gang tattoos. Juggalos have been pulled over for the cops and been searched because ICP stickers are now probable cause. Juggalos who get arrested for non-violent offenses are treated as gang members and added to gang lists.
This all might seem hilarious to you but people are having their lives ruined over a tattoo they got of their favorite band in high school. So if you give a fuck about justice you should give a fuck about this. Liberal s should get on board because it is a civil rights issue and conservatives should get on board because it’s government overreach. Long story short, take the Juggalo March on Washington seriously. It’s more important than you think.
Boston resident is making lemonade out of the racist lemons showing up on Boston Common on Saturday:
For each and every vile Nazi and white nationalist who marches in Boston on Saturday, I'm donating $1 to the Southern Poverty Law Center to help fight hate. Have at it, you racists, the more the better, and thanks so much for your help!posted by adamg at 11:43 AM on August 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
Wow, my bad. Don't know wtf I was thinking.
Speaking of tweets I'd like to see from Republicans...
posted by Celsius1414 at 11:44 AM on August 17, 2017 [11 favorites]
Speaking of tweets I'd like to see from Republicans...
posted by Celsius1414 at 11:44 AM on August 17, 2017 [11 favorites]
You may be right about that AHotAP, but don't for a second think that there isn't a strong anti-semetic component in Russian culture.
posted by kittensofthenight at 11:45 AM on August 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by kittensofthenight at 11:45 AM on August 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
Heh. #thatswhatGOPsaid
posted by Autumnheart at 11:46 AM on August 17, 2017
posted by Autumnheart at 11:46 AM on August 17, 2017
I guarantee you that he, like any other Russian, is appalled by Nazism for a lot of immediate historical reasons.
I'm sorry, but this blanket statement is absurd on its face.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:46 AM on August 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
I'm sorry, but this blanket statement is absurd on its face.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:46 AM on August 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
Oh my god. Not surprising but shocking.
@realDonaldTrump
Study what General Pershing of the United States did to terrorists when caught. There was no more Radical Islamic Terror for 35 years!
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:50 AM on August 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump
Study what General Pershing of the United States did to terrorists when caught. There was no more Radical Islamic Terror for 35 years!
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:50 AM on August 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
In case anyone wonders, he would burn them and then bury them with pigs. So that's what the President of the United States is recommending.
posted by Justinian at 11:52 AM on August 17, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 11:52 AM on August 17, 2017 [32 favorites]
But I'll stand by what I said about Putin and literal Nazis. Putin is a horrible authoritarian undermining the American system, but I guarantee you that he, like any other Russian, is appalled by Nazism for a lot of immediate historical reasons.
But lets keep slapping an emotionally laden word like "fascist" on people and ignore what Eric Blair (ya know, a guy who went and fought 'em) once said:
"All one can do for the moment is to use the word with a certain amount of circumspection and not, as is usually done, degrade it to the level of a swearword."
Putin may be many things and deserves many a label but given the ties that historically tie Nazi to fascist - why would the Russian people say "oh hey, fascist. That's cool." and keep Putin around?
posted by rough ashlar at 11:52 AM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
But lets keep slapping an emotionally laden word like "fascist" on people and ignore what Eric Blair (ya know, a guy who went and fought 'em) once said:
"All one can do for the moment is to use the word with a certain amount of circumspection and not, as is usually done, degrade it to the level of a swearword."
Putin may be many things and deserves many a label but given the ties that historically tie Nazi to fascist - why would the Russian people say "oh hey, fascist. That's cool." and keep Putin around?
posted by rough ashlar at 11:52 AM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
@ddale8: Trump is again endorsing a FAKE MASSACRE of Muslim terrorists with bullets dipped in pigs' blood. This never happened. Pure bigotry. To repeat: the U.S. president is endorsing mass murder as an anti-terror tactic...citing a historical event that never happened.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:52 AM on August 17, 2017 [82 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 11:52 AM on August 17, 2017 [82 favorites]
Unfuckingbelievable. I have never seen someone double down or dig in harder, all to their own detriment.
posted by marshmallow peep at 11:52 AM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by marshmallow peep at 11:52 AM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
In case anyone wonders, he would burn them and then bury them with pigs. So that's what the President of the United States is recommending.
Confirmed Snopes Nope.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:53 AM on August 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
Confirmed Snopes Nope.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:53 AM on August 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
Huh, that's an urban legend? Today I learned.
At least I didn't tweet it out as the President of the fucking United States.
posted by Justinian at 11:55 AM on August 17, 2017 [34 favorites]
At least I didn't tweet it out as the President of the fucking United States.
posted by Justinian at 11:55 AM on August 17, 2017 [34 favorites]
Not the first time Trump has spouted this hateful line. Back in February 2016, Politifact rated this myth about Pershing as "Pants on Fire".
posted by 0xFCAF at 11:55 AM on August 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by 0xFCAF at 11:55 AM on August 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
Great, thanks, cool cool cool cool cool cool. That's basically an open invitation for any asshole to open fire on American mosques.
posted by yasaman at 11:55 AM on August 17, 2017 [33 favorites]
posted by yasaman at 11:55 AM on August 17, 2017 [33 favorites]
This is known as an "extinction burst", where a narcissist basically goes off the deep end and engages in all manner of crazy stuff, with the goal of bringing the person or people at whom this is directed back under the narcissist's control.
posted by Autumnheart at 11:56 AM on August 17, 2017 [53 favorites]
posted by Autumnheart at 11:56 AM on August 17, 2017 [53 favorites]
But but but I thought Trump doesn't speak until he has all the facts?
posted by zachlipton at 11:57 AM on August 17, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:57 AM on August 17, 2017 [11 favorites]
Obviously there's no point in trying to understand his ridiculous and hateful bullshit, but I find the randomly-pulled number "35 years" kind of fascinating. What happened in 1948 that he thinks reversed the Pershing phenomenon?
posted by Copronymus at 11:57 AM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Copronymus at 11:57 AM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Putin is a horrible authoritarian undermining the American system, but I guarantee you that he, like any other Russian, is appalled by Nazism for a lot of immediate historical reasons.
Maybe if he tried acting like it, he wouldn't need you to explain.
posted by two or three cars parked under the stars at 11:58 AM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Maybe if he tried acting like it, he wouldn't need you to explain.
posted by two or three cars parked under the stars at 11:58 AM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
I think the most important aspect of this tweet is that it is encouraging state-sanctioned violence. It is giving violence the sanction of the state, literally.
posted by prefpara at 11:58 AM on August 17, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by prefpara at 11:58 AM on August 17, 2017 [18 favorites]
extinction, huh
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:58 AM on August 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:58 AM on August 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
And it's a goddamn guarantee that if any brown person perpetrates an act of terror on US soil, not a single Muslim in America is safe. I mean, we knew it already. But ahahahaha how naive I was! I was thinking I just had to worry about being sent to the camps, not being murdered!
posted by yasaman at 12:01 PM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by yasaman at 12:01 PM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
What happened in 1948 that he thinks reversed the Pershing phenomenon?
Islamic terrorist scientists finally developed the afterlife pork vaccine. DARPA's efforts to counter it with a super-pig made directly from the spiritual aether have yet to bear fruit.
Now let's see if we can get the president* to retweet that, because, why the fuck not, it's 2017.
posted by Behemoth at 12:02 PM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Islamic terrorist scientists finally developed the afterlife pork vaccine. DARPA's efforts to counter it with a super-pig made directly from the spiritual aether have yet to bear fruit.
Now let's see if we can get the president* to retweet that, because, why the fuck not, it's 2017.
posted by Behemoth at 12:02 PM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
For anyone interested in how our money-war machine even got us invading the Phillipines, Zinn's 20th century history does a great job. The parallels between the turn to the 20th century and the 21st for empire america are pretty chilling.
But alas, yes, no pig's blood threats were considered.
posted by rc3spencer at 12:02 PM on August 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
But alas, yes, no pig's blood threats were considered.
posted by rc3spencer at 12:02 PM on August 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
It was 25 years when he said this on the campaign trail, so the number seems pretty darn arbitrary to him.
posted by zachlipton at 12:04 PM on August 17, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:04 PM on August 17, 2017 [10 favorites]
2017: the year that the George W. Bush "Miss me yet?" billboard ceased to be ironic.
posted by darkstar at 12:05 PM on August 17, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by darkstar at 12:05 PM on August 17, 2017 [25 favorites]
What happened in 1948 that he thinks reversed the Pershing phenomenon?
Israel became a State.
posted by OmieWise at 12:08 PM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Israel became a State.
posted by OmieWise at 12:08 PM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Putin's political future may be a bit rocky if it unfolds he helped install a Nazi sympathizer as the leader of their most dangerous international rival.
posted by Slap*Happy at 12:09 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Slap*Happy at 12:09 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Obviously, you should simply never step away from the internet.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 12:10 PM on August 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 12:10 PM on August 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm beginning to think he might not be a very good president.
posted by cjelli at 12:07 PM on August 17 [2 favorites]
JUST GIVE HIM A CHAAAAAANNNCE!
posted by Kibbutz at 12:11 PM on August 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by cjelli at 12:07 PM on August 17 [2 favorites]
JUST GIVE HIM A CHAAAAAANNNCE!
posted by Kibbutz at 12:11 PM on August 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
So, does Trump think there were good people on both sides of the attack in Barcelona
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:14 PM on August 17, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:14 PM on August 17, 2017 [30 favorites]
"Just imagine how Trump might react if there were a deadly terrorist vehicle attack in the United States." –@pinboard
posted by entropicamericana at 12:14 PM on August 17, 2017 [57 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 12:14 PM on August 17, 2017 [57 favorites]
That Snopes article, though:
posted by Coventry at 12:16 PM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
I am sorry the soldiers had to kill any Moros. All Moros are the same to me as my children and no father wants to kill his own children …Cry me some more crocodile tears, Pershing.
posted by Coventry at 12:16 PM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Not sure what chasing Pancho Villa around northern Mexico has to do with Muslims, but...
posted by Huffy Puffy at 12:17 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Huffy Puffy at 12:17 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Dammit, Empress, and 0xFCAF. I was about to ask Trump if it would be OK to do the same thing to Nazis.
posted by martin q blank at 12:20 PM on August 17, 2017
posted by martin q blank at 12:20 PM on August 17, 2017
And it's a goddamn guarantee that if any brown person perpetrates an act of terror on US soil, not a single Muslim in America is safe.
A fine bit of rhetoric - but John Allen Williams AKA John Muhammad is so far in the past that America's reaction today is going to be different than 2002? In 2002 the "terrorist hunting permits' were FAR more of a thing than now.
sent to the camps
So that makes Alex Jones right on there being camps just wrong on who's going and why?
And hell, if somehow Trump is gonna be the lead on 'camps', why would anyone think he'd make THAT the one thing he'd be "competent" on and make them some kind of place to be worried about going to?
On January 21st of 2017 there was the threat of the perception of a competent Trump administration. That ship has sailed. Pence and HIS ideas are the ball to keep an eye on but the butyl mercaptan of Trump will limit his options with a focus on making the rich richer VS creating 'camps'. To get to 'camps' the Democrats have to keep being the party of "meh?" vs saying "no" as a group.
posted by rough ashlar at 12:21 PM on August 17, 2017
A fine bit of rhetoric - but John Allen Williams AKA John Muhammad is so far in the past that America's reaction today is going to be different than 2002? In 2002 the "terrorist hunting permits' were FAR more of a thing than now.
sent to the camps
So that makes Alex Jones right on there being camps just wrong on who's going and why?
And hell, if somehow Trump is gonna be the lead on 'camps', why would anyone think he'd make THAT the one thing he'd be "competent" on and make them some kind of place to be worried about going to?
On January 21st of 2017 there was the threat of the perception of a competent Trump administration. That ship has sailed. Pence and HIS ideas are the ball to keep an eye on but the butyl mercaptan of Trump will limit his options with a focus on making the rich richer VS creating 'camps'. To get to 'camps' the Democrats have to keep being the party of "meh?" vs saying "no" as a group.
posted by rough ashlar at 12:21 PM on August 17, 2017
Named in the suit are Richard Spencer, Jason Kessler, and David Duke, among others. The sisters are seeking $3M, and I would guess that this is the first of many. If these assholes won't face charges, then hopefully they will get bankrupted.
I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, fuck the abovenamed, in perpetuity, forever. On the other hand, there are currently attempts at laws in many states trying to make protest organizers liable for any violence or property damage that takes place at their marches, and it's not being aimed at Nazis, it's being aimed at anti-pipeline and anti-Trump organizers. I support those guys getting bankrupted on general principle, but that's a dangerous precedent, especially in states where people would be only too eager to shut down actual legitimate protest.
posted by corb at 12:24 PM on August 17, 2017 [21 favorites]
I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, fuck the abovenamed, in perpetuity, forever. On the other hand, there are currently attempts at laws in many states trying to make protest organizers liable for any violence or property damage that takes place at their marches, and it's not being aimed at Nazis, it's being aimed at anti-pipeline and anti-Trump organizers. I support those guys getting bankrupted on general principle, but that's a dangerous precedent, especially in states where people would be only too eager to shut down actual legitimate protest.
posted by corb at 12:24 PM on August 17, 2017 [21 favorites]
The solar eclipse (if one should randomly occur in the next week) is a sign we should sacrifice our leader to Huitzilopochtli (Aztec for hummingbird on the left).
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:25 PM on August 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:25 PM on August 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
Also from Politifact:
"Even if the tale is true, the pacifying effect that Trump claims is nonsense," said Michael H. Hunt, an emeritus historian at the University of North Carolina and author of Arc of Empire: America's Wars in Asia from the Philippines to Vietnam. The region "remained in constant unrest during the period of American rule and into the period of independence, right down to the present."posted by kirkaracha at 12:26 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Silbey of Cornell agreed. "Where Trump’s remark becomes ridiculous is in the idea that this actually worked," he said. "The Moro War did not end until 1913, and even that’s a bit of a soft date, with violence continuing for quite a while afterward. Defilement by pig’s blood isn’t -- and wasn’t -- some magical method of ending terrorism."
How about Left Shark, that seems more apropos here in the Stupidest Darkest Timeline.
posted by emjaybee at 12:27 PM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 12:27 PM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
I think Putin is using Trump to create the Nazi enemy he needs to justify his position as Defender of the Motherland/Eurasia/Christendom. This fits with the Nazi rhetoric they used against Ukraine and it fits with the racist memes and storylines pushed via chans, social media, and far-right/edgelord forums by Russian-backed operatives. I certainly don't think it is a "surprise".
posted by dmh at 12:28 PM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by dmh at 12:28 PM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
that's a dangerous precedent
There is a difference between a law and a lawsuit.
posted by Etrigan at 12:29 PM on August 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
There is a difference between a law and a lawsuit.
posted by Etrigan at 12:29 PM on August 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
rough ashlar, I'm sorry, what does John Allen Muhammad have to do with anything? I am worried about mosques being shot up and blown up and set on fire by white nationalist and Islamophobic terrorists who have just received implicit permission from the President of the United States to do just that. I am a Muslim in America telling you that I have been far, far more terrified of violence against me and mine during the Trump presidency than I ever was post-9/11. Thanks for the "well actually...." about how things are so DIFFERENT now and the government can never get its shit together to put us in actual camps so I shouldn't worry, but I am still fucking worried. Nazis marched in the streets and murdered a woman a few days ago. Telling me I shouldn't worry sounds like straight up irrationality. No I'm not fucking worried about Pence right now, are you kidding me?
posted by yasaman at 12:31 PM on August 17, 2017 [54 favorites]
posted by yasaman at 12:31 PM on August 17, 2017 [54 favorites]
"Just imagine how Trump might react if there were a deadly terrorist vehicle attack in the United States."
I wonder whether he imagines that executing James Alex Fields using bullets dipped in dogs' blood, then burying him in a shroud made of dog skin, would end White Nationalist Extremism.
posted by Coventry at 12:31 PM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
I wonder whether he imagines that executing James Alex Fields using bullets dipped in dogs' blood, then burying him in a shroud made of dog skin, would end White Nationalist Extremism.
posted by Coventry at 12:31 PM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
As things get worse, as more people turn against him, Trump gets more wild and unbridled.He lashes out more aggressively. There’s no kill switch on this escalating aggression.
I can't believe the GOP Congress and Trump's staff don't see this and the enormous gamble they're making. Well, yes, I can -- denial and dodging of responsibiity are a hell of a drug. He is getting more and more reckless and openly inciting of violence, and at any moment, that could have immediate cataclysmic results. It's nothing but dumb luck that his behavior re: North Korea and Charlottesville didn't trigger a mass casualty attack. Yet.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:32 PM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
I can't believe the GOP Congress and Trump's staff don't see this and the enormous gamble they're making. Well, yes, I can -- denial and dodging of responsibiity are a hell of a drug. He is getting more and more reckless and openly inciting of violence, and at any moment, that could have immediate cataclysmic results. It's nothing but dumb luck that his behavior re: North Korea and Charlottesville didn't trigger a mass casualty attack. Yet.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:32 PM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
I went ahead and ran the Pershing tweet past my Republican representative's office. Naturally they didn't know the urban legend. They were appalled. I find this heartening.
posted by Archelaus at 12:32 PM on August 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Archelaus at 12:32 PM on August 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
JUST GIVE HIM A CHAAAAAANNNCE!
Good idea. Since he doesn't seem to know the exit, someone should show him the door.
posted by Namlit at 12:36 PM on August 17, 2017
Good idea. Since he doesn't seem to know the exit, someone should show him the door.
posted by Namlit at 12:36 PM on August 17, 2017
> I support those guys getting bankrupted on general principle, but that's a dangerous precedent,
It is not a precedent. In this great nation of ours, we can civilly sue just about anybody for just about anything and have been able to for, I dunno, basically forever.
posted by rtha at 12:37 PM on August 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
It is not a precedent. In this great nation of ours, we can civilly sue just about anybody for just about anything and have been able to for, I dunno, basically forever.
posted by rtha at 12:37 PM on August 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
Hey, remember when the bad thing was flat out lying about the size of his inauguration crowd? You know, that innocent time less than seven months ago?
Fuck.
posted by MattWPBS at 12:40 PM on August 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
Fuck.
posted by MattWPBS at 12:40 PM on August 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
I'm kinda done with the slippery slope arguments when the Nazis roll into town and they have the support of the President of the United States.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:40 PM on August 17, 2017 [42 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 12:40 PM on August 17, 2017 [42 favorites]
‘Art Of The Deal’ Co-Author Tony Schwartz Predicts Trump’s About To Resign (HuffPo)
[fingers crossed]
posted by zakur at 12:42 PM on August 17, 2017 [27 favorites]
[fingers crossed]
posted by zakur at 12:42 PM on August 17, 2017 [27 favorites]
Why are people wasting their time "fact-checking" Trump, at least on a micro level? Those are hours they're never getting back, and people who buy into it will never learn any better. He literally just spews out random bullshit. And then people are like, "well, it's illogical to claim blah blah blah." He has no intellect. He is just a megaphone for every crazy grandpa crank theory. Trump's entire agenda and policy program is exactly on the level of that Lee / Washington shit from the Dowd email.
That thing fucking cracked me up, because I'm old. People were circulating that kindergarten-level propaganda as ditto sheets on their breakroom bulletin boards when I was a teenager. 19/c racists were probably Pony Expressing fountain-pen copies of that shit to each other. The dumb: it never goes away, just changes its distribution system.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:42 PM on August 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
That thing fucking cracked me up, because I'm old. People were circulating that kindergarten-level propaganda as ditto sheets on their breakroom bulletin boards when I was a teenager. 19/c racists were probably Pony Expressing fountain-pen copies of that shit to each other. The dumb: it never goes away, just changes its distribution system.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:42 PM on August 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
Why are people wasting their time "fact-checking" Trump, at least on a micro level? Those are hours they're never getting back, and people who buy into it will never learn any better.
To uphold the idea that the President doesn't get to just invent whatever set of facts he wants?
posted by thelonius at 12:45 PM on August 17, 2017 [53 favorites]
To uphold the idea that the President doesn't get to just invent whatever set of facts he wants?
posted by thelonius at 12:45 PM on August 17, 2017 [53 favorites]
I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, fuck the abovenamed, in perpetuity, forever. On the other hand, there are currently attempts at laws in many states trying to make protest organizers liable for any violence or property damage that takes place at their marches, and it's not being aimed at Nazis, it's being aimed at anti-pipeline and anti-Trump organizers. I support those guys getting bankrupted on general principle, but that's a dangerous precedent, especially in states where people would be only too eager to shut down actual legitimate protest.
Yeah, echoing the above, this is a civil suit which I don't think is setting any real precedent. I share your concern about the laws that are being put forth to punish demonstrators.
posted by Existential Dread at 12:47 PM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yeah, echoing the above, this is a civil suit which I don't think is setting any real precedent. I share your concern about the laws that are being put forth to punish demonstrators.
posted by Existential Dread at 12:47 PM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
The Pershing stuff is another one of his stuck-in-the-past references to generals most people don't remember, believe me.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:48 PM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 12:48 PM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
To uphold the idea that the President doesn't get to just invent whatever set of facts he wants?
Granted, and yes, lies and crazytalk must be countered. I'm just not sure there need to be daily extended thinkpieces on "why Washington and Lee are, in fact, not identical, despite both admittedly wearing hats, riding horses, and being mammals."
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:49 PM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Granted, and yes, lies and crazytalk must be countered. I'm just not sure there need to be daily extended thinkpieces on "why Washington and Lee are, in fact, not identical, despite both admittedly wearing hats, riding horses, and being mammals."
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:49 PM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
‘Art Of The Deal’ Co-Author Tony Schwartz Predicts Trump’s About To Resign
Bit of a clickbaity headline. "About" is a very optimistic interpretation of “I surely believe that at some point over the next period of time he’s going to have to figure out a way to resign.”
posted by Coventry at 12:49 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Bit of a clickbaity headline. "About" is a very optimistic interpretation of “I surely believe that at some point over the next period of time he’s going to have to figure out a way to resign.”
posted by Coventry at 12:49 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm dreaming of a world where after these last few tweets and statements, Trump returns to the Oval Office and finds the HR Director and a sheriff's deputy waiting for him. The HR Director asks for his badge and gives him a cardboard box for his stuff.
As everybody else in the building painfully and studiously avoids looking at him, Trump sadly packs his photos, his POTUS water bottle and action figures in the box. Somewhere around the corner from Trump's desk, a sales guy is on a loud call with a client, and you can faintly hear some people playing foosball in the break room.
After Trump has all his stuff -- except for a sweater he forgot in the bottom of his file cabinet, but it's okay because it was just some dull grey $10 thing from Target -- the deputy escorts him past security, through the front door, out to the parking lot, and then watches him get in his car and drive away.
When he feels he's far enough away that the officer won't see him, Trump flips the bird at the deputy, the HR director, and the White House. He runs a red light as he gets on the feeder road to the highway.
Years later, people won't be quite certain what happened to him after he left. He showed up on some Slack channels for a little while, always speaking vaguely about his (series of short-lived) jobs and his plans. Somebody thinks they saw him nursing a tallboy at a show a few months back. But he just kind of disappears from everyone's minds after a while.
And the world goes on.
posted by lord_wolf at 12:50 PM on August 17, 2017 [35 favorites]
As everybody else in the building painfully and studiously avoids looking at him, Trump sadly packs his photos, his POTUS water bottle and action figures in the box. Somewhere around the corner from Trump's desk, a sales guy is on a loud call with a client, and you can faintly hear some people playing foosball in the break room.
After Trump has all his stuff -- except for a sweater he forgot in the bottom of his file cabinet, but it's okay because it was just some dull grey $10 thing from Target -- the deputy escorts him past security, through the front door, out to the parking lot, and then watches him get in his car and drive away.
When he feels he's far enough away that the officer won't see him, Trump flips the bird at the deputy, the HR director, and the White House. He runs a red light as he gets on the feeder road to the highway.
Years later, people won't be quite certain what happened to him after he left. He showed up on some Slack channels for a little while, always speaking vaguely about his (series of short-lived) jobs and his plans. Somebody thinks they saw him nursing a tallboy at a show a few months back. But he just kind of disappears from everyone's minds after a while.
And the world goes on.
posted by lord_wolf at 12:50 PM on August 17, 2017 [35 favorites]
Trump spreading that BS Pershing story is going to put US soldiers lives in Iraq and Afghanistan (and Qatar) in a tad more danger.
Did he get pissed off that the entire Joint Chiefs of Staff were subtweeting him yesterday?
posted by PenDevil at 12:51 PM on August 17, 2017 [12 favorites]
Did he get pissed off that the entire Joint Chiefs of Staff were subtweeting him yesterday?
posted by PenDevil at 12:51 PM on August 17, 2017 [12 favorites]
I hereby cake-bet Trump won't resign, and the GOP Congress will not turn on him. If they didn't after Tuesday, they never will. They're all in. If he does quit, I'll write the "If you're Nazi, it's your fault" song lyrics on my cake.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:52 PM on August 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:52 PM on August 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
Bit of a clickbaity headline. "About" is a very optimistic interpretation of “I surely believe that at some point over the next period of time he’s going to have to figure out a way to resign.”
That was a quote from May. Yesterday he tweeted:
That was a quote from May. Yesterday he tweeted:
The circle is closing at blinding speed. Trump is going to resign and declare victory before Mueller and congress leave him no choice.posted by zakur at 12:53 PM on August 17, 2017 [10 favorites]
> Did he get pissed off that the entire Joint Chiefs of Staff were subtweeting him yesterday?
Do you really think he understands subtweeting, subtext, or sub-anything other than maybe submarine sandwiches?
posted by tonycpsu at 12:53 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Do you really think he understands subtweeting, subtext, or sub-anything other than maybe submarine sandwiches?
posted by tonycpsu at 12:53 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Just saw a spreadsheet listing Civil War Memorials. 1488 Confederate memorials, 61 American. (My guess is they're counting statues on state land.)
posted by kirkaracha at 12:56 PM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 12:56 PM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Did the White House really just put out an announcement about US pork exports to Argentina around the same time the President was tweeting garbage racist colonialist bullshit about pig's blood bullets?
These damn writers.
posted by zachlipton at 12:56 PM on August 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
These damn writers.
posted by zachlipton at 12:56 PM on August 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
The Pershing stuff is another one of his stuck-in-the-past references to generals most people don't remember, believe me.
It's not aimed at "most people", though.
And it's not aimed at the very small minority of people who know about the Pershing urban legend out of an interest in history, either.
It's aimed at that relatively tiny group of people who propagate and obsess over such myths because they appeal to and reinforce their own right-wing, racist worldview.
Hence, it is a dogwhistle.
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:58 PM on August 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
It's not aimed at "most people", though.
And it's not aimed at the very small minority of people who know about the Pershing urban legend out of an interest in history, either.
It's aimed at that relatively tiny group of people who propagate and obsess over such myths because they appeal to and reinforce their own right-wing, racist worldview.
Hence, it is a dogwhistle.
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:58 PM on August 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
It's ugly dominance shit based on hatred of the other. Quintessential Trump. Disgusting as fuck.
posted by puddledork at 1:00 PM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by puddledork at 1:00 PM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
the President was tweeting garbage racist colonialist bullshit about pig's blood bullets?
Wait this actually happened? I didn't see a tag and thought somebody was exaggerating for effect.
posted by corb at 1:00 PM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Wait this actually happened? I didn't see a tag and thought somebody was exaggerating for effect.
posted by corb at 1:00 PM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
the beauty that is being taken out of our cities, towns and parks will be greatly missed and never able to be comparably replaced!
Ah, a disquisition on aesthetics from the guy who lived here.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:01 PM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Ah, a disquisition on aesthetics from the guy who lived here.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:01 PM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
That was a quote from May. Yesterday he tweeted:
Thanks, I misread. Sounds like wishful thinking, but I hope he's right.
posted by Coventry at 1:01 PM on August 17, 2017
Thanks, I misread. Sounds like wishful thinking, but I hope he's right.
posted by Coventry at 1:01 PM on August 17, 2017
Wait this actually happened? I didn't see a tag and thought somebody was exaggerating for effect.
And then you remembered it's 2017 in Trumpworld.
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:02 PM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
And then you remembered it's 2017 in Trumpworld.
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:02 PM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Here's the thing: what possible victory could he achieve by resigning?
In his position, he gets to fuck up the world. He gets to nuke things.
He failed in his other ventures and he was pushed out, right?
Ultimately, he needs 2/3 of Congress to push him out.
And that's where we are, sadly.
posted by angrycat at 1:02 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
In his position, he gets to fuck up the world. He gets to nuke things.
He failed in his other ventures and he was pushed out, right?
Ultimately, he needs 2/3 of Congress to push him out.
And that's where we are, sadly.
posted by angrycat at 1:02 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
No, this is actually a real tweet from the president.
Study what General Pershing of the United States did to terrorists when caught. There was no more Radical Islamic Terror for 35 years!
posted by winna at 1:03 PM on August 17, 2017
Study what General Pershing of the United States did to terrorists when caught. There was no more Radical Islamic Terror for 35 years!
posted by winna at 1:03 PM on August 17, 2017
tell me more, media, about how General Kelly is going to impose order and purpose on this deranged sociopath
John Kelly: life coach, motivational speaker, lives in van down by the river
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:04 PM on August 17, 2017 [22 favorites]
John Kelly: life coach, motivational speaker, lives in van down by the river
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:04 PM on August 17, 2017 [22 favorites]
It's going to end before 2018. Whether he resigns or is impeached or we have Armageddon, it's going to be over. This is not sustainable. The ego damage causing more acting out causing more recriminations causing more ego damage and on and on. Rinse and repeat.
We're entering a death spiral. I just don't know if it will be his presidency that dies or civilization.
posted by chris24 at 1:04 PM on August 17, 2017 [11 favorites]
We're entering a death spiral. I just don't know if it will be his presidency that dies or civilization.
posted by chris24 at 1:04 PM on August 17, 2017 [11 favorites]
> Putin's a fascist, went out of his way to install a fascist here, and operates a firehose of monetary and propaganda support for any and all fascist causes worldwide.
The philosopher known as “Putin’s brain” is a big fan of Trump
Trump, the alt-right and the Kremlin: White supremacists’ Russia links are no secret
White supremacist gathering underscores Russia's nationalist trend
The skinhead style Russian identitarian movement (many self-identifying as Nazis) has been around a while, my first WTF? moment about it was, IIRC, a BBC or CH4 documentary in the 90's about how they were infiltrating the Russian military in a big way (no parallels there...).
Not to say that Putin is a Nazi, or anything other than a Putin supremacist, but he certainly isn't allergic to assisting and riding on the backs of them (presumably shirtless).
posted by Buntix at 1:04 PM on August 17, 2017 [21 favorites]
The philosopher known as “Putin’s brain” is a big fan of Trump
Dugin’s ideas are reminiscent of the alt-right movement in the US, and indeed there are ties between the two. Nina Byzantina, wife of alt-right leader Richard Spencer (who gave Nazi salutes and cried “Hail Trump” at a November gathering celebrating Trump’s presidential victory in November) is a scholar who’s translated Dugin’s writing. The Russian philosopher has published articles on Spencer’s website, Alternative Right, reports Business Insider, and recorded a speech titled “To my American Friend in Our Common Struggle,” for a nationalist conference in 2015.
Trump, the alt-right and the Kremlin: White supremacists’ Russia links are no secret
White supremacist gathering underscores Russia's nationalist trend
The skinhead style Russian identitarian movement (many self-identifying as Nazis) has been around a while, my first WTF? moment about it was, IIRC, a BBC or CH4 documentary in the 90's about how they were infiltrating the Russian military in a big way (no parallels there...).
Not to say that Putin is a Nazi, or anything other than a Putin supremacist, but he certainly isn't allergic to assisting and riding on the backs of them (presumably shirtless).
posted by Buntix at 1:04 PM on August 17, 2017 [21 favorites]
That google sheet of civil war memorials seems off. There is a civil war memorial for union generals/PA government at the entrance of Fairmount park in Philly, and you're telling me there's no memorials anywhere in Gettysburg?
posted by Suffocating Kitty at 1:06 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Suffocating Kitty at 1:06 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Rep. Steve Cohen (D-TN) to introduce articles of impeachment over Charlottesville.
Now *that's* how you fucking do it, Democrats.
TN-9 represent!
posted by vibrotronica at 1:07 PM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Now *that's* how you fucking do it, Democrats.
TN-9 represent!
posted by vibrotronica at 1:07 PM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
The Economist's latest cover not pulling punches either.
Ditto the New Yorker
(Yes, the hands are tiny!)
posted by zachlipton at 1:10 PM on August 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
Ditto the New Yorker
(Yes, the hands are tiny!)
posted by zachlipton at 1:10 PM on August 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
Y'all, I'm touring the deep south right now, and so am only this far in the thread, and I'm terrified about the next 1000+ comments, but I just wanted to mention that the tiny boutique hotel I'm at, the staff heard a bunch of Nazis call another customer the n word, and threw them out, called the police to make sure they left, and a large contingent of customers stood by to wave goodbye and tell them they aren't welcome. I think the words my teenage son used were, fuck off and die Nazi scum. It was a proud moment for this old punk.
The times, they are changing, albeit too slowly. But they are changing.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 1:11 PM on August 17, 2017 [133 favorites]
The times, they are changing, albeit too slowly. But they are changing.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 1:11 PM on August 17, 2017 [133 favorites]
Well, fuck everything.
Except apparently, OKCupid banning a Nazi for life.
posted by corb at 1:13 PM on August 17, 2017 [19 favorites]
Except apparently, OKCupid banning a Nazi for life.
posted by corb at 1:13 PM on August 17, 2017 [19 favorites]
People like Trump quit before they're fired. He just needs the perfect excuse that makes him appear heroic while doing so. It's going to be illness in the family or "fuck the swamp they are trying to bring me down I would have been the greatest president ever follow me on Trump tv for the revolution".
posted by lydhre at 1:14 PM on August 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 1:14 PM on August 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
People like Trump quit before they're fired. He just needs the perfect excuse that makes him appear heroic while doing so.
Sadly, the thought, "What Would George Costanza Do To Get Out Of The Presidency" is likely not far off the mark for what the Grand Cosmic Author has plotted out...
posted by mikelieman at 1:19 PM on August 17, 2017 [13 favorites]
Sadly, the thought, "What Would George Costanza Do To Get Out Of The Presidency" is likely not far off the mark for what the Grand Cosmic Author has plotted out...
posted by mikelieman at 1:19 PM on August 17, 2017 [13 favorites]
thought somebody was exaggerating for effect.
This doesn't work anymore
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:22 PM on August 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
This doesn't work anymore
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:22 PM on August 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
I think he'd probably like to quit at this point, but is in thrall to the staggering amount of money being funneled into his pockets as long as he remains.
posted by mikepop at 1:22 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by mikepop at 1:22 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
People like Trump quit before they're fired. He just needs the perfect excuse that makes him appear heroic while doing so.
"I must go. My planet needs me."
posted by nubs at 1:25 PM on August 17, 2017 [14 favorites]
"I must go. My planet needs me."
posted by nubs at 1:25 PM on August 17, 2017 [14 favorites]
There's a certain curious aesthetic going on with the gender relations on show there
posted by glasseyes at 1:25 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by glasseyes at 1:25 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Here's the thing: what possible victory could he achieve by resigning?
In his position, he gets to fuck up the world. He gets to nuke things.
Yes, but that's WORK. This job comes with media scrutiny and fact-checking and paperwork and annoying proles calling him rude names and the expectation that he's going to accomplish things. His family, his finances, his racial attitudes, his history, his obligations to Russian creditors are all under microscopes, and while he thinks he can get away with just about anything he also knows that he sure as hell has unclean hands.
If he resigns before being impeached, he goes out as a martyr for the 27% forevermore. The Great White Hope chased out of office by blacks and Hispanics and women and mainstream media and eggheads and The Deep State and Soros and Crooked Hillary and Kenyan Obama and it's so UNFAIR! The hicks will be ready to stab things in his name, people will get shot, Pence will usher in tax cuts, he will live out his remaining years as Emperor of the fcking Mole People, and OTHER PEOPLE will have to do the work instead of him.
Whether he can safely do so and ride the wingnut gravy train to glory without ingesting a polonium taco bowl is another matter.
posted by delfin at 1:27 PM on August 17, 2017 [22 favorites]
In his position, he gets to fuck up the world. He gets to nuke things.
Yes, but that's WORK. This job comes with media scrutiny and fact-checking and paperwork and annoying proles calling him rude names and the expectation that he's going to accomplish things. His family, his finances, his racial attitudes, his history, his obligations to Russian creditors are all under microscopes, and while he thinks he can get away with just about anything he also knows that he sure as hell has unclean hands.
If he resigns before being impeached, he goes out as a martyr for the 27% forevermore. The Great White Hope chased out of office by blacks and Hispanics and women and mainstream media and eggheads and The Deep State and Soros and Crooked Hillary and Kenyan Obama and it's so UNFAIR! The hicks will be ready to stab things in his name, people will get shot, Pence will usher in tax cuts, he will live out his remaining years as Emperor of the fcking Mole People, and OTHER PEOPLE will have to do the work instead of him.
Whether he can safely do so and ride the wingnut gravy train to glory without ingesting a polonium taco bowl is another matter.
posted by delfin at 1:27 PM on August 17, 2017 [22 favorites]
I think if you search your feelings these threads you'll find my money on "Trump resigns due to ~illness before any elections are lost or articles of impeachment are ratified" and it remains there. The GOP isn't going to find its spine, but "you can't fire me, I quit!" is for sure in the playbook and if he can make his fake illness seem like it was brought about by all the boohoo stress and fake news haters boohoo then he'll get to stay a martyr and fuck off back to Mar a Lago until he announces his miraculous cure (for sale at trump.com for $59.99 a bottle) so he can haunt President Pence via Twitter until 2020.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:28 PM on August 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:28 PM on August 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
Yesterday, I suddenly had an image flash in my mind that Trump was going to take his toys and petulantly stomp out, soon. Told my husband, who laughed at me. But my mother tells me I've foreseen the downfall of several public figures in my life, including telling her that "that kid" was going to get in big trouble, and pointing at a young Michael Jackson. I don't remember that because I was a child, but I do remember the time I told her years ago I thought Bill Cosby was a creep, though I couldn't put my finger on why I thought that. Perhaps my *totally legitimate* precognition will hold true now. There's a cake at stake.
posted by thebrokedown at 1:29 PM on August 17, 2017 [60 favorites]
posted by thebrokedown at 1:29 PM on August 17, 2017 [60 favorites]
Maybe he'll fake his own death in an extremely obvious way and we'll all collectively agree to let his previously unknown cousin, Monald Trump, go off to die alone somewhere.
posted by Copronymus at 1:29 PM on August 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Copronymus at 1:29 PM on August 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
You know, we may be able to put together a golden parachute package for Trump. That's something he could relate to. Maybe crowd funding. I remember in the 1970s Saturday Night Live offered $1,000 for a Beatles reunion on their show.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:30 PM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:30 PM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
The President of the United States is using a debunked myth to suggest that Muslims should be executed using bullets dipped in pig's blood; it must be Thursday
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:30 PM on August 17, 2017 [39 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:30 PM on August 17, 2017 [39 favorites]
Did the White House really just put out an announcement about US pork exports to Argentina around the same time the President was tweeting garbage racist colonialist bullshit about pig's blood bullets?
So the link says that Pence scored a "deliverable" by opening a $10 million per year pork market. US pork exports are about $6 billion per year(pdf), so this amounts to growing the market by 0.17%. That is such small potatoes, Brooklyn hipsters probably cure more artisanal guanciale in their tiny kitchens.
That lines up with something I noticed yesterday with the story about Sessions crowing about Miami-Dade County now cooperating with ICE detention standards. He said they would now be eligible in $500,000 a year in law enforcement grants. Again small potatoes, Miami-Dade's budget(pdf) is just shy of $6 billion, 31% of which is public safety, so Sessions just promised to increase their funding by 0.03%.
This administration has so little to crow over, so few actual accomplishments, that these stories are the best they got. Also, to NPR's Tamara Keith, Pence's Latin America tour did not "wind down" it was ended abruptly because Trump can't stop praising "very fine" white supremacists.
posted by peeedro at 1:30 PM on August 17, 2017 [18 favorites]
So the link says that Pence scored a "deliverable" by opening a $10 million per year pork market. US pork exports are about $6 billion per year(pdf), so this amounts to growing the market by 0.17%. That is such small potatoes, Brooklyn hipsters probably cure more artisanal guanciale in their tiny kitchens.
That lines up with something I noticed yesterday with the story about Sessions crowing about Miami-Dade County now cooperating with ICE detention standards. He said they would now be eligible in $500,000 a year in law enforcement grants. Again small potatoes, Miami-Dade's budget(pdf) is just shy of $6 billion, 31% of which is public safety, so Sessions just promised to increase their funding by 0.03%.
This administration has so little to crow over, so few actual accomplishments, that these stories are the best they got. Also, to NPR's Tamara Keith, Pence's Latin America tour did not "wind down" it was ended abruptly because Trump can't stop praising "very fine" white supremacists.
posted by peeedro at 1:30 PM on August 17, 2017 [18 favorites]
Bloomberg (The Guardian would like you to know the White House screwed them on this story): Trump Abandons Plan for Council on Infrastructure
This council disbanded and it hadn't even been formed yet.
posted by zachlipton at 1:31 PM on August 17, 2017 [13 favorites]
This council disbanded and it hadn't even been formed yet.
posted by zachlipton at 1:31 PM on August 17, 2017 [13 favorites]
What's the median survival rate for moderately advanced dementia patients, asking for a country,
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:31 PM on August 17, 2017 [33 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:31 PM on August 17, 2017 [33 favorites]
Trump Abandons Plan for Council on Infrastructure
It turns out Donald Trump isn't very good at construction, dealing with CEOs, negotiating, or telling people they're fired, but maybe he has other hidden talents
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:33 PM on August 17, 2017 [50 favorites]
It turns out Donald Trump isn't very good at construction, dealing with CEOs, negotiating, or telling people they're fired, but maybe he has other hidden talents
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:33 PM on August 17, 2017 [50 favorites]
Well, fuck everything.
Except apparently, OKCupid banning a Nazi for life.
Current mood: Illogically proud to have met my wife there.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:33 PM on August 17, 2017 [20 favorites]
Except apparently, OKCupid banning a Nazi for life.
Current mood: Illogically proud to have met my wife there.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:33 PM on August 17, 2017 [20 favorites]
Just saw a spreadsheet listing Civil War Memorials. 1488 Confederate memorials, 61 American. (My guess is they're counting statues on state land.)
That seems a little on the nose.
posted by joedan at 1:37 PM on August 17, 2017 [26 favorites]
That seems a little on the nose.
posted by joedan at 1:37 PM on August 17, 2017 [26 favorites]
The President of the United States is using a debunked myth to suggest that Muslims should be executed using bullets dipped in pig's blood; it must be Thursday
i never could get the hang of thursdays
posted by entropicamericana at 1:37 PM on August 17, 2017 [32 favorites]
i never could get the hang of thursdays
posted by entropicamericana at 1:37 PM on August 17, 2017 [32 favorites]
I don't think Donald Trump has any real plans or ideas about things. I think he's just a bag of bile and impulses. I don't think he 'thinks' he'll quit or 'plans' or 'worries' about anything at all. I think the fact that he had that piece of paper in his pocket to re-read his own statement at that press conference was the most extreme bit of planning he's had in ages. Just folding up a piece of paper and then remembering it was there. I don't even know how he manages to not urinate on himself he has such a lack of foresight, cause, and effect.
I have a cat who is more crafty. She has escaped our house three times by running by us as we open the door and I don't know if she turns invisible or what but we have no idea how she does it.
In no way am I saying he isn't a monster--in fact he's the scariest kind of monster. He could do or say anything. He *could* shoot a guy on fifth avenue. Mike Pence is a monster, but he's the sort of monster where you're like 'yeah, there goes Dracula being Dracula!'
posted by A Terrible Llama at 1:37 PM on August 17, 2017 [19 favorites]
I have a cat who is more crafty. She has escaped our house three times by running by us as we open the door and I don't know if she turns invisible or what but we have no idea how she does it.
In no way am I saying he isn't a monster--in fact he's the scariest kind of monster. He could do or say anything. He *could* shoot a guy on fifth avenue. Mike Pence is a monster, but he's the sort of monster where you're like 'yeah, there goes Dracula being Dracula!'
posted by A Terrible Llama at 1:37 PM on August 17, 2017 [19 favorites]
HuffPost by Oath! has a story about a German town that organized donations to anti-Nazi causes for each step marched by the neo-Nazi protestors.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:43 PM on August 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:43 PM on August 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
Current mood: Illogically proud to have met my wife there.
Mine too!
posted by rc3spencer at 1:44 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Mine too!
posted by rc3spencer at 1:44 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
describe 2017 in one sentence
Challenge retroactively accepted.
posted by flabdablet at 1:47 PM on August 17, 2017 [19 favorites]
Challenge retroactively accepted.
posted by flabdablet at 1:47 PM on August 17, 2017 [19 favorites]
WikiLeaks Turned Down Leaks on Russian Government During U.S. Presidential Campaign
In 2014, the BBC and other news outlets reported on the cache, which revealed details about Russian military and intelligence involvement in Ukraine. However, the information from that hack was less than half the data that later became available in 2016, when Assange turned it down.posted by tonycpsu at 1:50 PM on August 17, 2017 [56 favorites]
“We had several leaks sent to Wikileaks, including the Russian hack. It would have exposed Russian activities and shown WikiLeaks was not controlled by Russian security services,” the source who provided the messages wrote to FP. “Many Wikileaks staff and volunteers or their families suffered at the hands of Russian corruption and cruelty, we were sure Wikileaks would release it. Assange gave excuse after excuse.” [...]
But by 2016, WikiLeaks had switched course, focusing almost exclusively on Clinton and her campaign.
Approached later that year by the same source about data from an American security company, WikiLeaks again turned down the leak. “Is there an election angle? We’re not doing anything until after the election unless its [sic] fast or election related,” WikiLeaks wrote. “We don’t have the resources.”
Anything not connected to the election would be “diversionary,” WikiLeaks wrote.
zachlipton: USA Today's call for censure does strike me as a significant occasion. If the voice of the heartland and the nation's airport hotels is comfortable with that, maybe there's the slimmest chance it could happen, maybe.
Every "mainstream" message in support of anything to limit Trump's power or remove him from office normalizes that idea. And when it's normalized, it's easier to get more folks asking their MOCs, particularly their GOP reps, where they stand on those actions against the president.
This will not be a swift change, but the change in direction is coming. Maybe it'll come in 2018, perhaps before, possibly in 2020, but this cannot continue. This will not continue.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:51 PM on August 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
Every "mainstream" message in support of anything to limit Trump's power or remove him from office normalizes that idea. And when it's normalized, it's easier to get more folks asking their MOCs, particularly their GOP reps, where they stand on those actions against the president.
This will not be a swift change, but the change in direction is coming. Maybe it'll come in 2018, perhaps before, possibly in 2020, but this cannot continue. This will not continue.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:51 PM on August 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
Mar-A-Lago lost 2 big events today. Both the Cleveland Clinic and the American Cancer Society have cancelled their annual galas. The latter cite their values and commitment to diversity, the former gave no specific reason just said the decision was made after careful consideration.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:51 PM on August 17, 2017 [77 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:51 PM on August 17, 2017 [77 favorites]
BuzzFeed, Adrian Carrasquillo, Steve Bannon Detonates His Trump Survival Plan, Worrying Allies
Bannon has now made the calculus that he’s on thin ice regardless, and won't go down quietly, the first supporter said. "He's saying, 'I’m going to force you to fire me in a public way or we’re going to follow the agenda we were elected for.'"posted by zachlipton at 1:55 PM on August 17, 2017 [11 favorites]
"Bannon thinks he's going to be in the shit house," the second Bannon ally said. "But the reason I think he could survive this one is they had Charlottesville, they disbanded two [business advisory councils,] now they're going to fire the president’s chief strategist?"
Those in the orbit around Trump megadonors Robert and Rebekah Mercer, longtime Bannon allies who invested in Breitbart, are said to be worried about Bannon and the White House his departure would leave behind. The removal of Bannon, people in that world have said this week, would signal that the White House they worked to elect as the harbinger of political revolution was instead becoming "another Bush administration."
"They all told me, 'We did not do this to become establishment Republicans,'" the first Bannon ally said of recent conversations with people in the Mercers' circle. "We’re trying to blow up Washington, blow up a crony system."
But others close to the administration insist that Bannon will go — the question is when.
"Steve's fate is inexorable," said Roger Stone, a longtime Trump adviser who has had major issues with Bannon for months now.
"To me Steve Bannon is just a grave disappointment. This is a fellow I supported — I supported and continue to defend against anti-Semitism and bigotry charges," Stone continued. "But my disappointment is in his unwillingness to spend any capital and stand up and fight."
describe 2017 in one sentence
God I miss 2016.
posted by chris24 at 1:55 PM on August 17, 2017 [57 favorites]
God I miss 2016.
posted by chris24 at 1:55 PM on August 17, 2017 [57 favorites]
I think if you search your feelings these threads you'll find my money on "Trump resigns due to ~illness before any elections are lost or articles of impeachment are ratified" and it remains there.
This certainly meets the WWGCD ( What Would George Costanza Do ) criteria....
posted by mikelieman at 1:55 PM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
This certainly meets the WWGCD ( What Would George Costanza Do ) criteria....
posted by mikelieman at 1:55 PM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
I forget, is the American Cancer Society good to donate to, or are they one of the big corporate pink-washing types who don't actually help anyone?
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:56 PM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:56 PM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Mike Pence is a monster, but he's the sort of monster where you're like 'yeah, there goes Dracula being Dracula!'
Trump, by comparison, more resembles one of David Lynch's artfully shoddy special effects, with similarly unsettling results.
posted by flabdablet at 1:56 PM on August 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
Trump, by comparison, more resembles one of David Lynch's artfully shoddy special effects, with similarly unsettling results.
posted by flabdablet at 1:56 PM on August 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
Ditto the New Yorker
(Yes, the hands are tiny!)
I also like the subtle (possibly unintended) point that no matter how much hot air you blow, you won't move the sailboat you're sitting in.
Science!
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:00 PM on August 17, 2017 [18 favorites]
(Yes, the hands are tiny!)
I also like the subtle (possibly unintended) point that no matter how much hot air you blow, you won't move the sailboat you're sitting in.
Science!
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:00 PM on August 17, 2017 [18 favorites]
Mar-A-Lago lost 2 big events today. Both the Cleveland Clinic and the American Cancer Society have cancelled their annual galas. The latter cite their values and commitment to diversity, the former gave no specific reason just said the decision was made after careful consideration.
Now that's what I'm talking about. If anything can get him to resign, it's constant criticism, rejection, $$ losses, ridicule all around him, everywhere he goes. On TV, on news covers, at his resorts, etc. Constant reinforcement of "you are not loved, you are not popular, you are not the best," over and over.
It worked with the manufacturers.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:02 PM on August 17, 2017 [42 favorites]
Now that's what I'm talking about. If anything can get him to resign, it's constant criticism, rejection, $$ losses, ridicule all around him, everywhere he goes. On TV, on news covers, at his resorts, etc. Constant reinforcement of "you are not loved, you are not popular, you are not the best," over and over.
It worked with the manufacturers.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:02 PM on August 17, 2017 [42 favorites]
What if your sailboat is on a giant treadmill?
posted by notyou at 2:03 PM on August 17, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by notyou at 2:03 PM on August 17, 2017 [12 favorites]
A new thread, and a new drawing, this time of creepy dead eyed administration hack Stephen Miller.
Please feel free to share, download, what have you.
Hey phlegmco(tm), do you take requests because I need a drawing of a sculpture of angry freedmen glaring down at a comparatively small, sad confederate general on a pony, and my artist skills are limited to boxes and happy little tree doodles
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:03 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Please feel free to share, download, what have you.
Hey phlegmco(tm), do you take requests because I need a drawing of a sculpture of angry freedmen glaring down at a comparatively small, sad confederate general on a pony, and my artist skills are limited to boxes and happy little tree doodles
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:03 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
The parallels between Costanza and Trump ARE uncanny. Whoa.
What a difference a racist inheritance and bully mentors can make though.
"Real estate . . Sports . . interesting comments . . that's really not fair! . . those Unions! . .what about a talk show host?!! . . It's all POLITICS."
posted by rc3spencer at 2:03 PM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
What a difference a racist inheritance and bully mentors can make though.
"Real estate . . Sports . . interesting comments . . that's really not fair! . . those Unions! . .what about a talk show host?!! . . It's all POLITICS."
posted by rc3spencer at 2:03 PM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Challenge retroactively accepted.
How long have you been saving that one?
posted by grouse at 2:04 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
How long have you been saving that one?
posted by grouse at 2:04 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Apparently 279 days, 14 hours, and 33 minutes.
posted by grouse at 2:05 PM on August 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by grouse at 2:05 PM on August 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
notyou: What if your sailboat is on a giant treadmill?
That's the first thought that popped into my mind, as well :D
posted by syzygy at 2:05 PM on August 17, 2017
That's the first thought that popped into my mind, as well :D
posted by syzygy at 2:05 PM on August 17, 2017
GOP Senator wants Trump to be more presidential, hopes he can turn this thing around (rephrasing NPR's less direct message)
At least he supports removing Confederate memorials:
posted by filthy light thief at 2:06 PM on August 17, 2017 [11 favorites]
A leading Republican senator told reporters on Thursday that President Trump "has not yet been able to demonstrate the stability, nor some of the competence that he needs to demonstrate in order to be successful."Bob Corker, the man of infinite hope and faith in the Republican president. Hey, Bobby, you know what you can do to encourage radical change at the White House? IMPEACH TRUMP.
Tennessee Sen. Bob Corker was at the Rotary Club of Chattanooga and spoke to local reporters there. In video posted by Chloe Morrison of Nooga.com, Corker added, "And we need for him to be successful. Our nation needs for him to be successful."
Referring to the president's response to the violence that came with white supremacist demonstrations in Charlottesville, Va., last weekend, Corker said, "He also recently has not demonstrated that he understands the character of this nation. He has not demonstrated that he understands what has made this nation great and what it is today."
Corker also warned that without that, "our nation is going to go through great peril" and called for "radical change" at the White House.
At least he supports removing Confederate memorials:
"We want to keep our history. We don't want to wash away our history, but let's put it in a museum," Corker said. "And let's have the type of people at public buildings where we go to discuss aspiration things, let's have aspirational figures. Let's have people there who have brought out the best in our nation."As long as that wing of the museum is titled "Our Shameful Past (Which We Remember So That We Do Not Repeat It)" - or something like that.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:06 PM on August 17, 2017 [11 favorites]
As long as that wing of the museum is titled "Our Shameful Past (Which We Remember So That We Do Not Repeat It)" - or something like that.
Doesn't need to be a wing. It can be the whole museum. Try it, it's good for the soul!
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:21 PM on August 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
Doesn't need to be a wing. It can be the whole museum. Try it, it's good for the soul!
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:21 PM on August 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
I think not enough people commenting on the Bannon interview have reacted to the part where he called the alt right "clowns." (Though Rod Dreher commented on that.)
(Although... Trump's polls have actually ticked upward slightly since the end of last week. I feel like if I have to endure this kind of panic and dread I should at least get rewarded by seeing his polls drop. What is wrong with these people who aren't scared of Nazis or nuclear apocalypse?)
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:35 PM on August 17, 2017 [13 favorites]
He dismissed the far right as irrelevant and sidestepped his own role in cultivating it: “Ethno-nationalism — it’s losers. It’s a fringe element. I think the media plays it up too much, and we gotta help crush it, you know, uh, help crush it more.”It seems clear to me that Bannon saw how badly the North Korea stuff and the Charlottesville stuff was playing -- with everyone -- and decided to separate himself from that. That interview reads to me is "Don't blame me for the North Korea chest beating and don't blame me for the white supremacists either." He is trying to save his own brand as he sees Trump's appearing to go down in flames. He is reaching for the ejector seat.
“These guys are a collection of clowns,” he added.
(Although... Trump's polls have actually ticked upward slightly since the end of last week. I feel like if I have to endure this kind of panic and dread I should at least get rewarded by seeing his polls drop. What is wrong with these people who aren't scared of Nazis or nuclear apocalypse?)
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:35 PM on August 17, 2017 [13 favorites]
Boy this Rohrabacher-Assange thing is getting weird. emptywheel: ROHRABACHER CAN’T REMEMBER TALKING ASSANGE PARDON WITH TRUMP BUT IS SURE TRUMP WANTS MIND-BOGGLING INFO FROM JULIAN ASSANGE:
posted by notyou at 2:35 PM on August 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
The Daily Caller has written a new story, based on an interview with Rohrabacher. In it Rohrabacher first claimed that “he can’t remember” if he has spoken to anyone in the White House about a pardon for Assange.Any guesses about the mind-boggling info? Clinton's 33K missing emails? Tape of the Loretta Lynch tarmac meeting? Proof of collusion among members of the IC? Mueller's OKcupid login and password? What could Assange possibly have that would be compelling enough for the President to grant a pardon, but also relevant to his current political predicament?A pardon of Assange would have to come directly from President Donald Trump, and Rohrabacher told TheDC, “I can’t remember if I have spoken to anybody in the White House about this.”Apparently Rohrabacher has so many conversations with the White House that he can’t remember them all.
He goes on to suggest he hasn’t gotten the information he (in his statement) promised to divulge to Trump.The congressman has yet to receive the information that has been promised to him by Assange, but he said he is confident he will receive it.But — Rohrabacher is sure — the information his office thought he had this morning but which he doesn’t have any more is sure to be mind-boggling.“If I had to bet on it, I would bet that we are going to get the information that will be mind-boggling and of major historical significance,” Rohrabacher said. He said if it is significant enough, he will bring it directly to Trump.After which Rohrabacher, who can’t remember whether he has talked to anyone at the White House about this — much less the President!!! — asserts that “there has already been some indication that the president will be very anxious to hear what I have to say.”
posted by notyou at 2:35 PM on August 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
We’re trying to blow up Washington, blow up a crony system
And replace it with an even cronier one!
posted by kirkaracha at 2:40 PM on August 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
Bannon calls the alt-reich clowns, and the Juggalos are all "they don't even wear fucking face paint . . . "
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 2:43 PM on August 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 2:43 PM on August 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
""They all told me, 'We did not do this to become establishment Republicans,'" the first Bannon ally said of recent conversations with people in the Mercers' circle."
Amazing that people as connected as this think that whoever wins the mad dash for power to replace Bannon would be someone from the establishment rather than another Trumpist.
posted by feloniousmonk at 2:44 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Amazing that people as connected as this think that whoever wins the mad dash for power to replace Bannon would be someone from the establishment rather than another Trumpist.
posted by feloniousmonk at 2:44 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Any guesses about the mind-boggling info? Clinton's 33K missing emails? Tape of the Loretta Lynch tarmac meeting? Proof of collusion among members of the IC? Mueller's OKcupid login and password? What could Assange possibly have that would be compelling enough for the President to grant a pardon, but also relevant to his current political predicament?
In my recent perusals of TrumpWorld I have noticed a fair amount of noise about a "blockbuster" story about the leaked DNC email data. They're claiming that the leak was an inside job, and that there is evidence that a shadowy somebody altered the files to make them look like they'd passed through a Russian-language computer system. Maybe this is related to that?
posted by contraption at 2:46 PM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
In my recent perusals of TrumpWorld I have noticed a fair amount of noise about a "blockbuster" story about the leaked DNC email data. They're claiming that the leak was an inside job, and that there is evidence that a shadowy somebody altered the files to make them look like they'd passed through a Russian-language computer system. Maybe this is related to that?
posted by contraption at 2:46 PM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
This was mentioned upthread:
Drew Harwell and David Fahrenthold, WaPo: Cleveland Clinic, American Cancer Society cancel plans for galas at Mar-a-Lago
Drew Harwell and David Fahrenthold, WaPo: Cleveland Clinic, American Cancer Society cancel plans for galas at Mar-a-Lago
But the Florida club may face an even deeper crisis of confidence from the local business community. The head of the Palm Beach Chamber of Commerce, of which Mar-a-Lago is a member, called the business “morally reprehensible” on Thursday and said she expected more charities to defect.Alexandra Clough, Palm Beach Post: Palm Beach chamber head to charities: ‘Have a conscience’ on Mar-a-Lago
“The glitter, the shine has gone from the club,” chamber executive director Laurel Baker said, “and I can’t help but think there will be more fallout from it.”
Laurel Baker, executive director of the Palm Beach Chamber of Commerce, minced no words Thursday about whether charities should continue to hold their events at Mar-a-Lago this season following President Donald Trump’s statements about the recent violence in Charlottesville, Va.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:48 PM on August 17, 2017 [51 favorites]
“If you have a conscience, you’re really condoning bad behavior by continuing to be there,” Baker said. “Many say it’s the dollars (raised at the events) that count. Yes. But the integrity of any or organization rests on their sound decisions and stewardship.”
She added: ”Personally, I do not feel that supporting him, directly or indirectly, speaks well of any organization.”
wow, the Jefferson Davis Monument outside Phoenix has been literally tarred and feathered.
Hardcore!
posted by kirkaracha at 2:54 PM on August 17, 2017 [18 favorites]
Holy fuck, I'm going through and catching up on my Twitter feed since I was on a shoot this afternoon and I've reached the Pershing tweet and literally everyone keeps going on and on about how it's a myth, fake news, debunked, a lie, etc etc etc.
JESUS PEOPLE, THE MORE IMPORTANT PART IS HE'S ADVOCATING FOR MASS MURDER.
posted by chris24 at 2:54 PM on August 17, 2017 [61 favorites]
JESUS PEOPLE, THE MORE IMPORTANT PART IS HE'S ADVOCATING FOR MASS MURDER.
posted by chris24 at 2:54 PM on August 17, 2017 [61 favorites]
So literally going with "but her emails".
Fuuuuuck. Wake me in 2018.
posted by BS Artisan at 2:55 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Fuuuuuck. Wake me in 2018.
posted by BS Artisan at 2:55 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Any guesses about the mind-boggling info? Clinton's 33K missing emails? Tape of the Loretta Lynch tarmac meeting? Proof of collusion among members of the IC? Mueller's OKcupid login and password? What could Assange possibly have that would be compelling enough for the President to grant a pardon, but also relevant to his current political predicament?
In my recent perusals of TrumpWorld I have noticed a fair amount of noise about a "blockbuster" story about the leaked DNC email data. They're claiming that the leak was an inside job, and that there is evidence that a shadowy somebody altered the files to make them look like they'd passed through a Russian-language computer system. Maybe this is related to that?
And last night on the Rachel Maddow show there was a segment (auto-play video) about a story that I guess they've been pushing on Fox News for a few weeks about Hillary Clinton's campaign colluding with Ukrainians. Even better, apparently that story is based off of supposed stolen emails that were initially posted on a website tied to Russian military intelligence.
posted by GalaxieFiveHundred at 2:57 PM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
In my recent perusals of TrumpWorld I have noticed a fair amount of noise about a "blockbuster" story about the leaked DNC email data. They're claiming that the leak was an inside job, and that there is evidence that a shadowy somebody altered the files to make them look like they'd passed through a Russian-language computer system. Maybe this is related to that?
And last night on the Rachel Maddow show there was a segment (auto-play video) about a story that I guess they've been pushing on Fox News for a few weeks about Hillary Clinton's campaign colluding with Ukrainians. Even better, apparently that story is based off of supposed stolen emails that were initially posted on a website tied to Russian military intelligence.
posted by GalaxieFiveHundred at 2:57 PM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
So this is a blatant self-link, and if mods want to delete it, I won't gripe, but this is the conversation I had with Johny Isakson's staffers today in deep red Georgia. Fuck these people. Seriously, fuck them.
A Bad Week to Be a Parent
posted by staggering termagant at 2:57 PM on August 17, 2017 [116 favorites]
A Bad Week to Be a Parent
posted by staggering termagant at 2:57 PM on August 17, 2017 [116 favorites]
In my recent perusals of TrumpWorld I have noticed a fair amount of noise about a "blockbuster" story about the leaked DNC email data. They're claiming that the leak was an inside job, and that there is evidence that a shadowy somebody altered the files to make them look like they'd passed through a Russian-language computer system. Maybe this is related to that?
Probably this but in the dumbest way, like "well Assange says his contact was from the DNC so who are you gonna believe, America?" with no proof.
posted by jason_steakums at 3:00 PM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Probably this but in the dumbest way, like "well Assange says his contact was from the DNC so who are you gonna believe, America?" with no proof.
posted by jason_steakums at 3:00 PM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
(Occasional self-links in comments are generally fine. It's really just on the front page, or weird spammy/axegrindy stuff, that we'd worry about there.)
posted by cortex at 3:00 PM on August 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by cortex at 3:00 PM on August 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
zachlipton: "Bannon thinks he's going to be in the shit house," the second Bannon ally said. "But the reason I think he could survive this one is they had Charlottesville, they disbanded two [business advisory councils,] now they're going to fire the president’s chief strategist?"
You missed a few key words there: He's going to fire his "racist, bigoted chief strategist."
Those in the orbit around Trump megadonors Robert and Rebekah Mercer, longtime Bannon allies who invested in Breitbart, are said to be worried about Bannon and the White House his departure would leave behind. The removal of Bannon, people in that world have said this week, would signal that the White House they worked to elect as the harbinger of political revolution was instead becoming "another Bush administration."
Oh noez, less open racism, bigotry, xenophobia, homophobia, transphobia, and generally less deplorable? At this point, sign me up! (Reminder: Mercer was called“a libertarian—he despises the Republican establishment,” and added, “He thinks that the leaders are corrupt crooks, and that they’ve ruined the country.”
Mercer sounds like the uber technological engineer with engineers disease, which turned into a virulent case of racist libertarianism.
posted by filthy light thief at 3:00 PM on August 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
You missed a few key words there: He's going to fire his "racist, bigoted chief strategist."
Those in the orbit around Trump megadonors Robert and Rebekah Mercer, longtime Bannon allies who invested in Breitbart, are said to be worried about Bannon and the White House his departure would leave behind. The removal of Bannon, people in that world have said this week, would signal that the White House they worked to elect as the harbinger of political revolution was instead becoming "another Bush administration."
Oh noez, less open racism, bigotry, xenophobia, homophobia, transphobia, and generally less deplorable? At this point, sign me up! (Reminder: Mercer was called“a libertarian—he despises the Republican establishment,” and added, “He thinks that the leaders are corrupt crooks, and that they’ve ruined the country.”
Mercer sounds like the uber technological engineer with engineers disease, which turned into a virulent case of racist libertarianism.
posted by filthy light thief at 3:00 PM on August 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
Drew Harwell and David Fahrenthold, WaPo: Cleveland Clinic, American Cancer Society cancel plans for galas at Mar-a-Lago
Even more dramatic pullquote:
posted by zachlipton at 3:03 PM on August 17, 2017 [87 favorites]
Even more dramatic pullquote:
Baker, head of the Palm Beach chamber, spoke vigorously against Mar-a-Lago on Thursday, saying that her directive to nearby charities was, “If you’re looking at your mission statement, can you honestly say having an event at Mar-a-Lago, given all that has transpired, is the best stewardship of your efforts?”She's saying this about a member of her own association. Good for her!
“The club is a member of the chamber. But right is right,” she added in an interview with The Post. “My mantra this week is from Dante: ‘The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis.’ Especially for nonprofits. Especially for groups who help people who can’t help themselves.”
posted by zachlipton at 3:03 PM on August 17, 2017 [87 favorites]
Racist libertarianism has high rates of comorbidity with engineer's disease
posted by Andrhia at 3:03 PM on August 17, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by Andrhia at 3:03 PM on August 17, 2017 [29 favorites]
Libertarianism is a flimsy camo for covert white supremacy, & it's rampant in the construction industry.
source: been on many many construction sites installing cabinets
posted by yoga at 3:10 PM on August 17, 2017 [25 favorites]
source: been on many many construction sites installing cabinets
posted by yoga at 3:10 PM on August 17, 2017 [25 favorites]
The Economist cover didn't pull any punches, neither did the article in the magazine.
Donald Trump has no grasp of what it means to be president
posted by waitingtoderail at 3:14 PM on August 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
Donald Trump has no grasp of what it means to be president
posted by waitingtoderail at 3:14 PM on August 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
Anything not connected to the election would be “diversionary,” WikiLeaks wrote.
I did not think it was possible for me to hate Assange more but lo it appears I have unplumbed depths.
posted by corb at 3:14 PM on August 17, 2017 [34 favorites]
I did not think it was possible for me to hate Assange more but lo it appears I have unplumbed depths.
posted by corb at 3:14 PM on August 17, 2017 [34 favorites]
Donald Trump has no grasp of what it means to be president
If only somebody had said so two years ago
Man, what if
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:16 PM on August 17, 2017 [44 favorites]
If only somebody had said so two years ago
Man, what if
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:16 PM on August 17, 2017 [44 favorites]
Err, they did. Not to relitigate the past, but most newspapers, including the Economist, spoke up against Trump.
posted by Tobu at 3:20 PM on August 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Tobu at 3:20 PM on August 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
“Many great American soldiers, both of the North and South, died at this spot. The casualties were so great that the water would turn red and thus became known as ‘The River of Blood.’ It is my great honor to have preserved this important section of the Potomac River!” [real quote, fake battle]
Donald Trump has Civil War plaque at his golf course commemorating battle that never happened [SLGolf Digest]
posted by box at 3:21 PM on August 17, 2017 [29 favorites]
Donald Trump has Civil War plaque at his golf course commemorating battle that never happened [SLGolf Digest]
posted by box at 3:21 PM on August 17, 2017 [29 favorites]
I am so fucking sick of hearing personal anecdotes about how Bannon and Trump aren't privately racist.
Anyone willing to develop and embolden an army of racists radicalized at home, in "church," and online IS RACIST. Full stop.
posted by xyzzy at 3:25 PM on August 17, 2017 [11 favorites]
Anyone willing to develop and embolden an army of racists radicalized at home, in "church," and online IS RACIST. Full stop.
posted by xyzzy at 3:25 PM on August 17, 2017 [11 favorites]
BTW, do the Secret Service really hate golf? Those vast open spaces with nearby copses of trees and undergrowth, very specific locations which the game obliges the target to visit... seems like a nightmare from a security perspective.
posted by Coventry at 3:26 PM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Coventry at 3:26 PM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Maybe they don't hate it, but they're thinking hard about it.
posted by Coventry at 3:29 PM on August 17, 2017
posted by Coventry at 3:29 PM on August 17, 2017
I just sent Laurel Baker (Executive Director of the Palm Beach Chamber of Commerce) an email thanking her for taking a strong and courageous stand against intolerance and bigotry. She responded a minute later with a 'thank you' note.
posted by syzygy at 3:31 PM on August 17, 2017 [42 favorites]
posted by syzygy at 3:31 PM on August 17, 2017 [42 favorites]
oh wow who would have expected a chamber of commerce to have terrible stances
posted by entropicamericana at 3:33 PM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by entropicamericana at 3:33 PM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Generally, the Secret Service is very (almost actively) unconcerned with inconveniencing the public, so working with the Coast Guard and DHS one of their solutions to the golf problem until recently had been to shut down the Potomac River. They are revising that plan under pressure.
posted by AndrewInDC at 3:34 PM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by AndrewInDC at 3:34 PM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Holy fuck, I'm going through and catching up on my Twitter feed since I was on a shoot this afternoon and I've reached the Pershing tweet and literally everyone keeps going on and on about how it's a myth, fake news, debunked, a lie, etc etc etc.
JESUS PEOPLE, THE MORE IMPORTANT PART IS HE'S ADVOCATING FOR MASS MURDER.
(Canadian) National Treasure Daniel Dale, the Washington correspondent for the Toronto Star: Donald Trump endorses racist mass murder as an anti-terror tactic, citing fake story
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:40 PM on August 17, 2017 [54 favorites]
JESUS PEOPLE, THE MORE IMPORTANT PART IS HE'S ADVOCATING FOR MASS MURDER.
(Canadian) National Treasure Daniel Dale, the Washington correspondent for the Toronto Star: Donald Trump endorses racist mass murder as an anti-terror tactic, citing fake story
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:40 PM on August 17, 2017 [54 favorites]
I knew he'd be disastrous, winning the Worst Ever award hands down. Yet, right on the heels of reckless threats to a rogue nation with nuclear weapons, we are reaching depths of shamefulness this week that I never foresaw. I am both furious and terrified, as a Jewish person and as an American who thinks this country must stand for equality and human rights and liberty, while Trump is an elemental threat to all of these things. Just today we have his weepy worship of monuments to slavery and racism, his willingness to again peddle the obscene suggestion that Muslim people be shot with bullets dipped in pig's blood -- just today!
I have been seriously wondering if the election results were skewed in the swing states since the Russian tampering investigation began. And I have believed for months now that at a minimum his own blatant obstruction of justice would lead to Trump's early ouster. But you know, I am not willing to wait. This man has to go. Anything, including Pence, is preferable.
posted by bearwife at 3:42 PM on August 17, 2017 [14 favorites]
I have been seriously wondering if the election results were skewed in the swing states since the Russian tampering investigation began. And I have believed for months now that at a minimum his own blatant obstruction of justice would lead to Trump's early ouster. But you know, I am not willing to wait. This man has to go. Anything, including Pence, is preferable.
posted by bearwife at 3:42 PM on August 17, 2017 [14 favorites]
I'm starting to think I should pony up another $5 and my username would be WHAT A FUCKING ASSHOLE
posted by yoga at 3:43 PM on August 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by yoga at 3:43 PM on August 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
Anything sufficient to shift him probably fatally compromises Pence as well. If not we work on getting rid of him too.
The work isn't done until the lot of them are gone and failures of democracy that let them get in are fixed.
posted by Artw at 3:44 PM on August 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
The work isn't done until the lot of them are gone and failures of democracy that let them get in are fixed.
posted by Artw at 3:44 PM on August 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
(Canadian) National Treasure Daniel Dale, the Washington correspondent for the Toronto Star
posted by saturday_morning at 3:48 PM on August 17, 2017 [85 favorites]
WASHINGTON—Returning to the anti-Muslim bigotry that was a hallmark of his campaign, U.S. President Donald Trump once again endorsed a fictional U.S. massacre of Muslim terrorists (...) This time, Trump said the non-massacre deterred terror for “35 years,” adding an extra 10 years to the original lie.GOD why can't the Times write like this
posted by saturday_morning at 3:48 PM on August 17, 2017 [85 favorites]
entropicamericana oh wow who would have expected a chamber of commerce to have terrible stances
What? The executive director of the Palm Beach Chamber of Commerce is stridently admonishing charities to do their fundraising somewhere other than Mar-a-Lago. That's exactly the opposite stance I would have expected from a chamber of commerce.
posted by syzygy at 3:55 PM on August 17, 2017 [22 favorites]
What? The executive director of the Palm Beach Chamber of Commerce is stridently admonishing charities to do their fundraising somewhere other than Mar-a-Lago. That's exactly the opposite stance I would have expected from a chamber of commerce.
posted by syzygy at 3:55 PM on August 17, 2017 [22 favorites]
Perhaps the only good thing that ever comes from the Trump presidency is lifting the veil so that the still-seething cauldron of racism and racial hatred cannot be denied or downplayed even by privileged whites. Racist monuments are being torn down all over, due in large part to Trump's inability to maintain - for even 48 hours - the thinnest pretense of being a decent human being in the face of a Nazi terror attack.
Sometime in the future, a mother will be leading her child beside a Southern courthouse, stop and point at a rose garden where a Confederate statue used to stand, and comment on how pretty the flowers are.
posted by darkstar at 3:59 PM on August 17, 2017 [33 favorites]
Sometime in the future, a mother will be leading her child beside a Southern courthouse, stop and point at a rose garden where a Confederate statue used to stand, and comment on how pretty the flowers are.
posted by darkstar at 3:59 PM on August 17, 2017 [33 favorites]
It seems clear to me that Bannon saw how badly the North Korea stuff and the Charlottesville stuff was playing -- with everyone -- and decided to separate himself from that. That interview reads to me is "Don't blame me for the North Korea chest beating and don't blame me for the white supremacists either." He is trying to save his own brand as he sees Trump's appearing to go down in flames. He is reaching for the ejector seat.
Actually, I heard an interesting take on this from an NPR pundit - Bannon may be trying to keep the public focus on identity politics to bait the Dems into getting all caught up in that - so he can then turn around and go to Trump's base and say "look at those Dems, they're so caught up in this-ism and that-ism and aren't spending ANY time talking about trying to bring back jobs, amirite?"
Maybe he is that devious and maybe he isn't. But it may be wise for the Dems to also talk up economy a little just to cover that base.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:00 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Actually, I heard an interesting take on this from an NPR pundit - Bannon may be trying to keep the public focus on identity politics to bait the Dems into getting all caught up in that - so he can then turn around and go to Trump's base and say "look at those Dems, they're so caught up in this-ism and that-ism and aren't spending ANY time talking about trying to bring back jobs, amirite?"
Maybe he is that devious and maybe he isn't. But it may be wise for the Dems to also talk up economy a little just to cover that base.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:00 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Between the Federalist and now this, I think VeryFineNazis has done serious damage. When you've lost Julius Krein from American Affairs...
NYT: I Voted for Trump. And I Sorely Regret It
posted by chris24 at 4:05 PM on August 17, 2017 [32 favorites]
NYT: I Voted for Trump. And I Sorely Regret It
From the very start of his run, one of the most serious charges against Mr. Trump was that he panders to racists. Many of his supporters, myself included, managed to convince ourselves that his more outrageous comments — such as the Judge Gonzalo Curiel controversy or his initial hesitance to disavow David Duke’s endorsement — were merely Bidenesque gaffes committed during the heat of a campaign.The whole thing is worth reading and while I disagree with some of his points on the way to his agreeable conclusion, it's the sort of thing your Trump/Republican relatives might respond to.
It is now clear that we were deluding ourselves. Either Mr. Trump is genuinely sympathetic to the David Duke types, or he is so obtuse as to be utterly incapable of learning from his worst mistakes. Either way, he continues to prove his harshest critics right.
Mr. Trump once boasted that he could shoot someone in the street and not lose voters. Well, someone was just killed in the street by a white supremacist in Charlottesville. His refusal this weekend to specifically and immediately denounce the groups responsible for this intolerable violence was both morally disgusting and monumentally stupid. In this, Mr. Trump failed perhaps the easiest imaginable test of presidential leadership. Rather than advance a vision of national unity that he claims to represent, his indefensible equivocation can only inflame the most vicious forces of division within our country.
posted by chris24 at 4:05 PM on August 17, 2017 [32 favorites]
oh, it's plain to me what the republican job plan is - they're going to put us all to work guarding statues
posted by pyramid termite at 4:05 PM on August 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 4:05 PM on August 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
so that the still-seething cauldron of racism and racial hatred cannot be denied or downplayed even by privileged whites
That is not a smart challenge to issue to privileged whites.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:06 PM on August 17, 2017 [11 favorites]
That is not a smart challenge to issue to privileged whites.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:06 PM on August 17, 2017 [11 favorites]
GOD why can't the Times write like this
You should remember that 1) Daniel Dale was on the Rob Ford beat so he's used to writing about this kind of stuff, 2) The Toronto Star isn't Canada's newspaper of record (even though it probably has the highest circulation) so it doesn't need to seem as neutral or authoritative, and 3) we're pretty good at pointing out this kind of stuff when it happens outside of Canada.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 4:08 PM on August 17, 2017 [19 favorites]
You should remember that 1) Daniel Dale was on the Rob Ford beat so he's used to writing about this kind of stuff, 2) The Toronto Star isn't Canada's newspaper of record (even though it probably has the highest circulation) so it doesn't need to seem as neutral or authoritative, and 3) we're pretty good at pointing out this kind of stuff when it happens outside of Canada.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 4:08 PM on August 17, 2017 [19 favorites]
The Daily Stormer lost its .ru. My schadenfreude is immense.
posted by xyzzy at 4:09 PM on August 17, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 4:09 PM on August 17, 2017 [18 favorites]
The Toronto Star isn't Canada's newspaper of record (even though it probably has the highest circulation)
The Globe and Mail actually does have a slightly higher distribution, it's only the fact that it doesn't publish on Sunday that lets the Star squeak by.
posted by Justinian at 4:13 PM on August 17, 2017
The Globe and Mail actually does have a slightly higher distribution, it's only the fact that it doesn't publish on Sunday that lets the Star squeak by.
posted by Justinian at 4:13 PM on August 17, 2017
the Jefferson Davis Memorial Highway Monument outside Phoenix has been literally tarred and feathered.
Sic semper tyrannis.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 4:24 PM on August 17, 2017 [18 favorites]
Sic semper tyrannis.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 4:24 PM on August 17, 2017 [18 favorites]
The executive director of the Palm Beach Chamber of Commerce is stridently admonishing charities to do their fundraising somewhere other than Mar-a-Lago.
I don't have much respect for people who continued using Mar-a-Lago after the campaign, and even less for anyone who started after the campaign.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:29 PM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
House Republican calls for taking confederate monuments off pedestals
Confederate monuments in the U.S. Capitol should either be removed from the building and relocated to a museum or battlefield, or be appropriately contextualized as a symbol of slavery, a Republican lawmaker said Thursday.posted by kirkaracha at 4:30 PM on August 17, 2017 [60 favorites]
“When they’re in the Capitol, they’re almost in a place of reverence. And I don’t think that we should revere what those guys stood for. I think the right side won the war,” Rep. Tom Rooney (R-Fla.) told The Hill in an interview.
I Voted for Trump. And I Sorely Regret It
Because you are an idiot.
He criticized corporations for offshoring jobs, attacked financial-industry executives for avoiding taxes and bemoaned America’s reliance on economic bubbles over the last few decades.While offshoring jobs and avoiding taxes himself.
From the very start of his run, one of the most serious charges against Mr. Trump was that he panders to racists. Many of his supporters, myself included, managed to convince ourselves that his more outrageous comments — such as the Judge Gonzalo Curiel controversy or his initial hesitance to disavow David Duke’s endorsement — were merely Bidenesque gaffes committed during the heat of a campaign.And attacked the Khans. And didn't rent to black people. And hid "lazy" African-American dealers from the whales at his casinos. And questioned Obama's legitimacy. And said "look at my African American over here."
Also, a gaffe is a misstatement, not something you say over and over again.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:41 PM on August 17, 2017 [38 favorites]
kirkiracha I don't have much respect...
How is this in any way relevant to my comment? I don't have respect for anyone who gives a dime to TrumpCos.
posted by syzygy at 4:42 PM on August 17, 2017
How is this in any way relevant to my comment? I don't have respect for anyone who gives a dime to TrumpCos.
posted by syzygy at 4:42 PM on August 17, 2017
The CEO of Ancestry.com, a popular genealogy website, has issued a statement, Standing United, condemning white supremacists. DNA is playing increasingly important role in genealogy and you can imagine why some groups would look to the DNA tests that Ancestry sells and actively markets.
posted by vac2003 at 4:46 PM on August 17, 2017 [10 favorites]
The entire Ancestry family is horrified and appalled by the tragic events that occurred in Charlottesville. We not only condemn the violence that occurred but are deeply disturbed by the ideologies of the white supremacist groups who marched there.As is too often the case, I disobeyed the injunction not to read the comments. Many are supportive but all too many make me feel ill.
As a company, we believe in the importance of diversity, unity and acceptance, as well as the fundamental truth that we are all more alike than not. Our purpose as a company, and the intent of our products, is to bring our shared diversity into the spotlight in order to promote understanding and equality. To be clear, we are against any use of our product in an attempt to promote divisiveness or justify twisted ideologies. [emphasis mine].
posted by vac2003 at 4:46 PM on August 17, 2017 [10 favorites]
The Daily Stormer lost its .ru. My schadenfreude is immense.
I swear to God I felt this while walking down the street
posted by schadenfrau at 4:47 PM on August 17, 2017 [33 favorites]
I swear to God I felt this while walking down the street
posted by schadenfrau at 4:47 PM on August 17, 2017 [33 favorites]
As a purely tactical matter I'm for welcoming people who realize Trump is terrible, incompetent person and regret their votes. Because the most important thing is to win in 2018 and 2020. But inside I'm definitely calling them all sorts of unprintable names.
posted by Justinian at 4:49 PM on August 17, 2017 [51 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 4:49 PM on August 17, 2017 [51 favorites]
Do we know what next week's theme is yet? Like, are they dialing it back to Casual Racism Week or are they doubling down and its Nazi "Cosplay" Week?
If nothing's locked in yet may I suggest "oh God they're crawling up my arms & legs, oh dear God no aaaaauuuuuuugggghhh!" Week?
posted by scalefree at 4:54 PM on August 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
If nothing's locked in yet may I suggest "oh God they're crawling up my arms & legs, oh dear God no aaaaauuuuuuugggghhh!" Week?
posted by scalefree at 4:54 PM on August 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
applause for staggering termagent's phone convo with staffer for Sen Isakson (GA)
“So, I’m going to tell my kids that I called Senator Isakson’s people and they said that so long as the president is passing things that are good for the economy, we shouldn’t worry about Nazis.”posted by spamandkimchi at 4:55 PM on August 17, 2017 [84 favorites]
“LOOK,” said the staffer, sounding mad for the first time, “If the president tries to enact policies that are PROVEN to support white supremacy, Senator Isakson would vote against them.”
“OK. So, like, if the president decides to come out with some kind of bill declaring it ‘Hug a Nazi Day,’ Senator Isakson would definitely vote against that.”
“I can’t speak for the Senator,” said the Senator’s representative, “but yes, I feel that Senator Isakson would definitely vote against ‘Hug a Nazi Day’.”
“Great,” I said. “I will tell my kids that Isakson is not planning to force people to hug Nazis. Is that accurate?”
“Yes,” said the staffer in a sort of choked voice.
cw: image of a lynching
102 years ago today, Leo Frank, a Jewish man, was lynched in Atlanta. His lynching was immediately followed by the official refounding of the KKK.
I am a white Christian person who lives in Atlanta. This is my history. This is my heritage.
posted by hydropsyche at 4:56 PM on August 17, 2017 [27 favorites]
102 years ago today, Leo Frank, a Jewish man, was lynched in Atlanta. His lynching was immediately followed by the official refounding of the KKK.
I am a white Christian person who lives in Atlanta. This is my history. This is my heritage.
posted by hydropsyche at 4:56 PM on August 17, 2017 [27 favorites]
Taking down a statue is symbolic violence.
Um...I disagree completely. Violence against actual human people and taking down a statue are not analogous, never mind the same.
People died, ffs. How do you even compare that to removing a statue with a straight face? People are not reacting violently to the removal of them because of some intrinsic humanity of statues. They're reacting violently because they hate anyone that isn't white and removing the statues reinforces that they lost and they were wrong and most Americans think they should feel shame for their past, not pride.
posted by greermahoney at 5:16 PM on August 17, 2017 [17 favorites]
Um...I disagree completely. Violence against actual human people and taking down a statue are not analogous, never mind the same.
People died, ffs. How do you even compare that to removing a statue with a straight face? People are not reacting violently to the removal of them because of some intrinsic humanity of statues. They're reacting violently because they hate anyone that isn't white and removing the statues reinforces that they lost and they were wrong and most Americans think they should feel shame for their past, not pride.
posted by greermahoney at 5:16 PM on August 17, 2017 [17 favorites]
Guys, I scrolled up, but we all know that Bannon knew goddamn well he was on the record, right? And that pretending like he doesn't care about white supremacists gives Trump fans their plausible deniability back?
posted by Anonymous at 5:17 PM on August 17, 2017
posted by Anonymous at 5:17 PM on August 17, 2017
Saturday Night Live's summer Weekend Update run starts tonight at 9pm Eastern.
Started last week, but there is a new one tonight, yes.
posted by Etrigan at 5:20 PM on August 17, 2017
Started last week, but there is a new one tonight, yes.
posted by Etrigan at 5:20 PM on August 17, 2017
I Voted for Trump. And I Sorely Regret It
---
Because you are an idiot.
---
As a purely tactical matter I'm for welcoming people who realize Trump is terrible, incompetent person and regret their votes. Because the most important thing is to win in 2018 and 2020. But inside I'm definitely calling them all sorts of unprintable names.
I was typing a response but Justinian summarizes it nicely. Even with all the anger and judgment and frustration I have with the people who enabled him, we need a chunk of them to get rid of him before 2020. And slamming them for finally admitting such a monumental fuckup - which human nature, the bigger the stupidity the harder it is to admit it - is only going to harden many against changing sides. So maybe we talk about how we deal with Rs fleeing Trump. Because it's going to happen more and more.
I am certainly guilty of being unforgiving in this regard, but started thinking about my approach on this after Yashar Ali from MoJo tweeted on it this afternoon. Anyway, not sure the answer, but I want him gone more than anything, even an "Motherfucker, I told you so."
@yashar
Some friendly advice, whether you're a Dem or a Rep, if someone agrees with you the worst thing to say is "what took you so long?"
- Or not accept them because they arrived to a point of agreement after years, take what you can.
- Perfect example, when someone says something you've thought for a year or two and you respond "Now you're realizing this?" It's lame.
- This is what I'm talking about in this tweet, general advice, for both parties, this is not the approach that helps - @murkythts: Oh NOW his moral authority is compromised?!?!
@NateSilver538 Retweeted Yashar Ali
My version of this: In general, people don't change their minds often enough, so don't go overboard on criticizing people when they do.
posted by chris24 at 5:20 PM on August 17, 2017 [49 favorites]
---
Because you are an idiot.
---
As a purely tactical matter I'm for welcoming people who realize Trump is terrible, incompetent person and regret their votes. Because the most important thing is to win in 2018 and 2020. But inside I'm definitely calling them all sorts of unprintable names.
I was typing a response but Justinian summarizes it nicely. Even with all the anger and judgment and frustration I have with the people who enabled him, we need a chunk of them to get rid of him before 2020. And slamming them for finally admitting such a monumental fuckup - which human nature, the bigger the stupidity the harder it is to admit it - is only going to harden many against changing sides. So maybe we talk about how we deal with Rs fleeing Trump. Because it's going to happen more and more.
I am certainly guilty of being unforgiving in this regard, but started thinking about my approach on this after Yashar Ali from MoJo tweeted on it this afternoon. Anyway, not sure the answer, but I want him gone more than anything, even an "Motherfucker, I told you so."
@yashar
Some friendly advice, whether you're a Dem or a Rep, if someone agrees with you the worst thing to say is "what took you so long?"
- Or not accept them because they arrived to a point of agreement after years, take what you can.
- Perfect example, when someone says something you've thought for a year or two and you respond "Now you're realizing this?" It's lame.
- This is what I'm talking about in this tweet, general advice, for both parties, this is not the approach that helps - @murkythts: Oh NOW his moral authority is compromised?!?!
@NateSilver538 Retweeted Yashar Ali
My version of this: In general, people don't change their minds often enough, so don't go overboard on criticizing people when they do.
posted by chris24 at 5:20 PM on August 17, 2017 [49 favorites]
Baker, head of the Palm Beach chamber, spoke vigorously against Mar-a-Lago on Thursday
Baker has some work to do at home. The Palm Beach Zoo, The Palm Beach Jr. Assembly, The Palm Beach Police Dept. Foundation, The Autism Project of Palm Beach County, and Palm Beach County GOP are all going ahead with their annual galas at Mar-A-Lago. Along with the Susan G. Komen Foundation, The Salvation Army, and the American Cancer Society. David Farenthold has a list
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:31 PM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Baker has some work to do at home. The Palm Beach Zoo, The Palm Beach Jr. Assembly, The Palm Beach Police Dept. Foundation, The Autism Project of Palm Beach County, and Palm Beach County GOP are all going ahead with their annual galas at Mar-A-Lago. Along with the Susan G. Komen Foundation, The Salvation Army, and the American Cancer Society. David Farenthold has a list
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:31 PM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Guys, I scrolled up, but we all know that Bannon knew goddamn well he was on the record, right? And that pretending like he doesn't care about white supremacists gives Trump fans their plausible deniability back?
Yes. It also calls into question Scaramucci's earlier incident it was clearly based on. It strains credulity that two men in similar positions who work together could make the same rookie mistake weeks apart.
posted by scalefree at 5:36 PM on August 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
Yes. It also calls into question Scaramucci's earlier incident it was clearly based on. It strains credulity that two men in similar positions who work together could make the same rookie mistake weeks apart.
posted by scalefree at 5:36 PM on August 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
What do you mean, calls into question?
posted by saturday_morning at 5:37 PM on August 17, 2017
posted by saturday_morning at 5:37 PM on August 17, 2017
Yesterday the excellent science writer Sharon Begley reported that 3 congressional Democrats asked a Yale psychiatrist to consult on forming an expert panel to advise on assessing President Trump’s mental health.
Yale’s Dr. Bandy Lee told STAT that over the last few weeks members of Congress or their staff have asked her to discuss how members might convene psychiatrists, psychologists, and other mental health professionals “to review the president’s mental health, and review it on a periodic basis.” The closed meeting is expected to take place in September, she said.
...On Friday, Lee and four other psychiatrists sent a letter to all members of the U.S. Senate and House arguing that Trump exhibits “severe emotional impediments that … present a grave threat to international security,” and asking Congress to “take immediate steps to establish a commission to determine his fitness for office.” The letter signers are staunch Trump opponents and believe his presidency should end.
Lee and the other signers of the new letter, including Dr. Lance Dodes, recently retired from Harvard Medical School, argue that Trump’s “alarming patterns of impulsive, reckless, and narcissistic behavior — regardless of diagnosis … put the world at risk,” posing an “imminent danger” that psychiatrists are ethically obligated to warn about.
There's more, and none of it is upbeat.
posted by Bella Donna at 5:46 PM on August 17, 2017 [28 favorites]
Yale’s Dr. Bandy Lee told STAT that over the last few weeks members of Congress or their staff have asked her to discuss how members might convene psychiatrists, psychologists, and other mental health professionals “to review the president’s mental health, and review it on a periodic basis.” The closed meeting is expected to take place in September, she said.
...On Friday, Lee and four other psychiatrists sent a letter to all members of the U.S. Senate and House arguing that Trump exhibits “severe emotional impediments that … present a grave threat to international security,” and asking Congress to “take immediate steps to establish a commission to determine his fitness for office.” The letter signers are staunch Trump opponents and believe his presidency should end.
Lee and the other signers of the new letter, including Dr. Lance Dodes, recently retired from Harvard Medical School, argue that Trump’s “alarming patterns of impulsive, reckless, and narcissistic behavior — regardless of diagnosis … put the world at risk,” posing an “imminent danger” that psychiatrists are ethically obligated to warn about.
There's more, and none of it is upbeat.
posted by Bella Donna at 5:46 PM on August 17, 2017 [28 favorites]
I don't even comment in these threads anymore, but I am commenting to assure you there was zero doubt.
Also, hi everyone!
posted by mochapickle at 5:47 PM on August 17, 2017 [14 favorites]
Also, hi everyone!
posted by mochapickle at 5:47 PM on August 17, 2017 [14 favorites]
“I will tell my kids that Isakson is not planning to force people to hug Nazis. Is that accurate?”
Goddamn. I really hope that staffer rethinks his life choices about what he's doing and what he's having to defend.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:50 PM on August 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
Goddamn. I really hope that staffer rethinks his life choices about what he's doing and what he's having to defend.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:50 PM on August 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
@maggieNYT (sorry this is so typo-ridden):
posted by zachlipton at 5:55 PM on August 17, 2017 [48 favorites]
Story coming soon - James Murdoch, son of Ripert +chair of 21st Century Fox, rips Potus response to Charlottesville, pledges $1 mill to ADLAnd ACLU national now says they won't defend hate groups seeking to march armed, echoing the statement yesterday of the California branches. They'll continue to evaluate requests for legal help on a case-by-case basis.
James Murdoch, in personal email to friends, writes, "what we watched this last week in Charlottesville and the reaction to it ..." 1/2
2/2 "...y the President of the United States concern all of us as Americans and free people." james is less politically visible than KRM
"These events remind us all why vigilance against hate and bigotry is an eternal obligation - a necessary discipline for ..."
"...he preservation of our way of life and our ideals."
posted by zachlipton at 5:55 PM on August 17, 2017 [48 favorites]
That civil war monument spreadsheet is based on Wikipedia and their article on Union Monuments is very incomplete compared to the Confederate one. I just went ahead and added the Union monument down the street from me.
posted by interplanetjanet at 5:57 PM on August 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by interplanetjanet at 5:57 PM on August 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
Due to the Nazi rally on Saturday, Boston is shutting down both the Frog Pond (a large wading area on Boston Common that kids have flocked to for decades) and the Swan Boats, across the street in the Public Garden. The city has also told the pushcart vendors who sell food and clothes on the Common to find some other place to be on Saturday.
posted by adamg at 5:58 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by adamg at 5:58 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
So maybe we talk about how we deal with Rs fleeing Trump.
Make it clear that they can only obtain your absolution and forgiveness by voting Democratic next time. No other way.
In both 2018 and 2020.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:59 PM on August 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
Make it clear that they can only obtain your absolution and forgiveness by voting Democratic next time. No other way.
In both 2018 and 2020.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:59 PM on August 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
That's a good question: Whether the Make Way for Ducklings statues in the Public Garden, which kids love to sit on, will be sealed off as well (of possibly less pressing concern, except for the people who work there, is whether the Earl of Sandwich on the Common will be open).
posted by adamg at 6:01 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by adamg at 6:01 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
The problem I have with all of these suddenly regretful voters is that they never end by saying "... and this is why I'm going to vote Dem next time". They leave themselves an out, which leads me to believe they haven't actually repudiated the Devil, they just don't like the form he's currently taking.
posted by um at 6:10 PM on August 17, 2017 [40 favorites]
posted by um at 6:10 PM on August 17, 2017 [40 favorites]
I wonder if Congressional Demos can get more traction by expressing concern rather than anger (or also concern). I was just watching the Seth Meyers video linked above, and at some point he refers to Trump's "brain disease" or something similar, in a matter-of-fact way. And I wonder (as the daughter of a damaged and dangerous-to-his-family narcissist) if somehow making this about mental health rather than evil would be an effective strategy for moving ahead. That's probably crazy talk! But as someone who struggles with mental health issues, I both hate our president with a fiery passion while wondering what it means for all of us when we can't say out loud that our country needs to be rescued from this guy not only because he's a racist, anti-semite but also because he's sick.
posted by Bella Donna at 6:13 PM on August 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 6:13 PM on August 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
I'm way behind but this: "USA Today's call for censure does strike me as a significant occasion." Resonated with me, too.
Until Meuller's job is done, censure feels far preferable than calls for impeachment. 1) It will annoy Trump and he'll continue to dig himself in deeper holes. 2) More importantly, it will identify which Republicans are willing to go on record censuring him and which continue to defend the indefensible. 3) It counts as a first strike against Trump when the FBI report comes in, making a stronger case for impeachment then.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:13 PM on August 17, 2017 [11 favorites]
Until Meuller's job is done, censure feels far preferable than calls for impeachment. 1) It will annoy Trump and he'll continue to dig himself in deeper holes. 2) More importantly, it will identify which Republicans are willing to go on record censuring him and which continue to defend the indefensible. 3) It counts as a first strike against Trump when the FBI report comes in, making a stronger case for impeachment then.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:13 PM on August 17, 2017 [11 favorites]
I don't really feel any one way about actual Palm Beach organizations holding functions at Mar-A-Lago. It's a historic estate (built by Marjorie Post) that has played a large part in Palm Beach society for decades, and it's also traded hands many times. Just because Trump is the current trashbag of an owner is not necessarily a reason to impugn it.
Of course, his refusal to divest himself of his businesses, and Congress' refusal to enforce the emoluments clause, are why organizations and companies even have to make choices like "Is it ethical for us to hold our gala here?" Even the White House is dirtied by that question now. That fucker.
posted by Autumnheart at 6:25 PM on August 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
Of course, his refusal to divest himself of his businesses, and Congress' refusal to enforce the emoluments clause, are why organizations and companies even have to make choices like "Is it ethical for us to hold our gala here?" Even the White House is dirtied by that question now. That fucker.
posted by Autumnheart at 6:25 PM on August 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
A Daniel Dale article from today's Toronto Star, he isn't pulling any punches:
Trump cites fake story to endorse racist mass murder as anti-terror tactic
Trump cites fake story to endorse racist mass murder as anti-terror tactic
WASHINGTON—In the morning, Donald Trump echoed the vocabulary of white supremacists. In the afternoon, he endorsed a fictional war crime against Muslims.posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 6:26 PM on August 17, 2017 [14 favorites]
Yo, people, Tina Fey just straight up shredded on Weekend Update tonight. Go to your DVR right now and watch it!
Or wait like ten minutes for zachlipton to post a YouTube clip. Your call.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:32 PM on August 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
Or wait like ten minutes for zachlipton to post a YouTube clip. Your call.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:32 PM on August 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
Boston: make way for Nazi assholes.
Jazi, Kazi, Lazi, Mazi, Nazi, Oazi, Pazi, and Qazi!
The ducklings from Make Way for Ducklings are named Jack, Kack, Lack, Mack, Nack, Ouack, Pack, and Quack, which are the letters J, K, L, M, N, O, P and Q followed by a sharp Mars Attacks-style Ack! If you learn this as a child you can fire it off quickly and remember it years later. I know this because when visiting Boston my cousins and I came upon Nancy Schön's statue of Mrs. Mallard and said ducklings. I immediately pointed and excitedly yelled "Jack, Kack, Lack, Mack, Nack, Ouack, Pack, and Quack!" And then I saw a swan boat! It was a brief fantastic moment and thinking about it always makes me smile. Nobody who I was with had any idea what I was talking about. Well done Boston. Now go tell those Nazi fucks to fuck off.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 6:34 PM on August 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
Jazi, Kazi, Lazi, Mazi, Nazi, Oazi, Pazi, and Qazi!
The ducklings from Make Way for Ducklings are named Jack, Kack, Lack, Mack, Nack, Ouack, Pack, and Quack, which are the letters J, K, L, M, N, O, P and Q followed by a sharp Mars Attacks-style Ack! If you learn this as a child you can fire it off quickly and remember it years later. I know this because when visiting Boston my cousins and I came upon Nancy Schön's statue of Mrs. Mallard and said ducklings. I immediately pointed and excitedly yelled "Jack, Kack, Lack, Mack, Nack, Ouack, Pack, and Quack!" And then I saw a swan boat! It was a brief fantastic moment and thinking about it always makes me smile. Nobody who I was with had any idea what I was talking about. Well done Boston. Now go tell those Nazi fucks to fuck off.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 6:34 PM on August 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
What do you mean, calls into question?
Yeah, I don't know about Scaramucci's fuckup being planned--from the start it was pretty clear he was another one of Trump's completely unprepared buds who got his position by asskissing and gladhanding. It's obviously where Bannon got the idea for his "mistake", though. What better way to convince people you're serious than to pretend, gee golly gosh, you just no idea that someone could possibly report this?
Kuttner was obviously misled. But something tells me if Bannon called up Dean Baquet or Marty Baron they wouldn't be quite so hasty to go immediately to publication without considering why someone as canny as Bannon was giving them this story. And Bannon knew that.
posted by Anonymous at 6:36 PM on August 17, 2017
Yeah, I don't know about Scaramucci's fuckup being planned--from the start it was pretty clear he was another one of Trump's completely unprepared buds who got his position by asskissing and gladhanding. It's obviously where Bannon got the idea for his "mistake", though. What better way to convince people you're serious than to pretend, gee golly gosh, you just no idea that someone could possibly report this?
Kuttner was obviously misled. But something tells me if Bannon called up Dean Baquet or Marty Baron they wouldn't be quite so hasty to go immediately to publication without considering why someone as canny as Bannon was giving them this story. And Bannon knew that.
posted by Anonymous at 6:36 PM on August 17, 2017
Just because Trump is the current trashbag of an owner is not necessarily a reason to impugn it.
I love lemonade. I order it at every restaurant I go to. I have had Army generals and senior U.S. diplomats laugh at me when I asked whether there was lemonade at a multinational social function.
If I saw a Nazi lemonade stand, I'd cross the street to piss on it.
posted by Etrigan at 6:44 PM on August 17, 2017 [37 favorites]
I love lemonade. I order it at every restaurant I go to. I have had Army generals and senior U.S. diplomats laugh at me when I asked whether there was lemonade at a multinational social function.
If I saw a Nazi lemonade stand, I'd cross the street to piss on it.
posted by Etrigan at 6:44 PM on August 17, 2017 [37 favorites]
The money goes into his hands. This is the reason.
I completely agree, but the reason I basically make an exception for Palm Beach organizations specifically is because Mar-a-lago has been around as an institution for a lot longer than Trump has owned it.
If I saw a Nazi lemonade stand, I'd cross the street to piss on it.
If Nazis bought Monticello or Mount Vernon, would you piss on that? Pretty much the same deal. I mean, you probably wouldn't visit as long as they did own it, and neither would I, but I wouldn't blame people who still wanted to learn about Thomas Jefferson. As I said, we could say this exact thing about the White House right now. But Trump is to blame for it, not the building, or people who still appreciate it as an institution despite the current resident.
posted by Autumnheart at 6:49 PM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
I completely agree, but the reason I basically make an exception for Palm Beach organizations specifically is because Mar-a-lago has been around as an institution for a lot longer than Trump has owned it.
If I saw a Nazi lemonade stand, I'd cross the street to piss on it.
If Nazis bought Monticello or Mount Vernon, would you piss on that? Pretty much the same deal. I mean, you probably wouldn't visit as long as they did own it, and neither would I, but I wouldn't blame people who still wanted to learn about Thomas Jefferson. As I said, we could say this exact thing about the White House right now. But Trump is to blame for it, not the building, or people who still appreciate it as an institution despite the current resident.
posted by Autumnheart at 6:49 PM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
But I don't give the same consideration to national organizations, who could have their galas anywhere.
posted by Autumnheart at 6:53 PM on August 17, 2017
posted by Autumnheart at 6:53 PM on August 17, 2017
And in case anyone was wondering how to pronounce 'Ouack,' this classic AskMe has relevant guidance.
posted by AwkwardPause at 6:53 PM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by AwkwardPause at 6:53 PM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Ali Velshi and Stephanie Ruhle...absolutely NAILED Trump apologist Brad Thomas
Thomas said, "A rising tide lifts all boats. You've heard that before."
He's right. I have heard that before. Every single time Republicans push their voodoo economics and claim cutting corporate taxes will benefit everyone. And it's bullshit every time.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:53 PM on August 17, 2017 [25 favorites]
I missed making an obvious an important point in response to greermahoney: the statues of Lee and company were also symbolic violence. They were intended to communicate that racist violence was honorable and thus licensed the actual violence of hate groups like the KKK. So of course taking them down is symbolic violence in response.
So I throw a rock through your window and it's violence, but if I take it back out and fix the window, that's also violence?
Look, I totally get that putting up those statues was intentional intimidation, and ok, symbolic violence. But I'm still not with you that taking them down is any kind of violence. At all.
posted by greermahoney at 6:59 PM on August 17, 2017 [11 favorites]
So I throw a rock through your window and it's violence, but if I take it back out and fix the window, that's also violence?
Look, I totally get that putting up those statues was intentional intimidation, and ok, symbolic violence. But I'm still not with you that taking them down is any kind of violence. At all.
posted by greermahoney at 6:59 PM on August 17, 2017 [11 favorites]
Tina Fey just straight up shredded on Weekend Update tonight.
As much as I adore what men like Colbert are doing rn, as a woman I realized what I have been missing on "late-night" political satire this summer was righteous female anger.
posted by NorthernLite at 7:06 PM on August 17, 2017 [24 favorites]
As much as I adore what men like Colbert are doing rn, as a woman I realized what I have been missing on "late-night" political satire this summer was righteous female anger.
posted by NorthernLite at 7:06 PM on August 17, 2017 [24 favorites]
I don't really feel any one way about actual Palm Beach organizations holding functions at Mar-A-Lago. It's a historic estate (built by Marjorie Post) that has played a large part in Palm Beach society for decades, and it's also traded hands many times. Just because Trump is the current trashbag of an owner is not necessarily a reason to impugn it.
Nobody's impugning it. They're just declining to associate their organizations with and put money into the pocket of the current owner, a Nazi apologist. AS WELL THEY SHOULD. It's a way to demonstrate that actions have consequences, and also I would venture to guess that many members of the sizable Palm Beach area Jewish community attend these charitable fundraising functions. I would urge The Cancer Society not to send out invitations essentially saying, "Hey, let's all have dinner at the Friend of Nazis ballroom -- and bring your checkbook!"
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:07 PM on August 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
Nobody's impugning it. They're just declining to associate their organizations with and put money into the pocket of the current owner, a Nazi apologist. AS WELL THEY SHOULD. It's a way to demonstrate that actions have consequences, and also I would venture to guess that many members of the sizable Palm Beach area Jewish community attend these charitable fundraising functions. I would urge The Cancer Society not to send out invitations essentially saying, "Hey, let's all have dinner at the Friend of Nazis ballroom -- and bring your checkbook!"
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:07 PM on August 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
Oh, how I wish Sam Bee was on every week. Or every night.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:08 PM on August 17, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:08 PM on August 17, 2017 [24 favorites]
he could resign in exchange for some legal immunity.
Fuuuuuuuuuuck that Nixon-ass shit. Cheeto's getting his own jumpsuit, or America is gone gone.
posted by petebest at 7:14 PM on August 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
Fuuuuuuuuuuck that Nixon-ass shit. Cheeto's getting his own jumpsuit, or America is gone gone.
posted by petebest at 7:14 PM on August 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
Or wait like ten minutes for zachlipton to post a YouTube clip. Your call.
Sorry I'm late... Best I've got right now is this semi-decent bootleg clip of Tina Fey (get it while it's still up). I'm not a fan of the whole "stay home when the Nazis come" message (because that's how you hand your city over to the Nazis), but she does a damn fine job of capturing the mix of anger and despair so many of us are feeling right now and it was pretty wonderful.
posted by zachlipton at 7:18 PM on August 17, 2017 [26 favorites]
Sorry I'm late... Best I've got right now is this semi-decent bootleg clip of Tina Fey (get it while it's still up). I'm not a fan of the whole "stay home when the Nazis come" message (because that's how you hand your city over to the Nazis), but she does a damn fine job of capturing the mix of anger and despair so many of us are feeling right now and it was pretty wonderful.
posted by zachlipton at 7:18 PM on August 17, 2017 [26 favorites]
Cheeto's getting his own jumpsuit, or America is gone gone.
You do know that people are still infatuated with Charles Manson, right?
Putting Trump in prison won't change a thing in America.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:18 PM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
You do know that people are still infatuated with Charles Manson, right?
Putting Trump in prison won't change a thing in America.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:18 PM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
I have a couple of thoughts regarding the galas issue.
One is that there are plenty of other nice venues in Palm Beach. I used to work at an organization who routinely did galas at the Breakers. There's also a Ritz Carleton and I'm sure a bunch of other options.
The other is that a lot of board politics are involved. I run a tiny non-profit out of Miami. Sometime around the new year, I went to a party hosted by some friends of mine. One of them works for a pretty large local non-profit in Palm Beach County and a lot of his colleagues were at this shindig. We were talking shop and I mentioned that I had a Trump supporting board member, which was an anomaly for my organization. They all looked at me like I had grown another head because they had board members who were members of Mar-a-Largo and knew Trump. They had to walk a very fine line of trying to let their board members know that Trump's policies would hurt their organization and maintain a sense of neutrality. It was fascinating to me as someone who works with an organization where everyone is assumed to be liberal until proven otherwise.
I think now it would be easier for development departments to throw their weight around regarding this. And goodness knows, smaller donors should be throwing their weight around as well. But the entire non-profit industry is set up to cater to the whims of those who write checks. And it's balanced towards those who write large checks in ways that it shouldn't be.
posted by JustKeepSwimming at 7:18 PM on August 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
One is that there are plenty of other nice venues in Palm Beach. I used to work at an organization who routinely did galas at the Breakers. There's also a Ritz Carleton and I'm sure a bunch of other options.
The other is that a lot of board politics are involved. I run a tiny non-profit out of Miami. Sometime around the new year, I went to a party hosted by some friends of mine. One of them works for a pretty large local non-profit in Palm Beach County and a lot of his colleagues were at this shindig. We were talking shop and I mentioned that I had a Trump supporting board member, which was an anomaly for my organization. They all looked at me like I had grown another head because they had board members who were members of Mar-a-Largo and knew Trump. They had to walk a very fine line of trying to let their board members know that Trump's policies would hurt their organization and maintain a sense of neutrality. It was fascinating to me as someone who works with an organization where everyone is assumed to be liberal until proven otherwise.
I think now it would be easier for development departments to throw their weight around regarding this. And goodness knows, smaller donors should be throwing their weight around as well. But the entire non-profit industry is set up to cater to the whims of those who write checks. And it's balanced towards those who write large checks in ways that it shouldn't be.
posted by JustKeepSwimming at 7:18 PM on August 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
BuzzFeed, Adrian Carrasquillo, Steve Bannon Detonates His Trump Survival Plan, Worrying Allies
I posted this earlier today, but I completely missed the massive bit buried in the 25th paragraph, which Ryan Goodman flagged up, points to him for paying attention:
posted by zachlipton at 7:23 PM on August 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
I posted this earlier today, but I completely missed the massive bit buried in the 25th paragraph, which Ryan Goodman flagged up, points to him for paying attention:
Bannon's lack of powerful allies was evident after a public feud with Jared Kushner in the spring. The former Breitbart mogul, a source close to the administration said, told people behind Kushner's back that "hopefully Jared will go down in things pertaining to Russia," or real estate holdings that were increasingly under a legal microscope.Bannon is running around thinking he'll regain power because Jared is going to get in trouble because of Russia? Or because of shady real estate deals? That's pretty jaw-dropping.
posted by zachlipton at 7:23 PM on August 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
What this Nazi controversy really needs is more Sebastian Gorka.
Why oh why won't Chief Kelly let Gorka get out in the driveway and talk to the press about this? I'm sure he could clear everything up to everyone's satisfaction.
posted by darkstar at 7:26 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Why oh why won't Chief Kelly let Gorka get out in the driveway and talk to the press about this? I'm sure he could clear everything up to everyone's satisfaction.
posted by darkstar at 7:26 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Nobody's impugning it. They're just declining to associate their organizations with and put money into the pocket of the current owner, a Nazi apologist. AS WELL THEY SHOULD.
I totally agree. But for me personally, if a Palm Beach organization didn't cancel, I wouldn't be all "they support Nazis". You know they probably booked that shit a year ago (at least) and spent millions of dollars on vendors. I think it certainly bears considering the impact on these organizations if they do cancel. A lot of organizations can't just eat a cost like that, nor the businesses that they hired to cater or provide entertainment or whatever.
I felt the same way about the list of retailers selling Ivanka Trump products. Certainly now it would be incredibly inappropriate for any organization or retailer to decide that Nazi Trump is a profitable brand and to sign up to promote or patronize it. But retailers have existing contracts with their vendors. They can't just pull products off the shelf and refuse to sell, that would be a guaranteed legal action that they would certainly lose. And what are they supposed to do, just write off hundreds of thousands, or millions, in inventory because they signed a contract to sell Ivanka's shoes or perfume in October, or February? Two of those retailers, Macy's and Bed Bath & Beyond, are already having financial difficulties. Are they just supposed to go bankrupt because Trump has turned out to be a Nazi supporter? If you want to boycott something, just refuse to buy Trump products--it will have exactly the same effect and you can bet that retailer will not renew their contract. You don't have to buy your bath towels somewhere else because they still have Trump sheets on the shelf.
I say this not to excuse any Trump for anything, but to ask where to draw the line for a business or an organization that has a pre-existing contract or an investment in what is now a toxic relationship. Nobody gave a shit about Ivanka's shoe brand in October, or who had what gala in Palm Beach. *Now* it is a problem. But what are we reasonably supposed to expect of these organizations that entered an agreement in good faith, and maybe literally can't afford to back out?
posted by Autumnheart at 7:28 PM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
I totally agree. But for me personally, if a Palm Beach organization didn't cancel, I wouldn't be all "they support Nazis". You know they probably booked that shit a year ago (at least) and spent millions of dollars on vendors. I think it certainly bears considering the impact on these organizations if they do cancel. A lot of organizations can't just eat a cost like that, nor the businesses that they hired to cater or provide entertainment or whatever.
I felt the same way about the list of retailers selling Ivanka Trump products. Certainly now it would be incredibly inappropriate for any organization or retailer to decide that Nazi Trump is a profitable brand and to sign up to promote or patronize it. But retailers have existing contracts with their vendors. They can't just pull products off the shelf and refuse to sell, that would be a guaranteed legal action that they would certainly lose. And what are they supposed to do, just write off hundreds of thousands, or millions, in inventory because they signed a contract to sell Ivanka's shoes or perfume in October, or February? Two of those retailers, Macy's and Bed Bath & Beyond, are already having financial difficulties. Are they just supposed to go bankrupt because Trump has turned out to be a Nazi supporter? If you want to boycott something, just refuse to buy Trump products--it will have exactly the same effect and you can bet that retailer will not renew their contract. You don't have to buy your bath towels somewhere else because they still have Trump sheets on the shelf.
I say this not to excuse any Trump for anything, but to ask where to draw the line for a business or an organization that has a pre-existing contract or an investment in what is now a toxic relationship. Nobody gave a shit about Ivanka's shoe brand in October, or who had what gala in Palm Beach. *Now* it is a problem. But what are we reasonably supposed to expect of these organizations that entered an agreement in good faith, and maybe literally can't afford to back out?
posted by Autumnheart at 7:28 PM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
They are having to scrape the bottom of the barrel to get Trump defenders on the air today, as was true yesterday. Just saw the Republican guest on Don Lemon's CNN show (Senator Jeff ??) claim that Hillary Clinton started the birther movement. He was shouted down, but stuck to his guns until they cut away. It's like the marching orders are to go out and make lots of stupid noise to draw fire away from the Prez. (As Bannon did.)
posted by puddledork at 7:31 PM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by puddledork at 7:31 PM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
I totally agree. But for me personally, if a Palm Beach organization didn't cancel, I wouldn't be all "they support Nazis".
Absolutely. It's not on the charity organization. They don't have some moral obligation to boycott him to the detriment of the populations and causes they serve. I just meant, if they choose to cancel, that doesn't reflect on the image of Mar-a-Lago itself, since yes, it was part of the local culture long before Trump showed up to deface it.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:32 PM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Absolutely. It's not on the charity organization. They don't have some moral obligation to boycott him to the detriment of the populations and causes they serve. I just meant, if they choose to cancel, that doesn't reflect on the image of Mar-a-Lago itself, since yes, it was part of the local culture long before Trump showed up to deface it.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:32 PM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
I totally agree. But for me personally, if a Palm Beach organization didn't cancel, I wouldn't be all "they support Nazis". You know they probably booked that shit a year ago (at least) and spent millions of dollars on vendors. I think it certainly bears considering the impact on these organizations if they do cancel. A lot of organizations can't just eat a cost like that, nor the businesses that they hired to cater or provide entertainment or whatever.
It could be a question of "can we afford to keep doing program X if we cancel our gala" and that's a good point to bring up.
It should be interesting to see if things change for future fiscal years. So yes, maybe an organization can't back out now -- are they willing to investigate other options for 2018-2019? And what is needed to help boards and development departments make that shift?
posted by JustKeepSwimming at 7:39 PM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
It could be a question of "can we afford to keep doing program X if we cancel our gala" and that's a good point to bring up.
It should be interesting to see if things change for future fiscal years. So yes, maybe an organization can't back out now -- are they willing to investigate other options for 2018-2019? And what is needed to help boards and development departments make that shift?
posted by JustKeepSwimming at 7:39 PM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Agreed. Organizations that consciously decide to enter new agreements with Trump companies from today onward have no ethical grey area to excuse them.
posted by Autumnheart at 7:45 PM on August 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Autumnheart at 7:45 PM on August 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
Trump was leading the Birther movement years ago. Anyone who still has contracts with the Trumps is tainted and should have known better long ago. Fuck 'em.
posted by rikschell at 7:47 PM on August 17, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 7:47 PM on August 17, 2017 [25 favorites]
Rabbi Ira F Stone of the Mussar Leadership Program weighs in on the Sept 30 march that clashes with Yom Kippur : On Praying With Our Feet
posted by bardophile at 7:57 PM on August 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by bardophile at 7:57 PM on August 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
If Trump's Nazi inclinations lead to Bed Bath & Beyond going out of business, and thus rendering Pure Beech sateen modal sheets unavailable, I will be super fucking pissed.
posted by Autumnheart at 8:02 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Autumnheart at 8:02 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Pure Beech sateen modal sheets
Those sheets are the best!!!!!
posted by greermahoney at 8:16 PM on August 17, 2017
Those sheets are the best!!!!!
posted by greermahoney at 8:16 PM on August 17, 2017
You know they probably booked that shit a year ago (at least)
So, half the time since Trump rode down an escalator and accused Mexico of sending rapists across the border.
posted by Etrigan at 8:17 PM on August 17, 2017 [23 favorites]
So, half the time since Trump rode down an escalator and accused Mexico of sending rapists across the border.
posted by Etrigan at 8:17 PM on August 17, 2017 [23 favorites]
Yeah. A march was designed to take place on the holiest day of the Jewish calendar. Screw what this rabbi thinks- that the left wing people did that is an act of hate in it of itself. I understand why some Jews will march but fuck is it too much to ask that our holidays aren't disrespected by the left as much as they are disrespected by the right?
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 8:18 PM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 8:18 PM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
When DJT is no longer president, and let it be soon, talk will turn to his presidential library. (He or his family will think of it as another grift, I'm sure.)
I propose his library would consist entirely of a multi gender bathroom with pictures of Trump in all the urinals and toilets.
So I posted on twitter yesterday. I @ed to Trump, too. I hope he saw it even for a second, and his ego shrank a little.
posted by Gadgetenvy at 8:18 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
I propose his library would consist entirely of a multi gender bathroom with pictures of Trump in all the urinals and toilets.
So I posted on twitter yesterday. I @ed to Trump, too. I hope he saw it even for a second, and his ego shrank a little.
posted by Gadgetenvy at 8:18 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
As much as I adore what men like Colbert are doing rn, as a woman I realized what I have been missing on "late-night" political satire this summer was righteous female anger.
OK, so clearly Tina Fey is reading the Threads.
My main question is how do we incorporate grilled cheese into the anti-fascist ritual ceremonies
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:32 PM on August 17, 2017 [22 favorites]
OK, so clearly Tina Fey is reading the Threads.
My main question is how do we incorporate grilled cheese into the anti-fascist ritual ceremonies
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:32 PM on August 17, 2017 [22 favorites]
The obvious reason for opposing statues of racist figures is that they actually hurt people. The goal of destroying them is in part intended to hurt people back. It's justice, it's revenge, it's a threat.
Or, let's just try this idea on for size, it could be TO STOP HURTING PEOPLE.
Look, we have seen, over the last several days, repeated testimony from people of color stating that the presence of the statues is intimidating and emotionally painful. They are, in other words, currently doing harm. They are not simply passive monuments to past injustice, they are current, active injustice, doing harm to the community and the individuals in it.
TLDR: removing the statues is not a threat, it's ENDING a threat.
Or, to put it more plainly, if you were a doctor, treating someone who had been stabbed, would you say "I can't possibly remove this dagger- it's not rational to threaten the stabber that way!"
Or, bottom line: would you arguing that removing spray painted swastikas from a synagogue would be a threat? If not, how is that different?
posted by happyroach at 8:40 PM on August 17, 2017 [25 favorites]
Or, let's just try this idea on for size, it could be TO STOP HURTING PEOPLE.
Look, we have seen, over the last several days, repeated testimony from people of color stating that the presence of the statues is intimidating and emotionally painful. They are, in other words, currently doing harm. They are not simply passive monuments to past injustice, they are current, active injustice, doing harm to the community and the individuals in it.
TLDR: removing the statues is not a threat, it's ENDING a threat.
Or, to put it more plainly, if you were a doctor, treating someone who had been stabbed, would you say "I can't possibly remove this dagger- it's not rational to threaten the stabber that way!"
Or, bottom line: would you arguing that removing spray painted swastikas from a synagogue would be a threat? If not, how is that different?
posted by happyroach at 8:40 PM on August 17, 2017 [25 favorites]
"A rising tide lifts all boats." And swamps boats that are anchored too tightly.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:51 PM on August 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:51 PM on August 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
I propose his library would consist entirely of a multi gender bathroom with pictures of Trump in all the urinals and toilets.
Can it also be some kind of peeing game where you pee to scroll through is TOP TWEETS.
posted by dis_integration at 8:56 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Can it also be some kind of peeing game where you pee to scroll through is TOP TWEETS.
posted by dis_integration at 8:56 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
As much as I adore what men like Colbert are doing rn, as a woman I realized what I have been missing on "late-night" political satire this summer was righteous female anger.
You might want to look into Samantha Bee.
posted by JHarris at 9:15 PM on August 17, 2017 [19 favorites]
You might want to look into Samantha Bee.
posted by JHarris at 9:15 PM on August 17, 2017 [19 favorites]
Years ago, before he even announced his campaign, an organization that I support moved a planned event from a Trump property because people pointed out that he was a racist, transphobic asshole. Trump's nature has never been a secret; charities that use his properties are complicit in his bigotry.
posted by sevenyearlurk at 9:20 PM on August 17, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by sevenyearlurk at 9:20 PM on August 17, 2017 [25 favorites]
It's not violence of any kind, symbolic or otherwise, and those pictures look like the most practical way to achieve an end, not like (shudder) (gag) (spit on the ground) photos of lynchings. It does not hurt anyone to take those things down. It helps everyone. Leaving bigots unchallenged hurts them. Abandoning them to stew in their malice, lose their minds and their humanity, and be exploited hurts them.
posted by Don Pepino at 9:29 PM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Don Pepino at 9:29 PM on August 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Thanks, syzygy, for posting above that you sent Laurel Baker (the Palm Beach Chamber of Commerce head who encouraged charities to stop using Mar-a-Lago) a thank you email. Because of you, I also sent one and got this back: "Thank you very much. The response has been outstandingly positive!" That was encouraging. Less encouraging: the death threats received by Heather Heyer's mom. FFS, America! Tomorrow I'm taking a 24-hour train ride to Grand Junction, recently profiled by The New Yorker. So I'll be missing for a bit, which is probably just as well. Even with company, this particular emotional and physical national roller coaster sucks eggs.
posted by Bella Donna at 9:38 PM on August 17, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 9:38 PM on August 17, 2017 [12 favorites]
A march was designed to take place on the holiest day of the Jewish calendar. Screw what this rabbi thinks [...]
Pretty much.
You know how you have some other Jews defending Trump? You can always find a narcissist or contrarian to roll over and have their tummy tickled for the camera.
Also, when he says "We are identified and self-identify as being white regardless of the hue of our skin" he's eliding the fact that about 20% of US Jews identify as persons of color; and 100% of US Jews are identified as POCs by the fascists marching in Charlottesville. I'm surprised that anyone can be so tone-deaf about this subject, at this time.
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:43 PM on August 17, 2017 [13 favorites]
Pretty much.
You know how you have some other Jews defending Trump? You can always find a narcissist or contrarian to roll over and have their tummy tickled for the camera.
Also, when he says "We are identified and self-identify as being white regardless of the hue of our skin" he's eliding the fact that about 20% of US Jews identify as persons of color; and 100% of US Jews are identified as POCs by the fascists marching in Charlottesville. I'm surprised that anyone can be so tone-deaf about this subject, at this time.
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:43 PM on August 17, 2017 [13 favorites]
When DJT is no longer president, and let it be soon, talk will turn to his presidential library.
I believe we've already talked about this idea for his Presidential Library but it's just too good not to repeat.
I believe we've already talked about this idea for his Presidential Library but it's just too good not to repeat.
This place is a message… and part of a system of messages… pay attention to it! Sending this message was important to us. We considered ourselves to be a powerful culture.posted by mmoncur at 9:45 PM on August 17, 2017 [20 favorites]
This place is not a place of honor… no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here… nothing valued is here.
What is here is dangerous and repulsive to us. This message is a warning about danger.
Tmrw could be worst day for Trump since inaug
Hasn't Trump had over 100 "worst days since inauguration" by now? Each one worse than the last?
posted by mmoncur at 9:52 PM on August 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
Hasn't Trump had over 100 "worst days since inauguration" by now? Each one worse than the last?
posted by mmoncur at 9:52 PM on August 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
Looking forward to tomorrow then.
Though being on the West coast, there will already be 221 new comments by the time I get up in the morning...
posted by Windopaene at 9:56 PM on August 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
Though being on the West coast, there will already be 221 new comments by the time I get up in the morning...
posted by Windopaene at 9:56 PM on August 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
being on the West coast, there will already be 221 new comments by the time I get up in the morningTell me about it. When I wake up at 6:00 here, it's 5:00 p.m. EDT. Always exciting new news to wake up to.
posted by DoctorFedora at 9:58 PM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
[Yeah, in my excitement over seeing Tina again I momentarily forgot Sam Bee.]
In other news re me, kids, I do work for an org that's primarily Jewish, and I infer some members/coworkers are tRump fans.
They had a cutout of Benedict Donald as part of a jokey thing at an event. I penned a Hitler 'stache on it, and then told a friend I'll prolly get fired from this Jewish club for calling out Twitler. (Cos as the kids say, the Season 2017 writers have gone insane.)
posted by NorthernLite at 9:59 PM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
In other news re me, kids, I do work for an org that's primarily Jewish, and I infer some members/coworkers are tRump fans.
They had a cutout of Benedict Donald as part of a jokey thing at an event. I penned a Hitler 'stache on it, and then told a friend I'll prolly get fired from this Jewish club for calling out Twitler. (Cos as the kids say, the Season 2017 writers have gone insane.)
posted by NorthernLite at 9:59 PM on August 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Hasn't Trump had over 100 "worst days since inauguration" by now? Each one worse than the last?
209.5, at the moment. To be precise.
posted by rhizome at 10:10 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
209.5, at the moment. To be precise.
posted by rhizome at 10:10 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
"I think we must know some of the same people because I heard exactly the same thing around 8pm tonight." "Like, Apocalypse bad."
The topmost reply:
posted by honestcoyote at 10:14 PM on August 17, 2017 [13 favorites]
The topmost reply:
@CouchGenius I know a random post on Twitter means nothing. But I want to believe.
Replying to @TheRickWilson
I heard he no longer has control of "nuclear football" per knowledge
posted by honestcoyote at 10:14 PM on August 17, 2017 [13 favorites]
I don't want to get ahead of ourselves here, but is there even a protocol for that?
posted by greermahoney at 10:21 PM on August 17, 2017
posted by greermahoney at 10:21 PM on August 17, 2017
"Like, Apocalypse bad."
Ooh, I hope no one tells him until Monday, just before the eclipse.
posted by Sys Rq at 10:22 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Ooh, I hope no one tells him until Monday, just before the eclipse.
posted by Sys Rq at 10:22 PM on August 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's a random guy laying out late-night wish fulfillment fantasies on Twitter.
posted by zachlipton at 10:23 PM on August 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 10:23 PM on August 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
is there even a protocol for that?
Yeah, impeachment or 25th. Unless one of those is in progress as I type, it's a coup.
(gonna guess the twitter is wrong on this one)
posted by ryanrs at 10:23 PM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yeah, impeachment or 25th. Unless one of those is in progress as I type, it's a coup.
(gonna guess the twitter is wrong on this one)
posted by ryanrs at 10:23 PM on August 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Gah, the new format for the Bill Moyers timeline blows
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:25 PM on August 17, 2017
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:25 PM on August 17, 2017
Carl Bernstein on CNN:
I think there’s considerable evidence that there is a consensus developing in the military, at the highest levels, in the intelligence community, among Republicans in Congress, including the leaders in the business community that the president of the United States, Donald Trump, is unfit to be the president of the United States. And that’s the undercurrent. I’ve talked to you about it for weeks, that I’ve been hearing in Washington. There is increasing talk about his emotional and mental stability, as David Gergen referred to earlier.posted by J.K. Seazer at 10:55 PM on August 17, 2017 [81 favorites]
This is extraordinary. It’s a dangerous moment in our history. Trump is under siege. Also from a special prosecutor, his family is under siege from a special prosecutor.
But more than anything else, I think there’s a sense among military, congressional, business leaders that he’s in a kind of freefall, and he may not have many parachutes left except for his base to land safely. And that’s awful thin cushion.
We’ve never seen anything like this. We don’t know where it’s going. We’re in a presidential crisis of leadership, because his moral authority is gone with these constituencies that are essential for him to govern.
Hey guys this problem would have been way easier to deal with a year and a half ago when we told you about it...
posted by mmoncur at 10:59 PM on August 17, 2017 [103 favorites]
posted by mmoncur at 10:59 PM on August 17, 2017 [103 favorites]
Barack Obama now has the most liked tweet of all time. If Donald Trump wants to break this record he need only tweet two words - I resign.
posted by walrus at 11:29 PM on August 17, 2017 [82 favorites]
posted by walrus at 11:29 PM on August 17, 2017 [82 favorites]
Politico (Cristiano Lima): Schwarzenegger jabs Trump: 'There are not two sides to bigotry'
"There are not two sides to bigotry and there are not two sides to hatred," the former California governor told the website ATTN in a video interview. "If you choose to march with the flag that symbolizes the slaughter of millions of people, there are not two sides to that."posted by christopherious at 11:57 PM on August 17, 2017 [75 favorites]
[...]
In the ATTN video, the former governor pleaded with Trump to fulfill his obligation as the leading politician in the United States to unequivocally condemn the hatred and violence of Charlottesville.
"The only way to beat the loud and angry voices of hate is to meet them with louder and more reasonable voices, and that includes you, President Trump," he said.
Schwarzenegger, an native of Austria who became an American movie star and politician, also spoke directly to those who support the white nationalist movement and its foot soldiers in Charlottesville, drawing on his personal experience with the effects of Nazism in post-World War II Europe.
"I was surrounded by broken men, men who came home from a war filled with shrapnels and guilt, men who were misled into a losing ideology," said Schwarzenegger, who was born two years after the war ended.
"I can tell you that these ghosts you idolize spent the rest of their lives living in shame, and right now they’re resting in hell."
I think there’s considerable evidence that there is a consensus developing in the military, at the highest levels, in the intelligence community, among Republicans in Congress, including the leaders in the business community that the president of the United States, Donald Trump, is unfit to be the president of the United States.I find it ironic that in his quest to be a "strong" POTUS with designs on authoritarianism, he may end up weakening the Presidency for years. While Obama was thwarted by a historic do-nothing Congress, Trump has taken it to the next level by having military leaders openly refusing to go along with his policy proposals unless he goes about it in a way that is "normal" but not technically "prescribed." All branches of the military openly defied his pro-Nazi stance on Twitter. There are rumors that he's lost control of the football. This may be all fine and dandy when there's a madman in the Oval Office, but what if the military decides they don't like what the next actually normal President says and does? This. is. not. normal. It is dangerously eroding civilian oversight of the military.
In other areas, the "Deep State" has been leaking shit on Trump and his administration for months. Again, all fine and dandy when there's a madman in the WH, but what about future POTUSes? Radical and complete transparency sounds lovely, but people need to be able to discuss bad ideas and reject them without fear of repercussions for committing what amounts to a thought crime.
And Congress, having learned how to stymie Obama over the last 8 years, is actively subverting procedural norms against a President in their own party, limiting his powers in a way that one might argue subverts the Constitution. They continually assert that they are a "co-equal" branch, which is true, but if they continue much further in this vein, I'm not so sure about the playing field being level.
But rather than take the Constitutionally prescribed routes to deal with a dangerous and unfit leader, instead everyone is just playing procedural games in order to squeeze the maximum amount of utility out of this situation. Which scares the shit out of me.
posted by xyzzy at 12:14 AM on August 18, 2017 [50 favorites]
Carl Bernstein on CNN:
I think there’s considerable evidence that there is a consensus developing in the military, at the highest levels, in the intelligence community, among Republicans in Congress, including the leaders in the business community that the president of the United States, Donald Trump, is unfit to be the president of the United States.
glad to hear it, but ffs, I could've told y'all this very many months ago, and I'm just some proto-slacker on a couch somewhat north of 49.
posted by philip-random at 12:22 AM on August 18, 2017 [13 favorites]
I think there’s considerable evidence that there is a consensus developing in the military, at the highest levels, in the intelligence community, among Republicans in Congress, including the leaders in the business community that the president of the United States, Donald Trump, is unfit to be the president of the United States.
glad to hear it, but ffs, I could've told y'all this very many months ago, and I'm just some proto-slacker on a couch somewhat north of 49.
posted by philip-random at 12:22 AM on August 18, 2017 [13 favorites]
glad to hear it, but ffs, I could've told y'all this very many months ago, and I'm just some proto-slacker on a couch somewhat north of 49.
As a fellow proto-slacker who started talking about the influence of Russia over a year-and-a-half ago, it has been very difficult to not submerge myself in mix of smugness and rage every damn day of my life
posted by Anonymous at 12:37 AM on August 18, 2017
As a fellow proto-slacker who started talking about the influence of Russia over a year-and-a-half ago, it has been very difficult to not submerge myself in mix of smugness and rage every damn day of my life
posted by Anonymous at 12:37 AM on August 18, 2017
Tina Fey's segment has proved to be an extremely effective tool to sort my political follows on Twitter on a spectrum from "mask up and fight Nazis this instant" to "#resist."
The piece didn't infuriate me nearly as much as it did a lot of people, but "stay home and eat cake" is incredibly weaksauce.
posted by zachlipton at 12:44 AM on August 18, 2017 [20 favorites]
The piece didn't infuriate me nearly as much as it did a lot of people, but "stay home and eat cake" is incredibly weaksauce.
posted by zachlipton at 12:44 AM on August 18, 2017 [20 favorites]
To be fair, most of the establishment did warn against Trump before the election, and probably voted against him. The vote for Trump was against the establishment. Who knew we need experienced people in government, military, intelligence, diplomacy and business?
I find it ironic that in his quest to be a "strong" POTUS with designs on authoritarianism, he may end up weakening the Presidency for years.
Well, not really ironic: look at all the other "strong" leaders with designs on authoritarianism we have in the world. They are not exactly good at leading. Putin is good a manipulating people, but he is afraid of his own people and of all challengers, and he has run Russia ever deeper into economic despair. Exactly the same can be said of every other current authoritarian leader. And look at most countries where strong men have been ousted, it takes them years, even sometimes generations to work through the mistrust and corruption developed during the authoritarian reign. The right-wing populist fantasy of the strong man has failed so many times, it's ridiculous, and ridiculous that so many still fall for it. They should put this on the basic school curriculum or something.
Whoever takes over from this clownshow has a huge job to do, but hopefully they will have a strong popular backing - this needs to be something like the New Deal in scale.
posted by mumimor at 12:45 AM on August 18, 2017 [20 favorites]
I find it ironic that in his quest to be a "strong" POTUS with designs on authoritarianism, he may end up weakening the Presidency for years.
Well, not really ironic: look at all the other "strong" leaders with designs on authoritarianism we have in the world. They are not exactly good at leading. Putin is good a manipulating people, but he is afraid of his own people and of all challengers, and he has run Russia ever deeper into economic despair. Exactly the same can be said of every other current authoritarian leader. And look at most countries where strong men have been ousted, it takes them years, even sometimes generations to work through the mistrust and corruption developed during the authoritarian reign. The right-wing populist fantasy of the strong man has failed so many times, it's ridiculous, and ridiculous that so many still fall for it. They should put this on the basic school curriculum or something.
Whoever takes over from this clownshow has a huge job to do, but hopefully they will have a strong popular backing - this needs to be something like the New Deal in scale.
posted by mumimor at 12:45 AM on August 18, 2017 [20 favorites]
And Congress, having learned how to stymie Obama over the last 8 years, is actively subverting procedural norms against a President in their own party, limiting his powers in a way that one might argue subverts the Constitution. They continually assert that they are a "co-equal" branch, which is true, but if they continue much further in this vein, I'm not so sure about the playing field being level.
But rather than take the Constitutionally prescribed routes to deal with a dangerous and unfit leader, instead everyone is just playing procedural games in order to squeeze the maximum amount of utility out of this situation. Which scares the shit out of me.
posted by xyzzy at 4:14 PM on August 18 [+] [!]
If I'm not mistaken, wasn't this essentially how we existed prior to FDR? I don't have anywhere near the knowledge of history or politics to judge it, because holy cow it's a huge topic, but isn't it just kind of a "swing of the pendulum"?
Not that the era didn't have problems, but "weak presidents" and/or presidents with authoritarian streaks are a thing we've survived, right?
posted by saysthis at 12:49 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
But rather than take the Constitutionally prescribed routes to deal with a dangerous and unfit leader, instead everyone is just playing procedural games in order to squeeze the maximum amount of utility out of this situation. Which scares the shit out of me.
posted by xyzzy at 4:14 PM on August 18 [+] [!]
If I'm not mistaken, wasn't this essentially how we existed prior to FDR? I don't have anywhere near the knowledge of history or politics to judge it, because holy cow it's a huge topic, but isn't it just kind of a "swing of the pendulum"?
Not that the era didn't have problems, but "weak presidents" and/or presidents with authoritarian streaks are a thing we've survived, right?
posted by saysthis at 12:49 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
The piece didn't infuriate me nearly as much as it did a lot of people, but "stay home and eat cake" is incredibly weaksauce.
Because it's comedy, not a political action manual. I also didn't take Jimmy Kimmel's "Let's make Trump King" bit seriously either. I thought she was hilarious, and I don't expect anyone who was seriously planning to attend a counter-protest to actually stay home and eat cake based on this. But I'm sure a bunch of people who weren't ever going to go anyway, might.
posted by greermahoney at 1:07 AM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
Because it's comedy, not a political action manual. I also didn't take Jimmy Kimmel's "Let's make Trump King" bit seriously either. I thought she was hilarious, and I don't expect anyone who was seriously planning to attend a counter-protest to actually stay home and eat cake based on this. But I'm sure a bunch of people who weren't ever going to go anyway, might.
posted by greermahoney at 1:07 AM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
isn't it just kind of a "swing of the pendulum"?The USA has survived weak/authoritarian Presidents, but that pretty much happened when we had a relatively small military and most of our military focus was westward/southward towards expansionism. Now, in the last two decades alone, we're in a situation where we've had a SCOTUS decide a Presidential election along partisan lines, two elections where the popular vote winner did not actually become POTUS, a Congress who has blatantly declined to perform their duty to consent to a nomination of a SCJ and paid no price whatsoever, and a military with over a million active members that sort of shrugs its shoulders when the POTUS makes a fairly declaratory policy statement in writing.
I personally never sat around longing to experience what it was like to live in dangerous and uncertain times. As I look back on history I of course know that the survival of the democracy was guaranteed because it's still here, but when the future has yet to be written I can only hold on and hope that me and mine aren't irrevocably damaged by political upheaval like Heather Heyer and Deandre Harris have already been.
posted by xyzzy at 1:12 AM on August 18, 2017 [27 favorites]
Not that the era didn't have problems, but "weak presidents" and/or presidents with authoritarian streaks are a thing we've survived, right?
I think you're right. But. The differences in technology between, say, the 1890s or the 1920s and today are significant and important. There have always been weapons, but today there are intercontinental ballistic missiles armed with thermonuclear warheads. There has always been gerrymandering, but today there are computer algorithms that make gerrymandering immensely more effective. There have always been disinformation campaigns and biased journalism, but today there are targeted ads in social media bubbles. There has always been surveillance, but today ...
Our abilities to know things about people, to control people, to harm people, to game the political system, and on and on have all been significantly increased by technology. Probably to the point where similar figures, moments, or movements from the past are not necessarily reliable guides to the future.
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 1:14 AM on August 18, 2017 [21 favorites]
I think you're right. But. The differences in technology between, say, the 1890s or the 1920s and today are significant and important. There have always been weapons, but today there are intercontinental ballistic missiles armed with thermonuclear warheads. There has always been gerrymandering, but today there are computer algorithms that make gerrymandering immensely more effective. There have always been disinformation campaigns and biased journalism, but today there are targeted ads in social media bubbles. There has always been surveillance, but today ...
Our abilities to know things about people, to control people, to harm people, to game the political system, and on and on have all been significantly increased by technology. Probably to the point where similar figures, moments, or movements from the past are not necessarily reliable guides to the future.
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 1:14 AM on August 18, 2017 [21 favorites]
The piece didn't infuriate me nearly as much as it did a lot of people, but "stay home and eat cake" is incredibly weaksauce.
The charitable interpretation is "I'm playing a disgusting person who's planning to stay home and eat cake, disgustingly." Lots of SNL humor is like that, so it's pretty plausible.
posted by Coventry at 1:45 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
The charitable interpretation is "I'm playing a disgusting person who's planning to stay home and eat cake, disgustingly." Lots of SNL humor is like that, so it's pretty plausible.
posted by Coventry at 1:45 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
I don't think I've had a chance to post this here, xyzzy (and others), but the political scientist Jonathan Bernstein addressed it on his blog a few years ago (!) thusly, and it has proven prescient -- I've revisited this post several times since November.
But Bernstein seems to have had the pin right through the moth as far as how the Presidency has gone.
posted by dhartung at 1:51 AM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
[Watergate and other WH occupants since suggest] what if the president doesn't take "no" for an answer? What if the president finds a way around the bureaucracy? What if he does what he wants done, essentially, by himself -- or by people he hires who are loyal to the president, not to their agencies? If the normal functioning of American politics is full of built-in checks and balances, what if presidents find a way to cheat that system, and to find ways to govern unchecked and unbalanced?He then (after discussing specific historic anecdotes) concludes, perhaps optimistically to readers at this moment, "Overall, however, my judgment is that presidents who attempt to govern by themselves, without constraints and against the constitutional grain, are only buying trouble for themselves. That is, the constitutional system (and thus the rule of law) is in fact stronger than the presidential urge to overcome it. Even if sometimes it seems a very close thing." I believe the distance between this view and the understanding many of us have of the present danger is contained in the @drvox analysis upthread that Trump is basically a goldfish, with no persistent theory of mind. That is, other presidents have come in with political experience and a political agenda, but all of that policy stuff is secondary to Trump due to his lacking both a consistent, persistent worldview outside his own malignant narcissism and any obligation to political bases such as the "Republican Party" (which he chose Nazis over this week). He won't be amenable to attempts to talk him off of any metaphorical ledges, in other words.
My answer is going to be: yes, presidents have tried to do that. They generally do it through the "Presidential Branch" of government -- the White House Office, and the larger Executive Office of the President. They have, in limited ways and for short periods of time, apparently succeeded. But in the cases for which we have information, what these presidents have found is that the system is stronger than they thought, and that going rogue has all sorts of dangers to the president. On the whole, I am convinced that this kind of thing -- that is, using the Presidential Branch to get things done that the president wants but that the normal processes of government stymie -- doesn't "work" in the sense of allowing a president to have unlimited dictatorial powers. It doesn't work at all; it backfires, and destroys those who would try it.
But Bernstein seems to have had the pin right through the moth as far as how the Presidency has gone.
posted by dhartung at 1:51 AM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
I didn't like the Stay Home and Eat Cake message either, but I definitely laugh cried at her very good clapbacks.
'It's not our country, we stole it *cake chomp*... but we let you chainless turds march through the streets with semi-automatic weapons *cake chomp*'
posted by like_neon at 2:15 AM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
'It's not our country, we stole it *cake chomp*... but we let you chainless turds march through the streets with semi-automatic weapons *cake chomp*'
posted by like_neon at 2:15 AM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
That skit was great right up until her recommendation at the end. If she said "eat cake in front of the Nazis" that would've been pretty good. But there are a lot of people, specifically "well-meaning" white people, who think the way to make all this go away is through a mix of generic expressions of love for all people on Facebook and ignoring the alt-right protests. I can see the appeal: tell yourself they're all a bunch of harmless little boys, so if you stop giving them attention they'll go away. Unfortunately, if you are not white you get disabused of this notion pretty quickly.
I find this skit infuriating for many reasons: first, Tina Fey is so so smart and funny about so many things, and yet when it comes to anything involving race she shits the bed. She's already earned herself a reputation as a 'White Feminism' Leader, this is not going to help her any. When I saw her name in my Twitter sidebar I knew, I just knew she'd fucked up on this before I even saw the segment.
And second, because I know my POC friends are going to wake up to this shit and I am going to see a lot of rightfully bitter posts on my feed about how shitty white women are at advocating for anyone outside their race. And as a white woman, I just desperately wish for my people to stop fucking up so fucking badly and letting everyone down.
posted by Anonymous at 2:26 AM on August 18, 2017
I find this skit infuriating for many reasons: first, Tina Fey is so so smart and funny about so many things, and yet when it comes to anything involving race she shits the bed. She's already earned herself a reputation as a 'White Feminism' Leader, this is not going to help her any. When I saw her name in my Twitter sidebar I knew, I just knew she'd fucked up on this before I even saw the segment.
And second, because I know my POC friends are going to wake up to this shit and I am going to see a lot of rightfully bitter posts on my feed about how shitty white women are at advocating for anyone outside their race. And as a white woman, I just desperately wish for my people to stop fucking up so fucking badly and letting everyone down.
posted by Anonymous at 2:26 AM on August 18, 2017
"First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."
posted by like_neon at 2:33 AM on August 18, 2017 [39 favorites]
posted by like_neon at 2:33 AM on August 18, 2017 [39 favorites]
I must need to get my outrage-o-meter recalibrated because I thought the Tina Fey bit was hilarious.
posted by darkstar at 2:34 AM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by darkstar at 2:34 AM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
That skit was great right up until her recommendation at the end.
Perhaps you missed the first sentence of my comment?
Might it be possible to find something funny up until the point it isn't?
posted by Anonymous at 3:16 AM on August 18, 2017
Perhaps you missed the first sentence of my comment?
Might it be possible to find something funny up until the point it isn't?
posted by Anonymous at 3:16 AM on August 18, 2017
I belong to a "super secret" Facebook group (I know) where a person with "connections" posted mid-day on Wednesday saying that he'd lost control of the nuclear football according to her source. I didn't bother to post it here, because that's about as sketchy as it gets. But interesting to hear it coming from somewhere else now (albeit just as sketchy) and I'll be listening for anything else she may drop there.
posted by thebrokedown at 3:18 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by thebrokedown at 3:18 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
Truly, today was the day Tina Fey became peak white feminism.
posted by Yowser at 3:21 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 3:21 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
For the sake of m sanity I must ask -
When you say he "lost control of the nuclear football" do you mean that someone else has taken that duty over? Or that he has gone rogue or something?
Please clarify
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:24 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
When you say he "lost control of the nuclear football" do you mean that someone else has taken that duty over? Or that he has gone rogue or something?
Please clarify
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:24 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
She (and the tweet above in this post) meant that "they" had taken it away from him, much like they took it away from Nixon before he resigned.
posted by thebrokedown at 3:26 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by thebrokedown at 3:26 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
And as a white woman, I just desperately wish for my people to stop fucking up so fucking badly and letting everyone down.
This sort of sentiment is fairly common on Metafilter, but I would urge for some restraint in expressing it. It tends to suggest or assume that the audience is white/Western, which is kind of alienating for people with a different skin color/background. It also tends to center the shame & embarrassment of this presumed white/Western audience, and furthermore invokes "white people" as an indiscriminate single entity based on skin color, which is not generally useful. Finally it reinforces the notion that "white people" hold all power, which even in so far as this is accurate and germane, hinders the development and visibility of narratives that conceive of persons who are part of an ethnic minority as being in positions of power. Thank you.
posted by dmh at 3:26 AM on August 18, 2017 [16 favorites]
This sort of sentiment is fairly common on Metafilter, but I would urge for some restraint in expressing it. It tends to suggest or assume that the audience is white/Western, which is kind of alienating for people with a different skin color/background. It also tends to center the shame & embarrassment of this presumed white/Western audience, and furthermore invokes "white people" as an indiscriminate single entity based on skin color, which is not generally useful. Finally it reinforces the notion that "white people" hold all power, which even in so far as this is accurate and germane, hinders the development and visibility of narratives that conceive of persons who are part of an ethnic minority as being in positions of power. Thank you.
posted by dmh at 3:26 AM on August 18, 2017 [16 favorites]
When you say he "lost control of the nuclear football" do you mean that someone else has taken that duty over? Or that he has gone rogue or something?The rumor is that in some form or fashion, he can't just order a nuclear strike as all POTUSes have been able to do without Congressional approval since it became an option. I did not mean to imply that some rando ran off with it and can just order a strike themselves.
posted by xyzzy at 3:54 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
I don't see how. Once the President orders the strike no one can stop it. The order is supposed to be verified by the Secretary of Defense but he has no veto power over it. Only way would be for the VP and the required number of cabinet members to invoke the 25th Amendment and then immediately stand down?
posted by PenDevil at 3:57 AM on August 18, 2017
posted by PenDevil at 3:57 AM on August 18, 2017
much like they took it away from Nixon before he resigned
My understanding is that Nixon had already stated his intention to resign, on television, the previous day, then given a resignation speech in the morning, and signed his letter of resignation. Only after that, when boarding the helicopter to take him from the Whitehouse, did the "nuclear football" not accompany him.
That is a very different situation from taking the codes away from Trump right now.
posted by ryanrs at 3:59 AM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
My understanding is that Nixon had already stated his intention to resign, on television, the previous day, then given a resignation speech in the morning, and signed his letter of resignation. Only after that, when boarding the helicopter to take him from the Whitehouse, did the "nuclear football" not accompany him.
That is a very different situation from taking the codes away from Trump right now.
posted by ryanrs at 3:59 AM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
In order to order a strike, the POTUS must have access to the football. If it is not present or does not contain the necessary codes and procedures, a strike cannot be ordered.
posted by xyzzy at 4:00 AM on August 18, 2017
posted by xyzzy at 4:00 AM on August 18, 2017
The order is supposed to be verified by the Secretary of Defense but he has no veto power over it.
Maybe the Sec Def can refuse to verify it, forcing Trump to fire him and then go through a list of subordinates until someone acquiesces, just like firing Mueller, ha ha.
posted by ryanrs at 4:01 AM on August 18, 2017
Maybe the Sec Def can refuse to verify it, forcing Trump to fire him and then go through a list of subordinates until someone acquiesces, just like firing Mueller, ha ha.
posted by ryanrs at 4:01 AM on August 18, 2017
Would it not be possible for a president to voluntarily give up the football? Perhaps he was told that he needs to resign within a certain time or face impeachment or the 25th amendment option, but that he could buy himself a little time to get his affairs in order, first, if he agreed to some concessions (like voluntarily renouncing his authority to launch a nuclear strike).
All pure conjecture, but who knows what sort of behind-the-scenes machinations may be taking place regarding Trump's future tenure as president.
posted by syzygy at 4:03 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
All pure conjecture, but who knows what sort of behind-the-scenes machinations may be taking place regarding Trump's future tenure as president.
posted by syzygy at 4:03 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
I think it just means he's forgotten how to use it and no-one will tell him.
posted by walrus at 4:04 AM on August 18, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by walrus at 4:04 AM on August 18, 2017 [17 favorites]
Dear Tina Fey,
I'm not going to preface this by noting that normally I love your work, because it doesn't matter. You really blew this one.
1. Historically, citizens staying home and ignoring Nazis does not end well. Please don't recommend we do that.
2. Not all drag queens are 6'4" black men who can kick people's asses.
3. Stop already with the "stress-eating woman shoving food into her face like an animal" trope; most of us don't appreciate it.
4. You could have said something really meaningful; instead we're back to "ladies go crazy and overeat."
So thanks for nothing, I guess.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 4:05 AM on August 18, 2017 [47 favorites]
I'm not going to preface this by noting that normally I love your work, because it doesn't matter. You really blew this one.
1. Historically, citizens staying home and ignoring Nazis does not end well. Please don't recommend we do that.
2. Not all drag queens are 6'4" black men who can kick people's asses.
3. Stop already with the "stress-eating woman shoving food into her face like an animal" trope; most of us don't appreciate it.
4. You could have said something really meaningful; instead we're back to "ladies go crazy and overeat."
So thanks for nothing, I guess.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 4:05 AM on August 18, 2017 [47 favorites]
Yes, he technically has the power to do it whenever. In practicality though, there are possibilities of restraining him though I wouldn't count on it. And as mentioned they did it with Nixon.
The Most Patriotic Act of Treason in American History?
That time a drunk Richard Nixon tried to nuke North Korea
The Most Patriotic Act of Treason in American History?
It sounds more Hollywood than history. A paranoid president, unhinged, drinking heavily, ranting against his enemies, terrifies subordinates. The defense secretary commits what may be the most patriotic act of treason in American history: ordering the Joint Chiefs of Staff to ignore any White House military initiatives lacking his signature.And this wasn't even the first time with Nixon.
Most historians believe that as Richard Nixon staggered toward resignation in 1974, Secretary of Defense James R. Schlesinger undermined the president’s constitutional authority. The late Watergate expert Stanley Kutler was skeptical, asking where was the paper trail? But who would write down such orders? It is more believable that this prickly, patriotic, public servant risked his career to save America rather than risking his reputation by inventing such a crazy story.
That time a drunk Richard Nixon tried to nuke North Korea
George Carver, a CIA Vietnam specialist at the time of the EC-121 shootdown, is reported to have said that Nixon became “incensed” when he found out about the EC-121. The President got on the phone with the Joint Chiefs of Staff and ordered plans for a tactical nuclear strike and recommendations for targets.posted by chris24 at 4:05 AM on August 18, 2017 [34 favorites]
Henry Kissinger, National Security Advisor for Nixon at the time, also got on the phone to the Joint Chiefs and got them to agree to stand down on that order until Nixon woke up sober the next morning.
According to Summers and Swan’s book “The Arrogance Of Power: The Secret World Of Richard Nixon,” Kissinger is reported to have told aides on multiple occasions that if the President had his way, there would have been a new nuclear war every week.
In other areas, the "Deep State" has been leaking shit on Trump and his administration for months. Again, all fine and dandy when there's a madman in the WH, but what about future POTUSes?
LOL. I think you mean Trump and his administration has been leaking shit on Trump and his administration for months. So . . problem solved for future POTUSes.
posted by rc3spencer at 4:07 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
LOL. I think you mean Trump and his administration has been leaking shit on Trump and his administration for months. So . . problem solved for future POTUSes.
posted by rc3spencer at 4:07 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
The Madman and the Bomb
This article covers Nixon and nukes, and mentions his loss of the football before his resignation was complete. And this paragraph, which seems timely:
posted by honestcoyote at 4:07 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
This article covers Nixon and nukes, and mentions his loss of the football before his resignation was complete. And this paragraph, which seems timely:
Moreover, Defense Secretary James Schlesinger recalled years later that in the final days of the Nixon presidency he had issued an unprecedented set of orders: If the president gave any nuclear launch order, military commanders should check with either him or Secretary of State Henry Kissinger before executing them. Schlesinger feared that the president, who seemed depressed and was drinking heavily, might order Armageddon.I have no idea if the rumor about Trump is true, but it's plausible. With Trump and staff having no idea how anything works in the White House, Mattis or Kelly could probably engineer the removal of the football without any pushback. And it would explain the "military has given up on Trump" stories of late. If some reporters know, but were told off the record, they could write stories like that as a very indirect indication.
posted by honestcoyote at 4:07 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
Why isn't this being played at marches? It was a #1 hit for Spike Jones and was in loony tunes,
posted by rough ashlar at 4:14 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by rough ashlar at 4:14 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
After they won the championship, there were unofficial reports that the Warriors would not be going to the White House to meet with Trump. And while the team hasn't confirmed it, Kevin Durant has now said he will not go and doesn't think anyone else will either.
Kevin Durant says he will not visit President Donald Trump at the White House if the NBA champion Golden State Warriors are invited
Kevin Durant says he will not visit President Donald Trump at the White House if the NBA champion Golden State Warriors are invited
"Nah, I won't do that," said Durant, the 2017 NBA Finals MVP. "I don't respect who's in office right now... I don't agree with what he agrees with, so my voice is going to be heard by not doing that," said Durant, who said it wasn't an organizational decision. "That's just me personally, but if I know my guys well enough, they'll all agree with me."posted by chris24 at 4:15 AM on August 18, 2017 [14 favorites]
Would it not be possible for a president to voluntarily give up the football?
Depending on the specifics of how it's done, that leads to one of three scenarios:
1) Nobody has ultimate authority to launch US nuclear weapons.
2) Someone in the military has been given authority to launch nukes. They are no longer under civilian control.
3) Someone not in the military has launch authority of the nukes. They are under civilian control, but not the democratically elected executive.
All very interesting situations!
posted by ryanrs at 4:16 AM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
Depending on the specifics of how it's done, that leads to one of three scenarios:
1) Nobody has ultimate authority to launch US nuclear weapons.
2) Someone in the military has been given authority to launch nukes. They are no longer under civilian control.
3) Someone not in the military has launch authority of the nukes. They are under civilian control, but not the democratically elected executive.
All very interesting situations!
posted by ryanrs at 4:16 AM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
Not all drag queens are 6'4" black men who can kick people's asses.
JFC, I missed this on the first watchthrough. Tina Fey! COME ON.
In other areas, the "Deep State" has been leaking shit on Trump and his administration for months. Again, all fine and dandy when there's a madman in the WH, but what about future POTUSes?
Trump & Co like to pretend there is a mass underground rebellion, but most of the leaks aren't so much "here's a copy of top-secret intelligence documents straight from The Vault" as they are "I hate working here and I hate that guy who works in the office down the hall so I'm going to shit-talk to Maggie Haberman because she's such a good listener and boy won't that guy be mad when that story gets published." If we make it long enough for someone to do a historical treatment of the Trump Admin I imagine it's going to look less like a functioning workplace and more like the terrified, desperate infighting and power-jockeying one might see in a palace court serving under a mad king.
posted by Anonymous at 4:18 AM on August 18, 2017
JFC, I missed this on the first watchthrough. Tina Fey! COME ON.
In other areas, the "Deep State" has been leaking shit on Trump and his administration for months. Again, all fine and dandy when there's a madman in the WH, but what about future POTUSes?
Trump & Co like to pretend there is a mass underground rebellion, but most of the leaks aren't so much "here's a copy of top-secret intelligence documents straight from The Vault" as they are "I hate working here and I hate that guy who works in the office down the hall so I'm going to shit-talk to Maggie Haberman because she's such a good listener and boy won't that guy be mad when that story gets published." If we make it long enough for someone to do a historical treatment of the Trump Admin I imagine it's going to look less like a functioning workplace and more like the terrified, desperate infighting and power-jockeying one might see in a palace court serving under a mad king.
posted by Anonymous at 4:18 AM on August 18, 2017
@DanteAtkins
There is nothing more representative of the Trump presidency than endorsing an anti-Muslim war crime that didn't actually take place.
posted by chris24 at 4:19 AM on August 18, 2017 [60 favorites]
There is nothing more representative of the Trump presidency than endorsing an anti-Muslim war crime that didn't actually take place.
posted by chris24 at 4:19 AM on August 18, 2017 [60 favorites]
In order to order a strike, the POTUS must have access to the football. If it is not present or does not contain the necessary codes and procedures, a strike cannot be ordered.
I've long suspected that given the long known compromise by the Russians, there was a plan in place from some Rand study in the 60's "What to do if the President is compromised by Russia?" that they were sure were never going to be used.
The codes in his biscuit probably don't authenticate.
posted by mikelieman at 4:19 AM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
I've long suspected that given the long known compromise by the Russians, there was a plan in place from some Rand study in the 60's "What to do if the President is compromised by Russia?" that they were sure were never going to be used.
The codes in his biscuit probably don't authenticate.
posted by mikelieman at 4:19 AM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
also right now I wish I could draw because I want a cartoon of a Trump drawn in the style of Charles Schulz running up to a football and falling on his back after the military official holding it pulls it away.
posted by Anonymous at 4:20 AM on August 18, 2017
posted by Anonymous at 4:20 AM on August 18, 2017
It's possible that Trump was forced to give the authority to Pence as 'president in waiting'.
Imagine a situation in which a valid 25th amendment declaration has been delivered in a sealed envelope to the President pro tempore of the Senate. The interested parties have informed the president that if he does not cooperate, they will direct the President pro tempore of the Senate to open the envelope, at which time the president would be deemed unable to discharge his duties.
Any other year, I'd say it's a far-fetched theory, but this is, after all, 2017.
posted by syzygy at 4:22 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Imagine a situation in which a valid 25th amendment declaration has been delivered in a sealed envelope to the President pro tempore of the Senate. The interested parties have informed the president that if he does not cooperate, they will direct the President pro tempore of the Senate to open the envelope, at which time the president would be deemed unable to discharge his duties.
Any other year, I'd say it's a far-fetched theory, but this is, after all, 2017.
posted by syzygy at 4:22 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Not all drag queens are 6'4" black men who can kick people's asses.
100% agree - but some do exist and just imagining one of them handing a Nazi their ass on the business end of a stiletto without even smudging their eyeliner does bring a smile to my face and joy to my heart so I appreciate Fey conjuring the image in my mind.
posted by like_neon at 4:23 AM on August 18, 2017 [14 favorites]
100% agree - but some do exist and just imagining one of them handing a Nazi their ass on the business end of a stiletto without even smudging their eyeliner does bring a smile to my face and joy to my heart so I appreciate Fey conjuring the image in my mind.
posted by like_neon at 4:23 AM on August 18, 2017 [14 favorites]
hard to imagine trump being forced from power without him tweeting about it
posted by ryanrs at 4:27 AM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by ryanrs at 4:27 AM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
You could tell Tina Fey could barely get through that drag queen line without flinching.
posted by Yowser at 4:28 AM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Yowser at 4:28 AM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
also right now I wish I could draw because I want a cartoon of a Trump drawn in the style of Charles Schulz running up to a football and falling on his back after the military official holding it pulls it away.
posted by schroedinger at 7:20 PM on August 18 [2 favorites +] [!]
Eponysterical?
posted by michswiss at 4:29 AM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by schroed
Eponysterical?
posted by michswiss at 4:29 AM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
Donald Trump Jr just followed Julian Assange on Twitter. I'm surprised it took this long.
posted by Yowser at 4:30 AM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 4:30 AM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
Again, imagine a scenario in which Trump's been told that his removal from office is a done deal, but that they'll try to work out a way for him to save face if he cooperates.
And that'll be my last contribution on this line of conjecture unless this rumor turns out to have legs :)
posted by syzygy at 4:36 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
And that'll be my last contribution on this line of conjecture unless this rumor turns out to have legs :)
posted by syzygy at 4:36 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Went to sleep 8 hours ago (on my Pure Beech sateen modal sheets) and woke up to the news that there might be a military coup to force Trump out of the presidency? These Friday news bombs are intense.
What happens to the Mueller investigation if Trump exits?
posted by Autumnheart at 4:37 AM on August 18, 2017
What happens to the Mueller investigation if Trump exits?
posted by Autumnheart at 4:37 AM on August 18, 2017
What happens to the Mueller investigation if Trump exits?
he keeps investigating Trump's crimes
posted by mbo at 4:41 AM on August 18, 2017 [17 favorites]
he keeps investigating Trump's crimes
posted by mbo at 4:41 AM on August 18, 2017 [17 favorites]
Assuming Pence doesn't fire him.
posted by Autumnheart at 4:45 AM on August 18, 2017
posted by Autumnheart at 4:45 AM on August 18, 2017
What happens to the Mueller investigation if Trump exits?
Trump pardons himself before resigning. Then Mueller drags him in front of a grand jury to go after everyone else in the administration, then doubles back and nails Trump on perjury for lying to the grand jury, because we all know he will.
posted by ryanrs at 4:46 AM on August 18, 2017 [26 favorites]
Trump pardons himself before resigning. Then Mueller drags him in front of a grand jury to go after everyone else in the administration, then doubles back and nails Trump on perjury for lying to the grand jury, because we all know he will.
posted by ryanrs at 4:46 AM on August 18, 2017 [26 favorites]
And assuming Pence wouldn't pardon Trump.
posted by syzygy at 4:48 AM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by syzygy at 4:48 AM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trump will be radioactive by that point and no R will lift a finger to help him.
posted by ryanrs at 4:50 AM on August 18, 2017
posted by ryanrs at 4:50 AM on August 18, 2017
Hell, by that point they'll be claiming Trump was never really a Republican.
posted by ryanrs at 4:55 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by ryanrs at 4:55 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
I hope someone does it by saying, "YOU'RE FIRED" And then Schwarzenegger tells him that his presidential reality show had the worst ratings of all time.
Then Trump slinks back home and Putin calls him up and says, "Remember how you still owe me a billion dollars? My boys will be by to chat."
posted by Autumnheart at 4:55 AM on August 18, 2017 [10 favorites]
Then Trump slinks back home and Putin calls him up and says, "Remember how you still owe me a billion dollars? My boys will be by to chat."
posted by Autumnheart at 4:55 AM on August 18, 2017 [10 favorites]
Hell, by that point they'll be claiming Trump was never really a Republican.
Yeah. I mean sure, they primaried him, gave him the nomination, ran him on the Republican ticket, and counted him as a Republican president when he won, but that doesn't mean he was really a Republican. /s
My next question is, seeing as how Trump's supporters (including Fox News) are still operating under the conviction that making up your own story and acting like it's true is still a valid way to operate in reality, how do we not end up right back here in a matter of months?
posted by Autumnheart at 5:00 AM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
Yeah. I mean sure, they primaried him, gave him the nomination, ran him on the Republican ticket, and counted him as a Republican president when he won, but that doesn't mean he was really a Republican. /s
My next question is, seeing as how Trump's supporters (including Fox News) are still operating under the conviction that making up your own story and acting like it's true is still a valid way to operate in reality, how do we not end up right back here in a matter of months?
posted by Autumnheart at 5:00 AM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
Again, imagine a scenario in which Trump's been told that his removal from office is a done deal, but that they'll try to work out a way for him to save face if he cooperates.
i can't imagine trump would go for such a thing - i think his last move would be to announce on nationwide TV that he was being overthrown in a "coup" and his supporters needed to stand up and fight against the government
(i don't think he would get anything big enough to save him, but people would complain about the "coup" for years ...)
there's no way out of this mess that doesn't involve breaking something
posted by pyramid termite at 5:03 AM on August 18, 2017 [14 favorites]
i can't imagine trump would go for such a thing - i think his last move would be to announce on nationwide TV that he was being overthrown in a "coup" and his supporters needed to stand up and fight against the government
(i don't think he would get anything big enough to save him, but people would complain about the "coup" for years ...)
there's no way out of this mess that doesn't involve breaking something
posted by pyramid termite at 5:03 AM on August 18, 2017 [14 favorites]
Hope is the cruelest thing, folks.
Failed hope may be, but despair is a sin!
posted by mikelieman at 5:03 AM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
Failed hope may be, but despair is a sin!
posted by mikelieman at 5:03 AM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
they'll be claiming Trump was never really a Republican
So, not so much a hippopotamus as an endangered white rino?
posted by flabdablet at 5:05 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
So, not so much a hippopotamus as an endangered white rino?
posted by flabdablet at 5:05 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
You know how you have some other Jews defending Trump? You can always find a narcissist or contrarian to roll over and have their tummy tickled for the camera.
You know what? Fuck this bullshit. I'm sick and fucking tired of how many Jews, and especially Reform and secular Jews, are being characterized like this, and the patronizing shittiness on top only makes it worse. To try and make a rabbi promoting social justice the equivalent of collaborators to actual fascists and white supremacists is disgusting. This is exactly the same kind of "both sides are equally bad" bullshit that Trump is pulling, and it is appalling to see it here.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:05 AM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
You know what? Fuck this bullshit. I'm sick and fucking tired of how many Jews, and especially Reform and secular Jews, are being characterized like this, and the patronizing shittiness on top only makes it worse. To try and make a rabbi promoting social justice the equivalent of collaborators to actual fascists and white supremacists is disgusting. This is exactly the same kind of "both sides are equally bad" bullshit that Trump is pulling, and it is appalling to see it here.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:05 AM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
He actually had control of the football, but he was out of bounds so it doesn't count.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 5:08 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Huffy Puffy at 5:08 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
Also, to borrow from galaxy rise in another thread:
They apologized for what happened, explained why it occurred, and explained how they're working to mitigate the consequences and to prevent it from happening again. What more can you ask for?posted by zombieflanders at 5:09 AM on August 18, 2017 [19 favorites]
I also take to heart this tweet by Mark Tseng-Putterman: Nonblack Jews: maybe, lets ask why we didn't know date of largest lynching in US history before we ask why M4RJ was scheduled on Yom Kippur.
If anyone from Deadspin happens to be reading: Why Your Team Sucks 2017: The Trump Administration would be more popular than the time Tim Tebow went to Williams-Sonoma and his dick fell out.
posted by box at 5:35 AM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by box at 5:35 AM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
He is better suited for European football, anyway. Not much of a team player, but he brings his own hooligans and an accidental handball should be nigh-impossible for him.
posted by delfin at 5:38 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by delfin at 5:38 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
I....did not think Fey was seriously recommending we stay home and eat cake? As I recall, she was describing stress eating that one does because every fucking day horrible shit happens. As we often mention here on metafilter in these threads?
posted by emjaybee at 5:41 AM on August 18, 2017 [43 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 5:41 AM on August 18, 2017 [43 favorites]
If anyone wants to get mad at someone other than a heretofore-unknown rabbi who likely echoes many local Jewish residents, and wants to get mad at someone who actually defends Trump and is a narcissist who loves to roll over and have their tummy tickled for the camera, there's always the Prime Minister of Israel:
The sight of Nazi flags on the streets of a U.S. city, and an armed rabble chanting “Jews will not replace us,” should have triggered a kind of reverse “Godwin Law,” with all equivocations and debate coming to a halt. Yet it took the leader of the Jewish State three long days to find the words to condemn the disgrace.And, of course the resemblance to the Trump family continued with their own bigoted wastrel son of a bigoted wastrel son:
“Outraged by expressions of anti-Semitism, neo-Nazism and racism. Everyone should oppose this hatred,” Netanyahu finally tweeted on Tuesday. For the self-ascribed “prime minister of all Jews” the delay was conspicuous, as was the lack of any additional concrete references. Indeed, as The Washington Post pointed out, the tweet was issued by the official Prime Minister of Israel Twitter account, and not Netanyahu’s vastly more popular personal handle.
[F]or real insight into Netanyahu’s mind, one need look no further than his 26-year old son, Yair. On Wednesday, Yair, by all reports now a close advisor to his father, took to Facebook to issue his own clear and unequivocal statement – in English no less, and for the entire world to see.posted by zombieflanders at 5:54 AM on August 18, 2017 [28 favorites]
“To put things in perspective. I'm a Jew, I'm an Israeli, the neo nazis scums in Virginia hate me and my country. But they belong to the past. Their breed is dying out,” he wrote. “However the thugs of Antifa and BLM who hate my country (and America too in my view) just as much are getting stronger and stronger and becoming super dominant in American universities and public life.”
Dems launch full assault on Trump over Charlottesville (The Hill)
phrasing?
posted by Barack Spinoza at 6:19 AM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
phrasing?
posted by Barack Spinoza at 6:19 AM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
EFF goes all ACLU
Let's face it, it's probably riddled with libertarian types.
posted by Artw at 6:19 AM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Let's face it, it's probably riddled with libertarian types.
posted by Artw at 6:19 AM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
This about sums it up on people discovering Nazis are bad.
posted by Artw at 6:24 AM on August 18, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:24 AM on August 18, 2017 [22 favorites]
As I recall, she was describing stress eating that one does because every fucking day horrible shit happens. As we often mention here on metafilter in these threads?
When your whole bit is a retreaded Cathy comic strip, I'm pretty sure you're not doing much for whatever movement you're pushing. Not the best use of a platform.
The proper way to use your celebrity to address a serious issue isn't "chocolate chocolate chocolate ACK."
posted by FakeFreyja at 6:28 AM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
When your whole bit is a retreaded Cathy comic strip, I'm pretty sure you're not doing much for whatever movement you're pushing. Not the best use of a platform.
The proper way to use your celebrity to address a serious issue isn't "chocolate chocolate chocolate ACK."
posted by FakeFreyja at 6:28 AM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
Mother of Charlottesville Victim: "I have not, and now I will not" speak to President Trump. "I am not speaking to the President now, I'm sorry, after what he said about my child."
posted by murphy slaw at 6:29 AM on August 18, 2017 [90 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 6:29 AM on August 18, 2017 [90 favorites]
EFF goes all ACLUUgh. I've been a member and contributor to them for >10 years, but I'm thinking my monthly donation to them would be better spent at SPLC.
Let's face it, it's probably riddled with libertarian types.
posted by strange chain at 6:29 AM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
EFF decided not to step up during Gamergate and similar campaigns, so I'm not even expecting a "we'll make exceptions for people threatening/encouraging violence" stance like the one the ACLU finally took.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:34 AM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 6:34 AM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
I think the EFF does valuable work, but they've always been about defending the utopian vision of the Internet circa 1996 rather than grappling with what the Internet has turned out to be.
posted by murphy slaw at 6:36 AM on August 18, 2017 [45 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 6:36 AM on August 18, 2017 [45 favorites]
I'm thinking my monthly donation to them would be better spent at SPLC.
Recurring trend of 2017.
posted by Artw at 6:37 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
Recurring trend of 2017.
posted by Artw at 6:37 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
But in barely seven months Trump has reduced his presidency to a steaming pile of policy failure and moral bankruptcy.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:38 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:38 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
Also, from their statement:
posted by zombieflanders at 6:41 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
But if there is a single reason why so many individuals and companies are acting together now to unite against neo-Nazis, it is because a future that seemed unlikely a few years ago—that white nationalists and Nazis now have significant power and influence in our society—now seems possible.It's amazing how little they seem to know about history, white supremacy, politics, economics, and tech companies' stances, among many other subjects. I mean, did they have anyone who's not white and privileged as fuck help write this?
posted by zombieflanders at 6:41 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
I've been annoyed with the EFF over SESTA. Judge after judge has told prosecutor after prosecutor that if they want to shut down Backpage.com they need to get Congress to carve out something from the CDA that allows prosecutors to show that if a site like Backpage is deliberately helping advertisers skirt around the letter of the law that they are breaking a law themselves. As the CDA is currently written there is no way to go after Backpage.com for helping child sex traffickers write ads that reduce their chances of getting caught selling children for the purposes of sex. If the EFF has a better idea than "STOP SESTA" I would love to hear it, but so far all they seem capable of doing is waving around 1A and shouting "DANGER!" This article reads much the same. "Nazis bad but if we let this happen then Google will shut down BLM next!" Great, EFF. What are your ideas? No? K, then.
posted by xyzzy at 6:43 AM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 6:43 AM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
The "Tina Fey gave bad advice and told people to not protest" take is easily the worst take from liberal/leftland of the past week (a competition for which there is never any lack of competition) because, I'm sorry, it's a goddamn comedy sketch, and one that's obviously satirical in intent, and moreover we are not talking some sort of subtle, cutting Wodehousian satire but the type that involves a woman proposing that you dip a grilled cheese sandwich into the shards of a sheet cake in order to relieve stress, which frankly came across like a warning to people overly inclined to take comedians seriously that this sketch in particular wasn't supposed to be taken seriously as a guide to how to deal with oppression - along with Michael Che grabbing cake when Fey started talking about the proliferation of militias, or Fey all but screaming about how the Standing Rock protestors were assaulted by police.
The Left has been doing this for like a decade now, complaining that comedians who engage with politics aren't providing a manifesto for resistance. And it's true, they mostly don't. Because that's not their job.
(A better critique of the sketch would note that the drag queens bit is, at best, clumsy and not really sensitive to a culture which Fey clearly thinks of in approving terms; a simple "drag queens will shove a six-inch heel up your ass" would have worked better than the "6'4" black man" bit.)
posted by mightygodking at 6:43 AM on August 18, 2017 [62 favorites]
The Left has been doing this for like a decade now, complaining that comedians who engage with politics aren't providing a manifesto for resistance. And it's true, they mostly don't. Because that's not their job.
(A better critique of the sketch would note that the drag queens bit is, at best, clumsy and not really sensitive to a culture which Fey clearly thinks of in approving terms; a simple "drag queens will shove a six-inch heel up your ass" would have worked better than the "6'4" black man" bit.)
posted by mightygodking at 6:43 AM on August 18, 2017 [62 favorites]
The cake thing was not my favorite ever. I get that it's stress eating like ladies do, but it also reminds everyone of Marie Antoinette, and also I couldn't catch half of what she said, which might have been good but hell if I know. Did enjoy Che suddenly wanting cake though.
Wouldn't have called Donald attractive or however she said it, though..
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:53 AM on August 18, 2017
Wouldn't have called Donald attractive or however she said it, though..
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:53 AM on August 18, 2017
You could tell Tina Fey could barely get through that drag queen line without flinching.
She almost certainly wrote it.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:55 AM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
She almost certainly wrote it.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:55 AM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
Tina fey is great but my god does she have form on weak-ass activism-is-silly sentiments.
posted by Artw at 6:59 AM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:59 AM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
Wouldn't have called Donald attractive or however she said it, though..
"...then our president, Donald John Trump - and I don't think people talk enough about what a stupid, jackass name that is, Donald John? It does not flow! Oh, whatever, he gets away with it because he's gorgeous."
s a t i r e
posted by mightygodking at 7:00 AM on August 18, 2017 [37 favorites]
"...then our president, Donald John Trump - and I don't think people talk enough about what a stupid, jackass name that is, Donald John? It does not flow! Oh, whatever, he gets away with it because he's gorgeous."
s a t i r e
posted by mightygodking at 7:00 AM on August 18, 2017 [37 favorites]
I was not aware that every word that Tina Fey says must be carefully calibrated for maximum activist effectiveness. God forbid she should merely joke about her existential despair by eating an entire cake whilst disparaging the state of the nation! Doesn't she know that lame cake jokes are why the Democrats will never win??
Yeah this is turning into a derail. But next time you joke "I've been drunk since the election. LOLsob!" just remember, we're all very disappointed in you.
posted by emjaybee at 7:04 AM on August 18, 2017 [71 favorites]
Yeah this is turning into a derail. But next time you joke "I've been drunk since the election. LOLsob!" just remember, we're all very disappointed in you.
posted by emjaybee at 7:04 AM on August 18, 2017 [71 favorites]
chris24: Many of his supporters, myself included, managed to convince ourselves that his more outrageous comments — such as the Judge Gonzalo Curiel controversy or his initial hesitance to disavow David Duke’s endorsement — were merely Bidenesque gaffes committed during the heat of a campaign.
OHNOYOUFUCKINGDIDIN'T - "accidentally racist" isn't a "Bidenesque gaffe," like saying health
care is "a big fucking deal" barely off-mic or saying that Hillary Clinton was more qualified to be VP or any of the other top 10 Biden gaffes, per Time Magazine. Hey, look - none of them are racist dog whistles.
OK, calling Obama "the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy" is awful, but somehow doesn't compare to waffling on accepting praise from David Duke.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:04 AM on August 18, 2017 [19 favorites]
OHNOYOUFUCKINGDIDIN'T - "accidentally racist" isn't a "Bidenesque gaffe," like saying health
care is "a big fucking deal" barely off-mic or saying that Hillary Clinton was more qualified to be VP or any of the other top 10 Biden gaffes, per Time Magazine. Hey, look - none of them are racist dog whistles.
OK, calling Obama "the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy" is awful, but somehow doesn't compare to waffling on accepting praise from David Duke.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:04 AM on August 18, 2017 [19 favorites]
Elizabeth Warren is holding a town hall next week. Here, in my town. IN MY TOWN, FOLKS!
posted by lydhre at 7:07 AM on August 18, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 7:07 AM on August 18, 2017 [17 favorites]
WaPo National parks put a ban on bottled water to ease pollution. Trump just sided with the lobby that fought it.
Although we are done with him, he is not done with us. On that note, the latest The Weeds podcast had a number of interesting topics including the new proposals for Merit-based immigration. I highly recommend it if you are ready to take a break from punching Nazis.
On a lighter note, this is pretty hilarious
Politico: The agonizing, 8-page memo on how to chauffeur a congressman
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:09 AM on August 18, 2017 [15 favorites]
Although we are done with him, he is not done with us. On that note, the latest The Weeds podcast had a number of interesting topics including the new proposals for Merit-based immigration. I highly recommend it if you are ready to take a break from punching Nazis.
On a lighter note, this is pretty hilarious
Politico: The agonizing, 8-page memo on how to chauffeur a congressman
Rokita needs a hanger in the car for his jacket. Never allow him to be photographed with a drink in his hand. And never forget, the memo states multiple times in boldface, underlined letters, to remind the 47-year-old to bring the essentials.The drivers are asked to take on the responsibilities of private assistant, campaign manager, and aide. It is absolutely bonkers especially when it requires the drivers to keep quiet except when they need to nag the congressman about certain things or to alert him to people who might be trying to take "embarrassing pictures."
“When TER enters the car, check to ensure he has his phone and wallet,” the instructions say, referring to Rokita by his initials.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:09 AM on August 18, 2017 [15 favorites]
I also take to heart this tweet by Mark Tseng-Putterman: Nonblack Jews: maybe, lets ask why we didn't know date of largest lynching in US history before we ask why M4RJ was scheduled on Yom Kippur.
Well, for one thing, Yom Kippur is the second holiest holiday of the Jewish year, coming in right behind Shabbat, and arguably the most observed religious day among religious and not-so religious Jews. It has personal meaning for us in a way that is far different from "this horrible thing happened on this date in history." It's also observed annually, so it's foremost in our minds.
Jews in this country have dealt with decades (if not centuries) of anti-semitic punishments by Christians because we observe our holidays. This is a very, very common form of anti-Semitism that is still practiced by teachers in schools and employers at jobs across the country. We don't need more false equivalency bullshit thrown at us when we think we see it happening again.
posted by zarq at 7:09 AM on August 18, 2017 [18 favorites]
Well, for one thing, Yom Kippur is the second holiest holiday of the Jewish year, coming in right behind Shabbat, and arguably the most observed religious day among religious and not-so religious Jews. It has personal meaning for us in a way that is far different from "this horrible thing happened on this date in history." It's also observed annually, so it's foremost in our minds.
Jews in this country have dealt with decades (if not centuries) of anti-semitic punishments by Christians because we observe our holidays. This is a very, very common form of anti-Semitism that is still practiced by teachers in schools and employers at jobs across the country. We don't need more false equivalency bullshit thrown at us when we think we see it happening again.
posted by zarq at 7:09 AM on August 18, 2017 [18 favorites]
a whole hangar for a coat/jacket? talk about government waste!
posted by entropicamericana at 7:10 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 7:10 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
a whole hangar for a coat/jacket? talk about government waste!
Actually, the bit eye-roll was for the item called "The Football"
posted by mikelieman at 7:15 AM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Actually, the bit eye-roll was for the item called "The Football"
posted by mikelieman at 7:15 AM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
So maybe we talk about how we deal with Rs fleeing Trump. Because it's going to happen more and more.
um: They leave themselves an out, which leads me to believe they haven't actually repudiated the Devil, they just don't like the form he's currently taking.
"This devil isn't as tricky as the devils I usually vote for, so I'll try to do better next time that I want to split up families that have resided in the country for decades, discriminate against the LGBTQ community, remove health care from millions of Americans, and roll back environmental protections that ensure cleaner air and water for all."
And yet people were thrilled that Trump was a plain-talking bully on the path towards presidency.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:15 AM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
um: They leave themselves an out, which leads me to believe they haven't actually repudiated the Devil, they just don't like the form he's currently taking.
"This devil isn't as tricky as the devils I usually vote for, so I'll try to do better next time that I want to split up families that have resided in the country for decades, discriminate against the LGBTQ community, remove health care from millions of Americans, and roll back environmental protections that ensure cleaner air and water for all."
And yet people were thrilled that Trump was a plain-talking bully on the path towards presidency.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:15 AM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
Today's note to my representative:
"Good morning. It's not too early to ask Rep. [Republican] to join/begin a resolution to censure the president, is it?
"This latest tweet is a call for law enforcement and the military to behave vengefully. And indecently. The MacArthur story is false (and theologically unsound), but what matters is that these words are an official statement from the president, and set the command climate. There is a REASON that the leaders of four branches of the U.S. military broke with their commander-in-chief to say "Nope, there's not gonna be racist behavior in our services" and that's because they are concerned about the message coming from the top.
"Support the armed services. Censure the president for conduct unbecoming."
posted by MonkeyToes at 7:16 AM on August 18, 2017 [17 favorites]
"Good morning. It's not too early to ask Rep. [Republican] to join/begin a resolution to censure the president, is it?
"This latest tweet is a call for law enforcement and the military to behave vengefully. And indecently. The MacArthur story is false (and theologically unsound), but what matters is that these words are an official statement from the president, and set the command climate. There is a REASON that the leaders of four branches of the U.S. military broke with their commander-in-chief to say "Nope, there's not gonna be racist behavior in our services" and that's because they are concerned about the message coming from the top.
"Support the armed services. Censure the president for conduct unbecoming."
posted by MonkeyToes at 7:16 AM on August 18, 2017 [17 favorites]
It has personal meaning for us in a way that is far different from "this horrible thing happened on this date in history."
That doesn't necessarily mean that the power behind the meaning isn't the same.
This is a very, very common form of anti-Semitism that is still practiced by teachers in schools and employers at jobs across the country. We don't need more false equivalency bullshit thrown at us when we think we see it happening again.
Whatever you believe their motivations (or lack thereof), it certainly wasn't an "act of hate" on the same level as siding with or being complicit in Trump's Nazi apologism as characterized in this thread.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:22 AM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
That doesn't necessarily mean that the power behind the meaning isn't the same.
This is a very, very common form of anti-Semitism that is still practiced by teachers in schools and employers at jobs across the country. We don't need more false equivalency bullshit thrown at us when we think we see it happening again.
Whatever you believe their motivations (or lack thereof), it certainly wasn't an "act of hate" on the same level as siding with or being complicit in Trump's Nazi apologism as characterized in this thread.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:22 AM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
That doesn't necessarily mean that the power behind the meaning isn't the same.
No, it doesn't. But telling us that we should be prioritizing them equally is self-righteous bullshit.
Whatever you believe their motivations (or lack thereof), it certainly wasn't an "act of hate" on the same level as siding with or being complicit in Trump's Nazi apologism as characterized in this thread.
I did not say it was.
posted by zarq at 7:25 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
No, it doesn't. But telling us that we should be prioritizing them equally is self-righteous bullshit.
Whatever you believe their motivations (or lack thereof), it certainly wasn't an "act of hate" on the same level as siding with or being complicit in Trump's Nazi apologism as characterized in this thread.
I did not say it was.
posted by zarq at 7:25 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
More light Friday morning reading: Donald Trump marches to war — in his own country.
“Everyone is mad about something and everyone has a gun.”
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:28 AM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
“Everyone is mad about something and everyone has a gun.”
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:28 AM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
I don't believe that it was Nazi apologism. I don't think it was intentional. I don't really think there's any way to fix it at this point, beyond what the organizers have done. But I think it was really intensely symbolic, and it leaves me feeling even more alone and unsafe than I already was, and I was feeling pretty alone and unsafe before this mess. It is a reminder that Jews have no allies and can expect no solidarity. And that fucking sucks.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:28 AM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:28 AM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
The Atlantic Donald Trump Is a Lame-Duck President
@Scott Dworkin 2 hill staffers just told me Republicans got polling numbers back tonight & they're disastrous-Tmrw could be worst day for Trump since inaug
So far he has been too outrageous on twitter this morning . He has tweeted about the border (Homeland Security and law enforcement are on alert & closely watching for any sign of trouble. Our borders are far tougher than ever before!) the Democrats (The Obstructionist Democrats make Security for our country very difficult. They use the courts and associated delay at all times. Must stop!) ISIS (Radical Islamic Terrorism must be stopped by whatever means necessary! The courts must give us back our protective rights. Have to be tough!) and a schedule note [Heading to Camp David for major meeting on National Security, the Border and the Military (which we are rapidly building to strongest ever).] These all seem like fairly mild tweets for him. There's a lot of angst about how he will treat Heather Heyer's mom who rebuffed him.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:28 AM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
Consider the things that happen in a lame-duck period.Late last night
A lame-duck president’s legislative agenda starts to stall out. Members of Congress are just no longer interested in following the president’s lead, especially where it might create a political liability for them. Big bills start to waste away on Capitol Hill, and where a new president would bring both political capital and novelty to bear, a lame duck just doesn’t have the juice. So it is with Trump. His various attempts to repeal and replace Obamacare have all failed, and while he was able to force both houses of Congress to take them back up before, largely through sheer force of will, his more recent pleas have fallen on deaf ears. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell has indicated he has no interest in heading into the breach once again, and GOP members have largely agreed with him.
A lame-duck president gets caught in a vicious cycle. Once legislators start refusing to follow his lead, he begins to look like a paper tiger, so they follow his lead even less. Now that Republican senators have defied Trump once, why should they get in line on other controversial bills, like tax reform?
@Scott Dworkin 2 hill staffers just told me Republicans got polling numbers back tonight & they're disastrous-Tmrw could be worst day for Trump since inaug
So far he has been too outrageous on twitter this morning . He has tweeted about the border (Homeland Security and law enforcement are on alert & closely watching for any sign of trouble. Our borders are far tougher than ever before!) the Democrats (The Obstructionist Democrats make Security for our country very difficult. They use the courts and associated delay at all times. Must stop!) ISIS (Radical Islamic Terrorism must be stopped by whatever means necessary! The courts must give us back our protective rights. Have to be tough!) and a schedule note [Heading to Camp David for major meeting on National Security, the Border and the Military (which we are rapidly building to strongest ever).] These all seem like fairly mild tweets for him. There's a lot of angst about how he will treat Heather Heyer's mom who rebuffed him.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:28 AM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
Has the Liberal Media Enabled a Nationwide Crackdown on Trump's Political Enemies?
The president's smear of the "alt-left" echoes what mainstream outlets have been saying for months.
Recent articles in the Atlantic and Politico have pointed to a growing consensus condemning antifascist community defense as responsible for increased far-right violence. To the website It’s Going Down, the pattern is clear:
“The right is victimizing itself and vilifying us. There’s a reason why we’re being demonized at the same time as we’re being repressed.”
It’s Going Down's message for liberals is simple: “They’re coming for you too.”
posted by adamvasco at 7:29 AM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
The president's smear of the "alt-left" echoes what mainstream outlets have been saying for months.
Recent articles in the Atlantic and Politico have pointed to a growing consensus condemning antifascist community defense as responsible for increased far-right violence. To the website It’s Going Down, the pattern is clear:
“The right is victimizing itself and vilifying us. There’s a reason why we’re being demonized at the same time as we’re being repressed.”
It’s Going Down's message for liberals is simple: “They’re coming for you too.”
posted by adamvasco at 7:29 AM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
Promise, I don't want to dig in deeper on Tina Fey but I feel like I didn't articulate my disappointment clearly enough:
she says, "instead of participating in the screaming matches and potential violence...order a cake with an American flag on it, and just eat it..."
then...when you want to protest the Klan, "don't yell it at the Klan, yell it at the cake...". I mean, the KKK stands for highly horrific shit and historically, ignoring Nazis does not end well--suggesting we ignore them NOW strikes me as ridiculous.
and..."Sheetcaking is a national movement, Colin; most of the women I know have been doing it once a week since the election..." and she ends on encouraging people to not show up to any rallies.
Like, hahaha women be so out of control we all eat our feelings is kind of yuck, but of all the things she could have said--and yes she got in a ton of great digs--telling people to overeat instead of protesting against Nazis struck me as a fail.
If she was saying it all with a wink, I didn't catch the wink.
(now stepping away from Tina Fey derail)
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 7:34 AM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
she says, "instead of participating in the screaming matches and potential violence...order a cake with an American flag on it, and just eat it..."
then...when you want to protest the Klan, "don't yell it at the Klan, yell it at the cake...". I mean, the KKK stands for highly horrific shit and historically, ignoring Nazis does not end well--suggesting we ignore them NOW strikes me as ridiculous.
and..."Sheetcaking is a national movement, Colin; most of the women I know have been doing it once a week since the election..." and she ends on encouraging people to not show up to any rallies.
Like, hahaha women be so out of control we all eat our feelings is kind of yuck, but of all the things she could have said--and yes she got in a ton of great digs--telling people to overeat instead of protesting against Nazis struck me as a fail.
If she was saying it all with a wink, I didn't catch the wink.
(now stepping away from Tina Fey derail)
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 7:34 AM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
This is the statement from the March for Racial Justice. It is a wholly mature and welcome effort to explain that the organizers made a mistake, and explains their reasoning for picking that date. It also outlines their efforts to March again on October 1st. It doesn't condemn Jews. It doesn't ask us to choose. It doesn't lecture us about not knowing the importance of an historical date.
That's a far better, kinder and healthier response to the situation than the tweet you linked to.
posted by zarq at 7:34 AM on August 18, 2017 [36 favorites]
That's a far better, kinder and healthier response to the situation than the tweet you linked to.
posted by zarq at 7:34 AM on August 18, 2017 [36 favorites]
I'm bummed this morning in part because I went to a county democratic committee meeting and there were stairs and then a ramp that was like concave so I needed help getting down and it was too perilous to get up on my own so when the meeting went a half hour over and my ride was waiting I asked for help and my helper was freaked out because I have no handles on my chair because i don't like being pushed and avoid going to areas where I need to be pushed. I'd called earlier to confirm accessibility but only got a machine.
so now I'm going to pursue ADAPT which is fine but man I am sort of pissed that disabled folks have their separate space where the dominant narrative is access to healthcare. I mean yay ADAPT but I'm as agitated about white nationalism as I am health care.
Sorry for the rant
posted by angrycat at 7:35 AM on August 18, 2017 [37 favorites]
so now I'm going to pursue ADAPT which is fine but man I am sort of pissed that disabled folks have their separate space where the dominant narrative is access to healthcare. I mean yay ADAPT but I'm as agitated about white nationalism as I am health care.
Sorry for the rant
posted by angrycat at 7:35 AM on August 18, 2017 [37 favorites]
Hell, by that point they'll be claiming Trump was never really a Republican.
It will shock you how much it never happened.
I don't think people talk enough about what a stupid, jackass name that is, Donald John?
How about Don John? Don John Dump.
But next time you joke 'I've been drunk since the election. LOLsob!'
Who's joking?
posted by kirkaracha at 7:35 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
I just thought Tina Fey's bit was flat and sort of empty. I love her but this felt like a rushed and vague effort. Meh, not worth arguing over.
Overall, feeling very meh about SNL's coverage these days. There've been a few amazing gems, like McCarthy, but otherwise they're just repeating what's actually being said by politicians (which began with Palin, although again some of their skits were hilarious). How about some real insight?
posted by Melismata at 7:36 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Overall, feeling very meh about SNL's coverage these days. There've been a few amazing gems, like McCarthy, but otherwise they're just repeating what's actually being said by politicians (which began with Palin, although again some of their skits were hilarious). How about some real insight?
posted by Melismata at 7:36 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
It is a reminder that Jews have no allies and can expect no solidarity. And that fucking sucks.
In part because I'm a Jewish resident of DC, I don't necessarily agree with this sentiment. That said, I can definitely understand it.
That's a far better, kinder and healthy response to the situation than the tweet you linked to.
Indeed it is, and in retrospect I wish I had included the part of galaxy rise's comment that included that as well.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:36 AM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
In part because I'm a Jewish resident of DC, I don't necessarily agree with this sentiment. That said, I can definitely understand it.
That's a far better, kinder and healthy response to the situation than the tweet you linked to.
Indeed it is, and in retrospect I wish I had included the part of galaxy rise's comment that included that as well.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:36 AM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
a schedule note [Heading to Camp David for major meeting on National Security, the Border and the Military (which we are rapidly building to strongest ever)Pence had to fly all the way back to the US to attend a four hour meeting at Camp David about the military? Uh huh.
posted by xyzzy at 7:38 AM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
Now, in the last two decades alone, we're in a situation where we've had a SCOTUS decide a Presidential election along partisan lines, two elections where the popular vote winner did not actually become POTUS, a Congress who has blatantly declined to perform their duty to consent to a nomination of a SCJ and paid no price whatsoever...
And each of those benefited the Republicans.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:38 AM on August 18, 2017 [23 favorites]
I have to comment on the Tina Fey bit.
While I am out in the street with boots on, a lot of people, especially a lot of women, especially a lot of mothers are fucking terrified to be out in the streets. I don't blame them and I don't resent them. It is terrifying. I had a ton of people I know asking if they should attend the Women's March (in January) because of the protests that went on at the inauguration the previous day. They DON'T know the difference. They aren't sure what to do. They may not be sophisticated in street protests and they are looking at staying out of the streets this weekend. A lot of mayors are hoping that there will be a bunch of Nazis in an empty field with no one to fight. So, you know what, let's not blame these women for being anxious. Let's not be hypocrites about EATING CAKE. It was a goddamn comedy sketch that hit a lot of buttons and wasn't perfect, but wasn't "weaksauce" either and shouldn't be held to standards of those of us who are used to getting teargassed on the regular.
posted by Sophie1 at 7:46 AM on August 18, 2017 [48 favorites]
While I am out in the street with boots on, a lot of people, especially a lot of women, especially a lot of mothers are fucking terrified to be out in the streets. I don't blame them and I don't resent them. It is terrifying. I had a ton of people I know asking if they should attend the Women's March (in January) because of the protests that went on at the inauguration the previous day. They DON'T know the difference. They aren't sure what to do. They may not be sophisticated in street protests and they are looking at staying out of the streets this weekend. A lot of mayors are hoping that there will be a bunch of Nazis in an empty field with no one to fight. So, you know what, let's not blame these women for being anxious. Let's not be hypocrites about EATING CAKE. It was a goddamn comedy sketch that hit a lot of buttons and wasn't perfect, but wasn't "weaksauce" either and shouldn't be held to standards of those of us who are used to getting teargassed on the regular.
posted by Sophie1 at 7:46 AM on August 18, 2017 [48 favorites]
If she was saying it all with a wink, I didn't catch the wink.
I did. I very much did.
posted by jessamyn at 7:48 AM on August 18, 2017 [41 favorites]
I did. I very much did.
posted by jessamyn at 7:48 AM on August 18, 2017 [41 favorites]
My take away from the Fey critique is that SNL needs to bring in Samantha Bee as a writer?
posted by mikelieman at 7:50 AM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by mikelieman at 7:50 AM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
The wining I should there, but at the same time Kimmy Schmidt season 4 is now going to be an excelent coedy marred by extended bit on people failing to catch the wink with the deck heavily stacked toward a philosophy of bland bother-siderism.
posted by Artw at 8:08 AM on August 18, 2017
posted by Artw at 8:08 AM on August 18, 2017
SNL has a long history of being fairly tone-deaf and screamingly misogynistic. No one should be looking for them to lay it all down in an awesome manner.
posted by agregoli at 8:10 AM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by agregoli at 8:10 AM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
Uh... the Fey bit was right on the money. She wasn't saying stay home Ansbach eat cake (at the end) she was saying, 'let them scream into the void.' That, without a reaction all their whining and yelling has no impact.
posted by From Bklyn at 8:17 AM on August 18, 2017
posted by From Bklyn at 8:17 AM on August 18, 2017
The wining I should there
Gah. "The wink is there".
posted by Artw at 8:20 AM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Gah. "The wink is there".
posted by Artw at 8:20 AM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
She wasn't saying stay home Ansbach eat cake (at the end) she was saying, 'let them scream into the void.' That, without a reaction all their whining and yelling has no impact.
And they will therefore go in search of people to give them the reaction they are looking for, much like how they stalked a synagogue the day of the rally and marched back and forth outside a service chanting "Blood and soil" just to provoke them.
"Letting them scream into the void" doesn't work. Ignoring bullies doesn't work.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:21 AM on August 18, 2017 [17 favorites]
And they will therefore go in search of people to give them the reaction they are looking for, much like how they stalked a synagogue the day of the rally and marched back and forth outside a service chanting "Blood and soil" just to provoke them.
"Letting them scream into the void" doesn't work. Ignoring bullies doesn't work.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:21 AM on August 18, 2017 [17 favorites]
"Letting them scream into the void" doesn't work. Ignoring bullies doesn't work.
The void is them.
posted by mikelieman at 8:25 AM on August 18, 2017
The void is them.
posted by mikelieman at 8:25 AM on August 18, 2017
From the EFF :
That being said - I'm totally OK with both ISIS and Neo-Nazi/KKK recruitment sites having difficulty finding homes. There's no free speech right to obscenity or threats.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 8:26 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
But we strongly believe that what GoDaddy, Google, and Cloudflare did here was dangerous. That’s because, even when the facts are the most vile, we must remain vigilant when platforms exercise these rights. Because Internet intermediaries, especially those with few competitors, control so much online speech, the consequences of their decisions have far-reaching impacts on speech around the world.The problem isn't that they cut off service. It's the "few competitors" part.
That being said - I'm totally OK with both ISIS and Neo-Nazi/KKK recruitment sites having difficulty finding homes. There's no free speech right to obscenity or threats.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 8:26 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
Ignoring bullies as they rally and reinforce each other's hatred, rather than confronting and breaking them, is literally what got us here.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:26 AM on August 18, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:26 AM on August 18, 2017 [29 favorites]
Look, I totally get that putting up those statues was intentional intimidation, and ok, symbolic violence. But I'm still not with you that taking them down is any kind of violence. At all.
I think we should just call it racist graffiti removal.
posted by srboisvert at 8:27 AM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
I think we should just call it racist graffiti removal.
posted by srboisvert at 8:27 AM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
Oh, and from the EFF's statement, there was this point:
Or why, when the handful of global payment processors unite to block certain websites (like Wikileaks) worldwide, we should be concerned.
Why should we be concerned with a website that is pretty much a Russian intelligence operation losing access to funding? The EFF needs to look at what they're saying.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:27 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
Or why, when the handful of global payment processors unite to block certain websites (like Wikileaks) worldwide, we should be concerned.
Why should we be concerned with a website that is pretty much a Russian intelligence operation losing access to funding? The EFF needs to look at what they're saying.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:27 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
Timothy B. Lee in Ars Technica, "Gab, the right-wing Twitter rival, just got its app banned by Google".
On Thursday, Gab said that Google had banned its Android app from the Google Play Store for violating Google's ban on hate speech.
Lee notes that the stated reasoning would seem to also apply to Twitter. It would be nice if more big players would take a stronger and consistent stance against being platforms to hate speech, and that it hadn't taken a death to even get them to do what they should've done long ago.
posted by papercrane at 8:29 AM on August 18, 2017 [19 favorites]
On Thursday, Gab said that Google had banned its Android app from the Google Play Store for violating Google's ban on hate speech.
Lee notes that the stated reasoning would seem to also apply to Twitter. It would be nice if more big players would take a stronger and consistent stance against being platforms to hate speech, and that it hadn't taken a death to even get them to do what they should've done long ago.
posted by papercrane at 8:29 AM on August 18, 2017 [19 favorites]
Umm, the new Der Spiegel follows the 'pulling no punches' cover theme this week.
posted by chris24 at 8:31 AM on August 18, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 8:31 AM on August 18, 2017 [22 favorites]
When your whole bit is a retreaded Cathy comic strip, I'm pretty sure you're not doing much for whatever movement you're pushing. Not the best use of a platform.
this isn't a very nice thing to say about Metafilter.
after all, every white person here knows to include a tee-hee smirk-smirk Nice White Lady reference along with our feeble cake jokes so it's not like we're, you know, Tina Fey or something. we're above her in so many ways.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:32 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
Oh my god Romney IT'S TOO LATE FFS
posted by agregoli at 8:32 AM on August 18, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by agregoli at 8:32 AM on August 18, 2017 [22 favorites]
Man, when you find yourself wishing the commander-in-chief had a moral compass more like that of Mitt Romney... where's the sheet cake
posted by Donald Trump Sex Nightmare at 8:35 AM on August 18, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by Donald Trump Sex Nightmare at 8:35 AM on August 18, 2017 [16 favorites]
Yeah, Romney's latest, while certainly strongly worded, still comes from the basic premise that Donald Trump's statements don't reflect who he really is -- that he could apologize and mean it. Even the people who were somehow inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt have to realize by now that this won't stop until we have another president.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:35 AM on August 18, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:35 AM on August 18, 2017 [29 favorites]
I'd say that services have a moral obligation to use discernment on a case-by-case basis for whether a general rule of "everyone should have access to service" need be granted to customers that want to promote hate and terror.
The practical reality is that some content is so damaging and destructive that it shouldn't be hosted. Yes, it opens a door for the argument about why a host can't say "I don't want to host gay customers" but the answer should not be "ISIS and the KKK should get to be hosted too".
posted by Autumnheart at 8:37 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
The practical reality is that some content is so damaging and destructive that it shouldn't be hosted. Yes, it opens a door for the argument about why a host can't say "I don't want to host gay customers" but the answer should not be "ISIS and the KKK should get to be hosted too".
posted by Autumnheart at 8:37 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Accordingly, the president must take remedial action in the extreme. He should address the American people, acknowledge that he was wrong, apologize.
I'm beginning to get a sense that this might be difficult for him.
posted by flabdablet at 8:37 AM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
I'm beginning to get a sense that this might be difficult for him.
posted by flabdablet at 8:37 AM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
Remember when Republican Presidential Nominee Mitt Romney crawled into Trump tower to kiss the ring?
You don't come back from that, ever.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:37 AM on August 18, 2017 [34 favorites]
You don't come back from that, ever.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:37 AM on August 18, 2017 [34 favorites]
My take away from the Fey critique is that SNL needs to bring in Samantha Bee as a writer?
I somehow doubt Samantha Bee will decide it's more important to prop up Tina Fey and keep her from (arguably) own-goaling herself than to stay on as the lead of her own amazing show. With her name on it, even.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:37 AM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
I somehow doubt Samantha Bee will decide it's more important to prop up Tina Fey and keep her from (arguably) own-goaling herself than to stay on as the lead of her own amazing show. With her name on it, even.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:37 AM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
Remember when Mitt Romney crawling into Trump tower to kiss the ring?
You don't come back from that, ever.
Fuck man, yeah he's awful. We also need him and every other Republican to start saying this shit. I despise him but I just posted this to Facebook saying everyone should read it because it might persuade some of my Republican friends. And if I just mock it and him, they'll disregard it. We are seriously at the point where the enemy of my enemy is fucking good enough. We can fight about the rest later.
posted by chris24 at 8:41 AM on August 18, 2017 [62 favorites]
You don't come back from that, ever.
Fuck man, yeah he's awful. We also need him and every other Republican to start saying this shit. I despise him but I just posted this to Facebook saying everyone should read it because it might persuade some of my Republican friends. And if I just mock it and him, they'll disregard it. We are seriously at the point where the enemy of my enemy is fucking good enough. We can fight about the rest later.
posted by chris24 at 8:41 AM on August 18, 2017 [62 favorites]
Umm, the new Der Spiegel follows the 'pulling no punches' cover theme this week.
"the true face of donald trump", daaaang
posted by murphy slaw at 8:42 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
"the true face of donald trump", daaaang
posted by murphy slaw at 8:42 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
re: romney
my takeaway is that it's not worth much as an indication of romney's character, but that a solidly middle-of-the-pack republican with a national profile feels safe making this statement is a very good sign of how the wind is blowing.
posted by murphy slaw at 8:46 AM on August 18, 2017 [33 favorites]
my takeaway is that it's not worth much as an indication of romney's character, but that a solidly middle-of-the-pack republican with a national profile feels safe making this statement is a very good sign of how the wind is blowing.
posted by murphy slaw at 8:46 AM on August 18, 2017 [33 favorites]
From Romney's statement: This is a defining moment for President Trump.
He already defined the moment and himself - and long ago. He defined it as the moment the President of the US sided with Nazis. There isn't any redefining or undefining possible there.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 8:47 AM on August 18, 2017 [10 favorites]
He already defined the moment and himself - and long ago. He defined it as the moment the President of the US sided with Nazis. There isn't any redefining or undefining possible there.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 8:47 AM on August 18, 2017 [10 favorites]
e: romney
my takeaway is that it's not worth much as an indication of romney's character, but that a solidly middle-of-the-pack republican with a national profile feels safe making this statement is a very good sign of how the wind is blowing.
Another takeaway is that it's not worth much as an indication of romney's character, but that a solidly middle-of-the-pack republican with a national profile feels the need to make this statement is a very bad sign of where we are.
posted by chris24 at 8:49 AM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
my takeaway is that it's not worth much as an indication of romney's character, but that a solidly middle-of-the-pack republican with a national profile feels safe making this statement is a very good sign of how the wind is blowing.
Another takeaway is that it's not worth much as an indication of romney's character, but that a solidly middle-of-the-pack republican with a national profile feels the need to make this statement is a very bad sign of where we are.
posted by chris24 at 8:49 AM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
Remember when Republican Presidential Nominee Mitt Romney crawled into Trump tower to kiss the ring?
Try the Mittballs. They're delicious!
posted by kirkaracha at 8:51 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
So this happened in a suburb near Dallas.
Three young men in a Jeep terrorize a Muslim family taking a carriage ride.
Cole is talking about an incident that occurred last Friday night. She had agreed to give a Muslim family a carriage ride through historic McKinney. The women were wearing hijabs, and they were listening to Iraqi music on their phones during the ride.
Cole says three young men in a Jeep had terrorized her, the Muslim family, and her horses.
"They swerved the jeep into my horses, and I literally had to pull them [horses] tight to stop," Cole said.
Cole said after each time, the jeep circled back. Shannon says four times they drove by, yelled and veered into her horses missing them by inches.
Cole said one time the jeep had accelerated and slammed on the brakes behind the carriage. The driver then honked the horn for 30 straight seconds
The fuckers then threw lit fireworks in the direction of the horses. The carriage owners says one of her horses won't come out of his stall now, and the Muslim family is too scared to talk to the press.
posted by emjaybee at 8:52 AM on August 18, 2017 [79 favorites]
Three young men in a Jeep terrorize a Muslim family taking a carriage ride.
Cole is talking about an incident that occurred last Friday night. She had agreed to give a Muslim family a carriage ride through historic McKinney. The women were wearing hijabs, and they were listening to Iraqi music on their phones during the ride.
Cole says three young men in a Jeep had terrorized her, the Muslim family, and her horses.
"They swerved the jeep into my horses, and I literally had to pull them [horses] tight to stop," Cole said.
Cole said after each time, the jeep circled back. Shannon says four times they drove by, yelled and veered into her horses missing them by inches.
Cole said one time the jeep had accelerated and slammed on the brakes behind the carriage. The driver then honked the horn for 30 straight seconds
The fuckers then threw lit fireworks in the direction of the horses. The carriage owners says one of her horses won't come out of his stall now, and the Muslim family is too scared to talk to the press.
posted by emjaybee at 8:52 AM on August 18, 2017 [79 favorites]
my takeaway is that it's not worth much as an indication of romney's character, but that a solidly middle-of-the-pack republican with a national profile feels safe making this statement is a very good sign of how the wind is blowing.
Another takeaway is that it's not worth much as an indication of romney's character, but that a solidly middle-of-the-pack republican with a national profile feels the need to make this statement is a very bad sign of where we are
It's basically "Oh fuck, we're fighting Nazis... But at least we think we might win!"
posted by chris24 at 8:53 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
Another takeaway is that it's not worth much as an indication of romney's character, but that a solidly middle-of-the-pack republican with a national profile feels the need to make this statement is a very bad sign of where we are
It's basically "Oh fuck, we're fighting Nazis... But at least we think we might win!"
posted by chris24 at 8:53 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yea, I'm really not inclined to extend any credit to Republican latecomers just now finding the courage to admit maybe Trump is bad, but he could still be good! He can still pivot! He gave us Gorsuch!
Call for a censure or impeachment. Co-sponsor the resolution. Nothing short of action is worth shit. It's too late for words by at least 8 months, and more like 2 years at the minimum. Zero credit without actual action.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:53 AM on August 18, 2017 [10 favorites]
Call for a censure or impeachment. Co-sponsor the resolution. Nothing short of action is worth shit. It's too late for words by at least 8 months, and more like 2 years at the minimum. Zero credit without actual action.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:53 AM on August 18, 2017 [10 favorites]
re: that Axios piece on Bannon - I'm skeptical Bannon is going anywhere for now, 1) because Trump gets his jollies from firing people when they least expect it (see leaving Priebus on the tarmac while other staffers vacate his car), 2) as alluded to in that piece, because of all that Mercer money that Trump is going to seriously need to keep his campaign rally fix going, which will disappear once Bannon gets the axe. Bannons real function in the WH is as the Mercer's mole, and he's still fulfilling that role.
posted by aiglet at 8:54 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by aiglet at 8:54 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
It matters that Romney spoke up. Nobody is going to forget the ring-kissing. Dude has been pretty damn quiet since that happened. He knows he fucked up. This is a sign that he realizes how important this moment is that even he has to speak up even after everyone saw his ass. Mitt Romney sitting this out does nobody any favors except maybe Trump and his pack of white supremacist goons.
I don't see how this is a bad thing. If he suddenly becomes a primary challenger or something and reasonable conservatives start rallying around him that's fine by me.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:54 AM on August 18, 2017 [24 favorites]
I don't see how this is a bad thing. If he suddenly becomes a primary challenger or something and reasonable conservatives start rallying around him that's fine by me.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:54 AM on August 18, 2017 [24 favorites]
The codes in his biscuit probably don't authenticate.
is the new “the elevator doesn't reach the penthouse”/“a few cans short of a six-pack”.
posted by acb at 8:55 AM on August 18, 2017 [13 favorites]
is the new “the elevator doesn't reach the penthouse”/“a few cans short of a six-pack”.
posted by acb at 8:55 AM on August 18, 2017 [13 favorites]
They are watching, our soldiers are watching, the world is watching. Mr. President, act now resign now for the good of the country. Thanks Mitt, FTFY.
posted by michswiss at 8:57 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by michswiss at 8:57 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
It got an alert that DJT is thinking about firing Mueller & We should all contact our reps ASAP. I drop in here to see if I should be worried & all you are talking about Tina Fey?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:57 AM on August 18, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:57 AM on August 18, 2017 [24 favorites]
Feels like a Romney 2020 trial balloon to me, "here's what I would do as President". And tbh after Trump, Romney might have a shot since the country's eyes may not adjust quickly enough to see how brightly Mitt's awful qualities still shine after being near blinded by the intense solar glare of Trump's horribleness. I hope that's not the case, but I don't put a ton of faith in the memory of the electorate.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:59 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 8:59 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
Mod note: A few comments removed, let's really drop the nth Kimmy Schmidt rehash and especially kicking it off with whatever analysis of Titus or whatever, how is this what I'm leaving a mod comment about
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:01 AM on August 18, 2017 [74 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:01 AM on August 18, 2017 [74 favorites]
Yea, I'm really not inclined to extend any credit to Republican latecomers
Don't know where the idea came from that Romney's a latecomer; he was opposed to Trump from the get-go and gave a scorching speech opposing him last summer.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 9:04 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
Don't know where the idea came from that Romney's a latecomer; he was opposed to Trump from the get-go and gave a scorching speech opposing him last summer.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 9:04 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
Fifteen people just en masse resigned from the Presidential Arts and Humanities Committee. SLTwitter
posted by Sophie1 at 9:04 AM on August 18, 2017 [76 favorites]
posted by Sophie1 at 9:04 AM on August 18, 2017 [76 favorites]
Fifteen people just en masse resigned from the Presidential Arts and Humanities Committee.
The first letter of every graf in their resignation letter spell RESIST. Which is a bit Scooby Doo, but I'll allow it.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:06 AM on August 18, 2017 [135 favorites]
The first letter of every graf in their resignation letter spell RESIST. Which is a bit Scooby Doo, but I'll allow it.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:06 AM on August 18, 2017 [135 favorites]
Fifteen people just en masse resigned from the Presidential Arts and Humanities Committee.
trump at today's cabinet meeting
posted by murphy slaw at 9:06 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
trump at today's cabinet meeting
posted by murphy slaw at 9:06 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
So this happened in a suburb near Dallas.
Three young men in a Jeep terrorize a Muslim family taking a carriage ride.
Fuck that is terrible. Don't get me started on how terrible the rich white suburbs of Dallas are. I used to do community development grant work in that area, and those folks are straight-up poison. It is absolutely no surprise their kids are awful too.
posted by FakeFreyja at 9:07 AM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
Three young men in a Jeep terrorize a Muslim family taking a carriage ride.
Fuck that is terrible. Don't get me started on how terrible the rich white suburbs of Dallas are. I used to do community development grant work in that area, and those folks are straight-up poison. It is absolutely no surprise their kids are awful too.
posted by FakeFreyja at 9:07 AM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
SLoG I'm not seeing the Mueller thing on my Twitter, do you have a link?
posted by emjaybee at 9:09 AM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by emjaybee at 9:09 AM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Basically, Bannon is betting that if forced to choose, the many covert racists in the Republican party will go overt racist rather than let the non-racists win.
posted by chris24 at 9:11 AM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by chris24 at 9:11 AM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Okay. I've watched Fey now, and I think it is reasonable to talk about it since it really does speak to where a lot of people are at.
The bit would be really great if she wasn't outright advocating the "ignore it and it will go away" approach. Like if she was saying, "If you CAN'T do more, handle it like this," because there are people who really can't engage at times for whatever reason, that would be fine. Her clapbacks are great. The talking into the cake is even funny--unless you read "haha women eat when they're upset" into it, which is a totally reasonable interpretation.
(And also it's really painful how much she needs Michael Che in the picture nodding at her black drag queen joke to help it along. She knows it. She goddamn knows she needs a black person to endorse that joke. That should have told her all she needed to know about whether or not she should do that joke.)
But she's explicitly saying "don't go" and "don't get hurt" and "ignore them." I don't see a wink or satire there, and I really wish I did. She is very serious about "don't go" at the end. "Ignore it and it will go away" is the most screaming example of white privilege I can think of.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:11 AM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
The bit would be really great if she wasn't outright advocating the "ignore it and it will go away" approach. Like if she was saying, "If you CAN'T do more, handle it like this," because there are people who really can't engage at times for whatever reason, that would be fine. Her clapbacks are great. The talking into the cake is even funny--unless you read "haha women eat when they're upset" into it, which is a totally reasonable interpretation.
(And also it's really painful how much she needs Michael Che in the picture nodding at her black drag queen joke to help it along. She knows it. She goddamn knows she needs a black person to endorse that joke. That should have told her all she needed to know about whether or not she should do that joke.)
But she's explicitly saying "don't go" and "don't get hurt" and "ignore them." I don't see a wink or satire there, and I really wish I did. She is very serious about "don't go" at the end. "Ignore it and it will go away" is the most screaming example of white privilege I can think of.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:11 AM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
Wow, I'm actually stunned that people are not seeing the bitter wink. When she's practically stabbing the cake with the fork, it's clear the act of actually eating cake is not what she is recommending as a solution to what she is feeling.
posted by chris24 at 9:13 AM on August 18, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 9:13 AM on August 18, 2017 [20 favorites]
> I don't see a wink or satire there
You really don't think Fey was playing a caricature of herself? Do you think she really sits at home screaming the things she's scared to say directly to the nazis into a sheetcake? Do people really take their activism cues from SNL bits?
posted by tonycpsu at 9:14 AM on August 18, 2017 [21 favorites]
You really don't think Fey was playing a caricature of herself? Do you think she really sits at home screaming the things she's scared to say directly to the nazis into a sheetcake? Do people really take their activism cues from SNL bits?
posted by tonycpsu at 9:14 AM on August 18, 2017 [21 favorites]
Fifteen people just en masse resigned from the Presidential Arts and Humanities Committee.
The first letter of every graf in their resignation letter spell RESIST. Which is a bit Scooby Doo, but I'll allow it.
That is amazing. The letter itself is strong, unequivocal, and clear. But for them to go above and beyond to put in that extra sauce, I'm not just allowing it, I am shouting "YOU'RE DOING AMAZING SWEETIE!" at my screen.
posted by like_neon at 9:16 AM on August 18, 2017 [41 favorites]
The first letter of every graf in their resignation letter spell RESIST. Which is a bit Scooby Doo, but I'll allow it.
That is amazing. The letter itself is strong, unequivocal, and clear. But for them to go above and beyond to put in that extra sauce, I'm not just allowing it, I am shouting "YOU'RE DOING AMAZING SWEETIE!" at my screen.
posted by like_neon at 9:16 AM on August 18, 2017 [41 favorites]
I've been in arguments with people who think you should just ignore Nazis and they'll go away for a week now. Whether or not real activists will listen to Tina Fey is irrelevant. This school of thought is real, people honestly advocate it, and Fey's bit isn't helping. She isn't making them look silly. She's giving them sympathy.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:17 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:17 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
Mod note: I apologize for not generalizing explicitly to the SNL/Fey thing in the previous note as well but yes please let us not keep digging in on this. Comedy is subjective, SNL is a comedy sketch show and not an activist staging ground, and we are gonna go fuckin' nuts trying to hang shit on a Weekend Update bit. Let's aim more for the actual shitheel in office maybe.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:18 AM on August 18, 2017 [70 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:18 AM on August 18, 2017 [70 favorites]
Don't know where the idea came from that Romney's a latecomer; he was opposed to Trump from the get-go and gave a scorching speech opposing him last summer.
After praising Trump's business acumen, and also having him on board as a campaign advisor in 2012.
So, not so much a latecomer as not believable ever.
posted by rc3spencer at 9:19 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
After praising Trump's business acumen, and also having him on board as a campaign advisor in 2012.
So, not so much a latecomer as not believable ever.
posted by rc3spencer at 9:19 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
Fifteen people just en masse resigned from the Presidential Arts and Humanities Committee.
That letter is fantastic, but it's too bad he won't read it. If only they could condense it to 140 characters.
posted by blurker at 9:21 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
That letter is fantastic, but it's too bad he won't read it. If only they could condense it to 140 characters.
posted by blurker at 9:21 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Digital Economy Board of Advisors also starting to dissolve.
posted by Sophie1 at 9:22 AM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Sophie1 at 9:22 AM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
Metafilter: Let's aim more for the actual shitheel in office maybe.
posted by Melismata at 9:25 AM on August 18, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 9:25 AM on August 18, 2017 [13 favorites]
angrycat: I'm bummed this morning in part because I went to a county democratic committee meeting and there were stairs and then a ramp that was like concave so I needed help getting down and it was too perilous to get up on my own so when the meeting went a half hour over and my ride was waiting I asked for help and my helper was freaked out because I have no handles on my chair because i don't like being pushed and avoid going to areas where I need to be pushed. I'd called earlier to confirm accessibility but only got a machine.
Ugh, I'm so sorry. We spent the first half of the year hunting down a new site for our monthly LD meetings, specifically because the county office was not accessible. It was (and still is) a disgrace that access is not a central priority for party meeting venues. There are certainly challenges, as unfortunately a lot of places that claim to be accessible fall short in important ways, but it's a battle that needs to be fought, also to send a clear message to constituents about what--and whom--we value.
posted by Superplin at 9:26 AM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
Ugh, I'm so sorry. We spent the first half of the year hunting down a new site for our monthly LD meetings, specifically because the county office was not accessible. It was (and still is) a disgrace that access is not a central priority for party meeting venues. There are certainly challenges, as unfortunately a lot of places that claim to be accessible fall short in important ways, but it's a battle that needs to be fought, also to send a clear message to constituents about what--and whom--we value.
posted by Superplin at 9:26 AM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
My take on the post-C'ville Trump floppers: anything that signals to the rest of country "this is not normal, this is not fine, this is not acceptable" is GREAT.
There's an increase in violence and terrorism from empowered white assholes, and this must stop. Yes, there's a ton that the GOP can do to address this increase, but I'll take strong condemnations as a start. But it's only a start, and they must do something to make their words matter. Oh, I know! End DOJ's bullshit threat of witholding funds for police departments in sanctuary cities and instead re-focus funding on countering racial violence from white power criminals!
That letter is fantastic, but it's too bad he won't read it. If only they could condense it to 140 characters.
Or made a video, or at least a photo. C'mon, y'all are artists and Trump is a visual learner, er, person.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:27 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
There's an increase in violence and terrorism from empowered white assholes, and this must stop. Yes, there's a ton that the GOP can do to address this increase, but I'll take strong condemnations as a start. But it's only a start, and they must do something to make their words matter. Oh, I know! End DOJ's bullshit threat of witholding funds for police departments in sanctuary cities and instead re-focus funding on countering racial violence from white power criminals!
That letter is fantastic, but it's too bad he won't read it. If only they could condense it to 140 characters.
Or made a video, or at least a photo. C'mon, y'all are artists and Trump is a visual learner, er, person.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:27 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
There are Rs I don't like and won't support, and then there is Trump, who is in reality a true Nazi and a white supremacist. However much cover the GOP gives the racism of these groups, they are and always have been far outside the mainstream -- Trump is inviting them inside as he actively pursues a racist agenda.
So, applause for Rs like Romney, Navarro, and Corker, not to mention all the CEOs who have stood up for what is right this past week. I know they are legitimate opponents, who care about this country from a different perspective than mine. What's missing, however, is overt demands that Trump resign or be removed. That's my criticism: these R folks need to demand more than that Trump apologize, be boycotted by fellow Rs, or change his ways. He needs to go, for the survival of our republic.
posted by bearwife at 9:29 AM on August 18, 2017 [14 favorites]
So, applause for Rs like Romney, Navarro, and Corker, not to mention all the CEOs who have stood up for what is right this past week. I know they are legitimate opponents, who care about this country from a different perspective than mine. What's missing, however, is overt demands that Trump resign or be removed. That's my criticism: these R folks need to demand more than that Trump apologize, be boycotted by fellow Rs, or change his ways. He needs to go, for the survival of our republic.
posted by bearwife at 9:29 AM on August 18, 2017 [14 favorites]
the Presidential Arts and Humanities Committee.
There is such a thing? What does it do?
posted by acb at 9:36 AM on August 18, 2017
There is such a thing? What does it do?
posted by acb at 9:36 AM on August 18, 2017
Lawrence O'Donnell said something last night to the effect of: the most politically sensible way for [congressional] Democrats to respond to Corker's statements is to privately thank him and indicate they'd have his back if he did more. Now, O'Donnell went on himself to mock Corker for not saying anything sooner, but I think the general idea of "thank and indicate we'd support them doing more" is also sensible advocacy advice as well.
posted by AndrewInDC at 9:36 AM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by AndrewInDC at 9:36 AM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
That VSB bit...oh man. Her own son! I try to imagine picking loyalty to any president over my kid and nope, does not compute. Much less Trump.
posted by emjaybee at 9:36 AM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 9:36 AM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
There is such a thing? What does it do?
1) not anymore
2) nothing
posted by murphy slaw at 9:38 AM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
1) not anymore
2) nothing
posted by murphy slaw at 9:38 AM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
So Drudge is quite adamant that Bannon is out: "BANNON OUT AT WHITE HOUSE."
Does Drudge still have it? Does he know things? Let's find out.
posted by zachlipton at 9:38 AM on August 18, 2017 [13 favorites]
Does Drudge still have it? Does he know things? Let's find out.
posted by zachlipton at 9:38 AM on August 18, 2017 [13 favorites]
A lot of mayors are hoping that there will be a bunch of Nazis in an empty field with no one to fight.
They may be delusionally hoping that, but I sure as shit hope they're planning for something more reality-based. And I sure as shit hope there are massive, overwhelming numbers doing peaceful resistance at every one of these hate rallies, because otherwise, it will be Nazis inciting violence as usual, racists and antifa brawling, and lots and lots and lots of Both-Sides-ism afterward.
(Of course, I note again that no matter what the resistance does, the both-sides thing is not going away. It could be 500 torchbearing Nazis and literally no counterprotestors, but if one random pedestrian walks by and spits on the sidewalk in disgust, they and the entire resistance will be labeled violent terrorist alt-lefties.)
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:39 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
They may be delusionally hoping that, but I sure as shit hope they're planning for something more reality-based. And I sure as shit hope there are massive, overwhelming numbers doing peaceful resistance at every one of these hate rallies, because otherwise, it will be Nazis inciting violence as usual, racists and antifa brawling, and lots and lots and lots of Both-Sides-ism afterward.
(Of course, I note again that no matter what the resistance does, the both-sides thing is not going away. It could be 500 torchbearing Nazis and literally no counterprotestors, but if one random pedestrian walks by and spits on the sidewalk in disgust, they and the entire resistance will be labeled violent terrorist alt-lefties.)
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:39 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
If Bannon's final act in government is having his own departure scooped by Drudge instead of Breitbart, that would be a glorious thing.
posted by zachlipton at 9:41 AM on August 18, 2017 [53 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 9:41 AM on August 18, 2017 [53 favorites]
MonkeyToes: John Fea: What Are the Court Evangelicals Saying Today?
CEOs Are Abandoning Donald Trump, But His Evangelical Advisors Are Staying Put (Aug. 16, 2017 round-up on Patheos, with some more citations to fill in those gaps, and it's not good)
The only one to speak out is one who left early on: James MacDonald.
On the other hand, Pastor Jack Graham retweeted a call for a statue of Charles Darwin to be torn down because Darwin was a “white supremacist” and “racist if ever there was one.”
posted by filthy light thief at 9:42 AM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
CEOs Are Abandoning Donald Trump, But His Evangelical Advisors Are Staying Put (Aug. 16, 2017 round-up on Patheos, with some more citations to fill in those gaps, and it's not good)
The only one to speak out is one who left early on: James MacDonald.
On the other hand, Pastor Jack Graham retweeted a call for a statue of Charles Darwin to be torn down because Darwin was a “white supremacist” and “racist if ever there was one.”
posted by filthy light thief at 9:42 AM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
Don't know where the idea came from that Romney's a latecomer; he was opposed to Trump from the get-go and gave a scorching speech opposing him last summer.
And then he had dinner with him after the election to discuss the Secretary of State position, at which Romney seemed quite happy to eat some crow. He's an opportunistic shitbag, and it's nice to have him on side for the moment, but expect him to jump ship when the wind shifts.
get me a blender and I'll mix a few more metaphors along with some margaritas.
posted by nubs at 9:42 AM on August 18, 2017 [18 favorites]
And then he had dinner with him after the election to discuss the Secretary of State position, at which Romney seemed quite happy to eat some crow. He's an opportunistic shitbag, and it's nice to have him on side for the moment, but expect him to jump ship when the wind shifts.
get me a blender and I'll mix a few more metaphors along with some margaritas.
posted by nubs at 9:42 AM on August 18, 2017 [18 favorites]
Keep the racism with Miller, and get rid of the only advocate for "economic populism", hope you're happy now, Ohio and Michigan.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:44 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:44 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
NYT, Haberman: Trump Tells Aides He Has Decided to Remove Stephen Bannon
President Trump has told senior aides that he has decided to remove Stephen K. Bannon, the embattled White House chief strategist who helped Mr. Trump win the 2016 election, according to two administration officials briefed on the discussion.posted by zachlipton at 9:45 AM on August 18, 2017 [23 favorites]
The president and senior White House officials were debating when and how to dismiss Mr. Bannon. The two administration officials cautioned that Mr. Trump is known to be averse to confrontation within his inner circle, and could decide to keep on Mr. Bannon for some time.
As of Friday morning, the two men were still discussing Mr. Bannon’s future, the officials said. A person close to Mr. Bannon insisted the parting of ways was his idea, and that he had submitted his resignation to the president on Aug. 7, to be announced at the start of this week, but it was delayed in the wake of the racial unrest in Charlottesville, Va.
Looks like the FAILING NEW YORK TIMES is confirming Bannon is out.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:45 AM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 9:45 AM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
According to Tapper: Source close to Bannon: he's prepared to continue fighting for POTUS's agenda inside or outside; doesn't know what decision has been made.
posted by yasaman at 9:45 AM on August 18, 2017
posted by yasaman at 9:45 AM on August 18, 2017
There is such a thing? What does it do?
Was.
Until today, they acted as a liaison and initiating force between government agencies and cultural institutions and artists for promotion, scholarships and sponsorships.
posted by zarq at 9:45 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
Was.
Until today, they acted as a liaison and initiating force between government agencies and cultural institutions and artists for promotion, scholarships and sponsorships.
The President’s Committee bridges the interests of federal agencies and the private sector, supports special projects that increase participation and excellence in the arts and humanities and helps incorporate these disciplines into White House objectives under our Honorary Chair First Lady Melania Trump.Their Turnaround: Arts program is a PCAH and Kennedy Center initiative active in many cities across the country, and works to increase arts educational programs in low-performing schools.
posted by zarq at 9:45 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
A lot of mayors are hoping that there will be a bunch of Nazis in an empty field with no one to fight.
This isn't good enough because then the cameras will just be all on THEM and make it seem like there are more of them than there are.
In my mind's eye, I envision having 10x as many peaceful counter-protesters playing music, chanting positive messages, just drowning out that shit and then all of a sudden the news is about some spontaneous street party (with tacos!) breaking out downtown and telling people to head down there with cake and holy crap is that Beyonce that just showed up? *cue All the Single Ladies* end scene
posted by like_neon at 9:45 AM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
This isn't good enough because then the cameras will just be all on THEM and make it seem like there are more of them than there are.
In my mind's eye, I envision having 10x as many peaceful counter-protesters playing music, chanting positive messages, just drowning out that shit and then all of a sudden the news is about some spontaneous street party (with tacos!) breaking out downtown and telling people to head down there with cake and holy crap is that Beyonce that just showed up? *cue All the Single Ladies* end scene
posted by like_neon at 9:45 AM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
Re Bannon's overdue departure: Not good enough. Trump himself needs to go.
posted by bearwife at 9:46 AM on August 18, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by bearwife at 9:46 AM on August 18, 2017 [10 favorites]
Source close to Bannon: he's prepared to continue fighting for POTUS's agenda inside or outside; doesn't know what decision has been made.
How typical. Comey finds out he's gone from CNN; Priebus fired by tweet while sitting on the tarmac; Bannon being approached for comment before he's even he's told.
For a guy who made his Tv star bones saying "you're fired" he really sucks at it.
posted by nubs at 9:48 AM on August 18, 2017 [23 favorites]
How typical. Comey finds out he's gone from CNN; Priebus fired by tweet while sitting on the tarmac; Bannon being approached for comment before he's even he's told.
For a guy who made his Tv star bones saying "you're fired" he really sucks at it.
posted by nubs at 9:48 AM on August 18, 2017 [23 favorites]
I don't believe that it was Nazi apologism. I don't think it was intentional. I don't really think there's any way to fix it at this point, beyond what the organizers have done. But I think it was really intensely symbolic, and it leaves me feeling even more alone and unsafe than I already was, and I was feeling pretty alone and unsafe before this mess. It is a reminder that Jews have no allies and can expect no solidarity. And that fucking sucks.
I can't tell you how to feel, and I don't want to. But that last sentence (well, second to last sentence) universalizes your feelings and makes a statement about all Jews, a statement which is contrary to my own feelings and experiences as a Jewish person. So I just want to say: I consider the organizers of the MR4J my allies, and I expect solidarity from them, and with their apology I feel I have received it.
Rather than making me feel isolated and unsafe, their response reminds me that there are people in the world who respond to the criticism of "this thing you've done is hurtful" not by doubling down but by trying to make amends. To me, that is profoundly encouraging.
posted by galaxy rise at 9:48 AM on August 18, 2017 [18 favorites]
I can't tell you how to feel, and I don't want to. But that last sentence (well, second to last sentence) universalizes your feelings and makes a statement about all Jews, a statement which is contrary to my own feelings and experiences as a Jewish person. So I just want to say: I consider the organizers of the MR4J my allies, and I expect solidarity from them, and with their apology I feel I have received it.
Rather than making me feel isolated and unsafe, their response reminds me that there are people in the world who respond to the criticism of "this thing you've done is hurtful" not by doubling down but by trying to make amends. To me, that is profoundly encouraging.
posted by galaxy rise at 9:48 AM on August 18, 2017 [18 favorites]
Perhaps Bannon has become the sin-eater for the white house?
posted by Artw at 9:48 AM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 9:48 AM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
That was the most passive-aggressive breakup I've ever seen, and I used Livejournal for a decade.
posted by Donald Trump Sex Nightmare at 9:48 AM on August 18, 2017 [78 favorites]
posted by Donald Trump Sex Nightmare at 9:48 AM on August 18, 2017 [78 favorites]
Romney Tells Trump to Apologize for Causing ‘Racists to Rejoice’
Has Trump ever apologized for anything? This seems like asking a pig to fly.
posted by komara at 9:49 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
Has Trump ever apologized for anything? This seems like asking a pig to fly.
posted by komara at 9:49 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
Can we still call it a fine-tuned machine when half of the original parts of the machine are gone and only half of those have been replaced?
posted by tonycpsu at 9:50 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 9:50 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Never in his entire awful life.
posted by Artw at 9:51 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:51 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
He's refining the mechanism toward an ever more perfect efficiency.
posted by contraption at 9:52 AM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by contraption at 9:52 AM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Can we still call it a fine-tuned machine when half of the original parts of the machine are gone and only half of those have been replaced?
it's the most finely-tuned ship of theseus you'll ever see
posted by murphy slaw at 9:53 AM on August 18, 2017 [13 favorites]
it's the most finely-tuned ship of theseus you'll ever see
posted by murphy slaw at 9:53 AM on August 18, 2017 [13 favorites]
Can we still call it a fine-tuned machine when half of the original parts of the machine are gone and only half of those have been replaced?
The Shit of Theseus.
posted by uncleozzy at 9:53 AM on August 18, 2017 [37 favorites]
The Shit of Theseus.
posted by uncleozzy at 9:53 AM on August 18, 2017 [37 favorites]
Source close to Bannon: he's prepared to continue fighting for POTUS's agenda inside or outside; doesn't know what decision has been made.
What I really expect is Bannon may depart for political expediency, but Trump will keep him as #1 on his speed dial. Even if he doesn't have an office in the White House I can't get my hopes up about him really going away.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:53 AM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
What I really expect is Bannon may depart for political expediency, but Trump will keep him as #1 on his speed dial. Even if he doesn't have an office in the White House I can't get my hopes up about him really going away.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:53 AM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
nubs: For a guy who made his Tv star bones saying "you're fired" he really sucks at it.
How Donald Trump Decides to Fire Someone (Olivia Nuzzi for New York Magazine, June 30, 2017)
posted by filthy light thief at 9:55 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
How Donald Trump Decides to Fire Someone (Olivia Nuzzi for New York Magazine, June 30, 2017)
Although Trump once tried and failed to trademark the words, “You’re fired!” — his catchphrase from The Apprentice — it seems that he doesn’t actually enjoy repealing and replacing the loyalists that surround him. Like so much with the president, it’s shtick designed to make him look tough. “At the end of the day, he’s a natural-born salesman and he likes people to like him,” a second senior administration official said. “He’s a conflict-avoider. He hates firing people. He knows he’s gotta fire every one of them — but he can’t bring himself to do it.”While "conflict-avoider" is clearly untrue, he likes to create conflict from a point of safety. I can see that direct conflict, person-to-person, makes him uncomfortable, with his stupid history of firing people from his administration.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:55 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Digital Economy Board of Advisors also starting to dissolve.
And he's lost the IEEE. Which is a bit like Spock telling Kirk to go fuck himself.
posted by Devonian at 9:55 AM on August 18, 2017 [10 favorites]
The Shit of Theseus.
Feceus, surely
posted by jason_steakums at 9:55 AM on August 18, 2017 [31 favorites]
Feceus, surely
posted by jason_steakums at 9:55 AM on August 18, 2017 [31 favorites]
Jon Rosenberg is happy that Bannon lasted just long enough to post a new comic featuring him.
posted by farlukar at 9:55 AM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by farlukar at 9:55 AM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
Lolz. Sara Carter, the administration's favorite reporter at Sinclair: "Steve Bannon just told me he resigned from the White House two weeks ago @POTUS #Bannon"
I mean, that's hilarious, but nice of her to confirm she talks directly to Bannon though.
posted by zachlipton at 9:55 AM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
I mean, that's hilarious, but nice of her to confirm she talks directly to Bannon though.
posted by zachlipton at 9:55 AM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
Has Trump ever apologized for anything?
Once. It sounded like a hostage video.
posted by scalefree at 9:55 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
Once. It sounded like a hostage video.
posted by scalefree at 9:55 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
in Haberman piece: "A person close to Mr. Bannon insisted the parting of ways was his idea, and that he had submitted his resignation to the president on Aug. 7, to be announced at the start of this week, but it was delayed in the wake of the racial unrest in Charlottesville, Va."
posted by rc3spencer at 9:55 AM on August 18, 2017
posted by rc3spencer at 9:55 AM on August 18, 2017
What I really expect is Bannon may depart for political expediency, but Trump will keep him as #1 on his speed dial.
That's probably the quid pro quo for Bannon not trashing Trump with Mueller et al.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:56 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
That's probably the quid pro quo for Bannon not trashing Trump with Mueller et al.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:56 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
While "conflict-avoider" is clearly untrue, he likes to create conflict from a point of safety. I can see that direct conflict, person-to-person, makes him uncomfortable, with his stupid history of firing people from his administration.
he likes to shake the jar full of beetles as long as he's not in the jar
posted by murphy slaw at 9:58 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
he likes to shake the jar full of beetles as long as he's not in the jar
posted by murphy slaw at 9:58 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
The history of the Trump Administration is also the history of the Calamity Bannon, a primal evil that has endured over the ages.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:58 AM on August 18, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:58 AM on August 18, 2017 [13 favorites]
Wasn't it Spicey who said he had already resigned the day before when the story broke of him getting axed? Is the next person voted off the Feceus going to say they quit before Trump was inaugurated?
posted by tonycpsu at 9:59 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 9:59 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
"Has Trump ever apologized for anything?"
Once. It sounded like a hostage video."
Oh wow, I had completely forgotten about that. The span from election until now just feels like such a never-ending flood of shit that I simply can't keep track. The other day I saw a tweet that said "Admit it: you've already forgotten that not even 3 weeks ago, Trump urged police to crack suspects' heads on hoods of squad cars" and I had to retweet it because it was true.
except it wasn't 'the other day' but 'yesterday' and that's how fast this shitriver is flowing. I can't even keep track of my own twitter now.
posted by komara at 10:00 AM on August 18, 2017 [14 favorites]
Once. It sounded like a hostage video."
Oh wow, I had completely forgotten about that. The span from election until now just feels like such a never-ending flood of shit that I simply can't keep track. The other day I saw a tweet that said "Admit it: you've already forgotten that not even 3 weeks ago, Trump urged police to crack suspects' heads on hoods of squad cars" and I had to retweet it because it was true.
except it wasn't 'the other day' but 'yesterday' and that's how fast this shitriver is flowing. I can't even keep track of my own twitter now.
posted by komara at 10:00 AM on August 18, 2017 [14 favorites]
So... which General do they bring in to replace Bannon?
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:01 AM on August 18, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:01 AM on August 18, 2017 [18 favorites]
Sorry but "Trump tells aides" a thing is not enough for me to believe it until I see it in action and hear it from President Trump himself or one of his many Abyssal Surrogates.
posted by Tevin at 10:01 AM on August 18, 2017
posted by Tevin at 10:01 AM on August 18, 2017
The first letter of every graf in their resignation letter spell RESIST. Which is a bit Scooby Doo, but I'll allow it.
My dad used to do that with the briefs he'd file in class actions — spell out RAPACIOUS JACKALS with the first letters of defendants' names, and so on. Went on for years, too, until a judge just happened to toss a legal pad on top of one of said briefs *just so*. Boy did he *ever* give my dad a talking-to.
Anyways, bless these folks for keeping the spirit alive. How did you happen to pick up on it? Preternatural pattern-recognition skills?
posted by adamgreenfield at 10:02 AM on August 18, 2017 [52 favorites]
My dad used to do that with the briefs he'd file in class actions — spell out RAPACIOUS JACKALS with the first letters of defendants' names, and so on. Went on for years, too, until a judge just happened to toss a legal pad on top of one of said briefs *just so*. Boy did he *ever* give my dad a talking-to.
Anyways, bless these folks for keeping the spirit alive. How did you happen to pick up on it? Preternatural pattern-recognition skills?
posted by adamgreenfield at 10:02 AM on August 18, 2017 [52 favorites]
Still holding out for Gary Busey
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:02 AM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:02 AM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
BANNON: I don't even really work here!
TRUMP: That's what makes this so difficult.
posted by schoolgirl report at 10:04 AM on August 18, 2017 [38 favorites]
TRUMP: That's what makes this so difficult.
posted by schoolgirl report at 10:04 AM on August 18, 2017 [38 favorites]
Meanwhile, Durham's streets are packed again with hundreds of peaceful protestors to a rumored KKK march. It doesn't appear the KKK materialized.
posted by yoga at 10:05 AM on August 18, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by yoga at 10:05 AM on August 18, 2017 [24 favorites]
Nubs "opportunistic shitbag" that is more adept description of Romney, than metaphor. I will never see him any other way in the future, and it will help me understand the nausea he evokes.
posted by Oyéah at 10:06 AM on August 18, 2017
posted by Oyéah at 10:06 AM on August 18, 2017
It was Preibus who "resigned the night before" that game of advisors playing musical SUVs on the Andrews AFB tarmac.
posted by cmfletcher at 10:06 AM on August 18, 2017
posted by cmfletcher at 10:06 AM on August 18, 2017
How did you happen to pick up on it?
Facebook lol
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:08 AM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Facebook lol
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:08 AM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
So... which General do they bring in to replace Bannon?
Fingers crossed for General Chaos - I mean, it looks like he works there already, why not make it official?
posted by nubs at 10:09 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Fingers crossed for General Chaos - I mean, it looks like he works there already, why not make it official?
posted by nubs at 10:09 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Hard to believe that Trump is truly casting Bannon aside and possibly disrupting the flow of all that sweet, sweet Mercer family cash. Guessing it's just for show and the reassuring phone calls to the Renaissance fund HQ have already been made.
(Background: long piece by the outstanding Jane Meyer in the New Yorker; or quicker take interview with Mayer on NPR's Fresh Air.)
posted by martin q blank at 10:09 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
(Background: long piece by the outstanding Jane Meyer in the New Yorker; or quicker take interview with Mayer on NPR's Fresh Air.)
posted by martin q blank at 10:09 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
From Jake Sherman at Politico: coming up in Playbook PM — another senior W.H. aide on his way out — in addition to bannon….
PLACE YOUR BETS, MEFITES. I know I'm hoping for Gorka or Miller, but I fear I fly too close to the sun there.
posted by yasaman at 10:10 AM on August 18, 2017 [20 favorites]
PLACE YOUR BETS, MEFITES. I know I'm hoping for Gorka or Miller, but I fear I fly too close to the sun there.
posted by yasaman at 10:10 AM on August 18, 2017 [20 favorites]
...Darwin was a “white supremacist” and “racist if ever there was one."
That is actually true. I won't copy the quotes here because they're somewhat disturbing, but you can find remarks by him on his wikiquote page which draw normative comparisons between races, and put caucasians at the top of the heap.
He was virulently opposed to slavery, though, so he had roughly the same mentality towards race that Lincoln did. If we should have statues for Lincoln, we probably should for Darwin, too.
posted by Coventry at 10:11 AM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
That is actually true. I won't copy the quotes here because they're somewhat disturbing, but you can find remarks by him on his wikiquote page which draw normative comparisons between races, and put caucasians at the top of the heap.
He was virulently opposed to slavery, though, so he had roughly the same mentality towards race that Lincoln did. If we should have statues for Lincoln, we probably should for Darwin, too.
posted by Coventry at 10:11 AM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
PLACE YOUR BETS, MEFITES.
I'm putting a whole cake on KellyAnne Conway.
posted by Sophie1 at 10:11 AM on August 18, 2017 [10 favorites]
I'm putting a whole cake on KellyAnne Conway.
posted by Sophie1 at 10:11 AM on August 18, 2017 [10 favorites]
BOO, never mind, it's George Sifakis, director of office of public liaison.
posted by yasaman at 10:12 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by yasaman at 10:12 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
So... which General do they bring in to replace Bannon?
Fingers crossed for General Chaos - I mean, it looks like he works there already, why not make it official?
General Disarray is also in the running.
posted by darkstar at 10:12 AM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
Fingers crossed for General Chaos - I mean, it looks like he works there already, why not make it official?
General Disarray is also in the running.
posted by darkstar at 10:12 AM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
I'm saying Cohen for the next one out, but I'm kinda hoping for Kelly.
posted by OmieWise at 10:13 AM on August 18, 2017
posted by OmieWise at 10:13 AM on August 18, 2017
I'll place at least a bowl of ice cream on Gorka.
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:13 AM on August 18, 2017
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:13 AM on August 18, 2017
Obviously Bannon needed to go but really, what was the point of him staying. He got the president to practically endorse neo-nazis. Mission accomplished. Now to make money off the back of that elsewhere.
posted by like_neon at 10:14 AM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by like_neon at 10:14 AM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
Both would be of their own volition, unlike Bannon.
posted by OmieWise at 10:14 AM on August 18, 2017
posted by OmieWise at 10:14 AM on August 18, 2017
I'm saying Cohen for the next one out, but I'm kinda hoping for Kelly.
I'm wondering if Bannon's departure is, at least in part, Kelly's doing.
posted by Fritzle at 10:15 AM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm wondering if Bannon's departure is, at least in part, Kelly's doing.
posted by Fritzle at 10:15 AM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
The first letter of every graf in their resignation letter spell RESIST. Which is a bit Scooby Doo, but I'll allow it.
C'mon, these are English majors (my people) and similar; it comes with the territory. This letter should be great recruiting material:
Undecided Student: What can you do with an English major?
Me: Tell Trump to go fuck himself.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:16 AM on August 18, 2017 [38 favorites]
C'mon, these are English majors (my people) and similar; it comes with the territory. This letter should be great recruiting material:
Undecided Student: What can you do with an English major?
Me: Tell Trump to go fuck himself.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:16 AM on August 18, 2017 [38 favorites]
WH statement. Last day today.
For a guy who built a whole brand on You're Fired (tm), Trump sure will never ever say those words.
posted by zachlipton at 10:16 AM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
For a guy who built a whole brand on You're Fired (tm), Trump sure will never ever say those words.
posted by zachlipton at 10:16 AM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
I'm wondering if Bannon's departure is, at least in part, Kelly's doing.
I can't imagine Kelly had nothing to do with it, even if it wasn't primarily his call. I mean, can you imagine having to be Chief of Staff to Trump WHILE dodging Bannon's acidic salivary ejections?
posted by darkstar at 10:17 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
I can't imagine Kelly had nothing to do with it, even if it wasn't primarily his call. I mean, can you imagine having to be Chief of Staff to Trump WHILE dodging Bannon's acidic salivary ejections?
posted by darkstar at 10:17 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Joy Reid says she has a source saying it's Kelly's doing, with Javanka's support, and that Kelly's not done yet.
posted by yasaman at 10:19 AM on August 18, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by yasaman at 10:19 AM on August 18, 2017 [13 favorites]
The White House statement sure seems to be putting Kelly in the seat of blame for Brannon's leaving.
posted by Room 101 at 10:19 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Room 101 at 10:19 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm wondering if Bannon's departure is, at least in part, Kelly's doing.
I'm guessing it's McMaster and all the other natsec folks VIA Kelly. This has been on McMaster's wish list from the get-go.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:19 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm guessing it's McMaster and all the other natsec folks VIA Kelly. This has been on McMaster's wish list from the get-go.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:19 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
“At the end of the day, [Donald Trump is] a natural-born salesman and he likes people to like him”
whoops!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:20 AM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
whoops!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:20 AM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
yasaman: BOO, never mind, it's George Sifakis, director of office of public liaison.
Who? Oh of course, the founder of information management firm Ideagen Pfc. (Oh, and back in March, 2017, the White House also announced that Andrew Giuliani, the son of former New York mayor and Trump surrogate Rudy Giuliani, also would be working in the Office of Public Liaison as an associate director - because who can you trust except the kids of your political supporters?)
posted by filthy light thief at 10:20 AM on August 18, 2017
Who? Oh of course, the founder of information management firm Ideagen Pfc. (Oh, and back in March, 2017, the White House also announced that Andrew Giuliani, the son of former New York mayor and Trump surrogate Rudy Giuliani, also would be working in the Office of Public Liaison as an associate director - because who can you trust except the kids of your political supporters?)
posted by filthy light thief at 10:20 AM on August 18, 2017
I think it's probably pretty hard to voluntarily leave a job at that level at the White House. You see this from Senators and Congressional Reps all the time. Power is more alluring than money.
posted by OmieWise at 10:20 AM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by OmieWise at 10:20 AM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Has Kelly already hired the person who will fire him? Or is that next on his to-do list after this round of layoffs?
posted by tonycpsu at 10:21 AM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 10:21 AM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
So who's left? Gorka, Miller, Conway, Huckabee Sanders?
MAY THE ODDS BE EVER IN YOUR FAVOR ASSHOLES
posted by darkstar at 10:21 AM on August 18, 2017 [21 favorites]
MAY THE ODDS BE EVER IN YOUR FAVOR ASSHOLES
posted by darkstar at 10:21 AM on August 18, 2017 [21 favorites]
Damnit, I just finished reading Devil's Bargain last week, and now the knowledge is 90% obsolete.
posted by Coventry at 10:21 AM on August 18, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by Coventry at 10:21 AM on August 18, 2017 [25 favorites]
Kelly can clean house all he wants, Trump will keep being Trump
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:22 AM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:22 AM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
They better clean house in there. I would settle for shooting Miller and Gorka into the sun.
posted by lydhre at 10:22 AM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 10:22 AM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
I think it's probably pretty hard to voluntarily leave a job at that level at the White House. You see this from Senators and Congressional Reps all the time. Power is more alluring than money.
At least until there are hordes of constituents chasing you down the street howling with rage and calling you a Nazi enabler everywhere you go. Which is what I sincerely hope happens to the GOP Congress when it rolls back into town from the recess.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:23 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
At least until there are hordes of constituents chasing you down the street howling with rage and calling you a Nazi enabler everywhere you go. Which is what I sincerely hope happens to the GOP Congress when it rolls back into town from the recess.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:23 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
as loathsome as he is, bannon had to be one of the last people in the white house unafraid to tell trump to shut the fuck up.
posted by murphy slaw at 10:23 AM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by murphy slaw at 10:23 AM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
@gabrielsherman: "Bannon friend says Breitbart ramping up for war against Trump. "It's now a Democrat White House," source says."
Oh no, that would be terrible.
posted by Artw at 10:23 AM on August 18, 2017 [67 favorites]
Oh no, that would be terrible.
posted by Artw at 10:23 AM on August 18, 2017 [67 favorites]
@gabrielsherman: "Bannon friend says Breitbart ramping up for war against Trump. "It's now a Democrat White House," source says."
*popcornification intensifies*
posted by darkstar at 10:23 AM on August 18, 2017 [31 favorites]
*popcornification intensifies*
posted by darkstar at 10:23 AM on August 18, 2017 [31 favorites]
At this point, even popcorn reaction GIFs are going for $5 minimum.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:24 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 10:24 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
"It's now a Democrat White House,"
what
posted by defenestration at 10:24 AM on August 18, 2017 [28 favorites]
what
posted by defenestration at 10:24 AM on August 18, 2017 [28 favorites]
(In town, of course, they're $20 with surge pricing.)
posted by tonycpsu at 10:25 AM on August 18, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 10:25 AM on August 18, 2017 [13 favorites]
@gabrielsherman: "Bannon friend says Breitbart ramping up for war against Trump. "It's now a Democrat White House," source says."
That's a damn shame.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:26 AM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
That's a damn shame.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:26 AM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
When reading that comment about Breitbart planning to wage war on Trump, I literally did the "steeple fingers of evil contemplation" and said "Good. Good." at my computer monitor.
posted by darkstar at 10:27 AM on August 18, 2017 [50 favorites]
posted by darkstar at 10:27 AM on August 18, 2017 [50 favorites]
"It's now a Democrat White House."- Boris Badenov
posted by Oyéah at 10:27 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 10:27 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
PATRIOTHOLE: Godspeed, Sir: Steve Bannon Is Bravely Walking Into The Desert To Find A Gun He Saw In A Dream
(PATRIOTHOLE is a satirical news source and this is an old article)
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:27 AM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
(PATRIOTHOLE is a satirical news source and this is an old article)
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:27 AM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
This one was so predictable that Vox had a voxsplainer for it cued up already. They've probably had an intern hovering over the "post" button for weeks waiting for the inevitable Drudge headline.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:28 AM on August 18, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 10:28 AM on August 18, 2017 [10 favorites]
"It's now a Democrat White House,"
what
Breitbart maintains that everyone in the WH to the left of Bannon and Miller is pretty much a socialist.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:28 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
what
Breitbart maintains that everyone in the WH to the left of Bannon and Miller is pretty much a socialist.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:28 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Breitbart turning on Trump would also be actual confirmation of Bannon being chucked out and not just hanging out casually in the vague cloud of nazis that hovers around the White House.
posted by Artw at 10:28 AM on August 18, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:28 AM on August 18, 2017 [10 favorites]
Office Bro said that he was already planning on mixing himself a drink when he got home and sitting down to read the comments at Breitbart (he said he regularly does that after events such as this for the schaudenfreude). I just told him to either make it a double or add popcorn.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:28 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:28 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
Anyone want to take bets on how low Trumps approval rating can get if Brietbart goes all in on attacking him?
posted by C'est la D.C. at 10:29 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by C'est la D.C. at 10:29 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
@gabrielsherman: "Bannon friend says Breitbart ramping up for war against Trump. "It's now a Democrat White House," source says."
I guess we're about to find out what would've happened if J. Edgar Hoover had been outside the tent pissing in.
posted by chris24 at 10:30 AM on August 18, 2017 [46 favorites]
I guess we're about to find out what would've happened if J. Edgar Hoover had been outside the tent pissing in.
posted by chris24 at 10:30 AM on August 18, 2017 [46 favorites]
So this is how they start the 'he was never republican' in the first place campaign?
posted by gofargogo at 10:31 AM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by gofargogo at 10:31 AM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
I'd say "Last person leaving the Trump WH please turn the lights out," but I'm betting they still don't know where the light switches are.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:31 AM on August 18, 2017 [77 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:31 AM on August 18, 2017 [77 favorites]
The pure weirdness of the Trump Era would be set in stone if Breitbart turns against him BEFORE Fox News, considering that Murdoch and his sons never liked him...
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:33 AM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:33 AM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
"You have to fire him or you'll look like a Nazi."
"I am a Nazi."
"But you can't *look* like a Nazi."
posted by chris24 at 10:34 AM on August 18, 2017 [25 favorites]
"I am a Nazi."
"But you can't *look* like a Nazi."
posted by chris24 at 10:34 AM on August 18, 2017 [25 favorites]
Office Bro said that he was already planning on mixing himself a drink when he got home and sitting down to read the comments at Breitbart (he said he regularly does that after events such as this for the schaudenfreude). I just told him to either make it a double or add popcorn
I just did this. The comments are rolling in three or four at a time.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:34 AM on August 18, 2017
I just did this. The comments are rolling in three or four at a time.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:34 AM on August 18, 2017
This is the beginning of the no true conservative phase.
posted by cmfletcher at 10:35 AM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by cmfletcher at 10:35 AM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
"It's now a Democrat White House,"
what
I think it means they still consider Jared & Ivanka to be cryptodemocrats
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:36 AM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
what
I think it means they still consider Jared & Ivanka to be cryptodemocrats
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:36 AM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
Which makes me glad we're already well into the Everyone Has Internet phase.
posted by Rykey at 10:37 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Rykey at 10:37 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
I wonder what was left to do on Bannon's whiteboard.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:38 AM on August 18, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:38 AM on August 18, 2017 [19 favorites]
"You have to fire him or you'll look like a Nazi."
"I am a Nazi."
"But you can't *look* like a Nazi."
Trump: *takes off white polo and khakis*
(Sorry for the image; please accept this complimentary brain bleach)
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:38 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
"I am a Nazi."
"But you can't *look* like a Nazi."
Trump: *takes off white polo and khakis*
(Sorry for the image; please accept this complimentary brain bleach)
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:38 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
And the markets weigh in. Bannon's White House exit lifts U.S. stocks; dollar off lows.
posted by scalefree at 10:39 AM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 10:39 AM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
Meanwhile, seven charities have dropped Mar-a-Lago this week, Susan G. Komen is the latest.
posted by yasaman at 10:39 AM on August 18, 2017 [45 favorites]
posted by yasaman at 10:39 AM on August 18, 2017 [45 favorites]
If it's true that the final straw for Trump was being contradicted in public on North Korea, then he's managed to sack Bannon for possibly the only political opinion I share with that repulsive hack.
posted by Busy Old Fool at 10:40 AM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Busy Old Fool at 10:40 AM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
More and more, the Cheeto stands alone.
posted by emjaybee at 10:40 AM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 10:40 AM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
Imagine being so unpopular that the stock market has a positive reaction on hearing that you were fired.
posted by scalefree at 10:41 AM on August 18, 2017 [59 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 10:41 AM on August 18, 2017 [59 favorites]
Updated graveyard
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:41 AM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:41 AM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
Fun thought experiment with the "Bannon will be on speed dial" theory. What are the odds that he'd be able to resist discussing classified matters?
posted by MattWPBS at 10:41 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by MattWPBS at 10:41 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
Can we have a "How Long Until Jared Bails" pool?
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:43 AM on August 18, 2017
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:43 AM on August 18, 2017
> And the markets weigh in. Bannon's White House exit lifts U.S. stocks; dollar off lows.
Trump Dumps Lumpy Rump. Stocks Jump, End Slump.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:43 AM on August 18, 2017 [44 favorites]
Trump Dumps Lumpy Rump. Stocks Jump, End Slump.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:43 AM on August 18, 2017 [44 favorites]
So... which General do they bring in to replace Bannon?
Rommel is an example of somebody who's done an amazing job and is being recognized by Geraldo Rivera more and more.
posted by cortex at 10:43 AM on August 18, 2017 [64 favorites]
Rommel is an example of somebody who's done an amazing job and is being recognized by Geraldo Rivera more and more.
posted by cortex at 10:43 AM on August 18, 2017 [64 favorites]
steve is no longer considered official bannon, but to donald he will always be head-bannon
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:43 AM on August 18, 2017 [35 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:43 AM on August 18, 2017 [35 favorites]
What can you do with an English major?
EAR-LY IN THE MORNING
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:44 AM on August 18, 2017 [90 favorites]
EAR-LY IN THE MORNING
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:44 AM on August 18, 2017 [90 favorites]
Didn't see it mentioned, but Pelosi has called for censure.
The President's repulsive defense of white supremacists demands that Congress act to defend our American values.posted by chris24 at 10:46 AM on August 18, 2017 [49 favorites]
Today, Members led by Reps. Jerry Nadler, Bonnie Watson Coleman and Pramila Jayapal have filed the first censure resolution against the President. Every day, the President gives us further evidence of why such a censure is necessary. Indeed, with each passing day, it becomes clearer that the Republican Congress must declare whether it stands for our sacred American values or with the President who embraces white nationalism.
Democrats will use every avenue to challenge the repulsiveness of President Trump's words and actions.
Probably easier to do an immunity deal if you don't have to run it by your boss first.
posted by Capt. Renault at 10:46 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Capt. Renault at 10:46 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
Susan G. Komen is the latest.
But they're the shittiest one! Beneath that layer it's all shitty religious charities for curing gayness and such.
posted by Artw at 10:47 AM on August 18, 2017 [10 favorites]
But they're the shittiest one! Beneath that layer it's all shitty religious charities for curing gayness and such.
posted by Artw at 10:47 AM on August 18, 2017 [10 favorites]
EAR-LY IN THE MORNING
This is where I went with that, and I blame you.
An all out war between Breitbart and Trump is one of the SUREST ways that Trump's public opinion gets low enough that the right considers dumping him.
posted by Twain Device at 10:47 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
Wouldn't this be a good point at which to make a new thread? This one is becoming onerous for my phone.
posted by orrnyereg at 10:48 AM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by orrnyereg at 10:48 AM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
Sorry guys, I signed up for one of those resist text alerts that is supposed to notify you if Trump fires Mueller. I was on my way out the door when I got a text saying that Trump was thinking about firing Mueller and we should all contact our reps. I'm looking around and all I see is people talking about Bannon. So who knows? I figure Trump is more or less thinking about firing Mueller all the time.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:48 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:48 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
Wait is it just this easy? Every time somebody gets more airtime and called the "mastermind" behind Trump he fires them? Is that it? If it's that simple let's get this machine rolling folks. Bait all the advisors to preen about how They are the only ones pulling the strings (look at these people, they won't be able to help but brag).
posted by like_neon at 10:49 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by like_neon at 10:49 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
Charlie Pierce: Why I'm Not Popping Corks Over Steve Bannon's Exit
While this is all entertaining as hell, and it is, and while it's even more entertaining to speculate what vengeance Bannon and his army of angry gnomes could wreak on this presidency*, I am not going to be turning handsprings along the Charles over this development. First, it's eight months overdue and both Stephen Miller and the ridiculous Dr. Sebastian Gorka, Ph.D. are still there. Second, I decline at the moment to believe that Bannon will be blocked entirely on the president*'s cell phone. And third, given that this is a president* who would require his paper boy to sign a non-disclosure agreement, I think it's reasonable to speculate that Bannon's silence will be handsomely remunerated. But there's one more general reason that I am not popping corks over this.posted by zombieflanders at 10:49 AM on August 18, 2017 [37 favorites]
Whatever else he was, Bannon was one of the few people in that operation who still at least was making mouth noises about economic populism after inauguration day. I have to think that the various corporate sublets in the Republican congressional leadership—Paul Ryan, chief among them—are looking at Bannon's departure as an opportunity to lead a president* who knows nothing about anything right down the trail of corporate oligarchy. I'm glad he's gone, but there's still enough left to concern us all.
It's gonna be the biggest Presidential implosion, the best, really, really tremendous, believe me.
posted by darkstar at 10:49 AM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by darkstar at 10:49 AM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
Wouldn't this be a good point at which to make a new thread?
The thread just reloaded on me and I got this little glimpse into the past:
i'm so exhausted, ya'll.
posted by odinsdream at 3:48 PM on August 11 [80 favorites +] [!]
One week and a lifetime ago...
posted by saturday_morning at 10:50 AM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
The thread just reloaded on me and I got this little glimpse into the past:
i'm so exhausted, ya'll.
posted by odinsdream at 3:48 PM on August 11 [80 favorites +] [!]
One week and a lifetime ago...
posted by saturday_morning at 10:50 AM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
Artw: Breitbart turning on Trump would also be actual confirmation of Bannon being chucked out and not just hanging out casually in the vague cloud of nazis that hovers around the White House.
Ya know, Trump is still the president, right? Sure, a particular Nazi cloud might have been blown out, but there's still that burning cross in the oval office.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:53 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
Ya know, Trump is still the president, right? Sure, a particular Nazi cloud might have been blown out, but there's still that burning cross in the oval office.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:53 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm looking forward to the Friday when the press secretary says "White House Chief of Staff John Kelly and Donald Trump have mutually agreed today would be Donald's last day."
posted by double bubble at 10:55 AM on August 18, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by double bubble at 10:55 AM on August 18, 2017 [23 favorites]
Whether he meant it or not (Ron Howard: "he didn't"), sobering to consider that the only person in the White House who was willing to use words like "a bunch of clowns" to describe white nationalists this week is the one who gets pushed out the door.
posted by saturday_morning at 10:57 AM on August 18, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by saturday_morning at 10:57 AM on August 18, 2017 [21 favorites]
I see a lot of doom and gloom about Bannon being fired not "helping" the cause of Trump impeachment. What the fuck ever, man. One fewer Nazi in the White House is always a reason to celebrate.
posted by lydhre at 10:58 AM on August 18, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 10:58 AM on August 18, 2017 [29 favorites]
so we've had a Watergate-like scandal, the threat of nuclear war hanging over us, conflict with North Korea, a return to an adversarial relationship with Russia, and the Nazis are back
what is the playbook for when a generation's zeitgeist takes over the fabric of reality itself? do we break the curse by playing "We Didn't Start The Fire" backwards or something?
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:58 AM on August 18, 2017 [43 favorites]
what is the playbook for when a generation's zeitgeist takes over the fabric of reality itself? do we break the curse by playing "We Didn't Start The Fire" backwards or something?
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:58 AM on August 18, 2017 [43 favorites]
My insane mother-in-law posted a "Pray for Trump" post on FB this morning and I got a good laugh out of it. I'm now sooooo tempted to respond thanking her for her prayers because they worked in getting Bannon shit canned.
posted by photoslob at 10:58 AM on August 18, 2017 [31 favorites]
posted by photoslob at 10:58 AM on August 18, 2017 [31 favorites]
Yes I am aware that Donald Trump is a Nazi and will continue to be so even if the number of Nazis surrounding him is slightly reduced.
posted by Artw at 10:59 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:59 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
Whatever else he was, Bannon was one of the few people in that operation who still at least was making mouth noises about economic populism after inauguration day.
This is one of those things where Pierce needs to shut up. LGM had an excellent piece about how one of the things that helped sell the Lost Cause to the left was portraying the South as the victim of Northern capitalism. Bannon isn't your ally, even if he's saying some things you might agree with.
posted by NoxAeternum at 11:00 AM on August 18, 2017 [20 favorites]
This is one of those things where Pierce needs to shut up. LGM had an excellent piece about how one of the things that helped sell the Lost Cause to the left was portraying the South as the victim of Northern capitalism. Bannon isn't your ally, even if he's saying some things you might agree with.
posted by NoxAeternum at 11:00 AM on August 18, 2017 [20 favorites]
Trump is worse if he's capable of making those noises. Socialism for white people was a big part of his rust belt draw.
posted by Artw at 11:02 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Artw at 11:02 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
Bannon said something more or less sane-sounding about North Korea. That was probably when they knew he had to go.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 11:02 AM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Sing Or Swim at 11:02 AM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
I really thought I'd have a much stronger reaction to Bannon's ouster, but for so long he's just seemed like a paper tiger who doesn't even do anything that now it's just like any other Trump firing. I mean the expectation with Bannon was just an onslaught of evilly clever machinations transforming the nation into some funhouse mirror nightmare, and the reality was a bunch of workplace squabbling and pissing contests with other advisors. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad it worked out that way, but still, it's a weird feeling.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:03 AM on August 18, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 11:03 AM on August 18, 2017 [16 favorites]
Second, I decline at the moment to believe that Bannon will be blocked entirely on the president*'s cell phone. And third, given that this is a president* who would require his paper boy to sign a non-disclosure agreement, I think it's reasonable to speculate that Bannon's silence will be handsomely remunerated.
I don't think Charlie Pierce is taking into account the role of Breitbart as Bannon's obvious mouthpiece here. Breitbart is apparently going to go all in against Trump now, and it's already started.
posted by yasaman at 11:03 AM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
I don't think Charlie Pierce is taking into account the role of Breitbart as Bannon's obvious mouthpiece here. Breitbart is apparently going to go all in against Trump now, and it's already started.
posted by yasaman at 11:03 AM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
so we've had a Watergate-like scandal, the threat of nuclear war hanging over us, conflict with North Korea, a return to an adversarial relationship with Russia, and the Nazis are back
And don't forget re-litigating the Civil War.
The Trump Administration is like playing American History as a Megaman game; you have to go back and beat all the bosses again before the final showdown.
posted by Freon at 11:03 AM on August 18, 2017 [38 favorites]
And don't forget re-litigating the Civil War.
The Trump Administration is like playing American History as a Megaman game; you have to go back and beat all the bosses again before the final showdown.
posted by Freon at 11:03 AM on August 18, 2017 [38 favorites]
Having trouble describing Trump as a Nazi. He's an evil narcissist, which means he's incapable of seeing anything beyond himself, which is not true of Nazis. He may exhibit Nazi-like behavior, which other people imitate, but he's not a true Nazi. Nazis actually think about other people once in a while.
posted by Melismata at 11:05 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 11:05 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
So the last stage would be you fight to free yourselves from a really shitty king?
posted by Artw at 11:06 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 11:06 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
for so long he's just seemed like a paper tiger who doesn't even do anything
Agreed, me too. I mean he sounds awful, and manipulaitive, and evil-geniusy (sort of) but, has proven to be not capable of much besides petty white collar scams. And start up meth labs.
posted by rc3spencer at 11:06 AM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Agreed, me too. I mean he sounds awful, and manipulaitive, and evil-geniusy (sort of) but, has proven to be not capable of much besides petty white collar scams. And start up meth labs.
posted by rc3spencer at 11:06 AM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
You know, I don't make animated GIFS often, but when I do, it's very satisfying.
posted by jeremias at 11:07 AM on August 18, 2017 [44 favorites]
posted by jeremias at 11:07 AM on August 18, 2017 [44 favorites]
(Also please do not drag the UK into this they've enough failing democracy problems as it is.)
posted by Artw at 11:07 AM on August 18, 2017
posted by Artw at 11:07 AM on August 18, 2017
Breitbart: With Steve Bannon Gone, Donald Trump Risks Becoming Arnold Schwarzenegger 2.0
Uhh... for this president, is that really supposed to be a deterrent?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:10 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
Uhh... for this president, is that really supposed to be a deterrent?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:10 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
Trump wishes. People actually like Arnold, and he still has a career.
posted by Autumnheart at 11:13 AM on August 18, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by Autumnheart at 11:13 AM on August 18, 2017 [18 favorites]
jeremias: I hope you don't mind -- I shared your gif on Facebook with the caption "The.Best.People".
posted by syzygy at 11:14 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by syzygy at 11:14 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
so we've had a Watergate-like scandal, the threat of nuclear war hanging over us, conflict with North Korea, a return to an adversarial relationship with Russia, and the Nazis are back
And don't forget re-litigating the Civil War.
AND IT'S STILL THE FIRST SUMMER OF THIS GODDAMN ADMINISTRATION
posted by numaner at 11:15 AM on August 18, 2017 [28 favorites]
And don't forget re-litigating the Civil War.
AND IT'S STILL THE FIRST SUMMER OF THIS GODDAMN ADMINISTRATION
posted by numaner at 11:15 AM on August 18, 2017 [28 favorites]
Don't forget that Schwarzenegger replaced Trump on the last season of The Apprentice since Trump was busy ruining the world, and they've been bickering about both of their failures quite publicly since. If Brietbart is really going full #WAR against the White House, this comparison is not accidental.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 11:15 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by MCMikeNamara at 11:15 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
Uhh... for this president, is that really supposed to be a deterrent?
Breitbart: If Trump Resigns, He Risks Looking Really Badass Like He's Walking Away From an Explosion He Just Caused Without Looking Back At It
That'll work, right?
posted by Behemoth at 11:15 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
Breitbart: If Trump Resigns, He Risks Looking Really Badass Like He's Walking Away From an Explosion He Just Caused Without Looking Back At It
That'll work, right?
posted by Behemoth at 11:15 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
Breitbart's immediate turn against the Trump White House will be very... i wish there was a word to describe the pleasure I feel at viewing misfortune.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:15 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by leotrotsky at 11:15 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
@TVietor08 (Pod Save America)
Sources tell me that Steve resigned because he wanted to spend more time sucking his own cock.
posted by chris24 at 11:16 AM on August 18, 2017 [56 favorites]
Sources tell me that Steve resigned because he wanted to spend more time sucking his own cock.
posted by chris24 at 11:16 AM on August 18, 2017 [56 favorites]
> AND IT'S STILL THE FIRST HOPEFULLY THE LAST SUMMER OF THIS GODDAMN ADMINISTRATION
Much better.
posted by lydhre at 11:18 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
Much better.
posted by lydhre at 11:18 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Quindar Beep at 11:19 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
I stepped into The_Donald for just a sec. The best they can come up with is, "Hey! This wasn't leaked!!!! Yay us!" and "There is no drama, all you people coming to see us fall apart. We still love Trump!" It's pretty heartening.
posted by thebrokedown at 11:22 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by thebrokedown at 11:22 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
jeremias: I hope you don't mind -- I shared your gif on Facebook with the caption "The.Best.People".
Don't mind at all! Let the meme times roll . . .
posted by jeremias at 11:24 AM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
Don't mind at all! Let the meme times roll . . .
posted by jeremias at 11:24 AM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
From WaPo's Robert Costa: The real backstory here, based on lots of convos: Kelly firmly in control but Jared remains the key figure in admin...
Really? Jared? All this nonsense hinges on noted idiot Jared Kushner? That's it, everyone stop imputing literally any sense or intelligence or nuance to basically any decision that comes out of the White House, especially when it comes to staffing. It's self-serving idiots all the way down and all the way up.
posted by yasaman at 11:31 AM on August 18, 2017 [30 favorites]
Really? Jared? All this nonsense hinges on noted idiot Jared Kushner? That's it, everyone stop imputing literally any sense or intelligence or nuance to basically any decision that comes out of the White House, especially when it comes to staffing. It's self-serving idiots all the way down and all the way up.
posted by yasaman at 11:31 AM on August 18, 2017 [30 favorites]
Having trouble describing Trump as a Nazi. He's an evil narcissist, which means he's incapable of seeing anything beyond himself, which is not true of Nazis.
I assume you are saying this tongue in cheek? Hitler and company were evil narcissists too, who likewise used populist language to gain power and then did zip for their supposed constituency. I really think the ONLY accurate word for Trump's political identity is Nazi.
posted by bearwife at 11:32 AM on August 18, 2017 [13 favorites]
I assume you are saying this tongue in cheek? Hitler and company were evil narcissists too, who likewise used populist language to gain power and then did zip for their supposed constituency. I really think the ONLY accurate word for Trump's political identity is Nazi.
posted by bearwife at 11:32 AM on August 18, 2017 [13 favorites]
Kelly firmly in control
ahahahahahaaaaahhaa. sure.
posted by lydhre at 11:32 AM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
ahahahahahaaaaahhaa. sure.
posted by lydhre at 11:32 AM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
I think even hardcore fans agree that the showrunners badly miscast President 45. It's barely an eighth of the way through the first season and to say the new Prez has failed to gel, completely mines out every seam on Planet Obvious. Rumour has it that one script in particular, named Pivot, just couldn't get the characters right and it got pushed further and further down the arc from its intended second episode slot. Instead, denied the chance to put the President and his (also desperately disappointing) companion on a different course from the dark chaos signalled at his regeneration, the writers have had to double-down on it, creating unsustainable alliances with old monsters and driving wedge after wedge between 45 and his normal allies. There's simply nowhere left to go.
Many fans predicted this from the off, while others argued that given time, the new dynamic could refresh a format that some think had already run all the changes. They're not saying that now.
The show is bombing and options are few. A surprise mid-season regeneration? Could be. Even so, it's very unlikely that the format refresh so many wanted and still want to happen, a female Prez, will happen this time round.
posted by Devonian at 11:33 AM on August 18, 2017 [24 favorites]
Many fans predicted this from the off, while others argued that given time, the new dynamic could refresh a format that some think had already run all the changes. They're not saying that now.
The show is bombing and options are few. A surprise mid-season regeneration? Could be. Even so, it's very unlikely that the format refresh so many wanted and still want to happen, a female Prez, will happen this time round.
posted by Devonian at 11:33 AM on August 18, 2017 [24 favorites]
From one of the top Breitbart guys. 🍿🍿🍿
@joelpollak
#WAR
posted by chris24 at 11:36 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
@joelpollak
#WAR
posted by chris24 at 11:36 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
From one of the top Breitbart guys.
@joelpollak
#WAR
I am finding it increasingly hard to convince myself it's unseemly to make a martini at 2:30 in the afternoon.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 11:37 AM on August 18, 2017 [31 favorites]
@joelpollak
#WAR
I am finding it increasingly hard to convince myself it's unseemly to make a martini at 2:30 in the afternoon.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 11:37 AM on August 18, 2017 [31 favorites]
It's Two Thirty Somewhere
posted by cortex at 11:39 AM on August 18, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by cortex at 11:39 AM on August 18, 2017 [28 favorites]
Breitbart's WH head.
@charliespiering
And kids, that's the day when Bannon the Barbarian was born...
posted by chris24 at 11:41 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
@charliespiering
And kids, that's the day when Bannon the Barbarian was born...
posted by chris24 at 11:41 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
Ugh. I left for the wilderness two weeks ago, got sort of rained out but avoided news all the same, and now that I've been back for a week I figured I'd just keep avoiding the news and be productive. But the stupid Facebook newsbar tells me Bannon's gone? And was supposed to have been gone a while ago?? I guess that convinced to start paying attention again. Sigh.
This is still the timeline where the Union defeated the Confederate army so I don't have to hear about that in 2017, the Allies defeated Nazis so I don't have to hear about them in 2017, and the Packers are going to crush Cutler and the Bears at the end of the month, right? Nothing new with any of that in the last 2 weeks?
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 11:41 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
This is still the timeline where the Union defeated the Confederate army so I don't have to hear about that in 2017, the Allies defeated Nazis so I don't have to hear about them in 2017, and the Packers are going to crush Cutler and the Bears at the end of the month, right? Nothing new with any of that in the last 2 weeks?
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 11:41 AM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
@NaveedAJamali
Sources tell me Bannon was unhappy about not being able to wear white sheets after Labor Day
posted by Sophie1 at 11:41 AM on August 18, 2017 [30 favorites]
Sources tell me Bannon was unhappy about not being able to wear white sheets after Labor Day
posted by Sophie1 at 11:41 AM on August 18, 2017 [30 favorites]
Just got home from the counterprotest in Durham. No KKK showed, so we just had an awesome dance party instead. Because Durm.
posted by Dorinda at 11:41 AM on August 18, 2017 [76 favorites]
posted by Dorinda at 11:41 AM on August 18, 2017 [76 favorites]
I see that the Ivanka and Jared spin machine is running at full horsepower.
(nice try)
#complicit
posted by Yowser at 11:43 AM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
(nice try)
#complicit
posted by Yowser at 11:43 AM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
From Ashley Parker, Philip Rucker, Robert Costa and Damian Paletta at WaPo:
Some White House officials also said Friday they expect some of Bannon’s allies inside the administration to exit with him. Bannon works closely with a number of White House officials, including national security aide Sebastian Gorka and assistant Julia Hahn.Bloomberg also has a story with sources saying Gorka is in danger:
Sebastian Gorka, a Bannon ally who previously worked with him at Breitbart News, also faces possible removal from his post as a counter-terrorism aide to the president, said two people with knowledge of the situation.posted by yasaman at 11:44 AM on August 18, 2017 [21 favorites]
"Bannon friend says Breitbart ramping up for war against Trump. "It's now a Democrat White House," source says."
So this is probably going to be like a Nazi clown-car version of George Osborne's stint at the Evening Standard...
posted by acb at 11:47 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
So this is probably going to be like a Nazi clown-car version of George Osborne's stint at the Evening Standard...
posted by acb at 11:47 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Being a Brit, I am particularly antagonistic to Gorka and will most certainly sink pints of delicious warm flat bitter with London Dry Gin chasers when - and ah say when - the irksome spod is defenestrated.
posted by Devonian at 11:49 AM on August 18, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 11:49 AM on August 18, 2017 [23 favorites]
There is literally not a single good picture of Steve Bannon on this Earth.
posted by guiseroom at 11:49 AM on August 18, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by guiseroom at 11:49 AM on August 18, 2017 [24 favorites]
Stolen from Reddit:
One of those Confederate statues was his last Horcrux.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:49 AM on August 18, 2017 [76 favorites]
One of those Confederate statues was his last Horcrux.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:49 AM on August 18, 2017 [76 favorites]
Alex Jones is such a fan of false flags he decided to make his own!
posted by Yowser at 11:49 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 11:49 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
chris24: And kids, that's the day when Bannon the Barbarian was born...
Oh, boy, sleep! That's where I'm a barbarian!
Per NPR: The White House described the departure as a mutual agreement between Bannon and chief of staff John Kelly.
"We are grateful for his service and wish him the best," said press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders.
The article also notes: "Bannon took over as Trump's campaign chairman a year and a day ago, and he was credited with bringing much-needed focus and discipline to what had been a seat-of-the-pants operation." (Link to related NPR piece)
CHART: The Relationship Between Seeing Discrimination And Voting For Trump (Danielle Kurtzleben on NPR, August 18, 2017)
posted by filthy light thief at 11:50 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Oh, boy, sleep! That's where I'm a barbarian!
Per NPR: The White House described the departure as a mutual agreement between Bannon and chief of staff John Kelly.
"We are grateful for his service and wish him the best," said press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders.
The article also notes: "Bannon took over as Trump's campaign chairman a year and a day ago, and he was credited with bringing much-needed focus and discipline to what had been a seat-of-the-pants operation." (Link to related NPR piece)
CHART: The Relationship Between Seeing Discrimination And Voting For Trump (Danielle Kurtzleben on NPR, August 18, 2017)
The survey found that a plurality of Americans — 42 percent — perceive "a lot of discrimination" against three groups: black people, immigrants, and gay and lesbian people. But the partisan gap is large: 61 percent of Democrats believed this of all three groups, compared with 19 percent of Republicans.And from the heady days of ... yesterday -- Bannon, Unplugged: White House Strategist Pushes Trade Agenda, Undercuts Colleagues (NPR, Aug. 17, 2017), on his interview with The American Prospect.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:50 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
There is literally not a single good picture of Steve Bannon on this Earth.
Same with 45, I've often observed. Just as it seemed impossible to get a truly bad photo of Obama, it seems impossible to get a good one of 45.
I'm not so sure I buy into the "Bannon is going to burn it all down now that he's out" thing. Sounds a bit too good to be true.
posted by holborne at 11:52 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
Same with 45, I've often observed. Just as it seemed impossible to get a truly bad photo of Obama, it seems impossible to get a good one of 45.
I'm not so sure I buy into the "Bannon is going to burn it all down now that he's out" thing. Sounds a bit too good to be true.
posted by holborne at 11:52 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
There is literally not a single good picture of Steve Bannon on this Earth.
right, all the flattering pictures of him are on the plateau of Leng
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:53 AM on August 18, 2017 [21 favorites]
right, all the flattering pictures of him are on the plateau of Leng
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:53 AM on August 18, 2017 [21 favorites]
Bannon took over as Trump's campaign chairman a year and a day ago
Fey curse confirmed
posted by theodolite at 11:53 AM on August 18, 2017 [18 favorites]
Fey curse confirmed
posted by theodolite at 11:53 AM on August 18, 2017 [18 favorites]
@Carvelicecream
Introducing our latest Carvel Ice Cream cake: The Tina #sheetcaking #WeekendUpdate @nbcsnl
(sorry mods. i couldn't help myself)
posted by Sophie1 at 11:55 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Introducing our latest Carvel Ice Cream cake: The Tina #sheetcaking #WeekendUpdate @nbcsnl
(sorry mods. i couldn't help myself)
posted by Sophie1 at 11:55 AM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Gorka could just be leaving for SPECTRE reserve duty
posted by jason_steakums at 11:55 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 11:55 AM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm getting a kick out of the variety in Bannon headlines I'm seeing:
"fired"
"resigns"
"out"
"gone"
"removed from role"
"exits"
"departs"
"departure"
"gets rid of"
"leaving"
"ouster"
"ousted"
posted by zakur at 11:55 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
"fired"
"resigns"
"out"
"gone"
"removed from role"
"exits"
"departs"
"departure"
"gets rid of"
"leaving"
"ouster"
"ousted"
posted by zakur at 11:55 AM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
There is literally not a single good picture of Steve Bannon on this Earth.
There is one good picture of Steve Bannon, and he keeps it in his attic. You see, he sold his soul to the Devil, and for every sin he commits, it is etched upon his own face while the picture remains pristine.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:56 AM on August 18, 2017 [33 favorites]
There is one good picture of Steve Bannon, and he keeps it in his attic. You see, he sold his soul to the Devil, and for every sin he commits, it is etched upon his own face while the picture remains pristine.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:56 AM on August 18, 2017 [33 favorites]
An important point from Greg Sargent:
posted by zachlipton at 11:57 AM on August 18, 2017 [44 favorites]
The idea that Trump won a landslide is an absurd lie, and the idea that Trump has any kind of agenda of “economic nationalism” to speak of is laughable. There are no trade or infrastructure plans (something progressives would actually like to see) in sight. The only real policies Trump has embraced that fit under what Bannon describes as “economic nationalism” are stepped-up deportations, slashing legal immigration and the thinly disguised Muslim ban. Indeed, it’s telling that Bannon defends Trump’s Charlottesville response by pointing to the alleged power of his alleged “economic nationalism” — it validates suspicions that this was always intended largely as a fig leaf for xenophobia and racism.Whatever Bannon personally believes in his heart of heart is irrelevant; what matters is the actions of the administration. And on that score, we haven't seen one ounce of economic nationalism put into place that wasn't just straight up racism. Anything Bannon supposedly pitched that was at all populist, like higher taxes for the rich, was 100% dead on arrival. To the extent Bannon really believed he could forge a new party system rooted in economic populism, his only accomplishments were feeding into Trump's pre-existing beliefs on race.
posted by zachlipton at 11:57 AM on August 18, 2017 [44 favorites]
Gork
I tellz ya it's Mork, ya git.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:57 AM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
I tellz ya it's Mork, ya git.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:57 AM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Alex Jones Comes to Seattle, Rants on Street Corner, Gets Doused with Coffee by "Vicious Leftists"
posted by escape from the potato planet at 11:57 AM on August 18, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by escape from the potato planet at 11:57 AM on August 18, 2017 [29 favorites]
There is literally not a single good picture of Steve Bannon on this Earth.
It may not be good in the classical sense but this one has a certain je ne sais quois.
posted by scalefree at 11:57 AM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
It may not be good in the classical sense but this one has a certain je ne sais quois.
posted by scalefree at 11:57 AM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
I'm getting a kick out of the variety in Bannon headlines I'm seeing:
My favorite:
‘My Work Here Is Done,’ Smiles Contented Bannon Before Bursting Into Millions Of Spores
posted by A Terrible Llama at 11:58 AM on August 18, 2017 [57 favorites]
My favorite:
‘My Work Here Is Done,’ Smiles Contented Bannon Before Bursting Into Millions Of Spores
posted by A Terrible Llama at 11:58 AM on August 18, 2017 [57 favorites]
There is literally not a single good picture of Steve Bannon on this Earth.
That's his secret. They're all good pictures. You should see the bad pictures.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:58 AM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
That's his secret. They're all good pictures. You should see the bad pictures.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:58 AM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
I know it's not terribly original to comment on the speed with which (universally appalling) news moves under this administration, but i just got back from a pretty busy conference that started on Saturday and just, like... Jesus Christ, you guys.
In a couple decades, we're going to have to explain this gonzo shit to young people. I'm at a loss.
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 11:59 AM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
In a couple decades, we're going to have to explain this gonzo shit to young people. I'm at a loss.
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 11:59 AM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
It's noon here, so... *raises glass* *goes back to re-reading Maus*
posted by erisfree at 12:01 PM on August 18, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by erisfree at 12:01 PM on August 18, 2017 [10 favorites]
I really really believe we need to round up all the election threads and trump threads into some sort of historic document. Blank the user names if need be but the scale and speed of this stuff will be impossible to explain otherwise.
posted by gofargogo at 12:03 PM on August 18, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by gofargogo at 12:03 PM on August 18, 2017 [14 favorites]
@davidehrlich: BREAKING NEWS: Grotesque Confederate Statue Removed from the White House.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:04 PM on August 18, 2017 [60 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 12:04 PM on August 18, 2017 [60 favorites]
Gork
I tellz ya it's Mork, ya git.
Sooo sometimes posting on a smartphone on a megathread means weird posts happen accidentally due to button position lag... but I almost did leave it as just "Gork" :D
Hey, at least this time it wasn't accidentally copying & pasting the entire thread into a quote and accidentally posting it, that was a fun frantic edit.
posted by jason_steakums at 12:04 PM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
I tellz ya it's Mork, ya git.
Sooo sometimes posting on a smartphone on a megathread means weird posts happen accidentally due to button position lag... but I almost did leave it as just "Gork" :D
Hey, at least this time it wasn't accidentally copying & pasting the entire thread into a quote and accidentally posting it, that was a fun frantic edit.
posted by jason_steakums at 12:04 PM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
Special Assistant to the President Julia Hahn (a former Breitbart editor) is also gone.
So three people so far.
posted by chris24 at 12:04 PM on August 18, 2017 [23 favorites]
So three people so far.
posted by chris24 at 12:04 PM on August 18, 2017 [23 favorites]
Alex Jones Comes to Seattle, Rants on Street Corner, Gets Doused with Coffee by "Vicious Leftists"
This town rules. Welcome to Seattle, ya douchebag.
posted by Existential Dread at 12:04 PM on August 18, 2017 [14 favorites]
This town rules. Welcome to Seattle, ya douchebag.
posted by Existential Dread at 12:04 PM on August 18, 2017 [14 favorites]
Entire academic careers will be founded on examining the last six months. And the next six months.
Unless we're all dead by then but hey, that was waaaaay back at the beginning of this thread/week, so....
posted by emjaybee at 12:05 PM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
Unless we're all dead by then but hey, that was waaaaay back at the beginning of this thread/week, so....
posted by emjaybee at 12:05 PM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
escape from the potato planet: Alex Jones Comes to Seattle, Rants on Street Corner, Gets Doused with Coffee by "Vicious Leftists"
"You cursed leftie! Look what you've done! I'm melting! melting! Oh, what a world! What a world! Who would have thought a vicious leftist like you could destroy my beautiful wickedness? Oooooh, look out! I'm going! Oooooh! Ooooooh!"
[fake/dream]
posted by filthy light thief at 12:07 PM on August 18, 2017 [17 favorites]
"You cursed leftie! Look what you've done! I'm melting! melting! Oh, what a world! What a world! Who would have thought a vicious leftist like you could destroy my beautiful wickedness? Oooooh, look out! I'm going! Oooooh! Ooooooh!"
[fake/dream]
posted by filthy light thief at 12:07 PM on August 18, 2017 [17 favorites]
In a couple decades, we're going to have to explain this gonzo shit to young people. I'm at a loss.
We have to start now. Resources for educators (and I view families and community to be educators too).
posted by anya32 at 12:07 PM on August 18, 2017 [10 favorites]
We have to start now. Resources for educators (and I view families and community to be educators too).
posted by anya32 at 12:07 PM on August 18, 2017 [10 favorites]
Alex Jones Comes to Seattle, Rants on Street Corner, Gets Doused with Coffee by "Vicious Leftists"
I was on the receiving end of an Alex Jones live-streamed harassing on Election Day of all days, and WHAT I WOULDN'T HAVE GIVEN for a plucky vicious leftist passing by with a hot cup of coffee at that moment. My personal gratitude to whomever sacrificed their coffee to embarrass this piece of shit.
posted by marshmallow peep at 12:08 PM on August 18, 2017 [18 favorites]
I was on the receiving end of an Alex Jones live-streamed harassing on Election Day of all days, and WHAT I WOULDN'T HAVE GIVEN for a plucky vicious leftist passing by with a hot cup of coffee at that moment. My personal gratitude to whomever sacrificed their coffee to embarrass this piece of shit.
posted by marshmallow peep at 12:08 PM on August 18, 2017 [18 favorites]
This is a pretty great recap of the last four weeks from CNN's Brooke Baldwin.
I know this sounds like one of those things where it's like "I've been here I don't need to see this," but you should watch it. Having it all in one list is astonishing.
Also, are we down to like one Steve in this Administration at this point?
posted by zachlipton at 12:09 PM on August 18, 2017 [28 favorites]
I know this sounds like one of those things where it's like "I've been here I don't need to see this," but you should watch it. Having it all in one list is astonishing.
Also, are we down to like one Steve in this Administration at this point?
posted by zachlipton at 12:09 PM on August 18, 2017 [28 favorites]
And the markets weigh in. Bannon's White House exit lifts U.S. stocks; dollar off lows.
Countdown until Trump congratulates himself for firing the horrible racist he was horrible and racist enough to hire in the first place.
Alex Jones Comes to Seattle, Rants on Street Corner, Gets Doused with Coffee by "Vicious Leftists"
Never have I been prouder to live here.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:09 PM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
Countdown until Trump congratulates himself for firing the horrible racist he was horrible and racist enough to hire in the first place.
Alex Jones Comes to Seattle, Rants on Street Corner, Gets Doused with Coffee by "Vicious Leftists"
Never have I been prouder to live here.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:09 PM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
> Also, are we down to like one Steve in this Administration at this point?
At this point, the entire administration is one Donald and several hundred Merediths.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:10 PM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
At this point, the entire administration is one Donald and several hundred Merediths.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:10 PM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
chris24, I'm not seeing anything about Julia Hahn at your link.
posted by yasaman at 12:10 PM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by yasaman at 12:10 PM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Also, are we down to like one Steve in this Administration at this point?
I think it is just noted C+ Santa Monica fascist Stephen Miller at this point, yes.
posted by yasaman at 12:11 PM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
I think it is just noted C+ Santa Monica fascist Stephen Miller at this point, yes.
posted by yasaman at 12:11 PM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
From the beginning I've had this weird vague association between Bannon and Rodin's sculpture of Balzac.
posted by sylvanshine at 12:12 PM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by sylvanshine at 12:12 PM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
Also, are we down to like one Steve in this Administration at this point?
Sadly, I think not. Given that two of the three firings from today are people whose names I don't recognize, as a reader of these MeFi threads, I assume they're culling the most visibly rotten wood so they can say "look, we're rid of former Breitbart staff now!"
(Writing this, I half expect them to hire them back as consultants, thereby reducing the size of government, yet keeping them on the payroll, possibly with raises)
posted by filthy light thief at 12:12 PM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
Sadly, I think not. Given that two of the three firings from today are people whose names I don't recognize, as a reader of these MeFi threads, I assume they're culling the most visibly rotten wood so they can say "look, we're rid of former Breitbart staff now!"
(Writing this, I half expect them to hire them back as consultants, thereby reducing the size of government, yet keeping them on the payroll, possibly with raises)
posted by filthy light thief at 12:12 PM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
Bloomberg also has a story with sources saying Gorka is in danger:
Oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:13 PM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
Oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:13 PM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm going to submit that I don't think Steve Bannon planned on working another day in the White House. I think he was done; he's doubling down on Breitbart, and speaking of day drinking if he's not cheerfully knocking back scotch right now, or whatever equivalent of 'cheer' exists in his world, I'd be really surprised.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 12:13 PM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by A Terrible Llama at 12:13 PM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Alex Jones Comes to Seattle, Rants on Street Corner, Gets Doused with Coffee by "Vicious Leftists"
What, would he prefer people to litter? A trash can is the right place to throw your coffee away.
posted by rhizome at 12:13 PM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
What, would he prefer people to litter? A trash can is the right place to throw your coffee away.
posted by rhizome at 12:13 PM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
Alex Jones Comes to Seattle, Rants on Street Corner, Gets Doused with Coffee by "Vicious Leftists"
JFC, i've been prepping myself for the possibility of Nazis in the street but now I have to worry about randomly running into Alex Jones crazy ass?!
Worst time line ever.
posted by photoslob at 12:13 PM on August 18, 2017 [17 favorites]
JFC, i've been prepping myself for the possibility of Nazis in the street but now I have to worry about randomly running into Alex Jones crazy ass?!
Worst time line ever.
posted by photoslob at 12:13 PM on August 18, 2017 [17 favorites]
chris24, I'm not seeing anything about Julia Hahn at your link.
Sorry, correct link.
posted by chris24 at 12:14 PM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Sorry, correct link.
posted by chris24 at 12:14 PM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
@jeffspross (The Week)
1. A brief tweetstorm thought on Steve Bannon’s departure from the White House. Vox: Steve Bannon’s exit from the Trump White House, explained
2. There were always two basic roads a Trump administration could’ve gone down.
3. Road One was Bannon-ism: Xenophobia, but also a genuine break w/ GOP econ orthodoxy. Taxes on the rich, infrastructure, stimulus, etc.
4. Road Two was to just make the subtext of the already-existing GOP text.
5. The Republicans had been playing footsie w/ the forces of white backlash, supremacy & authoritarianism well before Trump arrived.
6. The GOP’s economic agenda is wildly unpopular. So they had to play on those forces to give it political cover. Chiat: The GOP’s Age of Authoritarianism Has Only Just Begun
7. All major GOP candidates implicitly did this. But it was also accepted procedure to explicitly deny you were doing this.
8. Trump, being Trump, didn’t get the memo. He’s happy to explicitly support racist attitudes, white supremacist movements, and more.
9. The only question was whether he’d ultimately go along with existing GOP economic orthodoxy, or go w/ the heterodoxy of Bannon-ism.
10. With Bannon’s departure, we have our answer.
11. Trump will not be "a new kind of" Republican. He will be the unfiltered id of the Republican Party we already have.
12. W/out Bannon as an excuse, it will be interesting how people react to how ugly the "Republican Party we already have" actually is. /FIN
posted by chris24 at 12:17 PM on August 18, 2017 [62 favorites]
1. A brief tweetstorm thought on Steve Bannon’s departure from the White House. Vox: Steve Bannon’s exit from the Trump White House, explained
2. There were always two basic roads a Trump administration could’ve gone down.
3. Road One was Bannon-ism: Xenophobia, but also a genuine break w/ GOP econ orthodoxy. Taxes on the rich, infrastructure, stimulus, etc.
4. Road Two was to just make the subtext of the already-existing GOP text.
5. The Republicans had been playing footsie w/ the forces of white backlash, supremacy & authoritarianism well before Trump arrived.
6. The GOP’s economic agenda is wildly unpopular. So they had to play on those forces to give it political cover. Chiat: The GOP’s Age of Authoritarianism Has Only Just Begun
7. All major GOP candidates implicitly did this. But it was also accepted procedure to explicitly deny you were doing this.
8. Trump, being Trump, didn’t get the memo. He’s happy to explicitly support racist attitudes, white supremacist movements, and more.
9. The only question was whether he’d ultimately go along with existing GOP economic orthodoxy, or go w/ the heterodoxy of Bannon-ism.
10. With Bannon’s departure, we have our answer.
11. Trump will not be "a new kind of" Republican. He will be the unfiltered id of the Republican Party we already have.
12. W/out Bannon as an excuse, it will be interesting how people react to how ugly the "Republican Party we already have" actually is. /FIN
posted by chris24 at 12:17 PM on August 18, 2017 [62 favorites]
In case you're like me and had no idea who Hahn was: Birth of a Radical — White Fear in the White House: Young Bannon Disciple Julia Hahn Is a Case Study in Extremism
posted by tonycpsu at 12:18 PM on August 18, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 12:18 PM on August 18, 2017 [14 favorites]
I think it is just noted C+ Santa Monica fascist Stephen Miller at this point, yes.
Don't forget Mnuchin fellow friend of the pod.
posted by cmfletcher at 12:19 PM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
Don't forget Mnuchin fellow friend of the pod.
posted by cmfletcher at 12:19 PM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
Hitler and company were evil narcissists too, who likewise used populist language to gain power and then did zip for their supposed constituency.
As documented in Götz Aly's Hitler's Beneficiaries: Plunder, Racial War, and the Nazi Welfare State, rank-and-file "native Germans" did extraordinarily well from of the plunder of the rest of Europe, at least until the stolen populations and territories were liberated.
The World Wars were really European colonialism turning upon itself, after there was nothing left to take in the rest of the world.
posted by Coventry at 12:20 PM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
As documented in Götz Aly's Hitler's Beneficiaries: Plunder, Racial War, and the Nazi Welfare State, rank-and-file "native Germans" did extraordinarily well from of the plunder of the rest of Europe, at least until the stolen populations and territories were liberated.
The World Wars were really European colonialism turning upon itself, after there was nothing left to take in the rest of the world.
posted by Coventry at 12:20 PM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
I really really believe we need to round up all the election threads and trump threads into some sort of historic document. Blank the user names if need be but the scale and speed of this stuff will be impossible to explain otherwise.
I'd guess we have 300-350 possible threads, based on tags. That would be an epic editing job.
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:20 PM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'd guess we have 300-350 possible threads, based on tags. That would be an epic editing job.
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:20 PM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
Would the last to leave the White House please not light up the East China Sea
posted by delfin at 12:20 PM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by delfin at 12:20 PM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
(Writing this, I half expect them to hire them back as consultants, thereby reducing the size of government, yet keeping them on the payroll, possibly with raises)
At first, I read the last word as "rabies" not "raises". Changes the meaning a bit.
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:22 PM on August 18, 2017
At first, I read the last word as "rabies" not "raises". Changes the meaning a bit.
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:22 PM on August 18, 2017
Props to whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com for good daily summaries - I've been afk for the last week of this madness.
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:22 PM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:22 PM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
And for a peak behind the curtain of state-level staffing shake-up fuck-ups: in January 2017, New Mexico Republican Governor Susana Martinez decided to move many state department HR offices under the central State Personnel Office, without trying to figure how how heavily Federally funded departments, like transportation, would continue to bill their time to specific programs, if they're all operating under one umbrella organization. Oops!
The plan was only outlined in June, and more recent analysis points to flawed assumptions by the Governor:
In short: just another GOP shitshow at the state level here, from a governor who is into her second and final term (due to term limits). What is she trying to do except screw over state employees? I dunno!
Happy Friday!
posted by filthy light thief at 12:23 PM on August 18, 2017 [18 favorites]
The plan was only outlined in June, and more recent analysis points to flawed assumptions by the Governor:
But the move might not pay off immediately.In reality, HR departments have been decimated by staff leaving "early," as the lack of transparency and any real transition planning means that no one knows if they'll have a job in a central SPO office, and if so, when that will start. So hiring everyone else has slowed down significantly, and this could even impact training departments, which throws uncertainty for new and current staff who need any workplace training to conduct their jobs.
“The executive initially indicated the consolidation would save millions,” Legislative Finance Committee staff wrote in a recent analysis, referring to the Martinez administration. “But moving, furniture, rent and other costs may result in cost increases” in the next fiscal year, the report said.
And money saved from eliminating jobs will not be available to spend elsewhere in the cash-strapped state government for the next couple of years, according to the report, but will instead fold into the budgets of individual agencies.
In short: just another GOP shitshow at the state level here, from a governor who is into her second and final term (due to term limits). What is she trying to do except screw over state employees? I dunno!
Happy Friday!
posted by filthy light thief at 12:23 PM on August 18, 2017 [18 favorites]
I was wondering if there was a way to automatically replace text that linked to metafilter.com/user/* with XXXX or something, but i'm not a programmer. Still, these 300(!!!) threads *are* valuable chronicles of the madness we're living through.
posted by gofargogo at 12:23 PM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by gofargogo at 12:23 PM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
You mean you don't want to see who the comment authors are?
posted by Coventry at 12:27 PM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Coventry at 12:27 PM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
> I really really believe we need to round up all the election threads and trump threads into some sort of historic document.
Great idea, and get some data visualization folk on the job. Wavelet analysis of the timing of scoops. Ratio of in-house MF chat to news broadcast. Relevance of twitter over time. There's a TED talk in there.
posted by stonepharisee at 12:27 PM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
Great idea, and get some data visualization folk on the job. Wavelet analysis of the timing of scoops. Ratio of in-house MF chat to news broadcast. Relevance of twitter over time. There's a TED talk in there.
posted by stonepharisee at 12:27 PM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm getting a kick out of the variety in Bannon headlines I'm seeing:
"fired"
"resigns"
"out"
"gone"
"unemployed"
"removed from role"
"terminated"
= FROGURT
we're beyond the looking glass, people
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:27 PM on August 18, 2017 [51 favorites]
"fired"
"resigns"
"out"
"gone"
"unemployed"
"removed from role"
"terminated"
= FROGURT
we're beyond the looking glass, people
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:27 PM on August 18, 2017 [51 favorites]
jeremias: You know, I don't make animated GIFS often, but when I do, it's very satisfying.
As a testament to how damn fast all this shit keeps rolling down the seemingly infinite hill that is 2017, I posted said GIF on Facebook in a reply to a (non Mefite, AFAIK) friend what looks to be 29 minutes after you created it.
Friend: yeah, I saw that.
posted by deludingmyself at 12:33 PM on August 18, 2017 [14 favorites]
As a testament to how damn fast all this shit keeps rolling down the seemingly infinite hill that is 2017, I posted said GIF on Facebook in a reply to a (non Mefite, AFAIK) friend what looks to be 29 minutes after you created it.
Friend: yeah, I saw that.
posted by deludingmyself at 12:33 PM on August 18, 2017 [14 favorites]
While I love that people tell Alex Jones to fuck off and douse him with beverages, that video is really really disturbing. He's going to do this in other places that are "full of cucks" and further instigate the violence-prone dipshits that follow him. Plus, it really seems like he's going to just straight up get stabbed.
How do we know that guy was for real and not a 'crisis actor' employed by Jones to toss (room temperature) coffee in his face on camera? I'm just asking questions here...
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:40 PM on August 18, 2017 [51 favorites]
How do we know that guy was for real and not a 'crisis actor' employed by Jones to toss (room temperature) coffee in his face on camera? I'm just asking questions here...
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:40 PM on August 18, 2017 [51 favorites]
This is a pretty great recap of the last four weeks from CNN's Brooke Baldwin.
Sweet jesus this is insane
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:43 PM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Sweet jesus this is insane
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:43 PM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
So my new political crush Amy McGrath has another campaign video out today.
posted by deludingmyself at 12:45 PM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by deludingmyself at 12:45 PM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
How is Bannon Banished not the headline? C'mon headline writers, get with the program.
posted by Bovine Love at 12:47 PM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Bovine Love at 12:47 PM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
On an unrelated note, apparently Alex Jones has been puttering around downtown Seattle, ranting and raving at passersby on the sidewalks for his show.
Galaxy brain: Alex Jones planted those people. I mean how many people would recognize Alex Jones on the street?
posted by dis_integration at 12:48 PM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
Galaxy brain: Alex Jones planted those people. I mean how many people would recognize Alex Jones on the street?
posted by dis_integration at 12:48 PM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
C'mon headline writers, get with the program.
Hahahahahaha
posted by Melismata at 12:49 PM on August 18, 2017
Hahahahahaha
posted by Melismata at 12:49 PM on August 18, 2017
tpm's headline is "BANNISHED"
posted by murphy slaw at 12:49 PM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 12:49 PM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
IDK, after Jones was "featured" on John Oliver, probably a fair amount.
posted by Twain Device at 12:49 PM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Twain Device at 12:49 PM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
How is Bannon Banished not the headline? C'mon headline writers, get with the program.
As I write this, TPM's headline is "BANNISHED"
posted by jammer at 12:49 PM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
As I write this, TPM's headline is "BANNISHED"
posted by jammer at 12:49 PM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Early on in the Trump administration, I sort of liked the "President Bannon" meme, not because I thought it was accurate, but because I knew it would piss POTUS off and throw him off his game. (Had I known then how he responds to these things, I would have probably felt differently.) Anyway, one good thing about Bannon being gone is that now we can dispel once and for all with the fiction that Bannon is the one pulling the white supremacist strings for a reluctant POTUS. As Trump triples and quadruples down on bigotry, there won't be any question who it's coming from.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:50 PM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 12:50 PM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
I was kind of hoping to see at least one headline somewhere that said, "Bannon is Gone, I Hope He's Drifted Out to Sea," but that's probably a bit obscure for anyone not born before, say, 1970.
posted by holborne at 12:50 PM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by holborne at 12:50 PM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
Nazi who attended Charlottesville white supremacist rally leaves Boston University after being identified and then gives an interview to Time telling them that he's not the hater, the other side are the haters.
posted by Sophie1 at 12:51 PM on August 18, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by Sophie1 at 12:51 PM on August 18, 2017 [19 favorites]
I wonder if Alex Jones was easier to rotoscope in Waking Life seeing as how he's already a cartoon and all.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 12:52 PM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Senor Cardgage at 12:52 PM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
As Trump triples and quadruples down on bigotry, there won't be any question who it's coming from.
stephen miller?
posted by murphy slaw at 12:52 PM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
stephen miller?
posted by murphy slaw at 12:52 PM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
I just wonder why the Jonny Quest character-based reference "Racist Banner" never came into use...
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:55 PM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:55 PM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
(I know the guy who poured coffee on Alex Jones. Definitely for real. He is a cool dude, and has had a some success creating and hosting events in the DIY Wrestling, Comedy Pencil Fighting, etc. He's intense too, I totally believe he was doing a bit but also pretty escalated.)
posted by kittensofthenight at 12:57 PM on August 18, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by kittensofthenight at 12:57 PM on August 18, 2017 [15 favorites]
Nazi who attended Charlottesville white supremacist rally leaves Boston University after being identified and then gives an interview to Time telling them that he's not the hater, the other side are the haters.
Ah yes, Fuentes, a fine aryan name
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:57 PM on August 18, 2017 [24 favorites]
Ah yes, Fuentes, a fine aryan name
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:57 PM on August 18, 2017 [24 favorites]
Alex Jones Comes to Seattle, Rants on Street Corner, Gets Doused with Coffee by "Vicious Leftists"
On the one hand: misuse of a good cup of coffee.
On the other hand: maybe it was shitty coffee
#CovfefeInYourFaFace
posted by Hairy Lobster at 12:58 PM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
On the one hand: misuse of a good cup of coffee.
On the other hand: maybe it was shitty coffee
#CovfefeInYourFaFace
posted by Hairy Lobster at 12:58 PM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
tpm's headline is 'BANNISHED"
Dammit, I'm not as smart and fast as I was as a young pup. Well played, TPM
posted by Bovine Love at 12:58 PM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Dammit, I'm not as smart and fast as I was as a young pup. Well played, TPM
posted by Bovine Love at 12:58 PM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Politico: Inside the rise and fall of Steve Bannon
On the bright side, he doesn't have to dress up anymore:
posted by zachlipton at 12:59 PM on August 18, 2017 [15 favorites]
Still, Bannon appeared to be in denial about his ouster. Although a senior administration official said Bannon submitted his resignation on Aug. 7, the strategist was still shrugging off stories of his looming ouster over the past 10 days, calling them “bullshit,” according to people who have spoken to Bannon.A White House official anonymously stabbing his now-former colleague in the back over stabbing colleagues in the back. Delicious.
...
Kelly didn't understand what Bannon did, why he had a PR portfolio, why he seemed to cause so much trouble with colleagues and why he was so widely disliked. He asked many questions about Bannon in his early days at the White House and found widespread disdain.
"No one liked him,” senior White House official said. "People didn't know what he did other than stab his colleagues in the back."
On the bright side, he doesn't have to dress up anymore:
He has told colleagues he is looking forward to not having to wear a blazer and long pants and may return to Breitbart, where he could cause considerable problems for the president and his agenda.To me, the most fascinating thing about this is the normally contrary Trump doing what "everybody" wanted him to do. I mean, Pelosi was calling for Bannon to go. I honestly thought Bannon would get a longer lease just so Trump didn't feel like he was doing what he was told.
posted by zachlipton at 12:59 PM on August 18, 2017 [15 favorites]
Bannon wasn't good entertainment tv for Trump, unlike the others (Miller, Gorka, Conway, McMaster, etc).
Of course he would eventually go. You gotta dance for the master.
posted by rc3spencer at 1:01 PM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Of course he would eventually go. You gotta dance for the master.
posted by rc3spencer at 1:01 PM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
I know the guy who poured coffee on Alex Jones. Definitely for real. ... , I totally believe he was doing a bit but also pretty escalated.
Wait -- was it real or was it a bit?
posted by paper chromatographologist at 1:01 PM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Wait -- was it real or was it a bit?
posted by paper chromatographologist at 1:01 PM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Metafilter: looking forward to not having to wear [...] pants
posted by Huffy Puffy at 1:02 PM on August 18, 2017
posted by Huffy Puffy at 1:02 PM on August 18, 2017
Ben Phillips on Twitter:
Every newsroom in America:
- Trump has fired the Nazi.
- Which Nazi?
- The one called Steve.
- Which one of the Nazis called Steve?
posted by rabbitrabbit at 1:02 PM on August 18, 2017 [112 favorites]
Every newsroom in America:
- Trump has fired the Nazi.
- Which Nazi?
- The one called Steve.
- Which one of the Nazis called Steve?
posted by rabbitrabbit at 1:02 PM on August 18, 2017 [112 favorites]
MetaFilter: I used Livejournal for a decade.
posted by kingless at 1:04 PM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by kingless at 1:04 PM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
Daily Beast, Swin, Seb Gorka’s Fate ‘Extremely Uncertain’ as His Boss Bannon Is Ousted
Gorka, whose official title is deputy assistant to the president but whose job responsibilities appear to be making Trump happy with his TV hits, had reported directly to Bannon. Bannon had also been his boss when the two worked at the conservative website, Breitbart.posted by zachlipton at 1:05 PM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
Gorka is currently on vacation and wouldn’t comment on this story. But several of his West Wing colleagues have said that Trump’s newly installed chief of staff, former Department of Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly, was deeply “displeased” by some of Gorka’s recent TV performances, according to one senior official who has discussed this with Kelly.
Kelly had recently undertaken an internal review of West Wing staffers’ responsibilities and portfolios. And another White House adviser said that the chief of staff “doesn’t know what [Gorka] does except go on TV sometimes.” For these reason, Gorka’s long-term future with the White House is “extremely uncertain,” this source continued.
He has told colleagues he is looking forward to not having to wear a blazer and long pants and may return to Breitbart, where he could cause considerable problems for the president and his agenda
Objection, assumes the president has an agenda.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:06 PM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
Objection, assumes the president has an agenda.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:06 PM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
Wait -- was it real or was it a bit?
Sorry that was unclear. Exaggerating his actions like in a wrestling promo to intentionally escalate the situation. But not working for Alex Jones.
posted by kittensofthenight at 1:07 PM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
Sorry that was unclear. Exaggerating his actions like in a wrestling promo to intentionally escalate the situation. But not working for Alex Jones.
posted by kittensofthenight at 1:07 PM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
Marionette from Thunderbirds Are Go outed as Charlottesville Nazi
posted by Senor Cardgage at 1:11 PM on August 18, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Senor Cardgage at 1:11 PM on August 18, 2017 [13 favorites]
Although a senior administration official said Bannon submitted his resignation on Aug. 7, the strategist was still shrugging off stories of his looming ouster over the past 10 days, calling them “bullshit,” according to people who have spoken to Bannon.
Once I worked with an extremely difficult person who had the brilliant idea to threaten to resign as a bluff in some stupid "legit complaints from co-workers" = "nobody appreciates the work that I do" situation, and the non-confrontational boss who didn't want to have to fire them just took the out and said "ok, well, best of luck in your next endeavor" and that was that. I could totally see this happening here.
posted by jason_steakums at 1:16 PM on August 18, 2017 [21 favorites]
Once I worked with an extremely difficult person who had the brilliant idea to threaten to resign as a bluff in some stupid "legit complaints from co-workers" = "nobody appreciates the work that I do" situation, and the non-confrontational boss who didn't want to have to fire them just took the out and said "ok, well, best of luck in your next endeavor" and that was that. I could totally see this happening here.
posted by jason_steakums at 1:16 PM on August 18, 2017 [21 favorites]
NASCAR nation's most popular driver weighs in:
Hatred, bigotry, & racism should have no place in this great country. Spread love. https://t.co/aJRxVB4cqB
— Dale Earnhardt Jr. (@DaleJr) August 14, 2017
posted by philip-random at 1:16 PM on August 18, 2017 [17 favorites]
Hatred, bigotry, & racism should have no place in this great country. Spread love. https://t.co/aJRxVB4cqB
— Dale Earnhardt Jr. (@DaleJr) August 14, 2017
posted by philip-random at 1:16 PM on August 18, 2017 [17 favorites]
Bannon's leaving is testing the waters. Trump went too far, he's starting to comprehend that the rest of the government won't work with him and his days of making deals are over, and he won't recover. Bannon is a test shot. If his ratings go up, he may stay, but if they don't, he's going to resign.
I'm telling you all, this is going to end by the end of the year.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 1:20 PM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
I'm telling you all, this is going to end by the end of the year.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 1:20 PM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
Nazi who attended Charlottesville white supremacist rally leaves Boston University ...
An 18-year-old Nazi who talks about his 'brand.' Boston University Admissions is probably having an emergency meeting to do a ground-up rewrite of its screening procedures. What a tool.
posted by Killick at 1:20 PM on August 18, 2017 [25 favorites]
An 18-year-old Nazi who talks about his 'brand.' Boston University Admissions is probably having an emergency meeting to do a ground-up rewrite of its screening procedures. What a tool.
posted by Killick at 1:20 PM on August 18, 2017 [25 favorites]
Wants a more loving America, drives real fast, uses Oxford comma.
3/3, Junior. Well done.
posted by Caxton1476 at 1:21 PM on August 18, 2017 [53 favorites]
3/3, Junior. Well done.
posted by Caxton1476 at 1:21 PM on August 18, 2017 [53 favorites]
I'm telling you all, this is going to end by the end of the year.
Trump might resign. It won't be the end.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 1:21 PM on August 18, 2017 [25 favorites]
Trump might resign. It won't be the end.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 1:21 PM on August 18, 2017 [25 favorites]
Kelly had recently undertaken an internal review of West Wing staffers’ responsibilities and portfolios. And another White House adviser said that the chief of staff “doesn’t know what [Gorka] does except go on TV sometimes.”"What would you say... you do here?"
posted by Huffy Puffy at 1:21 PM on August 18, 2017 [34 favorites]
I just want to say I'm at a con this weekend and decided to take a few days off from politics and the threads... Fuck. I'm never going to catch up.
posted by threeturtles at 1:22 PM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by threeturtles at 1:22 PM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
“doesn’t know what [Gorka] does except go on TV sometimes.”
Well fuck, if that's grounds for kicking people out you might as well get rid of the lot of them.
posted by Artw at 1:24 PM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
Well fuck, if that's grounds for kicking people out you might as well get rid of the lot of them.
posted by Artw at 1:24 PM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
If his ratings go up, he may stay, but if they don't, he's going to resign.
I still think he or people around him know that as soon as he's no longer useful to the GOP, and no longer in a position where he has official powers to hurt them, they're going to find a way to put him and some of his family-or-other-hangers-on in prison just to shut him up.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:24 PM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
I still think he or people around him know that as soon as he's no longer useful to the GOP, and no longer in a position where he has official powers to hurt them, they're going to find a way to put him and some of his family-or-other-hangers-on in prison just to shut him up.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:24 PM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
An 18-year-old Nazi who talks about his 'brand.'
Well, he's managed to brand himself as a Nazi at the tender and stupid age of 18, which will dog him for the rest of his life, if he's unlucky. Good luck in anything other than wingnut welfare, kid; that resume is going straight in the trash anywhere that does a cursory google search on you.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:25 PM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
Well, he's managed to brand himself as a Nazi at the tender and stupid age of 18, which will dog him for the rest of his life, if he's unlucky. Good luck in anything other than wingnut welfare, kid; that resume is going straight in the trash anywhere that does a cursory google search on you.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:25 PM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
Once I worked with an extremely difficult person who had the brilliant idea to threaten to resign as a bluff...
I got to fire a difficult client that way once. It was extremely satisfying. He left a message saying he was taking his business elsewhere. I left a voicemail back saying "OK, we'll have your personal papers at the front counter ready for you to pick up." He then called back to explain how he didn't mean that, that he just said that to get me to move on his (exceptionally difficult) file. "So you lied to me?"
Of course, I knew it was a bluff all along, but I saw an opening, and leapt for it.
posted by Capt. Renault at 1:26 PM on August 18, 2017 [46 favorites]
I got to fire a difficult client that way once. It was extremely satisfying. He left a message saying he was taking his business elsewhere. I left a voicemail back saying "OK, we'll have your personal papers at the front counter ready for you to pick up." He then called back to explain how he didn't mean that, that he just said that to get me to move on his (exceptionally difficult) file. "So you lied to me?"
Of course, I knew it was a bluff all along, but I saw an opening, and leapt for it.
posted by Capt. Renault at 1:26 PM on August 18, 2017 [46 favorites]
This Nazi Nicholas Fuentes talking about "his brand" and death threats.
Oh go fuck yourself.
posted by Yowser at 1:28 PM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oh go fuck yourself.
posted by Yowser at 1:28 PM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
I was kind of hoping to see at least one headline somewhere that said, "Bannon is Gone, I Hope He's Drifted Out to Sea," but that's probably a bit obscure for anyone not born before, say, 1970.
Timm McCoy has you covered!
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:29 PM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
Timm McCoy has you covered!
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:29 PM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
"What would you say... you do here?"
"I have this mat covered with horrific and false conclusions and I jump on it. Also I drink."
posted by orange ball at 1:29 PM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
"I have this mat covered with horrific and false conclusions and I jump on it. Also I drink."
posted by orange ball at 1:29 PM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
(He's also the oldest 18 year old I've ever seen. Yikes.)
posted by Yowser at 1:29 PM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Yowser at 1:29 PM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Vice: Trans Surgical Care in Military Is on Hold, Leaked Emails Say
posted by zachlipton at 1:30 PM on August 18, 2017 [54 favorites]
A transgender member of the US military, who was granted anonymity by Broadly, was scheduled to undergo a surgical procedure next week. However, according to the service member, the transition-related surgery—which they had been planning for several months—was abruptly canceled on Tuesday.There's been no change in official policy, but they're just carrying out what Trump tweeted anyway? What the hell?
A recent email sent to medical officials in the US military, a photograph of which was obtained by Broadly, explains why: "Surgery related to gender transition is to be held at this time, effective now, pending further guidance." In addition to the hold on new surgeries, the email mandates that "any planned surgeries for gender transition must be cancelled at this time."
posted by zachlipton at 1:30 PM on August 18, 2017 [54 favorites]
I'm just worried this is a road to a faster, stronger, better Orange Menace.
posted by angrycat at 1:31 PM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 1:31 PM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
another White House adviser said that the chief of staff “doesn’t know what [Gorka] does except go on TV sometimes.”
Doesn't Kelly know that this is one of the most important things to Trump?
posted by mrgoat at 1:34 PM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
Doesn't Kelly know that this is one of the most important things to Trump?
posted by mrgoat at 1:34 PM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
At some point, the entire White House will just be Trump, Pence, Jared and Ivanka, and Hope Hicks, and yet someone there will still be news stories citing 20 anonymous senior officials.
posted by zachlipton at 1:34 PM on August 18, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 1:34 PM on August 18, 2017 [34 favorites]
There's been no change in official policy, but they're just carrying out what Trump tweeted anyway? What the hell?
Working towards the Führer
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:34 PM on August 18, 2017 [20 favorites]
Working towards the Führer
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:34 PM on August 18, 2017 [20 favorites]
(He's also the oldest 18 year old I've ever seen. Yikes.)
Nah, that's just the suit.
Dye his hair blonde and he'd be a ringer for Joffrey, though.
posted by Autumnheart at 1:38 PM on August 18, 2017
Nah, that's just the suit.
Dye his hair blonde and he'd be a ringer for Joffrey, though.
posted by Autumnheart at 1:38 PM on August 18, 2017
Bannon Sings drunkenly.
Farewell Master; farewell, farewell.
Kellyo.
A howling Monster: a drunken Monster.
Bannon
No more dams I’le make for piss;
Nor fetch in liaring, at requiring,
Nor hate mongering, nor ass kiss;
’Ban, ’Ban, Steve Bannon,
Has a new master—Get a new man.
Freedome, high-day! high-day freedome! freedome! highday, freedome!
Gorkulo. O brave monster! lead the way. [Exeunt.]
posted by chortly at 1:38 PM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
Farewell Master; farewell, farewell.
Kellyo.
A howling Monster: a drunken Monster.
Bannon
No more dams I’le make for piss;
Nor fetch in liaring, at requiring,
Nor hate mongering, nor ass kiss;
’Ban, ’Ban, Steve Bannon,
Has a new master—Get a new man.
Freedome, high-day! high-day freedome! freedome! highday, freedome!
Gorkulo. O brave monster! lead the way. [Exeunt.]
posted by chortly at 1:38 PM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
Are we just using "racist" and "Nazi" interchangeably now?
Not particularly.
Why?
But they do tend to be related groups.
posted by Artw at 1:39 PM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
Not particularly.
Why?
But they do tend to be related groups.
posted by Artw at 1:39 PM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
Bannon Sings drunkenly.
Farewell Master; farewell, farewell.
Act 2, Scene 2 of Shakespeare's The Trumpest.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:43 PM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
Farewell Master; farewell, farewell.
Act 2, Scene 2 of Shakespeare's The Trumpest.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:43 PM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
So our late summer entertainment will be the War of Four GOPs I guess, with establishment vs Tea Party types vs both the Bannon AND Trump flavors of the batshit insane wing.
Welp, here's hoping I can barter for internet access after the debt ceiling catastrophe.
posted by jason_steakums at 1:43 PM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
Welp, here's hoping I can barter for internet access after the debt ceiling catastrophe.
posted by jason_steakums at 1:43 PM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
Well, he's managed to brand himself as a Nazi at the tender and stupid age of 18, which will dog him for the rest of his life
I look forward to hearing the excuses when some of these dipshits inevitably run for office in 15-20 years:
"Candidate Whiteman, is there any truth to the rumor that you were once a white supremacist?"
"It's true that I did engage in some Nazi-ism in my early twenties, but in my defense: it was college! And aren't you supposed to experiment while in college? Also, I only really ever dabbled. I never inhaled!"
posted by Atom Eyes at 1:45 PM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
I look forward to hearing the excuses when some of these dipshits inevitably run for office in 15-20 years:
"Candidate Whiteman, is there any truth to the rumor that you were once a white supremacist?"
"It's true that I did engage in some Nazi-ism in my early twenties, but in my defense: it was college! And aren't you supposed to experiment while in college? Also, I only really ever dabbled. I never inhaled!"
posted by Atom Eyes at 1:45 PM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Remember, this phase started at an event called "Unite The Right" intended to bring together, the racists, sexists, Nazis, Fascists and other Haters into a coordinated group... and it's doing a fine job. Although I think what some people (like one with bad hair) intended the unified group to be named "The Trumpists" (that's why so many of them wore Donald's regular golfing outfit).
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:45 PM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:45 PM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
for the sake of posterity i would like to copy and paste a chat conversation i had with my friend this morning:
"i feel like we're due for a Trumpertantrum today
somebody's gonna get fired, quit, or maybe physically ejected from the oval office idk
my spidey sense is tingling though"
and here we are.
It's not because I'm prescient but because President Trump will always do something attention grabbing after he's done something that has drawn a lot of criticism.
I bet even now President Trumps's got Seb Gorka in his reserves, ready to thrust him out into the merciless world the next time the President is criticized by literally everyone except the Nazis.
posted by Tevin at 1:46 PM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
"i feel like we're due for a Trumpertantrum today
somebody's gonna get fired, quit, or maybe physically ejected from the oval office idk
my spidey sense is tingling though"
and here we are.
It's not because I'm prescient but because President Trump will always do something attention grabbing after he's done something that has drawn a lot of criticism.
I bet even now President Trumps's got Seb Gorka in his reserves, ready to thrust him out into the merciless world the next time the President is criticized by literally everyone except the Nazis.
posted by Tevin at 1:46 PM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
Bannon Sings drunkenly.
Farewell Master; farewell, farewell.
Act 2, Scene 2 of Shakespeare's The Trumpest.
Exit, pursued by a beer.
posted by Behemoth at 1:47 PM on August 18, 2017 [22 favorites]
Farewell Master; farewell, farewell.
Act 2, Scene 2 of Shakespeare's The Trumpest.
Exit, pursued by a beer.
posted by Behemoth at 1:47 PM on August 18, 2017 [22 favorites]
Act 2, Scene 2 of Shakespeare's The Trumpest.
With Calibannon we can fully understand "My man-monster hath downed his tongue in sack"
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:47 PM on August 18, 2017 [18 favorites]
With Calibannon we can fully understand "My man-monster hath downed his tongue in sack"
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:47 PM on August 18, 2017 [18 favorites]
I wrote "Looking for Apologies in Trump's Tweets" back in January.
TL/DR: He sort of apologized on occasions, e.g., when his fans didn't get to see him on the Morning Show, for example.
Mostly, it's just demands that others apologize to him.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:47 PM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
TL/DR: He sort of apologized on occasions, e.g., when his fans didn't get to see him on the Morning Show, for example.
Mostly, it's just demands that others apologize to him.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:47 PM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
And by "experiment" we mean "deliberately run people over with cars". Tons of people join Casual Murder Club in college. /s
posted by Autumnheart at 1:48 PM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Autumnheart at 1:48 PM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
"It's true that I did engage in some Nazi-ism in my early twenties, but in my defense: it was college! And aren't you supposed to experiment while in college? Also, I only really ever dabbled. I never inhaled!"
Well, it doesn't seem to have hurt the founder of IKEA; I think there are other people who were right-wing extremists in their youth and ended up being accepted as respectable after making the right contrite noises.
posted by acb at 1:49 PM on August 18, 2017
Well, it doesn't seem to have hurt the founder of IKEA; I think there are other people who were right-wing extremists in their youth and ended up being accepted as respectable after making the right contrite noises.
posted by acb at 1:49 PM on August 18, 2017
We're using Nazi now to refer to open supporters of Nazism marching and killing people in the streets, like the President and the declared Nazis in his administration. It's also acceptable to just use the word Nazi for Nazi collaborators, like John Kelly and most of the cabinet. It's not a stretch at all.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:49 PM on August 18, 2017 [37 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:49 PM on August 18, 2017 [37 favorites]
Someone call for a NEW THREAD?
(It's crisp and clean, no caffeine.)
posted by darkstar at 1:50 PM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
(It's crisp and clean, no caffeine.)
posted by darkstar at 1:50 PM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
Are we just using "racist" and "Nazi" interchangeably now?
Dunno about here on MeFi – but, yeah, that's the usage that seems to be taking over, especially since Charlottesville.
I think there are two reasons:
One: people are looking for the strongest possible terms in order to express their disgust – and even among racist groups, the Nazis were uniquely vile.
Two: there's an explicit political and fascist element to the racist movement in America at the moment. A "racist", in common parlance, is "just" someone who is prejudiced against other races, uses racial slurs, and so on. You know – the rhetorical shithead uncle. But the "alt-right" is more than that: they seek political power, in fact they seek the ultimate political power, and they have, at least temporarily, succeeded.
They aren't just shitty-uncle racists. They aren't even "just" violent skinheads operating in the shadows. They're out in the open, and they're engaged in an organized, successful project to plant their cancer in the very highest halls of power. They aren't just wielding slurs or baseball bats. They are wielding the power of the government.
So, yeah: they're fuckin' Nazis. As others have said, if it steps like a goose...
posted by escape from the potato planet at 1:53 PM on August 18, 2017 [31 favorites]
Dunno about here on MeFi – but, yeah, that's the usage that seems to be taking over, especially since Charlottesville.
I think there are two reasons:
One: people are looking for the strongest possible terms in order to express their disgust – and even among racist groups, the Nazis were uniquely vile.
Two: there's an explicit political and fascist element to the racist movement in America at the moment. A "racist", in common parlance, is "just" someone who is prejudiced against other races, uses racial slurs, and so on. You know – the rhetorical shithead uncle. But the "alt-right" is more than that: they seek political power, in fact they seek the ultimate political power, and they have, at least temporarily, succeeded.
They aren't just shitty-uncle racists. They aren't even "just" violent skinheads operating in the shadows. They're out in the open, and they're engaged in an organized, successful project to plant their cancer in the very highest halls of power. They aren't just wielding slurs or baseball bats. They are wielding the power of the government.
So, yeah: they're fuckin' Nazis. As others have said, if it steps like a goose...
posted by escape from the potato planet at 1:53 PM on August 18, 2017 [31 favorites]
Wants a more loving America, drives real fast, uses Oxford comma.
3/3, Junior. Well done.
Drives real fast, uses Oxford comma and is on the right side of history.
Yes, I proofread that before I hit post.
posted by Uncle Ira at 1:53 PM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
3/3, Junior. Well done.
Drives real fast, uses Oxford comma and is on the right side of history.
Yes, I proofread that before I hit post.
posted by Uncle Ira at 1:53 PM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
From the beginning I've had this weird vague association between Bannon and Rodin's sculpture of Balzac.
I believe when referring to Bannon, the term you are looking for is 'ball-sac'.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:55 PM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
I believe when referring to Bannon, the term you are looking for is 'ball-sac'.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:55 PM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
I think there are two reasons:
A third reason is that this bunch was for real sieg-heil-ing and carrying swastikas around and screaming about Jews.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:55 PM on August 18, 2017 [20 favorites]
A third reason is that this bunch was for real sieg-heil-ing and carrying swastikas around and screaming about Jews.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:55 PM on August 18, 2017 [20 favorites]
McSweeney's: AS YOUR DOCTOR, I AM PROTESTING THE REMOVAL OF YOUR TUMOR BECAUSE I DON’T WANT TO ERASE YOUR MEDICAL HISTORY
posted by happyroach at 2:00 PM on August 18, 2017 [41 favorites]
posted by happyroach at 2:00 PM on August 18, 2017 [41 favorites]
Bannon has resting where’s-the-scotch? face.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:55 PM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 2:55 PM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
Yes.
posted by Artw at 3:10 PM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Artw at 3:10 PM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
Alex Jones Comes to Seattle, Rants on Street Corner, Gets Doused with Coffee by "Vicious Leftists"
Typo? Did they mean viscous lefties?
posted by srboisvert at 3:13 PM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Typo? Did they mean viscous lefties?
posted by srboisvert at 3:13 PM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
This town has a Starbucks on every block, Righties.
posted by Artw at 3:14 PM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 3:14 PM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
(btw, does anyone else feel like it's kind of gross to have an Evangelical Advisory Board in the first place?)
Is this a new thing, or did Bush/Reagan or even Clinton/Obama have those, albeit perhaps less stacked with fire-breathing headbangers?
posted by acb at 4:10 PM on August 18, 2017
Is this a new thing, or did Bush/Reagan or even Clinton/Obama have those, albeit perhaps less stacked with fire-breathing headbangers?
posted by acb at 4:10 PM on August 18, 2017
I'm okay with using "Nazi" and "white ethno-nationalist fascist" interchangeably.
posted by EarBucket at 4:18 PM on August 18, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by EarBucket at 4:18 PM on August 18, 2017 [10 favorites]
Well, he's managed to brand himself as a Nazi at the tender and stupid age of 18, which will dog him for the rest of his life, if he's unlucky. Good luck in anything other than wingnut welfare, kid; that resume is going straight in the trash anywhere that does a cursory google search on you.
Yeah that is really likely. If he does have a change of heart, though, there is Life After Hate, an NGO of former Nazis trying to help kids like this turn their shit around, and they've been having some success. So he can either stay a Nazi, be that guy trying to hide his Nazi past, or be an ex-Nazi trying to de-Nazi other Nazis. Maybe it won't help his employment prospects, maybe it will, but it's at least a chance at undoing a little bit of the harm done.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 5:40 PM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
Yeah that is really likely. If he does have a change of heart, though, there is Life After Hate, an NGO of former Nazis trying to help kids like this turn their shit around, and they've been having some success. So he can either stay a Nazi, be that guy trying to hide his Nazi past, or be an ex-Nazi trying to de-Nazi other Nazis. Maybe it won't help his employment prospects, maybe it will, but it's at least a chance at undoing a little bit of the harm done.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 5:40 PM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
Metafilter: less stacked with fire-breathing headbangers.
posted by riverlife at 7:36 PM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by riverlife at 7:36 PM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
The codes in his biscuit probably don't authenticate.
Did they ever, for any president? Who would know besides some crypto tech and a second checker, and maybe a supervisor? Is there an independent audit that could get the techs so fucking fired? I wonder what that process is like.
posted by ctmf at 8:11 PM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Did they ever, for any president? Who would know besides some crypto tech and a second checker, and maybe a supervisor? Is there an independent audit that could get the techs so fucking fired? I wonder what that process is like.
posted by ctmf at 8:11 PM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Devonian: "Even so, it's very unlikely that the format refresh so many wanted and still want to happen, a female Prez, will happen this time round."
Geez how far down the succession ladder do you have to get before it isn't an old white guy let alone a woman?
Well, according to Wikipedia, Alexander Acosta (at 11)'s parents were Cuban (White in the US?). Ben Carson is 13th. The first woman is the ineligible Elaine Chao who would have been at 14 and then Betsy DeVos is the first eligible woman at 16. Elaine Duke, at 18, despite the red link on the list does have a wiki page; but it is only 129 words. Not too surprisingly none of the people on the list is a member of more than one minority group. And Paul Ryan is the youngest at 47; the oldest is 83 year old Orrin Hatch.
lalex: "(btw, does anyone else feel like it's kind of gross to have an Evangelical Advisory Board in the first place?)"
It could be good in theory. If either this board was made up of a wide range of religions (and I'm not talking 32 different flavours of Protestant + Catholics and Jews) or there were myriad boards representing different religions. But I'm guessing neither of these things describes the current setup.
posted by Mitheral at 9:28 PM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Geez how far down the succession ladder do you have to get before it isn't an old white guy let alone a woman?
Well, according to Wikipedia, Alexander Acosta (at 11)'s parents were Cuban (White in the US?). Ben Carson is 13th. The first woman is the ineligible Elaine Chao who would have been at 14 and then Betsy DeVos is the first eligible woman at 16. Elaine Duke, at 18, despite the red link on the list does have a wiki page; but it is only 129 words. Not too surprisingly none of the people on the list is a member of more than one minority group. And Paul Ryan is the youngest at 47; the oldest is 83 year old Orrin Hatch.
lalex: "(btw, does anyone else feel like it's kind of gross to have an Evangelical Advisory Board in the first place?)"
It could be good in theory. If either this board was made up of a wide range of religions (and I'm not talking 32 different flavours of Protestant + Catholics and Jews) or there were myriad boards representing different religions. But I'm guessing neither of these things describes the current setup.
posted by Mitheral at 9:28 PM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
despite the red link on the list does have a wiki page
FYI, you're mixing Simple English and English Wikipedia pages. She doesn't yet have a Simple English page.
posted by dhartung at 10:22 PM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
FYI, you're mixing Simple English and English Wikipedia pages. She doesn't yet have a Simple English page.
posted by dhartung at 10:22 PM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trump's last four weeks summarized by CNN. Sort of a recap of this thread, but still exhausting.
posted by craniac at 10:44 AM on August 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by craniac at 10:44 AM on August 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
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posted by OverlappingElvis at 12:43 PM on August 11, 2017 [27 favorites]