"Phoenix is a vision of America's future"
July 18, 2024 9:43 AM Subscribe
George Packer on "the most American city" as a harbinger of what's coming for us collectively.
[Atlantic via Wayback Machine]:
Phoenix makes you keenly aware of human artifice—its ingenuity and its fragility. The American lust for new things and new ideas, good and bad ones, is most palpable here in the West, but the dynamo that generates all the microchip factories and battery plants and downtown high-rises and master-planned suburbs runs so high that it suggests its own oblivion. New Yorkers and Chicagoans don’t wonder how long their cities will go on existing, but in Phoenix in August, when the heat has broken 110 degrees for a month straight, the desert golf courses and urban freeways give this civilization an air of impermanence, like a mirage composed of sheer hubris, and a surprising number of inhabitants begin to brood on its disappearance.
George Packer previously.
Packer talks to Phoenix's KJZZ and 'The Bulwark' podcast talking about reporting this piece.
[Atlantic via Wayback Machine]:
Phoenix makes you keenly aware of human artifice—its ingenuity and its fragility. The American lust for new things and new ideas, good and bad ones, is most palpable here in the West, but the dynamo that generates all the microchip factories and battery plants and downtown high-rises and master-planned suburbs runs so high that it suggests its own oblivion. New Yorkers and Chicagoans don’t wonder how long their cities will go on existing, but in Phoenix in August, when the heat has broken 110 degrees for a month straight, the desert golf courses and urban freeways give this civilization an air of impermanence, like a mirage composed of sheer hubris, and a surprising number of inhabitants begin to brood on its disappearance.
George Packer previously.
Packer talks to Phoenix's KJZZ and 'The Bulwark' podcast talking about reporting this piece.
My sister moved to the Palm Springs area. I visited her over a period of five straight days of over 110 degrees (43 C). I thought, God was trying to tell people not to live there.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 10:16 AM on July 18 [3 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 10:16 AM on July 18 [3 favorites]
I just don't know how you fix any of that with the people that live there, the people that run those governments, and the available systems that could help.
The part about 1% of the population dying (13,000) but 800,000 being hospitalized during a multi-day power outage? There's no way. We all saw how crushing hospitals worked out during early COVID, there's absolutely no way it would be just 13,000 if the projection is 800,000 needing emergency care. And there's no way to get all those people out of the city in that short a span of time.
It just feels like Phoenix, and places similar to Phoenix, will continue until they literally cannot continue and then it will be too late.
posted by Slackermagee at 10:27 AM on July 18 [14 favorites]
The part about 1% of the population dying (13,000) but 800,000 being hospitalized during a multi-day power outage? There's no way. We all saw how crushing hospitals worked out during early COVID, there's absolutely no way it would be just 13,000 if the projection is 800,000 needing emergency care. And there's no way to get all those people out of the city in that short a span of time.
It just feels like Phoenix, and places similar to Phoenix, will continue until they literally cannot continue and then it will be too late.
posted by Slackermagee at 10:27 AM on July 18 [14 favorites]
Haven't been to Phoenix in years (except in the connecting through Sky Harbor way of "being in a place") and I'm sure there's things to recommend it, but I can't see it. Always think of The Water Knife and Cadillac Desert when I do because if it was folly to build the second largest city in the US in a coastal chaparral, I don't know what you call building Vegas and Phoenix in actual desert.
posted by drewbage1847 at 10:45 AM on July 18 [8 favorites]
posted by drewbage1847 at 10:45 AM on July 18 [8 favorites]
My brother lives in the Phoenix-area, and I'm going to visit next week for his birthday and for a concert (Dweezil Zappa, whoo hoo!) but yeah, it's freakin hot as hell, fake as hell, and crazy Republican as hell. Why does it exist? Who the hell knows.
posted by Saxon Kane at 10:59 AM on July 18 [4 favorites]
posted by Saxon Kane at 10:59 AM on July 18 [4 favorites]
Why does it exist?
No idea, but while you're there, go visit the Musical Instrument Museum. It's amazing.
posted by heyitsgogi at 11:17 AM on July 18 [7 favorites]
No idea, but while you're there, go visit the Musical Instrument Museum. It's amazing.
posted by heyitsgogi at 11:17 AM on July 18 [7 favorites]
Why does Phoenix exist? Find a map like this from about 1985, 1990, 2000, then 2010:
The House of Representatives if it was apportioned by housing units built since 2020
And that CA number looks pretty good, but statistically, more people in CA now live east of I5 (inland side) than west (the coast side). And Seattle just passed LA in uniform density. That's just sad.
Also, Phoenix is like a lot of places in the US: A season sucks (for Phoenix, it's summer of course) but the other 8 months of the year, the weather is very nice. And you can drive 1 hour north into the mountains and get away from the heat, which is not true of most of the southeast.
Also IMO, the funniest thing about Phoenix and Las Vegas is the fact that they still have homes and (especially) front yards like the rainy east, but the yards are just gravel - like useless appendages - for nearly every home. Like when does the lightbulb moment occur and say "maybe we should do something else instead?"
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:20 AM on July 18 [8 favorites]
The House of Representatives if it was apportioned by housing units built since 2020
And that CA number looks pretty good, but statistically, more people in CA now live east of I5 (inland side) than west (the coast side). And Seattle just passed LA in uniform density. That's just sad.
Also, Phoenix is like a lot of places in the US: A season sucks (for Phoenix, it's summer of course) but the other 8 months of the year, the weather is very nice. And you can drive 1 hour north into the mountains and get away from the heat, which is not true of most of the southeast.
Also IMO, the funniest thing about Phoenix and Las Vegas is the fact that they still have homes and (especially) front yards like the rainy east, but the yards are just gravel - like useless appendages - for nearly every home. Like when does the lightbulb moment occur and say "maybe we should do something else instead?"
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:20 AM on July 18 [8 favorites]
it's freakin hot as hell, fake as hell, and crazy Republican as hell.
2 out of 3, maybe. 2 out of 3 for certain if you include Scottsdale.
Phoenix (and Tucson) are the reason Democrat Mark Kelly is sitting in the US Senate representing Arizona. And subsequently the reason Ketanji Brown Jackson is on SCOTUS instead of Mitch McConnell saying "there's an election coming up in 2 years, we should let the people decide then."
It's hot, not long-term-viable, full of strip malls and everything else people say it is. But I'd rather be there than a lot of other places.
posted by howbigisthistextfield at 11:23 AM on July 18 [9 favorites]
2 out of 3, maybe. 2 out of 3 for certain if you include Scottsdale.
Phoenix (and Tucson) are the reason Democrat Mark Kelly is sitting in the US Senate representing Arizona. And subsequently the reason Ketanji Brown Jackson is on SCOTUS instead of Mitch McConnell saying "there's an election coming up in 2 years, we should let the people decide then."
It's hot, not long-term-viable, full of strip malls and everything else people say it is. But I'd rather be there than a lot of other places.
posted by howbigisthistextfield at 11:23 AM on July 18 [9 favorites]
Absolutely agree it makes no sense as a modern city during the acceleration of climate change. By today's standard's it's foolhardy.
But also - it wasn't founded today? And there is no question that the desert can be inspirational and beautiful in a way that must be hard to abandon - I saw a Chihuly installation at Frank Lloyd Wright's Taliesin West and at least for that afternoon, I think I understood a little.
posted by BlueBlueElectricBlue at 11:29 AM on July 18 [8 favorites]
But also - it wasn't founded today? And there is no question that the desert can be inspirational and beautiful in a way that must be hard to abandon - I saw a Chihuly installation at Frank Lloyd Wright's Taliesin West and at least for that afternoon, I think I understood a little.
posted by BlueBlueElectricBlue at 11:29 AM on July 18 [8 favorites]
Hi, I live in Phoenix! AMA!
More seriously: this is my home. I love it here. We're more liberal than people give us credit for; our food scene is extremely good (seriously, some of the best pizza in the world is here... And that's not even getting into the Mexican cuisine); everything is casual and open-air and bright all year long. I prefer the heat to the cold (and I've previously lived in Minnesota, so my preference is an informed one), and I love the nine months in every year that I get to sit out on my patio under a brilliant blue sky. Our sunsets can take your breath away.
Remember, also, that the desert is a living place. In fact, the desert will provide you with what you need to survive, and readily, if you only spend a bit of time learning her ways. This is not, by virtue of its climate, a doomed place.
But, yeah, all that said, the article is right: you can't live here without recognizing the impermanence and impertinence of living here as we do. There is so much asphalt, and it amplifies the heat. You never hate roadways truly until it is 115 and you need to cross a road with five lanes. We rely on stolen water rights, and someday that water will dry up. We are evidence of the sins of manifest destiny and American hubris.
Like I said, this is my home. There is much to love here, and I don't like seeing people shit on it, even when the conversation is about the fundamental problems with this place.
posted by meese at 11:50 AM on July 18 [43 favorites]
More seriously: this is my home. I love it here. We're more liberal than people give us credit for; our food scene is extremely good (seriously, some of the best pizza in the world is here... And that's not even getting into the Mexican cuisine); everything is casual and open-air and bright all year long. I prefer the heat to the cold (and I've previously lived in Minnesota, so my preference is an informed one), and I love the nine months in every year that I get to sit out on my patio under a brilliant blue sky. Our sunsets can take your breath away.
Remember, also, that the desert is a living place. In fact, the desert will provide you with what you need to survive, and readily, if you only spend a bit of time learning her ways. This is not, by virtue of its climate, a doomed place.
But, yeah, all that said, the article is right: you can't live here without recognizing the impermanence and impertinence of living here as we do. There is so much asphalt, and it amplifies the heat. You never hate roadways truly until it is 115 and you need to cross a road with five lanes. We rely on stolen water rights, and someday that water will dry up. We are evidence of the sins of manifest destiny and American hubris.
Like I said, this is my home. There is much to love here, and I don't like seeing people shit on it, even when the conversation is about the fundamental problems with this place.
posted by meese at 11:50 AM on July 18 [43 favorites]
Phoenix (and Tucson) are the reason Democrat Mark Kelly is sitting in the US Senate representing Arizona.
Of course, Phoenix & Maricopa County was also where Joe Arpaio was Sheriff for 24 years, so, you know, a land of contrasts.
Tucson I loved. Lived there for 5 years, even despite the miserable summers it is a fun place to be. Phoenix has some of the benefits of a "big city" but is full of strip malls and concrete and fakeness.
posted by Saxon Kane at 12:19 PM on July 18 [2 favorites]
Of course, Phoenix & Maricopa County was also where Joe Arpaio was Sheriff for 24 years, so, you know, a land of contrasts.
Tucson I loved. Lived there for 5 years, even despite the miserable summers it is a fun place to be. Phoenix has some of the benefits of a "big city" but is full of strip malls and concrete and fakeness.
posted by Saxon Kane at 12:19 PM on July 18 [2 favorites]
I enjoyed Tucson the few days I visited. An old woman with giant novelty sunglasses asked me if I had any weed.
posted by credulous at 12:23 PM on July 18 [6 favorites]
posted by credulous at 12:23 PM on July 18 [6 favorites]
Well, did you? Did you share?
My college roommate had an uncle who lived there. We hit them up for a free night on our spring break road trips. And this was in the 80s! (My roommate I think lives in Globe, AZ, and has gone full on Nazi. Sigh...)
Hubris, deserts. climate change, water?
No thanks
posted by Windopaene at 12:37 PM on July 18
My college roommate had an uncle who lived there. We hit them up for a free night on our spring break road trips. And this was in the 80s! (My roommate I think lives in Globe, AZ, and has gone full on Nazi. Sigh...)
Hubris, deserts. climate change, water?
No thanks
posted by Windopaene at 12:37 PM on July 18
An old woman with giant novelty sunglasses asked me if I had any weed.
Goddammit, Mom.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 1:13 PM on July 18 [15 favorites]
Goddammit, Mom.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 1:13 PM on July 18 [15 favorites]
I was in Phoenix last year to go to a couple MLB spring training games and it surprised me how much I liked it. The Desert Botanical Garden is stunning, spring training is like the platonic ideal of baseball, and we found some really great cocktail bars and restaurants in Phoenix proper.
It would never be the right fit for me to live there - that sort of sprawly, resource-intensive, drive-everywhere kind of development kills my soul, and I prefer cold weather to hot - but I was surprised to end up liking that trip as much as I did.
posted by misskaz at 2:54 PM on July 18 [1 favorite]
It would never be the right fit for me to live there - that sort of sprawly, resource-intensive, drive-everywhere kind of development kills my soul, and I prefer cold weather to hot - but I was surprised to end up liking that trip as much as I did.
posted by misskaz at 2:54 PM on July 18 [1 favorite]
"Phoenix is a vision of America's future"
Super hot and uncertain water supplies?
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 3:04 PM on July 18 [1 favorite]
Super hot and uncertain water supplies?
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 3:04 PM on July 18 [1 favorite]
It just feels like Phoenix, and places similar to Phoenix, will continue until they literally cannot continue and then it will be too late.
Like so much else: slowly at first and then all at once.
posted by notyou at 3:04 PM on July 18 [1 favorite]
Like so much else: slowly at first and then all at once.
posted by notyou at 3:04 PM on July 18 [1 favorite]
A Phoenix sized population inside of that valley is not inherently insane. There are cities that size in the Arab World.
But if you're going to move to the Salt River Valley, you might notice that the weather reports include terms from Arabic, like haboub, (dust storm) and hamseen (a hot wind that makes the heat worse rather than better).
In which case you might want to notice that Arab cities are actually built for the climate. Those casbahs look the way they do for a reason. If people really want to live there, they should understand that shaded alleys save lives and sun blasted parking lots take lives.
posted by ocschwar at 6:48 PM on July 18 [2 favorites]
But if you're going to move to the Salt River Valley, you might notice that the weather reports include terms from Arabic, like haboub, (dust storm) and hamseen (a hot wind that makes the heat worse rather than better).
In which case you might want to notice that Arab cities are actually built for the climate. Those casbahs look the way they do for a reason. If people really want to live there, they should understand that shaded alleys save lives and sun blasted parking lots take lives.
posted by ocschwar at 6:48 PM on July 18 [2 favorites]
why does anyplace exist? they are either productive or subsidized, and like most of the us land area, the arid west is subsidized by govt money, infrastructure and policy, built on other peoples land and watered with other peoples water. Sound harsh? its that way in most places, its just more obvious in some. Conneticut, for example is just as wasteful and physically unproductive.
posted by No Climate - No Food, No Food - No Future. at 8:40 PM on July 18
posted by No Climate - No Food, No Food - No Future. at 8:40 PM on July 18
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