“'BattleTech' is the rare tactics game that makes attrition a tool,”
April 27, 2018 3:36 PM Subscribe
'BattleTech' Revives the Classic Mech Franchise in All Its Grueling Glory [Waypoint] “I’m talking about love here, and what I love about BattleTech is that it’s a game you feel in your gut, where you help topple a totalitarian regime by leaving a trail of broken and twisted mechs, as well as their dead pilots, littered across the stars. And they don’t go down easily, like playing pieces that you take off the board after a good move. They walk through showers of missile fire, shudder under the weight of cannon shot, get slashed to pieces by massive laser beams, and finally pummeled into the ground by other mechs’ massive metallic arms. This isn’t XCOM, where the point is to avoid getting hit while you surgically dismantle enemy squads piecemeal. This is war.” [YouTube] [Game Trailer]
• BattleTech: long overdue turn-based spin on a strategy great [Eurogamer]
• BattleTech: long overdue turn-based spin on a strategy great [Eurogamer]
“For a tabletop strategy as revered as BattleTech, it's remarkable that it's taken this long - close to 35 years, by crikey - for a dedicated turn-based video game to emerge. Okay, sure, Westwood's early brace of proto-Dune strategy RPGs came pretty close to transposing the heraldry of wargaming's premier trouser-tank battle system, but it's unfortunate that in the years since, BattleTech has become synonymous with - and subordinate to - the MechWarrior first-person action simulations of the 90s. For strategy fans to have been denied an authentic BattleTech experience for so long is almost as tragic as Robot Jox's continued obscurity relative to the success of Pacific Rim. Still, although it was deemed necessary that some patient fans put their hands in their pockets first, the fact that we now have BattleTech on PC adds weight to the old adage that good things come to those who wait. For a game that has had to make up for lost time and maintain a level of faithfulness, all while attempting to impose some authority on modern genre champions like the XCOM series, developer Harebrained Schemes has more than enough reason to be proud. This BattleTech is as authentic a recreation of the tabletop classic as you could hope for.”• Mechs and minions [Destructoid]
“There's a lovely dance of destruction going on at all times. Cameras will dynamically change to show mechs running up and socking robot limbs off, and the baked-in lore of these mechs being semi-shoddy only helps. These things have character, like the Blackjack, whose limbs kind of flop around as it runs. You'll also tango with lesser creations like tanks, which you'll gloriously stomp with your mech feet. BattleTech is simmy, too. There's menus upon menus as you make your way across the galaxy. The idea is that you're slowly building up your mercenary force and dealing with issues both petty and serious. Beyond a full campaign, skirmish mode is likely where you're going to be spending most of your time, with the option to pit light and heavy mechs against each other with different styles of play, as well as customizable maps and seasons. Multiplayer is also in, but requires a Paradox account -- I was also unable to test it out for the purposes of this review. If you're into tweaks BattleTech doesn't really have a full mod suite on-demand, but there are a decent amount of options. You can turn off in-mission cinematics entirely (or just enemy animations). You also have near-complete control of the camera, as well as resolution support for up to 4K, full keybinding, and 14 different advanced video toggles. In my experience BattleTech is also well-optimized. I never encountered a crash or hiccup.”• BattleTech raises the bar for storytelling in a turn-based strategy game [Polygon]
“Turn-based strategy titles can suffer from a lack of heart. What little narrative players are given is, more often than not, just a pretense to get a bunch of units on screen and make stuff blow up. Not so with BattleTech, the latest title from Harebrained Schemes. That game, out today for Windows and Mac, is a step forward in terms of storytelling. Shakespeare it ain’t, but BattleTech is nonetheless a surprisingly emotional journey, a tale filled with betrayal, revenge and redemption. It’s the kind of story that could only be told from inside the 30-year-old BattleTech universe, and it has the gameplay chops to back it up. First, a bit of clarification. This isn’t the only video game set in the BattleTech universe that’s coming out this year. The other is called MechWarrior 5: Mercenaries, which is being built by Piranha Games. It’s a first-person, simulation-style experience that will put players at the controls of the universe’s iconic BattleMechs, giant walking war machines. BattleTech is a completely different experience made by a different company. It’s a turn-based game, played from the third-person perspective, that puts players in command of an entire squad — called a lance — of four heavily armed ’Mechs at one time. Developer Harebrained Schemes was founded in 2011 by BattleTech universe co-creator Jordan Weisman and game designer Mitch Gitelman.”• 'I like almost everything BattleTech does, but not so much how it does it.' [Rock Paper Shotgun]
“BattleTech feels so functional in all these regards, going through the motions turn after glacial turn, and particularly failing in the matter of making enemies’ turns fast, vibrant and scary. My new mouse has already gained grey-brown stains where I’ve spent the past few days impatiently drumming my fingers upon it while I watch and wait and wait and wait for the fleeting opportunity to move a small distance, then shoot with almost invisible effect again. Even the user interface feels flabby. Essential concepts are badly-conveyed by the tutorial, and the screen is drowning in arrows, meters and icons. I welcome complexity and variety, and mech-specific concepts like managing your tankbots’ heat or trying to carve away specific parts of your enemies appeal deeply, but here it’s poorly-taught and clumsily-presented. ‘Slog’ is the word that keeps coming to mind about BattleTech – even sussing out what’s going to happen when you move there or shoot that lacks the necessary at-a-glance ease. It’s not impenetrable: it’s just a slog.”• Massive melees made manageable [PC Gamer]
“Harebrained Schemes has taken the hard sci-fi tabletop game (best known to PC players as the basis of the MechWarrior series) and married it to the XCOM formula in a way that brings out the best qualities of both. You field a lance of up to four bipedal battlemechs in open-ended, turn-based combat encounters that cover swathes of open terrain. Unlike many of its tactical peers, BattleTech doesn't use a grid—this is a far more granular wargame than most, asking you to pay attention to not just the position of each mech but also its degree of rotation, its speed, and its relationship with its environment. [...] The UI has so much information to impart that it can initially seem a little overwhelming, but with time and greater fluency I came to appreciate how much it manages to express with relatively few elements. BattleTech has no undo function for a turn gone awry, so it's vital to know exactly where your mechs will end up after a move, what they'll be able to see, and who can see them—the UI achieves this. There's plenty of detail to dig into, too—while initially you might see a red signature on the long-range scanners and not know what to do about it, with more experience you'll learn to pay attention to the tonnage of the incoming foe, weigh this against your understanding of the various mech types, and plan accordingly.”• Exciting strategic decisions and a compelling story are held back by RNG aiming. [IGN]
“BattleTech is a slow-paced game across the board. It takes a long time to travel to missions, to wait for mech alterations, to heal injured mechwarriors, to watch your mechs walk across the field, to deal that last point of damage to an enemy, to load between literally any screen and the next, and so much more. I can appreciate a thoughtful strategy sim – not every game needs to be constant action – but if it didn’t take so long to do literally everything, the idea of playing more frequently would probably be less daunting to me than it is. BattleTech is full of other rough edges, too, like the dynamic battle camera that takes over during an attack. It can create some cool cinematic moments, but your view will instead often be completely obscured by terrain, or the camera will take so long to pan over to where the damage is being dealt that you miss the result entirely and have no way to see exactly what happened because there’s no log and no way to replay a turn. The worst of the issues I saw, however, was when the AI-controlled allies I was supposed to protect in an escort mission glitched out. Despite clearing every enemy and trying my hardest to guide them, they refused to move forward and I was forced to forfeit the mission altogether. Even though problems that serious were rare, the constant slew of camera issues, loading screen lockups, and missed damage results felt shockingly common and made BattleTech seem surprisingly unpolished.”
I backed the kickstarter for this and have gotten my key - I’m probably going to wait for a few patches to jump in (from above!).
posted by Celsius1414 at 3:45 PM on April 27, 2018
posted by Celsius1414 at 3:45 PM on April 27, 2018
ugh, I'm not going to be able to avoid this any longer am I? I'm going to have to break down and spend a few hundred hours playing this aren't I?
posted by GuyZero at 3:46 PM on April 27, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by GuyZero at 3:46 PM on April 27, 2018 [6 favorites]
Campaign mode won't load for me. Skirmish works fine, but campaign is only an endless load screen with game lore flashing in the upper left while nothing else happens. Clearly I am not the only one with this problem, but I'm not finding any answers.
Dear new game: I want to love you, but you're not helping.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:50 PM on April 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
Dear new game: I want to love you, but you're not helping.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:50 PM on April 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
It is so. Good. There is finally a video game that captures the feel of BattleTech the board game, but without all the looking up tables and hand-calculating to-hit targets for every move, so you can play a mission in 45 minutes instead of four hours.
posted by JDHarper at 4:01 PM on April 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by JDHarper at 4:01 PM on April 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
scaryblackdeath, try adjusting your screen resolution. I had the same problem when I first tried to start the campaign on launch day, and what was happening was the game wasn't properly detecting my monitor dimensions as 2560 x 1080 and instead was running at some lower resolution like 1280 x 720 and thus pushing UI elements off the bottom of the screen. Once the game is ready there should be a start or continue (I forget exactly how they labeled it) button in the bottom-center of your screen.
It's a Unity thing, apparently. The Unity engine doesn't seem to love ultrawide monitors and some others. I've just been playing it at 1920 x 1080 with black bars on the side and while I wish it used all my screen real-estate it's fun enough for me that I forgot about it by Wednesday.
posted by glonous keming at 4:02 PM on April 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
It's a Unity thing, apparently. The Unity engine doesn't seem to love ultrawide monitors and some others. I've just been playing it at 1920 x 1080 with black bars on the side and while I wish it used all my screen real-estate it's fun enough for me that I forgot about it by Wednesday.
posted by glonous keming at 4:02 PM on April 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
Steam Store sez I racked up a mere 260 hours for XCOM2 so... ugh. This is going to be a second full-time summer job for me.
I sort of hope this game stinks* so I can see my family again eventually.
* I do not hope the game stinks.
posted by GuyZero at 4:06 PM on April 27, 2018 [5 favorites]
I sort of hope this game stinks* so I can see my family again eventually.
* I do not hope the game stinks.
posted by GuyZero at 4:06 PM on April 27, 2018 [5 favorites]
They have BattleTech on the computer now?
posted by mobunited at 4:07 PM on April 27, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by mobunited at 4:07 PM on April 27, 2018 [7 favorites]
Fantastic game. It really hits the giant fighting robots spot.
Steam Store sez I racked up a mere 260 hours for XCOM2
Over 560 hours for me. So yeah, I getcha.
posted by Splunge at 4:12 PM on April 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
Steam Store sez I racked up a mere 260 hours for XCOM2
Over 560 hours for me. So yeah, I getcha.
posted by Splunge at 4:12 PM on April 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
I haven't picked this up yet, but I'm expecting great things after the job these guys did with Shadowrun. :)
posted by mordax at 4:12 PM on April 27, 2018
posted by mordax at 4:12 PM on April 27, 2018
I'm not saying I quit my job to play Battletech this week, but I did quit my job Tuesday morning and I have been playing Battletech all week.
posted by glonous keming at 4:13 PM on April 27, 2018 [13 favorites]
posted by glonous keming at 4:13 PM on April 27, 2018 [13 favorites]
I redeemed my key, but I remember how the Backer Beta had problems running on my little Mac Mini. Still, I'm glad to finally see this product come to fruition.
I loved the concept behind MechWarrior 2: Mercenaries, but mostly because we played BattleTech with a similar premise in my tabletop days. I'm eager to see how this version portrays mercenary management.
posted by CancerMan at 4:17 PM on April 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
I loved the concept behind MechWarrior 2: Mercenaries, but mostly because we played BattleTech with a similar premise in my tabletop days. I'm eager to see how this version portrays mercenary management.
posted by CancerMan at 4:17 PM on April 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
Man, as a totally blind gamer I wish this game were accessible to me, the premise sounds awesome. Sadly, anything Unity-adjacent is pretty much guaranteed to not be so.
posted by Alensin at 4:20 PM on April 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Alensin at 4:20 PM on April 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
Man, as a totally blind gamer I wish this game were accessible to me, the premise sounds awesome. Sadly, anything Unity-adjacent is pretty much guaranteed to not be so.
Have you looked into MegaMek? It's basically a freeware java version of Battletech; I'm not sure if it's more accessible, but it might be worth checking out.
posted by curious nu at 4:22 PM on April 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
Have you looked into MegaMek? It's basically a freeware java version of Battletech; I'm not sure if it's more accessible, but it might be worth checking out.
posted by curious nu at 4:22 PM on April 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
I'm not sure this is going to run on my Macbook, but I'm waiting til after this term is over (and I'm graduated) before snagging it.
I've read almost nothing about the game -- can I declare for the Free Worlds League? House Marik or bust, y'all can keep your Confederations and Combines and whatever nonsense is going on with Davion-Steiner depending on the year.
posted by curious nu at 4:24 PM on April 27, 2018 [3 favorites]
I've read almost nothing about the game -- can I declare for the Free Worlds League? House Marik or bust, y'all can keep your Confederations and Combines and whatever nonsense is going on with Davion-Steiner depending on the year.
posted by curious nu at 4:24 PM on April 27, 2018 [3 favorites]
Sadly, I did poke around with Megamek, there was one abortive attempt to make it accessible a few years back, but that developer has since left the project, apparently. I don't think anything else is likely to get off the ground.
posted by Alensin at 4:27 PM on April 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Alensin at 4:27 PM on April 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
I was hanging back due to RPS’s initial verdict. But you’re making me hot for some stompy mech action. I want a House Kurita Sword of Light campaign in the worst way. Rig of choice.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 4:28 PM on April 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 4:28 PM on April 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
Oh damn, it looks like the last Harmony Gold/Unseen lawsuit was dismissed with prejudice.
posted by curious nu at 4:38 PM on April 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by curious nu at 4:38 PM on April 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
If you enjoy this game, and especially if you enjoy the fact that the character creator offers "they/them" as a choice of pronouns, be sure to let Harebrained Schemes (the devs) know. The usual GG crowd are I guess terribly offended by this completely optional thing and are having a boycott or something.
Not that I'm worried a lot of these fools were going to buy the game and now aren't, but encouraging devs to have more robust character creation like this is definitely a good thing.
posted by subocoyne at 4:51 PM on April 27, 2018 [8 favorites]
Not that I'm worried a lot of these fools were going to buy the game and now aren't, but encouraging devs to have more robust character creation like this is definitely a good thing.
posted by subocoyne at 4:51 PM on April 27, 2018 [8 favorites]
Design Lead, Kiva Maginn is trans. Buy the damn game.
posted by Splunge at 5:05 PM on April 27, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by Splunge at 5:05 PM on April 27, 2018 [7 favorites]
House Steiner 4 Life.*
*Possibly a short one
posted by drezdn at 5:12 PM on April 27, 2018 [5 favorites]
*Possibly a short one
posted by drezdn at 5:12 PM on April 27, 2018 [5 favorites]
Design Lead, Kiva Maginn is trans. Buy the damn game.
Indeed, I was impressed in the character creation as you can choose HE, SHE, or THEY. A simple enough thing to add into your game and yet so many game designers/developers choose not to.
posted by Fizz at 5:22 PM on April 27, 2018 [4 favorites]
Indeed, I was impressed in the character creation as you can choose HE, SHE, or THEY. A simple enough thing to add into your game and yet so many game designers/developers choose not to.
posted by Fizz at 5:22 PM on April 27, 2018 [4 favorites]
I spent a lot of time with the Battletech tabletop game as a teen. My friends and I still refer to it as "Stupid Dune." I loved it then, but I can't recommend it. It's SUPER fussy; calculating which missile hit where, tracking torso facing vs. leg facing vs. movement speed over land vs. wooded areas vs. water. It's a lot.
I think in a way the hyper-detailed nature of the rules, and the plodding pace of the game, actually kind of expresses the experience of driving a ponderous, complicated machine in a way that I like, but devours time and attention in a way I can't spare anymore. They did a HeroClix-type version, but it was really just a reskin of a different game. It was easy to play but lacked character.
All that is to say, what I have really always wanted is for all those vital but obnoxious rules to be automated into a video game so I could make the fun tactical/strategic decisions about my bespoke lumbering killbots without having to fill out little scantron dots on bits of binder paper.
AND it's the folks who did the (pretty great) Shadowrun games? Sold.
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 5:26 PM on April 27, 2018 [6 favorites]
I think in a way the hyper-detailed nature of the rules, and the plodding pace of the game, actually kind of expresses the experience of driving a ponderous, complicated machine in a way that I like, but devours time and attention in a way I can't spare anymore. They did a HeroClix-type version, but it was really just a reskin of a different game. It was easy to play but lacked character.
All that is to say, what I have really always wanted is for all those vital but obnoxious rules to be automated into a video game so I could make the fun tactical/strategic decisions about my bespoke lumbering killbots without having to fill out little scantron dots on bits of binder paper.
AND it's the folks who did the (pretty great) Shadowrun games? Sold.
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 5:26 PM on April 27, 2018 [6 favorites]
I think I'm going to need a new computer.
posted by rodlymight at 5:47 PM on April 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by rodlymight at 5:47 PM on April 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
I played the tabletop game a few times, but spent easily several hundred hours over the years playing multiplayer BattleTech MUSEs/MUXes. They were pretty amazing--ASCII graphics, but once you learned the low-fi UI you could find yourself completely immersed in the game world. They translated the tabletop rules into a realtime format in an obsessively faithful way that also gave you these heartpounding, adrenaline-fueled gameplay moments. 20 vs. 20 battles with mechs and tanks, with terrains, mountains, water, forests, plains... I miss it!
I still remember a battle where I was the last mech standing on my team. I hid in deep water--the only way anyone could hit me was by jumping in right next to me, at which point I would instantly alpha-strike them with my full complement of energy weapons--having all my heat sinks immersed in water kept me cool enough to do that over and over, and all I had to do was cause a breach in their armor for the water to rush in and destroy whatever parts of their mech I hit.
I remember chasing mechs through forest--they used their lasers to ignite fires, generating smoke that obscured them from most of my sensors. I'd switch to seismic and get occasional contacts, enough to see their general location, get close and get a good lock to fire.
Seismic sensors were also nice when driving a missile boat, keeping a hill between you and the enemy but using seismic to launch indirect fire missiles at them.
Fighting high tech level enemies with ECM, and having to use mech hand signals to communicate with teammates while our radios were jammed.
I dug up a log. I think this session is from approx. 1995: https://gist.github.com/wiseman/f2a7a5129480f4d07db14973339ba541
You'll see the UI is primitive, but I assume it's like any other ASCII map-type game you play for long enough--eventually you look at it and see the fleshed out world, Matrix-style.
In the first skirmish, My WHM-7K gets pounded on--an arm is destroyed, I get knocked down, my leg is blown off, and a little Mongoose finishes me off.
In the second skirmish, I get the killing blow on a fearsome Rifleman--my teammate hits him with so much damage he falls over in front of me, and then my giant 85-ton STK-3H kicks him right in the center torso, blowing up his reactor.
posted by jjwiseman at 6:01 PM on April 27, 2018 [11 favorites]
I still remember a battle where I was the last mech standing on my team. I hid in deep water--the only way anyone could hit me was by jumping in right next to me, at which point I would instantly alpha-strike them with my full complement of energy weapons--having all my heat sinks immersed in water kept me cool enough to do that over and over, and all I had to do was cause a breach in their armor for the water to rush in and destroy whatever parts of their mech I hit.
I remember chasing mechs through forest--they used their lasers to ignite fires, generating smoke that obscured them from most of my sensors. I'd switch to seismic and get occasional contacts, enough to see their general location, get close and get a good lock to fire.
Seismic sensors were also nice when driving a missile boat, keeping a hill between you and the enemy but using seismic to launch indirect fire missiles at them.
Fighting high tech level enemies with ECM, and having to use mech hand signals to communicate with teammates while our radios were jammed.
I dug up a log. I think this session is from approx. 1995: https://gist.github.com/wiseman/f2a7a5129480f4d07db14973339ba541
You'll see the UI is primitive, but I assume it's like any other ASCII map-type game you play for long enough--eventually you look at it and see the fleshed out world, Matrix-style.
In the first skirmish, My WHM-7K gets pounded on--an arm is destroyed, I get knocked down, my leg is blown off, and a little Mongoose finishes me off.
In the second skirmish, I get the killing blow on a fearsome Rifleman--my teammate hits him with so much damage he falls over in front of me, and then my giant 85-ton STK-3H kicks him right in the center torso, blowing up his reactor.
posted by jjwiseman at 6:01 PM on April 27, 2018 [11 favorites]
Oh damn, it looks like the last Harmony Gold/Unseen lawsuit was dismissed with prejudice.
...
Ok, listen, the original Battletech Marauder and Phoenix Hawk LAM were about the most blatant theft of designs I've ever seen. But I simply do not know what Harmony Gold was smoking with this one.
posted by tobascodagama at 6:25 PM on April 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
...
Ok, listen, the original Battletech Marauder and Phoenix Hawk LAM were about the most blatant theft of designs I've ever seen. But I simply do not know what Harmony Gold was smoking with this one.
posted by tobascodagama at 6:25 PM on April 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
So I spent money on TWO games I didn't need but am loving the hell out of. Frostpunk and BattleTech. Ugh, my poor wallet, but yay my happy heart.
posted by Fizz at 6:28 PM on April 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Fizz at 6:28 PM on April 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
I'm waiting on the Linux port, but Harebrained Schemes' Shadowrun trilogy got me back into turn-based RPGs in a way that Pillars of Eternity failed for me, and I love my gay (probably) orc brother and my unambiguously bi medic to the end.
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 6:39 PM on April 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 6:39 PM on April 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
So -- are the RPS review's complaints about frustrating dead time misled or overblown? Is it, for example, no worse than Xcom's procedural cutscenes?
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:50 PM on April 27, 2018
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:50 PM on April 27, 2018
Available pronouns include He, She, and They.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 7:19 PM on April 27, 2018
posted by I-Write-Essays at 7:19 PM on April 27, 2018
I've wanted something like this for about 20 years, but I watched some demo footage from earlier this year and it just left me cold. It seemed both so slow and so bland and inexpressive. The thing that stuck out the worst were the unit barks, they really just screamed "This is cookie-cutter" to me.
Then I read the RPS review and I was like Yep, this is intolerable. Alec has now put out two other pieces softening the tone of his original review -- he isn't taking it back, but he is sorta saying that the rewards of the game are worth it. Even in the rather positive third piece, though, he still says he loads Twitter to get through enemy turns.
And I dunno I was just so put off by what I saw.
I know Battletech is not really the same as, like, XCOM. It's got a much more complicated tactical model (especially damage) which seems, like, prima facie interesting. But everything else seems really generic and even unnecessary. Like, XCOM already has "fancy 3D 'cinematic' action that we don't have the budget to smooth the kinks out of" down. And they have more budget! (Probably.)
Sorry for whining. Thing is I kinda want to buy this for myself but it's expensive and I'm worried I'll regret it! But no disrespect if it's working for you, like I said I've wanted something like it for a long time.
posted by grobstein at 7:20 PM on April 27, 2018
Then I read the RPS review and I was like Yep, this is intolerable. Alec has now put out two other pieces softening the tone of his original review -- he isn't taking it back, but he is sorta saying that the rewards of the game are worth it. Even in the rather positive third piece, though, he still says he loads Twitter to get through enemy turns.
And I dunno I was just so put off by what I saw.
I know Battletech is not really the same as, like, XCOM. It's got a much more complicated tactical model (especially damage) which seems, like, prima facie interesting. But everything else seems really generic and even unnecessary. Like, XCOM already has "fancy 3D 'cinematic' action that we don't have the budget to smooth the kinks out of" down. And they have more budget! (Probably.)
Sorry for whining. Thing is I kinda want to buy this for myself but it's expensive and I'm worried I'll regret it! But no disrespect if it's working for you, like I said I've wanted something like it for a long time.
posted by grobstein at 7:20 PM on April 27, 2018
Wait a year or so, and you can probably pick it up in a bundle or on a sale.
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 7:39 PM on April 27, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 7:39 PM on April 27, 2018 [3 favorites]
So I've been really happy at how well it runs on my cheap $99 AMD 2200g's integrated GPU - something in the geometry makes my old iMac's GPU barf and I'm down in the single digits. I'm ambivalent about the game pace - when it works, it's great! When it doesn't, it's sort of a slog in the way XCom2 could be when you spent endless turns sneaking the map.
The UI sorta annoys me - it's hard to tell where your mech can fully move because they don't draw out all the pips until you start randomly gesturing around, and dealing with jumping on top of buildings is _really_ hit and miss. And since you are fully committed to the move once you click it, you can have some hilarious "I meant to get the higher ground, but now I'm just a target against a wall" moments.
It took me far too many hours to figure out what the orange and white angle brackets around targets meant - they're intended to give you a sense of how many of your weapons are in range and how many are in optimum ranges.
The initiative system is both right out of the rulebook and slightly complicated. It is fun reserving a high initiative lightweight mech for the last turn, running in for a sneak attack, then running right back out of danger at the start of the next round. But I'm still not actually 100% certain when any given player/enemy mech moves in a given turn.
It's fun. It's also slow. But it's fun.
posted by Kyol at 7:56 PM on April 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
The UI sorta annoys me - it's hard to tell where your mech can fully move because they don't draw out all the pips until you start randomly gesturing around, and dealing with jumping on top of buildings is _really_ hit and miss. And since you are fully committed to the move once you click it, you can have some hilarious "I meant to get the higher ground, but now I'm just a target against a wall" moments.
It took me far too many hours to figure out what the orange and white angle brackets around targets meant - they're intended to give you a sense of how many of your weapons are in range and how many are in optimum ranges.
The initiative system is both right out of the rulebook and slightly complicated. It is fun reserving a high initiative lightweight mech for the last turn, running in for a sneak attack, then running right back out of danger at the start of the next round. But I'm still not actually 100% certain when any given player/enemy mech moves in a given turn.
It's fun. It's also slow. But it's fun.
posted by Kyol at 7:56 PM on April 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
Hey, jjwiseman, thanks so much for that log. I don't know if any of these games are still around/playable, but I really appreciate the chance to at least get a sense of what is going on, even if I don't understand the ASCII hex display very well. I'll have to go poking around Mud Connector, I guess…
posted by Alensin at 8:04 PM on April 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Alensin at 8:04 PM on April 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
Looks like RPS is walking back some of their criticism.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 8:13 PM on April 27, 2018
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 8:13 PM on April 27, 2018
Rule number 2: watch your heat.
It's an old reference, sir, but the game cred checks out.
I've only ever seen full tabletop BattleTech actually being played as a full large scale battle with more than a few people exactly once, and it was excruciatingly slow but fantastically detailed.
Most of the people I knew who were "in to" BattleTech seemed to paint a whole lot of miniatures and spend a lot of time building up armies and matching sets of miniatures, collecting the game and game books and maps and all of the related stuff - but not actually ever playing much.
Not that this isn't a horrible hobby in itself. Those miniatures were pretty fantastic.
I think it was mainly because it was a huge pain in the ass to find anyone to play a full game outside of a big con or RPG club. There's very few people in this world that have the combination of time, money and attention to detail for deep-sim wargaming like BattleTech.
One of the people I knew growing up that played it had no problems or compunctions about playing BattleTech or other wargames solo, not unlike how chess players can play themselves. I used to know someone who would do stuff like set up a bunch of hex-cell scale terrain map and then recreate and model stuff like famous WW2 tank battles through a game system, and it was actually pretty cool.
For a turn or so. After that I'd get bored, because one turn = one time unit of all assets in play on the field, and in a large WW2 tank battle you're talking hundreds of units being precisely positioned from historical documents and then re-mapped into the given rules of a wargaming system and seeing how it plays out.
Anyway, computerizing a game like this in a way that isn't garbage has been the holy grail of wargamers for, what, 3 decades now?
posted by loquacious at 8:13 PM on April 27, 2018 [7 favorites]
It's an old reference, sir, but the game cred checks out.
I've only ever seen full tabletop BattleTech actually being played as a full large scale battle with more than a few people exactly once, and it was excruciatingly slow but fantastically detailed.
Most of the people I knew who were "in to" BattleTech seemed to paint a whole lot of miniatures and spend a lot of time building up armies and matching sets of miniatures, collecting the game and game books and maps and all of the related stuff - but not actually ever playing much.
Not that this isn't a horrible hobby in itself. Those miniatures were pretty fantastic.
I think it was mainly because it was a huge pain in the ass to find anyone to play a full game outside of a big con or RPG club. There's very few people in this world that have the combination of time, money and attention to detail for deep-sim wargaming like BattleTech.
One of the people I knew growing up that played it had no problems or compunctions about playing BattleTech or other wargames solo, not unlike how chess players can play themselves. I used to know someone who would do stuff like set up a bunch of hex-cell scale terrain map and then recreate and model stuff like famous WW2 tank battles through a game system, and it was actually pretty cool.
For a turn or so. After that I'd get bored, because one turn = one time unit of all assets in play on the field, and in a large WW2 tank battle you're talking hundreds of units being precisely positioned from historical documents and then re-mapped into the given rules of a wargaming system and seeing how it plays out.
Anyway, computerizing a game like this in a way that isn't garbage has been the holy grail of wargamers for, what, 3 decades now?
posted by loquacious at 8:13 PM on April 27, 2018 [7 favorites]
jjwiseman,
That was a trip down memory lane. You are not wrong about being able to “see” the world from all that ASCII.
posted by daq at 8:19 PM on April 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
That was a trip down memory lane. You are not wrong about being able to “see” the world from all that ASCII.
posted by daq at 8:19 PM on April 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
Oh thank the maker that my current laptop can't run this. I have too much work to do!
posted by drewbage1847 at 8:28 PM on April 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by drewbage1847 at 8:28 PM on April 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
But yeah, I dunno, the original RPS reviewer's complaint isn't exactly wrong. For example, when you jump to another system for a contract, golly, you get all the jumpship docking animations and in-system flight animations and everything. Every time! Or if you need to let your mechtech wrench on things after a big fight and you set up a repair bill, eventually all you can do is click on the "run time forward" button until it's done. And there's no "system / contract / discovery / whatever" salve for the time spent twiddling your fingers, it just ticks forward a new day every other second or so.
None of it is individually a dealbreaker, but added together it sort of ends up feeling like there's no respect for the player's time.
posted by Kyol at 8:49 PM on April 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
None of it is individually a dealbreaker, but added together it sort of ends up feeling like there's no respect for the player's time.
posted by Kyol at 8:49 PM on April 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
> Campaign mode won't load for me. Skirmish works fine, but campaign is only an endless load screen with game lore flashing in the upper left while nothing else happens. Clearly I am not the only one with this problem, but I'm not finding any answers.
For anyone having trouble with crashes, there is a beta version available on both Steam and GOG you can try.
posted by papercrane at 8:53 PM on April 27, 2018
For anyone having trouble with crashes, there is a beta version available on both Steam and GOG you can try.
posted by papercrane at 8:53 PM on April 27, 2018
Oh, but all that said, if you're mouse-challenged for whatever reason, it plays pretty remarkably well with a trackpad and keyboard commands. No ridiculous middle/right button drags are required for camera management, it's mostly pointy-clicky-boomy, with the occasional tab and escape to select and reject a solution.
Two aching carpal-tunnel thumbs up.
posted by Kyol at 8:53 PM on April 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
Two aching carpal-tunnel thumbs up.
posted by Kyol at 8:53 PM on April 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
I loved tabletop wargaming as a kid and so this was a no-brainer purchase for me. Some of the repeated animation stuff is pretty slow but they're also kind of immersive in a way (they give space a sense of, well, space) and honestly unless you're playing for hours back-to-back it's not really that noticeable. That said, it's easy to play for hours back-to-back. It's like X-COM 2 in a lot of ways beyond the obvious turn-based strategy element. There's also the outside-combat game of managing mechwarrior progression (RPG-lite), configuring mechs, and keeping your mercenary company in the black. The combat also evolves as you progress; in the beginning you tend to play light-to-medium mechs where your team is more mobile and you just slug away at armor until your enemy goes down. Later on, with heavier mechs come big missile volleys and heavy cannons, so there tend to be a lot more knockdowns. This causes your pilots to become injured more frequently so you have to juggle rotating pilots between the sickbay and active duty.
I've played it every night since Tuesday for a few hours. It's yet to bore me. Definitely worth the $40 I spent on it.
posted by axiom at 9:03 PM on April 27, 2018 [4 favorites]
I've played it every night since Tuesday for a few hours. It's yet to bore me. Definitely worth the $40 I spent on it.
posted by axiom at 9:03 PM on April 27, 2018 [4 favorites]
> GenderNullPointerException:
"Wait a year or so, and you can probably pick it up in a bundle or on a sale."
Hopefully I will have some plastic to buy with by then. No comments on seeing little guy HBS backed by a respectable, non-jerk publisher like Paradox?
posted by Samizdata at 1:48 AM on April 28, 2018
"Wait a year or so, and you can probably pick it up in a bundle or on a sale."
Hopefully I will have some plastic to buy with by then. No comments on seeing little guy HBS backed by a respectable, non-jerk publisher like Paradox?
posted by Samizdata at 1:48 AM on April 28, 2018
The first recognizable-as-a-MMO game I ever played (not counting stuff like tradewars) was Multiplayer Battletech on GEnie in 1991 when I was 16 years old. So this is like coming home. Except my knees and back and hearing and stuff don't work quite as well as in 1991. So it's like coming home in a wheelchair.
Anyway, I made a pretty janky Blackjack by stripping out the AC/2s (despite them being actually useful in the game which is something they never achieved in tabletop) and 2 medium lasers and slapping a big frakkin' AC/20++ on the left arm. Kind of a one trick pony but it was a good trick. I say was because a few missions later a goddamn Griffin DFA'd me and OH LOOK ripped off my left arm in the process. So much for the AC/20++. He might as well have picked it up and beat me to death with it since I took 3 injuries in the process and am spending 51 days in the medbay.
I've got some cool LRM15+ sitting in storage just waiting for Treb or Archer chassis. Sweet sweet long range death. Also I have my favorite mech, the JR7-D, kitted out for ice planets. Some people prefer the JR7-F. The "F" stands for "fuck those people". JR7-D is love, JR7-D is life. He doesn't get run on desert planets, though, since love and life come with a side order of massive heat generation. Instead I have a Firestarter. Except I ripped out the garbage machine guns+ammo and stuck two more flamers on. If I could figure out how I'd stick 10 more on there. Stick some flamers inside the barrels of other flamers if I have to. But I can't, so 6 flamers + 2 med lasers it is.
Also it's 3:00am, and I'm about togo to bed keep playing because unlike in 1991 I don't have to listen to my mom and dad. So there.
posted by Justinian at 3:08 AM on April 28, 2018 [4 favorites]
Anyway, I made a pretty janky Blackjack by stripping out the AC/2s (despite them being actually useful in the game which is something they never achieved in tabletop) and 2 medium lasers and slapping a big frakkin' AC/20++ on the left arm. Kind of a one trick pony but it was a good trick. I say was because a few missions later a goddamn Griffin DFA'd me and OH LOOK ripped off my left arm in the process. So much for the AC/20++. He might as well have picked it up and beat me to death with it since I took 3 injuries in the process and am spending 51 days in the medbay.
I've got some cool LRM15+ sitting in storage just waiting for Treb or Archer chassis. Sweet sweet long range death. Also I have my favorite mech, the JR7-D, kitted out for ice planets. Some people prefer the JR7-F. The "F" stands for "fuck those people". JR7-D is love, JR7-D is life. He doesn't get run on desert planets, though, since love and life come with a side order of massive heat generation. Instead I have a Firestarter. Except I ripped out the garbage machine guns+ammo and stuck two more flamers on. If I could figure out how I'd stick 10 more on there. Stick some flamers inside the barrels of other flamers if I have to. But I can't, so 6 flamers + 2 med lasers it is.
Also it's 3:00am, and I'm about to
posted by Justinian at 3:08 AM on April 28, 2018 [4 favorites]
Indeed, I was impressed in the character creation as you can choose HE, SHE, or THEY. A simple enough thing to add into your game and yet so many game designers/developers choose not to.
I was already predisposed to love this game, but when I selected THEY my heart grew three sizes.
I barely started the campaign and have been skirmishing a bit, getting a better feel for the tactics. It's easy to do stupid things. Evasion is extremely important, and focusing fire on weak spots, not wasting ammo on unlikely shots unless you're peeling evasion points off a target, and almost never forgoing a more defensive play in favor of "just one last shot that will finish that enemy off" because it won't, and because it bears repeating: don't take tempting shots with your scouts unless you have managed initiative so you can GTFO after firing, and not overheating, not getting too far from water if you're in a hot/airless biome, not falling, not getting your head caved in by a swarm of LRMs, not splitting your lance, never making a deal with a dragon...
posted by Foosnark at 5:38 AM on April 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
I was already predisposed to love this game, but when I selected THEY my heart grew three sizes.
I barely started the campaign and have been skirmishing a bit, getting a better feel for the tactics. It's easy to do stupid things. Evasion is extremely important, and focusing fire on weak spots, not wasting ammo on unlikely shots unless you're peeling evasion points off a target, and almost never forgoing a more defensive play in favor of "just one last shot that will finish that enemy off" because it won't, and because it bears repeating: don't take tempting shots with your scouts unless you have managed initiative so you can GTFO after firing, and not overheating, not getting too far from water if you're in a hot/airless biome, not falling, not getting your head caved in by a swarm of LRMs, not splitting your lance, never making a deal with a dragon...
posted by Foosnark at 5:38 AM on April 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
Oh damn, it looks like the last Harmony Gold/Unseen lawsuit was dismissed with prejudice.
Ok, listen, the original Battletech Marauder and Phoenix Hawk LAM were about the most blatant theft of designs I've ever seen. But I simply do not know what Harmony Gold was smoking with this one.
The lawsuit against HBS was dismissed. The larger one against PGI (the guys behind the Battletech MMO, and who made the art assets used to make the mechs in this new game) still continues.
As for the apparent blatant theft, what actually happened was that FASA (the guys who invented Battletech back in '84) thought they had licensed the rights to the images in good faith. But it turns out that the guys who sold them the rights weren't legally able to do that, leading to a couple of decades of back and forth lawsuits between Harmony Gold and anyone coming into contact with the Battletech IP. Sadly, as yet even more recent lawsuits have seemingly shown, it's looking like HG never had the rights to police these images in the first place, but this hasn't been officially determined in the US yet (the current round of lawsuits will do just that, one way or the other).
As for the video game itself, it looks like immense amounts of fun, but bear in mind that as a brand-new release there's been no patches and only one set of video card drivers (for Nvidia; nothing for AMD yet). I suspect you'll be seeing a whole lot of bugfixing and quality of life improvements in the next month or so.
posted by Palindromedary at 7:20 AM on April 28, 2018
Ok, listen, the original Battletech Marauder and Phoenix Hawk LAM were about the most blatant theft of designs I've ever seen. But I simply do not know what Harmony Gold was smoking with this one.
The lawsuit against HBS was dismissed. The larger one against PGI (the guys behind the Battletech MMO, and who made the art assets used to make the mechs in this new game) still continues.
As for the apparent blatant theft, what actually happened was that FASA (the guys who invented Battletech back in '84) thought they had licensed the rights to the images in good faith. But it turns out that the guys who sold them the rights weren't legally able to do that, leading to a couple of decades of back and forth lawsuits between Harmony Gold and anyone coming into contact with the Battletech IP. Sadly, as yet even more recent lawsuits have seemingly shown, it's looking like HG never had the rights to police these images in the first place, but this hasn't been officially determined in the US yet (the current round of lawsuits will do just that, one way or the other).
As for the video game itself, it looks like immense amounts of fun, but bear in mind that as a brand-new release there's been no patches and only one set of video card drivers (for Nvidia; nothing for AMD yet). I suspect you'll be seeing a whole lot of bugfixing and quality of life improvements in the next month or so.
posted by Palindromedary at 7:20 AM on April 28, 2018
So much online discussion about how "slow" this game is. It doesn't seem any slower or faster than other turn based combat games. XCOM2 is a reference many have made and maybe I'm just a more patient gamer, but I didn't find XCOM2 to be slow and the same goes for BattleTech.
Then again, I'm the type of gamer that enjoys story, so cut-scenes breaking up the combat are always something I look forward to, I'm all about that world-building.
posted by Fizz at 7:29 AM on April 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
Then again, I'm the type of gamer that enjoys story, so cut-scenes breaking up the combat are always something I look forward to, I'm all about that world-building.
posted by Fizz at 7:29 AM on April 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
One time when I was in middle school, a friend and I played Battletech in a demo at Gen Con. My friend decided his mechs were going to defect to the clans and opened up on me... To impress a girl!
There's no way the clans would have accepted him. SMH.
posted by drezdn at 7:53 AM on April 28, 2018 [3 favorites]
There's no way the clans would have accepted him. SMH.
posted by drezdn at 7:53 AM on April 28, 2018 [3 favorites]
Ahhh! This led me to remember the MechWarrior 2 soundtrack, a hugely influential album for me. I had that CD in my library as recently as 5 years ago, when I basically lost my whole CD library. But, man, that is a fantastic soundtrack. I'm re-listening to it right now and it is still so good.
Excited about this BattleTech game. I will most certainly be checking it out, and I'm especially excited to listen to it's soundtrack.
posted by weed donkey at 8:59 AM on April 28, 2018 [5 favorites]
Excited about this BattleTech game. I will most certainly be checking it out, and I'm especially excited to listen to it's soundtrack.
posted by weed donkey at 8:59 AM on April 28, 2018 [5 favorites]
I used to love to play Quake with the MWII CD in the drive because it would play the tracks as the soundtrack. Love ya' Trent but yours isn't the soundtrack I remember
posted by Space Coyote at 1:49 PM on April 28, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Space Coyote at 1:49 PM on April 28, 2018 [3 favorites]
Some tweaks via Reddit to address the speed - as per usual back up all relevant files, use at own risk etc.
Remove pause tweak
The pointless delays between things was put in on purpose by the developers (to make room for unit barks), but it’s a 30 second fix to remove. It both speeds up the game massively and makes for a smoother experience:
– Go to:
Steam folder\steamapps\common\BATTLETECH\BattleTech_Data\StreamingAssets\data\constants
– Change the following lines in “audioconstants.json” so that they look like this:
“AttackPreFireDuration” : 0,
“AttackAfterFireDelay” : 0,
“AttackAfterFireDuration” : 0,
“AttackAfterCompletionDuration” : 0
“audioFadeDuration” : 0,
Debug speed tweak
Paste the text below into a text file, and save it with the .reg extension. Then double-click it. Use notepad or a text editor to avoid any problems.
Launch your mission and press Ctrl-LeftShift-minus sign combination. That's speed toggle.
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Harebrained Schemes\BATTLETECH]
"last_debug_state_h176629417"=dword:00000001
posted by Sebmojo at 5:05 PM on April 28, 2018 [6 favorites]
Remove pause tweak
The pointless delays between things was put in on purpose by the developers (to make room for unit barks), but it’s a 30 second fix to remove. It both speeds up the game massively and makes for a smoother experience:
– Go to:
Steam folder\steamapps\common\BATTLETECH\BattleTech_Data\StreamingAssets\data\constants
– Change the following lines in “audioconstants.json” so that they look like this:
“AttackPreFireDuration” : 0,
“AttackAfterFireDelay” : 0,
“AttackAfterFireDuration” : 0,
“AttackAfterCompletionDuration” : 0
“audioFadeDuration” : 0,
Debug speed tweak
Paste the text below into a text file, and save it with the .reg extension. Then double-click it. Use notepad or a text editor to avoid any problems.
Launch your mission and press Ctrl-LeftShift-minus sign combination. That's speed toggle.
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Harebrained Schemes\BATTLETECH]
"last_debug_state_h176629417"=dword:00000001
posted by Sebmojo at 5:05 PM on April 28, 2018 [6 favorites]
I dont understand game devs. They always make the turn based strategy games with too much dead, wasted time and we always have to go in and change json files to fix it. Remember how gosh darn slooooow a turn in XCOM2 was until we edited the json or downloaded the "Stop Wasting My Time!" mod?
DEVS PLS GIVE US A SLIDER OR SOMETHING. I'm sure your artistic vision is superb and all but I don't need the mech I just shot at to linger motionless on my scree for 2 seconds before the camera switches back. It's not the Elias death scene from Platoon.
posted by Justinian at 5:53 PM on April 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
DEVS PLS GIVE US A SLIDER OR SOMETHING. I'm sure your artistic vision is superb and all but I don't need the mech I just shot at to linger motionless on my scree for 2 seconds before the camera switches back. It's not the Elias death scene from Platoon.
posted by Justinian at 5:53 PM on April 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
The speed I can deal with, personally.
Top of my list for a'fixin' is the instant reinforcement bug, which is that thing that happens on some of the non-main-quest missions where you drop to the surface and as soon as an enemy target mech pops up on sensors, the script for enemy reinforcements activates, so all the sudden it's 4vs8 or 4vs12 before you've even contacted the main force.
For the most part I'm playing this Ironman style with no save-scumming/no reloading but I've had to resort to a reload a time or two because of just getting my ass kicked by the instant reinforcements. One can tell it's a bug because out-of-place remnants of the scripted dialog fire if you manage to destroy all the opposition.
posted by glonous keming at 6:25 PM on April 28, 2018
Top of my list for a'fixin' is the instant reinforcement bug, which is that thing that happens on some of the non-main-quest missions where you drop to the surface and as soon as an enemy target mech pops up on sensors, the script for enemy reinforcements activates, so all the sudden it's 4vs8 or 4vs12 before you've even contacted the main force.
For the most part I'm playing this Ironman style with no save-scumming/no reloading but I've had to resort to a reload a time or two because of just getting my ass kicked by the instant reinforcements. One can tell it's a bug because out-of-place remnants of the scripted dialog fire if you manage to destroy all the opposition.
posted by glonous keming at 6:25 PM on April 28, 2018
I'm re-reading the Culture novels via audiobook and just got to the scene in Surface Detail where the reincarnating soldier is in what sounds like a battle mech. It's all movement by movement descriptions of targeting weapons and angles of attack and increasing levels of structural damage and tactics. I just kept thinking about this thread. I think I may need to buy a graphics card.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 9:11 PM on April 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by ActingTheGoat at 9:11 PM on April 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
For the most part I'm playing this Ironman style with no save-scumming/no reloading but I've had to resort to a reload a time or two because of just getting my ass kicked by the instant reinforcements. One can tell it's a bug because out-of-place remnants of the scripted dialog fire if you manage to destroy all the opposition.
I noticed this bug too. In fact it happened on my very last mission, which was fine because I outclassed my opponents by several dozen tons and one of their units was a vehicle that was stuck in a valley until the end. What made it obvious was that a little audio played where my XO guy said he detected reinforcements AFTER I had killed everything. Same experience as you describe.
posted by axiom at 9:42 PM on April 28, 2018
I noticed this bug too. In fact it happened on my very last mission, which was fine because I outclassed my opponents by several dozen tons and one of their units was a vehicle that was stuck in a valley until the end. What made it obvious was that a little audio played where my XO guy said he detected reinforcements AFTER I had killed everything. Same experience as you describe.
posted by axiom at 9:42 PM on April 28, 2018
Oh and no small props for a game that understands "save & quit". I still do the inevitable "Save" - "Quit to Desktop" - "Save & Quit", but at least it isn't like so many other games where you save and quit and the game helpfully points out that you might have unsaved progress, are you _suuuure_ you want to quit?!?!
Like quitting the game at some point just never really came up as a possible interface flow. C'mon, devs!
And yeah, I'm savescumming the frig out of it. Whatever little bit of RNG I can work in my favor since there doesn't appear to be a difficulty slider, and having lost healthy pilots in undamaged mechs in single hits already... I mean, I know it's part of the game and I hoot and holler when I do it to the OpFor, but it's hard enough without having to hose the ex-pilot out of the cockpit and hire a newbie.
posted by Kyol at 6:33 AM on April 29, 2018 [2 favorites]
Like quitting the game at some point just never really came up as a possible interface flow. C'mon, devs!
And yeah, I'm savescumming the frig out of it. Whatever little bit of RNG I can work in my favor since there doesn't appear to be a difficulty slider, and having lost healthy pilots in undamaged mechs in single hits already... I mean, I know it's part of the game and I hoot and holler when I do it to the OpFor, but it's hard enough without having to hose the ex-pilot out of the cockpit and hire a newbie.
posted by Kyol at 6:33 AM on April 29, 2018 [2 favorites]
Ahhh! This led me to remember the MechWarrior 2 soundtrack yt , a hugely influential album for me.
Yep, a fantastic album of tunes. MechWarrior 2 was a brilliant game when it came out back in...1995 or thereabouts? I had my first "proper" grown-up computer, an AMD something-something (then-equivalent to Pentium II) with something mental like 32MB of RAM, and some kind of Nvidia 2D-but-with-some-3D-stuff AGP card...and a 8X CD-ROM.
Since the MW2 CD-ROM also functioned as a plain old music CD, there would be a sort of judder while it moved from track to track...but it also juddered the game itself, and I was too busy playing to figure out how to fix it (or if it could even be fixed), so after a while I had memorised the soundtrack well enough that I knew not to get my mech into too much trouble before the current track ended and the next one began, otherwise there would be a judder that, more often than not, ended up with something important getting exploded when the CPU caught up.
Also I liked those top-down Battletech games from the early 90s. I fancy they were from SSSI but don't recall, and Google is too many tabs away.
posted by turbid dahlia at 8:18 PM on April 29, 2018
Yep, a fantastic album of tunes. MechWarrior 2 was a brilliant game when it came out back in...1995 or thereabouts? I had my first "proper" grown-up computer, an AMD something-something (then-equivalent to Pentium II) with something mental like 32MB of RAM, and some kind of Nvidia 2D-but-with-some-3D-stuff AGP card...and a 8X CD-ROM.
Since the MW2 CD-ROM also functioned as a plain old music CD, there would be a sort of judder while it moved from track to track...but it also juddered the game itself, and I was too busy playing to figure out how to fix it (or if it could even be fixed), so after a while I had memorised the soundtrack well enough that I knew not to get my mech into too much trouble before the current track ended and the next one began, otherwise there would be a judder that, more often than not, ended up with something important getting exploded when the CPU caught up.
Also I liked those top-down Battletech games from the early 90s. I fancy they were from SSSI but don't recall, and Google is too many tabs away.
posted by turbid dahlia at 8:18 PM on April 29, 2018
Pilots are a lot cheaper than robots
Yeah, and looking at the hiring hall at least it doesn't seem to have the same issue XCom 2 did where if you lose your sky adjutant general uber soldier towards the end of the game you're replacing them with a wet behind the ears nublet who doesn't know which end of a gun to hold? So that's ok. Because whoo baby, don't skip out on leveling your pilots, it adds up.
posted by Kyol at 7:48 AM on April 30, 2018 [2 favorites]
Yeah, and looking at the hiring hall at least it doesn't seem to have the same issue XCom 2 did where if you lose your sky adjutant general uber soldier towards the end of the game you're replacing them with a wet behind the ears nublet who doesn't know which end of a gun to hold? So that's ok. Because whoo baby, don't skip out on leveling your pilots, it adds up.
posted by Kyol at 7:48 AM on April 30, 2018 [2 favorites]
I played the tabletop game a few times, but spent easily several hundred hours over the years playing multiplayer BattleTech MUSEs/MUXes.
That brings back memories...though not of actually playing. Some time ago, probably at least 20 years, maybe closer to 25 years ago, I got recruited to help build a BT MUSE. The eventual goal was to make combat playable there, but that was still a long way off at that point, and not what I was there for. No, I was building Solaris VII, the Las Vegas planet, as a setting in which you could walk around. I put in quite a few hours creating location after location. Then the admins started squabbling and things basically self-destructed, and I left.
I have no idea whatsoever if that MUSE recovered and went on to become eventually playable, and whether some of my text might have survived.
posted by Four Ds at 9:05 AM on April 30, 2018 [2 favorites]
That brings back memories...though not of actually playing. Some time ago, probably at least 20 years, maybe closer to 25 years ago, I got recruited to help build a BT MUSE. The eventual goal was to make combat playable there, but that was still a long way off at that point, and not what I was there for. No, I was building Solaris VII, the Las Vegas planet, as a setting in which you could walk around. I put in quite a few hours creating location after location. Then the admins started squabbling and things basically self-destructed, and I left.
I have no idea whatsoever if that MUSE recovered and went on to become eventually playable, and whether some of my text might have survived.
posted by Four Ds at 9:05 AM on April 30, 2018 [2 favorites]
I need to revisit my earlier comment b/c folks, it's good actually.
honestly though this kind of game is like crack to me to begin with.
posted by grobstein at 9:18 AM on April 30, 2018
honestly though this kind of game is like crack to me to begin with.
posted by grobstein at 9:18 AM on April 30, 2018
Is there a way to organize a mefi online game? Maybe we should post ids in a MetaTalk thread?
posted by GuyZero at 9:32 PM on April 30, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by GuyZero at 9:32 PM on April 30, 2018 [1 favorite]
Also I have no frigging idea how to do things tactically. I'm winning but not because I know what I'm doing. Apparently staying in water is good.
posted by GuyZero at 9:33 PM on April 30, 2018
posted by GuyZero at 9:33 PM on April 30, 2018
Is there a way to organize a mefi online game? Maybe we should post ids in a MetaTalk thread?
MeFightclub?
posted by axiom at 5:02 PM on May 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
MeFightclub?
posted by axiom at 5:02 PM on May 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
Yes, hop on the MeFightclub discord server. A bunch of us playing all kinds of stuff and someone is probably into what you're into.
posted by VTX at 5:29 PM on May 1, 2018
posted by VTX at 5:29 PM on May 1, 2018
Trained pilots are not cheaper than robots. It takes a lot of missions to get to two initial skills, plus Tac 9 for called shots. Once you figure out how to knock out mechs without coring them (with said called shots) you'll be generating plenty of mech component surplus.
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:53 AM on May 2, 2018
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:53 AM on May 2, 2018
Wow, does that MW2 soundtrack bring up a lot of memories of late nights.
posted by craven_morhead at 2:23 PM on May 2, 2018
posted by craven_morhead at 2:23 PM on May 2, 2018
Roadmap released, and a minor bugfix patch.
4. Update #1: Customization & Player Options (June/July)
We're already beginning work on our first larger free Update to BATTLETECH. This Update is all about customization and reacting to common pieces of feedback that we've received from you on the game. Here's a list of items we're currently looking at for Update 1 this summer
--Accelerated Combat Options - We're working on options for players who would like to accelerate the pace of combat missions.
--MechWarrior Customization - We know that many players would like to change the appearance, callsign, name, and voice of all their MechWarriors, not just their Commander. This didn't make it in for launch but we'll be adding it in Update 1
--Granular difficulty settings - A set of discrete options for players to customize the challenge level of the game in different areas.
--MechLab / Store / Salvage Quality-of-Life Improvements - Interface additions to reduce friction when buying and salvaging new items.
--Tutorial-skip Option - Allowing players who have already played the prologue missions to skip those missions when starting a new campaign, and get right to the Leopard.
--Addressing Difficulty Spikes - We'll be working on smoothing out some issues with unexpectedly hard (or easy) content. Not to remove all difficulty variance, but to address clear outliers.
--Live-streaming Quality-of-Life Improvements - Audio persisting when alt-tabbed, for example.
posted by Sebmojo at 9:21 PM on May 2, 2018 [4 favorites]
4. Update #1: Customization & Player Options (June/July)
We're already beginning work on our first larger free Update to BATTLETECH. This Update is all about customization and reacting to common pieces of feedback that we've received from you on the game. Here's a list of items we're currently looking at for Update 1 this summer
--Accelerated Combat Options - We're working on options for players who would like to accelerate the pace of combat missions.
--MechWarrior Customization - We know that many players would like to change the appearance, callsign, name, and voice of all their MechWarriors, not just their Commander. This didn't make it in for launch but we'll be adding it in Update 1
--Granular difficulty settings - A set of discrete options for players to customize the challenge level of the game in different areas.
--MechLab / Store / Salvage Quality-of-Life Improvements - Interface additions to reduce friction when buying and salvaging new items.
--Tutorial-skip Option - Allowing players who have already played the prologue missions to skip those missions when starting a new campaign, and get right to the Leopard.
--Addressing Difficulty Spikes - We'll be working on smoothing out some issues with unexpectedly hard (or easy) content. Not to remove all difficulty variance, but to address clear outliers.
--Live-streaming Quality-of-Life Improvements - Audio persisting when alt-tabbed, for example.
posted by Sebmojo at 9:21 PM on May 2, 2018 [4 favorites]
I think a lot of the mech mods need to have their tonnage greatly reduced. The stuff like arm and leg actuators. I like punching and death from above is fun but for example a FOUR TON leg actuator that results in -20 self DFA damage is ridiculously non-optimal. You're gimping yourself using it.
It should be one ton at most, if not half a ton. Ditto on the other stuff.
At least the rangefinders weigh nothing! There's a reason its the only mech mod I'm using.
posted by Justinian at 3:26 PM on May 3, 2018
It should be one ton at most, if not half a ton. Ditto on the other stuff.
At least the rangefinders weigh nothing! There's a reason its the only mech mod I'm using.
posted by Justinian at 3:26 PM on May 3, 2018
If you want an idea of how bad a -damage from DFA mod for mech legs is, consider:
The actuator mod which gives -20 damage to self from Death From Above attacks weighs 4 tons. 1 ton of armor is 80 points of armor. So, if you bought 4 tons of armor instead of the mod you would get 320 armor. The actuator prevents 20 damage to your armor if you DFA, which you should be doing extremely rarely.
So, yeah, that leg actuator upgrade should be 0.5tons at most. Even that is pushing it.
I don't know why this one little thing is bothering me so much. It just always really grinds my gears when something so obvious gets by the designers. If you miss obvious little things you probably missed obvious big things. *cue possibly apocryphal Van Halen brown M&M rider story*
posted by Justinian at 5:47 PM on May 3, 2018 [2 favorites]
The actuator mod which gives -20 damage to self from Death From Above attacks weighs 4 tons. 1 ton of armor is 80 points of armor. So, if you bought 4 tons of armor instead of the mod you would get 320 armor. The actuator prevents 20 damage to your armor if you DFA, which you should be doing extremely rarely.
So, yeah, that leg actuator upgrade should be 0.5tons at most. Even that is pushing it.
I don't know why this one little thing is bothering me so much. It just always really grinds my gears when something so obvious gets by the designers. If you miss obvious little things you probably missed obvious big things. *cue possibly apocryphal Van Halen brown M&M rider story*
posted by Justinian at 5:47 PM on May 3, 2018 [2 favorites]
DFA? You lost, just eject or reload (depending on playstyle).
ACs are OP, which the game compensates for by not letting you refit hardpoints -- variants are preset and have separately salvaged components.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:28 PM on May 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
ACs are OP, which the game compensates for by not letting you refit hardpoints -- variants are preset and have separately salvaged components.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:28 PM on May 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
This game is insanely great. It says a lot that one can rattle off a whole litany of things that could use improvement on the interface or performance or whatever, and it just does not matter. The core tactical game + mercenary management overworld game is such a blast.
posted by billjings at 11:42 AM on May 7, 2018
posted by billjings at 11:42 AM on May 7, 2018
So for those of us who bought it through Steam and don't have the usual Workshop links, where's the best mod resource?
posted by Kyol at 5:58 AM on May 8, 2018
posted by Kyol at 5:58 AM on May 8, 2018
Dunno about best, but it appears that good old Nexusmods has a ton of stuff.
posted by tobascodagama at 7:45 AM on May 8, 2018
posted by tobascodagama at 7:45 AM on May 8, 2018
I've got something like a 10 point list of problematic things (ranging from minor to nearly game-breaking) that need to be addressed in a patch or, more likely, in future games/DLC. But perhaps counterintuitively such a list is usually for me a sign of a good game. 'Cause I don't care enough to bother with mediocre ones.
For instance... the current system where you always drop 4 mechs of whatever tonnage you want, combined with being badly outnumbered on most missions plus the evasion system-vs-entrenchment damage mitigation means that it is universally better to drop 4 assaults or 3 assaults+1 heavy or something. Lights are essentially completely obsolete by mid-game. Show me a light in a 4+ skull mission and I'll show you a walking corpse.
That's a problem. Battletech has always been a game of mixed weight mechs. A standard lance is like 1 light, 1 medium, 2 heavies. A lance of 4 assaults is unheard of except for some crazy Lyran formations. But the lore doesn't matter, the real issue is that making roughly 3/4 of your mechs obsolete and pointless by late midgame is a dubious design choice. That isn't to say that you might not be able to win while fielding a bunch of mediums. You also might be able to win the newly release Pillars 2 with nothing but 2 characters. But in either case you're intentionally gimping yourself in order to provide a bigger challenge. Nothing wrong with that but it should not be confused with proper game design.
Despite stuff like this the game is very solid and a ton of fun.
posted by Justinian at 2:13 PM on May 8, 2018 [4 favorites]
For instance... the current system where you always drop 4 mechs of whatever tonnage you want, combined with being badly outnumbered on most missions plus the evasion system-vs-entrenchment damage mitigation means that it is universally better to drop 4 assaults or 3 assaults+1 heavy or something. Lights are essentially completely obsolete by mid-game. Show me a light in a 4+ skull mission and I'll show you a walking corpse.
That's a problem. Battletech has always been a game of mixed weight mechs. A standard lance is like 1 light, 1 medium, 2 heavies. A lance of 4 assaults is unheard of except for some crazy Lyran formations. But the lore doesn't matter, the real issue is that making roughly 3/4 of your mechs obsolete and pointless by late midgame is a dubious design choice. That isn't to say that you might not be able to win while fielding a bunch of mediums. You also might be able to win the newly release Pillars 2 with nothing but 2 characters. But in either case you're intentionally gimping yourself in order to provide a bigger challenge. Nothing wrong with that but it should not be confused with proper game design.
Despite stuff like this the game is very solid and a ton of fun.
posted by Justinian at 2:13 PM on May 8, 2018 [4 favorites]
How did earlier incarnations of Battletech handle this? Did light mechs have more of a speed advantage that's been reduced this time around or what?
posted by RobotHero at 7:45 AM on May 9, 2018
posted by RobotHero at 7:45 AM on May 9, 2018
I haven't played it probably twenty years, but my recollection is that the tabletop game had rules about what you could stuff into your dropship. It may have been a straight "you can drop this many tons, otherwise do whatever" or it might have been a point system that took tonnage into account. At any rate, the "only four mechs" limitation is unique to the Harebrained Schemes game, as far as I know, and it's the primary culprit in making Lights useless.
posted by tobascodagama at 8:08 AM on May 9, 2018
posted by tobascodagama at 8:08 AM on May 9, 2018
Is sensor lock very useful for people? I've tried to make my lights useful by aggressively sensor locking but I can't really tell if it helps or how much.
So far the main things lights seem to do is draw fire away from medium and heavy mechs early in a skirmish which is helpful but not really a long term strategy.
posted by GuyZero at 9:45 AM on May 9, 2018
So far the main things lights seem to do is draw fire away from medium and heavy mechs early in a skirmish which is helpful but not really a long term strategy.
posted by GuyZero at 9:45 AM on May 9, 2018
Sensor lock is useful on *one* of your lance, particularly if he/she also has the move-after-firing skill. I tend to run 3 Lancers (which is, by far, the most useful combination of skills to the point of rendering most other skills pointless, another thing on my "fix list") and then 1 guy with sensor lock and fire-after-moving. When that scouty guy sees something he sensor locks it and then jumps back away beyond visual range and behind a hill or something if possible. I usually use a Kintaro or Griffin for the midgame and then a Grasshopper late game. Kintaros aren't supposed to have jumpjets but the game lets you jam then on basically everything which is kinda weird but too good to pass up.
The sensor lock keeps the enemy lit even when not in visual range as well as reducing its evasion by 2, so now you can rain LRM death on it for a turn or even 2 before taking any return fire. You can also fire ACs and even PPCs from beyond visual range if thats your thing.
So far the main things lights seem to do is draw fire away from medium and heavy mechs early in a skirmish which is helpful but not really a long term strategy.
Yeah, the problem later on is that enemy pilots have a lot of gunnery skill. If you have 5 pips of evasion they'll miss mostly but the second someone sensor locks your light and knocks it down to 2-3 pips of evasion you will be evaporated instantly.
posted by Justinian at 10:24 AM on May 9, 2018
The sensor lock keeps the enemy lit even when not in visual range as well as reducing its evasion by 2, so now you can rain LRM death on it for a turn or even 2 before taking any return fire. You can also fire ACs and even PPCs from beyond visual range if thats your thing.
So far the main things lights seem to do is draw fire away from medium and heavy mechs early in a skirmish which is helpful but not really a long term strategy.
Yeah, the problem later on is that enemy pilots have a lot of gunnery skill. If you have 5 pips of evasion they'll miss mostly but the second someone sensor locks your light and knocks it down to 2-3 pips of evasion you will be evaporated instantly.
posted by Justinian at 10:24 AM on May 9, 2018
The move after firing skill also contributes to survivability by letting your scouty guy reserve his move to the end of a turn, jump in and fire, and then fire again before the enemy moves and jump away. That's why I use a medium and then a heavy, for the additional point of initiative allowing you to retreat before the heavies and later assaults smoke you. Eventually they may get pissed off and start focus firing at you at which point it is time to advance rearward.
posted by Justinian at 10:28 AM on May 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 10:28 AM on May 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
I have sensor lock on my player character, along with the expert initiative skill, plus multi-targeting. Rather than having it on pilot in a pure scout/standoff mech, I use medium/heavy sluggers with jump jets and sensor lock is what I do when I don't have a good shot.
My character moves reasonably early even in a heavy mech with the initiative bonus, so if I can't get into LOS or range I sensor lock instead, which allows the rest of the lance (typically reserved until the final two phases of a round) to maneuver advantageously and fire LRMs (or long range direct weps).
Once I get a couple pilots with the Ace Piloting skill I may try the lock-and-scoot instead. For the time being I've been focusing on getting my pilots to Tac 9, as called shots are one of the most important dynamics in the game -- for survivability and for the economic side of the game.
While it's not my playstyle, it suppose it's possible to use lights (and newbie procedurally generated hires) as simple cannon fodder.
But in either case you're intentionally gimping yourself in order to provide a bigger challenge. Nothing wrong with that but it should not be confused with proper game design.
I know this terminology has been around forever in gaming (tabletop and video) but it really need to be retired.
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:27 AM on May 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
My character moves reasonably early even in a heavy mech with the initiative bonus, so if I can't get into LOS or range I sensor lock instead, which allows the rest of the lance (typically reserved until the final two phases of a round) to maneuver advantageously and fire LRMs (or long range direct weps).
Once I get a couple pilots with the Ace Piloting skill I may try the lock-and-scoot instead. For the time being I've been focusing on getting my pilots to Tac 9, as called shots are one of the most important dynamics in the game -- for survivability and for the economic side of the game.
While it's not my playstyle, it suppose it's possible to use lights (and newbie procedurally generated hires) as simple cannon fodder.
But in either case you're intentionally gimping yourself in order to provide a bigger challenge. Nothing wrong with that but it should not be confused with proper game design.
I know this terminology has been around forever in gaming (tabletop and video) but it really need to be retired.
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:27 AM on May 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
I think the move-after-firing gambit is too situational, but maybe I haven't tried it enough. Going 1/2 gunnery, full tactical in the scout to get improved initiative is better late game IMO. I put my scout in a Black Knight with a stupid amount of armor (1400 I think) and the best cockpit mod I can find (for injury resist, not +morale) as well as Gyro stability and it's generally pretty good. She can take a few hits, and I usually find myself closing to melee after the heat buildup becomes too much (or just jumping away). The rest of the lance is all Lancers, one in a King Crab I refitted as a missile + AC10 boat (kind of sick) and the other in mixed-weapons brawlers (AC/5x2 or AC/20, missiles, coupla MLs for ammo conservancy). I've only gotten into a hairy spot on one 5-skull mission when the enemy rolled up with 2 atlas + stalker + thunderbolt in the 2nd (reinforcement) wave, and my LRM boat ran out of ammo and my flanker got torn up. Dekker spent 74 days in sickbay, but everyone else was pretty much OK. This is all after the full story mission where my mech selection is pretty sick (I have at least one variant of everything except, I think, Urbanmech).
posted by axiom at 9:39 PM on May 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by axiom at 9:39 PM on May 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
If you've been having issues with Battletech (and other Unity games) whereby you have to restart your Windows session after quitting the game before it will launch again, and the error logs reflect a D3D Device Creation error, you probably have an nVidia GPU and need to update your drivers.
I chalked it up to some bug HBS needed to squash at first, but then it happened with other Unity games. Turns out there was something that Unity didn't like in the April driver release. This month's update (nominally for the Destiny 2 expansion) fixed it.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:57 AM on May 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
I chalked it up to some bug HBS needed to squash at first, but then it happened with other Unity games. Turns out there was something that Unity didn't like in the April driver release. This month's update (nominally for the Destiny 2 expansion) fixed it.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:57 AM on May 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
Rule number 1: keep your mechs moving. Those evasion pips are super important.
Rule number 2: watch your heat.
I would also stick with the stock loadout of the mechs in the beginning, and whatever you do in the mech lab, don't strip too much armor of your mech: armor is live in this game.
posted by Pendragon at 3:44 PM on April 27, 2018 [3 favorites]