Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau expected to step down today.

January 6, 2025 6:39 AM

The announcement scheduled to happen at 10:45 am, EST. Excellent primer for non-Canadians here.

With a dipshit getting ready to take office for a SECOND time in our extremely polarized neighbour to the south, get ready for even more chaos.

Reminder: while US politics does impact us, this thread is about Canadian politics.

posted by Kitteh (135 comments total)

Archive.ph option for the second link.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:40 AM on January 6

It will be interesting to see if certain people remain fixated on blaming him for everything, even though he has no power anymore, a la Hillary Clinton. 🤔
posted by funkaspuck at 6:43 AM on January 6 [8 favorites]

Stepping down before this Wednesday caucus meeting so he can get out before the caucus turfs him.

The thing about Canadian politics is that we don't for in governments, we vote them out. The Liberals have been in power for a decade and people are ready for a change.

Unfortunately that means having our own neo-conservative take over. Which is going to be a mess of defunding and stripping what's left of our social safety net to the bones.
posted by thecjm at 6:44 AM on January 6 [10 favorites]

certain people remain fixated on blaming him

Oh, absolutely. It's their wrestlemania.
posted by CynicalKnight at 6:45 AM on January 6 [5 favorites]

Oh the "F Trudeau" truck sticker are going to stay. PP is going to try and make everything that goes wrong in his first term Trudeau's fault.
posted by thecjm at 6:46 AM on January 6 [3 favorites]

Yeah, Milhouse Without the Glasses just did an interview with Jordan Peterson recently and christ, I could have done without all the coverage that didn't say "Look at these two assholes."
posted by Kitteh at 6:50 AM on January 6 [13 favorites]

After Trump won I was ready to take solace in relative the sanity of our government and politics. How embarrassingly naive of me.

This was all so avoidable. I'm numb. What a gong show.
posted by kitcat at 6:51 AM on January 6 [13 favorites]

Please tell me that this won't end up with Doug Ford in the big chair.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:55 AM on January 6 [5 favorites]

Well no, that would be Milhouse Without the Glasses in the big chair. Doug Ford is too busy fucking over us Ontarians.
posted by Kitteh at 6:56 AM on January 6 [7 favorites]

It will be interesting to see if certain people remain fixated on blaming him for everything, even though he has no power anymore, a la Hillary Clinton. 🤔
posted by funkaspuck

"If"? People still blame his dad for everything!
posted by The Notorious SRD at 7:01 AM on January 6 [13 favorites]

Trudeau is getting the Biden treatment, even though he isn't a million years old, and even though he isn't personally bankrolling a genocide. And even though Canada definitely does not have a Kamala Harris waiting in the wings to shake things up. (not like that was any help in the US, anyway)

So, basically, this sucks. I don't see how JT getting pushed out benefits anyone other than the Conservatives.

I just wish the Libs and NDP could get their heads out of their collective asses, and start talking coalition strategy. It doesn't matter who the Liberal leader is if the vote is just gonna get split anyway.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 7:01 AM on January 6 [14 favorites]

This headline isn't quite accurate: he isn't likely to step down today. The article says he is announcing his plans to step down once a replacement is picked.
posted by The Notorious SRD at 7:03 AM on January 6 [2 favorites]

JT. Well, he wasn't my guy, wasn't ever going to be my guy, and to me he came across as a bit dim and fake, but overall he was an OK manager type PM. I honestly think that no-one could have done a better job during Covid. But yeah -- bailing on electoral reform, buying a pipeline, 100% tariff on affordable Chinese EVs -- he's not my guy, and not the climate guy he claimed to be, and not a lot of other things he claimed to be. But he wasn't terrible, and I certainly don't understand the hatred.

But definitely past his Best By date. He should have done this a year or two ago.
posted by Capt. Renault at 7:03 AM on January 6 [13 favorites]

The timing is just so shit. Shepherd told me when I moved up here that Canada very roughly follows the trajectory of the government in the US in terms of who is in power. (Again, roughly.)

The best we can hope for is a minority Con government.
posted by Kitteh at 7:04 AM on January 6 [4 favorites]

I mean, is anyone actually surprised? Everyone I know has been expecting this since at least before the summer.
I thought it would happen way, way sooner. He's been toxic for them for a long time so it's the only chance they have.
posted by chococat at 7:13 AM on January 6 [1 favorite]

In one of the news stories that came out overnight, anonymous Liberals were quoted as saying JT had taken the party too far to the left. This is a party that had its biggest election success of this century on the back of a progressive platform in 2015, only to spend the next decade walking back on those promises to revert to their neo-liberal, centrist tendencies and see their share of the vote decrease in every election since. And they think being too LEFT is the problem? This party is broken.

We see this in Canada. We see this in the US. We see this in the UK. Centre-left parties leaning more and more to the right to maybe syphon a few votes from their increasingly extreme right-wing rivals who actively hate them, instead of presenting themselves as a legitimate alternative to the conservative POV. The Liberals had great success campaigning on equal rights and voting reform. Too bad they can't realize that or govern that way.
posted by thecjm at 7:25 AM on January 6 [44 favorites]

I'm prepared for a majority Progressive Conservative government - I think this will be a turfing in line with the 1993 election where the then-Conservatives ended up with 2 seats, after having formed the government the prior year.

I guess the good (?) news is that ultimately drove them further right with the merger with the Reform party and maybe this will drive the Liberals somewhere interesting?

As far as Trudeau, like Biden he's screwed his party by staying too long. They can't campaign on a left platform at this point so they'll probably go for Mark Carney (if he's even interested.)

The Liberals have consistently screwed up their communications (as well as follow-through) on their policies. Now they're going to blame the policies as being "too left" when the problem was at least in large part roll out.* They are so shit at comms and roll out that it's unbelievable. Hire fucking Navigator for gods sake. But that is honestly the Trudeau and Old Boys Club thing - as long as the OBC thinks it's good policy you don't have to bother figuring out how to communicate that to the plebs.

I really wish the NPD had an effective leader and had not upset so much of the grassroots hard-core organizers (this last is opinion based based on the people I know here.)
posted by warriorqueen at 7:30 AM on January 6 [7 favorites]

The only way the Cons got back into power in the 2000s was by merging with Reform/Alliance. The only way to keep the Cons out of power now is for the NDP and Libs to work together. Unfortunately the only thing the NDP hates more than the Cons is the Libs and the Libs look at the NDP like something stuck to their shoe. It’d take a decade in the wilderness like the Cons had in the 90s to actually make it happen, and we don’t have the luxury of a decade to spend wildernessing.
posted by saturday_morning at 7:32 AM on January 6 [9 favorites]

Unfortunately that means having our own neo-conservative take over. Which is going to be a mess of defunding and stripping what's left of our social safety net to the bones.

A lot of that safety net is administered and implemented by the provinces, PER THE CONSTITUTION. PP is a disingenuous shitstain weasel but the fight for a lot of this is provincial. He's going a ton of other terrible things but there are limits to what he can do.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 7:45 AM on January 6 [2 favorites]

Yeah agreed saturday_morning. Either that or a new party (like the Reform was.)
posted by warriorqueen at 7:45 AM on January 6

Yeah, I mean not to silver line this extremely dark cloud but I am looking forward to the provincial conservative governments having to own their policies rather than blame Trudeau. Looking at Alberta and Ontario in particular here.

My main concern is PP taking down the Bank of Canada or going for crypto. I hope he's backed off that. That would be an issue for decades.
posted by warriorqueen at 7:48 AM on January 6 [6 favorites]

I used to be pro Liberal-NDP merger, but I just don't see it happening now. The Liberal insiders think of themselves at centrist and the NDP as a extremist leftist party.

The only way out I see is more of a British style Liberal Party total collapse and replacement by Labour but we've seen where that leads. Labour/NDP get taken over by the neo-liberal centrists over time.

I really don't think a PC-Reform style merger is ever going to be in the cards for the Liberals and NDP.
posted by thecjm at 7:51 AM on January 6 [1 favorite]

Somehow he'll step down in a way that results with him being PM until October. :P

Possibly by delaying the press conference until then.
posted by mazola at 7:53 AM on January 6 [2 favorites]

it's the only chance they have

turfing Trudeau at this point will not save the Liberals from a defeat akin to the Conservatives' numbers in 1993 as mentioned by warriorqueen. The Conservatives did not recover from that loss.

I would be surprised to the point of astonishment if Mark Carney gets involved. I can't speak to his pros and cons but I'd expect a manager approach and maybe he'd be good at that, but the foreseeable future of politics is not a manager's game.

we are in trouble here, to the south, and pretty much all over the place. A lot of people are going to get progressively more angry and fearful with the strains we're putting on the planet and they will grasp at anything for the illusion that somehow, someone has a solution.
posted by ginger.beef at 7:57 AM on January 6 [5 favorites]

Lets be honest, JT was not a good leader/manager. He's more shallow and performative than efficient. He's got better core values than PP so for that reason alone he'll always be preferable to that wanker, but I won't be sad to see him gone.

This is extra bad timing considering what's happening down south, but I don't think it matters who's the PM with regards to the demented cheetos situation. He's gonna do what's he's gonna do regardless.

Next years are going to suck.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 8:04 AM on January 6 [3 favorites]

"I would be surprised to the point of astonishment if Mark Carney gets involved."

Same. I can't see him stepping in just as the Grits enter eight years of rebuilding mode. He's not that guy.
posted by Capt. Renault at 8:07 AM on January 6 [2 favorites]

I don't believe any word of this until I hear it the second time via the CBC translator.
posted by mazola at 8:08 AM on January 6 [1 favorite]

Parliament is prorogued till march 24, JT is resigning once a successor has been chosen.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 8:09 AM on January 6

Yeah not to get too bleak, but I really think that we're pretty much fucked here in Canada.

We had a decade or so of a somewhat progressive consensus, but it got squandered on neoliberal pandering to industry and capital. We got just enough lip service paid to social causes to enrage the far-right social reactionaries, but not enough safeguards in place to actually protect anyone from bigotry. The Tar Sands are still an environmental catastrophe, the population is radicalized *against* the tiny, market-based carbon plan we currently have in place. COVID broke our brains, and our whole concept of caring for one another. Attitudes regarding immigration have turned. Canadians are becoming cruel, conspiratorial, anti-intellectual, and just plain *stupid*, thanks to relentless lies and propaganda. We are sleepwalking right into overlapping environmental and social disasters.

So yeah. It's bleak. I'm glad I don't have kids.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 8:10 AM on January 6 [15 favorites]

The good news is Poilievre won’t be able to fix any of it.
posted by saturday_morning at 8:11 AM on January 6 [2 favorites]

He regrets not changing the electoral system :P
posted by mazola at 8:12 AM on January 6 [7 favorites]

He regrets not changing the electoral system :P

My brother in christ, you literally said you would in your campaign. Come the fuck on.
posted by Kitteh at 8:19 AM on January 6 [12 favorites]

Yeah, we all regret that too.
posted by rodlymight at 8:20 AM on January 6 [10 favorites]

He regrets not changing the electoral system

We all do. But I never believed the fucking Liberal Party of Canada would do that, that is not in their DNA.

To be fair, only a pure proportional system would have avoided the currently looming Conservative landslide, and I don't think we were ever getting that, but anything that could constrain the cons would be better.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 8:20 AM on January 6 [4 favorites]

So yeah. It's bleak. I'm glad I don't have kids.

Having kids makes you realize how many actually great young Canadians there are, and how good they are at caring for each other. It's a long game but I think the pendulum will swing back. The question is what will they be working with at that point.

I am going to say too that although I'm not super up on Manitoba politics, every time I've heard Wab Kinew speak I've felt good about some of our politicians.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:23 AM on January 6 [15 favorites]

What an opportunity for Jagmeet Singh!*

*to squander
posted by 1adam12 at 8:31 AM on January 6 [8 favorites]

I'm not a fan of Dougie, but at this point he would be preferable to Milhouse without Glasses.
posted by fimbulvetr at 8:32 AM on January 6 [3 favorites]

Doug prefers to be a big fish in smaller pond. He won't be doing Federal politics anytime soon.
posted by Ashwagandha at 8:36 AM on January 6 [3 favorites]

Yep, he seems to like acting as though he is still a city councillor instead of Premier of Ontario.
posted by fimbulvetr at 8:41 AM on January 6 [4 favorites]

Can you imagine him going out to Vancouver to shovel driveways on the 2 days they get snow each winter and lose their minds? Or Montreal? Or Regina?
posted by Ashwagandha at 8:44 AM on January 6 [1 favorite]

Yep, he seems to like acting as though he is still a city councillor instead of Premier of Ontario.

Derail: Sure, Ford is the Premier of Ontario but he pretty much focuses all his attention on Toronto in revenge for them not electing him mayor like they did his brother.
posted by Kitteh at 8:49 AM on January 6 [3 favorites]

The good news is Poilievre won’t be able to fix any of it.

It's a mistake to think PP needs to fix anything. Again as someone already pointed out, he can basically coast on blaming Trudeau for at least a term, and I'd be surprised if the party doesn't use that term to establish some long range plans that will permanently alter Canada, not the least of which being successive so-called Conservative governments

not that people need the reminder, but these people aren't your Joe Clark Conservatives. Scratch the surface and what you get is (Preston Manning) Reform
posted by ginger.beef at 8:56 AM on January 6 [5 favorites]

"It's a mistake to think PP needs to fix anything."

And he can use Paul Martin's playbook of cutting transfer payments.
posted by Capt. Renault at 8:59 AM on January 6 [1 favorite]

The Liberal party is intellectually bankrupt. They have no vision and no direction. Trudeau was a reprieve: his charisma* and the mythology of his legacy effectively gave the Liberals a way to put off facing that existential crisis. And now they are plunged back into it without having given any thought as to how to work through it. And until they do that, they won't be capable of anything more ambitious than managing.

(* - As hard as that is to believe now, I swear it was true!)
posted by spindle at 9:09 AM on January 6 [5 favorites]

just to push back on grand narratives about the shortcomings of the Liberal government (or Liberal Party) let's remember that individuals within these groups are filled with beliefs we might share and work hard for their constituents (in the case of elected MPs) in ways most if not all of us could hardly fault

I suppose a few things can be true at once, is my point, where spindle's larger point is 100% valid.. I just can't help thinking of the times I met with and spoke with a Liberal MLA in Alberta, years ago, back when that was about as thankless a role as you could have, and this person was just a decent and thoughtful human who was re-elected a few times in a province where the word "Liberal" was so closely tied to Trudeau Sr. it was a kiss of death

nowhere more than in politics can our herd mentality be so prominent. I'm saying nothing much, ignore me
posted by ginger.beef at 9:14 AM on January 6 [10 favorites]

spindle, yeah we sometimes forget he was running against Harper which has the charisma of a wet sock.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 9:15 AM on January 6 [3 favorites]

"The Liberal party is intellectually bankrupt. They have no vision and no direction. Trudeau was a reprieve: his charisma* and the mythology of his legacy effectively gave the Liberals a way to put off facing that existential crisis."

I agree with this. They have been the 'staying in power because we are the natural ruling party' party for way too long.

As a former Albertan who has been living in Toronto for a long time now, the 'mythology' of the Trudeau legacy was very much a two edged sword.

Rightly or wrongly (mostly wrongly) the Trudeau name had become a byword for central Canadian contempt for 'the west' (interior of BC, Alberta, Sask) before Justin became leader. His selection ended any chance of repairing the Liberal Party's standing in those areas and fed the fire that saw the Liberal Party as not caring about the west.

It was a choice to just cede those territories as permanent Conservative strongholds, in the same ways that the Democratic party gave up on red states and I'm afraid the long term results are going to suck.
posted by Dalekdad at 9:21 AM on January 6 [2 favorites]

Lol at that Trudeau pushed the party too far left

The very same party who capitulated to the increasing racism towards immigrants by slashing how many we can accept? That super left party?
posted by Kitteh at 9:46 AM on January 6 [7 favorites]

“Almost all of the MPs Global News spoke to believe Trudeau has moved the party too far to the left and that shift has played a key role in the decline of the Liberals.”

Lol good luck with that, guys.
posted by rodlymight at 9:51 AM on January 6 [11 favorites]

I think about the best we can hope for at this point (and even this is a horrible thought) is a minority government with PP at the helm, and I don’t think that’s even within reach.

I used to agree with the statement that we have 3 flavours of neoliberalism to choose from. Now we have 2 flavours of neoliberalism and 1 flavour of light fascism.

I am disappointed with Trudeau on so many fronts, but it’s the same level of disappointment I have with the system we’re living with when things aren’t changing for the better to the extent that I’d like.

I think PP is going to be a wrecking ball when it comes to any kind of societal well-being. I at least have a better chance of fairing okay through the tumult (though no guarantees) than some. There are going to be a lot of hurting folks at the end of this, and it’s not fair or okay.
posted by eekernohan at 9:53 AM on January 6 [3 favorites]

It’s funny how “centrists” across the west are like “Aaah we’re far too left, the people cry out to get fisted by their betters” while studiously averting their eyes from Mexico.
posted by rodlymight at 10:03 AM on January 6 [6 favorites]

running against Harper which has the charisma of a wet sock.

And had been Prime Minister long enough for most people. No political party in Canada has a vision that is viable beyond re-election, IMO. I'm sure individual MPs might but none of the parties are particularly motivated to focus on anything but maintaining and/or increasing seats.

Saying that, personally, I'd be surprised if Poilievre can hold his party together long enough to have a decade. He is a very volatile mouthy guy and he will have a lot of newly minted one issue socially conservative MPs he will have to keep from pushing anti-abortion legislation, conversion therapy and sundry conspiracies. Mouthiness is also not the greatest tact to take with Trump. And all that will be especially difficult when he's not made Canada a land of milk and honey that his slogans keep promising.
posted by Ashwagandha at 10:37 AM on January 6 [3 favorites]

Yeah, Milhouse Without the Glasses just did an interview with Jordan Peterson recently and christ, I could have done without all the coverage that didn't say "Look at these two assholes."
kitteh

I was disgusted with pretty much everything he had to say. I shouldn't be but I am shocked at how clear PP was about his stance on everything, and further shocked (although I shouldn't have been) at how little coverage this interview had in the media (or at least the media that I typically consume). From this liberal person's point of view, the Harper years are going to be a pale reflection of what this (likely) conservative government is going to be.

I'm disappointed that the Trudeau government didn't live up to anybody's expectations - it sounded so so good and in hindsight far too good to be true. Still, a person has to hope! I'm just glad that JT did the right thing by stepping down. Failure to do so would have been devastating to an already devastated party.
posted by ashbury at 10:45 AM on January 6 [2 favorites]

Trudeau getting his Overton defenestration should surprise no-one at this point. However, few of us beavers have any clue what Pepe will do beyond defunding the CBC and 'axing the (carbon) tax', as he has been understandably (from his perspective) coy about sharing anything on the policy front. As a perpetual optimist, I'm hoping against hope that things might not turn out as badly as some have suggested. Poilievre, odious political hack though he may be, is likely to have his hands full dealing with Trumpy tariffs and Canadian sovereignty issues, and I'm hoping his culture wars nonsense will not translate into any major shifts in government policy in the short term. That said, I'm interested to hear how he will maintain Canada's commitments on climate action when he has removed what is clearly a successful policy instrument - if poorly-marketed by the Liberals and reviled by his supporters. Also, I'm curious how he will square the immigration cap versus cheap labour pool conundrum without alienating either the 'mahfreedumz' bigots or the bizbro-capitalists which constitute his core support. Say goodbye to sunny ways, everybody, and buckle up.
posted by aeshnid at 10:46 AM on January 6 [8 favorites]

Trudeau's messaging on immigration, first nations rights and identity politics has definitely been on the left.

The surge in immigration combined with the housing debacle & general inflation, irrespectively of whether those are causally linked or not was pretty much guaranteed to make immigration a hot issue and topple any government.

At this point I don't even think a minority Conservative government is possible, Libs are toast, the NDP isn't seen as a credible alternative and the BQ only runs in Quebec.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 10:48 AM on January 6

Mouthiness is also not the greatest tact to take with Trump.

About that. My impression of PP is that he's a bully. From what I have seen he is cultivating an image of masculinity for a certain audience, and footage of his mouthiness often looks (to me) performative and meant for that audience.

I'd like to think he'll show some backbone with TFG but I think he'll fall into line very quickly and enthusiastically
posted by ginger.beef at 10:49 AM on January 6 [1 favorite]

Overton defenestration

This is a very good description. I may need to borrow your phrasing sometime.
posted by eekernohan at 10:53 AM on January 6 [2 favorites]

I'm interested to hear how he will maintain Canada's commitments on climate action when he has removed what is clearly a successful policy instrument - if poorly-marketed by the Liberals and reviled by his supporters.

He'll just ignore it.
posted by Mitheral at 10:56 AM on January 6 [4 favorites]

I want a time machine like warriorqueen apparently has. Because I’d take a majority Progressive Conservative government over Poilievre’s gang any day. Can’t see Poilievre and crew being anything but pro acid rain and apartheid. Guy would have an Embiggen the (Ozone) Hole shirt.
posted by house-goblin at 10:59 AM on January 6

I would like to add to the discussion the immense amount of disinformation, rage baiting, and anger farming aimed at Trudeau from the usual suspects. My social media has been flooded for a number of years now by squalid astroturf entities like Canada Proud, British Columbia Proud, etc, and all to the benefit of Pierre Piolievere, that odious little speck of shit on the sole of Canada's foot. I think it definitely played a p[art in the hate directed at Trudeau, though how much I could not say. That, and the fact that most of our mainstream media is right wing bode's ill for our collective future.
I have not seen this before, a massive disinformation campaign directed at a PM, with outside funding playing a crucial role as well. We also have Elmo threatening to fund the extreme right around the planet and best option is that he sends his largesse to wing nuts like Maxine Bernier, though I doubt that's going to happen.
Anyways, I have usually voted NDP on a federal level, I live in the most secure NDP riding in Canada, but sometimes Jagmeet, who seems like there's no there there, makes it so hard. I do not have a good feeling about what's to come.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 11:08 AM on January 6 [13 favorites]

→ Trudeau was a reprieve: his charisma …

The thing is, Harper had infinitely more charisma than whoever the LPC could field at the time. I worked for a guy who was senior in the LPC machine, and yes I've spoken (accidentally*) with both Stéphane Dion and Michael Ignatieff. They were both LPC leaders, though you'd hardly remember them.

*: dude was terrible at double-booking himself. Before disappearing into meetings, he'd yell at the office in general, "Hey, if my phone rings, someone answer it. If it's Iggy or Steph, come get me!"
posted by scruss at 11:22 AM on January 6

immense amount of disinformation

In that regard, I've noticed the Russian and Indian bots on various social platforms confusing Trudeau père with Trudeau fils today so there's that.
posted by Ashwagandha at 11:26 AM on January 6 [5 favorites]

I would like to add to the discussion the immense amount of disinformation, rage baiting, and anger farming aimed at Trudeau from the usual suspects.

it's funny how our discussions often circle back to topics which have appeared so frequently on the blue over the years.. we are facing a problem and no-one seems to know how to deal with it

just the other night on CBC I'm hearing about the increase in municipal governments dealing with disruptions during public sessions, to the point where some places will no longer admit the public due to security concerns and just generally needing to enact business while in session. And apparently security on Parliament Hill has been bolstered to respond to an increase of ~800% in terms of incidents ranging from general concerns to targeted threats against specific MPs

in my part of western Canada, it's stuff like Pride crosswalks and flags and people losing their shit and organizing plebiscites to curtail that. "keep our sidewalks and crosswalks neutral" bullshit

last provincial election people would come to NDP events and intimidate attendees

in many ways I'm happy to see Trudeau step down, don't let the door hit you on the way out, but this won't fix what the Liberal Party has become and it sure won't fix what we're facing in the coming years
posted by ginger.beef at 11:32 AM on January 6 [8 favorites]

That said, I'm interested to hear how he will maintain Canada's commitments on climate action when he has removed what is clearly a successful policy instrument - if poorly-marketed by the Liberals and reviled by his supporters.

I'm pretty sure he doesn't intend to maintain those commitments, who's going to enforce that? The US?
posted by WaterAndPixels at 11:56 AM on January 6 [1 favorite]

I have zero expectations of PP. Actually less than zero. But I even I couldn't believe how sad and pathetic it was that he had to release a prerecorded and rehearsed video statement (complete with background music) in response to what happened today.

Can you just imagine him as PM if something unexpected and major happens? He won't be able to utter a single word until he goes back to his media handlers, workshops a "clever" slogan, finds his best-tested clothing option, has his writers fire up the AI to cobble together a bunch of unrelated statements into a script, practice it with the teleprompter until he sounds vaguely like a human (and less like an attack robot) and then edit it together with whatever they can find in an online library of canned music.
posted by sardonyx at 11:56 AM on January 6 [3 favorites]

warriorqueen: I am looking forward to the provincial conservative governments having to own their policies rather than blame Trudeau. Looking at Alberta and Ontario in particular here.

I mean, but I think their provincial conservative base will still accept excuses blaming Trudeau. In the last BC election, which the BC Conservatives lost by only the slimmest of margins, people were interviewed leaving the polling stations saying they had voted (BC) Conservative to get Trudeau out. By voting in a provincial election. I had various versions of this conversation with more than one person in real life.

The level at which Canadians do not understand the difference between provincial and federal government entities shouldn’t be underestimated. I think there are plenty of people who would have no problem believing their woes can be blamed on Trudeau rather than their provincial government.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 12:00 PM on January 6 [8 favorites]

When I saw the headline a minute after going online for the first time today, I exclaimed, "SHIT!!!!"

After further thought I don't think I can improve on that statement. Now we're in for Pierre Poilievre. I had hoped Trudeau could hold in there long enough for Pee Pee to crash and burn as Tory leader, but no.
posted by orange swan at 12:09 PM on January 6

Ahh, warriorqueen, I now understand that you probably also meant that if PP takes over from JT, the provincial cons will not be able to blame JT for things anymore. But again—I don’t anticipate the “blame Trudeau” rhetoric will be much dimmed even if PP is the one running the country. When the neocon BC Liberals were in power for nearly 20 years here, they never stopped blaming the previous NDP gov’t for things. I was like dude, you have actually been at the helm for nearly 2 decades. When do things start being your fault? The answer, apparently: never.

And of course, like I said, provincial/federal…well it’s all just semantics to a lot of the voting public.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 12:14 PM on January 6 [2 favorites]

Nora Loreto: Political discourse today is like "Pierre Poilievre is rolling around with pigs and if he isn't careful, he will get shit on him. This is unbefitting of his office" while Poilievre is just pounding down shit sandwiches while his fans cheer.
posted by monkeymike at 12:14 PM on January 6 [3 favorites]

Speaking of the blame game, PP puts the blame for the housing crisis directly on Trudeau yet according to this CBC article it has its root in Mulroney-era leadership, then Chretien, then Harper.
posted by ashbury at 12:16 PM on January 6 [2 favorites]

The level at which Canadians do not understand the difference between provincial and federal government entities shouldn’t be underestimated. I think there are plenty of people who would have no problem believing their woes can be blamed on Trudeau rather than their provincial government.

I remain astounded at how many Canadians do not understand who is responsible for what federally, provincially, and municipally.
posted by Kitteh at 12:22 PM on January 6 [2 favorites]

Does PP have a chance in Quebec, or will the Bloc pick up most of the Liberal vote ,which I assume will collapse?

If the Bloc gets 60 seats in Quebec and the NDP can pick up a healthy chunk of Liberal votes elsewhere, this could still be an interesting four-way fight.
posted by Rumple at 12:27 PM on January 6 [2 favorites]

responsible for what federally, provincially, and municipally.

Or, I would add, understand how some of our problems have roots in previous governments. Sometimes recent governments but some from generations ago.
posted by Ashwagandha at 12:28 PM on January 6 [2 favorites]

....people were interviewed leaving the polling stations saying they had voted (BC) Conservative to get Trudeau out. By voting in a provincial election. I had various versions of this conversation with more than one person in real life.

The level at which Canadians do not understand the difference between provincial and federal government entities shouldn’t be underestimated.

I'm from Quebec and old enough to have been bathed in all the constitutional drama that occurred since the 70s, that split has been in the news for as long as I can remember. I get that some people aren't familiar with the finer points of what is a provincial or federal responsibility/jurisdiction.... but.....I will never be able to understand people who don't get we have different provincial and federal government, do you not pay any attention to what is happening?
posted by WaterAndPixels at 12:40 PM on January 6 [1 favorite]

I find this a handy thing to post when people are confused about who does what. I have it as a jpg to which I have added the URL at the bottom.
posted by joannemerriam at 12:45 PM on January 6 [3 favorites]

Does PP have a chance in Quebec, or will the Bloc pick up most of the Liberal vote ,which I assume will collapse?

So far it's not a smashing success. The Bloc will pick up a lot of the votes, Montreal is still pretty red with strongholds that are unlikely to fall.

This will probably change once the campaign start and people start to decide who they don't vote for.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 12:50 PM on January 6 [2 favorites]

Despite that clean division of jurisdictions in principle, remember that the Federal government has ways, mainly by financial incentives, to influence Provincial affairs, most notably the significant money they put into healthcare and higher education in exchange for certain policies or regulations.

Also note the divide-and-conquer of First Nations, where major parts of the relationship are split between Provincial and Federal Crown ensuring everything is harder than it needs to be, meanwhile First Nations are shut out from municipality governance which goes some way to understanding why sewage and drinking water are such widespread problems on reserves, even on urban ones surrounded by municipalities.
posted by Rumple at 12:53 PM on January 6 [2 favorites]

"I don’t anticipate the “blame Trudeau” rhetoric will be much dimmed even if PP is the one running the country."

Doug Ford still blames the NDP government for things, despite the NDP not having been in power this millennium. And every now and then we'll still hear about GAS PLANTS as if it were a necromancer's charm (and overlooking the fact that all three parties wanted them gone but whatever).

Trudeau is going to be a boogeyman for a long, long time to come.
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:56 PM on January 6 [4 favorites]

Does PP have a chance in Quebec, or will the Bloc pick up most of the Liberal vote ,which I assume will collapse?

Also I might add, it's a completely different media ecosystem. Whatever they do in the ROC doesn't really percolate here due to the language/media effects.

Although my impression is that this gap is narrowing for the younger citizens who do not follow traditional news media as much as their elders.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 1:09 PM on January 6 [3 favorites]

Or, I would add, understand how some of our problems have roots in previous governments. Sometimes recent governments but some from generations ago.

Oh my god, YES. Trudeau prorogueing (sp?) Parliament until March 24th is the same tactic Harper used a lot to avoid an election, and you better believe Conservatives will develop convenient amnesia all of a sudden.
posted by Kitteh at 1:10 PM on January 6 [4 favorites]

Oh sure, they'll blame him in rhetoric and some portion of people will believe it, but I think a percentage of swing voters do get tired of it. Maybe this is an Ontario/GTA thing...I have to admit I find the Western alienation thing a mystery although I hear it.

I sometimes read the comments on things or dip into Sun Media, and about a year and a half ago I saw an uptick in comments that go something like "Ford's had enough time. FIX THIS" except less literate. I think Navigator picked up on it (or whoever) because Ford stopped saying that a few months later.

That's one thing I'll give Doug Ford, and Rob Ford before him...he doesn't make the mistake of ignoring that kind of research. Like I really hate the guy's politics, and he's a character. But I know from people inside OPS that for the first year he was in, Ford would flip policies based on people calling his cell phone (a number he was still answering, and had given out.) I think he's gotten much more sophisticated about it but I think his social listening people have a lot of weight. I wish the Liberals and NDP would get with it, and do broad listening, not just like, Toronto Star readers. As much as I am one.
posted by warriorqueen at 1:11 PM on January 6 [3 favorites]

Correction: prorogation allows the leading party to find a candidate to run instead of dissolving Parliament, which does trigger an election. (I learned a new thing!)

Harper did it in 2008 and twice in 2010.

The amnesia comment still applies.
posted by Kitteh at 1:13 PM on January 6 [1 favorite]

I'd trade Danielle Smith to get Doug Ford, that is all I have to say about that
posted by ginger.beef at 1:13 PM on January 6 [2 favorites]

I'd trade Danielle Smith to get Doug Ford

No thank you. But maybe the Oilers for the Leafs?
posted by Ashwagandha at 1:15 PM on January 6 [2 favorites]

Hard Times at the FTFF.
posted by Capt. Renault at 1:23 PM on January 6 [3 favorites]

oh you scamp!
posted by ginger.beef at 1:24 PM on January 6 [1 favorite]

I have to admit I find the Western alienation thing a mystery although I hear it.

Trudeau senior implemented the National Energy Program in the 80s, which amongst other things regulated oil prices (thus reducing revenues in oil producing Alberta) and encroaches on the provincial jurisdiction that is energy. Not saying we didn't need to do something after the oil crisis in the 70s but that left a bad taste. The coincidental recession that occurred in the 80s got blamed on that program in Alberta, but that's more of a coincidence if I have my facts right.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 1:24 PM on January 6 [1 favorite]

Is there any chance the NDP will look at their polling and run their own leadership contest too? Nothing against Jagmeet Singh but they need a new leader as well if they want a chance at not getting wiped out either.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:28 PM on January 6 [2 favorites]

I'd trade Danielle Smith to get Doug Ford, that is all I have to say about that

Yeah I wouldn't take that one...Doug Ford does believe in cancer at least. I actually have a little sympathy for the Fords; it's probably a form of Toronto Stockholm syndrome. I think Doug Ford is absolutely evil around things like ODSP funding and education and I would like to take pieces of the Science Centre and hurl them into his office. But I don't class him with fundamentalist right wing lunatics.

I've recommended this too many times but I think the Gravy Train podcast is a good one on the success of the Fords (esp episode 2, I think). And while populist nightmares continue, I do think there is so much for the left to learn.

And yah, I get the NEP was an issue (I think PET's fault is very much the same as JT's - no care for optics and also hell bent on policies without really weighing the cost in goodwill, although PET's seem to have been better implemented), I just am amazed at how long that's stayed. I mean Alberta was rich with the Alberta Fund, built probably the best health care system in Canada, but now is taking all that down in the name of Fuck Trudeau,
posted by warriorqueen at 1:28 PM on January 6 [1 favorite]

The same people who harbour the most anger against Pierre Trudeau for that decision seem to become the canniest economists and point to Norway to blame Justin Trudeau as though it's his fault we don't have the same oil wealth as the country that nationalized their energy sector in the 1970s and managed it like a sane country instead of the Houston-Junior bullshit with Alberta
posted by ginger.beef at 1:29 PM on January 6 [5 favorites]

I'd be surprised if the party doesn't use that term to establish some long range plans that will permanently alter Canada, not the least of which being successive so-called Conservative governments

Harper was far more competent at running government than Poilievre. He wasn't able to effect any change that lasted more than 2-3 years on the federal service. The Harper legacy is next to nothing now. All his major legislation has been changed or nerfed, his signature criminal justice changes are largely gone or have been made irrelevant by the courts, few if any of his trade and infrastructure deals ever got off the ground or were substantially finished by the Trudeau team.

Poilievre, coming in is astonishingly inexperienced in actually getting things done, considering he has 10 years nominally in cabinet and another 10 as a member of the shadow cabinet. He has never drafted legislation, never seen a bill through parliament, never administered a federal program of any scope.

He has lots of vague plans to make plans (his words), and lots of personal energy. But his is quite literally the person who gets what he wants and has no idea what to do with it when he gets it.

I wish old Mr. Rabbit Skin was more head than hat, but this is a guy who, until 2022, listed the single best thing in his career on his own webpage as handing over the cheque for a local bridge (it is a very nice bridge to be fair). So I have a doubt and a few more besides.
posted by bonehead at 1:29 PM on January 6 [2 favorites]

To the point of what is or isn't Trudeaus fault, I found this to be useful: To The Business Council of Canada: Don't Piss on My Leg and Tell me It's Raining
Dougald Lamont is a former MLA and leader of the Manitoba LP and generally sharp guy for a substack follow.
posted by bonehead at 1:41 PM on January 6 [4 favorites]

I'm going to fantasize for a bit about Stephane Dion coming back and resurrecting and openly running on a coalition government platform. At the very least, I'll get the dubious pleasure of hearing the people who say government can't do anything right screaming and complaining that such governments can't get anything done.
posted by house-goblin at 1:57 PM on January 6 [1 favorite]

I mean Alberta was rich with the Alberta Fund, built probably the best health care system in Canada, but now is taking all that down in the name of Fuck Trudeau.

Alberta could be rolling around in money for their public services if they managed the oil money properly and accepted minimal taxes. But Alberta gotta Alberta, I don't get it but that's how it is.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 1:57 PM on January 6 [2 favorites]

He has lots of vague plans to make plans (his words), and lots of personal energy.

I believe the technical term is "concepts of a plan".
posted by WaterAndPixels at 1:58 PM on January 6 [2 favorites]

"I'm going to fantasize for a bit about Stephane Dion coming back and resurrecting and openly running on a coalition government platform."

The news channel in the office featured an interview with Thomas Mulcair, so if they can find *him*, Dion should be a breeze.

Also: Thomas Mulcair is still alive.
posted by Capt. Renault at 2:03 PM on January 6 [1 favorite]

Thomas Mulcar is now political pundit now, he should be easy to find ;)

Stephane Dion is Canada's ambassador to France, also easy to find ;)
posted by WaterAndPixels at 2:18 PM on January 6 [3 favorites]

To the point of what is or isn't Trudeaus fault, I found this to be useful: To The Business Council of Canada: Don't Piss on My Leg and Tell me It's Raining. Dougald Lamont is a former MLA and leader of the Manitoba LP and generally sharp guy for a substack follow.
posted by bonehead

I’m going to read that solely based on the excellent title (it’s one of my favourite grumpy sayings, though he substitutes the slightly politer “leg” for “head”).
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 2:34 PM on January 6

Here Are Four Possible Contenders to Succeed Justin Trudeau

Whoever replaces Mr. Trudeau as the leader of Canada’s Liberal Party will become the prime minister. Not long after they’ll face a general election, and the daunting challenge of keeping the job.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 2:34 PM on January 6 [1 favorite]

Hmm… this Mulcair business has introduced a fly into my fantasy ointment. I’ll just have to revise the fantasy to have a furious Charlie Angus come out of retirement to wrestle the chair away from Mulcair.

While I’m at it, I’ll also imagine there’s an obscure parliamentary position of official hand-shaker to the POTUS and greeter to the First Lady that Justin can be assigned to. It would also be great if some old procedural rule could be used to force a boxing match between Justin and god wrestler Jordan Peterson.
posted by house-goblin at 2:37 PM on January 6 [4 favorites]

Having thought about this a bit… I wonder how Trump’s forthcoming erratic actions will affect what happens here, it’s probably the biggest wildcard, not sure that it really can jumble opinion enough to change the results but what he does and how the various parties react might change a few things…
posted by WaterAndPixels at 2:56 PM on January 6 [2 favorites]

Funnily enough, I had called this back in November. Idk, between the creeping conspiracy theorizing of the internet, the pandemic and its many consequences (including inflation), and Trudeau’s general pretty-boy centrist fecklessness, wasn’t this inevitable? Macron is much more Machiavellian than he is, and even he has basically retained power only by giving concessions to the far right parties.

(I also mentioned South Korea in that thread- not a great time for liberal democracy, indeed.)
posted by Apocryphon at 3:02 PM on January 6

Is Christia Freeland going to run for the leadership? If Trudeau had decided to resign in November and they were holding a leadership conference then I don't see a chance for her. I'm sure party delegates would want to vote for her but she's been Trudeau's right hand (wo)man his entire time in government so even if she won the leadership I don't think her chances in an election would be any better than Trudeau's.

But Freeland's very public resignation is what forced this whole crisis and Trudeau's resignation to begin with. So maybe in a Liberal party that's moving to the right/centre for the election she can paint herself as the one trying to bring some fiscal reality to Trudeau's woke schemes for income redistribution the whole time. Still feels like a stretch to me but I do remember the string of articles last month all saying just how good she was and what a loss for Trudeau her resignation would be. I have no doubt that the Sun and National Post and their readers can easily do the mental 180 to her being a bum the whole time but it'll be a bit harder for the Globe or Toronto Star to walk that back, although no doubt they'll try.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 4:26 PM on January 6 [1 favorite]

I think she’ll try, there’s a good chance she gets KimCambelled if she gets the position. I can’t foresee a way she doesn’t get to carry the discontentment people have for Trudeau, she was too center in that government to avoid it.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 4:49 PM on January 6 [6 favorites]

This graph of polls over time, shows that ten months after PP became leader, there was no change in the polls; Liberals and Cons were tied. Four federal by-elections in June 2023 - no seats changed places, the polls were flat. The Cons only started gaining in polls when Meta started blocking all Canadian news, and the Cons start spending more on ads. So was news on Meta previously acting as a counter balance to the right wing rage machine?

I'm in a safe Liberal seat so I didn't vote for Trudeau last time; protesting the pipeline purchase. But I'd vote for him or any underdog Liberal, now. I like their policies; Carbon rebate, pandemic handling, $10 a day day care (though that doesn't seem to exist due to Doug Ford).
posted by ecco at 5:37 PM on January 6 [3 favorites]

May I ask – which of the likely replacements for Trudeau as Liberal leader/PM do Canadian MeFites view as the best choice?
posted by Panthalassa at 5:44 PM on January 6

Dominic LeBlanc would be the obvious scrappy choice who could likely get under PP’s lizard skin, but he has monumental Trudeau baggage. Chrystia Freeland has the bloody-dagger street creds, and could probably also pose some challenges for the Tories, but to be honest, the rest are all Trudeau footsoldiers who lack any public recognition, and would struggle to inspire the average beaver. Maybe they need to think outside the box and merge with the NDP to give Jagmeet a chance to show off his chops?
Outside of that I have no clue… It’s a sad state of affairs indeed.
posted by aeshnid at 5:57 PM on January 6

I like Chrystia Freeland a lot, but she's a policy brain and not a cat-herder/baby-kisser. Going for the Liberal leadership would be a bad fit for her, as it would be for anyone (like Carney) at this point in time. LPC are essentially virtually finished for this election cycle, and anyone who steps up will have tough time in 2025.

Jagmeet Singh is a good policy critic, but he doesn't have the appeal to bring more votes in. NDP really needed a leader now with more vision & charisma to take advantage of this big change coming up. (Also, they should have pushed for electoral reform when they had the chance in the minority govt, but they didn't go for it).

Justin Trudeau's future legacy will be tarnished by his dropping electoral reform; like any egoistic politician, when he got his first big landslide he'd thought that his electorate would love him forever... but forever is a short time in politics. Thanks for the cannabis, dude! (really, it's good;) Tried to make some inroads with First Nations (more than any other PM) but oh well. Kept the interest rates too low and let the awful housing crisis fester. But did a pretty good job managing the Covid crisis.

Conservative-owned media in Canada is bashing hard on those relentless drumbeats for a CPC/PP cakewalk (like they successfully walked in the odious Ford in Ontario). Unlike Ontario, Canada has a big Quebec bloc that won't dance with the Cons unless they can offer something worthwhile.

In a perfect Canada, with the PQ splitting some votes, the headless Libs & lame NDP would squeeeeze in just enough votes for a minority CPC govt that could temper the worst ongoing damage that moronic PP could possibly wreak.
posted by ovvl at 5:57 PM on January 6 [4 favorites]

Freeland knows how to run a country. She ran the foreign and finance ministries and between the two was in charge of intergovernmental affairs (aka dealing with all the nutty premieres). But she's my MP and I have zero idea where she stands on any sort of social policy. I think she stepped down to sit out this bloodbath and run to be the leader after Trudeau's replacement gets trounced.

Joly has been kind of set up to be the next JT within the party. Youngish, attractive, and from Montreal. I think she'd be good for people who want more of what Trudeau symbolized in 2015.

LeBlanc is very much a Trudeau/Liberal insider. Their dads worked together. He'd be good for people who want more of how Trudeau actually governed for the past three terms.

Carney is very much like Michael Ignatieff. In both cases the Liberals went looking for a policy wonk who left Canada for a most prestigious foreign position (Ignatieff was teaching at Harvard when the Liberals came calling. Carney ran the Bank of Canada until he left to run the Bank of England). Considering his role in running central banks, he's surprising progressive on issues like the environment and wealth inequality but the Liberals have never had success at bringing in a policy wonk as leader to show how serious they are (see both Ignatieff and Dion).
posted by thecjm at 6:05 PM on January 6 [3 favorites]

ovvl, I think you meant BQ not PQ, PSPP isn't running a federal campaign :)

Now....humor me for a second... so... for shits & giggles... I would love to see YFB run BQ candidates in ridings outside of Quebec, I swear aside from the independence thing, they could siphon a lot of the 'angry at Libs' vote away from the CPC.

It makes absolutely no sense at all, especially with the name of the party and some of the platform elements, but I would be very curious to see how it unfolds. He's nowhere near as progressive for Mefi's crowd, but between him or PP the choice is easy.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 6:52 PM on January 6 [2 favorites]

thecjm, Carney is a relative unknown like Ignatieff, although I guess running the Bank of Canada and Englands sound a bit more impressive an practical to some, compared to being an Harvard professor (prestigious as that may be). I assume he'll try to get closer and better known but will find a way to sit that one out, doesn't seem like a guy who want to lead a party to defeat and them have to resign.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 6:56 PM on January 6

The next leader will almost certainly be Anglo, as the Liberal Party traditionally alternates between Anglophone and Francophone leaders. So, if we assume the Liberals are toast for this election cycle, who will step forward to be the sacrificial lemming? Carney? Freeland? Jody Wilson-Raybould? Christy Clark?
posted by e-man at 8:38 PM on January 6

Perhaps Catherine McKenna could be poised for a return, having stepped outside the fold for just long enough.

She was subject to an immense amount of abuse — would stepping up be enough to shelter her from that?
posted by Capt. Renault at 8:57 PM on January 6

I think Doug Ford is absolutely evil around things like ODSP funding and education and I would like to take pieces of the Science Centre and hurl them into his office. But I don't class him with fundamentalist right wing lunatics.

The Fords aren't personally religious fundamentalists, but like Reagan they have no problem at all making common cause with religious fundamentalists (see McVety, Charles). Unlike Reagan they're also well-known as raging homophobes.

Seriously, the fact that Doug is probably a better person than Danielle Smith is like saying stage three colon cancer is preferable to stage four. It's true, but kinda meaningless.
posted by mightygodking at 9:13 PM on January 6 [3 favorites]

Some say winter is coming, but I say cannibalism is. I am curious about how PP's dick-swinging rhetoric will tangle with the Don's dick-swinging rhetoric. It seems unlikely that PP will lose time kissing the Don's ring, but his supporters seem to expect PP to stand up to the Don. Who will he choose to disappoint?
posted by SnowRottie at 9:30 PM on January 6 [1 favorite]

Perhaps Catherine McKenna could be poised for a return, having stepped outside the fold for just long enough.


She was the person who told us all that the Tar Sands and the Oil Industry were our allies in the fight against climate change, and all us silly hippy environmentalists needed to STFU and get with the program. Yeah, she has acknowledged now that she was full of shit, but still. I would certainly be very resistant to voting for her given what she did.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 4:04 AM on January 7

My only current hope is:
- the Liberals find someone remotely palatable as leader
- TFG down south takes power and immediately starts breaking things (sorry to my American friends and all the damage that will cause, but you know he's going to eventually)
- enough of my fellow Canadians have second thoughts about importing that crap.

I'm not sure what we end up with but if it's not a PP majority I'll be content enough.
posted by cirhosis at 7:00 AM on January 7 [1 favorite]

In the spirit of trying to be optimistic, I’m hoping that the polls start to favour the cons a bit less now that an impending election is an actual reality, and now that Trudeau has announced his departure.

To be clear, I am not optimistic. But that’s the most optimism I can muster.

I’d take Freeland at this point because she’s competent… but it would be heartbreaking to see yet another competent woman walk straight off the glass cliff. In my heart of hearts, I’d really prefer someone more interested in injecting a little
more socialism into our capitalist system. Freeland is well entrenched in neoliberalism, which I’m not a fan of.

For me the main mission is voting for the candidate in my riding who is most likely going to unseat the conservative incumbent. But that’s a tall order as our riding doesn’t veer far from blue very often. Though there are increasingly dissenting pockets on that matter. To be fair, our MP shows up for Pride and is pretty small
“c” as conservatives go. But I’m not convinced he has the fortitude to stand up for whatever principles he might have if push comes to shove.
posted by eekernohan at 7:31 AM on January 7 [3 favorites]

if we are looking for a silver lining, at least we get to see the full range of expressions on the face of Chantel Hebert over the next few weeks as this topic remains at the forefront

last night, Andrew Coyne reserved a special measure of ire for the timing of Trudeau stepping down.. we really are in a weakened state to be going into Round 2 with TFG and he's worse than last time.. 51st state and all that. It's like making the final round of the playoffs and firing your coach and trading your McDavid before Game 1 of the series

the Fox News clip they kept featuring during CBC's broadcast last night really got under the skin, I'm having a hard time coming to terms with how bad things are with the neighbour, and how much it's pulling us into all that bullshit over time. fuck
posted by ginger.beef at 7:39 AM on January 7 [3 favorites]

Bring back Joe Clark!
posted by mazola at 8:04 AM on January 7

It's like making the final round of the playoffs and firing your coach and trading your McDavid before Game 1 of the series


Or in Quebec terms, like when the Journal De Montreal loses their shit when a Canadiens player, who is likely black, fails their weekly Dictée at a news conference.
posted by Ashwagandha at 8:14 AM on January 7

the Liberals find someone remotely palatable as leader

I think they will. But whoever they get will be a scapegoat so they need to be ready for that. My hope is that they actually vette their candidates for MP better (as they failed to do with Raj Saini or Marwan Tabbara) .
posted by Ashwagandha at 8:19 AM on January 7

It frustrates me that, in reality, Canadian democracy is built around electing local members of parliament, who are then expected to work with other elected MPs to form a government, and select from themselves a representative to serve as Prime Minister. Which makes perfect sense, if you live in a society in which the fastest means of conveying information is horses and boats.

But today, we're addicted to Great Man theory, and we behave as if we are voting for Prime Minister, and seem to expect them to be the director of policy for their party, as opposed to it's mouthpiece. I don't know how to articulate this thought exactly, but I really feel like we have it all backwards somehow.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 8:23 AM on January 7 [4 favorites]

But today, we're addicted to Great Man theory, and we behave as if we are voting for Prime Minister, and seem to expect them to be the director of policy for their party, as opposed to it's mouthpiece. I don't know how to articulate this thought exactly, but I really feel like we have it all backwards somehow.

I remember Shepherd explaining to my family how the Parliamentary system worked (my sister: "do y'all worship the Queen?") and that Canadians elect the party not the head of the party, and wow is that no longer true.
posted by Kitteh at 8:27 AM on January 7 [2 favorites]

Somebody was joking yesterday that Trudeau resigned because team Canada got eliminated from the World Juniors. Honestly, I'm pretty sure PP tried to find a way to link JT to that.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 8:28 AM on January 7 [1 favorite]

Seems the first fight is how the leadership selection plays out: short (to allow Canadians to 'get to know' the new leader, or max (to allow for robust grassroots selection).
posted by mazola at 8:39 AM on January 7

I really feel like we have it all backwards somehow.

We have an 800 pound (362.87kg) gorilla to our south that dominates our media so it skews things. I personally don't find having a parliamentary government frustrating as it means that a lot of stuff that befalls places like the US don't happen in the same way here. I'd love electoral reform though (just like Trudeau oddly enough - too bad he wasn't in a position to fix that...) which I think would at least balance things a bit more and force more collaboration between the parties. What I find more frustrating, as was mentioned above, is that people (and politicians! Especially you Jagmeet!) often confuse which level of government does what and blame the wrong people for their issues. Finding the right person to blame is an important part of a democracy.
posted by Ashwagandha at 10:57 AM on January 7 [1 favorite]

Trudeau is going to be a boogeyman for a long, long time to come.

Some people i work with whose parents weren't even born when the NEP ended are still mad about it. The grudge whipped up by oil interests over it makes the Hatfields and McCoys look like a bunch of pikers. And I bet there are already people who think that Justin was the one who implemented it.

This is one place where retiring the Liberal party, at least in name, would be advantageous. Conservative parties embrace a name change on a regular basis at least partially to shed old baggage; the Liberals should do the same.
posted by Mitheral at 11:02 AM on January 7 [1 favorite]

"I would be surprised to the point of astonishment if Mark Carney gets involved."

Same. I can't see him stepping in just as the Grits enter eight years of rebuilding mode. He's not that guy.

Counterpoint: Carney is old enough that he might feel this is his last shot at a run.

And yes, I recognize the obvious counterpoint of American geriatric politics. Not everyone wants to keep seeking power that late in life, though.
posted by thoughtful_jester at 11:23 AM on January 7

Perhaps Catherine McKenna could be poised for a return

She seemed definitively done to me. The guy who stalked her kids, sending her pictures of them with threats capped it.

She was the person who told us all that the Tar Sands and the Oil Industry were our allies in the fight against climate change, and all us silly hippy environmentalists needed to STFU and get with the program.

That's and exaggerated and frankly not a very good faith reading of what the messaging was at the time. They were trying to engage the polluters to come to the table, and seemingly had had a little success. Which turned out to be mostly faked up project in the end.

Keep in mind that Canada was one of the first countries to really technically nail down emissions from real measurement for both CO2 and methane (methane in particular)---her ministry lead that work. The people who burst the industry bubble in the late 2010s on self-reported and presumed oil and gas emissions were ECCC employees with real remote sensing direct measurements. I don't think it's fair to say that she and the government went along blindly. They were absolutely not taking industry at its word on GHG emissions.

It was also ECCC labs in that same timeframe who helped discover the VW cheating on vehicle particulate emissions testing, btw.

Full disclosure, I know some of these people professionally and even personally.
posted by bonehead at 11:25 AM on January 7 [9 favorites]

This is one place where retiring the Liberal party, at least in name, would be advantageous. Conservative parties embrace a name change on a regular basis at least partially to shed old baggage; the Liberals should do the same.

BC Liberals changed their name to BC United and then a year later they “united” with the BC Conservative Party.
posted by rodlymight at 12:41 PM on January 7 [2 favorites]

And former leader of the BC Liberals, Christy Clark is considering running for the federal Liberals.
posted by Ashwagandha at 3:13 PM on January 7

I just wish there was some website or whatever so we voters could collude at a national level and not split the vote too badly to give pee pee the mantle. ABC vote - anything but conservative.

So what ya voting guys? Liberal? I’ll hold my nose and vote liberal. NDP? Sure whatever. Just tell me what YOU are doing so I know what I can do. Fuk it I’d vote rhinoceros party if it stood a chance.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 3:16 PM on January 7

BC Liberals have never been an equivalent to federal Liberals - they were the dominant right wing party of BC. The fact that Christy Clark has talking about a Liberal leadership race is absolutely hilarious. Four years ago she was talking about running for federal Conservative leadership.

I think federal Liberals could doom themselves as BC Liberals did with a name change. I feel like the federal Liberal brand is too longstanding for them to throw away.
posted by lookoutbelow at 3:34 PM on January 7

Trudeau immediately begs for job back after realising he’ll need to buy a house.
posted by Ashwagandha at 7:22 AM on January 8