Ptolemy would be proud
June 9, 2007 9:49 AM Subscribe
Even the Vatican now affirms that Galileo was right, even if it did take them more than three centuries to admit it. The latest General Social Survey has been released, and nearly twenty percent of Americans haven't yet gotten the clue. Is it the crazification factor at work? More commentary here, here, and here.
Now if they'd only get around to the Santa Claus question.
posted by jonmc at 9:56 AM on June 9, 2007
posted by jonmc at 9:56 AM on June 9, 2007
Santa Claus was in on 9/11, too?
posted by The Straightener at 9:58 AM on June 9, 2007
posted by The Straightener at 9:58 AM on June 9, 2007
lolxtians, et al.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 10:00 AM on June 9, 2007
posted by monju_bosatsu at 10:00 AM on June 9, 2007
The percentage of Americans who know about Edward's $400 haircut is the same as the percentage who know Iraq had no WMD.
posted by delmoi at 10:00 AM on June 9, 2007
posted by delmoi at 10:00 AM on June 9, 2007
It's interesting to see the heliocentricity question held against the results for the man-from-protoman and big bang questions; there variance from one religious coding to the next is just not there in any significant way for the heliocentricity. It's hard not to see it in that last as an areligious educational thing, then.
And if not religion, then what? Did many people answer in error, or misunderstand the question? Where does a broad-based, cross-religion mis-take on basic cosmology get its legs?
posted by cortex at 10:03 AM on June 9, 2007
And if not religion, then what? Did many people answer in error, or misunderstand the question? Where does a broad-based, cross-religion mis-take on basic cosmology get its legs?
posted by cortex at 10:03 AM on June 9, 2007
"Most people don’t know where electricity comes from..."
posted by Smart Dalek at 10:17 AM on June 9, 2007
posted by Smart Dalek at 10:17 AM on June 9, 2007
Most people don’t know where electricity comes from
Silly. Everybody knows it was invented by Benjamin Franklin.
posted by Flem Snopes at 10:19 AM on June 9, 2007
Silly. Everybody knows it was invented by Benjamin Franklin.
posted by Flem Snopes at 10:19 AM on June 9, 2007
Copernicus' grave is rolling around him.
posted by Riki tiki at 10:29 AM on June 9, 2007 [25 favorites]
posted by Riki tiki at 10:29 AM on June 9, 2007 [25 favorites]
We have a lot of questions, but not many answers. As long as someone isn't hating others or using religion to acquire worldly power, I can't see ripping them about their faith.
posted by SaintCynr at 10:38 AM on June 9, 2007
posted by SaintCynr at 10:38 AM on June 9, 2007
Technically, the Big Bang wasn't an explosion. So the quiz writer wasn't that smart, either.
posted by Citizen Premier at 10:48 AM on June 9, 2007
posted by Citizen Premier at 10:48 AM on June 9, 2007
I don't think this is really an issue of faith/superstition, and I don't really have much more confidence in those who answered correctly. People believe what they are told by authority figures. Correct opinion is still mere opinion; it is not understanding.
posted by Urban Hermit at 10:51 AM on June 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by Urban Hermit at 10:51 AM on June 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
As long as someone isn't hating others or using religion to acquire worldly power, I can't see ripping them about their faith.
I must respectfully disagree, SaintCynr. Faith in the U.S. is currently used to manipulate people to much other insidious though less obvious ends: judgment, hatred, bigotry, etc. It's my view that faith in the U.S., Christianity at least, has been profoundly corrupted. It has become about judgment, hatred, and division--rather than what Jesus actually taught, which is tolerance, compassion, and unconditional love. But those are hard to practice, and judgment and intolerance are easy.
The survey results don't much surprise me, though are no less disheartening for that. No matter the reasons for such widespread ignorance (the sun rotates around the earth?? Heliocentrism is not a theory, for goodness' sake--we've been into space and seen it happen. Didn't these people go to fourth grade science class?)
posted by LooseFilter at 11:22 AM on June 9, 2007
I must respectfully disagree, SaintCynr. Faith in the U.S. is currently used to manipulate people to much other insidious though less obvious ends: judgment, hatred, bigotry, etc. It's my view that faith in the U.S., Christianity at least, has been profoundly corrupted. It has become about judgment, hatred, and division--rather than what Jesus actually taught, which is tolerance, compassion, and unconditional love. But those are hard to practice, and judgment and intolerance are easy.
The survey results don't much surprise me, though are no less disheartening for that. No matter the reasons for such widespread ignorance (the sun rotates around the earth?? Heliocentrism is not a theory, for goodness' sake--we've been into space and seen it happen. Didn't these people go to fourth grade science class?)
posted by LooseFilter at 11:22 AM on June 9, 2007
This has nothing to do whatsoever with religion. There are not, as far as I know, any mainstream religions that have people up there every Sunday talking about the evils of heliocentrism.
The problem is simply that people don't know how to think.
"Does the sun go around the earth or does the earth go around the sun?"
People simply do not have an internal picture of what EITHER of these options means. "Sun go around the earth" sounds plausible-- that's what it looks like, ummm, right?
I bet that if you showed them a picture of the orbits of the planets, and showed a geocentric version and a heliocentric version, i bet that over 95% of people would pick the correct one.
posted by gregvr at 11:24 AM on June 9, 2007
The problem is simply that people don't know how to think.
"Does the sun go around the earth or does the earth go around the sun?"
People simply do not have an internal picture of what EITHER of these options means. "Sun go around the earth" sounds plausible-- that's what it looks like, ummm, right?
I bet that if you showed them a picture of the orbits of the planets, and showed a geocentric version and a heliocentric version, i bet that over 95% of people would pick the correct one.
posted by gregvr at 11:24 AM on June 9, 2007
Umm, error bars please? The sun-around-earth bars are all pretty close in size for the different groups, and I cannot tell from this graph whether those differences are significant or not. One of the most important lessons my statistics professor taught me about publication is if it's not significant, don't graph it, because people will interpret it anyway, and you will in effect be lying to them. Lots of people don't seem to know this rule.
posted by agentofselection at 11:27 AM on June 9, 2007
posted by agentofselection at 11:27 AM on June 9, 2007
La filosofia è scritta in questo grandissimo libro che continuamente ci sta aperto innanzi a gli occhi (io dico l'universo), ma non si può intendere se prima non s'impara a intender la lingua e conoscer i caratteri, nei quali è scritto. Egli è scritto in lingua matematica, e i caratteri son triangoli, cerchi, ed altre figure geometriche, senza i quali mezzi è impossibile a intenderne umanamente parola.
"Philosophy is written in this vast book, which continuously lies upon before our eyes (I mean the universe). But it cannot be understood unless you have first learned to understand the language and recognize the characters in which it is written. It is written in the language of mathematics, and the characters are triangles, circles, and other geometrical figures. Without such means, it is impossible for us humans to understand a word of it." -- Galileo, Il Saggiatore [1623]
posted by blucevalo at 11:27 AM on June 9, 2007 [2 favorites]
"Philosophy is written in this vast book, which continuously lies upon before our eyes (I mean the universe). But it cannot be understood unless you have first learned to understand the language and recognize the characters in which it is written. It is written in the language of mathematics, and the characters are triangles, circles, and other geometrical figures. Without such means, it is impossible for us humans to understand a word of it." -- Galileo, Il Saggiatore [1623]
posted by blucevalo at 11:27 AM on June 9, 2007 [2 favorites]
Jesus Christ, can we just castrate these people and sew their lips shut already?
posted by trondant at 11:50 AM on June 9, 2007
posted by trondant at 11:50 AM on June 9, 2007
Just curious -- any international surveys asking the same question? That might be kind of interesting to know before chalking this all up to some sort of peculiarly American ignorance
posted by Dolukhanova at 11:58 AM on June 9, 2007
posted by Dolukhanova at 11:58 AM on June 9, 2007
I think we should dig up the skeletons of those who presided against Galileo in whatever church "court" they had, then hang and burn them in effigy after parading them about the town a bit. The Church used to do that to folks all the time. Turnabout's fair play.
I haven't the faintest idea of what to do about the public at large. At least, nothing that doesn't involve large booths that say "FREE TRIP TO NEVERLAND" and have an unsettling habit of belching out a cloud of black, oily smoke three minutes after someone walks in.
posted by adipocere at 12:05 PM on June 9, 2007
I haven't the faintest idea of what to do about the public at large. At least, nothing that doesn't involve large booths that say "FREE TRIP TO NEVERLAND" and have an unsettling habit of belching out a cloud of black, oily smoke three minutes after someone walks in.
posted by adipocere at 12:05 PM on June 9, 2007
Jesus Christ, can we just castrate these people and sew their lips shut already?
You're asking him? He's either dead or biased!
posted by srboisvert at 12:09 PM on June 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
You're asking him? He's either dead or biased!
posted by srboisvert at 12:09 PM on June 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
I, for one, grew up in a hideously fundamentalist-Protestant-Christian household here in the US, and never did I hear any sermons, diatribes or invectives against heliocentrism.
Evolution, yes. Gays, Mormons, Catholics, Freemasons, Jews, Democrats, Foreigners, yes yes yes.
Heliocentrism? Never.
I'm going to go with gregvr here and say that the problem is these people are at a loss as how to approach the question. The truth is (and this has been hinted at in this thread already) most people (say, 98% - a number right out of my ass) believe that the Earth revolves around the sun because they were told so in 3rd grade or on the Discovery Channel, assuming they bother to watch it past the Deadliest Catch or whatever.
Hell, I only learned the mechanics of our (elliptical, not circular) orbit after I took Astronomy 105A in my sophomore year. Even then the equations were hard for me to digest without a background in physics.
Not only that, but most people would be at a loss to explain exactly how you could prove the Earth orbits the sun with just a pair of binoculars, a notebook, a calendar and a stopwatch. Even though anybody could do that, and also be able to see that the speed of light is finite at the same time!
So: more fundamental science education instead of rote memorization of facts and figures. It probably won't solve the whole problem but it'll be a start.
posted by Avenger at 12:14 PM on June 9, 2007
Evolution, yes. Gays, Mormons, Catholics, Freemasons, Jews, Democrats, Foreigners, yes yes yes.
Heliocentrism? Never.
I'm going to go with gregvr here and say that the problem is these people are at a loss as how to approach the question. The truth is (and this has been hinted at in this thread already) most people (say, 98% - a number right out of my ass) believe that the Earth revolves around the sun because they were told so in 3rd grade or on the Discovery Channel, assuming they bother to watch it past the Deadliest Catch or whatever.
Hell, I only learned the mechanics of our (elliptical, not circular) orbit after I took Astronomy 105A in my sophomore year. Even then the equations were hard for me to digest without a background in physics.
Not only that, but most people would be at a loss to explain exactly how you could prove the Earth orbits the sun with just a pair of binoculars, a notebook, a calendar and a stopwatch. Even though anybody could do that, and also be able to see that the speed of light is finite at the same time!
So: more fundamental science education instead of rote memorization of facts and figures. It probably won't solve the whole problem but it'll be a start.
posted by Avenger at 12:14 PM on June 9, 2007
It's called 'subjective reality' people. Live with it. We don't all see reality the same way. There is no such thing as objective reality. Or rather, there IS one objective cold harsh reality, but we can't perceive it.
As human beings we are sensing reality through sensory perceptors which are, in and of themselves, not objectively accurate by any stretch of the imagination. We can't even hear what dogs can hear. We can't see what some birds can see. Is our perception of reality superior to that of the common housefly? They got like, twelve hundred billion eyeballs or something like dat.
Scientists cannot even emphatically agree on what makes gravity work. You ask everyone to agree on the sun/earth thing? You're the ones that are crazy. Add to your senses the fact they're being managed and operated by a crazy person!
So far as I'm concerned, Disneyland is a myth. I heard about it. Read about it. People have offered me eyewitness testimony and I even seen pictures. Don't mean it's real. All that coulda been fabricated. Some elaborate scheme to make me believe in a farty fairy tale world where for large sums of money you can go around and throw up on various contraptions and even meet sweaty people in outfits dressed to look like Mickey. Sounds far fetched to me. Quite an elaborate ruse.
Here's a poser. How do you know that what you presume to be green and what I presume to be green actually look the same? Do someone who's got red/green colorblindness, they honestly can't tell the difference between red and green. Maybe there's a medical condition that makes my color spectrum all backwards, but from birth I've presumed red to be what it is and blue to be what it is, so if what I see to be red is what you perceive as blue, I'd still call it red and so would you, even if what I was seeing was really what you'd call blue. If you could see through my eyes.
Maybe Paris Hilton really is poor, and no one in reality can see it. We all perceive her to be shallow and heartless and spoiled, but maybe she's really deeply inquisitive and wholesome. Our perception of her could be completely wrong. ...I doubt it, but it's possible!
Me and The Flat Earth Society.. We'll leave a light on for ya, when you wanna come back in from out there in the cold, harsh, boring objective reality.. or rather, your subjective perception of the same.
posted by ZachsMind at 12:21 PM on June 9, 2007 [2 favorites]
As human beings we are sensing reality through sensory perceptors which are, in and of themselves, not objectively accurate by any stretch of the imagination. We can't even hear what dogs can hear. We can't see what some birds can see. Is our perception of reality superior to that of the common housefly? They got like, twelve hundred billion eyeballs or something like dat.
Scientists cannot even emphatically agree on what makes gravity work. You ask everyone to agree on the sun/earth thing? You're the ones that are crazy. Add to your senses the fact they're being managed and operated by a crazy person!
So far as I'm concerned, Disneyland is a myth. I heard about it. Read about it. People have offered me eyewitness testimony and I even seen pictures. Don't mean it's real. All that coulda been fabricated. Some elaborate scheme to make me believe in a farty fairy tale world where for large sums of money you can go around and throw up on various contraptions and even meet sweaty people in outfits dressed to look like Mickey. Sounds far fetched to me. Quite an elaborate ruse.
Here's a poser. How do you know that what you presume to be green and what I presume to be green actually look the same? Do someone who's got red/green colorblindness, they honestly can't tell the difference between red and green. Maybe there's a medical condition that makes my color spectrum all backwards, but from birth I've presumed red to be what it is and blue to be what it is, so if what I see to be red is what you perceive as blue, I'd still call it red and so would you, even if what I was seeing was really what you'd call blue. If you could see through my eyes.
Maybe Paris Hilton really is poor, and no one in reality can see it. We all perceive her to be shallow and heartless and spoiled, but maybe she's really deeply inquisitive and wholesome. Our perception of her could be completely wrong. ...I doubt it, but it's possible!
Me and The Flat Earth Society.. We'll leave a light on for ya, when you wanna come back in from out there in the cold, harsh, boring objective reality.. or rather, your subjective perception of the same.
posted by ZachsMind at 12:21 PM on June 9, 2007 [2 favorites]
>>Faith in the U.S. is currently used to manipulate people to much other insidious though less obvious ends
I consider it to be in the realm of "acquiring worldly power". Maybe a semantic difference. I do recognize that a great deal of harm is done in the name of faith, and I don't support that.
All I'm really espousing is that I used to be very ignorant and now that I've learned more, I know I'm still ignorant, just less so than I used to be. In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man may be king, but solely by comparison to others who see less, not empirically.
posted by SaintCynr at 12:30 PM on June 9, 2007
I consider it to be in the realm of "acquiring worldly power". Maybe a semantic difference. I do recognize that a great deal of harm is done in the name of faith, and I don't support that.
All I'm really espousing is that I used to be very ignorant and now that I've learned more, I know I'm still ignorant, just less so than I used to be. In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man may be king, but solely by comparison to others who see less, not empirically.
posted by SaintCynr at 12:30 PM on June 9, 2007
"Does the sun go around the earth or does the earth go around the sun?"
Were they to ask me this question, I'd probably say something like "Well, neither one seems entirely satisfactory. As far as I know they both revolve around the centre of mass of the sun-earth system. I'm not sure whether that's inside the surface of the sun, does that make a difference for purposes of your question?" And thus with any luck they'd stop asking me such silly questions and move on to someone else.
posted by sfenders at 1:09 PM on June 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
Were they to ask me this question, I'd probably say something like "Well, neither one seems entirely satisfactory. As far as I know they both revolve around the centre of mass of the sun-earth system. I'm not sure whether that's inside the surface of the sun, does that make a difference for purposes of your question?" And thus with any luck they'd stop asking me such silly questions and move on to someone else.
posted by sfenders at 1:09 PM on June 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
The mention of Galileoand the religious discussion are appropriate.
I agree that the 20% of people who think the sun goes around the earth do so for religious reasons--it is just what they see and they are ignorant.
But, people do believe in creationism for religious reasons. Yet the Catholic church excommunicated Galileo for those same religious reasons--the Bible mentions the Sun going around the Earth.
This is the part I wish a creationist would explain to me. If you are so convinced that any fact mentioned in the Bible is absolute truth, then why don't you believe that the Sun goes around the Earth? You say it is a matter of faith, so where is your faith when it comes to the sun?
posted by eye of newt at 1:11 PM on June 9, 2007
I agree that the 20% of people who think the sun goes around the earth do so for religious reasons--it is just what they see and they are ignorant.
But, people do believe in creationism for religious reasons. Yet the Catholic church excommunicated Galileo for those same religious reasons--the Bible mentions the Sun going around the Earth.
This is the part I wish a creationist would explain to me. If you are so convinced that any fact mentioned in the Bible is absolute truth, then why don't you believe that the Sun goes around the Earth? You say it is a matter of faith, so where is your faith when it comes to the sun?
posted by eye of newt at 1:11 PM on June 9, 2007
(I agree that they don't do so for religious reasons)
posted by eye of newt at 1:13 PM on June 9, 2007
posted by eye of newt at 1:13 PM on June 9, 2007
Riki tiki: you win!
posted by zoogleplex at 1:53 PM on June 9, 2007
posted by zoogleplex at 1:53 PM on June 9, 2007
Wow.
I've known for decades that my fellow 'murcans were, on average, a bunch of ignorami, especially on science-related matters, but, really: heliocentrism? I'm surprised that I'm surprised.
I guess PBS needs to start running Cosmos again or something -- oh, wait, I forgot; sadly, the sorts of people who are this ignorant generally wouldn't touch PBS with a ten-foot pole; they're all watching 24 and American Idol. (Vladimir Zworykin's probably spinning too.)
Googling around, I see a lot of links to discussions of the General Social Survey -- analysis, code books, discussions of the results' significance, etc., but I haven't found anything pointing to the GSS itself -- the actual survey questions. Did I miss a link somewhere?
posted by pax digita at 3:38 PM on June 9, 2007
I've known for decades that my fellow 'murcans were, on average, a bunch of ignorami, especially on science-related matters, but, really: heliocentrism? I'm surprised that I'm surprised.
I guess PBS needs to start running Cosmos again or something -- oh, wait, I forgot; sadly, the sorts of people who are this ignorant generally wouldn't touch PBS with a ten-foot pole; they're all watching 24 and American Idol. (Vladimir Zworykin's probably spinning too.)
Googling around, I see a lot of links to discussions of the General Social Survey -- analysis, code books, discussions of the results' significance, etc., but I haven't found anything pointing to the GSS itself -- the actual survey questions. Did I miss a link somewhere?
posted by pax digita at 3:38 PM on June 9, 2007
Larry Hagman is the center of the universe. Case closed.
posted by ZachsMind at 4:34 PM on June 9, 2007
posted by ZachsMind at 4:34 PM on June 9, 2007
Other potential survey questions to show up the depth of ignorance common among people of the earth:
What phase is the moon in right now?
What time of year is the earth closest to the sun?
When it's high tide here, what part of the world has low tide?
What are guanine and cytosine best known for?
Where does gasoline come from?
How deep is the atmosphere?
But anyway. Ignorance isn't the problem. The problem is the unwillingness to answer "I don't know" plus the fallacious beliefs. It'd be useful if the survey attempted to separate these somehow, like by asking "how certain are you of that?"
posted by sfenders at 4:53 PM on June 9, 2007
What phase is the moon in right now?
What time of year is the earth closest to the sun?
When it's high tide here, what part of the world has low tide?
What are guanine and cytosine best known for?
Where does gasoline come from?
How deep is the atmosphere?
But anyway. Ignorance isn't the problem. The problem is the unwillingness to answer "I don't know" plus the fallacious beliefs. It'd be useful if the survey attempted to separate these somehow, like by asking "how certain are you of that?"
posted by sfenders at 4:53 PM on June 9, 2007
Note that about 1/5 of the population has an IQ under 80.
(The subject is taboo, non-PC, disputatious ... but I feel sure most of us would prefer 130 to 70.)
Combine that with Larry Kohlberg's research indicating that a substantial majority of the population never achieves abstract reasoning (remaining at the concrete reasoning stage). Some people are bound not to understand some things.
posted by Twang at 5:55 PM on June 9, 2007 [3 favorites]
(The subject is taboo, non-PC, disputatious ... but I feel sure most of us would prefer 130 to 70.)
Combine that with Larry Kohlberg's research indicating that a substantial majority of the population never achieves abstract reasoning (remaining at the concrete reasoning stage). Some people are bound not to understand some things.
posted by Twang at 5:55 PM on June 9, 2007 [3 favorites]
It truly is amazing that humanity has gotten so far when so many people are so stupid.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:08 PM on June 9, 2007
posted by five fresh fish at 6:08 PM on June 9, 2007
I haven't the faintest idea of what to do about the public at large. At least, nothing that doesn't involve large booths that say "FREE TRIP TO NEVERLAND" and have an unsettling habit of belching out a cloud of black, oily smoke three minutes after someone walks in.
I heart this idea.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:10 PM on June 9, 2007
I heart this idea.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:10 PM on June 9, 2007
Sorry, in my earlier comment, the concrete/abstract measure may have belonged to Piaget, not Kohlberg (most famous for *moral* reasoning). (Been too long since those Ed. Psych books.)
posted by Twang at 6:14 PM on June 9, 2007
posted by Twang at 6:14 PM on June 9, 2007
"Most people don’t know where electricity comes from"
Muddy Waters invented electricity.
(some cultural elements here too)
posted by Smedleyman at 10:47 PM on June 9, 2007
Muddy Waters invented electricity.
(some cultural elements here too)
posted by Smedleyman at 10:47 PM on June 9, 2007
This makes me ill, whether or not it has anything to do with religion.
On another note, I remember referring to our Sun as a star once as a child, and another kid trying to "correct" me on the subject because his father insisted that the Sun was in some kind of special class. I'm pretty sure he was fundamentalist and not a sun worshipper.
posted by BrotherCaine at 12:56 AM on June 10, 2007
On another note, I remember referring to our Sun as a star once as a child, and another kid trying to "correct" me on the subject because his father insisted that the Sun was in some kind of special class. I'm pretty sure he was fundamentalist and not a sun worshipper.
posted by BrotherCaine at 12:56 AM on June 10, 2007
What phase is the moon in right now?
Puberty.
What time of year is the earth closest to the sun?
The winter. Cuz in the summer, the sun can't stand looking at all those human beings in skimpy outfits on the beaches, so it pulls away in disgust.
When it's high tide here, what part of the world has low tide?
The part of the world where laundry is most rampant. ...Pittsburgh I think.
What are guanine and cytosine best known for?
Rap music.
Where does gasoline come from?
The pump
How deep is the atmosphere?
Cylinders are deep. Spheres are round. The question is therefore incorrect. You should be asking for the radius of the atmosphere, minus the distance between the center of the planet Earth and its surface. I believe the answer to that question would then be Elvis Presley. He liked pi.
posted by ZachsMind at 2:40 PM on June 10, 2007 [1 favorite]
Puberty.
What time of year is the earth closest to the sun?
The winter. Cuz in the summer, the sun can't stand looking at all those human beings in skimpy outfits on the beaches, so it pulls away in disgust.
When it's high tide here, what part of the world has low tide?
The part of the world where laundry is most rampant. ...Pittsburgh I think.
What are guanine and cytosine best known for?
Rap music.
Where does gasoline come from?
The pump
How deep is the atmosphere?
Cylinders are deep. Spheres are round. The question is therefore incorrect. You should be asking for the radius of the atmosphere, minus the distance between the center of the planet Earth and its surface. I believe the answer to that question would then be Elvis Presley. He liked pi.
posted by ZachsMind at 2:40 PM on June 10, 2007 [1 favorite]
The oceans are not deep, Zach?
posted by five fresh fish at 3:54 PM on June 10, 2007
posted by five fresh fish at 3:54 PM on June 10, 2007
What I don't get about fundies and the age of the universe is the speed of light. If you look at the stars, you're looking at objects that in some cases are a million years old already. The incontrovertable proof of the age of the universe is right there in front of your eyes. Or do they think the speed of light is bullshit too?
posted by dydecker at 4:01 PM on June 10, 2007
posted by dydecker at 4:01 PM on June 10, 2007
Dydecker, they think that the Creator, in addition to snapping His fingers and all our local stuff happening, also put all those light beams in place, on their way, to test us.
No, really.
posted by notsnot at 4:18 PM on June 10, 2007
No, really.
posted by notsnot at 4:18 PM on June 10, 2007
They don't think.
They insist that there is a watchmaker. Science is figuring out how the watch ticks.
What's stupid is that they can't differentiate between the two. What's really fucking stupid is that they insist the nth translation of a ancient pre-science handwritten text of an even more ancient oral history of a fraction of the human population is correct in all cases where that history and science might be seen to disagree.
I can't begin to understand why we tolerate such idiocy. It sure doesn't seem to help us.
posted by five fresh fish at 5:09 PM on June 10, 2007
They insist that there is a watchmaker. Science is figuring out how the watch ticks.
What's stupid is that they can't differentiate between the two. What's really fucking stupid is that they insist the nth translation of a ancient pre-science handwritten text of an even more ancient oral history of a fraction of the human population is correct in all cases where that history and science might be seen to disagree.
I can't begin to understand why we tolerate such idiocy. It sure doesn't seem to help us.
posted by five fresh fish at 5:09 PM on June 10, 2007
What time of year is the earth closest to the sun?
January, actually. So for the northern hemisphere ZachsMind is right, winter.
posted by atrazine at 5:53 AM on June 11, 2007
January, actually. So for the northern hemisphere ZachsMind is right, winter.
posted by atrazine at 5:53 AM on June 11, 2007
Dydecker, God created light already on the way to Earth 6,000 years ago of course, duh. *rolls eyes*
posted by BrotherCaine at 5:50 PM on June 11, 2007
posted by BrotherCaine at 5:50 PM on June 11, 2007
Remember kids, not only do you have to be good to get into heaven, but willfully ignorant of the progress of man, too!
posted by tehloki at 7:24 PM on June 11, 2007
posted by tehloki at 7:24 PM on June 11, 2007
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