Michigan attorney general charges 'false electors'
July 19, 2023 8:51 AM Subscribe
Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel announced Tuesday that she has filed charges against 16 people who signed paperwork falsely claiming that President Donald Trump had won the 2020 election as part of a scheme to overturn the results.
Each person has been charged with eight crimes that carry a combined maximum of 85 years in prison. They are the first public charges against any of the "alternate electors" who tried to overturn the 2020 election in several states.
Each person has been charged with eight crimes that carry a combined maximum of 85 years in prison. They are the first public charges against any of the "alternate electors" who tried to overturn the 2020 election in several states.
This remains an ongoing investigation, and the Michigan Department of Attorney General has not ruled out potential charges against additional defendants.
These sixteen Republicans did not act alone to overthrow the federal government. Hopefully, one or more of them recognize the severity of the situation they are in — or have an impartial lawyer explain it to them — and turn in other co-conspirators not yet charged.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:05 AM on July 19, 2023 [32 favorites]
These sixteen Republicans did not act alone to overthrow the federal government. Hopefully, one or more of them recognize the severity of the situation they are in — or have an impartial lawyer explain it to them — and turn in other co-conspirators not yet charged.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:05 AM on July 19, 2023 [32 favorites]
I guess a state AG can't charge treason?
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:06 AM on July 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:06 AM on July 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
This is the actual no foolin' election fraud. As opposed to the massive voter fraud that the right wing always claims happens 3 million at a time in California, but only they keep getting arrested for for some reason.
Lock 'em up.
posted by Horkus at 9:09 AM on July 19, 2023 [59 favorites]
Lock 'em up.
posted by Horkus at 9:09 AM on July 19, 2023 [59 favorites]
This is one of those instances so egregious, that my usual concerns about the carceral state are completely muted.
posted by Dark Messiah at 9:09 AM on July 19, 2023 [32 favorites]
posted by Dark Messiah at 9:09 AM on July 19, 2023 [32 favorites]
A snippet of Nessel's remarks that didn't make it into the text of multiple news articles on this story. [5:27 in linked video]
“Undoubtedly, there will be those who will claim these charges are political in nature. But where there is overwhelming evidence of guilt in respect to multiple crimes, the most political act I could engage in as a prosecutor would be to take no action at all."
Apparently she referred the fake electors to the justice department in Jan 2022, but reopened the case when the feds had done nothing.
"They weren’t the duly elected and qualified electors, and each of the defendants knew it. They carried out these actions with the hope and belief that the electoral votes of Michigan’s 2020 election would be awarded to the candidate of their choosing, instead of the candidate that Michigan voters actually chose.
...
This plan – to reject the will of the voters and undermine democracy – was fraudulent and legally baseless. The False Electors’ actions undermined the public’s faith in the integrity of our elections, and not only violated the spirit of the laws enshrining and defending our democracy but, we believe, also plainly violated the laws by which we administer our elections in Michigan and peaceably transfer power in America."
The 16 people charged include Meshawn Maddock, a former co-chair of the Michigan Republican party, and Kathy Berden, a national commiteewoman for the Republican National Committee. The other 14 fake electors held various connections to the state and local party.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 9:10 AM on July 19, 2023 [58 favorites]
“Undoubtedly, there will be those who will claim these charges are political in nature. But where there is overwhelming evidence of guilt in respect to multiple crimes, the most political act I could engage in as a prosecutor would be to take no action at all."
Apparently she referred the fake electors to the justice department in Jan 2022, but reopened the case when the feds had done nothing.
"They weren’t the duly elected and qualified electors, and each of the defendants knew it. They carried out these actions with the hope and belief that the electoral votes of Michigan’s 2020 election would be awarded to the candidate of their choosing, instead of the candidate that Michigan voters actually chose.
...
This plan – to reject the will of the voters and undermine democracy – was fraudulent and legally baseless. The False Electors’ actions undermined the public’s faith in the integrity of our elections, and not only violated the spirit of the laws enshrining and defending our democracy but, we believe, also plainly violated the laws by which we administer our elections in Michigan and peaceably transfer power in America."
The 16 people charged include Meshawn Maddock, a former co-chair of the Michigan Republican party, and Kathy Berden, a national commiteewoman for the Republican National Committee. The other 14 fake electors held various connections to the state and local party.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 9:10 AM on July 19, 2023 [58 favorites]
As opposed to the massive voter fraud that the right wing always claims happens 3 million at a time in California, but only they keep getting arrested for for some reason.
It's really safe to assume that every accusation is actually a confession from these types.
posted by Dark Messiah at 9:11 AM on July 19, 2023 [27 favorites]
It's really safe to assume that every accusation is actually a confession from these types.
posted by Dark Messiah at 9:11 AM on July 19, 2023 [27 favorites]
I'll tell you what folks, we're getting more indictments than anyone has ever had before. So many indictments. From the smallest indictments to the biggest indictments. They said it wasn't possible, that it could never happen. They were wrong. It's sad, how wrong they were about our indictments. And it's not over yet. Lots of people are telling me that the biggest indictment is yet to come. The best, most serious people who will still take the money I pretend I will pay them.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:11 AM on July 19, 2023 [37 favorites]
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:11 AM on July 19, 2023 [37 favorites]
“Undoubtedly, there will be those who will claim these charges are political in nature. But where there is overwhelming evidence of guilt in respect to multiple crimes, the most political act I could engage in as a prosecutor would be to take no action at all."
Words I wish others heeded.
posted by Artw at 9:11 AM on July 19, 2023 [68 favorites]
Words I wish others heeded.
posted by Artw at 9:11 AM on July 19, 2023 [68 favorites]
The paperwork for the electoral college is supposed to be the Certificate of Ascertainment and the Certificate of Vote. The Certificate of Ascertainment is signed by the Governor and Secretary of State who also applies a state seal. I think the Certificate of Vote is just made up and signed by the electors, but then it's sealed with the state seal and accompanied by a statement of authenticity signed and sealed by the Secretary of State.
It'd be interesting to see what they sent over. I assume they wouldn't have forged signatures, but maybe they would have put a fake state seal on it, because impersonating a state is not a crime people do very often.
posted by netowl at 9:22 AM on July 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
It'd be interesting to see what they sent over. I assume they wouldn't have forged signatures, but maybe they would have put a fake state seal on it, because impersonating a state is not a crime people do very often.
posted by netowl at 9:22 AM on July 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
"Michele Lundgren, who was also charged, has told NBC affiliate WDIV of Detroit that she thought she was signing an attendance sheet for a meeting.
"I didn't even know what an elector was, let alone a fake elector," she told the station.""
Further evidence that Michigan is a land with no irony.
posted by clavdivs at 9:23 AM on July 19, 2023 [13 favorites]
"I didn't even know what an elector was, let alone a fake elector," she told the station.""
Further evidence that Michigan is a land with no irony.
posted by clavdivs at 9:23 AM on July 19, 2023 [13 favorites]
Your red-hatted uncle will pound the dinner table the next chance that he's able, screeching how "The DEMOCRATS did it FIRST! In Hawaii in 1960! So I guess it's okay when THEY CHEAT, HUH?"
So, let's examine that claim. (POLITICO, Kyle Cheney)
The short version is that there are some similarities; the three Democratic wannabe-electors in 1960 filed certificates that were structurally similar to what most Trump wannabe-electors filed, for instance. (In PA and NM, Trump certificates clarified that they were NOT currently the prevailing electors, but that they would be if court decisions overturned the state's election their way at a later date.) The judge determined that the initial filing by the three Dems was not with fraudulent intent, but that their timely meeting was a key step that preserved their ability to be counted after the recount showed Kennedy had actually won the state.
However... in 1960, the margin of victory was 140 votes before the recount, a recount was underway and incomplete at the time of the electoral certification, and there was thus substantial doubt as to who had actually won the state. As compared to, y'know, a clear victor by a substantial margin, a cavalcade of frivolous lawsuits (with plenty of screaming about fraud, but no actual legal allegations of fraud because screaming under oath is different than screaming on Newsmax), and demanding that fake certificates be treated with equal weight LONG after the legal battles over who'd won had ended.
The 1960 fracas was described as "not a binding legal precedent at any stage," but it's all we have to go on in the modern era.
posted by delfin at 9:28 AM on July 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
So, let's examine that claim. (POLITICO, Kyle Cheney)
The short version is that there are some similarities; the three Democratic wannabe-electors in 1960 filed certificates that were structurally similar to what most Trump wannabe-electors filed, for instance. (In PA and NM, Trump certificates clarified that they were NOT currently the prevailing electors, but that they would be if court decisions overturned the state's election their way at a later date.) The judge determined that the initial filing by the three Dems was not with fraudulent intent, but that their timely meeting was a key step that preserved their ability to be counted after the recount showed Kennedy had actually won the state.
However... in 1960, the margin of victory was 140 votes before the recount, a recount was underway and incomplete at the time of the electoral certification, and there was thus substantial doubt as to who had actually won the state. As compared to, y'know, a clear victor by a substantial margin, a cavalcade of frivolous lawsuits (with plenty of screaming about fraud, but no actual legal allegations of fraud because screaming under oath is different than screaming on Newsmax), and demanding that fake certificates be treated with equal weight LONG after the legal battles over who'd won had ended.
The 1960 fracas was described as "not a binding legal precedent at any stage," but it's all we have to go on in the modern era.
posted by delfin at 9:28 AM on July 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
I saw the list at some point and was struck by how old they all are. I think the oldest was 88 with the majority in their 70’s.
posted by misterpatrick at 9:29 AM on July 19, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by misterpatrick at 9:29 AM on July 19, 2023 [9 favorites]
SURELY. THIS.
posted by ZakDaddy at 9:33 AM on July 19, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by ZakDaddy at 9:33 AM on July 19, 2023 [9 favorites]
Sometimes, when you're that old and you have a chance to act, you tell yourself, "What can the law do to me that nature already hasn't?"
posted by delfin at 9:34 AM on July 19, 2023 [11 favorites]
posted by delfin at 9:34 AM on July 19, 2023 [11 favorites]
Detroit Free Press captured the actual moment these knuckleheads tried to enter the capitol building.
posted by JoeZydeco at 9:36 AM on July 19, 2023 [34 favorites]
posted by JoeZydeco at 9:36 AM on July 19, 2023 [34 favorites]
"Michele Lundgren, who was also charged, has told NBC affiliate WDIV of Detroit that she thought she was signing an attendance sheet for a meeting.
"I didn't even know what an elector was, let alone a fake elector," she told the station."
OMG the number of timeshares this woman must own.
posted by PlusDistance at 9:37 AM on July 19, 2023 [83 favorites]
"I didn't even know what an elector was, let alone a fake elector," she told the station."
OMG the number of timeshares this woman must own.
posted by PlusDistance at 9:37 AM on July 19, 2023 [83 favorites]
SURELY. THIS.
By my measurement these are actual non-delayed consequences, astonishing to see in this day and age.
posted by Artw at 9:41 AM on July 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
By my measurement these are actual non-delayed consequences, astonishing to see in this day and age.
posted by Artw at 9:41 AM on July 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
Detroit Free Press captured the actual moment yt these knuckleheads tried to enter the capitol building.
Tall guy on the door there doing a great job (and also reminding why I am wholly unsuited to whole range of public-facing jobs).
posted by Calvin and the Duplicators at 9:51 AM on July 19, 2023 [16 favorites]
Tall guy on the door there doing a great job (and also reminding why I am wholly unsuited to whole range of public-facing jobs).
posted by Calvin and the Duplicators at 9:51 AM on July 19, 2023 [16 favorites]
Rachel Maddow clip comparing the forged elector letters across various states.
(Spoiler: they're all identically formatted, indicating a coordinated effort.)
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:59 AM on July 19, 2023 [50 favorites]
(Spoiler: they're all identically formatted, indicating a coordinated effort.)
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:59 AM on July 19, 2023 [50 favorites]
Sometimes, when you're that old and you have a chance to act, you tell yourself, "What can the law do to me that nature already hasn't?"
Well hopefully they get to spend a substantial portion of their remaining years pondering that question in a lonely locked concrete box. If Elizabeth Holmes can get11 9 years for defrauding a few rich people, one would hope that knowingly attempting to defraud 2.8 million Michigan voters out of their duly elected representatives, as a significant part of the larger conspiracy to overthrow the legally elected US government is worth some time in the slammer - along with the orange orchestrator of said attempted violent coup.
To discourage some of them from trying again next year, at least.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 10:21 AM on July 19, 2023 [18 favorites]
Well hopefully they get to spend a substantial portion of their remaining years pondering that question in a lonely locked concrete box. If Elizabeth Holmes can get
To discourage some of them from trying again next year, at least.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 10:21 AM on July 19, 2023 [18 favorites]
Feeling pretty good to be a Michigander these days. We're lucky to have such a good governor, and Dem control of both state legislative houses. The news of these indictments was very cheering. Seeing people suffer consequences for this blatant effort to undermine democracy has been heartening even as things are getting worse in many ways.
posted by Well I never at 10:25 AM on July 19, 2023 [22 favorites]
posted by Well I never at 10:25 AM on July 19, 2023 [22 favorites]
JoeZydeco: "Detroit Free Press captured the actual moment these knuckleheads tried to enter the capitol building."
I'm 99.8% sure the taller officer in the background is one of my old college buddies, MI State Police, often working security for the governor. And the spouse of another college buddy is an Asst DA for the state. Wonder if either has any fun inside dirt here...
posted by caution live frogs at 10:44 AM on July 19, 2023 [10 favorites]
I'm 99.8% sure the taller officer in the background is one of my old college buddies, MI State Police, often working security for the governor. And the spouse of another college buddy is an Asst DA for the state. Wonder if either has any fun inside dirt here...
posted by caution live frogs at 10:44 AM on July 19, 2023 [10 favorites]
(seconds after posting that, my friend confirmed that he was there at the door)
posted by caution live frogs at 10:50 AM on July 19, 2023 [27 favorites]
posted by caution live frogs at 10:50 AM on July 19, 2023 [27 favorites]
It looks like American Oversight tracked down the actual fake documents. It looks like some of the states changed the "duly elected" language to something more conditional, but Michigan didn't.
posted by netowl at 10:55 AM on July 19, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by netowl at 10:55 AM on July 19, 2023 [9 favorites]
>Detroit Free Press captured the actual moment these knuckleheads tried to enter the capitol building.
Wow, that's a bunch of guilty people trying to get in and is not going to look good in court.
posted by Catblack at 10:56 AM on July 19, 2023 [7 favorites]
Wow, that's a bunch of guilty people trying to get in and is not going to look good in court.
posted by Catblack at 10:56 AM on July 19, 2023 [7 favorites]
As a pollworker, let me say... LOCK THESE FUCKERS UP. I wish there was "contempt of election officials" the way there's "contempt of court."
posted by humbug at 11:04 AM on July 19, 2023 [21 favorites]
posted by humbug at 11:04 AM on July 19, 2023 [21 favorites]
Of course these charges are political in nature. The crimes were political in nature.
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:17 AM on July 19, 2023 [15 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:17 AM on July 19, 2023 [15 favorites]
misterpatrick: I saw the list at some point and was struck by how old they all are. I think the oldest was 88 with the majority in their 70’s.
That is a strategic choice. Play up the doddering elderly angle complete with “newly-found” mobility and neurological impairments and it’s got a great chance of swaying a jury.
The GOP has been examining every nut and bolt of the blueprints to US elections and have not been afraid to use those weaknesses to whatever advantage they can. Difference is, in the Hollywood heist movie, the mastermind eventually gets caught. It’s not terribly encouraging that the plotters evade justice while the foot soldiers get caught up.
posted by dr_dank at 11:21 AM on July 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
That is a strategic choice. Play up the doddering elderly angle complete with “newly-found” mobility and neurological impairments and it’s got a great chance of swaying a jury.
The GOP has been examining every nut and bolt of the blueprints to US elections and have not been afraid to use those weaknesses to whatever advantage they can. Difference is, in the Hollywood heist movie, the mastermind eventually gets caught. It’s not terribly encouraging that the plotters evade justice while the foot soldiers get caught up.
posted by dr_dank at 11:21 AM on July 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
Of course these charges are political in nature. The crimes were political in nature.
I've always hated that someone can yell "political!" and expect everyone to treat it like a valid complaint in every case, and how many people give weight to it, especially in the media. Like yeah, this administration got elected in part to deal with this, damn right it's political and so is every action by anyone in any authority, elected or appointed or even self-appointed, you have to make political calculations big and small when exercising authority of any kind. You have to make political calculations as a parent and choose what you do and don't exercise authority on because of the reality of the moment for chrissakes. It doesn't mean it's political persecution or false charges to score political advantage, which is what they imply by saying "political" and relying on the average person's dislike of anything political and the handwringing media to carry the implication to its unspoken vague nasty conclusions.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:30 AM on July 19, 2023 [19 favorites]
I've always hated that someone can yell "political!" and expect everyone to treat it like a valid complaint in every case, and how many people give weight to it, especially in the media. Like yeah, this administration got elected in part to deal with this, damn right it's political and so is every action by anyone in any authority, elected or appointed or even self-appointed, you have to make political calculations big and small when exercising authority of any kind. You have to make political calculations as a parent and choose what you do and don't exercise authority on because of the reality of the moment for chrissakes. It doesn't mean it's political persecution or false charges to score political advantage, which is what they imply by saying "political" and relying on the average person's dislike of anything political and the handwringing media to carry the implication to its unspoken vague nasty conclusions.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:30 AM on July 19, 2023 [19 favorites]
Michele Lundgren, who was also charged, has told NBC affiliate WDIV of Detroit that she thought she was signing an attendance sheet for a meeting.
The giant banner at the top of the sheet reading "IN WITNESS WHEREOF..." didn't trigger a single question?
posted by hanov3r at 11:33 AM on July 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
The giant banner at the top of the sheet reading "IN WITNESS WHEREOF..." didn't trigger a single question?
posted by hanov3r at 11:33 AM on July 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
Well I hope the case doesn't hinge on proving beyond a reasonable doubt that they understood "in witness whereof".
posted by ryanrs at 11:46 AM on July 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by ryanrs at 11:46 AM on July 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
I've always hated that someone can yell "political!" and expect everyone to treat it like a valid complaint in every case, and how many people give weight to it, especially in the media.
It's not as if the Republicans and their pet Mirror Universe Media outlets would throw multitudes of accusations out into the public at the slightest provocation, dare the other side to prove a negative, link prominent Democrats to the foulest crimes imaginable in the minds of the CHUD base, and prove unable to provide any substantial evidence when pressed, so as to attempt to achieve political victories based on FUD and lies rather than policy outcomes.
*checks notes* Ah, I'm sorry, that's the one thing that they do more than any other. Carry on.
posted by delfin at 12:04 PM on July 19, 2023 [10 favorites]
It's not as if the Republicans and their pet Mirror Universe Media outlets would throw multitudes of accusations out into the public at the slightest provocation, dare the other side to prove a negative, link prominent Democrats to the foulest crimes imaginable in the minds of the CHUD base, and prove unable to provide any substantial evidence when pressed, so as to attempt to achieve political victories based on FUD and lies rather than policy outcomes.
*checks notes* Ah, I'm sorry, that's the one thing that they do more than any other. Carry on.
posted by delfin at 12:04 PM on July 19, 2023 [10 favorites]
That video is what gets them convicted.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 12:22 PM on July 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 12:22 PM on July 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a: That video is what gets them convicted.
From your mouth to the jury's ears.
posted by tzikeh at 12:32 PM on July 19, 2023 [12 favorites]
From your mouth to the jury's ears.
posted by tzikeh at 12:32 PM on July 19, 2023 [12 favorites]
I've always hated that someone can yell "political!" and expect everyone to treat it like a valid complaint in every case
Dismissing something in this fashion simply means "politics I don't like."
posted by Dark Messiah at 12:45 PM on July 19, 2023 [10 favorites]
Dismissing something in this fashion simply means "politics I don't like."
posted by Dark Messiah at 12:45 PM on July 19, 2023 [10 favorites]
she thought she was signing an attendance sheet for a meeting.
If your defense is a TVTropes page that has Donald Duck as the illustrative example, you are probably in the wrong.
posted by credulous at 12:58 PM on July 19, 2023 [11 favorites]
If your defense is a TVTropes page that has Donald Duck as the illustrative example, you are probably in the wrong.
posted by credulous at 12:58 PM on July 19, 2023 [11 favorites]
I think the oldest was 88 with the majority in their 70’s.
Hey, now. There were a handful of whippersnappers in their mid-50s! To quote the immortal Principal Moss, “If those kids could read, they’d be very upset.”
Speaking of which…
"I didn't even know what an elector was, let alone a fake elector”
This from a 73-year-old woman who went on to run (unsuccessfully) for a state house seat. She added, “If we had any information about it being untoward or illegal, we would not have done it.”
Rare is the conservative white person who thinks any given law applies to them.
posted by armeowda at 2:00 PM on July 19, 2023 [24 favorites]
Hey, now. There were a handful of whippersnappers in their mid-50s! To quote the immortal Principal Moss, “If those kids could read, they’d be very upset.”
Speaking of which…
"I didn't even know what an elector was, let alone a fake elector”
This from a 73-year-old woman who went on to run (unsuccessfully) for a state house seat. She added, “If we had any information about it being untoward or illegal, we would not have done it.”
Rare is the conservative white person who thinks any given law applies to them.
posted by armeowda at 2:00 PM on July 19, 2023 [24 favorites]
> "I didn't even know what an elector was, let alone a fake elector”
This from a 73-year-old woman who went on to run (unsuccessfully) for a state house seat.
And who I'm pretty sure is in the video posted earlier, wearing a red "Make America Great Again" beanie, standing next to the pontificating loudmouth through a good chunk of the latter half of the video. But, of course, people are going to take her statement at face value.
posted by hanov3r at 2:06 PM on July 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
This from a 73-year-old woman who went on to run (unsuccessfully) for a state house seat.
And who I'm pretty sure is in the video posted earlier, wearing a red "Make America Great Again" beanie, standing next to the pontificating loudmouth through a good chunk of the latter half of the video. But, of course, people are going to take her statement at face value.
posted by hanov3r at 2:06 PM on July 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
She added, “If we had any information about it being untoward or illegal, we would not have done it.”
If I'd had any information that sticking this sharp knife into that guy's heart would be felony murder, I wouldn't have done it.
posted by axiom at 2:19 PM on July 19, 2023 [13 favorites]
If I'd had any information that sticking this sharp knife into that guy's heart would be felony murder, I wouldn't have done it.
posted by axiom at 2:19 PM on July 19, 2023 [13 favorites]
hanov3r: Ah, touché!
From the party who brought us “F*** your pronouns”: proudly self-identifying as a three-syllable, eighth-grade-civics vocabulary word you swear you can’t define.
posted by armeowda at 2:22 PM on July 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
From the party who brought us “F*** your pronouns”: proudly self-identifying as a three-syllable, eighth-grade-civics vocabulary word you swear you can’t define.
posted by armeowda at 2:22 PM on July 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
I've always hated that someone can yell "political!" and expect everyone to treat it like a valid complaint in every case
I note that the people who say one party cannot prosecute a President from another party are also the people who insisted a sitting President cannot be prosecuted.
So I guess they're saying... a President can only be prosecuted if his own party chooses to do so after he leaves office?
It bears mention that the reason we do not have a well-developed process for handling this is that, generally speaking, Presidents of the United fucking States do not typically commit a whole bunch of well-documented fucking crimes.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 2:49 PM on July 19, 2023 [15 favorites]
I note that the people who say one party cannot prosecute a President from another party are also the people who insisted a sitting President cannot be prosecuted.
So I guess they're saying... a President can only be prosecuted if his own party chooses to do so after he leaves office?
It bears mention that the reason we do not have a well-developed process for handling this is that, generally speaking, Presidents of the United fucking States do not typically commit a whole bunch of well-documented fucking crimes.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 2:49 PM on July 19, 2023 [15 favorites]
I like in the FOIAed documents how many electors had to be replaced by subs, because clearly a lot of people thought what they were doing was probably illegal. Also how the one with space for Brian Kemp's signature is blank. He may be an ignorant asshole, but he's not going to prison for a bunch of other ignorant assholes.
posted by hydropsyche at 3:02 PM on July 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 3:02 PM on July 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
NBC News has reported that Doug Ducey is cooperating with the special counsel in the investigation into overturning the 2022 election. Arizona had a slate of fake electors ready to go but Ducey wasn’t having it, and he followed the law and certified Biden’s win. Turn over every rock and find every one of these shitbirds.
posted by azpenguin at 4:16 PM on July 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by azpenguin at 4:16 PM on July 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
It's really safe to assume that every accusation is actually a confession from these types.
I always say that if a Republican senator starts making a lot of speeches about all these sinister cults sacrificing children to Satan, check his basement.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 4:29 PM on July 19, 2023 [14 favorites]
I always say that if a Republican senator starts making a lot of speeches about all these sinister cults sacrificing children to Satan, check his basement.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 4:29 PM on July 19, 2023 [14 favorites]
Ducey ignoring a Trump phone call with a Hail to the Chief ringtone on TV during certification was one of the funnier things to come out of that hell maw of a presidency
posted by jason_steakums at 4:35 PM on July 19, 2023 [21 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 4:35 PM on July 19, 2023 [21 favorites]
Detroit Free Press captured the actual moment these knuckleheads tried to enter the capitol building.
"We're electors."
"The electors are already here and they've been checked in."
"All 16 electors that we've been advised by the governor's staff...[are] already here."
"But these are the rest of the electors."
posted by kirkaracha at 4:38 PM on July 19, 2023 [10 favorites]
"We're electors."
"The electors are already here and they've been checked in."
"All 16 electors that we've been advised by the governor's staff...[are] already here."
"But these are the rest of the electors."
posted by kirkaracha at 4:38 PM on July 19, 2023 [10 favorites]
...math is hard...
posted by hydra77 at 4:39 PM on July 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by hydra77 at 4:39 PM on July 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
I always say that if a Republican senator starts making a lot of speeches about all these sinister cults sacrificing children to Satan, check his basement.
Whenever someone who is part of an in-group makes accusations against the corresponding out-group, it can be safely assumed to be a combination of confession and misdirection.
posted by JohnFromGR at 2:33 AM on July 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
Whenever someone who is part of an in-group makes accusations against the corresponding out-group, it can be safely assumed to be a combination of confession and misdirection.
posted by JohnFromGR at 2:33 AM on July 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
Since we're in Michigan, another oldie-but-goodie:
Fucking elections, how do they work?
posted by box at 5:42 AM on July 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
Fucking elections, how do they work?
posted by box at 5:42 AM on July 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
Rare is the conservative white person who thinks any given law applies to them.
posted by Gelatin at 6:09 AM on July 20, 2023 [11 favorites]
Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect--Wilhoit's Law
posted by Gelatin at 6:09 AM on July 20, 2023 [11 favorites]
Wilhoit's law is not off the mark at all and I'm a big fan of the phrasing, but it's so funny to me that it was not created by Frank Wilhoit the political scientist, but Frank Wilhoit the some other guy in a blog comment, and it's maybe the one thing that the political scientist is most (erroneously) known for
posted by jason_steakums at 6:20 AM on July 20, 2023 [14 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 6:20 AM on July 20, 2023 [14 favorites]
Ducey ignoring a Trump phone call with a Hail to the Chief ringtone on TV during certification was one of the funnier things to come out of that hell maw of a presidency
It was also perfect synecdoche for what was happening nationally, staged so clearly it would be bad theater if it weren't real.
posted by LooseFilter at 7:07 AM on July 20, 2023 [5 favorites]
It was also perfect synecdoche for what was happening nationally, staged so clearly it would be bad theater if it weren't real.
posted by LooseFilter at 7:07 AM on July 20, 2023 [5 favorites]
Give ‘em hell, Dana!
posted by oldnumberseven at 7:38 PM on July 22, 2023
posted by oldnumberseven at 7:38 PM on July 22, 2023
« Older Grudge Match | THREE MILES OF CANVASS Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by Windopaene at 8:53 AM on July 19, 2023 [60 favorites]