All In The Game Yo, All In The Game

October 19, 2021 3:01 PM

Why The Wire is the greatest TV series of the 21st Century out of The 100 greatest TV series of the 21st Century [BBC]

While in no way definitive, the answers we have collated are fascinating – and, we hope, will inspire TV lovers everywhere to both seek out titles they haven't seen before, and further reflect on and discuss ones they have. In total, 460 different series were voted for by 206 TV experts – critics, journalists, academics and industry figures – who came from 43 countries, from Albania to Uruguay. Of these voters, 100 were women, 104 were men, and two were non-binary. Each voter listed their 10 favourite TV series of the 21st Century, which we scored and ranked to produce the top 100 listed below.

1 The Wire (2002-2008)
2 Mad Men (2007-2015)
3 Breaking Bad (2008-2013)
4 Fleabag (2016-2019)
5 Game of Thrones (2011-2019)
6 I May Destroy You (2020)
7 The Leftovers (2014-2017)
8 The Americans (2013-2018)
9 The Office (UK) (2001-2003)
10 Succession (2018-)
11 BoJack Horseman (2014-2020)
12 Six Feet Under (2001-2005)
13 Twin Peaks: The Return (2017)
14 Atlanta (2016-)
15 Chernobyl (2019)
16 The Crown (2016-)
17 30 Rock (2006-2013)
18 Deadwood (2004-2006)
19 Lost (2004-2010)
20 The Thick of It (2005-2012)
21 Curb Your Enthusiasm (2000-)
22 Black Mirror (2011-)
23 Better Call Saul (2015-2022)
24 Veep (2012-2019)
25 Sherlock (2010-2017)
26 Watchmen (2019)
27 Line of Duty (2012-2021)
28 Friday Night Lights (2006-2011)
29 Parks and Recreation (2009-2015)
30 Girls (2012-2017)
31 True Detective (2014-2019)
32 Arrested Development (2003-2019)
33 The Good Wife (2009-2016)
34 The Bridge (2011-2018)
35 Fargo (2014-)
36= Downton Abbey (2010-2015)
36= Band of Brothers (2001)
38 The Handmaid's Tale (2017-)
39 The Office (US) (2005-2013)
40 Borgen (2010-2022)
41 Schitt's Creek (2015-2020)
42 Peep Show (2003-2015)
43 Money Heist (2017-2021)
44 Community (2009-2015)
45 The Good Fight (2017-)
46 Homeland (2011-2020)
47 Grey's Anatomy (2005-)
48 Inside No 9 (2014-)
49 The Bureau (2015-)
50 Halt and Catch Fire (2014-2017)
51 Small Axe (2020)
52 This is England 86, 88 and 90 (2010-2015)
53 Call My Agent! (2015-2020)
54 Happy Valley (2014-)
55 The Shield (2002-2008)
56 The Big Bang Theory (2007-2019)
57 The Young Pope (2016)
58 Dark (2017-2020)
59 The Underground Railroad (2021)
60 House of Cards (2013-2018)
61 Avatar: The Last Airbender (2005-2008)
62= The Good Place (2016-2020)
62= Pose (2018-2021)
64 Detectorists (2014-2017)
65 Orange is the New Black (2013-2019)
66 Mare of Easttown (2021)
67 RuPaul's Drag Race (2009-)
68 Stranger Things (2016-)
69 24 (2001-2010)
70 Battlestar Galactica (2004-2009)
71 Enlightened (2011-2013)
72 Gilmore Girls (2000-2007)
73 Planet Earth (2006)
74 Utopia (2013-2014)
75 Babylon Berlin (2017-)
76 Rick and Morty (2013-)
77 American Crime Story (2016-)
78 The Killing (Denmark) (2007-2012)
79 Mindhunter (2017-2019)
80 House (2004-2012)
81 OJ: Made in America (2016)
82 Big Little Lies (2017-2019)
83 Insecure (2016-2021)
84= Normal People (2020)
84= Narcos (2015-2017)
86 How I Met Your Mother (2005-2014)
87 The Comeback (2005-2014)
88 The OA (2016-2019)
89 Dexter (2006-2013)
90 It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia (2005-)
91 Westworld (2016-)
92 Show Me a Hero (2015)
93 Treme (2010-2013)
94 Louie (2010-2015)
95 Luther (2010-2019)
96 Catastrophe (2015-2019)
97 Hannibal (2013-2015)
98 Crazy Ex-Girlfriend (2015-2019)
99 Steven Universe (2013-2020)
100 The Queen's Gambit (2020)

posted by chavenet (155 comments total)

So weird when you think that every show on this list was in someone's top 10. Crazy to me that anyone would put Dexter, How I Met Your Mother, Mare of Easttown, House of Cards, Stranger Things, The Big Bang Theory, Lost, Sherlock, Call My Agent!!, Parks and Rec, and so many more of these in their top 100 let alone ten. Mind-boggling.

And, since you were wondering, I'd go:

Deadwood
Friday Night Lights
The Wire
Fleabag
Happy Valley
Catastrophe
The Office UK
Curb Your Enthusiasm
Black Mirror
Breaking Band

And I know -- my favorite band sucks.
posted by dobbs at 3:17 PM on October 19, 2021 [4 favorites]

A surprisingly good list, for my money. I'd personally go 1. Deadwood, 2. The Wire, 3. The Thick of It, pretend Game of Thrones was a typo, and nuke Rick & Morty from orbit, but pretty much all my favourites are on here. Glad to see Band of Brothers (which was great) and not The Pacific (which was awful) too. Now to RTFA!
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:17 PM on October 19, 2021 [6 favorites]

What, no Doctor Who?
posted by jjderooy at 3:22 PM on October 19, 2021 [5 favorites]

Full list of votes by critic
posted by OHenryPacey at 3:23 PM on October 19, 2021 [5 favorites]

jjderooy: Judging by the absence of The Sopranos, I assume this list does not include shows that existed prior to 2000.
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:24 PM on October 19, 2021 [9 favorites]

I guess that's what kept Survivor off the list as well.
posted by jjderooy at 3:26 PM on October 19, 2021 [2 favorites]

Better Call Saul is superior to Breaking Bad. Oh screw it, the whole thing is a mess past about 30. Picking it apart will be just as tedious as the dumb methodology used.
posted by Keith Talent at 3:29 PM on October 19, 2021 [19 favorites]

Just glancing over the list, it seems to be fairly evenly divided between shows I liked, shows I didn't like and shows I haven't seen. Which tells me I probably watch too much tv.

I appreciate that they listed the years aired - there are a few on here I would have sworn started in the 90s - but I guess Gilmore Girls just aged poorly and quickly. (One of a couple shows on this list I would rank very differently when I first watched and now.)
posted by the primroses were over at 3:30 PM on October 19, 2021 [3 favorites]

Adventure Time
posted by gwint at 3:36 PM on October 19, 2021 [29 favorites]

Also, damn, I thought I didn't watch a ton of TV, but clearly... I have.
posted by gwint at 3:37 PM on October 19, 2021 [3 favorites]

Oh, there's the Good Place. Missed it the first time around. I would have put Dr. Who on, and Nine Perfect Strangers. Preferred it to Big Little Lies. Nicole Kidman is outstanding (again) in it.
posted by emmet at 3:39 PM on October 19, 2021 [2 favorites]

Did I miss 'Silicon Valley' on this list? Because it's the funniest thing since... 'The IT Crowd'... HEY WAIT A SEC!

Maybe add 'Mr Robot' too... and maybe 'Start-Up'...
posted by ovvl at 3:41 PM on October 19, 2021 [3 favorites]

very happy to see Inside No. 9 on there, it's fantastic
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 3:41 PM on October 19, 2021 [4 favorites]

Really glad to see The Leftovers in the top 10. Watching the full three season arc twice during the pandemic helped me process a lot of mental and emotional shit.
posted by vverse23 at 3:49 PM on October 19, 2021 [8 favorites]

Emmet: Let's right!
posted by stevil at 3:52 PM on October 19, 2021 [2 favorites]

First I searched the list for the Sopranos, found it missing, and my brain shorted out. Then I realized it was because my pick for best series is not even from this century and omg I'm just going to bed now.
posted by HotToddy at 3:54 PM on October 19, 2021 [9 favorites]

Also I haven't seen everything on this list but I've seen an awful lot of it and only The Wire is in the same league as the Sopranos and I don't know how I feel about that.
posted by HotToddy at 3:56 PM on October 19, 2021 [1 favorite]

Fuck.
Fuckfuckfuck.
Th'fuck?
Fuuuuck.
Motherfucker!
Fuck.
posted by bartleby at 4:04 PM on October 19, 2021 [12 favorites]

I think the individual lists are more interesting than the compiled top 100. I'm also struck by how international television is - shows like Dark, Money Heist and Call My Agent! get votes from all over. I wouldn't necessarily put them in my list of "best tv" (though Dark definitely deserves the award for Most Systematically Mindfucking), but it's interesting to see that non-U.S. shows can become international phenomena now. Anyway, my list would probably have Legion, Agents of SHIELD and Loki on it, so what I know?
posted by Grangousier at 4:07 PM on October 19, 2021 [5 favorites]

Surprised Letterkenny didn't make it in. Figure it out!
posted by paper chromatographologist at 4:11 PM on October 19, 2021 [11 favorites]

Looks like endings don't affect the ranking, because oh boy so many shows in that list that were good until they completely drop the ball during the last couple of seasons/episodes.
posted by simmering octagon at 4:12 PM on October 19, 2021 [11 favorites]

Fargo Season 2
True Detective Season 1
GoT seasons 1-5ish
The Detectorists
Fleabag season 2
The Americans
Chernobyl
Battlestar Galactica all but the finale
the Expanse
Legion season 1

no particular order, but yeah, endings do matter
posted by OHenryPacey at 4:18 PM on October 19, 2021 [6 favorites]

No "Slings & Arrows," no "Som & Furia," no "Phineas & Ferb"
posted by ivan ivanych samovar at 4:21 PM on October 19, 2021 [6 favorites]

Mr Ed
My Mother the Car
posted by sammyo at 4:22 PM on October 19, 2021 [13 favorites]

Oh this century, so out of date...
posted by sammyo at 4:23 PM on October 19, 2021 [2 favorites]

Mostly I'm down with this list. I'd put Deadwood higher. The one thing that is obviously missing is The Venture Bros. I don't know why people sleep on the Venture Bros.
posted by nushustu at 4:23 PM on October 19, 2021 [17 favorites]

I've only watched 5 shows on this list, so my opinion is under informed but I would have Game of Thrones lower. The last 2 seasons killed the whole series for me, it still pisses me off how much good character development was thrown away.
posted by doctor_negative at 4:33 PM on October 19, 2021 [5 favorites]

What is striking to me is that the number of sci-fi entries dwarfs the number of fantasy entries. Also, if I am not mistaken (which I could be, because I'm not familiar with 100% of the entries), there is only 1, made-originally-for-tv, fantasy work on this list: Avatar the Last Airbender.

Edit: to be clear "made-originally-for-tv" means not an adaptation, like GoT.
posted by Groundhog Week at 4:36 PM on October 19, 2021 [2 favorites]

The Wire is my #1 followed closely by Breaking Bad
posted by ShakeyJake at 4:38 PM on October 19, 2021 [2 favorites]

Glad to see Black Sails made it on one critic's list.
posted by No Robots at 4:41 PM on October 19, 2021 [4 favorites]

CTRL+F / Eerie Indiana.
Nothing.
Hard nope.

• I've watched the first 2 or 3 episodes of The Wire a few times, and never managed to get into it.
• Watched the first season and a half of Breaking Bad waiting for the good part to start, got tired of waiting.
• Battlestar Galactica (2004-2009) should be amended to Battlestar Galactica (2004-2007)

posted by signal at 4:49 PM on October 19, 2021 [5 favorites]

This includes some shows that started off strong and quickly nose-dived like Westworld, House of Cards, Sherlock. And I'm not even sure what Greys anatomy or Lost are doing on this list at all.

I am good with the Wire at #1 though.
posted by piyushnz at 4:50 PM on October 19, 2021 [4 favorites]

there is only 1, made-originally-for-tv, fantasy work on this list: Avatar the Last Airbender

A lot is going to depend on how you define fantasy, or what makes fantasy fantasy to you. Some folks will go with the content -- if the content has enough supernatural content or magic content or this-religion-is-true content, it's more likely to be fantasy and not science fiction. Other folks will put more emphasis on the mood, setting, trappings of the thing; does it feel like a fantasy?

Me, I'd call _The Leftovers_ a dark fantasy, because it's about a world dealing with what looks an awful lot like a supernatural event. BUT, it's a world that's not used to dealing with supernatural events, not a world where that sort of thing was commonplace. And the show presents the society trying to deal with it in ways more science-fictiony than fantasy-ey, and there are engineers instead of wizards. A fantasy show that feels science-fiction-ey. Lost goes here too.

I think it's hard to put The Good Place anywhere but fantasy, being set as it is in an afterlife that (AFAIK) no actual religion subscribes or subscribed to.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:50 PM on October 19, 2021 [4 favorites]

• 01 Steven Universe (2013-2020)
• 02 Avatar: The Last Airbender (2005-2008)
• 03 The Legend of Korra (2012-2014)

posted by signal at 4:52 PM on October 19, 2021 [14 favorites]

It is indeed a list.

I’m glad to see I May Destroy You so high, and I wish to see it get all of the praise, if only because the story of Michaela Coel writing it over and over and over again really struck me, and I want her work appreciated.
posted by jeweled accumulation at 4:52 PM on October 19, 2021 [8 favorites]

Battlestar Galactica (2004-2009) should be amended to Battlestar Galactica (2004-2007)

Harsh, but fair.
posted by turbid dahlia at 4:55 PM on October 19, 2021 [16 favorites]

I look forward to adding many of these to my various streaming watchlists, and then just watching The Wire again because it is number one.
posted by meowzilla at 4:58 PM on October 19, 2021 [4 favorites]

Does anyone dare post in this thread that's seen less of these than I? 3 out of 100 (Black Mirror, Band of Brothers, and some Game of Thrones).
posted by glonous keming at 5:00 PM on October 19, 2021 [2 favorites]

Lost (2004-2010)

WTAF. Really?
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:07 PM on October 19, 2021 [4 favorites]

I don't watch enough tv to have a serious crack at a list like this, but my top ten would be like
Danger 5
Adventure Time
Ash vs Evil Dead
posted by rodlymight at 5:11 PM on October 19, 2021 [5 favorites]

I’d drop GoT and something else, maybe Louie, so I could add Good Girls and Dead to Me.

At first I was like, ‘wait, two of the top 100 tv shows of the last twenty years are about OJ Simpson,’ but then I was like ‘damn right two of the top 100 tv shows of the last twenty years are about OJ Simpson (and Gianni Versace and Monica Lewinsky).’
posted by box at 5:13 PM on October 19, 2021 [4 favorites]

(And I’ve seen at least thirty of these before I stopped counting. We can be in a golden age of tv, and I can still watch too damn much of it.)
posted by box at 5:14 PM on October 19, 2021 [2 favorites]

Are some of you just naming shows for the fun of it and not paying any attention to the title of The 100 greatest TV series of the 21st Century? I mean, it's one thing to not RTFA, but not even reading the thread title? Come on!

Anyhow, Deutschland 83/86/89 and Maniac are the two that I'd have put on the list. And noticing there are indeed non-scripted shows: where the hell is Great British Bake Off?
posted by Mister Fabulous at 5:18 PM on October 19, 2021 [5 favorites]

Surprised Letterkenny didn't make it in. Figure it out!
#CanCon (Canadian Content)
Corner Gas
Tin Star
How It's Made
posted by bartleby at 5:20 PM on October 19, 2021 [4 favorites]

Geez, I feel like I watch a lot of TV but have only seen about a third of these. There's a few others I've been meaning to watch but haven't had the time (I've had Westworld on my HBO watch list for like 3 years now...)

Deutschland 83/86/89

Agreed (although I haven't gotten to 89 yet). I am glad to see there's two other awesome German-language shows on there: Dark and Babylon Berlin.
posted by photo guy at 5:26 PM on October 19, 2021 [2 favorites]

Glad to see the Americans getting love, though selfishly I think it should be higher, certainly higher than GoT. They got a lot of shows that I actually stop and watch on purpose which is nice, I would add Brooklyn 99 as a personal fav, also Better Off Ted which I think is criminally under looked.

The best USA show though which could be a category all its own is Burn Notice. Another one I love that hasn't exactly entered into the pop culture.
posted by Carillon at 5:28 PM on October 19, 2021 [3 favorites]

Babylon Berlin is absolutely top 10 of all time material, it's so fricking good.
posted by oulipian at 5:35 PM on October 19, 2021 [4 favorites]

The OA?
The OA?!?!
posted by thatwhichfalls at 5:47 PM on October 19, 2021 [10 favorites]

glonous keming, I thought I might also be at about 3, but it looks like I've seen 7 (Six Feet Under, Sherlock, Downton Abbey, Community, The Good Place - well, I haven't seen season 4 yet, but I will as soon as I can get over to the library to get it), Detectorists, Gilmore Girls, much of Steven Universe).

I know tastes differ and all, but I do have a hard time imagining how any show could possibly be better than Detectorists or The Good Place.

(Treme is way up on my list to get from the library, too.)

(I, personally, have no interest in Game of Thrones, and I have massive negative interest in seeing 24. I wish I could nullify others' interest in 24. What an appalling show.)

So, yeah, my list would be something like:

1= Detectorists
1= The Good Place
3-9 : (things I haven't seen yet)
10 or so : Slings and Arrows
15 or so : Star Trek: Discovery

and that's me done.

I'm a little surprised no one's mentioned that there's still a lot of century left to go. Unless the list makers know something we don't know.

Also ... no Ted Lasso???
posted by kristi at 5:51 PM on October 19, 2021 [8 favorites]

No Adventure Time is criminal. No The Good Place may be an actual felony. No Darkplace?? Come on!!
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:03 PM on October 19, 2021 [3 favorites]

A second watch of Sherlock made clear what a mess of hot garbage it really was.

Also, no Great British Bake Off? This is clearly a pack of animals.
posted by GenjiandProust at 6:05 PM on October 19, 2021 [1 favorite]

Yeah, not seeing:

Leverage
Travelers
Timeless
The Magicians
Warrior
Jessica Jones
(EDIT:
Todd Vs. the Book of Evil
)

Not to mention the ones mentioned:

The Expanse
Legion*

And you're not even going to give an honorable mention to the longest running crack of them all?

SUPERNATURAL

*Srs tho, the rest is dross**, but this show? THIS SHOW? It has a psychic battle as a modern dance dance-off. What is even wrong with you, critics?

** Apart from Leverage. Going to the mattresses for for Leverage.
posted by erikred at 6:10 PM on October 19, 2021 [5 favorites]

Steven Universe should be a lot higher (like wayyyyyyy higher), and yeah, how is Adventure Time not on there at all?

I've seen some of these shows, but most of them I'd struggle to remember more than cast; they were.. fine, and then gone. "Best" is such a goofy metric. I'm way more interested in influential (show X came out, and then everyone did this particular camera shot for the next 20 years; or, everyone who worked on show Y went on to work on the top ten selling comics), or personally meaningful.

Pandemic life has laid bare how little I'm personally interested in television shows, but it's fun to see how the craft works and iterates on itself, and hearing peoples' personal stories about the shows and why they watched them.
posted by curious nu at 6:11 PM on October 19, 2021 [4 favorites]

The fact that The Good Place is only at 62 is an actual crime, tho.
posted by curious nu at 6:13 PM on October 19, 2021 [13 favorites]

Needs The Expanse and Anthony Bordain's Parts Unknown.
posted by subdee at 6:26 PM on October 19, 2021 [13 favorites]

Okay, well, I missed The Good Place. But whatever, 62? Horrible.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:34 PM on October 19, 2021 [1 favorite]

There are half a dozen here I gave a full season’s worth of chances to before I wrote them off as unwatchable. And there are at least one of two I’d put in my personal top twenty that are entirely unmentioned.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:50 PM on October 19, 2021 [1 favorite]

I think that shows with a notable and embarrassing drop in quality should be kicked off the list, so goodbye Sherlock and Westworld.
posted by betweenthebars at 6:52 PM on October 19, 2021 [9 favorites]

The list really hits home that we live in an era where, in order to view most of these, one must a) pay for cable (either for cable programming and/or internet access), and b) pay additionally for premium channels (like HBO) and streaming channels.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:55 PM on October 19, 2021 [5 favorites]

Am I the only one who felt a little - something - about a story on the BBC praising the Wire because it is such a harrowing true representation of the dystopian hellscape that is the United States? I mean, yes, I know it is, I live here, but... yes, my mother is unbearable but I don't necessarily want to hear you say so.
posted by pH Indicating Socks at 6:56 PM on October 19, 2021 [7 favorites]

Thorzdad, on paying for cable plus premium channels - that's true in a way, but I haven't had cable for many years, and I've watched the things I've watched on DVDs from the library, so that is also an option for lots of shows, if you don't mind waiting. (And I liked Detectorists and Slings and Arrows so much I bought the DVDs for myself, and I'll probably buy the Good Place set as well.)
posted by kristi at 7:00 PM on October 19, 2021 [2 favorites]

It's like they never got the memo about the golden age of western animation.
No Gumball, no Regular Show.
posted by signal at 7:02 PM on October 19, 2021 [3 favorites]

Maybe they have a separate list for kids’ shows?
posted by Atom Eyes at 7:07 PM on October 19, 2021 [2 favorites]

I just managed to catch the Together Forever post-Adventure Time special of Finn trying to find Jake in the Deadworlds, and I need to track down the episode so I can watch the whole thing. Watching it sent me on a YouTube binge through songs from the series, and looking at this list, I can see very little that has as much depth and meaning as just Happening Happened or Everything Stays just on their own. No Adventure Time is a rare time a list like this pisses me off. The character development, slowly doled out, yet meticulous world building, and astounding story arcs merit recognition.

Looking at the list, I am glad for a sort of guide of good things to check out that I’ve missed. Past that, yes, definitely the Wire at the top for me. In some other world, where HBO hadn’t made such a hash of the thing, Deadwood is the only thing I can imagine that comes as close as a completely and fully imagined world. What I would give for a Deadwood that ran four or five full seasons, where the movie that we got, which felt like a compression of half a season, was instead a full fifth season put together after a planned ten year hiatus.

Goddamnit, now I need to go and watch Deadwood again. And probably the Wire. And Adventure Time.
posted by Ghidorah at 7:08 PM on October 19, 2021 [4 favorites]

Deadwood is super good, but that movie that made a little while back is absolutely skippable.
posted by nushustu at 7:16 PM on October 19, 2021 [1 favorite]

This list is goofy, as all lists that purport to be definitive must be.

That being said, where is Lodge 49!?
posted by turbowombat at 7:23 PM on October 19, 2021 [4 favorites]

Maybe they have a separate list for kids’ shows?

Stuff like Adventure Time really is All Ages, not "kids." There's so much content (and continuity) there that is for adults.

Gravity Falls was a tightly paced, well-scripted, and superbly ended 2-season show that was ostensibly for kids, but had all sorts of puzzles, codes, et al that was entirely for adult viewers. And it's just missing from this list entirely?!
posted by explosion at 7:24 PM on October 19, 2021 [4 favorites]

Counterpart is missing.
posted by hwestiii at 7:29 PM on October 19, 2021 [10 favorites]

Truly the height of aesthetic criticism: numerical rankings!


*starts sweating*


*trying to control myself*


GAME OF THRONES AT FIVE?! ARE YOU F*#*ING CRAZY, HOW COULD YOU PUT IT IN THE TOP 50, LET ALONE ABOVE DEADWOOD?! DEADWOOD HAS GOT TO BE TOP 10, I MEAN COME ON, TIMOTHY OLYPHANT?! IAN MC-F@#*$@#-SHANE?! I CANNOT EVEN WITH YOU!
posted by Saxon Kane at 7:43 PM on October 19, 2021 [12 favorites]

Toradora
GITS: Standalone Complex
Lovely Complex
Ouran High Host Club
Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood
Cromartie High School
The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya
Angel Beats!
March Comes in Like a Lion
Mob Psycho 100
Zombie Land Saga
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:50 PM on October 19, 2021 [5 favorites]

GAME OF THRONES AT FIVE?! ARE YOU F*#*ING CRAZY, HOW COULD YOU PUT IT IN THE TOP 50, LET ALONE ABOVE DEADWOOD?! DEADWOOD HAS GOT TO BE TOP 10, I MEAN COME ON, TIMOTHY OLYPHANT?! IAN MC-F@#*$@#-SHANE?! I CANNOT EVEN WITH YOU!

GoT should be struck from the record merely on the basis of its final 3 episodes; a travesty, a filmic war crime, an affront to screenwriting rightfully despised by both man and gods.

Hurl the series into the outer darkness and summon the tumbrels to convey Benioff and Weiss to the Hague, and thereafter to their doom.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 7:51 PM on October 19, 2021 [9 favorites]

Am I the only one who felt a little - something - about a story on the BBC praising the Wire because it is such a harrowing true representation of the dystopian hellscape that is the United States? I mean, yes, I know it is, I live here, but... yes, my mother is unbearable but I don't necessarily want to hear you say so.

FWIW, I did my masters degree in the UK, and the most popular undergrad sociology class at my University at that time (2011) was just a class on The Wire.
posted by subdee at 7:53 PM on October 19, 2021 [4 favorites]

"Larry, let's go home."
posted by clavdivs at 8:02 PM on October 19, 2021 [2 favorites]

Maybe they have a separate list for kids’ shows?

Oh there definitely should be a list for kid/teen/family shows, which should include, off the top of my head:

Avatar: The Last Airbender
The Legend of Korra
Adventure Time
Steven Universe
Over the Garden Wall
Odd Squad
Horrible Histories
Hilda

My son is a teen now so there's probably plenty of good stuff that isn't on my radar. I don't know if The Amazing World of Gumball makes the list, but that show has brought us so much joy that on second thought yes it absolutely does make the list. Same with Teen Titans Go.
posted by vverse23 at 8:03 PM on October 19, 2021 [4 favorites]

Deadwood is super good, but that movie that made a little while back is absolutely skippable.

Oh, yeah, absolute dross. I mean the whole "gang back together after X years" is great and the writing was good as always, but after so long it would have been just as good if it didn't happen. Maybe a five year delay to carry on the story after season 3 would have been reasonable, but this was silly.
posted by turbid dahlia at 8:05 PM on October 19, 2021 [1 favorite]

I also want to nominate Black Sails, the ones at the top of this list are too Prestige TV and not Genre enough. Black Sails is a show about pirates and an historical drama and it has tons of gay characters and it's about the viability of Revolution(TM)!
posted by subdee at 8:25 PM on October 19, 2021 [5 favorites]

My top 20:
The Wire
Le Bureau
The Sopranos
Peep Show
Succession
The Americans
Hatufim
Mad Men
Atlanta
Veep
Curb Your Enthusiasm
Rectify
Deadwood
The Office
The Thick of It
Breaking Bad
Fargo
Friday Night Lights
Spooks
Community
posted by abakua at 8:29 PM on October 19, 2021 [2 favorites]

For a lot of audiences the environmental themes of Transformers was too subtle. I'm especially thinking about the Headmasters subseries here.
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 8:35 PM on October 19, 2021

I don't watch a lot of TV these days--yes, even during the pandemic--but I did watch Twin Peaks: The Return and I'm glad it came in relatively high on this list. It's not perfect, but this season of Twin Peaks may be its best. It certainly shows that David Lynch is still on his game, and it's up there with his own best work, especially considering Lynch directed every episode himself. My mind worked a little different for a few days after finishing it.
posted by zardoz at 8:36 PM on October 19, 2021 [5 favorites]

Buffy...?

It started in the 20th but ended in the 21st.
posted by chmmr at 8:47 PM on October 19, 2021 [2 favorites]

The Big Bang Theory? Is on this list? For real? What is happening?
posted by kerf at 8:50 PM on October 19, 2021 [8 favorites]

Deadwood is super good, but that movie that made a little while back is absolutely skippable.

I disagree. It’s not on the same level as the series, understandably so, and in places, it was a difficult watch. I said here, when it came out, that it was similar to visiting an older relative after having it seen them for many years, and finding that the person that had always seemed so strong, so durable had, while you weren’t looking, become frail and unsteady, and it hurt, honestly, to watch it. All the same, it felt justice was done to the characters, and to the development of the town. It did feel, very much, like the first five episodes of a season crammed into a single film, and that the way things ended, the unwritten, unfilmed second half would have dealt with the sudden changes wrought by the (mid season, as it were) climax of the film.

I’m glad that it finally got made, but it did hurt to watch it and see characters diminished by time, and to hear of Milch’s issues with Alzheimer’s. I don’t know if it’s something I’ll watch again, not because it’s “skippable” but because it pushed too many buttons that connect to deep seated hurt.
posted by Ghidorah at 9:00 PM on October 19, 2021 [4 favorites]

Whatever the order, my hat's off to these great writers.
posted by emf at 9:02 PM on October 19, 2021

I played around a little with the ballots, and although I ran into some minor data issues (e.g. sometimes only one year is listed for a show rather than its full run), the bigger issue I encountered was the data felt pretty resilient to different kinds of recounts. Like, I suspect the BBC made their final list by giving a show 10 points for 1st place, 9 points for 2nd, and so on, but just eyeballing it, the top 100 wasn't shaken up dramatically by eliminating ranked placement entirely. The article mentions how The Wire was on nearly half of the ballots, but 19 shows each appeared on more than 10% of the ballots. It seems like some of the value of polling people in 43 countries is a little obscured there, so here are the top ~45 shows probably produced/co-produced in a language other than English--apologies for any errors:

The Bridge; Borgen; Money Heist; The Bureau; Call My Agent!; The Young Pope; Dark; Babylon Berlin; The Killing (Denmark); Antidisturbios; The New Pope; Veneno; The Returned; Paranoia Agent; Shtisel; The World Between Us; Super Story; Spiral; Scam 1992: The Harshad Mehta Story; Ossan's Love (Hong Kong); My Brilliant Friend; Misaeng; Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex; Ethos; Cuéntame; K-On!; Fuji House of Commotion; Delhi Crime; Chicks; A Step Into the Past; The House of Flowers; The Election; On the Spectrum (Israel); Olga; Mistérios de Lisboa; When Heaven Burns; The Miracle; Sacred Games; Rådebank; Mirzapur; Marseille; Made In Heaven; Gulder Ultimate Search; Gomorrah; Agnes Varda: From Here to There.
posted by Wobbuffet at 9:12 PM on October 19, 2021 [13 favorites]

No Ozarks?
No Snowfall?
The Shield half way down?

This list is not my list.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 9:15 PM on October 19, 2021

YOU WILL NEVER STOP TALKING ABOUT BREAKING BAD OR THE WIRE.
posted by lock robster at 9:28 PM on October 19, 2021 [4 favorites]

Needs more Justified.
posted by thivaia at 9:40 PM on October 19, 2021 [6 favorites]

Aside from how great Justified is (and it really is that great), it’s also a fantastic “I loved that person in The Shield/Deadwood” show.
posted by Ghidorah at 10:02 PM on October 19, 2021 [5 favorites]

I feel like the author should have gone with a smaller number for their list.
posted by ryanrs at 10:10 PM on October 19, 2021 [1 favorite]

That a show like Adventure Time even exists at all is so entirely improbable that its omission from a 'list' feels entirely right to me.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 10:11 PM on October 19, 2021 [3 favorites]

Does the list contain my favourite sad horse ? Yes ? Good.
posted by Pendragon at 10:16 PM on October 19, 2021 [4 favorites]

How It's Made

Honestly, this should be #1 unless the Japanese show The Making is allowed, in which case they should take the top two spots

I can accept that shows like that are out of the remit of this particular list, in which case The Wire gets the billing it deserves. The most glaring omission is Bosch, which is on par with BCS or BB in being just plain beautiful and only slightly below in writing. Also, The Expanse, but I can see how it could be a bit too niche.

I am glad to be reminded that I need to finish Halt and Catch Fire at some point. The first season was so good that it deserves to be seen all the way through even if S2 was not great enough that I forgot to watch the rest.

Things like Lost and Mad Men don't really deserve their places on the list, IMO. They were both notable for being cultural phenomena, but neither is very good. Mad Men at least has the phenomenal set design going for it, so its appearance isn't quite as confusing to me. Still, if being culturally relevant for a time is all it takes, Grey's Anatomy and Desperate Housewives are glaring omissions. I really dislike both, but I can't argue that they weren't incredibly popular during their run.
posted by wierdo at 10:18 PM on October 19, 2021

Grey's Anatomy and Desperate Housewives are glaring omissions

Grey’s is on there at #47.
posted by profreader at 11:05 PM on October 19, 2021

Girls is also on this list. No Dead Like Me?
posted by geoff. at 11:42 PM on October 19, 2021 [2 favorites]

No Only Connect? Why do these people even have tellies?
posted by biffa at 12:41 AM on October 20, 2021 [3 favorites]

Aww, I’m sad to see the pushback on LOST in this thread. I think it deserves that place in the rankings. I rewatched it last year and it mostly still holds up; the ending is cheesy but nowhere near as bad as people say it is. My biggest complaint is probably that some of the characters are distractingly flat and poorly written, but I definitely don’t think that issue plagued this show significantly more than others on this list, and on the contrary I think some of the characters in LOST are better-written and better-acted than in almost any other show I’ve seen. I feel it was ahead of its time and helped redefine what we came to expect from television, but beyond cultural impact it’s just a good show: gripping and fun, with compelling characterization, immersive (if sometimes silly) lore, and one of the best TV scores I’ve ever heard.

(Anyway, I came here to express pleasure at Fleabag, Bojack, and Watchmen being listed so high; they are all stunning)
posted by chaiyai at 12:43 AM on October 20, 2021 [6 favorites]

The list is almost entirely English-language TV despite having judges from around the world. All best-of lists are flawed but one that puts Rick and Morty and Steven Universe as the only animated TV shows is just daft.

No Japanese animation, and no South Korean dramas in the top 100? I mean, come on.
posted by BinaryApe at 1:53 AM on October 20, 2021 [3 favorites]

If your list claims Big Bang Theory is better than the entire TV output of Asia there's something very very wrong with your methodology
posted by BinaryApe at 1:55 AM on October 20, 2021 [10 favorites]

A show I think everyone missed that I really liked is Zero Zero Zero.
posted by srboisvert at 3:19 AM on October 20, 2021 [2 favorites]

It did feel, very much, like the first five episodes of a season crammed into a single film

I felt this way about the Downton Abbey movie as well. Sometimes the slow pacing of a show is a huge part of its appeal and both Deadwood and Downton Abbey let things unfold somewhat slowly in the shows and then movies came along and altered the pacing to Too Fast and Too Soon.
posted by srboisvert at 3:25 AM on October 20, 2021 [1 favorite]

Back in the 20th century, critics like Leonard Maltin would always have KING KONG and CASABLANCA as the pinnacle on their top tens, year in year out like clockwork, always the same old B&W classics that might be great but feel frozen in time, especially 50, 60, 70 years after they first hit the big screen. The dominance of those films is now slowly slipping—VERTIGO seems to be gaining the most ground recently—and I wonder how the same mechanism will affect the ranking of these shows in the years to come. Will we still be bickering over the relative rankings of BREAKING BAD, THE SOPRANOS and THE WIRE at the top of the heap of some listicle clickbait in 2071?
posted by Ten Cold Hot Dogs at 3:30 AM on October 20, 2021 [2 favorites]

LOST became more and more frustrating because the show went on too long, therefore the tapestry they were weaving became more and more unwieldy, with too many characters and subplots. On top of that was the lazy writing the last season, in which half of each episode, roughly half the season, was set in a limbo/parallel universe that had nothing to do with the main storyline. As did the ending--it simply made no real sense; you could end any story with "and here is where you'll end up when you die." Which is a shame, because for a few years there LOST was the best show on TV, hands down.
posted by zardoz at 3:50 AM on October 20, 2021 [3 favorites]

Will we still be bickering over the relative rankings of BREAKING BAD, THE SOPRANOS and THE WIRE at the top of the heap of some listicle clickbait in 2071?

You will. And the company that'll bring it to you?
posted by thelonius at 3:57 AM on October 20, 2021 [1 favorite]

2071: You know what should be on this list?

Wet Hot American Summer: The Fifty-Year Reunion: Chris Meloni is How Freaking Old?
posted by box at 5:02 AM on October 20, 2021 [4 favorites]

The fact that Big Bang Theory is on this list invalidates the whole exercise, no?
posted by signal at 5:08 AM on October 20, 2021 [13 favorites]

I’ve seen 20 of these shows and watched some or most of about 5 more. Disagree with the ranking of a few, agree that several others should be on the list (including a few that I started watching but couldn’t finish because they moved to streaming outlets that we don’t subscribe to).

But I came in here specifically to shit on Big Bang Theory. Strike from list. To be fair I never watched it - a series that started out with the premise of “let’s all laugh at the nerds” and continued to build on the trope of “smart people can’t possibly be socially competent” doesn’t get a chance with me, no matter how much they attempt to retcon or course correct in later seasons.

If we’re agreeing that shows should be dropped from the list after shitting the bed in the last season, shows that started out as piles of crap should be equally banned.
posted by caution live frogs at 5:18 AM on October 20, 2021 [5 favorites]

The biggest problem with LOST was that it was on CBS or whichever big 3 network it was on. That meant 26 episodes/season, which was easily 2x more than they needed. As a result, the story had a lot of filler, and a lot of extra plot complications that it didn't need (I remember laughing with the wife in the...last? next-to-last? season, when the show introduced the OTHER others. Like, how many groups of wacky killers are on this island?
posted by nushustu at 6:05 AM on October 20, 2021 [2 favorites]

I initially assumed that Ken Burn's work might not be well-known outside the US, but then "The Vietnam War" is listed on a few international critics top tens (in the page showing top-tens of each critic). Surprised none of his stuff made the overall list.
posted by ishmael at 6:30 AM on October 20, 2021 [1 favorite]

#55 The Shield

As good as The Wire, if not better.
posted by prepmonkey at 6:42 AM on October 20, 2021 [3 favorites]

The biggest problem with LOST was that it was on CBS or whichever big 3 network it was on. That meant 26 episodes/season, which was easily 2x more than they needed. As a result, the story had a lot of filler, and a lot of extra plot complications that it didn't need,

That was the norm at that time no? I do agree it's probably too long with too much filler episodes. But my main issue with LOST wasn't the complexity or the many characters, it's that it was as bad at resolving its mysteries as it was good at creating them, and they were exceptionally good at creating them.

It was still an amazing show with very powerful moments (Not Penny's Boat!). Going back and remembering all those mystery shows that tried to copy it (like The Event or The Nine) is enough realize how good LOST was.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 6:51 AM on October 20, 2021 [3 favorites]

Grey’s is on there at #47

Three times. Three times reread the list in the process of writing my earlier comment, yet somehow I missed it every single time.

Not that it deserves to be on the list. Even my SO quit watching it. At this point it's only notable for still being on. I thought the first couple of seasons were OK, but if that's all it takes, Boston Legal should be there too.

Another glaring omission: Person of Interest. I must have a thing for mystery of the week shows that manage to transcend their format.
posted by wierdo at 6:57 AM on October 20, 2021 [2 favorites]

Will we still be bickering over the relative rankings of BREAKING BAD, THE SOPRANOS and THE WIRE at the top of the heap of some listicle clickbait in 2071?

Probably? I know that in 2071 I’ll still be complaining about shows that started out strong and then introduced evil twins, and more controversially, using my MySpace implant to think out my feelings about how True Detective S2 is underrated. Most people think it was complete shit, but I would argue it’s half a good show.

In the future, I think that limited series will maintain their critical status because they can be consumed in a day. Let’s meet in 2071 and talk about how Watchmen is now ranked higher than Breaking Bad.
posted by betweenthebars at 7:01 AM on October 20, 2021 [1 favorite]

Aside from how great Justified is (and it really is that great), it’s also a fantastic “I loved that person in The Shield/Deadwood” show.

In our house people will always be referred to as their characters' names on The Wire or Deadwood. For example, Robert Wisdom was in Watchmen and we say "Bunny!" Or Jim Beaver is always Ellsworth.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:24 AM on October 20, 2021 [2 favorites]

#55 The Shield
As good as The Wire, if not better.

Yes indeed. Let me join the tiny chorus that says, without The Shield, you probably don't get Breaking Bad, The Americans, Homeland or pretty much any show with a dark/amoral central character and season-long arcs. (Some may say that would be a good thing, but man, Michael Chiklis and Walton Goggins were amazing, plus you got season-long guest stars like Forest Whitaker and Glenn Close...)
posted by martin q blank at 7:32 AM on October 20, 2021 [2 favorites]

LOST became more and more frustrating because the show went on too long, therefore the tapestry they were weaving became more and more unwieldy, with too many characters and subplots. On top of that was the lazy writing the last season,

I'd also say Lost is worthy of this list. It had better world building and mystery than so many others featured.

I also think it's far from the only one with a bad ending and of the ones I've seen, I'd go so far to say most of the endings are pretty bad, including The Wire.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:47 AM on October 20, 2021 [2 favorites]

#55 The Shield
As good as The Wire, if not better.

thatsbait.gif
posted by ominous_paws at 7:47 AM on October 20, 2021 [5 favorites]

Someday I hope one of these lists will turn up that is directed at those of us who *don't* think the travails of unpleasant middle-aged white dudes is the most fundamentally interesting story in the world.

(of course, in the Wire, the unpleasant white dude was just cover to tell much more interesting stories, for the most part)
posted by tavella at 8:19 AM on October 20, 2021 [5 favorites]

Nathan for You
Loiter Squad
Hoarders (all variations)
Psycho Kitty
Li'l Quinquin, Coincoin
posted by pinothefrog at 8:28 AM on October 20, 2021 [2 favorites]

After my initial personal reactions to this list, it's really just amazing that so many great shows have been made in the past two decades, and even more shows that are merely really good or just good.
posted by LooseFilter at 8:34 AM on October 20, 2021 [4 favorites]

LOST became more and more frustrating because the show went on too long, therefore the tapestry they were weaving became more and more unwieldy, with too many characters and subplots.

The big problem with LOST is that it existed in a time where the creators were able to constantly talk to the media, and so their extra-narrative commentary shaped the viewer's experience.

We were told two important bits that they completely recanted and soured the viewing experience:

* There is an explanation for what's going on with the island. It's scientific, not supernatural.
* They consider the island to be as much a character as anyone else on the show.

There's room for suspension of disbelief for what amounts to "science" in a fictional world, but when the smoke monster becomes a supernatural creature after being told explicitly that it's not, well, the house of cards collapses.

The hook for the show was "what is this island? What's its deal?," and they just entirely failed to deliver on that, pivoting instead to some sort of fate/afterlife bullshit.

Twists are not clever or deserved when they're a departure from the actual promise of the author.
posted by explosion at 8:34 AM on October 20, 2021 [9 favorites]

I will accept Grey's Anatomy being on the list only if it is merged with General Hospital, St. Elsewhere, ER and every other nearly identical hospital drama.
posted by srboisvert at 8:54 AM on October 20, 2021 [2 favorites]

Well, a lot of my favorites are on this list. I’m also surprised that I’ve seen at least part of almost a third of these, despite missing a lot of them when they first aired and only catching up on them recently. I’m pleased to see Pose on the list, since it was an amazing show that I haven’t heard many people talking about.

A few of my omitted favorites that weren’t already called out above:

• Skam (Norway)
• She-Ra and the Princesses of Power
• Archer

I’m actually surprised that Archer didn’t make the BBC list, since it fits really well with a lot of the shows that did. It looks like there are actually four animated series in their top 100: Bojack Horseman, Avatar: The Last Airbender, Rick and Morty, and Steven Universe. The lack of anime is definitely... something.
posted by mbrubeck at 8:55 AM on October 20, 2021 [3 favorites]

The big problem with LOST is that it existed in a time where the creators were able to constantly talk to the media, and so their extra-narrative commentary shaped the viewer's experience.

I think the bigger problem is that the writers who started the show were not the writers who finished the show and that is the failing of almost all american network TV that runs more than about 3 seasons.
posted by srboisvert at 8:56 AM on October 20, 2021 [4 favorites]

Oh yeah, we’re finishing up She-ra with the kids and it just gets better and better. Also few shows have made me as happy as Detectorists (which is on the list).
posted by freecellwizard at 9:01 AM on October 20, 2021 [1 favorite]

The hook for the show was "what is this island? What's its deal?," and they just entirely failed to deliver on that, pivoting instead to some sort of fate/afterlife bullshit.

I'll look it up when I get back home, but I'm pretty sure in The Revolution Was Televised, Sepinwall discusses the fact that the creators of Lost basically put together a last minute pitch for ABC that they never expected to get picked up, and as a result they just threw everything and the kitchen sink into it...only to suddenly have it become a hit and be faced with a need to explain it all. It was never supposed to make sense, because they never thought it would be a show.
posted by nubs at 9:05 AM on October 20, 2021 [1 favorite]

I don't know if it counts as "series" since it was deliberately only 8 episodes, but I would put Russian Doll at or near the top of my list.

And, I must confess that I've never been able to get into The Wire. Something must be wrong with my TV watching brain because I absolutely wasn't able to follow what was going on. I couldn't follow the dialog, had no idea who anyone was or what I was supposed to pay attention to. I've heard that you start to get a clearer picture as you get into it but it just felt stressful and like work to me. That was also one of several reasons I noped out of GoT after a few seasons. I just didn't know what was happening half the time, especially given the gaps between seasons.
posted by treepour at 9:17 AM on October 20, 2021 [4 favorites]

freecellwizard: "Oh yeah, we’re finishing up She-ra with the kids and it just gets better and better. Also few shows have made me as happy as Detectorists (which is on the list)."

You might enjoy Kipo and the Age of Wonderbeasts when you're done with She-Ra.
posted by signal at 9:45 AM on October 20, 2021 [3 favorites]

they just threw everything and the kitchen sink into it...only to suddenly have it become a hit and be faced with a need to explain it all. It was never supposed to make sense, because they never thought it would be a show

So basically the same origin as Star Wars and The Matrix.
Sure, there were ideas about a broader universe, but there a glaring inconsistencies between movies that make it obvious they weren't written as trilogies.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:45 AM on October 20, 2021 [1 favorite]

True Detective S2 is underrated. Most people think it was complete shit, but I would argue it’s half a good show.

I agree! Colin Farrell is frickin GREAT, there were several HOLY SHIT WHAT THE FUCK moments throughout (that street shootout?! holy fuck!), and for all its complexity, the plot was pretty fascinating. Unfortunately, we also had totally ridiculous dialogue from Vince Vaughan's character basically non-stop, and a pointless subplot about a character who had like 2 seconds of screentime and maybe 1 line of dialogue before being killed, but who suddenly became this super important figure.
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:59 AM on October 20, 2021 [4 favorites]

I still don't get the love for The Wire. I've only seen the first season but it just seemed like any other cop show but with some bad American accents. I didn't hate it or anything but I didn't really feel any need to continue.
posted by octothorpe at 10:58 AM on October 20, 2021 [2 favorites]

I agree! Colin Farrell is frickin GREAT

Seconded. Who knew that guy can act? He should try that more often.

Vince Vaughan's character

Love that guy. That death march through the desert haunts me still.
posted by No Robots at 11:09 AM on October 20, 2021 [2 favorites]

I wonder what assumptions each of the people involved in this list brought to their ranking. For example, there are several shows people have mentioned that are commonly considered to have very strong starts and lackluster (or even bad) endings. I wonder how many rankers approached these shows by judging them at their peak (i.e. ranking them highly in spite of their endings) and how many left an otherwise good show off their lists because of a bad ending or bad season(s). Both are valid approaches, but you can’t tell what any given person was thinking in flat lists like these.

I’m currently watching Game of Thrones for the first time and planning to stop somewhere around season 4-5, so as far as I know it’s a good show :) and I’m glad it was recommended to me. In a similar vein, I often recommend the first season of Jessica Jones to other people, but I haven’t watched (and don’t plan to watch) the subsequent seasons, so I can’t really say whether Jessica Jones is a good show, just that season 1 of Jessica Jones is a good season. I’m not a TV critic, obviously - just think it’s kind of fun to consider these questions in light of how I’d construct my own “best of” list.
posted by chaiyai at 11:22 AM on October 20, 2021 [1 favorite]

Maybe it's beyond the scope of this survey, but I would have liked to see different lists for different categories of shows. While shows like Bojack Horseman or Atlanta demonstrate that a simple drama/comedy breakdown is insufficient to fully classify the extent of artistic expression in visual story-telly media, the first three shows on the list are clearly dramas, with different aims than clear comedies like The Office or 30 Rock. A better list would be more than one.

Other commenters have already said that many of these shows started strong, then failed to deliver in later seasons. Lost and Game of Thrones were phenomenal in seasons 1-4, but unsatisfying conclusions left viewers soured on those series as a whole. And as sort of the inverse, Breaking Bad seasons 1-2 were lackluster compared to its later seasons. I'd like to see another breakdown for best series-as-a-whole (which should probably exclude anthology series like Fargo or True Detective) vs. best season of a series. Best whole series drama additions pught to include The Expanse, Justified, and Person of Interest (which is altogether better than Westworld).
posted by Bodechack at 11:57 AM on October 20, 2021 [2 favorites]

it just seemed like any other cop show

I think The Wire is great cause it's not just a show about the cops. The cops play a part but it's really about the city and society. Policing, unionization, education, politics, journalism. The cops are there because of everything else that's going on in the city that leads to the crime. It's not just about cops solving a case. It's why does the crime happen in the first place.
posted by downtohisturtles at 12:06 PM on October 20, 2021 [9 favorites]

No Only Connect? Why do these people even have tellies?

To be fair, I don't think it has that much international reach.

That said, I've been quietly agitating for a Metafilter team to enter Only Connect for some time. In fact, I think it would be good to enter two teams: Mefites and Mefites (one with a short e, the other with a long e), which is the sort of thing that I think would amuse Ms C, especially if they ended up competing with each other.
posted by Grangousier at 12:08 PM on October 20, 2021 [2 favorites]

Imma die on the hill that The Sopranos belongs on this list.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 12:35 PM on October 20, 2021 [1 favorite]

I'm not *surprised* that Orphan Black and Key and Peele aren't on there, but they are a heck of a lot better than a number of the entries.
posted by tavella at 12:55 PM on October 20, 2021 [7 favorites]

As a life-long Baltimoron, I will never watch The Wire and you can't make me. It's done more harm to this city than just about anything else.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 12:57 PM on October 20, 2021 [1 favorite]

it just seemed like any other cop show

Except that the police are shown, as an institution, to be mostly terrible.

As a life-long Baltimoron, I will never watch The Wire and you can't make me. It's done more harm to this city than just about anything else.

How so? Genuinely interested.

Who knew that [Colin Farrell] can act? He should try that more often.

He's done some really great work: In Bruges, The Lobster, The Killing of a Sacred Deer -- hell, I'll even say that he was the best thing in Ben Affleck's mediocre Daredevil film from forever ago.

Vince Vaughan's character ...
Love that guy. That death march through the desert haunts me still.

I really wanted to like him, but so much of his dialogue was just... bad. Like, corny cheeseball bad. "Is this a parody of a gangster character?" bad. But double-V did his best with it, I guess.
posted by Saxon Kane at 1:16 PM on October 20, 2021 [2 favorites]

There was a recent thread on Twitter about how making your girlfriend watch The Wire is a typical bad boyfriend thing to do. (Guilty as charged BTW.) I happen to think The Wire deserves the #1 slot but I can totally see how a lot of (most?) people would bounce off of it. Heck, even those of us drawn in to it don't come away with any kind of good or uplifting feeling. It's a story about how everything's broken and no institution will save us; it's a damn miracle it's gotten the traction that it has.

The other best show ever is of course the disqualified Sopranos. Their big theme was the good times are firmly in the past and there's no clear blueprint for how to be going forward.

Finally, the other other best show ever is (can you guess?) Deadwood, which posits that even the meanest, basest sort of people (in other words, ordinary fucking people) can find a way to develop a community.

All of the other Peak TV shows like, say, Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul have an unmatched level of execution, fit and finish. But they don't exist to make a Bigger Statement the way my top three do. (I had hopes that BSG would make a statement about whether we deserved to exist, but we all know how that turned out.)
posted by whuppy at 3:27 PM on October 20, 2021 [2 favorites]

It's probably a good thing I don't watch a ton of TV, because the list reminds me of just how picky I am. Though I suppose the causality might go the other way to some degree.
posted by tavella at 3:32 PM on October 20, 2021 [1 favorite]

As a life-long Baltimoron, I will never watch The Wire and you can't make me. It's done more harm to this city than just about anything else.

How so? Genuinely interested.

The Wire is based on David Simon's experience as a crime writer in Baltimore in the early 1980s. In the ensuing 30 years, a lot of effort went into changing a lot of the problems referenced in the show. And, of course, it's sensationalized and fictionalized in order to make an exciting show.

But everyone I've spoken to believes that it is a 100% accurate representation of Baltimore, and that Baltimore is, therefore, a complete shithole. Like all good-sized American cities, it has its issues, and yes, we still have problems of corruption in the police department. But there are also a lot of good people in this city trying to do the right thing and combat oppression and fight for racial equality and all that.

I was attending law school in DC when The Wire was on the air, and when I would tell people that I was planning to work in Baltimore, they would say "Oooh Baltimore? But it's so dangerous." [Remember, this was in WASHINGTON DC.] I don't know why people can watch TV shows about New York or Chicago or LA and not assume that they represent the absolute truth about those cities, but are unable to do that with Baltimore.

If you want to see the real Baltimore, go watch Ace of Cakes.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 3:56 PM on October 20, 2021 [7 favorites]

I don’t really have anything to add about this list; it’s a list, there’s always going to be disagreement and debate. There are things I think ought to be higher on it (Watchmen), things I think ought to be lower/omitted (Sherlock, TBBT), things I’m satisfied with. There are shows I love that came up on individual critics’ lists but not the top 100. I started watching I May Destroy You last night because its high placement here reminded me that I have been meaning to.

No, I’m just here to two cents on Game of Thrones and people still watching it. The biggest reason to stop before the end is that the end turns out to be far less than the sum of its parts, and it’s depressing in a different way than the “everything is broken” messages in The Wire.

There is a tragedy bound up in the last season, but it’s so poorly executed in story terms that even formerly-invested people bounce off of it in anger. Newer viewers, and those who watch over a few weeks instead of slowly over a decade, do have the advantage of knowing which character goes completely to the dark side in the last few episodes, but I think even that — the potential perception that they were bad all along, rather than grey — takes away from the concept that their downfall is supposed to be tragic for both people involved.

But “the first four or five seasons are the only good ones and I’m stopping after four to five” (which I think a few people said here!) is honestly not the best approach, because S5 is generally considered a stinker apart from “Hardhome”, and it ends on an extraordinarily unsatisfying note of cliffhangers for several characters. Several of the show’s best episodes are at the end of S6, and it’s also a more satisfying conclusion, where major arcs seem to wrap up and the places are set for the story’s endgame.

I would strongly recommend continuing through s6, and if you’re going to stop anywhere, stop there. (Save yourselves. Friends don’t let friends watch 8x04. Etc.)
posted by verbminx at 4:02 PM on October 20, 2021 [2 favorites]

As someone who lived in the DC area up until two years before the Wire premiered, I can assure you the perception there of Baltimore as dangerous definitely preceded the Wire. The show may have exacerbated it, that I don't know, but it was not created by it.
posted by tavella at 4:05 PM on October 20, 2021 [5 favorites]

Veronica Mars made me seriously reconsider how television mysteries should play out. The balance of the weekly mystery and the overarching mystery meshed perfectly. The return series (although not the movie) was excellent. The first run-through made the Top 20 of the decade list on metacritic.
Also, Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 4:48 PM on October 20, 2021 [2 favorites]

But everyone I've spoken to believes that it is a 100% accurate representation of Baltimore, and that Baltimore is, therefore, a complete shithole.

OK, I totally get that. And I certainly had the same misguided ideas when I first watched the show, but have since learned better. Thanks for the insight :)
posted by Saxon Kane at 5:01 PM on October 20, 2021 [1 favorite]

Here are the Top 100 as ranked by raters at IMDB. They do include a lot more anime, a few non-English shows, and it really helps to have Planet in your title. (I cut out those from before 2000)

1. Planet Earth II (2016) 9.5
2. Planet Earth (2006) 9.4
3. Breaking Bad (2008) 9.4
4. Band of Brothers (2001) 9.4
5. Chernobyl (2019) 9.3
6. The Wire (2002) 9.3
7. Blue Planet II (2017) 9.3
8. Our Planet (2019) 9.2
9. Cosmos: A Spacetime Odyssey (2014) 9.2
10. Avatar: The Last Airbender (2005) 9.2
11. Game of Thrones (2011) 9.2
12. Rick and Morty (2013) 9.1
13. The Last Dance (2020) 9.1
14. Life (2009) 9.1
15. Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood (2009) 9.0
16. Sherlock (2010) 9.0
17. The Vietnam War (2017) 9.0
18. Scam 1992: The Harshad Mehta Story (2020) 9.0
19. The Blue Planet (2001) 9.0
20. Human Planet (2011) 9.0
21. Clarkson's Farm (2021) 8.9
22. Persona (2018) 8.9
23. Firefly (2002) 8.9
24. Frozen Planet (2011) 8.9
25. Death Note (2006) 8.9
26. True Detective (2014) 8.9
27. Attack on Titan (2013) 8.9
28. Fargo (2014) 8.9
29. Hunter x Hunter (2011) 8.9
30. When They See Us (2019) 8.9
31. The Office (2005) 8.8
32. Africa (2013) 8.8
33. Apocalypse: The Second World War (2009) 8.8
34. Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (2014) 8.8
35. Only Fools and Horses (1981) 8.8
36. TVF Pitchers (2015) 8.8
37. Gravity Falls (2012) 8.8
38. Nathan for You (2013) 8.8
39. Black Mirror (2011) 8.8
40. Over the Garden Wall (2014) 8.7
41. Kota Factory (2019) 8.7
42. Narcos (2015) 8.7
43. Ted Lasso (2020) 8.7
44. It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia (2005) 8.7
45. Better Call Saul (2015) 8.7
46. Chappelle's Show (2003) 8.7
47. The Mandalorian (2019) 8.7
48. Peaky Blinders (2014) 8.7
49. Dark (2017) 8.7
50. One Punch Man (2015) 8.7
51. Steins;Gate (2011) 8.7
52. BoJack Horseman (2014) 8.7
53. Rome (2005) 8.7
54. Curb Your Enthusiasm (2000) 8.7
55. Invincible (2021) 8.7
56. Vinland Saga (2019) 8.7
57. Fleabag (2016) 8.7
58. Leyla and Mecnun (2011) 8.7
59. Arrested Development (2003) 8.7
60. Stranger Things (2016) 8.6
61. Aspirants (2021) 8.6
62. Six Feet Under (2001) 8.6
63. The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel (2017) 8.6
64. The Boys (2019) 8.6
65. Succession (2018) 8.6
66. House of Cards (2013) 8.6
67. Battlestar Galactica (2004) 8.6
68. Justice League Unlimited (2004) 8.6
69. The Thick of It (2005) 8.6
70. House (2004) 8.6
71. The Jinx: The Life and Deaths of Robert Durst (2015) 8.6
72. The Shield (2002) 8.6
73. The Crown (2016) 8.6
74. It's a Sin (2021) 8.6
75. The Grand Tour (2016) 8.6
76. Downton Abbey (2010) 8.6
77. Line of Duty (2012) 8.6
78. Deadwood (2004) 8.6
79. Top Gear (2002) 8.6
80. Haikyuu!! (2014) 8.6
81. Atlanta (2016) 8.6
82. Formula 1: Drive to Survive (2019) 8.6
83. The Bridge (2011) 8.6
84. Mad Men (2007) 8.6
85. Gullak (2019) 8.6
86. Demon Slayer: Kimetsu no Yaiba (2019) 8.6
87. Code Geass (2006) 8.6
88. Sarabhai V/S Sarabhai (2004) 8.6
89. Parks and Recreation (2009) 8.6
90. Peep Show (2003) 8.6
91. Jujutsu Kaisen (2020) 8.6
92. Westworld (2016) 8.6
93. Friday Night Lights (2006) 8.6
94. Gomorrah (2014) 8.6
95. Young Justice (2010) 8.6
96. Mindhunter (2017) 8.6
97. Battlestar Galactica (2003) 8.6
98. Monster (2004) 8.6
99. The Haunting of Hill House (2018) 8.6
100. This Is Us (2016) 8.6

(Anne with an E would have been 101)
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:19 PM on October 20, 2021 [4 favorites]

I refuse to engage with any list that ranks Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood over Fullmetal Alchemist (2003). First, recasting Roy Mustang was a mistake, and even though I tend to like Shinichiro Miki, he's not as good when the role calls for some gravitas. Second, there's very little brotherhood. False advertising!

I have more to say, a lot more, but I'll save it for our 2071 discussion.
posted by betweenthebars at 5:36 PM on October 20, 2021 [3 favorites]

In 2071, the top show will be the comic-horror series: Trump! by the Coen grandkids.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:40 PM on October 20, 2021 [1 favorite]

I included Only Fools and Horses, 1981. Anne with an E is on the list!
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:41 PM on October 20, 2021 [1 favorite]

No list of top 100 shows should ever include one Jeremey Clarkson entry, let alone two.
posted by sardonyx at 7:22 PM on October 20, 2021 [1 favorite]

I refuse to engage with any list that ranks Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood over Fullmetal Alchemist (2003).

You're allowed to have your opinion, even if it's wrong.
posted by Pendragon at 12:50 AM on October 21, 2021 [3 favorites]

The Great British Sewing Bee deserves to be in the top five.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 5:02 AM on October 21, 2021 [1 favorite]

My wife was asked to submit her votes for this list. She couldn't be bothered. I let her know how miffed I was to lose bragging rights in this thread.
posted by signal at 6:18 AM on October 21, 2021 [5 favorites]

ChurchHatesTucker and others re:anime

GITS: Standalone Complex
The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya
Angel Beats!

I'm with you on these. A few of my strong adds would be:

Puella Magi Madoka Magica - e10 is one of the greatest tv show episodes of all time, irrepsective of format
Neon Genesis Evangelion - A Manual for Self-Identifying Depression and Disorder in Adolescents and Adults
Bakemonogatari series - One of the greatest slideshows ever written. Come for the magical realism, stay for the dialog.
Gunslinger Girl - Art. "Cute girls with guns" so thoroughly eviscerated that the genre/trope should have ended right there (from the s2-never-happened dept).
Serial Experiments Lain - What monumental prescie{#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER
posted by glonous keming at 10:43 AM on October 22, 2021 [3 favorites]