John Le Carré on Iraq-War
March 20, 2003 5:32 PM Subscribe
- "But will people be killed, Daddy?"
- "Nobody you know, darling. Just foreign people."
This hypothetical dialogue created by british writer John Le Carré in an article for the Times Online makes me wonder if there are people who really think of this world with that distance of the reality. By the way, the whole Carré's article has interesting insights about the ongoing war (although it was written two months before its beginning).
- "Nobody you know, darling. Just foreign people."
This hypothetical dialogue created by british writer John Le Carré in an article for the Times Online makes me wonder if there are people who really think of this world with that distance of the reality. By the way, the whole Carré's article has interesting insights about the ongoing war (although it was written two months before its beginning).
zack de la rocha and dj shadow have some thoughts on the war issue as well
posted by specialk420 at 5:53 PM on March 20, 2003
posted by specialk420 at 5:53 PM on March 20, 2003
"If Saddam didn’t have the oil, he could torture his citizens to his heart’s content. Other leaders do it every day — think Saudi Arabia, think Pakistan, think Turkey, think Syria, think Egypt" and that's the interesting part of the article.
.....what a minute...you forgot North Korea...
Aren't the North Koreans oppressed too ? And for how long ? Exactly why nobody but a bunch of "hippies" and some organization like Amnesty International care ?
Should we expect them to be "liberated" soon by the same coalition that is "liberating" iraquis now ?
And most important question...why now, why tomorrow and why not in the last 12 years ..you do a lot of things in 12 years, if you really really want to.
posted by elpapacito at 6:10 PM on March 20, 2003
.....what a minute...you forgot North Korea...
Aren't the North Koreans oppressed too ? And for how long ? Exactly why nobody but a bunch of "hippies" and some organization like Amnesty International care ?
Should we expect them to be "liberated" soon by the same coalition that is "liberating" iraquis now ?
And most important question...why now, why tomorrow and why not in the last 12 years ..you do a lot of things in 12 years, if you really really want to.
posted by elpapacito at 6:10 PM on March 20, 2003
BitterRantFilter
posted by Spacelegoman at 6:16 PM on March 20, 2003
posted by Spacelegoman at 6:16 PM on March 20, 2003
elpapacito -- you just made a really good case for why we should increase our involvement against tyranny. As we can see in Iraq, it's never a simple or easy matter.
posted by stbalbach at 6:31 PM on March 20, 2003
posted by stbalbach at 6:31 PM on March 20, 2003
zack de la rocha and dj shadow have some thoughts on the war issue as well
No shit? Zack de la Rocha and "DJ Shadow" have some thoughts on the war? I've been waiting to find out what they had to say! I'll go read their thoughts now -- I'm sure they're well-reasoned and balanced.
posted by pardonyou? at 6:39 PM on March 20, 2003
No shit? Zack de la Rocha and "DJ Shadow" have some thoughts on the war? I've been waiting to find out what they had to say! I'll go read their thoughts now -- I'm sure they're well-reasoned and balanced.
posted by pardonyou? at 6:39 PM on March 20, 2003
check out your tv -- helicopter crash in Kuwait -- there's apparently 16 Allied soldiers dead (12 American - 4 British)
posted by matteo at 6:40 PM on March 20, 2003
posted by matteo at 6:40 PM on March 20, 2003
stbalb: increase involvment ? And why just today ? Because you just "woke up" maybe ? You can tell tales to childrens and they'll believe you, adults will not.
posted by elpapacito at 6:44 PM on March 20, 2003
posted by elpapacito at 6:44 PM on March 20, 2003
Maybe there are lots of dictators in the world that the US could topple, and maybe Saddam's just an easy target with lots of oil and therefore the first choice. But then again we could also be doing a lot more to prevent these regimes from taking control, like maybe.. not doing business with them?
posted by destro at 6:47 PM on March 20, 2003
posted by destro at 6:47 PM on March 20, 2003
Destro: in the next few months, look at who will get the reconstruction of iraq contracts. Send the bill to the people from every side (coalition,iraq) that will die, they'll not complain. And it will also be very interesting to follow where the stream of oil money goes.
posted by elpapacito at 6:56 PM on March 20, 2003
posted by elpapacito at 6:56 PM on March 20, 2003
And most important question...why now, why tomorrow and why not in the last 12 years ..you do a lot of things in 12 years, if you really really want to.
Like set up a bunch of companies that will profit by war...
Say, how did Bush get to be President anyway? I don't believe for a moment that he was the best candidate the Republicans had running for the leadership.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:09 PM on March 20, 2003
Like set up a bunch of companies that will profit by war...
Say, how did Bush get to be President anyway? I don't believe for a moment that he was the best candidate the Republicans had running for the leadership.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:09 PM on March 20, 2003
5fish: I don't have the names now, but you should look at companies that will do the infrastructure reconstruction (roads,bridges,electricity,telephone, oil fields,pipelines, buldings,television) and a hoard of other business that will be paid with money from the sale of oil.
That will surely mean hundred thousand of new jobs in the next years for iraquis , but as usual they'll only see a fraction of the enormous wealth of iraq oil fields.
But the greatest battle will not be fought on the sands of iraq, but a silent battle between companies because there will be thousand of companies interested into getting their share. And that's the mother of all battles, considering the size of what's at stake.
posted by elpapacito at 7:23 PM on March 20, 2003
That will surely mean hundred thousand of new jobs in the next years for iraquis , but as usual they'll only see a fraction of the enormous wealth of iraq oil fields.
But the greatest battle will not be fought on the sands of iraq, but a silent battle between companies because there will be thousand of companies interested into getting their share. And that's the mother of all battles, considering the size of what's at stake.
posted by elpapacito at 7:23 PM on March 20, 2003
you just made a really good case for why we should increase our involvement against tyranny.
Yes the wolf should guard the sheep:
Pinochet, Duvalier, Papadopoulos, Marcos, Suharto, Mobutu, Botha, Somoza, Batista, Pahlavi etc.
... umm, no thanks!
posted by talos at 5:08 AM on March 21, 2003
Yes the wolf should guard the sheep:
Pinochet, Duvalier, Papadopoulos, Marcos, Suharto, Mobutu, Botha, Somoza, Batista, Pahlavi etc.
... umm, no thanks!
posted by talos at 5:08 AM on March 21, 2003
David Cornwall is such a rant....oh thats Le Carres' real name. Seems his pen name is now a nom de guerre.
A junta? what like Noreiga? I see his "protest" of the panama invasion earned him some quid. (Tailor of Panama)
I like his books, i don't like his equating the present to something worse then McCarthyism or Vietnam.
interesting, Richard Cohen of the Washington Post called this essay "The intellectual collapse of the anti-war movement"
also interesting is Harold Pinters little role in "Tailor of Panama" (he played 'Uncle Benny') and Harold, in 2001, joined the International Committee to defend Milosevic.
boy, what a worthy cause that is.
what gets me is how a spook can want Saddam out, yet...Maybe he has an idea to get rid of saddam....i hear saddam is something of a novelist, perhaps they could co-author something.
what the F%$# is this sick dichotomy going around..."well North Korea tortures, Iran suppress', this person does that...why not go after them?
That is a child like mentality....
"well...little billy tortured his cat, why not punish him..."
posted by clavdivs at 8:06 AM on March 21, 2003
A junta? what like Noreiga? I see his "protest" of the panama invasion earned him some quid. (Tailor of Panama)
I like his books, i don't like his equating the present to something worse then McCarthyism or Vietnam.
interesting, Richard Cohen of the Washington Post called this essay "The intellectual collapse of the anti-war movement"
also interesting is Harold Pinters little role in "Tailor of Panama" (he played 'Uncle Benny') and Harold, in 2001, joined the International Committee to defend Milosevic.
boy, what a worthy cause that is.
what gets me is how a spook can want Saddam out, yet...Maybe he has an idea to get rid of saddam....i hear saddam is something of a novelist, perhaps they could co-author something.
what the F%$# is this sick dichotomy going around..."well North Korea tortures, Iran suppress', this person does that...why not go after them?
That is a child like mentality....
"well...little billy tortured his cat, why not punish him..."
posted by clavdivs at 8:06 AM on March 21, 2003
No shit? Zack de la Rocha and "DJ Shadow" have some thoughts on the war? I've been waiting to find out what they had to say
i'm glad "pardonyou?" decided to chime in, because he/she is the very voice of reason itself, way more reasonable and smarted than those silly artists.
posted by fuq at 9:07 AM on March 21, 2003
i'm glad "pardonyou?" decided to chime in, because he/she is the very voice of reason itself, way more reasonable and smarted than those silly artists.
posted by fuq at 9:07 AM on March 21, 2003
I'm sorry, Richard Cohen can have whatever opinion he wants, but there isn't such a thing as "the intellectual collapse of the anti-war movement" (it doesn't surprise me that the first name of his office is called Washington). In fact, peace doesn't even depend on its "intellectual strength". Maybe the peace movement couldn't avoid this war, but it never was so worldwide and organized like now. THIS is a fact.
posted by nandop at 12:04 PM on March 21, 2003
posted by nandop at 12:04 PM on March 21, 2003
In fact, peace doesn't even depend on its "intellectual strength".
LMAO .. your right.
posted by stbalbach at 3:44 PM on March 21, 2003
LMAO .. your right.
posted by stbalbach at 3:44 PM on March 21, 2003
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- "As long as you change the title!"
Yes, I know Le Carré gives proper credit in the acknowledgements for Tailor of Panama, I just couldn't resist.
posted by Potsy at 5:40 PM on March 20, 2003