Twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom!
August 27, 2017 6:52 PM Subscribe
Another busy week for the President: on the eve of Hurricane Harvey slamming into the Texas coast, Trump pardoned Arpaio, and banned transgender people from future military enlistment, but has difficulty staying on message as historic flooding threatens Texas. Meanwhile, the Russian collusion probe proceeds apace, as additional subpoenas are issued for testimony, while Gorka wins the weekly White House purge lottery.
He's made me like Texas more, and not just the fancy Austin bits.
posted by Artw at 6:59 PM on August 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:59 PM on August 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
Following up on convos in the last thread around voter activism, two useful links for voting rights news and activism
Southern Coalition for Social Justice
Brennan Center for Justice at NYU School of Law
posted by spamandkimchi at 6:59 PM on August 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
Southern Coalition for Social Justice
Brennan Center for Justice at NYU School of Law
posted by spamandkimchi at 6:59 PM on August 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
It's an amazing time we live in when the topic of a special investigation into the President and his team's dealings with Russia warranting subpoenas isn't even in the top 10 headlines of the week.
posted by splen at 6:59 PM on August 27, 2017 [72 favorites]
posted by splen at 6:59 PM on August 27, 2017 [72 favorites]
Behemoth, oh, yes, that sums things up very nicely.
posted by StrawberryPie at 7:00 PM on August 27, 2017
posted by StrawberryPie at 7:00 PM on August 27, 2017
The title is bad but Vox have an actually decent article explaining what AntiFi is actually about for the norms. “They have no allegiance to liberal democracy”: an expert on antifa explains the group
The sort of militant anti-fascism that antifa represents reemerged in postwar Europe in Britain, where fascists had broad rights to organize and demonstrate. You started to see these groups spring up in the 1940s and ’50s and ’60s and ’70s. You saw similar movements in Germany in the ’80s around the time the Berlin Wall falls, when a wave of neo-Nazism rolled across the country targeting immigrants. There, as elsewhere, leftist groups emerged as tools of self-defense. The whole point was to stare down these fascist groups in the street and stop them by force if necessary.posted by Space Coyote at 7:02 PM on August 27, 2017 [33 favorites]
These groups in the ’80s adopted the name antifa, and it eventually spread to the United States in the late ’80s and into the ’90s. Originally, it was known as the Anti-Racist Action Network. That kind of faded in the mid-2000s; the recent wave we’re seeing in the US developed out of it, but has taken on more of the name and the kind of aesthetics of the European movement.
Welcome to Thread number 129.
You have been inside a POTUS45 thread for 320 days.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:16 PM on August 27, 2017 [146 favorites]
You have been inside a POTUS45 thread for 320 days.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:16 PM on August 27, 2017 [146 favorites]
You have been inside a POTUS45 thread for 320 days.
it is pitch dark. you are likely to be eaten by a grue.
posted by murphy slaw at 7:20 PM on August 27, 2017 [211 favorites]
it is pitch dark. you are likely to be eaten by a grue.
posted by murphy slaw at 7:20 PM on August 27, 2017 [211 favorites]
At this point I'm genuinely surprised that he hasn't referred to the Texas flooding as fake news.
posted by aramaic at 7:24 PM on August 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by aramaic at 7:24 PM on August 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
it is pitch dark. you are likely to be eaten by a grue.
but no longer likely to be eaten by a Gorka.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:24 PM on August 27, 2017 [38 favorites]
but no longer likely to be eaten by a Gorka.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:24 PM on August 27, 2017 [38 favorites]
Surely THIS thread
posted by DoctorFedora at 7:25 PM on August 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by DoctorFedora at 7:25 PM on August 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
i'm really going to miss GORKA on chapo
posted by entropicamericana at 7:28 PM on August 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 7:28 PM on August 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
i'm really going to miss GORKA on chapo
Adomian/Gorka posted a wonderful send-off on instagram.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:32 PM on August 27, 2017 [26 favorites]
Adomian/Gorka posted a wonderful send-off on instagram.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:32 PM on August 27, 2017 [26 favorites]
I've been so obsessed lately with this dysfunctional power struggle where like all the big factions are fighting and there's this weird incest stuff and these creepy evil dudes behind the scenes manipulating things and everyone is ignoring the threat of environmental catastrophe and the people who act right and should be in charge aren't and instead it's just demagogues and crazy people all the way down and I'm like what will it take to get these fuckers out of power but the people who are left are all busy arguing over stuff that's important but ultimately trivial in the face of the greater evil threatening to upend everything.
Oh yeah, and Game of Thrones is on tonight!
posted by supercrayon at 7:32 PM on August 27, 2017 [76 favorites]
Oh yeah, and Game of Thrones is on tonight!
posted by supercrayon at 7:32 PM on August 27, 2017 [76 favorites]
For reference, Barack Obama's twitter feed today makes no mention of political enemies, book shilling, or "fake news."
It does, however, thank First Responders and the people who are helping others in Texas, reminds us that mutual support is a core value, and suggests followers donate to the Red Cross.
posted by darkstar at 7:40 PM on August 27, 2017 [86 favorites]
It does, however, thank First Responders and the people who are helping others in Texas, reminds us that mutual support is a core value, and suggests followers donate to the Red Cross.
posted by darkstar at 7:40 PM on August 27, 2017 [86 favorites]
I just noticed my typo and all I can say is I've typed MeFi so many times that I inadvertently crated an anti-MeFi Action movement based on muscle memory.
posted by Space Coyote at 8:04 PM on August 27, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by Space Coyote at 8:04 PM on August 27, 2017 [23 favorites]
Mod note: As in the last thread, general hurricane news can go in the hurricane thread; Trump + hurricane news can still be in here.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 8:14 PM on August 27, 2017
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 8:14 PM on August 27, 2017
there are some antifa on MeFi, but you go to one of their meetups and it turns out it's about favorites, which is why they were pronouncing 'antifa' so weirdly.
posted by fleacircus at 8:16 PM on August 27, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by fleacircus at 8:16 PM on August 27, 2017 [20 favorites]
So is there any democracy or republic which seems to have a handle on the news media, of whose news media isn't just there to stand behind whoever provides the biggest spectacle?
posted by maxwelton at 8:16 PM on August 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by maxwelton at 8:16 PM on August 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
> Welcome to Thread number 129.
> Surely THIS thread
Geeze, having just finished reading Three Body Problem (Liu Cixin, 2015), these two comments just gave me the involuntary shivers.
posted by porpoise at 8:19 PM on August 27, 2017 [17 favorites]
> Surely THIS thread
Geeze, having just finished reading Three Body Problem (Liu Cixin, 2015), these two comments just gave me the involuntary shivers.
posted by porpoise at 8:19 PM on August 27, 2017 [17 favorites]
> I inadvertently crated an anti-MeFi Action movement based on muscle memory.
Antifa Antifi.
posted by porpoise at 8:21 PM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by porpoise at 8:21 PM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Josh Marshall fills in a bit more on the Trump Tower Moscow situation (as reported by the Post here and mentioned in the tail of the last thread). He'd like well-deserved credit for noting that TPM reported on the deal several weeks ago.
He also points out, among other insights, that it's a big deal that the Post story adds the detail that Michael Cohen was the main person negotiating the Moscow deal. That's not surprising, but it means Cohen was acting as a spokesman for Trump-the-candidate at the same time he was negotiating a Russian deal for Trump-the-businessman.
posted by zachlipton at 8:23 PM on August 27, 2017 [48 favorites]
He also points out, among other insights, that it's a big deal that the Post story adds the detail that Michael Cohen was the main person negotiating the Moscow deal. That's not surprising, but it means Cohen was acting as a spokesman for Trump-the-candidate at the same time he was negotiating a Russian deal for Trump-the-businessman.
posted by zachlipton at 8:23 PM on August 27, 2017 [48 favorites]
I went out to the Berkeley counter-protest today. It was pretty great; there was a LOT of black-block, but they seemed pretty in sync with the crowd, and were mainly doing things like draining police barricades of their water, and creating free access to the park. Previously, the police had been thoroughly searching everyone entering the park, and arrested about ten people for 'violations' of the rather stringent rules for entering the park - one dude for having a mask in his bag, another woman for having a dog. Shane Bauer posted a video asking a cop why they were arresting the mask dude while treating the right wingers with kid gloves...
There were a couple scuffles when the alt-right people actually showed up; a bunch of black block people chased them down a side street, and apparently punched one of them a few times, before the cops intervened with tear gas, and took the right wingers away in zip ties (apparently to 'rescue' them, according to the SF gate).
Today and yesterday, the alt-right people seem to be trying to push this "Hey, man, we just want to show up and have a civil discussion" schtick, though I think most people have the perspective of "Hey, we saw your vile bullshit in Charlottesville, and from your leadership directly in the Vice doc, and you can crypto your fascism right back to a dark hole you crawled out of."
And all coverage of the SF/Berkeley rallies has been subsumed by news of the hurricane and the boxing match, so it isn't doing much in the national conversation, I think.
For my part, I'm settling into the perspective that worrying about free speech protections is a problem for the government, and it's meanwhile my active duty to speak out against and shout down the nazis wherever I can.
posted by kaibutsu at 8:31 PM on August 27, 2017 [87 favorites]
There were a couple scuffles when the alt-right people actually showed up; a bunch of black block people chased them down a side street, and apparently punched one of them a few times, before the cops intervened with tear gas, and took the right wingers away in zip ties (apparently to 'rescue' them, according to the SF gate).
Today and yesterday, the alt-right people seem to be trying to push this "Hey, man, we just want to show up and have a civil discussion" schtick, though I think most people have the perspective of "Hey, we saw your vile bullshit in Charlottesville, and from your leadership directly in the Vice doc, and you can crypto your fascism right back to a dark hole you crawled out of."
And all coverage of the SF/Berkeley rallies has been subsumed by news of the hurricane and the boxing match, so it isn't doing much in the national conversation, I think.
For my part, I'm settling into the perspective that worrying about free speech protections is a problem for the government, and it's meanwhile my active duty to speak out against and shout down the nazis wherever I can.
posted by kaibutsu at 8:31 PM on August 27, 2017 [87 favorites]
Lots of "liberals" revealed themselves today too. Saw someone I follow on Twitter in the Toronto media world quote tweet Jonathan Kay tut tutting Berkeley, and if you know anything about Jonathan Kay... well, I unfollowed her. Ain't nobody got time for that.
posted by Yowser at 8:48 PM on August 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 8:48 PM on August 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
Alright, the sun turns black, Texas drowns, how much more does God have to do before Trump gets the message that he's not wanted?
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 9:04 PM on August 27, 2017 [84 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 9:04 PM on August 27, 2017 [84 favorites]
@NatashaBertrand: Hm. WH referring questions about the Trump Tower Moscow deal to Michael Cohen's attorney.
That's an unusual approach to respond to questions about a business deal, to demand everyone talk to the businessman's lawyer's lawyer. I fear we're eventually going to get to the point where every attorney in the country is representing another Trump lawyer in a massive chain of legal nightmares.
posted by zachlipton at 9:08 PM on August 27, 2017 [43 favorites]
That's an unusual approach to respond to questions about a business deal, to demand everyone talk to the businessman's lawyer's lawyer. I fear we're eventually going to get to the point where every attorney in the country is representing another Trump lawyer in a massive chain of legal nightmares.
posted by zachlipton at 9:08 PM on August 27, 2017 [43 favorites]
And he pardoned Arpaio, who promptly went on Alex Jones for a gloat. Many fine friends he has. While this is a clear signal to racists everywhere that they won't do time for him, there's a also the signal that he's willing to pardon his buddies. So when Mueller comes sniffing around, keep your trap shut and Donnie will look after you.
He even asked if he can pardon himself. I haven't really heard a clear answer on this, except it's technically possible, but such an egregious misuse of power that nobody with any grace, dignity or honour would ever do it. So he'll give it a try.
posted by adept256 at 9:09 PM on August 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
He even asked if he can pardon himself. I haven't really heard a clear answer on this, except it's technically possible, but such an egregious misuse of power that nobody with any grace, dignity or honour would ever do it. So he'll give it a try.
posted by adept256 at 9:09 PM on August 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
Alright, the sun turns black, Texas drowns, how much more does God have to do before Trump gets the message that he's not wanted?
Thunderbolt of lightning? Very very frightening!
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:11 PM on August 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Thunderbolt of lightning? Very very frightening!
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:11 PM on August 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Alright, the sun turns black, Texas drowns, how much more does God have to do before Trump gets the message that he's not wanted?
It could rain Pepe's and he'd just be disappointed he can't play golf that day.
posted by adept256 at 9:12 PM on August 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
It could rain Pepe's and he'd just be disappointed he can't play golf that day.
posted by adept256 at 9:12 PM on August 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oh man the Kay quoter makes an appearance in that thread about Trump's lawyer's lawyer's lawyer. Small world.
posted by Yowser at 9:12 PM on August 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Yowser at 9:12 PM on August 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Wow, I knew Arpaio was bad, but I had no idea he was this bad...
Wait, do people actually know how evil this man is? by Nathan J. Robinson
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:21 PM on August 27, 2017 [143 favorites]
Wait, do people actually know how evil this man is? by Nathan J. Robinson
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:21 PM on August 27, 2017 [143 favorites]
At the MTV VMAs: Robert Lee IV introduces Susan Bro, Heather Heyer's mother.
(Cynical Viacom self-service? Of course - all good MeFites know that even Gandhi and Jesus were corporate stooges. Still, a tear came to my felt eye.)
posted by Guy Smiley at 9:21 PM on August 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
(Cynical Viacom self-service? Of course - all good MeFites know that even Gandhi and Jesus were corporate stooges. Still, a tear came to my felt eye.)
posted by Guy Smiley at 9:21 PM on August 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
Outstanding link, OnceUponATime...an excellent, definitive write-up on Arpaio.
If you could read only one chronicle of the merciless reign of that power-corrupt, evil man, it's hard to beat.
posted by darkstar at 9:35 PM on August 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
If you could read only one chronicle of the merciless reign of that power-corrupt, evil man, it's hard to beat.
posted by darkstar at 9:35 PM on August 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
This isn't a good look for our side: Reveal host Al Letson shields man from beating at anti-hate rally (Reveal)
Letson recounted what happened next, a scene he also caught on video: Right-wing organizer Joey Gibson arrived at the park shortly after 1:30 p.m. He and a couple of his supporters were chased by what appeared to be antifa members, who began to throw things at him.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:36 PM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
In Letson’s video, law enforcement officers can be seen standing on the sidelines, a protest policing strategy criticized during the violent April “Battle of Berkeley” protests and in Charlottesville, Virginia, earlier this month. Gibson continues through a line of police. Other videos from the scene show him being handcuffed.
Meanwhile, Letson said, a man who appeared to be one of Gibson’s supporters was also chased by 20 to 30 antifa protesters, who began to kick and hit him with sticks.
Letson dove on top of the man, suffering a few collateral blows but no injuries. Reveal does not know the identity of the man Letson protected, or what happened to him afterward because tear gas was released, quickly dispersing the crowd.
Wow, I knew Arpaio was bad, but I had no idea he was this bad...
Wait, do people actually know how evil this man is? by Nathan J. Robinson
All of these stories lately about the Arpaio pardon seem to leave it at some form of "allegedly mistreated inmates" and that's maybe the most egregious, immoral act of soft pedaling in the interest of fucking both-sidesism I've seen in quite some time. Like you could come away from the majority of news coverage of the pardon lately absolutely thinking it's just some liberal overreaction to some sheriff who was tough on crime, and he is actually a goddamn monster. I'm glad to see this article, but it's insane that it's such an outlier.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:40 PM on August 27, 2017 [82 favorites]
Wait, do people actually know how evil this man is? by Nathan J. Robinson
All of these stories lately about the Arpaio pardon seem to leave it at some form of "allegedly mistreated inmates" and that's maybe the most egregious, immoral act of soft pedaling in the interest of fucking both-sidesism I've seen in quite some time. Like you could come away from the majority of news coverage of the pardon lately absolutely thinking it's just some liberal overreaction to some sheriff who was tough on crime, and he is actually a goddamn monster. I'm glad to see this article, but it's insane that it's such an outlier.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:40 PM on August 27, 2017 [82 favorites]
My end of the protest in Berkeley was super chill - kids, dogs, rainbows, bubbles. I have to say I was disappointed with turnout though. Not enough people to completely drown out the bad parts, Boston style. The 'ignore them' contingent was pretty damn strong among Berkeley liberals...the 'stay home' messaging from City of Berkeley and UC didn't help either. Good that some showed up though and it went pretty well.
posted by The Toad at 9:42 PM on August 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by The Toad at 9:42 PM on August 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
This isn't a good look for our side:
I want to make sure that I understand the suggestion that a person shielding another person from a beating is somehow a negative thing. In any way.
I really want to make sure I understood the inference.
posted by Johnny Hazard at 9:51 PM on August 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
I want to make sure that I understand the suggestion that a person shielding another person from a beating is somehow a negative thing. In any way.
I really want to make sure I understood the inference.
posted by Johnny Hazard at 9:51 PM on August 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
Are we back to being against Nazi-punching? Let's see how long that lasts.
posted by um at 9:58 PM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by um at 9:58 PM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm referring to the 20–30 antifa chasing down and beating someone.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:58 PM on August 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:58 PM on August 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
It illustrates the importance of not simply acquiescing to the right-wing attempt to make "Antifa" synonymous with progressives, liberals, or the Left in general.
The enemy of my enemy might still be an asshole.
posted by darkstar at 10:03 PM on August 27, 2017 [32 favorites]
The enemy of my enemy might still be an asshole.
posted by darkstar at 10:03 PM on August 27, 2017 [32 favorites]
Kyle Swenson, WaPo: Black-clad antifa attack right-wing demonstrators in Berkeley
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:05 PM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Their faces hidden behind black bandannas and hoodies, about a 100 anarchists and antifa — “anti-fascist” — barreled into a protest Sunday afternoon in Berkeley’s Martin Luther King Jr. Civic Center Park.As I said, not a good look.
Jumping over plastic and concrete barriers, the group melted into a larger crowd of around 2,000 who had marched peacefully throughout the sunny afternoon for a “Rally Against Hate” gathering.
Shortly after, violence began to flare: a pepper-spray wielding Trump supporter was smacked to the ground with homemade shields. Another was attacked by five black-clad antifas, each windmilling kicks and punches into a man desperately trying to protect himself. A conservative group leader retreated for safety behind a line of riot police as marchers chucked water bottles, shot off pepper spray, and screamed “fascist go home!”
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:05 PM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
bell hooks on the State Of Feminism and How to Move Forward Under Trump (Bust):
I felt very strongly that there’s been a feminist backlash going on for some time. Why are we shocked? I wasn’t shocked. Patriarchy has not been deeply challenged enough and changed. It was just about patriarchy getting a publicly sanctioned voice and silencing a feminist voice, as if there was this war that was going on. And then patriarchy could feel like, “We are going to win this war.”posted by Joseph Gurl at 10:05 PM on August 27, 2017 [41 favorites]
It’s funny because one of my best women’s studies colleagues here at Berea would always be frustrated with me because I would tell her that I felt very strongly that sexism and misogyny actually posed a greater threat to black women and all women than racism. She just thought, “Well, that’s ridiculous.” She’s black. The night of the election she called me and was like, “You’ve been right all along.”
To be fair, Trump told us what we were in for when he released the Trump/Pence campaign logo.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:12 PM on August 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 10:12 PM on August 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Jesus, that story about Arpaio is definitely worth a read, as long as you have a strong stomach.
posted by benzenedream at 10:27 PM on August 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by benzenedream at 10:27 PM on August 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
The whole point of leftists is to absorb punches! They can't provide punches, that's against the order of things! Jesus, if leftists are allowed to punch who knows where it will end! I mean, shit, asshole racist white men might be inconvenienced and God knows we can't allow THAT.
posted by aramaic at 10:38 PM on August 27, 2017 [64 favorites]
posted by aramaic at 10:38 PM on August 27, 2017 [64 favorites]
His name should be a pejorative. Or a new movie genre. Bad cops that stay bad and get rewarded like at the end of Star Wars.
posted by rhizome at 10:41 PM on August 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by rhizome at 10:41 PM on August 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
As I said, not a good look.
Too late to worry about how it looks. More and more it seems that there are only either fascists, or Americans. Sadly the time is nigh to pick one, or the other.
posted by HyperBlue at 10:41 PM on August 27, 2017 [24 favorites]
Too late to worry about how it looks. More and more it seems that there are only either fascists, or Americans. Sadly the time is nigh to pick one, or the other.
posted by HyperBlue at 10:41 PM on August 27, 2017 [24 favorites]
In fact, now that I think of it, the short movie China Lake (YouTube [35min]) would have to be one of the primordial films of the Arpaio genre.
posted by rhizome at 10:46 PM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 10:46 PM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
I felt very strongly that there’s been a feminist backlash going on for some time.
If there is - and I'm certainly not going to argue with bell hooks on that - then it's one of many backlashes. Like, I didn't think antisemitism had ever gone away, but I wouldn't have believed that you'd have young men marching under Nazi banners, that you'd have White House officials talking darkly about "globalists", and that it would be necessary to scrutinise the President's own statements for antisemitic dog whistles. The same goes for prejudice against immigrants, Latinos, and other groups. It doesn't seem dissimilar to what's going on in many places overseas, either. I don't know what could account for this broad-based global rise in prejudice and xenophobia; it has a very 1920s feel to it and it scares me.
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:48 PM on August 27, 2017 [21 favorites]
If there is - and I'm certainly not going to argue with bell hooks on that - then it's one of many backlashes. Like, I didn't think antisemitism had ever gone away, but I wouldn't have believed that you'd have young men marching under Nazi banners, that you'd have White House officials talking darkly about "globalists", and that it would be necessary to scrutinise the President's own statements for antisemitic dog whistles. The same goes for prejudice against immigrants, Latinos, and other groups. It doesn't seem dissimilar to what's going on in many places overseas, either. I don't know what could account for this broad-based global rise in prejudice and xenophobia; it has a very 1920s feel to it and it scares me.
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:48 PM on August 27, 2017 [21 favorites]
Has the possibility been discussed that some of those black-clad antifa members might not really be antifa, but people who are tring to paint the left/antifa as violent anti-Trumpists? Such a thing would be entirely plausible as a Russian op. I don't know if it's been disproven, though.
posted by StrawberryPie at 10:55 PM on August 27, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by StrawberryPie at 10:55 PM on August 27, 2017 [19 favorites]
I've seen speculation that lefty instigators are plants for years, at least since Occupy was going on.
posted by rhizome at 10:58 PM on August 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 10:58 PM on August 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
(Clarifying comment: the above is not a troll. I'm genuinely curious if it's clear that the violence wasn't actually committed by people pretending to be antifa/leftists/whatever.)
posted by StrawberryPie at 10:58 PM on August 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by StrawberryPie at 10:58 PM on August 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
It happened in Montreal. Montreal police tried to start a riot dressed as black bloc. (which is why I have a LOT of distrust of black bloc tactics)
posted by Yowser at 10:58 PM on August 27, 2017 [44 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 10:58 PM on August 27, 2017 [44 favorites]
As I said, not a good look.
Funny how it's all passive voice when the right does it, and it's all clear-as-day blame when the left does it. "Violence breaks out" and "a death occurred" in Charlottesville versus here where suddenly violence is a thing that is performed by actual people.
In any case, it's hard for me to get worked up about some people whose entire worldview is about the promotion of violence getting a thrashing; let the rest of the "I didn't want anyone to know I was racist" cowards understand that this shit has consequences in the real world. I'd love a no-violence way out of this, but I do not think that "we do no violence while they terrorize and murder us" fits that description.
Has the possibility been discussed that some of those black-clad antifa members might not really be antifa, but people who are tring to paint the left/antifa as violent anti-Trumpists? Such a thing would be entirely plausible as a Russian op.
Russian op? I think you're thinking too big. If the antifa there were agents provocateurs, it's almost certainly just Three Percenters or the local PD or something. Cops are big on that stuff, at least since Occupy (and probably before, but I'm a little too young to know). At the moment I don't know that there's any reason to think that, though. It's certainly feasible that it's just angry people from our side.
posted by IAmUnaware at 11:01 PM on August 27, 2017 [67 favorites]
Funny how it's all passive voice when the right does it, and it's all clear-as-day blame when the left does it. "Violence breaks out" and "a death occurred" in Charlottesville versus here where suddenly violence is a thing that is performed by actual people.
In any case, it's hard for me to get worked up about some people whose entire worldview is about the promotion of violence getting a thrashing; let the rest of the "I didn't want anyone to know I was racist" cowards understand that this shit has consequences in the real world. I'd love a no-violence way out of this, but I do not think that "we do no violence while they terrorize and murder us" fits that description.
Has the possibility been discussed that some of those black-clad antifa members might not really be antifa, but people who are tring to paint the left/antifa as violent anti-Trumpists? Such a thing would be entirely plausible as a Russian op.
Russian op? I think you're thinking too big. If the antifa there were agents provocateurs, it's almost certainly just Three Percenters or the local PD or something. Cops are big on that stuff, at least since Occupy (and probably before, but I'm a little too young to know). At the moment I don't know that there's any reason to think that, though. It's certainly feasible that it's just angry people from our side.
posted by IAmUnaware at 11:01 PM on August 27, 2017 [67 favorites]
Sorry, Montebello*Article The police also apologized eventually. Video
posted by Yowser at 11:02 PM on August 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 11:02 PM on August 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
>I don't know what could account for this broad-based global rise in prejudice and xenophobia; it has a very 1920s feel to it and it scares me.
Couple guesses:
1. It never really went away.
2. People (in the US, at least) have no class consciousness
3. But they've been royally exploited and immiserated by inequality and wealth extraction
4. And they're alienated from community and "genteel" society
5. So they are (rightfully) resentful but (wrongly) blame it on immigrants, minorities, women who won't sleep with them, and "elites" (who they see as a cultural or ethnic demographic rather than a power- and wealth-monopolizing class)
(Of course there are many other contributing factors like sensationalist and nakedly profit-seeking cable news/information media, the decades-in-the-making merger of entertainment and politics (from Reagan to Schwarzenegger to Ventura to Franken), and ubiquitous social media (by which we can fulfill our need to belong to a group but that group doesn't ever have to include the people in our physical communities and we can more or less curate that its demographics at will.)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 11:04 PM on August 27, 2017 [20 favorites]
Couple guesses:
1. It never really went away.
2. People (in the US, at least) have no class consciousness
3. But they've been royally exploited and immiserated by inequality and wealth extraction
4. And they're alienated from community and "genteel" society
5. So they are (rightfully) resentful but (wrongly) blame it on immigrants, minorities, women who won't sleep with them, and "elites" (who they see as a cultural or ethnic demographic rather than a power- and wealth-monopolizing class)
(Of course there are many other contributing factors like sensationalist and nakedly profit-seeking cable news/information media, the decades-in-the-making merger of entertainment and politics (from Reagan to Schwarzenegger to Ventura to Franken), and ubiquitous social media (by which we can fulfill our need to belong to a group but that group doesn't ever have to include the people in our physical communities and we can more or less curate that its demographics at will.)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 11:04 PM on August 27, 2017 [20 favorites]
I'm genuinely curious if it's clear that the violence wasn't actually committed by people pretending to be antifa/leftists/whatever.
How would such a negative be disproven? It's unpossible.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 11:05 PM on August 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
How would such a negative be disproven? It's unpossible.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 11:05 PM on August 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
As for "Leftist violence" being used as fuel for Nazis, well, fuck that--they're going to manufacture that fuel and distort whatever happens into "Leftist violence" no matter what, so I'm all for giving them a dose of the real thing.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 11:06 PM on August 27, 2017 [42 favorites]
posted by Joseph Gurl at 11:06 PM on August 27, 2017 [42 favorites]
(Relatedly: searching twitter for "antifa russian" brings a lot of depressing results of the "the left is gasping for anything because the russian hoax is dead and so they say antifa is russian-funded/soros is funding antifa/etc variety". Can't decide whether those really are Russian accounts or just useful idiots.)
I need to stop looking at twitter
posted by StrawberryPie at 11:07 PM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
I need to stop looking at twitter
posted by StrawberryPie at 11:07 PM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
I don't really have a problem with punching Nazis. I draw the line at destroying cameras. You're doxxed, then you're doxxed, suck it up. Don't make it easy for the media to protect fascists.
Hell, the most famous video going around right now with the fight? The original videographer, Shane Bauer, has come out saying it's atrocious (in multiple increasingly frustrated tweets) that everyone has concentrated on that one five second video instead of the rest of his content from today.
posted by Yowser at 11:10 PM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Hell, the most famous video going around right now with the fight? The original videographer, Shane Bauer, has come out saying it's atrocious (in multiple increasingly frustrated tweets) that everyone has concentrated on that one five second video instead of the rest of his content from today.
posted by Yowser at 11:10 PM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Jesus, if leftists are allowed to punch who knows where it will end
A structural escalation of violence in the US right now will annihilate the left.
posted by dmh at 11:11 PM on August 27, 2017 [16 favorites]
A structural escalation of violence in the US right now will annihilate the left.
posted by dmh at 11:11 PM on August 27, 2017 [16 favorites]
@Joseph Gurl: "how would such a negative be disproven?" Well, point taken; if they were really very good agents, I guess it would be hard to disprove. I guess I was actually thinking more from the opposite direction, like some members saying they didn't recognize those who committed the violence – "they just showed up that day", that sort of thing. Not proof, I admit.
posted by StrawberryPie at 11:12 PM on August 27, 2017
posted by StrawberryPie at 11:12 PM on August 27, 2017
Exactly. Nazis are much better at violence. People calling themselves alt-right have shot or killed at least four people so far, and injured dozens. Antifa have put in a few light punches at best.
posted by Yowser at 11:14 PM on August 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 11:14 PM on August 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
And if it seems that I'm contradicting , what can I say, I'm still conflicted.
posted by Yowser at 11:14 PM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 11:14 PM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
The archly offensive nature of white supremacists begs for us to reduce their insult to our society to a binary, easy to process dilemma, which then calls for a binary response.
I might be eager to punch a Nazi - especially if he were chanting racist slogans - but I am certainly not going to mask my face, join a club-wielding mob, and run down one that's peacefully protesting, to maim or beat them to death.
There's a spectrum of violence and one thing is not like the other (though a pure pacifist might disagree). And, as long as we still have a functioning democracy, I hold out hope that vigilante mob clubbings really aren't the right way to handle it.
But yeah, if you find a Nazi spouting his racist crap, take William F. Buckley's sage advice and sock him in the goddamn face so he stays plastered.*
*Irony intended.
posted by darkstar at 11:15 PM on August 27, 2017 [20 favorites]
I might be eager to punch a Nazi - especially if he were chanting racist slogans - but I am certainly not going to mask my face, join a club-wielding mob, and run down one that's peacefully protesting, to maim or beat them to death.
There's a spectrum of violence and one thing is not like the other (though a pure pacifist might disagree). And, as long as we still have a functioning democracy, I hold out hope that vigilante mob clubbings really aren't the right way to handle it.
But yeah, if you find a Nazi spouting his racist crap, take William F. Buckley's sage advice and sock him in the goddamn face so he stays plastered.*
*Irony intended.
posted by darkstar at 11:15 PM on August 27, 2017 [20 favorites]
Apologies, I feel like the violent left thing is becoming a derail. I really was just wondering if there was evidence on this point. Maybe we should toss that question in the dustbin and move on...
note to self: bad decisions too easily made after long day. step away from the computer.
posted by StrawberryPie at 11:19 PM on August 27, 2017
note to self: bad decisions too easily made after long day. step away from the computer.
posted by StrawberryPie at 11:19 PM on August 27, 2017
I have a theory about the flags.
It's so he's never photographed without a flag in the background. Much like he was almost always in frame as he glowered behind Rodham Clinton in the debate.
posted by tilde at 11:33 PM on August 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
From The Atlantic (and previous thread)
The man with the least demonstrated policy-knowledge of any modern president frequently boasts about how smart and well-educated he is. Similarly, the man exempted from the draft because of a bone spur—either in his right foot, or his left, he’s not sure now—surrounds himself with triple the symbols of national power as his predecessors needed, and with emblems of the military that the previous strongest commanders-in-chief kept out of the seat of ultimate civilian control.
It's so he's never photographed without a flag in the background. Much like he was almost always in frame as he glowered behind Rodham Clinton in the debate.
posted by tilde at 11:33 PM on August 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
Mexico tells Trump it 'will not negotiate' on social media
11:55, August 28 2017
Mexico has told US President Donald Trump it "will not negotiate" via social media.
The message came from the Mexican government after Trump accused Mexico and Canada of being "difficult" in negotiations on changing the North American Free Trade Agreement.
"Mexico will not negotiate the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) nor any other aspect of bilateral relations through social media or news media," the Mexican Foreign Ministry said in a statement.
Sometimes 140 chrctrz aint enuf 2 negotiate a complete trade deal. #notpaying4urwallseñor
posted by tilde at 11:39 PM on August 27, 2017 [98 favorites]
I read a Twitter thread earlier - think it was about the Berkeley rally - and there was clearly an organised set of talking points in the comments:
1) The rally wasn't about white supremacy, it was anti-communist;
2) Nine of the speakers were POCs and one was trans (sic);
3) Consequently, there was no reason for lefties to try to break up the rally;
4) Lefties are violent and hate free speech.
Honestly, I think this rally was a deliberately provocative act with plausible deniability for the perpetrators. It was designed to provoke a violent response in order to support the "both sides" paradigm after Charlottesville. And it worked.
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:47 PM on August 27, 2017 [16 favorites]
1) The rally wasn't about white supremacy, it was anti-communist;
2) Nine of the speakers were POCs and one was trans (sic);
3) Consequently, there was no reason for lefties to try to break up the rally;
4) Lefties are violent and hate free speech.
Honestly, I think this rally was a deliberately provocative act with plausible deniability for the perpetrators. It was designed to provoke a violent response in order to support the "both sides" paradigm after Charlottesville. And it worked.
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:47 PM on August 27, 2017 [16 favorites]
"Mexico will not negotiate the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) nor any other aspect of bilateral relations through social media or news media," the Mexican Foreign Ministry said in a statement.
Not even on Instagram?
posted by thelonius at 12:01 AM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Not even on Instagram?
posted by thelonius at 12:01 AM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
EXILES ON PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE: HOW JARED AND IVANKA WERE REPELLED BY WASHINGTON’S ELITE
“What is off-putting about them,” one political veteran told me, “is they do not grasp their essential irrelevance. They think they are special.”
[...] In recent conversations, I’ve heard people close to President Trump wonder aloud whether it was Kushner’s team that leaked the Don junior e-mails to the Times in the first place. The implication would be that Kushner was willing to sacrifice his brother-in-law in order to distance himself from the uncomfortable reality of the meeting. There is no evidence for this. But it illustrates the tension among Donald Trump’s advisers. The pressure of the Russia investigation has created rifts among members of the Trump family and their lawyers.
[...]
The future unfolding before them looks nothing like the future they may have imagined five years ago. Ivanka may be disingenuous when she says she “didn’t ask for this,” but she is right to say that she didn’t ask for this—that is, for the actual situation in which they find themselves: powerful, in a sense, and yet ineffectual; emotionally essential to Donald Trump, but lacking the skills to assist; impossible to fire and reluctant to leave; compromised ethically and perhaps legally; and facing reputational or familial harm no matter what they decide to do.
Long but interesting read I hadn't yet seen on the threads.
posted by tilde at 12:01 AM on August 28, 2017 [38 favorites]
Exactly. Nazis are much better at violence.
Right up until they divert troops to Kiev and end up fighting a winter campaign, anyway.
posted by walrus at 12:05 AM on August 28, 2017 [43 favorites]
Right up until they divert troops to Kiev and end up fighting a winter campaign, anyway.
posted by walrus at 12:05 AM on August 28, 2017 [43 favorites]
@xtrixcyclex: "Thread 1. I learned something tonight. You can virtually shut down a #Russian troll bot trending hashtag and make the trolls back off. 2. I looked at @selectedwisdom http://dashboard.securingdemocracy.org/ and saw the trolls were going after Navarro because posobicuck tried to gotcha her. 3. I followed the hashtag and sure enough Russian troll central. So I started responding to each troll post with news in Russian. 4. I used an article about their biggest bank being kicked out of SWIFT that @20committee RTd this morning. If the trolls responded I CC'd 5. Putin. They won't respond after that. It completely shuts them down. So I did this for a while. Other were doing similar. . . . "
This sounds useful to me, but I'm not a techie. Is it worth spreading the word about?
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 12:07 AM on August 28, 2017 [62 favorites]
This sounds useful to me, but I'm not a techie. Is it worth spreading the word about?
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 12:07 AM on August 28, 2017 [62 favorites]
Mod note: A few deleted. Joseph Gurl, I'm not sure why you are sort of persistently derailing this into some sort of weird continued shade-throwing on Franken thing ("I'm sure he's a swell fellow who takes governance seriously"), but please cut it out. If there's some news about Franken that's pertinent to this thread, fine, post that , or if you have some sort of creditable sources for implying he's part of a "global rise in prejudice and xenophobia" post that, otherwise, drop it, and drop all attempts to herd this thread into topics you want to grind an axe about when we've asked you to cut that out repeatedly.
posted by taz (staff) at 12:40 AM on August 28, 2017 [55 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 12:40 AM on August 28, 2017 [55 favorites]
Long but interesting read I hadn't yet seen on the threads.
Sweet, sweet schadenfreude. They're like Trump himself: it's always been important for them to be with The Right People. And while they may have more power now, I wonder if it doesn't grate that the only people who will hobnob with them are definitely Right People--but not the sort of "Right" they aim for.
posted by Anonymous at 12:45 AM on August 28, 2017
Sweet, sweet schadenfreude. They're like Trump himself: it's always been important for them to be with The Right People. And while they may have more power now, I wonder if it doesn't grate that the only people who will hobnob with them are definitely Right People--but not the sort of "Right" they aim for.
posted by Anonymous at 12:45 AM on August 28, 2017
I've seen speculation that lefty instigators are plants for years, at least since Occupy was going on.
Go back to the early 70's when some unknown group would announce that it's time to "Free The Coca-Cola Truck!" in a lame-assed attempt to forment a riot. Undoubtedly Feds, working under Nixon "Taking the cuffs off" and "Giving them the tools to do the job"
Cointelpro was a thing.
I mentioned in a prior thread that it seems "Violence as a monopoly of The Government has been outsourced to volunteers".
posted by mikelieman at 1:20 AM on August 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
Go back to the early 70's when some unknown group would announce that it's time to "Free The Coca-Cola Truck!" in a lame-assed attempt to forment a riot. Undoubtedly Feds, working under Nixon "Taking the cuffs off" and "Giving them the tools to do the job"
Cointelpro was a thing.
I mentioned in a prior thread that it seems "Violence as a monopoly of The Government has been outsourced to volunteers".
posted by mikelieman at 1:20 AM on August 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
I went looking for some figures on this recently too - I couldn't find anything for this year apart from the antifa tumblr post which doesn't reference any left-wing violence to compare.
But this was a good overview for the last decade:
"Marilyn Mayo, senior research fellow for the Anti-Defamation League’s Center on Extremism, said that statistics show that radical leftists have been dramatically less likely to kill people than their counterparts on the opposite side of the political spectrum. Over the past decade, extremists of every stripe have killed 372 Americans. 74 percent of those killings were committed by right wing extremists. Only 2 percent of those deaths were at the hands of left wing extremists."
ref: www.adl.org/education/resources/reports/murder-and-extremism-in-the-united-states-in-2016
The linked PDF goes into the last two years in detail, is well set out and worth reading.
posted by tardigrade at 1:20 AM on August 28, 2017 [22 favorites]
But this was a good overview for the last decade:
"Marilyn Mayo, senior research fellow for the Anti-Defamation League’s Center on Extremism, said that statistics show that radical leftists have been dramatically less likely to kill people than their counterparts on the opposite side of the political spectrum. Over the past decade, extremists of every stripe have killed 372 Americans. 74 percent of those killings were committed by right wing extremists. Only 2 percent of those deaths were at the hands of left wing extremists."
ref: www.adl.org/education/resources/reports/murder-and-extremism-in-the-united-states-in-2016
The linked PDF goes into the last two years in detail, is well set out and worth reading.
posted by tardigrade at 1:20 AM on August 28, 2017 [22 favorites]
Not to abuse the edit window.
But in this case, I echo the sentiments of others. It's Nazi/Confederate/GOP/KKK vs Americans. And if you have any hesitation picking "America", then you're not one.
posted by mikelieman at 1:21 AM on August 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
But in this case, I echo the sentiments of others. It's Nazi/Confederate/GOP/KKK vs Americans. And if you have any hesitation picking "America", then you're not one.
posted by mikelieman at 1:21 AM on August 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
I don't know what it says about this past week that the new thread took me by complete surprise for the first time. I was like "It can't possibly be time...oh, over 3,000 comments already? Hunh."
posted by greermahoney at 1:22 AM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by greermahoney at 1:22 AM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
'We Are Living Through a Battle for the Soul of This Nation'
Joe Biden, The Atlantic
"The former vice president calls on Americans to do what President Trump has not."
This is good.
posted by Weeping_angel at 1:25 AM on August 28, 2017 [70 favorites]
Joe Biden, The Atlantic
"The former vice president calls on Americans to do what President Trump has not."
This is good.
posted by Weeping_angel at 1:25 AM on August 28, 2017 [70 favorites]
1) The rally wasn't about white supremacy, it was anti-communist;
In 20-fucking-17, "anti-communist" isn't a thing, and anyone hauling that out should be mocked without pity as (a) woefully out of touch with current events, (b) flat-out insane, and make sure you ask them directly whether it's (a) or (b).
posted by mikelieman at 1:27 AM on August 28, 2017 [94 favorites]
In 20-fucking-17, "anti-communist" isn't a thing, and anyone hauling that out should be mocked without pity as (a) woefully out of touch with current events, (b) flat-out insane, and make sure you ask them directly whether it's (a) or (b).
posted by mikelieman at 1:27 AM on August 28, 2017 [94 favorites]
Anti-communist has long been a dog whistle on the right to support white supremacy. It was the excuse Reagan and Thatcher gave for not isolating Apartheid-era South Africa fully.
posted by PenDevil at 1:33 AM on August 28, 2017 [46 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 1:33 AM on August 28, 2017 [46 favorites]
> 1) The rally wasn't about white supremacy, it was anti-communist;(c) they know exactly what they were saying and doing.
In 20-fucking-17, "anti-communist" isn't a thing, and anyone hauling that out should be mocked without pity as (a) woefully out of touch with current events, (b) flat-out insane, and make sure you ask them directly whether it's (a) or (b).
posted by runcifex at 1:34 AM on August 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
(c) they know exactly what they were saying and doing.
You know that. I know that. THEY know that. But do they have the honesty to say it? They say "Despair is a sin", and I choose put my faith in the hope that pretty much EVERYONE will balk on coming right out and saying (c)
But again, 20-fucking-17. THIS IS NOT NORMAL, All Bets Are Off.
posted by mikelieman at 1:37 AM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
You know that. I know that. THEY know that. But do they have the honesty to say it? They say "Despair is a sin", and I choose put my faith in the hope that pretty much EVERYONE will balk on coming right out and saying (c)
But again, 20-fucking-17. THIS IS NOT NORMAL, All Bets Are Off.
posted by mikelieman at 1:37 AM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
c) they know exactly what they were saying and doing.
Yes, of course they did. That's my point: despite being organised by the alt-right the rally's program was designed to be as inoffensive as possible while still being the sort of thing that would plausibly infuriate a stereotypical radical leftist, the sort that doesn't exist outside Garrison's cartoons. The reports they wanted are "antifa attacked a peaceful rally with ethnically diverse speakers, because antifa are radical left-wing communists and are not actually anti-racist".
posted by Joe in Australia at 1:50 AM on August 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
Yes, of course they did. That's my point: despite being organised by the alt-right the rally's program was designed to be as inoffensive as possible while still being the sort of thing that would plausibly infuriate a stereotypical radical leftist, the sort that doesn't exist outside Garrison's cartoons. The reports they wanted are "antifa attacked a peaceful rally with ethnically diverse speakers, because antifa are radical left-wing communists and are not actually anti-racist".
posted by Joe in Australia at 1:50 AM on August 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
The reports they wanted are "antifa attacked a peaceful rally with ethnically diverse speakers, because antifa are radical left-wing communists and are not actually anti-racist".
Well, that feeds the insane narrative their base buys into, but how many actually rational people buy into it?
I can answer that. MORE THAN WE'D LIKE TO BELIEVE.
Tonight I learned my in-laws, who I've had issues with and we both avoid each other as much as possible , One a NYC Transit supervisor on the electrical side, and the wife a NY telephone information op, and SHOP STEWARD both voted for Trump, and both just want the media to give him a chance.
I hadn't know that before my wife told me at dinner tonight. I wish I didn't know it, but it's a valuable insight. There's a metric fucktonne of people who SHOULD KNOW BETTER, but... I dunno... Racism is totally a possibility in this, but...
It's too fucking early for bourbon-o-clock, but 20-fucking-17, once again.
posted by mikelieman at 1:59 AM on August 28, 2017 [36 favorites]
Well, that feeds the insane narrative their base buys into, but how many actually rational people buy into it?
I can answer that. MORE THAN WE'D LIKE TO BELIEVE.
Tonight I learned my in-laws, who I've had issues with and we both avoid each other as much as possible , One a NYC Transit supervisor on the electrical side, and the wife a NY telephone information op, and SHOP STEWARD both voted for Trump, and both just want the media to give him a chance.
I hadn't know that before my wife told me at dinner tonight. I wish I didn't know it, but it's a valuable insight. There's a metric fucktonne of people who SHOULD KNOW BETTER, but... I dunno... Racism is totally a possibility in this, but...
It's too fucking early for bourbon-o-clock, but 20-fucking-17, once again.
posted by mikelieman at 1:59 AM on August 28, 2017 [36 favorites]
Nazis are much better at violence
The bigger danger is that the general public will not support or attend violent protests. Already people have expressed apprehension about going to Berkeley. If this continues, you end up with smaller, more militant protests by more marginalized people, which are easy for the state to crush.
This does not mean that violence has no place whatsoever. But it should fundamentally aim at protecting the vulnerable and undermining the powerful, rather than haphazardly chasing after people and beating them up.
posted by dmh at 3:14 AM on August 28, 2017 [17 favorites]
The bigger danger is that the general public will not support or attend violent protests. Already people have expressed apprehension about going to Berkeley. If this continues, you end up with smaller, more militant protests by more marginalized people, which are easy for the state to crush.
This does not mean that violence has no place whatsoever. But it should fundamentally aim at protecting the vulnerable and undermining the powerful, rather than haphazardly chasing after people and beating them up.
posted by dmh at 3:14 AM on August 28, 2017 [17 favorites]
Many tactics are needed. People may have "expressed apprehension" about Berkeley, but the turnout was massive.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 3:29 AM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Joseph Gurl at 3:29 AM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Is this the beating people are talking about?
Because that's a mild fuckin' beating. It's not a serious beating if you can just hop up and walk away afterwards.
(I'm not calling for harder beatings, just want to keep some perspective.)
posted by ryanrs at 3:37 AM on August 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
Because that's a mild fuckin' beating. It's not a serious beating if you can just hop up and walk away afterwards.
(I'm not calling for harder beatings, just want to keep some perspective.)
posted by ryanrs at 3:37 AM on August 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
For real perspective, watch what happened when American anti-fascists fought the nazis at Normandy. There was violence on both sides.
posted by adept256 at 3:41 AM on August 28, 2017 [37 favorites]
posted by adept256 at 3:41 AM on August 28, 2017 [37 favorites]
So is there any democracy or republic which seems to have a handle on the news media, of whose news media isn't just there to stand behind whoever provides the biggest spectacle?
The BBC's far from perfect, but its news service (on both radio and TV) still tends to be less sensationalist and trivial than its commercial rivals' equivalents.
The difference is that the commercial stations have to be constantly worried about ratings and the advertising income those ratings provide. The BBC is largely sheltered from those pressures, because it's funded instead by a licence fee of £147 a year from (almost) every British household with a TV. When you consider how much you get for that - not only the BBC's two broadcast TV channels, but also its many satellite channels, radio stations and online services too - it's a laughably small sum. I'd happily pay it for a year's worth of Radio 4 alone.
The downside is that the government of the day gets to set the licence fee every year, and can use this power to put pressure on the BBC and try to influence its output. Every government of every party still comes to think of the BBC as its enemy, though which speaks well for the its refusal to knuckle under to this kind of pressure.
posted by Paul Slade at 3:59 AM on August 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
The BBC's far from perfect, but its news service (on both radio and TV) still tends to be less sensationalist and trivial than its commercial rivals' equivalents.
The difference is that the commercial stations have to be constantly worried about ratings and the advertising income those ratings provide. The BBC is largely sheltered from those pressures, because it's funded instead by a licence fee of £147 a year from (almost) every British household with a TV. When you consider how much you get for that - not only the BBC's two broadcast TV channels, but also its many satellite channels, radio stations and online services too - it's a laughably small sum. I'd happily pay it for a year's worth of Radio 4 alone.
The downside is that the government of the day gets to set the licence fee every year, and can use this power to put pressure on the BBC and try to influence its output. Every government of every party still comes to think of the BBC as its enemy, though which speaks well for the its refusal to knuckle under to this kind of pressure.
posted by Paul Slade at 3:59 AM on August 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
I think it's obvious the neofascists have been massing in dark corners of the internet and talking to each other over the past few years. Their talking points, their euphemisms, the logic of their arguments are uniform across nationality. In particular it's striking how the irresponsible version of Free Speech, not at all a European thing, suddenly appears as a universal value.
I mean,they've been huddling together in a bubble, and they must have thought their time was ripe. Well it isn't. There's vastly fewer of them than their online presence would lead you to believe, and of that number a respectable proportion are destabilising bots. I think the physical fightback is essential. They've gathered courage by imagining there are more of them than there are, they've become confident in their arguments through the approval of their own echo chamber.
So I think without a public showing of disagreement, including physical pushback - not intending to euphemise here, I mean thumping them soundly - all that will happen is they'll be emboldened to carry on their fascist ways. Bullies are cowards and these corn-fed, milk-guzzling, basement-dwelling mother-beaters more so than most. There will always be vulnerable people they can hurt. Make them scared of the consequences.
posted by glasseyes at 4:44 AM on August 28, 2017 [41 favorites]
I mean,they've been huddling together in a bubble, and they must have thought their time was ripe. Well it isn't. There's vastly fewer of them than their online presence would lead you to believe, and of that number a respectable proportion are destabilising bots. I think the physical fightback is essential. They've gathered courage by imagining there are more of them than there are, they've become confident in their arguments through the approval of their own echo chamber.
So I think without a public showing of disagreement, including physical pushback - not intending to euphemise here, I mean thumping them soundly - all that will happen is they'll be emboldened to carry on their fascist ways. Bullies are cowards and these corn-fed, milk-guzzling, basement-dwelling mother-beaters more so than most. There will always be vulnerable people they can hurt. Make them scared of the consequences.
posted by glasseyes at 4:44 AM on August 28, 2017 [41 favorites]
There's vastly fewer of them than their online presence would lead you to believe
The problem is their presence in the white house.
posted by adept256 at 5:06 AM on August 28, 2017 [29 favorites]
The problem is their presence in the white house.
posted by adept256 at 5:06 AM on August 28, 2017 [29 favorites]
On punching, the left, absorbing blows, etc:
Something that happened in my extended social circle this weekend: a woman outside a local hipster bar called out some dudes who were saying Nazi stuff and they curb-stomped her, to the point where she was in the ER and her teeth were loose.
Now, ask yourself, what are the options here? Be a quiet white person and just let people say Nazi shit? Get curbstomped? Call...uh, who? The police? The same police who let people bleed when they were shot by racists at the Jamar Clark protest? And it's not illegal to say Nazi shit anyway.
And you know what's going to happen to those guys? Precisely nothing, because it will be virtually impossible to identify them, and if identified, it will be virtually impossible to convict them, because after all they're white racists who beat a woman, and a white jury will turn them loose with maybe a slap on the wrist.
So what's the option? When we get all "oh, don't punch, don't hit", what we're de facto saying is "Nazis, who are willing to punch and hit, can run riot over us, beating us whenever we even use words to criticize them. Nazis can come to town and stage a race riot or do whatever they want, because the cops don't help and we're not supposed to hit them".
I think a lot of us - including me - are not aware of how much Nazi shit has been showing up in the past few years. I live a quiet life, but looking back, I can think of two encounters with Nazi people or materials prior to the election (leaving out neo-Nazi demonstrations) - in Minneapolis, a blue city. And since the election, now that I'm a little more plugged in, I hear about a lot more .
I'll tell you what, I don't like the idea of getting into a punching match with a bunch of Nazis. I think it is dangerous, unappealing and hard to win. But we're in the position of pacifists in the last conflict with Nazis - that is, wrong - if we think that the solution is to sit tight and let them commit violence.
As the fellow said, if it takes a voice, then shout the truth; if it takes a hand, then hold them back; if it takes a fist, smash them down. Never again, is also what he said.
posted by Frowner at 5:16 AM on August 28, 2017 [165 favorites]
Something that happened in my extended social circle this weekend: a woman outside a local hipster bar called out some dudes who were saying Nazi stuff and they curb-stomped her, to the point where she was in the ER and her teeth were loose.
Now, ask yourself, what are the options here? Be a quiet white person and just let people say Nazi shit? Get curbstomped? Call...uh, who? The police? The same police who let people bleed when they were shot by racists at the Jamar Clark protest? And it's not illegal to say Nazi shit anyway.
And you know what's going to happen to those guys? Precisely nothing, because it will be virtually impossible to identify them, and if identified, it will be virtually impossible to convict them, because after all they're white racists who beat a woman, and a white jury will turn them loose with maybe a slap on the wrist.
So what's the option? When we get all "oh, don't punch, don't hit", what we're de facto saying is "Nazis, who are willing to punch and hit, can run riot over us, beating us whenever we even use words to criticize them. Nazis can come to town and stage a race riot or do whatever they want, because the cops don't help and we're not supposed to hit them".
I think a lot of us - including me - are not aware of how much Nazi shit has been showing up in the past few years. I live a quiet life, but looking back, I can think of two encounters with Nazi people or materials prior to the election (leaving out neo-Nazi demonstrations) - in Minneapolis, a blue city. And since the election, now that I'm a little more plugged in, I hear about a lot more .
I'll tell you what, I don't like the idea of getting into a punching match with a bunch of Nazis. I think it is dangerous, unappealing and hard to win. But we're in the position of pacifists in the last conflict with Nazis - that is, wrong - if we think that the solution is to sit tight and let them commit violence.
As the fellow said, if it takes a voice, then shout the truth; if it takes a hand, then hold them back; if it takes a fist, smash them down. Never again, is also what he said.
posted by Frowner at 5:16 AM on August 28, 2017 [165 favorites]
>> There's vastly fewer of them than their online presence would lead you to believe
> The problem is their presence in the white house.
And, as mentioned above, in the police? The shooter at cville got arrested (not until after the vid's release oc) for "discharging a firearm within 1,000 feet of a school".
He can probably get way with it using the defense that the school frightened him.
posted by farlukar at 5:19 AM on August 28, 2017 [15 favorites]
> The problem is their presence in the white house.
And, as mentioned above, in the police? The shooter at cville got arrested (not until after the vid's release oc) for "discharging a firearm within 1,000 feet of a school".
He can probably get way with it using the defense that the school frightened him.
posted by farlukar at 5:19 AM on August 28, 2017 [15 favorites]
The trick with antifa is that some of them are content to surround Nazis and be menacing-yet-fun, and some are there to hit things. It really depends on the individuals involved.
I wanted to say it in the other thread where people were talking about elections, but it'll be wild once DSA and the Resistance, who it seems have a much better idea of the logistics of organising, realise that they can run their own candidates and they don't have to worry about the terrible GOTV programs the Democratic Party runs if they just... replace them.
posted by Merus at 5:27 AM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
I wanted to say it in the other thread where people were talking about elections, but it'll be wild once DSA and the Resistance, who it seems have a much better idea of the logistics of organising, realise that they can run their own candidates and they don't have to worry about the terrible GOTV programs the Democratic Party runs if they just... replace them.
posted by Merus at 5:27 AM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Guys, guys, it's OK: Trump has figured out that the real problem our country has to solve is that the police don't have enough tanks!
He's on that shit, don't worry about it.
posted by tocts at 5:28 AM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
He's on that shit, don't worry about it.
posted by tocts at 5:28 AM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
oh hai I was offline for 3 days & came back to hear about the pardon shit and wondered if someone could please repeat/enlighten me: is it not contempt (federal) for Trump to pardon Arassholio?
PS My carotid arteries turned to concrete within a few minutes of re-entry. *sigh*
posted by yoga at 5:30 AM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
PS My carotid arteries turned to concrete within a few minutes of re-entry. *sigh*
posted by yoga at 5:30 AM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Wow, I knew Arpaio was bad, but I had no idea he was this bad...
Wait, do people actually know how evil this man is? by Nathan J. Robinson
Let's hear from the fucker himself.
@RealSheriffJoe
The media has been giving me a lot of heat lately but nothing compared to tent city! You think you're hot? It's 128 degrees there today!
posted by chris24 at 5:37 AM on August 28, 2017 [28 favorites]
Wait, do people actually know how evil this man is? by Nathan J. Robinson
Let's hear from the fucker himself.
@RealSheriffJoe
The media has been giving me a lot of heat lately but nothing compared to tent city! You think you're hot? It's 128 degrees there today!
posted by chris24 at 5:37 AM on August 28, 2017 [28 favorites]
The bigger danger is that the general public will not support or attend violent protests. Already people have expressed apprehension about going to Berkeley. If this continues, you end up with smaller, more militant protests by more marginalized people, which are easy for the state to crush.
This does not mean that violence has no place whatsoever. But it should fundamentally aim at protecting the vulnerable and undermining the powerful, rather than haphazardly chasing after people and beating them up.
It seems to sometimes be missed that this goes for the other side as well. It's just as likely to keep some people who might be sympathetic to the right wing 'cause' being protested away as well. There are violent people and many white supremists and nazi types are all about race war and left war bullshit but not everyone is hardcore. It isn't a stereotype in the day and age to say that many of those coming out to these things are stepping away from their keys for the first time in their lives. These folks can talk big but meeting the real life version of their talking is different.
I've seen people like this crumble in the face of real physical opposition and just the idea that they could fight back. They didn't match their keyboard warrior talk at all and were scared. After Charlottesville for instance I did see some comments about how physically protesting wasn't going to work and how we need to up our meme game even more.
This is not a reason or suggestion that violence is an answer only pointing out that violence during these sorts of things isn't necessarily going to suppress turnout for just one side.
posted by Jalliah at 5:58 AM on August 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
This does not mean that violence has no place whatsoever. But it should fundamentally aim at protecting the vulnerable and undermining the powerful, rather than haphazardly chasing after people and beating them up.
It seems to sometimes be missed that this goes for the other side as well. It's just as likely to keep some people who might be sympathetic to the right wing 'cause' being protested away as well. There are violent people and many white supremists and nazi types are all about race war and left war bullshit but not everyone is hardcore. It isn't a stereotype in the day and age to say that many of those coming out to these things are stepping away from their keys for the first time in their lives. These folks can talk big but meeting the real life version of their talking is different.
I've seen people like this crumble in the face of real physical opposition and just the idea that they could fight back. They didn't match their keyboard warrior talk at all and were scared. After Charlottesville for instance I did see some comments about how physically protesting wasn't going to work and how we need to up our meme game even more.
This is not a reason or suggestion that violence is an answer only pointing out that violence during these sorts of things isn't necessarily going to suppress turnout for just one side.
posted by Jalliah at 5:58 AM on August 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
Okay, MeFi, explain to me... what are the differences between antifa, "Black Bloc," and anarchists? Is that guy Sean Illing interviewed for Vox right to say there is a lot of overlap?
If you will bear with me for a sec.... I was trying to explain to my mother who Tyler Durden is, the other day. I described him as "The anarchist anti-hero of a movie about the attractions of violence." (It is hard to explain Fight Club to someone who has never seen/read it. I resorted to sharing a gif of the ending, the view of the city...)
But the reason this subject came up is because she sent me a link to this article from ZeroHedge, suggesting that the Nazis in Charlottesville with the swastika flags were actually actors/plants (which is what she believes.)
For those who don't know, ZeroHedge pushes the kind of alt right propaganda beloved of Russian trolls. And everything they publish purports to be written by "Tyler Durden" (complete with a picture of Brad Pitt's bruised face.) So I was trying to explain to her why "Tyler Durden" might not be the most reliable source to get your news from.
Okay, bringing it back to antifa now... If they are really "Fight Club" obsessed white boys like the few self proclaimed "anarchists" I have known, then it seems to me they actually have a lot in common with the alt right... It seems like some people are just looking for acceptable targets to punch... for the alt-right, that is minorities, particularly undocumented immigrants (because they are breaking the law) and Jews (because they are supposedly rich at the expense of others) and Muslims (because they are supposedly terrorists.) Those are targets that their communities hate. But Berkley is a different kind of community... Do Berkley antifa see Nazis as the same kind of "opportunity? An acceptable target of violence (because they are nazis) which they really want to commit more or less for its own sake?
And why is being an "anarchist" even considered a left wing position at all? Libertarians are right wing... They believe that the government should not do anything except maintain a military and a police force for the protection of property rights, basically. Anarchists don't even think the government should do THAT. Doesn't that put them to the RIGHT of libertarians? How can you be an anarchist and ALSO believe in universal government provided healthcare, for instance?
And historically "anarchy" has never ended well for vulnerable people. If it is every man for himself and the only property you can keep is what you can defend by force 1) that does not go well for minorities and women and poor people 2) eventually gangs/warlords step in to fill the power vacuum and that also does not go well for minorities and women and poor people.
It seems to me that there is a huge overlap both ideologically and culturally between "anarchists" and tech bro "Libertarians" (the kind who are very into Bitcoin and sea-stedding) and I already know the tech bro libertarians are not on our side. Why do people think that anarchists are?
If antifa are just volunteer security for rallies then... well, actually that still worries me, because that is how the Three Percenters and Oath Keepers describe themselves also. It's how a lot of paramilitaries get started, I guess, including the SS in Germany who started out as the Saal-schutz, literally "Hall protection" as in meeting halls...)
But I mean if they are just there to do the kind of stuff they did in Charlottesville, great.
But if they are mostly punching Nazis because they are excited to have found someone it is acceptable to punch... And if they really are anarchists... then I don't know that they are really on our side.
(Disclaimer... I realize even if there are a lot of people like I have described it is definitely not everyone associated with antifa. I'm just wondering if it IS a lot of them.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:12 AM on August 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
If you will bear with me for a sec.... I was trying to explain to my mother who Tyler Durden is, the other day. I described him as "The anarchist anti-hero of a movie about the attractions of violence." (It is hard to explain Fight Club to someone who has never seen/read it. I resorted to sharing a gif of the ending, the view of the city...)
But the reason this subject came up is because she sent me a link to this article from ZeroHedge, suggesting that the Nazis in Charlottesville with the swastika flags were actually actors/plants (which is what she believes.)
For those who don't know, ZeroHedge pushes the kind of alt right propaganda beloved of Russian trolls. And everything they publish purports to be written by "Tyler Durden" (complete with a picture of Brad Pitt's bruised face.) So I was trying to explain to her why "Tyler Durden" might not be the most reliable source to get your news from.
Okay, bringing it back to antifa now... If they are really "Fight Club" obsessed white boys like the few self proclaimed "anarchists" I have known, then it seems to me they actually have a lot in common with the alt right... It seems like some people are just looking for acceptable targets to punch... for the alt-right, that is minorities, particularly undocumented immigrants (because they are breaking the law) and Jews (because they are supposedly rich at the expense of others) and Muslims (because they are supposedly terrorists.) Those are targets that their communities hate. But Berkley is a different kind of community... Do Berkley antifa see Nazis as the same kind of "opportunity? An acceptable target of violence (because they are nazis) which they really want to commit more or less for its own sake?
And why is being an "anarchist" even considered a left wing position at all? Libertarians are right wing... They believe that the government should not do anything except maintain a military and a police force for the protection of property rights, basically. Anarchists don't even think the government should do THAT. Doesn't that put them to the RIGHT of libertarians? How can you be an anarchist and ALSO believe in universal government provided healthcare, for instance?
And historically "anarchy" has never ended well for vulnerable people. If it is every man for himself and the only property you can keep is what you can defend by force 1) that does not go well for minorities and women and poor people 2) eventually gangs/warlords step in to fill the power vacuum and that also does not go well for minorities and women and poor people.
It seems to me that there is a huge overlap both ideologically and culturally between "anarchists" and tech bro "Libertarians" (the kind who are very into Bitcoin and sea-stedding) and I already know the tech bro libertarians are not on our side. Why do people think that anarchists are?
If antifa are just volunteer security for rallies then... well, actually that still worries me, because that is how the Three Percenters and Oath Keepers describe themselves also. It's how a lot of paramilitaries get started, I guess, including the SS in Germany who started out as the Saal-schutz, literally "Hall protection" as in meeting halls...)
But I mean if they are just there to do the kind of stuff they did in Charlottesville, great.
But if they are mostly punching Nazis because they are excited to have found someone it is acceptable to punch... And if they really are anarchists... then I don't know that they are really on our side.
(Disclaimer... I realize even if there are a lot of people like I have described it is definitely not everyone associated with antifa. I'm just wondering if it IS a lot of them.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:12 AM on August 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
And why is being an "anarchist" even considered a left wing position at all?
Most forms of anarchism advocate for a magical form of socialism that works without an overarching state to enforce the redistribution; if you dig deep enough, you can probably find a rose-tinted, Rousseauvian view of human nature as inherently good, with all vice coming from something else (technology, capitalism, hierarchical social organisation or whatever).
posted by acb at 6:28 AM on August 28, 2017 [21 favorites]
Most forms of anarchism advocate for a magical form of socialism that works without an overarching state to enforce the redistribution; if you dig deep enough, you can probably find a rose-tinted, Rousseauvian view of human nature as inherently good, with all vice coming from something else (technology, capitalism, hierarchical social organisation or whatever).
posted by acb at 6:28 AM on August 28, 2017 [21 favorites]
is it not contempt (federal) for Trump to pardon Arassholio?
Well, no, it isn't. Contempt of what, contempt of Twitter? There is no court order prohibiting Trump from doing that.
It's abuse of the power of pardons, and people are arguing that it's unconstitutional, in that it erased the only means to force Arapio to obey the law, but it's not "contempt(federal)".
posted by thelonius at 6:29 AM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Well, no, it isn't. Contempt of what, contempt of Twitter? There is no court order prohibiting Trump from doing that.
It's abuse of the power of pardons, and people are arguing that it's unconstitutional, in that it erased the only means to force Arapio to obey the law, but it's not "contempt(federal)".
posted by thelonius at 6:29 AM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
I might be eager to punch a Nazi - especially if he were chanting racist slogans - but I am certainly not going to mask my face, join a club-wielding mob, and run down one that's peacefully protesting, to maim or beat them to death.
I don't want to make this personal or about this particular commenter, but this kind of stuff from the left really makes me see red.
1. There's no such thing as a peaceful Nazi. There's a good reason why being a Nazi is illegal in Germany and some other places.
2. This is the framing of the enemy who are Nazis.
3. An alternative framing that one might consider - being willing to (a) disguise yourself to try and avoid Nazis knowing who you are and where you live, which is information they have used and will continue to use to try and harm the resistance, (b) arm yourself with blunt weapons that are inferior to the semi-automatic firearms the Nazis have but might help a little, (c) join a group of people unwilling to concede the ground to Nazis without a fight, and (d) go find and fight Nazis.
4. I am sure there are a lot of critical conversations regarding violence in protesting Nazis, the optics of black bloc tactics against Nazis, the potential repercussions of the left taking up violence against Nazis, and so on. I just really don't give a shit right now. It's easy to say that if we fight back we make it worse for ourselves and others. The alternative to that is not fighting back against Nazis, and that is an unacceptable choice.
posted by lazaruslong at 6:30 AM on August 28, 2017 [92 favorites]
I don't want to make this personal or about this particular commenter, but this kind of stuff from the left really makes me see red.
1. There's no such thing as a peaceful Nazi. There's a good reason why being a Nazi is illegal in Germany and some other places.
2. This is the framing of the enemy who are Nazis.
3. An alternative framing that one might consider - being willing to (a) disguise yourself to try and avoid Nazis knowing who you are and where you live, which is information they have used and will continue to use to try and harm the resistance, (b) arm yourself with blunt weapons that are inferior to the semi-automatic firearms the Nazis have but might help a little, (c) join a group of people unwilling to concede the ground to Nazis without a fight, and (d) go find and fight Nazis.
4. I am sure there are a lot of critical conversations regarding violence in protesting Nazis, the optics of black bloc tactics against Nazis, the potential repercussions of the left taking up violence against Nazis, and so on. I just really don't give a shit right now. It's easy to say that if we fight back we make it worse for ourselves and others. The alternative to that is not fighting back against Nazis, and that is an unacceptable choice.
posted by lazaruslong at 6:30 AM on August 28, 2017 [92 favorites]
but but but both sides
posted by entropicamericana at 6:34 AM on August 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 6:34 AM on August 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
if you dig deep enough, you can probably find a rose-tinted, Rousseauvian view of human nature as inherently good,
I find it hard to square such a rose-tinted view with an insistence that Nazis exist and are a real threat which can only be effectively countered by violence. What makes them think gangs of Nazis would not still exist after the state is destroyed?
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:35 AM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
I find it hard to square such a rose-tinted view with an insistence that Nazis exist and are a real threat which can only be effectively countered by violence. What makes them think gangs of Nazis would not still exist after the state is destroyed?
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:35 AM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm a little surprised that Trump announced a visit to Texas tomorrow. There's no way he can show up in the middle of a disaster and not take up needed recovery resources for his security detail.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:37 AM on August 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:37 AM on August 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
Something that happened in my extended social circle this weekend: a woman outside a local hipster bar called out some dudes who were saying Nazi stuff and they curb-stomped her, to the point where she was in the ER and her teeth were loose.
Now, ask yourself, what are the options here? Be a quiet white person and just let people say Nazi shit? Get curbstomped? Call...uh, who? The police? The same police who let people bleed when they were shot by racists at the Jamar Clark protest? And it's not illegal to say Nazi shit anyway.
One thing that is helping, for now, is social media campaigns to identify attackers who are videoed. Several of the men who attacked that young kid in Charlottesville have been identified and arrested/had warrants issued. So I would say don't go into a confrontation unless you are recording, and have someone else there to do it.
Assault is still illegal, and police departments can be shamed into doing something about it given enough pressure.
Which is not to criticize the woman in question for not doing it perfectly. She did the right and brave thing. But nothing wrong with having multiple strategies for protecting yourself when doing the right and brave thing.
posted by emjaybee at 6:40 AM on August 28, 2017 [16 favorites]
Now, ask yourself, what are the options here? Be a quiet white person and just let people say Nazi shit? Get curbstomped? Call...uh, who? The police? The same police who let people bleed when they were shot by racists at the Jamar Clark protest? And it's not illegal to say Nazi shit anyway.
One thing that is helping, for now, is social media campaigns to identify attackers who are videoed. Several of the men who attacked that young kid in Charlottesville have been identified and arrested/had warrants issued. So I would say don't go into a confrontation unless you are recording, and have someone else there to do it.
Assault is still illegal, and police departments can be shamed into doing something about it given enough pressure.
Which is not to criticize the woman in question for not doing it perfectly. She did the right and brave thing. But nothing wrong with having multiple strategies for protecting yourself when doing the right and brave thing.
posted by emjaybee at 6:40 AM on August 28, 2017 [16 favorites]
> Wait, do people actually know how evil this man is? by Nathan J. Robinson
Another aspect really made clear in that article is that it wasn't just Arpaio, but a whole department with it's own attached Arizona prison experiment. Presumably since Arpaio was only done for contempt of court, not the actual crimes he and his organisation committed, they didn't face any repercussions other than having to be more circumspect about their intimidation/violence/racism.
What are the odds that those firing tear gas and rubber bullets at the counter-protesters at the Trump rally in Phoenix came up through Arpaio's ranks?
> I've seen people like this crumble in the face of real physical opposition and just the idea that they could fight back. They didn't match their keyboard warrior talk at all and were scared.
And if they aren't met by real physical opposition then they will become more comfortable committing violence, and carrying out their keyboard warrior fantasies. For the KKK/Nazis violence is not just a means but an end goal, and an intrinsic part of their philosophy, strategy, and tactics.
Militant antifa Nazi punching* isn't /the/ answer. But a solid "Nae Paseran" has to be part of it; because when Nazis gain the streets uncontested things get a lot worse and more violent, particularly for the targeted minorities (like with the Sturmabteilung paving Hitler's way). And blocking them from the streets/communities /has/ worked to dissipate them in the past (Cable Street/Punk movement etc).
* [youtube, how-to, Ameri-Do-Te]
posted by Buntix at 6:44 AM on August 28, 2017 [21 favorites]
Another aspect really made clear in that article is that it wasn't just Arpaio, but a whole department with it's own attached Arizona prison experiment. Presumably since Arpaio was only done for contempt of court, not the actual crimes he and his organisation committed, they didn't face any repercussions other than having to be more circumspect about their intimidation/violence/racism.
What are the odds that those firing tear gas and rubber bullets at the counter-protesters at the Trump rally in Phoenix came up through Arpaio's ranks?
> I've seen people like this crumble in the face of real physical opposition and just the idea that they could fight back. They didn't match their keyboard warrior talk at all and were scared.
And if they aren't met by real physical opposition then they will become more comfortable committing violence, and carrying out their keyboard warrior fantasies. For the KKK/Nazis violence is not just a means but an end goal, and an intrinsic part of their philosophy, strategy, and tactics.
Militant antifa Nazi punching* isn't /the/ answer. But a solid "Nae Paseran" has to be part of it; because when Nazis gain the streets uncontested things get a lot worse and more violent, particularly for the targeted minorities (like with the Sturmabteilung paving Hitler's way). And blocking them from the streets/communities /has/ worked to dissipate them in the past (Cable Street/Punk movement etc).
* [youtube, how-to, Ameri-Do-Te]
posted by Buntix at 6:44 AM on August 28, 2017 [21 favorites]
I find it hard to square such a rose-tinted view with an insistence that Nazis exist and are a real threat which can only be effectively countered by violence. What makes them think gangs of Nazis would not still exist after the state is destroyed?
Probably the idea that the Nazis weren't born to be Nazis, but were poisoned by hierarchy/patriarchy/capitalism/technology/whatever, thus becoming Nazis. Make the leap of faith of dismantling all that, and trust the Nazis to disappear, rather than exterminate and enslave everyone else.
posted by acb at 6:47 AM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Probably the idea that the Nazis weren't born to be Nazis, but were poisoned by hierarchy/patriarchy/capitalism/technology/whatever, thus becoming Nazis. Make the leap of faith of dismantling all that, and trust the Nazis to disappear, rather than exterminate and enslave everyone else.
posted by acb at 6:47 AM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
if you dig deep enough, you can probably find a rose-tinted, Rousseauvian view of human nature as inherently good,
In my experience, this also works for Libertarians. It's just a different set of where the vice is coming from (government, wealth redistribution, taxes) but the core belief in man's inherent nature as good but that is corrupted by these artificial impositions, is present in a certain subset of Libertarians. That was sort of the off ramp from the Objectivism I was raised with. I looked around and was like, "Uh no actually we're fucking animals and organized society and laws are the only things standing in the way of that."
My husband is an anarcho-syndicalist (who works at a law firm lol) and I'm sympathetic but, like, have you met people? We're awful.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:48 AM on August 28, 2017 [39 favorites]
In my experience, this also works for Libertarians. It's just a different set of where the vice is coming from (government, wealth redistribution, taxes) but the core belief in man's inherent nature as good but that is corrupted by these artificial impositions, is present in a certain subset of Libertarians. That was sort of the off ramp from the Objectivism I was raised with. I looked around and was like, "Uh no actually we're fucking animals and organized society and laws are the only things standing in the way of that."
My husband is an anarcho-syndicalist (who works at a law firm lol) and I'm sympathetic but, like, have you met people? We're awful.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:48 AM on August 28, 2017 [39 favorites]
Right up until they divert troops to Kiev and end up fighting a winter campaign, anyway.
"Hitler never played Risk as a kid ..."
posted by DrAstroZoom at 6:49 AM on August 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
"Hitler never played Risk as a kid ..."
posted by DrAstroZoom at 6:49 AM on August 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
> My husband is an anarcho-syndicalist (who works at a law firm lol) and I'm sympathetic but, like, have you met people? We're awful.
People are awful. Unjustifiable heirarchal power structures allow them to amplify their awfulness exponentially. {See Arpaio above, and pretty much the entirety of the previous 128 Trump threads}.
posted by Buntix at 6:55 AM on August 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
People are awful. Unjustifiable heirarchal power structures allow them to amplify their awfulness exponentially. {See Arpaio above, and pretty much the entirety of the previous 128 Trump threads}.
posted by Buntix at 6:55 AM on August 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
Yeah but awful people are perfectly capable of building their own power structures, if the existing ones are destroyed. I mean, we have Breaking Bad / the Wire / American History X to show us how this works. It feels like everyone should know these days that the government is not the only possible kind of power structure...
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:05 AM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:05 AM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm a little surprised that Trump announced a visit to Texas tomorrow. There's no way he can show up in the middle of a disaster and not take up needed recovery resources for his security detail.
You're right, Obama avoided NYC after Sandy for those reasons. But The Trump Show loves to go on the road. He'll probably get his Presidential photo-op with some emergency services (he loves fire trucks) that could be doing other things. The real emergency is that everyone's watching Texas and he's not center-stage. It's all about him.
He should visit during the recovery, not while the disaster is still happening. There's nothing he can do by being physically present that he can't do in DC. Except a photoshoot.
posted by adept256 at 7:05 AM on August 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
You're right, Obama avoided NYC after Sandy for those reasons. But The Trump Show loves to go on the road. He'll probably get his Presidential photo-op with some emergency services (he loves fire trucks) that could be doing other things. The real emergency is that everyone's watching Texas and he's not center-stage. It's all about him.
He should visit during the recovery, not while the disaster is still happening. There's nothing he can do by being physically present that he can't do in DC. Except a photoshoot.
posted by adept256 at 7:05 AM on August 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
Anyway, OUAT I think it's important to remember that antifa isn't a single organization. It's just a bunch of self-organized local and online groups. So it's not like there's any official antifa stance on when it is and is not appropriate to punch a Nazi. I think the least surprising thing that has happened in the past month is that Berkeley antifa are hard core with their tactics. You know how some people are saying, "When you used to wonder what you would have done if you'd been alive in Nazi Germany, what you are doing now is it"? Well, antifa take that quite seriously. It's kind of hard to fault them for it if you believe that we're seeing the rise of a fascist state in the US.
Vis-a-vis anarchism, I remained unconvinced that the awfullest people would not find a way to amplify their awfulness without a State (especially at this point in history where mass communication, transportation, and armaments are available to pretty much everyone). I'm pretty sure that in Walking Dead World, Joe Arpaio would still be killing innocent people. We remain social creatures, and a number of us spend part or all of our lives quite physically vulnerable. Sociopaths gonna sociopath. My preference is working towards a just state rather than just getting rid of the whole thing.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:06 AM on August 28, 2017 [27 favorites]
Vis-a-vis anarchism, I remained unconvinced that the awfullest people would not find a way to amplify their awfulness without a State (especially at this point in history where mass communication, transportation, and armaments are available to pretty much everyone). I'm pretty sure that in Walking Dead World, Joe Arpaio would still be killing innocent people. We remain social creatures, and a number of us spend part or all of our lives quite physically vulnerable. Sociopaths gonna sociopath. My preference is working towards a just state rather than just getting rid of the whole thing.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:06 AM on August 28, 2017 [27 favorites]
And trump can stay the ever loving fuck away from my flooded city.
Mr POTUS45, please come home and play golf at Mar A Lago and stay the eff out of Texas a few weeks yet.
Reluctantly,
- Palm Beach cty resident.
posted by tilde at 7:14 AM on August 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
I'm pretty sure that in Walking Dead World, Joe Arpaio would still be killing innocent people.
He'd probably be an Immortan Joe-style warlord, ruling his miserable stronghold with an iron fist.
Meanwhile, Sherriff Clarke would be wearing actual human skulls attached to his uniform.
posted by acb at 7:18 AM on August 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
He'd probably be an Immortan Joe-style warlord, ruling his miserable stronghold with an iron fist.
Meanwhile, Sherriff Clarke would be wearing actual human skulls attached to his uniform.
posted by acb at 7:18 AM on August 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
Mod note: We're not going to have a conspiracy theory derail; rough ashlar, you need to use somewhat better judgment w/r/t off-the-wall theories.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 7:18 AM on August 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 7:18 AM on August 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
I still believe sociopaths aren't necessarily going to sociopath as much if you've got the right balance of things in a culture, society, political system, but that we don't have anything close to an equitable or sustainable balance now, and the failures are multifactorial and span lots of different levels of organization, from the more personal/private to the public sphere, and that we're at a point in history when outside and inside powers with no deep loyalties to any coherent creed or cause beyond resentment and personal animus and opportunistic self interest are aggressively exploiting the social atomization and disruption that's been normalized in recent decades in the U.S. to push those fault lines.
All these decades of disruptively innovating have broken American society and exploitative hate mongers and opportunists are rushing into the gap, further exacerbating and inflaming natural social tensions to fuel frustration and mistrust between Americans who should otherwise be able to see common interests with other groups of Americans they don't necessarily personally identify with.
posted by saulgoodman at 7:22 AM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
All these decades of disruptively innovating have broken American society and exploitative hate mongers and opportunists are rushing into the gap, further exacerbating and inflaming natural social tensions to fuel frustration and mistrust between Americans who should otherwise be able to see common interests with other groups of Americans they don't necessarily personally identify with.
posted by saulgoodman at 7:22 AM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
I can't believe that I have to say this, but if you see a person being beaten to a pulp on the street, YOU CALL THE FUCKING POLICE.
Policing in America is deeply flawed, but for the love of god, please set those feelings aside if you see a person having their head smashed into the curb. Even bad cops are going to break up an assault that's happening in broad daylight.
posted by schmod at 7:27 AM on August 28, 2017 [16 favorites]
Policing in America is deeply flawed, but for the love of god, please set those feelings aside if you see a person having their head smashed into the curb. Even bad cops are going to break up an assault that's happening in broad daylight.
posted by schmod at 7:27 AM on August 28, 2017 [16 favorites]
There are many anarchisms, although what most people think of as anarchism is "wow, if the state would just collapse, everything would be great!", which we might call "vulgar anarchism", and which really does hinge on a Rousseauian view that people are basically okay and problems are the result of capitalism/patriarchy/etc. (Which raises the question of "where do those problems come from in the first place, IYAM).
Most of the anarchists I know - and I know a bunch at this point! - are anarcho-gradualist-syndicalists (a term I made up). They would probably say, "society can't work without a lot of organization, but that organization does not have to come from the state". They would draw a distinction between leadership and the state, and point to stateless indigenous societies as models, as well as large, effective religious, labor and fraternal networks. What they would say is that the state amplifies power and inequality - power and inequality exist in human relations but the state is a uniquely bad concentrator. (Obviously, power exists in non-state organizations - I don't have as much power as the senior people in my union, even though that's not enforced by the state. And social coercion exists - if I don't do what I say I'll do, or if I shirk, I'll be shamed and excluded.)
Most of the anarchists I know would say that while of course if the state collapsed tomorrow, one would do one's best to build non-state alternatives in the rubble, it would be much better to build non-state alternatives now as much as possible, because the whole "suddenly everything is the chaos kind of anarchy, supply chains collapse, people can't get insulin or chemo drugs or potable water in any kind of reliable way, the people with the most guns win" is deeply, deeply undesirable. That's the gradualism - just as with gradualist socialism, the idea is that you build working structures that function according to your beliefs, rather than hoping to smash the whole show and rebuild in the ruins.
For me, as an anarchist, I am not a totalizer. I don't imagine a utopian future where my beliefs are the world's beliefs, because I think that's creepy. (if you've ever read Samuel Delany's Stars In My Pocket Like Grains Of Sand, he does a pretty good job describing a social world in which many political communities co-exist (or come into conflict), including anarchism.) I imagine a future in which communities can be different from each other and stand or fall by their own competence.
You probably know more anarchists than you think - lots of people who appear to you to be perfectly respectable, reasonable, etc, are anarchists, it's just that the world is all "anarchists are libertarians and teenagers who are into chaos, also their projects and goals are stupid, I used to know someone who lived in a punk house and it was super gross, et patati et patata".
posted by Frowner at 7:33 AM on August 28, 2017 [51 favorites]
Most of the anarchists I know - and I know a bunch at this point! - are anarcho-gradualist-syndicalists (a term I made up). They would probably say, "society can't work without a lot of organization, but that organization does not have to come from the state". They would draw a distinction between leadership and the state, and point to stateless indigenous societies as models, as well as large, effective religious, labor and fraternal networks. What they would say is that the state amplifies power and inequality - power and inequality exist in human relations but the state is a uniquely bad concentrator. (Obviously, power exists in non-state organizations - I don't have as much power as the senior people in my union, even though that's not enforced by the state. And social coercion exists - if I don't do what I say I'll do, or if I shirk, I'll be shamed and excluded.)
Most of the anarchists I know would say that while of course if the state collapsed tomorrow, one would do one's best to build non-state alternatives in the rubble, it would be much better to build non-state alternatives now as much as possible, because the whole "suddenly everything is the chaos kind of anarchy, supply chains collapse, people can't get insulin or chemo drugs or potable water in any kind of reliable way, the people with the most guns win" is deeply, deeply undesirable. That's the gradualism - just as with gradualist socialism, the idea is that you build working structures that function according to your beliefs, rather than hoping to smash the whole show and rebuild in the ruins.
For me, as an anarchist, I am not a totalizer. I don't imagine a utopian future where my beliefs are the world's beliefs, because I think that's creepy. (if you've ever read Samuel Delany's Stars In My Pocket Like Grains Of Sand, he does a pretty good job describing a social world in which many political communities co-exist (or come into conflict), including anarchism.) I imagine a future in which communities can be different from each other and stand or fall by their own competence.
You probably know more anarchists than you think - lots of people who appear to you to be perfectly respectable, reasonable, etc, are anarchists, it's just that the world is all "anarchists are libertarians and teenagers who are into chaos, also their projects and goals are stupid, I used to know someone who lived in a punk house and it was super gross, et patati et patata".
posted by Frowner at 7:33 AM on August 28, 2017 [51 favorites]
So it's not like there's any official antifa stance on when it is and is not appropriate to punch a Nazi.
I would just like to go on record as stating that it is always 100% appropriate to punch a Nazi either physically or metaphorically.
Because if you don't they will win.
posted by adamvasco at 7:33 AM on August 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
I would just like to go on record as stating that it is always 100% appropriate to punch a Nazi either physically or metaphorically.
Because if you don't they will win.
posted by adamvasco at 7:33 AM on August 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
> Yeah but awful people are perfectly capable of building their own power structures, if the existing ones are destroyed.
It's a bit of an unfortunate caricature of anarchism that it's just about smashing the state and everyone doing their own thang unchecked. It is more* replacing hierarchical property centred power structures with human centred flat (as possible) systems of community self-governance. Not the enemy of order but the mother of it...
The roaming mad-max gangs argument against anarchism is addressed way better than I could in the "I.5.13 Won’t an anarchist society be vulnerable to the power hungry?" section of the previously linked FAQ.
TLDR: Anarchism is a land of contrasts.
* Variations exist, YMMV.
posted by Buntix at 7:33 AM on August 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
It's a bit of an unfortunate caricature of anarchism that it's just about smashing the state and everyone doing their own thang unchecked. It is more* replacing hierarchical property centred power structures with human centred flat (as possible) systems of community self-governance. Not the enemy of order but the mother of it...
The roaming mad-max gangs argument against anarchism is addressed way better than I could in the "I.5.13 Won’t an anarchist society be vulnerable to the power hungry?" section of the previously linked FAQ.
TLDR: Anarchism is a land of contrasts.
* Variations exist, YMMV.
posted by Buntix at 7:33 AM on August 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
Welcome to Thread number 129.
Real? Thanks for counting. I was wondering how many.
I mean, there could be a 'You have gone 0 weeks without a new Trump thread' sign up, but even so, that seems like a lot.
posted by MtDewd at 7:44 AM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Real? Thanks for counting. I was wondering how many.
I mean, there could be a 'You have gone 0 weeks without a new Trump thread' sign up, but even so, that seems like a lot.
posted by MtDewd at 7:44 AM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yeah, I appreciate Nazis are evil. I'm really not so naive to think they're only protesting for ponies with swastikas.
But if you automatically jump from "Look, a Nazi!" to "Time for the old ultra-violence!" then you've already ceded part of "the battle for the soul of our country" to them, because you've sacrificed what makes ours fundamentally a civil society, and what makes US fundamentally better than them.
If you think that "the Beaches of Normandy" is the proper model for how to deal with a Nazi protest in downtown Charlottesville, then I think you're wrong - and dangerously so. Are you seriously advocating taking up arms and shooting at protesting Nazis? If not, then what is that rhetoric all about?
Because frankly, as much as I loathe Nazis, that kind of rhetoric, while attractive to many, is so hyperbolic as to be worse than useless in this situation. I refuse to accept the premise that I either favor joining a vigilante mob to attack Nazi demonstrators or I'm unAmerican.
I am not Antifa. I'm not a goon. That doesn't make me unAmerican, and frankly the rhetoric that seeks to shame people into engaging in mob violence by appealing to their patriotism is seriously fucked.
I endorse the idea of punching a Nazi. I don't endorse the kind of rhetoric that's trying to rationalize mob action and whatever response "Beaches of Normandy" imagery is trying to evoke.
But imho, the whole "Punching Nazis: Good or Bad" argument is a derail. I seriously doubt anyone tempted to grab a baseball bat and whale on a Nazi is going to be convinced or deterred by anything they read in this thread.
posted by darkstar at 7:47 AM on August 28, 2017 [67 favorites]
But if you automatically jump from "Look, a Nazi!" to "Time for the old ultra-violence!" then you've already ceded part of "the battle for the soul of our country" to them, because you've sacrificed what makes ours fundamentally a civil society, and what makes US fundamentally better than them.
If you think that "the Beaches of Normandy" is the proper model for how to deal with a Nazi protest in downtown Charlottesville, then I think you're wrong - and dangerously so. Are you seriously advocating taking up arms and shooting at protesting Nazis? If not, then what is that rhetoric all about?
Because frankly, as much as I loathe Nazis, that kind of rhetoric, while attractive to many, is so hyperbolic as to be worse than useless in this situation. I refuse to accept the premise that I either favor joining a vigilante mob to attack Nazi demonstrators or I'm unAmerican.
I am not Antifa. I'm not a goon. That doesn't make me unAmerican, and frankly the rhetoric that seeks to shame people into engaging in mob violence by appealing to their patriotism is seriously fucked.
I endorse the idea of punching a Nazi. I don't endorse the kind of rhetoric that's trying to rationalize mob action and whatever response "Beaches of Normandy" imagery is trying to evoke.
But imho, the whole "Punching Nazis: Good or Bad" argument is a derail. I seriously doubt anyone tempted to grab a baseball bat and whale on a Nazi is going to be convinced or deterred by anything they read in this thread.
posted by darkstar at 7:47 AM on August 28, 2017 [67 favorites]
me, i'm waiting for someone to post "first they came for the fascists" unironically
posted by entropicamericana at 7:58 AM on August 28, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 7:58 AM on August 28, 2017 [19 favorites]
In other Nazi-infiltrating-LEO news, an Oklahoma Police Chief was ousted when it was learned that he was listed as one of the owners of a White Supremacist website.
Bad: the Police Chief was a White Supremacist
Good: he was ousted
Bad: he probably was not the only one in that Police department
posted by darkstar at 8:01 AM on August 28, 2017 [58 favorites]
Bad: the Police Chief was a White Supremacist
Good: he was ousted
Bad: he probably was not the only one in that Police department
posted by darkstar at 8:01 AM on August 28, 2017 [58 favorites]
Linton Kwei Johnson has some relevant advice from his 1979 album Forces of Victory: Fite Dem Back.
posted by Paul Slade at 8:11 AM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Paul Slade at 8:11 AM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
me, i'm waiting for someone to post "first they came for the fascists" unironically
Some guy from this website, apparently
posted by nubs at 8:13 AM on August 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
Some guy from this website, apparently
posted by nubs at 8:13 AM on August 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
Grauniad: Oxford University professor resigns in Donald Trump protest
"Bo Rothstein was professor of government and public policy at the Blavatnik School of Government, named after the Ukraine-born billionaire Leonard Blavatnik who gave the university £75m to set up the school. Rothstein told the Guardian that he resigned on Monday after learning that Blavatnik had given a substantial donation to the Trump campaign, which he called “incomprehensible and irresponsible”.
Blavatnik, who is an associate of the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, is reported to have donated $1m to Trump’s inauguration committee, as well as millions of dollars to his campaign. In his resignation letter, Rothstein said: “President Trump stands for a system of governing that is completely contrary to what I have come to define as ‘quality of government’.” He pointed out that his own research had found that “quality of government” is crucial for improving human well-being.
The letter added: “As I see it, Donald Trump’s policies are also antithetical to the goal of the Blavatnik School of Government, which aims ‘to improve the quality of government and public policy-making worldwide, so that citizens can enjoy more secure and more fulfilled lives’. I therefore find Mr Blavatnik’s decision to support Donald Trump both incomprehensible and irresponsible.
“Mr Blavatnik’s decision to support Donald Trump makes it impossible for me to continue at the Blavatnik School of Government. Given the results from my research, my activities for increasing the ethical standards in higher education, my public statements about the pressing need for integrity and impartiality for holders of public office, as well as the content of my teaching, I cannot give legitimacy and credibility to a person who is supporting Donald Trump. There is simply no way I can defend this in front of students or colleagues.”
Oxford is yet to respond to Rothstein’s resignation. The university was heavily criticised for accepting the original donation from Blavatknik. In a open letter published in the Guardian in 2015, a group of academics urged Oxford to “stop selling its reputation and prestige to Putin’s associates”.
posted by progosk at 8:27 AM on August 28, 2017 [43 favorites]
"Bo Rothstein was professor of government and public policy at the Blavatnik School of Government, named after the Ukraine-born billionaire Leonard Blavatnik who gave the university £75m to set up the school. Rothstein told the Guardian that he resigned on Monday after learning that Blavatnik had given a substantial donation to the Trump campaign, which he called “incomprehensible and irresponsible”.
Blavatnik, who is an associate of the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, is reported to have donated $1m to Trump’s inauguration committee, as well as millions of dollars to his campaign. In his resignation letter, Rothstein said: “President Trump stands for a system of governing that is completely contrary to what I have come to define as ‘quality of government’.” He pointed out that his own research had found that “quality of government” is crucial for improving human well-being.
The letter added: “As I see it, Donald Trump’s policies are also antithetical to the goal of the Blavatnik School of Government, which aims ‘to improve the quality of government and public policy-making worldwide, so that citizens can enjoy more secure and more fulfilled lives’. I therefore find Mr Blavatnik’s decision to support Donald Trump both incomprehensible and irresponsible.
“Mr Blavatnik’s decision to support Donald Trump makes it impossible for me to continue at the Blavatnik School of Government. Given the results from my research, my activities for increasing the ethical standards in higher education, my public statements about the pressing need for integrity and impartiality for holders of public office, as well as the content of my teaching, I cannot give legitimacy and credibility to a person who is supporting Donald Trump. There is simply no way I can defend this in front of students or colleagues.”
Oxford is yet to respond to Rothstein’s resignation. The university was heavily criticised for accepting the original donation from Blavatknik. In a open letter published in the Guardian in 2015, a group of academics urged Oxford to “stop selling its reputation and prestige to Putin’s associates”.
posted by progosk at 8:27 AM on August 28, 2017 [43 favorites]
Krugman unequivocal on the Arpaio pardon:
Let’s call things by their proper names here. Arpaio is, of course, a white supremacist. But he’s more than that. There’s a word for political regimes that round up members of minority groups and send them to concentration camps, while rejecting the rule of law: What Arpaio brought to Maricopa, and what the president of the United States has just endorsed, was fascism, American style.posted by darkstar at 8:32 AM on August 28, 2017 [152 favorites]
Well said, darkstar. It blows my mind that that if you are not in lockstep with the Antifa movement - violence and all - you are automagically regarded as a "Nazi sympathizer." Which I was actually called on Reddit, for simply stating that tit-for-tat violence is not the answer and will only make things worse.
The right calls you a "cuck" if you fail their litmus test on any point, and now the left assumes you're in league with the Nazis. This kind of all-or-nothing rhetoric frightens me to no end.
posted by CottonCandyCapers at 8:35 AM on August 28, 2017 [19 favorites]
The right calls you a "cuck" if you fail their litmus test on any point, and now the left assumes you're in league with the Nazis. This kind of all-or-nothing rhetoric frightens me to no end.
posted by CottonCandyCapers at 8:35 AM on August 28, 2017 [19 favorites]
I would just like to go on record as stating that it is always 100% appropriate to punch a Nazi either physically or metaphorically.
For the sake of avoiding confusion, it strikes me that we could come up with some other word for when you "punch" a Nazi "Metaphorically", so that way you don't end up making people think that violence is always an appropriate solution.
Because it isn't. Dammit, it isn't.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:39 AM on August 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
For the sake of avoiding confusion, it strikes me that we could come up with some other word for when you "punch" a Nazi "Metaphorically", so that way you don't end up making people think that violence is always an appropriate solution.
Because it isn't. Dammit, it isn't.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:39 AM on August 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
I'd just like to note that the current headline on the WaPo article about the Berkely protest originally linked here is Black-clad antifa members attack peaceful right-wing demonstrators in Berkeley.
I don't know whether the headline has been changed (to add 'peaceful') since the article was originally linked, but that's the headline at this time, and it seems like some prime BS to me.
posted by syzygy at 8:39 AM on August 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
I don't know whether the headline has been changed (to add 'peaceful') since the article was originally linked, but that's the headline at this time, and it seems like some prime BS to me.
posted by syzygy at 8:39 AM on August 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
So little to laugh at these days. Not that this is ha-ha funny but ...
Commentary: Donald Trump's pro-wrestling presidencyposted by tilde at 8:43 AM on August 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
David Von Drehle
The Washington Post
August 28, 9:25am
Trump might not have known who Frederick Douglass was when he took the oath of office or that health care's a complicated business. But he has long been an expert storyteller, with a deep appreciation of the innate human appetite for narrative over data. Our brains naturally organize information into story form, and one of the oldest, most powerful patterns is the tale of a conflict: Us vs. Them, Good vs. Evil, Ravishing Rick vs. The Snake.
Outrageous Don scripted his campaign as a series of professional- wrestling scenarios, complete with menacing foreigners, unclever nicknames and plenty of trash talk. When the show got him elected, he doubled down, taunting world leaders and journalists alike. We haven't seen him in tights yet, thank heavens, but he did get a bit saucy with the wife of French President Emmanuel Macron. Trump's improvised line about "fire and fury like the world has never seen" would not be out of place on the USA Network's weekly "WWE SmackDown."
You might say all politicians tell stories of conflict. But with Trump, it's relentless. He takes us from bout to bout — Trump against China, Trump against Comey, Trump against Kim, Trump against Fake News — with a head-spinning undercard of Jared against Bannon and Spicy Spicer against The Mooch. Every policy choice, every personnel decision, every setback can be fodder for the next day's script. Faced with alt-right fascists marching in Charlottesville, Trump spun an "alt-left" to pit against them.
ACLU has filed suit against the trans ban in the military as of this morning.
posted by Sophie1 at 8:48 AM on August 28, 2017 [92 favorites]
posted by Sophie1 at 8:48 AM on August 28, 2017 [92 favorites]
Well said, darkstar. It blows my mind that that if you are not in lockstep with the Antifa movement - violence and all - you are automagically regarded as a "Nazi sympathizer." Which I was actually called on Reddit, for simply stating that violence will only make things worse.
Well you can consider "the left" to be a singular unit but I gotta tell you, if the left actually operated in any sort of lockstep we wouldn't have this problem right now.
posted by Talez at 8:50 AM on August 28, 2017 [48 favorites]
Well you can consider "the left" to be a singular unit but I gotta tell you, if the left actually operated in any sort of lockstep we wouldn't have this problem right now.
posted by Talez at 8:50 AM on August 28, 2017 [48 favorites]
OnceUponaTime: It's a bit simplistic, but in a very general way: Anarchists of the black-bloc, antifa type are what you could consider left-wing libertarians (this variety of anarchism is sometimes called "libertarian socialism"). Anarchists of the hardcore Ayn Rand or tech-bro type are what you could consider right-wing libertarians (this variety is sometimes called "libertarian capitalism" or "anarcho-capitalism").
Others here are better at describing the particular philosophies and goals specific to each wing, but this framing can help eliminate confusion wrt to their respective "libertarianism."
posted by Rykey at 8:52 AM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Others here are better at describing the particular philosophies and goals specific to each wing, but this framing can help eliminate confusion wrt to their respective "libertarianism."
posted by Rykey at 8:52 AM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
I consider every violence promoter in a liberal group to be an FBI plant until proven otherwise.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:53 AM on August 28, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:53 AM on August 28, 2017 [29 favorites]
Some authoritarianism and regime change expert stated that according to his research, violent movements require twice as much buy-in in terms of sheer numbers than peaceful movements do in order to effect change. I wish I could remember his name; I feel like it was an article I read on Slate.
I am personally fine with self-defense; I see no reason to just let someone beat you for optics purposes. I draw the line at provocation and instigation.
posted by xyzzy at 8:58 AM on August 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
I am personally fine with self-defense; I see no reason to just let someone beat you for optics purposes. I draw the line at provocation and instigation.
posted by xyzzy at 8:58 AM on August 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
"Bo Rothstein was professor of government and public policy at the Blavatnik School of Government, named after the Ukraine-born billionaire Leonard Blavatnik who gave the university £75m to set up the school. Rothstein told the Guardian that he resigned on Monday after learning that Blavatnik had given a substantial donation to the Trump campaign, which he called “incomprehensible and irresponsible”.
If that bothers you, you probably better not buy or stream any music from artists on Warner Music, as he owns them as well.
posted by acb at 9:00 AM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
If that bothers you, you probably better not buy or stream any music from artists on Warner Music, as he owns them as well.
posted by acb at 9:00 AM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
All resistance to fascist organizing is self-defense.
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:01 AM on August 28, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:01 AM on August 28, 2017 [34 favorites]
We'll just have to agree to disagree, Pope Guilty.
posted by xyzzy at 9:02 AM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 9:02 AM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
ACLU has filed suit against the trans ban in the military as of this morning.
Damn, I'd love to see members of the armed forces declaring themselves transgender in solidarity. How many would it take for the administration to back down? 10% of the armed forces? A carrier group? Half the medical staff?
I was going to reference the Danish Nazi yellow star resistance, but it didn't actually happen.
posted by Emmy Noether at 9:03 AM on August 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
Damn, I'd love to see members of the armed forces declaring themselves transgender in solidarity. How many would it take for the administration to back down? 10% of the armed forces? A carrier group? Half the medical staff?
I was going to reference the Danish Nazi yellow star resistance, but it didn't actually happen.
posted by Emmy Noether at 9:03 AM on August 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
Looking at the picture of Pence, looking on for the press, near Trump, his facial language is something else. The top half of his face is beatific, angelic, adoring; while the bottom half is no comment. The photo is from the NYT and is within an article about Trump and Afghanistan.
Pence was chosen to be Trump's poison pill.
posted by Oyéah at 9:04 AM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Pence was chosen to be Trump's poison pill.
posted by Oyéah at 9:04 AM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
I consider every violence promoter in a liberal group to be an FBI plant until proven otherwise.
I don't really think that does you or anyone any favors. There are always fringe elements that attach to popular movements, whether it's to promote their own agenda or just do it for the lulz. Turning a blind eye to that with an argument that they're all agents provocateurs only discredits the side you're on. It's better to accept that they're there, whatever the reason, and to make the comparison on proportions. Because we can field many more people who are peaceful protesters, where a huge percentage of what they field either promote or participate in violence.
posted by jammer at 9:05 AM on August 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
I don't really think that does you or anyone any favors. There are always fringe elements that attach to popular movements, whether it's to promote their own agenda or just do it for the lulz. Turning a blind eye to that with an argument that they're all agents provocateurs only discredits the side you're on. It's better to accept that they're there, whatever the reason, and to make the comparison on proportions. Because we can field many more people who are peaceful protesters, where a huge percentage of what they field either promote or participate in violence.
posted by jammer at 9:05 AM on August 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
You all know what this flag means, right? It means "we will literally murder you if we don't like you." How anybody can see someone marching under that flag and not respond with immediate violence (or by running away for self-preservation; that's perfectly justifiable) is beyond me. Once you fly that flag, you've moved past any opportunity for measured conversation.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:06 AM on August 28, 2017 [56 favorites]
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posted by Faint of Butt at 9:06 AM on August 28, 2017 [56 favorites]
declaring themselves transgender in solidarity
I get the intent behind this but just straight up deciding to take someone else's identity makes me super uncomfortable
posted by OverlappingElvis at 9:07 AM on August 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
I get the intent behind this but just straight up deciding to take someone else's identity makes me super uncomfortable
posted by OverlappingElvis at 9:07 AM on August 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
By the way, the trans ban happened late in the day on Friday. Every time we criticize the ACLU (and sometimes they deserve criticism) please remember shades of gray. A team has been working all weekend to put together the suit to be filed first thing Monday morning, making sure that trans Americans don't spend one extra hour wondering what will be done to help.
posted by Sophie1 at 9:09 AM on August 28, 2017 [89 favorites]
posted by Sophie1 at 9:09 AM on August 28, 2017 [89 favorites]
I didn't know what this flag was until I saw it at a rally. It was hanging in my neighborhood so I asked some friends what I should do about it.
I'm glad to say the flag is now gone, after the idiot got a letter from the housing department. This is the kind of nazi punching I like.
Thanks Mefites.
posted by adept256 at 9:16 AM on August 28, 2017 [50 favorites]
I'm glad to say the flag is now gone, after the idiot got a letter from the housing department. This is the kind of nazi punching I like.
Thanks Mefites.
posted by adept256 at 9:16 AM on August 28, 2017 [50 favorites]
Assuming all instances of attacks on right-wing demonstrators are false flag operations is delusional and counterproductive. Still, the obsessive focus on the optics of an isolated attack seems misguided given the sustained and escalating campaign of violence by the white supremacists. If you're really that troubled by how an event will look and think it will significantly harm the movement, then don't work so hard to boost the event's signal and repeatedly complain about how troubling it is.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:45 AM on August 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 9:45 AM on August 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
It's Scoop Noon at The New York Times: A business associate of President Trump promised in 2015 to engineer a real estate deal with the aid of the president of Russia, Vladimir V. Putin, that he said would help Mr. Trump win the presidency.
The business associate, Felix Sater, wrote a series of emails to Mr. Trump’s lawyer, Michael Cohen, in which he boasted about his ties to Mr. Putin and predicted that building a Trump Tower in Moscow would be a political boon to Mr. Trump’s candidacy.
“Our boy can become president of the USA and we can engineer it,” Mr. Sater wrote in an email. “I will get all of Putins team to buy in on this, I will manage this process.”
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:49 AM on August 28, 2017 [85 favorites]
The business associate, Felix Sater, wrote a series of emails to Mr. Trump’s lawyer, Michael Cohen, in which he boasted about his ties to Mr. Putin and predicted that building a Trump Tower in Moscow would be a political boon to Mr. Trump’s candidacy.
“Our boy can become president of the USA and we can engineer it,” Mr. Sater wrote in an email. “I will get all of Putins team to buy in on this, I will manage this process.”
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:49 AM on August 28, 2017 [85 favorites]
saterely this
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:51 AM on August 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:51 AM on August 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
increasingly hard to distinguish between real life and sater
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:52 AM on August 28, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:52 AM on August 28, 2017 [20 favorites]
Sater is....still alive, but probably checking his tea carefully before drinking it.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:55 AM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:55 AM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm sure it was the merest of coincidences that Sater explicitly said this, and then that Russia tried to get Trump elected. In fact, Trump is probably so innocent that Russia helped him get elected just to make him look bad.
posted by Room 101 at 9:55 AM on August 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Room 101 at 9:55 AM on August 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
Cue the collusion deniers switching to "what's so bad about collusion?"
posted by Gelatin at 9:56 AM on August 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Gelatin at 9:56 AM on August 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
I think the thing that troubles me about criticism of antifa/Nazi punching is not that you think it's wrong or that you don't want to do it. It's that you're spending more time criticizing resistance to fascism than you are criticizing fascism. Think violence is not the answer? Fab! Everyone has to draw that moral line for themselves. Not everyone will come to the same conclusion. So sorry, what is your answer? Are you spending time on that answer? As much time as you are wringing your hands about Nazi punching? Because if not, why do you think this is a better use of your time and limited resources?
Also sorry, fuck "optics". I don't know when it became trendy to worry about this but it's tired. The white supremacist right-wing in America will bend the truth or just straight up lie to suit their own twisted unhinged narrative, and a frightening amount of the American public will tut-tut and say "both sides!" no matter what actually happens. Who the fuck cares how shit looks?
posted by supercrayon at 9:59 AM on August 28, 2017 [74 favorites]
Also sorry, fuck "optics". I don't know when it became trendy to worry about this but it's tired. The white supremacist right-wing in America will bend the truth or just straight up lie to suit their own twisted unhinged narrative, and a frightening amount of the American public will tut-tut and say "both sides!" no matter what actually happens. Who the fuck cares how shit looks?
posted by supercrayon at 9:59 AM on August 28, 2017 [74 favorites]
The number of people in this thread defending left wing violence is evidence that it's not all false flags.
posted by LarsC at 10:00 AM on August 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by LarsC at 10:00 AM on August 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
If your violence makes us look good, you're one of us. If your violence makes us look bad, you're one of them.
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:02 AM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:02 AM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Mod note: Let us all move on with our lives and this thread and let people punch or not punch Nazis, as they prefer and as their conscience dictates, but boy am I bored of rehashing it over and over again in these threads. That also goes for "are these real leftists or plants?" If evidence comes out one way or the other, fine. Otherwise, consider both hypotheses well-explained at this point.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 10:04 AM on August 28, 2017 [83 favorites]
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 10:04 AM on August 28, 2017 [83 favorites]
“Our boy can become president of the USA and we can engineer it,” Mr. Sater wrote in an email. “I will get all of Putins team to buy in on this, I will manage this process.”
this is not so much a smoking gun as a smoking radioactive crater
posted by murphy slaw at 10:11 AM on August 28, 2017 [93 favorites]
this is not so much a smoking gun as a smoking radioactive crater
posted by murphy slaw at 10:11 AM on August 28, 2017 [93 favorites]
Cue Trump denying he ever knew Sater.
Though, this revelation is sure to take the edge off the buzz he got from his base's rapture over Arpaio's pardon.
posted by Gelatin at 10:15 AM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Though, this revelation is sure to take the edge off the buzz he got from his base's rapture over Arpaio's pardon.
posted by Gelatin at 10:15 AM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Sooooo now they all know they're going to jail if the Democrats take back even the house, right? Like that's probably a sure thing?
So...there's nothing they won't do to stop it?
I've been thinking about that "may you live in interesting times" curse lately. I mean, that is...that is good cursing. Whoever came up with that one knew what they were doing.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:16 AM on August 28, 2017 [32 favorites]
So...there's nothing they won't do to stop it?
I've been thinking about that "may you live in interesting times" curse lately. I mean, that is...that is good cursing. Whoever came up with that one knew what they were doing.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:16 AM on August 28, 2017 [32 favorites]
Three interesting (and potentially quite positive) developments, via TPM:
1. Mexican Government Offers Texas Assistance ('As Good Neighbors Should Always Do')
2. Illinois Becomes 10th State to Enact Automatic Voter Registration
and
3. Fresh Off A Pardon From Trump, Arpaio Floats A Primary Challenge To Flake
MOAR PLS
posted by darkstar at 10:17 AM on August 28, 2017 [43 favorites]
1. Mexican Government Offers Texas Assistance ('As Good Neighbors Should Always Do')
2. Illinois Becomes 10th State to Enact Automatic Voter Registration
and
3. Fresh Off A Pardon From Trump, Arpaio Floats A Primary Challenge To Flake
MOAR PLS
posted by darkstar at 10:17 AM on August 28, 2017 [43 favorites]
According to the @dcexaminer, Joe Arpaio has been eyeing primarying Jeff Flake for his senate seat. Of course he's 85 years old and a monster, so, who knows.
What preview window?
posted by Sophie1 at 10:18 AM on August 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
What preview window?
posted by Sophie1 at 10:18 AM on August 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
A man who claimed that he was stabbed after being mistaken for a neo-Nazi now admits that he made the whole story up after accidentally stabbing himself.
posted by salix at 10:24 AM on August 28, 2017 [62 favorites]
posted by salix at 10:24 AM on August 28, 2017 [62 favorites]
3. Fresh Off A Pardon From Trump, Arpaio Floats A Primary Challenge To Flake
i wonder if a timepiece has yet been devised precise enough to measure the time between trump sticking a shiv in Kelli Ward and endorsing Arpaio
posted by murphy slaw at 10:24 AM on August 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
i wonder if a timepiece has yet been devised precise enough to measure the time between trump sticking a shiv in Kelli Ward and endorsing Arpaio
posted by murphy slaw at 10:24 AM on August 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
On reflection:
I think Flake can win another General election if he can get there. He still has that "moderate/reasonable" Republican reputation among many folks in AZ. His recent denunciation of Trump has served to cement that among moderates on both sides of the aisle.
His real problem now is winning a Republican primary, where his perceived moderation and distancing from Trump are liabilities among the partisan Republicans/Tea Partiers that vote in the primary.
As for that, the more candidates there are to split the anti-Flake vote, the better for him. So while I don't think Arpaio is seriously going to run for Senate, if he were to do so, it would probably be to Flake's advantage. Arpaio and Ward would split the rabid right-wing, anti-incumbent vote, letting Flake win the primary. Then he'd go on to win the General.
Flake's low approval is in large part due to right-wingers that are dissatisfied that he's not right-wing enough. They may disapprove of him on those grounds, but they'd never vote for a Dem in the General. They'll hold their noses and vote for the (R) just to make sure they retain control of the Senate, even if they hate Flake, specifically.
posted by darkstar at 10:38 AM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think Flake can win another General election if he can get there. He still has that "moderate/reasonable" Republican reputation among many folks in AZ. His recent denunciation of Trump has served to cement that among moderates on both sides of the aisle.
His real problem now is winning a Republican primary, where his perceived moderation and distancing from Trump are liabilities among the partisan Republicans/Tea Partiers that vote in the primary.
As for that, the more candidates there are to split the anti-Flake vote, the better for him. So while I don't think Arpaio is seriously going to run for Senate, if he were to do so, it would probably be to Flake's advantage. Arpaio and Ward would split the rabid right-wing, anti-incumbent vote, letting Flake win the primary. Then he'd go on to win the General.
Flake's low approval is in large part due to right-wingers that are dissatisfied that he's not right-wing enough. They may disapprove of him on those grounds, but they'd never vote for a Dem in the General. They'll hold their noses and vote for the (R) just to make sure they retain control of the Senate, even if they hate Flake, specifically.
posted by darkstar at 10:38 AM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
@justinhendrix tweets a video reminder of how Donald reacted when a BBC reporter confronted him about Sater's mob ties.
posted by valetta at 10:39 AM on August 28, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by valetta at 10:39 AM on August 28, 2017 [32 favorites]
Over the last week, I finally read the comic book March, Rep. John Lewis' (GA-05) autobiographical account of organizing sit-ins, marches, the Freedom Rides, and other non-violent direct actions across the segregated South in the 1960s to desegregate public places and get recognition of Black people's right to vote.
Lewis is a true American Hero and one of the last of the "Big Six" who organized the March on Washington. Rep. Lewis got arrested at least 40 times. He got the shit kicked out of him by Dallas County Sheriff Jim Clark and his vicious goons wearing badges on Bloody Sunday in Selma, AL.
His life and actions are an inspiration to all of us in the majority resisting American fascism. John Lewis is among the finest Americans ever to have lived--a true hero. I can't recommend March enough--it's riveting, inspiring, and probably my favorite comic. If you're flagging because of how horrible and exhausting this regime is: Buy it, read it, and be inspired towards being the best versions of ourselves we can.
(As I was typing this up, Peter Tosh's Equal Rights and Not Gonna Give it Up.)
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:41 AM on August 28, 2017 [66 favorites]
Lewis is a true American Hero and one of the last of the "Big Six" who organized the March on Washington. Rep. Lewis got arrested at least 40 times. He got the shit kicked out of him by Dallas County Sheriff Jim Clark and his vicious goons wearing badges on Bloody Sunday in Selma, AL.
His life and actions are an inspiration to all of us in the majority resisting American fascism. John Lewis is among the finest Americans ever to have lived--a true hero. I can't recommend March enough--it's riveting, inspiring, and probably my favorite comic. If you're flagging because of how horrible and exhausting this regime is: Buy it, read it, and be inspired towards being the best versions of ourselves we can.
(As I was typing this up, Peter Tosh's Equal Rights and Not Gonna Give it Up.)
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:41 AM on August 28, 2017 [66 favorites]
Maybe Flake can lose the primary and then run as a spoiler Independent. Then Republicans can enjoy the sweet taste of splitting your vote for once.
posted by Glibpaxman at 10:42 AM on August 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Glibpaxman at 10:42 AM on August 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
Sater is....still alive, but probably checking his tea carefully before drinking it.
He appears, semmingly relaxed, in this Dutch investigative TV report (posted a hundred 45 threads ago): The Dubious Friends of Donald Trump: The Russians.
posted by progosk at 10:44 AM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
He appears, semmingly relaxed, in this Dutch investigative TV report (posted a hundred 45 threads ago): The Dubious Friends of Donald Trump: The Russians.
posted by progosk at 10:44 AM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Sooooo now they all know they're going to jail if the Democrats take back even the house, right? Like that's probably a sure thing?
They'd need a 2/3 majority.
posted by corb at 10:47 AM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
They'd need a 2/3 majority.
posted by corb at 10:47 AM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
For people who ran an entire Presidential campaign around the idea that one's email should be investigated to see what they're hiding, the Trump folks sure seem to have a lot of ridiculously suspicious stuff in their email.
posted by zachlipton at 10:47 AM on August 28, 2017 [106 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 10:47 AM on August 28, 2017 [106 favorites]
For people who ran an entire Presidential campaign around the idea that one's email should be investigated to see what they're hiding, the Trump folks sure seem to have a lot of ridiculously suspicious stuff in their email.
It's Trumps mirror, yet again. Every accusation is just projection, sometimes, as we've seen from Trump's twitter history, projection with knowledge of the future.
posted by dis_integration at 10:55 AM on August 28, 2017 [19 favorites]
It's Trumps mirror, yet again. Every accusation is just projection, sometimes, as we've seen from Trump's twitter history, projection with knowledge of the future.
posted by dis_integration at 10:55 AM on August 28, 2017 [19 favorites]
Meet words with words or violence with violence, but not words with violence or violence with words.
posted by walrus at 10:56 AM on August 28, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by walrus at 10:56 AM on August 28, 2017 [20 favorites]
No one is going to jail until Trump is not president any longer. This is no longer a country with a functioning legal system, it's a de facto autocracy. Going through with Apario proved it. He's going to pardon everyone implicated in the Russia investigation, including himself if he has the 5 votes on the Supreme Court, and we know he has 3. It's going to come down to Roberts and Kennedy deciding whether a traitor president can pardon himself.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:59 AM on August 28, 2017 [46 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:59 AM on August 28, 2017 [46 favorites]
I'm deeply worried that if we somehow manage to overcome gerrymandering and actually take the House in 2018 the Democrats will shift into Obama style "look forward, not back" mode and won't actually investigate anything.
Plus, of course, given the way things are going we'd need to get around 60% of the vote nationwide to get a simple majority in the House. We're currently projected to get 54% of the vote and... 47% of the House seats. Because the rules have been changed and we simply aren't allowed to win anymore even if we actually win. We win and yet somehow they control the government.
I really do think we're going to need to shut the whole country down, mass Egypt style protests for months on end, and rebuild the government to fix this. Because we can't afford to legitimize an electoral victory in 2018 that works out to an actual loss. We shouldn't have permitted it in 2016 with Trump overturning the will of the majority to be president despite losing by five million votes. But now the stakes are higher and I think we on the left are a lot less willing to take Republican "legal" cheating than we were in 2016.
posted by sotonohito at 11:03 AM on August 28, 2017 [22 favorites]
Plus, of course, given the way things are going we'd need to get around 60% of the vote nationwide to get a simple majority in the House. We're currently projected to get 54% of the vote and... 47% of the House seats. Because the rules have been changed and we simply aren't allowed to win anymore even if we actually win. We win and yet somehow they control the government.
I really do think we're going to need to shut the whole country down, mass Egypt style protests for months on end, and rebuild the government to fix this. Because we can't afford to legitimize an electoral victory in 2018 that works out to an actual loss. We shouldn't have permitted it in 2016 with Trump overturning the will of the majority to be president despite losing by five million votes. But now the stakes are higher and I think we on the left are a lot less willing to take Republican "legal" cheating than we were in 2016.
posted by sotonohito at 11:03 AM on August 28, 2017 [22 favorites]
It's going to come down to Roberts and Kennedy deciding whether a traitor president can pardon himself.
I'll offer long odds on Roberts and Kennedy voting for their Party rather than their country. Kennedy did it before, in Bush v Gore, and we all know Roberts is just a party hack not a real jurist.
posted by sotonohito at 11:04 AM on August 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
I'll offer long odds on Roberts and Kennedy voting for their Party rather than their country. Kennedy did it before, in Bush v Gore, and we all know Roberts is just a party hack not a real jurist.
posted by sotonohito at 11:04 AM on August 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
I'm deeply worried that if we somehow manage to overcome gerrymandering and actually take the House in 2018 the Democrats will shift into Obama style "look forward, not back" mode and won't actually investigate anything.
I hope, at least, that enough Congressional Democrats remember that we tried that after Obama's election, and got a SCOTUS seat stolen for our troubles (to say nothing of McConnell's relentless and blatant bad faith dealing). I doubt many Democratic officials, to say nothing of their constituents, are going to be in a forgiving mood after two-plus years of Trump.
Sure, David Brooks will go on NPR and recommend it, but hopefully they will have learned never to listen to him, too.
posted by Gelatin at 11:07 AM on August 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
I hope, at least, that enough Congressional Democrats remember that we tried that after Obama's election, and got a SCOTUS seat stolen for our troubles (to say nothing of McConnell's relentless and blatant bad faith dealing). I doubt many Democratic officials, to say nothing of their constituents, are going to be in a forgiving mood after two-plus years of Trump.
Sure, David Brooks will go on NPR and recommend it, but hopefully they will have learned never to listen to him, too.
posted by Gelatin at 11:07 AM on August 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
Kennedy did it for Obamacare too, he wanted to strike down the entire law just like Alito and Scalia and Thomas. I'd say he's 97% a Trump-can-pardon-himself vote, where the other 3 are 100%. Roberts does care about his historical reputation, so I'm putting him at only 65% likely to vote to end the rule of law in America.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:09 AM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:09 AM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
So Murkowski, Capito, Collins, Heller, McCain, McConnell, and now Flake. Is that all of the Republican Senators he's publicly beefed with?
Corker
posted by Glibpaxman at 11:09 AM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Corker
posted by Glibpaxman at 11:09 AM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
> This is no longer a country of with a functioning legal system, it's a de facto autocracy. Going through with Apario proved it.
The Arpaio pardon, along with with Trump's Duterte fandom and fantasies about burying muslims with dead pigs, also suggests that (terrifyingly) what Trump says publicly is actually a heavily filtered, easy-teenage-new-york version of his actual position. The checks and balances are working, just overstrained.
He may not consider that Arpaio didn't do wrong, so much as that what he did was the way it should be done.
posted by Buntix at 11:10 AM on August 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
The Arpaio pardon, along with with Trump's Duterte fandom and fantasies about burying muslims with dead pigs, also suggests that (terrifyingly) what Trump says publicly is actually a heavily filtered, easy-teenage-new-york version of his actual position. The checks and balances are working, just overstrained.
He may not consider that Arpaio didn't do wrong, so much as that what he did was the way it should be done.
posted by Buntix at 11:10 AM on August 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
CNN: Tillerson aide: Constitution, not Trump, 'speaks for the country'
posted by zachlipton at 11:14 AM on August 28, 2017 [44 favorites]
Rather than walk back eyebrow-raising comments made by Secretary of State Rex Tillerson on Sunday, an aide told CNN Monday that President Donald Trump speaks for himself when it comes to American values "because the Constitution speaks for the country."Is it just me, or is Tillerson trying pretty damn hard to get himself fired?
The Tillerson aide said the secretary of state was not criticizing Trump in the remarks.
"The secretary and President have expressed different points of view. He isn't being critical, but more so re-establishing without confusion what are known American values," the aide said.
"The values start from the Constitution. The President's job is to uphold those values. Did he do the best job ever responding to Charlottesville? Nope. But that doesn't mean America changes."
The aide added, "That is why the President speaks for himself because the Constitution speaks for the country."
Speaking on "Fox News Sunday," Tillerson had said Trump "speaks for himself" when asked about the President's response to the violence in Charlottesville, Virginia, in which he blamed "both sides" for the racial unrest. The secretary of state was asked about a United Nations committee issuing a warning to the United States about racism and hate crimes, saying US leaders had not sufficiently condemned white supremacy.
"I don't believe anyone doubts the American people's values," Tillerson said.
"And the President's values?" anchor Chris Wallace asked.
"The President speaks for himself," Tillerson said.
posted by zachlipton at 11:14 AM on August 28, 2017 [44 favorites]
Sooooo now they all know they're going to jail if the Democrats take back even the house, right? Like that's probably a sure thing?
They'd need a 2/3 majority.
Perhaps this is naive, but I think the investigative powers in the house would be enough to do it. We wouldn't have to successfully impeach everyone, just get enough dirt to set the actual justice system in motion. Maybe not Federal, but I'm sure NYS would be happy to move on anything that came up as a result of House investigations, for example. And then once we get the ball rolling...
Honestly, I think that's our best chance. If the Dems don't win the house back in 2018 despite getting a clear majority of the votes, I think things will really go to shit. That will be the tipping point into hell.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:16 AM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
They'd need a 2/3 majority.
Perhaps this is naive, but I think the investigative powers in the house would be enough to do it. We wouldn't have to successfully impeach everyone, just get enough dirt to set the actual justice system in motion. Maybe not Federal, but I'm sure NYS would be happy to move on anything that came up as a result of House investigations, for example. And then once we get the ball rolling...
Honestly, I think that's our best chance. If the Dems don't win the house back in 2018 despite getting a clear majority of the votes, I think things will really go to shit. That will be the tipping point into hell.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:16 AM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Is it just me, or is Tillerson trying pretty damn hard to get himself fired?
wouldn't you be?
posted by murphy slaw at 11:18 AM on August 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
wouldn't you be?
posted by murphy slaw at 11:18 AM on August 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
I think the supremes care about preserving the power of their court, even when they make rulings that are partisan in other ways. I think they would at least be reluctant to do something as self undermining as upholding a Trump self pardon.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 11:20 AM on August 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by paper chromatographologist at 11:20 AM on August 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
Over the last week, I finally read the comic book March, Rep. John Lewis' (GA-05) autobiographical account of organizing sit-ins, marches,
Hey, me too! I made a stop at the Brown v. Board of Education National Historic Site last weekend, and all three were for sale in the gift shop*, so I decided to finally pick them up and give them a read. There's something about them that's so compelling and terrifying at the same time - I'm long out of high school, and woefully under-educated about the civil rights era in general, but seeing the depiction of those events on the page, rather than reading them in AP US History was deeply powerful. I'll strongly second Excommunicated Cardinal's recommendation to read them.
*The gift shop, which as recently as early January had BLM-related items for sale. This is no longer the case. I'll let you decide what that's about.
posted by god hates math at 11:22 AM on August 28, 2017 [12 favorites]
Hey, me too! I made a stop at the Brown v. Board of Education National Historic Site last weekend, and all three were for sale in the gift shop*, so I decided to finally pick them up and give them a read. There's something about them that's so compelling and terrifying at the same time - I'm long out of high school, and woefully under-educated about the civil rights era in general, but seeing the depiction of those events on the page, rather than reading them in AP US History was deeply powerful. I'll strongly second Excommunicated Cardinal's recommendation to read them.
*The gift shop, which as recently as early January had BLM-related items for sale. This is no longer the case. I'll let you decide what that's about.
posted by god hates math at 11:22 AM on August 28, 2017 [12 favorites]
Perhaps this is naive, but I think the investigative powers in the house would be enough to do it. We wouldn't have to successfully impeach everyone, just get enough dirt to set the actual justice system in motion. Maybe not Federal, but I'm sure NYS would be happy to move on anything that came up as a result of House investigations, for example. And then once we get the ball rolling...
I agree, and I would love to be a fly on the wall when Trump is told that he can't pardon his minions for charges brought by individual states.
posted by Gelatin at 11:24 AM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
I agree, and I would love to be a fly on the wall when Trump is told that he can't pardon his minions for charges brought by individual states.
posted by Gelatin at 11:24 AM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Roberts definitely cares about the institution. He's also a rapidly partisan Republican. The three tea party justices do not care, at all, even one bit. Alito, Thomas and Gorsuch are indistinguishable from if three Sean Hannity's were sitting in those seats, especially on political cases like a Trump impeachment/pardon would be. And Kennedy is Kennedy, he has 1 moment of clarity for every 24 cases he sides with the tea baggers without so much as a concurring opinion.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:25 AM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:25 AM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
cjelli: "It is slightly too early to declare the legal system nonexistent, to understate that considerably."
Buntix's statement was not that the Arpaio pardon transitioned us from a state of lawfulness to not, it was that Arpaio reconfirms it. And if you think we have a functioning legal system, I'm sorry for you, you have a couple surprises coming.
posted by TypographicalError at 11:28 AM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Buntix's statement was not that the Arpaio pardon transitioned us from a state of lawfulness to not, it was that Arpaio reconfirms it. And if you think we have a functioning legal system, I'm sorry for you, you have a couple surprises coming.
posted by TypographicalError at 11:28 AM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Another early scoop, this one from the Post's Rosalind S. Helderman, Tom Hamburger and Carol D. Leonnig, and uh, wow: Top Trump Organization executive asked Putin aide for help on business deal
*starts drinking at 11:30 AM because WTF?*
posted by zachlipton at 11:29 AM on August 28, 2017 [73 favorites]
A top executive from Donald Trump’s real estate company emailed Vladimir Putin’s personal spokesman during the U.S. presidential campaign last year to ask for help advancing a stalled Trump Tower development project in Moscow, according to documents submitted to Congress Monday.The same people who kept insisting they have no ties to Putin were emailing Kremlin officials in the middle of the campaign.
Michael Cohen, a Trump attorney and executive vice president for the Trump Organization, sent the email in January 2016 to Dmitry Peskov, the Kremlin’s top press aide.
“Over the past few months I have been working with a company based in Russia regarding the development of a Trump Tower - Moscow project in Moscow City,” Cohen wrote Peskov, according to a person familiar with the email. “Without getting into lengthy specifics. the communication between our two sides has stalled.”
“As this project is too important, I am hereby requesting your assistance. I respectfully request someone, preferably you, contact me so that I might discuss the specifics as well as arranging meetings with the appropriate individuals. I thank you in advance for your assistance and look forward to hearing from you soon,” Cohen wrote.
Cohen’s email marks the most direct interaction yet documented of a top Trump aide and a similarly senior member of Putin’s government.
The email shows the Trump business official directly seeking Kremlin assistance in advancing Trump’s business interests, in the same months when Trump was distinguishing himself on the campaign trail with his warm rhetoric about Putin.
*starts drinking at 11:30 AM because WTF?*
posted by zachlipton at 11:29 AM on August 28, 2017 [73 favorites]
The same people who kept insisting they have no ties to Putin were emailing Kremlin officials in the middle of the campaign.
The amazing thing isn't that they brazenly lied. Of course they lied. They have nothing but contempt for the democratic process -- you'd need to, if you knew your agenda stood no chance at all under a fair system. What's amazing is that they thought they could get away with it, and at least so far, they're generally wearing expensive suits instead of prison orange, though one gets the idea they feel the walls closing in.
posted by Gelatin at 11:36 AM on August 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
The amazing thing isn't that they brazenly lied. Of course they lied. They have nothing but contempt for the democratic process -- you'd need to, if you knew your agenda stood no chance at all under a fair system. What's amazing is that they thought they could get away with it, and at least so far, they're generally wearing expensive suits instead of prison orange, though one gets the idea they feel the walls closing in.
posted by Gelatin at 11:36 AM on August 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
Fox News loves them some Sherriff Joe, so I was expecting them to be cheering loudly for Trump's pardon, but they don't seem to want to touch it, at least not on POTUS45's favorite program.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:42 AM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 11:42 AM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
> Fox News loves them some Sherriff Joe, so I was expecting them to be cheering loudly for Trump's pardon, but they don't seem to want to touch it, at least not on POTUS45's favorite program.
Maybe the cognitive dissonance was too much for them, after going on and ON and ON about the lawlessness of the Marc Rich pardon?
(Ha ha, I nearly sprained my funny bone. Fox and cognitive dissonance? Ha. But then I don't really understand why not.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:44 AM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Maybe the cognitive dissonance was too much for them, after going on and ON and ON about the lawlessness of the Marc Rich pardon?
(Ha ha, I nearly sprained my funny bone. Fox and cognitive dissonance? Ha. But then I don't really understand why not.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:44 AM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
And speaking of "Pardongate", hey, look at that:
Federal prosecutor Mary Jo White was appointed to investigate the pardon of Marc Rich. She was later replaced by then-Republican James Comey, who found no illegality on Clinton's part.
Small world.
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:46 AM on August 28, 2017 [19 favorites]
Federal prosecutor Mary Jo White was appointed to investigate the pardon of Marc Rich. She was later replaced by then-Republican James Comey, who found no illegality on Clinton's part.
Small world.
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:46 AM on August 28, 2017 [19 favorites]
It's going to come down to Roberts and Kennedy deciding whether a traitor president can pardon himself.
I'll offer long odds on Roberts and Kennedy voting for their Party rather than their country. Kennedy did it before, in Bush v Gore, and we all know Roberts is just a party hack not a real jurist.
What about naked self-interest? If there's one thing all judges love, it's the power of judges. I don't think they'll be intentionally neutering themselves.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:47 AM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'll offer long odds on Roberts and Kennedy voting for their Party rather than their country. Kennedy did it before, in Bush v Gore, and we all know Roberts is just a party hack not a real jurist.
What about naked self-interest? If there's one thing all judges love, it's the power of judges. I don't think they'll be intentionally neutering themselves.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:47 AM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
This is no longer a country with a functioning legal system, it's a de facto autocracy.
And it has been that way for a while. Snowden isn't in the US of A because he doesn't feel he'd have a fair trial. Black Lives Matter chats/slogans exist about how POC can not obtain justice.
97% of federal criminal cases plea out because mounting a $1 million+ Dollar defense is just not possible for most people. On the state level a public defender can't argue for new caselaw - I'm guessing the same applies on the federal level. And with a 97% plea deal VS the governments unlimited budget - does that sound like a functional system?
It is slightly too early to declare the legal system nonexistent, to understate that considerably.
Would you prefer the view that the laws of the nation are like a spiders web? The small and weak are able to be tangled up in them but the large and powerful are able to go right through them?
Does a spider web-like system sound like it is "fair and even handed" justice? Does the system sound better if commissions to just add up all the laws have failed 3 times? How do laws too numerous to count sound like a system where ignorance of the law (because they are published) is no excuse (to follow the published laws)?
posted by rough ashlar at 11:48 AM on August 28, 2017 [26 favorites]
And it has been that way for a while. Snowden isn't in the US of A because he doesn't feel he'd have a fair trial. Black Lives Matter chats/slogans exist about how POC can not obtain justice.
97% of federal criminal cases plea out because mounting a $1 million+ Dollar defense is just not possible for most people. On the state level a public defender can't argue for new caselaw - I'm guessing the same applies on the federal level. And with a 97% plea deal VS the governments unlimited budget - does that sound like a functional system?
It is slightly too early to declare the legal system nonexistent, to understate that considerably.
Would you prefer the view that the laws of the nation are like a spiders web? The small and weak are able to be tangled up in them but the large and powerful are able to go right through them?
Does a spider web-like system sound like it is "fair and even handed" justice? Does the system sound better if commissions to just add up all the laws have failed 3 times? How do laws too numerous to count sound like a system where ignorance of the law (because they are published) is no excuse (to follow the published laws)?
posted by rough ashlar at 11:48 AM on August 28, 2017 [26 favorites]
I think the supremes care about preserving the power of their court, even when they make rulings that are partisan in other ways.
I expect that will be a factor in their response to Arpaio's pardon, too.
posted by Coventry at 11:49 AM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
I expect that will be a factor in their response to Arpaio's pardon, too.
posted by Coventry at 11:49 AM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
I have to say, I think my favorite part of today so far is Sater's main argument for why he is going to get the Moscow deal done is that he once arranged for Ivanka to sit in Putin's chair. And Ivaka won't confirm or deny it happened!
It's like me saying I once sat in the chair the local WB TV station's mascot dog used (true; it was pretty covered in dog hair JFYI), so I'm qualified to broker a deal for a TV station.
posted by zachlipton at 11:49 AM on August 28, 2017 [23 favorites]
It's like me saying I once sat in the chair the local WB TV station's mascot dog used (true; it was pretty covered in dog hair JFYI), so I'm qualified to broker a deal for a TV station.
posted by zachlipton at 11:49 AM on August 28, 2017 [23 favorites]
"I don't believe anyone doubts the American people's values," Tillerson said.
Isn't an election part of how the American people express their values? Did not a sizeable chunk of the American people vote for someone whose values include white supremacy, zero culpability and accountability, and grifting, grifting, grifting towards freedom?
I'm not an American, but I can tell you in Canada a lot of us were questioning what the American people values were the day after the election.
posted by nubs at 11:51 AM on August 28, 2017 [19 favorites]
Isn't an election part of how the American people express their values? Did not a sizeable chunk of the American people vote for someone whose values include white supremacy, zero culpability and accountability, and grifting, grifting, grifting towards freedom?
I'm not an American, but I can tell you in Canada a lot of us were questioning what the American people values were the day after the election.
posted by nubs at 11:51 AM on August 28, 2017 [19 favorites]
It's like me saying I once sat in the chair the local WB TV station's mascot dog used (true; it was pretty covered in dog hair JFYI), so I'm qualified to broker a deal for a TV station.
I once sat in the captain's chair of the Starship Enterprise, so I'm qualified to negotiate a peace treaty with the Romulans.
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:53 AM on August 28, 2017 [50 favorites]
I once sat in the captain's chair of the Starship Enterprise, so I'm qualified to negotiate a peace treaty with the Romulans.
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:53 AM on August 28, 2017 [50 favorites]
I once sat in the captain's chair of the Starship Enterprise, so I'm qualified to negotiate a peace treaty with the Romulans.
Hey, me too! We should team up and broker twice the peace.
posted by Servo5678 at 11:56 AM on August 28, 2017 [18 favorites]
Hey, me too! We should team up and broker twice the peace.
posted by Servo5678 at 11:56 AM on August 28, 2017 [18 favorites]
What's amazing is that they thought they could get away with it, and at least so far, they're generally wearing expensive suits
You might want to go read the trade rag of lawyers - the ABA Journal and the May 1995 article "The Lies Have It" by Mark Curriden. The behaviour has been unpunished for a while - so why wouldn't they think they could get away with it?
No one is watching the courts....
posted by rough ashlar at 11:56 AM on August 28, 2017
You might want to go read the trade rag of lawyers - the ABA Journal and the May 1995 article "The Lies Have It" by Mark Curriden. The behaviour has been unpunished for a while - so why wouldn't they think they could get away with it?
No one is watching the courts....
posted by rough ashlar at 11:56 AM on August 28, 2017
I think the supremes care about preserving the power of their court, even when they make rulings that are partisan in other ways.
I expect that will be a factor in their response to Arpaio's pardon, too.
I mean, if you can pardon folks (or yourself) for violating the Constitution, haven't you effectively killed judicial review and blown up separation of powers? The executive would rule supreme.
The Constitution is supposed to be the Supreme Law of the Land, not the President. If the power to pardon is unlimited, then that's no longer true. An unlimited pardon becomes a universal solvent, dissolving the whole Constitution in one fell swoop. And if they want to remove you? You could send in troops to prevent an impeachment vote, and pardon everyone involved.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:58 AM on August 28, 2017 [20 favorites]
I expect that will be a factor in their response to Arpaio's pardon, too.
I mean, if you can pardon folks (or yourself) for violating the Constitution, haven't you effectively killed judicial review and blown up separation of powers? The executive would rule supreme.
The Constitution is supposed to be the Supreme Law of the Land, not the President. If the power to pardon is unlimited, then that's no longer true. An unlimited pardon becomes a universal solvent, dissolving the whole Constitution in one fell swoop. And if they want to remove you? You could send in troops to prevent an impeachment vote, and pardon everyone involved.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:58 AM on August 28, 2017 [20 favorites]
I thought the "Checks and Balances" only worked because the president had the veto. Without that, the courts would have unlimited power. Pretty thin level understanding of a dense topic, I'm sure, but that's how it works in my mind. All three branches have the power to undermine one or both of the other two, which forces them to compromise and work together.
Of course the ability to burn the whole house down is baked into the system - but that's true of every system. No system can be set up to self-perpetuate to an extent that bad actors can't damage it if they are in control.
posted by rebent at 12:02 PM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Of course the ability to burn the whole house down is baked into the system - but that's true of every system. No system can be set up to self-perpetuate to an extent that bad actors can't damage it if they are in control.
posted by rebent at 12:02 PM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
I think my favorite part of today so far is Sater's main argument for why he is going to get the Moscow deal done is that he once arranged for Ivanka to sit in Putin's chair.
Please someone do a Game of Thrones type of meme with this with Ivanka as Cersei.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:03 PM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Please someone do a Game of Thrones type of meme with this with Ivanka as Cersei.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:03 PM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
"You might want to go read the trade rag of lawyers - the ABA Journal and the May 1995 article "The Lies Have It" by Mark Curriden. "
You quote this thing from 20 years ago all the time (frequently misciting the year), whether or not it's germane to the conversation, and it doesn't say what you think it does. It's about how prosecutors are reluctant to involve themselves in perjury accusations primarily arising in civil litigation, both because criminal courts are already overburdened, and because civil litigators attempt to use local prosecutors as a tool to advance their civil litigation cases. It's not about lying on the campaign trail, it's not for the most part about perjury in criminal court (and where it is, it's about how harsh sentencing guidelines incentivize perjury and disincline judges to pursue it because the outcome would be unjust), it's not about how all lawyers are liars, or the thousand other things you seem to think that one popular-press article in a mass-market magazine -- not even a scholarly article in an academic journal -- prove.
It's also not remotely relevant to a conversation about the POTUS colluding with the Russians. It might be slightly relevant if you had an example of Trump lying under oath in civil litigation in the early 1990s and escaping prosecution because the prosecutor declined to prosecute. Otherwise, please stop bringing this up every damn time someone mentions lawyers, or testimony, or Congressional hearings, or lying politicians, and acting like it proves a point.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 12:04 PM on August 28, 2017 [72 favorites]
You quote this thing from 20 years ago all the time (frequently misciting the year), whether or not it's germane to the conversation, and it doesn't say what you think it does. It's about how prosecutors are reluctant to involve themselves in perjury accusations primarily arising in civil litigation, both because criminal courts are already overburdened, and because civil litigators attempt to use local prosecutors as a tool to advance their civil litigation cases. It's not about lying on the campaign trail, it's not for the most part about perjury in criminal court (and where it is, it's about how harsh sentencing guidelines incentivize perjury and disincline judges to pursue it because the outcome would be unjust), it's not about how all lawyers are liars, or the thousand other things you seem to think that one popular-press article in a mass-market magazine -- not even a scholarly article in an academic journal -- prove.
It's also not remotely relevant to a conversation about the POTUS colluding with the Russians. It might be slightly relevant if you had an example of Trump lying under oath in civil litigation in the early 1990s and escaping prosecution because the prosecutor declined to prosecute. Otherwise, please stop bringing this up every damn time someone mentions lawyers, or testimony, or Congressional hearings, or lying politicians, and acting like it proves a point.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 12:04 PM on August 28, 2017 [72 favorites]
Haberman adds an interesting detail to the Michael Cohen email story:
posted by zachlipton at 12:05 PM on August 28, 2017
Michael Cohen did indeed email Putin flak Peskov...at a general email addy equivalent to the press@whitehouse.gov. Not Peskov's email.Which doesn't make it remotely right, but it also is a sign that points to Cohen's utter cluelessness here.
It suggests he did not actually have access to Peskov, as opposed to being evidence of his strong connections.
posted by zachlipton at 12:05 PM on August 28, 2017
nubs: "I'm not an American, but I can tell you in Canada a lot of us were questioning what the American people values were the day after the election."
In aggregate, the American people overwhelmingly voted for Hillary Clinton.
posted by schmod at 12:06 PM on August 28, 2017 [74 favorites]
In aggregate, the American people overwhelmingly voted for Hillary Clinton.
posted by schmod at 12:06 PM on August 28, 2017 [74 favorites]
I think pardoning yourself shouldn't be allowed. It's just obstruction of justice covered by another pardon creating a new obstruction cascading forever. But for anyone else this is another case where the real limit to Presidential power is impeachment.
posted by Glibpaxman at 12:08 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Glibpaxman at 12:08 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
That man's name has always reminded me of the Latin palendromic squares - viz
S A T O R
A R E P O
T E N E T
O P E R A
R O T A S
You can't make it work even slightly (well, perhaps you can, I can't) but
S A T E R
F E L I X
F E C I T
D O L O R
P O T U S
has been in my head for months
posted by Devonian at 12:09 PM on August 28, 2017 [33 favorites]
S A T O R
A R E P O
T E N E T
O P E R A
R O T A S
You can't make it work even slightly (well, perhaps you can, I can't) but
S A T E R
F E L I X
F E C I T
D O L O R
P O T U S
has been in my head for months
posted by Devonian at 12:09 PM on August 28, 2017 [33 favorites]
Err forgive my pedantry, but shouldn't 'DOLOR POTUS' be in the accusative case= I.e.,
S A T E R
F E L I X
F E C I T
D O L O R E M
P O T U M
A translation of this phrase would be "Felix Sater makes a sad POTUS."
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 12:17 PM on August 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
S A T E R
F E L I X
F E C I T
D O L O R E M
P O T U M
A translation of this phrase would be "Felix Sater makes a sad POTUS."
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 12:17 PM on August 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
Michael Cohen did indeed email Putin flak Peskov...at a general email addy equivalent to the press@whitehouse.gov. Not Peskov's email.
It suggests he did not actually have access to Peskov, as opposed to being evidence of his strong connections.
Which to me sounds like Cohen was trying to reach Peskov unsolicited, as opposed to his being able to say "Yeah, the guy gave me his work email address and told me to email him about some adoption stuff, so I did."
posted by Rykey at 12:18 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
It suggests he did not actually have access to Peskov, as opposed to being evidence of his strong connections.
Which to me sounds like Cohen was trying to reach Peskov unsolicited, as opposed to his being able to say "Yeah, the guy gave me his work email address and told me to email him about some adoption stuff, so I did."
posted by Rykey at 12:18 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
ROMANES EUNT DOMUS!
posted by Behemoth at 12:18 PM on August 28, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by Behemoth at 12:18 PM on August 28, 2017 [24 favorites]
My favorite part is that Cohen's defense is that the collusion didn't work out, not that it would be, you know, wrong.
In a statement on Monday, Mr. Cohen suggested that he viewed Mr. Sater’s comments as puffery. “He has sometimes used colorful language and has been prone to ‘salesmanship,’” the statement said. “I ultimately determined that the proposal was not feasible and never agreed to make a trip to Russia.”posted by chris24 at 12:18 PM on August 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
Ah yes, the Kiev Protocol.
posted by darkstar at 12:29 PM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by darkstar at 12:29 PM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
He was too cowardly to tell the truth, so would this be the Chicken Kiev Protocol?
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:34 PM on August 28, 2017 [40 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:34 PM on August 28, 2017 [40 favorites]
Oh Cardinal, absolutely the Latin is terrible, it's not right at all, but you have to have the 5x5 format even if the palindrome is just a thousand miles away.
But I really can't help myself. The very first time I read Felix Sater's name, the image formed and stuck. I apologise for the very bad no good 0/10 stay behind after class travesty of the Latin grammar, but here I stand, I can do no other. I think it's the fact that POTUS is so perfectly Latinate.
And he is going to nominate a horse to the Cabinet. You just know it.
posted by Devonian at 12:35 PM on August 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
But I really can't help myself. The very first time I read Felix Sater's name, the image formed and stuck. I apologise for the very bad no good 0/10 stay behind after class travesty of the Latin grammar, but here I stand, I can do no other. I think it's the fact that POTUS is so perfectly Latinate.
And he is going to nominate a horse to the Cabinet. You just know it.
posted by Devonian at 12:35 PM on August 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
I keep reading the latin stuff and my brain starts singing "One Winged Angel" from FF7.
Trump is not classy enough for Ominous Latin Chanting, dammit.
posted by Archelaus at 12:38 PM on August 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
Trump is not classy enough for Ominous Latin Chanting, dammit.
posted by Archelaus at 12:38 PM on August 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
Trump is not classy enough for Ominous Latin Chanting, dammit.
Each fired or discarded goon lends his name and soul to the chant that will herald the metamorphosis of Trump's Final Fleshly Becoming: Priebus..Scaramucci...MANAFORT
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:46 PM on August 28, 2017 [16 favorites]
Each fired or discarded goon lends his name and soul to the chant that will herald the metamorphosis of Trump's Final Fleshly Becoming: Priebus..Scaramucci...MANAFORT
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:46 PM on August 28, 2017 [16 favorites]
It's my impression that the original SATOR square doesn't exactly make perfect grammatical sense either. It's just a fun word game or a magical incantation, depending on who you ask
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:56 PM on August 28, 2017
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:56 PM on August 28, 2017
Marcy Wheeler (emptywheel) ties some dots together in this post: Michael Cohen Starts Not Recalling His Negotiations with Dmitry Peskov, “Main Protagonist” of Campaign Versus Hillary
She zeros in on something that's been bugging me since last night: why are we reading these emails? Per the story, they haven't been turned over to Congressional investigators yet—that's coming soon—, so why were they dropped now? Her theory is that last night's story was a preemptive leak to get everyone talking about a tower, instead of the much more significant story, which is that Sater isn't talking about a building in his emails, he's talking about the Presidency. Sater barely cares about the building except as a means to "buddy our boy can become President of the US and we can engineer it." That Sater is conflating the building and the campaign is really the most alarming thing here.
Wheeler also reminds us that the Steele Dossier has a bit to say about Peskov:
Another important question is what happened that would cause Cohen to send this email to Peskov and then drop the entire Trump Tower Moscow project two weeks later? Not to get too dramatic here, but did they get an offer for something better than a tower?
posted by zachlipton at 1:05 PM on August 28, 2017 [50 favorites]
She zeros in on something that's been bugging me since last night: why are we reading these emails? Per the story, they haven't been turned over to Congressional investigators yet—that's coming soon—, so why were they dropped now? Her theory is that last night's story was a preemptive leak to get everyone talking about a tower, instead of the much more significant story, which is that Sater isn't talking about a building in his emails, he's talking about the Presidency. Sater barely cares about the building except as a means to "buddy our boy can become President of the US and we can engineer it." That Sater is conflating the building and the campaign is really the most alarming thing here.
Wheeler also reminds us that the Steele Dossier has a bit to say about Peskov:
Presidential spokesman PESKOV the main protagonist in Kremlin campaign to aid TRUMP and damage CLINTON. He is now scared and fears being made scapegoat by leadership for backlash in US. Problem compounded by his botched intervention in recent Turkish crisis.Cohen didn't just reach out to a random official; he emailed the official who allegedly was the center of the propaganda campaign against Trump's opponent.
Another important question is what happened that would cause Cohen to send this email to Peskov and then drop the entire Trump Tower Moscow project two weeks later? Not to get too dramatic here, but did they get an offer for something better than a tower?
posted by zachlipton at 1:05 PM on August 28, 2017 [50 favorites]
Hillary is coming to Toronto later this month. Who here has heard her speak? The tickets are pricey - is it worth it? I'm tempted to treat myself.
posted by obliquity of the ecliptic at 1:12 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by obliquity of the ecliptic at 1:12 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
I want to see her in Chicago and just got on the presale list but I'm scared to know how much tix will be. I'm certain I can't afford it.
posted by agregoli at 1:14 PM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by agregoli at 1:14 PM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
> did they get an offer for something better than a tower?
Rosneft shares are way easier obfuscated than a massive gilt-encrusted skyscraper with "Trump" emblazoned in metre high lettering to be sure.
Which actually makes me doubt a little.
They aren't a bunch to take the path less spectacularly dumb.
posted by Buntix at 1:23 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Rosneft shares are way easier obfuscated than a massive gilt-encrusted skyscraper with "Trump" emblazoned in metre high lettering to be sure.
Which actually makes me doubt a little.
They aren't a bunch to take the path less spectacularly dumb.
posted by Buntix at 1:23 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Everyone in this affair is acting simultaneously A) Guilty as hell and B) As though they've done absolutely nothing wrong. The fact that Sater and Cohen are running around giving comment and interviews to reporters speaks that they aren't so scared about getting caught that they will go to ground, and yet the nature of their comment seems to continually be one of "yeah, we tried, but it didn't pan out," seemingly angling toward a defense wherein Russia just took it upon themselves to assist Trump, and they therefore bear zero responsibility.
This is one fear I have--that despite asking for help and then receiving it, the narrative that wins will be that because they didn't directly coordinate (and that's an "if"), they have done no wrong.
posted by Room 101 at 1:25 PM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
This is one fear I have--that despite asking for help and then receiving it, the narrative that wins will be that because they didn't directly coordinate (and that's an "if"), they have done no wrong.
posted by Room 101 at 1:25 PM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Everyone in this affair is acting simultaneously A) Guilty as hell and B) As though they've done absolutely nothing wrong.
Occam's Razor: they are extremely stupid.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:26 PM on August 28, 2017 [42 favorites]
Occam's Razor: they are extremely stupid.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:26 PM on August 28, 2017 [42 favorites]
Everyone in this affair is acting simultaneously A) Guilty as hell and B) As though they've done absolutely nothing wrong.
When you're guilty as hell, often your only choice (outside of admitting your guilt) is acting as though you've done absolutely wrong, until you can't anymore. It's pretty much SOP for slimy people.
posted by Rykey at 1:28 PM on August 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
When you're guilty as hell, often your only choice (outside of admitting your guilt) is acting as though you've done absolutely wrong, until you can't anymore. It's pretty much SOP for slimy people.
posted by Rykey at 1:28 PM on August 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
Occam's Razor: they are extremely stupid.
Further Occam's razor-- they are also rich and powerful and used to getting their way. Which explains both of the aforementioned behavior patterns.
posted by cell divide at 1:28 PM on August 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
Further Occam's razor-- they are also rich and powerful and used to getting their way. Which explains both of the aforementioned behavior patterns.
posted by cell divide at 1:28 PM on August 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
Occam's Razor: they are extremely stupid.
"The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand." -- All the President's Men
posted by zachlipton at 1:28 PM on August 28, 2017 [61 favorites]
"The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand." -- All the President's Men
posted by zachlipton at 1:28 PM on August 28, 2017 [61 favorites]
This is one fear I have--that despite asking for help and then receiving it, the narrative that wins will be that because they didn't directly coordinate (and that's an "if"), they have done no wrong.
I expect that Mueller's way beyond that and is documenting in great detail the flow of phone calls, emails, other communications and THE MONEY. Keep in mind that the root-cause of all this is laundering Russian stolen money through real-estate deals, and there's no narrative that can compete against that.
I expect Mueller-mas ( Indictment Drop ) starts in 3 - 4 weeks.
posted by mikelieman at 1:29 PM on August 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
I expect that Mueller's way beyond that and is documenting in great detail the flow of phone calls, emails, other communications and THE MONEY. Keep in mind that the root-cause of all this is laundering Russian stolen money through real-estate deals, and there's no narrative that can compete against that.
I expect Mueller-mas ( Indictment Drop ) starts in 3 - 4 weeks.
posted by mikelieman at 1:29 PM on August 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
And he is going to nominate a horse to the Cabinet. You just know it.
A horse would literally be more capable than most of his current Cabinet.
Rick Perry? Ben Carson? Betsy Devos?
posted by Glibpaxman at 1:29 PM on August 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
A horse would literally be more capable than most of his current Cabinet.
Rick Perry? Ben Carson? Betsy Devos?
posted by Glibpaxman at 1:29 PM on August 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
Which actually makes me doubt a little.
They aren't a bunch to take the path less spectacularly dumb.
Occam's Razor: they are extremely stupid.
Putin is not stupid, and Rosneft is presumably his baby.
posted by stonepharisee at 1:29 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
They aren't a bunch to take the path less spectacularly dumb.
Occam's Razor: they are extremely stupid.
Putin is not stupid, and Rosneft is presumably his baby.
posted by stonepharisee at 1:29 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
I don't know why I'm listening to Donald Trump right now. I really fucking don't. His rah rah tone about how we're doing a terrific job with the hurricane, the super super stupid way he ad libs by repeating the ends of lines he thinks are super cool.
posted by angrycat at 1:30 PM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 1:30 PM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Ah well, thanks anyway zachlipton.
posted by Melismata at 1:30 PM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 1:30 PM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
I don't know if it's going to be Muellere'en, or Muellersgiving, or Muellukkah, or Muellerhog Day, but please, pleeeeeease don't let it all just be a tease.
posted by darkstar at 1:30 PM on August 28, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by darkstar at 1:30 PM on August 28, 2017 [16 favorites]
I expect Mueller-mas ( Indictment Drop ) starts in 3 - 4 weeks.
Based on anything in particular, or just wishful thinking?
posted by jammer at 1:30 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Based on anything in particular, or just wishful thinking?
posted by jammer at 1:30 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Josh Marshall's latest take on Sater/Cohen/Trump Tower-Moscow story: Boom! Taking Stock of the Wild New Michael Cohen News
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 1:32 PM on August 28, 2017 [51 favorites]
We have been told – not credibly – for more than a year that Donald Trump doesn’t have any properties or business interests in Russia. But for the first six months of his presidential campaign he was actively trying to secure a deal to build a Trump Tower in Moscow and in early 2016 a top Trump business executive solicited the assistance of one of Vladimir Putin’s top aides in making the deal happen. This of course was happening while Trump was singing Putin’s praises on the campaign trail.Also remember that Sater and Cohen grew up in the same area and somehow both ended up working for Donald Trump in the 2000s. These men have extensive business interests in Ukraine and links to the post-Soviet organized crime world. As Marcy Wheeler (ht/t zachlipton) noted--the email seem to be coming from inside the house in order to obscure more damaging details. The truth about these "deals" is probably way more sordid and damaging that we are being lead to believe.
This is, to put it mildly, a big deal. [...]
Why is this all coming out now? The Post stories are quite clear on this. The Trump Organization had what seems to have been a deadline to turn over lots of Trump Organization emails in response to congressional requests or subpoenas. These leaks seem to be coming from the Trump Organization or at least from that direction if not literally from there. At least in yesterday’s Post report, the emails were referred to as in the process of being turned over. If I’m understanding the language, they had not been turned over yet. That means they couldn’t have come from Congress and strongly suggests they were leaked by lawyers on the Trump Organization. That would mean they were trying to get the story out with the best possible spin in advance of congressional investigators getting their hands on them.
What does this mean? Hard to say. But it would seem that this was an effort to get the bad stuff out early and on the Trump Organization’s own terms. In other words, this is the most generous possible take on what these emails show. I can only imagine what they’ll look like on an adverse view.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 1:32 PM on August 28, 2017 [51 favorites]
don't let it all just be a tease
Remember Fitzmas.
posted by LarsC at 1:33 PM on August 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
Remember Fitzmas.
posted by LarsC at 1:33 PM on August 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
Based on anything in particular, or just wishful thinking?
NOTHING IN PARTICULAR, but in my career in insurance, finance, and banking IT, I've developed a sense that when it's Plain-Old-Money-Laundering-And-Fraud, documenting the details of guys who 'just aren't all that smart' isn't a huge challenge.
The variable -- I think -- is how many and how far up the ladder Mueller wants to go. My, stupid-wild-ass-guess is that Manaforte, Flynn, Kushner may have been flipped already in some combination, so do they go for a Smoking Gun with Donald, or use the pressure of putting his daughter in prison to force a resignation.
I mean, their experience always being kow-towed to and being able to bluster your way through in the BUSINESS WORLD, don't work for shit in a court.
That old clip of Trump being asked about Salter is Trump in his prime. He cycles through every mode we're familiar with, then storms out.
"Bailiff, restrain the witness... "
posted by mikelieman at 1:36 PM on August 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
NOTHING IN PARTICULAR, but in my career in insurance, finance, and banking IT, I've developed a sense that when it's Plain-Old-Money-Laundering-And-Fraud, documenting the details of guys who 'just aren't all that smart' isn't a huge challenge.
The variable -- I think -- is how many and how far up the ladder Mueller wants to go. My, stupid-wild-ass-guess is that Manaforte, Flynn, Kushner may have been flipped already in some combination, so do they go for a Smoking Gun with Donald, or use the pressure of putting his daughter in prison to force a resignation.
I mean, their experience always being kow-towed to and being able to bluster your way through in the BUSINESS WORLD, don't work for shit in a court.
That old clip of Trump being asked about Salter is Trump in his prime. He cycles through every mode we're familiar with, then storms out.
"Bailiff, restrain the witness... "
posted by mikelieman at 1:36 PM on August 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
But for the first six months of his presidential campaign he was actively trying to secure a deal to build a Trump Tower in Moscow
Which in reality means, "trying to put his name on a building that was going to be built by some mobbed-up creep [name unknown]," right?
posted by rhizome at 1:37 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Which in reality means, "trying to put his name on a building that was going to be built by some mobbed-up creep [name unknown]," right?
posted by rhizome at 1:37 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trump is asked by Finnish Broadcasting if he consideres Russia to be a security threat, citing Russian fighters buzzing their country.
His answer: "Well I consider many countries as a security threat."
posted by zachlipton at 1:39 PM on August 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
His answer: "Well I consider many countries as a security threat."
posted by zachlipton at 1:39 PM on August 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
His answer: "Well I consider many countries as a security threat."
BOTH! SIDES!
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:40 PM on August 28, 2017 [45 favorites]
BOTH! SIDES!
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:40 PM on August 28, 2017 [45 favorites]
Did Trump just talk about ratings when asked about Arpaio and the hurricane? Can someone explain what he was on about? I didn't understand...
posted by Justinian at 1:42 PM on August 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 1:42 PM on August 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
Yes. He just said he thought the ratings would be "far higher than they would be normally" when he pardoned Arpaio because of the hurricane.
posted by zachlipton at 1:43 PM on August 28, 2017 [33 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 1:43 PM on August 28, 2017 [33 favorites]
“There have been invasions of Ukraine on both sides.”
posted by XMLicious at 1:43 PM on August 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by XMLicious at 1:43 PM on August 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
Everyone in this affair is acting simultaneously A) Guilty as hell and B) As though they've done absolutely nothing wrong.
Occam's Razor: they are extremely stupid.
They know a huge portion of the establishment--which still has real power--is seriously, raging mad at them for what they did. And they know what they did. The thing is, they're shocked that people in power are mad, because they're not used to that. They're not used to being held accountable for their actions. And they certainly haven't done enough self-examination to ask themselves, "Are We the Baddies?"
Putin is not stupid, and Rosneft is presumably his baby.
Putin is not stupid, no. I have to believe Putin knew how incredibly fucking dumb Trump and his crew are, though. It's not that Putin didn't see the risks in using Trump; it's that Putin doesn't care. Remember, his real goal isn't conquest or acquisition (though he sure as hell acquired a lot in this election). His goal is disruption. He doesn't expect to be welcomed into the international community after this. He wants to destroy that community and wreck those bonds. If that means exposing himself as the instigator, so be it. The damage is still done, so he still gets what he wanted.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:43 PM on August 28, 2017 [29 favorites]
Occam's Razor: they are extremely stupid.
They know a huge portion of the establishment--which still has real power--is seriously, raging mad at them for what they did. And they know what they did. The thing is, they're shocked that people in power are mad, because they're not used to that. They're not used to being held accountable for their actions. And they certainly haven't done enough self-examination to ask themselves, "Are We the Baddies?"
Putin is not stupid, and Rosneft is presumably his baby.
Putin is not stupid, no. I have to believe Putin knew how incredibly fucking dumb Trump and his crew are, though. It's not that Putin didn't see the risks in using Trump; it's that Putin doesn't care. Remember, his real goal isn't conquest or acquisition (though he sure as hell acquired a lot in this election). His goal is disruption. He doesn't expect to be welcomed into the international community after this. He wants to destroy that community and wreck those bonds. If that means exposing himself as the instigator, so be it. The damage is still done, so he still gets what he wanted.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:43 PM on August 28, 2017 [29 favorites]
He is now reading off a list of controversial pardons, starting with Marc Rich, to explain why it's ok that he pardoned Arpaio. This is the ultimate in whataboutism.
posted by zachlipton at 1:45 PM on August 28, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 1:45 PM on August 28, 2017 [17 favorites]
Video of the soon-to-be-renowned "ratings" line
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:47 PM on August 28, 2017 [33 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:47 PM on August 28, 2017 [33 favorites]
Arpaio's lawyers have filed a motion to dismiss; you can read it here (via Big Cases Bot). Brad Heath (USAToday) has a thread on some of the legal issues.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:48 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by melissasaurus at 1:48 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trump, standing next to the president of Finland, is saying that in relation to Russia he can't wait for the Finlandization of the United States.
posted by XMLicious at 1:50 PM on August 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by XMLicious at 1:50 PM on August 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
Trump just called for another question, asked the Finnish President to pick, then Trump said "again? you're going to call on her again?" not realizing he was pointing to a different Finnish journalist. The Finnish President had to explain they were different women sitting side-by-side, and the reporter said there are "a lot of blonde women in Finland."
posted by zachlipton at 1:50 PM on August 28, 2017 [64 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 1:50 PM on August 28, 2017 [64 favorites]
The president was annoyed that people accused him of pardoning the racist sheriff during the hurricane to bury the news, so he comes out and says he pardoned the racist sheriff during the hurricane because "the ratings would be higher". Year of our Lord Twenty-Seventeen.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:51 PM on August 28, 2017 [80 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:51 PM on August 28, 2017 [80 favorites]
Putin is not stupid, no. I have to believe Putin knew how incredibly fucking dumb Trump and his crew are, though. It's not that Putin didn't see the risks in using Trump; it's that Putin doesn't care. Remember, his real goal isn't conquest or acquisition (though he sure as hell acquired a lot in this election). His goal is disruption.
This. And it is telling that a lot of international business types are embracing disruption as a way to make sense of Trump
posted by mumimor at 1:51 PM on August 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
This. And it is telling that a lot of international business types are embracing disruption as a way to make sense of Trump
posted by mumimor at 1:51 PM on August 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
Yes. He just said he thought the ratings would be "far higher than they would be normally" when he pardoned Arpaio because of the hurricane.
posted by zachlipton at 9:43 PM on August 28 [3 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]
I'm gonna go with [real] and not bother checking that one.
posted by stonepharisee at 1:52 PM on August 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 9:43 PM on August 28 [3 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]
I'm gonna go with [real] and not bother checking that one.
posted by stonepharisee at 1:52 PM on August 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
"a lot of blonde women in Finland."
Cue a ten-minute "Land of Chocolate" fantasy montage inside Trump's head, only much grosser.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:52 PM on August 28, 2017 [26 favorites]
Cue a ten-minute "Land of Chocolate" fantasy montage inside Trump's head, only much grosser.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:52 PM on August 28, 2017 [26 favorites]
Trump, standing next to the president of Finland, is saying that in relation to Russia he can't wait for the Finlandization of the United States.
What?!?!?
posted by mumimor at 1:53 PM on August 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
What?!?!?
posted by mumimor at 1:53 PM on August 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
Trump, standing next to the president of Finland, is saying that in relation to Russia he can't wait for the Finlandization of the United States.
next up, standing next to the president of the czech republic, trump says that in relation to russia he can't wait for the sudatenlandization of the united states [fake, so far]
posted by murphy slaw at 1:53 PM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
next up, standing next to the president of the czech republic, trump says that in relation to russia he can't wait for the sudatenlandization of the united states [fake, so far]
posted by murphy slaw at 1:53 PM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
>
He didn't literally use the word "Finlandization", just said that he would like for the United States to one day have the same sort of good relationship with Russia that Finland does.
posted by XMLicious at 1:55 PM on August 28, 2017 [21 favorites]
Trump, standing next to the president of Finland, is saying that in relation to Russia he can't wait for the Finlandization of the United States.
What?!?!?
He didn't literally use the word "Finlandization", just said that he would like for the United States to one day have the same sort of good relationship with Russia that Finland does.
posted by XMLicious at 1:55 PM on August 28, 2017 [21 favorites]
> I mean, their experience always being kow-towed to and being able to bluster your way through in the BUSINESS WORLD, don't work for shit in a court.
Hopefully it won't this time*, but Trump's interaction with the legal system (pre-coup) has mostly been gaming it as a tool against his opponents/creditors. Since usurping the presidency he's been sued ~135 times (albeit some fairly speculatively).
I wouldn't go as far as to say the legal system is non-existent, but it is a long way from colour and class/money blind, and he's top of the midden that it's biased towards.
* Getting him gone is a priority, but I can see him and his coterie skating (assuming Putin doesn't arrange for them to accidentally heart-attack themselves in the back repeatedly down a flight of stairs to avoid any evidence coming out that might bolster and increase the scope of the Magnitsky act).
posted by Buntix at 1:55 PM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Hopefully it won't this time*, but Trump's interaction with the legal system (pre-coup) has mostly been gaming it as a tool against his opponents/creditors. Since usurping the presidency he's been sued ~135 times (albeit some fairly speculatively).
I wouldn't go as far as to say the legal system is non-existent, but it is a long way from colour and class/money blind, and he's top of the midden that it's biased towards.
* Getting him gone is a priority, but I can see him and his coterie skating (assuming Putin doesn't arrange for them to accidentally heart-attack themselves in the back repeatedly down a flight of stairs to avoid any evidence coming out that might bolster and increase the scope of the Magnitsky act).
posted by Buntix at 1:55 PM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Trump just said that "tremendous drugs are pouring into the country." Where are these tremendous drugs? Show me the tremendous drugs!
posted by Lyme Drop at 1:55 PM on August 28, 2017 [56 favorites]
posted by Lyme Drop at 1:55 PM on August 28, 2017 [56 favorites]
Thanks to the reporters from Fox News and One America News Network (yes, really, Trump even praised his network, though the dude did ask some decent followups) for wasting an entire press conference without asking about Sater, Cohen, or Russia.
posted by zachlipton at 1:55 PM on August 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 1:55 PM on August 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
Pretty much every day I think about the line in the new Ghostbusters where Holtzmann jokes, "It's 2040, the president is a plant!" and realize that's probably the preferable timeline.
posted by skycrashesdown at 1:56 PM on August 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by skycrashesdown at 1:56 PM on August 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
unfortunately trump appears to be using up all the tremendous drugs by his lonesome
posted by murphy slaw at 1:57 PM on August 28, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 1:57 PM on August 28, 2017 [12 favorites]
One America News Network is an American cable news television channel that is owned by Herring Networks, Inc.
Something fishy about this
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:58 PM on August 28, 2017 [26 favorites]
Something fishy about this
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:58 PM on August 28, 2017 [26 favorites]
Goddamnit, the President of the United States is a fucking crazy man. Some days it pisses me off so much.
posted by angrycat at 1:58 PM on August 28, 2017 [52 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 1:58 PM on August 28, 2017 [52 favorites]
he can't wait for the Finlandization of the United States
If he means "a terrific education system, baby boxes, universal health care, and a friendly climate for women's rights" then bring it on. But I know that's not what Cheeto means.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 1:59 PM on August 28, 2017 [27 favorites]
If he means "a terrific education system, baby boxes, universal health care, and a friendly climate for women's rights" then bring it on. But I know that's not what Cheeto means.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 1:59 PM on August 28, 2017 [27 favorites]
Yglesias, re: Finlandization:
Trump’s understand of the history of Russia-Finland relationship is not very good.posted by tonycpsu at 2:00 PM on August 28, 2017 [52 favorites]
To oversimplify a little: Finland gained independence from Russia as part of the aftermath of World War I and the Russian Revolution.
Then in the winter of 1939-1940, the USSR attacked Finland — which turned out to be a more formidable adversary than Stalin thought.
Nonetheless, Finland was forced to give up territory to the USSR.
Then after Hitler attacked the USSR, Finland tried to get revenge.
Obviously Germany (and thus Finland) lost the war. Afterwards, Finland retained independence from Moscow — but they paid a steep price.
Throughout the Cold War, Finnish foreign policy was essentially dominated by Soviet priorities and this bled into internal self-censorship.
So tl;dr citing Finland as an example of a healthy independence from Russia is … problematic.
It's 2040, the president is a plant!
Wait, a Soviet sleeper agent plant, or a plant plant?
¿Por que no los dos?
posted by kirkaracha at 2:01 PM on August 28, 2017 [15 favorites]
Wait, a Soviet sleeper agent plant, or a plant plant?
whynotboth?.gif
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:04 PM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
whynotboth?.gif
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:04 PM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Trump just called for another question, asked the Finnish President to pick, then Trump said "again? you're going to call on her again?" not realizing he was pointing to a different Finnish journalist. The Finnish President had to explain they were different women sitting side-by-side, and the reporter said there are "a lot of blonde women in Finland."
And here's that clip for you.
(Truly flattered by those of you who think I could be a good enough writer to make up anything nearly as crazy as reality these days.)
posted by zachlipton at 2:06 PM on August 28, 2017 [18 favorites]
And here's that clip for you.
(Truly flattered by those of you who think I could be a good enough writer to make up anything nearly as crazy as reality these days.)
posted by zachlipton at 2:06 PM on August 28, 2017 [18 favorites]
2016 : 2017 :: "Leprechaun" : "Leprechaun - Back 2 Tha Hood"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:09 PM on August 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:09 PM on August 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
So tl;dr citing Finland as an example of a healthy independence from Russia is … problematic.
I wouldn't be surprised if this line was fed to him by Putin personally.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:10 PM on August 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
I wouldn't be surprised if this line was fed to him by Putin personally.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:10 PM on August 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
Can I just say thank Christ the two reporters Trump got mixed up are white (this time)?
posted by Rykey at 2:11 PM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Rykey at 2:11 PM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
The Finnish President's expression is the new normal for heads of state who somehow get themselves involved with Trump. Like "I knew this would be bad, but I had no idea anything could be this bad"
posted by mumimor at 2:12 PM on August 28, 2017 [39 favorites]
posted by mumimor at 2:12 PM on August 28, 2017 [39 favorites]
Cue a ten-minute "Land of Chocolate" fantasy montage inside Trump's head, only much grosser.
Alf Clausen's awesome "The Land of Chocolate" has been my ringtone FOREVER, so I will pretend I never read this.
posted by mikelieman at 2:14 PM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Alf Clausen's awesome "The Land of Chocolate" has been my ringtone FOREVER, so I will pretend I never read this.
posted by mikelieman at 2:14 PM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
2017 : 2018 "Leprechaun - Back 2 Tha Hood" : "Leprechaun in Space"
That should be fun.
posted by stonepharisee at 2:15 PM on August 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
That should be fun.
posted by stonepharisee at 2:15 PM on August 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
NK appears to have launched a missile towards Japan
Can the toddlers stop pissing up the wall now, please?
posted by Buntix at 2:17 PM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Can the toddlers stop pissing up the wall now, please?
posted by Buntix at 2:17 PM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
You can get a taste of how complex the dance the Finns did between West and East from this overview of the cryptoanalytic history of the state.
Anything you read about Finnish foreign relations in the 20th century is going to be a huge simplification, and most probably wrong. At least, that's my working MO.
posted by Devonian at 2:17 PM on August 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
Anything you read about Finnish foreign relations in the 20th century is going to be a huge simplification, and most probably wrong. At least, that's my working MO.
posted by Devonian at 2:17 PM on August 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
NHK nightly news via PBS in the U.S. just broke into its broadcast to announce that the Japanese government is warning the population in the Tōhoku region and surrounding areas that North Korea has fired a missile towards the country and telling people to take shelter in solid buildings or underground shelters.
posted by XMLicious at 2:18 PM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by XMLicious at 2:18 PM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Re: not being able to tell the reporters apart. I'm sure that Trump's recent staring at the sun episode isn't helping him to be able to see details. Both those blobs were blonde!
posted by thebrokedown at 2:19 PM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by thebrokedown at 2:19 PM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
#BREAKING Japanese media says the missile fired by #NorthKorea has now passed over Japan. Question is...where is it due to land?!
[Sky News Editor tweet]
posted by Buntix at 2:22 PM on August 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
[Sky News Editor tweet]
posted by Buntix at 2:22 PM on August 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
But if DPRK annihiliates Guam during a hurricane, can you even imagine the ratings
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:24 PM on August 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:24 PM on August 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
Finland's position in the Cold War was so complicated and nuanced that I can't even imagine what Trump's understanding of it must be. Like... how do you give him a one paragraph explanation, preferably referencing himself, and with a pretty chart or something?
posted by Justinian at 2:24 PM on August 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 2:24 PM on August 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
Looking like the Pacific Ocean east of Japan, not Guam is the likely landing spot.
posted by zachlipton at 2:27 PM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 2:27 PM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
JFC I'm gone for a couple of hours doing other things and I come back to all this? Making a damn fool of us in front of the Finnish PM, describing the pardon in terms of ratings vs the fucking hurricane and now NK are firing over Japanese territory?
It just never fucking ends.
posted by Talez at 2:28 PM on August 28, 2017 [20 favorites]
It just never fucking ends.
posted by Talez at 2:28 PM on August 28, 2017 [20 favorites]
NHK confirming that the missile passed over the country instead of striking and say that it was launched at 6:06 AM Japan time.
posted by XMLicious at 2:28 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by XMLicious at 2:28 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
So when we say "missile", we're not talking about nuclear missiles, right? Just regular explodey ones?
posted by Frowner at 2:30 PM on August 28, 2017
posted by Frowner at 2:30 PM on August 28, 2017
So when we say "missile", we're not talking about nuclear missiles, right? Just regular explodey ones?
I doubt they would waste a nuclear payload unless they really meant it. Chances are these missles have only conventional if any explosives on them.
posted by dis_integration at 2:32 PM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
I doubt they would waste a nuclear payload unless they really meant it. Chances are these missles have only conventional if any explosives on them.
posted by dis_integration at 2:32 PM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
The (English-language) NHK World news that is broadcast here in the U.S. just said "missile", though they also displayed the warning message that was broadcast on domestic television—in Japanese, which I can't speak or read.
posted by XMLicious at 2:33 PM on August 28, 2017
posted by XMLicious at 2:33 PM on August 28, 2017
What in the ever-living fuck is the DPRK doing? This is a botched test, right?
So when we say "missile", we're not talking about nuclear missiles, right? Just regular explodey ones?
I mean....who the hell knows? (For the moment.) If this wasn't a mistake then it was either a demonstration, in which case it probably had no warhead at all, or else a failed attack in which case it wouldn't make much sense to deliver a conventional warhead.
posted by snuffleupagus at 2:33 PM on August 28, 2017
So when we say "missile", we're not talking about nuclear missiles, right? Just regular explodey ones?
I mean....who the hell knows? (For the moment.) If this wasn't a mistake then it was either a demonstration, in which case it probably had no warhead at all, or else a failed attack in which case it wouldn't make much sense to deliver a conventional warhead.
posted by snuffleupagus at 2:33 PM on August 28, 2017
"So when we say "missile", we're not talking about nuclear missiles, right? Just regular explodey ones?"
If it were a nuclear missile, the US would have already launched a response.
These are (usually) missiles that can carry either a conventional load or a nuclear warhead. Many of these NK launches are just tests of the missiles themselves, with no payload. The point is to scare enemies/rivals by showing they have the technological capability to launch a missile that COULD carry a payload.
There are really three parts to missile technology: being able to make the payload, being able to accurately fire the missile (whether cruise or ballistic), and being able to mount the payload on a missile and have it explode at the appropriate moment (it's a lot easier to blow up a suitcase nuke than to get a missile nuke to explode at the right time). These exercises are about "look how far we've gotten on part II."
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 2:34 PM on August 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
If it were a nuclear missile, the US would have already launched a response.
These are (usually) missiles that can carry either a conventional load or a nuclear warhead. Many of these NK launches are just tests of the missiles themselves, with no payload. The point is to scare enemies/rivals by showing they have the technological capability to launch a missile that COULD carry a payload.
There are really three parts to missile technology: being able to make the payload, being able to accurately fire the missile (whether cruise or ballistic), and being able to mount the payload on a missile and have it explode at the appropriate moment (it's a lot easier to blow up a suitcase nuke than to get a missile nuke to explode at the right time). These exercises are about "look how far we've gotten on part II."
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 2:34 PM on August 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
>It just never fucking ends.
AP: Alito Temporarily Blocks New Texas Congressional Map
posted by Mister Fabulous at 2:34 PM on August 28, 2017 [15 favorites]
AP: Alito Temporarily Blocks New Texas Congressional Map
posted by Mister Fabulous at 2:34 PM on August 28, 2017 [15 favorites]
If it were a nuclear missile, the US would have already launched a response.
How would they know? Serious question.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:39 PM on August 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
How would they know? Serious question.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:39 PM on August 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
The Guardian: Lurid Trump allegations made by Louise Mensch and co-writer came from hoaxer
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:41 PM on August 28, 2017 [16 favorites]
- Mensch and Claude Taylor tweeted details of criminal inquires that didn’t exist
- Hoaxer who fed information said she acted out of frustration over fake news
- Taylor issues mea culpa on Twitter after being approached by Guardian
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:41 PM on August 28, 2017 [16 favorites]
Also, no, we wouldn't have. It's not like we're poised to annihilate NK cause they fired one missile.
I know this stuff is scary, but please don't jump to panicked statements.
posted by agregoli at 2:41 PM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
I know this stuff is scary, but please don't jump to panicked statements.
posted by agregoli at 2:41 PM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Here's some information about ICBMs and what North Korea is trying to do. ICBMs are fired into suborbital space -- they're not appreciably different from, say, the Saturn V rockets that took early space missions up, the technology's basically the same, they even typically have multi-stage rockets and drop off the used-up fuel tanks before firing the next booster -- and have to protect their payload from the heat of reentry (or lose it in the upper atmosphere where it does little good as a weapon). We do not currently have technology to defend against ICBMs, which is why they're so scary (although cruise missiles with guidance systems are newer technology). My understanding is that North Korean can probably build a suitcase nuke; their ICBMs are advancing and these tests are about showing they're getting closer on ICBMs; but that final stage -- mounting a warhead on a missile, protecting it in reentry, and triggering it appropriately -- is beyond their capabilities for the moment.
I think they also require fuel advances to be able to launch a real payload at the US? But I don't know a whole lot about rocket fuel. My impression is that these are "kind-of small" as missiles go and couldn't carry a huge payload and they need higher-energy fuel for larger rockets to threaten North America for real.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 2:43 PM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think they also require fuel advances to be able to launch a real payload at the US? But I don't know a whole lot about rocket fuel. My impression is that these are "kind-of small" as missiles go and couldn't carry a huge payload and they need higher-energy fuel for larger rockets to threaten North America for real.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 2:43 PM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
There won't be a warhead, conventional or nuclear, in that missile (or those missiles, some reports say three were fired simultaneously). There may be a lump of concrete or somesuch to get the flight dynamics right - this is just a demonstration of capability, not an actual attack designed to actually kill people.
Because that would be an act of war against Japan, and that would end up in the destruction of North Korea.
posted by Devonian at 2:43 PM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Because that would be an act of war against Japan, and that would end up in the destruction of North Korea.
posted by Devonian at 2:43 PM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
"Also, no, we wouldn't have. It's not like we're poised to annihilate NK cause they fired one missile."
"this is just a demonstration of capability, not an actual attack designed to actually kill people. Because that would be an act of war against Japan, and that would end up in the destruction of North Korea."
Yes, exactly. If there were any suspicion that there was a live warhead (convention or nuclear) on the missile, we'd already being having big serious generals and secretaries of defense on TV pre-empting programming and telling us what just happened. It wouldn't just be scary regular news on CNN. I don't mean, like, "we'd have nuked North Korea to pieces" but that the militaries of the world would already be mobilizing and responding and we'd already be hearing about the situation from actual officials, rather than talking heads.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 2:47 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
"this is just a demonstration of capability, not an actual attack designed to actually kill people. Because that would be an act of war against Japan, and that would end up in the destruction of North Korea."
Yes, exactly. If there were any suspicion that there was a live warhead (convention or nuclear) on the missile, we'd already being having big serious generals and secretaries of defense on TV pre-empting programming and telling us what just happened. It wouldn't just be scary regular news on CNN. I don't mean, like, "we'd have nuked North Korea to pieces" but that the militaries of the world would already be mobilizing and responding and we'd already be hearing about the situation from actual officials, rather than talking heads.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 2:47 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Can I just say thank Christ the two reporters Trump got mixed up are white (this time)?
In America, Finns were not always considered white.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 2:47 PM on August 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
In America, Finns were not always considered white.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 2:47 PM on August 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
(Ha ha, looking back, "launched a response" was the worst possible turn of phrase for the idea of "put in motion a military response of some sort which may or may not involve missiles and may or may not be large scale." Sorry!)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 2:49 PM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 2:49 PM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
For North Korea to be able to hit the US would require serious advances. However, with their existing technology, their range includes about two billion people. They could probably get by (for whatever values of “getting by” they have) making CG videos of New York in flames to keep America on edge (perhaps throw in some scenes of Big Ben or the Eiffel Tower exploding in there to spook the Europeans if needed) whilst demonstrating an ability to hit, say, Singapore or Mumbai.
posted by acb at 2:58 PM on August 28, 2017
posted by acb at 2:58 PM on August 28, 2017
Louise Mensch, using an unvetted single source to spread conspiracy theories to keep liberal bellies full (while still having an active e-mail account with a Murdoch company)? I am shooketh.
posted by Yowser at 3:00 PM on August 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 3:00 PM on August 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
Twitter link re: Mensch's open email account.
posted by Yowser at 3:03 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Yowser at 3:03 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
This missile launch is kind of astonishing. Some of the key pieces of information that I have yet to see reported definitively are the actual trajectory and landing points of the missile(s) as well as their type(s). Unless North Korea comes forward with it as an accident of some kind pretty quickly, this is a provocative act no matter how you look at it, but the level of provocation can quickly ramp up with certain combinations of missiles and trajectories.
posted by feloniousmonk at 3:10 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by feloniousmonk at 3:10 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
US government burying head deeper in sand on climate change (John Timmer for Ars Technica, Aug. 28, 2017)
posted by filthy light thief at 3:12 PM on August 28, 2017 [28 favorites]
It's no secret that President Trump came into office rejecting the conclusions of the vast majority of the world's scientists when it comes to our changing climate. But it wasn't clear how that would translate to policy. At least some of his advisors, as well as his daughter, accept the conclusions of the scientific community. And there was the possibility that policy decisions would be constrained by reality, as Trump was sworn in as the most recent global temperature records were set.The long-delayed release of the Department of Energy's evaluation of grid stability doesn't mention "climate change" or "global warming," and is watered down from a draft of the expert evaluation that leaked back in June.
Over the past few weeks, however, it has become increasingly clear that there has been extensive push back against climate change throughout the government, with several push backs occurring in the last week alone. We'll review those briefly below.
In fact, the report recommends the anti-solution of increasing the use of coal-fired power plants.Emphasis mine - and that's right, the president is so scared of mentioning climate change and global warming that it's a restriction placed on his budget language. Maybe someone told him that global warming is like Candyman or Beetlejuice, and is summoned upon repeated reference.
Amazingly, however, that report was not what drove the DOE to deny that it had banned the use of the term "climate change." Instead, that was triggered by Jennifer Bowen, a biology researcher at Northeastern University whose research is funded in part by the DOE. On Thursday, Bowen posted a screenshot of correspondence she received from the office at the DOE responsible for her grant. The e-mail reads in part:I have been asked to contact you to update the wording in your proposal abstract to remove words such as "global warming" or "climate change." This is being asked as we have to meet the President's budget language restrictions and don't want to make any changes without your knowledge or consent.
posted by filthy light thief at 3:12 PM on August 28, 2017 [28 favorites]
I think it's obvious the neofascists have been massing in dark corners of the internet and talking to each other over the past few years.
Not so much in the dark, either. People were pointing out for years that GamerGaters and their 4Chan sponsors were involved with white supremists and neo Nazis. It's not that they were particularly quiet about it. And in return we got patronized: "Silly feminists, they're just being ironic." And now they're killing people, and the response is "Wait where did they come from?" The answer is they were playing X-Box Live.
posted by happyroach at 3:13 PM on August 28, 2017 [73 favorites]
Not so much in the dark, either. People were pointing out for years that GamerGaters and their 4Chan sponsors were involved with white supremists and neo Nazis. It's not that they were particularly quiet about it. And in return we got patronized: "Silly feminists, they're just being ironic." And now they're killing people, and the response is "Wait where did they come from?" The answer is they were playing X-Box Live.
posted by happyroach at 3:13 PM on August 28, 2017 [73 favorites]
North Korea's Secret Weapon In Nuclear Program: Ukrainian Rocket Engines (Some details in an NPR piece from Aug. 14, 2017)
posted by filthy light thief at 3:14 PM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by filthy light thief at 3:14 PM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
My understanding is that North Korean can probably build a suitcase nuke
Your understanding is almost certainly wrong. Building a highly miniaturized nuclear warhead is a ferociously hard problem, and requires materials such as tritium and lithium-6 deuteride which are even harder to acquire than plutonium. What is remotely possible is that NK has built a slightly fusion-boosted simple fission implosion bomb, possibly getting a ten to thirty kiloton range warhead that their missile can actually get off the ground with, although it probably couldn't get to the US with that particular payload since it almost certainly still needs a tamper weighing a ton or more.
(Although NK claims they built a "thermonuclear" bomb, this word technically might accurately refer to such a boosted fision bomb, but they certainly do not have Teller-Ulam configuration H-bombs which are even harder than miniaturized A-bombs. For one thing, you need a highly miniaturized A-bomb to start with to think of building one.)
So NK's bombs would be fission atomic bombs, like the ones we dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, not hydrogen bombs like the ones the US puts on our missiles. This is important because another ferociously hard problem is targeting, and while it's one thing to say your rocket can reach and hit the US, it's quite another to say that it can hit any particular thing within the US. Targeting is especially important for lower yield bombs, and in fact it was improved targeting that led to the "miniaturization" of the US nuclear arsenal; originally targeting was so bad that huge multi-stage H-bombs were built to make sure enough blast pressure would reach the target to kill it despite the targeting error.
It's not hard to see why NK would misrepresent their capabilities, since they want to puff their chests. What is more ominous is that our analysts are not showing more skepticism. Anyone conversant with the publicly published history of atomic weapons can easily see through NK's charade, but someone on our side wants us much more worried than we really have any reason to be.
posted by Bringer Tom at 3:22 PM on August 28, 2017 [40 favorites]
Your understanding is almost certainly wrong. Building a highly miniaturized nuclear warhead is a ferociously hard problem, and requires materials such as tritium and lithium-6 deuteride which are even harder to acquire than plutonium. What is remotely possible is that NK has built a slightly fusion-boosted simple fission implosion bomb, possibly getting a ten to thirty kiloton range warhead that their missile can actually get off the ground with, although it probably couldn't get to the US with that particular payload since it almost certainly still needs a tamper weighing a ton or more.
(Although NK claims they built a "thermonuclear" bomb, this word technically might accurately refer to such a boosted fision bomb, but they certainly do not have Teller-Ulam configuration H-bombs which are even harder than miniaturized A-bombs. For one thing, you need a highly miniaturized A-bomb to start with to think of building one.)
So NK's bombs would be fission atomic bombs, like the ones we dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, not hydrogen bombs like the ones the US puts on our missiles. This is important because another ferociously hard problem is targeting, and while it's one thing to say your rocket can reach and hit the US, it's quite another to say that it can hit any particular thing within the US. Targeting is especially important for lower yield bombs, and in fact it was improved targeting that led to the "miniaturization" of the US nuclear arsenal; originally targeting was so bad that huge multi-stage H-bombs were built to make sure enough blast pressure would reach the target to kill it despite the targeting error.
It's not hard to see why NK would misrepresent their capabilities, since they want to puff their chests. What is more ominous is that our analysts are not showing more skepticism. Anyone conversant with the publicly published history of atomic weapons can easily see through NK's charade, but someone on our side wants us much more worried than we really have any reason to be.
posted by Bringer Tom at 3:22 PM on August 28, 2017 [40 favorites]
Maybe someone told him that global warming is like Candyman or Beetlejuice, and is summoned upon repeated reference.
Some things you defend against by never speaking their name, while other things you defend against by saying a specific combination of words that acts as an incantation to prevent them (i.e. "Radical! Islamic! Terrorism!"). It's the President's most important job to know which is which.
posted by Copronymus at 3:36 PM on August 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
Some things you defend against by never speaking their name, while other things you defend against by saying a specific combination of words that acts as an incantation to prevent them (i.e. "Radical! Islamic! Terrorism!"). It's the President's most important job to know which is which.
posted by Copronymus at 3:36 PM on August 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
It's been what, four hours since a Russia scoop? NBC News: Mueller Team Asking If Trump Tried to Hide Purpose of Trump Tower Meeting
Federal investigators working for Special Counsel Robert Mueller are keenly focused on President Donald Trump's role in crafting a response to a published article about a meeting between Russians and his son Donald Jr., three sources familiar with the matter told NBC News.posted by zachlipton at 3:40 PM on August 28, 2017 [50 favorites]
The sources told NBC News that prosecutors want to know what Trump knew about the meeting and whether he sought to conceal its purpose.
...
A person familiar with Mueller's strategy said that whether or not Trump made a "knowingly false statement" is now of interest to prosecutors.
"Even if Trump is not charged with a crime as a result of the statement, it could be useful to Mueller's team to show Trump's conduct to a jury that may be considering other charges."
North Korea's Secret Weapon In Nuclear Program: Ukrainian Rocket Engines
See, this is the kind of thing that drives me to drink. Rocket engines have nothing to do with NK's nuclear program. Nuclear weapons and missiles are completely different technologies, and skill with one has no bearing on skill with the other even though they are complementary if you have both.
You can have intercontinental missiles but not have nukes to put on them -- and this is where NK is, because their best case scenario is that they have a small yield boosted nuke their rocket can barely lift off with, even with its grey market soviet engines. You can also have a nuke but not have a way to deliver it, which is also where NK is because you need really precise targeting as well as range ot make effective use of a sub-100kt bomb. And the US builds ~300kt H-bombs into our own intercontinental missiles for a reason.
posted by Bringer Tom at 3:40 PM on August 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
See, this is the kind of thing that drives me to drink. Rocket engines have nothing to do with NK's nuclear program. Nuclear weapons and missiles are completely different technologies, and skill with one has no bearing on skill with the other even though they are complementary if you have both.
You can have intercontinental missiles but not have nukes to put on them -- and this is where NK is, because their best case scenario is that they have a small yield boosted nuke their rocket can barely lift off with, even with its grey market soviet engines. You can also have a nuke but not have a way to deliver it, which is also where NK is because you need really precise targeting as well as range ot make effective use of a sub-100kt bomb. And the US builds ~300kt H-bombs into our own intercontinental missiles for a reason.
posted by Bringer Tom at 3:40 PM on August 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
at times like these, and with finland's president in the news, it may be therapeutic to remember his amazing dog, leenu
posted by murphy slaw at 3:44 PM on August 28, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 3:44 PM on August 28, 2017 [12 favorites]
Team Trump turns to Rove playbook to juice 2018 turnout (Politico).
Corey Robin:
Corey Robin:
Back in 2004, Karl Rove and the Republicans goosed up turnout for Bush by putting a series of red-meat state-level ballot initiatives on the ballot. The idea was that the base wouldn't necessarily turn out to vote for Bush. They would turn out, though, to vote against gay marriage. And it worked. In 2018, the GOP is planning to do a reprise: only this time, they don't think so-called social issues will turn out the base. Instead, they want to focus on economic issues like tax cuts. They're terrified that social issues work better for the Democrats, who'll turn out in droves to vote against the GOP on those fronts, than it will for the Republicans. That tells you something about where the GOP is at, eight months in to Trumpland, and what they think will and will not work for them with their hard-core voters.posted by Joseph Gurl at 3:49 PM on August 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
Trump: “So I stand by my pardon of Sheriff Joe and I think the people of Arizona who really know him best would agree with me."
Poll: Arizonans oppose Joe Arpaio pardon
posted by zakur at 3:55 PM on August 28, 2017 [68 favorites]
Poll: Arizonans oppose Joe Arpaio pardon
posted by zakur at 3:55 PM on August 28, 2017 [68 favorites]
just to say I am perfectly fine with Nazis punching themselves.
Yeah, I know this guy is like "I'm not alt-right" but given his first reaction to accidentally stabbing himself was to make up a story about a black man stabbing him for political reasons.
posted by corb at 3:56 PM on August 28, 2017 [33 favorites]
Yeah, I know this guy is like "I'm not alt-right" but given his first reaction to accidentally stabbing himself was to make up a story about a black man stabbing him for political reasons.
posted by corb at 3:56 PM on August 28, 2017 [33 favorites]
Yeah, I know this guy is like "I'm not alt-right" but given his first reaction to accidentally stabbing himself was to make up a story about a black man stabbing him for political reasons.
So, "dipshit-right" maybe?
posted by notyou at 3:59 PM on August 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
So, "dipshit-right" maybe?
posted by notyou at 3:59 PM on August 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
Twitter link re: Mensch's open email account.
AFAIK, News Corp., like many other news organisations, uses Google's GSuite for their email (certainly, news.co.uk does, and I believe their address book resolves addresses in Australia and possibly the US). Apparently GSuite is billed per head, and so they have a policy of disabling accounts as soon as staff leave. Though, perhaps rank hath privilege, and they'd rather have Mensch half in the tent, just in case.
posted by acb at 4:03 PM on August 28, 2017
AFAIK, News Corp., like many other news organisations, uses Google's GSuite for their email (certainly, news.co.uk does, and I believe their address book resolves addresses in Australia and possibly the US). Apparently GSuite is billed per head, and so they have a policy of disabling accounts as soon as staff leave. Though, perhaps rank hath privilege, and they'd rather have Mensch half in the tent, just in case.
posted by acb at 4:03 PM on August 28, 2017
In 2018, the GOP is planning to do a reprise: only this time, they don't think so-called social issues will turn out the base. Instead, they want to focus on economic issues like tax cuts.
So they're going for the temporarily embarrassed millionaire vote then?
posted by acb at 4:06 PM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
So they're going for the temporarily embarrassed millionaire vote then?
posted by acb at 4:06 PM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Just because an email address "doesn't bounce" doesn't mean the account is still active with the original recipient. I do email administration for many clients and it's quite common to keep accounts active, forward them to someone, or make the address an alias on another account or group. If a high-profile reporter left my organization I'd certainly keep the email address open and have one of the other reporters reading it in case a tip came in from one of her sources.
posted by mmoncur at 4:07 PM on August 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by mmoncur at 4:07 PM on August 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
Emphasis mine - and that's right, the president is so scared of mentioning climate change and global warming that it's a restriction placed on his budget language. Maybe someone told him that global warming is like Candyman or Beetlejuice, and is summoned upon repeated reference.
So, speaking from personal experience: federal grant summaries will sometimes get re-worded to protect the researcher from ending up in things like say, Flake's Wastebook. Basically, a "Hey, maybe use a different phrase here to prevent some aide from finding it and then complaining about it on the national news resulting in hate mail getting sent to your campus email" sort of thing.
That's not to say that the request isn't ultimately rooted in bad policy, but at the very least, the person who sent the email is probably at least somewhat trying to look out for the researcher.
posted by damayanti at 4:08 PM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
So, speaking from personal experience: federal grant summaries will sometimes get re-worded to protect the researcher from ending up in things like say, Flake's Wastebook. Basically, a "Hey, maybe use a different phrase here to prevent some aide from finding it and then complaining about it on the national news resulting in hate mail getting sent to your campus email" sort of thing.
That's not to say that the request isn't ultimately rooted in bad policy, but at the very least, the person who sent the email is probably at least somewhat trying to look out for the researcher.
posted by damayanti at 4:08 PM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
So they're going for the temporarily embarrassed millionaire vote then?
It worked in 2016.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:08 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
It worked in 2016.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:08 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oh gosh; did a double take at the title of this post as it harks back to a post in long-distant yonder past - April last year - when US election posts were starting to get over 1,000 comments each and we still largely found the absurd concept of thingie becoming president - well, absurd.
Innocent times!
posted by Wordshore at 4:11 PM on August 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
Innocent times!
posted by Wordshore at 4:11 PM on August 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
GOP lawmaker proposes amendment to stop Mueller investigation after 180 days
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:14 PM on August 28, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:14 PM on August 28, 2017 [16 favorites]
ICE is a criminal organization and must be abolished, with its leadership held to account for current and future human rights abuses edging toward genocide.
ACLU: ICE Plans to Start Destroying Records of Immigrant Abuse, Including Sexual Assault and Deaths in Custody
ICE has asked for permission to begin routinely destroying 11 kinds of records, including those related to sexual assaults, solitary confinement and even deaths of people in its custody. Other records subject to destruction include alternatives to detention programs; regular detention monitoring reports, logs about the people detained in ICE facilities and communications from the public reporting detention abuses.
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:21 PM on August 28, 2017 [67 favorites]
ACLU: ICE Plans to Start Destroying Records of Immigrant Abuse, Including Sexual Assault and Deaths in Custody
ICE has asked for permission to begin routinely destroying 11 kinds of records, including those related to sexual assaults, solitary confinement and even deaths of people in its custody. Other records subject to destruction include alternatives to detention programs; regular detention monitoring reports, logs about the people detained in ICE facilities and communications from the public reporting detention abuses.
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:21 PM on August 28, 2017 [67 favorites]
So they're going for the temporarily embarrassed millionaire vote then?
It worked in 2016.
Pretty sure 2016 was the tired of being embarrassed for being racist vote.
posted by chris24 at 4:21 PM on August 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
It worked in 2016.
Pretty sure 2016 was the tired of being embarrassed for being racist vote.
posted by chris24 at 4:21 PM on August 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
GOP lawmaker proposes amendment to stop Mueller investigation after 180 days
Not just any GOP lawmaker, but Rep. Ron DeSantis (R-Fla.). Guccifer 2.0 dropped DCCC documents about his opponent last election.
posted by zachlipton at 4:21 PM on August 28, 2017 [46 favorites]
Not just any GOP lawmaker, but Rep. Ron DeSantis (R-Fla.). Guccifer 2.0 dropped DCCC documents about his opponent last election.
posted by zachlipton at 4:21 PM on August 28, 2017 [46 favorites]
Mueller?....
Mueller?....
Mueller?....
Fucking do something in the light. Fucking do anything. Say anything. The stasis itself is injurious. We are about a week away from seeing swastika stickers on pick up trucks.
I know that's not how his name is pronounced but fuck it
posted by A Terrible Llama at 4:22 PM on August 28, 2017 [12 favorites]
Mueller?....
Mueller?....
Fucking do something in the light. Fucking do anything. Say anything. The stasis itself is injurious. We are about a week away from seeing swastika stickers on pick up trucks.
I know that's not how his name is pronounced but fuck it
posted by A Terrible Llama at 4:22 PM on August 28, 2017 [12 favorites]
The amendment from Rep. Ron DeSantis (R-Fla.) would also prevent special counsel Robert Mueller from probing “matters occurring before June 2015,” which is the month Trump announced his presidential bid.
So you're saying that there is most definitely some incriminating stuff going on before June 2015.
posted by jason_steakums at 4:25 PM on August 28, 2017 [55 favorites]
So you're saying that there is most definitely some incriminating stuff going on before June 2015.
posted by jason_steakums at 4:25 PM on August 28, 2017 [55 favorites]
So you're saying that there is most definitely some incriminating stuff going on before June 2015.
and desantis was apparently involved
posted by entropicamericana at 4:29 PM on August 28, 2017 [19 favorites]
and desantis was apparently involved
posted by entropicamericana at 4:29 PM on August 28, 2017 [19 favorites]
Trump: “So I stand by my pardon of Sheriff Joe and I think the people of Arizona who really know him best would agree with me."
Poll: Arizonans oppose Joe Arpaio pardon
That's a poll of all human beings in Arizona. Trump's qualified "people of Arizona who really know him the best" is, I'm sure, limited to a few police officers and family members. Or, you know, he's just defining "people" as "Arapio's fellow nazi."
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:30 PM on August 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
Poll: Arizonans oppose Joe Arpaio pardon
That's a poll of all human beings in Arizona. Trump's qualified "people of Arizona who really know him the best" is, I'm sure, limited to a few police officers and family members. Or, you know, he's just defining "people" as "Arapio's fellow nazi."
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:30 PM on August 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
What is more ominous is that our analysts are not showing more skepticism.
The advancements in NK rocketry are real, and most likely entirely provided by the Russians, with convenient covers to implicate wayward client states. If that's real, and it's been demonstrated so, then I am inclined to believe reports that their nuke miniaturization program has been similarly "advanced."
Then the question becomes, do they have a credible re-entry vehicle? This is a non-trivial problem.
Putin wants chaos and disorder sown between his Asian Pacific obstacles to hegemony, which include China, Japan, the United States and South Korea. A ruinous, possibly nuclear war Russia could politely keep out of would be just the ticket.
posted by Slap*Happy at 4:37 PM on August 28, 2017
The advancements in NK rocketry are real, and most likely entirely provided by the Russians, with convenient covers to implicate wayward client states. If that's real, and it's been demonstrated so, then I am inclined to believe reports that their nuke miniaturization program has been similarly "advanced."
Then the question becomes, do they have a credible re-entry vehicle? This is a non-trivial problem.
Putin wants chaos and disorder sown between his Asian Pacific obstacles to hegemony, which include China, Japan, the United States and South Korea. A ruinous, possibly nuclear war Russia could politely keep out of would be just the ticket.
posted by Slap*Happy at 4:37 PM on August 28, 2017
The Arpaio pardon has 22% approval in Arizona. According to Wikipedia, non-hispanic white males are about 29% of Arizona. Subtract 1/4 for only white men over 18 and you get: 21.75%
Obviously there's overlap with other groups in the pardon approval poll, but...I think we've found his people who really know Joe the best.
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:38 PM on August 28, 2017 [29 favorites]
Obviously there's overlap with other groups in the pardon approval poll, but...I think we've found his people who really know Joe the best.
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:38 PM on August 28, 2017 [29 favorites]
szyzygy: the current headline on the WaPo article about the Berkely protest originally linked here is Black-clad antifa members attack peaceful right-wing demonstrators in Berkeley.
I don't know whether the headline has been changed (to add 'peaceful') since the article was originally linked, but that's the headline at this time, and it seems like some prime BS to me.
Not changed just now, and headline is even more BS than the very biased article. Here is their first example:
posted by msalt at 4:52 PM on August 28, 2017 [31 favorites]
I don't know whether the headline has been changed (to add 'peaceful') since the article was originally linked, but that's the headline at this time, and it seems like some prime BS to me.
Not changed just now, and headline is even more BS than the very biased article. Here is their first example:
Shortly after, violence began to flare. A pepper-spray-wielding Trump supporter was smacked to the ground with homemade shields.A guy attacking protestors with pepper spray is peaceful?
posted by msalt at 4:52 PM on August 28, 2017 [31 favorites]
Isn't it the basis that usually have a bunch of shields and crap?
posted by Artw at 4:57 PM on August 28, 2017
posted by Artw at 4:57 PM on August 28, 2017
My god, the quotes in here. Haberman NYT: Sater, Trump, Cohen, Putin, guilt, etc.
posted by rc3spencer at 5:10 PM on August 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by rc3spencer at 5:10 PM on August 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
Bringer Tom's done an excellent roundup of the actual nuclear program, nothing to add there. Agree it feels like we're being nudged towards war by overly pessimistic threat analysis. If you want detailed graphs and some very informed speculation on likely brackets for DPRK rocketry capabilities, Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists has you covered.
Summary: even if they've managed a first-gen implosion device (unlikely but possible with their single 30kT test), they're not putting it on US mainland using the newly acquired rocket they've been setting all these distance records with. Next iteration a few years down the road might do, though.
Tying this back to #potus45: at some level I really appreciated Mattis coming as close as he dared to rebuking Trump last week (though stopping far short of Tillerson-grade "Please fire me" territory). The problem is, given the choice between Mattis speaking his conscience, and quietly remaining the likely sole person in the administration both willing and able to keep Trump's finger off the red button for the next 3.3 years, I'd prefer he kept quiet. I already knew he was intelligent and patriotic, at least as bloodthirsty scoundrels go. What I need - what the entire world needs right now and for the next few years - is for him to never be this week's "You're Fired!"
Even in the worst case scenario we can repair the cultural & economic damage Trump's done in less than 50 years. We can't repair the damage of a nuclear holocaust in under 500, if ever.
posted by Ryvar at 5:24 PM on August 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
Summary: even if they've managed a first-gen implosion device (unlikely but possible with their single 30kT test), they're not putting it on US mainland using the newly acquired rocket they've been setting all these distance records with. Next iteration a few years down the road might do, though.
Tying this back to #potus45: at some level I really appreciated Mattis coming as close as he dared to rebuking Trump last week (though stopping far short of Tillerson-grade "Please fire me" territory). The problem is, given the choice between Mattis speaking his conscience, and quietly remaining the likely sole person in the administration both willing and able to keep Trump's finger off the red button for the next 3.3 years, I'd prefer he kept quiet. I already knew he was intelligent and patriotic, at least as bloodthirsty scoundrels go. What I need - what the entire world needs right now and for the next few years - is for him to never be this week's "You're Fired!"
Even in the worst case scenario we can repair the cultural & economic damage Trump's done in less than 50 years. We can't repair the damage of a nuclear holocaust in under 500, if ever.
posted by Ryvar at 5:24 PM on August 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
Yeah, I know this guy is like "I'm not alt-right" but given his first reaction to accidentally stabbing himself was to make up a story about a black man stabbing him for political reasons.
Right, that's bad enough corb. Plus he pretty much framed a homeless man.
But. Reporters are calling it an accident. That doesn't seem likely to me given:
1. He bought the knife an hour or two earlier.
2. He called the cops rather than an ambulance or driving himself to the hospital
3. According to voter records he's affiliated with the ACN party. The ACN party (otherwise known as the American Constitution party) is a far right racist and misogynistic nationalist party that, among other things wants to repeal the Voting Rights Act and repeal laws making it illegal to use force or threat of force to interfere with a woman seeking an abortion.
I don't think this was a spur of the moment cover for cutting himself.
posted by stagewhisper at 5:42 PM on August 28, 2017 [61 favorites]
Right, that's bad enough corb. Plus he pretty much framed a homeless man.
But. Reporters are calling it an accident. That doesn't seem likely to me given:
1. He bought the knife an hour or two earlier.
2. He called the cops rather than an ambulance or driving himself to the hospital
3. According to voter records he's affiliated with the ACN party. The ACN party (otherwise known as the American Constitution party) is a far right racist and misogynistic nationalist party that, among other things wants to repeal the Voting Rights Act and repeal laws making it illegal to use force or threat of force to interfere with a woman seeking an abortion.
I don't think this was a spur of the moment cover for cutting himself.
posted by stagewhisper at 5:42 PM on August 28, 2017 [61 favorites]
Here's a nice fun story about how the President is definitely Not Mad. Bloomberg, Jennifer Jacobs and Kevin Cirilli, Trump Punishes Longtime Aide After Angry Phoenix Speech, Sources Say:
Donald Trump was in a bad mood before he emerged for a confrontational speech in Arizona last week.posted by zachlipton at 5:46 PM on August 28, 2017 [32 favorites]
TV and social media coverage showed that the site of his campaign rally, the Phoenix Convention Center, was less than full. Backstage, waiting in a room with a television monitor, Trump was displeased, one person familiar with the incident said: TV optics and crowd sizes are extremely important to the president.
As his surrogates warmed up the audience, the expanse of shiny concrete eventually filled in with cheering Trump fans. But it was too late for a longtime Trump aide, George Gigicos, the former White House director of advance who had organized the event as a contractor to the Republican National Committee. Trump later had his top security aide, Keith Schiller, inform Gigicos that he’d never manage a Trump rally again, according to three people familiar with the matter.
Gigicos, one of the four longest-serving political aides to the president, declined to comment.
Trump later had his top security aide, Keith Schiller, inform Gigicos that he’d never manage a Trump rally again, according to three people familiar with the matter.
Has he ever actually fired someone face-to-face?
posted by theodolite at 5:53 PM on August 28, 2017 [19 favorites]
Has he ever actually fired someone face-to-face?
posted by theodolite at 5:53 PM on August 28, 2017 [19 favorites]
there was a whole TV show just dedicated to that
posted by mbo at 5:54 PM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by mbo at 5:54 PM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
I mean in real life, not the weird fantasy business world Mark Burnett constructed for him.
posted by theodolite at 5:55 PM on August 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 5:55 PM on August 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
> Wow, I knew Arpaio was bad, but I had no idea he was this bad...
@phoenixnewtimes counts the ways
posted by kliuless at 6:06 PM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
@phoenixnewtimes counts the ways
posted by kliuless at 6:06 PM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Black-clad antifa
say this in a mirror seven times to summon the Ghost of Broken Windows Past
posted by generalist at 6:14 PM on August 28, 2017 [15 favorites]
say this in a mirror seven times to summon the Ghost of Broken Windows Past
posted by generalist at 6:14 PM on August 28, 2017 [15 favorites]
say this in a mirror seven times to summon the Ghost of Broken Windows Past
I once opened a Black Bloc Puzzle Box and Bill O'Reilly called me a pinhead
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:18 PM on August 28, 2017 [25 favorites]
I once opened a Black Bloc Puzzle Box and Bill O'Reilly called me a pinhead
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:18 PM on August 28, 2017 [25 favorites]
That photo with the New York Times article linked upthread by rc3spencer -- good grief. It looks like Trump is singing. Worst Jersey Boys cast ever.
posted by vickyverky at 6:23 PM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by vickyverky at 6:23 PM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
If that bothers you, you probably better not buy or stream any music from artists on Warner Music, as he owns them as well.
Oh I see - you're intimating that organized crime could be in any way associated with the music business. Well now I've heard everything.
posted by petebest at 6:36 PM on August 28, 2017 [19 favorites]
Oh I see - you're intimating that organized crime could be in any way associated with the music business. Well now I've heard everything.
posted by petebest at 6:36 PM on August 28, 2017 [19 favorites]
Maybe someone told him that global warming is like Candyman or Beetlejuice, and is summoned upon repeated reference.
Hasn't that been the Republican strategy for ages? If you say something often enough, it becomes true.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 6:46 PM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Hasn't that been the Republican strategy for ages? If you say something often enough, it becomes true.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 6:46 PM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
And he is going to nominate a horse to the Cabinet. You just know it.
posted by Devonian at 12:35 PM on August 28 [7 favorites +] [!]
It'll be his golf cart.
posted by Mental Wimp at 7:25 PM on August 28, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 12:35 PM on August 28 [7 favorites +] [!]
It'll be his golf cart.
posted by Mental Wimp at 7:25 PM on August 28, 2017 [28 favorites]
So when we say "missile", we're not talking about nuclear missiles, right? Just regular explodey ones?
AFAIK, the public evidence that they have a nuclear bomb which could work as a warhead is a photo of something which looks like one...
posted by Coventry at 8:01 PM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
AFAIK, the public evidence that they have a nuclear bomb which could work as a warhead is a photo of something which looks like one...
posted by Coventry at 8:01 PM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Joe Scarborough is currently in a Twitter arguing with Shane Bauer that black is white and up is down, in case anyone somehow forgot that he's a low-life talking head who helped elevate Trump.
posted by Yowser at 8:09 PM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 8:09 PM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
And the "apparent" alt-righter is some guy named Patriot Warrior, who may or may not be alt-right, but was certainly at Berkeley for a fight.
posted by Yowser at 8:17 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Yowser at 8:17 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm still baffled how that dipshit Joe managed to gain such an outsized influence.
MSNBC gave him a 4 hours long show every single morning at the height of the Iraq war "Democrats are with us or against us" period to offset having Keith Olbermann at night.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:24 PM on August 28, 2017 [16 favorites]
MSNBC gave him a 4 hours long show every single morning at the height of the Iraq war "Democrats are with us or against us" period to offset having Keith Olbermann at night.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:24 PM on August 28, 2017 [16 favorites]
I'm still baffled how that dipshit Joe managed to gain such an outsized influence.
Me, too. I remember him from the Hill.
posted by jgirl at 8:32 PM on August 28, 2017
The Secret Service emails banning Gorka from the WH on Chris Hayes' Thing 1 and Thing 2 were amazing. Those emails were sent 24 hours before he "resigned," so. Yeah.
posted by xyzzy at 8:50 PM on August 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 8:50 PM on August 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
The Secret Service emails banning Gorka from the WH on Chris Hayes' Thing 1 and Thing 2 were amazing. Those emails were sent 24 hours before he "resigned," so. Yeah.
Here's the video on that. Wow. Leaking the emails to Chris Hayes is just twisting the knife.
Unrelated, but there's also a rumor going around, most notably from Liz Mair (Republican comms/strategy person) that Trump will end DACA tomorrow. That's firmly in the unsubstantiated wild rumor camp of the sort I don't usually pass on, but my sense is that Mair is not crazy. Ending DACA would be crazy and breathtakingly cruel, ending it while touring a massive natural disaster even more so, but Trump does like to lash out at vulnerable people when he feels cornered, and he's been cornered a bunch lately. Ending DACA would be the kind of thing worth immediately taking to the streets over, so keep an eye out.
posted by zachlipton at 9:08 PM on August 28, 2017 [35 favorites]
Here's the video on that. Wow. Leaking the emails to Chris Hayes is just twisting the knife.
Unrelated, but there's also a rumor going around, most notably from Liz Mair (Republican comms/strategy person) that Trump will end DACA tomorrow. That's firmly in the unsubstantiated wild rumor camp of the sort I don't usually pass on, but my sense is that Mair is not crazy. Ending DACA would be crazy and breathtakingly cruel, ending it while touring a massive natural disaster even more so, but Trump does like to lash out at vulnerable people when he feels cornered, and he's been cornered a bunch lately. Ending DACA would be the kind of thing worth immediately taking to the streets over, so keep an eye out.
posted by zachlipton at 9:08 PM on August 28, 2017 [35 favorites]
Jared and Ivanka really tried to push him not to end DACA, but they also had a non-refundable deposit on a chalet in Aspen, so.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:15 PM on August 28, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:15 PM on August 28, 2017 [23 favorites]
Yeah, I mean, the important thing to take from the NK nuke discussion is they have SOME kind of nuclear capability (not a lot, and probably considerably imported), and they now have an underpowered ICBM. They DON'T have sophisticated targeting capability, and it's not at all clear they have any ability to put a nuclear warhead on an ICBM and have it survive reentry and detonate at the right time. I'm not trying to freak people into overreacting; I'm trying to point out that even if they have a nuke and a missile, that does not mean they have a NUCLEAR MISSILE, let alone one that can hit anything.
These missile tests are scary and provocative and are intended to be scary and provocative, but it's simple missile testing, not live weaponry, and not an active direct threat. It's a threat only in that NK wants the world to know they have ballistic missiles that can go yea far. It is scary in that it's a crucial step towards developing actual intercontinental attack capabilities (and more options to attack regional enemies within range of other sorts of weapons). But they are a long way from putting a nuke on a rocket and having it hit a target and detonate. A LONG way. This is basically me playing angry birds where I use up all my shots trying to figure out how to target them properly, only each test missile is quite expensive and NK probably doesn't have the expertise to build them entirely in-house.
So definitely this is intended as a threat, and it is scary in that it's a step forward in NK's capabilities. But it's (probably) not live ordinance on top of the missile -- they're only testing the missile bit -- and ballistic missiles are hard between the rocketry and the fuel and the reentry and the targeting and the detonation timing and so on. The test in itself is threatening, aggressive, a possible signal of escalation of NK's aggression in the region ... but not at all an indication they could send up a nuclear missile in the near future. Be scared about the same things about North Korea that you were scared about yesterday, like how much of their conventional artillery can hit Seoul. That's still the actual threat ... the launch is a symbolic expression of general threatiness.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:32 PM on August 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
These missile tests are scary and provocative and are intended to be scary and provocative, but it's simple missile testing, not live weaponry, and not an active direct threat. It's a threat only in that NK wants the world to know they have ballistic missiles that can go yea far. It is scary in that it's a crucial step towards developing actual intercontinental attack capabilities (and more options to attack regional enemies within range of other sorts of weapons). But they are a long way from putting a nuke on a rocket and having it hit a target and detonate. A LONG way. This is basically me playing angry birds where I use up all my shots trying to figure out how to target them properly, only each test missile is quite expensive and NK probably doesn't have the expertise to build them entirely in-house.
So definitely this is intended as a threat, and it is scary in that it's a step forward in NK's capabilities. But it's (probably) not live ordinance on top of the missile -- they're only testing the missile bit -- and ballistic missiles are hard between the rocketry and the fuel and the reentry and the targeting and the detonation timing and so on. The test in itself is threatening, aggressive, a possible signal of escalation of NK's aggression in the region ... but not at all an indication they could send up a nuclear missile in the near future. Be scared about the same things about North Korea that you were scared about yesterday, like how much of their conventional artillery can hit Seoul. That's still the actual threat ... the launch is a symbolic expression of general threatiness.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:32 PM on August 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
Fat Boy Kim and Little Hand Man: worst rap feud ever.
posted by adept256 at 9:36 PM on August 28, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by adept256 at 9:36 PM on August 28, 2017 [22 favorites]
Yeah, I mean, the important thing to take from the NK nuke discussion is they have SOME kind of nuclear capability (not a lot, and probably considerably imported), and they now have an underpowered ICBM
North Korea being able to lob one over Japan is a big enough risk that we need some sort of expert in negotiations to get out there, have one-on-one discussions with Kim, and work out a compromise that mitigates this risk.
But we don't have that President, we got the other one.
posted by mikelieman at 10:16 PM on August 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
North Korea being able to lob one over Japan is a big enough risk that we need some sort of expert in negotiations to get out there, have one-on-one discussions with Kim, and work out a compromise that mitigates this risk.
But we don't have that President, we got the other one.
posted by mikelieman at 10:16 PM on August 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
Matt Furie finds himself with the unexpected mission of crusading against nazi children's books in order to prevent the use of his beloved cartoon frog-child as the avatar of resurgent global fascism.
Matthew Gault, Vice: Pepe the Frog’s Creator Gets Alt-Right Children’s Book Pulled, Vows to ‘Aggressively Enforce His Intellectual Property’
"Furie wants one thing to be clear: Pepe the Frog does not belong to the alt-right. As this action shows, Furie will aggressively enforce his intellectual property, using legal action if necessary, to end the misappropriation of Pepe the Frog in any way that espouses racism, white supremacy, Islamophobia, anti-Semitism, Nazism, or any other form of hate. He will make sure that no one profits by using Pepe in alt-right propaganda—and particularly not by targeting children."
Hauser was an assistant principal at a North Texas middle school when the book hit the market, but Denton Independent School District officials removed him from his post amid the controversy. As of this publication, his new position is yet to be determined.
Teachers and parents in Hauser's community were concerned over the contents of the book, which depicts Pepe and Pede fighting with a bearded alligator named Alkah, a seeming allusion to Allah. The alligator's minions are pink creatures covered in mud that look similar to women in burqas.
Hauser denied claims he was Islamophobic and a member of the alt-right but my reporting showed that Hauser used a web cartoon of women in burqas as the model for Alkah's minions. The artist Hauser commissioned to illustrate the book—Ukrainian freelancer Nina Khalova—gave me early design documents that indicated Hauser wanted the alligator to have a full, bushy beard and wear a robe. He also instructed Khalova to copy Furie's original designs of Pepe the Frog directly.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:31 PM on August 28, 2017 [49 favorites]
Matthew Gault, Vice: Pepe the Frog’s Creator Gets Alt-Right Children’s Book Pulled, Vows to ‘Aggressively Enforce His Intellectual Property’
"Furie wants one thing to be clear: Pepe the Frog does not belong to the alt-right. As this action shows, Furie will aggressively enforce his intellectual property, using legal action if necessary, to end the misappropriation of Pepe the Frog in any way that espouses racism, white supremacy, Islamophobia, anti-Semitism, Nazism, or any other form of hate. He will make sure that no one profits by using Pepe in alt-right propaganda—and particularly not by targeting children."
Hauser was an assistant principal at a North Texas middle school when the book hit the market, but Denton Independent School District officials removed him from his post amid the controversy. As of this publication, his new position is yet to be determined.
Teachers and parents in Hauser's community were concerned over the contents of the book, which depicts Pepe and Pede fighting with a bearded alligator named Alkah, a seeming allusion to Allah. The alligator's minions are pink creatures covered in mud that look similar to women in burqas.
Hauser denied claims he was Islamophobic and a member of the alt-right but my reporting showed that Hauser used a web cartoon of women in burqas as the model for Alkah's minions. The artist Hauser commissioned to illustrate the book—Ukrainian freelancer Nina Khalova—gave me early design documents that indicated Hauser wanted the alligator to have a full, bushy beard and wear a robe. He also instructed Khalova to copy Furie's original designs of Pepe the Frog directly.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:31 PM on August 28, 2017 [49 favorites]
Which president would that be?
North Korea pardoned and released two detained American journalists after former president Bill Clinton met in Pyongyang on Tuesday with the country's ailing dictator
Hillary was Secretary of State at the time, so maybe in the best timeline she sends Bill to glad hand and sweet talk the North Koreans.
2009 probably wasn't even the first time she's wanted to send Bill to North Korea.
posted by adept256 at 10:32 PM on August 28, 2017 [12 favorites]
North Korea pardoned and released two detained American journalists after former president Bill Clinton met in Pyongyang on Tuesday with the country's ailing dictator
Hillary was Secretary of State at the time, so maybe in the best timeline she sends Bill to glad hand and sweet talk the North Koreans.
2009 probably wasn't even the first time she's wanted to send Bill to North Korea.
posted by adept256 at 10:32 PM on August 28, 2017 [12 favorites]
North Korea are only ever going to threaten unless someone hits them first, they know they are fucked if they actually initiate anything.
posted by walrus at 10:33 PM on August 28, 2017
posted by walrus at 10:33 PM on August 28, 2017
ELECTIONS NEWS
** AL senate special -- Dark Lord of the Sith Steve Bannon is supporting Moore over Strange. [Politico]
** 2018 Senate:
** AL senate special -- Dark Lord of the Sith Steve Bannon is supporting Moore over Strange. [Politico]
** 2018 Senate:
-- In AZ, a JMC Analytics poll finds Ward would beat Flake in a GOP primary 47-21. In NV, another JMC Analytics poll has Tarkanian beating Heller 39-31 in a GOP primary. This is starting to feel like 2010, when the GOP blew a number of winnable races by nominating extremists.** Odds & ends:
** 2020 prez -- Kasich says he's not doing the independent run with Hickenlooper that briefly had the more gullible pundits worked up. [NBC]
-- IL officially approved automatic voter registration, becoming the 10th state to do so.posted by Chrysostom at 10:38 PM on August 28, 2017 [35 favorites]
-- 538: Arpaio pardon unpopular, but will probably only affect Trump approval marginally.
North Korea are only ever going to threaten unless someone hits them first, they know they are fucked if they actually initiate anything.
In 2010 they did carry out an artillery bombardment of South Korean military forces, for example; Wikipedia has a list of border incidents involving North Korea.
posted by XMLicious at 10:59 PM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm aware of that, but it's a little different from a first strike with an ICBM of any stripe.
posted by walrus at 11:06 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by walrus at 11:06 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hauser was an assistant principal at a North Texas middle school....The artist Hauser commissioned to illustrate the book—Ukrainian freelancer Nina Khalova—gave me early design documents that indicated Hauser wanted the alligator to have a full, bushy beard and wear a robe. He also instructed Khalova to copy Furie's original designs of Pepe the Frog directly.
That is incredibly alarming/infuriating/depressing.
posted by Lyme Drop at 11:22 PM on August 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
That is incredibly alarming/infuriating/depressing.
posted by Lyme Drop at 11:22 PM on August 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
I'm aware of that, but it's a little different from a first strike with an ICBM of any stripe.
Unfortunately I think the binary of "real ICBM first strike by North Korea itself, or not" isn't the only option introduced by their advances. But I don't have any expertise to know for sure, I just wish I could feel like the U.S. President is likely to have a better grasp of it than I would in his place.
posted by XMLicious at 11:34 PM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
In that Vanity Fair piece on Javanka:
While Mike Pence was on Capitol Hill laying plans to repeal Obamacare, Ivanka requested a meeting with Planned Parenthood president Cecile Richards. She and Jared went to see Richards in February for what Richards called an “explainer” on Planned Parenthood and the issues surrounding the organization. Ivanka went to the meeting thinking she might act as a kind of referee between the Republicans clamoring to de-fund Planned Parenthood and the organization itself. The meeting was cordial, according to a person familiar with it, although Ivanka and Jared did not commit to anything. When the first version of a health-care bill proposed to strip funding from Planned Parenthood, Ivanka’s surrogates reached out to the organization with an idea: stop offering abortions and the White House would advocate increased funding for Planned Parenthood clinics. Richards turned down the proposal.
Truly an advocate for women everywhere.
posted by PenDevil at 11:45 PM on August 28, 2017 [125 favorites]
While Mike Pence was on Capitol Hill laying plans to repeal Obamacare, Ivanka requested a meeting with Planned Parenthood president Cecile Richards. She and Jared went to see Richards in February for what Richards called an “explainer” on Planned Parenthood and the issues surrounding the organization. Ivanka went to the meeting thinking she might act as a kind of referee between the Republicans clamoring to de-fund Planned Parenthood and the organization itself. The meeting was cordial, according to a person familiar with it, although Ivanka and Jared did not commit to anything. When the first version of a health-care bill proposed to strip funding from Planned Parenthood, Ivanka’s surrogates reached out to the organization with an idea: stop offering abortions and the White House would advocate increased funding for Planned Parenthood clinics. Richards turned down the proposal.
Truly an advocate for women everywhere.
posted by PenDevil at 11:45 PM on August 28, 2017 [125 favorites]
How accurate is crude targeting? I mean if you target say Manhattan or Compton or slightly west of Chicago city centre you've got a lot of windage to still get tens to hundreds of thousands of people in the 3rd degree burn area of effect with even a 30kt weapon.
posted by Mitheral at 12:08 AM on August 29, 2017
posted by Mitheral at 12:08 AM on August 29, 2017
can we say with certainty it was an icbm? i don't think so, without more info. could be a long range missile, with no low orbit and no ballistic phase. bringertom?
posted by j_curiouser at 12:22 AM on August 29, 2017
posted by j_curiouser at 12:22 AM on August 29, 2017
I'm pretty sure the US needed precision targeting because they wanted to hit hardened Soviet ICBM silos. You need to be pretty spot-on to destroy the underground launch facility. But if you're just trying to hit a sprawling city like LA, then precision targeting is not so important.
posted by ryanrs at 1:06 AM on August 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by ryanrs at 1:06 AM on August 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
When the first version of a health-care bill proposed to strip funding from Planned Parenthood, Ivanka’s surrogates reached out to the organization with an idea: stop offering abortions.
Art of the deal.
posted by box at 2:56 AM on August 29, 2017 [25 favorites]
Art of the deal.
posted by box at 2:56 AM on August 29, 2017 [25 favorites]
can we say with certainty it was an icbm? i don't think so, without more info. could be a long range missile, with no low orbit and no ballistic phase.
From the link posted upthread (near the end in the summary):
The flight tests on July 4 and 28 were a carefully choreographed deception by North Korea to create a false impression that the Hwasong-14 is a near-ICBM that poses a nuclear threat to the continental US.
I'm very not an expert, but it appears the answer is no.
posted by ragtag at 3:06 AM on August 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
From the link posted upthread (near the end in the summary):
The flight tests on July 4 and 28 were a carefully choreographed deception by North Korea to create a false impression that the Hwasong-14 is a near-ICBM that poses a nuclear threat to the continental US.
I'm very not an expert, but it appears the answer is no.
posted by ragtag at 3:06 AM on August 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
House Committee Votes to Terminate Agency that Protects Voting Machines from Hacking
Today, the House Administration Committee, by a party-line 6-3 vote, approved the Election Assistance Commission (EAC) Termination Act (H.R. 634) and a bill to dissolve the Presidential Election Campaign Fund (H.R. 133).
H.R. 634 would eliminate the EAC, an independent government agency that sets security standards for voting machines and functions as a clearinghouse for election administration, among other duties.
The Brennan Center for Justice at NYU School of Law released the following statement from Democracy Program Director Wendy Weiser:
“This bill would kill the one federal agency charged with upgrading our voting systems. At a time when the vast majority of the country’s voting machines are outdated and in need of replacement, and after an election in which foreign criminals already tried to hack state voter registration systems, eliminating the EAC poses a risky and irresponsible threat to our election infrastructure.
“Destroying the presidential public financing program is also the wrong step for America. On the heels of an election in which Americans made clear that they are unhappy with the influence of big money over our politics, Congress should strengthen, not scrap, the system.”
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 3:34 AM on August 29, 2017 [77 favorites]
Today, the House Administration Committee, by a party-line 6-3 vote, approved the Election Assistance Commission (EAC) Termination Act (H.R. 634) and a bill to dissolve the Presidential Election Campaign Fund (H.R. 133).
H.R. 634 would eliminate the EAC, an independent government agency that sets security standards for voting machines and functions as a clearinghouse for election administration, among other duties.
The Brennan Center for Justice at NYU School of Law released the following statement from Democracy Program Director Wendy Weiser:
“This bill would kill the one federal agency charged with upgrading our voting systems. At a time when the vast majority of the country’s voting machines are outdated and in need of replacement, and after an election in which foreign criminals already tried to hack state voter registration systems, eliminating the EAC poses a risky and irresponsible threat to our election infrastructure.
“Destroying the presidential public financing program is also the wrong step for America. On the heels of an election in which Americans made clear that they are unhappy with the influence of big money over our politics, Congress should strengthen, not scrap, the system.”
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 3:34 AM on August 29, 2017 [77 favorites]
NYT opinion page: Who Decides Whether Trump Is Unfit to Govern?
[...] 28 Democratic Congress members have signed on to a bill, introduced in April, that could lead to a formal evaluation of his fitness.posted by runcifex at 4:32 AM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
[...]
The role of psychiatry in this process would be problematic. One of us is a lifelong Democrat, the other a Republican (if an increasingly ambivalent one). But as psychiatrists and citizens, we agree on this point: The medical profession and democracy would be ill served if a political determination at this level were ever disguised as clinical judgement.
AUG. 28 2017 5:19 PMposted by tilde at 4:43 AM on August 29, 2017 [14 favorites]
The Secretary’s Rebuke
James Mattis tells the troops that their president is failing them.
Here, then, was the secretary of defense—whose credibility and authority rest largely on his combat valor as a recently retired Marine four-star general—all but acknowledging to the servicemen and women he oversees that the country they serve is broken and that the commander in chief, whose lawful orders they have sworn to obey, has helped break it.
Yeah, I don't want the Republicans to get ANY cover for this. I can hear the meal culpas now. "Bless my berries, I am just saddened and SHOCKED by this news that the President is a narcissistic sociopath! Mental illness is such a problem in our society, so hidden. Poor man, he's ill!"
No. Unacceptable. He's unfit. We don't need doctors or head shrinkers to tell us this. It is plain as day to any reasonable, thinking, observing human being.
posted by xyzzy at 4:43 AM on August 29, 2017 [34 favorites]
No. Unacceptable. He's unfit. We don't need doctors or head shrinkers to tell us this. It is plain as day to any reasonable, thinking, observing human being.
posted by xyzzy at 4:43 AM on August 29, 2017 [34 favorites]
Imagine he feels the noose tightening, and his best hope is to plead insanity. But however crazy he acts, none of his goons acknowledge his behavior. They have to keep a straight face until ... the heist on Fort Knox!
Starring Adam Sandler.
posted by adept256 at 5:09 AM on August 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
Starring Adam Sandler.
posted by adept256 at 5:09 AM on August 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
Ivanka’s surrogates
Yes, the Little Ivanka Surrogate Achievers, and how very proud we are of all of them.
after an election in which foreign criminals already tried to hack state voter registration systems
Tried? Brennan Center for Justice, why are you pulling punches?
Y'know it's almost like the Republican party don't want democracy to work.
posted by petebest at 5:21 AM on August 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
Yes, the Little Ivanka Surrogate Achievers, and how very proud we are of all of them.
after an election in which foreign criminals already tried to hack state voter registration systems
Tried? Brennan Center for Justice, why are you pulling punches?
Y'know it's almost like the Republican party don't want democracy to work.
posted by petebest at 5:21 AM on August 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
Politico: Ivanka's business partner Moshe Lax described as “career grifter” a fraud and a serial extortionist who shakes people down with trumped-up threats of criminal charges; rather like her father.
posted by adamvasco at 5:39 AM on August 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by adamvasco at 5:39 AM on August 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
No. Unacceptable. He's unfit. We don't need doctors or head shrinkers to tell us this. It is plain as day to any reasonable, thinking, observing human being.
And was during the election, time after disgusting time. And in case it wasn't obvious enough, Hillary Clinton said as much, in so many words -- and it's rare that a modern candidate will go so far as to say that their opponent is actually unfit for office.
But her emails, and he-said-she-said, and Trump was good for ratings, so here we are.
posted by Gelatin at 6:15 AM on August 29, 2017 [48 favorites]
And was during the election, time after disgusting time. And in case it wasn't obvious enough, Hillary Clinton said as much, in so many words -- and it's rare that a modern candidate will go so far as to say that their opponent is actually unfit for office.
But her emails, and he-said-she-said, and Trump was good for ratings, so here we are.
posted by Gelatin at 6:15 AM on August 29, 2017 [48 favorites]
NYT opinion page: Who Decides Whether Trump Is Unfit to Govern?
3 million more Americans than who thought he was (or pretended to).
posted by Gelatin at 6:18 AM on August 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
3 million more Americans than who thought he was (or pretended to).
posted by Gelatin at 6:18 AM on August 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
He's unfit. We don't need doctors or head shrinkers to tell us this. It is plain as day to any reasonable, thinking, observing human being.
I mean he's just talking back to his shows now. He's literally an old man yelling at the TV.
@realDonaldTrump
.@foxandfriends We are not looking to fill all of those positions. Don't need many of them - reduce size of government. @IngrahamAngle
posted by chris24 at 6:19 AM on August 29, 2017 [35 favorites]
I mean he's just talking back to his shows now. He's literally an old man yelling at the TV.
@realDonaldTrump
.@foxandfriends We are not looking to fill all of those positions. Don't need many of them - reduce size of government. @IngrahamAngle
posted by chris24 at 6:19 AM on August 29, 2017 [35 favorites]
Any idea which unfilled "positions" Fox and Friends highlighted. (Unfortunately Fox and Friends is not part of my morning routine.)
posted by notyou at 6:40 AM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by notyou at 6:40 AM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
trying to "reduce size of government" by refusing to fill leadership positions, rather than by laying off staffers and/or closing offices is a … novel approach
posted by murphy slaw at 6:42 AM on August 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 6:42 AM on August 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
trying to "reduce size of government" by refusing to fill leadership positions, rather than by laying off staffers and/or closing offices is a … novel approach
Wait, isn't that how business works? Especially very successful businesses that are worth billions of dollars and not at all Russian money-laundering ponzi schemes?
posted by Etrigan at 6:45 AM on August 29, 2017 [21 favorites]
Wait, isn't that how business works? Especially very successful businesses that are worth billions of dollars and not at all Russian money-laundering ponzi schemes?
posted by Etrigan at 6:45 AM on August 29, 2017 [21 favorites]
Reducing expenses through staff attrition is the hallmark of every weak executive I've ever worked for.
posted by baltimoretim at 6:46 AM on August 29, 2017 [65 favorites]
posted by baltimoretim at 6:46 AM on August 29, 2017 [65 favorites]
How Donald Trump Decides to Fire Someone
Although Trump once tried and failed to trademark the words, “You’re fired!” — his catchphrase from The Apprentice — it seems that he doesn’t actually enjoy repealing and replacing the loyalists that surround him. Like so much with the president, it’s shtick designed to make him look tough. “At the end of the day, he’s a natural-born salesman and he likes people to like him,” a second senior administration official said. “He’s a conflict-avoider. He hates firing people. He knows he’s gotta fire every one of them — but he can’t bring himself to do it. He’s a Gemini. Do you know what a Gemini is? Those are two people in one body. There’s always two faces with Trump.”posted by kirkaracha at 6:58 AM on August 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
NY Times apparently back on its bullshit again.
posted by Artw at 6:59 AM on August 29, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:59 AM on August 29, 2017 [20 favorites]
Background on the unfilled positions tweet from TPM.
During a segment on “Fox and Friends,” Ingraham said that the devastation of Hurricane Harvey in Texas shows how desperately Trump needs to fill open posts at agencies that help with disaster recovery.posted by chris24 at 7:01 AM on August 29, 2017 [19 favorites]
“I think we can all look at these horrific pictures, and we can conclude a federal government does need staff. We see it acutely in need of staff in a situation like this,” she said after noting that the new FEMA director was just confirmed in June.
“We’re also facing a huge crisis with North Korea,” she continued. “We’re facing a crisis of confidence across the country where people wonder—even with President Trump in, he said he was going to drain the swamp—can we have a government that works for the people and not just have a people enslaved to the government?”
Trump often blames Democrats for obstructing the administration’s lagging efforts to fill key posts in the federal government. But as “Fox and Friends” co-host Brian Kilmeade noted on Tuesday morning, Trump has yet to even nominate people to fill a few hundred open positions.
Ingraham said that the White House should be scrutinized for the slow pace of nominations. “This is a question that has to be posed to the administration. I know they have a lot on their hands, but we have to have people in place,” she said. “If there’s a plan to not staff and cause the ultimate shrinkage of government, then let’s hear about that as well.”
NY Times apparently back on its bullshit again.
I'm shocked, shocked to find that this came from Glenn Thrush. /casablanca
posted by chris24 at 7:06 AM on August 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm shocked, shocked to find that this came from Glenn Thrush. /casablanca
posted by chris24 at 7:06 AM on August 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
He’s a Gemini. Do you know what a Gemini is?
Not many people have heard of astrology
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:08 AM on August 29, 2017 [17 favorites]
Not many people have heard of astrology
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:08 AM on August 29, 2017 [17 favorites]
Hah, of course.
"Impeachment proceedings will give the embattled Trump the opportunity to unify the country and look Presidential." [fake]
posted by notyou at 7:09 AM on August 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
"Impeachment proceedings will give the embattled Trump the opportunity to unify the country and look Presidential." [fake]
posted by notyou at 7:09 AM on August 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
The NYT yet again reconfirms that my decision to buy a subscription to Teen Vogue instead of the NYT was a good one.
Here's what I don't get. The NYT is so hated by the Republicans that they'll never give up their hatred. They could fire their entire staff, hire everyone from Breitbart and write nothing but effusive toadying praise of Trump and the NYT would still be hated as a "liberal" newspaper.
Given that they are already, and forevermore, branded as the epitome of Evil Liberal Media, why are they still pandering to the right, hiring lunatic and factually wrong right wing commentators, and writing right wing apologista? What, exactly, do they imagine that they are gaining?
Same goes for MSNBC.
You're doomed, if that's the right word, to be the "liberal media" no matter what you do so embrace it and try being actually liberal for a change!
But nope, they still strive to be FOX News Lite, aiming for an imagined readership/viewership that is best characterized as "sane conservative" rather than actual liberal or leftist.
It's frustrating and seems like bad business. There's clearly a large number of actual liberals and leftists in America, you'd think making a product to appeal to that market would make sense. But nope, they're still chasing after the FOX News demographic and basically telling everyone to the left of Lord Voldemort that their filthy money isn't good enough.
posted by sotonohito at 7:14 AM on August 29, 2017 [57 favorites]
Here's what I don't get. The NYT is so hated by the Republicans that they'll never give up their hatred. They could fire their entire staff, hire everyone from Breitbart and write nothing but effusive toadying praise of Trump and the NYT would still be hated as a "liberal" newspaper.
Given that they are already, and forevermore, branded as the epitome of Evil Liberal Media, why are they still pandering to the right, hiring lunatic and factually wrong right wing commentators, and writing right wing apologista? What, exactly, do they imagine that they are gaining?
Same goes for MSNBC.
You're doomed, if that's the right word, to be the "liberal media" no matter what you do so embrace it and try being actually liberal for a change!
But nope, they still strive to be FOX News Lite, aiming for an imagined readership/viewership that is best characterized as "sane conservative" rather than actual liberal or leftist.
It's frustrating and seems like bad business. There's clearly a large number of actual liberals and leftists in America, you'd think making a product to appeal to that market would make sense. But nope, they're still chasing after the FOX News demographic and basically telling everyone to the left of Lord Voldemort that their filthy money isn't good enough.
posted by sotonohito at 7:14 AM on August 29, 2017 [57 favorites]
I think they probably see themselves as centrist. The issue isn't so much with the NYT - which, to give them credit for what they are, has not claimed to be left wing - and more with the lack of viable left wing outlets.
posted by jaduncan at 7:20 AM on August 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by jaduncan at 7:20 AM on August 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
NY Times apparently back on its bullshit again.
Did you read the article? I think it is true that a natural disaster is a way that Trump or any other president *could* present a unified message. That is what the article states and then gives a million examples of how the president has acted like he has tied his own two shoes together in previous crises as well as this one.
On preview: what cjelli said.
posted by mmascolino at 7:20 AM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Did you read the article? I think it is true that a natural disaster is a way that Trump or any other president *could* present a unified message. That is what the article states and then gives a million examples of how the president has acted like he has tied his own two shoes together in previous crises as well as this one.
On preview: what cjelli said.
posted by mmascolino at 7:20 AM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's frustrating and seems like bad business. There's clearly a large number of actual liberals and leftists in America, you'd think making a product to appeal to that market would make sense. But nope, they're still chasing after the FOX News demographic and basically telling everyone to the left of Lord Voldemort that their filthy money isn't good enough.
And the irony is that to appeal to that demographic, all they have to do is report the freakin' news without watering it down with intellectually dishonest, reality-denying right wing nonsense (are you listening, NPR?). Drop the conservative talking points and framing and David Brooks and false equivalence, and hey presto, you'll have a better product that will appeal to people for that very reason, instead of trying to appeal to an audience that does not exist.
The "liberal media" criticism is not rooted in good faith and never has been. Bending over backwards to adopt conservative framing is not about fairness; it's about using their platforms to uncritically convey conservative propaganda. They don't have to. They shouldn't.
posted by Gelatin at 7:21 AM on August 29, 2017 [57 favorites]
And the irony is that to appeal to that demographic, all they have to do is report the freakin' news without watering it down with intellectually dishonest, reality-denying right wing nonsense (are you listening, NPR?). Drop the conservative talking points and framing and David Brooks and false equivalence, and hey presto, you'll have a better product that will appeal to people for that very reason, instead of trying to appeal to an audience that does not exist.
The "liberal media" criticism is not rooted in good faith and never has been. Bending over backwards to adopt conservative framing is not about fairness; it's about using their platforms to uncritically convey conservative propaganda. They don't have to. They shouldn't.
posted by Gelatin at 7:21 AM on August 29, 2017 [57 favorites]
It's hard to read the whole of that article and come away with a good impression of how Trump is behaving
But Glenn is doing his best so that you do.
The article very easily could have, and should have, been a clear indictment of a president letting his VP do the hard work, only caring about optics, and squandering opportunities to actually lead and unite. Instead it's a mealy mouthed ode to the possibilities of recapturing, reclaiming, unifying, "a man whose future depends on getting this right."
posted by chris24 at 7:29 AM on August 29, 2017 [15 favorites]
But Glenn is doing his best so that you do.
The article very easily could have, and should have, been a clear indictment of a president letting his VP do the hard work, only caring about optics, and squandering opportunities to actually lead and unite. Instead it's a mealy mouthed ode to the possibilities of recapturing, reclaiming, unifying, "a man whose future depends on getting this right."
In announcing his trips, he used the dulcet, reassuring and uplifting language of prior presidents. His rhetoric was strikingly different from his much-criticized pronouncements at a news conference this month when he equated the actions of leftist protesters in Charlottesville, Va., with the violent, torch-wielding alt-right activists who hurled anti-Semitic and racist epithets.Dulcet tones? Seriously, if people think this is an article damning him as strongly as it should, I don't know what to say. You have to get to the 8th paragraph to get to anything that isn't kissing his ass.
posted by chris24 at 7:29 AM on August 29, 2017 [15 favorites]
WP: The House Ethics Committee is reviewing allegations that Rep. Chris Collins (R-N.Y.) engaged in misconduct, four months after his personal investment practices came under scrutiny in the media.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:31 AM on August 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 7:31 AM on August 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
I'm keeping an eye on what happens in Springfield, MO tomorrow. Trump will be speaking in a closed event at a manufacturing company. A protest is being organized; it will be held at the local Teamsters hall, a little under two miles from the event. The plan is for protesters to march the 2 miles from the hall to the manufacturing company.
Some relevant factors...
1. 500 people are signed up on the Facebook event page to attend. This probably isn't an accurate number, but if that many people do show up, it will be huge. This isn't a town where big protests happen -- or big public gatherings of any kind, really. For comparison, the most newsworthy protest in recent years was a "Free the Nipple" demonstration where some young women gathered downtown topless with Xs over their nips; this led to a change in local law, specifying the exact amount of boob that must be covered while out in public.
2. Guns are extremely easy to procure in SGF, and open-carry is legal without a permit.
3. I've heard the KKK will be in attendance.
4. The cops in SGF are about as racist and fascist as you'd expect.
As Trump proclaimed proudly on Twitter while Houston succumbed to the deluge, he did win MO by a lot. The state has one Republican senator who won his race against Dem challenger Jason Kander with a fairly close margin; and one Dem senator, Claire McCaskill, whose upcoming race in 2018 is considered to be one of the closest, if not the closest, in the Senate.
Which is all to say, anything could happen.
posted by the turtle's teeth at 7:37 AM on August 29, 2017 [35 favorites]
Some relevant factors...
1. 500 people are signed up on the Facebook event page to attend. This probably isn't an accurate number, but if that many people do show up, it will be huge. This isn't a town where big protests happen -- or big public gatherings of any kind, really. For comparison, the most newsworthy protest in recent years was a "Free the Nipple" demonstration where some young women gathered downtown topless with Xs over their nips; this led to a change in local law, specifying the exact amount of boob that must be covered while out in public.
2. Guns are extremely easy to procure in SGF, and open-carry is legal without a permit.
3. I've heard the KKK will be in attendance.
4. The cops in SGF are about as racist and fascist as you'd expect.
As Trump proclaimed proudly on Twitter while Houston succumbed to the deluge, he did win MO by a lot. The state has one Republican senator who won his race against Dem challenger Jason Kander with a fairly close margin; and one Dem senator, Claire McCaskill, whose upcoming race in 2018 is considered to be one of the closest, if not the closest, in the Senate.
Which is all to say, anything could happen.
posted by the turtle's teeth at 7:37 AM on August 29, 2017 [35 favorites]
Wait, actual nazi Laura Ingraham said that?
posted by Artw at 7:39 AM on August 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:39 AM on August 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
Wait, actual nazi Laura Ingraham said that?
Yeah, even the Nazis are getting kinda sick of Trump and occasionally criticizing. Usually because he's not being awful enough, but sometimes even they recognize the incompetence.
posted by chris24 at 7:42 AM on August 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
Yeah, even the Nazis are getting kinda sick of Trump and occasionally criticizing. Usually because he's not being awful enough, but sometimes even they recognize the incompetence.
posted by chris24 at 7:42 AM on August 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
I guess I'm missing something in the Mattis speech.
“You’re a great example of our country right now.” ... “Our country, right now, it’s got problems that we don’t have in the military. You just hold the line until our country gets back to understanding and respecting each other and showing it.”
When I read that, I thought he was saying 1) The military is not as racist and X-phobic as some parts of America are acting, and
2) Ignore the crap the President is saying and get on with your normal selves.
posted by MtDewd at 7:42 AM on August 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
“You’re a great example of our country right now.” ... “Our country, right now, it’s got problems that we don’t have in the military. You just hold the line until our country gets back to understanding and respecting each other and showing it.”
When I read that, I thought he was saying 1) The military is not as racist and X-phobic as some parts of America are acting, and
2) Ignore the crap the President is saying and get on with your normal selves.
posted by MtDewd at 7:42 AM on August 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
It's not the readers the executives at the NYT worry about. It's the advertisers. Readers are the product, sold to advertisers, not the market.
posted by Rykey at 7:43 AM on August 29, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by Rykey at 7:43 AM on August 29, 2017 [19 favorites]
he shook his head in disbelief and compared the situation to problems he experienced when managing his family’s apartment buildings in New York. “Water damage is the worst,” he told one staff member, “tough, tough, tough.”
everything comes back to new york real estate.
also this is as close to empathy as you're going to get from the man. people flooded out of their homes == building maintenance is such a pain, amirite?
posted by murphy slaw at 7:44 AM on August 29, 2017 [52 favorites]
everything comes back to new york real estate.
also this is as close to empathy as you're going to get from the man. people flooded out of their homes == building maintenance is such a pain, amirite?
posted by murphy slaw at 7:44 AM on August 29, 2017 [52 favorites]
You're nailing it today, cjelli! You win the day!
posted by Melismata at 7:57 AM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Melismata at 7:57 AM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
I seem to recall some joke/rule that the headline of an article will confirm right-wing beliefs while the content of the article will confirm left-wing beliefs, because the left was more likely to read an entire article.
posted by RobotHero at 8:01 AM on August 29, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by RobotHero at 8:01 AM on August 29, 2017 [21 favorites]
Continuing to employ David Brooks is equally as indefensible as hiring Bret Stephens. The NYT absolutely does play foil to the right wing "liberal media" narrative. They want the respect and love of Mitt Romney Republicans above all else, and they are scornful and dismissive of any criticism from the left of that goal.
And that attitude directly lead to the Trump Presidency when the NYT preemptively started digging for "the first scandal of the Clinton Presidency" as soon as she announced, and subsequently ran hundreds of bogus emails stories to support their preestablished narrative.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:03 AM on August 29, 2017 [23 favorites]
And that attitude directly lead to the Trump Presidency when the NYT preemptively started digging for "the first scandal of the Clinton Presidency" as soon as she announced, and subsequently ran hundreds of bogus emails stories to support their preestablished narrative.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:03 AM on August 29, 2017 [23 favorites]
I wish Slate wouldn't have such click bait headlines about the Mattis speech - it's true he has almost definitely lost faith in the President (if he ever had it) but I would prefer for the President not to know that.
posted by corb at 8:05 AM on August 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by corb at 8:05 AM on August 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
But I think that, read as a whole, it is on balance damning.
As anem0ne said, the framing in the Times' tweets and FB posts, the headline/url, and the first half the article are all basically pro-Trump. That's all 90+% will ever see. The opaque, non-critical framing of the rest of the article will have little impact on anyone who doesn't already oppose him, if it's even seen.
posted by chris24 at 8:05 AM on August 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
As anem0ne said, the framing in the Times' tweets and FB posts, the headline/url, and the first half the article are all basically pro-Trump. That's all 90+% will ever see. The opaque, non-critical framing of the rest of the article will have little impact on anyone who doesn't already oppose him, if it's even seen.
posted by chris24 at 8:05 AM on August 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
I'm pretty sure the president doesn't read Slate, or anything else really.
posted by Melismata at 8:08 AM on August 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 8:08 AM on August 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
Yeah, putting any bit of news in Slate is almost guaranteed to be the best way to keep Trrump from finding out about it.
posted by From Bklyn at 8:17 AM on August 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by From Bklyn at 8:17 AM on August 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
cjelli, sorry if I was a little more adamant on that than I needed to be, especially since we're basically agreeing. My cousin, her husband and pets are needing to be rescued and still waiting for a boat right now and I'm a wee bit irritated with the Times making Houston sound like his chance to redeem himself.
posted by chris24 at 8:23 AM on August 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 8:23 AM on August 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
and I'm a wee bit irritated with the Times making Houston sound like his chance to redeem himself.
Nothing new about that. The media wants Trump to fit into their neat narrative, not the other way around. They have no imagination.
posted by Melismata at 8:26 AM on August 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
Nothing new about that. The media wants Trump to fit into their neat narrative, not the other way around. They have no imagination.
posted by Melismata at 8:26 AM on August 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
Nothing new about that. The media wants Trump to fit into their neat narrative, not the other way around. They have no imagination.
I disagree -- they have too much. They don't have the courage to see the plain evidence in front of them, and instead have to imagine Trump as a normal president.
posted by Gelatin at 8:29 AM on August 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
I disagree -- they have too much. They don't have the courage to see the plain evidence in front of them, and instead have to imagine Trump as a normal president.
posted by Gelatin at 8:29 AM on August 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
Imagine what a better place the country would be if everyone stopped imagining Trump as a normal president.
posted by Melismata at 8:37 AM on August 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 8:37 AM on August 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
Imagine what a better place the country would be if everyone stoppedFTFM.imaginingTrumpas a normal president.
posted by XtinaS at 8:39 AM on August 29, 2017 [18 favorites]
Melania Trump Rocks Flawless Emergency Aid Look En Route to Texas First comment: "She looks like she was about to go to a Top Gun themed party before Cheeto dragged her on this stupid vanity trip."
posted by kirkaracha at 8:53 AM on August 29, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 8:53 AM on August 29, 2017 [17 favorites]
Yes, lots of pics going around of Melania and her super high heels, with T showing a thumbs up. Again, no imagination.
posted by Melismata at 8:55 AM on August 29, 2017
posted by Melismata at 8:55 AM on August 29, 2017
Nothing could say more about the practical boots-on-the-ground effectiveness of a presidential visit than Melania's shoes.
posted by adept256 at 8:57 AM on August 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by adept256 at 8:57 AM on August 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
Ironic that Trump is finally going to an actual swamp in need of actual draining. I'm sure he will be as effective in reality as he has been in metaphor.
posted by Autumnheart at 8:58 AM on August 29, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by Autumnheart at 8:58 AM on August 29, 2017 [17 favorites]
True adept256, but sexy heels sell newspaper subscriptions.
posted by Melismata at 8:58 AM on August 29, 2017
posted by Melismata at 8:58 AM on August 29, 2017
Somebody do one of those graphics where it shows the price of each article of clothing (for both of them). That GQ shit or whatever.
posted by gucci mane at 9:02 AM on August 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by gucci mane at 9:02 AM on August 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
I guess Melania will drain the swamp by puncturing a hole through the Earth's crust.
posted by adept256 at 9:03 AM on August 29, 2017 [53 favorites]
posted by adept256 at 9:03 AM on August 29, 2017 [53 favorites]
...and now the main front page of the Boston Globe has the photo of Melania FRONT AND CENTER, with those heels blatantly obvious, with T off to the side as an afterthought. Because those heels are important!!!
I really want to stop ranting about the media, really I do, but they drive me so crazy!!
posted by Melismata at 9:05 AM on August 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
I really want to stop ranting about the media, really I do, but they drive me so crazy!!
posted by Melismata at 9:05 AM on August 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
Given that they are already, and forevermore, branded as the epitome of Evil Liberal Media, why are they still pandering to the right, hiring lunatic and factually wrong right wing commentators, and writing right wing apologista? What, exactly, do they imagine that they are gaining?
Exciting scoops aside, and barring intermittent crises of conscience, all corporate news organizations are expressly controlled to keep things the way they are (tm). The reasons for this run from simple economics to other plausible reasons. Regardéz les Top Five.
11/9 should have been the death knell of corporate news media but perhaps it's more like the spread of dry rot.
The NYT is not among the Top Five based on asset ownership, but hey, it's failing I hear.
posted by petebest at 9:06 AM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Exciting scoops aside, and barring intermittent crises of conscience, all corporate news organizations are expressly controlled to keep things the way they are (tm). The reasons for this run from simple economics to other plausible reasons. Regardéz les Top Five.
11/9 should have been the death knell of corporate news media but perhaps it's more like the spread of dry rot.
The NYT is not among the Top Five based on asset ownership, but hey, it's failing I hear.
posted by petebest at 9:06 AM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Oh my fucking GOD, in the middle of the worst natural disaster in memory, a disaster made immeasurably worse by the fact that a demented, malignant narcissist is in charge, can we please not go after the narcissist's WIFE for her fucking sartorial choices?
Did you people learn fucking nothing from the election? Did you not learn how misogyny works? Or do you just not care?
Melania, asshole though she might be, is fucking irrelevant. The only reason to attack her fucking shoes rather than her husband's EVERYTHING is "lol women."
STOP.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:07 AM on August 29, 2017 [115 favorites]
Did you people learn fucking nothing from the election? Did you not learn how misogyny works? Or do you just not care?
Melania, asshole though she might be, is fucking irrelevant. The only reason to attack her fucking shoes rather than her husband's EVERYTHING is "lol women."
STOP.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:07 AM on August 29, 2017 [115 favorites]
Not only "lol women" but also "hey hot babes sell papers."
posted by Melismata at 9:08 AM on August 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 9:08 AM on August 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
He’s a Gemini. Do you know what a Gemini is?
Are we back to Astrology and Presidents again ? What's next from the 80s - My acne and puberty ? Parachute pants ?
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 9:16 AM on August 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
Are we back to Astrology and Presidents again ? What's next from the 80s - My acne and puberty ? Parachute pants ?
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 9:16 AM on August 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
Are we back to Astrology and Presidents again ? What's next from the 80s - My acne and puberty ? Parachute pants ?
Fear of dying in a nuclear holocaust brought on by an idiot who doesn't understand what's going on around him is so hot right now.
posted by Etrigan at 9:18 AM on August 29, 2017 [42 favorites]
Fear of dying in a nuclear holocaust brought on by an idiot who doesn't understand what's going on around him is so hot right now.
posted by Etrigan at 9:18 AM on August 29, 2017 [42 favorites]
The point of making fun of her shoes is that it underlines the Trumps' inability to recognize the most basic of pragmatic choices, like don't wear 4" stilettos to an area with saturated ground. It's a reflection of how utterly out of touch they both are. It's a fine line, but it's not just about "linking clothing choice to capability as role model", it's about "Can you actually provide genuine leadership in even a very small and limited role?" The fact that Trump is visiting a disaster area while rescue efforts are still underway is egregious, but the whole thing with the clothes and the comments about ratings just underlines how unapologetically they are there only for show, only for the benefit of their own image.
posted by Autumnheart at 9:20 AM on August 29, 2017 [88 favorites]
posted by Autumnheart at 9:20 AM on August 29, 2017 [88 favorites]
Eh, first ladies usually have a clue about what the fuck they're doing. Melania's tone-deafness seems relevant to the overall "fuck you, little people" that permeates Trump's family and administration.
posted by Rykey at 9:21 AM on August 29, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by Rykey at 9:21 AM on August 29, 2017 [34 favorites]
I am worried that the Jerk showing up in Texas is going to stress resources that really need to be directed towards helping the actual people who are in danger or otherwise in need of aid. This situation is so terrible and a "presidential" visit, especially with someone so incompetent, seems like the worst way to handle the crisis.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:23 AM on August 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:23 AM on August 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
Man, I sure wish people would stop giving their clicks to North Korea Missile stories, I can't think of a topic more irrelevant to daily US existence. Chances are good we'll all die by Trump-imposed famine before NK can fly a firecracker to Hawaii.
posted by rhizome at 9:23 AM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 9:23 AM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Oh my fucking God, AGAIN, given two targets, one of whom is the actual elected president and is incompetent, small minded, bigoted, and narcissistic, but is a man, and the other of whom is not elected to jack nor shit and has no actual authority over anything but IS a woman, you don't see the goddamn problem with focusing on her ducking fashion choices?
posted by schadenfrau at 9:25 AM on August 29, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by schadenfrau at 9:25 AM on August 29, 2017 [24 favorites]
Unfortunately, a lot of people will not say "wow, she is clueless," and instead say, "hey, hot babe, good for him for landing such a hot babe." And it's the media's fault for publishing the photos. Argh.
posted by Melismata at 9:25 AM on August 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 9:25 AM on August 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
The point of making fun of her shoes is that it underlines the Trumps' inability to recognize the most basic of pragmatic choices, like don't wear 4" stilettos to an area with saturated ground. It's a reflection of how utterly out of touch they both are.
Then give his shoes an equal share in the spotlight. His shoes are most likely equally as impractical - they're not stillettos, yeah, but are they waterproof? High-ankle? How much did he pay for those shoes that are now going to be ruined and how much is the taxpayer going to have to dish out to reimburse him for his shoes?
If they're both out of touch - which they are - spotlight both of them when you talk smack. Him even more so becuase she's not the god-damn president.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:25 AM on August 29, 2017 [32 favorites]
Then give his shoes an equal share in the spotlight. His shoes are most likely equally as impractical - they're not stillettos, yeah, but are they waterproof? High-ankle? How much did he pay for those shoes that are now going to be ruined and how much is the taxpayer going to have to dish out to reimburse him for his shoes?
If they're both out of touch - which they are - spotlight both of them when you talk smack. Him even more so becuase she's not the god-damn president.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:25 AM on August 29, 2017 [32 favorites]
Surprise Twist: They were Michelle's shoes.
posted by petebest at 9:28 AM on August 29, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by petebest at 9:28 AM on August 29, 2017 [14 favorites]
TFA does mock his choice of khakis "for the golf course".
posted by Fleebnork at 9:29 AM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Fleebnork at 9:29 AM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
I find it pretty gross here and elsewhere, there are comments on sites not as nice as here calling her all sorts of names. Sorry if you can't see the inherent misogyny you are participating in, but please, please stop.
posted by agregoli at 9:30 AM on August 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by agregoli at 9:30 AM on August 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
The true, top-secret story behind Trump's North Korea conflict
posted by kirkaracha at 9:30 AM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 9:30 AM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Has the possibility been discussed that some of those black-clad antifa members might not really be antifa, but people who are tring to paint the left/antifa as violent anti-Trumpists? Such a thing would be entirely plausible as a Russian op. I don't know if it's been disproven, though.
Peddle your false-flag/just-sayin crap elsewhere, Alex Jones. The right wing always brings up this conspiracy bullshit whenever their guys cause violence, and sensible people shoot it down. Your theory, like every "false flag" theory, deserves to be thrown in the garbage unless you have compelling evidence on your side.
posted by Guy Smiley at 9:30 AM on August 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Peddle your false-flag/just-sayin crap elsewhere, Alex Jones. The right wing always brings up this conspiracy bullshit whenever their guys cause violence, and sensible people shoot it down. Your theory, like every "false flag" theory, deserves to be thrown in the garbage unless you have compelling evidence on your side.
posted by Guy Smiley at 9:30 AM on August 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
More like Guy Angry, amirite
posted by Guy Smiley at 9:31 AM on August 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Guy Smiley at 9:31 AM on August 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
Had a sudden wave of calm hit me this morning through which I felt I could see the future:
Trump resigns amidst tightening Enron-style investigation and turning GOP, somtime in the next
18 months.
Pence pardons in whatever capacity is requested by Trump, appoints Rep heavy for VP (Rubio?).
Horrible weakened RNC runs Pence/Rubio(?) ticket, against sudden agent-of-change figure Sanders DNC has to admit they've lost power and has to give it to Sanders' popularity.
Trump boos GOP from the sidelines, undermining their campaign even more.
Sanders wins 2020 on universal healthcare/other socialist values campaign.
Or maybe I hit my head, and I'm just dreaming while bleeding out on the floor right now.
posted by rc3spencer at 9:34 AM on August 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
Trump resigns amidst tightening Enron-style investigation and turning GOP, somtime in the next
18 months.
Pence pardons in whatever capacity is requested by Trump, appoints Rep heavy for VP (Rubio?).
Horrible weakened RNC runs Pence/Rubio(?) ticket, against sudden agent-of-change figure Sanders DNC has to admit they've lost power and has to give it to Sanders' popularity.
Trump boos GOP from the sidelines, undermining their campaign even more.
Sanders wins 2020 on universal healthcare/other socialist values campaign.
Or maybe I hit my head, and I'm just dreaming while bleeding out on the floor right now.
posted by rc3spencer at 9:34 AM on August 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
I agree with calling out our own misogyny when it crops up, but surely those shoes are also misogynistic!
Melania's shoes are relevant to misogyny because her image is a carefully curated image designed for her most misogynistic of husbands. That is not the tack I am usually seeing on this one, sadly.
posted by corb at 9:35 AM on August 29, 2017 [19 favorites]
Melania's shoes are relevant to misogyny because her image is a carefully curated image designed for her most misogynistic of husbands. That is not the tack I am usually seeing on this one, sadly.
posted by corb at 9:35 AM on August 29, 2017 [19 favorites]
Your theory, like every "false flag" theory, deserves to be thrown in the garbage unless you have compelling evidence on your side.
I mean, except that there is a well documented (but not complete!) history of American law enforcement engaging in exactly these tactics. COINTELPRO, etc. (is there evidence of similar ops during Occupy? Genuinely don't know, don't care to fall down that rabbit hole.)
As far as I know, I've never seen evidence of organized Left groups engaging in the same tactics. (If only because it requires a level of surveillance and recon and general counter intelligence that protest groups don't have the resources to meet.) Correct me if I'm wrong, of course, but as it stands...
I mean. There's a long history of one side doing it. That's kind of important context.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:35 AM on August 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
I mean, except that there is a well documented (but not complete!) history of American law enforcement engaging in exactly these tactics. COINTELPRO, etc. (is there evidence of similar ops during Occupy? Genuinely don't know, don't care to fall down that rabbit hole.)
As far as I know, I've never seen evidence of organized Left groups engaging in the same tactics. (If only because it requires a level of surveillance and recon and general counter intelligence that protest groups don't have the resources to meet.) Correct me if I'm wrong, of course, but as it stands...
I mean. There's a long history of one side doing it. That's kind of important context.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:35 AM on August 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
It seems fair to point out that they're going for a photoshoot and a prepped speech and are dressed accordingly. If they really wanted to do the right thing, they'd get out of the way.
NYT from upthread: one that offers him an opportunity to recapture some of the unifying power of his office he has squandered in recent weeks.
That's what bothers me more. All he has to do is support the rescue/recovery effort, pledge some aid, say a prayer and fly off. What could go wrong? Almost anything! He could blame Paris or the Chinese hoax or both sides, we don't know! Even basic Pres. stuff eludes this man.
posted by adept256 at 9:37 AM on August 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
NYT from upthread: one that offers him an opportunity to recapture some of the unifying power of his office he has squandered in recent weeks.
That's what bothers me more. All he has to do is support the rescue/recovery effort, pledge some aid, say a prayer and fly off. What could go wrong? Almost anything! He could blame Paris or the Chinese hoax or both sides, we don't know! Even basic Pres. stuff eludes this man.
posted by adept256 at 9:37 AM on August 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
Bernie Sanders will be 78 in 2020. I hope we will have a younger candidate.
posted by agregoli at 9:37 AM on August 29, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by agregoli at 9:37 AM on August 29, 2017 [20 favorites]
Shoegate is over, from pictures of the arrival of AF1 Melania has changed into white tennis shoes. Also a black hat that says FLOTUS.
posted by peeedro at 9:38 AM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by peeedro at 9:38 AM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Or maybe I hit my head, and I'm just dreaming while bleeding out on the floor right now.
Sorry to break it to you, but as you suspected, you're in a Jacob's Ladder scenario.
posted by baltimoretim at 9:39 AM on August 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
Sorry to break it to you, but as you suspected, you're in a Jacob's Ladder scenario.
posted by baltimoretim at 9:39 AM on August 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
Well, when Melania makes the choice to arbitrarily go somewhere she is totally not needed because her outlandish statements pardoning white supremacists didn't provide the image boost she was expecting, then I guess we will focus on those things. But considering her only contribution to this farce of a presidency has been to literally serve as a fashion model, then it's appropriate to criticize her focus on that instead of, you know, having an opinion or a set of principles.
This isn't Hillary Clinton, an experienced and brilliant politician and public servant, who can't get elected because she wears pantsuits. This is a fashion model, being a fashion model, bringing her fashion modeling to a literal disaster area as part of the entire Trump operation to boost their own personal brand. The whole fucking thing is inappropriate and she is contributing to that of her own choosing. She doesn't get to be free from criticism just because she's a woman. She could, at the very, very least, do what other First Ladies have done and make a photo op out of standing in a hard hat in front of a flat of water bottles, or something, but instead she's just going to go along with promoting her own shit no matter how ridiculous, because that's what they do.
posted by Autumnheart at 9:40 AM on August 29, 2017 [67 favorites]
This isn't Hillary Clinton, an experienced and brilliant politician and public servant, who can't get elected because she wears pantsuits. This is a fashion model, being a fashion model, bringing her fashion modeling to a literal disaster area as part of the entire Trump operation to boost their own personal brand. The whole fucking thing is inappropriate and she is contributing to that of her own choosing. She doesn't get to be free from criticism just because she's a woman. She could, at the very, very least, do what other First Ladies have done and make a photo op out of standing in a hard hat in front of a flat of water bottles, or something, but instead she's just going to go along with promoting her own shit no matter how ridiculous, because that's what they do.
posted by Autumnheart at 9:40 AM on August 29, 2017 [67 favorites]
That's funny, people are painting FLOTUS on their rooftops in support of the visit for some reason.
posted by adept256 at 9:41 AM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by adept256 at 9:41 AM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Gonna need a [real] or [fake] on that one, adept.
posted by Yowser at 9:43 AM on August 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 9:43 AM on August 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Literally no one is arguing that Melania isn't an asshole. We are pointing out that choosing to focus on Melania's assholery when she is literally standing next to the screaming collapsing star void of assholery who is actually in charge is mysoginistic as fuck, so will you please stop already.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:45 AM on August 29, 2017 [36 favorites]
posted by schadenfrau at 9:45 AM on August 29, 2017 [36 favorites]
I'm assuming nobody promised Houston that Melania would be participating in actual water rescues, so who the fuck cares what shoes she's wearing.
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:46 AM on August 29, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:46 AM on August 29, 2017 [19 favorites]
Sorry to break it to you, but as you suspected, you're in a Jacob's Ladder scenario.
It would be an An Occurence at Owl Creek Bridge scenario, but the bridge is currently under three feet of water.
posted by Quindar Beep at 9:52 AM on August 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
It would be an An Occurence at Owl Creek Bridge scenario, but the bridge is currently under three feet of water.
posted by Quindar Beep at 9:52 AM on August 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
Mod note: Folks, at this point let's call it good on the Melania's shoes thing.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 9:53 AM on August 29, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 9:53 AM on August 29, 2017 [22 favorites]
Given that they are already, and forevermore, branded as the epitome of Evil Liberal Media, why are they still pandering to the right, hiring lunatic and factually wrong right wing commentators, and writing right wing apologista? What, exactly, do they imagine that they are gaining?
The owners and shareholders of the NYT are part of the .1% class, and if you dig a little into many of the top reporters and columnists you will find that they too are connected, either through family, marriage, or previous jobs and schools, to the top .1%. That tiny group of people are extremely powerful and lean heavily right. The owners, shareholders, and many of the top reporters and columnists may or may not lean left, but they know who not to piss off too much if they want to keep things cool at home and at dinner parties in the city. They want to cover their asses with both sides-ism to maintain their perch socially and financially.
posted by cell divide at 9:53 AM on August 29, 2017 [53 favorites]
The owners and shareholders of the NYT are part of the .1% class, and if you dig a little into many of the top reporters and columnists you will find that they too are connected, either through family, marriage, or previous jobs and schools, to the top .1%. That tiny group of people are extremely powerful and lean heavily right. The owners, shareholders, and many of the top reporters and columnists may or may not lean left, but they know who not to piss off too much if they want to keep things cool at home and at dinner parties in the city. They want to cover their asses with both sides-ism to maintain their perch socially and financially.
posted by cell divide at 9:53 AM on August 29, 2017 [53 favorites]
amen, cell divide.
posted by Melismata at 9:58 AM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Melismata at 9:58 AM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
In re false flags and antifa:
1. Not in the moment, but later, activists in a given community should have some idea whether something was a false flag or not. This is not 100% guaranteed, but it is likely that any group of people doing antifa stuff will be known in activist circles, at least in passing.
In the moment, it's possible to misidentify people - so it's important not to look at someone and say "I don't know them, they're a cop", unless you have serious reasons to say that.
"Antifa", which is really basically "the people from any given activist community who get into scuffles when the need seems to arise", aren't a mysterious secret group. If you hang around activist circles, leftist bookstores, universities, the scruffier kind of coffee house, younger queer communities, etc, you are meeting people who at least loosely fit the definition of "antifa".
I am totally serious about this - don't let the media bullshit you. Antifa are perfectly ordinary activists who mostly do perfectly ordinary activist things. Some of them are smart, some of them are reckless, some of them are teenagers, some of them are adults, some of them are POC, some of them are white. They are students, workers, the unemployed. Some of them are highly theorized, some of them really just think that antifa tactics are the best tactics for the problems they see in front of them.
All this media attention seems really weird to me, and seems designed to make liberals and progressives who don't do a lot of protesting (which is fine! you don't need to be out in the street to prove things or make a difference!) think that "antifa" is some kind of bunch of weird out of control Red Army Faction in training.
Anyway, it is most likely that any kind of provocateur/false flag stuff will be apparent to other protest attendees, either because of how it's done or because of who does it. This will emerge after the event.
2. The antifa stuff I have seen seems like antifa stuff to me, not anything sketchy. "Punch the nazis and run them out of town" is pretty standard.
3. This is just spitballing, but things that would immediately make me wonder would be things like obvious weapons escalation (eg, Nazis have sticks, someone brings a gun, not Nazis have sticks and someone brings a really big stick); actions that seem intended to kill or gravely injure (not just something that could gravely injure, because people can be all kinds of fool, but something like using a knife or trying to set someone on fire that could only be done if you're willing to kill); physical attacks on the elderly, disabled people or children.
My experience around punchy activists is that people do not generally escalate past punching and maybe sticks, or throwing things at cops. This is not a 100% rule for everyone everywhere, but as long as I've been in activist circles in the US, it has generally held true. The right is willing to kill people; the left, as a broad generality, is not.
So for instance, I'd expect a car attack or firing into the crowd from the right or a provocateur, but not the left, no matter how punchy.
Feel as you like about violence, but be aware that there are cultural norms around it that differ between the left and right.
posted by Frowner at 9:58 AM on August 29, 2017 [108 favorites]
1. Not in the moment, but later, activists in a given community should have some idea whether something was a false flag or not. This is not 100% guaranteed, but it is likely that any group of people doing antifa stuff will be known in activist circles, at least in passing.
In the moment, it's possible to misidentify people - so it's important not to look at someone and say "I don't know them, they're a cop", unless you have serious reasons to say that.
"Antifa", which is really basically "the people from any given activist community who get into scuffles when the need seems to arise", aren't a mysterious secret group. If you hang around activist circles, leftist bookstores, universities, the scruffier kind of coffee house, younger queer communities, etc, you are meeting people who at least loosely fit the definition of "antifa".
I am totally serious about this - don't let the media bullshit you. Antifa are perfectly ordinary activists who mostly do perfectly ordinary activist things. Some of them are smart, some of them are reckless, some of them are teenagers, some of them are adults, some of them are POC, some of them are white. They are students, workers, the unemployed. Some of them are highly theorized, some of them really just think that antifa tactics are the best tactics for the problems they see in front of them.
All this media attention seems really weird to me, and seems designed to make liberals and progressives who don't do a lot of protesting (which is fine! you don't need to be out in the street to prove things or make a difference!) think that "antifa" is some kind of bunch of weird out of control Red Army Faction in training.
Anyway, it is most likely that any kind of provocateur/false flag stuff will be apparent to other protest attendees, either because of how it's done or because of who does it. This will emerge after the event.
2. The antifa stuff I have seen seems like antifa stuff to me, not anything sketchy. "Punch the nazis and run them out of town" is pretty standard.
3. This is just spitballing, but things that would immediately make me wonder would be things like obvious weapons escalation (eg, Nazis have sticks, someone brings a gun, not Nazis have sticks and someone brings a really big stick); actions that seem intended to kill or gravely injure (not just something that could gravely injure, because people can be all kinds of fool, but something like using a knife or trying to set someone on fire that could only be done if you're willing to kill); physical attacks on the elderly, disabled people or children.
My experience around punchy activists is that people do not generally escalate past punching and maybe sticks, or throwing things at cops. This is not a 100% rule for everyone everywhere, but as long as I've been in activist circles in the US, it has generally held true. The right is willing to kill people; the left, as a broad generality, is not.
So for instance, I'd expect a car attack or firing into the crowd from the right or a provocateur, but not the left, no matter how punchy.
Feel as you like about violence, but be aware that there are cultural norms around it that differ between the left and right.
posted by Frowner at 9:58 AM on August 29, 2017 [108 favorites]
Imagine there's no Donald
It's easy if you try...
posted by Meatbomb at 10:02 AM on August 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
It's easy if you try...
posted by Meatbomb at 10:02 AM on August 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
Had a sudden wave of calm hit me this morning through which I felt I could see the future:
I've stopped being so acutely worried about Trump, myself, because his end is clearly in sight, it's just a question of when and exactly how. My own sense is that he will resign (rage-quit), much sooner than we expect, because of either growing talk of his unfitness for office, or because Mueller makes his move (or both). His sense of narcissistic injury, and the rage that follows, all but guarantee some version of this playing out through the fall. I expect then that Pence and the shadow-Dominionist-cabal will make their play, and we'll have to fight that off, but they're mostly dumber than bags of rocks, so I don't expect them to be formidable foes.
Whatever follows that will be...interesting. Probably a huge electoral shift, but that depends to a great degree on local-level success and pushing back against/repealing/etc. encroachment upon voting rights and access. There will be a lot of opportunity for weird shit to happen as (at least) the Republican party will be fractured and roiling around internally for some time, and the Democratic party lacks enough consensus to either capitalize on that or simply step up and hold things together until we have at least a functioning second party again.
But what worries me most are the unknown unknowns, those actors not on the stage that we're watching, who have their own agendas and objectives that have nothing to do with the U.S. and our high drama and etc., but who've been given unexpected and unprecedented opportunity to advance their agendas because suddenly the U.S. government--and all of the activity, presence, etc. that entails world-wide--is not working, or simply not there. We are presenting opportunities to our enemies and malicious actors of all kinds that have quite likely never existed in any of our lifetimes.
That's the thought keeping me distracted most days: what's coming at us from one direction while we're intently looking in another?
posted by LooseFilter at 10:07 AM on August 29, 2017 [18 favorites]
I've stopped being so acutely worried about Trump, myself, because his end is clearly in sight, it's just a question of when and exactly how. My own sense is that he will resign (rage-quit), much sooner than we expect, because of either growing talk of his unfitness for office, or because Mueller makes his move (or both). His sense of narcissistic injury, and the rage that follows, all but guarantee some version of this playing out through the fall. I expect then that Pence and the shadow-Dominionist-cabal will make their play, and we'll have to fight that off, but they're mostly dumber than bags of rocks, so I don't expect them to be formidable foes.
Whatever follows that will be...interesting. Probably a huge electoral shift, but that depends to a great degree on local-level success and pushing back against/repealing/etc. encroachment upon voting rights and access. There will be a lot of opportunity for weird shit to happen as (at least) the Republican party will be fractured and roiling around internally for some time, and the Democratic party lacks enough consensus to either capitalize on that or simply step up and hold things together until we have at least a functioning second party again.
But what worries me most are the unknown unknowns, those actors not on the stage that we're watching, who have their own agendas and objectives that have nothing to do with the U.S. and our high drama and etc., but who've been given unexpected and unprecedented opportunity to advance their agendas because suddenly the U.S. government--and all of the activity, presence, etc. that entails world-wide--is not working, or simply not there. We are presenting opportunities to our enemies and malicious actors of all kinds that have quite likely never existed in any of our lifetimes.
That's the thought keeping me distracted most days: what's coming at us from one direction while we're intently looking in another?
posted by LooseFilter at 10:07 AM on August 29, 2017 [18 favorites]
Shoegate is over, from pictures of the arrival of AF1 Melania has changed into white tennis shoes. Also a black hat that says FLOTUS.
I must be crazy but I really want that hat! I imagine the Trump campaign will be selling them in 3, 2, 1.....
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:08 AM on August 29, 2017
I must be crazy but I really want that hat! I imagine the Trump campaign will be selling them in 3, 2, 1.....
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:08 AM on August 29, 2017
Yeah, even the Nazis are getting kinda sick of Trump and occasionally criticizing. Usually because he's not being awful enough, but sometimes even they recognize the incompetence.
Incompetent Nazis drove many Hogan's Heroes plotlines.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:09 AM on August 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
Incompetent Nazis drove many Hogan's Heroes plotlines.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:09 AM on August 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
The other thing about the punchy left: I've known left wing people who liked fighting - bar fight type people, people who liked throwing punches, liked strategizing, liked winning - but I've never met one who liked hurting. That's a big cultural difference, and it's why you'd never see a left Charlottesville in this country.
I've met left wing people with all kinds of flaws - and of course I have all kinds of flaws myself - but terrorizing and hurting people because you enjoy seeing them terrorized and hurt isn't one of them.
posted by Frowner at 10:16 AM on August 29, 2017 [41 favorites]
I've met left wing people with all kinds of flaws - and of course I have all kinds of flaws myself - but terrorizing and hurting people because you enjoy seeing them terrorized and hurt isn't one of them.
posted by Frowner at 10:16 AM on August 29, 2017 [41 favorites]
FLOATUS
posted by kirkaracha at 10:23 AM on August 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 10:23 AM on August 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
Mod note: A few deleted, please refer to previous dozens of threads for discussion of sanders/warren/etc in campaign 2020, age, etc.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 10:26 AM on August 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 10:26 AM on August 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
FLATUS
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:29 AM on August 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:29 AM on August 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
40-50 inches of rain in one storm. I can't comprehend that. That's 4 times our yearly rainfall. It will be interesting to see how FEMA handles things when the waters recede, because that's going to be the true test.
posted by azpenguin at 10:42 AM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by azpenguin at 10:42 AM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
FLAUTAS?
posted by ArgentCorvid at 10:51 AM on August 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by ArgentCorvid at 10:51 AM on August 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
BLOATUS.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 10:54 AM on August 29, 2017
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 10:54 AM on August 29, 2017
Let's call the whole thing off.
posted by mazola at 10:55 AM on August 29, 2017 [38 favorites]
posted by mazola at 10:55 AM on August 29, 2017 [38 favorites]
ICE to destroy records of immigrant abuse--ACLU
posted by angrycat at 10:56 AM on August 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 10:56 AM on August 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
> "Antifa", which is really basically "the people from any given activist community who get into scuffles when the need seems to arise", aren't a mysterious secret group. If you hang around activist circles, leftist bookstores, universities, the scruffier kind of coffee house, younger queer communities, etc, you are meeting people who at least loosely fit the definition of "antifa".
My own definition is that if you're not antifa, you're profa.
posted by farlukar at 10:58 AM on August 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
My own definition is that if you're not antifa, you're profa.
posted by farlukar at 10:58 AM on August 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
props to frowner for explaining this stuff bc i've been reading these threads and getting increasingly dismayed by what seems like people soaking in the "omg, violence, both sides, antifa, false flag" stuff i assume the news must be talking about because i haven't seen these talking points before? and it's been unnerving
posted by nixon's meatloaf at 11:00 AM on August 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by nixon's meatloaf at 11:00 AM on August 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
I've met left wing people with all kinds of flaws - and of course I have all kinds of flaws myself - but terrorizing and hurting people because you enjoy seeing them terrorized and hurt isn't one of them
While this strikes me as true now, in this time and place, I think it's worth pointing out this -- ahem -- has not always been the case in other times and in other places. There's nothing about leftist ideology itself that inoculates against sadism. I think right now it's more a question of cultural values attracting people with similar values, but that can change in a heartbeat.
In other words, movements that explicitly endorse hurting people (even Nazis) will inevitably attract people who want to hurt people and want a justification for doing so. Those are the bad apples that look for any reason to find targets.
And I'm not, like, against Nazi punching. Temperamentally I'm all for it (unfortunately), and practically...I mean, shit, marginalized populations need to defend themselves, and people who aren't marginalized but also aren't completely terrible should help defend them.
I suspect that that's a tension that can't be resolved. But I hope those of us on the left don't let down our guard because we think we're inherently immune or resistant to evil. There will be shitty people.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:02 AM on August 29, 2017 [24 favorites]
While this strikes me as true now, in this time and place, I think it's worth pointing out this -- ahem -- has not always been the case in other times and in other places. There's nothing about leftist ideology itself that inoculates against sadism. I think right now it's more a question of cultural values attracting people with similar values, but that can change in a heartbeat.
In other words, movements that explicitly endorse hurting people (even Nazis) will inevitably attract people who want to hurt people and want a justification for doing so. Those are the bad apples that look for any reason to find targets.
And I'm not, like, against Nazi punching. Temperamentally I'm all for it (unfortunately), and practically...I mean, shit, marginalized populations need to defend themselves, and people who aren't marginalized but also aren't completely terrible should help defend them.
I suspect that that's a tension that can't be resolved. But I hope those of us on the left don't let down our guard because we think we're inherently immune or resistant to evil. There will be shitty people.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:02 AM on August 29, 2017 [24 favorites]
"omg, violence, both sides, antifa, false flag" stuff i assume the news must be talking about because i haven't seen these talking points before?
the news and also russian robots
posted by generalist at 11:13 AM on August 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
the news and also russian robots
posted by generalist at 11:13 AM on August 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
i would entreat people who don't have direct experience in and among the groups we're talking about to maybe step back from intellectualizing in a high level and vague sense about whether the left can ever become violent or whatever when we talk about antifa stuff because i feel like it sucks the air out of the conversation, and it's extremely helpful right now to actually talk about what is going on in the streets, what seems to be working, what doesn't, and the actual, real, material difference between right-oriented street shit and left-oriented street shit in this country at this time
posted by nixon's meatloaf at 11:14 AM on August 29, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by nixon's meatloaf at 11:14 AM on August 29, 2017 [29 favorites]
An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge
It's a massive tangent, but you just reminded me that a few years back I was settling in to watch a movie on (I think) the Horror Channel. The synopsis was something about urban explorers or something who get into a terrible situation--the details are kind of fuzzy all this time later.
The thing that is still very clear in my head, though, and the reason I turned off the thing after five minutes, is that one of the first shots of the movie was their car pulling up and parking. Prominently displayed on the license plate frame: OWL CREEK.
I don't think the production company was actually called LULZ WE R SO CLEVAR PICTURES, but it wouldn't have surprised me.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 11:14 AM on August 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
It's a massive tangent, but you just reminded me that a few years back I was settling in to watch a movie on (I think) the Horror Channel. The synopsis was something about urban explorers or something who get into a terrible situation--the details are kind of fuzzy all this time later.
The thing that is still very clear in my head, though, and the reason I turned off the thing after five minutes, is that one of the first shots of the movie was their car pulling up and parking. Prominently displayed on the license plate frame: OWL CREEK.
I don't think the production company was actually called LULZ WE R SO CLEVAR PICTURES, but it wouldn't have surprised me.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 11:14 AM on August 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
I've always considered being anti-fascist one of those fundamental American values you all treasure so much. Fighting tyranny is one of your foundational principles. It's like the default starting position, and people unfortunately drift away from it. It's grim times when you have to opt-in.
posted by adept256 at 11:15 AM on August 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by adept256 at 11:15 AM on August 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
From TPM:
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 11:19 AM on August 29, 2017 [109 favorites]
“So, governor, again, thank very much. And we won’t say congratulations. We don’t want to do that. We don’t want to congratulate,” Trump said.You can just tell that he was told not to tell anyone "Congratulations" at some point today.
“We’ll congratulate each other when it’s all finished, but you have been terrific,” he added, patting Abbott’s hand. “And you’ve been my friend, too.”
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 11:19 AM on August 29, 2017 [109 favorites]
I think people who expect Trump to resign are whistling past the graveyard.
Trump will not quit.
It'd be nice if he would, but he won't. I think not only is he enjoying being President, even if some parts are disagreeable, but I also think that however stupid and brain rotted he is he also knows quitting would open him up not merely to criminal prosecution but (more important to him) ridicule and the belief that he wasn't up to the job.
Also, and possibly more important, there are a lot of people who can influence him who do want him to stay on. All of his advisers, and I think the Party operatives too.
I think the movers and shakers in the Republican Party think that having Trump quit would be worse for the Party than having him stay. It's true that he's not merely dumb as a bag of hammers but senile to boot, it's true that he's divisive, racist, and bigoted, it's true that he has all the negatives he has.
That's what they are counting on. They're hoping to use Trump as a scapegoat **AND** not piss off his base.
Right now around 50% of Republican voters are in Trump's cult of personality. Losing those voters means the death of the Republican Party.
But the 50% who aren't in Trump's cult of personality are, even though they're Republicans, feeling disturbed and nervous about Trump. Losing those voters also means the death of the Republican Party.
If there's event the tiniest, faintest, **HINT** that the Party drove Trump out of office his cultists will go berserk and, at the very least, never vote Republican again. Trump leaving office before Jan 20 2021, will set off his cultists. Among other things, you know perfectly well that Trump can't ever take responsibility for things, and he'll blame his departure on the Republican Party.
So they have to keep him to the end of his term.
And, in the meantime, they can also (carefully) try to spin things so that all Republican failures are Trump's fault. That won't please his cultists, but as long as the accusations are made by third parties and the actual Republican Party leadership stays insulated (or even mildly condemns it) then they probably think they can get away with it.
Republican Party couldn't repeal Obamacare? Damn shame Trump fucked that up.
Tax cuts didn't work out so well? Unfortunately, Trump's blunders kept the Party from using its majority.
Trade deals fucked? We never liked him much anyway, and that's entirely Donald Trump's fault. We Republicans are all about trade deals!
Republicans are racist? How dare you say that! It's only Trump!
Etc.
The Party leadership is hoping Trump can soak up all the bad feeling directed at the general Republican failure to exercise power. He's a literal scapegoat: all their sins are put on him and when he is driven from the camp their sins will be taken away.
I'm pretty sure the Republican Party leadership is hoping desperately that he will stick around until 2020 and then lose. His loss will be the perfect excuse to ditch him, they're hoping they can use it as a good excuse to take power back from the Trump Cultists and teabaggers and return it to the money Republicans. They'll toss in some gentle scolding to the base, gentle enough they hope to keep most of them voting but harsh enough to keep them from messing up and electing a Trump again.
To the Republican leadership the ideal situation would be a Republican majority in at least one house of Congress, and a Democratic President. That'd let them get back to obstructing things and force the Democrats to take the heat for the post-Trump catastrophe.
So no, I don't think Trump will leave the White House until Jan 21, 2021. Wishful thinking to the contrary is just a waste of time.
posted by sotonohito at 11:19 AM on August 29, 2017 [39 favorites]
Trump will not quit.
It'd be nice if he would, but he won't. I think not only is he enjoying being President, even if some parts are disagreeable, but I also think that however stupid and brain rotted he is he also knows quitting would open him up not merely to criminal prosecution but (more important to him) ridicule and the belief that he wasn't up to the job.
Also, and possibly more important, there are a lot of people who can influence him who do want him to stay on. All of his advisers, and I think the Party operatives too.
I think the movers and shakers in the Republican Party think that having Trump quit would be worse for the Party than having him stay. It's true that he's not merely dumb as a bag of hammers but senile to boot, it's true that he's divisive, racist, and bigoted, it's true that he has all the negatives he has.
That's what they are counting on. They're hoping to use Trump as a scapegoat **AND** not piss off his base.
Right now around 50% of Republican voters are in Trump's cult of personality. Losing those voters means the death of the Republican Party.
But the 50% who aren't in Trump's cult of personality are, even though they're Republicans, feeling disturbed and nervous about Trump. Losing those voters also means the death of the Republican Party.
If there's event the tiniest, faintest, **HINT** that the Party drove Trump out of office his cultists will go berserk and, at the very least, never vote Republican again. Trump leaving office before Jan 20 2021, will set off his cultists. Among other things, you know perfectly well that Trump can't ever take responsibility for things, and he'll blame his departure on the Republican Party.
So they have to keep him to the end of his term.
And, in the meantime, they can also (carefully) try to spin things so that all Republican failures are Trump's fault. That won't please his cultists, but as long as the accusations are made by third parties and the actual Republican Party leadership stays insulated (or even mildly condemns it) then they probably think they can get away with it.
Republican Party couldn't repeal Obamacare? Damn shame Trump fucked that up.
Tax cuts didn't work out so well? Unfortunately, Trump's blunders kept the Party from using its majority.
Trade deals fucked? We never liked him much anyway, and that's entirely Donald Trump's fault. We Republicans are all about trade deals!
Republicans are racist? How dare you say that! It's only Trump!
Etc.
The Party leadership is hoping Trump can soak up all the bad feeling directed at the general Republican failure to exercise power. He's a literal scapegoat: all their sins are put on him and when he is driven from the camp their sins will be taken away.
I'm pretty sure the Republican Party leadership is hoping desperately that he will stick around until 2020 and then lose. His loss will be the perfect excuse to ditch him, they're hoping they can use it as a good excuse to take power back from the Trump Cultists and teabaggers and return it to the money Republicans. They'll toss in some gentle scolding to the base, gentle enough they hope to keep most of them voting but harsh enough to keep them from messing up and electing a Trump again.
To the Republican leadership the ideal situation would be a Republican majority in at least one house of Congress, and a Democratic President. That'd let them get back to obstructing things and force the Democrats to take the heat for the post-Trump catastrophe.
So no, I don't think Trump will leave the White House until Jan 21, 2021. Wishful thinking to the contrary is just a waste of time.
posted by sotonohito at 11:19 AM on August 29, 2017 [39 favorites]
There is a radio show in Salt Lake City, called Radio From Hell, it is the morning show. They used to have, maybe still do have, a segment called, "We Seen It." I have to say I just seen it. What did I see? I saw the bald back of Donald Trumps shiny head, on a video from Huffpo, in which he boards AF 1, on the way to Texas.
posted by Oyéah at 11:26 AM on August 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 11:26 AM on August 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
@AClaudeCase
I was the judicial clerk for the judge in the original Apraio trial. I have some thoughts on the pardon. (1/15)
- (I will not be revealing any conversations with the judge about the substance of the case because duh). (2/15)
- Judge Snow was appointed by George W. Bush. He quoted Scalia favorably. He had a Romney Institute blotter on his desk. (3/15)
- Arpaio now calls him “liberal” – this is flatly false. He is ideologically conservative and deeply devoted to the rule of law. (4/15)
- He took pains to ensure that the trial was procedurally fair – crediting unsupported statements by Arpaio deputies. (5/15) [screenshot of decision]
- Arpaio’s office had deleted thousands of requested emails (yes!), Snow issued only mild sanctions in response. (6/15) [screenshot of decision]
- When a minor issue came up that could have merited recusal, he held a hearing – Arpaio’s attorneys asked him not to recuse. (7/15) [screenshot of requests]
- Judge Snow’s order was upheld on appeal before trial by a Nixon appointee, who singled him out for praise in the opinion. (8/15) [screenshot of decision]
- Many of the deleted emails were recovered; they contained racist jokes about “Mexifornia,” “Mexican Yoga” and “Mexican Engineering.” (9/15) [screenshots of emails]
- Snow’s final 142-page order barely referenced the inflammatory stuff – order bars enforcing federal law and stopping bc of race. (10/15) [screenshot of order]
- That order is the one that Arpaio flouted. (11/15)
- Arpaio sent investigators after the judge’s wife and constantly insults him publicly. (12/15) AZ Central: Arpaio: PI hired to investigate judge's wife
- Arpaio kept a paper file in which he printed fan mail favoring racial profiling and attacking a different judge (13/15) [screenshot of decision]
- Judge Snow has never responded to these personal attacks – he is far too dignified to do so. (14/15)
- So when you hear Arpaio and Trump on the judge, remember he is a classic Republican judge and a deeply honorable man. (15/15)
posted by chris24 at 11:34 AM on August 29, 2017 [142 favorites]
I was the judicial clerk for the judge in the original Apraio trial. I have some thoughts on the pardon. (1/15)
- (I will not be revealing any conversations with the judge about the substance of the case because duh). (2/15)
- Judge Snow was appointed by George W. Bush. He quoted Scalia favorably. He had a Romney Institute blotter on his desk. (3/15)
- Arpaio now calls him “liberal” – this is flatly false. He is ideologically conservative and deeply devoted to the rule of law. (4/15)
- He took pains to ensure that the trial was procedurally fair – crediting unsupported statements by Arpaio deputies. (5/15) [screenshot of decision]
- Arpaio’s office had deleted thousands of requested emails (yes!), Snow issued only mild sanctions in response. (6/15) [screenshot of decision]
- When a minor issue came up that could have merited recusal, he held a hearing – Arpaio’s attorneys asked him not to recuse. (7/15) [screenshot of requests]
- Judge Snow’s order was upheld on appeal before trial by a Nixon appointee, who singled him out for praise in the opinion. (8/15) [screenshot of decision]
- Many of the deleted emails were recovered; they contained racist jokes about “Mexifornia,” “Mexican Yoga” and “Mexican Engineering.” (9/15) [screenshots of emails]
- Snow’s final 142-page order barely referenced the inflammatory stuff – order bars enforcing federal law and stopping bc of race. (10/15) [screenshot of order]
- That order is the one that Arpaio flouted. (11/15)
- Arpaio sent investigators after the judge’s wife and constantly insults him publicly. (12/15) AZ Central: Arpaio: PI hired to investigate judge's wife
- Arpaio kept a paper file in which he printed fan mail favoring racial profiling and attacking a different judge (13/15) [screenshot of decision]
- Judge Snow has never responded to these personal attacks – he is far too dignified to do so. (14/15)
- So when you hear Arpaio and Trump on the judge, remember he is a classic Republican judge and a deeply honorable man. (15/15)
posted by chris24 at 11:34 AM on August 29, 2017 [142 favorites]
The NYT can go fuck itself for this cutesy bullshit too.
posted by Artw at 11:39 AM on August 29, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by Artw at 11:39 AM on August 29, 2017 [30 favorites]
I mean. There's a long history of one side doing it. That's kind of important context.
You're absolutely right. I still don't accept any "false flag" conspiracy - god knows we have people on our side who are itching to inflict violence, but I let my frustration get the better of me.
- Guy Sheepish
posted by Guy Smiley at 11:40 AM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
You're absolutely right. I still don't accept any "false flag" conspiracy - god knows we have people on our side who are itching to inflict violence, but I let my frustration get the better of me.
- Guy Sheepish
posted by Guy Smiley at 11:40 AM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Oh, hey, Spicer (remember him?) finally got to meet the pope. I don't have any love for Spicey, but denying him a visit back when they were at the Vatican was just so perfectly petty of Trump that I'm glad it happened eventually.
posted by rewil at 11:40 AM on August 29, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by rewil at 11:40 AM on August 29, 2017 [24 favorites]
Finally got told he's going to hell in person!
posted by Artw at 11:44 AM on August 29, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by Artw at 11:44 AM on August 29, 2017 [20 favorites]
I'm not happy Spicer got something he wanted. He was a willing and eager servant of evil and deserves nothing but misery and derision for the rest of his days. May he never be satisfied and never achieve his goals in anything.
posted by sotonohito at 11:48 AM on August 29, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by sotonohito at 11:48 AM on August 29, 2017 [21 favorites]
I don't know, Illinois has kind-of a Trump-style Republican governor right now who uses a lot of the same tricks and has a lot of the same prejudices, and shovels money to GOP statehouse reps who vote with him to make them untouchable in reelection campaigns. And yet, once the state budget was voted in after a two-year impasse (where a bunch of Republicans flouted the governor and overrode his veto), a number of GOP reps and senators have resigned or announced they won't run for reelection, including the Senate minority leader, because the amount of harm he's doing is making them sick at heart and they cannot in conscience continue to participate. Including some of the party leadership! And yeah, many more remain and plenty of those are true believers or "party before principles" or personal power amassers, but there have been a relatively startling number of resignations.
Sooner or later we're going to see Congresscritters on the GOP side start to resign or refuse to run for re-election. Maybe not many, but 6 or 7 would be a LOT. And sooner or later it's going to start occurring to people (beyond presidential commission appointees and Obama-era holdovers) that the way off this Titanic is to make a noisy, principled resignation rather than going down with the USS Trump, and that the one way to rescue their reputations from the stain of Trump is public repudiation and resignation. Some of them won't. Some of them are true believers, or are counting on wingnut welfare or the alt-right to pay them later. But some of them -- Tillerson is one -- are going to have their future ability to do business and their future reputations permanently impacted by association with this administration. And sooner or later they'll realize that "I stuck around to try to stop it" won't work, and they'll start publicly resigning.
I sort-of wonder if Mike Pence will figure out that he could go down in history not as the failed governor whose political life was over after he was about to lose an easy election in GOP-safe Indiana and failed upwards into the Vice Presidency when nobody else with any integrity would take the position, but as a hero as the Vice President Who Resigned rather than be associated with white supremacy and the destruction of the GOP. He'd be remembered as a flawed man who, under pressure, did the right thing. (And, he could probably make a shit ton of money and influence a lot of legislation about his pet Christian-right issues -- abortion, gay rights -- because of the appearance of integrity that he'd gain, like how we all listened to Giuliani politely even when he was clearly talking out of his ass because he handled 9/11 pretty well.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 11:50 AM on August 29, 2017 [22 favorites]
Sooner or later we're going to see Congresscritters on the GOP side start to resign or refuse to run for re-election. Maybe not many, but 6 or 7 would be a LOT. And sooner or later it's going to start occurring to people (beyond presidential commission appointees and Obama-era holdovers) that the way off this Titanic is to make a noisy, principled resignation rather than going down with the USS Trump, and that the one way to rescue their reputations from the stain of Trump is public repudiation and resignation. Some of them won't. Some of them are true believers, or are counting on wingnut welfare or the alt-right to pay them later. But some of them -- Tillerson is one -- are going to have their future ability to do business and their future reputations permanently impacted by association with this administration. And sooner or later they'll realize that "I stuck around to try to stop it" won't work, and they'll start publicly resigning.
I sort-of wonder if Mike Pence will figure out that he could go down in history not as the failed governor whose political life was over after he was about to lose an easy election in GOP-safe Indiana and failed upwards into the Vice Presidency when nobody else with any integrity would take the position, but as a hero as the Vice President Who Resigned rather than be associated with white supremacy and the destruction of the GOP. He'd be remembered as a flawed man who, under pressure, did the right thing. (And, he could probably make a shit ton of money and influence a lot of legislation about his pet Christian-right issues -- abortion, gay rights -- because of the appearance of integrity that he'd gain, like how we all listened to Giuliani politely even when he was clearly talking out of his ass because he handled 9/11 pretty well.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 11:50 AM on August 29, 2017 [22 favorites]
- Judge Snow’s order was upheld on appeal before trial by a Nixon appointee, who singled him out for praise in the opinion. (8/15) [screenshot of decision]
Can I just say how weird it is to me that we still have Nixon appointees on the bench? Nothing about Nixon per se, but we're on our eighth President since then.
posted by Etrigan at 11:54 AM on August 29, 2017 [15 favorites]
Can I just say how weird it is to me that we still have Nixon appointees on the bench? Nothing about Nixon per se, but we're on our eighth President since then.
posted by Etrigan at 11:54 AM on August 29, 2017 [15 favorites]
Trump won't resign. Unless he figures out how to spin "resigning" into "#WINNING!" he's not going to willingly leave before Jan 2021.
He might choose not to run in 2020 if he figures he'd lose. Republicans might impeach him if he escalates the intraparty fight and starts financing too many primary opponents. And if he does something truly insane Pence might use the 25th. But yeah, probably (like 90% probably) he just sticks around and loses in 2020. And then cries about it FOREVER.
posted by Glibpaxman at 11:54 AM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
He might choose not to run in 2020 if he figures he'd lose. Republicans might impeach him if he escalates the intraparty fight and starts financing too many primary opponents. And if he does something truly insane Pence might use the 25th. But yeah, probably (like 90% probably) he just sticks around and loses in 2020. And then cries about it FOREVER.
posted by Glibpaxman at 11:54 AM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Trump appointees will leave a long, long stink.
posted by Artw at 11:55 AM on August 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Artw at 11:55 AM on August 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
Trump won't resign because he cannot give up the power to pardon. His family and his business might depend on it.
posted by gladly at 11:56 AM on August 29, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by gladly at 11:56 AM on August 29, 2017 [15 favorites]
The NYT's cutesy bullshit is entitled "So President Trump makes spelling mistakes on Twitter. Whoo doesn't?" (No link because fuck them)
Whoo doesn't? Anyone who wants to look competent. Anyone who needs to maintain a professional demeanor when representing their job. Anyone who hasn't had his half-assed, barely mediocre attempts at anything whatsoever sheltered from criticism and slobbered over like some porn star's tumescent wang. It's not the spelling itself, it's just one more example of how the basic rules everyone else has to follow in order to be taken seriously don't apply to 45.
And if I made any spelling or grammar errors above, consider that I'm not communicating as the goddamn President of the United States.
posted by bibliowench at 11:59 AM on August 29, 2017 [97 favorites]
Whoo doesn't? Anyone who wants to look competent. Anyone who needs to maintain a professional demeanor when representing their job. Anyone who hasn't had his half-assed, barely mediocre attempts at anything whatsoever sheltered from criticism and slobbered over like some porn star's tumescent wang. It's not the spelling itself, it's just one more example of how the basic rules everyone else has to follow in order to be taken seriously don't apply to 45.
And if I made any spelling or grammar errors above, consider that I'm not communicating as the goddamn President of the United States.
posted by bibliowench at 11:59 AM on August 29, 2017 [97 favorites]
Hey, we all remember how rife Obama's tweets were with spelling errors.
Pull the other one, NYT.
posted by Gelatin at 12:01 PM on August 29, 2017 [28 favorites]
Pull the other one, NYT.
posted by Gelatin at 12:01 PM on August 29, 2017 [28 favorites]
Lotta presidents might decide that since they were, like, president and all, they would not tweet all the damn time like a reality TV star, spelling aside.
posted by Frowner at 12:02 PM on August 29, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by Frowner at 12:02 PM on August 29, 2017 [17 favorites]
AND THE PRESIDENT SHOULDN'T BE SAYING RANDOM SHIT ON TWITTER FFS.
Ahem. Sorry.
posted by agregoli at 12:02 PM on August 29, 2017 [39 favorites]
Ahem. Sorry.
posted by agregoli at 12:02 PM on August 29, 2017 [39 favorites]
You lucky dogs in the U.K. have received a gift of immeasurable worth: Sky stops broadcasting rightwing US channel Fox News in UK.
Rupert Murdoch has taken the rightwing US channel Fox News off the air in the UK after 15 years.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:06 PM on August 29, 2017 [22 favorites]
His US media group 21st Century Fox said it would withdraw Fox News from Sky in the UK on Tuesday because it no longer regarded the service as commercially viable.
The decision came as Karen Bradley, the culture secretary, is set to return her verdict on whether to ask the competition regulator to launch an investigation into the Murdochs’ adherence to broadcasting standards in the UK as part of an inquiry into Fox’s £11.7bn takeover bid for Sky.
I am so tired.
posted by schmod at 12:08 PM on August 29, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by schmod at 12:08 PM on August 29, 2017 [22 favorites]
WaPo: A new polling low for Trump: Just 16 percent ‘like’ his conduct as president
Polling Donald Trump is one of the most difficult and confusing exercises in modern politics. In Trump, we have a guy who won the presidency by surprisingly beating the polls in key Rust Belt states, of course. We also have a guy who maintains the loyalty of his base despite major flaws that this base readily acknowledges. As I wrote in June 2016, nearly half of Trump supporters — 46 percent — said one or more of the following: He had made a racist comment, was prejudiced and/or was unqualified to be president. Not half of all voters; half of his supporters.posted by chris24 at 12:08 PM on August 29, 2017 [38 favorites]
I wouldn't be the first to argue that those voters stuck by Trump because of rank partisanship, distaste for Hillary Clinton and emphasizing other priorities. But a new poll from the Pew Research Center shows just how conflicted Trump voters are these days about as well as any poll I've seen. And despite all those hot takes about how Trump's penchant for controversy represents some kind of multidimensional chess game, the poll shows the damage continues to be done. Trump's base clearly has reservations about him, and those reservations are causing it to deteriorate slowly — albeit more slowly than people perhaps thought.
Pew asked American adults how they felt about Trump's conduct in office: Whether they “liked” it, had “mixed feelings” or “didn't like it.” It won't surprise you to see about 6 in 10 (58 percent) don't like it; that tracks with the number of Americans who disapprove of Trump overall.
The other two pieces of the pie are where things get interesting. According to Pew, another 25 percent of American adults say they have “mixed feelings,” and just 16 percent “like” it. Only about 1 in 6 voters say they like the way Trump has conducted himself as president. Even among Republicans and GOP-leaning voters, just 34 percent “like” Trump's conduct. About 1 in 5 (19 percent) say they don't like it, and a plurality of 46 percent say they have “mixed feelings.”
The results hark back to a July Washington Post/ABC News poll, in which 70 percent of Americans described Trump's behavior as “unpresidential” and just 24 percent said it was “fitting and proper” for a president. But in that poll, a majority of Republicans — 54 percent — still said Trump's behavior was “fitting and proper.”
So the old poll showed 24 percent of adults signed off on Trump's conduct, and the new one puts that number at 16 percent. Part of that difference undoubtedly owes to how the question was asked, with The Post-ABC poll initially supplying two options and the Pew poll giving three. (Poll respondents are often tempted to take a more middle-ground position when given three options.) But both show basically the same thing: A huge amount of ambivalence about Trump's behavior, even among his base.
sotonohito, you make good points but there is one other factor to weigh, which is that Money Talks. A lot depends on how deep the American financial rabbit hole ends up going. If the US remains in a state of relative prosperity, i.e. billionaires remain billionaires, Trump as Useful Idiot remains Plan A. But if Trump fucks the dog on the debt ceiling, let's say, or pulls America into a military conflict that is pointless by even American standards, or otherwise acts thoughtlessly and causes the actual big monetary players to feel the hit, they will tell their Congressional and governor puppets the old action movie cliche; don't tell me that they're gonna kill you if you disobey them, because I'LL do it if you cross me and I'm right here right now.
Constituents didn't move Dean Heller on health care. Steve Wynn did.
posted by delfin at 12:09 PM on August 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
Constituents didn't move Dean Heller on health care. Steve Wynn did.
posted by delfin at 12:09 PM on August 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
> The NYT's cutesy bullshit is entitled "So President Trump makes spelling mistakes on Twitter. Whoo doesn't?" (No link because fuck them)
Whoo doesn't? Anyone who wants to look competent.
Yeah, this. My wife is a reporter for the local paper. Her role is low-profile enough that she's not required to have a Twitter account, which is very fine by her because we know what happens to women journalists (and women generally) on Twitter. But if she were required to tweet for her job, I can assure you she'd agonize over every word and punctuation mark, because these days, people are probably likelier to read reporters' tweets than they are to read the content of their stories.
Of course, the limitations of Twitter as a medium have led some folks to relax their expectations for grammar and spelling -- it's not uncommon to see media figures using "textspeak" and going light on punctuation to save precious characters -- but simply being unable to spell (or too lazy to use spellcheck) is a sign of someone who doesn't take pride in their work. Which will definitely get you looking for a new job in the highly competitive field of journalism, but is somehow considered an asset for the President of the United States (seriously, Farhad Manjoo? A "sheen of authenticity???" FOH with that shit, dude.)
As is usually the case with this sort of Trump apologia, just try to imagine the media reaction to Obama if he were unable to get through 140 characters without a spelling error.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:32 PM on August 29, 2017 [30 favorites]
Whoo doesn't? Anyone who wants to look competent.
Yeah, this. My wife is a reporter for the local paper. Her role is low-profile enough that she's not required to have a Twitter account, which is very fine by her because we know what happens to women journalists (and women generally) on Twitter. But if she were required to tweet for her job, I can assure you she'd agonize over every word and punctuation mark, because these days, people are probably likelier to read reporters' tweets than they are to read the content of their stories.
Of course, the limitations of Twitter as a medium have led some folks to relax their expectations for grammar and spelling -- it's not uncommon to see media figures using "textspeak" and going light on punctuation to save precious characters -- but simply being unable to spell (or too lazy to use spellcheck) is a sign of someone who doesn't take pride in their work. Which will definitely get you looking for a new job in the highly competitive field of journalism, but is somehow considered an asset for the President of the United States (seriously, Farhad Manjoo? A "sheen of authenticity???" FOH with that shit, dude.)
As is usually the case with this sort of Trump apologia, just try to imagine the media reaction to Obama if he were unable to get through 140 characters without a spelling error.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:32 PM on August 29, 2017 [30 favorites]
FLAUTAS?
FLOUTUS, unfortunately
I saw a couple of little girls in Houston on the flooding coverage. They were wearing FLOATIES. I hope they end up OK.
posted by Guy Smiley at 12:34 PM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
FLOUTUS, unfortunately
I saw a couple of little girls in Houston on the flooding coverage. They were wearing FLOATIES. I hope they end up OK.
posted by Guy Smiley at 12:34 PM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
I dunno, ever synce Lyz Spayd left the NYT has gone to hell.
posted by petebest at 12:36 PM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by petebest at 12:36 PM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Rupert Murdoch has taken the rightwing US channel Fox News off the air in the UK after 15 years.
Probably because no-one even knew it was on the air or would watch it if they did.
posted by walrus at 12:47 PM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Probably because no-one even knew it was on the air or would watch it if they did.
posted by walrus at 12:47 PM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
> I dunno, ever synce Lyz Spayd left the NYT has gone to hell.
You misspelled Margaret Sullivan, which tells me you're an authentic, no-nonsense truth-teller.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:49 PM on August 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
You misspelled Margaret Sullivan, which tells me you're an authentic, no-nonsense truth-teller.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:49 PM on August 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
It's not a campaign rally or a photo-op, it's a "real team":
As he exited the firehouse, Mr. Trump noticed a crowd of about 1,000 people, some of them cheering. He grabbed a lone star Texas flag and shouted back to the crowd, seeming to forget, for the moment, that he was at the scene of a disaster and not one of his rallies. “What a crowd!” he said. “What a turnout!”posted by peeedro at 12:52 PM on August 29, 2017 [48 favorites]
azpenguin: "40-50 inches of rain in one storm. I can't comprehend that. That's 4 times our yearly rainfall. It will be interesting to see how FEMA handles things when the waters recede, because that's going to be the true test."
That's five years of precipitation here (about a third of it snow). I think I lack the capacity to really grok this sort of rain fall in the same way someone raised someplace where it never drops below 10 degrees and whose never seen snow can't really understand snow.
posted by Mitheral at 12:54 PM on August 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
Televangelist Jim Bakker: Christians will start a civil war if Trump is impeached
posted by xcasex at 12:55 PM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by xcasex at 12:55 PM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Why won't moderate Christians denounce these radical clerics?
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:56 PM on August 29, 2017 [219 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:56 PM on August 29, 2017 [219 favorites]
Why won't moderate Christians denounce these radical clerics?
*waves hand limply*
*returns to reading imprecatory psalms*
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:06 PM on August 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
*waves hand limply*
*returns to reading imprecatory psalms*
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:06 PM on August 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
Good-ish news: Chicago Police Officer Convicted Of Unreasonable Force In Shooting (NPR, Aug. 28, 2017)
posted by filthy light thief at 1:09 PM on August 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
In an extremely rare verdict, a federal jury in Chicago on Monday convicted a city police officer of violating civil rights by using excessive force in a Dec. 22, 2013, shooting that wounded two teenagers.Heavily outweighed by the bad: Trump Administration Lifts Limits On Military Hardware For Police (NPR, Aug. 28, 2017)
The Trump administration is lifting limits on the transfer of some surplus military hardware, including grenade launchers, bayonets and large-caliber weapons, to police departments.The war against teens speeding in vans must be countered with more force, not less! Reckless driving by minorities is a serious matter! *sobs*
Attorney General Jeff Sessions made the announcement in a speech on Monday to the Fraternal Order of Police conference in Nashville, Tenn. He said President Trump will issue an executive order that would restore in full a program that provides the military gear to local law enforcement.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:09 PM on August 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
As he exited the firehouse, Mr. Trump noticed a crowd of about 1,000 people, some of them cheering. He grabbed a lone star Texas flag and shouted back to the crowd, seeming to forget, for the moment, that he was at the scene of a disaster and not one of his rallies. “What a crowd!” he said. “What a turnout!”
I expected his damaged ego wouldn't let him to tour a disaster area without making it all about him, but it's kind of awesome how much he also makes it utterly implausible to explain away otherwise.
posted by Gelatin at 1:09 PM on August 29, 2017 [29 favorites]
*waves hand limply*
*returns to reading imprecatory psalms*
Yes, but why won't moderate Christians denounce these radical clerics?
(rinse, repeat)
posted by Artw at 1:10 PM on August 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
*returns to reading imprecatory psalms*
Yes, but why won't moderate Christians denounce these radical clerics?
(rinse, repeat)
posted by Artw at 1:10 PM on August 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
Televangelist Jim Bakker: Christians will start a civil war if Trump is impeached
Ahem...Convicted Felon Jim Bakker, thank you.
posted by darkstar at 1:10 PM on August 29, 2017 [33 favorites]
Ahem...Convicted Felon Jim Bakker, thank you.
posted by darkstar at 1:10 PM on August 29, 2017 [33 favorites]
"Felon Bakker Suggests Further Crime Wave"
posted by jaduncan at 1:13 PM on August 29, 2017 [72 favorites]
posted by jaduncan at 1:13 PM on August 29, 2017 [72 favorites]
*There's* Jim Bakker! I wondered why he wasn't in this shit sandwich already, and presumed he was deceased. Yep, everything's just as it should be. Of sorts.
posted by petebest at 1:13 PM on August 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by petebest at 1:13 PM on August 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
Felon Baker encourages religious extremists to attack United States
posted by cmfletcher at 1:15 PM on August 29, 2017 [71 favorites]
posted by cmfletcher at 1:15 PM on August 29, 2017 [71 favorites]
an attorney with the Akin Gump law firm
This whole goddamned thing is akin to Gump
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:16 PM on August 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
This whole goddamned thing is akin to Gump
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:16 PM on August 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
Of course Jim Bakker wants to foment civil unrest -- it's good for business. Article from 2012 but he's still peddling this shit. (I'm not linking to his own site.)
posted by nathan_teske at 1:16 PM on August 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by nathan_teske at 1:16 PM on August 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
I want to know who set this event up for Trump after his hurricane briefing (the one where he boasts about the size of the crowd). He's got a microphone, he's got an assortment of his fans there to cheer for him. Why? Someone had to arrange that.
posted by zachlipton at 1:16 PM on August 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 1:16 PM on August 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
witchen: Speaking publicly about Trump's impeachment, which means they're preparing for it as an eventuality. And as far as I know, their sources aren't this random group of kinda-lefties on Metafilter.
Good point on the first part. As to their sources: Rep. Brad Sherman (D-Calif.) was drafting articles of impeachment with some publicity in June of this year, after Rep. Al Green (D-Texas) called for Trump's impeachment on House floor in May. Unfortunately, it won't likely go far if the Dems start it, but still, the talk of impeachment has been coming from elected reps for months, and some have made the case that he was impeachable the moment he took office.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:17 PM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Good point on the first part. As to their sources: Rep. Brad Sherman (D-Calif.) was drafting articles of impeachment with some publicity in June of this year, after Rep. Al Green (D-Texas) called for Trump's impeachment on House floor in May. Unfortunately, it won't likely go far if the Dems start it, but still, the talk of impeachment has been coming from elected reps for months, and some have made the case that he was impeachable the moment he took office.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:17 PM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
the actual, real, material difference between right-oriented street shit and left-oriented street shit in this country at this time
That is 100% real, but also I find this "lefties don't want to hurt Nazis because they are so pure of soul" both totally inaccurate with regards to the anarchists I spend time with and also bizarrely fetishizing!
posted by corb at 1:20 PM on August 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
That is 100% real, but also I find this "lefties don't want to hurt Nazis because they are so pure of soul" both totally inaccurate with regards to the anarchists I spend time with and also bizarrely fetishizing!
posted by corb at 1:20 PM on August 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
Oh I've walked through the VALLLEEEEEEEEE
posted by petebest at 1:23 PM on August 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by petebest at 1:23 PM on August 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
A bit of uplifting news via dKos:
1. In Britain, failing Fox News pulled off television.
2. White House staff told to lock doors on Gorka (pre-"resignation")
posted by darkstar at 1:23 PM on August 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
1. In Britain, failing Fox News pulled off television.
2. White House staff told to lock doors on Gorka (pre-"resignation")
posted by darkstar at 1:23 PM on August 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
hey Corb are you talking about the "any and all violence committed by the left is a false flag" or Frowner's statement upthread that the tenor of street fighty activity between left and right fighty folks is different? Because I'm with you on the first and not so much with you on the second, but in any case feel like the whole conversation is a little inside baseball for THE POLITICS THREAD. But you know I want to know where your head is at
posted by nixon's meatloaf at 1:26 PM on August 29, 2017
posted by nixon's meatloaf at 1:26 PM on August 29, 2017
Televangelist Jim Bakker: Christians will start a civil war if Trump is impeached
I hope this ass gets raptured back into the pages of the 1987 issue of Mad Magazine he somehow escaped from.
posted by Atom Eyes at 1:30 PM on August 29, 2017 [22 favorites]
I hope this ass gets raptured back into the pages of the 1987 issue of Mad Magazine he somehow escaped from.
posted by Atom Eyes at 1:30 PM on August 29, 2017 [22 favorites]
The Senate Judiciary interview with Glenn Simpson of Fusion GPS (of Steele Dossier fame) was transcribed, and the Committee is going to vote on releasing it. That Sen. Hatch has publicly said he would vote yes is a particularly encouraging sign that they will do so.
posted by zachlipton at 1:31 PM on August 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 1:31 PM on August 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
Ahem...Convicted Felon Jim Bakker, thank you.
Rapist Jim Bakker
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:31 PM on August 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
Rapist Jim Bakker
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:31 PM on August 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
Josh Marshall:
Here is the first question on the White House internship application form: “Why are you committed to supporting President Donald J. Trump’s Administration?”posted by kirkaracha at 1:32 PM on August 29, 2017 [31 favorites]
And the second: “Who is your favorite President, and why?”
And one from Crooks & Liars:
Ari Fleischer (yes, THAT one) slams Triump for lack of empathy for suffering Texans
posted by darkstar at 1:32 PM on August 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
Ari Fleischer (yes, THAT one) slams Triump for lack of empathy for suffering Texans
posted by darkstar at 1:32 PM on August 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
raises potential attorney-client privilege issues that prosecutors tend to try to avoid
This wouldn't be an issue for emails between the attorney and the Trumps/Trump Co./Michael Cohen (assuming it wasn't a joint representation). There's also the Crime-Fraud exception, if Manafort was seeking advice on how to commit or continue a crime or the attorney was a player in the crime (e.g., filing false documents with the govt as part of a money laundering scheme).
posted by melissasaurus at 1:34 PM on August 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
This wouldn't be an issue for emails between the attorney and the Trumps/Trump Co./Michael Cohen (assuming it wasn't a joint representation). There's also the Crime-Fraud exception, if Manafort was seeking advice on how to commit or continue a crime or the attorney was a player in the crime (e.g., filing false documents with the govt as part of a money laundering scheme).
posted by melissasaurus at 1:34 PM on August 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
IOKIYAC
in this case, the C can also stand for Confederates
posted by numaner at 1:40 PM on August 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
in this case, the C can also stand for Confederates
posted by numaner at 1:40 PM on August 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
Much like the rationale behind 'krab' meat, I always liked the token 'Krischen' to refer to not-Christians who want to pass as such. So Felonious Rapist Krischen Jim Bakker is the Fez-approved nomenclature, please.
posted by Fezboy! at 1:43 PM on August 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Fezboy! at 1:43 PM on August 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
*There's* Jim Bakker! I wondered why he wasn't in this shit sandwich already, and presumed he was deceased.
You'll be pleased to know that he's not only alive, but eating well. [YouTube]
posted by Rykey at 1:43 PM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
You'll be pleased to know that he's not only alive, but eating well. [YouTube]
posted by Rykey at 1:43 PM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's OK If Y'All Confederates?
posted by jaduncan at 1:44 PM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by jaduncan at 1:44 PM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
in this case, the C can also stand for Confederates
Also works for Conservative, Criminal, Charlatan, Con-artist, and...a few more.
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:44 PM on August 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
Also works for Conservative, Criminal, Charlatan, Con-artist, and...a few more.
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:44 PM on August 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
We must be near the end of the game, because we're seeing a boss rush. All the garbage people we thought we defeated decades ago are coming back into the limelight. I'm not talking about resurgent terrible ideologies 200 or 2000 years old (although we're seeing plenty of those, of course), but the actual people. Donald Trump. Jim Bakker. Joe Arpaio. John McCain. Newt Gingrich. Hell, there are still genuine Nixonites CReEPing about. Why are they still around? How is it that some of them are even alive? Has science gone too far?
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:47 PM on August 29, 2017 [73 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:47 PM on August 29, 2017 [73 favorites]
Jim Bakker never left. He's selling apocalypse supplies these days. which is weird, because I thought the whole point of the Rapture was to skip that stuff.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:51 PM on August 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:51 PM on August 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
Absolutely.
I didn't know about his new gig. But the image of Jim Bakker, quite to the contrary of hiding his face in shame, shambling back into the limelight and hunched over a literal bucket of his personally branded Doomsday Slop in front of a studio audience, grunting about how yummy it is and how much they desperately need to buy it...I mean...FUCK YOU 2017, is all I can think right now.
posted by darkstar at 1:53 PM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
I didn't know about his new gig. But the image of Jim Bakker, quite to the contrary of hiding his face in shame, shambling back into the limelight and hunched over a literal bucket of his personally branded Doomsday Slop in front of a studio audience, grunting about how yummy it is and how much they desperately need to buy it...I mean...FUCK YOU 2017, is all I can think right now.
posted by darkstar at 1:53 PM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Shane Bauer of Mother Jones provided excellent coverage of the Berkeley protests, then watched with dismay as national media figures tore his reporting to bits and erased all context. He writes about that in What the Media Got Wrong About Last Weekend’s Protests in Berkeley.
posted by zachlipton at 1:53 PM on August 29, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 1:53 PM on August 29, 2017 [28 favorites]
wait, am i supposed to apply for an internship with a pen name and see how much garbage i get in my mail?
i'm tempted.
posted by waitangi at 1:54 PM on August 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
i'm tempted.
posted by waitangi at 1:54 PM on August 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
He's selling apocalypse supplies these days. which is weird, because I thought the whole point of the Rapture was to skip that stuff.
He's being a good Christian and providing for the sinners who will be left behind? [fake]
posted by hanov3r at 1:55 PM on August 29, 2017
He's being a good Christian and providing for the sinners who will be left behind? [fake]
posted by hanov3r at 1:55 PM on August 29, 2017
I mean, I read all those Popular Science mags back in the 70s. Where is the flying car I was promised???
Instead we got Donald Trump leading a new fascist resurgence and, evidently, the obsolescence of shame.
posted by darkstar at 1:55 PM on August 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
Instead we got Donald Trump leading a new fascist resurgence and, evidently, the obsolescence of shame.
posted by darkstar at 1:55 PM on August 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
Some Christians think they need to live through the Tribulation first, so survival gear would come in handy. Presumably.
posted by agregoli at 1:56 PM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by agregoli at 1:56 PM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Metafilter: think they need to live through the Tribulation first, so survival gear would come in handy. Presumably.
posted by Melismata at 1:58 PM on August 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 1:58 PM on August 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Wait. Is Trump the Tribulation?!?
posted by agregoli at 1:59 PM on August 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by agregoli at 1:59 PM on August 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
The Trumple with Tribulations?
posted by TwoWordReview at 2:00 PM on August 29, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by TwoWordReview at 2:00 PM on August 29, 2017 [14 favorites]
The Trumple with Tribulations?
*cue "tin-plated dictator with delusions of godhood" quote*
posted by hanov3r at 2:02 PM on August 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
*cue "tin-plated dictator with delusions of godhood" quote*
posted by hanov3r at 2:02 PM on August 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
Wait. Is Trump the Tribulation?!?
Welp...it's the best explanation I've heard so far for what happened last November.
posted by darkstar at 2:04 PM on August 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
Welp...it's the best explanation I've heard so far for what happened last November.
posted by darkstar at 2:04 PM on August 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
You know how you can tell that Trump isn't the Antichrist? Because the Antichrist only stays in power for 7 years.
posted by Autumnheart at 2:04 PM on August 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Autumnheart at 2:04 PM on August 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
>Following Trump's meeting with first responders in Corpus Christi on Tuesday, Fleischer told Fox News host Molly Line that Trump had not connected to people's suffering.
"I was with President Bush when he went to see the devastation caused by fires in Arizona and tornados in Missouri," Fleischer recalled. "And there was something missing from what President Trump said -- I hope he will say it later today -- but that's the empathy for the people who suffer."
Imma give Fleischer the credit of being an intelligent person and understanding that this simply is not A Possible Thing. Therefore, which one of Das Bushes sent him out to worry Trumplandia? And what's their long-con?
(And speaking of everything old-evil is back, Hi Dubby!)
posted by petebest at 2:07 PM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
"I was with President Bush when he went to see the devastation caused by fires in Arizona and tornados in Missouri," Fleischer recalled. "And there was something missing from what President Trump said -- I hope he will say it later today -- but that's the empathy for the people who suffer."
Imma give Fleischer the credit of being an intelligent person and understanding that this simply is not A Possible Thing. Therefore, which one of Das Bushes sent him out to worry Trumplandia? And what's their long-con?
(And speaking of everything old-evil is back, Hi Dubby!)
posted by petebest at 2:07 PM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Fan-fic thought : I wonder how much damage Trump could do to fascist movements of the 1930's and 40's if he were sent back in time to join them.
posted by ZeusHumms at 2:08 PM on August 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 2:08 PM on August 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
Good-ish news: Chicago Police Officer Convicted Of Unreasonable Force In Shooting (NPR, Aug. 28, 2017)
In an extremely rare verdict, a federal jury in Chicago on Monday convicted a city police officer of violating civil rights by using excessive force in a Dec. 22, 2013, shooting that wounded two teenagers.
In more related good news...the Illinois state AG is going to push for federal oversight of the Chicago PD.
posted by srboisvert at 2:09 PM on August 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
In an extremely rare verdict, a federal jury in Chicago on Monday convicted a city police officer of violating civil rights by using excessive force in a Dec. 22, 2013, shooting that wounded two teenagers.
In more related good news...the Illinois state AG is going to push for federal oversight of the Chicago PD.
posted by srboisvert at 2:09 PM on August 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
Besides, everyone knows you don't stock pre-made watery soups in that size bulk quantity for long-term storage. It's a waste of space, too heavy to move, poor portion-controlled (it starts to go bad once you open it, so you literally have to eat all 80 1-cup servings within a day or two).
It's much better to store pure water and re-hydrate soup as you need it. Better water management, more effective storage, better portion control, easier to handle.
Even as an apocalypse supplier he's terrible.
posted by darkstar at 2:10 PM on August 29, 2017 [20 favorites]
It's much better to store pure water and re-hydrate soup as you need it. Better water management, more effective storage, better portion control, easier to handle.
Even as an apocalypse supplier he's terrible.
posted by darkstar at 2:10 PM on August 29, 2017 [20 favorites]
trump is not the Antichrist.
trump is simply anti-Christ.
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:11 PM on August 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
trump is simply anti-Christ.
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:11 PM on August 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
So the Gorka who just blabbed on TV is gone, but not the one who actually sets government policy. BuzzFeed, John Hudson, The Gorka That Matters Isn’t Leaving The Trump Administration
But the most effective advocate of Gorka’s brand of hardline policies on Islam is still in government: Katharine Gorka, his wife and the coauthor of scores of his policy papers. She's staying on in her role as an adviser to the secretary of homeland security, officials tell BuzzFeed News.posted by zachlipton at 2:13 PM on August 29, 2017 [34 favorites]
Though less high-profile than her husband, who regularly appeared on television to defend the president with his plummy British accent and distinctive half-beard, half-goatee, Katharine arguably has had a bigger impact on US policy.
Unlike Sebastian, whose failure to obtain a permanent security clearance barred him from some policy discussions, Katharine has dived into the weeds, advising top officials at DHS on counter-terror policies, drafting the department’s reports to Congress on terrorism recruitment, and trying to instill her anti-Islamist philosophy throughout the department.
To her supporters, she is the intellectual forebear of President Donald Trump’s promise to call out radical Islam by name and shun political correctness. She is credited with convincing the department to claw back hundreds of thousands of dollars in grants for countering right-wing extremism and prioritizing the role of law enforcement in combating Islamic extremism. Her detractors accuse her of downplaying the threat of white nationalism and alienating Muslim communities who could be partners in US counter-extremism efforts.
Meanwhile, the mayor of Nashville tells the Evangelicals who wrote and signed the hate filled anti-LGBT and anti-woman Nashville Statement to bugger off and stop staining her city with their hate.
posted by sotonohito at 2:18 PM on August 29, 2017 [53 favorites]
posted by sotonohito at 2:18 PM on August 29, 2017 [53 favorites]
CNN: Impeachment Fast Facts,
Updated 2 hours ago.
???
posted by petebest at 2:20 PM on August 29, 2017
Updated 2 hours ago.
???
posted by petebest at 2:20 PM on August 29, 2017
CNN: Impeachment Fast Facts,
Updated 2 hours ago.
???
Ooo did the new constitution finally come out?!
posted by Emmy Rae at 2:23 PM on August 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
Updated 2 hours ago.
???
Ooo did the new constitution finally come out?!
posted by Emmy Rae at 2:23 PM on August 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
I think at least sometimes CNN lies about update recency, or makes very minimal updates, to keep its articles high in services like Google News.
posted by Coventry at 2:23 PM on August 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Coventry at 2:23 PM on August 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
CNN: Impeachment Fast Facts,
Updated 2 hours ago.
Presumably CNN linkbait.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:24 PM on August 29, 2017
Updated 2 hours ago.
Presumably CNN linkbait.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:24 PM on August 29, 2017
GDI CNN KEEP YER POWDER DRY
posted by murphy slaw at 2:25 PM on August 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 2:25 PM on August 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
Wow, thanks for the link, soto! And good for Mayor Berry!
It reminds me of the bigoted Manhattan Declaration back in 2008, which all of my evangelical friends and colleagues jumped on with great relish, and which is why I had to close my Facebook account (in retrospect, by that point long overdue).
posted by darkstar at 2:26 PM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
It reminds me of the bigoted Manhattan Declaration back in 2008, which all of my evangelical friends and colleagues jumped on with great relish, and which is why I had to close my Facebook account (in retrospect, by that point long overdue).
posted by darkstar at 2:26 PM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
via TPM, some pool reporter at the AP has run completely out of fucks:
He stood on a raised platform of some type. Couldn’t tell if it was a step ladder or not. But he was not on a truck. Spoke into a microphone.posted by murphy slaw at 2:32 PM on August 29, 2017 [107 favorites]
“I love you, you are special, we’re here to take care of you. It’s going well.”
“What a crowd, what a turnout.”
Reporters heard no mention of the dead, dying or displaced Texans and no expression of sympathy for them. The message was services are coming and Texans will be OK.
In more related good news...the Illinois state AG is going to push for federal oversight of the Chicago PD.
ordinarily this would be good news but I hear the justice department is run by racist keebler elves now
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:34 PM on August 29, 2017 [15 favorites]
ordinarily this would be good news but I hear the justice department is run by racist keebler elves now
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:34 PM on August 29, 2017 [15 favorites]
Republicans Confuse the Electoral College With ‘the American People’
The Electoral College has turned two of the last five Republican national-vote defeats into victories. The Republican Party has developed a very convoluted way of suppressing this strange reality. The larger part of their response consists of constant implicit or explicit equations of the election result with the will of the voting public. So frequently do Republican partisans depict their candidate as the conscious choice of the majority that they themselves forget the actual circumstances of his election.
The second, much smaller element involves justifying the Electoral College as a necessary brake against majority rule. On the rare occasions when the merits of the Electoral College do arise, Republicans will explain that the electoral vote system is the perfect expression of the Founders’ divine will, and changing to a national-vote system would create all manner of evils. Then, when they have satisfied their qualms about the creaky presidential voting apparatus, they revert to talking about the election as if it really was a national popular vote.
Republicans hate democracy. It's absolutely inarguable.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:38 PM on August 29, 2017 [71 favorites]
The Electoral College has turned two of the last five Republican national-vote defeats into victories. The Republican Party has developed a very convoluted way of suppressing this strange reality. The larger part of their response consists of constant implicit or explicit equations of the election result with the will of the voting public. So frequently do Republican partisans depict their candidate as the conscious choice of the majority that they themselves forget the actual circumstances of his election.
The second, much smaller element involves justifying the Electoral College as a necessary brake against majority rule. On the rare occasions when the merits of the Electoral College do arise, Republicans will explain that the electoral vote system is the perfect expression of the Founders’ divine will, and changing to a national-vote system would create all manner of evils. Then, when they have satisfied their qualms about the creaky presidential voting apparatus, they revert to talking about the election as if it really was a national popular vote.
Republicans hate democracy. It's absolutely inarguable.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:38 PM on August 29, 2017 [71 favorites]
ordinarily this would be good news but I hear the justice department is run by racist keebler elves now
Lisa Madigan's in charge of this one, not J. Beauregard.
posted by theodolite at 2:40 PM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Lisa Madigan's in charge of this one, not J. Beauregard.
posted by theodolite at 2:40 PM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
In more related good news...the Illinois state AG is going to push for federal oversight of the Chicago PD.
ordinarily this would be good news but I hear the justice department is run by racist keebler elves now
My first thought was this cop will be getting a Presidential pardon at the next Trump rally.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:40 PM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
ordinarily this would be good news but I hear the justice department is run by racist keebler elves now
My first thought was this cop will be getting a Presidential pardon at the next Trump rally.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:40 PM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Uhh. Can we openly say this dude's an active disinformation agent now?
CNN: Rep. Rohrabacher says 'rendezvous' being set up with Trump to relay info from WikiLeaks' Assange on DNC hack
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:40 PM on August 29, 2017 [17 favorites]
CNN: Rep. Rohrabacher says 'rendezvous' being set up with Trump to relay info from WikiLeaks' Assange on DNC hack
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:40 PM on August 29, 2017 [17 favorites]
“I love you, you are special, we’re here to take care of you. It’s going well.”
The only thing worse than trump trying to talk tough is when he tries to talk 'nice'.
It's so creepy and inhuman.
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:42 PM on August 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
The only thing worse than trump trying to talk tough is when he tries to talk 'nice'.
It's so creepy and inhuman.
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:42 PM on August 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
Lisa Madigan's in charge of this one
It was a federal civil rights prosecution, not state. Trump/Sessions could pardon, and this is the type of case you won't see again under Sessions as he squashes future civil rights enforcement actions and slowly replaces career civil rights prosecutors with Trumpist brownshirt loyalists.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:43 PM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
It was a federal civil rights prosecution, not state. Trump/Sessions could pardon, and this is the type of case you won't see again under Sessions as he squashes future civil rights enforcement actions and slowly replaces career civil rights prosecutors with Trumpist brownshirt loyalists.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:43 PM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
The White House did not return a request for comment on Rohrabacher's comments. Rohrabacher hung up on a CNN reporter who inquired about his comments.
Sweet.
posted by petebest at 2:44 PM on August 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
Sweet.
posted by petebest at 2:44 PM on August 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
Oh. Hmm. Is, uh, state oversight of a city police department a thing?
posted by theodolite at 2:46 PM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by theodolite at 2:46 PM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
“I love you, you are special, we’re here to take care of you. It’s going well.”
What is "The only words Trump hears when other people speak," Alex?
posted by Rykey at 2:51 PM on August 29, 2017 [36 favorites]
What is "The only words Trump hears when other people speak," Alex?
posted by Rykey at 2:51 PM on August 29, 2017 [36 favorites]
Oh. Hmm. Is, uh, state oversight of a city police department a thing?
Missouri controlled the St. Louis Police Department for 152 years, starting during the Civil War and ending in 2013.
posted by brentajones at 2:52 PM on August 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
Missouri controlled the St. Louis Police Department for 152 years, starting during the Civil War and ending in 2013.
posted by brentajones at 2:52 PM on August 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
[Real]
@PatrickSvitek
Trump on #Harvey: "It sounds like such an innocent name. ... But it's not innocent. It's not innocent."
---
And given the efficacy of Trump's Mirror, this is about himself. So yeah, he's guilty.
posted by chris24 at 3:13 PM on August 29, 2017 [20 favorites]
@PatrickSvitek
Trump on #Harvey: "It sounds like such an innocent name. ... But it's not innocent. It's not innocent."
---
And given the efficacy of Trump's Mirror, this is about himself. So yeah, he's guilty.
posted by chris24 at 3:13 PM on August 29, 2017 [20 favorites]
ordinarily this would be good news but I hear the justice department is run by racist keebler elves now
I wish people would stop defaming and profaning keebler elves, which are delicious
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:15 PM on August 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
I wish people would stop defaming and profaning keebler elves, which are delicious
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:15 PM on August 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
keebler elves, which are delicious
What kind of savage eats elves?!
It is just so completely demoralizing to see that the POTUS cannot even handle a sympathy photo op. Like, we get that you can't meet the standard of 90-something Jimmy Carter who probably would actually be tossing some sandbags or engaging in useful physical labor, but to not even blurt out a couple of cliche sentences about the resilience of a city, without fucking that up: he is a complete vacuum.
posted by TwoStride at 3:19 PM on August 29, 2017 [38 favorites]
What kind of savage eats elves?!
It is just so completely demoralizing to see that the POTUS cannot even handle a sympathy photo op. Like, we get that you can't meet the standard of 90-something Jimmy Carter who probably would actually be tossing some sandbags or engaging in useful physical labor, but to not even blurt out a couple of cliche sentences about the resilience of a city, without fucking that up: he is a complete vacuum.
posted by TwoStride at 3:19 PM on August 29, 2017 [38 favorites]
delicious maybe but you don't want them administering civil rights bureacracies
it's like making cookie monster the director of the FDA
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:19 PM on August 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
it's like making cookie monster the director of the FDA
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:19 PM on August 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
Partner at Thomas Coburn and former prosecutor in the US Attorney's office.
@renato_mariotti
THREAD: What do the Manafort subpoenas and Trump Jr. agreement to testify tell us about the state of Mueller's investigation?
2/ Multiple media outlets report that Manafort's spokesman and former attorney have been subpoenaed to testify.
3/ In other news, Trump Jr. agreed to a transcribed interview with a Senate committee.
4/ As a starting point, the issuance of grand jury subpoenas to Manafort's former attorney and his spokesman confirm what was already
5/ evident--that Manafort has significant potential criminal liability and is in Mueller's sights. The execution of a search warrant at
6/ Manafort's home indicated that Mueller had evidence showing there was a good reason to believe a crime had been committed and evidence of
7/ that crime could be found at Manafort's home. Recent subpoenas to PR firms working with Manafort suggest that Manafort still had not
8/ "flipped" and was a focus of Mueller's investigation. In that context, I disagree with @CNN that issuance of a subpoena to the spokesman
9/ was "aggressive." To me, the spokesman is a logical person to interview. There is no spokesman-client privilege so everything Manafort
10/ told the spokesman is fair game. Mueller could be interested in proving that Manafort had knowledge that contradicted disclosures or
11/ or other statements he made publicly. The subpoena to the attorney is more unusual, and typically subpoenas to attorneys are vetted very
12/ carefully and has guidance that requires prosecutors to seek approval before issuing a subpoena to an attorney. The subpoena to
13/ Manafort's former attorney suggests to me that they believe she is a witness to a crime or a subject of the investigation herself.
14/ It also suggests that they already tried to obtain information from her without issuing a subpoena. It would be interesting to know
15/ on what matters she represented Manafort, because that would give the public insight into what Mueller is interested in.
16/ As for Trump Jr., I would advise him to take the Fifth, because lying to the Senate Committee is a crime and his words can be used by
17/ Mueller as evidence against him. There's no question that Mueller's team will scrutinize the transcript of his interview. The only way
18/ I would permit Trump Jr. to sit for the interview, if I were his lawyer, is if I had reviewed every relevant document and communication
19/ and was completely convinced he had no liability. I doubt his lawyer has access to all of those records at this time. It's possible that
20/ the PR downside of taking the Fifth outweighs any legal concerns, or that he's convinced that he would be pardoned in any event.
21/ As I discussed here in @thehill a pardon would mean he couldn't take the Fifth and wouldn't cover state crimes. The Hill: OPINION | Should the president pardon himself and his family?
posted by chris24 at 3:37 PM on August 29, 2017 [24 favorites]
@renato_mariotti
THREAD: What do the Manafort subpoenas and Trump Jr. agreement to testify tell us about the state of Mueller's investigation?
2/ Multiple media outlets report that Manafort's spokesman and former attorney have been subpoenaed to testify.
3/ In other news, Trump Jr. agreed to a transcribed interview with a Senate committee.
4/ As a starting point, the issuance of grand jury subpoenas to Manafort's former attorney and his spokesman confirm what was already
5/ evident--that Manafort has significant potential criminal liability and is in Mueller's sights. The execution of a search warrant at
6/ Manafort's home indicated that Mueller had evidence showing there was a good reason to believe a crime had been committed and evidence of
7/ that crime could be found at Manafort's home. Recent subpoenas to PR firms working with Manafort suggest that Manafort still had not
8/ "flipped" and was a focus of Mueller's investigation. In that context, I disagree with @CNN that issuance of a subpoena to the spokesman
9/ was "aggressive." To me, the spokesman is a logical person to interview. There is no spokesman-client privilege so everything Manafort
10/ told the spokesman is fair game. Mueller could be interested in proving that Manafort had knowledge that contradicted disclosures or
11/ or other statements he made publicly. The subpoena to the attorney is more unusual, and typically subpoenas to attorneys are vetted very
12/ carefully and has guidance that requires prosecutors to seek approval before issuing a subpoena to an attorney. The subpoena to
13/ Manafort's former attorney suggests to me that they believe she is a witness to a crime or a subject of the investigation herself.
14/ It also suggests that they already tried to obtain information from her without issuing a subpoena. It would be interesting to know
15/ on what matters she represented Manafort, because that would give the public insight into what Mueller is interested in.
16/ As for Trump Jr., I would advise him to take the Fifth, because lying to the Senate Committee is a crime and his words can be used by
17/ Mueller as evidence against him. There's no question that Mueller's team will scrutinize the transcript of his interview. The only way
18/ I would permit Trump Jr. to sit for the interview, if I were his lawyer, is if I had reviewed every relevant document and communication
19/ and was completely convinced he had no liability. I doubt his lawyer has access to all of those records at this time. It's possible that
20/ the PR downside of taking the Fifth outweighs any legal concerns, or that he's convinced that he would be pardoned in any event.
21/ As I discussed here in @thehill a pardon would mean he couldn't take the Fifth and wouldn't cover state crimes. The Hill: OPINION | Should the president pardon himself and his family?
posted by chris24 at 3:37 PM on August 29, 2017 [24 favorites]
So this isn't creepy at all. According to a New York Magazine article by Yashar Ali, Kathy Griffin (she of the severed head fame) received an email from CBS board member Arnold Kopelson containing the text of an apology letter ("NOT AN EMAIL") she should write to Trump:
posted by bibliowench at 3:45 PM on August 29, 2017 [73 favorites]
The letter includes phrases like, “Now with my world crumbling around me, I am listening for the first time about the great things you have done and are doing. How stupid I was to follow the lies from the ‘Left.’ It took my terrible mistake to finally see the false news,” and “I do not deserve what I am asking of you. I am begging you to open your heart and forgive me.” Kopelson said that Griffin should “exclusively release the letter to Fox Broadcasting,” adding, “Do not send to the other networks.” “If you don’t do exactly what I’ve written, your career is over,” Kopelson wroteThe full text of the letter is here.
posted by bibliowench at 3:45 PM on August 29, 2017 [73 favorites]
As I discussed here in @thehill a pardon would mean he couldn't take the Fifth and wouldn't cover state crimes.
this is confusing - if he's liable for state crimes, can't he claim the fifth in order not to give testimony that could be used in prosecuting state crimes?
posted by pyramid termite at 3:49 PM on August 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
this is confusing - if he's liable for state crimes, can't he claim the fifth in order not to give testimony that could be used in prosecuting state crimes?
posted by pyramid termite at 3:49 PM on August 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
This year has made me doubt the existence of parody.
posted by bibliowench at 3:50 PM on August 29, 2017 [36 favorites]
posted by bibliowench at 3:50 PM on August 29, 2017 [36 favorites]
"Thank you sir for hearing meh plea."
"I have spent the last hour and a half composing this letter."
This has to be a joke, but then, so is all reality now
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:53 PM on August 29, 2017 [25 favorites]
"I have spent the last hour and a half composing this letter."
This has to be a joke, but then, so is all reality now
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:53 PM on August 29, 2017 [25 favorites]
this is confusing - if he's liable for state crimes, can't he claim the fifth in order not to give testimony that could be used in prosecuting state crimes?
That's a good question and one I hadn't considered.
But more than that... if you have someone willing to abuse the pardon power it doesn't actually matter. You can refuse to testify anyway and, when held in contempt, be pardoned for the contempt. Trump has signalled he's perfectly willing to do this when he, you know, pardoned Arpaio for contempt.
posted by Justinian at 3:55 PM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
That's a good question and one I hadn't considered.
But more than that... if you have someone willing to abuse the pardon power it doesn't actually matter. You can refuse to testify anyway and, when held in contempt, be pardoned for the contempt. Trump has signalled he's perfectly willing to do this when he, you know, pardoned Arpaio for contempt.
posted by Justinian at 3:55 PM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm now disturbed by how much people seem to care about what Kathy Griffin does or doesn't do.
CBS board members, Trumps, NYMag, etc. This is Kathy Griffin the comedian right?
posted by rc3spencer at 3:55 PM on August 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
CBS board members, Trumps, NYMag, etc. This is Kathy Griffin the comedian right?
posted by rc3spencer at 3:55 PM on August 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
I sense a little bit of shade being thrown by the BBC re: UK libel law in this article about Sarah Palin's suit against the NYT
Judge Rakoff said that while an error had been made, Mrs Palin had failed to prove the mistake was made maliciously - a hurdle which public figures must overcome in US defamation law.posted by tivalasvegas at 3:57 PM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
It doesn't make much sense to me that a CBS board member would require exclusive release to Fox. I thought board members had some sort of fiduciary duty to the shareholders of the companies they represent?
posted by nat at 3:57 PM on August 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by nat at 3:57 PM on August 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
Checks to see if the first letter of each sentence reads "EAT SHIT" ...
posted by mbo at 3:58 PM on August 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by mbo at 3:58 PM on August 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
This is Kathy Griffin the comedian right?
Wait, she isn't a vicious mythical lion-eagle? I thought that's why we were so worried about her threats
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:59 PM on August 29, 2017 [15 favorites]
Wait, she isn't a vicious mythical lion-eagle? I thought that's why we were so worried about her threats
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:59 PM on August 29, 2017 [15 favorites]
I'm now disturbed by how much people seem to care about what Kathy Griffin does or doesn't do.
CBS board members, Trumps, NYMag, etc. This is Kathy Griffin the comedian right?
Yes, but she's a woman. She's supposed to wear stilettos and look pretty, not be brash and threaten the God Emperor.
posted by uncleozzy at 3:59 PM on August 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
CBS board members, Trumps, NYMag, etc. This is Kathy Griffin the comedian right?
Yes, but she's a woman. She's supposed to wear stilettos and look pretty, not be brash and threaten the God Emperor.
posted by uncleozzy at 3:59 PM on August 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
Trump’s Moscow Partner Was Apparently Financed by a Russian Bank Under US Sanctions
And Trump signed this deal while campaigning for president.
posted by adamvasco at 4:01 PM on August 29, 2017 [19 favorites]
And Trump signed this deal while campaigning for president.
posted by adamvasco at 4:01 PM on August 29, 2017 [19 favorites]
WSJ has more on the subpoena of Manafort's spokesman.
Jason Maloni was served Monday night with a subpoena seeking all records related to his work for Mr. Manafort since 2010. Mr. Maloni has represented the longtime political consultant only since March, so it wasn’t clear why the subpoena extends back that far.posted by chris24 at 4:01 PM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Mr. Maloni, who is president of his own public relations firm—JadeRoq, based in Bethesda, Md.—was told to turn over the records to prosecutors and to appear soon before a federal grand jury in Washington, the person said.
In a statement, Mr. Maloni said he “would like to get the advice of counsel before commenting publicly” on the matter.
If nothing else, he uses "affect" when he should have used "effect," so he is a horrible person, worthy of scorn, and I am thankful his politics do not align with my own.
posted by bibliowench at 4:04 PM on August 29, 2017 [36 favorites]
posted by bibliowench at 4:04 PM on August 29, 2017 [36 favorites]
this is confusing - if he's liable for state crimes, can't he claim the fifth in order not to give testimony that could be used in prosecuting state crimes?
You cannot compel a witness to give a statement if that statement could be used in other arenas to prosecute the witness. Immunity given by Congress applies to state authorities as well and has been tested by the Supreme Court (Kastigar v. United States).
Pardons would mean they could still take the 5th on state crimes. Congress could still invoke immunity to get around that.
posted by Talez at 4:04 PM on August 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
You cannot compel a witness to give a statement if that statement could be used in other arenas to prosecute the witness. Immunity given by Congress applies to state authorities as well and has been tested by the Supreme Court (Kastigar v. United States).
Pardons would mean they could still take the 5th on state crimes. Congress could still invoke immunity to get around that.
posted by Talez at 4:04 PM on August 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Uhh. Can we openly say this dude's an active disinformation agent now?
CNN: Rep. Rohrabacher says 'rendezvous' being set up with Trump to relay info from WikiLeaks' Assange on DNC hack
Give it to Trump? Why? There are already well-resourced investigatory bodies looking into the various email hacks of last summer (another century ago) that he could give the info to. If he mistrusts those bodies, he could exit his office and walk a few steps to the floor of the House and read the mind boggling details into the record.
What's so magical about giving it to Trump?
posted by notyou at 4:09 PM on August 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
CNN: Rep. Rohrabacher says 'rendezvous' being set up with Trump to relay info from WikiLeaks' Assange on DNC hack
Give it to Trump? Why? There are already well-resourced investigatory bodies looking into the various email hacks of last summer (another century ago) that he could give the info to. If he mistrusts those bodies, he could exit his office and walk a few steps to the floor of the House and read the mind boggling details into the record.
What's so magical about giving it to Trump?
posted by notyou at 4:09 PM on August 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
It's for Russian Eyes Only?
posted by contraption at 4:16 PM on August 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by contraption at 4:16 PM on August 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
It's complete bullshit?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:19 PM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:19 PM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Has Wikileaks no venue by which they could publish this information?
posted by Artw at 4:21 PM on August 29, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by Artw at 4:21 PM on August 29, 2017 [34 favorites]
Give it to Trump? Why? There are already well-resourced investigatory bodies looking into the various email hacks of last summer (another century ago) that he could give the info to. If he mistrusts those bodies, he could exit his office and walk a few steps to the floor of the House and read the mind boggling details into the record.
More to the point, why does he want to set up a special secret "rendezvous?"
It's perfectly reasonable to make sure the president is up to date on any important information about attempts to hack US political parties. But you can just drop it off at the White House, where it will be logged and recorded for posterity but can still be kept secret like much of the government's information.
The skeevy rendezvous is just a confession that there's damaging information he wants to keep secret from Mueller's team, intelligence agencies, historians, etc. It must be incredibly bad if he's willing to say as much publicly.
posted by msalt at 4:34 PM on August 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
More to the point, why does he want to set up a special secret "rendezvous?"
It's perfectly reasonable to make sure the president is up to date on any important information about attempts to hack US political parties. But you can just drop it off at the White House, where it will be logged and recorded for posterity but can still be kept secret like much of the government's information.
The skeevy rendezvous is just a confession that there's damaging information he wants to keep secret from Mueller's team, intelligence agencies, historians, etc. It must be incredibly bad if he's willing to say as much publicly.
posted by msalt at 4:34 PM on August 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
Has Wikileaks no venue by which they could publish this information?Wikileaks is only concerned with forcing radical transparency on others. Their own ^privacy should be sacrosanct, of course.
*Edited to add missed word.
posted by xyzzy at 4:36 PM on August 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm now disturbed by how much people seem to care about what Kathy Griffin does or doesn't do. CBS board members, Trumps, NYMag, etc. This is Kathy Griffin the comedian right?
This is a person who offended the world's most powerful narcissist. Powerful people are willing to be his flying monkeys if it means a shot at more power for themselves.
posted by scalefree at 4:37 PM on August 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
This is a person who offended the world's most powerful narcissist. Powerful people are willing to be his flying monkeys if it means a shot at more power for themselves.
posted by scalefree at 4:37 PM on August 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
Sec. Mattis put out a statement on Trump's ban of trans servicemembers. He'll convene a panel of experts to study all the issues (wait, didn't the military already do that? Why yes, yes it did) to study the issue and determine how to implement the president's direction. In the meantime, "current policy with respect to currently serving members will remain in place," but interim guidance will come later.
posted by zachlipton at 4:37 PM on August 29, 2017 [36 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 4:37 PM on August 29, 2017 [36 favorites]
Ann Coulter is about saying Houston being punished for electing a lesbian mayor is more likely a reason for the floods than climate change.
posted by Talez at 4:39 PM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Talez at 4:39 PM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Do they increase the amount of water vapour the air can hold?
posted by Artw at 4:45 PM on August 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Artw at 4:45 PM on August 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
WASHINGTON (AP) — A grand jury in the U.S. capital has issued indictments for 19 people, including 15 identified as Turkish security officials, for attacking protesters in May 2017.
posted by Chrysostom at 4:45 PM on August 29, 2017 [81 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 4:45 PM on August 29, 2017 [81 favorites]
Ann Coulter is about saying Houston being punished for electing a lesbian mayor is more likely a reason for the floods than climate change.
I wish someone asked Coulter what she did that caused her to be unmarried and childless, the opposite of the Christian ideal she supposedly promotes?
posted by PenDevil at 4:45 PM on August 29, 2017 [23 favorites]
I wish someone asked Coulter what she did that caused her to be unmarried and childless, the opposite of the Christian ideal she supposedly promotes?
posted by PenDevil at 4:45 PM on August 29, 2017 [23 favorites]
I assume she is some kind of Hate Nun.
posted by Artw at 4:47 PM on August 29, 2017 [36 favorites]
posted by Artw at 4:47 PM on August 29, 2017 [36 favorites]
Ah, she's just a troll. Anyway her god is bad at timing since Annise Parker isn't even the mayor of Houston anymore.
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:47 PM on August 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:47 PM on August 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
Washington (CNN) The General Services Administration's Office of Inspector General is now undertaking a formal review of how the agency has handled President Donald Trump's Washington hotel lease.
posted by Chrysostom at 4:49 PM on August 29, 2017 [53 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 4:49 PM on August 29, 2017 [53 favorites]
Ann Coulter is about saying Houston being punished for electing a lesbian mayor is more likely a reason for the floods than climate change.
Katrina was divine punishment for New Orleans allowing gays/Mardi Gras (something like that), remember? In fact just about every natural disaster affecting America in the last fifteen or so years was God's Wrath because abortion, gay marriage, gays in military, etc.
posted by CCBC at 4:55 PM on August 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
Katrina was divine punishment for New Orleans allowing gays/Mardi Gras (something like that), remember? In fact just about every natural disaster affecting America in the last fifteen or so years was God's Wrath because abortion, gay marriage, gays in military, etc.
posted by CCBC at 4:55 PM on August 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
it's like making cookie monster the director of the FDA
If he promises to include a cookie category in a revised USRDA, I will totally support his appointment.
I mean, there's got to be SOME upside to having a generally incompetent federal government. Throw me a bone chocolate chip, here!
posted by darkstar at 5:00 PM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
If he promises to include a cookie category in a revised USRDA, I will totally support his appointment.
I mean, there's got to be SOME upside to having a generally incompetent federal government. Throw me a
posted by darkstar at 5:00 PM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
I thought it was God's wrath for Jim Bakker and the like.
BTW, I worked at Main State in the 80's, and seeing that picture of Jim Baker at the 21st St. entrance made me want to sneak in some night and put up a picture of Jim Bakker.
posted by MtDewd at 5:03 PM on August 29, 2017
BTW, I worked at Main State in the 80's, and seeing that picture of Jim Baker at the 21st St. entrance made me want to sneak in some night and put up a picture of Jim Bakker.
posted by MtDewd at 5:03 PM on August 29, 2017
Pelosi Statement Condemning Antifa Violence in Berkeley
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 5:03 PM on August 29, 2017
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 5:03 PM on August 29, 2017
Very DNC.
posted by Artw at 5:07 PM on August 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 5:07 PM on August 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
> Trump on #Harvey: "It sounds like such an innocent name. ... But it's not innocent. It's not innocent."
Maybe we should call it Hurricane Two-Face?
posted by guiseroom at 5:10 PM on August 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
Maybe we should call it Hurricane Two-Face?
posted by guiseroom at 5:10 PM on August 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
yeah those disasters mostly do seem to happen in the bible belt ...
posted by mbo at 5:10 PM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by mbo at 5:10 PM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
The memo from Mattis is reason for cautious hope on this score, at least. It moves the impression dial back a little farther toward "Maybe he's just there to limit the damage until this asshole is out of office again," but I'm gonna have to see more good moves from him like this before my opinion of him changes.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:23 PM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:23 PM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
It seems to be sailing pretty close to not following orders you don't like, is a concern.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:27 PM on August 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 5:27 PM on August 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
I don't want transgender troops to get kicked out of the military. But I would really like the military to continue to have civilian oversight. Preferably by someone who can identify his own limo upon exiting Air Force One, which sadly does not describe our current president. It's a conundrum.
posted by xyzzy at 5:34 PM on August 29, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 5:34 PM on August 29, 2017 [22 favorites]
It scares me how much I seem to be pinning my hopes on some sort of military/intelligence agency coup.
posted by bibliowench at 5:37 PM on August 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by bibliowench at 5:37 PM on August 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
Per the USA Today article, the directive Trump signed last week only told Mattis to "study the issue and determine how to implement Trump's direction." That gives him considerable leeway to do nothing until a study is complete, and also to sit on the study indefinitely.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 5:42 PM on August 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 5:42 PM on August 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
In the modern German military, not following orders that demean human dignity is part of the deal.
(it's complicated, but there's a good explainer from a German naval guy here.)
This was thought a good idea for... well, I wonder why?
posted by Devonian at 5:45 PM on August 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
(it's complicated, but there's a good explainer from a German naval guy here.)
This was thought a good idea for... well, I wonder why?
posted by Devonian at 5:45 PM on August 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
The actual memo Trump signed gives Mattis a fair bit of discretion when it comes to existing troops, with many parts not required to take effect until March 23, 2018. The memo instructs Mattis to implement Trump's policy "until such time as a sufficient basis exists upon which to conclude that terminating that policy and practice would not have the negative effects discussed above" and then to notify the President if that's the case.
Mattis using that time to convene another expert panel and study the issue, presumably to conclude that such negative effects don't exist (since, again, they flipping did that a couple years ago already), isn't a military coup. It's literally what the memorandum calls for.
The more interesting story to me is how Trump's immediate "please be advised" tweet got slow-walked into "sit on it for a bit and eventually put out a memo that slow walks it another six months."
posted by zachlipton at 5:46 PM on August 29, 2017 [34 favorites]
Mattis using that time to convene another expert panel and study the issue, presumably to conclude that such negative effects don't exist (since, again, they flipping did that a couple years ago already), isn't a military coup. It's literally what the memorandum calls for.
The more interesting story to me is how Trump's immediate "please be advised" tweet got slow-walked into "sit on it for a bit and eventually put out a memo that slow walks it another six months."
posted by zachlipton at 5:46 PM on August 29, 2017 [34 favorites]
Trump on #Harvey: "It sounds like such an innocent name. ... But it's not innocent. It's not innocent." [real]
"I mean, Harvey sounds like a white guy. Not a tricky woman who may or may not be Mexican like Katrina or Rita." [fake]
posted by threeturtles at 5:46 PM on August 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
"I mean, Harvey sounds like a white guy. Not a tricky woman who may or may not be Mexican like Katrina or Rita." [fake]
posted by threeturtles at 5:46 PM on August 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
Oh man, so I've been floooooded with DCCC fundraising emails in the past few days, and I am honestly pretty *pissed*. To provide a bit more context, many thread regulars will likely recall my letter to the DCCC regarding the decision to allow forced-birthers to run under the Democratic banner, which seems to be how I got onto the DCCC mailing list. I have still not received any acknowledgment of my initial complaint, but I'm still good enough to try and hit up for money. They're offering triple and quadrupal matches but the alarmist language isn't helpful. Ugh.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 5:49 PM on August 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 5:49 PM on August 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
"who knew a giant invisible rabbit could do much damage?" [fake]
posted by entropicamericana at 5:50 PM on August 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 5:50 PM on August 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
slow walks it another six months
my inner pollyanna wonders if mattis doesn't know something we don't about the significance of that particular interval
posted by murphy slaw at 5:50 PM on August 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
my inner pollyanna wonders if mattis doesn't know something we don't about the significance of that particular interval
posted by murphy slaw at 5:50 PM on August 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
That gives him considerable leeway to do nothing until a study is complete, and also to sit on the study indefinitely.
It's even better than that. The memo makes reference to the "soon arriving senior civilian leadership of DoD" as the people who will possibly implement this. Those people are not actually arriving - they've been stalled for months as Mattis has asked for Democrats and NeverTrump Republicans, which the White House is refusing to allow.
posted by corb at 5:54 PM on August 29, 2017 [18 favorites]
It's even better than that. The memo makes reference to the "soon arriving senior civilian leadership of DoD" as the people who will possibly implement this. Those people are not actually arriving - they've been stalled for months as Mattis has asked for Democrats and NeverTrump Republicans, which the White House is refusing to allow.
posted by corb at 5:54 PM on August 29, 2017 [18 favorites]
I will sign over my house to anyone who can convince me Trump actually read that memo. He 100% thinks he signed an immediate ban and kick everyone out order, and he's going to be pissed that's not what happened. Score one for the deep state lawyers.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:58 PM on August 29, 2017 [35 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:58 PM on August 29, 2017 [35 favorites]
The good news seems to be that some of the adults are moving to keep Trump from trashing too much of the furniture while we're stuck with him. The bad news is that this undermines the whole civilian rule thing for future non-pathologically narcissistic leaders.
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:02 PM on August 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:02 PM on August 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
I don't want transgender troops to get kicked out of the military. But I would really like the military to continue to have civilian oversight.
Same on both counts. Thing is, nothing in this administration is a good precedent. Nothing at all. Until it is over, there are only degrees of unhappiness and best measures of damage control.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 6:04 PM on August 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
Same on both counts. Thing is, nothing in this administration is a good precedent. Nothing at all. Until it is over, there are only degrees of unhappiness and best measures of damage control.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 6:04 PM on August 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
They're offering triple and quadrupal matches but the alarmist language isn't helpful.
I'm kind of kicking myself for not starting a Tumblr or Twitter feed back after the election to showcase the goddamn ridiculous DCCC emails. They're astonishingly bad, and tonally all over the place. Like a rapid fire WE'RE DOOMED! WE'RE DEAD! WE'RE DONE! TRUMP WINS! OMG RECORD FUNDRAISING! TRUMP LOSES! HERE'S JAMES CARVILLE FOR SOME REASON! And that copy they keep using over and over again "[Dem #1] emailed. [Dem #2] emailed. And now I'm emailing you to (blah blah blehhh whatever)". At least a dozen of those.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:05 PM on August 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
I'm kind of kicking myself for not starting a Tumblr or Twitter feed back after the election to showcase the goddamn ridiculous DCCC emails. They're astonishingly bad, and tonally all over the place. Like a rapid fire WE'RE DOOMED! WE'RE DEAD! WE'RE DONE! TRUMP WINS! OMG RECORD FUNDRAISING! TRUMP LOSES! HERE'S JAMES CARVILLE FOR SOME REASON! And that copy they keep using over and over again "[Dem #1] emailed. [Dem #2] emailed. And now I'm emailing you to (blah blah blehhh whatever)". At least a dozen of those.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:05 PM on August 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
ELECTIONS NEWS
** AL senate special -- Harper Polling finds Moore up on Strange 47-45, much closer than other polls. However, sounds like the poll design may have been a little wonky.
** 2018 Senate:
** AL senate special -- Harper Polling finds Moore up on Strange 47-45, much closer than other polls. However, sounds like the poll design may have been a little wonky.
** 2018 Senate:
-- An FAU poll in Florida has Dem Sen Bill Nelson 42-40 over possible GOP opponent Gov Rick Scott.** Odds & ends:
-- As trailed yesterday, Rep Lou Barletta has formally jumped in for the race for the GOP nom against Dem Sen Bill Casey. Barletta won't be running for his House seat again, which at least gives the hope of someone less odious replacing him. [Inquirer]
-- In a (nominally nonpartisan) race for Fairfax County, VA school board (DC suburbs, over 185k students), the Dems flipped a seat from the GOP, winning with 59% of the vote.posted by Chrysostom at 6:07 PM on August 29, 2017 [45 favorites]
-- Another special election will be happening for Georgia state Senate, as SD-6's Hunter Hill is resigning to run for governor. This is a GOP-held seat, but looks to be an excellent pickup opportunity - Hill only won 52-48 in 2016, and Clinton took the seat 56-40.
-- Mentioned upstream, more bad Trump approval numbers from Pew (36/63, majority of Rs having mixed opinions) and Gallup (35/60, down to 20 in people 18-29 years old)
-- Chris Christie says he won't appoint himself to Senate, if Bob Menendez has to leave the Senate over his corruption trial. [Politico]
-- TPM: Pros and cons of the Dem candidate glut.
Going back over the North Korea stuff, it strikes me that while everyone keeps yammering about their "next generation" missile, if they're depending on New Old Stock surplus Russian rocket motors there not only almost certainly won't be a next generation, there is probably a sharp limit to how many of this generation they can ever build. That kind of rocket motor isn't a thing you just scan and duplicate in your 3D printer. The materials and manufacturing techniques are very specialized and not always obvious from inspection of the one you took apart.
And for similar and even stronger reasons I'm very skeptical that they have highly boosted nukes, simply because the challenges of even maintaining one that you managed to lift out of the former USSR are formidable and probably beyond the DPRK's capability. You can do light nuke boosting with lithium deuteride, that might get you to 30 kt and from 10 tons down to 1-2 tons throw weight, but to do better than that you need tritium, a hard to handle gas which can only be made in very specialized nuclear reactors and has a 12 year half-life. You also need to figure out how to put this hard to handle gas inside a fissile bomb core durably enough so it will still be there when you set off the bomb, and you have to design the whole assembly to profitably use the boost which is hard to do without testing that NK has demonstrably never done.
So I guess it comes back to ... when it's really pretty obvious that this is strategically meaningless kabuki theatre, why are our own people trying so hard to scare us with it?
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:14 PM on August 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
And for similar and even stronger reasons I'm very skeptical that they have highly boosted nukes, simply because the challenges of even maintaining one that you managed to lift out of the former USSR are formidable and probably beyond the DPRK's capability. You can do light nuke boosting with lithium deuteride, that might get you to 30 kt and from 10 tons down to 1-2 tons throw weight, but to do better than that you need tritium, a hard to handle gas which can only be made in very specialized nuclear reactors and has a 12 year half-life. You also need to figure out how to put this hard to handle gas inside a fissile bomb core durably enough so it will still be there when you set off the bomb, and you have to design the whole assembly to profitably use the boost which is hard to do without testing that NK has demonstrably never done.
So I guess it comes back to ... when it's really pretty obvious that this is strategically meaningless kabuki theatre, why are our own people trying so hard to scare us with it?
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:14 PM on August 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
-- In a (nominally nonpartisan) race for Fairfax County, VA school board (DC suburbs, over 185k students), the Dems flipped a seat from the GOP, winning with 59% of the vote.
Serves the outgoing board member right for timing her resignation to force us to replace her through a (low-turnout, expensive) special election -- ten days later and this would have been part of the general.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 6:16 PM on August 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
Serves the outgoing board member right for timing her resignation to force us to replace her through a (low-turnout, expensive) special election -- ten days later and this would have been part of the general.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 6:16 PM on August 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
An FAU poll in Florida has Dem Sen Bill Nelson 42-40 over possible GOP opponent Gov Rick Scott.
I suppose I should feel good about this? But honestly... I don't know how we elected Gov. Voldemort TWICE.
posted by JustKeepSwimming at 6:18 PM on August 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
I suppose I should feel good about this? But honestly... I don't know how we elected Gov. Voldemort TWICE.
posted by JustKeepSwimming at 6:18 PM on August 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
Serves the outgoing board member right for timing her resignation to force us to replace her through a (low-turnout, expensive) special election
Considering the near civil war brewing within the GOP right now, maybe this was deliberate?
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:20 PM on August 29, 2017
Considering the near civil war brewing within the GOP right now, maybe this was deliberate?
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:20 PM on August 29, 2017
Of course it was, but I don't see it as emblematic of GOP civil war. Just another way to depress turnout. I'd never have known it was happening if I hadn't been canvassed on Saturday, and I work for the news media!
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 6:22 PM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 6:22 PM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Don't blame me, I voted for Clinton.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:25 PM on August 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 6:25 PM on August 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
Wasn't aware of the controversy, anem0ne, will keep it in mind. In many circles it's the term of art for "meaningless political theatre," but it wouldn't be the first such culturally offensive term.
In other news, some people might be a bit bothered by "flooded with..." emails etc. right about now. Just sayin'.
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:31 PM on August 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
In other news, some people might be a bit bothered by "flooded with..." emails etc. right about now. Just sayin'.
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:31 PM on August 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
So I guess it comes back to ... when it's really pretty obvious that this is strategically meaningless kabuki theatre, why are our own people trying so hard to scare us with it?
Well, it does depend on who "us" is. People who live in / have family in / spend a lot of time in Japan or South Korea have a lot more reason to be worried. Especially with Trump making things worse. I guess technically most Americans don't have to care about all the people who will die if Trump escalates from Kim's provocations.
posted by thefoxgod at 6:31 PM on August 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
Well, it does depend on who "us" is. People who live in / have family in / spend a lot of time in Japan or South Korea have a lot more reason to be worried. Especially with Trump making things worse. I guess technically most Americans don't have to care about all the people who will die if Trump escalates from Kim's provocations.
posted by thefoxgod at 6:31 PM on August 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
Julian Schmoke, a former dean at DeVry University will oversee a Department of Education unit that polices higher education fraud (story is paywalled, here's the tweet). Seems a bit on the nose.
And, Rep. Gianforte is refusing to meet with Ben Jacobs, which he promised to do at his sentencing. The note Jacobs sent to Gianforte's spokesman is fire: "Otherwise, should we meet in the halls of the Capitol, I hope I can approach him without fear of physical assault." CNN has more details.
posted by zachlipton at 6:34 PM on August 29, 2017 [32 favorites]
And, Rep. Gianforte is refusing to meet with Ben Jacobs, which he promised to do at his sentencing. The note Jacobs sent to Gianforte's spokesman is fire: "Otherwise, should we meet in the halls of the Capitol, I hope I can approach him without fear of physical assault." CNN has more details.
posted by zachlipton at 6:34 PM on August 29, 2017 [32 favorites]
(To clarify, Gianforte's people are claiming he'll meet with Jacobs off the record, which isn't really the point.)
posted by zachlipton at 6:45 PM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by zachlipton at 6:45 PM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Jacob Silverman, NYT: In Our Cynical Age, No One Fails Anymore — Everybody ‘Pivots’
The ‘‘pivot’’ has assumed a peculiar place in our common lexicon. A word once used to describe a guard angling for position on the basketball court is now in wide circulation in politics and business. That’s especially the case in Silicon Valley, where pivoting has become the new failure, a concept to describe a haphazard, practically madcap form of iterative development. With its sheen of management-speak, pivoting is well suited to our moment. And like any act of public relations, pivoting is also a performance. A key part of the act is acknowledging that you are doing it while trying to recast the effort as something larger, more sophisticated, highly planned. The pivot, though it arises from desperation, is nevertheless supposed to appear methodical. [...]posted by tonycpsu at 6:45 PM on August 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
A cynical gesture for a cynical age, pivoting is designed for a public sphere where bad faith is a given and attention, of any kind, is the ultimate commodity. Trump knows how to profit from the attention economy, but he is not playing the multidimensional chess with which his enemies (and allies) occasionally credit him. Instead, he seems to be a creature of pure id, making impulsive, superficial decisions based on what he sees around himself. Trump sometimes changes his mind, but he rarely manages to act in any strategic sense. The mistake the media sometimes make is crediting Trump with strategic brilliance when he’s capable of nothing of the sort. But it can seem as if Trump’s behavior is so venal, so beyond pale and precedent, that it must reflect some kind of plan. Who would act this way otherwise?
I guess technically most Americans don't have to care about all the people who will die if Trump escalates from Kim's provocations.
Realistically, 99% of the people who have to worry about dying from a Korean escalation live in on the Korean peninsula, and they are still alive today because NK hasn't wanted to get kicked back by the giant. Right now it is tossing almost literal firecrackers in the giant's face, but I'm guessing it still doesn't want to get kicked back, because if it did it would have gone off on Seoul by means it very much does have at its command long ago. Indeed, I'm more curious about NK's motivations here than I am about our own war hawks, whose motivations have always been pretty transparent. Just why is the DPRK trying so hard to pretend it is a world power? Are its leaders really stupid enough to think our leaders (if not our gullible public) believe in these new "capabilities?"
It's an interesting question to ask how many of these NOS Russian engines Pyongyang has. (Having heard the argument I am now 100% sure this is the source of their sudden sans-testing rocket prowess.) They have yet to even inaccurately aim one at anything. I know our hawks' game but I can't quite fathom NK's, unless their leadership truly is insane. And even if that is the case, again the real threat is to tens of millions of people on the Korean peninsula, not to Japan or Guam, which NK probably still can't hit with a real weapon even if they sincerely wanted to.
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:46 PM on August 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
Realistically, 99% of the people who have to worry about dying from a Korean escalation live in on the Korean peninsula, and they are still alive today because NK hasn't wanted to get kicked back by the giant. Right now it is tossing almost literal firecrackers in the giant's face, but I'm guessing it still doesn't want to get kicked back, because if it did it would have gone off on Seoul by means it very much does have at its command long ago. Indeed, I'm more curious about NK's motivations here than I am about our own war hawks, whose motivations have always been pretty transparent. Just why is the DPRK trying so hard to pretend it is a world power? Are its leaders really stupid enough to think our leaders (if not our gullible public) believe in these new "capabilities?"
It's an interesting question to ask how many of these NOS Russian engines Pyongyang has. (Having heard the argument I am now 100% sure this is the source of their sudden sans-testing rocket prowess.) They have yet to even inaccurately aim one at anything. I know our hawks' game but I can't quite fathom NK's, unless their leadership truly is insane. And even if that is the case, again the real threat is to tens of millions of people on the Korean peninsula, not to Japan or Guam, which NK probably still can't hit with a real weapon even if they sincerely wanted to.
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:46 PM on August 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
-- In a (nominally nonpartisan) race for Fairfax County, VA school board (DC suburbs, over 185k students), the Dems flipped a seat from the GOP, winning with 59% of the vote.Yay! Postcards to Voters targeted that one. Everyone who has decent handwriting should join Postcards to Voters! They send handwritten postcards to voters in close local races, reminding them to vote.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:48 PM on August 29, 2017 [24 favorites]
Trump doesn't even fucking pivot, he just fucks up repeatedly in the exact same ways and the media presumes a pivot for him because of their stupid narrative expectations.
posted by Artw at 6:51 PM on August 29, 2017 [50 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:51 PM on August 29, 2017 [50 favorites]
At some point a pivot just becomes a rather graceless pirouette.
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:53 PM on August 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:53 PM on August 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
A beheaded chicken will pivot rapidly and vigorously.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:59 PM on August 29, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:59 PM on August 29, 2017 [21 favorites]
Indeed, I'm more curious about NK's motivations here than I am about our own war hawks, whose motivations have always been pretty transparent.
Kim's motivations have been pretty transparent too though, have they not? Kim and the NK regime know they're world pariahs, and watched the US topple regimes in Libya and Iraq and giving up their nuclear weapons programs. A true ICBM deterrent is Kim's ticket to avoiding US led regime change forever. They also know the US has no good options to NK aggression, and making Trump's idiotic rhetoric look hollow, like it is, serves every domestic propaganda goal. Even if this latest test is not actually furthering their ICBM development, they almost had to do something in response to Trump's moronic escalation.
Kim holds all the cards. He can provoke almost to any extent knowing there won't actually be a military response, all the while making progress on a permanent nuclear deterrent. That's why Trump playing Kim's same game is the goddamn stupidest thing imaginable. Or, exactly what you would've predicted on 11/9, because Trump is the stupidest person on the face of the planet.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:03 PM on August 29, 2017 [20 favorites]
Kim's motivations have been pretty transparent too though, have they not? Kim and the NK regime know they're world pariahs, and watched the US topple regimes in Libya and Iraq and giving up their nuclear weapons programs. A true ICBM deterrent is Kim's ticket to avoiding US led regime change forever. They also know the US has no good options to NK aggression, and making Trump's idiotic rhetoric look hollow, like it is, serves every domestic propaganda goal. Even if this latest test is not actually furthering their ICBM development, they almost had to do something in response to Trump's moronic escalation.
Kim holds all the cards. He can provoke almost to any extent knowing there won't actually be a military response, all the while making progress on a permanent nuclear deterrent. That's why Trump playing Kim's same game is the goddamn stupidest thing imaginable. Or, exactly what you would've predicted on 11/9, because Trump is the stupidest person on the face of the planet.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:03 PM on August 29, 2017 [20 favorites]
When all else fails, blame hackers. This Trump appointee says it was hackers, not him, who called Obama's mom a 'w@!re'
posted by scalefree at 7:04 PM on August 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 7:04 PM on August 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
Realistically, 99% of the people who have to worry about dying from a Korean escalation live in on the Korean peninsula, and they are still alive today because NK hasn't wanted to get kicked back by the giant.
This is nonsense. The DPRK doesn't want to execute the population of the Korean peninsula. It wants to be left in peace.
Indeed, I'm more curious about NK's motivations here than I am about our own war hawks, whose motivations have always been pretty transparent. Just why is the DPRK trying so hard to pretend it is a world power? Are its leaders really stupid enough to think our leaders (if not our gullible public) believe in these new "capabilities?"
It wants to be left in peace, and it (very rationally, almost certainly correctly) knows that it is a target for US invasion unless it can show itself to be a credible threat--and that means it has to have viable nuclear weapons. Recent history is clear that the US will happily invade and initiate "regime chage" and nation-"building" unless nukes are present and usable.
If you haven't (and I doubt you'd hold the views you espouse here if you have) yet, read Bruce Cumings' North Korea: Another Country.
/long-term Seoul resident and avid reader on both Koreas.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:08 PM on August 29, 2017 [17 favorites]
This is nonsense. The DPRK doesn't want to execute the population of the Korean peninsula. It wants to be left in peace.
Indeed, I'm more curious about NK's motivations here than I am about our own war hawks, whose motivations have always been pretty transparent. Just why is the DPRK trying so hard to pretend it is a world power? Are its leaders really stupid enough to think our leaders (if not our gullible public) believe in these new "capabilities?"
It wants to be left in peace, and it (very rationally, almost certainly correctly) knows that it is a target for US invasion unless it can show itself to be a credible threat--and that means it has to have viable nuclear weapons. Recent history is clear that the US will happily invade and initiate "regime chage" and nation-"building" unless nukes are present and usable.
If you haven't (and I doubt you'd hold the views you espouse here if you have) yet, read Bruce Cumings' North Korea: Another Country.
/long-term Seoul resident and avid reader on both Koreas.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:08 PM on August 29, 2017 [17 favorites]
they almost had to do something in response to Trump's moronic escalation
maybe he can keep tweeting at them until they run out of surplus russian rocket engines
posted by ryanrs at 7:19 PM on August 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
maybe he can keep tweeting at them until they run out of surplus russian rocket engines
posted by ryanrs at 7:19 PM on August 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
To clarify, Gianforte's people are claiming he'll meet with Jacobs off the record, which isn't really the point.
Ehhhh....this one kind of makes sense as a cultural mismatch rather than a deliberate lie. Gianforte's people are saying, "He'll sit down with you over a beer", which, for a Republican-cultured person, is like a "agree to disagree/respect your humanity/no hard feels bro" gesture. Jacobs is a reporter, and has zero interest in jolly Montana beers with someone he honestly has reason to hate, so is like "I want a hard nosed interview", which is probably what he interpreted the "sit-down" offer as.
posted by corb at 7:23 PM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Ehhhh....this one kind of makes sense as a cultural mismatch rather than a deliberate lie. Gianforte's people are saying, "He'll sit down with you over a beer", which, for a Republican-cultured person, is like a "agree to disagree/respect your humanity/no hard feels bro" gesture. Jacobs is a reporter, and has zero interest in jolly Montana beers with someone he honestly has reason to hate, so is like "I want a hard nosed interview", which is probably what he interpreted the "sit-down" offer as.
posted by corb at 7:23 PM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
I think your reading is too kind. In the CNN article it notes, Jacobs first gave his victim statement in which he requested an interview. Gianforte followed and stated he would later arrange time to sit down with him in DC. My read is not so kind. I think Gianforte was trying to sound agreeable during sentencing and is now rules lawyering.
posted by wobumingbai at 7:35 PM on August 29, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by wobumingbai at 7:35 PM on August 29, 2017 [28 favorites]
Joseph Gurl, I'll look the book up, but here's the thing ... nobody with any real knowledge of technology believes NK has a credible threat, or is even close to it. It's our western leaders pimping these theatrical shenanegans to terrify people when anyone who knows the technology, which double-duh must include the US military who developed it first, knows they have solved maybe two at most of at least seven very hard problems needed to make it a credible threat. So why is it being sold by our media in the west as a near-term credible threat to western audiences? Why is NK helping to promote that when it can do nothing but provoke a "response" to which they have no real answer, and to which our leaders know they have no real answer, after all?
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:39 PM on August 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:39 PM on August 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
I wouldn't expect a Republican to keep their word to a journalist. He already he knows he can win elections after personally committing physical violence.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:40 PM on August 29, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:40 PM on August 29, 2017 [20 favorites]
Judge won't vacate Arpaio's contempt conviction without oral arguments
U.S. District Court Judge Susan Bolton canceled former Sheriff Joe Arpaio's upcoming sentencing hearing for his criminal contempt-of-court conviction, telling attorneys not to file replies to motions that were pending before his recent presidential pardon.posted by xyzzy at 7:42 PM on August 29, 2017 [94 favorites]
However, Bolton on Tuesday stopped short of throwing out the conviction based solely on Arpaio's request. Instead she ordered Arpaio and the U.S. Department of Justice, which is prosecuting the case, to file briefs on why she should or shouldn't grant Arpaio's request.
Arpaio's attorneys asked Bolton on Monday to vacate Arpaio's conviction in light of President Donald Trump's Friday pardon.
Bolton has scheduled oral arguments on the matter for Oct. 4, the day before Arpaio was supposed to be sentenced.
There is case law that says a pardon implies an admission of guilt, and that will have to be argued in open court.
Reporters heard no mention of the dead, dying or displaced Texans and no expression of sympathy for them. The message was services are coming and Texans will be OK.
Compassion, sympathy, empathy are behaviors we expect out of the President, but not out of Donald Trump. I don't know if he can experience these behaviors; he certainly hasn't learned to express or fake them.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:02 PM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Compassion, sympathy, empathy are behaviors we expect out of the President, but not out of Donald Trump. I don't know if he can experience these behaviors; he certainly hasn't learned to express or fake them.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:02 PM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
I tell you one thing, if Trump lays eyes on today's North Korea photo op, he's going to lose his fucking shit.
Hopefully nowhere near Twitter and/or the Football.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:02 PM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hopefully nowhere near Twitter and/or the Football.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:02 PM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
The Daily Beast reports that Felix Sater purchased a wide variety of offensive domain names and used them to attack his former business partner (Sater's attorney claims he has nothing to do with this). The domain names include " several variations of FecalBoy.com and FecalMatter.info," fecalmatter dot lawyer, IAmADirtbag.com, Blackmailer.net, VaginaBoy.com, and felcherboy dot com, and I am actually omitting some of the worst ones here, including a homophobic slur. And whatever this is:
posted by zachlipton at 8:04 PM on August 29, 2017 [22 favorites]
Some of the websites registered to Sater were pretty puzzling, too. In one archived front page of MafiaFront.com, which was registered to Sater’s email address, a post titled “Jody Kriss: Lying to Improve His Reputation?" blares at the top. Underneath it, an attempt at a meme reads, “If I was a dog, I'd be a shit-sue because I'm a shit and I love to sue!—Jody Kriss," over a photo of Kriss on a boat in Turkey.Sater seems like a really nice guy.
posted by zachlipton at 8:04 PM on August 29, 2017 [22 favorites]
The domain names include " several variations of FecalBoy.com and FecalMatter.info," fecalmatter dot lawyer, IAmADirtbag.com, Blackmailer.net, VaginaBoy.com, and felcherboy dot com, and I am actually omitting some of the worst ones here, including a homophobic slur.
2017 writers: I have two words for you.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:07 PM on August 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
2017 writers: I have two words for you.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:07 PM on August 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
nobody with any real knowledge of technology believes NK has a credible threat, or is even close to it
Right, so the DPRK has to act "crazy" or "dangerous" until it produces a "credible threat," and everyone knows it's working on it. (That said, it absolutely already has a "credible threat" to Seoul and even to Japan, and if the US is willing to sacrifice millions in Seoul--including tens of thousands of US citizens, then I guess I'm dead.)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 8:07 PM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Right, so the DPRK has to act "crazy" or "dangerous" until it produces a "credible threat," and everyone knows it's working on it. (That said, it absolutely already has a "credible threat" to Seoul and even to Japan, and if the US is willing to sacrifice millions in Seoul--including tens of thousands of US citizens, then I guess I'm dead.)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 8:07 PM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
“If I was a dog, I'd be a shit-sue because I'm a shit and I love to sue!—Jody Kriss," over a photo of Kriss on a boat in Turkey.
Sater should consider breaking into weird twitter because this is like @dril levels of nonsensical
posted by dis_integration at 8:33 PM on August 29, 2017 [17 favorites]
Sater should consider breaking into weird twitter because this is like @dril levels of nonsensical
posted by dis_integration at 8:33 PM on August 29, 2017 [17 favorites]
Seriously, there HAS to be a crazy ceiling at some point, right? The crazy cannot just continue to escalate precipitously forever? It would like violate a law of thermodynamics or a fractal thingie or whatever for the cosmos to attempt to sustain this level of consistent batshitinsane, let alone a steep growth curve. The strategic lunacy reserve has to be at a dangerous all-time low at this point.
*clutching at straws*
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:40 PM on August 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
*clutching at straws*
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:40 PM on August 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
It would like violate a law of thermodynamics
No. It's exactly the point of the second law of thermodynamics. Entropy always increases. Order and structure always decays.
posted by Talez at 8:47 PM on August 29, 2017 [34 favorites]
No. It's exactly the point of the second law of thermodynamics. Entropy always increases. Order and structure always decays.
posted by Talez at 8:47 PM on August 29, 2017 [34 favorites]
The thing is, humans are, on average, exactly this stupid and weird all of the time. Some of the time, though, it's like a group of people who can't sing singing together, where the collective sounds amazing even if each individual sounds awful. We take that choir for granted, when in reality it requires everyone to at least try and sing the same song. Unfortunately, the republicans only know the words to "Money" by the Flying Lizards.
posted by maxwelton at 8:49 PM on August 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by maxwelton at 8:49 PM on August 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
Unfortunately, the republicans only know the words to "Money" by the Flying Lizards
Barrett Strong.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 8:52 PM on August 29, 2017
Barrett Strong.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 8:52 PM on August 29, 2017
Think of how intelligent the average person is. 50% of people are dumber than that.
posted by Talez at 8:52 PM on August 29, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by Talez at 8:52 PM on August 29, 2017 [18 favorites]
Barrett Strong.
Beatles
Oh, alright, the Flying Lizards' version is the best, though.
posted by yhbc at 8:57 PM on August 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
No. It's exactly the point of the second law of thermodynamics. Entropy always increases. Order and structure always decays.
Well sure, but it's possible to have non-crazy entropy and totally nutty order and structure. The two are orthogonal. It's the ludicrousness of the chaos that bugs me.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:59 PM on August 29, 2017
Well sure, but it's possible to have non-crazy entropy and totally nutty order and structure. The two are orthogonal. It's the ludicrousness of the chaos that bugs me.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:59 PM on August 29, 2017
On that we can agree, yhbc.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 9:01 PM on August 29, 2017
posted by Joseph Gurl at 9:01 PM on August 29, 2017
The crazy cannot just continue to escalate precipitously forever?
Something something turning and turning in the widening gyre, the falcon cannot hear the falconer blah blah, etc.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:06 PM on August 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
Something something turning and turning in the widening gyre, the falcon cannot hear the falconer blah blah, etc.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:06 PM on August 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
Also, who the heck mandated that entropy has to be a race? I miss that nice leisurely type of entropy, like in The Dark Tower.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:09 PM on August 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:09 PM on August 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
Fractal idiocy is a pretty good model, too. No matter how far you zoom in or out, the pattern of idiocy remains.
posted by darkstar at 9:10 PM on August 29, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by darkstar at 9:10 PM on August 29, 2017 [19 favorites]
When all else fails, blame hackers. This Trump appointee says it was hackers, not him, who called Obama's mom a 'w@!re'
We use this cliché a lot here in these threads, but it really bears repeating here: This Is Not Normal.
Not only did this filthy piece of shit use a not-exactly-sex-positive pejorative for a sex worker to refer to the mother of a former President, but he is the nominee to the Energy Department's Office of Indian Energy. If I understand this correctly (and forgive me because it's getting late and I haven't Googled it), that sounds like an office dealing with Native American concerns (like the Bureau of Indian Affairs, for instance).
We are dealing with emotionally and intellectually stunted children in adult bodies. It's no more complicated than that, and let's not try to dignify it by suggesting it's anything more or less than that. These are effectively children pretending to do adult jobs.
THIS. IS. NOT. NORMAL.
The hatred, the racism, the misogyny — of course, those are all there. Sadly, those have all become part of the dull roar in the background of this administration; the absence of any of these things would actually cause us to perk up our ears when we notice the sudden absence of something we've come to expect as the norm. But on top of all of those things, this guy, like so many others in the administration, is an emotionally stunted child. Damn near all of them are.
We are being governed by children. But not even normal, emotionally healthy children — rather, we are being ruled by wastrels who have been kicked around, bullied, and abused by others, and who are now making it their life's mission to make sure the rest of us feel at least 10-20 times the pain they did growing up.
Not normal.
posted by CommonSense at 9:15 PM on August 29, 2017 [101 favorites]
We use this cliché a lot here in these threads, but it really bears repeating here: This Is Not Normal.
Not only did this filthy piece of shit use a not-exactly-sex-positive pejorative for a sex worker to refer to the mother of a former President, but he is the nominee to the Energy Department's Office of Indian Energy. If I understand this correctly (and forgive me because it's getting late and I haven't Googled it), that sounds like an office dealing with Native American concerns (like the Bureau of Indian Affairs, for instance).
We are dealing with emotionally and intellectually stunted children in adult bodies. It's no more complicated than that, and let's not try to dignify it by suggesting it's anything more or less than that. These are effectively children pretending to do adult jobs.
THIS. IS. NOT. NORMAL.
The hatred, the racism, the misogyny — of course, those are all there. Sadly, those have all become part of the dull roar in the background of this administration; the absence of any of these things would actually cause us to perk up our ears when we notice the sudden absence of something we've come to expect as the norm. But on top of all of those things, this guy, like so many others in the administration, is an emotionally stunted child. Damn near all of them are.
We are being governed by children. But not even normal, emotionally healthy children — rather, we are being ruled by wastrels who have been kicked around, bullied, and abused by others, and who are now making it their life's mission to make sure the rest of us feel at least 10-20 times the pain they did growing up.
Not normal.
posted by CommonSense at 9:15 PM on August 29, 2017 [101 favorites]
Not only did this filthy piece of shit use a not-exactly-sex-positive pejorative for a sex worker to refer to the mother of a former President, but he is the nominee to the Energy Department's Office of Indian Energy.
Yes, let us imagine this incident involved an Obama appointee and Barbara Bush.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:18 PM on August 29, 2017 [30 favorites]
Yes, let us imagine this incident involved an Obama appointee and Barbara Bush.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:18 PM on August 29, 2017 [30 favorites]
So that's who registered all the felching domains! No wonder I had such a hard time getting a domain name for my blog.
posted by ryanrs at 9:30 PM on August 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by ryanrs at 9:30 PM on August 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
No. It's exactly the point of the second law of thermodynamics. Entropy always increases. Order and structure always decays.
Entropy only applies to closed systems. You put enough energy into a system, you can decrease entropy. There may be a metaphor lurking in the previous sentence.
posted by middleclasstool at 9:32 PM on August 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
Entropy only applies to closed systems. You put enough energy into a system, you can decrease entropy. There may be a metaphor lurking in the previous sentence.
posted by middleclasstool at 9:32 PM on August 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
let us imagine this incident involved an Obama appointee and Barbara Bush
That would not have happened, because Barbara Bush was a white woman married to a white man.
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:34 PM on August 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
That would not have happened, because Barbara Bush was a white woman married to a white man.
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:34 PM on August 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
CommonSense: "If I understand this correctly (and forgive me because it's getting late and I haven't Googled it), that sounds like an office dealing with Native American concerns (like the Bureau of Indian Affairs, for instance)."
The U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) Office of Indian Energy Policy and Programs is authorized to fund and implement a variety of programmatic activities that assist American Indian Tribes and Alaska Native villages with energy development, capacity building, energy cost reduction, and electrification of Indian lands and homes.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:39 PM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
The U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) Office of Indian Energy Policy and Programs is authorized to fund and implement a variety of programmatic activities that assist American Indian Tribes and Alaska Native villages with energy development, capacity building, energy cost reduction, and electrification of Indian lands and homes.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:39 PM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
San Francisco Chronicle, Feinstein surprises SF crowd by expressing hope for Trump
Oh, and she sure seems like she's running again.
posted by zachlipton at 10:20 PM on August 29, 2017 [84 favorites]
Feinstein received a standing ovation from the 850 people at the sold-out Herbst Theater when she walked onto the stage for an hour-long “conversation” with former East Bay Rep. Ellen Tauscher. But near the end of the political lovefest, the senator shocked the crowd when she declined to say that Trump should be impeached and warned the audience that they should expect to deal with the developer-turned politician for all four years of his term.It's nearly September and she's still in the "we'll have to see" if he can develop empathy phase? We're talking about a man who literally told his biographer he hasn't changed since 1st grade. How gullible can Sen. Feinstein be?
“The question is whether he can learn and change,” Feinstein told the crowd at the Commonwealth Club event. “If so, I believe he can be a good president.”
That sort of talk is never heard in Democratic circles, where California congress members already are talking about what they see as the need to impeach Trump or remove him from office via the 25th Amendment.
The crowd reacted with stunned silence, broken only with scattered “No’s” and a few hisses and some nervous laughter.
But Feinstein didn’t back away, reacting to a question about why Democrats aren’t being more out front in attacking Trump by reminding people that not only is Trump president, but he’s also only been in office for eight months.
“We’ll have to see if can forget himself enough and have the type of empathy and direction the country needs,” she said.
If he doesn’t, she added, “there are things that can be done.”
Oh, and she sure seems like she's running again.
posted by zachlipton at 10:20 PM on August 29, 2017 [84 favorites]
'The question is whether he can learn and change,' Feinstein told the crowd at the Commonwealth Club event. 'If so, I believe he can be a good president.'
Um, calling Nazis good people pretty much puts your ceiling at shit president, dumbass.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:27 PM on August 29, 2017 [58 favorites]
If only half the effort were spent replacing a garbage senator like Feinstein in bright blue California as sabotaging our Chances in places like the Dakotas or WV!
posted by Justinian at 10:30 PM on August 29, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 10:30 PM on August 29, 2017 [15 favorites]
Charlottesville Beating Suspect Is Arrested in Georgia:
One of the suspects in the beating of a young African-American man during the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Va., was arrested in Georgia on Monday.posted by Joseph Gurl at 10:33 PM on August 29, 2017 [15 favorites]
Alex Michael Ramos, 33, was charged with malicious wounding in the Aug. 12 attack on DeAndre Harris, 20, a teacher’s aide and aspiring rapper, who was beaten by a group of people with wooden boards and pipes.
Mr. Ramos was being held Tuesday in Forsyth, Ga., about an hour south of Atlanta.
The attack was captured on video, and the images were shared widely on social media and used to highlight the mayhem that broke out at the white-power rally when the police did not step in to keep order. The video images helped the authorities identify at least two of the suspected assailants, Mr. Ramos and another man, Daniel P. Borden, who was arrested in Ohio on Friday. At least four more of the assailants have yet to be identified.
Fucking Feinstein. She's so out of touch it's embarrassing. Also sorry, you don't get to learn to be president on a fucking trial and error basis, give me a break. I am sick to my eyeballs of "We need to give Trump a chance!" Number one, no we bloody well don't, and two, he's been president for 8 months how many fucking chances does one man need? Am I allowed to walk into a new job and been an utter failure for 8 months while people patiently explain that they're waiting to see if I can grow into the role? The way Trump is infantilized by people like he's a college freshman at his first internship is stomach turning and the ne plus ultra example of white male privilege. Infinity chances! Infinity patience! Infinity do overs! White dudes really do play the game of life on easy.
posted by supercrayon at 10:40 PM on August 29, 2017 [121 favorites]
posted by supercrayon at 10:40 PM on August 29, 2017 [121 favorites]
Isn't Ramos a Spanish or Portuguese name? Why would someone with that surname hang with white supremacists, or vice versa?
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:42 PM on August 29, 2017
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:42 PM on August 29, 2017
Joe - he's Puerto Rican (and he says that means he "isn't racist").
posted by Joseph Gurl at 10:45 PM on August 29, 2017
posted by Joseph Gurl at 10:45 PM on August 29, 2017
How gullible can Sen. Feinstein be?
Having been completely unimpressed by how ready she was to defend the NSA dragnet, my guess is "very gullible".
posted by flabdablet at 10:54 PM on August 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
Having been completely unimpressed by how ready she was to defend the NSA dragnet, my guess is "very gullible".
posted by flabdablet at 10:54 PM on August 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
Goddamn fucking party of bipartisanship deadender trying to normalise republicans to point where she can surrender to them.
Primary her.
posted by Artw at 10:59 PM on August 29, 2017 [66 favorites]
Primary her.
posted by Artw at 10:59 PM on August 29, 2017 [66 favorites]
Hear, hear. Get her out. What an idiot.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 10:59 PM on August 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Joseph Gurl at 10:59 PM on August 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
Isn't Ramos a Spanish or Portuguese name? Why would someone with that surname hang with white supremacists, or vice versa?
Because they promise he's white enough, but the other guys aren't. Much to my shame, we have those guys - Hispanic guys who just long to be given the whiteness baton so they can ride their way to the American Dream they were promised.
posted by corb at 11:08 PM on August 29, 2017 [19 favorites]
Because they promise he's white enough, but the other guys aren't. Much to my shame, we have those guys - Hispanic guys who just long to be given the whiteness baton so they can ride their way to the American Dream they were promised.
posted by corb at 11:08 PM on August 29, 2017 [19 favorites]
Remember the Far Side cartoon where there's three people standing at a water fountain in the middle of the desert, and one says "Hold on, let's let it run for a few more minutes to see if it gets any colder."?
posted by rifflesby at 11:11 PM on August 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by rifflesby at 11:11 PM on August 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
Are you thinking of this one, maybe?
posted by Chrysostom at 11:26 PM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Chrysostom at 11:26 PM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
The attack was captured on video, and the images were shared widely on social media and used to highlight the mayhem that broke out at the white-power rally when the police did not step in to keep order. The video images helped the authorities identify at least two of the suspected assailants, Mr. Ramos and another man, Daniel P. Borden, who was arrested in Ohio on Friday. At least four more of the assailants have yet to be identified.
This took way too long. Cops were arresting people for tearing down the Robert E Lee monument in Durham the day after it happened.
posted by scalefree at 11:41 PM on August 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
This took way too long. Cops were arresting people for tearing down the Robert E Lee monument in Durham the day after it happened.
posted by scalefree at 11:41 PM on August 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
Confederate flag sales surge after Charlottesville violence
posted by Yowser at 11:45 PM on August 29, 2017
posted by Yowser at 11:45 PM on August 29, 2017
Isn't Ramos a Spanish or Portuguese name? Why would someone with that surname hang with white supremacists, or vice versa?
The same reason a guy named Arpaio is so concerned with policing ethnicity, I guess
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:57 PM on August 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
The same reason a guy named Arpaio is so concerned with policing ethnicity, I guess
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:57 PM on August 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
> People don't double down on unpopular political symbols when they're feeling good. They double down when they're feeling insecure, uncertain, and cornered.And then they elected Trump.
posted by runcifex at 12:02 AM on August 30, 2017 [13 favorites]
While protesting outside the AZ convention center last week (was it last week?), we heard someone in the Trump line shout "Get a job". Economic insecurity my ass. I'm pretty sure plenty of them do indeed believe any white supremacist notion you might ascribe to them.
posted by nat at 12:26 AM on August 30, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by nat at 12:26 AM on August 30, 2017 [11 favorites]
I mean, I have a hard time taking the parochial dudes' collective stress response as a "win" for any party. I think it's a kind of fail for everyone. I'm very pessimistic and I think humans are headed to an authoritarian bonfire of gigantic scales so my views may be clouded.
The "intrinsically un-representative system" is part of the complex that includes white supremacy and the alt-right, among others. This is an inherently oppressive and degrading system responding to stress in order to sustain itself, and it's incredibly effective at that.
The title picture to the Independent article, a Latina, probably low-income, seamstress making Confederate battle flags, says it all. I'm not sure what she thinks about it. But if I were in her shoes I'd be deeply humiliated, and the only reason I'd be stuck with that kind of job would be the massive deck stacked against me forcing me there. But then again, perhaps I'm reading too much into one picture.
I just feel pissed. I fear what's to come after Trump's (eventual) downfall. The contrast of raw firepower from the pro-liberty, pro-freedom side and the pro-alienation, pro-oppression side doesn't look so good.
posted by runcifex at 12:43 AM on August 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
The "intrinsically un-representative system" is part of the complex that includes white supremacy and the alt-right, among others. This is an inherently oppressive and degrading system responding to stress in order to sustain itself, and it's incredibly effective at that.
The title picture to the Independent article, a Latina, probably low-income, seamstress making Confederate battle flags, says it all. I'm not sure what she thinks about it. But if I were in her shoes I'd be deeply humiliated, and the only reason I'd be stuck with that kind of job would be the massive deck stacked against me forcing me there. But then again, perhaps I'm reading too much into one picture.
I just feel pissed. I fear what's to come after Trump's (eventual) downfall. The contrast of raw firepower from the pro-liberty, pro-freedom side and the pro-alienation, pro-oppression side doesn't look so good.
posted by runcifex at 12:43 AM on August 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
Are there any Democrats planning to challenge Feinstein in the next primary? How does that process happen?
posted by panic at 1:13 AM on August 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by panic at 1:13 AM on August 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
>>Isn't Ramos a Spanish or Portuguese name? Why would someone with that surname hang with white supremacists, or vice versa?
Because they promise he's white enough, but the other guys aren't. Much to my shame, we have those guys - Hispanic guys who just long to be given the whiteness baton so they can ride their way to the American Dream they were promised.
Yup. I'm related to a whole passel of them. And my Trumpified relatives absolutely do not get that, when 45 talks about "bad hombres" and such, he means them as much as he means anyone. It matters to them that we all were born here, and that we're Hispanos instead of Mexicanos, so they think it matters to everyone, including Trump. But it doesn't.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 1:54 AM on August 30, 2017 [37 favorites]
Because they promise he's white enough, but the other guys aren't. Much to my shame, we have those guys - Hispanic guys who just long to be given the whiteness baton so they can ride their way to the American Dream they were promised.
Yup. I'm related to a whole passel of them. And my Trumpified relatives absolutely do not get that, when 45 talks about "bad hombres" and such, he means them as much as he means anyone. It matters to them that we all were born here, and that we're Hispanos instead of Mexicanos, so they think it matters to everyone, including Trump. But it doesn't.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 1:54 AM on August 30, 2017 [37 favorites]
Some experiences I've had, it's perversely easier to realize what's up if you don't have a Spanish surname? Because people will say things about Mexicans or whoever else to your face that they'd never say if they realized. They've created a fiction about who the "problems" are, and you have to be able to peel back those layers. They'll tell you "illegal" immigrants are the problem, people on welfare are the problem, black people are the problem--they don't mean you, you just look Mediterranean. Until they think your last name is probably German or something, and then suddenly sometimes they're happy to tell you things you never wanted to know about what they think about the general work ethic of Mexicans because their lawn service didn't show up this week.
posted by Sequence at 2:29 AM on August 30, 2017 [45 favorites]
posted by Sequence at 2:29 AM on August 30, 2017 [45 favorites]
Are there any Democrats planning to challenge Feinstein in the next primary? How does that process happen?
Ted Lieu has been positioning himself for a run but it's not remotely clear that he'll go for it as a primary challenger rather than as a contender for an open seat. A current member of Congress has way more to lose from pissing off the party leadership than some random state rep or neophyte.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 4:31 AM on August 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
Ted Lieu has been positioning himself for a run but it's not remotely clear that he'll go for it as a primary challenger rather than as a contender for an open seat. A current member of Congress has way more to lose from pissing off the party leadership than some random state rep or neophyte.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 4:31 AM on August 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
They'll tell you "illegal" immigrants are the problem, people on welfare are the problem, black people are the problem--they don't mean you, you just look Mediterranean.
Yeah, I remember when an Italian sounding name, like Arpaio, would mean you couldn't get a job.
posted by mikelieman at 4:31 AM on August 30, 2017 [11 favorites]
Yeah, I remember when an Italian sounding name, like Arpaio, would mean you couldn't get a job.
posted by mikelieman at 4:31 AM on August 30, 2017 [11 favorites]
Until they think your last name is probably German or something, and then suddenly sometimes they're happy to tell you things you never wanted to know about what they think about the general work ethic of Mexicans because their lawn service didn't show up this week.
Hell, they'll do it even when they know you're an immigrant from South America, because you've been married into the family for 30+ years. (Ask me how my mother knows this!)
Racism is a hell of a drug.
posted by ultranos at 4:44 AM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
Hell, they'll do it even when they know you're an immigrant from South America, because you've been married into the family for 30+ years. (Ask me how my mother knows this!)
Racism is a hell of a drug.
posted by ultranos at 4:44 AM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
Some things never change.
@thalestral
When nazis held a "Pro-America" rally in Madison Square Garden in 1939, the US press focused on the "violent" "anti-nazi" protesters [screenshots]
---
These snippets from the LA Times article are eerily familiar.
posted by chris24 at 4:55 AM on August 30, 2017 [90 favorites]
@thalestral
When nazis held a "Pro-America" rally in Madison Square Garden in 1939, the US press focused on the "violent" "anti-nazi" protesters [screenshots]
---
These snippets from the LA Times article are eerily familiar.
Declaring that "their is no free radio for white men" he suggested the Bund demand that radio chains "cease giving the people the trash of the Cantors, Winchells and Bernsteins and give them instead the voice of those who speak American without an accent."Also at this rally and mentioned in the article, journalist Dorothy Thompson - wife of Sinclair Lewis who had written It Can't Happen Here just a a few years earlier - was hauled off by police for laughing at the speakers.
---
The applause swelled again when he said "If George Washington were alive today he would be a friend of the German" and when he praised Washington's injunction against "entangling alliances." ... Froboese's speech was also a tirade against Jewry. He denounced "all international Marxists and Jewish leeches of class warfare." "Jewish international money interests and Jewish agitators" he shouted, "are supposed to represent labor, but have never worked a day in their lives."
posted by chris24 at 4:55 AM on August 30, 2017 [90 favorites]
I think I speak for many (many!) when I say Chris Christie is horrible. But still, it brightens my day a bit to know he'll get up at dawn just to go on TV and call Ted Cruz a fucking liar.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:55 AM on August 30, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:55 AM on August 30, 2017 [16 favorites]
We're stuck with Feinstein till she dies. There doesn't seem to be any serious primary challenger and the Democrats will burn anyone who goes against her. She's a made woman of the preemptive surrender caucus that still controls the party.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:57 AM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:57 AM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
Um, guys, California doesn't have primaries in that sense any more, and it doesn't have party nominations in any significant sense.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:25 AM on August 30, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:25 AM on August 30, 2017 [10 favorites]
Yeah, Feinstein will probably be up against another Dem in the general.
posted by ryanrs at 5:26 AM on August 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by ryanrs at 5:26 AM on August 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
So any challenger would likely split the left vote and hand it to the republicans?
posted by adept256 at 5:40 AM on August 30, 2017
posted by adept256 at 5:40 AM on August 30, 2017
No. There is an open primary, then the top 2 face off in the general. Last election both candidates in the general were Dems, no Republican candidate.
posted by ryanrs at 5:46 AM on August 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by ryanrs at 5:46 AM on August 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
Someone seems angry he didn't get the fawning adulation from the press he wanted from his trip to Texas. Time to pitch a fit.
@realDonaldTrump
The U.S. has been talking to North Korea, and paying them extortion money, for 25 years. Talking is not the answer!
posted by chris24 at 5:51 AM on August 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump
The U.S. has been talking to North Korea, and paying them extortion money, for 25 years. Talking is not the answer!
posted by chris24 at 5:51 AM on August 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
The mayor of Port Arthur, TX says every house there is under water right now and people have been tweeting desperate pleas for help for hours (rescues were suspended until sunrise), and this asshole is tweeting about North Korea and planning to pitch his corporate tax cuts today. What the hell.
posted by melissasaurus at 5:56 AM on August 30, 2017 [37 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 5:56 AM on August 30, 2017 [37 favorites]
Google pressures New America think tank, which it funds, to fire entire 10 person open markets team
Google doesn't like the new Democratic rediscovery of monopoly power, so they decided to excercise their monopoly power. Beating back the corporate takeover of liberal institutions won't be easy. Remember "don't be evil"?
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:56 AM on August 30, 2017 [14 favorites]
Google doesn't like the new Democratic rediscovery of monopoly power, so they decided to excercise their monopoly power. Beating back the corporate takeover of liberal institutions won't be easy. Remember "don't be evil"?
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:56 AM on August 30, 2017 [14 favorites]
I agree with Trump for once, with a small edit.
Talking Belligerent ranting on twitter is not the answer!
posted by adept256 at 5:59 AM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by adept256 at 5:59 AM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
Axios: The incredible shrinking president
As President Trump formally launches his tax-reform drive this afternoon with a no-details, "vision-casting" speech in Springfield, Missouri, the self-inflicted wounds of the past 222 days are adding up. The "most powerful man in the world" is suddenly looking mighty powerless:posted by chris24 at 6:10 AM on August 30, 2017 [64 favorites]
- Speaker Ryan and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell are going their own way on tax reform. Hill sources believe his original targets, including a 15% corporate rate, are dead.
- SecDef Mattis didn't immediately embrace his full ban on transgender troops.
- His Justice Department won't drop the Russia probe.
- Courts won't allow his full Muslim ban.
- Mexico won't pay for his wall.
- Congress won't pay for his wall.
- The Senate won't pass his promised health-care reform.
- Gary Cohn and Sec State Tillerson won't tolerate his Charlottesville response.
- North Korea won't heed his warnings.
- China doesn't fear his trade threats.
- CEOs won't sit on his councils.
- Mexico and Canada won't bend to his will on NAFTA.
*sigh*
i was cruising youtube last night when i discovered like umpteen cretins purveying a saga of left-wing double agents behind the Charlottesville violence, like, there are no actual nazi's, only crazed lefties impersonating nazis to make poor victimized conservatives look bad. and like, these people WERE NOT the horny acne-infested 12 year old golems i had always assumed created this sort of bilge, but actually reasonably young-adult-looking dudes speaking in a reasonable young adult manner. my countenance sagged into a slack-jawed delirious daze as i waded through the intense analysis of the so-called 'charlottesville zapruder' tapes. my head spins. i'm going to go mow the lawn now. perhaps later there'll be a kid i can order off it. or a cloud i can yell at.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 6:16 AM on August 30, 2017 [21 favorites]
i was cruising youtube last night when i discovered like umpteen cretins purveying a saga of left-wing double agents behind the Charlottesville violence, like, there are no actual nazi's, only crazed lefties impersonating nazis to make poor victimized conservatives look bad. and like, these people WERE NOT the horny acne-infested 12 year old golems i had always assumed created this sort of bilge, but actually reasonably young-adult-looking dudes speaking in a reasonable young adult manner. my countenance sagged into a slack-jawed delirious daze as i waded through the intense analysis of the so-called 'charlottesville zapruder' tapes. my head spins. i'm going to go mow the lawn now. perhaps later there'll be a kid i can order off it. or a cloud i can yell at.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 6:16 AM on August 30, 2017 [21 favorites]
these people WERE NOT the horny acne-infested 12 year old golems i had always assumed created this sort of bilge, but actually reasonably young-adult-looking dudes speaking in a reasonable young adult manner
stupid wears a thousand faces
posted by murphy slaw at 6:24 AM on August 30, 2017 [10 favorites]
stupid wears a thousand faces
posted by murphy slaw at 6:24 AM on August 30, 2017 [10 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump
The U.S. has been talking to North Korea, and paying them extortion money, for 25 years. Talking is not the answer!
Tweeting is the answer!
posted by Rykey at 6:24 AM on August 30, 2017 [9 favorites]
The U.S. has been talking to North Korea, and paying them extortion money, for 25 years. Talking is not the answer!
Tweeting is the answer!
posted by Rykey at 6:24 AM on August 30, 2017 [9 favorites]
No. There is an open primary, then the top 2 face off in the general.
It's probably better to think of it as just a two-stage election -- the first stage isn't really a primary in the way people usually think about them since it doesn't lead to a party nomination or party label. The way things work in CA is that each candidate picks the party they "prefer," and the party doesn't get a say in it. You could be a talibaptist klanner running on a platform of exterminating nonwhites and establishing a formal theocracy and if you say your preference is "Democratic," then it is and you appear on the ballot as a Democrat.
All candidates appear on the stage one ballot along with their party preference. The top two candidates go on to the general election on the usual date in November.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:27 AM on August 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
It's probably better to think of it as just a two-stage election -- the first stage isn't really a primary in the way people usually think about them since it doesn't lead to a party nomination or party label. The way things work in CA is that each candidate picks the party they "prefer," and the party doesn't get a say in it. You could be a talibaptist klanner running on a platform of exterminating nonwhites and establishing a formal theocracy and if you say your preference is "Democratic," then it is and you appear on the ballot as a Democrat.
All candidates appear on the stage one ballot along with their party preference. The top two candidates go on to the general election on the usual date in November.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:27 AM on August 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
The important thing is the Democratic structure is ready to cut off support for any serious challenger to Feinstein from the left. It's a career ending decision for an elected Democrat, and a de facto independent run for anyone else.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:34 AM on August 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:34 AM on August 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
Jesus fucking Christ, did the New York Times seriously give Erik Prince a spot in the Opinion section to talk about how Trump should appoint him Viceroy of Afghanistan? Disgusting.
posted by Copronymus at 6:39 AM on August 30, 2017 [43 favorites]
posted by Copronymus at 6:39 AM on August 30, 2017 [43 favorites]
A snippet from Philip Allen Lacovara, a former U.S. deputy solicitor general in the Justice Department who served as counsel to Watergate special prosecutors Archibald Cox and Leon Jaworski.
WaPo: How the pardon power could end Trump’s presidency
A good detailed summary on how federal pardons would most probably lead to state charges and potentially increase the likelihood of finding criminal wrongdoing.
posted by chris24 at 6:49 AM on August 30, 2017 [42 favorites]
WaPo: How the pardon power could end Trump’s presidency
While impeachment remains an unlikely political prospect at the moment, so it was during Watergate — until the “Saturday Night Massacre” dramatically changed the political landscape. A decision by Trump to pardon his close friends and associates for any complicity in colluding with a hostile foreign power could easily trigger a similar firestorm, with comparable political consequences.NBC: Presidential Pardons Might Not End Russia Prosecutions
But Trump should not ignore the potential criminal pitfalls of exercising his pardon power in this context. As with any other presidential power, the power to pardon is constrained by the ordinary requirements of federal law applicable to all public officials. For example, if representatives of a pardon-seeker arrived in the Oval Office with a bundle of cash that the president accepted in return for a pardon, there is little doubt that the president would be guilty of the crime of bribery.
More apt than bribery in the current context is the array of federal statutes that make it a crime to “obstruct justice.” Those statutes turn on the motive behind a person’s action, even if the person otherwise has the power to take the action. For example, under Section 1503 of the federal criminal code, any person who “corruptly . . . influences, obstructs, or impedes, or endeavors to influence, obstruct, or impede, the due administration of justice” commits a felony. If Trump were to pardon any of the figures in the current Russia investigation, his action would certainly impede or obstruct the due administration of justice, as the courts have broadly construed that standard.
It would not be difficult to imagine Mueller making the case that the motive behind such interference was “corrupt.” As the Founding Fathers made plain, the purpose behind the pardon power is to extend mercy to those who have offended and have demonstrated remorse. Using the pardon power to protect the president’s own interests against embarrassment or exposure is not legitimate. Rather, a crassly self-interested exercise of presidential power to impede the due administration of justice is the very antithesis of the president’s most solemn oath — “to take care that the laws be faithfully executed.”
A good detailed summary on how federal pardons would most probably lead to state charges and potentially increase the likelihood of finding criminal wrongdoing.
posted by chris24 at 6:49 AM on August 30, 2017 [42 favorites]
Remember 'don't be evil'?
Punctuation problem! It's "Don't. Be evil."
posted by kirkaracha at 6:49 AM on August 30, 2017 [8 favorites]
Why are white men so angry? (Washington Post) Again, moral of the story is that we'd better please those white men or else they're gonna keep embracing white supremacy.
If we had Fox and Friends in Westeros (Washington Post). Spoilers for GoT inside, if you care.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:52 AM on August 30, 2017 [12 favorites]
If we had Fox and Friends in Westeros (Washington Post). Spoilers for GoT inside, if you care.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:52 AM on August 30, 2017 [12 favorites]
President Trump formally launches his tax-reform drive this afternoon with a no-details, 'vision-casting' speech in Springfield, Missouri
Preview: Trump's tax speech: light on substance, heavy on populism
You won't learn anything new about the secretly-negotiated details of the Republican tax plan, when President Trump visits a manufacturing company in Springfield, Missouri....by putting in more loopholes that only benefit the wealthy and powerful few.
What you will learn is how Trump plans to sell the GOP tax plan, according to a taste of today's speech given by White House officials on a phone call Tuesday with reporters.
Between the lines: Even though Trump's early tax plans largely follow Republican orthodoxy — major, across-the-board tax cuts — he'll be selling it like Huey Long. The way White House officials tell it, Trump will describe how he'll "un-rig" the economy, resurrect "Main Street" and end "the special interest loopholes that have only benefited the wealthy and powerful few."
posted by kirkaracha at 6:56 AM on August 30, 2017 [9 favorites]
Why are white men so angry?
Holy shit is this a fuckload of white male racist sexist apologia. Sorry for the long quoting, but you really need to read this bullshit. The concluding paragraphs:
Holy shit is this a fuckload of white male racist sexist apologia. Sorry for the long quoting, but you really need to read this bullshit. The concluding paragraphs:
The key here is perceived disadvantage. These economic changes have affected virtually every demographic group in this country. In fact, other groups have suffered far greater real hardship than white men. But over the past few decades, white men have experienced the greatest psychological blow. [my bold] They worked hard to realize the American Dream, only to be told that their success was the result of “white privilege.” They never felt privileged.posted by chris24 at 7:02 AM on August 30, 2017 [20 favorites]
Even worse, they have confronted a shifting partisan landscape. While white workers were celebrated as the base of the New Deal coalition, since the 1970s, the modern Democratic Party has shifted its focus to identity politics and embraced the movements so loathed by white men. From their point of view, liberals have abandoned them, more interested in celebrating diversity and combating the economic struggles confronting minorities than in responding to their economic plight and protecting American values. Although they receive many benefits from government, they don’t see it that way. In their mind, their wages are declining and their jobs are disappearing, and yet Democrats want to take ever increasing amounts of their hard-earned money to support less deserving minorities.
White men believed the American culture they shaped and institutions they ran were fair and sound and drove our triumphs. They saw little reason to change a society that had served them so well. But now they find their value system under assault from all directions. They aren’t even sure what they can say without being branded racist or sexist, thanks to the reviled culture of political correctness. Many have responded to these challenges by embracing a toxic brew of resentment and victimization.
What unites the white working class, the sociologist Michael Kimmel has observed, is a sense of “aggrieved entitlement.” Polls show that more than any other demographic group, non-college educated whites feel abandoned by the government, fearful that their children’s lives will be worse than their own, resentful of immigrants and convinced that the nation’s growing racial and ethnic diversity will push them to the margins of society.
As the nation witnessed in Charlottesville, a handful of these angry white men have joined fringe movements that openly advocate violence and preach white supremacy. But they are a small minority. Millions more white men, however, feel the same anger, but refuse to be associated with extremist groups and retain some hope that the traditional parties — and the mainstream media — will acknowledge their grievances.
So how should the nation respond to their pleas? We must unequivocally condemn the hate-filled rhetoric and violent tactics of neo-Nazis and white supremacist groups. There can be no compromise or efforts to appease these groups. They must be crushed.
But we also need to address the underlying conditions that fuel white male resentment. That means having a balanced discussion about immigration that appreciates the many contribution that immigrants make to our nation while establishing clear, fair-minded limits on how many people can enter the United States. It means dramatically increased federal spending on infrastructure and on education to provide meaningful jobs now and the hope of better jobs in the future. It means rethinking government policy that contributes to income inequality. It also requires having difficult conversations with white men about their misperceptions about themselves.
There is a warning here for both parties. Democrats need to expand their concept of diversity to include white men and they need to stop dismissing them as racists. They should listen to the stories of people in economically decimated rural areas in Iowa and Wisconsin as well as traditionally Democratic cities like Philadelphia and San Francisco. At the same time, Republicans under Trump have become the party of cultural nostalgia. But all they offer are false promises and phony solutions that will do little to alleviate the underlying sources of white discontent. They need to take seriously the real challenges facing downwardly mobile whites and not just manipulate their fears to win election.
Until our political system finds a way to make angry white men less angry, our society will face more turmoil and violence.
From a ways upthread... nobody with any real knowledge of technology believes NK has a credible threat
People with real knowledge of this kind of technology tend not to be allowed to talk about it. Working on nuclear weapons usually requires security clearances, the terms of which include not revealing that you work on nuclear weapons, and not talking about what you have learned from working on nuclear weapons. Interested amateurs do not have access to all the information. So I would encourage everyone to resist the impulse to form strong opinions about North Korea's capabilities based only on what is known to the general public.
I would also remind people that if NK does not have the capacity right at this moment to threaten the US, they will almost certainly have it eventually. Because there is not much we can do to stop them developing it, as long as they hold the rest of the penninsula, at the very least, as hostages.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:04 AM on August 30, 2017 [8 favorites]
People with real knowledge of this kind of technology tend not to be allowed to talk about it. Working on nuclear weapons usually requires security clearances, the terms of which include not revealing that you work on nuclear weapons, and not talking about what you have learned from working on nuclear weapons. Interested amateurs do not have access to all the information. So I would encourage everyone to resist the impulse to form strong opinions about North Korea's capabilities based only on what is known to the general public.
I would also remind people that if NK does not have the capacity right at this moment to threaten the US, they will almost certainly have it eventually. Because there is not much we can do to stop them developing it, as long as they hold the rest of the penninsula, at the very least, as hostages.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:04 AM on August 30, 2017 [8 favorites]
nobody with any real knowledge of technology believes NK has a credible threat
Yeah I dunno. What I've read says: NK may or may not be able to put a nuclear warhead on the Hwasong-14 missile that is likely able to reach as far as the midwest. But the technology is more than 50 years old, and there's no reason to believe they won't get there soon, if they're not there already. That's not reassuring.
posted by dis_integration at 7:19 AM on August 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yeah I dunno. What I've read says: NK may or may not be able to put a nuclear warhead on the Hwasong-14 missile that is likely able to reach as far as the midwest. But the technology is more than 50 years old, and there's no reason to believe they won't get there soon, if they're not there already. That's not reassuring.
posted by dis_integration at 7:19 AM on August 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
My concern has shifted from "can NK do this" to "can the US/JAPAN stop an NK missile after it has been launched," since we apparently have badly misjudged NK's capabilities so far.
Even that concern is, however, dwarfed by the main problem: "will our president wake up pissy one morning and order a preemptive nuclear strike on NK?" Because 2017 is the year of the absurd.
posted by lydhre at 7:25 AM on August 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
Even that concern is, however, dwarfed by the main problem: "will our president wake up pissy one morning and order a preemptive nuclear strike on NK?" Because 2017 is the year of the absurd.
posted by lydhre at 7:25 AM on August 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
Yeah, I am not super worried about being hit by a missile fired by NK. I'm worried mostly that the US will use NK's foolish saber rattling to justify some kind of war for our own purposes and that this will prompt NK to attack Japan or SK, and also that we'll kill a bunch of North Koreans, as if they haven't suffered enough.
I have no particular objection to NK having some kind of nuclear thing, since it seems like they mostly want to be left alone and want it as a deterrent, and while it would be absolutely wonderful to have a better NK government, it's only too obvious that US-led "regime-changes" are murderous clusterfucks which just make things worse, so I think deterring one is the best of a bad set of options. I just wish NK would build the thing rather than firing a bunch of missiles at, like, Japan, because that is just going to lead to disaster.
posted by Frowner at 7:34 AM on August 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
I have no particular objection to NK having some kind of nuclear thing, since it seems like they mostly want to be left alone and want it as a deterrent, and while it would be absolutely wonderful to have a better NK government, it's only too obvious that US-led "regime-changes" are murderous clusterfucks which just make things worse, so I think deterring one is the best of a bad set of options. I just wish NK would build the thing rather than firing a bunch of missiles at, like, Japan, because that is just going to lead to disaster.
posted by Frowner at 7:34 AM on August 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
Regarding angry white men... I think Hillary Clinton actually got it exactly right in her infamous "basket of deplorable" comment. Trump's approval ratings have hovered around 40%. A lot of polling shows that around 20% of the population are genuine Confederate sympathizers. (21% say Jefferson Davis would be a better president than Barack Obama.17% either said they had no opinion on neo-Nazi views or said those views were acceptable to them.) This is about half the number of people who say they approve of Trump.
A little less than half of all Republicans say that white people face a lot of discrimination in America today - 43%. Since Trump has a bit less than 80% approval among Republicans, this is, again, probably about half of Trump's supporters.
But I think Clinton was also right when she said:
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:37 AM on August 30, 2017 [46 favorites]
A little less than half of all Republicans say that white people face a lot of discrimination in America today - 43%. Since Trump has a bit less than 80% approval among Republicans, this is, again, probably about half of Trump's supporters.
But I think Clinton was also right when she said:
But the other basket -- and I know this because I see friends from all over America here -- I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas -- as well as, you know, New York and California -- but that other basket of people are people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they're just desperate for change. It doesn't really even matter where it comes from. They don't buy everything he says, but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won't wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they're in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well."About 20% of Americans are Confederate sympathizers, and Putin saw the opportunity to boost that movement and undermine the American government. But that is only half of all Trump supporters. Not all of them. We have to be able to hold this idea in our minds. Half and half. Not all one thing.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:37 AM on August 30, 2017 [46 favorites]
But that is only half of all Trump supporters. Not all of them. We have to be able to hold this idea in our minds. Half and half. Not all one thing.
And yet, having access to exactly the same information about Trump and his Confederazi fanbase that we did, who did they choose to vote for? Nobody forced their hand. I have plenty of sympathy for people who want to see a change in the world, but at some point "Lie down with dogs, wake up with fleas" has to come into play.
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:44 AM on August 30, 2017 [29 favorites]
And yet, having access to exactly the same information about Trump and his Confederazi fanbase that we did, who did they choose to vote for? Nobody forced their hand. I have plenty of sympathy for people who want to see a change in the world, but at some point "Lie down with dogs, wake up with fleas" has to come into play.
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:44 AM on August 30, 2017 [29 favorites]
About 20% of Americans are Confederate sympathizers, ad Putin saw the opportunity to boost that movement and underine the Amercian government. But that is only half of all Trump supporters. Not all of them. We have to be able to hold this idea in our minds. Half and half. Not all one thing.
You are the company you keep.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:44 AM on August 30, 2017 [27 favorites]
You are the company you keep.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:44 AM on August 30, 2017 [27 favorites]
I'll maybe believe that half of Trump voters were not deplorable and fooled for other reasons. But now 8 months in and after he defended Nazis there's no more pretending. If you still support Trump now, you're one of the deplorables.
posted by chris24 at 7:45 AM on August 30, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 7:45 AM on August 30, 2017 [34 favorites]
And yet, having access to exactly the same information about Trump and his Confederazi fanbase that we did, who did they choose to vote for?
But they don't really have access to that information. They live in cultural and media bubbles.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:46 AM on August 30, 2017 [8 favorites]
But they don't really have access to that information. They live in cultural and media bubbles.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:46 AM on August 30, 2017 [8 favorites]
Dear god do I wish she'd called them what they are and not some cutesy name.
posted by Artw at 7:47 AM on August 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:47 AM on August 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
T.D. Strange: Republicans hate democracy. It's absolutely inarguable.
"We're not a democracy, we're a constitutional republic," shouts irate Florida man at U.S. history textbook subtitled "Our Democracy."
posted by filthy light thief at 7:49 AM on August 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
"We're not a democracy, we're a constitutional republic," shouts irate Florida man at U.S. history textbook subtitled "Our Democracy."
posted by filthy light thief at 7:49 AM on August 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
But they don't really have access to that information. They live in cultural and media bubbles.
Because they choose to watch news that confirms their heinous beliefs and says "don't worry, you're not racist." They reality shop to their worst instincts.
posted by chris24 at 7:49 AM on August 30, 2017 [17 favorites]
Because they choose to watch news that confirms their heinous beliefs and says "don't worry, you're not racist." They reality shop to their worst instincts.
posted by chris24 at 7:49 AM on August 30, 2017 [17 favorites]
Yeah, I don't buy the "we have to find a way to make white males happy" bullshit AT. ALL. These are grown men. At least physically. They need to finish growing the fuck up on the inside and swallow the fact that no, you can't always get what you want.
I had a longtime 'friend' tell me that people are prejudiced against him because he is a tall white male. According to him, they immediately assume he is racist & gun loving. I never got a straight answer on who exactly is doing all the assuming, but the bottom line is, maybe they do so BECAUSE HE IS RACIST AND LOVES GUNS.
Goddamn these people have no logic.
No one's parents are perfect. Learn some self care & self love and quit expecting the whole world to shoulder your bullshit.
posted by yoga at 7:51 AM on August 30, 2017 [47 favorites]
I had a longtime 'friend' tell me that people are prejudiced against him because he is a tall white male. According to him, they immediately assume he is racist & gun loving. I never got a straight answer on who exactly is doing all the assuming, but the bottom line is, maybe they do so BECAUSE HE IS RACIST AND LOVES GUNS.
Goddamn these people have no logic.
No one's parents are perfect. Learn some self care & self love and quit expecting the whole world to shoulder your bullshit.
posted by yoga at 7:51 AM on August 30, 2017 [47 favorites]
The open markets research group shut down by Google already has a new independent organization - https://citizensagainstmonopoly.org/
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:57 AM on August 30, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:57 AM on August 30, 2017 [11 favorites]
I always assumed "basket of deporables" was code for "bag of dicks".
If I have to hear about one more article analyzing the fee-fees of racist white dudes I will scream until blood comes out of my ears. Shut the fuck up, sit the fuck down, and grow the fuck up, or else fuck the fuck off. Bag of dicks indeed. I would prefer an actual bag of literal dicks.
posted by supercrayon at 7:57 AM on August 30, 2017 [143 favorites]
If I have to hear about one more article analyzing the fee-fees of racist white dudes I will scream until blood comes out of my ears. Shut the fuck up, sit the fuck down, and grow the fuck up, or else fuck the fuck off. Bag of dicks indeed. I would prefer an actual bag of literal dicks.
posted by supercrayon at 7:57 AM on August 30, 2017 [143 favorites]
supercrayon wins for most fantastic post of the year.
posted by yoga at 7:59 AM on August 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by yoga at 7:59 AM on August 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
FPP on the New America / Open Markets / Google thing.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:59 AM on August 30, 2017
posted by tonycpsu at 7:59 AM on August 30, 2017
I would prefer an actual bag of literal dicks.
Good news, everyone! (Probably NSFW)
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:59 AM on August 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
Good news, everyone! (Probably NSFW)
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:59 AM on August 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
Imagine Erik Prince, and his dudes, catching dogs in your neighborhood, if he were able to get that contract? China must have fired him from Africa.
posted by Oyéah at 8:03 AM on August 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Oyéah at 8:03 AM on August 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
"By the end of his first 100 days in office, it seemed,
seemed?? Are they on this planet?
...It was not clear if the president saw trade the way that Gary Cohn sees it or the way Steve Bannon sees it."
They still don't get it, do they. The president doesn't see trade or anything else.
posted by Melismata at 8:06 AM on August 30, 2017 [14 favorites]
seemed?? Are they on this planet?
...It was not clear if the president saw trade the way that Gary Cohn sees it or the way Steve Bannon sees it."
They still don't get it, do they. The president doesn't see trade or anything else.
posted by Melismata at 8:06 AM on August 30, 2017 [14 favorites]
Yeah, I don't buy the "we have to find a way to make white males happy" bullshit AT. ALL. These are grown men. At least physically. They need to finish growing the fuck up on the inside and swallow the fact that no, you can't always get what you want.
Here's the thing. There are different levels of needs.
These men need to grow up. They do. For their own personal development and for everyone around them, they need to grow up. But I can't make them. I have spent probably twenty years of my life trying to make white men grow up, in one form or another, from being an Army platoon sergeant to just fucking dating them to working with them in a civilian setting. I have come to the conclusion that the only way it will happen is one by one, sometimes, only partially, with years of work, if you have the power to fire or jail them. Short of that, you can't fucking make them because they straight up don't see the value in it.
Here's what I need: I need the country not to be on fire. I need stability for my family. I need ICE not to be rolling through schools, hospitals, and churches. I need people to be able to decide whether or not to go to a protest without having to calculating their chances of dying. I need to not be worried about us getting into a nuclear war with North Korea. I need states to stop testing unconstitutional bullshit just because Sessions is in charge.
So yeah, I'll compromise with the fucking terrorist man-children, because they don't care if they burn it all down and I do. I will make them goddamn happy, even though their entire lives have been about nothing but other people figuring out how to make them happy so they aren't shitty to other people. Because there really isn't another choice, when they have literally the entire country hostage, and the cost of giving them some fucking useless candy and telling them they're precious precious boys is nothing compared to the cost of them lashing out at racial, sexual, and gender minorities just because they Can.
posted by corb at 8:09 AM on August 30, 2017 [51 favorites]
Here's the thing. There are different levels of needs.
These men need to grow up. They do. For their own personal development and for everyone around them, they need to grow up. But I can't make them. I have spent probably twenty years of my life trying to make white men grow up, in one form or another, from being an Army platoon sergeant to just fucking dating them to working with them in a civilian setting. I have come to the conclusion that the only way it will happen is one by one, sometimes, only partially, with years of work, if you have the power to fire or jail them. Short of that, you can't fucking make them because they straight up don't see the value in it.
Here's what I need: I need the country not to be on fire. I need stability for my family. I need ICE not to be rolling through schools, hospitals, and churches. I need people to be able to decide whether or not to go to a protest without having to calculating their chances of dying. I need to not be worried about us getting into a nuclear war with North Korea. I need states to stop testing unconstitutional bullshit just because Sessions is in charge.
So yeah, I'll compromise with the fucking terrorist man-children, because they don't care if they burn it all down and I do. I will make them goddamn happy, even though their entire lives have been about nothing but other people figuring out how to make them happy so they aren't shitty to other people. Because there really isn't another choice, when they have literally the entire country hostage, and the cost of giving them some fucking useless candy and telling them they're precious precious boys is nothing compared to the cost of them lashing out at racial, sexual, and gender minorities just because they Can.
posted by corb at 8:09 AM on August 30, 2017 [51 favorites]
This shit's a hard sell when I was on my bike for literally 5 minutes this morning (after not having bike commuted for years) before my first shiny new pickup truck full of white men yelled obscenities at me as they passed. I am unconvinced that giving them what they want will do any good whatsoever, even from a pragmatic standpoint. They're still going to terrorize people because it's fun when you live a consequence-free life.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:15 AM on August 30, 2017 [86 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:15 AM on August 30, 2017 [86 favorites]
> So yeah, I'll compromise with the fucking terrorist man-children, because they don't care if they burn it all down and I do. I will make them goddamn happy, even though their entire lives have been about nothing but other people figuring out how to make them happy so they aren't shitty to other people. Because there really isn't another choice, when they have literally the entire country hostage, and the cost of giving them some fucking useless candy and telling them they're precious precious boys is nothing compared to the cost of them lashing out at racial, sexual, and gender minorities just because they Can.
They don't actually outnumber us, though, which means we can win without them. Furthermore, any attempts to placate them ("giv[e] them some fucking useless candy) has a high likelihood of turning off the voters we need to defeat them. I see no positive value in trying to hold on to a dwindling number of dead-enders when there's a hunger out there for policies that help make the lives of everyone better, not just those who define themselves as the only ones deserving of that assistance.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:18 AM on August 30, 2017 [39 favorites]
They don't actually outnumber us, though, which means we can win without them. Furthermore, any attempts to placate them ("giv[e] them some fucking useless candy) has a high likelihood of turning off the voters we need to defeat them. I see no positive value in trying to hold on to a dwindling number of dead-enders when there's a hunger out there for policies that help make the lives of everyone better, not just those who define themselves as the only ones deserving of that assistance.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:18 AM on August 30, 2017 [39 favorites]
chris24: journalist Dorothy Thompson - wife of Sinclair Lewis who had written It Can't Happen Here just a a few years earlier - was hauled off by police for laughing at the speakers.
Code Pink Protester laughed at Jeff Sessions and was charged with disorderly conduct after laughing during the introduction of Attorney General nominee Jeff Sessions -- some things never change indeed.
Worse, she was convicted! Luckily, a D.C. judge threw out Desiree Fairooz's conviction, but the judge called for a new trial, and a hearing date has been set for Sept. 1.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:19 AM on August 30, 2017 [29 favorites]
Code Pink Protester laughed at Jeff Sessions and was charged with disorderly conduct after laughing during the introduction of Attorney General nominee Jeff Sessions -- some things never change indeed.
Worse, she was convicted! Luckily, a D.C. judge threw out Desiree Fairooz's conviction, but the judge called for a new trial, and a hearing date has been set for Sept. 1.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:19 AM on August 30, 2017 [29 favorites]
(To be clear, corb, I use "we" as in "those of us who want to defeat the Nazis", not "those of us who favor progressive / redistributive policies", as I know you're on the former team but not the latter.)
posted by tonycpsu at 8:20 AM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 8:20 AM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
Until our political system finds a way to make angry white men less angry, our society will face more turmoil and violence.
My jaw dropped at that one, because really? This is a threat.
My instinctual response to a threat is "So you think I'm going to cower to you? TRY AGAIN." However, that's only when I've been personally threatened with violence. I'm always ready to defend my own self. But I'm not sure how I'm supposed to respond to such that's writ so large and towards a whole nation of people.
posted by droplet at 8:26 AM on August 30, 2017 [18 favorites]
My jaw dropped at that one, because really? This is a threat.
My instinctual response to a threat is "So you think I'm going to cower to you? TRY AGAIN." However, that's only when I've been personally threatened with violence. I'm always ready to defend my own self. But I'm not sure how I'm supposed to respond to such that's writ so large and towards a whole nation of people.
posted by droplet at 8:26 AM on August 30, 2017 [18 favorites]
the cost of giving them some fucking useless candy and telling them they're precious precious boys is nothing compared to the cost of them lashing out at racial, sexual, and gender minorities just because they Can.
I respectfully disagree. We need to stand up to these assholes, not enable them. That's what got us here in the first fucking place.
posted by yoga at 8:29 AM on August 30, 2017 [38 favorites]
I respectfully disagree. We need to stand up to these assholes, not enable them. That's what got us here in the first fucking place.
posted by yoga at 8:29 AM on August 30, 2017 [38 favorites]
So, we all know Trump loves publicity, and he's fixated on some "ratings" that he thinks are high for him. Jimmy Kimmel suggested making Trump the first King of America, then lock him in a castle in Florida, and plenty of folks have suggested Trump get a dummy Twitter app that's really just a closed world with AI to fawn over his every twat. But why not give trump a dummy reality, a la The Truman Show? I'm sure there are some movie sets that are big enough that he can get lost in there, and surround him with extras to pretend he's still the president, and it'd probably cost less than his current activities. Meanwhile we can get on and impeach him, or just consider him missing in action and let Pence take over until the 2018 elections, and we can wipe the board with Dems and move towards repairing everything Trump as ruined with his touch.
Well, that'll be my daydream for the next week, if nothing else.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:30 AM on August 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
Well, that'll be my daydream for the next week, if nothing else.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:30 AM on August 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
Because there really isn't another choice, when they have literally the entire country hostage, and the cost of giving them some fucking useless candy and telling them they're precious precious boys is nothing compared to the cost of them lashing out at racial, sexual, and gender minorities just because they Can.
I've yet to see any evidence that lack of getting this "candy" has any causal relationship with their "lashing out." They lash out no matter what we do. Why would we believe them when they say that would make them stop?
posted by melissasaurus at 8:31 AM on August 30, 2017 [26 favorites]
I've yet to see any evidence that lack of getting this "candy" has any causal relationship with their "lashing out." They lash out no matter what we do. Why would we believe them when they say that would make them stop?
posted by melissasaurus at 8:31 AM on August 30, 2017 [26 favorites]
My thought is that policies and speeches which directly address white people and which offer real solutions will peel off the white people who are only ignorant or desperate from the ones who enjoy racism. You don't need many. I think that it could be done by addressing people's non-racial communities - rural areas, small towns, counties, communities hit by the opioid crisis, deindustrialized areas. Say "farmers are valuable and we're going to do thus and so" or "towns which have lost industry are important and need more than just 'retraining', and we're going to do this thing" - speak to white people through their positive identities, and through identities which don't separate them from people of color, since small towns and farm communities,
etc, are multiracial places.
A lot of people are committed to racism, and they're going to stay racist no matter what you say. But I think that at least some other people have the potential to think and feel in new ways, and are prevented by ignorance, segregation and lack of positive ways to move. We don't need to win 100% of the white racists, we just need the whatever, 5 or 10 percent who are unconsciously yearning for something else, or consciously yearning for it but think it's not possible.
posted by Frowner at 8:31 AM on August 30, 2017 [35 favorites]
etc, are multiracial places.
A lot of people are committed to racism, and they're going to stay racist no matter what you say. But I think that at least some other people have the potential to think and feel in new ways, and are prevented by ignorance, segregation and lack of positive ways to move. We don't need to win 100% of the white racists, we just need the whatever, 5 or 10 percent who are unconsciously yearning for something else, or consciously yearning for it but think it's not possible.
posted by Frowner at 8:31 AM on August 30, 2017 [35 favorites]
there's a hunger out there for policies that help make the lives of everyone better
That's just it. I wish there was a way to get it through the thick skulls of racists and neo-Nazis that the policies liberal Democrats want to implement will benefit everyone. Things like single-payer health care, full employment, universal basic income - we all, whatever the race, creed or gender - stand to benefit. We're all Americans, and all in this together.
I think repellent ideologies are made, not inborn, and while it will probably take a lot of time and patience to undo them, progress has been made before. Women have the vote and can get credit in our own names . Slavery is illegal and so are Jim Crow laws. Same-sex marriage is increasingly legal and accepted, marijuana is legal at least for medical purposes in more and more states. All this was not accomplished by people throwing up their hands and saying "welp. Human nature, nothing we can do." (One big reason why I think evolutionary psychology is not only wrong-headed, but dangerous - it saps and subverts the will to change and improve.)
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 8:31 AM on August 30, 2017 [31 favorites]
That's just it. I wish there was a way to get it through the thick skulls of racists and neo-Nazis that the policies liberal Democrats want to implement will benefit everyone. Things like single-payer health care, full employment, universal basic income - we all, whatever the race, creed or gender - stand to benefit. We're all Americans, and all in this together.
I think repellent ideologies are made, not inborn, and while it will probably take a lot of time and patience to undo them, progress has been made before. Women have the vote and can get credit in our own names . Slavery is illegal and so are Jim Crow laws. Same-sex marriage is increasingly legal and accepted, marijuana is legal at least for medical purposes in more and more states. All this was not accomplished by people throwing up their hands and saying "welp. Human nature, nothing we can do." (One big reason why I think evolutionary psychology is not only wrong-headed, but dangerous - it saps and subverts the will to change and improve.)
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 8:31 AM on August 30, 2017 [31 favorites]
Hey, looks like Ivanka has stopped pretending with the "we tried to get him to do the right thing" leaks and embraced awfulness.
Newsweek: IVANKA BACKS TRUMP ADMINISTRATION'S PLAN TO SCRAP OBAMA RULES PREVENTING PAY DISCRIMINATION
Newsweek: IVANKA BACKS TRUMP ADMINISTRATION'S PLAN TO SCRAP OBAMA RULES PREVENTING PAY DISCRIMINATION
Ivanka Trump who, with her husband Jared Kushner, had been the hope of moderates trying to gain influence in the White House, has backed the scrapping of the initiative. While she has pushed for equal pay for women, Ivanka said in a statement the policy would not lead to pay equality.posted by chris24 at 8:32 AM on August 30, 2017 [25 favorites]
“Ultimately, while I believe the intention was good and agree that pay transparency is important, the proposed policy would not yield the intended results,”Ivanka said in a statement. “We look forward to continuing to work with EEOC, [the Office of Management and Budget], Congress and all relevant stakeholders on robust policies aimed at eliminating the gender wage gap,” she added.
Proponents of the Obama-era plan have defended it on the grounds that it would have created an evidence-based foundation on which to address pay discrimination.
“We’d learn about a pay-discrimination problem because someone saw a piece of paper left on a copy machine or someone was complaining about their salary to co-workers,” Jenny Yang, chairwoman of the EEOC said when the rules were drafted. “Having pay data in summary form will also help us identify patterns that may warrant further investigation,” she added at a June conference.
That's just it. I wish there was a way to get it through the thick skulls of racists and neo-Nazis that the policies liberal Democrats want to implement will benefit everyone. Things like single-payer health care, full employment, universal basic income - we all, whatever the race, creed or gender - stand to benefit. We're all Americans, and all in this together.
The problem is that THEY DON'T CARE. They'd much rather be kings of their little shit pile than share the wealth/health/happiness with the rest of us.
posted by lydhre at 8:34 AM on August 30, 2017 [34 favorites]
The problem is that THEY DON'T CARE. They'd much rather be kings of their little shit pile than share the wealth/health/happiness with the rest of us.
posted by lydhre at 8:34 AM on August 30, 2017 [34 favorites]
corb, I think you assume that stability is still on the table. That we can find some way to appease the abuser, and then maybe it won't be so bad. But there isn't. Whether they abuse us has nothing to do with us; it's them. There will always be something to be angry about. But being angry isn't the problem; the belief that they're entitled to take that anger out in the rest of is the problem.
Your argument is the one that keeps us locked in a family with an abuser. It might keep you safe for a day or a week or whatever, but that's just marking time until the next time they hurt you. And in the meantime, maybe there are other members of the family who are still getting the brunt of the abuse, even while you or I get a break. For immigrant populations or over policed black communities, there's been no break at all. (If you haven't seen Ava Duvernay's 13th, you should.)
I think "good enough" stability is an illusion, at this point. And I know that your frame of reference is different; I know that for the majority of Americans, things aren't that bad yet. But for a good number, they absolutely are. And the rest of us are becoming aware of that fact. And we're becoming aware of it because the danger is coming ever closer to where we are; because the abuser is escalating; because the abuse is becoming more frequent.
I keep thinking about that Lincoln (maybe?) quote that someone posted a while back, about how the only thing that would appease the Southerner would be if the North would fully sing the praises of slavery, or something. That this Confederate patriarchal fucking demon that lives in this country perceived anything other than adulation and agreement as an attack; that the people who hold these views are so insecure, so imprisoned by their own inability to confront their own moral failings, that they live in a paranoid fantasy land composed entirely of a projection of their own fears and desires. You cannot reason with someone like that, because they do not accept the premise of a shared reality or shared values.
We're trapped in the house with an abusive monster. I don't think we can appease it without enabling it, making it stronger. And even if we could, we can't abandon those of us who are the abuser's scapegoats and chosen targets.
There are no good choices here. But allowing the abuse to continue turns us into something I don't want to be.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:36 AM on August 30, 2017 [89 favorites]
Your argument is the one that keeps us locked in a family with an abuser. It might keep you safe for a day or a week or whatever, but that's just marking time until the next time they hurt you. And in the meantime, maybe there are other members of the family who are still getting the brunt of the abuse, even while you or I get a break. For immigrant populations or over policed black communities, there's been no break at all. (If you haven't seen Ava Duvernay's 13th, you should.)
I think "good enough" stability is an illusion, at this point. And I know that your frame of reference is different; I know that for the majority of Americans, things aren't that bad yet. But for a good number, they absolutely are. And the rest of us are becoming aware of that fact. And we're becoming aware of it because the danger is coming ever closer to where we are; because the abuser is escalating; because the abuse is becoming more frequent.
I keep thinking about that Lincoln (maybe?) quote that someone posted a while back, about how the only thing that would appease the Southerner would be if the North would fully sing the praises of slavery, or something. That this Confederate patriarchal fucking demon that lives in this country perceived anything other than adulation and agreement as an attack; that the people who hold these views are so insecure, so imprisoned by their own inability to confront their own moral failings, that they live in a paranoid fantasy land composed entirely of a projection of their own fears and desires. You cannot reason with someone like that, because they do not accept the premise of a shared reality or shared values.
We're trapped in the house with an abusive monster. I don't think we can appease it without enabling it, making it stronger. And even if we could, we can't abandon those of us who are the abuser's scapegoats and chosen targets.
There are no good choices here. But allowing the abuse to continue turns us into something I don't want to be.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:36 AM on August 30, 2017 [89 favorites]
You cannot convince a racist that your policies are better because they help everyone, when they know that everyone includes people they don't like.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 8:36 AM on August 30, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 8:36 AM on August 30, 2017 [22 favorites]
"the party of cultural nostalgia" What, is this the party of slapping your wife, when things go bad at work, and occasionally lynching someone of the wrong color, who wanders into your neighborhood? Or is this the party that makes sure only well off white kids populate the school's play? Or is this the party of drowned poor girls who made the mistake of getting pregnant by yer precious little boys? What the hell nostalgia are they talking about? The party of talking like repulsive pigs, when women and girls pass by? What the fuck good old days are they missing? I am not paying for these days to return. I am not paying for the border wall either, and I am not paying some ass to make money on self aggrandizing hats while serving as POTUS.
posted by Oyéah at 8:37 AM on August 30, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 8:37 AM on August 30, 2017 [32 favorites]
“Ultimately, while I believe the intention was good and agree that pay transparency is important, the proposed policy would not yield the intended results.”
Yes, open books where everyone can see how you've been shafting women and minorities in your workplace will never work. Best course of action is to ask CEOs pretty please and appeal to their better natures. That's how we got minimum wage laws, right?
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 8:38 AM on August 30, 2017 [17 favorites]
Yes, open books where everyone can see how you've been shafting women and minorities in your workplace will never work. Best course of action is to ask CEOs pretty please and appeal to their better natures. That's how we got minimum wage laws, right?
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 8:38 AM on August 30, 2017 [17 favorites]
Slate (yeah, I know) has a better read on Mattis's reaction to the transgender ban. Long story short: he's not freezing anything, he's not going against the order at all, and at the very least it's way too early to get hopes up.
As I've said before, it's way too easy to project one's own hopes and goals onto Mattis. Hell, now I've done it, too. The truth is you can read his actions and his words as either pro-Trump or damage control or critical of Trump all you want and none of that necessarily means you're right.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:39 AM on August 30, 2017 [10 favorites]
As I've said before, it's way too easy to project one's own hopes and goals onto Mattis. Hell, now I've done it, too. The truth is you can read his actions and his words as either pro-Trump or damage control or critical of Trump all you want and none of that necessarily means you're right.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:39 AM on August 30, 2017 [10 favorites]
Also, this just in: the continued insistence that we must capitulate, accommodate, and compromise with white supremacists is the barrier that protects white supremacists from being overwhelmed and driven off a cliff altogether.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 8:43 AM on August 30, 2017 [45 favorites]
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 8:43 AM on August 30, 2017 [45 favorites]
Slate (yeah, I know) has a better read on Mattis's reaction to the transgender ban. Long story short: he's not freezing anything, he's not going against the order at all, and at the very least it's way too early to get hopes up.
Slate really, really needs to cite its fucking sources on this one. They say, "Mattis’ new “study,” by contrast, will almost certainly provide some pseudo-factual cover for the trans ban", but the basis of nothing but their own opinion is not nearly enough for a journalist to write the words "almost certainly."
posted by corb at 8:44 AM on August 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
Slate really, really needs to cite its fucking sources on this one. They say, "Mattis’ new “study,” by contrast, will almost certainly provide some pseudo-factual cover for the trans ban", but the basis of nothing but their own opinion is not nearly enough for a journalist to write the words "almost certainly."
posted by corb at 8:44 AM on August 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump: The U.S. has been talking to North Korea, and paying them extortion money, for 25 years. Talking is not the answer!
@barbarastarrcnn
Defense Secretary James Mattis this morning at the Pentagon:
“No, we are never out of diplomatic solutions"
---
Mattis most likely isn't going against the trans ban, but he seems to be contradicting Trump pretty directly here.
posted by chris24 at 8:46 AM on August 30, 2017 [14 favorites]
@barbarastarrcnn
Defense Secretary James Mattis this morning at the Pentagon:
“No, we are never out of diplomatic solutions"
---
Mattis most likely isn't going against the trans ban, but he seems to be contradicting Trump pretty directly here.
posted by chris24 at 8:46 AM on August 30, 2017 [14 favorites]
This argument always comes up: progressive policies would help everyone, we just need to convince Trump (or whomever) voters to stop voting against their own interests.
Trouble is, white supremacy is one of their interests. And they've demonstrated that they are willing to sacrifice other things they want or need or could get at the altar of white supremacy. Why else do you think white women voted for Trump en masse, regardless of his obvious misogyny and sexual assault? Their white identity subsumes all else. Whiteness is the ultimate identity politics.
And while pandering to whiteness may temporarily get us back to the status quo (though I have my doubts about even that), the status quo wasn't that great either. And they will continue to hold us hostage, over and over and over again.
posted by Ragini at 8:46 AM on August 30, 2017 [51 favorites]
Trouble is, white supremacy is one of their interests. And they've demonstrated that they are willing to sacrifice other things they want or need or could get at the altar of white supremacy. Why else do you think white women voted for Trump en masse, regardless of his obvious misogyny and sexual assault? Their white identity subsumes all else. Whiteness is the ultimate identity politics.
And while pandering to whiteness may temporarily get us back to the status quo (though I have my doubts about even that), the status quo wasn't that great either. And they will continue to hold us hostage, over and over and over again.
posted by Ragini at 8:46 AM on August 30, 2017 [51 favorites]
there's a hunger out there for policies that help make the lives of everyone better
... except that white men generally want their "better" to be better than everyone else's better.
posted by hanov3r at 8:49 AM on August 30, 2017 [18 favorites]
... except that white men generally want their "better" to be better than everyone else's better.
posted by hanov3r at 8:49 AM on August 30, 2017 [18 favorites]
I wish there was a way to get it through the thick skulls of racists and neo-Nazis that the policies liberal Democrats want to implement will benefit everyone. Things like single-payer health care, full employment, universal basic income - we all, whatever the race, creed or gender - stand to benefit.
It would help if these were policies the Democratic party actually wants to implement. Nothing good will come from catering to Trump voters but Frowner's comment is spot on: there are a lot of populist economic policies that would cater to people living in Trump voting areas (and, of course, other areas too), that would make their lives better. Liberals have to avoid the trap of ignoring the legitimate grievances of people in thrall to a movement indulging their worst impulses.
posted by LarsC at 8:50 AM on August 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
It would help if these were policies the Democratic party actually wants to implement. Nothing good will come from catering to Trump voters but Frowner's comment is spot on: there are a lot of populist economic policies that would cater to people living in Trump voting areas (and, of course, other areas too), that would make their lives better. Liberals have to avoid the trap of ignoring the legitimate grievances of people in thrall to a movement indulging their worst impulses.
posted by LarsC at 8:50 AM on August 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
> I think that it could be done by addressing people's non-racial communities - rural areas, small towns, counties, communities hit by the opioid crisis, deindustrialized areas.
By what logic are these defined as "non-racial communities?" Rural areas (as defined by the US Census) are 78% white, as compared to 58% in metropolitan areas (source).
Meanwhile, the opioid crisis has disproportionately affected whites, which has led to some very tough questions about why this particular crisis is being treated differently than others.
These are all categories that might not be defined in racial terms, but have a clear racial component to them, so it seems very dangerous to provide special treatment for people dealing with these problems than is given to folks living elsewhere, who might be have different factors preventing them from finding work or different drugs they might be addicted to.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:56 AM on August 30, 2017 [15 favorites]
By what logic are these defined as "non-racial communities?" Rural areas (as defined by the US Census) are 78% white, as compared to 58% in metropolitan areas (source).
Meanwhile, the opioid crisis has disproportionately affected whites, which has led to some very tough questions about why this particular crisis is being treated differently than others.
These are all categories that might not be defined in racial terms, but have a clear racial component to them, so it seems very dangerous to provide special treatment for people dealing with these problems than is given to folks living elsewhere, who might be have different factors preventing them from finding work or different drugs they might be addicted to.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:56 AM on August 30, 2017 [15 favorites]
People for whom success is a zero-sum game will never think "helping everyone" is a good idea.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:02 AM on August 30, 2017 [65 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:02 AM on August 30, 2017 [65 favorites]
Things like single-payer health care, full employment, universal basic income - we all, whatever the race, creed or gender - stand to benefit. We're all Americans, and all in this together.
There is no viable political organization promising any of those things. Except maybe full employment, which by current definition isn't helping anyone, them included.
posted by FakeFreyja at 9:04 AM on August 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
There is no viable political organization promising any of those things. Except maybe full employment, which by current definition isn't helping anyone, them included.
posted by FakeFreyja at 9:04 AM on August 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
> "We're not a democracy, we're a constitutional republic," shouts irate Florida man at U.S. history textbook subtitled "Our Democracy."Which incidentally is also the mantra of the slashdot*/"Hacker" "News"/Reddit technolibertarian** bro crowd.
* abbreviation for "what's left of former slashdot"
** [sic] implied
posted by runcifex at 9:07 AM on August 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
so it seems very dangerous to provide special treatment for people dealing with these problems than is given to folks living elsewhere
But there's a big difference between "special treatment" and solutions that work for a particular problem. I mean, you could dish out farm subsidies all down my street and it wouldn't help us because we don't have farms, and similarly, you can't build city-to-city light rail connecting a hundred towns of three hundred each.
My point about these being "non-racial" communities was badly phrased, but it was intended to highlight the way that non-rural, non-small-town white people often think that rural areas and small towns are entirely white, and forget about the many people of color who live outside cities. Policies that help farmers and small towns are believed to be policies that can only help white people, but this is not in fact the case, as long as you make sure the policies themselves don't target white farmers, etc.
Again, I'm not saying "let's try to pull racist white people in through special treatment", I'm saying "let's address the legit grievances of rural, deindustrialized and small town communities with a view to winning over the white people who are not hard-core committed to racism".
In my political life, I have noticed that people of all stripes make a similar mistake - considering the opposition to be one united, ideologically coherent group with shared goals rather than a collection of different groups with different histories and interests. So, eg, the right doesn't understand the difference between, like, Diane Feinstein and the DSA, and the left tends to assume that everyone on the right is equally committed to right wing views and comes to them from the same place.
The point is to break apart the coalitions of the opposition, either by setting them at each other's throats or by finding the ones that can be drawn away from the opposition without compromising your own beliefs.
posted by Frowner at 9:10 AM on August 30, 2017 [44 favorites]
But there's a big difference between "special treatment" and solutions that work for a particular problem. I mean, you could dish out farm subsidies all down my street and it wouldn't help us because we don't have farms, and similarly, you can't build city-to-city light rail connecting a hundred towns of three hundred each.
My point about these being "non-racial" communities was badly phrased, but it was intended to highlight the way that non-rural, non-small-town white people often think that rural areas and small towns are entirely white, and forget about the many people of color who live outside cities. Policies that help farmers and small towns are believed to be policies that can only help white people, but this is not in fact the case, as long as you make sure the policies themselves don't target white farmers, etc.
Again, I'm not saying "let's try to pull racist white people in through special treatment", I'm saying "let's address the legit grievances of rural, deindustrialized and small town communities with a view to winning over the white people who are not hard-core committed to racism".
In my political life, I have noticed that people of all stripes make a similar mistake - considering the opposition to be one united, ideologically coherent group with shared goals rather than a collection of different groups with different histories and interests. So, eg, the right doesn't understand the difference between, like, Diane Feinstein and the DSA, and the left tends to assume that everyone on the right is equally committed to right wing views and comes to them from the same place.
The point is to break apart the coalitions of the opposition, either by setting them at each other's throats or by finding the ones that can be drawn away from the opposition without compromising your own beliefs.
posted by Frowner at 9:10 AM on August 30, 2017 [44 favorites]
> Policies that help farmers and small towns are believed to be policies that can only help white people, but this is not in fact the case, as long as you make sure the policies themselves don't target white farmers, etc.
This idea that the effect of a policy can have a racially disparate impact as long as it's not explicitly targeting people based on their race is the exact same logic conservatives use to say that their electoral maps are non-discriminatory.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:19 AM on August 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
This idea that the effect of a policy can have a racially disparate impact as long as it's not explicitly targeting people based on their race is the exact same logic conservatives use to say that their electoral maps are non-discriminatory.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:19 AM on August 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
Eek, clicked post by accident before I was done responding.
> The point is to break apart the coalitions of the opposition, either by setting them at each other's throats or by finding the ones that can be drawn away from the opposition without compromising your own beliefs.
Yeah, I'm all about this strategy, but I don't think you're acknowledging the downside risk, as noted in the links I cited re: the opioid crisis. Communities of color who were victimized by the war on drugs are now seeing the drug users being treated as the victims, and I worry that all of these special programs targeted (directly or indirectly) to win these Trump voters will end up in a "win the battle, lose the war" dynamic where we get some of them at the expense of so many others who are more natural fits for the Democratic message.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:23 AM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
> The point is to break apart the coalitions of the opposition, either by setting them at each other's throats or by finding the ones that can be drawn away from the opposition without compromising your own beliefs.
Yeah, I'm all about this strategy, but I don't think you're acknowledging the downside risk, as noted in the links I cited re: the opioid crisis. Communities of color who were victimized by the war on drugs are now seeing the drug users being treated as the victims, and I worry that all of these special programs targeted (directly or indirectly) to win these Trump voters will end up in a "win the battle, lose the war" dynamic where we get some of them at the expense of so many others who are more natural fits for the Democratic message.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:23 AM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
others who are more natural fits for the Democratic message.
And what is that? Explicitly I mean.
posted by FakeFreyja at 9:26 AM on August 30, 2017
And what is that? Explicitly I mean.
posted by FakeFreyja at 9:26 AM on August 30, 2017
Yeah, but conservatives are trying to create racially disparate results. Saying "let's build rural internet, let's fix roads, let's develop medical policies that deal with the challenges of rural life and the lack of doctors, let's create support for farmworkers" isn't about trying to sneak in racially disparate results, it's about creating resources that benefit everyone but that are uniquely tailored to spread-out, impoverished and de-industrialized communities dependent on farm-related stuff rather than tailored to crowded, sweatshop-work and retail communities dependent on a wealthy urban core.
It is so weird to me that people seem to be all "rural areas have exactly the same problems as cities, and we should fix them using exactly the same policies". In my urban area, for instance, there are lots of doctors but people can't afford them. In outstate MN, people can't afford doctors - and there aren't any. There are literally about twenty places for me to get dental care within three miles of my house. In rural MN, there are plenty of places where you have to drive for an hour. So the problem in rural MN isn't just getting insurance - it's getting doctors and dentists who are willing to live and work out there. And that's just one example.
posted by Frowner at 9:27 AM on August 30, 2017 [27 favorites]
It is so weird to me that people seem to be all "rural areas have exactly the same problems as cities, and we should fix them using exactly the same policies". In my urban area, for instance, there are lots of doctors but people can't afford them. In outstate MN, people can't afford doctors - and there aren't any. There are literally about twenty places for me to get dental care within three miles of my house. In rural MN, there are plenty of places where you have to drive for an hour. So the problem in rural MN isn't just getting insurance - it's getting doctors and dentists who are willing to live and work out there. And that's just one example.
posted by Frowner at 9:27 AM on August 30, 2017 [27 favorites]
So, Trump wasn't literally jealous of Hurricane Harvey, but attracted to the heavy media attention it was getting, right? Like an insect at night attracted to a light?
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:28 AM on August 30, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:28 AM on August 30, 2017 [16 favorites]
let's build rural internet
This would be huge in a lot of ways, too. Just think of how many of us get our information from a broad and wide internet, whereas a lot of rural people do not. My mother-in-law, before she passed, had only the most rudimentary familiarity with the internet, even though she had access to it, because rural access where she lived was slow and expensive. Consequentially, she got way more of her news from TV/cable, which you can get out there easily.
So you have people being more connected to the world - which, exposure builds tolerance as well - and feeling like at last someone is beginning to address their problems, rather than "city elites don't care about us". It's a win for everyone.
posted by corb at 9:31 AM on August 30, 2017 [17 favorites]
This would be huge in a lot of ways, too. Just think of how many of us get our information from a broad and wide internet, whereas a lot of rural people do not. My mother-in-law, before she passed, had only the most rudimentary familiarity with the internet, even though she had access to it, because rural access where she lived was slow and expensive. Consequentially, she got way more of her news from TV/cable, which you can get out there easily.
So you have people being more connected to the world - which, exposure builds tolerance as well - and feeling like at last someone is beginning to address their problems, rather than "city elites don't care about us". It's a win for everyone.
posted by corb at 9:31 AM on August 30, 2017 [17 favorites]
> It is so weird to me that people seem to be all "rural areas have exactly the same problems as cities, and we should fix them using exactly the same policies"
Who is saying this? I'm certainly not. The problems are different, but the history of the US from the formation of the Post Office to present day is that the rural and suburban areas get an outsized amount of the help, because we have a lot of land, and have decided that everyone has a right to certain services regardless of where they choose to live. That's fine, but for everything you can point to like rural broadband and difficulty finding doctors (my parents live in a rural area so I'm well acquainted with these problems) I can point to three other problems that urban areas have that are at least as difficult to manage but the federal government isn't trying to assist with, and in fact has generally been opposed to.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:33 AM on August 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
Who is saying this? I'm certainly not. The problems are different, but the history of the US from the formation of the Post Office to present day is that the rural and suburban areas get an outsized amount of the help, because we have a lot of land, and have decided that everyone has a right to certain services regardless of where they choose to live. That's fine, but for everything you can point to like rural broadband and difficulty finding doctors (my parents live in a rural area so I'm well acquainted with these problems) I can point to three other problems that urban areas have that are at least as difficult to manage but the federal government isn't trying to assist with, and in fact has generally been opposed to.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:33 AM on August 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
lydhre: "The problem is that THEY DON'T CARE. They'd much rather be kings of their little shit pile than share the wealth/health/happiness with the rest of us."
Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:34 AM on August 30, 2017 [12 favorites]
Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:34 AM on August 30, 2017 [12 favorites]
So you have people being more connected to the world - which, exposure builds tolerance as well - and feeling like at last someone is beginning to address their problems, rather than "city elites don't care about us".
which is, of course, why the internet is known for being a peaceful place of tolerance
posted by entropicamericana at 9:37 AM on August 30, 2017 [10 favorites]
which is, of course, why the internet is known for being a peaceful place of tolerance
posted by entropicamericana at 9:37 AM on August 30, 2017 [10 favorites]
Until our political system finds a way to make angry white men less angry, our society will face more turmoil and violence.
My jaw dropped at that one, because really? This is a threat.
This. There's exactly one way—decreasing anger among white men who are angry for fucked up reasons, and like it that way—to prevent large-scale "turmoil and violence?" What the fuck?!
posted by Rykey at 9:37 AM on August 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
My jaw dropped at that one, because really? This is a threat.
This. There's exactly one way—decreasing anger among white men who are angry for fucked up reasons, and like it that way—to prevent large-scale "turmoil and violence?" What the fuck?!
posted by Rykey at 9:37 AM on August 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
>>others who are more natural fits for the Democratic message.
>And what is that? Explicitly I mean.
abortions for some, minature american flags for others
posted by entropicamericana at 9:39 AM on August 30, 2017 [9 favorites]
>And what is that? Explicitly I mean.
abortions for some, minature american flags for others
posted by entropicamericana at 9:39 AM on August 30, 2017 [9 favorites]
The Kodos and Kang thing has not aged well. It's like the ur-story of the Both Sides Are the Same crowd. (Ok, it's really old at this point so they're probably more into South Park's Turd Sandwich -vs- Giant Douche but same idea.)
posted by Justinian at 9:42 AM on August 30, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 9:42 AM on August 30, 2017 [16 favorites]
I could go for a nice old-fashioned Nude Conspiracy right about now.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:43 AM on August 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:43 AM on August 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
IVANKA BACKS TRUMP ADMINISTRATION'S PLAN TO SCRAP OBAMA RULES PREVENTING PAY DISCRIMINATION
It's like they say, you either quit having achieved nothing, or stay long enough to see yourself achieve the exact opposite of what you claimed to have been attempting to achieve
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:46 AM on August 30, 2017 [18 favorites]
It's like they say, you either quit having achieved nothing, or stay long enough to see yourself achieve the exact opposite of what you claimed to have been attempting to achieve
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:46 AM on August 30, 2017 [18 favorites]
Robert Reich has put together a nice 3-minute long video primer about what a pre-election Putin/trump quid-pro-quo deal likely would have entailed and the steps trump has taken so far to fulfill his ostensible end of the bargain.
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:48 AM on August 30, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:48 AM on August 30, 2017 [11 favorites]
Debt ceiling theorizing:
One of the new leading theories among Senate and House Republicans in Washington is that Congress will combine a three-month stopgap spending bill to keep the government open, the first installment of hurricane relief for Texas and Louisiana and an increase of the federal debt limit. The idea is this package would create an undefeatable constituency across the Capitol. [Politico]posted by Chrysostom at 9:49 AM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
I recently joined a makerspace that is about 85% (urban-dwelling, mostly well-educated, fairly privileged, extremely geeky) white dudes. I'm usually the only woman there. It's been quite the anthropological study of toxic masculinity, and it really does mostly look like these guys just want to be angry. It's the only emotion they ever learned how to work with. It's fun and interesting and if you perform it right it lets all the other dudes know that you're King Dude. There is so much goddamn drama in that building (and the email list), non-stop, all the time, because not one of those guys can just let something go. When the fork in the road says ---Let It Go | Beat Chest --- they always turn hard right.
So, I remain skeptical that handing out cookies will make any of these guys less angry all the damn time. They need to learn some emotional intelligence, or at least learn that they aren't the majority and the majority doesn't care for their whargarbl so please take it elsewhere.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:54 AM on August 30, 2017 [87 favorites]
So, I remain skeptical that handing out cookies will make any of these guys less angry all the damn time. They need to learn some emotional intelligence, or at least learn that they aren't the majority and the majority doesn't care for their whargarbl so please take it elsewhere.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:54 AM on August 30, 2017 [87 favorites]
Phillip Bump/WaPo: Trump’s visit to Texas didn’t result in the front-page coverage he no doubt hoped to see
In fact, a survey of major newspapers from across the country shows that, for the most part, front-page coverage was dominated by photos and stories about the storm, playing down or ignoring Trump’s visit. When he appeared at all, the front-page coverage was a small picture of Trump accompanying a story mostly about something else.posted by ZeusHumms at 10:01 AM on August 30, 2017 [14 favorites]
...
Of newspapers in the area hit by Harvey, only the Corpus Christi Caller-Times dedicated its full front page to the president’s visit — not unexpected, given that he visited the city itself.
Trump will have a second bite at the apple, with another trip planned to Texas this weekend that his press secretary insisted would include meetings with evacuees.
Just in time for the Sunday papers.
I can point to three other problems that urban areas have that are at least as difficult to manage but the federal government isn't trying to assist with, and in fact has generally been opposed to.
So you're just saying "don't bother addressing rural problems with policies geared toward them until all the problems of cities are solved, because the voters in rural and suburban areas [despite the fact that the suburbs are getting poorer, at least around here, while the city gets richer] already get too much help and nothing that we do to address their problems will translate into votes anyway"? I mean, that's what I'm getting from you, plus a little "we can't address two sets of problems at once".
posted by Frowner at 10:04 AM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
So you're just saying "don't bother addressing rural problems with policies geared toward them until all the problems of cities are solved, because the voters in rural and suburban areas [despite the fact that the suburbs are getting poorer, at least around here, while the city gets richer] already get too much help and nothing that we do to address their problems will translate into votes anyway"? I mean, that's what I'm getting from you, plus a little "we can't address two sets of problems at once".
posted by Frowner at 10:04 AM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
When he appeared at all, the front-page coverage was a small picture of Trump accompanying a story mostly about something else.
Actually, it was Melania's heels that were shown front and center, with T off to the side. Wonder how he felt about that.
posted by Melismata at 10:06 AM on August 30, 2017
Actually, it was Melania's heels that were shown front and center, with T off to the side. Wonder how he felt about that.
posted by Melismata at 10:06 AM on August 30, 2017
This is a political catch-all thread so I can share that I just learned that The Young Turks featuring former Armenian Genocide-denier Cenk Uygur are named after the group that committed the Armenian Genocide and my head is spinning
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:07 AM on August 30, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:07 AM on August 30, 2017 [13 favorites]
Joseph Gurl: Back in 2004, Karl Rove and the Republicans goosed up turnout for Bush by putting a series of red-meat state-level ballot initiatives on the ballot. The idea was that the base wouldn't necessarily turn out to vote for Bush. They would turn out, though, to vote against gay marriage. And it worked. In 2018, the GOP is planning to do a reprise: only this time, they don't think so-called social issues will turn out the base. Instead, they want to focus on economic issues like tax cuts.
Trump Hits The Road To Promote Tax Cuts (Details To Come) (NPR, Aug. 30, 2017)
Yes, "(Details To Come)" is part of the article's title, because National Economic Council Director Gary Cohn has only gotten the Republican congressional leaders to commit "only to a vague statement of principles that calls for lower tax rates on both individuals and businesses."
Trump Will Get His Tax Cuts, Vast Majority of Economists Say (Rich Miller and Catarina Saraiva, Bloomberg, August 14, 2017)
- Yet survey suggests the impact on economy will be limited
- Fed seen raising interest rates, which may blunt stimulus
posted by filthy light thief at 10:09 AM on August 30, 2017 [22 favorites]
Trump Hits The Road To Promote Tax Cuts (Details To Come) (NPR, Aug. 30, 2017)
Yes, "(Details To Come)" is part of the article's title, because National Economic Council Director Gary Cohn has only gotten the Republican congressional leaders to commit "only to a vague statement of principles that calls for lower tax rates on both individuals and businesses."
Cohn said it will be up to lawmakers to fill in the details.So the big plan to boost GOP turn-out is another "let's let congress figure it out." Let's see, what major legislation has congress passed? President Trump has signed 53 bills into law. Here's what they do (Jennifer Hansler, CNN, Aug. 23, 2017)
"We've got a great, I would say, skeleton," Cohn told reporters earlier this month. "We need the Ways and Means Committee to put some muscle and skin on the skeleton and drive tax reform forward. And it's our objective to do that between now and the end of the year."
...
Mnuchin insists tax cuts are now Trump's No. 1 priority.
"He's going to go on the road," Mnuchin said. "The president is 100 percent supportive of us passing legislation this year."
...
Mnuchin conceded that rewriting the tax code is a taller order than he initially imagined.
"Earlier in the year I said I thought we'd get it done by August, and I was wrong," the Treasury secretary said. "I am now going to say that I'm very hopeful, and I think we can get this done by the end of the year, but we will continue to revisit it."
In all, two of the laws has created a new policy, 15 have rolled back rules and regulations issued under Obama's administration, 10 had to do with designating something or working to create a new initiative, 11 changed or expanded existing legislation, and 15 were related to government funding or operations.Emphasis mine. Let's face it, Trump's more of a promise breaker and "I'll get to it later" kind of leader than a deal-maker. His administration could be put under the banner of "We thought this [thing] would be easier."
...
Here's a look at when those bills were signed into law and what they actually do, according to Congress.gov and CNN reporting.
New policy legislation
August 2, 2017: H.R. 3364 - Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act
This legislation levies new sanctions against Russia and restricts Trump's own ability to ease sanctions in place against Moscow. The bill passed overwhelmingly in Congress. In a statement, Trump called the legislation "seriously flawed."
June 23, 2017: S. 1094 - "Department of Veterans Affairs Accountability and Whistleblower Protection Act of 2017"
This law gives the agency's leaders the ability to fire inept employees and protect those who uncover and report wrongdoing at the VA. Its signing represents the completion of one of Trump's campaign promises. It passed both bodies of Congress with broad bipartisan support.
Trump Will Get His Tax Cuts, Vast Majority of Economists Say (Rich Miller and Catarina Saraiva, Bloomberg, August 14, 2017)
- Yet survey suggests the impact on economy will be limited
- Fed seen raising interest rates, which may blunt stimulus
The Bloomberg survey forecasts growth in 2018 to be only slightly higher than this year -- 2.3 percent versus 2.1 percent, according to median projections from a broader pool of 71 economists. What’s more, analysts see the economy losing momentum in 2019, with expansion falling back to 2 percent, contrasting with the Trump administration’s forecast of a further pickup.Their graph is pretty stark, contrasting the gleefully optimistic Trump administration forecast and the dour Economists' median forecast, predicting growth to slow into 2018, then decline into 2019.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:09 AM on August 30, 2017 [22 favorites]
We all know the saying "When you're used to privilege, equality can feel like oppression", right?
Well that's exactly what's going on with these "angry white men". They mainly see what's happening to them without the larger context of why it's happening or how it will ultimately benefit them, if done right.
We all see reality through our own distorted lenses...that's just basic human psychology, and these people are no different. So the idea of just totally writing off this entire group, some of whom have been less privileged than others, and treating them as a single monolithic block of whiny crybabies who knowingly want others to suffer so they can get back their rightful place at "the top" (as if some of them were even remotely near the top of anything) is just wrong.
Their mindset is created almost entirely from ignorance: ignorance of what real discrimination looks and feels like, ignorance of their own privileges, ignorance of how unfettered capitalism is really causing their economic situation. And you don't fight ignorance with disdain...you replace it with knowledge and truth. And maybe the worst part is we may have to be a little bit empathetic with their situation (horrors!!!) to make them open up a bit and be receptive to that truth and knowledge.
And let me be clear: I'm not advocating capitulating, accommodating, or compromising with white supremacists. Fuck them. They are scum and must be destroyed by force. Nor am I concerned about protecting anyone's precious white male feelings. I'm talking about replacing ignorance with truth. Because the right is all over these guys with their lies, and if the left's response is just to ignore them and leave them to believe those lies, then I believe that's a huge missed opportunity for ultimately creating the progressive and inclusive society we supposedly want to create here.
Unless you're just looking for an enemy to fight, in which case, carry on.
posted by rocket88 at 10:11 AM on August 30, 2017 [19 favorites]
Well that's exactly what's going on with these "angry white men". They mainly see what's happening to them without the larger context of why it's happening or how it will ultimately benefit them, if done right.
We all see reality through our own distorted lenses...that's just basic human psychology, and these people are no different. So the idea of just totally writing off this entire group, some of whom have been less privileged than others, and treating them as a single monolithic block of whiny crybabies who knowingly want others to suffer so they can get back their rightful place at "the top" (as if some of them were even remotely near the top of anything) is just wrong.
Their mindset is created almost entirely from ignorance: ignorance of what real discrimination looks and feels like, ignorance of their own privileges, ignorance of how unfettered capitalism is really causing their economic situation. And you don't fight ignorance with disdain...you replace it with knowledge and truth. And maybe the worst part is we may have to be a little bit empathetic with their situation (horrors!!!) to make them open up a bit and be receptive to that truth and knowledge.
And let me be clear: I'm not advocating capitulating, accommodating, or compromising with white supremacists. Fuck them. They are scum and must be destroyed by force. Nor am I concerned about protecting anyone's precious white male feelings. I'm talking about replacing ignorance with truth. Because the right is all over these guys with their lies, and if the left's response is just to ignore them and leave them to believe those lies, then I believe that's a huge missed opportunity for ultimately creating the progressive and inclusive society we supposedly want to create here.
Unless you're just looking for an enemy to fight, in which case, carry on.
posted by rocket88 at 10:11 AM on August 30, 2017 [19 favorites]
And on more current, pressing financial issues and concerns: Why Approving Emergency Funding For Harvey Might Not Be Easy For Congress (NPR, Aug. 30, 2017)
Funding for cleanup and rebuilding will likely pass — but it probably won't be easy.Economic Impact Of Harvey Could Be Felt Nationwide Before It's Over (NPR, Aug. 28, 2017)
"I sort of see it as everyone holding their breath," Sarah Binder, a congressional expert at the Brookings Institution, said about the coming stretch of deadlines.
Funding for the government expires Sept. 30. The deadline for raising the debt ceiling hits next month, too. It has been increasingly hard to round up conservative support for both measures in recent years. "It's not yet clear how exactly they're going to proceed," Binder said. "And there's the wild card of the president who has threatened to shut down the government if they don't fund a border wall."
Several popular government programs expire at the end of September, too, and need reauthorization votes beforehand.
That is the backdrop that urgent Harvey funding will be added to.
"The federal funds are absolutely essential to recovery," says Edward Richards, director of Louisiana State University's Climate Change Law and Policy Project.
Over the past six decades, the federal government has become the prime funder and driver of recovery efforts after major storms.
Chuck Watson, who studies the economic impact of natural disasters for Enki Holdings, says the cost to the economy from the flooding is likely to be $30 billion. That's because of the rain.posted by filthy light thief at 10:16 AM on August 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
...
About a third of Houston's economy is directly tied to the oil and gas industry. But the region is also home to non-energy companies, both small manufacturers and large corporations such as KBR, Waste Management and the food service giant Sysco.
Many of those companies have shut down in Harvey's wake, as have several hospitals, both major airports and the Port Of Houston.
...
"In Houston you're going to have street signs, traffic lights, traffic signals, road damage, culverts, a tremendous amount of public infrastructure damage, and of course, there's no insurance. That just comes right out of the taxpayers," Watson says.
It's not clear yet how many homes have been destroyed yet, but right now Watson estimates the cost of repairing residential properties will be about $12 billion.
Most of that damage won't be covered by insurance, because homeowners' policies typically don't cover flooding. While coverage is available through a federal program, most people never bother to get it, says Loretta Worters, spokesperson for the Insurance Information Institute.
Watson also worries about something else.
Some of Houston's oil refineries are closed right now for a simple logistical reason: Streets are flooded and their employees can't get to them.
Their mindset is created almost entirely from ignorance: ignorance of what real discrimination looks and feels like, ignorance of their own privileges, ignorance of how unfettered capitalism is really causing their economic situation. And you don't fight ignorance with disdain...you replace it with knowledge and truth.
I hear what you're saying and I admire / envy your faith in the ability to change which might exist in some of these guys, but it's not as if knowledge and truth have not been on offer to them for quite some time. We're seeing right now that a large proportion of them prefer the lie and will go to absurd lengths to cling to it just a little longer. The talking points coming out of the right barely make sense any more. "BLM is a terrorist group!" "Whites are the most discriminated against!" "The Deep State is a Thing!" "Charlottesville was a Clinton / Soros hoax, just like Sandy Hook, and any other real world incident which kicks the legs out from under my belief system!"
Some of these chuckleheads wouldn't give up cisheteronormative white Christian patriarchy even if Christ himself showed up and said "enough already." They'd probably be too busy wondering about Christ's immigrant status to hear a word he said. They know the reality of the world on some level, they just refuse to accept it or put up with anyone else accepting it around them. I don't know what we do with dudes like that. Seems to me we've already tried giving their delusions room to breathe.
posted by EatTheWeek at 10:20 AM on August 30, 2017 [29 favorites]
I hear what you're saying and I admire / envy your faith in the ability to change which might exist in some of these guys, but it's not as if knowledge and truth have not been on offer to them for quite some time. We're seeing right now that a large proportion of them prefer the lie and will go to absurd lengths to cling to it just a little longer. The talking points coming out of the right barely make sense any more. "BLM is a terrorist group!" "Whites are the most discriminated against!" "The Deep State is a Thing!" "Charlottesville was a Clinton / Soros hoax, just like Sandy Hook, and any other real world incident which kicks the legs out from under my belief system!"
Some of these chuckleheads wouldn't give up cisheteronormative white Christian patriarchy even if Christ himself showed up and said "enough already." They'd probably be too busy wondering about Christ's immigrant status to hear a word he said. They know the reality of the world on some level, they just refuse to accept it or put up with anyone else accepting it around them. I don't know what we do with dudes like that. Seems to me we've already tried giving their delusions room to breathe.
posted by EatTheWeek at 10:20 AM on August 30, 2017 [29 favorites]
> So you're just saying "don't bother addressing rural problems with policies geared toward them until all the problems of cities are solved, because the voters in rural and suburban areas [despite the fact that the suburbs are getting poorer, at least around here, while the city gets richer] already get too much help and nothing that we do to address their problems will translate into votes anyway"? I mean, that's what I'm getting from you, plus a little "we can't address two sets of problems at once".
Not at all, and I think I've explained myself clearly above, so I'm almost to the point where I'm wondering if you want to engage with the arguments I'm making. You're the one who explicitly tied these programs to politics by making an argument centered around using them to divide the Trumpist coalition. I am fine with policies that help alleviate suffering wherever it's happening, and I can be talked into the more cynical strategy of using policy initiatives (as long as they're good ideas on their own) to win elections.
What I'm not okay with is when policy initiatives are chosen only (or primarily) because political consultants want One Weird Trick to winning elections. This is because political consultants tend do a bad job seeing the forest for the trees -- instead of some policies aimed at splitting the deplorables and some other policies aimed at shoring up the party's natural ideological base, it is likely to be all deplorables, all the time. Witness the avalanche of stories about the "white working class" and the deafening silence on rural people of color, urban whites, and anyone else who wasn't part of the tiny sliver of the electorate that handed Trump his victory.
Can politicians do multiple things at once? Sure, but under the current conditions, Democrats aren't going to be able to do any of these things at the federal level, so it's all about political messaging and promises for when Democrats retake power. I'm fine with red state Democrats running on policies that help their people, but when it becomes Tim Ryan of Ohio lecturing the party to run on those same policies nationally because "that's where the votes are", that's where I begin smashing my monitor and throwing my keyboard across the room. There are a lot of votes elsewhere as well.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:22 AM on August 30, 2017 [10 favorites]
Not at all, and I think I've explained myself clearly above, so I'm almost to the point where I'm wondering if you want to engage with the arguments I'm making. You're the one who explicitly tied these programs to politics by making an argument centered around using them to divide the Trumpist coalition. I am fine with policies that help alleviate suffering wherever it's happening, and I can be talked into the more cynical strategy of using policy initiatives (as long as they're good ideas on their own) to win elections.
What I'm not okay with is when policy initiatives are chosen only (or primarily) because political consultants want One Weird Trick to winning elections. This is because political consultants tend do a bad job seeing the forest for the trees -- instead of some policies aimed at splitting the deplorables and some other policies aimed at shoring up the party's natural ideological base, it is likely to be all deplorables, all the time. Witness the avalanche of stories about the "white working class" and the deafening silence on rural people of color, urban whites, and anyone else who wasn't part of the tiny sliver of the electorate that handed Trump his victory.
Can politicians do multiple things at once? Sure, but under the current conditions, Democrats aren't going to be able to do any of these things at the federal level, so it's all about political messaging and promises for when Democrats retake power. I'm fine with red state Democrats running on policies that help their people, but when it becomes Tim Ryan of Ohio lecturing the party to run on those same policies nationally because "that's where the votes are", that's where I begin smashing my monitor and throwing my keyboard across the room. There are a lot of votes elsewhere as well.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:22 AM on August 30, 2017 [10 favorites]
Some of these chuckleheads wouldn't give up cisheteronormative white Christian patriarchy even if Christ himself showed up and said "enough already."
he arguably already did
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:24 AM on August 30, 2017 [23 favorites]
he arguably already did
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:24 AM on August 30, 2017 [23 favorites]
We all know the saying "When you're used to privilege, equality can feel like oppression", right?
I've mentioned before on the Blue about how I one day received an email from one of my long-term friends (who described himself as a "crunchy conservative", as in, supposedly enlightened about social equality, the environment, etc.) telling me that "heterosexual, white, evangelical males are the most victimized, persecuted group in America today."
My reaction, after initial incredulity, then a few responses attempting to gently ask questions and try to lead him to understand why he expressed that view, was to eventually tell him how he had basically been born at the front of the line, and is now getting upset that other people are getting their turn. That equality means something - it's not just a word - and it sometimes means that the privileged position you've enjoyed without even thinking about it may be eroded, yes, because you need to make room for others. He responded heatedly, accusing me of calling him a racist (I hadn't used that word, but it was the inevitable inference). I've not communicated with him since. That was eight years ago.
We used to go to church together, go dirt-bike riding, shooting, martial arts, etc., etc. Talked a lot about personal things. Never did I get a sense of his views on racial privilege before then. I guess it took 12 years of knowing him, and him having a tough day, to finally express what he felt in his heart. It was very sad to lose a friend to such a disease.
posted by darkstar at 10:28 AM on August 30, 2017 [52 favorites]
I've mentioned before on the Blue about how I one day received an email from one of my long-term friends (who described himself as a "crunchy conservative", as in, supposedly enlightened about social equality, the environment, etc.) telling me that "heterosexual, white, evangelical males are the most victimized, persecuted group in America today."
My reaction, after initial incredulity, then a few responses attempting to gently ask questions and try to lead him to understand why he expressed that view, was to eventually tell him how he had basically been born at the front of the line, and is now getting upset that other people are getting their turn. That equality means something - it's not just a word - and it sometimes means that the privileged position you've enjoyed without even thinking about it may be eroded, yes, because you need to make room for others. He responded heatedly, accusing me of calling him a racist (I hadn't used that word, but it was the inevitable inference). I've not communicated with him since. That was eight years ago.
We used to go to church together, go dirt-bike riding, shooting, martial arts, etc., etc. Talked a lot about personal things. Never did I get a sense of his views on racial privilege before then. I guess it took 12 years of knowing him, and him having a tough day, to finally express what he felt in his heart. It was very sad to lose a friend to such a disease.
posted by darkstar at 10:28 AM on August 30, 2017 [52 favorites]
In my political life, I have noticed that people of all stripes make a similar mistake - considering the opposition to be one united, ideologically coherent group with shared goals rather than a collection of different groups with different histories and interests.... The point is to break apart the coalitions of the opposition, either by setting them at each other's throats or by finding the ones that can be drawn away from the opposition without compromising your own beliefs.I doubt this is what you had in mind, and I no way say this to defend this demographic, but one common mistake made here and elsewhere when speaking about the Trump deplorables is to refer to them as "angry white men."* As it happens, over 50% of white women voted for Trump, and of the deplorables (those who still strongly approve), my guess is at least 40% are white women. Again, I say this neither to defend white dudes nor drag down white women, but more to point out that there do still remain strategic possibilities in leveraging the gender divide within the right. Clinton and/or Trump already did this -- witness the much higher percentage of white men who voted for Trump -- but if one wants to be ruthlessly strategic (i.e., put aside thoughts of deservingness), there are probably numerous opportunities to peel off a few more Trump-voting white women through targeted policies, notwithstanding the fact that most of them are anti-abortion misogynists. The true deplorables -- male and female -- are probably a lost cause, but the majority of weakly-pro-Trump Republicans are probably white women, a few percent of whom could probably be swayed in the right circumstances. Of course, I also agree with tonycpsu that historically, attempts to target these women by the DNC have focused on blanket centrist soccer-mom strategies, so we have to be careful in thinking about how we target what would be, at best, the far right flank of the Democratic party.
[* I also understand that in many if not most cases when talking about white men here, we are discussing them independent of Trump voting per se -- e.g., in nazi marches -- where of course the shorthand makes more sense since a far higher percentage of active nazi supporters seem to be male.]
posted by chortly at 10:35 AM on August 30, 2017 [14 favorites]
It's not so much that the deplorables are all angry white men but that their agenda is being set by angry white men. Essentially deplorables = angry white men + their allies.
posted by xigxag at 10:56 AM on August 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by xigxag at 10:56 AM on August 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
Nor am I concerned about protecting anyone's precious white male feelings. I'm talking about replacing ignorance with truth.
Right on!
In theory, once they've seen the light, their own realization of the harm they've caused will hopefully be punishment enough.
Even then, it's not about them, it's about stopping the potential harm they'll cause in the future to others, if that happens to mean that they can also live a happy and fulfilling life that they don't deserve, then so be it. It's like the reverse of welfare, we know that some undeserving people are going to get helped but we minimize it when we can and just tolerate it in the name of the greater good when we can't.
I would LOVE for all of these guys to get the comeuppance they deserve but if I have to choose between racists getting their comeuppance and actually minimizing the effects of institutional racism, I'll happily trade that comeuppance for an end to that fight.
posted by VTX at 10:56 AM on August 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
Right on!
In theory, once they've seen the light, their own realization of the harm they've caused will hopefully be punishment enough.
Even then, it's not about them, it's about stopping the potential harm they'll cause in the future to others, if that happens to mean that they can also live a happy and fulfilling life that they don't deserve, then so be it. It's like the reverse of welfare, we know that some undeserving people are going to get helped but we minimize it when we can and just tolerate it in the name of the greater good when we can't.
I would LOVE for all of these guys to get the comeuppance they deserve but if I have to choose between racists getting their comeuppance and actually minimizing the effects of institutional racism, I'll happily trade that comeuppance for an end to that fight.
posted by VTX at 10:56 AM on August 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
I know it was discussed some upthread, but I am still amazed at President Pants-On-Fire's complete lack of empathy, and the lack of even any attempt to show empathy even if faked. Surely someone is telling him to act like he cares, to say something meaningful, to reassure people in a devastating crisis.
posted by theora55 at 11:02 AM on August 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 11:02 AM on August 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
Joy Reid last night on the Daily Show, talking about elections, what Democrats need to do, and of course, scrotus. Really worth a watch.
posted by numaner at 11:03 AM on August 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by numaner at 11:03 AM on August 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
Bernie Sanders: single-payer is not a "litmus test"
"Litmus test" is a term I wish we could just erase from our political discourse, but we're stuck with it, so I'm glad Bernie's pushing back here. Reading between the lines a bit in the context of his other remarks about the ACA, he seems like he understands that it's going to be impossible to build support for single-payer if the ACA doesn't have strong support, and that someone who supports keeping the ACA but not single-payer is better to have in a red district than someone who might be wobbly on the ACA or oppose it entirely. Good for him.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:05 AM on August 30, 2017 [12 favorites]
"Litmus test" is a term I wish we could just erase from our political discourse, but we're stuck with it, so I'm glad Bernie's pushing back here. Reading between the lines a bit in the context of his other remarks about the ACA, he seems like he understands that it's going to be impossible to build support for single-payer if the ACA doesn't have strong support, and that someone who supports keeping the ACA but not single-payer is better to have in a red district than someone who might be wobbly on the ACA or oppose it entirely. Good for him.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:05 AM on August 30, 2017 [12 favorites]
The Denver Statement might cheer you up, if you're looking for a faith response to the Nashville Statement.
I would like to see fewer Statements and more Actions, but that's what I always say about religion.
posted by blnkfrnk at 11:06 AM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
I would like to see fewer Statements and more Actions, but that's what I always say about religion.
posted by blnkfrnk at 11:06 AM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
So the idea of just totally writing off this entire group, some of whom have been less privileged than others, and treating them as a single monolithic block of whiny crybabies who knowingly want others to suffer so they can get back their rightful place at "the top" (as if some of them were even remotely near the top of anything) is just wrong.
...
Nor am I concerned about protecting anyone's precious white male feelings. I'm talking about replacing ignorance with truth.
I'm a straight white man who grew up in South Dakota in an evangelical, Republican home. I was a Republican for 20 years. So I don't view white men as a monolith or beyond hope, because if that was true I'd be fighting for the other side. Yes it is possible to educate/convince some white male Republicans. But at the point that these white males are still rabid Trump supporters after two years of his campaign and 8 months of his presidency, a campaign and presidency defined by racism, misogyny, incompetence and graft, I think you've pretty much exhausted the reasonable, convincible ones. The people left are the ones committed/awful/damaged enough that any attempt by a liberal to persuade will only anger them and push them further away.
And even for the few that might with just the right approach and all the time in the world be convincible, the effort and energy required is way out of proportion to the benefit. We're much better off spending that time protecting voting rights, registering voters, persuading independents, protecting those threatened by Trump. etc. At some point, needing to work so hard for so few white people is basically another form of institutional racism, essentially saying that these people are more important.
posted by chris24 at 11:11 AM on August 30, 2017 [92 favorites]
...
Nor am I concerned about protecting anyone's precious white male feelings. I'm talking about replacing ignorance with truth.
I'm a straight white man who grew up in South Dakota in an evangelical, Republican home. I was a Republican for 20 years. So I don't view white men as a monolith or beyond hope, because if that was true I'd be fighting for the other side. Yes it is possible to educate/convince some white male Republicans. But at the point that these white males are still rabid Trump supporters after two years of his campaign and 8 months of his presidency, a campaign and presidency defined by racism, misogyny, incompetence and graft, I think you've pretty much exhausted the reasonable, convincible ones. The people left are the ones committed/awful/damaged enough that any attempt by a liberal to persuade will only anger them and push them further away.
And even for the few that might with just the right approach and all the time in the world be convincible, the effort and energy required is way out of proportion to the benefit. We're much better off spending that time protecting voting rights, registering voters, persuading independents, protecting those threatened by Trump. etc. At some point, needing to work so hard for so few white people is basically another form of institutional racism, essentially saying that these people are more important.
posted by chris24 at 11:11 AM on August 30, 2017 [92 favorites]
The Denver Statement might cheer you up, if you're looking for a faith response to the Nashville Statement.
Denver is at a higher altitude, therefore closer to God, so their Statement trumps the Nashvillains'.
posted by Etrigan at 11:15 AM on August 30, 2017 [19 favorites]
Denver is at a higher altitude, therefore closer to God, so their Statement trumps the Nashvillains'.
posted by Etrigan at 11:15 AM on August 30, 2017 [19 favorites]
"Toward the end of World War II, Jean-Paul Sartre looked at the anti-Semites of Europe and saw something that still sounds familiar. 'Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies,' he wrote in the 1944 essay 'Anti-Semite and Jew'. They 'are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words'. Anti-Semites 'delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert'."Trumpism, by and large, is not born of ignorance. It's born out of willful contempt for the norms of civil society and civil debate. It is - pretty much explicitly - about spite and revenge.
People don't arrive at Trumpism because they're interested in truth, but got misled somewhere along the way. It happens because they're interested in dominance, and found that deferring to truth frustrates that goal. And this state of affairs got started long before Trump came down that escalator.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 11:15 AM on August 30, 2017 [142 favorites]
I'm a straight white man who grew up in South Dakota in an evangelical, Republican home. I was a Republican for 20 years. So I don't view white men as a monolith or beyond hope, because if that was true I'd be fighting for the other side. Yes it is possible to educate/convince some white male Republicans.
On the one hand, I agree with you; few people are beyond hope. But on the other... might I go out on a limb and guess your eyes were opened after you moved out of the evangelical, Republican home in South Dakota? I mean, I guess I could be wrong, but generally it's much more difficult for people to get deprogrammed while they're still drinking the Koolaid.
posted by Justinian at 11:17 AM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
On the one hand, I agree with you; few people are beyond hope. But on the other... might I go out on a limb and guess your eyes were opened after you moved out of the evangelical, Republican home in South Dakota? I mean, I guess I could be wrong, but generally it's much more difficult for people to get deprogrammed while they're still drinking the Koolaid.
posted by Justinian at 11:17 AM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
Berkeley Mayor: Classify Antifa as a gang
“I think we should classify them as a gang,” said Arreguin. “They come dressed in uniforms. They have weapons, almost like a militia and I think we need to think about that in terms of our law enforcement approach.”
Arreguin said that while he does not support the far right, it was time to draw the line on the left as well, especially on the black-clad activists who showed up in force and took over both the protests and the park, and played a part in Sunday’s violent clashes.
“I think we are going to have to think ‘big picture’ about what is the strategy for how we are going to deal with these violent elements on the left as well,” said the mayor.
The mayor said it was also time for the non-violent protesters to take a stand.
“We also need to hold accountable and encourage people not to associate with these extremists because it empowers them and gives them cover,” said Arreguin.
lmao @ "almost like a militia". I find that hilarious, especially when over here in Portland our Republican party is literally using a militia as protection.
Politico: How Militias Became the Private Police for White Supremacists
In the Trump era, armed antigovernment groups have found common cause with Nazis, KKK and other white nationalists.
posted by gucci mane at 11:18 AM on August 30, 2017 [28 favorites]
“I think we should classify them as a gang,” said Arreguin. “They come dressed in uniforms. They have weapons, almost like a militia and I think we need to think about that in terms of our law enforcement approach.”
Arreguin said that while he does not support the far right, it was time to draw the line on the left as well, especially on the black-clad activists who showed up in force and took over both the protests and the park, and played a part in Sunday’s violent clashes.
“I think we are going to have to think ‘big picture’ about what is the strategy for how we are going to deal with these violent elements on the left as well,” said the mayor.
The mayor said it was also time for the non-violent protesters to take a stand.
“We also need to hold accountable and encourage people not to associate with these extremists because it empowers them and gives them cover,” said Arreguin.
lmao @ "almost like a militia". I find that hilarious, especially when over here in Portland our Republican party is literally using a militia as protection.
Politico: How Militias Became the Private Police for White Supremacists
In the Trump era, armed antigovernment groups have found common cause with Nazis, KKK and other white nationalists.
posted by gucci mane at 11:18 AM on August 30, 2017 [28 favorites]
On the one hand, I agree with you; few people are beyond hope. But on the other... might I go out on a limb and guess your eyes were opened after you moved out of the evangelical, Republican home in South Dakota? I mean, I guess I could be wrong, but generally it's much more difficult for people to get deprogrammed while they're still drinking the Koolaid.
I agree. My history wasn't meant to say it was easy or even probable, but just possible in some circumstances. And as a counterpoint to the comment that we supposedly viewed it as impossible and hopeless. The rest of my comment was intended to show how difficult any deprogramming was going to be, especially with people still supporting him with the manifest incompetence and racism, and that it wasn't a good use of time and resources.
posted by chris24 at 11:23 AM on August 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
I agree. My history wasn't meant to say it was easy or even probable, but just possible in some circumstances. And as a counterpoint to the comment that we supposedly viewed it as impossible and hopeless. The rest of my comment was intended to show how difficult any deprogramming was going to be, especially with people still supporting him with the manifest incompetence and racism, and that it wasn't a good use of time and resources.
posted by chris24 at 11:23 AM on August 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
Right. I hope people in those communities keep up the fight but yeah we've got to focus on voting rights, etc.
posted by Justinian at 11:25 AM on August 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 11:25 AM on August 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
I find it deeply disturbing that the mayor of Berkeley hasn't proposed classifying militias as gangs. Or neo-Nazis as gangs. Or the KKK as a gang.
Nope, the only political group he wants to think of as a gang are the antifa.
And Berkeley is theoretically "liberal".
posted by sotonohito at 11:26 AM on August 30, 2017 [58 favorites]
Nope, the only political group he wants to think of as a gang are the antifa.
And Berkeley is theoretically "liberal".
posted by sotonohito at 11:26 AM on August 30, 2017 [58 favorites]
Somebody on a past election thread linked to a metaphor that's popular among Trump supporters: that of a long line of people waiting for their piece of the American Dream. For them, justice and equality efforts are like giving other people (undeserving, of course) a cut in line ahead of them. I remember the article linked in the comment saying lots of people interviewed said "Yes, that's exactly how I feel."
A much more useful analogy is a table, where people gather around for their piece of the dream. Everyone gathered around gets a voice, and efforts at more equality and justice mean you make the table bigger, and see that more people get a chair. So when you're at the table arguing for your piece of the pie, you're no more "ahead" than anybody else, you have to acknowledge that others are there, and it's to your own advantage to persuade others to your side.
I'm going to a family event this fall where I unfortunately might get the chance to try the table metaphor out, depending on which topics get raised in conversation. I wish I were optimistic about how well it will work.
posted by Rykey at 11:27 AM on August 30, 2017 [18 favorites]
A much more useful analogy is a table, where people gather around for their piece of the dream. Everyone gathered around gets a voice, and efforts at more equality and justice mean you make the table bigger, and see that more people get a chair. So when you're at the table arguing for your piece of the pie, you're no more "ahead" than anybody else, you have to acknowledge that others are there, and it's to your own advantage to persuade others to your side.
I'm going to a family event this fall where I unfortunately might get the chance to try the table metaphor out, depending on which topics get raised in conversation. I wish I were optimistic about how well it will work.
posted by Rykey at 11:27 AM on August 30, 2017 [18 favorites]
“They come dressed in uniforms. They have weapons, almost like a militia and I think we need to think about that in terms of our law enforcement approach.”
Oh, how about the Nazis then?
posted by Artw at 11:28 AM on August 30, 2017 [22 favorites]
Oh, how about the Nazis then?
posted by Artw at 11:28 AM on August 30, 2017 [22 favorites]
Trevor Noah fleetingly referred to 'left wing violence in Berkely' this week, which seriously pissed me off.
posted by not_that_epiphanius at 11:31 AM on August 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by not_that_epiphanius at 11:31 AM on August 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
Trump scheduled to go onstage in Springfield for tax cut blather any minute now...
posted by Rykey at 11:31 AM on August 30, 2017
posted by Rykey at 11:31 AM on August 30, 2017
The rest of my comment was intended to show how difficult any deprogramming was going to be...
The political class left doesn't even need to go into reprogramming. Just reclaim populism and present a case for why it is directly in that person's best interest to vote D. If you can't come up with a reason it is in a person's direct interest to vote D, then you have come to the root of the problem. And maybe it isn't a problem - maybe neither party has any intention of offering anything to these people. But at least one party is paying lip service.
posted by FakeFreyja at 11:31 AM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
The political class left doesn't even need to go into reprogramming. Just reclaim populism and present a case for why it is directly in that person's best interest to vote D. If you can't come up with a reason it is in a person's direct interest to vote D, then you have come to the root of the problem. And maybe it isn't a problem - maybe neither party has any intention of offering anything to these people. But at least one party is paying lip service.
posted by FakeFreyja at 11:31 AM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
Numerous neo-Nazi and white supremacist groups are already classified as gangs...
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 11:31 AM on August 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 11:31 AM on August 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
save alive nothing that breatheth: Numerous neo-Nazi and white supremacist groups are already classified as gangs...
Not the people who are there literally dressed up in uniforms, carrying assault rifles. Nor the guys that have been at Berkeley before dressed with large sticks and shields and wearing uniforms.
posted by gucci mane at 11:38 AM on August 30, 2017 [9 favorites]
Not the people who are there literally dressed up in uniforms, carrying assault rifles. Nor the guys that have been at Berkeley before dressed with large sticks and shields and wearing uniforms.
posted by gucci mane at 11:38 AM on August 30, 2017 [9 favorites]
Trevor Noah fleetingly mentioned 'left wing violence in Berkely' this week, which seriously pissed me off.
Taking a page from his predecessor's book. Remember the 2010 Rally to Restore Sanity?
Per Wikipedia:
"Its stated purpose was to provide a venue for attendees to be heard above what Stewart described as the more vocal and extreme 15–20% of Americans who "control the conversation" of American politics."
In retrospect, that sounds a bit like "bad people on many sides".
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:39 AM on August 30, 2017 [9 favorites]
Taking a page from his predecessor's book. Remember the 2010 Rally to Restore Sanity?
Per Wikipedia:
"Its stated purpose was to provide a venue for attendees to be heard above what Stewart described as the more vocal and extreme 15–20% of Americans who "control the conversation" of American politics."
In retrospect, that sounds a bit like "bad people on many sides".
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:39 AM on August 30, 2017 [9 favorites]
This is your streaming link for Trump's tax speech, should you wish to spend your time learning absolutely nothing about his tax plan, which has nothing to do with Congress's tax plan. So yeah, waste your time here I guess.
posted by zachlipton at 11:41 AM on August 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:41 AM on August 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yeah I'm watching. So far he's found time to say how beautiful the governor(?)'s wife is, but not mention the hurricane or its victims.
posted by Justinian at 11:43 AM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 11:43 AM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
First off, the concept of "gang" is racialized and that's why it's being mobilized against the left - with the hope of tapping into racial bias and fear.
Classifying "antifa" as a gang would mean de facto classifying much of the young left as a gang, not because everyone considers themselves to be antifa but because wearing black and a bandana at protests is not that unusual, and we all know that "weapons" are what cops want to consider weapons, so a semi-automatic can just be an accessory while your scissors are a weapon. I mean, that would be really, really bad - I cannot overstate how bad it would be.
"Antifa" is like "environmentalist" in that there definitely are people who identify as antifa, there definitely are things that they have in common, but it's a very broad term and there's no real process of membership. I have been in a thousand person Charlottesville solidarity march where everyone was chanting "we are all antifa". Were we all wearing black and carrying weapons? Of course not. I'd like to think most of us would be willing to clock a Nazi if the need arose, but most of us - like most people, antifa or not - do not preferentially seek out hitting as a problem-solving technique.
I mean, if "wears black, has worn a bandanna at protests while also wearing black and has at least once in their life physically scuffled with Nazis or cops" means that one is part of a gang, everyone in my immediate social circle is a gang member.
It's proof once again that wealthy, powerful liberals hate the left as much as or more than they hate the right. Anyone with a grain of sense can see that this "antifa are a gang" thing is either stupid or evil - it would obviously be used very very broadly against the left, just as saying that "environmentalists" are a gang would be. Anyone who asserts that "antifa" are a gang is either ignorant or malicious.
posted by Frowner at 11:44 AM on August 30, 2017 [80 favorites]
Classifying "antifa" as a gang would mean de facto classifying much of the young left as a gang, not because everyone considers themselves to be antifa but because wearing black and a bandana at protests is not that unusual, and we all know that "weapons" are what cops want to consider weapons, so a semi-automatic can just be an accessory while your scissors are a weapon. I mean, that would be really, really bad - I cannot overstate how bad it would be.
"Antifa" is like "environmentalist" in that there definitely are people who identify as antifa, there definitely are things that they have in common, but it's a very broad term and there's no real process of membership. I have been in a thousand person Charlottesville solidarity march where everyone was chanting "we are all antifa". Were we all wearing black and carrying weapons? Of course not. I'd like to think most of us would be willing to clock a Nazi if the need arose, but most of us - like most people, antifa or not - do not preferentially seek out hitting as a problem-solving technique.
I mean, if "wears black, has worn a bandanna at protests while also wearing black and has at least once in their life physically scuffled with Nazis or cops" means that one is part of a gang, everyone in my immediate social circle is a gang member.
It's proof once again that wealthy, powerful liberals hate the left as much as or more than they hate the right. Anyone with a grain of sense can see that this "antifa are a gang" thing is either stupid or evil - it would obviously be used very very broadly against the left, just as saying that "environmentalists" are a gang would be. Anyone who asserts that "antifa" are a gang is either ignorant or malicious.
posted by Frowner at 11:44 AM on August 30, 2017 [80 favorites]
Oh there he goes, he just had to work in the glad-handing first. I wonder if he'll mention how he repealed Obama's flood rules a week ago? At least he's saying something I guess, even if it's obvious he's only doing it because it's expected.
posted by Justinian at 11:46 AM on August 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 11:46 AM on August 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
This is in a factory, so does that mean this is pretty much staff only? The applause seems somewhat muted and polite, so I'm guessing yes. Also, I'd hate to be an anti-Trump employee there, either having to go or feeling like I should if I didn't want to stand out.
posted by Rykey at 11:49 AM on August 30, 2017
posted by Rykey at 11:49 AM on August 30, 2017
"I want to praise the hardworking men and women in the audience!"
"You mean we're getting tax cuts too?"
"Oh good lord, no. No. Ha ha, oh man. No not you."
posted by FakeFreyja at 11:51 AM on August 30, 2017 [21 favorites]
"You mean we're getting tax cuts too?"
"Oh good lord, no. No. Ha ha, oh man. No not you."
posted by FakeFreyja at 11:51 AM on August 30, 2017 [21 favorites]
That's just it. I wish there was a way to get it through the thick skulls of racists and neo-Nazis that the policies liberal Democrats want to implement will benefit everyone. Things like single-payer health care, full employment, universal basic income - we all, whatever the race, creed or gender - stand to benefit. We're all Americans, and all in this together.
Here's the thing. These people are reacting based on past experience. BECAUSE of the incredibly strict limitations put on social benefits at the demand of the GOP, people who are just slightly better off, with jobs, are turned away from lots of welfare. So they hear welfare and think "not for me." Therefore they demand even stricter requirements and vetting to make sure no one less deserving than them gets it.
To change minds we need to enact some TRULY universal social programs ala social security and Medicare that AREN'T income dependent. Obamacare was just one more where people slightly better off and healthy saw a lack of assistance (especially in GOP controlled states that rejected the Medicaid expansion) and felt like they got screwed. (I will forever bitterly laugh at an able-bodied person complaining about how expensive their healthcare is because they pay like $200/month, when that's a fraction of the cost of one of my household's meds, but...)
So yes, we need to tell people these programs help everyone, but first we need to design programs that ACTUALLY HELP EVERYONE instead of bowing to GOP pressure about making sure the recipients are properly "deserving."
posted by threeturtles at 11:51 AM on August 30, 2017 [26 favorites]
Here's the thing. These people are reacting based on past experience. BECAUSE of the incredibly strict limitations put on social benefits at the demand of the GOP, people who are just slightly better off, with jobs, are turned away from lots of welfare. So they hear welfare and think "not for me." Therefore they demand even stricter requirements and vetting to make sure no one less deserving than them gets it.
To change minds we need to enact some TRULY universal social programs ala social security and Medicare that AREN'T income dependent. Obamacare was just one more where people slightly better off and healthy saw a lack of assistance (especially in GOP controlled states that rejected the Medicaid expansion) and felt like they got screwed. (I will forever bitterly laugh at an able-bodied person complaining about how expensive their healthcare is because they pay like $200/month, when that's a fraction of the cost of one of my household's meds, but...)
So yes, we need to tell people these programs help everyone, but first we need to design programs that ACTUALLY HELP EVERYONE instead of bowing to GOP pressure about making sure the recipients are properly "deserving."
posted by threeturtles at 11:51 AM on August 30, 2017 [26 favorites]
The applause on "crushing tax burden on our companies and our workers" seemed pretty tepid, which is what tends to happen when you lead with corporate tax cuts. They're cheering quite loudly for the boss though, who Trump just made stand up. He also made Ivanka stand up randomly.
So far, pretty strict telepromptering.
posted by zachlipton at 11:52 AM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
So far, pretty strict telepromptering.
posted by zachlipton at 11:52 AM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
Holy shit he's talking about how other countries are unhappy when GDP growth is "down to 7%". Is he stupid? I think he's stupid?
OK moron, let me spell this out for you; there's a difference between a developing nation and a fully developed nation.
posted by Justinian at 11:53 AM on August 30, 2017 [23 favorites]
OK moron, let me spell this out for you; there's a difference between a developing nation and a fully developed nation.
posted by Justinian at 11:53 AM on August 30, 2017 [23 favorites]
Watching the American people get swindled again.
The rich will get their tax cuts and the growth figures won't be anywhere near what he promises.
posted by Talez at 11:53 AM on August 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
The rich will get their tax cuts and the growth figures won't be anywhere near what he promises.
posted by Talez at 11:53 AM on August 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
Trump relating now how troubled he was all these years watching American workers get further and further behind. Yeah, I could hear the heartfelt emotion in his voice.
And all we need to do is hit 10 percent GDP growth per year. Easy!
posted by Rykey at 11:55 AM on August 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
And all we need to do is hit 10 percent GDP growth per year. Easy!
posted by Rykey at 11:55 AM on August 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
I can only hope the CBO step up and say "you're going to blow a giant fucking hole in the budget".
posted by Talez at 11:58 AM on August 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Talez at 11:58 AM on August 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
The pay raise needs to come from wages not taxes you orange blowhole.
posted by Talez at 11:58 AM on August 30, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by Talez at 11:58 AM on August 30, 2017 [16 favorites]
The 1986 tax reform plan he's praising is something he slammed all through the 80s and 90s for causing a recession and making him go broke.
posted by zachlipton at 11:58 AM on August 30, 2017 [49 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:58 AM on August 30, 2017 [49 favorites]
This is disgusting.
posted by Talez at 12:00 PM on August 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Talez at 12:00 PM on August 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
Calling for McCaskill to be voted out of office now.
posted by Rykey at 12:01 PM on August 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Rykey at 12:01 PM on August 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
Is it legal for him to campaign against McCaskill like that at a taxpayer-funded event? This isn't a campaign rally.
posted by zachlipton at 12:02 PM on August 30, 2017 [31 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:02 PM on August 30, 2017 [31 favorites]
Is it legal for him to campaign against McCaskill like that at a taxpayer-funded event? This isn't a campaign rally.
Does it really matter?
posted by Talez at 12:04 PM on August 30, 2017 [24 favorites]
Does it really matter?
posted by Talez at 12:04 PM on August 30, 2017 [24 favorites]
Trump: if we can't renegotiate NAFTA, we'll terminate it.
posted by Rykey at 12:05 PM on August 30, 2017
posted by Rykey at 12:05 PM on August 30, 2017
Lower taxes mean higher wages? If that was happening we would have seen wages rise since we cut taxes massively since the '60s.
Trickle down makes its roaring comeback.
posted by Talez at 12:07 PM on August 30, 2017 [28 favorites]
Trickle down makes its roaring comeback.
posted by Talez at 12:07 PM on August 30, 2017 [28 favorites]
Yeah, his attacks on Claire McCaskill are so inappropriate. It's truly hard to imagine any other sitting President trash-talking a sitting Senator while visiting her state. At this point it feels redundant to say THIS IS NOT NORMAL, but seriously. He's a hideous garbage clown.
posted by the turtle's teeth at 12:08 PM on August 30, 2017 [61 favorites]
posted by the turtle's teeth at 12:08 PM on August 30, 2017 [61 favorites]
The chyron on MSNBC says:
posted by Justinian at 12:08 PM on August 30, 2017 [100 favorites]
TRUMP PRAISES REAGAN-ERA TAX REFORM (ONCE CALLED IT A DISASTER THAT RUINED ECONOMY)Guess the producers are all out of evens.
posted by Justinian at 12:08 PM on August 30, 2017 [100 favorites]
Gee, I wonder if he is, maybe, just repeating what other people told him to say.
posted by Melismata at 12:11 PM on August 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 12:11 PM on August 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
"Its stated purpose was to provide a venue for attendees to be heard above what Stewart described as the more vocal and extreme 15–20% of Americans who "control the conversation" of American politics."
In retrospect, that sounds a bit like "bad people on many sides".
On the contrary, it sounds much more like "trying to reach out to the NOT-bad people on both sides".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:12 PM on August 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
In retrospect, that sounds a bit like "bad people on many sides".
On the contrary, it sounds much more like "trying to reach out to the NOT-bad people on both sides".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:12 PM on August 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
TRUMP PRAISES REAGAN-ERA TAX REFORM (ONCE CALLED IT A DISASTER THAT RUINED ECONOMY)
TRUMP PRAISES WHATEVER IS USEFUL IN THE MOMENT (DOESN'T KNOW WHAT IT MEANS)
posted by jason_steakums at 12:12 PM on August 30, 2017 [73 favorites]
TRUMP PRAISES WHATEVER IS USEFUL IN THE MOMENT (DOESN'T KNOW WHAT IT MEANS)
posted by jason_steakums at 12:12 PM on August 30, 2017 [73 favorites]
"Let's put the partisan posturing behind us." LOLOLOL
posted by Rykey at 12:13 PM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Rykey at 12:13 PM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
> Jesus fucking Christ, did the New York Times seriously give Erik Prince a spot in the Opinion section to talk about how Trump should appoint him Viceroy of Afghanistan? Disgusting.
sorry, marge, the mob has spoken
posted by tonycpsu at 12:18 PM on August 30, 2017 [13 favorites]
sorry, marge, the mob has spoken
posted by tonycpsu at 12:18 PM on August 30, 2017 [13 favorites]
Well, that was useless AF. Taxes will be lower, which means more jobs and a unicorn for every American. The one specific thing he said that wasn't just flat out false is that he wants a corporate tax rate of 15%, but it sounds like even he knows he can't have that. At no point did he acknowledge any link whatsoever besides tax rates and the budget or at any time display an understanding that the government not only collects money, but spends it as well. His grand populist idea is that we cut corporate tax rates, and he'll just keep repeating the claim that will lead to higher wages until people start to believe it.
Oh, and Gary Cohn, who made the trip, got snubbed.
posted by zachlipton at 12:20 PM on August 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
Oh, and Gary Cohn, who made the trip, got snubbed.
posted by zachlipton at 12:20 PM on August 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
I do think that, based on recent experiences, the Ethics Office needs more power than it’s had before, because its functions depended on a White House that wanted to support the ethics program.
It's long past time for another branch of government that is like an independent Internal Affairs, it's just stupid that the executive has control over not just the OGE but also has the ultimate control over the Marshals, nominally officers beholden to the courts who will inevitably find themselves stuck in the middle of the courts and the executive. Not to mention the incredibly thin wire by which Mueller's entire operation is hanging. Checking and balancing a branch like that might be difficult but it's worth the effort.
posted by jason_steakums at 12:21 PM on August 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's long past time for another branch of government that is like an independent Internal Affairs, it's just stupid that the executive has control over not just the OGE but also has the ultimate control over the Marshals, nominally officers beholden to the courts who will inevitably find themselves stuck in the middle of the courts and the executive. Not to mention the incredibly thin wire by which Mueller's entire operation is hanging. Checking and balancing a branch like that might be difficult but it's worth the effort.
posted by jason_steakums at 12:21 PM on August 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
More care should be taken to distinguish Antifa and Blac Bloc (sp?) but sure, there are shitheads on the left (who some think might be agents provocateur but might also be essentially vandals who just like to smash things up).
There's no point in claiming everyone on the left is a saint, but that's miles away from equating Antifa and neo-nazis. Thankfully Trump got killed even by Republicans when he did equate them, but let's not surrender to B&W thinking. That's the Right's natural home.
posted by msalt at 12:27 PM on August 30, 2017 [11 favorites]
There's no point in claiming everyone on the left is a saint, but that's miles away from equating Antifa and neo-nazis. Thankfully Trump got killed even by Republicans when he did equate them, but let's not surrender to B&W thinking. That's the Right's natural home.
posted by msalt at 12:27 PM on August 30, 2017 [11 favorites]
Animated skeleton Ann Coulter hated the tax speech, apparently: "Oh stop pretending this is about letting "families" keep more of their money. HALF OF AMERICANS DONT PAY TAXES! This is for Wall Street."
[real, but also confusing]
In a series of tweets she seems to say that: a. Jeb could have done better, b. Trump is too concerned with "helping yuppie women with child care costs," and c. that he should only focus on corporate taxes (and building the wall).
she called it the "most tone-deaf speech" he has ever given, although apparently for very different reasons than I would have.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 12:31 PM on August 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
[real, but also confusing]
In a series of tweets she seems to say that: a. Jeb could have done better, b. Trump is too concerned with "helping yuppie women with child care costs," and c. that he should only focus on corporate taxes (and building the wall).
she called it the "most tone-deaf speech" he has ever given, although apparently for very different reasons than I would have.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 12:31 PM on August 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
The chyron on MSNBC says: TRUMP PRAISES REAGAN-ERA TAX REFORM (ONCE CALLED IT A DISASTER THAT RUINED ECONOMY)
The chyrons got more pointed.
TRUMP TALKS TAXES AS GULF DEATH TOLL CLIMBS TO 19
posted by chris24 at 12:35 PM on August 30, 2017 [68 favorites]
The chyrons got more pointed.
TRUMP TALKS TAXES AS GULF DEATH TOLL CLIMBS TO 19
posted by chris24 at 12:35 PM on August 30, 2017 [68 favorites]
To follow-up with my own comment above, when lower-income but still out-of-poverty whites DO try to get benefits, they run into the MASSES of red tape and waiting lists and litmus tests that the GOP has put in place and get angry about government bureaucracy. I'm speaking as someone who has done intake for more than one kind of public benefit and has dealt with this right wing "but where is my free cadillac, why is there a waiting list I'm in need" attitude WAY too often.
It's almost like half of the government is trying to sabotage the entire enterprise from the inside, creating a Catch-22 where they have to make the government suck in order to prove how much the government sucks.
posted by threeturtles at 12:37 PM on August 30, 2017 [39 favorites]
It's almost like half of the government is trying to sabotage the entire enterprise from the inside, creating a Catch-22 where they have to make the government suck in order to prove how much the government sucks.
posted by threeturtles at 12:37 PM on August 30, 2017 [39 favorites]
It's almost like half of the government is trying to sabotage the entire enterprise from the inside, creating a Catch-22 where they have to make the government suck in order to prove how much the government sucks
Well, yes. The GOP gets elected by claiming the government can't get anything done, and then has to prove it.
posted by suelac at 12:39 PM on August 30, 2017 [36 favorites]
Well, yes. The GOP gets elected by claiming the government can't get anything done, and then has to prove it.
posted by suelac at 12:39 PM on August 30, 2017 [36 favorites]
2017: [real, but also confusing]
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:39 PM on August 30, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:39 PM on August 30, 2017 [34 favorites]
The POTUS is hawking hats at a natural disaster.
posted by Oyéah at 12:46 PM on August 30, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 12:46 PM on August 30, 2017 [9 favorites]
CNN (on disaster empathy): "this speech was different—the President used the word people" [real, slight paraphrase]
posted by sylvanshine at 12:46 PM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by sylvanshine at 12:46 PM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
CNN: "this speech was different—the President used the word people" [real, slight paraphrase]
Boy I can't wait for the 2020 election when CNN goes all "Perfectly normal President Trump vs some Democrat with impeccable credentials we can't really be sure we can trust"
posted by jason_steakums at 12:52 PM on August 30, 2017 [37 favorites]
Boy I can't wait for the 2020 election when CNN goes all "Perfectly normal President Trump vs some Democrat with impeccable credentials we can't really be sure we can trust"
posted by jason_steakums at 12:52 PM on August 30, 2017 [37 favorites]
I'm trying to imagine a parallel situation, maybe of Dubya standing on the rubble at Ground Zero and advertising his new 9-11 Memorial Caps, but I just can't muster it up, and that's even considering how low I hold him in my esteem.
o.o
posted by darkstar at 12:55 PM on August 30, 2017 [10 favorites]
o.o
posted by darkstar at 12:55 PM on August 30, 2017 [10 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump, 30 Oct 2012:
Not only giving out money, but Obama will be seen today standing in water and rain like he is a real President --- don't fall for it.posted by kirkaracha at 1:01 PM on August 30, 2017 [19 favorites]
Boy I can't wait for the 2020 election
Good news, bad news: you don't have to wait, it's already here.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:04 PM on August 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
I know the thread has moved on at this point but I just saw
This is a political catch-all thread so I can share that I just learned that The Young Turks featuring former Armenian Genocide-denier Cenk Uygur are named after the group that committed the Armenian Genocide and my head is spinning
and I wanted to say holy shit.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:04 PM on August 30, 2017 [20 favorites]
This is a political catch-all thread so I can share that I just learned that The Young Turks featuring former Armenian Genocide-denier Cenk Uygur are named after the group that committed the Armenian Genocide and my head is spinning
and I wanted to say holy shit.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:04 PM on August 30, 2017 [20 favorites]
Not only giving out money, but Obama will be seen today standing in water and rain like he is a real President --- don't fall for it.
from the replies to that tweet:
from the replies to that tweet:
Brooks Sherman 📚+✊Verified account @byobrooks 30 Oct 2012posted by tivalasvegas at 1:05 PM on August 30, 2017 [13 favorites]
@JentheAmazing Oh, please. What is he going to do? Tell me I'm fired? :) I can handle The Hair. @sarahlapolla @byseanferrell
avarant @avarant Aug 29
Reporting from the future.... Dear god. I have news for you.
@realDonaldTrump, 31 Oct 2012:
Obama is now standing in a puddle acting like a President--give me a break.posted by kirkaracha at 1:10 PM on August 30, 2017
I mean, it's pretty obvious that his objection there is the "standing in a puddle" part.
posted by Etrigan at 1:18 PM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 1:18 PM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
Lindsey Adler, The Concourse (Deadspin): I'm So Glad Jared And Ivanka Are Miserable In Washington D.C.
There are a lot of infuriating motherfuckers in the Trump administration, but after every bubbling controversy, my strongest ire consistently circles back to Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump. These two are the worst because they’re the ones who pretend not to be the worst, who fancy themselves ambassadors of poise and competency, floating above an ever-spiraling presidential administration and an ever-spiraling country.posted by tonycpsu at 1:19 PM on August 30, 2017 [61 favorites]
So nothing could be more delightful than the news that these sniveling phonies are in the sewers of misery with the rest of us. And if this week’s long, searing story in Vanity Fair is to be believed, that’s exactly where they are. [...]
For Jared and Ivanka, there’s no way out. They are complicit in this administration maybe more than any other people in Trump’s orbit. They will trudge on, hoping to find positive nuggets for which to take credit for and controversies from which to find distance, but despite their naïve and insincere optimism in January, there is no good in this presidency.
They want to be defined by the small, inconsequential victories. But they are defined, in fact, by the president’s biggest failures. Their actions, from the careful wording to leaks to vacations, indicate that only a few months in, they know this, too. The president, it seems, is the only one who doesn’t see Jared and Ivanka for the shitheel fraudsters they really are. May we cheer the harm their greediness brings to their reputations and their happiness.
Some amazing Egg McMuffin action on twitter here
posted by zachlipton at 1:24 PM on August 30, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 1:24 PM on August 30, 2017 [23 favorites]
Another thread, another drawing of a person inb Trumpville. This time it's Sheriff Joe, who I have been aware of for years and who I genuinely think is a monster.
So, Desiccated Monster Joe! Dried out by all the hot sunlight and all the hate. Please feel free to share, download, what have you.
And, as always thanks to the fine folks here who allow me to not go crazy each and every day this travesty lurches on.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 1:40 PM on August 30, 2017 [24 favorites]
So, Desiccated Monster Joe! Dried out by all the hot sunlight and all the hate. Please feel free to share, download, what have you.
And, as always thanks to the fine folks here who allow me to not go crazy each and every day this travesty lurches on.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 1:40 PM on August 30, 2017 [24 favorites]
gucci mane: “I think we should classify them as a gang,” said Arreguin. “They come dressed in uniforms. They have weapons, almost like a militia and I think we need to think about that in terms of our law enforcement approach.”
...
lmao @ "almost like a militia". I find that hilarious, especially when over here in Portland our Republican party is literally using a militia as protection.
Exactly - if an Antifa group labeled themselves as an American Freedom Militia or something appropriately patriotic and wore camo and hunting gear instead, they could possibly fly under the radar for a while, because that kind of group is supported around the country.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:40 PM on August 30, 2017 [10 favorites]
...
lmao @ "almost like a militia". I find that hilarious, especially when over here in Portland our Republican party is literally using a militia as protection.
Exactly - if an Antifa group labeled themselves as an American Freedom Militia or something appropriately patriotic and wore camo and hunting gear instead, they could possibly fly under the radar for a while, because that kind of group is supported around the country.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:40 PM on August 30, 2017 [10 favorites]
Oh, I think a white working-class anti-fascist militia would get shut down double-quick.
they do *not* want working-class whites to find common cause with working-class black and brown folks.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:43 PM on August 30, 2017 [15 favorites]
they do *not* want working-class whites to find common cause with working-class black and brown folks.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:43 PM on August 30, 2017 [15 favorites]
But then they wouldn't be ninjas
posted by mbo at 1:44 PM on August 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by mbo at 1:44 PM on August 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
Rep Adam Schiff: I'm introducing an amendment to prohibit payment of @SecretService funds to Trump businesses. @POTUS should not profit off of the Presidency
posted by Chrysostom at 1:46 PM on August 30, 2017 [105 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 1:46 PM on August 30, 2017 [105 favorites]
To follow-up with my own comment above, when lower-income but still out-of-poverty whites DO try to get benefits, they run into the MASSES of red tape and waiting lists and litmus tests that the GOP has put in place and get angry about government bureaucracy. I'm speaking as someone who has done intake for more than one kind of public benefit and has dealt with this right wing "but where is my free cadillac, why is there a waiting list I'm in need" attitude WAY too often.
And, worse, some of them in my experience believe they are only facing the red tape because they are white (I have literally been told this) while if they were Black someone would come directly to their door to hand them their Cadillac and their bonbons.
posted by Waiting for Pierce Inverarity at 1:49 PM on August 30, 2017 [16 favorites]
And, worse, some of them in my experience believe they are only facing the red tape because they are white (I have literally been told this) while if they were Black someone would come directly to their door to hand them their Cadillac and their bonbons.
posted by Waiting for Pierce Inverarity at 1:49 PM on August 30, 2017 [16 favorites]
To follow-up with my own comment above, when lower-income but still out-of-poverty whites DO try to get benefits, they run into the MASSES of red tape and waiting lists and litmus tests that the GOP has put in place and get angry about government bureaucracy. I'm speaking as someone who has done intake for more than one kind of public benefit and has dealt with this right wing "but where is my free cadillac, why is there a waiting list I'm in need" attitude WAY too often.
Threeturtles, I agree with you 100% and think this is a really good point in both your comments. It's not just with public assistance programs, either - it's with places like the DMV, or the city office where you get your remodeling permits, in general any government office that deals with the public or is responsible to the public. When government offices are understaffed and underfunded, and as a result things don't get done and/or public-facing employees are overworked, surly, and unhelpful, the reaction is "See? Government is bad! Government is inefficient! All government workers care about is collecting a paycheck and sitting on their backsides!"
The solution is more government and more funding - not less - so that government can do its job. And, as threeturtles said, "we need to design programs that ACTUALLY HELP EVERYONE instead of bowing to GOP pressure about making sure the recipients are properly "deserving.""
I'm reminded of an old old AskMeFi that had an anonymous asker wonder if they should take Medicaid - they were eligible but felt qualms about getting on a program that wasn't for "people like them" IIRC. And everyone urged the asker - take the Medicaid! The more everyone who needs these programs uses them, the less they will be for Those People only.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 1:49 PM on August 30, 2017 [31 favorites]
Threeturtles, I agree with you 100% and think this is a really good point in both your comments. It's not just with public assistance programs, either - it's with places like the DMV, or the city office where you get your remodeling permits, in general any government office that deals with the public or is responsible to the public. When government offices are understaffed and underfunded, and as a result things don't get done and/or public-facing employees are overworked, surly, and unhelpful, the reaction is "See? Government is bad! Government is inefficient! All government workers care about is collecting a paycheck and sitting on their backsides!"
The solution is more government and more funding - not less - so that government can do its job. And, as threeturtles said, "we need to design programs that ACTUALLY HELP EVERYONE instead of bowing to GOP pressure about making sure the recipients are properly "deserving.""
I'm reminded of an old old AskMeFi that had an anonymous asker wonder if they should take Medicaid - they were eligible but felt qualms about getting on a program that wasn't for "people like them" IIRC. And everyone urged the asker - take the Medicaid! The more everyone who needs these programs uses them, the less they will be for Those People only.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 1:49 PM on August 30, 2017 [31 favorites]
> And, worse, some of them in my experience believe they are only facing the red tape because they are white
White tape, surely.
Not to be confused with The Whitey Tape.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:51 PM on August 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
White tape, surely.
Not to be confused with The Whitey Tape.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:51 PM on August 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
And everyone urged the asker - take the Medicaid! The more everyone who needs these programs uses them, the less they will be for Those People only.
I regularly use this line of thought on people who are having moral qualms / shame about taking public benefits. It works.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:52 PM on August 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
I regularly use this line of thought on people who are having moral qualms / shame about taking public benefits. It works.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:52 PM on August 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
The opposite of Anti-Fascism is PRO-FASCISM. I would ask anyone who criticizes Anti-Fascism,
"Why they are "Pro-Fascism", and advocating FOR Fascism, given the tragic examples of the Confederacy and Nazism?
posted by mikelieman at 1:52 PM on August 30, 2017 [11 favorites]
"Why they are "Pro-Fascism", and advocating FOR Fascism, given the tragic examples of the Confederacy and Nazism?
posted by mikelieman at 1:52 PM on August 30, 2017 [11 favorites]
their response will be "why are you calling me a fascist I'm not a fascist you're the fascist".
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:54 PM on August 30, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:54 PM on August 30, 2017 [12 favorites]
Justinian: Guess the producers are all out of evens.
Or they're tired of pretending that they have to be polite to Trump when he's anything but polite to them (the media as a whole). I think "fuck you and your 'fake media' campaign" is pretty much where we should be, oh in April? Just throwing out some month in the past because he's been calling anyone who opposes him "fake" for a while now and there hasn't been enough push-back.
I feel like Trump has exposed us to a few Emperor Has No Clothes moments, where we realize that there is so much in the US that operates on good faith and adherence to norms, which Trump and co have no problem exploiting. Everyone's baffled, saying "surely this is too far!" and he goes farther. "But he's the President! Of the United States! We don't do that kind of thing." And then he does. Again.
So stop reporting as usual. Stop quoting him without rejoiner or quick corrections. Just stop. He never cared about the truth, and while it would be impossible to fact-check everything he says, there's enough that's just a flat-out lie that everyone knows is a lie that reporters and editors can insert quick comments, like that one, and carry on with reporting. For example:
Trump: "this is a great crowd! A great turnout" (The auditorium is half full, and had higher attendance for the high school basketball game held here last night.)
Trump: "7% GDP Growth isn't enough!" (The US hasn't had more than 7% GDP growth since 1984, when the US recovered from the early 1980s recession, which worsened under Reagan)
He has some stock talking points, and by now, reporters everywhere should have responses ready at their fingertips, even if they're not typing them out.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:55 PM on August 30, 2017 [22 favorites]
Or they're tired of pretending that they have to be polite to Trump when he's anything but polite to them (the media as a whole). I think "fuck you and your 'fake media' campaign" is pretty much where we should be, oh in April? Just throwing out some month in the past because he's been calling anyone who opposes him "fake" for a while now and there hasn't been enough push-back.
I feel like Trump has exposed us to a few Emperor Has No Clothes moments, where we realize that there is so much in the US that operates on good faith and adherence to norms, which Trump and co have no problem exploiting. Everyone's baffled, saying "surely this is too far!" and he goes farther. "But he's the President! Of the United States! We don't do that kind of thing." And then he does. Again.
So stop reporting as usual. Stop quoting him without rejoiner or quick corrections. Just stop. He never cared about the truth, and while it would be impossible to fact-check everything he says, there's enough that's just a flat-out lie that everyone knows is a lie that reporters and editors can insert quick comments, like that one, and carry on with reporting. For example:
Trump: "this is a great crowd! A great turnout" (The auditorium is half full, and had higher attendance for the high school basketball game held here last night.)
Trump: "7% GDP Growth isn't enough!" (The US hasn't had more than 7% GDP growth since 1984, when the US recovered from the early 1980s recession, which worsened under Reagan)
He has some stock talking points, and by now, reporters everywhere should have responses ready at their fingertips, even if they're not typing them out.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:55 PM on August 30, 2017 [22 favorites]
their response will be "why are you calling me a fascist I'm not a fascist you're the fascist".
The only response I can muster is the Gumpian, "Fascist is as Fascist DOES!"
posted by mikelieman at 1:56 PM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
The only response I can muster is the Gumpian, "Fascist is as Fascist DOES!"
posted by mikelieman at 1:56 PM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
Trot out the Second Amendment and use their own arguments against them. Then, when they invariably rebut that the Second Amendment is for Patriots and not for the likes of liberals who fight Nazis, say, "You know who says exactly that? FASCISTS."
posted by Autumnheart at 1:59 PM on August 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Autumnheart at 1:59 PM on August 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
and there hasn't been enough push-back.
DING DING DING DING
posted by Melismata at 2:00 PM on August 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
DING DING DING DING
posted by Melismata at 2:00 PM on August 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
Besides trying to end net neutrality, the Republican FCC is trying to redefine "broadband" and it could slow rollout of access, let alone improvements, to rural areas (Klint Finley for Wired, Aug. 30, 2017).
If 10 Mb/s average was our goal, we'd drop to #28, down from #14, as of Q3 2015 rankings. And if wireless access counts as broadband access (and "unlimited" data plans are allowed to throttle heavy-data users), you can say goodbye to any hope of rural communities "pulling themselves up by their bootstraps" with the support of the modern internet.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:05 PM on August 30, 2017 [30 favorites]
The National Cable and Telecommunications Association, an industry group, opposed the changes, arguing in a letter to the FCC that 25 mbps wasn't necessary for streaming 4K TV and that the agency's evaluation should be built on current typical broadband usage, not expected future use.Oh no, let's not be forward thinking at all, when planning for infrastructure investments. That's totally how we do it when building roads. "Hey, looks like we have a few more cars driving through this business center today, I think we only need a new turn lane," said no traffic engineer, ever. When you invest in infrastructure, you look 10 to 20, even 30 years out. You don't want to have to re-do your current work in 5 years because you didn't anticipate growth. Knee-jerk reactions to demand won't make us a leader in anything.
If 10 Mb/s average was our goal, we'd drop to #28, down from #14, as of Q3 2015 rankings. And if wireless access counts as broadband access (and "unlimited" data plans are allowed to throttle heavy-data users), you can say goodbye to any hope of rural communities "pulling themselves up by their bootstraps" with the support of the modern internet.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:05 PM on August 30, 2017 [30 favorites]
And for a moment levity, by peaking into the lives of Trump associates: Here Are a Bunch of Trump Inner Circle Amazon Wish Lists, most of which have now been deleted, but we still have the screencaps (Wired, Aug. 30, 2017), and we have this gem:
posted by filthy light thief at 2:10 PM on August 30, 2017 [21 favorites]
I asked Gorka if he has any idea how his email address might have become connected to an apparently unrelated account that shares both his name and his interests. His response: "None at all."File under: Security, No Concept Of
posted by filthy light thief at 2:10 PM on August 30, 2017 [21 favorites]
I for one would strongly support any effort, in this thread and the world in general, to analyze and pay attention to the feelings and motivations and lives and worries and fanfic daydreams of LITERALLY ANYONE other than white Americans and/or Trump voters.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:13 PM on August 30, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:13 PM on August 30, 2017 [25 favorites]
"why are you calling me a fascist I'm not a fascist you're the fascist".
"by the way, heil hitler"
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:15 PM on August 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
"by the way, heil hitler"
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:15 PM on August 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
And, worse, some of them in my experience believe they are only facing the red tape because they are white (I have literally been told this) while if they were Black someone would come directly to their door to hand them their Cadillac and their bonbons.
As described in this piece: PSA: Black People Do Not Go To College For Free
As described in this piece: PSA: Black People Do Not Go To College For Free
Last night, around 9:30 p.m., I tweeted a story about my experience meeting a group of white people who thought Black people went to college for free. An article from the New York Times about the United States Department of Justice's intention to "investigate colleges for discriminating against white applicants" had reminded me of the conversation, now 12 summers old. I was having dinner with a group of my all-white coworkers, and I had just told the table that I was planning to attend college that fall. One of the men nonchalantly revealed that he hadn't applied because for him "it wouldn't be free" like it would be for me. I was startled. So were the 22,000 people who retweeted my story since I shared it.posted by Lexica at 2:18 PM on August 30, 2017 [61 favorites]
Someone needs to setup an Amazon wishlist for Ted Cruz that's just the world's largest collection of soups.
posted by zachlipton at 2:24 PM on August 30, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 2:24 PM on August 30, 2017 [8 favorites]
Metafilter: Shut the fuck up, sit the fuck down, and grow the fuck up, or else fuck the fuck off.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 2:33 PM on August 30, 2017 [53 favorites]
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 2:33 PM on August 30, 2017 [53 favorites]
And one for Chris Christie that consists of Meat Loaf albums, meatloaf pans and seasoning mixes, and various meats and loaves.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:34 PM on August 30, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 2:34 PM on August 30, 2017 [8 favorites]
Besides trying to end net neutrality, the Republican FCC is trying to redefine "broadband" and it could slow rollout of access, let alone improvements, to rural areas (Klint Finley for Wired, Aug. 30, 2017).
the LECs have never had any intention of actually doing anything in exchange for massive subsidies
, you can say goodbye to any hope of rural communities "pulling themselves up by their bootstraps" with the support of the modern internet.
no time for internet when you're working in coal mine for 16 hours a day
posted by entropicamericana at 2:38 PM on August 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
the LECs have never had any intention of actually doing anything in exchange for massive subsidies
, you can say goodbye to any hope of rural communities "pulling themselves up by their bootstraps" with the support of the modern internet.
no time for internet when you're working in coal mine for 16 hours a day
posted by entropicamericana at 2:38 PM on August 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
From the utterly mad AP: House GOP eyeing $1B disaster funds cut to finance wall (yes, [real]):
posted by zachlipton at 2:41 PM on August 30, 2017 [71 favorites]
Trump is slated to meet with congressional leaders next Wednesday. The meeting follows a recess that has seen Trump lambast several top Republicans, especially Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., after the collapse of the GOP health care bill in his chamber. That has wounded the president’s relationship with his own party, and the coming weeks should offer a test of how much clout he has with fellow Republicans.This is how members of his own party are taking about him now.
“You’re not going to bully United States senators, this isn’t the Apprentice,” said Rep. Tom Cole, R-Okla., referring to Trump’s star turn on the reality television show. “You can’t look at them and say you’re fired, you’re going to need their vote and you oughtta remember that they’re going to be at the table in every major deal you need for the next three years. So I just don’t think that’s a productive way to proceed.”
posted by zachlipton at 2:41 PM on August 30, 2017 [71 favorites]
a metaphor that's popular among Trump supporters: that of a long line of people waiting for their piece of the American Dream. For them, justice and equality efforts are like giving other people (undeserving, of course) a cut in line ahead of them.
and they are too fucking dense to see that the "American Dream" is a bullshit fairy tale designed to keep them striving and too stupid to notice that those doling it out are keeping 95% for themselves.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 2:46 PM on August 30, 2017 [17 favorites]
and they are too fucking dense to see that the "American Dream" is a bullshit fairy tale designed to keep them striving and too stupid to notice that those doling it out are keeping 95% for themselves.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 2:46 PM on August 30, 2017 [17 favorites]
Republicans claim they voted down the Sandy relief bill because it was filled with pork. Don't believe them.
And Republicans withheld disaster aid from blue states.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:54 PM on August 30, 2017 [53 favorites]
And Republicans withheld disaster aid from blue states.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:54 PM on August 30, 2017 [53 favorites]
If you'd like your bones to chill, try searching for "wanted to test the right of free speech" (without quotes), which is what the wife of Sinclair Lewis said she went to a Nazi rally to test (and failed).
You might find the results.... quite contemporary... to us.
posted by Yowser at 2:56 PM on August 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
You might find the results.... quite contemporary... to us.
posted by Yowser at 2:56 PM on August 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
the wife of Sinclair Lewis said she went to a Nazi rally
Backgrounder: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Thompson
posted by mikelieman at 3:00 PM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
Backgrounder: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Thompson
posted by mikelieman at 3:00 PM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
So Much for "Antiwar Republicans Elected Trump"
Politico reports:posted by tonycpsu at 3:04 PM on August 30, 2017 [5 favorites]Voters are divided on President Donald Trump’s plans to send more American troops to Afghanistan, according to a new POLITICO/Morning Consult poll.There's a partisan split:
Forty-five percent of voters support increasing U.S. troop levels in Afghanistan, the poll shows — only slightly greater than the 41 percent who oppose the plan. The other 14 percent have no opinion.Backing for a troop increase is greater among Republicans than Democrats or independents. Sixty-eight percent of self-identified GOP voters support increasing the number of troops in Afghanistan, but only 30 percent of Democratic voters and 35 percent of independents agree.But weren't we told that Donald Trump won the presidency because Republican voters have turned antiwar? That's how J.D. Vance, author of the bestseller Hillbilly Elegy, explained Trump's success in the Republican primaries in an April 2016 New York Times op-ed titled "Why Trump’s Antiwar Message Resonates with White America": [...]
Last month, Justin Raimondo of Antiwar.com quoted a study by Francis Shen of the University of Minnesota and Douglas Kriner of Boston University that looked at November's election results and came to essentially the same conclusion: [...]
Republican voters were never antiwar. They'll like indefinite war in Afghanistan for as long as Trump can persuade them that we're the victors.
Re The Young Turks: In 1991 Uygur wrote an article on The Daily Pennsylvanian in which he expressed the opinion that the genocide of Armenians during the late stages of the Ottoman Empire did not in fact constitute genocide, a view he repeated in a letter to the editor of Salon in 1999. In a blog post in April 2016, he rescinded the statements. He went on to claim that he does not know enough today to comment on it.
I'd have more sympathy for this if he didn't have a TV show named after the group committing the genocide. "I don't know anything about the Holocaust and so I won't comment. Anyhoo, let's continue The Schutzstaffel Hour!"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:07 PM on August 30, 2017 [32 favorites]
I'd have more sympathy for this if he didn't have a TV show named after the group committing the genocide. "I don't know anything about the Holocaust and so I won't comment. Anyhoo, let's continue The Schutzstaffel Hour!"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:07 PM on August 30, 2017 [32 favorites]
This is how members of his own party are taking about him now.
Right before they vote with him 100% of the time. There's still only been three Republicans to actually vote against Trump. Three. Total. And no movement towards any congressional oversight functions whatsoever. None. Until that happens literally nothing they say matters at all.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:12 PM on August 30, 2017 [43 favorites]
Right before they vote with him 100% of the time. There's still only been three Republicans to actually vote against Trump. Three. Total. And no movement towards any congressional oversight functions whatsoever. None. Until that happens literally nothing they say matters at all.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:12 PM on August 30, 2017 [43 favorites]
I have been out of regular internet contact for the past few days and the real human news was bad enough that I didn't try to follow up on politics. Today, I got a Daily Kos digest email headed "Trump just got slapped in the face." That header was referring to the big Democratic win in Virginia, but those few words were all I saw. The times are such that for a second I believed this had actually happened.
posted by Countess Elena at 3:12 PM on August 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 3:12 PM on August 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
'We believe in the system': Attorneys stage lunchtime protest of Trump's pardon of Joe Arpaio
More than 150 people rallied outside the Sandra Day O’Connor United States Courthouse Tuesday afternoon to protest President Donald Trump’s pardon of former Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio.posted by chris24 at 3:14 PM on August 30, 2017 [64 favorites]
The protest was mostly composed of current and former judges and lawyers — even a Republican former attorney general.
...
Former Arizona Attorney General Grant Woods said neither Trump nor Arpaio were true conservatives.
“It’s not conservative to abuse the Constitution, and to call people heroes who abuse the Constitution and the rights of American citizens,” Woods said. "It's not conservative to applaud the rule of law and then, when judges act on the rule of law, you go after them personally."
Woods said Trump was incorrect in saying the former sheriff was well-liked in Arizona. “The sheriff was taken out of office by the voters," he said. "He lost big. Bigly.”
“We have to not be afraid to stand up for basic human rights. We have to not be afraid to stand up to bigotry,” he said. “We’re on the right side of history, and in the end we will prevail,” he said to applause from all in attendance.
and they are too fucking dense to see that the "American Dream" is a bullshit fairy tale designed to keep them striving and too stupid to notice that those doling it out are keeping 95% for themselves.
It really is kind of bizarre to have this folk concept, "the American Dream", as if people in other countries don't also want to have a home and food and some opportunity for their kids and a little security. I've been noticing this kind of thing due to exposure to captions about the greatness of America over pictures of citizens with boats helping out with rescues and the like. Now, I have never been in a natural disaster in another country, but I imagine that people probably exert themselves to help their community and neighbors there, too. It's like social media is a machine for converting news into Lee Greenwood MIDIs.
posted by thelonius at 3:15 PM on August 30, 2017 [19 favorites]
It really is kind of bizarre to have this folk concept, "the American Dream", as if people in other countries don't also want to have a home and food and some opportunity for their kids and a little security. I've been noticing this kind of thing due to exposure to captions about the greatness of America over pictures of citizens with boats helping out with rescues and the like. Now, I have never been in a natural disaster in another country, but I imagine that people probably exert themselves to help their community and neighbors there, too. It's like social media is a machine for converting news into Lee Greenwood MIDIs.
posted by thelonius at 3:15 PM on August 30, 2017 [19 favorites]
Oh, I think a white working-class anti-fascist militia would get shut down double-quick.
Redneck Revolt is that group, and they've been around for a little over a year with chapters all over the country, and growing.
This is why I do believe in issues-focused movements overall. It really is possible to speak to social issues that many demographics are facing without having to burn powder assuaging specific demographics and their fever dreams about white genocide.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 3:17 PM on August 30, 2017 [14 favorites]
Redneck Revolt is that group, and they've been around for a little over a year with chapters all over the country, and growing.
This is why I do believe in issues-focused movements overall. It really is possible to speak to social issues that many demographics are facing without having to burn powder assuaging specific demographics and their fever dreams about white genocide.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 3:17 PM on August 30, 2017 [14 favorites]
and there hasn't been enough push-back
The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly as necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else.-- Teddy Roosevelt (emphasis added)
posted by kirkaracha at 3:31 PM on August 30, 2017 [40 favorites]
Et tu, Fox News?
FOX: Fox News Poll: Voters' mood sours, 56 percent say Trump tearing country apart
FOX: Fox News Poll: Voters' mood sours, 56 percent say Trump tearing country apart
Voter satisfaction with the direction of the nation is down by double digits, as a majority says President Donald Trump is tearing the country apart. That’s according to the latest Fox News Poll.posted by chris24 at 3:36 PM on August 30, 2017 [24 favorites]
The number of voters happy with how things are going in the country is down 10 percentage points since April and stands at just 35 percent. It hasn’t been that low since 2013. At the same time, dissatisfaction jumped to 64 percent -- an 11-point increase.
That shift is not, as is often the case, tied to the economy. Positive views on the economy are higher than in more than a decade: 36 percent say it is in either “excellent” (6 percent) or “good” (30 percent) shape. The last time conditions were rated this positively was August 2004.
The same isn’t true for Trump. His job ratings are increasingly negative -- and 56 percent feel Trump’s “tearing the country apart,” versus 33 percent who say he’s “drawing the country together.”
About two-thirds of Republicans feel Trump is drawing the country together (68 percent), while 15 percent say tearing the country apart and 18 percent are unsure. Nearly all Democrats (93 percent) and over half of independents (59 percent) say Trump is tearing the country apart.
In addition, a record 55 percent of voters disapprove of the job he’s doing as president, while 41 percent approve. That’s a net negative by 14 points and his worst score to-date.
Fox News poll? That's gonna leave a mark.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:37 PM on August 30, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 3:37 PM on August 30, 2017 [14 favorites]
...In my urban area, for instance, there are lots of doctors but people can't afford them. In outstate MN, people can't afford doctors - and there aren't any...
posted by Frowner at 9:27 AM on August 30 [17 favorites +] [!]
Both problems UMN is trying to solve, but the state has been stingy with resources in direct proportion to control of the government by the GOP. Why the GOP hates America, I do not know.
posted by Mental Wimp at 3:37 PM on August 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Frowner at 9:27 AM on August 30 [17 favorites +] [!]
Both problems UMN is trying to solve, but the state has been stingy with resources in direct proportion to control of the government by the GOP. Why the GOP hates America, I do not know.
posted by Mental Wimp at 3:37 PM on August 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
About two-thirds of Republicans feel Trump is drawing the country together (68 percent), while 15 percent say tearing the country apart and 18 percent are unsure.
68% sounds (and is) horrifying, but that's actually really low for GOP presidential support. Sub-75% is supposedly the Danger Zone. Boy!
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:38 PM on August 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
68% sounds (and is) horrifying, but that's actually really low for GOP presidential support. Sub-75% is supposedly the Danger Zone. Boy!
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:38 PM on August 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
Legal challenge to Arpaio pardon begins (WaPo, Jennifer Rubin (@JRubinBlogger))
Put simply, the argument is that the president cannot obviate the court’s powers to enforce its orders when the constitutional rights of others are at stake.posted by kingless at 3:39 PM on August 30, 2017 [72 favorites]
Sure, they're starting to dislike Trump but come on, it's not like they're gonna vote for a demoncrat.
posted by Justinian at 3:41 PM on August 30, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 3:41 PM on August 30, 2017 [10 favorites]
I'm sure anti-war Republicans did vote for Trump. It's just that there are only like 5 or 6 anti-war Republicans, tops.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:41 PM on August 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:41 PM on August 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
Some more info from the Fox poll.
Since February, Trump has lost the most ground with:
- Conservatives (-7pts)
- Republican men (-9pts)
- Whites without a college degree (-9pts)
posted by chris24 at 3:41 PM on August 30, 2017 [9 favorites]
Since February, Trump has lost the most ground with:
- Conservatives (-7pts)
- Republican men (-9pts)
- Whites without a college degree (-9pts)
posted by chris24 at 3:41 PM on August 30, 2017 [9 favorites]
Sure, they're starting to dislike Trump but come on, it's not like they're gonna vote for a demoncrat.
While it would be great if even a few of them did, what's more likely and would be fantastic for D chances is if say 10% stayed home in 2018. If enthusiasm/anger on our side and disappointment/apathy on their side evens up midterm turnout a bit, could be huge.
posted by chris24 at 3:44 PM on August 30, 2017 [10 favorites]
While it would be great if even a few of them did, what's more likely and would be fantastic for D chances is if say 10% stayed home in 2018. If enthusiasm/anger on our side and disappointment/apathy on their side evens up midterm turnout a bit, could be huge.
posted by chris24 at 3:44 PM on August 30, 2017 [10 favorites]
OK, wtf white women? Are you paying attention? Did you drop him before February?
posted by puddledork at 3:46 PM on August 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by puddledork at 3:46 PM on August 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
What is wrong with these people?
Eric Trump says his father ‘tunes out’ criticism so he doesn’t commit suicide ‘out of depression’ (Eric Dolan, Raw Story)
On preview:
FOX: Fox News Poll: Voters' mood sours, 56 percent say Trump tearing country apart
We know how Trump has ruined everything, but seriously, how awful do you have to be to ruin The Room?
posted by Room 641-A at 3:46 PM on August 30, 2017 [60 favorites]
Eric Trump says his father ‘tunes out’ criticism so he doesn’t commit suicide ‘out of depression’ (Eric Dolan, Raw Story)
“I mean, just the evilness and the hatred in that world is unlike anything I could have fathomed before. And no matter what he does, they’re going to hit him on it and they’re going to go after him, and it’s the swamp and it’s a corrupt system.”He is saying that with thousands of years of human impression and suffering, he couldn't imagine how dark the world could be until his garbage father started getting criticized for being a garbage president.
On preview:
FOX: Fox News Poll: Voters' mood sours, 56 percent say Trump tearing country apart
We know how Trump has ruined everything, but seriously, how awful do you have to be to ruin The Room?
posted by Room 641-A at 3:46 PM on August 30, 2017 [60 favorites]
OK moron, let me spell this out for you; there's a difference between a developing nation and a fully developed nation.
Trump is going to prove you wrong.
By undeveloping a developed nation.
posted by srboisvert at 3:47 PM on August 30, 2017 [39 favorites]
Trump is going to prove you wrong.
By undeveloping a developed nation.
posted by srboisvert at 3:47 PM on August 30, 2017 [39 favorites]
Encouraging swathes of Republicans to throw their hands up in exhausted, disgusted frustration, and stay home in 2018 (and, if Trump sticks around, 2020) is something that the rest of us can and must achieve. This is much more achievable than getting them to vote Democrat.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:49 PM on August 30, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:49 PM on August 30, 2017 [30 favorites]
I am not Hitler! I am not. Oh heil Mark.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:50 PM on August 30, 2017 [52 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:50 PM on August 30, 2017 [52 favorites]
Eric Trump says his father ‘tunes out’ criticism so he doesn’t commit suicide ‘out of depression’
He'd last a picosecond if he suddenly found himself with even boring everyday middle class problems, let alone the shit the vast majority of people deal with.
posted by jason_steakums at 3:54 PM on August 30, 2017 [27 favorites]
He'd last a picosecond if he suddenly found himself with even boring everyday middle class problems, let alone the shit the vast majority of people deal with.
posted by jason_steakums at 3:54 PM on August 30, 2017 [27 favorites]
I prefer the friendlier "Hi, Hitler!"
posted by kirkaracha at 3:54 PM on August 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 3:54 PM on August 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
It really is kind of bizarre to have this folk concept, "the American Dream", as if people in other countries don't also want to have a home and food and some opportunity for their kids and a little security.
But other countries didn't have the PR firm of Crevecoeur, who explicitly tied labor, prosperity, and the assurance that one's children would be better educated and more materially secure than oneself to American exceptionalism. And the rest is history.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:54 PM on August 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
But other countries didn't have the PR firm of Crevecoeur, who explicitly tied labor, prosperity, and the assurance that one's children would be better educated and more materially secure than oneself to American exceptionalism. And the rest is history.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:54 PM on August 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
The Occasional Dana: Jake Tapper Tweets:
Thread re: Rohrabacher saying 'rendezvous' being set up w/Trump to relay info from WikiLeaks' Assange on DNC hackposted by notyou at 3:56 PM on August 30, 2017 [25 favorites]
2/ Two Congressional sources tell me Senate Intl Cmte investigators may want to talk to Rep Rohrabacher about his meeting with Assange
3/ Senate Intel Cmte investigators are trying to figure out how to proceed given that Rohrabacher is a fellow Member of Congress
It really is kind of bizarre to have this folk concept, "the American Dream", as if people in other countries don't also want to have a home and food and some opportunity for their kids and a little security.
There was a time when the American Dream as an exceptional sort of notion made more sense. When so many immigrants left their own countries (maybe in the 1800s or early-to-mid 1900s) to come to the US, they found a place where there might have been greater class mobility / permeability than where they came from. They found a standard of living for the average American greater than where they came from, too, so that the few dollars they could afford to send back to relatives in the old country actually made a huge difference. They were able to find a manufacturing job with little formal education that they could stick with for 40 years, retire with a pension, have bowling leagues and barbecues, and in the meantime feather a decent nest, have a car, and raise a family and afford to feed, clothe and send their kids to college.
That made coming to the US a compelling dream for many people. Indeed, it's still a dream for many people, hence the various immigration issues. It's just that many of those economic opportunities - especially the stable manufacturing jobs and the ability to get the ones that remain without a college education - no longer exist.
Of course, similar opportunities existed in many other countries, too! But the US has had an enormous PR engine (Hollywood being - heh - paramount). So while similar economic opportunity might be found in Canada, for example, the US became iconic among immigration destination.
I love this country, warts and all. But if I were a foreign immigrant deciding where I wanted to transition my whole future lineage for now and evermore, the US might not be where I'd prioritize. At least at this point in history. Once we get universal health care, state-sponsored higher education, and a half a dozen other issues ironed out, and get a better handle on some of the strange racial demons that continue to bedevil us, I'd feel more certain of my choice to emigrate here.
Or, I'd certainly prioritize a blue state, if possible.
posted by darkstar at 4:06 PM on August 30, 2017 [25 favorites]
There was a time when the American Dream as an exceptional sort of notion made more sense. When so many immigrants left their own countries (maybe in the 1800s or early-to-mid 1900s) to come to the US, they found a place where there might have been greater class mobility / permeability than where they came from. They found a standard of living for the average American greater than where they came from, too, so that the few dollars they could afford to send back to relatives in the old country actually made a huge difference. They were able to find a manufacturing job with little formal education that they could stick with for 40 years, retire with a pension, have bowling leagues and barbecues, and in the meantime feather a decent nest, have a car, and raise a family and afford to feed, clothe and send their kids to college.
That made coming to the US a compelling dream for many people. Indeed, it's still a dream for many people, hence the various immigration issues. It's just that many of those economic opportunities - especially the stable manufacturing jobs and the ability to get the ones that remain without a college education - no longer exist.
Of course, similar opportunities existed in many other countries, too! But the US has had an enormous PR engine (Hollywood being - heh - paramount). So while similar economic opportunity might be found in Canada, for example, the US became iconic among immigration destination.
I love this country, warts and all. But if I were a foreign immigrant deciding where I wanted to transition my whole future lineage for now and evermore, the US might not be where I'd prioritize. At least at this point in history. Once we get universal health care, state-sponsored higher education, and a half a dozen other issues ironed out, and get a better handle on some of the strange racial demons that continue to bedevil us, I'd feel more certain of my choice to emigrate here.
Or, I'd certainly prioritize a blue state, if possible.
posted by darkstar at 4:06 PM on August 30, 2017 [25 favorites]
“I mean, just the evilness and the hatred in that world is unlike anything I could have fathomed before. And no matter what he does, they’re going to hit him on it and they’re going to go after him, and it’s the swamp and it’s a corrupt system.”
There's a quick, easy way out.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:12 PM on August 30, 2017 [8 favorites]
There's a quick, easy way out.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:12 PM on August 30, 2017 [8 favorites]
Eric Trump says his father ‘tunes out’ criticism so he doesn’t commit suicide ‘out of depression’
Sad!
posted by entropicamericana at 4:20 PM on August 30, 2017 [23 favorites]
Sad!
posted by entropicamericana at 4:20 PM on August 30, 2017 [23 favorites]
There's a quick, easy way out.
and solidly backed by a constitutional amendment!
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 4:24 PM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
and solidly backed by a constitutional amendment!
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 4:24 PM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
Decorated Marine vet may be deported, despite likely U.S. citizenship
I don't even understand what I'm reading.
posted by Yowser at 4:28 PM on August 30, 2017 [43 favorites]
I don't even understand what I'm reading.
posted by Yowser at 4:28 PM on August 30, 2017 [43 favorites]
Mnuchin conceded that rewriting the tax code is a taller order than he initially imagined.
So, supposed financial wizard Mnuchin turns out to be an idiot as well as POTUS.
posted by Mental Wimp at 4:31 PM on August 30, 2017 [9 favorites]
So, supposed financial wizard Mnuchin turns out to be an idiot as well as POTUS.
posted by Mental Wimp at 4:31 PM on August 30, 2017 [9 favorites]
Some news: Sen. Harris will co-sponsor the Medicaid for all bill: "someone should tell my staff," she says.
posted by zachlipton at 4:32 PM on August 30, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 4:32 PM on August 30, 2017 [29 favorites]
Maybe someone who could be driven to suicide by criticism shouldn't have nuclear launch codes...
posted by guiseroom at 4:35 PM on August 30, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by guiseroom at 4:35 PM on August 30, 2017 [19 favorites]
That should have said "Medicare For All." This is why I'm not a journalist.
posted by zachlipton at 4:39 PM on August 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 4:39 PM on August 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm a straight white man who grew up in South Dakota in an evangelical, Republican home. I was a Republican for 20 years. So I don't view white men as a monolith or beyond hope, because if that was true I'd be fighting for the other side.
I grew up in Sioux Falls with a very right-wing father who was a Reagan fan and a delegate to the GOP convention during his first run. My mother was also leaned that way. Oddly enough, they raised us to be liberal in values, but politically right wingers. I had a subscription to National Review and regularly read Human Events when I was home. I espoused Buckleyian values and argued vociferously with my liberal friends. In college, I started widening my reading palette, meeting people from other walks of life, and learning more directly about how the world works. That's basically all it took to change my worldview. By the middle of my freshman year I was demonstrating against the war and arguing with my parents about a range of topics, including poverty, the war, drugs, economics, and individual liberties.
The problem is that people can maintain their bubble if leaving it induces anxiety. And it does for the vast majority of us, especially those on the right whose philosophy is driven by anxieties.
posted by Mental Wimp at 4:47 PM on August 30, 2017 [12 favorites]
I grew up in Sioux Falls with a very right-wing father who was a Reagan fan and a delegate to the GOP convention during his first run. My mother was also leaned that way. Oddly enough, they raised us to be liberal in values, but politically right wingers. I had a subscription to National Review and regularly read Human Events when I was home. I espoused Buckleyian values and argued vociferously with my liberal friends. In college, I started widening my reading palette, meeting people from other walks of life, and learning more directly about how the world works. That's basically all it took to change my worldview. By the middle of my freshman year I was demonstrating against the war and arguing with my parents about a range of topics, including poverty, the war, drugs, economics, and individual liberties.
The problem is that people can maintain their bubble if leaving it induces anxiety. And it does for the vast majority of us, especially those on the right whose philosophy is driven by anxieties.
posted by Mental Wimp at 4:47 PM on August 30, 2017 [12 favorites]
This is why I'm not a journalist.
Honey, you'll always be our journalist.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:57 PM on August 30, 2017 [20 favorites]
Honey, you'll always be our journalist.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:57 PM on August 30, 2017 [20 favorites]
Trump doesn't really seem like a "be nice to people on your way up because you’ll meet ’em on your way down" kind of person. He's shit all over people for decades that had to take it because he was rich and powerful. If he shows any vulnerability the shivs will come out.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:57 PM on August 30, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 4:57 PM on August 30, 2017 [18 favorites]
In a Letter To Congress, Trump Lawyer ‘Vehemently’ Denies Russian Collusion
"I strenuously object?" Is that how it works? Hm? "Objection." "Overruled." "Oh, no, no, no. No, I strenuously object." "Oh. Well, if you strenuously object then I should take some time to reconsider."
posted by kirkaracha at 5:00 PM on August 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
Politico is reporting that Mueller and his team are working with the AG of New York, Eric Schneiderman.
The obvious implication is that Trump can't pardon state crimes.
posted by Justinian at 5:01 PM on August 30, 2017 [58 favorites]
The obvious implication is that Trump can't pardon state crimes.
posted by Justinian at 5:01 PM on August 30, 2017 [58 favorites]
Bah I suck bad. How do you people learn this stuff so fast. HOW.
posted by Justinian at 5:02 PM on August 30, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 5:02 PM on August 30, 2017 [9 favorites]
Ah, good, I will not sink into a pit of angst!
posted by Justinian at 5:06 PM on August 30, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 5:06 PM on August 30, 2017 [16 favorites]
"I strenuously object?" Is that how it works? Hm? "Objection." "Overruled." "Oh, no, no, no. No, I strenuously object." "Oh. Well, if you strenuously object then I should take some time to reconsider."
Well once we ask him three times he has to tell us the truth.
posted by Talez at 5:08 PM on August 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
Well once we ask him three times he has to tell us the truth.
posted by Talez at 5:08 PM on August 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
This paragraph about Akhmetshin is weird as hell:
posted by zachlipton at 5:08 PM on August 30, 2017 [25 favorites]
Mr Akhmetshin set out details of the meeting, saying that Ms Veselnitskaya brought with her a dossier about “how bad money ended up in Manhattan and that money was put into supporting political campaigns”.I mean, that sounds like he's saying she told Don Jr., Jared, and Manafort about laundered money winding up in political campaigns. That seems significant.
posted by zachlipton at 5:08 PM on August 30, 2017 [25 favorites]
worse, some of them in my experience believe they are only facing the red tape because they are white
So, responding this stuff is difficult, because in many cases when trying to access social services, they aren't wrong that they are having a harder time getting help specifically because they are white. I say this as a former social worker who has spent years screening for homelessness services. And I think it's important not to gaslight them: they are in fact having a much harder time getting assistance.
Where they are wrong is /why/ this is happening, and it is happening for a few reasons, most of which are related to resiliency factors.
Being white is a resiliency factor, because you are discriminated against less for common poverty problems. Having a home rather than renting is a resiliency factor, because it will take them much longer, and a court case, to evict you, and you often have equity in the home. Having family that is moderately well off is a resiliency factor, because even if you don't want to go to them, you often have that option when times are really hard.
So yes. You get screened for resiliency factors, and being white is one of them and is clustered with a lot of other ones, making you less likely to get safety net assistance than the black family making the same amount of money next to you. But it's not, as I think some people think, because "they like those people better", but rather because the safety net is designed not for the people who can easily bounce back with a little assistance, but rather for the people who will be horribly fucked without it.
posted by corb at 5:15 PM on August 30, 2017 [12 favorites]
So, responding this stuff is difficult, because in many cases when trying to access social services, they aren't wrong that they are having a harder time getting help specifically because they are white. I say this as a former social worker who has spent years screening for homelessness services. And I think it's important not to gaslight them: they are in fact having a much harder time getting assistance.
Where they are wrong is /why/ this is happening, and it is happening for a few reasons, most of which are related to resiliency factors.
Being white is a resiliency factor, because you are discriminated against less for common poverty problems. Having a home rather than renting is a resiliency factor, because it will take them much longer, and a court case, to evict you, and you often have equity in the home. Having family that is moderately well off is a resiliency factor, because even if you don't want to go to them, you often have that option when times are really hard.
So yes. You get screened for resiliency factors, and being white is one of them and is clustered with a lot of other ones, making you less likely to get safety net assistance than the black family making the same amount of money next to you. But it's not, as I think some people think, because "they like those people better", but rather because the safety net is designed not for the people who can easily bounce back with a little assistance, but rather for the people who will be horribly fucked without it.
posted by corb at 5:15 PM on August 30, 2017 [12 favorites]
I've told before how when I applied for Social Security Disability a dozen years ago, I was participating in a chat with several other applicants, some of whom were appealing rejections and where the assumed standard was "on the second or third try". I was accepted on the first try and faster than I had even hoped for, and I was the only White Male in the group. I don't know about others, but that was the final confirmation that my White Maleness was my most valuable asset. Period.
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:23 PM on August 30, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:23 PM on August 30, 2017 [11 favorites]
Every time I see news coverage of a protest I remember this image
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:26 PM on August 30, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:26 PM on August 30, 2017 [27 favorites]
Justinian: "Bah I suck bad. How do you people learn this stuff so fast. HOW."
One good source is Political Wire.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:26 PM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
One good source is Political Wire.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:26 PM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
Early approval of SSDI is oftentimes a matter of simply having access to medical evidence to prove your case. Having had insurance at some point recently, having a spouse still working, having at least a tiny bit of resources to literally pay for the doctor to make copies, that can be the difference between a quick approval or a years long appeal. White males are more likely to have one or more of those things, but it's not likely the whiteness itself making the difference. Trust me plenty of white males get denied too.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:33 PM on August 30, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:33 PM on August 30, 2017 [9 favorites]
Men might also have more straightforward ailments that fit neatly into SSDI decision trees as women are often under- or mis-diagnosed.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:38 PM on August 30, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 5:38 PM on August 30, 2017 [14 favorites]
once again we see that the way to do politics is to completely accept all politicians as they are and never pressure them
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:44 PM on August 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:44 PM on August 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
I have wanted to write this for a 1 1/2 years, especially since the GOP convention. It is not my intent to go off-thread or repeat what anybody else has expressed. I do think that some of the experience shadows Trump's character, how he is (or was) able to influence others and his general response to uncomfortable issues.
About 15 years ago I was in a bad spot financially. A friend of mine gives me free tickets to attend a "How to Make Money and Increase Your Wealth" event at the Los Angeles Convention Center. It's taking place over a weekend. The funny thing she says to me is "Whatever you do, keep you ass in your seat" I really don't really have a clue as to what she is talking about.
The event begins Friday night. It looks as if there were many lower/middle class people there. I will say that the crowd was a 2/3 mix between blacks and hispanics. The pitchman is pretty-well known and, initially, is very welcoming, asking who has traveled the furthest. He picks out 7-8 people who have their hands raised, welcoming them graciously and begining to get the whole group open, involved and bonded, explaining what will transpire over the weekend.
Saturday I began to see how the program begins playing out. After an initial welcome andcharming greeting, he begins to literally start the hard sell by threat. This is what happens to you if you don't buy my book and learn how to acquire wealth. I learn later that a massive quantity of these book are sold cheaply by the publisher (hello, Ben Carson) and they are then sold at slightly cheaper then retail rates by the author or at events like this. He appeals to us to help him get on the New York Times best seller list, which of course makes us want to feel we are personally involved. I am thinking "this is total B.S." until he finishes his pitch. To my shock a large amount of the audience gets up and goes to the back of the room to buy the book. I am thinking "WTF? Don't they know they are being taken by this guy?" I also realize what my friend meant. This is how the rest of the day went. Selling these different classes, workshop, on-line seminars, book discounts if you buy two or more. I stand in the back of the room was thinking that this audiences response to the pitchman is no difference to the Nuremberg Rallies response to Hitler. I wonder if they are pumping in oxygen like they do at Vegas casinos. Then to my horror, I find myself, as they continually get up and go to the back of the room en masse, and want to go with the marks. I realize that I do not want to feel as if I am being left behind. I still stay in my chair.
He breaks the groups down bonding us more. He goes on about investing in China, Storage property, etc. I begin to experience that whatever questions I think and wonder about, and when I question his tactics (I am not speaking any of this, mind you) He heads me off pass and answers the questions. It's as if he is reads my mind. It is as if he has explores people defenses and has every contingency plan ready to meet these defenses. My defenses drop more and more.
That night there is a Q and A. One hispanic woman stands up and calls him on his sh*t saying, "You want us to buy your stuff, do all this work and I feel that I and my community are being taken for a ride." She is the only one who speaks out. By the end of the night, I am crying, I don't have the money for what he offers. I feel I am being left behind.
Sunday morning, we gather. One of the first things he asks is whether the woman who questioned him the night before is in the audience. She's not. Once he finds out she is not, he gets angry and screams "She's a loser" He continues to lose it for a moment as he explain why, and for us to not be a loser like that. He goes in and out of charm making people feel good, then pitching fear, having answers and secrets that we would have to pay for, and all these people getting up to purchase the items in the back of the room. It's inevitable. "If you don't buy, you are a loser and you'll be left behind"
By the time the event ends on Sunday, everyone has something to take home This includes me. It is an abundance game I can play on my laptop. For the next three weeks they are pitch me products on line. I finally get fed up and ask them to take me off their mailing list. I then get one last e-mail back from them. All it says is "You're a loser" They have to get the last word.
Some examples in past 1 1/2 year that match this event and salesmen/hustlers like this man and Trump is...
1) Trump University
2) GOP Convention (with emphasis on fear and how he has the answer for it)
3) Emphasis on losers and losing and how he is not
4) Lack of commitment to anything (Kiyosaki pitches that we all think we/there are two aspects to a coin (Heads, tails) when there are 3 (Heads, tails and the edge) they edge is the catbird seat where watch the other two and commit to nothing until it works to your advantage. He also pitches he is big on financial market prediction.) I can roll with "edge" idea. Not when it's co-opted by a**holes (due respect to a**holes)
5) Book sales (Trump, Carson, so many others)
6) No one makes him look bad
7) People who are predisposed to evangelical churches eat this stuff up. Outside of content of the gathering, the energy and structure of these events is not much different than an evangelical mass. The gathering and devotion is church to them this is ingrained through repetition, and literally, muscle memory.
This was a long one. I hope it is of benefit and interest to MeFites
posted by goalyeehah at 5:45 PM on August 30, 2017 [157 favorites]
About 15 years ago I was in a bad spot financially. A friend of mine gives me free tickets to attend a "How to Make Money and Increase Your Wealth" event at the Los Angeles Convention Center. It's taking place over a weekend. The funny thing she says to me is "Whatever you do, keep you ass in your seat" I really don't really have a clue as to what she is talking about.
The event begins Friday night. It looks as if there were many lower/middle class people there. I will say that the crowd was a 2/3 mix between blacks and hispanics. The pitchman is pretty-well known and, initially, is very welcoming, asking who has traveled the furthest. He picks out 7-8 people who have their hands raised, welcoming them graciously and begining to get the whole group open, involved and bonded, explaining what will transpire over the weekend.
Saturday I began to see how the program begins playing out. After an initial welcome andcharming greeting, he begins to literally start the hard sell by threat. This is what happens to you if you don't buy my book and learn how to acquire wealth. I learn later that a massive quantity of these book are sold cheaply by the publisher (hello, Ben Carson) and they are then sold at slightly cheaper then retail rates by the author or at events like this. He appeals to us to help him get on the New York Times best seller list, which of course makes us want to feel we are personally involved. I am thinking "this is total B.S." until he finishes his pitch. To my shock a large amount of the audience gets up and goes to the back of the room to buy the book. I am thinking "WTF? Don't they know they are being taken by this guy?" I also realize what my friend meant. This is how the rest of the day went. Selling these different classes, workshop, on-line seminars, book discounts if you buy two or more. I stand in the back of the room was thinking that this audiences response to the pitchman is no difference to the Nuremberg Rallies response to Hitler. I wonder if they are pumping in oxygen like they do at Vegas casinos. Then to my horror, I find myself, as they continually get up and go to the back of the room en masse, and want to go with the marks. I realize that I do not want to feel as if I am being left behind. I still stay in my chair.
He breaks the groups down bonding us more. He goes on about investing in China, Storage property, etc. I begin to experience that whatever questions I think and wonder about, and when I question his tactics (I am not speaking any of this, mind you) He heads me off pass and answers the questions. It's as if he is reads my mind. It is as if he has explores people defenses and has every contingency plan ready to meet these defenses. My defenses drop more and more.
That night there is a Q and A. One hispanic woman stands up and calls him on his sh*t saying, "You want us to buy your stuff, do all this work and I feel that I and my community are being taken for a ride." She is the only one who speaks out. By the end of the night, I am crying, I don't have the money for what he offers. I feel I am being left behind.
Sunday morning, we gather. One of the first things he asks is whether the woman who questioned him the night before is in the audience. She's not. Once he finds out she is not, he gets angry and screams "She's a loser" He continues to lose it for a moment as he explain why, and for us to not be a loser like that. He goes in and out of charm making people feel good, then pitching fear, having answers and secrets that we would have to pay for, and all these people getting up to purchase the items in the back of the room. It's inevitable. "If you don't buy, you are a loser and you'll be left behind"
By the time the event ends on Sunday, everyone has something to take home This includes me. It is an abundance game I can play on my laptop. For the next three weeks they are pitch me products on line. I finally get fed up and ask them to take me off their mailing list. I then get one last e-mail back from them. All it says is "You're a loser" They have to get the last word.
Some examples in past 1 1/2 year that match this event and salesmen/hustlers like this man and Trump is...
1) Trump University
2) GOP Convention (with emphasis on fear and how he has the answer for it)
3) Emphasis on losers and losing and how he is not
4) Lack of commitment to anything (Kiyosaki pitches that we all think we/there are two aspects to a coin (Heads, tails) when there are 3 (Heads, tails and the edge) they edge is the catbird seat where watch the other two and commit to nothing until it works to your advantage. He also pitches he is big on financial market prediction.) I can roll with "edge" idea. Not when it's co-opted by a**holes (due respect to a**holes)
5) Book sales (Trump, Carson, so many others)
6) No one makes him look bad
7) People who are predisposed to evangelical churches eat this stuff up. Outside of content of the gathering, the energy and structure of these events is not much different than an evangelical mass. The gathering and devotion is church to them this is ingrained through repetition, and literally, muscle memory.
This was a long one. I hope it is of benefit and interest to MeFites
posted by goalyeehah at 5:45 PM on August 30, 2017 [157 favorites]
So yes. You get screened for resiliency factors, and being white is one of them and is clustered with a lot of other ones, making you less likely to get safety net assistance than the black family making the same amount of money next to you.
Are you saying that you did screening for an assistance program where race was explicitly one of the factors determining eligibility?
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:45 PM on August 30, 2017 [17 favorites]
Are you saying that you did screening for an assistance program where race was explicitly one of the factors determining eligibility?
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:45 PM on August 30, 2017 [17 favorites]
Eric Trump says his father ‘tunes out’ criticism so he doesn’t commit suicide ‘out of depression’
This has been said a million times, but this Trumpian cognitive dissonance is astounding. He spent how many years criticizing Obama for eating crackers and thinks the Presidency isn't going to be subject to 24/7, 365 criticism? This makes me want to shake him by the imaginary lapels and shout "you knew this was going to happen and if you didn't you're a... a thing that I don't even know what to call."
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:46 PM on August 30, 2017 [31 favorites]
This has been said a million times, but this Trumpian cognitive dissonance is astounding. He spent how many years criticizing Obama for eating crackers and thinks the Presidency isn't going to be subject to 24/7, 365 criticism? This makes me want to shake him by the imaginary lapels and shout "you knew this was going to happen and if you didn't you're a... a thing that I don't even know what to call."
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:46 PM on August 30, 2017 [31 favorites]
Early approval of SSDI is oftentimes a matter of simply having access to medical evidence to prove your case.
i got denied, basically because i wasn't sick long enough, which i wasn't expecting to happen - (congestive heart failure - i was in pretty bad shape - but you are supposed to be unable to work for a year in most cases and i was back just within 6 months )
also, a long time ago, i had to go for medicaid for a hernia operation - they tried to deny me because i was in my room by myself and i protested - it's not MY fault they didn't put anyone in the other bed
all i can say is they don't make it easy for people
posted by pyramid termite at 5:46 PM on August 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
i got denied, basically because i wasn't sick long enough, which i wasn't expecting to happen - (congestive heart failure - i was in pretty bad shape - but you are supposed to be unable to work for a year in most cases and i was back just within 6 months )
also, a long time ago, i had to go for medicaid for a hernia operation - they tried to deny me because i was in my room by myself and i protested - it's not MY fault they didn't put anyone in the other bed
all i can say is they don't make it easy for people
posted by pyramid termite at 5:46 PM on August 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
@WangCecillia: BREAKING: Federal court has enjoined most of Texas's anti-immigrant #SB4 law. Holds it's likely blocked provisions are unconstitutional.
And in California politics news, State Senator de León, president of the Senate, attacked Sen. Feinstein:
Meanwhile, Sen. Harris just did an entire town hall (about which I might have more to say later) without really ever once talking about Russia, despite being directly asked about it in a question read by the moderator (granted, she may not have heard that part of the question) and despite sitting on the Senate Intelligence Committee. That part was substantially less than optimal.
posted by zachlipton at 5:53 PM on August 30, 2017 [53 favorites]
And in California politics news, State Senator de León, president of the Senate, attacked Sen. Feinstein:
"I don't think children who breathe dirty air can afford patience," he said. "The LGBT worker or woman losing their rights by the day or the black student who could be assaulted on the street, they can't afford patience. DREAMers who are unsure of their fate in this country can't afford patience. Even a Trump voter who is still out of work can't afford to be patient."Sen. Feinstein, for her part, issued a "clarification" that just doubles down on her gullibility:
De León also said that "this president has not shown any capacity to learn and proven he is not fit for office."
"The duty of the American president is to bring people together, not cater to one segment of a political base; to solve problems, not campaign constantly," Feinstein said. "While I'm under no illusion that it's likely to happen and will continue to oppose his policies, I want President Trump to change for the good of the country."And when you ask de León's staff whether he'll run against Feinstein (he's termed out of the state Senate), he's not denying it.
Meanwhile, Sen. Harris just did an entire town hall (about which I might have more to say later) without really ever once talking about Russia, despite being directly asked about it in a question read by the moderator (granted, she may not have heard that part of the question) and despite sitting on the Senate Intelligence Committee. That part was substantially less than optimal.
posted by zachlipton at 5:53 PM on August 30, 2017 [53 favorites]
Add another potential obstruction charge to the pile!
Stephanie Kirchgaessner, The Guardian; Trump makes policy pledge to senator investigating son's Russia meeting
Stephanie Kirchgaessner, The Guardian; Trump makes policy pledge to senator investigating son's Russia meeting
Donald Trump called a senior Republican senator from Iowa on Wednesday whose congressional committee is investigating his son, Donald Trump Jr, and promised him critical federal support for the biofuel ethanol, a key issue for the lawmaker.posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 5:57 PM on August 30, 2017 [32 favorites]
Chuck Grassley, the chairman of the Senate judiciary committee and a major advocate of the ethanol industry, announced on Twitter that he had received a phone call from Trump and had been assured by the US president that Trump was “pro ethanol” and was “standing by his campaign promise” to support the biofuel.
The phone call came less than a day after CNN reported that Trump’s eldest son had reached an agreement with the committee to appear in a private session and answer investigators’ questions.
I was hoping that LA mayor Garcetti would challenge Feinstein, but I guess he's putting out Presidential feelers now.
posted by xyzzy at 6:03 PM on August 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by xyzzy at 6:03 PM on August 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
I was hoping that LA mayor Garcetti would challenge Feinstein, but I guess he's putting out Presidential feelers now.
lol too late bro the nomination is kamala's if she wants it (SPOILER: she does)
posted by entropicamericana at 6:05 PM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
lol too late bro the nomination is kamala's if she wants it (SPOILER: she does)
posted by entropicamericana at 6:05 PM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
Garcetti is too close to Carcetti anyway, then I think about Littlefinger. Littlefinger cannot be President.
posted by Justinian at 6:09 PM on August 30, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 6:09 PM on August 30, 2017 [14 favorites]
Garcetti seems to be waffling between going for prez and going for CA governor.
I think being a big city mayor would be pretty good training for the Oval Office, but we haven't had one in quite some time (Teddy Roosevelt, I think).
posted by Chrysostom at 6:14 PM on August 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think being a big city mayor would be pretty good training for the Oval Office, but we haven't had one in quite some time (Teddy Roosevelt, I think).
posted by Chrysostom at 6:14 PM on August 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
I worked as a mental health councelor in Mississippi many years ago, ostensibly as a children's therapist , but things being how they were, as a "whoever walked through the door" therapist. One afternoon, a Black man of about 50 walked in needing help for depression and well, just life. The man had worked in logging since he was old enough to work, and he'd lost his left arm at the shoulder on the job a while back and was finding it hard to cope. He'd been through the Medicaid mill three times, I think, by the time he saw me, and had been rejected three times because he "could find work in an office environment," and such bullshit. I remember being incensed at the ridiculousness of it, and thinking, how many dollars could be redirected towards actually HELPING people if there wasn't this damn dance of applying, being rejected, applying, being rejected, getting a lawyer, applying..... There's a damn cottage industry of Medicaid lawyers in these small southern towns. I swear, giving EVERY applicant Medicaid immediately would be cheaper on the whole than this crazy fucked up system. This man lost his arm ON THE JOB and, well, here he sat. This is anecdotal, and remembered years later, but. And do you know it wasn't until just now it occurred to me that his race might have played a part in this farce? This kind of stupidity was rampant in the population I served, regardless of race, and too, in my area, the people on the very front lines of making these decisions--the receptionists and case workers--are very often Black women. The "system" is a fucking farce. I felt overwhelmed and frustrated then, and I'm sitting here now feeling just beaten. I wonder how that man is doing now.
posted by thebrokedown at 6:16 PM on August 30, 2017 [48 favorites]
posted by thebrokedown at 6:16 PM on August 30, 2017 [48 favorites]
All that those states had to do was say 'yes' when they were invited to expand Medicaid in 2013, and the Federal government would have covered almost the entire cost of Medicaid for their low-income citizens.
When we look back on this decade, I think we'll see this as the cruelest policy decision made by our leaders.
Well, wait -- I retract that for fear of angering the writers.
It's probably the cruelest to date, at least.
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:20 PM on August 30, 2017 [41 favorites]
When we look back on this decade, I think we'll see this as the cruelest policy decision made by our leaders.
Well, wait -- I retract that for fear of angering the writers.
It's probably the cruelest to date, at least.
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:20 PM on August 30, 2017 [41 favorites]
This makes me want to shake him by the imaginary lapels and shout "you knew this was going to happen and if you didn't you're a... a thing that I don't even know what to call."
massive fucking dumbass is the term of art, I believe
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:23 PM on August 30, 2017 [9 favorites]
massive fucking dumbass is the term of art, I believe
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:23 PM on August 30, 2017 [9 favorites]
Politico: Pittsburgh focus group tanks Trump
posted by Chrysostom at 6:26 PM on August 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 6:26 PM on August 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
Re the CA Governor race, this was overshadowed by 15 billion other things but a few weeks ago Ted Lieu endorsed Treasurer John Chiang.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:27 PM on August 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Room 641-A at 6:27 PM on August 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
ELECTIONS NEWS
** 2018 Senate -- NYT: Trump-y candidates threatening GOP chances to widen Senate lead. The same analysis you read here from me yesterday!
** VA gov -- Threatened government shutdown would likely be a boost for Northam. [Economist]
** Election integrity -- Judge not impressed by Kobach commission failure to properly publicly post documents.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:39 PM on August 30, 2017 [27 favorites]
** 2018 Senate -- NYT: Trump-y candidates threatening GOP chances to widen Senate lead. The same analysis you read here from me yesterday!
** VA gov -- Threatened government shutdown would likely be a boost for Northam. [Economist]
** Election integrity -- Judge not impressed by Kobach commission failure to properly publicly post documents.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:39 PM on August 30, 2017 [27 favorites]
So yes. You get screened for resiliency factors, and being white is one of them and is clustered with a lot of other ones
Where is this documented?
posted by Coventry at 6:43 PM on August 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
Where is this documented?
posted by Coventry at 6:43 PM on August 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
Are you saying that you did screening for an assistance program where race was explicitly one of the factors determining eligibility?
Yes. When I was doing the coordinated intake forms at my most recent homeless service location, it was an intersectionality-inspired points system, and you had to make a certain amount of points to be eligible for financial assistance. Being a racial minority that was historically disadvantaged gave you either 3 or 5 points on the form, and I believe being LGBT gave you 2 points. It wasn't explicitly made clear to the participants that it was one of the factors, or even that it was a points system at all, but it was absolutely one of the factors.
posted by corb at 6:49 PM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yes. When I was doing the coordinated intake forms at my most recent homeless service location, it was an intersectionality-inspired points system, and you had to make a certain amount of points to be eligible for financial assistance. Being a racial minority that was historically disadvantaged gave you either 3 or 5 points on the form, and I believe being LGBT gave you 2 points. It wasn't explicitly made clear to the participants that it was one of the factors, or even that it was a points system at all, but it was absolutely one of the factors.
posted by corb at 6:49 PM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
But this was for homeless assistance/sheltering, not welfare or medicaid or SSI disability so I don't see how your insistence that welfare discriminates against white people tracks?
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 6:52 PM on August 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 6:52 PM on August 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
It's still quite surprising to me, although I suppose a private agency has more leeway to establish criteria like that. I can't imagine a public entity or publicly-funded program being able to do that, particularly since affirmative action has basically been found unconstitutional.
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:55 PM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:55 PM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
My particular experience was a program that was federally funded, but administered by a private organization - I wasn't trying to suggest this is the case with every portion of the social safety net, and it may not happen with fully federal places - but just that in many cases help is administered through this kind of public-private partnership, where things get a bit wibbly.
posted by corb at 7:01 PM on August 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by corb at 7:01 PM on August 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
Sure, they're starting to dislike Trump but come on, it's not like they're gonna vote for a demoncrat.
No problem, they only have to vote for impeachment (or not get mad at congresspeople who do). Folks can spin it as "yay Pence," "he was never really a Republican," "sad decline," "former Democrat," whatever.
posted by msalt at 7:08 PM on August 30, 2017
No problem, they only have to vote for impeachment (or not get mad at congresspeople who do). Folks can spin it as "yay Pence," "he was never really a Republican," "sad decline," "former Democrat," whatever.
posted by msalt at 7:08 PM on August 30, 2017
> Politico: Pittsburgh focus group tanks Trump
Fuck. These. Jagoffs.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:10 PM on August 30, 2017 [87 favorites]
Fuck. These. Jagoffs.
Brian Rush, a registered Republican, said he voted for Trump as a way of sticking it to the status quo, but not because the president would have been his first choice.Well which is it, pal? The status quo is Presidents who act presidential, but you picked the "grab 'em by the pussy" guy. And now you're complaining that he's not presidential? And what about this guy made you think he'd be "calm" (lol) and "focused" (lolol)?
“I look at a president to be presidential, someone who is calm, focused. Ronald Reagan came in as an actor, but he goes down as one of our better presidents,” he said. “He came in not as a politician. In some aspects, [Trump is] almost turning into a politician in a different way, saying things he thinks his base wants to hear. He’s let me down.”
Christina Lees, a Republican leaning independent, said she’d gotten tired of Trump.Yeah, putting the guy you think is a nut in charge of the largest economy and military was a great plan, but the guy you think is a nut just didn't... stop being a nut. Whadyagonnado?
“We know he’s a nut. Everyone knew he was a nut. But there comes a point in time when you have to become professional. He’s not professional, forget about presidential,” she said.
Russell Stit, a Republican whose age was listed as 65-75, said he was a huge supporter of Trump’s "Make America Great Again" slogan and what he felt it represented.Turns out slogans don't actually make the government function! Who knew?
Eight months in, he’s confused.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:10 PM on August 30, 2017 [87 favorites]
** VA gov -- Threatened government shutdown would likely be a boost for Northam. [Economist]
If anyone is following the Va gubernatorial election, the other news is that Ed Gillespie has hired on one of Corey Stewart's pro-confederate advisors as his Southwest Virginia field director. This nutbar says that we're already in a new civil war and the movement to remove confederate statues is being led by communists. With a new fundraising push, Gillespie's position on the statues seems to have turned from "localities should decide (wink, wink)" to "don't erase our history." Jennifer Rubin calls this "as repulsive as it is predictable" and does a decent job explaining how his new position will cost him votes in the places he needs them most:
If anyone is following the Va gubernatorial election, the other news is that Ed Gillespie has hired on one of Corey Stewart's pro-confederate advisors as his Southwest Virginia field director. This nutbar says that we're already in a new civil war and the movement to remove confederate statues is being led by communists. With a new fundraising push, Gillespie's position on the statues seems to have turned from "localities should decide (wink, wink)" to "don't erase our history." Jennifer Rubin calls this "as repulsive as it is predictable" and does a decent job explaining how his new position will cost him votes in the places he needs them most:
This in a nutshell is the story of the GOP in Virginia and the country at large. Too afraid to oppose race-baiters and white-grievance mongers such as Trump, they adopt a “If you can’t beat them, join them” attitude. In doing so, they forfeit their own integrity and make the entire party offensive to everyone else — even to those who might embrace some of their economic positions. If Trump can turn Ed Gillespie into a Confederate flag-waver, then the GOP really has lost any claim to be the Party of Lincoln.posted by peeedro at 7:19 PM on August 30, 2017 [16 favorites]
Judge temporarily blocks ‘sanctuary cities’ law (Texas Tribune/Raw Story)
1) the mayor of Houston said he would personally defend any immigrant being harassed for seeking shelter and
2) Governor Shithead (sp?) Abbot is planning to appeal.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:25 PM on August 30, 2017 [18 favorites]
A federal district judge on Wednesday ruled against the state of Texas and halted a controversial state-based immigration enforcement law just days before it was scheduled to go into effect.Two things, according to Maddow:
U.S. District Judge Orlando Garcia granted a preliminary injunction of Senate Bill 4, one of Gov. Greg Abbott’s key legislative priorities that seeks to outlaw “sanctuary” entities, the common term for governments that don’t enforce federal immigration laws. [...]
His decision is a temporary, but significant blow to Abbott and other Republican backers of the bill who said it would help keep Texans safe from undocumented immigrants that have been arrested on criminal charges but released from custody by sheriffs or other elected officials who refuse to hold the alleged criminals for possible deportation.
1) the mayor of Houston said he would personally defend any immigrant being harassed for seeking shelter and
2) Governor Shithead (sp?) Abbot is planning to appeal.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:25 PM on August 30, 2017 [18 favorites]
Gillespie still scares me because he doesn't personally have a track record of insanity like Ken Kookinelli or Corey Stewart and came extremely close to upsetting alleged-sure-thing incumbent faceless-stiff Mark Warner. VA should be blue, McAuliffe won close but NoVA has only grown bigger and bluer in 5 years, even before Trump galvanized every young professional in the Greater DC area to get involved. But Northam isn't well known and could be vulnerable to a moderate business type Republican with no obviously disqualifying marks against him. If Gillespie is tacking towards the racists, it's really hard to see how that helps him actually win the general.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:28 PM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:28 PM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
Gov. Abbot is why it wasn't a great idea to genetically modify humans to nourish themselves on spite and human misery.
posted by Talez at 7:29 PM on August 30, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Talez at 7:29 PM on August 30, 2017 [12 favorites]
I've just had a thought. Do y'all think the reason we have Trump is because of Dubya? He was president for eight years, and we all called him an idiot day in and day out. So maybe Republicans decided "well, if that idiot can be president, I guess it's not that hard." I mean, ok, he left terribly unpopular, but I just saw a study today that says 40% of Republicans think Obama was president for Katrina, so....these people have terrible memories I guess.
I do think that people thought being President wasn't that hard. Dubya had a bunch of people doing all the work behind the scenes and just waved and looked sad mostly at the appropriate times. Of course the first person to swallow the idea that any idiot could do the job was Trump himself.
posted by threeturtles at 8:24 PM on August 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
I do think that people thought being President wasn't that hard. Dubya had a bunch of people doing all the work behind the scenes and just waved and looked sad mostly at the appropriate times. Of course the first person to swallow the idea that any idiot could do the job was Trump himself.
posted by threeturtles at 8:24 PM on August 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
I've just had a thought. Do y'all think the reason we have Trump is because of Dubya? He was president for eight years, and we all called him an idiot day in and day out. So maybe Republicans decided "well, if that idiot can be president, I guess it's not that hard."
I actually think it's more likely that we all called Dubya an idiot day in and day out, and Republicans decided, "Man, fuck those guys," and elected Trump out of spite.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:29 PM on August 30, 2017 [16 favorites]
I actually think it's more likely that we all called Dubya an idiot day in and day out, and Republicans decided, "Man, fuck those guys," and elected Trump out of spite.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:29 PM on August 30, 2017 [16 favorites]
> Republicans decided, "Man, fuck those guys," and elected Trump out of spite.
That feeling when half a country decides to cut off their noses to spite their faces...
I hope those working class white men with economic anxiety enjoyed the TrumpCare preview, and are going to enjoy the corporate tax cuts.
posted by RedOrGreen at 8:34 PM on August 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
That feeling when half a country decides to cut off their noses to spite their faces...
I hope those working class white men with economic anxiety enjoyed the TrumpCare preview, and are going to enjoy the corporate tax cuts.
posted by RedOrGreen at 8:34 PM on August 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
That should have said "Medicare For All." This is why I'm not a journalist.
Ok, I have gone back and checked. Sen. Harris misspoke and said "Medicaid" instead of "Medicare." I am not crazy.
She was responding to a question about Medicaid at the very end of the town hall, and I think she was expecting to have a big moment where a Bernie fan demanded she support Medicare for All. That never happened, perhaps because she didn't take very many questions, but she ended on this, was exchanging facts with the questioner about the importance of Medicaid, and then she misspoke when she made the announcement.
Anyway, now that I'm suitably vindicated, I don't have that much more to say about the town hall. She's still super impressive and gave a really nice opening speech that was a nice mix of anger at what's happening ("I'm trying to figure out a new word for troubled because I find myself saying 'that's troubling' a lot. In fact a friend of mine said, 'just call it a hot mess.'") and optimism, with some clear lines drawn out for her next priorities: protecting DACA and cash bail reform (which she's working on with Sen. Paul) high on the list. She also, completely unprompted, brought up how important the Census is in 2020, particularly as Trump hasn't appointed a Director and his efforts to make marginalized groups fear the government will decrease participation; and honestly, any politician who goes on an unprompted pro-Census riff gets major points in my book.
If she's running for another office, she has to learn to get better at giving more clear, punchy answers to questions from the public. She also didn't have to deal with anything remotely acrimonious—this was a hometown Berkeley crowd that loved her—, so I didn't get a chance to see how she handles more difficult situations or attacks.
There was one funny moment worth mentioning. We had a woman who stood up to ask a question, and started by explaining she owned a local retail business. Sen. Harris encouraged her to plug her business, and she did: "it's a sex shop in Oakland." Many cheers from the audience as the Senator clearly wasn't expecting that. She was jokingly fanning herself with a piece of paper and threw out a jocular "I'm sorry Reverend" to the pastor hosting us.
And, as I mentioned earlier, she said nothing about Russia. That was incredibly disappointing. She's built a national reputation for her tough questioning on the Intelligence Committee. You'd think she would want to tout that work a little bit.
posted by zachlipton at 8:43 PM on August 30, 2017 [21 favorites]
Ok, I have gone back and checked. Sen. Harris misspoke and said "Medicaid" instead of "Medicare." I am not crazy.
She was responding to a question about Medicaid at the very end of the town hall, and I think she was expecting to have a big moment where a Bernie fan demanded she support Medicare for All. That never happened, perhaps because she didn't take very many questions, but she ended on this, was exchanging facts with the questioner about the importance of Medicaid, and then she misspoke when she made the announcement.
Anyway, now that I'm suitably vindicated, I don't have that much more to say about the town hall. She's still super impressive and gave a really nice opening speech that was a nice mix of anger at what's happening ("I'm trying to figure out a new word for troubled because I find myself saying 'that's troubling' a lot. In fact a friend of mine said, 'just call it a hot mess.'") and optimism, with some clear lines drawn out for her next priorities: protecting DACA and cash bail reform (which she's working on with Sen. Paul) high on the list. She also, completely unprompted, brought up how important the Census is in 2020, particularly as Trump hasn't appointed a Director and his efforts to make marginalized groups fear the government will decrease participation; and honestly, any politician who goes on an unprompted pro-Census riff gets major points in my book.
If she's running for another office, she has to learn to get better at giving more clear, punchy answers to questions from the public. She also didn't have to deal with anything remotely acrimonious—this was a hometown Berkeley crowd that loved her—, so I didn't get a chance to see how she handles more difficult situations or attacks.
There was one funny moment worth mentioning. We had a woman who stood up to ask a question, and started by explaining she owned a local retail business. Sen. Harris encouraged her to plug her business, and she did: "it's a sex shop in Oakland." Many cheers from the audience as the Senator clearly wasn't expecting that. She was jokingly fanning herself with a piece of paper and threw out a jocular "I'm sorry Reverend" to the pastor hosting us.
And, as I mentioned earlier, she said nothing about Russia. That was incredibly disappointing. She's built a national reputation for her tough questioning on the Intelligence Committee. You'd think she would want to tout that work a little bit.
posted by zachlipton at 8:43 PM on August 30, 2017 [21 favorites]
I actually think it's more likely that we all called Dubya an idiot day in and day out, and Republicans decided, "Man, fuck those guys," and elected Trump out of spite.
I don't know about you, but I just shed a goddamn tear about how elegantly presidential this looks in 2017.
posted by Behemoth at 8:51 PM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
I don't know about you, but I just shed a goddamn tear about how elegantly presidential this looks in 2017.
posted by Behemoth at 8:51 PM on August 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
@MEPFuller (Matt Fuller, HuffPost): You ever see a helicopter land at the Capitol? Police tell me they're doing training exercises.
posted by christopherious at 9:33 PM on August 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by christopherious at 9:33 PM on August 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think part of the reason we have Trump is because we had Obama and Clinton.
For eight years in the 90s, the right wing of the Republican Party internalized the misogyny of competent woman (Hillary) hatred.
And then during the Dubya years were traumatized by terror attacks to desperately crave an authoritarian daddy figure to keep them safe.
And then in 2008 were traumatized by the Great Recession to desperately crave someone with financial bona fides to tell them it was all going to be okay.
And for eight more years, steadily lost their mind because we had a black president.
And were sold, as part of the solution, an obviously illiterate, grifter moron from Alaska as the party's savior.
So when time came for them to nominate a candidate this time around, they had already radicalized and conditioned themselves so much that they had to choose a reality t.v. grifter, authoritarian billionaire who was a racist misogynist, in order to fully represent their collective boiling id.
And in the general, because they'd convinced themselves their delusion was a righteous cause, they'd rather drink poison than vote for a Democrat, even after it was obvious to everyone what a slow-motion train wreck Trump was already becoming.
So here we are with Trump: a sort of personification, or perhaps avatar, of the intense post-traumatic stress, anxiety and self-delusion experienced by a quarter of our population.
posted by darkstar at 9:37 PM on August 30, 2017 [66 favorites]
For eight years in the 90s, the right wing of the Republican Party internalized the misogyny of competent woman (Hillary) hatred.
And then during the Dubya years were traumatized by terror attacks to desperately crave an authoritarian daddy figure to keep them safe.
And then in 2008 were traumatized by the Great Recession to desperately crave someone with financial bona fides to tell them it was all going to be okay.
And for eight more years, steadily lost their mind because we had a black president.
And were sold, as part of the solution, an obviously illiterate, grifter moron from Alaska as the party's savior.
So when time came for them to nominate a candidate this time around, they had already radicalized and conditioned themselves so much that they had to choose a reality t.v. grifter, authoritarian billionaire who was a racist misogynist, in order to fully represent their collective boiling id.
And in the general, because they'd convinced themselves their delusion was a righteous cause, they'd rather drink poison than vote for a Democrat, even after it was obvious to everyone what a slow-motion train wreck Trump was already becoming.
So here we are with Trump: a sort of personification, or perhaps avatar, of the intense post-traumatic stress, anxiety and self-delusion experienced by a quarter of our population.
posted by darkstar at 9:37 PM on August 30, 2017 [66 favorites]
So here we are with Trump: a sort of personification, or perhaps avatar, of the intense post-traumatic stress, anxiety and self-delusion experienced by a quarter of our population.
As always, the Onion predicted this way back in 2012.
posted by mmoncur at 10:23 PM on August 30, 2017 [36 favorites]
As always, the Onion predicted this way back in 2012.
posted by mmoncur at 10:23 PM on August 30, 2017 [36 favorites]
That's...fantastic. Just perfect. The chyron at the end of the segment is awesome, too.
I'm beginning to think those Onion folks may be on to something.
posted by darkstar at 10:36 PM on August 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm beginning to think those Onion folks may be on to something.
posted by darkstar at 10:36 PM on August 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
fantastic. Just perfect
Yeah, I've liked that one for ages. White Hot Sphere / Horrible Lurking Fog really is spot-on for Trump / Pence.
posted by flabdablet at 11:16 PM on August 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
Yeah, I've liked that one for ages. White Hot Sphere / Horrible Lurking Fog really is spot-on for Trump / Pence.
posted by flabdablet at 11:16 PM on August 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
Metafilter: I will not sink into a pit of angst!
posted by riverlife at 11:41 PM on August 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by riverlife at 11:41 PM on August 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
Oh boy. One of the headlines on Breitbart right now:
posted by Talez at 2:14 AM on August 31, 2017 [7 favorites]
Cernovich Sources: White House ‘Coup’ Underway, Trump ‘Under House Arrest’They're really going for the throat on riling up the base. The funny thing is, nobody in the comments is buying it because of Cernovich's reputation.
posted by Talez at 2:14 AM on August 31, 2017 [7 favorites]
And what about this guy made you think he'd be "calm" (lol) and "focused" (lolol)?
Probably all the people saying that when he got into power, he would calm down and be focused? It was a thing, especially from pundits desperately trying for false equivalency between a competent if uninspiring public servant and a fuckwit.
posted by Merus at 2:22 AM on August 31, 2017 [15 favorites]
Probably all the people saying that when he got into power, he would calm down and be focused? It was a thing, especially from pundits desperately trying for false equivalency between a competent if uninspiring public servant and a fuckwit.
posted by Merus at 2:22 AM on August 31, 2017 [15 favorites]
Cernovich Sources: White House ‘Coup’ Underway, Trump ‘Under House Arrest’
I'm not going to search the story out, because I don't need to inhale deeply to know what the midden smells like - but I can quite see that 45 increasingly thinks this. He's being marginalised, people are ignoring him or openly defying him, and everything that matters to him - adulation, power, kow-towing, is being withheld. He might not be chained to a radiator in a basement, but it surely must occur to him that this is how it feels...
posted by Devonian at 3:06 AM on August 31, 2017 [19 favorites]
I'm not going to search the story out, because I don't need to inhale deeply to know what the midden smells like - but I can quite see that 45 increasingly thinks this. He's being marginalised, people are ignoring him or openly defying him, and everything that matters to him - adulation, power, kow-towing, is being withheld. He might not be chained to a radiator in a basement, but it surely must occur to him that this is how it feels...
posted by Devonian at 3:06 AM on August 31, 2017 [19 favorites]
Thought that occurred to me this morning: the President of this great land is in possession of many, many hotels. Buildings that are expressly made for temporary occupation by guests. During a national emergency when literally millions of people are homeless.
Someone please direct me to the statement from the Trump businesses about taking in refugees from Harvey in their hotels? I mean, this family is here to serve the American people, and the folks in Texas and Louisiana need all the help they can get.
posted by Sublimity at 3:59 AM on August 31, 2017 [165 favorites]
Someone please direct me to the statement from the Trump businesses about taking in refugees from Harvey in their hotels? I mean, this family is here to serve the American people, and the folks in Texas and Louisiana need all the help they can get.
posted by Sublimity at 3:59 AM on August 31, 2017 [165 favorites]
Flagged as fantastic, Sublimity.
posted by Rykey at 4:05 AM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Rykey at 4:05 AM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
In the Amazon wishlist article linked above it comes to light that Gorka is a die-hard Terry Pratchett fan. Which I really, really, really didn't expect.
posted by Harald74 at 4:24 AM on August 31, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Harald74 at 4:24 AM on August 31, 2017 [7 favorites]
In the Amazon wishlist article linked above it comes to light that Gorka is a die-hard Terry Pratchett fan. Which I really, really, really didn't expect.
Paul Ryan once said Rage Against the Machine were one of his favourite bands (he now denies this), although he probably said that to avoid the embarrassment of blurting out that it was actually Limp Bizkit.
posted by PenDevil at 4:45 AM on August 31, 2017 [13 favorites]
Paul Ryan once said Rage Against the Machine were one of his favourite bands (he now denies this), although he probably said that to avoid the embarrassment of blurting out that it was actually Limp Bizkit.
posted by PenDevil at 4:45 AM on August 31, 2017 [13 favorites]
There are conservative Pratchett fans out there, almost all of whom completely miss most of the point of everything he ever wrote about and who love him because of the wordplay and wit. It requires engaging with his text on only the most superficial of levels, which they heartily enjoy doing.
posted by mightygodking at 5:16 AM on August 31, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by mightygodking at 5:16 AM on August 31, 2017 [24 favorites]
Apologies if it has been posted already, but this Bloomberg article about the state of the Kushner’s finances is interesting. TL;DR is that they bought a slightly second-rate skyscraper at the height of the bubble, borrowed a lot of money to do it, and are in a rather precarious position.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 5:22 AM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 5:22 AM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
(I mean obviously, any 5th Avenue skyscraper is a hell of a thing to own, but apparently this isn’t the one you’d pick if you had a free choice)
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 5:24 AM on August 31, 2017
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 5:24 AM on August 31, 2017
Are -
are you fucking me:
"It was 2006—the height of the real-estate market boom—when Kushner Cos. agreed to buy 666 Fifth Avenue for $1.8 billion"
All the signs were right there America!
posted by Tevin at 5:28 AM on August 31, 2017 [17 favorites]
are you fucking me:
"It was 2006—the height of the real-estate market boom—when Kushner Cos. agreed to buy 666 Fifth Avenue for $1.8 billion"
All the signs were right there America!
posted by Tevin at 5:28 AM on August 31, 2017 [17 favorites]
I am honestly really not kidding about being worried that the Antichrist is nigh.
I'm really, really not. Never have been.
Of course, I'm no theologian so one will probably be along any minute to set me straight that the Apocalypse has either already happened or is a metaphor.
That'll be very comforting when I'm sitting here slapping calamine on my plague of boils.
posted by tel3path at 5:35 AM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm really, really not. Never have been.
Of course, I'm no theologian so one will probably be along any minute to set me straight that the Apocalypse has either already happened or is a metaphor.
That'll be very comforting when I'm sitting here slapping calamine on my plague of boils.
posted by tel3path at 5:35 AM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
Antichrists come along fairly often. It's only when they follow their declaration with "I am an anarchist" that they bear watching.
Or when they wrestle.
posted by delfin at 5:57 AM on August 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
Or when they wrestle.
posted by delfin at 5:57 AM on August 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
To steal a line from John Fugelsang, Trump is not the anti-Christ but Jesus is definitely the anti-Trump. Though Trump is probably the closest thing we've seen to the stereotypical view of the anti-Christ, which makes it all the more interesting/damning how fast and completely evangelicals bent the knee.
posted by chris24 at 6:10 AM on August 31, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 6:10 AM on August 31, 2017 [25 favorites]
Of course, I'm no theologian so one will probably be along any minute to set me straight that the Apocalypse has either already happened or is a metaphor.
I'm not a theologian, but I know enough about Revelation that one of the first signs of the apocalypse is the rebuilding of Solomon's Temple on the original site, which is currently occupied by the Dome of the Rock. If all of Islam is suddenly cool with tearing down one of their sacred sites to rebuild a sacred Jewish site, then start worrying. Until then...
posted by Autumnheart at 6:14 AM on August 31, 2017 [8 favorites]
I'm not a theologian, but I know enough about Revelation that one of the first signs of the apocalypse is the rebuilding of Solomon's Temple on the original site, which is currently occupied by the Dome of the Rock. If all of Islam is suddenly cool with tearing down one of their sacred sites to rebuild a sacred Jewish site, then start worrying. Until then...
posted by Autumnheart at 6:14 AM on August 31, 2017 [8 favorites]
I'm never buying into George Bush hagiography. George Bush was a monster and war criminal who lied America into an unprovoked war that killed 12000 Americans and a million Iraqis, on top of also doing all the normal shitty Repulican cronyism things Trump is doing as the baseline level of background evil, political stacking of the Justice Department, racial discrimination, carte blanche for business without oversight, trying to end the social safety net. Bush did all that too, don't forget. Oh, and his economic policies allowed the biggest housing bubble in history to crash almost killing the world economy for the next decade. Trump is not nearly as bad as Bush, yet. He's well on his way, and personally he's committed different crimes that may damage the office of president more, but he's still got a long, long way to go to catch up to Bush's level of total evilness.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:14 AM on August 31, 2017 [58 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:14 AM on August 31, 2017 [58 favorites]
666 Fifth Avenue for $1.8 billion
Several decades back, a number of religious folks were really worried about a president whose three names had 6 letters each, whose associate survived a terrible head wound in an assassination attempt (see Revelation 13), whose wife was into astrology, and who even moved to 666 St. Cloud Road after leaving office. True, Reagan didn't require a mark on the forehead in order to buy or sell, but it was close enough for concern in some quarters.
That they're now universally silent (except for t3lepath) about a so, so, so much much more antichristy president is testament to the absolute cynicism and moral bankruptcy of the religious right in america. The modern institution of fundamentalist christianity is in fact a tribal socio-political movement concerned primarily with the oppression of minorities, the enforcement of class hierarchy, and the joy of dominating its enemies. Which makes its overlap with the GOP close to 100%. The only difference being that the religious right has a lightbulb-headed judge on a throne in the clouds as its leader as opposed to the official Republican party leader: a tattered and stained piece of scrap paper scrawled with more tax cuts for the rich please thanks.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:36 AM on August 31, 2017 [22 favorites]
Several decades back, a number of religious folks were really worried about a president whose three names had 6 letters each, whose associate survived a terrible head wound in an assassination attempt (see Revelation 13), whose wife was into astrology, and who even moved to 666 St. Cloud Road after leaving office. True, Reagan didn't require a mark on the forehead in order to buy or sell, but it was close enough for concern in some quarters.
That they're now universally silent (except for t3lepath) about a so, so, so much much more antichristy president is testament to the absolute cynicism and moral bankruptcy of the religious right in america. The modern institution of fundamentalist christianity is in fact a tribal socio-political movement concerned primarily with the oppression of minorities, the enforcement of class hierarchy, and the joy of dominating its enemies. Which makes its overlap with the GOP close to 100%. The only difference being that the religious right has a lightbulb-headed judge on a throne in the clouds as its leader as opposed to the official Republican party leader: a tattered and stained piece of scrap paper scrawled with more tax cuts for the rich please thanks.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:36 AM on August 31, 2017 [22 favorites]
I always thought the Antichrist was supposed to be, like, not an orange buffoon
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:40 AM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:40 AM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
I always thought the Antichrist was supposed to be, like, not an orange buffoon
See, that's how he gits ya.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:40 AM on August 31, 2017 [28 favorites]
See, that's how he gits ya.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:40 AM on August 31, 2017 [28 favorites]
I've just had a thought. Do y'all think the reason we have Trump is because of Dubya? He was president for eight years, and we all called him an idiot day in and day out. So maybe Republicans decided "well, if that idiot can be president, I guess it's not that hard."
....
I think it's more likely that we all called Dubya an idiot day in and day out, and Republicans decided, "Man, fuck those guys," and elected Trump out of spite.
This has nothing to do with what the Democratic Party has done.
It is more likely that no principled intelligent person is willing to cater to the full insanity of the modern republican platform. You have to be anti-science, racist, anti-civilization and society, anti-expertise, pro-confederacy, anti-globalist but pro-capitalist, free market but pro-monopoly and so on.
The only kind of person who can have all those positions is someone unconcerned about even the smallest amount integrity or internal consistency.
So you get morons.
posted by srboisvert at 6:40 AM on August 31, 2017 [27 favorites]
....
I think it's more likely that we all called Dubya an idiot day in and day out, and Republicans decided, "Man, fuck those guys," and elected Trump out of spite.
This has nothing to do with what the Democratic Party has done.
It is more likely that no principled intelligent person is willing to cater to the full insanity of the modern republican platform. You have to be anti-science, racist, anti-civilization and society, anti-expertise, pro-confederacy, anti-globalist but pro-capitalist, free market but pro-monopoly and so on.
The only kind of person who can have all those positions is someone unconcerned about even the smallest amount integrity or internal consistency.
So you get morons.
posted by srboisvert at 6:40 AM on August 31, 2017 [27 favorites]
I don't know about you, but I just shed a goddamn tear about how elegantly presidential this looks in 2017.
Yeah, there is no way Trump is that agile. He'd definitely take it in the face.
posted by zakur at 6:41 AM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yeah, there is no way Trump is that agile. He'd definitely take it in the face.
posted by zakur at 6:41 AM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
I have mentioned this before, but my mother (who I love) said during the primaries that she believed Donald Trump was the actual Antichrist but would still vote for him over Hillary Clinton because "she's a liar and you can never believe anything she says."
The power of Fox News I guess.
posted by Tevin at 6:43 AM on August 31, 2017 [58 favorites]
The power of Fox News I guess.
posted by Tevin at 6:43 AM on August 31, 2017 [58 favorites]
The power of Fox News I guess.
Fox News: Fair and Balanced. Also We'll Convince You To Vote For The Literal Actual Fucking Devil
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:45 AM on August 31, 2017 [32 favorites]
Fox News: Fair and Balanced. Also We'll Convince You To Vote For The Literal Actual Fucking Devil
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:45 AM on August 31, 2017 [32 favorites]
Paul Ryan once said Rage Against the Machine were one of his favourite bands (he now denies this), although he probably said that to avoid the embarrassment of blurting out that it was actually Limp Bizkit.
And let us not forget die-hard Wu Tang fan Marco Rubio.
posted by zakur at 6:47 AM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
And let us not forget die-hard Wu Tang fan Marco Rubio.
posted by zakur at 6:47 AM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
MetaFilter: It requires engaging with text on only the most superficial of levels
posted by kirkaracha at 6:47 AM on August 31, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 6:47 AM on August 31, 2017 [11 favorites]
In an effort to reassure people and turn back the tangent:
The stuff about the Rapture is actually not based on anything in Scripture, like, at all. A friend at a Jesuit university was taking a theology class and had to do a paper on some topic, but he had to base his research entirely on "what the Bible says about this" - he initially picked "The Rapture", but then had to abandon it when he discovered that there was absolutely NO Biblical basis for the whole "rapture/end of the world" stuff that was traditionally invoked. So....all that "left behind" stuff is basically, like, Bible fanfic.
As for what IS in Revelations....there is a school of thought that argues that it was a poetic perspective on the Roman oppression of early Christians, and a reassurance of hope that it would end someday. And that whole thing about "six-six-six" was a coded reference to Emperor Nero. Which means that the end-times they talked about in Revelations already happened over a thousand years ago.
I mean, not that it doesn't lead the mind down interesting paths to contemplate how easily the far-right evangelicals seem to have fallen so quickly for someone that matches the anti-Christ forewarned of in Revelation. But I'd say that that's more an example of how self-centered some of their number are, and how easily they turn a blind eye to anything that isn't what they want to hear; I wouldn't take it as proof that we'll be getting the Lamb With Nine Heads* descending onto the White House or anything.
* I think there's reference to something like that in Revelations. I read it at age seven in the Gideon Bible wihle we were on a family vacation and lemme tell ya, some of that shit is better than acid.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:50 AM on August 31, 2017 [23 favorites]
The stuff about the Rapture is actually not based on anything in Scripture, like, at all. A friend at a Jesuit university was taking a theology class and had to do a paper on some topic, but he had to base his research entirely on "what the Bible says about this" - he initially picked "The Rapture", but then had to abandon it when he discovered that there was absolutely NO Biblical basis for the whole "rapture/end of the world" stuff that was traditionally invoked. So....all that "left behind" stuff is basically, like, Bible fanfic.
As for what IS in Revelations....there is a school of thought that argues that it was a poetic perspective on the Roman oppression of early Christians, and a reassurance of hope that it would end someday. And that whole thing about "six-six-six" was a coded reference to Emperor Nero. Which means that the end-times they talked about in Revelations already happened over a thousand years ago.
I mean, not that it doesn't lead the mind down interesting paths to contemplate how easily the far-right evangelicals seem to have fallen so quickly for someone that matches the anti-Christ forewarned of in Revelation. But I'd say that that's more an example of how self-centered some of their number are, and how easily they turn a blind eye to anything that isn't what they want to hear; I wouldn't take it as proof that we'll be getting the Lamb With Nine Heads* descending onto the White House or anything.
* I think there's reference to something like that in Revelations. I read it at age seven in the Gideon Bible wihle we were on a family vacation and lemme tell ya, some of that shit is better than acid.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:50 AM on August 31, 2017 [23 favorites]
This is probably a derail and/or noise but ...
... in the eschatology I was raised to believe, the The Anti-Christ would be someone who would deceive the entire world while his real goal was to prepare the un-saved goats for eternal damnation while the saved sheep got to escape to heaven in the Rapture.
I think it's really interesting that my mom (as far as I know) who believes this interpretation imagines President Trump as this figure since he has not deceived the world, but those who are most likely to believe the version of end-world events I described above. Though, in her bubble, it probably does appear like everyone she knows is in love with him.
Anyway. That's enough Anti Christ talk for one day for me.
posted by Tevin at 6:54 AM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
... in the eschatology I was raised to believe, the The Anti-Christ would be someone who would deceive the entire world while his real goal was to prepare the un-saved goats for eternal damnation while the saved sheep got to escape to heaven in the Rapture.
I think it's really interesting that my mom (as far as I know) who believes this interpretation imagines President Trump as this figure since he has not deceived the world, but those who are most likely to believe the version of end-world events I described above. Though, in her bubble, it probably does appear like everyone she knows is in love with him.
Anyway. That's enough Anti Christ talk for one day for me.
posted by Tevin at 6:54 AM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
(Ooh, let me, don't think I've ever done one of these.)
Metafilter: That's enough Anti Christ talk for one day for me.
posted by NorthernLite at 6:58 AM on August 31, 2017 [42 favorites]
Metafilter: That's enough Anti Christ talk for one day for me.
posted by NorthernLite at 6:58 AM on August 31, 2017 [42 favorites]
their response will be "why are you calling me a fascist I'm not a fascist you're the fascist".
Jonah Goldberg was candid that that was pretty much the reason he wrote his silly book trying to claim liberals were the real fascists.
posted by Gelatin at 6:59 AM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
Jonah Goldberg was candid that that was pretty much the reason he wrote his silly book trying to claim liberals were the real fascists.
posted by Gelatin at 6:59 AM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
And let us not forget die-hard Wu Tang fan Marco Rubio.
From that article:
posted by jaduncan at 6:59 AM on August 31, 2017 [9 favorites]
From that article:
"Marco Rubio publicly loves Pitbull but is too scared to admit a favorite member of the Wu-Tang Clan. Absolutely unfit for office."I can't disagree.
posted by jaduncan at 6:59 AM on August 31, 2017 [9 favorites]
The baptist church I was raised in, which in many ways was very stereotypical -- for example after I was baptised I had to take part in the feet washing -- regarded the whole rapture/left behind/anti-christ stuff as being suspicious bullshit peddled by cons and hucksters
I had to touch a lot of old people feet
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:02 AM on August 31, 2017 [9 favorites]
I had to touch a lot of old people feet
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:02 AM on August 31, 2017 [9 favorites]
Interesting read: Meliana Trump and the Chilling Artifice of Fashion:
When you see Melania headed to Marine One, or dining with world leaders, or standing on a White House balcony, the entire scene looks like a magazine spread in which “real” people, equipment, and buildings are being used merely as dramatic backdrops for a fashion layout. On Tuesday, this meant that instead of being a supporting presence in the president’s trip to survey flood damage, Melania became the star and the trip morphed into a simulacrum, a kind of Vogue shoot “simulating” a president’s trip. In other words, the realness of everyone and everything else (including hurricane victims) faded and the evacuated blankness of the commercial overtook the scene.
And this is how something as apparently trivial as women’s style reveals a profound truth at the heart of this administration and its relationship to America’s citizens: It is as dissociative as a fashion advertisement, brought to power by manipulating and rechanneling the electorate’s desires for wealth and possessions. This truth seeps out of every photographed occasion, including and especially those featuring the Trump women.
posted by TwoStride at 7:07 AM on August 31, 2017 [25 favorites]
When you see Melania headed to Marine One, or dining with world leaders, or standing on a White House balcony, the entire scene looks like a magazine spread in which “real” people, equipment, and buildings are being used merely as dramatic backdrops for a fashion layout. On Tuesday, this meant that instead of being a supporting presence in the president’s trip to survey flood damage, Melania became the star and the trip morphed into a simulacrum, a kind of Vogue shoot “simulating” a president’s trip. In other words, the realness of everyone and everything else (including hurricane victims) faded and the evacuated blankness of the commercial overtook the scene.
And this is how something as apparently trivial as women’s style reveals a profound truth at the heart of this administration and its relationship to America’s citizens: It is as dissociative as a fashion advertisement, brought to power by manipulating and rechanneling the electorate’s desires for wealth and possessions. This truth seeps out of every photographed occasion, including and especially those featuring the Trump women.
posted by TwoStride at 7:07 AM on August 31, 2017 [25 favorites]
zachlipton: “You’re not going to bully United States senators, this isn’t the Apprentice,” said Rep. Tom Cole, R-Okla., referring to Trump’s star turn on the reality television show. “You can’t look at them and say you’re fired, you’re going to need their vote and you oughtta remember that they’re going to be at the table in every major deal you need for the next three years. So I just don’t think that’s a productive way to proceed.”
Hey, Tom - if you think Trump is not offering "a productive way to proceed," I hear that some Democratic colleagues of yours have a bold idea for how to deal with him. Hint: it starts with "im" and ends with "peach."
It's only another three years if you want it to be, which apparently you do, given your voting record (97.4% voted with Trump, at the time of this post).
posted by filthy light thief at 7:07 AM on August 31, 2017 [22 favorites]
Hey, Tom - if you think Trump is not offering "a productive way to proceed," I hear that some Democratic colleagues of yours have a bold idea for how to deal with him. Hint: it starts with "im" and ends with "peach."
It's only another three years if you want it to be, which apparently you do, given your voting record (97.4% voted with Trump, at the time of this post).
posted by filthy light thief at 7:07 AM on August 31, 2017 [22 favorites]
NPR, providing your response (should you need one) to anyone who says "Trump is just hitting the same first-year president growing pains in his foreign policy efforts"
tl;dr: Trump's administration is worse than any of the recent administrations, and some of the obstacles to success (or at least improved operations) are self-inflicted.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:25 AM on August 31, 2017 [40 favorites]
University of Virginia historian Melvyn Leffler says the research shows some common mistakes, from a failure to appoint key advisors who work well together to a lack of clear foreign policy priorities.Emphasis mine.
"What we have seen is that the Trump administration has repeated many of these errors," Leffler tells NPR — "in fact, I would say, magnified them in significant ways so that the country is in a perilous state."
...
In the Bush administration's case, Congress was mostly to blame for a slow confirmation process for many national security positions. That is part of the problem today. But "an even more significant part is the failure of the administration to make appointments," Leffler says, "and this is particularly true in the Department of State."
...
University of Virginia historian William Hitchcock says he is "puzzled" by those who believe that private sector experience is an "adequate preparation" for government. He's also alarmed that President Trump and some of his advisors don't seem to trust career State Department employees.
"The last time we had this degree of hatred, outright hatred toward professional diplomats who were worldly cosmopolitan, knowledgeable about other places, who traveled, who knew foreign languages ... was in the [Joseph] McCarthy period" in the 1950s, Hitchcock says.
...
The problem is many of the challenges facing the U.S. — from Afghanistan to Iran, North Korea to Russia — require a political strategy, says Philip Zelikow, who was a top State Department official in the George W. Bush administration.
"If we can't tell what our political strategy is on all these different subjects, I can't give the secretary of state a good grade," he says.
...
He says he is not surprised that Tillerson is trying to distance himself from the president's words about Charlottesville.
"I think most of the challenge for the government now is how to try to make the government work despite and around the president," Zelikow says.
The question he has: Will the government be prepared to handle a first-year international crisis, like the one brewing with North Korea? President Trump doesn't seem interested in diplomacy there. On Wednesday, he tweeted: "Talking is not the answer!"
tl;dr: Trump's administration is worse than any of the recent administrations, and some of the obstacles to success (or at least improved operations) are self-inflicted.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:25 AM on August 31, 2017 [40 favorites]
Of 591 key positions requiring Senate confirmation...
No nominee: 366
Awaiting nomination: 2
Formally nominated: 106
Confirmed: 117
posted by kirkaracha at 7:34 AM on August 31, 2017 [23 favorites]
No nominee: 366
Awaiting nomination: 2
Formally nominated: 106
Confirmed: 117
posted by kirkaracha at 7:34 AM on August 31, 2017 [23 favorites]
Kelly Anne Conway says Trump's most notable characteristic is humility, and it's shameful the media don't recognize that.
OMG she's the worst. Granted, this was in an interview on The 700 Club, but ... COME ON!
posted by zakur at 7:39 AM on August 31, 2017 [26 favorites]
OMG she's the worst. Granted, this was in an interview on The 700 Club, but ... COME ON!
posted by zakur at 7:39 AM on August 31, 2017 [26 favorites]
He's created an odd fusion of a 'global village' and 'Potemkin village'.
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:50 AM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:50 AM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
For the mixture of supporters and onlookers, however, they could only see Trump, standing in front of a firetruck, waving a Texas flag.
And in the land of soundbite politics, that is absolutely all he needs to do to get an A+ rating from that audience.
posted by Rykey at 7:54 AM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
And in the land of soundbite politics, that is absolutely all he needs to do to get an A+ rating from that audience.
posted by Rykey at 7:54 AM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
The Bezosington Post, which has generally avoided sinking to NYT levels of both-sides-do-it-ism, decided to give some op-ed space to Bush 43 speechwriter and torture apologist Marc Thiesen. It's... about as awful as you would expect.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:55 AM on August 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 7:55 AM on August 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
"This is a joke, right?" tweeted Connecticut Sen. Chris Murphy. "Basically akin to nominating influenza to be the Surgeon General."
Christ, don't give him any ideas.
Christ, don't give him any ideas.
@realDonaldTrump proud to nom arterial plaque to Presidential council On Heart disease. recog for Tremendous work!posted by uncleozzy at 8:03 AM on August 31, 2017 [6 favorites]
Trump picks ‘Jew counter’ at center of Nixon-era anti-Semitic campaign to lead powerful think tank:
As The Atlantic has detailed, Nixon had come to believe that Democratic Jews in the BLS were conspiring against him after the bureau released a report playing down a drop in the unemployment rate, and ordered Malek to work on purging them from leadership positions.The Atlantic article reveals he also skinned and barbecued a dog in a public park, in case you weren't sure just what flavor of insane monster he was.posted by corb at 8:05 AM on August 31, 2017 [30 favorites]
cjelli: A few minutes later, Trump was back in his van and with a wave of his hand, and as quickly as he had appeared, he was gone.
That's a magical phrase, which I hope is true for the entire country in the near future.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:16 AM on August 31, 2017 [20 favorites]
That's a magical phrase, which I hope is true for the entire country in the near future.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:16 AM on August 31, 2017 [20 favorites]
In other news, the FCC website makes it fairly easily for anyone to upload anything, without moderation (Sean Gallagher, Ars Technica, Aug. 31, 2017)
posted by filthy light thief at 8:24 AM on August 31, 2017 [34 favorites]
But as a security researcher has found, the API could be used to push just about any document to the FCC's website, where it would be instantly published without screening. That was demonstrated by a PDF published with Microsoft Word that was uploaded to the site, now publicly accessible.The content of that PDF:
...
Since the API apparently accepts any file type, it could theoretically be used to host malicious documents and executable files on the FCC's Web server.
"I used a fake name and sent it to a gmail account and it sent me an API key right away," reported one researcher via Twitter under the account @hacktifish.
To: The American PeopleSo, there's that.
From: The Federal Communications Commission
1-888-225-5322
445 12th Street SW, Washington, DC 20554
Dear American citizenry,
We’re sorry Ajit Pai is such a filthy spineless cuck.
Sincerely,
The FCC
posted by filthy light thief at 8:24 AM on August 31, 2017 [34 favorites]
On Tuesday, this meant that instead of being a supporting presence in the president’s trip to survey flood damage, Melania became the star and the trip morphed into a simulacrum, a kind of Vogue shoot “simulating” a president’s trip.
This encapsulates so well my feelings about the whole "Melania and her shoes" situation in contrast to the usual "talk about their clothes instead of their positions" derail when discussing women in prominent professional roles (using "professional" to include both politics and industry). Turning a real-life crisis into "reality TV" by virtue of making it about the appearance of being presidential, as opposed to actually being presidential.
posted by Autumnheart at 8:25 AM on August 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
This encapsulates so well my feelings about the whole "Melania and her shoes" situation in contrast to the usual "talk about their clothes instead of their positions" derail when discussing women in prominent professional roles (using "professional" to include both politics and industry). Turning a real-life crisis into "reality TV" by virtue of making it about the appearance of being presidential, as opposed to actually being presidential.
posted by Autumnheart at 8:25 AM on August 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
I know it was a little ways upthread, but I seriously believe the Wu-Tang Clan thing shows that Rubio is unfit for office. If you're going to do interviews, you need to be able to think on your feet. And if you mention the Wu-Tang Clan to a reporter, common sense suggests they might ask you your favorite member. And if you're a politician with aspirations toward national office, 'favorite Wu-Tang Clan member' is an easy question.
You can't pick Cappadonna, U-God, or Inspectah Deck--you're not that big of a fan. It would be like Obama saying his favorite character on 'The Wire' is that one-term mayor that Carcetti has lunch with.
You can't pick Masta Killa or Ghostface Killah, because of their names. Shame about GFK--he's one of the best rappers in the group, but you don't want to read that chyron.
ODB picked up a welfare check in a limousine on national television. Method Man named himself after marijuana, so... are you Gary Johnson? I didn't think so.
That leaves Raekwon, RZA, and GZA. Don't pick Raekwon. Blaow!
posted by box at 8:28 AM on August 31, 2017 [50 favorites]
You can't pick Cappadonna, U-God, or Inspectah Deck--you're not that big of a fan. It would be like Obama saying his favorite character on 'The Wire' is that one-term mayor that Carcetti has lunch with.
You can't pick Masta Killa or Ghostface Killah, because of their names. Shame about GFK--he's one of the best rappers in the group, but you don't want to read that chyron.
ODB picked up a welfare check in a limousine on national television. Method Man named himself after marijuana, so... are you Gary Johnson? I didn't think so.
That leaves Raekwon, RZA, and GZA. Don't pick Raekwon. Blaow!
posted by box at 8:28 AM on August 31, 2017 [50 favorites]
Let us dispel once and for all with this fiction that the Wu-Tang Clan is somethin' ta fuck wit.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:31 AM on August 31, 2017 [43 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 8:31 AM on August 31, 2017 [43 favorites]
I've been biting my tongue about this, because 'paranoid Jew thinks everyone is anti-Semitic', but this "Jew counter" thing is the last straw. Michael Cohen, Felix Sater and potentially Jared Kushner, the current high profile Jews in this administration are almost definitely going to be taking a fall for this administration. Sater wrote to Trump Organization Executive Vice President Michael Cohen, his childhood friend, 'something to the effect of, "Can you believe two guys from Brooklyn are going to elect a president?" Cohen, who turned over his documents this week is looking like an almost certain fall guy and Sater, what with the whole stabbing in the face with a margarita glass stem and the father, Mikhail Sheferovsky being an underboss for Russian Mafia "boss of bosses" Semion Mogilevich, I think the Trump organization sees them as easy and disposable. Also, Jews.
I am having bad, bad feelings about the future of anti-Semitism in this country.
posted by Sophie1 at 8:31 AM on August 31, 2017 [34 favorites]
I am having bad, bad feelings about the future of anti-Semitism in this country.
posted by Sophie1 at 8:31 AM on August 31, 2017 [34 favorites]
this Bloomberg article about the state of the Kushner’s finances is interesting.
agreed... one of the best aspects is that no one wanted a piece of this deal until the Trump campaign took off. That opened a lot of doors... but still the investors wanted no part of it, once they got a look at the books.
posted by martin q blank at 8:34 AM on August 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
agreed... one of the best aspects is that no one wanted a piece of this deal until the Trump campaign took off. That opened a lot of doors... but still the investors wanted no part of it, once they got a look at the books.
posted by martin q blank at 8:34 AM on August 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
The baptist church I was raised in, which in many ways was very stereotypical -- for example after I was baptised I had to take part in the feet washing -- regarded the whole rapture/left behind/anti-christ stuff as being suspicious bullshit peddled by cons and hucksters
I think it was more or less invented from whole cloth, by some 19th century tent revival preachers. I'm sure believers have twisted up some kind of Biblical support, but it does indeed sound like, uh, fake theology.
posted by thelonius at 8:36 AM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
I think it was more or less invented from whole cloth, by some 19th century tent revival preachers. I'm sure believers have twisted up some kind of Biblical support, but it does indeed sound like, uh, fake theology.
posted by thelonius at 8:36 AM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
That leaves Raekwon, RZA, and GZA. Don't pick Raekwon. Blaow!
posted by box at 11:28 AM on August 31 [+] [!]
ODB specialized in children's outreach though.
posted by Cookiebastard at 8:36 AM on August 31, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by box at 11:28 AM on August 31 [+] [!]
ODB specialized in children's outreach though.
posted by Cookiebastard at 8:36 AM on August 31, 2017 [12 favorites]
Autumnheart: Turning a real-life crisis into "reality TV" by virtue of making it about the appearance of being presidential, as opposed to actually being presidential.
I understand and agree with you with the vast majority of political coverage of women in politics, but the Trumps are not political, in that they have nothing of substance to say regarding politics. It's all fluff and show, and reducing the president's hurricane tourism to a photo op is exactly what he did, and I don't think his wife has been even less politically involved than Laura Bush (biography.com post, putting her in the most positive of possible lights, while noting that Laura "planned on keeping a low profile").
I mean, you don't have to say or do anything as the partner to the President, but when you don't say anything, your appearance speaks for you, for good or for ill.
That said, the increased coverage of personality traits and minimization of women in politics to being represented by their appearance above their policies is a serious issue with media coverage.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:37 AM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
I understand and agree with you with the vast majority of political coverage of women in politics, but the Trumps are not political, in that they have nothing of substance to say regarding politics. It's all fluff and show, and reducing the president's hurricane tourism to a photo op is exactly what he did, and I don't think his wife has been even less politically involved than Laura Bush (biography.com post, putting her in the most positive of possible lights, while noting that Laura "planned on keeping a low profile").
I mean, you don't have to say or do anything as the partner to the President, but when you don't say anything, your appearance speaks for you, for good or for ill.
That said, the increased coverage of personality traits and minimization of women in politics to being represented by their appearance above their policies is a serious issue with media coverage.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:37 AM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
> What the fuck are you talking about?
The Atlantic Article, linked from corb's link.
The Atlantic Article, linked from corb's link.
Every year or so, poor old Fred Malek, the GOP fundraiser, has to suffer through a callback to his youthful indiscretions, like that one crazy time in his twenties that he and his friends were caught drunkenly barbecuing a dog on a spit, or the wacky moment in his thirties when he counted the Jews in the Bureau of Labor Statistics so President Nixon could demote them, or the hilarious time in his sixties when the Securities and Exchange Commissioned ordered him to personally pay a $100,000 fine for allegedly using taxpayer funds to reward a political supporter. *(Youth!)posted by tonycpsu at 8:37 AM on August 31, 2017 [31 favorites]
Turning a real-life crisis into 'reality TV' by virtue of making it about the appearance of being presidential, as opposed to actually being presidential.From the article:
Well, sometimes pretense is everything. It’s the reason for the first lady to go to Texas at all: to symbolize care and concern and camaraderie. To remind people that the government isn’t merely doing its job, that the government is engaged with each and every individual. Washington hears its citizens. That’s what the optics are all about.posted by kirkaracha at 8:39 AM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
...
And for her trip to Texas, the first lady offered up a fashion moment instead of an expression of empathy.
Interesting read: Meliana Trump and the Chilling Artifice of Fashion:
I liked this but the opening sentence also had me thinking:
posted by Room 641-A at 8:41 AM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
I liked this but the opening sentence also had me thinking:
Yesterday, heated debate over Melania Trump’s travel attire nearly overshadowed the very purpose of her trip: to bear witness to the devastation of the Houston hurricane.This would be a totally unremarkable sentence in any other timelie. In this one, however, we now realize that the purpose of the trip was really just to stage another ego-stroking photo-op to placate the Loser In Chief. I believe those heels -- and, more importantly, the decision to wear them -- deserved criticism if the purpose of the trip was to bear witness to Harvey's destruction. Now I realize Melania knew this was all about Trump, in which case the shoes are just fine.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:41 AM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
Professor Anthea Butler as an Op-Ed Contributor in the New York Times tears into the 'Prosperity Gospel' heresy/charlatanism so prevalent in the Republican and reactionary mainstreams: The Cheap Prosperity Gospel of Trump and Osteen
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:43 AM on August 31, 2017 [66 favorites]
Natural disasters like Hurricane Harvey are the worst kind of crises for people like Mr. Trump and Mr. Osteen, who purvey their own versions of the prosperity gospel. This is a belief that says if you think positively and make affirmations, God will reward you with financial success and good health. If you don’t, you may face unemployment, poverty or sickness. (Mr. Trump in particular always speaks in laudatory terms about himself and his companies.)In another New York Times piece, Charles M. Blow--linking the reaction to Harvey, the pardon of Arpaio, and the defense of hateful white nationalists--examines how and why Trump Raises an Army.
But the problem is that it’s hard to promote “Your Best Life Now” or “The Art of the Deal” to people whose houses have flooded or been blown away, or to evacuees who have only the clothes on their backs.
Mr. Trump’s and Mr. Osteen’s brands are rooted in success, not Scripture. Believers in prosperity like winners. Hurricanes and catastrophic floods do not provide the winning narratives crucial to keep adherents chained to prosperity gospel thinking. That is why it is easy for both men to issue platitudes devoid of empathy during natural disasters. They lack compassion for people who are not prosperous, because those people simply did not follow the rules. [...]
So while the storm churns through Texas and Louisiana, causing floods, death and misery, it is time to consider the damage the prosperity gospel has done to America. Mr. Trump and Mr. Osteen unwittingly revealed its ugly underbelly: the smugness, the self-aggrandizing posturing. It has co-opted many in the Republican Party, readily visible in their relentless desire to strip Americans of health care, disaster relief and infrastructure funding.
Consider what this man is saying: He used the horror and anxious anticipation of a monster storm menacing millions of Americans — particularly in Houston whose population is 44 percent Hispanic — in a political calculation to get more ratings and more eyeballs on the fact that he was using the power of the presidency to forgive, and thereby condone, Arpaio’s racism. [...]The moral bankruptcy of T and each person who supports him is astounding but not too surprising given the hate machine of reactionary talk radio, Fox News, and scheming pastoral demons encouraging their flocks to embrace their anger and hate. They get to fuck up everything, blame everyone else for their own destruction, and proclaim their own righteousness. Trump and the so-called Evangelical Christian movement are tailor-made for each other: a petty, spiteful, furious, onanistic grifter inciting a bunch of violent suckers to indulge their worst impulses. Great.
And why raise this army? Again, I have a theory.
Should something emerge from the Robert Mueller investigation — an investigation that is continuing unabated even as Harvey rages — that should implicate Trump and pose a threat to the continuation of his tenure, Trump wants to position any attempt to remove him as a political coup. His efforts to delegitimize the press are all part of this because one day the press may have to deliver ruinous news.
In that scenario, Trump knows that the oligarchs and establishment Republicans would be quick to abandon him. Their support isn’t intrinsic; it’s transactional. But the base — the market — the ones with guns as well as those who are simply excited, the die-hards, the ones he keeps appealing to and applauding, will not forsake him. They see attacks on Trump as attacks on themselves.
Trump is playing an endgame. In the best-case scenario, these die-hards are future customers; in the worst, they are future confederates.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:43 AM on August 31, 2017 [66 favorites]
I think it was more or less invented from whole cloth, by some 19th century tent revival preachers. I'm sure believers have twisted up some kind of Biblical support, but it does indeed sound like, uh, fake theology.
You've pretty much summed up all of contemporary American evangelicalism right there.
posted by Rykey at 8:45 AM on August 31, 2017 [7 favorites]
You've pretty much summed up all of contemporary American evangelicalism right there.
posted by Rykey at 8:45 AM on August 31, 2017 [7 favorites]
ODB specialized in children's outreach though.
Yeah, but you don't want to have to explain that. First rule of political messaging: If you're explaining, you're losing. RZA is a gifted producer, and arguably the head of the Clan, and he's branched out into enough mainstream non-hip-hop stuff that somebody as profoundly mundane as Rubio could believably have seen his work and enjoyed it. "RZA is my favorite" is the boring answer, but it's boring because it's the most likely to be true.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:45 AM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yeah, but you don't want to have to explain that. First rule of political messaging: If you're explaining, you're losing. RZA is a gifted producer, and arguably the head of the Clan, and he's branched out into enough mainstream non-hip-hop stuff that somebody as profoundly mundane as Rubio could believably have seen his work and enjoyed it. "RZA is my favorite" is the boring answer, but it's boring because it's the most likely to be true.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:45 AM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm too lazy to get up and grab a bible ( or google it) but in Revelations there is a reference to the rapture. Jesus will appear in the sky and 144,000 true believers will rise up into the clouds to meet him. They will then be taken to heaven. Note the number. There is a fixed limit on how many will be saved. There is a famous Rapture postcard featuring crashing planes, cars, etc with angel dressed people rising up to meet Jesus in the sky. I have been told that the city featured in the picture looks a lot like Houston.
posted by njohnson23 at 8:46 AM on August 31, 2017
posted by njohnson23 at 8:46 AM on August 31, 2017
corb: Apologies but you could have been a lot clearer.
How? He said that the article stated a thing. The article did state the thing. That's pretty clear.
posted by greermahoney at 8:46 AM on August 31, 2017 [34 favorites]
How? He said that the article stated a thing. The article did state the thing. That's pretty clear.
posted by greermahoney at 8:46 AM on August 31, 2017 [34 favorites]
What is is with dudes surnamed Spencer? This one is a state rep in GA, a Republican, threatening a lawyer, a black woman who is anti-Confederate statue, and was once a Democratic rep from Atlanta in the GA legislature.
Between him and the Cobb County, GA cop who told a white woman at a traffic stop to calm down because, "We only shoot black people (!!!!!!!!!)"... Nice that they're getting their military toys back, eh?
This is what Trump has wrought, and what he wanted to have happen. This is why so many white "Christian" people voted for him. How is there any doubt? The world may go to hell in a handbasket, but if we're all going down, they want to be the ones standing on other people's heads in their stilettos so that they go down last, is that it? What the hell are we supposed to do about this? How is marching and calling Congress supposed to be enough when people like those men are the warp and weft of the country?
posted by droplet at 8:49 AM on August 31, 2017 [10 favorites]
Between him and the Cobb County, GA cop who told a white woman at a traffic stop to calm down because, "We only shoot black people (!!!!!!!!!)"... Nice that they're getting their military toys back, eh?
This is what Trump has wrought, and what he wanted to have happen. This is why so many white "Christian" people voted for him. How is there any doubt? The world may go to hell in a handbasket, but if we're all going down, they want to be the ones standing on other people's heads in their stilettos so that they go down last, is that it? What the hell are we supposed to do about this? How is marching and calling Congress supposed to be enough when people like those men are the warp and weft of the country?
posted by droplet at 8:49 AM on August 31, 2017 [10 favorites]
I'm too lazy to get up and grab a bible ( or google it) but in Revelations there is a reference to the rapture. Jesus will appear in the sky and 144,000 true believers will rise up into the clouds to meet him.
This is not in the Bible. There's a reference to 144,000 Jewish virgins in Revelation 7 and 14, but they're not lifted into the sky.
posted by EarBucket at 8:49 AM on August 31, 2017 [12 favorites]
This is not in the Bible. There's a reference to 144,000 Jewish virgins in Revelation 7 and 14, but they're not lifted into the sky.
posted by EarBucket at 8:49 AM on August 31, 2017 [12 favorites]
This would be a totally unremarkable sentence in any other timeline. In this one, however, we now realize that the purpose of the trip was really just to stage another ego-stroking photo-op to placate the Loser In Chief.
That's true, and at the same time I think it is always worth pointing out what should be happening. The author is describing what the Trumps should be doing, and highlighting the vast distance between that and what they are doing. I refuse to accept Trump & Co's framing of our current situation. They can try to bring expectations of the presidency down to nil, but I continue to expect my president to behave as if the people in this country have value and deserve to be lifted up and supported in a time of crisis. Even as I realize the man occupying the office today will never live up to that expectation.
posted by Emmy Rae at 8:50 AM on August 31, 2017 [8 favorites]
That's true, and at the same time I think it is always worth pointing out what should be happening. The author is describing what the Trumps should be doing, and highlighting the vast distance between that and what they are doing. I refuse to accept Trump & Co's framing of our current situation. They can try to bring expectations of the presidency down to nil, but I continue to expect my president to behave as if the people in this country have value and deserve to be lifted up and supported in a time of crisis. Even as I realize the man occupying the office today will never live up to that expectation.
posted by Emmy Rae at 8:50 AM on August 31, 2017 [8 favorites]
I had to Google the Malek dog thing independently because my eyes literally refused to believe what they read on my screen. Lyndon Johnson would've balked at accusing someone of that, for cryin' out loud.
posted by delfin at 8:50 AM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by delfin at 8:50 AM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
corb identifies as female, for the record. Can we drop this now?
posted by Etrigan at 8:50 AM on August 31, 2017 [35 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 8:50 AM on August 31, 2017 [35 favorites]
I'm very sorry to have mis-gendered you, Corb. I should have done my due diligence, there.
posted by greermahoney at 8:53 AM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by greermahoney at 8:53 AM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
What is it with the GOP and dog torture?
posted by PenDevil at 8:55 AM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 8:55 AM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
The author is describing what the Trumps should be doing, and highlighting the vast distance between that and what they are doing.
Oh, absolutely! I wasn't criticizing the article, it just made me realize that we can't even make the simplest assumption -- that they are human have have human emotions -- about this gang.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:58 AM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oh, absolutely! I wasn't criticizing the article, it just made me realize that we can't even make the simplest assumption -- that they are human have have human emotions -- about this gang.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:58 AM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
Prepare to be utterly furious: Video of Georgia police officer: 'We only kill black people'
The video was obtained by WSB Channel 2 in Atlanta. The woman can be heard telling the officer she's afraid to move her hands because of recent police-involved shootings.posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:59 AM on August 31, 2017 [37 favorites]
"Remember, we only kill black people. We only kill black people, right?" the officer from Cobb County tells the woman.
Video of Georgia police officer: 'We only kill black people'
In fairness to the officer, he was only saying what most of us already believe. The main difference between people seems to be whether or not they think that's okay.
posted by Slothrup at 9:06 AM on August 31, 2017 [22 favorites]
In fairness to the officer, he was only saying what most of us already believe. The main difference between people seems to be whether or not they think that's okay.
posted by Slothrup at 9:06 AM on August 31, 2017 [22 favorites]
I mean, you don't have to say or do anything as the partner to the President, but when you don't say anything, your appearance speaks for you, for good or for ill.
That said, the increased coverage of personality traits and minimization of women in politics to being represented by their appearance above their policies is a serious issue with media coverage.That said, the increased coverage of personality traits and minimization of women in politics to being represented by their appearance above their policies is a serious issue with media coverage.
I completely agree, which is why I am so glad that that article made the distinction so articulately.
posted by Autumnheart at 9:07 AM on August 31, 2017
As far as "the" Anti-Christ and rapture and so on goes, almost all of it traces directly to Cyrus Scofield and the Scofield Reference Bible which he released in 1909. Basically Scofield invented an end of the world scenario, went back through the Bible to find parts that seemed to match it, and invented a justification for why you should read certain passages entirely out of context and in his specified order.
His big thing was his claim that all the prophices in the Bible were actually about the end of the world, not about whatever they said they were about. So a bit in Ezekiel can be patched into a few passages from Luke and then added to a sentence in Revelation and presto!
It's also worth noting that the idea of a singular, definite article, Anti-Christ isn't actually Biblical though it does predate Scofield by several centuries.
But nowhere in the Bible will you see a discussion of a singular Anti-Christ. You'll find discussion of Anti-Christs, plural or Anti-Christ as a concept rather than a person, but not a singular evil person who is "the" Anti-Christ.
The person marked with a 666 isn't "the" Anti-Christ either, if you read the passage he's "the Beast", which is a totally different thing.
But people like the idea of singular agents of evil, and since there was a Christ, the idea of a person embodying his opposite and therefore called the Anti-Christ has been around since the earlier days of the Church. It's part of the Christian tradition, but not really part of the Christian scripture.
What's annoying to me is that the people most likely to describe themselves as Biblical literalists are those most likely to believe in the Scofield derived eschatology that has pretty much no Biblical basis at all. They "literally" read a prophecy about a king in the 6th century BCE as being about President Obama or whoever. Because that's totally literal and the plain reading of the text....
I'm also going to plug my favorite Evangelical Christian blogger, Fred Clark, because among all his other amazing stuff he also does a great job of tearing apart the supposed literalism of the believers in all the Scofield derived BS over at his blog.
posted by sotonohito at 9:07 AM on August 31, 2017 [55 favorites]
His big thing was his claim that all the prophices in the Bible were actually about the end of the world, not about whatever they said they were about. So a bit in Ezekiel can be patched into a few passages from Luke and then added to a sentence in Revelation and presto!
It's also worth noting that the idea of a singular, definite article, Anti-Christ isn't actually Biblical though it does predate Scofield by several centuries.
But nowhere in the Bible will you see a discussion of a singular Anti-Christ. You'll find discussion of Anti-Christs, plural or Anti-Christ as a concept rather than a person, but not a singular evil person who is "the" Anti-Christ.
The person marked with a 666 isn't "the" Anti-Christ either, if you read the passage he's "the Beast", which is a totally different thing.
But people like the idea of singular agents of evil, and since there was a Christ, the idea of a person embodying his opposite and therefore called the Anti-Christ has been around since the earlier days of the Church. It's part of the Christian tradition, but not really part of the Christian scripture.
What's annoying to me is that the people most likely to describe themselves as Biblical literalists are those most likely to believe in the Scofield derived eschatology that has pretty much no Biblical basis at all. They "literally" read a prophecy about a king in the 6th century BCE as being about President Obama or whoever. Because that's totally literal and the plain reading of the text....
I'm also going to plug my favorite Evangelical Christian blogger, Fred Clark, because among all his other amazing stuff he also does a great job of tearing apart the supposed literalism of the believers in all the Scofield derived BS over at his blog.
posted by sotonohito at 9:07 AM on August 31, 2017 [55 favorites]
In fairness to the officer, he was only saying what most of us already believe. The main difference between people seems to be whether or not they think that's okay.
McCleskey v. Kemp may need to be relitigated at this point because now we've got them on tape.
posted by Talez at 9:08 AM on August 31, 2017 [8 favorites]
McCleskey v. Kemp may need to be relitigated at this point because now we've got them on tape.
posted by Talez at 9:08 AM on August 31, 2017 [8 favorites]
he was only saying what most of us already believe
And there's not enough context to verify this, but the police are claiming he said it to calm the detainee down, because she'd indicated she believes that during the stop.
Going to wait for the full video before I get outraged.
posted by Coventry at 9:09 AM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
And there's not enough context to verify this, but the police are claiming he said it to calm the detainee down, because she'd indicated she believes that during the stop.
Going to wait for the full video before I get outraged.
posted by Coventry at 9:09 AM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
He's created an odd fusion of a 'global village' and 'Potemkin village'.
At first I thougt this said Patinkin village, which is kind of funny since Mandy Patinkin has a reputation for being a real dick.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:13 AM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
At first I thougt this said Patinkin village, which is kind of funny since Mandy Patinkin has a reputation for being a real dick.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:13 AM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
"The woman, who was a passenger in the vehicle, can be heard telling the officer that she did not want to put her hands down to reach for her phone because “I’ve just seen way too many videos of cops —.”
“But you’re not black,” he interrupted. “Remember, we only kill black people. Yeah, we only kill black people, right? All the videos you’ve seen, have you seen black people get killed? You have.”"
No, he was the one who brought it up. You can be outraged.
posted by cui bono at 9:15 AM on August 31, 2017 [20 favorites]
“But you’re not black,” he interrupted. “Remember, we only kill black people. Yeah, we only kill black people, right? All the videos you’ve seen, have you seen black people get killed? You have.”"
No, he was the one who brought it up. You can be outraged.
posted by cui bono at 9:15 AM on August 31, 2017 [20 favorites]
cui bono, the part I was referring to was
posted by Coventry at 9:17 AM on August 31, 2017
"In context, his comments were clearly aimed at attempting to gain compliance by using the passenger's own statements and reasoning to avoid making an arrest,"I'm waiting for that claimed context.
posted by Coventry at 9:17 AM on August 31, 2017
> The Atlantic article reveals he also skinned and barbecued a dog in a public park, in case you weren't sure just what flavor of insane monster he was.
I don't think she could have been clearer.
posted by guiseroom at 9:21 AM on August 31, 2017 [13 favorites]
I don't think she could have been clearer.
posted by guiseroom at 9:21 AM on August 31, 2017 [13 favorites]
If that cop is trying to calm her down by sarcastically repeating her fears about cops back to her, that doesn't make his comments acceptable.
posted by Emmy Rae at 9:22 AM on August 31, 2017 [45 favorites]
posted by Emmy Rae at 9:22 AM on August 31, 2017 [45 favorites]
Yeah, that is the context. She indicated she was afraid he was going to shoot her, and he said they only shoot black people. Since she wasn't black, what purpose would it have served for her to bring up them shooting black people? She's afraid of police violence in general, and he's trying to de-escalate with a rather terrible reasoning.
posted by cui bono at 9:23 AM on August 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by cui bono at 9:23 AM on August 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
Yeah, the cop isn't admitting to institutional racism, he's playing it as a false narrative that he pretends to agree with in order to humor the woman and calm her down. What's damning is the level of denial you have to be on to see "police sometimes shoot people for no good reason during traffic stops" as on par with lizard-people delusions.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:23 AM on August 31, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:23 AM on August 31, 2017 [6 favorites]
There is literally no context in which that would be an acceptable thing to say. And it's also not true. They (hugely) disproportionately kill black people, but they'll kill anyone.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:24 AM on August 31, 2017 [64 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:24 AM on August 31, 2017 [64 favorites]
Fire his ass and investigate the department, why is this even a question?
posted by Artw at 9:30 AM on August 31, 2017 [31 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:30 AM on August 31, 2017 [31 favorites]
Going to wait for the full video before I get outraged.
Ah, another chapter title for my book about the end of the world.
posted by Etrigan at 9:30 AM on August 31, 2017 [61 favorites]
Ah, another chapter title for my book about the end of the world.
posted by Etrigan at 9:30 AM on August 31, 2017 [61 favorites]
Investigate with extreme prejudice.
posted by Artw at 9:31 AM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:31 AM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
We have enough evidence to condemn the cop now, but let's wait for more context before we condemn the driver as well.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:31 AM on August 31, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:31 AM on August 31, 2017 [6 favorites]
Prepare to be utterly furious: Video of Georgia police officer: 'We only kill black people'
Fucking Cobb County. Fuck Cobb County.
posted by dis_integration at 9:32 AM on August 31, 2017 [12 favorites]
Fucking Cobb County. Fuck Cobb County.
posted by dis_integration at 9:32 AM on August 31, 2017 [12 favorites]
Why was Trump reported to be at Camp David recently? I thought that as a rule, he only stayed at his own properties for the free coverage from the press corps.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:38 AM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:38 AM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
Some people online claiming that someone tried to assassinate Trump yesterday by ramming their car into his motorcade in MO.
Nope. Just some poor lady whose brakes went out at the wrong time.
posted by zakur at 9:38 AM on August 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
Nope. Just some poor lady whose brakes went out at the wrong time.
posted by zakur at 9:38 AM on August 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
Some poor schmuck's inside trying to buy some screws and all the Fastenal guys are outside recording the motorcade.
posted by dirigibleman at 9:45 AM on August 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by dirigibleman at 9:45 AM on August 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
Reuters' National Security correspondent Jonathan Landay: BREAKING: State Dept spox: #Russia ordered to close San Francisco consulate and diplomatic annexes in Washington and New York by Sept. 2
BBC News: Although the state department said the US actions were in response to the "unwarranted and detrimental" reduction in the US mission in Russia, it also suggested it wanted an end to the current spat.
"While there will continue to be a disparity in the number of diplomatic and consular annexes, we have chosen to allow the Russian Government to maintain some of its annexes in an effort to arrest the downward spiral in our relationship," the state department said in its statement on Thursday.
posted by rewil at 9:55 AM on August 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
BBC News: Although the state department said the US actions were in response to the "unwarranted and detrimental" reduction in the US mission in Russia, it also suggested it wanted an end to the current spat.
"While there will continue to be a disparity in the number of diplomatic and consular annexes, we have chosen to allow the Russian Government to maintain some of its annexes in an effort to arrest the downward spiral in our relationship," the state department said in its statement on Thursday.
posted by rewil at 9:55 AM on August 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
Some poor schmuck's inside trying to buy some screws and all the Fastenal guys are outside recording the motorcade.
Oh wow, a chance to rag on Fastenal an have it be vaguely on-topic (sort of). When I ordered screws from them, they took four days to ship and went through some subcontractor or vendor who deleted the suite number from my address, making it really hard to actually get the package. I suspect they don't carry any stock and just have stuff drop shipped from real vendors. Anyway, they suck. McMaster-Carr all the way!
posted by ryanrs at 10:02 AM on August 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
Oh wow, a chance to rag on Fastenal an have it be vaguely on-topic (sort of). When I ordered screws from them, they took four days to ship and went through some subcontractor or vendor who deleted the suite number from my address, making it really hard to actually get the package. I suspect they don't carry any stock and just have stuff drop shipped from real vendors. Anyway, they suck. McMaster-Carr all the way!
posted by ryanrs at 10:02 AM on August 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
WaPo: Trump treasury secretary won’t commit to putting Harriet Tubman on $20 bill. These people just wake up every day dedicated to finding new ways to be assholes.
posted by zachlipton at 10:08 AM on August 31, 2017 [73 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 10:08 AM on August 31, 2017 [73 favorites]
"In context, his comments were clearly aimed at attempting to gain compliance by using the passenger's own statements and reasoning to avoid making an arrest,"
I'm waiting for that claimed context.
Yeah, even if this were true, if you're not bright enough to know better than to say that under *any* circumstances, you don't need to be wearing a badge.
posted by Rykey at 10:08 AM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm waiting for that claimed context.
Yeah, even if this were true, if you're not bright enough to know better than to say that under *any* circumstances, you don't need to be wearing a badge.
posted by Rykey at 10:08 AM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
Although the state department said the US actions were in response to the "unwarranted and detrimental" reduction in the US mission in Russia, it also suggested it wanted an end to the current spat.
"Let us do this thing and don't do anything back so the dipshit in the White House feels like he got the last word, okay?"
Diplomacy at its finest. So tired of winning. So tired. Exhausted, really.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:09 AM on August 31, 2017
"Let us do this thing and don't do anything back so the dipshit in the White House feels like he got the last word, okay?"
Diplomacy at its finest. So tired of winning. So tired. Exhausted, really.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:09 AM on August 31, 2017
To hell with counties. Parishes are where it's at.
posted by guiseroom at 10:17 AM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by guiseroom at 10:17 AM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
These people just wake up every day dedicated to finding new ways to be assholes.
No, they don't. What they do is look at this page, and pick something to roll back or undo. That's it, that's the whole plan and strategy.
posted by rhizome at 10:19 AM on August 31, 2017 [13 favorites]
No, they don't. What they do is look at this page, and pick something to roll back or undo. That's it, that's the whole plan and strategy.
posted by rhizome at 10:19 AM on August 31, 2017 [13 favorites]
These people just wake up every day dedicated to finding new ways to be assholes.
"...Be not afraid of assholes. Some are born assholes, some achieve asshole, and some have asshole thrust upon 'em."
Clearly we're dealing with asshole achievers.
posted by notyou at 10:20 AM on August 31, 2017
"...Be not afraid of assholes. Some are born assholes, some achieve asshole, and some have asshole thrust upon 'em."
Clearly we're dealing with asshole achievers.
posted by notyou at 10:20 AM on August 31, 2017
It is transparently obviously that 'preventing counterfeiting' has exactly nothing to do with whose portrait is on the bill; and Trump is on the record saying that he doesn't want Tubman on the $20. This isn't exactly a hard puzzle to solve.
Not only that, but US currency is among the easiest to counterfeit, and has been for generations.
posted by rhizome at 10:22 AM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
Not only that, but US currency is among the easiest to counterfeit, and has been for generations.
posted by rhizome at 10:22 AM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
My god, I detest all of these people so very much - not least because I didn't know I had this much hate in me. How am I supposed to be sane - let alone a pacifist - in the face of all this?
*breathing*
posted by Space Kitty at 10:23 AM on August 31, 2017 [47 favorites]
*breathing*
posted by Space Kitty at 10:23 AM on August 31, 2017 [47 favorites]
It is transparently obviously that 'preventing counterfeiting' has exactly nothing to do with whose portrait is on the bill; and Trump is on the record saying that he doesn't want Tubman on the $20. This isn't exactly a hard puzzle to solve.
Not only that, but US currency is among the easiest to counterfeit, and has been for generations.
They're working really hard on the demand side of the equation, at least.
posted by Etrigan at 10:24 AM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
Not only that, but US currency is among the easiest to counterfeit, and has been for generations.
They're working really hard on the demand side of the equation, at least.
posted by Etrigan at 10:24 AM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
So second-hand, then.
posted by rhizome at 10:24 AM on August 31, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 10:24 AM on August 31, 2017 [14 favorites]
President Trump sure does have a terrible track record of actually clearly communicating what he means to people who aren't on his staff. using words to mean things
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:24 AM on August 31, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:24 AM on August 31, 2017 [14 favorites]
And when I said "first-hand" I, of course, meant "not first-hand".
posted by Justinian at 10:29 AM on August 31, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 10:29 AM on August 31, 2017 [6 favorites]
It was locker-room prescriptivism you guys, come on.
posted by Behemoth at 10:33 AM on August 31, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Behemoth at 10:33 AM on August 31, 2017 [10 favorites]
“Well, Andrew Jackson had a great history, and I think it's very rough when you take somebody off the bill,” Trump said last year.
He then added: "And I learned something interesting—lot of people don't know this—but Harriet Tubman's Underground Railroad wasn't even a railroad! A better word for it would be Underground Crime Ring. With the help of a lot of shady characters, she was responsible for stealing millions of dollars worth of property from a lot of fine, upstanding citizens. Good, southern people. But nobody talks about that." [fake]
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:36 AM on August 31, 2017 [24 favorites]
He then added: "And I learned something interesting—lot of people don't know this—but Harriet Tubman's Underground Railroad wasn't even a railroad! A better word for it would be Underground Crime Ring. With the help of a lot of shady characters, she was responsible for stealing millions of dollars worth of property from a lot of fine, upstanding citizens. Good, southern people. But nobody talks about that." [fake]
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:36 AM on August 31, 2017 [24 favorites]
As soon as I realized Trump had won I figured the Tubman bill would have to be delayed until he was out of office.
I think we ought to have a program to cycle the faces on our bills ever 10 years or so anyway. There's lots of people who are interesting American citizens who don't get enough attention. I'd like to suggest we get Washington off the $1 and replace him with Ida B Wells for our next bill change.
posted by sotonohito at 10:43 AM on August 31, 2017 [17 favorites]
I think we ought to have a program to cycle the faces on our bills ever 10 years or so anyway. There's lots of people who are interesting American citizens who don't get enough attention. I'd like to suggest we get Washington off the $1 and replace him with Ida B Wells for our next bill change.
posted by sotonohito at 10:43 AM on August 31, 2017 [17 favorites]
Matt Negrin on defining "first hand" as "second hand" and disappointment with the WH press corps for repeating lies.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 10:44 AM on August 31, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 10:44 AM on August 31, 2017 [9 favorites]
In Trump's reality, seeing something on TV is seeing it firsthand.
posted by Rykey at 11:01 AM on August 31, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by Rykey at 11:01 AM on August 31, 2017 [32 favorites]
There are supposedly booms expected today, and here's one, albeit incredibly vague and out of context. NBC: Manafort Notes From Russian Meet Contain Cryptic Reference to ‘Donations’
Also, hold up. Manafort took notes at the damn meeting?
posted by zachlipton at 11:02 AM on August 31, 2017 [37 favorites]
Paul Manafort's notes from a controversial Trump Tower meeting with Russians during the 2016 presidential campaign included the word "donations," near a reference to the Republican National Committee, two sources briefed on the evidence told NBC News.With any luck, the usual media machine will have four stories ping-ponging between the Times and the Post filling in more details, ending in publication of the notes themselves.
The references, which were not previously disclosed, elevated the significance of the June 2016 meeting for congressional investigators, who are focused on determining whether it included any discussion of donations from Russian sources to either the Trump campaign or the Republican Party.
It is illegal for foreigners to donate to American elections. The meeting happened just as Trump had secured the Republican nomination for president, and he was considered a longshot to win. Manafort was the campaign chairman at the time.
Manafort's notes, typed on a smart phone and described by one briefed source as cryptic, were turned over to the House and Senate intelligence committees and to Special Counsel Robert Mueller. They contained the words "donations," and "RNC" in close proximity, the sources said.
Also, hold up. Manafort took notes at the damn meeting?
posted by zachlipton at 11:02 AM on August 31, 2017 [37 favorites]
Matt Negrin on defining "first hand" as "second hand" and disappointment with the WH press corps for repeating lies.
"Disappointment" implies that one expects something different, but after more than a year of Trump on the campaign trail and in the White House -- to say nothing of the years of phony "birtherism" -- I doubt that's a valid expectation any more.
Much of the media seems to have decided that being vigilant at pointing out the lies of a president that lies routinely is somehow "partisan."
posted by Gelatin at 11:03 AM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
"Disappointment" implies that one expects something different, but after more than a year of Trump on the campaign trail and in the White House -- to say nothing of the years of phony "birtherism" -- I doubt that's a valid expectation any more.
Much of the media seems to have decided that being vigilant at pointing out the lies of a president that lies routinely is somehow "partisan."
posted by Gelatin at 11:03 AM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
Manafort, is you takin' notes on a criminal fuckin' conspiracy?
posted by kirkaracha at 11:10 AM on August 31, 2017 [80 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 11:10 AM on August 31, 2017 [80 favorites]
This is firmly in the "leak about a thing that may happen, presumably in an attempt to influence a decision" category, so take it for whatever you think it's worth, but McClatchy reports that Trump will end DACA as soon as tomorrow. There have been similar reports from AP and Axios. That headline is quite misleading; "but allow some Dreamers to stay temporarily" will be the Republican spin about how wonderfully compassionate they are, but it's really just "end DACA by not allowing anyone to renew their work permits."
Vox has a DACAsplainer if you want to know who is impacted and what this all means, but I'd recommend Greg Sargent's take:
Vox has a DACAsplainer if you want to know who is impacted and what this all means, but I'd recommend Greg Sargent's take:
So Trump is likely to side with the immigration hard-liners, who are leaking that they believe keeping this executive action violates the Constitution — and this will be the defense for ending it.posted by zachlipton at 11:10 AM on August 31, 2017 [14 favorites]
Are you freaking kidding me? Are we really supposed to believe the constitutionality of the program is weighing on Trump or will be instrumental in shaping his final decision?
It is a truly shocking coincidence that the same advisers who are telling Trump that DACA is unconstitutional were also the ones most responsible for the disguised Muslim ban and also pushed Trump to pardon Joe Arpaio. Bannon and Miller were key drivers of the ban’s original rollout. They both reportedly favored pardoning Arpaio. My point is not just that this strongly suggests their view of DACA’s constitutionality is rooted in their hostility to immigrants, though it does.
It’s also that this hints at an amusing double standard on the part of the White House’s immigration hard-line faction when it comes to the care with which they approach Trump’s exercise of his authority. Bannon and Miller’s haste to rush out the travel ban led them to trample all over the proper legal process for such measures, which in turn helped lead to its initial blockage by the courts. Bannon and Miller also appear to have privately told Trump that pardoning Arpaio would please his base, which only underscores how cavalier they were about a major decision with serious separation-of-powers implications. While Trump’s pardon power is quasi-absolute, there is widespread agreement that this nonetheless constituted an abuse of his power, something that plainly did not concern Bannon and Miller.
...
So this is not a slam-dunk case in either direction. But does anyone really believe that Trump, Bannon or Miller, of all people, are motivated by any good-faith effort to determine whether DACA constitutes an abuse of the president’s power? Come on now. Seriously?
These guys utter such a prodigious amount of unbelievably stupid opinions that it is silly to even attempt to rank them.
[Deep breath]
That said, "it's harder to counterfeit a white male face than a black female face" is up there.
posted by orange ball at 11:13 AM on August 31, 2017 [18 favorites]
[Deep breath]
That said, "it's harder to counterfeit a white male face than a black female face" is up there.
posted by orange ball at 11:13 AM on August 31, 2017 [18 favorites]
Does anyone have a link to today's press briefing?
posted by mefireader at 11:19 AM on August 31, 2017
posted by mefireader at 11:19 AM on August 31, 2017
And I know that's probably a really unfair interpretation. But...maybe it isn't?
posted by orange ball at 11:20 AM on August 31, 2017
posted by orange ball at 11:20 AM on August 31, 2017
filthy light thief: In other news, the FCC website makes it fairly easily for anyone to upload anything, without moderation (Sean Gallagher, Ars Technica, Aug. 31, 2017)
This story now has its own post.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:20 AM on August 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
This story now has its own post.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:20 AM on August 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
Does anyone have a link to today's press briefing?
Spicey Time
posted by OverlappingElvis at 11:20 AM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
Spicey Time
posted by OverlappingElvis at 11:20 AM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
Apologies to anyone my comments caused disturbance to. I am aware that police are atrociously violent towards PoC, and I agree with spitbull that police should favor rhetorical methods like the cop used here when interacting with PoC, and that it is a sign of institutional racism that they don't.
posted by Coventry at 11:31 AM on August 31, 2017
posted by Coventry at 11:31 AM on August 31, 2017
Manafort, is you takin' notes on a criminal fuckin' conspiracy?
Mueller comin'! Muellers comin', yo!
posted by Justinian at 11:42 AM on August 31, 2017 [16 favorites]
Mueller comin'! Muellers comin', yo!
posted by Justinian at 11:42 AM on August 31, 2017 [16 favorites]
If it turns out that the entire Republican establishment is neck deep in this Russia bullshit, at least as far as receiving foreign donations... what then? The government is controlled by a criminal organization at that point? Like... what happens?
posted by Justinian at 11:43 AM on August 31, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 11:43 AM on August 31, 2017 [24 favorites]
McSweeny's delivers a clapback to the NYT and Erik Prince from none other than Boba Fett: Bounty Hunters, Not Stormtroopers, Will Save the Galactic Empire
My proposal is for the Empire to hire my band of celestial war criminals... We would hunt them down one by one and probably commit a bunch of space war crimes in the process. The Galactic Empire would never have to answer for these crimes because my co-mercenaries and I would technically just be a bunch of independent contractors. Thank you again to the New York Times for letting me advertise my openly criminal enterprise in the pages of your prestigious newspaper.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:43 AM on August 31, 2017 [46 favorites]
My proposal is for the Empire to hire my band of celestial war criminals... We would hunt them down one by one and probably commit a bunch of space war crimes in the process. The Galactic Empire would never have to answer for these crimes because my co-mercenaries and I would technically just be a bunch of independent contractors. Thank you again to the New York Times for letting me advertise my openly criminal enterprise in the pages of your prestigious newspaper.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:43 AM on August 31, 2017 [46 favorites]
Certain Republicans will be Deeply Concerned.
posted by delfin at 11:46 AM on August 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by delfin at 11:46 AM on August 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
Whoops! According to my ears and the CC, Katie Tur just mentioned the Manafort donation note as it relates to Russian abortions.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:54 AM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Room 641-A at 11:54 AM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yes, yes she did. I winced. (She meant adoptions of course.)
posted by Justinian at 11:56 AM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 11:56 AM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
If it turns out that the entire Republican establishment is neck deep in this Russia bullshit, at least as far as receiving foreign donations... what then? The government is controlled by a criminal organization at that point? Like... what happens?
Rebranding exercise.
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:56 AM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
Rebranding exercise.
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:56 AM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
a pivot (in the current meaningless meaning of the term).
posted by Golem XIV at 11:57 AM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Golem XIV at 11:57 AM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
Justinian If it turns out that the entire Republican establishment is neck deep in this Russia bullshit, at least as far as receiving foreign donations... what then? The government is controlled by a criminal organization at that point? Like... what happens?
I think that's fundamentally unknowable.
What they **WANT** to happen, of course, is for it all to blow over like Iran Contra and all the other Republican scandals have.
Legally, of course, nothing happens. Even if, in theory, some Republican politicians are prosecutable no one will bring charges, and if by some miracle charges are brought Trump will pardon.
Would there be a revolution? A series of mass protests forcing a peaceful regime change? A massive Democratic victory in 2018?
I have no idea. I don't think anyone can predict the actual outcome.
My pessimistic side says that there'd be some desultory protests and otherwise nothing much would happen. My really pessimistic side says that Trump and his followers would use the protests as a pretext for even more voter restrictions or violence.
I think anyone hoping for actual criminal convictions is going to be out of luck. The rules don't apply to Republicans, that's the fundamental law of American politics right now and has been for my entire life. I see no reason to think that will change with this latest scandal even if it does reach deep into the Party. Hell, especially if it does reach deep into the Party.
The only real question is whether that's going to push a large enough percentage of Americans sufficiently out of their comfort zone to engage in mass protests. And I think the answer is no. Big protests, yes. Mass protests that successfully shut down the country and cause billions of dollars in lost business every day to force Trump and the Republicans to resign? Not a chance. We'll have our little protest, Trump will whine that we're being unfair, the media will cite mythic violence or lawbreaking from the protesters, and the Republicans will move on to inevitable gerrymandered victory in 2018.
It takes a lot to push people to the sort of mass protests that can actually force regime change. America isn't anywhere near uncomfortable enough for that yet.
And we won't be if the Republicans take their predicted 53% of the House seats after winning their predicted 44% of the popular vote in 2018. It should be enough, hell Trump "winning" after losing the vote by nearly 5 million should have been enough. But it won't be.
posted by sotonohito at 11:58 AM on August 31, 2017 [17 favorites]
I think that's fundamentally unknowable.
What they **WANT** to happen, of course, is for it all to blow over like Iran Contra and all the other Republican scandals have.
Legally, of course, nothing happens. Even if, in theory, some Republican politicians are prosecutable no one will bring charges, and if by some miracle charges are brought Trump will pardon.
Would there be a revolution? A series of mass protests forcing a peaceful regime change? A massive Democratic victory in 2018?
I have no idea. I don't think anyone can predict the actual outcome.
My pessimistic side says that there'd be some desultory protests and otherwise nothing much would happen. My really pessimistic side says that Trump and his followers would use the protests as a pretext for even more voter restrictions or violence.
I think anyone hoping for actual criminal convictions is going to be out of luck. The rules don't apply to Republicans, that's the fundamental law of American politics right now and has been for my entire life. I see no reason to think that will change with this latest scandal even if it does reach deep into the Party. Hell, especially if it does reach deep into the Party.
The only real question is whether that's going to push a large enough percentage of Americans sufficiently out of their comfort zone to engage in mass protests. And I think the answer is no. Big protests, yes. Mass protests that successfully shut down the country and cause billions of dollars in lost business every day to force Trump and the Republicans to resign? Not a chance. We'll have our little protest, Trump will whine that we're being unfair, the media will cite mythic violence or lawbreaking from the protesters, and the Republicans will move on to inevitable gerrymandered victory in 2018.
It takes a lot to push people to the sort of mass protests that can actually force regime change. America isn't anywhere near uncomfortable enough for that yet.
And we won't be if the Republicans take their predicted 53% of the House seats after winning their predicted 44% of the popular vote in 2018. It should be enough, hell Trump "winning" after losing the vote by nearly 5 million should have been enough. But it won't be.
posted by sotonohito at 11:58 AM on August 31, 2017 [17 favorites]
If it turns out that the entire Republican establishment is neck deep in this Russia bullshit, at least as far as receiving foreign donations... what then? The government is controlled by a criminal organization at that point? Like... what happens?
Pardons for everyone, no impeachment, and loud denunciation of Democrats for undermining Americans' faith in democracy by exposing all this. They'll also go off about Democrats making Republicans do something so extreme to keep Hillary Clinton out of office, which was obviously necessary because of her emails.
I'm not even kidding. When the truth comes out, the Republican establishment will blame it on Democrats.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:00 PM on August 31, 2017 [45 favorites]
Pardons for everyone, no impeachment, and loud denunciation of Democrats for undermining Americans' faith in democracy by exposing all this. They'll also go off about Democrats making Republicans do something so extreme to keep Hillary Clinton out of office, which was obviously necessary because of her emails.
I'm not even kidding. When the truth comes out, the Republican establishment will blame it on Democrats.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:00 PM on August 31, 2017 [45 favorites]
Mod note: Couple comments removed, let's drop that back and forth and move on at this point.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:06 PM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:06 PM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
WaPo: Trump treasury secretary won’t commit to putting Harriet Tubman on $20 bill.
Hey guys, I think I understand the "economic anxiety" of Trump voters now.
They were worried they'd have to see a heroic black woman on the $20 bill.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:06 PM on August 31, 2017 [39 favorites]
Hey guys, I think I understand the "economic anxiety" of Trump voters now.
They were worried they'd have to see a heroic black woman on the $20 bill.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:06 PM on August 31, 2017 [39 favorites]
> I am aware that police are atrociously violent towards PoC, and I agree with spitbull that police should favor rhetorical methods like the cop used here when interacting with PoC, and that it is a sign of institutional racism that they don't.
Police should also (as a matter of even the most basic professionalism) realise that, as public servants, anything they say while on the job is public (and likely to very so these days), attributable, and has consequences.
In this case the main consequence is that even if it /was/ to calm a person this time, every PoC who gets stopped now is going to be a lot less calm facing an organisation whose representative has openly stated that summary execution is a realistic outcome* based entirely on their skin colour.
That should absolutely be a career ending moment.
* Particularly given the overwhelming unstated evidence that that is the case.
posted by Buntix at 12:06 PM on August 31, 2017 [9 favorites]
Police should also (as a matter of even the most basic professionalism) realise that, as public servants, anything they say while on the job is public (and likely to very so these days), attributable, and has consequences.
In this case the main consequence is that even if it /was/ to calm a person this time, every PoC who gets stopped now is going to be a lot less calm facing an organisation whose representative has openly stated that summary execution is a realistic outcome* based entirely on their skin colour.
That should absolutely be a career ending moment.
* Particularly given the overwhelming unstated evidence that that is the case.
posted by Buntix at 12:06 PM on August 31, 2017 [9 favorites]
Natalia Veselnitskaya: This is a criminal conspiracy meeting! Don't take notes!
Bullwinkle J. Manafort (repeating as he writes): This is a criminal conspiracy meeting! Don't take notes!
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:08 PM on August 31, 2017 [56 favorites]
Bullwinkle J. Manafort (repeating as he writes): This is a criminal conspiracy meeting! Don't take notes!
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:08 PM on August 31, 2017 [56 favorites]
Metafilter: let's drop that back and forth and move on at this point.
posted by Melismata at 12:12 PM on August 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 12:12 PM on August 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
If it turns out that the entire Republican establishment is neck deep in this Russia bullshit, at least as far as receiving foreign donations... what then? The government is controlled by a criminal organization at that point? Like... what happens?
Precisely what is currently happening.
It's been pretty obvious for a while that the RNC was not just acquiescent but complicit. Hell the RNC leadership and power players openly joked on tape about one of their ilk being Putin's paid flunky (R California - Dana Rohrabacher) in addition to Trump and Ryan made sure to mention that it should be kept on the down low with a double pinkie sworn oath of secrecy.
posted by srboisvert at 12:13 PM on August 31, 2017 [31 favorites]
Precisely what is currently happening.
It's been pretty obvious for a while that the RNC was not just acquiescent but complicit. Hell the RNC leadership and power players openly joked on tape about one of their ilk being Putin's paid flunky (R California - Dana Rohrabacher) in addition to Trump and Ryan made sure to mention that it should be kept on the down low with a double pinkie sworn oath of secrecy.
posted by srboisvert at 12:13 PM on August 31, 2017 [31 favorites]
I think you'll find it much less stressful, lalex.
posted by orrnyereg at 12:24 PM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by orrnyereg at 12:24 PM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
The topic was about whether viewing the full video before passing judgement was useful or not.
posted by Melismata at 12:25 PM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 12:25 PM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
You'd think they'd want a gun-toting bad-ass on the 20. [Picture is stylized and not a photograph.]
Unless there was some other reason...
posted by corb at 12:33 PM on August 31, 2017 [10 favorites]
Unless there was some other reason...
posted by corb at 12:33 PM on August 31, 2017 [10 favorites]
the main consequence is that even if it /was/ to calm a person this time, every PoC who gets stopped now is going to be a lot less calm facing an organisation whose representative has openly stated that summary execution is a realistic outcome* based entirely on their skin colour.
Thanks, Buntix. I understand the harm now. Sorry I was slow to get it, everyone.
posted by Coventry at 12:45 PM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
Thanks, Buntix. I understand the harm now. Sorry I was slow to get it, everyone.
posted by Coventry at 12:45 PM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
Benjamin Wittes has this as a Boom! so I'm hoping someone here can explain the boominess to me; my mind is shot.
Yeah, I'm not sure "Trump's lawyers insist Trump is innocent of crime" is boomworthy. I think Wittes is just looking for excuses to fire his baby cannons at this point. can't say I blame him
posted by Roommate at 12:47 PM on August 31, 2017 [10 favorites]
Yeah, I'm not sure "Trump's lawyers insist Trump is innocent of crime" is boomworthy. I think Wittes is just looking for excuses to fire his baby cannons at this point. can't say I blame him
posted by Roommate at 12:47 PM on August 31, 2017 [10 favorites]
This has gone past the "it is preposterous that the President could ever be charged with this crime" stage of deniability, and leapt into "since it's now no longer preposterous, here are more reasons than H&R Block why it's not really a crime and you should stop probing."
Smoke, meet Smouldering.
posted by delfin at 12:51 PM on August 31, 2017 [8 favorites]
Smoke, meet Smouldering.
posted by delfin at 12:51 PM on August 31, 2017 [8 favorites]
(Hana Michels' next piece will be on Cannon Guys)
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 12:52 PM on August 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 12:52 PM on August 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
>> Trump Attorneys Lay Out Arguments Against Obstruction-of-Justice Probe to Mueller
> Benjamin Wittes has this as a Boom! so I'm hoping someone here can explain the boominess to me; my mind is shot.
I think the point is, his attorneys are not laying out arguments that Trump should not be prosecuted for being a goat-fucker, because that is not a serious concern at this time. Whereas for obstruction of justice...
(But I as a non-lawyer don't see how he could obstruct justice in a more obvious manner than leaning on someone to drop an investigation and then firing him and then bragging to the Russians that the heat was off... That's why I don't get paid the big bucks, I guess.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 12:56 PM on August 31, 2017 [8 favorites]
> Benjamin Wittes has this as a Boom! so I'm hoping someone here can explain the boominess to me; my mind is shot.
I think the point is, his attorneys are not laying out arguments that Trump should not be prosecuted for being a goat-fucker, because that is not a serious concern at this time. Whereas for obstruction of justice...
(But I as a non-lawyer don't see how he could obstruct justice in a more obvious manner than leaning on someone to drop an investigation and then firing him and then bragging to the Russians that the heat was off... That's why I don't get paid the big bucks, I guess.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 12:56 PM on August 31, 2017 [8 favorites]
More-obvious obstruction of justice looks like what Goatfucker Arpaio was convicted of.
posted by rhizome at 1:02 PM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 1:02 PM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
corb: You'd think they'd want a gun-toting bad-ass on the 20.
If you needed any other reason to support Harriet Tubman on the $20, track down and watch the Minty episode of Underground (FanFare link; here's a transcript, which lacks the true impact of Aisha Hinds's delivery, but it's still fantastic.) Seriously, Underground is great, and I really enjoyed their depiction of Harriet Tubman, American badass.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:06 PM on August 31, 2017 [12 favorites]
If you needed any other reason to support Harriet Tubman on the $20, track down and watch the Minty episode of Underground (FanFare link; here's a transcript, which lacks the true impact of Aisha Hinds's delivery, but it's still fantastic.) Seriously, Underground is great, and I really enjoyed their depiction of Harriet Tubman, American badass.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:06 PM on August 31, 2017 [12 favorites]
"RZA is my favorite" is the boring answer, but it's boring because it's the most likely to be true.
Solid analysis but unacceptable in the GOP for religious reasons, since RZA wrote a book of Taoist wisdom. So GZA it is, I guess.
posted by msalt at 1:07 PM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
Solid analysis but unacceptable in the GOP for religious reasons, since RZA wrote a book of Taoist wisdom. So GZA it is, I guess.
posted by msalt at 1:07 PM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
Manchin's "I don't give a shit" strategy seems to be working.
Julia Manchester, The Hill: Poll: West Virginians approve of Dem senator more than Trump
West Virginia voters are more likely to approve of their Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin than President Trump, according to a MetroNews West Virginia poll released on Thursday.
Fifty-one percent of West Virginia voters polled said they approved of Manchin, while 48 percent approved of Trump.
Sen. Shelley Moore Capito (W.Va.) trailed her Democratic counterpart, with 40 percent of voters polled saying they approved of the Republican.
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:10 PM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
Julia Manchester, The Hill: Poll: West Virginians approve of Dem senator more than Trump
West Virginia voters are more likely to approve of their Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin than President Trump, according to a MetroNews West Virginia poll released on Thursday.
Fifty-one percent of West Virginia voters polled said they approved of Manchin, while 48 percent approved of Trump.
Sen. Shelley Moore Capito (W.Va.) trailed her Democratic counterpart, with 40 percent of voters polled saying they approved of the Republican.
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:10 PM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
File under "elections have consequences": Town Investigated by Obama Justice Department Brings "Walking While Black" Charges
posted by tonycpsu at 1:14 PM on August 31, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 1:14 PM on August 31, 2017 [12 favorites]
MetaFilter: this kind of public-private partnership, where things get a bit wibbly.
posted by petebest at 1:18 PM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by petebest at 1:18 PM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
I think [the rapture] was more or less invented from whole cloth, by some 19th century tent revival preachers. I'm sure believers have twisted up some kind of Biblical support, but it does indeed sound like, uh, fake theology.
The only Bible verse that directly matches the contemporary Rapture concept is 1 Thessalonians 4:17, according to this complilation of KJV Bible verses:
Matthew 24:29-31 - "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light..."
1 Corinthians 15:52 -"In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last Trump [Barron?]: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."
1 Thessalonians 4:16 - "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the Trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first."
Revelation 20:2-5 - "And he [the Night King?] laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years..."
posted by msalt at 1:24 PM on August 31, 2017 [6 favorites]
The only Bible verse that directly matches the contemporary Rapture concept is 1 Thessalonians 4:17, according to this complilation of KJV Bible verses:
"Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."There were also some other disturbing echoes of modern life in the list, though:
Matthew 24:29-31 - "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light..."
1 Corinthians 15:52 -"In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last Trump [Barron?]: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."
1 Thessalonians 4:16 - "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the Trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first."
Revelation 20:2-5 - "And he [the Night King?] laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years..."
posted by msalt at 1:24 PM on August 31, 2017 [6 favorites]
Sheriff Clarke just resigned his position in Milwaukee. I'm sure he has even more odious plans lined up.
posted by zachlipton at 1:29 PM on August 31, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 1:29 PM on August 31, 2017 [20 favorites]
Some analysis of the WSJ report from Marc Elias [twitter thread, condensed]:
This is highly unusual unless you have a good sense that the prosecutors are moving against your client. Which is why these types of submissions usually come closer to the end rather than the beginning of an investigation. And they are usually done when the facts are fairly well developed and you are trying to move prosecutors on the law instead. In the context of what else in publicly known, this is the biggest, most significant development thus far. And, going after Comey's credibility seems particularly desperate and almost certain to fail.posted by melissasaurus at 1:31 PM on August 31, 2017 [35 favorites]
Trump is playing an endgame.
Blow's gonna have to come up with more compelling evidence than "this would be best for him" to convince me Trump is enacting any plan with more than 2 steps and a time horizon past a week. You wanna say Trump looked for max exposure for his Arapio evil because he thought it would benefit him to get more attention from his base of evil racists? Okiedoke, you bet. That he's looking many steps forward and inoculating himself against a future removal/electoral loss? Too self aware, to accepting of a possible defeat, too forward-looking. Trump drives with his eyes on the 30 feet in front of him; past that point may as well not even exist.
Sherrif Clarke has resigned. Is he filling the Homeland Security vacancy that Kelly left?
I really want to believe he couldn't get confirmed but...
posted by phearlez at 1:32 PM on August 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
Blow's gonna have to come up with more compelling evidence than "this would be best for him" to convince me Trump is enacting any plan with more than 2 steps and a time horizon past a week. You wanna say Trump looked for max exposure for his Arapio evil because he thought it would benefit him to get more attention from his base of evil racists? Okiedoke, you bet. That he's looking many steps forward and inoculating himself against a future removal/electoral loss? Too self aware, to accepting of a possible defeat, too forward-looking. Trump drives with his eyes on the 30 feet in front of him; past that point may as well not even exist.
Sherrif Clarke has resigned. Is he filling the Homeland Security vacancy that Kelly left?
I really want to believe he couldn't get confirmed but...
posted by phearlez at 1:32 PM on August 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
He's going shopping for a whole mess of new medal like jacket pins.
posted by cmfletcher at 1:33 PM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by cmfletcher at 1:33 PM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
So many pokemon medals.
posted by Artw at 1:34 PM on August 31, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Artw at 1:34 PM on August 31, 2017 [8 favorites]
The sabotage of the ACA continues. Funding for ads to encourage people to sign up will be cut 90% (from $100M to $10M) and funding for navigators who help enrollees sign up will be cut 39%.
"The surest way to kill the exchanges is to keep them a secret"
posted by zachlipton at 1:35 PM on August 31, 2017 [27 favorites]
"The surest way to kill the exchanges is to keep them a secret"
posted by zachlipton at 1:35 PM on August 31, 2017 [27 favorites]
Sherrif Clarke has resigned. Is he filling the Homeland Security vacancy that Kelly left?
I really want to believe he couldn't get confirmed but...
Ya know, it occurs to me this is also a perfect example of the Trumpian inability to plan more than a step ahead. Responsible people (yeah yeah...) who are looking to install a controversial person in a position requiring confirmation would look to insure they can get them confirmed. Both so as to not look like assholes and not to fuck over the appointee. But there's no way you check in with 50 Senators on this and keep it under your hat, which is anathema to Trump and his need for a big splash. So instead this dummy might find himself with no job (here's hoping) because Trump needs a spectacle and can't imagine not getting his way.
posted by phearlez at 1:36 PM on August 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
I really want to believe he couldn't get confirmed but...
Ya know, it occurs to me this is also a perfect example of the Trumpian inability to plan more than a step ahead. Responsible people (yeah yeah...) who are looking to install a controversial person in a position requiring confirmation would look to insure they can get them confirmed. Both so as to not look like assholes and not to fuck over the appointee. But there's no way you check in with 50 Senators on this and keep it under your hat, which is anathema to Trump and his need for a big splash. So instead this dummy might find himself with no job (here's hoping) because Trump needs a spectacle and can't imagine not getting his way.
posted by phearlez at 1:36 PM on August 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
Some analysis of the WSJ report from Marc Elias
Can someone who can get behind the paywall synopsize the WSJ report, please?
posted by msalt at 1:38 PM on August 31, 2017
Can someone who can get behind the paywall synopsize the WSJ report, please?
posted by msalt at 1:38 PM on August 31, 2017
Fingers crossed.
I'd say someone should check in with Feinstein on this but she is a lost cause.
posted by Artw at 1:38 PM on August 31, 2017
I'd say someone should check in with Feinstein on this but she is a lost cause.
posted by Artw at 1:38 PM on August 31, 2017
Rep Adam Schiff: I'm introducing an amendment to prohibit payment of @SecretService funds to Trump businesses. @POTUS should not profit off of the Presidency
He'd just get his "reelection" campaign to pay for it and still write it off as a business loss.
posted by tilde at 1:40 PM on August 31, 2017
He'd just get his "reelection" campaign to pay for it and still write it off as a business loss.
posted by tilde at 1:40 PM on August 31, 2017
Can someone who can get behind the paywall synopsize the WSJ report, please?
You can read it yourself here (which I mean in the nicest of paywall bypassing ways, not in a rude "go do it yourself" sense). The very short version is that Trump's lawyers have been trying to convince Mueller's team Trump didn't obstruct justice and that Comey is an unreliable witness, and if you're playing defense like that, it's really not a good sign for you.
In general, the WSJ paywall can be bypassed by searching for the article's headline on twitter and following a link to the story from a tweet. The web: it's so user-friendly!
posted by zachlipton at 1:43 PM on August 31, 2017 [9 favorites]
You can read it yourself here (which I mean in the nicest of paywall bypassing ways, not in a rude "go do it yourself" sense). The very short version is that Trump's lawyers have been trying to convince Mueller's team Trump didn't obstruct justice and that Comey is an unreliable witness, and if you're playing defense like that, it's really not a good sign for you.
In general, the WSJ paywall can be bypassed by searching for the article's headline on twitter and following a link to the story from a tweet. The web: it's so user-friendly!
posted by zachlipton at 1:43 PM on August 31, 2017 [9 favorites]
Taylor Swift’s ‘Look What You Made Me Do’ Is the First Pure Piece of Trump-Era Pop Art
I can't put my finger on it, but I thought of Leni Riefenstahl and Charlottesville watching her new video.
posted by Bee'sWing at 1:46 PM on August 31, 2017 [13 favorites]
I can't put my finger on it, but I thought of Leni Riefenstahl and Charlottesville watching her new video.
posted by Bee'sWing at 1:46 PM on August 31, 2017 [13 favorites]
Mueller's investigation was really tight-lipped until the past week or so. Do we think this is because more people are getting involved, or more of the administration's leaking staff are getting involved? Or maybe the Mueller leaks are strategic? It's strange to hear nothing for months and now drips are coming out daily.
posted by gladly at 1:57 PM on August 31, 2017
posted by gladly at 1:57 PM on August 31, 2017
Taylor Swift, who pointedly refused to use her absolutely massive platform with millennials to condemn or endorse during the actual campaign, is the perfect avatar of "lol nothing matters".
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:58 PM on August 31, 2017 [45 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:58 PM on August 31, 2017 [45 favorites]
It's not really "leaks" from Mueller, it's subpoenas and other people talking about being the subject of negotiations/targets. I haven't seen anything that actually looks like it came from the Special Prosecutor though anything but formal legal channels. The investigation is investigating, not leaking.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:01 PM on August 31, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:01 PM on August 31, 2017 [12 favorites]
melissasaurus at 4:31 PM: [twitter thread, condensed]
Thank you thank you thank you. I'm in love.
If only condensing Twitter threads into plain text could become a thing. Why, we could create a longer form of writing, regularly updated - call it a "web log entry", say - and just link to the text on Twitter... (Yeah, and also get off my lawn you kids.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:04 PM on August 31, 2017 [22 favorites]
Thank you thank you thank you. I'm in love.
If only condensing Twitter threads into plain text could become a thing. Why, we could create a longer form of writing, regularly updated - call it a "web log entry", say - and just link to the text on Twitter... (Yeah, and also get off my lawn you kids.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:04 PM on August 31, 2017 [22 favorites]
Spiders have cornered the market on weblogs.
posted by guiseroom at 2:15 PM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by guiseroom at 2:15 PM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
CNN: Trump Energy official who said controversial comments were result of hacking resigns. That's William C. Bradford, who was appointed to run the Energy Department's Office of Indian Energy and who previously appeared to have made comments online questioning "Obama's birth certificate and call[ing] the former president's mother 'a fourth-rate p&*n actress and w@!re.'" He claimed his account was hacked. This follows awful things he's admitted saying on Twitter and as a professor at West Point.
posted by zachlipton at 2:16 PM on August 31, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 2:16 PM on August 31, 2017 [32 favorites]
Clarke already rescinded his acceptance of a DHS post, fwiw. Though he could change his mind and the timing is awfully suspicious what with the timing of Trump's tweet promoting his book.
posted by AFABulous at 2:17 PM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by AFABulous at 2:17 PM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm tired of feeling like angry Willow every single day. Every single day I have some fantasy involving Trump and his enablers that contains the phrase, "I. Owe. You. PAIN." And then here comes the bag of knives.
posted by angrycat at 2:22 PM on August 31, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 2:22 PM on August 31, 2017 [30 favorites]
Blow's gonna have to come up with more compelling evidence than "this would be best for him" to convince me Trump is enacting any plan with more than 2 steps and a time horizon past a week.
True, Trump doesn't have the capacity for strategic thinking, or long-term thinking of any kind, for that matter. What he does is react, act out, test limits, and push boundaries, in what amounts to a toddler's algorithm for tactics. Once he finds something that works, though, he presses ahead relentlessly in that direction. This may seem like self-interested planning from outside, but it's more like a Chinese Room for producing the most terrible behavior in the situation at hand.
With that in mind, Blow's op ed at once zeroes in on an entirely viable worst-case scenario for Trump's end game yet misunderstands, or at least overestimates, how Trump would get there. What matters, of course, is doing everything we can to make sure he doesn't.
posted by Doktor Zed at 2:24 PM on August 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
True, Trump doesn't have the capacity for strategic thinking, or long-term thinking of any kind, for that matter. What he does is react, act out, test limits, and push boundaries, in what amounts to a toddler's algorithm for tactics. Once he finds something that works, though, he presses ahead relentlessly in that direction. This may seem like self-interested planning from outside, but it's more like a Chinese Room for producing the most terrible behavior in the situation at hand.
With that in mind, Blow's op ed at once zeroes in on an entirely viable worst-case scenario for Trump's end game yet misunderstands, or at least overestimates, how Trump would get there. What matters, of course, is doing everything we can to make sure he doesn't.
posted by Doktor Zed at 2:24 PM on August 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
>>Trump Attorneys Lay Out Arguments Against Obstruction-of-Justice Probe to Mueller
> Benjamin Wittes has this as a Boom! so I'm hoping someone here can explain the boominess to me; my mind is shot.
This move is the legal equivalent of "OK, baby, I know what this looks like, but you gotta believe me..."
posted by Capt. Renault at 2:26 PM on August 31, 2017 [15 favorites]
> Benjamin Wittes has this as a Boom! so I'm hoping someone here can explain the boominess to me; my mind is shot.
This move is the legal equivalent of "OK, baby, I know what this looks like, but you gotta believe me..."
posted by Capt. Renault at 2:26 PM on August 31, 2017 [15 favorites]
Heh, from that story about Jared Kushner's financial woes:
posted by jackbishop at 2:29 PM on August 31, 2017 [12 favorites]
Jared Kushner, Donald Trump's son-in-law and top adviser, wakes up each morning to a growing problem that will not go away.Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll empower my father-in-law to help me." Now they have two problems.
posted by jackbishop at 2:29 PM on August 31, 2017 [12 favorites]
tonycpsu: File under "elections have consequences": Town Investigated by Obama Justice Department Brings "Walking While Black" Charges
And it just keeps going, with an illegal curfew for those who aren't in (read: can't afford or are unable to operate) a car, and a ban on saggy pants.
FUCK THIS NOISE. On top of the ugly, awful racism, inflicting poor people with legal costs for walking in public, this is further shoving us along the path started with the invention of jaywalking.
When lacking sidewalks, the streets are explicitly for everyone. If the city doesn't have money to install and maintain street lights, install highly reflective signs alerting drivers that pedestrians may be in the roadway due to a lack of other facilities.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:42 PM on August 31, 2017 [77 favorites]
“The cost of this is $200 for the fine and $209 for court costs!” said Rufus Searile who lives in Ville Platte. He says the city places a burden on residents, forcing them to buy reflective gear; instead, he says city officials aren’t doing their jobs. “It should be there responsibility to put sidewalks, to put more lighting.”
...
But civil-rights activists in Louisiana say that improper detentions are only part of a broader problem in Ville Platte, a city in which they say residents are cited for frivolous violations, excessively fined and put in jail when they cannot pay.
It’s a system that on its face appears similar to some of what Justice Department officials found in Ferguson, Mo., where the police department, at the behest of the city, regularly ticketed mostly African-American residents for violations like “manner of walking in roadway,” and then funneled that money into the city coffers. Those who couldn’t pay were sent to jail.
And it just keeps going, with an illegal curfew for those who aren't in (read: can't afford or are unable to operate) a car, and a ban on saggy pants.
FUCK THIS NOISE. On top of the ugly, awful racism, inflicting poor people with legal costs for walking in public, this is further shoving us along the path started with the invention of jaywalking.
When lacking sidewalks, the streets are explicitly for everyone. If the city doesn't have money to install and maintain street lights, install highly reflective signs alerting drivers that pedestrians may be in the roadway due to a lack of other facilities.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:42 PM on August 31, 2017 [77 favorites]
If You Have Spotted A Republican You Think Cares About the Deficit, You Are The Sucker
Donald Trump’s populist economic policies are finally taking the Republican Party away from the Reagan paradigm: [...]posted by tonycpsu at 2:44 PM on August 31, 2017 [26 favorites]
A Republican offering a massive, debt-funded upper-class tax cut — who could have seen that coming? Not reporters at the nation’s leading newspaper, apparently:In laying out what he called his principles for a tax overhaul, Mr. Trump made no mention of insisting that cuts be offset by corresponding increases to avoid adding to the deficit, essentially acknowledging publicly what his aides have privately for weeks: that he is willing to accept a plan that adds to the deficit, which had long been considered anathema to many conservative Republicans.Yes, conservative Republicans have long been against tax cuts without offsetting spending cuts [...]
To be Scrupulously Fair, GREEN-EYESHADED DEFICIT HAWK Paul Ryan did not approve of Bush’s fiscal agenda — he thought the tax cuts and defense spending increases should have been larger. It’s amazing how long Republicans have been able to keep their “we care deeply about the deficit” shell game running.
Tom Prigg, who plans to run against Keith Rothfus, is doing an AMA on reddit.
posted by christopherious at 2:54 PM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by christopherious at 2:54 PM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
A fun thought I've had since Charlottesville: every hate-mongering, racist, homophobic, xenophobic, deplorable individual spotlit as such, or who quits because their deplorable words are found online and highlighted for broader focus, is then adding to their internet legacy, making it that much harder to get another job, go on a date, and generally make friends who aren't also deplorable.
Hopefully this starts to make people think twice before shit-posting on Facebook, Reddit, YouTube, or any other publicly searchable forum. Hell, don't email those thoughts, because once written and sent, you can never count on that email ever really disappearing. Which in turn will start to shift the tone of conversations towards the more positive. I know it'll be a slow crawl, what with the noxious pit of vile that are most public forums now, but every new report of someone who quits, resigns, gets fired or otherwise is forced to change their life in a significant enough way as to be covered in even the smallest of local news story adds to the broader message "this is not OK." Trump's election opened the spigot for hate, filth, and violence, but I feel it's going to help in the mid-term, assuming we survive the short-term.
And I don't think there'll be some pendulum swing where all their noxious shit is considered OK by any stretch of the imagination, as some people fear. If they aren't finding solace and support at this point, I'm not sure things will get more comfortable for fascists and deplorables in the future.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:55 PM on August 31, 2017 [12 favorites]
Hopefully this starts to make people think twice before shit-posting on Facebook, Reddit, YouTube, or any other publicly searchable forum. Hell, don't email those thoughts, because once written and sent, you can never count on that email ever really disappearing. Which in turn will start to shift the tone of conversations towards the more positive. I know it'll be a slow crawl, what with the noxious pit of vile that are most public forums now, but every new report of someone who quits, resigns, gets fired or otherwise is forced to change their life in a significant enough way as to be covered in even the smallest of local news story adds to the broader message "this is not OK." Trump's election opened the spigot for hate, filth, and violence, but I feel it's going to help in the mid-term, assuming we survive the short-term.
And I don't think there'll be some pendulum swing where all their noxious shit is considered OK by any stretch of the imagination, as some people fear. If they aren't finding solace and support at this point, I'm not sure things will get more comfortable for fascists and deplorables in the future.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:55 PM on August 31, 2017 [12 favorites]
Man, that WSJ article: "Lawyers for Donald Trump ... calling into question Mr. Comey’s reliability as a potential witness, people familiar with the matter said."
I can just hear Mueller's retort: "Fair enough, we have one Jefferson Sessions, is he okay? No? How about Rod Rosenstein, yes? How about a couple million twitter followers? We have plenty of direct witnesses to most of it, I'm sure we can dig up one or two you'll find reliable."
posted by klarck at 2:56 PM on August 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
I can just hear Mueller's retort: "Fair enough, we have one Jefferson Sessions, is he okay? No? How about Rod Rosenstein, yes? How about a couple million twitter followers? We have plenty of direct witnesses to most of it, I'm sure we can dig up one or two you'll find reliable."
posted by klarck at 2:56 PM on August 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
Trump says he'll give $1 million to something or somebody sometime Harvey something something
Sanders said the president has not settled on specific charities and wants to solicit advice from the media.
“He’s actually asked that I check with the folks in this room since you are very good at research and have been doing a lot of reporting into the groups and organizations that are best and most effective in helping and providing aid,” she said. “He’d like some suggestions from the folks here, and I’d be happy to take those if any of you have them.”
/deadpan
posted by petebest at 3:08 PM on August 31, 2017 [14 favorites]
Sanders said the president has not settled on specific charities and wants to solicit advice from the media.
“He’s actually asked that I check with the folks in this room since you are very good at research and have been doing a lot of reporting into the groups and organizations that are best and most effective in helping and providing aid,” she said. “He’d like some suggestions from the folks here, and I’d be happy to take those if any of you have them.”
/deadpan
posted by petebest at 3:08 PM on August 31, 2017 [14 favorites]
Corey Robin:
Steve Bannon is reputed to be a political strategist who thinks in terms of tomorrow, not today. If that's the case, he must sense that he's in a real race against time. Every sign suggests that the electorate of tomorrow will be more and more hostile to Trumpism while the portion of the electorate that is most favorable to Trumpism will not be with us for that much longer. I can see the argument for focusing on older voters in the next election cycle. But Bannon, at least according to Sebastian Gorka, doesn't think in months and years. He thinks in decades. The decades aren't looking good for his brand of politics.posted by Joseph Gurl at 3:10 PM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
The sooner the indictments start, and the subsequent freak-out and final chapter begins, the sooner it'll be over and we can work on healing.
posted by mikelieman at 3:11 PM on August 31, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by mikelieman at 3:11 PM on August 31, 2017 [13 favorites]
> Tom Prigg, who plans to run against Keith Rothfus, is doing an AMA on reddit.
Thank you so much for posting this, as Rothfus is, sadly, my rep. Good answers on healthcare, immigration, Afghanistan, and labor unions, among other issues. Not-horrible-for-Pennsyltucky answer on guns. He didn't even fuck up the question about antifa. I don't know how well he's funded or how much of a chance he has, but I will definitely be keeping an eye on him as we head toward the primaries.
posted by tonycpsu at 3:11 PM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
Thank you so much for posting this, as Rothfus is, sadly, my rep. Good answers on healthcare, immigration, Afghanistan, and labor unions, among other issues. Not-horrible-for-Pennsyltucky answer on guns. He didn't even fuck up the question about antifa. I don't know how well he's funded or how much of a chance he has, but I will definitely be keeping an eye on him as we head toward the primaries.
posted by tonycpsu at 3:11 PM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
I would never send your best friend unsolicited dick pics! It was my tulpa's dick, see.
You know, if you'd told me ten years ago that some day the phrase "unsolicited tulpa dick pics" would make perfect sense to me...
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 3:16 PM on August 31, 2017 [13 favorites]
You know, if you'd told me ten years ago that some day the phrase "unsolicited tulpa dick pics" would make perfect sense to me...
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 3:16 PM on August 31, 2017 [13 favorites]
Trump says he'll give $1 million to something or somebody sometime Harvey something something
Why do I get the feeling Harvey Fierstein is about to become a wealthy man?
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:16 PM on August 31, 2017 [9 favorites]
Why do I get the feeling Harvey Fierstein is about to become a wealthy man?
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:16 PM on August 31, 2017 [9 favorites]
Steve Bannon is reputed to be a political strategist
citation needed
posted by phearlez at 3:20 PM on August 31, 2017 [14 favorites]
citation needed
posted by phearlez at 3:20 PM on August 31, 2017 [14 favorites]
NBC: Manafort Notes From Russian Meet Contain Cryptic Reference to ‘Donations’
@rgoodlaw
A gem in NBC piece: Paul Manafort's notes "typed on a smart phone". Don Jr used PM being on his phone to suggest meeting was insignificant 1/
- Transcript with Don Jr. trying to use Manafort being on his phone "pretty much" the whole time to show meeting was "a wasted 20 minutes" 2/3 [transcript]
- But if PM was on his phone to take notes that's incriminating: 1. suggests meeting was significant 2. shows Don Jr trying to mislead 3/3
posted by chris24 at 3:27 PM on August 31, 2017 [51 favorites]
@rgoodlaw
A gem in NBC piece: Paul Manafort's notes "typed on a smart phone". Don Jr used PM being on his phone to suggest meeting was insignificant 1/
- Transcript with Don Jr. trying to use Manafort being on his phone "pretty much" the whole time to show meeting was "a wasted 20 minutes" 2/3 [transcript]
- But if PM was on his phone to take notes that's incriminating: 1. suggests meeting was significant 2. shows Don Jr trying to mislead 3/3
posted by chris24 at 3:27 PM on August 31, 2017 [51 favorites]
Did you know today was Sean Spicer's last day at the White House? It feels like he resigned 11 billion years ago.
posted by zachlipton at 3:28 PM on August 31, 2017 [40 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 3:28 PM on August 31, 2017 [40 favorites]
Outgoing sheriff Clarke expected to take job in Trump administration
posted by guiseroom at 3:40 PM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by guiseroom at 3:40 PM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
I called it weeks ago: Secretary of Flair.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:53 PM on August 31, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 3:53 PM on August 31, 2017 [13 favorites]
So I have a really important question: did the White House research team (lol that that's a thing) ever get their stolen fridge back now that Spicer is gone?
posted by zachlipton at 4:00 PM on August 31, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 4:00 PM on August 31, 2017 [16 favorites]
A fun thought I've had since Charlottesville: every hate-mongering, racist, homophobic, xenophobic, deplorable individual spotlit as such, or who quits because their deplorable words are found online and highlighted for broader focus, is then adding to their internet legacy, making it that much harder to get another job, go on a date, and generally make friends who aren't also deplorable.
Hopefully this starts to make people think twice before shit-posting on Facebook, Reddit, YouTube, or any other publicly searchable forum. Hell, don't email those thoughts, because once written and sent, you can never count on that email ever really disappearing. Which in turn will start to shift the tone of conversations towards the more positive. I know it'll be a slow crawl, what with the noxious pit of vile that are most public forums now, but every new report of someone who quits, resigns, gets fired or otherwise is forced to change their life in a significant enough way as to be covered in even the smallest of local news story adds to the broader message "this is not OK." Trump's election opened the spigot for hate, filth, and violence, but I feel it's going to help in the mid-term, assuming we survive the short-term.
And I don't think there'll be some pendulum swing where all their noxious shit is considered OK by any stretch of the imagination, as some people fear. If they aren't finding solace and support at this point, I'm not sure things will get more comfortable for fascists and deplorables in the future.
I hate to tell you this but look at the current republican party. Right wingers never suffer any long term follow on consequences for their bad behavior, some even get resurrected after being convicted and doing time. This has been going on probably since forever but I know actual details from Nixon onward. The right quite strongly believes in re-use with regards to their baddies regardless of how bad.
If anything the deplorables have been steadily climbing the ladder in my lifetime.
posted by srboisvert at 4:05 PM on August 31, 2017 [26 favorites]
Hopefully this starts to make people think twice before shit-posting on Facebook, Reddit, YouTube, or any other publicly searchable forum. Hell, don't email those thoughts, because once written and sent, you can never count on that email ever really disappearing. Which in turn will start to shift the tone of conversations towards the more positive. I know it'll be a slow crawl, what with the noxious pit of vile that are most public forums now, but every new report of someone who quits, resigns, gets fired or otherwise is forced to change their life in a significant enough way as to be covered in even the smallest of local news story adds to the broader message "this is not OK." Trump's election opened the spigot for hate, filth, and violence, but I feel it's going to help in the mid-term, assuming we survive the short-term.
And I don't think there'll be some pendulum swing where all their noxious shit is considered OK by any stretch of the imagination, as some people fear. If they aren't finding solace and support at this point, I'm not sure things will get more comfortable for fascists and deplorables in the future.
I hate to tell you this but look at the current republican party. Right wingers never suffer any long term follow on consequences for their bad behavior, some even get resurrected after being convicted and doing time. This has been going on probably since forever but I know actual details from Nixon onward. The right quite strongly believes in re-use with regards to their baddies regardless of how bad.
If anything the deplorables have been steadily climbing the ladder in my lifetime.
posted by srboisvert at 4:05 PM on August 31, 2017 [26 favorites]
For anyone still wondering why North Korea is so vigorously pursuing nukes:
A troubling lesson from Libya: Don't give up nukes (Reza Sanati,
Christian Science Monitor, August 30 2011)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:06 PM on August 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
A troubling lesson from Libya: Don't give up nukes (Reza Sanati,
Christian Science Monitor, August 30 2011)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:06 PM on August 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
Right wingers never suffer any long term follow on consequences for their bad behavior, some even get resurrected after being convicted and doing time.
Only the ones in the ruling class. The rank-and-file get fucked.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:07 PM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
Only the ones in the ruling class. The rank-and-file get fucked.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:07 PM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
Rep. Coffman (R-CO), says he will circulate a discharge petition for the BRIDGE Act when Congress returns. The BRIDGE Act isn't wonderful—it would essentially be a Congressionally-passed version of DACA that only lasted for three years,—but a bipartisian push for it would be amazing. If you're represented by Republicans, this would be an excellent thing to call them about tomorrow.
posted by zachlipton at 4:08 PM on August 31, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 4:08 PM on August 31, 2017 [17 favorites]
One thing I think this administration's made clear is that there is no defense for "moderate Republicans." No "well I didn't vote for *Trump*" -- just for the other people enabling him to run a government and making no effort to oppose him whatsoever. Once he's finally out, it should not be acceptable to go back to voting for "normal" Republicans. They're all just as evil, and I hope no one forgets that again. Especially anyone who is anti-Trump but still calls themself a Republican. You don't get to escape social consequences.
posted by Cheerwell Maker at 4:08 PM on August 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Cheerwell Maker at 4:08 PM on August 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
Betsy Woodruff reports that Mueller is working with the IRS Criminal Investigations unit. Trump has not bothered to appoint an Assistant Attorney General for the Tax Division (so the office is being held by a career person), which is the office that would normally have to approve a prosecution for tax-related violations.
posted by zachlipton at 4:16 PM on August 31, 2017 [53 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 4:16 PM on August 31, 2017 [53 favorites]
Matt Bors on the origins of Sheriff Clarke's flair.
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 4:16 PM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 4:16 PM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
did the White House research team ever get their stolen fridge back now that Spicer is gone?
In case anyone else is wondering what this is referring to.
posted by Coventry at 4:17 PM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
In case anyone else is wondering what this is referring to.
posted by Coventry at 4:17 PM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
Right wingers never suffer any long term follow on consequences for their bad behavior, some even get resurrected after being convicted and doing time.
— Only the ones in the ruling class. The rank-and-file get fucked.
And then blame it on the Democrats.
♪♫♬ The ci-i-i-rcle of life ♪♫♬
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:20 PM on August 31, 2017 [14 favorites]
— Only the ones in the ruling class. The rank-and-file get fucked.
And then blame it on the Democrats.
♪♫♬ The ci-i-i-rcle of life ♪♫♬
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:20 PM on August 31, 2017 [14 favorites]
The latest conspiracy theory, because why not? "Freemasons And Illuminati Are Using A Special Frequency To Change DNA And Make People Hate Trump"
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:35 PM on August 31, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:35 PM on August 31, 2017 [10 favorites]
There's word around that Clarke might be headed to ICE.
posted by Talez at 4:42 PM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Talez at 4:42 PM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
They'll love him.
posted by Artw at 4:46 PM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 4:46 PM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
And he'll love them.
Truly a match made in Hell.
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:48 PM on August 31, 2017 [9 favorites]
Truly a match made in Hell.
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:48 PM on August 31, 2017 [9 favorites]
The latest conspiracy theory, because why not? "Freemasons And Illuminati Are Using A Special Frequency To Change DNA And Make People Hate Trump"
A?
posted by mbo at 4:50 PM on August 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
A?
posted by mbo at 4:50 PM on August 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
The latest conspiracy theory, because why not? "Freemasons And Illuminati Are Using A Special Frequency To Change DNA And Make People Hate Trump"
From the article:
I can't think of anything. Must be DNA control.
(hint: the answer is in the question)
posted by triggerfinger at 5:00 PM on August 31, 2017 [11 favorites]
From the article:
Taylor claimed that he is getting “bombarded with emails” from Christians who are being isolated by their friends and families because of their support for Trump and that is “because their DNA is being controlled by the enemy.”Let me think, could there possibly be any other reason why people are being isolated by their loved ones because of their support for Trump? Even one?
I can't think of anything. Must be DNA control.
(hint: the answer is in the question)
posted by triggerfinger at 5:00 PM on August 31, 2017 [11 favorites]
For some reason I am very bothered by the use of "frequency" instead of "wavelength" there even though functionally it doesn't matter.
posted by Justinian at 5:01 PM on August 31, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 5:01 PM on August 31, 2017 [9 favorites]
Right wingers never suffer any long term follow on consequences for their bad behavior, some even get resurrected after being convicted and doing time.
Convicted felon Oliver North is Trump's follow-up act in Springfield, Missouri tonight.
He was indicted on 16 felony counts, and on May 4, 1989, he was initially convicted of three: accepting an illegal gratuity, aiding and abetting in the obstruction of a congressional inquiry, and ordering the destruction of documents through his secretary, Fawn Hall. He was sentenced by U.S. District Judge Gerhard Gesell on July 5, 1989 to a three-year suspended prison term, two years probation, $150,000 in fines, and 1,200 hours of community service. North performed some of his community service within Potomac Gardens, a public housing project in southeast Washington, D.C.One year suspended sentence per felony! And his case was thrown out IOKIYAR-style:
As North had been granted limited immunity for his congressional testimony, the law prohibited a prosecutor from using that testimony as part of a criminal case against him. To prepare for the expected defense challenge that North's testimony had been used, the prosecution team had—before North's congressional testimony had been given—listed and isolated all of its evidence. Further, the individual members of the prosecution team had isolated themselves from news reports and discussion of North's testimony. While the defense could show no specific instance in which North's congressional testimony was used in his trial, the Court of Appeals ruled that the trial judge had made an insufficient examination of the issue. Consequently, North's convictions were reversed.posted by kirkaracha at 5:04 PM on August 31, 2017 [15 favorites]
"Freemasons And Illuminati Are Using A Special Frequency To Change DNA And Make People Hate Trump"
"i've got an uncontrollable urge ..."
posted by pyramid termite at 5:21 PM on August 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
"i've got an uncontrollable urge ..."
posted by pyramid termite at 5:21 PM on August 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
Trump Energy official who said controversial comments were result of hacking resigns. That's William C. Bradford, who was appointed to run the Energy Department's Office of Indian Energy
Ah, yes...it was time for another weekly purge, wasn't it? Bradford's on the B team, but still, it's nice to see they're doing what they can to keep the ratings up.
posted by darkstar at 5:22 PM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
Ah, yes...it was time for another weekly purge, wasn't it? Bradford's on the B team, but still, it's nice to see they're doing what they can to keep the ratings up.
posted by darkstar at 5:22 PM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
The Cobb County Police Chief just announced they are going to fire the officer who was recorded telling a white woman he pulled over that she could calm down because police only kill Black people.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:23 PM on August 31, 2017 [62 favorites]
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:23 PM on August 31, 2017 [62 favorites]
COMPLETELY unexpected result, I must honestly confess.
posted by darkstar at 5:27 PM on August 31, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by darkstar at 5:27 PM on August 31, 2017 [14 favorites]
Finding the white supremacists who beat a black man in Charlottesville (WaPo)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:27 PM on August 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:27 PM on August 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
Illuminati #99
Whoa, low user number!
I'm #42069
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:30 PM on August 31, 2017 [14 favorites]
Whoa, low user number!
I'm #42069
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:30 PM on August 31, 2017 [14 favorites]
Merritt said the FBI questioned them about why Harris had kept the GoFundMe page active even though he'd reached his goal.
Ugh.
posted by Yowser at 5:30 PM on August 31, 2017
Ugh.
posted by Yowser at 5:30 PM on August 31, 2017
Merritt said the FBI questioned them about why Harris had kept the GoFundMe page active even though he'd reached his goal.
Surely that's not illegal, is it? As long as it's clearly shown on the GoFundMe page that the donations have exceeded the goal, it's not like there's fraud, right?
Otherwise, most of the successful GoFundMe fundraisers would be in violation. Any lawfolk able to weigh in?
posted by darkstar at 5:37 PM on August 31, 2017
Surely that's not illegal, is it? As long as it's clearly shown on the GoFundMe page that the donations have exceeded the goal, it's not like there's fraud, right?
Otherwise, most of the successful GoFundMe fundraisers would be in violation. Any lawfolk able to weigh in?
posted by darkstar at 5:37 PM on August 31, 2017
Skinhead documentary films appear to feature interim Colbert police chief
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:41 PM on August 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:41 PM on August 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
"RZA is my favorite" is the boring answer, but it's boring because it's the most likely to be true.
The correct Republican answer to the question "Who is your favorite member of Wu-Tang Clan" is "Martin Shkreli."
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:42 PM on August 31, 2017 [27 favorites]
The correct Republican answer to the question "Who is your favorite member of Wu-Tang Clan" is "Martin Shkreli."
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:42 PM on August 31, 2017 [27 favorites]
I really want to believe the splits between Trump and Congress over the last couple of months will motivate Senate Republicans to block Clarke from any job requiring their approval, particularly any cabinet posts (Homeland Security) or agencies (ICE). They see how most of his other nominations have turned out to be shit. They see how Trump is actively hurting their brand going forward. They see how he acted during and after the healthcare debacle.
Clarke is a fucking clown. I mean even his masters thesis has been exposed for plagiarism. They would have ample justification to shoot down any nomination he might get and to tell Trump, "Send us someone serious."
But it's 2017 and everything is stupid so I can't throw down even a single dime betting on Republicans making the worst possible choice at any given moment.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:47 PM on August 31, 2017 [9 favorites]
Clarke is a fucking clown. I mean even his masters thesis has been exposed for plagiarism. They would have ample justification to shoot down any nomination he might get and to tell Trump, "Send us someone serious."
But it's 2017 and everything is stupid so I can't throw down even a single dime betting on Republicans making the worst possible choice at any given moment.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:47 PM on August 31, 2017 [9 favorites]
You can read it yourself here (which I mean in the nicest of paywall bypassing ways, not in a rude "go do it yourself" sense). The very short version is that Trump's lawyers have been trying to convince Mueller's team Trump didn't obstruct justice and that Comey is an unreliable witness, and if you're playing defense like that, it's really not a good sign for you.
In general, the WSJ paywall can be bypassed by searching for the article's headline on twitter and following a link to the story from a tweet.
Thank you. I actually had done that, and came up with the same archive.is link you had, but both times I only got this error message. Perhaps Comcast Internet blocks it?
In general, the WSJ paywall can be bypassed by searching for the article's headline on twitter and following a link to the story from a tweet.
Thank you. I actually had done that, and came up with the same archive.is link you had, but both times I only got this error message. Perhaps Comcast Internet blocks it?
Error 502 Ray ID: 39743529d2b38d05 • 2017-09-01 00:45:35 UTCposted by msalt at 5:56 PM on August 31, 2017
Bad gateway
You: Browser Working
Hillsboro: Cloudflare Working
archive.is Host Error
Clarke is a fucking clown.
Indeed. And like IT, responsible for several deaths, in horrific conditions, too.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 6:10 PM on August 31, 2017 [10 favorites]
Indeed. And like IT, responsible for several deaths, in horrific conditions, too.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 6:10 PM on August 31, 2017 [10 favorites]
Freemasons And Illuminati Are Using A Special Frequency To Change DNA And Make People Hate Trump.
That's why they're called the Illumi-naughty and not the Illumi-nice.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:13 PM on August 31, 2017 [67 favorites]
That's why they're called the Illumi-naughty and not the Illumi-nice.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:13 PM on August 31, 2017 [67 favorites]
Damn you! take my favorite.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 6:15 PM on August 31, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 6:15 PM on August 31, 2017 [8 favorites]
They see how most of his other nominations have turned out to be shit.
His nominations have been shit, but mainly because of how much they're everything the GOP wants in these positions. Whether they're grafting or tearing down environmental protections or just plain fucking up to give people less faith in the federal government, they're probably one of the few things that the GOP genuinely wants to keep Trump around for.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:17 PM on August 31, 2017 [6 favorites]
His nominations have been shit, but mainly because of how much they're everything the GOP wants in these positions. Whether they're grafting or tearing down environmental protections or just plain fucking up to give people less faith in the federal government, they're probably one of the few things that the GOP genuinely wants to keep Trump around for.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:17 PM on August 31, 2017 [6 favorites]
One of the comments from the 'Step aside, Antifa' article linked upthread.
If in the beginning, when the Hitler bands were still weak, the workers’ parties had answered them blow for blow, there is no doubt their development would have been hampered. On this point we have the testimony of the National Socialist leaders themselves.
Hitler confessed in retrospect: Only one thing could have broken our movement – if the adversary had understood its principle and from the first day had smashed, with the most extreme brutality, the nucleus of our new movement.”
And Goebbels: “If the enemy had known how weak we were, it would probably have reduced us to jelly…. It would have crushed in blood the very beginning of our work.”
Guerin citing Hitler and Goebbels.
posted by adamvasco at 6:25 PM on August 31, 2017 [38 favorites]
If in the beginning, when the Hitler bands were still weak, the workers’ parties had answered them blow for blow, there is no doubt their development would have been hampered. On this point we have the testimony of the National Socialist leaders themselves.
Hitler confessed in retrospect: Only one thing could have broken our movement – if the adversary had understood its principle and from the first day had smashed, with the most extreme brutality, the nucleus of our new movement.”
And Goebbels: “If the enemy had known how weak we were, it would probably have reduced us to jelly…. It would have crushed in blood the very beginning of our work.”
Guerin citing Hitler and Goebbels.
posted by adamvasco at 6:25 PM on August 31, 2017 [38 favorites]
Marc Thiessen in WaPo with his rather suspicious hot take on the Berkeley rally:Yes, antifa is the moral equivalent of neo-Nazis
Thiessen says the real enemy is Antifa, because some Antifa are communists, and Stalin was a communist, and Stalin killed millions of people. This is a nod to what is called the "double genocide" theory, which is promoted by Eastern European nations that want to justify their collaboration with the Nazis.
You know who's the moral equivalent of neo-Nazis? Neo-Nazis. But comdemning them and their associates would be too easy for a deep thinker like Marc Thiesen. Thiessen takes Antifa's opponents at face value:
I think the left-wing rioters at Berkeley were deplorable, but their bad actions and confused ideology is nothing like as bad as the Literal Nazis that Thiessen is whitewashing. They're the problem, and in trying to shift attention away from them he's becoming their accomplice.
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:38 PM on August 31, 2017 [28 favorites]
Thiessen says the real enemy is Antifa, because some Antifa are communists, and Stalin was a communist, and Stalin killed millions of people. This is a nod to what is called the "double genocide" theory, which is promoted by Eastern European nations that want to justify their collaboration with the Nazis.
You know who's the moral equivalent of neo-Nazis? Neo-Nazis. But comdemning them and their associates would be too easy for a deep thinker like Marc Thiesen. Thiessen takes Antifa's opponents at face value:
The organizer of the anti-Marxism protest is not a white supremacist. Amber Cummings is a self-described “transsexual female who embraces diversity” [...]It didn't take much research to learn that she shared a platform with white supremacists at an earlier rally there, and that she markets sticks and shields for right-wing demonstrators to use.
I think the left-wing rioters at Berkeley were deplorable, but their bad actions and confused ideology is nothing like as bad as the Literal Nazis that Thiessen is whitewashing. They're the problem, and in trying to shift attention away from them he's becoming their accomplice.
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:38 PM on August 31, 2017 [28 favorites]
I think what most offends rightists and the media about Antifa is that they are leftists who are not physical cowards. A lot of these guys have bought into the stereotype that "liberal=pussy", and to have that proven wrong breaks something in their brain.
posted by Captain l'escalier at 6:43 PM on August 31, 2017 [58 favorites]
posted by Captain l'escalier at 6:43 PM on August 31, 2017 [58 favorites]
Communist is such a viable insult in 2017. Maybe pinko and fellow traveler will also make a comeback!
posted by delfin at 6:44 PM on August 31, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by delfin at 6:44 PM on August 31, 2017 [15 favorites]
Nazis can't even turn up to something where there might be a bit of shoving without a hitting stick or stupid cosplay armor or being covered by some nutter with an assault rifle so yeah, physical cowards the lot of them.
And Marc Thiessen is a fucking idiot.
posted by Artw at 6:46 PM on August 31, 2017 [12 favorites]
And Marc Thiessen is a fucking idiot.
posted by Artw at 6:46 PM on August 31, 2017 [12 favorites]
There's a lot in this new Rucker/Parker piece for the Post: During a summer of crisis, Trump chafes against criticism and new controls. I'll give you a taste and you can savor the rest over drinks:
Please also enjoy Sean Spicer screwing up his goodbye party tweet by tagging the wrong Sarah Sanders on Twitter. A fitting farewell.
posted by zachlipton at 6:50 PM on August 31, 2017 [29 favorites]
Behind the scenes during a summer of crisis, however, Trump appears to pine for the days when the Oval Office was a bustling hub of visitors and gossip, over which he presided as impresario. He fumes that he does not get the credit he thinks he deserves from the media or the allegiance from fellow Republican leaders he says he is owed. He boasts about his presidency in superlatives, but confidants privately fret about his suddenly dark moods.Again, I'd start to believe Trump was capable of change if his own staff didn't keep describing him like a toddler. Read on for tales of Trump being mad at Tillerson (to the point of rumors his tenure could soon come to an end) and Cohn, bad camera angles and news reports, and Kelly's efforts to stop random people from spontaneously visiting with appointments. And Trump is reportedly calling up Bannon when Kelly isn't watching.
And some of Trump’s friends fear that the short-tempered president is on an inevitable collision course with White House Chief of Staff John F. Kelly.
Trump chafes at some of the retired Marine Corps general’s moves to restrict access to him since he took the job almost a month ago, said several people close to the president. They run counter to Trump’s love of spontaneity and brashness, prompting some Trump loyalists to derisively dub Kelly “the church lady” because they consider him strict and morally superior.
“He’s having a very hard time,” one friend who spoke with Trump this week said of the president. “He doesn’t like the way the media’s handling him. He doesn’t like how Kelly’s handling him. He’s turning on people that are very close to him.”
Please also enjoy Sean Spicer screwing up his goodbye party tweet by tagging the wrong Sarah Sanders on Twitter. A fitting farewell.
posted by zachlipton at 6:50 PM on August 31, 2017 [29 favorites]
rhizome: "Not only that, but US currency is among the easiest to counterfeit, and has been for generations."
Geez can you imagine the head asploding if they actually went with something hard to counterfeit like Canada's plastic money (while getting rid of the expensively useless paper $1).
posted by Mitheral at 6:51 PM on August 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
Geez can you imagine the head asploding if they actually went with something hard to counterfeit like Canada's plastic money (while getting rid of the expensively useless paper $1).
posted by Mitheral at 6:51 PM on August 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
> One of the comments from the 'Step aside, Antifa' article linked upthread.
Snopes classifies this as "mostly true." "So the quote is accurate but incomplete. While Hitler said that the rise of the Nazi party could have been stopped by “smashing the nucleus” on day one, he also noted that resistance from the opposition helped strengthen his movement. The abbreviated version of this quote was first popularized in 1978 when it appeared in David Edgar’s play Destiny. "
posted by christopherious at 6:52 PM on August 31, 2017 [9 favorites]
Snopes classifies this as "mostly true." "So the quote is accurate but incomplete. While Hitler said that the rise of the Nazi party could have been stopped by “smashing the nucleus” on day one, he also noted that resistance from the opposition helped strengthen his movement. The abbreviated version of this quote was first popularized in 1978 when it appeared in David Edgar’s play Destiny. "
posted by christopherious at 6:52 PM on August 31, 2017 [9 favorites]
I think it's probably pretty easy to feel morally superior to Antifa if you're not getting your head beat in by a neo-nazi
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:55 PM on August 31, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:55 PM on August 31, 2017 [18 favorites]
Communist is such a viable insult in 2017
.. out here in Hicksville, IA, they still use "hippie" as a disparaging term.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:57 PM on August 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
.. out here in Hicksville, IA, they still use "hippie" as a disparaging term.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:57 PM on August 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
Stalin did kill millions of people, though, at least as many as Hitler. Americans just have a harder time accepting that, because we were allied with Stalin during WWII and it complicates the narrative.
Socialism itself was not the problem with Stalin's regime. Authoritarianism was. But there is nothing about socialism that inoculated against authoritarianism, either.
Left wing ideology can be exploited by a strongman as easily as rightwing ideology. Only a healthy democracy can keep things in balance.
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:59 PM on August 31, 2017 [23 favorites]
Socialism itself was not the problem with Stalin's regime. Authoritarianism was. But there is nothing about socialism that inoculated against authoritarianism, either.
Left wing ideology can be exploited by a strongman as easily as rightwing ideology. Only a healthy democracy can keep things in balance.
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:59 PM on August 31, 2017 [23 favorites]
/Notes that the primary evidence for the antics-is-bad-now case appears to be them menacing a dude in stupid ass cosplay armour who was most assuredly there to start some trouble himself.
posted by Artw at 6:59 PM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:59 PM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
We're talking about literally Nazis chanting shit about exterminating Jews versus people who "might" be "communists", in some way that does not include chanting support for any exterminations. The comparison is fucking stupid and probably in its own way low key antisemitic.
posted by Artw at 7:02 PM on August 31, 2017 [77 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:02 PM on August 31, 2017 [77 favorites]
(And while anarchism and authoritarianism sound like opposites, in practice "anarchy" nearly always leads to power vacuums which are filled by strongmen, who satisfy people's hunger for stability. I am at a loss to think of a single historical counter example. Anyone else got one?)
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:03 PM on August 31, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:03 PM on August 31, 2017 [6 favorites]
Find one for democracy or capitalism first.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:04 PM on August 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:04 PM on August 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
I think it was more or less invented from whole cloth, by some 19th century tent revival preachers. I'm sure believers have twisted up some kind of Biblical support, but it does indeed sound like, uh, fake theology.
You've pretty much summed up all of contemporary American evangelicalism right there.
I realise I'm a little late to the thread with this, but why stop at contemporary American evangelicism?
We're talking about a religion which can't even get it's weekly day of worship right, let alone all the made up holidays with zero biblical basis.
If Jesus ever did come back he wouldn't recognise pretty much anything since the Council of Nicea.
posted by walrus at 7:05 PM on August 31, 2017 [10 favorites]
You've pretty much summed up all of contemporary American evangelicalism right there.
I realise I'm a little late to the thread with this, but why stop at contemporary American evangelicism?
We're talking about a religion which can't even get it's weekly day of worship right, let alone all the made up holidays with zero biblical basis.
If Jesus ever did come back he wouldn't recognise pretty much anything since the Council of Nicea.
posted by walrus at 7:05 PM on August 31, 2017 [10 favorites]
One of the comments from the 'Step aside, Antifa' article linked upthread.
I don't think Hitler was attempting a serious analysis of the early risks to Nazism there, and I'm a bit surprised that people are quoting him seriously, but also, it's worth reading that quote in context:
But if not, and if you take Hitler's words seriously, I think he's saying that punching Nazis leads to stronger Nazis...
posted by Coventry at 7:06 PM on August 31, 2017 [9 favorites]
I don't think Hitler was attempting a serious analysis of the early risks to Nazism there, and I'm a bit surprised that people are quoting him seriously, but also, it's worth reading that quote in context:
Only one danger could have jeopardised this development – if our adversaries had understood its principle, established a clear understanding of our ideas, and not offered any resistance. Or, alternatively, if they had from the first day annihilated with the utmost brutality the nucleus of our new movement.So, if someone wants to smash Trumpism "with the utmost brutality..." well I suppose it makes as much sense as taking out Saddam Hussein by force, but I expect the results will be about the same.
Neither was done. The times were such that our adversaries were no longer capable of accomplishing our annihilation, nor did they have the nerve. Arguably, they furthermore lacked the understanding to assume a wholly appropriate attitude. Instead, they began to tyrannise our young movement by bourgeois means, and, by doing so, they assisted the process of natural selection in a very fortunate manner. From there on, it was only a question of time until the leadership of the nation would fall to our hardened human material. (…)
The more our adversaries believe they can obstruct our development by employing a degree of terror that is characteristic of their nature, the more they encourage it. Nietzsche said that a blow which does not kill a strong man only makes him stronger, and his words are confirmed a thousand times. Every blow strengthens our defiance, every persecution reinforces our single-minded determination, and the elements that do fall are good riddance to the movement.”
But if not, and if you take Hitler's words seriously, I think he's saying that punching Nazis leads to stronger Nazis...
posted by Coventry at 7:06 PM on August 31, 2017 [9 favorites]
Communist is such a viable insult in 2017. Maybe pinko and fellow traveler will also make a comeback!
Mr. Inside-Outski, like some goddamn Bolshevik picking up his orders from Yegg Central.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:07 PM on August 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
Joseph Gurl - Switzerland? Seems like a pretty durable democracy? One of many?
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:13 PM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:13 PM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
If Jesus ever did come back he wouldn't recognise pretty much anything since the Council of Nicea.
Not to be pedantic (on mefi!) but Jesus wasn't a Christian. Christianity is something that was created after his death, so technically he wouldn't recognize ANY of it.
posted by threeturtles at 7:14 PM on August 31, 2017 [25 favorites]
Not to be pedantic (on mefi!) but Jesus wasn't a Christian. Christianity is something that was created after his death, so technically he wouldn't recognize ANY of it.
posted by threeturtles at 7:14 PM on August 31, 2017 [25 favorites]
Not just the White House and other departments in the Trump Administration, but the RNC is also hemmorhaging staffers.
Armstrong is the sixth staffer to leave the RNC in just over a month. That includes a handful of aides in the committee’s data department who left recently amid a change in departmental leadership. The wave of departures, coming less than a year after the 2016 election, has surprised the tight-knit world of Republican operatives.posted by darkstar at 7:15 PM on August 31, 2017 [8 favorites]
Speaking of Nazi garbage:
Some friends who run one a gaming/larping businesses were less than a month away from hosting their annual event, which as a ballpark I'd say draws something in the neighborhood of a thousand attendees from multiple gaming clubs. They just canceled the event yesterday--again, less than a month out, with people making hotel reservations and plane tickets and more--because they discovered the venue for their game(s) had Nazi issues.
Specifically--and it's frustrating, 'cause everything comes out third-hand because nobody wants to get sued--the venue is some sort of nightclub that had people showing up in Nazi cosplay bullshit. That would be ugly enough, but the Nazis apparently weren't just cosplaying. They harassed people. And then the first employees to complain to management about the Nazis were fired.
This all just came to light, so my friends canceled their event out of a concern for people's safety and, y'know, not wanting to do business there if this shit is going on. There are, of course, lots of questions to ask about who knew what when. The venue says they've changed policies and fired people involved, but it's too little, too late. Pretending to be vampires and whatnot is still only pretending, but subjecting their customers to actual fucking Nazis is actually awful.
But I just... I can't really blame businesses for not thinking to ask ahead of time, "Hey, before we sign this contract, what's your policy on Nazis?" Except I guess we all have to ask these things now because it's 2017.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 7:23 PM on August 31, 2017 [44 favorites]
Some friends who run one a gaming/larping businesses were less than a month away from hosting their annual event, which as a ballpark I'd say draws something in the neighborhood of a thousand attendees from multiple gaming clubs. They just canceled the event yesterday--again, less than a month out, with people making hotel reservations and plane tickets and more--because they discovered the venue for their game(s) had Nazi issues.
Specifically--and it's frustrating, 'cause everything comes out third-hand because nobody wants to get sued--the venue is some sort of nightclub that had people showing up in Nazi cosplay bullshit. That would be ugly enough, but the Nazis apparently weren't just cosplaying. They harassed people. And then the first employees to complain to management about the Nazis were fired.
This all just came to light, so my friends canceled their event out of a concern for people's safety and, y'know, not wanting to do business there if this shit is going on. There are, of course, lots of questions to ask about who knew what when. The venue says they've changed policies and fired people involved, but it's too little, too late. Pretending to be vampires and whatnot is still only pretending, but subjecting their customers to actual fucking Nazis is actually awful.
But I just... I can't really blame businesses for not thinking to ask ahead of time, "Hey, before we sign this contract, what's your policy on Nazis?" Except I guess we all have to ask these things now because it's 2017.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 7:23 PM on August 31, 2017 [44 favorites]
Not to be pedantic (on mefi!) but Jesus wasn't a Christian. Christianity is something that was created after his death, so technically he wouldn't recognize ANY of it.
Well, quite.
posted by walrus at 7:25 PM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
Well, quite.
posted by walrus at 7:25 PM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
If Jesus ever did come back he wouldn't recognise pretty much anything since the Council of Nicea.
"If Jesus came back and saw what's going on in his name, he'd never stop throwing up."
posted by kirkaracha at 7:25 PM on August 31, 2017 [9 favorites]
Switzerland?
Just a couple problems...
I didn't say they were without sin. No country is, which is what makes "whataboutism" such an easy and pointless game. I said they had not fallen under strongman rule.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:28 PM on August 31, 2017 [9 favorites]
Just a couple problems...
I didn't say they were without sin. No country is, which is what makes "whataboutism" such an easy and pointless game. I said they had not fallen under strongman rule.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:28 PM on August 31, 2017 [9 favorites]
"Taylor said that the media is broadcasting its audio at 440 Hz, which has been found to 'damage your body organs' and 'also changes your DNA, which is the goal of the Freemasons, the Illuminati; they want you part of that Illuminati bloodline.'"
First they came for the orchestras, and I did not speak out—
because I was not an orchestra.
posted by jocelmeow at 7:31 PM on August 31, 2017 [8 favorites]
First they came for the orchestras, and I did not speak out—
because I was not an orchestra.
posted by jocelmeow at 7:31 PM on August 31, 2017 [8 favorites]
had people showing up in Nazi cosplay bullshit
I don't think you can cosplay Nazi bullshit. If you dress up like a Nazi you're pretty much a Nazi. Or a professional actor. But probably a Nazi.
posted by Justinian at 7:34 PM on August 31, 2017 [27 favorites]
I don't think you can cosplay Nazi bullshit. If you dress up like a Nazi you're pretty much a Nazi. Or a professional actor. But probably a Nazi.
posted by Justinian at 7:34 PM on August 31, 2017 [27 favorites]
Another quote from Hannah and Her Sisters (linked by kirkaracha via IMDB above):
posted by darkstar at 7:39 PM on August 31, 2017 [11 favorites]
Frederick: You missed a very dull TV show on Auschwitz. More gruesome film clips, and more puzzled intellectuals declaring their mystification over the systematic murder of millions. The reason they can never answer the question "How could it possibly happen?" is that it's the wrong question. Given what people are, the question is "Why doesn't it happen more often?"I've been thinking about that as it relates to Trumpism, and trying to understand why people voted for him, or why there are as many evil white supremacists as there are.
posted by darkstar at 7:39 PM on August 31, 2017 [11 favorites]
I forgot, you might also be a young and dumb Prince of Wales and not a Nazi. In which case you really don't do it twice. Once = dumbass. Twice = Nazi.
posted by Justinian at 7:44 PM on August 31, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 7:44 PM on August 31, 2017 [9 favorites]
Kansas City Star: Kris Kobach’s new job: Columnist for Breitbart
posted by zachlipton at 7:48 PM on August 31, 2017 [68 favorites]
Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach is now a regular columnist on the far-right news site run by President Donald Trump’s former chief strategist.This man is just one gigantic walking ethics problem. And a sack of shit.
...
Kobach, who also is running a private-sector law firm on top of his duties as secretary of state and serving on a presidential commission, said he writes his columns in his spare time — usually after dinner — and they do not interfere with his official duties.
“I get paid for my columns … just like you’re paid,” Kobach said when asked about compensation without specifying the amount he receives per column.
posted by zachlipton at 7:48 PM on August 31, 2017 [68 favorites]
There's a lot in this new Rucker/Parker piece for the Post: During a summer of crisis, Trump chafes against criticism and new controls. I'll give you a taste and you can savor the rest over drinks
Just to remove any doubt that Trump and Bannon (and Roger Stone) are all in regular contact, despite protestations to the contrary:
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:51 PM on August 31, 2017 [34 favorites]
Just to remove any doubt that Trump and Bannon (and Roger Stone) are all in regular contact, despite protestations to the contrary:
But Trump sometimes defies — and even resents — the new structure. He has been especially sensitive to the way Kelly’s rigid structure is portrayed in the media and strives to disabuse people of the notion that he is being managed. The president continues to call business friends and outside advisers, including former chief strategist Stephen K. Bannon, from his personal phone when Kelly is not around, said people with knowledge of the calls.Donald Trump, "Free Spirit". Now I do need a drink.
“Donald Trump resists being handled,” said Roger Stone, a former Trump adviser and longtime confidant. “Nobody tells him who to see, who to listen to, what to read, what he can say.” Stone added, “General Kelly is trying to treat the president like a mushroom. Keeping him in the dark and feeding him s--- is not going to work. Donald Trump is a free spirit.”
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:51 PM on August 31, 2017 [34 favorites]
Stalin = Hitler with a better mustache.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:04 PM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:04 PM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
Clarke is a fucking clown. I mean even his masters thesis has been exposed for plagiarism. They would have ample justification to shoot down any nomination he might get and to tell Trump, "Send us someone serious."
Wherever he lands he has one function. He's a flying monkey, servicing Trump with flattery & attacks on his enemies. He's a move by Trump to bypass Kelly. It's all about the narcissism, it's the master all must obey.
posted by scalefree at 8:08 PM on August 31, 2017
Wherever he lands he has one function. He's a flying monkey, servicing Trump with flattery & attacks on his enemies. He's a move by Trump to bypass Kelly. It's all about the narcissism, it's the master all must obey.
posted by scalefree at 8:08 PM on August 31, 2017
"Freemasons And Illuminati Are Using A Special Frequency To Change DNA And Make People Hate Trump"
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 8:09 PM on August 31, 2017 [13 favorites]
Taylor said that the media is broadcasting its audio at 440 Hz, which has been found to “damage your body organs” and “also changes your DNA, which is the goal of the Freemasons, the Illuminati; they want you part of that Illuminati bloodline.”Holy shit Foop! I just learned why VanHalen always tuned down a half-step!
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 8:09 PM on August 31, 2017 [13 favorites]
“Donald Trump resists being handled,” said Roger Stone, a former Trump adviser and longtime confidant.
LOL bragging on Twitter about how you can do, like, whatever you want, basically, there aren't really "rules" in your house while waiting until your dad's not around to sneak phone calls to boys he doesn't like is the literal opposite of that thing
posted by Snarl Furillo at 8:15 PM on August 31, 2017 [31 favorites]
LOL bragging on Twitter about how you can do, like, whatever you want, basically, there aren't really "rules" in your house while waiting until your dad's not around to sneak phone calls to boys he doesn't like is the literal opposite of that thing
posted by Snarl Furillo at 8:15 PM on August 31, 2017 [31 favorites]
440 Hz, which has been found to “damage your body organs” and “also changes your DNA'Wow, I never knew that my oboe was an instrument of destruction, when blowing middle A for the orchestra to tune to.
posted by porpoise at 8:15 PM on August 31, 2017 [20 favorites]
Even classical musicians are in on the 440 Hz conspiracy.
posted by adamg at 8:15 PM on August 31, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by adamg at 8:15 PM on August 31, 2017 [7 favorites]
Oh sure. Oboegenetics is totally a thing now.
posted by flabdablet at 8:18 PM on August 31, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 8:18 PM on August 31, 2017 [24 favorites]
Stalin = Hitler with a better mustache.
Oh he was so much more than that!
posted by Joseph Gurl at 8:18 PM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oh he was so much more than that!
posted by Joseph Gurl at 8:18 PM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
Huh. Apparently there's some people blaming the Nazis for standardized musical tuning to 440Hz, from 432Hz.
Not really (like most things, its complicated), but maybe that's where the wingnuts pulled the number from.
posted by porpoise at 8:19 PM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
Not really (like most things, its complicated), but maybe that's where the wingnuts pulled the number from.
posted by porpoise at 8:19 PM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
L.A. City Council Votes To Replace Columbus Day With Indigenous Peoples Day
posted by Room 641-A at 8:22 PM on August 31, 2017 [46 favorites]
The L.A. City Council approved a motion Wednesday to replace Columbus Day (which is celebrated on the second Monday of every October) with Indigenous Peoples Day in the city of Los Angeles.This begins by 2019. Italian American Heritage Day will be an official city holiday, but now Indigenous Peoples Day will become the city's official paid holiday.
The vote will also install an Italian American Heritage Day to be observed on October 12 of each year, and instructs the city clerk to send a letter to LAUSD indicating that the city now observes Indigenous Peoples Day, and advising the school district to do so as well.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:22 PM on August 31, 2017 [46 favorites]
Taylor said that the media is broadcasting its audio at 440 Hz,
That explains the pain while watching Dunkin commercials. Its the Hz doughnut.
posted by tilde at 8:23 PM on August 31, 2017 [14 favorites]
Switzerland?
Just a couple problems...
And little things like women not voting in federal elections until 1971 and in all local elections until 1991. but who is the demos, really
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:23 PM on August 31, 2017 [8 favorites]
Trump Aide Connected To 2006 Overseas Attack On US Marines:
In short: An American citizen who helped elect a conservative president with a strong patriotic, pro-military message was on the payroll of a foreign group that the U.S. government believes directly threatened its military personnel and undermined its foreign policy. Ukrainian officials and some former U.S. diplomats I’ve spoken to are convinced that Manafort knew about, and possibly helped plan, the anti-American protests.posted by corb at 8:27 PM on August 31, 2017 [27 favorites]
Border wall prototypes will start going up in weeksposted by tilde at 8:30 PM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
KEVIN JOHNSON | USA TODAY
The companies, representing Alabama, Arizona, Mississippi and Texas, won awards valued at up to $500,000 each to build reinforced concrete models of up to 30 feet high and 30 feet long.
Vitiello said construction could begin in a matter of weeks in a stretch along the San Diego border sector. The concrete prototypes are being envisioned as a secondary wall, to be built more than 150 feet inland from a see-through primary border barrier.
North Texas Daily (the student newspaper at University of North Texas) reports that Donald Trump Jr. will receive $100,000 to speak, plus expenses. This is for the guy who is supposed to be off running the business, remember?
posted by zachlipton at 8:32 PM on August 31, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 8:32 PM on August 31, 2017 [9 favorites]
If he ever finds out
Who's highjacked his name
He'd cut out his heart
And turn in his grave
posted by Meatbomb at 8:34 PM on August 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
Who's highjacked his name
He'd cut out his heart
And turn in his grave
posted by Meatbomb at 8:34 PM on August 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
The concrete prototypes are being envisioned as a secondary wall, to be built more than 150 feet inland from a see-through primary border barrier.
So, like the no-man's land between North Korea and South Korea then?
posted by mikelieman at 8:43 PM on August 31, 2017 [7 favorites]
So, like the no-man's land between North Korea and South Korea then?
posted by mikelieman at 8:43 PM on August 31, 2017 [7 favorites]
The concrete prototypes are being envisioned as a secondary wall, to be built more than 150 feet inland from a see-through primary border barrier.
A double wall would inevitably trap some people who could climb one wall but not the other. In the desert, without shelter, that's a death sentence. Don't fool yourself into thinking that they see it as a bug and not a feature.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:49 PM on August 31, 2017 [17 favorites]
A double wall would inevitably trap some people who could climb one wall but not the other. In the desert, without shelter, that's a death sentence. Don't fool yourself into thinking that they see it as a bug and not a feature.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:49 PM on August 31, 2017 [17 favorites]
So, like the no-man's land between North Korea and South Korea then?
Or East & West Berlin.
posted by scalefree at 8:51 PM on August 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
Or East & West Berlin.
posted by scalefree at 8:51 PM on August 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
Or East & West Berlin.
Or Verdun. That might be a better model. Gives 'em a place to dump toxic waste, too.
posted by mikelieman at 9:21 PM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
Or Verdun. That might be a better model. Gives 'em a place to dump toxic waste, too.
posted by mikelieman at 9:21 PM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
tonycpsu: "Thank you so much for posting this, as Rothfus is, sadly, my rep."
Ugh, me too. Even worse, he lives about four blocks away from me.
I believe there are four people running for the Dem nomination at this point, plus McClelland is thinking about running again.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:23 PM on August 31, 2017
Ugh, me too. Even worse, he lives about four blocks away from me.
I believe there are four people running for the Dem nomination at this point, plus McClelland is thinking about running again.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:23 PM on August 31, 2017
About the other candidates hoping to run against Rothfus (Prigg AMA answer):
Beth Tarasi is a corporate lawyer, pro-life candidate who entered the race at a request. Let me clarify. Beth believes abortion is only an option after a doctor says it is. She began working for her father after school and has been there ever since. The blue collar voters here will not connect with her.posted by christopherious at 9:34 PM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
John Stolz is an environmental professor running on an environmental ticket. It won't go in this district.
Aaron Anthony sees early education as the way to improve our society. While it's legit that education is very important and necessary, it's not a silver bullet and thus an over simplification of very complicated problems.
Eric Trump is just seeing how much you care whether he's stupid or not.
posted by rhizome at 9:36 PM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by rhizome at 9:36 PM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
Can Mexico sue for a prescriptive easement, just to troll Trump?
posted by ctmf at 9:58 PM on August 31, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by ctmf at 9:58 PM on August 31, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm so sick of the "Trump Pledges $1M" articles all over the news.
I want to see someone on camera who works for a hurricane-related charity walking out of a bank and confirming that they have successfully deposited $1 million from a Trump account.
Otherwise I'll just wait for the usual "Trump pledged $1M, but he never paid" article buried under six pages of other news in a month and a half.
posted by mmoncur at 10:48 PM on August 31, 2017 [76 favorites]
I want to see someone on camera who works for a hurricane-related charity walking out of a bank and confirming that they have successfully deposited $1 million from a Trump account.
Otherwise I'll just wait for the usual "Trump pledged $1M, but he never paid" article buried under six pages of other news in a month and a half.
posted by mmoncur at 10:48 PM on August 31, 2017 [76 favorites]
North Texas Daily (the student newspaper at University of North Texas) reports that Donald Trump Jr. will receive $100,000 to speak, plus expenses. This is for the guy who is supposed to be off running the business, remember?
In fairness, self-promotion and grift are much more a part of running the family business than anything that would involve actual work.
posted by Copronymus at 10:51 PM on August 31, 2017 [7 favorites]
In fairness, self-promotion and grift are much more a part of running the family business than anything that would involve actual work.
posted by Copronymus at 10:51 PM on August 31, 2017 [7 favorites]
The first thing I thought of when I heard he'd pledged $1M was that it was going to come out of the same "Charity" he used to cover his son's $7.00 Boy Scouts dues. And yeah, it's not even his money.
posted by michswiss at 10:54 PM on August 31, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by michswiss at 10:54 PM on August 31, 2017 [23 favorites]
Spiegel Online: U.S. Ad Agency Boosts Right-Wing Populist AfD
[...]
posted by runcifex at 12:44 AM on September 1, 2017 [18 favorites]
To boost its online election campaign, the right-wing populist Alternative for Germany* party has turned to a Texas-based advertising agency for help. The company has worked with Donald Trump.* AfD, an extreme right-wing nationalist party
[...]
To place advertisements on Google or Facebook, AfD now no longer has to go through the German subsidiaries of the internet giants. Here in Germany, the party has recently been facing a lot of resistance from those offices when it tries to buy ads. Now the team at Harris Media just places quick calls to the companies' headquarters in Silicon Valley, sources say, where the agency is very well networked as a result of its many successful political campaigns for the Republicans. AfD's orders are then simply put through to Germany from the United States.Talk about foreign interference.
posted by runcifex at 12:44 AM on September 1, 2017 [18 favorites]
I'd like to highlight this comment from user bexmex on Reddit, because it is an interesting observation regarding the IRS coming onboard. Something I had not considered, sounds quite plausible, and that is making me smile going into the weekend:
Oh, they care already...
For a complex combination of reasons, the USA is literally the best place on the planet for money laundering. She'll companies are legal, you can spin up a corporation in 20 minutes, lots of nice laws that protect corporate assets, lots of rich people who want to hide their money, and lots of complex tax laws.
So, out of pure greed, Russian oligarchs decided to move roughly 1.4 trillion dollars of wealth out of Russia and into the West. A lot of which made it to America.
After this investigation, not only will Mueller nail Drumpf... but he'll nail the entire fucking Russian money laundering network. And then boom! All that 1.4 trillion is assets will be siezed. The life savings of every crook in Russia will now be US property. And they will all blame Putin for this. If he hadn't meddled in the election, this literally never would have happened.
Naturally the Russian people will want that money brought back to them. But the USA gets to decide how that money goes back... and what conditions need to be met first.
This could end up quite excellently. Here's hoping. Fuck you Donanld Drumpf and an even bigger fuck you to Putin!
posted by Meatbomb at 3:29 AM on September 1, 2017 [88 favorites]
Oh, they care already...
For a complex combination of reasons, the USA is literally the best place on the planet for money laundering. She'll companies are legal, you can spin up a corporation in 20 minutes, lots of nice laws that protect corporate assets, lots of rich people who want to hide their money, and lots of complex tax laws.
So, out of pure greed, Russian oligarchs decided to move roughly 1.4 trillion dollars of wealth out of Russia and into the West. A lot of which made it to America.
After this investigation, not only will Mueller nail Drumpf... but he'll nail the entire fucking Russian money laundering network. And then boom! All that 1.4 trillion is assets will be siezed. The life savings of every crook in Russia will now be US property. And they will all blame Putin for this. If he hadn't meddled in the election, this literally never would have happened.
Naturally the Russian people will want that money brought back to them. But the USA gets to decide how that money goes back... and what conditions need to be met first.
This could end up quite excellently. Here's hoping. Fuck you Donanld Drumpf and an even bigger fuck you to Putin!
posted by Meatbomb at 3:29 AM on September 1, 2017 [88 favorites]
Mad Magazine goes Norman Rockwellian.
posted by valetta at 3:29 AM on September 1, 2017 [61 favorites]
posted by valetta at 3:29 AM on September 1, 2017 [61 favorites]
That Rockwell parody is amazing.
Here's some inside baseball about it: Literally yesterday I was at the Norman Rockwell museum in Stockbridge, MA. It was excellent, but even more so in that there is a current exhibit juxtaposing Rockwell and Andy Warhol. Both wildly well known, both did art heavily influenced by commerce, both painted celebrities--the resonances were breathaking.
In addition, there is an exhibit by Andy's nephew, James Warhola, himself an accomplished artist including longstanding work at... Mad Magazine.
Warhola did not do that parody painting but I can't imagine that there isn't a connection!
posted by Sublimity at 3:58 AM on September 1, 2017 [16 favorites]
Here's some inside baseball about it: Literally yesterday I was at the Norman Rockwell museum in Stockbridge, MA. It was excellent, but even more so in that there is a current exhibit juxtaposing Rockwell and Andy Warhol. Both wildly well known, both did art heavily influenced by commerce, both painted celebrities--the resonances were breathaking.
In addition, there is an exhibit by Andy's nephew, James Warhola, himself an accomplished artist including longstanding work at... Mad Magazine.
Warhola did not do that parody painting but I can't imagine that there isn't a connection!
posted by Sublimity at 3:58 AM on September 1, 2017 [16 favorites]
Walter Schaub on Trump's "donation." (Twitter link, but it is an image of text so more than 140 chars)
Brett Forrest of the Wall Street Journal reports Manafort didn't just work for assorted unsavory politicians during his years abroad... He was employed for more than a decade by Oleg Deripaska specifically. When he was working for a Ukrainian political party... He was still also working for a Russian oligarch.
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:29 AM on September 1, 2017 [14 favorites]
Brett Forrest of the Wall Street Journal reports Manafort didn't just work for assorted unsavory politicians during his years abroad... He was employed for more than a decade by Oleg Deripaska specifically. When he was working for a Ukrainian political party... He was still also working for a Russian oligarch.
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:29 AM on September 1, 2017 [14 favorites]
The obvious question that WSJ story raises is... was Manafort actually still on Deripaska's payroll when he was "volunteeing" for Trump's campaign? Which started in 2015?
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:33 AM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:33 AM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Trump, described in the Reddit comments:
posted by jaduncan at 4:38 AM on September 1, 2017 [73 favorites]
chowderbags 340 points 11 hours agoIt's a comparison I didn't realise I needed in my life, but I definitely did.
I imagine that Mueller in this investigation is like any time in Kitchen Nightmares where Gordon Ramsey goes into a kitchen and it's just horror after horror no matter where he looks.
whosthedoginthisscen 302 points 10 hours ago
And Trump is Amy (of Baking Company fame), saying all the negative feedback is wrong, that everyone says they love their food, and that everyone else is a 'hater'.
posted by jaduncan at 4:38 AM on September 1, 2017 [73 favorites]
Okay sorry just one more thought on that WSJ story...
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:43 AM on September 1, 2017 [51 favorites]
Mr. Deripaska, 49 years old, earned his fortune in the mayhem following the Soviet Union’s collapse when he emerged as the principal shareholder of Rusal, once the world’s largest aluminum producer."Earned"! Oh WSJ, you never change.
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:43 AM on September 1, 2017 [51 favorites]
If you want to go into exhaustive detail on that comparison, jaduncan, Alexandra Erin, the Internet's favorite fantasy romance author-slash-crowdfunded Twitter-based political commentator, wrote a thread on the parallels a while back. Including that they're both a front for money-laundering that went way too public.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 5:38 AM on September 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 5:38 AM on September 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
The president still can't spell the word "heal." Nobody could have known how hard it is.
@realDonaldTrump
Texas is heeling fast thanks to all of the great men & women who have been working so hard. But still, so much to do. Will be back tomorrow!
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:50 AM on September 1, 2017 [16 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump
Texas is heeling fast thanks to all of the great men & women who have been working so hard. But still, so much to do. Will be back tomorrow!
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:50 AM on September 1, 2017 [16 favorites]
That's no typo. #GoodDog
posted by Rykey at 5:55 AM on September 1, 2017 [41 favorites]
posted by Rykey at 5:55 AM on September 1, 2017 [41 favorites]
Which raises the philosophical question: does Texas know when it's being messed with?
posted by petebest at 6:24 AM on September 1, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by petebest at 6:24 AM on September 1, 2017 [32 favorites]
A reply to the WaPo article linked upthread
Why It's Just Bonkers to Compare Fascists to the Activists Trying to Stop Them. The sooner we stop the false equivalencies, the better we'll be at fighting Trump's agenda.
It should be noted that Marc Thiessen, a fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, wrote speeches for George W. Bush. He used his Washington Post column in 2015 to ask candidates in the US presidential election to stop calling Donald Trump a ‘fascist’ or to compare him to Hitler. Theissen started his political career at the feet of Senator Jesse Helms, who was closely aligned with the variant of American fascism that opposed the civil rights movement. So this, now, is the person that the Washington Post turns to in its quest to disparage the upsurge against American fascism.
posted by adamvasco at 6:37 AM on September 1, 2017 [28 favorites]
Why It's Just Bonkers to Compare Fascists to the Activists Trying to Stop Them. The sooner we stop the false equivalencies, the better we'll be at fighting Trump's agenda.
It should be noted that Marc Thiessen, a fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, wrote speeches for George W. Bush. He used his Washington Post column in 2015 to ask candidates in the US presidential election to stop calling Donald Trump a ‘fascist’ or to compare him to Hitler. Theissen started his political career at the feet of Senator Jesse Helms, who was closely aligned with the variant of American fascism that opposed the civil rights movement. So this, now, is the person that the Washington Post turns to in its quest to disparage the upsurge against American fascism.
posted by adamvasco at 6:37 AM on September 1, 2017 [28 favorites]
Re: 440Hz, Bach here, there are definitely conspiracy theorists out there who will tell you that all physical matter is made up of vibrations (or "vibes") of particles on frequencies that are outside the "visible spectrum" of light. This includes our precious DNA and, coincidentally(?), our coffees.
Yeah, can't see it, and also most of the physical world is empty space! I say no thank you, Mr. Moonbat! You try running through a solid wall, but I will enjoy my frappuccino and CSI in the visible spectrum!
Also, Hendrix recorded down a half step but frankly I think that guy was high a lot.
posted by petebest at 6:42 AM on September 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
Yeah, can't see it, and also most of the physical world is empty space! I say no thank you, Mr. Moonbat! You try running through a solid wall, but I will enjoy my frappuccino and CSI in the visible spectrum!
Also, Hendrix recorded down a half step but frankly I think that guy was high a lot.
posted by petebest at 6:42 AM on September 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
Creepy interview experience at FT with creepy Rinat Akhmetshin, who sounds exactly like the kind of vain, unhinged, nervous breakdown waiting to happen that this WH attracts.
"Over lunch, the 49-year-old hurtles his way to the end of each sentence without pause, using “f**k” the way millennials use “like”: constantly. He tells me he “almost certainly” has attention-deficit disorder. His choice of venue is as brazen as his avowals that he is blameless. We are plum in the centre of Mirabelle, just a block from the White House, a restaurant so luxurious they asked if it was a special occasion when I made the booking. The room of golden latticeworks and mirrors is packed with Washington power diners. It only opened in the spring, but Akhmetshin has already been “20 or 30 times”. Greeted warmly by staff, he embarks on a long meditation on the wonders of Islamic ornament and its deliberate imperfection, triggered by the interior design. “Only Allah is perfect,” he concludes. Then he orders us both pink champagne.
“Can I have mine maybe in a burgundy glass?” he asks the wine director, turning the exotic request into a friendly command. Then he turns to me conspiratorially and adds: “You know there are champagnes which you decant!”
posted by rc3spencer at 6:44 AM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
"Over lunch, the 49-year-old hurtles his way to the end of each sentence without pause, using “f**k” the way millennials use “like”: constantly. He tells me he “almost certainly” has attention-deficit disorder. His choice of venue is as brazen as his avowals that he is blameless. We are plum in the centre of Mirabelle, just a block from the White House, a restaurant so luxurious they asked if it was a special occasion when I made the booking. The room of golden latticeworks and mirrors is packed with Washington power diners. It only opened in the spring, but Akhmetshin has already been “20 or 30 times”. Greeted warmly by staff, he embarks on a long meditation on the wonders of Islamic ornament and its deliberate imperfection, triggered by the interior design. “Only Allah is perfect,” he concludes. Then he orders us both pink champagne.
“Can I have mine maybe in a burgundy glass?” he asks the wine director, turning the exotic request into a friendly command. Then he turns to me conspiratorially and adds: “You know there are champagnes which you decant!”
posted by rc3spencer at 6:44 AM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Betsy DeVos' brother Erik Prince might end up in a spot of trouble, what?
Murder is very, very bad form, indeed.
A former Blackwater employee and an ex-US Marine who has worked as a security operative for the company have made a series of explosive allegations in sworn statements filed on August 3 in federal court in Virginia. The two men claim that the company’s owner, Erik Prince, may have murdered or facilitated the murder of individuals who were cooperating with federal authorities investigating the company. The former employee also alleges that Prince "views himself as a Christian crusader tasked with eliminating Muslims and the Islamic faith from the globe," and that Prince’s companies "encouraged and rewarded the destruction of Iraqi life.”
posted by droplet at 6:50 AM on September 1, 2017 [54 favorites]
Murder is very, very bad form, indeed.
A former Blackwater employee and an ex-US Marine who has worked as a security operative for the company have made a series of explosive allegations in sworn statements filed on August 3 in federal court in Virginia. The two men claim that the company’s owner, Erik Prince, may have murdered or facilitated the murder of individuals who were cooperating with federal authorities investigating the company. The former employee also alleges that Prince "views himself as a Christian crusader tasked with eliminating Muslims and the Islamic faith from the globe," and that Prince’s companies "encouraged and rewarded the destruction of Iraqi life.”
posted by droplet at 6:50 AM on September 1, 2017 [54 favorites]
Please can we stop with the 440Hz tangent?
(Also, it's not a "half step down". Many touring guitarists tune a half step down (Eb vs E) because it makes the string tension lower, and hurts their hands less to play for long periods every night. 432Hz vs 440Hz, on the other hand, is actually only about 12 cents flat. You can get a decent chorusing effect with that amount of detuning, and while a good chorus sounds nice and full; tuning everyone to 432Hz doesn't reorient your chakras or whatever.)
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:50 AM on September 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
(Also, it's not a "half step down". Many touring guitarists tune a half step down (Eb vs E) because it makes the string tension lower, and hurts their hands less to play for long periods every night. 432Hz vs 440Hz, on the other hand, is actually only about 12 cents flat. You can get a decent chorusing effect with that amount of detuning, and while a good chorus sounds nice and full; tuning everyone to 432Hz doesn't reorient your chakras or whatever.)
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:50 AM on September 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
At least one country isn't accepting Cambridge Analytica deciding who leads them...
Kenya's Supreme Court declares presidential election result null, orders do-over
More background on this twitter thread from @TheRynheart
Guess we now know the answer to REM song.
posted by Buntix at 6:51 AM on September 1, 2017 [18 favorites]
Kenya's Supreme Court declares presidential election result null, orders do-over
More background on this twitter thread from @TheRynheart
Guess we now know the answer to REM song.
posted by Buntix at 6:51 AM on September 1, 2017 [18 favorites]
Maybe he meant "heeling" as in "about to capsize."
posted by Westringia F. at 6:51 AM on September 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Westringia F. at 6:51 AM on September 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
Murder is very, very bad form, indeed.
This has yet to be proven in a country where nazis killing people is apparently equally bad form as people trying to stop nazis and where running murderous concentration camps in the desert is patriotic and wholesome.
"I've seen the future, brother: it is murder."
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:01 AM on September 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
This has yet to be proven in a country where nazis killing people is apparently equally bad form as people trying to stop nazis and where running murderous concentration camps in the desert is patriotic and wholesome.
"I've seen the future, brother: it is murder."
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:01 AM on September 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
It should be noted that Marc Thiessen, a fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, wrote speeches for George W. Bush. He used his Washington Post column in 2015 to ask candidates in the US presidential election to stop calling Donald Trump a ‘fascist’
I have no love for Marc Thiessen, and I have no patience for "both sides" nonsense about Charlottesville being pushed by Russian trolls. And I think there are very good reasons to call Donald Trump a fascist, given the similarity of Trumpism and fascism, and the fact that some of Trump's followers also praise Julius Evola.
However, I am very concerned that on my Indivisible groups I am seeing people saying stuff like this: "Punching back at the bullies absolutely does not make one like them; that's a hateful lie that is only spread by those who are comfortable with the suffering of their victims. Being willing to beat bullies into an insensate pulp in rational response to the threat they pose is not becoming like them, it's just not being a mealy-mouthed quisling."
Same guy also said: "Martin Luther King, great man though he undeniably was, was not right about everything, and not for all time. And as others have mentioned previously, nonviolence is only *one part* of an effective strategy of resistance. Violence is, in fact, another part. Punching Nazis is always the right thing to do. If you can't do it. then don't. But I can, and will."
This was in response to my posting this Martin Luther King quote. Which is the kind of rhetoric I used to hear from leftists and liberals more, and wish I were hearing more of right now, instead of spirited defenses of Nazi punching...
I have no love for Marc Thiessen, and I have no patience for "both sides" nonsense about Charlottesville being pushed by Russian trolls. And I think there are very good reasons to call Donald Trump a fascist, given the similarity of Trumpism and fascism, and the fact that some of Trump's followers also praise Julius Evola.
However, I am very concerned that on my Indivisible groups I am seeing people saying stuff like this: "Punching back at the bullies absolutely does not make one like them; that's a hateful lie that is only spread by those who are comfortable with the suffering of their victims. Being willing to beat bullies into an insensate pulp in rational response to the threat they pose is not becoming like them, it's just not being a mealy-mouthed quisling."
Same guy also said: "Martin Luther King, great man though he undeniably was, was not right about everything, and not for all time. And as others have mentioned previously, nonviolence is only *one part* of an effective strategy of resistance. Violence is, in fact, another part. Punching Nazis is always the right thing to do. If you can't do it. then don't. But I can, and will."
This was in response to my posting this Martin Luther King quote. Which is the kind of rhetoric I used to hear from leftists and liberals more, and wish I were hearing more of right now, instead of spirited defenses of Nazi punching...
“The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral; begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. Instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it. Through violence you may murder the liar, but you cannot murder the lie, nor establish the truth. Through violence you may murder the hater, but you do not murder hate. In fact, violence merely increases hate. So it goes. Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.” (1967, Where Do We Go from Here: Chaos or Community?. p. 67.)posted by OnceUponATime at 7:03 AM on September 1, 2017 [13 favorites]
I think what most offends rightists and the media about Antifa is that they are leftists who are not physical cowards. A lot of these guys have bought into the stereotype that "liberal=pussy", and to have that proven wrong breaks something in their brain.
My first gut reaction to encountering this statement contained mildly affirmative notes. But on a moments' serious reflection, I discovered that I really couldn't agree.
The statement presupposes that (1) Antifa offends rightists, and (2) Antifa offends the media.
It's kind of strange to lump those two groups together, isn't it? I also think the terms 'media', and even moreso, 'rightist', are overly broad in this context, but I'll go with it for now, with the understanding that because of the broad brushes, any position on the subject comes laden with caveats. Having said all that...
Taking (2) first, let's be clear up front that the media is not a sentient entity, and as such cannot be offended. While Antifa may offend members of the media, that is a specific other thing. Attempting to address that under the broad brush of the media as a whole would be a logical fallacy. So, leaving that aside, I believe Antifa furnishes the media with a resonant, kneejerk, narrative symmetry - a dichotomy, the very same one that had me initially nodding along to the beat a bit - which makes it easy to produce content that people will consume. However, going about it this way, the whole story doesn't get told, and many elements get distorted. For example, nonviolence has a proud, storied tradition and heritage as a moral and political stance that has the power to transform societies. But transformation is not symmetric, so when the media adopts a symmetric narrative frame, nonviolence will tend to be summarily sidelined. A false narrative emerges, in which nonviolence can only persist because there are those who are willing to do violence to protect it. Which is, frankly, toxic bullshit.
As for (1), I think the record is abundantly clear that rightists' air-our-grievances-and-threaten-the-peace rallies predate Antifa showing up. (For historical parallel, see Lincoln's recently-and-oft-referenced Cooper Union Speech. For a salient section, Ctrl-F 'black republican'.) If somebody is already blazingly offended, I don't know what value there is in the idea that a subsequent factor is responsible for the pre-existing condition. So I don't think that Antifa really offends rightists, so much as it furnishes them with a focal point for their outrage that they can engage with on their own terms.
tl;dr: NoiseCat is right.
posted by perspicio at 7:10 AM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
My first gut reaction to encountering this statement contained mildly affirmative notes. But on a moments' serious reflection, I discovered that I really couldn't agree.
The statement presupposes that (1) Antifa offends rightists, and (2) Antifa offends the media.
It's kind of strange to lump those two groups together, isn't it? I also think the terms 'media', and even moreso, 'rightist', are overly broad in this context, but I'll go with it for now, with the understanding that because of the broad brushes, any position on the subject comes laden with caveats. Having said all that...
Taking (2) first, let's be clear up front that the media is not a sentient entity, and as such cannot be offended. While Antifa may offend members of the media, that is a specific other thing. Attempting to address that under the broad brush of the media as a whole would be a logical fallacy. So, leaving that aside, I believe Antifa furnishes the media with a resonant, kneejerk, narrative symmetry - a dichotomy, the very same one that had me initially nodding along to the beat a bit - which makes it easy to produce content that people will consume. However, going about it this way, the whole story doesn't get told, and many elements get distorted. For example, nonviolence has a proud, storied tradition and heritage as a moral and political stance that has the power to transform societies. But transformation is not symmetric, so when the media adopts a symmetric narrative frame, nonviolence will tend to be summarily sidelined. A false narrative emerges, in which nonviolence can only persist because there are those who are willing to do violence to protect it. Which is, frankly, toxic bullshit.
As for (1), I think the record is abundantly clear that rightists' air-our-grievances-and-threaten-the-peace rallies predate Antifa showing up. (For historical parallel, see Lincoln's recently-and-oft-referenced Cooper Union Speech. For a salient section, Ctrl-F 'black republican'.) If somebody is already blazingly offended, I don't know what value there is in the idea that a subsequent factor is responsible for the pre-existing condition. So I don't think that Antifa really offends rightists, so much as it furnishes them with a focal point for their outrage that they can engage with on their own terms.
tl;dr: NoiseCat is right.
posted by perspicio at 7:10 AM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
For those unfamiliar with the Gordon Ramsay / Amy's Bakery meltdown mentioned above...you're in for a treat. (BTW: the restaurant closed in 2015.)
posted by darkstar at 7:10 AM on September 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by darkstar at 7:10 AM on September 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
tuning everyone to 432Hz doesn't reorient your chakras or whatever
Oh of course it does.
Everybody knows that 1 second is the natural period of the tranquil human heart, and 432Hz is exactly 222 × 33 beats per second.
In other words, 432 is the natural product of Two (the duality of Inner and Outer Being) raised unto its own power Two times, and Three (the Holy Trinity) raised unto its own power a.k.a. cubed i.e. made solid and Manifest. And the truth of this holy union is itself encoded in the Name of the Number, which when read from right to left according to ancient Vedic tradition, counts in the Song.
You can argue with me, but you can't argue with power like that.
posted by flabdablet at 7:13 AM on September 1, 2017 [22 favorites]
Oh of course it does.
Everybody knows that 1 second is the natural period of the tranquil human heart, and 432Hz is exactly 222 × 33 beats per second.
In other words, 432 is the natural product of Two (the duality of Inner and Outer Being) raised unto its own power Two times, and Three (the Holy Trinity) raised unto its own power a.k.a. cubed i.e. made solid and Manifest. And the truth of this holy union is itself encoded in the Name of the Number, which when read from right to left according to ancient Vedic tradition, counts in the Song.
You can argue with me, but you can't argue with power like that.
posted by flabdablet at 7:13 AM on September 1, 2017 [22 favorites]
That Erik Prince story is from 2009. That does not negate the fact that he is a full on rightwing christofascist and war profiteer.
I prefer Rolling Stone´s recent article Who Cares What Erik Prince Thinks? also Politico has a story up about the Afghanistan Plan; I Was a Mercenary. Trust Me: Erik Prince’s Plan Is Garbage, and HuffPo has an interview.
posted by adamvasco at 7:23 AM on September 1, 2017 [11 favorites]
I prefer Rolling Stone´s recent article Who Cares What Erik Prince Thinks? also Politico has a story up about the Afghanistan Plan; I Was a Mercenary. Trust Me: Erik Prince’s Plan Is Garbage, and HuffPo has an interview.
posted by adamvasco at 7:23 AM on September 1, 2017 [11 favorites]
Trump Says Jobs Can Close Racial Divides. Here's Why That's Unlikely (NPR, Sept. 1, 2017)
posted by filthy light thief at 7:25 AM on September 1, 2017 [24 favorites]
President Trump says he has a fix to the deep racial divide in America, blatantly exposed in the clashes between white supremacists and counterprotesters in Charlottesville, Va.Bigger paychecks for who, again? If we're going to mirror Reagan, the top 10 percent will be fucking thrilled. The Mystery Of Income Inequality Broken Down To One Simple Chart (Louis Woodhill for Forbes, March 28, 2013)
"I think if we continue to create jobs at levels that I'm creating jobs, I think that's going to have a tremendously positive impact on race relations. I do. I do," he said in Phoenix, Ariz., on Aug. 22, adding that he thinks bigger paychecks will also help improve race relations.
From 20 feet away, anyone can see that something bad happened to the U.S. economy in 1968. Prior to that, America experienced rapid income growth that was widely shared. The incomes of both “the ten percent” and “the ninety percent” increased by 80% in just 20 years. We had prosperity, without rising income inequality.The article is a bit woo, given that Woodhill blames "the beginning of the end of our gold-defined dollar" as the first problem, but he pins the divide on Reagan:
This 21-year “golden age” then gave way to 14 years of income stagnation, which was also widely shared. Incomes didn’t rise, but neither did income inequality.
Then something good (but not great) happened around 1983 that got incomes growing again, but not nearly as fast as during 1948 – 1968, and at the cost of rapidly widening income inequality.
Ronald Reagan’s across-the-board supply-side tax cuts became fully effective at the start of 1983. These, coupled with Volcker’s quasi-stabilized fiat dollar, got the economy moving again. RGDP growth during the 18 years 1983 – 2000 averaged 3.67%, while inflation subsided to 2.64%.All emphasis mine. Bouncing back to the NPR piece:
Things got better for everyone during this period, but quite unequally. The incomes of “the ninety percent” rose by about 17%, while those of “the ten percent” shot up by 106%.
The unemployment rate for black Americans has been roughly double the unemployment rate for white Americans for a very long time.Trump: doing less for the economy than Obama.
To Trump, it's not just about the quantity of jobs, but also the quality; Trump has said that better wages can improve race relations in America.
There is a yawning racial wage gap in the country among major racial and ethnic groups, with whites and Asians earning far more than their black and Hispanic counterparts.
And while whites and Asians tend to have higher levels of education than blacks and Hispanics, that doesn't explain these disparities. According to 2014 data from the Labor Department, whites and Asians tended to earn more than Hispanics and blacks across much of the education spectrum.
...
Trump brags about having created more than 1 million jobs during his presidency. And it's true that, as the president says, more than 1 million jobs have been created during his presidency.
But that's not an unusual pace of job creation — thus far, U.S. employers have added an average of 179,000 jobs per month during the Trump presidency, roughly equal to 2016's pace (187,000). In fact, 2016 and 2017 thus far are down from the preceding years.
In other words, this level of job growth has existed for years in America, and it doesn't appear to have done much — at least, not directly or immediately — to close America's deep economic racial divides.
In any event, presidents have little direct control over the economy. They can, however, push policies that buoy job creation — President Barack Obama's financial crisis-era stimulus package is an extreme example of this.
Trump has talked about a massive infrastructure plan, but when he last made a major push for it, it was frustratingly vague. He champions manufacturing, but most of that industry's lost jobs are never coming back. He is pushing tax cuts, but it's not at all certain that would create jobs.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:25 AM on September 1, 2017 [24 favorites]
Also, what could be more brave/less cowardly than upholding nonviolence in the face of direct, physical violence? Yet Antifa gets more focus than nonviolence. Disrupting the liberal=pussy stereotype doesn't explain that.
posted by perspicio at 7:26 AM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by perspicio at 7:26 AM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
The marches planned after Charlottesville weren't cancelled because there were physical altercations in Charlottesville. The cancellations started when the fascists' schools and jobs and home communities were told they were being fascists.
Mainstream media likes to report high-visibility group nonviolence, like marching with signs. As has been discussed at length, that doesn't cause visible immediate change, so they like to discount it. They don't talk about "post flyers at workplaces saying 'A Wannabe Nazi Works Here'" as nonviolent activism.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 7:32 AM on September 1, 2017 [30 favorites]
Mainstream media likes to report high-visibility group nonviolence, like marching with signs. As has been discussed at length, that doesn't cause visible immediate change, so they like to discount it. They don't talk about "post flyers at workplaces saying 'A Wannabe Nazi Works Here'" as nonviolent activism.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 7:32 AM on September 1, 2017 [30 favorites]
Since Antifa and MLK are coming up, this thread may be of interest. By a history professor at CUNY who focuses on social movements and change.
@studentactivism Retweeted Wonton Pannekoek
If you reflexively oppose antifa today, you probably would have opposed the lunch counter sit-ins in 1960.
By far most common rebuttal to my tweet has been some version of the below:
The lunch counter sit-ins were nonviolent, the argument goes, and antifa is not. That's a bright-line distinction. No comparison. There's a few problems with that, though. First of all, not all lunch counter sit-ins were nonviolent. Let's take a look...
- High Point, NC. Feb 15, 1960. Fistfights outside sit-in. Local NAACP leader says protesters will continue to fight back. [screenshot of news story]
- Tampa, March 1, 1960. Fight breaks out between lunch counter sit-in demonstrators and opponents. [screenshot]
- Feb 16, 1960, Portsmouth, VA. Hundreds brawl after scuffle at lunch counter sit-in, wielding razors and hammers. [screenshot]
And this is just a snapshot of a month's coverage of the movement in the New York Times. There was plenty more. Today we see the lunch counter sit-ins as uniformly nonviolent. But they weren't, and they weren't seen that way at the time. So if your view is that any recourse to violence renders a protest movement illegitimate, you would have opposed the lunch counter sit-ins.
"But wait!" I hear you cry. "Those acts of violence took place outside the sit-ins. They didn't represent the values of the organizers." Well, there's some problems with that analysis, too. First, the sit-ins, like antifa, weren't a centrally coordinated, ideologically uniform, movement. Lots of people participated in sit-ins for lots of different reasons, with lots of different attitudes toward nonviolence. There wasn't any one "real" sit-in ideology, and there isn't any one "real" antifa approach. There's wide variation in each. If your view of antifa is "some of it is good, some bad, some makes me nervous," then you probably would have been down with the sit-ins. And here's another thing about the lunch counter sit-ins. A lot of people opposed them because they worried they'd *provoke* violence. Here's the Providence (RI) Journal, quoted in the Times in March 1960: [screenshot] These days we understand violence provoked by protest as the moral burden of those who commit it. But that idea was controversial in 1960.
Which brings us to a larger point. The idea that the line between good/bad protest is violence is, as a matter of conventional wisdom, NEW. In 1960, a lot of good, antiracist liberals hated the idea of protests that violated the law, or that put protesters at risk of harm. And beyond their moral objections, many saw such tactics as deeply counterproductive, likely to make things worse, not better. Here's Gov. LeRoy Collins of Florida, a critic of segregation, in 1960: [screenshot] Why did so many liberals see sit-ins as wrong in 1960? And why do their heirs see them as the apotheosis of productive protest now? Because their tactics worked. Because they won.
Okay. Let's go back to the tweet I started all this off with, and let me say a bit more about what I meant by it. Actually, let me start by saying what I DIDN'T mean by it, and what I didn't say, then or later. My position is not that all antifa tactics are good, or that antifa and the lunch counter sit-ins are morally indistinguishable. Antifa has a different center of gravity than the lunch counter sit-ins when it comes to violence. That difference is morally relevant. It is ABSOLUTELY possible to articulate a coherent moral position in favor of the sit-ins and in opposition to antifa. That is indisputable. But look at what I said in the first tweet: If you're REFLEXIVELY opposed to antifa now, you probably would have opposed the sit-ins then. Most Americans—most antiracist Americans, even—opposed the sit-ins in 1960. Why? Because sit-ins were a radical, confrontational tactic. If you REFLEXIVELY—that is, without study, without disaggregation, without weighing opposing views—oppose antifa now? Well, guess what? You're a person who, LIKE MOST PEOPLE, responds instinctively negatively to novel, radical tactics for achieving social change. And people who responded instinctively negatively to novel, radical tactics for achieving social change in 1960? Didn't support the sit-ins.
So what do I think about antifa? What's my position as a scholar of social movements and a supporter of radical action? Man, I don't know. I mean, I do know, sort of. I support putting your body on the line in defense of the defenseless, as antifa often does. I support responding emphatically to fascist violence and threats of violence. I believe in making bullies fear for their safety. Do I believe that sometimes it's necessary to punch a fascist before they punch someone else? Yeah. Am I wholly comfortable with that? No. Do I entirely trust what happens when you give someone a mask and a club and a sense of moral rectitude? Nope nope nope. Hell no. So where do I stand on antifa? Here: I'm working on it. I'm chewing on it. I'm learning and thinking. Do I support antifa? Tell me which antifa you mean. Tell me what they're doing. And then I'll tell you.
posted by chris24 at 7:37 AM on September 1, 2017 [164 favorites]
@studentactivism Retweeted Wonton Pannekoek
If you reflexively oppose antifa today, you probably would have opposed the lunch counter sit-ins in 1960.
@forstudentpower: Your regularly-scheduled reminder to not let public opinion dictate how we fight for liberation. From May 1961:Do you approve of disapprove of what the freedom riders are doing? Approve 22%, Disapprove 61%, No Opinion 18%
Do you think "sit-ins" are lunch counters, freedom buses and other demonstrations by Negroes will hurt or help the Negroes chances of being integrated in the South? Help 28%, Hurt 57%, No Opinion 16%
By far most common rebuttal to my tweet has been some version of the below:
@IAmUnrepentant Replying to @studentactivism: Violent protests vs. Non-violent. Need I say more?
The lunch counter sit-ins were nonviolent, the argument goes, and antifa is not. That's a bright-line distinction. No comparison. There's a few problems with that, though. First of all, not all lunch counter sit-ins were nonviolent. Let's take a look...
- High Point, NC. Feb 15, 1960. Fistfights outside sit-in. Local NAACP leader says protesters will continue to fight back. [screenshot of news story]
- Tampa, March 1, 1960. Fight breaks out between lunch counter sit-in demonstrators and opponents. [screenshot]
- Feb 16, 1960, Portsmouth, VA. Hundreds brawl after scuffle at lunch counter sit-in, wielding razors and hammers. [screenshot]
And this is just a snapshot of a month's coverage of the movement in the New York Times. There was plenty more. Today we see the lunch counter sit-ins as uniformly nonviolent. But they weren't, and they weren't seen that way at the time. So if your view is that any recourse to violence renders a protest movement illegitimate, you would have opposed the lunch counter sit-ins.
"But wait!" I hear you cry. "Those acts of violence took place outside the sit-ins. They didn't represent the values of the organizers." Well, there's some problems with that analysis, too. First, the sit-ins, like antifa, weren't a centrally coordinated, ideologically uniform, movement. Lots of people participated in sit-ins for lots of different reasons, with lots of different attitudes toward nonviolence. There wasn't any one "real" sit-in ideology, and there isn't any one "real" antifa approach. There's wide variation in each. If your view of antifa is "some of it is good, some bad, some makes me nervous," then you probably would have been down with the sit-ins. And here's another thing about the lunch counter sit-ins. A lot of people opposed them because they worried they'd *provoke* violence. Here's the Providence (RI) Journal, quoted in the Times in March 1960: [screenshot] These days we understand violence provoked by protest as the moral burden of those who commit it. But that idea was controversial in 1960.
Which brings us to a larger point. The idea that the line between good/bad protest is violence is, as a matter of conventional wisdom, NEW. In 1960, a lot of good, antiracist liberals hated the idea of protests that violated the law, or that put protesters at risk of harm. And beyond their moral objections, many saw such tactics as deeply counterproductive, likely to make things worse, not better. Here's Gov. LeRoy Collins of Florida, a critic of segregation, in 1960: [screenshot] Why did so many liberals see sit-ins as wrong in 1960? And why do their heirs see them as the apotheosis of productive protest now? Because their tactics worked. Because they won.
Okay. Let's go back to the tweet I started all this off with, and let me say a bit more about what I meant by it. Actually, let me start by saying what I DIDN'T mean by it, and what I didn't say, then or later. My position is not that all antifa tactics are good, or that antifa and the lunch counter sit-ins are morally indistinguishable. Antifa has a different center of gravity than the lunch counter sit-ins when it comes to violence. That difference is morally relevant. It is ABSOLUTELY possible to articulate a coherent moral position in favor of the sit-ins and in opposition to antifa. That is indisputable. But look at what I said in the first tweet: If you're REFLEXIVELY opposed to antifa now, you probably would have opposed the sit-ins then. Most Americans—most antiracist Americans, even—opposed the sit-ins in 1960. Why? Because sit-ins were a radical, confrontational tactic. If you REFLEXIVELY—that is, without study, without disaggregation, without weighing opposing views—oppose antifa now? Well, guess what? You're a person who, LIKE MOST PEOPLE, responds instinctively negatively to novel, radical tactics for achieving social change. And people who responded instinctively negatively to novel, radical tactics for achieving social change in 1960? Didn't support the sit-ins.
So what do I think about antifa? What's my position as a scholar of social movements and a supporter of radical action? Man, I don't know. I mean, I do know, sort of. I support putting your body on the line in defense of the defenseless, as antifa often does. I support responding emphatically to fascist violence and threats of violence. I believe in making bullies fear for their safety. Do I believe that sometimes it's necessary to punch a fascist before they punch someone else? Yeah. Am I wholly comfortable with that? No. Do I entirely trust what happens when you give someone a mask and a club and a sense of moral rectitude? Nope nope nope. Hell no. So where do I stand on antifa? Here: I'm working on it. I'm chewing on it. I'm learning and thinking. Do I support antifa? Tell me which antifa you mean. Tell me what they're doing. And then I'll tell you.
posted by chris24 at 7:37 AM on September 1, 2017 [164 favorites]
Mainstream media likes to report high-visibility group nonviolence, like marching with signs. As has been discussed at length, that doesn't cause visible immediate change, so they like to discount it. They don't talk about "post flyers at workplaces saying 'A Wannabe Nazi Works Here'" as nonviolent activism.
That's because the former fits into their neat "we've always done it this way, this is all we know" narrative. They have no imagination. (And/or, they're sticking with what they already know will sell eyeballs.)
posted by Melismata at 7:37 AM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
That's because the former fits into their neat "we've always done it this way, this is all we know" narrative. They have no imagination. (And/or, they're sticking with what they already know will sell eyeballs.)
posted by Melismata at 7:37 AM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Corrido de Donald Trump (El Donald de Alambre) por Johnny Chiflas y amigos.
The chorus is particularly catchy:
🎶 Vamos a bailar, vamos a bailar
el Donald de alambre! 💃🏽
Pinche Donald Trump, pinche Donald Trump
que chinga a su madre! 🎵
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:38 AM on September 1, 2017 [12 favorites]
The chorus is particularly catchy:
🎶 Vamos a bailar, vamos a bailar
el Donald de alambre! 💃🏽
Pinche Donald Trump, pinche Donald Trump
que chinga a su madre! 🎵
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:38 AM on September 1, 2017 [12 favorites]
BentFranklin - that's okay advice for white people, horrible advice for the overwhelming majority of POC. Either you're assuming everyone reading this is white, which is deeply myopic, or you're telling POC they should interact with people who don't think they're human, which is - at best -
offensive.
posted by AFABulous at 7:50 AM on September 1, 2017 [73 favorites]
offensive.
posted by AFABulous at 7:50 AM on September 1, 2017 [73 favorites]
Trump Aide Connected To 2006 Overseas Attack On US Marines
Waiting for the neural network or Markov chain thingy that completes the phrase "Trump aide connected to..."
posted by Room 641-A at 7:52 AM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Waiting for the neural network or Markov chain thingy that completes the phrase "Trump aide connected to..."
posted by Room 641-A at 7:52 AM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Eventually (it may take a long time) their hearts will be properly suffused with love.
My own mother distrusts Mexicans and voted for Donald Trump.
My father was Mexican-American. Her children are Mexican-American.
I was 35 years old by the time I realized she was only going to love the part of me that is white, by the time I realized that I cannot trust her, that she is not going to change no matter how long I kept killing myself trying to earn her love and respect.
This is beyond naivete into willful ignorance. Almost every conservative person in the US has someone in their lives who has tried at some point to be a better influence. The reason they are still racist after seeing Racism Is Bad messages literally everywhere for 40+ years is that it benefits them to be so and it doesn't matter how much other people love them if they don't love us as much as they love themselves.
posted by Sequence at 7:53 AM on September 1, 2017 [134 favorites]
My own mother distrusts Mexicans and voted for Donald Trump.
My father was Mexican-American. Her children are Mexican-American.
I was 35 years old by the time I realized she was only going to love the part of me that is white, by the time I realized that I cannot trust her, that she is not going to change no matter how long I kept killing myself trying to earn her love and respect.
This is beyond naivete into willful ignorance. Almost every conservative person in the US has someone in their lives who has tried at some point to be a better influence. The reason they are still racist after seeing Racism Is Bad messages literally everywhere for 40+ years is that it benefits them to be so and it doesn't matter how much other people love them if they don't love us as much as they love themselves.
posted by Sequence at 7:53 AM on September 1, 2017 [134 favorites]
I keep seeing criticism of the media as having no imagination. I don't think having no imagination is exactly right -- they keep imagining Trump is a normal president, despite copious evidence to the contrary (see NPR, for example).
They do love their narratives, but it's more about laziness, complacency, and cowardice.
posted by Gelatin at 7:54 AM on September 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
They do love their narratives, but it's more about laziness, complacency, and cowardice.
posted by Gelatin at 7:54 AM on September 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
Not just the White House and other departments in the Trump Administration, but the RNC is also hemmorhaging staffers.
Are these people quitting in disgust or are offices being purged of those who aren't true believers?
posted by Mental Wimp at 7:56 AM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Armstrong is the sixth staffer to leave the RNC in just over a month. That includes a handful of aides in the committee’s data department who left recently amid a change in departmental leadership. The wave of departures, coming less than a year after the 2016 election, has surprised the tight-knit world of Republican operatives.posted by darkstar at 7:15 PM on August 31 [8 favorites +] [!]
Are these people quitting in disgust or are offices being purged of those who aren't true believers?
posted by Mental Wimp at 7:56 AM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Love a racist
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the two black bus drivers who got screamed at for being f*cking n-words for supposedly not letting a guy move from a broken bus to a functional bus at the depot at 6:30 am yesterday morning just need to give him a little more love from all of us. As do I.
He almost started out rational, then started yelling for a supervisor report as he put himself in front of a moving bus to load up his bike and the switched mid scream request to invective.
This scene is from a neighborhood bus/train transfer station, my neighborhood so likely a neighbor. Not a 'down the street, owns a house' person like me if they're using bus and bike early in the morning, but still a neighbor. I was dropping off a pool full of people headed to school on a train and bus combo, the same combo I'll take if I pick up some work at a county office. *fingers crossed*
posted by tilde at 7:56 AM on September 1, 2017 [12 favorites]
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the two black bus drivers who got screamed at for being f*cking n-words for supposedly not letting a guy move from a broken bus to a functional bus at the depot at 6:30 am yesterday morning just need to give him a little more love from all of us. As do I.
He almost started out rational, then started yelling for a supervisor report as he put himself in front of a moving bus to load up his bike and the switched mid scream request to invective.
This scene is from a neighborhood bus/train transfer station, my neighborhood so likely a neighbor. Not a 'down the street, owns a house' person like me if they're using bus and bike early in the morning, but still a neighbor. I was dropping off a pool full of people headed to school on a train and bus combo, the same combo I'll take if I pick up some work at a county office. *fingers crossed*
posted by tilde at 7:56 AM on September 1, 2017 [12 favorites]
chris24, yes, it's also important to remember that capital-A Antifa is essentially a media construct that exists to clarify the sides of the symmetric framing in which it is invoked. And I did not draw that distinction in my recent comments, so thank you.
posted by perspicio at 7:58 AM on September 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by perspicio at 7:58 AM on September 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
I have long believed that the only way to cure racism is to love a racist. That's right, you heard me, LOVE A RACIST. ... This is what Jesus would do.
I am not Christian.
I can understand, and even somewhat agree with "convert the racists by making damn sure they are part of your community; break bread with them; work to make them connected with people who don't agree with their bigoted and bullying ideals." But Jesus has nothing to do with my motivation, and sending a message of "here's how we can fix this: Everyone act like (good) white Christians!" is not helpful to a lot of us.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 7:59 AM on September 1, 2017 [27 favorites]
I am not Christian.
I can understand, and even somewhat agree with "convert the racists by making damn sure they are part of your community; break bread with them; work to make them connected with people who don't agree with their bigoted and bullying ideals." But Jesus has nothing to do with my motivation, and sending a message of "here's how we can fix this: Everyone act like (good) white Christians!" is not helpful to a lot of us.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 7:59 AM on September 1, 2017 [27 favorites]
that's okay advice for white people, horrible advice for the overwhelming majority of POC. Either you're assuming everyone reading this is white, which is deeply myopic, or you're telling POC they should interact with people who don't think they're human, which is - at best - offensive.
As a counterpoint, I refer you to the case of Heather McGhee and Garry Civitello.
posted by zakur at 8:00 AM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
As a counterpoint, I refer you to the case of Heather McGhee and Garry Civitello.
posted by zakur at 8:00 AM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
(I just realized that the reason the criticism of media as lacking imagination seemed familiar is likely because Melismata and I had pretty much the same exchange a couple of days ago.)
posted by Gelatin at 8:11 AM on September 1, 2017
posted by Gelatin at 8:11 AM on September 1, 2017
As a counterpoint, I refer you to the case of Heather McGhee and Garry Civitello.
Of course there's going to be exceptions and "reachable racists." But POC should do only whatever they feel comfortable with. Telling them they should engage with people who don't see them as people is a bridge too far.
posted by AFABulous at 8:11 AM on September 1, 2017 [43 favorites]
Of course there's going to be exceptions and "reachable racists." But POC should do only whatever they feel comfortable with. Telling them they should engage with people who don't see them as people is a bridge too far.
posted by AFABulous at 8:11 AM on September 1, 2017 [43 favorites]
Amidst all the differing opinions in regards to tactics, it's at least heartening to remember that we enjoy broad consensus with respect to our goals and objectives.
I can stand for creative nonviolence, and still support the goals and objectives of antifa, without contradiction, whether I align with all of the methods used to achieve them or not.
posted by perspicio at 8:12 AM on September 1, 2017 [14 favorites]
I can stand for creative nonviolence, and still support the goals and objectives of antifa, without contradiction, whether I align with all of the methods used to achieve them or not.
posted by perspicio at 8:12 AM on September 1, 2017 [14 favorites]
If it turns out that the entire Republican establishment is neck deep in this Russia bullshit, at least as far as receiving foreign donations... what then? The government is controlled by a criminal organization at that point? Like... what happens?
At the risk of reigniting mockery 'gainst my own person, I'll say it again: The DNC needs to bring suit in federal court to overturn this mockery of an election, vacating all offices implicated in Mueller's findings and either holding new elections or seating the non-Russia-colluding candidate with the largest number of votes for each position.
posted by Mental Wimp at 8:17 AM on September 1, 2017 [18 favorites]
At the risk of reigniting mockery 'gainst my own person, I'll say it again: The DNC needs to bring suit in federal court to overturn this mockery of an election, vacating all offices implicated in Mueller's findings and either holding new elections or seating the non-Russia-colluding candidate with the largest number of votes for each position.
posted by Mental Wimp at 8:17 AM on September 1, 2017 [18 favorites]
I have long believed that the only way to cure racism is to love a racist. That's right, you heard me, LOVE A RACIST. Do not punch. They are suffering from a lack of love and are reflecting that back into society. Their hearts are small, so you can only give them a little love at first, but it will widen their hole so you can pour more in later. Eventually (it may take a long time) their hearts will be properly suffused with love. This is what Jesus would do.
It's sort of interesting that you're quoting Jesus here. Christians are a majority religion in this country. They're a majority religion in nearly all Western countries. It's oh-so-easy to say "turn the other cheek" when you're in the majority. When you're not being terrorized, beaten up or killed for your beliefs. Christians have a great deal of privilege here. Invisible backpacks and all. What would a modern-day Jesus do? He'd kneel down and kiss the ground in gratitude, for the privilege he gets that comes from being a Christian. Because in this country, the worst thing he'd have to deal with is some clerk not saying "Merry Christmas" to him at the grocery store. Or being stopped by a court from forcing his religious beliefs on others. What a nightmare.
No one is tossing him out of this country solely because of his faith. The President isn't demonizing his religion and all of its adherents. And *millions* of people would rise to his defense if that were happening.
I'm Jewish. You know what hasn't ever been a workable solution for Jews? Showing racists "love" to get them to stop hating us. Antisemitism hasn't diminished one iota because we "turned the other cheek." Ever. As the saying goes, It's useless for the sheep to debate the merits of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of another opinion. Jews aren't sheep, but I trust you get the idea.
History is littered with the bodies of Jews and other minorities who let their guard down and tried to live in peace with their neighbors -- when their neighbors preached hatred, passed laws against their existence and culture and generally vilified them. No, thanks.
The onus should not be on Jews or Muslims or PoCX or women or any other minority to be nice and polite to people who hate us. To "forgive" or "show love." The responsibility for not preaching hate and acting like civilized human beings lies squarely on the shoulders of the white supremacists.
Anyone who preaches otherwise should take a good long look in the mirror and think about their own privilege. Society's gift, which allows them to think that way.
posted by zarq at 8:20 AM on September 1, 2017 [109 favorites]
It's sort of interesting that you're quoting Jesus here. Christians are a majority religion in this country. They're a majority religion in nearly all Western countries. It's oh-so-easy to say "turn the other cheek" when you're in the majority. When you're not being terrorized, beaten up or killed for your beliefs. Christians have a great deal of privilege here. Invisible backpacks and all. What would a modern-day Jesus do? He'd kneel down and kiss the ground in gratitude, for the privilege he gets that comes from being a Christian. Because in this country, the worst thing he'd have to deal with is some clerk not saying "Merry Christmas" to him at the grocery store. Or being stopped by a court from forcing his religious beliefs on others. What a nightmare.
No one is tossing him out of this country solely because of his faith. The President isn't demonizing his religion and all of its adherents. And *millions* of people would rise to his defense if that were happening.
I'm Jewish. You know what hasn't ever been a workable solution for Jews? Showing racists "love" to get them to stop hating us. Antisemitism hasn't diminished one iota because we "turned the other cheek." Ever. As the saying goes, It's useless for the sheep to debate the merits of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of another opinion. Jews aren't sheep, but I trust you get the idea.
History is littered with the bodies of Jews and other minorities who let their guard down and tried to live in peace with their neighbors -- when their neighbors preached hatred, passed laws against their existence and culture and generally vilified them. No, thanks.
The onus should not be on Jews or Muslims or PoCX or women or any other minority to be nice and polite to people who hate us. To "forgive" or "show love." The responsibility for not preaching hate and acting like civilized human beings lies squarely on the shoulders of the white supremacists.
Anyone who preaches otherwise should take a good long look in the mirror and think about their own privilege. Society's gift, which allows them to think that way.
posted by zarq at 8:20 AM on September 1, 2017 [109 favorites]
Because in this country, the worst thing he'd have to deal with is some clerk not saying "Merry Christmas" to him at the grocery store.
anyway they should be telling him "Happy Birthday"
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:24 AM on September 1, 2017 [32 favorites]
anyway they should be telling him "Happy Birthday"
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:24 AM on September 1, 2017 [32 favorites]
If your love is just laziness and support for hate the then fuck your love.
posted by Artw at 8:24 AM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:24 AM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
If your love is just laziness and support for hate the then fuck your love.
Good call - my love is rotten to the core.
posted by thelonius at 8:26 AM on September 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
Good call - my love is rotten to the core.
posted by thelonius at 8:26 AM on September 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
Hey y'all. Remember that lady who laughed at Jeff Sessions during his confirmation hearing and almost went to jail for it? Nine months later the DOJ will still not leave this woman alone.
Despite the criticism, the government has indicated it wants another shot at convicting Fairooz and plans to start over again. The whole process ― impaneling yet another jury, recalling witnesses, etc. ― will eat up several days of the court’s calendar. A trial date has been set for Nov. 13-14.posted by xyzzy at 8:28 AM on September 1, 2017 [55 favorites]
Mod note: One comment removed; BentFranklin, I need you to stop digging in on this, everybody else please move on.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:32 AM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:32 AM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
PoCX
Oops. Typo. That should be "PoC". I don't know what "PoCX" is, but am open to acronym suggestions.
--
BentFranklin: I only mentioned Jesus because of the incredibly un-Christian Christians that abound. I guess I should have said "This is what Jesus would REALLY do, not what the hypocritical Christians would do."
OK. That's fair.
posted by zarq at 8:32 AM on September 1, 2017
Oops. Typo. That should be "PoC". I don't know what "PoCX" is, but am open to acronym suggestions.
--
BentFranklin: I only mentioned Jesus because of the incredibly un-Christian Christians that abound. I guess I should have said "This is what Jesus would REALLY do, not what the hypocritical Christians would do."
OK. That's fair.
posted by zarq at 8:32 AM on September 1, 2017
Love a racist
I don't think this was posted here yet: I was a neo-Nazi. I know the cure for hate [G&M]
posted by mazola at 8:34 AM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
I don't think this was posted here yet: I was a neo-Nazi. I know the cure for hate [G&M]
posted by mazola at 8:34 AM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
xyzzy: Despite the criticism, the government has indicated it wants another shot at convicting Fairooz and plans to start over again. The whole process ― impaneling yet another jury, recalling witnesses, etc. ― will eat up several days of the court’s calendar. A trial date has been set for Nov. 13-14.
That's right - the DOJ is saying that laughing at little Jeffy Sessions is really important to them, financially and in terms of person-hours.
So, is this the fabled "running the government like a business" that I keep hearing people talk about w/r/t Trump? Oh, right - it's a Trump business, where petty personal issues become the focus, instead of, you know, getting shit done.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:34 AM on September 1, 2017 [48 favorites]
That's right - the DOJ is saying that laughing at little Jeffy Sessions is really important to them, financially and in terms of person-hours.
So, is this the fabled "running the government like a business" that I keep hearing people talk about w/r/t Trump? Oh, right - it's a Trump business, where petty personal issues become the focus, instead of, you know, getting shit done.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:34 AM on September 1, 2017 [48 favorites]
I am late in responding to this, but I think it's egregiously wrongheaded to imply that non-violent resistance is a sign of "physical cowardice." But I'll have to check with John Lewis about that.
Seriously. There are old people still in wheelchairs from Freedom Ride beatings they took.
posted by thelonius at 8:35 AM on September 1, 2017 [24 favorites]
Seriously. There are old people still in wheelchairs from Freedom Ride beatings they took.
posted by thelonius at 8:35 AM on September 1, 2017 [24 favorites]
I have long believed that the only way to cure racism is to love a racist.
You're not wrong that loving a racist can occasionally slowly, slowly, slowly, slowly change their beliefs over time. Where I think you err is that you assume
we don't already love racists. We do, because many of them are our family, our friends, our lovers, our children. And every time we engage with them, it chokes us. It chokes us to love people who hate us, even if they only hate us a little, even if they insist we're the only ones they don't hate.
It is hard, and awful, and we're already doing it and not receiving much reward. This is not the One Magic Trick To Defeat Nazis.
posted by corb at 8:35 AM on September 1, 2017 [71 favorites]
You're not wrong that loving a racist can occasionally slowly, slowly, slowly, slowly change their beliefs over time. Where I think you err is that you assume
we don't already love racists. We do, because many of them are our family, our friends, our lovers, our children. And every time we engage with them, it chokes us. It chokes us to love people who hate us, even if they only hate us a little, even if they insist we're the only ones they don't hate.
It is hard, and awful, and we're already doing it and not receiving much reward. This is not the One Magic Trick To Defeat Nazis.
posted by corb at 8:35 AM on September 1, 2017 [71 favorites]
Yeah, I grew up marginally Catholic. The "forgiveness at all costs and at any risk" mindset was clearly unhealthy when I was a kid and it hasn't gotten any cuter as I've grown up.
Love and openness and kindness can cure a lot, but somebody has to be open to that first. Racial slurs and Confederate flags aren't cries for help. They're demonstrations of strength. They come from a pathetic place, but you're not gonna cure someone of a lifetime of bullshit propaganda and brainwashing with some hugs and patient conversation. Pushing others to give out those hugs is only going to leave them vulnerable to further abuse from the racist.
And it is absolute bullshit to look to people of color, who already have to endure and suffer so much, and then tell them, "The way to fix this is to suffer more."
Those guys with the Confederate flags and the Pepe memes already found the appreciation they're looking for from their fellow racists. You're not gonna fix that with hugs.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:35 AM on September 1, 2017 [47 favorites]
Love and openness and kindness can cure a lot, but somebody has to be open to that first. Racial slurs and Confederate flags aren't cries for help. They're demonstrations of strength. They come from a pathetic place, but you're not gonna cure someone of a lifetime of bullshit propaganda and brainwashing with some hugs and patient conversation. Pushing others to give out those hugs is only going to leave them vulnerable to further abuse from the racist.
And it is absolute bullshit to look to people of color, who already have to endure and suffer so much, and then tell them, "The way to fix this is to suffer more."
Those guys with the Confederate flags and the Pepe memes already found the appreciation they're looking for from their fellow racists. You're not gonna fix that with hugs.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:35 AM on September 1, 2017 [47 favorites]
Could there maybe, possibly be a world where loving a racist, hating a racist, employing nonviolence, employing violence, resisting, revolting, working through the system, working outside of the system, addressing specific issues, and addressing broader questions could all be viable tactics, depending on the situation and who's involved?
posted by Rykey at 8:36 AM on September 1, 2017 [52 favorites]
posted by Rykey at 8:36 AM on September 1, 2017 [52 favorites]
Yeah, it's called anarchist organizing. "I think this would work better." "Okay, have fun, let us know how it goes."
Anarchists are the unintentional scientists of political organizing.
posted by corb at 8:39 AM on September 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
Anarchists are the unintentional scientists of political organizing.
posted by corb at 8:39 AM on September 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
I can stand for creative nonviolence, and still support the goals and objectives of antifa, without contradiction, whether I align with all of the methods used to achieve them or not.
My belief is that I meet Peace with Peace, but someone throws down violence, that's their choice and I'm not a Christian, so I'll stand my ground.
posted by mikelieman at 8:43 AM on September 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
My belief is that I meet Peace with Peace, but someone throws down violence, that's their choice and I'm not a Christian, so I'll stand my ground.
posted by mikelieman at 8:43 AM on September 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
If somebody tells you they've devised a solution to any given major social problem, ask them if their solution requires that A) everybody do something or B) everybody stop doing something. If they say yes, you can tell them to shut up.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:44 AM on September 1, 2017 [51 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:44 AM on September 1, 2017 [51 favorites]
Not abusing the edit-window.
Not in a George Zimmerman way, but rather a Gandalf, "YOU SHALL NOT PASS" way...
posted by mikelieman at 8:45 AM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
Not in a George Zimmerman way, but rather a Gandalf, "YOU SHALL NOT PASS" way...
posted by mikelieman at 8:45 AM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
Relevant to yesterday's discussion about the opioid crisis: Sorry, Hillbilly Heroin Addicts, Conservatives Are Moving On.
So up till this week I was still of the impression that liberals were supposed to feel ashamed that our lack of sympathy for the poor, drug-addicted common clay in Oatmeal, Nebraska had driven them into the arms of Trump. But the situation seems to be shifting: Now the opioid problem is not really such a big deal, and to the extent that it is, it's the fault of Obamacare. [...]posted by tonycpsu at 8:55 AM on September 1, 2017 [24 favorites]
Why's this happening now? I suspect it's this: though he's been lavishing monosyllabic praise on his herkimer-jerkimer supporters, with his policies Trump's actually been shitting on them -- his alleged big job "wins" at places like Carrier have turned out to be bullshit, and he's going to pay for their beloved Wall with their own tax dollars. And though he's been slinging boob bait as best he can, cheering for Confederates and Nazis and yelling at the press, his poll numbers suggest even some of the gomers have ceased to buy it and are abandoning him.
So I believe Trump is cutting bait. His grand promises having come to naught, he's denying that they were ever needed in the first place -- if your sons and daughters are on drugs, that's Obama's fault, in any case don't come crying to me about it! He figures he can afford it -- he can always win them back by fanning some more racial flames -- or, if that fails, starting a war.
As for the White Working Class Whisperers, I predict they'll play along, especially since the alternative is finding a new shtick.
I think if we continue to create jobs at levels that I'm creating jobs, I think that's going to have a tremendously positive impact on race relations.
Wage growth remained stalled in August
Average hourly private-sector earnings rose 2.5 percent in August over the previous year, the Labor Department reported on Friday, the same as in July. The economy added 156,000 jobs in August, down from 189, 000 in July.posted by kirkaracha at 8:55 AM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think there's a big big difference between "love and try to reach kids who seem to be at risk for becoming marginalized and radicalized, even if they are starting to experiment with being kind of shitty" and "love your local grownass adult Nazi cell."
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:57 AM on September 1, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:57 AM on September 1, 2017 [32 favorites]
Interpersonal racism and institutional racism are two different things. We can't wait for "love" to end the former and hope that it fixes the latter. Anyone who feels safe to do so should confront interpersonal racism when possible; we should work to end it, certainly. But we need to commit to fixing institutional racism regardless of whether it's possible to end interpersonal racism. The systems will continue to be racist even if the actors in it no longer are.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:04 AM on September 1, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 9:04 AM on September 1, 2017 [20 favorites]
Stand Your Ground: What's good for the goose-stepper is good for the Gandalfer?
posted by perspicio at 9:07 AM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by perspicio at 9:07 AM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
Wage growth remained stalled in August
And 20% fewer jobs are being created.
New jobs, February to August:
2015 1.5 million
2016 1.4 million
2017 1.2 million
posted by chris24 at 9:17 AM on September 1, 2017 [15 favorites]
And 20% fewer jobs are being created.
New jobs, February to August:
2015 1.5 million
2016 1.4 million
2017 1.2 million
posted by chris24 at 9:17 AM on September 1, 2017 [15 favorites]
Yeah, it's called anarchist organizing. "I think this would work better." "Okay, have fun, let us know how it goes."
In my experience, not all of the people who call themselves anarchists are actually that laissez-faire. (Hence my deliberate use of the phrasing "who call themselves anarchists", as I suspect that there may be some misunderstanding on their own parts....)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:18 AM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
In my experience, not all of the people who call themselves anarchists are actually that laissez-faire. (Hence my deliberate use of the phrasing "who call themselves anarchists", as I suspect that there may be some misunderstanding on their own parts....)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:18 AM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Libby Anne examines How Southern Democrats Became Republicans: A Case Study of Carroll County, Mississippi. This piece is well worth reading because she examines election data and policy changes to lay out how the Party of Lincoln became the party of the segregationist, man-who-initiated-a-sexual-relationship-with-a-child* Strom Thurmond, the hateful, serial sexual assaulter Donald Trump, the KKK-Grand Pisshead David Duke, the coward-racist-enablers Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell, and white terrorist sympathizer Ronald Reagan**.
**Ronald Reagan gave an appalling speech at the Neshoba County Fair in Mississippi, in which he threw his lot in the with people pissed off that the federal government had tried to obtain justice for three civil rights workers--James Chaney, Andrew Goodman, and Mickey Schwerner--who were registering new African-American voters and then lynched by the Klan. Reagan was a disgusting man who went on to use his position as President to inflict pain on communities of color.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:20 AM on September 1, 2017 [52 favorites]
While the Republican Party Platform of 1960 supported school desegregation, the Republican Party Platform of 1964 called for resisting “efforts which endanger local control of schools” and opposed “the abandonment of neighborhood schools, for reasons of race,” a reference to school busing and other efforts to combat the resegregation of public schools through white flight. Indeed, the platform referred to such efforts as “inverse discrimination.” The Democratic Party Platform of 1964, meanwhile, condemned the Ku Klux Klan. The parties were changing, and and that change was not mere window dressing.*At age 22, Strom Thurmond initiated a sexual relationship with Carrie Butler, who was 16 and an African-American servant of his family. He impregnated her and never publicly acknowledged his natural daughter Essie Mae Washington-Williams. I am hesitant to use the phrasing 'child rapist' with regard to Thurmond, only because I am not sure how Ms. Butler would have characterized the relationship, but I'd be shocked if anyone here suggested that enthusiastic consent was truly possible in that situation.
In the South, participation in the Democratic Party had long been limited to white voters. In 1964, civil rights activists organized to change this, taking their complaints to the national Democratic Party leadership. In response, President Lyndon B. Johnson, a Democrat, passed the Voting Rights Act of 1965, re-enfranchizing African Americans after nearly a century. Southern politicians like Strom Thurmond and Jesse Helms, longterm segregationists, found that they were more comfortable in a Republican Party that increasingly stood for states’ rights and local control, ideas that were often code for things like ending federal oversight of school desegregation.
In some sense, what played out was a cycle that fed on itself and ended only when the two groups—African Americans and southern whites—had fully switched parties. But these groups would never have changed allegiances if the parties themselves had not changed, courting this group or that and shaped by one or the other in return.
**Ronald Reagan gave an appalling speech at the Neshoba County Fair in Mississippi, in which he threw his lot in the with people pissed off that the federal government had tried to obtain justice for three civil rights workers--James Chaney, Andrew Goodman, and Mickey Schwerner--who were registering new African-American voters and then lynched by the Klan. Reagan was a disgusting man who went on to use his position as President to inflict pain on communities of color.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:20 AM on September 1, 2017 [52 favorites]
Paul Ryan and Orrin Hatch have come out with statements urging Trump to not rescind DACA.
Ryan:
Ryan:
"I actually don't think he should do that. I believe that this is something Congress has to fix. Let me back up for a second: President Obama did not have the legislative authority to do what he did. You can't as an executive write law out of thin air, and so that's very, very clear and we've made that very clear. Having said all of that there are people who are in limbo. These are kids who know no other country, who were brought here by their parents and don't know another home. And so I really do believe there needs to be a legislative solution, that's one that we're working on, and I think we want to give people piece of mind. And so I've had plenty of conversations with the White House about this issue. And I think the president as well has mentioned that he wants to have a humane solution to this problem, and I think that's something that we in Congress are working on and need to deliver on."Hatch:
I've urged the President not to rescind DACA, an action that would further complicate a system in serious need of a permanent, legislative solution. Like the President, I've long advocated for tougher enforcement of our existing immigration laws. But we also need a workable, permanent solution for individuals who entered our country unlawfully as children through no fault of their own and who have built their lives here. And that solution must come from Congress.posted by chris24 at 9:24 AM on September 1, 2017 [15 favorites]
Over the coming months, I'll be working closely with my colleagues in Congress and with the administration to pass meaningful immigration reform that will secure our borders, provide a workable path forward for the Dreamer population, and ensure that employers have access to the high-skilled workers they need to succeed in our technology-driven economy.
Caddell Construction Co., Montgomery, Ala.; Fisher Sand & Gravel Co., Tempe, Ariz.; Texas Sterling Construction Co., Houston, Texas; W.G. Yates & Sons Construction Co.; Philadelphia, Miss.
From the USA Today article linked up thread, these are the four companies building prototype walls.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 9:25 AM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
From the USA Today article linked up thread, these are the four companies building prototype walls.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 9:25 AM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Vox: Meet antifa’s self-appointed spokesperson
posted by tonycpsu at 9:26 AM on September 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 9:26 AM on September 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
This is more or less how I expect Trump's review of the prototype walls will go down.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:28 AM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:28 AM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
Fisher Sand and Gravel:
Former exec pleads guilty to tax fraud
Settlement in sex discrimination suit
Fined by EPA
Separate fine for air quality
They seem nice.
I bet they're all nice.
(I didn't even have to *work* to find that. )
posted by A Terrible Llama at 9:29 AM on September 1, 2017 [17 favorites]
Former exec pleads guilty to tax fraud
Settlement in sex discrimination suit
Fined by EPA
Separate fine for air quality
They seem nice.
I bet they're all nice.
(I didn't even have to *work* to find that. )
posted by A Terrible Llama at 9:29 AM on September 1, 2017 [17 favorites]
a Republican Party that increasingly stood for states’ rights and local control, ideas that were often code for things like ending federal oversight of school desegregation.
What, the Republicans have been using code names for racist hate this whole time??
posted by petebest at 9:30 AM on September 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
What, the Republicans have been using code names for racist hate this whole time??
posted by petebest at 9:30 AM on September 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
Caddell's criminal fraud settlement
...for pete's sake it's like they put out a call for thugs and ninnies and criminals....
Well, I guess they *did* put out a call for thugs and ninnies and criminals.
Well played, I guess.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 9:32 AM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
...for pete's sake it's like they put out a call for thugs and ninnies and criminals....
Well, I guess they *did* put out a call for thugs and ninnies and criminals.
Well played, I guess.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 9:32 AM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
NYT is reporting that Mueller has a draft of a letter, written by Stephen Miller with the president, ultimately rejected by Don McGahn on the Comey firing . Im sure there cant possibly be anything incriminating in that letter. . .
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 9:35 AM on September 1, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 9:35 AM on September 1, 2017 [18 favorites]
I'm nervous for a news drop just before the 3-day weekend.
posted by armacy at 9:36 AM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by armacy at 9:36 AM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Exclusive: Lee Atwater’s Infamous 1981 Interview on the Southern Strategy
You start out in 1954 by saying, “Nigger, nigger, nigger.” By 1968 you can’t say “nigger”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “Nigger, nigger.”posted by kirkaracha at 9:38 AM on September 1, 2017 [20 favorites]
antifa’s self-appointed spokesperson
Are they a cop?
posted by Artw at 9:41 AM on September 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
Are they a cop?
posted by Artw at 9:41 AM on September 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
NYT is reporting that Mueller has a draft of a letter, written by Stephen Miller with the president, ultimately rejected by Don McGahn on the Comey firing . Im sure there cant possibly be anything incriminating in that letter. . .
Link to the article, by Michael S. Schmidt and Maggie Haberman "Mueller Has Early Draft of Trump Letter Giving Reasons for Firing Comey".
posted by papercrane at 9:41 AM on September 1, 2017 [11 favorites]
Question for people in the know re construction, and government bids: How does the $500,000 for a 30-foot section of the protoype wall scale to the actual job of building the entire wall as Trump promised it originally (solid, uninterrupted, impenetrable, really tall, across the entire US-Mexico border)? Because to me, at that rate, a wall 1954 miles long comes out to about $172 billion dollars—and that's not counting clearing the land and all the other considerations that would add cost.
TL;DR: I'm sure comparing the cost of the wall prototypes to the actual wall is apples and oranges, but would the actual wall be cheaper or more expensive than $500,000 per 30 feet?
posted by Rykey at 9:41 AM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
TL;DR: I'm sure comparing the cost of the wall prototypes to the actual wall is apples and oranges, but would the actual wall be cheaper or more expensive than $500,000 per 30 feet?
posted by Rykey at 9:41 AM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
For anyone wanting to go down the "How to cure racism" path, may I suggest you visit this recent post? I'm pretty sure you can find all your "does loving/hating a racist work?" positions argued there.
posted by greermahoney at 9:41 AM on September 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by greermahoney at 9:41 AM on September 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
From the NY Time article:
Mr. Comey was fired on May 9.
Over one million years ago.
posted by Artw at 9:45 AM on September 1, 2017 [48 favorites]
Mr. Comey was fired on May 9.
Over one million years ago.
posted by Artw at 9:45 AM on September 1, 2017 [48 favorites]
A prototype is always going to be more expensive than the real thing, but boy is that a fuckload of pork, and who knows with a sufficiently trump aligned contractor maybe the actual wall will be porkier?
posted by Artw at 9:47 AM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 9:47 AM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
TL;DR: I'm sure comparing the cost of the wall prototypes to the actual wall is apples and oranges, but would the actual wall be cheaper or more expensive than $500,000 per 30 feet?
Cheaper. Like in medicine. The second pill costs $1. The first costs $1,000,000.
Or in anything. I did a short sample web page for a guy in a head-to-head competition against other writers. Billed $250 for it. Doing the whole site for something like $2500.
The costs to build a sample home are closer to the "retail" price it sells for; you're only hiring a few guys for a few weeks to do a one-off. When you sell all the houses, you hire them back and build 40-50 over the course of a few months and your cost per unit goes down in bulk. Same with sections of wall.
On Preview: What artw said too.
posted by tilde at 9:48 AM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Cheaper. Like in medicine. The second pill costs $1. The first costs $1,000,000.
Or in anything. I did a short sample web page for a guy in a head-to-head competition against other writers. Billed $250 for it. Doing the whole site for something like $2500.
The costs to build a sample home are closer to the "retail" price it sells for; you're only hiring a few guys for a few weeks to do a one-off. When you sell all the houses, you hire them back and build 40-50 over the course of a few months and your cost per unit goes down in bulk. Same with sections of wall.
On Preview: What artw said too.
posted by tilde at 9:48 AM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
a sufficiently trump aligned contractor
I dunno...aren't all the contractors pissed at him for not paying his bills?
posted by Melismata at 9:49 AM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
I dunno...aren't all the contractors pissed at him for not paying his bills?
posted by Melismata at 9:49 AM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Trump is taking his tax reform road show to North Dakota, where he's sure to explicitly attack sitting Democratic Senator Hietkamp just like he did Mcaskill in Missouri.
It's illegal to pay for a campaign trip with official government funds.
But we no longer have the rule of law in America, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:49 AM on September 1, 2017 [44 favorites]
It's illegal to pay for a campaign trip with official government funds.
But we no longer have the rule of law in America, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:49 AM on September 1, 2017 [44 favorites]
a sufficiently trump aligned contractor
I dunno...aren't all the contractors pissed at him for not paying his bills?
He's not paying them with his own money ... then again, given how much money is really borrowed from banks, when is he ever paying out 'his' money.
Maybe screwing all contractors out of payments is his attempt at budget cuts and deficit reduction.
Like not spending money allocated for advertising Obama care -- he's 'being budget concious' and 'saving the taxpayers money'.
posted by tilde at 9:52 AM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
I dunno...aren't all the contractors pissed at him for not paying his bills?
He's not paying them with his own money ... then again, given how much money is really borrowed from banks, when is he ever paying out 'his' money.
Maybe screwing all contractors out of payments is his attempt at budget cuts and deficit reduction.
Like not spending money allocated for advertising Obama care -- he's 'being budget concious' and 'saving the taxpayers money'.
posted by tilde at 9:52 AM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Sorry, I should have been more clear (although maybe the answer's the same).
Would the actual wall—with all the costs involved, like clearing and grading the land, building the roads to get construction vehicles out there, etc.—be cheaper or more expensive than $500,000 per 30-foot section?
posted by Rykey at 9:53 AM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Would the actual wall—with all the costs involved, like clearing and grading the land, building the roads to get construction vehicles out there, etc.—be cheaper or more expensive than $500,000 per 30-foot section?
posted by Rykey at 9:53 AM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
"It's been a long couple of years these last few months" is increasingly my default state. So exhausted.
posted by lazaruslong at 9:56 AM on September 1, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by lazaruslong at 9:56 AM on September 1, 2017 [21 favorites]
Do we know the names of the companies that were awarded the wall prototype contracts? We should start working on naming and shaming them wherever they go. Time to break out the giant inflatable rat.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:57 AM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 9:57 AM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
I dunno...aren't all the contractors pissed at him for not paying his bills?
He won't be paying their bills; we taxpayers will.
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:58 AM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
He won't be paying their bills; we taxpayers will.
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:58 AM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Do we know the names of the companies that were awarded the wall prototype contracts?
Yes we do.
posted by Too-Ticky at 9:59 AM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yes we do.
posted by Too-Ticky at 9:59 AM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
I dunno...aren't all the contractors pissed at him for not paying his bills?
The wall list seems like a special assortment of contractors. Sterling Texas has multiple corporate entities. (One of them has a bullet point listed as specializing in 'crushing'; planning on adding it to my resume.)
But also presumably it's not Trump paying them but the US government. Trump doesn't sign contracts personally. But these companies seem like the sort of mistake you make when you hire a contractor sight unseen and he shows up at your house wearing a ski mask and carrying a club.
There is no money for this, though, it's a nightmare on a hundred levels, you can kind of see how the court battles will line up, and it kind of seems like they're spending millions to let Trump play with Legos to pacify him and/or his 'base' because...I dunno, it keeps him from bragging on how he peed on a prostitute on Twitter or whatever batshit thing he's going to do in the four hours remaining of the east coast workday.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 9:59 AM on September 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
The wall list seems like a special assortment of contractors. Sterling Texas has multiple corporate entities. (One of them has a bullet point listed as specializing in 'crushing'; planning on adding it to my resume.)
But also presumably it's not Trump paying them but the US government. Trump doesn't sign contracts personally. But these companies seem like the sort of mistake you make when you hire a contractor sight unseen and he shows up at your house wearing a ski mask and carrying a club.
There is no money for this, though, it's a nightmare on a hundred levels, you can kind of see how the court battles will line up, and it kind of seems like they're spending millions to let Trump play with Legos to pacify him and/or his 'base' because...I dunno, it keeps him from bragging on how he peed on a prostitute on Twitter or whatever batshit thing he's going to do in the four hours remaining of the east coast workday.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 9:59 AM on September 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
Welp, in the "we don't pay contractors" vein, I was just notified yesterday that our small government consulting firm might need to do drastic cuts/downsizing starting in Oct, because that's when the billable work dries up, and the agencies we work for have much less money for needed projects, and no direction for new projects. A few months ago, a big project that was supposed to last us for multiple years was cut. We have proposals out, but if everyone is trying to sit at a smaller table, it's going to be bad. Business tends to slow down during republican administrations, but the end of year tends to be bonanza of RFPs and immediate work, and there is almost nothing. :/
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 10:07 AM on September 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 10:07 AM on September 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
Vox: Meet antifa’s self-appointed spokesperson
Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.
Are they a cop?
What? Jenkins seems like a level-headed, dedicated activist. Why the snark?
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:13 AM on September 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.
Are they a cop?
What? Jenkins seems like a level-headed, dedicated activist. Why the snark?
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:13 AM on September 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
I only mentioned Jesus because of the incredibly un-Christian Christians that abound.
As a non-Christian, it's not my job to sort out who the "real Christians" are. If they're running around with the label, and they fit the most objectively-identifiable traits - uses Bible as holy book, claims that Jesus brings salvation - I'm going to assume they're "real Christians," and my opinions about "what Christians believe and do" is going to be influenced by them.
I will consider "but real Christians don't act like that!" when those people aren't in charge of major portions of the government. Until then, I have no reason to believe the president isn't a "real Christian" or that his views aren't "real Christian values" - after all, plenty of other "real Christians" voted for him; plenty of churches actively support him; there's a whole swarm of Christian ministers/pastors devoted to bringing their religion to the White House.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:15 AM on September 1, 2017 [29 favorites]
As a non-Christian, it's not my job to sort out who the "real Christians" are. If they're running around with the label, and they fit the most objectively-identifiable traits - uses Bible as holy book, claims that Jesus brings salvation - I'm going to assume they're "real Christians," and my opinions about "what Christians believe and do" is going to be influenced by them.
I will consider "but real Christians don't act like that!" when those people aren't in charge of major portions of the government. Until then, I have no reason to believe the president isn't a "real Christian" or that his views aren't "real Christian values" - after all, plenty of other "real Christians" voted for him; plenty of churches actively support him; there's a whole swarm of Christian ministers/pastors devoted to bringing their religion to the White House.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:15 AM on September 1, 2017 [29 favorites]
Wait a second. You're telling me that the letter Trump actually sent, the one that said "While I greatly appreciate you informing me, on three separate occasions, that I am not under investigation," that's the sanitized lawyer-approved one? And he had Stephen Miller write the real one? That thing has to be a disaster.
posted by zachlipton at 10:16 AM on September 1, 2017 [55 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 10:16 AM on September 1, 2017 [55 favorites]
@HallieJackson: #DACA decision: will come sometime today or over the weekend, @POTUS says in Oval Office (via pool)
What, is he trying to maximize the ratings of this one too? What a despicably cruel way to treat hundreds of thousands of people and their families.
posted by zachlipton at 10:18 AM on September 1, 2017 [20 favorites]
What, is he trying to maximize the ratings of this one too? What a despicably cruel way to treat hundreds of thousands of people and their families.
posted by zachlipton at 10:18 AM on September 1, 2017 [20 favorites]
I'd love to see the rejected drafts of the Pickle letter.
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:19 AM on September 1, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:19 AM on September 1, 2017 [22 favorites]
Paul Ryan: Let me back up for a second: President Obama did not have the legislative authority to do what he did. You can't as an executive write law out of thin air, and so that's very, very clear and we've made that very clear.
Yeah, by pointedly not budgeting enough money to deport all the immigrants in the country, thus requiring the Executive to prioritize how the existing resources are spent. Which, as we see here, allows Ryan to distance himself from responsibility for a situation he explicitly helped created, while simultaneously implying he can deliver a solution I strongly doubt he can, even if he sincerely (ha!) intends to.
posted by Gelatin at 10:20 AM on September 1, 2017 [12 favorites]
Yeah, by pointedly not budgeting enough money to deport all the immigrants in the country, thus requiring the Executive to prioritize how the existing resources are spent. Which, as we see here, allows Ryan to distance himself from responsibility for a situation he explicitly helped created, while simultaneously implying he can deliver a solution I strongly doubt he can, even if he sincerely (ha!) intends to.
posted by Gelatin at 10:20 AM on September 1, 2017 [12 favorites]
Estimates for the new wall-as-whole range from $8 billion to $400 billion, with many estimates falling around $10 to $25 billion.
Pretty sure you meant $8 billion to $40 billion, that's what the link says at least.
posted by papercrane at 10:27 AM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Pretty sure you meant $8 billion to $40 billion, that's what the link says at least.
posted by papercrane at 10:27 AM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
From that Kenya-overturns-corrupted-election link above:
RynheartTheReluctant @TheRynheart 4h4 hours ago
Cambridge Analytica, has a parent Co.: SCL, which has ties to Alfa Bank, although it's several steps removed.
Alfa Bank, eh? Hm. Must be, like, a coincidence. If true.
posted by petebest at 10:29 AM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
RynheartTheReluctant @TheRynheart 4h4 hours ago
Cambridge Analytica, has a parent Co.: SCL, which has ties to Alfa Bank, although it's several steps removed.
Alfa Bank, eh? Hm. Must be, like, a coincidence. If true.
posted by petebest at 10:29 AM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
Regarding DACA: Insofar as anyone can predict the actions of a chaos agent like Trump, immigration attorneys nationwide expect him to abolish DACA any day now. This will certainly mean that no new cases or applications for renewal will be accepted, but there are enough good people at the various USCIS service centers (don't confuse these usually well-meaning, always overworked, and sometimes hapless desk workers with the monsters at ICE) that cases already in process will probably not be stopped mid-stream. Trump doesn't have the support or wherewithal to make that happen. Not to mention the fact that the ACLU and other agencies already have lawsuits prepared and ready to be filed within hours of anything happening.
If you are currently working under DACA, or are the employer of anyone working under DACA, find a good immigration lawyer, but don't panic yet.
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:31 AM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
If you are currently working under DACA, or are the employer of anyone working under DACA, find a good immigration lawyer, but don't panic yet.
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:31 AM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
What, is he trying to maximize the ratings of this one too?
Irma won't be anywhere near land this weekend, if that's what you're thinking
posted by thelonius at 10:33 AM on September 1, 2017
If DACA Ends (PDF) - guide from the Immigrant Legal Resource Center for people currently here under DACA.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:54 AM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:54 AM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
Josh Marshall (TPM) considers Stephen Miller, James Comey and the Mystery of the Secret Hour
With the news that Robert Mueller has a copy of the original letter on James Comey’s firing written by Trump aide Stephen Miller and Trump himself, we need to return to the great mystery of that lost hour on the tarmac on Air Force One.posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:57 AM on September 1, 2017 [13 favorites]
What am I talking about? Well, with a touch of dramatic flair I’m talking about this odd and increasingly odd over time mystery about what was happening the night President Trump came back from his Bedminster villa after a weekend of stewing about James Comey and then fired Comey 36 hours later. [...]
Not a great deal got made of this after that evening. That’s understandable and largely correct. Any number of things could have happened. Maybe they just wanted to finish a meeting. Maybe the President was eating or needed a bathroom break. It was only 45 minutes. Let me also clearly bound my own questions and speculations. I don’t think anything horrible or shocking happened in that 45 minutes. But given the oddity of the event and the fact that Trump returned to the White House and immediately put in process one of the most consequential decisions of his presidency – firing Comey – I think it is highly, highly likely that the two things are connected. As you can see from the pool report, Trump was traveling with what I would call five of his most aggressive and enabling advisers: Hope Hicks, Jared Kushner, KT McFarland, Stephen Miller and Dan Scavino. We know from subsequent reporting that Kushner was a major proponent, perhaps the most voluble proponent of firing Comey. I strongly suspect that the hold up was some on-going discussion, perhaps a heated discussion, of the decision to fire Comey.
Trump charges that Clinton email probe was ‘rigged,’ based on when Comey drafted statement about it
“Wow, looks like James B. Comey exonerated Hillary Clinton long before the investigation was over . . . and so much more,” Trump wrote in a morning tweet Friday. “A rigged system!”
. . . Grassley and Graham, though, suggested in their letter that discussion of Comey’s statement before the investigation was completed was improper.
“Conclusion first, fact-gathering second — that’s no way to run an investigation,” the senators wrote. “The FBI should be held to a higher standard than that. . .
1) So how's that FBI feud a-goin'?
2) diiiiiiiiiiiiiicks!
posted by petebest at 11:11 AM on September 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
“Wow, looks like James B. Comey exonerated Hillary Clinton long before the investigation was over . . . and so much more,” Trump wrote in a morning tweet Friday. “A rigged system!”
. . . Grassley and Graham, though, suggested in their letter that discussion of Comey’s statement before the investigation was completed was improper.
“Conclusion first, fact-gathering second — that’s no way to run an investigation,” the senators wrote. “The FBI should be held to a higher standard than that. . .
1) So how's that FBI feud a-goin'?
2) diiiiiiiiiiiiiicks!
posted by petebest at 11:11 AM on September 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
This is clearly how he'll responde to the prototype wall.
posted by TwoStride at 11:15 AM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by TwoStride at 11:15 AM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Once again, we must ask: Does Donald Trump know that Hillary Clinton is not the president?
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:16 AM on September 1, 2017 [38 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:16 AM on September 1, 2017 [38 favorites]
The whole thing is worth a read, but interesting to see some Rs start to acknowledge how the Southern Strategy and FOX/talk radio led them to this point where they have a problem with their voters and party, not just claiming Trump is an outlier not representative of the whole party.
JRubin - WaPo: Republicans won’t acknowledge Trump is a really bad person
JRubin - WaPo: Republicans won’t acknowledge Trump is a really bad person
You see, a very large percentage of Republicans refuse to acknowledge Trump’s overt bigotry and divisiveness — or any other glaring character flaws. It’s not unusual for those who voted for a candidate to refuse to confess to their error or the candidate’s flaws. Whatever side Trump is on and whatever defenses he raises, his cult follows.posted by chris24 at 11:23 AM on September 1, 2017 [39 favorites]
When it comes to Trump, there is, however, something besides just voter denial and loyalty going on. A very large percentage of Republicans are convinced that minorities have an advantage over whites in this country. By every statistical measure, we know that is false, yet a plurality (40 percent) of Republicans, 38 percent of conservatives and 40 percent of white evangelicals are convinced that whites are the victims in society. This matches other polling that shows Trump’s most loyal group — evangelicals — don’t see much prejudice against minorities, immigrants and gays, although they are quite convinced that Christianity and whites are under attack.
And that makes perfect sense. Trump’s core campaign message was about white grievance, as he sought to convince mostly working-class voters that their livelihood, their status and their cultural dominance were stolen from them by foreigners, “globalists,” elites and those who won’t say “Merry Christmas.” It’s only natural that the visceral connection that Trump made with them is hard to break. For these people, whenever Trump says or does something regarding minorities that others find horrifying, they see this as evidence that he is fighting for them and leveling the playing field (remember they think they’re the victims).
The Trump phenomenon, you see, is inextricably tied up with the white grievance mentality, born in the GOP’s “Southern strategy,” nurtured by talk radio and blasted for more than a decade by Fox News at a discrete group of voters who immerse themselves in the Fox-created news universe. These voters are convinced that they’ve been done wrong, and it’s the fault of people who don’t look or live the way they do. This is identity politics run rampant, and Trump has perfected it. But the good news is that an increasing majority of Americans don’t buy his act, don’t like it and don’t want the leader of the United States to be Archie Bunker reborn.
Random question: so, people (especially from New York) are blasting the Republicans who voted against Hurricane Sandy relief but are now about to vote in favor of Harvey relief, calling them hypocritical and all that (true of course). Is this a new thing to happen only after Obama Divided Everyone, or have politicians always been selfish about natural disaster relief and such? Asking because I can't tell if the media is making a Huge Deal about something that has always happened, or if it really is a Huge Deal. Thanks.
posted by Melismata at 11:24 AM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 11:24 AM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
This is clearly how he'll responde to the prototype wall.
I was picturing this.
posted by Behemoth at 11:25 AM on September 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
I was picturing this.
posted by Behemoth at 11:25 AM on September 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
“Wow, looks like James B. Comey exonerated Hillary Clinton long before the investigation was over . . . and so much more,” Trump wrote in a morning tweet Friday.“A rigged system!”
Whatever you do, Donald, please, please DO NOT keep tweeting your thoughts and feelings about the investigation. Why, you might trip up and say something that could get you in trouble!
posted by Rykey at 11:29 AM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Whatever you do, Donald, please, please DO NOT keep tweeting your thoughts and feelings about the investigation. Why, you might trip up and say something that could get you in trouble!
posted by Rykey at 11:29 AM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Republicans notoriously block federal disaster relief until they need help with tornadoes and hurricanes.
posted by xyzzy at 11:29 AM on September 1, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 11:29 AM on September 1, 2017 [30 favorites]
Thanks xyzzy!
posted by Melismata at 11:32 AM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Melismata at 11:32 AM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Lest they get the kind of credit that xyzzy's link almost gives Republicans for not substantially opposing Katrina relief, may everyone be reminded that child-rapist Dennis Hastert was once quoted as saying that spending federal money in NOLA didn't make sense and that most of it should have been bulldozed.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 11:37 AM on September 1, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 11:37 AM on September 1, 2017 [18 favorites]
Michael Grunwald has a long profile in Politico on Nick Mulvaney, Mick the Knife, and I'd like to highlight this bit:
In other news, the Senate Parliamentarian ruled that the authority to pass a health care bill with 51 votes under reconciliation ends September 30th (Republicans were trying to argue it should last longer). After that they would need a new budget and would have to start over again.
posted by zachlipton at 11:37 AM on September 1, 2017 [55 favorites]
“Look, this is my idea on how to reform Social Security,” the former South Carolina congressman began.That's an account of how the President of the United States was conned into throwing away a campaign promise he never meant in the first place because he has no idea how the government works.
“No!” the president replied. “I told people we wouldn’t do that. What’s next?”
“Well, here are some Medicare reforms,” Mulvaney said.
“No!” Trump repeated. “I’m not doing that.”
“OK, disability insurance.”
This was a clever twist. Mulvaney was talking about the Social Security Disability Insurance program, which, as its full name indicates, is part of Social Security. But Americans don’t tend to think of it as Social Security, and its 11 million beneficiaries are not the senior citizens who tend to support Trump.
“Tell me about that,” Trump replied.
“It’s welfare,” Mulvaney said.
“OK, we can fix welfare,” Trump declared.
In other news, the Senate Parliamentarian ruled that the authority to pass a health care bill with 51 votes under reconciliation ends September 30th (Republicans were trying to argue it should last longer). After that they would need a new budget and would have to start over again.
posted by zachlipton at 11:37 AM on September 1, 2017 [55 favorites]
In other news, the Senate Parliamentarian ruled that the authority to pass a health care bill with 51 votes under reconciliation ends September 30th
Considering that they have to raise the debt ceiling, approve a budget CR, and pass Harvey relief this month, this is probably the real death of zombie TrumpCare.
posted by chris24 at 11:43 AM on September 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
Considering that they have to raise the debt ceiling, approve a budget CR, and pass Harvey relief this month, this is probably the real death of zombie TrumpCare.
posted by chris24 at 11:43 AM on September 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
Mueller Has Early Draft of Trump Letter Giving Reasons for Firing Comey
The Times has not seen a copy of the letter...
Well, if it was really drafted by Stephen Miller, noted C+ Santa Monica Fascict, we can all be assured it's a steaming pile of rhetoric.
posted by zakur at 11:44 AM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
The Times has not seen a copy of the letter...
Well, if it was really drafted by Stephen Miller, noted C+ Santa Monica Fascict, we can all be assured it's a steaming pile of rhetoric.
posted by zakur at 11:44 AM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
So, if your neighbor has a confederate flag in his basement, don't shun him. You don't have to pretend to be racist too, but you still want to engage him, just on other things.Sorry, but you seem to be assuming that everyone here is white. It's great that I don't have to pretend that I think I should be killed or deported, though! I'll keep that in mind!
posted by salix at 11:45 AM on September 1, 2017 [42 favorites]
UPCOMING SPECIAL ELECTIONS - OCTOBER
Boilerplate: Lots of law comes out of state legislatures, plenty of it bad. These elections don't get much attention, doubly so for special elections. Because of the small scope, a small amount of your money or time could help elect these folks! Please pitch in, if you can!
Previously noted: September specials. Not too late to help those folks out.
New: October elections
Light month, as most places sensibly wait for the regular Election Day. Next week, I'll provide info on Virginia House of Delegates races, which are high importance.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:47 AM on September 1, 2017 [28 favorites]
Boilerplate: Lots of law comes out of state legislatures, plenty of it bad. These elections don't get much attention, doubly so for special elections. Because of the small scope, a small amount of your money or time could help elect these folks! Please pitch in, if you can!
Previously noted: September specials. Not too late to help those folks out.
New: October elections
====There is also a Massachusetts Senate special on October 17th, but the primary isn't until September 19th. I'll provide an update then.
October 10 -- Florida House 44 -- Paul Chandler
HD-44 is currently an R seat (the incumbent was appointed to a judgeship); the R ran unopposed in 2016, won 74-26 in 2014, ran unopposed in 2012. The district was won by Clinton 51-45, but by Romney 53-46. The Rs control the FL House by about 35 seats.
=> Chandler has been embroiled in a residency controversy and lawsuit. That said, the district certainly seems to be closer than the last race would indicate.
====
October 14 -- Louisiana House 58 -- [see below]
HD-58 is currently a D seat (the incumbent was elected to state Senate). No R ran in 2015 or 2011. Clinton won the district 71-27, and Obama 73-26. The Rs control the LA House by about 20 seats.
Louisiana has a top two primary (with a second round if no one gets 50%); there are four declared Ds, no declared Rs.
=> I gotta tell you, even finding websites for these people is challenging, and no matter what a D is getting elected. I'm calling it a day.
====
October 14 -- Louisiana House 77 -- [none]
HHD-77 is currently an R seat (the incumbent resigned to run for state treasurer). The R ran unopposed in 2015 and 2011. Trump won the district 76-16 and Romney 78-20.
Three Rs and one independent have registered for this race, no Ds. The independent seems not terrible, if you want to check her out.
=> Can't win if you don't run. On the plus side, I think this is only the second special this year with no D candidate.
====
Light month, as most places sensibly wait for the regular Election Day. Next week, I'll provide info on Virginia House of Delegates races, which are high importance.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:47 AM on September 1, 2017 [28 favorites]
child-rapist Dennis Hastert
I sometimes forget that Republican Dennis Hastert was Speaker of the House from 1999-2007.
For eight years a Republican serial child rapist was third in line of succession for the presidency.
Eight years.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:49 AM on September 1, 2017 [78 favorites]
I sometimes forget that Republican Dennis Hastert was Speaker of the House from 1999-2007.
For eight years a Republican serial child rapist was third in line of succession for the presidency.
Eight years.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:49 AM on September 1, 2017 [78 favorites]
Excommunicated Cardinal Ronald Reagan gave an appalling speech at the Neshoba County Fair in Mississippi, in which he threw his lot in the with people pissed off that the federal government had tried to obtain justice for three civil rights workers--James Chaney, Andrew Goodman, and Mickey Schwerner--who were registering new African-American voters and then lynched by the Klan.
Excellent comment, and I have just one minor historic correction.
The three were not simply murdered by the Klan. They were murdered by Neshoba County Sheriff's Deputy Cecil Price, who was a Klan member in his spare time, with the aid of at least two other Klan members, and the full knowledge and support of the Sheriff and other government officials.
After the murders the government at all levels, county, city, and state, participated in a coverup. At one point then governor Barnett went on nationwide television to denounce the investigation (which Hoover opposed, underfunded, and undermined) as pure political theater designed to make white supremacists look bad. He further stated that everyone knew the three victims were alive and hiding in Alabama.
Federal investigators found not only the bodies of Chaney, Goodman, and Schwerner, but also college students Henry Hezekiah Dee and Charles Eddie Moore, a 14 year old boy named Herbert Oarsby and **FIVE OTHER** unidentified black people.
In his infamous Neshoba County Fair speech barely sixteen years later, Reagan told the appreciative crowd that when he was president the Federal government would leave law enforcement to the state and local authorities. It was as clear a statement as you can get that Reagan was basically promising that when elected the police in Neshoba would yet again be free to torture people to death and hide the bodies so as to enforce white supremacy by terror.
posted by sotonohito at 11:49 AM on September 1, 2017 [134 favorites]
Excellent comment, and I have just one minor historic correction.
The three were not simply murdered by the Klan. They were murdered by Neshoba County Sheriff's Deputy Cecil Price, who was a Klan member in his spare time, with the aid of at least two other Klan members, and the full knowledge and support of the Sheriff and other government officials.
After the murders the government at all levels, county, city, and state, participated in a coverup. At one point then governor Barnett went on nationwide television to denounce the investigation (which Hoover opposed, underfunded, and undermined) as pure political theater designed to make white supremacists look bad. He further stated that everyone knew the three victims were alive and hiding in Alabama.
Federal investigators found not only the bodies of Chaney, Goodman, and Schwerner, but also college students Henry Hezekiah Dee and Charles Eddie Moore, a 14 year old boy named Herbert Oarsby and **FIVE OTHER** unidentified black people.
In his infamous Neshoba County Fair speech barely sixteen years later, Reagan told the appreciative crowd that when he was president the Federal government would leave law enforcement to the state and local authorities. It was as clear a statement as you can get that Reagan was basically promising that when elected the police in Neshoba would yet again be free to torture people to death and hide the bodies so as to enforce white supremacy by terror.
posted by sotonohito at 11:49 AM on September 1, 2017 [134 favorites]
But he seemed so nice
posted by petebest at 11:55 AM on September 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by petebest at 11:55 AM on September 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
I don't really even want them to criticize Cruz et al. for their Sandy votes.
I disagree. I want them to name the relief bill the "Despite Senators Cruz and Cornyn Trying To Stop Sandy Relief Funds We're Funding Harvey Relief Act".
I want the money to be paid out in actual cash, and each bill stamped "We Gave This Money to Texas Despite Cruz and Cornyn's Opposition To Sandy Relief".
I want every Texas Republican to have to face, every day, the fact that the Democrats are better people than they are. More moral. More forgiving. More generous. I want to rub their noses in it until they're sick to death of hearing about how they're getting help despite the fact that Cruz and Cornyn tried to deny similar help to others.
posted by sotonohito at 11:56 AM on September 1, 2017 [67 favorites]
I disagree. I want them to name the relief bill the "Despite Senators Cruz and Cornyn Trying To Stop Sandy Relief Funds We're Funding Harvey Relief Act".
I want the money to be paid out in actual cash, and each bill stamped "We Gave This Money to Texas Despite Cruz and Cornyn's Opposition To Sandy Relief".
I want every Texas Republican to have to face, every day, the fact that the Democrats are better people than they are. More moral. More forgiving. More generous. I want to rub their noses in it until they're sick to death of hearing about how they're getting help despite the fact that Cruz and Cornyn tried to deny similar help to others.
posted by sotonohito at 11:56 AM on September 1, 2017 [67 favorites]
For eight years a Republican serial child rapist was third in line of succession for the presidency.
Well, 8 years that we know of.
posted by rc3spencer at 12:02 PM on September 1, 2017 [26 favorites]
Well, 8 years that we know of.
posted by rc3spencer at 12:02 PM on September 1, 2017 [26 favorites]
Cruz and Cornyn tried to deny similar help to others.
Did deny. They delayed Sandy funding for over 5 months. They absolutely DID delay and deny recovery funds to blue states out of spite. That is a thing that Republicans did.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:07 PM on September 1, 2017 [51 favorites]
Did deny. They delayed Sandy funding for over 5 months. They absolutely DID delay and deny recovery funds to blue states out of spite. That is a thing that Republicans did.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:07 PM on September 1, 2017 [51 favorites]
Charlotte mayoral candidate reminds voters – she’s white
“VOTE FOR ME!” Kimberley Paige Barnette posted on Facebook. “REPUBLICAN & SMART, WHITE, TRADITIONAL.”posted by guiseroom at 12:08 PM on September 1, 2017 [52 favorites]
It's still there on her sidebar :(
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 12:14 PM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 12:14 PM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
WaPo has more details on the original Comey firing letter, including that it contained complaints about his handling of the Russia investigation. Oops.
Mueller examining Trump’s draft letter firing FBI Director Comey
Mueller examining Trump’s draft letter firing FBI Director Comey
The multi-page letter enumerated Trump’s long-simmering complaints with Comey, according to people familiar with it, including Trump’s frustration that Comey was unwilling to say publicly that Trump was not personally under investigation in the FBI’s inquiry into Russian meddling in the 2016 election.posted by chris24 at 12:17 PM on September 1, 2017 [14 favorites]
Trump drafted the letter with senior policy adviser Stephen Miller on an early-May weekend visit to his golf club in Bedminster, N.J., and then shared it with senior aides during an Oval Office meeting the day before the firing, according to people familiar with the discussions.
Some aides urged caution, these people said. And Trump ultimately sent Comey a far shorter letter that described his decision as having been prompted by recommendations from Attorney General Jeff Sessions and Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein, who served as Comey’s direct supervisors — a description that was echoed in initial public statements by White House officials.
It's still there on her sidebar :(
Well she hasn't stopped being white, has she?
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:18 PM on September 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
Well she hasn't stopped being white, has she?
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:18 PM on September 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
[Deletes the part of this comment where I leak to the Post story, since Chris has that covered, down to using exactly the same pullquote I had.]
That seems like a really big deal. This is outright saying the White House lied about the timeline on firing Comey (now there's a surprise). More importantly, it's acknowledging that the entire story they put out about this coming from Rosenstein was a lie.
Arguing that firing Comey was obstruction of justice was always going to be a bit of a tough sell. Having evidence that Trump lied about his motives for doing so is a whole different ballgame.
posted by zachlipton at 12:20 PM on September 1, 2017 [37 favorites]
That seems like a really big deal. This is outright saying the White House lied about the timeline on firing Comey (now there's a surprise). More importantly, it's acknowledging that the entire story they put out about this coming from Rosenstein was a lie.
Arguing that firing Comey was obstruction of justice was always going to be a bit of a tough sell. Having evidence that Trump lied about his motives for doing so is a whole different ballgame.
posted by zachlipton at 12:20 PM on September 1, 2017 [37 favorites]
Huh. I've always thought obstruction of justice was going to be the easiest charge having to do with the Russia probe to prove. "Easiest" is relative, obviously, but Obstruction seems much more likely than proof Trump illegally colluded with Russia.
Well, obstruction and tax/fraud charges from shady finances.
posted by Justinian at 12:24 PM on September 1, 2017 [11 favorites]
Well, obstruction and tax/fraud charges from shady finances.
posted by Justinian at 12:24 PM on September 1, 2017 [11 favorites]
Yeah, I agree that this is a big deal. This basically proves that the main reason for the firing was Russia, that they concocted a cover story to hide that fact, and that they then lied about it and kept lying about it.
posted by chris24 at 12:26 PM on September 1, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 12:26 PM on September 1, 2017 [15 favorites]
Arguing that firing Comey was obstruction of justice was always going to be a bit of a tough sell. Having evidence that Trump lied about his motives for doing so is a whole different ballgame.
It's a lot less tough a sell when, by having lied about his motives, Trump is basically doing the arguing for you now.
posted by Gelatin at 12:28 PM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's a lot less tough a sell when, by having lied about his motives, Trump is basically doing the arguing for you now.
posted by Gelatin at 12:28 PM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
A slam dunk obstruction case can also be leveraged against other conspirators to the Russia collusion. If McGahn spiked that first draft, he's now a suspect in the obstruction case too, along with Miller and Kushner.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:28 PM on September 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:28 PM on September 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
> “No!” Trump repeated. “I’m not doing that.”
Trump then swiped his jar of squash-flavoured baby food onto the floor, where it smashed into pieces. Trump looked pleased with himself. "Well, how about some nice applesauce instead?" asked Mulvaney. [fake, as far as I know]
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:29 PM on September 1, 2017 [18 favorites]
Trump then swiped his jar of squash-flavoured baby food onto the floor, where it smashed into pieces. Trump looked pleased with himself. "Well, how about some nice applesauce instead?" asked Mulvaney. [fake, as far as I know]
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:29 PM on September 1, 2017 [18 favorites]
That seems like a really big deal.
and
I'd love to see the rejected drafts of the Pickle letter.
For better or worse (okay, worse) one of the more exciting things in my life right now is seeing pages of out-of-context snippets like this sail through My Activity and finally getting home and catching up.
posted by Room 641-A at 12:31 PM on September 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
and
I'd love to see the rejected drafts of the Pickle letter.
For better or worse (okay, worse) one of the more exciting things in my life right now is seeing pages of out-of-context snippets like this sail through My Activity and finally getting home and catching up.
posted by Room 641-A at 12:31 PM on September 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
We go now to the man likely to be come Alabama's next Senator:
Asked by WVNN's radio host Dale Jackson about Trump's push to end DACA protection for so-called Dreamers, a confused Moore responded "Pardon? The Dreamer program?"posted by Chrysostom at 12:32 PM on September 1, 2017 [42 favorites]
JACKSON: "Yes, sir, the DACA/DAPA. You're not aware of what Dreamers are?"
MOORE: "No."
JACKSON: "This is a big issue in the immigration debate …"
MOORE: "Why don't you tell me what it is Dale and quit beating around and tell me what it is."
JACKSON: "I'm in the process of doing that Judge Moore."
MOORE: "OK."
Sarah Huckabee Sanders on repealing DACA: "The President's been very clear that he loves people"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:32 PM on September 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:32 PM on September 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
Trump drafted the letter with senior policy adviser Stephen Miller on an early-May weekend visit to his golf club in Bedminster, N.J., and then shared it with senior aides during an Oval Office meeting the day before the firing, according to people familiar with the discussions.
I'm mildly astonished that this highly incriminating draft still existed after that meeting, but it would seem to follow that one of the people who drafted the letter or met to discuss it retained a copy, which Mueller eventually obtained.
posted by Gelatin at 12:33 PM on September 1, 2017
I'm mildly astonished that this highly incriminating draft still existed after that meeting, but it would seem to follow that one of the people who drafted the letter or met to discuss it retained a copy, which Mueller eventually obtained.
posted by Gelatin at 12:33 PM on September 1, 2017
Do we distrust this guy so much now that we won't even take his televised confession to a crime as evidence of that crime?
A draft letter would undermine Trump's ability to ludicrously claim that he misspoke after the fact, or was joking.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:34 PM on September 1, 2017 [25 favorites]
A draft letter would undermine Trump's ability to ludicrously claim that he misspoke after the fact, or was joking.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:34 PM on September 1, 2017 [25 favorites]
What is the point of this briefing? Of any of these briefings? We just had another report about Sanders telling falsehood after falsehood about Comey's firing. Why is the response to everything she says at this point not just "you're a liar and I will not report your fucking lies?"
Want to bet nobody will bother to ask about why we're doing nothing to secure the next election against hacking either?
posted by zachlipton at 12:34 PM on September 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
Want to bet nobody will bother to ask about why we're doing nothing to secure the next election against hacking either?
posted by zachlipton at 12:34 PM on September 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
Maybe I'm confused, but... didn't Trump come right out and say to Lester Holt that he fired Comey because of the Russia investigation? And that he was already going to do so regardless of what his advisers came up with?
Yes, he basically admitted to it on TV, but having this in writing is better for a few reasons, one that East Manitoba mentioned. But another big one being that it incriminates a lot more people besides Trump. Anyone who participated in the preparation of the original letter and then the cover story letter are now on the hook for possibly obstructing justice. And can be rolled up on to get to Trump.
posted by chris24 at 12:35 PM on September 1, 2017 [19 favorites]
Yes, he basically admitted to it on TV, but having this in writing is better for a few reasons, one that East Manitoba mentioned. But another big one being that it incriminates a lot more people besides Trump. Anyone who participated in the preparation of the original letter and then the cover story letter are now on the hook for possibly obstructing justice. And can be rolled up on to get to Trump.
posted by chris24 at 12:35 PM on September 1, 2017 [19 favorites]
i think we have a new one: Butt's Law
posted by j_curiouser at 12:36 PM on September 1, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by j_curiouser at 12:36 PM on September 1, 2017 [15 favorites]
Do we distrust this guy so much now that we won't even take his televised confession
Well, since he lies every time he opens his pie hole, yes. But the big reason is that more evidence is a good thing. The burden of proof is beyond a reasonable doubt.
posted by bearwife at 12:36 PM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
Well, since he lies every time he opens his pie hole, yes. But the big reason is that more evidence is a good thing. The burden of proof is beyond a reasonable doubt.
posted by bearwife at 12:36 PM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
Maybe I'm confused, but... didn't Trump come right out and say to Lester Holt that he fired Comey because of the Russia investigation? And that he was already going to do so regardless of what his advisers came up with?
Sort of, but not explicitly enough. The letter will hopefully nail that down and remove any legal wiggle room.
This article goes over that point.
posted by Fleebnork at 12:36 PM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Sort of, but not explicitly enough. The letter will hopefully nail that down and remove any legal wiggle room.
This article goes over that point.
posted by Fleebnork at 12:36 PM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm mildly astonished that this highly incriminating draft still existed after that meeting,
I can't say if this is SOP in government, but it is SOP in business to keep a paper trail of everything so you can cover your ass if your boss (or, worse, a sniveling backstabbing collegue) tries to pin something on your own sniveling backstabbing ass. You can say "well, look, he/you/somebody wrote this and its evidence that they're the actual sniveling backstabbing one."
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:36 PM on September 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
I can't say if this is SOP in government, but it is SOP in business to keep a paper trail of everything so you can cover your ass if your boss (or, worse, a sniveling backstabbing collegue) tries to pin something on your own sniveling backstabbing ass. You can say "well, look, he/you/somebody wrote this and its evidence that they're the actual sniveling backstabbing one."
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:36 PM on September 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
> "The President's been very clear that he loves people"
Any time any politician (or their spokesperson) says that s/he has been "very clear," you can rest assured that you are being served a big, heaping platter of the finest grade of bullshit known to humankind.
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:37 PM on September 1, 2017 [24 favorites]
Any time any politician (or their spokesperson) says that s/he has been "very clear," you can rest assured that you are being served a big, heaping platter of the finest grade of bullshit known to humankind.
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:37 PM on September 1, 2017 [24 favorites]
I'm mildly astonished that this highly incriminating draft still existed after that meeting
Maybe Don Jr sent the draft letter to Mueller to prove that his father will take them all down if they don't stop investigating him.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:37 PM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
Maybe Don Jr sent the draft letter to Mueller to prove that his father will take them all down if they don't stop investigating him.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:37 PM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
i think we have a new one: Butt's Law
It's not mine, although I can't recall where I read it.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:39 PM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's not mine, although I can't recall where I read it.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:39 PM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm mildly astonished that this highly incriminating draft still existed after that meeting.
These people don't understand that they could possibly be guilty or that consequences could ever exist.
posted by Glibpaxman at 12:41 PM on September 1, 2017 [12 favorites]
These people don't understand that they could possibly be guilty or that consequences could ever exist.
posted by Glibpaxman at 12:41 PM on September 1, 2017 [12 favorites]
Heh. Speaking of sketchy documents, the Russian consulate in San Francisco is apparently going through their burn bags apace in the hours before they're required to vacate.
posted by xyzzy at 12:42 PM on September 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 12:42 PM on September 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
This is from Egg this morning, before the this afternoon's Trump O'Clock Russia news. Has he ever been this explicit in calling for impeachment? I don't remember if so.
@Evan_McMullin
Especially after this week's Russia news, it should be politically unacceptable for Trump to remain in office, regardless of the legal case.
- The President's entire core team was built to collude with Moscow against Americans' most basic interests. All evidence indicates they did.
- After several months of weekly or daily bombshell Russia revelations, we've started to grow desensitized to this outrageous betrayal.
- Too many GOP leaders and faux conservative commentators have misled the American people in dismissing the matter or by claiming it's a hoax.
- Well, it isn't a hoax at all. It's an egregious violation of our national security and it should not be tolerated.
- Were Trump a Democrat, Congressional Republican leadership would be apoplectic and would've introduced impeachment resolutions weeks ago.
posted by chris24 at 12:42 PM on September 1, 2017 [95 favorites]
@Evan_McMullin
Especially after this week's Russia news, it should be politically unacceptable for Trump to remain in office, regardless of the legal case.
- The President's entire core team was built to collude with Moscow against Americans' most basic interests. All evidence indicates they did.
- After several months of weekly or daily bombshell Russia revelations, we've started to grow desensitized to this outrageous betrayal.
- Too many GOP leaders and faux conservative commentators have misled the American people in dismissing the matter or by claiming it's a hoax.
- Well, it isn't a hoax at all. It's an egregious violation of our national security and it should not be tolerated.
- Were Trump a Democrat, Congressional Republican leadership would be apoplectic and would've introduced impeachment resolutions weeks ago.
posted by chris24 at 12:42 PM on September 1, 2017 [95 favorites]
The Russian Consulate in San Francisco has to shut down tomorrow and there's an awful lot of smoke pouring out of the chimney.
The fire department popped down to check it out and confirms the place isn't on fire. So, you know, just a lot of stuff to burn today I guess.
It's a Spare the Air Day here because it's hot as hell, and I look forward to the Air District chasing after Russia for the pollution.
posted by zachlipton at 12:45 PM on September 1, 2017 [43 favorites]
The fire department popped down to check it out and confirms the place isn't on fire. So, you know, just a lot of stuff to burn today I guess.
It's a Spare the Air Day here because it's hot as hell, and I look forward to the Air District chasing after Russia for the pollution.
posted by zachlipton at 12:45 PM on September 1, 2017 [43 favorites]
These people don't understand that they could possibly be guilty or that consequences could ever exist.
To be fair to Trump, it's not clear that there will be any consequences at all, whatsoever. All evidence in fact says that there will not be. We don't have any evidence that the United States under Republican control operates under the rule of law. The opposite is true, all observable evidence says that Republicans will never do anything, no matter the level of treason and law breaking uncovered.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:46 PM on September 1, 2017 [17 favorites]
To be fair to Trump, it's not clear that there will be any consequences at all, whatsoever. All evidence in fact says that there will not be. We don't have any evidence that the United States under Republican control operates under the rule of law. The opposite is true, all observable evidence says that Republicans will never do anything, no matter the level of treason and law breaking uncovered.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:46 PM on September 1, 2017 [17 favorites]
"The President's been very clear that he loves people"
Ugh. There it is again.
Is it just me, or has there been a recent noticeable increase in this type of language ("I love everybody") from trump and his spokespeople?
This is not the language of a politician. This is not the language of a businessman. This is the language of a cult leader.
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:48 PM on September 1, 2017 [21 favorites]
Ugh. There it is again.
Is it just me, or has there been a recent noticeable increase in this type of language ("I love everybody") from trump and his spokespeople?
This is not the language of a politician. This is not the language of a businessman. This is the language of a cult leader.
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:48 PM on September 1, 2017 [21 favorites]
The Crying Nazi's lawyer needs to stop this nonsense and get back to work on Half-Life 3
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:50 PM on September 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:50 PM on September 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
what are the odds that the wall-construction companies in tx, az, ms, and al employ a lot of undocumented labor? or do they shield themselves with subs?
i guess my point is, that should be a disqualifier from a contracting pov.
posted by j_curiouser at 12:51 PM on September 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
i guess my point is, that should be a disqualifier from a contracting pov.
posted by j_curiouser at 12:51 PM on September 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94: "Sarah Huckabee Sanders on repealing DACA: "The President's been very clear that he loves people""
The President LIKES dogs, Senator.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:54 PM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
The President LIKES dogs, Senator.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:54 PM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
The Crying Nazi's lawyer needs to stop this nonsense and get back to work on Half-Life 3
I loved him in that one episode of The Office.
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:56 PM on September 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
I loved him in that one episode of The Office.
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:56 PM on September 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
>>Maybe I'm confused, but... didn't Trump come right out and say to Lester Holt that he fired Comey because of the Russia investigation? And that he was already going to do so regardless of what his advisers came up with?
>Sort of, but not explicitly enough. The letter will hopefully nail that down and remove any legal wiggle room.
In addition to that, and also in addition to statements in the public sphere, getting a hold of a private, draft letter sends an important psychological message of "I AM ALL UP IN YOUR SHIT, AND YOU CANNOT HIDE".
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:56 PM on September 1, 2017 [28 favorites]
>Sort of, but not explicitly enough. The letter will hopefully nail that down and remove any legal wiggle room.
In addition to that, and also in addition to statements in the public sphere, getting a hold of a private, draft letter sends an important psychological message of "I AM ALL UP IN YOUR SHIT, AND YOU CANNOT HIDE".
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:56 PM on September 1, 2017 [28 favorites]
National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: How about never pardoning Joe Arpaio? Is never good for you?
There is no denying that last Friday night, in the midst of a horrible storm, was an awful time to try to bury the news of the pardon of former sheriff Joe Arpaio.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:56 PM on September 1, 2017 [17 favorites]
Never mind the ratings. Why compound a hideous natural disaster with a manmade one?
Surely, everyone points out, there must have been a better time for such an announcement.
[…]
Why bury it on a Friday? Why even act sheepish? The Trump administration has hardly been sheepish about these things before.
Wait for a clear day, maybe. Wait until the rain stops, and then announce your rampant disregard for the rule of law, coming into the sky like the opposite of a rainbow, a promise of worse things to come.
This is not the language of a politician. This is not the language of a businessman. This is the language of a cult leader.
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:48 PM on September 1
To me it sounds like the language of Barney the purple dinosaur: I love you. You love me.
posted by sardonyx at 12:56 PM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:48 PM on September 1
To me it sounds like the language of Barney the purple dinosaur: I love you. You love me.
posted by sardonyx at 12:56 PM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
I wish I could head over to Mexico City and nail up a rusty can on a wall with a sign asking for donations to build the great wall to the north (Gran Muralla Del Norte) and ask for only pre-1993 pesos (worth $0.00005 each).
Of course some might not get the satire.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:57 PM on September 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
Of course some might not get the satire.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:57 PM on September 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
The Russian Consulate in San Francisco has to shut down tomorrow and there's an awful lot of smoke pouring out of the chimney.
It's black smoke, so no new Patriarch of Moscow yet.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:59 PM on September 1, 2017 [34 favorites]
It's black smoke, so no new Patriarch of Moscow yet.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:59 PM on September 1, 2017 [34 favorites]
That "I love everyone" business is classic "intentions are not magic" nonsense. We have a friend--a good friend and just to be clear he's not anything like Donald Trump--whose major personal foible is that he thinks that his feelings towards people should automatically give him credit when his actions wind up being significantly less awesome. We have tried to explain to him, again and again, that saying that he cares about someone is not the same as demonstrating that care. Saying shit is easy. Doing shit is hard. If you really care, do the hard shit.
But the only hard shit Donald Trump has ever done is relegated to the domain of his golden potty. So.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:00 PM on September 1, 2017 [19 favorites]
But the only hard shit Donald Trump has ever done is relegated to the domain of his golden potty. So.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:00 PM on September 1, 2017 [19 favorites]
Is it just me, or has there been a recent noticeable increase in this type of language ("I love everybody") from trump and his spokespeople?
Not just you. Also re DACA:
In a news conference the following month, he said, “The DACA situation is a very difficult thing for me, as I love these kids, I love kids.
(Tiffany.... Not so much.)
posted by Room 641-A at 1:02 PM on September 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
Not just you. Also re DACA:
In a news conference the following month, he said, “The DACA situation is a very difficult thing for me, as I love these kids, I love kids.
(Tiffany.... Not so much.)
posted by Room 641-A at 1:02 PM on September 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
It's black smoke, so no new Patriarch of Moscow yet.
More like no new American president yet.
posted by Behemoth at 1:08 PM on September 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
More like no new American president yet.
posted by Behemoth at 1:08 PM on September 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
What this whole "love the racist/bigot/jerkass" argument really boils down to is:
(a) Some people are miserably unhappy, probably for good reasons such as lack of decent paying jobs or other economic damage.
(b) While some folks take their misery out on themselves, some other folks like to take their misery out on others. They feel better/happier if they blame/abuse some "enemy" rather than themselves. It's empowering for them.
(c) How do we get people like that to stop wanting to hurt other people because they are unhappy? Well, somehow we have to make them happy. With love or money or coddling or what the fuck ever, but...
(d) if they were happy, odds are lower that they'd be acting like this.
Hell if I know HOW to make them happy, mind you, but if these folks were satisfied with how their lives were going, they might not be acting like this.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:14 PM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
(a) Some people are miserably unhappy, probably for good reasons such as lack of decent paying jobs or other economic damage.
(b) While some folks take their misery out on themselves, some other folks like to take their misery out on others. They feel better/happier if they blame/abuse some "enemy" rather than themselves. It's empowering for them.
(c) How do we get people like that to stop wanting to hurt other people because they are unhappy? Well, somehow we have to make them happy. With love or money or coddling or what the fuck ever, but...
(d) if they were happy, odds are lower that they'd be acting like this.
Hell if I know HOW to make them happy, mind you, but if these folks were satisfied with how their lives were going, they might not be acting like this.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:14 PM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
Do we know the names of the companies that were awarded the wall prototype contracts? We should start working on naming and shaming them wherever they go. Time to break out the giant inflatable rat.
That reminds me:
Los Angeles wants city contractors to disclose ties to Trump’s border wall (Kyle Swenson, WaPo)
That reminds me:
Los Angeles wants city contractors to disclose ties to Trump’s border wall (Kyle Swenson, WaPo)
The city’s move mirrors a similar proposal working through the California statehouse. Both proposals are being criticized by building trade associations, who say it is an unfair mix of business and politics. New York City and Tucson have both contemplated similar bans on border wall-related businesses.posted by Room 641-A at 1:14 PM on September 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
Another one down... CNN: Longtime Trump aide Keith Schiller tells people he intends to leave White House
posted by zachlipton at 1:15 PM on September 1, 2017 [26 favorites]
President Donald Trump's longtime aide and current director of Oval Office operations Keith Schiller has told people he intends to leave the White House, three sources familiar with the decision told CNN.I'm telling you, by the time this is all over it's just going to be Trump, Ivanka, and Hope Hicks in the White House.
Schiller has told associates within the last two weeks that he plans to leave the White House at the end of September or in early October, the sources said. Schiller has told people his primary reason for leaving was financial, the sources said. Schiller earns a $165,000 annual salary at the White House -- a downgrade from his annual earnings before he followed Trump to the White House.
...
Now, Schiller's potential departure will leave Trump without one of his most loyal and trusted aides at his side at a time of tumultuous change at the White House. Schiller has been a constant presence at Trump's side for nearly two decades and was among a handful of aides from Trump's previous life as a businessman to follow Trump onto the campaign trail and into the White House.
...
The sources stressed that Schiller's reasoning was primarily financial, but one source said Schiller has also grown frustrated with the new system installed by White House chief of staff John Kelly aimed at restricting access to the President. Schiller has complained that he must call into the White House switchboard to reach Trump over the phone, one source said.
posted by zachlipton at 1:15 PM on September 1, 2017 [26 favorites]
BREAKING: Senate parliamentarian has told lawmakers GOP authority to pass an Obamacare replacement with just 51 votes expires Sept 30
@ddayen (The Nation)
1/ This is a huge deal and unexpected. Sets up a giant fight over what to put in a 2018 budget resolution.
2/ First, Obamacare repeal currently in limbo in the Senate now has 29 more days to go. So the Menendez/McCain scenarios have a shelf life
3/ Second, the 2018 budget resolution becomes the last chance for a majority-vote vehicle for Congress. What will Rs try to stuff in there?
4/ If they put in taxes and health care that really complicates tax reform. If they leave one out it's done until the midterms.
5/ All the talk has been about taxes on the Hill lately, so likely scenario is leaving HC out. But that's a full admission of failure on repeal
6/ Because HC is so high-profile, whether or not it gets in the 2018 budget resolution will be a huge fight. Magnifies potential for no reso
7/ No resolution means no HC OR taxes.
---
One thing I hadn't thought of is that this basically eliminates the nightmare of having Menendez kicked out and Christie appointing an R that votes to repeal Obamacare. Very little chance they convict him and oust him from the Senate in 29 days.
posted by chris24 at 1:15 PM on September 1, 2017 [21 favorites]
@ddayen (The Nation)
1/ This is a huge deal and unexpected. Sets up a giant fight over what to put in a 2018 budget resolution.
2/ First, Obamacare repeal currently in limbo in the Senate now has 29 more days to go. So the Menendez/McCain scenarios have a shelf life
3/ Second, the 2018 budget resolution becomes the last chance for a majority-vote vehicle for Congress. What will Rs try to stuff in there?
4/ If they put in taxes and health care that really complicates tax reform. If they leave one out it's done until the midterms.
5/ All the talk has been about taxes on the Hill lately, so likely scenario is leaving HC out. But that's a full admission of failure on repeal
6/ Because HC is so high-profile, whether or not it gets in the 2018 budget resolution will be a huge fight. Magnifies potential for no reso
7/ No resolution means no HC OR taxes.
---
One thing I hadn't thought of is that this basically eliminates the nightmare of having Menendez kicked out and Christie appointing an R that votes to repeal Obamacare. Very little chance they convict him and oust him from the Senate in 29 days.
posted by chris24 at 1:15 PM on September 1, 2017 [21 favorites]
(a) Some people are miserably unhappy, probably for good reasons such as lack of decent paying jobs or other economic damage.
This would be a totally valid concern if it wasn't completely clear by now that Trump's base is not poor white people. The "poor white trash with the Confederate flag" stereotype has been completely demolished by facts on the ground if anyone cares to look. Those people exist, sure, but they are not the face of American bigotry.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:18 PM on September 1, 2017 [23 favorites]
This would be a totally valid concern if it wasn't completely clear by now that Trump's base is not poor white people. The "poor white trash with the Confederate flag" stereotype has been completely demolished by facts on the ground if anyone cares to look. Those people exist, sure, but they are not the face of American bigotry.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:18 PM on September 1, 2017 [23 favorites]
Wow, National Treasure Alexandra Petri is getting testy, like it's getting so bad even she can't bring herself to joke about it anymore.
posted by achrise at 1:19 PM on September 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by achrise at 1:19 PM on September 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
Thoughtful comment, jenfullmoon! I knew a guy in college whose family was, bluntly, white trash. The father was underemployed and tried to pull off various scams, the uncle was a pimp. Things generally sucked for them for a bunch of complex reasons, and I clearly remember one conversation when my friend said: "when things were really bad, they said to themselves, 'hey, at least we're not black.'"
posted by Melismata at 1:20 PM on September 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 1:20 PM on September 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
Whoa, Schiller's out?! I figured the loyal head of his personal security would last until the very end. Why would T let his muscle go or why his muscle would want to leave him over stuff this childish, having come this far? I do not get it. Worst Praetorian Guard ever.
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:24 PM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:24 PM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
"It's been a long couple of years these past few months"
I'm old enough to remember when the presidency unduly aged the office-holder, not the citizenry.
posted by riverlife at 1:26 PM on September 1, 2017 [111 favorites]
I'm old enough to remember when the presidency unduly aged the office-holder, not the citizenry.
posted by riverlife at 1:26 PM on September 1, 2017 [111 favorites]
I have no idea why T would let his muscle go or why his muscle would want to leave him, having come this far. I do not get it.
Schiller hasn't resigned, he's "told friends" he plans to resign. The idea is that the President reads this and agrees to pay Schiller more and to give him special authority over Kelly.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:27 PM on September 1, 2017 [29 favorites]
Schiller hasn't resigned, he's "told friends" he plans to resign. The idea is that the President reads this and agrees to pay Schiller more and to give him special authority over Kelly.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:27 PM on September 1, 2017 [29 favorites]
BREAKING: Senate parliamentarian has told lawmakers GOP authority to pass an Obamacare replacement with just 51 votes expires Sept 30
According to the linked article this is not that big of a deal:
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:29 PM on September 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
According to the linked article this is not that big of a deal:
The parliamentarian’s new finding doesn’t preclude Republicans in both chambers from seeking to restore the ability to use a 51-vote majority for an Obamacare repeal in the next fiscal year that starts Oct. 1.So, the House just has to pass their stupid bill again (which means they get to throw another kegger!) and the Senate is back to a 51-vote threshold.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:29 PM on September 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
At this point I assume anyone still at the White House is there either because
* they're related to Trump,
* they're trying desperately to keep his hands off the football,
* they're staying close because they anticipate needing a pardon, or
* they hope to be the last one standing so they can command the largest advance for the inevitable post-Trump book deals.
posted by jedicus at 1:31 PM on September 1, 2017 [11 favorites]
* they're related to Trump,
* they're trying desperately to keep his hands off the football,
* they're staying close because they anticipate needing a pardon, or
* they hope to be the last one standing so they can command the largest advance for the inevitable post-Trump book deals.
posted by jedicus at 1:31 PM on September 1, 2017 [11 favorites]
#4 is, of course, contingent on #2.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:32 PM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:32 PM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
This is not the language of a politician. This is not the language of a businessman. This is the language of a cult leader.
It's the language of a grifter, though it's true that the distinction between grifter and cult leader is slim and getting slimmer every day.
Meanwhile, because it's Friday and it's 2017, the Crying Nazi's attorney is ... this guy:
In other news, the DSA is ready to support the Juggalo flank in the fight against fascism.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:32 PM on September 1, 2017 [16 favorites]
It's the language of a grifter, though it's true that the distinction between grifter and cult leader is slim and getting slimmer every day.
Meanwhile, because it's Friday and it's 2017, the Crying Nazi's attorney is ... this guy:
Cantwell's attorney is Elmer Woodard, who appeared in court wearing an early-1800s-style red waistcoat with gold buttons, bowtie, white muttonchop whiskers, black velcro shoes, and a a 1910s-style straw boater hat. Cantwell said Woodard was his fourth choice for legal counsel after three other lawyers declined to take his case. (Woodard previously attempted to defend a client accused of sexual assault by a 15-year-old girl by claiming that the man’s sleepwalking caused him to rape her.)David Nir thinks it's this guy.
In other news, the DSA is ready to support the Juggalo flank in the fight against fascism.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:32 PM on September 1, 2017 [16 favorites]
According to the linked article this is not that big of a deal:
The issue isn't that they can't pass Obamacare repeal via reconciliation after Sept 30, it's that you can only pass one reconciliation bill per (fiscal) year. They wanted to pass repeal with reconciliation this year and then tax cuts with reconciliation next year. The Parliamentarian's ruling means they they can't do both, or they have to do both in one bill which makes it exponentially more difficult.
posted by Justinian at 1:34 PM on September 1, 2017 [21 favorites]
The issue isn't that they can't pass Obamacare repeal via reconciliation after Sept 30, it's that you can only pass one reconciliation bill per (fiscal) year. They wanted to pass repeal with reconciliation this year and then tax cuts with reconciliation next year. The Parliamentarian's ruling means they they can't do both, or they have to do both in one bill which makes it exponentially more difficult.
posted by Justinian at 1:34 PM on September 1, 2017 [21 favorites]
So, the House just has to pass their stupid bill again (which means they get to throw another kegger!) and the Senate is back to a 51-vote threshold.
Well, yes, but it's a bit more complicated. First, it's not just the House passing a bill again. Both chambers have to pass a budget resolution first. The budget resolution sets up the opportunity for what can be passed under reconciliation. Then both chambers have to pass a bill that meets the criteria in the resolution and the President has to sign it.
The original plan was to use last year's budget resolution to repeal Obamacare and this year's to cut taxes. The only way to do both this year without needing 60 votes (or nuking the filibuster) would be to combine revamping the nation's health care system and the nation's tax code into one massive bill and to pass it all at once. And maybe they're crazy enough to try that, I don't know, but I have to think Republicans are going to look around and not want to tie the tax cuts they really want to the anchor of the health care bill they haven't been able to pass, lest they set themselves up for another year of achieving neither.
posted by zachlipton at 1:38 PM on September 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
Well, yes, but it's a bit more complicated. First, it's not just the House passing a bill again. Both chambers have to pass a budget resolution first. The budget resolution sets up the opportunity for what can be passed under reconciliation. Then both chambers have to pass a bill that meets the criteria in the resolution and the President has to sign it.
The original plan was to use last year's budget resolution to repeal Obamacare and this year's to cut taxes. The only way to do both this year without needing 60 votes (or nuking the filibuster) would be to combine revamping the nation's health care system and the nation's tax code into one massive bill and to pass it all at once. And maybe they're crazy enough to try that, I don't know, but I have to think Republicans are going to look around and not want to tie the tax cuts they really want to the anchor of the health care bill they haven't been able to pass, lest they set themselves up for another year of achieving neither.
posted by zachlipton at 1:38 PM on September 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
We're talking solely about Republican votes. Is it possible that combining Obamacare repeal with more tax cuts for the rich makes it MORE likely to pass?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:42 PM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:42 PM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Obamacare repeal currently in limbo in the Senate now has 29 more days to go. So the Menendez/McCain scenarios have a shelf life
What are those scenarios?
posted by Coventry at 1:42 PM on September 1, 2017
What are those scenarios?
posted by Coventry at 1:42 PM on September 1, 2017
Both of those senators are likely to be... departing... at some point, making it harder or easier to pass the GOP agenda. McCain would be replaced by a Republican who would presumably be more likely to support Obamacare repeal.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:43 PM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:43 PM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
At this point I assume anyone still at the White House is there either because
You left out, "hoping to be first in line for the good jobs when Pence takes over."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:45 PM on September 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
You left out, "hoping to be first in line for the good jobs when Pence takes over."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:45 PM on September 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
Sarah Huckabee Sanders on repealing DACA: "The President's been very clear that he loves people"
Why did this not come with the [fake] tag it so obviously merits?
posted by scalefree at 1:45 PM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Why did this not come with the [fake] tag it so obviously merits?
posted by scalefree at 1:45 PM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Scenario 1: McCain dies or becomes incapacitated by his cancer. Arizona Governor Doug Ducey replaces him with another Republican (as required by law) and skinny repeal passes, since McCain's vote was needed to block it.
Scenario 2: Bob Menendez is convicted of political corruption, for which he is currently on trial. The Senate votes to expel him, and New Jersey governor Chris Christie replaces the Democratic Menendez with a Republican (since NJ has no law like Arizonas) and skinny repeal passes, since Menendez' vote was required to block it.
posted by Justinian at 1:46 PM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
Scenario 2: Bob Menendez is convicted of political corruption, for which he is currently on trial. The Senate votes to expel him, and New Jersey governor Chris Christie replaces the Democratic Menendez with a Republican (since NJ has no law like Arizonas) and skinny repeal passes, since Menendez' vote was required to block it.
posted by Justinian at 1:46 PM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
Note that the Democrats would have to go along to expel Menendez, so they could block scenario 2 if they decided to play hardball and take the political hit. On the other hand, despite voicing support for this scenario a couple weeks ago, I'm not longer sure. It occurs to me that if Democrats refuse to expel Menendez despite being convicted of corruption it would set a precedent for Republicans to refuse to impeach Trump even if Mueller finds him to be guilty of something like Obstruction of Justice or financial impropriety. Sure, you can argue the cases are different blah blah blah and Democrats are just delaying a few months (until Christie is no longer governor) but those are ultimately losing arguments I think.
posted by Justinian at 1:48 PM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 1:48 PM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
It occurs to me that if Democrats refuse to expel Menendez despite being convicted of corruption it would set a precedent for Republicans to refuse to impeach Trump even if Mueller finds him to be guilty of something like Obstruction of Justice or financial impropriety.
Spoiler: The Republicans will find a way to refuse to impeach Trump *and* blame the Democrats even if they do vote to expel Menedez.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:52 PM on September 1, 2017 [45 favorites]
Spoiler: The Republicans will find a way to refuse to impeach Trump *and* blame the Democrats even if they do vote to expel Menedez.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:52 PM on September 1, 2017 [45 favorites]
Part of the problem with combining tax cuts and ACA repeal into one huge law is the CBO score. If you can eliminate the ACA in this fiscal year, the cut Medicaid expansion money returns back to the general expenses, so it effectively "resets", and the tax cuts don't look so onerous the next time around. If you do it in one bill, it explicitly shows how you're cutting Medicaid to give tax cuts to the rich.
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 1:53 PM on September 1, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 1:53 PM on September 1, 2017 [13 favorites]
> Spoiler: The Republicans will find a way to refuse to impeach Trump *and* blame the Democrats even if they do vote to expel Menedez.
Yeah, this. There is no upside to Democrats going along with expulsion of Menendez. No points are awarded by the voting public for consistency, and no points are taken away for hypocrisy. The great harm that will come to people if ACA repeal happens far outweighs any bank-shot scenario where Democrats expelling Menendez increases the likelihood of impeachment.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:55 PM on September 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
Yeah, this. There is no upside to Democrats going along with expulsion of Menendez. No points are awarded by the voting public for consistency, and no points are taken away for hypocrisy. The great harm that will come to people if ACA repeal happens far outweighs any bank-shot scenario where Democrats expelling Menendez increases the likelihood of impeachment.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:55 PM on September 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
Spoiler: The Republicans will find a way to refuse to impeach Trump *and* blame the Democrats even if they do vote to expel Menedez.
Could be. There's also the fact that the right thing to do is probably to expel a Senator convicted of corruption. Of course the right thing to do is also not to strip health care and kill tens or hundreds of thousands of people. Which is why it's a tough decision.
posted by Justinian at 1:55 PM on September 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
Could be. There's also the fact that the right thing to do is probably to expel a Senator convicted of corruption. Of course the right thing to do is also not to strip health care and kill tens or hundreds of thousands of people. Which is why it's a tough decision.
posted by Justinian at 1:55 PM on September 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
Not to rain on your pessimism but for either of those scenarios to work we'd need the precipitating action to start within the next week or so & finish & be sworn in before the deadline AND Republicans would have to immediately start the legislative process to be ready for a final vote in September. I'm gonna put these in the "don't worry about" pile for now.
posted by scalefree at 1:58 PM on September 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 1:58 PM on September 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
No points are awarded by the voting public for consistency, and no points are taken away for hypocrisy.
For Republicans. And for Republicans.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:59 PM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm so sick of the "Trump Pledges $1M" articles all over the news.
I mean, whatever. The neighborhood I grew up in is under several feet of water, people have been told to expect it to last a month. Those houses are going to be completely destroyed. $1 million is the value of about two of them. (Not counting contents.) So, yeah, this does not impress me.
posted by threeturtles at 2:01 PM on September 1, 2017 [21 favorites]
I mean, whatever. The neighborhood I grew up in is under several feet of water, people have been told to expect it to last a month. Those houses are going to be completely destroyed. $1 million is the value of about two of them. (Not counting contents.) So, yeah, this does not impress me.
posted by threeturtles at 2:01 PM on September 1, 2017 [21 favorites]
OFF TOPIC/META
I've done some nerdy stuff with the POTUS45 threads. It's over here on MetaTalk if you're interested in thread sizes, word counts, word clouds and swearing.
posted by MattWPBS at 2:01 PM on September 1, 2017 [55 favorites]
I've done some nerdy stuff with the POTUS45 threads. It's over here on MetaTalk if you're interested in thread sizes, word counts, word clouds and swearing.
database with 48 threads, 139,882 comments (including the posts themselves as a comment), 9,230,306 words, 2,193,898 favourites and 46,692 links./OFF TOPIC/META
posted by MattWPBS at 2:01 PM on September 1, 2017 [55 favorites]
I'm gonna put these in the "don't worry about" pile for now.
Sure, Coventry asked what the scenarios were is all.
posted by Justinian at 2:02 PM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Sure, Coventry asked what the scenarios were is all.
posted by Justinian at 2:02 PM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Losing out on repealing Obamacare repeal in this session of congress also pushes any repeal attempt closer to the midterm cycle. Republican reps tried to hide from their constituents during the last attempt -- do you think they'd be able to do the same while actively campaigning for reelection?
posted by nathan_teske at 2:02 PM on September 1, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by nathan_teske at 2:02 PM on September 1, 2017 [12 favorites]
A couple threads from Renato Mariotta, former US Prosecutor, about the Comey letter. The first from this morning about just the Times story. The second from after the WaPo followup with letter details.
@renato_mariotti
THREAD: What does the news that Mueller has a draft of a Trump letter explaining why he wanted to fire Comey mean for the obstruction case? Today @nytimes reported that Mueller has an early draft of a letter that Stephen Miller wrote at Trump's urging. According to the @nytimes Miller drafted the letter at a Trump golf course while he and aides were discussing a rationale to fire Comey. At the same time, the @nytimes reports, Sessions and Rosenstein were working on a parallel effort to fire Comey. The @nytimes also noted that the White House Counsel blocked the Miller letter because he thought its contents were problematic. So what does mean? Because the White House Counsel rejected the letter, an obvious implication is that he believed its contents were problematic from a *legal* perspective. The White House Counsel is a lawyer, not a pollster, after all. We will probably never know what the White House Counsel said because of attorney-client privilege, but the *fact* that he reviewed the letter and blocked it is *not* privileged. The letter's contents can be used as evidence of the President's intent when he fired Comey, and its rejection by the White House Counsel suggests that he was on notice that his conduct was legally problematic. That could help Mueller prove that Trump had "corrupt" intent when firing Comey.
You can expect Miller to be heavily questioned about the letter--the fact that Mueller has the letter suggests that executive privilege has been waived, and Mueller could probably overcome it in any event. Every participant in those conversations will be asked about what the President said and what he was told by others during those conversations. There's no magic telescope that sees into a person's brain, so the best evidence of someone's intent is their own words and actions, as well as how they reacted to the words and actions of others. Also, as @rgoodlaw noted in the tweet below, Miller may have implicated *himself* through his actions.
If Miller agreed with Trump to obstruct justice, that's a crime called conspiracy and he's responsible for the acts of a co-conspirator. If he knew about obstruction and helped it succeed, that's also a crime--it's called aiding and abetting. So even if Mueller can't indict the President, there might still be an obstruction indictment given the involvement of others in the conduct.
---
@renato_mariotti
THREAD: What do the contents of the letter Stephen Miller wrote for Trump about firing Comey mean for Mueller's obstruction investigation? Earlier today, @nytimes reported that Mueller had a draft of Miller's letter. I discussed that at length here: [above] Just now, @washingtonpost reported details of the letter in the story below: Mueller examining Trump’s draft letter firing FBI Director Comey I won't repeat what I said in the last thread, but as background, the letter written by Miller was a draft written at Trump's request. Now the @washingtonpost reports that the letter contained Trump's complaint that Comey wouldn't say Trump wasn't under investigation. Mueller could ask a juror to infer that Trump intended to fire Comey in order to replace him with someone who would ensure that he was not personally investigated.
The @washingtonpost story also mentions that Ivanka and Kushner were part of the group, with Miller, discussing the Comey firing with Trump. That corroborates an earlier report that Bannon said those three were involved in the firing. It also means that Kushner (and Ivanka) now has additional potential liability, along with Miller. At the very least, they are witnesses. Another aspect of the @nytimes story that I want to clarify here relates to their reporting that the WH Counsel rejected the letter written by Miller.
In the prior thread, I said that it's unlikely that Mueller could obtain the contents of the WH Counsel's advice to Trump on this topic because he was acting in his capacity as President when he fired Comey. @AlisonFrankel of @Reuters asked me some good questions on this topic and I've done some research. The most analogous case is when Starr issued a grand jury subpoena for documents created by the WH Counsel during conversations with then-First Lady @HillaryClinton. Although the trial judge ruled that the documents were privileged, the Court of Appeals reversed (112 F.3d 910) and held that attorney-client privilege did not protect communications with the First Lady (who Starr conceded was a government employee) from a grand jury subpoena. There are reasons to believe the outcome could be different here, and there are multiple ways Trump could assert privilege to try to block the disclosure of that advice (perhaps by arguing that he had a genuine belief that the WH Counsel represented him personally), but there is some reason to believe Mueller could obtain the advice that Trump received. That advice could be very important to Mueller, if WH Counsel raised potential issues relating to obstruction of justice. ADDENDUM: As @AlisonFrankel pointed out, the Bruce Lindsey Court of Appeals case made this point even clearly--no attorney-client privilege.
posted by chris24 at 2:03 PM on September 1, 2017 [25 favorites]
@renato_mariotti
THREAD: What does the news that Mueller has a draft of a Trump letter explaining why he wanted to fire Comey mean for the obstruction case? Today @nytimes reported that Mueller has an early draft of a letter that Stephen Miller wrote at Trump's urging. According to the @nytimes Miller drafted the letter at a Trump golf course while he and aides were discussing a rationale to fire Comey. At the same time, the @nytimes reports, Sessions and Rosenstein were working on a parallel effort to fire Comey. The @nytimes also noted that the White House Counsel blocked the Miller letter because he thought its contents were problematic. So what does mean? Because the White House Counsel rejected the letter, an obvious implication is that he believed its contents were problematic from a *legal* perspective. The White House Counsel is a lawyer, not a pollster, after all. We will probably never know what the White House Counsel said because of attorney-client privilege, but the *fact* that he reviewed the letter and blocked it is *not* privileged. The letter's contents can be used as evidence of the President's intent when he fired Comey, and its rejection by the White House Counsel suggests that he was on notice that his conduct was legally problematic. That could help Mueller prove that Trump had "corrupt" intent when firing Comey.
You can expect Miller to be heavily questioned about the letter--the fact that Mueller has the letter suggests that executive privilege has been waived, and Mueller could probably overcome it in any event. Every participant in those conversations will be asked about what the President said and what he was told by others during those conversations. There's no magic telescope that sees into a person's brain, so the best evidence of someone's intent is their own words and actions, as well as how they reacted to the words and actions of others. Also, as @rgoodlaw noted in the tweet below, Miller may have implicated *himself* through his actions.
@rgoodlaw: Big implication from NYT scoop: Stephen Miller perhaps implicated in conspiracy to obstruct justice (DJT then an unindicted co-conspirator)
If Miller agreed with Trump to obstruct justice, that's a crime called conspiracy and he's responsible for the acts of a co-conspirator. If he knew about obstruction and helped it succeed, that's also a crime--it's called aiding and abetting. So even if Mueller can't indict the President, there might still be an obstruction indictment given the involvement of others in the conduct.
---
@renato_mariotti
THREAD: What do the contents of the letter Stephen Miller wrote for Trump about firing Comey mean for Mueller's obstruction investigation? Earlier today, @nytimes reported that Mueller had a draft of Miller's letter. I discussed that at length here: [above] Just now, @washingtonpost reported details of the letter in the story below: Mueller examining Trump’s draft letter firing FBI Director Comey I won't repeat what I said in the last thread, but as background, the letter written by Miller was a draft written at Trump's request. Now the @washingtonpost reports that the letter contained Trump's complaint that Comey wouldn't say Trump wasn't under investigation. Mueller could ask a juror to infer that Trump intended to fire Comey in order to replace him with someone who would ensure that he was not personally investigated.
The @washingtonpost story also mentions that Ivanka and Kushner were part of the group, with Miller, discussing the Comey firing with Trump. That corroborates an earlier report that Bannon said those three were involved in the firing. It also means that Kushner (and Ivanka) now has additional potential liability, along with Miller. At the very least, they are witnesses. Another aspect of the @nytimes story that I want to clarify here relates to their reporting that the WH Counsel rejected the letter written by Miller.
In the prior thread, I said that it's unlikely that Mueller could obtain the contents of the WH Counsel's advice to Trump on this topic because he was acting in his capacity as President when he fired Comey. @AlisonFrankel of @Reuters asked me some good questions on this topic and I've done some research. The most analogous case is when Starr issued a grand jury subpoena for documents created by the WH Counsel during conversations with then-First Lady @HillaryClinton. Although the trial judge ruled that the documents were privileged, the Court of Appeals reversed (112 F.3d 910) and held that attorney-client privilege did not protect communications with the First Lady (who Starr conceded was a government employee) from a grand jury subpoena. There are reasons to believe the outcome could be different here, and there are multiple ways Trump could assert privilege to try to block the disclosure of that advice (perhaps by arguing that he had a genuine belief that the WH Counsel represented him personally), but there is some reason to believe Mueller could obtain the advice that Trump received. That advice could be very important to Mueller, if WH Counsel raised potential issues relating to obstruction of justice. ADDENDUM: As @AlisonFrankel pointed out, the Bruce Lindsey Court of Appeals case made this point even clearly--no attorney-client privilege.
posted by chris24 at 2:03 PM on September 1, 2017 [25 favorites]
there is some reason to believe Mueller could obtain the advice that Trump received
Not least of which is that everything else is leaking like a sieve, and there are probably at least some people with access to that advice who despise Trump and wish him ill.
posted by Coventry at 2:15 PM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
Not least of which is that everything else is leaking like a sieve, and there are probably at least some people with access to that advice who despise Trump and wish him ill.
posted by Coventry at 2:15 PM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
There's also the fact that the right thing to do is probably to expel a Senator convicted of corruption.
There is no right thing anymore, there is only what maintains enough power to stop Republicans from doing the most evil thing. All norms are dead. Playing by the "rules" is what lost Democrats everything.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:17 PM on September 1, 2017 [14 favorites]
There is no right thing anymore, there is only what maintains enough power to stop Republicans from doing the most evil thing. All norms are dead. Playing by the "rules" is what lost Democrats everything.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:17 PM on September 1, 2017 [14 favorites]
Personally I encourage Republicans to load up Obamacare Repeal again for the next fiscal year. Combine it with tax cuts for millionaires! Go ahead, see how popular that is during an election year. I dare you.
posted by Glibpaxman at 2:19 PM on September 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Glibpaxman at 2:19 PM on September 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
McCan blasts trump for some reason ('We don't answer to him': McCain calls Trump 'poorly informed,' 'impulsive' in blistering op-ed, Alex Lockie, Business Insider, September 1, 2017)
In a blistering op-ed article for The Washington Post published Thursday night, the Arizona Republican called on Americans to focus on "shared values" rather than differences. McCain denounced the "repugnant spectacle of white supremacists marching in Charlottesville" and lauded Heather Heyer, the counterprotester killed at the rally by a man thought to be a white supremacist.
But
You knew there was a but.
posted by petebest at 2:22 PM on September 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
In a blistering op-ed article for The Washington Post published Thursday night, the Arizona Republican called on Americans to focus on "shared values" rather than differences. McCain denounced the "repugnant spectacle of white supremacists marching in Charlottesville" and lauded Heather Heyer, the counterprotester killed at the rally by a man thought to be a white supremacist.
But
You knew there was a but.
posted by petebest at 2:22 PM on September 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
Is anyone else constantly wishing MeFi had a Sad React?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:25 PM on September 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:25 PM on September 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
Even Russia is fucking with Trump these days.
@JuliaDavisNews
Politician on #Russia's state TV:
US doesn't have an adequate President, just an elderly, barely competent, nervously weary, fussy showman.
VIDEO
@JuliaDavisNews
#Russia's state TV host pours more gas on the fire, saying:
"So why did we elect such a President?
Audience claps.
VIDEO
posted by chris24 at 2:25 PM on September 1, 2017 [57 favorites]
@JuliaDavisNews
Politician on #Russia's state TV:
US doesn't have an adequate President, just an elderly, barely competent, nervously weary, fussy showman.
VIDEO
@JuliaDavisNews
#Russia's state TV host pours more gas on the fire, saying:
"So why did we elect such a President?
Audience claps.
VIDEO
posted by chris24 at 2:25 PM on September 1, 2017 [57 favorites]
I'd be interested to know if that's a joke saying "these foolish Americans think we elected their president", or an acknowledgment that Putin helped elect the President. What is the commonly-held belief among Russian people?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:28 PM on September 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:28 PM on September 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
‘This man knows too much’: Ex-Bush ethics czar says Trump is afraid to fire Stephen Miller
Well, if it was really drafted by Stephen Miller, noted C+ Santa Monica Fascict, we can all be assured it's a steaming pile of rhetoric.
The average Santa Monica temp for Sept 1 is 71F. The record high is 89F. Right now it is 112F and feels like 117F. I assume Miller is back in town.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:48 PM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Well, if it was really drafted by Stephen Miller, noted C+ Santa Monica Fascict, we can all be assured it's a steaming pile of rhetoric.
The average Santa Monica temp for Sept 1 is 71F. The record high is 89F. Right now it is 112F and feels like 117F. I assume Miller is back in town.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:48 PM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Tennessee Attorney General Backs Out Of DACA Lawsuit Threat (Matt Shuham, TPM). Huh?
posted by AwkwardPause at 2:49 PM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by AwkwardPause at 2:49 PM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Maybe that means Trump is going to keep DACA and Herbert Slatery III doesn't want to be on the receiving end of an angry tweet?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:52 PM on September 1, 2017
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:52 PM on September 1, 2017
FWIW there's no way in hell, literally, it is currently 112F in Santa Monica. Malfunctioning sensor or something.
posted by Justinian at 2:53 PM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 2:53 PM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
(That said, it's still a record high. Just not... 112F. Jesus.)
posted by Justinian at 2:53 PM on September 1, 2017
posted by Justinian at 2:53 PM on September 1, 2017
And some insistent phone calls have been made from 1600 Penn Ave?
posted by AwkwardPause at 2:53 PM on September 1, 2017
posted by AwkwardPause at 2:53 PM on September 1, 2017
The Russian Consulate in San Francisco has to shut down tomorrow and there's an awful lot of smoke pouring out of the chimney.
I mean, maybe I've seen too many movies, but isn't it somewhat to be expected that a soon-to-be shuttered consulate would destroy sensitive materials?
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:56 PM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
I mean, maybe I've seen too many movies, but isn't it somewhat to be expected that a soon-to-be shuttered consulate would destroy sensitive materials?
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:56 PM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
Holy shit, which little weather station is that, Room 641-A? I just got back from a lunch break walk around the Promenade, and it's about 90 here.
Anyway, I'll be delighted if this obstruction of justice mess all hinges on noted C+ Santa Monica fascist Stephen Miller, but I'm not reading too much into Miller hanging on while others have left.
posted by yasaman at 2:57 PM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Anyway, I'll be delighted if this obstruction of justice mess all hinges on noted C+ Santa Monica fascist Stephen Miller, but I'm not reading too much into Miller hanging on while others have left.
posted by yasaman at 2:57 PM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's F5 o'clock on the Friday before a three-day weekend in late summer 2017. Nothing is happening and it's making me itchy.
posted by Donald Trump Sex Nightmare at 2:59 PM on September 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Donald Trump Sex Nightmare at 2:59 PM on September 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'd be interested to know if that's a joke saying "these foolish Americans think we elected their president", or an acknowledgment that Putin helped elect the President. What is the commonly-held belief among Russian people?
Just asked a Russian colleague, his take (to be taken with salt because he hasn't lived in Russia for a decade but his family is there) is that everyone knows Russia attempted to interfere with the election, what level that reached and how successful it was only some people may know, but it's funny nonetheless to joke about.
Also my car in Santa Monica an hour ago showed 100 F.
posted by cell divide at 3:00 PM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Just asked a Russian colleague, his take (to be taken with salt because he hasn't lived in Russia for a decade but his family is there) is that everyone knows Russia attempted to interfere with the election, what level that reached and how successful it was only some people may know, but it's funny nonetheless to joke about.
Also my car in Santa Monica an hour ago showed 100 F.
posted by cell divide at 3:00 PM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
I bet that their protocol is to burn everything rather than leaving it behind, sensitive or not.
posted by VTX at 3:01 PM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by VTX at 3:01 PM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
If the smoke coming from the chimneys of the Russian Consulate changes from black to white will that mean they've selected a new American President?
posted by tilde at 3:10 PM on September 1, 2017 [58 favorites]
posted by tilde at 3:10 PM on September 1, 2017 [58 favorites]
There's nothing actually abnormal about it, no, but it's funny, and San Francisco is having the hottest day it has ever recorded right now, which makes having a big fire even more hilarious.
If the Bay Area Air Quality Management District can't stop Russia from violating US law though, I don't think anyone can.
posted by zachlipton at 3:14 PM on September 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
If the Bay Area Air Quality Management District can't stop Russia from violating US law though, I don't think anyone can.
posted by zachlipton at 3:14 PM on September 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
(I am not kidding about the air district. I mean, I was earlier, but they were serious. They have sent an inspector. Do not taunt BAAQMD.)
posted by zachlipton at 3:16 PM on September 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 3:16 PM on September 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
Yeah, the burning is normal. Most of it is probably pretty mundane, but some of the papers are coded correspondence between the Russians and seals they were able to turn at Fisherman's Wharf
posted by orange ball at 3:16 PM on September 1, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by orange ball at 3:16 PM on September 1, 2017 [12 favorites]
Important new revelations about The Crying Nazi's attorney
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:17 PM on September 1, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:17 PM on September 1, 2017 [20 favorites]
I bet Pee Tape makes a really toxic smoke
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:19 PM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:19 PM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
Important new revelations about The Crying Nazi's attorney
OK now I'm sad
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:20 PM on September 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
OK now I'm sad
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:20 PM on September 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
RE: Gov. Ducey appointing McCain's replacement, I recall that Ducey was opposed to repealing Obamacare, at least inasmuch as McCain said he would defer to Ducey's wishes in not voting to repeal. So a replacement for McCain might not necessarily be in favor of repeal (if, if, if).
Really looking forward to Flake being handed his hat, too. We may be able to secure one of those two seats soon.
posted by darkstar at 3:23 PM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Really looking forward to Flake being handed his hat, too. We may be able to secure one of those two seats soon.
posted by darkstar at 3:23 PM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
TRUMP LOVES PEOPLE.
It's a cookbook!
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 3:31 PM on September 1, 2017 [75 favorites]
It's a cookbook!
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 3:31 PM on September 1, 2017 [75 favorites]
The Times story on the Comey firing memo has been significantly updated with new information about how Trump decided to fire Comey while brooding inside because it was raining and he had to cancel his golf game with Greg Norman. There's a lot in there, but especially:
As an absolute minimum first step, Rosenstein cannot oversee Mueller in any capacity. Here he is an active participant in the events under investigation.
And some top-notch decisionmaking on display here:
During the May 8 Oval Office meeting with Mr. Trump, Mr. Rosenstein was given a copy of the original letter and agreed to to write a separate memo for Mr. Trump about why Mr. Comey should be fired.In other words, Trump dictated his "screed" of a letter to Miller, then they gave that letter to Rosenstein, Rosenstein writes his own letter, and then the White House passed it all off as coming from Rosenstein.
Mr. Rosenstein’s memo arrived at the White House the next day. The lengthy diatribe Mr. Miller had written had been replaced by a simpler rationale — that Mr. Comey should be dismissed because of his handling of the Clinton email investigation. Unlike Mr. Trump’s letter, it made no mention of the times Mr. Comey had told the president he was not under investigation.
As an absolute minimum first step, Rosenstein cannot oversee Mueller in any capacity. Here he is an active participant in the events under investigation.
And some top-notch decisionmaking on display here:
Mr. McGahn met again that same day with Mr. Trump and told him that if he fired Mr. Comey, the Russia investigation would not go away. Mr. Trump told him, according to senior administration officials, that he understood that firing the F.B.I. director might extend the Russia investigation, but he wanted to do it anyway.posted by zachlipton at 3:36 PM on September 1, 2017 [44 favorites]
he understood that firing the F.B.I. director might extend the Russia investigation, but he wanted to do it anyway.
This falls under "loves vengeance; no comprehension of consequences." He still doesn't believe anything's going to happen to him because of the investigation - he just wants it gone because it makes the media say mean things about him. And he was willing to put up with a few extra mean things in order to "punish" someone who'd caused him grief.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:48 PM on September 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
This falls under "loves vengeance; no comprehension of consequences." He still doesn't believe anything's going to happen to him because of the investigation - he just wants it gone because it makes the media say mean things about him. And he was willing to put up with a few extra mean things in order to "punish" someone who'd caused him grief.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:48 PM on September 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
if Democrats refuse to expel Menendez despite being convicted of corruption it would set a precedent for Republicans to refuse to impeach Trump even if Mueller finds him to be guilty of something like Obstruction of Justice or financial impropriety.
There's a better alternative -- just delay the explusion until January, when Chris Christie is no longer governmor and will undoubtedly be replaced by a Democrat. (Also, have Menendez delay the progress of the trial as much as possible before conviction.) Dems could call for hearings in January using pressing budget/health care/tax reform issues and the holidays as an excuse, or just point out that the Obama Supreme Court precedent gives them ample justification for denying a lame duck governor the right to make a crucial pick.
posted by msalt at 3:51 PM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
There's a better alternative -- just delay the explusion until January, when Chris Christie is no longer governmor and will undoubtedly be replaced by a Democrat. (Also, have Menendez delay the progress of the trial as much as possible before conviction.) Dems could call for hearings in January using pressing budget/health care/tax reform issues and the holidays as an excuse, or just point out that the Obama Supreme Court precedent gives them ample justification for denying a lame duck governor the right to make a crucial pick.
posted by msalt at 3:51 PM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
or just point out that the Obama Supreme Court precedent gives them ample justification for denying a lame duck governor the right to make a crucial pick.
AKA invoke the McConnell Doctrine.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:54 PM on September 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
AKA invoke the McConnell Doctrine.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:54 PM on September 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
Makes you wonder about Rosenstein's thought process in deciding to appoint Mueller, since Rosenstein seeing the original letter and agreeing to write a more palatable excuse would seem to implicate him in obstruction.
I'm thinking Rosenstein gave up that information and possibly the first letter or the knowledge of its existence as soon as Mueller was in place. Somewhere between cutting a deal and a kind of rock-and-a-hard-place decision to write the second letter to keep his job to be in a position to appoint Mueller as a more effective move than refusing to write the letter and resigning?
posted by jason_steakums at 3:58 PM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm thinking Rosenstein gave up that information and possibly the first letter or the knowledge of its existence as soon as Mueller was in place. Somewhere between cutting a deal and a kind of rock-and-a-hard-place decision to write the second letter to keep his job to be in a position to appoint Mueller as a more effective move than refusing to write the letter and resigning?
posted by jason_steakums at 3:58 PM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Aaaand now it's obvious exactly why:
1. He's willing to defend a Nazi, and
2. His office wishes it was a busted up trailer.
posted by darkstar at 4:06 PM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
1. He's willing to defend a Nazi, and
2. His office wishes it was a busted up trailer.
posted by darkstar at 4:06 PM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
Oh my god, the whole Crying Nazi's Lawyer thread is right up there with Felix Sater's harrassment domain names, but the part where he objected to the prosecutor using video of his client the Crying Nazi on grounds of hearsay made me LOL so hard I strained my pancreas.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:12 PM on September 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:12 PM on September 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
Elmer Woodard practicing law is like the pottery scene from Ghost but with the ghost of Strom Thurmond.
posted by jason_steakums at 4:12 PM on September 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 4:12 PM on September 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
Trump's World of Luxury Real Estate Is Fueled By Money-Laundering
The fact that money-launderers flock to luxury real estate is nothing new, and isn't much of a mystery either. It's the direct result of a major loophole in U.S. government rules that require banks to report cash deposits over $10,000 -- but allow property owners to accept $10 million in cash for a condo without divulging who gave it to them.
posted by adamvasco at 4:13 PM on September 1, 2017 [34 favorites]
The fact that money-launderers flock to luxury real estate is nothing new, and isn't much of a mystery either. It's the direct result of a major loophole in U.S. government rules that require banks to report cash deposits over $10,000 -- but allow property owners to accept $10 million in cash for a condo without divulging who gave it to them.
posted by adamvasco at 4:13 PM on September 1, 2017 [34 favorites]
(Also, have Menendez delay the progress of the trial as much as possible before conviction.)
He tried to have the trial delayed for reasons of DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM and got slapped down pretty good.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 4:14 PM on September 1, 2017
He tried to have the trial delayed for reasons of DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM and got slapped down pretty good.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 4:14 PM on September 1, 2017
White House walks back promise about Trump donating his ‘personal money’ to Harvey victims
No one could have predicted
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:15 PM on September 1, 2017 [70 favorites]
No one could have predicted
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:15 PM on September 1, 2017 [70 favorites]
Matt Damon on [not] filming a scene with trump:
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:19 PM on September 1, 2017 [36 favorites]
Have you ever met Trump?(via Twitter)
No. The deal was that if you wanted to shoot in one of his buildings, you had to write him in a part. [Director] Martin Brest had to write something in Scent of a Woman — and the whole crew was in on it. You have to waste an hour of your day with a bullshit shot: Donald Trump walks in and Al Pacino's like, "Hello, Mr. Trump!" — you had to call him by name — and then he exits. You waste a little time so that you can get the permit, and then you can cut the scene out. But I guess in Home Alone 2 they left it in.
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:19 PM on September 1, 2017 [36 favorites]
Ok the Russian Consulate story just keeps getting more hilarious. Here's John Gioia, Contra Costa County Supervisor and member of the Air District board:
posted by zachlipton at 4:20 PM on September 1, 2017 [11 favorites]
Added to the backdrop of allegations of Russian meddling in the election and the ongoing probe, Gioia said Friday’s chimney smoke only “adds fuel to the fire.”And here are Consulate staffers making sure to take their laundry detergent with them.
“We already know the Russians messed with our election, now they are messing with our air quality,”
posted by zachlipton at 4:20 PM on September 1, 2017 [11 favorites]
2. His office wishes it was a busted up trailer.
am I the only one who thinks that law office is super cool?
posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:21 PM on September 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
am I the only one who thinks that law office is super cool?
posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:21 PM on September 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
Stephen Miller, one of Mr. Trump’s top advisors, helped the president draft a letter explaining the rationale for firing Mr. Comey.
Miller, is you taking dictation on a criminal fuckin' conspiracy to obstruct justice?
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:26 PM on September 1, 2017 [13 favorites]
Miller, is you taking dictation on a criminal fuckin' conspiracy to obstruct justice?
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:26 PM on September 1, 2017 [13 favorites]
am I the only one who thinks that law office is super cool?
I suppose it could be cool, if you were either Jake or The Fatman.
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:26 PM on September 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
I suppose it could be cool, if you were either Jake or The Fatman.
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:26 PM on September 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
Good FT backgrounder on Trump's relationship with Deusche Bank and matters pertaining. (Tweet, follow link to bypass FT paywall.)
posted by Devonian at 4:27 PM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 4:27 PM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
am I the only one who thinks that law office is super cool?
Nope, I too am a fan of tiny buildings like this vacuum cleaner store.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:33 PM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Nope, I too am a fan of tiny buildings like this vacuum cleaner store.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:33 PM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
That office makes me think I paid my cut-rate bail bondsman too much because the hovel he's in puts that "law office" to shame.
posted by thebrokedown at 4:42 PM on September 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by thebrokedown at 4:42 PM on September 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
Makes you wonder about Rosenstein's thought process in deciding to appoint Mueller, since Rosenstein seeing the original letter and agreeing to write a more palatable excuse would seem to implicate him in obstruction.
One of the things that came up when Rosenstein appointed Mueller and in his comments in the weeks after was that several things he said made it sound like he had witnessed a crime.
New Republic: Did Rod Rosenstein let it slip that he may have been witness to a crime?
I just didn't figure he would end up being a overt participant in that crime.
posted by chris24 at 4:55 PM on September 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
One of the things that came up when Rosenstein appointed Mueller and in his comments in the weeks after was that several things he said made it sound like he had witnessed a crime.
New Republic: Did Rod Rosenstein let it slip that he may have been witness to a crime?
I just didn't figure he would end up being a overt participant in that crime.
posted by chris24 at 4:55 PM on September 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
I can envision an entire alternate life for myself where I ended up a lawyer, practicing out of that little office building, and it would be awesome. I'd make most of my money drafting contracts for local businesses and such, of course, but sometimes I'd be able to represent someone against a predatory landlord, or go to bat for a charity that got ripped off, or help someone with a complicated estate, and I'd be happy and proud to walk into my little office every day.
It'd be pretty miserable if I was a nazi, though.
posted by MrVisible at 4:55 PM on September 1, 2017 [20 favorites]
It'd be pretty miserable if I was a nazi, though.
posted by MrVisible at 4:55 PM on September 1, 2017 [20 favorites]
Those two financial stories written Wednesday and Thursday respectively make it seem like the Trump o'clocks are getting closer and more common: Trump laundered millions, made millions and is now in charge of everything that threatened his grifts or all his grifty grifters club members.
posted by petebest at 4:59 PM on September 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
Meanwhile, Trump is welcoming a major figure in luxury U.S. real estate money-laundering to the White House on September 12: Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak.(Dan Froomkin, ACSlaw.org, Aug 31)
The Justice Department last year began the process of seizing more than $1 billion in assets of the 1Malaysia Development Berhad, the government-owned investment fund founded by Najib. Then-Attorney General Loretta E. Lynch called it "the largest single action ever brought under the Kleptocracy Asset Recovery Initiative." . . . Najeeb might even bring this up in conversation with Trump: The assets are currently frozen, but they haven't actually been seized yet.
But the elevation of the Queens-born developer to the presidency has cast a new complexion on the relationship. Deutsche faces various legal proceedings in the US, including an investigation by the Department of Justice into a Russian money-laundering scheme for which the bank paid about $600m of fines to other regulators in January. It is also facing a probe by the DoJ into whether Deutsche’s traders, and those of other banks, manipulated the prices of US Treasuries.(Ben McLannahan, Kara Scannell and Gary Silverman, Financial Times, Aug 30)
posted by petebest at 4:59 PM on September 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
Useful links for talking to white people about being unknowingly white-centric:
Feisty Thoughts blog, Why I Stopped Talking About Racial Reconciliation and Started Talking About White Supremacy ("Racial Reconciliation," I gather, is a well-intentioned, mostly white Christian concept meant to get better results than superficial appearances of diversity):
Miguel Clark Mallet, Carrying The Weight of How The White World Imagines You:
Erynn Brook, White Feelings: 0-60 for Charlottesville:
Feisty Thoughts blog, Why I Stopped Talking About Racial Reconciliation and Started Talking About White Supremacy ("Racial Reconciliation," I gather, is a well-intentioned, mostly white Christian concept meant to get better results than superficial appearances of diversity):
Most of my crowd was taught to use the terms white privilege and racial reconciliation. Here is why I no longer focus on them and instead teach on white supremacy. . . . Racial Reconciliation, because it is so preoccupied with the good intentions of whiteness and its allies, considers POC leaving sad, but no reflection on them. In the canary in the mine analogy- the death (departure) of POC, particularly Black, Latino, Native, and SE Asian people is sad, sort of confusing, but is really an indicator that the bird was just not a good fit for the mine.
White supremacy says- “HEY! That bird died cause your well intentioned mine is toxic. It is on you, it is on the mine, to stop being toxic. It is not on the canary to become immune to deadly fumes.”
Miguel Clark Mallet, Carrying The Weight of How The White World Imagines You:
How do you contend with someone else’s fantasy of you, especially when they don’t admit it’s a fantasy? We are caught in another’s nightmare script, which treats everyday acts as capital crimes.
Erynn Brook, White Feelings: 0-60 for Charlottesville:
. . . 10. "I just want life to go back to normal." Your normal was what led to this. Things cannot go back, I’m sorry that you’re uncomfortable now, but this is the reality that people of color have been living with forever. There is no normal. . . . 24. "I feel really targeted with all this talk of white people." I know. You’ll get used to it. It won’t always paralyze you. . . . 40. "I’m supposed to listen to the voices of people of color." Yes you are. 41. "You’re white." Yes I am. 42. "Why should I listen to you?" Because you’re in your feelings and it’s my job to collect you and keep that emotional labor from people of color who are fighting on the front lines. The people being pepper-sprayed right now don’t have the time to talk you through your guilt. . . . "posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 5:02 PM on September 1, 2017 [40 favorites]
NYT, Thrush/Haberman, Forceful Chief of Staff Grates on Trump, and the Feeling Is Mutual (emphasis added):
posted by zachlipton at 5:04 PM on September 1, 2017 [54 favorites]
President Trump was in an especially ornery mood after staff members gently suggested he refrain from injecting politics into day-to-day issues of governing after last month’s raucous rally in Arizona, and he responded by lashing out at the most senior aide in his presence.I've got to say, the difference between "time to think" Trump and regular Trump isn't all that large.
It happened to be his new chief of staff, John F. Kelly.
Mr. Kelly, the former Marine general brought in five weeks ago as the successor to Reince Priebus, reacted calmly, but he later told other White House staff members that he had never been spoken to like that during 35 years of serving his country. In the future, he said, he would not abide such treatment, according to three people familiar with the exchange.
...
The president, for his part, has marveled at the installation of management controls that would have been considered routine in any other White House.
“I now have time to think,” a surprised Mr. Trump has told one of his senior aides repeatedly over the last few weeks.
Mr. Kelly cannot stop Mr. Trump from binge-watching Fox News, which aides describe as the president’s primary source of information gathering. But Mr. Trump does not have a web browser on his phone, and does not use a laptop, so he was dependent on aides like Stephen K. Bannon, his former chief strategist, to hand-deliver printouts of articles from conservative media outlets.
Now Mr. Kelly has thinned out his package of printouts so much that Mr. Trump plaintively asked a friend recently where The Daily Caller and Breitbart were.
posted by zachlipton at 5:04 PM on September 1, 2017 [54 favorites]
Trump laundered millions, made millions and is now in charge of everything that threatened his grifts or all his grifty grifters club members.
It's like Putin is franchising his business model.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:10 PM on September 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
It's like Putin is franchising his business model.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:10 PM on September 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
In the future, he said, he would not abide such treatment, according to three people familiar with the exchange.
I hope this next encounter looks like this.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:14 PM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
I hope this next encounter looks like this.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:14 PM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
Why the Right is Suddenly Terrified of Political Violence (The Daily Banter):
Now that some Republicans were the target of political violence and there is an organized resistance to white nationalism, we're supposed to panic about the heated rhetoric that's been the norm for the past decade or so. The right is tripping over itself to demonize the left and tie antifa to the Democratic Party. The House GOP is demanding bodyguards now. They're growing uneasy and they should. Political violence from the left is a completely different beast from the right wing violence we're all used to aggressively ignoring.posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:17 PM on September 1, 2017 [54 favorites]
Here's the thing: Right wing violence is based on lies. All of it. They claim that the government is coming for their guns or that Obama is secretly working with terrorists to destroy America. They say that liberals want to make everyone's children into gay atheist baby killers. They say that Latino immigrants are the cause of a massive increase in crime and blacks want to rape their white women. They literally believed that a military exercise in Texas was the prelude to a government takeover of America (you know, the country the government currently runs). They literally believe that liberals are setting up detention centers for conservatives inside of empty Walmarts. They literally believe Hillary Clinton runs a child sex ring out of the basement of a pizza place.
Mr. Trump does not have a web browser on his phone, and does not use a laptop
And of course, can't possibly do something as old-fashioned as subscribe to newspapers or magazines, which aren't going to be nearly biased enough to feed him the kind of news he wants.
Too bad the Onion went out of print.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 5:19 PM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
And of course, can't possibly do something as old-fashioned as subscribe to newspapers or magazines, which aren't going to be nearly biased enough to feed him the kind of news he wants.
Too bad the Onion went out of print.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 5:19 PM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Mr. Kelly . . . reacted calmly, but he later told other White House staff members that he had never been spoken to like that during 35 years of serving his country. In the future, he said, he would not abide such treatment, according to three people familiar with the exchange.
Thas some fucked up shit, right there. I mean, having to take shit from a guy like Trump has got to suuuuuuck. Who knows, Trump might choke on a pretzel next week.
posted by petebest at 5:19 PM on September 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
Thas some fucked up shit, right there. I mean, having to take shit from a guy like Trump has got to suuuuuuck. Who knows, Trump might choke on a pretzel next week.
posted by petebest at 5:19 PM on September 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
Andrew Harrer at WSJ with a few more details on the Comey firing letter.
Mr. Trump, who worked on the draft at his golf club in Bedminster, N.J., in early May, wanted Mr. Comey to publicly state the president wasn’t personally under investigation in connection to Russia meddling in the 2016 presidential election—an assurance the director had previously given the president privately, a person familiar with the matter said.posted by OnceUponATime at 5:24 PM on September 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
Paraphrasing the letter, the administration official said Mr. Trump wanted this message sent: “You’ve told me three times I’m not under investigation but you won’t tell the world, and it’s hampering the country.”
...
Mr. Trump sought to take action because he saw the lingering investigation as a weight on his presidency, underscored by conversations with some foreign leaders who would bring up the Russia probe, according to the administration official. The president wrote the four-page letter with the help of a senior White House aide, Stephen Miller.
“It was the president’s ideas. Miller was the scrivener,” the administration official said.
WSJ has yet more on the Comey memo:
posted by zachlipton at 5:25 PM on September 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
Paraphrasing the letter, the administration official said Mr. Trump wanted this message sent: “You’ve told me three times I’m not under investigation but you won’t tell the world, and it’s hampering the country.”It also says Trump was getting annoyed because foreign leaders kept mentioning the Russia investigation and he didn't like that it rained on his golf trip.
posted by zachlipton at 5:25 PM on September 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
Rosenstien is not just a witness, he should be a for suspect of obstruction of justice himself. He must resign, not just from oversight of Mueller, but from the DOJ.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:26 PM on September 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:26 PM on September 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
“It was the president’s ideas. Miller was the scrivener,” the administration official said.
I've always suspected that as important as he wants people to think he is, Miller is just Trump's Smithers.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:32 PM on September 1, 2017 [16 favorites]
I've always suspected that as important as he wants people to think he is, Miller is just Trump's Smithers.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:32 PM on September 1, 2017 [16 favorites]
“It was the president’s ideas. Miller was the scrivener,” the administration official said.
I've always suspected that as important as he wants people to think he is, Miller is just Trump's Smithers.
But he would prefer not to be.
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:33 PM on September 1, 2017 [30 favorites]
I've always suspected that as important as he wants people to think he is, Miller is just Trump's Smithers.
But he would prefer not to be.
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:33 PM on September 1, 2017 [30 favorites]
Rosenstien is not just a witness, he should be a for suspect of obstruction of justice himself. He must resign, not just from oversight of Mueller, but from the DOJ.
If he did, Trump would probably replace him with some fucknut who's been blogging about white "race traitors" for the last ten years. (More realistically, Sessions would replace him with someone useful and compliant.)
posted by sebastienbailard at 5:48 PM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
If he did, Trump would probably replace him with some fucknut who's been blogging about white "race traitors" for the last ten years. (More realistically, Sessions would replace him with someone useful and compliant.)
posted by sebastienbailard at 5:48 PM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
" . . . you won’t tell the world, and it’s hampering the country."
Three of the pages were just WAHH WAAAAHHH but the last page was torn and had spit-up on it. [fake?]
hampering the country? Like hampering the progress of a country? I mean, as a country we're pretty hampered, but our hamperage didn't come from Co- *gasp*
posted by petebest at 5:52 PM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Three of the pages were just WAHH WAAAAHHH but the last page was torn and had spit-up on it. [fake?]
hampering the country? Like hampering the progress of a country? I mean, as a country we're pretty hampered, but our hamperage didn't come from Co- *gasp*
posted by petebest at 5:52 PM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
We wouldn't be so hampered if our president had less dirty laundry.
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:57 PM on September 1, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:57 PM on September 1, 2017 [30 favorites]
Good lord, with that kind of precedent the Republicans might one day, heaven forfend, elect the most corrupt president in the history of the nation.
posted by Behemoth at 6:08 PM on September 1, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by Behemoth at 6:08 PM on September 1, 2017 [20 favorites]
“It was the president’s ideas. Miller was the scrivener,” the administration official said.
Breitbartleby the Scrivener
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:09 PM on September 1, 2017 [88 favorites]
Breitbartleby the Scrivener
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:09 PM on September 1, 2017 [88 favorites]
NYT, Thrush/Haberman, Forceful Chief of Staff Grates on Trump, and the Feeling Is Mutual (emphasis added):
in other news, this may be the first time in history anyone has missed reince priebus
posted by murphy slaw at 6:14 PM on September 1, 2017 [19 favorites]
in other news, this may be the first time in history anyone has missed reince priebus
posted by murphy slaw at 6:14 PM on September 1, 2017 [19 favorites]
hampering the country? Like hampering the progress of a country? I mean, as a country we're pretty hampered, but our hamperage didn't come from Co- *gasp*
You were gonna say covfefe weren't you
posted by phearlez at 6:17 PM on September 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
You were gonna say covfefe weren't you
posted by phearlez at 6:17 PM on September 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
Where is old Reincy these days? I imagine half digested into the fungal omnimind of some lobbying firm or think tank.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:20 PM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by jason_steakums at 6:20 PM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Where is old Reincy these days?
Priebus plastered himself a chrysalis of secretions and shredded Wall Street Journals and is currently budding off miniature cloned Priebi.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:22 PM on September 1, 2017 [29 favorites]
Priebus plastered himself a chrysalis of secretions and shredded Wall Street Journals and is currently budding off miniature cloned Priebi.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:22 PM on September 1, 2017 [29 favorites]
Good point. Pence would seem to be at a minimum a witness to a possible crime, if not a co-conspirator.
posted by chris24 at 6:43 PM on September 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 6:43 PM on September 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
am I the only one who thinks that law office is super cool?
It's pretty cool if you're a private detective, or a vigilante for hire, but not for a lawyer
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:45 PM on September 1, 2017 [12 favorites]
It's pretty cool if you're a private detective, or a vigilante for hire, but not for a lawyer
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:45 PM on September 1, 2017 [12 favorites]
From the WashPo article on Kelly:
The question now is how long Mr. Kelly will stay, with estimates ranging from a month to a year at the most. White House officials say that Mr. Kelly has given no indication he intends to leave anytime soon. He has thrown himself into long-term planning of the administration’s tax reform push, the president’s Asia trip in November and scheduling for the next several months, they said. Mr. Kelly declined through a White House spokeswoman to comment for this article.
So.....three weeks?
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:50 PM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
The question now is how long Mr. Kelly will stay, with estimates ranging from a month to a year at the most. White House officials say that Mr. Kelly has given no indication he intends to leave anytime soon. He has thrown himself into long-term planning of the administration’s tax reform push, the president’s Asia trip in November and scheduling for the next several months, they said. Mr. Kelly declined through a White House spokeswoman to comment for this article.
So.....three weeks?
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:50 PM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
am I the only one who thinks that law office is super cool?
It's pretty cool if you're a private detective, or a vigilante for hire, but not for a lawyer
Aren't we burying the lede? From those tweets:
This appears to be a photo of Crying Nazi's attorney (who dressed similarly in court)
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:53 PM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's pretty cool if you're a private detective, or a vigilante for hire, but not for a lawyer
Aren't we burying the lede? From those tweets:
This appears to be a photo of Crying Nazi's attorney (who dressed similarly in court)
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:53 PM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
Whenever I read "Crying Nazi" I think of Franz Liebkind (Kenneth Mars) from The Producers: Der Führer does not say, "Achtung, baby."
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:02 PM on September 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:02 PM on September 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
> I'm old enough to remember when the presidency unduly aged the office-holder, not the citizenry.
Covfefe was three months ago. Only 1158 days, 2 hours, and 57 minutes until the 2020 Presidential Election.
> It's a cookbook!
I just got this reference. It's the same actor, too!
posted by guiseroom at 7:02 PM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
Covfefe was three months ago. Only 1158 days, 2 hours, and 57 minutes until the 2020 Presidential Election.
> It's a cookbook!
I just got this reference. It's the same actor, too!
posted by guiseroom at 7:02 PM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
Trump’s bodyguard Keith Schiller abruptly resigns.
posted by adamvasco at 7:16 PM on September 1, 2017
posted by adamvasco at 7:16 PM on September 1, 2017
Have a source that's not Palmer Report?
posted by zachlipton at 7:17 PM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by zachlipton at 7:17 PM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
I see what you did there. And am offended.
take these favorites and meet me behind the office depot after Kimmel.
posted by petebest at 7:41 PM on September 1, 2017
take these favorites and meet me behind the office depot after Kimmel.
posted by petebest at 7:41 PM on September 1, 2017
Wow that is a terrible name unless you were hoping to start a niche porn site.
About the woman who is running for Mayor of Charlotte and included the description of "white"... I couldn't help thinking the VP has missed this from his self description. Maybe his 2020 Presidential campaign bio will read: Mike Pence: Christian, Conservative, Republican, White.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:41 PM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
About the woman who is running for Mayor of Charlotte and included the description of "white"... I couldn't help thinking the VP has missed this from his self description. Maybe his 2020 Presidential campaign bio will read: Mike Pence: Christian, Conservative, Republican, White.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:41 PM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
(It would not be a bad thing if links to the Palmer Report were automatically deleted here.)
posted by neroli at 7:44 PM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by neroli at 7:44 PM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
Even better (take two) Mike Pence: Christian, Conservative, Caucasian, and Republican... in that order.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:46 PM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:46 PM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Laurence Tribe has opinions on the fact that Pence was in the room where it happened.
@tribelaw:
Uh-oh. Not good news for VPOTUS. Not at all. His keeping the Trump lie under wraps was probably a federal crime, misprision of felony.
posted by chris24 at 7:51 PM on September 1, 2017 [36 favorites]
@tribelaw:
Uh-oh. Not good news for VPOTUS. Not at all. His keeping the Trump lie under wraps was probably a federal crime, misprision of felony.
posted by chris24 at 7:51 PM on September 1, 2017 [36 favorites]
In chat rooms, Unite the Right organizers planned to obscure their racism (Reveal, from the Center for Investigative Reporting):
The communications before and after the event show that:posted by Joseph Gurl at 8:01 PM on September 1, 2017 [26 favorites]
- When the rally devolved into tragedy, after a neo-Nazi attending the rally allegedly drove through a crowd of counterprotesters, killing 32-year-old Heather Heyer, Charlottesville 2.0 participants vacillated between understanding that their attempts to rebrand hate had failed and sharing memes mocking Heyer’s death and promulgating anti-Semitic conspiracy theories.
- Many participants were taught the lyrics to the Confederate anthem “Dixie.” The protest was based on a desire to preserve Southern history. However, it involved a considerable number of people with no connection to the South. They were celebrating the Confederacy not for its own history, but as a symbol of white supremacy.
- The organizers understood their presence in Charlottesville was largely unwanted and it was in their best interest to keep a low profile until the moment the rally began. Organizers suggested paying for goods at local retailers in cash and replacing the pro-President Donald Trump stickers on attendees’ cars with “Hillary” or “Coexist” stickers.
- They worked to distance themselves from the images of the Nazis and Ku Klux Klan, if not actual Klan members. Users noted that Klan members were welcome, but only if they didn’t show up in white hoods and robes. “If you have comms (with the KKK) advise them that they will be turned away at the door,” one user wrote. “Just tell them not to show up in full regalia.”
- Antifa, the loosely organized left-wing group that frequently clashes with demonstrators at far-right events, was a consistent obsession for people in the Charlottesville 2.0 forum. The word “antifa” was mentioned 702 times, a greater frequency than terms like “rally” (531 times) or “park” (369 times).
- This desire to provoke counterprotesters into throwing the first punch was a theme throughout the chats – and has continued since then as well. In a post about a June event in Charlottesville, lead Unite the Right organizer Jason Kessler urged people to “help bait antifa into attacking the Proud Boys,” a group that’s been called the “alt-right Fight Club.”
Indeed, as Joshua Block of the ACLU explains, Pence went on TV to explain that Trump fired Comey based on Rosenstein's recommendation. We already knew that was false, because Trump contradicted it with Lester Holt, but we now know it was knowingly false, because Pence was in the meeting and had a copy of Trump's original memo.
posted by zachlipton at 8:02 PM on September 1, 2017 [82 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 8:02 PM on September 1, 2017 [82 favorites]
But Mr. Trump does not have a web browser on his phone, and does not use a laptop,
Is that even possible? I mean, I know it is technically possible to remove web browsers completely from your phone, but could Trump do it? Would one of his staff actually do it? Did the Secret Service do it to secure the phone?
I totally believe Trump does not use a laptop.He tried for a week, until the sharpie covered the whole screen.
Take every blonde joke you have ever heard, replace with Trump. I think they work.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 8:14 PM on September 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
Is that even possible? I mean, I know it is technically possible to remove web browsers completely from your phone, but could Trump do it? Would one of his staff actually do it? Did the Secret Service do it to secure the phone?
I totally believe Trump does not use a laptop.
Take every blonde joke you have ever heard, replace with Trump. I think they work.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 8:14 PM on September 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
Daily Beast, Lachlan and Swin, John Kelly Pushing Out Omarosa for ‘Triggering’ Trump
It's amazing how they aren't really replacing most of the people who leave, and yet there's always a new target for the leakers to hate on every couple of days.
posted by zachlipton at 8:20 PM on September 1, 2017 [20 favorites]
Newly minted White House chief of staff John Kelly has sought to put a dent in the influence of one of President Donald Trump’s most famous advisers: Omarosa Manigault.So that's what she's been doing... Just how many people have the primary job duties of printing out articles and showing them to Trump? She also had a list of people to be fired, including Priebus.
The former Apprentice co-star—who currently serves as the communications director for the Office of Public Liaison—has seen her direct access to the president limited since Kelly took the top White House job in late July, sources tell The Daily Beast. In particular, Kelly has taken steps to prevent her and other senior staffers from getting unvetted news articles on the president’s Resolute desk—a key method for influencing the president’s thinking, and one that Manigualt used to rile up Trump about internal White House drama.
...
The stories Manigault would present to Trump, often on a phone or printed out, would often enrage the president, and resulted in him spending at least the rest of the day fuming about it. For example, one White House source noted that Manigault was one of the people who would bring to President Trump’s attention online articles concerning MSNBC hosts, and former Trump pals, Joe Scarborough and Mika Brzezinski “slagging him, and his administration.”
This contributed, at least in small part, to the president’s mounting rage against the MSNBC couple, which exploded in late June when Trump attacked them and tweeted that, among other things, Brzezinski “was bleeding badly from a face-lift.”
Manigault earned a reputation within the White House for this kind of stuff, and, to many of her colleagues, it quickly overshadowed her comms duties and pro-Trump outreach to African-American audiences.
It's amazing how they aren't really replacing most of the people who leave, and yet there's always a new target for the leakers to hate on every couple of days.
posted by zachlipton at 8:20 PM on September 1, 2017 [20 favorites]
His keeping the Trump lie under wraps was probably a federal crime, misprision of felony.
What action has Pence taken to cover up the obstruction of justice?
posted by Coventry at 8:22 PM on September 1, 2017
What action has Pence taken to cover up the obstruction of justice?
posted by Coventry at 8:22 PM on September 1, 2017
Priebus plastered himself a chrysalis of secretions and shredded Wall Street Journals and is currently budding off miniature cloned Priebi.
Yeah, pretty sure you could just shorten that to "Priebus plastered."
posted by kirkaracha at 8:25 PM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
What action has Pence taken to cover up the obstruction of justice?
Never mind, just saw zachlipton's post.
posted by Coventry at 8:26 PM on September 1, 2017
Never mind, just saw zachlipton's post.
posted by Coventry at 8:26 PM on September 1, 2017
To be totally clear, I am not dissing on females with blonde hair at all. Take all those misogynistic jokes from decades ago about their stupidity, replace blonde with Trump and they sadly seem to work. I'll lay odds that there are a lot of other jokes that demean people that actually make more sense applied to Trump versus whatever category of person.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 8:27 PM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 8:27 PM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
Pence was a witness to this initial memo; to whatever degree it is damning, it's something he can't fully distance himself from
Very much time to start talking about "Vulture Pence, waiting to swoop in and take over when the president abdicates." Make sure the investigation - and the president - are focusing some attention on him.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 8:28 PM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Very much time to start talking about "Vulture Pence, waiting to swoop in and take over when the president abdicates." Make sure the investigation - and the president - are focusing some attention on him.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 8:28 PM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
chris24: @tribelaw:
Uh-oh. Not good news for VPOTUS. Not at all. His keeping the Trump lie under wraps was probably a federal crime, misprision of felony.
Sorry, I'm trying to catch up but I got lost. I can't tell what this is a reference to. Is it something that was linked here?
Holy shit, which little weather station is that, Room 641-A? I just got back from a lunch break walk around the Promenade, and it's about 90 here.
yasaman, I'm near the promenade, which is the Sunset Park station. But it was obviously malfunctioning, just good timing to infer that Miller is Satan. The actually scary part was that I went into the ocean and it was...warm.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:29 PM on September 1, 2017
Uh-oh. Not good news for VPOTUS. Not at all. His keeping the Trump lie under wraps was probably a federal crime, misprision of felony.
Sorry, I'm trying to catch up but I got lost. I can't tell what this is a reference to. Is it something that was linked here?
Holy shit, which little weather station is that, Room 641-A? I just got back from a lunch break walk around the Promenade, and it's about 90 here.
yasaman, I'm near the promenade, which is the Sunset Park station. But it was obviously malfunctioning, just good timing to infer that Miller is Satan. The actually scary part was that I went into the ocean and it was...warm.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:29 PM on September 1, 2017
Room 641-A,
posted by Coventry at 8:40 PM on September 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
copies of the [Comey] letter were handed out in the Oval Office to senior officials, including Mr. McGahn and Vice President Mike Pence. Mr. Trump announced that he had decided to fire Mr. Comey, and read aloud from Mr. Miller’s memo.Meaning that Pence was aware of and subsequently concealed Trump's obstruction of justice.
posted by Coventry at 8:40 PM on September 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
o that's what she's been doing... Just how many people have the primary job duties of printing out articles and showing them to Trump? She also had a list of people to be fired, including Priebus.
If you watched any of the first season of THE APPRENTICE (which I did, for my sins) then it makes total sense for Omarosa to basically be Littlefinger.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:45 PM on September 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
If you watched any of the first season of THE APPRENTICE (which I did, for my sins) then it makes total sense for Omarosa to basically be Littlefinger.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:45 PM on September 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
Tim "I'm from Youngstown, OH and white so I can win back the white working class and should be Leader instead of Pelosi" Ryan: "Actually tax cuts for billionaires and multinational corporations will bring back coal jobs for white people"
[fake quote, real elected Democrat].
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:48 PM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
[fake quote, real elected Democrat].
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:48 PM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
So wait, wait...is this the sequence?
1. Trump pressures Comey to drop the Russia probe (per Comey's testimony and notes). This, we believe, is an attempt to Obstruct Justice.
2. Trump then discusses firing Comey with Javanka and Miller. We believe he was explicit in wanting to do so to quash the Russia probe.
3. Trump tells Miller to write a letter firing Comey. Miller does so. (Miller thus becomes an accessory to Obstruction of Justice.)
4. Trump then announces/distributes the Miller version of the letter to "senior officials" including McGahn and Pence.
5. McGahn says the letter is problematic for some reason. We believe it was problematic legally, because it was explicit in tying Trump's desire to fire Comey to the Russia probe, which would be physical evidence of Conspiracy to Obstruct Justice.
6. Trump(?) then asks Rosenstein to draft a new letter. Rosenstein does so.
7. Trump then has his bodyguard / security chief Schiller deliver the Rosenstein letter to Comey's empty office.
8. Trump announces Comey's termination and news breaks of it while Comey is in a meeting with FBI officials in Los Angeles, to his surprise.
9. Later, Trump uses this as the fig leaf for saying that the idea to fire Comey was Rosenstein's. This is repeated by various White House officials, including Mike Pence (at which point Pence is now presumably guilty of Misprision of a Felony).
10. Trump, unable to keep his fat gob shut, completely undermines the story by confessing in a televised interview with Lester Holt that he wanted to fire Comey over the Russia probe.
11. Mueller is appointed Special Counsel by Rosenstein. Mueller gets a copy of the original Miller draft of the Comey letter that McGahn felt was problematic. If the letter has the explicit connection between the firing and the Russia probe, it is concrete physical evidence of Obstruction of Justice by Trump, Conspiracy by at least Miller, and Misprision of a Felony by Pence.
And this leaves out the whole other can(s) of worms related to the original crime(s) in the Russia probe - it only focuses on one series of attempted cover-ups of those possible crimes by firing Comey.
Do I have that right? Anything missing?
posted by darkstar at 8:51 PM on September 1, 2017 [94 favorites]
1. Trump pressures Comey to drop the Russia probe (per Comey's testimony and notes). This, we believe, is an attempt to Obstruct Justice.
2. Trump then discusses firing Comey with Javanka and Miller. We believe he was explicit in wanting to do so to quash the Russia probe.
3. Trump tells Miller to write a letter firing Comey. Miller does so. (Miller thus becomes an accessory to Obstruction of Justice.)
4. Trump then announces/distributes the Miller version of the letter to "senior officials" including McGahn and Pence.
5. McGahn says the letter is problematic for some reason. We believe it was problematic legally, because it was explicit in tying Trump's desire to fire Comey to the Russia probe, which would be physical evidence of Conspiracy to Obstruct Justice.
6. Trump(?) then asks Rosenstein to draft a new letter. Rosenstein does so.
7. Trump then has his bodyguard / security chief Schiller deliver the Rosenstein letter to Comey's empty office.
8. Trump announces Comey's termination and news breaks of it while Comey is in a meeting with FBI officials in Los Angeles, to his surprise.
9. Later, Trump uses this as the fig leaf for saying that the idea to fire Comey was Rosenstein's. This is repeated by various White House officials, including Mike Pence (at which point Pence is now presumably guilty of Misprision of a Felony).
10. Trump, unable to keep his fat gob shut, completely undermines the story by confessing in a televised interview with Lester Holt that he wanted to fire Comey over the Russia probe.
11. Mueller is appointed Special Counsel by Rosenstein. Mueller gets a copy of the original Miller draft of the Comey letter that McGahn felt was problematic. If the letter has the explicit connection between the firing and the Russia probe, it is concrete physical evidence of Obstruction of Justice by Trump, Conspiracy by at least Miller, and Misprision of a Felony by Pence.
And this leaves out the whole other can(s) of worms related to the original crime(s) in the Russia probe - it only focuses on one series of attempted cover-ups of those possible crimes by firing Comey.
Do I have that right? Anything missing?
posted by darkstar at 8:51 PM on September 1, 2017 [94 favorites]
For example, one White House source noted that Manigault was one of the people who would bring to President Trump’s attention online articles concerning MSNBC hosts, and former Trump pals, Joe Scarborough and Mika Brzezinski “slagging him, and his administration.”
This contributed, at least in small part, to the president’s mounting rage against the MSNBC couple, which exploded in late June when Trump attacked them and tweeted that, among other things, Brzezinski “was bleeding badly from a face-lift.”
I believe this absolutely and without question, but the idea that you would become aware of this information and decide that of the two of them, her and Trump, SHE'S the one who needs to be removed from a place of power in the White House, just beggars belief. and is part of why John Kelly deserves every second of humiliation he endures from now until his firing and then in eternity, for the rest of time.
all this pious garbage about how he took the job against his own better judgment and interests because duty calls &cetera &cetera, and what is he doing with all his power and access to get Trump impeached or involuntarily committed? well, maybe lots and maybe it'll all come out later and I'll have to respect a General for once in my life. but I bet nothing. for which, fuck him.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:53 PM on September 1, 2017 [14 favorites]
This contributed, at least in small part, to the president’s mounting rage against the MSNBC couple, which exploded in late June when Trump attacked them and tweeted that, among other things, Brzezinski “was bleeding badly from a face-lift.”
I believe this absolutely and without question, but the idea that you would become aware of this information and decide that of the two of them, her and Trump, SHE'S the one who needs to be removed from a place of power in the White House, just beggars belief. and is part of why John Kelly deserves every second of humiliation he endures from now until his firing and then in eternity, for the rest of time.
all this pious garbage about how he took the job against his own better judgment and interests because duty calls &cetera &cetera, and what is he doing with all his power and access to get Trump impeached or involuntarily committed? well, maybe lots and maybe it'll all come out later and I'll have to respect a General for once in my life. but I bet nothing. for which, fuck him.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:53 PM on September 1, 2017 [14 favorites]
I truly thought that Pence could slither away, Bush, Sr. style, and never truly find himself in legal jeopardy. I'm feeling less certain of that now.
posted by xyzzy at 9:00 PM on September 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 9:00 PM on September 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
Do I have that right? Anything missing?
Organized Crime conspiring to throw elections. This Obstruction and Misprison stuff is tiddly-winks... I mean, it's all no-kidding bombshells and hellfire, but it's actually tiddly-winks compared to what Mueller is after.
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:06 PM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Organized Crime conspiring to throw elections. This Obstruction and Misprison stuff is tiddly-winks... I mean, it's all no-kidding bombshells and hellfire, but it's actually tiddly-winks compared to what Mueller is after.
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:06 PM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Obstruction carries a 20-yr penalty, Mueller will be looking to roll Manafort, Kushner, Pence, and hell, after today, McGhan and Rosenstein, up the chain to Trump himself, just like a mob prosecution. Because that's exactly what this is. Obstruction is the way in, it's not the end goal.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:11 PM on September 1, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:11 PM on September 1, 2017 [23 favorites]
Thanks for the Pence info, I missed that part of the story.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:12 PM on September 1, 2017
posted by Room 641-A at 9:12 PM on September 1, 2017
The question though, and I say this not to defend Trump (shudder) but to understand the argument, is whether there's actually obstruction of justice in there.
Trump's lawyers can argue that he fired Comey because Comey would tell him privately that he wasn't under investigation but wouldn't tell anyone else. And that Comey was perfectly fine telling the world the status of the Clinton investigation. That's all very inappropriate and wrong, but it's a narrative under which Trump's intent wasn't necessarily obstruction. The detail in the Times article about McGahn telling Trump that firing Comey could actually prolong the investigation would be an important one for this argument; if Trump made the decision knowing there would be even more investigation, how can you argue he fired Comey to obstruct the investigation? And if that's all the case, then lying about firing Comey is just normal non-criminal lying (though it can still be impeachable of course) rather than conspiracy to obstruct justice lying.
I mean, don't get me wrong, this is all awful stuff for the President to be doing, this isn't even getting into everything else, stuff in here is worthy of impeachment whether or not it constitutes obstruction, and I can just as easily make the opposite argument. My point is that there really ought to be something more to seal the deal here. The wildcard is the letter Trump dictated to Miller. If that document explains Comey's firing in a way that precludes the above argument, game over.
And thank you for making my next point T.D. Strange: an obstruction investigation is still a way to shake all the branches until the big coconuts fall out. Just make sure you get out of the way before they hit you on the head.
posted by zachlipton at 9:14 PM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
Trump's lawyers can argue that he fired Comey because Comey would tell him privately that he wasn't under investigation but wouldn't tell anyone else. And that Comey was perfectly fine telling the world the status of the Clinton investigation. That's all very inappropriate and wrong, but it's a narrative under which Trump's intent wasn't necessarily obstruction. The detail in the Times article about McGahn telling Trump that firing Comey could actually prolong the investigation would be an important one for this argument; if Trump made the decision knowing there would be even more investigation, how can you argue he fired Comey to obstruct the investigation? And if that's all the case, then lying about firing Comey is just normal non-criminal lying (though it can still be impeachable of course) rather than conspiracy to obstruct justice lying.
I mean, don't get me wrong, this is all awful stuff for the President to be doing, this isn't even getting into everything else, stuff in here is worthy of impeachment whether or not it constitutes obstruction, and I can just as easily make the opposite argument. My point is that there really ought to be something more to seal the deal here. The wildcard is the letter Trump dictated to Miller. If that document explains Comey's firing in a way that precludes the above argument, game over.
And thank you for making my next point T.D. Strange: an obstruction investigation is still a way to shake all the branches until the big coconuts fall out. Just make sure you get out of the way before they hit you on the head.
posted by zachlipton at 9:14 PM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
Do I have that right? Anything missing?
The subsequent meeting with the Russians, in which Trump admitted that thanks to firing "that nut job" Comey, the pressure's off.
posted by SPrintF at 9:15 PM on September 1, 2017 [41 favorites]
The subsequent meeting with the Russians, in which Trump admitted that thanks to firing "that nut job" Comey, the pressure's off.
posted by SPrintF at 9:15 PM on September 1, 2017 [41 favorites]
trump made sure he got Pence dirty early on to shore up his loyalty.
I'm convinced putting Pence in charge of the transition was getting him to make his bones. Pretty hard to transition a criminal undertaking into a political administration without getting in the middle of it.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:15 PM on September 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
I'm convinced putting Pence in charge of the transition was getting him to make his bones. Pretty hard to transition a criminal undertaking into a political administration without getting in the middle of it.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:15 PM on September 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
Rep John Conyers and Sen Bernie Sanders did a town hall together in Conyers district about a week ago. The whole thing was good but Rev. Wendell Anthony's introduction of Sanders was something special (youtube video cued to start at 39min just after Conyers finishes speaking, takes a couple minutes to ramp up and is about 9 minutes long).
posted by phoque at 9:20 PM on September 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by phoque at 9:20 PM on September 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
Watch as Trump Calls On A Bunch of Religious Leaders to Thank Him For His Harvey Efforts (Medaite)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 9:47 PM on September 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Joseph Gurl at 9:47 PM on September 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
I have zero doubt that Pence is in this up to his smarmy weasel eyeballs. I just hope they have the evidence to prove it.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 10:00 PM on September 1, 2017 [39 favorites]
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 10:00 PM on September 1, 2017 [39 favorites]
Trump's lawyers can argue that he fired Comey because Comey would tell him privately that he wasn't under investigation but wouldn't tell anyone else. And that Comey was perfectly fine telling the world the status of the Clinton investigation.
Didn't Comey present that information to Chaffetz et al, under the pretense that he was supposed to update Congress on developments in the investigation, and then it leaked from Congress' end? This is not to say I buy that, it's still the Comey Ratfucking and I don't buy that he was naïve about what would happen, but Comey can still claim to have done it all by the book, "no comment on ongoing investigations," etc.
posted by jason_steakums at 10:22 PM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
Didn't Comey present that information to Chaffetz et al, under the pretense that he was supposed to update Congress on developments in the investigation, and then it leaked from Congress' end? This is not to say I buy that, it's still the Comey Ratfucking and I don't buy that he was naïve about what would happen, but Comey can still claim to have done it all by the book, "no comment on ongoing investigations," etc.
posted by jason_steakums at 10:22 PM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
Watch as Trump Calls On A Bunch of Religious Leaders to Thank Him For His Harvey Efforts (Medaite)
Goddamn, what a cringe-inducing shitshow. This tiny little manchild, with all his deep, deep insecurities and long history of abuse — it's all on full display. I suppose he thinks this was some kind of alpha-male show of strength, but to anyone with half a brain cell to spare, this is the plaintive cry of a defeated, beaten child with no self-worth, screaming for validation any way he can find it.
Had he not stumbled his way into the presidency, I'd feel really, really sorry for this sick, empty, defeated soul. But because he is where he is . . . fuck this asshole, and [CENSORED BECAUSE THE REST OF MY THOUGHTS ABOUT HIM ARE NOT METAFILTER-FRIENDLY, AND NOT ONLY THAT, BUT I'D RATHER STAY OFF THE NO-FLY LIST AND NSA WATCH LISTS, IF YOU DON'T MIND. BUT THE WORD "LYNCH" IS IN THERE SOMEWHERE.]
posted by CommonSense at 10:47 PM on September 1, 2017 [11 favorites]
Goddamn, what a cringe-inducing shitshow. This tiny little manchild, with all his deep, deep insecurities and long history of abuse — it's all on full display. I suppose he thinks this was some kind of alpha-male show of strength, but to anyone with half a brain cell to spare, this is the plaintive cry of a defeated, beaten child with no self-worth, screaming for validation any way he can find it.
Had he not stumbled his way into the presidency, I'd feel really, really sorry for this sick, empty, defeated soul. But because he is where he is . . . fuck this asshole, and [CENSORED BECAUSE THE REST OF MY THOUGHTS ABOUT HIM ARE NOT METAFILTER-FRIENDLY, AND NOT ONLY THAT, BUT I'D RATHER STAY OFF THE NO-FLY LIST AND NSA WATCH LISTS, IF YOU DON'T MIND. BUT THE WORD "LYNCH" IS IN THERE SOMEWHERE.]
posted by CommonSense at 10:47 PM on September 1, 2017 [11 favorites]
CommonSense: BUT THE WORD "LYNCH" IS IN THERE SOMEWHERE.
I don't think we can blame the Trump presidency entirely on Loretta Lynch.
posted by Superplin at 11:00 PM on September 1, 2017 [11 favorites]
I don't think we can blame the Trump presidency entirely on Loretta Lynch.
posted by Superplin at 11:00 PM on September 1, 2017 [11 favorites]
Just trying to keep all of this Byzantine intrigue straight, this week's winner of the purge lotteries:
1. William Bradford, Director of Office of Indian Energy (Dept of Energy), resigned on Thursday. Cause: uproar over his making statements about Obama's birth certificate and mother, which he later claimed were the result of someone hacking his online account.
2. David Clarke, Sheriff of Milwaukee County, Trump supporter, criminally negligent civil rights violating authoritarian, and Chief of Flair. Resigned Thursday, with no word about future plans. DHS has said explicitly it had not offered him a job earlier this year when Clarke had made that public claim.
Bets now being taken on the next possible purge candidates:
1. Omarosa Manigault, Trump's Director of Communications for the Office of Public Liaison and, ostensibly, chiefly responsible for African-American outreach. Reports on Friday (linked above) suggest she is being pushed out by Kelly for "triggering" Trump with inflammatory, alt-right news articles.
2. Kurt Schiller, Trump long-time bodyguard and now Director of Oval Office Operations. Unconfirmed reports surface on Friday that he may be resigning following revelation that Mueller has obtained the Miller draft of the Comey firing letter, which Schilling may have received at an early stage in the Comey termination deliberations.
3. Stephen Miller, the "C+ Santa Monica Fascist" who is now Trump's Senior Advisor for Policy. Reports that Mueller has a copy of the Miller draft of the Comey firing letter may place pressures on Miller to make a deal with the Feds.
4. Gary Cohn, Trump's Director of White House Economic Council, is reported to have written a resignation letter after Trump's response to the Charlottesville events, but then reconsidered.
posted by darkstar at 11:11 PM on September 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
1. William Bradford, Director of Office of Indian Energy (Dept of Energy), resigned on Thursday. Cause: uproar over his making statements about Obama's birth certificate and mother, which he later claimed were the result of someone hacking his online account.
2. David Clarke, Sheriff of Milwaukee County, Trump supporter, criminally negligent civil rights violating authoritarian, and Chief of Flair. Resigned Thursday, with no word about future plans. DHS has said explicitly it had not offered him a job earlier this year when Clarke had made that public claim.
Bets now being taken on the next possible purge candidates:
1. Omarosa Manigault, Trump's Director of Communications for the Office of Public Liaison and, ostensibly, chiefly responsible for African-American outreach. Reports on Friday (linked above) suggest she is being pushed out by Kelly for "triggering" Trump with inflammatory, alt-right news articles.
2. Kurt Schiller, Trump long-time bodyguard and now Director of Oval Office Operations. Unconfirmed reports surface on Friday that he may be resigning following revelation that Mueller has obtained the Miller draft of the Comey firing letter, which Schilling may have received at an early stage in the Comey termination deliberations.
3. Stephen Miller, the "C+ Santa Monica Fascist" who is now Trump's Senior Advisor for Policy. Reports that Mueller has a copy of the Miller draft of the Comey firing letter may place pressures on Miller to make a deal with the Feds.
4. Gary Cohn, Trump's Director of White House Economic Council, is reported to have written a resignation letter after Trump's response to the Charlottesville events, but then reconsidered.
posted by darkstar at 11:11 PM on September 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
zachlipton: "And here are Consulate staffers making sure to take their laundry detergent with them."
If I was trying to sneak a bunch of gold and platinum dissolved in Aqua Regia home with me when I was expelled from a country a big jug of "laundry detergent" would be an excellent, unassuming container.
a non mouse, a cow herd: "I mean, I know it is technically possible to remove web browsers completely from your phone, but could Trump do it? "
These people aren't IT sophisticates; removing the browser icon is easy and probably equivalent in their minds.
posted by Mitheral at 11:15 PM on September 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
If I was trying to sneak a bunch of gold and platinum dissolved in Aqua Regia home with me when I was expelled from a country a big jug of "laundry detergent" would be an excellent, unassuming container.
a non mouse, a cow herd: "I mean, I know it is technically possible to remove web browsers completely from your phone, but could Trump do it? "
These people aren't IT sophisticates; removing the browser icon is easy and probably equivalent in their minds.
posted by Mitheral at 11:15 PM on September 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
If this keeps up Trump's gonna be all out of Stevens.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:16 PM on September 1, 2017 [109 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 11:16 PM on September 1, 2017 [109 favorites]
ಠ_ಠ
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:17 PM on September 1, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:17 PM on September 1, 2017 [19 favorites]
Obstruction carries a 20-yr penalty, Mueller will be looking to roll Manafort, Kushner, Pence, and hell, after today, McGhan and Rosenstein, up the chain to Trump himself, just like a mob prosecution. Because that's exactly what this is. Obstruction is the way in, it's not the end goal.
Alternative Rosenstein theory: Given the prior investigation, Rosenstein is part of a sting operation.
posted by mikelieman at 11:42 PM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
Alternative Rosenstein theory: Given the prior investigation, Rosenstein is part of a sting operation.
posted by mikelieman at 11:42 PM on September 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
Investigation opened on Mnuchin Moon trip:
Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin’s flight to Kentucky last week is under review by the department’s Office of Inspector General after the trip raised public scrutiny over whether it was partly motivated by interest in viewing the solar eclipse.posted by darkstar at 12:45 AM on September 2, 2017 [14 favorites]
So, in case folks are confused about Trump's new tax "plan", you're not alone.
Trump Economic Advisor Gary Cohn says in Friday interview that there won't be a cut in top tax rates under Trump's new tax plan. And immediately flips to say there will be. And then he's not sure. All in the span of about a minute.
posted by darkstar at 12:58 AM on September 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
Trump Economic Advisor Gary Cohn says in Friday interview that there won't be a cut in top tax rates under Trump's new tax plan. And immediately flips to say there will be. And then he's not sure. All in the span of about a minute.
posted by darkstar at 12:58 AM on September 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
Mnuchin Moon trip
Had my hopes up there for a minute.
posted by xigxag at 1:47 AM on September 2, 2017 [43 favorites]
Had my hopes up there for a minute.
posted by xigxag at 1:47 AM on September 2, 2017 [43 favorites]
Quebec offers blankets, beds and hydro crews to Texas in wake of Hurricane Harvey
Texas Secretary of State says no need for now, asks for prayers instead (CBC)
Texas Secretary of State says no need for now, asks for prayers instead (CBC)
Above all, St-Pierre said she called to voice Quebec's concern for Texans caught up in the disaster.posted by Room 641-A at 2:55 AM on September 2, 2017 [31 favorites]
"It was a conversation about how devastating the situation is and we want to express our support to the people of Texas," she told CBC News.
Pablos declined the aid for now, instead asking for "prayers from the people of Quebec," the minister said. "He was very touched by the fact we called him."
darkstar: Do I have that right? Anything missing?
Regarding #5/#6 in your timeline:
According to a NYT article linked by zachlipton above, Rosenstein was given a copy of the original draft Trump/Miller memo before he (Rosenstein) wrote the final memo that was made public:
Regarding #5/#6 in your timeline:
According to a NYT article linked by zachlipton above, Rosenstein was given a copy of the original draft Trump/Miller memo before he (Rosenstein) wrote the final memo that was made public:
During the May 8 Oval Office meeting with Mr. Trump, Mr. Rosenstein was given a copy of the original letter and agreed to to write a separate memo for Mr. Trump about why Mr. Comey should be fired.posted by syzygy at 3:08 AM on September 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
Didn't I also read that Sessions was in the room for the original letter, proving that his recusal was a sham?
posted by C'est la D.C. at 3:37 AM on September 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by C'est la D.C. at 3:37 AM on September 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
The reason they are still racist after seeing Racism Is Bad messages literally everywhere for 40+ years is that it benefits them to be so and it doesn't matter how much other people love them if they don't love us as much as they love themselves.
I actually think it's more that when we don't love ourself, we often dissociate those feelings by projecting them onto the other. You can't change how another person feels about themself though, it's a journey everyone ultimately has to make for themselves. All you can do is signpost the way to the limit of your tolerance.
posted by walrus at 3:38 AM on September 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
I actually think it's more that when we don't love ourself, we often dissociate those feelings by projecting them onto the other. You can't change how another person feels about themself though, it's a journey everyone ultimately has to make for themselves. All you can do is signpost the way to the limit of your tolerance.
posted by walrus at 3:38 AM on September 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
Newly minted White House chief of staff John Kelly has sought to put a dent in the influence of one of President Donald Trump’s most famous advisers
Someone recently said to me that Kelly isn't doing what's best for Trump; he's trying to serve the office of the presidency by building up structure and process and removing the elements that cause chaos and confusion. That makes sense to me. And seemingly puts Kelly on a direct collision course with a personality that thrives on those elements.
posted by MonkeyToes at 3:57 AM on September 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
Someone recently said to me that Kelly isn't doing what's best for Trump; he's trying to serve the office of the presidency by building up structure and process and removing the elements that cause chaos and confusion. That makes sense to me. And seemingly puts Kelly on a direct collision course with a personality that thrives on those elements.
posted by MonkeyToes at 3:57 AM on September 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
So John Kelly is Varys?
posted by guiseroom at 4:06 AM on September 2, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by guiseroom at 4:06 AM on September 2, 2017 [14 favorites]
also strengthen that case significantly
Fascinating and blatantly illegal as all this may be, isn't it necessarily academic since impeachment isn't dependent on criminal law, but rather political will?
Hoping Mueller goes all Katamari Damacy on their asses, obvs., just sayin'.
posted by petebest at 4:58 AM on September 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
Fascinating and blatantly illegal as all this may be, isn't it necessarily academic since impeachment isn't dependent on criminal law, but rather political will?
Hoping Mueller goes all Katamari Damacy on their asses, obvs., just sayin'.
posted by petebest at 4:58 AM on September 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
Filmmakers forced to create ‘bullsh*t’ roles for Trump in movies if they want to film in his NYC tower: Matt Damon (Raw Story)
Serious question: does he have any redeeming qualities? Like, any at all?
posted by Room 641-A at 6:36 AM on September 2, 2017 [33 favorites]
In an interview with the Hollywood Reporter, actor and producer Matt Damon explained that one of the conditions for filming in Trump Tower was a requirement that filmmakers create a role for Donald Trump — which he called a waste of time that usually ended up on the cutting room floor. [...]A perfect example of the Trumo paradox. He makes outrageous, grandiose demands of the filmmakers, but then either doesn't notice or care that he almost always gets cut. He's taxing people and resources for a fleeting moment of whatever the fuck he needs.
“The deal was that if you wanted to shoot in one of his buildings, you had to write him in a part,” Damon explained. “[Director] Martin Brest had to write something in Scent of a Woman — and the whole crew was in on it. You have to waste an hour of your day with a bullshit shot: Donald Trump walks in and Al Pacino’s like, ‘Hello, Mr. Trump! — you had to call him by name — and then he exits.”
“You waste a little time so that you can get the permit, and then you can cut the scene out. But I guess in Home Alone 2 they left it in,” he added. (emphasis mine)
Serious question: does he have any redeeming qualities? Like, any at all?
posted by Room 641-A at 6:36 AM on September 2, 2017 [33 favorites]
Trump's lawyers can argue that he fired Comey because Comey would tell him privately that he wasn't under investigation but wouldn't tell anyone else.
In Comey's testimony, he said that he had debates with his internal team leading the investigation and the other FBI leadership he involved where they argued against him telling Trump that he was not under investigation. And Comey testified he decided to answer Trump but did say that he was not currently under investigation. And if I'm remembering correctly, told Trump that the reason he wouldn't say publicly he wasn't under investigation was because of the possibility that could change. So I think Comey was careful in how framed it, and there will be I'm sure contemporaneous notes of his internal FBI discussions as well as his conversations with Trump.
posted by chris24 at 6:36 AM on September 2, 2017 [9 favorites]
In Comey's testimony, he said that he had debates with his internal team leading the investigation and the other FBI leadership he involved where they argued against him telling Trump that he was not under investigation. And Comey testified he decided to answer Trump but did say that he was not currently under investigation. And if I'm remembering correctly, told Trump that the reason he wouldn't say publicly he wasn't under investigation was because of the possibility that could change. So I think Comey was careful in how framed it, and there will be I'm sure contemporaneous notes of his internal FBI discussions as well as his conversations with Trump.
posted by chris24 at 6:36 AM on September 2, 2017 [9 favorites]
TRUMP LOVES PEOPLE.
It's a cookbook!
Even worse: it's a songbook.
It's a cookbook!
Even worse: it's a songbook.
Trump, Trump loves peopleposted by wenestvedt at 6:38 AM on September 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
Avoids ‘em wherever he goes.
Trump, Trump loves people
There's no kind of folks he know.
If those people were far people
All people go away
There’d be a lot less people to worry about
And he'd not have to care.
People from the south-land and people from the north
Like a mite-size army I saw them coming forth.
‘Twas a great reunion befitting of a king!
Then I realized people had more important things.
Trump, Trump loves people... etc.
(Won't you consider being a host family when "Trump Loves People" comes to your town? You'll get two complimentary tickets to the Friday night show. Just provide transportation to the cast member every morning and night as they attend fake rallies, flee lopsided protests, and abandon MAGA gear merch tables outside Evangelical churches in the area.)
posted by wenestvedt at 6:40 AM on September 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by wenestvedt at 6:40 AM on September 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
Russian Election Hacking Efforts, Wider Than Previously Known, Draw Little Scrutiny (SLNYT)
posted by schadenfrau at 6:48 AM on September 2, 2017 [42 favorites]
After a presidential campaign scarred by Russian meddling, local, state and federal agencies have conducted little of the type of digital forensic investigation required to assess the impact, if any, on voting in at least 21 states whose election systems were targeted by Russian hackers, according to interviews with nearly two dozen national security and state officials and election technology specialists.I'm not even done reading it, tbh; taking a pillow-screaming break at this graph
The assaults on the vast back-end election apparatus — voter-registration operations, state and local election databases, e-poll books and other equipment — have received far less attention than other aspects of the Russian interference, such as the hacking of Democratic emails and spreading of false or damaging information about Mrs. Clinton. Yet the hacking of electoral systems was more extensive than previously disclosed, The New York Times found.
...
Intelligence officials in January reassured Americans that there was no indication that Russian hackers had altered the vote count on Election Day, the bottom-line outcome. But the assurances stopped there.
Government officials said that they intentionally did not address the security of the back-end election systems, whose disruption could prevent voters from even casting ballots.
...
In interviews, academic and private election security experts acknowledged the challenges of such diagnostics but argued that the effort is necessary. They warned about what could come, perhaps as soon as next year’s midterm elections, if the existing mix of outdated voting equipment, haphazard election-verification procedures and array of outside vendors is not improved to build an effective defense against Russian or other hackers.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:48 AM on September 2, 2017 [42 favorites]
Serious question: does he have any redeeming qualities? Like, any at all?
When you realize he almost always looks like he's mid-poop, especially when sitting down, that's sort of funny.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 6:52 AM on September 2, 2017 [13 favorites]
When you realize he almost always looks like he's mid-poop, especially when sitting down, that's sort of funny.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 6:52 AM on September 2, 2017 [13 favorites]
The Times has a op-ed out today - Waiting for a Perfect Protest? - by 4 pastors that's in a similar vein to the long tweet thread I posted earlier about Sit-Ins vs Antifa.
Our complaint here is not about the right-wing media outlets that we know will continue to delegitimize anti-racist protest in any form — whether it’s peacefully sitting during the national anthem, marching in the streets, staging boycotts or simply making the apparently radical claim that “black lives matter.” Rather, our concern at this moment is with our moderate brothers and sisters who voice support for the cause of racial justice but simultaneously cling to paralyzingly unrealistic standards when it comes to what protest should look like.posted by chris24 at 6:54 AM on September 2, 2017 [118 favorites]
As Christian clergy members, we place a high value on nonviolence. We are part of a national campaign that promotes proven solutions to reducing gun violence in our cities, and each of us has worked to achieve peace in our neighborhoods. But we know there has never been a time in American history in which movements for justice have been devoid of violent outbreaks.
Thanks to the sanitized images of the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and the civil rights movement that dominate our nation’s classrooms and our national discourse, many Americans imagine that protests organized by the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee and countless local organizations fighting for justice did not fall victim to violent outbreaks. That’s a myth. In spite of extensive training in nonviolent protest and civil disobedience, individuals and factions within the larger movement engaged in violent skirmishes, and many insisted on their right to physically defend themselves even while they proclaimed nonviolence as an ideal (examples include leaders of the SNCC and the Deacons for Defense and Justice in Mississippi).
The reality — which is underdiscussed but essential to an understanding of our current situation — is that the civil rights work of Dr. King and other leaders was loudly opposed by overt racists and quietly sabotaged by cautious moderates. We believe that current moderates sincerely want to condemn racism and to see an end to its effects. The problem is that this desire is outweighed by the comfort of their current circumstances and a perception of themselves as above some of the messy implications of fighting for liberation. This is nothing new. In fact, Dr. King’s 1963 “Letter From Birmingham Jail” is as relevant today as it was then. He wrote in part:I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizens Councilor or the Ku Klux Klanner but the white moderate who is more devoted to order than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says, “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can’t agree with your methods of direct action.”National polling from the 1960s shows that even during that celebrated “golden age” of nonviolent protest, most Americans were against marches and demonstrations. A 1961 Gallup poll revealed that 57 percent of the public thought that lunch counter sit-ins and other demonstrations would hurt integration efforts. A 1963 poll showed that 60 percent had an unfavorable feeling toward the planned March on Washington, where Dr. King gave his “I Have a Dream” speech. A year later, 74 percent said that since black people had made some progress, they should stop their demonstrations; and by 1969, 74 percent said that marching, picketing and demonstrations were hurting the civil rights cause. As for Dr. King personally, the figure who current moderates most readily point to as a model, 50 percent of people polled in 1966 thought that he was hurting the civil rights movement; only 36 percent believed he was helping.
The civil rights movement was messy, disorderly, confrontational and yes, sometimes violent. Those standing on the sidelines of the current racial-justice movement, waiting for a pristine or flawless exercise of righteous protest, will have a long wait. They, we suspect, will be this generation’s version of the millions who claim that they were one of the thousands who marched with Dr. King. Each of us should realize that what we do now is most likely what we would have done during those celebrated protests 50 years ago. Rather than critique from afar, come out of your homes, follow those who are closest to the pain, and help us to redeem this country, and yourselves, in the process.
Serious question: does he have any redeeming qualities? Like, any at all?
I mean, a whole lot of worms will be fed when he's dead.
posted by Rykey at 6:55 AM on September 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
I mean, a whole lot of worms will be fed when he's dead.
posted by Rykey at 6:55 AM on September 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
I don't think we can blame the Trump presidency entirely on Loretta Lynch.
More like David Lynch.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 6:59 AM on September 2, 2017 [12 favorites]
More like David Lynch.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 6:59 AM on September 2, 2017 [12 favorites]
> The problems involved electronic poll books — tablets and laptops, loaded with check-in software, that have increasingly replaced the thick binders of paper used to verify voters’ identities and registration status. She knew that the company that provided Durham’s software, VR Systems, had been penetrated by Russian hackers months before.
Until a few years ago the library system I work for did all of its program room scheduling at the individual branch level, on paper, in binders. It was simple, and it worked just fine. Then it was decided that this low-tech approach would be replaced by a centralized, online system with a billion seemingly arbitrary rules and byzantine deadlines. Now the room booking system is a time-sucking bane of everyone who is unfortunate enough to have to use it, and mistakes like double-bookings abound, but I guess a manager somewhere got a bonus for proposing it.
Anyway, this doesn't even approach "hill of beans" territory in the grand scheme of things, but I just wanted to vent about how sometimes mo' tech means mo' problems...probably intentionally in the case of U.S. voting systems. It's nice that the Democrats aren't raising much of a stink about it. Wouldn't want the Republicans to call them names like SORE LOSERMAN, I guess.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:02 AM on September 2, 2017 [13 favorites]
Until a few years ago the library system I work for did all of its program room scheduling at the individual branch level, on paper, in binders. It was simple, and it worked just fine. Then it was decided that this low-tech approach would be replaced by a centralized, online system with a billion seemingly arbitrary rules and byzantine deadlines. Now the room booking system is a time-sucking bane of everyone who is unfortunate enough to have to use it, and mistakes like double-bookings abound, but I guess a manager somewhere got a bonus for proposing it.
Anyway, this doesn't even approach "hill of beans" territory in the grand scheme of things, but I just wanted to vent about how sometimes mo' tech means mo' problems...probably intentionally in the case of U.S. voting systems. It's nice that the Democrats aren't raising much of a stink about it. Wouldn't want the Republicans to call them names like SORE LOSERMAN, I guess.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:02 AM on September 2, 2017 [13 favorites]
Katie Hopkin making case that Trump is an "authentic human". (Unconvincing)
posted by Artw at 7:14 AM on September 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:14 AM on September 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
Katie Hopkin making case that Trump is an "authentic human" - @KTHopkins: Trump pledges $1 million of personal funds to help with #Harvey. For the first time, there is a authentic human in the White House #MAGA
@Mobute Retweeted Katie Hopkins
jimmy carter starts to speak, realizes there's a nail in his teeth, takes it out and hammers it into affordable housing he's building at 92
posted by chris24 at 7:20 AM on September 2, 2017 [92 favorites]
@Mobute Retweeted Katie Hopkins
jimmy carter starts to speak, realizes there's a nail in his teeth, takes it out and hammers it into affordable housing he's building at 92
posted by chris24 at 7:20 AM on September 2, 2017 [92 favorites]
A perfect example of the Trumo paradox. He makes outrageous, grandiose demands of the filmmakers, but then either doesn't notice or care that he almost always gets cut. He's taxing people and resources for a fleeting moment of whatever the fuck he needs.
Serious question: does he have any redeeming qualities? Like, any at all?
posted by Room 641-A at 10:36 PM on September 2 [7 favorites +] [!]
That thing about how the entire country is asking the same question, except for racists, who are like, his redeeming quality is that he's a racist, but they're racists and dumb, and it's not the racism.
The redeeming quality is how did anyone get to be such an asshole you can't even process it. That's it.
And it's a real thing. Andrew Dice Clay is the benign form, I think? He still fills theaters, so there's something there.
We live in a world where that's enough to be president. BRING ON THE SINGULARITY ALREADY CLIPPY WAS NICE.
posted by saysthis at 7:52 AM on September 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
Serious question: does he have any redeeming qualities? Like, any at all?
posted by Room 641-A at 10:36 PM on September 2 [7 favorites +] [!]
That thing about how the entire country is asking the same question, except for racists, who are like, his redeeming quality is that he's a racist, but they're racists and dumb, and it's not the racism.
The redeeming quality is how did anyone get to be such an asshole you can't even process it. That's it.
And it's a real thing. Andrew Dice Clay is the benign form, I think? He still fills theaters, so there's something there.
We live in a world where that's enough to be president. BRING ON THE SINGULARITY ALREADY CLIPPY WAS NICE.
posted by saysthis at 7:52 AM on September 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
Didn't I also read that Sessions was in the room for the original letter, proving that his recusal was a sham?
Yep. The WaPo article has the following. (Not sure if this was in the original or is an update.)
posted by chris24 at 8:00 AM on September 2, 2017 [32 favorites]
Yep. The WaPo article has the following. (Not sure if this was in the original or is an update.)
McGahn raised another point: Sessions and Rosenstein were scheduled to visit the White House later the same day, and they had also been expressing displeasure with the FBI director. Shouldn’t Trump consult the two Justice officials, who were Comey’s supervisors, before moving forward?So Sessions knew about the first letter and its original rationale - Russia - and concocted a cover story for firing Comey. So he's as at risk legally as Miller, Rosenstein and Pence.
Trump agreed, meeting with Sessions and Rosenstein later that day. The president gave them a copy of his draft letter to explain his thinking, according to people familiar with the discussions.
The next day, Sessions submitted to the White House a brief letter outlining his position: He wrote that he had concluded a “fresh start” was needed at the FBI. [my bold] Rosenstein provided a longer memo, in which he outlined missteps he believed Comey had made in the course of the Clinton email probe, including criticizing Clinton’s conduct publicly despite announcing that she would face no criminal charges. Rosenstein called Comey’s derogatory comments a “textbook example of what federal prosecutors and agents are taught not to do.”
posted by chris24 at 8:00 AM on September 2, 2017 [32 favorites]
I may compile an updated sequence of events based on the additional notes you folks are providing. It's good to have other eyes on this to catch everything (there's so much crap going on here.)
Meanwhile, Trump takes a mulligan on being Presidential, planning second trip to Harvey devastated areas. Probably upset by all the positive press Pence was getting in his photo ops.
posted by darkstar at 8:09 AM on September 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
Meanwhile, Trump takes a mulligan on being Presidential, planning second trip to Harvey devastated areas. Probably upset by all the positive press Pence was getting in his photo ops.
posted by darkstar at 8:09 AM on September 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
> For the first time, there is a authentic human in the White House
So by this reasoning...Saint Reagan was a fraud? Interesting.
> Pence prayed at a church badly damaged by the storm, rolled up his sleeves as he met with victims whose homes were damaged...
Do you hear that? HE ROLLED UP HIS SLEEVES, PEOPLE. There is no more selfless human being than a politician who has rolled up his sleeves.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:17 AM on September 2, 2017 [34 favorites]
So by this reasoning...Saint Reagan was a fraud? Interesting.
> Pence prayed at a church badly damaged by the storm, rolled up his sleeves as he met with victims whose homes were damaged...
Do you hear that? HE ROLLED UP HIS SLEEVES, PEOPLE. There is no more selfless human being than a politician who has rolled up his sleeves.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:17 AM on September 2, 2017 [34 favorites]
North Texas Daily (the student newspaper at University of North Texas) reports that Donald Trump Jr. will receive $100,000 to speak, plus expenses.
The Washington Post has more details on this including: this is a doubling of what DJTJr has been paid in the past for speaking engagements, and of course the grift:
posted by peeedro at 8:39 AM on September 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
The Washington Post has more details on this including: this is a doubling of what DJTJr has been paid in the past for speaking engagements, and of course the grift:
Trump Jr. was invited by organizers of the UNT Kuehne Speaker Series, whose top sponsor this year is a corporate tax services firm headed by G. Brint Ryan, a UNT alum and well-connected GOP donor in Dallas who advised President Trump on tax policy during the campaign.This appears to be part of the wing nut welfare system, from the North Texas Daily: "The Kuehne Series is privately funded by sponsors and has hosted mainly conservative minds such as FOX Business Network host Melissa Francis and former New York City mayor Rudy Guiliani."
posted by peeedro at 8:39 AM on September 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
"The Kuehne Series is privately funded by sponsors and has hosted mainly conservative minds such as FOX Business Network host Melissa Francis and former New York City mayor Rudy Guiliani."
Can I get some sarcastic quotes around the word minds, please?
posted by wenestvedt at 8:41 AM on September 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
Can I get some sarcastic quotes around the word minds, please?
posted by wenestvedt at 8:41 AM on September 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
Katie Hopkin making case that Trump is an "authentic human". (Unconvincing)
Katie Hopkins is about as far as you can get from being an authentic human.
posted by walrus at 8:46 AM on September 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
Katie Hopkins is about as far as you can get from being an authentic human.
posted by walrus at 8:46 AM on September 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
Meanwhile, Trump takes a mulligan on being Presidential, planning second trip to Harvey devastated areas.
rant
FFS, Trump, stay out of our state already!
I don't remember how he originally phrased it, but it was something along the lines of, "I will take care of you". I don't need you to take care of me. I don't want you to take care of me. Especially with all the abusive parent stuff you seem to show.
I will not speak for all Texans, but as a Texan impacted by this storm (albeit, my fam made out about as perfectly as one can hope for), and having gone through Ike (didn't do so well in that one), Rita, etc., here are some things that are actually helpful:
1. Funding FEMA. Quick Google search shows Trump wanting to cut $667 million from the budget. (I'll let someone else do the math and see how his $1m contribution is evil.)
2. Actually have FEMA funds flow through to help people. (Still not happy about Ike)
3. Funding NOAA. They do yeomen's work providing amazing information and allowing people to make informed decisions on whether to evacuate or not.
4. Staying the hell out of our state, especially when your presence is just going to divert resources (again) at the exact wrong time.
We're kinda fucking busy getting shit back to a semblance of normal. We've done it before. We will do it again. Pump a couple of bucks to us, instead of removing bucks from the pool by having resources diverted.
/rant
In over 4 decades, I can't recall feeling this way about a prez, but this.... Ignoring the fact that so many of us are just burnt out from a long week... This just seems like "Photo Op, take 2". That's not how it works. You fucked up. You blew it. Sign an actual check, from the treasury no less, and stay the hell away while we do what we usually do.
And, I am pretty sure I don't have to say this in this room, but I would lay odds that the small donation I have made to the diaper bank, the small physical effort my wife has put in washing clothes for a displaced family, the "small" physical efforts we will be making over Sunday and Monday gutting houses and theatres is way more than Trump is actually going to do.
That million bucks is never showing up. On the off chance it is, it's coming from his foundation where he hasn't contributed to in almost a decade.
Huh.
I think I put the /rant tag a little too high.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 8:54 AM on September 2, 2017 [77 favorites]
rant
FFS, Trump, stay out of our state already!
I don't remember how he originally phrased it, but it was something along the lines of, "I will take care of you". I don't need you to take care of me. I don't want you to take care of me. Especially with all the abusive parent stuff you seem to show.
I will not speak for all Texans, but as a Texan impacted by this storm (albeit, my fam made out about as perfectly as one can hope for), and having gone through Ike (didn't do so well in that one), Rita, etc., here are some things that are actually helpful:
1. Funding FEMA. Quick Google search shows Trump wanting to cut $667 million from the budget. (I'll let someone else do the math and see how his $1m contribution is evil.)
2. Actually have FEMA funds flow through to help people. (Still not happy about Ike)
3. Funding NOAA. They do yeomen's work providing amazing information and allowing people to make informed decisions on whether to evacuate or not.
4. Staying the hell out of our state, especially when your presence is just going to divert resources (again) at the exact wrong time.
We're kinda fucking busy getting shit back to a semblance of normal. We've done it before. We will do it again. Pump a couple of bucks to us, instead of removing bucks from the pool by having resources diverted.
/rant
In over 4 decades, I can't recall feeling this way about a prez, but this.... Ignoring the fact that so many of us are just burnt out from a long week... This just seems like "Photo Op, take 2". That's not how it works. You fucked up. You blew it. Sign an actual check, from the treasury no less, and stay the hell away while we do what we usually do.
And, I am pretty sure I don't have to say this in this room, but I would lay odds that the small donation I have made to the diaper bank, the small physical effort my wife has put in washing clothes for a displaced family, the "small" physical efforts we will be making over Sunday and Monday gutting houses and theatres is way more than Trump is actually going to do.
That million bucks is never showing up. On the off chance it is, it's coming from his foundation where he hasn't contributed to in almost a decade.
Huh.
I think I put the /rant tag a little too high.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 8:54 AM on September 2, 2017 [77 favorites]
Katie Hopkin making case that Trump is an "authentic human" - @KTHopkins: Trump pledges $1 million of personal funds to help with #Harvey.
White House walks back promise about Trump donating his ‘personal money’ to Harvey victims
These people must really like rakes.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:55 AM on September 2, 2017 [14 favorites]
White House walks back promise about Trump donating his ‘personal money’ to Harvey victims
These people must really like rakes.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:55 AM on September 2, 2017 [14 favorites]
Serious question: does he have any redeeming qualities? Like, any at all?
As a straight white cis-male progressive, during the Obama administration it was easy to think that we were past the hump on racism and (by the end) LGBTQ, making significant strides in women's rights and that the time had come to seriously start focusing on socioeconomic class issues. It's a big part of why so many supported Bernie (or Warren followed by Bernie followed by Hillary in my case - I still wanted, and want, to break the gender barrier if possible).
That assessment was, uh, pretty clearly not the case. This may not have been so readily apparent without Trump - even a lesser evil like Pence likely would have been insufficient to underscore just how much work remains on race. In-law of an in-law is a wizard in the KKK, and by 2015 he was down to just occasional comments about "towelheads" implementing Sharia. It was easy to believe that antisemitism in the US had gone out with polio.
I realize there's some chicken/egg causality shit with Trump emboldening the quietly racist, but his administration has definitely opened my eyes about just how bad things really are, in a way no Democratic administration ever could.
The man himself is of course pan-human toxicity distilled and congealed into a pre-sentient mass of technically human cells. I mean, Hitler was a pretty decent orator for terrible beliefs and Stalin had his moments of evil brilliance. Trump? ...I got nothing.
posted by Ryvar at 8:55 AM on September 2, 2017 [26 favorites]
As a straight white cis-male progressive, during the Obama administration it was easy to think that we were past the hump on racism and (by the end) LGBTQ, making significant strides in women's rights and that the time had come to seriously start focusing on socioeconomic class issues. It's a big part of why so many supported Bernie (or Warren followed by Bernie followed by Hillary in my case - I still wanted, and want, to break the gender barrier if possible).
That assessment was, uh, pretty clearly not the case. This may not have been so readily apparent without Trump - even a lesser evil like Pence likely would have been insufficient to underscore just how much work remains on race. In-law of an in-law is a wizard in the KKK, and by 2015 he was down to just occasional comments about "towelheads" implementing Sharia. It was easy to believe that antisemitism in the US had gone out with polio.
I realize there's some chicken/egg causality shit with Trump emboldening the quietly racist, but his administration has definitely opened my eyes about just how bad things really are, in a way no Democratic administration ever could.
The man himself is of course pan-human toxicity distilled and congealed into a pre-sentient mass of technically human cells. I mean, Hitler was a pretty decent orator for terrible beliefs and Stalin had his moments of evil brilliance. Trump? ...I got nothing.
posted by Ryvar at 8:55 AM on September 2, 2017 [26 favorites]
I think I put the /rant tag a little too high.
The rant is too damn high.
posted by SPrintF at 9:03 AM on September 2, 2017 [56 favorites]
The rant is too damn high.
posted by SPrintF at 9:03 AM on September 2, 2017 [56 favorites]
Ryvar- that is pretty much my go-to when I desperately try to find something, anything, positive about this whole fucking fiasco. Expose it all so we can excise it.
posted by PorcineWithMe at 9:04 AM on September 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by PorcineWithMe at 9:04 AM on September 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
Here's another presidential mulligan: After Harvey, the Trump administration reconsiders flood rules it just rolled back. But it's pretty much meaningless for Harvey recovery funds because these agency rules takes years to write and implement.
posted by peeedro at 9:05 AM on September 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by peeedro at 9:05 AM on September 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
Last night I found myself on somebody's FB thread where a friend (of theirs, not mine) said people shouldn't criticize 45's donation pledge until they had donated to Harvey relief. He was sticking up for 45, btw; this wasn't an attempt at motivation. And I just...
That challenge is bullshit on the face of it, and I know it. Gatekeeping, elitist, presumes people aren't hanging on by their fingernails as it is, all that. But on a personal level, I had already thrown what money I could at translifeline.org to support people who'd be impacted by the military transgender ban garbage just before Harvey hit. I've got a recurring donation going to the ACLU to fight all this bullshit. I threw a significant chunk of my income earlier this year to the International Rescue Committee to help refugees who'd be hurt by that other stupid ban. And I can't even remember the rest. Now there's Harvey and I am tapped the fuck out.
And the thing is, I don't feel good about any of it at all. I like that little "I did something good today" feeling. And yeah, I like it if somebody pats me on the back for that kinda stuff. Normally I'd be embarrassed to admit that. That's not why I try to help; I try because it's the right thing to do and I'd want someone to help me if I was in need. But it's there. I'm not completely immune to the self-interest bits.
Then it hit me last night that I don't feel good about any of that at all. There's no good here. There's no solace or "did my part" feeling or anything. There's just sadness and anger. No sort of lift at all from trying to help. It's like I'm rage-donating.
I can go donate blood, but after that I'm just looking at my finances and there's still so much harm being done and all I've got is anger.
People actually voted for this shit.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:17 AM on September 2, 2017 [64 favorites]
That challenge is bullshit on the face of it, and I know it. Gatekeeping, elitist, presumes people aren't hanging on by their fingernails as it is, all that. But on a personal level, I had already thrown what money I could at translifeline.org to support people who'd be impacted by the military transgender ban garbage just before Harvey hit. I've got a recurring donation going to the ACLU to fight all this bullshit. I threw a significant chunk of my income earlier this year to the International Rescue Committee to help refugees who'd be hurt by that other stupid ban. And I can't even remember the rest. Now there's Harvey and I am tapped the fuck out.
And the thing is, I don't feel good about any of it at all. I like that little "I did something good today" feeling. And yeah, I like it if somebody pats me on the back for that kinda stuff. Normally I'd be embarrassed to admit that. That's not why I try to help; I try because it's the right thing to do and I'd want someone to help me if I was in need. But it's there. I'm not completely immune to the self-interest bits.
Then it hit me last night that I don't feel good about any of that at all. There's no good here. There's no solace or "did my part" feeling or anything. There's just sadness and anger. No sort of lift at all from trying to help. It's like I'm rage-donating.
I can go donate blood, but after that I'm just looking at my finances and there's still so much harm being done and all I've got is anger.
People actually voted for this shit.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:17 AM on September 2, 2017 [64 favorites]
You shouldn't criticize the President for not donating to Hurricane Harvey victims until you make your own fake pledge to donate.
posted by guiseroom at 9:28 AM on September 2, 2017 [59 favorites]
posted by guiseroom at 9:28 AM on September 2, 2017 [59 favorites]
He should just start announcing his donations as 1 kajillion dollars. I mean, if you are not going to give the money, why leave it at a million?
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 9:34 AM on September 2, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 9:34 AM on September 2, 2017 [21 favorites]
The donation thing is so enraging. Like, I WILL DONATE ONE MILLION DOLLARS is literally the least a (supposed) billionaire could do for the sake of optics. It's a slap in the face, and now they're even walking that back?! I would have been grudgingly impressed if Trump had announced that his presidential salary for the rest of his term would be earmarked for hurricane relief; it wouldn't have been significantly more money (again, for a real billionaire), and as symbolism would have meant so much to people in Texas, especially his supporters. But he can't even do something as basic as "show empathy to Americans who have lost everything" without stepping on his own dick. It's like the perfect distillation of my dude's incompetence and inhumanity.
I don't know why I'm perseverating on this, in the face of so much other awful shit that's going on. I guess I finally canted my last even.
posted by donatella at 9:54 AM on September 2, 2017 [27 favorites]
I don't know why I'm perseverating on this, in the face of so much other awful shit that's going on. I guess I finally canted my last even.
posted by donatella at 9:54 AM on September 2, 2017 [27 favorites]
For the first time, there is an authentic human in the White House
Maybe she meant, like, first time since January.
White House walks back promise about Trump donating his ‘personal money’ to Harvey victims
So much for that
posted by rifflesby at 9:58 AM on September 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
Maybe she meant, like, first time since January.
White House walks back promise about Trump donating his ‘personal money’ to Harvey victims
So much for that
posted by rifflesby at 9:58 AM on September 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
Serious question: does he have any redeeming qualities? Like, any at all?
Cautionary tale? Organ donor? . . . Final seal? More seriously, he's a very damaged or debilitated human being, so far as I am aware, and as an ostensible American (have we seen his birth certificate?), The United States Constitution confers upon him certain unalienable rights.
So, for what it's worth, the framers deemed Drumpf and his allegedly immoral, unethical clan to be worthy of certain things that are not able to be taken away. Among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. There must be a quality that provides those rights, and it is the apparent creation by G-d that is the culprit. Er, excuse. Explanation. Whichever.
Look, this is not going to work out well for anyone, but we're way past the age of the guillotine as a political remedy. Perhaps not inconveniently in this case, we are in the age of civil forfeiture, and perhaps there is yet some value to be had in wringing whatever comparatively paltry sum my be excised from his ill-gotten empire and restoring, say, environmental protections from it.
Would that be redeeming, though? *GRU shrug*
posted by petebest at 10:07 AM on September 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
Cautionary tale? Organ donor? . . . Final seal? More seriously, he's a very damaged or debilitated human being, so far as I am aware, and as an ostensible American (have we seen his birth certificate?), The United States Constitution confers upon him certain unalienable rights.
So, for what it's worth, the framers deemed Drumpf and his allegedly immoral, unethical clan to be worthy of certain things that are not able to be taken away. Among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. There must be a quality that provides those rights, and it is the apparent creation by G-d that is the culprit. Er, excuse. Explanation. Whichever.
Look, this is not going to work out well for anyone, but we're way past the age of the guillotine as a political remedy. Perhaps not inconveniently in this case, we are in the age of civil forfeiture, and perhaps there is yet some value to be had in wringing whatever comparatively paltry sum my be excised from his ill-gotten empire and restoring, say, environmental protections from it.
Would that be redeeming, though? *GRU shrug*
posted by petebest at 10:07 AM on September 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
Serious question: does he have any redeeming qualities? Like, any at all?
A thing I've said on here before: even the worst presidents before him have done real, concrete, vital, unarguable good in the world.
Dubya's crimes and fuck-ups don't need a rehash. But with those in mind, this is a dude who is also personally responsible for the funding that cause huge strides against HIV/AIDS in sub-Saharan Africa. It gets forgotten. He didn't bang on that cause like he did with his wars and whatever, but it's real and it's important. Thousands of people are alive today who otherwise wouldn't be. It's not terribly hard to find good things that Nixon did, or Reagan, or others. And all of them -- ALL of them could show humanity and provide emotional comfort in times of tragedy.
Given the enormous powers of the office and the expansive scope of the executive's reach, 45 should have at least accidentally done some good by now. He should have stumbled into some measure of altruism or benevolence, even if only through negligence. And he hasn't even managed that.
I've looked. It's important to me, if only for the sake of intellectual honesty, to be able to give credit where credit is due. 45 has nothing. Nothing. The closest I can come is him rattling the cage on the gross expense and waste of the F-35 program, which is a fucking no-brainer to begin with, and even there he managed to do more harm than good.
It's garbage. All garbage, all the way down.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:29 AM on September 2, 2017 [92 favorites]
A thing I've said on here before: even the worst presidents before him have done real, concrete, vital, unarguable good in the world.
Dubya's crimes and fuck-ups don't need a rehash. But with those in mind, this is a dude who is also personally responsible for the funding that cause huge strides against HIV/AIDS in sub-Saharan Africa. It gets forgotten. He didn't bang on that cause like he did with his wars and whatever, but it's real and it's important. Thousands of people are alive today who otherwise wouldn't be. It's not terribly hard to find good things that Nixon did, or Reagan, or others. And all of them -- ALL of them could show humanity and provide emotional comfort in times of tragedy.
Given the enormous powers of the office and the expansive scope of the executive's reach, 45 should have at least accidentally done some good by now. He should have stumbled into some measure of altruism or benevolence, even if only through negligence. And he hasn't even managed that.
I've looked. It's important to me, if only for the sake of intellectual honesty, to be able to give credit where credit is due. 45 has nothing. Nothing. The closest I can come is him rattling the cage on the gross expense and waste of the F-35 program, which is a fucking no-brainer to begin with, and even there he managed to do more harm than good.
It's garbage. All garbage, all the way down.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:29 AM on September 2, 2017 [92 favorites]
> White House walks back promise about Trump donating his ‘personal money’ to Harvey victims
Sometimes I wonder if Trump has it written into his will that his money is to be buried with him when he dies.
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:35 AM on September 2, 2017 [9 favorites]
Sometimes I wonder if Trump has it written into his will that his money is to be buried with him when he dies.
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:35 AM on September 2, 2017 [9 favorites]
Trying to think of a clock metaphor and the best I can do is "A clock that some asshole sold the hands to the Russians is never correct."
posted by rifflesby at 10:37 AM on September 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by rifflesby at 10:37 AM on September 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
Sometimes I wonder if Trump has it written into his will that his money is to be buried with him when he dies.
I would be happy for that - at the least it would mean none of his hideous spawn getting it.
posted by Artw at 10:37 AM on September 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
I would be happy for that - at the least it would mean none of his hideous spawn getting it.
posted by Artw at 10:37 AM on September 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
He should just start announcing his donations as 1 kajillion dollars. I mean, if you are not going to give the money, why leave it at a million?
Even in his imagination he's cheap.
posted by chris24 at 10:41 AM on September 2, 2017 [21 favorites]
Even in his imagination he's cheap.
posted by chris24 at 10:41 AM on September 2, 2017 [21 favorites]
Trump pulls back threat to shut down government over border wall — for now
(WaPo, Wonkblog, Damian Paletta)
posted by syzygy at 10:49 AM on September 2, 2017 [11 favorites]
(WaPo, Wonkblog, Damian Paletta)
The White House has signaled to congressional Republicans that it will not shut down the government in October if money isn’t appropriated to build a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border, potentially clearing a path for lawmakers to reach a short-term budget deal.So much winning.
posted by syzygy at 10:49 AM on September 2, 2017 [11 favorites]
Even in his imagination he's cheap.
But considers himself generous, to a fault, no doubt.
posted by tilde at 10:49 AM on September 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
TRUMP'S CLAIM THAT OBAMA WIRETAPPED HIS CAMPAIGN IS FALSE: U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
(Newsweek, Nina Burleigh)
(Newsweek, Nina Burleigh)
In a stunning filing last night, the Department of Justice stated in a court case that neither the FBI nor its National Security Division ever wiretapped Trump Tower, contradicting a bombshell claim President Trump made in a series of early morning tweets on March 4.posted by syzygy at 11:17 AM on September 2, 2017 [55 favorites]
The document is the first time the Department of Justice has officially denied the substance of the Tweets.
neither the FBI nor its National Security Division ever wiretapped Trump Tower
So what are we paying them for?
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:20 AM on September 2, 2017 [27 favorites]
So what are we paying them for?
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:20 AM on September 2, 2017 [27 favorites]
WaPo: Trump preparing withdrawal from South Korea trade deal
I cannot for the life of me see the angle here. Is he just randomly swinging at any and all trade deals?
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:23 AM on September 2, 2017 [12 favorites]
I cannot for the life of me see the angle here. Is he just randomly swinging at any and all trade deals?
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:23 AM on September 2, 2017 [12 favorites]
It could be as simple as him trying to retaliate for what he sees as insufficient gratitude on his North Korea efforts (if "efforts" is even the right word for what he's been doing). So far "spite" seems to be a pretty good default guess when trying to explain his behavior.WaPo: Trump preparing withdrawal from South Korea trade dealI cannot for the life of me see the angle here. Is he just randomly swinging at any and all trade deals?
posted by Nerd of the North at 11:28 AM on September 2, 2017 [11 favorites]
I cannot for the life of me see the angle here. Is he just randomly swinging at any and all trade deals?
Can't make things worse for regional allies with your North Korea policy if you don't have any regional allies.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:30 AM on September 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
Can't make things worse for regional allies with your North Korea policy if you don't have any regional allies.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:30 AM on September 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
I cannot for the life of me see the angle here. Is he just randomly swinging at any and all trade deals?
Trump's measure of a trade deal seems to be the balance of trade between the parties. The US has a trade deficit with South Korea, so in his mind, it must be a bad deal. Plus, the procedure to end the deal is easy for him, so he gets a "win".
I don't think he understands the greater foreign policy consequences of alienating South Korea. He probably just views it as asserting dominance.
posted by papercrane at 11:35 AM on September 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
Trump's measure of a trade deal seems to be the balance of trade between the parties. The US has a trade deficit with South Korea, so in his mind, it must be a bad deal. Plus, the procedure to end the deal is easy for him, so he gets a "win".
I don't think he understands the greater foreign policy consequences of alienating South Korea. He probably just views it as asserting dominance.
posted by papercrane at 11:35 AM on September 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
a non mouse, a cow herd: "I mean, I know it is technically possible to remove web browsers completely from your phone, but could Trump do it? "
These people aren't IT sophisticates; removing the browser icon is easy and probably equivalent in their minds.
It's trivially easy to actually restrict this on an iphone. Settings/General/Restrictions. Turn them on (and set a passcode) and turn off the ability to use Safari and install applications.
It's easier (and has more complicated configuration possibilities) if the device is in MDM management, which an Executive branch issued device presumably is.
It would take some testing to see how this would impact links clicked in a twitter client.
posted by phearlez at 11:35 AM on September 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
These people aren't IT sophisticates; removing the browser icon is easy and probably equivalent in their minds.
It's trivially easy to actually restrict this on an iphone. Settings/General/Restrictions. Turn them on (and set a passcode) and turn off the ability to use Safari and install applications.
It's easier (and has more complicated configuration possibilities) if the device is in MDM management, which an Executive branch issued device presumably is.
It would take some testing to see how this would impact links clicked in a twitter client.
posted by phearlez at 11:35 AM on September 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
Some trip reports:
Trump went to do a photo-op serving food in Houston, was going to put on gloves, and announced "my hands are too big" [video] before receiving another pair.
He also said "have a good time, everybody" to people at the NRG center, which is being used as a shelter.
posted by zachlipton at 11:36 AM on September 2, 2017 [48 favorites]
Trump went to do a photo-op serving food in Houston, was going to put on gloves, and announced "my hands are too big" [video] before receiving another pair.
He also said "have a good time, everybody" to people at the NRG center, which is being used as a shelter.
posted by zachlipton at 11:36 AM on September 2, 2017 [48 favorites]
Is he just randomly swinging at any and all trade deals?
Why yes, yes he is.
posted by Buntix at 11:38 AM on September 2, 2017 [10 favorites]
Why yes, yes he is.
posted by Buntix at 11:38 AM on September 2, 2017 [10 favorites]
The White House has signaled to congressional Republicans that it will not shut down the government in October if money isn’t appropriated to build a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border, potentially clearing a path for lawmakers to reach a short-term budget deal.
A short term continuing resolution means no new reconciliation instructions until the CR expires or is replaced by an actual budget, which would push tax "reform" into January 2018. If they can't pass a real budget, Republicans are already cramping the 2018 legislative calendar. They'll have about 7 months until August or so when the 2018 midterms will takeover everything. They haven't even released a real tax plan, much less tried to sell it to Americans who won't actually see any benefits unless they're billionaires. There's a growing likelihood Republicans get literally nothing out of their legislative agenda other than Neil Gorsuch before the midterms.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:46 AM on September 2, 2017 [14 favorites]
A short term continuing resolution means no new reconciliation instructions until the CR expires or is replaced by an actual budget, which would push tax "reform" into January 2018. If they can't pass a real budget, Republicans are already cramping the 2018 legislative calendar. They'll have about 7 months until August or so when the 2018 midterms will takeover everything. They haven't even released a real tax plan, much less tried to sell it to Americans who won't actually see any benefits unless they're billionaires. There's a growing likelihood Republicans get literally nothing out of their legislative agenda other than Neil Gorsuch before the midterms.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:46 AM on September 2, 2017 [14 favorites]
When asked what the families in the flood evacuation shelter told him, Trump said "they were just happy, we saw a lot of happiness. It's been really nice. It's been a wonderful thing. As tough as it was, it's been a wonderful thing. I think even for the country to watch here, for the world to watch. It's been beautiful. Have a good time everybody. I'm going to be doing a little help over here."
Can someone get him one of those "happy, sad, mad, glad, scared" charts you use to teach kids about feelings?
posted by zachlipton at 11:53 AM on September 2, 2017 [46 favorites]
Can someone get him one of those "happy, sad, mad, glad, scared" charts you use to teach kids about feelings?
posted by zachlipton at 11:53 AM on September 2, 2017 [46 favorites]
He also said "have a good time, everybody" to people at the NRG center, which is being used as a shelter.
What is the matter with him? He just... can't do anything right. Law of averages would seem to dictate that he would occasionally stumble on the right words. This poor country. *cries*
posted by greermahoney at 11:56 AM on September 2, 2017 [35 favorites]
What is the matter with him? He just... can't do anything right. Law of averages would seem to dictate that he would occasionally stumble on the right words. This poor country. *cries*
posted by greermahoney at 11:56 AM on September 2, 2017 [35 favorites]
Last night I found myself on somebody's FB thread where a friend (of theirs, not mine) said people shouldn't criticize 45's donation pledge until they had donated to Harvey relief.
You know, let me join my fellow Southeast Texans by just ranting a little here. The thing is, those of us in the area of the storm? We've donated a lot more than money. The money I've given was to individuals I know who were hurting, stuck without groceries and no cash to buy any. My husband spent a day driving around town delivering paychecks to Houstonians because there's no mail service of any kind. We've reached out to our friends who've lost everything with transportation and food and physical assistance. Those who can are helping move remaining belongings out of ruined homes, sharing what they have, working at shelters. Local people sat hours in line to donate the immediate goods people needed and to volunteer. People are still out in boats doing rescues, dispatching aid where it's needed, rescuing animals and livestock.
Those of you who aren't here? Send money. Don't send your crap, your prayers, or anything else. Money. The government response has been incredibly underwhelming, basically waiting for the water to recede before taking any steps while civilians with boats rescue people. Where is FEMA providing food and water? When my friends had no food I couldn't find any information about that even happening as it has in past storms.
The people on the ground are donating a lot more than money, and we're donating it to our neighbors and family and friends. The fact that the best the fucking President can do is make a weak offer of his pocket change that he hasn't even donated yet, and which he apparently can't figure out where to donate, and that the town isn't inundated with federal relief (with the exception of the National Guard, who finally showed up after several days of nothing) is just slap in the fucking face.
posted by threeturtles at 12:09 PM on September 2, 2017 [78 favorites]
You know, let me join my fellow Southeast Texans by just ranting a little here. The thing is, those of us in the area of the storm? We've donated a lot more than money. The money I've given was to individuals I know who were hurting, stuck without groceries and no cash to buy any. My husband spent a day driving around town delivering paychecks to Houstonians because there's no mail service of any kind. We've reached out to our friends who've lost everything with transportation and food and physical assistance. Those who can are helping move remaining belongings out of ruined homes, sharing what they have, working at shelters. Local people sat hours in line to donate the immediate goods people needed and to volunteer. People are still out in boats doing rescues, dispatching aid where it's needed, rescuing animals and livestock.
Those of you who aren't here? Send money. Don't send your crap, your prayers, or anything else. Money. The government response has been incredibly underwhelming, basically waiting for the water to recede before taking any steps while civilians with boats rescue people. Where is FEMA providing food and water? When my friends had no food I couldn't find any information about that even happening as it has in past storms.
The people on the ground are donating a lot more than money, and we're donating it to our neighbors and family and friends. The fact that the best the fucking President can do is make a weak offer of his pocket change that he hasn't even donated yet, and which he apparently can't figure out where to donate, and that the town isn't inundated with federal relief (with the exception of the National Guard, who finally showed up after several days of nothing) is just slap in the fucking face.
posted by threeturtles at 12:09 PM on September 2, 2017 [78 favorites]
Trump must be great at funerals.
"I saw the body. She looked very, very good. Just terrific. A little pale. My hands are much bigger than hers, too, and I'm not dead. It's very sad. Very, very sad. Have a good time, everybody! Try the chocolate cake."
posted by guiseroom at 12:11 PM on September 2, 2017 [72 favorites]
"I saw the body. She looked very, very good. Just terrific. A little pale. My hands are much bigger than hers, too, and I'm not dead. It's very sad. Very, very sad. Have a good time, everybody! Try the chocolate cake."
posted by guiseroom at 12:11 PM on September 2, 2017 [72 favorites]
Fun fact: Google claims Trump's net worth is $3.5bn, which makes $1m approximately 0.03% of his net worth. A generous estimate of the average American's net worth is between $100k and $200k. So that's the equivalent of donating $30 to $60 for most normal people. Assuming he's not lying about his net worth. And assuming people really are worth that much. And which he's not going to do anyway.
posted by parm at 12:16 PM on September 2, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by parm at 12:16 PM on September 2, 2017 [16 favorites]
When asked what the families in the flood evacuation shelter told him, Trump said "they were just happy, we saw a lot of happiness. It's been really nice. It's been a wonderful thing. As tough as it was, it's been a wonderful thing. I think even for the country to watch here, for the world to watch. It's been beautiful. Have a good time everybody. I'm going to be doing a little help over here."
I guess he's been hanging out with Barbara Bush.
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:24 PM on September 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
I guess he's been hanging out with Barbara Bush.
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:24 PM on September 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
It would take some testing to see how this would impact links clicked in a twitter client.
I would imagine 140 characters already taxes his attention span quite enough to make clicking on links unnecessary.
posted by walrus at 12:29 PM on September 2, 2017
I would imagine 140 characters already taxes his attention span quite enough to make clicking on links unnecessary.
posted by walrus at 12:29 PM on September 2, 2017
Is he just randomly swinging at any and all trade deals?
Pretty much, but Trump has brought up the South Korea trade deal before.
posted by furtive at 12:33 PM on September 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
Pretty much, but Trump has brought up the South Korea trade deal before.
posted by furtive at 12:33 PM on September 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
yeah, when I wade around in water with fecal contamination trying to find my kids' birth certificates or whatever and DJT comes to town, I expect to be just bursting with happiness. It'll be like one of those videos of somebody laughing their head off as they shave off their eyebrows
posted by angrycat at 12:34 PM on September 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 12:34 PM on September 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
"I'm going to be doing a little help over here."
Awww...he wants to help! Bless his heart. Someone hand him a toy trowel and a pail, so he can help out. Who's a big boy???
posted by darkstar at 12:47 PM on September 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
Awww...he wants to help! Bless his heart. Someone hand him a toy trowel and a pail, so he can help out. Who's a big boy???
posted by darkstar at 12:47 PM on September 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
One, two, three o'clock, four o'clock dropposted by tilde at 12:49 PM on September 2, 2017 [16 favorites]
Five, six, seven o'clock, eight o'clock drop
Nine, ten, eleven o'clock, twelve o'clock drop
We're gonna rock around oppo drop tonight
Put your #hashtags on, join me, Hon
We'll have some fun when oppo drops at one
We're gonna rock around the drop tonight
We're gonna rock opp drop 'til broad daylight
Wer're gonna rock, gonna rock around the drop tonight
When the clock strikes two, three and four
If the drops slow down we'll look for more
We're gonna rock around the oppo drop tonight
We're gonna rock oppo drop, 'til broad daylight
We're gonna rock, gonna rock around the drop tonight
[Instrumental Tuba Interlude]
When tweets spurt out at five, six, and seven
We'll be right in seventh heaven
We're gonna rock around the oppo drop tonight
We're gonna rock opp drops 'til broad daylight
We're gonna rock, gonna rock the oppo drops tonight
CNN: "It's good exercise": President Trump helps load supplies into a truck at a church during his tour of Harvey damage
Wait, I thought he didn't believe in exercise?
posted by dhens at 12:51 PM on September 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
Wait, I thought he didn't believe in exercise?
posted by dhens at 12:51 PM on September 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
ICE is a criminal organization and must be dissolved and tried as such.
ACLU of Colorado: ICE Is Abusing the ACLU’s Clients Because They are Fighting Trump’s Deportation Machine
It was an evening in late July when an ICE guard told France Anwar Elias and several other Iraqi men in immigration custody in Arizona that they were going to be released. France described the feeling as, “going from death back again to life.” The men broke out in tears and embraced one another. Many of them had been in immigration custody for months, unsure of the future and frightened for what could happen if they were deported to Iraq, where they face near-certain persecution, torture, or death.
Hours later and only after the men shed their uniforms and changed into regular clothes, the guards broke the news that they were actually just being transferred to yet another immigration detention facility. Kamran Malik said that the news felt like “a knife through the heart.” He had already called his family to tell them that he was coming home, and they were waiting to celebrate.
France distinctly remembers a guard saying, with a smirk, “Sorry for the misunderstanding.”
This was not a misunderstanding.
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:54 PM on September 2, 2017 [69 favorites]
ACLU of Colorado: ICE Is Abusing the ACLU’s Clients Because They are Fighting Trump’s Deportation Machine
It was an evening in late July when an ICE guard told France Anwar Elias and several other Iraqi men in immigration custody in Arizona that they were going to be released. France described the feeling as, “going from death back again to life.” The men broke out in tears and embraced one another. Many of them had been in immigration custody for months, unsure of the future and frightened for what could happen if they were deported to Iraq, where they face near-certain persecution, torture, or death.
Hours later and only after the men shed their uniforms and changed into regular clothes, the guards broke the news that they were actually just being transferred to yet another immigration detention facility. Kamran Malik said that the news felt like “a knife through the heart.” He had already called his family to tell them that he was coming home, and they were waiting to celebrate.
France distinctly remembers a guard saying, with a smirk, “Sorry for the misunderstanding.”
This was not a misunderstanding.
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:54 PM on September 2, 2017 [69 favorites]
Although the situations are radically different, compare and contrast President Obama's visit to Newtown after Sandy Hook with Trump in his two visits to Texas.
I honestly can't imagine telling people in a disaster area to have fun. Someone needs to program him better. The bugs in his software are an embarassment.
posted by Silverstone at 1:00 PM on September 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
I honestly can't imagine telling people in a disaster area to have fun. Someone needs to program him better. The bugs in his software are an embarassment.
posted by Silverstone at 1:00 PM on September 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
CNN: "It's good exercise": President Trump helps load supplies into a truck at a church during his tour of Harvey damage
I realize this is a bit of a nitpick but who on earth helps load a pickup truck by awkwardly handing a box through the side window to the driver instead of just putting it in the back of the truck?
posted by ActingTheGoat at 1:04 PM on September 2, 2017 [28 favorites]
I realize this is a bit of a nitpick but who on earth helps load a pickup truck by awkwardly handing a box through the side window to the driver instead of just putting it in the back of the truck?
posted by ActingTheGoat at 1:04 PM on September 2, 2017 [28 favorites]
In which Garrett Haake tells us that we're all seeing the 'Grandpa' Trump that was there all along, as demonstrated by DJT's performance today, and Twitter is like lol fuck no
posted by angrycat at 1:14 PM on September 2, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 1:14 PM on September 2, 2017 [10 favorites]
I realize this is a bit of a nitpick but who on earth helps load a pickup truck by awkwardly handing a box through the side window to the driver instead of just putting it in the back of the truck?
A man who has literally never done a lick of manual labor in his life?
posted by Room 101 at 1:21 PM on September 2, 2017 [58 favorites]
A man who has literally never done a lick of manual labor in his life?
posted by Room 101 at 1:21 PM on September 2, 2017 [58 favorites]
BillMoyers.com: What Trump and His Team Have Wrecked So Far, a high level summation of their "#while he was tweeting" tagged articles.
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:32 PM on September 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:32 PM on September 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
ActingTheGoat not a nitpick. It made me actually watch the video, and then emit a sound like a dying animal as I watched the president of the United States hand a five-gallon bucket through the window of a pickup truck, for the driver to hold on his fucking lap, apparently. Took a full minute to recover my words.
posted by mabelstreet at 1:33 PM on September 2, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by mabelstreet at 1:33 PM on September 2, 2017 [15 favorites]
Okay, you guys made me go watch the video and jebus that was cringe-inducing. His handlers walk each box over to him next to the truck and hand them to him, he then sets them down in the back of the truck so they aren't flat or stable, and after three, he's done.
Those folks in the truck are gonna have to pull over once they get around the corner and actually rearrange it all so it's not flying everywhere.
Then I thought that Trump maybe has a bad back, so he can't lift, and I felt a little guilty for judging him for not carrying a box or reaching to re-position one securely.
Then I click to CNN where they have a clip of him in another photo op ostentatiously lifting up and kissing an African-American child.
This is what I get for trying to give him the benefit of the doubt once in a while even though he repeatedly demonstrates he hasn't earned it. As Homer Simpson once put it: Never try.
posted by darkstar at 1:52 PM on September 2, 2017 [12 favorites]
Those folks in the truck are gonna have to pull over once they get around the corner and actually rearrange it all so it's not flying everywhere.
Then I thought that Trump maybe has a bad back, so he can't lift, and I felt a little guilty for judging him for not carrying a box or reaching to re-position one securely.
Then I click to CNN where they have a clip of him in another photo op ostentatiously lifting up and kissing an African-American child.
This is what I get for trying to give him the benefit of the doubt once in a while even though he repeatedly demonstrates he hasn't earned it. As Homer Simpson once put it: Never try.
posted by darkstar at 1:52 PM on September 2, 2017 [12 favorites]
I hope this really turns into a "how much could a banana cost?" moment for him. [see also]
posted by rhizome at 1:54 PM on September 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 1:54 PM on September 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
Sometimes I wonder if Trump has it written into his will that his money is to be buried with him when he dies.
Trump is Simon Greedwell
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:55 PM on September 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trump is Simon Greedwell
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:55 PM on September 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
the damage is worse than Katrina and the FEMA response is more incompetent
Uh, I find this hard to believe. As far as I know there aren't people camped out at the Astrodome without supplies with FEMA literally having no idea about it for over a week. FEMA may not be everywhere, but the response looks light years ahead of Katrina, and there's actual people who know what they're doing in charge on the ground, not a guy who judged horses for Saudi princes for his entire career prior to running FEMA.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:57 PM on September 2, 2017 [9 favorites]
Uh, I find this hard to believe. As far as I know there aren't people camped out at the Astrodome without supplies with FEMA literally having no idea about it for over a week. FEMA may not be everywhere, but the response looks light years ahead of Katrina, and there's actual people who know what they're doing in charge on the ground, not a guy who judged horses for Saudi princes for his entire career prior to running FEMA.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:57 PM on September 2, 2017 [9 favorites]
It made me actually watch the video, and then emit a sound like a dying animal as I watched the president of the United States hand a five-gallon bucket through the window of a pickup truck, for the driver to hold on his fucking lap, apparently.
It looked like the bucket was empty, too, if not all the boxes. And that was a half-ass box-stacking job.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:06 PM on September 2, 2017 [10 favorites]
Trump went to do a photo-op serving food in Houston, was going to put on gloves, and announced "my hands are too big" [video] before receiving another pair.
If somebody intentionally gave Trump a pair of children's gloves, they are an American hero.
posted by vathek at 2:08 PM on September 2, 2017 [54 favorites]
If somebody intentionally gave Trump a pair of children's gloves, they are an American hero.
posted by vathek at 2:08 PM on September 2, 2017 [54 favorites]
Giving him ones that are oversized would be funnier
posted by phearlez at 2:24 PM on September 2, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by phearlez at 2:24 PM on September 2, 2017 [20 favorites]
So, DACA question, in case anyone can point me to relevant law for nonlaywers, what are the penalties for citizens who harbor daca kids?
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 2:27 PM on September 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 2:27 PM on September 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
Just got a NYT alert on my phone:
President Trump met with survivors on his second visit to Texas since Harvey. "They're really happy" with recovery efforts, he said.
First, I would love to see the actual word for word quote. Did he really connect happy with recovery efforts? Or did he just blurt out "They're really happy" without any context? Second, this man is incapable of speaking without spin. Just show up and say, "It's a big league tragedy, it really is." Then shut up. You'd win all the coverage.
Asshole.
posted by Glibpaxman at 2:28 PM on September 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
President Trump met with survivors on his second visit to Texas since Harvey. "They're really happy" with recovery efforts, he said.
First, I would love to see the actual word for word quote. Did he really connect happy with recovery efforts? Or did he just blurt out "They're really happy" without any context? Second, this man is incapable of speaking without spin. Just show up and say, "It's a big league tragedy, it really is." Then shut up. You'd win all the coverage.
Asshole.
posted by Glibpaxman at 2:28 PM on September 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
Inevitable reference:
If the gloves don't fit...
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:29 PM on September 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
If the gloves don't fit...
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:29 PM on September 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
Giving him ones that are oversized would be funnier
Preferable if they're clearly marked "Medium".
posted by paper chromatographologist at 2:31 PM on September 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
Preferable if they're clearly marked "Medium".
posted by paper chromatographologist at 2:31 PM on September 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
I have not seen this linked here yet and can't find it with a search...
Philip Bump at WaPo: What Trump has undone
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:42 PM on September 2, 2017 [36 favorites]
Philip Bump at WaPo: What Trump has undone
We’ve decided to update this list on a weekly basis. Items that have been added or updated since the last iteration are highlighted in yellow.Etc.
President Trump has repeatedly argued that he’s done more than any other recent president. That’s not true, as measured by the amount of legislation he’s been able to sign. It is true, though, that Trump has undone a lot of things that were put into place by his predecessors, including President Barack Obama.
Since Jan. 20, Trump’s administration has enthusiastically and systematically undone or uprooted rules, policies and tools that predated his time in office. Below, a list of those changes, roughly organized by subject area.
...
Revoked a rule that expanded the number of people who could earn overtime pay.
...
Revoked an executive order that mandated compliance by contractors with laws protecting women in the workplace.
...
Cancelled a rule mandating that financial advisers act in the best interests of their clients.
...
Cancelled a phase-out of the use of private prisons.
Reversed restrictions on providing surplus military gear to police departments.
...
Withdrew from the Paris climate agreement.
...
Cut the number of migrants and refugees allowed from seven predominantly Muslim countries.
Repealed a rule allowing transgender individuals to serve in the military.
Ended the Deferred Action for Parents of Americans and Lawful Permanent Residents program.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:42 PM on September 2, 2017 [36 favorites]
Trump is Simon Greedwell
At first I was like, wait, was Simon Greedwell also a real guy? But nope, looks like he’s just an easily-defeated first-level boss from an arcade game from thirty years ago.
That’s some quality obscure-referencing, right there.
posted by box at 2:44 PM on September 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
At first I was like, wait, was Simon Greedwell also a real guy? But nope, looks like he’s just an easily-defeated first-level boss from an arcade game from thirty years ago.
That’s some quality obscure-referencing, right there.
posted by box at 2:44 PM on September 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
If the gloves don't fit...
He's full of shit?
posted by kirkaracha at 2:58 PM on September 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
Trump’s Hamstrung EPA Is AWOL As Toxic Chemicals Flood Houston
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:03 PM on September 2, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:03 PM on September 2, 2017 [12 favorites]
It doesn't sound so much like they're AWOL as they are forced to wait like everyone else. These are career people, right?
posted by bird internet at 3:14 PM on September 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by bird internet at 3:14 PM on September 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
In which Trump attacks the press for...not flying helicopters into heavy winds like the Coast Guard does?
"I hear the Coast Guard saved 11,000 people. Think of it, almost 11,000 people. By going into winds that the media would not go into. They will not go into those winds. Unless it's a really good story, in which case they will."
(For the record, the Post bought a canoe and people are using it to get their stuff out of their homes.)
posted by zachlipton at 3:21 PM on September 2, 2017 [24 favorites]
"I hear the Coast Guard saved 11,000 people. Think of it, almost 11,000 people. By going into winds that the media would not go into. They will not go into those winds. Unless it's a really good story, in which case they will."
(For the record, the Post bought a canoe and people are using it to get their stuff out of their homes.)
posted by zachlipton at 3:21 PM on September 2, 2017 [24 favorites]
At first I was like, wait, was Simon Greedwell also a real guy? But nope, looks like he’s just an easily-defeated first-level boss from an arcade game from thirty years ago.
That’s some quality obscure-referencing, right there.
Not so obscure if you like memes I guess
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:36 PM on September 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
That’s some quality obscure-referencing, right there.
Not so obscure if you like memes I guess
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:36 PM on September 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
Because most local news stations also fly twin engine, long range, extended endurance Jayhawk and EuroDolphin helicopters with midflight refueling capabilities. Obviously.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:38 PM on September 2, 2017 [38 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:38 PM on September 2, 2017 [38 favorites]
Corey Robin:
The big battle throughout the fall will be taxes. The Republicans are trying to decide whether to go for massive tax cuts—particularly for corporations, which are awash in cash, and the rich—or massive tax cuts plus an overhaul of the tax system that will permanently favor the wealthy and the corporations (and probably hurt the middle class). If the Democrats had any sense, they'd take a page from what Bernie did in January. While everyone in the party was either inert or terrified, Bernie launched a series of rallies around the country calling for Medicare for All and the defense of Obamacare. While the meltdown over Obamacare repeal was primarily due to the internal tensions within the GOP, there's no doubt that the public rallying in defense of healthcare played a role. So what should the Dems do now? Call for a massive increase in social spending with tax increases for anyone making over a certain amount (100k? 150k?) Or if they want to play it safe, simply run a campaign saying "No tax cuts for the rich." Lay down some kind of marker that will be seared into public consciousness and create the groundwork for reprising what happened with Obamacare repeal. Whatever you do, don't just sit there, stand there, waiting and watching to see what the GOP comes up with.posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:00 PM on September 2, 2017 [25 favorites]
Gosh and what about those awful war correspondents not sticking their noses into active military operations (unless they're Geraldo broadcasting troop positions) or crime beat reporters not getting in the middle of robberies and hostage situations, geez pick up the slack, media
posted by jason_steakums at 4:04 PM on September 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by jason_steakums at 4:04 PM on September 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
Or "$20 hr min wage. It's a business expense write off!"
posted by tilde at 4:08 PM on September 2, 2017
posted by tilde at 4:08 PM on September 2, 2017
"It looked like the bucket was empty, too, if not all the boxes. And that was a half-ass box-stacking job."
He shoves an empty plastic catlitter bucket into the driver's lap and loads two or three cardboard boxes and a single flat of water bottles into the empty pickup bed, putting things on top of other things despite the fact that the bed of the pickup is empty, and then he says, "'Kay, fellas, you're all set" and thumps the side of the truck and walks away past the stacks and stacks and stacks of other supplies waiting to be loaded into the 95% empty truck bed. He's done TV for the past, what, 20 years, so he understands the concept of "optics." If it's not dementia, then it's on purpose. Either way, bitch gots to go.
posted by Don Pepino at 4:29 PM on September 2, 2017 [20 favorites]
He shoves an empty plastic catlitter bucket into the driver's lap and loads two or three cardboard boxes and a single flat of water bottles into the empty pickup bed, putting things on top of other things despite the fact that the bed of the pickup is empty, and then he says, "'Kay, fellas, you're all set" and thumps the side of the truck and walks away past the stacks and stacks and stacks of other supplies waiting to be loaded into the 95% empty truck bed. He's done TV for the past, what, 20 years, so he understands the concept of "optics." If it's not dementia, then it's on purpose. Either way, bitch gots to go.
posted by Don Pepino at 4:29 PM on September 2, 2017 [20 favorites]
In which Garrett Haake tells us that we're all seeing the 'Grandpa' Trump that was there all along, as demonstrated by DJT's performance today, and Twitter is like lol fuck no
@GarrettHaake
This tweet has elicited responses comparing Trump to Hitler, Stalin and Satan, and several calling for me to be fired. Thanks everyone.
@tonyposnanski
Are you new to Twitter?
I got three death threats because I said Peeps are fucking awful.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:29 PM on September 2, 2017 [39 favorites]
@GarrettHaake
This tweet has elicited responses comparing Trump to Hitler, Stalin and Satan, and several calling for me to be fired. Thanks everyone.
@tonyposnanski
Are you new to Twitter?
I got three death threats because I said Peeps are fucking awful.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:29 PM on September 2, 2017 [39 favorites]
In which Trump attacks the press for...not flying helicopters into heavy winds like the Coast Guard does?
"I hear the Coast Guard saved 11,000 people. Think of it, almost 11,000 people. By going into winds that the media would not go into. They will not go into those winds. Unless it's a really good story, in which case they will."
Trump's draft budget proposes billion dollar cut to Coast Guard
posted by srboisvert at 4:44 PM on September 2, 2017 [35 favorites]
"I hear the Coast Guard saved 11,000 people. Think of it, almost 11,000 people. By going into winds that the media would not go into. They will not go into those winds. Unless it's a really good story, in which case they will."
Trump's draft budget proposes billion dollar cut to Coast Guard
posted by srboisvert at 4:44 PM on September 2, 2017 [35 favorites]
Are you kidding me?
Trump names climate change denier with no science background as new NASA chief.
posted by darkstar at 4:44 PM on September 2, 2017 [29 favorites]
Trump names climate change denier with no science background as new NASA chief.
posted by darkstar at 4:44 PM on September 2, 2017 [29 favorites]
He's done TV for the past, what, 20 years, so he understands the concept of "optics."
He's done "Reality TV" with Mark Burnett telling him what to do and if he does bad, fixing it in Post Production. Not seeing any of the "Apprentice" Producers in his White House told me from Day One it'd be the Fail Administration.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:54 PM on September 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
He's done "Reality TV" with Mark Burnett telling him what to do and if he does bad, fixing it in Post Production. Not seeing any of the "Apprentice" Producers in his White House told me from Day One it'd be the Fail Administration.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:54 PM on September 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
Meet the new assistant secretary of labor for the federal Mine Safety and Health Administration: David G. Zatezalo. Until 2014, he was an executive at Rhino Resources, a company repeatedly cited for mine safety violations, including a worker who died in between the company receiving a pair of "pattern of violations" warning letters from MSHA.
posted by zachlipton at 5:19 PM on September 2, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 5:19 PM on September 2, 2017 [23 favorites]
It looked like the bucket was empty, too, if not all the boxes.
I, too, thought the bucket looked empty because I'm used to getting bird seed and cat litter in those containers, but it could be their standard flood clean-up kit which does not look particularly heavy.
posted by peeedro at 5:25 PM on September 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
I, too, thought the bucket looked empty because I'm used to getting bird seed and cat litter in those containers, but it could be their standard flood clean-up kit which does not look particularly heavy.
posted by peeedro at 5:25 PM on September 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
He's literally looking for the most inept, corrupt people possible, isn't he?
At this point, it's blindingly obvious that the goal is to brazenly undermine the federal government.
posted by darkstar at 5:26 PM on September 2, 2017 [16 favorites]
At this point, it's blindingly obvious that the goal is to brazenly undermine the federal government.
posted by darkstar at 5:26 PM on September 2, 2017 [16 favorites]
it could be their standard flood clean-up kit
Which contains: 20 oz cotton wet mom
o_0
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:30 PM on September 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
Which contains: 20 oz cotton wet mom
o_0
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:30 PM on September 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
Whether intentional or not, he's doing to the entire country what he did to Atlantic City.
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:32 PM on September 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:32 PM on September 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
Trump's draft budget proposes billion dollar cut to Coast Guard
Because the Coast Guard was founded by Alexander Hamilton, and Pence was ambushed and made to feel bad by the cast of the musical. [fake]
posted by thelonius at 5:32 PM on September 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
Because the Coast Guard was founded by Alexander Hamilton, and Pence was ambushed and made to feel bad by the cast of the musical. [fake]
posted by thelonius at 5:32 PM on September 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
Are we sure people aren't paying him for the positions?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:32 PM on September 2, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:32 PM on September 2, 2017 [19 favorites]
At this point, it's blindingly obvious that the goal is to brazenly undermine the federal government.
This has been the explicit goal of the right and the GOP for as long as I can remember.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:32 PM on September 2, 2017 [19 favorites]
This has been the explicit goal of the right and the GOP for as long as I can remember.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:32 PM on September 2, 2017 [19 favorites]
Trump names climate change denier with no science background as new NASA chief.
This is total bull**it
posted by goalyeehah at 5:38 PM on September 2, 2017 [12 favorites]
This is total bull**it
posted by goalyeehah at 5:38 PM on September 2, 2017 [12 favorites]
"I hear the Coast Guard saved 11,000 people. Think of it, almost 11,000 people. By going into winds that the media would not go into. They will not go into those winds. Unless it's a really good story, in which case they will."
Hey. Hey, dipshit.
I'm a former Coastie.
It's not for everyone. Not even close to everyone. And yet lots of people who never served stepped up in this mess to save people, including reporters. You spent this whole mess patting yourself on the back on Twitter when you weren't at a bullshit worthless photo op. And that's after you decided people couldn't volunteer for service based on gender.
Fuck your ableism, fuck your draft-dodging-tough-guy bullshit, fuck your media-bashing, and fuck every other little thing about you, too.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:40 PM on September 2, 2017 [117 favorites]
Hey. Hey, dipshit.
I'm a former Coastie.
It's not for everyone. Not even close to everyone. And yet lots of people who never served stepped up in this mess to save people, including reporters. You spent this whole mess patting yourself on the back on Twitter when you weren't at a bullshit worthless photo op. And that's after you decided people couldn't volunteer for service based on gender.
Fuck your ableism, fuck your draft-dodging-tough-guy bullshit, fuck your media-bashing, and fuck every other little thing about you, too.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:40 PM on September 2, 2017 [117 favorites]
TRUMP’S WHITE IDENTITY POLITICS AND THE CONSERVATIVE “WELFARE” BAIT AND SWITCH (Niskanen Center):
The tension between electoral necessity and ideological motivation leads small-government supply-siders to shamelessly equivocate on the meaning of “welfare.” When speaking to their older, white base, right-wing politicians code “welfare”as government checks for poor brown people, not as the expensive major entitlements, or the tax breaks, that are mainly enjoyed by white Republicans. Of course, public assistance for the less-white poor is relatively trivial stuff, budget-wise. Melissa Kearney, an economist at the University of Maryland, observes that, “Spending on cash and near-cash transfer programs to low-income families comprises less than 5 percent of the federal budget,” as the chart above (from Kearney) makes clear. Which is why, when criticizing “the welfare state” as a source of growth-killing tax larceny, our shady right-wing Mulvaneys quietly smuggle the white welfare-state back in. They have to. That’s where nearly all the “big government” spending is.posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:41 PM on September 2, 2017 [10 favorites]
Corey Robin on that Niskanen Center piece
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:42 PM on September 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:42 PM on September 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
Is that even possible? I mean, I know it is technically possible to remove web browsers completely from your phone, but could Trump do it? Would one of his staff actually do it? Did the Secret Service do it to secure the phone?
Sorry about the delay but I've been 12-36 hours behind on these threads all week!
There's actually a Pentagon-built bespoke Android phone, previously reported to have been issued at least to Pres. Obama (replacing his beloved Blackberry, which had been somewhat locked down itself) and Adm. Mike Rogers, and presumably but not verified to have been issued to Pres. Prumt as of Jan. 20, when his OEM Android phone was allegedly (but maybe not completely) relinquished. Among its reported features are a self-destruct (presumably digital, not hissing smoke MI-style) mechanism, as well as supposedly no texting OR p2p phone call capability. Interestingly the entire thing is a thin client with virtual access to a server somewhere else, itself presumably Orange Book certified, which in theory could permit some functions like a Twitter API to be operational, and certainly a means by which straight-up web browsing could be blocked. It would be difficult to de-browser Android 100% due to the way other apps like to use/embed it, but obviously a virtualized version of Android is a different story. In any case, though there are multiple levels of speculation here, it probably isn't like some half-assed greenhorn staffer had the job of doing the locking down on an existing Drumpf mobile.
posted by dhartung at 6:16 PM on September 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
Sorry about the delay but I've been 12-36 hours behind on these threads all week!
There's actually a Pentagon-built bespoke Android phone, previously reported to have been issued at least to Pres. Obama (replacing his beloved Blackberry, which had been somewhat locked down itself) and Adm. Mike Rogers, and presumably but not verified to have been issued to Pres. Prumt as of Jan. 20, when his OEM Android phone was allegedly (but maybe not completely) relinquished. Among its reported features are a self-destruct (presumably digital, not hissing smoke MI-style) mechanism, as well as supposedly no texting OR p2p phone call capability. Interestingly the entire thing is a thin client with virtual access to a server somewhere else, itself presumably Orange Book certified, which in theory could permit some functions like a Twitter API to be operational, and certainly a means by which straight-up web browsing could be blocked. It would be difficult to de-browser Android 100% due to the way other apps like to use/embed it, but obviously a virtualized version of Android is a different story. In any case, though there are multiple levels of speculation here, it probably isn't like some half-assed greenhorn staffer had the job of doing the locking down on an existing Drumpf mobile.
posted by dhartung at 6:16 PM on September 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
I know discussing Melania's clothing is fraught with tension for all sorts of good reasons, and this is both ridiculously petty and simultaneously insane, but I've got to ask about this one. You all know she wore a FLOTUS hat last trip. Today she wore a TEXAS hat, which a lovely gesture, sure.
Except look at the back of it. FLOTUS. That's presumably a custom hat. Did she actually have a custom "go back to the natural disaster site" hat made just for this trip?
posted by zachlipton at 6:26 PM on September 2, 2017 [17 favorites]
/https%3A%2F%2Fblueprint-api-production.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fuploads%2Fcard%2Fimage%2F577228%2Fe7a5e6c9-0c44-4449-a2e6-f72a521937e1.jpg){kind=link}
Except look at the back of it. FLOTUS. That's presumably a custom hat. Did she actually have a custom "go back to the natural disaster site" hat made just for this trip?
posted by zachlipton at 6:26 PM on September 2, 2017 [17 favorites]
Did she actually have a custom "go back to the natural disaster site" hat made just for this trip?
Are you really asking, or do you just want cake?
cause you can just have cake, it's ok
posted by petebest at 6:51 PM on September 2, 2017 [27 favorites]
Are you really asking, or do you just want cake?
cause you can just have cake, it's ok
posted by petebest at 6:51 PM on September 2, 2017 [27 favorites]
It's more that I've lost all perspective on how vaguely normal people might behave in these situations and was hoping for some reassurance that 2016 me would have been sure that ordering up a custom hat for a natural disaster photo-op is rather far off the charts of normal behavior.
I do want cake.
posted by zachlipton at 6:58 PM on September 2, 2017 [22 favorites]
I do want cake.
posted by zachlipton at 6:58 PM on September 2, 2017 [22 favorites]
"Did she actually have a custom "go back to the natural disaster site" hat made just for this trip?"
Of course. Of course she did. Think of the worst thing a person could do to profit in that situation, then think of something even more awful. That's what the Trumps will do.
posted by Floydd at 6:58 PM on September 2, 2017 [15 favorites]
Of course. Of course she did. Think of the worst thing a person could do to profit in that situation, then think of something even more awful. That's what the Trumps will do.
posted by Floydd at 6:58 PM on September 2, 2017 [15 favorites]
"Trumpwater, only 5$ a bottle! Coming Soon To a Natural Disaster Near You!! Down in the dumps? Drink like the Trumps!!"
posted by Floydd at 7:02 PM on September 2, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Floydd at 7:02 PM on September 2, 2017 [9 favorites]
...2016 me would have been sure that ordering up a custom hat for a natural disaster photo-op is rather far off the charts of normal behavior
Trump and Family would have done it in 1986 if given a photo-op at a natural disaster. (But first wife Ivana would've concealed the shame less well)
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:02 PM on September 2, 2017
Trump and Family would have done it in 1986 if given a photo-op at a natural disaster. (But first wife Ivana would've concealed the shame less well)
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:02 PM on September 2, 2017
There's actually a Pentagon-built bespoke Android phone
I'm not exactly the President of the US, but my GFE iPhone just forces the 'Good' app for anything work-related. I can have a personal twitter account in the Twitter app and use the Safari browser, but I'm sure that could be disabled if they didn't want me to do that. They have disabled the camera, air-drop, and some of the other iOS features.
posted by ctmf at 7:17 PM on September 2, 2017
I'm not exactly the President of the US, but my GFE iPhone just forces the 'Good' app for anything work-related. I can have a personal twitter account in the Twitter app and use the Safari browser, but I'm sure that could be disabled if they didn't want me to do that. They have disabled the camera, air-drop, and some of the other iOS features.
posted by ctmf at 7:17 PM on September 2, 2017
'Good' isn't very good, but iPhone+good is way way better than the previous flip phone+T9 texting.
posted by ctmf at 7:19 PM on September 2, 2017
posted by ctmf at 7:19 PM on September 2, 2017
The hat looks to be custom machine embroidery, easy and quick enough to have made in any shop that does such things.
But no, it is not normal or ok to have that made just for natural disaster photo op, version 2.0. It is the opposite of intelligent optics. It is grotesquerie. It is offensive.
posted by monopas at 7:20 PM on September 2, 2017 [24 favorites]
But no, it is not normal or ok to have that made just for natural disaster photo op, version 2.0. It is the opposite of intelligent optics. It is grotesquerie. It is offensive.
posted by monopas at 7:20 PM on September 2, 2017 [24 favorites]
I flew four hours to be photographed caring and all I got was this lousy hat
posted by petebest at 7:28 PM on September 2, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by petebest at 7:28 PM on September 2, 2017 [11 favorites]
It would be difficult to de-browser Android 100% due to the way other apps like to use/embed it, but obviously a virtualized version of Android is a different story.
How does virtualization help?
posted by Coventry at 7:41 PM on September 2, 2017
How does virtualization help?
posted by Coventry at 7:41 PM on September 2, 2017
You all know she wore a FLOTUS hat last trip. Today she wore a TEXAS hat, which a lovely gesture, sure.
How cynical have I become? When I saw the hat (before learning it had FLOTUS on the back) I did a quick search to see if it was available for sale in trumos name. Because I didn't want to go to any official Trump site it ended up being hard to tell. But of course it was. Actually, the FLOTUS thing really pissed me off since she wants the title but left all those kids, schools, and peasant workers hanging re the WH tours that had to be cancelled and the Easter Egg hunt that was scrambled. Don't want to be FLOTUS? You go girl! Fight the patriarchy! But then you don't get to wear the fucking hat. FLOTUS? No, FLOTYOU.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:45 PM on September 2, 2017 [37 favorites]
How cynical have I become? When I saw the hat (before learning it had FLOTUS on the back) I did a quick search to see if it was available for sale in trumos name. Because I didn't want to go to any official Trump site it ended up being hard to tell. But of course it was. Actually, the FLOTUS thing really pissed me off since she wants the title but left all those kids, schools, and peasant workers hanging re the WH tours that had to be cancelled and the Easter Egg hunt that was scrambled. Don't want to be FLOTUS? You go girl! Fight the patriarchy! But then you don't get to wear the fucking hat. FLOTUS? No, FLOTYOU.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:45 PM on September 2, 2017 [37 favorites]
Did she actually have a custom "go back to the natural disaster site" hat made just for this trip?
My theory is that the hats are like dog tags, necessary if they wander off or get lost.
(Tho I would recommend that she write FLOTUS on her arm.)
posted by octobersurprise at 7:47 PM on September 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
My theory is that the hats are like dog tags, necessary if they wander off or get lost.
(Tho I would recommend that she write FLOTUS on her arm.)
posted by octobersurprise at 7:47 PM on September 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
I begin to think that after another year of this, my go-to coping mechanism is just going to be imagining I am the President of the United States, and Trump is a t.v. show like Veep or House of Cards.
So, you know, if you start reading comments from me about how I'm planning things like nominating Goodwin Liu to the next SCOTUS opening, vastly expanding the funding for the FBI Civil Rights branch in my next budget, or working with Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren to pass a raft of new legislation, including a new Voting Rights Act, universal health care, and free higher education...just, you know, humor me.
Either that, or I'll just be drinking more.
posted by darkstar at 7:50 PM on September 2, 2017 [11 favorites]
So, you know, if you start reading comments from me about how I'm planning things like nominating Goodwin Liu to the next SCOTUS opening, vastly expanding the funding for the FBI Civil Rights branch in my next budget, or working with Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren to pass a raft of new legislation, including a new Voting Rights Act, universal health care, and free higher education...just, you know, humor me.
Either that, or I'll just be drinking more.
posted by darkstar at 7:50 PM on September 2, 2017 [11 favorites]
Honestly, these people evoke levels of out-of-control anger I haven't felt since that year in the early 90s that I was really road rage-y.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:51 PM on September 2, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 7:51 PM on September 2, 2017 [12 favorites]
He's a scumbag. That's the word I'm settling on right now.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:58 PM on September 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:58 PM on September 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
Trump just retweeted this.
That's actually kinda funny. Grim, but funny.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:59 PM on September 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
That's actually kinda funny. Grim, but funny.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:59 PM on September 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
Somebody do one with Putin's face instead.
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:05 PM on September 2, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:05 PM on September 2, 2017 [19 favorites]
monopas: "The hat looks to be custom machine embroidery, easy and quick enough to have made in any shop that does such things.
Yep. It's the kind of thing where you could pick up the phone and order one as you are heading out the door and it would be ready by the time you got to the trophy shop.
But no, it is not normal or ok to have that made just for natural disaster photo op, version 2.0. It is the opposite of intelligent optics. It is grotesquerie. It is offensive."
Devil's advocate: Maybe she has had a hat made for every state so she has a hat ready where ever she might be headed. It would be typical of the Cheeto aesthetic.
posted by Mitheral at 8:12 PM on September 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yep. It's the kind of thing where you could pick up the phone and order one as you are heading out the door and it would be ready by the time you got to the trophy shop.
But no, it is not normal or ok to have that made just for natural disaster photo op, version 2.0. It is the opposite of intelligent optics. It is grotesquerie. It is offensive."
Devil's advocate: Maybe she has had a hat made for every state so she has a hat ready where ever she might be headed. It would be typical of the Cheeto aesthetic.
posted by Mitheral at 8:12 PM on September 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
That hat doesn't even register on my outrage meter. It's like a 0.001 on a scale of 0-100.
posted by Justinian at 8:14 PM on September 2, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 8:14 PM on September 2, 2017 [14 favorites]
Something about this doesn't sit right with me. Probably it's the tone of malignant theocratic despotism. I don't think it's worth worrying about Pence being more Gilead-ey.
@realDonaldTrump
Remember, Sunday is National Prayer Day (by Presidential Proclamation)!
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:15 PM on September 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump
Remember, Sunday is National Prayer Day (by Presidential Proclamation)!
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:15 PM on September 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
Trump just retweeted this.
He retweeted it a couple minutes after he retweeted one about him comforting Harvey victims.
posted by chris24 at 8:15 PM on September 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
He retweeted it a couple minutes after he retweeted one about him comforting Harvey victims.
posted by chris24 at 8:15 PM on September 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
I have zero doubt that Pence is in this up to his smarmy weasel eyeballs. I just hope they have the evidence to prove it.
If Mueller rolls up Ryan too, how does that succession order work? Does it go straight to Hatch, or does the House get another chance at electing a speaker?
posted by corb at 8:35 PM on September 2, 2017
If Mueller rolls up Ryan too, how does that succession order work? Does it go straight to Hatch, or does the House get another chance at electing a speaker?
posted by corb at 8:35 PM on September 2, 2017
I was thinking, all my life, I've heard politicians attacked as being demagogues, and it's usually rhetorical, like framing something they all do, in a misleading context, for a negative ad. So, when the real thing arrived, it seemed unreal, like if you were interviewing people for a job and one of the candidates was Santa Claus. Do you know why the border wall is such a big deal for Trump? Because it was the biggest applause line at his early rallies. That's it, national policy is now to be set according to the preferences for red meat of the most extremist voters on the right, because pandering to them, for the time being, is a win for Trump and his ego.
posted by thelonius at 8:36 PM on September 2, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 8:36 PM on September 2, 2017 [17 favorites]
Either that, or I'll just be drinking more.
Give up on the 25th Amendment and give in to the 21st!
posted by orange ball at 8:43 PM on September 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
Give up on the 25th Amendment and give in to the 21st!
posted by orange ball at 8:43 PM on September 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
I, for one, am confident in the Preidesnt's ability to respond to what looks like a North Korean nuclear test.
posted by zachlipton at 8:57 PM on September 2, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 8:57 PM on September 2, 2017 [17 favorites]
Fucking fuck fuck fuckity fuck fuck fuck.
posted by medusa at 9:01 PM on September 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by medusa at 9:01 PM on September 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
Sounds to me like they may have solved the fizzle problem they were having and successfully detonated a true hydrogen bomb.
posted by Justinian at 9:02 PM on September 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 9:02 PM on September 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yeah, seems likely to be a few 100s of kilotons instead of 10s. Bad, bad, bad.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:05 PM on September 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:05 PM on September 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
North Korea earthquake appears bigger than those caused by previous nuclear tests.
USGS: M 5.2 Explosion - 23km ENE of Sungjibaegam, North Korea
BBC: North Korea: Tremor detected in sign of possible nuclear test
posted by guiseroom at 9:05 PM on September 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
USGS: M 5.2 Explosion - 23km ENE of Sungjibaegam, North Korea
BBC: North Korea: Tremor detected in sign of possible nuclear test
posted by guiseroom at 9:05 PM on September 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
Welp, I'm going out for a bit. Hopefully the world doesn't explode in a nuclear conflagration before I get back. But I know we'll meet again some sunny day...
posted by Justinian at 9:14 PM on September 2, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 9:14 PM on September 2, 2017 [10 favorites]
Just a few hours ago North Korea's news agency reported that they developed an advanced hydrogen bomb that possesses "great destructive power".
posted by peeedro at 9:17 PM on September 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by peeedro at 9:17 PM on September 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
USGS: M 5.2 Explosion - 23km ENE of Sungjibaegam, North Korea
Note that they currently have it at a 6.3, not a 5.2, which is why there is concern about the size of the device.
Ok, now I really gotta go and stop hitting F5.
posted by Justinian at 9:17 PM on September 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
Note that they currently have it at a 6.3, not a 5.2, which is why there is concern about the size of the device.
Ok, now I really gotta go and stop hitting F5.
posted by Justinian at 9:17 PM on September 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
Lalex, what's our terror scale? 11? Does it go to 11?
posted by greermahoney at 9:26 PM on September 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by greermahoney at 9:26 PM on September 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
ANTI-DOXING GUIDE FOR ACTIVISTS FACING ATTACKS FROM THE ALT-RIGHT (Equality Labs, Medium)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 9:27 PM on September 2, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Joseph Gurl at 9:27 PM on September 2, 2017 [9 favorites]
6.3 magnitude earthquake implies a yield of a megaton, give or take.
posted by the duck by the oboe at 9:28 PM on September 2, 2017
posted by the duck by the oboe at 9:28 PM on September 2, 2017
Yeah, that's a biggun
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:30 PM on September 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:30 PM on September 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
Nope, still need help reacting to this. My adrenal gland is just, like, all burned out, I've used up all my terror-rage and am left with don't-give-a-fuck rage, so where should I calibrate my response here.
posted by yasaman at 9:32 PM on September 2, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by yasaman at 9:32 PM on September 2, 2017 [9 favorites]
That's just because it is the middle of the night. CNN defaults to CNN International when something happens at night while they defrost Wolf Blitzer. CNN International has like, real journalists.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:37 PM on September 2, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:37 PM on September 2, 2017 [34 favorites]
Move near Seattle, they said. The economy's great, you'll have a few laughs...
posted by corb at 9:40 PM on September 2, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by corb at 9:40 PM on September 2, 2017 [23 favorites]
Yonhap is now reporting a second earthquake, this one magnitude 4.6...
posted by the duck by the oboe at 9:41 PM on September 2, 2017
posted by the duck by the oboe at 9:41 PM on September 2, 2017
CNN has broken into whatever overnight programming they had so I guess I'm at least on 6.
Well, MSNBC has broken into the weekly Lockup-athon, and they never do that. Late Sat/Early Sunday live news is never a comforting thing.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:47 PM on September 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
Well, MSNBC has broken into the weekly Lockup-athon, and they never do that. Late Sat/Early Sunday live news is never a comforting thing.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:47 PM on September 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
New 4.6 quake detected in North Korea due to 'cave in': China
posted by guiseroom at 9:48 PM on September 2, 2017
posted by guiseroom at 9:48 PM on September 2, 2017
I wonder if the president of the united States is awake.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:50 PM on September 2, 2017
posted by Room 641-A at 9:50 PM on September 2, 2017
Just flipped around the networks here in metro Detroit, nothing about the North Korea nuke test on over-the-air channels.
posted by Gadgetenvy at 9:52 PM on September 2, 2017
posted by Gadgetenvy at 9:52 PM on September 2, 2017
I just started praying for Fox to cover this calmly so that when He wakes up he doesn't overreact. (Though I imagine they wake him up for stuff like this anyway, right?) God help us.
posted by mynameisluka at 9:55 PM on September 2, 2017
posted by mynameisluka at 9:55 PM on September 2, 2017
it has been _0_ days since the latest nuclear disaster
posted by Soliloquy at 10:00 PM on September 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Soliloquy at 10:00 PM on September 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
I swear, if Trump ever puts his name on doomsday survivalist gear, he really will become a billionaire.
Every time he tweets, his sales would skyrocket.
posted by darkstar at 10:10 PM on September 2, 2017
Every time he tweets, his sales would skyrocket.
posted by darkstar at 10:10 PM on September 2, 2017
BBC World News' chyron still identifies it as a "suspected" nuclear test, but they're speaking as though there isn't anything inconsistent with that being the case.
posted by XMLicious at 10:11 PM on September 2, 2017
posted by XMLicious at 10:11 PM on September 2, 2017
Range 45-70 kilotons So definitely not an H-bomb, according to this chart, in case anyone had (a lack of) doubts about North Korean propaganda. That would make it North Korea's biggest test, but 1/10th the size of even the smallest fusion bombs.
posted by msalt at 10:13 PM on September 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by msalt at 10:13 PM on September 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
Japan is saying it was a nuclear test.
posted by johnpowell at 10:22 PM on September 2, 2017
posted by johnpowell at 10:22 PM on September 2, 2017
corb: I was just commenting tonight about how screwed we are if Mt Rainier blows (it was quite gorgeous at dusk tonight). And then come home and a bit later this.
posted by R343L at 10:29 PM on September 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by R343L at 10:29 PM on September 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
That feeling when you see that he's tweeted and expect him to be announcing the nuclear end of civilization but instead he's just misspelling "heroes" because apparently nobody's told him yet.
@realDonaldTrump
So much SPIRIT in LA! Thank you to all of our HEREOS who saved many lives.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:30 PM on September 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump
So much SPIRIT in LA! Thank you to all of our HEREOS who saved many lives.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:30 PM on September 2, 2017 [8 favorites]
Well, guys, it's 2:36pm in Seoul. Hope you're all doing well. If I'm not here tomorrow, well, it's been a good run & catch ya on the flip side.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 10:37 PM on September 2, 2017 [33 favorites]
posted by Joseph Gurl at 10:37 PM on September 2, 2017 [33 favorites]
Hereos are, like, the worst flavor of Oreos. Even more terrible than candy corn, if you can believe it.
posted by charmedimsure at 10:37 PM on September 2, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by charmedimsure at 10:37 PM on September 2, 2017 [24 favorites]
(Just a note: we're at 1967 comments, currently. Per cortex in the recent MeTa thread, thread lengths of about 2000 seem to be an optimum threshold for starting a new one. In case anyone wants to consider that.)
posted by darkstar at 10:38 PM on September 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by darkstar at 10:38 PM on September 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
>
That chart lists W76 warheads, state of the art U.S. armaments at the height of the Cold War and still in service as of 2017 according to Wikipedia "currently the most numerous weapon in the US nuclear arsenal", at 100 kt.
The U.S. missiles that deliver them appear to carry 8-12 at a time in a MIRV / multiple independently targetable reentry vehicle configuration.
posted by XMLicious at 10:40 PM on September 2, 2017
Range 45-70 kilotons
So definitely not an H-bomb, according to this chart, in case anyone had (a lack of) doubts about North Korean propaganda. That would make it North Korea's biggest test, but 1/10th the size of even the smallest fusion bombs.
That chart lists W76 warheads, state of the art U.S. armaments at the height of the Cold War and still in service as of 2017 according to Wikipedia "currently the most numerous weapon in the US nuclear arsenal", at 100 kt.
The U.S. missiles that deliver them appear to carry 8-12 at a time in a MIRV / multiple independently targetable reentry vehicle configuration.
posted by XMLicious at 10:40 PM on September 2, 2017
With NK testing another nuke the House will never consider impeachment. 25th is too fuzzy on what goes on.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 10:43 PM on September 2, 2017
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 10:43 PM on September 2, 2017
Welp, Andrea Mitchell was live.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:46 PM on September 2, 2017
posted by Room 641-A at 10:46 PM on September 2, 2017
With NK testing another nuke the House will never consider impeachment. 25th is too fuzzy on what goes on.
I'm more inclined to think the opposite. The more serious shit gets with NK, the more likely even Republicans are going to want a sane hand at the wheel. I don't see this moving the dial very far on either impeachment or the 25th, but I sure don't see it moving the dial backward.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:48 PM on September 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm more inclined to think the opposite. The more serious shit gets with NK, the more likely even Republicans are going to want a sane hand at the wheel. I don't see this moving the dial very far on either impeachment or the 25th, but I sure don't see it moving the dial backward.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:48 PM on September 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
I do recall hearing recently, on a ***RUMOR*** basis, that the nuclear football has been taken away from him.
Even if this is a well-placed rumor, or perhaps even more so because of it, we should be pretty disturbed that anyone with domain knowledge of national security procedure is ready to believe a rumor like this. Pretty sure someone pointed out a thread or two back that this basically constitutes a coup d'etat.
My hunch is that if there's any truth to it there are simply a more complicated protocol for handling the football commands as given. It's not a big red button despite pop culture depictions. It's more a matter of selecting from strategic "response" options -- portrayed as akin to a Denny's menu -- and then using codewords from the briefcase and a laminated code card held by the President (the "biscuit" -- and they are occasionally misplaced, such as during the assassination attempt on Pres. Reagan) and then an execution process. According to SecDef Schlesinger he instituted a complication with the execution process during some bad times at the end of Nixon's term, and that's probably more likely to describe what is happening here.
How does virtualization help?
It can mean a swathe of things (for instance, I used to help administer corporate Citrix virtualization systems -- but that was mainly about migrating invisibly to newer hardware, supporting more clients and throughput, that sort of thing). In this case it would allow you to run something that to the thin client looks like Android but really isn't (or perhaps the client is just handling display in which the virtualization is merely pretending to be Android but really isn't). You aren't bound by the constraints of Android on phone hardware, you can fool it to send problematic hardware requests to null, you could even use your secure server to strongly filter or pre-cache a secured version of the web for limited browsing, and because you control the browser you are that much closer to guaranteeing no malware susceptibility (it's still a risk, but at least the risk is only to the server and not to the phone in the user's hands). Really, there's no limit to how far you could go depending on how the thin client operates and how much you want to enable in terms of communications capability.
There's a limited amount of information out there, like DOD spec sheets, for the Boeing Black which is the candidate most are assuming for what 45 has been issued. Notably, I would say that the existence of such a product is something that goes in tandem with the overall maturity and stability of the current smartphone market.
posted by dhartung at 10:48 PM on September 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
Even if this is a well-placed rumor, or perhaps even more so because of it, we should be pretty disturbed that anyone with domain knowledge of national security procedure is ready to believe a rumor like this. Pretty sure someone pointed out a thread or two back that this basically constitutes a coup d'etat.
My hunch is that if there's any truth to it there are simply a more complicated protocol for handling the football commands as given. It's not a big red button despite pop culture depictions. It's more a matter of selecting from strategic "response" options -- portrayed as akin to a Denny's menu -- and then using codewords from the briefcase and a laminated code card held by the President (the "biscuit" -- and they are occasionally misplaced, such as during the assassination attempt on Pres. Reagan) and then an execution process. According to SecDef Schlesinger he instituted a complication with the execution process during some bad times at the end of Nixon's term, and that's probably more likely to describe what is happening here.
How does virtualization help?
It can mean a swathe of things (for instance, I used to help administer corporate Citrix virtualization systems -- but that was mainly about migrating invisibly to newer hardware, supporting more clients and throughput, that sort of thing). In this case it would allow you to run something that to the thin client looks like Android but really isn't (or perhaps the client is just handling display in which the virtualization is merely pretending to be Android but really isn't). You aren't bound by the constraints of Android on phone hardware, you can fool it to send problematic hardware requests to null, you could even use your secure server to strongly filter or pre-cache a secured version of the web for limited browsing, and because you control the browser you are that much closer to guaranteeing no malware susceptibility (it's still a risk, but at least the risk is only to the server and not to the phone in the user's hands). Really, there's no limit to how far you could go depending on how the thin client operates and how much you want to enable in terms of communications capability.
There's a limited amount of information out there, like DOD spec sheets, for the Boeing Black which is the candidate most are assuming for what 45 has been issued. Notably, I would say that the existence of such a product is something that goes in tandem with the overall maturity and stability of the current smartphone market.
posted by dhartung at 10:48 PM on September 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
My understanding is that the US nuclear chain of command is not actually set up to follow an order like "bomb North Korea". Instead, the President would have to select an existing plan from the set of contingencies documented in the "football" that accompanies him everywhere. He would then issue the order, be challenged, and have to respond with the correct code word from the "biscuit" that he (supposedly) carries at all times. There are likely more steps than these, but I think this process is beyond Trump unless someone leads him through it.
Consider: we know The President isn't a reader. He doesn't like to do it, and his eyesight is apparently poor. The "football" is bulky and looks heavy, which implies that there are many detailed contingencies to choose from. So he'd have to choose the correct binder from the ones presented to him, search through an index, follow the script it specifies, and then follow a challenge-response sequence. This isn't the sort of thing he could do quickly, and even assuming his aides let him get that far, it gives time for someone to call Pence and start the 25th Amendment process.
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:29 PM on September 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
Consider: we know The President isn't a reader. He doesn't like to do it, and his eyesight is apparently poor. The "football" is bulky and looks heavy, which implies that there are many detailed contingencies to choose from. So he'd have to choose the correct binder from the ones presented to him, search through an index, follow the script it specifies, and then follow a challenge-response sequence. This isn't the sort of thing he could do quickly, and even assuming his aides let him get that far, it gives time for someone to call Pence and start the 25th Amendment process.
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:29 PM on September 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
You know, I had a kind of hypothetical about Trump getting permanent sight damage from looking directly at the sun during the eclipse. He would completely ignore / deny any obvious degradation of his sight, in order to seem macho and on top of things, and thus not accept any accommodations made to get around this. And this would finally be what got Pence to pull the ol' 25th Amendment lever.
posted by dhens at 11:40 PM on September 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by dhens at 11:40 PM on September 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
If the hail mary to avoid a nuclear exchange (how ever lopsided that may be) is Trump being impeached (starting from essentially zero) between the time he starts selecting targets and the time he verifies the go command we're in a lot of trouble. I mean best case I can't see the initial strike taking more than an hour and I doubt Pence could even get a quorum (in both houses no less) in that amount of time let alone a successful impeach vote.
Also the Cheeto has all sorts of people around him who could manage the target selection; I can't see that being something he has to do on his own. In fact with a competent President we'd want him consulting with his staff on a course of action.
posted by Mitheral at 11:40 PM on September 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
Also the Cheeto has all sorts of people around him who could manage the target selection; I can't see that being something he has to do on his own. In fact with a competent President we'd want him consulting with his staff on a course of action.
posted by Mitheral at 11:40 PM on September 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
I don't see why the Republicans, Pence included, would want to impeach Trump over a nuclear attack on North Korea. It seems like the kind of glorious bullying Republicans love. Heck, I'd expect every second Democrat to be orgasmic about it.
posted by Coventry at 11:47 PM on September 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Coventry at 11:47 PM on September 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
Even if this is a well-placed rumor, or perhaps even more so because of it, we should be pretty disturbed that anyone with domain knowledge of national security procedure is ready to believe a rumor like this. Pretty sure someone pointed out a thread or two back that this basically constitutes a coup d'etat.
It's not a coup d'etat when you know the President is compromised by Russia. This is a counter-intelligence op.
You don't give Double Agents for Russia the REAL biscuit because if/when the fake codes turn up elsewhere, you know Trump gave them up.
posted by mikelieman at 11:54 PM on September 2, 2017 [10 favorites]
It's not a coup d'etat when you know the President is compromised by Russia. This is a counter-intelligence op.
You don't give Double Agents for Russia the REAL biscuit because if/when the fake codes turn up elsewhere, you know Trump gave them up.
posted by mikelieman at 11:54 PM on September 2, 2017 [10 favorites]
Moon's party is also the portion of the ROK electorate that was most strongly opposed to the KOR-US FTA in the first place.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 12:03 AM on September 3, 2017
posted by Joseph Gurl at 12:03 AM on September 3, 2017
One question I always have is...how much materiel do they actually have? Obviously enough to make even one more bomb is plenty...
posted by maxwelton at 12:03 AM on September 3, 2017
posted by maxwelton at 12:03 AM on September 3, 2017
wasn't the biggest beef about the KORUS FTA about American beef?
That was the biggest source of public outcry, but that outcry was a proxy for perceived asymmetry in negotiations. Rice and cars were also important issues.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 12:14 AM on September 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
That was the biggest source of public outcry, but that outcry was a proxy for perceived asymmetry in negotiations. Rice and cars were also important issues.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 12:14 AM on September 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
North Korea is claiming they can make these weapons at scale.
Assuming this is due to help from Putin (in retaliation for sanctions)...I mean. Fuck. No. No words for it all, really. A Bond villain and a demented narcissist jointly hold the power to unleash Armageddon. This is somehow worse than Dr. Strangelove.
posted by schadenfrau at 1:46 AM on September 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
Assuming this is due to help from Putin (in retaliation for sanctions)...I mean. Fuck. No. No words for it all, really. A Bond villain and a demented narcissist jointly hold the power to unleash Armageddon. This is somehow worse than Dr. Strangelove.
posted by schadenfrau at 1:46 AM on September 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
Did I forget to mention today that Trump literally signed the wall of the convention center in Houston? Like you'd do at a dive bar or something? Yeah. He did.
posted by zachlipton at 2:06 AM on September 3, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 2:06 AM on September 3, 2017 [22 favorites]
Globe & Mail "Though we cannot verify the claim, (North Korea) wants us to believe that it can launch a thermonuclear strike now, if it is attacked," said Adam Mount, a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress.
Smoke and mirrors. NK ticking boxes on the "don't fuck with us" bingo card.
There is zero chance of NK detonating a nuclear device on the continental US via ICBM.
The technology NK has right now precludes missile-based nukes. Major challenge is the re-entry shield, not to mention the long road to miniaturization (requiring different and much more highly controlled materials and methods).
The very best they can do now, however, could possibly be packed into something the size of a freight container, and delivered to some commercial dock in SF.
posted by porpoise at 2:23 AM on September 3, 2017 [10 favorites]
Smoke and mirrors. NK ticking boxes on the "don't fuck with us" bingo card.
There is zero chance of NK detonating a nuclear device on the continental US via ICBM.
The technology NK has right now precludes missile-based nukes. Major challenge is the re-entry shield, not to mention the long road to miniaturization (requiring different and much more highly controlled materials and methods).
The very best they can do now, however, could possibly be packed into something the size of a freight container, and delivered to some commercial dock in SF.
posted by porpoise at 2:23 AM on September 3, 2017 [10 favorites]
That chart lists W76 warheads, state of the art U.S. armaments at the height of the Cold War and still in service as of 2017 according to Wikipedia "currently the most numerous weapon in the US nuclear arsenal", at 100 kt.
While it's obviously possible to build a no-shit H-bomb -- a staged Teller-Ulam style thermonuclear weapon -- with a 100kt yield, it doesn't really fit with NK's goals. NK's immediate goal was to demonstrate their ability to build a proper H-bomb. If you want to do that, picking a yield that's more consistent with a boosted fission weapon than a thermonuclear weapon would be weird and stupid. If you're trying to demonstrate your ability to build a thermonuclear weapon, choose a yield that's inconsistent with a boosted fission weapon.
Anyway, for sure I am just an armchair observer too, but this looks more like either a boosted weapon or like they were trying to detonate a Teller-Ulam design but couldn't get the secondary to ignite.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:33 AM on September 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
While it's obviously possible to build a no-shit H-bomb -- a staged Teller-Ulam style thermonuclear weapon -- with a 100kt yield, it doesn't really fit with NK's goals. NK's immediate goal was to demonstrate their ability to build a proper H-bomb. If you want to do that, picking a yield that's more consistent with a boosted fission weapon than a thermonuclear weapon would be weird and stupid. If you're trying to demonstrate your ability to build a thermonuclear weapon, choose a yield that's inconsistent with a boosted fission weapon.
Anyway, for sure I am just an armchair observer too, but this looks more like either a boosted weapon or like they were trying to detonate a Teller-Ulam design but couldn't get the secondary to ignite.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:33 AM on September 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
Thiessen says the real enemy is Antifa, because some Antifa are communists, and Stalin was a communist, and Stalin killed millions of people. This is a nod to what is called the "double genocide" theory, which is promoted by Eastern European nations that want to justify their collaboration with the Nazis.
There is also the somewhat harsh historical reality that communists and Stalin were what defeated the nazis the first time around.
posted by srboisvert at 5:49 AM on September 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
There is also the somewhat harsh historical reality that communists and Stalin were what defeated the nazis the first time around.
posted by srboisvert at 5:49 AM on September 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
> Lalex, what's our terror scale? 11? Does it go to 11?
@stevenjgibbons: "oh fuck"
[Bio: Seismologist monitoring underground nuclear testing. Englishman. Norgesvenn. ]
@willripleyCNN: "Norway seismologists: North Korea H-bomb test had explosive yield of 120 kilotons. Hiroshima was 15 kilotons. North Korea statement below:"
posted by Buntix at 5:55 AM on September 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
@stevenjgibbons: "oh fuck"
[Bio: Seismologist monitoring underground nuclear testing. Englishman. Norgesvenn. ]
@willripleyCNN: "Norway seismologists: North Korea H-bomb test had explosive yield of 120 kilotons. Hiroshima was 15 kilotons. North Korea statement below:"
posted by Buntix at 5:55 AM on September 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
"Sir, North Korea has detonated a H-Bomb, we should convene the NSC and reassure our allies."
"Nah, time to tweet, say I told you so, and attack our ally. How do you spell appeasement?"
@realDonaldTrump
North Korea has conducted a major Nuclear Test. Their words and actions continue to be very hostile and dangerous to the United States.....
- ..North Korea is a rogue nation which has become a great threat and embarrassment to China, which is trying to help but with little success.
- South Korea is finding, as I have told them, that their talk of appeasement with North Korea will not work, they only understand one thing!
posted by chris24 at 5:55 AM on September 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
"Nah, time to tweet, say I told you so, and attack our ally. How do you spell appeasement?"
@realDonaldTrump
North Korea has conducted a major Nuclear Test. Their words and actions continue to be very hostile and dangerous to the United States.....
- ..North Korea is a rogue nation which has become a great threat and embarrassment to China, which is trying to help but with little success.
- South Korea is finding, as I have told them, that their talk of appeasement with North Korea will not work, they only understand one thing!
posted by chris24 at 5:55 AM on September 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
Unrelated: Lawrence O'Donnell made a brilliant observation Friday night that has stuck with me ever since: whenever Trump reads from a TelePrompTer, it becomes apparent that he is learning things he is reading out loud for the very first time.
Yep, and his tell is when he ad-libs "so true" and/or "many people don't know". So in other words, constantly.
posted by chris24 at 6:07 AM on September 3, 2017 [35 favorites]
Yep, and his tell is when he ad-libs "so true" and/or "many people don't know". So in other words, constantly.
posted by chris24 at 6:07 AM on September 3, 2017 [35 favorites]
Appeasement is an embarrassing, non-macho thing which has had several major failures in history, but sometimes it works, sometimes it's the better option. It's a tragedy that it's scoffed at until near non-existence. Even Reagan told the joke, just pay the two dollars.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:07 AM on September 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:07 AM on September 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
The best '80s John Cusack movie is Better Off Dead. Many people don't know that.
posted by box at 6:14 AM on September 3, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by box at 6:14 AM on September 3, 2017 [28 favorites]
So true.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:16 AM on September 3, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:16 AM on September 3, 2017 [10 favorites]
Who knew that going that way, really fast, and turning if anything gets in the way was so complicated?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:18 AM on September 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:18 AM on September 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
Unrelated: Lawrence O'Donnell made a brilliant observation Friday night that has stuck with me ever since: whenever Trump reads from a TelePrompTer, it becomes apparent that he is learning things he is reading out loud for the very first time.
Also, he's probably seeing the text for the very first time when he reads it off the PrompTer. I can't imagine he reviews or edits things ahead of time, although maybe had has heard someone read a few of the interesting bits at him.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:33 AM on September 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Also, he's probably seeing the text for the very first time when he reads it off the PrompTer. I can't imagine he reviews or edits things ahead of time, although maybe had has heard someone read a few of the interesting bits at him.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:33 AM on September 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
South Korea is finding, as I have told them, that their talk of appeasement with North Korea will not work, they only understand one thing!
Good thing your recent Chief Strategist didn't call up a reporter two weeks ago and say:
posted by chris24 at 6:44 AM on September 3, 2017 [33 favorites]
Good thing your recent Chief Strategist didn't call up a reporter two weeks ago and say:
"There’s no military solution [to North Korea’s nuclear threats], forget it. Until somebody solves the part of the equation that shows me that ten million people in Seoul don’t die in the first 30 minutes from conventional weapons, I don’t know what you’re talking about, there’s no military solution here, they got us."Otherwise, NK might think you're just talking out your ass and that could lead to some very bad things.
posted by chris24 at 6:44 AM on September 3, 2017 [33 favorites]
Gorkie says relax.
Callum Borchers, WaPo: ‘Relax. It's okay’: How Breitbart is trying to reassure Trump supporters
Sebastian Gorka, a former deputy assistant to the president who followed Bannon back to Breitbart, tried to calm Trump's base in a Breitbart radio appearance Thursday.
"Really important for me to message one thing to the listeners right now," Gorka said. "Relax. It's okay. Why? I've never met anybody — and I mean this, okay? — I've never met anybody who has the accuracy of instinct that Donald J. Trump has. He's a preternatural — he's a supernatural instinctual actor. You take him a palette of decisions … he'll look at the options, he'll choose one of them and, you know what, 98 percent of the time, it's the right option."
That's okay, things are going to be okay.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:45 AM on September 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
Callum Borchers, WaPo: ‘Relax. It's okay’: How Breitbart is trying to reassure Trump supporters
Sebastian Gorka, a former deputy assistant to the president who followed Bannon back to Breitbart, tried to calm Trump's base in a Breitbart radio appearance Thursday.
"Really important for me to message one thing to the listeners right now," Gorka said. "Relax. It's okay. Why? I've never met anybody — and I mean this, okay? — I've never met anybody who has the accuracy of instinct that Donald J. Trump has. He's a preternatural — he's a supernatural instinctual actor. You take him a palette of decisions … he'll look at the options, he'll choose one of them and, you know what, 98 percent of the time, it's the right option."
That's okay, things are going to be okay.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:45 AM on September 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
Unstable Sociopath with Nukes / Rubio 2016!
posted by petebest at 6:46 AM on September 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by petebest at 6:46 AM on September 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
“Rust looked from the Fox News livestream to the slowly blooming corpse-flower livestream, and from corpse-flower to Fox News, and from Fox News to corpse-flower again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:09 AM on September 3, 2017 [38 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:09 AM on September 3, 2017 [38 favorites]
70 kt would be exactly consistent with a boosted fission device. Once you've solved implosion, which was probably the problem that took three years between their second and third tests, boosting is the obvious next step. Russia got to 400kt with boosted weapons before we set off Mike and showed them something grander was possible. We didn't explore boosting that far because Ed Teller didn't think boosted bombs were powerful enough (!). And boosted bombs are still big and heavy, not missile fodder.
And there is something off about that "nuclear device" in the NK PR photo. It clearly has a spherical bulge at each end, and that doesn't make sense; it's not the profile of a Teller-Ulam device. In fact, it doesn't really make any kind of sense at all. A Teller-Ulam device uses the radiation from the spherical fission primary to compress and ignite the secondary. The secondary is generally cylindrical, although we use more complex shapes in modern highly miniaturized devices (which have never been tested except in simulation). The thing is the radiation from the primary needs a clear path to the plastic foam which surrounds the secondary. The small waist on that NK device doesn't make any sense. It's almost as if they heard an H-bomb has two stages, so they glued two mockup A-bombs together.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:25 AM on September 3, 2017 [23 favorites]
And there is something off about that "nuclear device" in the NK PR photo. It clearly has a spherical bulge at each end, and that doesn't make sense; it's not the profile of a Teller-Ulam device. In fact, it doesn't really make any kind of sense at all. A Teller-Ulam device uses the radiation from the spherical fission primary to compress and ignite the secondary. The secondary is generally cylindrical, although we use more complex shapes in modern highly miniaturized devices (which have never been tested except in simulation). The thing is the radiation from the primary needs a clear path to the plastic foam which surrounds the secondary. The small waist on that NK device doesn't make any sense. It's almost as if they heard an H-bomb has two stages, so they glued two mockup A-bombs together.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:25 AM on September 3, 2017 [23 favorites]
Today I decided to reread Tom Junod's canonical profile of Fred Rogers for the umpteenth time to distract myself from the current state of affairs, but when I got to the story about the boy with cerebral palsy I burst into tears because I am so fucking angry that Fred Rogers is dead and Donald fucking Trump isn't.
And I know Mr. Rogers wouldn't approve of that feeling, but he would understand it, because he was nothing if not sympathetic.
So do yourself a favor and read it yourself. You might end up feeling a little better about a species that can produce someone like Mr. Rogers. I did.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:33 AM on September 3, 2017 [36 favorites]
And I know Mr. Rogers wouldn't approve of that feeling, but he would understand it, because he was nothing if not sympathetic.
So do yourself a favor and read it yourself. You might end up feeling a little better about a species that can produce someone like Mr. Rogers. I did.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:33 AM on September 3, 2017 [36 favorites]
I guess the only positive thing about Hurricane Irma threatening the East Coast is that it might distract this moron long enough that he forgets he wanted to threaten NK with nukes again.
posted by lydhre at 7:36 AM on September 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by lydhre at 7:36 AM on September 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
New thread please gasp
posted by agregoli at 7:42 AM on September 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by agregoli at 7:42 AM on September 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
Never forget.
Bill Clinton negotiated an agreement with North Korea much like Obama's Iran agreement. When Bill Clinton left office there were international observers on the ground, nuclear material was under lock and seal, and there was 24/7 video surveillance of reactors to prevent cheating.
George Bush threw it all away with his neocon opposite-of-everything-Clinton policy. Within months of Bush's macho sabre rattling Axis of Evil speech, North Korea had thrown out the international observers, unlocked the vaults and was processing material for their first bomb. They saw what happened to Iraq, another member of the "Axis of Evil", that didn't have a bomb.
We now have another idiot opposite-of-everything-Obama leader sitting in the White House. Elections have consequences.
posted by JackFlash at 8:12 AM on September 3, 2017 [139 favorites]
Bill Clinton negotiated an agreement with North Korea much like Obama's Iran agreement. When Bill Clinton left office there were international observers on the ground, nuclear material was under lock and seal, and there was 24/7 video surveillance of reactors to prevent cheating.
George Bush threw it all away with his neocon opposite-of-everything-Clinton policy. Within months of Bush's macho sabre rattling Axis of Evil speech, North Korea had thrown out the international observers, unlocked the vaults and was processing material for their first bomb. They saw what happened to Iraq, another member of the "Axis of Evil", that didn't have a bomb.
We now have another idiot opposite-of-everything-Obama leader sitting in the White House. Elections have consequences.
posted by JackFlash at 8:12 AM on September 3, 2017 [139 favorites]
Well, there's only one thing to do then. Hook Dick Cheney back up and let's invade Iraq. Because . . uh, the . . same reason(s?) as last time. Ummmm . . they cheated at Olympic ice skating or something - someone go down to the Dubya "library" and ask what it was. There's probably a pamphlet.
posted by petebest at 8:56 AM on September 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by petebest at 8:56 AM on September 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
@gelliottmorris (Elliot Morris, DecisionDeskHQ)
Let’s talk more about what happens if we’re wrong about the House generic ballot, according to my 2018 model. [THREAD]
- In short if we underestimate Dems by a normal error, they could win in a landslide. If GOP overperforms they do just 10 seats better. (1/11)
- There are 64 GOP seats forecast to win by less than 10% but only 16 D. Ds have have an inherent edge to pickup seats, even by random chance. (2/11) [CHART]
- Using error in the generic ballot polls alone, we can expect polls to be off by 3% or more roughly 35% of the time. What happens… (3/11) [CHART]
- … if House polls miss? Dems gain 3%: win 25 extra seats. GOP gains 3%: win 10 extra. See the hints of asymmetry w/ possible outcomes? (4/11)
- There is even bigger asymmetry later on. Dems gain 4%: win 41 extra. GOP gains 4%: win 14. Dems gain 5%: win 61(!). GOP gain 5%: win 15 (5/11)
- There’s about a 10% chance we’ll be off by 5% or more, given the past error in generic ballot polls. Whatever error happens, however… (6/11)
- Whether they gain 61 extra seats or 25 (both enough for majority) from poll error, Dems have huge outside advantage in the House map. (7/11)
- Note that this potential for GOP ‘armageddon’ is entirely the result of gerrymandering/sorting, which currently gives them the House… (8/11)
- … even though Dems are winning the popular vote (via generic ballot) by 8%. (9/11)
- The lead GOP has manufactured for itself is a very, very unstable one that gives huge potential for a GOP ‘armageddon’ next year. (10/11)
- And the chance that could happen is a certainly possible 5%. Want to read more? Start here: http://www.thecrosstab.com/2018-midterms-forecast/. Blog post soon (11/11)
posted by chris24 at 8:57 AM on September 3, 2017 [30 favorites]
Let’s talk more about what happens if we’re wrong about the House generic ballot, according to my 2018 model. [THREAD]
- In short if we underestimate Dems by a normal error, they could win in a landslide. If GOP overperforms they do just 10 seats better. (1/11)
- There are 64 GOP seats forecast to win by less than 10% but only 16 D. Ds have have an inherent edge to pickup seats, even by random chance. (2/11) [CHART]
- Using error in the generic ballot polls alone, we can expect polls to be off by 3% or more roughly 35% of the time. What happens… (3/11) [CHART]
- … if House polls miss? Dems gain 3%: win 25 extra seats. GOP gains 3%: win 10 extra. See the hints of asymmetry w/ possible outcomes? (4/11)
- There is even bigger asymmetry later on. Dems gain 4%: win 41 extra. GOP gains 4%: win 14. Dems gain 5%: win 61(!). GOP gain 5%: win 15 (5/11)
- There’s about a 10% chance we’ll be off by 5% or more, given the past error in generic ballot polls. Whatever error happens, however… (6/11)
- Whether they gain 61 extra seats or 25 (both enough for majority) from poll error, Dems have huge outside advantage in the House map. (7/11)
- Note that this potential for GOP ‘armageddon’ is entirely the result of gerrymandering/sorting, which currently gives them the House… (8/11)
- … even though Dems are winning the popular vote (via generic ballot) by 8%. (9/11)
- The lead GOP has manufactured for itself is a very, very unstable one that gives huge potential for a GOP ‘armageddon’ next year. (10/11)
- And the chance that could happen is a certainly possible 5%. Want to read more? Start here: http://www.thecrosstab.com/2018-midterms-forecast/. Blog post soon (11/11)
posted by chris24 at 8:57 AM on September 3, 2017 [30 favorites]
Too soon.
posted by petebest at 9:00 AM on September 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by petebest at 9:00 AM on September 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
I will be meeting General Kelly, General Mattis and other military leaders at the White House to discuss North Korea. Thank you.
posted by guiseroom at 9:10 AM on September 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by guiseroom at 9:10 AM on September 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Is he aware that Kelly is not actually active-duty military, nor currently in a position of military leadership?
(OK, dumb question. In fact, pretty much any question beginning with "Is he aware" is probably dumb)
posted by jackbishop at 9:22 AM on September 3, 2017 [13 favorites]
(OK, dumb question. In fact, pretty much any question beginning with "Is he aware" is probably dumb)
posted by jackbishop at 9:22 AM on September 3, 2017 [13 favorites]
"…they will tell me the same thing as last time but this time i am experiencing an even deeper level of narcissistic injury which i expect will be big league enough to overcome any objections."[fake]
posted by murphy slaw at 9:23 AM on September 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 9:23 AM on September 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
Let's just do the whole negotiation via Twitter. And stopping all trade with China is very realistic.
@realDonaldTrump
The United States is considering, in addition to other options, stopping all trade with any country doing business with North Korea.
posted by chris24 at 9:25 AM on September 3, 2017 [11 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump
The United States is considering, in addition to other options, stopping all trade with any country doing business with North Korea.
posted by chris24 at 9:25 AM on September 3, 2017 [11 favorites]
NEW THREAD for the North Korean bomb test.
(I didn't set it up as a an exclusively USPolitics or POTUS45 thread, as the issue has international ramifications, but I did tag it with Potus45, as the Donald's response is going to be significant. Mods can amend if needed, of course.)
posted by darkstar at 9:29 AM on September 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
(I didn't set it up as a an exclusively USPolitics or POTUS45 thread, as the issue has international ramifications, but I did tag it with Potus45, as the Donald's response is going to be significant. Mods can amend if needed, of course.)
posted by darkstar at 9:29 AM on September 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
Bringer Tom: And there is something off about that "nuclear device" in the NK PR photo. It clearly has a spherical bulge at each end, and that doesn't make sense; it's not the profile of a Teller-Ulam device.
Information on the W88 warhead (designed in the 1980s and deployed on Trident II) suggests that it has a so-called 'peanut' shaped casing, containing a prolate spheroid fission primary and, unusually, a spherical fusion secondary.
That being said, there is nothing to say that the photo doesn't show Kim Jong-un inspecting a mockup intended to look like publicly-available impressions of the W88 design. Initial estimates of the yield of this test seem to be in the range 50-125 kT, which as others have noted is a bit on the low side for an H-bomb.
I suspect one of the following:
1. This is a boosted fission bomb rather than a true two-stage H-bomb.
2. This was a 'fizzle', i.e. an intended H-bomb test but the secondary failed to undergo full fusion. This has happened a number of times in nuclear tests, either due to novel designs not panning out or lack of detailed knowledge of weapon design.
3. This was a deliberate test at reduced yield, perhaps because North Korea might have difficulty in conducting a full-yield underground test. (The largest-ever underground test was the US Cannikin test in 1971, 5 MT, but that required very extensive preparation.)
My worry: if North Korea really has got a workable H-bomb, Kim Jong-un might just be desperate enough to demonstrate it at full yield that he orders an atmospheric nuclear test - something nobody has done since China conducted the last such test in 1980. Even more alarming would be the prospect that he might direct a combined missile/warhead test, something that has only ever been done twice (the USA with test of Polaris in 1962, and China with a test of the DF-2 in 1966.) That would be so destabilising that even the most restrained US administration might feel constrained to take drastic action in response.
posted by Major Clanger at 9:45 AM on September 3, 2017 [19 favorites]
Information on the W88 warhead (designed in the 1980s and deployed on Trident II) suggests that it has a so-called 'peanut' shaped casing, containing a prolate spheroid fission primary and, unusually, a spherical fusion secondary.
That being said, there is nothing to say that the photo doesn't show Kim Jong-un inspecting a mockup intended to look like publicly-available impressions of the W88 design. Initial estimates of the yield of this test seem to be in the range 50-125 kT, which as others have noted is a bit on the low side for an H-bomb.
I suspect one of the following:
1. This is a boosted fission bomb rather than a true two-stage H-bomb.
2. This was a 'fizzle', i.e. an intended H-bomb test but the secondary failed to undergo full fusion. This has happened a number of times in nuclear tests, either due to novel designs not panning out or lack of detailed knowledge of weapon design.
3. This was a deliberate test at reduced yield, perhaps because North Korea might have difficulty in conducting a full-yield underground test. (The largest-ever underground test was the US Cannikin test in 1971, 5 MT, but that required very extensive preparation.)
My worry: if North Korea really has got a workable H-bomb, Kim Jong-un might just be desperate enough to demonstrate it at full yield that he orders an atmospheric nuclear test - something nobody has done since China conducted the last such test in 1980. Even more alarming would be the prospect that he might direct a combined missile/warhead test, something that has only ever been done twice (the USA with test of Polaris in 1962, and China with a test of the DF-2 in 1966.) That would be so destabilising that even the most restrained US administration might feel constrained to take drastic action in response.
posted by Major Clanger at 9:45 AM on September 3, 2017 [19 favorites]
Any word on what the second seismic event was? I've seen speculation that it was the site collapsing afterwards. The magnitude seems too large for that though.
If so, though, i'd think there would be an accidental atmospheric radioactivity release that would tell us a lot about that test.
posted by ctmf at 9:51 AM on September 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
If so, though, i'd think there would be an accidental atmospheric radioactivity release that would tell us a lot about that test.
posted by ctmf at 9:51 AM on September 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Kim Jong-un might just be desperate enough to demonstrate it at full yield that he orders an atmospheric nuclear test
But where? He doesn't exactly have vast areas like US, USSR, China, nor the expeditionary ability to do it in the ocean.
posted by ctmf at 9:55 AM on September 3, 2017
But where? He doesn't exactly have vast areas like US, USSR, China, nor the expeditionary ability to do it in the ocean.
posted by ctmf at 9:55 AM on September 3, 2017
Any word on what the second seismic event was? I've seen speculation that it was the site collapsing afterwards. The magnitude seems too large for that though.
Everything I've seen seems to think it was the vaporized cavern created by the test collapsing.
posted by chris24 at 10:07 AM on September 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Everything I've seen seems to think it was the vaporized cavern created by the test collapsing.
posted by chris24 at 10:07 AM on September 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
I will be meeting General Kelly, General Mattis and other military leaders at the White House to discuss North Korea. Thank you.
Thank you?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:26 AM on September 3, 2017 [20 favorites]
Thank you?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:26 AM on September 3, 2017 [20 favorites]
trump lives his life the way a 10-year-old thinks a Big Man does, that extends all the way to a 10-year-old's idea of how Big Important People talk (when he actually tries to restrain his id, which, granted, is rare)
posted by entropicamericana at 10:30 AM on September 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 10:30 AM on September 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
also, re: nk:
i just realized how This Is Fine Dog's final panel looks less like a housefire and more like a nuclear apocalypse
posted by entropicamericana at 10:32 AM on September 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
i just realized how This Is Fine Dog's final panel looks less like a housefire and more like a nuclear apocalypse
posted by entropicamericana at 10:32 AM on September 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
Good lord these photos of Mike Pence mean-mugging at North Korea across the DMZ look even more fucking stupid today
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:34 AM on September 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:34 AM on September 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
whenever Trump reads from a TelePrompTer, it becomes apparent that he is learning things he is reading out loud for the very first time
The Speech
Obama composed the first draft in longhand on a yellow legal pad, mostly in Springfield, where the state senate was in overtime over a budget impasse.How Obama Writes His Speeches
...
Obama scribbled down ideas on scraps of paper whenever inspiration struck. He also read transcripts and watched reels of film highlighting past keynote speeches that Gibbs, his communications director, had put together for him. David Katz, a former Obama campaign aide, says Obama spent a couple of weeks working late at night a few hours at a time. “We’d finish [the senate day] at 9 or 10 p.m., and he’d write till 1 or 2 in the morning,” recalls Katz. Axelrod says Obama “does a lot of composing in his head, so by the time he sits down to write, it’s a matter of transcribing his thoughts to the written page.”
"When you're working with Senator Obama the main player on a speech is Senator Obama," Axelrod said. "He is the best speechwriter in the group and he knows what he wants to say and he generally says it better than anybody else would."The Man Behind the Words: Speechwriting for President Obama
Keenan said that Obama is his own chief speechwriter. The two often go back and forth with around seven drafts until the President is happy with the speech. If there were enough hours in the day, Keenan said Obama wouldn’t have speechwriters and would do the writing all on his own, but as President of the United States, it just isn’t possible. Though, with all of the speeches Keenan writes, he gets his cues from Obama. If it is something the President intensely cares about, they will set aside 30 minutes at the front end of writing to take time to hear what is on his mind. To this day, Keenan maintains that the best speech Obama has ever given was his 2004 Democratic National Convention speech, one that Obama wrote all on his own and that set quite a daunting precedent for all of his future speechwriters.posted by kirkaracha at 10:37 AM on September 3, 2017 [28 favorites]
Good lord these photos of Mike Pence mean-mugging at North Korea across the DMZ look even more fucking stupid today
What are those patches on his jacket? One looks like the UN logo. Did he earn them?
posted by kirkaracha at 10:40 AM on September 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Stop business with China?
Is...is this the most absurd thing he has ever said? Like not the most vile, most ignorant, most damaging. But has he ever said anything more absurd?
We have so many businesses so deeply tied or invested in China I'm surprised there isn't a law to allow continued trade with them even in the event of war.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:55 AM on September 3, 2017 [14 favorites]
Is...is this the most absurd thing he has ever said? Like not the most vile, most ignorant, most damaging. But has he ever said anything more absurd?
We have so many businesses so deeply tied or invested in China I'm surprised there isn't a law to allow continued trade with them even in the event of war.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:55 AM on September 3, 2017 [14 favorites]
I'm sure he believes that threatening to stop doing trade with China would obviously prompt them to stop doing trade with NK. Because that's how stupid he is.
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:58 AM on September 3, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:58 AM on September 3, 2017 [11 favorites]
Today I learned that Trumponomics is an anagram of pro-communist.
Yes, I can haz gallows humour.
posted by runcifex at 10:59 AM on September 3, 2017 [31 favorites]
Yes, I can haz gallows humour.
posted by runcifex at 10:59 AM on September 3, 2017 [31 favorites]
*wails plaintively* But if we stop trading with China and South Korea gets blown up, where will all my gadgets (that I envy) come from?
posted by Gadgetenvy at 11:04 AM on September 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Gadgetenvy at 11:04 AM on September 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
Well, there's only one thing to do then. Hook Dick Cheney back up and let's invade Iraq.
Don't worry, where Eric Princes tread, Dicks follow.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:18 AM on September 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Don't worry, where Eric Princes tread, Dicks follow.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:18 AM on September 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
What are those patches on his jacket?
It's the command of the South Korean side of the DMZ. It's made up of the United Nations Command, ROK/US Combined Forces Command, and the US Forces Korea. It's not something he'd have to earn; he's the VP so he wears it to show support for the people stationed there.
posted by peeedro at 11:19 AM on September 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
It's the command of the South Korean side of the DMZ. It's made up of the United Nations Command, ROK/US Combined Forces Command, and the US Forces Korea. It's not something he'd have to earn; he's the VP so he wears it to show support for the people stationed there.
posted by peeedro at 11:19 AM on September 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
A total US trade embargo with China would be a wonder to behold. How many US bonds does China hold? How much GDP is based around Chinese imports and exports?
Let's add in the embargo with all the other countries that trade with China. Which would be, let's count, oh, all the countries.
Yes, this may indeed be the stupidest thing he has ever said. Quite the high bar. Well done, 45.
As someone said on the BBC today - it doesn't matter that much, because nobody's listening to him any more.
(Someone else said in the same news programme, referring back to the Cuban missile crisis, 'I wish he was a little more like JFK', to which Constant Companion commented - what, dead and rotting in Arlington?)
#MAGA!
posted by Devonian at 11:58 AM on September 3, 2017 [19 favorites]
Let's add in the embargo with all the other countries that trade with China. Which would be, let's count, oh, all the countries.
Yes, this may indeed be the stupidest thing he has ever said. Quite the high bar. Well done, 45.
As someone said on the BBC today - it doesn't matter that much, because nobody's listening to him any more.
(Someone else said in the same news programme, referring back to the Cuban missile crisis, 'I wish he was a little more like JFK', to which Constant Companion commented - what, dead and rotting in Arlington?)
#MAGA!
posted by Devonian at 11:58 AM on September 3, 2017 [19 favorites]
China? Mexico? Sooooo... a pretty good chunk of the US' entire GDP.
Yeah that won't happen.
posted by Justinian at 12:15 PM on September 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yeah that won't happen.
posted by Justinian at 12:15 PM on September 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
"The nations are:
China - Trump makes products there
India - Trump makes products there
Philippines
Taiwan - Trump makes products there
France
Mozambique
Russia
Brazil
Burkina Faso
Mexico - Trump makes products there
Germany - Trump makes products there
Turkey - Trump makes products there
Saudi Arabia
Egypt
Chile"
---
I'd guess China and North Korea are taking this threat as seriously as we are.
posted by chris24 at 12:18 PM on September 3, 2017 [36 favorites]
China - Trump makes products there
India - Trump makes products there
Philippines
Taiwan - Trump makes products there
France
Mozambique
Russia
Brazil
Burkina Faso
Mexico - Trump makes products there
Germany - Trump makes products there
Turkey - Trump makes products there
Saudi Arabia
Egypt
Chile"
---
I'd guess China and North Korea are taking this threat as seriously as we are.
posted by chris24 at 12:18 PM on September 3, 2017 [36 favorites]
Today I learned that Trumponomics is an anagram of pro-communist.
this seems like as good a time as ever to say that i believe that napster was part of a socialist long-game plot to influence an entire generation and lead us all to a glorious era of fully automated luxury gay space communism
posted by entropicamericana at 12:24 PM on September 3, 2017 [21 favorites]
this seems like as good a time as ever to say that i believe that napster was part of a socialist long-game plot to influence an entire generation and lead us all to a glorious era of fully automated luxury gay space communism
posted by entropicamericana at 12:24 PM on September 3, 2017 [21 favorites]
This idea doesn't seem all that stupid. All these countries will have to decide: Do they want to trade with North Korea, or do they want to trade with the US? Most of them will choose the US.
Then North Korea will threaten to wipe South Korea off the map, and the US will have to back down or strike first. In the end, all those other nations don't really matter. North Korea's artillery and nukes do.
posted by clawsoon at 12:26 PM on September 3, 2017
Then North Korea will threaten to wipe South Korea off the map, and the US will have to back down or strike first. In the end, all those other nations don't really matter. North Korea's artillery and nukes do.
posted by clawsoon at 12:26 PM on September 3, 2017
General "Buck" Turgidson: Mr. President, we are rapidly approaching a moment of truth both for ourselves as human beings and for the life of our nation. Now, truth is not always a pleasant thing. But it is necessary now to make a choice, to choose between two admittedly regrettable, but nevertheless *distinguishable*, postwar environments: one where you got twenty million people killed, and the other where you got a hundred and fifty million people killed.
President Merkin Muffley: You're talking about mass murder, General, not war!
General "Buck" Turgidson: Mr. President, I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed. But I do say no more than ten to twenty million killed, tops. Uh, depending on the breaks.clawsoon --
You don't think that cutting a trillion dollars a year hole in our economy isn't stupid?
Even ignoring assembled items, are there any supply chains that wouldn't be completely disrupted by ending trade with China?
It's essentially an act of was against ourselves.
It's an idiotic proposal even if its a deliberate application of the Madman theory.
posted by jclarkin at 12:43 PM on September 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
You don't think that cutting a trillion dollars a year hole in our economy isn't stupid?
Even ignoring assembled items, are there any supply chains that wouldn't be completely disrupted by ending trade with China?
It's essentially an act of was against ourselves.
It's an idiotic proposal even if its a deliberate application of the Madman theory.
posted by jclarkin at 12:43 PM on September 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
It'd also be a trillion dollar hole in the Chinese economy. Mutually Assured Economic Destruction.
posted by clawsoon at 12:55 PM on September 3, 2017
posted by clawsoon at 12:55 PM on September 3, 2017
If you think Trump's smart enough to not push the Mutually Assured Destruction button just because it's economic instead of nuclear, I have a bridge to sell you.
posted by Archelaus at 12:58 PM on September 3, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Archelaus at 12:58 PM on September 3, 2017 [9 favorites]
It'd also be a trillion dollar hole in the Chinese economy. Mutually Assured Economic Destruction.
That's why it's great to have a couple of trillion in reserves and a government that understands counter-cyclical spending. China have everything they need to weather a trade war.
posted by Talez at 1:00 PM on September 3, 2017 [9 favorites]
That's why it's great to have a couple of trillion in reserves and a government that understands counter-cyclical spending. China have everything they need to weather a trade war.
posted by Talez at 1:00 PM on September 3, 2017 [9 favorites]
It'd also be a trillion dollar hole in the Chinese economy. Mutually Assured Economic Destruction.
So China has to determine if they think the risk that Trump wrecks his own finances (probably the only predictable measure of what Trump might do) is higher than the danger posed by a US ally or nuclear wasteland and/or war zone with tons of refugee on their SE border. I'd bet they worry more about the latter.
posted by chris24 at 1:03 PM on September 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
So China has to determine if they think the risk that Trump wrecks his own finances (probably the only predictable measure of what Trump might do) is higher than the danger posed by a US ally or nuclear wasteland and/or war zone with tons of refugee on their SE border. I'd bet they worry more about the latter.
posted by chris24 at 1:03 PM on September 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Here's the EPA's official response to stories that it's nowhere to be found in the wake of Harvey:
EPA Response To The AP's Misleading Story
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:04 PM on September 3, 2017 [38 favorites]
EPA Response To The AP's Misleading Story
Yesterday, the Associated Press’ Michael Biesecker wrote an incredibly misleading story about toxic land sites that are under water.It gets better:
Despite reporting from the comfort of Washington, Biesecker had the audacity to imply that agencies aren’t being responsive to the devastating effects of Hurricane Harvey. Not only is this inaccurate, but it creates panic and politicizes the hard work of first responders who are actually in the affected area.
If you’re reporting on this misleading story then below is a statement from the EPA.Is the entire administration PR staff composed of middle-schoolers?
“Once again, in an attempt to mislead Americans, the Associated Press is cherry-picking facts, as EPA is monitoring Superfund sites around Houston and we have a team of experts on the ground working with our state and local counterparts responding to Hurricane Harvey. Anything to the contrary is yellow journalism.” - EPA Associate Administrator, Liz Bowman
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:04 PM on September 3, 2017 [38 favorites]
Is the entire administration PR staff composed of middle-schoolers?
Liz Bowman was formerly the spokesman for American Chemistry Council, which is part of ALEC's extended lobbying universe. Every government agency is run by Koch/ALEC agents now, and all of them have adopted Trumpism as their default PR tone. So, yes.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:12 PM on September 3, 2017 [41 favorites]
Liz Bowman was formerly the spokesman for American Chemistry Council, which is part of ALEC's extended lobbying universe. Every government agency is run by Koch/ALEC agents now, and all of them have adopted Trumpism as their default PR tone. So, yes.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:12 PM on September 3, 2017 [41 favorites]
stratcom via number stations just went live
note: usually these messages are of the "syn/ack" kind, not 2:24m, which says more than resource allocation.
posted by xcasex at 1:20 PM on September 3, 2017 [9 favorites]
note: usually these messages are of the "syn/ack" kind, not 2:24m, which says more than resource allocation.
posted by xcasex at 1:20 PM on September 3, 2017 [9 favorites]
No way suspect the situation with the EPA and toxic waste in Texas is vastly worse than previously reported.
posted by Artw at 1:21 PM on September 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Artw at 1:21 PM on September 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
this was published just about the time the stratcom went out.
posted by xcasex at 1:24 PM on September 3, 2017
posted by xcasex at 1:24 PM on September 3, 2017
stratcom via number stations just went live
How is it public knowledge that it's stratcom? Isn't that a huge security hole?
posted by Coventry at 1:25 PM on September 3, 2017
How is it public knowledge that it's stratcom? Isn't that a huge security hole?
posted by Coventry at 1:25 PM on September 3, 2017
Coventry, because geeks and the specific radio frequency :) but even more so, everything is cipher. so without the otp, its gibberish. what's uncommon here is the length its not normal.
and mattis follows up here
posted by xcasex at 1:30 PM on September 3, 2017
and mattis follows up here
posted by xcasex at 1:30 PM on September 3, 2017
because geeks and the specific radio frequency
Do you know where I can read about how that was inferred?
posted by Coventry at 1:32 PM on September 3, 2017
Do you know where I can read about how that was inferred?
posted by Coventry at 1:32 PM on September 3, 2017
It's a numbers station - the whole concept is built around it being public knowledge and yet not a security hole.
posted by Dr Dracator at 1:33 PM on September 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Dr Dracator at 1:33 PM on September 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
This is a good story from Neil Irwin in the Times/Upshot on what has happened to the economy: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider the Janitors at Two Top Companies, Then and Now. It's a stupidly contrived example (the 1980s janitor at Kodak became an executive, which is fantastic, but not exactly representative), but there's still a lot in there about advancement potential, benefits, and contracted labor.
I also appreciate Margaret Sullivan's take on Here’s the best thing the media can do when reporting on ‘antifa’, which points out that journalists need to "challenge politically motivated efforts to create a false equivalency between antifa and the rising tide of white supremacy" and provide real explanations, the good and the bad, of the movement instead of falling for the "alt-left" false equivalency trap. If only her own paper would follow her advice.
Is the entire administration PR staff composed of middle-schoolers?
Pretty much. Despite the "reporting from the comfort of Washington" crack, the core of the AP's reporting was that they actually visited several Superfund sites that the EPA said they couldn't get to yet:
posted by zachlipton at 1:33 PM on September 3, 2017 [56 favorites]
I also appreciate Margaret Sullivan's take on Here’s the best thing the media can do when reporting on ‘antifa’, which points out that journalists need to "challenge politically motivated efforts to create a false equivalency between antifa and the rising tide of white supremacy" and provide real explanations, the good and the bad, of the movement instead of falling for the "alt-left" false equivalency trap. If only her own paper would follow her advice.
Is the entire administration PR staff composed of middle-schoolers?
Pretty much. Despite the "reporting from the comfort of Washington" crack, the core of the AP's reporting was that they actually visited several Superfund sites that the EPA said they couldn't get to yet:
On Saturday, hours after the AP published its first report, the EPA said it had reviewed aerial imagery confirming that 13 of the 41 Superfund sites in Texas were flooded by Harvey and were “experiencing possible damage” due to the storm.Journalists grabbed a damn boat and huffed it to go check on the toxic waste, which is more than the government did, yet the EPA is calling them lazy?
The statement confirmed the AP’s reporting that the EPA had not yet been able to physically visit the Houston-area sites, saying the sites had “not been accessible by response personnel.” EPA staff had checked on two Superfund sites in Corpus Christi on Thursday and found no significant damage.
AP journalists used a boat to document the condition of one flooded Houston-area Superfund site, but accessed others with a vehicle or on foot. The EPA did not respond to questions about why its personnel had not yet been able to do so.
posted by zachlipton at 1:33 PM on September 3, 2017 [56 favorites]
Do you know where I can read about how that was inferred?
look at the root of the site the audio file is on, or wikipedia on the subject of "number stations". the whole point is it being in the open.
posted by xcasex at 1:37 PM on September 3, 2017
look at the root of the site the audio file is on, or wikipedia on the subject of "number stations". the whole point is it being in the open.
posted by xcasex at 1:37 PM on September 3, 2017
Journalists grabbed a damn boat to go check on the toxic waste, which is more than the government did, yet the EPA is calling them lazy?
Example #794 of Trump's Mirror. Whatever he/they accuse others of doing, he/they are DEFINITELY doing. "No puppet! You're the puppet!"
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:38 PM on September 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Example #794 of Trump's Mirror. Whatever he/they accuse others of doing, he/they are DEFINITELY doing. "No puppet! You're the puppet!"
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:38 PM on September 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think this is the station in question: http://www.numbers-stations.com/military/usa/hfgcs/
posted by stonepharisee at 1:38 PM on September 3, 2017
posted by stonepharisee at 1:38 PM on September 3, 2017
the whole concept is built around it being public knowledge and yet not a security hole
That the numbers are being spoken over that channel is public, yes, but that the source is stratcom? It's definitely a hole if your adversary can tell when you're transmitting high-value messages, even if they can't tell what you're saying. The US used to take advantage of the fact that the Vietnamese would switch ciphers for very sensitive communications, even though they couldn't break either cipher. It often signaled the beginning of an attack.
posted by Coventry at 1:39 PM on September 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
That the numbers are being spoken over that channel is public, yes, but that the source is stratcom? It's definitely a hole if your adversary can tell when you're transmitting high-value messages, even if they can't tell what you're saying. The US used to take advantage of the fact that the Vietnamese would switch ciphers for very sensitive communications, even though they couldn't break either cipher. It often signaled the beginning of an attack.
posted by Coventry at 1:39 PM on September 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
It often signaled the beginning of an attack.
Yes, this. this is why its worrysome.
posted by xcasex at 1:43 PM on September 3, 2017
Yes, this. this is why its worrysome.
posted by xcasex at 1:43 PM on September 3, 2017
it is time for metafilter's users to crack each other's heads open and feast on the goo inside
posted by entropicamericana at 1:54 PM on September 3, 2017 [45 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 1:54 PM on September 3, 2017 [45 favorites]
Dibs on lalex's brain goo!
posted by guiseroom at 1:56 PM on September 3, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by guiseroom at 1:56 PM on September 3, 2017 [10 favorites]
I'm confused, can someone just tell me how worried to be?
atm, just a slight raised brow of worry.
posted by xcasex at 1:56 PM on September 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
atm, just a slight raised brow of worry.
posted by xcasex at 1:56 PM on September 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Dibs on lalex's brain goo!
Clearly guiseroom is an anagram of "u goo miser."
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:58 PM on September 3, 2017 [16 favorites]
Clearly guiseroom is an anagram of "u goo miser."
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:58 PM on September 3, 2017 [16 favorites]
*taps naked grey matter slyly*
They can't crack your skull open if you're already literally the exposed exterior of a human brain.
posted by cortex at 2:00 PM on September 3, 2017 [54 favorites]
They can't crack your skull open if you're already literally the exposed exterior of a human brain.
posted by cortex at 2:00 PM on September 3, 2017 [54 favorites]
just tell me how worried to be
I'm skeptical that it means anything other than that the US military wants people to think something significant is happening.
But you probably should have been somewhat worried to begin with.
posted by Coventry at 2:06 PM on September 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm skeptical that it means anything other than that the US military wants people to think something significant is happening.
But you probably should have been somewhat worried to begin with.
posted by Coventry at 2:06 PM on September 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
There is also the somewhat harsh historical reality that communists and Stalin were what defeated the nazis the first time around.
Please don't give failed Nazi collaborator Stalin the credit that should be given to millions of underequipped and malnourished soldiers from the former USSR that were treated like so much cannon fodder.
posted by Behemoth at 2:20 PM on September 3, 2017 [21 favorites]
Please don't give failed Nazi collaborator Stalin the credit that should be given to millions of underequipped and malnourished soldiers from the former USSR that were treated like so much cannon fodder.
posted by Behemoth at 2:20 PM on September 3, 2017 [21 favorites]
With brutal Sept. to-do list, GOP already clashing over Harvey relief, debt limit
Mnuchin’s revelation Sunday on Fox News that Trump hopes to include disaster aid in debt-ceiling legislation provoked conservative lawmakers who have pushed for spending cuts in exchange for their support for raising the debt limit. These lawmakers were already signaling plans for a rebellion over the entire September agenda if leaders don’t agree to major cuts and changes to expensive federal programs such as Medicaid.
Republicans are already balking at attaching the debt ceiling to Harvey aid. Hell, the Freedom Caucus may not even approve Harvey aid, period. At least they're consistent, I guess. September is going to be a catastrofuck.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:20 PM on September 3, 2017 [16 favorites]
Mnuchin’s revelation Sunday on Fox News that Trump hopes to include disaster aid in debt-ceiling legislation provoked conservative lawmakers who have pushed for spending cuts in exchange for their support for raising the debt limit. These lawmakers were already signaling plans for a rebellion over the entire September agenda if leaders don’t agree to major cuts and changes to expensive federal programs such as Medicaid.
Republicans are already balking at attaching the debt ceiling to Harvey aid. Hell, the Freedom Caucus may not even approve Harvey aid, period. At least they're consistent, I guess. September is going to be a catastrofuck.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:20 PM on September 3, 2017 [16 favorites]
Jesus anybody else replaying that scene from The Day After when the main dude and his wife are looking at the escalating tensions on the TV and they're all, "well, looks terrifying, but hey, we survived all those other times"
posted by angrycat at 2:27 PM on September 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 2:27 PM on September 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
Jesus anybody else replaying that scene
been doing that since 20th of jan.
posted by xcasex at 2:42 PM on September 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
been doing that since 20th of jan.
posted by xcasex at 2:42 PM on September 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
*taps naked grey matter slyly*
Oooh, mandalas!
posted by infinitewindow at 2:45 PM on September 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Oooh, mandalas!
posted by infinitewindow at 2:45 PM on September 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
I never assumed that MeFi's Own cortex's grey matter was actually grey. I assumed more of a MeFi Blue.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:49 PM on September 3, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:49 PM on September 3, 2017 [12 favorites]
I've got more comments in MetaTalk than the rest of the subsites combined; it only stands to reason.
posted by cortex at 2:54 PM on September 3, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by cortex at 2:54 PM on September 3, 2017 [27 favorites]
Then my matter must be blue... I've already told my cardiologist that my blue blood is not a symptom of Royalty.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:58 PM on September 3, 2017
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:58 PM on September 3, 2017
Jesus anybody else replaying that scene from The Day After when the main dude and his wife are looking at the escalating tensions on the TV and they're all, "well, looks terrifying, but hey, we survived all those other times"
I've been picturing Trump riding a bomb, waving his maga hat and James Earl Jones just says, "This is CNN."
posted by Room 641-A at 3:02 PM on September 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
I've been picturing Trump riding a bomb, waving his maga hat and James Earl Jones just says, "This is CNN."
posted by Room 641-A at 3:02 PM on September 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
No, Mr. President, don't press that button or you will end the world.
Trump: whatever.
But you own buildings on the planet.
Trump backs away.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 3:15 PM on September 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
Trump: whatever.
But you own buildings on the planet.
Trump backs away.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 3:15 PM on September 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
Josh Marshall/TPM: He Can’t Even Fake It
... Because many sociopaths are actually quite adept at demonstrations of empathy. They don’t feel it. But they can mimic the behavior. That’s what gets me. Trump can’t even pretend. Even your garden variety jerk politician can put on a show of hugs and supportive words. Trump can’t.posted by ZeusHumms at 3:23 PM on September 3, 2017 [59 favorites]
...
When it comes to acting human or compassionate it’s like the part of his brain governing that species of behavior has been removed. It’s like watching a person who has profound social awkwardness in a meet and greet situation at a cocktail party. It’s painful. But again, with Trump it’s not social awkwardness. It’s a basic, seemingly fundamental inability not only to experience but even to fake the experience of empathy or human concern. That additional part is what is remarkable to me.
Have Trump's views on defaulting on the national debt publicly evolved since last year?
posted by Coventry at 3:27 PM on September 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Coventry at 3:27 PM on September 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
That additional part is what is remarkable to me.
And that part is what his most fervent supporters envy the most, deep in their dark, cold hearts. They lie that they consider him sincere when secretly, they WISH they could get away with such extreme, obvious insincerity.
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:30 PM on September 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
And that part is what his most fervent supporters envy the most, deep in their dark, cold hearts. They lie that they consider him sincere when secretly, they WISH they could get away with such extreme, obvious insincerity.
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:30 PM on September 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
No, Mr. President, don't press that button or you will end the world.
Trump: whatever.
IMHO this works better as
Trump: I am Trump?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:36 PM on September 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
Trump: whatever.
IMHO this works better as
Trump: I am Trump?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:36 PM on September 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
The only thing greater than the existential horror I feel at the possibility that Trump might destroy the world is the profound embarrassment that I feel for humans as a species when I think of everyone who voted for him.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:51 PM on September 3, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:51 PM on September 3, 2017 [13 favorites]
that scene from The Day After
Yup, it's on YouTube if you ... want ... to watch it.
cortex's grey matter
It may not be blue, but it is fractal. Cortices, all the way down.
posted by dhartung at 3:57 PM on September 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yup, it's on YouTube if you ... want ... to watch it.
cortex's grey matter
It may not be blue, but it is fractal. Cortices, all the way down.
posted by dhartung at 3:57 PM on September 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
I guess this is the start of "Great Filter" theme week
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:59 PM on September 3, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:59 PM on September 3, 2017 [14 favorites]
IT didn't scare me as a kid, what with my dad being a clown and sometimes giant spider, but The Day After messed and kept me up for days, as did the nuclear blast in Matinee.
What a time to be afraid.
posted by guiseroom at 4:08 PM on September 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
What a time to be afraid.
posted by guiseroom at 4:08 PM on September 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
the profound embarrassment that I feel for humans as a species when I think of everyone who voted for him.
You're a better man than I am. It's smoldering rage and resentment for me. The least qualified presidential nominee in history beating the most qualified? Yeah, great way to go out, human race.
posted by Rykey at 4:13 PM on September 3, 2017 [46 favorites]
You're a better man than I am. It's smoldering rage and resentment for me. The least qualified presidential nominee in history beating the most qualified? Yeah, great way to go out, human race.
posted by Rykey at 4:13 PM on September 3, 2017 [46 favorites]
Lounged in bed reading most of the day. Got up. Looked at Google News.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 4:20 PM on September 3, 2017 [26 favorites]
1)'Occupation' of Russian diplomatic properties in US 'blunt act of hostility' – Russian Foreign MinistryGoing back to bed now.
2) Mattis to North Korea: Any Threat Will Be Met With 'Massive Military Response'
3) Trump threatens to cut off trade with China
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 4:20 PM on September 3, 2017 [26 favorites]
> ...Trump can’t even pretend. ...When it comes to acting human or compassionate it’s like the part of his brain governing that species of behavior has been removed.So Trump is like Paolo Cortázar in The Expanse except 1) the brain damage was caused both by his dad and self-inflicted, and b) Trump's a couple of orders of magnitude dumber?
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 4:38 PM on September 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
"Mattis warns of 'massive military response' to North Korea nuclear threat"
I'm so old I can remember the days when people assured me it was okay to break the rule regarding civilian leadership of the Department of Defense because Mad Dog Mattis was a warrior scholar who would temper and calm the wild ravings of Trump.
posted by JackFlash at 4:46 PM on September 3, 2017 [37 favorites]
I'm so old I can remember the days when people assured me it was okay to break the rule regarding civilian leadership of the Department of Defense because Mad Dog Mattis was a warrior scholar who would temper and calm the wild ravings of Trump.
posted by JackFlash at 4:46 PM on September 3, 2017 [37 favorites]
Have we already talked about the letter that Obama left Trump?
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:54 PM on September 3, 2017 [30 favorites]
Third, we are just temporary occupants of this office. That makes us guardians of those democratic institutions and traditions -- like rule of law, separation of powers, equal protection and civil liberties -- that our forebears fought and bled for. Regardless of the push and pull of daily politics, it's up to us to leave those instruments of our democracy at least as strong as we found them.With any luck, somebody is going to follow Trump as the next president. I can't even imagine that he'd leave a letter.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:54 PM on September 3, 2017 [30 favorites]
I can't even imagine that he'd leave a letter.
I BEG YOUR PARDON.
posted by dhartung at 5:07 PM on September 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
I BEG YOUR PARDON.
posted by dhartung at 5:07 PM on September 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
I just assume Trump would leave a signed glossy.
posted by drezdn at 5:10 PM on September 3, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 5:10 PM on September 3, 2017 [29 favorites]
Trump will probably Tweet something, assuming his facility is the sort that lets inmates have phones.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:22 PM on September 3, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:22 PM on September 3, 2017 [12 favorites]
Politico, Eliana Johnson, Trump has decided to end DACA, with 6-month delay
posted by zachlipton at 5:35 PM on September 3, 2017 [47 favorites]
Conversations with Attorney General Jeff Sessions, who argued that Congress — rather than the executive branch — is responsible for writing immigration law, helped persuade the president to terminate the program, the two sources said, though White House aides caution that — as with everything in the Trump White House — nothing is set in stone until an official announcement has been made.Fucker. 600,000 people are now depending on Ryan and McConnell to get their heads out of their asses. This is intolerable.
In a nod to reservations held by many lawmakers, the White House plans to delay the enforcement of the president’s decision for six months, giving Congress a window to act, according to one White House official. But a senior White House aide said that chief of staff John Kelly, who has been running the West Wing policy process on the issue, “thinks Congress should’ve gotten its act together a lot longer ago.”
Trump is expected to announce his decision on Tuesday, and the White House informed House Speaker Paul Ryan of the president’s decision on Sunday morning, according to a source close to the administration. Ryan had said during a radio interview on Friday that he didn’t think the president should terminate DACA, and that Congress should act on the issue.
posted by zachlipton at 5:35 PM on September 3, 2017 [47 favorites]
he'll carve his initials in the oval office desk
posted by pyramid termite at 5:37 PM on September 3, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 5:37 PM on September 3, 2017 [12 favorites]
I'm sure the Republicans will express deep concern over this.
posted by Yowser at 5:37 PM on September 3, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 5:37 PM on September 3, 2017 [9 favorites]
> Here's the EPA's official response to stories that it's nowhere to be found in the wake of Harvey:
The press release has now been removed from the site, but according to this twitter thread it also linked to a Breitbart article?!
posted by Buntix at 5:38 PM on September 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
The press release has now been removed from the site, but according to this twitter thread it also linked to a Breitbart article?!
posted by Buntix at 5:38 PM on September 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
I remember hearing about George W. Bush's official portrait being hung in the White House during the Obama administration, and being worried that Obama would have to do the same during the Trump administration. I was relieved when I couldn't find evidence that it was a tradition at all, with some Presidents not even having one.
posted by ZeusHumms at 5:41 PM on September 3, 2017
posted by ZeusHumms at 5:41 PM on September 3, 2017
It's unclear exactly how this works. If your DACA status expires next month, can you renew it? Does it only last five months then (it costs $495 for two years, so charging people that much for a program that's about to end is significant)?
posted by zachlipton at 5:41 PM on September 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by zachlipton at 5:41 PM on September 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Which is to say, saying you're ending it in six months is a scam: Trump gets to act all compassionate while actually hurting hundreds of thousands of people today.
posted by zachlipton at 5:47 PM on September 3, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 5:47 PM on September 3, 2017 [10 favorites]
He's not actually wrong that Congress has completely abdicated its responsibility on this issue, just like he's not wrong that the Republicans in Congress should have had a plan for replacing Obamacare ready to go given how long they'd been railing against it and campaigning on having a plan. It's just that with Trump not being wrong is immaterial, it's just a club to hit his enemies with. If he can be a giant asshole by pointing out that Congress is shitty, he'll point out Congress is shitty. If it served his purpose to do the opposite he'd do the opposite.
posted by Justinian at 5:49 PM on September 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 5:49 PM on September 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
"The press release has now been removed from the site, but according to this twitter thread it also linked to a Breitbart article?!"
Yup.
posted by Pinback at 5:49 PM on September 3, 2017 [11 favorites]
Yup.
posted by Pinback at 5:49 PM on September 3, 2017 [11 favorites]
So okay, now we know that across this great nation hundreds of thousands of people are crying and panicking and wondering what the fuck they're going to do about their immigration status, and this is completely pointless and stupid and benefits no one.
I have to say, I hate Trump like I have never hated another person. There's no hell too deep and no gallows too high. I thought I hated Reagan, I thought I hated Kissinger, I thought I hated Thatcher, but I didn't know what it was to hate until Trump.
If you've ever read CS Lewis's deeply problematic space trilogy, you recollect that the evil scientist Weston invites the forces of hell to possess him. It...it's a really well-drawn portrait of evil so pervasive that it's almost incomprehensible. The protagonist thinks about how just looking at this Un-Man inhabiting the shell of Weston is morally and spiritually disorienting - its manner and expression, its constant petty degradations and cruelties render it almost dizzying to watch, and he thinks that maybe there is a being or a face that is so degraded and so terrible that simply looking at it and being aware of its nature is what composes damnation - that the condition of damnation is simply being in the presence of utter evil for eternity.
I'm telling you, if CS Lewis's science fiction angels descended tonight and told me that Trump had invited possession by the forces of hell, I would believe them. He is a degraded and degrading thing and even contemplating him makes me feel moral vertigo and sickness.
posted by Frowner at 5:52 PM on September 3, 2017 [131 favorites]
I have to say, I hate Trump like I have never hated another person. There's no hell too deep and no gallows too high. I thought I hated Reagan, I thought I hated Kissinger, I thought I hated Thatcher, but I didn't know what it was to hate until Trump.
If you've ever read CS Lewis's deeply problematic space trilogy, you recollect that the evil scientist Weston invites the forces of hell to possess him. It...it's a really well-drawn portrait of evil so pervasive that it's almost incomprehensible. The protagonist thinks about how just looking at this Un-Man inhabiting the shell of Weston is morally and spiritually disorienting - its manner and expression, its constant petty degradations and cruelties render it almost dizzying to watch, and he thinks that maybe there is a being or a face that is so degraded and so terrible that simply looking at it and being aware of its nature is what composes damnation - that the condition of damnation is simply being in the presence of utter evil for eternity.
I'm telling you, if CS Lewis's science fiction angels descended tonight and told me that Trump had invited possession by the forces of hell, I would believe them. He is a degraded and degrading thing and even contemplating him makes me feel moral vertigo and sickness.
posted by Frowner at 5:52 PM on September 3, 2017 [131 favorites]
Re: Trump threatens to end trade with anybody:
While the vast majority of Americans continue to facepalm, I'd like to take this opportunity to remind other nations that there are many, many, intelligent, well-educated and even-tempered adults in our country. We thank you for your patience. Your fragile socio-economic interdependencies are important to us.
*uptempo bossa nova hold music*
posted by petebest at 5:52 PM on September 3, 2017 [22 favorites]
While the vast majority of Americans continue to facepalm, I'd like to take this opportunity to remind other nations that there are many, many, intelligent, well-educated and even-tempered adults in our country. We thank you for your patience. Your fragile socio-economic interdependencies are important to us.
*uptempo bossa nova hold music*
posted by petebest at 5:52 PM on September 3, 2017 [22 favorites]
The press release has now been removed from the site, but according to this twitter thread it also linked to a Breitbart article?!
How can you possibly be surprised by this sort of thing at this point in time? That sort of behavior is to be expected as a baseline from anybody in the federal government who hasn't yet resigned in disgust. Every agency is now staffed by a mixture of insidiously evil Koch types or College Republican members with a third grade reading level and a ninth grade bully's sense of decorum. You know - Trump voters.
I keep seeing people profess shock on here and Twitter, 8 months into this shitshow, about $NEXT_OUTRAGEOUS_THING and while I can understand anger, sadness, etc I definitely do not understand bewilderment.
posted by cyrusdogstar at 5:55 PM on September 3, 2017 [10 favorites]
How can you possibly be surprised by this sort of thing at this point in time? That sort of behavior is to be expected as a baseline from anybody in the federal government who hasn't yet resigned in disgust. Every agency is now staffed by a mixture of insidiously evil Koch types or College Republican members with a third grade reading level and a ninth grade bully's sense of decorum. You know - Trump voters.
I keep seeing people profess shock on here and Twitter, 8 months into this shitshow, about $NEXT_OUTRAGEOUS_THING and while I can understand anger, sadness, etc I definitely do not understand bewilderment.
posted by cyrusdogstar at 5:55 PM on September 3, 2017 [10 favorites]
“I realize that I come to Italy at a time when many are questioning whether America is still committed to remaining engaged in the world, to upholding our traditional alliances, and standing up for the values we share. I also realize — and there is no point in avoiding a little straight talk here — that this doubt has much to do with some of the actions and statements of our President.”
— Sen. John McCain (R-AZ), quoted by Time magazine, at an international economic and policy conference in Lake Como, Italy.
Mmmmwhat's yer point there, Johnny?
posted by petebest at 6:00 PM on September 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
— Sen. John McCain (R-AZ), quoted by Time magazine, at an international economic and policy conference in Lake Como, Italy.
Mmmmwhat's yer point there, Johnny?
posted by petebest at 6:00 PM on September 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
Every agency is now staffed by a mixture of insidiously evil Koch types or College Republican members with a third grade reading level and a ninth grade bully's sense of decorum.
This isn't true. Most of the rank and file are always, and remain, nonpartisan career civil servants. (I mean in terms of their official job duties, obviously most people are partisans on a personal level). Most of State, most of the intelligence agencies, Education, Energy, you name it.
The leadership is a whole 'nother ball of wax and what you say does apply there. But we should keep in mind that the leadership and the rank and file are very different things.
posted by Justinian at 6:00 PM on September 3, 2017 [18 favorites]
This isn't true. Most of the rank and file are always, and remain, nonpartisan career civil servants. (I mean in terms of their official job duties, obviously most people are partisans on a personal level). Most of State, most of the intelligence agencies, Education, Energy, you name it.
The leadership is a whole 'nother ball of wax and what you say does apply there. But we should keep in mind that the leadership and the rank and file are very different things.
posted by Justinian at 6:00 PM on September 3, 2017 [18 favorites]
I can't even imagine that he'd leave a letter.DeaR NeXT PReSiDeNT: You WiLL NeVeR LiVe uP To My TReMeNDouS aND HiSToRiC PReSiDeNCY. SaD!
posted by xyzzy at 6:04 PM on September 3, 2017 [11 favorites]
I have to say, I hate Trump like I have never hated another person.
There's a lot of talk about how Trump has elevated the hate in this country, and usually thats in the context of emboldened hate groups, but I really worry about how much real hatred I'm seeing in good people. It's understandable, and I've already mentioned the kind of road-rage anger I've been feeling. For the mental health of the country I hope we will eventually be able to move past this.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:05 PM on September 3, 2017 [22 favorites]
There's a lot of talk about how Trump has elevated the hate in this country, and usually thats in the context of emboldened hate groups, but I really worry about how much real hatred I'm seeing in good people. It's understandable, and I've already mentioned the kind of road-rage anger I've been feeling. For the mental health of the country I hope we will eventually be able to move past this.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:05 PM on September 3, 2017 [22 favorites]
I don't hate Trump in particular, because he's not causal. He's a symptom.
I mean, I wouldn't cry crocodile tears or anything if he spontaneously combusted due to the lying finally causing his pants to burst into flames, but he's really not my main problem.
My hate is reserved for the people who are failing to enact the proper checks and balances in the government, cynically, for their gain.
posted by Archelaus at 6:11 PM on September 3, 2017 [11 favorites]
I mean, I wouldn't cry crocodile tears or anything if he spontaneously combusted due to the lying finally causing his pants to burst into flames, but he's really not my main problem.
My hate is reserved for the people who are failing to enact the proper checks and balances in the government, cynically, for their gain.
posted by Archelaus at 6:11 PM on September 3, 2017 [11 favorites]
My spidey sense is tingling... I bet the evil bastard Republicans in Congress pass a DACA bill but tie it to funding he Wall, forcing Democrats to either kill DACA or to fund the Wall. That's what I'd do if I were evil and Republican.
posted by Justinian at 6:11 PM on September 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 6:11 PM on September 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
So I remember Obama promising, when he left office, to stay o it of the public eye and out of Trump's way unless he saw something happening which he thought was too cruel, on too vast a scale, to ignore. He called out ending DACA as a specific example. Anyone remember what speech that was so I can search for it more easily?
What do we think he might do? Give a speech now? Lobby congress?
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:13 PM on September 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
What do we think he might do? Give a speech now? Lobby congress?
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:13 PM on September 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
I dunno. I keep trying to lobby my congresscritters and told they feel my issues, but it's not the right time for impeachment (the representative) or that they're curtailed by Senate rules (both of my senators), and they're concerned, etc.
Feels very mealy-mouthed. Kinda miss the checks and balances.
posted by Archelaus at 6:15 PM on September 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Feels very mealy-mouthed. Kinda miss the checks and balances.
posted by Archelaus at 6:15 PM on September 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
David Atkins/Washington Monthly: The Troll Administration
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:18 PM on September 3, 2017 [17 favorites]
With each new appointee, one has to wonder just how many of the Trump administration’s decisions are made for political or ideological reasons, and how many are made just to troll and anger liberals.Based on recent nominations and decisions, one would think that they all are now, perhaps as an unconscious reflection of the increasing stress the Trump administration is under these days.
The news of the last few days has been filled with dismaying appointments that reflect not only a hostility to the very positions the appointees are filling, but intentional taunting of those who care about competent governance.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:18 PM on September 3, 2017 [17 favorites]
Most of the rank and file are always, and remain, nonpartisan career civil servants.
Absolutely true - I forgot to put in important quantifying words; was trying to point out that there are now more idiots (new, or freshly emboldened old; and with good people quitting in disgust the overall percentage of the rest only rises) in every branch, including areas that previously were nothing but nonpartisan lifetime gov't workers. Not that everybody in every branch is suddenly in lockstep with the idiot in chief.
Point was supposed to just be that so many more points of contact with the public and makers of policy are, or have a chance to be, staffed by one of these mouthbreathers than before.
posted by cyrusdogstar at 6:19 PM on September 3, 2017
Absolutely true - I forgot to put in important quantifying words; was trying to point out that there are now more idiots (new, or freshly emboldened old; and with good people quitting in disgust the overall percentage of the rest only rises) in every branch, including areas that previously were nothing but nonpartisan lifetime gov't workers. Not that everybody in every branch is suddenly in lockstep with the idiot in chief.
Point was supposed to just be that so many more points of contact with the public and makers of policy are, or have a chance to be, staffed by one of these mouthbreathers than before.
posted by cyrusdogstar at 6:19 PM on September 3, 2017
Unrelated to recent events, if someone wanted to know how to assist people who might suddenly want to take a vacation sort of off the grid, say, six months from now, how could one do so? Feel free to MeMail me.
posted by Etrigan at 6:20 PM on September 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 6:20 PM on September 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
So whatever happened to those "beachhead" temp alt-right workers in the federal government? Are they permanent now? Any American civil servant want to chip in?
posted by Yowser at 6:23 PM on September 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Yowser at 6:23 PM on September 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
For those that have forgotten what I'm referring to...
posted by Yowser at 6:26 PM on September 3, 2017
posted by Yowser at 6:26 PM on September 3, 2017
dismaying appointments that reflect not only a hostility to the very positions the appointees are filling, but intentional taunting of those who care about competent governance.
D-CA Feinstein, Dianne: Yea
posted by petebest at 6:29 PM on September 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
D-CA Feinstein, Dianne: Yea
posted by petebest at 6:29 PM on September 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
So whatever happened to those "beachhead" temp alt-right workers in the federal government? Are they permanent now? Any American civil servant want to chip in?
Every administration has these. I was one in another lifetime. They're just Schedule Cs "on a 120." Some stay after the 120 days, some get another 120, some leave by choice, some leave because they're not getting another 120 (which is an easy way to fire them). Some "career in" to federal service.
posted by jgirl at 6:36 PM on September 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
It appears that the EPA Press Release complete with Breitbart link is still up on epa.gov - not sure where the "delete" story came from.
posted by obliquity of the ecliptic at 6:41 PM on September 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by obliquity of the ecliptic at 6:41 PM on September 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
I fear that the evil bastard Republucans in Congress will tie Harvey relief to the Trumpsters' hate-fueled dreams to end DACA.
Hmmm... I don't think so. Not because they aren't evil enough to do it but because there's a chance it would backfire and they'd get blamed. The DACA/Wall thing are related enough if you squint at it that they probably feel like it is a win/win.
posted by Justinian at 6:41 PM on September 3, 2017
Hmmm... I don't think so. Not because they aren't evil enough to do it but because there's a chance it would backfire and they'd get blamed. The DACA/Wall thing are related enough if you squint at it that they probably feel like it is a win/win.
posted by Justinian at 6:41 PM on September 3, 2017
I bet the evil bastard Republicans in Congress pass a DACA bill but tie it to funding he Wall, forcing Democrats to either kill DACA or to fund the Wall. That's what I'd do if I were evil and Republican.
But you have to remember that you're a wilier and more strategic Speaker than Ryan is.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:41 PM on September 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
But you have to remember that you're a wilier and more strategic Speaker than Ryan is.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:41 PM on September 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
I found the Obama speech I was looking for. It was from his final press conference.
RODRIGUEZposted by OnceUponATime at 6:45 PM on September 3, 2017 [9 favorites]
Mr. President, thank you very much. You have said that you would come back to fight for the Dreamers. You said that a couple of weeks ago. Are you fearful for the status of those Dreamers -- the future of the young immigrants and all immigrants in this country, with a new administration?
And what did you mean when you said you would come back? Would you lobby Congress? Maybe explore the political arena again?
And if I may ask a second question: Why did you take action on dry foot, wet foot a week ago?
BARACK OBAMA
[...]
There's a difference between that normal functioning of politics and certain issues or certain moments where I think our core values may be at stake. I put in that category if I saw systematic discrimination being ratified in some fashion. I put in that category explicit or functional obstacles to people being able to vote, to exercise their franchise.
I'd put in that category institutional efforts to silence dissent or the press. And for me at least, I would put in that category efforts to round up kids who have grown up here and for all practical purposes are American kids, and send them someplace else, when they love this country. They are our kids' friends and their classmates, and are now entering into community colleges or in some cases serving in our military, that the notion that we would just arbitrarily or because of politics, punish those kids, when they didn't do anything wrong themselves, I think would be something that would merit me speaking out.
It doesn't mean that I would get on the ballot anyway.
I have to say, I hate Trump like I have never hated another person.
If Hunter S. Thompson were alive today, I'm pretty sure most of us would be inside the blast radius of his head, and it wouldn't be pretty. He more or less held it together through the Nixon administration, but this shit? I don't think so.
posted by uosuaq at 6:47 PM on September 3, 2017 [23 favorites]
If Hunter S. Thompson were alive today, I'm pretty sure most of us would be inside the blast radius of his head, and it wouldn't be pretty. He more or less held it together through the Nixon administration, but this shit? I don't think so.
posted by uosuaq at 6:47 PM on September 3, 2017 [23 favorites]
"It appears that the EPA Press Release complete with Breitbart link is still up on epa.gov - not sure where the "delete" story came from."It's been put back up - it definitely was disappeared earlier, because I accidently navigated away from it & got an error when I tried to go back. It's also still missing from the EPA's front page summary, though it's back in the list on the news releases page.
It really is a masterpiece of petulant semi-literate entitled teenage male whining though, and I'm glad it's returned for everyone to see…
posted by Pinback at 6:52 PM on September 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
I bet the evil bastard Republicans in Congress pass a DACA bill but tie it to funding the Wall, forcing Democrats to either kill DACA or to fund the Wall.
Except nobody except Trump and the Trumpazoids wants the actual damn wall. Rank-and-file Republican ALECbots view it as a distraction and an albatross. Many won't vote against it if it comes up thanks to the crazy end of their constituency, but nobody in Congress is enthusiastic enough to put it forward, much less swap it for a Democratic policy win.
posted by jackbishop at 6:54 PM on September 3, 2017
Except nobody except Trump and the Trumpazoids wants the actual damn wall. Rank-and-file Republican ALECbots view it as a distraction and an albatross. Many won't vote against it if it comes up thanks to the crazy end of their constituency, but nobody in Congress is enthusiastic enough to put it forward, much less swap it for a Democratic policy win.
posted by jackbishop at 6:54 PM on September 3, 2017
Democratic Senators that voted against the 2010 DREAM Act: Kay Hagan (NC-defeated by Tom Tillis), Mark Pryor (AR-defeated by Tom Cotton), Ben Nelson (IA - retired), Max Baucus (MT-retired), Jon Tester (MT - still hanging on).
The bill died 56-43 thanks to nominally Democratic votes with an alleged super-majority, and only Tester went on to win another term anyway.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:14 PM on September 3, 2017
The bill died 56-43 thanks to nominally Democratic votes with an alleged super-majority, and only Tester went on to win another term anyway.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:14 PM on September 3, 2017
Wouldn't it have lost 51-48 even if all those folks had voted for it?
posted by Justinian at 7:17 PM on September 3, 2017
posted by Justinian at 7:17 PM on September 3, 2017
Oh, I see, they were trying to break a filibuster. Got it.
posted by Justinian at 7:18 PM on September 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 7:18 PM on September 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
'This Is Fine' Alert:
55 Earthquakes Hit Southeast Idaho From Saturday Night To Sunday Afternoon (Idaho State Journal)
55 Earthquakes Hit Southeast Idaho From Saturday Night To Sunday Afternoon (Idaho State Journal)
In recent decades Southeast Idaho has seen infrequent instances in which one to three weak earthquakes occur near the Western Wyoming border. Local authorities say they cannot ever remember any earthquake swarm in Southeast Idaho that comes even close to the current series of temblors shaking the region.posted by Room 641-A at 7:27 PM on September 3, 2017 [10 favorites]
My spidey sense is tingling... I bet the evil bastard Republicans in Congress pass a DACA bill but tie it to funding he Wall, forcing Democrats to either kill DACA or to fund the Wall. That's what I'd do if I were evil and Republican.
posted by Justinian at 6:11 PM on September 3
I fear that the evil bastard Republucans in Congress will tie Harvey relief to the Trumpsters' hate-fueled dreams to end DACA.
posted by SakuraK at 8:32 PM on September 3 [+] [!]
Trump declared today a day of prayer. I will go out on a limb and say he never prayed a day in his life. Meanwhile, those who will be affected by repealing DACA can and do pray in two languages. This is a skill-set we need.
Trump killed thousands of prayers by his decision.
Still, Illegal immigrants will help rebuild after Harvey. Without going in to too much detail, I have known some and they work 16 hours a day, 6 days a week, every week and are happy to send most of their paycheck back to Mexico.
I think it is crap how they are treated and abused by the system. Yet, they will show up with a smile to help SE Texas rebuild.
It is unconscionable to me that the DACA repeal happens on the day of prayer and could possibly be tied to Harvey relief.
But, really. Everything that little turd does is unconscionable to me.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 7:29 PM on September 3, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 6:11 PM on September 3
I fear that the evil bastard Republucans in Congress will tie Harvey relief to the Trumpsters' hate-fueled dreams to end DACA.
posted by SakuraK at 8:32 PM on September 3 [+] [!]
Trump declared today a day of prayer. I will go out on a limb and say he never prayed a day in his life. Meanwhile, those who will be affected by repealing DACA can and do pray in two languages. This is a skill-set we need.
Trump killed thousands of prayers by his decision.
Still, Illegal immigrants will help rebuild after Harvey. Without going in to too much detail, I have known some and they work 16 hours a day, 6 days a week, every week and are happy to send most of their paycheck back to Mexico.
I think it is crap how they are treated and abused by the system. Yet, they will show up with a smile to help SE Texas rebuild.
It is unconscionable to me that the DACA repeal happens on the day of prayer and could possibly be tied to Harvey relief.
But, really. Everything that little turd does is unconscionable to me.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 7:29 PM on September 3, 2017 [17 favorites]
'This Is Fine' Alert:
Giant Meteor failed us. Yellowstone Caldera 2020?
posted by Justinian at 7:30 PM on September 3, 2017 [10 favorites]
Giant Meteor failed us. Yellowstone Caldera 2020?
posted by Justinian at 7:30 PM on September 3, 2017 [10 favorites]
Remember Bill Hicks, talking about the 1992 LA riots?
Our politics are broken. Law itself is under assault by its executors. Moral authority in the highest offices of our government is worse than tarnished, worse than bankrupt. It is utterly depraved and perverted.
Stopping this is going to require more than phone calls, emails, letters, and Saturday protests. It's going to require sacrifices.
It breaks my heart that though we express our outrage and revulsion, we yet lack the will to take the required action.
Most workaday Germans in the 30s kept their heads low.
Protests are great. But we have to do better.
posted by perspicio at 8:00 PM on September 3, 2017 [10 favorites]
How many people, when you watched the LA riots on the news, and people were getting hauled out of their cars and beaten half to death in the street ... How many people were thinking, as I was...The situation we're in reminds me of that, except in our case, we've got the cities, the economic engines ... I think I see a way out of this. Step on the fucking brakes, man!
"Step on the fucking gas, man! They're on foot, you're in a truck … I think I see a way outta this."
Our politics are broken. Law itself is under assault by its executors. Moral authority in the highest offices of our government is worse than tarnished, worse than bankrupt. It is utterly depraved and perverted.
Stopping this is going to require more than phone calls, emails, letters, and Saturday protests. It's going to require sacrifices.
It breaks my heart that though we express our outrage and revulsion, we yet lack the will to take the required action.
Most workaday Germans in the 30s kept their heads low.
Protests are great. But we have to do better.
posted by perspicio at 8:00 PM on September 3, 2017 [10 favorites]
And, look, I know many of us do sacrifice, so please don't take it as a personal indictment. I mean as a society...we somehow aren't there yet. And I'd like to avert the catastrophe that is inevitable if we don't somehow collectively rise to the occasion.
posted by perspicio at 8:05 PM on September 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by perspicio at 8:05 PM on September 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Mod note: Deleted a few chatty derail comments.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 8:51 PM on September 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 8:51 PM on September 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
The last volunteer rescuer still missing from Harvey was a DACA recipient
Guillen's father, Jesus Guillen, said he'd asked his son not to try and rescue people in the storm, but he insisted, saying he wanted to help people. He cried and prayed on Sunday afternoon as they pulled his son's body from the water.
"Thank you, God," he said, "for the time I had with him."
The recovery of his body brings the number of people who have died or are feared dead from Harvey to nearly 60, and officials warn that more could be found.
Guillen, who was born in Piedras Negras, Mexico, and moved to Lufkin as a teenager, headed south with his friends toward Houston after Hurricane Harvey, towing a borrowed boat. They were near Interstate 45 and Beltway 8 and trying to reach an apartment complex when they hit the bridge, relatives said.
Alonso Guillen was a recipient of the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, which temporarily lifted the threat of deportation for immigrants brought to the U.S. before they were 16, family members said.
His father is a lawful permanent, but his mother is still in the application process for legal status.
Reached at her home in Piedras Negras, Mexico, across the border from Eagle Pass, Rita Ruiz de Guillen, 62, said she is heartbroken.
"I've lost a great son, you have no idea," she said, weeping softly. "I'm asking God to give me strength."
She said she hoped U.S. Customs and Border Protection officials would take pity and grant her a humanitarian visa so that she could come to Houston and bury her son, but she was turned back at the border.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:12 PM on September 3, 2017 [51 favorites]
Guillen's father, Jesus Guillen, said he'd asked his son not to try and rescue people in the storm, but he insisted, saying he wanted to help people. He cried and prayed on Sunday afternoon as they pulled his son's body from the water.
"Thank you, God," he said, "for the time I had with him."
The recovery of his body brings the number of people who have died or are feared dead from Harvey to nearly 60, and officials warn that more could be found.
Guillen, who was born in Piedras Negras, Mexico, and moved to Lufkin as a teenager, headed south with his friends toward Houston after Hurricane Harvey, towing a borrowed boat. They were near Interstate 45 and Beltway 8 and trying to reach an apartment complex when they hit the bridge, relatives said.
Alonso Guillen was a recipient of the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, which temporarily lifted the threat of deportation for immigrants brought to the U.S. before they were 16, family members said.
His father is a lawful permanent, but his mother is still in the application process for legal status.
Reached at her home in Piedras Negras, Mexico, across the border from Eagle Pass, Rita Ruiz de Guillen, 62, said she is heartbroken.
"I've lost a great son, you have no idea," she said, weeping softly. "I'm asking God to give me strength."
She said she hoped U.S. Customs and Border Protection officials would take pity and grant her a humanitarian visa so that she could come to Houston and bury her son, but she was turned back at the border.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:12 PM on September 3, 2017 [51 favorites]
The last volunteer rescuer still missing from Harvey was a DACA recipient
This is how America ends . . .
(I'll let you complete the phrase.)
posted by CommonSense at 9:16 PM on September 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
This is how America ends . . .
(I'll let you complete the phrase.)
posted by CommonSense at 9:16 PM on September 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
...not with a bang but a grifter?
posted by flabdablet at 9:19 PM on September 3, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 9:19 PM on September 3, 2017 [22 favorites]
55 Earthquakes Hit Southeast Idaho From Saturday Night To Sunday Afternoon (Idaho State Journal)
I take it this means Southeast Idaho now has a nuclear weapon.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:32 PM on September 3, 2017 [42 favorites]
I take it this means Southeast Idaho now has a nuclear weapon.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:32 PM on September 3, 2017 [42 favorites]
Or a really big spud gun.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:08 PM on September 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 10:08 PM on September 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
Kid Rock Accused of Violating Election Laws
posted by Room 641-A at 12:00 AM on September 4, 2017 [21 favorites]
Kid Rock made headlines earlier this summer when he teased and then seemingly confirmed a U.S. Senate run. On July 26, Kid Rock said he was still “exploring [his] candidacy,” but according to nonpartisan watchdog organization Common Cause (via Vulture), he is legally a candidate who is violating federal election laws. Common Cause filed a complaint today with the Federal Election Commission and Department of Justice, arguing that Kid Rock became a “candidate” when he participated in campaign activities, like authorizing “Kid Rock for Senate” merchandise by tweeting that the website KidRockForSenate.com was “real.” [...]I'm feeling stabby. And nauseous.
When contacted by Pitchfork, Kid Rock’s representative sent the following statement, which also appears on his website:
I am starting to see reports from the misinformed press and the fake news on how I am in violation of breaking campaign law.
1: I have still not officially announced my candidacy.
2: See #1 and go fuck yourselves.
posted by Room 641-A at 12:00 AM on September 4, 2017 [21 favorites]
Trump Lawyer Asks Journalist If She's On Drugs After James Comey Question
posted by Joseph Gurl at 12:04 AM on September 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Joseph Gurl at 12:04 AM on September 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
You know, I always assumed the transformation into Idiocracy would be more of a gradual thing.
posted by um at 12:13 AM on September 4, 2017 [67 favorites]
posted by um at 12:13 AM on September 4, 2017 [67 favorites]
And I'd like to avert the catastrophe that is inevitable if we don't somehow collectively rise to the occasion.
Well sure, that's great. You're going to need a plan, slogans, a media campaign, admin people, all that stuff. Better start organizing, man.
posted by happyroach at 12:40 AM on September 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
Well sure, that's great. You're going to need a plan, slogans, a media campaign, admin people, all that stuff. Better start organizing, man.
posted by happyroach at 12:40 AM on September 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
I fucked up and for reasons as a writing prompt I asked my class of developmental students to write about a scary experience.
I gave examples like seeing a scary movie or almost getting hit by a car. I'm obviously disabled in a way that makes it clear I've been through some shit, and I mentioned that the top Google result for me is this nonfiction piece about a hospital urinal, so I guess I made them feel comfortable sharing some really dark stuff.
Anyway, through this I know I have a Syrian refugee in my class. He wrote about having airplane ordinance blast through his living room, or however you say it.
I felt really bad: I hadn't meant to traumatize folks by having them tell of truly horrible things, mostly related to health scares, abuse, witnessing death. These are eighteen year olds who have seen darker shit than anything I've lived through, really.
The thing that really struck me is with what little fanfare these young folks told these tales. I remember Khan's speech at the convention: Mr. Trump, you have sacrificed nothing. These people have in various ways sacrificed so much. And for them it's just a fact of their lives, like they come from Philadelphia.
Anyway, I am probably one of those obnoxious white people who are all exalted over their experiences outside the dominant white narrative, but I swear to fucking God, these people are worth fighting for. I'm not sure how the fight is going to come and how much damage will be done, but I swear to God, if ICE comes to my school, I am going to fucking lose my shit. Meaning that I'll be like one of those videos of angry possums.
Scary times, be strong folks.
posted by angrycat at 12:45 AM on September 4, 2017 [65 favorites]
I gave examples like seeing a scary movie or almost getting hit by a car. I'm obviously disabled in a way that makes it clear I've been through some shit, and I mentioned that the top Google result for me is this nonfiction piece about a hospital urinal, so I guess I made them feel comfortable sharing some really dark stuff.
Anyway, through this I know I have a Syrian refugee in my class. He wrote about having airplane ordinance blast through his living room, or however you say it.
I felt really bad: I hadn't meant to traumatize folks by having them tell of truly horrible things, mostly related to health scares, abuse, witnessing death. These are eighteen year olds who have seen darker shit than anything I've lived through, really.
The thing that really struck me is with what little fanfare these young folks told these tales. I remember Khan's speech at the convention: Mr. Trump, you have sacrificed nothing. These people have in various ways sacrificed so much. And for them it's just a fact of their lives, like they come from Philadelphia.
Anyway, I am probably one of those obnoxious white people who are all exalted over their experiences outside the dominant white narrative, but I swear to fucking God, these people are worth fighting for. I'm not sure how the fight is going to come and how much damage will be done, but I swear to God, if ICE comes to my school, I am going to fucking lose my shit. Meaning that I'll be like one of those videos of angry possums.
Scary times, be strong folks.
posted by angrycat at 12:45 AM on September 4, 2017 [65 favorites]
Kid Rock Accused of Violating Election Laws
See, I actually find this really interesting as an window into the specialization of our politigensia, as it were - because I know this is an "ugh Kid Rock corruption" article, but I actually think the problem is that most people who are never planning to run for office don't know anything about election finance laws. And right now, there's a lot of people planning to run for office who never have before.
So when I was doing my delegate organizing with a few other anti-Trump delegates, we almost ran afoul of election finance laws - because being a delegate is an elected position, and there are apparently rules about how you fundraise and how much money you can accept from various sources without having to report the names of everyone who gave you money. I squeaked in just under the limit, thank God, because I was definitely not keeping track of that stuff, but it was a sobering experience, and I would not have known if one of the other delegates weren't a more hardened traditional-politics person.
And there's a lot of rules like that - like, there's a limitation on how many free dinners elected officials can accept, so there's limits on forks at appetizer-only events so it's "not a dinner", or what have you, and it's all a game of jumping through hoops that the people whose business it is to know are well aware of, but no one else has a fucking clue. I'm sure Kid Rock thinks that he's not electioneering until he writes his name on a statement saying "definitely I'm running", and he's dead wrong, but why he's wrong and why it's important that we now have to educate actually everyone is because he stands a chance of actually running and he and everyone else is going to violate these laws until they're unenforceable anymore.
posted by corb at 1:28 AM on September 4, 2017 [49 favorites]
See, I actually find this really interesting as an window into the specialization of our politigensia, as it were - because I know this is an "ugh Kid Rock corruption" article, but I actually think the problem is that most people who are never planning to run for office don't know anything about election finance laws. And right now, there's a lot of people planning to run for office who never have before.
So when I was doing my delegate organizing with a few other anti-Trump delegates, we almost ran afoul of election finance laws - because being a delegate is an elected position, and there are apparently rules about how you fundraise and how much money you can accept from various sources without having to report the names of everyone who gave you money. I squeaked in just under the limit, thank God, because I was definitely not keeping track of that stuff, but it was a sobering experience, and I would not have known if one of the other delegates weren't a more hardened traditional-politics person.
And there's a lot of rules like that - like, there's a limitation on how many free dinners elected officials can accept, so there's limits on forks at appetizer-only events so it's "not a dinner", or what have you, and it's all a game of jumping through hoops that the people whose business it is to know are well aware of, but no one else has a fucking clue. I'm sure Kid Rock thinks that he's not electioneering until he writes his name on a statement saying "definitely I'm running", and he's dead wrong, but why he's wrong and why it's important that we now have to educate actually everyone is because he stands a chance of actually running and he and everyone else is going to violate these laws until they're unenforceable anymore.
posted by corb at 1:28 AM on September 4, 2017 [49 favorites]
By the way, make sure to fire up ResistBot or your preferred method of contacting your congress humanoids and letting them know exactly what you feel about DACA.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:50 AM on September 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:50 AM on September 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
Trump Lawyer Asks Journalist If She's On Drugs After James Comey Question
Here's more context if not more sense from Cobb: 'Are you on drugs?': Top Trump lawyer Ty Cobb slams 'rabid' press in lengthy response to questions on Comey letter.
posted by scalefree at 4:34 AM on September 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Here's more context if not more sense from Cobb: 'Are you on drugs?': Top Trump lawyer Ty Cobb slams 'rabid' press in lengthy response to questions on Comey letter.
posted by scalefree at 4:34 AM on September 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
I was under the impression that Ty Cobb, unlike many of Trump's lawyers or his baseball playing relative, was a solid lawyer with a pretty good reputation. Have we coined a word for what happens to people when they associate with Trump?
posted by rdr at 4:51 AM on September 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by rdr at 4:51 AM on September 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trumped
posted by Wilder at 4:54 AM on September 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Wilder at 4:54 AM on September 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
but I actually think the problem is that most people who are never planning to run for office don't know anything about election finance laws..
corb, you make good points but I think the problem is not so much the "people make honest mistakes which can be corrected" part and more the "go fuck yourselves" part.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:57 AM on September 4, 2017 [20 favorites]
corb, you make good points but I think the problem is not so much the "people make honest mistakes which can be corrected" part and more the "go fuck yourselves" part.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:57 AM on September 4, 2017 [20 favorites]
You know, I always assumed the transformation into Idiocracy would be more of a gradual thing
It was.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:58 AM on September 4, 2017 [11 favorites]
It was.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:58 AM on September 4, 2017 [11 favorites]
Also, dignity wraith. Coined by Josh Marshall of Talking Points Memo.
posted by scalefree at 4:58 AM on September 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 4:58 AM on September 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
South Korea Wonders Why Trump Is Attacking Them
“Opinion polls show South Koreans have one of the lowest rates of regard for Trump in the world and they don’t consider him to be a reasonable person. In fact, they worry he’s kind of nuts, but they still want the alliance.”
Amongst everyfuckingthing else, it chaps my ass that the non-pithed Americans don't have a recognized outlet to say, "South Korea! I know! We're so sorry and we're working really hard to fix it!"
I say we don't have a recognized outlet. CNN. ABC. Yeah, you'd better look away.
C'mon Interwebs! Where's our real-time global babelfish video chat community?! The non-porn one, I mean. Obviously.
posted by petebest at 5:41 AM on September 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
“Opinion polls show South Koreans have one of the lowest rates of regard for Trump in the world and they don’t consider him to be a reasonable person. In fact, they worry he’s kind of nuts, but they still want the alliance.”
Amongst everyfuckingthing else, it chaps my ass that the non-pithed Americans don't have a recognized outlet to say, "South Korea! I know! We're so sorry and we're working really hard to fix it!"
I say we don't have a recognized outlet. CNN. ABC. Yeah, you'd better look away.
C'mon Interwebs! Where's our real-time global babelfish video chat community?! The non-porn one, I mean. Obviously.
posted by petebest at 5:41 AM on September 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
Opinion polls show South Koreans have one of the lowest rates of regard for Trump in the world ...
Bless your Seoul, it's fake news again
posted by Namlit at 5:47 AM on September 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
Bless your Seoul, it's fake news again
posted by Namlit at 5:47 AM on September 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
His "good Christians" framing is much kinder than I would be - he's a Jesuit priest and I'm an angry MeFite - but the hypocrisy is accurate.
@JamesMartinSJ
Many good Christians who oppose #DACA because of questions of the laws and legality, also oppose same-sex marriage and abortion, both...
- ...of which are legal. When it comes to same-sex marriage and abortion, they say that there are higher laws to be respected. But when it..
- ...comes to #DACA suddenly it's all about the law. There are higher laws at work here as well. Jesus explicitly tells us...
- ...to welcome the stranger (Mt 25). If you wish to follow the higher laws, you cannot get higher than one that comes directly from Jesus.
posted by chris24 at 6:02 AM on September 4, 2017 [67 favorites]
@JamesMartinSJ
Many good Christians who oppose #DACA because of questions of the laws and legality, also oppose same-sex marriage and abortion, both...
- ...of which are legal. When it comes to same-sex marriage and abortion, they say that there are higher laws to be respected. But when it..
- ...comes to #DACA suddenly it's all about the law. There are higher laws at work here as well. Jesus explicitly tells us...
- ...to welcome the stranger (Mt 25). If you wish to follow the higher laws, you cannot get higher than one that comes directly from Jesus.
posted by chris24 at 6:02 AM on September 4, 2017 [67 favorites]
Ah, the Bible. A book that's remarkably hard to read while you're thumping it.
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:06 AM on September 4, 2017 [62 favorites]
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:06 AM on September 4, 2017 [62 favorites]
No doubt that's why they only grab phrases here and there to support their agenda.
posted by Autumnheart at 6:11 AM on September 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Autumnheart at 6:11 AM on September 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Tom Cotton says he's open to a deal for DACA, but he cites passing the RAISE act, which would cut legal immigration by over half, and mandatory e-verify, which would further marginalize undocumented people out of the economy, as what he wants in return for saving the 800k DACA kids.
Republicans will use Trump's cruelty to DACA recipients as an opportunity to leverage even more cruelty against the other 11 million undocumented immigrants not in the DACA program. Because they're Republicans. Every one of them is exactly as cruel as Trump. That's why they vote with him 100% time, except that one time John McCain and Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins didn't.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:18 AM on September 4, 2017 [20 favorites]
Republicans will use Trump's cruelty to DACA recipients as an opportunity to leverage even more cruelty against the other 11 million undocumented immigrants not in the DACA program. Because they're Republicans. Every one of them is exactly as cruel as Trump. That's why they vote with him 100% time, except that one time John McCain and Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins didn't.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:18 AM on September 4, 2017 [20 favorites]
Oh, and the RAISE act would naturally target a Democratic leaning constituency, so hurray future voter suppression at the same time as overt cruelty. Really, is there anything that says "Republican" more than deporting children and voter suppression? Maybe tax cuts and torturing brown people, but that'd be the only other things. Two great tastes!
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:21 AM on September 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:21 AM on September 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
Interesting article about satirising fascists etc on a military site (www.armyupress.army.mil/Journals/Military-Review/English-Edition-Archives/September-October-2017/Waller-Weaponizing-Ridicule/). Tl,dr; mocking fascists and terrorists has positive outcomes.
Article is full of interesting cites - my fav so far is this Atlantic article from 2010 (www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/07/the-case-for-calling-them-nitwits/308130/).
Second article written by Daniel Byman and Christine Fair, of 'getting Richard Spencer kicked out of a gym' fame (dcist.com/2017/05/white_nationalist_richard_spencer_e.php).
posted by mgrrl at 6:42 AM on September 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
Article is full of interesting cites - my fav so far is this Atlantic article from 2010 (www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/07/the-case-for-calling-them-nitwits/308130/).
Second article written by Daniel Byman and Christine Fair, of 'getting Richard Spencer kicked out of a gym' fame (dcist.com/2017/05/white_nationalist_richard_spencer_e.php).
posted by mgrrl at 6:42 AM on September 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
So I remember Obama promising, when he left office, to stay o it of the public eye and out of Trump's way unless he saw something happening which he thought was too cruel, on too vast a scale, to ignore. He called out ending DACA as a specific example. Anyone remember what speech that was so I can search for it more easily? What do we think he might do? Give a speech now? Lobby congress?
Politico: Obama to speak out if Trump ends DACA
Politico: Obama to speak out if Trump ends DACA
Former President Barack Obama plans to speak out if President Donald Trump declares his intention to end the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, according to a person close to Obama. ...posted by chris24 at 6:52 AM on September 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
Obama’s current plan is to post a statement on Facebook and link to it on Twitter, where the former president has more than 94 million followers. In his final presidential press availability, he suggested that he would speak out if Trump went after the Dreamers — and that it was one of the few issues where he would feel morally compelled to do so. He said he would not remain silent in the face of “efforts to round up kids who have grown up here and for all practical purposes are American kids, and send them someplace else, when they love this country.”
In fact, Obama has largely avoided direct criticism of his successor, even though some of his supporters have clamored for him to lead the resistance to Trump, even as Trump has repeatedly attacked him by name and tried to roll back his legacy. The thinking in Obama’s inner circle is that he must choose his spots to join the national debate, trying to remain above the fray, focus on his foundation, and let other Democrats take the lead. He wants to follow the traditions of other post-presidents, and he isn’t eager to engage in fights with a political brawler who’s always looking for a foil to rally the Republican base.
Sane Republicans (for varying values of sane) realize that DACA repeal is a moral travesty and will Prop 187 the GOP.
@RWPUSA (GWB WH Ethics Lawyer)
Trump punts to Congress on DACA. They either save it or we might as well turn the GOP over to the KKK. Hispanics will never vote R again.
@TheRickWilson (GOP strategist)
1/ Now course Sturmbart et al will spooge themselves, since President Blood and Soil gave the alt-reich a big wink.
2/ You don't have to agree w Obama's decision (I prefer legislative paths) to know this is a steaming pile of...
3/ ...political and moral hazard. California was full of Republicans who loved Prop 187. Now CA is not full of Republicans at all.
4/ But at least Trump keeps the base of the base of the base. What could go wrong?
5/ There's no way downballot GOPers will ever face ads with tearful deportee honor students. And of course the polling shows...
6/ ...Americans LOVE this idea, right? Right? Right?
7/ And for all the GOP and Ryan hand-wringing, they won't pass a bill to stop it. That would make political sense.
8/ It's ok. These are all cantaloupe-calved drug mule MexiMuslim terrorists here to dilute the purity of the Oxymerica master race, right?
@JRubinBlogger (WaPo)
Charlottesville, Arpaio, DACA -- hard to argue this is not the party of white grievance. Despicable.
- perhaps Pelosi should withhold votes for debt ceiling unless DACA included. POTUS unconscionable cruelty demands no-holds-barred fight
- Congress shouldn't pass CR or appropriations for 2018 for DHS without Dreamer protection -- you know if they are serious about this
- So Sessions talked Trump into being the villain and letting Congress get praise. A con man is easily conned
@JWGOP (GOP strategist)
After running a bigoted housing program, Central Park 5, lead birther, attack on Mexicans, Hispanic Judge, Muslim Gold Star parents, 1/3
- hiring white nationalists into campaign/White House, repeating fool Alex Jones, equalizing Nazis/haters with others in Charlottesville, 2/3
- being enough of a soul mate to a bigoted racist sheriff to pardon, please don't attempt to tell me he really doesn't want to end DACA.
- and if he wanted to keep DACA, he simply could. But as usual, he's morally repugnant, a coward and calculating. So give me a break with this
- And I left out all kinds of other racist, sexist, morally repugnant behavior in an attempt at brevity. He's unfit, bottom line.
---
And of course, the journalist John Weaver is referring to is Maggie Haberman at the Times, who last night tweeted that the 6 month delay we know no details on (SPOILER: it's a ploy to make it seem kinder) meant Trump really doesn't want to end DACA, because of course she did.
@maggieNYT
This is not how Politico story is being read, but reality is this is a signal the president does not actually want to end DACA and 1/
2/ it's not clear what will be different in six months that will make him end it. Doesn't mean he says "i'll keep it." Also doesn't mean ...
3/....that he ends it.
posted by chris24 at 7:40 AM on September 4, 2017 [37 favorites]
@RWPUSA (GWB WH Ethics Lawyer)
Trump punts to Congress on DACA. They either save it or we might as well turn the GOP over to the KKK. Hispanics will never vote R again.
@TheRickWilson (GOP strategist)
1/ Now course Sturmbart et al will spooge themselves, since President Blood and Soil gave the alt-reich a big wink.
2/ You don't have to agree w Obama's decision (I prefer legislative paths) to know this is a steaming pile of...
3/ ...political and moral hazard. California was full of Republicans who loved Prop 187. Now CA is not full of Republicans at all.
4/ But at least Trump keeps the base of the base of the base. What could go wrong?
5/ There's no way downballot GOPers will ever face ads with tearful deportee honor students. And of course the polling shows...
6/ ...Americans LOVE this idea, right? Right? Right?
7/ And for all the GOP and Ryan hand-wringing, they won't pass a bill to stop it. That would make political sense.
8/ It's ok. These are all cantaloupe-calved drug mule MexiMuslim terrorists here to dilute the purity of the Oxymerica master race, right?
@JRubinBlogger (WaPo)
Charlottesville, Arpaio, DACA -- hard to argue this is not the party of white grievance. Despicable.
- perhaps Pelosi should withhold votes for debt ceiling unless DACA included. POTUS unconscionable cruelty demands no-holds-barred fight
- Congress shouldn't pass CR or appropriations for 2018 for DHS without Dreamer protection -- you know if they are serious about this
- So Sessions talked Trump into being the villain and letting Congress get praise. A con man is easily conned
@JWGOP (GOP strategist)
After running a bigoted housing program, Central Park 5, lead birther, attack on Mexicans, Hispanic Judge, Muslim Gold Star parents, 1/3
- hiring white nationalists into campaign/White House, repeating fool Alex Jones, equalizing Nazis/haters with others in Charlottesville, 2/3
- being enough of a soul mate to a bigoted racist sheriff to pardon, please don't attempt to tell me he really doesn't want to end DACA.
- and if he wanted to keep DACA, he simply could. But as usual, he's morally repugnant, a coward and calculating. So give me a break with this
- And I left out all kinds of other racist, sexist, morally repugnant behavior in an attempt at brevity. He's unfit, bottom line.
---
And of course, the journalist John Weaver is referring to is Maggie Haberman at the Times, who last night tweeted that the 6 month delay we know no details on (SPOILER: it's a ploy to make it seem kinder) meant Trump really doesn't want to end DACA, because of course she did.
@maggieNYT
This is not how Politico story is being read, but reality is this is a signal the president does not actually want to end DACA and 1/
2/ it's not clear what will be different in six months that will make him end it. Doesn't mean he says "i'll keep it." Also doesn't mean ...
3/....that he ends it.
posted by chris24 at 7:40 AM on September 4, 2017 [37 favorites]
NeverTrumpers will stop him this time, surely.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:44 AM on September 4, 2017
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:44 AM on September 4, 2017
Have we noted this interesting new direction from Julian?
@julianassange Capitalism+atheism+feminism = sterility = migration. EU birthrate = 1.6. Replacement = 2.1. Merkel, May, Macron, Gentiloni all childless.
There is an attached table of facts and figures supporting his concern for the future of the white race.
Weird how everyone with Russian ties turns out to be a Nazi and everyone who is a Nazi turns out to have Russian ties.
posted by Artw at 7:45 AM on September 4, 2017 [84 favorites]
@julianassange Capitalism+atheism+feminism = sterility = migration. EU birthrate = 1.6. Replacement = 2.1. Merkel, May, Macron, Gentiloni all childless.
There is an attached table of facts and figures supporting his concern for the future of the white race.
Weird how everyone with Russian ties turns out to be a Nazi and everyone who is a Nazi turns out to have Russian ties.
posted by Artw at 7:45 AM on September 4, 2017 [84 favorites]
Hispanics will never vote R again.
Racial groups are not homogenous units. Plenty of integrated hispanics have drank the Kool-Aid to keep the Rs afloat. Hell, Cruz and Rubio are more than happy to sell out their brothers in the name of cruel conservatism. I think we're overestimating the effects of DACA on the hispanic electorate.
posted by Talez at 7:49 AM on September 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
Racial groups are not homogenous units. Plenty of integrated hispanics have drank the Kool-Aid to keep the Rs afloat. Hell, Cruz and Rubio are more than happy to sell out their brothers in the name of cruel conservatism. I think we're overestimating the effects of DACA on the hispanic electorate.
posted by Talez at 7:49 AM on September 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
There is an attached table of facts and figures supporting his concern for the future of the white race.
I don't care much for Assange but where are you getting the white nationalist angle? I mean if that's the intent why would he follow up that tweet with a reference to the Monthly Review?
posted by dmh at 8:08 AM on September 4, 2017
I don't care much for Assange but where are you getting the white nationalist angle? I mean if that's the intent why would he follow up that tweet with a reference to the Monthly Review?
posted by dmh at 8:08 AM on September 4, 2017
Someone who wasn't concerned for the white race would say "hey, by happy coincidence we have lots of people who want to go to Europe, just as European populations are aging - lighten up on the racism, problem solved!" Or they might say, "fewer children in affluent societies is actually good for the environment", actually. But once you get into "oh noes, white people are having fewer babies", you're in white nationalist territory.
I have to say, I was totally wrong about Assange and should have listened to people with better gut instincts. This whole "use anti-capitalism to crush feminism" thing is worrying, too - I know a number of radical media dudes who I bet would totally go there.
posted by Frowner at 8:13 AM on September 4, 2017 [71 favorites]
I have to say, I was totally wrong about Assange and should have listened to people with better gut instincts. This whole "use anti-capitalism to crush feminism" thing is worrying, too - I know a number of radical media dudes who I bet would totally go there.
posted by Frowner at 8:13 AM on September 4, 2017 [71 favorites]
There was a lot of Russia news lately and I put some time into updating my "2016 active measures" site.
The newer stories are woven into the text throughout. The big change, though, is that I got over my fear of being called a conspiracy theorist enough to lay out an actual theory.
The piles of evidence are becoming so huge. It is too much to summarize and oo much expect anyone to sort through it all without some kind of narrative to make sense of it all -- a fit line to show the trend in all that data. Trying to use careful language and to acknowledge other possibilities and to keep my so far unproven suspicions about Sessions' larger role out of it for now, though.
Anyway if you are looking for a half page summary to share with people who have not been following the Russia story, this is my best effort.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:14 AM on September 4, 2017 [34 favorites]
The newer stories are woven into the text throughout. The big change, though, is that I got over my fear of being called a conspiracy theorist enough to lay out an actual theory.
The piles of evidence are becoming so huge. It is too much to summarize and oo much expect anyone to sort through it all without some kind of narrative to make sense of it all -- a fit line to show the trend in all that data. Trying to use careful language and to acknowledge other possibilities and to keep my so far unproven suspicions about Sessions' larger role out of it for now, though.
Anyway if you are looking for a half page summary to share with people who have not been following the Russia story, this is my best effort.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:14 AM on September 4, 2017 [34 favorites]
Where is the White Nationalism in freaking out about immigrants being a threat to the white race? Hmmmmmm....
posted by Artw at 8:15 AM on September 4, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:15 AM on September 4, 2017 [14 favorites]
Capitalism+atheism+feminism = sterility
Not to mention the assault on our precious bodily fluids!
posted by Dr Dracator at 8:17 AM on September 4, 2017 [14 favorites]
Not to mention the assault on our precious bodily fluids!
posted by Dr Dracator at 8:17 AM on September 4, 2017 [14 favorites]
Jennifer Rubin has expanded on her tweets in a column that calls for the death of the GOP. The conclusion:
WaPo: Ending DACA would be Trump’s most evil act
WaPo: Ending DACA would be Trump’s most evil act
No, if Trump cancels DACA, it will be one more attempt to endear himself to his shrinking base with the only thing that truly energizes the dead-enders: vengeance fueled by white grievance. And it will also be an act of uncommon cowardice. (“Should Trump move forward with this decision, he would effectively be buying time and punting responsibility to Congress to determine the fate of the Dreamers,” writes The Post.) Dumping it into the lap of the hapless Congress, he can try evading responsibility for the deportation of nearly 800,000 young people who were brought here as children, 91 percent of whom are working. (And if by chance Congress should save DACA, it will be Trump who is the villain and they the saviors, an odd political choice for a president who cares not one wit about the party.)posted by chris24 at 8:28 AM on September 4, 2017 [58 favorites]
As for Congress, House Speaker Paul Ryan, who talks about sparing the dreamers, will be sorely tested to overcome the objections of the hard-line anti-immigrant voices in his conference. Does he have the nerve to bring to the floor a bill that lacks majority support among Republicans? Tie it to a must-pass bill (e.g., Harvey funding, the debt ceiling, funding for the government)? In the Senate, will opportunistic right-wingers such as Sen. Tom Cotton (R-Ark.) grandstand, perhaps filibustering a measure into order to out-Trump Trump?
However this turns out, the GOP under Trump has defined itself as the white grievance party — bluntly, a party fueled by concocted white resentment aimed at minorities. Of all the actions Trump has taken, none has been as cruel, thoughtless or divisive as deporting hundreds of thousands of young people who’ve done nothing but go to school, work hard and present themselves to the government.
The party of Lincoln has become the party of Charlottesville, Arpaio, DACA repeal and the Muslim ban. Embodying the very worst sentiments and driven by irrational anger, it deserves not defense but extinction.
As a non-western second-generation immigrant to Europe I realize that immigration and demographics are fraught topics, especially these days, but I don't think that means that everyone who points out Europe's demographic challenges is a Nazi.
posted by dmh at 8:31 AM on September 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by dmh at 8:31 AM on September 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
In my fantasy world, Congress returns and puts a bill putting DACA into law on Trump's desk in a day.
I'm going to start drinking now.
posted by mikelieman at 8:31 AM on September 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm going to start drinking now.
posted by mikelieman at 8:31 AM on September 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm currently tending towards the movie version of this maladministration being Dr Strangelove but with President Merkin Muffley replaced by President William J. Le Petomane ("No offence") from Blazing Saddles. I've been reading the scripts for both movies recently, and by Jiminy they're too on the nose far too often.
posted by Devonian at 8:32 AM on September 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 8:32 AM on September 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
I don't think that means that everyone who points out Europe's demographic challenges is a Nazi.
I don't buy that the artificial construct, "Race" is a valid demographic, therefore I believe "concerns" about it are not valid too.
(source: Anthropologist classes - organisms in the same Genus/Species interbreed )
posted by mikelieman at 8:33 AM on September 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
I don't buy that the artificial construct, "Race" is a valid demographic, therefore I believe "concerns" about it are not valid too.
(source: Anthropologist classes - organisms in the same Genus/Species interbreed )
posted by mikelieman at 8:33 AM on September 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
I'm currently tending towards the movie version of this maladministration being Dr Strangelove but with President Merkin Muffley replaced by President William J. Le Petomane ("No offence") from Blazing Saddles. I've been reading the scripts for both movies recently, and by Jiminy they're too on the nose far too often.
I have often said, "Blazing Saddles was the high point of human civilization". Your argument opens up the possibility that it may be Dr. Strangelove.
Fucking 2017, yet once again.
posted by mikelieman at 8:35 AM on September 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
I have often said, "Blazing Saddles was the high point of human civilization". Your argument opens up the possibility that it may be Dr. Strangelove.
Fucking 2017, yet once again.
posted by mikelieman at 8:35 AM on September 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
@julianassange Why is the anti-interventionist, anti-imperialist vigor so much stronger in the U.S. "right" compared to the U.S. "left"?
Dude is def on a strong "Nazis are good" kick these days.
posted by Artw at 8:36 AM on September 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
Dude is def on a strong "Nazis are good" kick these days.
posted by Artw at 8:36 AM on September 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
FYI, we have finally poisoned alt-right enough that many of them don't even want to use it anymore. So when you see #NewRight, know that it's just a paint job on a Nazi.
posted by chris24 at 8:40 AM on September 4, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 8:40 AM on September 4, 2017 [34 favorites]
This whole "use anti-capitalism to crush feminism" thing is worrying, too - I know a number of radical media dudes who I bet would totally go there.
So push anti-capitalism harder than they do then. What is the problem here?
posted by FakeFreyja at 8:41 AM on September 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
So push anti-capitalism harder than they do then. What is the problem here?
posted by FakeFreyja at 8:41 AM on September 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Dude is def on a strong "Nazis are good" kick these days
Fair enough! I never liked the guy but I wasn't aware he's decomposing in this particularly foul manner.
posted by dmh at 8:44 AM on September 4, 2017
Fair enough! I never liked the guy but I wasn't aware he's decomposing in this particularly foul manner.
posted by dmh at 8:44 AM on September 4, 2017
It deeply disturbs me that we're back, yet again, to the Democratic Party and other "liberal" establishments attacking the left and by doing so implicitly defending the right.
Nancy Pelosi issued a statement condemning the antifa.
This is entirely a self inflicted wound. She didn't need to. She could have just said nothing if she lacked the moral courage to praise them as they deserve.
Note that the right **NEVER** condemns its own, while self-condemnation is the favored hobby of the Democrats. The Republican Party is so dedicated to never attacking the right that it won't even condemn actual Nazis.
Note that Howard Dean's political career was ended by the Democrats after he got excited and yelled "yeah" at a rally. Donald Trump would have been out after his first rally if that standard was applied to him.
The Republicans still embrace and defend Limbaugh, Coulter, and all the other right wing hate shouters. The Democrats, meanwhile, decided Michael Moore was too fighty so he's out and the liberal establishment has disowned him.
No liberal or leftist can ever get too successful, too effective, or (worst of all) too aggressive, without the Democrats using their every power to crush and destroy them.
After all these years, after seeing the Obama years, the Democratic Party, is still devoted to the sad proposition that if only they attack the left enough than the cool kids at FOX News will like them, still attacking the people doing the hard and dangerous work of actually opposing the crazy right.
The LA Times is talking up declaring antifa to be a gang, you'll note that declaring the Klan a gang, or the neo-Nazis to be a gang, or the militias to be a gang isn't even on the radar. Nope, anti-gang laws will be used only against the left if the LA Times has anything to say about it.
I'd ask how the Democrats expect to win when they keep hurting their own side, but I'm increasingly convinced that the Democrats don't actually want to win.
posted by sotonohito at 8:57 AM on September 4, 2017 [70 favorites]
Nancy Pelosi issued a statement condemning the antifa.
This is entirely a self inflicted wound. She didn't need to. She could have just said nothing if she lacked the moral courage to praise them as they deserve.
Note that the right **NEVER** condemns its own, while self-condemnation is the favored hobby of the Democrats. The Republican Party is so dedicated to never attacking the right that it won't even condemn actual Nazis.
Note that Howard Dean's political career was ended by the Democrats after he got excited and yelled "yeah" at a rally. Donald Trump would have been out after his first rally if that standard was applied to him.
The Republicans still embrace and defend Limbaugh, Coulter, and all the other right wing hate shouters. The Democrats, meanwhile, decided Michael Moore was too fighty so he's out and the liberal establishment has disowned him.
No liberal or leftist can ever get too successful, too effective, or (worst of all) too aggressive, without the Democrats using their every power to crush and destroy them.
After all these years, after seeing the Obama years, the Democratic Party, is still devoted to the sad proposition that if only they attack the left enough than the cool kids at FOX News will like them, still attacking the people doing the hard and dangerous work of actually opposing the crazy right.
The LA Times is talking up declaring antifa to be a gang, you'll note that declaring the Klan a gang, or the neo-Nazis to be a gang, or the militias to be a gang isn't even on the radar. Nope, anti-gang laws will be used only against the left if the LA Times has anything to say about it.
I'd ask how the Democrats expect to win when they keep hurting their own side, but I'm increasingly convinced that the Democrats don't actually want to win.
posted by sotonohito at 8:57 AM on September 4, 2017 [70 favorites]
they want to win - they just don't want to have to change much of anything if they do win - government and the democrats have been held hostage for so long by the republicans that they're starting to exhibit symptoms of the stockholm syndrome
posted by pyramid termite at 9:04 AM on September 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 9:04 AM on September 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
I agree sotonohito, and it is so frustrating. It feels like too many people believe that a step in any direction leads to an inevitable slippery-slope fall - that being able to acknowledge these slopes must necessarily mean that any step is a step too far. I suppose that if this kind of paralysis benefits anyone, it would be those already in-place, staying in the safe center of their position in the party.
posted by Golem XIV at 9:04 AM on September 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Golem XIV at 9:04 AM on September 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Nancy Pelosi issued a statement condemning the antifa.How is anarchy "the left?" Every article and interview I've read has stated that antifa is not really associated with a political wing and that most of them lean more towards anarchy than socialism. They happen to share one lefty goal with lefties: they abhor inequality. But the entire reason they are happy to destroy government property and attack the police is because they don't trust government institutions. That doesn't seem particularly lefty.
posted by xyzzy at 9:14 AM on September 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
No liberal or leftist can ever get too successful, too effective, or (worst of all) too aggressive, without the Democrats using their every power to crush and destroy them.
After all these years, after seeing the Obama years, the Democratic Party, is still devoted to the sad proposition that if only they attack the left enough than the cool kids at FOX News will like them, still attacking the people doing the hard and dangerous work of actually opposing the crazy right.
Cenk Uygur on Larry Wilmore's podcast this week called Democrats the Washington Generals. It's their job to put up the "good fight" and lose to Republicans, then throw up hands and sigh, "there was nothing more we could do". Like when Obama made 94% of the Bush tax cut permanent, and tried repeatedly to reach a "grand bargain" to gut the social safety net. Republicans still called him a Kenyan Socialist anyway.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:18 AM on September 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
After all these years, after seeing the Obama years, the Democratic Party, is still devoted to the sad proposition that if only they attack the left enough than the cool kids at FOX News will like them, still attacking the people doing the hard and dangerous work of actually opposing the crazy right.
Cenk Uygur on Larry Wilmore's podcast this week called Democrats the Washington Generals. It's their job to put up the "good fight" and lose to Republicans, then throw up hands and sigh, "there was nothing more we could do". Like when Obama made 94% of the Bush tax cut permanent, and tried repeatedly to reach a "grand bargain" to gut the social safety net. Republicans still called him a Kenyan Socialist anyway.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:18 AM on September 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
They happen to share one lefty goal with lefties: they abhor inequality.
So, THE lefty goal.
posted by Artw at 9:20 AM on September 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
So, THE lefty goal.
posted by Artw at 9:20 AM on September 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'd ask how the Democrats expect to win
1) Collect underpants . . .
No but seriously it's getting crunchtimey to plan AROUND the DNC/CC. For all the good they do, they're responsible as much as anyone for a historic, catastrophic, national loss. Everybody out. Leave the money. And HRC's cyber messaging team.
Whats-his-face couldn't win in blue Atlanta with, what, 15 million dollars? Fuck me, man, just give every Dem in the state $7.50 and let them buy a sandwich. Or 75,000 Chromebooks.
There needs to be a rough draft in place of circumventing the Democrats. I've lost enough times and we're long past that being ok. It'd be great if they want to, y'know, get on board with blocking Trump's gumps (Dianne!), or I dunno, respect the right of women to have their own bodies I guess? Whatever they feel they can do.
But srsly we need an open source encrypted donation and message machine. For mobile. Now. Please.
posted by petebest at 9:22 AM on September 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
1) Collect underpants . . .
No but seriously it's getting crunchtimey to plan AROUND the DNC/CC. For all the good they do, they're responsible as much as anyone for a historic, catastrophic, national loss. Everybody out. Leave the money. And HRC's cyber messaging team.
Whats-his-face couldn't win in blue Atlanta with, what, 15 million dollars? Fuck me, man, just give every Dem in the state $7.50 and let them buy a sandwich. Or 75,000 Chromebooks.
There needs to be a rough draft in place of circumventing the Democrats. I've lost enough times and we're long past that being ok. It'd be great if they want to, y'know, get on board with blocking Trump's gumps (Dianne!), or I dunno, respect the right of women to have their own bodies I guess? Whatever they feel they can do.
But srsly we need an open source encrypted donation and message machine. For mobile. Now. Please.
posted by petebest at 9:22 AM on September 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
And its tied back to money in poltics. Democrats are not attacking the progressive left because they truly believe in neoliberal or establishment policies, they're paid to do it. The donor class is the same, funding strong Republicans who are always more rightwards every single cycle, and weak Democrats who are also more rightwards with every lost seat. The entire Democratic consultant industry is paid to lose convincingly, because the tax cuts must flow.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:22 AM on September 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:22 AM on September 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
condemning anti-fascists tells me everything i need to know about someone
posted by entropicamericana at 9:27 AM on September 4, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 9:27 AM on September 4, 2017 [30 favorites]
The thinking in Obama’s inner circle is that he must choose his spots to join the national debate
Nnnnnnnyeah, no, ugh. I see the line of thinking there and it's not unreasonable, but I think that's the only BAD play. Obama and Clinton disappearing deprives Trump of the boogeyman he likes to use CONSTANTLY. They've been gone so long now he's having to give that up as looking too ridiculous even for him (which has to be ridiculous indeed). Making any overt act of involvement takes us back to square one in that regard. The options are 'all out' or 'all the fuck in with hiking boots on and camping gear to stay as long as it takes.'
I don't blame either one of them (Obama or Clinton) -- they've done their part for their country. They don't need this shit. They have earned the right to do or say what they want. But if we're going back to the 'Obama and Hillary are secretly puppet-masters of everything' then it might as well be true. Obama and Hillary coaching the next generation of Dems - Harris, etc... that actually sounds amazing to me. Bring it on. Welcome back.
But you can't give Trump his screeching-point back and then disappear into the background again.
posted by ctmf at 9:27 AM on September 4, 2017 [23 favorites]
Nnnnnnnyeah, no, ugh. I see the line of thinking there and it's not unreasonable, but I think that's the only BAD play. Obama and Clinton disappearing deprives Trump of the boogeyman he likes to use CONSTANTLY. They've been gone so long now he's having to give that up as looking too ridiculous even for him (which has to be ridiculous indeed). Making any overt act of involvement takes us back to square one in that regard. The options are 'all out' or 'all the fuck in with hiking boots on and camping gear to stay as long as it takes.'
I don't blame either one of them (Obama or Clinton) -- they've done their part for their country. They don't need this shit. They have earned the right to do or say what they want. But if we're going back to the 'Obama and Hillary are secretly puppet-masters of everything' then it might as well be true. Obama and Hillary coaching the next generation of Dems - Harris, etc... that actually sounds amazing to me. Bring it on. Welcome back.
But you can't give Trump his screeching-point back and then disappear into the background again.
posted by ctmf at 9:27 AM on September 4, 2017 [23 favorites]
How is anarchy "the left?" Every article and interview I've read has stated that antifa is not really associated with a political wing and that most of them lean more towards anarchy than socialism.
Philosophically, anarchists and anarcho-libertarians are to the left of communists, who are left of socialists and social democrats. Trad Marxism predicts or advocates the eventual withering away of the state into a condition of anarchy, so anarchists are kind of the ultimate leftists.
Anarchism doesn't advocate in favor of chaos; it advocates minimal state control of individuals' lives and choices (insofar as they don't impinge on other individual or community rights) and tends to favor localized social structures/communities and government over centralized federal government. Whereas right libertarianism tends to see the sole purpose of the state as protecting individual property rights, left libertarians tend to see its primary function as the defense of individual equality against oppression or the tyranny of the majority and the protection of the commons.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:41 AM on September 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
Philosophically, anarchists and anarcho-libertarians are to the left of communists, who are left of socialists and social democrats. Trad Marxism predicts or advocates the eventual withering away of the state into a condition of anarchy, so anarchists are kind of the ultimate leftists.
Anarchism doesn't advocate in favor of chaos; it advocates minimal state control of individuals' lives and choices (insofar as they don't impinge on other individual or community rights) and tends to favor localized social structures/communities and government over centralized federal government. Whereas right libertarianism tends to see the sole purpose of the state as protecting individual property rights, left libertarians tend to see its primary function as the defense of individual equality against oppression or the tyranny of the majority and the protection of the commons.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:41 AM on September 4, 2017 [13 favorites]
FYI, we have finally poisoned alt-right enough that many of them don't even want to use it anymore. So when you see #NewRight, know that it's just a paint job on a Nazi.
At this rate, we'll be able to replace all the lost coal jobs with Nazi rebranding consultants.
posted by Behemoth at 9:42 AM on September 4, 2017 [15 favorites]
At this rate, we'll be able to replace all the lost coal jobs with Nazi rebranding consultants.
posted by Behemoth at 9:42 AM on September 4, 2017 [15 favorites]
Obama/Clinton 2020: "all the fuck in, motherfuckers"
posted by ctmf at 9:43 AM on September 4, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by ctmf at 9:43 AM on September 4, 2017 [24 favorites]
Anarchism doesn't advocate in favor of chaos; it advocates minimal state control of individuals' lives and choices (insofar as they don't impinge on other individual or community rights) and tends to favor localized social structures/communities and government over centralized federal government.I'm quite familiar with the apocalyptic fantasy land they think can exist. I'm glad antifa is around and doing their thing, but I don't find it at all shocking when people in government condemn political violence. I don't necessarily agree, but I also don't care or think it matters. All kinds of Republicans publicly condemn racism but somehow their party magically appeals to racists.
posted by xyzzy at 9:54 AM on September 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm quite familiar with the apocalyptic fantasy land they think can exist.
If you know, then don't ask. This thread has plenty of room for good faith explanations, but honestly neither space nor energy for "Other Leftists: Why I Think They Suck."
posted by corb at 10:12 AM on September 4, 2017 [18 favorites]
If you know, then don't ask. This thread has plenty of room for good faith explanations, but honestly neither space nor energy for "Other Leftists: Why I Think They Suck."
posted by corb at 10:12 AM on September 4, 2017 [18 favorites]
All kinds of Republicans publicly condemn racism
No they don't.
Not modern ones, any. Maybe some of the oldsters would, but you'd be hard pressed to find any strong condemnations from any that are politically active and not on the verge of retirement or death. It's entirely their thing now.
posted by Artw at 10:16 AM on September 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
No they don't.
Not modern ones, any. Maybe some of the oldsters would, but you'd be hard pressed to find any strong condemnations from any that are politically active and not on the verge of retirement or death. It's entirely their thing now.
posted by Artw at 10:16 AM on September 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
So anyway, just hitting the point in October where the Tsar abdicates. I'm sure things will work out fine.
posted by Artw at 10:18 AM on September 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:18 AM on September 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
This thread has plenty of room for good faith explanations, but honestly neither space nor energy for "Other Leftists: Why I Think They Suck."Good thing I wasn't doing that, then.
posted by xyzzy at 10:21 AM on September 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Every Elected Republican after Charlottesville: "Racism is bad, mmkay. But not these specific Nazi racists that support my party and voted for me. No comment on them. Just racism as a concept. Definitely bad. Really, really bad. Now can we get back to passing voter ID laws?"
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:22 AM on September 4, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:22 AM on September 4, 2017 [15 favorites]
(Working on a new thread, since we're well past 2k comments...)
posted by darkstar at 10:23 AM on September 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by darkstar at 10:23 AM on September 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
I don't find it at all shocking when people in government condemn political violence.
Well of course not, but property destruction and political violence are tactics, not an ideology.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:27 AM on September 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Well of course not, but property destruction and political violence are tactics, not an ideology.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:27 AM on September 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
> So anyway, just hitting the point in October where the Tsar abdicates. I'm sure things will work out fine.
ISTR back in a January thread I also put a cake-hat down on a major financial market collapse for October.
Which I'll still back, no matter how many muffins of interest there will be by now.
posted by Buntix at 10:38 AM on September 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
ISTR back in a January thread I also put a cake-hat down on a major financial market collapse for October.
Which I'll still back, no matter how many muffins of interest there will be by now.
posted by Buntix at 10:38 AM on September 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
ISTR back in a January thread I also put a cake-hat down on a major financial market collapse for October.
Now there's a sentence that would make no sense to someone with a time machine from 1990. Thread.. Cake-hat down... ?
posted by ctmf at 10:42 AM on September 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
Now there's a sentence that would make no sense to someone with a time machine from 1990. Thread.. Cake-hat down... ?
posted by ctmf at 10:42 AM on September 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
Usenet had threads. It might even have been the ur-thread maker.
posted by Yowser at 10:56 AM on September 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 10:56 AM on September 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
NEW MEGATHREAD/MAGATHREAD ---->
NEW MEGATHREAD/MAGATHREAD ---->
NEW MEGATHREAD/MAGATHREAD ---->
Aroo!
posted by darkstar at 11:00 AM on September 4, 2017 [16 favorites]
NEW MEGATHREAD/MAGATHREAD ---->
NEW MEGATHREAD/MAGATHREAD ---->
Aroo!
posted by darkstar at 11:00 AM on September 4, 2017 [16 favorites]
Twirling twirling towards the new thread...
posted by bardophile at 11:03 AM on September 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by bardophile at 11:03 AM on September 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
Good. The twirling was making me dizzy(er).
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:10 AM on September 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:10 AM on September 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
Less of a metaphor and more of a time marker for when things start to go completely to shit between the liberals and various types of socialists.
posted by Artw at 11:10 AM on September 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 11:10 AM on September 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Thanks but I can't eat photons, especially if they contain gluten or dairy products.
posted by Coventry at 11:21 AM on September 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Coventry at 11:21 AM on September 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
Cookies? How about pizza? 🍕🍕 (with or without 🍍 ) or any other Whelk-approved sandwich-related nummies... ( 🍔 🌭 🥙 🌮 🌯 and especially the frighteningly trendy avocado toast 🥑🍞 )
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:28 AM on September 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:28 AM on September 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
Two stories about the Dem's need to drop the bullshit and fight back.
I have a conversation with a writer friend in the late 80's. We talk about how the Republican could maintain control over Presidency and houses. He mentions that the Republicans have a national grass roots fundraising network. If a pro-life supporter in California finds out about a pro-life congressman from Alabama needs money for the campaign, she immediately cuts him a check to support him. My friend doesn't need to convince me as I saw my mother constantly do this religiously as I was growing up. (She being the president of the county "Birthright", and influenced by Phyllis Schlafly, Human Events (the go-to to find congressmen and senators in trouble)and National Review. She and the members of her group supports "pro-life candidates" throughout the country. My friend believed that for Democrats this network was non-existent and donations were kept local
I believe that political beliefs, ideologies and responses remain generational. So there have been different variations of the same response, at minimum, since WW2 (If I use my mother and family as a barometer)
The second story may be apocryphal. A woman told me a story once about a male Texan being brought to trial for shooting and killing a man. He was prosecuted and the jury found him guilty. The judge Then let him off. When the local paper afterwards asked him why he did this the judge responded, "because the guy needed shooting"
Now, "on the surface" this may be an "Eastwood" way of solving the problem. What I heard in the context of the larger story was that sometimes you've got to punch the mother f*cker the face, without shame, and show some authority.
posted by goalyeehah at 11:46 AM on September 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
I have a conversation with a writer friend in the late 80's. We talk about how the Republican could maintain control over Presidency and houses. He mentions that the Republicans have a national grass roots fundraising network. If a pro-life supporter in California finds out about a pro-life congressman from Alabama needs money for the campaign, she immediately cuts him a check to support him. My friend doesn't need to convince me as I saw my mother constantly do this religiously as I was growing up. (She being the president of the county "Birthright", and influenced by Phyllis Schlafly, Human Events (the go-to to find congressmen and senators in trouble)and National Review. She and the members of her group supports "pro-life candidates" throughout the country. My friend believed that for Democrats this network was non-existent and donations were kept local
I believe that political beliefs, ideologies and responses remain generational. So there have been different variations of the same response, at minimum, since WW2 (If I use my mother and family as a barometer)
The second story may be apocryphal. A woman told me a story once about a male Texan being brought to trial for shooting and killing a man. He was prosecuted and the jury found him guilty. The judge Then let him off. When the local paper afterwards asked him why he did this the judge responded, "because the guy needed shooting"
Now, "on the surface" this may be an "Eastwood" way of solving the problem. What I heard in the context of the larger story was that sometimes you've got to punch the mother f*cker the face, without shame, and show some authority.
posted by goalyeehah at 11:46 AM on September 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
So anyway, just hitting the point in October where the Tsar abdicates. I'm sure things will work out fine.
FYI, the Tsar abdicated in February 1917, then there was the ill-fated Provisional Government in Russia until the Bolshevik Revolution in October 1917.
posted by dhens at 1:22 PM on September 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
FYI, the Tsar abdicated in February 1917, then there was the ill-fated Provisional Government in Russia until the Bolshevik Revolution in October 1917.
posted by dhens at 1:22 PM on September 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
Tag yourselves and others, the DNC absolutely gets to be the Dumas.
posted by Artw at 1:53 PM on September 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 1:53 PM on September 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
or, ya know, toss the fucker alive into a running wood chipper.
But that's my point. We could do that today and it would still take a long time to heal. Just because the hate and anger are justified doesn't mean it's still not toxic.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:00 PM on September 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
But that's my point. We could do that today and it would still take a long time to heal. Just because the hate and anger are justified doesn't mean it's still not toxic.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:00 PM on September 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
>Tag yourselves and others, the DNC absolutely gets to be the Dumas.
I'd say I'm Bogdanov but Kim Stanley Robinson's already tagged himself as him.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:13 PM on September 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'd say I'm Bogdanov but Kim Stanley Robinson's already tagged himself as him.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:13 PM on September 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Really I'm probably just some shit-ass British diplomat moaning about everything.
posted by Artw at 4:28 PM on September 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 4:28 PM on September 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
I know this thread is done, I never make it to the end to be able to comment. I will do it anyway.
We all know this undocumented workers thing is a scam. If the powers that be actually cared they would be prosecuting the employers. People wouldn't be coming if there weren't companies that hire them.
posted by Belle O'Cosity at 11:04 AM on September 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
We all know this undocumented workers thing is a scam. If the powers that be actually cared they would be prosecuting the employers. People wouldn't be coming if there weren't companies that hire them.
posted by Belle O'Cosity at 11:04 AM on September 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
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posted by Behemoth at 6:58 PM on August 27, 2017 [38 favorites]