Five year prison sentence for attending a Zoom call.
July 18, 2024 9:02 AM Subscribe
Reported by The Guardian. Five supporters of the Just Stop Oil climate campaign who conspired to cause gridlock on London’s orbital motorway have been sentenced to lengthy jail terms. Roger Hallam, Daniel Shaw, Louise Lancaster, Lucia Whittaker De Abreu and Cressida Gethin were found guilty last week of conspiracy to cause a public nuisance for coordinating direct action protests on the M25 over four days in November 2022. Hallam received a five year sentence on Thursday, while the other four were each sentenced to four years. All five had spoken on a Zoom call trying to recruit potential volunteers for the actions, which involved activists climbing motorway gantries at strategic points on the motorway, which encircles London and is a key road transport link.
This hurts my head and my heart. Especially fresh on the heels of our first year long breach of 1.5 degree increase in temperature.
posted by dogbusonline at 9:18 AM on July 18 [12 favorites]
posted by dogbusonline at 9:18 AM on July 18 [12 favorites]
5 YEARS?!
posted by notyou at 9:32 AM on July 18 [3 favorites]
posted by notyou at 9:32 AM on July 18 [3 favorites]
I think JSO is pissing off the general public and thus destroying support for climate activism. I also suspect this is deliberate, on the part of one or more provocateurs embedded on the planning level.
Instead of blocking roads and splashing paint on treasured artifacts, they should instead be targetting oil executives homes ,their conferences, their businesses. They should be exposing connections to politicians and bureaucrats.
posted by CynicalKnight at 9:37 AM on July 18 [17 favorites]
Instead of blocking roads and splashing paint on treasured artifacts, they should instead be targetting oil executives homes ,their conferences, their businesses. They should be exposing connections to politicians and bureaucrats.
posted by CynicalKnight at 9:37 AM on July 18 [17 favorites]
Those sentences are all longer than what people typically get for running someone over with a car.
posted by srboisvert at 9:57 AM on July 18 [28 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 9:57 AM on July 18 [28 favorites]
The zoom call angle seems clickbaity to me. They didn't get 5 years for a zoom call they got five years for conspiracy. Could have been based on phone records or a spy in an in person meeting just as easily. The thing we should focus on is why does the government feel empowered to enforce such a law / ask for such a severe sentence. That should be what provokes outrage!
posted by Wretch729 at 10:00 AM on July 18 [16 favorites]
posted by Wretch729 at 10:00 AM on July 18 [16 favorites]
I think JSO is pissing off the general public and thus destroying support for climate activism.
Yeah, to hell with the Jerusalem Symphony Orchestra.
But seriously, or whatever adverb may apply ...
I remember Jello Biafra once commenting on the most effective prank he'd ever heard of, which was completely unintentional. San Francisco rush hour. A truck carrying an unspecified load of something got into an accident on a major thoroughfare and suddenly there was all this whitish powder stuff unleashed, blowing everywhere. A major emergency got declared. Entire freeways were shut down. Hazmat crews showed up. By the time they realized it was just a bunch of icing sugar, the whole city had pretty much stopped functioning due to this "toxic" spill.
I can't recall the moral he affixed to it all. Maybe something like, if any idiot can crash the system without even trying, maybe that's not really where we should be focusing our energies. Assuming we actually wish to achieve meaningful change as opposed to just hurling wrenches into various works, getting off on the mayhem.
posted by philip-random at 10:03 AM on July 18 [5 favorites]
Yeah, to hell with the Jerusalem Symphony Orchestra.
But seriously, or whatever adverb may apply ...
I remember Jello Biafra once commenting on the most effective prank he'd ever heard of, which was completely unintentional. San Francisco rush hour. A truck carrying an unspecified load of something got into an accident on a major thoroughfare and suddenly there was all this whitish powder stuff unleashed, blowing everywhere. A major emergency got declared. Entire freeways were shut down. Hazmat crews showed up. By the time they realized it was just a bunch of icing sugar, the whole city had pretty much stopped functioning due to this "toxic" spill.
I can't recall the moral he affixed to it all. Maybe something like, if any idiot can crash the system without even trying, maybe that's not really where we should be focusing our energies. Assuming we actually wish to achieve meaningful change as opposed to just hurling wrenches into various works, getting off on the mayhem.
posted by philip-random at 10:03 AM on July 18 [5 favorites]
If you want to know what forms of protest are effective at creating change...
But that's the thing: has this been effective at creating change? I know there's a school of thought along the lines of "if we're pissing people off we must be doing something right" but I don't think that's true.
Has there been any attempt to assess the impact of these protests? Do they actually measurably change attitudes or increase support for climate action? Have they led to any actual regulations or laws?
I'm not being glib, I'd genuinely like to know because it would help in assessing how useful these things actually are because there's another school of thought along the lines of "at least they're doing something and something is better than nothing!" which, again, I'm not so sure about. It's possible these actions may actually be counterproductive in terms of their stated goals.
posted by star gentle uterus at 10:18 AM on July 18 [13 favorites]
But that's the thing: has this been effective at creating change? I know there's a school of thought along the lines of "if we're pissing people off we must be doing something right" but I don't think that's true.
Has there been any attempt to assess the impact of these protests? Do they actually measurably change attitudes or increase support for climate action? Have they led to any actual regulations or laws?
I'm not being glib, I'd genuinely like to know because it would help in assessing how useful these things actually are because there's another school of thought along the lines of "at least they're doing something and something is better than nothing!" which, again, I'm not so sure about. It's possible these actions may actually be counterproductive in terms of their stated goals.
posted by star gentle uterus at 10:18 AM on July 18 [13 favorites]
Instead of blocking roads and splashing paint on treasured artifacts, they should instead be targetting oil executives homes ,their conferences, their businesses. They should be exposing connections to politicians and bureaucrats.
posted by CynicalKnight at 9:37 AM on July 18 [1 favorite +] [⚑]
Have you tried to organize such an action? My experience with organizing people to do activist things, even very legal things, is it's hard. Therefore, my rule of thumb is, folks who are actively engaged in the fight should be the ones to give notes on other people's strategies, tactics and targets. If you're putting yourself on the line for the climate, I'm here for your critiques. If not, I'm not so interested in armchair pronouncements like these.
posted by latkes at 10:18 AM on July 18 [28 favorites]
posted by CynicalKnight at 9:37 AM on July 18 [1 favorite +] [⚑]
Have you tried to organize such an action? My experience with organizing people to do activist things, even very legal things, is it's hard. Therefore, my rule of thumb is, folks who are actively engaged in the fight should be the ones to give notes on other people's strategies, tactics and targets. If you're putting yourself on the line for the climate, I'm here for your critiques. If not, I'm not so interested in armchair pronouncements like these.
posted by latkes at 10:18 AM on July 18 [28 favorites]
Therefore, my rule of thumb is, folks who are actively engaged in the fight should be the ones to give notes on other people's strategies, tactics and targets.
But that doesn't follow at all. Such people probably have a better idea on organizing and executing actions but there's no reason to believe they have any better perspective on their effectiveness.
posted by star gentle uterus at 10:22 AM on July 18 [7 favorites]
But that doesn't follow at all. Such people probably have a better idea on organizing and executing actions but there's no reason to believe they have any better perspective on their effectiveness.
posted by star gentle uterus at 10:22 AM on July 18 [7 favorites]
It's not that I think activists are always right, it's that I think complaining about activists' choices from the comfort of our laptops undermines the people actually doing something while contributing nothing to the effort ourselves. It's like sitting on the couch giving advice on what to make for dinner and how to cook it it while someone else is in the kitchen sweating and actually feeding everyone. Sure, their recipe maybe could have been better but if you have a better idea for dinner get in the kitchen and start chopping!
posted by latkes at 10:29 AM on July 18 [18 favorites]
posted by latkes at 10:29 AM on July 18 [18 favorites]
Has there been any attempt to assess the impact of these protests? Do they actually measurably change attitudes or increase support for climate action? Have they led to any actual regulations or laws?
Good question. Not that I know of.
If you're putting yourself on the line for the climate...
Bill McKibben's view is that peaceful, global organizing for change is what's driven the actual policy changes (such as they are). I know he's a fan of protests which include getting arrested, because he's done them for at least two decades that I know of.
posted by doctornemo at 10:33 AM on July 18 [4 favorites]
Good question. Not that I know of.
If you're putting yourself on the line for the climate...
Bill McKibben's view is that peaceful, global organizing for change is what's driven the actual policy changes (such as they are). I know he's a fan of protests which include getting arrested, because he's done them for at least two decades that I know of.
posted by doctornemo at 10:33 AM on July 18 [4 favorites]
If you're putting yourself on the line for the climate, I'm here for your critiques. If not, I'm not so interested in armchair pronouncements like these.
so the vast majority are just collateral? Sucks if they caught in some crossfire, maybe trying to get their six year old to the emergency ward on a day the roads aren't functioning ...
posted by philip-random at 10:41 AM on July 18 [1 favorite]
so the vast majority are just collateral? Sucks if they caught in some crossfire, maybe trying to get their six year old to the emergency ward on a day the roads aren't functioning ...
posted by philip-random at 10:41 AM on July 18 [1 favorite]
it's that I think complaining about activists' choices from the comfort of our laptops undermines the people actually doing something while contributing nothing to the effort ourselves.
This is the “at least they’re doing something!” school I mentioned above.
It’s so weird to me that asking whether these things actually are effective at achieving their stated goals gets such pushback. Shouldn’t we be evaluating that? And if it did turn out that these actions were actually reducing support for climate action, shouldn’t they be undermined?
Note I am not saying I have the answers, I said above I have no idea. But someone should actually be seeing what the real impact of these actions are. These actions are a means to an end not an end into themselves. I feel like some people get confused about this because of the passions involved.
posted by star gentle uterus at 10:42 AM on July 18 [4 favorites]
This is the “at least they’re doing something!” school I mentioned above.
It’s so weird to me that asking whether these things actually are effective at achieving their stated goals gets such pushback. Shouldn’t we be evaluating that? And if it did turn out that these actions were actually reducing support for climate action, shouldn’t they be undermined?
Note I am not saying I have the answers, I said above I have no idea. But someone should actually be seeing what the real impact of these actions are. These actions are a means to an end not an end into themselves. I feel like some people get confused about this because of the passions involved.
posted by star gentle uterus at 10:42 AM on July 18 [4 favorites]
5 YEARS?!
My brain hurts a lot
5 YEARS?!
Thats all we’ve got
posted by thecaddy at 10:47 AM on July 18 [2 favorites]
My brain hurts a lot
5 YEARS?!
Thats all we’ve got
posted by thecaddy at 10:47 AM on July 18 [2 favorites]
On preview: maybe trying to get their six year old to the emergency ward on a day the roads aren't functioning ...
You know what would be a really effective measure against climate change? Improving mass transit and increasing density so people don’t need to drive five miles multiple times a day to run errands!
(“How do I drive my kid to the hospital if I don’t have a car?” That’s what an ambulance is for. “What if the ambulance gets stuck in traffic?” There’d be less traffic overall and also the ambulance has sirens.)
posted by thecaddy at 10:55 AM on July 18 [14 favorites]
You know what would be a really effective measure against climate change? Improving mass transit and increasing density so people don’t need to drive five miles multiple times a day to run errands!
(“How do I drive my kid to the hospital if I don’t have a car?” That’s what an ambulance is for. “What if the ambulance gets stuck in traffic?” There’d be less traffic overall and also the ambulance has sirens.)
posted by thecaddy at 10:55 AM on July 18 [14 favorites]
It’s so weird to me that asking whether these things actually are effective at achieving their stated goals gets such pushback. Sorry for the back and forth but to clarify I absolutely agree with asking the question: "does this tactic work?" We need a lot more of that! There is a little of that - Chenowith is one person doing this. Qualitative study of historical examples are also helpful. I loved this book that illustrated how many different strategies local activists tried in Mississippi. [edit to add, there are also more theoretical engagements with what works strategically, from people actually organizing, that is grounded in realities, which I appreciate]
What I have issues with is people complaining about activists or offering evidence-free advice without choosing to actually engage. To me, engagement would include researching what tactics are more effective than others!
posted by latkes at 11:02 AM on July 18 [7 favorites]
What I have issues with is people complaining about activists or offering evidence-free advice without choosing to actually engage. To me, engagement would include researching what tactics are more effective than others!
posted by latkes at 11:02 AM on July 18 [7 favorites]
It’s so weird to me that asking whether these things actually are effective at achieving their stated goals gets such pushback. Shouldn’t we be evaluating that? And if it did turn out that these actions were actually reducing support for climate action, shouldn’t they be undermined?I think this is especially important in the face of determined opposition: there are literally billions of dollars supporting opposition campaigns and it’s essential to ask whether they’re using the same events more effectively to build support. There was a similar issue with the “Defund the Police” slogan, where it should be a moment for reconsideration any time the other side runs your events unmodified in their campaign ads. I’d want to see hard data but it definitely gives me pause to see how many people on the right side of the issue feel the need to distance themselves from JSO.
posted by adamsc at 11:06 AM on July 18 [4 favorites]
The zoom call angle seems clickbaity to me.
Yes, and it got you to click on it and comment. So while we're talking about it, let's discuss why this tactic gets a ludicrously harsh sentence - for even discussing causing a traffic jam on a Zoom call - while widespread actual property damage from, say, a sports riot does not.
(I am sorry to any Zoom users who read the headline and did not immediately think there must be more to the story. I did not mean to cause you panic.)
posted by AlSweigart at 11:07 AM on July 18 [6 favorites]
Yes, and it got you to click on it and comment. So while we're talking about it, let's discuss why this tactic gets a ludicrously harsh sentence - for even discussing causing a traffic jam on a Zoom call - while widespread actual property damage from, say, a sports riot does not.
(I am sorry to any Zoom users who read the headline and did not immediately think there must be more to the story. I did not mean to cause you panic.)
posted by AlSweigart at 11:07 AM on July 18 [6 favorites]
Hallam is an admitted cofounder of JSO.
The protest 'cost the Metropolitan Police more than £1.1million to deal with, prosecutor Jocelyn Ledward KC said.'
"This impacted around 700,000 vehicles and meant that the M25 grinded to a halt for more than 120 hours, Southwark Crown Court heard.'
Didn't help that a police oficer was injured
Essex Police said the ‘rolling roadblock’ was necessary ‘due to a person in the road’ but it ‘led to one of our officers being struck and injured’.
A picture from the scene showed debris on the road and a pile-up involving three large vehicles.
posted by yyz at 11:27 AM on July 18 [1 favorite]
The protest 'cost the Metropolitan Police more than £1.1million to deal with, prosecutor Jocelyn Ledward KC said.'
"This impacted around 700,000 vehicles and meant that the M25 grinded to a halt for more than 120 hours, Southwark Crown Court heard.'
Didn't help that a police oficer was injured
Essex Police said the ‘rolling roadblock’ was necessary ‘due to a person in the road’ but it ‘led to one of our officers being struck and injured’.
A picture from the scene showed debris on the road and a pile-up involving three large vehicles.
posted by yyz at 11:27 AM on July 18 [1 favorite]
Yes, and it got you to click on it and comment.
Ick. That attitude of "we're virtuous so we can do what we like" is why the country largely hates Just Stop Oil.
posted by Klipspringer at 11:31 AM on July 18 [8 favorites]
Ick. That attitude of "we're virtuous so we can do what we like" is why the country largely hates Just Stop Oil.
posted by Klipspringer at 11:31 AM on July 18 [8 favorites]
While I think most “direct action” protest is painfully misguided idiocy that makes people hate your cause, and little else, those sentences are criminal in their overreach.
posted by teece303 at 11:40 AM on July 18 [3 favorites]
posted by teece303 at 11:40 AM on July 18 [3 favorites]
I think whether attacks against the social fabric build mass support is clearly irrelevant. What, are we going to convince the people that climate change is actually important and then they'll go and vote for the Green Party? The vulnerable point is not the ballot box, but the flow of profit. When killing the world is unprofitable, the people doing it will stop.
posted by jy4m at 12:00 PM on July 18 [4 favorites]
posted by jy4m at 12:00 PM on July 18 [4 favorites]
Regardless of whether this was an effective protest, and whether the protesters organised themselves, this seems to me to be a sentence completely out of proportion to any offence.
posted by Stark at 12:02 PM on July 18 [4 favorites]
posted by Stark at 12:02 PM on July 18 [4 favorites]
On the one hand, that seems a bit much.
On the other hand, it's probably nothing compared to what the people who were caught in the traffic jam were wishing for.
Also, I suspect they were convicted for the traffic jam, not the Zoom call. Though that probably didn't help.
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 12:05 PM on July 18
On the other hand, it's probably nothing compared to what the people who were caught in the traffic jam were wishing for.
Also, I suspect they were convicted for the traffic jam, not the Zoom call. Though that probably didn't help.
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 12:05 PM on July 18
They were convicted of conspiracy to cause a public nuisance. It is an ungreat piece of legislation enacted in 2022, very likely in response to the protests of 2020.
posted by grumpybear69 at 12:10 PM on July 18 [8 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 12:10 PM on July 18 [8 favorites]
Also, I suspect they were convicted for the traffic jam, not the Zoom call. Though that probably didn't help.
Ah, this needs clarification: There was no traffic jam. They were planning, on Zoom, to cause a traffic jam.
So... it really was the Zoom call and planning that was responsible for the five year sentence, rather than a traffic jam (which did not exist.)
posted by AlSweigart at 12:11 PM on July 18 [1 favorite]
Ah, this needs clarification: There was no traffic jam. They were planning, on Zoom, to cause a traffic jam.
So... it really was the Zoom call and planning that was responsible for the five year sentence, rather than a traffic jam (which did not exist.)
posted by AlSweigart at 12:11 PM on July 18 [1 favorite]
There was no traffic jam.
Do you have a source for this belief?
The BBC reports:
posted by Klipspringer at 12:20 PM on July 18 [5 favorites]
Do you have a source for this belief?
The BBC reports:
Five environmental activists who organised protests that brought part of the M25 to a standstill over four days have been jailed.The article is accompanied by a picture, taken by Just Stop Oil, of the traffic jam they organised.
..
The action resulted in chaos on the M25 over four successive days, resulting in nearly 51,000 hours of driver delays, the court heard. The protests closed parts of the motorway in Kent, Surrey, Essex and Hertfordshire.
People missed flights, medical appointments and exams. Two lorries collided, and a police motorcyclist came off his bike during one of the protests on 9 November 2022 while trying to bring traffic to a halt in a “rolling road block”.
posted by Klipspringer at 12:20 PM on July 18 [5 favorites]
Pardon me, I'm juggling a few media stories right now. The traffic jam took place over four days in November 2022.
posted by AlSweigart at 12:21 PM on July 18
posted by AlSweigart at 12:21 PM on July 18
So four of them will be free in time for the record summer of 2028, and Hallam for the record summer of 29, yes?
posted by Ashenmote at 12:28 PM on July 18
posted by Ashenmote at 12:28 PM on July 18
Don't worry about it! Your intentions are good so there's no need to worry about the facts.
Sarcasm like that is extremely unpleasant
posted by ambrosen at 12:29 PM on July 18 [5 favorites]
Sarcasm like that is extremely unpleasant
posted by ambrosen at 12:29 PM on July 18 [5 favorites]
Someone who knows the current prison system better than me will be able to confirm whether they’ll be released on licence midway through the sentence, or if they’ll be ineligible for that because they won’t refuse to reengage with Just Stop Oil.
posted by ambrosen at 12:33 PM on July 18
posted by ambrosen at 12:33 PM on July 18
It’s so weird to me that asking whether these things actually are effective at achieving their stated goals gets such pushback.
I think it gets pushback because it is very often asked in bad faith in a kind of sealioning way in online discourse. (I do see that you're not doing that....but in these times, the bad actors are the overwhelming majority.)
Also, trust and believe that the "is this effective?" conversation is held at length, and often ad nauseum within activist circles. Is there solid peer-reviewed data on an agreed-upon measure of effectiveness across forms of activism and public actions? No, but there is an awful lot of observational and experiential data among working organizers. I think discounting them as sources is a mistake.
posted by pantarei70 at 12:46 PM on July 18 [6 favorites]
I think it gets pushback because it is very often asked in bad faith in a kind of sealioning way in online discourse. (I do see that you're not doing that....but in these times, the bad actors are the overwhelming majority.)
Also, trust and believe that the "is this effective?" conversation is held at length, and often ad nauseum within activist circles. Is there solid peer-reviewed data on an agreed-upon measure of effectiveness across forms of activism and public actions? No, but there is an awful lot of observational and experiential data among working organizers. I think discounting them as sources is a mistake.
posted by pantarei70 at 12:46 PM on July 18 [6 favorites]
Mod note: Two comments deleted. As always, be considerate and respectful, but also, there's no need to be sarcastic with others (or to engage with said comments).
posted by loup (staff) at 1:17 PM on July 18
posted by loup (staff) at 1:17 PM on July 18
this is deliberate, on the part of one or more provocateurs
Hallam is an admitted cofounder of JSO
These statements are contradictory, therefore the first one (mine) is likely wrong... unless the founders are getting bogus ideas from a benefactor... but now my suspicion is getting increasingly implausible.
Nonetheless, if I was an oil billionaire keenly supportive of the global rise of capitalist neo-fascism, I would be delighted by the negative public reaction these protests are getting and I would absolutely want to support them. A pair of corrupt and murderous autocrats (one whom I can no longer name under the threat of comment deletion) have used - to great effect - this strategy of secretly boosting the most volatile of their enemies to sabotage the most effective among them. It's not unreasonable to suspect it has been or will be used to tear down other progressive efforts, which is why we have to evaluate all actions in the context of gaining public support, not losing it.
posted by CynicalKnight at 1:26 PM on July 18 [2 favorites]
Hallam is an admitted cofounder of JSO
These statements are contradictory, therefore the first one (mine) is likely wrong... unless the founders are getting bogus ideas from a benefactor... but now my suspicion is getting increasingly implausible.
Nonetheless, if I was an oil billionaire keenly supportive of the global rise of capitalist neo-fascism, I would be delighted by the negative public reaction these protests are getting and I would absolutely want to support them. A pair of corrupt and murderous autocrats (one whom I can no longer name under the threat of comment deletion) have used - to great effect - this strategy of secretly boosting the most volatile of their enemies to sabotage the most effective among them. It's not unreasonable to suspect it has been or will be used to tear down other progressive efforts, which is why we have to evaluate all actions in the context of gaining public support, not losing it.
posted by CynicalKnight at 1:26 PM on July 18 [2 favorites]
Put the oil in jail instead.
posted by GoblinHoney at 1:49 PM on July 18 [3 favorites]
posted by GoblinHoney at 1:49 PM on July 18 [3 favorites]
Here's the thing, right. If you want to create major traffic chaos all you need to do is drive the speed limit alongside each other in all of the lanes. Takes like 4-8 people. On a beltway like M25 you could dispatch multiple small groups to create multiple logjams.
Perfectly legal. Plausibly deniable.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 3:07 PM on July 18 [5 favorites]
Perfectly legal. Plausibly deniable.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 3:07 PM on July 18 [5 favorites]
Who came up with that long-arc-of-history-justice bullshit?
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 3:16 PM on July 18
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 3:16 PM on July 18
> The zoom call angle seems clickbaity to me.
Yes, and it got you to click on it and comment
I don’t think I’ve read a comment more disgusting all day.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 4:13 PM on July 18
Yes, and it got you to click on it and comment
I don’t think I’ve read a comment more disgusting all day.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 4:13 PM on July 18
"there is an awful lot of observational and experiential data"
I think the word you're looking for is "anecdotes". Not exactly reliable.
posted by scivola at 4:47 PM on July 18
I think the word you're looking for is "anecdotes". Not exactly reliable.
posted by scivola at 4:47 PM on July 18
Evergreen cartoon from 2012 in the new yorker, by tom toro.
posted by lalochezia at 4:51 PM on July 18 [1 favorite]
posted by lalochezia at 4:51 PM on July 18 [1 favorite]
These naive climate optimists think that there is still time to save people and species and civilization AND that this should be done AND that this is the way to do it.
But we wise metafilter folks know this better other way to do it, AND we know what they are doing is actually counter productive AND we have more bona-fides AND everything is a false-flag psy-op.
I'm just glad that when the crops fail and the lights go out and the cooling ponds dry out that I won't have to hear about how this is all the fault of the folks who tried a less than perfect answer.
Of course, any real answer to the climate problem is unspeakable.
posted by No Climate - No Food, No Food - No Future. at 8:52 PM on July 18 [2 favorites]
But we wise metafilter folks know this better other way to do it, AND we know what they are doing is actually counter productive AND we have more bona-fides AND everything is a false-flag psy-op.
I'm just glad that when the crops fail and the lights go out and the cooling ponds dry out that I won't have to hear about how this is all the fault of the folks who tried a less than perfect answer.
Of course, any real answer to the climate problem is unspeakable.
posted by No Climate - No Food, No Food - No Future. at 8:52 PM on July 18 [2 favorites]
Speaking only for myself, the Just Stop Oil protests have been extremely effective in helping me understand how desperate the situation is.
Polite protests don't work.
The purpose of protests like these is not to persuade reluctant undecided people to agree with you.
Amongst other things, it's to send out a strong signal to other people who agree with you, that they are not alone, that there is something we can do to change things.
And that's exactly why this protest is getting such harsh punishment, to chill people like us into backing down.
I'm deeply disappointed in the car centric and conservative reactions here. This prison sentence is an injustice.
posted by Zumbador at 9:21 PM on July 18 [6 favorites]
Polite protests don't work.
The purpose of protests like these is not to persuade reluctant undecided people to agree with you.
Amongst other things, it's to send out a strong signal to other people who agree with you, that they are not alone, that there is something we can do to change things.
And that's exactly why this protest is getting such harsh punishment, to chill people like us into backing down.
I'm deeply disappointed in the car centric and conservative reactions here. This prison sentence is an injustice.
posted by Zumbador at 9:21 PM on July 18 [6 favorites]
IMO Just Stop Oil's tactics do their cause more harm than good but these sentences are wildly disproportionate, like some of those post the 2011 UK riots. It's a pity the state doesn't go after some of the posh people who cleaned up illegally with cushy conracts during COVID with such fervour.
posted by GallonOfAlan at 11:49 PM on July 18 [1 favorite]
posted by GallonOfAlan at 11:49 PM on July 18 [1 favorite]
« Older She can have a drawbridge anyway. | Bananas Don’t Taste Like They Used To. Here’s Why. Newer »
If you want to know what forms of protest are effective at creating change...
posted by AlSweigart at 9:05 AM on July 18 [44 favorites]